# Comics  > Image Comics >  Kill or Be Killed Discussion/Spoilers

## cc008

I recently bought the first several issues of Brubaker's _Kill or Be Killed_ and read the first issue yesterday. Loved it. The Punisher has always been one of my favorite Marvel characters, so initially, that was the biggest sell for me... a vigilante of sorts taking out bad people. After finishing the issue it's apparent that this series is a lot more than that. I'm really glad to read that it was decided this would be an ongoing rather than a maxi series or limited series. 

Seeing as how it constantly dominates voting in our weekly Image Comics threads, I figured it deserves its own central discussion thread. I've only read the first issue so far, but spoilers are welcome for discussion here, as I plan to be caught up by the end of the weekend anyway.

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## FluffySheep

It's probably my favourite ongoing that I'm reading now. I love Phillips' art and I've loved everything I've read from Brubaker (granted, that isn't much so far). Every month or so I look at what comics I'm pulling and most of them I think "shall I drop this?", "would I miss reading it if I did?" etc. but Kill or Be Killed is one comic that I definitely will not drop.

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## cc008

Just finished issue 6.. I'll probably be caught up by tonight. Absolutely loving it.

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## FluffySheep

I picked up issue #8 today but I've not read it yet. Love the cover for it!

What do you think of the demon? Real? Or all in Dylan's head?

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## cc008

I could go either way honestly. The demon being real opens up a lot of supernatural stories Brubaker could tell. The demon being in his head makes Dylan even more complex of a character.  The supernatural aspect is kind of attractive, but right now I'd say it's all in his head.

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## ed2962

> I picked up issue #8 today but I've not read it yet. Love the cover for it!
> 
> What do you think of the demon? Real? Or all in Dylan's head?


I hope the demon is a product of Dylan's mental illness. I will be disappointed if the demon is real.

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## DIVINITY

Just picked up the first two issues. I'm loving it, as expected with everything this creative team touches... 

I'm also hoping the demon is a part of his fractured mental state, but either way I'm sure Brubaker will make it compelling...

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## FluffySheep

Anyone read issue #8? I've just finished reading it. It didn't feel like a great deal happened in this issue, but that last panel should set up an interesting issue #9.

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## ed2962

> Anyone read issue #8? I've just finished reading it. It didn't feel like a great deal happened in this issue, but that last panel should set up an interesting issue #9.


I liked it. I like the interesting moral dilemma of Dylan picking a target that wasn't the I guess easy to hate "stereotypical" evil doer.

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## FluffySheep

> I liked it. I like the interesting moral dilemma of Dylan picking a target that wasn't the I guess easy to hate "stereotypical" evil doer.


It does make you think where the story will go. He seems to be getting more desperate and making more mistakes, although I imagine in the next issue...

*spoilers:*
he'll kill one or more of the Russian mob, or his dealer, to appease the demon, seeing as they're all "bad people".
*end of spoilers*

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## cc008

Loved the cliffhanger at the end of the issue. I know it's his own creation, but Brubaker's voice for Dylan is really good. He's so convincing when he talks to the reader.

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## matt levin

I'm in agreement with those hoping the demon in all in Dylan's head, but having read previous Brubaker works, I kinda expect it's not.  But I am indeed enjoying this title.

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## FluffySheep

I finally got round to reading issue #9 last night. Thoroughly enjoyed it. I did feel a bit bad for Rex though.

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## cc008

> I finally got round to reading issue #9 last night. Thoroughly enjoyed it. I did feel a bit bad for Rex though.


I thought it was incredible. Best issue yet. 

But yeah, feel terrible for Rex.

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## FluffySheep

> I thought it was incredible. Best issue yet. 
> 
> But yeah, feel terrible for Rex.


The tension I felt during the scene in and around the van was brilliant. Then a bit of a sucker punch at the end when you find out Rex didn't make it really got to me. Like you say, brilliant issue!

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## cc008

The conclusion to the latest issue was a real "oh sh!t" moment.. which is pretty close to what Dylan's last words of the issue were too lol

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## FluffySheep

I finally got round to reading issue #10 last night. As I was reading it, I started to think that the demon really is all in Dylan's head, and then I saw that final page and now I'm unsure again lol. Another good issue. Glad to see more Kira  :Smile:

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## cc008

That feeling of uncertainty makes the book that much better

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## Joker

I really hope they never tell us if it's real or not.

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## matt levin

I'm with Joker ^  and CC008:  keep it vague, keep it mysteriousssssssssss.  Keep it
off-balance.

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## Project37

Love this series - so dark and compelling, even though it offers little to no glimmers of hope. It's very much in the style of Mr. Robot - not in a bad way (and I know that any similarities are coincidental). I never really got into Fatale, but The Fade Out/Velvet/Kill Or Be Killed have been back-to-back favorites for me.

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## cc008

The latest issue messed with me in the sense that... we kept being told the demon was one way, and yet I still couldn't tell if that was the truth or not.

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## FluffySheep

I've only just got round to reading issue #12. The very end put a smile on my face. I like Kira being in the book more, but I can't help but feel something bad will happen to her at some point. The uncertainty about everything that this book brings is brilliant!

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## etrumble

Great series.

Anyone who likes Brubaker should be reading this.

Amazon has the first trade paperback(with the first 4 issues) on sale for $5.92, barely more than a single floppy.  Go get it now!

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## batnbreakfast

Brubaker's take on the Shadow is epic! I hope to make it into the letters column of that book. That would be incredible. Also hopefully Ed pulls a Scarface/Ventriloquist and never tells his readers if the Demon is real or not.

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## Ying Ko

This book is probably Bru's best work since becoming Image exclusive. Great run with 0 filler.

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## cc008

> This book is probably Bru's best work since becoming Image exclusive. Great run with 0 filler.


Even more impressive since it's his first ongoing title.

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## batnbreakfast

There's always that sense of desperation in Brubaker's work that makes me happy and sad at the same time. Very Film Noir?

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## Kirby101

Issue #14 was outstanding all aound. Phillips continues to shine.
Dylan is getting pretty formidable
I wonder if we will ever know if the demon is real, or is Brubaker going all "Inception" on us?

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## Hilden B. Lade

A "Kill or Be Killed" movie is in development:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...killed-1066847



> Director Chad Stahelski is teaming up with his John Wick producer Basil Iwanyk to bring to the big screen Kill or Be Killed, a comic book from Winter Soldier creator Ed Brubaker.
> 
> Dan Casey, who previously adapted the Brubaker comic Incognito, now set up at Columbia, is attached to write the script. 
> 
> Iwanyk will produce with Erica Lee of the duo's Thunder Road, the company behind awards contender Wind River as well as the Wick action movies. Jeff Waxman (mother!) is also producing.

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## Ying Ko

Interesting that they are making a movie out of this so soon, seeing how there is very little source material at this point, we are only at issue 14. 

Will go see it regardless. The book itself continues to be outstanding.

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## matt levin

Ying Ko, I was just thinking the same thing (re:  little source material).
& the book itself, oh yeah, continues to be outstanding, indeed.

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## cc008

> A "Kill or Be Killed" movie is in development:
> 
> https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...killed-1066847


NICE! That's great news. Congrats to Brubaker and Phillips

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## seismic-2

> I wonder if we will ever know if the demon is real, or is Brubaker going all "Inception" on us?


If Dylan, his brother, and his father all saw it, I would say both brothers inherited the mental illness from Dad.  But Dylan and the brother he never knew were just _half_-brothers.  You would think that would decrease the odds that both of them would have inherited their Dad's affliction, so it increases the odds that it's a real demon.  But maybe it will remain ambiguous until (and after?) the story ends?

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## Kirby101

> If Dylan, his brother, and his father all saw it, I would say both brothers inherited the mental illness from Dad.  But Dylan and the brother he never knew were just _half_-brothers.  You would think that would decrease the odds that both of them would have inherited their Dad's affliction, so it increases the odds that it's a real demon.  But maybe it will remain ambiguous until (and after?) the story ends?


Except they both could have gotten the image of the demon from Dad's art. Even if they didn't recall seeing it.

I wonder if they will have to resolve this for the potential movie.

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## Kirby101

The new issue sure shook things up. More questions about the demon and Dylan's sanity. With a nice twist at the end.
Great news about a movie from the John Wick Director. I wonder if they will have to reveal if the demon is real or not in the movie.
Leaving it ambiguous, as it is in the book would be a bold move for a movie. I think movie audiences want more clarity in general.

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## cc008

I really liked #15. Possibly my favorite issue so far. A handful of more twists and even a couple of lines that made me laugh. 

I thought it was really awesome that Brubaker opened up about the movie adaptation in the back matter. Not many people want to talk about those things so openly for whatever reason.

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## Bloodbones

Just finished issue 15 and wow. This series is just phenomenal. I'm a fan of Brubaker (even though I didn't read everything he did yet) but so far it's probably the best book i've read this year. The end of this issue is really interesting and can't wait to see where it goes.

I was trade waiting this book but when I got to the end of the 3rd volume, I decided to buy issue #15 and put this title on my pull list. Because I can't wait anymore and want to encourage Brubaker and Phillips as much as I can. Will continue buying the trades and if they ever put out a hardcover (which there's no doubt imo), I will buy them too.

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## Old Man Ollie 1962

One of the best series I've read in a while. Would make one hell of a Netflix show--done right.

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## Nick Miller

It’s looking to me like Bru and company are going to show a society crumbling.

From what started out as a lone vigilante, we may see the breakdown of law, as this demon’s influence increases and perhaps “OTHER” demons start to assert themselves too. 

In his notes in the back he said things are going to get bigger.

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## Bloodbones

> One of the best series I've read in a while. Would make one hell of a Netflix show--done right.


For sure! But personnaly i'd prefer a movie. Done right it could be amazing.

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## cc008

> It’s looking to me like Bru and company are going to show a society crumbling.
> 
> From what started out as a lone vigilante, we may see the breakdown of law, as this demon’s influence increases and perhaps “OTHER” demons start to assert themselves too. 
> 
> In his notes in the back he said things are going to get bigger.


A whole legion of demons and vigilantes would be insane.

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## FluffySheep

I've been a bit behind with my monthlies reading lately, so I reread #13 and I've read #14 and #15 over the past couple of days. I love this series so much. That final page of #14 when Kira turns to Dylan with the head of the demon is the stuff of nightmares! The last couple of pages of #15 gave me 2 "OMG" moments too. Could there be multiple demons? Or one demon with multiple vigilantes working for them? Did the demon just pick another person to use for the killings after Dylan was sectioned? I love everything about this book.

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## cc008

Every issue just always seems to be firing on all cylinders. Should be coming up on a first OHC collection hopefully too.

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## FluffySheep

> Every issue just always seems to be firing on all cylinders. Should be coming up on a first OHC collection hopefully too.


Fingers crossed it'll be this year at some point. I very rarely double dip on any series but I definitely will be with this one.

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## cc008

> Fingers crossed it'll be this year at some point. I very rarely double dip on any series but I definitely will be with this one.


I do only for my few favorites... so I'll buy for Descender, East of West, Southern Bastards, and then most likely this. Everything else, if I'm reading, will only be in single issues. Gotta draw the line somewhere lol

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## Bloodbones

> I do only for my few favorites... so I'll buy for Descender, East of West, Southern Bastards, and then most likely this. Everything else, if I'm reading, will only be in single issues. Gotta draw the line somewhere lol


Was only buying trades of KOBK before but since I finished the 3rd one, I decided to buy the singles. Will probably continue to buy the trades and when and if a OHC is released, will buy them too. Might sell the trades after though.

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## cc008

> Was only buying trades of KOBK before but since I finished the 3rd one, I decided to buy the singles. Will probably continue to buy the trades and when and if a OHC is released, will buy them too. Might sell the trades after though.


May be getting a bit off topic, but where do you sell your trades? Been looking to unload a LOT and make some cash back.

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## Bloodbones

> May be getting a bit off topic, but where do you sell your trades? Been looking to unload a LOT and make some cash back.


Didn't sell any trades yet lol. Might sell them on facebook groups or kijiji or something.

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## FluffySheep

> May be getting a bit off topic, but where do you sell your trades? Been looking to unload a LOT and make some cash back.


I use ebay to sell trades. I've sold my Saga trades and Deadly Class trades with no problems. Sold them within a few days.

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## DavidRA

I've used Amazon to sell them in the past. Mostly the books sold quickly.

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## seismic-2

That ending surely opened up a whole can of worms, didn't it?  There are a number of ways that things could go from here, depending on what the cops believe.

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## cc008

> I've used Amazon to sell them in the past. Mostly the books sold quickly.


Thanks!




> That ending surely opened up a whole can of worms, didn't it?  There are a number of ways that things could go from here, depending on what the cops believe.


Yes. It. Did. This book...

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## matt levin

Did I miss something?  Or is it just implied that the orderly 'was taken care of'?   That Dylan was released would suggest the orderly lives on...

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## FluffySheep

Has everyone seen the Image solicitations for June? I'll spoiler this just in case...

*spoilers:*
KILL OR BE KILLED #20
STORY: ED BRUBAKER
ART: SEAN PHILLIPS, ELIZABETH BREITWEISER
COVER: SEAN PHILLIPS
JUNE 27 / 40 PAGES / FC / M / $3.99

The grand finale to KILL OR BE KILLED! Will Dylan find a way to live his secret life as a vigilante, or will he throw away the mask? And was there ever really a demon, or is he just crazy? And will he (or any of us) get out alive? All the answers are here!
*end of spoilers*

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## cc008

You know.. I had a feeling that's what it was when I saw your post. But I'm still pretty shocked.

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## FluffySheep

> You know.. I had a feeling that's what it was when I saw your post. But I'm still pretty shocked.


Me too. I'm really disappointed.

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## cc008

> Me too. I'm really disappointed.


Very. Didn't expect that for quite some time because of how Brubaker spoke about it.

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## numberthirty

Yep.

Didn't see that coming at all.

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## DIVINITY

In the back matter, Brubaker mentioned that he already knew the ending, and that it wasnt far off. Im not that surprised, none of their creator owned books have hit 30 issues....

Criminal 26 + 2 One Shots
Fade Out 12
Fatale 24 
Incognito 11
Kill or Be Killed 20*

*Thats if it ends at 20, that solicit is kind of vague, like it might be one more...

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## cc008

Sounds pretty final to me. The reason I'm most surprised is because Brubaker had mentioned that he was enjoying writing this because it was an ongoing and different from his other books. Maybe he just meant that it was coming out monthly. Because to his credit, there were no months off.

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## FluffySheep

I know all things have to end eventually but I'm disappointed mainly because I feel there is still a lot of story left to tell and explore. A few more issues doesn't feel like enough to wrap things up. Unless of course, Brubaker doesn't intend to wrap it up and give us the answers we'd like and instead, leave the ending ambiguous.

(Side note - I tweeted Sean Phillips about the cover for #20 asking if it was a homage to Amazing Spider-man #50, and he liked it. Quite pleased with that lol.)

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## Joker

Yeah, I guess when he talked about it as a "monthly" and "ongoing" book, I thought it would run a bit longer, but this is pretty typical length for their books. 

I'm sure they'll stick the landing. They usually do. 

And, I'm always excited to see what they'll do next. I wouldn't mind more Criminal. Another Magazine style one shot would be great!

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## cc008

I hope it's not ending because they want to start on the movie and need a definitive ending to finish the script or something like that. I doubt it's the case, but still. Would stink if it is.

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## Joker

Brubaker as said he already knew the ending, so that's not the reason. A movie would never be able to fully adapt the book as is, so they wouldn't need to truncate it for either reason.

EDIT: WOuld you guys feel differently about this ending if it had been billed as the final arc at the start, instead of half way through said arc?

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## seismic-2

Even if this had always been billed as the final arc, the ending of the previous issue opens up so much potential drama that I would have expected 3 or 4 more issues would be needed to explore it satisfactorily.  I realize that sometimes things do in fact end suddenly in "real life", but based on the previous arcs, I wouldn't think this would be one of those things.

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## DIVINITY

Another banger, this is definitely my favorite since Criminal. Its the narrative, the way in which the story is being told, the suspense, that cliffhanger ending. Whats not to love....

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## cc008

Maybe they've got something else coming down the pike?

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## FluffySheep

> Maybe they've got something else coming down the pike?


This was in the blog from 3rd March...

_Mentioning that the team starts a new project every year or two, Brubaker confirmed that KOBK "does have an ending coming up," and he wrote that -- "right now" -- the team is working on an even shorter project, a "novella OGN" (original graphic novel) to be released later this year._

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## cc008

Well there ya have it

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## Ying Ko

Disappointing. Seems like all my favorite books are ending recently...

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## Kaled

I know he is working on Fade Out 2 because in the last newsletter he showed a picture of the books he was reading as research for FO2.

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## Bloodbones

Apparently i'm late but just learned it's ending at #20. So just 3 issues left. It was my favorite series by far and it's sad to see it end. I wasn't expecting that since I think he said in the past that it would be his longest series to date.

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## ed2962

At best I think it could have gone on for perhaps one more arc, but I'm not too sad that it's ending at #20. That's a decent length for the type of story it is.

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## DIVINITY

Oh sh!t, was my response as I read the last page of the current issue released today. This book has been amazing from the start, everything is coming full circle, Dylan has a lot on his plate, this can’t end well...

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## soundsci

> Oh sh!t, was my response as I read the last page of the current issue released today. This book has been amazing from the start, everything is coming full circle, Dylan has a lot on his plate, this can’t end well...


The way things started to pile up this issue, it now does start to feel as if the series could come to an end. However, it's interesting in the backmatter that Brubaker mentions they may come back to the series someday, despite ending at 20 for now. Also, iirc he said issue 20 should include info on what the group have planned next - both the graphic novel and an ongoing series.

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## Kirby101

I agree about how good this series has been. More than anything Bru has done, it is so filmable (which I am sure Bru and Sean are aware of).
A question, in the back Bru mentions how there have been meta references through out this series, but this issue the Easter Eggs were obvious. Not to me, anybody know to what he referred?

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## Joker

Buck Thompson was clearly Flash Thompson from Spider-Man comics. The school hall panel is right out of Spider-Man comics. 

Beyond that, I'm not sure. I was curious what else people picked up on.

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## Kirby101

> Buck Thompson was clearly Flash Thompson from Spider-Man comics. The school hall panel is right out of Spider-Man comics. 
> 
> Beyond that, I'm not sure. I was curious what else people picked up on.


Of course! Feel like an idiot now. I suppose there is some Punisher and Batman stuff in this series too.

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## Joker

I'm not well read on Punisher, so that'd all go right over my head.

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## Kirby101

> I'm not well read on Punisher, so that'd all go right over my head.


Neither am I, at least since the 80s. I just assume the whole vigilante thing,taking on the mob.

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## FluffySheep

I've only just got caught up with the last couple of issues. Still love this series and I'm gutted it's finishing soon. I didn't spot a single Easter egg while reading #18, so either I'm just not well read enough in comics to spot them, or Brubaker hasn't made them as obvious as he thinks he has! 

I'm assuming that Dylan can't really die at the end of this if Brubaker is saying they might return to it. If the Russian's and Lily Sharpe all get killed towards the end, could Dylan get away with it? Have we seen the last of the demon? I'm thinking we haven't.

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## cc008

Flash Thompson/Buck Thompson was the one_ real_ big Easter egg. 

I don't know how it's going to end, but 18 seemed to make things a little clearer as far as where the series was going.

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## FluffySheep

I'm picturing Dylan and the demon walking hand in hand into the sunset on the final page of #20 lol.

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## seismic-2

> I'm picturing Dylan and the demon walking hand in hand into the sunset on the final page of #20 lol.


"Dylan, I think this is the beginning of a beautiful possession."

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## FluffySheep

> "Dylan, I think this is the beginning of a beautiful possession."


It's as good as written. Don't let us down Brubaker!

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## soundsci

Found this on Amazon, it looks like the Brubaker/Phillips graphic novel coming this year is called My Heroes Have Always Been Junkies: https://www.amazon.com/Heroes-Have-A...7099772&sr=8-1

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## FluffySheep

> Found this on Amazon, it looks like the Brubaker/Phillips graphic novel coming this year is called My Heroes Have Always Been Junkies: https://www.amazon.com/Heroes-Have-A...7099772&sr=8-1


Cool! Pretty short at 72 pages though, but I'll be getting it.

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## cc008

Yup, sounds interesting.

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## matt levin

'And that's how I died.'
except that Dylan's been narrating this all along, so...
and then again, Dylan's already died (possibly?) once already at the very beginning of the story, so...
and we've already been given another story of a supernatural creature (Fatale), so...
so...maybe Dylan does die (again) and the Demon is Real! and brings him back again!  Maybe?  Or not?

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## seismic-2

Of course, one of the all-time Hollywood classics, _Sunset Boulevard_, is in fact narrated post-mortem by the murder victim, and we know how much Ed Brubaker and his co-creators admire the Hollywood classics...

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## DIVINITY

Wow! Thats it huh.. How they hell is Dylan even narrating this story...

Either way, good sh!t, looking forward to the ending...

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## matt levin

One possibility, (and it's not my favorite hope), is that the demon is real, and Dylan's been doing SUCH a good job dispatching bad-guys, the demon brings him back yet again.

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## Ying Ko

It is too bad there is only 1 more issue to go... This has been one of my favorite reads every month for a while now.

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## cc008

Well that was an interesting way to end the penultimate issue, for sure. I'm very interested in what #20 will have in store.

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## Kirby101

Just a thought. He and the detective fake his death to get him out of the shit he is in. This also allows a sequel later.

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## numberthirty

No Spoilers!!!!!!!!!!

Solid read. Would(and will) read again.

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## cc008

Yup, good ending.

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## numberthirty

Also...

I wasn't really sold on the idea of the upcoming standalone before they go back to the *The Fade Out* corner of things.

The preview completely changed my mind. While I'm still not sure, it's more promising than I thought it would be.

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## Factor

I'll really miss this series, but this was a solid ending. I don't know how I feel about a sequel, thought. I get the feeling Brubaker said he had to say about this concept. Kira's story would end up going one of the two ways we saw this issue, IMO.

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## cc008

> I'll really miss this series, but this was a solid ending. I don't know how I feel about a sequel, thought. I get the feeling Brubaker said he had to say about this concept. Kira's story would end up going one of the two ways we saw this issue, IMO.


This is a book that I'd rather not see a sequel for. I agree with you. This should stand on its own.

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## soundsci

I was anxious going into the last issue, so I'm glad they pulled off the ending (as far as I'm concerned). There was one bit that confused me, but of course now I forget what it is, so that will give me an excuse to go back and give it another read.

I also did not see the last page coming. It was a delight to be surprised like that.

*spoilers:*
It means the demon isn't just a hereditary thing.
*end of spoilers*

I do agree that I hope this remains a standalone as it works so well, but I can't deny I'd be giddy about a sequel anyways.

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## FluffySheep

I read the last 2 issues last night. I've loved this series and I'll definitely miss it. The ending made me feel sad but with a smile on my face at the same time, so that's probably a good thing!? I wouldn't mind if there was no sequel but if there was, I'd definitely be buying it. I'm looking forward to getting this whole series in deluxe format and reading through the whole thing again.

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## Ying Ko

Somehow I felt the finale was a bit lacking. This was such a great book that I guess I expected more?

Anyway, all in all it was a legendary run. Kudos to Brubaker.

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## Kirby101

Not sure how I feel about the ending. It was really well done, and had us going from one end to the other
*spoilers:*
dead, not dead, dead...Demon, no Demon, Demon
*end of spoilers*  Maybe I would have preferred the happier middle, even if in retrospect it was too perfect, to Marvel comics meta.
Guess I have to mull on it more.

So do we agree the last page means *spoilers:*
the Demon is real?
*end of spoilers*

This was some of Bru's bet writing and Phillips just keeps getting better.

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## ed2962

> Not sure how I feel about the ending. It was really well done, and had us going from one end to the other
> *spoilers:*
> dead, not dead, dead...Demon, no Demon, Demon
> *end of spoilers*  Maybe I would have preferred the happier middle, even if in retrospect it was too perfect, to Marvel comics meta.
> Guess I have to mull on it more.
> 
> So do we agree the last page means *spoilers:*
> the Demon is real?
> *end of spoilers*
> ...


I think Brubaker was leaving it open. You could take the last page as being literal or symbolic and the story works either way.

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## Jinjonator

Yeah, I think the question of whether or not the demon is "real" is beside the point. It's just symbolic of their desire to single-handedly fix the world. 

Overall, good series. It's kinda seeped in that particular brand of "everything is awful, and trying to fix things is naive and bad" cynicism/strawmanning that I generally find boring (and a bit immature-masquerading-as-wise), but Brubaker is a fantastic writer, which helps to overlook the philosophical divide. Consequently though, because of how blatant he was about the protagonist's mission being stupid and misguided (and literally delusional, because subtlety!), the ending was predictable pretty much from the start, and the fake-out really didn't work at all (did nobody else find it immediately obvious?).

But yeah. I sound like I'm ragging on it hard, but I did really enjoy it, bleak and defeatist as it is.

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## numberthirty

> I think Brubaker was leaving it open. You could take the last page as being literal or symbolic and the story works either way.


That was my take.

It was pretty intentionally framed so that the reader could draw their own conclusion. 

*spoilers:*
It's not like it wasn't the exact demon she has already seen or there was someone else there to see it as well.
*end of spoilers*

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## ed2962

> Yeah, I think the question of whether or not the demon is "real" is beside the point. It's just symbolic of their desire to single-handedly fix the world. 
> 
> Overall, good series. It's kinda seeped in that particular brand of "everything is awful, and trying to fix things is naive and bad" cynicism/strawmanning that I generally find boring (and a bit immature-masquerading-as-wise), but Brubaker is a fantastic writer, which helps to overlook the philosophical divide. Consequently though, because of how blatant he was about the protagonist's mission being stupid and misguided (and literally delusional, because subtlety!), the ending was predictable pretty much from the start, and the fake-out really didn't work at all (did nobody else find it immediately obvious?).
> 
> But yeah. I sound like I'm ragging on it hard, but I did really enjoy it, bleak and defeatist as it is.


I interpeted it as less cynical about fixing the world and more cynical about the vigilante fantasy that one person can fix the world by shooting random "bad" people. That that idea itsself is kind of immature.

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