# Comics  > Image Comics >  Savage Dragon.

## Stefan

Hey,

I'm a bit bummed to see so little love for one of Image Comic's longest running series: Savage Dragon. 

With Invincible ending, it's one of the last classic superhero books from Image. Kirkman has often cited this as (one of) his favorite books and one of the biggest influences on his work. I'm always surprised to hear people don't even know it's still coming out. How do you not know about a book that's into triple-diggits?

Let me tell you: It is indeed still coming out. Monthly. And it just celebrated it's 25th anniversary. The book is still going strong. It's currently heading into a whole new direction and it's a great jumping on point for new readers (although Erik _always_ makes sure to get new readers up to speed). 

So, who's reading the book? Let's hear from you fellow finheads!

And for all those who are interested in checking it out: *www.savagedragon.com* just got a relaunch and provides interesting previews, reviews and insights into the book.

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## DanMad1977

Good to hear that the site is online again. I will check it out.

Savage Dragon is one of the last, if not the last UNPREDICTABLE superhero book out there. I mean, you know that no corporate Superhero is in danger, no one stays dead forever and you will see your hero always back to the way it was, after they changed him or her into something else. Not so with Savage Dragon. Anything can happen here! 

And its written in real time, that means characters age!!

Its still a blast after all these years.

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## Paulie Blade

> Savage Dragon is one of the last, if not the last UNPREDICTABLE superhero book out there. I mean, you know that no corporate Superhero is in danger, no one stays dead forever and you will see your hero always back to the way it was, after they changed him or her into something else. Not so with Savage Dragon. Anything can happen here! 
> 
> And its written in real time, that means characters age!!


Those are little things, but boy, this is the good stuff about comics. Even though I did read Image "superhero" comics in the '90s (WildC.A.T.S, Spawn etc.), I never gave Savage Dragon a proper try. I think you've just convinced me.

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## DanMad1977

Do it, its fun. 

Mind, SD started with a 5 issue mini series, before it returned to a new number 1 and didnt renumber to this day.

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## Stefan

> I think you've just convinced me.


Awesome. Like I said, it's currently a good time to jump onboard. If you want to read the whole thing from the beginning the easiest and cheapest way are the black&white archive collections. There are a lot of color trades as well but unfortunately there are a couple of issues that have never been collected.

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## dishpan

I read it every issue. Erik is so nice too, really engages with his fans. Follow him on Facebook to see some interesting behind the scenes info about decisions he makes.

Regarding Invincible ending (sadly) I was reading an article recently that said Astro City is the longest running creator owned series still being published and I was like umm no

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## DanMad1977

Any news about Ant?

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## GOLGO 13

Savage Dragon wouldn't work for me without Erik's direct involvement in it.   I love his artwork, stories & sense of humor throughout the entire series.

Well, if he could somehow con Frank Cho into doing separate SD book I would be all over that.  What say you to that Erik?

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## DanMad1977

He would never let anyone write or draw his main book. Maybe Ant some time in the future? or a spinoff, but not Savage Dragon. He made that clear.

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## Dark-Flux

I'd maybe like to see a spinoff anthology one-shot or something, with various creators having a crack at some of Eriks characters. Not so much the main ongoing.

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## DanMad1977

Personally, i just want to see Erik draw Dragon, no one else. But sure, it could be fun for a one shot.

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## Joker

Doesn't matter, there's a limited pool of professional artists that'd line up to draw things that appeared in the last issue.

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## DanMad1977

I just read 228.

Damn god, Erik is not holding back with the porn stuff. I am a grown up, i can handle that and the sex scenes are very innovativ, i have to say. As long as it doesnt get in the way of the storytelling, i am fine by it. Its the only book on the market that can deliver action, story, superheroes, porn and over the top violence all in one. 

The only thing that disturbs me is the healing factor. I know that Malcom or Dragon can heal fast and all, but where is the danger? Its like seeing Wolverine fight, you just know that any wound will be healed in a few seconds or days, so there is no harm to the character. 

On the plus side, Erik can draw all these crazy fights without limitations, because of the healing factor. Hmm...

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## Erik Larsen

> The only thing that disturbs me is the healing factor. I know that Malcom or Dragon can heal fast and all, but where is the danger? Its like seeing Wolverine fight, you just know that any wound will be healed in a few seconds or days, so there is no harm to the character.


Do keep in mind--Malcolm's dad, the original "Savage Dragon"--is dead. So that healing factor only goes so far.

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## DanMad1977

Sure, but it goes veryyyy faaarrrr.... :Stick Out Tongue: 

But its okay, so you can let loose on all these fights, and thats a plus.

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## Cezar The Scribe

> Erik is not holding back with the porn stuff.



That turned me away. I want the comic back to the way it was.

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## DavidRA

Me too. I've dropped the title over that and the politics.

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## Stefan

The sex and the politics are things that come up every now and then. They are in my opinion not the main content of the book. The new, more pornographic display of sex is pretty uncommon for US superhero comics but so far it's been mainly comedy relief. It's something Erik wants to try and I applaud him for always trying new stuff. The book has been through so many changes - that's what it's all about and that's what make's it so great. So if you are saying you want it back to the way it was I wonder what exactly you are talking about. The Kurr era? When Malcom was a teenager? The comic strip era? The "Savage World" era? Dragon as a cop?

I really love the book and even if Erik did something I might not agree with I'd still enjoy it enough to read on and wait for a brighter day.

If you want to find out more about the book check out the revamped official website: http://www.savagedragon.com

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## fin5

Whats a good jumping on spot.I want to try it out

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## skyvolt2000

> Whats a good jumping on spot.I want to try it out


Either issue 192 when Malcolm takes over or 150.




> The new, more pornographic display of sex is pretty uncommon for US superhero comics but so far it's been mainly comedy relief.


I think folks want it toned down and it was a bit too graphic the last two issues for me. It just makes it harder to sell to new readers with all that, otherwise the book is fine.

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## fin5

i ment resent its on 230.I heard 227 is a good jumping on

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## Cezar The Scribe

> I think folks want it toned down and it was a bit too graphic the last two issues for me. It just makes it harder to sell to new readers with all that, otherwise the book is fine.


I want it taken out completely. The issues it was in edited and rereleased.

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## Paulie Blade

> I want it taken out completely. The issues it was in edited and rereleased.


Just out of curiosity... why?

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## JFP

> Just out of curiosity... why?


I'm curious about this too. It was never a children's book. It has always been extremely violent. I don't feel the sex is any worse than the violence.

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## Cezar The Scribe

I'm fine with the violence, because in a superhero comics that will always be there.

Adult themes don't need to be there.

Marketed correctly and toned down a comic can reach more people and sell better.

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## Greg

Sex is a normal, naturally occurring thing. Why is sex so bad to showcase but extreme violence and death are totally fine? That's so weird to me.

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## Joker

Sex _is_ normal. 

You know what isn't? Shooting a load so large it sends your wife flying across the room, ending up upside down with cum _pouring_ out of her vagina into her mouth. Let alone drawing that in your fucking comic. Neither of those things are normal, nor are they a healthy depiction of a normal, natural act practiced by adults. 

I have no problem with nudity or sex in comics, but this was the kind of vulgar nonsense a 13 year old would draw and think, 'man, that's funny!'. Guess what? It wasn't. It was juvenile, though. 

So yeah, I can see why people would have objections to that in a comic that's never been like that for the last 200+ issues.

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## JFP

> Sex is a normal, naturally occurring thing. Why is sex so bad to showcase but extreme violence and death are totally fine? That's so weird to me.


First off, it's Erik Larsen's comic. His comic, his rules. 

Secondly, Larsen has made it abundantly clear that his comic isn't high art. His comic is exploitative escapist fiction based on his childhood fantasies. So complaining that his comic is escapist entertainment from the mind of a 13 year old is as stupid as complaining that the Walking Dead has zombies in it. 

Lastly, Stefan spelled it out perfectly when he said, "It's something Erik wants to try and I applaud him for always trying new stuff. The book has been through so many changes - that's what it's all about and that's what make's it so great. I really love the book and even if Erik did something I might not agree with I'd still enjoy it enough to read on and wait for a brighter day." Even though the porn wasn't there before, Stefan makes it clear that Erik is about trying new stuff that'll get a reaction out of his audience. And like Stefan, even though I don't agree with him, I applaud him for having the balls to put it in there while other creators wouldn't have the balls to take chances with their comic.

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## Coal Tiger

> Sex _is_ normal. 
> 
> You know what isn't? Shooting a load so large it sends your wife flying across the room, ending up upside down with cum _pouring_ out of her vagina into her mouth. Let alone drawing that in your fucking comic. Neither of those things are normal, nor are they a healthy depiction of a normal, natural act practiced by adults. 
> 
> I have no problem with nudity or sex in comics, but this was the kind of vulgar nonsense a 13 year old would draw and think, 'man, that's funny!'. Guess what? It wasn't. It was juvenile, though. 
> 
> So yeah, I can see why people would have objections to that in a comic that's never been like that for the last 200+ issues.


If this kind of stuff was in the Savage Dragon comic when I was reading it in the mid 90's as a teenager, I would have been elated and it would have been my favorite comic.  20 or so years later, the novelty is gone. Yeah, once upon a time before my access to the internet, if I wanted to see boobs and gore I read Savage Dragon and Lady Death or something, but I have long since discovered porn and actual sex, so I don't need comics for that kind of illicit material. I can appreciate that for the last 25 years, Larsen did a comic that was exactly what he wanted with little to no compromises, but in that time, the things that I wanted have changed.  I can also appreciate that suddenly the comic is showing nudity and ejaculation when it hasn't for 25 years, it might be off-putting for people who have stuck with it this long.  

Also, I think Malcom is a fucking boring character, but that's a whole other conversation.

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## JFP

> If this kind of stuff was in the Savage Dragon comic when I was reading it in the mid 90's as a teenager, I would have been elated and it would have been my favorite comic.  20 or so years later, the novelty is gone. Yeah, once upon a time before my access to the internet, if I wanted to see boobs and gore I read Savage Dragon and Lady Death or something, but I have long since discovered porn and actual sex, so I don't need comics for that kind of illicit material. I can appreciate that for the last 25 years, Larsen did a comic that was exactly what he wanted with little to no compromises, but in that time, the things that I wanted have changed.  I can also appreciate that suddenly the comic is showing nudity and ejaculation when it hasn't for 25 years, it might be off-putting for people who have stuck with it this long.  
> 
> Also, I think Malcom is a fucking boring character, but that's a whole other conversation.


Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with Cezar or anyone else having a problem with the sex elements in the story. Or any other elements that make them uncomfortable (like politics). 

It's just utterly idiotic to complain that Savage Dragon features juvenile story elements only a teen would find cool. Erik has made it abundantly clear that Savage Dragon, both the character and the story, are his childhood fantasies come to life. While he mixes elements to satisfy his adult self, much of it is the mixing of elements to satisfy the juvenile kid within him, since the character is something based on his juvenile fantasies. If you've been reading it for 200+ issues, you would know this.

How can you have been following along for 200+ issues of SD and just now wake up and say, "Hey, this story features elements that are extremely juvenile. Where did that come from?"? That's as stupid as reading the Walking Dead for 170+ issues and saying, "Hey, this story features characters trying to survive a zombie apocalypse. Where did that come from?"

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## Joker

Erik's freedom to do whatever he wants with his book has nothing to do with people's reactions to it.

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## Erik Larsen

> Erik's freedom to do whatever he wants with his book has nothing to do with people's reactions to it.


People read the book because I do whatever I want. They like that literally anything can be on the next page at any time. And, yes, that means sometimes there will be something you don't want to see. It's the nature of the beast. 

I'm not taking dictation here. I'm not a DJ taking requests. It is what it is. And you can read it or not read it and no matter what you choose--I'm totally fine with that. 

I understand that not everybody is going to read my book. And guess what? Everybody isn't going to read _any_ book. That's how freedom of choice works.

But it's not a porno book now any more than it was a team book now or a comic strip book or an all-splash pages book or a zombie book or a science fiction book or a romance book or any of the dozens of other things I touched on during its run. 

Savage Dragon is my love letter to comics and I like a lot of different kinds of comics, from Miller Daredevil to Lee and Kirby Fantastic Four to Calvin & Hobbes to R Crumb's underground comics and a hundred other things. It's all there, tossed in a giant blender, set to purée.

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## Joker

Right, and I think that's great. 

The argument being made was that reactions to content are fucking stupid because blah blah blah (That specific poster isn't worth arguing with) but that isn't true. You do whatever you want, which is great, but people are going to have reactions to extreme content. You're aware of that, but someone else wasn't.

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## JFP

This thread was mild-mannered until some nameless poster felt the need to start cursing and insulting the creator of SD. In post number 27, he was the one who felt the need to start cursing with comments like "let alone in your fucking comic". Everyone else who disagreed with his work was even tempered.

But now that poster is trying to pretend like comments such as, "only a 13 year old would find funny" and "it's juvenile though" were not meant to be insulting toward Larsen. Good job, guy. 

Can someone remind me again why this poster was banned? And why he was allowed to return?

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## DanMad1977

I just read the newest issue. Slowly, i warm up to the new location. I vote for a new supporting cast and a few good villains (who should live a bit longer before getting killed). The one in 229 was a good example of done right.

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## JFP

> I just read the newest issue. Slowly, i warm up to the new location. I vote for a new supporting cast and a few good villains (who should live a bit longer before getting killed). The one in 229 was a good example of done right.


Agreed. Much more interesting villains would help.

Some people say they find Malcolm a boring character. Fair enough. But the main character can be absolutely boring and the story can still sell. Look at James Bond. Does James Bond have an interesting personality? Nope. James Bond is probably the most boring popular series character of all time. The only things that make James Bond interesting are the locations, the girls, the gadgets, and the villains. Nothing about James Bond is interesting. Even the famous James Bond quotes like "Bond. James Bond." and "Shaken. Not stirred." are boring quotes. They are only memorable because of Sean Connery's accent. The quotes themselves are dead boring. There have been more than half a dozen actors playing James Bond and none of them managed to make the character himself interesting. That's why Daniel Craig can play the character without changing facial expression. How can you change the facial expression of a character who doesn't have a personality?

So if James Bond himself isn't interesting, what characters makes his stories interesting? The Bond girls? No. They're just eye candy. It's the villains. Without the eccentric villains supplying outlandish adventures, nobody would be interested in James Bond's stories. 

So a story can have a boring main character as long as there is one cool villain to keep the story going. So you're right when you say the story needs good villains that last longer. All the talk about Malcolm being a boring character would be gone if the story had some really cool villains.

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## DanMad1977

Absolutely.

I wonder what will happen on Glums planet. The girls looking for a solution to get Dragon back? Thats exciting, even if i dont believe in a return of the old Dragon.

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## Erik Larsen

> Sex _is_ normal. 
> 
> You know what isn't? Shooting a load so large it sends your wife flying across the room, ending up upside down with cum _pouring_ out of her vagina into her mouth. Let alone drawing that in your fucking comic. Neither of those things are normal, nor are they a healthy depiction of a normal, natural act practiced by adults.


Nobody argued that things like that are normal in _our_ world--but this _isn't_ our world. You might as well bitch about characters flying or surviving having been smashed through a tree or regrow body parts. None of that sort of thing is "normal" but the book isn't set in a real world and normal sex is--well--normal. There's really no reason to depict normal. Normal is uninteresting. Normal is banal. Normal is dull. Normal is boring. What would even be the point in depicting "normal" sex in a superhero comic book? What a letdown that would be--_oh, you mean it's the same as when I awkwardly do it? Who cares?_



> I have no problem with nudity or sex in comics, but this was the kind of vulgar nonsense a 13 year old would draw and think, 'man, that's funny!'. Guess what? It wasn't. It was juvenile, though. 
> 
> So yeah, I can see why people would have objections to that in a comic that's never been like that for the last 200+ issues.


It's had sexiness throughout though. Issue #17 had Dragon and Rapture naked in a shower. It's not as though it was a kids' book even early on. I was getting mail from younger readers telling me that their parents flipped out when they saw issues 25 years ago--so don't even pretend that this was Archie--because it was not.

As far as humor goes--that's subjective. One person sees the Three Stooges and thinks they're hilarious--others think it couldn't be more stupid. Who's "right"? That depends on who you ask. Some people find R. Crumb's work super offensive--others think he's a genius and his comics are brilliant. 

Buy what you like--don't buy what you don't like.

Not every comic book is for you nor should it be. I don't walk out of my local store with armloads of comics every week. I don't love every book. I don't even love every _Image_ book. 

And everything is hit and miss. I don't love every issue and every page of the books I do like uniformly. There are issues I love and issues I don't and when there get to be more _don't_ issues than _do_ issues I start having second thoughts about supporting a title. 

In any case--this isn't the book's bold, new direction or anything. There'll be issues like that and issues nothing like that. I'm not stuck in some rut where I'm forced to repeat myself every month. The book can change completely at my whim. Characters come and go.

You can read it or not read it. Those are your two options. That's where your decision-making comes into play. I get to decide what does and doesn't go in the book.

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## Coal Tiger

I recall when I was initially reading SD, everything was pretty PG-13 in terms of sex and language. I'm sure there was no external force keeping the content at a certain age level, but at some point it went from basic cable to HBO and I'm curious about how that decision happened.

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## skyvolt2000

> I'm fine with the violence, because in a superhero comics that will always be there.
> 
> Adult themes don't need to be there.
> 
> Marketed correctly and toned down a comic can reach more people and sell better.


So Erik should pander to the entitlement crew?

I can name a lot of books that are good reads but are viewed as PUBLIC ENEMY NUMBER ONE because folks take issue with the sex, skin color and sexual identity of the leads. Some for FALSE claims of too much politics in books. Despite the complainers never reading them.

Those same books like Erik's that are not welcomed at some comic book stores but find audiences elsewhere.


This was not meant to be a kid's book. NOT at all.

It shows a character doing what Batman and friends are NOT allowed to do-GROW UP.

He's not being hailed as the greatest blank at the expense of others like some guy name Hal Jordan nor Mary Sue teammates like Bruce Wayne.

He's not stuck in man vs monster storylines like a guy named Victor Stone.

He's a person with a job, family and opinions.

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## DanMad1977

I can certainly say, i was never bored with SD. Never. I disliked this and that, yes...but it never got stale. I read a lot of other books, and every once in a while i tend to just look at the pictures and am too lazy to read the word balloons, because its so...yeah boring. SD changes from time to time, and thats good. It can do what coorparate books cant. 

So go for it!

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## Paulie Blade

I don't want to sound like a previously mentioned 13-year old, but quite honestly, in a present world so drenched in political correctness, it feels SO refreshing to see some raunchiness here and there.

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## DanMad1977

> I don't want to sound like a previously mentioned 13-year old, but quite honestly, in a present world so drenched in political correctness, it feels SO refreshing to see some raunchiness here and there.


Damn right. In a world where everyone HAS to be a political correct, non smoking, slow driving, transgender loving, less drinking, baby sitting son of a candyass....it is really nice to see something for real men!  :Smile:

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## Dark-Flux

...y..yeah. Gotta hate that baby sitting. -_-

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## Paulie Blade

Nothing wrong with baby sitting, but even nothing-wronger with whatever leads to baby sitting :^)

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## Stefan

savage-dragon-vol2-cover-234-605x934.jpg

Remember that raunchy prostitute Dragon dated early on in the book? Back when things were so much more PG-13? Well, guess who back 

And that, ladies and gentlemen is how you do a cover.

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## CliffHanger2

Just read issue 230-WOW. I like the direction things are going in being that comics like this are pretty much extinct these days due to the outrage mob. It's been building up to this type of thing little by little but it is a little shocking I'll admit-but hey I'm not complaining. I'll never get why ppl get so triggered over super powers and sexual themes. It's basically built in to the genre.

 i do have a question for Erik though. There reportedly was a dispute between you and the creator of Ant about an Ant comic being to graphic . But you seem to be past that now-so what got you to go over the top? And will Ant be showing anytime soon? That'd be great.

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## Erik Larsen

> There reportedly was a dispute between you and the creator of Ant about an Ant comic being to graphic . But you seem to be past that now-so what got you to go over the top? And will Ant be showing anytime soon? That'd be great.


Apples and oranges. I'd actually provided layouts that he was to work from and he went off the rails and did something else entirely. 

Ant will be showing up again at some point--but don't expect her to be running around naked or anything.

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## CliffHanger2

> Apples and oranges. I'd actually provided layouts that he was to work from and he went off the rails and did something else entirely. 
> 
> Ant will be showing up again at some point--but don't expect her to be running around naked or anything.


Ok I see. Congrats on the inkwell looking forward to future issues.

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## Dark-Flux

Is an Ant solo still on the cards or will it be mostly appearances in SD from now on?

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## JFP

> Absolutely.
> 
> I wonder what will happen on Glums planet. The girls looking for a solution to get Dragon back? Thats exciting, even if i dont believe in a return of the old Dragon.


See now that's what's winding me down more than the sex and nudity. Glum. I find the character childish rather than being engaging as a villain. I am waiting for the day when Erik finally decides to kill off this character or let him fade into obscurity.



> So Erik should pander to the entitlement crew?
> 
> I can name a lot of books that are good reads but are viewed as PUBLIC ENEMY NUMBER ONE because folks take issue with the sex, skin color and sexual identity of the leads. Some for FALSE claims of too much politics in books. Despite the complainers never reading them.
> 
> Those same books like Erik's that are not welcomed at some comic book stores but find audiences elsewhere.
> 
> 
> This was not meant to be a kid's book. NOT at all.
> 
> ...


Cezar is cool, bro. He's not being insulting in his request. He's just saying it turns him off and he wants it gone. Nothing wrong with that.

As a guy who reads a lot of sex comics, Erik's stuff is tame compared to other stuff that's out there. So in my desensitized mind I'm surprised people are so livid over the sex in his book.

But maybe Cezar has a good point: an edited version and an unedited version should be put out. Or he could just make some sex comics for perverts like me. I'd add SD sex comics to pull list before the 1st issue came out. Heh heh.  :Cool:

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## DanMad1977

> Is an Ant solo still on the cards or will it be mostly appearances in SD from now on?


I would like to know that, too.

I would buy Ant as a solo series. I would welcome Erik writing it, and someone else drawing it, so Erik can concentrate on SD.

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## RumpusMagoo

> Apples and oranges. I'd actually provided layouts that he was to work from and he went off the rails and did something else entirely. 
> 
> Ant will be showing up again at some point--but don't expect her to be running around naked or anything.


Dear Mr. Larsen,

I am another big fan of Savage Dragon who will no longer purchase your comic as long as you are including the kind of graphic sexuality as depicted in #228. I was willing to accept it as a one off experiment on your part, until I read #230 and you had the Dimension X trio running around naked for no storytelling purpose that I can see.  And topped off with a full-frontal splash page. Your book used to be about superhero fights and adventure with the occasional naughty bits thrown in; I feel like now it's mostly about the sex with occasional nods to superheroes. The idea that Dragon has always had this stuff is completely disingenuous: you've never drawn this kind of explicit material before.

It's a shame, because like I said, I really like your superhero stuff and want to support it. I also get the idea that it's your book and you'll do what you want; that's not the issue here. Just because you can do a thing doesn't mean you should, or that it's good for the story. I'm not asking you to pander to my every whim as a reader here; I'm asking you not to put this content in that is utterly repellent and is distracting from the story you want to tell. And at the end of the day, don't you want people to buy your book?

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## Paulie Blade

> Dear Mr. Larsen,
> 
> I am another big fan of Savage Dragon who will no longer purchase your comic as long as you are including the kind of graphic sexuality as depicted in #228. I was willing to accept it as a one off experiment on your part, until I read #230 and you had the Dimension X trio running around naked for no storytelling purpose that I can see.  And topped off with a full-frontal splash page. Your book used to be about superhero fights and adventure with the occasional naughty bits thrown in; I feel like now it's mostly about the sex with occasional nods to superheroes. The idea that Dragon has always had this stuff is completely disingenuous: you've never drawn this kind of explicit material before.
> 
> It's a shame, because like I said, I really like your superhero stuff and want to support it. I also get the idea that it's your book and you'll do what you want; that's not the issue here. Just because you can do a thing doesn't mean you should, or that it's good for the story. I'm not asking you to pander to my every whim as a reader here; I'm asking you not to put this content in that is utterly repellent and is distracting from the story you want to tell. And at the end of the day, don't you want people to buy your book?


I don't get it. I suppose you have nothing against extreme violence in comic books? How is gore less repellent than sex?




> And at the end of the day, don't you want people to buy your book?


An artist whose creations are dictated by the number of sells is not a happy artist.

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## RumpusMagoo

> I don't get it. I suppose you have nothing against extreme violence in comic books? How is gore less repellent than sex?


Gore is less repellent than 3 page sequence of a woman being blown across the room by a spray of semen and having male ejaculate drip from her vagina to her mouth...but that's my opinion. If we're going to have a discussion about "sex" in superhero comics, then let's get specific about what we're talking about. This isn't a panel of Dragon and Rapture taking a shower together or two people naked in a bed here.  This is hardcore X-rated material. Giving this comic an "M" rating doesn't really cover it, because there doesn't seem to be anything mature or sophisticated about on-panel snowballing. 

BTW, I have limits on gore as well; which is why I don't read Crossed.





> An artist whose creations are dictated by the number of sells is not a happy artist.


 Artists have to eat too, don't they?

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## Paulie Blade

It indeed is a matter of opinion whether gore or extreme sex is more repellent. To me neither is  :Embarrassment: 




> Artists have to eat too, don't they?


Perhaps _starving_ artists should consider such foul path of catering to the whims of the audience. Every other should create what the hell they like.

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## dishpan

> I don't get it. I suppose you have nothing against extreme violence in comic books? How is gore less repellent than sex?


This. Basically all American media fails that, sadly. It's totally backwards.

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## RumpusMagoo

> It indeed is a matter of opinion whether gore or extreme sex is more repellent. To me neither is


Which is fine Paulie, you're entitled to consume whatever media you want (excluding kiddie porn stuff). I hope I am entitled not to as well. Keep in mind, I'm only saying I can't support this, I'm not saying that nobody else should or that it should be banned.

[/QUOTE] *Perhaps starving artists should consider such foul path of catering to the whims of the audience. Every other should create what the hell they like.*[/QUOTE] 

I believe Erik once said that he wouldn't keep making Savage Dragon if it turned out not to be profitable, so there's at least some monetary considerations there. And I'm assuming that he wants people to read his book, which is why he's publishing it through Image, instead of selling comics out of his garage.

But "catering to the whims of the audience"? Really? If I was demanding that Deadpool and Batman make guest star appearances or Maxine die that would be catering. An observation that a 3 page sex scene in a $3.99 book seems too much for me is an opinion. I mean, obviously CBR believes that somethings are too graphic, or else the would allow people to post scans of the scene and then we can all judge for ourselves, right?

----------


## RumpusMagoo

> This. Basically all American media fails that, sadly. It's totally backwards.


There's some cultural truths in that.

I've had some time to think of this, and part of the problem is how these things are rated in comics.  In movies there's a designation between R and NC 17 or NR. So when I saw the first Deadpool movie, it was violent and had sex stuff, but I didn't expect to see genitals or a full screen money shot (ala porn). But in comics, an M rating appears to cover all bases, from soft core cheesecake, to full frontal nudity and body fluids.

----------


## JFP

> Which is fine Paulie, you're entitled to consume whatever media you want (excluding kiddie porn stuff). I hope I am entitled not to as well. Keep in mind, I'm only saying I can't support this, I'm not saying that nobody else should or that it should be banned.
> 
> I believe Erik once said that he wouldn't keep making Savage Dragon if it turned out not to be profitable, so there's at least some monetary considerations there. And I'm assuming that he wants people to read his book, which is why he's publishing it through Image, instead of selling comics out of his garage.
> 
> But "catering to the whims of the audience"? Really? If I was demanding that Deadpool and Batman make guest star appearances or Maxine die that would be catering. An observation that a 3 page sex scene in a $3.99 book seems too much for me is an opinion. I mean, obviously CBR believes that somethings are too graphic, or else the would allow people to post scans of the scene and then we can all judge for ourselves, right?


Actually, no one is entitled to consume kiddie porn in the United States. That stuff will get you jailed, put on the sex offender list, and socially ostracized. 

By the way, was it really that scene alone that has gotten everyone riled up? Or do the other sex scenes bother people too?

----------


## JFP

> There's some cultural truths in that.
> 
> I've had some time to think of this, and part of the problem is how these things are rated in comics.  In movies there's a designation between R and NC 17 or NR. So when I saw the first Deadpool movie, it was violent and had sex stuff, but I didn't expect to see genitals or a full screen money shot (ala porn). But in comics, an M rating appears to cover all bases, from soft core cheesecake, to full frontal nudity and body fluids.


I thought he was referring to the part that the most violent gore can get shown on daytime TV while the side of a butt cheek causes the censors to have a heart attack.

----------


## Dark-Flux

> Actually, no one is entitled to consume kiddie porn in the United States. That stuff will get you jailed, put on the sex offender list, and socially ostracized.


He said; 'excluding.'

----------


## JFP

> He said; 'excluding.'


My bad. Can't believe I missed that 3 syllable word right there. :Frown:

----------


## icctrombone

I have every issue from the original mini to # 224 of the main series, I dropped the book at that point.  I love Savage Dragon but I got tired of the Trump bashing. I know he hates him but it gets tiring after a while.

----------


## RumpusMagoo

> I thought he was referring to the part that the most violent gore can get shown on daytime TV while the side of a butt cheek causes the censors to have a heart attack.


I can't speak to that, since I don't watch daytime TV nowadays. Do they still make soap operas?

----------


## RumpusMagoo

> I have every issue from the original mini to # 224 of the main series, I dropped the book at that point.  I love Savage Dragon but I got tired of the Trump bashing. I know he hates him but it gets tiring after a while.


Ok, two thoughts on this:
1) You obviously know that Larsen's politics are left-of-center.  So what did you think about that issue where Dragon punched Bush in the face? (Just curious)
2) I read the letters in SD from that guy in Kentucky(?) who said he would stop reading for the same reasons, and it got me thinking; How would I (as a liberal) react if he did an issue of Hilary saying "Kill them all" or punching Obama in the face? I probably would not get so angry I would stop reading, but it would tick me off and interfere with my enjoyment of the story.  So in the spirit of intellectual honesty, I can't really criticize you for your decision (despite having what I assume are different politics). Especially when I've just posted that I was dropping the book for different reasons.

----------


## JFP

> I can't speak to that, since I don't watch daytime TV nowadays. Do they still make soap operas?


It was just an example. 

It's mainly about how violence in the media is okay; but sex and nudity isn't, in America.

Back when Blockbuster was still around, the most violent Stallone or Segal movie would get center attention near a new kid's movie. But Shannon Tweed's latest erotic thriller got shoved in the back like it was a radioactive waste. 

In America, many parents won't object to their kids watching the most violent movies out there. But a woman in a too skimpy bikini is a definite no-no. I was 10 years old when Pulp Fiction came out. When I was 12, I was one of the few kids who hadn't seen it. No one blinked at the sight of elementary school kids with Pulp Fiction t-shirts. But man-oh-man, when I was 18, a t-shirt like this got a call from my parents and principal said I wouldn't be allowed to be in school with this shirt.

https://www.spreadshirt.com/red+hot+...rts-A108125274

I kid you not. When I was 18, a senior, I wore a shirt like the one in the link above and I didn't even get to first period before I was pulled into the principal's office and had a talk with the principle, the vice, and a few other teachers about how my shirt was inappropriate. While at the same time there were kids in elementary and high school wearing t-shirts like the Pulp Fiction shirt with Samuel L. Jackson and Travolta pointing guns.

But that's America for you. Still hasn't moved past the 17th century view of sex. While the "progressive" views regarding guns and violence are the source behind so many gun massacres and street violence.

----------


## RumpusMagoo

> It was just an example. 
> 
> It's mainly about how violence in the media is okay; but sex and nudity isn't, in America.
> 
> Back when Blockbuster was still around, the most violent Stallone or Segal movie would get center attention near a new kid's movie. But Shannon Tweed's latest erotic thriller got shoved in the back like it was a radioactive waste. 
> 
> In America, many parents won't object to their kids watching the most violent movies out there. But a woman in a too skimpy bikini is a definite no-no. I was 10 years old when Pulp Fiction came out. When I was 12, I was one of the few kids who hadn't seen it. No one blinked at the sight of elementary school kids with Pulp Fiction t-shirts. But man-oh-man, when I was 18, a t-shirt like this got a call from my parents and principal said I wouldn't be allowed to be in school with this shirt.
> 
> https://www.spreadshirt.com/red+hot+...rts-A108125274
> ...


I do see your point, and it is true. If I had my say, "The Passion of the Christ" probably would have earned an NC-17 rating, but I heard of whole families going to the theater to watch it.

Back to the Dragon book, I think that part of the issue was that I was not expecting something quite that explicit in the issue.  It makes a difference for me if I am prepared for something like that or not.  For example, I did not have a huge issue with the sex in "Y Tu Mama Tambien" or "Blue is the Warmest Color" because I was aware that those movies would be explicit like that. Explicit sex in superhero comics seems really weird to me, unless I'm reading something like Watchmen.  I guess I'm just more used to extreme violence in comics, since all comics (including T rated ones) have become more violent overall.

----------


## icctrombone

> Ok, two thoughts on this:
> 1) You obviously know that Larsen's politics are left-of-center.  So what did you think about that issue where Dragon punched Bush in the face? (Just curious)
> 2) I read the letters in SD from that guy in Kentucky(?) who said he would stop reading for the same reasons, and it got me thinking; How would I (as a liberal) react if he did an issue of Hilary saying "Kill them all" or punching Obama in the face? I probably would not get so angry I would stop reading, but it would tick me off and interfere with my enjoyment of the story.  So in the spirit of intellectual honesty, I can't really criticize you for your decision (despite having what I assume are different politics). Especially when I've just posted that I was dropping the book for different reasons.


If it was a one off like the Bush assault, I could just ignore it and enjoy the book, But I find the constant mention of the President to be something that takes me out of the story. Larsen has one of the most unpredictable super hero books out there, he's making the book a lesser product by letting his hate ruin the storytelling.

----------


## RumpusMagoo

> If it was a one off like the Bush assault, I could just ignore it and enjoy the book, But I find the constant mention of the President to be something that takes me out of the story. Larsen has one of the most unpredictable super hero books out there, he's making the book a lesser product by letting his hate ruin the storytelling.


Okay.  I can respect that. Every reader has individual ideas about where the line is, and when an artist crosses it. Obviously, a line was crossed here for you.

----------


## JFP

> I do see your point, and it is true. If I had my say, "The Passion of the Christ" probably would have earned an NC-17 rating, but I heard of whole families going to the theater to watch it.
> 
> Back to the Dragon book, I think that part of the issue was that I was not expecting something quite that explicit in the issue.  It makes a difference for me if I am prepared for something like that or not.  For example, I did not have a huge issue with the sex in "Y Tu Mama Tambien" or "Blue is the Warmest Color" because I was aware that those movies would be explicit like that. Explicit sex in superhero comics seems really weird to me, unless I'm reading something like Watchmen.  I guess I'm just more used to extreme violence in comics, since all comics (including T rated ones) have become more violent overall.


Were you turned off by that one sex scene? Or was all the nudity and sex in general a turnoff?

I've checked other peoples' reactions and many seem to be turned off by the sex and nudity in general. I remember a scene with Batman and Catwoman having sex got people riled up. Link below:

https://www.google.com/search?q=batm...leZscvsDfY0_M:

And it didn't even show them having sex. It merely showed the first seconds and the afterglow.

People were livid over that being too explicit.

Batman causes a man to shoot his balls off and people are like, "Right on, Batman."

3429324-1058031151-_Batma.jpg

Creators show Batman getting laid and fanboys squeal, "How could they show Batman doing such a thing?"

c1 (1).jpg

----------


## icctrombone

> It indeed is a matter of opinion whether gore or extreme sex is more repellent. To me neither is 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps _starving_ artists should consider such foul path of catering to the whims of the audience. Every other should create what the hell they like.


I'm guessing that Erik is doing fine financially, I hope he is. But if the book starts to lose money it would be beyond stubborn to continue doing that doesn't sell.  If he's selling 5k and it drops to 2K, then the comic buyers are voting with their wallets. That's something every businessman has to respect. Again, I have all of the SD run until #225, so I'm a big fan.

----------


## RumpusMagoo

> Were you turned off by that one sex scene? Or was all the nudity and sex in general a turnoff?
> 
> I've checked other peoples' reactions and many seem to be turned off by the sex and nudity in general. I remember a scene with Batman and Catwoman having sex got people riled up. Link below:
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?q=batm...leZscvsDfY0_M:
> 
> And it didn't even show them having sex. It merely showed the first seconds and the afterglow.
> 
> People were livid over that being too explicit.
> ...


I think that scene in particular, plus the full-frontal nudity in issue 230 pretty much broke me. That seemed like something new for this book, and I just wasn’t on board. I can’t speak to the Batman examples because I don’t read that book.

----------


## icctrombone

> I think that scene in particular, plus the full-frontal nudity in issue 230 pretty much broke me. That seemed like something new for this book, and I just wasn’t on board. I can’t speak to the Batman examples because I don’t read that book.


I jumped off right before the fluid scenes in the SD book so I can't speak to how offensive some people  found it. I will say that there have been sex scenes during his run but it's mostly a page at best. It's not like an entire 22 page book is devoted to XXX. The Sex wouldn't be enough to make me drop it. And I agree with what Erik said earlier in this thread that it's all over the top fantasy stuff.

----------


## RumpusMagoo

> I jumped off right before the fluid scenes in the SD book so I can't speak to how offensive some people  found it. I will say that there have been sex scenes during his run but it's mostly a page at best. It's not like an entire 22 page book is devoted to XXX. The Sex wouldn't be enough to make me drop it. And I agree with what Erik said earlier in this thread that it's all over the top fantasy stuff.


You should go on SCANS daily and check out that scene. We’re not talking about a flash of boobs or a panel of a woman in a shower here. This is a graphic XXX scene that would warrant an adults only label. But don’t take my word for it. Google the scene and judge for yourself.

----------


## Dark-Flux

I'll poke my head in here and express that, putting all aspects of the sexual stuff aside for a moment, I've really been enjoying SD for the last year or so. The Merging of Multiple Earths arc has been a lot of fun and a great throwback to the SOS era. Plus its a big help in getting my head around the multiple timeline continuity now that everything happened.  :Smile:

----------


## JFP

> I'll poke my head in here and express that, putting all aspects of the sexual stuff aside for a moment, I've really been enjoying SD for the last year or so. The Merging of Multiple Earths arc has been a lot of fun and a great through-back to the SOS era. Plus its a bit help in getting my head around the multiple timeline continuity now that everything happened.


Who are you talking to? :Confused:

----------


## Dark-Flux

> Who are you talking to?


Wasnt a reply. Just declaring my thoughts on the current state of the book. Jeez.

----------


## Paulie Blade

Lol. This shows how dominated by the sex talk this thread is.

----------


## DanMad1977

How many superhero books with sex in it do we have? And how many without sex do we have? 

99% percent are sexless. So, yay for SD to be different.

----------


## icctrombone

I decided to start to buy SD again. Lets see what happens.

----------


## JFP

> Wasnt a reply. Just declaring my thoughts on the current state of the book. Jeez.





> Lol. This shows how dominated by the sex talk this thread is.


I was genuinely confused about what he was talking about. I read stuff about multiple Earths and I thought, "We were talking about sex, where the hell did this astronomy stuff come from?" 

I seriously didn't know where he was coming from. Musta been the V.O. confusing me (vodka/orange juice for you non-drinkers)



> I decided to start to buy SD again. Lets see what happens.


Hahaha! 

Magoo told you to check out the sex scene. You checked it out. And you thought, "Well, maybe I was too haste when I decided to drop the title. Perhaps I should give it another shot."

Come on, bro, be honest. The scene made you wanna pick up the book again, rather than turning you off. :Cool:

----------


## icctrombone

> I was genuinely confused about what he was talking about. I read stuff about multiple Earths and I thought, "We were talking about sex, where the hell did this astronomy stuff come from?" 
> 
> I seriously didn't know where he was coming from. Musta been the V.O. confusing me (vodka/orange juice for you non-drinkers)
> 
> *Hahaha! 
> 
> Magoo told you to check out the sex scene. You checked it out. And you thought, "Well, maybe I was too haste when I decided to drop the title. Perhaps I should give it another shot."
> 
> Come on, bro, be honest. The scene made you wanna pick up the book again, rather than turning you off.*


*
*
Ha! No, I haven't tracked down that issue yet. I was watching some videos about Image and Larsen and I decided to see if he's toned down the Trump hate. I do enjoy his book otherwise.

----------


## Dark-Flux

> I was genuinely confused about what he was talking about. I read stuff about multiple Earths and I thought, "We were talking about sex, where the hell did this astronomy stuff come from?"


Its literally what the plot of the entire last arc of the series was about...

----------


## RumpusMagoo

> How many superhero books with sex in it do we have? And how many without sex do we have? 
> 
> 99% percent are sexless. So, yay for SD to be different.


Oh, that scene was sure “different” all right.

----------


## RumpusMagoo

> Lol. This shows how dominated by the sex talk this thread is.


I’m pretty sure that this was Larsen’s intention; to provoke. And he did for me. Good job; I guess?

----------


## DanMad1977

I am not sure if Erik did it to provoke. My guess is that he just does what he likes. And if i remember correctly he was talking to fans (Facebook, letters page etc.) about going all adult in his book, at least he approached the subject before.

----------


## RumpusMagoo

> I am not sure if Erik did it to provoke. My guess is that he just does what he likes. And if i remember correctly he was talking to fans (Facebook, letters page etc.) about going all adult in his book, at least he approached the subject before.


I believe Erik said a one point that he enjoyed the idea of a reader turning the page and doing a spit take. He’s a smart guy; he knew what the reaction would be.

----------


## DanMad1977

Ok, a WTF moment is always good. I like it as much as a cliffhanger. But sex scenes, if used regulary are not shock moments anymore. hmm...

----------


## icctrombone

> Ok, a WTF moment is always good. I like it as much as a cliffhanger. But sex scenes, if used regulary are not shock moments anymore. hmm...



There have been sex scenes since the beginning , just not explicit like in the issue in question.

----------


## DanMad1977

Yep, i know. I read all issues and spin offs. But the sex thing was always a minor thing, now its getting a hughe push. Though, the story or anything else does not suffer from it...

----------


## Cezar The Scribe

wikispaces.com  is closing soon.

Is the information going to be moved? 

wikia.com/fandom would be a good place.

----------


## Cezar The Scribe

Are the guys guys who edit wikispaces on this site?  (Craig_O and MarkWeiser )

----------


## Stefan

I don't know if any of the guys from the Wiki are members of this forum, but I am in contact with them and we are looking into solutions for the problem. At this point we are thinking about making the Wiki part of the official website, which I am running. 

So, yeah, we are aware that wikispaces is closing and it will be moved somewhere else, we just don't know how and where exactly.

----------


## Cezar The Scribe

@Stefan

Okay, thanks for the reply.

----------


## Erik Larsen

> I have every issue from the original mini to # 224 of the main series, I dropped the book at that point.  I love Savage Dragon but I got tired of the Trump bashing. I know he hates him but it gets tiring after a while.


So--Malcolm moved up to Canada immediately following your departure and Trump hasn't been mentioned since.

No, wait--he's mentioned by a villain in #232 which is out this week (spoilers) but he has not been a presence to speak of. In any case--if that was your beef--you picked a fine time to bug out!

----------


## Erik Larsen

> Dear Mr. Larsen,
> 
> I am another big fan of Savage Dragon who will no longer purchase your comic as long as you are including the kind of graphic sexuality as depicted in #228. I was willing to accept it as a one off experiment on your part, until I read #230 and you had the Dimension X trio running around naked for no storytelling purpose that I can see.  And topped off with a full-frontal splash page. Your book used to be about superhero fights and adventure with the occasional naughty bits thrown in; I feel like now it's mostly about the sex with occasional nods to superheroes. The idea that Dragon has always had this stuff is completely disingenuous: you've never drawn this kind of explicit material before.
> 
> It's a shame, because like I said, I really like your superhero stuff and want to support it. I also get the idea that it's your book and you'll do what you want; that's not the issue here. Just because you can do a thing doesn't mean you should, or that it's good for the story. I'm not asking you to pander to my every whim as a reader here; I'm asking you not to put this content in that is utterly repellent and is distracting from the story you want to tell. And at the end of the day, don't you want people to buy your book?


People do buy my book and increasingly I'm hearing from _new_ readers who are checking out the series for the first time. Whenever I do something that gets readers talking--they talk--and readers decide to check out the book and see what all the fuss is about.

The book _isn't_ becoming a porn book. 

No more than it became a _horror_ book when Debbie crawled out of her grave or became a _sci-fi_ book when Dragon was in space or became a _romance_ book when Dragon was dating Jennifer or became a _teenage angst book_ when Malcolm was in high school. I experiment--I try out different things and it goes from being one kind of book to another. If you're looking for a predictable book that will be the same for years on end--Savage Dragon may not be the book for you. If you're looking for something unpredictable--where anything could happen on the next page--this might be right up your alley. 

But you do what you want to do.

----------


## JFP

> The book _isn't_ becoming a porn book.

----------


## icctrombone

> So--Malcolm moved up to Canada immediately following your departure and Trump hasn't been mentioned since.
> 
> No, wait--he's mentioned by a villain in #232 which is out this week (spoilers) but he has not been a presence to speak of. In any case--if that was your beef--you picked a fine time to bug out!



Aww, I broke down and started buying it again. Now I have to track down the porn issue.  :Frown:

----------


## DanMad1977

I just read 230 and 231. I had to read 230 for free because it didnt ship in my country. The Nazi content is not allowed to import here, so no chance...231 shipped regulary. 

I like the parts in Dimension X the most. Naked babes running around and fighting, thats my kind of fun  :Stick Out Tongue:  

The cliffhanger was a wtf moment...

At the end of the month i will visit the USA (NY) and hunt down the comic shops for 230.

----------


## Montressor

I love the frenetic look of the art. The action scenes are awesome, too. I commend Mr. Larsen for going with the real-time thing, as well. I'm new to the book, enjoying it so far.

----------


## JFP

> Aww, I broke down and started buying it again. Now I have to track down the porn issue.


Honestly bro, it's not really a porn issue. It's just an issue that features a sex scene. Yes, it was an intense scene. But is there a heterosexual male alive who has never fantasized about shooting a load so strong it causes the hot chick he's banging to knock against the wall, have the cum drip in her mouth, and then she looks you in the eye and says, "I've never been handled like that? That's the best sex I've ever had."

But really, it wasn't merely the sex act. It was the shot of sex in general. In one Catwoman issue, they showed Batman and Catwoman having foreplay and afterglow. No sex or nudity. Just foreplay and afterglow. Man, do I remember a bunch of adult male fans past 30 throwing a hissyfit over that on comic book forums. They were saying things like, "We all know Batman and Catwoman have sex. But to be that explicit kills our childhood fantasy of a pure superhero." 

Many readers feel that superhero comics can be as violent as possible but any explicit hint of sex is wrong. 



> I just read 230 and 231. I had to read 230 for free because it didnt ship in my country. The Nazi content is not allowed to import here, so no chance...231 shipped regulary. 
> 
> I like the parts in Dimension X the most. Naked babes running around and fighting, thats my kind of fun  
> 
> The cliffhanger was a wtf moment...
> 
> At the end of the month i will visit the USA (NY) and hunt down the comic shops for 230.


Jeepers. Flying all the way from Berlin to New York for one comic book? Now that's dedication! :Cool:

----------


## DanMad1977

Funny that you think that i am flying or living in Berlin. There are more citys in Germany than that  :Big Grin: , even if my country is the size of your hometown  :Cool: 

And i am not just traveling for only one SD 230, but for 3!!! Buddys of mine are also looking for it. So the journey is even more worthwhile...

----------


## icctrombone

> *Honestly bro, it's not really a porn issue.* It's just an issue that features a sex scene. Yes, it was an intense scene. But is there a heterosexual male alive who has never fantasized about shooting a load so strong it causes the hot chick he's banging to knock against the wall, have the cum drip in her mouth, and then she looks you in the eye and says, "I've never been handled like that? That's the best sex I've ever had."



Yeah, I know I was just kidding. Actually in Erik's long run there have been many sex scenes they just haven't included seminal fluid.

----------


## BigLbo

i like to pick up a few issues of dragon every now and then just to see what the hells going on,  never a boring read.

what would you guys says are the best or essential issues to buy for a fan of Mako??  i've been buying any issue with him on the cover.

----------


## Erik Larsen

> i like to pick up a few issues of dragon every now and then just to see what the hells going on,  never a boring read.
> 
> what would you guys says are the best or essential issues to buy for a fan of Mako??  i've been buying any issue with him on the cover.


According to the SAVAGE DRAGON WIKI:


APPEARANCES:

BIG BRUISERS
Oneshot

DRAGON
2, 3

EXTREME SUPER CHRISTMAS SPECIAL
Oneshot (P/U)

FREAK FORCE v1
2

FREAK FORCE v2
1, 2, 3

IMAGE UNITED
1, 2, 3 (Cover)

MAXX
6

SAVAGE DRAGON
3, 24, 26, 49, 50, 65, 70, 75, 81, 93, 94, 95, 96, 100, 104, 112, 115 (Image)(B/U) , 127, 135, 139, 151, 154, 163 (T/F) , 165 (T/F) , 172 (B/U) , 179, 180, 185, 187, 190, 191

SAVAGE DRAGON MINI-SERIES
1, 2

SAVAGE DRAGON/DESTROYER DUCK
Oneshot

SAVAGE DRAGON/MARSHAL LAW
1

SHATTERED IMAGE
2

STAR
3, 4

SUPERMAN/SAVAGE DRAGON: CHICAGO
Oneshot

SUPERPATRIOT
2 (F/B)

TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES v3
2, 3, 4, 5

WILDC.A.T.S
26, 29

----------


## BigLbo

thanks,  much appreciated!!

----------


## GOLGO 13

> According to the SAVAGE DRAGON WIKI:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAVAGE DRAGON/MARSHAL LAW
> 1


I want this in a black & white version so I can see the pencil work in all it's glory. Erik can you just "acquire" the Marshall Law (IP) & make him even more belligerent?  Mills & O'Neill aren't doing anything with him for the foreseeable.

----------


## DanMad1977

Back from NY and i just got two copys of SD 230. I visited every comic shop in NY and still just fetched this two. So NY is sold out  :Big Grin:

----------


## Dark-Flux

> I want this in a black & white version so I can see the pencil work in all it's glory. Erik can you just "acquire" the Marshall Law (IP) & make him even more belligerent?  Mills & O'Neill aren't doing anything with him for the foreseeable.


DC own the IP dont they?

----------


## Erik Larsen

> DC own the IP dont they?


Not that I know of. 

Regardless--it's not something I would acquire or use.

----------


## GOLGO 13

> Not that I know of. 
> 
> Regardless--it's not something I would acquire or use.


Dreams destroyed!  Larseeeeeen!!!

----------


## fin5

Just picked up my first Savage Dragon book the tpb merging of multiple earths Im been hearing thinks about it but never read one so I got this my first Frey into Savage Dragon .Next I have to pick up 228-233

----------


## Erik Larsen

> Dreams destroyed!  Larseeeeeen!!!


I have hundreds of my own characters, most of which are being neglected, and it'd be pointless to acquire others that I have no stories I'd like to tell with.

----------


## BigLbo

> I have hundreds of my own characters, most of which are being neglected, and it'd be pointless to acquire others that I have no stories I'd like to tell with.


that's too bad for me,  but if you know anybody in need of characters i'm willing to sell mine ala carte. :Smile: 

quick question,  i picked up "the dragon" #2 in a bargain bin at a con recently because was on the list of Mako appearances, when i opened it up i could swear i read it before. so i ask why was "savage" dropped from the title and are the dragon issues just reprints??

----------


## Erik Larsen

> that's too bad for me,  but if you know anybody in need of characters i'm willing to sell mine ala carte.
> 
> quick question,  i picked up "the dragon" #2 in a bargain bin at a con recently because was on the list of Mako appearances, when i opened it up i could swear i read it before. so i ask why was "savage" dropped from the title and are the dragon issues just reprints??


The Dragon series was just reprints. It was an inexpensive, expanded version of the original miniseries.

----------


## BigLbo

> The Dragon series was just reprints. It was an inexpensive, expanded version of the original miniseries.


thanks,  i did notice the .99 price tag on the cover.  i wish that kind of stuff happened more often with reprints.

----------


## koonfasa

Has there been or will there be a hardcover deluxe option like the Spawn one?

----------


## fin5

Erik Larsen.I was wondering if there will be and interviews for what you have planes for 250

----------


## Erik Larsen

> Erik Larsen.I was wondering if there will be and interviews for what you have plans for 250


Maybe when I get closer. At this point that's a year away.

----------


## Erik Larsen

> Has there been or will there be a hardcover deluxe option like the Spawn one?


There have been some hardcover book along the way. Nothing oversized as of yet and it would be a huge, time-consuming, expensive thing to do. I'm 240+ issues in. If I included 12 issues per volume that'd be 20 volumes. That's a lot of books and a huge printing bill.

----------


## MagSeven

> Just picked up my first Savage Dragon book the tpb merging of multiple earths Im been hearing thinks about it but never read one so I got this my first Frey into Savage Dragon .Next I have to pick up 228-233


I'd suggest you go back as early as you can. At least to issue 1 of the ongoing. Everything builds and there are lots of callbacks. Definitely use the Savage Dragon Wiki if reading the whole shebang isn't possible for you for whatever reason. This is the only title I'm proud to say I own every issue of and is still the first read of the month.

----------


## MagSeven

Erik, as a reader since issue 1 (waaaaay back in the...shit 5th grade) I am wondering if you have buried the hatchet with Peter David? I read your stuff before David's. I first "discovered" you when I was reading Spider-Man. But then Dragon came along and I read every inch of the book, including the letter columns. That's when I first heard of Peter David in your correspondence with him in said columns. I blindly sided with you on most things because I was biased and in hindsight, I agree with a lot of what you said, but much later on I became to know David's work with X-factor and Hulk back issues and no longer thought of him as some know-it-all malcontent. I saw how he loves the characters he is writing ( For the record, I loved how you had Ock beat Hulk. You brought quite a bit of bad-assery to Doc). But long story short, I grew to like David as a writer at a later time, after the fact and I'm wondering if you ever found common ground and squashed the beef you had in the early 90s.
I hope you have. You both always continue to put out good stories on a consistent basis and that is a rarity these days. Please keep it up.

----------


## Erik Larsen

> Erik, as a reader since issue 1 (waaaaay back in the...shit 5th grade) I am wondering if you have buried the hatchet with Peter David?


There was never a formal apology by either party or anything but I think both of us have moved on. When he was in a bad way recently I did donate to the cause and advise him on how he could help dig himself out. When I took on Aquaman he sent over an email warning me about the pitfalls of working with that book's editor. So there was never a moment where either of us said what we did was at all wrong but we've both just put that behind us and moved on with our lives. I don't sit here seething with rage about the guy. He's simply not a part of my life for the most part and I would imagine the same is true in his life.

----------


## MagSeven

> There was never a formal apology by either party or anything but I think both of us have moved on. When he was in a bad way recently I did donate to the cause and advise him on how he could help dig himself out. When I took on Aquaman he sent over an email warning me about the pitfalls of working with that book's editor. So there was never a moment where either of us said what we did was at all wrong but we've both just put that behind us and moved on with our lives. I don't sit here seething with rage about the guy. He's simply not a part of my life for the most part and I would imagine the same is true in his life.


Nice. Thanks for indulging me. As soon as I hit post, I figured "this isn't really any of my fucking business", but I let the post sit. Again, thanks for the insight. Even if you aren't besties, glad to know you aren't enemies. Oh, and it's time for a new Fiend to make a comeback (Malcolm must have screwed someone over bad enough for a Devil Deal).

----------


## CliffHanger2

Wow Savage Dragon has been pretty raunchy this year and I like it. Can't see how Malcolm and Maxine are going to survive that stripper fiasco though.lol.

----------


## witchboy

Anybody know when the next SD tpb is coming out. It seems like it's getting close to a year since the last one and nothing's up for pre-order yet.
I'm in a rural area where getting monthly comics just isn't convenient, so it works better for me to get the trades, but the wait can be hell.

----------


## Scott M Davis

With any luck, hopefully 2 this year. With probably another archive end of next year.

----------


## Erik Larsen

> Anybody know when the next SD tpb is coming out.


*SAVAGE DRAGON: As Seen on TV TPB*
STORY/ART/COVER: *ERIK LARSEN*

MAY 8 / 160 PAGES / FC / M / $24.99

Malcolm and Maxine make their move to Toronto, Canada! The reality show staring Malcolm Dragon's ever-growing family debuts and impending doom is just around the corner! Featuring the maddening menace of The Seeker! The Wraith! The Alt-Reich! The Sinister Sex-Dolls! Sludge! Plus the return of Freak Force! And Battle Girl’s Dimension-X adventure pitted against Dark Rapture and her band of Bully Boys! Another wild ride from award-winning writer/artist Erik Larsen 

*Collects SAVAGE DRAGON #228-234*

----------


## kantor

> This is the only title I'm proud to say I own every issue of and is still the first read of the month.


I'd like to proudly say this too, but sadly I'm still missing issue #230 (everything else I own). There seems to be a problem with sending this book to germany, cause my comics dealer keeps on trying to get it for me, but no luck so far.  :Frown: 

Maybe it's because there is a swastika on the cover?

----------


## DanMad1977

> I'd like to proudly say this too, but sadly I'm still missing issue #230 (everything else I own). There seems to be a problem with sending this book to germany, cause my comics dealer keeps on trying to get it for me, but no luck so far. 
> 
> Maybe it's because there is a swastika on the cover?


Yes there is. You can hardly see it, but its there. I didnt get the issue as well over here in germany. My luck i was in NY after the issue hit and searched the whole city. I got two copies, and i dont know how many shops i visited, maybe ten or more...

----------


## icctrombone

Unfortunately, there isn't a huge demand for SD, that's why I have it ordered in my LCS on a monthly basis.

----------


## Shadowcat

Just started reading Savage Dragon. On the third issue of the mini series, and then working on the first 39 issues, until I can get more floppies. I’ve been told to expect a bumpy ride.

----------


## BigLbo

is there an issue of Dragon with Mako origin story??

----------


## Sparko

Definitely a series I’d love to read in its entirety, but it seems rather hard to jump on and get the whole story in color without missing an issue and/or chasing down back issues.

----------


## Scott M Davis

You can get the whole series up to issue 225 in B&W Archives that are $20.

You do lose a little of the story without the colour. but its a cheap easy way to catch up, putting you about 20 issues behind.

----------


## Sparko

Thank you for that, Scott! I appreciate the info.

----------


## Scott M Davis

NP mate. I just order vol 3-9 of the archives.  it reads really well in only massive 25 issue collection.  I think there will probably be a 10th one out, collecting 226 -250, around Christmas or beginning of next year,

----------


## icctrombone

I took a selfie with Erik In last years NYCCC

----------


## icctrombone

I got these two books signed.

----------


## Erik Larsen

> is there an issue of Dragon with Mako origin story??


No. His origin is mentioned in brief (being mauled by a shark at ground zero) but it's never been depicted. Once you have the how--showing it didn't seem necessary.

----------


## BigLbo

> No. His origin is mentioned in brief (being mauled by a shark at ground zero) but it's never been depicted. *Once you have the how--showing it didn't seem necessary.*


true,  though i'd still love to see it.  what is your view of the character and his significance within the universe you've created??

----------


## KROENEN

I'm hoping to see some *Jimbo Da Mighty Lobster* comics someday.  I seriously think that was a great character, hoping the owner has done something with it!

----------


## Dark-Flux

Its been to cool to have Ant back in the book recently. Which got me thinking; given the increased sexual content of the book lately Erik, has that given you any thought as to publishing those last few issues of Ant with Mario Gully that were originally shelved for being too sexually suggestive? Maybe as a backup feature?

----------


## DanMad1977

That would be great...

I would like to see more Ant!

----------


## Erik Larsen

> I'm hoping to see some *Jimbo Da Mighty Lobster* comics someday.  I seriously think that was a great character, hoping the owner has done something with it!


As far as I have been able to discern Jimbo's creator has passed away, leaving Jimbo an orphan.

----------


## Erik Larsen

> Its been to cool to have Ant back in the book recently. Which got me thinking; given the increased sexual content of the book lately Erik, has that given you any thought as to publishing those last few issues of Ant with Mario Gully that were originally shelved for being too sexually suggestive? Maybe as a backup feature?


As far as I'm aware--everything Mario's done with the character has seen print.

----------


## KROENEN

> As far as I have been able to discern Jimbo's creator has passed away, leaving Jimbo an orphan.


Now that is a serious bummer, long live JIMBO!

----------


## Erik Larsen

> Now that is a serious bummer, long live JIMBO!


Without a creator to contact or any other information to go by--I can't really touch the character. It's not as though he's up for grabs.

----------


## DanMad1977

Erik, i read somewhere at Facebook (i believe) that you are struggling with putting out an Ant book. I can imagine how tough it is to draw two books at once. 

Dont you think it would be a great idea to let someone else handle the art, and you do the writing? Maybe starting with a pilot project, a mini series or something? 

So, you can concentrate on SD. But i bet you already thought about that...

----------


## KROENEN

> Without a creator to contact or any other information to go by--I can't really touch the character. It's not as though he's up for grabs.


I wasn't suggesting that, just saying that Jimbo will live on in our hearts and minds.   :Wink:

----------


## Erik Larsen

> Erik, i read somewhere at Facebook (i believe) that you are struggling with putting out an Ant book. I can imagine how tough it is to draw two books at once. 
> 
> Dont you think it would be a great idea to let someone else handle the art, and you do the writing? Maybe starting with a pilot project, a mini series or something? 
> 
> So, you can concentrate on SD. But i bet you already thought about that...


Short answer: No.

Longer answer: I want to do the book and having somebody else do it means paying other people money which I can't guarantee the book will earn. If the sales aren't amazing--the nut isn't covered and I'm essentially flushing money down the crapper.

----------


## DanMad1977

Thanks for the answer. 

Its what i already guessed. I know its not about me, but i would rather see an Ant book drawn by someone else then no Ant book at all. 

With that being said, the most important thing is that SD continues.

----------


## icctrombone

I guess if Erik wanted to, he could draw a short 8 pager of Ant and place it in the regular Savage Dragon book.

----------


## Erik Larsen

> I guess if Erik wanted to, he could draw a short 8 pager of Ant and place it in the regular Savage Dragon book.


Yeah--but everything comes with a price tag. If I'm getting pages lettered and colored--that money has to come from somewhere. It's not as though the book suddenly generates more money when there's a backup and if I'm drawing more pages in Savage Dragon that means more time and, again, that doesn't materialize. When the Savage Dragon miniseries was launched in 1992 I added all kinds of pages and while that was great--every hour spent on this issue meant the next was that much later and it was later. In retrospect, I would have been better off doing a set number of pages every month and staying on a more regular schedule. 

If I have time to draw eight pages of Ant, I'll bank those and wait until I have 20 pages so I can put out an issue.

----------


## icctrombone

> Yeah--but everything comes with a price tag. If I'm getting pages lettered and colored--that money has to come from somewhere. It's not as though the book suddenly generates more money when there's a backup and if I'm drawing more pages in Savage Dragon that means more time and, again, that doesn't materialize. When the Savage Dragon miniseries was launched in 1992 I added all kinds of pages and while that was great--every hour spent on this issue meant the next was that much later and it was later. In retrospect, I would have been better off doing a set number of pages every month and staying on a more regular schedule. 
> 
> If I have time to draw eight pages of Ant, I'll bank those and wait until I have 20 pages so I can put out an issue.


I appreciate the insights that you provide. There were some things in twitter that you posted about the younger creators suddenly making so much money in the beginning of Image Comics, that they took off after getting the huge paychecks.  That was very illuminating.

----------


## JFP

> I appreciate the insights that you provide. There were some things in twitter that you posted about the younger creators suddenly making so much money in the beginning of Image Comics, that they took off after getting the huge paychecks.  That was very illuminating.


Yeah, for many illustrators, work is basically like going to the casino. They come and go as they please and are there for a quick buck.

Even if money wasn't a problem, if Erik hired someone else to draw Ant and he write, there is no guarantee the artists will be reliable. The artist might end up leaving at the worst possible time. Then he's gotta go around searching for another artist and delay the book. Then fans would be disappointed, saying, "Why did you relaunch the book only for there to be endless delays?"

----------


## AmiMizuno

With Netflix being on the back of the issues. I wonder how long it would take until the announcement for the tv series

----------


## AmiMizuno

> Short answer: No.
> 
> Longer answer: I want to do the book and having somebody else do it means paying other people money which I can't guarantee the book will earn. If the sales aren't amazing--the nut isn't covered and I'm essentially flushing money down the crapper.


Maybe start a kickstarter then a patreon

----------


## dishpan

Erik, I thought about you a lot while watching Spider-verse. The obvious bit is the prominent use of a page from your run right near the start. But the film also has large sections where completely different kinds of art coexist -- including 2D and hand drawn and cartoony and black & white. Since I read your letters column every issue of TSD (reed not red) I remember that being a goal of yours, when Dragon comics would have some characters interacting in the same panel and you would mix your famous style with some fun newspaper strip style people and faces. I saw on Facebook that you enjoyed this movie, did that aspect of it play into this for you at all? I'd be curious to read any thoughts you might have on it. Thanks! Dan

----------


## bob.schoonover

Sorry if this has come up before, but is there any chance Savage Dragon will get collected in Compendium editions like Invincible or Walking Dead?  I'd buy those in a heartbeat . . .

----------


## K7P5V

> Sorry if this has come up before, but is there any chance Savage Dragon will get collected in Compendium editions like Invincible or Walking Dead?  I'd buy those in a heartbeat . . .


Me too. I would *love* Compendium Editions of the Savage Dragon. I still own the twin set of Witchblade Compendiums from a few years ago.

----------


## icctrombone

It might not be financially feasible for Erik to publish them.

----------


## OceanMachine

> It might not be financially feasible for Erik to publish them.


Part of that is that I understand there is an issue with some early issues in that no usable file (or w/e it's called) of the colored versions exist. So they would have to be recolored, which is a significant extra cost.

And then the question is, how many will likely sell. A big chunk of the series is already available in color through smaller collected trades -- many fans (especially long-time fans) that want to collect trades will have gone that route. For those looking for a more budget-friendly version, or one that will catch them up quick, the SD Archives run is the ticket. Even though it's in black and white, a lot of more casual fans or fans on a budget may already have those. 

So not only would a compendium run be pricey to make, but who would be the audience buying it? By my reckoning, it's those people who are such huge fans that they just need to have everything SD, and those who are just coming to the series fresh and want to start their collection. And for some from the latter group, a large (semi?)-expensive compendium style might even be off-putting rather than helpful, because it's intimidating to buy in so much if you're not sure you're going to like the series or not. That's why vol.1s of Image series collections are often to be found at a _very_ reasonable price point. Sure, it's because they can generally rely on selling a decent number of vol.1's, but also because they want to encourage people to try by making it a modest investment.

And don't forget -- despite the large size of compendium editions, there would still need to be several volumes to account for the full run of SD. If they were roughly the size of the Invincible Compendiums for example, that's 5-ish big books to catch up to where SD is at the moment. So a big investment in production, for an uncertain return. Yeah, it could attract some renewed buyer interest but maybe not. I remember reading a post from EL a while back that many of his collected trades take a while before they even break even on production costs. And that's on the first run -- never mind on subsequent collections where many fans already own the material in one form or another.

EDIT: Plus, the economy.

----------


## icctrombone

> Part of that is that I understand there is an issue with some early issues in that no usable file (or w/e it's called) of the colored versions exist. So they would have to be recolored, which is a significant extra cost.
> 
> And then the question is, how many will likely sell. A big chunk of the series is already available in color through smaller collected trades -- many fans (especially long-time fans) that want to collect trades will have gone that route. For those looking for a more budget-friendly version, or one that will catch them up quick, the SD Archives run is the ticket. Even though it's in black and white, a lot of more casual fans or fans on a budget may already have those. 
> 
> So not only would a compendium run be pricey to make, but who would be the audience buying it? By my reckoning, it's those people who are such huge fans that they just need to have everything SD, and those who are just coming to the series fresh and want to start their collection. And for some from the latter group, a large (semi?)-expensive compendium style might even be off-putting rather than helpful, because it's intimidating to buy in so much if you're not sure you're going to like the series or not. That's why vol.1s of Image series collections are often to be found at a _very_ reasonable price point. Sure, it's because they can generally rely on selling a decent number of vol.1's, but also because they want to encourage people to try by making it a modest investment.
> 
> And don't forget -- despite the large size of compendium editions, there would still need to be several volumes to account for the full run of SD. If they were roughly the size of the Invincible Compendiums for example, that's 5-ish big books to catch up to where SD is at the moment. So a big investment in production, for an uncertain return. Yeah, it could attract some renewed buyer interest but maybe not. I remember reading a post from EL a while back that many of his collected trades take a while before they even break even on production costs. And that's on the first run -- never mind on subsequent collections where many fans already own the material in one form or another.
> 
> EDIT: Plus, the economy.


Erik already explained in a previous post that everything he does comes with a price. He doesn't have a big bad company to cover all the costs of this venture, he has to pay for everything out of his pocket. It's no good for him to gamble on a possible low selling collection.

----------


## JFP

> Erik already explained in a previous post that everything he does comes with a price. He doesn't have a big bad company to cover all the costs of this venture, he has to pay for everything out of his pocket. It's no good for him to gamble on a possible low selling collection.


Marketing it at stores would be a prob. My local shop basically sells comics and merch for the big 2. At least 4/5th of the product space is dedicated to the Big 2. A compendium aimed at new readers would not get decent product placement at my local shop. I imagine it's the same at most comic shops. The only other store in my area for comics is Barnes and Noble. But they mainly do watered down/mainstream stuff that's gonna sell tremendously. They don't take chances on indie stuff. So the problem on Erik's end would be getting retailers on the ball.

This is also a problem that Ant would face if resurrected. I highly doubt Barnes and Noble would sell Ant trades. And the local shops would have poor placement.

----------


## Cmbmool

> Erik already explained in a previous post that everything he does comes with a price. He doesn't have a big bad company to cover all the costs of this venture, he has to pay for everything out of his pocket. It's no good for him to gamble on a possible low selling collection.


Say what you want about the BIG 2, but at least they cover the cost when it comes to collecting the adventures of the hero in a specific storyline.

When it comes to Savage Dragon Collections, especially the BIG collections  of past issues are few and in-between.

----------


## icctrombone

> Say what you want about the BIG 2, but at least they cover the cost when it comes to collecting the adventures of the hero in a specific storyline.
> 
> When it comes to Savage Dragon Collections, especially the BIG collections  of past issues are few and in-between.


Yes , but the big two probably take 99% of the profits.

----------


## Erik Larsen

> Erik already explained in a previous post that everything he does comes with a price. He doesn't have a big bad company to cover all the costs of this venture, he has to pay for everything out of his pocket. It's no good for him to gamble on a possible low selling collection.


That's not exactly how that works. For trades--I'm not actually cutting anybody a check--Image does that. It's just that the books may be in the red for quite some time. Creators don't cut Image checks. Image publishes books and they get reimbursed for their costs before creators get their cut. With comics--sales are high enough that Image is cutting creators a check immediately--with trades--it can take a while. 

At the same time--if I'm saying, "Hey--let's publish 20 hardcover books collecting everything that's come out thus far"--that might not be a reasonable request. There are limits to how much Image would gamble on something like that (and that goes for every company--it's not as though DC has every issue of Superman or Batman in print or Marvel has every issue of Spider-Man in print--that's a LOT of books to keep in print and stores aren't likely to order that many books at one time and most fans wouldn't take out a loan to pay for them).

----------


## Erik Larsen

> Say what you want about the BIG 2, but at least they cover the cost when it comes to collecting the adventures of the hero in a specific storyline.
> 
> When it comes to Savage Dragon Collections, especially the BIG collections  of past issues are few and in-between.


There are over 20 Savage Dragon trades in print right now. I don't see any company making available the last 243 issues of any series in print.

----------


## boltmonster

When it comes to tpbs, the ones that have been the best for me are the Savage Dragon Archives Volumes One - Three. They collect the three-issue mini-series and issues 1-75 of the regular series. They are the best of your work for the Dragon.

I had gotten issue 240 and was highly disappointed.

----------


## Cmbmool

> There are over 20 Savage Dragon trades in print right now. I don't see any company making available the last 243 issues of any series in print.


Batman and Superman of DC comics maybe ?

----------


## Captain Craig

The premium hardcovers are indeed for a niche group I suppose. Probably more soft cover tpb are bought by more retailers and consumers.
That said, I prefer a nice oversized HC book. I bought the first 4 Spawn Origins Deluxe HC and that stalled out some years ago.

If Savage Dragon was done I'd buy something similar. An OHC that collects say 25-30 issues at a pop for $75/100usd.

----------


## Erik Larsen

> Batman and Superman of DC comics maybe ?


Not really. It's scattershot--hit and miss with huge gaps.

----------


## icctrombone

It doesn't have to be collected, I have them collected in two large boxes. :Wink:

----------


## danelway

Just came back to the fold, collected the first 100 issues back in the day. Started reading again and I'm in the process of catching up. 
Only need 94 more issues to catch up.

----------


## Dark-Flux

I just binged the last years worth of issues to catch up, and maaan, i'm digging the book a lot right now. Ever since Malcolm became the lead and they upped sticks to Canada the book has reminded me a lot of the earlier days, and i like the more slice-of-life dynamic. Dem kids are growing up so fast...

----------


## danelway

Between trades and single issues , I only need another 32 issues to complete the run.
Not easy to find , but that's the fun of it. Loving the story so far.

----------


## Toxin45

Read the issues Sad that the original Dragon died but happy that Malcolm Took over. You know I honestly expected the series to end after a while but dang Erik manages to keep things interesting keep up the Good work.

----------


## CliffHanger2

Really liked 244 a lot of stuff going on but glad it went the streamlined route and nothing was lost. In fact I think it packed more of a punch that way no pun intended(lying)lol. But yeah I like the idea of a comic character talking about their own comic as a separate thing. Malcolm and Maxine talking to the comic committee was funny. "Modern readers hate captions" lol. "We need to pad issues for the trade market." Brilliant stuff.   Glad you didn't go that route and kept it compressed.  The set up for the fight with Powerhouse and execution was great too. 

 Great action and character development all without having to do a 6 issue story arc  lol. Like what you've done with Ant too btw good stuff Man.

----------


## danelway

We finally got the next issue and it was worth the wait as usual. The 12 panel grids looked quite challenging, and all those chains.
We appreciate the hard work you put in Erik.

----------


## Captain Craig

> Originally Posted by Cmbmool
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Erik Larsen
> ...


I'm thinking this is about current and active run, of which SD is so in that regard Erik is right.
However, one could pick up the Golden Age Omni's of Batman or Superman right now and essentially have nearly 20yrs worth of consecutive material. Batman has vol.8 solicited(should go 9volumes for each) and Superman vol. 7 is also coming.

----------


## shooshoomanjoe

Is the golden age Daredevil that Larsen brought to Savage Dragon the same as Lev Gleason's? As in, does the Lev Gleason Daredevil share the same continuity with Savage Dragon.

----------


## DanMad1977

> Is the golden age Daredevil that Larsen brought to Savage Dragon the same as Lev Gleason's? As in, does the Lev Gleason Daredevil share the same continuity with Savage Dragon.


And is it the same Daredevil, or now called the death defying devil as in Project Superpowers?

----------


## Dark-Flux

> And is it the same Daredevil, or now called the death defying devil as in Project Superpowers?


Its the same character but not necessarily the same continuity given that he's in public domain any anybody can do what they want with him. (Other than use the title.)

----------


## DanMad1977

> Its the same character but not necessarily the same continuity given that he's in public domain any anybody can do what they want with him. (Other than use the title.)


Thats what I thought. Thanks

----------


## Erik Larsen

> And is it the same Daredevil, or now called the death defying devil as in Project Superpowers?


Dynamite's character is a renamed, reimagined version of the Golden Age character--he has a different identity--he's not the original. I use the Golden Age character as written--no name change--no new identity--the original. Dynamite made a few changes so that there was something they could call theirs. 

In Daredevil's first appearance back in the Golden Age, as created by Jack Binder, Daredevil was mute, his costume was black and yellow, and he had two D's on his belly. With his second appearance, Jack Cole (creator of Plastic Man) gave Daredevil his traditional red and black costume and he had him talking. That was the version which lasted until his final appearance and that was where I picked things up.

----------


## DanMad1977

Thanks for the comic book history lesson  :Big Grin:

----------


## fin5

I know i did this before but im curies as to anything Larsen can tell us about Savage Dragon 250

----------


## DanMad1977

> I know i did this before but im curies as to anything Larsen can tell us about Savage Dragon 250


If he tells you, that no one dies in 250, then he will end the book before the anniversary issue  :Wink:

----------


## Toxin45

Man looking back on the series we had four big bads the overlord,damien darklord,cyberface,and emperor kurr as the main villains so far.

----------


## K7P5V

> Man looking back on the series we had four big bads the overlord,damien darklord,cyberface,and emperor kurr as the main villains so far.


Does Mr. Glum not count?

----------


## Toxin45

> Does Mr. Glum not count?


Apparently not it seems at least from what I have heard.

----------


## fin5

When Does the next issue of Savage Dragon come out. 245 came out a few months ago

----------


## Toxin45

> When Does the next issue of Savage Dragon come out. 245 came out a few months ago


On October 23.

----------


## Toxin45

Well I saw the preview for issue 249 has anyone else saw it?

----------


## Toxin45

Also how many spin-offs did Savage Dragon have again?

----------


## Toxin45

Well rip the scourge

----------


## DanMad1977

Damn, he was a cool character. Sad he had to go so early...

----------


## Erik Larsen

> Also how many spin-offs did Savage Dragon have again?


Just one ongoing title (Freak Force), though there were several miniseries and one shots spotlighting individual characters (SuperPatriot, Vanguard, Star, Mighty Man, Dart, Deadly Duo, etc.).

----------


## Toxin45

> Just one ongoing title (Freak Force), though there were several miniseries and one shots spotlighting individual characters (SuperPatriot, Vanguard, Star, Mighty Man, Dart, Deadly Duo, etc.).


Oh okay thanks

----------


## Nero

Hello Mr. Larsen. Big fan of your work going back to your tenure on Amazing Spider-Man to Savage Dragon. I have two questions.

1. What was your inspiration in creating Overlord?
2. Which Savage Dragon villain is your favorite?

----------


## Toxin45

Huh it’s awfully quiet here

----------


## armlessphelan

> Huh it’s awfully quiet here


The Image board in general is quiet these days. I usually only see activity during the days following a new issue, unless it's the Spawn thread.

----------


## Toxin45

Well I did read the latest issues of Savage Dragon.

----------


## DanMad1977

Yeah, its always this quiet. Only thing going strong is the Marvel/DC section. I don't know why...

Recently I saw the cover to SD 250...there is a Harkenkreuz on it. My question for Erik, or someone who knows: Is there an alternate cover, because I wouldn't get it to Germany with the Harkenkreuz. It's forbidden...last time that happened I had to go to America to buy that issue and smuggled it over the borders

----------


## Erik Larsen

> Yeah, its always this quiet. Only thing going strong is the Marvel/DC section. I don't know why...
> 
> Recently I saw the cover to SD 250...there is a Harkenkreuz on it. My question for Erik, or someone who knows: Is there an alternate cover, because I wouldn't get it to Germany with the Harkenkreuz. It's forbidden...last time that happened I had to go to America to buy that issue and smuggled it over the borders


I'm not sure what you're looking at but there's no Harkenkreuz on Savage Dragon #250.

----------


## Erik Larsen

> 1. What was your inspiration in creating Overlord?


I created him as a kid as a kind of evil Iron Man (at that point he was called the Bronze Man) and I just kept changing and updating him until he wasn't that quite so much. 


> 2. Which Savage Dragon villain is your favorite?


I don't really have one--though Mr. Glum is the most fun to draw.

----------


## DanMad1977

> I'm not sure what you're looking at but there's no Harkenkreuz on Savage Dragon #250.


I have seen it on facebook...but I looked it up, it was the cover to 200. Someone postet it on your facebook site. False alarm. I am glad, not that I am offended if there is a Hakenkreuz, but its a hassle to get the book then...

I am looking forward to that issue...

----------


## Erik Larsen

> I have seen it on facebook...but I looked it up, it was the cover to 200. Someone postet it on your facebook site. False alarm. I am glad, not that I am offended if there is a Hakenkreuz, but its a hassle to get the book then...


That issue had a couple different covers. There's definitely one without it.

----------


## fin5

Whats going on with Savage Dragon it seems like the last issue came months ago

----------


## armlessphelan

> Whats going on with Savage Dragon it seems like the last issue came months ago


Probably delayed due to Erik's Marvel stuff.

----------


## Erik Larsen

> Whats going on with Savage Dragon it seems like the last issue came months ago


I've been sidetracked from a bunch of things that needed to be done for Savage Dragon #250 (as well as Captain America: The End). I thought it'd be better to have a short break before this three part story (#248-250) started than in the middle of it.

----------


## Sparko

Mr. Larsen, will we ever get some kind of Savage Dragon compendium? Even if just digital only, it would be awesome. I would love to catch up on all things SD, but it’s not easy to get these books. And I’m gonna be honest with you, the last Savage Dragon I read was issue 1, when it came out!! I lost touch with comics for a long time after that...

----------


## armlessphelan

> Mr. Larsen, will we ever get some kind of Savage Dragon compendium? Even if just digital only, it would be awesome. I would love to catch up on all things SD, but it’s not easy to get these books. And I’m gonna be honest with you, the last Savage Dragon I read was issue 1, when it came out!! I lost touch with comics for a long time after that...


There are the Savage Dragon archives! Black and white collections of twenty five or so issues. And they're available on Comixology. https://www.comixology.com/Savage-Dr...9pdGVtU2xpZGVy

----------


## Sparko

> There are the Savage Dragon archives! Black and white collections of twenty five or so issues. And they're available on Comixology. https://www.comixology.com/Savage-Dr...9pdGVtU2xpZGVy


Thanks! I should have noted I’ve seen these. What I’m looking for is full color. One day maybe!

----------


## fin5

Mister Larsen can you tell us when the next savage dragon will ship

----------


## Erik Larsen

> Mister Larsen can you tell us when the next savage dragon will ship


I think it's on sale April 1st.

----------


## dimo1

Very nice interview with Savage Dragon creator Erik Larsen by the Kayfabers.
Go check it out.

----------


## fin5

The new issue came out.I ordered it

----------


## sarasteve

i want to see Erik draw Dragon  :Frown:

----------


## Erik Larsen

> i want to see Erik draw Dragon


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjvpBRPCWGs&t=1s

----------


## armlessphelan

Finally got caught up with Malcolm and friends, and that cliffhanger was crazy!

----------


## icctrombone

I had to buy # 250 on ebay. Waiting for it to arrive this week.

----------


## icctrombone

Today  I happened to visit a Comic shop that I frequent from time to time in New Jersey. The last 4 times I was there I asked for SD # 250 and each time he told me it hadn't come in . Well, today I went there and he had the book.  Although I had already bought it on ebay, I felt bad about him finally getting and holding it for me so I bought it from him . The other copy arrived today in the mail and now I own two copies. At least it's two different cover artists.

----------


## K7P5V

> Today  I happened to visit a Comic shop that I frequent from time to time in New Jersey. The last 4 times I was there I asked for SD # 250 and each time he told me it hadn't come in . Well, today I went there and he had the book.  Although I had already bought it on ebay, I felt bad about him finally getting and holding it for me so I bought from him . The other copy arrived today on the mail and now I own two copies. At least it's two different cover artists.


Great story, _icctrombone_. You're so lucky. And getting two copies with different artwork for the covers is a definite bonus, IMHO.

----------


## fin5

Mr.Larson Was the story of Savage Dragon 250 changed from the story you wanted to do because of covid 19

----------


## Erik Larsen

> Mr. Larsen Was the story of Savage Dragon 250 changed from the story you wanted to do because of covid 19


Absolutely but the final page would have been the same regardless.

----------


## scilover

I never read this comic but it seem very interesting. Where can I possibly buy it?

----------


## armlessphelan

> I never read this comic but it seem very interesting. Where can I possibly buy it?


Single issues will be harder to find, but you can get the black and white archives on Amazon and Comixology has the entire run if you don't mind digital.

----------


## BigLbo

is Mako coming back?

----------


## DanMad1977

> is Mako coming back?


Seems so...

----------


## CliffHanger2

Shocked to see how Dart went out kinda sudden. Malcolm may come back with amnesia and his kid is like "do I still have to got to school tomorrow?" Ha.

----------


## BigLbo

so i'm trying to collect all mako appearances and today i happened upon an Image Comics TMNT #4 and to my delight discovered Mako was in that book.  anybody know what other TMNT books from that run feature him??

----------


## K7P5V

> so i'm trying to collect all mako appearances and today i happened upon an Image Comics TMNT #4 and to my delight discovered Mako was in that book.  anybody know what other TMNT books from that run feature him??


According to this comic book wiki-website, *Mako* made three other appearances (_Image Comics' TMNT #2; #3; #5_):

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/mako/.../issues-cover/

----------


## icctrombone

Got these in the mail. I have no LCS that I deal with so I buy them on eBay.

----------


## shooshoomanjoe

> Got these in the mail. I have no LCS that I deal with so I buy them on eBay.


I get mine from Discount Comic Book Service. I have several LCS near me but this online shop gives their customers 30-40% off. Rarely you'll even see 50-60% off.

----------


## BigLbo

> According to this comic book wiki-website, *Mako* made three other appearances (_Image Comics' TMNT #2; #3; #5_):
> 
> https://comicvine.gamespot.com/mako/.../issues-cover/


thank you very much.

----------


## K7P5V

> thank you very much.


You're welcome, _BigLbo_.  :Big Grin: 

I always try to keep up, since I'm also a fan of TMNT (still have a soft spot for the Image version, though):

----------


## shooshoomanjoe

Does the Image version of TMNT take place in the same universe as Savage Dragon?

----------


## armlessphelan

> Does the Image version of TMNT take place in the same universe as Savage Dragon?


Yes! Even has Dragon appearing a few times. I was happily surprised when he showed up in the IDW release as I'd never read the series during its original run.

----------


## K7P5V

> Originally Posted by shooshoomanjoe
> 
> 
> Does the Image version of TMNT take place in the same universe as Savage Dragon?
> 
> 
> Yes! Even has Dragon appearing a few times. I was happily surprised when he showed up in the IDW release as I'd never read the series during its original run.


Correct! And here's proof...

----------


## BigLbo

recently found a copy of Savage Dragon vs Marshal Law part 2 of 2,  anybody have any thoughts on the series??  Marshal Law is still pretty new to me,  i've only read a few comics.

----------


## K7P5V

> recently found a copy of Savage Dragon vs Marshal Law part 2 of 2,  anybody have any thoughts on the series??  Marshal Law is still pretty new to me,  i've only read a few comics.


If at all possible, definitely track down PART 1 of this series. Highly recommended (IMHO):

----------


## BigLbo

> If at all possible, definitely track down PART 1 of this series. Highly recommended (IMHO):


i'm definitely on the look out for it, seems pretty affordable. does Mako make an appearance in either issue by chance??

----------


## K7P5V

> i'm definitely on the look out for it, seems pretty affordable. does Mako make an appearance in either issue by chance??


Yeah, Mako appears in the first issue...

*spoilers:*
...as a murder victim.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## BigLbo

> Yeah, Mako appears in the first issue...
> 
> *spoilers:*
> ...as a murder victim.
> *end of spoilers*


awesome,  got to get it now.

----------


## BigLbo

so i browsed the latest issue and it appears Malcom launches a woman into the ceiling with his ejaculation.  i literally LOLed.

----------


## CliffHanger2

> so i browsed the latest issue and it appears Malcom launches a woman into the ceiling with his ejaculation.  i literally LOLed.


 lol. I think he did that in a previous issue or something like it-can't remember which one tho. Good to see Malcolm still remembers his kids.

----------


## SavageJudgeDredd

I'd just like to say, this comic is the best, and Erik is the coolest dude in comics!

SD #360 should have a 360 degree foldout, like a burger king crown type of tech. Food for thought.

----------


## DanMad1977

So what is happening with North Force? Is North Force 0 the same as SD 259? Just a repackaging of some sort? I don't get it...can someone explain? Is it an ongoing? A one shot?

----------


## Stars & Stripes

> So what is happening with North Force? Is North Force 0 the same as SD 259? Just a repackaging of some sort? I don't get it...can someone explain? Is it an ongoing? A one shot?


From what I understand, theyre rejiggering 259 into a pilot for the North Force (those Canadian heroes led by the Captain Canada looking guy... have they been named?), hence why its a #0. They might do a different Savage Dragon 259 to go with it.

----------


## Uncanny X-Man

Anything that attracts more readers to Savage Dragon comics is always good.

----------


## Will Evans

Does Maxine seem off to you guys?

I know she’s a nympho, but it’s gotten to a point where she feels up her own mother and brother-in-law and implies she would do a threesome with them.

I’m surprised it hasn’t happened yet.

Not to mention she was literally raped to death before.


Surely this has to be addressed eventually?

----------


## K7P5V

> Anything that attracts more readers to Savage Dragon comics is always good.


Agreed, especially all those inter-company crossovers (which I would like to see brought back someday):

*TMNT/Savage Dragon*





*Hellboy/Savage Dragon*





*Superman/Savage Dragon*

----------


## DanMad1977

> From what I understand, they’re rejiggering 259 into a “pilot” for the North Force (those Canadian heroes led by the Captain Canada looking guy... have they been named?), hence why it’s a #0. They might do a different Savage Dragon 259 to go with it.


Good, so I have to order both.

----------


## Stars & Stripes

It’s kinda neat that the Canadian heroes are all designed and named after sports teams that play in Canada.

----------


## Uncanny X-Man

This book is so good, month in, month out. Loved the last issue and the fight with Thor. Also hope Paul Dragon is able to regrow his arm eventually, the poor thing.

----------


## K7P5V

Regrowing limbs runs in the family  :Wink:

----------


## Uncanny X-Man

Well only if you have your own healing factor I guess!

----------


## CliffHanger2

It'd be interesting if Malcolm ends up getting his hands on Evil Thor's hammer. Wonder how he's gonna get out of this one.

----------


## Will Evans

Is this a set up for Malcolm to join North Force?

----------


## Uncanny X-Man

> Is this a set up for Malcolm to join North Force?


I wouldn't mind that. I loved it when Freak Force and the SoS were part of the regular supporting cast of the book.

----------


## Uncanny X-Man

SAVAGE DRAGON #261
WRITER / ARTIST / COVER: ERIK LARSEN
COVER A STANDARD IMAGE TRADE DRESS
COVER B RETRO '70s TRADE DRESS

JUNE 16 / 32 PAGES / FC / M / $3.99

"INTO THE HORNET'S NEST!"
Double the Dragons! Double the action! Malcolm Dragon teams up with Paul Dragon, his father from another reality now equipped with a cyborg arm to take down the Vicious Circle once and for all.

Rest of the Image Comics solicits: https://bleedingcool.com/comics/full...for-june-2021/

----------


## Will Evans

> Does Maxine seem off to you guys?
> 
> I know shes a nympho, but its gotten to a point where she feels up her own mother and brother-in-law and implies she would do a threesome with them.
> 
> Im surprised it hasnt happened yet.
> 
> Not to mention she was literally raped to death before.
> 
> 
> Surely this has to be addressed eventually?


No responses about Malcolms wife?

----------


## Uncanny X-Man

> No responses about Malcolm’s wife?


Wasn't it established she had a post-death experience whereby she ended up in heaven which in her case was a neverending orgasm basically, and upon coming back to life she's been craving the same kind of bliss?

----------


## K7P5V

> I wouldn't mind that. I loved it when Freak Force and the SoS were part of the regular supporting cast of the book.


To the utmost, I agree. Those were good times (IMHO):

----------


## shooshoomanjoe

> SAVAGE DRAGON #261
> WRITER / ARTIST / COVER: ERIK LARSEN
> COVER A STANDARD IMAGE TRADE DRESS
> COVER B RETRO '70s TRADE DRESS
> 
> JUNE 16 / 32 PAGES / FC / M / $3.99
> 
> "INTO THE HORNET'S NEST!"
> Double the Dragons! Double the action! Malcolm Dragon teams up with Paul Dragon, his father from another reality now equipped with a cyborg arm to take down the Vicious Circle once and for all.
> ...


Is Paul Dragon the original Savage Dragon that Larsen created in his teens?

----------


## Uncanny X-Man

> Is Paul Dragon the original Savage Dragon that Larsen created in his teens?


I seem to remember Larsen had a few different origins he came up with for Dragon during his teens and the Paul one was one of them. Definitely predated the Dragon we saw from 1992 though.

----------


## icctrombone

Today I scored this gem in a trade. Megaton # 2 - first appearance of Savage Dragon. 



A friend of mine is running a challenge where he is trading books that he found in dollar bins to ultimately get a golden age key book. All the info is here. That's where I got this book.

----------


## K7P5V

The Savage Dragon makes a cameo appearance in _Crossover #6_  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## armlessphelan

Anyone else read the latest Savage Dragon/North Force? I don't really see why these were released as two separate issues outside of the backup material.

----------


## BigLbo

pumped for the upcoming Mako appearance in 263.

----------


## CliffHanger2

Got the new Ant 12. Do think Ant needs to be a little thicker.

----------


## armlessphelan

> Got the new Ant 12. Do think Ant needs to be a little thicker.


I also read Ant. Went in pretty much blind. (I read the first trade ages ago, but remember none of it.) Very excited for the next series but I wonder if Erik is going to write AND draw two series at once or if he's gonna farm out the art duties. At least Ant is solidly in the broader Highbrow/Image universe.

----------


## CliffHanger2

> I also read Ant. Went in pretty much blind. (I read the first trade ages ago, but remember none of it.) Very excited for the next series but I wonder if Erik is going to write AND draw two series at once or if he's gonna farm out the art duties. At least Ant is solidly in the broader Highbrow/Image universe.


 Yeah it'd be good if he could find a dependable artist or writer but I guess that's hard these days. It's gotta be hard pulling double duty with art and writing on 2 series. 
Read the new Dragon too. Everyone on NF powers are clear except Blue Jay. Does she just fly around and look good?lol. If Malcolm has a type I could see him slipping into her dms. That's if she makes it back from Tootsie's ill concieved mission. i don't think NF thought that out too well lol.

----------


## Uncanny X-Man

> I also read Ant. Went in pretty much blind. (I read the first trade ages ago, but remember none of it.) Very excited for the next series but I wonder if Erik is going to write AND draw two series at once or if he's gonna farm out the art duties. At least Ant is solidly in the broader Highbrow/Image universe.


I quite enjoyed Ant even though I wasn't even remotely familiar with her book and only knew of the character via her previous guest-appearances. I'm very much looking forward to vol. 2 now though and it will be interesting to see if Larsen will be able to write and draw 2 books at the same time or if he's going to find another artist for Ant down the line.

----------


## matt levin

I read Ant 12, after re-reading the Arcana series, and the first half-dozen Image issues, plus a later issue (#8), in preparation for the new #12.   I really liked the Arcana series, enough to pick up the first Image series as it came out, but found it disappointing in that it was no longer the story of a little girl's life, and had become more a standard, if unusual superhero story, and then, more and more standard.  And that's how I feel about the new issue.  (And yes, Cliffhanger2, Ant should've been much thicker-- she looks kind of anorexic to me (although, admittedly, somewhat more ant-like)).  I feel as though her personality has been lost, and while I read, and understand Larson's essay at the end, I still would prefer little Hannah and her dreams to the new approach.

----------


## CliffHanger2

> I read Ant 12, after re-reading the Arcana series, and the first half-dozen Image issues, plus a later issue (#8), in preparation for the new #12.   I really liked the Arcana series, enough to pick up the first Image series as it came out, but found it disappointing in that it was no longer the story of a little girl's life, and had become more a standard, if unusual superhero story, and then, more and more standard.  And that's how I feel about the new issue.  (And yes, Cliffhanger2, Ant should've been much thicker-- she looks kind of anorexic to me (although, admittedly, somewhat more ant-like)).  I feel as though her personality has been lost, and while I read, and understand Larson's essay at the end, I still would prefer little Hannah and her dreams to the new approach.


 Yeah I know his style leans more towards the thinner girls. But even in previous issues where she teamed up with Dragon she was drawn thicker than what's in issue 12.  At he end I was like "Is that Ant in those jeans?Whaaaa???"LOL.  Maybe it's the strain of drawing 2 books at once. But interested to see where this all goes with new villains and such.

----------


## BigLbo

the Invincible series success makes me dream of a Savage Dragon animated series in the same vein.

----------


## SavageJudgeDredd

Ant looks good, I haven't checked it out yet. Did buy it on comixology (love the backup download option! Wish everybody did that). I usually bank two or three issues before reading comics.

I'm actually 6 issues behind on SD right now, but I'm catching up! I loved 253, lot of fun. Walter is so cool. And the Savage Fincast rules.

----------


## CliffHanger2

Ha it'd be cool if Frank Cho could draw an issue of Ant.

----------


## DanMad1977

Just read North Force 0 and ask myself where the adventure continues? In its own series or SD? 

I can't believe Erik will put out NF, SD and Ant at the same time. I mean he would write and draw all three, right?

----------


## fin5

I got 259 of Savage Dragon. Did any new Savage Dragon come out.It feels like a long time since 259

----------


## SavageJudgeDredd

> Just read North Force 0 and ask myself where the adventure continues? In its own series or SD? 
> 
> I can't believe Erik will put out NF, SD and Ant at the same time. I mean he would write and draw all three, right?


North Force continues in Savage Dragon, that was an alternate titled version of that month's Savage Dragon 259 for fun. With added profiles for the characters I hear, I just have the Savage Dragon version (with the similar cover art).




> I got 259 of Savage Dragon. Did any new Savage Dragon come out.It feels like a long time since 259


Looks like it may come out August 11th, at least that's a date on comixology. Not out quite yet, I also have mine pre-ordered at TFAW and it's not there yet. There will be Dragon though, oh yes!

----------


## Erik Larsen

> I read Ant 12, after re-reading the Arcana series, and the first half-dozen Image issues, plus a later issue (#8), in preparation for the new #12.   I really liked the Arcana series, enough to pick up the first Image series as it came out, but found it disappointing in that it was no longer the story of a little girl's life, and had become more a standard, if unusual superhero story, and then, more and more standard.  And that's how I feel about the new issue.  (And yes, Cliffhanger2, Ant should've been much thicker-- she looks kind of anorexic to me (although, admittedly, somewhat more ant-like)).  I feel as though her personality has been lost, and while I read, and understand Larson's essay at the end, I still would prefer little Hannah and her dreams to the new approach.


It stopped being "the story of a little girl's life" with the 4th issue from Arcana. It hasn't been the story of a little girl's life since 2005.

----------


## shooshoomanjoe

> The Savage Dragon makes a cameo appearance in _Crossover #6_


Looks like dragon is onboard the synthol train.

----------


## Blanks

Not Dragon related, but kinda? I picked up ANT issue 12 the other day. I hadn’t been to my local comic shop in about 2 months so I had a lot of stuff to catch up on and clear up my pull box (I discovered a lot of black mold between three walls in my home thanks to a water leak from the heavy rain, so my comic collecting got pushed aside the past 2-3 months…). Got two copies of ANT issue 12. I’m gonna have to pull my issues of Spawn and Savage Dragon out again and re-read her appearance in those issues.

----------


## fin5

Whats going on with Savage Dragon I seems forever the Savage  dragon came out 259 was the last one

----------


## panguar

260 came out in September.

----------


## TheFallen

Mr. Larson, is there any chance of working with McFarlane Toys for a new figure of Savage Dragon for the 30th Anniversary?

----------


## Shadowras

Just read Ant#1 on comixology, that was the most fun superhero comic I've read in awhile, cant wait for #2 to come out.

----------


## DanMad1977

> Just read Ant#1 on comixology, that was the most fun superhero comic I've read in awhile, cant wait for #2 to come out.


I hope I get my hands on it next month when its gets over the big pond. Excited!

----------


## thecoffeeman

> Just read Ant#1 on comixology, that was the most fun superhero comic I've read in awhile, cant wait for #2 to come out.


Yeah, this issue was lots of fun. I had my LCS add it to my pull list.

----------


## DanMad1977

Ant 1 was a fun issue. 

What a cool character she is.

----------


## fin5

Whats the states of Savege Dragon.The last book was in setenber

----------


## armlessphelan

> Whats the states of Savege Dragon.The last book was in setenber


Resolicited for January.

----------


## Destro777

Shame about the gap in between books. It seemed Savage Dragon had some real momentum during the pandemic - lots of new people were discovering the character. My LCS was selling out of the book on day 1. I remember the LCS owner said people called the shop constantly about the recent issue with the Tiger and Dragon's daughter on the cover when it came out.

I guess Erik taking over Ant really added to the work load. Really appreciate and respect he went for a new character - but it kinda fell at a bad time because Dragon was taking off.

----------


## icctrombone

> Shame about the gap in between books. It seemed Savage Dragon had some real momentum during the pandemic - lots of new people were discovering the character. My LCS was selling out of the book on day 1. I remember the LCS owner said people called the shop constantly about the recent issue with the Tiger and Dragon's daughter on the cover when it came out.
> 
> I guess Erik taking over Ant really added to the work load. Really appreciate and respect he went for a new character - but it kinda fell at a bad time because Dragon was taking off.


I think I remember asking him about possibly doing an ANT comic a few years back and that was a concern of his. He's doing 2 books, and it's not easy.

----------


## DanMad1977

> I think I remember asking him about possibly doing an ANT comic a few years back and that was a concern of his. He's doing 2 books, and it's not easy.


If I were him, I would pay an artist for Ant and just write and plot the book. So I could concentrate on SD. 

But Its a risk, no one knows if Ant makes enough money to pay an artist. Maybe with issue 6 or later on you could possibly say. 

Does anyone know how many issues number 1  sold? I cannot find it at comichron.

----------


## icctrombone

> If I were him, I would pay an artist for Ant and just write and plot the book. So I could concentrate on SD. 
> 
> But Its a risk, no one knows if Ant makes enough money to pay an artist. Maybe with issue 6 or later on you could possibly say. 
> 
> Does anyone know how many issues number 1  sold? I cannot find it at comichron.


Also, I would buy a book that Larsen draws but an unknown artist ? I don't think so.

----------


## thecoffeeman

Man, trying to complete this run is going to be impossible. Virtually all issues between 100 and 250 are going for $10 a pop online, and that's when they even show up at all. 

Luckily dollar bins and back issues in various shops near me have borne considerable fruit, so I'm about halfway there, but good lord.

I'm hopeful that both SD and Ant can get on track to release monthly, but I'm not holding my breath. Both have been hit by huge delays.

----------


## CliffHanger2

Ant 2 was a fun romp. Liking the direction this  book is going in. Props on the art chores being consistent with 2 books can't be easy. The new style on Ant pops.

----------


## Blanks

I went back and re-read the original ANT mini and Marios first 11 issues again. I bought the new issue 12, 1 and 2, but I felt the need to go back and re-read it again from the beginning to get the full experience and appreciation of the new series. It had honestly been YEARS since I read the original issues 1-11.

----------


## matt levin

Blanks--  and so what was your feeling reading the new Ant issues?
I, too, haven't read the first series in years, but my memory of it made the new series seem jarring, enough to turn me against it.  I did get the new #2 but it wasn't what I'd liked before.  Getting stuffy and old-fashioned, I am, I guess.

----------


## DanMad1977

> Also, I would buy a book that Larsen draws but an unknown artist ? I don't think so.


What about a guest artist like Mario Gully?  :Cool:

----------


## Blanks

> Blanks--  and so what was your feeling reading the new Ant issues?
> I, too, haven't read the first series in years, but my memory of it made the new series seem jarring, enough to turn me against it.  I did get the new #2 but it wasn't what I'd liked before.  Getting stuffy and old-fashioned, I am, I guess.


Honestly, Im liking the new direction. I guess since its been so many years and I became disinterested in the original series and forgetting about it. Im digging that we finally got some answers regarding Hannahs dad; that mystery semi solved for now. Still to early to judge the new run, but Im here for the haul.

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## fin5

What is going on with Savage dragon is it canceld

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## DanMad1977

> What is going on with Savage dragon is it canceld


No, Erik is handling two books right now, so that takes it time. And I read something about a writers blockade (or how that is called) he is having.

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## capuga

> What is going on with Savage dragon is it canceld


He posted on twitter that he pushing the next new release to June so that he can get a few issues in the can and it will have a regular release schedule once June rolls around. He was upset about the irregular release schedule so he decided to delay the next release and get caught up.

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## DanMad1977

> He posted on twitter that he pushing the next new release to June so that he can get a few issues in the can and it will have a regular release schedule once June rolls around. He was upset about the irregular release schedule so he decided to delay the next release and get caught up.


JUNE? Which one was the last issue hitting the stands? The last one I got was 260...So 261 is scheduled to June?

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## fin5

261 is out 262 is not

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## DanMad1977

> 261 is out 262 is not


Ok, thanks.

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## armlessphelan

https://www.humblebundle.com/books/i...90s_bookbundle

Savage Dragon is included in the new Image Comics' Humble Bundle! And not the B&W archives for a change.

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## Destro777

Savage Dragon #262 was like returning home. The book is still one of a kind and still feels fresh after all these years.
Also one of the best Savage Dragon issues in a long while. Absolutely loved it. Gotta love all those wacky Vicious Circle badguys and the shocking covid/dragon blood scenes. Thats the kind of out of nowhere crazy SD is known for.

By the sounds of the letters page Larsen's recent writer's block was giving him some thoughts to hanging it up(!!!). But he mentioned he never stopped working - day after day drawing and redrawing - writing and rewriting. It was pretty sad to read that. Needing a break is completely understandable - writing and drawing a book for 30(!) years. I really hope he sticks with it. The dude was born to write and draw comics - and I always felt he would do it until hes no longer able to pick up a pencil. Hang in there Erik!

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## Toxin45

Dang hope lareson continues this I seen him on Twitter hope he reaches 300 and beyond at least

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## K7P5V

> Dang hope lareson continues this I seen him on Twitter hope he reaches 300 and beyond at least


Agreed. Would love to see Larsen reach Dave Sim  :Smile:

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## icctrombone

> Dang hope lareson continues this I seen him on Twitter hope he reaches 300 and beyond at least


I didn't hear anything about him stopping the book. it's understandable for a creator to want a break after doing the same book for 30 years.

----------


## CliffHanger2

He's in the new issue of Ant. But the new ant seems to be lacking some coherency. Maybe it's on purpose or maybe it's just the time in between each issue. But There seems to be a lot of re-hashing of the past series. Even to the point of recreating Gully's panels. Kinda thought Ant was moving on. Not sure what's supposed to be real or imagined. Still liking the series but yeah some things need some clarification.

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## icctrombone

> He's in the new issue of Ant. But the new ant seems to be lacking some coherency. Maybe it's on purpose or maybe it's just the time in between each issue. But There seems to be a lot of re-hashing of the past series. Even to the point of recreating Gully's panels. Kinda thought Ant was moving on. Not sure what's supposed to be real or imagined. Still liking the series but yeah some things need some clarification.


But on the other hand, what a body on her...

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## CliffHanger2

> But on the other hand, what a body on her...


 :Cool:  LOL. Yeah he's def handling his business in that aspect.

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## BigLbo

i scored a shitload of dragon comics for 50cents a piece last weekend at StocktonCon(california). from as early as the 30's to as late as 257

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## icctrombone

> i scored a shitload of dragon comics for 50cents a piece last weekend at StocktonCon(california). from as early as the 30's to as late as 257


Well done ! I have the complete run but had to pay around 15 each for the 2 issues that came in the early pandemic months of 2020.

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## fin5

What is going on with Savage Dragon?

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## shooshoomanjoe

Larsen is out of Twitter

For myself, I finally created an account shortly before Musk said he was going to buy it so it's not something I'll miss.




> "Larsen, a comic book creator and artist best known for "The Amazing Spider-Man," reportedly tweeted in April that "the day Elon Musk buys Twitter is the day I delete my account and leave Twitter."
> 
> Larsen's handle, @ErikJLarsen, appeared to have been deactivated Monday.
> 
> In an email, Larsen confirmed he is finished with Twitter.
> 
> "Yeah, I left. I said I would leave if Musk bought Twitter. Musk bought Twitter," he said. "So, I had no choice. The move only emboldened those most toxic users. The racists, 'patriots' and creeps are back in full force."
> 
> "I have no regrets," he added."

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## Erik Larsen

> What is going on with Savage Dragon?


Life occasionally gets in the way. There's not much I can do about that. I'm working on it.

----------


## babyblob

I just read my first Savage Dragon Issues.  Numbers 1-3 from the I think 1992 Mini/Run?  Not sure what to call it.

I really enjoyed it.  The 3 issues just blew by and I am looking forward to getting into my friends massive stack.

I also want to ask does that group that shows up there The Young Bloods have their own series?  The fight with Bedrock was a lot of fun to read.  And I think I saw Spawn in a trench coat do a cameo?

----------


## Uncanny X-Man

> Life occasionally gets in the way. There's not much I can do about that. I'm working on it.


Mr Larsen,

I hope everything is alright. Keep up the good work.

----------


## icctrombone

> I just read my first Savage Dragon Issues.  Numbers 1-3 from the I think 1992 Mini/Run?  Not sure what to call it.
> 
> I really enjoyed it.  The 3 issues just blew by and I am looking forward to getting into my friends massive stack.
> 
> I also want to ask does that group that shows up there The Young Bloods have their own series?  The fight with Bedrock was a lot of fun to read.  And I think I saw Spawn in a trench coat do a cameo?


It was an exciting time in the Image universe for those books you've read. Youngblood had a 10 issue series and had a companion book , Team Youngblood, that lasted into its 20's. Spawn and other Image characters wandered in and out of books because, although all the books were creator owned, they wanted a shared universe. Larsen was really good about lending Savage Dragon out to other books too.

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## babyblob

> It was an exciting time in the Image universe for those books you've read. Youngblood had a 10 issue series and had a companion book , Team Youngblood, that lasted into its 20's. Spawn and other Image characters wandered in and out of books because, although all the books were creator owned, they wanted a shared universe. Larsen was really good about lending Savage Dragon out to other books too.


Thanks for the answer.  I am going to raid his comics to see if he has the Youngblood issues.  I know he has a ton of Spawn issues including number 1 that I am going to crack into next.  

I had never read any superhero books that were not Marvel or DC and he has been telling me I had been missing out.  he has been on me awhile to read some and so I thought I would start with Savage Dragon as I liked his design.

I am not regretting it.  It is a real thrill to jump into these for the first time.  I am looking forward to getting more into The Image World.

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## Erik Larsen

> I just read my first Savage Dragon Issues.  Numbers 1-3 from the I think 1992 Mini/Run?  Not sure what to call it.
> 
> I really enjoyed it.  The 3 issues just blew by and I am looking forward to getting into my friends massive stack.
> 
> I also want to ask does that group that shows up there The Young Bloods have their own series?  The fight with Bedrock was a lot of fun to read.  And I think I saw Spawn in a trench coat do a cameo?


Youngblood HAD its own series, which lasted for a few years. That was indeed Spawn guest appearing. He has appeared several times since.

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## babyblob

> Youngblood HAD its own series, which lasted for a few years. That was indeed Spawn guest appearing. He has appeared several times since.


Thank you for the answer.

I want to say I am relly enjoying your comics.  I have never read non Marvel Non DC Superhero comics before Other then Ninja Turtles.  And I am really enjoying these. 

I do have a Question.  I read the first 3 where Savage Dragon Joins the police force.  Then the next series I was reading they talked about his Girlfriend being killed.  Did I miss some issues in between?

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## K7P5V

> It was an exciting time in the Image universe for those books you've read. Youngblood had a 10 issue series and had a companion book , Team Youngblood, that lasted into its 20's. Spawn and other Image characters wandered in and out of books because, although all the books were creator owned, they wanted a shared universe. Larsen was really good about lending Savage Dragon out to other books too.


For what it's worth, still loved it when Mr. Erik emulated Mr. Todd's stylistic-tendencies (LOL):

----------


## SavageJudgeDredd

Excellent stuff for sure!




> Thank you for the answer.
> 
> I want to say I am relly enjoying your comics.  I have never read non Marvel Non DC Superhero comics before Other then Ninja Turtles.  And I am really enjoying these. 
> 
> I do have a Question.  I read the first 3 where Savage Dragon Joins the police force.  Then the next series I was reading they talked about his Girlfriend being killed.  Did I miss some issues in between?


Yep, just one little story where that Debbie thing takes place. It was originally in this Image #0 comic thing. It has since been included in the vol 1 trade paperback and the The Dragon extended version of the mini-series. But that 3 issue version was my first read too, all great stuff.

https://wiki.savagedragon.com/comics/image_zero/

----------


## K7P5V

> Excellent stuff for sure!
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, just one little story where that Debbie thing takes place. It was originally in this Image #0 comic thing. It has since been included in the vol 1 trade paperback and the The Dragon extended version of the mini-series. But that 3 issue version was my first read too, all great stuff.
> 
> https://wiki.savagedragon.com/comics/image_zero/


Yeah! Still remember reading about Debbie's death in the TPB collection. Both sad & gruesome at the same time...  :Frown:

----------


## fin5

I saw last Wednesday the Hardcover of Savage Dragon came out who got this

----------


## McFarlane's Green Hulk

ME!  Whether or not it comes before Christmas is up to UPS....

----------


## K7P5V

> I saw last Wednesday the Hardcover of Savage Dragon came out who got this


Just received my copy over the weekend. Totally looking forward to the next volume!  :Smile:

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## bob.schoonover

> Just received my copy over the weekend. Totally looking forward to the next volume!


Oh, I didn't realize this existed. Awesome. I was hoping for Compendiums (for expediency's sake among other reasons), but I'll have one of these in my next CGN order

----------


## fin5

> Oh, I didn't realize this existed. Awesome. I was hoping for Compendiums (for expediency's sake among other reasons), but I'll have one of these in my next CGN order


im ordering it should come tomarow

----------


## fin5

can we please have a update on savage dragon mr Larsen

----------


## Captain Craig

> I saw last Wednesday the Hardcover of Savage Dragon came out who got this


I got it and I haven't read these issues in at least 15 years. I've got a trade with the initial Image mini or maybe the start of the ongoing(I forget the contents but it is half of this HC edition) somewhere that I grabbed at a Con for $5 mid-2000s. I'm looking to rediscover the character as I read the run up through the 50s back in the 1990s. 

I'm sure like all projects future volumes determines current consumption(like how the Witchblade HC has stalled) but has Larsen stated if a vol.2 is being worked on for 2023?

----------


## SavageJudgeDredd

> I got it and I haven't read these issues in at least 15 years. I've got a trade with the initial Image mini or maybe the start of the ongoing(I forget the contents but it is half of this HC edition) somewhere that I grabbed at a Con for $5 mid-2000s. I'm looking to rediscover the character as I read the run up through the 50s back in the 1990s. 
> 
> I'm sure like all projects future volumes determines current consumption(like how the Witchblade HC has stalled) but has Larsen stated if a vol.2 is being worked on for 2023?


That's great! He was on the Savage Fincast (great podcast), mentioned he'd like to have maybe 2 out a year if possible, and that future ones should come together easier on his end. Or something like that.

That's cool to hear you're jumping back into Dragon, so good. I'd suggest reading the series any way you can, digital, the newer trades, maybe enjoy the old stuff and newer stuff simultaneously, as an idea. There is 30 years of it, plenty of cool stuff to check out.

I've got my Ultimate Collection, definitely really cool. I also have the trades, and I've got the single issues from 160 to present, plus all the digital releases of the issues, so that's a lotta Dragon.  :Cool:

----------


## PossumGrease

I picked up the Ultimate Collection, having not read these issues in 15+ years. I'm eager to get to the more interesting stories, but every tale has to start somewhere. The art really popped in the larger format.

There was a lot (felt like half the book) of "source material" like sketches, doodles, etc. That's great for a first volume, but I would rather have more issues in future volumes. I would really rather have a compendium, but I don't think that's happening any time soon. 

Sounds like I'm complaining, but I am glad I bought the book and will be buying volume 2.

----------


## icctrombone

I walked into my Comic shop and the two workers there seemed to think that maybe S Dragon was going to stop publishing for poor sales. We can't expect Erik to produce the book on a loss every month.

----------


## SavageJudgeDredd

> I walked into my Comic shop and the two workers there seemed to think that maybe S Dragon was going to stop publishing for poor sales. We can't expect Erik to produce the book on a loss every month.


It's been selling better in recent years, and word has been pretty good in Erik's interviews. Still sounds like he's in to keep the book going for a long time. I'm not worried, it seems it's in as sustainable a place as ever. But we can always spread the word!

----------


## icctrombone

> It's been selling better in recent years, and word has been pretty good in Erik's interviews. Still sounds like he's in to keep the book going for a long time. I'm not worried, it seems it's in as sustainable a place as ever. But we can always spread the word!


Lets buy two copies each.   :Smile:

----------

