# Comics  > Batman >  Poison Ivy Appreciation 2018

## Dylan Davison

This is an Appreciation thread for the long time Bats character:
POISON IVY



First appearing in 1966 in Batman Vol. 1 issue 181, Ivy was a villain who could control men with just a kiss and could climb up walls like a vine. She gave Batman a kiss and he was hers, in till he and Robin stopped her in issue 183.

Sometime later she gets the power over plants, after a changing in her origin. 


Her skin can change color and has over the years, from normal to green, and her costume has changed too. 

She has always been the Queen of Plants and even though she is seen as a bad guy she does what she does for her "Babys", her plants. And has sometime even been written as a good person who does bad things or even an anti-hero type of character (in fact she even once to care of a bunch of orphans when they had no where else to go, she kept them safe and protected them), she has always been a favorite in the eyes of many.

She has been in a lot of Batman family comics over the years, as well as a lot of others. She has been written a lot of times as a best friend to the character Harley Quinn and has worked with her plenty of times. 

Before the relaunch she was in a new title with some other kick butt females (Catwoman and her bff Harley Quinn) called Gotham City Sirens.


She has recently been a member of the Birds of Prey and is currently in the Batgirl Annual 2! 

Use this thread to talk about everything old and new about the mistress of plant live Poison Ivy, show pictures, talk about issue and debate on things in a nice manner.

Poison Ivy is my favorite DC character, so lets get this thread restarted!

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## nepenthes

I have mixed thoughts about her Batgirl appearance. On one hand it's great a writer tried to do something thoughtful and substantial with her, other hand though, wow, almost everything about it was cringe inducing. Awkward dialogue, clumsy characterisation, incessant babbling, three cheeses and a cheesy crust. Poison ICE.

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## Dylan Davison

> I have mixed thoughts about her Batgirl appearance. On one hand it's great a writer tried to do something thoughtful and substantial with her, other other though, wow, almost everything about it was cringe inducing. Awkward dialogue, clunky plotting, incessant babbling, three cheeses and a cheesy crust. Poison ICE.


I have not read it yet, but I was hopeful. But that fact that you have said that makes me a little worried...we shall see.

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## Dylan Davison

I just read it...it was alright. That Poison Ice stuff was lame. So I guess Ivy's state of mind changes with the seasons? So like she gets more crazy as winter comes? I don't know how I feel about it. Though I like that Ivy did not kill anyone in that issue (well one person, but spoilers), and she was rather a good person in it as well. I got lost around the baby part. I feel like there is so much more to be told about what is going on with Ivy.

I am for sure going to ask about it and SDCC this year.

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## batGRRRl4ever

Other than the 'Poison Ice' line which I agree wasn't the greatest, everything else in Pamela's appearance I really liked and thought the depiction was really strong.  And wasn't the fact around her mother something new for the New 52?  I felt that this issue could really be a jumping point to start her own title, if DC were so inclined.  I know a thing or two about SAD, and while the emotional affectations were exaggerated per the theme with her powers, I still found this new wrinkle for her character inspired.

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## Pinsir

Here is also a list of my favourite Ivy stories:

Batman #181 - Beware of Poison Ivy (1966)
Batman #183 - A Touch of Poison Ivy (1966)
Shadow of the Bat Annual #03 - Poison Ivy Year One (1995)
Shadow of the Bat #56-58 - Leaves of Grass (1996)
Batman: Poison Ivy   (1997) *Graphic Novel*
Gotham Knights #14 The Bet (2001) *Back-up*
Batman: Harley & Ivy #1-3 (2004)
Batman & Poison Ivy: Cast Shadows *Graphic Novel*
Solo #6 Poison *Part of Collection*
Detective Comics #823 Stalked (2006)
Batman Strikes #38 Pretty Poison (2007)

As a general rule I like Ivy when:

> she's is either less killy or extremely crazy killy
> less sexualized, emphasis on Beauty/cuteness
> anti-hero 
> in singles or one shots
> motherly, yet young, immortal

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## Pinsir

My favourite fan images:



I like her New 52 costume. It is better than most others.



This is my favourite costume type. Sexy, but not overtly sexy.



.......I have no defence

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## Vanguard-01

I'm a huge fan of Ivy when she isn't written as a two-dimensional generic psychopath.

Her appearance in the new Batgirl Annual was just about perfect. She's a force of nature. She doesn't consider herself human.....but she clearly still is. She wants to save the world.....her only failing on that front is in her methods. 

Great character. Needs more love.

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## Dylan Davison

> Other than the 'Poison Ice' line which I agree wasn't the greatest, everything else in Pamela's appearance I really liked and thought the depiction was really strong.  And wasn't the fact around her mother something new for the New 52?  I felt that this issue could really be a jumping point to start her own title, if DC were so inclined.  I know a thing or two about SAD, and while the emotional affectations were exaggerated per the theme with her powers, I still found this new wrinkle for her character inspired.


Her mother was brought up before in the new 52 in the issue that Ivy took over. Detective comics 23.1 I think. I believe it was. 

Also glad to see you back! 

Ya it took me a while to get a hold of it but I kinda like her with SAD. Maybe she had it before the powers, then it grew with the powers. It gives her a mental reason for her crazy, other then her being evil. And its something that can be helped, I am sure. So maybe we can get a more hero Ivy now. 

And I agree this would be a great place to start her own title. Like she goes to arkham, gets out, then her new series starts (written by Gail :P).




> I'm a huge fan of Ivy when she isn't written as a two-dimensional generic psychopath.
> 
> Her appearance in the new Batgirl Annual was just about perfect. She's a force of nature. She doesn't consider herself human.....but she clearly still is. She wants to save the world.....her only failing on that front is in her methods. 
> 
> Great character. Needs more love.


And I think this issue gave her character reasons for her methods. The SADs tell us why she is the way she is. And it gives them the chance to help her get better. And clearly she cares about humans more then she thinks. She does not kill randomly and can show mercy and care.

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## Dylan Davison

According to wiki "There are many different treatments for classic (winter-based) seasonal affective disorder, including light therapy, medication, ionized-air administration, cognitive-behavioral therapy and carefully timed supplementation of the hormone melatonin." So Ivy can just spend her down time doing some of this, light therapy, medication and the air thing and she can be going some great things to help people and this earth! She can be like a anti-hero now.

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## Vanguard-01

> And I think this issue gave her character reasons for her methods. The SADs tell us why she is the way she is. And it gives them the chance to help her get better. And clearly she cares about humans more then she thinks. She does not kill randomly and can show mercy and care.


Precisely. 

The "Kill all humans" Ivy is a HORRIBLE joke. It's too simplistic. Saying that she can actually feel and care for people and doesn't want to kill EVERYONE instantaneously makes her a deeper, more interesting character.

That scene of her weeping as she gently euthanizes a good man for being a better father than hers was absolutely TOUCHING. A villain who can tug at your heartstrings like that is made of pure gold as far as story potential goes. Hell, this issue further drove home the fact that Ivy works better as an anti-hero, or at least an anti-villain, than she does as a flat-out bad guy that Batman's supposed to beat up.

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## Dylan Davison

> Precisely. 
> 
> The "Kill all humans" Ivy is a HORRIBLE joke. It's too simplistic. Saying that she can actually feel and care for people and doesn't want to kill EVERYONE instantaneously makes her a deeper, more interesting character.
> 
> That scene of her weeping as she gently euthanizes a good man for being a better father than hers was absolutely TOUCHING. A villain who can tug at your heartstrings like that is made of pure gold as far as story potential goes. Hell, this issue further drove home the fact that Ivy works better as an anti-hero, or at least an anti-villain, than she does as a flat-out bad guy that Batman's supposed to beat up.


I loved that part! Ivy crying made me sad! It was so touching. And I agree! She is a anti-hero or villain at best!

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## Pinsir



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## Enigmatic Undead



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## retical

So we lost every post?
Back from the start?

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## Punisher007

I agree with the people who say that the annual would be a great starting point to do an Ivy ongoing series.  This SAD thing gives her yet another bit of character dimension.  A solo book would be a great place to explore her complexity even more.

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## retical

> I agree with the people who say that the annual would be a great starting point to do an Ivy ongoing series.  This SAD thing gives her yet another bit of character dimension.  A solo book would be a great place to explore her complexity even more.


I agree. Batgirl Annual proved that theres is so much to explore with Ivy beyond "Generic Villain no216478" and "Lol Harley and Ivy"

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## LoneNecromancer

Also, here's Poison by Alice Cooper, as it is clearly Ivy's song.

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## Pinsir

These were on the DC site. Not sure if they are still there.

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## Kid A

> I'm a huge fan of Ivy when she isn't written as a two-dimensional generic psychopath.
> 
> Her appearance in the new Batgirl Annual was just about perfect. She's a force of nature. She doesn't consider herself human.....but she clearly still is. She wants to save the world.....her only failing on that front is in her methods. 
> 
> Great character. Needs more love.


Yeah I like when she's portrayed a sympathetic but only a little extreme. 

When she's written as a full villain, there's kind of a disturbing (unintentional, I'm sure) subtext of a corporate billionaire beating up the evil environmentalist.

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## Vanguard-01

> Yeah I like when she's portrayed a sympathetic but only a little extreme. 
> 
> When she's written as a full villain, there's kind of a disturbing (unintentional, I'm sure) subtext of a corporate billionaire beating up the evil environmentalist.


Very true.

At the end of the day, when Ivy is just a straight-up "Kill, kill, kill" character, it's much too easy to just root for Batman to take her down. We can still acknowledge that her cause is a good one, but we just don't feel quite as sympathetic because Ivy has just gone too far and we WANT Mr. Billionaire Industrialist to kick her ass and throw her in prison.

When, on the other hand, Ivy is a complex character who tries to help the world and can actually show a sense of compassion, mercy, and a genuine desire to do good? Suddenly, it's not as easy to cheer when Batman takes her down. 

Ivy is the kind of villain Batman should almost NEVER go straight to "Beat Her Down and Lock Her Up Mode." He should always try to talk her down first. He should appeal to her reason, because unlike the Joker, Ivy actually HAS some reason. Even when he DOES have to take Ivy down, I'm a firm believer that he should always try to handle her with kid gloves. And the best possible Ivy stories should always leave Bruce questioning whether or not he ultimately did the right thing by stopping her.

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## Pinsir

> Yeah I like when she's portrayed a sympathetic but only a little extreme. 
> 
> When she's written as a full villain, there's kind of a disturbing (unintentional, I'm sure) subtext of a corporate billionaire beating up the evil environmentalist.


Well Batman also pummels confirmed insane people. Many of whom lack the ability to control there own actions.

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## retical

Ivy going murderous and stuff doesn't even make sense. She can seduce, mind control, create hallucinations and many other cool stuff. Why would she kill someone and have Batman chasing her? Also most of the times (when she is written well) Ivy has a point. I mean global warming, destruction of the planet, pollution, are all some very serious issues. I hope that after this annual DC will reconsider her part in the DCU.

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## Confuzzled

> Also, here's Poison by Alice Cooper, as it is clearly Ivy's song.


Is it just me or do these images look like they are Mary Jane Watson cosplaying as Ivy instead of Ivy herself.

Oh, and there IS a Poison Ivy fan tribute video using Poison.

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## Confuzzled

> So we lost every post?
> Back from the start?


It's okay. Poison Ivy and her Flower Children _always grow back_.  :Wink:

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## Dylan Davison

> It's okay. Poison Ivy and her Flower Children _always grow back_.


Haha the Ivy thread was not the biggest one in post count :P we will make it back up!

I really thing they can't go back to just crazy killer Ivy now...the way she was in the annual and in BoP should be the way Ivy is from now on. At least in the main DCU.

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## retical

Absinthe/Poison Ivy
The Green Fairy!

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## Deathstroke the Terminator

Ivy is one of my favorite female villains in comics, having said that there is a scan from "Batman: Shadow of the Bat Annual #5 I Was The Love-Slave Of A Plant-Based Killer" I keep seeing, but as I have never read the book and haven't been able to find it I was wondering if another fan of her's who does own it could provide the full scan.
Poisonivy.jpg 
I'm asking because I've always wondered what the full story to that picture is. If anyone could provide it they would have my sincerest gratitude.

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## Dylan Davison

I have never seen that...maybe I am just forgetful, but I don't even know where that is from. Looks interesting for sure though. Maybe Nep knows, if he sees this lol.

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## nepenthes

> Ivy is one of my favorite female villains in comics, having said that there is a scan from "Batman: Shadow of the Bat Annual #5 I Was The Love-Slave Of A Plant-Based Killer" I keep seeing, but as I have never read the book and haven't been able to find it I was wondering if another fan of her's who does own it could provide the full scan.
> Poisonivy.jpg 
> I'm asking because I've always wondered what the full story to that picture is. If anyone could provide it they would have my sincerest gratitude.


I have the issue but no scanner at home. Give us a couple days and I'll try to remember to do it at work 

The cover of this issue helped form another image that might be familiar to you.....  :Wink:   <

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## Deathstroke the Terminator

Oh cool, thanks 

I feel like I've seen part of that cover somewhere but I can't remember where... nah I've never seen it anywhere, it would make a good gif with other Ivy's pics though I bet.

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## retical

Simone's story was better than I expected. And judging by the reviews I'm reading online this is a success.
But now I want to see more. What was your favorite moment?
For me it was Ivy's famous kiss of death and how it was utilized and of course the "Not any parent" moment.

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## Dylan Davison

> Simone's story was better than I expected. And judging by the reviews I'm reading online this is a success.
> But now I want to see more. What was your favorite moment?
> For me it was Ivy's famous kiss of death and how it was utilized and of course the "Not any parent" moment.


I have to say, that whole part that leads up the the part where Ivy uses that kiss of death is great! I think the build up to that, with the talk that Batgirl and Ivy have with him, to the talk about SADs, then the goodbye kiss from Ivy was all great! I love that Batgirl and Ivy are more alike then they think.

Also did you put that image together?

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## retical

> I have to say, that whole part that leads up the the part where Ivy uses that kiss of death is great! I think the build up to that, with the talk that Batgirl and Ivy have with him, to the talk about SADs, then the goodbye kiss from Ivy was all great! I love that Batgirl and Ivy are more alike then they think.
> 
> Also did you put that image together?


Nope, found it online. I really like how Batgirl cares for Ivy (more than she thought). Quality writing. Now I want some more Ivy. Too bad her only appearance in the following months is in Harley Quinn. Quick! Back to beaver jokes! Don't let Ivy evolve as a character! And always put her behind Harley.

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## Confuzzled

Ivy was voted #9 in CSBG's Best Batman Villains List: http://goodcomics.comicbookresources...villains-10-6/

That was pretty good compared to the other Batman female villains. Talia placed #12, Harley was #11 and even the original bad girl Catwoman beat Ivy only by one spot at #8. Though it should be noted that Catwoman placed in the Batman Allies list at #6.

It was the Scarecrow's placement at #7 that surprised me the most, beating both Catwoman and Poison Ivy. The Riddler and Penguin placed at #4 and #5 respectively, beating Bane who was #6. All in all, a pretty interesting list, even though the Top 3 (Joker, Ra's and Two-Face) weren't surprising.

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## retical

> Ivy was voted #9 in CSBG's Best Batman Villains List: http://goodcomics.comicbookresources...villains-10-6/
> 
> That was pretty good compared to the other Batman female villains. Talia placed #12, Harley was #11 and even the original bad girl Catwoman beat Ivy only by one spot at #8. Though it should be noted that Catwoman placed in the Batman Allies list at #6.
> 
> It was the Scarecrow's placement at #7 that surprised me the most, beating both Catwoman and Poison Ivy. The Riddler and Penguin placed at #4 and #5 respectively, beating Bane who was #6. All in all, a pretty interesting list, even though the Top 3 (Joker, Ra's and Two-Face) weren't surprising.


I read the article. They never said we could vote Ivy in allies. After Batgirl Annual, the stakes are high.

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## retical

I'm gonna try and post some pics that you liked from the original thread.

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## Pinsir

Ivy fans which PI fans do you prefer? I prefer the 'New' AS.

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## Confuzzled

Seems like there is going to be a child Pamela Isley in the new "Gotham" show on Fox, as shown in its first trailer:

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## Dylan Davison

As long as they don't ruin her by making her a villain before her time I am happy lol. This show looks great though!




> Ivy fans which PI fans do you prefer? I prefer the 'New' AS.


I like both, but I like the real looking feel to the first one.




> Nope, found it online. I really like how Batgirl cares for Ivy (more than she thought). Quality writing. Now I want some more Ivy. Too bad her only appearance in the following months is in Harley Quinn. Quick! Back to beaver jokes! Don't let Ivy evolve as a character! And always put her behind Harley.


God I wish Harley Quinn was not such a killer to who Ivy has become in the new52. I get it, its popular, she is like the Deadpool of DC. But that beaver joke XD.

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## retical

> Ivy fans which PI fans do you prefer? I prefer the 'New' AS.


The first one. Looks a bit more human. The second one was revealed to be a clone that Iv made in order to live a normal life.

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## Confuzzled

BTAS Ivy was one smokin' lady whose feisty sultriness increased Poison Ivy's popularity ten fold. It was from BTAS that I first became aware of Poison Ivy. The voluptuous redhead with a plant motif shooting from her glove crossbow was an epitome of sexiness. A fact that I was somehow aware of even in my childhood.

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## retical



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## MentalManipulator

> BTAS Ivy was one smokin' lady whose feisty sultriness increased Poison Ivy's popularity ten fold. It was from BTAS that I first became aware of Poison Ivy. The voluptuous redhead with a plant motif shooting from her glove crossbow was an epitome of sexiness. A fact that I was somehow aware of even in my childhood.


I couldn't agree more...it was by that time that I fell in love with her also. 

On another note I'm really curious to see where they are going to take with Ivy on the Gotham TV show? I'm open to liking the show even if they made the terrible mistake of calling her Ivy Pepper....?????

Also....would guys like to see her in the new line of highly articulated action figures based on the animated series? Which version would you prefer? BTAS or BNAS? I would love both of course but always thought the first design to be far more superior.

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## Punisher007

Ivy is essentially an uber-environmentalist with an obsession with plants.  That'd be pretty easy for the show to do.  She probably won't even have powers yet.  Maybe she's some kind of eco-terrorist.  If her name really is "Ivy Pepper" on the show, then I'm not a huge fan of that.  Pamela Isley just sounds much better.

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## retical

> Ivy is essentially an uber-environmentalist with an obsession with plants.  That'd be pretty easy for the show to do.  She probably won't even have powers yet.  Maybe she's some kind of eco-terrorist.  If her name really is "Ivy Pepper" on the show, then I'm not a huge fan of that.  Pamela Isley just sounds much better.


I think she's very young in this, probably ten or something. An from what I've heard she only appears in the pilot.

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## Punisher007

She look pretty wild/messed up in her brief shot in the trailer.  So it's possible that they'll hint that there's already something wrong with her mental state.

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## Dylan Davison

Where are people getting Ivy Pepper from? That is not a good name lol. Pam is sooo much better XD.

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## Enigmatic Undead



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## Deathstroke the Terminator

Does anyone have any thoughts on New 52 Ivy changing with the seasons?

http://www.placesandpredators.com/52...rlAnnual2i.jpg

At first I thought it was a really dumb idea, but then I began thinking they might do something cool with this so I'll save my opinion for now.

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## Dylan Davison

> Does anyone have any thoughts on New 52 Ivy changing with the seasons?
> 
> http://www.placesandpredators.com/52...rlAnnual2i.jpg
> 
> At first I thought it was a really dumb idea, but then I began thinking they might do something cool with this so I'll save my opinion for now.


I like that, it ties in with that SADs really well, and it adds something really cool to her that we did not have before. I did not really care for them saying poison ice, but I like that it changes and the plant part gets iced over.

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## WonderScott

I prefer the BTAS version of Ivy, a brilliant biobotanist but unhinged when push comes to shove. She's similar to Mr. Freeze in that I want to sympathize with her, but would rather not see become an anti-heroine. She's one of Batman's few prominent supervillainesses and I definitely enjoy her as such.

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## Confuzzled

> I like that, it ties in with that SADs really well, and it adds something really cool to her that we did not have before. I did not really care for them saying poison ice, but I like that it changes and the plant part gets iced over.


I agree. It makes sense as a real plant or tree physically and physiologically changes with the seasons, so it is fascinating to see this cyclical change take place for Ivy in a human and psychological form like SAD.

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## Dylan Davison

> I agree. It makes sense as a real plant or tree physically and physiologically changes with the seasons, so it is fascinating to see this cyclical change take place for Ivy in a human and psychological form like SAD.


Ya I have been researching a lot about SADs because of this, its a very interesting mental illness and it fits Ivy really well.

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## Punisher007

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansit.../news/?a=99770

Ivy's on the Gotham official poster.  Oh and how nice of them to separate the characters into "hero" and "villain" sides, with Gordon and Bullock in the middle.   I really like that for some reason.

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## retical

> http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansit.../news/?a=99770
> 
> Ivy's on the Gotham official poster.  Oh and how nice of them to separate the characters into "hero" and "villain" sides, with Gordon and Bullock in the middle.   I really like that for some reason.


Labelling a 10 year old girl as a "villain", a "threat", an "enemy" is creepy.

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## Punisher007

Not really, it's been done lots of times in fiction before.  And been done really well.  Heck "creepy/evil kids" is practically it's own sub-genre at this point.

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## Dylan Davison

I don't think she is going to be evil or a villain, maybe just a bad girl? XD lol.

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## retical

> Not really, it's been done lots of times in fiction before.  And been done really well.  Heck "creepy/evil kids" is practically it's own sub-genre at this point.


I still find it creepy and disturbing. It's really cheap. At this age kids don't even have fully developed conscience.

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## Dylan Davison

> I still find it creepy and disturbing. It's really cheap. At this age kids don't even have fully developed conscience.


Idk, I think they do at that age, she looks like 10 to 12.

Again I don't she will be a villain. My guess is her mom gets killed by her dad and the GCPD will investigate, solve the murder, then she will get sent to stay with her "uncle or something" woodrue. And she starts to lose it a bit after losing both her mom and dad. That my guess, cause this is a cop drama, but I could be wrong. I would like that to be close though.

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## retical

So I guess after Batgirl Annual #2 Ivy goes on hiatus. Apart her cameo in Harley Quinn I don't think she is mentioned in any solicitation.
I was hoping she could go back to BoP.

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## Green Ghost

There's a poll on the DC Page for which New 52 character should get an action figure...Poison Ivy is also on this list:
http://www.dccomics.com/blog/2014/05...-action-figure

So *VOTE*!

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## retical

> There's a poll on the DC Page for which New 52 character should get an action figure...Poison Ivy is also on this list:
> http://www.dccomics.com/blog/2014/05...-action-figure
> 
> So *VOTE*!


So you vote but you don't get to see the results? OOOOOKKKKKK......

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## Dylan Davison

Telling all my friends too! Everyone vote! We need a new52 Ivy figure! I mean look at that suit!

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## retical



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## retical

Is anyone else disappointed by how Ivy was teased by Snyder in Zero Year and she only got one measly panel? Just saw the new Batman Eternal solicitations. Same thing here. She was teased in the "Thanksgiving" pic and she's nowhere to be found. 

I also voted for the action figure and posted it on FB too.

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## retical



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## Dylan Davison

Thanks for getting that image back! Its one of my favorites!

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## retical

More art is coming. No Ivy in September's Future's end too.

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## MentalManipulator

The new Ivy figure:

TNBA_Poison_Ivy__scaled_600.jpg

what do you guys think about it?
I prefer the BTAS version...more gorgeous but still thrilled for this line and happy we already got her so soon!

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## Confuzzled

> The new Ivy figure:
> 
> TNBA_Poison_Ivy__scaled_600.jpg
> 
> what do you guys think about it?
> I prefer the BTAS version...more gorgeous but still thrilled for this line and happy we already got her so soon!


I love it. Though I too prefer the BTAS version, this new line captures the sleek look of the TNBA designs perfectly! Wasn't TNBA Ivy supposed to be Clone Ivy though? Lol. I thought the real Pam left for South America at the end of _House and Garden_ and never returned to Gotham.

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## Dylan Davison

> I love it. Though I too prefer the BTAS version, this new line captures the sleek look of the TNBA designs perfectly! Wasn't TNBA Ivy supposed to be Clone Ivy though? Lol. I thought the real Pam left for South America at the end of _House and Garden_ and never returned to Gotham.


Ya, though that was in a comic that not a lot of people knew about.


I really want that figure though!

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## retical

> I love it. Though I too prefer the BTAS version, this new line captures the sleek look of the TNBA designs perfectly! Wasn't TNBA Ivy supposed to be Clone Ivy though? Lol. I thought the real Pam left for South America at the end of _House and Garden_ and never returned to Gotham.


That's a cool figure. I prefer the original (chubby) version but this looks nice and well designed.

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## MentalManipulator

> That's a cool figure. I prefer the original (chubby) version but this looks nice and well designed.


I totally agree it looks good (although the head seems a bit to big for me)

But still would love to see her looking like this:
Animated.jpg

especially since their Catwoman looks amazing!

They said the plan is to release both versions of as many characters as possible! That would rock! This was (together with X-Men animated series) my favorite cartoon and action figures growing up! So I would love to have them redone nowadays!

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## Dylan Davison

Well Birds of Prey got canceled. The editors should have let Duane alone and let him do what he wanted, Batgirl would have not been in the team sure, but Ivy would have stayed and it would have been a great book. Oh well.

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## Confuzzled

> I totally agree it looks good (although the head seems a bit to big for me)
> 
> But still would love to see her looking like this:
> Attachment 2224
> 
> especially since their Catwoman looks amazing!
> 
> They said the plan is to release both versions of as many characters as possible! That would rock! This was (together with X-Men animated series) my favorite cartoon and action figures growing up! So I would love to have them redone nowadays!


There was this insanely sexy Poison Ivy statue based on her BTAS design which had her lying on a bed of roses. It came out in the early 00's I think. Cannot find an image of it online though.  :Frown:  It must be a pretty valuable collector's item now.

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## Confuzzled

> Well Birds of Prey got canceled. The editors should have let Duane alone and let him do what he wanted, Batgirl would have not been in the team sure, but Ivy would have stayed and it would have been a great book. Oh well.


Yeah, editorial interference during Duane S's run was crazy. First Batgirl was shoehorned in, then the Court of Owls crossover was forced onto him and then Ivy was borrowed for the Rotworld event. All that happened in the span of the first fifteen issues. How could any writer tell a seamless narrative after all that?

Still hoping for that Secret Six series with Ivy and Starling though!  :Big Grin:

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## Dylan Davison

> Yeah, editorial interference during Duane S's run was crazy. First Batgirl was shoehorned in, then the Court of Owls crossover was forced onto him and then Ivy was borrowed for the Rotworld event. All that happened in the span of the first fifteen issues. How could any writer tell a seamless narrative after all that?
> 
> Still hoping for that Secret Six series with Ivy and Starling though!


I am hoping for anything with Ivy, but now is a really good time for that Poison Ivy ongoing! Someone said she could be the Magneto of DC and I think that fits. She is trying to do a good thing, but the wrong and bad way.

But ya Duane even told me he had plans to bring Ivy back but he could not get to them.

----------


## retical

> I am hoping for anything with Ivy, but now is a really good time for that Poison Ivy ongoing! Someone said she could be the Magneto of DC and I think that fits. She is trying to do a good thing, but the wrong and bad way.
> 
> But ya Duane even told me he had plans to bring Ivy back but he could not get to them.


And she is getting kicked out of every book she was going to appear. Look how they advertised her part in Zero Year and in the end all she got was one panel.

----------


## retical

> Yeah, editorial interference during Duane S's run was crazy. First Batgirl was shoehorned in, then the Court of Owls crossover was forced onto him and then Ivy was borrowed for the Rotworld event. All that happened in the span of the first fifteen issues. How could any writer tell a seamless narrative after all that?
> 
> Still hoping for that Secret Six series with Ivy and Starling though!


That would kick some serious ass.

----------


## Dylan Davison

> And she is getting kicked out of every book she was going to appear. Look how they advertised her part in Zero Year and in the end all she got was one panel.


Well they never said how much she was going to appear in. So they did not lie. I dont think they are kicking her out of anything but BoP.

They dont have a evil vendetta against Ivy.

----------


## retical

> Well they never said how much she was going to appear in. So they did not lie. I dont think they are kicking her out of anything but BoP.
> 
> They dont have a evil vendetta against Ivy.


Well you have a point there. But still one measly panel. 
I think there is an Arkham Asylum Ivy statue coming out.

----------


## retical

Here it is. Gotta get some sleep.

----------


## Dylan Davison

Looks cool. I would get it. But I have to much to buy. Maybe later :P.

----------


## retical



----------


## retical

According to another site Ivy appears in the latest Harley Quinn issue.

----------


## Dylan Davison

> According to another site Ivy appears in the latest Harley Quinn issue.


According to me I could care less :P lol.

I really take that series as out of continuity, some of it is good, but I don't trust anything in it as a new52. They have even stated that there Harley is a mix of all the popular Harely's that they love, including the new52 Harley. 

Maybe the story will be good, I will maybe read it in store. But that Ivy is not my Ivy. 

Just my view on it though. If some likes that Ivy good for them. Its just not for me.

----------


## retical

> According to me I could care less :P lol.
> 
> I really take that series as out of continuity, some of it is good, but I don't trust anything in it as a new52. They have even stated that there Harley is a mix of all the popular Harely's that they love, including the new52 Harley. 
> 
> Maybe the story will be good, I will maybe read it in store. But that Ivy is not my Ivy. 
> 
> Just my view on it though. If some likes that Ivy good for them. Its just not for me.


I agree. I just mentioned her appearance. This is another character in Ivy's costume.

----------


## Dylan Davison

> I agree. I just mentioned her appearance. This is another character in Ivy's costume.


No I don't think its another character, its a Ivy, but not the new52 Ivy. Its a different universe Ivy.

----------


## retical

> No I don't think its another character, its a Ivy, but not the new52 Ivy. Its a different universe Ivy.


I don't think Conner and Palmiotti really care about the character, or continuity or anything at all. It's just money. They don't explain HOW can they still be friends after everything Harley has done. Logically Ivy should hunt her down for what she did both in her ongoing and Suicide Squad. In fact they don't explain anything at all. I guess they'll keing it for another Mad Love or Harley and Ivy where they will destroy New52 Ivy beyond repair.

----------


## Dylan Davison

> I don't think Conner and Palmiotti really care about the character, or continuity or anything at all. It's just money. They don't explain HOW can they still be friends after everything Harley has done. Logically Ivy should hunt her down for what she did both in her ongoing and Suicide Squad. In fact they don't explain anything at all. I guess they'll keing it for another Mad Love or Harley and Ivy where they will destroy New52 Ivy beyond repair.


Like I said, its a non-continuity book. Its not part of the new52 and they are telling the story they want to tell, not just about money. And I am glad they get to tell the stories they want. But its not just my thing. Does not mean that it should not have a fan base. I wish it was listed as a non-new52 title though. Cause its really not.

----------


## retical

> Like I said, its a non-continuity book. Its not part of the new52 and they are telling the story they want to tell, not just about money. And I am glad they get to tell the stories they want. But its not just my thing. Does not mean that it should not have a fan base. I wish it was listed as a non-new52 title though. Cause its really not.


Ok I get it. The whole New52 continuity is confusing.

----------


## Confuzzled

Just saw this on the deviantart front page. It's amazing how much love Ivy receives on the site.



This piece is by reiq: http://www.deviantart.com/art/Poison-Ivy-455748795

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Ok I get it. The whole New52 continuity is confusing.


They have never stated its not in the main continuity, but I mean look at the issue in September, Joker is alive and normal in it and marrying Harley. That can not be in continuity lol.

----------


## LoneNecromancer

> They have never stated its not in the main continuity, but I mean look at the issue in September, Joker is alive and normal in it and marrying Harley. That can not be in continuity lol.


...that's a Future's End issue, they're all "five years forwards" in a future that will never be.

----------


## retical

> They have never stated its not in the main continuity, but I mean look at the issue in September, Joker is alive and normal in it and marrying Harley. That can not be in continuity lol.


NO matter what continuity it is, I didn't find it enough entertaining to find a place in my pull list. I'm not saying it's a bad book but it feels more like fanfiction.

----------


## retical

> Just saw this on the deviantart front page. It's amazing how much love Ivy receives on the site.
> 
> 
> 
> This piece is by reiq: http://www.deviantart.com/art/Poison-Ivy-455748795


I just searched for Ivy in deviantart: 223536 results.

----------


## Dylan Davison

> NO matter what continuity it is, I didn't find it enough entertaining to find a place in my pull list. I'm not saying it's a bad book but it feels more like fanfiction.


I mainly agree cause of the sexual joke Ivy made, just does not fit Ivy at all.




> ...that's a Future's End issue, they're all "five years forwards" in a future that will never be.


Well good point I guess, but still its not the only thing that seems out of continuity haha. The main fact being they have stated that this is a mix of all the Harleys from many places, including the new52.

----------


## Confuzzled

There's this project called _Little Girls Are Better Than Designing Superheroes Than You_, created by Alexandria Law and which interprets little girl versions of superhero costumes into comic book-y illustrations. Ivy was the first supervillain to receive the honor.




Tumblr link: http://bettersupes.tumblr.com/post/75297695347

----------


## Confuzzled

> I just searched for Ivy in deviantart: 223536 results.


OMG! Yeah, she's SUPER popular with budding artists. As popular as she is with cosplayers.  :Embarrassment:

----------


## Dylan Davison

Awww that is super cute!

----------


## MentalManipulator

> There was this insanely sexy Poison Ivy statue based on her BTAS design which had her lying on a bed of roses. It came out in the early 00's I think. Cannot find an image of it online though.  It must be a pretty valuable collector's item now.


this one right? I love it too!

!CBRfKK!BGk~$(KGrHqN,!g8EzegYPUbEBNG7eV69+g~~_35.jpg

----------


## Dylan Davison

> this one right? I love it too!
> 
> !CBRfKK!BGk~$(KGrHqN,!g8EzegYPUbEBNG7eV69+g~~_35.jpg


I have never seen that! Cool!

----------


## retical

> There's this project called _Little Girls Are Better Than Designing Superheroes Than You_, created by Alexandria Law and which interprets little girl versions of superhero costumes into comic book-y illustrations. Ivy was the first supervillain to receive the honor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tumblr link: http://bettersupes.tumblr.com/post/75297695347


This is very cute and creative!

----------


## Confuzzled

> this one right? I love it too!
> 
> !CBRfKK!BGk~$(KGrHqN,!g8EzegYPUbEBNG7eV69+g~~_35.jpg


Yes, this was the one! Haven't seen even an image of it in more than 12 years. Thank you for posting.  :Smile:

----------


## Enigmatic Undead



----------


## retical

> 


Very nice! And look at Batman's smirk.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> Yes, this was the one! Haven't seen even an image of it in more than 12 years. Thank you for posting.


No problem. I like it very much too  :Smile:

----------


## Enigmatic Undead



----------


## retical

> 


This is one of the best. Very realistic.

----------


## retical



----------


## Enigmatic Undead



----------


## MentalManipulator

beautifull jim lee inspired art..I sincerely miss this look

poison_ivy_by_seane-d4oq1do.jpg

----------


## Dylan Davison

I like that look, but I think there is nothing wrong with her new look. In fact I like her new52 look way better. Its sexy with out being overly sexual or more naked. I think its really cool and it adds something to the character.

----------


## retical

> I like that look, but I think there is nothing wrong with her new look. In fact I like her new52 look way better. Its sexy with out being overly sexual or more naked. I think its really cool and it adds something to the character.


I agree. Her new look is absolutely stunning.

----------


## retical



----------


## Dylan Davison

I was looking at custom new52 figures for Ivy, and they looked so good. It made me want a real one lol. It needs to happen! I want it next to my other Ivy figures.

----------


## gwhh



----------


## ImprobableQuestion

Off of Greg Capullo's Twitter. Look at her right wrist!

BovTUfWIUAAaoQY.jpg

----------


## ABH

Just saw this on Pinterest:



It's part of a Femme Fatale Art Series and Poison Ivy is modeled after Game of Thrones star Natalie Dormer.

http://geektyrant.com/news/famous-ac...ale-art-series

----------


## nepenthes

^ thats pretty great, along with bird woman in the link. I'd love to see the entire rogues gallery from this artist.

----------


## retical

> Off of Greg Capullo's Twitter. Look at her right wrist!
> 
> Attachment 3021


This looks like a tribal tattoo. I don't think she is Ivy.

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Off of Greg Capullo's Twitter. Look at her right wrist!
> 
> Attachment 3021


What book does he do? I can't re call. 

But I agree, I dont think its Ivy, just a tattoo.

----------


## Enigmatic Undead

> What book does he do? I can't re call.


He pencils Scott Snyder's Batman book.

----------


## nepenthes

Odds are it's Ivy. She's already involved in the final act and I doubt Capullo would bother posting a pic of a random woman who just happens to have a plant looking thing on her arm. 




> What book does he do? I can't re call. 
> 
> But I agree, I dont think its Ivy, just a tattoo.


From Batman #25





...and Riddler has used her grow formula here

----------


## retical

> Odds are it's Ivy. She's already involved in the final act and I doubt Capullo would bother posting a pic of a random woman who just happens to have a plant looking thing on her arm. 
> 
> 
> 
> From Batman #25
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This must be the girl Bruce used to date when he was in college, Julie Madison, not Ivy. 
I don't think they'll let Snyder imply Pamela was Bruce's love interest. If you look at the rest
pics Capullo posted, it's really obvious that's she his girlfriend. Bruce also looks younger in them.
Also Ivy wears glasses.

----------


## nepenthes

> This must be the girl Bruce used to date when he was in college, Julie Madison, not Ivy. 
> I don't think they'll let Snyder imply Pamela was Bruce's love interest. If you look at the rest
> pics Capullo posted, it's really obvious that's she his girlfriend. Bruce also looks younger in them.
> Also Ivy wears glasses.


After looking at his Twitter yeah you may be right - she's very girlfriendy. Though you never know it could be a) Pamela playing tricks with Bruce or b) Julie under Ivys control therefore the plant thing there. The plant thing is very suspect. 

Also yeah....Greg Capullos twitter feed.....hahaha  :Cool: 

https://twitter.com/GregCapullo/stat...769664/photo/1
https://twitter.com/GregCapullo/stat...071488/photo/1
https://twitter.com/GregCapullo/stat...485057/photo/1
https://twitter.com/GregCapullo/stat...628032/photo/1
seriously Greg

----------


## retical

Can somebody explain to Conner and Palmiotti that these are not tribal tattoos on Ivy's body and also the purpose of the New52 costume?
This is not funny anymore. But what's infuriating me is the complete disregard for Swierczynski and Layman's work. Did they forget that 
Harley and Ivy were enemies in Gothtopia? It happened two months ago.

----------


## ImprobableQuestion

> This looks like a tribal tattoo. I don't think she is Ivy.


Some of the vines looked a little raised from the arm.

However, the next couple pics do seem to imply it's young Bruce taking Julie to Wayne Manor for the first time, perhaps after the scene from #30's opening. 

Also it seems unlikely that Ivy would appear with only two issues of ZY left. 

But thwn, it wouldn't be the first time Bruce had a relationship with a pod-person.

----------


## ImprobableQuestion

> Did they forget that Harley and Ivy were enemies in Gothtopia? It happened two months ago.


Gothtopia was a mass-hallucination, where Catwoman wore red and green tights. Not everyone was exactly in character.

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Odds are it's Ivy. She's already involved in the final act and I doubt Capullo would bother posting a pic of a random woman who just happens to have a plant looking thing on her arm. 
> 
> 
> 
> From Batman #25
> 
> ...and Riddler has used her grow formula here


Well if its Ivy all the better, as long as they use her right.....Is the Batman comic still in the past?





> Can somebody explain to Conner and Palmiotti that these are not tribal tattoos on Ivy's body and also the purpose of the New52 costume?
> This is not funny anymore. But what's infuriating me is the complete disregard for Swierczynski and Layman's work. Did they forget that 
> Harley and Ivy were enemies in Gothtopia? It happened two months ago.


Wow nice to see that in Harley that forget that Ivy NEEDS the biosuit to live.....

----------


## ImprobableQuestion

> Well if its Ivy all the better, as long as they use her right.....Is the Batman comic still in the past?


Yup. Issue 34 returns to the present. But Isely hasn't been seen since the above photo. Only references to her quick-growing plants.

----------


## retical

> Gothtopia was a mass-hallucination, where Catwoman wore red and green tights. Not everyone was exactly in character.


A hallucination create by Scarecrow and several other villains, including Harley. And its more than this. Harley kills kids and innocents in ways that would make Ivy want to hunt her down. And then its her suit and the vines and a million other details that this book "decides" to forget or ignores.

----------


## Pinsir

> A hallucination create by Scarecrow and several other villains, including Harley. And its more than this. Harley kills kids and innocents in ways that would make Ivy want to hunt her down. And then its her suit and the vines and a million other details that this book "decides" to forget or ignores.


Stop caring about continuity. It is a dark path to tread.

If the main Batman book has a Poison Ivy arc I'd get it. Few major authors do Ivy arcs.

----------


## Dylan Davison

> A hallucination create by Scarecrow and several other villains, including Harley. And its more than this. Harley kills kids and innocents in ways that would make Ivy want to hunt her down. And then its her suit and the vines and a million other details that this book "decides" to forget or ignores.


To me Harley will always be out of continuity and in actuality is most likely out of continuity. The writers have stated that there Harley is a mix of all the Harleys they like including the new52 one. To me that is them confirming that its not in continuity at all. They are telling a story they want, and that is it. Which is not a bad thing really. But I wish they would state its not in continuity at all. And at this point the book sells so well I bet they can do whatever they want with out getting okay-ed.

----------


## retical

> Stop caring about continuity. It is a dark path to tread.
> 
> If the main Batman book has a Poison Ivy arc I'd get it. Few major authors do Ivy arcs.


The fact that writers don't care to establish a continuity about Ivy shows that there are no plans to use ng other than a sidekick to Harley (who is insanely successful - so no need for a second female character to steal her fame) or as a simple background character. And we are talking about the basics here. The reason she changed her suit. This is the core point of her character after the reboot. 


Either way I'm not buying his book. It's essentially teenage fanfiction with extra cheesecake for 12-15 y.o readers.

----------


## Dylan Davison

> The fact that writers don't care to establish a continuity about Ivy shows that there are no plans to use ng other than a sidekick to Harley (who is insanely successful - so no need for a second female character to steal her fame) or as a simple background character. And we are talking about the basics here. The reason she changed her suit. This is the core point of her character after the reboot. 
> 
> 
> Either way I'm not buying his book. It's essentially teenage fanfiction with extra cheesecake for 12-15 y.o readers.


The writers are not just messing with Ivys continuity, they are messing with everyones, which again makes me think that its all out of continuity, and that they are making there own.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Just saw this on Pinterest:
> No
> 
> 
> It's part of a Femme Fatale Art Series and Poison Ivy is modeled after Game of Thrones star Natalie Dormer.
> 
> http://geektyrant.com/news/famous-ac...ale-art-series


I love this as I love Natalie Dormer and her character Margaery Tyrell from GoT. Fitting for Ivy as Margaery is a very seductive character and the House Tyrell has a rose and thorn motif. With Highgarden being the name of the seat they rule from.

----------


## Confuzzled

> 


This is great too. Would look gorgeous in the new suit.

----------


## Pinsir

> The fact that writers don't care to establish a continuity about Ivy shows that there are no plans to use ng other than a sidekick to Harley (who is insanely successful - so no need for a second female character to steal her fame) or as a simple background character. And we are talking about the basics here. The reason she changed her suit. This is the core point of her character after the reboot.


I hope you are also not the type of person who advocates authors have extreme creative liberties as well. Since the New 52 the character has had story arcs in Birds of Prey, Detective Comics, her solo, and Batgirl with a bunch of other appearances. You are going to get inconsistencies with so many authors working on her.




> Either way I'm not buying his book. It's essentially teenage fanfiction with extra cheesecake for 12-15 y.o readers.


Snyder's book is? or Harley's?

----------


## retical

> I hope you are also not the type of person who advocates authors have extreme creative liberties as well. Since the New 52 the character has had story arcs in Birds of Prey, Detective Comics, her solo, and Batgirl with a bunch of other appearances. You are going to get inconsistencies with so many authors working on her.
> 
> 
> 
> Snyder's book is? or Harley's?


I'm not following Harley's.

As for the inconsistencies part, they only appear in this book and in her (small) part in Forever Evil. 
All the other writers wrote her quite consistent wih very few variations. The fact that her suit keeps her
alive and the "symbiotic" lines of her body (and not tattoos) are core aspects of her. 

Every artist and writer respected that except the HQ team who decided to retcon everything because they
wanted to show skin. 
Does this skin serve any other purpose apart from eye candy?
Does it help the plot?

Anyway, their book, their choices. I feel bad criticizing something I will not buy so I'll end it here.

----------


## retical



----------


## ABH

^Heh, clever leaf placement on the bottom, there.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> I agree. Her new look is absolutely stunning.


I dont' think it looks bad but It's to "uniformy" for me. It looks to much as a suit and in my opinion Poison Ivy is one of those characters that is able to look like a goddess. And being barefoot and covered in leafs always helped it. Also the black "tattoo" on her face is really pointless IMO.

----------


## Dylan Davison

> I dont' think it looks bad but It's to "uniformy" for me. It looks to much as a suit and in my opinion Psylocke is one of those characters that is able to look like a goddess. And being barefoot and covered in leafs always helped it. Also the black "tattoo" on her face is really pointless IMO.


I think you mean Poison Ivy?  :P


And she is covered in leaves too. I like that she can always have plants with her now though. That suit can make plants so even in the middle of a building with no plants she can fight. And its not a tattoo, its part of the suit going up to her face.

----------


## retical

> I think you mean Poison Ivy?  :P
> 
> 
> And she is covered in leaves too. I like that she can always have plants with her now though. That suit can make plants so even in the middle of a building with no plants she can fight. And its not a tattoo, its part of the suit going up to her face.


The new suit has a purpose and a story behind it. It's not a generic leaf bikini. She look really badass now.
It's part of who she is in New52.

----------


## Cape and Cowl

My tribute to Ivy.

----------


## retical

> My tribute to Ivy.


Hey that's pretty uplifting bro. 
Well done!

----------


## retical



----------


## retical



----------


## MentalManipulator

> I think you mean Poison Ivy?  :P
> 
> 
> And she is covered in leaves too. I like that she can always have plants with her now though. That suit can make plants so even in the middle of a building with no plants she can fight. And its not a tattoo, its part of the suit going up to her face.


Teh...my bad! My obsession with Betsy leaked here. Btu anyway, I feel your arguments but I like her better the other way. And i don't think all female characters should be in a bikini and bathingsuit (I'm one that loves Psylocke in pants since she's a fighter). But I think Ivy is such a goddess and seductress that it fits her being half naked

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Teh...my bad! My obsession with Betsy leaked here. Btu anyway, I feel your arguments but I like her better the other way. And i don't think all female characters should be in a bikini and bathingsuit (I'm one that loves Psylocke in pants since she's a fighter). But I think Ivy is such a goddess and seductress that it fits her being half naked


I get what you are saying, but she could be wearing a duck suit and she could still seduces people, its a power :P

Also I think if she can seduces people while wearing more clothes, that makes her a even better seductress.

----------


## retical



----------


## retical



----------


## retical



----------


## Dylan Davison

> 


I really like this one, I am not sure why. I think it just maybe the art style lol.

----------


## retical

Things look "dry" for Poison Ivy. Ha! Pun intended.

----------


## Confuzzled

> 


It's great.

----------


## Confuzzled

Here's Ivy by one of my favorite artists, Phil Noto.

----------


## Confuzzled

By Steph Buscema:

----------


## Confuzzled

By Olivier Coipel, another one of my favorite artists right now:

----------


## retical

Nice pics Confuzzled. Phil Noto is cool but he draws some strange noses.

----------


## retical



----------


## Confuzzled

> Nice pics Confuzzled. Phil Noto is cool but he draws some strange noses.


Haha, I think his noses are cute. Here is one more, this time with Barbara:



My two favorite gals in the DC-verse!  :Big Grin:

----------


## retical

http://www.reddit.com/r/PoisonIvy/
Poison Ivy has a Reddit dedicated to her too!

----------


## retical



----------


## DetectiveStrange

How about some Hothouse love?

tumblr_mqvfixHVuL1rcmkiko1_500.jpg

----------


## Dylan Davison

> How about some Hothouse love?
> 
> tumblr_mqvfixHVuL1rcmkiko1_500.jpg


I wanted to get that as a tattoo when i was really young.

----------


## LoneNecromancer

> I wanted to get that as a tattoo when i was really young.


Why didn't you?  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## retical

> How about some Hothouse love?
> 
> tumblr_mqvfixHVuL1rcmkiko1_500.jpg


This picture rocks. So does Hothouse.
http://www.fanfilmfollies.com/movies/batman-hothouse-2
This is a fan film based on Hothouse if you haven't seen it.

----------


## gwhh

I wonder if she will ever become a good guy?  Like shemlock or diamond back did!  





> Haha, I think his noses are cute. Here is one more, this time with Barbara:
> 
> 
> 
> My two favorite gals in the DC-verse!

----------


## retical

> I wonder if she will ever become a good guy?  Like shemlock or diamond back did!


Keeping her as a villain makes no sense anymore. I loved her in Birds of Prey and it looks that there is a chance she'll eventually turn a new leaf (hah!).
Did you read Batgirl Annual 2? She appears to have more noble causes now and Simone reinvents the character after her awful portrayal in Harley Quinn
and Arkham War. It was a pleasant surprise. I'm not a big fan of Simone's work but she treated the character with respect. She has the potential to 
become DC's Emma Frost in the hands of a good writer.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> By Olivier Coipel, another one of my favorite artists right now:


My exact cup of tea here!

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Keeping her as a villain makes no sense anymore. I loved her in Birds of Prey and it looks that there is a chance she'll eventually turn a new leaf (hah!).
> Did you read Batgirl Annual 2? She appears to have more noble causes now and Simone reinvents the character after her awful portrayal in Harley Quinn
> and Arkham War. It was a pleasant surprise. I'm not a big fan of Simone's work but she treated the character with respect. She has the potential to 
> become DC's Emma Frost in the hands of a good writer.


Agreed, I don't think she should become a full on good guy, but she could be DC's Magneto or Emma Frost, both do good things, in sometimes bad ways. She needs to be on a ongoing title again, be it hers or a team book. That Batgirl issue proves it.




> Why didn't you?


Because I got smart :P I would have changed my mind on it as I got older (like I did), plus I was a kid lol.

----------


## retical

> Agreed, I don't think she should become a full on good guy, but she could be DC's Magneto or Emma Frost, both do good things, in sometimes bad ways. She needs to be on a ongoing title again, be it hers or a team book. That Batgirl issue proves it.
> 
> 
> 
> Because I got smart :P I would have changed my mind on it as I got older (like I did), plus I was a kid lol.


She can have her own agenda but going around and murdering people just for the lulz or teaming up with other villains doesn't make sense. And I can't see why she can't be i.e a member of BoP or another team. 
And yeah, the Batgirl issue proves that she needs more appearances. I think she is in this weeks Harley Quinn but I don't like how she's written there. Most of the people I talk to in my LCS agree. 
I guess we'll have to wait for someone like Simone again to write something good with Ivy. Was surprised by how good the annual was.

----------


## ABH

A little less traditional, but I thought this was a cool piece:

----------


## Dylan Davison

Oh that is pretty cool. 

So I guess Gotham City Sirens is getting a huge TPB so check that out guys. If you don't own it, get it then. Ivy is great in that book.

----------


## Confuzzled

Did you guys check out the lettered preview of Harley Quinn #7. Ivy's characterisation is not totally repugnant. The artwork leaves a lot to be desired though.

----------


## retical

> Did you guys check out the lettered preview of Harley Quinn #7. Ivy's characterisation is not totally repugnant. The artwork leaves a lot to be desired though.


My problem with this book is that it's not funny. Perhaps the team behind a book can write a good Harley Quinn but they write a horrible Ivy. They just don't get the character. In the previous issue Ivy was in underwear, now she is in swimsuit. It's pretty clear who the target audience is. And I'm starting to get bored of Harley. She appears everywhere. I think that her comic will come out twice a month, plus Suicide Squad. DC forgot all about Catwoman, Wonder Woman, Batwoman, Batgirl, Ivy and focuses just on Harley.

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Did you guys check out the lettered preview of Harley Quinn #7. Ivy's characterisation is not totally repugnant. The artwork leaves a lot to be desired though.


I won't forgive them for that beaver joke. But I will look at the preview. But to me because of what they said about how this Harley is the best of all of the favorite Harleys (including the new52 one) together it will always be out of continuity.


Edit: Read it, not bad. At least she is not hitting are Harley. I think they are getting better at it. But I still think its out of continuity and will always think that. Harley is different in this then she has been anywhere else. And Ivy needs that biosuit to live, her taking it off for underwear or swimsuit does not fit.

Harley is DC's Deadpool now, thats all she is. Which is cool, I love Harley. But don't care for the changes they have done in her book.

----------


## OBrianTallent

I would love for Ivy to at least get a limited series of her own.  She's an intriguing character with surprisingly tons of untapped potential.

----------


## retical

> I would love for Ivy to at least get a limited series of her own.  She's an intriguing character with surprisingly tons of untapped potential.


I second this. After Batgirl Annual, I got a crave for more antihero Ivy.
Editorial seems to dislike her for some reason.

----------


## Dylan Davison

I don't think they dislike her haha. Otherwise they would never use her. Which they are, just not a lot. This is not some vendetta against Ivy. If we start thinking like that we look like crazy fan boys/girls haha. They may just not know what to do with her, or maybe not a lot of writers want to use her.

But I agree, she needs a series or at least a limited mini series of her own. Gail did a great job (as well as Duane) setting her up and building her up. Lets hope at least that keeps going.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I would love for Ivy to at least get a limited series of her own.  She's an intriguing character with surprisingly tons of untapped potential.


Preach. There is so much that can be done with her that hasn't been done yet. It's crazy. I think she has run her course in the capacity of a pure loony villain, making it that much more important to evolve her into a complex anti-heroine.

----------


## retical

Harley Quinn was very bad this week. Conner and Palmiotti can't write Poison Ivy and the quality of the book is deteriorating fast. Cheap, bland jokes and Crossed gore. Harley and Pamela sound very stupid. Is it so hard for them to read some Poison Ivy stories first and then write the character? This is not Pamela. Doesn't look like Ivy, doesn't sound like Ivy, doesn't act like Ivy. 0/10.

----------


## Vinsanity

I would like to see Ivy in Grayson for some reason. I don't know how to explain it but I think it could work.

----------


## retical

> I would like to see Ivy in Grayson for some reason. I don't know how to explain it but I think it could work.


Ivy needs a book right now. And a capable writer. Simone raised the bar and Conner/Palmiotti write a mediocre/bad Ivy. Still waiting for Snyder et co to use her in Batman or Batman Eternal. Batgirl Annual was a big surprise and proved that Poison Ivy needs a book. Now.

----------


## Enigmatic Undead



----------


## The Red Monk

> I second this. After Batgirl Annual, I got a crave for more antihero Ivy.
> Editorial seems to dislike her for some reason.


No, no, no.

I am all for a more complex characterization of Ivy, but I would loathe for her to become an anti-heroine.

Anti-heroine Ivy has the potential to be more of a disaster than anti-heroine Catwoman has been.

Not to mention that Batman already lacks good female villains, no need to take away the only great one that he's got.

----------


## retical

> No, no, no.
> 
> I am all for a more complex characterization of Ivy, but I would loathe for her to become an anti-heroine.
> 
> Anti-heroine Ivy has the potential to be more of a disaster than anti-heroine Catwoman has been.
> 
> Not to mention that Batman already lacks good female villains, no need to take away the only great one that he's got.


She works better as an antihero. Her best stories are where she is an antihero. 
Look at how good she was in Batgirl Annual or Birds of Prey and how horribly she as written in Forever Evil. 
Straight out villain Ivy is boring as hell.
There are a lot of ways to portray an antihero. She doesn't have to become Catwoman.

----------


## robert

I've never been a huge Ive fan, but the Batgirl Annual made me wanna read more of this Ivy. Don't know if an ongoing will work, but maybe some season themed mini series would do, or 4 minis Ivy:Spring, Ivy:Summer, Ivy:Autumn and Ivy:Winter.

----------


## retical

> I've never been a huge Ive fan, but the Batgirl Annual made me wanna read more of this Ivy. Don't know if an ongoing will work, but maybe some season themed mini series would do, or 4 minis Ivy:Spring, Ivy:Summer, Ivy:Autumn and Ivy:Winter.


That's a great idea!

----------


## The Red Monk

> She works better as an antihero. Her best stories are where she is an antihero. 
> Look at how good she was in Batgirl Annual or Birds of Prey and how horribly she as written in Forever Evil. 
> Straight out villain Ivy is boring as hell.
> There are a lot of ways to portray an antihero. She doesn't have to become Catwoman.


If you read my post properly, you'd have noticed I said:

*I am all for a more complex characterization of Ivy*

But that does not necessitate Ivy to become an anti-heroine, and I never said she should become a straight-out villain. _Forever Evil_ is just a generally poorly-written story, and using it as the go-to for why Ivy should become an anti-heroine is really not helping your case. I could just as easily point to it and say that Batman and Catwoman make a terrible couple in general because of how their characters have been written there, when that's observably not true as evidenced by the amount of good stories featuring a Batman/Catwoman relationship.

Also, your assertion that "her best stories are where she is an antihero" is not true. _Gotham City Sirens_ featured an anti-heroine Poison Ivy, and was an absolutely terrible comic with a dreadful characterization of Ivy. By comparison, _B:TAS_ had some great stories with a straight-up villainous (but still multi-dimensional) Poison Ivy.

I haven't read New 52 _Birds Of Prey_, but you are the first person I've come across who thinks Ivy was actually written well in that comic.

Anti-Hero Catwoman: Robin-Hood-esque thief who only steals from those who "deserve" it and never harms the innocent.

Anti-Hero Poison Ivy: Eco-Warrioress who only harms those that "harm the environment" and never harms the innocent.

Slightly varying motivations, but general concept is the same.

----------


## retical

> If you read my post properly, you'd have noticed I said:
> 
> *I am all for a more complex characterization of Ivy*
> 
> But that does not necessitate Ivy to become an anti-heroine, and I never said she should become a straight-out villain. _Forever Evil_ is just a generally poorly-written story, and using it as the go-to for why Ivy should become an anti-heroine is really not helping your case. I could just as easily point to it and say that Batman and Catwoman make a terrible couple in general because of how their characters have been written there, when that's observably not true as evidenced by the amount of good stories featuring a Batman/Catwoman relationship.
> 
> Also, your assertion that "her best stories are where she is an antihero" is not true. _Gotham City Sirens_ featured an anti-heroine Poison Ivy, and was an absolutely terrible comic with a dreadful characterization of Ivy. By comparison, _B:TAS_ had some great stories with a straight-up villainous (but still multi-dimensional) Poison Ivy.
> 
> I haven't read New 52 _Birds Of Prey_, but you are the first person I've come across who thinks Ivy was actually written well in that comic.
> ...



Ok it's a bit late and I'm just expressing my opinion. I don't want to argue but Eco-Warrioress who only harms those that "harm the environment" and never harms the innocent sounds really cool. Something like Punisher. Going on a rampage against innocent doesn't further her cause. She is not Ras. Either way. to each his own opinion. Let's agree to disagree.

----------


## The Red Monk

> Ok it's a bit late and I'm just expressing my opinion. I don't want to argue *but Eco-Warrioress who only harms those that "harm the environment" and never harms the innocent sounds really cool*. Something like Punisher. Going on a rampage against innocent doesn't further her cause. She is not Ras. Either way. to each his own opinion. Let's agree to disagree.


It _does_ sound interesting on paper, but my point is that it's almost the same thing DC did with Catwoman (with eco-vigilantism swapped out for the Robin Hood act), and that did not turn out so well for Catwoman's character in the long run, and I'd hate for a similar thing to happen to Poison Ivy.

But yeah, each to his own.

----------


## Pinsir

I thought the art for the book was good. I stopped reading Harley halfway through number one so I'm not a fan of the book.

----------


## Andrew Eldritch

> Editorial seems to dislike her for some reason.


Just because she's not being written the way you THINK it should be, doesn't mean that editorial "dislike her".




> Not to mention that Batman already lacks good female villains, no need to take away the only great one that he's got.


EXACTLY!

----------


## retical

> Just because she's not being written the way you THINK it should be, doesn't mean that editorial "dislike her".
> 
> 
> 
> EXACTLY!


My ME is not that big to require a capital YOU, so chill out.
And Red Monk gave a clear and good answer which I respected, no need for white knights.
Let's keep it cool in here.

----------


## ABH

I don't really care for Anti-Hero Ivy, but if DC were to ever put her (back) in the Suicide Squad, then something like that _might_ work.

----------


## retical

> I don't really care for Anti-Hero Ivy, but if DC were to ever put her (back) in the Suicide Squad, then something like that _might_ work.


Ivy taking orders is a bit ... I don't know. I like her more independent. She was in Suicide Squad btw!
I haven't read the comic. Can't find it in a decent quality for my collection.

----------


## Andrew Eldritch

> Let's keep it cool in here.


But i'm "cool". I just have a different opinion of yours.

----------


## ABH

> Ivy taking orders is a bit ... I don't know. I like her more independent.


Well, with the Squad, it's not really "taking orders" willingly... plus, with Harley there, I can see her being slightly more agreeable. 




> She was in Suicide Squad btw! I haven't read the comic. Can't find it in a decent quality for my collection.


Yeah, I haven't read her old Squad appearances, but I do think it _could_ work in the New 52.

----------


## Confuzzled

> If you read my post properly, you'd have noticed I said:
> 
> *I am all for a more complex characterization of Ivy*
> 
> But that does not necessitate Ivy to become an anti-heroine, and I never said she should become a straight-out villain. _Forever Evil_ is just a generally poorly-written story, and using it as the go-to for why Ivy should become an anti-heroine is really not helping your case. I could just as easily point to it and say that Batman and Catwoman make a terrible couple in general because of how their characters have been written there, when that's observably not true as evidenced by the amount of good stories featuring a Batman/Catwoman relationship.
> 
> Also, your assertion that "her best stories are where she is an antihero" is not true. _Gotham City Sirens_ featured an anti-heroine Poison Ivy, and was an absolutely terrible comic with a dreadful characterization of Ivy. By comparison, _B:TAS_ had some great stories with a straight-up villainous (but still multi-dimensional) Poison Ivy.
> 
> I haven't read New 52 _Birds Of Prey_, but you are the first person I've come across who thinks Ivy was actually written well in that comic.
> ...


What? People really liked BoP Ivy, especially in #3.

Also,  the best Ivy stories have always been anti-heroine like No Man's Land, Cast Shadows and the one-shot that came in 1997 to coincide with the release of Batman & Robin. Using Gotham City Sirens to disprove the notion that Ivy works as an anti-heroine is the same thing you are accusing retical of doing with Forever Evil.

----------


## retical

> What? People really liked BoP Ivy, especially in #3.
> 
> Also,  the best Ivy stories have always been anti-heroine like No Man's Land, Cast Shadows and the one-shot that came in 1997 to coincide with the release of Batman & Robin. Using Gotham City Sirens to disprove the notion that Ivy works as an anti-heroine is the same thing you are accusing retical of doing with Forever Evil.


And of course Birds of Prey, Gothtopia, Batgirl Annual. 
In the end it's all about personal opinion 
but 
it is a fact that she fits the "antihero" role better than any other DC character. 
After Batgirl Annual even better than Catwoman.
Of course: personal opinions.

----------


## RLAAMJR.

Poison Ivy

----------


## Dylan Davison

Maybe anti-hero is the wrong word. She does good, she thinks she is doing the right thing. She is just killing people to do it. She may not be a full on Anti-hero, but she can save people, and never harms innocent people. So she is close to an anti-hero.

She has moved past the title of "just a bat villain" though. She has grown and most of us want her to keep growing. Nothing is wrong with her being a bat villain once i a while, like Catwoman. But she has grown past that title and we should not have to go back to a once in a blue moon villain. Also you dont have to be full on good or a anti-hero to get a ongoing or even join a team, so she can still do that. And be in Batman once in awhile.




> I haven't read New 52 _Birds Of Prey_, but you are the first person I've come across who thinks Ivy was actually written well in that comic.


Really? Most of us on here really love Duane's run on the character. Me being one of them.




> Yeah, I haven't read her old Squad appearances, but I do think it _could_ work in the New 52.


I have read that stuff, and I really liked it. I would not mind her joining Suicide Squad at all. Its a ongoing title I could see her in. Plus it would be nice to she her work with the real new52 Harley.

----------


## retical

> Maybe anti-hero is the wrong word. She does good, she thinks she is doing the right thing. She is just killing people to do it. She may not be a full on Anti-hero, but she can save people, and never harms innocent people. So she is close to an anti-hero.
> 
> She has moved past the title of "just a bat villain" though. She has grown and most of us want her to keep growing. Nothing is wrong with her being a bat villain once i a while, like Catwoman. But she has grown past that title and we should not have to go back to a once in a blue moon villain. Also you dont have to be full on good or a anti-hero to get a ongoing or even join a team, so she can still do that. And be in Batman once in awhile.
> 
> 
> 
> Really? Most of us on here really love Duane's run on the character. Me being one of them.
> 
> 
> I have read that stuff, and I really liked it. I would not mind her joining Suicide Squad at all. Its a ongoing title I could see her in. Plus it would be nice to she her work with the real new52 Harley.



I would like to see her going against Suicide Squad Harley (and taking her small revenge for all those times Harley betrayed her hahaha).
I'd like to see her taking down Harley for murdering all those kids. But I guess DC wants to leave this behind.

----------


## Pinsir

I just had a weird Poison Ivy dream

> was there on Watchtower
> Darkseid and a bunch of other villains escape from a prison there, however it was implied that Ivy here was good and helped the heroes in this situation
> heroes are eventually over run, many captured
> turns out that Ivy was a robot, real Ivy on Earth
> real Ivy returns t watchtower to see whats going on, accidentally meets Darkseid
> thinks Darkseid is going to vaporize her, but ignores her
> when she asks why he says he has no reason to attack a minor user in the Power Cosmic (his words)
> takes this as a reason to attack the rest of the JL

END

----------


## Bookem Danno

Runty Shrimbo appreciates her. 
GROW.jpg

----------


## Creeper75

First post!

As a Batman fan ,I love Poison Ivy. I think since she changed from being a mind controller to a all powerful being like Swamp thing, she started to be her own character rather than just a Batman villain, the next step in her evolution was to became an anti hero

Not enough mad to be a full time  Batman villain, works better as a misguided woman, I think

----------


## tabo61

Wonder if she play's a role in Arkham Knight?

----------


## retical

> First post!
> 
> As a Batman fan ,I love Poison Ivy. I think since she changed from being a mind controller to a all powerful being like Swamp thing, she started to be her own character rather than just a Batman villain, the next step in her evolution was to became an anti hero
> 
> Not enough mad to be a full time  Batman villain, works better as a misguided woman, I think


I couldn't have said it better myself! It's time for Ivy to play a bigger part in Gotham. I enjoy her slow transformation to an antihero in New52 but she doesn't have many appearances.

----------


## retical

> I just had a weird Poison Ivy dream
> 
> > was there on Watchtower
> > Darkseid and a bunch of other villains escape from a prison there, however it was implied that Ivy here was good and helped the heroes in this situation
> > heroes are eventually over run, many captured
> > turns out that Ivy was a robot, real Ivy on Earth
> > real Ivy returns t watchtower to see whats going on, accidentally meets Darkseid
> > thinks Darkseid is going to vaporize her, but ignores her
> > when she asks why he says he has no reason to attack a minor user in the Power Cosmic (his words)
> ...


Weird dream!

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Wonder if she play's a role in Arkham Knight?


I would like her too, her role in Arkham City was so small. I want her to have a bigger role in Arkham Knight.

----------


## retical



----------


## retical

Witchblade?

----------


## retical



----------


## nepenthes

^ Wow. Now that's more like it!

----------


## Dylan Davison

> ^ Wow. Now that's more like it!


Agreed! See Ivy can looks sexy while not showing off her whole body.

----------


## nepenthes

> Agreed! See Ivy can looks sexy *while not showing off her whole body*.


That and the proportions. A 100x more attractive than any other pic in this thread.

----------


## robert

Apropos proportions: isn't her head too small and the hands too big?

----------


## retical

> That and the proportions. A 100x more attractive than any other pic in this thread.


Exactly. She looks more human, more natural.

----------


## Confuzzled

> 


I love it. Looks like a piece by Patrick Nagel.

----------


## Green Ghost

Poison Ivy has her own character poster for Gotham:


It is cool that she's in the show an getting attention, but I am not that happy about the name-change...and the blue eyes.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> Poison Ivy has her own character poster for Gotham:
> 
> 
> It is cool that she's in the show an getting attention, but I am not that happy about the name-change...and the blue eyes.


 The name change is really disappointing and disrespectful. Although I'm curios to see how they will portray her

----------


## ABH

> It is cool that she's in the show an getting attention, but I am not that happy about the name-change...and the blue eyes.





> The name change is really disappointing and disrespectful. Although I'm curios to see how they will portray her


I think they changed her name so that they can actually call her "Ivy" in the show, and it make sense.

----------


## Bat007007

> The name change is really disappointing and disrespectful. Although I'm curios to see how they will portray her


I am really starting to dislike all things regarding to live action since they cannot respect comic book characters. I am more an animation guy anyway where characters are not shame for who they are and can be who they are.

----------


## Bat007007

> I think they changed her name so that they can actually call her "Ivy" in the show, and it make sense.


I understand your point but they could have call her Pamela Ivy Lillian Isley or Pamela Ivy Isley instead and use the ''Ivy'' as some kind of name to use for people friendly to Poison Ivy. But no lest change things for the sake of changing things.

----------


## nepenthes

The new name is unfortunate and unnecessary. I always thought Pamela Isley had a really nice ring to it and they could have just added Ivy in between as nickname or something. 

Anyway, concept artist Miles Steve created this for Batman & Robin. Fantastic

----------


## Dylan Davison

Thats really interesting art, very ummm sharp haha.

As far as the name thing, it does bug me, but not that much. They could have done it because the name Pamela is not commonly know to well currently by non batman fans. But I would love to had her keep her name.

----------


## Confuzzled

I don't get how "Pamela Isley" is any less recognizable than "Oswald Cobblepot".  By that logic they should have renamed him Pengy McWengy.

----------


## retical

The new name bothers me. DC can't understand that the character is popular and recognisable.

----------


## Dylan Davison

I really think thats the problem, I was not saying that that name is less recognizable, just that the creators (which don't have a lot to do with dc, I think it was a writers move, not DC themselves, I think they have little to do with this show other then checking things and stuff like that) and the writers don't think the name is recognizable.

----------


## retical

> The new name is unfortunate and unnecessary. I always thought Pamela Isley had a really nice ring to it and they could have just added Ivy in between as nickname or something. 
> 
> Anyway, concept artist Miles Steve created this for Batman & Robin. Fantastic


Don't touch me I'm poison!

----------


## retical



----------


## Enigmatic Undead



----------


## MentalManipulator

> I understand your point but they could have call her Pamela Ivy Lillian Isley or Pamela Ivy Isley instead and use the ''Ivy'' as some kind of name to use for people friendly to Poison Ivy. But no lest change things for the sake of changing things.


Yes! This! Ivy as a nickname or middle name would be perfect!

----------


## retical



----------


## Confuzzled

> The new name is unfortunate and unnecessary. I always thought Pamela Isley had a really nice ring to it and they could have just added Ivy in between as nickname or something. 
> 
> Anyway, concept artist Miles Steve created this for Batman & Robin. Fantastic


It's Mad Max Ivy!  :Big Grin:

----------


## MrStatham

> The new name is unfortunate and unnecessary. I always thought Pamela Isley had a really nice ring to it and they could have just added Ivy in between as nickname or something. 
> 
> Anyway, concept artist Miles Steve created this for Batman & Robin. Fantastic


Wow.. They.. Ah, they really took the obsession with putting nipples on all the costumes too far at one point, didn't they?

----------


## retical



----------


## Dylan Davison

I like the Rose's in the hair.

Also


So guys, do you think thats Poison Ivy? If so what do you think?

I am hoping its not. I don't care for how she looks and she is missing the costume that she has in the new52.

----------


## ABH

That's probably Ivy, but it's just one artist's interpretation, so I wouldn't be too worried about it.

----------


## Dylan Davison

> That's probably Ivy, but it's just one artist's interpretation, so I wouldn't be too worried about it.


Ya, but even in Harley she is mostly in the new 52 outfit.

Got a tweet from the artist:

Shawn Crystal ‏@shawncrystal  37m
@dylandavison Yes thats her on the cover. Is she inside the book? Cant really say….sorry!

----------


## retical

> I like the Rose's in the hair.
> 
> Also
> 
> 
> So guys, do you think thats Poison Ivy? If so what do you think?
> 
> I am hoping its not. I don't care for how she looks and she is missing the costume that she has in the new52.



Don't really care about psycho Ivy after her appearance in Batgirl Annual. It smells like another Arkham War fiasco.

----------


## Blackblood

> 


She has different color in hair and her costume doesn't refer to a typical Poison Ivy costume...

It doesn't matter...I'm in love...

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Don't really care about psycho Ivy after her appearance in Batgirl Annual. It smells like another Arkham War fiasco.


Well she does have episodes of crazy, due to her SADs. So I don't mind her getting help and being crazy sometimes. But she should not be a hard core bad guy who wants to kill everyone anymore. She has moved past that. And if that happened it would be going backwards.

----------


## Blackblood

Poison Ivy Uma Thurman.jpg

What is your opinion about Uma Thurman's Poison Ivy character?

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Poison Ivy Uma Thurman.jpg
> 
> What is your opinion about Uma Thurman's Poison Ivy character?


I thought she did well and worked with what she was given (which was really not a great script) and I like her Poison Ivy.

----------


## retical

> I thought she did well and worked with what she was given (which was really not a great script) and I like her Poison Ivy.


I agree. She was good but the script was really bad.

----------


## retical

Would love to see a "chubbier" Ivy

----------


## nepenthes

> Would love to see a "chubbier" Ivy


Agreed. She should have fertile hips!  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Green Ghost

> Ya, but even in Harley she is mostly in the new 52 outfit.
> 
> Got a tweet from the artist:
> 
> Shawn Crystal ‏@shawncrystal  37m
> @dylandavison Yes thats her on the cover. Is she inside the book? Cant really say….sorry!


First: Thanks for asking him!

Second: Ugh...I don't want her in an Arkham book. A few years back I would've loved to see her in an ongoing monthly Arkham book, but not now. I was hoping they would get her out of Gotham, because it makes nealy no sense for the character to stay there. 

Also, there is nothing that says Poison Ivy on the cover, not even a leaf in her hair...are they already getting rid of her new52 look?


I am just sad and angry but also tired to see how she is treated. 

Just look how hard they are trying to make Deathstroke and Harley work/popular! They are putting them in EVERYTHING: multiple (!!!) video-games, multiple tv-shows (arrow & beware the Batman for deathstroke), animated movies, multiple comics (both in suicide squad and Deathstroke just got his second (!) solo book in the new52 announced) and a lot more...
They also did this with Katana, but it looks like they gave up on her (failed solo-book/ cancelled JLA book/ cancelled TV-Show with Beware the Batman)...oh no wait, they just cast her in Arrow.

It is just frustraiting that you see the same characters over and over again and getting their own titles and other stuff, but Ivy still get wasted as token villain when you need some hottie with cool powers.

----------


## retical

> First: Thanks for asking him!
> 
> Second: Ugh...I don't want her in an Arkham book. A few years back I would've loved to see her in an ongoing monthly Arkham book, but not now. I was hoping they would get her out of Gotham, because it makes nealy no sense for the character to stay there. 
> 
> Also, there is nothing that says Poison Ivy on the cover, not even a leaf in her hair...are they already getting rid of her new52 look?
> 
> 
> I am just sad and angry but also tired to see how she is treated. 
> 
> ...


I agree. Dc is really pushing Deathstroke and Harley. They are literally everywhere these days. Harley has two ongoings and so will Deathstroke. And now they will retcon everything again and turn her into a psycho once more.

----------


## Dylan Davison

> First: Thanks for asking him!
> 
> Second: Ugh...I don't want her in an Arkham book. A few years back I would've loved to see her in an ongoing monthly Arkham book, but not now. I was hoping they would get her out of Gotham, because it makes nealy no sense for the character to stay there. 
> 
> Also, there is nothing that says Poison Ivy on the cover, not even a leaf in her hair...are they already getting rid of her new52 look?
> 
> 
> I am just sad and angry but also tired to see how she is treated. 
> 
> ...


Harley is the deadpool of DC, so of course she is in everything, and Deathstroke and the less crazy Deadpool of DC (even though Slade came first). I hope that is just on the cover and she keeps the outfit inside the story at least. Cause you know, she needs it, to live. I am going to go to SDCC and let them know everything that is wrong. They have a powerful character in Ivy and they are wasting her. She has moved past the crazy (unless its during the right season lol). So I hope this ongoing shows her well off and a more anti-hero, maybe even helping batman. 

But I dont have high hopes.

----------


## retical

> Harley is the deadpool of DC, so of course she is in everything, and Deathstroke and the less crazy Deadpool of DC (even though Slade came first). I hope that is just on the cover and she keeps the outfit inside the story at least. Cause you know, she needs it, to live. I am going to go to SDCC and let them know everything that is wrong. They have a powerful character in Ivy and they are wasting her. She has moved past the crazy (unless its during the right season lol). So I hope this ongoing shows her well off and a more anti-hero, maybe even helping batman. 
> 
> But I dont have high hopes.


I've seen the guests in SDCC Who are you gonna ask? Conner/Palmiotti are gonna say "Yo bro,we DO write Poison Ivy, buy our comic and don't be a loser" and I doubt Snyder wants to use her (he already used her in Swamp Thing and in a cameo in Zero Year).

I think only someone like Simone can do justice to the character. Not a big fan of her Batgirl run but the Annual with Poison Ivy was phenomenal.

----------


## Green Ghost

Hope you can ask some questions there Power Torch, looking forward to it!

----------


## Green Ghost

And please ask Palmiotti to never write Poison Ivy ever again ;P

He has written two of the worst characterizations of Ivy that come to my mind (Harley Quinn #2 and Ame Comi, where she is a henchmen for Duela Dent, who slaps Ivy for saying something "stupid" and she obeys)

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Hope you can ask some questions there Power Torch, looking forward to it!


I will for sure post what I learn here, asap.

----------


## retical

> I will for sure post what I learn here, asap.


Have a great time in SDCC, Power Torch! From now on you are the official ambassador of this thread!

----------


## Green Ghost

> Have a great time in SDCC, Power Torch! From now on you are the official ambassador of this thread!


Oh yeah!  :Big Grin:

----------


## Dylan Davison

> I've seen the guests in SDCC Who are you gonna ask? Conner/Palmiotti are gonna say "Yo bro,we DO write Poison Ivy, buy our comic and don't be a loser" and I doubt Snyder wants to use her (he already used her in Swamp Thing and in a cameo in Zero Year).
> 
> I think only someone like Simone can do justice to the character. Not a big fan of her Batgirl run but the Annual with Poison Ivy was phenomenal.


There is no way you could have seen all the guests, the panels are not even out yet, what you saw was the special guests, and thats not everyone, just the big names that are coming so far. But I will ask everyone I can.



> Have a great time in SDCC, Power Torch! From now on you are the official ambassador of this thread!


Thanks, haha I will try my hardest.

----------


## retical

lulz

----------


## retical

New costume goodness

----------


## Green Ghost

New 'Dressed to Kill' Poison Ivy costume for the Infinite Crisis game:

----------


## retical



----------


## retical

More cosplay

----------


## RLAAMJR.

Poison ivy fans, please help Posion Ivy win here: http://community.comicbookresources....ns-Edition-2-0

----------


## retical



----------


## RLAAMJR.

Poison Ivy won the DC New 52 Survivor Game!  :Smile: 

http://community.comicbookresources....194#post300194

----------


## Dylan Davison

So as many of you may or may not know Gail is most likely working on a new Secret Six title. And some fans think Poison Ivy would be perfect for it. What do you guys think?

----------


## Punisher007

I like the idea.

----------


## ABH

Yeah, I think it makes more sense than Ivy being with the Birds.

----------


## Dylan Davison

Well I don't know. I liked her with the Birds, and the plans Duane had were going to make her make since. But we never got to see them. But ya I like the sound of her on the Secret Six title or on Suicide Squad too, if she ended up on that title I would be ok with it.

----------


## ABH

Yeah, maybe she worked well on Birds (I didn't pay much attention), but I just mean in general -- Poison Ivy being part of the Secret Six or Suicide Squad (again) just sounds better on paper.

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Yeah, maybe she worked well on Birds (I didn't pay much attention), but I just mean in general -- Poison Ivy being part of the Secret Six or Suicide Squad (again) just sounds better on paper.


Oh agreed, it sounds way better on paper. I love her old stuff on Suicide Squad it was a different kinda Ivy, and it was a great bunch of arcs. So I would be happy to see her on that book. Or S6.

----------


## retical

> Oh agreed, it sounds way better on paper. I love her old stuff on Suicide Squad it was a different kinda Ivy, and it was a great bunch of arcs. So I would be happy to see her on that book. Or S6.


Ivy needs to be part of a book. Secret Six could be the one and remember that Simone wrote a very good Ivy. But Suicide Squad is too grimdark and edgy for me.

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Ivy needs to be part of a book. Secret Six could be the one and remember that Simone wrote a very good Ivy. But Suicide Squad is too grimdark and edgy for me.


Well the current one is, lol. But Ivy has been dark and grim before. But if a new writer came aboard maybe that would help.

----------


## retical

Ivy fitted perfectly in Birds of Prey. Kicking her out of the team never made any sense.
Simone tried to explain what happened but still Duane's run was one of the best examples of Poison Ivy in New52.

----------


## RubberLotus

I'm way, _way_ behind on Poison Ivy. Someone tell me, is Gaiman's origin for her worth reading?

----------


## Dylan Davison

> I'm way, _way_ behind on Poison Ivy. Someone tell me, is Gaiman's origin for her worth reading?


Do you mean DC’s Secret Origins with Green Lantern and Poison Ivy? Its good. I mean I love Gaiman's work, so if you can read it go ahead. But I am not sure if its her current origin right now.

----------


## Pinsir

> Do you mean DC’s Secret Origins with Green Lantern and Poison Ivy? Its good. I mean I love Gaiman's work, so if you can read it go ahead. But I am not sure if its her current origin right now.


It's not. I read the issue in question and though I do remember it and is not on my favourite list.

----------


## retical

> So as many of you may or may not know Gail is most likely working on a new Secret Six title. And some fans think Poison Ivy would be perfect for it. What do you guys think?




Gail Simone said that the new book has nothing to do with Ivy. How long till she is officially M.I.A? LOL!
But seriously I start missing Pre-52 where at least she had more often appearances. I guess the current
Editorial doesn't want to use the character in anything which kinda sucks. 

Power Torch, since you are the officiall Ivy ambassador in SDCC, I expect you to do some deep investigation
on this subject.

----------


## Vesper

Could someone compile for me an extensive list of Poison Ivy essentials. I've always been a huge fan of the character, but have read little regarding Ms. Isley. Most of my knowledge stems from media (I'm well aware she's nothing like Uma Thurman's god-awful rendition of Poison Ivy), and the few appearances she made in the New 52's "Birds of Prey". Thanks in advance darlings.

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Gail Simone said that the new book has nothing to do with Ivy. How long till she is officially M.I.A? LOL!
> But seriously I start missing Pre-52 where at least she had more often appearances. I guess the current
> Editorial doesn't want to use the character in anything which kinda sucks. 
> 
> Power Torch, since you are the officiall Ivy ambassador in SDCC, I expect you to do some deep investigation
> on this subject.


Where was this said? I am really sad. She was made for that team. She is not MIA she is most likely going to be in Arkham Manor...which well. Is something.

But don't worry. I plan on going to the Bat panel to try to get our voices heard.




> Could someone compile for me an extensive list of Poison Ivy essentials. I've always been a huge fan of the character, but have read little regarding Ms. Isley. Most of my knowledge stems from media (I'm well aware she's nothing like Uma Thurman's god-awful rendition of Poison Ivy), and the few appearances she made in the New 52's "Birds of Prey". Thanks in advance darlings.


I actually have a list of every comic she has been in (that she was a main focus or in it for more then a bit at least) pre-52. Later tomorrow I will make a list of what I think are essentials to her for ya.

----------


## retical

> Where was this said? I am really sad. She was made for that team. She is not MIA she is most likely going to be in Arkham Manor...which well. Is something.
> 
> But don't worry. I plan on going to the Bat panel to try to get our voices heard.
> 
> 
> 
> I actually have a list of every comic she has been in (that she was a main focus or in it for more then a bit at least) pre-52. Later tomorrow I will make a list of what I think are essentials to her for ya.


It's on her Tumblr page. As for Arkham Manor 

_Arkham’s madness comes home in ARKHAM MANOR! A bold new series brought to you by the mad minds of Gerry Duggan (Deadpool, Nova) and Shawn Crystal (Deadpool, Wolverine and the X-Men). When catastrophe strikes Arkham Asylum, where will Gotham City house the world’s most dangerous criminals, and when inmates are found murdered, what is Batman prepared to do in search of justice? ARKHAM MANOR arrives on October 22nd._

What I expect is another Arkham Wars.

----------


## Dylan Davison

> It's on her Tumblr page. As for Arkham Manor 
> 
> _Arkham’s madness comes home in ARKHAM MANOR! A bold new series brought to you by the mad minds of Gerry Duggan (Deadpool, Nova) and Shawn Crystal (Deadpool, Wolverine and the X-Men). When catastrophe strikes Arkham Asylum, where will Gotham City house the world’s most dangerous criminals, and when inmates are found murdered, what is Batman prepared to do in search of justice? ARKHAM MANOR arrives on October 22nd._
> 
> What I expect is another Arkham Wars.


Bummer, she said that was her favorite issue of her Batgirl run, I was so sure she would fit in that series. 

Well last we did see of Ivy she was sent to Arkham (in Batgirl) so I guess it fits thats she would be in Arkham during all this. I just hope the do right by her, put in the bio suit, make her on the "good" side somewhat, at least not on the side of the super killers. If she shows up that is. While that is her on the cover, maybe she is not inside.

----------


## Vesper

> Where was this said? I am really sad. She was made for that team. She is not MIA she is most likely going to be in Arkham Manor...which well. Is something.
> 
> But don't worry. I plan on going to the Bat panel to try to get our voices heard.
> 
> 
> 
> I actually have a list of every comic she has been in (that she was a main focus or in it for more then a bit at least) pre-52. Later tomorrow I will make a list of what I think are essentials to her for ya.


Thanks love. I really appreciate you taking the time out to help me familiarize myself even more with Poison Ivy.

----------


## Confuzzled

There is a planned Secret Six and Ivy is NOT in it? Aw.  :Frown:  She and Starling would've been perfect!




> Could someone compile for me an extensive list of Poison Ivy essentials. I've always been a huge fan of the character, but have read little regarding Ms. Isley. Most of my knowledge stems from media (I'm well aware she's nothing like Uma Thurman's god-awful rendition of Poison Ivy), and the few appearances she made in the New 52's "Birds of Prey". Thanks in advance darlings.


From the top of my head:

Batman and Poison Ivy: Cast Shadows by Ann Nocenti
Batman: Poison Ivy (1997 one-shot) by John Francis Moore and Brian Apthorp
Pretty much all of her appearances during No Man's Land, but especially the "Fruit of the Earth" three-parter found in Batman: Shadow of the Bat #88, Batman #568 and Detective Comics #735 respectively
Black Orchid by Neil Gaiman and Dave McKean (Ivy just has a little more than a cameo here but it's to die for)

----------


## Green Ghost

Some good infos on Poison Ivy's name-change and general direction for Gotham TV-show (contains some Spoilers):




> "Comic book fans have expressed frustration that while every other Batman character has the same name we know from the comics, Poison Ivy stands out because she is named Ivy Pepper, not Pamela Isley. I asked Heller why that is and he gave me an answer he cautioned did delve into spoilers.
> 
> "Its really about being able to tell the secret histories of these stories. If you just re-tell stories exactly as theyve been told before, whilst youre being true to the created mythology, youre not really adding anything to it. So you have to find ways of finding more. And in this case, weve set up a situation in which Ivy Pepper, her mom is sick, her dad is dead Shes going to go to the orphanage. And shes a nice young girl; relatively undamaged. And she will find people to adopt her. And then we will start on the Poison Ivy story that people are familiar with."
> 
> While Heller didn't elaborate from there, there's some pretty obvious guesses one could make about Ivy Pepper's name possibly being changed by her new adoptive parents... and then her eventually reclaiming the name Ivy down the line in a dramatic manner."


http://uk.ign.com/articles/2014/07/2...?+main+twitter

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Thanks love. I really appreciate you taking the time out to help me familiarize myself even more with Poison Ivy.


I would say this list is good: 




> There is a planned Secret Six and Ivy is NOT in it? Aw.  She and Starling would've been perfect!
> 
> 
> 
> From the top of my head:
> 
> Batman and Poison Ivy: Cast Shadows by Ann Nocenti
> Batman: Poison Ivy (1997 one-shot) by John Francis Moore and Brian Apthorp
> Pretty much all of her appearances during No Man's Land, but especially the "Fruit of the Earth" three-parter found in Batman: Shadow of the Bat #88, Batman #568 and Detective Comics #735 respectively
> Black Orchid by Neil Gaiman and Dave McKean (Ivy just has a little more than a cameo here but it's to die for)


I would also add: 
Gotham City Sirens, while Catwoman is not to good in that story, Ivy is really wonderful in it. We see a lot of new sides to her.
Batman Shadow of the Bat #56,57,58 The story line is called Leaves of Grass, and its a really wonderful Poison Ivy story.
Batman: Legends of The Dark Knight #42,43 Hot House. Just a great story of Ivy. 
Gotham Central #32 After you read No Man's Land (everything with Ivy at least) which you need to read! Its a touching story lol. This story is a great one to see how much Ivy can care about human life.
Joker's Asylum: Poison Ivy #1 
If you have not read her stuff in the new52 Swamp Thing she is very good in that.
Suicide Squad Vol. 1 #33-43,46,47,58-59,64-66 Her old stuff on Suicide Squad I found to be very good.

But with his list plus mine you have a lot of great stories to help you understand Ivy.





> Some good infos on Poison Ivy's name-change and general direction for Gotham TV-show (contains some Spoilers):
> 
> 
> 
> http://uk.ign.com/articles/2014/07/2...?+main+twitter


I like that. It sound rather interesting.

----------


## Confuzzled

I like the reason for the name change too. I wonder if the story of the adoptive parents will play according to the New 52 origin tale.

Oh, and thanks PT for mentioning Leaves of Grass. I was trying to remember the name of the story with Jason Woodrue and what issues it appeared in but couldn't for the life of me!  :Stick Out Tongue: 

I'd put even Ivy's New 52 Birds of Prey stint and Batgirl Annual #2 over Gotham City Sirens and Joker's Asylum though. Ivy also has a fun role in Dan Slott's Arkham Asylum: Living Hell. Her relationship with Magpie is really cute and I much preferred it to Harley + Ivy.

----------


## retical

> I like the reason for the name change too. I wonder if the story of the adoptive parents will play according to the New 52 origin tale.
> 
> Oh, and thanks PT for mentioning Leaves of Grass. I was trying to remember the name of the story with Jason Woodrue and what issues it appeared in but couldn't for the life of me! 
> 
> I'd put even Ivy's New 52 Birds of Prey stint and Batgirl Annual #2 over Gotham City Sirens and Joker's Asylum though. Ivy also has a fun role in Dan Slott's Arkham Asylum: Living Hell. Her relationship with Magpie is really cute and I much preferred it to Harley + Ivy.


I agree, Birds of Prey and Batgirl Annual is top for me. Especially the Annual.

----------


## Dylan Davison

Oh the reason why I did not put those on the list is cause he or she said he or she had already read them.

Birds of Prey and The Batgirl Annual is something any Ivy fan should check out.

----------


## Green Ghost

Remember the DC Collectible Poll about which New52 figure should be made next? Ivy won and here she is:


Source & more Pics

Sadly no black eyes but the headsculpt is beautiful!

----------


## Confuzzled

> Remember the DC Collectible Poll about which New52 figure should be made next? Ivy won and here she is:
> 
> 
> Source & more Pics
> 
> Sadly no black eyes but the headsculpt is beautiful!


OMG, she's gorgeous though I wish they had gone for red hair over orange. And it's great that she won this poll. The competition was pretty stiff. Between this and Ivy winning CBR's "Which villain should have their own solo series next?" poll, it's more than enough proof that Poison Ivy has a sizable fanbase ready to spend on properties featuring her prominently. 

So why doesn't DC take advantage again?

----------


## retical

> OMG, she's gorgeous though I wish they had gone for red hair over orange. And it's great that she won this poll. The competition was pretty stiff. Between this and Ivy winning CBR's "Which villain should have their own solo series next?" poll, it's more than enough proof that Poison Ivy has a sizable fanbase ready to spend on properties featuring her prominently. 
> 
> So why doesn't DC take advantage again?


Was wondering the same thing. Orange hair looks strange but perhaps it's the photo.

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Remember the DC Collectible Poll about which New52 figure should be made next? Ivy won and here she is:
> 
> 
> Source & more Pics
> 
> Sadly no black eyes but the headsculpt is beautiful!


So pretty! Now I no long have to ask that question at the con in like 5 hours! Yay! lol. I will take pictures of it too for you guys.




> OMG, she's gorgeous though I wish they had gone for red hair over orange. And it's great that she won this poll. The competition was pretty stiff. Between this and Ivy winning CBR's "Which villain should have their own solo series next?" poll, it's more than enough proof that Poison Ivy has a sizable fanbase ready to spend on properties featuring her prominently. 
> 
> So why doesn't DC take advantage again?


I don't think its done. I think its still being worked on. A lot of figures they show off are not finished yet, and they quick painted them to get them to the show.

And I sure hope DC does take notice to this. Now knowing there is a fan base that wants more of her.





> Was wondering the same thing. Orange hair looks strange but perhaps it's the photo.


I will take pictures myself today and see. And let you guys know how great it looks in person!!!

----------


## Confuzzled

> I don't think its done. I think its still being worked on. A lot of figures they show off are not finished yet, and they quick painted them to get them to the show.
> 
> And I sure hope DC does take notice to this. Now knowing there is a fan base that wants more of her.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will take pictures myself today and see. And let you guys know how great it looks in person!!!


Oh, it is sculpted perfectly! Don't get me wrong. In fact, you should say so to whoever's managing the displays. It's okay, the orange hair is growing on me now.  :Stick Out Tongue:  The TNBA Ivy will also be on display BTW.

You are soo incredibly lucky to get to go to the con every year, Power Torch!

----------


## Green Ghost

> The TNBA Ivy will also be on display BTW.


She is, but she doesn't look as good as the previous pic:


Don't know what happend to her face  :Confused:

----------


## The_Greatest_Username

I'm a little bummed that Ivy won't be in Gail's new book if it is in fact a Secret Six title. I feel like Ivy would've been perfect there and Gail does a great job writing her.

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Oh, it is sculpted perfectly! Don't get me wrong. In fact, you should say so to whoever's managing the displays. It's okay, the orange hair is growing on me now.  The TNBA Ivy will also be on display BTW.
> 
> You are soo incredibly lucky to get to go to the con every year, Power Torch!


Ya I am lucky to get in each year. Sunday I will be taking pictures with a friends phone, so I can get some good ones for you guys!

----------


## Green Ghost

Hey Power Torch, you should go to the Fox Comic-Con booth, they're giving away a Poison Ivy/ Ivy Pepper lenticular:
https://twitter.com/Gotham/status/492783253346996224

It has a beautiful drawing by Gary Frank (I think it's his art):
IvyGotham2.jpg

----------


## Green Ghost

In other SDCC News, Ivy will be in Harley Quinn Annual #1:



> The rub and smell Harley Quinn Annual #1 is brought up. “I can’t remember if Dan talked us into it, or we talked Dan into it”, says Conner. *The story will be about Poison Ivy being thrown in Arkham and Harley going to free her*, and the smell will be from a villain Harley encounters in the book.


Source

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Hey Power Torch, you should go to the Fox Comic-Con booth, they're giving away a Poison Ivy/ Ivy Pepper lenticular:
> https://twitter.com/Gotham/status/492783253346996224
> 
> It has a beautiful drawing by Gary Frank (I think it's his art):
> IvyGotham2.jpg


My guess is that they are all gone. I could not even get into a batman panel this year. It seem liked everyone and there mothers wanted in the Batman comic panel haha. I will check if they have any later today. But even if its gone. I bet I can find it one ebay. Glad they put her new52 costume on it.



> In other SDCC News, Ivy will be in Harley Quinn Annual #1:
> 
> Source


Oh yay.....haha It seems like thats the only place Ivy is showing up.

I am mad I could not get into any Batman panel to ask about Ivy. It sucks. I will take pics of the figure tomorrow. Night guys.

----------


## retical

> My guess is that they are all gone. I could not even get into a batman panel this year. It seem liked everyone and there mothers wanted in the Batman comic panel haha. I will check if they have any later today. But even if its gone. I bet I can find it one ebay. Glad they put her new52 costume on it.
> 
> Oh yay.....haha It seems like thats the only place Ivy is showing up.
> 
> I am mad I could not get into any Batman panel to ask about Ivy. It sucks. I will take pics of the figure tomorrow. Night guys.


It looks like the team behind Harley has called dibs for Ivy. That sucks.
Anyway have a great time.

----------


## Dylan Davison

> It looks like the team behind Harley has called dibs for Ivy. That sucks.
> Anyway have a great time.


I don't know I hope not. She has to show up other places haha.

Here is a great picture of the figure! It looks so good in person and comes out June next year!

20140727_091029.jpg

----------


## Confuzzled

> I don't know I hope not. She has to show up other places haha.
> 
> Here is a great picture of the figure! It looks so good in person and comes out June next year!
> 
> 20140727_091029.jpg


It looks great and it is awesome to see "WINNER" next to Ivy!  :Big Grin:

----------


## Dylan Davison

> It looks great and it is awesome to see "WINNER" next to Ivy!


Now I hope she gets to be a winner in other DC stuff. Like the comics haha.

----------


## retical

Clare Foley as Ivy Pepper/Poison Ivy
What are your thoughts on Gotham?

----------


## Dylan Davison

I am looking forward to Gotham and to see how they do a young Ivy.

----------


## Rafa-Rivas-2099

Since this thread is likely full of Poison Ivy experts, maybe you can help me with a decision I'm trying to make.

In http://community.comicbookresources....n-of-Batman-66
we say things we would have liked to see in a 4th season of '66, with the available actors and characters in 1968-1969.

I have always thought Jane Fonda would make a great Poison Ivy... Until I rewatched the Marsha, Queen if Diamonds. If recasted, she'd make a great campy Poison Ivy. On the other hand, sticking with the Jane Fonda idea, it would be cool to have them competing or fighting each other.

----------


## retical

Where is everyone?

----------


## JohnWOlin

Hey happened past this thread and thought I would show you guys a  poison ivy I did in my sketchbook a few years back. It's weird in the middle because the page itself was hard to scan on a little scanner. Used crayola watercolor and pen to draw it. Lemme know what you think.  :Smile:  Poison Ivy Sketch

----------


## masciajames

Poison Ivy: A True Daughter of Arkham

SOA - Poison Ivy.jpg

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Hey happened past this thread and thought I would show you guys a  poison ivy I did in my sketchbook a few years back. It's weird in the middle because the page itself was hard to scan on a little scanner. Used crayola watercolor and pen to draw it. Lemme know what you think.  Poison Ivy Sketch


Thats really good! I like the style! Very cool! Thanks for sharing with us!

----------


## retical

This would make a wicked T-shirt print.

----------


## Dylan Davison

Ya it would! Who madde it?

----------


## retical

> Ya it would! Who madde it?


Nope, just found it online

----------


## Enigmatic Undead



----------


## Dylan Davison

Thats really cool! Thanks for sharing! 

I hope Ivy shows up in something soon. This thread has been slow due to it haha.

----------


## Confuzzled

Some stuff from Deviantart that I really liked:

----------


## Confuzzled

Pamela Lillian Isley with Audrey II by Clio Chang:



The Gotham City Sirens in the style of Patrick Nagel by Derek Langille:



And finally, a hauntingly beautiful NSFW version of Ivy by Juan Carlos Ruiz Burgos as a tribute to a "Saturday Evening Post" cover:

*spoilers:*

*end of spoilers*

----------


## Dylan Davison

Thanks for sharing those! I am sad by the lack of Ivy from DC. But we always have wonderful fan art!

----------


## Dylan Davison

Duane posted this on Facebook, I love it. Glad to see some people still loving his BoP like I do.

----------


## nepenthes

^ The women on left and right are definitely twins - the one in middle possibly a sister? Ha, nice  :Cool:

----------


## Dylan Davison

> ^ The women on left and right are definitely twins - the one in middle possibly a sister? Ha, nice


I did not even notice that lol its a BoP family! lol.

----------


## Confuzzled

I miss Starling and Ivy interactions.  :Frown:  Much better than Harley/Ivy IMO.

----------


## TheDarkKnightReturns

> I miss Starling and Ivy interactions.  Much better than Harley/Ivy IMO.


I beg to differ. Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn are a match made in heaven.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I beg to differ. Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn are a match made in heaven.


If anything, that first page perfectly illustrates why Harley completely brings down Ivy. She is such a lost cause that her helplessness makes Ivy even more of a misanthrope subconsciously. Her obsession with being Joker's doormat disturbs Pamela very deeply and pushes her even further in losing her trust and respect for humankind. 

Ivy needs a strong, independent associate like Starling to influence her to help find her philosophical and moral balance.

----------


## TheDarkKnightReturns

> If anything, that first page perfectly illustrates why Harley completely brings down Ivy. She is such a lost cause that her helplessness makes Ivy even more of a misanthrope subconsciously. Her obsession with being Joker's doormat disturbs Pamela very deeply and pushes her even further in losing her trust and respect for humankind.


And the second page illustrates how Ivy love for Harvey give her not only joy but also hope in humanity. Ivy needs Harley.

----------


## Confuzzled

> And the second page illustrates how Ivy love for Harvey give her not only joy but also hope in humanity. Ivy needs Harley.


Just because a person in a depressing relationship gets temporary hope and joy from the other party does not really mean they're good for them.

----------


## Dylan Davison

I love Harley and Ivy as friends (key word there). They are like sisters, when its written well and when it fits. And most times is does.

But Ivy and Starling is interesting as well, Starling kinda hates Ivy, so its cool to see them on the same side. I would love to see them bond more. As the two girls who betrayed the BoP. It would be interesting.

----------


## MOOT

A couple of questions about the one and only Ivy, is she  the most powerfull metahuman enemy of Batman? I think so, 

Has she ever been in a Suicide Squad book ?

poison_ivy_by_leon1989-d36b4d8.jpg

----------


## Green Ghost

> A couple of questions about the one and only Ivy, is she  the most powerfull metahuman enemy of Batman? I think so, 
> 
> Has she ever been in a Suicide Squad book ?


First, I also think she is the most powerfull metahuman Batman has in his rogues gallery. Clayface is another one who is very powerfull, but Ivy killed him once Pre-New52 and controlled him New52, so I give the title to her  :Wink: 

Second, she had a quite long run with the team in the first Suicide Squad title (http://www.comicvine.com/suicide-squ...ces/4005-1697/)

----------


## TheDarkKnightReturns

> A couple of questions about the one and only Ivy, is she  the most powerfull metahuman enemy of Batman? I think so, 
> 
> Has she ever been in a Suicide Squad book ?
> 
> poison_ivy_by_leon1989-d36b4d8.jpg


1. In term of raw power and destruction, I think she is indeed the most powerful metahuman Batman has in his rogue gallery. 

She is powerful enough to take down whole buildings as seen in the last issue of Gotham City Sirens. I have never seen Bane, Killer Croc, Solomon Grundy (during his time as a Batman villain) nor Clayface capable of doing that kind of stuff.





2. Yes, she has been part of the Suicide Squad [Suicide Squad (vol. 1) (1987 – 1992)].

----------


## MOOT

wow that is some feat !  thanks 4 the answers  :Smile:    .... gosh, 50 floors buildings , DC should borrow her to Wonder Woman or the Flash sometime

----------


## Confuzzled

> wow that is some feat !  thanks 4 the answers    .... gosh, 50 floors buildings , DC should borrow her to Wonder Woman or the Flash sometime


I think she could actually take on the entire Justice League proper. That's one of the reasons many people aren't satisfied with her still being relegated to being an Arkham loon. She's way more powerful than the other inmates. The only solution would be to depower her, which would suck a lot.

----------


## nj06

> 1. In term of raw power and destruction, I think she is indeed the most powerful metahuman Batman has in his rogue gallery. 
> 
> She is powerful enough to take down whole buildings as seen in the last issue of Gotham City Sirens. I have never seen Bane, Killer Croc, Solomon Grundy (during his time as a Batman villain) nor Clayface capable of doing that kind of stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2. Yes, she has been part of the Suicide Squad [Suicide Squad (vol. 1) (1987  1992)].


Poison Ivy has always been underrated in terms of the power that she possesses. I don't like it when she is put in the same group as the other Arkham loons as I feel she is above them. Like Ra's al Ghul, Ivy should be among the upper echelon of Bat villains and DC villainy in general. Her own powers and her intelligence are a dangerous threat and she should always be treated as such.  It should take the entire Bat-Family to bring her down and her connection to the Green should only be surpassed by the likes of Swamp Thing.

----------


## TheDarkKnightReturns

> Poison Ivy has always been underrated in terms of the power that she possesses. I don't like it when she is put in the same group as the other Arkham loons as I feel she is above them. Like Ra's al Ghul, Ivy should be among the upper echelon of Bat villains and DC villainy in general. Her own powers and her intelligence are a dangerous threat and she should always be treated as such.  It should take the entire Bat-Family to bring her down and her connection to the Green should only be surpassed by the likes of Swamp Thing.


Agree. People always mention Ra's al Ghul as Batman's most powerful enemy and I agree with that notion. But in term of raw power and destruction and with her deep knowledge of plants, she should be Batman's most dangerous enemy. Bane, Clayface, Killer Croc have nothing on her. Plus Batman's female enemies need to taken more seriously and play a more active role in Batman stories. Or course we have Lady Shiva, Catwoman, White Rabbit, Harley Quinn, Talia al Ghul (depending on the writer) who have already played their role well but I feel Poison Ivy should be the Queen of the Batman rogues gallery. She should lead a group of Bat villainesses some day. If Zero Year can raises the Riddler profile, I cannot see why DC cannot do the same with Poison Ivy.

P.S.: Come to think of it, Batman does have the greatest female rogues gallery in comic book history. Bah, he likes the bad girls after all.

----------


## Confuzzled

Just watched Assault on Arkham and was surprised to see Ivy make an appearance (even a non-speaking one) as I wasn't expecting it. At least they correctly portrayed her as the most powerful metahuman incarcerated in Arkham Asylum.

Oh and here's an interview of Claire Foley, who plays lil Ivy in _Gotham_:

 




> Were you a fan of Batman and Poison Ivy growing up?
> 
> Yes, I have four brothers and we were always watching Batman!
> 
> What was the auditioning process for the role like?
> 
> Originally when I auditioned for the role, I didn’t see a full script as it was confidential, and the audition sides said the role was for a new tv show. It did say Gotham, but it was for a little girl with the fake name of Sally, so I didn’t even know it was for the future Poison Ivy!
> 
> Are you drawing any inspiration from Uma Thurman’s famous portrayal of the character for your role as the young Poison Ivy?
> ...


For the rest of the (non-Gotham related) interview: http://www.bsckids.com/2014/09/clare...ive-interview/

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Just watched Assault on Arkham and was surprised to see Ivy make an appearance (even a non-speaking one) as I wasn't expecting it. At least they correctly portrayed her as the most powerful metahuman incarcerated in Arkham Asylum.
> 
> Oh and here's an interview of Claire Foley, who plays lil Ivy in _Gotham_:
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> For the rest of the (non-Gotham related) interview: http://www.bsckids.com/2014/09/clare...ive-interview/


I watched the first episode, I liked her playing Ivy, as well as her whole family set up. I am looking forward to more of her.

----------


## Green Ghost

Finally POISON IVY & SWAMP THING...



...in Harley Quinn Annual #1. So it'll be just for fan and probably full of sexual-plant-puns (judging from Swamp Things face). But at least the art is nice!

----------


## Confuzzled

> Finally POISON IVY & SWAMP THING...
> 
> 
> 
> ...in Harley Quinn Annual #1. So it'll be just for fan and probably full of sexual-plant-puns (judging from Swamp Things face). But at least the art is nice!


The art is simply gorgeous. And I love Pam/Alec too. Even though I'm sure there will be terrible plant innuendos galore, at least we are getting these tender moments with Ivy.

----------


## nebezial

why thank you  :Smile:

----------


## MentalManipulator

Speaking of Suicide Squad…Margot Robbie is being rumored for the future movie. After seeing Wolf of Wallstreet I think she could pull of a very interesting Ivy…would guys like it?

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Speaking of Suicide Squad…Margot Robbie is being rumored for the future movie. After seeing Wolf of Wallstreet I think she could pull of a very interesting Ivy…would guys like it?


Ya, I would  be  okay  with  it .  As long  as  they  did  her  right .

----------


## Green Ghost

I could see Robbie as Ivy, but I guess she's up for Harley (the sexed-up new 52 version). But Ivy in a Suicide Squad movie could be really cool (if done right of course).

I some NYCC news, it was hinted that Ivy could appear in the *Batman '66* book:



> "Now this means we can bring in villains that were not on the show, as if they were on the show. I'm not gonna name any here, but if you've read the comics, you can tell I've kinda been setting up villains that could've been created by show villains." Parker alluded to Killer Croc and Poison Ivy.


Source

I am looking forward to that, because I always wanted to see her on the show, so this will be the closest we'll get.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> I could see Robbie as Ivy, but I guess she's up for Harley (the sexed-up new 52 version). But Ivy in a Suicide Squad movie could be really cool (if done right of course).
> 
> I some NYCC news, it was hinted that Ivy could appear in the *Batman '66* book:
> 
> Source
> 
> I am looking forward to that, because I always wanted to see her on the show, so this will be the closest we'll get.


That would be cool indeed! I always wanted her on the show too. As for the movie I really hope if they go with Harley they don't do sex-up version of her. i prefer the original character : psycho/lovely clown/ mad in love. For a sexual Robbie character Ivy is definitely more fitting.

----------


## Dylan Davison

Interesting! I had always wondered what a Batman 66 Ivy would be like, if she had been in the show. I will pick up an issue with her in it for sure!

----------


## Confuzzled

> As for the movie I really hope if they go with Harley they don't do sex-up version of her. i prefer the original character : psycho/lovely clown/ mad in love. For a sexual Robbie character Ivy is definitely more fitting.


If they are considering Robbie for Harley, then the version WILL BE sexed-up! That's why I really hope it is Ivy. Margot is soo smoldering sultry that she's perfect for Pam! Plus in the New 52 costume! <3 <3

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## MentalManipulator

I agree completely!

----------


## Dylan Davison

> BATMAN ETERNAL #40
> Written by SCOTT SNYDER, JAMES TYNION IV, RAY FAWKES, KYLE HIGGINS and TIM SEELEY
> Art by JUAN JOSE RYP
> Cover by IVAN REIS and JOE PRADO
> On sale JANUARY 7 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US • RATED T
> It’s three-way battle for survival between Batman, The Riddler...and Mother Nature?


Wonder if this has to do with Ivy.

----------


## Confuzzled

> why thank you


I missed this comment. Yeah, if you are the real Nebezial then your artwork is really pretty so THANK YOU! The cosplay in different seasons one was incredibly funny!







Guys, check out the rest of Nebezial's work on DeviantArt.

----------


## nebezial

will the real nebezial please stand up!


stands up XD

----------


## Confuzzled

> will the real nebezial please stand up!
> 
> stands up XD


Keep up the great work!  :Smile:  Your Ivy is gorgeous on an ethereal level. And you also add some sauciness to her looks/personality which I really enjoy.  :Wink:

----------


## retical

How is it going guys? Long time no see.

----------


## juan678

nebezial

----------


## MattSimasArt

My Ivy  :Smile:

----------


## The_Greatest_Username

> My Ivy


She looks gorgeous! Awesome job.

----------


## Confuzzled

> My Ivy


There's a cool 80's retro vibe to her.  :Big Grin:

----------


## Enigmatic Undead



----------


## Dylan Davison

Did Ivy and Harley  make out  in her last issue? I am seeing people talking about. I am glad that title is not in continuity, if so.

----------


## TheDarkKnightReturns

> Did Ivy and Harley  make out  in her last issue? I am seeing people talking about. I am glad that title is not in continuity, if so.


Whats the problem with Harley and Ivy making out ? And the title is not in continuity ? How so ?

----------


## Green Ghost

> Did Ivy and Harley  make out  in her last issue? I am seeing people talking about. I am glad that title is not in continuity, if so.


Harley kissed Ivy (who was under mindcontrol) to make her remember and at the end Harley wants Ivy to touch her chickenskin. In between you have the same adolescent jokes you know from the series, but also some nicer more classic views on their friendship. It wasn't all bad and if you see it at out of continuity you can enjoy (or endure) the humor and everyone acting weird (especially Ivy, who can also be effacted by plant-based drugs).

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Whats the problem with Harley and Ivy making out ? And the title is not in continuity ? How so ?


Nothing is wrong with it at all, I just don't care for them as a couple and view them as family. I did not mean to offend those who like them as a couple, this is just my opinion.

The writer stated, if I recall correctly, that they used Harley's from all over, all there favorite Harley's to make this one, including the new52 one. To me that makes it out of continuity. Plus the characterization of Ivy and Harley do not match the New52 versions of them. I mean nothing bad by that. It can be a good or even great title but be out of continuity.




> Harley kissed Ivy (who was under mindcontrol) to make her remember and at the end Harley wants Ivy to touch her chickenskin. In between you have the same adolescent jokes you know from the series, but also some nicer more classic views on their friendship. It wasn't all bad and if you see it at out of continuity you can enjoy (or endure) the humor and everyone acting weird (especially Ivy, who can also be effacted by plant-based drugs).


Ah I see, well that is better, a kiss is fine. But did she really say that? What is a chickenskin? XD. Ya I mean I do take it as one, and I read them at some point, but like months after they come out. My friend lets me read them, so I can tell the writing is good, and the art is good. Nothing is bad about the title. But to me it will always be out of continuity. Which is not a bad thing at all. I love everyone on the title, there works have been some of my favorite things. They are talented and this book is clearly a great title.

----------


## retical

Really? Ivy is drugged? Poison Ivy gets drugged? Does this book even have an editor? Why not go the other way and have Harley drugged, this does not make sense at all. How can it be possible?




> What is a chickenskin?


It's slang for vagina. Haven't and probably won't check it out. 
I'm too old to care for sexy books and chickenskin jokes.

----------


## The Batlord

> It's slang for vagina. Haven't and probably won't check it out. 
> I'm too old to care for sexy books and chickenskin jokes.


Nah, it means goosebumps. And you're only too old if you think you're too old. I personally hope to be laughing like a cretin at fart jokes and new slang words for people's genitalia long into my old age.

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Nah, it means goosebumps. And you're only too old if you think you're too old. I personally hope to be laughing like a cretin at fart jokes and new slang words for people's genitalia long into my old age.


Why would Ivy want to feel her goosebumps though o.o.

----------


## Green Ghost

> Why would Ivy want to feel her goosebumps though o.o.


You know the writers use every chance for Harley & Ivy to get touchy...

In other news: Poison Ivy (from "Batman: Crimson Mist") is on the teaser for DCs fill-in event "Convergence":

Source

----------


## Dylan Davison

Ya I saw that, looks interesting. Never read that story though.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Ya I saw that, looks interesting. Never read that story though.


There's not much there for Ivy fans. She only appears to get brutally murdered by Vampire Batman who goes on a Rogue's Gallery killing spree after The Joker kills Catwoman.

----------


## Dylan Davison

> There's not much there for Ivy fans. She only appears to get brutally murdered by Vampire Batman who goes on a Rogue's Gallery killing spree after The Joker kills Catwoman.


Strange that she would be on there then haha.

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## Dylan Davison

> HARLEY QUINN
> Writer: Steve Pugh
> Artist: Phil Winslade and John Dell
> Harley Quinn is enjoying her normal life under the dome until Catwoman and Poison Ivy draft her to fight Captain Carrot.


One more Gotham City Sirens mission? I hope. I also hope we go back to new52 Ivy when this is all over. Don't get me wrong, I loved old Ivy, but I feel like new52 Ivy has a lot more going for her, when they use her haha. And plus her figure one the vote, that means people really like her new52 costume/character at least.

----------


## Green Ghost

> One more Gotham City Sirens mission? I hope. I also hope we go back to new52 Ivy when this is all over. Don't get me wrong, I loved old Ivy, but I feel like new52 Ivy has a lot more going for her, when they use her haha. And plus her figure one the vote, that means people really like her new52 costume/character at least.


Agree on that! I also really like new52 Ivy, when she is handled like in Birds of Prey/Batgirl Annual/Gothtopia of course and not the one from Arkham War or Harley Quinn.

DC should realize that Poison Ivy has a huge following and not only among comicbook fans. There so many cosplayers out there and you can read that she is one of the most used characters at Cons and I have read different articles that her Costume was one of the most requested during Halloween (example).

She could bring in so much more money (merchandise with her is already selling very well), but somehow DC just don't want to invest into the character.

My writing isn't very well today, because I am tired, but I think you guys know what I mean  :Wink:

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Agree on that! I also really like new52 Ivy, when she is handled like in Birds of Prey/Batgirl Annual/Gothtopia of course and not the one from Arkham War or Harley Quinn.
> 
> DC should realize that Poison Ivy has a huge following and not only among comicbook fans. There so many cosplayers out there and you can read that she is one of the most used characters at Cons and I have read different articles that her Costume was one of the most requested during Halloween (example).
> 
> She could bring in so much more money (merchandise with her is already selling very well), but somehow DC just don't want to invest into the character.
> 
> My writing isn't very well today, because I am tired, but I think you guys know what I mean


I totally agree with that. DC really needs to see that people like the Ivy from those titles. That figure vote alone should have at least put her in there minds. She needs t obe on a team book at least.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I totally agree with that. DC really needs to see that people like the Ivy from those titles. That figure vote alone should have at least put her in there minds. She needs t obe on a team book at least.


She also breezily won CBR's *"Who Should Be the Next Villain to Headline Their Own Ongoing Series?"*  poll. If her winning all these polls doesn't make DC take notice, then I don't know what will.

----------


## Andrew Eldritch

> She also breezily won CBR's *"Who Should Be the Next Villain to Headline Their Own Ongoing Series?"*  poll. If her winning all these polls doesn't make DC take notice, then I don't know what will.


I can see it working as a mini, but not as an ongoing series. Sorry, i think Ivy works better as a villain. I can't see her as "hero" or "anti-hero". Which doesn't mean she has to be shown as a two-dimensional and clichéd character.

----------


## Dylan Davison

> SECRET ORIGINS #10
> Written by CAMERON STEWART, BRENDEN FLETCHER, DAN JURGENS and CAITLIN KITTREDGE
> Art by STJEPAN SEJIC, IRENE KOH and SEAN CHEN
> Cover by BRYAN HITCH
> On sale FEBRUARY 25 • 48 pg, FC, $4.99 US • RATED T
> Get ready for The New 52 origins of Batgirl (written by Cameron Stewart and Brenden Fletcher with art by Irene Koh), Firestorm (courtesy of writer Dan Jurgens and artist Sean Chen) and Poison Ivy (coming your way from writer Caitlin Kittredge and artist Stjepan Sejic)


I hope they do a good job, and explain some stuff about her dying and the bio suit as well. I will be picking this up.

I love the art pick, don't know much about the writer. But I hope they do her right haha. I have been missing Ivy big time.

----------


## Green Ghost

> I hope they do a good job, and explain some stuff about her dying and the bio suit as well. I will be picking this up.
> 
> I love the art pick, don't know much about the writer. But I hope they do her right haha. I have been missing Ivy big time.


You beat me to it  :Wink: 

Really curious about that but also a little scared. But at least we know the art will be good (also hoping for black eyes)

In other Ivy comic news:

She's on the cover of Batman Elternal #38




> BATMAN ETERNAL #38
> (W) Scott Snyder & Various (A) Andrea Mutti (CA) Tommy Lee Edwards
> The refugees from Arkham Asylum think there's safety in numbers - but not if one of them is Bane!
> Item Code: OCT140291 In Shops: 12/24/2014 SRP: $2.99


Source

And Harley Quinn #15:
harleyquinn15.jpg



> Written by Amanda Conner and Jimmy Palmiotti, art by Chad Hardin, cover by Amanda Conner, variant cover by Marco D'Alfonso.
> 
> Harley was certain she could have it all: She could be the world's best landlord, protect Coney Island from the scum of the Earth, woo Mason Macabre, work her day job as a psychiatrist, volunteer at the puppy shelter...but that's a whole lot of spinning plates, and eventually they're bound to start breaking! What happens when a psychopath cracks up? Is it possible for Harley to go even more insane?!
> 
> 32 pages, $2.99, in stores on Feb. 25


This is probably a cover-only appearance.

----------


## Dylan Davison

Thanks for posting those. I was having a hard time with my tablet lol. Ya, I am happy, but worried as well. Ivy has not been shown at her best since the Batgirl annual.

----------


## Confuzzled

Wait, Secret Origins is gonna show Ivy's New 52 origin? What was Villains' Month supposed to be then?

----------


## Confuzzled

> 


This is a great cover!

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Wait, Secret Origins is gonna show Ivy's New 52 origin? What was Villains' Month supposed to be then?


I would hope it was stuff we did not see in that issue. Maybe her getting the bio suit or something.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I would hope it was stuff we did not see in that issue. Maybe her getting the bio suit or something.


Hopefully.

Here are some cool fanart pieces:

Mindy Lee:



Babs Tarr of relaunced _Batgirl_ fame:

----------


## Confuzzled

Here's another one by Mindy Lee titled "BFFs". God, I love her Uma Thurman inspired take on Ivy:

----------


## Abishai100

I own a special Harley Quinn comic edition (DC Comics) and "Batman: Year One" (Frank Miller).  I was a big fan of "Batman: The Animated Series" (Fox TV), and I'm a fan of "Gotham" (Fox TV).  I've seen all of the Hollywood (USA) Batman films, and my favorite I perhaps Christopher Nolan's "Batman Begins" (2005).

While Green Arrow (DC Comics), Mandrake the Magician (King Features Syndicate), and The Phantom (King Features Syndicate) are perhaps my favorite comic heroes, and the Christopher Reeve Hollywood (USA) Superman films are my favorite superhero movies, Batman remains the superhero that fascinates me the most.

Maybe it's because my college education in psychology makes me curious about the criminal insanity themes in Batman (DC Comics).

My favorite Batman villains are the Mad Hatter, Joker, and Ra's al Ghul.

I was thinking that two Batman villains that capture the essential Batman (DC Comics) theme of vigilantism as it relates to criminal insanity (and resultant terrorism and mayhem) nicely are Two-Face and Poison Ivy.

Two-Face is a madman obsessed with chance and punishment, an evil version of the valiant vigilante The Punisher (Marvel Comics) perhaps.  However, Poison Ivy's fixation on eco-terrorism makes her a great symbol of criminal insanity as it relates to terrorism.

I was also thinking that eco-terrorism is not the full scope of Poison Ivy's character.  I was thinking that even more so than Harley Quinn or Catwoman, Poison Ivy represents a social perception of the feminine charms associated with the 'seduction' of crime.  Heck, her name certainly suggests that.


In the timeless Ancient Greek epic "The Illiad" (Homer), we read of two massive armies engaged in a siege over the honor of a beautiful woman, Helen of Troy.

Women can make men do almost anything.  Today's consumerism culture (i.e., eTrade, eBay, Burger King, etc.) facilitates the political talk of gender-themed products such as Aunt Jemima pancake syrup and Barbie 'girlie' dolls.  Hollywood (USA) even recently released a special movie about Catwoman starring Halle Berry.

Poison Ivy engages in activities that reveal a modern age urbanization paranoia about how gender politics catalyzes real radical sentiments about 'hubris economics.'

Poison Ivy is the ultimate doll for neo-liberals.




 :EEK!: 

Botanical She-Devil



knightfall.jpg

----------


## The Batlord

> I own a special Harley Quinn comic edition (DC Comics) and "Batman: Year One" (Frank Miller).  I was a big fan of "Batman: The Animated Series" (Fox TV), and I'm a fan of "Gotham" (Fox TV).  I've seen all of the Hollywood (USA) Batman films, and my favorite I perhaps Christopher Nolan's "Batman Begins" (2005).
> 
> While Green Arrow (DC Comics), Mandrake the Magician (King Features Syndicate), and The Phantom (King Features Syndicate) are perhaps my favorite comic heroes, and the Christopher Reeve Hollywood (USA) Superman films are my favorite superhero movies, Batman remains the superhero that fascinates me the most.
> 
> Maybe it's because my college education in psychology makes me curious about the criminal insanity themes in Batman (DC Comics).
> 
> My favorite Batman villains are the Mad Hatter, Joker, and Ra's al Ghul.
> 
> I was thinking that two Batman villains that capture the essential Batman (DC Comics) theme of vigilantism as it relates to criminal insanity (and resultant terrorism and mayhem) nicely are Two-Face and Poison Ivy.
> ...

----------


## MentalManipulator

Did you guys see this? I have mixed feelings about this hole new origin for her and she being so crazy from the start. What do you think?

----------


## Dylan Davison

I I am sooooooo behind on Gotham, need to catch up. Also I guses there was a typo for the Secret Origins issue 10. Christy Marx will be writing the issue, and I am not sure how I feel about it. I love some of her stuff, but did not care for her on BoP. So, we shall see.

----------


## Green Ghost

> Did you guys see this? I have mixed feelings about this hole new origin for her and she being so crazy from the start. What do you think?


Yeah, I am also not quite sure yet. I am glad that she finally makes an appearance again and they pretty much explained why she's already damaged...It was hinted that her father was abusive, then he got framed and killed by the police with her mother cutting her wrists after that.




> I I am sooooooo behind on Gotham, need to catch up. Also I guses there was a typo for the Secret Origins issue 10. Christy Marx will be writing the issue, and I am not sure how I feel about it. I love some of her stuff, but did not care for her on BoP. So, we shall see.


What?! I have done some research on Caitlin Kittredge (preview writer) and she sounded promising and like she could bring something fresh to this. Christy Marx on the other hand, her work on DC books isn't that impressive from what I've read...But it`s wait and see, I guess.

Would be awesome if they got Duane Swierczynski to write her Origin.

----------


## godisawesome

Gotham's Ivy already being scary is a nice addition, and I'm kind of liking how the actress's look seems inspired by a weed at this time.

----------


## Confuzzled

Not sure how I feel about Psycho Ivy on Gotham. I thought they were going for a misunderstood and more sympathetic version on the show. Interesting that they are retaining Ivy's obsession for Batman in this. None of the other media adaptations stayed loyal to that, leading to the comics entirely forgetting about that aspect of hers.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I I am sooooooo behind on Gotham, need to catch up. Also I guses there was a typo for the Secret Origins issue 10. Christy Marx will be writing the issue, and I am not sure how I feel about it. I love some of her stuff, but did not care for her on BoP. So, we shall see.


Haven't read her comic work but I think Christy Marx will do great justice to Ivy's origin! She wrote some great bad gals on her show _Jem and the Holograms_.

----------


## Green Ghost

The variant cover for Arkham Manor #2 has extreme crazy Ivy on it:



Hope this is just the artist having some artistic freedom and not the characterization of Ivy in this book... :Frown:

----------


## retical

> The variant cover for Arkham Manor #2 has extreme crazy Ivy on it:
> 
> 
> 
> Hope this is just the artist having some artistic freedom and not the characterization of Ivy in this book...


Well it's just a cover but I think that DC is going back to one dimensional full crazy Ivy now.
Isn't Harley and Joker's Daughter more antihero-ish now in Suicide Squad or whatever?
Been very busy at work the last few months and haven't read any comics so I might be wrong.
I'd like to see better characterization of Ivy but I doubt it will happen any time soon.
But yeah if Duggan is going with extreme crazy Ivy I will be very disappointed.

----------


## The Lucky One

I recently read through the entire (Ostrander) run of Suicide Squad, and one of the biggest surprises is how differently Ivy used to be written. I grew up on the '90s animated show and the subsequent comic portrayals, which tended to portray her as an extreme environmental crusader, so it was pretty jarring to read about an ultra-materialistic Ivy who couldn't give less of a crap about the environment and didn't control plants. Seeing her obsessing over paintings that modern Poison Ivy would probably burn for being made of paper was a little strange, but probably the most jarring thing was her complaining about a mission locale because the rainforest was not her idea of an ideal vacation spot. Considering that's _exactly_ where modern writers tend to send her for vacation, it read as pretty amusing.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I recently read through the entire (Ostrander) run of Suicide Squad, and one of the biggest surprises is how differently Ivy used to be written. I grew up on the '90s animated show and the subsequent comic portrayals, which tended to portray her as an extreme environmental crusader, so it was pretty jarring to read about an ultra-materialistic Ivy who couldn't give less of a crap about the environment and didn't control plants. Seeing her obsessing over paintings that modern Poison Ivy would probably burn for being made of paper was a little strange, but probably the most jarring thing was her complaining about a mission locale because the rainforest was not her idea of an ideal vacation spot. Considering that's _exactly_ where modern writers tend to send her for vacation, it read as pretty amusing.


Yeah, BTAS changed all that about her!  :Big Grin:  That portrayal still influences her current depiction in comics and other media to a LARGE degree.

----------


## Confuzzled

Clare Foley, the child actress who plays Ivy on Gotham, had an interview with CBR on Ivy's portrayal on the show and future prospects for her.

----------


## tabo61

I liked how the young Ivy on Gotham seemed to show a lot of hidden rage on last night's episode.

----------


## GrandKaiser

Batman truly loves Ivy but he can't be with her because that scene from Evil Dead freaks him out

----------


## The Batlord

> Batman truly loves Ivy but he can't be with her because that scene from Evil Dead freaks him out

----------


## Confuzzled

Mesmerized by this devilish take on New 52 Ivy by tsbranch:

----------


## Abishai100

Now that eco-activism has become such a hot issue in American politics and people are quietly talking about eco-terrorism and referencing relevant works such as Edward Abbey's "The Monkey Wrench Gang" (1975), Poison Ivy is taking on larger proportions.

There's no reason that comic books can not be mixed with mainstream culture.

After all, Poison Ivy reminds everyone of lifestyle terror --- don't mess with this opposite of Mother Nature.  Penguin may hold that dastardly umbrella, but it's Poison Ivy who carries water-guns filled with acid rain.

I like Ivy Pepper formats of early Poison Ivy on "Gotham" (Fox TV) so far.


 :EEK!:

----------


## Confuzzled

> Penguin may hold that dastardly umbrella, but it's Poison Ivy who carries water-guns filled with acid rain.


I love the poetry in this!

By the way, was listening to Fleetwood Mac's _Running Through the Garden_. This song is soo Ivy that it's like Stevie Nicks wrote it for her!

----------


## Abishai100

Eco-terrorism is a hot issue in modern times, and Poison Ivy (DC Comics) captures our fascination with loud psychology.

We can use her as a totem for consumerism claustrophobia.



 :EEK!:

----------


## Green Ghost

So Ivy kinda showed up in Batman Elternal #36

The good news here is: She has the black eyes! Yay  :Embarrassment: 

And now the meh stuff...*SPOILERS*
.
.
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.
.
.
.
.
.
.
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.
.
.



> Looks like she will be just a pawn in a plan by other villains and it's Hush & the Riddler again. Okay, this was old DCU, but Riddler already used her experiments in Zero Year in New52 and she was used by Scarecrow in Arkham Wars. So this is the second time Snyder is using her as part of Riddlers plan...quite dissapointing, considering that I otherwise really like his work.
> 
> batet36.jpg
> 
> I am so sick of Ivy being just a pawn in another villains plan...and btw the next part is titles "Villains United"


.
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*End of SPOILERS*


So it looks like the New52 Poison Ivy is mostly this now.

...oh and being Harley's horny sidekick of course! like in the recent Harley Quinn Holiday Special:



> HQHoliday.jpg
> See the mistletoe Ivy has grown?!

----------


## Abishai100

Populism contributes to festivity.

I watched the Woody Allen film "Celebrity" (1998) which suggested that famous American movie stars such as Leo DiCaprio have free reign in our paparazzi society to live out private fantasies, feeling condoned by a public that is enamored purely with cinematic dazzle.

I later watched the Roman Polanski film "The Ninth Gate" (1999) which suggested that there are secret underground desire cults in America that cater to celebrities or royals seeking extravagant catharsis for desires of unusual daydreams.  If Woody Allen is correct, American society would certainly espouse such 'psychiatric' expenses.

Media has the power to reflect culture and also to feed or inform or shape culture.  When we watch images on TV about violence glorification, we recognize the trends in society that makes such images profitable for TV networks, but we also feel that the unfettered distribution of such images reinforces such instincts and perhaps dangerously influences impressionable youth to glorify wildness.

The critically praised Batman (DC Comics) adapted television series "Gotham" (Fox TV), which some feel was snubbed for the Golden Globes, offers comic book fans and general TV audiences images of an American fascination with populism talk about vigilantism fantasies.  That's what comic books are all about.

Poison Ivy is introduced on "Gotham" (Fox TV), which presents origin stories of Gotham City's super-nemeses of Batman before they became what they are, as a young impressionable displaced girl named Ivy Pepper with a seeming taste for eccentricity and cynicism.

Poison Ivy is Gotham City's most eccentric eco-terrorist and a danger to Batman's sense of social safety.

Is the proliferation of Poison Ivy stories in the media and in comic books a sign of populism leverage?





 :EEK!: 

Ivy Pepper

----------


## Green Ghost

So far the *Convergence* Event will bring us two Pre-New52 Poison Ivy appearences in April.

In week 1 we'll get a Gotham City Sirens reunion:



> *CONVERGENCE: HARLEY QUINN #1*
> Written by STEVE PUGH
> Art by PHIL WINSLADE and JOHN DELL
> Cover by STEVE PUGH
> Variant cover designed by CHIP KIDD
> On sale APRIL 8 • 32 pg, FC, 1 of 2, $3.99 US • RATED T
> STARRING HEROES FROM THE PRE-FLASHPOINT DCU! Life for Harley Quinn has become downright normal over the last year. Will she be ready to go nuts when Catwoman and Poison Ivy draft her to fight – Captain Carrot?!


and in week 2 she'll be back with the Suicide Squad:



> *CONVERGENCE: SUICIDE SQUAD #1*
> Written by FRANK TIERI
> Art by TOM MANDRAKE
> Cover by JOHN PAUL LEON
> Variant cover designed by CHIP KIDD
> On sale APRIL 15 • 32 pg, FC, 1 of 2, $3.99 US • RATED T+
> STARRING HEROES FROM ZERO HOUR! When Kingdom Come’s floating fortress of New Oa threatens Metropolis, it’s up to Amanda Waller to assemble a team of Metropolis’s deadliest villains to stop it.


Source

----------


## nepenthes

Wow at that SS cover. Tieria and Mandrake and Bane and Manta and Cyborg. Yeah, there are far too many awesome books happening in Convergence  :Cool:  




> Populism contributes to festivity.
> 
> I watched the Woody Allen film "Celebrity" (1998) which suggested that famous American movie stars such as Leo DiCaprio have free reign in our paparazzi society to live out private fantasies, feeling condoned by a public that is enamored purely with cinematic dazzle.
> 
> I later watched the Roman Polanski film "The Ninth Gate" (1999) which suggested that there are secret underground desire cults in America that cater to celebrities or royals seeking extravagant catharsis for desires of unusual daydreams.  If Woody Allen is correct, American society would certainly espouse such 'psychiatric' expenses.
> 
> Media has the power to reflect culture and also to feed or inform or shape culture.  When we watch images on TV about violence glorification, we recognize the trends in society that makes such images profitable for TV networks, but we also feel that the unfettered distribution of such images reinforces such instincts and perhaps dangerously influences impressionable youth to glorify wildness.
> 
> The critically praised Batman (DC Comics) adapted television series "Gotham" (Fox TV), which some feel was snubbed for the Golden Globes, offers comic book fans and general TV audiences images of an American fascination with populism talk about vigilantism fantasies.  That's what comic books are all about.
> ...


Insightful and entertaining once again Abishai!

----------


## Abishai100

When developing countries struggling to make their economies coordinated with modern industrialization have trouble managing manmade pollution, how do we compare the acid rain production in such countries with the acid rain production in developed countries that boast 'well-managed' industrialization economies?

Since acid rain is acid rain no matter who is making it, when we see Poison Ivy enter the scene, we think about what makes Gotham City representative of traffic management.

Poison Ivy, the maniacal eco-terrorist, is the she-devil of acid rain.





 :EEK!: 

Acid Rain

----------


## Green Ghost

> Wow at that SS cover. Tieria and Mandrake and Bane and Manta and Cyborg. Yeah, there are far too many awesome books happening in Convergence


Every Convergence issue gets an variant cover designed by CHIP KIDD (which is just a close up of one of the books titular/features character with a color fade) and look who's on the variant cover for Suicide Squad:


I remember this panel from an old Suicide Squad issue.

----------


## Abishai100

For comic book fans, Poison Ivy helps us negotiate the demands of realism with the creativity of comic book art.

Eco-terrorism has become an unusual topic for our times, and Poison Ivy creates an arena in which art can stimulate wisdom!



 :EEK!:

----------


## Confuzzled

> Every Convergence issue gets an variant cover designed by CHIP KIDD (which is just a close up of one of the books titular/features character with a color fade) and look who's on the variant cover for Suicide Squad:
> 
> 
> I remember this panel from an old Suicide Squad issue.


I do remember this from SS. Ivy's characterization was all over the place but it was still leagues better than the way she is portrayed now (Puppet for male Rogues/Harley's horndog).




> For comic book fans, Poison Ivy helps us negotiate the demands of realism with the creativity of comic book art.
> 
> Eco-terrorism has become an unusual topic for our times, and Poison Ivy creates an arena in which art can stimulate wisdom!


Unfortunately, DC doesn't really know the full potential of the character.

----------


## Abishai100

Poison Ivy is a woman, a botanist, and a maniacal eco-terrorist.

We use her to understand how comic books help society characterize 'philosophy colloquialization.'





 :EEK!: 

The Toxic Avenger (Film)

----------


## Abishai100

Let's face it, without Poison Ivy, Gotham's most eccentric eco-terrorist, would we feel the same way about ageless art?



 :EEK!:

----------


## MentalManipulator

Hey Ivy fans…while we still wait for the BNA Posion Ivy to arrive…dc collectibles launched a poll wanting to know which figures we would like to see further down the line…and BTAS Ivy os one of them! It was always my favorite Ivy animated version ever so let's vote for her and maybe she'll be produced soon! 

http://www.dccomics.com/blog/2015/01...ro2_Never-fear

How great would it be to have this look done in a great sculpted action figure form:

ivy.jpg

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Hey Ivy fans…while we still wait for the BNA Posion Ivy to arrive…dc collectibles launched a poll wanting to know which figures we would like to see further down the line…and BTAS Ivy os one of them! It was always my favorite Ivy animated version ever so let's vote for her and maybe she'll be produced soon! 
> 
> http://www.dccomics.com/blog/2015/01...ro2_Never-fear
> 
> How great would it be to have this look done in a great sculpted action figure form:
> 
> ivy.jpg


Ivy one the new 52 action figure vote thing last time. So I hope she wins this one too haha.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Ivy one the new 52 action figure vote thing last time. So I hope she wins this one too haha.


She's currently second to the Ventriloquist. We need to get more folks to vote for her!

----------


## MentalManipulator

> Ivy one the new 52 action figure vote thing last time. So I hope she wins this one too haha.





> She's currently second to the Ventriloquist. We need to get more folks to vote for her!



Yes…do vote guys…she passed Zatanna …she's now the first wanted female figure! It's incredible how much Ivy is popular (at least among internet fans), powerful and politically interesting and DC always misuses her. We need a writer or editor that loves her to give her a push!

ps… If each of us takes the time and vote for her everyday she'll win for sure!

----------


## Confuzzled

> Yes…do vote guys…she passed Zatanna …she's now the first wanted female figure! It's incredible how much Ivy is popular (at least among internet fans), powerful and politically interesting and DC always misuses her. We need a writer or editor that loves her to give her a push!
> 
> ps… If each of us takes the time and vote for her everyday she'll win for sure!


Someone in the comments mentioned that the Ventriloquist votes are rigged as it increased several % in a span of 10 minutes. Meaning Ivy may actually be winning again in a fair and square way.

I still don't get how DC as a whole can be so clueless about Poison Ivy. She's such a gorgeous looking character with a fascinating psychology. And her outlook can be so rich and layered if handled properly. I've always maintained that she's like Lady Eboshi from _Princess Mononoke_, except on Nature's side. If they give her as much focus as Snyder heaps on The Joker and Riddler, she'd probably be a Top 3 Batman Villain. And that's just speaking of her in context of a Rogue. Time and again she has proved that she can be so much more.

----------


## Dylan Davison

So is the voting done? I can't seem to vote. Who won? Haha.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> Someone in the comments mentioned that the Ventriloquist votes are rigged as it increased several % in a span of 10 minutes. Meaning Ivy may actually be winning again in a fair and square way.
> 
> I still don't get how DC as a whole can be so clueless about Poison Ivy. She's such a gorgeous looking character with a fascinating psychology. And her outlook can be so rich and layered if handled properly. I've always maintained that she's like Lady Eboshi from _Princess Mononoke_, except on Nature's side. If they give her as much focus as Snyder heaps on The Joker and Riddler, she'd probably be a Top 3 Batman Villain. And that's just speaking of her in context of a Rogue. Time and again she has proved that she can be so much more.


very well said…completely agreed!




> So is the voting done? I can't seem to vote. Who won? Haha.



the vote is still up…try again! :-)

----------


## MentalManipulator

I dunno if you guys voted or not but YAY! she passed The Ventriloquist! she's the favorite by 4 percentual points :-) !! keep voting!!!

----------


## Dylan Davison

> I dunno if you guys voted or not but YAY! she passed The Ventriloquist! she's the favorite by 4 percentual points :-) !! keep voting!!!


I have been voting every day. Ivy keeps winning these things. DC should use her more in comics too haha.

----------


## MentalManipulator

thanks!!! I'm sure she's going to win…fingers crossed and we'll maybe see her sooner rather then later!

----------


## Abishai100

The American comic book has become as archaeologically valuable to cultural history as the American baseball card.

Valuation is very important these days, since we often think about how economics shapes culture (i.e., eTrade, eBay, etc.).

The Batman (DC Comics) empire should gain some degree of attention from social critics who might appreciate how Bob Kane has created a world in which the fictional maniacal eco-terrorist Poison Ivy raises eyebrows and creates creative talk about 'behavior pulpits.'

I like Poison Ivy paired with Brainiac.




 :EEK!: 

The Monkey Wrench Gang

Brainiac

----------


## The Negative Zone

> Poison Ivy is a woman, a botanist, and a maniacal eco-terrorist.
> 
> We use her to understand how comic books help society characterize 'philosophy colloquialization.'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ah yes I *appreciate*  that someone thought it was a good idea to make a doll of a superpowered eco terrorist.

----------


## SickAlice

I voted for Ivy. She's in the lead now. If no other reason than I want DC to utilize her character more than they are.

----------


## MentalManipulator

Yes!!! They need to see she has a big fan base that could increase if they gave her the "Harley" treatment

----------


## SickAlice

I hate to rag really, but currently I see her as being used as back-drop or sidekick only. I think that's a waste but others here spelled it in detail already. I know there's a bit of dissonance towards New52 material but bare with me here. Did you happen to read the 2nd Batgirl Annual? To me that was the proof of what a rich dimensional character she can be written and illustrated as, as well how elaborate and poignant a story line can be built around her. DC is missing a great opportunity by not driving her up, outside just the kind of good art pieces that could come of it. * Sorry for the edit, a bit more to ramble out * As well DC has of course taken the road of trying to emulate the style of the Vertigo books given their acclaim. Ivy would be more than suited to such artistry. Think elements of Neil Gaiman's Black Orchid if you ever read it (If not, READ EET!). She just fits New 52 on too many levels to be not be a working cog in it.

----------


## retical

> I hate to rag really, but currently I see her as being used as back-drop or sidekick only. I think that's a waste but others here spelled it in detail already. I know there's a bit of dissonance towards New52 material but bare with me here. Did you happen to read the 2nd Batgirl Annual? To me that was the proof of what a rich dimensional character she can be written and illustrated as, as well how elaborate and poignant a story line can be built around her. DC is missing a great opportunity by not driving her up, outside just the kind of good art pieces that could come of it. * Sorry for the edit, a bit more to ramble out * As well DC has of course taken the road of trying to emulate the style of the Vertigo books given their acclaim. Ivy would be more than suited to such artistry. Think elements of Neil Gaiman's Black Orchid if you ever read it (If not, READ EET!). She just fits New 52 on too many levels to be not be a working cog in it.


That was a wicked story. But I kinda feel that DC has already decided that they don't want to use Ivy. But it's cool to see her taking the lead in contests and stuff. I thought that Gotham and her popularity would lead into something but I reckon it ain't happening. Looks like she's getting the shelf treatment lol.

----------


## MentalManipulator

The poll is still up 

http://www.dccomics.com/blog/2015/01...ro2_Never-fear

Do you guys think they forgot about it? weren't they going to publish the results this week?

Well, at least she's on the lead yet

----------


## Dylan Davison

> The poll is still up 
> 
> http://www.dccomics.com/blog/2015/01...ro2_Never-fear
> 
> Do you guys think they forgot about it? weren't they going to publish the results this week?
> 
> Well, at least she's on the lead yet


I believe it seems to have stopped going up, maybe? They have all been at the same % for like two days now if I recall right.

----------


## MentalManipulator

I have the same impression as you do…but they should just close the poll already and make her victory official already…I'm getting tired of having to check it all the time to make sure she's still the winner. lol

----------


## Confuzzled

So they just forgot about the poll? Just when I thought there was a possibility of getting a BTAS Ivy figure that wasn't a clunker. The action figure was terrible. How do you go from this face



to this?

----------


## Thirteen

> So they just forgot about the poll? Just when I thought there was a possibility of getting a BTAS Ivy figure that wasn't a clunker. The action figure was terrible. How do you go from this face
> 
> 
> 
> to this?


Theres always the latter BTAS season design for Ivy, which they pretty much nailed in 2014.
animated-poison-ivy-figure.jpg

----------


## MentalManipulator

> So they just forgot about the poll? Just when I thought there was a possibility of getting a BTAS Ivy figure that wasn't a clunker. The action figure was terrible. How do you go from this face
> 
> 
> 
> to this?


LOL! I completely agree! Even thought that was expected for the time, even as a child, I always thought they could had made her prettier. Catwomam was very ugly too but then they made Harley and she was ok.

Anyway I wrote D.C. and they replied that they're going To announce the results until the end of this week!

----------


## MentalManipulator

On another subject : weren't there rumors of Ivy being featured in the Batman 66 comics? Can't seem to find any more news on it. Help?

----------


## Green Ghost

> On another subject : weren't there rumors of Ivy being featured in the Batman 66 comics? Can't seem to find any more news on it. Help?


I remember reading that she's a possibility, but haven't heard anything since then.

----------


## Green Ghost

The lack of anything involving Poison Ivy in todays post Convergence is depressing! 

Harley will get a second (limited-)series with...Power Girl! Not that I want to see Ivy written by Palmiotti again and be Harleys horny sidekick, but the fact that they choose Harley Quinn/Power Girl over a Harley/Ivy book is kinda strange...

In good news, it seems like they kinda confirmed that Harley is out of continuity with this statement:



> In this new era of storytelling, story will trump continuity as we continue to empower creators to tell the best stories in the industry.

----------


## Dylan Davison

They confirmed that awhile ago I believe. By saying this was all their favorite Harley's including the new 52 one. 

But I am very sad about the lack of Ivy. Such a waste. They could put her in something. 

I would read starfire, but the lack of continuity scares me somewhat. I mean, I don't need continuity, but I would like the starfire to be at least simular to the starfire in other places. Same for Harley. And very much so for Ivy.

A few of the new stuff will end cause they are mini series, so maybe Ivy will show up after? Hopefully. Wishful thinking maybe? Haha

----------


## Confuzzled

Bizarro, Dr. Fate and Red Hood/Arsenal get their own series, Harley gets TWO, and Ivy has none? Seems like DC is really committed to limiting her as an Arkham maniac and nothing more. Sigh.

----------


## JBatmanFan05

Hope they do a BATMAN ARKHAM: POISON IVY tpb eventually (they're doing one for Riddler).  And collect some of her best stories and rarer uncollected ones.

I might think of what I'd include.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Hope they do a BATMAN ARKHAM: POISON IVY tpb eventually (they're doing one for Riddler).  And collect some of her best stories and rarer uncollected ones.
> 
> I might think of what I'd include.


Batman #181: *Beware of Poison Ivy!* (Debut)
Secret Origins Vol. 2 #36: *Pavane* (Neil Gaiman Origin)
Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight Vol. 1 #42-43: *Hothouse*
*Batman: Shadow of the Bat 1995 Annual #3*
Batman: Shadow of the Bat #56-58: *Leaves of Green* (3-parter involving Jason Woodrue)
*Batman: Poison Ivy 1997 One-Shot* 
Batman: No Man's Land *Fruit of the Earth* 3-parter (Batman: Shadow of the Bat #88, Batman #568, Detective Comics #735)
Batman Poison Ivy: *Cast Shadows* (Ann Nocenti One-Shot)
"*Low*" (Detective Comics #797-799 backstory where she mentally and physically destroys Riddler)
*New 52 Birds of Prey #3
Batgirl Annual #2*

I just realized while compiling this list that an overwhelming bulk of quality Ivy stories came from the 90's alone when writers and artists wanted to depict her as a conflicted, layered Earth goddess. Then her stories and appearances got dumbed down once Harley came onto the scene.

----------


## LoneNecromancer

> I just realized while compiling this list that an overwhelming bulk of quality Ivy stories came from the 90's alone when writers and artists wanted to depict her as a conflicted, layered Earth goddess. Then her stories and appearances got dumbed down once Harley came onto the scene.


Has Ivy been in anything that's not the Harley comic recently? I'm not up to date on Eternal so I don't know if she's been in there or not.

----------


## JBatmanFan05

> Batman #181: *Beware of Poison Ivy!* (Debut)
> Secret Origins Vol. 2 #36: *Pavane* (Neil Gaiman Origin)
> Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight Vol. 1 #42-43: *Hothouse*
> *Batman: Shadow of the Bat 1995 Annual #3*
> Batman: Shadow of the Bat #56-58: *Leaves of Green* (3-parter involving Jason Woodrue)
> *Batman: Poison Ivy 1997 One-Shot* 
> Batman: No Man's Land *Fruit of the Earth* 3-parter (Batman: Shadow of the Bat #88, Batman #568, Detective Comics #735)
> Batman Poison Ivy: *Cast Shadows* (Ann Nocenti One-Shot)
> "*Low*" (Detective Comics #797-799 backstory where she mentally and physically destroys Riddler)
> ...


One pre-COIE 2-issue story I'd ad or substitute in (never collected before):
Batman #367 (January 1984): "The Green Ghosts of Gotham" 
Detective Comics #534 (January 1984): "Brambles"

What about**:
Batman: Shadow of the Bat #56 (November 1996): "Leaves of Grass, Part 1: Twin Peaks" 
Batman: Shadow of the Bat #57 (December 1996): "Leaves of Grass, Part 2: Reefer Madness" 
Batman: Shadow of the Bat #58 (January 1997): "Leaves of Grass, Part 3: Comedown!"

----------


## nepenthes

^ Good call on Brambles! 




> Batman #181: *Beware of Poison Ivy!* (Debut)
> Secret Origins Vol. 2 #36: *Pavane* (Neil Gaiman Origin)
> Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight Vol. 1 #42-43: *Hothouse*
> *Batman: Shadow of the Bat 1995 Annual #3*
> Batman: Shadow of the Bat #56-58: *Leaves of Green* (3-parter involving Jason Woodrue)
> *Batman: Poison Ivy 1997 One-Shot* 
> Batman: No Man's Land *Fruit of the Earth* 3-parter (Batman: Shadow of the Bat #88, Batman #568, Detective Comics #735)
> Batman Poison Ivy: *Cast Shadows* (Ann Nocenti One-Shot)
> "*Low*" (Detective Comics #797-799 backstory where she mentally and physically destroys Riddler)
> ...


Nice, this is pretty comprehensive (I'd only scratch the Batgirl Annual). At the risk of revealing the Ivy geek in me I'd add just a few more somewhat obscure but very character driven issues. You are very right, the more writers push the weed-witch "grasses are crying" angle, the less interesting she becomes. Her best stories ultimately have very human motivations at the core; revenge, greed, humiliation, self-empowerment.  

_Poison_, *Solo #6*: Ivy as the archetypal female play-thing of men, told only as Brian Azzarello can, illustrated by the master Jordi Bernet    
_Nature_, *Gotham Central #32*: Orphan mother brutally slaughters a couple of crooked cops who are leaning on her kids; up their with _Black Orchid_ for Ivy at her most terrifying.
_Green Ghost/Brambles_, *Batman 367, Tec 534*: Vintage hating-on-the-man Ivy is literally slapped around and strangled by enforcers of the corporate establishment, Batman & Robin (Pre-Crisis Jason!). Beautifully drawn by Gene Colan and Don Newton. 
_Tears of Blood_: *Batman #529*, one issue from the Contagion crossover that works well enough on it's own. Why include it? Kelly Jones. Single greatest depiction of Ivy's lethal attraction ever. In a classic double cross and blackmail plot. 

I'm probably missing a couple from Templetons DCAU and Ostranders Squad Squad, but I'll have to come back to these later.

----------


## Confuzzled

I think I just forgot about Brambles. The only reason I didn't include GC #32 was because she appears at the end, though I admit it's one of her better appearances in the 00's. Not a big fan of the Contagion issue. And I deliberately left out all the DCAU stories.

And why would you have reservations about revealing your inner Ivy geek?  :Stick Out Tongue:  I had no clue that Azzarello story existed until now, so thanks for that!

----------


## Confuzzled

Yesterday, Comics Alliance put up a poll asking which DC lady deserves her own solo series and guess who's winning as usual?  :Big Grin: 

http://comicsalliance.com/poll-which...own-solo-book/

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Yesterday, Comics Alliance put up a poll asking which DC lady deserves her own solo series and guess who's winning as usual? 
> 
> http://comicsalliance.com/poll-which...own-solo-book/


She really does need one. I hope one is in the works. But if not I will be asking about it at SDCC if I can. (like usual haha).

----------


## The_Greatest_Username

Looks like Poison Ivy is going to be joining the Suicide Squad as of issue #9!
I'm glad to see her on a regular title again.

----------


## MentalManipulator

Good news! hope they do her justice and hope with this poll and all the others she keeps winning they realize ho much fan base and potential she has to receive a proper treatment in comics, merchandise and other media.

----------


## Confuzzled

YAY! I've been wanting her to join the Squad since before New 52.



Hmm, I hope the book will delve into the deep psyches of its characters instead of just showcasing their powers. The writer better know there is a million times more to Poison Ivy than just "bending anyone to her will".

----------


## Punisher007

On the one hand, it's cool that Ivy (and Cheetah) will be a major player in a book again.  On the other hand, a SS without Deadshot just doesn't feel like SS to me.  He's the one who should always be there.

----------


## Confuzzled

It's interesting that they are taking on none other than ISIS. Explains why this Squad in particular is so stacked with powerhouses. Waller pulling out all the stops. 

Though I'm more fascinated in seeing a Poison Ivy vs. Boko Haram story where she rescues kidnapped women and children from the clutches of the terrorist outfit.

----------


## Dylan Davison

Yes! Yes! Yes! A new book for Ivy. I am excited. I hope they write her right. Excited!

----------


## MentalManipulator

Excited for the new SS!!! loving the artwork there! 
Kind of sad they didn't post the poll results nowhere or even hinted at her Animated Series being made in the future. Hope they get to her sooner rather then later...

----------


## Confuzzled

> Kind of sad they didn't post the poll results nowhere or even hinted at her Animated Series being made in the future. Hope they get to her sooner rather then later...


Yeah, that was a bummer. Maybe DC is tired of Ivy winning all these polls!  :Wink:

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Excited for the new SS!!! loving the artwork there! 
> Kind of sad they didn't post the poll results nowhere or even hinted at her Animated Series being made in the future. Hope they get to her sooner rather then later...


They might wait till SDCC to say who the winner is. And to announce the figure. Who knows.

----------


## Abishai100

*The Trouble-Maker*

Poison Ivy goes dressed up as a normal researcher and attends the Gotham City industrialism leaders charity event for the city's police department in recognition of a new line of electric police cars being made by the companies on the guest/host list.  Poison Ivy goes as her researcher alter ego carrying a politically eco-conscious 'Acid-Rain Shield' labelled umbrella.

When her criticisms about industry-rich companies' continuing pollutions draws offense, she quickly reveals herself to be Poison Ivy and that her umbrealla is also a machine gun.  She steals all the money from the event's police-related fundraised money coffer.

Yep, she gives eco-terrorism a completely shocking face.


 :EEK!:

----------


## Abishai100

I'd like to see a Marvel-DC cross-over romance between Poison Ivy and either Sandman or Doctor Doom.

Poison Ivy + Doctor Doom: "Don't mind my boyfriend, he's crazy..."
Poison Ivy + Sandman: "I never know where he is..."


Can Batman and Rogue (X-Men) offer a substantial challenge to this Poison Ivy pairing?



 :EEK!:

----------


## MentalManipulator

> They might wait till SDCC to say who the winner is. And to announce the figure. Who knows.


fingers crossed for that!

----------


## Confuzzled

> They might wait till SDCC to say who the winner is. And to announce the figure. Who knows.





> fingers crossed for that!


Guys, it would be lovely if that happens but... I strongly suggest not counting on it.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I'd like to see a Marvel-DC cross-over romance between Poison Ivy and either Sandman or Doctor Doom.
> 
> Poison Ivy + Doctor Doom: "Don't mind my boyfriend, he's crazy..."
> Poison Ivy + Sandman: "I never know where he is..."


Hehe, Ivy with a Marvel villain. What an interesting pairing.

But isn't it obvious who her ideal match would be? Magneto, of course! Both of them fighting the treacherous homo sapiens discriminating and oppressing their respective kinds, both of them with noble but misguided goals in life, both of them with complex psyches. They have soo much in common in their views of a decadent and greedy society. One is the Goddess of the Earth, the other is the Messiah of Absolute Evolution. The Earth sustains Evolution, Evolution enhances the Earth. A perfectly symbiotic relationship if there ever were one.

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Guys, it would be lovely if that happens but... I strongly suggest not counting on it.


Idk, they showed of the last Ivy figure designs and announced it at SDCC the year before last. When she won the new52 figure contest. I think it could happen. And if not, if I get into the panel, I will try to ask them about it.

----------


## MentalManipulator

I love your optimism! Yay!

----------


## MentalManipulator

Did you guys see the trailer of Arkham Knight Game?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpXUIh7rlWI

Ivy seems to have a big role. but I'm not sure what to think about her look….she looks beautiful but that hair….it's a haired a 16 old an american girls would do to go to the mall. Weird for the character , especially how otherworldly she looked in the previous games. Does anyone know if this takes place before the other installments?

----------


## The_Greatest_Username

Yeah, I'm not too crazy about the new look either. The hair and face were the good parts of her look from the first two games. I would've preferred she change out of the shirt by now.

----------


## Project Initiative Cascada

> Yeah, I'm not too crazy about the new look either. The hair and face were the good parts of her look from the first two games. I would've preferred she change out of the shirt by now.





> Did you guys see the trailer of Arkham Knight Game?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpXUIh7rlWI
> 
> Ivy seems to have a big role. but I'm not sure what to think about her look….she looks beautiful but that hair….it's a haired a 16 old an american girls would do to go to the mall. Weird for the character , especially how otherworldly she looked in the previous games. Does anyone know if this takes place before the other installments?


Ugh why is Ms. Ivy still wearing that horrid Arkham Asylum jacket? Also I agree that she doesn't look too great. Her face looks a bit old.

I really wish they gave her and Harley better more faithful comic costumes in these games (As much as I love the Arkham series)

----------


## Frontier

Yeah, you'd think by now Ivy would've actually changed into her costume instead of continuing to wear her prison jacket but I guess that's effectively her Arkham look which is why she keeps it  :Stick Out Tongue: .

Anyone pick up Secret Origins today? It had an Ivy section that I thought was pretty good, and the art was quite nice  :Smile: .

----------


## Dylan Davison

Omg that issue of Secret Origins was great! I was worried it was going to be bad. But they did Ivy well. And that art. I mean look at it:

Secret Origins #10 (2015) - Page 37.jpg

They even got the black eyes. I am so loving this SO issue. I have high hope they will use Ivy right from now on, I hope haha.

----------


## GoingPostal

> Anyone pick up Secret Origins today?


Just finished it. That's nicely done and a good read indeed.

The part with Babs too was fun.

----------


## OBrianTallent

I would have loved for them to have given Ivy her own series rather than putting her in Suicide Squad.  Sejic would have been a perfect artist for it too!

----------


## Frontier

The only question I have about her origin is how she managed to get a job at Wayne Industries considering she had a criminal record, and especially considering what she had been arrested for. Though considering the management of the company before Bruce took over, I guess it's not too surprising...

----------


## Confuzzled

I told you guys to have faith in Christy Marx.  :Smile:

----------


## gwhh



----------


## JBatmanFan05

I still prefer her pre-FP origin per Gaiman and etc.  I hate how they try to connect every villain origin to Bruce/Wayne Ent.  I'm sticking with her old origin.

The super abusive home (father killing mother) is too common for me too, I preferred her old emotionally distant parents.


Many New 52 origins fail to impress over the prior.

----------


## GoingPostal

Love that pic from secret origins :

----------


## PopCultureArt

Ivy Is so underrated. I can see if she appeared in the New "Suicide Squad" maybe for a cameo with the rest of the Rogues Gallery or in the Solo Ben Affleck Batman Movie that she'll start getting more attention. The Ivy on "Gotham" is myeh, I feel that if we saw more of Ivy in the show, doing more than just hanging out in Barbra's flat more Ivy fans would be more interested in the show.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Ivy Is so underrated. I can see if she appeared in the New "Suicide Squad" maybe for a cameo with the rest of the Rogues Gallery or in the Solo Ben Affleck Batman Movie that she'll start getting more attention. The Ivy on "Gotham" is myeh, I feel that if we saw more of Ivy in the show, doing more than just hanging out in Barbra's flat more Ivy fans would be more interested in the show.


Ivy already was a prominent member of previous incarnations of the Suicide Squad. Hopefully she is a part of the Squad in the sequel (there are bound to be open spots at the end of the film). And Jessica Chastain would make for the perfect Poison Ivy. She's even voiced an interest in playing a superpowered character in a superhero movie.

As for Gotham, considering the age of the character, I'm actually surprised at the amount of Ivy we ARE getting. Also like the young actress's commitment to the character:




I agree that she is ridiculously underrated by fanboys who would rather constantly worship at the feet of Batman's male Rogues. IMO Poison Ivy is at this point in time the most interesting female villain in superhero comics. Catwoman is not really a villain, Harley has been reduced to a joke character and over at Marvel, Mystique has become incredibly staid and one-note and Enchantress and Typhoid Mary have been forgotten about.

----------


## Dylan Davison

> I told you guys to have faith in Christy Marx.


After Birds I had a hard time trusting her. But she did great! Her plus Sejic was a great idea. I would be alright with DC letting them work on Ivy in the future.

I mean the art and story was amazing in such a short amount of pages.

----------


## Confuzzled

> After Birds I had a hard time trusting her. But she did great! Her plus Sejic was a great idea. I would be alright with DC letting them work on Ivy in the future.
> 
> I mean the art and story was amazing in such a short amount of pages.


Yeah I don't get why she didn't just continue Ivy's backstory in BOP, especially with regards to the biosuit. But I guess editorial must have forced some of the characters like Talon on her.

She's the creator of Jem though, so she'll always be good by me.  :Smile:

----------


## GoingPostal

> I feel that if we saw more of Ivy in the show, doing more than just hanging out in Barbra's flat more Ivy fans would be more interested in the show.


If the overall quality of the show was a bit higher more people would be interested in the show. I think that's the key problem here to bring more people.

----------


## TheDarkKnightReturns

> Ivy already was a prominent member of previous incarnations of the Suicide Squad. Hopefully she is a part of the Squad in the sequel (there are bound to be open spots at the end of the film). And Jessica Chastain would make for the perfect Poison Ivy. She's even voiced an interest in playing a superpowered character in a superhero movie.
> 
> As for Gotham, considering the age of the character, I'm actually surprised at the amount of Ivy we ARE getting. Also like the young actress's commitment to the character:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *I agree that she is ridiculously underrated by fanboys who would rather constantly worship at the feet of Batman's male Rogues.* IMO Poison Ivy is at this point in time the most interesting female villain in superhero comics. Catwoman is not really a villain, Harley has been reduced to a joke character and over at Marvel, Mystique has become incredibly staid and one-note and Enchantress and Typhoid Mary have been forgotten about.


Which is a shame since is she probably the most powerful enemy that Batman has in his rogues galley. She has actual superpowers unlike most Batman's villains.



Bane, Killer Croc should be easy mode compared to her. Lest hope Batman Arkham Knight can help her cause.

----------


## Abishai100

Poison Ivy makes a stand against Gotham City's corrupt industrial pollution and markets a line of purified bottled water with money she stole and under a false pseudonym.

What the people of Gotham City do not know is that her bottled water contains an odorless and tasteless drug which makes them addicted to her particular brand of water.

She becomes rich and is elected the mayor of Gotham City and on coronation-day, she reveals to the shocked people that she is actually Poison Ivy and her method to promote eco-awareness far surpasses the work of other social leaders such as Bruce Wayne and of the Dark Knight himself.





 :EEK!: 

poison-ivy-bottle.jpg

----------


## Confuzzled

> Poison Ivy makes a stand against Gotham City's corrupt industrial pollution and markets a line of purified bottled water with money she stole and under a false pseudonym.
> 
> What the people of Gotham City do not know is that her bottled water contains an odorless and tasteless drug which makes them addicted to her particular brand of water.
> 
> She becomes rich and is elected the mayor of Gotham City and on coronation-day, she reveals to the shocked people that she is actually Poison Ivy and her method to promote eco-awareness far surpasses the work of other social leaders such as Bruce Wayne and of the Dark Knight himself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There were two Ivy stories similar to this concept in the 90's animated universe: the BTAS episode "Eternal Youth" and the TNBA based comic book titled "Eden's Own".

----------


## Confuzzled

> Which is a shame since is she probably the most powerful enemy that Batman has in his rogues galley. She has actual superpowers unlike most Batman's villains.
> 
> 
> 
> Bane, Killer Croc should be easy mode compared to her. Lest hope Batman Arkham Knight can help her cause.


Yup, she is the easily the most "BOSS"-like among Batman's foes. But she has cooties so of course majority of the fanboys will never rank her very high in their sausage heavy power lists.

----------


## Stormcrow

Just got to read Ivy's story from Secret Origins, I'd been putting it off due to Christy Marx writing... Her _Birds of Prey_ run was a disaster, so I was wary of it to say the least. That said, I was pleasantly surprised with how it turned out.

I like how it followed up on the origin from the Villains Month issue while incorporating a new story, she captured Ivy's voice pretty good and Stjepan Šejić art was AMAZING. I wouldn't mind seeing these two handle an ongoing, actually.

My only complaint would be that they included the _Firestorm_ story in this issue, which I couldn't care less for. Wish they would've kept the Harley story for this one, or get Genevieve Valentine to do Catwoman and keep it Gotham girls-centric.

----------


## K. Jones

Ivy's great and that secret origin was way better than I expected it to be. Ivy's power levels are pretty crazy compared to Batman so it's no wonder she's usually downplayed, but then it kind of works for her. She's not inherently evil, her goals are actually kinda righteous, and the fact she hasn't leveled entire cities means she's actually pretty selective about her targets when she gets mean.

It hasn't been done much at all but I feel like there's potential for a hell of a nuanced Wonder Woman vs. Poison Ivy story at some point.

----------


## Abishai100

Poison Ivy scares Batman more than most of his nemeses, simply because she not only carries water-guns filled with poison as a gesture to convey eco-terrorism colloquialization but also because she believes (like a maniac) that physical glamour is connected to political wrath.




 :EEK!:

----------


## MentalManipulator

I wrote DC Collectibles regarding some quality issues with my Wave 1 figures and asked them about Ivy. Kevin Kinirky replied this "As for Ivy, we can’t give away all of our good characters right off the bat  :Smile:  You may have to wait a little while for her but she will be coming." So…bummed that they'll hold to release her as a lure for people to keep buying the line but yay for her confirmation in their plans.

----------


## MentalManipulator

alsowhen is the new suicide squad with Ivy begin?

----------


## Dylan Davison

> alsowhen is the new suicide squad with Ivy begin?


It said June, but the info for issue 9 does not say the new team. Maybe they show up at the end. I will be getting issue 9 just in case.

----------


## Homme

> Which is a shame since is she probably the most powerful enemy that Batman has in his rogues galley. She has actual superpowers unlike most Batman's villains.
> 
> 
> 
> Bane, Killer Croc should be easy mode compared to her. Lest hope Batman Arkham Knight can help her cause.


I... I did not realize she was capable of such feat  :EEK!: 
Where are those panels from, if I may ask?

----------


## Project Initiative Cascada

> I... I did not realize she was capable of such feat 
> Where are those panels from, if I may ask?


I know it's from the last issue of Gotham City Sirens. Can't quite recall the exact number but it was a good ending to the series. Ivy has a strong showing in it.

----------


## SickAlice

Ivy has a lot of enormous feats historically. As a general rule when a character is given fine control over some basic thing in life their feat scale is going to go high.

----------


## Confuzzled

So with Batman crimefighting in a mecha now, it adds another new dimension to the Nature vs. Industrialization theme of conflict between Ivy and Bats. The time is ripe for a big event with Ivy as the Big Bad, or in this case, Big "Bad".

----------


## Dylan Davison

> So with Batman crimefighting in a mecha now, it adds another new dimension to the Nature vs. Industrialization theme of conflict between Ivy and Bats. The time is ripe for a big event with Ivy as the Big Bad, or in this case, Big "Bad".


Idk, while I like the idea, I am not sure I want robat vs Ivy yet. Maybe later. Plus Ivy should be busy soon doing stuff for Suicide Squad.

----------


## Abishai100

A maniacal female eco-terrorist surely reminds us 'analysts' of Gotham City that crime is related to caffeine.




 :EEK!: 

funguerilla.com

ivy.jpg

----------


## TheDarkKnightReturns

> I... I did not realize she was capable of such feat 
> Where are those panels from, if I may ask?


Gotham City Sirens last issue just before the New 52.

----------


## PwrdOn

Poison Ivy has always been far and away my favorite villainess of all time, though you could perhaps even argue that she's been in the right this whole time.  After all, everybody should appreciate and care for the environment, and while her methods may be extreme, ever since the 90s the same has been true of most of the characters labeled as heroes.  Among comic book redheads, and there are quite a few of those, she probably has the most iconic look.  I personally prefer the classic costume of the leaf leotard and green stockings, she somehow manages to pull it off brilliantly even though you would think it would come out looking trashy as hell.  And she has remained mostly recognizable despite the shift in character focus from seductress to environmentalist, two words you wouldn't really expect in the same sentence, and blends the two very effectively meaning she's much more versatile than you would expect from a character who started off just as a one-note gimmick.

One thing I don't like is how dismissively she's usually treated in stories, especially the older ones.  Even though her wide range of powers should make her one of the most formidable of the rogues gallery, for the most part Batman and the other heroes view her with contempt and condescension.  After her wacky scheme of the week has been foiled, we're usually treated to some patronizing monologue about how Batman doesn't want to have to hit her but he absolutely has to because....reasons.  And whenever she's matched up against a female character it always ends up somehow devolving into a hand to hand fight where the heroines have no trouble wiping the floor with Ivy.  For someone with such a range of abilities and a ruthless streak to match, she's never quite presented as the kind of awe-inspiring threat that she could potentially be.

----------


## Dr. Cheesesteak

I too have loved Ivy for as long as I can remember.

I started the new Batman Miniatures Game recently and chose Ivy as my Leader!  I may post some pics of the band (or just of her) once it's all done and painted down the road.

----------


## Abishai100

*Avatar for Acquisitions*



Poison Ivy (DC Comics) is a terrific character to make all kinds of artistic connections with, since, of course, she is a very effective 'diplomat' of lifestyle inquisitiveness.

Of course, she is an eco-terrorist, so we don't want to start making comments such as, "Leatherface, the iconic American horror film avatar from Tobe Hooper's shocking film, probably carries a chainsaw to stalk people instead of using it to rip down trees --- all in the name of Mother Nature."

Ya remember Leatherface --- from "The Texas Chainsaw Massacre" (1974).

However, Poison Ivy does have more style and elegance so we can make unusual allowances for our pedestrianism curiosities about 'velcro vanity.'



 :EEK!: 

Ivy Pepper


jolie-ivy.jpg

----------


## Abishai100

There are stories in the real world of human societies taking real initiative to integrate Earth-consciousness with lifestyle.

The Mohegan tribe (a Native peoples) have opened their own casino and resort center, hoping to combine capitalism successes with a philosophical podium for egalitarian values.

For many years, rural villagers of India use cow manure substances to thatch the roofs of their huts, since these materials are great air-flow weaves.

Does Poison Ivy care?  I don't think so.  It seems a super-villain such as Poison Ivy would be eerily focused on big city companies taking advantage of consumer gluttonies to create consumption mascots such as the Marshmallow Man and hypocritically produce movies about eco-omens.

I can't decide if Poison Ivy gives me a wake-up call or just the willies...



 :EEK!: 

Earthen Anthropology

poison-ivy.jpg

----------


## Dylan Davison

Here is the variant cover with Joker for suicide squad. It has Poison Ivy on it! I really want this cover, it looks great. How much extra will this cost lol.

NSS-Cv9-Joker-var-064bf.jpg

----------


## Confuzzled

> Here is the variant cover with Joker for suicide squad. It has Poison Ivy on it! I really want this cover, it looks great. How much extra will this cost lol.
> 
> NSS-Cv9-Joker-var-064bf.jpg


Yeah, I was just going to post that. But I'm even more confused now. The new team is featured on the variant for Suicide Squad #9 but the solicits and main cover point to the old team being featured in the book. What's the deal? Is it like a New 52 BoP #2 kinda situation where Ivy's team makes its debut at the end of the issue?

----------


## Celgress

Another great character that I've enjoyed for years. Batman certainly has a great supporting cast and dynamic rogues gallery, not many weak links.

----------


## PwrdOn

If it's possible to score Jessica Chastain to play Poison Ivy in a future film then that should definitely be explored.  She's not going to do the same kind of campy, over the top performance in the Uma Thurman style, and if Zero Dark Thirty proved anything she can certainly play a cold-blooded psychopath.  Granted, a bona fide superheroine might be more in her wheelhouse and my preference was originally to have her play Jean Grey in a rebooted X-Men series, but she could certain provide a more sympathetic angle on Ivy's character.  And arguably this is something that we need to see more of, especially now that climate change is on everyone's mind.

----------


## Confuzzled

> If it's possible to score Jessica Chastain to play Poison Ivy in a future film then that should definitely be explored.  She's not going to do the same kind of campy, over the top performance in the Uma Thurman style, and if Zero Dark Thirty proved anything she can certainly play a cold-blooded psychopath.  Granted, a bona fide superheroine might be more in her wheelhouse and my preference was originally to have her play Jean Grey in a rebooted X-Men series, but she could certain provide a more sympathetic angle on Ivy's character.  And arguably this is something that we need to see more of, especially now that climate change is on everyone's mind.


Imagine Jessica Chastain as Ivy in Suicide Squad 2, opposite Viola Davis, Margot Robbie, Will Smith and Jared Leto! Mindblowing. Especially if they take on an edgier subject in the sequel like the Squad taking on real-life terrorist groups like ISIS or Boko Haram. Chastain has openly said she wanted to play an "incredible villain" in a superhero movie and a complex and layered Poison Ivy suits her just fine.

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Yeah, I was just going to post that. But I'm even more confused now. The new team is featured on the variant for Suicide Squad #9 but the solicits and main cover point to the old team being featured in the book. What's the deal? Is it like a New 52 BoP #2 kinda situation where Ivy's team makes its debut at the end of the issue?


Ya, that could be what happens. Who knows, maybe they are showing up as a backup team half way though. I am going to get the issue even if she just shows up at the end.

----------


## Abishai100

I want to arm Poison Ivy with a water-gun, since I'm confident she would parade it around in the streets of Gotham City saying something like, "If you had a soul, Gotham, then this water-gun would actually kill you."




 :EEK!: 

Little Shop of Horrors



water-pistol.jpg

----------


## MentalManipulator

> Imagine Jessica Chastain as Ivy in Suicide Squad 2, opposite Viola Davis, Margot Robbie, Will Smith and Jared Leto! Mindblowing. Especially if they take on an edgier subject in the sequel like the Squad taking on real-life terrorist groups like ISIS or Boko Haram. Chastain has openly said she wanted to play an "incredible villain" in a superhero movie and a complex and layered Poison Ivy suits her just fine.


Wowthat would be mindblowing! Althought a lot os people are speculating she could be a candidate to play Medusa in the Inhumans movie.

----------


## PwrdOn



----------


## MentalManipulator

> 


Perfection

----------


## PwrdOn

One of the cool aspects of Ivy's animated incarnations was her occasional use of henchgirls instead of the usual entourage of pheromone-addled goons or plant monsters.  Unfortunately, the girls weren't much use in a fight and were easily taken down along with their mistress.  I find it at least mildly amusing that at least in the earlier TAS episode, Batman was still apparently on some sort of honor code and did them the "courtesy" of merely tying them up instead of actually striking them.

----------


## Abishai100

Let's look at actresses who have portrayed Poison Ivy:

1. Uma Thurman -- a very clever Ivy in the Hollywood (USA) movie "Batman and Robin" (1997)

2. Clare Foley -- a wry and brooding young Ivy in the celebrated television series "Gotham" (Fox TV)

3. Diane Pershing, Piera Coppola, Jennifer Hale -- voice talents on the Batman animated programs (i.e., _Batman: The Brave and the Bold_)




Maybe Christopher Nolan should have cast an actress such as Mila Kunis to portray Poison Ivy in his movie "The Dark Knight Rises" (2012).

While the Penguin and Joker have nifty dastardly (and deadly) toys, Poison Ivy (like Scarecrow) uses deadly toxins and plays with chemicals.

The actresses who portray Poison Ivy have to convince us that they are knowledgeable in chemistry (and ecology).

She's an under-rated character to portray; there's great potential there for an actress interested in conveying the social intrigue surrounding eco-terrorism.







 :EEK!: 

Clare Foley --- "Gotham" (Fox TV)


detective-comics.jpg

----------


## Confuzzled

Something just occurred to me. In the "Rotworld" event, it was revealed that Jason Woodrue existed in the New 52 universe and had ties to Ivy as he appeared in a panel with her. Now the Christy Marx origin actually erased Woodrue's involvement in Pamela's transformation, cutting off his strongest tie to her. Wondering how Poison Ivy associated herself with Floronic Man despite him into playing a part in her creation. Unless the Rotworld image was just a one-off image and DC has no plans for Woodrue in the future.

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Something just occurred to me. In the "Rotworld" event, it was revealed that Jason Woodrue existed in the New 52 universe and had ties to Ivy as he appeared in a panel with her. Now the Christy Marx origin actually erased Woodrue's involvement in Pamela's transformation, cutting off his strongest tie to her. Wondering how Poison Ivy associated herself with Floronic Man despite him into playing a part in her creation. Unless the Rotworld image was just a one-off image and DC has no plans for Woodrue in the future.


Woodrue has returned, he became the avatar of green in Swamp Thing, and he went by a new name, The Seeder, or something like that lol. I don't think her new origin erases there connection together as a possibility (at least not in my eyes), Ivy could have still worked with him in the past. He could have still been the jerk he was. 

Did we actually ever see her getting her powers in the new 52? I can't recall to be honest haha.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Woodrue has returned, he became the avatar of green in Swamp Thing, and he went by a new name, The Seeder, or something like that lol. I don't think her new origin erases there connection together as a possibility (at least not in my eyes), Ivy could have still worked with him in the past. He could have still been the jerk he was. 
> 
> Did we actually ever see her getting her powers in the new 52? I can't recall to be honest haha.


I thought she got her powers when Bruce fired her and she ran back to her lab to grab all the mind control pheromone research that she could grab before Wayne Industries could destroy it, accidentally causing the chemicals to fall all over her in her hurry.

----------


## MentalManipulator

Now that my favourite Marvel female has a confirmed movie apearence I'm dying to see my favorite DC female, Ivy, on the big screen. Maybe in a Suicide Squad sequel. Jessica Chastain would be my first pick. Who would you guys like? 
Also did Ivy make more appearances in the Gotham series?

----------


## Vinsanity

I would like to see Ivy in Batgirl and in Grayson. Actually would be funny to see her in Grayson.

----------


## Confuzzled

Teen Titans Go! variant for New Suicide Squad #10 by Craig Rousseau

----------


## Dylan Davison

Ya, I was going to say whatever, but that is such a cute cover and a cute Ivy, I may have to get it. I will wait to see what the real cover is for 10.

----------


## Starchild

She's one of the many reasons why I'll be picking up the New Suicide Squad run in June. Although, I miss her more exotic look. The new one completely grew on me. I just wish that DC would do more villain titles, she would be perfect.

----------


## Stormcrow

That's a fun cover but I  would have preferred it if they'd gone for a different look for this one, the New 52 costume never grew on me and the variants are sometimes the only way we can see the more "classic" versions of the characters nowadays.

I loved the design for the Super Best Friends Forever animation series (for which I need to get the statue!), wish we could have seen more of it.

----------


## Dylan Davison

> That's a fun cover but I  would have preferred it if they'd gone for a different look for this one, the New 52 costume never grew on me and the variants are sometimes the only way we can see the more "classic" versions of the characters nowadays.
> 
> I loved the design for the Super Best Friends Forever animation series (for which I need to get the statue!), wish we could have seen more of it.



I disagree about the new costume (but that just my opinion haha), but I would not mind seeing Ivy in her old costume in figures, variants and cartoons. 

I loved her in the best friends short, agreed with you on that.

But I think this new costume adds a lot to her character, and gives her the power to fight no matter where she goes, since it's a living suit. Don't get me wrong, I have loved every costume she has had, but I think the new52 one is one of the best designed ones, and one of the best new52 redesigns. But this is just my opinion of course haha.




> She's one of the many reasons why I'll be picking up the New Suicide Squad run in June. Although, I miss her more exotic look. The new one completely grew on me. I just wish that DC would do more villain titles, she would be perfect.



I am really excited to see her in Suicide Squad, hopefully if it sels enough we will see more Poison Ivy.

----------


## Green Ghost

Guys, heroic Poison Ivy is still a thing  :Big Grin: :



> JUSTICE LEAGUE UNITED #11
> jlu11.jpg
> Written by Jeff Parker, art by Travel Foreman, cover by Andrew Robinson.
> 
> The Convergence is over! Now, Alanna Strange, Stargirl and Equinox must assemble brand-new and wildly untraditional teams of heroes and villains to work together and stop another cosmic catastrophe before it happens. In this issue: Mera, Poison Ivy, Swamp Thing and Etrigan!
> 
> 32 pages, $3.99, in stores on July 8.

----------


## Green Ghost

> I am really excited to see her in Suicide Squad, hopefully if it sels enough we will see more Poison Ivy.


Strange thing is she's only on the variant covers, while the normal covers only feature the old team included Harley.

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Guys, heroic Poison Ivy is still a thing :


Yay! With Swamp Thing on there though....why would they need both.

Also is she on Suicide Squad. Other then Variants and that one image, we have not seen or heard about her. I don't know if I should order it or not, not that she is in United.

I wonder how long she will be in that? I hope for a while!

Edit, it's Travel Forman on art. He has done Ivy before. Here is a example:
#11page16-17.jpg
from Birds of Prey.

----------


## Dylan Davison

So I tweeted the writer of Suicide Squad, and this is what he had to say, when I asked him about Ivy:
Screenshot_2015-04-21-21-11-00-1.jpg
*(And yes, before you say anything, I did spell solicitations, wrong. My phone did that haha)*

I also asked Parker about if Ivy was joining for more then one issue or if it was a rating cast. He liked the tweet, but did not reply. But it seems to be just one issue. New info has come out making Ivy and the others just guest star in issue 11. Oh well. At least it's something haha.

Anyways it may be October before we see Ivy and the new team. Depending on how long this arc is (they have been in arcs of 4, so far, so 9/June, 10/July, 11/August, 12/September). It will be a while, but I am excited.

----------


## Confuzzled

I hope it's not October. Why announce the new team this far ahead?  :Confused:

----------


## Dylan Davison

> I hope it's not October. Why announce the new team this far ahead?


I have no idea. 

The announcement made it seem like the new team started with issue 9, but looks like the writer had one more arc planned with the old team haha. If this arc is 4 issues, then it won't be till October. I am not sure if I can see it being less then that, and so far since New Suicide Squad started they have had 4 issue arcs. I was hoping for something earlier too XD.

But oh well. I kinda hope that Ivy is in United for a whole arc, that way we can have her in something in till October haha. But we shall see. United sounds like each issue will have different guest stars, but I hope I am wrong.

----------


## Green Ghost

> So I tweeted the writer of Suicide Squad, and this is what he had to say, when I asked him about Ivy:
> Screenshot_2015-04-21-21-11-00-1.jpg
> *(And yes, before you say anything, I did spell solicitations, wrong. My phone did that haha)*
> 
> I also asked Parker about if Ivy was joining for more then one issue or if it was a rating cast. He liked the tweet, but did not reply.


Thanks for asking!




> I hope it's not October. Why announce the new team this far ahead?





> I have no idea. 
> 
> The announcement made it seem like the new team started with issue 9, but looks like the writer had one more arc planned with the old team haha. If this arc is 4 issues, then it won't be till October. I am not sure if I can see it being less then that, and so far since New Suicide Squad started they have had 4 issue arcs. I was hoping for something earlier too XD.


The Suicide Squad thing is really confusing, because the variant covers already show the new team...well, the good thing is, we'll see some different artist drawing the New52 Ivy  :Smile: 




> But oh well. I kinda hope that Ivy is in United for a whole arc, that way we can have her in something in till October haha. But we shall see. United sounds like each issue will have different guest stars, but I hope I am wrong.


The text also says that they are building new teams, so chances are that some characters will stay...and Ivy is the only one mentioned who's also on the cover, so thats something  :Smile:

----------


## Green Ghost

And in more positive Ivy news:



> *WB and DC Entertainment in Partnership with Mattel Launch 'DC Super Hero Girls'*
> 
> A New Super Hero Universe Designed Just For Girls, Slated For Fall 2015
> 
> Mattel to Launch Companys First Action Figures for Girls
> 
> Unprecedented Initiative to Include Digital Content, TV Specials, Made-For-Videos, 
> Publishing, Toys, Apparel and Other Products
> 
> ...

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Thanks for asking!


No problem!




> The Suicide Squad thing is really confusing, because the variant covers already show the new team...well, the good thing is, we'll see some different artist drawing the New52 Ivy


Ya, I think it was going to start with 9, which is why the variants have them, but it changed later and they kept the covers. But I am excited to see how she looks in the comic.




> The text also says that they are building new teams, so chances are that some characters will stay...and Ivy is the only one mentioned who's also on the cover, so thats something


I am hoping she stays, but her being on Suicide Squad would make me think not, it's hard to believe they would put her in two different teams. But who knows! I would love it! And am hoping she joins both. It would be good for both books to explore Ivy.




> And in more positive Ivy news:


She looks so cute! I am glad dc is doing this. Way to go.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> And in more positive Ivy news:


That looks really cute, they all look great! I hope girls will be happy with these new products!

----------


## Confuzzled

> And in more positive Ivy news:


I can spot the Elsa braid in that Ivy hairdo!  :Big Grin:

----------


## PwrdOn

It's interesting to see Ivy portrayed there as a straight up heroine instead of an antagonist, I guess when you're marketing to little girls it's pretty tough to spin someone who loves plants and wants to save the environment as a villain.

----------


## Dylan Davison

Hey guys, Gail Simone tweeted this today! 
Screenshot_2015-05-02-00-07-28-1.jpg
https://twitter.com/GailSimone/statu...20807183323137

I would love Gail on a Poison Ivy solo seroes, or just a solo series as well. If DC is putting story before continuity then I hope a Ivy series will happen at some point haha. Wishful thinking maybe. But I am glad to see even a creator want this lol.

But if you have Twitter, if you want, you could retweet this or favorite it. Show Gail some love for her wanting this, and to show that the fans are out there lol.

----------


## PwrdOn

wut

----------


## Confuzzled

Gail Simone is winning some major points off-late with me by voicing her desires to focus on my most favourite parts in Marvel and DC comics: the Spider-Man and Mary Jane relationship and Poison Ivy respectively.

Having said that, if she really wanted to see Ivy in a more prominent, anti-hero role so much, wonder why she didn't include her on _Secret Six_. That title could do with a big name like Ivy. Was it because Poison Ivy was already booked for _Suicide Squad_? Seeing how _Six_ came out much before the announcement of the new _Squad_ roster, don't know if that's possible.

----------


## Confuzzled

> wut


Lol the personalities do match though, at least on a superficial level.  :Big Grin:  And the DC Super Hero Girls Ivy design seems heavily inspired by Elsa as well. Especially the look from the _Frozen Fever_ short.

----------


## retical

Not convinced about Poison Ivy in Suicide Squad. 
A common complaint about the new writer (Sean Ryan) is that his characters are flat and one-dimensional and the book has some very bad reviews.
I read a couple of preview pages from past issues and it looks like total garbage.

----------


## PwrdOn

> Lol the personalities do match though, at least on a superficial level.  And the DC Super Hero Girls Ivy design seems heavily inspired by Elsa as well. Especially the look from the _Frozen Fever_ short.


Honestly at this point there doesn't seem to be a single comic book character that doesn't have some kind of Elsa mashup floating around.  I suppose that's because Elsa is very much the personification of the heroine with a thousand faces, purposely crafted to embody all of the characteristics of appealing female leads across every kind of story, which would also explain her near-universal popularity.

Ivy seems an odd match at first but there are definitely common threads there.  For one thing, Ivy has always possessed an uncanny degree of class and elegance in total defiance of her backstory as mousy lab rat turned seductress.  For another, even though you would never think so from reading the comics, her powers are mostly benevolent and really only have limited application toward combat or destruction, yet are inexplicably seen by others with fear and hostility, which in turns provokes a similar response in kind.

----------


## Enigmatic Undead



----------


## PwrdOn

That picture is really a beautiful depiction of Poison Ivy as just this goddess figure whose neither good nor evil but just someone who goes her own way and doesn't have any discernible agenda.  That would also make her a more formidable character, with the implication that like nature she can't really be stopped and that those who harm her will only end up hurting themselves.  As a plain old villainess she's not the most threatening foe because while her powers do have some use in combat, they are a pretty inefficient and cumbersome means of attack.  On top of that, her vines, plant monsters, and giant Venus flytraps tend to be pretty fragile, because writers want to summon up an army of henchmen that can be torn to shreds because they're "not people."

A lot of times, Ivy's diabolical plot is foiled and she ends up in a straight up fight with only basic armament, like the wrist crossbow she likes to use.  She did manage to score a pistol to take on non-powered superheroine Thorn in the Lois Lane backup feature, but is easily disarmed and knocked out.  Against male opponents she can make better use of her pheromones, but those only ever work so many times, and Batman is rarely in a mood to be gentlemanly with her, though he always pays lip service to it by saying she's too dangerous for that or something.  The instance that really struck me though, was in Shadow of the Bat Annual #3.  In one scene she's harassing a civilian woman when suddenly the tables turn and Ivy goes from her haughty persona to getting slammed through a table, head over heels by a woman who gets accidentally shot and taken out of the picture the next page.  In the main plot the tables are turned and Ivy goes from seductress to smitten with Batman, who is for his part "completely immune to your charms."  She really comes off more as the victim of the piece, a deranged individual who's a threat only to herself, and this oddly makes her more likable because as with all beautiful women you hope that she can somehow get it together and live happily eventually.

While it may be in poor taste to recount Ivy's most humiliating defeats in an appreciation thread, it can also be a way to celebrate how far she's come since then, to the point where's she's fit to be part of a girls' toy line in a heroic role, and seems to take on a new persona in every adaptation.  Still though, I wouldn't mind seeing the classic version of Ivy pop up once in a while, perhaps she could start recruiting environmentalist-minded young women who wish to serve Mother Nature.  They could start off being written more like the human Ivy but over time develop more qualities picked up from their mistress.  And the seduction angle could shift from being overtly chemical to something more along the lines of the Consort from Mass Effect with her cadre of acolytes, though maybe in a more natural and less unsettling way.  Their main role would be caring for their mistress, tending her garden, working in the lab, or acting as legitimized cover for her activities for the human world, though they could fight in a pinch.  From time to time, she could use them as proxies, a potential retconning tool for inconsistent characterization.

And for some reason I now have this idea floating around of her in conflict with some insane cult led by a Pat Robertson type televangelist who is always droning on about people being "controlled by the vegetables."

----------


## Confuzzled

Diamond Select Toys released the preview of their BTAS Poison Ivy Femme Fatales figurine:



She's a beauty, isn't she? Figure available in the fall.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Honestly at this point there doesn't seem to be a single comic book character that doesn't have some kind of Elsa mashup floating around.  I suppose that's because Elsa is very much the personification of the heroine with a thousand faces, purposely crafted to embody all of the characteristics of appealing female leads across every kind of story, which would also explain her near-universal popularity.
> 
> Ivy seems an odd match at first but there are definitely common threads there.  For one thing, Ivy has always possessed an uncanny degree of class and elegance in total defiance of her backstory as mousy lab rat turned seductress.  For another, even though you would never think so from reading the comics, her powers are mostly benevolent and really only have limited application toward combat or destruction, yet are inexplicably seen by others with fear and hostility, which in turns provokes a similar response in kind.


Well after Batgirl Annual, there's an even bigger parallel. Elsa's mental state can change the season while the change of season can affect Ivy's mental state!  :Stick Out Tongue:  Also, both women can create monsters from the natural element they can control (snow and plant) to protect themselves. 

I agree that Elsa is a very elegant mosaic of multiple female tropes, which is probably why she has become such a universally adored character. I think many of us here are saying the same thing regarding DC's cluelessness with Ivy. She already is multifaceted: seductress, shrinking violet, force of nature, environmentalist, protective mother, psychotic criminal, scientist, feminist. So why isn't DC giving us the definitive Poison Ivy story arc or series that we, and SHE, deserve?

----------


## Dr. Cheesesteak

> Not convinced about Poison Ivy in Suicide Squad. 
> A common complaint about the new writer (Sean Ryan) is that his characters are flat and one-dimensional and the book has some very bad reviews.
> I read a couple of preview pages from past issues and it looks like total garbage.


believe me, you aren't the only one thinking that...

And b/c I said I would, here's my Ivy gang in the Batman Miniature Game (not painted by me).  So far, I'm 0-2   :Frown: 
2015-05-09_19-25-05_229.jpg

----------


## PwrdOn

> Well after Batgirl Annual, there's an even bigger parallel. Elsa's mental state can change the season while the change of season can affect Ivy's mental state!  Also, both women can create monsters from the natural element they can control (snow and plant) to protect themselves. 
> 
> I agree that Elsa is a very elegant mosaic of multiple female tropes, which is probably why she has become such a universally adored character. I think many of us here are saying the same thing regarding DC's cluelessness with Ivy. She already is multifaceted: seductress, shrinking violet, force of nature, environmentalist, protective mother, psychotic criminal, scientist, feminist. So why isn't DC giving us the definitive Poison Ivy story arc or series that we, and SHE, deserve?


It is even more curious because Elsa was originally written as a cackling villain before "Let it Go" convinced the writers that she should be portrayed as a sympathetic figure instead.  Granted, she doesn't really do anything all that heroic in the film, her actions were still reckless and caused a ton of collateral damage and probably at least a few deaths, and her people wouldn't have been so quick to let that go, pun intended, if not for her beauty or her lineage.  


http://samy-draws26.deviantart.com/a...uinn-521706659

----------


## Dylan Davison

Here is the Bombshell variant cover for New Suicide Squad issue 11 in August. I love Bombshell Ivy!

----------


## Green Ghost

> *HARLEY QUINN ROAD TRIP SPECIAL #1*
> 
> Written by AMANDA CONNER and JIMMY PALMIOTTI
> Art by BRET BLEVINS and others
> Cover by AMANDA CONNER
> 1:25 Variant cover by BRET BLEVINS
> On sale AUGUST 26 • 48 pg, FC, $5.99 US • RATED T
> Retailers: This issue will arrive in stores with two covers. Please see the order form for details.
> It’s the great American summer tradition, but you’ve never seen a road trip quite like this before! Harley, Ivy, and Catwoman are burning rubber across the U.S. of A! We recommend you all stay off the roads for the month of August, just to be safe.


Source

ugh, Ivy written by Palmiotti again...

----------


## Dylan Davison

Well at least we know it's out of the main continuity now haha. Since DC is continuity lite. Normally I would be really excited to read something with the sirens, so I don't know, maybe if the previews look good. We shall see. This could be a nice fun story. I am a positive person I guess haha.

----------


## Dylan Davison

Poison Ivy joins Batman'66! At last! Been waiting for this!

BM_66_Cv26.jpg

BATMAN ‘66 #26
Written by JEFF PARKER
Art by LUKAS KETNER
Cover by MICHAEL ALLRED
On sale AUGUST 26 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US • RATED E • DIGITAL FIRST
Can it be? Is Louie the Lilac really pushing up daisies? Batman’s investigation of the criminal’s apparent demise leads him to the abandoned Isley Nursery. But it’s a floral trap that awaits the Dynamic Duo as they encounter a new villainess, the one and only Poison Ivy!

----------


## Green Ghost

> Poison Ivy joins Batman'66! At last! Been waiting for this!
> 
> Attachment 22321
> 
> BATMAN ‘66 #26
> Written by JEFF PARKER
> Art by LUKAS KETNER
> Cover by MICHAEL ALLRED
> On sale AUGUST 26 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US • RATED E • DIGITAL FIRST
> Can it be? Is Louie the Lilac really pushing up daisies? Batman’s investigation of the criminal’s apparent demise leads him to the abandoned Isley Nursery. But it’s a floral trap that awaits the Dynamic Duo as they encounter a new villainess, the one and only Poison Ivy!


This makes me happy and the cover is lovely  :Smile:

----------


## Green Ghost

> Well at least we know it's out of the main continuity now haha. Since DC is continuity lite. Normally I would be really excited to read something with the sirens, so I don't know, maybe if the previews look good. We shall see. This could be a nice fun story. I am a positive person I guess haha.


That sums up my feelings about this!

----------


## Green Ghost

Ivy's not on the cover, but Justice League United sounds great:



> JUSTICE LEAGUE UNITED #12
> Written by JEFF PARKER
> Art by TRAVEL FOREMAN
> Cover by TONY HARRIS
> Blank variant cover
> On sale AUGUST 12 • 32 pg, FC, $3.99 US • RATED T
> Retailers: This issue will ship with two covers. Please see the order form for details.
> A mission to save our world from cosmic calamity has separated Swamp Thing from the Green, threatening to destroy him forever. Only an improbable team of heroes and villains, *led by Poison Ivy*, can traverse conflicting realities and save Earth’s plant elemental from non-existence.

----------


## Dylan Davison

She leads the team!

JLU_12.jpg

JUSTICE LEAGUE UNITED #12
Written by JEFF PARKER
Art by TRAVEL FOREMAN
Cover by TONY HARRIS
Blank variant cover
On sale AUGUST 12 • 32 pg, FC, $3.99 US • RATED T
Retailers: This issue will ship with two covers. Please see the order form for details.
A mission to save our world from cosmic calamity has separated Swamp Thing from the Green, threatening to destroy him forever. Only an improbable team of heroes and villains, led by Poison Ivy, can traverse conflicting realities and save Earth’s plant elemental from non-existence.


Oops did not see that you posted it haha. Got to excited :P. Wonder how log she will be the leader.

----------


## MentalManipulator

Great month for Ivy!!! excited for August…she looks stunning in the Batman 66 cover

----------


## Confuzzled

I am a little disappointed with the '66 Ivy design to be honest. Was expecting something a bit more distinctive than her "pre-green" look. The classic wreath of leaves around her head goes well with the tone of the '66 show so was hoping it would figure into her design.

Oh well, at least the story sounds fun, and her being the leader in JLU #12 is incredibly exciting as well.

----------


## PwrdOn

It would be cool to see the old Bettie Page inspired Ivy look for the '66 comic.  That picture was the first one I found but it's interesting too to see the other influences that went into her creation.

----------


## Confuzzled

> It would be cool to see the old Bettie Page inspired Ivy look for the '66 comic.  That picture was the first one I found but it's interesting too to see the other influences that went into her creation.


Yeah, I have read the article that compiled those photos of Ivy inspirations before. Don't remember if I pasted a link to the write-up in this thread. It's interesting that such different types of femininity were inspirations while creating Poison Ivy. Definitely underlines what we were discussing earlier regarding the parallels between Ivy and Elsa when it comes to their broad and diverse appeal being a result of both being blends of multiple female tropes in pop-culture.

----------


## retical

> Source
> 
> ugh, Ivy written by Palmiotti again...


Definitely ignoring this. I wonder if Conner is really involved outside covers. Over the top sexist crap with plenty of eye candy to "get the hands pumpin".

----------


## Dr. Cheesesteak

> Definitely ignoring this. I wonder if Conner is really involved outside covers. Over the top sexist crap with plenty of eye candy to "get the hands pumpin".


I didn't realize there was discontent w/ Palmiotti here.  The only experience I have of Palmiotti writing Ivy is in Harley Quinn.  Is there some other example of his that is over-the-top sexist?  B/c I never saw it in HQ...

----------


## retical

> I didn't realize there was discontent w/ Palmiotti here.  The only experience I have of Palmiotti writing Ivy is in Harley Quinn.  Is there some other example of his that is over-the-top sexist?  B/c I never saw it in HQ...


Perhaps sexist is the wrong word but, come on, every single Ivy panel is a sex joke or she appers in underwear LOL  :Wink:  I'm fine with sexy stuff  :Cool:  And I'm sure they will deliver some hot girl on girl lovin very soon  :Cool:  No discontent w/ Palmiotti. Jonah Hex is my favourite. My post was a bit tongue in cheek.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I didn't realize there was discontent w/ Palmiotti here.  The only experience I have of Palmiotti writing Ivy is in Harley Quinn.  Is there some other example of his that is over-the-top sexist?  B/c I never saw it in HQ...


Like retical said, Palmiotti Ivy is not really sexist but kind of infantilized and reduced to being Harley's sidekick/wink wink love interest.

I don't think it would be an issue at all if Ivy had more appearances in other titles, or at the least, regular instances of great characterization. Unfortunately, appearances are few post her BoP exit, and great examples of characterizations even fewer. This is a character who many people feel is meaty enough to carry her own solo series, Gail Simone included and as the results of these polls show: 

http://comicsalliance.com/poll-which...own-solo-book/

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=poll&id=227

So it makes sense why fans would be annoyed when they see the great potential of such a character squandered and mainly used as a shallow caricature.

----------


## Dr. Cheesesteak

> Perhaps sexist is the wrong word but, come on, every single Ivy panel is a sex joke or she appers in underwear LOL  I'm fine with sexy stuff  And I'm sure they will deliver some hot girl on girl lovin very soon  No discontent w/ Palmiotti. Jonah Hex is my favourite. My post was a bit tongue in cheek.





> Like retical said, Palmiotti Ivy is not really sexist but kind of infantilized and reduced to being Harley's sidekick/wink wink love interest.


I can see that.  The thing for me is I don't take the comic too serious.  It's intended to be sort of comic-relief, almost satirical if that's the appropriate word.  Facetious for sure.  So I don't mind the characterization as much.





> I don't think it would be an issue at all if Ivy had more appearances in other titles, or at the least, regular instances of great characterization. Unfortunately, appearances are few post her BoP exit, and great examples of characterizations even fewer. This is a character who many people feel is meaty enough to carry her own solo series, Gail Simone included and as the results of these polls show: 
> 
> http://comicsalliance.com/poll-which...own-solo-book/
> 
> http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=poll&id=227
> 
> So it makes sense why fans would be annoyed when they see the great potential of such a character squandered and mainly used as a shallow caricature.


Now this I can agree with.  She made a brief appearance in 'Tec and Swamp Thing (and Arkham War?) but I was thinking of what else I could read that she's in, besides BoP, Secret Origins, Villains Month, etc.  

I was also trying to think of good older Ivy arcs in general and all I could think of was Gotham City Sirens?  I mean, you're right, I think she has great potential to lead an epic Batman or other Gotham title arc/case.

----------


## PwrdOn

The Harley and Ivy dynamic can certainly be a lot of fun, but casting her as this kind of materialistic socialite couldn't possibly be more against what she represents.  So while it's interesting to see in bits and pieces, it has to be balanced out by more thoughtful and serious stories as well.

There may be a political dimension at work here as well.  Ivy has always been cast as this radical extremist whose ideas are terrifying, but sufficiently unrealistic to be easily dismissed.  Or at least they were back when she was introduced, in terms of the wider culture war Ivy is arguably cleaning Batman's clock right now, young people these days are more environmentally conscious than ever while nearly all of the values that the Dark Knight stands for are being systematically demolished.  Even the brutal suppression of petty street crime has come into the national spotlight and all of a sudden Batman looks more like George Zimmerman than some heroic crusader for justice.  At the same time though, Time Warner is still very much on the establishment side of things, I don't think a "Poison Ivy takes on global warming" storyline would sit too well with the people in charge there.

----------


## Confuzzled

> There may be a political dimension at work here as well.  Ivy has always been cast as this radical extremist whose ideas are terrifying, but sufficiently unrealistic to be easily dismissed.  Or at least they were back when she was introduced, in terms of the wider culture war Ivy is arguably cleaning Batman's clock right now, young people these days are more environmentally conscious than ever while nearly all of the values that the Dark Knight stands for are being systematically demolished.  Even the brutal suppression of petty street crime has come into the national spotlight and all of a sudden Batman looks more like George Zimmerman than some heroic crusader for justice.  At the same time though, Time Warner is still very much on the establishment side of things, I don't think a "Poison Ivy takes on global warming" storyline would sit too well with the people in charge there.


While it's true that Ivy's philosophies are still popular (they were at their pinnacle of popularity in the 90's however, which was probably why the portrayals of Ivy started becoming more sympathetic), Batman is hardly "George Zimmerman". I mean, the man is synonymous with "No Guns". And Bruce is responsible enough to accurately gauge the level of threat and then retaliates accordingly.

But back to Ivy, WB just released a big budget anti-patriarchy and anti-capitalist movie in _Mad Max: Fury Road_, where the heroes majorly comprised of women breaking free from oppression and trying to bring back life and fertility (including via plant seeds) to a world driven barren and diseased by nuclear wars. So yes, while they are consumerist, I don't think Time Warner would be against anti-establishment tales as long as they are refreshing and engaging. I have a feeling that the talent at DC though has no idea what to do with Poison Ivy. And that's what is holding her back. General ignorance and lack of creativity as opposed to more sinister agendas.

----------


## Dylan Davison

Here she is, from the preview, United:
1432714494608.jpg

I forgot how good Travels Ivy looks. Not a speaking role in the preview, but she is on the last page up front.

----------


## Confuzzled

Here's the new Arkham Knight video prominently featuring Poison Ivy. She has been written more in character than in that Forever Evil bullshit, as here she isn't interested in joining up for the other villains' petty nonsense:

----------


## Frontier

Was hoping we'd get a boss fight with Ivy, but I can understand why she'd just be tired and give up after Batman got loose. Not worth the effort  :Wink: .

----------


## Project Initiative Cascada

> Was hoping we'd get a boss fight with Ivy, but I can understand why she'd just be tired and give up after Batman got loose. Not worth the effort .


Is that the only time we will see Dr. Isley in the game?  Or will she be assisting Batman? I hope Batman didn't imprison her again.

----------


## Frontier

> Is that the only time we will see Dr. Isley in the game?  Or will she be assisting Batman? I hope Batman didn't imprison her again.


He took her to the GCPD lockup, so presumably that's the last we'll see of Ivy in the game, at least as an active villain. It seems like we might get moments like that for each of the Rogues Gallery in the game, where Batman catches them and then delivers them to GCPD cells. 

Though I would hope the game might allow you to at least visit the cells and talk with the villains post-capture  :Smile: .

----------


## Immortal Weapon

I liked how Ivy wasn't fazed by anything. Her capture, the city being in ruins, being apprehended by Batman. She treats it all like a typical Monday.

----------


## Dylan Davison

http://www.mtv.com/news/2170715/pois...=share_twitter

MTV did an article on the #PoisonIvyLeague and the want for a Poison Ivy series. As someone who has been using that hashtag for a long while now, this is pretty cool. Our voices are getting heard by some people at least haha.

But even if she does not get her own series, I am excited to see her shine in Suicide Squad and Justice League United, I hope she stays on both titles for as long as she can. Or in till she gets her own ongoing haha.

----------


## Confuzzled

> http://www.mtv.com/news/2170715/pois...=share_twitter
> 
> MTV did an article on the #PoisonIvyLeague and the want for a Poison Ivy series. As someone who has been using that hashtag for a long while now, this is pretty cool. Our voices are getting heard by some people at least haha.
> 
> But even if she does not get her own series, I am excited to see her shine in Suicide Squad and Justice League United, I hope she stays on both titles for as long as she can. Or in till she gets her own ongoing haha.


Haha, it's great to see this gaining such traction. That Ivy image in the background of the article is all kinds of gorgeous. Fan art?

----------


## Green Ghost

> Here she is, from the preview, United:
> 1432714494608.jpg
> 
> I forgot how good Travels Ivy looks. Not a speaking role in the preview, but she is on the last page up front.


She looks beuatiful there! Can't wait for the title, because this is the direction I always wanted for her. But with all the other characters, I am afraid she wont be on the team for long.




> Here's the new Arkham Knight video prominently featuring Poison Ivy. She has been written more in character than in that Forever Evil bullshit, as here she isn't interested in joining up for the other villains' petty nonsense:


I like her overall look and attitude, but there are two things I don't like:
1. Beside the hair she still has the same look the third time in a row. I know that the shirt changes a little and that the look has become significant for the character. But Harley get's so many diffrent outfits over the three games (we even get Harleen in Origins), that I wish the would've put a little more efford into Ivy's look.
2. Why is she captured/locked away so often? She is captured by Scarecrow, she let herself capture by Batman so she'll be locked away by the GCPD and in the Harley DLC she must be freed by Harley because she is locked away in Blüdhaven. For my taste she is too often in need of other people to save her, while she should be handle to help herself (like in the video when she knoked out the guard).

But other than this, I'm really looking forward to this game  :Smile: 




> Is that the only time we will see Dr. Isley in the game?  Or will she be assisting Batman? I hope Batman didn't imprison her again.


I don't thing this'll be all we see of Ivy. They wouldn't spoil a whole storyline for a famous villain in a video before the game is released....at least I hope so.




> http://www.mtv.com/news/2170715/pois...=share_twitter
> 
> MTV did an article on the #PoisonIvyLeague and the want for a Poison Ivy series. As someone who has been using that hashtag for a long while now, this is pretty cool. Our voices are getting heard by some people at least haha.
> 
> But even if she does not get her own series, I am excited to see her shine in Suicide Squad and Justice League United, I hope she stays on both titles for as long as she can. Or in till she gets her own ongoing haha.


It is nice to see Poison Ivy get some attention. Hope it woun't repell other people because of this demanding nature.




> Haha, it's great to see this gaining such traction. That Ivy image in the background of the article is all kinds of gorgeous. Fan art?


It is an official wallpaper from the DC Infinite Crisis game. These are usually really nice and there are more versions of Ivy! Find them here

----------


## LastActionHero

So many Ivy pics in one place! <3
But i have to admit, I like fan-art more than the comics.

----------


## The_Greatest_Username

I wish they would update Ivy's costume a little bit in the new Arkham game. I do like that they redid her character model, but she's been wearing that same shirt for three games now.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Why is she captured/locked away so often? She is captured by Scarecrow, she let herself capture by Batman so she'll be locked away by the GCPD and in the Harley DLC she must be freed by Harley because she is locked away in Blüdhaven. For my taste she is too often in need of other people to save her, while she should be handle to help herself (like in the video when she knoked out the guard).


Yeah and in Arkham City, she was rescued by Catwoman. The Sirens have always helped each other out but I see that the games have used only Ivy in the damsel in distress role so that the other two ladies get to be her knights of sorts.




> It is nice to see Poison Ivy get some attention. Hope it woun't repell other people because of *this demanding nature.*


I love how the puns just roll off naturally.  :Stick Out Tongue: 




> It is an official wallpaper from the DC Infinite Crisis game. These are usually really nice and there are more versions of Ivy! Find them here


Whoa, this is sweet! She looks like Megan Fox in the first one there, haha.

----------


## nepenthes

I forgot that Travel Foreman was doing JLU with Lemire and that ridiculous cast. That book's gonna be insane.

----------


## PwrdOn

Alas, there is but one "brave" soul standing between Ivy and world domination...

----------


## Confuzzled

Pat should know that freedom is just a kiss away.

----------


## Frontier

> Yeah and in Arkham City, she was rescued by Catwoman. The Sirens have always helped each other out but I see that the games have used only Ivy in the damsel in distress role so that the other two ladies get to be her knights of sorts.


Though at least she was a boss in Asylum  :Smile: .

----------


## Confuzzled

> Though at least she was a boss in Asylum .


Yup, that was pretty cool.

----------


## byrd156

> Yeah and in Arkham City, she was rescued by Catwoman. The Sirens have always helped each other out but I see that the games have used only Ivy in the damsel in distress role so that the other two ladies get to be her knights of sorts.


Ivy was all by herself in AC, Catwoman went to her for help to break into Strange's vault. Catwoman never rescued her, because Ivy was never in any danger. After fighting her henchmen she helps you and then that's that. That's the only time you see her and she seemed like she just wanted to be away from everyone else.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Ivy was all by herself in AC, Catwoman went to her for help to break into Strange's vault. Catwoman never rescued her, because Ivy was never in any danger. After fighting her henchmen she helps you and then that's that. That's the only time you see her and she seemed like she just wanted to be away from everyone else.


In the AC prelude comics, Warden Sharp leaves Ivy to die in an airtight cell in the ruins of Arkham Asylum after the Joker poisons her with Titan overdose (apparently this Ivy isn't so immune to toxins *facepalms*). Ivy prepares an antidote for herself and survives, so Sharp locks her in a containment unit and ships her off to AC. On the way, Catwoman intercepts the transport and rescues Ivy and takes her to Gotham Central Park. However, during the proceedings of the game, Ivy is mad at Selina because she broke her promise to water her plants on Arkham Island.

Later on of course, Mad Hatter kidnaps both Sirens along with Vicki Vale and Carpenter and brainwashes them to fight Batman as _Alice in Wonderland_ characters.

----------


## Dylan Davison

http://www.newsarama.com/24757-se-ny...ion-panel.html

Ray Fawkes said he think Poison Ivy deserves a solo title. So we have Gail wanting it and Ray wanting it. It needs to happen haha.

----------


## Dr. Cheesesteak

> http://www.newsarama.com/24757-se-ny...ion-panel.html
> 
> Ray Fawkes said he think Poison Ivy deserves a solo title. So we have Gail wanting it and Ray wanting it. It needs to happen haha.


I'd love to see Fawkes write it if he's open to.  Maybe w/ Travel Foreman on art (free him up from JLU) or get Andrea Sorrentino back for a gritty, earthy feel.  For a more traditional style, maybe Lupacchino or Stephane Roux?  Trevor McCarthy would be amazing on an Ivy title, I think.

edit:
also, has it been discussed how great it'll be that she'll be in 2 team books simultaneously (or at least hopefully simultaneously)?  NSS and JLU...right?

----------


## Dylan Davison

> I'd love to see Fawkes write it if he's open to.  Maybe w/ Travel Foreman on art (free him up from JLU) or get Andrea Sorrentino back for a gritty, earthy feel.  For a more traditional style, maybe Lupacchino or Stephane Roux?  Trevor McCarthy would be amazing on an Ivy title, I think.
> 
> edit:
> also, has it been discussed how great it'll be that she'll be in 2 team books simultaneously (or at least hopefully simultaneously)?  NSS and JLU...right?


Well we know she is in it for the first arc of Justice League United at least. But I hope she stays after that. And she starts on NSS after October. But I am really excited for both. And hope this shows how popular she is and leads into a series and kinda how it worked for Harley.

But I would love for Ray or Gail wrote the series. Glad they want one for her, but not sure if they are interested in writing it haha. But I would love it. Foreman does a great new52 Ivy art. So I would be down for that.

----------


## Confuzzled

I hope that if they do release a solo, it is with a creative team who has a strong vision for the series, as opposed to just rushing an Ivy title because people want it. If the latter happens and if the book tanks because of compromised quality, then we may never see a Poison Ivy solo ever again.  :Frown:

----------


## See No Evil

I can see Poison Ivy working as a protagonist in a miniseries, not in a ongoing. And besides that, if a ongoing means Batman losing his best female villain, i'd really rather not.

----------


## Stormcrow

> I can see Poison Ivy working as a protagonist in a miniseries, not in a ongoing. And besides that, if a ongoing means Batman losing his best female villain, i'd really rather not.


When was the last time she was used as a Batman villain in the comics, though? Hush?

She's basically been in in team books ever since, from Gotham City Sirens to Birds of Prey and now with JLU and Suicide Squad. As well as acting as almost a co-lead in Harley Quinn's book. I think that she's kinda outgrown the Batman villain moniker, just like Harley did.

I'd love to see Gail Simone's take on her as a solo book, she did good work with her on the last Batgirl Annual. I wish Stjepan Sejic was available, too. His work with Ivy on her Secret Origins story was fantastic.

----------


## Dylan Davison

> I can see Poison Ivy working as a protagonist in a miniseries, not in a ongoing. And besides that, if a ongoing means Batman losing his best female villain, i'd really rather not.


Someone can still be a villain and have an ongoing. And it's not like she is getting much use as a Batman villain, other then showing up to help Batman a few times, she has only had one story in a Batman title. She has already moved on to something more then a Batman villian. But this is just my opinion. And you have yours which is okay. Different people like different things haha.





> I'd love to see Gail Simone's take on her as a solo book, she did good work with her on the last Batgirl Annual. I wish Stjepan Sejic was available, too. His work with Ivy on her Secret Origins story was fantastic.


Gail would be amazing, and so would Sejic. They both seem to love Ivy. But I think some other talent could also do a great Job too. Travel, or the artists on Birds of Prey.




Anyways, bleeding cool did an article on the Poison Ivy League:

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/06/...isonivyleague/

----------


## nj06

Question: Is Poison Ivy currently a "hero" or a villain?

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Question: Is Poison Ivy currently a "hero" or a villain?


She is currently a mix of both, an anti hero ish kinda character. She does kill people, but only people who are "bad" in her eyes and do bad (as seen in the Secret Origin issue) but it seems like she is about to lead the JLU for a bit, so maybe she won't be as bad. She has also helped Batman out a bunch and has saved people. So an anti hero is kinda what she is currently.

----------


## Green Ghost

BleedingCool has posted an article about the "Girlfriend"-situation with Harley, which I am trying to ignore, since I don't like Palmiotti's fanservice-writing and don't see the HQ book as canon...BUT, the beginning of the article is the important part:




> There have been many a call for a Poison Ivy comic book – and word reaches me that DC Comics are indeed planning such a venture in the near future. Maybe for Big October? Maybe. But it is in the works.


Bleeding Cool has a pretty good track record when it comes to comic scoops, so I'll get my hopes up a little!

----------


## Confuzzled

Hopefully it's not by the Palmiottis lol.

And ugh at Johnston's idea about Ivy joining ISIS. That's completely antithetical to who she is. I could actually see her run down Boko Haram for "polluting" the sanctity of Nigeria's Sambisa forest and save kidnapped women and girls from their clutches, Imperator Furiosa style.

----------


## Dylan Davison

Ya, no, that Harley is in her own little world in that series, at least to me haha. So I am not taking that as fact for all comics haha. I doubt that their relationship (other then friends) would show up outside Harley's comic. Unless it is written by Palmiotti or Conner. I have nothing but respect for both those writers, but I hope they don't write the Ivy series. I have loved a lot of their work, they are talented. And I understand why people would like Harley's comic. So I have no ill feelings for that series or them, it's just not my cup or tea.

So far we have seen Ivy outside of Harley series and they never talked about it, plus to be honest I doubt they will ever mention that they are dating or girlfriends in Harley's comic as well. He could have just said that to please the fans, who knows. But whatever, like I said, that comic is kinda in its own world.

You know, when I think about it, I am not against them dating, in whatever way they want. I think as long as that is not all a character is. 

But I hope Bleeding Cool is right about a new Ivy series coming! I am so ready for this. I will be asking about it in July at comic con. So hope we can get some news then.

----------


## Green Ghost

> Hopefully it's not by the Palmiottis lol.
> 
> And ugh at Johnston's idea about Ivy joining ISIS. That's completely antithetical to who she is. I could actually see her run down Boko Haram for "polluting" the sanctity of Nigeria's Sambisa forest and save kidnapped women and girls from their clutches, Imperator Furiosa style.


Yeah, his ideas from the article are the worst...but I like your Furiosa-style plot! In fact, I did drew a Mad Max/Ivy mash-up after I saw the movie.




> Ya, no, that Harley is in her own little world in that series, at least to me haha. So I am not taking that as fact for all comics haha. I doubt that their relationship (other then friends) would show up outside Harley's comic. Unless it is written by Palmiotti or Conner. I have nothing but respect for both those writers, but I hope they don't write the Ivy series. I have loved a lot of their work, they are talented. And I understand why people would like Harley's comic. So I have no ill feelings for that series or them, it's just not my cup or tea.
> 
> So far we have seen Ivy outside of Harley series and they never talked about it, plus to be honest I doubt they will ever mention that they are dating or girlfriends in Harley's comic as well. He could have just said that to please the fans, who knows. But whatever, like I said, that comic is kinda in its own world.
> 
> You know, when I think about it, I am not against them dating, in whatever way they want. I think as long as that is not all a character is. 
> 
> But I hope Bleeding Cool is right about a new Ivy series coming! I am so ready for this. I will be asking about it in July at comic con. So hope we can get some news then.


I love Conners art, but I don't have alot of respect for Palmiotti. His work is often infantile and just fan-service with cartoon violence and sex-references. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the book sometimes as stupid fun and the first issue of Starfire wasn't that bad, but it's the way he teated Ivy that makes me disrespect him. They dumped her down to Harley's sidekick and personal assistant. And while there are some cute friendship-moments between the two, the constant sexual-undertone really turns me off. I just hate that there can't be just a pure friendship...why the need to sexualize everything, especially with female characters? Are there stories like that for Blue Beetle & Booster Gold? I don't think so.
But I think I said these things here before, but I need to get it out of my system from time to time  :Wink: 

I also hope for some good news at Comic-Con (and an Ivy book by Palmiotti would be bad news and I would rather have no book then) and I am still hopefull we get some. Would be cool to see Power Torch asking about a Poison Ivy book and getting a positive answer  :Big Grin:

----------


## Dylan Davison

I will keep you guys posted if I learn anything as it happens. If I get to ask about Ivy (sometimes I don't make it to the mic, like last year..) I will for sure post here as soon as I am done asking. Hopefully it will be good news though. 

People want this, and they are wanting it more lately. News articles, creators tweeting about it, fans using hashtags. I hope it all works out. I am a hopeful kinda guy, so I am hoping for something in October haha.

----------


## retical

I'm too hoping for something in October. I agree that while I love Conner's art, Palmiotti writes a horrible Ivy. It's like he hasn't read anything with her. I think that Ivy's part in Harley Quinn was written for a different character and they just decided to bring Ivy without changing the dialogue or plot. Perhaps originally they thought of Terra and simply reuse dialogue and plot. I don't know who is this character but it's definitely not Ivy.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I'm too hoping for something in October. I agree that while I love Conner's art, Palmiotti writes a horrible Ivy. It's like he hasn't read anything with her. I think that Ivy's part in Harley Quinn was written for a different character and they just decided to bring Ivy without changing the dialogue or plot. Perhaps originally they thought of Terra and simply reuse dialogue and plot. I don't know who is this character but it's definitely not Ivy.


Maybe it's a clone like in the Animated verse!  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Green Ghost

I posted on twitter that there is nothing with Poison Ivy in the September Solicitations beside a Scooby-Doo Team-Up (LOL), but then Rich Johnston of BleedingCool replied:




> wait for Big October





> something is happening with PI, that I know.


after I asked if it's not just the Suicide Squad thing he said:



> don't think so. We'll see. San Diego announcement maybe?


Check out the whole thing here:
https://twitter.com/ti_web/status/610513117584429056


And btw, this is the text for the Scooby-Doo issue (no cover yet):



> SCOOBY-DOO TEAM-UP #12
> Written by SHOLLY FISCH
> Art and cover by DARIO BRIZUELA
> On sale SEPTEMBER 23 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US • RATED E
> An urgent cry for help sends Scooby and the gang rushing to Gotham City—but the call was made by Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy! They stole an ancient relic, and now they’re sure it was cursed. Our heroes have to join Harley and Ivy to get to the bottom of the mystery—and, with a little help from Batgirl, they just might capture the villains, too!

----------


## Green Ghost

Poison Ivy is on the cover for Justice League United #13, but the text don't mention her or Swamp Thing:



> JUSTICE LEAGUE UNITED #13
> Written by JEFF PARKER
> Art by PAUL PELLETIER and ROB HUNTER
> Cover by TONY HARRIS
> On sale SEPTEMBER 9 • 32 pg, FC, $3.99 US • RATED T
> Guest artist Paul Pelletier joins the JLU for a special storyline that sees Stargirl and the team of Steel, Robotman, Batgirl and Vandal Savage enter a war zone that’s at once very familiar and utterly weird. Plus: the long awaited return of a legendary DC Comics hero.


Maybe they'll switch it and this will be the cover for #12 or so.

And here's the Scooby-Doo cover:


Source

----------


## Dylan Davison

> I posted on twitter that there is nothing with Poison Ivy in the September Solicitations beside a Scooby-Doo Team-Up (LOL), but then Rich Johnston of BleedingCool replied
> https://twitter.com/ti_web/status/610513117584429056


Ya, Rich posted an article on Ivy a little but ago saying something was going on. If I see or hear anything at comic con you guys will be one of the first to know, along with the Poison Ivy League on twitter and facebook. I hope Rich is right. I would be so happy to here that Ivy gets a solo, so I will freak if they say something at SDCC.


I asked Jeff Parker about the cover on twitter, though he may not reply. If he does I will let you know what he said. But I am hoping she is still in that series.

Jim Sub said on twitter in a reply to some Ivy art by Sejic (who also wants an Ivy book) that he would work on a Ivy book with Sejic anyday. So more creators want it, yay!

----------


## Confuzzled

Jim Zub seems to be really interested in Poison Ivy, no? Makes you imagine what his take on her would've been like if he hadn't unceremoniously been dumped from _BoP_. Funny how the title just bled to its painful death after the departure of fascinating femmes like Ivy and Starling. One of the least flattering moments in New 52 business decisions.

----------


## retical

> Jim Zub seems to be really interested in Poison Ivy, no? Makes you imagine what his take on her would've been like if he hadn't unceremoniously been dumped from _BoP_. Funny how the title just bled to its painful death after the departure of fascinating femmes like Ivy and Starling. One of the least flattering moments in New 52 business decisions.


I have to make a Twitter account. Has Jim Zub mentioned Ivy before? All these creators want to write Ivy but nobody pitches a book lol.

----------


## Green Ghost

I did this for Twitter! If you like it, you can give it a boost maybe

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Jim Zub seems to be really interested in Poison Ivy, no? Makes you imagine what his take on her would've been like if he hadn't unceremoniously been dumped from _BoP_. Funny how the title just bled to its painful death after the departure of fascinating femmes like Ivy and Starling. One of the least flattering moments in New 52 business decisions.


Ya, I was chatting with him on twitter when he took over. He told me he had plans to bring Ivy back and finish what Duane had started, dealing with her biosuit and the dying factor. So I was excited. Marxs (or however her last name is spelled), told me she had no plans for her, and wanted to do her own thing. Which is fine. She is a great writer and the story she did for Ivy in Secret Origins was really good. I would be up for both of them to write a Ivy solo too. I feel like Jim would deal with her stuff that Duane left though haha.




> I have to make a Twitter account. Has Jim Zub mentioned Ivy before? All these creators want to write Ivy but nobody pitches a book lol.


He has talked a bit about Ivy to me during his almost run of BoP, and he did tweet that reply to Sejic. But other then that, I don't see him talk about Ivy. But clearly he is a fan. She has a lot of creator fans. We have no idea if someone has pitched a book or not, for all we know they have at some point but it was turned down. Gail wanted to use Starling in Secret Six, but she was turned down. Stuff like that happens and we never hear about it. Who knows, if Rich is right, maybe one of these creators are working on something for Ivy. I hope Rich is right. Ivy needs this. I am really hoping we hear something at San Diego, while I am there haha.




> I did this for Twitter! If you like it, you can give it a boost maybe


That is one of my favorite pages in BoP. I wish Duane had a chance to finish what he started, he had some amazing plans. Oh well. I am hopeful for the future of Ivy, even more so if Rich is right.

----------


## PwrdOn

I hope that Ivy gets some version of her classic costume back when her solo launches.  The Green Widow getup doesn't suit her, and it's not a matter of wanting more cheesecake either, it's just not distinctive enough to make her stand out from all the other redheads in comics.

----------


## Dylan Davison

> I hope that Ivy gets some version of her classic costume back when her solo launches.  The Green Widow getup doesn't suit her, and it's not a matter of wanting more cheesecake either, it's just not distinctive enough to make her stand out from all the other redheads in comics.


I don't know about that, her costume is new and does not look like anything I have seen a red head wear. I mean a plant biosuit? That's different haha. Plus it gives her character some way to fight, even when there is no plants around. I love Ivy in all her looks. 

But this suit is cool, adds something new to her character, and proves that you don't have to be wearing her old costume to be "hot". It also is a more protective costume. I mean that fire barely hurt her in BoP. I think it would have hurt her in her old costume. To me, at least, this is her best costume in a long time. 

But like I said, I love all her costumes. I just hope they keep the new one if she gets a solo. But it won't stop me from buying it if they switched back. 

Plus we have not really seen a lot of that costume, since she has not been seen a bunch of her since the end of her run in the BoP. I think there is still a story to be told with that suit. If they do switch it, I hope they explain why. After all, last we heard, she needs that suit to live haha.

But this is just my opinion of course. And it's ok if everyone has a different one then my own. Haha.

----------


## Dr. Cheesesteak

Just wanted to let everyone know, my Ivy gang beat down Bane's gang tonight, big time in Batman Miniature Game!  

Ok, continue on.

----------


## PwrdOn

> Just wanted to let everyone know, my Ivy gang beat down Bane's gang tonight, big time in Batman Miniature Game!  
> 
> Ok, continue on.


[img]http://i.*****.com/vi/SAj6-x7itaQ/hqdefault.jpg[/img]

I have this image now of Bane's goons getting trounced by Violet and Lily, too bad we never got to see more of them beyond the one TAS episode.

----------


## Confuzzled

> [img]http://i.*****.com/vi/SAj6-x7itaQ/hqdefault.jpg[/img]
> 
> I have this image now of Bane's goons getting trounced by Violet and Lily, too bad we never got to see more of them beyond the one TAS episode.


Yeah, poor Violet and Lily were dumped once Harley and Ivy happened. It's about time we had recurring/semi-recurring henches for Ivy. She would be the most likely of the Batman Rogues (now that Selina is a big shot mob boss) to hire members of society's disenfranchised groups such as prostitutes, victims of abuse, LGBTQ and lower class people of color.

----------


## Divine Spark

Well Ivy had a major role in Arkham Knight.

----------


## byrd156

> [img]http://i.*****.com/vi/SAj6-x7itaQ/hqdefault.jpg[/img]
> 
> I have this image now of Bane's goons getting trounced by Violet and Lily, too bad we never got to see more of them beyond the one TAS episode.


They were also in the Adventures of Batman and Robin on SNES, they were a pain to get around since you couldn't punch them.

----------


## RedQueen

wasn't ivy set to appear in last week suicide squad? and future solicits don't have her and she's not on any covers. i wonder if they've changed their minds aabout her appearing :Frown:

----------


## Dylan Davison

> wasn't ivy set to appear in last week suicide squad? and future solicits don't have her and she's not on any covers. i wonder if they've changed their minds aabout her appearing


She is not showing up in Suicide Squad till this current arc is done. Which ends in September. So she will show up in October, I believe. I talked to the writer on twitter haha. I guess that back of the issue thing about the new team was wrong on the date haha. But ya, October. So I can't wait to see how she is in it.

----------


## Green Ghost

> Well Ivy had a major role in Arkham Knight.


Yeah, it was quite a surprise!

----------


## Stormcrow

*ComicsAlliance* has a gallery of the Best Poison Ivy Art Ever!

----------


## Dylan Davison

> *ComicsAlliance* has a gallery of the Best Poison Ivy Art Ever!


I like a lot of these, I have seen someone I would add in and some of these I would take away. But over all, that is is amazing art work for her. However, I wish more of this was in comic book art, I would like to see a list of who drew Ivy best in comics. But that's just me haha. Thanks for sharing this.

----------


## retical

> *ComicsAlliance* has a gallery of the Best Poison Ivy Art Ever!


Woah, this is so cool. So much art. I hope all these recent posts hint towards a Poison Ivy book launch.

----------


## TsukiSentinel

Looking for art of Poison Ivy. It's a realistic drawing of Ivy crouching down in a garden/field, in front of someone's body I think, and Batman's silhouette is behind her. The colors are mostly dull shades of green, orange and yellow.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Looking for art of Poison Ivy. It's a realistic drawing of Ivy crouching down in a garden/field, in front of someone's body I think, and Batman's silhouette is behind her. The colors are mostly dull shades of green, orange and yellow.


Are you talking about the Brian Bolland cover?

----------


## Dylan Davison

Well the cover for issue 11 of JLU will no longer be the same. So thay cover with Ivy leading the team, which I think is a great cover, won't be used. At least for that issue. I asked Parker via twitter if it will be used for anything else, and he just favorited it. Not sure what that means haha. But I wonder why they changed covers.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I asked Parker via twitter if it will be used for anything else, and he just favorited it. Not sure what that means haha. B


Probably means he's not in the know or doesn't support the cover change. Too bad. Ivy being prominently featured on covers that have little to none of her in the issues inside isn't entirely new though. Seems like cover artists, like other artists, just love to draw them some lovely Ivy.

----------


## TsukiSentinel

> Are you talking about the Brian Bolland cover?


OMG thank you! By far my favorite image of Poison Ivy. Something about it.

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Probably means he's not in the know or doesn't support the cover change. Too bad. Ivy being prominently featured on covers that have little to none of her in the issues inside isn't entirely new though. Seems like cover artists, like other artists, just love to draw them some lovely Ivy.


Why would you say she will be little to none on the inside? I think is is going to be featured in issue 11 and 12 a lot. After all she leads the team. But I hope they use that art for something else. I really did love that cover haha.

----------


## juan678

nebezial

----------


## Confuzzled

I love Nebezial's work. I am also pretty sure now that Ivy will have a solo announced soon. Too many fans and creators have shown an interest for DC to ignore. Here's hoping a strong team capable of handling Pam's complexity and loveliness is hired for the job.

----------


## Dylan Davison

I would think if she was going to get one soon we will hear something about it at San Diego Comic Con. So like I said, I will make sure to get any news to you guys. I am planning on going to the Batman panel, so I would think they would announce it there. Not sure if I can fit any other panels into my busy con. But I will try to go to all the dc panels I can. I also plan to ask about Poison Ivy at the Batman panel, if I can. So if we don't get any news, maybe we can get a hint from my question, I don't know. I am hoping for something haha.

I also made a pin/button recently based on Ivy's new 52 costume. I plan to take a picture of it tomorrow and show it off. Not my best work, but if you are an Ivy fan people may understand who it is for haha, I hope.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I would think if she was going to get one soon we will hear something about it at San Diego Comic Con. So like I said, I will make sure to get any news to you guys. I am planning on going to the Batman panel, so I would think they would announce it there. Not sure if I can fit any other panels into my busy con. But I will try to go to all the dc panels I can. I also plan to ask about Poison Ivy at the Batman panel, if I can. So if we don't get any news, maybe we can get a hint from my question, I don't know. I am hoping for something haha.
> 
> I also made a pin/button recently based on Ivy's new 52 costume. I plan to take a picture of it tomorrow and show it off. Not my best work, but if you are an Ivy fan people may understand who it is for haha, I hope.


Haha, the pin/button sounds awesome. I love looking at everything Ivy related so don't hesitate in posting the image.  :Stick Out Tongue: 

Yes, do ask about the Poison Ivy solo if you get a chance at SDCC and if it isn't announced by then. The online coverage that #PoisonIvyLeague has received must have definitely been noticed by DC higher ups.

----------


## Dylan Davison

Poison Ivy miniseries announced. Buy it and hope for an ongoing!

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/2...sive/29756145/





> Three other miniseries feature new voices showcasing different aspects of DC lore. With Poison Ivy: Cycle of Life and Death, writer Amy Chu (Sensation Comics: Wonder Woman) takes the Batman villainess in "a really new direction," Harras says, "and it's a fun twist on her character and where she's going to go."
> 
> Chu finds Poison Ivy "a fascinatingly complicated character with an incredible fan base," she says. "We know her, but we don't really know her. There's so much opportunity to build her world without the burden of continuity. And let's face it, writing villains is more fun."
> 
> Taking a big role in the DCU is also a very personal challenge for Chu. "My grandfather was a doctor in Hong Kong back in the '50s, and apparently he was a huge DC fan," the writer adds. "For years, he would have comics shipped to his office from the U.S. So for me to be writing comics today, and especially DC comics, is some kind of crazy karma."
> 
> 
> DC began revamping parts of its lineup in June that brought a lot of changes for signature heroes, from Jim Gordon donning the Batman moniker to a different outfit and outlook for Superman. According to DiDio, the new miniseries gives DC a chance to make similar tweaks to lesser-known characters and also test the waters to see if fans want more of them.
> 
> "This is about character but there is a complete story in every one of those miniseries," DiDio says. "It has a beginning, middle and end, and something that affects the course of that character that we would be able to launch and take further if things are successful."

----------


## Punisher007

Cool. I wish that it was an ongoing to, but this is a good start at least.

----------


## Confuzzled

Yaaay, it finally happened! Just a mini-series but still. And 2016 will be Ivy's 50th Anniversary too (She made her debut in 1966), so the timing couldn't be more perfect!  :Big Grin: 

I loved Amy Chu's Wonder Woman story in Sensation Comics and what she had to say about Ivy as an character, world building potential and her fanbase (us!). Thanks Amy, you are pretty swell too.  :Stick Out Tongue: 

If this is a grand success, it will definitely blossom into an ongoing!!

----------


## Confuzzled

Amy Chu seems to be a total sweetheart going by her Twitter. Her genuine excitement is so infectious and the way she keeps thanking all the Ivy fans congratulating her is adorable. Really happy that DC chose her for Ivy.  :Big Grin:

----------


## DGraysonWorldsGreatestSpy

Love the Art for Poison Ivy Mini and if the Story is good then I will purchase.

----------


## Punisher007

I kind of wish that they'd keep the New 52 costume/look though (I'm a fan of it personally).

----------


## Dylan Davison

> I kind of wish that they'd keep the New 52 costume/look though (I'm a fan of it personally).


Agreed,  I am a fan out it too. But a costume change won't stop me from reading this haha. I hope they maybe explain the change though. But they may ignore her new52 stuff for this, who knows haha.

----------


## quinnzel

So excited about the Ivy mini-series! I saw a post about it on Gail Simone's Facebook page earlier and I got all excited!  :Big Grin:

----------


## Hypo

This isn't official since it's only an Amazon listing but *Harley and Ivy: The Deluxe Edition*

----------


## Dylan Davison

Here is a better look at that promo image:

----------


## Confuzzled

I wonder who these women in her palm are. Her new henchwomen? Or, seeing how the title is "Cycle of Life and Death", I wonder if these women represent different phases of Ivy. Their visuals seem to correspond to the seasons of Spring, Summer and Autumn perfectly.

----------


## Dylan Davison

> I wonder who these women in her palm are. Her new henchwomen? Or, seeing how the title is "Cycle of Life and Death", I wonder if these women represent different phases of Ivy. Their visuals seem to correspond to the seasons of Spring, Summer and Autumn perfectly.


Ya, they could be more people like Ivy or linked to the seasons and her personalities.  One seems to be flirty looking, the one in front seems to be a warrior and strong, and the back one seems a bit furious and rage like. I am interested in finding more out about the plot, hope to hear something at SDCC.

----------


## Robotman

there was a recent story, i believe it was Batgirl Annual #2 written by Gail, where Ivy talked about how the seasons effect her. her moods and personality can change because of the seasons. those women shown in that image may well be Ivy herself.

----------


## quinnzel

> This isn't official since it's only an Amazon listing but *Harley and Ivy: The Deluxe Edition*


OH MY GOD YES. I SO hope this is really going to happen.

----------


## Dylan Davison

> there was a recent story, i believe it was Batgirl Annual #2 written by Gail, where Ivy talked about how the seasons effect her. her moods and personality can change because of the seasons. those women shown in that image may well be Ivy herself.


Ya, that crossed my mind. So far we have not seen it effect her to much, other then making her weak, strong and/or crazier, and change her costume a bit to match the season. But since her costume is back to how it was this could be how it effects her now.

Just noticed the brown one in the back has wood all over her, I thought it was like dying leaves or something haha.

Anyways comic con starts today! So I will for sure post anything I learn. Hopefully something haha.

----------


## Confuzzled

The DC Super Hero Girls officially has a website now: http://www.dcsuperherogirls.com/



Ivy's profile page on the website describes her as "Genius. Shy. Awkward." Definitely closer to the pre-tranformation teen Ivy. Cute stuff.

----------


## Samurai Jack

> The DC Super Hero Girls officially has a website now: http://www.dcsuperherogirls.com/
> 
> 
> 
> Ivy's profile page on the website describes her as "Genius. Shy. Awkward." Definitely closer to the pre-tranformation teen Ivy. Cute stuff.


It's nice to see her get recognized among these DC characters, but Katana looks exactly like Mulan... also some of the other characters look very Disney-ish as well. Supergirl kinda looks like Frozen's Anna and Poison Ivy looks similar to Brave's Merida. Batgirl and Harley Quinn's designs look good.

----------


## Robotman

> It's nice to see her get recognized among these DC characters, but Katana looks exactly like Mulan... also some of the other characters look very Disney-ish as well. Supergirl kinda looks like Frozen's Anna and Poison Ivy looks similar to Brave's Merida. Batgirl and Harley Quinn's designs look good.


the similarities are probably pretty intentional.

----------


## Confuzzled

> It's nice to see her get recognized among these DC characters, but Katana looks exactly like Mulan... also some of the other characters look very Disney-ish as well. Supergirl kinda looks like Frozen's Anna and Poison Ivy looks similar to Brave's Merida. Batgirl and Harley Quinn's designs look good.


Ivy also has Elsa's side braid.



Even the way her personality is described on the site seems to match that of Elsa's in Frozen. Seems like they are going with the gifted but misunderstood angle with Young Pam in this.

----------


## Samurai Jack

> This isn't official since it's only an Amazon listing but *Harley and Ivy: The Deluxe Edition*


I would definitely buy this, the 24.99 price isn't bad either for a hardcover.
Plus since it's from Paul Dini, I hope to see great stories from the animated series, and full issues from Gotham City Sirens would be awesome too.

As for the Disney styled DC characters, since neither DC or Warner Bros has any rights to Disney or their character designs, wouldn't that lead to some trouble later on?

----------


## quinnzel

> I would definitely buy this, the 24.99 price isn't bad either for a hardcover.
> Plus since it's from Paul Dini, I hope to see great stories from the animated series, and full issues from Gotham City Sirens would be awesome too.


I think it's a HC deluxe reprinting of the original Harley and Ivy paperback which collected the Harley and Ivy mini-series (which was in total 4 issues I believe). I've never read the Harley and Ivy mini and the single issues get a lot of attention on ebay so they're hard to come by. And the original paperback is pretty pricey now too, so I'm stoked that they're finally reprinting it  :Big Grin: 

Gotham City Sirens is being reprinted now also! The first and second paperbacks are already out  :Big Grin:

----------


## Samurai Jack

> I think it's a HC deluxe reprinting of the original Harley and Ivy paperback which collected the Harley and Ivy mini-series (which was in total 4 issues I believe). I've never read the Harley and Ivy mini and the single issues get a lot of attention on ebay so they're hard to come by. And the original paperback is pretty pricey now too, so I'm stoked that they're finally reprinting it


Is this the Harley & Ivy book? http://www.amazon.com/Batman-Harley-.../dp/1401213332

I bought this book on a really nice discount back when Borders was closing down in 2011. I had no idea it was going to go out of print a few years later.

----------


## quinnzel

> Is this the Harley & Ivy book? http://www.amazon.com/Batman-Harley-.../dp/1401213332
> 
> I bought this book on a really nice discount back when Borders was closing down in 2011. I had no idea it was going to go out of print a few years later.


Yup, that's the one!

Man, I'm jealous. And has it really been 4 years now since Borders was around?  :Frown:

----------


## Confuzzled

I have that book too!  :Smile:  Fun stuff. The standout moment for me:

----------


## Confuzzled

Harley & Ivy pinup Frank Cho prepared for SDCC:

----------


## darkseidpwns

Glad she's getting her own series,it's time we got a serious take on the character,I was getting sick of her being buddies with Harley all the time.

----------


## retical

A Poison Ivy mini-series?! Great news! I hope they will try to tell Ivy's stories and perhaps create a new roster of characters around her. I hope this doesn't turn into yet another Harley and Ivy book. Keeping the New 52 costume will be great too! Either way great news! Do we know who the artist is (or any speculation)?

----------


## Dylan Davison

Hey guys, guess what just came in the mail! 
20150718_203444.jpg20150718_203450.jpg20150718_203458.jpg


Sorry about the bad pictures. My tablet does not take good ones haha, and they always turn out sideways like that. 

Just let me tell you that the figure is great, so pretty, a nice sculpt, and the paint job is amazing. The Black part is actually a very dark, dark green. I love it! I put it next to my other favorite Ivy figure for comparison. Will you guys be getting this?

----------


## Confuzzled

> Hey guys, guess what just came in the mail! 
> 20150718_203444.jpg20150718_203450.jpg20150718_203458.jpg
> 
> 
> Sorry about the bad pictures. My tablet does not take good ones haha, and they always turn out sideways like that. 
> 
> Just let me tell you that the figure is great, so pretty, a nice sculpt, and the paint job is amazing. The Black part is actually a very dark, dark green. I love it! I put it next to my other favorite Ivy figure for comparison. Will you guys be getting this?


Wow, that's one gorgeous figure. This was the same one unveiled at last year's SDCC as the winner of the online poll, right?

Speaking of SDCC, how was your experience this time, Torch? Any Ivy related tidbits to share?  :Smile:

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Wow, that's one gorgeous figure. This was the same one unveiled at last year's SDCC as the winner of the online poll, right?
> 
> Speaking of SDCC, how was your experience this time, Torch? Any Ivy related tidbits to share?


Yep, the same poll winning figure! It is really a great figure. Gorgeous is right.

SDCC was fun, as always. More business for me this year around though haha. I am afraid no Poison Ivy news this year, other then what we know so far. 

I could not ask a question at the Batman panel, plus I got in late due to the line. The villain panel was during a meeting I had. So unfortunately I could not ask any questions. The panels I did go to did not talk about them, and even if they did I don't think it would have been more then what we learned, after all that was technically SDCC news haha. 

I hope we do hear more soon though, I am really looking forward to  the mini-series. Like a lot haha.

----------


## Dylan Davison

So looks like Ivy will no longer be in Suicide Squad. I am kinda saddened by this. I know we are getting a mini series for her, but I liked the idea of having her in an monthly ongoing again. Plus she was in her new52 costume, which I loved. What do you guys think?

----------


## Dr. Cheesesteak

> So looks like Ivy will no longer be in Suicide Squad. I am kinda saddened by this. I know we are getting a mini series for her, but I liked the idea of having her in an monthly ongoing again. Plus she was in her new52 costume, which I loved. What do you guys think?


I'm curious as to what he meant by "couldn't make the continuity work"...especially in this new DCYou?

----------


## Stormcrow

> I'm curious as to what he meant by "couldn't make the continuity work"...especially in this new DCYou?


Exactly, I thought that wasn't such a big deal anymore? And it's not like it ever mattered with Harley, can't say the continuity works between her solo and Suicide Squad...

I'd guess they decided to go in a direction closer to the movie incarnation, at least that's what would make sense to me. Why even advertise it if it's still not final and subject to change, though... Same old DC.

----------


## Frontier

Cullen Bunn also remarked about how it was difficult to work in Black Manta in his book because of what's going on in other books...I guess story over continuity applies more to some titles and creators rather than all of them  :Stick Out Tongue: .

----------


## nepenthes

> Exactly, I thought that wasn't such a big deal anymore? And it's not like it ever mattered with Harley, can't say the continuity works between her solo and Suicide Squad...
> 
> I'd guess they decided to go in a direction closer to the movie incarnation, at least that's what would make sense to me. Why even advertise it if it's still not final and subject to change, though... Same old DC.


Yeah this is weird especially considering the the stated focus away from strict continuity in DC You. Suicide Squad needs a new team anyway so no biggie, and she's still popping up over in JLU.

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Yeah this is weird especially considering the the stated focus away from strict continuity in DC You. Suicide Squad needs a new team anyway so no biggie, and she's still popping up over in JLU.


Only for issue 11 and 12 though, after that is a new team, right? I hope she does pop up in more places then her mini haha. I mean I am happy she is getting one, but having her in a regular ongoing (like she was in BoP) would be nice. I am happy we are getting more Ivy though! Can't wait for the mini.

----------


## Green Ghost

Here's the Justice League United #12 Preview!

The cover turned out nice in color:

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Here's the Justice League United #12 Preview!
> 
> The cover turned out nice in color:


Wow! Ya it did! I wish she was in it for more then two issues though haha.

----------


## Confuzzled

Wow, that is one eye-popping cover!

Regarding Ivy not appearing in SS anymore, I'm cool with it as Amy Chu's mini sounds much more awesome anyway.  :Big Grin:  In the unfortunate instance that the mini doesn't become an ongoing, then Ivy could always be recruited by the Squad.

----------


## Thomas Crown

Just a quick poll:

What is your favorite Poison Ivy look?

Classic Ivy...


"Nudist" Ivy...


or New 52 Ivy?

----------


## Dylan Davison

New52 is my vote, I just love the way it looks and it's a weapon. It just adds a lot to her character.

----------


## Confuzzled

All three? Gorgeous character is gorgeous any which way.

----------


## Green Ghost

> New52 is my vote, I just love the way it looks and it's a weapon. It just adds a lot to her character.


Yeah, I agree! It makes her more lethal and she is still sexy without showing much skin. Hope she'll keep it for awhile and woun't return to the bathing suit.

----------


## nepenthes

> Here's the Justice League United #12 Preview!
> 
> The cover turned out nice in color:


Holeeee smokes!

----------


## nepenthes

> Just a quick poll:
> 
> What is your favorite Poison Ivy look?
> 
> Classic Ivy...
> 
> 
> "Nudist" Ivy...
> 
> ...


Classic Ivy all the way. Such a fun look and I like the fangirl "Pop Villain" Ivy far more than the weed witch.

----------


## nepenthes



----------


## juan678

art by Nebezial

----------


## retical

> Just a quick poll:
> 
> What is your favorite Poison Ivy look?
> 
> Classic Ivy...
> 
> 
> "Nudist" Ivy...
> 
> ...


New 52 Ivy costume. Looks completely badass without losing it's sexiness.

----------


## Thomas Crown

My vote goes to the "Nudist" look. I really like the "weed witch" feeling it evokes. Try to imagine Mathilda May on "Lifeforce"....but with a lot of plants.

Furthermore, in this age of diversity, i think that's what the comics industry needs right now: NUDIST SUPERHEROES! :-D

----------


## Confuzzled

One of my favourite artists in the business, Kevin Wada, loves drawing Ivy from different periods (below is in the Edwardian Era and heady 60's respectively):





And here's Classic Ivy and Harley:

----------


## Frontier

Wow, Wada does a spectacular Harley and Ivy. In all styles  :Big Grin: .

----------


## Confuzzled

Apparently there was an Ivy/Wonder Woman team-up story in last month's _Sensation Comics #12_, with Ivy visiting Themyscira. Interesting.

----------


## Green Ghost

> Apparently there was an Ivy/Wonder Woman team-up story in last month's _Sensation Comics #12_, with Ivy visiting Themyscira. Interesting.


You should check it out, it was a really good Ivy in their and she kicked ass with Diana.

Also it looks like Bombshell Ivy will make her comic debut in issue #5:



> DC COMICS BOMBSHELLS #5
> Written by MARGUERITE BENNETT
> Art by BILQUIS EVELY, LAURA BRAGA and MIRKA ANDOLFO
> Cover by ANT LUCIA
> On sale NOVEMBER 25 • 40 pg, FC, $3.99 US • RATED T • DIGITAL FIRST
> Shipping twice in November! While Wonder Woman leads an American infantry division in an attack on an Axis battalion, Harley makes a none-too-graceful landing in France, where she encounters *a woman with a strange affinity for plants*. Plus, Supergirl and Stargirl fly home to protect their parents, only to be attacked by a fearsome forest spirit known as the Swamp Thing.

----------


## PwrdOn

Does the Thorn still exist in the New 52?  I recall that she was somewhat of a heroic counterpart to Ivy and that they faced off in a backup story of the old Lois Lane comic where Ivy went after Thorn with a handgun of all things and was promptly clobbered. Poor classic Ivy never could catch much of a break eh?

----------


## Confuzzled

> You should check it out, it was a really good Ivy in their and she kicked ass with Diana.
> 
> Also it looks like Bombshell Ivy will make her comic debut in issue #5:


Yeah, the Sensation Comics story really seems to have utilized her well.

And yay for Bombshell Ivy appearing. Hopefully she is the lead in her own story down the line.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Does the Thorn still exist in the New 52?  I recall that she was somewhat of a heroic counterpart to Ivy and that they faced off in a backup story of the old Lois Lane comic where Ivy went after Thorn with a handgun of all things and was promptly clobbered. Poor classic Ivy never could catch much of a break eh?


Rose/Thorn was reinvented in 2012 as a teenage girl Rose Canton suffering from a split personality. The "Thorn" persona was her darker side. She appeared in the National Comics imprint: http://www.comicvine.com/rose-and-thorn/4005-86782/

Haha, I remember that Classic Ivy/Thorn showdown. If we thought DC had no idea what to do with Ivy now, they seriously were even more in the dark before Neil Gaiman came along in the mid 80's and made her a witchy nature manipulator in his Ivy origin story _Pavane_ and his take on her in _Black Orchid_.

----------


## James Hunter

> Does the Thorn still exist in the New 52?  I recall that she was somewhat of a heroic counterpart to Ivy and that they faced off in a backup story of the old Lois Lane comic where Ivy went after Thorn with a handgun of all things and was promptly clobbered. Poor classic Ivy never could catch much of a break eh?


Sort of?  There was a NATIONAL COMICS one-shot with Rose and Thorne but its never been referenced since (I enjoyed that and the Kid Eternity one to be honest)

Cheers.

James.

----------


## PwrdOn

Ouch. Would like to see the two of them interact again at some point though.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> Ouch. Would like to see the two of them interact again at some point though.


Not me…they're classic design and power set were too similar. it feels redundant…the new teenage version though seems much more original.

----------


## Docz

Had to pick up JLU 12, absolutely stunning cover.  Pretty decent read too, I'm a little bummed she apparently won't be part of the book after this issue though.  I'd love to have a monthly that Ivy played a big role in, but I guess for now we'll have to wait for her mini.

----------


## retical

The book was awesome. Stunning cover and great art. I'm also bummed that she won't be part of the team after #12.

----------


## nepenthes

[img]http://***********/batman-news.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Batman-66-26.jpg?w=800&quality=85&strip=info[/img]

Cover of the century. '66 #26

----------


## PwrdOn

Ivy seemed to be having a blast in the issue as well.

----------


## Confuzzled

ROFL. She would have perfectly fit the show. I mean, "Flower Children" henchmen and women anyone? Wikipedia claims that they had been considering her as they wanted more female villains after Catwoman's success and I presume she would have eventually made her debut if the show hadn't gotten cancelled.

----------


## Confuzzled

Also guys, don't forget to show Ivy some love in CSBG's Annual Top 100 DC and Marvel characters. Vote for her and your other faves after reading the instructions.

----------


## PwrdOn

> ROFL. She would have perfectly fit the show. I mean, "Flower Children" henchmen and women anyone? Wikipedia claims that they had been considering her as they wanted more female villains after Catwoman's success and I presume she would have eventually made her debut if the show hadn't gotten cancelled.






I thought the Brave and the Bold cartoon did a pretty good job of portraying a '66-style Poison Ivy complete with a gang of plant themed henchgirls and a death trap scenario for Batman.  Her design was really quite elegant and I also liked how the flower children's costumes were patterned off simplified versions of the classic Ivy look.  Following a rather distressing pattern however, she was treated as no more than a gimmicky joke villain that didn't even warrant a single episode in focus, and in fairly short order Black Orchid was able to put Ivy and her girls down for the count without so much as breaking a sweat.

----------


## Confuzzled

The Brave and the Bold Ivy design is my second favorite other media look of hers after the classic BTAS version. I agree that we should have seen more of her but this short was fun. As was her appearance in the terrific "Chill of the Night".

----------


## AdamFTF

> [img]http://***********/batman-news.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Batman-66-26.jpg?w=800&quality=85&strip=info[/img]
> 
> Cover of the century. '66 #26


I liked Ivy in this issue.  I'm glad they're adding more villains to this series.  Makes it feel less like a simple homage and more like a continuation.  One nice little touch is that they seemed to write her like she had a southern accent.  It allows you to imagine a unique voice for her like all the other villains had on the show (Riddler's manic giggling, Catwoman's purring when she talks, etc).

----------


## Confuzzled

I got a little annoyed by the "y'all" drawl but overall it was a fun issue. Lol @ Ivy getting her biggest competitor Louie the Lilac out of the way from the start. Even a camp Ivy takes no prisoners.

----------


## PwrdOn

Apparently Ivy wasn't always so big on plants as we had thought....

----------


## retical

> Apparently Ivy wasn't always so big on plants as we had thought....


LOL :Wink: . I prefer her in New52. Sometimes a hero and sometimes in a grey area with her own agenda. I think she will appear in Suicide Squad again. It was announced a few months ago.

----------


## PwrdOn

> LOL. I prefer her in New52. Sometimes a hero and sometimes in a grey area with her own agenda. I think she will appear in Suicide Squad again. It was announced a few months ago.


I'm not quite sure whether I find some of the older depictions of Ivy as a hopeless putz to be irritating or endearing.  I'm a big Jean Grey fan too and while I do get somewhat annoyed when I see her fainting or falling flat on her face out of the blue, I can't deny that it's supremely entertaining.

----------


## Londo Bellian

Nobody's perfect. But if you find yourself loving their imperfections too - even if only part of the time - then you love these characters, period.

Yay Ivy.

----------


## Confuzzled

Loved this preview page from the new Harley Quinn Annual:



The Palmiottis are doing a better job at capturing her character.

----------


## Londo Bellian

Lovely Ivy indeed. Has she always had some control over he her skin pigmentation in this continuity? Just asking because she looks pale and a tad greenish when in costume, but when she and her fellow "Sirens" were sunbathing atop Harley's inheritance in the preview, her skin does look like it has a nice tan going on. Or was it just makeup all along?

----------


## Confuzzled

It's just the interpretation of different colorists. I'm digging this green variant of her New 52 body suit btw.  :Smile:

----------


## Frontier

> It's just the interpretation of different colorists. I'm digging this green variant of her New 52 body suit btw.


Yeah, the entire bodysuit being green works really well and actually better fits Ivy. 




> Loved this preview page from the new Harley Quinn Annual:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palmiottis are doing a better job at capturing her character.


I guess you can't win em' all Batman...




> Apparently Ivy wasn't always so big on plants as we had thought....


Well, I wouldn't say this means she wasn't always as big on plants (though I think the eco-terrorist and obsession with them came a little later, but could be wrong about that), it's just she also cares a lot for her looks quite a bit which I think fits for Ivy.

----------


## Frontier

Also read the latest '66 issue with Ivy, and seeing her re-imagined as a feisty southern belle was actually a lot more fun than I expected, and she really wasn't that much different otherwise from how she's traditionally portrayed  :Smile: .

She also looked pretty spectacular, which was great. If she ever uses any molls in a future appearance, I hope they look just as lovely  :Big Grin: .

And that surprise kiss  :Wink: .

----------


## Confuzzled

Are any of you guys attending NYCC? Amy Chu will be among the panelists at the Batman: The Bat-Universe panel.

----------


## MentalManipulator

First look at the New Batman Adventures figure:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRyN7udV4Dg

Also the first clip from Dc Super Hero Girls looks cute. Would be crazy excited if I was 10 years old hehe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqcOhkEPsxg

Hopes Ivy gets more attitude and doesn't spend the whole series as the shy lab girl.

----------


## Thirteen

> Just a quick poll:
> 
> What is your favorite Poison Ivy look?
> 
> Classic Ivy...
> 
> "Nudist" Ivy...
> 
> or New 52 Ivy?


An interesting examination of the evolution and possible missteps in Ivy's appearance over the years.  While generally on point in its analysis, the piece lacks the perspective of the naturalist, for whom nudity has other meaning rather than servicing the gaze of others.

*http://panels.net/2015/03/17/poison-ivy-litmus-test/*

My preference for the New52 Poison Ivy designed by Cully Hamner waxes and wanes depending on the individual depiction.  


The flora body suit is at its best by Hamner or Jesus Saiz who play up the texture of the black areas making them look like otherworldly swirling organic areas darkness rather than just conventional material.  
All of which plays to the adaptability of the living costume as a symbiotic weapon of its mistress.

----------


## RedQueen

I really love the New 52 design but I have to say I absolutely adored the one she wore in Swamp Thing about two years ago. She looked very earthy.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Also the first clip from Dc Super Hero Girls looks cute. Would be crazy excited if I was 10 years old hehe:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hopes Ivy gets more attitude and doesn't spend the whole series as the shy lab girl.


It's cute and I especially love the vector-esque opening with Ivy controlling the vines. It's interesting that she is coming across as the model student. The way she daintily put her hand over her mouth while laughing at Harley's antics gave me serious Elsa vibes.

----------


## Green Ghost

> Are any of you guys attending NYCC? Amy Chu will be among the panelists at the Batman: The Bat-Universe panel.


Today's the day, yay! Hope we'll get the artist on the book, the cover for #1 and some story!

Also DC Superhero Girls have a big presence at the con with the reveal of 12 inch dolls:

----------


## Green Ghost

The series will be drawn by *Clay Mann* who also did the cover for Batgirl Annual #2 with Ivy!

Here's a low-res version from twitter:
CQ-aKnCUEAEMiFE.jpg

Any info from CBR:



> Chu talked "Poison Ivy: Cycle of Life and Death," which will be illustrated by Clay Mann. "We all know her, but we don't actually know her," Chu said of Ivy. "This is like the dream gig for any writer." Chu said an overlooked aspect of Poison Ivy's character is that she's "Lex Luthor-smart -- and she'll kill you, too. *She's not a psychopath. She had the capability of loving people.* I'm going to talk about that in the series, too."


and Newsarama:



> 19:51
> 
> Up next Chu talked about her upcoming Poison Ivy mini-series, saying "Poison Ivy is one of those great characters who, we all know her, but we don't really KNOW her, cause she's never had a solo-series."
> 
> 19:51
> 
> "This is a chance for me to show off a really complicated character in this universe. *She's sexy, but she's also Lex Luthor smart.*"
> 
> 19:52
> ...

----------


## Confuzzled

Clay Mann has been announced as the artist of the Poison Ivy mini. Love his artwork as he has a unique and beautiful style. His former interpretations of Ivy here:

----------


## Confuzzled

Heh, Green Ghost beat me to the announcement. Would just like to make one minor but significant correction though. Chu said Ivy _has_ the capability to love people. Present tense. The direction she is taking Ivy in really seems interesting and in line with what a lot of us Ivy fans were hoping for in this very thread ever since the New 52 was launched.

And how annoying was it that all of the fan questions in the panel where about the Robins, a majority of which were solely about Dick Grayson?  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Frontier

I'm interested to see how Chu will explore Ivy's character, and what she's said so far has definitely gotten me excited, and the premise is also pretty interesting. Considering her Supervillain status and MO, Ivy being framed for murder is fairly ironic.

----------


## Green Ghost

> Heh, Green Ghost beat me to the announcement. Would just like to make one minor but significant correction though. Chu said Ivy _has_ the capability to love people. Present tense. The direction she is taking Ivy in really seems interesting and in line with what a lot of us Ivy fans were hoping for in this very thread ever since the New 52 was launched.
> 
> And how annoying was it that all of the fan questions in the panel where about the Robins, a majority of which were solely about Dick Grayson?


The thing with the Q&A is really disappointing but everything what Amy Chu said sounds fantastic and like you said everything we've hoped for!

Here's the panel report from BleedingCool:



> Chu’s upcoming Poison Ivy comic is a glimpse into Ivy, as well as proof that she is “like Lex Luthor smart,” as *Ivy will be back working at the Gotham Botanical Gardens as a botanist and investigating a murder that she has been implicated in*. May prove interesting

----------


## Dylan Davison

Love who they picked as the artist! Also that cover or image used at the panel has Ivy in the biosuit! I was wondering if they would keep it. I'm glad they are.

I'm so excited for this miniseries! Amy and Clay will do an amazing job I'm sure. Plus I like the premise. 

Now I just need that cover/image to be released so I can have a new avatar and cell phone background haha.

----------


## Frontier

I assume she'll probably be working at the Botanical Gardens under an assumed name and identity, which might let her investigate things "incognito" once Poison Ivy is framed for a murder.

----------


## darkseidpwns

The only exciting news from the Batman panel for me, here's hoping other Batman family anti-heroes/villains get some time to shine too.

----------


## Green Ghost

I'm also happy they're keeping her bio-suite. It looks like Mann altered it though, the leafs are formed like her old bathing suit and she has boots now.

This is the biggest picture I found of the cover:
PICOLAD1.jpg

Love that the plans are build like DNA and it looks like something is in the bud.

I saw that Amy Chu and Clay Mann gave interviews at NYCC, so maybe there'll be some articles the next days with the hi-res cover.

----------


## Dylan Davison

> I'm also happy they're keeping her bio-suite. It looks like Mann altered it though, the leafs are formed like her old bathing suit and she has boots now.
> 
> This is the biggest picture I found of the cover:
> PICOLAD1.jpg
> 
> Love that the plans are build like DNA and it looks like something is in the bud.
> 
> I saw that Amy Chu and Clay Mann gave interviews at NYCC, so maybe there'll be some articles the next days with the hi-res cover.


Ya I noticed the changes too. I like them, a mix of the old and new. Plus the leaves changing fits how the costume should work, in my opinion, they should change every now and again, make it feel alive. If that makes sense haha.

I hope they do put a hi-res image in those interviews. I saw Amy Chu tweet about doing some with Clay, so I hope they come out today haha or at least soon.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I'm also happy they're keeping her bio-suite. It looks like Mann altered it though, the leafs are formed like her old bathing suit and she has boots now.
> 
> This is the biggest picture I found of the cover:
> PICOLAD1.jpg
> 
> Love that the plans are build like DNA and it looks like something is in the bud.
> 
> I saw that Amy Chu and Clay Mann gave interviews at NYCC, so maybe there'll be some articles the next days with the hi-res cover.


Really cool. And I agree with Power Torch, the leaf patterns should keep changing now and then, just as how they change color during the seasons.

Also, _now this is just a theory of mine_, but couldn't help noticing that there are three buds, and there were three women in Ivy's palm in the previously released image created by Guillerm March. Is Ivy growing her own henchwomen/daughters (Flower Children?) in the flower buds, Thumbelina style? If my theory is right, then Ivy developing and "birthing" her own daughters and the mini exploring her relationship with these daughters could be something incredibly poignant and beautiful, to say the least. And now I'm getting carried away but considering if this story is really inspired by the Thumbelina tale, then Ivy really wants children like the mother in that story, who plants a magical seed that grows into a child-bearing flower.

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Really cool. And I agree with Power Torch, the leaf patterns should keep changing now and then, just as how they change color during the seasons.
> 
> Also, _now this is just a theory of mine_, but couldn't help noticing that there are three buds, and there were three women in Ivy's palm in the previously released image created by Guillerm March. Is Ivy growing her own henchwomen/daughters (Flower Children?) in the flower buds, Thumbelina style? If my theory is right, then Ivy developing and "birthing" her own daughters and the mini exploring her relationship with these daughters could be something incredibly poignant and beautiful, to say the least. And now I'm getting carried away but considering if this story is really inspired by the Thumbelina tale, then Ivy really wants children like the mother in that story, who plants a magical seed that grows into a child-bearing flower.


Well also don't forget she is getting framed for a murder. Maybe whoever is trying to frame her made some plant people of thier own in order to frame Ivy. I'm interested in seeing how those three fit into all of this though!

----------


## OBrianTallent

Clay Mann is not at all who I expected to be attached to this series but one who makes me extremely happy to know he is!  His art is amazing and this will if nothing else be a beautiful book!  It sounds like Chu might actually get Ivy as a character and I love the fact that she recognizes that Ivy is (in her words) Lex Luthor smart...that phrase right there makes me ecstatic!
I was looking forward to this before, now I am anxiously awaiting!!

----------


## PwrdOn

This looks like the start of a push to turn Ivy into a full fledged heroine, especially since with the new toyline they'll want to clean up some of the sexist and anachronistic elements of the character and promote her as a role model to young girls.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Well also don't forget she is getting framed for a murder. Maybe whoever is trying to frame her made some plant people of thier own in order to frame Ivy. I'm interested in seeing how those three fit into all of this though!


Amy Chu emphasized on Ivy being Luthor-level smart and her capability to love people which is the reason I think Ivy is the one who genetically creates the flower girls. But let's see.




> This looks like the start of a push to turn Ivy into a full fledged heroine, especially since with the new toyline they'll want to clean up some of the sexist and anachronistic elements of the character and promote her as a role model to young girls.


Maybe not full-fledged heroine as Chu mentioned Ivy will still kill if need be, but yes, this definitely makes her seem an anti-heroine. Chu previously had tweeted how she hates it when a complex character like Ivy is reduced to a cackling psychopath. The more you read about Chu's views on Pam, the more reassuring things get.  :Smile:

----------


## Confuzzled

> Clay Mann is not at all who I expected to be attached to this series but one who makes me extremely happy to know he is!  His art is amazing and this will if nothing else be a beautiful book!  It sounds like Chu might actually get Ivy as a character and I love the fact that she recognizes that Ivy is (in her words) Lex Luthor smart...that phrase right there makes me ecstatic!
> I was looking forward to this before, now I am anxiously awaiting!!


Agree. Clay Mann is such a left-field choice but I'm so glad they picked him. He's a stud among the X-Men fanbase because of his brilliant work on _X-Men: Legacy_ and other titles. Hopefully him working on the mini pulls in many members of that massive fanbase too. This should appeal to their tastes anyway.

----------


## PwrdOn

> Amy Chu emphasized on Ivy being Luthor-level smart and her capability to love people which is the reason I think Ivy is the one who genetically creates the flower girls. But let's see.
> 
> Maybe not full-fledged heroine as Chu mentioned Ivy will still kill if need be, but yes, this definitely makes her seem an anti-heroine. Chu previously had tweeted how she hates it when a complex character like Ivy is reduced to a cackling psychopath. The more you read about Chu's views on Pam, the more reassuring things get.


Pod people are still a little creepy and unsettling and I think they need to play it a bit more subtle if they want to avoid swerving back into cartoon villain territory.  Maybe the flower children could be terminally ill patients that she saves by infusing them with plant DNA or whatever.  These characters need to be established as actual people and not just plant monsters.

----------


## MentalManipulator

Wow!!! Clay Mann! One my favorite artists! Best news of NYCC !

----------


## Confuzzled

> Pod people are still a little creepy and unsettling and I think they need to play it a bit more subtle if they want to avoid swerving back into cartoon villain territory.  Maybe the flower children could be terminally ill patients that she saves by infusing them with plant DNA or whatever.  These characters need to be established as actual people and not just plant monsters.


I get where the concerns are coming from regarding Ivy created plant people considering that godawful Harvest from Paul Dini's _Stalked_ and the creepy way the plant clones were used in _Batman: The Animated Series_ and _The New Batman Adventures_. But it was pretty moving when, at the end of the episode _House & Garden_, Ivy sadly looks at the photo of her plant family as she leaves Gotham by air, insinuating that maybe deep down she just wants a family of her own. One of her previous creations, Ferak from the No Man's Land days, was just a protective guardian race of plant women who looked out for Ivy and the orphans she was looking after in Robinson Park.

Also, women or children springing from plants and flowers isn't always a creepy concept. It was used plentifully in old world mythology and lore as the origin of goddesses, princesses and fairies, one of the most famous being the Japanese folk tale Princess Kaguya. The story I mentioned before, Hans Christian Andersen's Thumbelina, has a barren woman wanting a child, plant a magical barleycorn which grows into a flower bearing a little girl child. This seems to be a sci-fi/superhero spin on that concept, and I'm sure any possible daughters created by Ivy will be more violent than the heroines from those fairytales, but the emotional dynamics could work pretty wonderfully if handled well.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Wow!!! Clay Mann! One my favorite artists! Best news of NYCC !


Preach! So surprising and awesome.

----------


## RedQueen

Is this still a mini? From the descriptions I've been reading it sounds like an ongoing but could just be out of context.

I hope it does well and it will be an ongoing. 

I'm surprised it's taken this long for someone to sweep up Clay Mann. He's done some excellent work on X-Men Legacy and Age of X is probably one of the most beautifully drawn Marvel events since ever.

I like his Ivy. She looks pretty but dangerous.

----------


## Green Ghost

Clay Mann posted a better look at the cover on his Instagram:
12104974_735160949922497_490994365_n.jpg

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Is this still a mini? From the descriptions I've been reading it sounds like an ongoing but could just be out of context.
> 
> I hope it does well and it will be an ongoing. 
> 
> I'm surprised it's taken this long for someone to sweep up Clay Mann. He's done some excellent work on X-Men Legacy and Age of X is probably one of the most beautifully drawn Marvel events since ever.
> 
> I like his Ivy. She looks pretty but dangerous.


Yep, still a miniseries, I believe that has not changed. However, I hope that it sells really well and sparks an ongoing with the same team haha.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> Clay Mann posted a better look at the cover on his Instagram:
> 12104974_735160949922497_490994365_n.jpg


Gorgeous! I love his take on the uniform ! A mix nod to the classic look with the biosuit! I have high hopes for this book…great artist and an enthusiast writer

----------


## taylortexas

Those do in-fact appear to be some sort of freaky plant people embryos in the pods. I'm excited for this one!

----------


## Green Ghost

From Clay Mann's Instagram:

----------


## Dylan Davison

And here it is:



Sounds like it's coming January 2016!

It looks so awesome, I love it! So excited.

----------


## Green Ghost

Solicits are out and CBR even put Ivy in the title...




> POISON IVY: CYCLE OF LIFE AND DEATH #1
> 
> 
> 
> Written by AMY CHU
> Art and cover by CLAY MANN
> 1:25 Variant cover by TERRY DODSON and RACHEL DODSON
> On sale JANUARY 20 • 32 pg, FC, 1 of 6, $2.99 US • RATED T
> Retailers: This issue will ship with two covers. Please see the order form for details.
> Life. Death. Poison Ivy has power over both. But can she keep her friends and hold down a regular job at the same time? As Dr. Pamela Isley, she joins the prestigious plant sciences department at Gotham Botanical Gardens, but things quickly get complicated when a fellow scientist is murdered and it looks like the work of Ivy. Don’t miss the start of this new 6-issue miniseries!


and it'll get a *variant by Terry & Rachel Dodson*...yay!

----------


## Green Ghost

Also ComicVine has a short interview with Amy Chu & Clay Mann from NYCC.

Mann already corrected himself on twitter:



> totally meant objectify not glorify... This is why I don't like the camera

----------


## Frontier

> Solicits are out and CBR even put Ivy in the title...
> 
> 
> 
> and it'll get a *variant by Terry & Rachel Dodson*...yay!


So...she's using her real name at her Botanical Gardens job? That doesn't sound smart...unless this takes place before Poison Ivy was a well-known Supervillain?

----------


## Flash Gordon

> And here it is:
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like it's coming January 2016!
> 
> It looks so awesome, I love it! So excited.


Wow that is gorgeous.

----------


## Confuzzled

> So...she's using her real name at her Botanical Gardens job? That doesn't sound smart...unless this takes place before Poison Ivy was a well-known Supervillain?


Maybe she has been released from Arkham after successfully being rehabilitated and cleared off previous crimes?

----------


## mathew101281

Anyone find the tendency to push any super villainess that becomes popular onto the path of anti hero slightly annoying. And it's distinctly a female villain thing to. No ones looking to turn the Joker or Darkseid into an antihero.

----------


## Green Ghost

> Anyone find the tendency to push any super villainess that becomes popular onto the path of anti hero slightly annoying. And it's distinctly a female villain thing to. No ones looking to turn the Joker or Darkseid into an antihero.


But for Ivy the anti-hero angle makes more sense then just a straight up villain. Her intentions are good, she wants to save the enviroment, which would be good for all humanity. She'll still kill for her cause, but I think/hope the psycho-"kill all humans"-Ivy is gone. So we should get a more interesting characterization of Ivy in the future.

----------


## The_Greatest_Username

I think killing for her cause is a good place to draw the line. I hate when a good villainess is defanged, but with Ivy it's a different case because she has a more righteous cause. She just takes it a bit too far.

I'm really excited for January.

----------


## Confuzzled

Magneto is the most prominent example of villain turned anti-hero in comics so I disagree with the notion that they do it only for villainesses. And as people have said, like Magneto it suits Ivy's philosophies and MO.

----------


## Docz

> And here it is:
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like it's coming January 2016!
> 
> It looks so awesome, I love it! So excited.


Really dig the cover, and if we're getting a variant by the Dodsons this will probably be the first book I pickup different covers of in a long while.  I'm not too familiar with the creative team, but Amy Chu seems so genuinely enthusiastic for the book and if the cover is any indication of the overall art then I have really high hopes for the mini.  Hoping this really takes off and blooms (I'm sorry) into an ongoing for Ivy, as much as I enjoy her cameos in the Harley books I would really love to see her branch (ok I'm really done now) out on her own.

----------


## Confuzzled

^Haha, the puns just roll off the tongue. I've lost count the number of times I've used "turn over a new leaf", "took root", "branched" and "blossom/bloom" in this thread myself.  :Stick Out Tongue: 

Btw, Poison Ivy ranked #38 on CSBG's Top 100 DC and Marvel Characters list. Just a spot behind Starfire and two behind Sinestro, who already have their solos.

----------


## The_Greatest_Username

> Magneto is the most prominent example of villain turned anti-hero in comics so I disagree with the notion that they do it only for villainesses. And as people have said, like Magneto it suits Ivy's philosophies and MO.


I never said they only do it for villainesses.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I never said they only do it for villainesses.


I was referring to matthew101281's post, the OP in that line of discussion.

----------


## Confuzzled

Canadian artist Steven Waters created a series of minimalist posters depicting the Batman Villains and the reason they commit their crimes. This one is Ivy's:



Love how he captures Pamela's maternal instinct for her plants by equating them to her children. See the rest of the gallery here.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> ^Haha, the puns just roll off the tongue. I've lost count the number of times I've used "turn over a new leaf", "took root", "branched" and "blossom/bloom" in this thread myself. 
> 
> Btw, Poison Ivy ranked #38 on CSBG's Top 100 DC and Marvel Characters list. Just a spot behind Starfire and two behind Sinestro, who already have their solos.


Cool…my two favorite female characters, Poison Ivy and Psylocke ranked 38th

----------


## triptrip

Hi all  :Smile:  I'm pretty new to DC but I'm mostly caught up on all Poison Ivy's stories. Loved her since i was a kid. 

I flew through her stories without paying much heed to the writers and artists but now I'm curious. Are there any writers and artists who do her really well? (Aside from Timm and Dini. And I don't mind Connor/Palmiotti's Ivy; the whole series is basically the mind-trips and delusions of Harley from her perspective.)  Can't help but notice the art goes to a whole 'nother level whenever Ivy's around.  :Embarrassment:

----------


## Confuzzled

Hello triptrip, welcome to this cosy corner of Ivy fandom! I'm sure you will love it here as we have a bunch of posters who very diligently update the thread with all the latest Poison Ivy developments in comics, shows, cartoons, video games and fan/professional artist work. And you may also discuss past Ivy appearances and stories to your heart's content.  :Smile: 

With the nature of rotating creative teams in mainstream comics, no single team has managed to use Ivy as long as Dini/Timm. However, there have been a number of good writers who have featured her in prominent stories such as Neil Gaiman, Ann Nocenti, Gail Simone and Christy Marx. And you must have heard of the upcoming Poison Ivy mini-series in January with Amy Chu on story and Clay Mann on art.

Anyways, here is a pretty extensive list of the best Poison Ivy stories.

Batman #181: *Beware of Poison Ivy!* (Debut)
Secret Origins Vol. 2 #36: *Pavane* (Neil Gaiman Origin)
Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight Vol. 1 #42-43: *Hothouse*
*Batman: Shadow of the Bat 1995 Annual #3*
Batman: Shadow of the Bat #56-58: *Leaves of Green* (3-parter involving Jason Woodrue)
*Batman: Poison Ivy 1997 One-Shot* 
Batman: No Man's Land *Fruit of the Earth* 3-parter (Batman: Shadow of the Bat #88, Batman #568, Detective Comics #735)
Batman Poison Ivy: *Cast Shadows* (Ann Nocenti One-Shot)
"*Low*" (Detective Comics #797-799 backstory where she mentally and physically destroys Riddler)
[B]New 52 Birds of Prey #3
Batgirl Annual #2
Secret Origins #10 Poison Ivy


Batman #367 (January 1984): "The Green Ghosts of Gotham" 
Detective Comics #534 (January 1984): "Brambles"

_Poison_, *Solo #6*: Ivy as the archetypal female play-thing of men, told only as Brian Azzarello can, illustrated by the master Jordi Bernet    
_Nature_, *Gotham Central #32*: Orphan mother brutally slaughters a couple of crooked cops who are leaning on her kids; up their with _Black Orchid_ for Ivy at her most terrifying.
_Green Ghost/Brambles_, *Batman 367, Tec 534*: Vintage hating-on-the-man Ivy is literally slapped around and strangled by enforcers of the corporate establishment, Batman & Robin (Pre-Crisis Jason!). Beautifully drawn by Gene Colan and Don Newton. 
_Tears of Blood_: *Batman #529*, one issue from the Contagion crossover that works well enough on it's own. Why include it? Kelly Jones. Single greatest depiction of Ivy's lethal attraction ever. In a classic double cross and blackmail plot. 

A special thanks to Nepenthes and JBatmanFan05 for their help in compiling this list (comments for the stories in the last section are courtesy Nepenthes). I should probably ask Power Torch to paste the list under "Poison Ivy Reading Essentials" in the first post of the thread.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Cool…my two favorite female characters, Poison Ivy and Psylocke ranked 38th


My Marvel fav Mary Jane didn't even rank in the Marvel Top 50.  :Frown:  Understandable though since she is not a superhero and there is stiff competition from the Avengers, X-Men and all their spin-off characters.

----------


## PwrdOn

I must be one of the only people who actually enjoyed Batman and Robin unironically.  Granted even as a 12 year old it wasn't hard to tell that the movie wasn't high art or anything like that, but I did genuinely enjoy it at the time and didn't find out until much later that everyone apparently hated it.  Obviously, Poison Ivy was the highlight of the movie, I've always liked Uma Thurman and she seemed to have a lot of fun chewing scenery and embracing the over the top campiness which you would never see these days.  It really did feel like she jumped straight out of a comic book, they even managed to give her a picture perfect costume design though I'll never understand why they changed it halfway through.  The really odd thing about this movie is that ended up becoming quite memorable and quotable, despite the fact that it never really developed any kind of cult following and isn't  regarded as being "so bad it's good."  Just try googling "what killed the dinosaurs" and see what the autocomplete suggests....

----------


## blohan

> But for Ivy the anti-hero angle makes more sense then just a straight up villain. Her intentions are good, she wants to save the enviroment, which would be good for all humanity. She'll still kill for her cause, but I think/hope the psycho-"kill all humans"-Ivy is gone. So we should get a more interesting characterization of Ivy in the future.


Why though? In her first appearances she was just a criminal with a plant motif. Nothing more. I think it's way more interesting if she was a serial killer whose m.o. is using plant based poisons. And the original poster is right, the anti-hero thing happens only with females. It seems sexist. Her saving plants really works only in very few instances, it worked great on The Animated Series but in the comics it's ridiculous.

----------


## blohan

> I must be one of the only people who actually enjoyed Batman and Robin unironically.  Granted even as a 12 year old it wasn't hard to tell that the movie wasn't high art or anything like that, but I did genuinely enjoy it at the time and didn't find out until much later that everyone apparently hated it.  Obviously, Poison Ivy was the highlight of the movie, I've always liked Uma Thurman and she seemed to have a lot of fun chewing scenery and embracing the over the top campiness which you would never see these days.  It really did feel like she jumped straight out of a comic book, they even managed to give her a picture perfect costume design though I'll never understand why they changed it halfway through.  The really odd thing about this movie is that ended up becoming quite memorable and quotable, despite the fact that it never really developed any kind of cult following and isn't  regarded as being "so bad it's good."  Just try googling "what killed the dinosaurs" and see what the autocomplete suggests....


Her Poison Ivy was really great. The costume was beyond glorious. I think they changed it because they didn't want to make it look like a costume? When she first appears it is a costume party, so it makes sense but using it later on wouldn't. Her costume in the comics doesn't make much sense either actually, but they solved it by just changing her clothes because the other clothes are just her day wear, she's a bit crazy but less costumey.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Why though? In her first appearances she was just a criminal with a plant motif. Nothing more. I think it's way more interesting if she was a serial killer whose m.o. is using plant based poisons. *And the original poster is right, the anti-hero thing happens only with females.*







> Her saving plants really works only in very few instances, it worked great on The Animated Series but in the comics it's ridiculous.


What? Environmental issues, including global warming, have been pressing topics since the 90's! Ivy brings up a very relevant point.

----------


## Confuzzled

The November Comics Preview catalogue "Previews" apparently offers a sneak peek at _Poison Ivy: Cycle of Life and Death #1_. The cover is even featured on the back of the catalogue:

----------


## Confuzzled

CraveOnline unveiled a preview of the DC Collectibles Tarot Card set by Sara Richard, which depicts DC heroes and villains as different cards from the tarot deck. Pamela is "The Empress".






> The Empress of the tarot deck is said to have dominion over growing crops and other plant life. Poison Ivy fills that role in the DC Universe, but not always for the benefit of mankind.


Logical fit.  :Smile:  Check out some of the other cards here.

----------


## t hedge coke

> Why though? In her first appearances she was just a criminal with a plant motif. Nothing more. I think it's way more interesting if she was a serial killer whose m.o. is using plant based poisons. And the original poster is right, the anti-hero thing happens only with females. It seems sexist. Her saving plants really works only in very few instances, it worked great on The Animated Series but in the comics it's ridiculous.


The shift comes in most strongly with Gaiman, doesn't it? Even though she's still a horrible killer, she's mentally unfit, so to speak.

I think, in general, I prefer her a plant-themed killer and villain more than any kind of "misled do-gooder," but *Cast Shadows* and other comics have made good use of her being traumatized and genuinely confused in her illness. (*Cast Shadows is so so good.*.)

----------


## PwrdOn

> The shift comes in most strongly with Gaiman, doesn't it? Even though she's still a horrible killer, she's mentally unfit, so to speak.
> 
> I think, in general, I prefer her a plant-themed killer and villain more than any kind of "misled do-gooder," but *Cast Shadows* and other comics have made good use of her being traumatized and genuinely confused in her illness. (*Cast Shadows is so so good.*.)


I don't think that Ivy is necessarily unhinged, she just has extreme views and is willing to go to any lengths to accomplish her goals.  Even her murderous streak isn't necessarily indicative of insanity, since she just priorities plant life over human life which is somewhat justified under the selfish gene concept.

----------


## retical

> The shift comes in most strongly with Gaiman, doesn't it? Even though she's still a horrible killer, she's mentally unfit, so to speak.
> 
> I think, in general, I prefer her a plant-themed killer and villain more than any kind of "misled do-gooder," but *Cast Shadows* and other comics have made good use of her being traumatized and genuinely confused in her illness. (*Cast Shadows is so so good.*.)


I prefer her as an anti-villain/anti-hero. Plant-themed killer is very boring and makes no sense unless the story is comedic or parody. I hope the new book focuses more on her as a do-gooder and less as a plant themed serial killer.

----------


## t hedge coke

> I prefer her as an anti-villain/anti-hero. Plant-themed killer is very boring and makes no sense unless the story is comedic or parody. I hope the new book focuses more on her as a do-gooder and less as a plant themed serial killer.


The problem I have with that angle, primarily, is that a) I'm not sympathetic enough to be "forgiving" or lenient with her actions, and b) too many of her actions don't adhere for it to make much sense (depending on how much is still in continuity). But, there's an audience for that, so I'm happy with them having comics that appeal. I'm not a big enough Ivy fan to complain, really.

----------


## Agent Z

> The problem I have with that angle, primarily, is that a) I'm not sympathetic enough to be "forgiving" or lenient with her actions, and *b) too many of her actions don't adhere for it to make much sense* (depending on how much is still in continuity). But, there's an audience for that, so I'm happy with them having comics that appeal. I'm not a big enough Ivy fan to complain, really.


I'm not sure what you mean by this.

----------


## t hedge coke

> I'm not sure what you mean by this.


The extent of her villainy, taken as a whole, doesn't really align with "do-gooder who just believes plants are more important." Her sadism and control issues, at the very least aren't defensible under "plants are more important," any more than me taking scissors and slowly snipping away parts of a flower because **@^* that flower* would be. There is too much of a personal satisfaction in causing pain or subjugating to simply be means to an end. (Depending, again, on how much of her past is in continuity now.)

----------


## Confuzzled

Hipster Punk Ivy by Dan Mora


Ivy and the Bat by Gary Frank

----------


## Confuzzled

> The extent of her villainy, taken as a whole, doesn't really align with "do-gooder who just believes plants are more important." Her sadism and control issues, at the very least aren't defensible under "plants are more important," any more than me taking scissors and slowly snipping away parts of a flower because **@^* that flower* would be. There is too much of a personal satisfaction in causing pain or subjugating to simply be means to an end. (Depending, again, on how much of her past is in continuity now.)


I don't know which story you are talking about but I have a sneaking suspicion it is that godawful _Stalked_ by Paul Dini.  :Stick Out Tongue:  It didn't make sense for Ivy to be a soulless sadist then (especially after the whole Robinson Park orphans saga) and it doesn't make sense now. Anyways, the New 52 has consistently portrayed her on the sympathetic side so this is just a natural progression for her character.

----------


## t hedge coke

> I don't know which story you are talking about but I have a sneaking suspicion it is that godawful _Stalked_ by Paul Dini.  It didn't make sense for Ivy to be a soulless sadist then (especially after the whole Robinson Park orphans saga) and it doesn't make sense now. Anyways, the New 52 has consistently portrayed her on the sympathetic side so this is just a natural progression for her character.


I wasn't. I'm not even sure I know where that one is. I'm afraid, I'm thinking of Bronze Age stuff, but also Knightfall era stories, Hush, Black Orchid issues, Cast Shadows, Gotham Sirens or whatever it was called, etc, though there's certainly a range, and she's not a sadist, usually, in the sense or to the level of, say, the Joker. But she's not a nice person doing things because they are "necessary," is what I mean, she is getting pleasure, and does exhibit some compulsive behavior.

But, I think with the DCnU, she has been much more in control, though internment in Arkham still stands. So it probably is, if none of that old stuff counts, more reasonable now. (I still find it less interesting, and, really, even less sympathetic than if she's legitimately and practically mentally ill and traumatized.)

----------


## Confuzzled

> I wasn't. I'm not even sure I know where that one is. I'm afraid, I'm thinking of Bronze Age stuff, but also Knightfall era stories, Hush, Black Orchid issues, Cast Shadows, Gotham Sirens or whatever it was called, etc, though there's certainly a range, and she's not a sadist, usually, in the sense or to the level of, say, the Joker. But she's not a nice person doing things because they are "necessary," is what I mean, she is getting pleasure, and does exhibit some compulsive behavior.
> 
> But, I think with the DCnU, she has been much more in control, though internment in Arkham still stands. So it probably is, if none of that old stuff counts, more reasonable now. (I still find it less interesting, and, really, even less sympathetic than if she's legitimately and practically mentally ill and traumatized.)


Pre-Nu52, there were lots of stories where she was committing petty crimes (and controlling Superman and Selina like in Hush) just for the fun of it. And I think the Riddler insinuated she had a thing for Catwoman, which... makes more sense than her falling for Harley. In Black Orchid she was just this wild force of scary female fury. I wouldn't call her taking pleasure in doing bad things any more than I would say a typhoon takes pleasure in the damage it brings about. She was shown to be capable of sympathetic feelings for human beings even there though. Also, just because she took pleasure in theft and smaller crimes doesn't mean she cannot be an anti-heroine. Selina is a fine example of that. You were right about the lack of control thing and she is more put together in the New 52. The Gail Simone Batgirl annual however made a point about how the seasons affected her psyche, trying to give an explanation for her inconsistent depictions through the years, I guess. No idea whether that will be carried over or acknowledged in the mini.

----------


## Frontier

> Hipster Punk Ivy by Dan Mora


I think I get the punk part from the hairstyle but I'm not sure what makes her a hipster in this, since the design is basically her classic costume. Is it because it looks like it's made from actual plants? 




> Ivy and the Bat by Gary Frank


Gary Frank should draw Poison Ivy more often  :Big Grin: .

----------


## Confuzzled

> I think I get the punk part from the hairstyle but I'm not sure what makes her a hipster in this, since the design is basically her classic costume. Is it because it looks like it's made from actual plants?


Clothes made of real plants, she's sporting mossy arm wraps, neon green nail paint and I'm not even sure what that dark gauze running from her neck to chest is.

Still, sexy interpretation of Ivy is sexy.

----------


## PwrdOn

> I wasn't. I'm not even sure I know where that one is. I'm afraid, I'm thinking of Bronze Age stuff, but also Knightfall era stories, Hush, Black Orchid issues, Cast Shadows, Gotham Sirens or whatever it was called, etc, though there's certainly a range, and she's not a sadist, usually, in the sense or to the level of, say, the Joker. But she's not a nice person doing things because they are "necessary," is what I mean, she is getting pleasure, and does exhibit some compulsive behavior.
> 
> But, I think with the DCnU, she has been much more in control, though internment in Arkham still stands. So it probably is, if none of that old stuff counts, more reasonable now. (I still find it less interesting, and, really, even less sympathetic than if she's legitimately and practically mentally ill and traumatized.)


In general, I find it troubling that comics push this notion that villainy is to be equated with mental illness, and I'm sad to see the extent to which that perception has permeated society as a whole.  In order to be genuinely evil, people need to be in full control of their actions and carry out their dastardly deeds willfully and with full comprehension of the consequences.  Mentally ill people cannot fit this definition because they aren't fully aware of what they're doing, and need society to sympathize with them and treat their conditions before something happens, rather than ostracizing and isolating them, which only makes the problem worse.  Labeling murderers and rapists as "psychos" and "madmen" is totally unproductive, since most of them know exactly what they're doing and painting them all as mentally disturbed completely relieves them of responsibility for their actions, while at the same time painting genuinely sick people as potential criminals rather than people i need of help.

----------


## darkseidpwns

I dont consider myself an Ivy expert by any means but I was bit bummed to see that I have read all the stories in the essentials list. Now I really want a modern Batman/Ivy story, and one that is sensible and spectacular like the 97 one shot.

----------


## Agent Z

> In general, I find it troubling that comics push this notion that villainy is to be equated with mental illness, and I'm sad to see the extent to which that perception has permeated society as a whole.  In order to be genuinely evil, people need to be in full control of their actions and carry out their dastardly deeds willfully and with full comprehension of the consequences.  Mentally ill people cannot fit this definition because they aren't fully aware of what they're doing, and need society to sympathize with them and treat their conditions before something happens, rather than ostracizing and isolating them, which only makes the problem worse.  Labeling murderers and rapists as "psychos" and "madmen" is totally unproductive, since most of them know exactly what they're doing and painting them all as mentally disturbed completely relieves them of responsibility for their actions, while at the same time painting genuinely sick people as potential criminals rather than people i need of help.


Agreed very much. It's why I wish Arkham Asylum would be excised from the Bat comics or at least altered that it feels more modern. 

It's funny that of all the things that are treated as dated in comics (the Invisible Jet, the Robins) the way mental illness is treated isn't one of them.

----------


## t hedge coke

> Agreed very much. It's why I wish Arkham Asylum would be excised from the Bat comics or at least altered that it feels more modern. 
> 
> It's funny that of all the things that are treated as dated in comics (the Invisible Jet, the Robins) the way mental illness is treated isn't one of them.


There are enough Robins around. And - hell, now I can't remember does Wonder Woman have an invisible jet right now?

In general, I do agree, especially when used lazily. I'm not a giant Harley fan or a fan of Dini's Ivy, really, because it's mental genre illness of convenience. (You enunciate that stream of words the same as saying "Piiiiiiiiggss iiiiiiiinnnn Sppaaaaaaaaace.")

But, I think that being traumatized, and having compulsions does help justify Ivy's traditional behaviors and her swings from extreme to extreme. I think there, when handled well, it does help her be more sympathetic. Cast Shadows goes to lengths to keep her, even when she's hurting someone, from being a "supervillain," under the same logic as someone not being able to stand trial because of competency issues. She much more reacting than acting, if that makes sense. I think you see the same in Black Orchid stuff.

I think she's better as a person with severe problems than as a straight up villain or antihero/antivillain.

Whereas I've never seen a Joker who didn't seem incompetent to stand trial or unaware of the moral ramifications of his actions on an emotional or logical level. Joker is genre insane, not mentally ill.

----------


## Confuzzled

I think _Cast Shadows_ and _Black Orchid_ Ivy can perfectly be labelled as an anti-villain. IMO, anti-villain to anti-hero is a pretty natural (no pun) progression (among other possibilities) for a character if you don't want them to get stale.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I dont consider myself an Ivy expert by any means but I was bit bummed to see that I have read all the stories in the essentials list. Now I really want a modern Batman/Ivy story, and one that is sensible and spectacular like the 97 one shot.


Well, there is the Poison Ivy mini coming in January! So there is something to look forward to.  :Big Grin:  Agreed that the '97 one shot was super.

----------


## juan678

art by Fred Benes

----------


## juan678

Poison Ivy #2 cover. Ivy coming in January

----------


## Confuzzled

> Poison Ivy #2 cover. Ivy coming in January


It's not just a gorgeous and fun cover but the image of Ivy seducing and bringing cops to their knees is a very politically charged and relevant one in the current climate.

----------


## Old Man Ollie 1962

Pamela Isley, Jason Woodrue, Alec and Linda Holland all attended to the same college and went into the same field of study. Was that Neil Gaiman's idea or was that already canon?

----------


## Confuzzled

> Pamela Isley, Jason Woodrue, Alec and Linda Holland all attended to the same college and went into the same field of study. Was that Neil Gaiman's idea or was that already canon?


It was Neil Gaiman's idea and first introduced in _Black Orchid_ to the best of my knowledge. Alan Moore had previously established a connection between Woodrue and Holland in _Swamp Thing_ but there were no references to them being acquaintances in the past.

----------


## t hedge coke

It's Black Orchid. He really put that together beautifully. And tragically.

----------


## Frontier

> Poison Ivy #2 cover. Ivy coming in January


This reminds me that being framed for murder actually shouldn't be much of hassle for Ivy since her pheromones let her prevent most of the GCPD from actually arresting or bothering her. Though that would probably change once Batman gets wind of what's going on...

Really nice cover  :Smile: .

Also interesting to think how it differs from Harley's "getting arrested" cover and what that says about both ladies. On Harley's it seems like she's having fun with it while Ivy's makes it clear that she remains completely in control of the situation.

----------


## Old Man Ollie 1962

> It was Neil Gaiman's idea and first introduced in _Black Orchid_ to the best of my knowledge. Alan Moore had previously established a connection between Woodrue and Holland in _Swamp Thing_ but there were no references to them being acquaintances in the past.


Coke was right. Gaiman showed us a Pamela filled with such. . .pathos. . .how could you not be moved?

BlackOrchidTPB-0961a.jpg

----------


## Confuzzled

^Gaiman was also the one to introduce the concept of Ivy having supernatural Earth goddess powers in his origin story for her, _Pavane_. He also established in that story that she was mentally unbalanced and dangerous enough to be admitted to Arkham, which previous to that was just an asylum for the criminally insane dudebros if I remember correctly. 

Regarding _Black Orchid_, Ivy's appearance in the book still remains seminal. I wish if she is ever introduced in the DC movie universe, then they first show her incarcerated in Arkham like that, using some of those very lines. Such a scene would be completely at home in say a _Suicide Squad_ film. An actual Black Orchid film may never happen, even though I have heard that Rachel McAdams has been trying to get the project off the ground for years now.

----------


## Green Ghost

Full solicits for #2:



> POISON IVY: CYCLE OF LIFE AND DEATH #2
> Written by AMY CHU
> Art and cover by CLAY MANN
> On sale FEBRUARY 17 • 32 pg, FC, 2 of 6, $2.99 US • RATED T
> Murder in the lab! As the police investigate the death of her mentor, Dr. Pamela Isley suspects poisoning! But by whom, and why? Before the cops suspect her alter ego, Poison Ivy, Pam needs to find the true murderer. Meanwhile, her DNA experiments are about to pay off!


I love that cover so much!


Also we'll see Ivy for the first time in the Dark Knight Returns Universe:




> THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS: THE LAST CRUSADE #1
> Written by FRANK MILLER and BRIAN AZZARELLO
> Art by JOHN ROMITA, JR. and BILL SIENKIEWICZ
> Cover by JOHN ROMITA, JR. and DANNY MIKI
> 1:10 Robin Variant cover by LEE BERMEJO
> 1:25 Variant cover by BILL SIENKIEWICZ
> 1:100 Variant cover by FRANK MILLER
> 1:500 Variant cover by JIM LEE
> One-shot • Prestige Format • On sale FEBRUARY 17 • 64 pg, FC, $7.99 US
> ...


I am a little scared for this, because how Selina was treated in TDKR...

----------


## Confuzzled

Uh oh. Knowing Frank Miller, Pamela will probably be a hooker the Joker employs to seduce and lure Jason into a trap before he brutally murders both of them.

----------


## Confuzzled

Clay Mann is really bringing it! Didn't notice the lower cop's hand bleeding from the thorns of the rose. There is so much subtext going on in that single image. The solicits sound exciting too. January can't come soon enough for this series.

----------


## Green Ghost

> Clay Mann is really bringing it! Didn't notice the lower cop's hand bleeding from the thorns of the rose. There is so much subtext going on in that single image. The solicits sound exciting too. January can't come soon enough for this series.


Newsarama has an interview with Amy Chu and even two preview pages, here's one:


They also had an interview with Clay Mann last week with some costume sketches!

Nice to see that the book is getting coverage!

----------


## Starchild

Well, I'm glad she remembers that Ivy is a very intelligent individual. Writers usually tend to focus on the sex appeal aspect of the character too much. My 2nd favorite Bat villain finally getting her due.


*crossesfingersforkillercroc*

----------


## Confuzzled

> Newsarama has an interview with Amy Chu and even two preview pages, here's one:
> 
> 
> They also had an interview with Clay Mann last week with some costume sketches!
> 
> Nice to see that the book is getting coverage!


Wowee, how gorgeous is this book going to be? The Chu interview was fun and reassuring. The Mann interview was interesting, especially when he cites the Timm/Dini/Pershing animated Ivy to be such a huge influence for his work. Also loved the preview page with the different proposed "flower/plant" costumes and the suggestion that Ivy would have more high fashion skewing tastes than her buds Harley and Selina.  :Big Grin:

----------


## t hedge coke

> Well, I'm glad she remembers that Ivy is a very intelligent individual. Writers usually tend to focus on the sex appeal aspect of the character too much.


This is something that Dini falls into a lot, that gets on my nerves. Women are who referenced as intelligent, as educated, but spend the story being stupid and cheesecake. Not that I'm opposed to Ivy cheesecake, but I'd like her to be mildly intelligent and, y'know, a threat.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> This is something that Dini falls into a lot, that gets on my nerves. Women are who referenced as intelligent, as educated, but spend the story being stupid and cheesecake. Not that I'm opposed to Ivy cheesecake, but I'd like her to be mildly intelligent and, y'know, a threat.


So excited for this…the art looks gorgeous and I'm super glad they're going to address her intellect and her enormous power potential :-)

----------


## retical

> Newsarama has an interview with Amy Chu and even two preview pages, here's one:
> 
> 
> They also had an interview with Clay Mann last week with some costume sketches!
> 
> Nice to see that the book is getting coverage!


The art is stunning! And acknowledging her intelligence is important. Very excited to see that Chu sees her as more than a sexy sidekick. I hope Harley stays far away from this book and Ivy shinning a bit on her own.

----------


## PwrdOn

> This is something that Dini falls into a lot, that gets on my nerves. Women are who referenced as intelligent, as educated, but spend the story being stupid and cheesecake. Not that I'm opposed to Ivy cheesecake, but I'd like her to be mildly intelligent and, y'know, a threat.


I don't necessarily think sex appeal is holding Ivy back, it's just that in comics villains typically don't seem very intimidating if they aren't a physical threat, and while Ivy has a lot of dangerous qualities she can't punch her way out of a wet paper bag so it's always going to be an uphill climb to establish that villainous presence.  Also when it comes to evil genius type characters, they're inherently limited by the fact that they can only ever be as smart as their writer is, and they have difficulty living up to their purported intellect.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I don't necessarily think sex appeal is holding Ivy back, it's just that in comics villains typically don't seem very intimidating if they aren't a physical threat, and while Ivy has a lot of dangerous qualities *she can't punch her way out of a wet paper bag* so it's always going to be an uphill climb to establish that villainous presence.  Also when it comes to evil genius type characters, they're inherently limited by the fact that they can only ever be as smart as their writer is, and they have difficulty living up to their purported intellect.


She's not THAT frail lol. And many depictions show her as being a pretty competent physical threat. Not Bane level obviously but the same as some other male Bat rogues like Two-Face and Scarecrow. Of course there will be double standards in how her physical capability is viewed because she is a woman who is not a bruiser type.

And yes, while her sexiness does not hold her back, the society we live in pushes beliefs like "Beauty does not usually come along with brains", bimbo stereotypes etc. etc. You don't even have to look beyond the opening of the Newsarama interview for Clay Mann to see an example of this:




> _Debuting in January, the six-issue Poison Ivy: Cycle of Life and Death series explores the sexy but smart villainess' power..._


Umm... what's that "but" doing there lol. It's like they think sexiness is the opposite of smarts. Unfortunately, a lot of fanboys _and_ creators hold the same opinion, which ends up influencing their interpretation of Poison Ivy. Hence the need to focus heavily on her intellect and other qualities.

----------


## LoneNecromancer

> This is something that Dini falls into a lot, that gets on my nerves. Women are who referenced as intelligent, as educated, but spend the story being stupid and cheesecake. Not that I'm opposed to Ivy cheesecake, but I'd like her to be mildly intelligent and, y'know, a threat.


Yeah, agreed. This is actually why I dislike the Harley/Ivy pairing, it tends to reduce her to that a lot.




> I don't necessarily think sex appeal is holding Ivy back, it's just that in comics villains typically don't seem very intimidating if they aren't a physical threat, and while Ivy has a lot of dangerous qualities she can't punch her way out of a wet paper bag so it's always going to be an uphill climb to establish that villainous presence.  Also when it comes to evil genius type characters, they're inherently limited by the fact that they can only ever be as smart as their writer is, and they have difficulty living up to their purported intellect.


Ivy's pretty much Batman's most powerful villain. Like maybe Freeze and Clayface are up there too but Batman has more counters for them and her ability to control minds without even needing to go make a chemical or something I'd say gives her the edge.

I think that she gets the anti-hero treatment too much as well as being lumped in with Catwoman and Harley a lot for no real reason other than that they're the female Batman rogues that all holds her back from being a serious villain. And sometimes even when she is a villain sometimes she's just treated as not necessarily unhinged but just kinda dumb.

----------


## Confuzzled

The weird thing is Dini used to write the heck out of Ivy in the animated series and the older comics set in the DCAU. It was when he started getting high on his Harley obsession (and when she really started to break out) was when he stopped bothering to develop Ivy in a way that served _her own_ character and instead began to write her in a way that served _Harley's_ character. You can still see the after-effects of this in the way Pam is treated in Harley's ongoing.

But there is a plus side. The army of Harley fanatics are pretty fond of Ivy. Hopefully they check out her mini and really help boost its sales.  :Stick Out Tongue: 




> Ivy's pretty much Batman's most powerful villain. Like maybe Freeze and Clayface are up there too but Batman has more counters for them and her ability to control minds without even needing to go make a chemical or something I'd say gives her the edge.
> 
> I think that she gets the anti-hero treatment too much as well as being lumped in with Catwoman and Harley a lot for no real reason other than that they're the female Batman rogues that all holds her back from being a serious villain. And sometimes even when she is a villain sometimes she's just treated as not necessarily unhinged but just kinda dumb.


Among the Rogues, she is definitely the most powerful in terms of powers. Which is why I always find it dumb that she gets dispatched so easily when up against members of the Bat-Family. Meh, I think she is too appealing and rich a character to be reduced to just being a villain who sporadically appears in Bat-books anyway. She is Magneto-level in terms of complexities so I definitely feel she can carry her own solo just like him, provided she gets the right creative team (thankfully by the looks of it, Chu and Mann seem to fit the bill so far).

----------


## Agent Z

> Yeah, agreed. This is actually why I dislike the Harley/Ivy pairing, it tends to reduce her to that a lot.
> 
> 
> 
> Ivy's pretty much Batman's most powerful villain. Like maybe Freeze and Clayface are up there too but Batman has more counters for them and her ability to control minds without even needing to go make a chemical or something I'd say gives her the edge.
> 
> I think that she gets the anti-hero treatment too much as well as being lumped in with Catwoman and Harley a lot for no real reason other than that they're the female Batman rogues that all holds her back from being a serious villain. And sometimes even when she is a villain sometimes she's just treated as not necessarily unhinged but just kinda dumb.


I think Ivy's non-Harley interactions tend to have more cheesecake. At least with Harley she just acts like she actually cares for her, whereas in other cases she's the more generic femme fatale. 

As for the anti hero treatment, I'm more or less okay with it. Maybe, it will mean writers can come up with, you know, new villains.

----------


## Agent Z

> The weird thing is Dini used to write the heck out of Ivy in the animated series and the older comics set in the DCAU. It was when he started getting high on his Harley obsession (and when she really started to break out) was when he stopped bothering to develop Ivy in a way that served _her own_ character and instead began to write her in a way that served _Harley's_ character. You can still see the after-effects of this in the way Pam is treated in Harley's ongoing.
> 
> But there is a plus side. The army of Harley fanatics are pretty fond of Ivy. Hopefully they check out her mini and really help boost its sales. 
> 
> 
> 
> Among the Rogues, she is definitely the most powerful in terms of powers. Which is why I always find it dumb that she gets dispatched so easily when up against members of the Bat-Family. Meh, I think she is too appealing and rich a character to be reduced to just being a villain who sporadically appears in Bat-books anyway. She is Magneto-level in terms of complexities so I definitely feel she can carry her own solo just like him, provided she gets the right creative team (thankfully by the looks of it, Chu and Mann seem to fit the bill so far).


Electro from Spider-Man has a similar problem. He is way too powerful for Spider-Man yet gets beaten with ludicrous ease. Of course, the Spider-Man writers have the excuse that Electro is not very bright (no pun intended) whereas Ivy is supposed to be brilliant as well as powerful.

----------


## t hedge coke

> I think Ivy's non-Harley interactions tend to have more cheesecake.


Well, there is that time they had a bet on who could kiss all the men in Arkham first. And refused to wear more than a t-shirt and panties the whole time, to keep it interesting.

----------


## LoneNecromancer

> I think Ivy's non-Harley interactions tend to have more cheesecake. At least with Harley she just acts like she actually cares for her, whereas in other cases she's the more generic femme fatale.


To be honest, I just don't see why Ivy has a reason to hang out with Harley other than them just getting lumped together because they're both girls, or because Ivy was written to serve someone else's pet character. I mean, sure, I'd expect Ivy to feel bad for her being taken advantage of by the Joker considering her own past with Woodrue (if that's still canon), but I don't see why she'd have more interest in her than that.

----------


## Agent Z

> To be honest, I just don't see why Ivy has a reason to hang out with Harley other than them just getting lumped together because they're both girls, or because Ivy was written to serve someone else's pet character. I mean, sure, I'd expect Ivy to feel bad for her being taken advantage of by the Joker considering her own past with Woodrue (if that's still canon), but I don't see why she'd have more interest in her than that.


Well, there's the fact that they were both used and abused by men they trusted.

----------


## Confuzzled

I also feel Ivy's protective maternal instincts kick into gear when she's around Harley. It is an essential character trait that Pam has displayed towards vulnerable and helpless beings like her various plants and the orphans during No Man's Land.

It's for that reason why I'm not into the Harley/Ivy shipping. Ivy is compassionate enough to know Harley is incredibly vulnerable and requires help. Unlike the Joker, I don't see Ivy exploiting her, sexually or otherwise.

----------


## Old Man Ollie 1962

Dr. Pamela Isley. This woman has a Ph.D. Let's see some more stories focusing on Pamela's field of expertise. Let's see the "Dana Scully" in Pamela really come to fruition. Is that possible?

----------


## t hedge coke

> Ivy is compassionate enough to know Harley is incredibly vulnerable and requires help. Unlike the Joker, I don't see Ivy exploiting her, sexually or otherwise.


Sexually manipulating people and exploiting them is a big part of Ivy's existence as a character.

They're a "cute" enough couple, treated lightly (with murders), but by basic assumption would be that Ivy's exploiting Harley just as much as anyone, even if she's trying not to. Her methods of supporting Harley or trying to bring Harley out have been pretty invasive/dangerous/manipulative in general.

----------


## Old Man Ollie 1962

> Sexually manipulating people and exploiting them is a big part of Ivy's existence as a character.
> 
> They're a "cute" enough couple, treated lightly (with murders), but by basic assumption would be that Ivy's exploiting Harley just as much as anyone, even if she's trying not to. Her methods of supporting Harley or trying to bring Harley out have been pretty invasive/dangerous/manipulative in general.


Also one of the reasons I grew tired of the Ivy character. Coke, my idea doesn't have much of a chance to take root.

----------


## PwrdOn

> She's not THAT frail lol. And many depictions show her as being a pretty competent physical threat. Not Bane level obviously but the same as some other male Bat rogues like Two-Face and Scarecrow. Of course there will be double standards in how her physical capability is viewed because she is a woman who is not a bruiser type.


I generally like to see Ivy as thinking combat as beneath her, instead relying on her charm and wits to deal with her opponents, and if that doesn't work she usually has some hired muscle on hand to do the dirty work.  And given that her foes will likely be evil corporations or corrupt politicians, who can't really be defeated with mad kung fu skillz anyway, it can definitely work to her advantage in telling a more interesting story.

----------


## t hedge coke

> Also one of the reasons I grew tired of the Ivy character. Coke, my idea doesn't have much of a chance to take root.


It can happen. Gaiman, Nocenti, and Swierczynski have writtern her as educated and knowledgable, but yeah, generally her being knowledgable in her field, or educated at all, ends up being "she made a magic plant again" and it's more about how they can draw leaves coming off cleavage again.

----------


## retical

> It can happen. Gaiman, Nocenti, and Swierczynski have writtern her as educated and knowledgable, but yeah, generally her being knowledgable in her field, or educated at all, ends up being "she made a magic plant again" and it's more about how they can draw leaves coming off cleavage again.


Gaiman and Nocenti and Simone really get the character. Connor and Palmiotti's version is a total trainwreck but I guess they don't really care for good characterisation but more for cheap eye candy/sexy lesbian stuff because it sells. Their point is clearly sales and not quality or deep characters and I can't blame them for that (also a lot of readers want to "relax" at sexy Harley and Ivy pics). But I read that the new writer (Chu) is into science and will use people from the scientific community that she knows in Ivy's character so I expect a lot of depth. But of course, who know, amirite?

----------


## Agent Z

> Gaiman and Nocenti and Simone really get the character. Connor and Palmiotti's version is a total trainwreck but I guess they don't really care for good characterisation but more for cheap eye candy/sexy lesbian stuff because it sells. Their point is clearly sales and not quality or deep characters and I can't blame them for that (also a lot of readers want to "relax" at sexy Harley and Ivy pics). But I read that the new writer (Chu) is into science and will use people from the scientific community that she knows in Ivy's character so I expect a lot of depth. But of course, who know, amirite?


Will Ivy still have her "Green" powers in Chu's book?

----------


## Agent Z

> Also one of the reasons I grew tired of the Ivy character. Coke, my idea doesn't have much of a chance to take *root.*


I see what you did there.  :Wink:

----------


## Confuzzled

Lol Agent Z.




> I generally like to see Ivy as thinking combat as beneath her, instead relying on her charm and wits to deal with her opponents, and if that doesn't work she usually has some hired muscle on hand to do the dirty work.  And given that her foes will likely be evil corporations or corrupt politicians, who can't really be defeated with mad kung fu skillz anyway, it can definitely work to her advantage in telling a more interesting story.


Fair enough. But I'm biased towards the physically competent Ivy because I was introduced to her through BTAS of course, where she didn't shy from taking on people by chasing them lithely with just her little arm crossbow as the offensive weapon. Also, there was this.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## retical

> Will Ivy still have her "Green" powers in Chu's book?


I don't know. I hope she has. Unfortunately I don't follow the comic news and I don't know if she's gonna.

----------


## retical

Did you guys saw this?




This is from Clay Mann's web page. I'm not so sure about this. I'll be very disappointed if this turns into a Gotham City Sirens book. Wasn't this advertised as Ivy's book? 
Does this mean that the mini is not in continuity? Because as far as I remember Gotham City Sirens never happened in New 52. I might be wrong because I've been missing a lot of news and books.

----------


## t hedge coke

I don't think the three of them being in a pic together necessarily shouts Gotham City Sirens (or even Gotham Girls). They're villains from Gotham, two of which have definitely known each other in this continuity.

I'm not sure that Sirens couldn't still be roughly in continuity, though, not that I've read enough or remember enough to say definitively. In as much as Knightfall is still in, so to say.

But, Ivy, for some reason, is really reminding me of Delirium from Sandman, even though, natch, she's just leaning in for the pic.

----------


## retical

> I don't think the three of them being in a pic together necessarily shouts Gotham City Sirens (or even Gotham Girls). They're villains from Gotham, two of which have definitely known each other in this continuity.
> 
> I'm not sure that Sirens couldn't still be roughly in continuity, though, not that I've read enough or remember enough to say definitively. In as much as Knightfall is still in, so to say.
> 
> But, Ivy, for some reason, is really reminding me of Delirium from Sandman, even though, natch, she's just leaning in for the pic.


I'm not sure if this is a sidecut in Ivy's hair. Looks like every female character gets a sidecut these days lol  :Cool:

----------


## Confuzzled

> I'm not sure if this is a sidecut in Ivy's hair. Looks like every female character gets a sidecut these days lol


The Natalie Dormer effect.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Confuzzled

Why has Mann doodled Harley, Catwoman and Batgirl on Ivy's cellphone screen? Is he asking the letterer to add them as contacts? If so, I hope they remember to add in Starling, Katana and Black Canary too.  :Big Grin:

----------


## retical

> Why has Mann doodled Harley, Catwoman and Batgirl on Ivy's cellphone screen? Is he asking the letterer to add them as contacts? If so, I hope they remember to add in Starling, Katana and Black Canary too.


Yeah, that would be cool. I hope Birds of Prey get referenced in this book.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Yeah, that would be cool. I hope Birds of Prey get referenced in this book.


Yup, especially as she had a direct connection with them in the New 52 main universe as opposed to the Sirens, which is just in the Harley book as revealed so far.

----------


## Confuzzled

Amy Chu discusses her approach to Poison Ivy

----------


## Confuzzled



----------


## Frontier

Tara Strong playing both Harley and Ivy I was not expecting, even if it's kinda funny that it happened  :Stick Out Tongue: . 

I don't think Piera Coppola is that busy these days so it would've been cool if they brought her back considering she played a teenage Ivy on The Batman  :Smile: .

----------


## Confuzzled

Tara Strong rules the television animation industry with such an iron fist!  :Stick Out Tongue:  She has become one of the most prolific voice actors to ever live.

I remember Piera Coppola posting on some _The Batman_ fan forums that I used to lurk a decade back in my teens. Thought it was incredibly sporting of her as she was the only person related to the show to post on the forums.

----------


## Frontier

> Tara Strong rules the television animation industry with such an iron fist!  She has become one of the most prolific voice actors to ever live.
> 
> I remember Piera Coppola posting on some _The Batman_ fan forums that I used to lurk a decade back in my teens. Thought it was incredibly sporting of her as she was the only person related to the show to post on the forums.


Definitely. I was even surprised she wasn't Batgirl in this considering she had reprised Babs for a lot of stuff (games, Super Best Friends Forever, Beware the Batman, TTG!). It's just so odd to see Harley and Ivy voiced by the same person. Then again, Josh Keaton is playing Hal and Barry too  :Stick Out Tongue: .

That was really cool of Piera Coppola. I hope nobody ever gave her too much trouble over how different The Batman version of Ivy was (a teenager, best friends with Batgirl, etc.), because otherwise I thought it was a decent and interesting take and she did a fairly good job with it  :Smile: .

----------


## Confuzzled

> Definitely. I was even surprised she wasn't Batgirl in this considering she had reprised Babs for a lot of stuff (games, Super Best Friends Forever, Beware the Batman, TTG!). It's just so odd to see Harley and Ivy voiced by the same person. Then again, Josh Keaton is playing Hal and Barry too .
> 
> That was really cool of Piera Coppola. I hope nobody ever gave her too much trouble over how different The Batman version of Ivy was (a teenager, best friends with Batgirl, etc.), because otherwise I thought it was a decent and interesting take and she did a fairly good job with it .


The actress voicing Babs in DC Superhero Girls is pretty good too. And if you are going to get a single actor for both Hal and Barry, it might as well be Josh Keaton.  :Smile: 

The forum posters were pretty classy back then. There was the occasional whining about Ivy looking like a "leprechaun" (which really, she was introduced in season 3 of the show. I can't believe people who had stuck on that long were _still_ complaining about the aesthetics). But in regards to Coppola's voice work, they were pretty cool. I too found Teen Pam being Babs's friend to be an interesting dynamic as well. And I loved the design! There was just something so elegant and delicate about the whole look. It was exactly (or a little more than) ten years back though. I remember as it was right after _Batman Begins_ had released. Gosh, how time flies.

----------


## Green Ghost

Cover for issue three:


Also a preview page featuring Harley


via CBR

----------


## Confuzzled

I just realized that each of the solo covers so far have been depicting different aspects of Ivy's rich persona. The Scientist. The Seductress. The Mother. They almost seem like cool Ivy-themed tarot cards.

----------


## MentalManipulator

This art looks so gorgeous!! I'm in heaven…hope the writing is as great!

----------


## Green Ghost

> I just realized that each of the solo covers so far have been depicting different aspects of Ivy's rich persona. The Scientist. The Seductress. The Mother. They almost seem like cool Ivy-themed tarot cards.


You're right, good observation!




> This art looks so gorgeous!! I'm in heaven…hope the writing is as great!


Yeah, me too.

----------


## Green Ghost

The solicits text for #3 sounds very intriguing:



> POISON IVY: CYCLE OF LIFE AND DEATH #3
> 
> Written by Amy Chu, art and cover by Clay Mann.
> 
> As the murder investigation at the lab deepens, a new surprise awaits Poison Ivy in the form of the growing hatched sporelings! As these new lifeforms test the limits of their power, will they soon outgrow the need for their creator?
> 
> 32 pages, $2.99, in stores on March 16.


Also or March, Ivy is on the cover for Harley Quinn #26 and will be in Batman/U.N.C.L.E.:



> BATMAN ‘66 MEETS THE MAN FROM U.N.C.L.E. #4
> Written by JEFF PARKER
> Art by DAVID HAHN and KARL KESEL
> Cover by MICHAEL ALLRED
> On sale MARCH 2 • 32 pg, FC, 4 of 6, $2.99 US • RATED E • DIGITAL FIRST
> T.H.R.U.S.H.’s mysterious new leader puts Batman, Robin, Solo and Kuryakin in the ultimate death trap—a deserted island filled with deadly devices engineered by the likes of Poison Ivy and Scarecrow. Robbed of all of their gadgets, how will our crime-fighting castaways ever make it home alive?


Source

----------


## Green Ghost

Some positive news regarding how Cycle of Life & Death is selling:

According to BleedingCool, the book is doing great in Advance Reorders:




> And this week a new cover from Invader Zim #6 has pushed it past even the Tony Moore cover of The Walking Dead #150. Daredevil #1, The Mighty Thor #1 and Silk #1 seems to have done well enough to get a boost for their #3, and *enough retailers are starting to think that Poison Ivy might very well be a thing*.


It's 6th and the highest DC Title in the Top 25 Advance Reorder Comics.

Also via Amy Chu on Twitter:



> Pharma Bro's been busted, Star Wars is actually good and *Poison Ivy orders are strong*. That's it. I don't need any more gifts this year!


Looking good so far  :Big Grin:

----------


## Confuzzled

Wow that's really amazing to hear!

----------


## Frontier

I was kind of worried about Ivy's series considering DC did "damage control" with the other mini's by packaging them all together, so happy to see that there's a lot of interest from retailers in her mini  :Big Grin: .

----------


## Confuzzled

> I was kind of worried about Ivy's series considering DC did "damage control" with the other mini's by packaging them all together, so happy to see that there's a lot of interest from retailers in her mini .


What happened to the other minis? I know that Deadpool and Katana were combined. Did the other minis get similarly bunched too?

----------


## Frontier

> What happened to the other minis? I know that Dead*shot* and Katana were combined. Did the other minis get similarly bunched too?


Fixed  :Wink: .

Yep, the rest were all combined into one big anthology called "Legends of Tomorrow" after the show. Ivy is the only one who's still a solo act (even though Harley is making a guest appearance)  :Smile: .

----------


## Confuzzled

> Fixed .
> 
> Yep, the rest were all combined into one big anthology called "Legends of Tomorrow" after the show. Ivy is the only one who's still a solo act (even though Harley is making a guest appearance) .


LMAO shame on me for that as I far prefer Floyd to Wade! 

And yikes at the fate of those other minis! Oh well, gotta look at the bright side. Less competition for the Queen of Green.  :Wink:

----------


## DeathFalcon182

> Fixed .
> 
> Yep, the rest were all combined into one big anthology called "Legends of Tomorrow" after the show. Ivy is the only one who's still a solo act (even though Harley is making a guest appearance) .


Actually Swamp Thing is a standalone. Deadshot/Katana is a mini. And rest of other stuff is in Legends of Tomorrow.

----------


## Confuzzled

DC publicly acknowledges the popularity of Poison Ivy





> “It’s a great time to be a DC fan.”
> 
> We say that a lot around here, and it IS a great time to be a fan. But what’s the best time to be a fan? When does it feel like the absolute greatest thing in the world? When as a fan, you’re able to make things happen, and we saw quite a bit of that in 2015.
> 
> *In June, DC Comics announced that in 2016 they’d be publishing a new six-issue Poison Ivy miniseries by Amy Chu and Clay Mann. Ivy’s a great character and has long been a favorite among readers, but support for Ms. Isley has risen to unprecedented new levels recently, particularly on social media. Just check out the #PoisonIvyLeague hashtag on Twitter if you don’t believe us. Or heck, have you looked at the #DCYou hashtag lately? Nearly half of what appears in it is Poison Ivy-related. Fans love the character, and you’d better believe that’s one of the reasons Poison Ivy will be getting her own comic next year.*


Can't believe DC is finally talking about Lady Ivy's appeal and strength as a character after years of generally overlooking her. Da thrills.  :Big Grin:

----------


## RedQueen

Cool! Maybe if it's successful enough DC will make it an ongoing or maybe give her a permanent position in a team book.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Cool! Maybe if it's successful enough DC will make it an ongoing or maybe give her a permanent position in a team book.


I hope the latter happens even if her mini has underwhelming sales. I've been wanting to have her on Suicide Squad again even before the Nu52. So it was weird seeing her on BoP and Harley on the Squad instead. Not that I didn't enjoy her Birds stint, but I kind of expected it to turn out something like the way it eventually did. 

Of course, the best case scenario is definitely her mini selling so well that it is extended into an ongoing, and help inspire more frequent appearances for Ivy in other media, including hopefully a role in the DC cinematic universe.

----------


## Starchild

The support is strong. Nice! I can pat myself on the back, because I'm one of the many people who pre-ordered. Based on that, I'm pretty confident that Poison Ivy will indeed get an ongoing series. She might be the only success story out of all the minis this year. I don't want to derail this thread, but when I look at Ivy and Harley's success, I often wish that Killer Frost has the same opportunity. She has potential to have mass appeal, I think.



pin_493284965412210124.jpg


I'm in a mood to buy plants for my apartment now...

----------


## Old Man Ollie 1962

Why do I think Kristen Stewart could pull off Pamela Isley?
c2a6cabf9ac8057d8fa96bd0cf41fe33.jpg

----------


## darkseidpwns

> Why do I think Kristen Stewart could pull off Pamela Isley?
> c2a6cabf9ac8057d8fa96bd0cf41fe33.jpg


Too young no? I dont see her seducing Batfleck.

----------


## Old Man Ollie 1962

> Too young no? I dont see her seducing Batfleck.


You have a point indeed. Perhaps Poison Ivy: Year One?

----------


## darkseidpwns

> You have a point indeed. Perhaps Poison Ivy: Year One?


Possible,I could see her working if they went "The Batman" tv show route with her being a Babs adversary more so than a Batman one.

----------


## PwrdOn

Stewart isn't really expressive enough to play Ivy, or anyone else for that matter.  My preferred casting is still Jessica Chastain, I'd like to see her in any kind of superhero flick really.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> Stewart isn't really expressive enough to play Ivy, or anyone else for that matter.  My preferred casting is still Jessica Chastain, I'd like to see her in any kind of superhero flick really.


Yes! Jessica Chastain is my number one pick for Ivy…please no to Stewart….

----------


## nepenthes

Must be a woman who can truly dominate and command and make you feel small. 

There's a hundred great actors who maybe look part and would probably sell tickets and inspire a wave of fun/sexy cosplay outfits, but if they're not on the level when it comes to inspiring genuine awe and fear and raw elemental beauty, then they'll just look like a pissed-off climate-alarmist that's picked herself out of a shrub.    

Streep back in the day would've been amazing - if we're talking against Batfleck though then there's only one real contender https://www.facebook.com/groups/520769631409842/

----------


## LoneNecromancer

I'm vaguely certain the  first Batfleck film will be with Jason and the Joker, so we won't really see any more Batrogues get casted for a while.

Would be nice to see Ivy -and Freeze- done justice after Batman & Robin, though. Plus, I think you have to use some of Bruce's heaviest hitters after he's already gone up against Superman.




> Why do I think Kristen Stewart could pull off Pamela Isley?


Probably but too young when you put her against Affleck and Leto. Then again Robbie is pretty young too. I probably would've picked someone like Charlize Theron off the top off my head.




> Stewart isn't really expressive enough to play Ivy, or anyone else for that matter.


She has made movies beyond Twilight, you know.

----------


## Confuzzled

I think if they were to introduce Ivy in these films, it would probably be in the Suicide Squad franchise, instead of the main Batman franchise.

The question then is, do you cast an actress who is closer in age to Affleck/Leto or Robbie?

----------


## LoneNecromancer

> I think if they were to introduce Ivy in these films, it would probably be in the Suicide Squad franchise, instead of the main Batman franchise.
> 
> The question then is, do you cast an actress who is closer in age to Affleck/Leto or Robbie?


Point.  But then again, Suicide Squad should have plenty characters around you can kill off, because it's Suicide Squad, and they already have a fair few who'll definitely survive.

----------


## Project Initiative Cascada

> Why do I think Kristen Stewart could pull off Pamela Isley?
> c2a6cabf9ac8057d8fa96bd0cf41fe33.jpg


Hmmm. I really like Stewart (She was great in Clouds of Sils Maria!) but I am not sure if I can see her in a villainous role since she's way too likeable. Though I do think she would play off well with Robbie.




> I think if they were to introduce Ivy in these films, it would probably be in the Suicide Squad franchise, instead of the main Batman franchise.
> 
> The question then is, do you cast an actress who is closer in age to Affleck/Leto or Robbie?


Yes please! I would kill to see Ivy/Harley on live action screen. I just wish Ivy had more of a role in the Suicide Squad from the comics. They took her off way too early. She would make a great member to interact with Harley, if they ever make a second Suicide Squad film.

----------


## Starchild

Milla Jovovich is my top pick for Poison Ivy.

----------


## Green Ghost

Here's the Poison Ivy stuff from DC's April 2016 Solicits:




> *POISON IVY: CYCLE OF LIFE AND DEATH #4*
> 
> Written by AMY CHU
> Art and cover by CLAY MANN
> On sale APRIL 20  32 pg, FC, 4 of 6, $2.99 US  RATED T
> Catwoman and Poison Ivyreunited! As the body count rises at the Gotham Botanical Gardens labs, Ivy needs Selinas help to solve the puzzle...a mystery that seems to involve Ivys blossoming children!





> *BATMAN: ARKHAM KNIGHT  HARLEY QUINN, THE JOKER AND POISON IVY ACTION FIGURES*
> 
> Three of the Dark Knight's greatest foes are back in new action figures based on their appearances in the best-selling Arkham Knight videogame!
> Each comes with character-specific accessories.
> $28.00 US Each
> On sale AUGUST 2016 * Allocations May Occur
> EACH FIGURE SOLD SEPARATELY
> 1. HARLEY QUINN  6.63
> 2. THE JOKER  6.88
> 3. POISON IVY  6.88





> *BATMAN/TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES #5*
> 
> Written by JAMES TYNION IV
> Art and cover by FREDDIE E. WILLIAMS II
> 1:50 Variant cover by KEVIN EASTMAN
> On sale APRIL 13  32 pg, FC, 5 of 6, $3.99 US  RATED T
> Retailers: This issue will ship with two covers. Please see the order form for details.
> While Shredder enters an uneasy alliance with a deadly new partner, Casey Jones is arrested by the GCPD. At the same time, a crisis breaks out at Arkham Asylum, which is bound to keep both Batman and the Turtles busy. Meanwhile, a certain young resident of Wayne Manor returns home to find a new, green occupant in his room. Co-published with IDW.
> BATMAN and all related characters and elements are  and © DC Comics. © 2015 Viacom International Inc. All Rights Reserved. TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES, and all related titles, logos and characters are trademarks of Viacom International Inc. Based on characters created by Peter Laird and Kevin Eastman.

----------


## PwrdOn

This Ivy is beyond adorable.

----------


## Dr. Cheesesteak

> Too young no? I dont see her seducing Batfleck.


Since when were 20-something women unable to seduce 30-something men?

Besides, Stewart can pass for early 30s.

----------


## Confuzzled

I think KStew looks younger than her age. 

Alicia Vikander is a terrific performer too and I think will really be able to hold her own against Margot Robbie and Viola Davis (I'd prefer if Ivy appears in Suicide Squad 2 and beyond while the new Batman movies flesh out Batfamily centric tales like _Under the Red Hood_ and _Son of Batman_).

----------


## MentalManipulator

> This Ivy is beyond adorable.


Cool to see in this episode a hint at her disdain for other peoplebut still adorable indeed.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Cool to see in this episode a hint at her disdain for other people…but still adorable indeed.


Yes, I think it is shaping up to be an awesomely balanced personality for Ivy considering the tone and audience the series is going for.  :Smile: 

And is her flower sidekick supposed to be based on Flowey from Undertale? LMAO.

----------


## Deadly Garden

Kristen Stewart? Please god no...NO. Otherwise we may end up with the disaster that became "Jennifer Lawrence" action hero. Lawrence's turns as Katniss and her utterly laughable portrayal of Mystique in the X-films are unforgivable. While I do think Stewart is a bit more versatile than Lawrence both tend to deliver their lines with all the interest and enthusiasm of a mall clerk being told to - ACT TOUGH - NOW ACT SAD! I say cast outside the box. Don't get caught up in Hollywood "it" girls or just beautiful women. Uma Thurman was an inspired choice for Poison Ivy but it was a classic case of right character/wrong film. (Clooney suffered the same fate.)

----------


## PwrdOn

> Kristen Stewart? Please god no...NO. Otherwise we may end up with the disaster that became "Jennifer Lawrence" action hero. Lawrence's turns as Katniss and her utterly laughable portrayal of Mystique in the X-films are unforgivable. While I do think Stewart is a bit more versatile than Lawrence both tend to deliver their lines with all the interest and enthusiasm of a mall clerk being told to - ACT TOUGH - NOW ACT SAD! I say cast outside the box. Don't get caught up in Hollywood "it" girls or just beautiful women. Uma Thurman was an inspired choice for Poison Ivy but it was a classic case of right character/wrong film. (Clooney suffered the same fate.)


I still say Jessica Chastain is the best choice for the role.  She has the right look, even having natural red hair and green eyes, has plenty of acting chops and great range, and perhaps most importantly, has an undeniable star quality about her that a lot of her peers lack.  Whether she would be right for this particular role is going to depend on how the character is presented of course, but she'd be a perfect fit if they are going for a more sympathetic take on Ivy rather than the campy, flamboyant Uma Thurman portrayal.  And if they did manage to lure someone with that level of name recognition for the role, they could even try giving Ivy her own solo film instead of just cramming her in the Suicide Squad sequel.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I still say Jessica Chastain is the best choice for the role.  She has the right look, even having natural red hair and green eyes, has plenty of acting chops and great range, and perhaps most importantly, has an undeniable star quality about her that a lot of her peers lack.  Whether she would be right for this particular role is going to depend on how the character is presented of course, but she'd be a perfect fit if they are going for a more sympathetic take on Ivy rather than the campy, flamboyant Uma Thurman portrayal.  And if they did manage to lure someone with that level of name recognition for the role, they could even try giving Ivy her own solo film instead of just cramming her in the Suicide Squad sequel.


They won't give Ivy a solo even if Jessica Chastain is playing her. I mean, her fans had to literally hijack DC's social media campaigns to just earn a mini comic! At best, they may let her be a co-lead in a "Thelma & Louise-esque" odd duo caper with Harley.

I don't necessarily see her being a part of the Suicide Squad sequel as her being "crammed" into the franchise. Let's remember that Ivy was one of the earliest staples of the franchise when John Ostrander revamped it. She was a Squad member decades before Harley. I see her as a logical fit for the team, especially when you consider that close to 80-85% of the current movie roster will get wiped out in the first film itself. Waller will need to recruit new heavyweights, and Poison Ivy is one of the best there is.

----------


## PwrdOn

> They won't give Ivy a solo even if Jessica Chastain is playing her. I mean, her fans had to literally hijack DC's social media campaigns to just earn a mini comic! At best, they may let her be a co-lead in a "Thelma & Louise-esque" odd duo caper with Harley.
> 
> I don't necessarily see her being a part of the Suicide Squad sequel as her being "crammed" into the franchise. Let's remember that Ivy was one of the earliest staples of the franchise when John Ostrander revamped it. She was a Squad member decades before Harley. I see her as a logical fit for the team, especially when you consider that close to 80-85% of the current movie roster will get wiped out in the first film itself. Waller will need to recruit new heavyweights, and Poison Ivy is one of the best there is.


It is wishful thinking to be sure, but that's why this is an internet forum and not a Warner Bros. boardroom.  Ideally I see this as an opportunity for DC to differentiate itself from Marvel by making some more thoughtful and complex films rather than just mindless popcorn flicks.  A Poison Ivy film could be quite provocative, combining feminism, sexuality, and environmentalism as opposed to the standard explosion-based bro out.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> They won't give Ivy a solo even if Jessica Chastain is playing her. I mean, her fans had to literally hijack DC's social media campaigns to just earn a mini comic! At best, they may let her be a co-lead in a "Thelma & Louise-esque" odd duo caper with Harley.
> 
> I don't necessarily see her being a part of the Suicide Squad sequel as her being "crammed" into the franchise. Let's remember that Ivy was one of the earliest staples of the franchise when John Ostrander revamped it. She was a Squad member decades before Harley. I see her as a logical fit for the team, especially when you consider that close to 80-85% of the current movie roster will get wiped out in the first film itself. Waller will need to recruit new heavyweights, and Poison Ivy is one of the best there is.


I agreeplus her powers won't feel out of place since we already have powerful characters in this roster like Diablo and Enchantress. I also support Jessica Chastainnot only is she as beautiful as Margot Robbie but she's smarter (at least she looks smarter) and is a way better actress so their dynamics would reflect well other incarnations where Ivy is the more grounded and mature one.

----------


## Confuzzled

Comic Alliance's interview with Amy Chu over her views on Ivy and how the mini came to be

Most quotable quote.




> _Ivy’s got all these great powers, along with both intellect and character complexity — it’s such a waste for someone like her to be a minor character for so long. So I just gave her the platform she deserves — her own place in Gotham._

----------


## Frontier

I wouldn't call being one of Batman's most iconic rogues and one of the most iconic female Supervillains makes her a "minor character," though I could see how you could say that since Ivy hasn't really had any big or very memorable stories in the New 52. At least just on her own.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I wouldn't call being one of Batman's most iconic rogues and one of the most iconic female Supervillains makes her a "minor character," though I could see how you could say that since Ivy hasn't really had any big or very memorable stories in the New 52. At least just on her own.


"Minor" may not have been the correct word but what I think she meant is that Ivy has the appeal and complexity to sustain a far bigger role in the DCU than was granted to her previously. That lead in question described her as a "Harley Quinn supporting character". So Chu was saying that Poison Ivy is entirely capable of being her own character.

----------


## juan678



----------


## Confuzzled

^Hehe, though I hope Ron is under the influence of Ivy's love potion otherwise that kind of behavior warrants a Howler everyday for the rest of his life from Mama Weasley.

----------


## Unfinishedsentenc

> *Tara Strong* rules the television animation industry with such an iron fist!  She has become one of the most prolific voice actors to ever live.
> 
> I remember Piera Coppola posting on some _The Batman_ fan forums that I used to lurk a decade back in my teens. Thought it was incredibly sporting of her as she was the only person related to the show to post on the forums.


She's great, yes, but I think she steals way too many parts that would be better fitted for others. Like Harley Quinn. I cannot describe the sheer frustration and overwhelming sense of doom I feel whenever I hear her shrill, overplayed rendition of Quinn's voice. It's way too much. And worse, it sounds exactly like Timmy Turner. Like . . . exactly. In Arkham Knight? Exactly like Lollipop Chainsaw girl. 

Now having confidence in yourself is never a bad thing, but somethings you simply aren't made for. Unfortunately, in regards to the increasing abundance of her work in recent years, I fear we might come to a time where every single female character in the DC Universe . . .  is voiced by Tara Strong.

----------


## Confuzzled

> She's great, yes, but I think she steals way too many parts that would be better fitted for others. Like Harley Quinn. I cannot describe the sheer frustration and overwhelming sense of doom I feel whenever I hear her shrill, overplayed rendition of Quinn's voice. It's way too much. And worse, it sounds exactly like Timmy Turner. Like . . . exactly. In Arkham Knight? Exactly like Lollipop Chainsaw girl. 
> 
> Now having confidence in yourself is never a bad thing, but somethings you simply aren't made for. Unfortunately, in regards to the increasing abundance of her work in recent years, I fear we might come to a time where every single female character in the DC Universe . . .  is voiced by Tara Strong.


The same actor or actress voicing multiple characters on the same film/show/video/game or different films/shows/videos/games produced by the same company does not hold true just for Tara Strong and DC/WB. It has been a common practice in the animation industry for decades. Folks like Frank Welker voice about a million different characters, sometimes in the same film.

----------


## Confuzzled

_Batman: The Animated Series_ "Pretty Poison" episode poster by George Caltsoudas

----------


## Unfinishedsentenc

> The same actor or actress voicing multiple characters on the same film/show/video/game or different films/shows/videos/games produced by the same company does not hold true just for Tara Strong and DC/WB. It has been a common practice in the animation industry for decades. Folks like Frank Welker voice about a million different characters, sometimes in the same film.


Yeah, I know. Just don't like her voicing literally everyone she can in the DC Universe. It probably _is_ the industry, maybe they just need to broaden their horizons and scope out new talent, I don't know.

----------


## Frontier

> Yeah, I know. Just don't like her voicing literally everyone she can in the DC Universe. It probably _is_ the industry, maybe they just need to broaden their horizons and scope out new talent, I don't know.


I think the only reason she's voicing all the female Bat Rogues in DC Super Hero Girls is because of budget, probably, not that she's trying to voice everybody she can in the DC Universe. Heck, her biggest DC role was originally voicing Batgirl, but she's not even reprising Babs here. 

Though I was a little surprised they didn't have Grey DeLisle reprise Catwoman from the Arkham games when she's also playing Wonder Woman. Then again, her Catwoman voice is probably too sultry for the target audience  :Stick Out Tongue: .

----------


## TheSupernaut

What's Pam's sexual orientation, anyways?

----------


## Frontier

> What's Pam's sexual orientation, anyways?


Last I checked she's still Bisexual, just like Selina and Harley  :Stick Out Tongue: .

----------


## Dr. Cheesesteak

> Last I checked she's still Bisexual, just like Selina and Harley .


well, we all knew plenty of girls went/go through those "college phases", but it seems now it should go w/o saying a girl is (at "least") bisexual...   :Stick Out Tongue: 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-straight.html

----------


## Confuzzled

> well, we all knew plenty of girls went/go through those "college phases", but it seems now it should go w/o saying a girl is (at "least") bisexual...  
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-straight.html


Corresponds with what my girlfriend says.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## TheSupernaut

I would say she probably has the highest rating on the Kinsey Scale between those 3, only because she's really the only one without a major male love interest.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I would say she probably has the highest rating on the Kinsey Scale between those 3, only because she's really the only one without a major male love interest.


Pre-New 52 she was into Jason Woodrue, Batman, Deadshot and Hush. That's double the men Harley or Selina have been shown to have the hots for.

Also, she's way more misanthropic than those two women, which is the main reason why she has formed genuine bonds with such few individuals, be it men _or_ women.

----------


## TheSupernaut

> Pre-New 52 she was into Jason Woodrue, Batman, Deadshot and Hush. That's double the men Harley or Selina have been shown to have the hots for.
> 
> Also, she's way more misanthropic than those two women, which is the main reason why she has formed genuine bonds with such few individuals, be it men _or_ women.


You're really on to something.

----------


## Frontier

> Pre-New 52 she was into Jason Woodrue, Batman, Deadshot and Hush. That's double the men Harley or Selina have been shown to have the hots for.
> 
> Also, she's way more misanthropic than those two women, which is the main reason why she has formed genuine bonds with such few individuals, be it men _or_ women.


And in one of the Justice League United issues she was in, there was a mention of her apparently saying in her sleep (she'd been knocked out) something about Batman that was a surprise to Mera because she thought Ivy hated Bats. Take from that what you will  :Wink: .

----------


## Green Ghost

The thing with Harley is still only hinted in the Harley Quinn book (which is probably as far from canon as you can get right now) and they are playing with the "did they?" Harley & Ivy was mostly a sisterhood and deep friendship. Ivy wants to protect her, because Harley needs protection, just like the plant world or the orphans.

And not beeing interested in a man doesn't actually mean she's a lesbian (and like Confuzzled said, she was clearly interested in men pre-New52). 

It would make sense if Ivy was a-sexual. She's half plant and human sexuality could be beneath/beyond her. She uses it for her advantage, but is not really interested/doesn't need it.

----------


## darkseidpwns

> Pre-New 52 she was into Jason Woodrue, Batman, Deadshot and Hush. That's double the men Harley or Selina have been shown to have the hots for.
> 
> Also, she's way more misanthropic than those two women, which is the main reason why she has formed genuine bonds with such few individuals, be it men _or_ women.


Deadshot? from the Ostrander SS run? I dont recall anything too serious.

----------


## Nite-Wing

I thought she had a minor romance with Count Vertigo in suicide squad
Other than that I don't think she was ever with deadshot 

Poison Ivy is bi though but she would be a low number on the kinsey scale since her only real attraction to the opposite sex has been Harley

----------


## batnbreakfast

> I thought she had a minor romance with Count Vertigo in suicide squad
> Other than that I don't think she was ever with deadshot 
> 
> Poison Ivy is bi though but she would be a low number on the kinsey scale since her only real attraction to the opposite sex has been Harley


Could you give me the issue number or trade (Count Vertigo, SuicideSquad), please?

----------


## Nite-Wing

> Could you give me the issue number or trade (Count Vertigo, SuicideSquad), please?


its late into the Ostrander run and the entirety of the OG Suicide Squad run isn't collected 
Issues 40-47 should cover it

----------


## batnbreakfast

> its late into the Ostrander run and the entirety of the OG Suicide Squad run isn't collected 
> Issues 40-47 should cover it


Thank you! DC is rereleasing the Ostrander run. Currently Vol. 2, I think. Planning to get that.

----------


## Unfinishedsentenc

Always heartbreaking for me when, in whatever story, they mention that she's barren. It brings her love for plants and subsequent terms of endearment for them ("my babies") to much deeper and emotionally tragic light. And it lends well to her hatred of men, and, most importantly, her exclusively mother-like nature towards vegetation. 

It makes me long for a really good Diana v.s Ivy arc. Would love to see those very similar, yet very different, ideologies clash and bounce off each other.

----------


## PwrdOn

> Always heartbreaking for me when, in whatever story, they mention that she's barren. It brings her love for plants and subsequent terms of endearment for them ("my babies") to much deeper and emotionally tragic light. And it lends well to her hatred of men, and, most importantly, her exclusively mother-like nature towards vegetation. 
> 
> It makes me long for a really good Diana v.s Ivy arc. Would love to see those very similar, yet very different, ideologies clash and bounce off each other.


I was thinking of stories where the two had interacted and this was all I came up with.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Always heartbreaking for me when, in whatever story, they mention that she's barren. It brings her love for plants and subsequent terms of endearment for them ("my babies") to much deeper and emotionally tragic light. And it lends well to her hatred of men, and, most importantly, her exclusively mother-like nature towards vegetation. 
> 
> *It makes me long for a really good Diana v.s Ivy arc. Would love to see those very similar, yet very different, ideologies clash and bounce off each other.*


Am I wrong or was the BTAS episode "House & Garden" the first to make strong insinuations that Ivy was barren hence that was fuelling her maternal instincts towards her plants? I think No Man's Land ran with that concept and expanded it into a bit more. I also agree with a previous poster who said that the dynamics between Harley/Ivy were more interesting when Ivy viewed Harley as vulnerable and in need of protection, like the plants and orphans, instead of the *wink, wink, nudge, nudge* aspect.

As for Diana vs. Ivy, I remember an Alex Ross drawn story (I cannot recollect the name of the title nor who the writer was now), but the confrontation was pretty sub-par. And while not a "vs." story, Ivy teamed up with Diana and the Amazons in a Sensational Comics issue some months back which was a good read.

----------


## PwrdOn

It does seem that whenever Ivy is matched up against a female adversary, the implication of the story is that the heroine is a real woman who can stand on her own while Ivy is a coward that relies on men to do all the heavy lifting for her.  While it would be interesting to see her interact with the wider DCU, she needs to have more stories that focus on her own narrative instead of advancing those of other characters.

----------


## Green Ghost

Guys, awesome news: Poison Ivy #1 is officially *SOLD OUT* and will get a *SECOND PRINTING*!

Official announcement from DC:




> On January 20th, DC Entertainment debuted of one of Gotham's greatest villains in her own series for the first timePoison Ivy!
> 
> Just two weeks later, were pleased to announce that POISON IVY: CYCLE OF LIFE AND DEATH #1, written by Amy Chu with artwork by Clay Mann, Seth Mann and Ulises Arreola, has sold out! But if you havent had a chance to read this inaugural issue yet, dont worry! A second printing will land in stores on March 2nd, featuring a cover that ups the chlorophyll of Clay Mann and Laura Martins original cover with new vibrant green colors!
> 
> Poison Ivy is super sexy, super smart, like Lex Luthor smart, and she could probably take over Gotham if she wanted, says Chu.
> 
> Looks like Ivys on her way!
> 
> Congratulations to all!

----------


## John Ossie

Cool.  If the sales keep up maybe there'll be an ongoing?...Long shot I know but you never know  :Smile:

----------


## Green Ghost

> Always heartbreaking for me when, in whatever story, they mention that she's barren. It brings her love for plants and subsequent terms of endearment for them ("my babies") to much deeper and emotionally tragic light. And it lends well to her hatred of men, and, most importantly, her exclusively mother-like nature towards vegetation.





> Am I wrong or was the BTAS episode "House & Garden" the first to make strong insinuations that Ivy was barren hence that was fuelling her maternal instincts towards her plants? I think No Man's Land ran with that concept and expanded it into a bit more. I also agree with a previous poster who said that the dynamics between Harley/Ivy were more interesting when Ivy viewed Harley as vulnerable and in need of protection, like the plants and orphans, instead of the *wink, wink, nudge, nudge* aspect.


It seems like, while not mentioning barren, Cycle of Life & Death is touching upon this topic on a slightely diffrent level. Ivy feeling lonely so she is trying to create human/plant hybrids just like herself so she has somebody to care about and relate to. It is an interesting angle with Ivy wanting to care about a human life but it is hard because she's to disconnected to humans and their behavior.




> As for Diana vs. Ivy, I remember an Alex Ross drawn story (I cannot recollect the name of the title nor who the writer was now), but the confrontation was pretty sub-par. And while not a "vs." story, Ivy teamed up with Diana and the Amazons in a Sensational Comics issue some months back which was a good read.


The Alex Ross story was "Justice" and the Sensational Comics story was really great! It was #12 (in print) for anyone who's interested to check it out.

----------


## Thirteen

> I thought she had a minor romance with Count Vertigo in suicide squad


I wouldn't quite call it a romance...shades of Kilgrave in Jessica Jones actually ... and she got her comeuppance before the end of that Volume of the Squad as well.   
Summarized a bit here
http://grimkun10.50megs.com/ivy1.htm

----------


## PwrdOn

Not terribly relevant to this thread, but does anyone here remember Black Scorpion, the campy, low budget, cheesecake-laden superheroine series that had a brief run on the Sci-Fi channel in the early 2000s?  One of the villains had a pair of henchgirls that seemed patterned off a certain redheaded plant goddess.

They were even named Violet and Lily like Ivy's assistants in the TAS episode, though this might just be a coincidence rather than a deliberate take.  Curiously enough, the titular heroine straight up murders both of them at the end of the episode even though they had already been subdued and were begging for mercy.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Guys, awesome news: Poison Ivy #1 is officially *SOLD OUT* and will get a *SECOND PRINTING*!
> 
> Official announcement from DC:


That's really superb. This is the first I'm hearing of a _mini-series_ issue going to second printing.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Cool.  If the sales keep up maybe there'll be an ongoing?...Long shot I know but you never know


The writer Amy Chu said that if the sales were strong then DC may very well turn it into an ongoing. Kind of a vote with your $$ kind of thing. 




> It seems like, while not mentioning barren, Cycle of Life & Death is touching upon this topic on a slightely diffrent level. Ivy feeling lonely so she is trying to create human/plant hybrids just like herself so she has somebody to care about and relate to. It is an interesting angle with Ivy wanting to care about a human life but it is hard because she's to disconnected to humans and their behavior.
> 
> The Alex Ross story was "Justice" and the Sensational Comics story was really great! It was #12 (in print) for anyone who's interested to check it out.


Yeah, I'm really interested in that aspect of _Cycle of Life and Death_ as well. Cue more Ivy comparisons to _Frozen_'s Elsa (creating life from elements they can control).  :Stick Out Tongue: 

Ah yeah, thanks for naming that story.

----------


## PwrdOn

The miniseries was no doubt always intended to be a sort of trial run to gauge interest for an ongoing, and given the success of the first issue and accounting for lead time, I'd be willing to bet she's already been penciled in for her own book with the upcoming relaunch.  And there's no reason that this series won't be a huge seller, Ivy has arguably always been just as popular as Harley and her fans aren't yet getting burnt out from overexposure.  DC should also consider putting together a compilation of older Ivy material to capitalize on the hype, since her stories are scattered all over the place and collecting them in one place would give new fans a nice intro to the character.

----------


## Confuzzled

> The miniseries was no doubt always intended to be a sort of trial run to gauge interest for an ongoing, and given the success of the first issue and accounting for lead time, I'd be willing to bet she's already been penciled in for her own book with the upcoming relaunch.  And there's no reason that this series won't be a huge seller, Ivy has arguably always been just as popular as Harley and her fans aren't yet getting burnt out from overexposure.  *DC should also consider putting together a compilation of older Ivy material to capitalize on the hype, since her stories are scattered all over the place and collecting them in one place would give new fans a nice intro to the character.*


This. Her upcoming Golden Jubilee in June also provides the perfect opportunity for DC to release an "Essential Poison Ivy".

----------


## Unfinishedsentenc

> This. Her upcoming Golden Jubilee in June also provides the perfect opportunity for DC to release an "Essential Poison Ivy".


They've actually been doing that with a lot of other Batman villains (Two-Face, Joker, even Riddler). The collections are called "Batman: Arkham" and compile the best of the classics first, and then include the most favored recent updates of the characters too. Nice little intros to new readers. Would like to see an Ivy one as well. Problem is though, I think a lot of the rogues' best stories have yet to come, so characters like Harley (who's best stories consist within her animated appearances) or Mad Hatter (who has like only one or two really good arcs) will probably get left out. Ivy has quite a few though, I'm pretty sure.

----------


## Confuzzled

> They've actually been doing that with a lot of other Batman villains (Two-Face, Joker, even Riddler). The collections are called "Batman: Arkham" and compile the best of the classics first, and then include the most favored recent updates of the characters too. Nice little intros to new readers. Would like to see an Ivy one as well. Problem is though, I think a lot of the rogues' best stories have yet to come, so characters like Harley (who's best stories consist within her animated appearances) or Mad Hatter (who has like only one or two really good arcs) will probably get left out. *Ivy has quite a few though, I'm pretty sure.*


Yup, she does. There's a Poison Ivy reading essentials list on this page. Definitely more quality material than many other Rogues.

----------


## PwrdOn

One story I really enjoy is the World's Finest Three team up between Superboy and Robin.  Ivy isn't the main focus of the story but she's certainly having tons of fun hamming it up in the familiar manipulative and emasculating role, and really shows off her trademark arrogance and bravado here despite being seriously overmatched by her opponents from a realistic standpoint.

----------


## Green Ghost

Poison Ivy #1 landed on #62 in Top 100 Comics for January. This doesn't sound that great at first, but it was another hard month for DC in general with only one DC title in the top 20, 3 in top 30 and 11 in top 50. The rest was dominated by Marvel with a big thanks to their Star Wars comics again.

But on to the positive stuff: Poison Ivy was #16 in DC titles and beat the other new #1s Swamp Thing & Legends of Wonder Woman. And let's not forget that it SOLD OUT, so it couldn't climb any higher than that. I think retailers weren't sure what to make out of the title in the beginning, especially with a rather unknown creative team, so orders were caution and print run wasn't that high. 

The second printing shows that DC noticed and I thing it will give them and Comic Shops more confidence in the character.

Issue 2 will be very important now, so I hope everybody is buying as many issues as they can effort  :Wink:

----------


## RoyImpulse

> Poison Ivy #1 landed on #62 in Top 100 Comics for January. This doesn't sound that great at first, but it was another hard month for DC in general with only one DC title in the top 20, 3 in top 30 and 11 in top 50. The rest was dominated by Marvel with a big thanks to their Star Wars comics again.
> 
> But on to the positive stuff: Poison Ivy was #16 in DC titles and beat the other new #1s Swamp Thing & Legends of Wonder Woman. And let's not forget that it SOLD OUT, so it couldn't climb any higher than that. I think retailers weren't sure what to make out of the title in the beginning, especially with a rather unknown creative team, so orders were caution and print run wasn't that high. 
> 
> The second printing shows that DC noticed and I thing it will give them and Comic Shops more confidence in the character.
> 
> Issue 2 will be very important now, so I hope everybody is buying as many issues as they can effort


It was definitely a good start. #2 would normally have a drop in sales, but with the sell out, who knows what it will do. It'll be interesting to see how high the second printing numbers are this month.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Poison Ivy #1 landed on #62 in Top 100 Comics for January. This doesn't sound that great at first, but it was another hard month for DC in general with only one DC title in the top 20, 3 in top 30 and 11 in top 50. The rest was dominated by Marvel with a big thanks to their Star Wars comics again.
> 
> But on to the positive stuff: Poison Ivy was #16 in DC titles and beat the other new #1s Swamp Thing & Legends of Wonder Woman. And let's not forget that it SOLD OUT, so it couldn't climb any higher than that. I think retailers weren't sure what to make out of the title in the beginning, especially with a rather unknown creative team, so orders were caution and print run wasn't that high. 
> 
> The second printing shows that DC noticed and I thing it will give them and Comic Shops more confidence in the character.
> 
> Issue 2 will be very important now, so I hope everybody is buying as many issues as they can effort


Also we have to note that this is a mini-series, which have been notoriously difficult at becoming smashes unless they star Batman or tied in to a massive event like Secret Wars. This probably added to the reluctance of LCS's to stock more of #1.

What's really interesting is that Ivy beat Swamp Thing, despite the latter being a character who's had his own critically acclaimed solos over decades and has been given more exposure in the comics. Not to mention is being penned by a legend like Len Wein while Ivy has a relatively unknown writer in Amy Chu. That's a pretty huge feat.

----------


## PwrdOn

Miniseries like this never really light the sales charts on fire and I'm guessing they set the bar pretty low for this one, just testing whether the character has enough popularity to stay above cancellation range.  DC in general really just needs to get it together though, they haven't been able to get anything to stick and at this point they can't seem to sell anything other than Bat books, which this one sort of is I suppose.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Miniseries like this never really light the sales charts on fire and I'm guessing they set the bar pretty low for this one, just testing whether the character has enough popularity to stay above cancellation range.  DC in general really just needs to get it together though, they haven't been able to get anything to stick and at this point they can't seem to sell anything other than Bat books, which this one sort of is I suppose.


Yeah again, for this sort of book to go into second print at all and for this particular title and writer to beat _Swamp Thing_ and Len Wein are pretty impressive achievements. The sales are even more respectable for a DC mini especially at this moment when Marvel has a huge advantage with their Star Wars titles, Secret Wars events, relaunched series and double shipping. It really speaks to the appeal of the character.

----------


## PwrdOn

Cool little moment from Tec 694, Ivy forgoing her usual tactics and going all Kung Fu Pam on Mr. PrepTimeGodMode himself.  One of these days it would be interesting to see DC let her win one of these.

----------


## Confuzzled

Ivy got two shoutouts in L.A. Times's article on the DC Superhero Girls line, including in the opening paragraph where she is one of only three DC ladies mentioned:




> _Shortly after she took over DC Comics six years ago, Diane Nelson noticed a glaring problem at the company owned by film and TV studio Warner Bros.
> 
> DC's vast library boasted some of the most popular female superheroes and super villains in the industry dating back to the 1940s — including Amazon princess Wonder Woman, Kryptonian heroine Supergirl and Batman nemesis Poison Ivy. But comic book characters had been targeted almost exclusively at boys and men._


Nice to see DC embracing Poison Ivy as one of their legends.




> _Executives took pains to ensure they remained true the graphic novels, eschewing the pinks, teals and pastel hues typical of most girls toys. Cumbersome dresses were out. A pink jumpsuit in an early version of Catwoman didn't pass muster. Neither did a necklace for Wonder Woman or high heels for Poison Ivy, said Tanya Missad, director of consumer insights for Mattel.
> 
> "She has to look strong and cute," Missad said. "But first and foremost she has to be a superhero."_

----------


## Confuzzled

Poison Ivy, Teen Superhero?

----------


## TsukiSentinel

If they're trying to turn her into a superhero, it's a bad idea. The only people who should view Poison Ivy as a good person, are herself, and the environmentalists.

----------


## Agent Z

> If they're trying to turn her into a superhero, it's a bad idea. The only people who should view Poison Ivy as a good person, are herself, and the environmentalists.


How is it a bad idea? it's not like Bruce is going to run out of villains.

----------


## Agent Z

> If they're trying to turn her into a superhero, it's a bad idea. The only people who should view Poison Ivy as a good person, are herself, and the environmentalists.


How is it a bad idea? it's not like Bruce is going to run out of villains.

----------


## Confuzzled

At the most she will be an anti-heroine. _DC Superhero Girls_ is an exception where they are trying to portray her as an Elsa-type because she is the DC lady who best fits that character (introvert, beautiful, elegant, incredibly powerful, often misunderstood and has a sisterly dynamic with a goofier and lighter female character).

----------


## PwrdOn

Let it grow, let it grow, stop cutting down rainforests bro....

----------


## TsukiSentinel

> How is it a bad idea? it's not like Bruce is going to run out of villains.


Because that's not who Poison Ivy is. Poison Ivy is someone who loves nature, and this obsession has driven her to misanthropy.

Turning her into a superhero would drastically change her character to the point where she's unrecognizable.




> At the most she will be an anti-heroine. _DC Superhero Girls_ is an exception where they are trying to portray her as an Elsa-type because she is the DC lady who best fits that character (introvert, beautiful, elegant, incredibly powerful, often misunderstood and has a sisterly dynamic with a goofier and lighter female character).


I don't see Ivy as either introverted OR misunderstood. She's a misanthrope, so she has no interest in socializing with her species, and she's rather clear in her goals.

----------


## Londo Bellian

> Poison Ivy, Teen Superhero?
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-y5Ff18iWk


"_Great gardenias_! The amethyst looks like its about to fall like an _autumn leaf_!"

Great all-ages Ivy dialogue.

----------


## Agent Z

> Because that's not who Poison Ivy is. Poison Ivy is someone who loves nature, and this obsession has driven her to misanthropy.
> 
> Turning her into a superhero would drastically change her character to the point where she's unrecognizable.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see Ivy as either introverted OR misunderstood. She's a misanthrope, so she has no interest in socializing with her species, and she's rather clear in her goals.


The "loves nature" part is pretty much the one thing that is consistent when it comes to Ivy. Remember she started out as a misndrist murderess who had something of a crush on Batman. She wouldn't be that unrecognizable as a hero who defended nature. 

Also, this is about the version that appears on a cartoon for kids. I doubt it will have much impact on the comics.

----------


## Confuzzled

The preview for Poison Ivy: Cycle of Life and Death #2 coming out tomorrow (or today for East Coasters)

----------


## Green Ghost

Looking good! And here's the solicits for #5:



> *POISON IVY: CYCLE OF LIFE AND DEATH #5*
> Written by AMY CHU
> Art by CLAY MANN and SETH MANN
> Cover by CLAY MANN
> On sale MAY 18 • 32 pg, FC, 5 of 6, $2.99 US • RATED T
> Trouble is brewing as Poison Ivy’s sporelings discover their powers and spread their wings, causing mayhem across Gotham City! Plus, a murderer-mastermind is revealed in this penultimate chapter of Life and Death!


Source

----------


## Confuzzled

The sporelings turned out fine.  :Stick Out Tongue:  Good job, Ivy.

----------


## Unfinishedsentenc

Really cool to see the transactions of her experiment play out on the covers. That is what's going on, right? Almost like a flip book  :Smile:

----------


## Old Man Ollie 1962



----------


## MentalManipulator

> 


I love thisIvy always made me think of the vamp redheads featured in Klimt's work.

example:
sea_serpents_ii.jpg

----------


## TsukiSentinel

> The "loves nature" part is pretty much the one thing that is consistent when it comes to Ivy. Remember she started out as a misndrist murderess who had something of a crush on Batman. She wouldn't be that unrecognizable as a hero who defended nature. 
> 
> Also, this is about the version that appears on a cartoon for kids. I doubt it will have much impact on the comics.


YOU'RE talking about the cartoon. I'm talking in general. 

Also, I don't care if she's recognizable or not as a hero, or anti-hero. I'm saying she shouldn't be either.

----------


## Agent Z

> YOU'RE talking about the cartoon. I'm talking in general. 
> 
> Also, I don't care if she's recognizable or not as a hero, or anti-hero. I'm saying she shouldn't be either.


She's not an anti hero in the comics right now either. One cartoon (which btw also has Harley and Cheetah as heroes) has presented her as such to little children. That's it.

----------


## Confuzzled

Yamato USA's Poison Ivy sculpt, the latest in their DC Fantasy Figures line inspired by the art of Luis Royo:





Gotta love the product description that wouldn't seem out of place coming from Uma Thurman in _Batman and Robin_.




> _Look out world, Mother Nature has just got herself some muscle… oh, and some sexy curves! I heard it through the grapevine that you  might be interested in little ol’ me… so tell me, care to have a late night stroll through the gardens? If so, then let me entice you for a late night rendezvous, with me, Poison Ivy As an addition to Yamato USA Toys, DC “Fantasy Figure” collection, I can already feel your interest in me blossoming. So how about it, Darling? How about adding me to your collection for some cross pollination and cultivating….I really am to die for…_


Pre-order the goddess of green here.

----------


## juan678

http://www.deviantart.com/art/TLIID-...rley-595969734

----------


## Starter Set

> Let it grow, let it grow, stop cutting down rainforests bro....


Haha, that's clever.

----------


## Confuzzled

YouTube's Grace Randolph suggests her casting choices for Poison Ivy in Suicide Squad 2:

----------


## Confuzzled

Joe Quinones's take on a hypothetical Poison Ivy played by Geena Davis in Tim Burton's Batman universe.

----------


## Confuzzled

Preview for Poison Ivy #3 releasing today

----------


## Londo Bellian

Regarding Cycle of Life and Death #3:
*spoilers:*
Man, Hannibal much? For a mini solicited as Ivy trying her hand at solving a murder mystery, she seems to be needlessly demonstrating her genocidal misanthropy by murdering at least one person for every issue. I mean come on, offing a(n admittedly abrasive) spinster in #2 just out of annoyance at her free-roam big dogs? And I guess the Jain lab assistant is plant food next ish too, with Selina present and letting it pass due to old roomie codes. Her being betrayed by the sporelings if the last issue cover is telling the truth seems more karma at this rate. Shape up now.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Confuzzled

Personally, I like her unpredictability and instability despite things. Makes her more intriguing. As she told Harley in the first issue, "Don't classify me".

----------


## Unfinishedsentenc

> Regarding Cycle of Life and Death #3:
> *spoilers:*
> Man, Hannibal much? For a mini solicited as Ivy trying her hand at solving a murder mystery, she seems to be needlessly demonstrating her genocidal misanthropy by murdering at least one person for every issue. I mean come on, offing a(n admittedly abrasive) spinster in #2 just out of annoyance at her free-roam big dogs? And I guess the Jain lab assistant is plant food next ish too, with Selina present and letting it pass due to old roomie codes. Her being betrayed by the sporelings if the last issue cover is telling the truth seems more karma at this rate. Shape up now.
> *end of spoilers*


Completely agree. I hate it when writers just kill of some random or obscure bystander or minor character just for shock-value. Or to demonstrate how "evil" or "complex" the villain is. It's bad writing if you ask me.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Completely agree. I hate it when writers just kill of some random or obscure bystander or minor character just for shock-value. Or to demonstrate how "evil" or "complex" the villain is. It's bad writing if you ask me.


Maybe the writer is doing it because she thinks the character would come across as too tamed down otherwise? There are people who say they want Ivy to go back to her villainous roots so maybe Chu is trying to please everyone?

Personally though, as I mentioned previously, I think the contradictory nature works fine for a deeply conflicted personality like Poison Ivy.

----------


## Confuzzled

There was a Poison Ivy panel at C2E2.

Amy Chu had this to say about Ivy's moral compass:




> “She has no understanding of good or bad. She has her own moral compass.” She’s different from villains like the Joker or the Penguin.

----------


## TsukiSentinel

> There was a Poison Ivy panel at C2E2.
> 
> Amy Chu had this to say about Ivy's moral compass:


What does she mean she doesn't have any understanding of good or bad? Is she an idiot or something? That makes no sense. Ivy is perfectly capable of grasping these concepts. She just doesn't care about them.

The only way it makes sense is if she doesn't attach any emotions to humans. That way it can be said that she understands good/bad on a logical level, but not on an emotional level.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> What does she mean she doesn't have any understanding of good or bad? Is she an idiot or something? That makes no sense. Ivy is perfectly capable of grasping these concepts. She just doesn't care about them.
> 
> The only way it makes sense is if she doesn't attach any emotions to humans. That way it can be said that she understands good/bad on a logical level, but not on an emotional level.


I'm sure that's what she meant.

----------


## Confuzzled

While we don't know if Ivy's solo will resume in Rebirth, apparently Scott Snyder will use her in a major way for the first time as she was one of the Rogues teased for his All-Star Batman:



Excited to see Snyder's take on her, especially if he's teaming up for his Poison Ivy story with either Afua Richardson or Tula Lotay, both of whom could deliver an ethereal and compelling Ivy.

Oh and for Harley/Ivy fans, the Palmiottis said that Ivy would be appearing a lot more in Rebirth _Harley Quinn_.

----------


## TsukiSentinel

> While we don't know if Ivy's solo will resume in Rebirth, apparently Scott Snyder will use her in a major way for the first time as she was one of the Rogues teased for his All-Star Batman:
> 
> 
> 
> Excited to see Snyder's take on her, especially if he's teaming up for his Poison Ivy story with either Afua Richardson or Tula Lotay, both of whom could deliver an ethereal and compelling Ivy.
> 
> Oh and for Harley/Ivy fans, the Palmiottis said that Ivy would be appearing a lot more in Rebirth _Harley Quinn_.


Is there a link where I can find out more about this Allstar Batman?

----------


## Confuzzled

> Is there a link where I can find out more about this Allstar Batman?


Here you go. You can also watch Scott Snyder discuss All-Star Batman in the Wonder Con Rebirth Creators and Covers Reveal video on YouTube. From what I understood, he will be focusing on Batman taking on the classic Rogues pictured in the promo pic above. There will be rotating artists and John Romita Jr. is working on a Two-Face story. Whether Ivy and the other villains factor in the same story or will be featured in their own stories is unconfirmed. Seeing how Two-Face is not right in the center of the Rogues, I assume all five of these villains will get their own stories or there will be more stories other than the Two-Face one, drawn by the other artists listed.

----------


## darkseidpwns

> While we don't know if Ivy's solo will resume in Rebirth, apparently Scott Snyder will use her in a major way for the first time as she was one of the Rogues teased for his All-Star Batman:
> 
> 
> 
> Excited to see Snyder's take on her, especially if he's teaming up for his Poison Ivy story with either Afua Richardson or Tula Lotay, both of whom could deliver an ethereal and compelling Ivy.
> 
> Oh and for Harley/Ivy fans, the Palmiottis said that Ivy would be appearing a lot more in Rebirth _Harley Quinn_.


Yeah it's good that classic Ivy and cutie Ivy can both co-exist.

----------


## Green Ghost

> While we don't know if Ivy's solo will resume in Rebirth, apparently Scott Snyder will use her in a major way for the first time as she was one of the Rogues teased for his All-Star Batman:
> 
> 
> 
> Excited to see Snyder's take on her, especially if he's teaming up for his Poison Ivy story with either Afua Richardson or Tula Lotay, both of whom could deliver an ethereal and compelling Ivy.
> 
> Oh and for Harley/Ivy fans, the Palmiottis said that Ivy would be appearing a lot more in Rebirth _Harley Quinn_.


More Ivy in Harley book?! Ugh...But the Snyder news: YAY! Can't wait what he'll do with her and so far he didn't write her all villainy in the short appearances she had in his books, so hope this will continue. He also said, they will be redesigned. Curious how this will turn out.

In other Ivy news, here's the cover for *Poison Ivy: Cycle of Life & Death #6*, the final issue of the mini:

Source

And a glimpse at Ivy from the upcoming *The LEGO Batman Movie*:

Full Teaser-Trailer

----------


## Green Ghost

...and here's the solicits text:



> POISON IVY CYCLE OF LIFE AND DEATH #6 (OF 6)
> Poison Ivy and her Sporelings battle for survival in the epic final chapter of "Cycle of Life and Death"! The monster Grim makes his final move, the murderer is revealed, and Pamela Isley's life will be forever changed! Plus, someone, or someTHING, joins the fray!


They are hinting at *Swamp Thing*, which is awesome!

----------


## Confuzzled

Poison Ivy #6 has the weakest cover so far, but that's a testament to the fine standard Clay Mann has set for himself. Still though, was expecting something more... festive, as it is the last issue and also coincides with Ivy's 50th anniversary.

Lego Movie Ivy >> Actual Lego Ivy

----------


## Doctor Bifrost

Gosh, I just wish I saw Superman dressed like Ivy on the cover of #6 a little more! I wonder why I don't?

----------


## Doctor Bifrost

> POISON IVY CYCLE OF LIFE AND DEATH #6 (OF 6)...Pamela Isley's life will be forever changed!


Gosh, maybe the police and superheroes will find out who she is, and in the future be able to recognize her when she works at a lab under her own name!

But I would have thought this would have happened already.

----------


## Confuzzled

Scott Snyder revealed that Tula Lotay will be drawing Poison Ivy in his All-Star Batman.




> _But I was like, “What does that leave me when I have all these stories I want to do, particularly with all the villains?” And I started coming up with this idea back in August, where I started thinking, what if I do a series where I invite some of the best artists in the series in to do Batman stories, but in continuity with All-Star Batman for the first time ever, make it a new ongoing series that allows me to work with different artists. So it’s not really the same thing that allowed me to work with one guy the way I did with Greg, but I’m working on every villain with a different artist that’s paired to them, that loves that villain and has a new idea for how to do them. The way we revamped Joker, John Romita, Jr. is revamping Two-Face. And all of that’s in continuity, so when they show up in other books, they’ll look like these character you see in All-Star Batman.
> 
> Their origins are the same, nothing is changing, in the way that Rebirth isn’t changing the origins of characters, we’re not. But it’s the same thing we did with the Joker where we didn’t change what came before with him, but we introduced him in a way you hadn’t seen before. So I was like, if I can get John to do an arc with me, and I can get Sean Murphy to do an arc with me, and Jock? I got my anchors. So I couldn’t have been more excited when they all said they could do some stuff together. Really, the big anchors for me are John and Sean. Jock is doing a smaller one in the middle. It really is a dream series. I started inviting people like Declan Shalvey, Francesco Francavilla is doing a part with Jock, so we’re getting our “Black Mirror” team back together. Tula Lotay is doing Poison Ivy._


Based on the rest of the interview, I guess Ivy will receive a one-shot, though she may appear later in the series as well. It appears that Snyder and Lotay's take on her will stick with us for the time being. Excited as I think Lotay could knock this out of the park. Samples of her work from _Supreme Blue Rose_ by Warren Ellis:

----------


## Confuzzled

Hey guys, Comixology is offering a pretty sweet sale on many digital issues featuring Poison Ivy on the occassion of her 50th Anniversary!



Includes _Hothouse_, Ivy's 1966 debut, _Batgirl Annual #2_, her _Villains Month_ issue and her appearances in JLU, all of _Gotham City Sirens_, _Lil Gotham #19_ and much more.

----------


## Confuzzled

The preview for Poison Ivy: Cycle of Life and Death #4 is out!

----------


## Confuzzled

Issue #4 is easily the best issue yet. Excited for you guys to read it. For all those concerned with her brutal ways, this issue lays it out pretty nicely.

----------


## Confuzzled

The preview for Cycle of Life and Death #5 introduces the teenage Sporelings. And Pam likes classical music. Aw.

----------


## adrikito

look at the world as humanity .. with animals and natural areas suffering for our fault..

It is a pity that she should be treated as a villain.. we are selfish and think of ourselves and she only in plants, an eco terrorist.... although now she is more antihero..

I'm a fan of the series, so I appreciate Pamela Isley.

----------


## Bukdiah

I gotta read her mini-series it seems

----------


## Green Ghost

Thanks for keeping everybody updated Confuzzled! Been bussy, but try to contribute more here  :Smile: 




> Scott Snyder revealed that Tula Lotay will be drawing Poison Ivy in his All-Star Batman.
> 
> Based on the rest of the interview, I guess Ivy will receive a one-shot, though she may appear later in the series as well. It appears that Snyder and Lotay's take on her will stick with us for the time being. Excited as I think Lotay could knock this out of the park. Samples of her work from _Supreme Blue Rose_ by Warren Ellis:


So curious how this will turn out! Wonder where Synder will take her, but so far his Ivy wasn't too villainy so far, so I am hopefull! And looking forward to see the redesign, but I'll miss the black suit...




> Issue #4 is easily the best issue yet. Excited for you guys to read it. For all those concerned with her brutal ways, this issue lays it out pretty nicely.


Issue 4 was great, really the best one yet! And the sales for the book is showing that people really dig it with #4 only selling -1.35% less than #3. The numbers are very solid!




> look at the world as humanity .. with animals and natural areas suffering for our fault..
> 
> It is a pity that she should be treated as a villain.. we are selfish and think of ourselves and she only in plants, an eco terrorist.... although now she is more antihero..
> 
> I'm a fan of the series, so I appreciate Pamela Isley.


It is really sad that they still treat her as a villain and says alot about our society.




> I gotta read her mini-series it seems


It's worth it  :Wink:

----------


## Green Ghost

In August Ivy will have two TPs!

A collection of classic stories:



> *BATMAN: ARKHAM: POISON IVY TP*
> Written by ROBERT KANIGHER, GERRY CONWAY, JOHN FRANCIS MOORE, MARC ANDREYKO and others
> Art by IRV NOVICK, BRIAN APTHORP, DUNCAN FEGREDO, JAVIER PINA, GUILLEM MARCH,
> P. CRAIG RUSSELL and others
> Cover by GUILLEM MARCH
> These are the greatest stories of Poison Ivy, one of Batman’s deadliest foes, from the pages of BATMAN #181 and #339, BATMAN/POISON IVY #1, BATMAN CHRONICLES #9, BATMAN: SHADOW OF THE BAT ANNUAL #3, DETECTIVE COMICS #23.1, GOTHAM CITY SIRENS #8, JOKER’S ASYLUM: POISON IVY #1, BATMAN: LEGENDS OF THE DARK KNIGHT #42-43, WORLD’S FINEST #251-252 and SECRET ORIGINS #36!
> On sale SEPTEMBER 7 • 312 pg, FC, $19.99 US


and the collection of the terrific mini:



> *POISON IVY: CYCLE OF LIFE AND DEATH TP*
> Written by AMY CHU
> Art by CLAY MANN, SETH MANN, ROBSON ROCHA, ETHAN VAN SCIVER and others
> Cover by CLAY MANN
> Life. Death. Poison Ivy has power over both. But can she keep her friends and hold down a regular job at the same time? As Dr. Pamela Isley, she joins the prestigious plant sciences department at Gotham Botanical Gardens, but things quickly get complicated when a fellow scientist is murdered and it looks like the work of Ivy. Collects the acclaimed six-issue miniseries.
> On sale SEPTEMBER 7 • 144 pg, FC, $16.99 US


She's also featured on the cover of Harley Quinn #1 and is said to appear more often in the title, which isn't good for Ivy as a independent character...

Source

*So it is important that you buy her solo stuff like the mini and two TPs*, because then DC sees that the character can sell comics on her own!

----------


## Confuzzled

> I gotta read her mini-series it seems


Why aren't you lol.

----------


## Confuzzled

> In August Ivy will have two TPs!
> 
> A collection of classic stories:
> 
> 
> and the collection of the terrific mini:
> 
> 
> *So it is important that you buy her solo stuff like the mini and two TPs*, because then DC sees that the character can sell comics on her own!


Wow I didn't know about the collection of classic stories. That's cool. Going through the August solicits, I also noticed that* THE DC UNIVERSE BY NEIL GAIMAN DELUXE EDITION HC* collects Gaiman's origin story for Ivy: "Pavane" in Secret Origins #36. 

Also, guess who's acing another poll as usual, this time for "The Character Who Should Appear with Harley Quinn in DC's Ensemble Film".  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Bukdiah

> Why aren't you lol.


I don't know, I guess I have only seen her in small dosages in Harley Quinn's series but never thought of her carrying her own title lol

----------


## Punisher007

Is that really surprising.  When you talk Harley, Ivy and Joker are the two other characters who immediately come to most people's minds.

----------


## Confuzzled

Jonboy Meyers' variant cover for 1993's _Batman Adventures #12_, available at MegaCon:

----------


## Confuzzled

> Issue 4 was great, really the best one yet! And the sales for the book is showing that people really dig it with #4 only selling -1.35% less than #3. The numbers are very solid!


Issue #5 is another excellent issue! It was fascinating to see Ivy cope with raising the restless teenage Sporelings, and try to protect them from the outside world. And oh, the mastermind behind the Botanical Gardens murders is revealed, and _boy was I not expecting that!_ Ivy's connection to the Parliament of Trees is also touched upon. This issue really did have everything for Poison Ivy fans! Nice to hear that sales for the mini are solid, it deserves it.

----------


## Deadly Garden

I've noticed that nobody has really discussed Poison Ivy's place in the DC Rebirth event. She doesn't appear to be a featured character in any of the new books - though I'm sure she'll be once again stuck as an "also" in a Harley Quinn title. I guess I'm just paranoid that she's not seen on any of the wide angle character promo sheets. Oddly enough neither is Catwoman. But as per usual Harley is there ugh. I never thought I'd have to suffer that clown pretty much sucking up all the air in the room and leaving no space for the more classic female villains. 

I've mostly enjoyed the mini series but what if anything is planned for Poison Ivy beyond that effort. Is it finally good riddance to that bio suit and corny as heck latest origin? I'm amused that artists slowly opted out of the catsuit on their own. Still undecided on the mini dress though. Will her powers once again derive from the green without the costume as a conduit? I feel like at the end of Sirens they got her power levels right - very strong and controlled. I dunno...there seemed to be a lot of interest in refining and promoting Pam but now this retooling has hit and there's quite a few characters missing.

----------


## Unfinishedsentenc

> I've noticed that nobody has really discussed Poison Ivy's place in the DC Rebirth event. She doesn't appear to be a featured character in any of the new books - though I'm sure she'll be once again stuck as an "also" in a Harley Quinn title. I guess I'm just paranoid that she's not seen on any of the wide angle character promo sheets. Oddly enough neither is Catwoman. But as per usual Harley is there ugh. I never thought I'd have to suffer that clown pretty much sucking up all the air in the room and leaving no space for the more classic female villains. 
> 
> I've mostly enjoyed the mini series but what if anything is planned for Poison Ivy beyond that effort. Is it finally good riddance to that bio suit and corny as heck latest origin? I'm amused that artists slowly opted out of the catsuit on their own. Still undecided on the mini dress though. Will her powers once again derive from the green without the costume as a conduit? I feel like at the end of Sirens they got her power levels right - very strong and controlled. I dunno...there seemed to be a lot of interest in refining and promoting Pam but now this retooling has hit and there's quite a few characters missing.


Scott Snyder said that he had a story for her in mind for All-Star. Excited to see his take on Ivy, he's nailed every other character thus far, IMO.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I've noticed that nobody has really discussed Poison Ivy's place in the DC Rebirth event. She doesn't appear to be a featured character in any of the new books - though I'm sure she'll be once again stuck as an "also" in a Harley Quinn title. I guess I'm just paranoid that she's not seen on any of the wide angle character promo sheets. Oddly enough neither is Catwoman. But as per usual Harley is there ugh. I never thought I'd have to suffer that clown pretty much sucking up all the air in the room and leaving no space for the more classic female villains. 
> 
> I've mostly enjoyed the mini series but what if anything is planned for Poison Ivy beyond that effort. Is it finally good riddance to that bio suit and corny as heck latest origin? I'm amused that artists slowly opted out of the catsuit on their own. Still undecided on the mini dress though. Will her powers once again derive from the green without the costume as a conduit? I feel like at the end of Sirens they got her power levels right - very strong and controlled. I dunno...there seemed to be a lot of interest in refining and promoting Pam but now this retooling has hit and there's quite a few characters missing.


Ivy will be appearing in _All-Star Batman_ with apparently a redesign by Tula Lotay. Snyder said the redesigns for the Bat-villains in the book will stick for a while, so I wonder whether that's the reason they aren't show Pam, Selina and the other Rogues who will appear in the book? DC doesn't want to reveal their new looks yet. I guess that means it's the end of the biosuit and everything it represented regarding Ivy's powers. Don't know about the origin but seeing how "Rebirth" is all about shedding things "New 52", chances are slim it will remain either.

Amy Chu, the writer of the mini, who is pretty prolific on Twitter, told Ivy fans to keep "their fingers crossed". The sales for the mini are pretty good so it's possible DC may extend it into an ongoing after a break. Or maybe there will be a second volume of Sirens? It would be dumb to bench Ivy and Catwoman, unarguably two of comics' most iconic villainesses/anti-heroines.

Oh and yeah, Amanda Conner did confirm Ivy will appear a lot more in the _Harley Quinn_ comics.

----------


## Frontier

DCYou was certainly an era of short-lived redesigns what with Rebirth redesigning practically everyone again  :Stick Out Tongue: .

Hope Ivy's new design is good though, and that Snyder uses her well in All-Star  :Smile: .

With the rumors about the female-led movie Margot Robbie is pulling for and their obvious popularity, I wouldn't be surprised to see Gotham City Sirens return.

----------


## Confuzzled

Ivy seems to play a decent sized role in the next Lego DC DTV movie, _Justice League: Gotham City Breakout_, out July 12:

----------


## juan678

art by Leandro Matos

----------


## Green Ghost

It seems the Batman Arkham Knight Poison Ivy Action Figure got cancelled:



> The following DC Collectibles items have been cancelled and will not be resolicited:
> BATMAN ARKHAM KNIGHT: POISON IVY ACTION FIGURE


http://www.comiclist.com/index.php/l...for-06-08-2016

This sucks, I was looking forward to get her...Harley & Joker from this wave will still get made. Anybody got a contact from DC Collectibles or so? Would like to ask them about this.

----------


## Confuzzled

> It seems the Batman Arkham Knight Poison Ivy Action Figure got cancelled:
> 
> http://www.comiclist.com/index.php/l...for-06-08-2016
> 
> This sucks, I was looking forward to get her...Harley & Joker from this wave will still get made. Anybody got a contact from DC Collectibles or so? Would like to ask them about this.


There was supposed to be an Arkham Knight Ivy figure? Either I forgot or didn't know about it. Honestly speaking though, can't say I'm too upset as the AK design is one of my least favorite designs for Ivy. But bummer for you.

----------


## Confuzzled

On the sunnier side, _Poison Ivy: Cycle of Life and Death #5_ actually jumped 5 whole ranks from its predecessor on the sales chart for the Top 100 comic books. Waiting for sales numbers to confirm whether it increased in copies sold too but this is great news either which way. Miniseries just don't perform this well unless they are event books or starring Batman. And especially when they are from a relatively new writer and an artist who isn't well-known beyond certain fanbases either. Confirms there is strong interest in the character. If DC announces a _Poison Ivy Rebirth_ book from the same creative team, it is poised to make a big debut.

----------


## Green Ghost

> On the sunnier side, _Poison Ivy: Cycle of Life and Death #5_ actually jumped 5 whole ranks from its predecessor on the sales chart for the Top 100 comic books. Waiting for sales numbers to confirm whether it increased in copies sold too but this is great news either which way. Miniseries just don't perform this well unless they are event books or starring Batman. And especially when they are from a relatively new writer and an artist who isn't well-known beyond certain fanbases either. Confirms there is strong interest in the character. If DC announces a _Poison Ivy Rebirth_ book from the same creative team, it is poised to make a big debut.


It only had a small decline of just -3.77% (Source)! It sold better than many titles who get a Rebirth treatment (Green Arrow, Deathstroke, Teen Titans, Batman Beyond, Red Hood, Constantine, even selling double as many issues as Cyborg)

I love that the book is so steady! Great sign for the character and Amy Chu & the whole creative team! DC really need to think about her presence in Rebirth!

----------


## Green Ghost

In other news, Ivy will be a series regular in *Gotham Season 3*, but with a twist: Clare Foley will be replaced with an older actress in her late teens!



> Gotham is giving one of its emerging villains an extreme makeover and a promotion.
> 
> TVLine has learned exclusively that when the Fox drama returns this fall with Season 3, little Ivy Pepper will have transformed into big, bad Poison Ivy. As a result, Clare Foley — who has intermittently appeared as the plant-obsessed orphan during the series’ first two seasons — will not be returning.
> 
> Casting is underway for an actress in her late teens to assume the now-series regular role of the would-be eco-terrorist.


Source

While I'm still not a fan of the show, seeing more of Ivy should be nice. But I am afraid they recast her to be more evil, because Clare Foley is still too cute.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> In other news, Ivy will be a series regular in *Gotham Season 3*, but with a twist: Clare Foley will be replaced with an older actress in her late teens!
> 
> Source
> 
> While I'm still not a fan of the show, seeing more of Ivy should be nice. But I am afraid they recast her to be more evil, because Clare Foley is still too cute.


Also I'm sure they want to explore her seductress side and using a kid actor would just be wrong. Hoping this and her mini success will make DC want to include her in the new Harley all female movie roster

----------


## Deadly Garden

I've said this elsewhere today. I suspect Clare was recast because she isn't physically maturing at the same rate as her fellow actors of around the same age. She looks, by far, the youngest character on the show. If they were to give her the villain treatment it would look foolish to have Clare try and pass as tough or menacing when she's been very much the tiny wallflower. So a late teens recast opens up the door to a more fully realized character. And hopefully they retcon all that Ivy Pepper stuff to the trash bin.

----------


## Confuzzled

I kind of feel sorry for Clare as she was overtly enthusiastic about playing Poison Ivy. One of the rare instances where a teen actress continued to look like her pre-pubescent self. But on the other hand, 14 is too young to play the seductress side of Ivy anyway. Don't know why the production cast such a young actress in the first place.

----------


## Thirteen

> In other news, Ivy will be a series regular in *Gotham Season 3*, but with a twist: Clare Foley will be replaced with an older actress in her late teens!
> 
> Source
> 
> While I'm still not a fan of the show, seeing more of Ivy should be nice. But I am afraid they recast her to be more evil, because Clare Foley is still too cute.


Make that a 28 year old actress playing a 19 year old Ivy!  Double the age of the first actress. 

 “Following an encounter with a monster from Indian Hill, Ivy Pepper finds herself reborn, and one step closer to the DC villain she is destined to become: Poison Ivy. Now a 19-year-old woman who’s harnessed the full power of her charms, she sets her sights on Bruce Wayne.”
http://www.ew.com/article/2016/06/22...eha-poison-ivy





...yeah, they are sexing her up...and it might be a bit creepy
http://www.themarysue.com/gotham-mak...on-ivy-creepy/
http://www.hitfix.com/harpy/did-goth...ld-bruce-wayne
http://io9.gizmodo.com/meet-gothams-...ivy-1782427679

----------


## signalman112

Its going to be a bit weird when the new Ivy tries to flirt and seduces 15 year old Bruce.

----------


## Confuzzled

So a 13-14 year old Ivy, given the body of a 19 year old by a monster, to seduce a 15 year old Bruce? It's like Gotham wants to be Game of Thrones but is going about it in its characteristically awkward and messy way.

On the positive side, the actress couldn't look more perfect for the part of Teen Ivy.

----------


## Unfinishedsentenc

> Its going to be a bit weird when the new Ivy tries to flirt and seduces 15 year old Bruce.


I wouldn't worry too much about it; I'm sure he'll be more than happy to accommodate the scene.

----------


## Bukdiah

This was so damn random. I thought season 3 was gonna feature a weird time jump or something.

----------


## Chrysalis_Changling

does anyone feel like Poison Ivy Might Be In Danger of being used as nothing more than Harley Quinn's Girlfriend?(the pages they used to preview Harley Quinn#29 made Ivy seem like a lovesick puppy doting over harley)

----------


## Confuzzled

> does anyone feel like Poison Ivy Might Be In Danger of being used as nothing more than Harley Quinn's Girlfriend?(the pages they used to preview Harley Quinn#29 made Ivy seem like a lovesick puppy doting over harley)


I don't read the HQ solo as "sidekick/love interest" is all the Conners like using Ivy as so I don't care how she's treated in that book (also, while Amanda Conner is a great artist, the way she draws Ivy, especially in the New 52 costume, is so blah). I'm interested in seeing what Scott Snyder and Tula Lotay do with Ivy in All-Star Batman though, even if it seems to be just one issue. Meanwhile, Amy Chu has started the #MoreDCPoisonIvy hashtag on Twitter. So if you liked the Ivy mini and want more, use that hashtag.

----------


## Deadly Garden

I really hate when people project their own bizarre preoccupations and knee jerk reactions onto a situation that doesn't need to be fussed over. Nowhere in the news released about the character update does it imply that it was specifically done to make her the shows resident tart. Or that she has any intention of "seducing" Bruce Wayne. It does insinuate that because she is now older she is going to cause more trouble for Jim Gordon and the GCPD - just like all the other villains. AND that she is going to deliberately cause drama for Bruce. Something that can be done in fairly innocent ways. So all this sex stuff is in the heads of people wanting to make an issue out of this. I feel the "do over" was necessary. Otherwise the "Ivy Pepper"/Poison Ivy storyline would remain a barely there after thought.

Also - when did the idea of the classic femme fatale become something to be feared, scrutinized, and dismissed? Ugh...hell IS other people. This is fantasy...fiction. Save the social justice meddling for Facebook.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I really hate when people project their own bizarre preoccupations and knee jerk reactions onto a situation that doesn't need to be fussed over. Nowhere in the news released about the character update does it imply that it was specifically done to make her the shows resident tart. Or that she has any intention of "seducing" Bruce Wayne. It does insinuate that because she is now older she is going to cause more trouble for Jim Gordon and the GCPD - just like all the other villains. AND that she is going to deliberately cause drama for Bruce. Something that can be done in fairly innocent ways. So all this sex stuff is in the heads of people wanting to make an issue out of this. I feel the "do over" was necessary. Otherwise the "Ivy Pepper"/Poison Ivy storyline would remain a barely there after thought.
> 
> Also - when did the idea of the classic femme fatale become something to be feared, scrutinized, and dismissed? Ugh...hell IS other people. This is fantasy...fiction. Save the social justice meddling for Facebook.


Hmm, doesn't "...now a 19-year old woman who has harnessed the full power of her _charms_" sound like they are going for the seductress angle? Also, a previous casting description for the role pretty much described it as a seductress who trapped men with her feminine wiles, or something to that effect.

I think those sites have more of a problem with the character being a child who is now weirdly put into a "legal" body and made to seduce men, including another minor child.

Regarding the femme fatale complaints, it's hardly new. The character is pulled in every possible direction by different sections of her fanbase. Some want her to be nothing more than a fetishized gf of Harley, some want her to be a campy seductress, some want her to be a murderous lunatic, others want her to be an Earth goddess and maternal defender of the environment. At this point, I don't blame creators for being confused regarding the identity and purpose of the character. People just want to paint her the way they want to "Madonna/whore/murderess/witch/goddess/scientist". What is the constant anymore?

----------


## RedQueen

Creepy. Just do a time jump. Or like make her Ivy Pepper's older sister who's name is Pamela Isley.

----------


## Chrysalis_Changling

> I don't read the HQ solo as "sidekick/love interest" is all the Conners like using Ivy as so I don't care how she's treated in that book (also, while Amanda Conner is a great artist, the way she draws Ivy, especially in the New 52 costume, is so blah). I'm interested in seeing what Scott Snyder and Tula Lotay do with Ivy in All-Star Batman though, even if it seems to be just one issue. Meanwhile, Amy Chu has started the #MoreDCPoisonIvy hashtag on Twitter. So if you liked the Ivy mini and want more, use that hashtag.


so you don't care about how Ivy's treated in the only book where she's a star and are only interested in the book where she'll just be a one time guest star most likely?

makes a lot of sense

----------


## Confuzzled

I don't buy the HQ solo, it doesn't even happen in continuity, so there's no point in cribbing about Ivy's depiction in that book. I'd rather support folks who are campaigning for more Poison Ivy stories separate from that book.

----------


## GamerSlyRatchet

> Creepy. Just do a time jump. Or like make her Ivy Pepper's older sister who's name is Pamela Isley.


Not even a sister. They could've just introduced Pamela Isley and have her take on Ivy as a mentor figure. It would've allowed them to start over with Pam, free Ivy to be her own character, and the casting would've made sense. Granted, a 28-year-old playing a 19-year-old trying to seduce a 15-year-old is still going to be creepy.

----------


## Unfinishedsentenc

> Not even a sister. They could've just introduced Pamela Isley and have her take on Ivy as a mentor figure. It would've allowed them to start over with Pam, free Ivy to be her own character, and the casting would've made sense. Granted, a 28-year-old playing a 19-year-old trying to seduce a 15-year-old is still going to be creepy.


Steer clear of Game of Thrones.

----------


## Chrysalis_Changling

> I don't buy the HQ solo, it doesn't even happen in continuity, so there's no point in cribbing about Ivy's depiction in that book. I'd rather support folks who are campaigning for more Poison Ivy stories separate from that book.


as long as Harley Quinn is selling like hotcakes with surging popularity  i don't see Poison Ivy popping much outside Harley's book

----------


## Doctor Bifrost

> Steer clear of Game of Thrones.


In GoT, it's _meant_ to be creepy.

----------


## GamerSlyRatchet

> Steer clear of Game of Thrones.


Too little, too late.




> In GoT, it's _meant_ to be creepy.


Indeed.

----------


## buck135

Hello all. I'm new to this site and I'm a huge Poison Ivy fan. I have a couple of questions. Is Comicvine the only resource to track down all of Ivy's appearances over the past 50 years? Also, Comicvine mentions that she appears in the latest issue on Teen Titans (issue 21). I cannot find where. Have any of you been able to locate her in this issue? Thanks!

----------


## Confuzzled

HitFix's Donna Dickens spoke to Dan Didio on Poison Ivy's prospects of a Rebirth title and he acknowledged the strong sales of the mini, and said an ongoing looks likely especially if the trade is a bigger hit (as was apparently the case with the Midnighter series):




> _Didio told me Poison Ivy is what they call a “cusp” book. Her individual issue sales did well enough — averaging around 20k copies per month according to ComicChron — but they’re hoping graphic novel sales will be robust. They have high hopes since Steve Orlando’s Midnighter series also had average single-issue sales but then exploded once graphic novels hit mass market (bookstore) shelves.
> 
> Didio also said, “People love to write [Poison Ivy] so we’ll probably work something out.”_


Amy Chu also mentioned that DC had approached her for ideas regarding a follow-up.

----------


## Confuzzled

Fried Pie Comics variant for All-Star Batman #1 by Ben Caldwell:

----------


## TsukiSentinel

> In GoT, it's _meant_ to be creepy.


Tell that to the Sansa/Sandor shippers, or the Petyr/Sansa shippers. Sansa is 13yo in the last GoT book.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Tell that to the Sansa/Sandor shippers, or the Petyr/Sansa shippers. Sansa is 13yo in the last GoT book.


Fan shipping's got nothing to do with the show's intentions though.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Nowhere in the news released about the character update does it imply that it was specifically done to make her the shows resident tart. Or that she has any intention of "seducing" Bruce Wayne. It does insinuate that because she is now older she is going to cause more trouble for Jim Gordon and the GCPD - just like all the other villains. AND that she is going to deliberately cause drama for Bruce. Something that can be done in fairly innocent ways. So all this sex stuff is in the heads of people wanting to make an issue out of this.


If there was still any lingering doubt, the first official still of the character released by the show will put it to rest:

----------


## Atlanta96

> If there was still any lingering doubt, the first official still of the character released by the show will put it to rest:


She's not even a redhead. I hate that show so much.

----------


## buck135

> She's not even a redhead. I hate that show so much.


That doesn't bother me as much as the Ivy Pepper nonsense, but I agree that she should have dyed her hair.

----------


## Atlanta96

> That doesn't bother me as much as the Ivy Pepper nonsense, but I agree that she should have dyed her hair.


#HollywoodHatesGingers  :Smile:

----------


## TsukiSentinel

> She's not even a redhead. I hate that show so much.


Yes she is. Ginger hair comes in various shades, including hers.

----------


## Atlanta96

> Yes she is. Ginger hair comes in various shades, including hers.


But that's not the shade associated with Ivy. Even Batman and Robin got it right.
image.jpg

----------


## Confuzzled

Okay, so apparently Gotham's aged-up Ivy is going to be asexual of sorts. But still manipulate people with her looks.




> ...while Geha herself asserted that the comic Poison Ivy’s seductive characterization wouldn’t be applied to a mentally adolescent character:
> _I think it’s going to be more about discovering how other people perceive her and what means. A lot of people are focused on her sexuality. I think Ivy, in my opinion, doesn’t really feel sexual about anybody. I think if she notices this person is attracted to me, finds me appealing in a sexual way, I’m going to use that to my benefit. It’s more of a manipulative thing than anything._


This keeps getting weirder and weirder.




> For his part, Mazouz corroborated the sentiment with an emphasis *on Bruce and Ivy’s new relationship resembling siblings moreso than anything else:*
> _They’re definitely going to have a relationship with each other. It’s not going to be a romantic one, necessarily. It’s going to be more of a sister figure to him. They’ll be very involved with each other. And they will have major influences in each others lives. She will be a major part of his life, especially towards the middle of this season._


And she's not going to have any powers.

For the rest,

Read More: 'Gotham' S3 Poison Ivy Won't Have Any Sexuality or Powers | http://comicsalliance.com/gotham-say...ckback=tsmclip

----------


## Frontier

So it's...unintentional seduction  :Stick Out Tongue: ? 

A sibling relationship between Bruce and Ivy might be interesting to see bleed over into the Batman and Ivy dynamic, if weird given how that dynamic has sometimes been depicted. 

It feels odd that they've gone to the trouble of justifying aging her up, yet not giving her any powers as well  :Confused: .

----------


## RedQueen

The aging her up is creepy. Kind of reminds me of the whole Arisia and Hal Jordan thing, how she used her ring to age herself up so she could be an adult to be his girlfriend. They aged Ivy up so she could be sexy I guess? I wish they could have made it simpler like her being Ivy Pepper's older sister, Pamela Isley or something, and not take this turn to get to the Poison Ivy story sooner. They gotta be real careful how they approach things because a 13 year old mind in an adult body could make for some bizarre and uncomfortable stories.

But good casting at least. She's definitely got the look. It's going to be interesting with her new relationship with Bruce. 

I think the casting and actress is great but I'm weary story wise because it's just bizarre with the choices they've made but I'm definitely gonna give it a go because live action Poison Ivy of course.

----------


## lalalei2001

Poison Ivy's very first appearance is pretty funny, looking back on it. She was one of four female villains who had never been seen before--the other three were Dragon Fly, Silken Spider, and Tiger Moth--and she wanted to grow like poison ivy in the public's mind and be declared the number 1 female criminal in the world compared to them.

She... succeeded, shall we say. The other three only appeared again in 2007, 41 years after their debut in 1966, twice in 2008, and never again.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Poison Ivy's very first appearance is pretty funny, looking back on it. She was one of four female villains who had never been seen before--the other three were Dragon Fly, Silken Spider, and Tiger Moth--and she wanted to grow like poison ivy in the public's mind and be declared the number 1 female criminal in the world compared to them.
> 
> She... succeeded, shall we say. The other three only appeared again in 2007, 41 years after their debut in 1966, twice in 2008, and never again.


Those three had an Easter Egg devoted in them in 1995's _Shadow of the Bat Annual #3_ focusing on Ivy's first encounter with Bruce in the Year One continuity. I had no idea they appeared again in 2007 and 2008 lol

Now that I think of it, it would be a cool nod to have the Sporelings take on the Silken Spider, Tiger Moth and Dragon Fly monikers.

----------


## lalalei2001

> Those three had an Easter Egg devoted in them in 1995's _Shadow of the Bat Annual #3_ focusing on Ivy's first encounter with Bruce in the Year One continuity. I had no idea they appeared again in 2007 and 2008 lol
> 
> Now that I think of it, it would be a cool nod to have the Sporelings take on the Silken Spider, Tiger Moth and Dragon Fly monikers.


Yeah, apparently they were working as League of Assassin members.

I also find it funny that they're all named after insects but the one who beat them all is named after a plant XD That was probably on purpose.

----------


## Confuzzled

For all you Ivy fans buying the _Cycle of Life and Death_ TPB that is out today, Amy Chu said she will retweet anyone posting a photo of themselves with their TPB at their local comic book store and the hashtag #moredcpoisonivy

https://twitter.com/AmyChu/status/773506225799659520

A reminder that sales of the TPB are going to determine the chances of an Ivy Rebirth ongoing.

----------


## buck135

> For all you Ivy fans buying the _Cycle of Life and Death_ TPB that is out today, Amy Chu said she will retweet anyone posting a photo of themselves with their TPB at their local comic book store and the hashtag #moredcpoisonivy
> 
> https://twitter.com/AmyChu/status/773506225799659520
> 
> A reminder that sales of the TPB are going to determine the chances of an Ivy Rebirth ongoing.


For some reason I had this and Batman Arkham: Poison Ivy (ISBN 140126445X) preordered with Amazon since July, but they say the release date is next Tuesday. I'm looking forward to receiving them just the same.

----------


## Confuzzled

> For some reason I had this and Batman Arkham: Poison Ivy (ISBN 140126445X) preordered with Amazon since July, but they say the release date is next Tuesday. I'm looking forward to receiving them just the same.


Did you receive it?  :Smile:  Hope you enjoyed it.

----------


## Atlanta96

> For all you Ivy fans buying the _Cycle of Life and Death_ TPB that is out today, Amy Chu said she will retweet anyone posting a photo of themselves with their TPB at their local comic book store and the hashtag #moredcpoisonivy
> 
> https://twitter.com/AmyChu/status/773506225799659520
> 
> A reminder that sales of the TPB are going to determine the chances of an Ivy Rebirth ongoing.


The Omega Men trade was a pretty big success despite being one of the lowest selling DC books, so I'm optimistic about Ivy doing well. I think I'll buy the trade myself next week, it looks like a good balance of Ivy's connection to nature, her sexiness, and her relationship with human life.

----------


## buck135

> Did you receive it?  Hope you enjoyed it.


I received both books thanks. I bought the six individual issues of Cycle of Life and Death as they were released as well as the variant and second pressing of the first issue. I wanted to support this series in hopes that there will be others. The TP just contains the complete story as well as some sketches at the end of the book including one I've never seen before with Harley and Ivy on what appears to be Batgirl's motorcycle.

The Batman Arkham: Poison Ivy TP features a very good selection of Ivy's best stories over the past 50 years. There are some I would have substituted for others, but overall I recommend it to fans and for those who want to see how the character has evolved.

My only disappointment regarding both books is there is no text at all. Something such as a forward from Amy Chu would have been nice. Just an acknowledgement that Ivy even turned 50 this year would have been welcome.

----------


## Confuzzled

> The Omega Men trade was a pretty big success despite being one of the lowest selling DC books, so I'm optimistic about Ivy doing well. I think I'll buy the trade myself next week, it looks like a good balance of Ivy's connection to nature, her sexiness, and her relationship with human life.


You should, it's really good. An interesting insight into Pam's intelligence, innovation and complex morality. And she just happens to be hot.  :Smile:

----------


## Confuzzled

> I received both books thanks. I bought the six individual issues of Cycle of Life and Death as they were released as well as the variant and second pressing of the first issue. I wanted to support this series in hopes that there will be others. The TP just contains the complete story as well as some sketches at the end of the book including one I've never seen before with Harley and Ivy on what appears to be Batgirl's motorcycle.
> 
> The Batman Arkham: Poison Ivy TP features a very good selection of Ivy's best stories over the past 50 years. There are some I would have substituted for others, but overall I recommend it to fans and for those who want to see how the character has evolved.
> 
> My only disappointment regarding both books is there is no text at all. Something such as a forward from Amy Chu would have been nice. Just an acknowledgement that Ivy even turned 50 this year would have been welcome.


Agreed on all points. Regarding the foreword, I think Amy Chu would have been really up for it but DC just did not invest that much into both the TPB releases. For a book whose sales are going to determine the chances of an ongoing, they hardly marketed the Cycle TPB. Jim Lee announced on Twitter that it was out in stores much after the fact, when a fan literally plead with him to at least acknowledge it on a public platform so that there could be some awareness. The good news though is that according to Amy Chu, a lot of store owners said there was a _lot_ of interest in the TPB. Really hoping it leads to an Ivy Rebirth title.

----------


## GamerSlyRatchet

New images of Ivy from the ''Gotham'' episode "Burn the Witch".

----------


## buck135

> Really hoping it leads to an Ivy Rebirth title.


At this point just an appearance in Rebirth would be nice. Other than Harley Quinn and DC Bombshells, you don't see her at all.

----------


## Confuzzled

> At this point just an appearance in Rebirth would be nice. Other than Harley Quinn and DC Bombshells, you don't see her at all.


I think she is being held up by _All-Star Batman_, where they are going to reveal her new design. Once the solicitations for the Ivy-centric issue comes out, I think they will begin to roll out news of her other appearances in the main universe.

----------


## Atlanta96

> I think she is being held up by _All-Star Batman_, where they are going to reveal her new design. Once the solicitations for the Ivy-centric issue comes out, I think they will begin to roll out news of her other appearances in the main universe.


They're giving her a new design? I wish they'd just use the design from her miniseries or her Pre-Flashpoint look. But anything is better than the New 52 look I guess, seeing her grow branches and stuff from her costume always looked stupid IMO.

----------


## Thirteen

Her appearance in Batgirl (Rebirth) #6 looks like a throwback to her old-school leotard albeit with a tattoo-y treatment of the arm vines.  Burnside Ivy?

----------


## buck135

> Her appearance in Batgirl (Rebirth) #6 looks like a throwback to her old-school leotard albeit with a tattoo-y treatment of the arm vines.  Burnside Ivy?


Ugh. Her look in the Cycle of Life and Death was perfect. This looks worse than the New 52 outfit.

----------


## Atlanta96

> Ugh. Her look in the Cycle of Life and Death was perfect. This looks worse than the New 52 outfit.


Maybe it's just the cover artist who doesn't get the costume. Hopefully it will look better everywhere else.

----------


## TsukiSentinel

> Ugh. Her look in the Cycle of Life and Death was perfect. This looks worse than the New 52 outfit.


But it's her OG costume?

----------


## buck135

> But it's her OG costume?


Yes, but it is still a step back imo. The onesie leggings throw me, and being next to the current Batgirl outfit which I think is the worst that was ever created for the character doesn't help. 

This is how I'd like to see Ivy going forward.

----------


## TsukiSentinel

> Yes, but it is still a step back imo. The onesie leggings throw me, and being next to the current Batgirl outfit which I think is the worst that was ever created for the character doesn't help. 
> 
> This is how I'd like to see Ivy going forward.


Yah, the shoes are ridiculous.

----------


## Atlanta96

> Yes, but it is still a step back imo. The onesie leggings throw me, and being next to the current Batgirl outfit which I think is the worst that was ever created for the character doesn't help. 
> 
> This is how I'd like to see Ivy going forward.


I won't argue with that. I think that's the best Ivy has ever looked, even more than her Pre-Flashpoint costume. Clay Mann's art doesn't hurt either, he's amazing.

----------


## buck135

> Clay Mann's art doesn't hurt either, he's amazing.


Absolutely.

----------


## darkseidpwns

> I won't argue with that. I think that's the best Ivy has ever looked, even more than her Pre-Flashpoint costume. Clay Mann's art doesn't hurt either, he's amazing.


Well then, I guess Ivy fans are in luck because Manapul just confirmed that she's the main villain of the first arc of Trinity.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Well then, I guess Ivy fans are in luck because Manapul just confirmed that she's the main villain of the first arc of Trinity.


More on that:




The idea of Trinity vs. Ivy really, REALLY intrigues me. And the art is to die for. Not sure what he means by her being a "galactical" villain though.

Also, how are the art duties between Mann and Manapul distributed for Trinity? Is it an alternate issue thing or is Mann drawing only for a few arcs?

----------


## Confuzzled

Gotham Ivy Pepper Featurette:

----------


## buck135

> Gotham Ivy Pepper Featurette:


Three seasons in...now I have a reason to watch.

----------


## Osiris-Rex

> Gotham Ivy Pepper Featurette:


Sad for Clare Foley.  Glad for Poison Ivy.  Now maybe they will actually start doing something with Poison Ivy on Gotham instead of just being Catgirl's seldom seen sidekick.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> Three seasons in...now I have a reason to watch.


Yes! I feel the same wayshe's my favorite batman villain so. also glad to hear about Trinity! Hope they do her justiceI think DC has big plans for heryay!

----------


## buck135

> Yes! I feel the same wayshe's my favorite batman villain so. also glad to hear about Trinity! Hope they do her justiceI think DC has big plans for heryay!


I picked up the first issue of Trinity yesterday to support her eventual inclusion. Ivy is my favorite villain as well. Looking forward to tomorrow's episode of Gotham.

----------


## buck135

Wow Maggie Geha was perfect. I'm actually disappointed she is being used in this show now because she would be terrific with Margot Robbie in the current wave of DC films.

----------


## Punisher007

Honestly while I liked the actress, I found the whole thing to be rather cringey myself.  Artificially aging the character up so that you can specifically focus on her sex appeal, it's just awkward and bleh.  And this show already has plenty of femme fatale female characters, so it's not like she's filling some niche.  And her mental state also makes it uncomfortable.

I'd have preferred that she just get her powers , but stay young and we see her progression over time.

----------


## TsukiSentinel

> Honestly while I liked the actress, I found the whole thing to be rather cringey myself.  Artificially aging the character up so that you can specifically focus on her sex appeal, it's just awkward and bleh.  And this show already has plenty of femme fatale female characters, so it's not like she's filling some niche.  And her mental state also makes it uncomfortable.
> 
> I'd have preferred that she just get her powers , but stay young and we see her progression over time.


Name me one femme fatale(not named Ivy) currently on the show.

----------


## Frontier

> Name me one femme fatale(not named Ivy) currently on the show.


Barbara and Tabitha?

----------


## TsukiSentinel

> Barbara and Tabitha?


Barbara tries to be, but fails because Jim isn't into her. Tabitha isn't, even under the loosest definition of the term.

----------


## Agent Z

> Honestly while I liked the actress, I found the whole thing to be rather cringey myself.  Artificially aging the character up so that you can specifically focus on her sex appeal, it's just awkward and bleh.  And this show already has plenty of femme fatale female characters, so it's not like she's filling some niche.  And her mental state also makes it uncomfortable.
> 
> I'd have preferred that she just get her powers , but stay young and we see her progression over time.


I don't get why they didn't just make Ivy a legacy character like they did with Scarecrow. 




> Barbara tries to be, but fails because Jim isn't into her. Tabitha isn't, even under the loosest definition of the term.


In the first episode of season 2, Barbara is able to seduce an Arkham inmate into being her body guard. A femme fatale doesn't have to 100% successful to be a femme fatale.

----------


## TsukiSentinel

> In the first episode of season 2, Barbara is able to seduce an Arkham inmate into being her body guard. A femme fatale doesn't have to 100% successful to be a femme fatale.


Fair enough, but that's still only one. The only other one was Silver, but she's not on the show right now.

----------


## Stormcrow

Amy Chu was a guest at La Mole Comic Con in Mexico City this past weekend and got a ton of Poison Ivy support! Bobbie Chase was there as well, so hopefully the higher ups are taking notice even if she's not in editorial anymore.

----------


## lalalei2001

According to World's Finest 251-252 Ivy's civilian name was originally Lillian Rose, and the person who betrayed her wasn't the Floronic Man, but a guy named Marc LeGrande.

----------


## buck135

> According to World's Finest 251-252 Ivy's civilian name was originally Lillian Rose, and the person who betrayed her wasn't the Floronic Man, but a guy named Marc LeGrande.


Her story changed several times. The origin story most people are familiar with is detailed in Secret Origins #36 (January 1989). This later changed with the New 52.

----------


## buck135

> Honestly while I liked the actress, I found the whole thing to be rather cringey myself.  Artificially aging the character up so that you can specifically focus on her sex appeal, it's just awkward and bleh.  And this show already has plenty of femme fatale female characters, so it's not like she's filling some niche.  And her mental state also makes it uncomfortable.
> 
> I'd have preferred that she just get her powers , but stay young and we see her progression over time.


Her character has been a bland sidekick to Selina. In this episode, Ivy realizes her ability for seduction and acts upon those who disregard plants. Without aging the character, that couldn't happen. It was perfect.

----------


## Confuzzled

> According to World's Finest 251-252 Ivy's civilian name was originally Lillian Rose, and the person who betrayed her wasn't the Floronic Man, but a guy named Marc LeGrande.


As buck said, her most famous origin comes from Neil Gaiman in Secret Origins #36. Gaiman had previously established Pamela's connection to Floronic Man/Jason Woodrue in his _Black Orchid_ mini. "Lillian" was later adopted as Pamela Isley's (seldom used) middle name.

----------


## Thirteen

I haven't watched nearly enough to know this (and I have some shame for that) but on SuperHero Girls do they actually call her *Poison* Ivy?  Or just Ivy?  The former sounds a bit more villainous or unsavory given the good girl portrayal I have seen.
http://play.dcsuperherogirls.com/en-...eroes/ivy.html
[IMG]https://i.*****.com/vi/l0H3kjLqrco/maxresdefault.jpg[/IMG]

----------


## Frontier

I think they've called her Poison Ivy a few times, more noticeably when she was Hero of the Month, but she's more generally referred to as Ivy. 

It's not like Killer Frost where they've outright removed the "killer" part of her name.

----------


## nj06

Can someone give me the run down on Poison Ivy post DcnU 52. I know she was a member of the BoP, but was she actually heroic or was it a ruse? is she back to being a full time villain again?

----------


## buck135

> Can someone give me the run down on Poison Ivy post DcnU 52. I know she was a member of the BoP, but was she actually heroic or was it a ruse? is she back to being a full time villain again?


She is set to appear in Trinity as well as All-Star Batman. She shows up here and there in Harley Quinn and DC Bombshells, but nothing else that I'm aware of since Rebirth has been launched.

----------


## Lucas 35

Manapul Ivy

https://www.instagram.com/p/BLHQgD1gIKE/

----------


## Atlanta96

> Manapul Ivy
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BLHQgD1gIKE/


Yee! Thank god they finally ditched the New 52 look. And Manapul's take on Ivy is more than enough to keep me interested in Trinity. Can't wait to see the new costume in Harley Quinn.

----------


## MentalManipulator

Yes I agree! She looks perfect ! Can't wait

----------


## Confuzzled

> Manapul Ivy
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BLHQgD1gIKE/


I'm in love. Can't wait.

----------


## Confuzzled

Greg Rucka teased the possibility of a Wonder Woman/Poison Ivy story in mind at NYCC's Wonder Woman 75th Anniversary panel:




> _Asked via Twitter about the possibility of a Wonder Woman/Poison Ivy team-up, Rucka said there’s a great story to be told starring the two characters, but he’s not telling that story this year._

----------


## darkseidpwns

Uh why do Ivy fans ask every writer out there about her?

----------


## MarquisAsh

She also will appear in the batgirl story soon

----------


## Agent Z

> Uh why do Ivy fans ask every writer out there about her?


Every writer? I certainly haven't seen this be the case. Even then, it's not uncommon for fans to ask writers their thoughts on certain characters.

----------


## darkseidpwns

> Every writer? I certainly haven't seen this be the case. Even then, it's not uncommon for fans to ask writers their thoughts on certain characters.


An equivalent to that would be asking Tom King if he has any plans for Dr Poison in Batman or Tomasi if he has plans to use Cheshire in Superman. Besides Rucka has used her in Tec in the past, so  not exactly much point to asking about his thoughts.

----------


## Agent Z

> An equivalent to that would be asking Tom King if he has any plans for Dr Poison in Batman or Tomasi if he has plans to use Cheshire in Superman. Besides Rucka has used her in Tec in the past, so  not exactly much point to asking about his thoughts.


Eh, I don't see the harm in asking they'd like to use a certain character from a different franchise. Us fans talk about that stuff all the time with each other.

----------


## darkseidpwns

> Eh, I don't see the harm in asking they'd like to use a certain character from a different franchise. Us fans talk about that stuff all the time with each other.


Not harmful, I just find it bizarre.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Not harmful, I just find it bizarre.


What I find bizarre is some of the hatred directed towards the Poison Ivy fanclub, especially on Twitter. Well, maybe not that bizarre, as most of Ivy's fans there seem to be young women, so trolls gotta troll when they assume targets as vulnerable. Add in the opposition to let her develop anything beyond Harley's fetishized support or a non-threatening seductress whom they could then dismiss as too silly to sit at the Boys Club Rogue's Gallery, and you get constant harassment of the fans 24/7. I'm not even overstating when I say "harassment", the shit that the leader of Poison Ivy League receives on Twitter is appalling, especially when all she's trying to do is ensure better focus and development for her beloved character. Insane.

----------


## darkseidpwns

> What I find bizarre is some of the hatred directed towards the Poison Ivy fanclub, especially on Twitter. Well, maybe not that bizarre, as most of Ivy's fans there seem to be young women, so trolls gotta troll when they assume targets as vulnerable.


Is this directed towards me? and trolling isn't bizarre, its just simply trolling.

----------


## buck135

> What I find bizarre is some of the hatred directed towards the Poison Ivy fanclub, especially on Twitter. Well, maybe not that bizarre, as most of Ivy's fans there seem to be young women, so trolls gotta troll when they assume targets as vulnerable. Add in the opposition to let her develop anything beyond Harley's fetishized support or a non-threatening seductress whom they could then dismiss as too silly to sit at the Boys Club Rogue's Gallery, and you get constant harassment of the fans 24/7. I'm not even overstating when I say "harassment", the shit that the leader of Poison Ivy League receives on Twitter is appalling, especially when all she's trying to do is ensure better focus and development for her beloved character. Insane.


I didn't know about that. I'm glad I never had anything to do with Twitter, Facebook, Snapchat, etc. Unfortunately if there is a comment section for anything, there's bound to be negativity. I've been a huge fan of Ivy since the Animated Series. Hopefully her character continues to develop well into the future.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Is this directed towards me?


No, unless you are one of those trolls.




> I didn't know about that. I'm glad I never had anything to do with Twitter, Facebook, Snapchat, etc. Unfortunately if there is a comment section for anything, there's bound to be negativity. I've been a huge fan of Ivy since the Animated Series. Hopefully her character continues to develop well into the future.


It flared after DC officially congratulated Poison Ivy fans for the mini and said it was their push on Twitter during the #DCYou campaign that greenlit the book. Since then, there has been a constant rain of hate and vitriol on the Poison Ivy League (a group of Poison Ivy fans on Twitter) on the social media platform and in the comments section of comic book sites liked Bleeding Cool. Usually I stay out of these places too but it was DC that publicly acknowledged how Poison Ivy fans made the mini happen with their demand on social media. So if campaigning is the way to get Ivy more focus and development, then more power to the fans.

----------


## darkseidpwns

> No, unless you are one of those trolls.
> 
> 
> 
> It flared after DC officially congratulated Poison Ivy fans for the mini and said it was their push on Twitter during the #DCYou campaign that greenlit the book. Since then, there has been a constant rain of hate and vitriol on the Poison Ivy League (a group of Poison Ivy fans on Twitter) on the social media platform and in the comments section of comic book sites liked Bleeding Cool. Usually I stay out of these places too but it was DC that publicly acknowledged how Poison Ivy fans made the mini happen with their demand on social media. So if campaigning is the way to get Ivy more focus and development, then more power to the fans.


Um why would I be? I've only seen PIL on Bleeding and there I dont post at all.

----------


## buck135

> It flared after DC officially congratulated Poison Ivy fans for the mini and said it was their push on Twitter during the #DCYou campaign that greenlit the book. Since then, there has been a constant rain of hate and vitriol on the Poison Ivy League (a group of Poison Ivy fans on Twitter) on the social media platform and in the comments section of comic book sites liked Bleeding Cool. Usually I stay out of these places too but it was DC that publicly acknowledged how Poison Ivy fans made the mini happen with their demand on social media. So if campaigning is the way to get Ivy more focus and development, then more power to the fans.


Thanks for the explanation Confuzzled. I showed my support by not only purchasing all six issues and the TPB, but the second pressing and variant for issue one as well. It's good to know that these people helped get the mini series launched. The story wasnt exactly on par with the Watchmen, but the artwork is magnificent and makes up for the shortcomings.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Thanks for the explanation Confuzzled. I showed my support by not only purchasing all six issues and the TPB, but the second pressing and variant for issue one as well. It's good to know that these people helped get the mini series launched. The story wasn’t exactly on par with the Watchmen, but the artwork is magnificent and makes up for the shortcomings.


I enjoyed the story for it was. A much needed character showcase for Pamela Isley, with a fun murder mystery thrown in. I think it succeeded in reestablishing that Poison Ivy is a multifaceted character whose potential still hasn't been harnessed in its entirety. DC can make her their Magneto if they really committed to her character. 

Or maybe Emma Frost would be a better comparison but I truly think Ivy's motivations can have the same pathos as Magneto's, AND she can have complexities similar to Frost's. As I said, multifaceted.  :Smile:

----------


## Confuzzled

DC Superhero Girls is proving to be a treasure trove for Poison Ivy merchandising collectors. She is a part of their Lego High School Playset:

----------


## buck135

> I enjoyed the story for it was. A much needed character showcase for Pamela Isley, with a fun murder mystery thrown in. I think it succeeded in reestablishing that Poison Ivy is a multifaceted character whose potential still hasn't been harnessed in its entirety. DC can make her their Magneto if they really committed to her character. 
> 
> Or maybe Emma Frost would be a better comparison but I truly think Ivy's motivations can have the same pathos as Magneto's, AND she can have complexities similar to Frost's. As I said, multifaceted.


Very well put.

----------


## TsukiSentinel

> I enjoyed the story for it was. A much needed character showcase for Pamela Isley, with a fun murder mystery thrown in. I think it succeeded in reestablishing that Poison Ivy is a multifaceted character whose potential still hasn't been harnessed in its entirety. DC can make her their Magneto if they really committed to her character. 
> 
> Or maybe Emma Frost would be a better comparison but I truly think Ivy's motivations can have the same pathos as Magneto's, AND she can have complexities similar to Frost's. As I said, multifaceted.


I doubt it. Nature doesn't inspire the same amount of sympathy and empathy that people do. Magneto was a holocaust survivor, and this caused him to develop an oppression complex revolving around his identity as a mutant.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I doubt it. Nature doesn't inspire the same amount of sympathy and empathy that people do. Magneto was a holocaust survivor, and this caused him to develop an oppression complex revolving around his identity as a mutant.


Greg Rucka had Ivy conserving not just Robinson Park in No Man's Land, but also the city's orphan children. And she was able to barter continued control over the park (like her own little Genosha in the middle of Gotham) with food to sustain the quake affected survivors. Generally speaking, Ivy too has a tragic backstory (whether it's the Woodrue origin or the father murdering her mother one) and her entire MO is using her abilities to protect the docile and vulnerable (nature, children, Harley) to prevent them from suffering the same fate. Pam, under good writers, is shown as empathetic and known to employ the marginalized and discarded, being the only one to see their worth and offer them dignity, compassion and sanctuary.

I've always found her to be a lot like Lady Eboshi from _Princess Mononoke_ in that regard, but obviously on the other side of the Man/Industrialisation vs. Nature war.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Confuzzled

Funko included Poison Ivy in their very first wave of _Batman: The Animated Series_ figures, and she's as adorable as expected:

----------


## Green Ghost

> Greg Rucka had Ivy conserving not just Robinson Park in No Man's Land, but also the city's orphan children. And she was able to barter continued control over the park (like her own little Genosha in the middle of Gotham) with food to sustain the quake affected survivors. Generally speaking, Ivy too has a tragic backstory (whether it's the Woodrue origin or the father murdering her mother one) and her entire MO is using her abilities to protect the docile and vulnerable (nature, children, Harley) to prevent them from suffering the same fate. Pam, under good writers, is shown as empathetic and known to employ the marginalized and discarded, being the only one to see their worth and offer them dignity, compassion and sanctuary.


Exactly! That sums up what makes Poison Ivy a compelling character. Hopefully they'll collect all the Rucka/Orphan stuff in one trade someday...

----------


## TsukiSentinel

> Greg Rucka had Ivy conserving not just Robinson Park in No Man's Land, but also the city's orphan children. And she was able to barter continued control over the park (like her own little Genosha in the middle of Gotham) with food to sustain the quake affected survivors. Generally speaking, Ivy too has a tragic backstory (whether it's the Woodrue origin or the father murdering her mother one) and her entire MO is using her abilities to protect the docile and vulnerable (nature, children, Harley) to prevent them from suffering the same fate. Pam, under good writers, is shown as empathetic and known to employ the marginalized and discarded, being the only one to see their worth and offer them dignity, compassion and sanctuary.
> 
> I've always found her to be a lot like Lady Eboshi from _Princess Mononoke_ in that regard, but obviously on the other side of the Man/Industrialisation vs. Nature war.


I didn't read that run, so perhaps I'm just ignorant on the matter, but how does any of that relate to her status as a supervillain? How does any of that generate sympathy and empathy for her? 

If anything that kind of defeats the purpose of her, as I see it. I always thought Ivy was a nature-lover who hated her species, and viewed herself as more plant than human, yet still longed for motherhood. 

Having her protect orphans sounds unrelated. It humanizes her, but that's not exactly the goal with Ivy. The goal, as I saw it, was to keep her humanity, but in a twisted sense, because she only identified with plants.

It would make a lot more sense to have her create an entirely new species that worship her as their mother/creator, and Batman is faced with the moral dilemma of having to destroy them. 

Again, maybe I'm just missing something because I haven't read the story, but it makes no sense for her to give a damn about orphans. To me it reads like a watering-down of her character, not the addition of a new layer. 

Here's another possibility - she rescues orphans, but only so she can turn them into plant hybrids like herself.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I didn't read that run, so perhaps I'm just ignorant on the matter, but how does any of that relate to her status as a supervillain? How does any of that generate sympathy and empathy for her? 
> 
> If anything that kind of defeats the purpose of her, as I see it. I always thought Ivy was a nature-lover who hated her species, and viewed herself as more plant than human, yet still longed for motherhood. 
> 
> Having her protect orphans sounds unrelated. It humanizes her, but that's not exactly the goal with Ivy. The goal, as I saw it, was to keep her humanity, but in a twisted sense, because she only identified with plants.
> 
> It would make a lot more sense to have her create an entirely new species that worship her as their mother/creator, and Batman is faced with the moral dilemma of having to destroy them. 
> 
> Again, maybe I'm just missing something because I haven't read the story, but it makes no sense for her to give a damn about orphans. To me it reads like a watering-down of her character, not the addition of a new layer. 
> ...


It was a pretty defining story for Ivy in the 90's and early 00's. The 90's in general saw Ivy's depiction as a nature goddess wronged by man's evil excesses gain popularity. Her characterization in the mini draws from those stories as well. Regarding plant hybrids, she had created those as well in NML, to protect the park and the children from raiders. 

Also if she were a true misanthrope, then her affection for Harley Quinn and admiration for Selina makes zero sense. After all, in Neil Gaiman's origin she started out as a villain solely because of her obsession with Batman. She suffered trauma and disillusionment after her transformation/Woodrue's betrayal, but it's better not to have her forsake mankind altogether and eventually get back to reconnecting with her humanity with the help of the individuals she learns to care for. 

However, the mini did a good job of substituting the orphans with the Sporelings and showed a glimpse of how Poison Ivy was capable of creating her own children/family/race even when she had trouble establishing functional relationships with actual human beings. Still though, no reason she can't have both. Comparing her to _Game of Thrones_'s Daenerys Targaryean, if the hybrids are her dragons (her own kind of her own creation), the orphans and other marginalized groups she takes under her wing can be her Dothraki/Unsullied (fiercely loyal discriminated groups who see her as a maternal figure for sustaining them).

----------


## buck135

It's nice to see that Maggie Geha will reappear in Gotham next week after a two week hiatus. I may be biased, but her three minutes of screen time in episode two has provided the most enjoyment I've received from this show throughout the entire series.

----------


## Confuzzled

Whoa, looks like the TPB for Cycle of Life and Death was a SMASH! According to icv2, it ranked at #17 for September and is believed to have sold an estimated 3,175 copies. Compare that to Midnighter's debut volume, which folks at DC had set as the parameter for success for Ivy's TPB: 1,678 copies. Meaning Ivy's TPB almost DOUBLED Midnighter's TPB sales, _despite costing $2 more!_

And the good news doesn't stop there for Ivy fans. The collection of Ivy stories (Batman Arkham Poison Ivy), performed admirably as well, moving 2,095 copies and placing at #34 despite costing almost $20! For a character who never had a solo before and never got TPB, Ivy made crazy bank for DC just in one month alone. I think it's safe to expect an announcement of a Rebirth ongoing pretty soon now.  :Smile:

----------


## Confuzzled

Commission by Andrew Robinson

----------


## Atlanta96

Trinity #5 cover. Description doesn't say anything about her, but the cover alone is exciting. Ivy, in her classic costume, being shown as a real threat to the DC Trinity. I feel like this is the first time since the reboot that we've seen the real Poison Ivy.
IMG_5962.jpg

----------


## Chrysalis_Changling

it really feels like poison ivy has just been demoted to Harley's little toy and nothing more

so it's nice to see her outside harley quinn's book

----------


## buck135

> Whoa, looks like the TPB for Cycle of Life and Death was a SMASH! According to icv2, it ranked at #17 for September and is believed to have sold an estimated 3,175 copies. Compare that to Midnighter's debut volume, which folks at DC had set as the parameter for success for Ivy's TPB: 1,678 copies. Meaning Ivy's TPB almost DOUBLED Midnighter's TPB sales, _despite costing $2 more!_
> 
> And the good news doesn't stop there for Ivy fans. The collection of Ivy stories (Batman Arkham Poison Ivy), performed admirably as well, moving 2,095 copies and placing at #34 despite costing almost $20! For a character who never had a solo before and never got TPB, Ivy made crazy bank for DC just in one month alone. I think it's safe to expect an announcement of a Rebirth ongoing pretty soon now.


Excellent news. Thanks Confuzzled. I wasn't thrilled with Ivy's blink and you miss her appearance on tonight's Gotham, but I can't say I'm surprised. The show is dreadful.

----------


## TsukiSentinel

> The show is dreadful.


Stop hating on a show you can't appreciate. Gotham is the best DC show currently airing IMO and I'd appreciate it if you stopped hating on it. I respect that you have a right to your own opinion, but why can't people like you simply allow others to enjoy the show without us always having to go on the defensive?

----------


## buck135

> Stop hating on a show you can't appreciate. Gotham is the best DC show currently airing IMO and I'd appreciate it if you stopped hating on it. I respect that you have a right to your own opinion, but why can't people like you simply allow others to enjoy the show without us always having to go on the defensive?


I have made no attempt to suade anyones opinion regarding this polarizing television show. Obviously there are enough people that enjoy it which is fine. I despise the NFL even more and I'm in the minority there. I can pinpoint all of the reasons why, but it's easier to just use adjectives such as dreadful which of course is just my opinion.

----------


## Londo Bellian

Ivy and Mongul?

Legit 4 me.

----------


## Confuzzled

I'm interested in seeing what kind of deal Ivy has made with Mongol to take down the Trinity. Hopefully not something unimaginative like just in it for the $$$ like the reason for her participation in _Hush_.

----------


## Frontier

That Manapul Ivy...simply spectacular  :Wink: .

And that leave beard  :Stick Out Tongue: .

----------


## buck135

> That Manapul Ivy...simply spectacular .
> 
> And that leave beard .


She does look great. I'm looking forward to issue 3.

----------


## buck135

> She does look great. I'm looking forward to issue 3.


Okay well since Ivy is only pictured on a single page of issue 3, I'm looking forward to issue 4. She certainly will be featured more there.

----------


## Thirteen

> Trinity #5 cover. Description doesn't say anything about her, but the cover alone is exciting. Ivy, in her classic costume, being shown as a real threat to the DC Trinity. I feel like this is the first time since the reboot that we've seen the real Poison Ivy.
> IMG_5962.jpg


Poison Ivy working with the Black Mercy plant from "For the Man Who Has Everything" iconic tale...OHBOY, that's sacred ground there.  Don't F*CK it up!

----------


## Lucas 35

Tula Lotay's All-Star Batman #7 cover

----------


## Frontier

Ivy's looking good  :Big Grin: .

Though are we in for another redesign/new costume? I can't tell if that's a bodysuit or a swimsuit  :Stick Out Tongue: .

----------


## Atlanta96

> Ivy's looking good .
> 
> Though are we in for another redesign/new costume? I can't tell if that's a bodysuit or a swimsuit .


At first I thought it was a swimsuit with her arms and legs exposed, but then I realized they were a different color than her face and cleavage and decided they were gloves and boots, but she's not wearing thigh high boots...gaaah! Yeah, stick with the design from Trinity.

----------


## buck135

> Yeah, stick with the design from Trinity.


I couldn't agree more.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Ivy's looking good .
> 
> Though are we in for another redesign/new costume? I can't tell if that's a bodysuit or a swimsuit .


I think it's a body suit with regular heels.

I like the look on the cover because Tula Lotay makes it work, but I can see it being a mess when more conventional artists try to interpret it. Anyway, too soon to make a call. Need to see the actual interiors first.

----------


## Confuzzled

Francis Manapul showed some unused Trinity cover layouts on his Instagram.

----------


## PwrdOn

Whenever they try to tweak Ivy's look they always seem to end up back at some variation of her original costume, and I'm okay with that.  It's classic, it's iconic, and it suits her.  The nature of her character allows them to experiment with different looks for specific stories, but they should keep that basic costume as the default look.

----------


## Frontier

"chestnut" red hair? Man, there are a lot of varieties of certain hair colors  :Stick Out Tongue: .

----------


## vitaminbee

> Tula Lotay's All-Star Batman #7 cover


This is a better look than the other cover on the previous page.

----------


## Confuzzled

> This is a better look than the other cover on the previous page.


Just goes to show how subjective these things are.

Also, how telling is it that none of the people posting in the Poison Ivy Appreciation thread even bother to acknowledge the fact that she's still appearing in _Harley Quinn_.  :Big Grin:

----------


## Frontier

> Just goes to show how subjective these things are.
> 
> Also, how telling is it that none of the people posting in the Poison Ivy Appreciation thread even bother to acknowledge the fact that she's still appearing in _Harley Quinn_.


Well, probably because most of her appearance in that book (from what I recall) are just hijinks with Harley and cute romantic stuff, which while fine on their own (and part of the Harley and Ivy dynamic) doesn't give much of substance to talk about in a Poison Ivy thread  :Stick Out Tongue: .

----------


## Confuzzled

> Well, probably because most of her appearance in that book (from what I recall) are just hijinks with Harley and cute romantic stuff, which while fine on their own (and part of the Harley and Ivy dynamic) doesn't give much of substance to talk about in a Poison Ivy thread .


Apparently some DC folks were heard saying that If people want more Ivy, they should then just purchase Harley Quinn. 

Pamela really needs a break from HQ, at least in the comics. I don't understand why Didio and co. are reluctant in letting her blossom as a solo character, especially considering the strong sales of her mini TPB.

----------


## Hi-Fi

Hey, guys.

What are some of the most epic and iconic Poison Ivy stories? I feel like those are rare. She's usually a small player in big stories, but I'm having a difficult time finding stuff focused on her as a villain. For instance, what's her most famous arc/ appearence?

----------


## buck135

> Apparently some DC folks were heard saying that If people want more Ivy, they should then just purchase Harley Quinn.


I only purchase the HQ issues Ivy is in.

----------


## buck135

> Hey, guys.
> 
> What are some of the most epic and iconic Poison Ivy stories? I feel like those are rare. She's usually a small player in big stories, but I'm having a difficult time finding stuff focused on her as a villain. For instance, what's her most famous arc/ appearence?


Poison Ivy: The Cycle of Life and Death TPB (ISBN-10: 1401264514). This contains the recent six part miniseries.

Batman Arkham: Poison Ivy TPB (ISBN-10: 140126445X). This is a recent collection of some of Ivy's best appearances.

Batman: Hush (ISBN-10: 1401223176). Ivy's look is terrific, but she is detained too easily in my opinion.

Gotham City Sirens Book One (ISBN-10: 1401251757) and Two (ISBN-10: 1401254128). Excellent artwork.

Birds of Prey: New 52 Volume One (ISBN-10: 1401236995) and Two (ISBN-10: 1401238130). I'm not thrilled with the New 52 look backstory for Ivy, but this is the best of the bunch.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Hey, guys.
> 
> What are some of the most epic and iconic Poison Ivy stories? I feel like those are rare. She's usually a small player in big stories, but I'm having a difficult time finding stuff focused on her as a villain. For instance, what's her most famous arc/ appearence?


_The Cycle of Life and Death_ TPB as buck said and _No Man's Land: Fruit of the Earth_ are musts. The latter is collected in _Batman: No Man's Land Volume 3_

There are also a number of excellent one-shots/annuals like Ann Nocenti's _Cast Shadows_, John Francis Moore's _Batman: Poison Ivy_, Gail Simone's _Batgirl Annual #2_ and Alan Grant's _Batman: Shadow of the Bat Annual #3_

----------


## darkeyes

One of my favorites is Detective Comic 823.

/And this is my first post!

----------


## Hi-Fi

Thanks for the suggestions!

----------


## Confuzzled

Francis Manapul has been posting some WIP Trinity panels featuring Ivy on his Instagram:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BNUdZj_A7Ys/
https://www.instagram.com/p/BNXEb9TgWbo/

----------


## Frontier

Nice to see Ivy seemingly enjoying herself (at least until Mongul shows up)  :Smile: .

----------


## Confuzzled

Having just watched _Moana_, I can now tell you who Ivy's new favorite Disney Princess is.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## buck135

There's an IOS/Android game called Batman: Arkham Underworld. I generally don't care for iPad games, but this one is addictive. In the game you control a villain and raid hideouts (CPU or other players). Today Ivy is listed as coming soon in the player selection screen. Needless to say I will be playing this game much more often now.

----------


## Confuzzled

> There's an IOS/Android game called Batman: Arkham Underworld. I generally don't care for iPad games, but this one is addictive. In the game you control a villain and raid hideouts (CPU or other players). Today Ivy is listed as coming soon in the player selection screen. Needless to say I will be playing this game much more often now.


Cool. Thanks for the heads up. It cracks me up that there is a Rogues' Gallery game but I guess another testament to the popularity of the Bat-Villains.

----------


## Confuzzled

A sneak peek at Ivy with Lois in _Trinity_

----------


## buck135

> Cool. Thanks for the heads up. It cracks me up that there is a Rogues' Gallery game but I guess another testament to the popularity of the Bat-Villains.


No question. I'm happy to oblige.

----------


## darkeyes

Hi everyone, being a Poison Ivy collector I thought I would post a link to my Ivy blog.  The blog mostly covers merchandise, not art or comics.  This is just a personal place to help me catalogue my collection and track upcoming items.  I thought it could be a recourse for anyone interested in what was out there related to Poison Ivy collectibles.  I am always adding items I come across and looking to purchase the items I have listed as not being in my collection.

http://poisonivycollection.blogspot.com/

----------


## buck135

> Hi everyone, being a Poison Ivy collector I thought I would post a link to my Ivy blog.  The blog mostly covers merchandise, not art or comics.  This is just a personal place to help me catalogue my collection and track upcoming items.  I thought it could be a recourse for anyone interested in what was out there related to Poison Ivy collectibles.  I am always adding items I come across and looking to purchase the items I have listed as not being in my collection.
> 
> http://poisonivycollection.blogspot.com/


Wow. That is an amazing collection. I'm doing the opposite and trying to catalogue all of her comic appearances. It's easier said than done, even with Comicvine.

----------


## darkeyes

> Wow. That is an amazing collection. I'm doing the opposite and trying to catalogue all of her comic appearances. It's easier said than done, even with Comicvine.


I thought about doing that, but then realized all the work it would take and decided to just concentrate on collectibles lol.  Are you building a website?  I'll post a link on my blog if you like.  It's nice to see Ivy getting some more exposure these days.  Good luck with that project!

----------


## buck135

I was actually hoping to create a book. I've been at it on and off for awhile now. I bought Harley Quinn #9 today which has Ivy as the Good Witch in a Wizard of Oz spoof. She's such a great character and has been used in so many different ways in so many different comics over the past 50 years.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I was actually hoping to create a book. I've been at it on and off for awhile now. I bought Harley Quinn #9 today which has Ivy as the Good Witch in a Wizard of Oz spoof. She's such a great character and has been used in so many different ways in so many different comics over the past 50 years.


Ivy's immense versatility has proven to be a boon _and_ a detriment in many ways. A boon because it has made her an evergreen character (no pun) who doesn't grow stale despite multiple appearances (sometimes in the same month) due to her many facets. A detriment because her admirers are kind of fractured into different factions. Some want her to be depicted as a more benevolent defender of The Green and the vulnerable, some want her to be a traditional, more ruthless villain, while others kind of just like her fooling around with Harley.

I wish some talented creator came along and managed to unify all these various aspects of the character and in turn, unify her fanbase, through a groundbreaking story or series.

----------


## Confuzzled

Francis Manapul variant cover for _Batgirl #6_

----------


## Frontier

Well that posing is...interesting  :Stick Out Tongue: .

----------


## buck135

Ivy will be immortalized on the silver screen again.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hea...lains-project-

----------


## Atlanta96

> Ivy will be immortalized on the silver screen again.
> 
> http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hea...lains-project-


Eva Green for Ivy, Eva Green for Ivy!

----------


## buck135

I'm hoping for Olivia Wilde. Her eyes are so hypnotic that if she walked up to me and asked for my wallet, I'd hand it right over. She is also extreamly intelligent and has already successfully portrayed a doctor before on House.

----------


## darkeyes

I would not mind seeing an Ivy with some curves, so how about Christina Hendricks?

----------


## buck135

The only possible issue there is if they want Ivy to be close to the same age as Harley. Ms. Hendricks will be 42 when shooting begins whereas Ms. Robbie will be 27. 

I find it amusing that Olivia Wilde was deemed too old for the role in Wolf of Wall Street which started Margot's career. Ms. Wilde is only six years older. Incredible.

----------


## Vanguard-01

> Eva Green for Ivy, Eva Green for Ivy!


I'm kind of holding out hope that she'll be Circe in a Wonder Woman movie, but she'd make a great Ivy as well!  :Smile:

----------


## Confuzzled

Natalie Dormer from _Game of Thrones_ is my pick

----------


## LordLeviathan

> Eva Green for Ivy, Eva Green for Ivy!





> Natalie Dormer from _Game of Thrones_ is my pick


After Rereading Poion Ivy cycle of life and death I would prefer Sophie Turner

----------


## Confuzzled

> After Rereading Poion Ivy cycle of life and death I would prefer Sophie Turner


She's already Phoenix and too young. Though if Dormer _is_ cast as Ivy, it would be fun to watch these GoT scenes as Ivy teaching Young Jean Grey the ways of the world  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## PwrdOn

I'm partial to Jessica Chastain.  It's a bit of an out of the box pick because she doesn't quite have the raw sexuality of some of the other choices, but that part of Ivy's character tends to be over-emphasized anyway at the expense of the rest of her personality, so maybe it's for the best.  Chastain is also quite a versatile performer so she'd do a good job in the role without slipping into caricature.

----------


## adrikito

About Gotham City Sirens:

http://www.newsarama.com/32363-gotha...the-works.html

----------


## Hi-Fi

Alison Sudol from Fantastic Beasts should play Ivy. She was so very charming and effortless in it.

----------


## Stryfe8

seconded....she has that look in her eyes

----------


## Confuzzled

I really liked her in Fantastic Beasts but she looks too angelic for Ivy.



Unless they flip the Harley/Ivy dynamic and make Margot Robbie's Harley the more shrewd, cynical and seductive one, while Ivy is more naive, too interested in protecting the vulnerable, and through her positive approach manages to sway Harley away from the Joker.

----------


## Punisher007

Evan Rachel Wood as Ivy please.

Also with Ayer and Margot being involved, it makes me think that they might be more "overt" with the Ivy/Harley stuff in this film.

----------


## darkseidpwns

> Evan Rachel Wood as Ivy please.
> 
> Also with Ayer and Margot being involved, it makes me think that they might be more "overt" with the Ivy/Harley stuff in this film.


Yeah Ayer ruined Joker for fan service, Ivy should be a walk in the park.

----------


## Punisher007

That's not what I meant.

----------


## Confuzzled

Joker was ruined the moment they cast mega annoying Jared Leto. Ayer didn't do anything other than put "Damaged" on his forehead (or maybe that was just a warning to let cast and crew members be understandably wary of Leto and his crazypants "method acting"  :Stick Out Tongue:  )

On the bright side, there is the possibility of Ivy owning that douche in a scene reminiscent of:

----------


## buck135

Rumour has it Megan Fox is going to be Ivy. I can't say I'm overly excited about that.

----------


## Frontier

> Rumour has it Megan Fox is going to be Ivy. I can't say I'm overly excited about that.


I can't believe WB/Ayer would ever seriously go in that direction, especially for a character as iconic as Poison Ivy  :Stick Out Tongue: .

Granted, Ayer made Jai Courtney work as Captain Boomerang so you never know...

----------


## darkseidpwns

> Joker was ruined the moment they cast mega annoying Jared Leto. Ayer didn't do anything other than put "Damaged" on his forehead (or maybe that was just a warning to let cast and crew members be understandably wary of Leto and his crazypants "method acting"  )
> 
> On the bright side, there is the possibility of Ivy owning that douche in a scene reminiscent of:



Leto is a good actor. Yes he completely over did it but it was the directors responsibility to rein him in instead of egging him on. Have you read the stories of Courtney running around naked for no reason or Carla being told to walk in to a forest naked at midnight? wtf? point is that Ayer wanted Leto to be this way, his vision and idea of the Joker were just horrific. Under someone like Nolan Leto would have been tolerable if nothing else and frankly I'm expecting a Batman and Robin level film with Gotham City Sirens. The temptation to jump in to fan service, camp and overdoing everything is very, VERY high. This film requires a director who can restrain himself, Ayer has proven with his Joker that he really cant.

----------


## adrikito

> Rumour has it Megan Fox is going to be Ivy. I can't say I'm overly excited about that.


I listen that rumor today:

http://comicbook.com/2016/12/14/rumo...gotham-city-s/

----------


## MentalManipulator

Very happy we're going to see Ivy's return on the silver screen. I hope they do her justice this time. 
Eager to seeing her dislike of the Clown.
Not so excited for Megan Fox though…I love Ivy being portrayed as sexy but she's supposed to look and act smarter then Harley and Megan Fox isn't the go to girls to play smart characters.

----------


## Agent Z

Fox has as much chance at playing Ivy as she does at playing Wonder Woman.

----------


## darkseidpwns

> Fox has as much chance at playing Ivy as she does at playing Wonder Woman.


She has as much chance as Gadot did which is a pretty good chance, all boils down to whether she has any chemistry with Robbie, if she does then it's a lock. All other consideration are unlikely to be of much importance. Remember Gadot was cast because she had the best chemistry with Ben.

----------


## Atlanta96

> She has as much chance as Gadot did which is a pretty good chance, all boils down to whether she has any chemistry with Robbie, if she does then it's a lock. All other consideration are unlikely to be of much importance. Remember Gadot was cast because she had the best chemistry with Ben.


The only things Megan Fox has chemistry with are Botox injections and being out-acted by a Victoria's Secret model.

----------


## darkseidpwns

> The only things Megan Fox has chemistry with are Botox injections and being out-acted by a Victoria's Secret model.


I dont think she'll be cast but I'll be damn surprised if Theron, Green, Chastain etc agree to any role in this film. At best I can see someone like Gugino, if this thing is Margot's baby then Margot is gonna go with those who have best chemistry with her and those who worked with her and would be willing to be her support characters.

Between Theron and Fox I wager we'll get something closer to Fox unless Affleck has heavy involvement and wants these characters in his movies. The differences in age,experience and reputation is too great.

----------


## Agent Z

The DCEU has its flaws but casting isn't one of them. I doubt Fix will be appearing in the movies and this will just be laughed off as another dumb rumour.

----------


## buck135

What sticks out to me are the documentaries on the Suicide Squad blu-ray regarding how well the cast got along. Megan Fox has a reputation of being difficult not to mention the unnecessary plastic surgery hasn't improved her acting or her looks. There are many different incarnations of Ivy WB can draw from, I just don't see Megan Fox pulling any of them off.

----------


## Confuzzled

Wouldn't the movie come out no sooner than 2019? I doubt casting is already under way. Btw Boss Logic did this great manip of Fox as Ivy



She'd be one of the last people I'd pick but I remember her being surprisingly good in _Jennifer's Body_. Still though, I doubt there's any truth to these rumors.

----------


## Osiris-Rex

> Wouldn't the movie come out no sooner than 2019? I doubt casting is already under way.


Den of Geek is saying that Gotham City Sirens might get the June 14th, 2019 release date that was going to be for Justice League 2.

----------


## MarquisAsh

I've met Megan fox a couple of times at my job. She's drop dead gorgeous...but as an actress? She's a drop dead gorgeous..I'll leave it at that.

----------


## Osiris-Rex

> I've met Megan fox a couple of times at my job. She's drop dead gorgeous...but as an actress? She's a drop dead gorgeous..I'll leave it at that.


From all the times I have seen of Poison Ivy in the comics books it never seemed it would take any great acting skills to play her anyway.  She always came off as aloof and mysterious.
So anyone that would look good bring angry while painted green will do just fine.

----------


## KCJ506

I remember after Transformers came out and Megan Fox became the new It Girl, people would fancast her for nearly every female comic role that needed to be cast. Especially Wonder Woman. Even after she had shown that she didn't have any respect for the character people still wanted her for the role.

IIRC, the trailers and posters for Jonah Hex tried to make it seem that she would have a big role, but she didn't even appear in the film that much. One thing that film showed was that Megan Fox is NOT a star. It was bizarre how magazines and gossip shows treated people with no real Hollywood success (such as Paris Hilton) as if people actually care about them. At the time, Megan Fox had starred(or co-starred) in four movies. Two of them were Transformers films which made their money mostly based on nostalgia for the toys and robot fights. The other two movies relied much heavier on the stars selling the pictures...and both were complete and utter box office bombs.

----------


## buck135

Ivy makes a brief cameo in Harley Quinn 10 and Trinity 4 (both released today). Two pages each if I remember correctly.

----------


## Confuzzled

Apparently Lois's approach to blindsiding Ivy is the same she'd adopt to blindsiding a bruiser villain like Doomsday.

----------


## Confuzzled

Tula Lotay's Ivy sketches for February's _All-Star Batman #7_

----------


## Frontier

> Apparently Lois's approach to blindsiding Ivy is the same she'd adopt to blindsiding a bruiser villain like Doomsday.


And Ivy ended up saving her son as well  :EEK!: .




> Tula Lotay's Ivy sketches for February's _All-Star Batman #7_


That's a mighty fine looking Ivy (as one would hope). 

Now I'm curious to see if they'll be some stripping in the actual issue  :Stick Out Tongue: .

----------


## Confuzzled

Art by Vanessa Del Rey

----------


## Confuzzled

Art by Garrie Gastonny and Elfandiary

----------


## Confuzzled

*Have a Great X-Mas Weekend, Ivy's Lovezombies!*

----------


## Frontier

Merry Christmas, fellow Ivy lovers  :Smile: .

Don't forget to treat your trees well, or else...  :Wink:

----------


## Confuzzled

> Merry Christmas, fellow Ivy lovers.
> 
> Don't forget to treat your trees well, or else...




 :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Confuzzled

Manapul offers another glimpse of Ivy in Trinity #5

----------


## Confuzzled

Cycle of Life and Death made HitFix's Best Comics of 2016 list




> _It took half a century, but DC Comics finally gave Pamela Isley her own comic this year. From the creative team of Amy Chu and Clay Mann, Cycle of Life and Death — along with Poison Ivy’s appearances as Harley’s girlfriend in the Harley Quinn ongoing — reestablished Pamela as less of a femme fatale and more of a lonely demigod. And like so many “one of a kind” creatures before her, Ivy takes creation into her own hands to start a species of her own. The book treats Ivy as morally ambiguous but not evil. Her disdain of humans is rooted in her love of plants, and while not above a judicious murder or two, Chu always makes sure the reader at least understands Pamela’s motivations. Also, if DC doesn’t do something with the daughters of Poison Ivy, it’ll be a real shame. — Donna Dickens_

----------


## Frontier

I need more Manapul Ivy in my life  :Big Grin: .

Of course, we've also got a Luppachino and Mann Ivy to enjoy, so I'm not complaining  :Wink: .

----------


## MentalManipulator

> Manapul offers another glimpse of Ivy in Trinity #5


So so glad to see Ivy back in her full glamour and classic look!

----------


## Confuzzled

So you guys may have picked up _Batgirl #6_ featuring Ivy but apparently there is a Poison Ivy story by Jeff Parker in the _Love is Love_ anthology too. I was planning on picking it up anyway but I hadn't pre-ordered it and my LCS was all out. Any of you had better luck? How's the Ivy tale?

----------


## buck135

I picked up the Batgirl issue yesterday along with the beautiful variant cover. It's a terrific issue. I also bought the Harley Quinn vs. Superman issue. Ivy makes a brief cameo. I'm curious about the Love is Love anthology you mentioned. I can't find anything further regarding it however.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I picked up the Batgirl issue yesterday along with the beautiful variant cover. It's a terrific issue. I also bought the Harley Quinn vs. Superman issue. Ivy makes a brief cameo. I'm curious about the Love is Love anthology you mentioned. I can't find anything further regarding it however.


Jeff Parker tweeted one panel from the story (linked below). Apparently it's just a page but cool to see Ivy feature in such a thoughtful endeavour: 


We Only Grow in the Sun

----------


## buck135

> Jeff Parker tweeted one panel from the story (linked below). Apparently it's just a page but cool to see Ivy feature in such a thoughtful endeavour: 
> 
> 
> We Only Grow in the Sun


Very cool. Thanks for the link.

----------


## buck135

Ivy isn't in today's issue of Harley Quinn (11). Saves me $2.99.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Ivy isn't in today's issue of Harley Quinn (11). Saves me $2.99.


Didn't she take a break from Harley? Not much of a loss if she doesn't appear in HQ for a while because all she is in the book is a Harley Quinn love interest.

----------


## Confuzzled

_Lego Batman Movie_ posters featuring Ivy:

----------


## buck135

Ivy was in issue 10, however that was a rather unusual issue.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> _Lego Batman Movie_ posters featuring Ivy:


I love it!
so excited for this movie…hope Ivy get some descent screen time…anyway I'll by all those minifigs…they look so fun!

----------


## Confuzzled

_All-Star Batman #7_ sneak peaks posted by Scott Snyder on Twitter:

----------


## buck135

Awesome. I didn't think we'd see Ivy until issue 8.

----------


## Confuzzled

A gorgeously illustrated and colored Ivy-centric preview for Trinity #5 is here! Turns out Ivy has found another one of her "daughters" and she's the reason for her involvement with Mongul.

Between Francis Manapul, Tula Lotay and the Lego Batman Movie, we will be getting a lot of purdy Ivy for these couple of months.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> _All-Star Batman #7_ sneak peaks posted by Scott Snyder on Twitter:


Gorgeous art! Great time to be an Ivy fan with this, Trinity, the Lego movie, Gotham City Sirens movie and also on the merchandising…lot's of Ivy goodies. On a bittersweet note, we had our first glimpse at the Poison Ivy action figure for the Batman Animated line and although it is great to have her many of us fans are not pleased with her look. Ou main concern is the coloring and the shape of the hair…but I also would have liked her curvier and a tad taller. 
On the left is the actual figure and on the right is a quick photoshop from an artist with some minor tweaks that could do her more justice:
Ivy shop chin fix_zpsh03dysup.jpg

What do you guys think about the figure?

If you are not happy let it be heard…write an e-mail to Kevin Kiniry at DCCOLLECTIBLES@dcentertainment.com explaining why they should tweak her to please the fans :-)

----------


## buck135

Wow, the figure on the right is exactly as she should look. I sent Mr. Kiniry a very nice email. Thanks for providing his email address.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> Wow, the figure on the right is exactly as she should look. I sent Mr. Kiniry a very nice email. Thanks for providing his email address.


Thank you for sending the e-mail. Hope our voices will be heard :-)

----------


## BatmanMerch



----------


## BatmanMerch



----------


## BatmanMerch



----------


## Witchfan

Has Poison Ivy ever been the victim of a costume theft?

----------


## Confuzzled

> Has Poison Ivy ever been the victim of a costume theft?


Some of her costumes are living or at least non-docile. Like in _The Batman_ animated show when she removed a leaf from her dress and another one grew in its place.

----------


## Agent Z

What were the sales for Ivy's mini again?

----------


## Confuzzled

> What were the sales for Ivy's mini again?


Average was 22-23K For comparison, it easily outsold all the other DC minis last year including Len Wein's Swamp Thing and the currently running Raven and Midnighter & Apollo are much behind it too. The TPB also had robust sales, finishing at #17 for the month of September and the only DC novels that beat it that month were Jill Thompson's Wonder Woman book, Darkseid Wars and Harley Quinn.

----------


## buck135

Excellent news! Injustice 2 will feature Ivy. 

https://youtu.be/9hklKfEEsxc

----------


## Confuzzled

> Excellent news! Injustice 2 will feature Ivy. 
> 
> https://youtu.be/9hklKfEEsxc


Yay! I wonder if she's playable. Imagine using her plants and pheromones to control NPCs and setting them on opponents!

----------


## Frontier

Really happy to see Ivy confirmed for Injustice 2. Was definitely not expecting to see her, but can't wait to see her in action  :Smile: .

Looks like they're going with an all-leaves outfit for Ivy, which I imagine won't leave very much to the imagination  :Stick Out Tongue: .

Curious to see what her dialogue with Harley and Batman is like.

----------


## buck135

I preordered the Ultimate Edition. I told myself I wouldn't buy this game if Ivy wasn’t included, so I put my money where my mouth is.

----------


## GamerSlyRatchet

> Looks like they're going with an all-leaves outfit for Ivy, which I imagine won't leave very much to the imagination .


Well, the game has a huge armor gimmick, so she won't be uncovered for long.  :Wink:

----------


## Confuzzled

_Trinity #5_ came out today. Ivy looked lovely (the art on a whole was pretty as heck as is usual for Manapul) and the story is turning out to be great, especially the twist on the "For the Man Who Has Everything" story with Mongul and the Mercy flowers in this issue. After the reveals in this issue, interested in seeing how Ivy reacts once she realizes Mongul's scheme.

----------


## Deadly Garden

> Gorgeous art! Great time to be an Ivy fan with this, Trinity, the Lego movie, Gotham City Sirens movie and also on the merchandisinglot's of Ivy goodies. On a bittersweet note, we had our first glimpse at the Poison Ivy action figure for the Batman Animated line and although it is great to have her many of us fans are not pleased with her look. Ou main concern is the coloring and the shape of the hairbut I also would have liked her curvier and a tad taller. 
> On the left is the actual figure and on the right is a quick photoshop from an artist with some minor tweaks that could do her more justice:
> Attachment 43789
> 
> What do you guys think about the figure?
> 
> If you are not happy let it be heardwrite an e-mail to Kevin Kiniry at DCCOLLECTIBLES@dcentertainment.com explaining why they should tweak her to please the fans :-)


(Hoping this isn't a double post.)

I saw this being promoted and assumed it was some cutesy Japanese import version of the BTAS Poison Ivy. I thought there's nooo way this was an official release for the new wave of animated figures. The proportions are wrong -- the face and hair in particular -- and the coloring is off too. That golden era/Hollywood hair swoop is one of this characters trademarks. It's all but gone. Also, everything is too "yellow" -- Ivy wore blue greens.

If you're telling me this is what they were hiding (NO PICTURES allowed) at a recent toy fair as a future big reveal -- I am sorely disappointed. Every other figure in the set is on model EXCEPT for this one. They'd better fix this -- because people have been waiting for a proper version for years.

----------


## Confuzzled

BTAS Ivy had a lot more visual flair than her peers on the show (one of the reasons that look caught on so well). So I was bewildered when I came across Bruce Timm complaining about how that design wasn't how he had pictured her at all and how the studio that had created her design made her a "hulking Amazon". He leaped at the chance to redesign her for TNBA and sure enough, he removed all the flair (and curves) and ended up with a far more simplistic design (which apparently is easier for toymakers to emulate). After the utterly off-target model that was the original BTAS Poison Ivy action figure, I gave up hope that any toy could reproduce that lovely look accurately.

----------


## dietrich

*Tyler Kirkham Poison Ivy Variant Cover for SuperSons #1*

----------


## Confuzzled

> *Tyler Kirkham Poison Ivy Variant Cover for SuperSons #1*


OOF, that's one way of hammering the "coming of age" theme of the book home!

So is Ivy the antagonist in Super Sons' first arc/story too or is this just a fun fanservicey variant?

----------


## Londo Bellian

Fanservice. We have one with Catwoman, then "Principal" J (crowbar included) and finally a variant with all three together.

----------


## Confuzzled

More All-Star Batman #7 previews by Scott Snyder




Cannot wait for this.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> (Hoping this isn't a double post.)
> 
> I saw this being promoted and assumed it was some cutesy Japanese import version of the BTAS Poison Ivy. I thought there's nooo way this was an official release for the new wave of animated figures. The proportions are wrong -- the face and hair in particular -- and the coloring is off too. That golden era/Hollywood hair swoop is one of this characters trademarks. It's all but gone. Also, everything is too "yellow" -- Ivy wore blue greens.
> 
> If you're telling me this is what they were hiding (NO PICTURES allowed) at a recent toy fair as a future big reveal -- I am sorely disappointed. Every other figure in the set is on model EXCEPT for this one. They'd better fix this -- because people have been waiting for a proper version for years.





> BTAS Ivy had a lot more visual flair than her peers on the show (one of the reasons that look caught on so well). So I was bewildered when I came across Bruce Timm complaining about how that design wasn't how he had pictured her at all and how the studio that had created her design made her a "hulking Amazon". He leaped at the chance to redesign her for TNBA and sure enough, he removed all the flair (and curves) and ended up with a far more simplistic design (which apparently is easier for toymakers to emulate). After the utterly off-target model that was the original BTAS Poison Ivy action figure, I gave up hope that any toy could reproduce that lovely look accurately.


Exactly! Her design was so unique and I'm sure helped making her characters into the A-List villains she is now today. I had the old Kenner figure because I loved the character but always dreamed of a proper version of her. Immediately when this line was announced all I thought was about Ivy being made justice. And now this...

Many fans are frustrated with their lazy rendition...please help by writing Kevin a polite e-mail asking for some changes...all in all if AT LEAST they get the colors and the fair sculpt right it will improve the figure a lot!
I count on you guys :-)

----------


## Frontier

> More All-Star Batman #7 previews by Scott Snyder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cannot wait for this.


Heh, "Dr. Isley." I like that...

----------


## Deadly Garden

> BTAS Ivy had a lot more visual flair than her peers on the show (one of the reasons that look caught on so well). So I was bewildered when I came across Bruce Timm complaining about how that design wasn't how he had pictured her at all and how the studio that had created her design made her a "hulking Amazon". He leaped at the chance to redesign her for TNBA and sure enough, he removed all the flair (and curves) and ended up with a far more simplistic design (which apparently is easier for toymakers to emulate). After the utterly off-target model that was the original BTAS Poison Ivy action figure, I gave up hope that any toy could reproduce that lovely look accurately.


It can be done. I bought the "Femme Fatales" PVC statuette and the mini-bust and they are done well. (Though my mini-bust had slightly crooked eyes!) So I'm not sure why this rendition seems to be difficult to pull off for official releases. I've seen custom fan-figures that are on point.

As for Timm -- I don't think he credits the folks who actually did the leg work for both the BTAS and TNBA designs. He basically tossed the projects into Shane Glines and Lynn Naylor's laps and just said yay or nay until "they" got it right. I remember Timm's remarks about the overseas animation house getting her wrong (initially.) Oddly enough I thought she looked her BEST in Pretty Poison and Eternal Youth. After that, they switched to a different studio and Poison Ivy went all mushy in the face. She looks terrible in Harley & Ivy.

prettypoison.jpg

harleyandivy.jpg

----------


## Confuzzled

> It can be done. I bought the "Femme Fatales" PVC statuette and the mini-bust and they are done well. (Though my mini-bust had slightly crooked eyes!) So I'm not sure why this rendition seems to be difficult to pull off for official releases. I've seen custom fan-figures that are on point.
> 
> As for Timm -- I don't think he credits the folks who actually did the leg work for both the BTAS and TNBA designs. He basically tossed the projects into Shane Glines and Lynn Naylor's laps and just said yay or nay until "they" got it right. I remember Timm's remarks about the overseas animation house getting her wrong (initially.) Oddly enough I thought she looked her BEST in Pretty Poison and Eternal Youth. After that, they switched to a different studio and Poison Ivy went all mushy in the face. She looks terrible in Harley & Ivy.
> 
> prettypoison.jpg
> 
> harleyandivy.jpg


Yes, I rewatched _Harley & Ivy_ two weekends backs. Her facial features refuse to stay put. The voice acting and writing did all the heavylifting there. When you compare it to an episode like _Eternal Youth_ (the warm and vibrant colors of the scenes set in Ivy's resort just pop on screen, definitely one of the best looking episodes of the show, if not THE best), the steep drop in animation quality is downright jarring. The animators of EY and _Pretty Poison_ were dedicated to emphasising Ivy's ethereal beauty in a way their successors weren't.

----------


## Confuzzled

A couple of ASB #7 variant covers, the first by Tula Lotay and the second by Francesco Francavilla:

----------


## Deadly Garden

IMG_5631.jpg

Here's a rough sketch of Poison Ivy for "Justice League Action!" compliments of Shane Glines via Facebook.

----------


## Frontier

> IMG_5631.jpg
> 
> Here's a rough sketch of Poison Ivy for "Justice League Action!" compliments of Shane Glines via Facebook.


Pleasantly surprised at how much it resembles her DCAU design (or at least, her TNBA design)  :Smile: .

----------


## Confuzzled

> IMG_5631.jpg
> 
> Here's a rough sketch of Poison Ivy for "Justice League Action!" compliments of Shane Glines via Facebook.


Nice. It has more personality than the TNBA design, even if it is inspired by it. Her dress also reminds me of her _The Batman_ incarnation.




> Pleasantly surprised at how much it resembles her DCAU design (or at least, her TNBA design) .


Even her _Brave and the Bold_ design seemed inspired by TNBA (also an improvement, IMO). _Young Justice_ too bared resemblance, though that's my least favorite of the animated Ivy avatars.

----------


## vitaminbee

Poison Ivy by W. Scott Forbes

----------


## Confuzzled

I chuckled at "Ivy Salad (NOT POISON)" on the Batburgers outlet menu from _Batman #16_:

----------


## Confuzzled

First good look at Ivy in _Injustice 2_

----------


## Frontier

Looks like a good adaption of her traditional plant dress (that will obviously be very customizable)  :Smile: .

----------


## Confuzzled

Ivy's profile on the Injustice 2 website

----------


## buck135

She does look good. I would have liked her hair to have been a bit more red, but I'm just happy she's there. Incidently I just received a code for the beta and received quite a beating from the other players. I'm really terrible with fighting games

----------


## Deadly Garden

Hmmm. I'll need to see more from Injustice. I can't say I'm completely sold. It's surprisingly pedestrian - at least neck up. That woman could be anybody. Gah! The "mom" hair.

----------


## Confuzzled

Riki Lindhome from _Garfunkel & Oates, Gilmore Girls, House_ and _The Big Bang Theory_ is voicing Poison Ivy in The Lego Batman Movie (Her Garfunkel & Oates partner Kate Micucci is voicing Clayface in the film  :Stick Out Tongue: )

----------


## Confuzzled

You guys can see the entire lettered preview in the other thread so just posting the reveal of Ivy's new costume from tomorrow's _All-Star Batman #7_ here

----------


## Atlanta96

*vomits* Looks like a bad cosplay.

----------


## Frontier

I much preferred the classic look that _Trinity_ and Ivy's guest appearances, plus her mini, were edging her back into compared to this. 

It's not terrible, but it feels very underwhelming for an Ivy redesign.

----------


## Aliltron

Hope this design stays in this book and remains there lmao. Yeah, it's not very appealing to me.

----------


## buck135

Good grief that's awful. Looks like Daryl Hannah from Blade Runner meets Copperhead. To think I ordered all three versions of this issue (including the two variants).

----------


## Confuzzled

> Good grief that's awful. Looks like Daryl Hannah from Blade Runner meets Copperhead. To think I ordered all three versions of this issue (including the two variants).


If it's a consolation, the rest of the book looks like a trippy fun psychedelia fantasy and of course, it's Snyder's first proper take on Ivy so should be interesting either way.

----------


## HandofPrometheus

Costume is terrible. I know alot of people don't like her new 52 one but I loved it. She was still sexy and her costume was used in a way no one used her before which I liked because she could get down and dirty without being useless. I also liked her Trinity costume.

----------


## Deadly Garden

Why do some artists try to reinvent the wheel? If you stick to the basic fundamentals of Poison Ivy's costume it's nearly fool proof - even when given a different spin. I really don't like when she is overly streamlined to the point where she's basically just wearing green clothes. I'm not even sure what this is even going for?? Utilitarian? Mod? The face paint just takes it to an even more WTF kind of place. Leave the grease paint to Harley. If they had to do simple they could've done something in the vein of Cast Shadows. 

On the other board some have stated that THIS is now the costume standard...and I laugh. Because it won't last. Isn't All Stars not even considered canon? I thought this was a standalone project.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Why do some artists try to reinvent the wheel? If you stick to the basic fundamentals of Poison Ivy's costume it's nearly fool proof - even when given a different spin. I really don't like when she is overly streamlined to the point where she's basically just wearing green clothes. I'm not even sure what this is even going for?? Utilitarian? Mod? The face paint just takes it to an even more WTF kind of place. Leave the grease paint to Harley. If they had to do simple they could've done something in the vein of Cast Shadows. 
> 
> On the other board some have stated that THIS is now the costume standard...and I laugh. Because it won't last. Isn't All Stars not even considered canon? I thought this was a standalone project.


The "face paint" is just the sticky part of the bark of the ancient desert tree she rubbed onto her face, I think in order to symbolize her connection to the Green.



I think it looked good, bringing out the fierce green of her eyes. Though I preferred the neon green vapours that appeared later on around her eyes.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Looks like Daryl Hannah from Blade Runner meets Copperhead.


You were right on the money as that seemed to be the intention going by this interview with Tula Lotay and Scott Snyder by Blastr:




> _What was the inspiration behind the new look for Ivy, revealed in this issue?
> 
> Tula Lotay: As I said, finding a different take on the costume is so hard because she looks so perfect anyway. But the setting Scott chose, the California desert, spoke to me. The costume flows from that. I was thinking of one of my favorite films, Blade Runner. I really love Pris' character and was thinking a little bit of Pris with the make-up. Other things came to mind with the desert, like Furiosa [from Mad Max: Fury Road]  and the black paint that would shield her eyes from the sun  and the mechanics of the costume that keep her cool. The mesh would do that, and the shoes would have to be sensible sand shoes, but I wanted them to be high to accentuate her figure. It ended up being easy with Scott's writing._

----------


## buck135

Interesting. Thanks for posting that. Ivy is a difficult character for DC to illustrate and write for because there are so many fans that love her as a villain and siren (such as Deadly Garden and myself), and there are others who prefer her as a hero who is justified in her logic. I think we can all agree that having her exist as Harley's sidekick is a waste.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Interesting. Thanks for posting that. Ivy is a difficult character for DC to illustrate and write for because there are so many fans that love her as a villain and siren (such as Deadly Garden and myself), and there are others who prefer her as a hero who is justified in her logic. *I think we can all agree that having her exist as Harley's sidekick is a waste.*


Yes it is a true waste for the character and I can't believe the entitlement of some Harley fanboys who actively harass folks wanting to see Ivy coming into her own by separating from their fantasy waifu.  :Stick Out Tongue:  Regarding Poison Ivy League and their desire to see Ivy depicted as a more misunderstood creature, I think that's far more reasonable and in my opinion that plan also enables Ivy to be a more robust stand alone character than if she sticks to her femme fatale archetype. Also to note is that writers have been adding complexities to the character for decades, so I think it's natural for the character to grow into being more reedemable. Especially considering how increasingly relevant environmental concerns keep getting by the year, and also because Ivy plays organically* into nature goddess archetypes. Personally, I'd like to see the character depicted on a middle ground of sorts. Brilliant, powerful and a victim of prejudice and bigotry who is not as much a misanthrope as misunderstood, but also fiercely refusing to bow down to moral conceptions of what society excepts from "good girls". I'd also like it very much if they retained her sense of humor. That trait usually seems to be reserved only when she is depicted as a corny temptress apparently.

There was another interview with Scott Snyder where he said that he sees Ivy as being far more redeemable than her male counterparts in the Rogue's Gallery and maybe even Harley. But more morally darker than Catwoman. I think that's a good grasp on the character.

Btw there is this great analytical read on Ivy's evolution as a character through the decades, the themes she came to espouse and the influence of fans on her depictions: http://www.nerdspan.com/poison-ivy-a...ife-and-death/

*The puns come naturally with Ivy, don't they?  :Wink:

----------


## Confuzzled

Preview for Trinity #6 reveals Mongul's betrayal of Ivy:





Interesting that Lois had Jonathan reveal himself in front of Pam.

----------


## darkseidpwns

A deal with Mongul? how could that possibly not go wrong (sarcasm)

----------


## Atlanta96

Luppaccino's a great artist but I'm starting to think she's not the best fit for this series. I'd rather see her on something like Harley Quinn than this.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Luppaccino's a great artist but I'm starting to think she's not the best fit for this series. I'd rather see her on something like Harley Quinn than this.


Manapul is such a tough act to follow. Luppacino's art is great as a standalone but suffers when it is directly following up the unbelievable purdiness of _Trinity #5_

----------


## Bukdiah

> Luppaccino's a great artist but I'm starting to think she's not the best fit for this series. I'd rather see her on something like Harley Quinn than this.


With her art, everyone looks so beautiful!

----------


## MosSuperman



----------


## buck135

Awesome. I'm glad I have this preordered.

----------


## Frontier

Ivy looks great. So graceful and refined  :Embarrassment: .

Also nice to hear Tasia Valenza back, I believe  :Smile: .

----------


## The_Greatest_Username

Ivy looks like so much fun.

----------


## Agent Z

> Yes it is a true waste for the character and I can't believe the entitlement of some Harley fanboys who actively harass folks wanting to see Ivy coming into her own by separating from their fantasy waifu.  Regarding Poison Ivy League and their desire to see Ivy depicted as a more misunderstood creature, I think that's far more reasonable and in my opinion that plan also enables Ivy to be a more robust stand alone character than if she sticks to her femme fatale archetype. Also to note is that writers have been adding complexities to the character for decades, so I think it's natural for the character to grow into being more reedemable. Especially considering how increasingly relevant environmental concerns keep getting by the year, and also because Ivy plays organically* into nature goddess archetypes. Personally, I'd like to see the character depicted on a middle ground of sorts. Brilliant, powerful and a victim of prejudice and bigotry who is not as much a misanthrope as misunderstood, but also fiercely refusing to bow down to moral conceptions of what society excepts from "good girls". I'd also like it very much if they retained her sense of humor. That trait usually seems to be reserved only when she is depicted as a corny temptress apparently.
> 
> There was another interview with Scott Snyder where he said that he sees Ivy as being far more redeemable than her male counterparts in the Rogue's Gallery and maybe even Harley. But more morally darker than Catwoman. I think that's a good grasp on the character.
> 
> Btw there is this great analytical read on Ivy's evolution as a character through the decades, the themes she came to espouse and the influence of fans on her depictions: http://www.nerdspan.com/poison-ivy-a...ife-and-death/
> 
> *The puns come naturally with Ivy, don't they?


Do you have any particular ideas for an Ivy solo? Also, if you could team Ivy with a Marvel character, who would it be?

----------


## Spiritualcramp

Been a fan of her character since seeing her way back in Batman the Animated series as a kid, and rediscovering her relationship with Harley during the new 52 run for Harley Quinn was a good take on her. She's definitely one of my favorite Batman rogues and I loved the angle they took with her in Trinity. I wonder who they're going to get to play her in Gotham Sirens.

----------


## PwrdOn

This would be an interesting villain concept for a potential Ivy solo:

----------


## Confuzzled

> 


I LOVE it. She looks much better in the actual game than in that profile photo. Love the plant monsters too. Was afraid Swamp Thing may have stolen her thunder but Ivy has carved her own niche in the DC plant kingdom.  :Big Grin:

----------


## Confuzzled

> Do you have any particular ideas for an Ivy solo? Also, if you could team Ivy with a Marvel character, who would it be?


Yes, I have many ideas for an Ivy solo but right now I'd like to keep them to myself.  :Wink: 

As for Marvel characters she could team up with, definitely Emma Frost and Magneto. All of them have been vilified for being extremists supporting noble causes, but in many ways society pushed them to be extremists.

----------


## Deadly Garden

I don't often admit when I've jumped the gun - but All Star Batman #7 was a pleasant surprise. I think the initial preview image was a tad misleading because its really the only the time the costume looks like "that". Further in it really does look pretty traditional for the rest of the story. A story that was pretty darn impressive. Fascinating really.

----------


## Deadly Garden

> I LOVE it. She looks much better in the actual game than in that profile photo. Love the plant monsters too. Was afraid Swamp Thing may have stolen her thunder but Ivy has carved her own niche in the DC plant kingdom.


This looks like a lot of fun. But I still have a few issues with the visual here. I guess I can live with the more lime green coloring but - yeesh - the design is messy. The breast cups look insubstantial and that weird shoulder strappy stuff - meh. They used a weird accent color for the back leaves...rusty orange? Hair looks better but the braid? too "Frozen" for me. The plant creations look great.

----------


## Confuzzled

> This looks like a lot of fun. But I still have a few issues with the visual here. I guess I can live with the more lime green coloring but - yeesh - the design is messy. The breast cups look insubstantial and that weird shoulder strappy stuff - meh. They used a weird accent color for the back leaves...rusty orange? Hair looks better but the braid? too "Frozen" for me. The plant creations look great.


There should be alternative skins so this could just be one of many costumes. I think we are stuck with the hair though. Annoying as I found her "Team Rocket Jessie" hair to also be the weakest aspect of her look in the _Arkham_ games.

----------


## Confuzzled

Man, _Trinity #6_ was such a cruel tease. Ivy gets to know the identities of the Trinity and it seems like a MONUMENTAL development for the character... only to have ye olde memory erasure hocus pocus cast on her (via the spawn of Mongul).

----------


## Deadly Garden

Here's the Injustice 2 mobile version of Poison Ivy. Sooo much better. Hopefully it's offered as a variant in the non-mobile game. (Sorry for the spotty quality) IMG_6257.jpg

----------


## Confuzzled

> Here's the Injustice 2 mobile version of Poison Ivy. Sooo much better. Hopefully it's offered as a variant in the non-mobile game. (Sorry for the spotty quality) IMG_6257.jpg


Gorgeous. Also, Natasha Leggero is voicing Ivy in _Justice League Action_ and she seems to be the main villain in an episode titled "Garden of Evil" (release date not announced yet).

----------


## Frontier

I have no idea who Ms. Leggero is, but hopefully she's able to pull off a good Ivy and has some good chemistry with Tara Strong's Harley  :Smile: .

----------


## MentalManipulator

On the toy news front...
thanks for everybody that wrote an e-mail to DC Collectibles complaining about the bad head sculpt and wrong color scheme for the BTAS Ivy figure. They listened to the fans and announced during Toy Fair that she's going to be retooled...yay! Winn for the fans! Now let's wait for SDCC for new pictures of her.

----------


## Confuzzled

> On the toy news front...
> thanks for everybody that wrote an e-mail to DC Collectibles complaining about the bad head sculpt and wrong color scheme for the BTAS Ivy figure. They listened to the fans and announced during Toy Fair that she's going to be retooled...yay! Winn for the fans! Now let's wait for SDCC for new pictures of her.


That's great to hear and I appreciate that they listened to the fans. 

Also Ivy fans, vote for her in this poll by Comics Alliance

----------


## Confuzzled

So, Francis Manapul revealed on Twitter that he had originally intended for Lois to defend Ivy from having her memories erased and after this story, Ivy was supposed to know the secret identities of the Trinity. But editorial shot the idea down. Hmph, it would have been such a significant moment for the character if they had gone with his original plan.

----------


## batnbreakfast

Sorry, if its already been discussed but I've only read the last 10pages of this thread. After just having finished Cycle of Life and Death,
 I have some questions for you guys. 
When was Ivy connected to the Green and what's the story?
Will Hazel, Rose and Thorn show up again?
Am I the only one who thinks single-mom-femme-fatale 
would have been an intriguing direction for Ivy?

----------


## Confuzzled

> Sorry, if its already been discussed but I've only read the last 10pages of this thread. After just having finished Cycle of Life and Death,
>  I have some questions for you guys. 
> When was Ivy connected to the Green and what's the story?
> Will Hazel, Rose and Thorn show up again?
> Am I the only one who thinks single-mom-femme-fatale 
> would have been an intriguing direction for Ivy?


Ivy's connection to the Green was utilised prominently in the New 52's "Rotworld" arc but pre-52 was when her connection to the equivalent of "The Green" was established, when Swamp Thing needs her help (cannot remember the exact issue off the top of my head). There's no "origin story" as to how she acquired the connection as such, it was revealed that she always had the ability after her "transformation" (it's not technically a recent retcon as she has had a mystical connection to plants for decades now). 

The plan with the Sporelings (Ivy's daughters) was to allow them to return. _Cycle_ writer Amy Chu had plans for a second arc as she revealed on Twitter but right now, DC is stalling it for whatever reason (I think Didio is unsure whether to develop Ivy as her own solo character or just keep her as Harley's partner-in-crime/member of the Sirens).

I liked Cycle introducing the single mom aspect to Ivy's already multifaceted personality. I think like the Green, it makes sense for her to have diverse traits: scientific intellect, fatale, maternal nature, creator of life (and harbinger of death), preserver of the environment etc. We did see her as caretaker of children in No Man's Land and its follow-ups and also stuff like BTAS episode _House and Garden_, but the mini-series is the first to really make something out of the concept.

----------


## Confuzzled

Poison Ivy placed a strong #7 on Comics Alliance's _Top Ten Batman Villains_ list, as voted by site visitors. 




What's interesting is that Ivy is the highest placing female foe on the list, easily beating out Catwoman who barely managed to make it, Talia who missed the list, and Harley who doesn't even seem to be anywhere close to the Top 10.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> Poison Ivy placed a strong #7 on Comics Alliance's _Top Ten Batman Villains_ list, as voted by site visitors. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's interesting is that Ivy is the highest placing female foe on the list, easily beating out Catwoman who barely managed to make it, Talia who missed the list, and Harley who doesn't even seem to be anywhere close to the Top 10.


That's great news...Ivy has such a strong fan base...I hope DC is paying attention because she always wins or at least get high placed in online votes...

----------


## batnbreakfast

@Confuzzled
Thanks for the detailed answer. Really appreciate it. My favourite Ivy story is probably from the NML/New Gotham issues and I liked the first half of her mini, the second not so much. What's amazing is getting theese minis for the rogues gallery. I hope it won't be the last one for a long time.

----------


## GamerSlyRatchet

> Am I the only one who thinks single-mom-femme-fatale 
> would have been an intriguing direction for Ivy?


I like it. It certainly gives her more dimension as a character. 

Also, good place for Ivy on that list, especially since I didn't even expect her to make it, but the Court over Hugo Strange? Really?

----------


## Confuzzled

Another Comics Alliance poll that has Ivy as one of the candidates, this time it is Top 10 Birds of Prey. Vote here: http://comicsalliance.com/mvp-greatest-birds-of-prey/

----------


## Frontier

It feels weird to think she's even applicable for that poll  :Stick Out Tongue: .

----------


## Confuzzled

> It feels weird to think she's even applicable for that poll .


She was technically a member so she counts.  :Stick Out Tongue:  When Jim Zub was originally planned to take over New 52 BoP from the gentleman with the difficult to spell last name, he had planned to continue Ivy's story with the unresolved plot point regarding the biosuit that sustained her life. I think he would have worked in a redemption for her betrayal of the BoP. Though of course, that was a period when DC Editorial was making one questionable move after the next and poor Jim Zub lost the job before he could even start on the book. His replacement Christy Marx did not include Ivy in her BoP plans unfortunately. So that entire mystery of the New 52 biosuit and Ivy's history with its creators remains a dangling thread forever. Just like the couple of times or so pre-New 52 when Ivy died and then reappeared without any explanation.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Atlanta96

I'm glad they're distancing Ivy from the BoP, that was such a confusing and unnecessary decision to stick her on that team. I'm more interested in a darker, more evil take on Ivy in the future. The villain lite Ivy we have now is getting stale.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I'm glad they're distancing Ivy from the BoP, that was such a confusing and unnecessary decision to stick her on that team. I'm more interested in a darker, more evil take on Ivy in the future. The villain lite Ivy we have now is getting stale.


Darker and evil is played out. Current Ivy is more dynamic than the likes of Two-Face, Freeze, Scarecrow and even Joker and Harley. No need to regress her to Arkham loon again.

----------


## Frontier

Eh, she's Poison Ivy. She can be either or both the moment it suits her (and the writers)  :Stick Out Tongue: .

Though since she'll probably be permanently attached to the hip to the Sirens come the movie, I doubt we'll see her be as connected to the BoP as she was in the New 52.

----------


## Atlanta96

> Darker and evil is played out. Current Ivy is more dynamic than the likes of Two-Face, Freeze, Scarecrow and even Joker and Harley. No need to regress her to Arkham loon again.


No like, really dark and evil. Terrifyingly sadistic mass killer levels of evil with horrifying imagery thrown in. I'd rather see that than the barely a villain we have now.

----------


## Confuzzled

> No like, really dark and evil. Terrifyingly sadistic mass killer levels of evil with horrifying imagery thrown in. I'd rather see that than the barely a villain we have now.


Paul Dini tried it in that _Stalked_ story and it didn't click. She has been stretched all over the morality and hero/anti-hero/villain/psycho spectrum and the greyer areas are where she shines the best as a character. EXTRREME DARKNESS!11! is too limiting a space. _Ahem_, she needs a little light to grow.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Frontier

> Paul Dini tried it in that _Stalked_ story and it didn't click. She has been stretched all over the morality and hero/anti-hero/villain/psycho spectrum and the greyer areas are where she shines the best as a character. EXTRREME DARKNESS!11! is too limiting a space. _Ahem_, she needs a little light to grow.


Well, I still think she also works well as an unrepentant villainess with an eco-terrorist bent, but I don't necessarily disagree with you...

----------


## Confuzzled

> Well, I still think she also works well as an unrepentant villainess with an eco-terrorist bent, but I don't necessarily disagree with you...


Oh I love her as unrepentant too.  :Stick Out Tongue:  I just don't think the character suits sadistic psychopathic excess like in _Stalked_.

----------


## buck135

I love Ivy's look in _Stalked_. The issue itself leaves a lot to be desired.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I love Ivy's look in _Stalked_. The issue itself leaves a lot to be desired.


Agreed about the gorgeous art. However, I'm torn when it comes to the green skin. On the one hand, it makes for a strong and appealing visual. OTOH, with the level of exposure that Gamora from _Guardians of the Galaxy_ has received over the past three years or so, it has lost its uniqueness. Doesn't help that the movie changed Gamora's hair color to red so that she has the same skin/hair color scheme as pre-New 52 Ivy (now that I think of it, Gamora's whole color scheme in the movie is very similar to Ivy's from the _Arkham_ games. Hmm...)

I've grown to prefer the human skin tone for Ivy, especially with the henna-esque vines (whether they're black like in New 52 or green like in her mini-series) on her skin.

----------


## buck135

I agree that the green skin is not her best look. I'm sure for the Sirens film they'll stick to her human complexion with the option to change when applicable.

----------


## Deadly Garden

As far as the green skin goes - it all depends on who is the colorist. I've seen hues from She-Hulk green to pale/sallow, near white, tones. I prefer the macabre pale look over the dark green. I just got the variant of the Luis Royo Poison Ivy statue the other day - and I'm actually more impressed with that then the OTHER more expensive Premium Format statue. I'm using these as examples of good and IMO not so great green options. The more vibrant green just looks silly to me now. Even though I really did enjoy that era of Poison Ivy.

13724591_1826735527559420_900234056_n.jpg
3002202-poison-ivy-006.jpg

----------


## buck135

> As far as the green skin goes - it all depends on who is the colorist. I've seen hues from She-Hulk green to pale/sallow, near white, tones. I prefer the macabre pale look over the dark green. I just got the variant of the Luis Royo Poison Ivy statue the other day - and I'm actually more impressed with that then the OTHER more expensive Premium Format statue. I'm using these as examples of good and IMO not so great green options. The more vibrant green just looks silly to me now. Even though I really did enjoy that era of Poison Ivy.
> 
> 13724591_1826735527559420_900234056_n.jpg
> 3002202-poison-ivy-006.jpg



I own this statue and love it. dc-comics-poison-ivy-statue-yamato-usa-902634-04.jpg

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## Deadly Garden

She's gorgeous really. I ordered mine at the standard retail price after finally tracking one down. I was so paranoid about ordering a resin statue at that price with so many "breakable" parts like the leaves and such. And to my not-surprise - a section of leaves had broken off on her left arm wrist in transit. But its barely noticeable and easily fixable. I'd rather just do it myself than send it back ugh been there done that not worth the extra postage.

It's also the first statue I've purchased that made use of magnets so that was interesting. I spent a good 20 minutes trying to figure out what went where because there were no instructions other than the promo pictures.

----------


## buck135

> She's gorgeous really. I ordered mine at the standard retail price after finally tracking one down. I was so paranoid about ordering a resin statue at that price with so many "breakable" parts like the leaves and such. And to my not-surprise - a section of leaves had broken off on her left arm wrist in transit. But its barely noticeable and easily fixable. I'd rather just do it myself than send it back ugh been there done that not worth the extra postage.


I don't think that's a defect. My statue had that same issue.

----------


## mathew101281

> Well, I still think she also works well as an unrepentant villainess with an eco-terrorist bent, but I don't necessarily disagree with you...


I agree. I hate that any female villain that gets popular (and it is almost exclusively the female villains) gets morphed into an antihero. It's why their are so few female villains at the top of the comic book hierarchy.

----------


## Confuzzled

I prefer the pale skin to the more vibrant green too! Speaking of pale skin, saw these amazing manips of my own personal choice for Ivy on the big screen making the rounds on Twitter:






> I agree. I hate that any female villain that gets popular (and it is almost exclusively the female villains) gets morphed into an antihero. It's why their are so few female villains at the top of the comic book hierarchy.


To be fair, fanboys and most creators are never gonna let Ivy be the alpha and omega of a hierarchy consisting of Joker, Ra's Al Ghul and Bane so it is better that she, ahem, branches out a little to become her own thing. Magneto, Punisher, Doom and Venom (depending on who is fused with the symbiote) are prominent male villains who became more grey-shaded so it is not an exclusively lady thing as it is made out to be. Not to mention the development has only boosted the prominence of the Gotham City Sirens, and the reason it is possible that they get to star in their own movie.

----------


## Deadly Garden

> To be fair, fanboys and most creators are never gonna let Ivy be the alpha and omega of a hierarchy consisting of Joker, Ra's Al Ghul and Bane so it is better that she, ahem, branches out a little to become her own thing. Magneto, Punisher, Doom and Venom (depending on who is fused with the symbiote) are prominent male villains who became more grey-shaded so it is not an exclusively lady thing as it is made out to be. Not to mention the development has only boosted the prominence of the Gotham City Sirens, and the reason it is possible that they get to star in their own movie.


I had to learn to appreciate a Poison Ivy that has an ambiguous moral compass - versus just being a straight up menace. In the end I realized that having flourishes of anti-hero characteristics here and there actually gave her SOMETHING to do besides the usual stuff we've seen over the years. I mean really, how many times do we need to see Ivy storm into a room full of millionaires and steal their riches, kiss Batman, and then get knocked out? Also...and some may disagree...but I've noticed a trend mainly involving fanboys (nay, boys) who want a BAD GIRL Ivy because they just want her to be hot and sexy. They don't see the female villains having a purpose in Gotham beyond being there for the male gaze. What? Pathos? Motivations? Nah how boring, right? These are the same types who pretty much made it okay for Harley Quinn to mutate into some porn clown.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I had to learn to appreciate a Poison Ivy that has an ambiguous moral compass - versus just being a straight up menace. In the end I realized that having flourishes of anti-hero characteristics here and there actually gave her SOMETHING to do besides the usual stuff we've seen over the years. I mean really, how many times do we need to see Ivy storm into a room full of millionaires and steal their riches, kiss Batman, and then get knocked out? Also...and some may disagree...but I've noticed a trend mainly involving fanboys (nay, boys) who want a BAD GIRL Ivy because they just want her to be hot and sexy. They don't see the female villains having a purpose in Gotham beyond being there for the male gaze. What? Pathos? Motivations? Nah how boring, right? These are the same types who pretty much made it okay for Harley Quinn to mutate into some porn clown.


I wonder how they would react to a male equivalent who was just hot, sexy and two-dimensional evil as they want the Sirens to be.  :Stick Out Tongue:  Frankly, some blame for this has to go to Dini/Timm too, whose increasing fetishisation of Harley & Ivy kind of diluted the initial interesting take on _Thelma and Louise_. I'd go so far as to say that Dini making Ivy crueller from TNBA onward to oddly play into the notion of "she's just as bad as the Joker" was kinda damaging to the character's overall development, as a lot of people just took away the message that she was a stereotypical sadist with weird botanical proclivities. Things came to a head in _Stalked_ which was just a shade away from being outright snuff.

----------


## Deadly Garden

> I wonder how they would react to a male equivalent who was just hot, sexy and two-dimensional evil as they want the Sirens to be.  Frankly, some blame for this has to go to Dini/Timm too, whose increasing fetishisation of Harley & Ivy kind of diluted the initial interesting take on _Thelma and Louise_. I'd go so far as to say that Dini making Ivy crueller from TNBA onward to oddly play into the notion of "she's just as bad as the Joker" was kinda damaging to the character's overall development, as a lot of people just took away the message that she was a stereotypical sadist with weird botanical proclivities. Things came to a head in _Stalked_ which was just a shade away from being outright snuff.


I definitely prefer a Poison Ivy who looks beautiful - but has the brains and motivations to counterbalance the vamp side. I don't mind flirtations and manipulations via potions and the like. But within reason. There are times when she's depicted as a plant-tart walking around sucking on her fingers and heaving her chest forward. Balent did that in the first volume of Catwoman with his first go at the character and that ended up being awful. (Of course, there are plenty more examples.) "Stalked" was definitely a LOW point. Though I gotta say I think the art (Benitez) was the primary downfall and the writing secondary. The hunter becoming the hunted is an oft-used theme. BUT instead of being some haunting story - it was just Poison Ivy getting thrown around in very lewd ways with the infamous "bound" by vines panel where shes being gagged and having her boobs squeezed. Ending with her barely dressed in tatters asking for help.

I don't even want to get into Dini - because he's held in such high regard (by others). But honestly I feel burned by his weird personal agenda with Poison Ivy and her sexuality. I think initially he wanted a "buddy team" but the minute the perverts started whispering in his ear he decided to play along. And it just turned into a mob of tongue waggers demanding more - and oddly enough, some women who found their faux-lesbianism "cute".

Also, I agree about TNBA stripping away all nuance and just making her a straight up mean girl. But the dumbing down was kind of overall. The stories became bland and the animation overly simplified. I suspect to appeal to short attention spans and "kids".

----------


## PwrdOn

Effective villains need to have a dangerous and threatening presence about them, and it's not so much a matter of giving them overpowered abilities or showing off feats, but rather just having that air of awe about them when they're on the page.  Comic books have not really done a good job building up female villains as legitimate threats, even though many of them are supposedly quite powerful on paper.  If you think about why Bane is a popular character, it really doesn't have much to do with his backstory or personality, and it's more just that he's a big scary dude, and every time he shows up you know some shit is about to go down.  Even with her poison and plant powers, Ivy doesn't have anywhere near that same credibility, because when push comes to shove it usually doesn't take much to put her down for the count.  And it's not like just making her a better fighter will fix that problem either, because there are plenty of supposedly "kickass" women in comics who might be trained in 42 forms of kung fu but struggle to appear formidable on page.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I definitely prefer a Poison Ivy who looks beautiful - but has the brains and motivations to counterbalance the vamp side. I don't mind flirtations and manipulations via potions and the like. But within reason. There are times when she's depicted as a plant-tart walking around sucking on her fingers and heaving her chest forward. Balent did that in the first volume of Catwoman with his first go at the character and that ended up being awful. (Of course, there are plenty more examples.) "Stalked" was definitely a LOW point. Though I gotta say I think the art (Benitez) was the primary downfall and the writing secondary. The hunter becoming the hunted is an oft-used theme. BUT instead of being some haunting story - it was just Poison Ivy getting thrown around in very lewd ways with the infamous "bound" by vines panel where shes being gagged and having her boobs squeezed. Ending with her barely dressed in tatters asking for help.
> 
> I don't even want to get into Dini - because he's held in such high regard (by others). But honestly I feel burned by his weird personal agenda with Poison Ivy and her sexuality. I think initially he wanted a "buddy team" but the minute the perverts started whispering in his ear he decided to play along. And it just turned into a mob of tongue waggers demanding more - and oddly enough, some women who found their faux-lesbianism "cute".
> 
> Also, I agree about TNBA stripping away all nuance and just making her a straight up mean girl. But the dumbing down was kind of overall. The stories became bland and the animation overly simplified. I suspect to appeal to short attention spans and "kids".


I remember that one-two punch of "Reap What You Sow" and the _Batman and Robin_ movie in the late 90's where both Catwoman and Batgirl got to tell off Ivy about how she "Women like you give girls a bad name" and she was weak to "rely on chemicals to seduce men". Both instances so missed the point and were so annoyingly sexist in their own special ways that it was hilarious.

I completely agree with your theory about Dini's handling of Harley & Ivy and why it eroded from something with potential to shallow fan service.

As for TNBA, I loved the "Flower Girl" short story that proposed the idea that _that_ version of Poison Ivy was just a clone. It completely fits with the timeline of BTAS Ivy retiring at the end of _House and Garden_. Wasn't Dini annoyed with that twist and explicitly decried Clone Ivy being TNBA Ivy from the beginning? What was his explanation for BTAS Ivy appearing in her original design in the story then?  :Stick Out Tongue: 




> Effective villains need to have a dangerous and threatening presence about them, and it's not so much a matter of giving them overpowered abilities or showing off feats, but rather just having that air of awe about them when they're on the page.  Comic books have not really done a good job building up female villains as legitimate threats, even though many of them are supposedly quite powerful on paper.  If you think about why Bane is a popular character, it really doesn't have much to do with his backstory or personality, and it's more just that he's a big scary dude, and every time he shows up you know some shit is about to go down.  Even with her poison and plant powers, Ivy doesn't have anywhere near that same credibility, because when push comes to shove it usually doesn't take much to put her down for the count.  And it's not like just making her a better fighter will fix that problem either, because there are plenty of supposedly "kickass" women in comics who might be trained in 42 forms of kung fu but struggle to appear formidable on page.


I would prefer Ivy being more morally ambiguous like Magneto because that facilitates more prominence and appearances than her being a typical villain who makes 2-3 annual appearances (that too if we are lucky) and spends the rest of the time in limbo.

----------


## buck135

I have been chronicling all of Ivy's appearances over the past 51 years. There have been some even lower points than you mentioned Confuzzled. During Knightfall for example, Batman calls her a "witch" and kicks her in the face, thus knocking her out. Amanda Waller calls her I believe a "slut" in an old Suicide Squad issue. I have to go back and double check. Paul Dini gets a pass from me because of how brilliant BTAS is. That's where I first became an Ivy fan. If not for the Ivy/Harley pairing, neither may have ended up achieving the fan support they currently have. That said, I believe Ivy can sell comics just as well as Harley can.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I have been chronicling all of Ivy's appearances over the past 51 years. There have been some even lower points than you mentioned Confuzzled. During Knightfall for example, Batman calls her a "witch" and kicks her in the face, thus knocking her out. Amanda Waller calls her I believe a "slut" in an old Suicide Squad issue. I have to go back and double check. Paul Dini gets a pass from me because of how brilliant BTAS is. That's where I first became an Ivy fan. If not for the Ivy/Harley pairing, neither may have ended up achieving the fan support they currently have. That said, I believe Ivy can sell comics just as well as Harley can.


Oh don't get me wrong, buck. I do appreciate the exposure Dini provided Ivy through BTAS and there's no denying the truth that the myriad consequences of that exposure led her to becoming one of DC's most recognizable female characters (possibly in all of comics too). Having said that, I think later on (as in early 00's onwards) he slowly started using Ivy as little more than a crutch to prop up Harley. He also had this fascination to depict her as incredibly depraved (plant sex in the _Harley & Ivy_ miniseries, the snuff video in _Stalked_) and I've noticed that a direct result of that is a disturbing trend of some fanboys (or just boys as Deadly Garden observed) fetishizing and demonizing the character, to the extent that they lash out at Ivy fans who push for more prominence and development for the character on social media sites like Twitter and comic book sites like Bleeding Cool. It's a messy situation but also enlightening as to how entrenched the Madonna/whore complex remains in some male mentalities even to the day.

----------


## GamerSlyRatchet

> Wasn't Dini annoyed with that twist and explicitly decried Clone Ivy being TNBA Ivy from the beginning? What was his explanation for BTAS Ivy appearing in her original design in the story then?


Dini wasn't involved in that comic, so he likely disapproved of that reveal.

----------


## buck135

> Oh don't get me wrong, buck. I do appreciate the exposure Dini provided Ivy through BTAS and there's no denying the truth that the myriad consequences of that exposure led her to becoming one of DC's most recognizable female characters (possibly in all of comics too). Having said that, I think later on (as in early 00's onwards) he slowly started using Ivy as little more than a crutch to prop up Harley. He also had this fascination to depict her as incredibly depraved (plant sex in the _Harley & Ivy_ miniseries, the snuff video in _Stalked_) and I've noticed that a direct result of that is a disturbing trend of some fanboys (or just boys as Deadly Garden observed) fetishizing and demonizing the character, to the extent that they lash out at Ivy fans who push for more prominence and development for the character on social media sites like Twitter and comic book sites like Bleeding Cool. It's a messy situation but also enlightening as to how entrenched the Madonna/whore complex remains in some male mentalities even to the day.



You are absolutely correct.

----------


## darkseidpwns

She should not be a hero, she should be like Deathstroke. She should be someone with a cause, motives that she believes in and is willing to do anything which puts her at odds with heroes. Making her a hero is defanging her and eventually she'll be lost in a sea of so called generic heroes.

----------


## Confuzzled

> She should not be a hero, she should be like Deathstroke. She should be someone with a cause, motives that she believes in and is willing to do anything which puts her at odds with heroes. Making her a hero is defanging her and eventually she'll be lost in a sea of so called generic heroes.


I think the consensus is to have her be something along the lines of Emma Frost (especially circa Morrison era) rather than straight up goodie two shoes (unless it is a kiddie franchise like DC Superhero Girls).

----------


## Frontier

I feel Ivy is an extremist Supervillain on par with Magneto, but one who's a little more open to petty crime when necessary or she's in the mood and isn't completely beholden to her eco-terrorism, but as a woman who prides herself on her classiness, looks, and as an intellectual in a patriarchal society she has a lot in common with Emma (and Moonstone, as a matter of fact).

----------


## MentalManipulator

> I feel Ivy is an extremist Supervillain on par with Magneto, but one who's a little more open to petty crime when necessary or she's in the mood and isn't completely beholden to her eco-terrorism, but as a woman who prides herself on her classiness, looks, and as an intellectual in a patriarchal society she has a lot in common with Emma (and Moonstone, as a matter of fact).


Brilliantly put :-)

----------


## Confuzzled

Jessica Chastain on her interest in playing Poison Ivy




> _I'm interested in all things where the characters are strong and dynamic, and not stereotypes or objects. I like female characters that are subjects, not objects. And so, if Poison Ivy happens to be that, sure. Throw my hat in the ring._

----------


## MentalManipulator

> Jessica Chastain on her interest in playing Poison Ivy


Hope the writers are taking notes. Having her in the movie would be a blessing. The Poison Ivy in this should be the confident scientist she deserves to be and not a headless sexual object. This is Robbie's role already. 
Chastain fits the bill perfectly....gorgeous yet deep and intimidating.

----------


## PwrdOn

Chastain has the perfect look for Ivy and she has incredible range as an actress so she could easily nail the role, not to mention that casting her would dramatically raise the profile of the movie.  The question is though whether the studio expects the movie to be successful enough to justify paying for that kind of star power, or whether it's just intended to be another one of those low budget wankfests like Charlie's Angels or Sucker Punch.

----------


## Frontier

The _Justice League Action_ panel at Wonder Con premiered a Poison Ivy episode, "Garden of evil."

The highlight, apparently? Poison Ivy versus Swamp Thing  :Cool: .

----------


## Confuzzled

> The _Justice League Action_ panel at Wonder Con premiered a Poison Ivy episode, "Garden of evil."
> 
> The highlight, apparently? Poison Ivy versus Swamp Thing .


Boo, _versus?_ I wanted to see Swamp Thing wooing Poison Ivy.



 :Stick Out Tongue:  Can't say I expected anything other than a purely villainous Ivy when Dini's involved though. Hopefully it has snappy dialogue and pretty and crisp animation at the least.

----------


## darkseidpwns

Only a real man or woman can woo Ivy, ST is just 
fugly green goo... 
Incase you cant tell I'm being sarcastic.

----------


## MentalManipulator

Never saw this cartoon but will definitely see the Ivy episode. 

By the way, don;t know if this was posted already but I found a the rough design of Ivy in the show:

Tumblr_okep4gQMPG1qfrvhzo1_540.jpg

Very simple but I like. it fits well with the other designs. It's basically a more detailed version of the TNBA one which I approve. Always thougt that one was too minimal.

----------


## Frontier

> Boo, _versus?_ I wanted to see Swamp Thing wooing Poison Ivy.
> 
> 
> 
>  Can't say I expected anything other than a purely villainous Ivy when Dini's involved though. Hopefully it has snappy dialogue and pretty and crisp animation at the least.


Well, she can still be crushing or gushing over the avatar of the green while she's trying to kill him...

I think a purely villainous Ivy should be pretty fun on this show, and work well. I wouldn't have expected otherwise, especially when we have DC's cash-cow Harley Quinn introduced as a common Gotham crook who gets one-shotted by Zatanna in the last episode aired over here.

I don't think you need to worry about crisp animation and snappy dialogue when it comes to JLA.  



> Never saw this cartoon but will definitely see the Ivy episode. 
> 
> By the way, don;t know if this was posted already but I found a the rough design of Ivy in the show:
> 
> Tumblr_okep4gQMPG1qfrvhzo1_540.jpg
> 
> Very simple but I like. it fits well with the other designs. It's basically a more detailed version of the TNBA one which I approve. Always thougt that one was too minimal.


Shane Glines, a designer, said he actually went in a bit of a different direction for Ivy's design compared to this rough version.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> Well, she can still be crushing or gushing over the avatar of the green while she's trying to kill him...
> 
> I think a purely villainous Ivy should be pretty fun on this show, and work well. I wouldn't have expected otherwise, especially when we have DC's cash-cow Harley Quinn introduced as a common Gotham crook who gets one-shotted by Zatanna in the last episode aired over here.
> 
> I don't think you need to worry about crisp animation and snappy dialogue when it comes to JLA.  
> 
> Shane Glines, a designer, said he actually went in a bit of a different direction for Ivy's design compared to this rough version.


Cool..curious to see how it turns out...Hope he went with a smaller head...what'up with huge heads for female in DC animation? Go figure.

Does anyone know when it airs?

----------


## DragonPiece

Looks like King is finally gonna have Ivy be a villain again in war of jokes and riddles, I'm pretty excited by this.

----------


## Frontier

Paget Brewster (Criminal Minds) will be playing Poison Ivy in the _Batman and Harley Quinn_ animated movie.

In it she'll be teaming-up with Jason Woodrue to incite a global catastrophe that necessitates Batman, Nightwing, and Harley Quinn to team-up to stop them.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> Paget Brewster (Criminal Minds) will be playing Poison Ivy in the _Batman and Harley Quinn_ animated movie.
> 
> In it she'll be teaming-up with Jason Woodrue to incite a global catastrophe that necessitates Batman, Nightwing, and Harley Quinn to team-up to stop them.


Cool to see Ivy will have a big role to play. Bummed that the design looks like a cheap version of TNBA though...worried on how Pam will look.

----------


## HandofPrometheus

Poison Ivy in Jokes and Riddles. I know alot of people don't like her new 52 outfit but it's nice to see it again. I liked it mostly in the Birds of Prey new 52 title.
404s4erhycpy.jpg

----------


## darkeyes

Here are a couple screen grabs I did from the Justice League Action episode.

ivy justice 01.jpg
ivy justice 02.jpg

----------


## Frontier

> Here are a couple screen grabs I did from the Justice League Action episode.
> 
> ivy justice 01.jpg
> ivy justice 02.jpg


I love that leaf beret  :Wink: .

----------


## Confuzzled

Good god, that is a lot of Ivy news in a few hours. I hope that was the norm.  :Stick Out Tongue: 

Since when did Jason Woodrue start going by "Plant Master"? And it's odd that he is teaming up with Ivy when the New 52 cut his ties to her origin (Rebirth confirmed it is still canon by acknowledging Pam working for Wayne Enterprises in _ASB #7_). I wonder if Batman is hiring Harley to make a psychological play at Ivy. 

I like the way that New 52 design in illustrated on the Batman cover. I think King's take on the character will be a step down from the most recent iterations however.

Heh, that leaf beret is adorable. <3 That whole JLA look is refreshing for Ivy. Shane Glines and the other character designers on the show have been doing a great job.

----------


## Confuzzled

I don't think this has been posted here before. Concept art video for _Injustice 2_'s Poison Ivy, where we see her rocking quite a few leafy/floral designs. Hope some of them make it in the final game as her alternate skins.

----------


## MentalManipulator

Good to hear so many news. Ivy is going to be more and more prominent. So happy!




> Poison Ivy in Jokes and Riddles. I know alot of people don't like her new 52 outfit but it's nice to see it again. I liked it mostly in the Birds of Prey new 52 title.
> 404s4erhycpy.jpg


Great she's taking part in this. Not my favorite costume of her indeed but the art so far looks great!




> Here are a couple screen grabs I did from the Justice League Action episode.
> 
> ivy justice 01.jpg
> ivy justice 02.jpg


This I like less. I prefered the rough sketch. This one looks silly and too childish. I mean the Power Puff Girls eyes is really ugly. And the beret makes the characters looks silly and laughable. 






> I don't think this has been posted here before. Concept art video for _Injustice 2_'s Poison Ivy, where we see her rocking quite a few leafy/floral designs. Hope some of them make it in the final game as her alternate skins.


Thanks for sharing ! Great videos. Again I prefer some of the earlier concepts. The final one is good but the hair looks to like a "mom" hair and the assimetric colar bugs me.

----------


## adrikito

> Poison Ivy in Jokes and Riddles. I know alot of people don't like her new 52 outfit but it's nice to see it again. I liked it mostly in the Birds of Prey new 52 title.
> 404s4erhycpy.jpg


Yes, is his N52 costume..

----------


## GamerSlyRatchet

> This I like less. I prefered the rough sketch. This one looks silly and too childish. I mean the Power Puff Girls eyes is really ugly. And the beret makes the characters looks silly and laughable.


To be fair, it is an action/comedy. The designs are not supposed to be 100% serious. 

Also, I thought she looked cute with it.

----------


## Frontier

Isn't Bombshell Ivy supposed to be French? It probably wasn't an intentional nod, but it's interesting seeing her with a French beret nonetheless  :Smile: .

----------


## Green Ghost

> Poison Ivy in Jokes and Riddles. I know alot of people don't like her new 52 outfit but it's nice to see it again. I liked it mostly in the Birds of Prey new 52 title.
> 404s4erhycpy.jpg


It seem to be a variation of the New52 costume (more green, hands are not covered etc.), but I am also happy to see it again. Hope they do her justice and she won't just be a goon to Joker or Riddler. Right now I don't know who she would side with, she despises the Joker and Riddler stole her researce in Zero Year...We'll see.




> Paget Brewster (Criminal Minds) will be playing Poison Ivy in the _Batman and Harley Quinn_ animated movie.
> 
> In it she'll be teaming-up with Jason Woodrue to incite a global catastrophe that necessitates Batman, Nightwing, and Harley Quinn to team-up to stop them.


Here's a featurette showing Ivy & Woodrue (who is referred to as Floronic Man):



So far it looks like a fast Harley-money-grab...not a fan.




> Here are a couple screen grabs I did from the Justice League Action episode.
> 
> ivy justice 01.jpg
> ivy justice 02.jpg


Thanks for the screens! Not a fan of the eyes, but I like that they tried something new with the costume.

----------


## MentalManipulator

I don't follow the show but curious to know. Do you guys know what's going on with Ivy in GOTHAM now? 
Feels like a long time with no news.

----------


## darkeyes

I was hoping Ivy would play a significant role in Gotham, but it seems the show never knew what to do with her.  She only pops up in quick cameos only to disappear for several episodes.  Maybe the new 'adult' Ivy will eventually turn into a main villain and add some depth to the character.  I have not heard of any plot developments involving Ivy so far for the next season, though.

----------


## GamerSlyRatchet

Beyond being reunited with Selina and Bruce and pulling some cons, she hasn't done anything. Her actress said she's doing a lot more in the upcoming second half of the season, but I wouldn't get my hopes up.

----------


## Confuzzled

Ivy represents the messiest part of the show IMO. They started her out as a kid to be a peer to Bruce and Selina, but the child actress looked much younger than the other two actors, so the dynamics between the three were wonky. They then aged her up in the cheesiest way possible, to, I have a strong feeling, utilize her seductress aspect. But since the character was still technically a child and with the criticisms regarding the character's aging up being little more than an excuse to add another sexy lady to the show, I think the showrunners balked at going all out with exploring Ivy's sexuality.  

So now she is stuck being a clumsy "con girl" with an already hackneyed backstory.

----------


## MentalManipulator

It's a shame. Hope the movie does her more justice then. We still never had a really good on screen live version of Ivy.

----------


## Confuzzled

Bryce Dallas Howard throws her hat into the ring to play Poison Ivy in the DCEU

----------


## MentalManipulator

A better option then Fox or Stephanie but not as good an actress as Jessica IMO.

----------


## buck135

poison_ivy_1966_by_ruizburgos-d7gjurj.jpg


> A better option then Fox or Stephanie but not as good an actress as Jessica IMO.


I agree. I still am hoping for Olivia Wilde. I love this picture and it looks just like her.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> poison_ivy_1966_by_ruizburgos-d7gjurj.jpg
> 
> I agree. I still am hoping for Olivia Wilde. I love this picture and it looks just like her.


She would be great too :-)

----------


## Atlanta96

I love Bryce, and as great as it would be to have a natural redhead in the role I just don't see her as Ivy. Jessica is a bit closer to my ideal portrayal but she's still not quite it. My preference is still Eva Green, she'd look good as a redhead and she's plays a damn good femme fatale.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> I love Bryce, and as great as it would be to have a natural redhead in the role I just don't see her as Ivy. Jessica is a bit closer to my ideal portrayal but she's still not quite it. My preference is still Eva Green, she'd look good as a redhead and she's plays a damn good femme fatale.


OMG Yes! Didn't think of her but after watching Penny Dreadful she would rock as Ivy. My order is Jessica>Eva>Olivia>Bryce

----------


## Deadly Garden

The finalized design (mostly) from Justice League Action. Haven't seen the episode yet only the screen grabs.IMG_6968.jpg

----------


## Atlanta96

> The finalized design (mostly) from Justice League Action. Haven't seen the episode yet only the screen grabs.IMG_6968.jpg


The leaf randomly placed on top of her head kind of ruins it.

----------


## Frontier

> The finalized design (mostly) from Justice League Action. Haven't seen the episode yet only the screen grabs.IMG_6968.jpg


I like it. It's definitely a little atypical from the classic look, especially with the darker colors, leaf beret, and with only one legging (is that a fashion thing?), but still a nice design for Ivy  :Smile:

----------


## PwrdOn

> Bryce Dallas Howard throws her hat into the ring to play Poison Ivy in the DCEU


She did spend an entire movie running around the jungle in heels, so she's certainly qualified to play Ivy in that respect.

----------


## Confuzzled

> The finalized design (mostly) from Justice League Action. Haven't seen the episode yet only the screen grabs.IMG_6968.jpg


Yes, love it. Matches the fun and cutesy aesthetics of the show.




> The leaf randomly placed on top of her head kind of ruins it.


It looks much better in the screen grabs so I assume it looks good in motion.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> The finalized design (mostly) from Justice League Action. Haven't seen the episode yet only the screen grabs.Attachment 47874


Like the effort but still think it looks very silly. She could be a laughable villain in the Power Puff Girls cartoon. I understand it's a kid's show but Wonder Woman looks cool so...no excuses there.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Like the effort but still think it looks very silly. She could be a laughable villain in the Power Puff Girls cartoon. I understand it's a kid's show *but Wonder Woman looks cool so...*


Does she though?  :Wink:  That hairstyle is pretty divisive lol

I think Ivy's design is pretty on par with Wondy's. It has got the same swagger but with added cutesyness and elegance. That legging is the only part I'm torn over. As in, I'm not sure whether it should be there at all or whether it should be there for the other leg as well. I'm no fashion expert though so I don't envy the folks who have to create new outfits for Ivy, a character whose classic costume is hard to eclipse.

----------


## Frontier

> Does she though?  That hairstyle is pretty divisive lol
> 
> I think Ivy's design is pretty on par with Wondy's. It has got the same swagger but with added cutesyness and elegance. That legging is the only part I'm torn over. As in, I'm not sure whether it should be there at all or whether it should be there for the other leg as well. I'm no fashion expert though so I don't envy the folks who have to create new outfits for Ivy, a character whose classic costume is hard to eclipse.


Yeah, I'm wondering what the purpose of the legging is there...maybe they were going for a film noir, Femme Fatale, look? It would also explain the leaf hat.  

And Wonder Woman's JLA anime hair is glorious  :Wink: .

----------


## Deadly Garden

I'm fine with the Justice League Action design - it's new and different. Frankly, I'm a bit put off that the Batman/Harley Quinn movie is featuring a TNBA tribute of sorts. Because it strays just enough from the TV series to look weird. It's like they wanted to dismiss the pixie proportions but now she looks "sausage'y" - those legs. Also - I wonder what Diane Pershing is up to these days because IMDB lists her last voice actress project as being in 2010. She would've been ideal for me - and I'm not familiar with this other actress beyond her tv roles - her voice escapes me.

** Update: Finally saw "Garden of Evil" and it was great. (French language though. But even that acting was great.)

dg-gardenofevil-03.jpg

dg-gardenofevil-06.jpg

dg-gardenofevil-07.jpg

----------


## Confuzzled

Diane Pershing was writing movie reviews for _The Malibu Times_ until 4 months back. I last remember reading her reviews for _Fantastic Beasts_(she hated it) and _Doctor Strange_ and _Arrival_(both of which she enjoyed). I think she has retired from voice acting. 

However, last year she had participated in a delightful BTAS fan podcast interview discussing her role and casting as Ivy, her fondness for the character and how she still gets recognition thanks to her, the behind the scenes workings of the show, and her illustrious life (she has dabbled in many different professions, from touring back-up singer to prolific romance novelist!  :Big Grin: ). It is a great listen and insight into the life of the woman who was the first to bring Poison Ivy to life outside of comics: https://soundcloud.com/btas-podcast/...a-gospodnetich

Pershing's interview starts somewhere in the middle of the podcast so you can skip about a bit unless you want to hear a couple of fans discussing the _Pretty Poison_ episode. Don't miss the very beginning though. Pershing plays Pamela Isley one last time.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## MentalManipulator

> Does she though?  That hairstyle is pretty divisive lol
> 
> I think Ivy's design is pretty on par with Wondy's. It has got the same swagger but with added cutesyness and elegance. That legging is the only part I'm torn over. As in, I'm not sure whether it should be there at all or whether it should be there for the other leg as well. I'm no fashion expert though so I don't envy the folks who have to create new outfits for Ivy, a character whose classic costume is hard to eclipse.


Yep. It's not perfect of course but at least it DOESN'T have the cutesy factor. It doesn't feet adult Poison Ivy to be cute. I understand what they're doing in DC Super Hero Girls (even though she's just a completely different character) but here they should make more of a femme fatale.

On another note I was having fun with this website and tried to put together what I would like to see, lookwise, for the Sirens in the upcoming movie. 

GothamCitySirens.jpg

Keep in mind that they don't have plant based costumes options so the straps on Ivy would be more like vines and ivies.

----------


## Deadly Garden

> Poison Ivy in Jokes and Riddles. I know alot of people don't like her new 52 outfit but it's nice to see it again. I liked it mostly in the Birds of Prey new 52 title.
> Attachment 47479


I'm wondering if this is another instance of having an all-star cover that has little to say about the actual contents of the story inside. I've got plenty of back-issues in my collection with Poison Ivy on the cover and she's nowhere to be found inside.

Also...slight tangent. I looked up one of the first postings about this arc on Tom King's twitter: https://twitter.com/TomKingTK/status/848910571747643392 - and the responses are bordering on sycophantic by what seems to be the same handful of Poison Ivy fanatics (to the point where they're even putting me off). I'm curious to know if they actually think they are doing anything other than annoying creators and having a reverse impact on her appearances. I can't imagine even bothering with a character if it involved being bombarded by a bunch of loons making demands at the mere mention of her name.

----------


## Frontier

> Yep. It's not perfect of course but at least it DOESN'T have the cutesy factor. It doesn't feet adult Poison Ivy to be cute. I understand what they're doing in DC Super Hero Girls (even though she's just a completely different character) but here they should make more of a femme fatale.


I feel like they were trying to go for a Film Noir Femme Fatale vibe with her JLA design, or at least that's the sense from some of the fashion choices she's sporting in it.

----------


## Atlanta96

> I'm wondering if this is another instance of having an all-star cover that has little to say about the actual contents of the story inside. I've got plenty of back-issues in my collection with Poison Ivy on the cover and she's nowhere to be found inside.
> 
> Also...slight tangent. I looked up one of the first postings about this arc on Tom King's twitter: https://twitter.com/TomKingTK/status/848910571747643392 - and the responses are bordering on sycophantic by what seems to be the same handful of Poison Ivy fanatics (to the point where they're even putting me off). I'm curious to know if they actually think they are doing anything other than annoying creators and having a reverse impact on her appearances. I can't imagine even bothering with a character if it involved being bombarded by a bunch of loons making demands at the mere mention of her name.


Wow. I'm all for being passionately critical about things, even angrily critical, but I draw the line at going after creators directly. Let the guy do his work in peace. I don't scream at Scott Snyder on Twitter for screwing up the Bat-Family.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I'm wondering if this is another instance of having an all-star cover that has little to say about the actual contents of the story inside. I've got plenty of back-issues in my collection with Poison Ivy on the cover and she's nowhere to be found inside.
> 
> Also...slight tangent. I looked up one of the first postings about this arc on Tom King's twitter: https://twitter.com/TomKingTK/status/848910571747643392 - and the responses are bordering on sycophantic by what seems to be the same handful of Poison Ivy fanatics (to the point where they're even putting me off). I'm curious to know if they actually think they are doing anything other than annoying creators and having a reverse impact on her appearances. I can't imagine even bothering with a character if it involved being bombarded by a bunch of loons making demands at the mere mention of her name.


Yes, they are very passionate. But to be fair, it was DC who said it greenlit the mini _specifically because of the social media demand for the character_, and the writer Amy Chu confirmed it and even started the #MoreDCPoisonIvy tag to facilitate more prominent display of the demand for the character. So if the company and its employees are creating the impression that if you want more of the character then make it known, I don't blame the fans for doing just that.

Frankly, I'm glad people are voicing how they want the character to be portrayed. In the 00's, _she was all over the place_, and creators like Dini and Kevin Smith ran roughshod over her. If this kind of vocal (if overpassionate) fanbase is there to be critical of such interpretations and try to ensure quality characterization by demand, then I'm all for it. I'm tired of seeing her constantly reduced to a fetishized Harley Quinn accessory or a strawman psychopath.




> Wow. I'm all for being passionately critical about things, even angrily critical, but I draw the line at going after creators directly. Let the guy do his work in peace. I don't scream at Scott Snyder on Twitter for screwing up the Bat-Family.


Lol didn't you say you got blocked by Greg Rucka and Kate Leth though?  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Atlanta96

> Lol didn't you say you got blocked by Greg Rucka and Kate Leth though?


Leth uses an autoblocker. Rucka blocked me for criticizing his treatment of Frank Cho. I've never gone after another creator over the quality of their work like certain upset fans do all the bloody time.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Leth uses an autoblocker. Rucka blocked me for criticizing his treatment of Frank Cho. I've never gone after another creator over the quality of their work like certain upset fans do all the bloody time.


Not much of a distinction there lol. And from some of your comments that I have seen, you use a far stronger tone to talk about creators than these folks seem to be doing. 

And I doubt these fans "go after" King "all the bloody time". They don't even seem to be "going after him" in the comments there. They just seem to not like Ivy being a part of the Gotham riff-raff again.

Personally I think it is premature on their part to assume Ivy's motivations for participating in the Arkham Rogues War. But again, this is after that terrible _Forever Evil_ event, so I can see where their concerns and distrust are coming from in that context as well.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> I feel like they were trying to go for a Film Noir Femme Fatale vibe with her JLA design, or at least that's the sense from some of the fashion choices she's sporting in it.


Maybe. I understand but she looks like a tourist visiting Paris for the first time. lol

Thats said I liked the episode. Very silly but fun.

----------


## Confuzzled

Ivy teased to make an appearance in _Batgirl and the Birds of Prey_




> Plus, a couple of female associates who have been former teammates of the Birds of Prey are going to make an appearance in #11, #12 and #13. One of them is Catwoman and the other one is Poison Ivy.

----------


## Atlanta96

> Not much of a distinction there lol. And from some of your comments that I have seen, you use a far stronger tone to talk about creators than these folks seem to be doing. 
> 
> And I doubt these fans "go after" King "all the bloody time". They don't even seem to be "going after him" in the comments there. They just seem to not like Ivy being a part of the Gotham riff-raff again.
> 
> Personally I think it is premature on their part to assume Ivy's motivations for participating in the Arkham Rogues War. But again, this is after that terrible _Forever Evil_ event, so I can see where their concerns and distrust are coming from in that context as well.


LOL no, calling a creator out on their mistreatment of a co-worker is a long shot from inhibiting their creative freedom. I may have strong opinions about certain writers but at least I don't send them directly to those writers like far too many people do. They have the right to make whatever terrible stories they want

----------


## Confuzzled

> LOL no, calling a creator out on their mistreatment of a co-worker is a long shot from inhibiting their creative freedom. I may have strong opinions about certain writers but at least I don't send them directly to those writers like far too many people do. They have the right to make whatever terrible stories they want


Well, I remember you saying a certain creator/director recently hired on a DCEU flick was mentally unstable. And I don't see how creative differences are "mistreatments". If Rucka did not like Cho's work and if DC had given him approval rights then he was just doing his job, no matter what Cho claimed.

Getting back to topic, where are these people criticizing King's writing? Apparently King was the one who told them that Ivy was appearing in the book so they were waiting for it. Even the strongest "attack" is just a concern over a portrayal and the user apologized for it right away. I'm sure King doesn't mind all that much otherwise he would have blocked them. Many creators like Scott Snyder, Amy Chu, Tom King, Francis Manapul, Hope Larson, Tula Lotay and even Ivy's video game voice artist Tasia Valenza engage with Ivy fans frequently and encourage feedback so it doesn't seem like the toxic atmosphere you're making it out to be. Again, the whole thing was initiated by DC itself, crediting Ivy's social media fan following for making her mini happen.

----------


## PwrdOn

I'm leery of these accusations of creator harassment in general.  I mean, if you create something that people even remotely care about, then somewhere out there in the vast expanse of the Internet there is going to be someone who dislikes it sufficiently to say nasty things to you because of it.  This isn't to say that this sort of behavior should be encouraged, but as far as most people are concerned, this is pretty much the ONLY type of interaction that ever goes on between creators and fans and that's not really accurate.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I'm leery of these accusations of creator harassment in general.  I mean, if you create something that people even remotely care about, then somewhere out there in the vast expanse of the Internet there is going to be someone who dislikes it sufficiently to say nasty things to you because of it.  This isn't to say that this sort of behavior should be encouraged, but as far as most people are concerned, this is pretty much the ONLY type of interaction that ever goes on between creators and fans and that's not really accurate.


And in this instance, I believe many of the creators wanted the Ivy fandom to "stan" and generate hype for their stories featuring Poison Ivy on social media. So I'm sure if they were willing to use the staunch fandom to their advantage, they were also open to the possibility of receiving criticisms (as long as the complaints weren't personal or nasty in nature).

----------


## Confuzzled

Injustice 2 Poison Ivy gameplay




LOVE the piranha plant baby cohort!

Also, the official Injustice 2 Twitter account had posted a clip with Ivy and Batman having snappy banter: https://twitter.com/InjusticeGame/st...54235442954240

----------


## buck135

I love it. Less than one month until the game is released.

----------


## Confuzzled

CBR ranked Ivy's costume as the Most Iconic Femme Fatale Costume

----------


## Frontier

> CBR ranked Ivy's costume as the Most Iconic Femme Fatale Costume


And I can see why, especially given they used a Guillem March Ivy illustration to depict her outfit  :Wink: .

Selina better watch out, soon being the Feline Femme Fatale of Gotham won't mean as much anymore  :Stick Out Tongue: .

Feels kind of weird to see them list some heroes on there though. I mean, their costumes also leave little to the imagination and their very sexually forward women (except maybe Raven), but I wouldn't say it's in the vein of a Femme Fatale. Though I guess Raven's Trigon connection and her relationship with Wally and Dick in Wolfman and Perez's NTT can kinda fit her under that descriptor.

----------


## Atlanta96

> CBR ranked Ivy's costume as the Most Iconic Femme Fatale Costume


Number one should've been Vampirella.

----------


## Confuzzled

YouTube commentator Grace Randolph on _Injustice 2_'s Poison Ivy gameplay and Ivy vs. the omnipresent and overshadowing Harley Quinn




Haha, I agree about "cabbage not being a sexy vegetable". That's why I wasn't too hot on that suit but didn't realise it until she pointed out cabbage bra.  :Stick Out Tongue:  Hopefully the alternative skins for Ivy are much better looking.

----------


## Deadly Garden

I'm waiting for this lil darling to arrive by mail. I was joking with a friend last night that all the other women got some sort of historical bend to their bombshell character figures like a riveter or pilot etc and Poison Ivy got lingerie model.

71WDs+Nxl4L._SY550_.jpg

----------


## Deadly Garden

> I'm leery of these accusations of creator harassment in general.  I mean, if you create something that people even remotely care about, then somewhere out there in the vast expanse of the Internet there is going to be someone who dislikes it sufficiently to say nasty things to you because of it.  This isn't to say that this sort of behavior should be encouraged, but as far as most people are concerned, this is pretty much the ONLY type of interaction that ever goes on between creators and fans and that's not really accurate.


My problem isn't using social media to interact with creative teams tackling projects of personal interest. However - there's a certain air of petulance and entitlement that I can't support. I'm not going to name "names" or "groups" that seem to spend days on end stalking and calculating efforts to force their own narrative. Basically leaving no room for interpretation unless it measures up to their very stringent demands. It could be generational - it could be specifically Twitter. A platform not necessarily intended for long winded rants. Whenever I look up a Twitter post or follow an Ivy themed hashtag its usually the same couple of people bombarding the thread with responses. I personally find it irritating because it leaves no room for different points of view and immediately puts the writer and/or illustrator on the defense. Just a flood of inane questions asked over and over before the projects even begin. So...sure...speak your mind Ivy fans - but have some manners.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I'm waiting for this lil darling to arrive by mail. I was joking with a friend last night that all the other women got some sort of historical bend to their bombshell character figures like a riveter or pilot etc and Poison Ivy got lingerie model.
> 
> 71WDs+Nxl4L._SY550_.jpg


Bombshell Ivy's a tribute to Bettie Page, the pin-up inspiration behind Silver Age Ivy's look.




> My problem isn't using social media to interact with creative teams tackling projects of personal interest. However - there's a certain air of petulance and entitlement that I can't support. I'm not going to name "names" or "groups" that seem to spend days on end stalking and calculating efforts to force their own narrative. Basically leaving no room for interpretation unless it measures up to their very stringent demands. It could be generational - it could be specifically Twitter. A platform not necessarily intended for long winded rants. Whenever I look up a Twitter post or follow an Ivy themed hashtag its usually the same couple of people bombarding the thread with responses. I personally find it irritating because it leaves no room for different points of view and immediately puts the writer and/or illustrator on the defense. Just a flood of inane questions asked over and over before the projects even begin. So...sure...speak your mind Ivy fans - but have some manners.


I would have been more reproachful of these fans too if DC hadn't spent more than a decade being unsure of what to do with the character. She's almost 51 years old and still not tapped to her fullest potential, so I can understand some people getting impatient and hoping to see progress with her in their lifetime. Regarding their sense of entitlement and petulance, if that gets the job done to focus on Ivy then so be it.* Unfortunately, as much as virtues like "politeness" and "manners" are made to sound appealing, practical instances have shown time and again that even the smallest of things get done only thanks to "outrage", hence the perpetuation of this outrage culture. How telling was it that DC finally gave Ivy her own mini in 50 years and credited folks who hijacked the company's social media campaigns on Twitter for the initiative? I get what you are saying, but it seems dissonant with actual reality.

*In their defense, the instances I've come across them, they have been pretty civil (overzealous at times? Yes, but mostly civil).

----------


## rosenrose

> My problem isn't using social media to interact with creative teams tackling projects of personal interest. However - there's a certain air of petulance and entitlement that I can't support. I'm not going to name "names" or "groups" that seem to spend days on end stalking and calculating efforts to force their own narrative. Basically leaving no room for interpretation unless it measures up to their very stringent demands. It could be generational - it could be specifically Twitter. A platform not necessarily intended for long winded rants. Whenever I look up a Twitter post or follow an Ivy themed hashtag its usually the same couple of people bombarding the thread with responses. I personally find it irritating because it leaves no room for different points of view and immediately puts the writer and/or illustrator on the defense. Just a flood of inane questions asked over and over before the projects even begin. So...sure...speak your mind Ivy fans - but have some manners.


Accusing people of making "inane" questions and statements and perpetrating the myth that angry feminists are gonna "take away our characters" as well as pushing "their narrative" because we are vocal about our favorite character is rude. I would appreciate if you'd express your criticism directly and not by complaining about us on a forum, effectively silencing the other side of the argument. First of all there is no "our narrative". #PoisonIvyLeague consists of people with vastly different opinions who agree on one thing: More Poison Ivy. Of course I will buy and review the books I like and enjoy.
It's weird that the Poison Ivy fandom annoys you so much that you had to complain about us. Really? We are entitled? My DMs and mentions are filled with death and rape messages from Harley Quinn and Batman fans who tell me to shut up or they will rape me and dismember my body, who tell me every single day to drink poison or commit suicide with bleach.
Furthermore you are in no position to judge what kind of relationship we have with certain writers or artists. What we talk about in private and what we get in response.

The only narrative being pushed here is YOUR narrative. The narrative of people who freak out when a different opinion appears. At the end of the day we are only doing what DC officially told us to do. It's right there, in their official blog. The creators you mention have appraised our actions publicly multiple times both in social media and at cons. 

Last thing: I only represent myself here and vaguely the ideas that my friends agree with. If you have a problem with what we do: ignore us or have the minimum amount of decency required to contact us and give us a chance to explain ourselves instead of whining about people and actions you DON'T know in an internet forum.

----------


## Confuzzled

> My DMs and mentions are filled with death and rape messages from Harley Quinn and Batman fans who tell me to shut up or they will rape me and dismember my body, who tell me every single day to drink poison or commit suicide with bleach.


That's sickening to just hear so I can't imagine how it must be for you. Nobody should make death/rape/mutilating threats (even if they are empty) and suggest suicide. _And all over fictional characters!_ Some people are incredibly miserable in and at life.

----------


## Jokerz79

I always had this idea for a Poison Ivy and Ra's Al Ghul team up with me realizing Batman's Rogues gallery has two of DC's biggest eco-terrorist in it.  So the story is Ra's develops a chemical when deployed around the globe would cause plants to grow uncontrollably which would cause massive deaths and destruction of most if not all major cities and cleanse the Earth and let it heal from humanity damage.  Some problem there is a problem with the chemical and he needs Poison Ivy's help to perfect it and she gladly does and they got to his mountain retreat and plant their bombs all over the globe an now it's time to start setting them off.  Batman shows up and defeats Ra's men and reveals Barbara and Tim have hacked into his systems and while they couldn't stop the bombs they have set all the bombs to go off at once and Dick and Damian have put one bomb in his retreat so Ra's either has to allow authorities to go and collect the bombs around the world and deactivate them or set them all off now including the one in his base which will kill him too.  Poison Ivy tells Ra's to detonate the bombs and save the world from man's abuse and if their lives are forfeited it is a small price.  Ra's just congratulates Batman and calls off his men Ivy is furious and calls Ra's a fake who doesn't care about the Earth. Ra's becomes angered and yells he's been saving the planet since before her great grandparents were even born and she calls him a liar he was saving himself.  He's an immortal thanks to his Lazarus pit and he never cared about the Earth just protecting the world so he had a place to live. That's all I got but I wanted it to always end with her being the true believer in her cause and her point out how Ra's wasn't.

----------


## Deadly Garden

> Accusing people of making "inane" questions and statements and perpetrating the myth that angry feminists are gonna "take away our characters" as well as pushing "their narrative" because we are vocal about our favorite character is rude. I would appreciate if you'd express your criticism directly and not by complaining about us on a forum, effectively silencing the other side of the argument. First of all there is no "our narrative". #PoisonIvyLeague consists of people with vastly different opinions who agree on one thing: More Poison Ivy. Of course I will buy and review the books I like and enjoy.
> It's weird that the Poison Ivy fandom annoys you so much that you had to complain about us. Really? We are entitled? My DMs and mentions are filled with death and rape messages from Harley Quinn and Batman fans who tell me to shut up or they will rape me and dismember my body, who tell me every single day to drink poison or commit suicide with bleach.
> Furthermore you are in no position to judge what kind of relationship we have with certain writers or artists. What we talk about in private and what we get in response.
> 
> The only narrative being pushed here is YOUR narrative. The narrative of people who freak out when a different opinion appears. At the end of the day we are only doing what DC officially told us to do. It's right there, in their official blog. The creators you mention have appraised our actions publicly multiple times both in social media and at cons. 
> 
> Last thing: I only represent myself here and vaguely the ideas that my friends agree with. If you have a problem with what we do: ignore us or have the minimum amount of decency required to contact us and give us a chance to explain ourselves instead of whining about people and actions you DON'T know in an internet forum.


Hilarious. All you've done is further prove my point that there's a movement of loons who trade in spiraling logic and are experts at complaining and self-victimization. You're incensed that I called out childish behavior that is being displayed on social media (a public arena) in another public arena - these community boards. I didn't realize I needed permission from the overlords to discuss things openly.

Know this...one thing you are not going to do is come for my credentials. I've run a Poison Ivy themed site for at east 21 years and have collected comic books for over 40 years. I know this character like the back of my hand. If ANYBODY feels a gain or loss in regards to Ivy's legacy it's me. So don't ever address me as if I have no idea what I'm talking about. The whole point of my very BRIEF comment - a comment that left you strangely triggered - was that more harm is being done than good with these blitzkrieg style social media calculations. I enjoy reading over the opinions or reactions to news - but inevitably the more mature exchanges get steamrolled over by so much mean girl style tag teaming. It's as if a select few felt a bit of shine with "POISON IVY: CYCLE OF LIFE AND DEATH" and now mistake themselves for stars. You accuse others of not "trying" to understand your point of view - yet your post seems to exist as nothing more than a sass-mouthed style personal attack. (Then you have the gall to toss in accusations of anti-feminism. Puh-leese.) If you cant engage without careening into melodrama maybe you need to self evaluate. This place is usually light-hearted and informative but now...

----------


## Punisher007

> She did spend an entire movie running around the jungle in heels, so she's certainly qualified to play Ivy in that respect.


I like Bryce, and she's a good actress.  But there's never really been a role that I've seen her in where she really gives off the "sensual/seductive" vibe.  Which is why I'm not sure if Ivy is the right role for her.

My personal picks would be Evan Rachel Wood or Jessica Chastain.

----------


## Confuzzled

> It's a shame. Hope the movie does her more justice then. We still never had a really good on screen live version of Ivy.


You will be happy to know that Ivy's storyline in _Gotham_ is finally, _finally_ going somewhere.  :Smile:  She teamed up with Cobblepot in the last episode, setting up a wacky and fun alliance. Interview with the actors who play proto-Penguin and Poison Ivy on the unexpected alliance between their characters

----------


## rosenrose

> Hilarious. All you've done is further prove my point that there's a movement of loons who trade in spiraling logic and are experts at complaining and self-victimization. You're incensed that I called out childish behavior that is being displayed on social media (a public arena) in another public arena - these community boards. I didn't realize I needed permission from the overlords to discuss things openly.
> 
> Know this...one thing you are not going to do is come for my credentials. I've run a Poison Ivy themed site for at east 21 years and have collected comic books for over 40 years. I know this character like the back of my hand. If ANYBODY feels a gain or loss in regards to Ivy's legacy it's me. So don't ever address me as if I have no idea what I'm talking about. The whole point of my very BRIEF comment - a comment that left you strangely triggered - was that more harm is being done than good with these blitzkrieg style social media calculations. I enjoy reading over the opinions or reactions to news - but inevitably the more mature exchanges get steamrolled over by so much mean girl style tag teaming. It's as if a select few felt a bit of shine with "POISON IVY: CYCLE OF LIFE AND DEATH" and now mistake themselves for stars. You accuse others of not "trying" to understand your point of view - yet your post seems to exist as nothing more than a sass-mouthed style personal attack. (Then you have the gall to toss in accusations of anti-feminism. Puh-leese.) If you cant engage without careening into melodrama maybe you need to self evaluate. This place is usually light-hearted and informative but now...


You got everything wrong. Every single thing wrong. "a select few felt a bit of shine with "POISON IVY: CYCLE OF LIFE AND DEATH" and now mistake themselves for stars" really? And I don't care about your credentials. This is not a competition. YOU are the one who made assuptions about people you don't know. YOU are the one bitching about us and hey YOU started this. I'm trying to change some things and as it looks things are starting to change. But this is my mistake. In the words of Greg Capullo CBR forums: Complain, bitch and rant. So keep calling us loons buddy. As for knowing the character like the back of your hand, well I'm sure you do  :Wink: 
Have a nice day everyone.

----------


## rosenrose

Last post here (I doubt I'll ever post here again). I want to keep things vague but good things are coming up for Ivy from the Bensons and BoP. Remember to vote with your wallet. That's all.

----------


## buck135

> You will be happy to know that Ivy's storyline in _Gotham_ is finally, _finally_ going somewhere.  She teamed up with Cobblepot in the last episode, setting up a wacky and fun alliance. Interview with the actors who play proto-Penguin and Poison Ivy on the unexpected alliance between their characters


Too little, too late for me. I gave Gotham one more chance when they cast Maggie Geha. She was great in the first episode, but they didn't utilize her again. I can't stand the other characters, especially Riddler and Penguin.

----------


## darkeyes

Ivy was prominently featured in tonight's Gotham episode, looks like they are expanding her presence.  Her personality was still rather juvenile, however.  I assume that is because she is still supposed to be rather young at heart.  She is ruthless, not afraid to kill.  It will be interesting to see how they develop her character.

----------


## Frontier

> Ivy was prominently featured in tonight's Gotham episode, looks like they are expanding her presence.  Her personality was still rather juvenile, however.  I assume that is because she is still supposed to be rather young at heart.  She is ruthless, not afraid to kill.  It will be interesting to see how they develop her character.


I'm still not sure how we're supposed to view her character. A beautiful young adult learning to use her feminine wiles and a budding villainess? Or a kid stuck in a young adult body with all that entails? 

It's really weird.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I'm still not sure how we're supposed to view her character. A beautiful young adult learning to use her feminine wiles and a budding villainess? Or a kid stuck in a young adult body with all that entails? 
> 
> It's really weird.


Yeah, I don't think they thought this through, which is not unusual for this show but in Ivy's case it seems the most blatant.

But I'm enjoying her current dynamics with Penguin and glad that Maggie Geha is finally getting _something_ to do.

----------


## Confuzzled

Grace Randolph showed some _Injustice 2_ Poison Ivy gameplay on her YouTube channel. There's some stuff we haven't seen before, like the awesome character select interactions between the characters (Catwoman scratches Ivy's gorgeous mug, which ouch), a new flamboyant and fitting entrance for Ivy and the little plant dinosaur can actually projectile vomit at Ivy's opponents  :Stick Out Tongue:  She's SO gonna be my main!

----------


## GamerSlyRatchet

> I'm still not sure how we're supposed to view her character. *A beautiful young adult learning to use her feminine wiles* and a budding villainess? Or a kid stuck in a young adult body with all that entails? 
> 
> It's really weird.


I think they're downplaying that part once everyone freaked out over how creepy that is. Even in the first half of the season, she wasn't that sexualized. She was also supposed to have a subplot with Bruce that I guess was dropped, as is a lot of stuff in the show. 




> Grace Randolph showed some _Injustice 2_ Poison Ivy gameplay on her YouTube channel. There's some stuff we haven't seen before, like the awesome character select interactions between the characters (Catwoman scratches Ivy's gorgeous mug, which ouch), a new flamboyant and fitting entrance for Ivy and the little plant dinosaur can actually projectile vomit at Ivy's opponents  She's SO gonna be my main!


I love those interactions! Flash and Deadshot is still my favorite, though.

----------


## MentalManipulator

The Sirens as Sailor Moon villains

SailorSirens.jpg

----------


## Frontier

> The Sirens as Sailor Moon villains
> 
> SailorSirens.jpg


It surprisingly works  :Smile: .

----------


## MentalManipulator

> It surprisingly works .


Right? I was pleased myself with the result.... :-)

----------


## Confuzzled

> Right? I was pleased myself with the result.... :-)


I am not familiar with Sailor Moon characters but that looks great  :Smile:

----------


## MentalManipulator

Some Gotham City "actual" Sirens:

MermaidHarleyQuinn.jpg

MermaidCatwoman.jpg

MermaidPoisonIvy.jpg

----------


## Brian48

Some folks here might appreciate this.  Latest pick up for me (not that I buy a lot of original art).

----------


## buck135

> Some folks here might appreciate this.  Latest pick up for me (not that I buy a lot of original art).


That's excellent. Thank you for posting that. Great find.

----------


## darkeyes

Detective Comics 823, one of my favorite Ivy stories...nice!

That reminds me of something I found amusing on eBay.  I do not collect much art anymore either since I have nowhere to put it, but I did not have any sketch art from the animates series, so I picked up the top piece for a little over $30.00.  I then came across the bottom sketch, almost the same as the one I have except it has Kevin Conroy and Diane Pershing's signatures on it from a different seller.  His price?  $449.99!  It is crazy how much similar collectibles can vary in price sometimes.

Animated Sketch 001.jpg
Animated Sketch 002.JPG

----------


## buck135

> Detective Comics 823, one of my favorite Ivy stories...nice!
> 
> That reminds me of something I found amusing on eBay.  I do not collect much art anymore either since I have nowhere to put it, but I did not have any sketch art from the animates series, so I picked up the top piece for a little over $30.00.  I then came across the bottom sketch, almost the same as the one I have except it has Kevin Conroy and Diane Pershing's signatures on it from a different seller.  His price?  $449.99!  It is crazy how much similar collectibles can vary in price sometimes.
> 
> Animated Sketch 001.jpg
> Animated Sketch 002.JPG


Oh awesome. Those are beautiful sketches. I love the animated series and am annoyed that it hasn't been released on blu-ray. That is something I would pay $450 for. That show is where I first gained my appreciation for Ivy.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> Detective Comics 823, one of my favorite Ivy stories...nice!
> 
> That reminds me of something I found amusing on eBay.  I do not collect much art anymore either since I have nowhere to put it, but I did not have any sketch art from the animates series, so I picked up the top piece for a little over $30.00.  I then came across the bottom sketch, almost the same as the one I have except it has Kevin Conroy and Diane Pershing's signatures on it from a different seller.  His price?  $449.99!  It is crazy how much similar collectibles can vary in price sometimes.
> 
> Animated Sketch 001.jpg
> Animated Sketch 002.JPG


Gorgeous art! She looked perfect in Pretty Poison...hope her BTAS figure looks like this after they work on it

----------


## MentalManipulator

More Sirens:

SnowSirens.jpg

PixieSirens.jpg

----------


## buck135

I love using Ivy for Injustice 2. I'm getting better at the game, so having her up against Darkseid and Braniac are difficult, but entertaining. My expectations for this game were low, but Netherrealm knocked it out of the park. I'm hopeful for a New 52, Arkham Asylum and an Animated Series skin. I'm glad I bought the Ultimate Edition. Lots of fun with lots to do.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I love using Ivy for Injustice 2. I'm getting better at the game, so having her up against Darkseid and Braniac are difficult, but entertaining. My expectations for this game were low, but Netherrealm knocked it out of the park. I'm hopefull for a New 52 skin, a Hush skin, an Arkham Asylum skin and even a Batman Animated Series skin. I'm glad I bought the Ultimate Edition. Lots of fun with lots to do.


I love the red autumn skin with the spitball poison spore attack  :Big Grin:

----------


## buck135

> I love the red autumn skin with the spitball poison spore attack


It is very well done.

----------


## darkeyes

I like to keep my eye out for off-Ivy interpretations in other shows.  The other day I was binge watching the cartoon series Ugly Americans, and during the credits they have little extra scenes not in the actual episode.  They had a Batman parody episode titled 'The Dork Knight' (S02E16) and had this Ivy-inspired villain fighting the Koala that caught me by surprise.  Just something rather obscure I thought I would share.  

Ugly Americans Ivy.jpg

----------


## MentalManipulator

> I like to keep my eye out for off-Ivy interpretations in other shows.  The other day I was binge watching the cartoon series Ugly Americans, and during the credits they have little extra scenes not in the actual episode.  They had a Batman parody episode titled 'The Dork Knight' (S02E16) and had this Ivy-inspired villain fighting the Koala that caught me by surprise.  Just something rather obscure I thought I would share.  
> 
> Ugly Americans Ivy.jpg


Nice catch...I love it...so weird and disturbing

----------


## MentalManipulator

No Ivy in the new Suoer Hero Girls cartoon? bummer!

http://www.cbr.com/dc-super-hero-girls-cartoon-network/

Or maybe she'll be a villain. I hope so. The cutesy Ivy didn't work for me.

----------


## darkeyes

> No Ivy in the new Suoer Hero Girls cartoon? bummer!
> 
> http://www.cbr.com/dc-super-hero-girls-cartoon-network/
> 
> Or maybe she'll be a villain. I hope so. The cutesy Ivy didn't work for me.


I have noticed in the merchandising of Super Hero Girls, Ivy is often left out of new products.  There is a Mission Gear Poison Ivy doll coming out, though.

----------


## Rac7d*

> I have noticed in the merchandising of Super Hero Girls, Ivy is often left out of new products.  There is a Mission Gear Poison Ivy doll coming out, though.


it was a bad idea making her a hero
of the three she would be the least likly to ever be an anti hero becasue in her mind protecting plants is number 1
superheroes defend people

----------


## Frontier

> it was a bad idea making her a hero
> of the three she would be the least likly to ever be an anti hero becasue in her mind protecting plants is number 1
> superheroes defend people


But a good majority of the cast in DC Super Hero Girls are traditionally villains, but are heroes in the series, so it's not like Ivy's alone on that front. 

It's just one of the benefits (or flaws) of being one of DC's more notable female characters.

----------


## Confuzzled

Harley seems to have been made a villain or "troublemaker" too going by her description in the press release as "teen fiend" and a thorn in Barbara's side. I'm guessing Ivy will appear as Harley's new "Gotham-Con bestie" once HQ has her fallout with Babs. So it appears the two Sirens who started out good in this franchise have been reverted to their more traditional status quo and have been replaced by Zatanna and Jessica Cruz on the heroes side.

----------


## Confuzzled

Ivy made the cover and solicitation of _Batgirl and the Birds of Prey #13_ but it's possible she may appear in the title before that issue.






> SOURCE CODE finale! Oracles past entanglements with Gotham Citys underworld have gotten the Birds in deep trouble as Calculator, Catwoman and Poison Ivy all pull the team into their own dark agendas! Even if they can get themselves out of this mess, the question remains: Does Oracle really belong with the Birds of Prey, or is he a criminal at heart?

----------


## Atlanta96

Ivy'a look is so inconsistent, it's ridiculous. This is the 4th or 5th costume I've seen her in since Rebirth started. Harley changes her look constantly but that's a character trait, why the hell does Ivy have a new costume every couple months?

----------


## Confuzzled

The Sideshow Collectible Ivy figure designed by "Artgerm", a "high fashion" take on the Gotham City Sirens

----------


## Confuzzled

And the next statue will be from the DC Artist Alley line. Here's the design by Sho Murase:

----------


## Confuzzled

> Ivy'a look is so inconsistent, it's ridiculous. This is the 4th or 5th costume I've seen her in since Rebirth started. Harley changes her look constantly but that's a character trait, why the hell does Ivy have a new costume every couple months?


To be fair, Ivy's "character trait" in terms of clothing would be no clothing at all  :Stick Out Tongue:  But since we can't have that, it would make sense that she'd keep changing and tweaking her looks and attire, especially as most of her outfits are comprised of leaves, vines, flowers etc.

----------


## Frontier

> Harley seems to have been made a villain or "troublemaker" too going by her description in the press release as "teen fiend" and a thorn in Barbara's side. I'm guessing Ivy will appear as Harley's new "Gotham-Con bestie" once HQ has her fallout with Babs. So it appears the two Sirens who started out good in this franchise have been reverted to their more traditional status quo and have been replaced by Zatanna and Jessica Cruz on the heroes side.


I'll be surprised if Ivy isn't in this. She's too prominent a character to leave out of a series that's going to be promoting DC women like the main DCSHG series, and she's also Harley's real best friend. 

Though if she is in it, I expect she'll be closer to classic Ivy then her more shy and demure DCSHG counterpart, but probably retain the passion for science. 




> Ivy made the cover and solicitation of _Batgirl and the Birds of Prey #13_ but it's possible she may appear in the title before that issue.


Weird that we have 2/3 of the Sirens with Harley nowhere in sight, but I guess a Ivy/Selina team-up might be fun. 



> The Sideshow Collectible Ivy figure designed by "Artgerm", a "high fashion" take on the Gotham City Sirens


This outfit reminds me a lot of Marvel's Mantis. 



> And the next statue will be from the DC Artist Alley line. Here's the design by Sho Murase:


Looks pretty  :Embarrassment: .



> To be fair, Ivy's "character trait" in terms of clothing would be no clothing at all  But since we can't have that, it would make sense that she'd keep changing and tweaking her looks and attire, especially as most of her outfits are comprised of leaves, vines, flowers etc.


I feel like Ivy's definitely the type of person who'd go through plenty of different costumes and outfits designs, when she actually wants to be clothed at all, but I can also understand wanting some consistency in her designs.

Though this line of discussion makes me wish someone would finally give Catwoman a redesign or new costume, especially if Harley and Ivy (and any other DC character) can go through so many different looks while Selina's been stuck using basically the same outfit, more-or-less, since 2001. 

Although given the current design stem from Darwyn Cooke, I maybe understand a desire to just leave it as is as a tribute.

----------


## kcomics

Poison Ivy has good anti-hero qualities. For one, she tries to protect Harley Quinn and keep her from going back to Joker's abusive hands. She also seems to be into "girl power" and female empowerment. Sure, she gets a little crazy over her plants, but she's also into protecting children, so she's not all bad. Plus, she's got some kick-butt superpowers--the ability to communicate with plants, immunity to most poisons, and the ability to make humanoid clones out of plants. She even clones herself before she leaves Gotham so that "Harley won't be lonely." Poison Ivy has shown the capacity to love other human beings and really isn't as bad as some portrayals of her lead us to believe.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Poison Ivy has good anti-hero qualities. For one, *she tries to protect Harley Quinn and keep her from going back to Joker's abusive hands*. She also seems to be into *"girl power*" and female empowerment. Sure, *she gets a little crazy over her plants*, but she's also into protecting children, *so she's not all bad.* Plus, she's got some kick-butt superpowers--the ability to communicate with plants, immunity to most poisons, and the ability to make humanoid clones out of plants. She even clones herself before she leaves Gotham so that "Harley won't be lonely." Poison Ivy has shown the capacity to love other human beings and really isn't as bad as some portrayals of her lead us to believe.



In present time, I believe Ivy has done as much as she posssibly could for Harley, so depending on the universe, we can have Iv and harley who are the adoring friends/W benifits or the former friends now opposed.
I do prefere their friendship but it seems the more at one she becomes with the green the less value she sees in harley.    Every female hero is into girl power

Calling her a little crazy over plants is the understatment of the year. The more powerful they make her the more Plant like she becomes, she seems too have a twited idea of whats best for the green

Even the Ivy who assisted Batman in Arkham Knight was about plant domination,

----------


## Confuzzled

> In present time, I believe Ivy has done as much as she posssibly could for Harley, so depending on the universe, we can have Iv and harley who are the adoring friends/W benifits or the former friends now opposed.
> I do prefere their friendship but it seems the more at one she becomes with the green the less value she sees in harley.    Every female hero is into girl power
> 
> Calling her a little crazy over plants is the understatment of the year. The more powerful they make her the more Plant like she becomes, she seems too have a twited idea of whats best for the green
> 
> Even the Ivy who assisted Batman in Arkham Knight was about plant domination,


Ivy's more complex than just "girl power". And the recent mini did a good job exploring her alienation from the rest of humanity. The newer interpretations also have her aim for mankind/nature co-existence over straight up green take-over. I personally find the character more interesting when she is smart enough to value human civilization but at the same time realize its excesses.

Otherwise she's just Ra's Al Ghul with boobs.

----------


## Frontier

> Otherwise she's just Ra's Al Ghul with boobs.


And that's Talia's job (sometimes)  :Stick Out Tongue: .

----------


## kcomics

Yeah, as a straight up plant lady who wants to dominate the world, she's pretty boring, but when they take the time to make her more complex, she's a good character.

----------


## Confuzzled

> And that's Talia's job (sometimes) .


That's true.  :Stick Out Tongue:  But with the Damian angle, she's also a bit like Nicole Kidman's character from _The Golden Compass_ (I forget her name even though I have the book  :Embarrassment: ).

----------


## Frontier

For anyone interested, Cartoon Network's released "Garden of Evil," Ivy's _Justice League Action_ appearance, on their website, App, and On-Demand. 

I liked it a lot. Natasha Leggero injected a lot of personality into Ivy and they also showcased her as a pretty dangerous threat in her own right. Her character design in action also looks really nice  :Smile: . 

And I think Confuzzled may enjoy the Ivy/Swamp Thing interaction  :Wink: .

----------


## Confuzzled

> And I think Confuzzled may enjoy the Ivy/Swamp Thing interaction .


Yay, I'll watch it on Saturday with friends after we return from watching Wonder Woman.  :Big Grin:

----------


## juan678

Harley Quinn cover 22 y 23 Sketch cho

----------


## Atlanta96

Nice to see Frank Cho finally do a Poison Ivy cover.

----------


## BooCoo

In the old Gotham Knights run with Hush was her apex of complexity. Extremely intelligent and complicated with a bit of alpha stuff going on between Bruce and Tommy.

----------


## Atlanta96

Batman #26 variant by Joshua Middleton

IMG_0433.jpg

I hope they end up using this costume in the story, instead of the New 52 look we saw earlier on.

----------


## buck135

> Batman #26 variant by Joshua Middleton
> 
> IMG_0433.jpg
> 
> I hope they end up using this costume in the story, instead of the New 52 look we saw earlier on.


Thanks to you and juan678 for the heads up regarding Ivy's upcoming comics. I try to purchase all of her appearances and appreciate the notice.

----------


## darkeyes

As we all mourn the passing Adam West, Poison Ivy never appeared in the 1966 TV series, however, many fans have said Ann-Margret would have been the ideal actress to portray her.  I found these pictures in the 66batman forum where they show Batman next to a Gotham City Beach poster that was supposedly modeled after Ann-Margret and may have been a nod to Poison Ivy.  Just a rumor though.

31173419550_2fd6a004d2_o.jpg
31173421090_2ab648407e_o.jpg

----------


## Confuzzled

The funny thing is Mary Jane Watson was modelled after Ann-Margaret. Like Ivy, MJ too debuted (well, finally revealed her gorgeous face) in 1966. Two of my favorite ladies in comics, making their debut in the same year and sharing common influences (like Ivy, MJ definitely has some aspects of the Second Wave feminists and like Classic Ivy, a carefree, devil may care attitude).

----------


## Confuzzled

Ivy topped CBR's 15 Most Toxic Superheroes and Villains in Comics list  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## WhiteQueenEmmaFrost

PI.jpg

Anyone else think she looked better in the first Batman: Arkham game than the subsequent appearances?

----------


## buck135

Yeah, her look certainly regressed with each game. What bothers me with Arkham Knight is they use the same character model for Ivy as the waitress in the diner at the beginning of the game when you first take control of the police officer. Ivy's voice acting and story in all three games are stellar, so I can't complain too much.

----------


## Confuzzled

It's odd but ever since she has gone back to skin tone, glimpses of vibrant green skinned Ivy just looks cartoonish to me. I wasn't very fond of the original Arkham design in the first place, so didn't mind the dowdier latter versions all that much.

Btw, Tasia Valenza, the talented voice actress who voices PI in the Arkham games, is the same VA who voices her in Injustice 2 and Infinite Crisis. She is a major Ivy fan and keeps retweeting and voicing her excitement for upcoming Poison Ivy appearances in comics and other media on social media even when those Ivy appearances don't involve her. She's literally one of us and it's adorable!  :Big Grin:

----------


## Jovos2099

To those who are aware of what happened in batman #24 what would anyone think ivys reaction/opinion on it nothing  serious just curious  :Wink:  ?

----------


## Confuzzled

> To those who are aware of what happened in batman #24 what would anyone think ivys reaction/opinion on it nothing  serious just curious  ?


She called Bruce "Selina's Sugar Daddy" in one of the Injustice 2 fight intros  :Stick Out Tongue: 

I think Current Ivy will mostly be happy for Selina, even if she would initially roll her eyes at Cat tritely choosing Batsy. Classic Ivy who was head over heels for Batman too is another matter altogether.

----------


## Frontier

I still will never understand why Ivy just kept wearing that prison top across all three games. 

I also didn't know Tasia Valenza was also a big Ivy fan. Makes me even more happy to see her become so attached to the character, and hope she gets to reprise the role again in the future  :Embarrassment: .



> To those who are aware of what happened in batman #24 what would anyone think ivys reaction/opinion on it nothing  serious just curious  ?


I don't think she'd be happy if she knew she was marrying Batman, but I think she'd be indifferent or amused if she just thought she was marrying a flighty, billionaire, playboy.

----------


## Confuzzled

One of the Benson sisters who write _Batgirl and the Birds of Prey_ said on Twitter that Ivy's debut in the title will be in the next issue (Issue #12). The story arc started in the issue out now (#11) and Catwoman was teased in it.

----------


## buck135

> One of the Benson sisters who write _Batgirl and the Birds of Prey_ said on Twitter that Ivy's debut in the title will be in the next issue (Issue #12). The story arc started in the issue out now (#11) and Catwoman was teased in it.


Awesome. Thanks Confuzzled.

----------


## Frontier

> One of the Benson sisters who write _Batgirl and the Birds of Prey_ said on Twitter that Ivy's debut in the title will be in the next issue (Issue #12). The story arc started in the issue out now (#11) and Catwoman was teased in it.


The Benson's handling of Catwoman looks great so far, so I can't wait to see them handle Ivy  :Smile: .

----------


## darkeyes

We all know the first appearance of Poison Ivy was in Batman 181 and continued in Batman 183.  Between those two issues, her second appearance actually came in the Batman newspaper stip.

I recently picked up the Batman: The Silver Age Newspaper Comics Volume 1 (1966-1967) book which features the second appearance of Ivy which was in the last panel of the December 10, 1966 strip and her story continued in an arc from December 12, 1966 through March 18, 1967.  I do not think she is in volume 2 (1968-1969), but she is in volume 3 (1969-1972) which I have yet to get.   I thought  I would post what she looked like in the newspaper strip.  It was a fun read.

Batman strips 1.jpg
Batman strips 1b.jpg
PI 121066.jpg

----------


## Confuzzled

> We all know the first appearance of Poison Ivy was in Batman 181 and continued in Batman 183.  Between those two issues, her second appearance actually came in the Batman newspaper stip.
> 
> I recently picked up the Batman: The Silver Age Newspaper Comics Volume 1 (1966-1967) book which features the second appearance of Ivy which was in the last panel of the December 10, 1966 strip and her story continued in an arc from December 12, 1966 through March 18, 1967.  I do not think she is in volume 2 (1968-1969), but she is in volume 3 (1969-1972) which I have yet to get.   I thought  I would post what she looked like in the newspaper strip.  It was a fun read.
> 
> Batman strips 1.jpg
> Batman strips 1b.jpg
> PI 121066.jpg


Thank you for posting these, *darkeyes*. I think I was vaguely aware of Ivy's appearances in the '60's strip but this is the first time I'm seeing panels. "Mischievous Melange of Madcap Maidens" >>>>>>> "Gotham City Sirens" as a squad name.

And brown haired Ivy will never not be bizarre now lol

----------


## Confuzzled

In this video on _War of Jokes and Riddles_, Tom King kind of confirms that Ivy is the most powerful Gotham Rogue, as well as the fact that Riddler seeks her alliance against the Joker and Penguin for that very reason.

----------


## Frontier

FYI, Poison Ivy (voiced by Natasha Leggero) made her _Justice League Action_ debut in the US today (at least on TV) with "Garden of Evil"  :Smile: .

----------


## MentalManipulator

> In this video on _War of Jokes and Riddles_, Tom King kind of confirms that Ivy is the most powerful Gotham Rogue, as well as the fact that Riddler seeks her alliance against the Joker and Penguin for that very reason.


Great to hear it! Also she looks flawless on the art.

----------


## GamerSlyRatchet

> FYI, Poison Ivy (voiced by Natasha Leggero) made her _Justice League Action_ debut in the US today (at least on TV) with "Garden of Evil" .


Man, Ivy was really cute in that episode. Probably one of the show's strongest episodes with a lot packed in, from Swamp Thing, to Harley vs. Vixen, to Bud and Lou, and another creative use of Firestorm's powers.

----------


## darkseidpwns

> In this video on _War of Jokes and Riddles_, Tom King kind of confirms that Ivy is the most powerful Gotham Rogue, as well as the fact that Riddler seeks her alliance against the Joker and Penguin for that very reason.


But thats not actually true, there's Grundy, there's Deathstroke

----------


## Confuzzled

> But thats not actually true, there's Grundy, there's Deathstroke


She could easily incapacitate Grundy with one of her plants. She did just that to Black Lantern Black Mask in the Catwoman tie-in for _Blackest Night_. Doubt Grundy is as powerful as a Black Lantern.

And Deathstroke?  :Confused:

----------


## darkseidpwns

> She could easily incapacitate Grundy with one of her plants. She did just that to Black Lantern Black Mask in the Catwoman tie-in for _Blackest Night_. Doubt Grundy is as powerful as a Black Lantern.
> 
> And Deathstroke?


Grundy has beaten her though and just a few months before Blackest Night.

Yeah Deathstroke is in this too.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Grundy has beaten her though and just a few months before Blackest Night.
> 
> Yeah Deathstroke is in this too.


Which book was that? So maybe she prepared for a retaliation and hence created a plant with the ability to take down and imprison a Black Lantern in _Blackest Night_. 

No I meant how is Deathstroke more powerful than Ivy lol

----------


## darkseidpwns

> Which book was that? So maybe she prepared for a retaliation and hence created a plant with the ability to take down and imprison a Black Lantern in _Blackest Night_. 
> 
> No I meant how is Deathstroke more powerful than Ivy lol


The Grundy series(yeah Grundy had a series)

Second only do Deadshot in terms of lethal accuracy, second only to Batman in terms of resources, atleast Batman's equal in terms of intelligence, IKON armor, indestructible blade, Captain America physicals, second only to Batman in terms of combat skills (in this roster) and you've pretty much got the most powerful villain in this war.

----------


## Confuzzled

> The Grundy series(yeah Grundy had a series)
> 
> Second only do Deadshot in terms of lethal accuracy, second only to Batman in terms of resources, atleast Batman's equal in terms of intelligence, IKON armor, indestructible blade, Captain America physicals, second only to Batman in terms of combat skills (in this roster) and you've pretty much got the most powerful villain in this war.


Lolwut Grundy had a series?!? I _think_ I vaguely remember it but had no clue Ivy appeared in it. So what was the deal? Was she the only one who took him on or did the entire Batman Rogue's Gallery job to him?

Regarding Deathstroke: Oh okay, but I think King was talking about superpowered might.

----------


## darkseidpwns

Just her, been a while though, I think Croc was also involved...I think.

----------


## HandofPrometheus

Y'all seen This? It contains spoilers for the latest Batman issue beware and I wanted to see what you guys think.https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/07/05/poison-ivy/

----------


## HandofPrometheus

I'm not a fan of mass murder Ivy but I don't mind her killing now and then. She's a villain and has killed before.

----------


## buck135

I picked up both issues, but haven't read them yet. Ivy is on a variant cover for each. I love when she is written as a ruthless seductress, so I am in the minority amonst the majority of fans.

----------


## Frontier

> Y'all seen This? It contains spoilers for the latest Batman issue beware and I wanted to see what you guys think.https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/07/05/poison-ivy/





> I'm not a fan of mass murder Ivy but I don't mind her killing now and then. She's a villain and has killed before.


I don't think of Ivy as a serial killer, unless the people she goes after all have done great harm to the environment, but killing a bunch of mobsters about to shoot her seems like something she would do without a second-thought.

----------


## Atlanta96

> I picked up both issues, but haven't read them yet. Ivy is on a variant cover for each. I love when she is written as a ruthless seductress, so I am in the minority amonst the majority of fans.


I don't think you're a minority. Ivy has a long and proud history as a sinister seductress across many forms of media, and I think most readers are ok with that.

----------


## buck135

Point taken. It just seems like Ivy's most vocal fanbase has recently been outspoken regarding her being written as a protagonist.

----------


## WonderNight

> Point taken. It just seems like Ivy's most vocal fanbase has recently been outspoken regarding her being written as a protagonist.


yeah because they what there ivy x harley fan canon.

----------


## Atlanta96

> Point taken. It just seems like Ivy's most vocal fanbase has recently been outspoken regarding her being written as a protagonist.


Never mistake the extremely vocal Tumblr fans for the majority of readers  :Smile:

----------


## buck135

> Never mistake the extremely vocal Tumblr fans for the majority of readers


I love that Ivy has established such a passionate fanbase. It frustrates me when she mostly makes brief cameos with Harley and is given nothing to do. She has also appeared more in Bombshells than anything else since Rebirth began.

----------


## WontonGirl

> Never mistake the extremely vocal Tumblr fans for the majority of readers


Please don't! LOL! 

To mainstream and casual fans that are coming back to the comics, THIS is the Ivy they are familiar with.

----------


## Confuzzled

Lol Atlanta being salty as usual. I doubt the majority of fans care either way. If they can embrace grey shaded Harley and Selina, they can accept grey shaded Ivy.

Anyway, this _is_ Past Ivy and I wonder whether there is a purpose to showing that every henchman she killed was human in his own way. Other than showing henchmen are human in their own way, I mean. Maybe King is setting up the start of Ivy's shift in morality when she has to realize the consequences of what she has just done? Also, as Frontier said, those guys _did_ threaten her so... Even Amy Chu had Ivy kill threats in Cycle.

The art is gorgeous.

----------


## Atlanta96

> Lol Atlanta being salty as usual. I doubt the majority of fans care either way. If they can embrace grey shaded Harley and Selina, they can accept grey shaded Ivy.
> 
> Anyway, this _is_ Past Ivy and I wonder whether there is a purpose to showing that every henchman she killed was human in his own way. Other than showing henchmen are human in their own way, I mean. Maybe King is setting up the start of Ivy's shift in morality when she has to realize the consequences of what she has just done? Also, as Frontier said, those guys _did_ threaten her so... Even Amy Chu had Ivy kill threats in Cycle.
> 
> The art is gorgeous.


Selina has never been particularly evil or murderous, and Harley Quinn was a naive girl who was manipulated into evil by the Joker. Characters are different, Confuzzled! That's why it's easier to accept some of them as morally grey than others!

----------


## Confuzzled

> Selina has never been particularly evil or murderous, *and Harley Quinn was a naive girl who was manipulated into evil by the Joker.*


Like how Jason Woodrue manipulated a naive Pamela Isley? Even Dini referenced the incredible similarity between Harley and Ivy in _Gotham City Sirens_. That shared commonality is what gives their relationship some much needed depth.

----------


## Atlanta96

> Like how Jason Woodrue manipulated a naive Pamela Isley? Even Dini referenced the incredible similarity between Harley and Ivy in _Gotham City Sirens_. That shared commonality is what gives their relationship some much needed depth.


Not even close to the same thing, Ivy always had more agency over her path than Harley did. On top of that, she's one of the few good female villains DC has left. Some readers need to accept the fact that certain people are just evil, and stop trying to make everyone the same.

----------


## WontonGirl

> Selina has never been particularly evil or murderous, and Harley Quinn was a naive girl who was manipulated into evil by the Joker. Characters are different, Confuzzled! That's why it's easier to accept some of them as morally grey than others!


Exactly! Fans know that Poison Ivy and Harley for that matter are villains in the truest sense. It's just you have a lot of either HQ fans or Harley/Ivy fans that are all of a sudden (past few years) thinking these ladies could be more or just about as righteous or pure as Lois Lane or Iris West, LOL! 

I like Ivy and I wish to be on this thread more BUT I like my Ivy the way I know and grew up with her; as a badass, sassy, beautiful Villain who has no problem standing up to Batman and handing him his balls, LOL! I think she is severely underrated.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Not even close to the same thing, Ivy always had more agency over her path than Harley did.


No she didn't. Woodrue deceived Pamela, exploited her and flat out poisoned her and left her to die, a much worse state than Harley's origin. Unlike Harley though, Ivy realized she had been betrayed and then used her agency and newfound power to course correct the wrongs she thought that needed righting, kind of like Selina Kyle in _Batman Returns_.




> On top of that, she's one of the few good female villains DC has left. Some readers need to accept the fact that certain people are just evil, and stop trying to make everyone the same.


The "very few good female villains" excuse is silly and uninformed as that is simply not true. Wonder Woman herself has a full gallery of great villainesses, many of whom had a strong showing in Greg Rucka's recently concluded run. Ivy has referred to a tragic betrayal by a man as early as her origin story, much before Catwoman was depicted as a sympathetic figure in her own career. Ivy has been depicted as being morally complex since the 80's with Neil Gaiman. The 90's emphasized the depth of her character.

And like it or not, _Harley and Ivy_ and _Gotham City Sirens_ popularized her as more of an anti-heroine than straight up villainess.

----------


## WontonGirl

> Some readers need to accept the fact that certain people are just evil, and stop trying to make everyone the same.


You got that right! I think that she is a fantastic villain and again, she is one of the few true female villains and she stands up to Bats and hands him his balls. 

Again, I think that when some fans have their favorites, they don't want anything bad to happen to them, like turning them "bad". Or not making her good. Making an evil villain good is NOT a sign of growth. But for her hardcore fans, perhaps it is.

----------


## Atlanta96

Double post.

----------


## Atlanta96

> No she didn't. Woodrue deceived Pamela, exploited her and flat out poisoned her and left her to die, a much worse state than Harley's origin. Unlike Harley though, Ivy realized she had been betrayed and then used her agency and newfound power to course correct the wrongs she thought that needed righting, kind of like Selina Kyle in _Batman Returns_.
> 
> 
> 
> The "very few good female villains" excuse is silly and uninformed as that is simply not true. Wonder Woman herself has a full gallery of great villainesses, many of whom had a strong showing in Greg Rucka's recently concluded run. Ivy has referred to a tragic betrayal by a man as early as her origin story, much before Catwoman was depicted as a sympathetic figure in her own career. Ivy has been depicted as being morally complex since the 80's with Neil Gaiman. The 90's emphasized the depth of her character.
> 
> And like it or not, _Harley and Ivy_ and _Gotham City Sirens_ popularized her as more of an anti-heroine than straight up villainess.


I have not read GCS or Harley & Ivy in a while, but I recall them, especially Ivy, being fairly villainous in those stories as well. Killing people, and stuff. Putting Ivy in a buddy comedy does not automatically make her less evil.

Pamela wasn't a dim-witted girl subjected to years of systemic manipulation and abuse like Harley was, she was an intelligent woman in control of her own actions who could easily have avoided the evil path if she wanted to. She comes off as the worst of the Sirens by far. She can have depth without being forced into a heroic or an anti-hero role. Evil people can be very psychologically complex.

----------


## Confuzzled

> she is one of the few true female villains


Except she hasn't been consistently depicted as a proper villain in the comics since the 90's. Anyways, the "few" true female villains is uninformed as the female Wonder Villains by themselves are sufficient examples. 




> She was and she stands up to Bats and hands him his balls.


Don't see how or why she cannot do that without being cartoonishly evil. 




> Making an evil villain good is NOT a sign of growth.


Lol it is. In fact, it is the definition of growth, provided it is handled deftly. But no one is asking Ivy to turn angelic anyway. Many fans of complex Ivy don't even mind her being murderous. They just don't want a two-dimensional villain who constantly kills at a whim without any care.

Though I've said before that Batman #26 can be an exception because it is Ivy very early in her superhuman career.

----------


## WontonGirl

> Except she hasn't been consistently depicted as a proper villain in the comics since the 90's. Anyways, the "few" true female villains is uninformed as the female Wonder Villains by themselves are sufficient examples. 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't see how or why she cannot do that without being cartoonishly evil. 
> 
> 
> 
> Lol it is. In fact, it is the definition of growth, provided it is handled deftly. But no one is asking Ivy to turn angelic anyway. Many fans of complex Ivy don't even mind her being murderous. They just don't want a two-dimensional villain who constantly kills at a whim without any care.
> ...


A lot of these characters have "changed" over the years. And a lot of grayness has been added to people to make them less "evil". 

If you love her as a complex villain who only kills for a specific good reason. Good for you. Like who you want, how you want them.

----------


## millernumber1

> Except she hasn't been consistently depicted as a proper villain in the comics since the 90's. Anyways, the "few" true female villains is uninformed as the female Wonder Villains by themselves are sufficient examples. 
> 
> Lol it is. In fact, it is the definition of growth, provided it is handled deftly. But no one is asking Ivy to turn angelic anyway. Many fans of complex Ivy don't even mind her being murderous. They just don't want a two-dimensional villain who constantly kills at a whim without any care.


There have been pretty straightforward depictions of Ivy as a villain who kills for fun. I just read Paul Dini's run on Detective Comics from 2006-2008, and he did a one-shot story of Ivy feeding people to her carnivorous plants and giggling about it to Batman, only for that plant to absorb her victims' personalities as well and come after her. She's also pretty villainous compared to the much less dark Catwoman in Gotham City Sirens (also by Dini).

----------


## Confuzzled

> There have been pretty straightforward depictions of Ivy as a villain who kills for fun. I just read Paul Dini's run on Detective Comics from 2006-2008, and he did a one-shot story of Ivy feeding people to her carnivorous plants and giggling about it to Batman, only for that plant to absorb her victims' personalities as well and come after her. She's also pretty villainous compared to the much less dark Catwoman in Gotham City Sirens (also by Dini).


Yeah, that's Dini and he... let's just politely say he has a thing for depicting Ivy as two-dimensionally evil. 

But since the 90's, he has been one of the very few exceptions to depict her as such. The more popular trend among writers was to depict her as a sympathetic figure whose moral compass towards mankind was kind of like nature's relationship with man. Treat her well, and she will shower you with her bounty and/or allow you to coexist with her (the Robinson Park orphans, Harley, Batgirl, Darshan from her mini etc.). Treat her badly, and she will bring down hell's fury upon you.

----------


## darkseidpwns

Its not about complexity, the group on twitter outright wants her to be a traditional super hero who pals around with Wonder Woman,  Supergirl, Batgirl etc, that's utterly ridiculous and when someone points this out they drive those people away, block them, tell them to get lost etc. This happens to the polite ones, the not so polite ones have their posts screen shotted and then said posts are used by group members to self victimize them selves.

So they whine, then they bully both the creators and fans who try to talk to them, then they whine again when bullied in retaliation.

----------


## millernumber1

> Yeah, that's Dini and he... let's just politely say he has a thing for depicting Ivy as two-dimensionally evil. 
> 
> But since the 90's, he has been one of the very few exceptions to depict her as such. The more popular trend among writers was to depict her as a sympathetic figure whose moral compass towards mankind was kind of like nature's relationship with man. Treat her well, and she will shower you with her bounty and/or allow you to coexist with her (the Robinson Park orphans, Harley, Batgirl, Darshan from her mini etc.). Treat her badly, and she will bring down hell's fury upon you.


Whether or not he's an isolated case, he was allowed to do what he did by editorial, so I don't think you can just cordon off his stuff and say "no one did it since the 90s". You can argue, as I argue about other characters, that his stuff is not normative, but saying it doesn't exist doesn't really make a strong case.

----------


## Baseman

> No she didn't. Woodrue deceived Pamela, exploited her and flat out poisoned her and left her to die, a much worse state than Harley's origin. Unlike Harley though, Ivy realized she had been betrayed and then used her agency and newfound power to course correct the wrongs she thought that needed righting, kind of like Selina Kyle in _Batman Returns_.
> 
> 
> 
> *The "very few good female villains" excuse is silly and uninformed as that is simply not true*. Wonder Woman herself has a full gallery of great villainesses, many of whom had a strong showing in Greg Rucka's recently concluded run. Ivy has referred to a tragic betrayal by a man as early as her origin story, much before Catwoman was depicted as a sympathetic figure in her own career. Ivy has been depicted as being morally complex since the 80's with Neil Gaiman. The 90's emphasized the depth of her character.
> 
> And like it or not, _Harley and Ivy_ and _Gotham City Sirens_ popularized her as more of an anti-heroine than straight up villainess.


I think people are using 'good' as a stand in for 'popular' here.The WW villans ,while they have potential, aren't nearly as popular as Harley and Ivy are/were.

And now that those two are moving to more of a anti hero status,there is a void left  behind that Wondys villains are simply not in a position to fill.

----------


## WontonGirl

> Its not about complexity, the group on twitter outright wants her to be a traditional super hero who *pals around with Wonder Woman,  Supergirl, Batgirl etc,* that's utterly ridiculous


LOL  :Big Grin:  

Kinda how you got Women and Girls who create fan art and do cosplay as the GCS, like these women are the best of friends.

----------


## darkseidpwns

I personally dont even care about any void and I detest that caricature that appeared in Dini's Tec issue as well as Joker's Asylum, my ideal is from the late 80's to 90's. The Grant/Gaiman/Francis Moore version.

----------


## WontonGirl

> I think people are using 'good' as a stand in for 'popular' here.The WW villans ,while they have potential, aren't nearly as popular as Harley and Ivy are/were.
> 
> And now that those two are moving to more of a anti hero status,there is a void left  behind that Wondys villains are simply not in a position to fill.


Then perhaps we should look at another group that sometimes is also hard to define yet we run into them everyday; Anti-Villains. 

Maybe that's what she is, not a real villain but not an anti-hero or in the middle either.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Whether or not he's an isolated case, he was allowed to do what he did by editorial, so I don't think you can just cordon off his stuff and say "no one did it since the 90s". You can argue, as I argue about other characters, that his stuff is not normative, but saying it doesn't exist doesn't really make a strong case.


Eh, how does "not consistently been depicted" mean the same thing as "doesn't exist" or "no one did it"?

----------


## Confuzzled

> I think people are using 'good' as a stand in for 'popular' here.The WW villans ,while they have potential, aren't nearly as popular as Harley and Ivy are/were.
> 
> And now that those two are moving to more of a anti hero status,there is a void left  *behind that Wondys villains are simply not in a position to fill.*


But they should be able to. Now with the Wonder Woman film breaking out, it is the right time to push the WW villains on different media platforms. People are curious about Doctor Poison thanks to the movie and WW2 should provide better opportunities for at least a couple other female WW villains.




> LOL  
> 
> Kinda how you got Women and Girls who create fan art and do cosplay as the GCS, like these women are the best of friends.


DC Superhero Girls, an official line, pushed the narrative of Ivy being friends with the superheroines. GCS is an actual team as well. For a person who keeps saying "I don't know why people are coming for me..." you keep being condescending regarding other people's choices when it comes to their fandom.

----------


## millernumber1

> Eh, how does "not consistently been depicted" mean the same thing as "doesn't exist" or "no one did it"?


You're right - your phrasing was accurate. However...




> GCS is an actual team as well.


it's a team that ended in great hostility, and included non-consensual drugging and coercion at the outset. The Ivy of GCS is still Dini's Ivy on the whole.

----------


## Baseman

> But they should be able to. Now with the Wonder Woman film breaking out, it is the right time to push the WW villains on different media platforms. People are curious about Doctor Poison thanks to the movie and WW2 should provide better opportunities for at least a couple other female WW villains.


Some in the future Yea.Not right now though.Considering the only show that features WW at all  is JL:Action which thus far has only featured Circe to my knowledge.Its will be At least a year before we get another WW movie.I highly doubt the the Young Justice or Titans online shows has plans to feature any WW villans.

Right Now.DC has no one to replace Harley and Ivy as their top bad girls.Which is all people care about at the end of the day.

----------


## Atlanta96

> But they should be able to. Now with the Wonder Woman film breaking out, it is the right time to push the WW villains on different media platforms. People are curious about Doctor Poison thanks to the movie and WW2 should provide better opportunities for at least a couple other female WW villains.
> 
> 
> 
> DC Superhero Girls, an official line, pushed the narrative of Ivy being friends with the superheroines. GCS is an actual team as well. For a person who keeps saying "I don't know why people are coming for me..." you keep being condescending regarding other people's choices when it comes to their fandom.


Superhero girls is aimed at 5 year olds. Arguments based on media synergy are flimsy enough on their own, but using media aimed at small children for those arguments is even worse.

----------


## Confuzzled

> You're right - your phrasing was accurate. However...
> 
> 
> 
> it's a team that ended in great hostility, and included non-consensual drugging and coercion at the outset. The Ivy of GCS is still Dini's Ivy on the whole.


The Sirens still hung out together in the Harley Quinn solo and Selina swung by to help Pam in her mini. Selina and Pam also appear to be together in the upcoming Birds of Prey issue so I don't see how showing the GCS be friendly to each other in artwork is a ridiculous concept.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Superhero girls is aimed at 5 year olds. Arguments based on media synergy are flimsy enough on their own, but using media aimed at small children for those arguments is even worse.


You're one of those guys who yells at little girls on DC Superhero Girls YouTube video comment sections about how they shouldn't idolize Ivy as she is a villain, aren't you?

----------


## millernumber1

> The Sirens still hung out together in the Harley Quinn solo and Selina swung by to help Pam in her mini. Selina and Pam also appear to be together in the upcoming Birds of Prey issue so I don't see how showing the GCS be friendly to each other in artwork is a ridiculous concept.


I agree that having them be friends is completely fine - even fun! I just think that using GCS as a major element in that argument isn't very solid.

----------


## WontonGirl

> For a person who keeps saying "I don't know why people are coming for me..." you keep being condescending regarding other people's choices when it comes to their fandom.


I'm not being condescending. Again, you like who you like and how you like them. And again, people go hard for their favorite characters, trying to prove how they are NOT this or ARE that. And that's fine. 

With that, I bow out.

----------


## Atlanta96

> You're one of those guys who yells at little girls on DC Superhero Girls YouTube video comment sections about how they shouldn't idolize Ivy as she is a villain, aren't you?


LOL. I don't even comment on YouTube vids besides my own anymore.

----------


## buck135

Ivy will now be featured this fall in Harley and Ivy Meet Betty and Veronica. Sigh.

http://www.cbr.com/harley-ivy-betty-veronica-crossover/

----------


## Confuzzled

> I agree that having them be friends is completely fine - even fun! I just think that using GCS as a major element in that argument isn't very solid.


I mentioned GCS in my reply to WontonGirl's post where she mentioned fans making GCS artwork.




> Ivy will now be featured this fall in Harley and Ivy Meet Betty and Veronica. Sigh.
> 
> http://www.cbr.com/harley-ivy-betty-veronica-crossover/


That's actually... fun. I've fallen back in love with the Riverdale gang after the new show and the new revamped comics so I'm excited to see how this turns out. And anything that offers Adam Hughes variants is a HUGE plus.  :Big Grin:

----------


## WontonGirl

Man this uproar regarding Poison Ivy has really blown up! Tom King addressed the situation on his Twitter. It's gotten ugly on a lot of other sites to where people were commenting. 

https://twitter.com/TomKingTK/status/883390136905482240

----------


## HandofPrometheus

> Man this uproar regarding Poison Ivy has really blown up! Tom King addressed the situation on his Twitter. It's gotten ugly on a lot of other sites to where people were commenting. 
> 
> https://twitter.com/TomKingTK/status/883390136905482240


Lol one comment said Ivy fans don't read comics. Sad thing is those fans attacking King making it seem true.

----------


## darkseidpwns

This behaviour only incentivizes the creator to not use the character and as a consequence leaves Ivy stuck with Harley Quinn. King hasn't done anything the BOP writer or Layman didn't do. Ivy has been portrayed in a sympathetic light for years now and King so far hasn't done anything to contradict that. Even Chu had Pam kill and its certainly not like Dini's Stalked or Smiths oversexualized witch. This is the sort of crap that makes writers avoid a character like the plague. All this hassle over killing is entitlement of mentally disturbed people who take their fan fics far too seriously. There just isnt anything to judge Ivy yet. Infact I doubt there will be, she'll probably just be fodder in this Joker vs Riddler contest. That more cause for probable concern. Fans should ask for their characters to have meaty roles and character development, not dictate how the character sleeps, eats or walks or who she stands alongside or talks to.

----------


## WontonGirl

I think Social Media allows for fans to have greater access and more direct contact with the creators. I see this with TV shows all the time now. Fans going in on Executive Producers and Writers from TV shows about various characters and storylines not going certain ways. 

And then of course, fans attack each other. In that regards, they can show no mercy to each other.

----------


## WontonGirl

Also, remember the reason why these fans are upset. According to the Ivy fans, the reason they are upset is because Tom King said on a Twitter post that he had no intentions of making Ivy a killer. I think someone might had posted it here or in another thread but his response last week that he didn't originally had planned BUT things changed and he changed his mind so it could fit the story. I guess they feel he lied to them. 

I think that's another thing that is problematic. Some fans take the writer on every, single word the writer says and don't allow room for if the writer happens to change his/her mind.

----------


## Atlanta96

Ivy: *breathes*

Twitter: "OMG Tom King why are you ruining my favorite character? We trusted you!"

----------


## WontonGirl

> Ivy: *breathes*
> 
> Twitter: "OMG Tom King why are you ruining my favorite character? We trusted you!"


Now you know that's not how it went, LOL!

----------


## buck135

> That's actually... fun. I've fallen back in love with the Riverdale gang after the new show and the new revamped comics so I'm excited to see how this turns out. And anything that offers Adam Hughes variants is a HUGE plus.


I'm not a fan of Archie, but I'll support Ivy's inclusion with my purchase.   On a side note, I love Ivy's look in Batman 26. I'm tired of the New 52 look in Harley 23 however.

----------


## Confuzzled

Heads up, buck135 and fellow Ivy fans. Pam appears in today's _Batgirl and the Birds of Prey #12_ as promised.  :Big Grin:

----------


## buck135

> Heads up, buck135 and fellow Ivy fans. Pam appears in today's _Batgirl and the Birds of Prey #12_ as promised.


Thanks Confuzzled. I forgot all about this issue. Good thing there isn't a variant with Ivy on the cover otherwise I probably would have missed out at the cover price. I'll pick it up tomorrow. Thanks again!

----------


## buck135

> Thanks Confuzzled. I forgot all about this issue. Good thing there isn't a variant with Ivy on the cover otherwise I probably would have missed out at the cover price. I'll pick it up tomorrow. Thanks again!


I was able to get the very nice Catwoman variant cover. Excellent. Thanks again Confuzzled.

----------


## Frontier

So I guess no one knows for sure whether Ivy's current looks has leggings or not  :Stick Out Tongue: ?

----------


## buck135

> So I guess no one knows for sure whether Ivy's current looks has leggings or not ?


It's hard to say what her definitive Rebirth look is. She's drawn differently in every comic over the past year (Cycle of Life and Death, Batman, Batgirl, Birds of Prey, Harley Quinn, Bombshells, Trinity, etc).

----------


## Atlanta96

> It's hard to say what her definitive Rebirth look is. She's drawn differently in every comic over the past year (Cycle of Life and Death, Batman, Batgirl, Birds of Prey, Harley Quinn, Bombshells, Trinity, etc).


LOL, she has the most inconsistent design ever. She goes from the Life and Death look back to her New 52 look, to her classic look, to a brand new look in ASB, to the classic look again but minus the leggings...

----------


## millernumber1

> LOL, she has the most inconsistent design ever. She goes from the Life and Death look back to her New 52 look, to her classic look, to a brand new look in ASB, to the classic look again but minus the leggings...


I choose to think it's because she grows her own clothes.  :Smile:

----------


## Atlanta96

> I choose to think it's because she grows her own clothes.


She grows leggings and heeled boots herself...

----------


## millernumber1

> She grows leggings and heeled boots herself...


Well, cotton is a plant.  :Wink:

----------


## Confuzzled

> I was able to get the very nice Catwoman variant cover. Excellent. Thanks again Confuzzled.


Yay, welcome.  :Smile:

----------


## WontonGirl

I know before I said I love Ivy as a Villain and I still do but perhaps I am behind on the times with her personally because I noticed someone else call her an "anti-hero". 

So can somebody recommend some stories for me that shows this change or some recent runs where it's showing she is NOT a villain? I love reading new stories as I am catching up on a lot of the comics. 

Thanks!

----------


## Confuzzled

> I know before I said I love Ivy as a Villain and I still do but perhaps I am behind on the times with her personally because I noticed someone else call her an "anti-hero". 
> 
> So can somebody recommend some stories for me that shows this change or some recent runs where it's showing she is NOT a villain? I love reading new stories as I am catching up on a lot of the comics. 
> 
> Thanks!


These are some of the best grey shaded Ivy stories:

*Batman: Poison Ivy* by John Francis Moore (1997 one-shot)
*Batman/Poison Ivy: Cast Shadows* by Ann Nocenti
*Batman: No Man's Land Volume 3 (Fruit of the Earth 3-parter)* _(Batman: Shadow of the Bat #88, Batman #568, Detective Comics #735)_ 
*Batgirl Annual #2* by Gail Simone
*Poison Ivy: Cycle of Life and Death TPB* by Amy Chu
*All-Star Batman #7* by Scott Snyder
*Trinity Vol. 1: Better Together* by Francis Manapul

There are a few more but you could start with these.  :Smile:

----------


## buck135

> These are some of the best grey shaded Ivy stories:
> 
> *Batman: Poison Ivy* by John Francis Moore (1997 one-shot)
> *Batman/Poison Ivy: Cast Shadows* by Ann Nocenti
> *Batman: No Man's Land Volume 3 (Fruit of the Earth 3-parter)* _(Batman: Shadow of the Bat #88, Batman #568, Detective Comics #735)_ 
> *Batgirl Annual #2* by Gail Simone
> *Poison Ivy: Cycle of Life and Death TPB* by Amy Chu
> *All-Star Batman #7* by Scott Snyder
> *Trinity Vol. 1: Better Together* by Francis Manapul
> ...


Excellent choices. If you're a gamer, Ivy's presence in Arkham Knight is significant.

----------


## WontonGirl

Thanks all! I am willing to be open. 

And I have seen Ivy's game stories on YouTube for both Arkham Knight and Injustice. 85% of these stories I don't know so I guess I got some catching up to do. 

Please do know that I do like Ivy; Villain, Anti-Hero, Anti-Villain, it doesn't quite matter, I have always liked her. She kicks ass.

----------


## PwrdOn

> So I guess no one knows for sure whether Ivy's current looks has leggings or not ?


Well it really makes no sense why a nature-themed character would be wearing nylons, but somehow they give the classic Ivy costume that extra bit of pop to make it stand out.  Without them the outfit just looks kind of plain.



The one on the left is clearly Poison Ivy even if you've never heard of the movie, the one on the right is....I don't know what the hell that is.

----------


## Atlanta96

> Well it really makes no sense why a nature-themed character would be wearing nylons, but somehow they give the classic Ivy costume that extra bit of pop to make it stand out.  Without them the outfit just looks kind of plain.
> 
> 
> 
> The one on the left is clearly Poison Ivy even if you've never heard of the movie, the one on the right is....I don't know what the hell that is.


It's called a "Kardashian". It's very famous, but no one knows why. Scientists are working hard to find out.

----------


## PwrdOn

> It's called a "Kardashian". It's very famous, but no one knows why. Scientists are working hard to find out.


It is also irritating that the movie actually gave Ivy a costume that was nearly perfectly accurate to the comic, and then for some reason had her spend most of the film wearing something else.  Hardly the worst thing about the movie though, and on the whole Ivy's depiction was pretty good.

----------


## Atlanta96

> It is also irritating that the movie actually gave Ivy a costume that was nearly perfectly accurate to the comic, and then for some reason had her spend most of the film wearing something else.  Hardly the worst thing about the movie though, and on the whole Ivy's depiction was pretty good.


Ugh, no. I love Uma Thurman, but that was the worst performance of her career. Even Schwarzenegger had more restraint than she did.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> It is also irritating that the movie actually gave Ivy a costume that was nearly perfectly accurate to the comic, and then for some reason had her spend most of the film wearing something else.  Hardly the worst thing about the movie though, and on the whole Ivy's depiction was pretty good.


I liked the second costume but the final one....her make-up is terrible. I was annoyed by the costume change at first because the first one looks perfect but then I understand it represents her character going darker and darker. 

As for her acting, I agree it's not splendid but it does fit with the whole campiness of the movie. Which I don't love but accept as a choice. 

That being sad I can't wait for her to be portrayed more seriously on the big screen. Hope they do her justice.

----------


## darkseidpwns

> Ugh, no. I love Uma Thurman, but that was the worst performance of her career. Even Schwarzenegger had more restraint than she did.


Arnie has no regrets either, $25 million pay day does that for you.

----------


## PwrdOn

> I liked the second costume but the final one....her make-up is terrible. I was annoyed by the costume change at first because the first one looks perfect but then I understand it represents her character going darker and darker. 
> 
> As for her acting, I agree it's not splendid but it does fit with the whole campiness of the movie. Which I don't love but accept as a choice. 
> 
> That being sad I can't wait for her to be portrayed more seriously on the big screen. Hope they do her justice.


It seems that the classic costume, particularly the version with the green tights and heels as opposed to more recent barefoot outfits, is more associated with the campy, non-threatening Ivy and not the more modern and serious take on the character.  I suppose it makes sense though, it's definitely not the most intimidating look and she did get beat up quite a bit when wearing it but rarely got to kick much ass herself.

----------


## Agent Z

> It is also irritating that the movie actually gave Ivy a costume that was nearly perfectly accurate to the comic, and then for some reason had her spend most of the film wearing something else.  Hardly the worst thing about the movie though, and on the whole Ivy's depiction was pretty good.


How? She tried to freeze the Earth in contradiction to her plan and became obsessed with Freeze out of nowhere

----------


## Confuzzled

> How? She tried to freeze the Earth in contradiction to her plan and became obsessed with Freeze out of nowhere


Didn't she plan on the Ice Age giving birth to a new Green Age?

I agree that the Freeze obsession and trying to kill Nora as a result was too much. Still, in context of the camp, it was an enjoyable performance. I can't say the same for anyone else in that film, who did not make any effort in masking the suffering on their face.

----------


## PwrdOn

Somehow, all those leggy Ivy cosplays just wouldn't be the same without the green tights.  I think of them like the rug from the Big Lebowski, really ties that whole outfit together, man.

----------


## Confuzzled

It looks like Ivy and Selina are staying on BoP. Not surprising considering the title's dipping in sales and they needed to shake up the dynamics of the current team.

----------


## Frontier

I guess, judging by that cover, Ivy's not too bothered by the possibility that all men on Earth might die  :Stick Out Tongue: .

----------


## Confuzzled

> I guess, judging by that cover, Ivy's not too bothered by the possibility that all men on Earth might die .


Lol she looks bemused and even slightly excited



Since each of the other Birds have a man connected to them affected by the plague, I wonder whether the culprit behind it is a man connected to Ivy... Floronic Man? That would make sense what with the animated movie coming out. Could also be Grimley from her mini.

----------


## darkseidpwns

I dont think anyone will be bothering with Grimley ever, he only showed up in the final issue and got his ass kicked in the first few pages.

----------


## Atlanta96

> I guess, judging by that cover, Ivy's not too bothered by the possibility that all men on Earth might die .


I think we we've finally discovered why the Tumblr crowd wants Ivy to be a hero.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I dont think anyone will be bothering with Grimley ever, he only showed up in the final issue and got his ass kicked in the first few pages.


I thought no other writer would reference the mini but Hope Larson had Ivy travelling the globe to recover an ancient and exotic plant in _Batgirl_ just like she did at the start of the mini. So who knows?

Having said that, if my theory is true, my bet would be on Jason Woodrue, not Grimley.

----------


## darkseidpwns

The mini itself overall I cannot say but Grimley is finished as far as I'm concerned.

----------


## Confuzzled

SDCC vinyl statue designed by Sho Murase

----------


## Agent Z

> SDCC vinyl statue designed by Sho Murase


For a minute I thought this was Harley

----------


## Confuzzled

> For a minute I thought this was Harley


She's deliberately been designed with a red, black and white palette and the card "club" motifs for the flowers and leaves patterns to compliment the Harley statue

----------


## Frontier

> SDCC vinyl statue designed by Sho Murase


Looks kind of like a dark or corrupted version of Ivy...

----------


## buck135

> SDCC vinyl statue designed by Sho Murase


Reminds me of Morrigan from Darkstalkers. I'll pass on this statue.

----------


## WontonGirl

> SDCC vinyl statue designed by Sho Murase


No, no, no! This just makes her look like all she is, is a sidekick or love interest for Harley.

----------


## Confuzzled

> No, no, no! *This just makes her look like all she is, is a sidekick or love interest for Harley.*


Lol that Paul Dini. He's the individual most responsible for boosting Poison Ivy's popularity but also the one who has created the most traps for her to fall into.

----------


## buck135

> Lol that Paul Dini. He's the individual most responsible for boosting Poison Ivy's popularity but also the one who has created the most traps for her to fall into.


I couldn't have said it better myself.

----------


## buck135

...and Gotham City Sirens wasn't named at Comic Con as one of the many upcoming DC films. Disappointed.

----------


## Frontier

> ...and Gotham City Sirens wasn't named at Comic Con as one of the many upcoming DC films. Disappointed.


On a positive note, here's a better pic of Ivy from the DCEU intro:

----------


## Confuzzled

> ...and Gotham City Sirens wasn't named at Comic Con as one of the many upcoming DC films. Disappointed.


This person who claims to have been in Hall H for the DCEU panel said Poison Ivy appeared on the screen when they mentioned the Batgirl movie

https://twitter.com/HolyBatCast/stat...56124954259456

A couple of fans I've chatted with are theorising that Ivy will be the villain in Batgirl and then be brought back for Sirens, which is presumed to come out later.

----------


## WontonGirl

> ...and Gotham City Sirens wasn't named at Comic Con as one of the many upcoming DC films. Disappointed.


Probably because it's not a film yet. I mean, it's just a mention of a film. I thought the upcoming films were the films about to be released soon.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Probably because it's not a film yet. I mean, it's just a mention of a film. I thought the upcoming films were the films about to be released soon.


David Ayer spoke about the film at Comic Con




> _It's a story about three fantastic women who're trying to find their way in the world, and realize that they have more power together than they do individually. I have daughters, and I want to create something that might be able to help them get along in the world a little bit._

----------


## WontonGirl

> David Ayer spoke about the film at Comic Con


I stand corrected. Sorry.

----------


## Frontier

Ivy in the Batgirl solo would be interesting, though I'm not sure how I see Whedon handling her. 

Hopefully Ayer's comments about the Siren's movie means he won't go too far in terms of sexualizing the leads.

----------


## Atlanta96

> Ivy in the Batgirl solo would be interesting, though I'm not sure how I see Whedon handling her. 
> 
> Hopefully Ayer's comments about the Siren's movie means he won't go too far in terms of sexualizing the leads.


Yeah cause there's nothing sexual about these characters at all.

IMG_1099.JPG

Totally appropriate for small kids.

----------


## buck135

> This person who claims to have been in Hall H for the DCEU panel said Poison Ivy appeared on the screen when they mentioned the Batgirl movie
> 
> https://twitter.com/HolyBatCast/stat...56124954259456
> 
> A couple of fans I've chatted with are theorising that Ivy will be the villain in Batgirl and then be brought back for Sirens, which is presumed to come out later.


I would love that! Ivy as the main villian with a cameo from Catwoman and Harley would segue beautifully into Gotham City Sirens.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> Ivy in the Batgirl solo would be interesting, though I'm not sure how I see Whedon handling her. 
> 
> Hopefully Ayer's comments about the Siren's movie means he won't go too far in terms of sexualizing the leads.


I though the same thing and hope we are right. They are known to be sexy of course but we don't need to play only the sexy card because these are some of the most complex female characters in comics. 

Great news (if true) that she'll be in Batgirl. Can't wait for a casting announcement. When are Batgirls and Sirens suppose to come out?

----------


## Agent Z

> Yeah cause there's nothing sexual about these characters at all.
> 
> IMG_1099.JPG
> 
> Totally appropriate for small kids.


1) that's the type of image that people are likely to criticise 

2) these characters have been depicted in a way that is appropriate for children

----------


## Atlanta96

> 1) that's the type of image that people are likely to criticise 
> 
> 2) these characters have been depicted in a way that is appropriate for children


1) Not by the target audience of the film.

2) It's PG-13. This is not a bloody childrens film.

----------


## Agent Z

> 1) Not by the target audience of the film.
> 
> 2) It's PG-13. This is not a bloody childrens film.


1) the target audience that would be fine with that image is unlikely to be the one WB will be aiming for in future 

2) there is a huge middle ground between children's film and that image. PG13 doesn't mean soft core porn

----------


## Atlanta96

> 1) the target audience that would be fine with that image is unlikely to be the one WB will be aiming for in future 
> 
> 2) there is a huge middle ground between children's film and that image. PG13 doesn't mean soft core porn


1) LOL, did you even watch Suicide Squad?

IMG_1100.jpg

Same director as Gotham Sirens too.

2) If you think that image represents softcore porn then I think your morals need to be re-adjusted.

Dude, I really don't think these characters or this film are meant for you.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I though the same thing and hope we are right. They are known to be sexy of course but we don't need to play only the sexy card because these are some of the most complex female characters in comics. 
> 
> Great news (if true) that she'll be in Batgirl. Can't wait for a casting announcement. When are Batgirls and Sirens suppose to come out?


Since Whedon was taking the Gail Simone run as inspiration for the Batgirl movie and now with this Ivy news, I wonder if it means it will be influenced from Simone's Batgirl Annual #2 which had a complex take on Pamela (her sanity fluctuated depending on the changing seasons there).

Batgirl begins filming next year, so the theory is it will come out in late 2019 or that Valentine's date for 2020 that WB booked for a DCEU movie. Ayer said Sirens is a little way off but that we may hear something about it by next year's SDCC.

----------


## Agent Z

> 1) LOL, did you even watch Suicide Squad?
> 
> IMG_1100.jpg
> 
> Same director as Gotham Sirens too.
> 
> 2) If you think that image represents softcore porn then I think your morals need to be re-adjusted.
> 
> Dude, I really don't think these characters or this film are meant for you.


Yeah I watched Suicide Squad. I also am aware of its mixed reception and as is WB. I'm aware they've said the tone of their movies will be changing in future and I doubt they'll be doing the same stuff that many criticised again 

Oh my bad. I guess when I got exposed to these characters through those tv shows and movies that made them interesting characters without reducing them to spank material I should have known they weren't for me. Don't I have egg on my face

----------


## Atlanta96

> Yeah I watched Suicide Squad. I also am aware of its mixed reception and as is WB. I'm aware they've said the tone of their movies will be changing in future and I doubt they'll be doing the same stuff that many criticised again 
> 
> Oh my bad. I guess when I got exposed to these characters through those tv shows and movies that made them interesting characters without reducing them to spank material I should have known they weren't for me. Don't I have egg on my face


Harley Quinn is the breakout character of Suicide Squad and one of the few consistently praised aspects of the film. If SS sent a message it was "Don't make a sh*tty movie with a rushed script and convoluted message, but Harley Quinn was spot on". No one but a few puritans on the internet took issue with her sexuality, if anything it helped her character catch on.

And here you go again describing female characters as spank material. Do you have any idea how sexist you sound when you say that? It's one step away from "dirty sl*ts". You come off very badly on both sides of the aisle right now.

The vast majority of Ivy, Catwoman and Harley appearances in movies and TV have been sexualized to some extent, so I don't know why it bothers you now. Do I need to show you some pictures of Michelle Pfeiffer and Anne Hathaway in their Catwoman suits?

----------


## WontonGirl

I don't think the sexualization of these characters will be an issue. There are stories online right now about how actor Live Schreiber brought his *8 year old son* to Comic con dressed as Harley Quinn:

http://honey.nine.com.au/2017/07/24/...r-harley-quinn

I think kids just like what they like. They don't see sexuality with these characters until they get older.

----------


## Atlanta96

> I don't think the sexualization of these characters will be an issue. There are stories online right now about how actor Live Schreiber brought his *8 year old son* to Comic con dressed as Harley Quinn:
> 
> http://honey.nine.com.au/2017/07/24/...r-harley-quinn
> 
> I think kids just like what they like. They don't see sexuality with these characters until they get older.


Jesus Christ...

I wish parents wouldn't let their kids do this stuff and make it public, it could traumatize them when they're older.

----------


## Assam

> Jesus Christ...
> 
> I wish parents wouldn't let their kids do this stuff and make it public, it could traumatize them when they're older.


Huh? What are you talking about? 

Little kids wanting a relationship like Harley's with Joker, trying to be sexy like Harley and/or looking to Harley as a role-model are all things to get worried about. This is just a kid wearing a costume of a character he likes as far as we know. Nothing wrong with that.

----------


## Atlanta96

> Huh? What are you talking about? 
> 
> Little kids wanting a relationship like Harley's with Joker, trying to be sexy like Harley and/or looking to Harley as a role-model are all things to get worried about. This is just a kid wearing a costume of a character he likes as far as we know. Nothing wrong with that.


When he's in high school or college and someone digs up pictures of him dressed as a girl at age 9, and I'd relentlessly mocked and teased for it, then there will be a problem. I'm embarrassed enough by my childhood pictures and I'm not dressed like Harley Quinn in any of them.

----------


## Assam

> When he's in high school or college and someone digs up pictures of him dressed as a girl at age 9, and I'd relentlessly mocked and teased for it, then there will be a problem. I'm embarrassed enough by my childhood pictures and I'm not dressed like Harley Quinn in any of them.


People who'd make fun of a guy for dressing up as a girl, cosplay or otherwise, at any age are idiotic assholes who should just be ignored. I still thought I was completely male when I was a kid and I had no problem dressing up in girls clothes. I didn't post pictures of myself on the internet but hey, I didn't even start using social media till I started high school.

----------


## Atlanta96

> People who'd make fun of a guy for dressing up as a girl, cosplay or otherwise, at any age are idiotic assholes who should just be ignored. I still thought I was completely male when I was a kid and I had no problem dressing up in girls clothes. I didn't post pictures of myself on the internet but I didn't even start using social media till I started high school.


They are assholes but they exist. Parents should be more responsible about what they let their kids do publicly. In private, fine. No big deal. But don't plaster it all over the Internet.

----------


## Assam

> They are assholes but they exist. Parents should be more responsible about what they let their kids do publicly. In private, fine. No big deal. But don't plaster it all over the Internet.


Still thinking you're making a mountain out of a molehill. 

Plus, why are you placing "blame"  on the parents? Far as I can tell, they just went to ComicCon, and other people took pictures posted about it. You really want to tell an 8-year old kid they can't cosplay as a character they like because some idiots who natural selection has somehow allowed to survive might make fun of him?

----------


## CryNotWolf

> Yeah I watched Suicide Squad. I also am aware of its mixed reception and as is WB. I'm aware they've said the tone of their movies will be changing in future and I doubt they'll be doing the same stuff that many criticised again 
> 
> Oh my bad. I guess when I got exposed to these characters through those tv shows and movies that made them interesting characters without reducing them to spank material I should have known they weren't for me. Don't I have egg on my face


It always cracks me up when some goon comes along and tries to equate a character being sexualized to "being reduced to spank material". It's such an overdramatic and quite frankly immature position to hold. If Catwoman has proven anything it's that you can be both sexy AND interesting, even in BTAS, a show aimed at children. Obviously there's levels to it and it can and has been overdone, there's a fine line to strike to be sure, but when you're talking about someone like Catwoman, her powerful and confident sexuality is pretty much iconic and a definite part of her character, and denying that would be doing the her a disservice. Feminine sexuality isn't some boogeyman to be avoided.

----------


## Assam

> Feminine sexuality isn't some boogeyman to be avoided.


Exactly! Demonizing feminine sexuality is something that desperately needs to stop, as all it does is poison the minds and outlooks of the future. 

Back when I was involved in game journalism, I wrote an article about how Bayonetta is one of the best female role-models in video games, and one of the reasons I gave was because of how confident she was, both in her self as a person, and in her sexuality, showing that it's something to be proud of and not something to be slut-shamed for. 

All 3 of the Sirens have sexuality as part of their characters, but at their best, they're still 3-dimensional strong characters (Even if I personally don't care for Harley) and it isn't something that should be taken away from them.

----------


## Agent Z

> Harley Quinn is the breakout character of Suicide Squad and one of the few consistently praised aspects of the film. If SS sent a message it was "Don't make a sh*tty movie with a rushed script and convoluted message,


And one of the ways to avoid doing that is not sexualising women.




> but Harley Quinn was spot on". No one but a few puritans on the internet took issue with her sexuality, if anything it helped her character catch on.


Okay, free advice, if you want to be taken seriously in a debate about sexy vs sexualisation, maybe dont resort to to strawman arguments like calling people puritans.




> And here you go again describing female characters as spank material. Do you have any idea how sexist you sound when you say that? It's one step away from "dirty sl*ts". You come off very badly on both sides of the aisle right now.


I described a particular image of female characters as spank material. Please do not twist my words.




> The vast majority of Ivy, Catwoman and Harley appearances in movies and TV have been sexualized to some extent, so I don't know why it bothers you now. Do I need to show you some pictures of Michelle Pfeiffer and Anne Hathaway in their Catwoman suits?


Who says its only bothering me now? Hathaways outfit far less sexualised than Pfeifferes and neither is as ridiculous as the image I was talking about.

----------


## Agent Z

> It always cracks me up when some goon comes along and tries to equate a character being sexualized to "being reduced to spank material". It's such an overdramatic and quite frankly immature position to hold. If Catwoman has proven anything it's that you can be both sexy AND interesting, even in BTAS, a show aimed at children. Obviously there's levels to it and it can and has been overdone, there's a fine line to strike to be sure, but when you're talking about someone like Catwoman, her powerful and confident sexuality is pretty much iconic and a definite part of her character, and denying that would be doing the her a disservice. Feminine sexuality isn't some boogeyman to be avoided.


It always cracks me up how often people rush to the "you're just afraid of female sexuality" defense when ti comes to these debates.

----------


## Agent Z

> Exactly! Demonizing feminine sexuality is something that desperately needs to stop, as all it does is poison the minds and outlooks of the future. 
> 
> Back when I was involved in game journalism, I wrote an article about how Bayonetta is one of the best female role-models in video games, and one of the reasons I gave was because of how confident she was, both in her self as a person, and in her sexuality, showing that it's something to be proud of and not something to be slut-shamed for. 
> 
> All 3 of the Sirens have sexuality as part of their characters, but at their best, they're still 3-dimensional strong characters (Even if I personally don't care for Harley) and it isn't something that should be taken away from them.


I do agree that female sexuality should not be demonized. I just don't want it to be emphasied at the detriment of every other aspect of the character. I also cannot help but notice that the majority of the media's idea of what strong, confident female sexuality looks the same and is designed to appeal to the male gaze. You mentioned Bayonetta and while I do like the character, I also wonder if the message could have been gotten across without her having a move that involves her stripping naked. 

This image 

http://community.comicbookresources....9&d=1500831614
seems less like female sexuality being defended and rather it being packaged for horny teens to jerk off to. What exactly about this screams strong, 3-dimensional characters?

----------


## Assam

> I do agree that female sexuality should not be demonized. I just don't want it to be emphasied at the detriment of every other aspect of the character. I also cannot help but notice that the majority of the media's idea of what strong, confident female sexuality looks the same and is designed to appeal to the male gaze. You mentioned Bayonetta and while I do like the character, I also wonder if the message could have been gotten across without her having a move that involves her stripping naked.


I absolutely agree that there is a fine line to walk, and in media, depictions do often end up screwing up. In the case of this discussion, yes, pushing sexuality over ALL other traits for the Sirens would be bad, but it shouldn't be excluded either. In regards to the male gaze, an excerpt from my article:  "In 1987, Film Studies and Women’s Studies Prof. Jackie Stacey published an article entitled “Desperately Seeking Difference: Desire Between Women in Narrative Cinema." A major point made in this article is that the homosexual pleasures of viewers are generally ignored." While it's true that certain characters are presented in a way with the male gaze in mind, characters of any gender can be found sexy by both men AND women. 

In regards to Bayo, a separate excerpt from my article: _"In the book, The Ways of Seeing, by John Berger, he says this:

    "To be naked is to be oneself. To be nude is to be seen naked by others, and yet not recognized for oneself. A naked body has to be seen as an object in order to become a nude. Nakedness reveals itself. Nudity is placed on display. To be naked is to be without disguise." Bayonetta fights like a dancer. Dancing is a form of self-expression. And taking off her clothes is part of that self-expression._" 




> This image 
> 
> http://community.comicbookresources....9&d=1500831614
> seems less like female sexuality being defended and rather it being packaged for horny teens to jerk off to. What exactly about this screams strong, 3-dimensional characters?


Uh, is that from a published comic or cheesecakey fanart? Because the world of fanart is one where the sexualization of characters is most definitely equal opportunity. Some, like current Aquaman artist Stjepan Šejić, have even done some pretty gorgeous stuff. 

sejic.jpg

sejic 2.jpg

Unnecessary and out of place sexualization of characters is definitely a problem in the comic industry,_especially_ with teen characters, but with some, again, it's just part of who they are.

----------


## MzTropiqWonder

> I don't think the sexualization of these characters will be an issue. There are stories online right now about how actor Live Schreiber brought his *8 year old son* to Comic con dressed as Harley Quinn:
> 
> 
> 
> http://honey.nine.com.au/2017/07/24/...r-harley-quinn
> 
> 
> 
> I think kids just like what they like. They don't see sexuality with these characters until they get older.





> Jesus Christ...
> 
> I wish parents wouldn't let their kids do this stuff and make it public, it could traumatize them when they're older.


This might be a taboo topic but
1. as an Australian Early Childcare Educator, I see girls role play male heros all the time and no one bats an eye... A girl dressing up as a guy does not equal to her having issues or turning gay later on in life and that should apply to boys. Why is it ok for girls to roleplay male role models but it's not ok for boys to roleplay female role models?? Adult should not shame, look down or disrespect boys roleplaying females. In fact boys should be encouraged to admire the female role models they admire, and if it's through roleplaying so be it. Who knows maybe it will create a much more balanced and equal playing field for men and women in the future compared to what we have now and in the past.

2. That little boy's mother is Australian, Naomi Watts, and aussies in Hollywood are a tight knit. Maybe Naomi Watts and Margot Robbie are close and therefore Naomi's son wanted to support Margot. And if that is the case good on him..

----------


## Confuzzled

> A major point made in this article is that the homosexual pleasures of viewers are generally ignored."


That's because marketeers and media production houses usually ignore those pleasures when creating content. Also, there isn't always an overlap between say, what a straight man finds pleasurable and what a lesbian woman finds pleasurable. Case being this scene in the new Ghostbusters movie, catered to the lesbian gaze and which most straight men complained about.

----------


## CryNotWolf

> It always cracks me up how often people rush to the "you're just afraid of female sexuality" defense when ti comes to these debates.


Your words not mine. Maybe if you would actually listen to what other people had to say instead of being so close-minded, you wouldn't be having so many arguments online about this.

----------


## PwrdOn

I don't think anyone is prudishly opposed to female sexuality, it's just that people don't want to see that become the defining characteristic and want the other aspects of Ivy's personality explored too.  The problem here is that from inception Ivy was created with sex appeal as the primary trait and it remains the one and only thing people associate with her, not anything having to do with science or environmentalism.  A movie Ivy that focused on those aspects over her seductive appeal would be a depiction unrecognizable to most of the audience.

----------


## CryNotWolf

> I don't think anyone is prudishly opposed to female sexuality, it's just that people don't want to see that become the defining characteristic and want the other aspects of Ivy's personality explored too.  The problem here is that from inception Ivy was created with sex appeal as the primary trait and it remains the one and only thing people associate with her, not anything having to do with science or environmentalism.  A movie Ivy that focused on those aspects over her seductive appeal would be a depiction unrecognizable to most of the audience.


In both Batman and Robin and BTAS, her most famous adaptive incarnations, she was an uber-environmentalist and eco-terrorist. It was foundation of her character, with her sexuality being largely an addendum to take advantage of the male protagonists.

I think these kinds preemptive fears are unwarranted and, well, overly alarmist.

----------


## Rac7d*

Is Poison ivy really a lesbian or is it only Harley quinn she heas ever show attraction too. And even then that only when her humanity is still in tact, as her mutatui acelerates and she her compasion of human being dwindle isnt that when she tends to lose patience and distance herself from harley, her only allegiance becomes to the green.

----------


## Agent Z

> In both Batman and Robin and BTAS, her most famous adaptive incarnations, she was an uber-environmentalist and eco-terrorist. It was foundation of her character, with her sexuality being largely an addendum to take advantage of the male protagonists.
> 
> I think these kinds preemptive fears are unwarranted and, well, overly alarmist.


BTAS handled her sexuality with good taste which is what I've actually been arguing for. Batman & Robin did the opposite and is generally seen as a crappy depiction of the characters involved

----------


## Confuzzled

SDCC exclusive vinyl Funko pack of Ivy and Batgirl (hmm, having them paired up lends credence to that tweet of Pam appearing in Babs's movie, or am I reaching?  :Stick Out Tongue: )

----------


## Frontier

> SDCC exclusive vinyl Funko pack of Ivy and Batgirl (hmm, having them paired up lends credence to that tweet of Pam appearing in Babs's movie, or am I reaching? )


Well, whatever the case, these two look adorable  :Embarrassment: .

----------


## Confuzzled

> Well, whatever the case, these two look adorable .


They do! Ivy there is also giving me _Inside Out_ Disgust vibes  :Big Grin:

----------


## Atlanta96

> That's because marketeers and media production houses usually ignore those pleasures when creating content. Also, there isn't always an overlap between say, what a straight man finds pleasurable and what a lesbian woman finds pleasurable. Case being this scene in the new Ghostbusters movie, catered to the lesbian gaze and which most straight men complained about.


Please don't use Ghostbusters 2016 to make your points, it instantly crashes and burns whatever argument you were trying to make.




> I do agree that female sexuality should not be demonized. I just don't want it to be emphasied at the detriment of every other aspect of the character. I also cannot help but notice that the majority of the media's idea of what strong, confident female sexuality looks the same and is designed to appeal to the male gaze. You mentioned Bayonetta and while I do like the character, I also wonder if the message could have been gotten across without her having a move that involves her stripping naked.


The male gaze isn't a real thing. Even ignoring the heteronormativity of the term, it doesn't account for the fact that A) Even straight women can be visually stimulated by attractive women and B) Many women find that type of sexuality to be empowering, or at least appealing. I know this because of all the female artists and writers who work on those characters themselves. Need a list?

Also, the Wicked Weave is Bayonetta's signature move and fits in perfectly with her established character and the game. Again, I think you need to re-adjust your morals.




> This image 
> 
> http://community.comicbookresources....9&d=1500831614
> seems less like female sexuality being defended and rather it being packaged for horny teens to jerk off to. What exactly about this screams strong, 3-dimensional characters?


Have you read the book?

----------


## Confuzzled

> Please don't use Ghostbusters 2016 to make your points, it instantly crashes and burns whatever argument you were trying to make.


Atlanta hates the new Ghostbusters?

----------


## Atlanta96

> Atlanta hates the new Ghostbusters?


Me and many others.

IMG_1126.jpg

----------


## GamerSlyRatchet

> Is Poison ivy really a lesbian or is it only Harley quinn she heas ever show attraction too.


She's displayed genuine attraction towards Jason Woodrue (who used that to manipulate her), Batman, and in some continuities, Swamp Thing (or Alec Holland). But her most meaningful relationship has always been with Harley.

----------


## Confuzzled

> She's displayed genuine attraction towards Jason Woodrue (who used that to manipulate her), Batman, and in some continuities, Swamp Thing (or Alec Holland). But her most meaningful relationship has always been with Harley.


Hush/Ivy was a thing for a while too. She also flirted with Deadshot back in the Ostrander SS run. There was potential in her interactions with Weather Wizard and Darshan from the mini as well.

----------


## Baseman

> http://community.comicbookresources....9&d=1500831614
> seems less like female sexuality being defended and rather it being packaged for horny teens to jerk off to. What exactly about this screams strong, 3-dimensional characters?


I mean.You can't really make character judgements based on a cover.Don't really think its possible convey the message that 'this is a three -dimensional character' using a still image.




> That's because marketeers and media production houses usually ignore those pleasures when creating content. Also, there isn't always an overlap between say, what a straight man finds pleasurable and what a lesbian woman finds pleasurable. Case being this scene in the new Ghostbusters movie, catered to the lesbian gaze and which most straight men complained about.


How exactly is this catering to the ' lesbian gaze'?That scene just seems like friends screwing around at work which isn't something that only lesbians enjoy.What exactly was the complaint these men had?

----------


## Confuzzled

> How exactly is this catering to the ' lesbian gaze'?That scene just seems like friends screwing around at work which isn't something that only lesbians enjoy.What exactly was the complaint these men had?


Women who identify as LGBT said the character of Holtzmann was specifically catering to the lesbian gaze "without conforming to the male gaze", that scene being her turning on her charms (the other character there is straight though hence her awkward reactions). A lot of straight men have complained that scene and character were cringeworthy, meaning they weren't attracted to her. So that is an example where there was a solid distinction between "heterosexual pleasures" and "homosexual pleasures".

Even when it comes to depictions of conventionally attractive women in media, gay women have differing tastes than straight men. It comes down to how the women in question is depicted. Homosexual women are seldom attracted to objectified takes, and prefer more subtle sensuality.

----------


## WontonGirl

> She's displayed genuine attraction towards Jason Woodrue (who used that to manipulate her), Batman, and in some continuities, Swamp Thing (or Alec Holland). But her most meaningful relationship has always been with Harley.


Was it known if she had a sexual relationship with any of these men? 

And everybody is attracted to Batman. In fact, for years, some fans and critics used to think he was a repressed Homosexual as well.

----------


## Baseman

> Women who identify as LGBT said the character of Holtzmann was specifically catering to the lesbian gaze "without conforming to the male gaze", that scene being her turning on her charms (the other character there is straight though hence her awkward reactions). A lot of straight men have complained that scene and character were cringeworthy, meaning they weren't attracted to her. So that is an example where there was a solid distinction between "heterosexual pleasures" and "homosexual pleasures".
> 
> Even when it comes to depictions of conventionally attractive women in media, gay women have differing tastes than straight men. It comes down to how the women in question is depicted. Homosexual women are seldom attracted to objectified takes, and prefer more subtle sensuality.


I don't know if I'ed agree.Looking at the comment section of the video in question.It seems that pretty of guys loved Holtzman as a character. Granted the type of attraction may be different (guys may have more of a  'isn't she adorable!' Type) but a attraction still exist.I'm sorry but as a example of heterosexual mans and homosexual women tastes differ its falls short to me.


Isn't it more reasonable to assume that the guys that complained had a problem with the movies style in general rather than the character?

----------


## Confuzzled

> I don't know if I'ed agree.Looking at the comment section of the video in question.It seems that pretty of guys loved Holtzman as a character. Granted the type of attraction may be different (guys may have more of a  'isn't she adorable!' Type) but a attraction still exist.I'm sorry but as a example of heterosexual mans and homosexual women tastes differ its falls short to me.
> 
> 
> Isn't it more reasonable to assume that the guys that complained had a problem with the movies style in general rather than the character?


How do you know all of those guys are straight or are attracted to the opposite sex lol. Having said that, not every straight guy is going to hate it of course. Going by what I've seen and read in real life and online, I've just seen many LGBT women readily call the character sexy as opposed to straight guys. One of them in particular said the character catered to the "queer" female gaze without conforming to the straight male gaze, as I told you before.

Usually gay women always prefer tasteful takes on women's sexuality rather than objectification or over the top cheesecakery.

----------


## Atlanta96

> A lot of straight men have complained that scene and character were cringeworthy, meaning they weren't attracted to her.


A year later, and you still can't dislike or criticize Ghostbusters 2016 without being labeled a sexist or a bigot.

----------


## Frontier

Poison Ivy returns in this Justice League Action short, along with the "Ivy League":

----------


## Confuzzled

> Poison Ivy returns in this Justice League Action short, along with the "Ivy League":


OMG at Ivy leading her own team. Makes it hard to root for the League.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Confuzzled

Gorgeous variant cover for _Batgirl and the Birds of Prey #13_. I'm sure buck is itching to get it!  :Big Grin:

----------


## dodoriazarbon

Who is the fire wielder in that JL Action short?

----------


## buck135

Oh yes, that will be mine! Thanks for the post as always.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Who is the fire wielder in that JL Action short?


Satan Girl




> Oh yes, that will be mine! Thanks for the post as always.


Always a pleasure sir

----------


## GamerSlyRatchet

> Who is the fire wielder in that JL Action short?


Ember, a Zatanna villain and henchwoman of Brother Night, also a Zatanna villain, who were created by Paul Dini. Dini also wrote this short.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Ember, a Zatanna villain and henchwoman of Brother Night, also a Zatanna villain, who were created by Paul Dini. Dini also wrote this short.


Are you sure it isn't Satan Girl? She was announced to be a part of the show very early on and the devilish horns make it seem like it's her instead of Ember despite the fire powers



Even the JLA wikia identifies the character as SG:http://justice-league-action.wikia.com/wiki/Satan_Girl

----------


## Red obin

> Gorgeous variant cover for _Batgirl and the Birds of Prey #13_. I'm sure buck is itching to get it!


Damn, normally I get the variants but this time i preordered the regular- kinda regret it now!

----------


## Frontier

> Are you sure it isn't Satan Girl? She was announced to be a part of the show very early on and the devilish horns make it seem like it's her instead of Ember despite the fire powers
> 
> 
> 
> Even the JLA wikia identifies the character as SG:http://justice-league-action.wikia.com/wiki/Satan_Girl


She was called Ember in the actual episode she appeared in though.

----------


## Deadly Garden

A couple of things. So, the last time I posted anything to this page was months ago. I was knocking heads with somebody who was looking for a fight - somebody I've likely dealt with in other places. I was triggered. I just wanted ONE place to hide and talk about my favorite character. A place that is thoughtful, spirited, and fun. I was aghast at the idea that this "League" was coming here in drips and fits to, once again, hijack any discussion of Poison Ivy with their bizarre lists of demands. I am not a bombastic person - I don't get loud. But this misguided horde of people stalk, and campaign, and bully people to the point of hysterics. I've seen the reaction of creators hired by DC to create stories for Poison Ivy - and you can tell they don't even want to bother (with this character) because it's damned if you do, damned if you don't. I pity Tom King. The most unfortunate outcome of all this is now they've become "the face" of Poison Ivy fans. So now, fans and the character herself are being mocked and shunned because of their antics. You know it's bad when Ivy fandom now ranks lower in reputation to Harley Quinn fandom. (ugh) That being said...I've cooled off (mostly). But for a while there I was being suffocated. I'll push back if necessary but I really can't be bothered with "them" because it's enough to make a person go bonkers. (I mean REALLY, just today the founder of said League said that Dini created "Ivy League" the JLAction short as a slam at their group. But backtracked with a "JK".)

Anyway. I bought the TNBA vinyl statue of Poison Ivy - and it's done very well. I'm not sure why they didn't provide better promo pics. It's perfect. AND reasonably priced. Here's a 360 angle view: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03TzQsTHdWI

Also. There's a story being floated about Ayers being dropped from Gotham City Sirens - and the movie being scrapped altogether in favor of a Birds of Prey film. Interesting, but seems a bit far fetched. 

***

This rumor has been posted to the DCEUleaks subreddit, which interstingly enough was posted prior to the earlier news of the Gotham City Sirens movie possibly not happening (update: it's now said GCS is happening), which saw director David Ayer slam WB at Comic-Con and call Suicide Squad BS, in addition to it being said Gotham City Sirens was never green lit in the first place.

Highlights from the "rumor" include the Gotham City Sirens movie is getting replaced by a Birds of Prey movie, with the redditor claiming he/she works for WB PR.

Gotham City Sirens:

WB is said to not be happy with Ayer's vision for Gotham City Sirens because it focused and starred Margot Robbie's Harley Quinn with the other characters taking a back seat. WB is said to want Catwoman and Poison Ivy as stars as well. WB and Ayer butted heads over casting as it is said Ayer wanted a younger actress for Catwoman and was not willing to come to a compromise over the age. WB is said to want a Catwoman closer to the age of Ben Affleck. David Ayer is said to have changed Catwoman and Poison Ivy's origin, which WB didn't think would go over well. Under Ayer, Selina would be an ex-cop, while Ivy would be a grad student without her chlorokinesis powers. It's said "due to the large creative differences, WB pushed Ayer out of the project and started searching for replacements."

Birds of Prey:

Nicolas Winding Refn is said to now be developing a Birds of Prey movie, which has been worked on for the past three months and will focus on Black Canary, but it will keep the other characters as main characters, not secondary characters. Black Mask is said to be the main villain of the Birds of Prey movie, and is said to have recently enacted a coupe to overthrow Gotham City, and Black Mask has also rendered Batman indisposed leading to Black Canary being left to set things right. Green Arrow is said to be Batman's backup if things go wrong, but Green Arrow gets captured by Black Mask while as Oliver Queen, as Ollie has info on the mafias (including Black Mask). Harley Quinn is said to be hunting down the Joker, as Joker betrayed her and the two had a falling out (interestingly enough, a Harley Quinn vs Joker movie is now rumored). Huntress has been taking down mob bosses and finds Carmine Falcone (murdered Huntress' family) who has aligned himself with Black Mask. Black Mask burns Poison Ivy’s home down when she refuses to help him take over Gotham, and Catwoman is searching for Batman and is asked by Harley Quinn to “save” Ivy from her own rampage.

Regarding casting:

Husband and wife team of Emily Blunt and John Krasinski are wanted as Black Canary and Green Arrow, respectively. It's said both are extremely interested in the roles, but Emily has been very busy and may not be able to take the role. WB's second choice for Black Canary is said to be Rebecca Ferguson. For Huntress, WB is said to want an actress of mixed black heritage in their early 30s. Actresses said to be in contention are: Gugu Mbatha-Raw, Sonequa Martin-Green and Amber Stevens West. Sonequa Martin-Green is currently the front-runner for the role. For Poison Ivy, WB is said to want someone who is around Margot Robbie’s age to play the role. The only actress said to be looked at is Jane Levy. For Catwoman, WB wants someone around Affleck’s age for the role. They are said to be looking at Latina actresses: Leonor Varela and Paz Vega. It's said to expect someone with a big name for the role of Catwoman, so the list could always change. WB is said to want Kelly Hu as Shiva. It's said there is no casting news on Black Mask as of now.

----------


## WontonGirl

> Husband and wife team of Emily Blunt and John Krasinski are wanted as Black Canary and Green Arrow, respectively. It's said both are extremely interested in the roles, but Emily has been very busy and may not be able to take the role. WB's second choice for Black Canary is said to be Rebecca Ferguson. For Huntress, WB is said to want an actress of mixed black heritage in their early 30s. Actresses said to be in contention are: Gugu Mbatha-Raw, Sonequa Martin-Green and Amber Stevens West. Sonequa Martin-Green is currently the front-runner for the role. For Poison Ivy, WB is said to want someone who is around Margot Robbie’s age to play the role. The only actress said to be looked at is Jane Levy. For Catwoman, WB wants someone around Affleck’s age for the role. They are said to be looking at Latina actresses: Leonor Varela and Paz Vega. It's said to expect someone with a big name for the role of Catwoman, so the list could always change. WB is said to want Kelly Hu as Shiva. It's said there is no casting news on Black Mask as of now.


I think Morena Baccarin would be a good choice for Catwoman. And I think Karen Gillan would be good for Ivy. She's 29 so that's closer to Margot's age.

----------


## Confuzzled

The David Ayer/Gotham City Sirens leaks are confirmed to be rumors as Ayer spoke at Comic Con about making Sirens for his daughters and posted a picture of Harley Quinn on his Twitter just a couple of days back, probably as a rebuttal of the talks of him being fired. So I assume everything else from that DCEULeaks info is false too, including Birds of Prey.

Interestingly, a podcaster who was at DCEU's panel at Comic Con said that Poison Ivy was shown on the screen when they mentioned the Batgirl movie. He is theorising that Ivy will be introduced in Batgirl first, setting her up for Gotham City Sirens. So if that is true and 2/3rds of the Sirens would be established in the movie verse before their own film, I'm guessing Ms. Kyle will likely be introduced first elsewhere as well.

----------


## Atlanta96

I'm starting to lean towards Rose Leslie from Game of Thrones as my ideal Poison Ivy. I insist on a natural redhead. Jessica Chastain and Karen Gillan are amazing actors but I don't think they're right for the part, Rose really nails the Ivy look and I think she has the acting chops too.

----------


## WontonGirl

> I'm starting to lean towards Rose Leslie from Game of Thrones as my ideal Poison Ivy. I insist on a natural redhead. Jessica Chastain and Karen Gillan are amazing actors but I don't think they're right for the part, Rose really nails the Ivy look and I think she has the acting chops too.


I thought about Rose Leslie but does she have the "sensuality" for the role? I mean, that's something I also think about as well. 

They probably would think Jessica is too old for the role. She's 40 so that would put her right up there with Ben.

----------


## WontonGirl

> The David Ayer/Gotham City Sirens leaks are confirmed to be rumors as Ayer spoke at Comic Con about making Sirens for his daughters and posted a picture of Harley Quinn on his Twitter just a couple of days back, probably as a rebuttal of the talks of him being fired. So I assume everything else from that DCEULeaks info is false too, including Birds of Prey.
> 
> Interestingly, a podcaster who was at DCEU's panel at Comic Con said that Poison Ivy was shown on the screen when they mentioned the Batgirl movie. He is theorising that Ivy will be introduced in Batgirl first, setting her up for Gotham City Sirens. So if that is true and 2/3rds of the Sirens would be established in the movie verse before their own film, I'm guessing Ms. Kyle will likely be introduced first elsewhere as well.


Yeah, I'm not paying attention to any rumors unless they are Wonder Woman related  :Big Grin:

----------


## Confuzzled

> I thought about Rose Leslie but does she have the "sensuality" for the role? I mean, that's something I also think about as well. 
> 
> They probably would think Jessica is too old for the role. She's 40 so that would put her right up there with Ben.


Rose Leslie is more Babsgirl than Pam anyway (though I think she may be a little older than the age range they'd be interested in for DCEU Barbara).

The No. 1 pick for Ivy among _Game of Thrones_ alumni is

----------


## MentalManipulator

> I thought about Rose Leslie but does she have the "sensuality" for the role? I mean, that's something I also think about as well. 
> 
> They probably would think Jessica is too old for the role. She's 40 so that would put her right up there with Ben.


I agree...she's a good actress but not beautiful or sexy enough for Ivy. I think Ivy has to look smart, calculating, sexy and otherworldly beautiful.

Hope we get official news on this soon. When do you think will be a good time for official announcements before ComicCon next year?

----------


## Confuzzled

> I agree...she's a good actress but not beautiful or sexy enough for Ivy. I think Ivy has to look smart, calculating, sexy and otherworldly beautiful.
> 
> Hope we get official news on this soon. When do you think will be a good time for official announcements before ComicCon next year?


It depends on whether or not the news is true of Ivy appearing in the _Batgirl_ movie. Geoff Johns said that movie is going to be filming next year, so the casting for the Ivy actress would be announced a little after the reveal of the Babsgirl actress. It could be pretty early next year, or even as soon as this December.

----------


## Rac7d*

> A couple of things. So, the last time I posted anything to this page was months ago. I was knocking heads with somebody who was looking for a fight - somebody I've likely dealt with in other places. I was triggered. I just wanted ONE place to hide and talk about my favorite character. A place that is thoughtful, spirited, and fun. I was aghast at the idea that this "League" was coming here in drips and fits to, once again, hijack any discussion of Poison Ivy with their bizarre lists of demands. I am not a bombastic person - I don't get loud. But this misguided horde of people stalk, and campaign, and bully people to the point of hysterics. I've seen the reaction of creators hired by DC to create stories for Poison Ivy - and you can tell they don't even want to bother (with this character) because it's damned if you do, damned if you don't. I pity Tom King. The most unfortunate outcome of all this is now they've become "the face" of Poison Ivy fans. So now, fans and the character herself are being mocked and shunned because of their antics. You know it's bad when Ivy fandom now ranks lower in reputation to Harley Quinn fandom. (ugh) That being said...I've cooled off (mostly). But for a while there I was being suffocated. I'll push back if necessary but I really can't be bothered with "them" because it's enough to make a person go bonkers. (I mean REALLY, just today the founder of said League said that Dini created "Ivy League" the JLAction short as a slam at their group. But backtracked with a "JK".)
> 
> Anyway. I bought the TNBA vinyl statue of Poison Ivy - and it's done very well. I'm not sure why they didn't provide better promo pics. It's perfect. AND reasonably priced. Here's a 360 angle view: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03TzQsTHdWI
> 
> Also. There's a story being floated about Ayers being dropped from Gotham City Sirens - and the movie being scrapped altogether in favor of a Birds of Prey film. Interesting, but seems a bit far fetched. 
> 
> ***
> 
> This rumor has been posted to the DCEUleaks subreddit, which interstingly enough was posted prior to the earlier news of the Gotham City Sirens movie possibly not happening (update: it's now said GCS is happening), which saw director David Ayer slam WB at Comic-Con and call Suicide Squad BS, in addition to it being said Gotham City Sirens was never green lit in the first place.
> ...


This is a mess

----------


## MentalManipulator

> It depends on whether or not the news is true of Ivy appearing in the _Batgirl_ movie. Geoff Johns said that movie is going to be filming next year, so the casting for the Ivy actress would be announced a little after the reveal of the Babsgirl actress. It could be pretty early next year, or even as soon as this December.


Fingers crossed the rumors are true...the more Ivy the better. Specially if she's the villain in one movie and an anti-hero on the other. Because for me that's Ivy...an ambiguous character.

----------


## darkeyes

It is probably wishful thinking, but I would love to see a shapely actress playing Poison Ivy.  I always thought she looked best as a curvaceous seductress rather than your typical anorexic runway model.

Also, I was pretty happy that a friend picked up one of those SDCC exclusive Diamond Select Poison Ivy Gem Edition statues for me.  I think they both make great representations of the Animated Series Ivy.

Ivy Gem 09.jpg

----------


## Confuzzled

> Fingers crossed the rumors are true...the more Ivy the better. Specially if she's the villain in one movie and an anti-hero on the other. Because for me that's Ivy...an ambiguous character.


That would be a great character trajectory and could rival Magneto's in the X-Men films.




> It is probably wishful thinking, but I would love to see a shapely actress playing Poison Ivy.  I always thought she looked best as a curvaceous seductress rather than your typical anorexic runway model.
> 
> Also, I was pretty happy that a friend picked up one of those SDCC exclusive Diamond Select Poison Ivy Gem Edition statues for me.  I think they both make great representations of the Animated Series Ivy.
> 
> Ivy Gem 09.jpg


Great statue. Amazing how much Ivy merchandise gets produced each year. Girl really sells, huh?

----------


## MentalManipulator

> That would be a great character trajectory and could rival Magneto's in the X-Men films.


Exactly ! I always compare her to Magneto in the sense were they are both villains with really strong points and a real purpose.

----------


## Confuzzled

I had no clue this existed until now (MAD magazine variant for New 52's _Batgirl_ #30)

----------


## darkeyes

Wow, that is great.  I might have to track that down.

----------


## buck135

> I had no clue this existed until now (MAD magazine variant for New 52's _Batgirl_ #30)


Ivy has been on the cover of countless variants. I'm constantly finding new one's such as this. Thanks.

----------


## buck135

"Jessica Chastain confirms ‘X-Men: Dark Phoenix’ villain role." 

Well now we can stop adding her name as a potential candidate to play Ivy.

----------


## buck135

Ivy is on the cover of both DC Comics Bombshells 32 and Batman 28 (she's on one of the playing cards). These issues were released today. She is featured in one of the stories in Bombshells along with Harley and in only one panel amongst various other Rogues in the Batman issue.

----------


## Confuzzled

CBR interviewed some of the cast and makers of _Batman and Harley Quinn_, including Paget Brewster who voices Poison Ivy in the film. She talks about Ivy's perspective on Man vs. Nature and her relationship with Harley.

Interestingly, this seems to be a more "humankind hating" Ivy but Brewster still says she doesn't find the character evil and that her motivations are understandable.

----------


## Frontier

I'm actually a little more curious how they're going to depict the relationship with Woodrue here...

----------


## Confuzzled

> I'm actually a little more curious how they're going to depict the relationship with Woodrue here...


Me too. Come to think of it, we never got a backstory for Ivy in the DCAU, which is surprising since her tenure lasted for near 15 years in animation and comics.

They are taking a wink/tease approach when it comes to this movie's continuity in the DCAU.

----------


## Confuzzled

This was an earlier design for Sho Murase's SDCC vinyl statue. I far prefer it to what we actually got  :Frown:

----------


## Frontier

> Me too. Come to think of it, we never got a backstory for Ivy in the DCAU, which is surprising since her tenure lasted for near 15 years in animation and comics.
> 
> They are taking a wink/tease approach when it comes to this movie's continuity in the DCAU.


I don't think they gave Catwoman much of an origin either, come to think of it. They both kind of just debuted as fully-formed villainesses and never got a "Mad Love" story like Harley did.  



> This was an earlier design for Sho Murase's SDCC vinyl statue. I far prefer it to what we actually got


I like the hair and plant-whip (even if it's a little Catwoman-y)  :Smile: .

----------


## Confuzzled

> I don't think they gave Catwoman much of an origin either, come to think of it. They both kind of just debuted as fully-formed villainesses and never got a "Mad Love" story like Harley did.  
> 
> I like the hair and plant-whip (even if it's a little Catwoman-y) .


I know. But since Selina didn't have superpowers, I think it was easy to assume she just became rich by starting her cat burglar career at an early age. Pam's immunity to all kinds of toxins did raise questions. I think one of the comics (_The Batman Adventures #12_, I think?) had a biodata section on her at the back that claimed she was born with the immunity, but I'm not sure if I'm remembering it correctly.

The hair in that design does make it look more like Ivy because it is very "nature goddess/faerie queen-esque", an aesthetic that has been associated with Pamela since the 90's. Plant whip looked cool too, if slightly derivative.

----------


## buck135

Ivy is on the cover (and the variant) and featured in Batgirl and the Birds of Prey #13. Interestingly enough, my local shop only had three copies of the regular and one variant (which I purchased). Ivy is also featured in Harley Quinn #25.

----------


## Confuzzled

BatBoP #13 was fun. LMAO @ Ivy using a variant of Mufasa's "Circle of Life" principle to justify her fondness for all things vegan (including cheese and burgers)!  :Stick Out Tongue: 

Btw there's an Ivy solo story coming at the end of November in DC's _New Talent Showcase 2017_ #1






> _NEW TALENT SHOWCASE 2017 #1
> Written by ERICA HARRELL, DESIRÉE PROCTOR, DAVE ACCAMPO, AARON GILLESPIE, AL LETSON, TONY PATRICK and OWL GOINGBACK
> Art by SAM LOTFI, MINKYU JUNG, LYNNE YOSHII, SIYA OUM, MATT MERHOFF, LALIT SHARMA and JAGDISH KUMAR
> Cover by JIM LEE and SCOTT WILLIAMS
> That latest graduates from the DC Talent Development Workshops show off their skills in stories starring some of DC’s greatest characters. In these tales, Poison Ivy fights an ancient demon, Doctor Fate is confronted by the cost of magic, Red Hood and Duke Thomas face off in a training day simulation and so much more!_

----------


## buck135

> BatBoP #13 was fun. LMAO @ Ivy using a variant of Mufasa's "Circle of Life" principle to justify her fondness for all things vegan (including cheese and burgers)! 
> 
> Btw there's an Ivy solo story coming at the end of November in DC's _New Talent Showcase 2017_ #1


Thanks for the heads up. I'll be getting this for sure. BatBoP 13 was rather entertaining. I'm curious if they are planning on using Ivy going forward.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Thanks for the heads up. I'll be getting this for sure. BatBoP 13 was rather entertaining. I'm curious if they are planning on using Ivy going forward.


Yes, they are. Selina and Pam are confirmed to be a part of the next arc and also featured on the cover for Issue #15

----------


## Frontier

> BatBoP #13 was fun. LMAO @ Ivy using a variant of Mufasa's "Circle of Life" principle to justify her fondness for all things vegan (including cheese and burgers)! 
> 
> Btw there's an Ivy solo story coming at the end of November in DC's _New Talent Showcase 2017_ #1


I had no idea we were getting another New Talent Showcase. Should be interesting. 

Ivy fighting a demon sounds cool, though with all the stuff going on (her joining with the Birds, getting her own company so she doesn't have to commit crimes, and this) it seems like DC is starting to push her as more of a hero now. Curious to see how long it lasts. 

And I guess Ivy will be sporting bare legs going forward  :Stick Out Tongue: .

----------


## Confuzzled

> I had no idea we were getting another New Talent Showcase. Should be interesting. 
> 
> Ivy fighting a demon sounds cool, though with all the stuff going on (her joining with the Birds, getting her own company so she doesn't have to commit crimes, and this) it seems like DC is starting to push her as more of a hero now. Curious to see how long it lasts. 
> 
> And I guess Ivy will be sporting bare legs going forward .


The official DC website puts her in the "It's Complicated" section when it comes to her alignment along with the other Sirens and Suicide Squad members. I guess each new artist will have a different design for Ivy's clothing now?  :Stick Out Tongue: 

Btw Pam made the _Injustice 2_ #11 cover and solicit (out in October):

 




> _The siege of Ra’s al Ghul’s jungle stronghold builds to a fever pitch, with Batman ensnared by a furious Poison Ivy. The team frantically searches for the kidnapped children but Damian’s not about to let anyone rescue the man who means more to him than anyone._

----------


## buck135

Thanks Confuzzled.

----------


## PwrdOn

> And I guess Ivy will be sporting bare legs going forward .


Clearly a huge mistake, especially given that by far her best depiction since Rebirth has been Manapul's work on Trinity, and her tights were pretty much on point that whole arc.

----------


## Agent Z

> The official DC website puts her in the "It's Complicated" section when it comes to her alignment along with the other Sirens and Suicide Squad members. I guess each new artist will have a different design for Ivy's clothing now? 
> 
> Btw Pam made the _Injustice 2_ #11 cover and solicit (out in October):


That solicit is either a typo or Damian is so nuts he's actually going to prevent others from saving his dad so he'll take the credit himself

----------


## Frontier

> Clearly a huge mistake, especially given that by far her best depiction since Rebirth has been Manapul's work on Trinity, and her tights were pretty much on point that whole arc.


Okay, first, Francis Manapul should draw more Poison Ivy. 

Second, I don't know what happened since it seemed to be consistent with the Rebirth design thta she was abck in her classic look with the leggings, but now I guess it's just been dropped like her _Cycle of Life and Death_ outfit.

----------


## WontonGirl

> Btw Pam made the _Injustice 2_ #11 cover and solicit (out in October):


#11? I'm confused. #18 is out now. Is that a typo?

----------


## Confuzzled

> #11? I'm confused. #18 is out now. Is that a typo?


No. http://www.dccomics.com/comics/injus...injustice-2-11

You must be confusing it with the digitally exclusive "Chapters", which are a different series I believe.

----------


## WontonGirl

> No. http://www.dccomics.com/comics/injus...injustice-2-11
> 
> You must be confusing it with the digitally exclusive "Chapters", which are a different series I believe.


I'm reading the same thing. What I'm reading has Supergirl on the cover as well for #11. 

So I'm still confused. Injustice 2 is on Issue #18, from what I'm reading.

----------


## Caivu

> No. http://www.dccomics.com/comics/injus...injustice-2-11
> 
> You must be confusing it with the digitally exclusive "Chapters", which are a different series I believe.


It's not a different series. The digital issues are released first, and then the print issues later in the month. The print issues collect about two or three of the digital ones.

----------


## Confuzzled

> It's not a different series. The digital issues are released first, and then the print issues later in the month. The print issues collect about two or three of the digital ones.


Any idea about what WontonGirl is referring to? Is the series really at Issue #18 or is it "Chapter" #18 which is a different thing? That Ivy solicit has been circulated to multiple outlets so it would be a major blunder if the issue being numbered as "#11" is a typo.

----------


## WontonGirl

> It's not a different series. The digital issues are released first, and then the print issues later in the month. The print issues collect about two or three of the digital ones.


Exactly! I am on Chapter 18! Or Issue #18.

----------


## WontonGirl

> Any idea about what WontonGirl is referring to? Is the series really at Issue #18 or is it "Chapter" #18 which is a different thing? That Ivy solicit has been circulated to multiple outlets so it would be a major blunder if the issue being numbered as "#11" is a typo.


It could be Chapter 18. But this is the cover right now and the cover of the digital copy that I am reading now:

RCO001.jpg

Now she could be on a cover in October. I just don't know what Chapter that would be.

----------


## Confuzzled

> It could be Chapter 18. But this is the cover right now and the cover of the digital copy that I am reading now:
> 
> RCO001.jpg
> 
> Now she could be on a cover in October. I just don't know what Chapter that would be.


Okay, Chapter "11" with the Supergirl cover is posted as "Issue #6" on the official website: http://www.dccomics.com/comics/injustice-2-2017/injustice-2-6 

What I _think_ is the deal is that each physical copy issue contains multiple _chapters_ in it. Which is the reason for the incongruent numbers. So if each issue has 2 chapters, then if Chapter "18" is out now, that would make it the second half of "Issue #9". It fits with the Ivy Issue #11 being two months away.

----------


## WontonGirl

> Okay, Chapter "11" with the Supergirl cover is posted as "Issue #6" on the official website: http://www.dccomics.com/comics/injustice-2-2017/injustice-2-6 
> 
> What I _think_ is the deal is that each physical copy issue contains multiple _chapters_ in it. Which is the reason for the incongruent numbers. So if each issue has 2 chapters, then if Chapter "18" is out now, that would make it the second half of "Issue #9". It fits with the Ivy Issue #11 being two months away.


Yes that makes sense! Can't wait to see Ivy on the cover!

----------


## buck135

Ivy's on the cover of Batman #29 (with other villains) which will be available this Wednesday.

----------


## Caivu

> What I _think_ is the deal is that each physical copy issue contains multiple _chapters_ in it. Which is the reason for the incongruent numbers. So if each issue has 2 chapters, then if Chapter "18" is out now, that would make it the second half of "Issue #9". It fits with the Ivy Issue #11 being two months away.


Yes. This is almost exactly what I said earlier...

----------


## WontonGirl

> Ivy's on the cover of Batman #29 (with other villains) which will be available this Wednesday.


Yeah she will be in it too. And she has on the leggings.

----------


## buck135

> Yeah she will be in it too. And she has on the leggings.


I picked it up. Ivy isn't given anything to say (or do). That said, this issue isn't about her.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I picked it up. Ivy isn't given anything to say (or do). That said, this issue isn't about her.


Omg she was wearing a Nazi-esque Riddler arm band?  :EEK!:  



Twitter is going off. What are your guys' thoughts on this? I find it more silly than appalling. What's King doing lol

----------


## WhiteQueenEmmaFrost

the arm band thing isn't specific to Nazi's. Football players wear them to commemorate the loss of a player or fans.

----------


## buck135

> Omg she was wearing a Nazi-esque Riddler arm band?  
> 
> 
> 
> Twitter is going off. What are your guys' thoughts on this? I find it more silly than appalling. What's King doing lol


Good grief, I didn't even notice that. I think the whole story arc is rather goofy, so I'm not too upset about it.

----------


## Confuzzled

> the arm band thing isn't specific to Nazi's. Football players wear them to commemorate the loss of a player or fans.


In the context of the story, it is meant to be reminiscent of the Nazi armband. King is depicting Riddler as some kind of fascist, male entitlement dictator wannabe.

As buck said though, the whole thing is pretty goofy and some time in the future this arc in particular will be featured in one of those "You Won't Believe That Happened in Batman Comics" kind of articles.

----------


## MentalManipulator

No news yet for the Gotham City Sirens movie.

Can't wait till we get some casting announcements. 

Who would you like for Selina and Pamela?

For Catwoman my top pick would be Ruth Negga...she's classy, sleek and mysterious..and her eyes...gorgeous. My second pick would be Eva Mendes. The actress portraying her should look elegant, warm, Affleck's age and, IMO, ethnic. 

As for Poison Ivy I wanted Jessica Chastain but since she's in the X-Men movie now I would love Eva Green for the role. Ivy for me has to be sensual, intelligent and intense. Having a very pale skin and hypnotic eyes doesn't hurt either. If not her maybe Rachel Evan Wood for a younger version or Nathalie Dormer.

----------


## buck135

> No news yet for the Gotham City Sirens movie.
> 
> Can't wait till we get some casting announcements. 
> 
> Who would you like for Selina and Pamela?
> 
> For Catwoman my top pick would be Ruth Negga...she's classy, sleek and mysterious..and her eyes...gorgeous. My second pick would be Eva Mendes. The actress portraying her should look elegant, warm, Affleck's age and, IMO, ethnic. 
> 
> As for Poison Ivy I wanted Jessica Chastain but since she's in the X-Men movie now I would love Eva Green for the role. Ivy for me has to be sensual, intelligent and intense. Having a very pale skin and hypnotic eyes doesn't hurt either. If not her maybe Rachel Evan Wood for a younger version or Nathalie Dormer.


At this point, I just want to see some something from WB confirming that this project is still green lit. The fact that Shazam is the next DCEU film really annoys me. I will skip that film in the theater and on blu-ray.

As far as the casting of Ivy (if this movie ever gets made), my first choice was always Olivia Wilde. My mindset has changed though. All the actresses you mentioned have the look, but can they own the role the way Margot Robbie and Gal Gadot have? 

I disagree that the actress should be Affleck's age. In my opinion, she should be Robbie's age. It is also imperative that Harley and Ivy have chemistry. I would hope that since Robbie is invested in this character that she is involved in the casting process.

----------


## Osiris-Rex

> No news yet for the Gotham City Sirens movie.
> 
> Can't wait till we get some casting announcements. 
> 
> Who would you like for Selina and Pamela?
> 
> For Catwoman my top pick would be Ruth Negga...she's classy, sleek and mysterious..and her eyes...gorgeous. My second pick would be Eva Mendes. The actress portraying her should look elegant, warm, Affleck's age and, IMO, ethnic.


Eiza Gonzalez throwing a hint about being cast as Catwoman?

20800135_1411469542235760_4648719481296890247_n.jpg

----------


## Confuzzled

I think Eiza Gonzalez is being considered for Zatanna but not sure.




> No news yet for the Gotham City Sirens movie.
> 
> Can't wait till we get some casting announcements. 
> 
> Who would you like for Selina and Pamela?
> 
> For Catwoman my top pick would be Ruth Negga...she's classy, sleek and mysterious..and her eyes...gorgeous. My second pick would be Eva Mendes. The actress portraying her should look elegant, warm, Affleck's age and, IMO, ethnic. 
> 
> As for Poison Ivy I wanted Jessica Chastain but since she's in the X-Men movie now I would love Eva Green for the role. Ivy for me has to be sensual, intelligent and intense. Having a very pale skin and hypnotic eyes doesn't hurt either. If not her maybe Rachel Evan Wood for a younger version or Natalie Dormer.


All those are excellent choices!




> At this point, I just want to see some something from WB confirming that this project is still green lit. The fact that Shazam is the next DCEU film really annoys me. I will skip that film in the theater and on blu-ray.
> 
> As far as the casting of Ivy (if this movie ever gets made), my first choice was always Olivia Wilde. My mindset has changed though. All the actresses you mentioned have the look, but can they own the role the way Margot Robbie and Gal Gadot have? 
> 
> I disagree that the actress should be Affleck's age. In my opinion, she should be Robbie's age. It is also imperative that Harley and Ivy have chemistry. I would hope that since Robbie is invested in this character that she is involved in the casting process.


Mental Manipulator meant Catwoman should be near Affleck's age, not Ivy. I think the Ivy actress should be right in the middle of Affleck and Robbie's ages. Somebody in the Catwoman thread said that Selina should be the "oldest sister" who is the most mature and pragmatic, Ivy the rebellious and troubled middle sister, while Harley is the wild and goofy baby sister. Those dynamics seem solid to me.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> At this point, I just want to see some something from WB confirming that this project is still green lit. The fact that Shazam is the next DCEU film really annoys me. I will skip that film in the theater and on blu-ray.
> 
> As far as the casting of Ivy (if this movie ever gets made), my first choice was always Olivia Wilde. My mindset has changed though. All the actresses you mentioned have the look, but can they own the role the way Margot Robbie and Gal Gadot have? 
> 
> I disagree that the actress should be Affleck's age. In my opinion, she should be Robbie's age. It is also imperative that Harley and Ivy have chemistry. I would hope that since Robbie is invested in this character that she is involved in the casting process.


About Margot owning the role...she did own in the sense that she adapted to her own choices because that is not Harley for me. 




> I think Eiza Gonzalez is being considered for Zatanna but not sure.
> 
> 
> All those are excellent choices!
> 
> 
> 
> Mental Manipulator meant Catwoman should be near Affleck's age, not Ivy. I think the Ivy actress should be right in the middle of Affleck and Robbie's ages. Somebody in the Catwoman thread said that Selina should be the "oldest sister" who is the most mature and pragmatic, Ivy the rebellious and troubled middle sister, while Harley is the wild and goofy baby sister. Those dynamics seem solid to me.


Exactly...Catwoman closer to Batman's age and Ivy in the middle, maybe closer to Harley.

I hope Eiza is not Catwoman...I saw Baby Driver and thought she was very average...this model acting trend...and she looks to much like Gal Galdot.

----------


## buck135

> I think Eiza Gonzalez is being considered for Zatanna but not sure.
> 
> 
> 
> All those are excellent choices!
> 
> 
> 
> Mental Manipulator meant Catwoman should be near Affleck's age, not Ivy.


Bad job on my part. I skimmed his post instead of reading it. My apologies Mental Manipulator.

----------


## buck135

> About Margot owning the role...she did own in the sense that she adapted to her own choices because that is not Harley for me.


It's tough to cast these parts. I thought Margot Robbie personified the role. She was exactly how I perceive the character to look, act, talk, etc. The Ivy fan base is so divided, I'm sure DC has no idea how to proceed.

----------


## buck135

> I think Eiza Gonzalez is being considered for Zatanna but not sure.


Alexandra Daddario has to be cast as Zatanna. She's perfect for the role.

----------


## Punisher007

Eiza is too young to play Selina opposite Ben Affleck's Batman.  Her as Zatanna, or Jessica Cruz, now that I could see.

Catwoman-Ruth Negga or Gugu Mbatha-Raw.

Poison Ivy-Evan Rachel Wood or Natalie Dormer.

----------


## Frontier

I feel like Ivy and Selina should be the same or close age-wise, but I imagine they'll probably go for someone younger and closer to Harley/Robbie's age.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> Bad job on my part. I skimmed his post instead of reading it. My apologies Mental Manipulator.


No worries ;-)




> It's tough to cast these parts. I thought Margot Robbie personified the role. She was exactly how I perceive the character to look, act, talk, etc. The Ivy fan base is so divided, I'm sure DC has no idea how to proceed.


My Harley is the BTAS one. Crazy kid with a big heart. Margot's is too "sexualized".

----------


## buck135

> My Harley is the BTAS one. Crazy kid with a big heart. Margot's is too "sexualized".


I'm a huge BTAS fan, in fact that's where my love for Poison Ivy started. Remember though when principal photography for Suicide Squad began, the leaked footage showed the more unpleasant side of Harley and Joker's relationship. Everything went off the rails once that Bohemian Rhapsody trailer hit. I think the recent animated films have shown Harley to be much more sexualized than what Margot Robbie displayed.

----------


## Punisher007

Even the DCAU showed Harley's sexual side.  It's where we got the famous "wanna ride your Harley" line, or her emerging from a cake, the first hints of the Harley/Ivy ship, etc.

----------


## Confuzzled

> It's tough to cast these parts. I thought Margot Robbie personified the role. She was exactly how I perceive the character to look, act, talk, etc. The Ivy fan base is so divided, I'm sure DC has no idea how to proceed.


Among Ivy's diverse fanbase, almost everyone seems to agree about the Evan Rachel Wood/Natalie Dormer/Eva Green trio as prime candidates. There are some who push for Christina Hendricks, but I don't see it happening because she is 15 years older than Robbie.

I've seen Lady Gaga as a suggestion too. I think it would come across as a gimmick and very reminiscent of _Batman and Robin_, even though I understand she is a decent actress (but so was Thurman and while I did enjoy her campy performance, this new take should not seem like a retread of it). I think Gaga is better suited for a Wonder Woman villain like Circe.

----------


## Confuzzled

Shirahama Kamome variant cover for _Batgirl and the Birds of Prey_ #14

----------


## Confuzzled

_Batgirl and the Birds of Prey_ #16 cover by Yanick Paquette

----------


## WontonGirl

> _Batgirl and the Birds of Prey_ #16 cover by Yanick Paquette


Damn you got Gotham Girl in this too! What in the world is this issue about?

----------


## Punisher007

> _Batgirl and the Birds of Prey_ #16 cover by Yanick Paquette


Are those supposed to be tattoos covering her body?  Because they kind of look like tattoos here (but that might just be how the artist is drawing them).

Also not a huge fan of the new costume honestly.  Still it's cool to see Ivy and the BOP working together again (that was one cool idea that the New 52 had, but it was dropped way too quickly imo).

----------


## Frontier

> Shirahama Kamome variant cover for _Batgirl and the Birds of Prey_ #14


I think Ivy and Selina look much better here compared to the Paquette cover. 




> _Batgirl and the Birds of Prey_ #16 cover by Yanick Paquette


Gotham City Sirens reunion  :Cool: .

And is Paquette the only one who draws her with those tatoos...?

----------


## Confuzzled

> Damn you got Gotham Girl in this too! What in the world is this issue about?


Seems like a grander version of the Girls Night Out episode from _The New Batman Adventures_.




> Are those supposed to be tattoos covering her body?  Because they kind of look like tattoos here (but that might just be how the artist is drawing them).





> And is Paquette the only one who draws her with those tatoos...?


They aren't tattoos. Just henna-like vine "cosmetics". Clay Mann was the first to draw them in Ivy's mini.

----------


## Frontier

> Seems like a grander version of the Girls Night Out episode from _The New Batman Adventures_.


One can hope  :Wink: .




> They aren't tattoos. Just henna-like vine "cosmetics". Clay Mann was the first to draw them in Ivy's mini.
> s://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/4d/d4/ba/4dd4ba16f9efac3bcaa235385d1c41fb--poison-ivy-batman-dc-comic.jpg[/IMG]


Huh, so I guess we're now dealing with a variant on the Mann outfit, just more swimsuit-y then dress-y  :Stick Out Tongue: .

----------


## Confuzzled

> Huh, so I guess we're now dealing with a variant on the Mann outfit, just more swimsuit-y then dress-y .


Mandate for Ivy's costume in Rebirth seems to be: Draw whatever you want, either original or inspired by something that's come before. So far we've had leggings in Trinity and Batgirl, an original costume in All-Star Batman, New 52 bodysuit in Batman, and now Cycle of Life and Death variation in Birds of Prey.

Not that I'm complaining.  :Stick Out Tongue:  Trees and plants keep turning a new leaf. I actually want them to experiment some more with flowers and other colors like autumn orange.

----------


## Frontier

> Mandate for Ivy's costume in Rebirth seems to be: Draw whatever you want, either original or inspired by something that's come before. So far we've had leggings in Trinity and Batgirl, an original costume in All-Star Batman, New 52 bodysuit in Batman, and now Cycle of Life and Death variation in Birds of Prey.
> 
> Not that I'm complaining.  Trees and plants keep turning a new leaf. I actually want them to experiment some more with flowers and other colors like autumn orange.


Though Batman is doing flashbacks so it makes sense for the New 52 look to be used  :Smile: .

And we also have _DC Super Hero Girls_, _Justice League Action_, _Lego Batman_, and the recent _Batman and Harley Quinn_ movie with their own unique designs for Ivy (even though the latter was just reusing her TNBA look)  :Wink: .

----------


## Confuzzled

> Though Batman is doing flashbacks so it makes sense for the New 52 look to be used .
> 
> And we also have _DC Super Hero Girls_, _Justice League Action_, _Lego Batman_, and the recent _Batman and Harley Quinn_ movie with their own unique designs for Ivy (even though the latter was just reusing her TNBA look) .


And of course, _DC Bombshells_. That's probably where Mann got the henna vine idea from, now that I think of it.

----------


## Punisher007

> Mandate for Ivy's costume in Rebirth seems to be: Draw whatever you want, either original or inspired by something that's come before. So far we've had leggings in Trinity and Batgirl, an original costume in All-Star Batman, New 52 bodysuit in Batman, and now Cycle of Life and Death variation in Birds of Prey.
> 
> Not that I'm complaining.  Trees and plants keep turning a new leaf. I actually want them to experiment some more with flowers and other colors like autumn orange.


Eh I prefer my characters to have a set "look," with maybe tweaks here and there as needed.  Personally I really liked her New 52 look myself (and I especially like how her eyes were drawn in BOP).

Also TBH, those vines still look like tattoos even in those other pics.  Maybe it's just hard to not make them look that way on the page (as opposed to in live-action or in a cartoon).

----------


## Confuzzled

> Eh I prefer my characters to have a set "look," with maybe tweaks here and there as needed.  Personally I really liked her New 52 look myself (and I especially like how her eyes were drawn in BOP).
> 
> Also TBH, those vines still look like tattoos even in those other pics.  Maybe it's just hard to not make them look that way on the page (as opposed to in live-action or in a cartoon).


Those weren't meant to be tattoos because in the mini itself she would appear without them in some scenes, sometimes in the same issue where she had them. When she was Pamela Isley, she didn't wear them even when she was bare limbed, and they appeared only when she was on "Poison Ivy mode".

Since her costumes are made from actual leaves, vines and flowers, it would make sense that they would keep changing. The New 52 design was very dependent on the artist IMO. Artists like Jesus Saiz did a great job with it, whereas Amanda Conner makes it look very generic and bland. While her eyes in BoP were a good touch, I felt they made her look too much of an alien.

I liked the black vines on her pale face though.

----------


## Frontier

> Those weren't meant to be tattoos because in the mini itself she would appear without them in some scenes, sometimes in the same issue where she had them. When she was Pamela Isley, she didn't wear them even when she was bare limbed, and they appeared only when she was on "Poison Ivy mode".
> 
> Since her costumes are made from actual leaves, vines and flowers, it would make sense that they would keep changing. The New 52 design was very dependent on the artist IMO. Artists like Jesus Saiz did a great job with it, whereas Amanda Conner makes it look very generic and bland. While her eyes in BoP were a good touch, I felt they made her look too much of an alien.
> 
> I liked the black vines on her pale face though.


I think Janin also has a pretty good handling of the New 52 outfit (random Nazi armband aside  :Stick Out Tongue: )  :Smile: .

----------


## Confuzzled

> I think Janin also has a pretty good handling of the New 52 outfit (random Nazi armband aside ) .


I don't like it when it's colored entirely green though. Even in the New 52, I preferred the green parts being actual, well-defined leaves instead of just patches.

----------


## Punisher007

http://imgur.com/w5BYFF3

I quite liked this version of it myself.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5...2lxwo2_400.jpg

And like it said, I loved it when they drew her eyes like this.

I guess I'm just not really big on "dress/pantless" Poison Ivy personally

----------


## Frontier

I wouldn't mind her _Justice League Action_ design migrating to the comics at some point...

----------


## Atlanta96

Ahh, the eyesore that was the New 52 design. A generic black bodysuit with ugly patches of leaves over it. I know Janin ditched the black bodysuit for his version, but that somehow made it even worse. I was excited to see her classic look return, wish they'd just stick to that.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> I wouldn't mind her _Justice League Action_ design migrating to the comics at some point...


ugh...let's pray not...all the asymmetrical is so bad 90's and the beret...unforgivable. It kind of works for a kid's cartoon though. Very childish. 

I like her more classic natural look: flesh tone skin, green leaf body suit, no leggings, leafs on her head, leaf scuffs and bare foot.

The only green skin version of her I like is Jim Lee's.

----------


## Frontier

> ugh...let's pray not...all the asymmetrical is so bad 90's and the beret...unforgivable. It kind of works for a kid's cartoon though. Very childish.


Oh. I thought it was very chic, classy, and unique personally, very befitting a gal like Ivy, but that's just me  :Smile: .




> I like her more classic natural look: flesh tone skin, green leaf body suit, no leggings, leafs on her head, leaf scuffs and bare foot.


I'm all for the classic look  :Wink: .

----------


## Mistah K88

Other animated entries for kids had their way with Ivy's design...

Young Justice:


The Batman:


Batman the Brave and the Bold

----------


## buck135

Ivy is on the cover and featured in Harley Quinn #26 which was released today. She isn't on the cover of the variant however.

----------


## MentalManipulator

So apparently they are replacing the Gotham City Sirens movie with a joker and Harley movie. Gosh, the DC Cinematic Universe is a mess. They will have two different Jokers plus they are replacing a girl power movie for an abusive relationship movie.

----------


## Confuzzled

> So apparently they are replacing the Gotham City Sirens movie with a joker and Harley movie. Gosh, the DC Cinematic Universe is a mess. They will have two different Jokers plus they are replacing a girl power movie for an abusive relationship movie.


As of now, Gotham City Sirens is still planned with David Ayer attached




> _UPDATE: Deadline previously reported that the Joker and Harley Quinn film was Gotham City Sirens  meaning David Ayer was no longer set to direct the project that was to feature Robbies Harley Quinn alongside Poison Ivy and Catwoman, however, the trade has now updated their story, reporting that the Joker and Harley Quinn film and Gotham City Sirens are two separate projects and that Ayer is still attached to direct the latter._

----------


## MentalManipulator

> As of now, Gotham City Sirens is still planned with David Ayer attached


Good to hear...hope they are right.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Good to hear...hope they are right.


Now confirmed by Forbes who got in touch with WB




> _Well, you can safely ignore those stories, because I've confirmed Gotham City Sirens is still in development. Here is what I was told by a Warner insider:
> 
> Harley, Catwoman and Poison Ivy are super important to us-- And a super cool team, too!_


YAY!  :Big Grin:   :Big Grin: 

There's a slight catch. Apparently the Harley/Joker project is now rumored to be an adaptation of _Mad Love_, and Sirens is expected to come _after_ that movie. Here's what the Forbes writer muses:




> _Indeed, it's possible that Mad Love could set up the eventual breakup of Harley and the Joker, as a way to set up Harley's new independent lease on life that leads her to team up with Poison Ivy and Catwoman for Gotham City Sirens. Maybe we'll see Poison Ivy make a cameo or other sort of appearance in Mad Love, to establish her and lead into the eventual team-up.
> 
> It seems logical that, in the aftermath of Joker breaking into Belle Reve prison to help Harley escape at the end of Suicide Squad last year, the natural follow-up story would be something demonstrating the two crazed lovebirds on a crime spree of some sort, which puts Harley in a position to finally reject the abusive nature of their relationship. An inevitable breakup has to happen if Harley is to become a likable lead character in her own right, even if it's as an anti-hero with some dubious moral positions. Gotham City Sirens therefore seems to naturally follow that sort of tale nicely, leading Harley into new relationships (possibly including a romantic one with Poison Ivy) and an identity untethered to her prior unhealthy relationship with the Joker._


No word on the previous info of Ivy appearing in the _Batgirl_ movie.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> Now confirmed by Forbes who got in touch with WB
> 
> 
> 
> YAY!  
> 
> There's a slight catch. Apparently the Harley/Joker project is now rumored to be an adaptation of _Mad Love_, and Sirens is expected to come _after_ that movie. Here's what the Forbes writer muses:
> 
> 
> ...


Great to hear. Makes sense if that's the case. It will establish the Harely/Ivy relationship and then we get to Sirens. I'm ok with that. 

I think for Ivy it would be perfect if she's a villain in the Batgirl movie, establishing her as a powerful threat. Then help Harley get her power upgrade and break-up with the Joker, thus being more sympathetic for the audiences in the Mad Love movie. And finally as an anti-hero in Gotham City Sirens.

----------


## WontonGirl

> Great to hear. Makes sense if that's the case. It will establish the Harely/Ivy relationship and then we get to Sirens. I'm ok with that. 
> 
> I think for Ivy it would be perfect if she's a villain in the Batgirl movie, establishing her as a powerful threat. Then help Harley get her power upgrade and break-up with the Joker, thus being more sympathetic for the audiences in the Mad Love movie. And finally as an anti-hero in Gotham City Sirens.


As long as she stays a villain toward Batman and the heroes, I'm fine with that  :Smile:

----------


## Confuzzled

> Great to hear. Makes sense if that's the case. It will establish the Harely/Ivy relationship and then we get to Sirens. I'm ok with that. 
> 
> I think for Ivy it would be perfect if she's a villain in the Batgirl movie, establishing her as a powerful threat. Then help Harley get her power upgrade and break-up with the Joker, thus being more sympathetic for the audiences in the Mad Love movie. And finally as an anti-hero in Gotham City Sirens.


That would be great and consolidate Ivy as a prominent figure in the DCEU. Instead of Mad Love, I'd also like for her to have a part in the Batman solo in the vein of _Arkham Knight_ or her appearance in Neil Gaiman's _Black Orchid_.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> As long as she stays a villain toward Batman and the heroes, I'm fine with that


Yes...she only looks more sympathetic and heroic when paired to Harely and Seline fighting another baddie. Otherwise she's a thorn on the heroes side. 




> That would be great and consolidate Ivy as a prominent figure in the DCEU. Instead of Mad Love, I'd also like for her to have a part in the Batman solo in the vein of _Arkham Knight_ or her appearance in Neil Gaiman's _Black Orchid_.


Not instead but also. Make her a big player in the universe. Can't wait to see who they cast. We'll see by the actress they choose the kind of role they expect for her.

----------


## Red obin

I'm kind of annoyed that the new omnibus for sirens is called harley quinn and the gotham city sirens, not just gotham city sirens.

----------


## WontonGirl

> I'm kind of annoyed that the new omnibus for sirens is called harley quinn and the gotham city sirens, not just gotham city sirens.


Wow, really? Well I guess that's just because of Harley's popularity. I mean DC is still a business and they are going to try to make as much money as they can off of the fans. Usually when stuff like that happens, they are for fans that may not necessarily be comic book fans. So those mainstream fans and hardcore Harley fans.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Wow, really? Well I guess that's just because of Harley's popularity. I mean DC is still a business and they are going to try to make as much money as they can off of the fans.* Usually when stuff like that happens, they are for fans that may not necessarily be comic book fans. So those mainstream fans* and hardcore Harley fans.


Yes, it's targeted at the casual fans who watched and enjoyed _Suicide Squad_, so that's understandable, if still annoying.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## WontonGirl

> Yes, it's targeted at the casual fans who watched and enjoyed _Suicide Squad_, so that's understandable, if still annoying.


Or into cosplay and fanart and liked her from the BTAS show. Sometimes, people don't touch a comic in years and remember a character from the last place they knew them.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Or into cosplay and fanart and liked her from the BTAS show. Sometimes, people don't touch a comic in years and remember a character from the last place they knew them.


Ivy and Catwoman are very popular among all those circles too though. Both made it on the Top Halloween costumes list last year too. Ivy was in the Top 20, despite not starring in a live action movie for near 20 years.

----------


## Confuzzled

Stjepan Sejic just teased artwork of Ivy that he's saying is a part of the next issue of _Suicide Squad_.



Looks great as usual though I didn't know of this Ivy appearance lol. What arc is Squad in the middle of currently? And yup, yet another Ivy costume.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Frontier

> Stjepan Sejic just teased artwork of Ivy that he's saying is a part of the next issue of _Suicide Squad_.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks great as usual though I didn't know of this Ivy appearance lol. What arc is Squad in the middle of currently? And yup, yet another Ivy costume.


Well that's a very flamboyant outfit  :Stick Out Tongue: .

----------


## Red obin

> Stjepan Sejic just teased artwork of Ivy that he's saying is a part of the next issue of _Suicide Squad_.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks great as usual though I didn't know of this Ivy appearance lol. What arc is Squad in the middle of currently? And yup, yet another Ivy costume.


suicide squad #26 metal crossover I think. Dark multiverse Ivy?

I understand why harley would get prominence but personally (others will disagree) that catwoman is just as well known even if she sells less and poison ivy to a lesser extent.

----------


## adrikito

I never saw GOTHAM but... Ivy is in this trailer for the 4th season.. MIN 0:21.. 







> Stjepan Sejic just teased artwork of Ivy that he's saying is a part of the next issue of _Suicide Squad_.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks great as usual though I didn't know of this Ivy appearance lol. What arc is Squad in the middle of currently? And yup, yet another Ivy costume.


We saw her in Birds of Prey recently and now... another change of costume?

----------


## Confuzzled

The Hollywood Reporter gathered some BTAS alumni for its 25th anniversary including Diane Pershing who voiced Poison Ivy, who was probably most of our first exposure to the character. 

She spoke about how she decided to approach the character and why:




> _As for Poison Ivy, Pershing drew upon her experience doing commercials and found the voice after studying the script and the Ivy action figure.
> 
> "I looked at her and thought she was very sexy, so I could use my sexy voice I used on my perfume commercials. She was also doctor Pamela Isley, which means she was a Ph.D. or an actual doctor. That means she's very smart, she's very bright, she's got a really good brain," says Pershing. "So I put the two together."_


How _Harley and Ivy_ was ahead of its time in terms of depicting feminist relationships in cartoons:




> _"It was groundbreaking back then. Now they have more strong female characters on cartoons," says Pershing._


And she shared this very moving anecdote:




> _Episodes like that helped Harley and Ivy become icons for young girls who watched the show. Today at comic conventions, Pershing has met a number of women who were inspired by Ivy's strength.
> 
> "One girl came up and said she was sexually abused — and when Poison Ivy spoke up and told Harley she couldn't let any man do that to her again, it turned something in her head and she was crying when she told me," says Pershing. "I'm listening to this and I'm overwhelmed to think something I did 25 years ago had such a strong impact and I unwittingly was able to help people."_


Aw *sniff*

----------


## Confuzzled

_Harley Quinn 25th Anniversary Special_ variant cover by Warren Louw

----------


## buck135

That will be mine. Do you know the street date?

Edit: I see it will be next Wednesday. Thanks!

----------


## Frontier

> _Harley Quinn 25th Anniversary Special_ variant cover by Warren Louw


Lovely Sirens are lovely  :Big Grin: .

----------


## NaughtyJuri

I miss the real poison ivy, and not this Ivy from the Harley rebirth or her solo crap, especially her outfit is beyond Censoreship & boring to look at

I miss the Ivy who wanted to kill all humans & animals & want a world full of Green

OMG that cover now that's the poison ivy I love <3 this version is so much better

Because all she cares bout is Mother Nature & will do anything or kill anyone to do it, it's not hard to understand she even falls in love with Robin & even had the hots for batman at one point in the old comics it's just how the character is

Still wish DC didn't Bleached Harley skin it's disgusting

----------


## PwrdOn

One of the odder things you realize when reading older Poison Ivy stories is that the writer seem intent on making Batman seem "chivalrous" in a way that always comes off way more weird and creepy than they intended.  The issue is Detective #696, Ivy had been knocked out the issue before (because even chivalry has its limits) but being a hero, Batman insisted on rescuing her from the burning building, and so proceeds to carry her around unconscious in a not-bodybag the entire issue all while having his usual banter with Gordon.



On a side note, it is interesting to me how commonly fiction will show someone being hit in the head and staying out for hours on end, as if they had just fallen asleep or something.  In reality, usually this only lasts for a few seconds and if Ivy had really been out for this long she would be in some serious trouble and would likely have suffered significant brain damage.

----------


## Bukdiah

lmao totally agree about your remarks about unconsciousness. If people were really out for that long, they'd be dead lol

----------


## Bukdiah

> _Harley Quinn 25th Anniversary Special_ variant cover by Warren Louw


Harley looking like Margot Robbie in that cover. Are we..synergizing?!

----------


## Confuzzled

PwrdOn's post touched upon one of the many problems I have as Ivy being depicted as purely a Batman baddie. Some writers (unsurprisingly all male  :Stick Out Tongue: ) have a tendency to fetishize her and her dynamics with Batman, to the point where it breaks the otherwise grim and dark tone of the story or Bat title and becomes jarringly camp. Other writers who do want to maintain the grim and dark tone then get the wrong idea while reading stories like these and assume Ivy is unavoidably campy, so either treat her as a lightweight threat or entirely avoid using her in their own stories.




> Harley looking like Margot Robbie in that cover. Are we..synergizing?!


Harley got the Margot Robbie make-over in her own title even before the film had come out and the look was catching on through trailers  :Stick Out Tongue:  The blonde hair with blue and pink highlighted ends though is a much better look then the completely dual tone red/black or red/blue hair she was sporting before Robbie's look had been revealed, so I have no problem with that bit of synergizing.

----------


## NaughtyJuri

So far I think Arkham games, & mid 2000's of poison ivy version is the best

----------


## Bukdiah

> Harley got the Margot Robbie make-over in her own title even before the film had come out and the look was catching on through trailers  The blonde hair with blue and pink highlighted ends though is a much better look then the completely dual tone red/black or red/blue hair she was sporting before Robbie's look had been revealed, so I have no problem with that bit of synergizing.


Ah, yeah, I was reading Harley Quinn when they introduced those pig tail highlights. I know the look isn't "new" per say, but I was talking more of her face. She really does look like Margot. Not that there's anything wrong with that lol

----------


## PwrdOn

> Ah, yeah, I was reading Harley Quinn when they introduced those pig tail highlights. I know the look isn't "new" per say, but I was talking more of her face. She really does look like Margot. Not that there's anything wrong with that lol


It works because Margot Robbie was really the perfect casting for Harley because she just looks like a lunatic with those huge eyes and crazy smile.

----------


## Confuzzled

> It works because Margot Robbie was really the perfect casting for Harley because she just looks like a lunatic with those huge eyes and crazy smile.


She's getting great reviews for her performance as the similarly wacky and dangerous Tonya Harding as well. Looks like they really hit the bullseye with casting her as HQ. Hopefully they find an actress who perfectly embodies Ivy like the way Robbie does Harley.

----------


## Bukdiah

> She's getting great reviews for her performance as the similarly wacky and dangerous Tonya Harding as well. Looks like they really hit the bullseye with casting her as HQ. Hopefully they find an actress who perfectly embodies Ivy like the way Robbie does Harley.


One of the craziest sports stories of our time. I remember watching an ESPN 30 for 30 about Harding a while back. I'm not into figure skating at all, but with Robbie as Harding, it does have me curious.

----------


## PwrdOn

On a more positive note, in my mind perhaps the best depiction of the relationship between Batman and Ivy could be found in the Poison Ivy one shot from 1997.  The story did a great job portraying Ivy sympathetically while keeping her vicious streak intact, and Batman doesn't come off as a lust addled bro.  While he may disapprove of Ivy's methods, he recognizes that she's being pursued by a much more dangerous foe and feels a duty to protect and assist her.  In a way the whole story has a bit of James Bond feel to it, although Ivy is a bit more effective in action than your typical inept Bond girl.

----------


## Frontier

> On a more positive note, in my mind perhaps the best depiction of the relationship between Batman and Ivy could be found in the Poison Ivy one shot from 1997.  The story did a great job portraying Ivy sympathetically while keeping her vicious streak intact, and Batman doesn't come off as a lust addled bro.  While he may disapprove of Ivy's methods, he recognizes that she's being pursued by a much more dangerous foe and feels a duty to protect and assist her.  In a way the whole story has a bit of James Bond feel to it, although Ivy is a bit more effective in action than your typical inept Bond girl.


I read this in the Poison Ivy Arkham trade. Interesting stuff and a pretty good depiction of Ivy  :Smile: .

----------


## WontonGirl

> On a more positive note, in my mind perhaps the best depiction of the relationship between Batman and Ivy could be found in the Poison Ivy one shot from 1997.  The story did a great job portraying Ivy sympathetically while keeping her vicious streak intact, and Batman doesn't come off as a lust addled bro.  While he may disapprove of Ivy's methods, he recognizes that she's being pursued by a much more dangerous foe and feels a duty to protect and assist her.  In a way the whole story has a bit of James Bond feel to it, although Ivy is a bit more effective in action than your typical inept Bond girl.


Yeah I just read this story not too long ago. I mean he is willing to protect her because he's a good guy but I mean, Batman is like that. He will protect even the villains from getting killed so it doesn't surprised me that he did this.

----------


## Confuzzled

That's a great story and one of the major turning points for a shift in Ivy's characterisation. Also, Brian Apthorp is one of my favorite Ivy artists ever. Loved his depiction of her in Batman Year 3 as well.

----------


## buck135

> _Harley Quinn 25th Anniversary Special_ variant cover by Warren Louw


I'm bummed that this variant isn't sold in stores. The cheapest I saw it for online was $30 which is too high for me. The A, B and C covers really aren't very good in my opinion.

----------


## buck135

I picked up the variant for Batgirl and the Birds of Prey #14 which features Ivy on the cover. I felt bad because seconds after grabbing the only copy, another guy went to snag one. I offered it to him, but he politely declined. 

I also picked up the Harley Quinn 25th Anniversary Special covers A and C, both which have Ivy on the cover, though not predominantly.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I picked up the variant for Batgirl and the Birds of Prey*#14 which features Ivy on the cover. I felt bad because seconds after grabbing the only copy, another guy went to snag one. I offered it to him, but he politely declined. 
> 
> I also picked up the Harley Quinn 25th Anniversary Special*covers A and C, both which have Ivy on the cover, though not predominantly.


It was so classy of you to offer him the book, buck. When I reached my own LCS, it had already sold out. Looks like LCS's have been underordering it.  :Frown:  Oh well, digital it is.

----------


## Confuzzled

On a brighter note, XM Studios unveiled this exquisite Ivy figure in their _Knight of the Rising Sun_ line (with changeable parts I presume):

----------


## Confuzzled

More pics:

----------


## buck135

> It was so classy of you to offer him the book, buck. When I reached my own LCS, it had already sold out. Looks like LCS's have been underordering it.  Oh well, digital it is.


Thanks Confuzzled. I really felt bad! Sorry you missed out on it. My LCS definitely doesn't order many B&BOP. The local demand just isn't there. Maybe that will change now that Ivy is a regular. I love those statues. Exquisite.

----------


## MentalManipulator

Just got my DC Collectibles Rogues Gallery set. 

Ivy look better in person then in the picures. I'll still try and giver her eyes more expression with some paint. I'll post pictures when I do.

Edit: her pictures before I "correct" her eyes. 
IMG_7203.jpg
IMG_7204.jpg
IMG_7205.jpg

----------


## darkeyes

That XM Studios Ivy turned out gorgeous, I will be picking one up but she will probably run around $1200 give or take depending on shipping.   And then there will be the 1/3 Prime 1 statue coming next year.   My wallet says ouch.

----------


## MentalManipulator

Here is Ivy with a make up job. I tried to make her look more expressive, more sexy and more evil. She looked too much like a child for me. 

I'm not a costumer but I'm super happy with the results considering my skills. Hope you like it. 

IMG_7208.jpg
IMG_7209.jpg
IMG_7210.jpg

Edit: why do my pictures appear laid down? They're fine on my computer.

----------


## PwrdOn

> Yeah I just read this story not too long ago. I mean he is willing to protect her because he's a good guy but I mean, Batman is like that. He will protect even the villains from getting killed so it doesn't surprised me that he did this.


As noted before, that whole "heroic" impulse of Batman's can come off a little weird, but it works best when he and Ivy are interacting directly and he gives just a hint that, seduction powers aside, he does genuinely care about her to some degree.  It also makes for some nice dramatic covers:

----------


## KrustyKid

> More pics:


Those are too awesome

----------


## buck135

> Here is Ivy with a make up job. I tried to make her look more expressive, more sexy and more evil. She looked too much like a child for me. 
> 
> I'm not a costumer but I'm super happy with the results considering my skills. Hope you like it. 
> 
> IMG_7208.jpg
> IMG_7209.jpg
> IMG_7210.jpg
> 
> Edit: why do my pictures appear laid down? They're fine on my computer.


Great job!

----------


## WontonGirl

> As noted before, that whole "heroic" impulse of Batman's can come off a little weird, but it works best when he and Ivy are interacting directly and he gives just a hint that, seduction powers aside, he does genuinely care about her to some degree.  It also makes for some nice dramatic covers:


I don't think he's thinks cares about her _that_ much or really finds her extremely evil. But he doesn't trust her. These two will never be friends. 

But again, he would protect her against more evil foes or some kind of fall. He would protect really just about any female. I mean he is chivalrous like that. Shoot he would protect Lady Shiva probably.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> Great job!


Thank you. :-)

----------


## vitaminbee

Some Harley & Ivy with Betty & Veronica art by Adam Hughes.

----------


## Frontier

> Some Harley & Ivy with Betty & Veronica art by Adam Hughes.


What a line-up of women  :Wink: .

(Though I wouldn't be surprised if all four of them do end up behind bars at some point in this mini). 

Interesting look for Ivy...

----------


## Confuzzled

Adam Hughes must be into big hair Ivy with leaves entwined in them

----------


## Confuzzled

Jimmy Palmiotti teased this ominous cover for _Harley Quinn #33_ with yet another new Ivy costume



At the rate Pam is going through costume changes in Rebirth, she's giving Classic Wasp a run for her money.  :Big Grin:

----------


## Frontier

> Jimmy Palmiotti teased this ominous cover for _Harley Quinn #33_ with yet another new Ivy costume
> 
> 
> 
> At the rate Pam is going through costume changes in Rebirth, she's giving Classic Wasp a run for her money.


Ooh, I really like this one  :Embarrassment: .

We should start a catalogue of all these different Rebirth costumes...

----------


## MentalManipulator

> Jimmy Palmiotti teased this ominous cover for _Harley Quinn #33_ with yet another new Ivy costume
> 
> 
> 
> At the rate Pam is going through costume changes in Rebirth, she's giving Classic Wasp a run for her money.


I don't mind the costume changes. Her costume is supposed to be a living construct of leaves and all right? It seems fitted that it changes with her mood. Plus: She's always very recognizable despite the variations in the costume. Red hear with green leafy costume? Ivy it is!

----------


## Confuzzled

> I don't mind the costume changes. Her costume is supposed to be a living construct of leaves and all right? It seems fitted that it changes with her mood. Plus: She's always very recognizable despite the variations in the costume. *Red hear with green leafy costume?* Ivy it is!


Yeah, it's so cool that she has become so recognisable through such a simple yet incredibly appealing combo of visuals. Really unique for a comic book character and the main reason she continues being so popular among cosplayers and artists.

----------


## Frontier

> I don't mind the costume changes. *Her costume is supposed to be a living construct of leaves and all right*? It seems fitted that it changes with her mood. Plus: She's always very recognizable despite the variations in the costume. Red hear with green leafy costume? Ivy it is!


This makes me want to know whether Ivy makes her costumes wholesale from nature or just buys a lot of spandex  :Stick Out Tongue: ?

----------


## Confuzzled

> This makes me want to know whether Ivy makes her costumes wholesale from nature or just buys a lot of spandex ?


The pukey plant t-rex from _Injustice 2_ is her costume designer and personal seamster. The daisy from _DC Superhero Girls_ is her make-up and hairstylist. Know your DC mythology man.

----------


## dietrich

> What a line-up of women .
> 
> (Though I wouldn't be surprised if all four of them do end up behind bars at some point in this mini). 
> 
> Interesting look for Ivy...


Love the look. The messy mass of curls is perfection.

----------


## dietrich

> Some Harley & Ivy with Betty & Veronica art by Adam Hughes.


JESUS!!!! Ivy is without a doubt the hottest woman in the DCU

----------


## Confuzzled

Stjepan Sejic's cover for _Suicide Squad #26_ (Dark Knights: Metal tie-in)



So it looks like the Squad will be taking on Ivy, who seems to be using the reality altering card given to her by the Batman Who Laughs to create her own fantasy realm. The preview teases her:

----------


## Frontier

I guess it's fitting Ivy would be the villain of the SS tie-in given Harley's basically the lead of that book now.

Also, Sejic Draws a stunning Ivy  :Embarrassment: .

----------


## buck135

Grace Randolph points out the potential for Poison Ivy in the DCEU in her review of the Annihilation trailer. 

https://youtu.be/ZP6fA-0vSvs

Skip to the 3:22 mark if you want to get right to it.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Grace Randolph points out the potential for Poison Ivy in the DCEU in her review of the Annihilation trailer. 
> 
> https://youtu.be/ZP6fA-0vSvs
> 
> Skip to the 3:22 mark if you want to get right to it.


That movie looks interesting. She's right, the sky's the limit if DC dives right into exploring Poison Ivy.

Btw I just came across this fun interview Diane Pershing did at a con in February.




She says she will be at Los Angeles Comic Con in late October.

----------


## buck135

> That movie looks interesting. She's right, the sky's the limit if DC dives right into exploring Poison Ivy.
> 
> Btw I just came across this fun interview Diane Pershing did at a con in February.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She says she will be at Los Angeles Comic Con in late October.


That was great. I'd love the opportunity to meet her at a convention one day.

----------


## Confuzzled

Ivy finally went fantastical on _Gotham_. And it looks like her appearance may be inspired from the New 52 with the entirely black alien-esque eyes.

----------


## Frontier

> Ivy finally went fantastical on _Gotham_. And it looks like her appearance may be inspired from the New 52 with the entirely black alien-esque eyes.


I have had such a hard time taking this version of Ivy seriously that I'm not sure if any amount of transformations is going to change that. 

They can give her plant powers or even a costume, but it's still not going to change the skeeviness of the age-shift or the issues with her personality.

----------


## darkeyes

I am not sure what to think about how they handled Ivy on the last Gotham.  They could have developed her throughout the show, had her use her knowledge to mutate plants and such.  I feel like it was a bit of a cheat to just drink potions and transform, plus a bit out of character, not what a smart person would do.  When she was young Ivy, she felt more like an intelligent scientist than the current Ivy.   If there is a silver lining, hopefully this means they plan to use her more in the series.

----------


## Frontier

> I am not sure what to think about how they handled Ivy on the last Gotham.  They could have developed her throughout the show, had her use her knowledge to mutate plants and such.  I feel like it was a bit of a cheat to just drink potions and transform, plus a bit out of character, not what a smart person would do.  When she was young Ivy, she felt more like an intelligent scientist than the current Ivy.   If there is a silver lining, hopefully this means they plan to use her more in the series.


Honestly, her intelligence level seems to have taken a nosedive after she got aged up. 

I guess it's partially because they want to emphasize that she's really still a kid, but they have her acting as bumbling and ditzy as Harley sometimes.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I am not sure what to think about how they handled Ivy on the last Gotham.  They could have developed her throughout the show, had her use her knowledge to mutate plants and such.  I feel like it was a bit of a cheat to just drink potions and transform, plus a bit out of character, not what a smart person would do.  When she was young Ivy, she felt more like an intelligent scientist than the current Ivy.   If there is a silver lining, hopefully this means they plan to use her more in the series.


Powers via ancient potions is reminiscent of her original "Lillian Rose" origin by Gerry Conway in the 70's, where it was through ancient Egyptian herbs. This show always races through its character development like it thinks every season is its last so I wasn't very surprised by Ivy's sudden transformation.

I think they are setting her up to join Barbara/Harley Lite and Selina as the proto-Sirens, with Ivy and Babs taking out Tabitha from the equation. At the least, I see Barbara/Ivy forming a Harley & Ivy-esque partnership.

----------


## Frontier

> Powers via ancient potions is reminiscent of her original "Lillian Rose" origin by Gerry Conway in the 70's, where it was through ancient Egyptian herbs. This show always races through its character development like it thinks every season is its last so I wasn't very surprised by Ivy's sudden transformation.
> 
> I think they are setting her up to join Barbara/Harley Lite and Selina as the proto-Sirens, with Ivy and Babs taking out Tabitha from the equation. *At the least, I see Barbara/Ivy forming a Harley & Ivy-esque partnership*.


Maybe with the character dynamics reversed  :Stick Out Tongue: .

----------


## Confuzzled

> Maybe with the character dynamics reversed .


Yeah, slightly like from _The Batman_ verse, where Ivy was the impulsive teen whom older Harley referred to as "kid"

----------


## Confuzzled

_Harley and Ivy meet Betty and Veronica #1_ preview pages featuring Ivy and Harley. See the rest of the preview here.




This story makes me wish for the very first time that _Gotham_ was on the CW. I'd be completely down for Ivy crossing over with _Riverdale_ in this way.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## buck135

Ivy does look great in this series. Wednesday is going to be pricey. Ivy is in:

Batman #32 (I assume).
Harley and Ivy Meet Betty and Veronica #1 (On the cover of the main issue and variant).
Harley #29 (On the cover of the main issue).
Injustice 2 #11 (On the cover of the main issue).

----------


## Frontier

> _Harley and Ivy meet Betty and Veronica #1_ preview pages featuring Ivy and Harley. See the rest of the preview here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This story makes me wish for the very first time that _Gotham_ was on the CW. I'd be completely down for Ivy crossing over with _Riverdale_ in this way.


Looks fun. 

Ivy's pheromones probably does save her a lot of money on hencheman (and in general)...

----------


## Confuzzled

I've almost stopped posting commissions and fan art in this thread but damn, this #Inktober sketch by Chris Samnee had to be shared! 



It's such a perfect distillation of Poison Ivy. So simple, and yet so intoxicating and sophisticated.

----------


## buck135

> I've almost stopped posting commissions and fan art in this thread but damn, this #Inktober sketch by Chris Samnee had to be shared! 
> 
> 
> 
> It's such a perfect distillation of Poison Ivy. So simple, and yet so intoxicating and sophisticated.


That...is awesome.

----------


## buck135

Ivy is not in Batman #32 for those of you who are wondering. It is however the conclusion of the Jokes & Riddles storyline, and Catwoman responds to Batman's marriage proposal.

----------


## buck135

Ivy is on the cover (main issue only) and featured in Batgirl and the Birds of Prey #15. Picked it up today.

----------


## Confuzzled

Read it. A pretty enjoyable issue and the plot is reminiscent of the second season of the _Gotham Girls_ webseries, which is good.  :Stick Out Tongue: 

I knew they would suspect Ivy of being the culprit lol. Liked Pam saying humanity doesn't need her help to destroy themselves. That kind of cavalier attitude suits her far more than raging hatred for mankind.

Also don't get what's Batwoman's beef with the Birds working with the Sirens. She's working with Clayface herself, isn't she?  :Confused:

----------


## buck135

> Read it. A pretty enjoyable issue and the plot is reminiscent of the second season of the _Gotham Girls_ webseries, which is good. 
> 
> I knew they would suspect Ivy of being the culprit lol. Liked Pam saying humanity doesn't need her help to destroy themselves. That kind of cavalier attitude suits her far more than raging hatred for mankind.
> 
> Also don't get what's Batwoman's beef with the Birds working with the Sirens. She's working with Clayface herself, isn't she?


It is a good issue. I've appreciate the story more than the artwork. The series still isn't a big seller at my local shop. There were four copies including one variant which I also purchased despite Ivy's absence (I was the first person there when they opened).

----------


## Caivu

> Also don't get what's Batwoman's beef with the Birds working with the Sirens. She's working with Clayface herself, isn't she?


Easy. She knows Clayface has reformed. She doesn't know any of the Sirens at all (Catwoman vaguely at best). She also might not know that Ivy and Catwoman have been working with the Birds recently.

----------


## Confuzzled

Unfortunately Ivy won't reappear until later on in this season of _Gotham_, but when she does, she will be a major player with some of her plant powers:

http://comicbook.com/dc/2017/10/13/g...turn-season-4/

----------


## MentalManipulator

> Unfortunately Ivy won't reappear until later on in this season of _Gotham_, but when she does, she will be a major player with some of her plant powers:
> 
> http://comicbook.com/dc/2017/10/13/g...turn-season-4/


cool. maybe I'll check this when she does then. for the moment I tried to like this series but I'm not a fan of kid Batman and proto-villains.

----------


## Frontier

> Unfortunately Ivy won't reappear until later on in this season of _Gotham_, but when she does, she will be a major player with some of her plant powers:
> 
> http://comicbook.com/dc/2017/10/13/g...turn-season-4/


Will she start acting like Poison Ivy then  :Stick Out Tongue: ?

----------


## buck135

> cool. maybe I'll check this when she does then. for the moment I tried to like this series but I'm not a fan of kid Batman and proto-villains.


I agree with your sentiments exactly. I enjoyed the couple of minutes Maggie Geha had, but it hasn't helped my overall opinion of the show.

----------


## Confuzzled

The Halloween edition of CBR's _The Line It is Drawn_ had a horror movie/comic book mashup theme, and here's Poison Ivy in Little Shop of Horrors by Axel Medellin:

----------


## Frontier

Poison Ivy has been recast _once again_ in _Gotham_, and will now be played by Peyton List (_The Flash_, _The Tomorrow People_).

----------


## Confuzzled

Yikes, this role seems to be cursed for whichever poor actress is cast. They keep getting replaced. Maggie, like Claire before her, was so enthusiastic about the character, even more so, that it is even more sad to see her leave. I wonder why, as this time there is no in story, aging reason.

Also, I've been aware of Peyton List since she was a child in stuff like _Diary of the Wimpy Kid: Dog Days_ so watching her now play an adult, more comics accurate Poison Ivy is... not going to be weird and creepy at all.  :EEK!: 

Edit: Apparently, there are _two different actresses_ named Peyton List (how is that even possible, isn't the Actors' Guild supposed to prevent such a thing from happening and make one or the other use another working name in a case like this?). This is the one who was cast as Ivy:



This Disney Channel star is the one I was thinking of:



Okay, that makes sense, even if it's as confusing and unusual as the situation with _Gotham_ Ivy. So I guess this casting is a perfect match.

----------


## Frontier

All this constant recasting just speaks to me that the showrunners have no idea what they want to do with Ivy because they keep having to recast every time they try to change the character to, supposedly, be truer to the comics.

----------


## Confuzzled

> All this constant recasting just speaks to me that the showrunners have no idea what they want to do with Ivy because they keep having to recast every time they try to change the character to, supposedly, be truer to the comics.


Yeah, they started out with a kid which clearly showed they wanted her to be a contemporary to Bruce and Selina initially. Then they changed their mind and wanted to introduce the adult seductress version, but the backlash must have given them pause so they went with the "little girl in adult woman's body" angle, which Maggie Geha was a pro at playing.

Now, it looks like they want to return to the seductive version (and maybe they want her to be more ethereally beautiful and powerful as well), hence recasting Geha with a "sexier", more supermodel-eque looking actress. The entire thing is just wacky, just like the weird use of the name "Ivy Pepper" instead of simply Pamela Isley.

----------


## Confuzzled

Having said that, the new actress looks like she's Stjepan Sejic's interpretation of Poison Ivy come to life (provided they give her red hair too of course). So there's that.

----------


## Frontier

She definitely looks the part (hair aside), and can probably play it as well, I just can't help but see how much this show struggles with getting Ivy right.

----------


## DR14

> She definitely looks the part (hair aside), and can probably play it as well, I just can't help but see how much this show struggles with getting Ivy right.


I really like the show but the writers tend to struggle with the female characters.  Ivy is the most glaring example.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> Having said that, the new actress looks like she's Stjepan Sejic's interpretation of Poison Ivy come to life (provided they give her red hair too of course). So there's that.


She is gorgeous! Hope she can act too. Curious to see thought on how they will address yet another change in actress. 

On other news Ivy looks to be apart of the new Batman the Brave and the Bold and Scooby Doo movie:
https://www.cbr.com/batman-scooby-doo-team-up/

----------


## Child of the Atom

The Gotham show is just trolling its audience at this point. Its pretty obvious they want to recast Selena and Bruce to older actors so badly, but they fear fan backlash.. lol

----------


## Confuzzled

> She is gorgeous! Hope she can act too. Curious to see thought on how they will address yet another change in actress.


They'll probably just pretend it's a result of the Chinese potions fuelled transformation.  :Stick Out Tongue:  I also wonder if part of the reason for this second recasting was because Maggie Geha, whose strong point was playing to the comedy aspect of the little girl with a grown-up body concept, wasn't the best fit for a more seductive and sinister take on Poison Ivy. 




> On other news Ivy looks to be apart of the new Batman the Brave and the Bold and Scooby Doo movie:
> https://www.cbr.com/batman-scooby-doo-team-up/


YAY, my two favorite cartoon redheads from childhood sharing screen space! The BatB design was also my favorite other media Ivy design outside of her iconic original BTAS look, so it's great to see that again.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> They'll probably just pretend it's a result of the Chinese potions fuelled transformation.  I also wonder if part of the reason for this second recasting was because Maggie Geha, whose strong point was playing to the comedy aspect of the little girl with a grown-up body concept, wasn't the best fit for a more seductive and sinister take on Poison Ivy. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YAY, my two favorite cartoon redheads from childhood sharing screen space! The BatB design was also my favorite other media Ivy design outside of her iconic original BTAS look, so it's great to see that again.


I'm pretty sure that's the reason. They want her to me more dangerous and sexy and Maggie was to goofy and sweet.

They were also my two favourites! Hope Daphne and Pam interact.

----------


## Frontier

> I'm pretty sure that's the reason. *They want her to me more dangerous and sexy and Maggie was to goofy and sweet.*
> 
> They were also my two favourites! Hope Daphne and Pam interact.


Too be fair that was less on Maggie and more on the writing once they realized they were sexing up someone who was mentally a child and then doubled-down on making her act her age and less like Poison Ivy.

----------


## GamerSlyRatchet

> Too be fair that was less on Maggie and more on the writing once they realized they were sexing up someone who was mentally a child and then doubled-down on making her act her age and less like Poison Ivy.


Yup. In fact, Maggie originally auditioned as the traditional, seductive, dangerous version we're more familiar with.

----------


## juan678



----------


## WeirdSpider

My favorite version of Poison Ivy is the teenage version from "The Batman" cartoon. It was such a refreshing take on the character.

----------


## MentalManipulator

I really liked it too as an alternate version of her. But I'm a grown up sexy Ivy fan myself.

----------


## Frontier

I think _The Batman_ version was a fun and interesting take for what it was, and certainly got the character better then _Gotham_ did, but I wouldn't say it's my ideal version of Ivy compared to B:TAS or her other depictions.

----------


## WontonGirl

> The Gotham show is just trolling its audience at this point. Its pretty obvious they want to recast Selena and Bruce to older actors so badly, but they fear fan backlash.. lol


Yup, I said that too. In fact I had been saying this since the middle of Season 3.

----------


## GamerSlyRatchet

I liked Poison Ivy in that show just fine, but they didn't really do much with her, or her friendship with Barbara. After the two-parter and one other episode, she was just either a cameo or Lex Luthor's plot device. One reason I really like _The Batman Strikes!_ (the comic tie-in to the show) is because it focused on other villains that the show treated as one-shot, and didn't overuse Joker and Penguin. They even had an Ivy/Harley team-up!

Also, I thought (or at least, kid-me that grew up on the show) she was cuter as Pamela than as Ivy.

----------


## Frontier

> I liked Poison Ivy in that show just fine, but they didn't really do much with her, or her friendship with Barbara. After the two-parter and one other episode, she was just either a cameo or Lex Luthor's plot device. One reason I really like _The Batman Strikes!_ (the comic tie-in to the show) is because it focused on other villains that the show treated as one-shot, and didn't overuse Joker and Penguin. They even had an Ivy/Harley team-up!


That was a fun issue  :Smile: .

It was kind of weird that they never really did much with her past friendship with Batgirl, but, as you say, that probably would have required Ivy appearing more. 



> Also, I thought (or at least, kid-me that grew up on the show) she was cuter as Pamela than as Ivy.


It was the glasses, wasn't it  :Wink: ?

----------


## GamerSlyRatchet

> It was kind of weird that they never really did much with her past friendship with Batgirl, but, as you say, that probably would have required Ivy appearing more.


Yeah. It would've made a good parallel to the Bruce/Ethan relationship, but no, we gotta get more Joker and Penguin episodes instead. 




> It was the glasses, wasn't it ?


Along with the lack of the dumb hairdo, yes.

----------


## WeirdSpider

> I liked Poison Ivy in that show just fine, but they didn't really do much with her, or her friendship with Barbara. After the two-parter and one other episode, she was just either a cameo or Lex Luthor's plot device. One reason I really like _The Batman Strikes!_ (the comic tie-in to the show) is because it focused on other villains that the show treated as one-shot, and didn't overuse Joker and Penguin. They even had an Ivy/Harley team-up!


I loved "The Batman Strikes" comic.

As I said before I like teenage Poison Ivy, and feel that it was a refreshing new take on the character.
I haven't been happy with the main canon take on Poison Ivy in a long time especially since nowadays it feels like the character has been reduced to just being Harley's "Gal Pal".

----------


## Frontier

> As I said before I like teenage Poison Ivy, and feel that it was a refreshing new take on the character.
> I haven't been happy with the main canon take on Poison Ivy in a long time especially since nowadays it feels like the character has been reduced to just being Harley's "Gal Pal".


I think that's pretty much just relegated to Harley's book. 

It's not really a factor in her other, canon, appearances, especially since she isn't with Harley in them.

----------


## Frontier

Ivy stars in a new _Justice League Action_ webisode:

----------


## darkeyes

Nice, thanks for posting that.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> Ivy stars in a new _Justice League Action_ webisode:


Thanks for sharing. That was simple yet fun. I like her characterisation in this but still think the beret looks way to silly.

----------


## Frontier

> Thanks for sharing. That was simple yet fun. I like her characterisation in this but still the beret looks way to silly.


I like how she apparently has her own green motorcycle helmet (unless that's what Robin usually wears)  :Stick Out Tongue: .

----------


## Confuzzled

> Ivy stars in a new _Justice League Action_ webisode:


Lol best one yet. Love her cute little helmet as well.

----------


## Confuzzled

Damn is this Ivy getting horrifically butchered in the first scene of this new _Gotham by Gaslight_ trailer?  :Frown: 




I will still buy the movie and I expected as much when it was revealed that Pam was going to be featured in the film but it is saddening all the same.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> Damn is this Ivy getting horrifically butchered in the first scene of this new _Gotham by Gaslight_ trailer? 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will still buy the movie and I expected as much when it was revealed that Pam was going to be featured in the film but it is saddening all the same.


It's sad indeed. I hope she's not the first victim though so she can have a little screen time at least.

----------


## WontonGirl

> Damn is this Ivy getting horrifically butchered in the first scene of this new _Gotham by Gaslight_ trailer? 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will still buy the movie and I expected as much when it was revealed that Pam was going to be featured in the film but it is saddening all the same.


Probably. Keep in mind, all of the Gotham characters are playing "characters" in the movie. So it's not Poison Ivy persay. More like she might be a prostitute named "Pam" in the movie. I liked the other trailer better because it showed all of the gotham characters and what role they will play.

----------


## buck135

> Probably. Keep in mind, all of the Gotham characters are playing "characters" in the movie. So it's not Poison Ivy persay. More like she might be a prostitute named "Pam" in the movie. I liked the other trailer better because it showed all of the gotham characters and what role they will play.


Good thing. The Ripper would be plant food and the entire run time would be about five minutes with credits. Hell, Batman wouldn't even have needed to suit up. I really love this character. I can't wait for someone with some imagination to write for her again.

----------


## WontonGirl

> Good thing. The Ripper would be plant food and the entire run time would be about five minutes with credits. Hell, Batman wouldn't even have needed to suit up. I really love this character. I can't wait for someone with some imagination to write for her again.


Yeah in the trailer, it looks like she is a show dancer, "Ivy, the Plant Lady". None of the characters would have any special powers or skills. Or I should say the characters are altered. Like, Jason, Tim and "Dickie" are little street punks trying to rob people. So it's not Poison Ivy. She's not going to have any control over plants. 

I think with characters like Ivy, you just need a writer who is going to write Batman rogues in his/her title. That way you can see her more. Lay off the "Harley's special friend" angle and get her back to be one of the best rogues in comics  :Wink:

----------


## buck135

> I think with characters like Ivy, you just need a writer who is going to write Batman rogues in his/her title. That way you can see her more. Lay off the "Harley's special friend" angle and get her back to be one of the best rogues in comics


Beautifully put.  :Smile:

----------


## Confuzzled

Amy Chu confirmed that the subplot with the Winston character who kept harassing Pam at work in the _Cycle of Life and Death_ was inspired by DC making Eddie Berganza the editor of the mini. Sites are picking up the news:

http://womenwriteaboutcomics.com/201...ddie-berganza/

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/11...n-ivy-amy-chu/

https://www.themarysue.com/amy-chu-poison-ivy-berganza/

Kind of explains why Chu wasn't invited back for the follow-up despite the mini doing solid business, especially in TPB sales. This is _Women Write About Comics_ observation after consulting Dan Didio:




> _During some personal Facebook conversations with Dan DiDio he told me that DC was pleased with how the mini sold and that after the mini a new book would likely be published. Indeed, with very little to no promotion, Amy Chus mini sold quite well compared to other similar books. Let’s take as an example ComicChron’s sales estimates for February 2016. Poison Ivy sold 23,452 copies. In comparison Batgirl sold 25,625, Suicide Squad (despite receiving huge promotion because of the movie) 23,687, Teen Titans 23,566, Aquaman 23,546. Also Red Hood, Green Arrow, DC Bombshells, Gotham Academy, Injustice, and more sold significantly less than Poison Ivy and most of them got renewed for Rebirth or got a second chance at a mini, digital titles etc, or got expanded as franchises. Another example is Omega Men, written by Tom King, had a chance at a 12 issue run despite having half Amy Chu’s sales. And King ended up getting the main Batman book.
> 
> Amy Chu never got a chance to finish her story that ends on a cliffhanger. In fact since then she only got to write one Wonder Woman story for DC._

----------


## buck135

> Amy Chu confirmed that the subplot with the Winston character who kept harassing Pam at work in the _Cycle of Life and Death_ was inspired by DC making Eddie Berganza the editor of the mini.


What an awful story. I hate that this type of harassment exists and apparently is common. I wish Ms. Chu continued success.

----------


## Frontier

> Amy Chu confirmed that the subplot with the Winston character who kept harassing Pam at work in the _Cycle of Life and Death_ was inspired by DC making Eddie Berganza the editor of the mini. Sites are picking up the news:
> 
> http://womenwriteaboutcomics.com/201...ddie-berganza/
> 
> https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/11...n-ivy-amy-chu/
> 
> https://www.themarysue.com/amy-chu-poison-ivy-berganza/
> 
> Kind of explains why Chu wasn't invited back for the follow-up despite the mini doing solid business, especially in TPB sales. This is _Women Write About Comics_ observation after consulting Dan Didio:


Interesting, but not surprising. It seems like Berganza's status was an open secret at the DC offices.  

A shame it seems to have prevented Chu from continuing her work with Ivy  :Frown: .

----------


## WontonGirl

Was Amy up for having a Rebirth Poison Ivy book? 

And was she in line to write Batman title?

----------


## Confuzzled

> Was Amy up for having a Rebirth Poison Ivy book?


Dan Didio had told some people online, including the writer of the Chu interview, that they were considering a sequel to the Poison Ivy mini at the very least because they were very happy with its sales. I think he had told someone (Donna Dickens I think, not sure but I think I had linked it in this thread some months back) that if Cycle of Life and Death did anywhere near Steve Orlando's Midnighter mini in terms of TPB sales, then a follow-up was almost guaranteed (Midnighter led to the Apollo & Midnighter follow-up). Cycle _more than doubled_ Midnighter's sales TPB wise but then, there was silence on DC's part regarding the news of any follow-up.

Also compare it to Marv Wolfman's Raven mini, which sold lower than Cycle of Life and Death, but still got its follow-up.

----------


## Frontier

Thanks a lot Berganza/Didio  :Mad: .

----------


## Confuzzled

> Thanks a lot Berganza/Didio .


In February, Amy Chu had revealed her core idea for the next arc: https://twitter.com/AmyChu/status/834782604553486337

I can't believe we are missing out on an epic adventure arc featuring Ivy in the Arctic making her own Eden meets Fortress of Solitude!  :Mad:  

And I want to see more of the Sporelings. I think they have the potential to be even more popular than Emma Frost's Stepford Cuckoos.

----------


## sakuyamons

Ivy's meant to appear in Batman in February...a bit uncertain how King will approach her.

----------


## WontonGirl

This is the description: 

BATMAN #41
Written by TOM KING
Art and cover by MIKEL JANIN
Variant cover by OLIVIER COIPEL
“EVERYONE LOVES IVY” part one! Mikel Janin returns to BATMAN for a brand-new epic! *Pamela Isley’s influence can spread as far as vegetation will allow, putting the whole world at her fingertips. Can Batman and Catwoman stand their ground against an entire planet of Poison Ivys?
*

So I guess either Batman/Catwoman will be teaming up to stop things from progressing? Or stop the "Ivys"? 

Will Ivy be the 2nd rogue to appear in real time in Rebirth Batman? For some reason, I can't think of anybody else but Bane.

----------


## Frontier

Ivy is confirmed to be in the new Harley Quinn cartoon.

----------


## WontonGirl

> Ivy is confirmed to be in the new Harley Quinn cartoon.


Yeah I figured that. She's Harley's sidekick now. 

Funny, it used to be the reverse.

----------


## sakuyamons

> Yeah I figured that. She's Harley's sidekick now. 
> 
> Funny, it used to be the reverse.


Maybe on the show they’ll have a relationship similar to Bats the animated series  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## buck135

Here's a concept photo.

https://batman-news.com/2017/11/20/h...margot-robbie/

I don't love Ivy's look, but it's fine. I'd much rather Tara Strong voice Harley and hope that Tasia Valenza reprises her role as Ivy. After that Justice League s**tshow, I've lost a lot of faith in DC.

----------


## Frontier

> Here's a photo.
> 
> https://batman-news.com/2017/11/20/h...margot-robbie/


I like her design  :Smile: .

----------


## buck135

Harley is perfectly sporting her Rebirth look. Ivy looks like Meredith from The Office in cosplay.

----------


## sakuyamons

> Harley is perfectly sporting her Rebirth look. Ivy looks like Meredith from The Office in cosplay.


It’s better than how she looks in Harley’s solo.

Also, how is ivy portrayed in that Batman and Harley movie?

----------


## Confuzzled

> It’s better than how she looks in Harley’s solo.
> 
> Also, how is ivy portrayed in that Batman and Harley movie?


That's funny because that concept art is by Amanda Conner who does Ivy in the Harley solo.

Regarding the movie, the Ivy actress does a good job. The characterisation is as good as you could hope for from Current Bruce Timm (which isn't a lot).

----------


## Confuzzled

> This is the description: 
> 
> BATMAN #41
> Written by TOM KING
> Art and cover by MIKEL JANIN
> Variant cover by OLIVIER COIPEL
> “EVERYONE LOVES IVY” part one! Mikel Janin returns to BATMAN for a brand-new epic! *Pamela Isley’s influence can spread as far as vegetation will allow, putting the whole world at her fingertips. Can Batman and Catwoman stand their ground against an entire planet of Poison Ivys?*.


Doesn't this sound a bit inspired by this summer's Twitter tussle involving King and Poison Ivy's social media fan club? Down to the _Everybody loves Ivy!_ story title? Is it just me?

----------


## WontonGirl

> Doesn't this sound a bit inspired by this summer's Twitter tussle involving King and Poison Ivy's social media fan club? Down to the _Everybody loves Ivy!_ story title? Is it just me?


You know, I was reading a couple of Poison Ivy fans twitter feeds because there were a couple that posted on his timeline, something about keeping his promises to them? What did he promise them? That she would show up in the book or have her own arc?

----------


## buck135

> Its better than how she looks in Harleys solo.
> 
> Also, how is ivy portrayed in that Batman and Harley movie?


I'll give you that. I'm tired of the New 52 look. I won't watch the Batman/Harley movie. The trailer was enough.

----------


## Fergus

> You know, I was reading a couple of Poison Ivy fans twitter feeds because there were a couple that posted on his timeline, something about keeping his promises to them? What did he promise them? That she would show up in the book or have her own arc?


That he wouldn't mess her about which he did. He promised she wasn't going to be a bad guy but made her one. King needs to get off social media. Why promise that in the 1st place? and he's always the one to make first contact so I can;t even blame fans when they come for him.

----------


## Barbatos666

I believe he promised them that he would continue where Snyder left her in ASB. Only problem is that WOJAR was set in the past hence "plans change".

----------


## Fergus

He should have kept his mouth shut and just done his job He's a writer not a publicist

----------


## Barbatos666

Cant argue with that and I dont think even his promotion is good. Half the time he's talking about the upcoming Kite Man hell yeah non sense that overstayed its welcome 25 issues ago.

----------


## WontonGirl

> I believe he promised them that he would continue where Snyder left her in ASB. Only problem is that WOJAR was set in the past hence "plans change".


Oh is this regarding the “won’t make Ivy a killer” thing?

----------


## Barbatos666

> Oh is this regarding the wont make Ivy a killer thing?


Yes but TBH those same fans on twitter dont have a problem with Ivy murdering people as long as she gets away with it or if they "deserve" it. For instance she killed a sleazy guy hitting on her and an abusive dog owner but heaven forbid if some Penguin mooks bite the dust.
So as long as those possessive fans on Twitter get to decide who deserves to die they're pretty ok with it.

----------


## darkeyes

http://deadline.com/2017/11/harley-q...er-1202212632/

Looks like we will be seeing some more animated Ivy soon, at least as a guest star.

----------


## MentalManipulator

Hope the show is good. I love cartoons and I dig Ivy's look in this. 

Fingers crossed for it to be a little more intelligent and creative then the Batman and Harley movie.

----------


## Frontier

> http://deadline.com/2017/11/harley-q...er-1202212632/
> 
> Looks like we will be seeing some more animated Ivy soon, at least as a guest star.


Hey, look at it this way...even if you aren't crazy about Harley and Ivy being attached to the hip, it also means that the more Harley we get, the more Ivy we get  :Wink: .

Of course, not all uses of Ivy are good in and of themselves  :Stick Out Tongue: .

----------


## sakuyamons

> Hey, look at it this way...even if you aren't crazy about Harley and Ivy being attached to the hip, it also means that the more Harley we get, the more Ivy we get .
> 
> Of course, not all uses of Ivy are good in and of themselves .


I personally like the Harley & Ivy dynamic — I just wish it wasn’t the only proper dynamic Ivy had  :Stick Out Tongue:  Harley has other dynamics like the Squad. That’s why I liked the Ivy mini, so she could *shine* on her own.

----------


## Confuzzled

I love the Harley & Ivy dynamic but folks like Palmiotti/Conner and heck, even Dini and Timm nowadays, don't really do anything exciting or new with it and usually just pander to different fanbases or ride the coattails of older popular stories featuring the duo. Boring.

But I have heard good things about the _Powerless_ show, especially its latter episodes, so hopefully this show is good with the creators learning from their former experience on a DC product.

----------


## WontonGirl

> I love the Harley & Ivy dynamic but folks like Palmiotti/Conner and heck, even Dini and Timm nowadays, don't really do anything exciting or new with it and usually just pander to different fanbases or ride the coattails of older popular stories featuring the duo. Boring.
> 
> But I have heard good things about the _Powerless_ show, especially its latter episodes, so hopefully this show is good with the creators learning from their former experience on a DC product.


Powerless that got cancelled?

----------


## Frontier

> I personally like the Harley & Ivy dynamic — I just wish it wasn’t the only proper dynamic Ivy had  Harley has other dynamics like the Squad. That’s why I liked the Ivy mini, so she could *shine* on her own.


I like the Harley & Ivy dynamic, but I prefer it where they're both equals rather then Ivy being Harley's sidekick, which I understand some people take issue with. 

But I also agree that I'd like to see Ivy strike out and interact with more characters as well  :Smile: .

----------


## Barbatos666

They'll never be equals, one is much more popular and her fanbase sees Ivy as a Harley support character so ofcourse DC will pander to them.

----------


## Confuzzled

There is an alternate universe out there where Paul Dini does not create Harley Quinn but instead his first and foremost pet is still Poison Ivy and Timm and he consistently work for 26 years giving her mass exposure as a standalone. You _know_ Ivy was his initial favorite before Harley started gaining popularity post _Harley and Ivy_ and he realized he could gain more influence and respect if he milked the popularity of his own creation rather than an already established one. 

But it's an interesting scenario to consider if Dini never created Harley or the Harley & Ivy dynamic. How popular would Ivy have become if she received Dini's undiluted focus and priority? Would the Catwoman fans be angry at Ivy being the new "It" girl and replacing their favorite? How would her characterization have been received as opposed to her previous ones? How would she have evolved? Or would she have devolved by being the primary object of fanboy fascination?

----------


## Vanguard-01

> They'll never be equals, one is much more popular and her fanbase sees Ivy as a Harley support character so ofcourse DC will pander to them.


Wouldn't be too sure. Harley's popularity may already be waning. Her sales aren't as great as they used to be and the creative team that helped make her popular are leaving soon. 

Won't say it's gonna happen or even that it'll happen soon, but it COULD happen.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Wouldn't be too sure. Harley's popularity may already be waning. Her sales aren't as great as they used to be and the creative team that helped make her popular are leaving soon. 
> 
> Won't say it's gonna happen or even that it'll happen soon, but it COULD happen.


If given anywhere close to the massive push that Harley receives, Ivy can easily be as popular if not more, especially with women and people who are more environment conscious. Heck, that mini that received minimal promotion managed consistent sales of 22-23K per issue with a relatively unknown writer, higher than minis featuring more exposed characters and bigger name writers like Len Wein's Swamp Thing and Marv Wolfman's Raven.

----------


## Barbatos666

> Wouldn't be too sure. Harley's popularity may already be waning. Her sales aren't as great as they used to be and the creative team that helped make her popular are leaving soon. 
> 
> Won't say it's gonna happen or even that it'll happen soon, but it COULD happen.


She just got an animated movie and will undoubtedly be a part of the upcoming Suicide Squad animated film, she's a big part of the current season of Telltale Batman and now this animated series. Plus all the chatter of GCS, SS2 and the Harley/Joker film.
She doesn't need to sell big numbers in comics at this point and they can always relaunch with a big creative team at the time of another movie, I dont see Harley mania ending anytime soon.

----------


## Darkspellmaster

> If given anywhere close to the massive push that Harley receives, Ivy can easily be as popular if not more, especially with women and people who are more environment conscious. Heck, that mini that received minimal promotion managed consistent sales of 22-23K per issue with a relatively unknown writer, higher than minis featuring more exposed characters and bigger name writers like Len Wein's Swamp Thing and Marv Wolfman's Raven.


Yeah, apparently though, what seems sort of messed up is that she kind of puts the blame on being let go from DC because of the Mini and her changing the story when they changed editors on her. Or at least other outlets are pointing out that she was let go by DC because of one of the bad guys in the mini. 

The problem with Pam is that, unlike Harley who, if you go back to the most well known form of her, the animated series one, under all the makeup she's still a good person at heart. Pam on the other hand, the more well known form of her, even though she does it for the environment, and Greg did a smash job on her in Batman , her most well known personality comes from the animated series, and in that case, she's more of a straight up villain then someone that has been corrupted. She dates Harvey just to kill him to get what she wants, even if it is still for a good cause. 

Honestly I would rather have her be a bad guy since there's not a lot of pure female villains for Bats to deal with anymore. Catwoman and Harley are both the top two most well known and and both are playing hero right now, so you do need someone that could be bad naturally. Pam fits that.

----------


## rosenrose

> Yeah, apparently though, what seems sort of messed up is that she kind of puts the blame on being let go from DC because of the Mini and her changing the story when they changed editors on her. Or at least other outlets are pointing out that she was let go by DC because of one of the bad guys in the mini. 
> 
> The problem with Pam is that, unlike Harley who, if you go back to the most well known form of her, the animated series one, under all the makeup she's still a good person at heart. Pam on the other hand, the more well known form of her, even though she does it for the environment, and Greg did a smash job on her in Batman , her most well known personality comes from the animated series, and in that case, she's more of a straight up villain then someone that has been corrupted. She dates Harvey just to kill him to get what she wants, even if it is still for a good cause. 
> 
> Honestly I would rather have her be a bad guy since there's not a lot of pure female villains for Bats to deal with anymore. Catwoman and Harley are both the top two most well known and and both are playing hero right now, so you do need someone that could be bad naturally. Pam fits that.


Hi I'm the author of said article. Never in the article it is mentioned or even implied that "puts the blame on being let go from DC because of the Mini and her changing the story when they changed editors on her" and so far I haven't read someone reporting on it (and I pay a lot of attention to articles referencing my own). 

Historically Poison Ivy is a more "good person" than Harley. Especially in comics since we are discussing comics right now. Harley has been consistent at targeting kids (Suicide Squad) and infants (Jokers NML plan-also one of Harley's first apperances). 

Currently Poison Ivy is in fact less villainous than Catwoman since Catwoman has been sentenced to death while Ivy is working at Barbara Gordon's company (BBOP). And throughout New52 till now, Ivy has always been on the edge of the law but not crossing it and this is why shes still free and not in Arkham, death row or Suicide Squad. 

Comics evolve. So do characters. DC has 1628 female villains. Most of them Bat related. Why not ask from DC use some of them instead of erasing Ivy's character progress that took decades. This way we are all happy.

Unless there is a reason you specifically want Poison Ivy to turn back into a villain instead of using the rest 1627 female villains which at least for me makes no sense.

Nobody is taking away your female villain. 3 villains out of 1627 going neutral/heroic is 0.18438844499078058%.
Instead you should worry about male Batman and Superman villains who constantly get heroic upgrades in canon or AU.

----------


## mathew101281

> Yeah, apparently though, what seems sort of messed up is that she kind of puts the blame on being let go from DC because of the Mini and her changing the story when they changed editors on her. Or at least other outlets are pointing out that she was let go by DC because of one of the bad guys in the mini
> 
> Honestly I would rather have her be a bad guy since there's not a lot of pure female villains for Bats to deal with anymore. Catwoman and Harley are both the top two most well known and and both are playing hero right now, so you do need someone that could be bad naturally. Pam fits that.


I agree, she doesn’t need a face turn. Superhero comics have a real issue with that. It’s why their really aren’t any female villains in the top ten villains of all time lists. Their seem to be this underlying pressure to reform (or atleast turn into an antihero) any female villain that gets any moniker of success.

----------


## buck135

> Unless there is a reason you specifically want Poison Ivy to turn back into a villain instead of using the rest 1627 female villains which at least for me makes no sense.


I personally love Ivy as a villain since she is the greatest threat to Batman/Gotham City (spores, vines, deadly/hypnotic kiss, etc). She has been written well over the past 50+ years, however I feel there is so much untapped potential.

----------


## WontonGirl

> Yeah, apparently though, what seems sort of messed up is that she kind of puts the blame on being let go from DC because of the Mini and her changing the story when they changed editors on her. Or at least other outlets are pointing out that she was let go by DC because of one of the bad guys in the mini. 
> 
> The problem with Pam is that, unlike Harley who, if you go back to the most well known form of her, the animated series one, under all the makeup she's still a good person at heart. Pam on the other hand, the more well known form of her, even though she does it for the environment, and Greg did a smash job on her in Batman , her most well known personality comes from the animated series, and in that case, she's more of a straight up villain then someone that has been corrupted. She dates Harvey just to kill him to get what she wants, even if it is still for a good cause. 
> 
> Honestly I would rather have her be a bad guy since there's not a lot of pure female villains for Bats to deal with anymore. Catwoman and Harley are both the top two most well known and and both are playing hero right now, so you do need someone that could be bad naturally. Pam fits that.


But he's never had too many female villains period. But Poison was definitely created to be one of Batman's enemies. And she is fantastic at it. 

But there are those who love her as a rogue and those that love her as a hero and those that love her as anti-villain and those that love her as the anti-hero. I mean, which Ivy will satisfy most of her fans?

----------


## WontonGirl

> I personally love Ivy as a villain since she is the greatest threat to Batman/Gotham City (spores, vines, deadly/hypnotic kiss, etc). She has been written well over the past 50+ years, however I feel there is so much untapped potential.


You get the right writer, Poison Ivy could tear Gotham City apart! And look good doing it! She is indeed one of the most strongest rogues in DC Comics and yet.....

----------


## Confuzzled

But they won't make her literally rip Gotham apart as it clashes with the more "grounded" and less fantastical approach they go for Gotham denizens. Ivy's nature goddess like powers already make her stick out like a (green) thumb in the Bat mythos, so they will always come up with clumsy ways to nerf her. I think as a traditional villain, she has run her course and hit a ceiling. It's time to let her move on beyond that. _Plants perish if you stunt their growth._  :Stick Out Tongue: 

And really, it's about time Batman finally got some new female villains (who aren't male derivatives like the two recent Ventriloquists).

----------


## WontonGirl

> Currently Poison Ivy is in fact less villainous than Catwoman since Catwoman has been sentenced to death while Ivy is working at Barbara Gordon's company (BBOP).


Um, Catwoman is NOT sentenced to death, her sentence was eventually changed to life in prison AND she didn't even do the crime that put her in jail in the first place. She was taking the hit for her friend Holly.

Hopefully, by the time Poison Ivy shows up in Batman Issue #41, her name will be cleared.

----------


## rosenrose

> Um, Catwoman is NOT sentenced to death, her sentence was eventually changed to life in prison AND she didn't even do the crime that put her in jail in the first place. She was taking the hit for her friend Holly.
> 
> Hopefully, by the time Poison Ivy shows up in Batman Issue #41, her name will be cleared.


Yes, I know. But my response was about Ivy's current status. She is not in Arkham or prison but working at Batgirs company, knowing the identities of all the birds as well as Ollies. Batman is working with her in Snyders ASB etc etc. I have an academic style article coming up with her current status and timeline with information and quotes straight from the writers themselves and why her journey points towards heroism. I'll post it here once its out and you are interested.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Yes, I know. But my response was about Ivy's current status. She is not in Arkham or prison but working at Batgirs company, knowing the identities of all the birds as well as Ollies. Batman is working with her in Snyders ASB etc etc. I have an academic style article coming up with her current status and timeline with information and quotes straight from the writers themselves and why her journey points towards heroism. I'll post it here once its out and you are interested.


Wow that article does sound amazing. Would love to hear the writers' perspective and your well-researched insight on Ivy's character journey and development. Please post it here once it's out. #hyped

----------


## Frontier

> Historically Poison Ivy is a more "good person" than Harley. Especially in comics since we are discussing comics right now. Harley has been consistent at targeting kids (Suicide Squad) and infants (Jokers NML plan-also one of Harley's first apperances).


And those moments were seen as too much even for Harley. 

Ivy's initial appearances had her committing numerous crimes and in one issue killing a bunch of rich people with her kiss (and not for any ecological reason, as I recall). I really don't think the argument that she's more "good" then Harley really tracks. 




> Currently Poison Ivy is in fact less villainous than Catwoman since Catwoman has been sentenced to death while Ivy is working at Barbara Gordon's company (BBOP). And throughout New52 till now, Ivy has always been on the edge of the law but not crossing it and this is why shes still free and not in Arkham, death row or Suicide Squad.


As has already been pointed out, Catwoman was on death row for a crime she didn't commit, so I'm not sure how that makes her more villainous then Ivy, especially when Selina also joined the Birds around the same time Ivy did. 

Now, I don't really buy this development with Selina and Ivy in that book, and I don't think they should be on the team, but that's a whole other thing.

This "edge of the law" status quo seems more Rebirth then New 52, where Ivy was still much more of a villain. 




> But they won't make her literally rip Gotham apart as it clashes with the more "grounded" and less fantastical approach they go for Gotham denizens. Ivy's nature goddess like powers already make her stick out like a (green) thumb in the Bat mythos, so they will always come up with clumsy ways to nerf her. I think as a traditional villain, she has run her course and hit a ceiling. It's time to let her move on beyond that. _Plants perish if you stunt their growth._


I think as a villain Ivy's too versatile to ever really hit a ceiling, but that's me. 




> And really, it's about time Batman finally got some new female villains (who aren't male derivatives like the two recent Ventriloquists).


It's hard enough for new male villains to take off. The last time I think the Bat-Books tried to spin off some new female villains we got Mother and Batgirl's one-off villains (none of whom have appeared since the first Burnside run).

----------


## rosenrose

> And those moments were seen as too much even for Harley. 
> 
> Ivy's initial appearances had her committing numerous crimes and in one issue killing a bunch of rich people with her kiss (and not for any ecological reason, as I recall). I really don't think the argument that she's more "good" then Harley really tracks. 
> 
> 
> As has already been pointed out, Catwoman was on death row for a crime she didn't commit, so I'm not sure how that makes her more villainous then Ivy, especially when Selina also joined the Birds around the same time Ivy did. 
> 
> Now, I don't really buy this development with Selina and Ivy in that book, and I don't think they should be on the team, but that's a whole other thing.
> 
> ...


I think I've answered most of the points in my previous answer. As I said, characters evolve and change. Even the definition of evil changes drastically. For the people who like mass murdering ecoterrorist there are plenty of books available as ie Injustice. For the rest I think you'll have to wait for the article.
Have a nice Thanksgiving.

----------


## Frontier

> I think I've answered most of the points in my previous answer. As I said, characters evolve and change. Even the definition of evil changes drastically. For the people who like mass murdering ecoterrorist there are plenty of books available as ie Injustice. For the rest I think you'll have to wait for the article.
> *Have a nice Thanksgiving*.


Same to you  :Smile: .

----------


## WontonGirl

> Yes, I know. But my response was about Ivy's current status. She is not in Arkham or prison but working at Batgirs company, knowing the identities of all the birds as well as Ollies. Batman is working with her in Snyders ASB etc etc. I have an academic style article coming up with her current status and timeline with information and quotes straight from the writers themselves and why her journey points towards heroism. I'll post it here once its out and you are interested.


Always interested in academic articles about comic heroes! Good job!

----------


## Darkspellmaster

[QUOTE=rosenrose;3256027]Hi I'm the author of said article. Never in the article it is mentioned or even implied that "puts the blame on being let go from DC because of the Mini and her changing the story when they changed editors on her" and so far I haven't read someone reporting on it (and I pay a lot of attention to articles referencing my own). [/quote ]

Hi, and thank you for responding. I'm on my phone so this won't be as clean as I want it to be, so apologies in advance.

Your first price was not the one I read. Rather it was the article covering it on The Mary Sue. The article there, from the way it's written and the comments section seem to imply that Ms. Chu was limited based on her sales here and that DC and Eddie caused this.

https://www.themarysue.com/amy-chu-poison-ivy-berganza/

Given that article my take away was that the change to the story caused DC to cancel the story.




> Historically Poison Ivy is a more "good person" than Harley. Especially in comics since we are discussing comics right now. Harley has been consistent at targeting kids (Suicide Squad) and infants (Jokers NML plan-also one of Harley's first apperances).


While you are right that Harley does have a darker comics history, the more well known forms, T.V. show, the arkham games and the movie. All three have her being more a villain than Harley. Heck,  an entire movie based on Harley having to stop her from using a dirty bomb. So of the two more known version of Ivy has never been shown to truly go straight, unlike Harley. 

[Quote] Currently Poison Ivy is in fact less villainous than Catwoman since Catwoman has been sentenced to death while Ivy is working at Barbara Gordon's company (BBOP). And throughout New52 till now, Ivy has always been on the edge of the law but not crossing it and this is why shes still free and not in Arkham, death row or Suicide Squad. [/qoute] 

Catwoman has a long history of being a more heroic character, Ivy for her part has always been a villain. Not to mention, as others have said, Catwoman is taking the fall for Holly. When Ivy chose in the story to go good she in turn murders the guy blackmailing her, making her just as bad as the guy blackmailing her.

Yes right now she is good, but how long before they need her to be evil to counter Selina's more heroic character they are trying to set up.




> Comics evolve. So do characters. DC has 1628 female villains. Most of them Bat related. Why not ask from DC use some of them instead of erasing Ivy's character progress that took decades. This way we are all happy.


I would love for that to happen. But let's be honest, how many of those characters are as popular or as marketable as Ivy? Baby doll is one I can think of, but DC doesn't have her in the comics. And who's  the more interesting character. Ivy, or White Rabbit, a catwoman clone. DC sees she sells as a bad guy.

[Quote] Unless there is a reason you specifically want Poison Ivy to turn back into a villain instead of using the rest 1627 female villains which at least for me makes no sense.[quote] 

See above. I think Ivy works as a villain. Just always felt she had a more selfish drive than say Catwoman.




> Nobody is taking away your female villain. 3 villains out of 1627 going neutral/heroic is 0.18438844499078058%.
> Instead you should worry about male Batman and Superman villains who constantly get heroic upgrades in canon or AU.


I've got no problem with her going heroic, but they need to replace her with some one good. We have a tendency to act like women can't be as evil as their counter parts. And I have, and the thing is that there are more male villains then female villains, so you have a greater variety of guys you can get away with.

Again you keep saying that number but how many are just one offs or ones that don't stick. So they stick with what they know.

----------


## Darkspellmaster

> Yes, I know. But my response was about Ivy's current status. She is not in Arkham or prison but working at Batgirs company, knowing the identities of all the birds as well as Ollies. Batman is working with her in Snyders ASB etc etc. I have an academic style article coming up with her current status and timeline with information and quotes straight from the writers themselves and why her journey points towards heroism. I'll post it here once its out and you are interested.


Sounds interesting. I will take a look at it. 😊

----------


## PwrdOn

Yeah Reigns has no mic skills, but his point is kind of valid.  Stop worrying about whether Ivy should be good or evil and just write her in whatever way feels most natural.

----------


## WontonGirl

> Yeah Reigns has no mic skills, but his point is kind of valid.  Stop worrying about whether Ivy should be good or evil and just write her in whatever way feels most natural.


This is a good point. Ivy can be whatever I guess. She can be a hero for one thing but be a villain for something else. 

At the end of the day, people are going to like Ivy for how *they* like her. The ones that like her as a villain will most likely always like her like that. The ones that like her as a "good" guy will most likely always like her like that. Even if DC comics made a permanent decision as to what Ivy will be, the other side will always say "well she wasn't always written like that".

----------


## Samm

http://community.comicbookresources....omicdom/page10

Go and vote for Ivy (or any female really). I'm surprised Ivy, Harley, Barbara and Batwoman haven't been mentioned yet...

----------


## Confuzzled

> http://community.comicbookresources....omicdom/page10
> 
> Go and vote for Ivy (or any female really). I'm surprised Ivy, Harley, Barbara and Batwoman haven't been mentioned yet...


Voted.  :Smile:  Thank you for notifying us.

----------


## Confuzzled

> It's hard enough for new male villains to take off. The last time I think the Bat-Books tried to spin off some new female villains we got Mother and Batgirl's one-off villains (none of whom have appeared since the first Burnside run).


I don't think that's necessarily true about new villains. The Court of Owls, Professor Pyg and the Dollmaker have managed to stay afloat thanks to other media appearances this early in their lifetime. Obviously it will take time to catch up to the classics who have been around for 75+ years, but it's a solid start. Not everyone can take off like Bane and when someone tries to force fit a new villain to pull a Bane, you end up with less than desirable results like Hush and Thomas Wayne Jr.

I think Mother has potential if executed better in the future. The Anchoress is another compelling new villain who I think could become a mainstay if used consistently with quality stories. That's all it takes. I think Dan Slott's Jane Doe had potential too but then they messed her up. Still can be "rebooted" in an interesting way.

----------


## Confuzzled

Damn, the Injustice 2 comic got super soapy and dramatic with Harley and Ivy's relationship



Also, between Injustice and DC Super Hero Girls, someone really likes Pam rocking the Elsa braid!

----------


## Frontier

> Damn, the Injustice 2 comic got super soapy and dramatic with Harley and Ivy's relationship
> 
> 
> 
> Also, between Injustice and DC Super Hero Girls, someone really likes Pam rocking the Elsa side braid!


This is a stark difference from their interactions in the actual game. I wonder what happened...

----------


## Confuzzled

> This is a stark difference from their interactions in the actual game. I wonder what happened...


They are still on opposite sides. Ivy is siding with Ra's and his apocalyptic schemes but just for one night, she asks Harley whether they could put their stark differences aside due to their immense and enduring love for each other. She leaves Harley at daybreak.  :Frown:

----------


## Frontier

Brianne Douhard, who produced the Amethyst shorts for DC Nation, mentioned in a podcast that there was a pitch for a Bumblebee series that saw her taking on Poison Ivy who had enslaved bees to use them on plants in a plant spa.




> They are still on opposite sides. Ivy is siding with Ra's and his apocalyptic schemes but just for one night, she asks Harley whether they could put their stark differences aside due to their immense and enduring love for each other. She leaves Harley at daybreak.


Now Ivy sounds like Harley's Catwoman  :Stick Out Tongue: .

----------


## Confuzzled

> Brianne Douhard, who produced the Amethyst shorts for DC Nation, mentioned in a podcast that there was a pitch for a Bumblebee series that saw her taking on Poison Ivy who had enslaved bees to use them on plants in a plant spa.


Lolwut. It would have been cute though. This also shows how much Ivy was/is in demand especially when it comes to other media adaptations. I remember Bruce Timm saying a lot of writers kept suggesting stories involving her for _Justice League_/_Justice League Unlimited_ but he kept vetoing it because he wanted to give the Bat villains a rest after BTAS/TNBA and let the others shine for a while (except apparently The Joker).




> Now Ivy sounds like Harley's Catwoman .


I know it will infuriate Wonton Girl, but Black Cat did the one night stand thing first.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## WontonGirl

> http://community.comicbookresources....omicdom/page10
> 
> Go and vote for Ivy (or any female really). I'm surprised Ivy, Harley, Barbara and Batwoman haven't been mentioned yet...


It seems very Marvel slanted. Or a lot of the Marvel fans are voting in the polls I should say.

----------


## WontonGirl

> This is a stark difference from their interactions in the actual game. I wonder what happened...


Yeah, something definitely happened. We shall find out maybe in later issues.

----------


## WontonGirl

> I know it will infuriate Wonton Girl, but Black Cat did the one night stand thing first.



I don't know what would infuriate me? I don't know what you are talking about or referring to.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I don't know what would infuriate me? I don't know what you are talking about or referring to.


Your refusal to admit that a lot about modern Catwoman and her dynamic with Batman have been heavily inspired by original Black Cat and her dynamic with Spider-Man.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## WontonGirl

> Your refusal to admit that a lot about modern Catwoman and her dynamic with Batman have been heavily inspired by original Black Cat and her dynamic with Spider-Man.


Hey hold on, I not refusing to admit anything. I never even heard of Black Cat till like 2015. I didn't know anything about her relationship with Spider-Man. I thought she was inspired by Catwoman since Catwoman was created first. 

Makes me no difference. I don't read Black Cat.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Hey hold on, I not refusing to admit anything. I never even heard of Black Cat till like 2015. I didn't know anything about her relationship with Spider-Man. I thought she was inspired by Catwoman since Catwoman was created first. 
> 
> Makes me no difference. I don't read Black Cat.


It's okay. I didn't mean it as an attack, just playful teasing based on our previous interactions on the matter.  :Smile:

----------


## K Nikk

> It's okay. I didn't mean it as an attack, just playful teasing based on our previous interactions on the matter.


I hadn't heard about Black Cat before.  Is the Wikipedia article about her fairly accurate in that she was into Spider-Man but not into Peter Parker?  That feels different from Batman/Catwoman - Selina always seemed fond of both Batman and Bruce even when she didn't know they were the same person.  But I'm interested in reading about the parallels.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I hadn't heard about Black Cat before.  Is the Wikipedia article about her fairly accurate in that she was into Spider-Man but not into Peter Parker?  That feels different from Batman/Catwoman - Selina always seemed fond of both Batman and Bruce even when she didn't know they were the same person.  But I'm interested in reading about the parallels.


The way it traditionally went with the big 3 Spider-Man love interests was: Gwen Stacy (into Peter, hated SM), Black Cat (into SM, was initially disappointed to discover his real identity was Peter) and Mary Jane (fangirled over SM and was into Peter as well; later 80's retcon that had her discover Spidey's identity before even meeting him made it like her curiosity was aroused regarding Peter after her discovery, but then the more she came to know him in real life, the more she fell for the person he truly was as well).

Black Cat's relationship with Spider-Man (as in them having straight up sex and Peter even prematurely imagining settling down with her) was established before Batman and Catwoman were anywhere seriously near actual love interests outside of winking flirtations and maybe alternate universe tales. It was only after Black Cat became incredibly popular late 70's onwards due to her dynamics with Spider-Man that DC seriously considered making Selina a real love interest with an actual chance of having a romance with Bruce. Once the Batman/Catwoman relationship was firmly established through the 80's and 90's, Marvel in turn had Black Cat get over her disdain for Peter Parker and long for him, though at the time he was unavailable due to his marriage to MJ. So in a way both characters inspired each others' personalities and relationships as is so often the case with DC/Marvel, but Selina became more of a sympathetic anti-heroine and romantic interest due to Felicia's influence.

----------


## PwrdOn

The dynamic between Batman and Catwoman is surely iconic, and even if it was derivative they definitely did a much better job with that angle and making it a true pillar of comic book lore which the Black Cat aren't.  As it relates to Poison Ivy though, this relationship tends to be quite disastrous for our girl, because it seems like every time they want Bruce and Selina to team up they want to show that she has turned the corner by having her beat the stuffing out of a truly bad girl.  The rivalry between Selina and Pam before Sirens was definitely fun, but it was hopelessly one-sided.

----------


## Confuzzled

Every time there was a Selina vs. Pam showdown, it was unfortunately just to job Ivy to Catwoman and to shame Ivy for skewing more towards the whore side of the "Madonna/whore" complex than Catwoman. One of the worst Ivy appearances ever was _Reap What You Sow_, a story in the original Catwoman title of the 90's:



In it, Selina constantly ridicules Ivy for needing artificial substances like chemicals and pheromones to charm and seduce men. It ends with an attack on what was perceived to be the source of Ivy's power, her looks. Selina smashes some plant fast growth enzymes on Pam's face, apparently giving the impression that Ivy would be physically scarred for life.



Thankfully nobody at DC bothered to follow this "development" for Ivy.

----------


## Confuzzled

Reminder that DC's New Talent Showcase out today features a Poison Ivy vs. creepy vampire demon story called _Silent Screams_.

[IMG]https://***********/batman-news.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/NEW_TALENT_SHOWCASE_2017_1_5991e507237928.51977434  .jpg?quality=85&strip=info&ssl=1&w=800[/IMG]

[IMG]https://***********/batman-news.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/IMG_2324.jpg?w=370&quality=85&strip=info&ssl=1[/IMG]

[IMG]https://***********/batman-news.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/IMG_2326.jpg?w=586&quality=85&strip=info&ssl=1[/IMG]

Though apparently she also appears in the Duke story in the book, in her Arkham games visuals.

----------


## buck135

> Reminder that DC's New Talent Showcase out today features a Poison Ivy vs. creepy vampire demon story called _Silent Screams_.
> 
> Though apparently she also appears in the Duke story in the book, in her Arkham games visuals.


The artwork for Silent Screams is gorgeous. The other stories pale in comparison. She is in the Duke story as you mentioned, though only in a couple of panels with no dialogue. The $7.99 price tag is high, but worth it in my opinion for Silent Screams alone.

----------


## PwrdOn

It's cool to see Ivy finally getting a chance to kick butt and take names like a classic action hero/

----------


## Confuzzled

> The artwork for Silent Screams is gorgeous. The other stories pale in comparison. She is in the Duke story as you mentioned, though only in a couple of panels with no dialogue. The $7.99 price tag is high, but worth it in my opinion for Silent Screams alone.





> It's cool to see Ivy finally getting a chance to kick butt and take names like a classic action hero/


It was different and fell squarely between the misanthropy of the traditional Dini depiction and the far more sympathetic depictions by current writers. I enjoyed it as I assumed it was an out of continuity story. Versatile Poison Ivy stories are good in alternate universe scenarios like that.

----------


## Frontier

Ivy and Harley together in a new _Justice League Action_ webisode:

----------


## Confuzzled

> Ivy and Harley together in a new _Justice League Action_ webisode:


Cute. Natasha Leggero's Ivy sounds a bit like Idina Menzel (which is good)  :Stick Out Tongue: 

That Harley voice is kinda nails on the board tho. Sounds like Powerpuff Girls' Bubbles possessed by the Exorcist demon. I love ya Tara Strong, but reel it in a bit.

----------


## Frontier

> Cute. Natasha Leggero's Ivy sounds a bit like Idina Menzel (which is good)


Oh wow, I can totally hear that now  :Stick Out Tongue: .




> That Harley voice is kinda nails on the board tho. Sounds like Powerpuff Girls' Bubbles possessed by the Exorcist demon. I love ya Tara Strong, but reel it in a bit.


I can usually enjoy Tara's Harley but it can be an acquired taste. 

I definitely think there have been better Harley's who've been able to get the voice down without going as high-pitched.

----------


## Frontier

Ivy in _Batman Ninja_:

----------


## Confuzzled

Wow, she's in it! I thought she was excluded as she wasn't among the Bat Rogues listed in a previous synopsis for the film so was bummed. So yay!  :Smile:

----------


## sakuyamons

> Ivy in _Batman Ninja_:


She looks super badass. I bet she’s fighting against...Babs maybe?

----------


## WontonGirl

> Wow, she's in it! I thought she was excluded as she wasn't among the Bat Rogues listed in a previous synopsis for the film so was bummed. So yay!


Yes she's in it  :Smile:  She looks good! 

She's also on the front cover! All the Rogues are in the words BATMAN NINJA and then on the bottom is Bat, The 4 Robins, Alfred and Catwoman.  Batman-Ninja-Poster-680x962.jpg

----------


## Confuzzled

> She looks super badass. I bet she’s fighting against...Babs maybe?


The trailer makes it look like she's fighting Damian (at 1:07)




Is Babs in the film? As WontonGirl said, the redhead in black is Catwoman (which adds to the confusion).

----------


## Frontier

> Is Babs in the film? As WontonGirl said, the redhead in black is Catwoman (which adds to the confusion).


Is she a redhead? Catwoman looks blonde here.

----------


## WontonGirl

> The trailer makes it look like she's fighting Damian (at 1:07)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is Babs in the film? As WontonGirl said, the redhead in black is Catwoman (which adds to the confusion).


Yes Poison Ivy is fighting Damian in the trailer.

----------


## WontonGirl

Babs, from what is being shown, is NOT in the film. You can tell it's Catwoman because she has cat paw prints on her knees on her costume. The people in the film are listed below.

*Villains:* The Joker, Harley, Poison Ivy, Two-Face, Penguin, Deathstroke, and Gorilla Grodd. 

*Heroes/Allies:* Batman, Nightwing, Red Hood, Red Robin, Robin, Alfred and Catwoman. 

And yes, that was her and Damian fighting against each other in the trailer. She looks fantastic!  :Big Grin: 

Now if there are additional people in the film we don't know about, like an appearance from Gordon or perhaps Barbara, no trailers or reviews are mentioning them.

----------


## Confuzzled

Figures based on these Ninja designs are going to sell like crazy, aren't they? Ivy does look stunning.




> Is she a redhead? Catwoman looks blonde here.


I guess we are both wrong. This trailer offers a better look at her (at 0:26) and you can see she's brunette. 







> Babs, from what is being shown, is NOT in the film. You can tell it's Catwoman because she has cat paw prints on her knees on her costume. The people in the film are listed below.
> 
> *Villains:* The Joker, Harley, Poison Ivy, Two-Face, Penguin, Deathstroke, and Gorilla Grodd. 
> 
> *Heroes/Allies:* Batman, Nightwing, Red Hood, Red Robin, Robin, Alfred and Catwoman. 
> 
> And yes, that was her and Damian fighting against each other in the trailer. She looks fantastic! 
> 
> Now if there are additional people in the film we don't know about, like an appearance from Gordon or perhaps Barbara, no trailers or reviews are mentioning them.


Yup, it's Catwoman for sure as seen in that trailer above. It's pretty much her current costume with a few bells and whistles added (literally in the case of bells  :Stick Out Tongue: ). Bummer about no Babs or any of the Batgirls.

----------


## MentalManipulator

Wow! Very interesting and complex designs. Pamela looks very cool with pink hair. The only thing I dislike is the bow on her head. It looks childish.

----------


## WontonGirl

> Figures based on these Ninja designs are going to sell like crazy, aren't they? Ivy does look stunning.
> 
> 
> 
> I guess we are both wrong. This trailer offers a better look at her (at 0:26) and you can see she's brunette. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah and some people are upset too because there was an article, perhaps on DC site about this being the first time all the main Robins are being shown together, outside of a comic. and some people got upset and was like "what about Steph"?

----------


## WontonGirl

According to King; *Poison Ivy* will be in Issues #41-43. She will not be evil but she will be trying to do something "good" but Batman won't be agreeing with her methods. 

Also, King says that *Poison Ivy* did not kill those men in the past in WJR, she wrapped them up in the trees.  :Embarrassment:

----------


## Frontier

> According to King; *Poison Ivy* will be in Issues #41-43. She will not be evil but she will be trying to do something "good" but Batman won't be agreeing with her methods. 
> 
> Also, King says that *Poison Ivy* did not kill those men in the past in WJR, she wrapped them up in the trees.


I see what you did there King  :Stick Out Tongue: .

----------


## WontonGirl

> I see what you did there King .


Or maybe he meant it? I don't know. 

Anyway, Mikal will be drawing her in the arcs and I thought she looked very pretty during WJR.

----------


## Confuzzled

It wasn't a big deal if she had killed those men lol. It was pretty early on in her career and _they_ were the ones who threatened her with guns.

But I'm not complaining with this decision lol. Much, much better than King starting a petty fight with the Twitter Ivy fanbase, which was what I was initially fearing upon hearing of this _Everybody Loves Ivy_ story arc.

----------


## MentalManipulator

I just can/t wait to see a movie version of Ivy. Seeing the popularity of Wonder Woman and Harley Quinn movie versions of the characters makes me hopeful. 

Although the Uma Thurman portrayal may be controversial now days, I remember how I was excited when she was announced as one of the new villains in the movie ; and how I loved it at the time. I watch it over and over. I was 12 and bought all merchandising for the movie. Give us Ivy in Gotham City Sirens, Batgirl and SS2!

----------


## Confuzzled

> I just can/t wait to see a movie version of Ivy. Seeing the popularity of Wonder Woman and Harley Quinn movie versions of the characters makes me hopeful. 
> 
> Although the Uma Thurman portrayal may be controversial now days, I remember how I was excited when she was announced as one of the new villains in the movie ; and how I loved it at the time. I watch it over and over. I was 12 and bought all merchandising for the movie. Give us Ivy in Gotham City Sirens, Batgirl and SS2!


And the Batman solo too!  :Big Grin: 

Apparently Margot Robbie wants her own Harley film that focuses on female friendship. Hmm, I wonder if we will get a _Harley & Ivy_ type film first, and then if it's successful, a lead into Gotham City Sirens.

----------


## DragonPiece

> According to King; *Poison Ivy* will be in Issues #41-43. She will not be evil but she will be trying to do something "good" but Batman won't be agreeing with her methods. 
> 
> Also, King says that *Poison Ivy* did not kill those men in the past in WJR, she wrapped them up in the trees.


Why did King apologize for having her kill when these issues came out then?

----------


## rosenrose

> Why did King apologize for having her kill when these issues came out then?


Hi, I'm the person who asked the question and also one of the people mr King apologize in Twitter.
Here's the whole story.
I think it's because he had promised a completely different introduction to Ivy. It's not just that she "killed" these people in the park, it's how her character was used and what readers were expecting. We asked, mr King replied, we criticized and unfortunately certain people started attacking my friends and me, sending some very threatening stuff. Mr King did help and blocked/reported some of the trolls and for some more serious cases of people sending Ivy fans death and rape threats, Twitter decided to completely remove the profiles. Mr King had been vocal against these trolls and helped Ivy fans with this issue.
As for this story we'll have to wait and see. 

Here's the article I mentioned earlier.
http://womenwriteaboutcomics.com/201...eroic-journey/

It took me a lot of work and effort to write this as well as questions to creators about this to make it as accurate as possible. I want to thank WWAC and all the people who helped with this as well as the creators mentioned (and some who are not but helped me with this).
for any questions you can hit me at twitter at @ivygirl851 since I'm not a user of these forums.

----------


## WontonGirl

> I think it's because he had promised a completely different introduction to Ivy. It's not just that she "killed" these people in the park, it's how her character was used and _what readers were expecting_.


No I think that it was what readers who are fans of Ivy as a complete hero or Anti-hero was expecting. 

If you think of Ivy as a Villain or Anti-Villain or "not so bad" Villain, or not necessarily as a "hero", then there was no surprise at what she did. Whether she "killed" the people or not.

----------


## WontonGirl

I will say that what King did was nice and way beyond what most people would had done, especially for fans of a fictional character. But it doesn't surprised me that he did it because he seems to be a generally nice man. 

*And internet and social media bullying of anybody should never be allowed.* Especially death and rape threats. That just takes things way too far.  :Mad: 

Edited post...

----------


## HandofPrometheus

I don't get the want to turn Ivy good. I'm fine with anti-villain Ivy but her being bad is what made me like her in the first place. Don't know why female villains have to change when there's so little of them, especially well known female villains.

Anyway, how was her showcase story? I saw some art previews and it looked good. I do however hate the leaf heel boots lol.

----------


## rosenrose

> *And internet and social media bullying of anybody should never be allowed.* Especially death and rape threats. That just takes things way too far.


I agree. Unfortunately it never stopped happening. The good thing is that Twitter takes these threats seriously and removes the accounts. The bad thing is that they often reach to you with some really horrible stuff. I know that 99.9999999999% of them are empty threats but when you wake up and see yourself tagged with images of dead animals or gore, it's not the best thing in the world. Fortunately Twitter removes this crap almost instantly after reporting but the problem is that they shouldn't be allowed in the first place. In the past I have worked (and still volunteer) against harassment and the comic community, especially some people who feel threatened by new ideas can become very creepy.
I am writing an article about harassment and I'm finding difficult to select screencaps of the thing people have send me because some of the stuff are just too much to post.

----------


## WontonGirl

> I agree. Unfortunately it never stopped happening. The good thing is that Twitter takes these threats seriously and removes the accounts. The bad thing is that they often reach to you with some really horrible stuff. I know that 99.9999999999% of them are empty threats but when you wake up and see yourself tagged with images of dead animals or gore, it's not the best thing in the world. Fortunately Twitter removes this crap almost instantly after reporting but the problem is that they shouldn't be allowed in the first place. In the past I have worked (and still volunteer) against harassment and the comic community, especially some people who feel threatened by new ideas can become very creepy.
> I am writing an article about harassment and I'm finding difficult to select screencaps of the thing people have send me because some of the stuff are just too much to post.


That's way too creepy. Way too creepy. This is only a fictional character. Comics are fictional characters. I see this mess with TV shows and that's why I avoid fandoms of TV shows and movies. The community is too toxic. And it goes both ways. I'm seeing "fans" harass writers and artists and actors. Because they are not doing what they like with a character or not doing something. It's too much. I've seen critics and writers get rape and death threats. And also the publishing of people's person info has happened as well. 

If I was King I would had blocked EVERY SINGLE PERSON. From the haters to the trolls to the extremes and even the "we blocked the bad people in our fandom". Yes, I would block them too because people shouldn't be harassing these writers. NONE of them. King was too nice.

----------


## WontonGirl

> I don't get the want to turn Ivy good. I'm fine with anti-villain Ivy but her being bad is what made me like her in the first place. Don't know why female villains have to change when there's so little of them, especially well known female villains.
> 
> Anyway, how was her showcase story? I saw some art previews and it looked good. I do however hate the leaf heel boots lol.


I mean, it was okay to me. I am looking more forward to her in Batman Ninja  :Wink:

----------


## rosenrose

> If I was King I would had blocked EVERY SINGLE PERSON. From the haters to the trolls to the extremes and even the "we blocked the bad people in our fandom". Yes, I would block them too because people shouldn't be harassing these writers. NONE of them. King was too nice.


If you are talking about #PoisonIvyLeague, we never harassed or threatened anyone. In fact most of the creators people say we harass actually follow us and interact with us. 
What I did find is that two or three specific accounts of "traditionalist" comic critics have taken screencaps of things, tweets, posts from trolls that either pretend are Ivy fans or attack me and my friends, fractions of a second after they got posted or deleted from Twitter. Which is too damn weird. 
In fact it's weird enough for Twitter to remove one of these accounts who I suspected was creating fake profiles in order to create negative impressions about specific people.
I'm researching about whether it's legal to post some stuff in an article considering they are private conversations and threats from people with big accounts.
It reaches even further into the shady area of people who buy and sell Twitter accounts in order to influence fandom.
I have been asked to sell my account from three big influencer accounts who are... the same person.
If I manage to write the article the way it should be written, a lot of things will clear up.

----------


## WontonGirl

> If you are talking about #PoisonIvyLeague, we never harassed or threatened anyone. In fact most of the creators people say we harass actually follow us and interact with us. 
> What I did find is that two or three specific accounts of "traditionalist" comic critics have taken screencaps of things, tweets, posts from trolls that either pretend are Ivy fans or attack me and my friends, fractions of a second after they got posted or deleted from Twitter. Which is too damn weird. 
> In fact it's weird enough for Twitter to remove one of these accounts who I suspected was creating fake profiles in order to create negative impressions about specific people.
> I'm researching about whether it's legal to post some stuff in an article considering they are private conversations and threats from people with big accounts.
> It reaches even further into the shady area of people who buy and sell Twitter accounts in order to influence fandom.
> I have been asked to sell my account from three big influencer accounts who are... the same person.
> If I manage to write the article the way it should be written, a lot of things will clear up.


I'm talking about anybody who is threatening people; fans or writers. And not necessary DC characters or writers, this is going on with more than just comics. People have too much access to other people via social media and they think they can just harass and control people. And if I was King, I would just block everybody with a broad stroke; from the "we are the good ones" to the hateful extremes. That would take care of that. But that is MY opinion. 

*As for you*, look. Continue to the good work that you are doing in regards to battling comic bullying and your academic research with these characters. That's great and fine. 

BUT for all that other stuff. No, I would give you the same advice. Delete and block them all. Maybe even some of your followers if you have too. Clean sweep. If they disagree with you, block em! If they are extreme, block em! If they say, _I like Ivy with Batman and you like her with Harley_, block em! LOL! Extreme times call for extreme measures. 

I mean, people making up accounts to harass you? That's not normal. Somebody did the same thing with King. It's not normal and you don't have to take it. It's okay to like fans and followers, but you are dealing with some extremes. No fictional character is worth it. NONE! 

And if necessary, delete your Twitter account. You don't owe Twitter nothing by having an account with them.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Barbatos666

All trolls and fanboys are bad and they are in the PIL as well as against PIL. No party can claim the moral high ground here.

----------


## Rac7d*

> No I think that it was what readers who are fans of Ivy as a complete hero or Anti-hero was expecting. 
> 
> If you think of Ivy as a Villain or Anti-Villain or "not so bad" Villain, or not necessarily as a "hero", then there was no surprise at what she did. Whether she "killed" the people or not.


Why does this keep happening to villains, the more popular they become they have to be desensitized 
Particularly female villains

----------


## WontonGirl

> Why does this keep happening to villains, the more popular they become they have to be desensitized 
> Particularly female villains


You know, I don't know. But it happens to Male villains too, all the time. *All the time.* Especially if the hero is in some kind of close relation to them or a friend circle. I see it with *Loki*. I saw it with *Klaus* on The Originals. I even saw it with *Captain Cold* on The Flash. We got it now with *Clayface*.  This happens, regardless of gender. 

I think people like the idea of the "not so bad" villain going good and teaming up with the "good guys" to take down the REAL BIG BAD.

Like back when the X-Men was the hot team in the movies, people loved looking at the flashbacks of when "Magneto and Xavier were friends". And so many movie fans were hoping that Magneto would "team up" with Xavier again. Because he couldn't be that bad if the Professor visited him and played Chess with him in jail right?

----------


## Darkspellmaster

> You know, I don't know. But it happens to Male villains too, all the time. *All the time.* Especially if the hero is in some kind of close relation to them or a friend circle. I see it with *Loki*. I saw it with *Klaus* on The Originals. I even saw it with *Captain Cold* on The Flash. We got it now with *Clayface*.  This happens, regardless of gender. 
> 
> I think people like the idea of the "not so bad" villain going good and teaming up with the "good guys" to take down the REAL BIG BAD.
> 
> Like back when the X-Men was the hot team in the movies, people loved looking at the flashbacks of when "Magneto and Xavier were friends". And so many movie fans were hoping that Magneto would "team up" with Xavier again. Because he couldn't be that bad if the Professor visited him and played Chess with him in jail right?


Clayface, Riddler, Catwoman, Black Cat, Loki, etc. I can see actually having a moral streak and turning over a new leaf. 

Ivy, Harley, Joker, Lex, let them remain bad. Sure you can have them reform, but good? No, I can see Ivy working as a Deathstroke like character in that she's in a black, gray area.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Clayface, Riddler, Catwoman, Black Cat, Loki, etc. I can see actually having a moral streak and turning over a new leaf. 
> 
> Ivy, Harley, Joker, Lex, let them remain bad. Sure you can have them reform, but good? No, I can see Ivy working as a Deathstroke like character in that she's in a black, gray area.


I think the environmentalism angle, her role in No Man's Land and her relationship with Harley lent themselves more naturally (no pun) to a more grayer area (even lighter than Deathstroke, who has had illicit sexual relationships with minors and oppressed his own children to an extent).

I've always been saying that Emma Frost of the 00's is the perfect standard for Ivy. Morally complex, can be pretty heroic at times, but has that edge that puts her squarely in the anti-heroine/anti-villain zone, more so than the likes of Catwoman, who is way more heroic than morally ambiguous.

----------


## WontonGirl

> Clayface, Riddler, Catwoman, Black Cat, Loki, etc. I can see actually having a moral streak and turning over a new leaf. 
> 
> Ivy, Harley, Joker, Lex, let them remain bad. Sure you can have them reform, but good? No, I can see Ivy working as a Deathstroke like character in that she's in a black, gray area.


It's tricky. I think, for me, Poison Ivy makes a great villain and a really good adversary to Batman.  :Smile:  She's great!

----------


## WontonGirl

> I think the environmentalism angle, her role in No Man's Land and her relationship with Harley lent themselves more naturally (no pun) to a more grayer area (even lighter than Deathstroke, who has had illicit sexual relationships with minors and oppressed his own children to an extent).
> 
> I've always been saying that Emma Frost of the 00's is the perfect standard for Ivy. Morally complex, can be pretty heroic at times, but has that edge that puts her squarely in the anti-heroine/anti-villain zone, more so than the likes of Catwoman, who is way more heroic than morally ambiguous.


I think that's also if you are familiar with the No Man's Land story. I have never even heard of that story until like 2015. I was a huge Mainstream Batman fan that had read a few comics and knew some big stories. And I still never heard of that story. And as far as her relationship with Harley. Well for me, that was based on BTAS and Harley was her sidekick. 

I think from a lot of mainstreams or casual fans point of view; Ivy is a villain. Not a _"I hate her"_ villain but one of the greats in Batman's Rogue Gallery. And she tends to stay in that gallery. And she's a great character that I always look for in mainstream adaptations of Batman related stuff.  :Big Grin:  

If some people like her as a Villain, let them. Just like if some people like her as a Anti-Villain or a Anti-Hero, let them. Even if some people like her as a Hero, let them. As long as they are not disrespecting the character or calling her negative names, it's cool.

----------


## Agent Z

Let Her Grow: The Importance of Poison Ivy's Heroic Journey.


http://womenwriteaboutcomics.com/201...eroic-journey/

----------


## Confuzzled

> I think that's also if you are familiar with the No Man's Land story. I have never even heard of that story until like 2015. I was a huge Mainstream Batman fan that had read a few comics and knew some big stories. And I still never heard of that story. And as far as her relationship with Harley. Well for me, that was based on BTAS and Harley was her sidekick. 
> 
> I think from a lot of mainstreams or casual fans point of view; Ivy is a villain. Not a _"I hate her"_ villain but one of the greats in Batman's Rogue Gallery. And she tends to stay in that gallery. And she's a great character that I always look for in mainstream adaptations of Batman related stuff.  
> 
> If some people like her as a Villain, let them. Just like if some people like her as a Anti-Villain or a Anti-Hero, let them. Even if some people like her as a Hero, let them. As long as they are not disrespecting the character or calling her negative names, it's cool.


I thought No Man's Land was a big deal? It did influence quite a few Ivy stories and appearances in the early to mid 00's where she was primarily about protecting her orphan children. Even the original Harley Quinn solo had her based in Robinson Park and be less traditionally evil.

Just like with Harley, I think some Batman cartoons will always feature Ivy in the "Villain of the Week" category. Ditto for video games making her a boss. Her OP powers suit her to be an opponent vs. being the player's avatar like less powered/street characters like the Batfamily or Catwoman. It's the reason we've never actually had a good Superman or Wonder Woman game. So fans of Traditional Villain Ivy will always get their share's worth.

----------


## WontonGirl

> I thought No Man's Land was a big deal? It did influence quite a few Ivy stories and appearances in the early to mid 00's where she was primarily about protecting her orphan children. Even the original Harley Quinn solo had her based in Robinson Park and be less traditionally evil.
> 
> Just like with Harley, I think some Batman cartoons will always feature Ivy in the "Villain of the Week" category. Ditto for video games making her a boss. Her OP powers suit her to be an opponent vs. being the player's avatar like less powered/street characters like the Batfamily or Catwoman. It's the reason we've never actually had a good Superman or Wonder Woman game. So fans of Traditional Villain Ivy will always get their share's worth.


I mean the big stories that most mainstream and casual fans know about. Stories like The Killing Joke, Watchmen, Year One, For The Man Who Has Everything, The Long Halloween, HUSH, The Return of Barry Allen, Death of Superman, etc. 

I think stories like NML are kind of on the same lines as Mad Love; stories that are huge within the comic book reading crowd. 

As far as Ivy goes. I think what it comes down to is the debate of comic book fans vs. mainstream. That's what it really comes down to. Because a comic book fan may see the changes she had gone through. But mainstream and casual fans, perhaps they have not. But if a person likes Ivy as a Rogue, then cool. If some people like Ivy as an anti-hero, then fine.

People like what they are used to and if they read more stories and find out more about her then they will either change their minds OR stay the same. And it's cool. She doesn't need to be compared to any other character or timeline. She is a great character all on her own.

----------


## Confuzzled

Tasia Valenza (VA for Ivy in the Arkham and Injustice games) interview on voicing Poison Ivy and why she loves her:

https://soundcloud.com/batforceradio...enza-interview

----------


## buck135

> Let Her Grow: The Importance of Poison Ivy's Heroic Journey.
> 
> 
> http://womenwriteaboutcomics.com/201...eroic-journey/


Beautifully written. I will say that in regards to Hush, I love that no man "or woman" (or alien!) is immune to Ivy. Ms. Rosen's comment regarding her motivation being money having made more sense if she just captivated a bank teller had me laughing out loud. 

As far as Batgirl: Birds of Prey, it's my understanding that sales have been underwhelming which is why Ivy was added. I have purchased every issue featuring Ivy (and will continue to do so). Ivy's on the variant cover of next weeks issue, but she's in the shadows unfortunately.

----------


## WontonGirl

I read the article. I learned quite a bit and I will check out those some of those stories. A few of those stories I read, I think I might have to read again because I didn't the same impression the author got on a couple of them.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I read the article. I learned quite a bit and I will check out those some of those stories. A few of those stories I read, I think I might have to read again because I didn't the same impression the author got on a couple of them.


If you read them out of order then you will understandably miss a few things but Ms. Rosen is right in that all of those New 52 and Rebirth stories do make references to the stories and developments for Pam that came before them. As touched upon in the article, they've tried to have a redemption arc for her since No Man's Land in one capacity or the other. But a few creators (*cough cough* Paul Dini *cough*) love portraying her as a stonecold villain so their stories go against that flow, which gives the impression to fans who are not that into comics that she is still as villainous and the more morally complex tales are the exception.

----------


## WontonGirl

> If you read them out of order then you will understandably miss a few things but Ms. Rosen is right in that all of those New 52 and Rebirth stories do make references to the stories and developments for Pam that came before them. As touched upon in the article, they've tried to have a redemption arc for her since No Man's Land in one capacity or the other. But a few creators (*cough cough* Paul Dini *cough*) love portraying her as a stonecold villain so their stories go against that flow, which gives the impression to fans who are not that into comics that she is still as villainous and the more morally complex tales are the exception.


How about people let the fans read the articles and let them draw their own conclusions?

----------


## rosenrose

> I read the article. I learned quite a bit and I will check out those some of those stories. A few of those stories I read, I think I might have to read again because I didn't the same impression the author got on a couple of them.


Just as a note. My opinion starts a bit right after the Tula Lotay art and is essentially the last three paragraphs. The rest article are the opinions and intentions of the writers. In order for this to happen I had to also read interviews, ask questions, have people ask questions at cons, social media interactions, DMs. Especially for the Scott Snyder ASB story mr Snyder directly told me which things to notice in the story so I can make better sense of it and wher it stands for Ivy's development. 
But all this work had to be presented as an article so I had to tweak it so it makes sense. It's not an opinion piece but rather a way solve the puzzle. Of ourse there are more stories I could have posted but I wanted to focus on things I could 1000000% verify. 

It's a response to all these clickbait youtube video producers who say "women don't read comics" or "don't know XYZ characters history". So I researched and worked on this. Anyone can ask any of the writers mentioned about the things I mention and they will agree. 

My hope is that this will be an inspiration and a start for a creative discussion on characters.

I'm very happy with the final result and I hope you guys like it. 

A huge thank again to WWAC. Very high quality articles with attention in detail. 

I have a few other things currently in development but verifying the facts, asking questions, small interviews etc take time and usually happen during big cons by friends so they will take a while.

----------


## Confuzzled

> How about people let the fans read the articles and let them draw their own conclusions?


"People" cannot make fans interpret anything they don't want to interpret. I am just saying that the article is correct in that those stories refer to each other and attempt at having a continuous arc for Ivy, which could be missed when read out of order (I'm not condescending to you over it, I read them out of order too, like Gail Simone's _Batgirl Annual #2_ before  Duane S's last _Birds of Prey_ arc featuring Pamela, which was why I didn't instantly make the connection in Simone's story regarding Pam's betrayal of the Birds and Babs).

I am not forcing conclusions on you, I was just saying you could have missed something like I did. But it's fine if you didn't miss anything and want to stick to your conclusions regardless. Sorry, maybe I should have been clearer on that part.

----------


## WontonGirl

> Just as a note. My opinion starts a bit right after the Tula Lotay art and is essentially the last three paragraphs. The rest article are the opinions and intentions of the writers. In order for this to happen I had to also read interviews, ask questions, have people ask questions at cons, social media interactions, DMs. Especially for the Scott Snyder ASB story mr Snyder directly told me which things to notice in the story so I can make better sense of it and wher it stands for Ivy's development. 
> But all this work had to be presented as an article so I had to tweak it so it makes sense. It's not an opinion piece but rather a way solve the puzzle. Of ourse there are more stories I could have posted but I wanted to focus on things I could 1000000% verify. 
> 
> It's a response to all these clickbait youtube video producers who say "women don't read comics" or "don't know XYZ characters history". So I researched and worked on this. Anyone can ask any of the writers mentioned about the things I mention and they will agree. 
> 
> My hope is that this will be an inspiration and a start for a creative discussion on characters.
> 
> I'm very happy with the final result and I hope you guys like it. 
> 
> ...


Please send us the links to all the articles and scholarly interpretations. Or you can even PM me with links to your stories and blogs. I would love to have some deeper discussions regarding these characters. And not just Ivy but I have a list of characters that I would love to read more stuff about in more of this vein.

Keep up the good work and remember my advice about blocking the haters  :Wink:

----------


## WontonGirl

> "People" cannot make fans interpret anything they don't want to interpret. I am just saying that the article is correct in that those stories refer to each other and attempt at having a continuous arc for Ivy, which could be missed when read out of order (I'm not condescending to you over it, I read them out of order too, like Gail Simone's _Batgirl Annual #2_ before  Duane S's last _Birds of Prey_ arc featuring Pamela, which was why I didn't instantly make the connection in Simone's story regarding Pam's betrayal of the Birds and Babs).
> 
> I am not forcing conclusions on you, I was just saying you could have missed something like I did. But it's fine if you didn't miss anything and want to stick to your conclusions regardless. Sorry, maybe I should have been clearer on that part.


YOU are the one that is assuming that I read anything out of order or that I want to stick to my conclusions, You did that. 

I just didn't come to comic books in 2015 and I'm not a novice when it comes to Poison Ivy. Some of those stories I've read before. I was just saying that when I read them back then, I had a different opinion than what the author had. So I'm going to re-read them, to see them with a different perspective. If anything that is NOT sticking to my conclusions.

----------


## rosenrose

This is one of the best (probably the best one IMO) article on Poison Ivy by two good friends.
http://www.nerdspan.com/poison-ivy-a...ife-and-death/
They also put a lot of time and effort for this. They also have an excellent analysis of Greg Rucka's Lazarus series (an incredible book).
A friend is also planning a book (yes, an actual book) about everything Ivy related in terms of merchandise etc. I will post updates if you want. I think it will be incredible for Ivy to get a detailed guide on her merch. Great work from an awesome #PoisonIvyLeague member.

And many more bits and pieces. I'll try to keep you updated.
I.e this just came in while I'm writing this
Despite the solicits not mentioning Ivy in BoP, she will be back in the book.

----------


## Confuzzled

> YOU are the one that is assuming that I read anything out of order or that I want to stick to my conclusions, You did that. 
> 
> I just didn't come to comic books in 2015 and I'm not a novice when it comes to Poison Ivy. Some of those stories I've read before. I was just saying that when I read them back then, I had a different opinion than what the author had. So I'm going to re-read them, to see them with a different perspective. If anything that is NOT sticking to my conclusions.


Then why reply "how about let fans draw their own conclusions" to my original post? (a sentiment I don't necessarily disagree with btw) And the first word in that post of mine was "If", meaning I wasn't assuming you read it out of order, just explained the possibility of why those themes may not have come across as clearly in case you did not read those stories chronologically.

----------


## Confuzzled

> This is one of the best (probably the best one IMO) article on Poison Ivy by two good friends.
> http://www.nerdspan.com/poison-ivy-a...ife-and-death/
> They also put a lot of time and effort for this. They also have an excellent analysis of Greg Rucka's Lazarus series (an incredible book).
> A friend is also planning a book (yes, an actual book) about everything Ivy related in terms of merchandise etc. I will post updates if you want. I think it will be incredible for Ivy to get a detailed guide on her merch. Great work from an awesome #PoisonIvyLeague member.
> 
> And many more bits and pieces. I'll try to keep you updated.
> I.e this just came in while I'm writing this
> Despite the solicits not mentioning Ivy in BoP, she will be back in the book.


That's a great article indeed. I had linked it here a while back too. That opening paragraph couldn't be more perfect in summing up the potent and age old appeal of Ivy's character. The fact that she encompasses so many fascinating subjects though does explain why she means so many different things to so many different people, which is why her fanbase can be so divided at times when they have disagreements over what the "Ideal Ivy" should be like.

----------


## MajorHoy

Just recently picked up a copy of *Joker's Asylum: Poison Ivy* (one-shot) from back in 2008 for $1.00 in the back-issue bins at a comic book shop.



Guillem March's artwork was nice, but the story by J.T. Krul was . . . _meh_.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Just recently picked up a copy of *Joker's Asylum: Poison Ivy* (one-shot) from back in 2008 for $1.00 in the back-issue bins at a comic book shop.
> 
> 
> 
> Guillem March's artwork was nice, but the story by J.T. Krul was . . . _meh_.


Lol @ this plot. It was as if an Ivy story were assigned to a writer who just knew the basics about her, remembered that Uma Thurman played both her and _Kill Bill_'s The Bride on the big screen, and then shamelessly and lazily took the plot of The Bride keeping a list of her victims/crossing them out after killing them, and used it for Ivy. It's stories such as these that made me bored of Ivy being murderous and "pure evil". 

That art though was indeed gorgeous and the intro to Guillem March's Poison Ivy. Whenever a comic or comic book movie related article wants to include an image of Ivy from the comics, odds are incredibly high that it is one of March's. He was just that good (though not a personal fave when it comes to Ivy artists, but that's probably due to the fact that I'm not as big a fan of green skinned Ivy which was the mandate at the time).

----------


## GamerSlyRatchet

The commercial for the second half of the season of _Gotham_ has the first sneak peek of Peyton List as Ivy towards the end.

----------


## Frontier

> The commercial for the second half of the season of _Gotham_ has the first sneak peek of Peyton List as Ivy towards the end.


I can't tell if her hair's red or if it's just the lighting  :Stick Out Tongue: .

Oh and _now_ when she's aged even more she kisses Bruce. Is he even 18 yet? I feel like that's kind of problematic given there's even more of an age difference now.

----------


## darkeyes

I like it, at least Ivy is showing some confidence now.  I look forward to her becoming a more central character now.

----------


## buck135

If Disney buys Fox, will this show even exist anymore?

----------


## WontonGirl

> If Disney buys Fox, will this show even exist anymore?


Why would it not?

Are you talking about what they are talking about in this article? 

https://www.thewrap.com/fox-broadcas...n-gary-newman/

----------


## buck135

> Why would it not?
> 
> Are you talking about what they are talking about in this article? 
> 
> https://www.thewrap.com/fox-broadcas...n-gary-newman/


No just watching that promo, I just thought that the Joker character doesn't exactly work with Disney's image.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I can't tell if her hair's red or if it's just the lighting .
> 
> Oh and _now_ when she's aged even more she kisses Bruce. Is he even 18 yet? I feel like that's kind of problematic given there's even more of an age difference now.


Maybe it will be a very subtle and dark shade of red? I dunno.

Anyway yeah, kissing Lil Bruce is too much. It seems like the showrunners want to avoid criticisms of involving a woman who is still mentally a small girl with an adult man, so they ran to the other extreme and inadvertently ended up with an adult woman actress kissing a little boy. Wacky show, why didn't they just introduce a whole new adult Poison Ivy if they wanted her grown up instead of creating the most awkward character arc in television history? 




> No just watching that promo, I just thought that the Joker character doesn't exactly work with Disney's image.


I think one of the reasons Disney is acquiring Fox is so that they have a separate division that can produce more adult content. It used to be Touchstone Pictures before this, but Fox is a much more known brand. 

I think the bigger issue could that this is a show by DC, the biggest competitor of one of Disney's own major brands. The network could drop Gotham but it could always go to The CW (like Supergirl) or DC's new streaming service (like Young Justice).

----------


## PwrdOn

Seriously, fuck Disney.  Having X-Men and FF in the MCU cannot possibly be worth creating an all-encompassing media monopoly that holds licenses to just about everything ever created in perpetuity.

----------


## WontonGirl

> Seriously, fuck Disney.  Having X-Men and FF in the MCU cannot possibly be worth creating an all-encompassing media monopoly that holds licenses to just about everything ever created in perpetuity.


Well said! This is getting ridiculous.

----------


## TheCape

That mouse is going to dominate all us  :Frown:

----------


## sakuyamons

> That mouse is going to dominate all us


Yeah  :Frown: 

But hopefully WB will fight for Gotham, it’s bat-related after all.

----------


## MajorHoy

> Seriously, fuck Disney. Having X-Men and FF in the MCU cannot possibly be worth creating an all-encompassing media monopoly that holds licenses to just about everything ever created in perpetuity.


Uh, I don't think DC is going to necessarily be swallowed up Disney/Marvel. Even if Fox keeps producing the _Gotham_ TV show, it doesn't mean Disney/Marvel suddenly *owns* the Bat-family, nor does it likely mean that Disney/Marvel has licensing rights to make any Batman movies or TV shows that it bloody well pleases, thankyouverymuch. I doubt WB/DC made a deal with Fox to license _Gotham_ that was anywhere near as stupid/desperate as the one Marvel once made to license the FF and X-Men for films/video all those years ago.

----------


## buck135

> Uh, I don't think DC is going to necessarily be swallowed up Disney/Marvel. Even if Fox keeps producing the _Gotham_ TV show, it doesn't mean Disney/Marvel suddenly *owns* the Bat-family, nor does it likely mean that Disney/Marvel has licensing rights to make any Batman movies or TV shows that it bloody well pleases, thankyouverymuch. I doubt WB/DC made a deal with Fox to license _Gotham_ that was anywhere near as stupid/desperate as the one Marvel once made to license the FF and X-Men for films/video all those years ago.


As part of the deal to remaster and release the '60's TV show on DVD/blu-ray, Fox was able to produce and air Gotham. They own the rights to Gotham as well as the 60's TV show and movie. If this merger happens, Disney will own them. 

I recall several Star Wars shows and video games were permanently shelved once Lucasfilm was sold to Mickey which is why I wonder about the fate of Gotham.

----------


## Deadly Garden

I just bought one of my Christmas gifts. It's a 1:10 scale statue by ArtFX (Kotobukiya). A nice, straightforward depiction of the late 90s Poison Ivy. It retails for usually under $75. The leaf wrap is removable.

IMG_0010.jpg

----------


## WontonGirl

That looks so cool! I tend to like this outfit the best  :Big Grin:

----------


## rosenrose

For anyone interested this is a small review of the Silent Screams Poison ivy story from the New Talent Showcase.
https://wearepoisonivyleague.tumblr....hts-new-talent

Mr Goingback also clears up the reason why Ivy "doesn't care about the kids".

----------


## WontonGirl

> For anyone interested this is a small review of the Silent Screams Poison ivy story from the New Talent Showcase.
> https://wearepoisonivyleague.tumblr....hts-new-talent
> 
> Mr Goingback also clears up the reason why Ivy "doesn't care about the kids".


It was a cool review. I also went to the author's Twitter page and he is promoting his story very heavily.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I just bought one of my Christmas gifts. It's a 1:10 scale statue by ArtFX (Kotobukiya). A nice, straightforward depiction of the late 90s Poison Ivy. It retails for usually under $75. The leaf wrap is removable.
> 
> IMG_0010.jpg


She's perfectly lovely.




> For anyone interested this is a small review of the Silent Screams Poison ivy story from the New Talent Showcase.
> https://wearepoisonivyleague.tumblr....hts-new-talent
> 
> Mr Goingback also clears up the reason why Ivy "doesn't care about the kids".


Neat review!

----------


## Osiris-Rex

> Uh, I don't think DC is going to necessarily be swallowed up Disney/Marvel. Even if Fox keeps producing the _Gotham_ TV show, it doesn't mean Disney/Marvel suddenly *owns* the Bat-family, nor does it likely mean that Disney/Marvel has licensing rights to make any Batman movies or TV shows that it bloody well pleases, thankyouverymuch. I doubt WB/DC made a deal with Fox to license _Gotham_ that was anywhere near as stupid/desperate as the one Marvel once made to license the FF and X-Men for films/video all those years ago.


Fox doesn't produce Gotham.  DC Entertainment and Warner Bros. Television produces Gotham. And Warner Bros. Television Distribution distributes Gotham. Fox just airs original episodes.
DC and WB own all rights to the show and the characters. WB's only agreement with Fox was that WB would only air the Batman characters on Gotham.  And that Oliver Queen was allowed
to talk about Bruce Wayne on Arrow means that it isn't totally iron clad. Plus it was Warner Bros., not Fox, that sold the video rights for Gotham to Netflix.

----------


## buck135

> Fox doesn't produce Gotham.  DC Entertainment and Warner Bros. Television produces Gotham. And Warner Bros. Television Distribution distributes Gotham. Fox just airs original episodes.
> DC and WB own all rights to the show and the characters. WB's only agreement with Fox was that WB would only air the Batman characters on Gotham.  And that Oliver Queen was allowed
> to talk about Bruce Wayne on Arrow means that it isn't totally iron clad. Plus it was Warner Bros., not Fox, that sold the video rights for Gotham to Netflix.


Thanks, I didn't know that. Fox does however own the '60's Batman show and movie though, right?

----------


## WontonGirl

New pic of *Poison Ivy* from Batman, Issue #41. Ivy's arc is Issues #41-43.  :Embarrassment: 

DQx9rQTVoAA3wQO.jpg

----------


## buck135

Thanks for the pic WontonGirl. I'm not a fan of the New 52 suit, but that won't discourage me from picking these up.  :Smile:

----------


## Frontier

> New pic of *Poison Ivy* from Batman, Issue #41. Ivy's arc is Issues #41-43. 
> 
> DQx9rQTVoAA3wQO.jpg


And the constant shuffling of Ivy looks/costumes continues  :Stick Out Tongue: .

----------


## WontonGirl

Hey are any of you guys following the *Harley* & *Ivy* meet *Betty* & *Veronica* comics that just started?

----------


## WontonGirl

> Thanks for the pic WontonGirl. I'm not a fan of the New 52 suit, but that won't discourage me from picking these up.


On Tom King's post, some fans posted their own color variations of the pic as well. They are pretty cool.

----------


## buck135

> Hey are any of you guys following the *Harley* & *Ivy* meet *Betty* & *Veronica* comics that just started?


I have the first three (with their respective variants). The artwork is terrific and the story has been okay thus far. I'm with everyone else here in that I want to see Ivy break free of Harley.

----------


## WontonGirl

> I have the first three (with their respective variants). The artwork is terrific and the story has been okay thus far. I'm with everyone else here in that I want to see Ivy break free of Harley.


Yeah, it's time. It's been time but I feel like when she's with Harley, she's dumbed down or she's doesn't seem as mature. I don't know how to explain it.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Yeah, it's time. It's been time but I feel like when she's with Harley, she's dumbed down or she's doesn't seem as mature. I don't know how to explain it.


Yeah, I was initially interested in Harley & Ivy because I thought Ivy would help Harley become more intelligent and complex. But the opposite has been true and Ivy becomes more simplistic and cartoony whenever she's paired with Clown Girl. Sigh.

----------


## sakuyamons

> Yeah, it's time. It's been time but I feel like when she's with Harley, she's dumbed down or she's doesn't seem as mature. I don't know how to explain it.


I think that it depends, on the Harley comic she is definitely dumbed down/flanderized, but when written by others? She's definitely the mature friend...not that it is not difficult considering Harley's personality. 

I'd dig Ivy back to her villian roots, working essentially as a solo with occasionally allying herself with Riddler, Batman & Selina, and Harley from time to time.

----------


## sakuyamons

> Yeah, I was initially interested in Harley & Ivy because I thought Ivy would help Harley become more intelligent and complex. But the opposite has been true and Ivy becomes more simplistic and cartoony whenever she's paired with Clown Girl. Sigh.


Eh, I wouldn't say Harley is complex, but she is intelligent in her own ways. The thing is that we rarely see Ivy in a situation where wits are needed anymore.

----------


## Confuzzled

> And the constant shuffling of Ivy looks/costumes continues .


Lol when we were so close to being rid of that suit forever. Gorgeous artwork though. Pumped for this story.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Eh, I wouldn't say Harley is complex, but she is intelligent in her own ways. The thing is that we rarely see Ivy in a situation where wits are needed anymore.


Yeah, that's what I meant. I thought they would be put in situations where they need to use their wits, intelligence and also display emotional maturity. Instead, 98% of the time all we get is Saturday morning cartoony hijinks. That's fine for an actual kid's cartoon like _Justice League Action_, but silly and boring when written in media directed at adults.

----------


## Frontier

I never really expect much from Ivy in Harley's book because, from what I've seen, it's become such a raunchy, low-brow, comedy book that hoping for meaningful or complex character work is an exercise in futility. 

Of course, in comics, that's mostly where the pairing has been relegated to so there definitely isn't much room for it to grow or develop from there. 



> Yeah, that's what I meant. I thought they would be put in situations where they need to use their wits, intelligence and also display emotional maturity. Instead, 98% of the time all we get is Saturday morning cartoony hijinks. That's fine for an actual kid's cartoon like _Justice League Action_, but silly and boring when written in media directed at adults.


At least in _Justice League Action_ they're equal partners-in-crime, so it's not like one is really being used to prop up the other or it's a pairing that's coming at Ivy's expense. It's also not like they're attached at the hip, since Ivy's made a few appearances without Harley (and vice-versa). 

Heck, speaking of her JLA appearances, I'd say Ivy has had some impressive feats, managing to fend off some of the League's heavy hitters, forming her own league of female Supervillains, and even managing to have Batman completely under her sway in one Webisode. 

All the while looking _fabulous_. 



(I'm really going to miss this show).

----------


## WontonGirl

> I think that it depends, on the Harley comic she is definitely dumbed down/flanderized, but when written by others? She's definitely the mature friend...not that it is not difficult considering Harley's personality. 
> 
> I'd dig Ivy back to her villian roots, working essentially as a solo with occasionally allying herself with Riddler, Batman & Selina, and Harley from time to time.


Yes I thought about Ivy working with the Riddler too before. And they all are working together in White Knight. All the Rouges I mean. It's like a Rogue party in that book, LOL! 

And interestly enough, Harley is portrayed as extremely smart, not silly or clownish. Much more mature as the girlfriend of Jack Napier.

----------


## WontonGirl

This is a darn shame that this man had to Tweet this out, again! 

https://twitter.com/TomKingTK/status/940959722836054016

----------


## buck135

> This is a darn shame that this man had to Tweet this out, again! 
> 
> https://twitter.com/TomKingTK/status/940959722836054016


Good grief people are goofy. When will people appreciate each other's differences as well as their similarities? Is it hard to just stick to what we like and make polite suggestions when we disagree?

----------


## WontonGirl

> Good grief people are goofy. When will people appreciate each other's differences as well as their similarities? Is it hard to just stick to what we like and make polite suggestions when we disagree?


Apparently it's not. It seems like what is going on is that there are 2 groups; the ones that like Ivy as a villain and the ones that like Ivy as a Hero. 

But the problem seems to be that you got people attacking and harassing other Ivy fans because they think differently OR you also got other fans that are coming in defense of King as well, and he is not tolerating both. You got the some harnessers sending threats and rape threats, etc. And that should not be tolerated under *no* circumstances. And so rightly so, he is coming in defense of them and that was good. 

But you got the Hero fans that keep sending Tom articles and harassing him because they want him to write Ivy as a Hero. And the thing is, some of the Hero fans that are getting harassed, I don't think they realize they are harassing or bothering Tom when they do that. 

It's a mess! I didn't know it was this bad. Sending hate tweets and rape tweets, that needs to be taken up with Twitter.

----------


## buck135

> Apparently it's not. It seems like what is going on is that there are 2 groups; the ones that like Ivy as a villain and the ones that like Ivy as a Hero. 
> 
> But the problem seems to be that you got people attacking and harassing other Ivy fans because they think differently OR you also got other fans that are coming in defense of King as well, and he is not tolerating both. You got the some harnessers sending threats and rape threats, etc. And that should not be tolerated under *no* circumstances. And so rightly so, he is coming in defense of them and that was good. 
> 
> But you got the Hero fans that keep sending Tom articles and harassing him because they want him to write Ivy as a Hero. And the thing is, some of the Hero fans that are getting harassed, I don't think they realize they are harassing or bothering Tom when they do that. 
> 
> It's a mess! I didn't know it was this bad. Sending hate tweets and rape tweets, that needs to be taken up with Twitter.


That behavior is sickening. I feel for anyone who is on the receiving end of threats or violence of any kind. This and a couple of other boards are my only means of social media (if you want to call it that). What can I say, I'm old. It's naive of me to wish that most of social media would all go away since it seems to bring heartache to so many. 

As I've said here before, I prefer Ivy as a villain because she could obliterate Batman, Bane or all of Gotham for that matter if she wanted. Riddler, Penguin or Joker can't do that. I've also always been drawn to sirens and beautiful redheads.  :Smile:  I've seen comments that Ivy doesn't belong in Gotham because there isn't much green there. What do they think is under all of that concrete?  :Smile: 

I love that my favorite character is a woman. I identify with her despite being male. Growing up, most of the shows I watched didn't have strong female characters. This is why the success of the Wonder Woman film is so important. In summary as long as Ivy is written as the brilliant (and devastatingly dangerous) doctor that she has evolved into, I'm going to be pleased.

----------


## Frontier

> That behavior is sickening. I feel for anyone who is on the receiving end of threats or violence of any kind. This and a couple of other boards are my only means of social media (if you want to call it that). What can I say, I'm old. It's naive of me to wish that most of it would all go away since it seems to bring heartache to so many. 
> 
> As I've said here before, I prefer Ivy as a villain because she could obliterate Batman, Bane or all of Gotham for that matter if she wanted. Riddler, Penguin or Joker can't do that. I've also always been drawn to sirens and beautiful redheads.  I've seen comments that Ivy doesn't belong in Gotham because there isn't much green there. What do they think is under all of that concrete? 
> 
> I love that my favorite character is a woman. I identify with her despite being male. Growing up, most of the shows I watched didn't have strong female characters. This is why the success of Wonder Woman is so important. In summary as long as Ivy is written as the brilliant (and devastatingly dangerous) doctor that she has evolved into, I'm going to be pleased.


I think you summed it all up perfectly  :Smile: .

----------


## Assam

I know there's a small but vocal group who, while they'd normally be okay, if not happy, with Ivy not being shown in the most positive light, are furious because of what King has done before and after. Namely, the prior character ruination of Holly Robinson (One of DC's earliest prominent lesbians) and the following confirmation (Possible reaffirmation? I don't know) of Talia being bisexual before having her act as a villain and roadblock for Bruce and Selina, and combined with Ivy's portrayal, its lead them to believe that King is lesbaphobic. 

On a lighter and more positive note, Ivy got to team up with Cass. It may have happened in a _really_ crappy comic, but that instantly makes Ivy's coolness factor increase tenfold.

----------


## Frontier

> I know there's a small but vocal group who, while they'd normally be okay, if not happy, with Ivy not being shown in the most positive light, are furious because of what King has done before and after. Namely, the prior character ruination of Holly Robinson (One of DC's earliest prominent lesbians) and the following confirmation (Possible reaffirmation? I don't know) of Talia being bisexual before having her act as a villain and roadblock for Bruce and Selina, and combined with Ivy's portrayal, its lead them to believe that King is lesbaphobic.


Huh. Kind of reminds me of the though process that Brian Michael Bendis is uncomfortable with gay people because, even when they're in his book, he never writes them in relationships. 

(Although I don't think Talia was really a villain in her appearance and I'm one of those who wasn't really bothered by Ivy's portrayal in The War of Jokes and Riddles. Also Catwoman is now canonically bisexual and she's the female lead of the book).

----------


## buck135

> I think you summed it all up perfectly .


Thanks Frontier.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Apparently it's not. It seems like what is going on is that there are 2 groups; the ones that like Ivy as a villain and the ones that like Ivy as a Hero.


It's not that simple. There is an extra sect of "Alt Right"/gatekeeping trolls who among having many other issues, have a weird Madonna/Whore complex when it comes to female characters in comics, and women characters who don't fit into the morally right like Ivy are firmly labelled in the latter category by them, so oppose anything and everything that puts her in a more complex or positive light. 

These are the people who are particularly vicious towards any kind of change in comics that they perceive as progressive or "SJW". From what I've observed, they also don't target male Ivy fans but only the women fans on Twitter, by sending them pics of their privates (ew!) and making death/rape threats.

These extremists should not be grouped under "fans who like Ivy as a villain". There are folks on this forum and this thread who prefer Ivy as a villain but are very civil and respectful towards those who like a more anti-hero or heroic take on her so it's unfair to them that these creeps are painted with the same brush as them.

----------


## WontonGirl

Again, I think that the harassers and those sending threats of any kind should be reported to Twitter and have that handled there. Nobody should be doing that to another person on Social Media. *Those people are NOT fans, so I don't lump them in any fan group at all! 
*

Now, as far as the fans are concerned. It's not complicated at all. Their are fans who sees her as a Villain and enjoy seeing her in that mode. They enjoy those stories and that's that. Then there are those that see Ivy as a Hero or as an Anti-Hero. They enjoy seeing those stories and what to see more stories of "hero Ivy" and I get that. 

The source of conflict seems to be that if you don't write Ivy as a hero or anti-hero, then SOME will go in. Because again, in THEIR eyes, Ivy is not a Villain so they don't think she should be written as one. Whereas what Ivy did in WJR didn't bother a lot of fans or fans of Ivy if they view her as a villain because that kind of behavior was par for the course for Ivy.

----------


## WontonGirl

> I know there's a small but vocal group who, while they'd normally be okay, if not happy, with Ivy not being shown in the most positive light, are furious because of what King has done before and after. Namely, the prior character ruination of Holly Robinson (One of DC's earliest prominent lesbians) and the following confirmation (Possible reaffirmation? I don't know) of Talia being bisexual before having her act as a villain and roadblock for Bruce and Selina, and combined with Ivy's portrayal, its lead them to believe that King is lesbaphobic. 
> 
> On a lighter and more positive note, Ivy got to team up with Cass. It may have happened in a _really_ crappy comic, but that instantly makes Ivy's coolness factor increase tenfold.


But again, this is part of the issue or source of conflict; how people feel about Ivy. There are those who feel she is a hero or anti-hero SO if a writer doesn't show her as that, then they go in.

----------


## rosenrose

Tom King wrote a tweet about not harassing Ivy fans. And now I come here and see that the discussion is “why fans who like Ivy as hero are harassers”. 
Well no. Wonton you mention me sending one article in a very polite manner to King. Janin even liked it and signal boosted it. This is not harassment. This is not even criticism. King (or any other writer is not influenced by an article or a few comments). I think this is obvious at this point. Sending threats is harassment. Telling people that they will get beaten if they show up at cons is harassment. Sending d1ck picks is harassment. I’d like for once to see the other side take some kind of responsibility for this situation. Yesterday I was mourning the loss of a dear friend and had to deal with crap in my inbox and had to explain how I’m not a harasser to a bunch of accounts who portray me as Hitler. It’s not comparable. You can’t compare an article with a d1ck pick. 
So for once, listen to King and report this kind of behavior. If you like him as a writer and respect him as a person, listen to him and be civil and polite. You are not helping his work or “villain Ivy” if half of this “sides” posts are mental health mockery, alt right/nazi memes and gamer gate tactics.

----------


## WontonGirl

> Tom King wrote a tweet about not harassing Ivy fans. And now I come here and see that the discussion is “why fans who like Ivy as hero are harassers”. 
> Well no. Wonton you mention me sending one article in a very polite manner to King. Janin even liked it and signal boosted it. This is not harassment. This is not even criticism. King (or any other writer is not influenced by an article or a few comments). I think this is obvious at this point. Sending threats is harassment. Telling people that they will get beaten if they show up at cons is harassment. Sending d1ck picks is harassment. I’d like for once to see the other side take some kind of responsibility for this situation. Yesterday I was mourning the loss of a dear friend and had to deal with crap in my inbox and had to explain how I’m not a harasser to a bunch of accounts who portray me as Hitler. It’s not comparable. You can’t compare an article with a d1ck pick. 
> So for once, listen to King and report this kind of behavior. If you like him as a writer and respect him as a person, listen to him and be civil and polite. You are not helping his work or “villain Ivy” if half of this “sides” posts are mental health mockery, alt right/nazi memes and gamer gate tactics.


First off, sorry for the loss of your friend  :Frown: 

Second, *if I see something, I will report it.* There is no doubt about that. But again, the EXTREME threats, that needs to be reported to Twitter. I don't know who you are on Facebook or Twitter so I don't see the more personal extreme things that are happening to you and I am sorry that it is happening to you. But as I told you before just last week, REPORT THEM AND BLOCK THEM. I told YOU that personally. You don't have to take that mess. Irregardless of where it's coming from. I told you that *Rose*, _you don't have to take that_.  :Mad: 

Now as far as the other side taking responsibility. I am not a part of that world. *Again, if I see something, I will report it* BUT until YOU mentioned that this type of stuff was going on, I didn't know this was existing within the Ivy fandom. I just got into the social media aspect of these comics like maybe within the past year. Before that, I was on FB and Twitter pages of superhero TV shows that I watched and for whatever the latest Superhero movie that was coming out. I tend to follow Wonder Woman and Catwoman related things in mainstream media, academia and pop culture and that's was pretty much it. I didn't know there was a division in how Ivy fans saw her. 

I'm sorry the harassment is happening.

----------


## rosenrose

Just to be clear: I'm not trying to create negativity. But look at this: If you go to ie DC Superhero Girls Youtube page in the shorts that feature Ivy as a hero and a friend to the girls, you will see people bullying little girls in the comment section because they want her as a hero. I did a small research and just at one single video there were over 20 comments with people mocking 7-10 year old girls. Characters evolve and change. People are ok with Luthor, Clayface, Lobo, Frost and many more having huge heroic development arcs but the instant Ivy appears everyone is screaming that she should remain a villain. And then comes harassment and lies.
And it's frustrating and ridiculous at the same time. Because these are paper people. Not real. But I am real. Wanting to see a paper character as a hero is not the same as threatening and mocking people for wanting this. I don't understand why or how these two are even comparable. 

Villain Ivy fans: nobody is taking away your character. Don't worry. If there are sides in this (which I'd prefer they weren't). DC is on your side. King is on your side. Many more writers are on your side. So just leave a tiny little space for the ones who disagree and try to respect this disagreement. It's really not that hard.

----------


## GamerSlyRatchet

A clip from _Gotham by Gaslight_ featuring Ivy. I should warn there are *SPOILERS*.

----------


## Confuzzled

> A clip from _Gotham by Gaslight_ featuring Ivy. I should warn there are *SPOILERS*.


That's not even as spoilerish as the previous trailer  :Stick Out Tongue: 

Interesting to see Pam portrayed as a sex worker here. Usually that's Selina's thing. Also, this is definitely not the Poison Ivy from the _Gotham by Gaslight_ universe from the comics:

----------


## darkeyes

Oh noes!  Not Ivy!  I guess it was her turn to get pruned.

----------


## Frontier

> That's not even as spoilerish as the previous trailer 
> 
> Interesting to see Pam portrayed as a sex worker here. *Usually that's Selina's thing.* Also, this is definitely not the Poison Ivy from the _Gotham by Gaslight_ universe from the comics:


Well, she was canonically a prostitute (per _Year One_)...

----------


## Confuzzled

We have the first cover for the _Everybody Loves Ivy_ arc as well as solicitations for all three issues:






> BATMAN #42
> Written by TOM KING • Art and cover by MIKEL JANIN • Variant cover by OLIVIER COIPEL
> “Everyone Loves Ivy” part two! Poison Ivy has taken control of every man, woman and child on the planet, and only Batman and Catwoman have escaped her influence. But will the pair of them be enough to nip this in the bud?
> On sale MARCH 7 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US • RATED T
> 
> BATMAN #43
> Written by TOM KING • Art and cover by MIKEL JANIN • Variant cover by OLIVIER COIPEL
> “Everyone Loves Ivy” part three! The quest to end Ivy’s domination heads toward a close, but can Batman offer Ivy redemption on the other side of this crime? It’s an epic showdown between the Caped Crusader and one of his most popular foes, brought to you by the creative team behind “The War of Jokes and Riddles.”
> On sale MARCH 21 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US • RATED T


We still don't have the cover for Issue #41, the beginning of this arc, right?

----------


## Confuzzled

Tula Lotay cover for _Harley and Ivy Meet Betty and Veronica #6_

----------


## buck135

> We have the first cover for the _Everybody Loves Ivy_ arc as well as solicitations for all three issues.


Beautiful.  :Smile:

----------


## Frontier

> We have the first cover for the _Everybody Loves Ivy_ arc as well as solicitations for all three issues:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We still don't have the cover for Issue #41, the beginning of this arc, right?


Curious to see how King handles Ivy basically taking over the world and how he portrays her overall. 



> Tula Lotay cover for _Harley and Ivy Meet Betty and Veronica #6_


Love it. Lotay draws some lovely ladies.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Love it. Lotay draws some lovely ladies.


Yup. She had also drawn the cover for last week's Gotham City Garage #16 featuring Ivy (and Supergirl)



This is the interior design of Ivy in GCG btw

----------


## Frontier

> Yup. She had also drawn the cover for last week's Gotham City Garage #16 featuring Ivy (and Supergirl)
> 
> 
> 
> This is the interior design of Ivy in GCG btw


Shorts with the more traditional leaf leotard is an interesting fashion choice (though one that kind of makes sense for the setting).

----------


## Witchfan

Is Gotham City Sirens worth reading? Is Ivy green the whole time in it?

----------


## Osiris-Rex

> Is Gotham City Sirens worth reading? Is Ivy green the whole time in it?


I liked it. Starting in issue #11 Ivy gets a job at STAR Labs where she takes on the name of Dr. Paula Irving and has human colored skin but still has red hair. Then she sort of switches back and forth between
green and human.  For a while she even has dark grey skin.

----------


## buck135

A new Ivy Sideshow Collectibles statue has been teased. Photos and release date are forthcoming.

----------


## JudasFanny616

Snyder's Ivy issue in "End's of the Earth" story line is possibly my favorite comic issue of last year. She's such a great character.

----------


## Confuzzled

> A new Ivy Sideshow Collectibles statue has been teased. Photos and release date are forthcoming.


Cannot wait! 

Speaking of figures, a person from Japan tweeted photos of this BTAS one. I don't believe we have seen this one before, have we?



Face is off model here though.

----------


## darkeyes

Ivy eaglemoss 5.jpg

I love the pose on it, but her face is a bit off, unfortunately.  At least she is a larger scale than the regular Eaglemoss figures.  Here is a pic of all the Eagelmoss Ivy figures released.

----------


## Confuzzled

Sigh, the face did a number on what could have been perfection. The Bruce Timm art it's been based on has been around for quite some time btw

The other Eaglemoss figures look great though.

----------


## MentalManipulator

Selina, Pam and Harley as Gems in Steve's Universe. 

Gemsona-Maker-Sirens.jpg

----------


## PyroTwilight

Oh Ivy. She's one of the more fun "Bat" characters to me.

But it's always amused me at just how ranged her good and evil sides could be depending on the writer (in fairness who isn't that true of).


I do like the idea that though she was a militant environmentalist she eases off of the more violent stuff the longer she's around. Only really being a villain overall. I especially love when she's treated as outright heroic but mis aimed at times. 

So I like to think she's fine with occasionally hurting (but not killing) others to get what she wants. But that it's never something she'd outright go to do without being provoked.

----------


## Confuzzled

I think it's okay if she kills child rapists, abusers etc. because children like plants are vulnerable and that hits close to home to her considering her own (New 52) childhood. Her brief appearance in the _Gotham Central_ book where she kills the two corrupt cops who murdered one of her Robinson Park orphans (but only after confirming through an eyewitness that they were indeed the culprits) still remains very powerful.

----------


## PyroTwilight

Oh yeah. I think as far as things go killing the worst scum on the Earth, at least if you're sure of them is fine for Ivy in this completely fictional setting. 

Though knowing her she'd probably also be likely to do something far less permanent but MUCH more painful or tortuous to punish.

----------


## Tupiaz

I don't see Poison Ivy would have any problem killing people and thus turning them into compost to benefit the world/mother earth/nature especially if they where a part of a big company who was harmful to planet. Ivy is an extremist who would use extremist methods to save the planet. This including wiping out all people who makes a serve treat to the planet. Given the times she has a lot of unused potential.

----------


## PyroTwilight

I mean if she's a full on villain I think that works as a thing for her to do. 

But it ultimately runs counter to how she is in the modern day, as she's usually portrayed in much more of a grey area now. 

Plus from a writing point of view (and honestly real life) it makes her too flat of a character. Especially since "Kill the leader of a group who's poisoning the environment" etc or some other similar loathsome person isn't really final to any degree. there'll always be another logging company or group trying gto clear up space for themselves. Her being WILLING to kill is fine. Her using it as the go to (and Ivy does tend to in stories that want to go that way) is a bit pointless as it technically should just create backlash that HURTS her cause more than helps. 

Plus I would be interested if there's ever a story that points out that technically the big reason  we don't want to damage the environment ISN'T to protect the ENVIRONMENT. But that WITHOUT IT humans can't survive. The planet itself, the environment, is ultimately able to adapt over anything really. It's just that adaptation is likely to wipe out humans and current life (plant, human, etc). 

So I've thought for a while the best way to handle something like Ivy to essentially up the "goddess" side of her. She's trying to help the environment (mostly plants) because she doesn't want the world to sink into destruction and views the everyday humans who do it as idiots she has to help rather than "enemies".

----------


## Frontier



----------


## Tupiaz

> I mean if she's a full on villain I think that works as a thing for her to do. 
> 
> But it ultimately runs counter to how she is in the modern day, as she's usually portrayed in much more of a grey area now. 
> 
> Plus from a writing point of view (and honestly real life) it makes her too flat of a character. Especially since "Kill the leader of a group who's poisoning the environment" etc or some other similar loathsome person isn't really final to any degree. there'll always be another logging company or group trying gto clear up space for themselves. Her being WILLING to kill is fine. Her using it as the go to (and Ivy does tend to in stories that want to go that way) is a bit pointless as it technically should just create backlash that HURTS her cause more than helps. 
> 
> Plus I would be interested if there's ever a story that points out that technically the big reason  we don't want to damage the environment ISN'T to protect the ENVIRONMENT. But that WITHOUT IT humans can't survive. The planet itself, the environment, is ultimately able to adapt over anything really. It's just that adaptation is likely to wipe out humans and current life (plant, human, etc). 
> 
> So I've thought for a while the best way to handle something like Ivy to essentially up the "goddess" side of her. She's trying to help the environment (mostly plants) because she doesn't want the world to sink into destruction and views the everyday humans who do it as idiots she has to help rather than "enemies".


Sure for human we want to protect the environment so we can live. Form Ivy's viewpoint the world could just fine without humans. I could see an Ivy story where she did target people who was a threat for the environment. What makes Ivy a villain is her action and careless for other humans putting plants/nature above humans. To have her questioned this philosophy is where you can make good stories. Here she would be able to be more nuanced and balanced as a character. I see Ivy wanting to save the world so nature can survive more so than humans can survives which in this day and age make her interesting. 

Also you can have planets who previously had an environment but now doesn't. Mars seams to be such an example where life previous have or at least could have existed but now is just a dessert where no environment is happening.

----------


## Rac7d*

> I don't see Poison Ivy would have any problem killing people and thus turning them into compost to benefit the world/mother earth/nature especially if they where a part of a big company who was harmful to planet. Ivy is an extremist who would use extremist methods to save the planet. This including wiping out all people who makes a serve treat to the planet. Given the times she has a lot of unused potential.


But she doesn care about people, as her mutation evolves she less associates herself with humanity, therefore a human life means nothing to her she is dangerous

----------


## Confuzzled

> Sure for human we want to protect the environment so we can live. Form Ivy's viewpoint the world could just fine without humans.





> But she doesn care about people, as her mutation evolves she less associates herself with humanity, therefore a human life means nothing to her she is dangerous


But Nature doesn't behave that way. Without humans (and animals), many current plant species that she is sworn to protect will go extinct too without the ecological balance. There will be new species but they will be something else. It's a bit like losing your "own people" in a bid to wipe out your "enemy". Even if she strictly sympathises with only plants (though I find that less interesting than her being torn between her human and "nature" sides), she would know that full out genocide is not going to result well for the plant kingdom as well.

----------


## Rac7d*

> But Nature doesn't behave that way. Without humans (and animals), many current plant species that she is sworn to protect will go extinct too without the ecological balance. There will be new species but they will be something else. It's a bit like losing your "own people" in a bid to wipe out your "enemy". Even if she strictly sympathises with only plants (though I find that less interesting than her being torn between her human and "nature" sides), she would know that full out genocide is not going to result well for the plant kingdom as well.


yes that is why she is crazy her mad logic doesnt make any sense and why she has to be put down by the batman all the time

----------


## Confuzzled

> yes that is why she is crazy her mad logic doesnt make any sense and why she has to be put down by the batman all the time


She should know the facts as she's supposed to be a scientist. At least in the case of someone like Crane, they are just sadistic so they employ their knowledge for terrible purposes. Ivy is supposed to protect the ecosystem so she cannot have faulty logic that _directly goes against her cause_.

----------


## PyroTwilight

Granted knowing Ivy and the weird science of comics she probably COULD make it so that only plants survive something that would wipe out all other life, and have them continue to do so (as logic defying as that is).

----------


## Confuzzled

> Granted knowing Ivy and the weird science of comics she probably COULD make it so that only plants survive something that would wipe out all other life, and have them continue to do so (as logic defying as that is).


The movie had her create a new species of mutant plants to survive in Freeze's nuclear winter apocalypse, but that would mean the total wipeout of Earth's _current_ ecology, which I don't think Comics Ivy would stand for.

Also, do we need to take cues from _Batman and Robin_ of all places?  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Confuzzled

An impressive ranking of Poison Ivy adaptations:




This was done last March so some of the latest ones are missing like _Justice League Action_, _The Lego Batman Movie_ and _Batman and Harley Quinn_. They also missed out on three: _Justice League_ animated show (well, if _Static Shock_ and _Gotham Girls_ count as separate), _DC Super Friends_, and _DC Nation: Super BFF's_!, but otherwise I think they got them all (though _Young Justice_ has been mislabelled as "Batman: Dark Tomorrow")

Seeing the _Assault on Arkham_ Ivy again reminded me that she's based on her Arkham games counterpart in the current DC Animated Movie Universe.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## darkeyes

Thanks for posting, I have been tracking all her appearances and missed that first one.  He got most of them, just missed a couple obscure ones like the Batman: Gotham City Racer Game (2001).

----------


## buck135

I echo darkeyes' gratitude for the link Confuzzled. On the comic front, Ivy looked great during her cameo in last weeks Injustice 2 #17. Pam wasn't in Batgirl and the Birds of Prey #18, but she is quite prominently featured in Harley Quinn #34. It will be interesting how Ivy is portrayed with Harley now that Amanda Conner and Jimmy Palmiotti are taking a much deserved break.

----------


## Confuzzled

My pleasure, folks  :Smile: 




> I echo darkeyes' gratitude for the link Confuzzled. On the comic front, Ivy looked great during her cameo in last weeks Injustice 2 #17. Pam wasn't in Batgirl and the Birds of Prey #18, but she is quite prominently featured in Harley Quinn #34. It will be interesting how Ivy is portrayed with Harley now that Amanda Conner and Jimmy Palmiotti are taking a much deserved break.


_Injustice 2_ #17 is the issue that I assume collects the digital chapter that had Harley and Ivy spending the night together, right? Or is this a new Ivy appearance in the Injustice 2 comic?

----------


## buck135

> My pleasure, folks 
> 
> 
> 
> _Injustice 2_ #17 is the issue that I assume collects the digital chapter that had Harley and Ivy spending the night together, right? Or is this a new Ivy appearance in the Injustice 2 comic?


It's them spending the night together. Great artwork.

----------


## Confuzzled

Gail Simone tweeting some Ivy appreciation of her own


How did DC lose her to Marvel again? She would have killed it on a Poison Ivy book or even Gotham City Sirens.

----------


## Confuzzled

Tom King tweeted a preview of Mikel Janin's Ivy from _Batman #41_, the start of the _Everyone Loves Ivy_ arc

----------


## Tupiaz

> But Nature doesn't behave that way. Without humans (and animals), many current plant species that she is sworn to protect will go extinct too without the ecological balance. There will be new species but they will be something else. It's a bit like losing your "own people" in a bid to wipe out your "enemy". Even if she strictly sympathises with only plants (though I find that less interesting than her being torn between her human and "nature" sides), she would know that full out genocide is not going to result well for the plant kingdom as well.


Plants and animals have been living on earth for millions of years without humans it surely could again and would most likely benefit from it. Mankind is in a small part of earths lifespan we have as a species have only been part of earth for around 7.000 years. Earth with plants and animals have existed for millions of years.




> How did DC lose her to Marvel again? She would have killed it on a Poison Ivy book or even Gotham City Sirens.


Gail stated she had editorial problems regarding creative differences. Basically she didn't wanted Batgirl to be dark and gritty all the time. Gail wanted the book to have a lighter tone.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Plants and animals have been living on earth for millions of years without humans it surely could again and would most likely benefit from it. Mankind is in a small part of earths lifespan we have as a species have only been part of earth for around 7.000 years. Earth with plants and animals have existed for millions of years.


But not most of the _current_ species of plants or animals. Ivy wants to protect all species from endangerment. Wiping out mankind is going to dramatically alter the plant kingdom as well.




> Gail stated she had editorial problems regarding creative differences. Basically she didn't wanted Batgirl to be dark and gritty all the time. Gail wanted the book to have a lighter tone.


So basically they hired Mark Doyle just a moment too late to retain Simone? Damn. I liked Batgirl of Burnside just fine but her lighter take would have been so much more layered and fascinating.

----------


## HandofPrometheus

Ivy in Damage Issue 4
IMG_20180116_125901.jpg

----------


## buck135

Awesome. Thanks for the heads up HandofPrometheus.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> Ivy in Damage Issue 4
> IMG_20180116_125901.jpg


Gorgeous...this is my Ivy...long hair, flesh skin tone, leaf bodysuit, bare feet, red lips and leafs in her hair.

----------


## TomServofan

Who thinks Diane Pershing had such a seductive voice for the role?

----------


## buck135

> Who thinks Diane Pershing had such a seductive voice for the role?


Absolutely, however Tasia Valenza is my favorite. Very similar to how I prefer Tara Strong over Arleen Sorkin as the voice of Harley.

----------


## Frontier

> Ivy in Damage Issue 4
> IMG_20180116_125901.jpg


Seems like she's cycling between the New 52 look, classic look, or just a leaf swimsuit depending on the comic...

----------


## Confuzzled

> Seems like she's cycling between the New 52 look, classic look, or just a leaf swimsuit depending on the comic...


Depending on the story, she also comes up with something totally new like _Suicide Squad Metal_'s Jungle Dominatrix look.  :Stick Out Tongue:  BatBoP is a mix between her classic style and look from the mini. Add to that the alternate versions from titles like Bombshells, Gotham Garage Girls, Injustice 2 and the occasional popping up of her Arkham Games visual, she's got about a dozen looks still appearing in comics.  :Smile: 

P.S. This is the first I'm hearing about this _Damage_ title!

----------


## MentalManipulator

I hope these news don't mean we won't be seeing Ivy in the movie universe:

https://www.cbr.com/dc-gotham-city-sirens-delayed/

I hope she's the main villain in the Batgirl movie as rumoured or at least featured in that movie or Suicide Squad 2.

----------


## buck135

> I hope these news don't mean we won't be seeing Ivy in the movie universe:
> 
> https://www.cbr.com/dc-gotham-city-sirens-delayed/
> 
> I hope she's the main villain in the Batgirl movie as rumoured or at least featured in that movie or Suicide Squad 2.


I was initially annoyed, but Justice League is one of the worst films I have ever seen. The whole Zach Snyder, Ben Affleck, studio interference fiascos have also soured me on the current DCEU. Nothing could get me to watch Aquaman or Shazam despite my appreciation for their respective directors. Any one of the members on this thread could do a better job managing the DCEU.

----------


## Confuzzled

If it were up to me, I'd make _Birds of Prey_ a _Pulp Fiction_-type "interconnected vignettes" movie about the women of Gotham. One story being based on Harley and Ivy's first meeting and initial adventures, another on Barbara recovering from her _Killing Joke_ injury and attempting to get back into the life of physical crimefighting. The third one introducing Black Canary and her life, and the final one being the formation of the Birds of Prey and the two of them going after Harley & Ivy (and maybe involve the Joker and Renee Montoya the way they were in the _Harley & Ivy_ episode).

Thoughts?

----------


## MentalManipulator

> If it were up to me, I'd make _Birds of Prey_ a _Pulp Fiction_-type "interconnected vignettes" movie about the women of Gotham. One story being based on Harley and Ivy's first meeting and initial adventures, another on Barbara recovering from her _Killing Joke_ injury and attempting to get back into the life of physical crimefighting. The third one introducing Black Canary and her life, and the final one being the formation of the Birds of Prey and the two of them going after Harley & Ivy (and maybe involve the Joker and Renee Montoya the way they were in the _Harley & Ivy_ episode).
> 
> Thoughts?


That could really work and would be an original and refreshing take on the genre. Nice!

----------


## Osiris-Rex

> I hope these news don't mean we won't be seeing Ivy in the movie universe:
> 
> https://www.cbr.com/dc-gotham-city-sirens-delayed/
> 
> I hope she's the main villain in the Batgirl movie as rumoured or at least featured in that movie or Suicide Squad 2.


From reading the article and the article it referenced and in turn the article it referenced it seems like the author is confused.  Originally the rumor were that the Harley Quinn spin off movie from Suicide Squad
was going to be a Birds of Prey movie. Later it was revealed the movie would be Gotham City Sirens.  If you follow the trail of references you will see the first article is just the Birds of Prey rumor article.
This is the article that started the ball rolling.  https://www.thewrap.com/harley-quinn...istina-hodson/   Notice the date: November 11, 2016.  This was before it was announced that the
movie would in fact be Gotham City Sirens. So once again CBR is just publishing a click-bait article that has no basis in fact.

----------


## Confuzzled

> That could really work and would be an original and refreshing take on the genre. Nice!


Thanks.  :Smile:  It's a structure that lends itself so naturally to the comic book genre too. A film based on the Gotham Girls would be the ideal candidate to experiment this on as the required budget wouldn't be as big as some other superhero tentpoles, so it's less of a risk. 




> From reading the article and the article it referenced and in turn the article it referenced it seems like the author is confused.  Originally the rumor were that the Harley Quinn spin off movie from Suicide Squad
> was going to be a Birds of Prey movie. Later it was revealed the movie would be Gotham City Sirens.  If you follow the trail of references you will see the first article is just the Birds of Prey rumor article.
> This is the article that started the ball rolling.  https://www.thewrap.com/harley-quinn...istina-hodson/   Notice the date: November 11, 2016.  This was before it was announced that the
> movie would in fact be Gotham City Sirens. So once again CBR is just publishing a click-bait article that has no basis in fact.


I did notice that discrepancy. But it's not just CBR, there are quite a few geeksites that are running with this news. 

Having said that, the chances of David Ayer returning to the DCEU keep getting slimmer and slimmer. Margot Robbie had also spoken about developing a Harley Quinn and Gal Pals films separate from Gotham City Sirens. I think Poison Ivy appearing in the DCEU is still very likely, but her debut film may not be _Gotham City Sirens_.

----------


## Osiris-Rex

> I did notice that discrepancy. But it's not just CBR, there are quite a few geeksites that are running with this news.


But you know how that works.  One site puts out a story and the next thing you know 100 other sites are referencing that story. 
I refer you to the story in The Wrap:  https://www.thewrap.com/margot-robbi...-quinn-movies/

Notice that it references a story from November 11, 2016. https://www.thewrap.com/harley-quinn...istina-hodson/

Now notice that by December 13, 2016 that the movie was now going to be Gotham City Sirens:  https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...lains-project-





> Having said that, the chances of David Ayer returning to the DCEU keep getting slimmer and slimmer. Margot Robbie had also spoken about developing a Harley Quinn and Gal Pals films separate from Gotham City Sirens. I think Poison Ivy appearing in the DCEU is still very likely, but her debut film may not be _Gotham City Sirens_.


Not saying CGS will definitely happen, but Ayer did say CGS was still in development. And again I think the 100+ sites were mis-interpreting what Robbie was saying to make it sound like we are getting 4+ Harley Quinn
movies.  Nothing in her original statement made it sound like she wasn't talking about GCS.  What other Gal Pals could she be referring to other than GCS? I am calling the idea that it will be Birds of Prey again Fake News.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Not saying CGS will definitely happen, but Ayer did say CGS was still in development. And again I think the 100+ sites were mis-interpreting what Robbie was saying to make it sound like we are getting 4+ Harley Quinn movies.  N*othing in her original statement made it sound like she wasn't talking about GCS.  What other Gal Pals could she be referring to other than GCS*? I am calling the idea that it will be Birds of Prey again Fake News.


The interviewer specifically asked her if she was talking about GCS and she answered no, she was talking about something totally different.



*
(skip to about the 7:40 mark)*

But she says Harley needs her "girlfriends/girl gang" and that she personally wants to see Harley with other women.

----------


## Confuzzled

Return of Ivy controlled Robinson Park in April's _MOTHER PANIC: GOTHAM A.D. #2_






> _MOTHER PANIC: GOTHAM A.D. #2
> Written by JODY HOUSER
> Art by IBRAHIM MOUSTAFA
> Cover by TOMMY LEE EDWARDS
> To rescue the person most important to her, Mother Panic needs to break into one of the most secure buildings in Collective-controlled Gotham City—Arkham Asylum. Will Catwoman, Gotham’s greatest thief, be willing to help her in her mission? And what has Poison Ivy done to Robinson Park to turn it into a soldier-eating nightmare?
> On sale APRIL 25 • 32 pg, FC • $3.99 US • MATURE READERS_

----------


## Confuzzled

As expected, Ivy is fodder in _Gotham By Gaslight_. Another media adaptation like _Gotham_ that does great by Selina but messes up Pamela.

Her Victorian era "gentleman's club" performer getup is exquisite though. Wouldn't be surprised if DC Collectibles tries to wring a figure out of the design.

----------


## Confuzzled

Is this a Bizzaro Ivy on the cover of _Superman #44_?



That red lining on her costume is reminiscent of her _Injustice 2_ design.




> SUPERMAN #44
> Written by PATRICK GLEASON and PETER J. TOMASI • Art and cover by PATRICK GLEASON • Variant cover by JONBOY MEYERS
> “BOYZARRO RE-DEATH” part three! Gathered together from the cosmic recesses of the universe are the most powerful forces of bad ever assembled! Now the Super Foes face the Legion of Fun—and the only heroes who dare to stand against this intergalactic threat of the Bizarroverse are Superman and son!
> On sale APRIL 4 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US • RATED T

----------


## Confuzzled

Here's the solicitation for _Damage #4_ featuring Ivy:




> DAMAGE #4
> Written by ROB VENDITTI • Art by CARY NORD • Cover by TONY S. DANIEL
> Poison Ivy attacks a group of fieldworkers, forcing Ethan to choose between transforming into Damage and saving them—or protecting his own sanity! And will Colonel Jonas and her squad capture him before he discovers the truth about what he really is?
> On sale APRIL 18 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US • RATED T

----------


## Confuzzled

The cover for _Batman #42_, the second issue of the _Everyone Loves Ivy_ three-parter (the previous Janin cover attributed to Batman #42 is apparently the cover for _Batman #41_).

----------


## Katana500

> The cover for _Batman #42_, the second issue of the _Everyone Loves Ivy_ three-parter (the previous Janin cover attributed to Batman #42 is apparently the cover for _Batman #41_).


Thats a pretty awesome cover!

----------


## Confuzzled

> Thats a pretty awesome cover!


Ivy looks like a spooky mannequin whose wig is askew. Creepily beautiful.

----------


## Confuzzled

A sneak peak of _Gotham_'s latest take on Poison Ivy, who has now evolved into her final stage like a true Poison Type Pokemon!  :Stick Out Tongue: 



*Skip to 3:51 for the Ivy stuff.*




> “Ivy Pepper has been transformed once again taking another step toward becoming the Ivy we know from the comics,” Gotham‘s producers said previously. “Dangerous. A live wire of crazy energy. She’ll set her sights on Gotham, intent on making the city her own green paradise.”

----------


## MentalManipulator

Yes, the transition of the character was super weird but I'm happy we are finally getting grown-up, seductive and powerful Ivy.

----------


## Confuzzled

Poison Ivy confirmed as series regular on the new Harley Quinn animated show for DC's streaming service. Here's her character breakdown:




> Along for the ride, will be Harley’s longtime friend and companion, Poison Ivy.
> 
> [DR. PAMELA ISLEY (AKA “POISON IVY”)] (LATE 20’s) Sarcastic and incredibly smart, Ivy is Harley’s best friend and now roommate. Very much a loner (she prefers plants over people), Ivy is sometimes the voice of reason but always a true friend to Harley. Ivy soon becomes her reluctant partner-in-crime. (SERIES REGULAR)


Read on for breakdowns of other characters including The Joker, Sy Borgman from Harley's New 52 series, and surprises like Doctor Psycho (!), Malice Vundabar, King Shark and Clayface: http://thathashtagshow.com/2018/02/e...-quinn-series/

----------


## Frontier

> Poison Ivy confirmed as series regular on the new Harley Quinn animated show for DC's streaming service. Here's her character breakdown:
> 
> 
> 
> Read on for breakdowns of other characters including The Joker, Sy Borgman from Harley's New 52 series, and surprises like Doctor Psycho (!), Malice Vundabar, King Shark and Clayface: http://thathashtagshow.com/2018/02/e...-quinn-series/


Well, hopefully she gets to do more then just be Harley's sarcastic and sassy best friend here, although I like that she's referred to as "Dr. Pamela Isley" as far as her civilian identity.

----------


## WontonGirl

> Well, hopefully she gets to do more then just be Harley's sarcastic and sassy best friend here, although I like that she's referred to as "Dr. Pamela Isley" as far as her civilian identity.


Man I remember the days when Harley was HER side-kick in animation. My have times changed!

----------


## Confuzzled

> Man I remember the days when Harley was HER side-kick in animation. My have times changed!


I know I am one of the rare Paul Dini bashers here, but in fairness to him Harley was still Ivy's sidekick in his recent work with them on _Justice League Action_ as opposed to the other way around trend in recent media.

----------


## Confuzzled

A lovely 50's style Ivy enjoying her tea, by the always wonderful Kevin Wada:

----------


## Frontier

> I know I am one of the rare Paul Dini bashers here, but in fairness to him Harley was still Ivy's sidekick in his recent work with them on _Justice League Action_ as opposed to the other way around trend in recent media.


I wouldn't say either was a sidekick in JLA. 

I'd say they felt more like equal partners-in-crime whenever they were shown together, rather then one dominating the other.

----------


## WontonGirl

> I wouldn't say either was a sidekick in JLA. 
> 
> I'd say they felt more like equal partners-in-crime whenever they were shown together, rather then one dominating the other.


Yeah, I have never even heard of Justice League Action, LOL!

----------


## Osiris-Rex

> Yeah, I have never even heard of Justice League Action, LOL!


It's an animated version of the Justice League with characters like Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman.  A little more cartoony and humorous than things like Batman: The Animates Series.
Here is one with Poison Ivy in it.

----------


## Osiris-Rex

> Man I remember the days when Harley was HER side-kick in animation. My have times changed!





> I wouldn't say either was a sidekick in JLA. 
> 
> I'd say they felt more like equal partners-in-crime whenever they were shown together, rather then one dominating the other.


That's how it seems in this one.

----------


## Confuzzled

Was that written by Dini? His one with Ivy crushing on Swamp Thing had Harley has her sidekick and just another one of Ivy's nuisances for the JL like her plants.  




And then there was the Ivy League one (also written by Dini) where Ivy was the leader of an assembled gang of DC supervillainesses and Harley wasn't there.

----------


## Frontier

> Was that written by Dini? His one with Ivy crushing on Swamp Thing had Harley has her sidekick and just another one of Ivy's nuisances for the JL like her plants.


I didn't think Harley was Ivy's sidekick in this one since they were working closely together and Harley got something out of it (breaking Bud and Lou out of the zoo).    



> And then there was the Ivy League one (also written by Dini) where Ivy was the leader of an assembled gang of DC supervillainesses and Harley wasn't there.


Though weirdly enough Ember, another Tara Strong voiced character, was also there  :Stick Out Tongue: .

Harley was probably one of the more glaring absences of the Ivy League but I guess they thought they had enough characters in that webisode.

----------


## GamerSlyRatchet

> Harley was probably one of the more glaring absences of the Ivy League but I guess they thought they had enough characters in that webisode.


Eh, I didn't mind it. Just like they were seeking to make Harley independent from Joker, they also had Harley and Ivy do their own thing sometimes.

----------


## Confuzzled

And we have the cover for the final issue of _Everyone Loves Ivy_ (Batman #43):

----------


## Confuzzled

Batman #41 variant cover by Olivier Coipel:



And Tom King tweeted out the colored version of the Janin image he had revealed earlier:



Colors by June Chung

----------


## Confuzzled

A preview page from _Batgirl and the Birds of Prey #19_ featuring Ivy (the issue's out tomorrow)



Link to the whole preview: https://www.newsarama.com/38577-batg...review.html#s7

----------


## BBeeryan

I've come to appreciate the beautiful Poison Ivy. She's always been one of the best characters in the bat-house.

----------


## Frontier

> Batman #41 variant cover by Olivier Coipel:
> 
> 
> 
> And Tom King tweeted out the colored version of the Janin image he had revealed earlier:
> 
> 
> 
> Colors by June Chung


Makes me wish Coipel was drawing the arc...



> A preview page from _Batgirl and the Birds of Prey #19_ featuring Ivy (the issue's out tomorrow)
> 
> 
> 
> Link to the whole preview: https://www.newsarama.com/38577-batg...review.html#s7


This is just...kind of weird. 

(I don't think Ivy eats French Fries).

----------


## WontonGirl

I mean, they are Potatoes so I could see her eating them.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I've come to appreciate the beautiful Poison Ivy. She's always been one of the best characters in the bat-house.


Preach boo. What are your favourite Ivy stories?

----------


## Confuzzled

> Makes me wish Coipel was drawing the arc...
> 
> This is just...kind of weird. 
> 
> (I don't think Ivy eats French Fries).


Frontier, what do you think of her mind controlling the Leaguers against Bruce on the _Batman_ #_43_ cover? (check last post on the previous page)

It's hilarious that one book has Babs bringing her French Fries at the company she helped open for her while on the other, she is pitting the rest of the Justice League against Batman. XD

----------


## Frontier

> Frontier, what do you think of her mind controlling the Leaguers against Bruce on the _Batman_ #_43_ cover? (check last post on the previous page)
> 
> It's hilarious that one book has Babs bringing her French Fries at the company she helped open for her while on the other, she is pitting the rest of the Justice League against Batman. XD


If it actually happens in-story, it'll be a pretty impressive feat for Ivy  :Smile: .

----------


## BBeeryan

> Preach boo. What are your favourite Ivy stories?


Yes, love. I like my relationship with Catwoman, most of my exposure to Poison Ivy came through the Batman/JL cartoons and the video games of course. I'm a big kid at heart. I'm also ashamed to admit that I haven't followed her comic history as much  as I should.

----------


## GamerSlyRatchet

Here are all of Poison Ivy's numerous appearances in animation.

----------


## WontonGirl

How do you guys KEEP your photos large? 

My photos start off large but when I come back to them, they are a thumbnail. What am I doing wrong?

----------


## Osiris-Rex

> How do you guys KEEP your photos large? 
> 
> My photos start off large but when I come back to them, they are a thumbnail. What am I doing wrong?


I wonder about that too.  Sometimes mine are full size, other times they are tiny.  Sometimes they start out the right size but when I come back to the thread later on they have shrunk.

----------


## Confuzzled

> How do you guys KEEP your photos large? 
> 
> My photos start off large but when I come back to them, they are a thumbnail. What am I doing wrong?





> I wonder about that too.  Sometimes mine are full size, other times they are tiny.  Sometimes they start out the right size but when I come back to the thread later on they have shrunk.


I guess you guys have some auto image resize setting on. Check with the mods on that.




> Here are all of Poison Ivy's numerous appearances in animation.


Ah memories. Ivy's animation in the big greenhouse action scene in _Pretty Poison_ is so amusing. She looks like a Baby Ariel at times.

I had forgotten how fetishistic _Gotham Girls_ was at certain moments.  :Stick Out Tongue: 

Alyssa Milano in _Young Justice_ was a really odd fit.

----------


## Confuzzled

A Mondo poster for _Harley and Ivy_ from their upcoming gallery show of exclusive _Batman: The Animated Series_ episode posters in Austin, TX:

----------


## Osiris-Rex

Nice body paint Harley is wearing.

----------


## darkeyes

I love that poster!  They are also showing a couple of their new 1/6 TAS figures.  Would be great if the line continued long enough for a 1/6 Poison Ivy.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> A Mondo poster for _Harley and Ivy_ from their upcoming gallery show of exclusive _Batman: The Animated Series_ episode posters in Austin, TX:


This is gorgeous! I wish I had this poster.....it also makes me want a Harley & Ivy long feature film à la Thelma & Louise




> I love that poster!  They are also showing a couple of their new 1/6 TAS figures.  Would be great if the line continued long enough for a 1/6 Poison Ivy.


Do you have a link to the figures?

----------


## Frontier

> A Mondo poster for _Harley and Ivy_ from their upcoming gallery show of exclusive _Batman: The Animated Series_ episode posters in Austin, TX:


Awesome  :Big Grin: .



> Nice body paint Harley is wearing.


Gotta love those skintight costumes  :Stick Out Tongue: .

----------


## darkeyes

Here is a video showing Batman and Freeze back in 2017:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te6nkY_OI6I

----------


## WontonGirl

> A Mondo poster for _Harley and Ivy_ from their upcoming gallery show of exclusive _Batman: The Animated Series_ episode posters in Austin, TX:


Do you have a link to the posters? I saw it on Twitter but now I can't find the place it was retweeted from

----------


## darkeyes

Not sure if they are available yet, but here is a look at them:

https://mondotees.com/blogs/news/jus...s-gallery-show

Also, how pretty is the Artist Alley Poison Ivy (Holiday Variant) Statue?  It is a Toy Fair exclusive, but it is also available at retailers.  BBTS just put it up.

Artist Alley Poison Ivy v.jpg

----------


## Confuzzled

> Not sure if they are available yet, but here is a look at them:
> 
> https://mondotees.com/blogs/news/jus...s-gallery-show
> 
> Also, how pretty is the Artist Alley Poison Ivy (Holiday Variant) Statue?  It is a Toy Fair exclusive, but it is also available at retailers.  BBTS just put it up.
> 
> Artist Alley Poison Ivy v.jpg


Can't wait to see the posters for all the Ivy related episodes!

And I much prefer that Artist Alley design in green. The original statue's black and red scheme didn't scream Ivy despite the obvious motifs.

----------


## MentalManipulator

These posters are really stunning. Can't wait to see them all. Pretty Poison should be very nice I think.

----------


## Celgress

> A Mondo poster for _Harley and Ivy_ from their upcoming gallery show of exclusive _Batman: The Animated Series_ episode posters in Austin, TX:


I love it. Viewing this I can just picture our two favorite criminal girls pulling off a heist then engaging the cops in an epic car chase through Gotham and its outskirts.  :Cool:

----------


## Confuzzled

> I love it. Viewing this I can just picture our two favorite criminal girls pulling off a heist then engaging the cops in an epic car chase through Gotham and its outskirts.


I'm surprised Margot Robbie and WB have been breaking their heads over what direction a Harley Quinn spin-off movie should go in when a Thelma and Louise style _Harley & Ivy_ film is the easiest bet and surefire moneymaker.

Geoff Johns is useless if he couldn't think of suggesting an H&I film to Robbie and co.

----------


## nj06

> A Mondo poster for _Harley and Ivy_ from their upcoming gallery show of exclusive _Batman: The Animated Series_ episode posters in Austin, TX:


Great poster. I always liked the dynamic between these two. I would love for these two to get their own animated film.

----------


## Osiris-Rex

> I'm surprised Margot Robbie and WB have been breaking their heads over what direction a Harley Quinn spin-off movie should go in when a Thelma and Louise style _Harley & Ivy_ film is the easiest bet and surefire moneymaker.
> 
> Geoff Johns is useless if he couldn't think of suggesting an H&I film to Robbie and co.


Just add Catwoman and there is your Gotham City Sirens movie. Plus with three characters in it, it is harder for people to say it is ripping off Thelma and Louise.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Just add Catwoman and there is your Gotham City Sirens movie. Plus with three characters in it, it is harder for people to say it is ripping off Thelma and Louise.


I think Catwoman being there from the get go lessens the impact of the Harley/Ivy relationship. Selina works as the third party coming in to an already established partnership. It's for that reason I'd prefer a _Harley & Ivy_ movie first before proper Sirens (with Selina first appearing elsewhere in the DCEU like maybe the Batman solo movie).

And I don't think people call superhero genre films rip-offs of other genre films. Black Panther (and The Lion King) are not called Hamlet rip-offs, are they? Even if the connection is made, they work in their own right. Dini wasn't ever shy about revealing Harley & Ivy's _Thelma and Louise_ influences because he was confident they were still unique enough in their own way. 

Besides, looks like Sony's Black Cat and Silver Sable movie is trying to beat WB/DC when it comes to a T&L inspired superhero movie. It would be a tremendously lost opportunity if that film stole a potential Harley & Ivy _and_ Gotham City Sirens movie's zing.

----------


## darkeyes

The upcoming Prime 1 1/3 Hush statue is insane.  Between this and the XM statue, I am going to take out a mortgage on the house.  I tried posting a pic but it just came out as a thumbnail.

----------


## Confuzzled

> The upcoming Prime 1 1/3 Hush statue is insane.  Between this and the XM statue, I am going to take out a mortgage on the house.  I tried posting a pic but it just came out as a thumbnail.


Here you go:





Holy s### she's stunning!

----------


## Confuzzled

The base and plants are crazy too:

----------


## MentalManipulator

> The base and plants are crazy too:


I normally don't care for statues but this one is perfect! Great sculpt and so many details!

----------


## Confuzzled

> Here you go:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Holy s### she's stunning!


Every time I look at her, I stay captivated. The creators put in a LOT of effort here lol

----------


## Confuzzled

Ivy from the first page of the _Batman #41_ preview:



See the rest of the preview here: https://www.cbr.com/exclusive-batman-41/

----------


## TomServofan

> The base and plants are crazy too:


Now that is a fantastic detailed model with everything and plants straight out of a Resident Evil game

----------


## Caivu

Dustin Nguyen, Li'l Gotham omnibus cover. You know the drill.  :Stick Out Tongue: 

dbac4cde-22c6-4873-8700-0aac7e3085f1.jpg

----------


## Caivu

This is maybe more related to the Batman #41 thread, but I've heard a theory floated that Ivy's not actually controlling the whole planet, just Bruce and Selina, and making them think that. If so, the why isn't any more clear than it is now.

----------


## K Nikk

> This is maybe more related to the Batman #41 thread, but I've heard a theory floated that Ivy's not actually controlling the whole planet, just Bruce and Selina, and making them think that. If so, the why isn't any more clear than it is now.


I figure her motivation is what she states in the book "I have 7.6 Billion people.  I have the world.  I'm going to make it better..... I want you to know, as we fix what has been so broken... I am genuinely sorry that you can't be part of it. "

I think she is bring her powers to bear to try and "fix" the world (according to her POV)- which makes sense if we consider her primary motivation may be to defend the natural world.  If she was just fooling with Bruce and Selina's brains then what would be the motivation?  She only figures out Bruce is Batman because he managed to find the loophole to her powers (the lead box analogy) so it would have to be just about going after Selina, and that doesn't feel in character - it's too small and petty a goal.

----------


## Caivu

> If she was just fooling with Bruce and Selina's brains then what would be the motivation?


Much like Bruce, I don't know yet.

----------


## willtupper

This may be an odd question, but it's one I've wondered for some time now:

Are there any stories that explore the possibility that maybe, just _maybe_... Ivy's _right_?

That the planet does need to be saved. That we need to do something, and now.

She's always struck me as, in a lot of ways, far more hero than villain. So, yeah.

Are there any stories like that? Or do they all just live in my imagination?  :Big Grin:

----------


## Caivu

Offhand, I recall the New 52 Birds of Prey touching on that a bit early on. Same with Batgirl Annual #2 from the same era. But my memory's fuzzy on both.

----------


## Confuzzled

> This may be an odd question, but it's one I've wondered for some time now:
> 
> Are there any stories that explore the possibility that maybe, just _maybe_... Ivy's _right_?
> 
> That the planet does need to be saved. That we need to do something, and now.
> 
> She's always struck me as, in a lot of ways, far more hero than villain. So, yeah.
> 
> Are there any stories like that? Or do they all just live in my imagination?


John Francis Moore's _Batman: Poison Ivy_ one-shot from 1997

The entire _No Man's Land_ phase for Ivy

Ann Nocenti's _Batman and Poison Ivy: Cast Shadows_

The New 52 stories Caivu mentioned

Amy Chu's _Poison Ivy: Cycle of Life and Death_ miniseries

Scott Snyder's _All-Star Batman #7_

Hope Larson's _Batgirl_ #6, Francis Manapul's opening arc of _Trinity_ and the Benson Sisters' take on her in _Batgirl and the Birds of Prey_ also showed her in a more heroic than negative light. In other media, Ivy gradually became a do-gooder in the _Arkham_ games too. And of course, there's _DC Super Hero Girls_ where she's a bonafide superheroine.

----------


## Barbatos666

What about Alan Grant's stories and LOTDK: Hothouse or was it Hotspot.

----------


## Confuzzled

> This is maybe more related to the Batman #41 thread, but I've heard a theory floated that Ivy's not actually controlling the whole planet, just Bruce and Selina, and making them think that. If so, the why isn't any more clear than it is now.


That would be a great twist. If that's true then I wonder whether it is to show Batman how _he's_ been the one holding her down. Instead of seeing her viewpoint and helping her educate mankind regarding environmental issues, he continued to beat her down which in turn maintained humanity's apathy and negligence towards the ecosystem. How frustrating it was for her to see the greedy corporate controlled world and how Batman's actions against her helped sustain the exploitative status quo, hence harming the very society he was sworn to protect. So now she want him to see how it feels to have the shoe on the other foot and make him finally see the world _as she sees it_. Selina probably just got caught in the crossfire due to Bruce injecting her with the "serum", ironically and fittingly Bruce making things worse in his misguided attempts to "protect" her.

Anyhoo, that's my theory. I'd be surprised if it turns out to be something along those lines.

----------


## K Nikk

> That would be a great twist. If that's true then I wonder whether it is to show Batman how _he's_ been the one holding her down. Instead of seeing her viewpoint and helping her educate mankind regarding environmental issues, he continued to beat her down which in turn maintained humanity's apathy and negligence towards the ecosystem. How frustrating it was for her to see the greedy corporate controlled world and how Batman's actions against her helped sustain the exploitative status quo, hence harming the very society he was sworn to protect. So now she want him to see how it feels to have the shoe on the other foot and make him finally see the world _as she sees it_. Selina probably just got caught in the crossfire due to Bruce injecting her with the "serum", ironically and fittingly Bruce making things worse in his misguided attempts to "protect" her.
> 
> Anyhoo, that's my theory. I'd be surprised if it turns out to be something along those lines.


She didn't know Bruce was batman until it turned out he was the only one not to succumb to the mind control. I think that making this all about convincing Batman is a disservice to Ivy. She is taking the reigns here to do what she thinks needs to be done, not teaching Batman a lesson (so that Batman can then do what needs to be done?).  King put up a great image today of superman hovering over Wayne manor with the caption "house arrest".  She is saying "you tried, now let me do the work".  That's my take on it.  can't wait for next week!

----------


## Confuzzled

> She didn't know Bruce was batman until it turned out he was the only one not to succumb to the mind control. I think that making this all about convincing Batman is a disservice to Ivy. She is taking the reigns here to do what she thinks needs to be done, not teaching Batman a lesson (so that Batman can then do what needs to be done?).  King put up a great image today of superman hovering over Wayne manor with the caption "house arrest".  She is saying "you tried, now let me do the work".  That's my take on it.  can't wait for next week!


It depends on what continuity King's stories take place in. Has Ivy been close to Selina in his continuity? If that's the case, then it would be pretty easy for Pam to put two and two together and deduce the secret of Selina's new beau, knowing what she knows about Selina's dalliances with the Bat. Ivy could have then set it all up for Bruce to play along to her plan.

And "teaching Batman a lesson" _is_ Ivy taking the reigns and doing what she thinks needs to be done. If she cannot defeat the biggest obstacle standing between her and her goals, then might as well make him see her perspective. It would also be pretty groundbreaking if Poison Ivy ends up being the villain who proved to her arch nemesis that _she_ was the one who was (more) in the right all along.

Anyway though, I don't think it is very likely that's how things will turn out. This story has multiple fascinating directions it could potentially go in. Even the least interesting possibility of Ivy simply mindcontrolling everyone so that they finally live in harmony with Nature could have some layers of complexity to it. So I'm curious. And that wonderful art makes it a win-win situation in any scenario.

----------


## Confuzzled

Frank Cho variant for _Harley Quinn #40_

----------


## K Nikk

> It depends on what continuity King's stories take place in. Has Ivy been close to Selina in his continuity? If that's the case, then it would be pretty easy for Pam to put two and two together and deduce the secret of Selina's new beau, knowing what she knows about Selina's dalliances with the Bat. Ivy could have then set it all up for Bruce to play along to her plan.
> 
> And "teaching Batman a lesson" _is_ Ivy taking the reigns and doing what she thinks needs to be done. If she cannot defeat the biggest obstacle standing between her and her goals, then might as well make him see her perspective. It would also be pretty groundbreaking if Poison Ivy ends up being the villain who proved to her arch nemesis that _she_ was the one who was (more) in the right all along.
> 
> Anyway though, I don't think it is very likely that's how things will turn out. This story has multiple fascinating directions it could potentially go in. Even the least interesting possibility of Ivy simply mindcontrolling everyone so that they finally live in harmony with Nature could have some layers of complexity to it. So I'm curious. And that wonderful art makes it a win-win situation in any scenario.


Regarding knowing Bruce is batman:  I thought the point of the superman/joker story and the lead boxes was the analogy to "take over every mind, the one mind that gets away is batman".  that was my interpretation. 

I can really see this arc as one where Bruce wrestles with his sympathy for the motivation of his villain but the method is so wrong that it has to be stopped (of course).  That means what happens AFTER is just as important as what happens during.

----------


## WontonGirl

Edited because...well, I didn't know how the thread would take it so never mind.  :Frown:

----------


## Confuzzled

I've been ignoring all the Ivy related articles by Bleeding Cool, but now even IGN is criticising the zero consistency in Ivy's moral compass

I feel this discussion is a little premature before the conclusion of the arc and when we don't exactly know what Ivy's motivations are.

----------


## darkeyes

Make sure to catch the Gotham premiere, the new Ivy is in it.  Looks like she is about to become a featured villain in the series, I rather like the direction they are taking her.

----------


## Confuzzled

_The Line It Is Drawn_'s Matt Sandbrook draws Ivy posing as another iconic Uma Thurman character, _Pulp Fiction_'s Mia Wallace:

----------


## PwrdOn

This cartoon has somehow managed to portray Ivy just as a straight up cutesy good girl and made it work somehow.  Small chance of that interpretation ever making it into the comics, but hey, you never know.

----------


## Confuzzled

> This cartoon has somehow managed to portray Ivy just as a straight up cutesy good girl and made it work somehow.  Small chance of that interpretation ever making it into the comics, but hey, you never know.


With her visuals being similar to forest nymph motifs and her deep love for Nature, it always was super easy to make Ivy an all-out cutesy heroine for kids. Especially post-_Ferngully: The Last Rainforest_. Remember that film?  :Stick Out Tongue:  I think this series also basically made her Elsa with plant powers.

Save for King's take on her and _Suicide Squad Metal_, every other Ivy appearance in _Rebirth_ so far has portrayed her in a more heroic light. So much so that it wouldn't be unbelievable to think Rebirth Ivy was actually the grown-up version of DCSHG Ivy, albeit more jaded now.

----------


## Confuzzled

_Harley and Ivy Meet Betty and Veronica #6_  cover by Marc Andreyko



Anybody here reading this book? It's been consistently placing well in the Top 100, which is really good for a miniseries, moreso for one that is a crossover with characters from Archie Comics. Apparently Sabrina's involved too so now I gotta pick this up.

----------


## WontonGirl

> _Harley and Ivy Meet Betty and Veronica #6_  cover by Marc Andreyko
> 
> 
> 
> Anybody here reading this book? It's been consistently placing well in the Top 100, which is really good for a miniseries, moreso for one that is a crossover with characters from Archie Comics. Apparently Sabrina's involved too so now I gotta pick this up.


I've read it. And I grew up on Archie Comics so I think personally, my time for Archie has passed BUT I have been reading the series. 

I think it's good for Harley/Ivy fans, Harley fans and of course Archie comic fans that are into Betty & veronica's separate adventures. I mean, I always say, give it a shot.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I've read it. And I grew up on Archie Comics so I think personally, my time for Archie has passed BUT I have been reading the series. 
> 
> I think it's good for Harley/Ivy fans, Harley fans and of course Archie comic fans that are into Betty & veronica's separate adventures. I mean, I always say, give it a shot.


Thank you.  :Smile:  It was already getting too irresistible for me with Ivy, Veronica and Sabrina interacting in the same story, so glad to hear that it's actually fun too!

----------


## Osiris-Rex

Anyone else enjoying the Gotham TV series version of Ivy Pepper?  She is starting to come of her own with the plant based weapons. Ivy now even has the flowers that have weaponized pollen.

----------


## darkeyes

I think Gotham is doing a good job developing the main villains so far.  Ivy is being set up as a ruthless ecoterrorist, but I think they could easily turn her into more of an anti-hero if they wished.  I like how she infects people with a mutated strain of Posion Ivy that feeds off the host bodies, that is something new for the character I beleive.  I was suprised how prominet she was featured in the first two epidodes of the season and how it took Ivy to snap Bruce back to his Batman path.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I think Gotham is doing a good job developing the main villains so far.  Ivy is being set up as a ruthless ecoterrorist, but I think they could easily turn her into more of an anti-hero if they wished.  *I like how she infects people with a mutated strain of Posion Ivy that feeds off the host bodies, that is something new for the character I beleive.*  I was suprised how prominet she was featured in the first two epidodes of the season and how it took Ivy to snap Bruce back to his Batman path.


Inspired by _The Long Halloween_, where she had Bruce's body covered in ivy leaves when he was under her thrall.

----------


## Confuzzled

In case you were wondering what poison Ivy uses  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Confuzzled

Olivier Coipel variant for _Batman #43_

----------


## nonsense man

I have an idea to have both a good and evil poison ivy in the comics.  Since she is mostly plant now destroy the original somehow but she grew back like any plant but this time she split apart as a more sympathic version and a more ruthless evil one.  It is cliche but in a good way you can have both versions in the same universe because of this they have the same memories up to that point but they see things in a different light because one version has more positive and forgiving emotions and the other doesnt'.  It would be fun to confuse bruce selina and harley if this situation ever came to pass

----------


## vitaminbee

I really love the look Coipel has been drawing Ivy in.. Black body suit but with the typical/classic leaf bustier/corset.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I have an idea to have both a good and evil poison ivy in the comics.  Since she is mostly plant now destroy the original somehow but she grew back like any plant but this time she split apart as a more sympathic version and a more ruthless evil one.  It is cliche but in a good way you can have both versions in the same universe because of this they have the same memories up to that point but they see things in a different light because one version has more positive and forgiving emotions and the other doesnt'.  It would be fun to confuse bruce selina and harley if this situation ever came to pass


This sounds similar to the Rose and Thorn character, especially the New 52's take on her. Interesting how that character never took off like Ivy, though interestingly there is a late 70's story where she defeats Ivy in hand to hand combat when our girl comes to kill her with a gun (don't ask  :Stick Out Tongue: ).




> I really love the look Coipel has been drawing Ivy in.. Black body suit but with the typical/classic leaf bustier/corset.


He makes the suit work better than Janin in my humble opinion.

After watching the film _Annihilation_ and its visceral take on the wild beauty of Nature, I feel like DC artists keep missing an opportunity with Ivy by sticking to just the greens (and black in the bodysuit) and not incorporating more vibrantly colored flowers.

----------


## nonsense man

You are right about that.  I was thinking they had to do what I thought about because in some stories she is an anti heroine or in others an outright villian like some pointed out her characterization is all over the place these days.  Or they could retcon on those stories where she is acting good it is actually rose and thorn and not ivy that is doing that

----------


## PwrdOn

> This sounds similar to the Rose and Thorn character, especially the New 52's take on her. Interesting how that character never took off like Ivy, though interestingly there is a late 70's story where she defeats Ivy in hand to hand combat when our girl comes to kill her with a gun (don't ask ).




I must say that Ivy is pretty much the perfect jobber, especially in her classic form.  All that arrogance and attitude combined with overconfidence and a general ineptitude in combat just makes her a total pushover in any kind of direct confrontation, and even being an Ivy fan I'll admit I'm usually rooting for the heroines to kick her butt.

----------


## Confuzzled

Well, we've come a whole 180 from that to today where she's a literal god who can control the entire planet and now knows every hero's secret identity, and can only be "defeated" by *spoilers:*
being persuaded not to carry on with her plans.
*end of spoilers* What a journey folks, I love it!  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## nonsense man

Works she is complex the only people she would consider listening to are Harley Bruce and Selina in no particular order.  Also ivy is to dependent on her plant powers whether for offensive purposes or using them as actual poison or for suduction.  But once you get through those things in hand to hand she is easy to beat that is why her and Harley are good as partners on and off the field their skills compliment each other.

----------


## nonsense man

ALso there was a golden age rose and thorn married to alan scott the mother of obsidian and jade.  She had plant based powers like poison ivy maybe they based pam on her without the split personality but now it goes full circle I guess.   She was a villianess too but had that an excuse maybe they could use that to explain poision ivy's back and forth as well

----------


## K. Jones

> ALso there was a golden age rose and thorn married to alan scott the mother of obsidian and jade.  She had plant based powers like poison ivy maybe they based pam on her without the split personality but now it goes full circle I guess.   She was a villianess too but had that an excuse maybe they could use that to explain poision ivy's back and forth as well


Pam is also interesting because she's from the Neil Gaiman "secret origins" retcon of Ivy, who was originally named Lillian Rose. So much like other characters out there - Clayface comes to mind, and Killer Moth and Firefly, and dear god, Killer Frost, right? - there's myriad Ivy "aliases" out there that could explained away as either aliases or like, whole other characters. Imposters and the like. Replacements. MAKE PAM GOOD but bring in Lillian Rose and you still get an EVIL IVY. That sorta thing. So long as she has a different design aesthetic so Pam can retain her kind of bombshell verdant scientist style.

----------


## PwrdOn

> Works she is complex the only people she would consider listening to are Harley Bruce and Selina in no particular order.  Also ivy is to dependent on her plant powers whether for offensive purposes or using them as actual poison or for suduction.  But once you get through those things in hand to hand she is easy to beat that is why her and Harley are good as partners on and off the field their skills compliment each other.




Seems like Ivy can't be on the same panel as Selina without catching a boot to the face though.  Their rivalry would be pretty interesting if it weren't so one sided.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Seems like Ivy can't be on the same panel as Selina without catching a boot to the face though.  Their rivalry would be pretty interesting if it weren't so one sided.


She gives as good as she gets

----------


## Confuzzled

Fun facts regarding Ivy's voice actress, Atsuko Tanaka, in the original Japanese version of _Batman Ninja_:

She's the voices of Motoko Kusanagi from the _Ghost in the Shell_ series and Bayonetta in the _Bayonetta_ films. 

This is the _second_ time she is voicing Poison Ivy, the first being for Uma Thurman's version in the Japanese dub of _Batman and Robin_. So if any of you have seen the Japanese dub of B&R will know what her Ivy sounds like.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## WontonGirl

Wait? You are using HUSH? The issue where Catwoman defeats Poison Ivy? Come on, at least use an example where Ivy defeats Cat  :Wink: 

a8ea8047665a2830a5a172bfb8f06d42.jpg

----------


## WontonGirl

And this is all in jest guys, so don't get offended  :Big Grin:  But I am really looking forward to seeing *Ivy* in *Batman Ninja*! I think she is going up against Damian. 

tumblr_p0gtc91hEk1u8rq6jo1_1280.jpg

----------


## Frontier

> Fun facts regarding Ivy's voice actress, Atsuko Tanaka, in the original Japanese version of _Batman Ninja_:
> 
> She's the voices of Motoko Kusanagi from the _Ghost in the Shell_ series and *Bayonetta in the Bayonetta films.* 
> 
> This is the _second_ time she is voicing Poison Ivy, the first being for Uma Thurman's version in the Japanese dub of _Batman and Robin_. So if any of you have seen the Japanese dub of B&R will know what her Ivy sounds like.


Even more fitting  :Wink: .

I know Koichi Yamadera is reprising Batman from some Japanese dubs but I had no idea Tanaka had voiced Ivy before. Cool  :Cool: .

----------


## PwrdOn

> Wait? You are using HUSH? The issue where Catwoman defeats Poison Ivy? Come on, at least use an example where Ivy defeats Cat


The only instance I can think of where Ivy scored a win over Catwoman in hand to hand was in Batman #400, though of course her triumph only lasted a few pages before Batman rescued Selina and they took out Ivy and her gang.

----------


## Confuzzled

Pam and Harley took out Selina at the end of _Gotham City Sirens #1_, leading to their interrogation of her regarding Batman's true identity:



But TBF Selina had the whole heart problem going on at the time thanks to _Heart of Hush_. *But TBF to Ivy*, she saved Cat's ass earlier on in the issue when a two-bit criminal was going to take advantage of Selina's vulnerability and end her.




^Loved this scene. It's funny how easily pre-Flashpoint Ivy had made Riddler her b*tch for using her, while it's a whole other dynamic with current Ivy.

----------


## WontonGirl

> Pam and Harley took out Selina at the end of _Gotham City Sirens #1_, leading to their interrogation of her regarding Batman's true identity:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^Loved this scene. It's funny how easily pre-Flashpoint Ivy had made Riddler her b*tch for using her, while it's a whole other dynamic with current Ivy.


I don't like March's art for some reason. I guess I am the only one  :Frown:

----------


## millernumber1

> I don't like March's art for some reason. I guess I am the only one


No, I think March's art tends towards odd fisheye camera effects, too.

----------


## Tarantino

> Pam and Harley took out Selina at the end of _Gotham City Sirens #1_, leading to their interrogation of her regarding Batman's true identity:
> 
> 
> 
> But TBF Selina had the whole heart problem going on at the time thanks to _Heart of Hush_. *But TBF to Ivy*, she saved Cat's ass earlier on in the issue when a two-bit criminal was going to take advantage of Selina's vulnerability and end her.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^Loved this scene. It's funny how easily pre-Flashpoint Ivy had made Riddler her b*tch for using her, while it's a whole other dynamic with current Ivy.


An overused villain who has a breath of life again. I enjoyed Batman #41.

----------


## Frontier



----------


## Confuzzled

> 


Ivy looks like Cheryl Blossom from _Riverdale_ there!



Kind of fitting as the same actress wore an Ivy influenced get-up for a PETA ad

----------


## MentalManipulator

I watched the episodes of Gotham yesterday with the new "new" Poison Ivy and I really liked it. 

It felt like a good version of the character. I hope she sticks around for more arcs after this season.

Did you guys watched it? Liked it?

----------


## Osiris-Rex

> Ivy looks like Cheryl Blossom from _Riverdale_ there!
> 
> 
> 
> Kind of fitting as the same actress wore an Ivy influenced get-up for a PETA ad


Madelaine Petsch would make a good Poison Ivy if WB ever gets around to making a Gotham City Sirens movie.

----------


## PwrdOn

I don't think Ivy would be in favor of Peta though, she would probably want to save her precious plants and force people to eat filthy animals instead.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I don't think Ivy would be in favor of Peta though, she would probably want to save her precious plants and force people to eat filthy animals instead.


Ivy is shown to be a vegetarian in many instances, the most recent being _Batgirl and the Birds of Prey_. Also she would know that depletion of animal resources would adversely affect plant life (for example, lack of insect eating animals and birds would lead to an overabundance of pests that would damage most plants and crops).

----------


## LoganAlpha30X33

> Madelaine Petsch would make a good Poison Ivy if WB ever gets around to making a Gotham City Sirens movie.


Or they could just add the other two actresses on that show for maybe Selina and Harley or something like that...

----------


## Agent Z

> *Ivy is shown to be a vegetarian in many instances, the most recent being Batgirl and the Birds of Prey*. Also she would know that depletion of animal resources would adversely affect plant life (for example, lack of insect eating animals and birds would lead to an overabundance of pests that would damage most plants and crops).


Doesn't that make her a hypocrite given how she hates humans for abusing plants.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Doesn't that make her a hypocrite given how she hates humans for abusing plants.


When *not* written like a one-dimensional cartoon baddie, Pam only hates greedy industrialists exploiting natural resources on a large scale. Such exploitation affects the entire ecosystem, not just plants, hence why Ivy's motivations started becoming so relatable and sympathetic in the first place.

She's never attacked people for simply _eating_ plants for survival. Heck, during No Man's Land, she offered the fresh produce grown at Robinson Park to Gotham's earthquake struck denizens (and presumably fed her adopted orphans the same greens and fruits).

----------


## TheNewFiftyForum

> When *not* written like a one-dimensional cartoon baddie, Pam only hates greedy industrialists exploiting natural resources on a large scale. Such exploitation affects the entire ecosystem, not just plants, hence why Ivy's motivations started becoming so relatable and sympathetic in the first place.
> 
> She's never attacked people for simply _eating_ plants for survival. Heck, during No Man's Land, she offered the fresh produce grown at Robinson Park to Gotham's earthquake struck denizens (and presumably fed her adopted orphans the same greens and fruits).


There's a story in Paul Dini's run on Detective Comics where she lures innocent people to be fed to one of her carnivorous plants, and in the first Arkham game (which Dini also wrote) she tortures and kills people for breathing and trampling simple spores, if I remember correctly. 

Anyway, did I interpret the ending of "Everybody loves Ivy" correctly if I thought that it made a point of making her not ever having killed anyone in the current continuity?

----------


## Osiris-Rex

> Or they could just add the other two actresses on that show for maybe Selina and Harley or something like that...


Lili Reinhart (Betty) as Harley Quinn and Camila Mendes (Veronica) as Selina?  Maybe get Luke Perry to cameo as Bruce Wayne and Cole Sprouse (Jughead) as the Joker.

----------


## Confuzzled

> There's a story in Paul Dini's run on Detective Comics where she lures innocent people to be fed to one of her carnivorous plants, and in the first Arkham game (which Dini also wrote) she tortures and kills people for breathing and trampling simple spores, if I remember correctly. 
> 
> Anyway, did I interpret the ending of "Everybody loves Ivy" correctly if I thought that it made a point of making her not ever having killed anyone in the current continuity?


Dini's depiction of Ivy definitely veered into the cartoonish especially in the mid-late 00's in his quest to paint her as incredibly depraved. But other writers didn't take stock of his characterization of her (including those of the later Arkham games and related comics where Ivy became very sympathetic).

Heck Dini himself didn't treat his own "Psycho Genocidal Ivy" stories as canon. _Gotham City Sirens_ Ivy is not the one from _Stalked_, his Ivy story in Detective Comics, despite both taking place before Flashpoint.

_Rebirth_ Ivy not having murdered anyone is my take away from Batman #43 too. It feels like the other extreme, but I prefer that extreme to heartless mass genocide Poison Ivy.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Lili Reinhart (Betty) as Harley Quinn and Camila Mendes (Veronica) as Selina?  Maybe get Luke Perry to cameo as Bruce Wayne and Cole Sprouse (Jughead) as the Joker.


Lol Luke Perry? Those actresses are young enough to be his daughters!  :EEK!: 

So Bruce Timm would recommend them for Barbara.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## WontonGirl

> Anyway, did I interpret the ending of "Everybody loves Ivy" correctly if I thought that it made a point of making her not ever having killed anyone in the current continuity?


No, Batman was just saying that she didn't those Men in the park.

----------


## Osiris-Rex

> Lol Luke Perry? Those actresses are young enough to be his daughters! 
> 
> So Bruce Timm would recommend them for Barbara.


Okay, so KJ Apa (Archie) as Bruce Wayne.  He's buff and not really a redhead.

----------


## kjn

Welcome to Eden, a bayou blues by the wonderfully nerdy Leslie Hudson.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Welcome to Eden, a bayou blues by the wonderfully nerdy Leslie Hudson.


Nice. I like how they put as much Ivy info in the lyrics as possible.  :Big Grin:

----------


## BBeeryan

> When *not* written like a one-dimensional cartoon baddie, Pam only hates greedy industrialists exploiting natural resources on a large scale. Such exploitation affects the entire ecosystem, not just plants, hence why Ivy's motivations started becoming so relatable and sympathetic in the first place.
> 
> She's never attacked people for simply _eating_ plants for survival. Heck, during No Man's Land, she offered the fresh produce grown at Robinson Park to Gotham's earthquake struck denizens (and presumably fed her adopted orphans the same greens and fruits).


Oh, wow, this is the Ivy that I wanna read about. No nonsense earth goddess with a heart of gold.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Oh, wow, this is the Ivy that I wanna read about. No nonsense earth goddess with a heart of gold.


Hi BB!  :Smile:  Here's a list of recommended Ivy stories if you enjoy her in a more heroic or sympathetic light:

*Batman: Poison Ivy* by John Francis Moore (1997 one-shot)
*Batman/Poison Ivy: Cast Shadows* by Ann Nocenti
*Batman: No Man's Land Volume 3 (Fruit of the Earth 3-parter*) (Batman: Shadow of the Bat #88, Batman #568, Detective Comics #735) 
*Batgirl Annual #2* by Gail Simone
*Poison Ivy: Cycle of Life and Death TPB* by Amy Chu
*All-Star Batman #7* by Scott Snyder
*Batgirl (Rebirth Volume) #6* by Hope Larson
*Trinity Vol. 1: Better Together* by Francis Manapul
*Batgirl and the Birds of Prey #12 or #13 onwards* by Shawna and Julie Benson

----------


## Agent Z



----------


## Agent Z



----------


## Mistah K88

> When *not* written like a one-dimensional cartoon baddie, Pam only hates greedy industrialists exploiting natural resources on a large scale. Such exploitation affects the entire ecosystem, not just plants, hence why Ivy's motivations started becoming so relatable and sympathetic in the first place.


Is there any reason to ever have had Ivy locked in Arkham? It'd be something if Arkham actually did it's job and actually helped her in a way, evolving her as a character. However, what I'm getting lately is that she was always benevolent and appreciative of human life. Maybe that issue with the men in the park (which I remember being self defense, I'll have to go back and look again) is starting to make me say "really?"

----------


## darkeyes

> 


Those were pretty cool, I love the Ivy vs Ivy ones!

----------


## Confuzzled

> Is there any reason to ever have had Ivy locked in Arkham? It'd be something if Arkham actually did it's job and actually helped her in a way, evolving her as a character. However, what I'm getting lately is that she was always benevolent and appreciative of human life. Maybe that issue with the men in the park (which I remember being self defense, I'll have to go back and look again) is starting to make me say "really?"


Neil Gaiman was the one who introduced the idea of Ivy as an Arkham inmate for his mid-80's _Black Orchid_ series, as that story required her to be an inmate in the asylum whom the protagonist needed to visit. In that very first Arkham appearance, Ivy showed redemptive qualities by taking responsibility for her actions.



As you can see, he also introduced the concept of Ivy wilting and shrivelling up like a real plant when denied sunlight in Arkham. One would think such a miserable situation would have _only worsened_ her mental state, not improved it like Arkham was supposed to. Ann Nocenti's *Cast Shadows* explores a situation where a highrise built across from Arkham blocks the sunlight from coming into Ivy's cell and how that lack of sunlight affected her. But other than that, there was no attention given to the fact of how terrible Arkham Asylum truly was for Poison Ivy and how sending her there only perpetuated her mental instability and kept her from recovering, if not made things worse. Ivy confronting Arkham for its ineptitude in failing to rehabilitate her would make for an interesting story.

----------


## buck135

> Is there any reason to ever have had Ivy locked in Arkham? It'd be something if Arkham actually did it's job and actually helped her in a way, evolving her as a character. However, what I'm getting lately is that she was always benevolent and appreciative of human life. Maybe that issue with the men in the park (which I remember being self defense, I'll have to go back and look again) is starting to make me say "really?"


If not for Ivy in Arkham, we'd never have heard Batman say "Just stay where you are. Last thing I need is *you* running free" in the Rocksteady Arkham Asylum game. That line gets me every time.

----------


## juan678



----------


## Confuzzled

Joelle Jones shared a Selina and Pamela piece on her art blog:



I wonder if Ivy will appear in the new Catwoman series. Both of the other two Sirens have their own titles, does DC have something in store for Ivy? Is Sanctuary going to be a series and will she be a regular in it?

----------


## Frontier

> Joelle Jones shared a Selina and Pamela piece on her art blog:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if Ivy will appear in the new Catwoman series. Both of the other two Sirens have their own titles, does DC have something in store for Ivy? Is Sanctuary going to be a series and will she be a regular in it?


Joelle Jones and her stunning art  :Big Grin: .

I think it's been said a few times that Sanctuary isn't going to be a new comic but appear across the DCU, but plans might change.

----------


## LoganAlpha30X33

Actually from that pic I'm left to wonder where Selina's left hand is... :Embarrassment:

----------


## Confuzzled

> Actually from that pic I'm left to wonder where Selina's left hand is...


Proof of Selina's bisexuality being canon in _Rebirth_.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## LoganAlpha30X33

Well then again Ivy doesn't exactly look upset by the location of Selina's hand either...

----------


## Confuzzled

> Well then again Ivy doesn't exactly look upset by the location of Selina's hand either...


Unsurprising. Riddler in _Hush_ implied that Ivy had a crush on Selina.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## LoganAlpha30X33

Also now makes me wonder if Bruce and Selina never told most about their wedding because of the number of people who'd then want to object during that part of the ceremony...and I wonder how Harley would like that bit of info Confuzzled...

----------


## Confuzzled

Lynee Yoshii commission depicting the Sirens with the Bat-Bride

----------


## darkeyes

Wow, that is great!

----------


## WontonGirl

*Poison Ivy* will be in next week's Damage #4 Issue. There is also a good preview: 

https://www.newsarama.com/39500-pois...4-preview.html

aHR0cDovL3d3dy5uZXdzYXJhbWEuY29tL2ltYWdlcy9pLzAwMC8yMjQvNTU1L29yaWdpbmFsL0RBTUFHRV9DdjQuanBn.jpg

----------


## Agent Z

Well that face turn didn't last long now did it?

----------


## LoganAlpha30X33

Well from the cover she doesn't seem to be attacking random people or civilians but a guy that can cause a lot of damage...

----------


## Confuzzled

How's her skin green in the interiors when it hasn't been so since pre-Flashpoint? Is this book out of continuity?

----------


## Confuzzled

There was a Sirens reunion in _Harley Quinn #41_ (variant by Frank Cho)
[IMG]https://***********/geekdad.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2018/04/Harley-Quinn-41-variant-cover.jpg?w=1200&ssl=1[/IMG]

Also, a slightly older issue from October, Issue #29, had Scarecrow douse Harley with his fear toxin, which then revealed that Harley's BIGGEST fear is Ivy not caring about her anymore and instead preferring to kiss The Joker! But Ivy makes it all better by giving her the antidote through her own kiss  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## nonsense man

so my theory of two poison ivy's running around is true

----------


## Confuzzled

> so my theory of two poison ivy's running around is true


_Damage_'s creators have apparently said there is a reason for Ivy's behaviour in their story. I wonder if this green-skinned evil version turns out to be a clone like in the DCAU comics?



Though I suspect it will be something more simple like Ivy being mind-controlled by Grodd.

----------


## Confuzzled

Jeremy Whitley, one of the writers included in the *Ricanstruction: Reminiscing & Rebuilding Puerto Rico* anthology series, revealed that his story with art by Ro Stein stars Ivy and Selina:

https://twitter.com/jrome58/status/986569963464019971

Even if it's just one story, it's for a great cause so may as well pre-order or purchase it.

----------


## Frontier

> Jeremy Whitley, one of the writers included in the *Ricanstruction: Reminiscing & Rebuilding Puerto Rico* anthology series, revealed that his story with art by Ro Stein stars Ivy and Selina:
> 
> https://twitter.com/jrome58/status/986569963464019971
> 
> Even if it's just one story, it's for a great cause so may as well pre-order or purchase it.


It's really awesome to see DC do such cool anthology books for worthwhile causes  :Smile: .

----------


## Confuzzled

> It's really awesome to see DC do such cool anthology books for worthwhile causes .


And also the second anthology series in a row with a story starring our favorite vegan  :Cool:  Looks like Ivy is very popular among rising talents in the industry, which bodes well for her future.

Now if they only include her in the upcoming _Birds of Prey_ movie. *fingers crossed* I think a simpler feature length version of _Harley and Ivy_ would have had more of an impact but I'll take what I can get.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Confuzzled

Still of Ivy from _Batman Ninja_

----------


## Punisher007

> There was a Sirens reunion in _Harley Quinn #41_ (variant by Frank Cho)
> [IMG]https://***********/geekdad.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2018/04/Harley-Quinn-41-variant-cover.jpg?w=1200&ssl=1[/IMG]
> 
> Also, a slightly older issue from October, Issue #29, had Scarecrow douse Harley with his fear toxin, which then revealed that Harley's BIGGEST fear is Ivy not caring about her anymore and instead preferring to kiss The Joker! But Ivy makes it all better by giving her the antidote through her own kiss


Aww that's sweet.

----------


## kjn

> Now if they only include her in the upcoming _Birds of Prey_ movie. *fingers crossed* I think a simpler feature length version of _Harley and Ivy_ would have had more of an impact but I'll take what I can get.


I'm seriously confused (or would be, if I cared) about all the various announcements that comes out about DC movies and what they intend; like a solo Batgirl film, or a Birds of Prey film, or Gotham City Sirens, or just Harley and Ivy, or the Joker film (likely with Harley Quinn). All of them can be tricky to handle, for various reasons.

If we limit this to the character of Poison Ivy, one issue is that the character has grown organically from plant-focused criminal to ecoterrorist to antivillain to sympathetic differently-adjusted character. So a lot of her old stories are tricky to bring forward. Since she has been a secondary villainous character, a lot of her character development have also been done off-stage or only hinted at.

The appeal of Gotham City Sirens would to me lie in three damaged women trying to come to terms with themselves and find a place in the world. To me, that says tv series much more than movie. Birds of Prey has issues with that they need Oracle, it's a team movie, and Poison Ivy's relation to the group is decidedly mixed. A solo Batgirl movie would likely focus on some other villains. So I think bringing the modern Poison Ivy to film will be a long time coming.

----------


## buck135

> I'm seriously confused about all the various announcements that comes out about DC movies.


Unfortunately so is Warner Brothers. I despised Justice League so much that I just want this current wave to end. The back and forth with Ben Affleck has been frustrating. He's terrific, as are Margot Robbie, Henry Cavill and Gal Gadot. The rest I can do without. I will never watch Aquaman, Shazam, Wonder Woman 2 or Suicide Squad 2.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I'm seriously confused (or would be, if I cared) about all the various announcements that comes out about DC movies and what they intend; like a solo Batgirl film, or a Birds of Prey film, or Gotham City Sirens, or just Harley and Ivy, or the Joker film (likely with Harley Quinn). All of them can be tricky to handle, for various reasons.
> 
> If we limit this to the character of Poison Ivy, one issue is that the character has grown organically from plant-focused criminal to ecoterrorist to antivillain to sympathetic differently-adjusted character. So a lot of her old stories are tricky to bring forward. Since she has been a secondary villainous character, a lot of her character development have also been done off-stage or only hinted at.
> 
> The appeal of Gotham City Sirens would to me lie in three damaged women trying to come to terms with themselves and find a place in the world. *To me, that says tv series much more than movie.* Birds of Prey has issues with that they need Oracle, it's a team movie, and Poison Ivy's relation to the group is decidedly mixed. A solo Batgirl movie would likely focus on some other villains. So I think bringing the modern Poison Ivy to film will be a long time coming.


I'd agree with that but to an extent. If someone was really invested in the Sirens, then I think an incredibly well-realized character driven movie trilogy would do the same trick, with each instalment spotlighting a certain Siren and an archnemesis from her past (Black Mask, Jason Woodrue/Floronic Man and The Joker being those 3 villains obviously), and the other two Sirens playing solid supports in each film. In lots of ways, it also highlights the parallels between all three women, especially Harley and Ivy.

If they are focusing more on Birds of Prey, then I think they could just introduce Ivy and her dynamics with Harley, as setup for future appearances in the DC Films. In many ways I've warmed up to that idea because I think for the best way for Gotham City Sirens to work, you need to establish just Harley & Ivy first before bringing Selina into the picture. So that's why I hope Ivy is included in the Birds of Prey movie, Harley and she being the foil to the Birds. I'll still watch the film if it doesn't include her, but it would be a missed opportunity not to have her there if it's going to be so Harley focused.

----------


## kjn

> I'd agree with that but to an extent. If someone was really invested in the Sirens, then I think an incredibly well-realized character driven movie trilogy would do the same trick, with each instalment spotlighting a certain Siren and an archnemesis from her past (Black Mask, Jason Woodrue/Floronic Man and The Joker being those 3 villains obviously), and the other two Sirens playing solid supports in each film. In lots of ways, it also highlights the parallels between all three women, especially Harley and Ivy.


Yes, I can see how such a movie trilogy can be done. But at the same time it would require a coherent long-term vision and a type of storytelling that is seldom seen in movies. That same type of story-telling has however been seen very often in tv series; I'm especially thinking about the BBC series _Being Human_).

On another matter, in a discussion about Circe over in the Wonder Woman forum, I realised that there are lots of parallels between the classic Circe and Poison Ivy. On a superficial level they are both connected with herbs, potions, and poisons. More centrally, they are both hedonistic characters capable of easily controlling and manipulating men that in some way prefer to build their own little paradise and stay there. If approached with care, respect, and/or caution they can both be capable advisors and allies.

Beatrice Offor's Circe (via Wikimedia Commons):



Margarita Georgiadis as Circe by Rosemary Valodon.

Both these portraits feel very much like they capture Poison Ivy's character very well. I think Poison Ivy's roots go very deep.

----------


## Confuzzled

Ivy was inspired by the Nathaniel Hawthorne short story _Rappaccini's Daughter_, the tragic tale of a beautiful young woman who was confined in a garden and experimented on by her mad scientist father until she became poisonous to the touch. The story in turn was inspired by the tales of seductive "Vish Kanya", beautiful women in Ancient India who were fed poisons since birth to make them poisonous to other people. They were used as assassins against political enemies.

John William Waterhouse painting of Rappaccini's Daughter:



In the early 80's, Stevie Nicks wrote a song called _Running Through the Garden_  based on the character:

----------


## kjn

> Ivy was inspired by the Nathaniel Hawthorne short story _Rappaccini's Daughter_, the tragic tale of a beautiful young woman who was confined in a garden and experimented on by her mad scientist father until she became poisonous to the touch.


Cool! Always nice to find some more history behind the characters.

----------


## Confuzzled

Fans of No Man's Land era Ivy will love her appearance _Mother Panic Gotham A.D._ #2 where she is protecting Robinson Park and the orphans and endangered species who have taken refuge there, against the expanding arms of capitalism and corruption that have overtaken the rest of Gotham of the future.

----------


## Confuzzled

_Batgirl and the Birds of Prey_'s final book tries to make sense of the recent Ivy timeline, but as usual when it comes to all things Rebirth Ivy, it's left me even more confused now!




So Ivy was employed at Terracare and referring to Selina as "Cat" BEFORE she took over the world in _Everybody Loves Ivy_? And does ELI take place before _Damage_ #4? In which case, what happened to Ivy being sent to Sanctuary?  :Confused:  So many questions. Will they ever be answered?

----------


## Darkspellmaster

I think on another thread they said it takes place before Damage 4, though I'm not sure exact dates.

----------


## WontonGirl

Yes, all the BoP stuff I think takes place before Damage and Damage takes place before Everybody Loves Ivy. After Everybody Loves Ivy, she is being sent to the Sanctuary. 

There were editorial notes explaining it in the various issues.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Yes, all the BoP stuff I think takes place before Damage and Damage takes place before Everybody Loves Ivy. After Everybody Loves Ivy, she is being sent to the Sanctuary. 
> 
> There were editorial notes explaining it in the various issues.


Okay I haven't read _Damage #4_ yet so didn't read their note. It being set between BoP and Everybody Loves Ivy makes more sense, I guess. Well, it's good that DC is actually bothering to set an in continuity timeline for Ivy.

----------


## WontonGirl

> Okay I haven't read _Damage #4_ yet so didn't read their note. It being set between BoP and Everybody Loves Ivy makes more sense, I guess. Well, it's good that DC is actually bothering to set an in continuity timeline for Ivy.


I think there was notes in BoP. I think I remember seeing some notes.

----------


## Confuzzled

Triskelle Pictures, a UK based production house, is making a crowd funded Poison Ivy fan film based on _Cast Shadows_ and other Ivy stories. Exciting. Here's the first behind the scenes look at the project.

----------


## Confuzzled

Has anyone been reading _Damage_?

----------


## lucius121

I read the first 2 with the suicide squad but it was awful so I dropped it.

----------


## MentalManipulator

I don't read but I really dig the art 

Does anyone hopes Ivy will play a big part in Gotham's show with the No Man's Land concept arriving soon? I sure hope she'll occupy the park

----------


## Frontier

> I don't read but I really dig the art 
> 
> Does anyone hopes Ivy will play a big part in Gotham's show with the No Man's Land concept arriving soon? I sure hope she'll occupy the park


It would be nice to see Peyton Lists' Ivy come back for a major role in the final season  :Smile: .

(Maybe they'll finally introduce her "Pamela Isley" name).

----------


## Confuzzled

So this DC All Access does a show called _Versus_ where they pit two DC characters against each other. This type it is Harley vs. Ivy. Here's the video with two industry people making the case for each Siren. 




You can vote for the winner in the poll on the following link:

https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2018/0...-vs-poison-ivy

Harley fans somehow think she has a chance over a literal nature goddess! Why is Ivy losing? We have to change the tide!

----------


## Frontier

Lauren Faust talks about Ivy on the new _DC Super Hero Girls_ series.




> You will have to wait and see just who Pam is and isn’t friends with. And who Poison Ivy is and isn’t friends with. You might be surprised.

----------


## GamerSlyRatchet

> It would be nice to see Peyton Lists' Ivy come back for a major role in the final season .


I read that one of her pilots was picked up and that she's part of the cast in another show, so she might be busy. It'd be cool if they could get her for a single appearance, at least. 




> Lauren Faust talks about Ivy on the new _DC Super Hero Girls_ series.


How interesting. I assumed the duality would only apply to Harley, but apparently to Ivy as well.

----------


## Confuzzled

Excited to see what Lauren Faust has in store for Ivy and Harley.

----------


## Confuzzled

Artist Paulina Ganucheau previewed some glimpses of her Harley and Ivy drawn backup story appearing in this week's *Mother Panic: Gotham A.D. #3*



Like her distinct style so I'll be sure to check it out!

----------


## Frontier

> Artist Paulina Ganucheau previewed some glimpses of her Harley and Ivy drawn backup story appearing in this week's *Mother Panic: Gotham A.D. #3*
> 
> 
> 
> Like her distinct style so I'll be sure to check it out!


Wow, love the art! Harley and Ivy look great!

Also appreciate seeing Harley in her classic look.

----------


## Confuzzled

> So this DC All Access does a show called _Versus_ where they pit two DC characters against each other. This type it is Harley vs. Ivy. Here's the video with two industry people making the case for each Siren. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can vote for the winner in the poll on the following link:
> 
> https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2018/0...-vs-poison-ivy
> 
> Harley fans somehow think she has a chance over a literal nature goddess! Why is Ivy losing? We have to change the tide!


Just a follow-up: Ivy won this _Versus_ contest (58% to Harley's 42%) as announced in this week's Flash vs. Supergirl episode.  :Smile:

----------


## Frontier

> Just a follow-up: Ivy won this _Versus_ contest (58% to Harley's 42%) as announced in this week's Flash vs. Supergirl episode.


Awesome! Also wasn't as close as I was expecting it to be  :Smile: .

----------


## Confuzzled

Ivy gets to shine in the very first _Lego DC Super-Villains_ game trailer along with Harley, Joker and Reverse Flash

----------


## Frontier

> Ivy gets to shine in the very first _Lego DC Super-Villains_ game trailer along with Harley, Joker and Reverse Flash


Nice selfie  :Wink: .

----------


## Confuzzled

> Nice selfie .


Lego Ivy's Old Hollywood glam diva look always looks spiffy!

And just realized that later this year we will get another couple of new designs for animated Ivys: one for the _Harley Quinn_ show and one for Lauren Faust's _DC Super Hero Girls_ show. #EXCITE

----------


## Confuzzled

Loving artist Rick Celis's BTAS spin on the Mikel Janin covers for the Batman #41 and Batman #43 issues of the _Everyone Loves Ivy_ arc!

----------


## Confuzzled

In less delightful news, Omega Underground who are claiming confirmation of Huntress and Black Canary's inclusion in the _Birds of Prey_ movie, say they haven't heard anything about Ivy being in the mix as well  :Frown: 




> And no, we havent seen any indication that Posion Ivy will appear which has also been asked of us repeatedly.


Source

----------


## MentalManipulator

Great covers...

Sad news.

----------


## kjn

> In less delightful news, Omega Underground who are claiming confirmation of Huntress and Black Canary's inclusion in the _Birds of Prey_ movie, say they haven't heard anything about Ivy being in the mix as well


On the other hand, Poison Ivy is one of the more complex villains within DC, and I'm not sure she's best introduced in a teamup movie (see also the hot mess that was Suicide Squad, even if Harley Quinn did rather well there). I believe DC would do better to focus on more individual movies for now, as well, and as solo characters I think Batgirl and Catwoman have greater immediate potential, both commercially and aesthetically.

Gotham City Sirens has a lot of potential, but as a TV series rather than a movie. Think Being Human.

----------


## vitaminbee

> Gotham City Sirens has a lot of potential, but as a TV series rather than a movie. Think Being Human.


No... Please. I don't need TV series to butcher any of these characters like they have in the past.

----------


## Confuzzled

> ...as solo characters I think Batgirl and Catwoman have greater immediate potential, *both commercially and aesthetically.*


Poison Ivy has often sold more Halloween costumes than Catwoman, and always more so than Batgirl. It's pretty even when it comes to toy sales as well. Having said that, it's a moot argument as I doubt either Catwoman or Ivy are getting a solo movie any time soon.

As for Gotham City Sirens, a movie trilogy with each instalment focusing on each Siren would've been ideal in my opinion. But I suspect Margot Robbie doesn't want her Harley Quinn to be overshadowed by Catwoman and Ivy and instead prefers to be the lone zany, scenery chewing character in contrast with the "straight" Birds of Prey heroines.

----------


## kjn

> No... Please. I don't need TV series to butcher any of these characters like they have in the past.


So you assume a movie won't butcher the character, but the TV series will? I'm not sure there is historical evidence to back up that assertion: there is plenty of evidence of both butchering and non-butchering in both mediums.

I'm going with the assumption that a proposed TV series *or* movie will do a decent job with characterisation.




> Poison Ivy has often sold more Halloween costumes than Catwoman, and always more so than Batgirl. It's pretty even when it comes to toy sales as well. Having said that, it's a moot argument as I doubt either Catwoman or Ivy are getting a solo movie any time soon.
> 
> As for Gotham City Sirens, a movie trilogy with each instalment focusing on each Siren would've been ideal in my opinion. But I suspect Margot Robbie doesn't want her Harley Quinn to be overshadowed by Catwoman and Ivy and instead prefers to be the lone zany, scenery chewing character in contrast with the "straight" Birds of Prey heroines.


I was more thinking about the movie as a movie, ie ticket sales, people liking the movie, and building buzz for future movies, not secondary merchandising. And as a solo lead, Poison Ivy is tricky: she's not that well-known and lacks "classic" stories. In a way, I think the modern Ivy is a great character to add complexity to a cast and plot, but not that good as a solo lead.

A Gotham City Sirens movie trilogy as you envision could maybe work, but to me it would work against the medium. What is appealing about them to me is three damaged women finding healing and community together in a world that has hurt and rejected them. You need a balance between domestic plots and action plots. That's something really common in TV series, but seldom done in movies.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I was more thinking about the movie as a movie, ie ticket sales, people liking the movie, and building buzz for future movies, not secondary merchandising. And as a solo lead, Poison Ivy is tricky: she's not that well-known and lacks "classic" stories. In a way, I think the modern Ivy is a great character to add complexity to a cast and plot, but not that good as a solo lead.
> 
> A Gotham City Sirens movie trilogy as you envision could maybe work, but to me it would work against the medium. What is appealing about them to me is three damaged women finding healing and community together in a world that has hurt and rejected them. You need a balance between domestic plots and action plots. That's something really common in TV series, but seldom done in movies.


Ivy is Swamp Thing meets an edgier Frozen's Elsa. I think a lot can be done with her as a solo character (and there are plenty of classic Ivy stories, it's just that male-dominated geek sites don't give them their due as she's a female character and many of her best stories are written by women).

As for Gotham City Sirens, Ivy is easily the most cinematic of the three Sirens considering the scope of her powers and global ecosystem themes. Her complex psychology perfectly compliments her external imagery.

----------


## kjn

> Ivy is Swamp Thing meets an edgier Frozen's Elsa. I think a lot can be done with her as a solo character (and there are plenty of classic Ivy stories, it's just that male-dominated geek sites don't give them their due as she's a female character and many of her best stories are written by women).
> 
> As for Gotham City Sirens, Ivy is easily the most cinematic of the three Sirens considering the scope of her powers and global ecosystem themes. Her complex psychology perfectly compliments her external imagery.


Heh. Harley Quinn would map nicely onto Anna there in a Frozen/Gotham crossover. But that is still a two-lead movie (Anna and Elsa).

I'm not sure about how cinematic Ivy would be in a live-action movie (an animated one is a whole other kettle of fish). She is an enchantress, while live-action movies seems to handle more physically oriented characters better.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Heh. Harley Quinn would map nicely onto Anna there in a Frozen/Gotham crossover. But that is still a two-lead movie (Anna and Elsa).
> 
> I'm not sure about how cinematic Ivy would be in a live-action movie (an animated one is a whole other kettle of fish). She is an enchantress, while live-action movies seems to handle more physically oriented characters better.


_Annihilation_ was a great film that offered a taste of what an Ivy related movie could look and feel like.

----------


## vitaminbee

> So you assume a movie won't butcher the character, but the TV series will? I'm not sure there is historical evidence to back up that assertion: there is plenty of evidence of both butchering and non-butchering in both mediums.
> 
> I'm going with the assumption that a proposed TV series *or* movie will do a decent job with characterisation.
> 
> 
> 
> I was more thinking about the movie as a movie, ie ticket sales, people liking the movie, and building buzz for future movies, not secondary merchandising. And as a solo lead, Poison Ivy is tricky: she's not that well-known and lacks "classic" stories. In a way, I think the modern Ivy is a great character to add complexity to a cast and plot, but not that good as a solo lead.
> 
> A Gotham City Sirens movie trilogy as you envision could maybe work, but to me it would work against the medium. What is appealing about them to me is three damaged women finding healing and community together in a world that has hurt and rejected them. You need a balance between domestic plots and action plots. That's something really common in TV series, but seldom done in movies.


I'm more basing it on her actual powers being portrayed correctly. TV can be cheap and so they make her powers weaker/not have all the powers she usually has. Just look at Gotham. If Gotham City Sirens got made, then I'd expect it to be a little better visually than any of the DC tv series.

----------


## Confuzzled

_Batman #50_ variant cover by Tyler Kirkham



Interesting. I wonder if it means Ivy has an appearance in the issue or the artist just chose some favorites from the Rogues Gallery.

----------


## Frontier

> _Batman #50_ variant cover by Tyler Kirkham
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. I wonder if it means Ivy has an appearance in the issue or the artist just chose some favorites from the Rogues Gallery.


Too bad it's not a full-body shot so we could see what costume Ivy's wearing this week  :Stick Out Tongue: .

I wouldn't be surprised if she's at the wedding but I think the last point is probably accurate.

----------


## Caivu

She's also on Alé Garza's "Bridesmaids" variant for #50:

IMG_20180605_202125.jpg

----------


## Confuzzled

> She's also on Alé Garza's "Bridesmaids" variant for #50:
> 
> IMG_20180605_202125.jpg


Whoa, is she a bridesmaid at the wedding?

----------


## WontonGirl

> Whoa, is she a bridesmaid at the wedding?


Folks on Twitter are trying to figure that out. Some are saying that the cover doesn't always match the inside contents.

----------


## WontonGirl

> _Batman #50_ variant cover by Tyler Kirkham
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. I wonder if it means Ivy has an appearance in the issue or the artist just chose some favorites from the Rogues Gallery.


Here is the Bruce/Selina version: 

Tyler Kirkham Version 1.jpg

----------


## Confuzzled

The full Bridesmaids variant:

----------


## WontonGirl

> The full Bridesmaids variant:


These aren't necessary her "bridsmaids". This is just a cover for the store's exclusive. 

Tom said we will find out who all the Wedding Party is in Issue #50.

----------


## nonsense man

those four better be there at least

----------


## Confuzzled

> those four better be there at least


Yeah, I saw a _third_ variant with Harley on it. It will be annoyingly misleading if Ivy and Harley have nothing to do with the actual wedding or issue. I know they are just variants but these variants are expected to be very lucrative, so it would be nice if the artists were told not to draw characters who don't appear or aren't concerned in any way with the particular issue.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> those four better be there at least


Who are the other two bridesmaids?

----------


## nonsense man

The other two bridesmaids confirmed by most to be Holly and Lois Lane

----------


## WontonGirl

Here is another variant with Poison Ivy on it. It’s actually 3 connecting covers. 

30B4562C-C410-4026-97F7-02DDC7DD3963.jpg

----------


## Confuzzled

> Here is another variant with Poison Ivy on it. Its actually 3 connecting covers. 
> 
> 30B4562C-C410-4026-97F7-02DDC7DD3963.jpg


Nice. Who's the artist? I'll see if I can find a bigger version. And Frontier got his wish with wanting to see Ivy's latest costume of the week. This is yet another new design (I'm not counting her "bridesmaids variant" dress as a costume)  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Confuzzled

NVM, saw that the artist is Joe Mad from CBR's frontpage.



Also, CBR at least is under the impression that Ivy and the other ladies on the Bridesmaid variant ARE going to be Selina's bridal party in the actual issue as well. Do they know something we don't or has it been confirmed somewhere?

----------


## WontonGirl

> NVM, saw that the artist is Joe Mad from CBR's frontpage.
> 
> 
> 
> Also, CBR at least is under the impression that Ivy and the other ladies on the Bridesmaid variant ARE going to be Selina's bridal party in the actual issue as well. Do they know something we don't or has it been confirmed somewhere?


I’m going by what King said just last week. Now maybe they are in the party and it was revealed without King knowing.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I’m going by what King said just last week. Now maybe they are in the party and it was revealed without King knowing.


King said they aren't in the book?

----------


## WontonGirl

> King said they aren't in the book?


King said that we will find out who is in the wedding party in Batman #50 and not a moment sooner. So let’s just wait till we open the book and see.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> I’m going by what King said just last week. Now maybe they are in the party and it was revealed without King knowing.


I love all the different looks Ivy is getting. Dig this one a lot!

Harley on the other hand....I only like classic Harley....hate the Arkham games/Margot Robbie version. For me it looks like Clown Barbie and takes away the child like aspects of her that were so adorable in BTAS.

----------


## Confuzzled

J Scott Campbell's variant. This is the first time I think I've seen his Ivy (lol at Clayface and Penguin not being able to help themselves) 



It's one of five interconnecting covers

----------


## Agent Z

> J Scott Campbell's variant. This is the first time I think I've seen his Ivy (lol at Clayface and Penguin not being able to help themselves) 
> 
> 
> 
> It's one of five interconnecting covers


This.... doesn't look very good. And why is Pam bending her feet like she's wearing heels?

----------


## Confuzzled

> This.... doesn't look very good. And why is Pam bending her feet like she's wearing heels?


Whaa... I find it to be one of Campbell's better works. Didn't notice the feet though lol

----------


## Frontier

> This.... doesn't look very good. And why is Pam bending her feet like she's wearing heels?


Probably because she's posing I guess  :Stick Out Tongue: ?

----------


## Confuzzled

Well, it is no _Sanctuary_ ongoing with Ivy as a regular, but she is featured on the _Heroes in Crisis_ mini cover for issue #1, even if she's in the back with Selina, while "Fourth Pillar" Harley is up front.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> Whaa... I find it to be one of Campbell's better works. Didn't notice the feet though lol


I really liked it too. Specially the fact that Ivy is so front and center. 

This cover reminds of the Batman Hush heroes and villains posters.

----------


## Korath

So, for those of you who didn't read Damage 6, Ivy managed to break the mental influence that drove her to kill humans with Grodd... but it turns out that it wasn't the Gorilla who did this, but instead the Green itself if I understood Swamp Thing correctly. Apparently, the Green seek a more warlike Avatar and has picked on Ivy.

----------


## Confuzzled

> So, for those of you who didn't read Damage 6, Ivy managed to break the mental influence that drove her to kill humans with Grodd... but it turns out that it wasn't the Gorilla who did this, but instead the Green itself if I understood Swamp Thing correctly. *Apparently, the Green seek a more warlike Avatar and has picked on Ivy.*


Oh yikes! The Green sounds like Jennifer Lawrence's character from _mother!_  :Stick Out Tongue:  It will be interesting to see a confrontation between Ivy and a personification of The Green.

----------


## Confuzzled

_Batman# 50_ Michael Turner & Peter Steigerwald Aspen Comics Exclusive Variant

----------


## Confuzzled

Ivy's part of the first 5 characters kicking off Funko's new DC Super Heroes 5 Star line in August:

----------


## Korath

> Oh yikes! The Green sounds like Jennifer Lawrence's character from _mother!_  It will be interesting to see a confrontation between Ivy and a personification of The Green.


Well, Ivy is the warlike personification of the Green  :Stick Out Tongue: . or more accurately, green-skinned Ivy is the "evil" Ivy wanting to kill humans to save the plants, being influenced by the Green, while white-skinned Ivy is the "heroic" one, who wants to protect nature but also find a way to not wipe out mankind. At least, it's how it's depicted in Damage.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> _Batman# 50_ Michael Turner & Peter Steigerwald Aspen Comics Exclusive Variant





> Ivy's part of the first 5 characters kicking off Funko's new DC Super Heroes 5 Star line in August:
> 
> 
> 
> This art is gorgeous!


This is very cute. I don't collect statues normally but I may get Ivy and Harley.

----------


## Powertool

> _Batman# 50_ Michael Turner & Peter Steigerwald Aspen Comics Exclusive Variant


Ah, I see that the people at Aspen haven't finished extracting the marrow out of Michael Turner's long-decomposed corpse yet! What next? Selling the doodles he left on Dairy Queen napkins as "new, original, never-seen-before artwork"?  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Confuzzled

> Well, Ivy is the warlike personification of the Green . or more accurately, green-skinned Ivy is the "evil" Ivy wanting to kill humans to save the plants, being influenced by the Green, while white-skinned Ivy is the "heroic" one, who wants to protect nature but also find a way to not wipe out mankind. At least, it's how it's depicted in Damage.


Lol, shades of DCAU's "Flower Girl" twist with green skinned Ivy being a more evil version while regular skinned Ivy being more redeemable. So how did they depict the change from the green skin to white in Damage?

----------


## Korath

Basically, as Ivy was breaking the Green's influence (or Grodd's, it wasn't really clear) her skin turned white, and green when the Green/Grodd was ascendant.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Basically, as Ivy was breaking the Green's influence (or Grodd's, it wasn't really clear) her skin turned white, and green when the Green/Grodd was ascendant.


Okay, thanks  :Smile:  Maybe I should check it out but it seems too much of a rethread of other stories like Francis Manapul's Trinity opener, Everyone Loves Ivy and the aforementioned Flower Girl tale from the DCAU based comics.

----------


## Confuzzled

I'm a little nervous for Ivy going forward as the synopsis for _Heroes in Crisis_ hints that everyone in Sanctuary is murdered when the story starts. I hope I'm wrong though as I think it would be pointless for King to have such a character driven arc for Ivy in _Everyone Loves Ivy_, only to kill her off a few months later.

----------


## lucius121

> I'm a little nervous for Ivy going forward as the synopsis for _Heroes in Crisis_ hints that everyone in Sanctuary is murdered when the story starts. I hope I'm wrong though as I think it would be pointless for King to have such a character driven arc for Ivy in _Everyone Loves Ivy_, only to kill her off a few months later.


I agree it would be a massive disservice to the character to kill her off given Ivy’s recent development. However she is seen on the cover unlike the other robed anonymous heroes so I’m taking that as a positive.

----------


## Agent Z

> I'm a little nervous for Ivy going forward as the synopsis for _Heroes in Crisis_ hints that everyone in Sanctuary is murdered when the story starts. I hope I'm wrong though as I think it would be pointless for King to have such a character driven arc for Ivy in _Everyone Loves Ivy_, only to kill her off a few months later.


Actually I'm kind of worried about the possibility that she'll be the killer.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Actually I'm kind of worried about the possibility that she'll be the killer.


Maybe it will be an M. Night Shyamalan-esque twist where Ivy emits plant pheromones that drive people to kill themselves.  :Stick Out Tongue: 

On a serious note, I don't think she's the killer as it says Harley is one of the prime suspects for the murders, so it's unlikely Ivy will in any way frame or implicate Harley for her own crimes. Unless Ivy somehow commits the murders by accident?

----------


## Confuzzled

Lego's upcoming DC Super Heroes Set has a buildable Poison Ivy plant mecha  :Stick Out Tongue: 


[IMG]https://***********/batman-news.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/LEGO_SDCC_2018_Poisin_Ivy.jpeg?quality=85&strip=in  fo&ssl=1&w=657&h=505[/IMG]




> *76117 – Batman™ Mech vs. Poison Ivy™ Mech*
> 
> Launching January 1, 2019
> 
> Piece count 375
> 
> Price $39.99
> 
> Age 7+
> ...

----------


## Confuzzled

Synopsis for DC Universe's _Harley Quinn_ animated show:




> Harley Quinn follows Harley’s adventures after she breaks up with the Joker and strikes out on her own in this new adult animated comedy. *With the help of Poison Ivy and a ragtag crew of DC castoffs, Harley tries to earn a seat at the biggest table in villainy: the Legion of the Doom.*


I wonder if Ivy already has her seat at the Legion table.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Confuzzled

Another Michael Turner variant for #50

----------


## Green Ghost

I have found an yet unsolicited Harley/Ivy book on Previews website tying into Heroes in Crisis:



> DF *HARLEY QUINN POISON IVY SPECIAL #1* CGC GRADED
> Enter a veritable garden of delights in this Poison Ivy/Harley Quinn team-up that's a prelude to HEROES IN CRISIS! Besides the two Bat-tagonists sharing some much-needed time together, they will help introduce readers to Sanctuary, the secret hospital built to help heroes with PTSD and other traumas. Both antiheroines could use some therapy in the wake of tragedy, but they may lose their heads before they can heal their minds if a shadowy threat has its way. You may know writer Ram V. from the Image hit Paradiso, and Braga's a familiar name of DC COMICS BOMBSHELLS fame-that's a combo that makes this a must-investigate. FINAL COVER MAY VARY. ALLOCATIONS MAY OCCUR.


Source

----------


## Confuzzled

> I have found an yet unsolicited Harley/Ivy book on Previews website tying into Heroes in Crisis:
> 
> Source


Wow, a Harley & Ivy Sanctuary prelude to Heroes in Crisis is really cool (though nerve-wracking if Ivy is on the hitlist of a "shadowy figure"). And that's Laura Braga on artwork I presume. She seems to be pretty fond of drawing Ivy:

----------


## Green Ghost

> Wow, a Harley & Ivy Sanctuary prelude to Heroes in Crisis is really cool (though nerve-wracking if Ivy is on the hitlist of a "shadowy figure").


My fears that Ivy may be one of the victims came back, especially with this part: "but they may lose their heads before they can heal their minds if a shadowy threat has its way". This is probably the same threat that'll get its way and kill everybody...and we know that Harley makes it out alive.
Maybe Ivy left before somehow? I don't know, it is really nerve-wracking...

----------


## Confuzzled

> My fears that Ivy may be one of the victims came back, especially with this part: "but they may lose their heads before they can heal their minds if a shadowy threat has its way". This is probably the same threat that'll get its way and kill everybody...and we know that Harley makes it out alive.
> Maybe Ivy left before somehow? I don't know, it is really nerve-wracking...


The only respite right now is that while Harley looked peeved in the preview page for Heroes in Crisis, she didn't look as mad as she might if Ivy had been murdered. Fingers crossed Pam survives this ordeal. It seems like such an interesting new direction for her so it would tremendously SUCK if her journey ended before it even started.

----------


## kjn

> The only respite right now is that while Harley looked peeved in the preview page for Heroes in Crisis, she didn't look as mad as she might if Ivy had been murdered. Fingers crossed Pam survives this ordeal. It seems like such an interesting new direction for her so it would tremendously SUCK if her journey ended before it even started.


It would likely be possible to go the Groot route. Poison Ivy survives as a twig, and eg Catwoman and Harley Quinn raise her together.

Not saying this will (or ought to) happen, but it would really make for a special storyline.

----------


## Confuzzled

> It would likely be possible to go the Groot route. Poison Ivy survives as a twig, and eg Catwoman and Harley Quinn raise her together.
> 
> Not saying this will (or ought to) happen, but it would really make for a special storyline.


Lol. The _Gotham Girls_ webseries had an episode where it was the reverse (Harley accidentally snorted some of Ivy's "youth rejuvenation" pollen dust that turned her into a baby, that Ivy had to look/chase after).

----------


## kjn

> Lol. The _Gotham Girls_ webseries had an episode where it was the reverse (Harley accidentally snorted some of Ivy's "youth rejuvenation" pollen dust that turned her into a baby, that Ivy had to look/chase after).


Really fun little video! I liked the improvised baby car seat (though it should be reversed given the apparent age of Harley!), though I wonder if Poison Ivy would drive, given her set of values.

----------


## darkeyes

pi hot.jpg

Looks like Ivy is getting her first Hot Wheels car!

----------


## Confuzzled

It's not her hot pink "Rose" car from _Harley & Ivy_?  :Stick Out Tongue: 



McDonald's had a nifty Venus Flytrap car for her as part of the BTAS Happy Meal Series too:

----------


## Green Ghost

This chart is from DC Nation #2 and I don't know if the odds are in favor of Ivy surviving this: 
dcn2.jpg

What do you think?

Sorry the pic is to small, but you can download the issue for free.

----------


## Confuzzled

> This chart is from DC Nation #2 and I don't know if the odds are in favor of Ivy surviving this: 
> dcn2.jpg
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> Sorry the pic is to small, but you can download the issue for free.


Dang, the only women there are Wonder Woman and the Sirens. So if a lady is kicking it, it has to be Ivy as the other three have ongoing series, and well, Diana, Selina and Harley aren't going anywhere (also, we know that 2/3 characters who will be accused of murder are Harley and Booster Gold).

Please let both the murdered be dudes then. But if it's Ivy... cold. At least it will stop the whining about "_Everybody Loves Ivy_ being King pandering to Twitter fans". If Ivy dies, it will prove that it was nothing but a shameless setup for this series.

----------


## Green Ghost

> Dang, the only women there are Wonder Woman and the Sirens. So if a lady is kicking it, it has to be Ivy as the other three have ongoing series, and well, Diana, Selina and Harley aren't going anywhere (also, we know that 2/3 characters who will be accused of murder are Harley and Booster Gold).
> 
> Please let both the murdered be dudes then. But if it's Ivy... cold. At least it will stop the whining about "_Everybody Loves Ivy_ being King pandering to Twitter fans". If Ivy dies, it will prove that it was nothing but a shameless setup for this series.


Agree.

I really have the bad feeling she'll get fridged just to push Harley further into heroism...

----------


## Dylan Davison

Man, I'm worried about Ivy. They don't seem to know what to do with her lately, so I fear they may just kill her off. That will make a lot of fans mad. I'm sure she will be back, but still. I may cancel my DC pulls till they bring her back.

----------


## Green Ghost

> Man, I'm worried about Ivy. They don't seem to know what to do with her lately, so I fear they may just kill her off. That will make a lot of fans mad. I'm sure she will be back, but still. I may cancel my DC pulls till they bring her back.


Thinking about canceling too. I don't wanne hurt my LCS, but money is the only thing that publishers understand and I spend more than 100€ for DC Comics a month...we'll see.

I put together the thing that could contribute to her demise or survival:

*Why she could be killed*
- She's one of the few who official went to Sanctuary (along with Booster) before Heroes in Crisis started
- It would explain Harley's involvement and would give her a reason to fight
- The special says both Harley & Ivy are there facing a "shadowy threat" and could lose their heads (and we know that Harley's save)
- She still knows a lot of secrets from "Everyone loves Ivy" and they need to find a way to erase some/most
- A lot of heroes could still hold a grudge for the mind-control
- They could bring her back with a clear direction
- DC/writers could be tired of Ivy fans 

*Why she woun't be killed*
- She's on the cover
- They just pushed her in the heroic direction, just to kill her off with heroes? That would be weird
- They put alot of efford into editor notes to make her heroic arc work with Damage & BoP, they didn't need to do that if they're going to kill her off anyway
- "Everyone loves Ivy" shows her as a victim, so it would be kinda cruel
- Her death wouldn't effect the other heroes as much as a real hero
- If they kill her just for a motivation for Harley, this would be fridging
- She makes a lot of money with merchandise and here mini sold great in the long run
- She could've made it out before the event unfold, to show that Sanctuary works

Really not sure where they're heading with her

----------


## lucius121

To be honest Im not really buying the whole killing Ivy pushes Harley into heroism, I think killing Ivy would have the opposite effect.

----------


## Confuzzled

> - If they kill her just for a motivation for Harley, this would be fridging





> To be honest I’m not really buying the whole killing Ivy pushes Harley into heroism, I think killing Ivy would have the opposite effect.


Either way, that's just reducing and dooming Ivy's potential as a character in her own right to that of poor Tara from _Buffy the Vampire Slayer_. In Ivy's case, it would be much worse as she's been around as a character for near 30 years before Harley. And it's 2018. Even one of Buffy's creators regrets killing off Tara all those years back.

----------


## darkeyes

I hope there is more info released about the Birds of Prey movie at SDCC.  Will be interesting if Ivy is in it.

----------


## Green Ghost

Stjepan Sejic has teased the possibility of a Poison Ivy book. If his next (yet unannounced) project is a success he'll pitch an origin book for Ivy:



> so, recently a pitch of mine got approved at dc, and we'll be pushing that out next year. if it's good enough to find its audience and garners good faith and success, i know what my next pitch at dc will be (very rough placeholder sketch btw)




Source

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Stjepan Sejic has teased the possibility of a Poison Ivy book. If his next (yet unannounced) project is a success he'll pitch an origin book for Ivy:
> 
> 
> 
> Source


Well, guess whatever his new series is will be added to my pull haha. I do want him to do an Ivy series!

----------


## MentalManipulator

> I hope there is more info released about the Birds of Prey movie at SDCC.  Will be interesting if Ivy is in it.


Yep...I hope she is too...I was sad they preferred Birds of Prey instead of Gotham City Sirens. Catwoman and Ivy are for me the coolest female DC  female characters.

----------


## Celgress

> Well, guess whatever his new series is will be added to my pull haha. I do want him to do an Ivy series!


A definite add for me as well.

----------


## Confuzzled

Heck yeah, I'm buying Mr. Sejic's book! I remember when he used to post in this thread (don't remember if it was before or after the reset of 2014 though). Glad Ivy finally has a big creator superfan pushing for her prominence at DC.  :Smile:  

As an aside, does this mean she's hopefully surviving Heroes in Crisis? Unless SS is as in the dark about it as we are.

----------


## darkeyes

Have not seen too much new Ivy merch on the SDCC 2018 galleries, but this item from Jada Toys is nice.

jada 1.jpg

----------


## MentalManipulator

I was hoping to find more Ivy merch as well...I'm disappointed...I thought this year we would have news on her being in a movie... oh well.

I guess at least we'll see her in the new Harley series and the DC Super Hero Girls reboot...when is DC's TV panel?

----------


## Frontier

Here's Ivy in the upcoming _DC Super Hero Girls_ revamp:

----------


## darkeyes

At least she is in it, too bad they made her a villain again.  Doesn't look like there was any confirmation Ivy will be in the new Birds Of Prey Movie, unless someone heard otherwise.

----------


## Confuzzled

She looks like a shy, misguided antagonist so I don't think full on villain mode. She will probably be pushed around by the other "Bad Girls" kind of like Stormer and the Misfits from _Jem and the Holograms_.




> At least she is in it, too bad they made her a villain again.  Doesn't look like there was any confirmation Ivy will be in the new Birds Of Prey Movie, unless someone heard otherwise.


No. I kind of buy the theory that Margot Robbie doesn't want a sexier character like Ivy or Catwoman upstaging her Harley. Though I don't suppose David Ayer knocked it out of the park with his _Gotham City Sirens_ direction either.

----------


## darkeyes

I see they announced a Hush animated movie for 2019, so we will see some animated Ivy anyway.

----------


## Green Ghost

I like her new DC SuperHero Girls design, but I hope they treat her well and she isn't just there to give the good girls someone to throw around.

And I am kinda glad she isn't in the "Birds of Prey" movie. The movie will just be a vehicle for Harley and it already will introduce alot other characters. Personally I think they should introduce her in the Batgirl solo movie as an antagonist and have another bad guy be the villain so that Ivy can redeem herself.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> Here's Ivy in the upcoming _DC Super Hero Girls_ revamp:


Ok cool. I like her design here...for almost all of them, specially Ivy and Catwoman, my favourites. Star Sapphire actually looks too silly. I hope, even if she's shy that she'll be a big threat, very powerful. 




> She looks like a shy, misguided antagonist so I don't think full on villain mode. She will probably be pushed around by the other "Bad Girls" kind of like Stormer and the Misfits from _Jem and the Holograms_.
> 
> 
> 
> No. I kind of buy the theory that Margot Robbie doesn't want a sexier character like Ivy or Catwoman upstaging her Harley. Though I don't suppose David Ayer knocked it out of the park with his _Gotham City Sirens_ direction either.


Gosh I hate Margot Robbie Harley's so bad. She's the worst thing that happened to the character. Now she's the Alpha sexy bad girl, when she was supposed to be the crazy, loving, misunderstood and relatable one of the 3 Sirens. And now she has control over it as a producer. Well, the DCUC is a mess anyway so...




> I see they announced a Hush animated movie for 2019, so we will see some animated Ivy anyway.


Yay! Great news! Can't wait for it! Did we get pictures of it?




> I like her new DC SuperHero Girls design, but I hope they treat her well and she isn't just there to give the good girls someone to throw around.
> 
> And I am kinda glad she isn't in the "Birds of Prey" movie. The movie will just be a vehicle for Harley and it already will introduce alot other characters. Personally I think they should introduce her in the Batgirl solo movie as an antagonist and have another bad guy be the villain so that Ivy can redeem herself.


You are right. The villain in Batgirl would be the ideal place for her to start.

----------


## Green Ghost

Just found another article for Heroes in Crisis with possible another hint at Ivy's fate:



> Harley Quinn, King said at his spotlight panel at San Diego Comic-Con, is around to support her lover, Poison Ivy, deal with a recent breakdown (and bid for global domination).


Source

This doesn't bode well for her survival. Maybe Ivy left without Harley knowing or Harley got treatment after Ivy, but all this seems more of a stretch right now than Ivy being fridged...

----------


## Confuzzled

What happened to that Harley & Ivy Heroes in Crisis/Sanctuary tie-in special from Ram V. and Laura Braga? It's not in DC's October solicits but the writer has a story in the Batman Secret Files anthology.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Just found another article for Heroes in Crisis with possible another hint at Ivy's fate:
> 
> Source
> 
> This doesn't bode well for her survival. Maybe Ivy left without Harley knowing or Harley got treatment after Ivy, but all this seems more of a stretch right now than Ivy being fridged...


Yeah, I feel fridging Ivy just to motivate Harley would cheapen the _entire_ concept of Sanctuary and render it null and void. Let's hope King knows and does better.

----------


## Frontier

> Yeah, I feel fridging Ivy just to motivate Harley would cheapen the _entire_ concept of Sanctuary and render it null and void. Let's hope King knows and does better.


I feel the same way if they also kill Roy Harper.

----------


## Green Ghost

> What happened to that Harley & Ivy Heroes in Crisis/Sanctuary tie-in special from Ram V. and Laura Braga? It's not in DC's October solicits but the writer has a story in the Batman Secret Files anthology.


Good question. Maybe they pushed it back because it could spoil too much?




> Yeah, I feel fridging Ivy just to motivate Harley would cheapen the _entire_ concept of Sanctuary and render it null and void. Let's hope King knows and does better.


I don't think he cares about backlash and Didio and his fans have his back no matter what controversal decision.




> I feel the same way if they also kill Roy Harper.


I think he'll be the second prominent victim along with Ivy, because of their connection to the suspects (Harley & Wally) and the facts that both are at Sanctuary.

----------


## Green Ghost

Sorry for the double post, but the forums seems pretty buggy today.

----------


## Confuzzled

Upcoming _DC Super Hero Girls_ show director Jenn Kluska on the show's portrayal of Ivy:




> We also have Poison Ivy. She’s the waif, the recluse. As a teen, we always say that she’s kind of like The-Breakfast-Club-Ally-Sheedy hair-in-the face, possibly-talking-to-a-potted-plant, sort of character.


I wonder if she will have plant pheromone dandruff in her hair then.  :Stick Out Tongue: 



*@Frontier*, so they basically made her into Homecoming MJ, huh?

----------


## Frontier

> Upcoming _DC Super Hero Girls_ show director Jenn Kluska on the show's portrayal of Ivy:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if she will have plant pheromone dandruff in her hair then. 
> 
> 
> 
> *@Frontier*, so they basically made her into Homecoming MJ, huh?


It's kind of interesting that she's with the villains again in this interpretation of DCSHG, but she's still not using the typical Ivy characterization (probably, I guess, because the other villain girls have those traits).

----------


## Dylan Davison

Guys, what if they kill her off, so that they can bring her back and reboot her a bit? Maybe the green brings her back, cause it knows it needs two warriors or something? Wishful thinking, maybe? Haha

----------


## Confuzzled

> It's kind of interesting that she's with the villains again in this interpretation of DCSHG, but she's still not using the typical Ivy characterization (probably, I guess, because the other villain girls have those traits).


That and... a 15-16 year old seductress girl called Poison Ivy brings back some barely legal Drew Barrymore erotica flashes that I'm sure DCSHG creators are trying their hardest to avoid.  :Stick Out Tongue: 




> Guys, what if they kill her off, so that they can bring her back and reboot her a bit? Maybe the green brings her back, cause it knows it needs two warriors or something? Wishful thinking, maybe? Haha


I mean, IF they do kill her in HiC, then hopefully that's the plan for her in the long run. Especially as creators like Stjepan Sejic want to write a solo series for her. A hint of her return or even her actual return at the end of HiC would be a reprieve in case the worst case scenario comes to pass.

----------


## Frontier

> That and... a 15-16 year old seductress girl called Poison Ivy brings back some barely legal Drew Barrymore erotica flashes that I'm sure DCSHG creators are trying their hardest to avoid. .


I wasn't expecting the seductress, moreso just a confident, powerful, and take-charge woman with environmentalist leanings.

----------


## lucius121

So according to https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/08...ill-die-there/ Ivy does not die in Sanctuary. So yay?

----------


## kjn

> I wasn't expecting the seductress, moreso just a confident, powerful, and take-charge woman with environmentalist leanings.


On the other hand, there is something to be said to present a variety of personalities with the characters, and in many ways Catwoman is better suited for the confident, powerful, and take-charge personality. The modern Poison Ivy is much better suited to being withdrawn and bookish, but at the same time passionate about plants and the environment, and willing and able to speak up and take charge on those issues. I believe a lot of people can relate to that type of character.

----------


## Green Ghost

> So according to https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/08...ill-die-there/ Ivy does not die in Sanctuary. So yay?


Yay! I'm still careful, but for now I'm relieved.

----------


## Confuzzled

Okay, that's a relief for now as Bleeding Cool tends to be legit when it comes to the comics side of things.

Also, while I don't want to unnecessarily raise hopes up, David Ayer tweeted a photo of himself with Paul Dini. The speculations immediately turned towards a Sirens movie, as Ayer kept saying GCS is still in development and it wasn't officially cancelled. One of the writers for a more legit outlet replied that Sirens as a movie may very much still be possible as WB wants a movie featuring Harley every year: https://twitter.com/DanielRPK/status...35849388064768

----------


## Dylan Davison

> So according to https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/08...ill-die-there/ Ivy does not die in Sanctuary. So yay?


I will remain positive, but only so positive. Just cause she's not on that image, doesn't mean she's not the one.

----------


## Dylan Davison

Here's an interesting article. I'm hoping they're right!

https://www.newsarama.com/41746-if-p...amp-thing.html

----------


## Confuzzled

> Here's an interesting article. I'm hoping they're right!
> 
> https://www.newsarama.com/41746-if-p...amp-thing.html


Whoa! It aligns with what Stjepan Sejic has been teasing though. And he's shown an interest in writing an Ivy who is the Avatar of the Green, with Swamp Thing guiding her:

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Whoa! It aligns with what Stjepan Sejic has been teasing though. And he's shown an interest in writing an Ivy who is the Avatar of the Green, with Swamp Thing guiding her:


I would read a book called The Green, where he trains Ivy while he starts to become a member of the parliament of trees.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I would read a book called The Green, where he trains Ivy while he starts to become a member of the parliament of trees.


Better alternatives are _Poison Ivy: Avatar of the Green_ or even _Poison Ivy & Swamp Thing_!

----------


## juan678

line it drawn 



Batman and Poison Ivy by Robson Rocha

----------


## Confuzzled

> So according to https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/08...ill-die-there/ Ivy does not die in Sanctuary. So yay?


Now BC is claiming the earlier news that she survives may just be "internal misdirection" and she may bite it after all: https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/09...eath-spoilers/

They claim to confirm two other Sanctuary deaths though:*spoilers:*
Hotspot and Roy Harper
*end of spoilers*

----------


## MentalManipulator

If true it will be a major bummer.

----------


## MajorHoy

from *Detective Comics Annual #2* (1989)

----------


## kjn

Another wonderful image by Stjepan Sejic (nebezial):

DhKDN1BW4AA-ZkE.jpg

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Another wonderful image by Stjepan Sejic (nebezial):
> 
> DhKDN1BW4AA-ZkE.jpg


I really want him to do an Ivy series! That and I would love Amy Chu to do another one lol. Maybe together?

----------


## MajorHoy

Remember when life was so much simpler?

----------


## Green Ghost

So for Ivy in Heroes in Crisis #1:

She wasn't in it nor was her fate revealed. 
There are still unidentified bodies, so chances are she could be one of them and they save the reveal for the next issue...

----------


## kjn

> I really want him to do an Ivy series! That and I would love Amy Chu to do another one lol. Maybe together?


In a way, I'm not sure he draws Ivy all that well, but he does have an excellent grasp of her personality, and her dynamic with Harley Quinn. That image alone says more than lots of entire comics.

Though given that he has a kinky streak a mile wide, I wish that he'd get the chance to go all out with a limited-series Wonder Woman tribute to Marston.

----------


## Confuzzled

> So for Ivy in Heroes in Crisis #1:
> 
> She wasn't in it nor was her fate revealed. 
> *There are still unidentified bodies, so chances are she could be one of them and they save the reveal for the next issue...*


Let's hope not. This tease from DC Nation #2 had said two of the characters pictured would be murdered, which we now know are Wally and Roy.



Of that bunch, Ivy is the lone redhead left now, so no ginger massacre please.  :Stick Out Tongue:  Interestingly, the teaser claims THREE of those characters will be accused as you can see. So Booster Gold, Harley and... Ivy? Are _both_ women MIA from Sanctuary, which leads the surviving heroes to think they were in cahoots and responsible for the massacre? If so, where is Ivy? Does Harley know where she is or is she as in the dark as the rest?

----------


## Green Ghost

> Let's hope not. This tease from DC Nation #2 had said two of the characters pictured would be murdered, which we now know are Wally and Roy.
> 
> 
> 
> Of that bunch, Ivy is the lone redhead left now, so no ginger massacre please.  Interestingly, the teaser claims THREE of those characters will be accused as you can see. So Booster Gold, Harley and... Ivy? Are _both_ women MIA from Sanctuary, which leads the surviving heroes to think they were in cahoots and responsible for the massacre? If so, *where is Ivy?* Does Harley know where she is or is she as in the dark as the rest?


Yeah, that's the burning question! 

Right now I have the feeling one could be a fakeout and that Ivy will be the real victim, because they only revealed half the victims so they could save some more shocks for issue #2.

Ivy as a former villain would be an obvious suspect. But because King erased her complete killing record, it would be weird to do all that just to make her a muderer again. But who knows, King is known for ignoring the history of characters. 

I don't know, I want to be optimistic and maybe everything will be fine by the end of the series but the thing that we'll still get Harley's worst moment has me worried as an Ivy fan...

----------


## Confuzzled

I think there may be an Ivy reference we missed in HiC #1:



The "with my..." part in the first panel... Was Harley going to say "I saw you with my *Red/Ivy*"? (her fingers are even reaching out towards a flower as she says this)  

Would that mean she believes she saw Booster Gold with Ivy's body/killing Ivy or did she mean both she and Ivy saw Booster Gold "with all" the other bodies at Sanctuary? Just speculating but seems kind of grim.

----------


## Confuzzled

On to some pleasant news for a change, Tasia Valenza confirmed she will be returning to voice Ivy in the Lego DC Super Villains Game!

----------


## Frontier

> On to some pleasant news for a change, Tasia Valenza confirmed she will be returning to voice Ivy in the Lego DC Super Villains Game!


I thought that sounded like her in the Ivy promo  :Smile: .

----------


## kjn

I guess this describes Poison Ivy's mood visavi DC at times:

poison_ivy-plants.jpg

Image by Stjepan Sejic.

----------


## Frontier

> I guess this describes Poison Ivy's mood visavi DC at times:
> 
> poison_ivy-plants.jpg
> 
> Image by Stjepan Sejic.


Or her fans  :Stick Out Tongue: .

----------


## kjn

> Or her fans .


Oh, that's easy.

poison_ivy1.jpg

(Also by Stjepan Sejic.)

----------


## Confuzzled

> I guess this describes Poison Ivy's mood visavi DC at times:
> 
> poison_ivy-plants.jpg
> 
> Image by Stjepan Sejic.


If Didio is the cacti it will respond with "Harley's waifu. Now quit your cribbing and make her a meatloaf, woman".

----------


## Nite-Wing

Ivy makes her debut on DC Universe with this Harley Quinn clip
A bit too deadpan Daria for my taste but nice 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBrVLmLsHBQ
Animation looks good too so they put some money behind this show

----------


## MajorHoy



----------


## ross61

> Ivy makes her debut on DC Universe with this Harley Quinn clip
> A bit too deadpan Daria for my taste but nice 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBrVLmLsHBQ
> *Animation looks good too so they put some money behind this show*


This is really aimed at you but moreso this widespread belief that if you throw more money at something that it will be better animated. It will not, it's all about the animation studio. And I can pretty much guarantee that it is one of the regular studios that WB uses. 

Just wanted to clarify that

----------


## Green Ghost

> I think there may be an Ivy reference we missed in HiC #1:
> 
> 
> 
> The "with my..." part in the first panel... Was Harley going to say "I saw you with my *Red/Ivy*"? (her fingers are even reaching out towards a flower as she says this)  
> 
> Would that mean she believes she saw Booster Gold with Ivy's body/killing Ivy or did she mean both she and Ivy saw Booster Gold "with all" the other bodies at Sanctuary? Just speculating but seems kind of grim.


Yeah, the flower thing also caught my attention. I think we'll find out she's dead in the next issue, because Harley will be confronted by the trinity and it'll most likely come up.

Also Didio just said “It’s gonna get worse for Wally West”, which adds speculation his death being a fake-out and the early rumors regarding his role in HiC.

----------


## Confuzzled

Bleeding Cool has put out an article on the mysterious disappearance of one Pamela Lillian Isley: 

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/10...one-dc-comics/

These two paragraphs in particular are on point...




> DC has been using Poison Ivy as a very successful promotional tool. She appears in expensive variant covers, prints, merchandise, clothing lines, toys, costumes, school bags, pens, pencils, glasses, cosmetics, the list goes on. The list is endless. She is one of the characters with the most merchandise available. Why? Because she sells. Her image sells. And DC knows that. And they use her image to sell things and make a profit. She will also co-star in the upcoming Harley Quinn animated series. So… where is she?
> 
> I know this will annoy a lot of people but it IS a bit (or a lot) sexist to use an image of a sexy woman in order to sell things and not give the character the opportunities to grow. To be involved in the DC Universe. To get stories. But hey. Even if you disagree with my argument about sexism… wouldn’t you dudes and dudettes like to see a sexy redhead kick some ass in a comic book?

----------


## kjn

Good questions in that article.

I think there are a couple of different possible outlines to answers for that, that I think interconnect with and reinforce each other.

One is that Poison Ivy, as she has developed lately, doesn't have a strong core of what her character is to be. You have her Circe model, but there she is fundamentally reactive and mostly wants to be left alone, like in _Cycle of Life and Death_. Then she can go all out in supervillainy, but then she ends up being far too powerful for most stories, like in _Everybody Loves Ivy_. And then you have the anti-villain, like in _When Pamela Gets Blue_. Last there are the hints that she is being groomed as Swamp Thing's replacement. I'm not sure DC really knows what they are supposed to do with her character right now, power- and storywise.

Second is her relationship with Harley Quinn. In effect, Ivy ended up being used as a plot device to pry Harley loose from the Joker, making sure that Harley could be used to maximum marketability. But I also think that there are more conservative elements within DC who are uncomfortable with same-sex relationships, and then you have the general DC issue with relationships in general. Again, this leaves Ivy at loose ends.

Third is that I wouldn't be surprised at all if DC higher-ups more or less automatically discount female characters unless they really make them sit up and take notice about sales. And it is too easy to dismiss any pitches as not fitting the character due to her slightly schizophrenic current nature.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Good questions in that article.
> 
> I think there are a couple of different possible outlines to answers for that, that I think interconnect with and reinforce each other.
> 
> One is that Poison Ivy, as she has developed lately, doesn't have a strong core of what her character is to be. You have her Circe model, but there she is fundamentally reactive and mostly wants to be left alone, like in _Cycle of Life and Death_. Then she can go all out in supervillainy, but then she ends up being far too powerful for most stories, like in _Everybody Loves Ivy_. And then you have the anti-villain, like in _When Pamela Gets Blue_. Last there are the hints that she is being groomed as Swamp Thing's replacement. I'm not sure DC really knows what they are supposed to do with her character right now, power- and storywise.
> 
> Second is her relationship with Harley Quinn. In effect, Ivy ended up being used as a plot device to pry Harley loose from the Joker, making sure that Harley could be used to maximum marketability. But I also think that there are more conservative elements within DC who are uncomfortable with same-sex relationships, and then you have the general DC issue with relationships in general. Again, this leaves Ivy at loose ends.
> 
> Third is that I wouldn't be surprised at all if DC higher-ups more or less automatically discount female characters unless they really make them sit up and take notice about sales. And it is too easy to dismiss any pitches as not fitting the character due to her slightly schizophrenic current nature.


A great summary of theories regarding the strange treatment of Ivy over the past few years. I think ALL of them play into it to some extent or the other. And even when female characters destroy sales, there is still confusion with what to do with them, as seen with the cluelessness regarding Wonder Woman even after how stupendous a year 2017 was for her.

The crazy thing is, there already is a rough template for Ivy playing a more prominent role: Emma Frost. This doesn't mean I'm saying she should become a Frost clone (especially when ideology/worldview wise Ivy is closer to Magneto than Emma). But that is the general direction DC could go with her for a morally ambiguous anti-heroine sexy femme. Edgier than Catwoman and none of the goofball antics of Harley Quinn.

----------


## kjn

> A great summary of theories regarding the strange treatment of Ivy over the past few years. I think ALL of them play into it to some extent or the other. And even when female characters destroy sales, there is still confusion with what to do with them, as seen with the cluelessness regarding Wonder Woman even after how stupendous a year 2017 was for her.


Funny you should mention Wonder Woman. Looking at Ivy today, with her power set and her natural connection to ecofeminism, she makes a lot more sense within Wonder Woman's supporting cast rather than Batman's.

But I'm not sure you can be edgier than Catwoman—she has those claws for a reason…

----------


## Confuzzled

Lol this mock Batman #181 cover by way of Batman '66 by Tim Shinn made me laugh:

----------


## Frontier

> Lol this mock Batman #181 cover by way of Batman '66 by Tim Shinn made me laugh:


Southern Belle '66 Ivy was a fun one  :Smile: .

----------


## Green Ghost

Heroes in Crisis #2 Preview shows Poison Ivy's confession:
hic-2-1-1540415145688.jpg

So her fate will be revealed in this issue and most likely means she was killed in the massacre.

I don't want to judge it too early, but this page shows what bothers me for years: We barely get Ivy stories without Harley. While Harley get dozends of stories for herself, writers feel the need to put Harley in Ivy's stories or it has to be explained why Harley isn't there. 
This page was supposed to be about Ivy, but even that got highjacked by Harley. And since HiC is about her anywhere, Ivy's death will just be a gimmick to motivate Harley.

It's frustrating...

----------


## Mistah K88

I actually agree with you. Ivy has been treated like Harley's sidekick for years now... I think it's time for Ivy to...branch out... keep Harley away for a while. Let Ivy be her own character again.

----------


## Frontier

> Heroes in Crisis #2 Preview shows Poison Ivy's confession:
> hic-2-1-1540415145688.jpg
> 
> So her fate will be revealed in this issue and most likely means she was killed in the massacre.
> 
> I don't want to judge it too early, but this page shows what bothers me for years: We barely get Ivy stories without Harley. While Harley get dozends of stories for herself, writers feel the need to put Harley in Ivy's stories or it has to be explained why Harley isn't there. 
> This page was supposed to be about Ivy, but even that got highjacked by Harley. And since HiC is about her anywhere, Ivy's death will just be a gimmick to motivate Harley.
> 
> It's frustrating...


One thing I liked about Chu's "Cycle of Life and Death" is that she wrote Harley out pretty quickly  :Stick Out Tongue: .

----------


## Jackalope89

She was a key part in the first arc of Trinity Rebirth. And not a mention of Harley.

----------


## lucius121

She was also in batgirl damage and birds of prey with no mention of Harley. In fact the only books she really shown with Harley are Harley’s solo and her appearance in King’s Batman The others are out of continuity. Even when they both appeared in metal there was no interaction between them. But hey it’s fun to hate on Harley especially on this forum. 


That being said I’m not very happy with this preview as it’s almost guaranteed that Ivy is going to die, killing off Ivy is a terrible idea especially as it seems that primary reason is as some kind of emotional trauma for Harley. The whole thing is messed up.

----------


## kjn

> She was a key part in the first arc of Trinity Rebirth. And not a mention of Harley.


One can always find exceptions, but I have the same impression as Green Ghost and Mistah K88. It might thus be of interest to do some statistics, using the DC wikia.

Since New 52 (Prime Earth), Harley Quinn has 337 appearances, and Poison Ivy 158 appearances. Both are quite healthy numbers. I saved both lists as text and ran a diff; Harley Quinn had 264 unique appearances, and Poison Ivy 85. In 73 issues both appeared.

As a control, I added in Catwoman, with 232 appearances, as she is associated with both of them. Compared to Harley Quinn, Catwoman had 194 unique appearances, and Harley Quinn 299 unique appearances. They shared 38 appearances. Compared to Poison Ivy, Catwoman had 177 unique appearances, and Poison Ivy 103 unique appearances. They shared 55 appearances. In 30 issues, all three appeared, so 43 are Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn only, 25 are Poison Ivy and Catwoman only, and 8 are Harley Quinn and Catwoman only.

Note: this counts every appearance, even simple mentions, flashbacks, or being present in a single frame, up to being the protagonist or primary antagonist. More granular data would require manual checking of every issue.

From this, Poison Ivy is about as likely to appear alone as together with Harley Quinn, while Harley Quinn appears three times as often by herself compared to Poison Ivy, and Poison Ivy also often appears in association with Catwoman. Harley Quinn is in comparison more independent of both. But Poison Ivy is still associated more strongly with the Gotham City Sirens concept than either Catwoman or Harley Quinn, with only 60 appearances without either of them. The matching number for Harley Quinn is 254, and for Catwoman 169, if I'm keeping my numbers under control.

So I'd say that both views are correct here: Poison Ivy still has a decent independent presence, but she is very often used together in association with either Harley Quinn or Catwoman, or both.

----------


## Confuzzled

> One can always find exceptions, but I have the same impression as Green Ghost and Mistah K88. It might thus be of interest to do some statistics, using the DC wikia.
> 
> Since New 52 (Prime Earth), Harley Quinn has 337 appearances, and Poison Ivy 158 appearances. Both are quite healthy numbers. I saved both lists as text and ran a diff; Harley Quinn had 264 unique appearances, and Poison Ivy 85. In 73 issues both appeared.
> 
> As a control, I added in Catwoman, with 232 appearances, as she is associated with both of them. Compared to Harley Quinn, Catwoman had 194 unique appearances, and Harley Quinn 299 unique appearances. They shared 38 appearances. Compared to Poison Ivy, Catwoman had 177 unique appearances, and Poison Ivy 103 unique appearances. They shared 55 appearances. In 30 issues, all three appeared, so 43 are Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn only, 25 are Poison Ivy and Catwoman only, and 8 are Harley Quinn and Catwoman only.
> 
> Note: this counts every appearance, even simple mentions, flashbacks, or being present in a single frame, up to being the protagonist or primary antagonist. More granular data would require manual checking of every issue.
> 
> From this, Poison Ivy is about as likely to appear alone as together with Harley Quinn, while Harley Quinn appears three times as often by herself compared to Poison Ivy, and Poison Ivy also often appears in association with Catwoman. Harley Quinn is in comparison more independent of both. But Poison Ivy is still associated more strongly with the Gotham City Sirens concept than either Catwoman or Harley Quinn, with only 60 appearances without either of them. The matching number for Harley Quinn is 254, and for Catwoman 169, if I'm keeping my numbers under control.
> ...


Neat research.

TBF I don't think people have a problem with Ivy sharing panel time with Catwoman as the two women are usually portrayed as equals like any other superhero team-up such as Batman/Superman, Spider-Man/Human Torch etc. 

However, when Ivy is associated with Harley, more often than not Ivy is literally reduced to Harley's supporting character, whether in a love interest capacity or just as a BFF. That dynamic is what throws people off and is annoying. The closest parallel I have seen to this is again Emma Frost on the Marvel side. She is usually portrayed as a strong, standalone character in her own right, but when she was paired with Cyclops, some Emma fans felt she was being reduced to his supporting character. But those instances weren't anywhere to the same degree as how much Ivy is underplayed when she appears with Harley IMO.

----------


## Confuzzled

> Heroes in Crisis #2 Preview shows Poison Ivy's confession:
> hic-2-1-1540415145688.jpg
> 
> So her fate will be revealed in this issue and most likely means she was killed in the massacre.
> 
> I don't want to judge it too early, but this page shows what bothers me for years: We barely get Ivy stories without Harley. While Harley get dozends of stories for herself, writers feel the need to put Harley in Ivy's stories or it has to be explained why Harley isn't there. 
> This page was supposed to be about Ivy, but even that got highjacked by Harley. And since HiC is about her anywhere, Ivy's death will just be a gimmick to motivate Harley.
> 
> It's frustrating...


Sigh, looks like the theories were right from the start. C'mon DC, still holding out for you proving me wrong.

At least Clay Mann's Ivy is serving some _Riverdale_ Cheryl Blossom vibes though.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> Sigh, looks like the theories were right from the start. C'mon DC, still holding out for you proving me wrong.
> 
> At least Clay Mann's Ivy is serving some _Riverdale_ Cheryl Blossom vibes though.


She really does.

It's a real shame she's likely going to die. Ivy is my favorite DC character but I stopped reading comics with her since she started being Ivy's support/sidekick. I love Harley and I love them together but Ivy has gigantic potential and is underused.

I blame Margot Robbie's casting. She made the character this sexy bomb instead of the dizzy/fun/crazy gal fro BTAS. I'm sure the Sirens movie got strapped because Robbie didn't want to star next to two other character that are historically sexier then Harley.

----------


## Confuzzled

> She really does.
> 
> It's a real shame she's likely going to die. Ivy is my favorite DC character but I stopped reading comics with her since she started being Harley's support/sidekick. I love Harley and I love them together but Ivy has gigantic potential and is underused.
> 
> I blame Margot Robbie's casting. She made the character this sexy bomb instead of the dizzy/fun/crazy gal fro BTAS. I'm sure the Sirens movie got strapped because Robbie didn't want to star next to two other character that are historically sexier then Harley.


A possibility. Or maybe she felt a Sirens film would be riskier and bring about comparisons to _Batman and Robin_ and the _Catwoman_ solo movie if the characters are cheesecaked. Bloggers are claiming David Ayer's script was apparently weaker than the Birds of Prey script too, which was why execs decided to go with BoP instead.

----------


## Confuzzled

Maybe there is a sliver of hope? Tom King tweeted this out:




> Getting a lot of tweets from Ivy fans asking about Poison Ivy in HiC. They are, every one, as polite as they are passionate. 
> 
> I don't like commenting on an ongoing story. But I wanted to say how much I appreciate the tone and zeal of these awesome nerds.

----------


## Confuzzled

And uh, apparently he compared Harley & Ivy's relationship to that of Lois and Clark: https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/10...nn-lois-clark/

So... is Ivy supposed to be Kal-El here?  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## kjn

> Neat research.
> 
> TBF I don't think people have a problem with Ivy sharing panel time with Catwoman as the two women are usually portrayed as equals like any other superhero team-up such as Batman/Superman, Spider-Man/Human Torch etc. 
> 
> However, when Ivy is associated with Harley, more often than not Ivy is literally reduced to Harley's supporting character, whether in a love interest capacity or just as a BFF. That dynamic is what throws people off and is annoying.


Thanks!

And yes, the analysis I did was about as crude as it gets to studying character dynamics. But if someone wants to go deeper and check into individual issues, it can provide a way to cut down on the initial grunt work. I still have the raw files around, if someone wants to get lists of possible issues to check. Just PM me, so I don't clutter the forum with long lists.

(I'd probably limit this to a fixed number of issues, with equal amounts of all three Sirens present, Ivy only, Ivy and Harley Quinn, and Ivy and Catwoman, and looking at how Ivy was presented in each of them both qualitatively and quantitatively.)

But yeah, I agree that I find Poison Ivy underused. Of the three female archetypes that the Sirens represent, Ivy comes from both the oldest and the one that has been developed and changed the most, and to me the most interesting.

ETA:




> Maybe there is a sliver of hope? Tom King tweeted this out:


Hey! He says Ivy fans are polite and passionate! I think that speaks good of Ivy's fanbase.

On the other hand, there is something that sticks in my craw if everyone at the Sanctuary was brutally murdered but Ivy, about how plot armour and character relationships shape the story (on the other hand, I found the wholesale massacre was rather in poor taste as well; I think a proper locked room myster would have been more interesting).




> And uh, apparently he compared Harley & Ivy's relationship to that of Lois and Clark: https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/10...nn-lois-clark/
> 
> So... is Ivy supposed to be Kal-El here?


I'm not sure he compares Ivy and Harley to Lois and Clark, rather that their respective relationships have a similar importance to the DC universe. If one were to look into parallels within the relationship, I'd rather say that Lois and Ivy play similar roles as anchors (to humanity and morality respectively) for Superman and Harley Quinn.

I'm not sure I agree with him there, but the mere fact that he mentions Ivy and Harley in the same sentence as Lois and Clark says something.

----------


## Confuzzled

> But yeah, I agree that I find Poison Ivy underused. Of the three female archetypes that the Sirens represent, Ivy comes from both the oldest and the one that has been developed and changed the most, and to me the most interesting.


The Sirens concept itself is very interesting, and it would have great potential now when all three characters have changed so much from when GCS ran in 2009-11. I wish it were resurrected. Unless we get an Ivy solo book by Stjepan Sejic which would be awesome.





> Hey! He says Ivy fans are polite and passionate! I think that speaks good of Ivy's fanbase.


Then you would be even more pleased with Mikel Janin's reply:  :Stick Out Tongue: 

https://twitter.com/mikeljanin/statu...88495997280256




> On the other hand, there is something that sticks in my craw if everyone at the Sanctuary was brutally murdered but Ivy, about how plot armour and character relationships shape the story (on the other hand, I found the wholesale massacre was rather in poor taste as well; I think a proper locked room myster would have been more interesting).


I think Ivy's popularity will be the reason if she is spared but I agree that Ivy and most of the other Sanctuary patients shouldn't have been put in this situation in the first place.




> I'm not sure he compares Ivy and Harley to Lois and Clark, rather that their respective relationships have a similar importance to the DC universe. If one were to look into parallels within the relationship, I'd rather say that Lois and Ivy play similar roles as anchors (to humanity and morality respectively) for Superman and Harley Quinn.
> 
> I'm not sure I agree with him there, but the mere fact that he mentions Ivy and Harley in the same sentence as Lois and Clark says something.


I kind of think Harley is in the Lois role by tethering Ivy to her humanity while Ivy is the Superman of the relationship by saving Harley when she's in peril.  :Smile: 

It is an interesting comparison though and I'm surprised that King gave it so much thought. Hopefully it's not just lip service and he fleshes out the relationship.

----------


## kjn

> The Sirens concept itself is very interesting, and it would have great potential now when all three characters have changed so much from when GCS ran in 2009-11. I wish it were resurrected. Unless we get an Ivy solo book by Stjepan Sejic which would be awesome.


Yeah, I think both the original Birds of Prey (with Oracle) and Gotham City Sirens were both valuable and interesting concepts. GCS suffered a lot from the extremely cheesecake art, but it was a serious attempt to write female friendship in a genre that has far too few women in it (both as creators and characters).

ETA: I agree that a Poison Ivy run by Sejic would be interesting, either solo, with Swamp Thing, or a Harley-Ivy run. I think he could do all very well. But even more I wish DC would do a real effort in bringing in more women creators. Declare 2020 to be the Women of DC year, where every female-led title would have at least a female writer.




> I kind of think Harley is in the Lois role by tethering Ivy to her humanity while Ivy is the Superman of the relationship by saving Harley when she's in peril. 
> 
> It is an interesting comparison though and I'm surprised that King gave it so much thought. Hopefully it's not just lip service and he fleshes out the relationship.


It says something about the storytelling potential of the Harley-Ivy relation that we point out all these things  :Smile: 

Tom King's note also points out a bit on his strengths and interests as a writer. He seems much more into the relationship and dynamics between characters rather than the characters themselves or the story.

----------


## MentalManipulator

> A possibility. Or maybe she felt a Sirens film would be riskier and bring about comparisons to _Batman and Robin_ and the _Catwoman_ solo movie if the characters are cheesecaked. Bloggers are claiming David Ayer's script was apparently weaker than the Birds of Prey script too, which was why execs decided to go with BoP instead.


I think it is a combination of factors. But we cannot not consider an actors ego and negotiation power when it comes to making these kind of commercial movies. Look at what Jennifer Lawrence made with the X-Men Franchise and the characters of Mystique.

----------


## Green Ghost

> One can always find exceptions, but I have the same impression as Green Ghost and Mistah K88. It might thus be of interest to do some statistics, using the DC wikia.
> 
> Since New 52 (Prime Earth), Harley Quinn has 337 appearances, and Poison Ivy 158 appearances. Both are quite healthy numbers. I saved both lists as text and ran a diff; Harley Quinn had 264 unique appearances, and Poison Ivy 85. In 73 issues both appeared.
> 
> As a control, I added in Catwoman, with 232 appearances, as she is associated with both of them. Compared to Harley Quinn, Catwoman had 194 unique appearances, and Harley Quinn 299 unique appearances. They shared 38 appearances. Compared to Poison Ivy, Catwoman had 177 unique appearances, and Poison Ivy 103 unique appearances. They shared 55 appearances. In 30 issues, all three appeared, so 43 are Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn only, 25 are Poison Ivy and Catwoman only, and 8 are Harley Quinn and Catwoman only.
> 
> Note: this counts every appearance, even simple mentions, flashbacks, or being present in a single frame, up to being the protagonist or primary antagonist. More granular data would require manual checking of every issue.
> 
> From this, Poison Ivy is about as likely to appear alone as together with Harley Quinn, while Harley Quinn appears three times as often by herself compared to Poison Ivy, and Poison Ivy also often appears in association with Catwoman. Harley Quinn is in comparison more independent of both. But Poison Ivy is still associated more strongly with the Gotham City Sirens concept than either Catwoman or Harley Quinn, with only 60 appearances without either of them. The matching number for Harley Quinn is 254, and for Catwoman 169, if I'm keeping my numbers under control.
> ...


Impressive work!




> However, when Ivy is associated with Harley, more often than not Ivy is literally reduced to Harley's supporting character, whether in a love interest capacity or just as a BFF. That dynamic is what throws people off and is annoying. The closest parallel I have seen to this is again Emma Frost on the Marvel side. She is usually portrayed as a strong, standalone character in her own right, but when she was paired with Cyclops, some Emma fans felt she was being reduced to his supporting character. But those instances weren't anywhere to the same degree as how much Ivy is underplayed when she appears with Harley IMO.


This. Also DC shoving Harley down our throats on every occasion while further sideline Ivy and other characters. Something like this just annoys me:
sirens.jpg

----------


## kjn

> Impressive work!


More keeping the numbers straight and finding the right way to filter the raw lists using Unix (though I guess you could do this stuff with Excel as well).




> This. Also DC shoving Harley down our throats on every occasion while further sideline Ivy and other characters. Something like this just annoys me:


Harley Quinn is without a doubt the most marketable of the three characters, so plastering her name all over it makes sense in that regard. Kinda like "Batgirl and the Birds of Prey". Sure, in a perfect world DC wouldn't need to put the title like that, but if it sells another 5K copies that way, why not? It's more of a symptom of Harley Quinn's strength in the comic book market than a cause of it.

And, lets face it, however much we might decry how Harley Quinn dominates DC output or forces characters like Poison Ivy into specific roles, at least Harley Quinn came by her popularity honestly and wasn't forced down our throats. Not like Jason in Robinson's Wonder Woman run, which it seems like nobody wanted.

----------


## Confuzzled

> This. Also DC shoving Harley down our throats on every occasion while further sideline Ivy and other characters. Something like this just annoys me:
> sirens.jpg


Part of me is ready to give DC the benefit of the doubt assuming they did that to target the Margot Robbie movie fans who may not instantly recognise traditional Harley on the cover.

Also, it suddenly struck me. Did Guillem March model his Ivy on... _Melania Trump?_  :EEK!:

----------


## Agent Z

> Part of me is ready to give DC the benefit of the doubt assuming they did that to target the Margot Robbie movie fans who may not instantly recognise traditional Harley on the cover.
> 
> Also, it suddenly struck me. Did Guillem March model his Ivy on... _Melania Trump?_


I honestly don't see the resemblance.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I honestly don't see the resemblance.

----------


## Green Ghost

Heroes in Crisis #2 SPOILERS:
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Like many have expected and what was hinted, as of Heroes in Crisis #2, Poison Ivy is dead!
We have a panel where Booster says she was killed along Arsenal, Blu Jay & Wally and Harley throwing a rose into Gotham river and regretting bringing Ivy to Sanctuary among other things. 
They didn’t show a body or anything, but from what was said here we are supposed to believe Ivy was murdered.
Of course it could turn out to be fake-out later and Ivy somehow survived, but for now her status is dead.

----------


## lucius121

My only hope at the moment is that no body means she somehow survived.

----------


## Rac7d*

> My only hope at the moment is that no body means she somehow survived.


she part plant mabey she pulled an Arkham knight

----------


## Konja7

Tom King say he doesn't plan to revive the death in Heroes in Crisis. 

So, either Ivy is alive and hidden or we have to wait for another writer to resurrect her. 





> And uh, apparently he compared Harley & Ivy's relationship to that of Lois and Clark: https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/10...nn-lois-clark/
> 
> So... is Ivy supposed to be Kal-El here?


I guess Tom King wants to make the "Death of Superman"

----------


## gifted

Awe, man. This makes me so upset. Wally, Roy, and Pamela are three of my top favorite DC characters and they're all dead. What do they have against me and/or red heads?

----------


## Dylan Davison

This may be a strange opinion, but isn't killing Ivy to move Harleys character forward, just fridging Ivy? Like it or not, they are kinda partners, and as we have seen in the past, killing a characters girlfriend to move that character forward is the wrong thing to do. Just thinking out loud here haha.

----------


## kjn

> This may be a strange opinion, but isn't killing Ivy to move Harleys character forward, just fridging Ivy? Like it or not, they are kinda partners, and as we have seen in the past, killing a characters girlfriend to move that character forward is the wrong thing to do. Just thinking out loud here haha.


If the only purpose of a death in comics is to move the arc of the hero-protagonist forward, then yes, I'd call it a fridging. I'd also add that either the victim must be a woman or the hero-protagonist must be a man to truly fit the pattern.

That it all happens off-camera just makes the fridging connotations stronger.

----------


## Confuzzled

> If the only purpose of a death in comics is to move the arc of the hero-protagonist forward, then yes, I'd call it a fridging. I'd also add that either the victim must be a woman or the hero-protagonist must be a man to truly fit the pattern.
> 
> That it all happens off-camera just makes the fridging connotations stronger.


So... Ivy may be the start of a new sub-trope in comics: lesbian fridging  :Frown:

----------


## Confuzzled

I will say that the no body thing is a tad suspicious. Also, King had said at NYCC that Ivy will "feature heavily" in HiC. Whether that's through flashbacks, some weird manifestation of Harley's imagined subconcious, or an actual plot twist remains to be seen.

----------


## kjn

> So... Ivy may be the start of a new sub-trope in comics: lesbian fridging


I think it's already here, see Dead Lesbian Syndrome (TVTropes), or for a relatively recent example, the film _Atomic Blonde_.




> I will say that the no body thing is a tad suspicious. Also, King had said at NYCC that Ivy will "feature heavily" in HiC. Whether that's through flashbacks, some weird manifestation of Harley's imagined subconcious, or an actual plot twist remains to be seen.


Or they go the baby-Poison Ivy-route, though I'm not sure how that will fit her character at all. It worked with Groot because he was basically a child at heart; Poison Ivy… isn't.

----------


## Agent Z

> So... Ivy may be the start of a new sub-trope in comics: lesbian fridging


King basically gave us the comic equivalent of Tara's death in Buffy.

----------


## Rac7d*

> I think it's already here, see Dead Lesbian Syndrome (TVTropes), or for a relatively recent example, the film _Atomic Blonde_.
> 
> 
> 
> Or they go the baby-Poison Ivy-route, though I'm not sure how that will fit her character at all. It worked with Groot because he was basically a child at heart; Poison Ivy… isn't.


Yeah being a lesbian or being gay in general doesn't make you immune from death esp when your homicidal villain, but then again that what happen when your partner is a star 

how many times has lois kicked the bucket for supes

----------


## MentalManipulator

That's sad...I hope it's just a plot twist and she'll appear later and save the day or something. Getting killed like this, off panel, just for Harley's development is a disrespect for such a complex and rich character with a huge fan base.

----------


## Confuzzled

> King basically gave us the comic equivalent of Tara's death in Buffy.


Speaking of Buffy, guess who Sarah Michelle Gellar dressed up as for Halloween 2016?  :Stick Out Tongue: 



She seems to be quite the DC fan as she has also dressed as Raven and Harley in 2017 and 2018 respectively.

----------


## Agent Z

> Speaking of Buffy, guess who Sarah Michelle Gellar dressed up as for Halloween 2016? 
> 
> 
> 
> She seems to be quite the DC fan as she has also dressed as Raven and Harley in 2017 and 2018 respectively.


I'm surprised she hasn't done any voice work for any of DC's animated projects given a lot of Whedon show alumni have been involved with them.

----------


## kjn

Poison Ivy: Queer Adventures In Feminism And Ecology.




> She is a rebel. She is a queer woman in STEM, a single mother of three, feminist, environmentalist, activist who in the past ten years has saved Gotham and even the whole world more times than many heroes.

----------


## MajorHoy

Not sure if/when this was already shared here, but from 2013's "*Villains Month*":

----------


## Dylan Davison

I know I may be alone...But man, when drawn by the right person, I really do love that costume!

----------


## vitaminbee

While it’s not the exact same look, I love the black body suit look. Especially when it’s drawn by Olivier Coipel!

----------


## Green Ghost

> I know I may be alone...But man, when drawn by the right person, I really do love that costume!


You are not alone, it’s a pretty great design. Jesus Saiz made it work in Birds of Prey as did Javier Pina. I also liked the black eyes back then.  

Also love it in this image by Stjepan Sejic
CAF999A7-E8EB-4ABA-8D99-C67B4ED2D2DB.jpg




> While it’s not the exact same look, I love the black body suit look. Especially when it’s drawn by Olivier Coipel!


I really like this version too. It is further away from the original idea of an organic costume, but I love that it combines it with her classic look.

----------


## kjn

A live performance of "Welcome to Eden" by Leslie Hudson, including a short intro to Poison Ivy, including that her orphanage in Robinson Park was the best orphanage ever.




The studio version of the song (and the record "The Redhead League" it is part of) is available on Bandcamp. There you can also find the lyrics.

----------


## Green Ghost

Another issue of Heroes in Crisis and still only a hint at Ivy’s death, no body was shown or anything. Seems like King wants to pospond the big reveal. It has probably to do with the Harley variant cover and her worst moment.

But I still wonder about this mysterious figure in Doomsday Clock, that’s why I think about some possible outcomes for her:
- Ivy is dead and this could be a replacement. I was thinking Hazel, one of her daughters, because of the skin tone and the short hair.  
- Ivy somehow survived and will be turned into a villain again hanging out with the other Gotham rogues like in the 70s- early 90s. This could be the reason they only mention Tatooed Man being killed at Sanctuary and not Ivy who is well more known in Gotham.
- Another scenario would be her surviving, but cut all ties to Harley and humanity and just connects more with the Green somewhere. This is mostly because of the hints in Damage.

----------


## Confuzzled

Solstice was easily one of my favorite post-NTT Titans. This just sucks.

----------


## Confuzzled

Margot Robbie wants Poison Ivy in the DCEU, calls the Harley and Ivy relationship "one of her favourite aspects from the comics" and has been thinking about casting choices for Ivy!  :Big Grin: 




> OnPaste.20181130-221249.jpg


Source

----------


## Frontier

I'd be interested to see if the treatment of the other members of the Birds of Prey in the upcoming movie will be indicative of how Ivy might be handled when paired with Robbie's Harley.

----------


## Confuzzled

> I'd be interested to see if the treatment of the other members of the Birds of Prey in the upcoming movie will be indicative of how Ivy might be handled when paired with Robbie's Harley.


I think they are using Harley as a launching pad for the Birds of Prey to become their own separate franchise (maybe with Batgirl/Oracle), while Harley continues to be her own thing. So maybe the third film featuring HQ will have Ivy. From Robbie's comments, it sounds like she wants Ivy to have a more prominent role than the 4 announced BoP who have to share screen space not just with Harley but with each other.

----------


## Confuzzled

Jimmy Palmiotti on his casting preference for Ivy in the DCEU:




> An unknown would be best, and an amazing one at best. I love the idea of a non-star.


http://disq.us/p/1xt4anm

----------


## MentalManipulator

I agree a lesser known actress would be fine. But Eva Green is still my top choice. Or Rachel Evan Wood for a younger version.

----------


## nj06

> Solstice was easily one of my favorite post-NTT Titans. This just sucks.


That's the best Solstice has looked since the reboot back in 2011. I really hope none of them are dead and if so, then I hope all of their deaths get reversed.

----------


## tako

*spoilers:*
isn't this just great
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Confuzzled

> *spoilers:*
> isn't this just great
> *end of spoilers*


Yeee, people are not gonna be happy with this cover. *spoilers:*
Showing her death on the cover is one thing, but having her land on her bust with her ass sticking out? Ugh.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Frontier

*spoilers:*
I don't think they're even using the right costume  :Stick Out Tongue: .
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Green Ghost

> *spoilers:*
> isn't this just great
> *end of spoilers*


Well, don’t know what to say...at least we know now.




> Yeee, people are not gonna be happy with this cover. *spoilers:*
> Showing her death on the cover is one thing, but having her land on her bust with her ass sticking out? Ugh.
> *end of spoilers*


Ugh indeed...
*spoilers:*
this is kinda bad taste. “So yeah, we killed Poison Ivy for nothing, but look how sexy she looks dead.”
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Korath

Can I get more of her in Damage ? She was actually great in there. And alive. It was better than that.

----------


## kjn

*spoilers:*
I think killing off Poison Ivy is a bad idea, and I think killing off all the other characters like this is also a bad idea. But this alleged cover is a *REALLY* bad idea.

Looking at the other Heroes in Crisis main covers (I didn't find #5) and comparing them with this makes clear it sticks out like a sore thumb, provided this is the intended main cover.

#1: A group picture of superheroes in mourning
#2: Batman being angry while held by Harley Quinn
#3: Someone (Booster Gold? Batman?) holding a bloody Sanctuary mask
#4: Harley Quinn with a smoking gun over the corpse of Wally West
#5: Couldn't find
#6: Roy Harper being badass while overmatched
#7: Poison Ivy being a very sexy corpse, with a look up her cleavage and her butt sticking out, staring at us

So out of six covers, only two shows a dead body, and only one—Ivy—has the dead body being the focus of the cover. Ivy is also draped into a boobs-and-butt pose. The only possible saving grace is that Ivy glares accusingly at the watcher and us readers, but otherwise this is probably the most tone deaf DC cover that I know of since the infamous cover with the Joker holding Babs hostage back in 2015.

*end of spoilers*

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## lucius121

This whole thing is cheap sensationalism I’m genuinely disappointed in DC and especially Tom King I thought he was better than this.

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## kjn

The Poison Ivy cover has been pulled, per Tom King:




> An unfinished cover for Heroes in Crisis 7 was leaked prior to going through the standard DC approval process. 
> 
> I did not like the cover. I discussed the situation with DC editorial who agreed with my objections. This cover will not be used. Thank you.

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## Confuzzled

Yeah, I was taken aback by the cover as it seemed especially tacky after King constantly assuring everyone he would be more sensitive towards not just the depiction of Ivy, but also themes of trauma and violence. So it's not surprising to learn that he hadn't okayed the cover.

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## kjn

From what I posted over in the Heroes in Crisis thread:

IGN picked up DC's retreat on the cover.




> IGN spoke to a DC employee with knowledge of the situation, who said the art in question was an unfinished cover that was never given final editorial approval and was not intended to be made public. How the art leaked is currently being investigated by DC. A new version of that same art drawn by Mann was recolored to change the tone of the image to be more reflective of the contents of the comic and will be used to solicit Heroes in Crisis #7 to retailers in next week’s retailer catalog, although it’s marked as “Not Final Art,” meaning the final cover for that issue may wind up being completely different.


Since the same cover is apparently being used in the catalogue, only more tastefully shaded, my _guess_ is that this was indeed on the way to be the final cover for #7, but that someone who understood which PR disaster DC was heading towards here choose to leak it early.

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## MentalManipulator

dark times to be an Ivy fan. I hope DC makes her justice soon.

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## Celgress

> dark times to be an Ivy fan. I hope DC makes her justice soon.


*sigh* Ain't that the truth...  :Mad:   :Frown:

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## tako

> Since the same cover is apparently being used in the catalogue, only more tastefully shaded, my _guess_ is that this was indeed on the way to be the final cover for #7, but that someone who understood which PR disaster DC was heading towards here choose to leak it early.


it was. like 76% was

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## rosenrose

> it was. like 76% was


Hi Tako. I reverse searched the entire internet to find you and it showed this forum. First of all thank you for the "leek salad". Seems like DC doesn't like veggies.
I'll agree that this indeed was the official cover. TK just tried to do some damage control but this was the cover. It was nearly done and even was coloured. Everyone with a basic knowledge of how comic covers work knows that it's a process that involves preliminary sketches, etc. This cover was almost done. 

Also TK in every-single-interview and podcast her apperas constantly mentions how he is stressed about having control over everything in his books. Also look the reasons Mark Doyle was replaced by Jamie Rich. Or better read TK admitting it was his disagreement. So the "oops, how did this happened" is cringy. But working in PR and communication I understand his position. This could have been handled better though.

I feel that a lot of DC people ans especially TK and the Bat group must be very, VERY mad at you and of course Ivy fans and everyone who criticized it. So I expect at least some sort of retaliation. Who knows, perhaps Ivy will not only get murdered but raped too. Or perhaps she will turn out to be the murderer. Or worse. 

The point is, there are people who want to do stuff with Ivy. But are not allowed too. How many times has Amy Chu tweeted she wants to continue her book? She said her next plot would involve cryopreservation of seeds. And from what I remember it would be Ivy out of Gotham.

Is this really the best they could think about Ivy in that book? A murder victim?

So, TAKO! What do you think will happen with Ivy? In HiC and after that.

In case TK or the rest of the gang reads this let me say this (you are CIA, you will know what to do):

pmusg whqdf jvhtr zvwyu wpndd skipg jegfw pneqz tdxje boafc idovx dhngm fxhms

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## kjn

Thoughtful attempt to reason around the Poison Ivy cover, her general history, and her role: The Writing on the Wall: Poison Ivy and HEROES IN CRISIS:




> If we can accept the idea that Poison Ivy, as just one example out of the myriad of DC villains, is capable of being handled in a multi-faceted manner, I have to just ask: who thought she was more compelling as a dead figure than as anything else?
> 
> Who thought, having decided that ‘dead!’ was the most compelling means of advancing her story, that her death needed to be a cover?
> 
> Who thought, having decided that she needed to be dead and that her death needed to be zoomed in on across shelves and digital store fronts, that she also needed to be posed?


(Note I also posted this over in the Heroes in Crisis thread.)

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## king81992

> dark times to be an Ivy fan. I hope DC makes her justice soon.


Its a dark time for DC comic fans in general.

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## Green Ghost

> Thoughtful attempt to reason around the Poison Ivy cover, her general history, and her role: The Writing on the Wall: Poison Ivy and HEROES IN CRISIS:
> 
> 
> 
> (Note I also posted this over in the Heroes in Crisis thread.)


Spot on article, thanks for sharing!

When King announced that this story is about Harley I knew something bad would happen to Ivy. DC wants Harley as a full hero and Ivy was in the way and since they couldn’t agree where to go with her anyway, they killed two birds with one stone by getting rid of Ivy. 
They could have get the two apart without killing Ivy of course, but they they love the shock value and knew it will get them headlines and Harley her tragic hero moment.
And this is what makes me really angry, Ivy’s just a plot device for a Harley’s journey. Her death isn’t about her, but all about Harley. She is treated like a minor character with no value on her own, even though she exist for over 50 years.

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## Rac7d*

> Spot on article, thanks for sharing!
> 
> When King announced that this story is about Harley I knew something bad would happen to Ivy. DC wants Harley as a full hero and Ivy was in the way and since they couldn’t agree where to go with her anyway, they killed two birds with one stone by getting rid of Ivy. 
> They could have get the two apart without killing Ivy of course, but they they love the shock value and knew it will get them headlines and Harley her tragic hero moment.
> And this is what makes me really angry, Ivy’s just a plot device for a Harley’s journey. Her death isn’t about her, but all about Harley. She is treated like a minor character with no value on her own, even though she exist for over 50 years.


Yes and No

Ivy is i the way her history as villain is alot more destructive then burgular catwoman and abusive sidekick harley(except when she was a terrorist and blew up children). But Ivy is Batman Big female villain player never a mob boss but her history has always been of a dangerous vixen and her powers also make her difficult.

She can be allowed to be forgiven for her past crimes ...... its too much   Their also her evolving physiology, as she becomes more plant and disassociates herself with humanity. She teeters between loving and tolerating harley but that is not enough to make her a hero.

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## Rac7d*

> Spot on article, thanks for sharing!
> 
> When King announced that this story is about Harley I knew something bad would happen to Ivy. DC wants Harley as a full hero and Ivy was in the way and since they couldn’t agree where to go with her anyway, they killed two birds with one stone by getting rid of Ivy. 
> They could have get the two apart without killing Ivy of course, but they they love the shock value and knew it will get them headlines and Harley her tragic hero moment.
> And this is what makes me really angry, Ivy’s just a plot device for a Harley’s journey. Her death isn’t about her, but all about Harley. She is treated like a minor character with no value on her own, even though she exist for over 50 years.


she is lois lane, mary jane watson, gwen stacey

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## Green Ghost

> Yes and No
> 
> Ivy is i the way her history as villain is alot more destructive then burgular catwoman and abusive sidekick harley(except when she was a terrorist and blew up children). But Ivy is Batman Big female villain player never a mob boss but her history has always been of a dangerous vixen and her powers also make her difficult.
> 
> She can be allowed to be forgiven for her past crimes ...... its too much   Their also her evolving physiology, as she becomes more plant and disassociates herself with humanity. She teeters between loving and tolerating harley but that is not enough to make her a hero.


My post wasn't about Ivy's status as villain or hero, but the mistreatment as a plot device canon-fodder to advance another character. 

If you are talking abou the article, Ivy was pretty much treated as an anti-hero/anti-villain since the New52 and continuing to rebirth and did way less killing than Harley. King even erased her killing record in Batman.

And personally, I think someone who's main goal is to save the planet deserves redemption more than someone who was in love with a serial killer and still kills with a smile on her face.




> she is lois lane, mary jane watson, gwen stacey


The difference with Ivy is that she was created as her own character 26 years before Harley. All 3 you mentioned where created as supporting characters for the main hero from the beginning. 
Now Gwen Stacy was allowed to evolve on her own thanks to Spider-Gwen, while Ivy gets downgraded as Harley's (girl-)friend.

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## lucius121

> My post wasn't about Ivy's status as villain or hero, but the mistreatment as a plot device canon-fodder to advance another character. 
> 
> If you are talking abou the article, Ivy was pretty much treated as an anti-hero/anti-villain since the New52 and continuing to rebirth and did way less killing than Harley. King even erased her killing record in Batman.
> 
> And personally, I think someone who's main goal is to save the planet deserves redemption more than someone who was in love with a serial killer and still kills with a smile on her face.
> 
> 
> 
> The difference with Ivy is that she was created as her own character 26 years before Harley. All 3 you mentioned where created as supporting characters for the main hero from the beginning. 
> Now Gwen Stacy was allowed to evolve on her own thanks to Spider-Gwen, while Ivy gets downgraded as Harley's (girl-)friend.


It's the publisher who decided to kill of ivy I'm not sure why the response to this is to hate on Harley. Harley is a very popular character and her relationship with Ivy is part of what made Harley who she is, killing of Ivy is not a tool to develop Harley it's a tool to regress her, you can see this by how she has gone back to her old costume. I think this an injustice primarily to Ivy but also to Harley as well.

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## Green Ghost

> It's the publisher who decided to kill of ivy I'm not sure why the response to this is to hate on Harley. Harley is a very popular character and her relationship with Ivy is part of what made Harley who she is, killing of Ivy is not a tool to develop Harley it's a tool to regress her, you can see this by how she has gone back to her old costume. I think this an injustice primarily to Ivy but also to Harley as well.


Why do you think they killed Ivy then? She has no connection to the heroes and the only one who will be effected by her death is Harley. King said that Didio gave him Harley and Booster to put through hell so they can develope. Also Harley will get her tragic hero moment as cover and I bet it will be the death of Ivy. As soon as they decided Harley needed a tragedy, Ivy was doomed. 
She is just a plot device to this story about Harley and this is what makes me angry. Ivy will probably be gone for a while after HiC, while Harley will get even more comics and appearances then she has now. I don’t hate Harley as a character, I am just tired of DC pushing her as the “fourth pillar”, while other characters get burned. 

Ps: I think the costume change was just fan-service. In her eulogy to Ivy she said that she should never let anybody change or hurt her, not even the Joker. So changing her costume back to something she wore when she was hurt the most doesn’t make sense if you ask me.

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## Confuzzled

> It's the publisher who decided to kill of ivy I'm not sure why the response to this is to hate on Harley. Harley is a very popular character and her relationship with Ivy is part of what made Harley who she is, killing of Ivy is not a tool to develop Harley it's a tool to regress her, you can see this by how she has gone back to her old costume. I think this an injustice primarily to Ivy but also to Harley as well.


I don't think Harley going back to her classic costume is really "regression" (and with the _Birds of Prey_ movie having a female director and writer, maybe Margot Robbie will wear it in the DCEU as it's more modest than her Suicide Squad outfit).

Also, I think she will become more heroic than villainous after this event. Dan Didio claimed her to be DC's "Fourth Pillar" after the Trinity, was heavily rumored to have told King to make her one of the protagonists in HiC, so I think she's good. OTOH, I suspect Didio doesn't care much for Ivy as he told fans on Twitter that she "dilutes" sales (which I assume are Harley's sales) when used in an independent capacity and probably told TK to kill off Ivy in HiC (despite King's protestations and "taking one for the team").

Just speculations re Didio but I honestly believe he was the biggest reason Ivy was repeatedly reduced to be Harley's sidekick over the last few years despite many writers using Ivy independently in strong, captivating stories.

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## Green Ghost

> I don't think Harley going back to her classic costume is really "regression" (and with the _Birds of Prey_ movie having a female director and writer, maybe Margot Robbie will wear it in the DCEU as it's more modest than her Suicide Squad outfit).
> 
> Also, I think she will become more heroic than villainous after this event. Dan Didio claimed her to be DC's "Fourth Pillar" after the Trinity, was heavily rumored to have told King to make her one of the protagonists in HiC, so I think she's good. OTOH, I suspect Didio doesn't care much for Ivy as he told fans on Twitter that she "dilutes" sales (which I assume are Harley's sales) when used in an independent capacity and probably told TK to kill off Ivy in HiC (despite King's protestations and "taking one for the team").
> 
> Just speculations re Didio but I honestly believe he was the biggest reason Ivy was repeatedly reduced to be Harley's sidekick over the last few years despite many writers using Ivy independently in strong, captivating stories.


The way Ivy was treated despise her popularity, there has to be someone high at DC who doesn’t like her and most signs point to Didio (even though King shouldn’t be let off the hook, because he agreed to do it and got to some lenght to get Ivy into Sanctaury).
I didn’t know about the “dilutes” comment, but it’s another sign that he doesn’t like Ivy. And where does he got it from?
- Her mini had a soldout #1 and only minimal drops unusual for a mini. Later issues still outsold titles like Deathstroke, Green Arrow, Green Lantern Corps, Swamp Thing, Raven, Titans and more titles who got followups and Rebirth titles.
- Why put her on so many covers if she hurts sales? She was on multiple variant covers of Batman #50 while not even being in it.
- Her merchandise sells and she often is one of the first to get statues in a new line.
- The Sirens concept is still popular
- Harley and Ivy is also a very popular concept
- She is one of the most popular costumes at cons and on Halloween
- Many artist said that she is one of the most requested comissions at cons
But most of you here know this already.

I am just wondering, why DC wouldn’t bank on this? She seems to be good enough for merchandise and covers, but not her own stories?! 
It seems like they just want a sexy pinup model and not a multi layered character and that HiC cover sadly kinda proves that point.

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## kjn

> I don't think Harley going back to her classic costume is really "regression" (and with the _Birds of Prey_ movie having a female director and writer, maybe Margot Robbie will wear it in the DCEU as it's more modest than her Suicide Squad outfit).


I'm not sure about that, especially since Margot Robbie seems to have been intended _Birds of Prey_ as an R-rated film from the beginning. But we'll have to see.




> Also, I think she will become more heroic than villainous after this event. Dan Didio claimed her to be DC's "Fourth Pillar" after the Trinity, was heavily rumored to have told King to make her one of the protagonists in HiC, so I think she's good. OTOH, I suspect Didio doesn't care much for Ivy as he told fans on Twitter that she "dilutes" sales (which I assume are Harley's sales) when used in an independent capacity and probably told TK to kill off Ivy in HiC (despite King's protestations and "taking one for the team").
> 
> Just speculations re Didio but I honestly believe he was the biggest reason Ivy was repeatedly reduced to be Harley's sidekick over the last few years despite many writers using Ivy independently in strong, captivating stories.


For all that Didio-bashing is practically a sacrament here, I'm not sure he's all to blame here. Or at least not to a greater extent than he is to blame or praise for just about everything from DC. And do you have a reference for Didio's claim about diluting sales? I couldn't find something like that on Twitter.

I do think there are several reasons for why DC has a hard time working with Ivy, apart from any subjective biases. One is that Poison Ivy is tricky to write as a protagonist, arguably as tricky as Wonder Woman, because their backgrounds and their values and their view of the world is so different from the rest of us (and Wonder Woman suffers from perpetual reimaginings on how she acts). I also wrote the following over in another thread:




> I think that, while true, isn't all of the story. Like most organisations, DC has institutional biases and ideas on how the world around them operate. Their creators also have the same. Among those things are preconceptions and wishes on who their fans and readers are, and how they look and behave. This means they are more likely to listen to certain groups of fans and less likely to listen and understand other groups of fans, or listen on certain channels. They are more likely to listen to white straight dudes, because most of them are white straight dudes.
> 
> But the Poison Ivy fandom is simply too dissimilar to the movers and shakers at DC to understand, so they simply don't hear it until the fandom gets so loud that they have to listen anyway. And then the fans might be told that they are too "strident". It's a vicious cycle, and the only ones who can break it is DC themselves.

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## lucius121

> I don't think Harley going back to her classic costume is really "regression" (and with the _Birds of Prey_ movie having a female director and writer, maybe Margot Robbie will wear it in the DCEU as it's more modest than her Suicide Squad outfit).
> 
> Also, I think she will become more heroic than villainous after this event. Dan Didio claimed her to be DC's "Fourth Pillar" after the Trinity, was heavily rumored to have told King to make her one of the protagonists in HiC, so I think she's good. OTOH, I suspect Didio doesn't care much for Ivy as he told fans on Twitter that she "dilutes" sales (which I assume are Harley's sales) when used in an independent capacity and probably told TK to kill off Ivy in HiC (despite King's protestations and "taking one for the team").
> 
> Just speculations re Didio but I honestly believe he was the biggest reason Ivy was repeatedly reduced to be Harley's sidekick over the last few years despite many writers using Ivy independently in strong, captivating stories.


Just a point about the fourth pillar stuff, that was Jim Lee not Didio https://www.cbr.com/jim-lee-dubs-har...c-comics-line/ . Also Harley going back to an old costume is clear regression since she is going backwards quite literally.

I’m not sure how much Didio had to do with reducing Ivy either I mean the first thing he did when got back full control from Johns was break them up by killing poor Ivy off.

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## skyvolt2000

> The way Ivy was treated despise her popularity, there has to be someone high at DC who doesn’t like her and most signs point to Didio (even though King shouldn’t be let off the hook, because he agreed to do it and got to some lenght to get Ivy into Sanctaury).
> I didn’t know about the “dilutes” comment, but it’s another sign that he doesn’t like Ivy. And where does he got it from?
> - Her mini had a soldout #1 and only minimal drops unusual for a mini. Later issues still outsold titles like Deathstroke, Green Arrow, Green Lantern Corps, Swamp Thing, Raven, Titans and more titles who got followups and Rebirth titles.
> - Why put her on so many covers if she hurts sales? She was on multiple variant covers of Batman #50 while not even being in it.
> - Her merchandise sells and she often is one of the first to get statues in a new line.
> - The Sirens concept is still popular
> - Harley and Ivy is also a very popular concept
> - She is one of the most popular costumes at cons and on Halloween
> - Many artist said that she is one of the most requested comissions at cons
> ...


If I had a dollar for every time I heard this-I would be a billionaire.

Sad thing is YOU are CORRECT. Everything you said is correct-the character pulls her WEIGHT way more than some others I could name at DC and Marvel (including one with a movie).

I mentioned this in the HIC thread and thought to mention it here.

Aren't we all forgetting about something in the Batman universe when it comes to DEATH?

What does Damian's grandfather OWN??? Jason Todd & Riddler took baths in it once.

LAZARUS PIT.

Tom King is doing Batman. What is stopping a follow up arc of Harley taking Ivy's body to that pit? In other words we could see that story King wanted about PTS be told in Batman.

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## Confuzzled

> I'm not sure about that, especially since Margot Robbie seems to have been intended _Birds of Prey_ as an R-rated film from the beginning. But we'll have to see.


But she did say Harley would wear different costumes.





> For all that Didio-bashing is practically a sacrament here, I'm not sure he's all to blame here. Or at least not to a greater extent than he is to blame or praise for just about everything from DC. And do you have a reference for Didio's claim about diluting sales? I couldn't find something like that on Twitter.


It's not sacrament. As Green Ghost said, most signs point to him being the DC higher-up reluctant to separate Ivy from Harley. The "dilutes sales" comment was originally from this Twitter moment story which isn't accessible to me right now: https://twitter.com/ivygirl851/statu...99421603815424

I think he told the fan in question that she should just read Harley's book if she wanted more Ivy.

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## kjn

Another warm-up image from Stjepan Sejic:

poison_ivy.jpg

(Larger size at the link.)

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## Korath

Because it's too beautiful to not be shared :

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## Celgress

> Because it's too beautiful to not be shared :


Indeed it is.  :Cool:  Thanks for sharing.

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