# Comics  > Batman >  Damian Wayne: Robin Appreciation 2020

## Astralabius

Link to old thread: https://community.cbr.com/showthread...reciation-2019

Happy New Year to everyone!

What are your hopes or expectations for Damian in 2020?

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## Restingvoice

The original story of Damian's conception that Morrison misremembered where he is named ibn al Xu'ffasch (Son of The Bat)
4a07ec8a638a00724a09dba666a3ab7d._SX1280_QL80_TTD_.jpg

In the end, Talia pretended that Ibn died after Talia was attacked so Bruce will focus on being Batman instead of worrying about them and gave the baby away.

I always wonder how it will end up for Damian if Morrison got Talia right.

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## Ansa

> The original story of Damian's conception that Morrison misremembered where he is named ibn al Xu'ffasch (Son of The Bat)
> 4a07ec8a638a00724a09dba666a3ab7d._SX1280_QL80_TTD_.jpg
> 
> In the end, Talia pretended that Ibn died after Talia was attacked so Bruce will focus on being Batman instead of worrying about them and gave the baby away.
> 
> I always wonder how it will end up for Damian if Morrison got Talia right.


20200101_135441.jpg

I think the author of Son of the demon wanted to write a sequel where Bruce and Ra's find out about the boy around the same time and battle each other for custody, but I can't remember where I read it.

It would be funny if at some point in the future Bruce lands in another universe where Damian got adopted by the nice couple in the picture above. I want to see Bruce's reaction to Damian calling another man "Dad" for some reason.

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## Blue22

> The original story of Damian's conception that Morrison misremembered where he is named *ibn al Xu'ffasch* (Son of The Bat)


Lol okay this has been bothering me for years. How do you pronounce that!?

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## Jackalope89

The best Super Sons fanfic I have come across is Multiversal Constant. It takes places during the first run of Super Sons, right after the boys finish up their fight on the magic planet, they try and get home, only to wind up on Young Justice season 1. And completely derail the series of events.

https://archiveofourown.org/works/14...pters/33107610

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## Frontier

Happy New Year to the Super Son and most deadly Robin  :Cool: .

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## Restingvoice

> Lol okay this has been bothering me for years. How do you pronounce that!?


Eebnool Huff-huff-fish-e 

but that's from 

abn alkhafafish (son of the bat)

coz apparently Ibn Al'Xuffash isn't available on google translate.

for example Ra's al Ghul is written as Ras alghawl

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## Rac7d*

I hope he appears again in HQ

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## CPSparkles

Happy new year everyone

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## CPSparkles

> The best Super Sons fanfic I have come across is Multiversal Constant. It takes places during the first run of Super Sons, right after the boys finish up their fight on the magic planet, they try and get home, only to wind up on Young Justice season 1. And completely derail the series of events.
> 
> https://archiveofourown.org/works/14...pters/33107610


I can't get over just how popular these kids are which makes it even more baffling that DC tossed them so quick.

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## Jackalope89

> I can't get over just how popular these kids are which makes it even more baffling that DC tossed them so quick.


It truly is mind boggling. And they would have been a great catalyst for an animated series on DCU, but aimed at kids.

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## CPSparkles

> Link to old thread: https://community.cbr.com/showthread...reciation-2019
> 
> Happy New Year to everyone!
> 
> What are your hopes or expectations for Damian in 2020?


Hope

I hope that Dick comes back and we get plenty of LittleD and big D action [i will never stop thanking Babs for giving them that Nickname.

I hope Tom Taylor gets the batman gig because that would mean great thing's for Damian
a Tom Taylor Supersons title
Injustice 3. Taylor is one of the best things to happen to Damian so I want more
More Damian in HQ.
Now that WW year one is done I hope Morrison has been hard at work on Arkham Ayslum 2. I need that title
YJ season 4 with a time skip and we see Damian being deadly . I know a huge timeskip isn't viable but one of the notable thing's about Damian that makes him special and easy to fit is the fact that he was fast grown. Time and years don't apply to him

Expectations

I expect Damian to show up in more than one animated movie [JLD and one more]
I expect Damian and Bruce to carry on as is no mention of what happened under King and the family to be as jumbled up as always. I expected stories where Bruce is the best dad and wants to do things with Damian to run alongside stories where Bruce is the worst dad.
I expect Damian as always to be written by various creators which most of his fans will fail to support or choose to ignore when it come to discussing Damian.
I expect Bendis to keep using him and get slightly better at it.
I expect another Supersons book by Zoom since the last one sold very well

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## CPSparkles

> The original story of Damian's conception that Morrison misremembered where he is named ibn al Xu'ffasch (Son of The Bat)
> 4a07ec8a638a00724a09dba666a3ab7d._SX1280_QL80_TTD_.jpg
> 
> In the end, Talia pretended that Ibn died after Talia was attacked so Bruce will focus on being Batman instead of worrying about them and gave the baby away.
> 
> I always wonder how it will end up for Damian if Morrison got Talia right.


It would be the same/a little better [less hate for Damian and less calls of rape baby] or Damian would loose a lot of his narrative potential. Look at Helena Wayne.

It might also be worse fans claim that Bruce having a bio kid ruins Robin imagine if that kid was one that Bruce wanted and was ready to give up Batman for?

That would be awful for Damian. Already with accusations of Blood is better being tossed about imagine adding to that that while Bruce was willing to endanger other people's kids and Orphans. When it comes to his bio kid that he wanted he suddenly see the folly of his ways. This live is so precious that he decides he's going to stop being Batman [I suddenly realise that Son of the Demon is what some are hoping will happen in 5G]

Anyway Damian and Talia aren't joined together and their narrative isn't linked. I don';t like the idea of damian's mum being in a legitimate relationship with Bruce because that damages him and makes him more vulnerable to getting retconed or written out also the story potential is limited.

Priest used Damian extensively because Talia wasn't tied to Bruce
bendis on Leviathan
Injustice so many stories where Damian and Bruce clash we wouldn't get if Damian and Talia were snuggling up. So I for one I'm glad. I feel it's better for Talia and Damian that Morrison got it wrong. INc was the most bad ass Talia has ever been and the most agency she's had

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## CPSparkles

Anyone else notice that Damian from the Harley Quin show looked a lot like Dick from TT? maybe that's why I like HQ@s Robin so much.

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## CPSparkles



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## CPSparkles



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## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/OtterTheAuthor

because Santa's Damian

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## CPSparkles

Happy New Year from the Lil Lads

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## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/OtterTheAuthor

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## Blue22

God, these never fail to be heartwarming. DC, hire this man...or woman...

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## dietrich

> The original story of Damian's conception that Morrison misremembered where he is named ibn al Xu'ffasch (Son of The Bat)
> Attachment 90840
> 
> In the end, Talia pretended that Ibn died after Talia was attacked so Bruce will focus on being Batman instead of worrying about them and gave the baby away.
> 
> I always wonder how it will end up for Damian if Morrison got Talia right.


Damian would have had a regular upbringing and never would have become part of Batman's life. Only a very cruel person would drag a kid from normal stable life into one of crime fighting

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## dietrich

> God, these never fail to be heartwarming. DC, hire this man...or woman...


I know right.

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## Blue22

> Link to old thread: https://community.cbr.com/showthread...reciation-2019
> 
> Happy New Year to everyone!
> 
> What are your hopes or expectations for Damian in 2020?


*Hopes:*
- Things go back to normal between Dick and Damian.
- All future reunions between Jon and Damian aren't written by Bendis.
- Damian and Bruce stop acting like jackasses and start getting along again (Same goes for the Batfamily as a whole, honestly)
- Things start becoming more like how they were at the end of Tomasi's run where Damian wasn't miserable, had a good relationship with his Dad, and moved past the "Am I good or bad" angst.
- More good/accurate appearances outside of the comics. Less Ninja Batman and Harley Quinn (though I was, admittedly, amused by that take on him) and more DC Animated Universe and Batman VS TMNT. I'd like to say I wanna see him and Jon in the next season of YJ, but unless time travel is involved that would mean another huge time skip and I *do not* want that.
- Instead of trying to turn the Teen Titans into his thing, give him his own team with their own name. Like how Tim had Young Justice.
- Keep. Deathstroke. Away. From him. And. All. Children!

As for expectations...The only thing in that list I'm actually expecting to happen is a return to form for him and Dick. Maybe more animated appearances too.




> Damian would have had a regular upbringing and never would have become part of Batman's life. Only a very cruel person would drag a kid from normal stable life into one of crime fighting


So Bruce when he let Tim become Robin XD

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## dietrich

> Link to old thread: https://community.cbr.com/showthread...reciation-2019
> 
> Happy New Year to everyone!
> 
> What are your hopes or expectations for Damian in 2020?


My greatest hope is that Morrison delivers on the Arkaham Asylum follow up.
 A Supersons animated series would be ace but knowing my luck we'll get a CW show

I would like more positive stories even more writers discovering, using and pushing Damian. I want to see lots of stories with the character in a variety of genres like we have seen before. I hope that continues.
A batman and Robin title would be a dream but we know that's not going to happen.

a sequel to Batman v TMNT [both the movie and the comics] If possible more focus on Damian and Raph the Bromance I didn't see coming but that was the best thing out of the Comics and movie
Dick and damian back together again. I don't even need a book just the storiues.

Some other writer explore more about Slade wanting Damian to be his.

Expectations

more of the same
Damian hasn't had a bad 2019. In fact compared to the rest Damian had a much much better 2019 than all the others aside from Bruce [that's not saying a lot]
I don't expect huge changes but with Ben as the new Bat Office editor I expect more Damian and even more Taylor writing Damian and Batman

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## Blue22

> a sequel to Batman v TMNT [both the movie and the comics] If possible more focus on Damian and Raph the Bromance I didn't see coming but that was the best thing out of the Comics and movie


Dude how did you not see that coming? Raphael is basically Damian and Jason molded into one. Those two were bound to butt heads and then become buddies XD

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## dietrich

> Dude how did you not see that coming? Raphael is basically Damian and Jason molded into one. Those two were bound to butt heads and then become buddies XD


I know but you get so used to seeing Raph being the counter part to Jason that you start to expect the animators to only see the most basic shallow resemblances. I mean if comic readers make this mistake what hope do the animators have.

Tynion I wasn't surprised since he knows Robins but the animators was a very pleasant surprise.

I need more and more. I hope we get a followup. It was very very well received

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## Restingvoice

> Damian would have had a regular upbringing and never would have become part of Batman's life. Only a very cruel person would drag a kid from normal stable life into one of crime fighting


You mean like if Talia never pretended Ibn died, Talia and Bruce would've been married and retired, raising Damian as a normal kid?

Hmm... but the difference is canon Batman would never give up crimefighting for Talia as long as she's tied to her father, so I see that scenario happens only if Talia fully leaves Ra's. 

Otherwise, Talia would keep Damian and raise him in the League, with much more love than canon but still has the League's influence, and Ra's is still going to consider him a vessel candidate. 

I imagine if that's the case Damian's first meeting with Bruce will happen in Ressurection of Ra's al Ghul instead

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## Arctic Cyclist

> You mean like if Talia never pretended Ibn died, Talia and Bruce would've been married and retired, raising Damian as a normal kid?
> 
> Hmm... but the difference is canon Batman would never give up crimefighting for Talia as long as she's tied to her father, so I see that scenario happens only if Talia fully leaves Ra's. 
> 
> Otherwise, Talia would keep Damian and raise him in the League, with much more love than canon but still has the League's influence, and Ra's is still going to consider him a vessel candidate. 
> 
> I imagine if that's the case Damian's first meeting with Bruce will happen in Ressurection of Ra's al Ghul instead


That was explored in the Brotherhood of the Bat miniseries, which honestly needs to be revisited. DC keeps missing the boat on Talia and ignoring the popular literary and entertainment trends by focusing on Selina, Ivy, and Harley. Birdbox was huge, as were the various Terminator series. Exploring how Talia succeeds in raising the happy little bean Tallant (who is basically Batman Ninja Damian with Dick Grayson's people skills) in a world tearing itself apart while hunted by her father would be a lot of fun. 

It's never going to happen, but the Sarah Connor version of Talia is something readers would buy. Maybe not in the six figures, but probably in the 40 to 50 thousand range if the art is good. 

With the right marketing, i.e. aiming towards adult females who formerly made the core Damian Wayne fan base, it could break 50,000 in physical copies and the same if not two to three times that in digital. Especially if there's some nice cheesecake flashbacks to Bruce being a dad and husband before his death.

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## Restingvoice

> That was explored in the Brotherhood of the Bat miniseries, which honestly needs to be revisited.


Holy... look at all those 90s Batmen!
Spikes... spikes everywhere
Who are the rest of the Brotherhood? They all work under Ra's?

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## Arctic Cyclist

> Holy... look at all those 90s Batmen!
> Spikes... spikes everywhere
> Who are the rest of the Brotherhood? They all work under Ra's?


Yep. Then Tallant kidnapped and befriended them. That...appears to be a thing regardless of how the son of Talia and Bruce was raised and named. He kidnaps people, becomes friends with them, and turns them into heroes.

I keep hoping that the child/people hoarding that he gets from both his parents becomes a thing. Well, is allowed to be a thing.

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## Rac7d*

> God, these never fail to be heartwarming. DC, hire this man...or woman...


Nah under DC they would suck the fun

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## dietrich

> You mean like if Talia never pretended Ibn died, Talia and Bruce would've been married and retired, raising Damian as a normal kid?
> 
> Hmm... but the difference is canon Batman would never give up crimefighting for Talia as long as she's tied to her father, so I see that scenario happens only if Talia fully leaves Ra's. 
> 
> Otherwise, Talia would keep Damian and raise him in the League, with much more love than canon but still has the League's influence, and Ra's is still going to consider him a vessel candidate. 
> 
> I imagine if that's the case Damian's first meeting with Bruce will happen in Ressurection of Ra's al Ghul instead


No I was thinking more if Ibn was given away just like Talia planned in the story and then Bruce found him. He would be a kid without training. Just a kid living his regular life going to school etc Much like Tim but if he were Bruce's kid

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## dietrich

https://doc-squash.tumblr.com

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## dietrich

https://66.media.tumblr.com/2ec85794...ffa0eca123.jpg

https://bandaoying.tumblr.com

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## dietrich

https://twitter.com/bandaoyin_mu

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## dietrich

How do you guys feel about the other sticking around as a Damian antagonist?

Slade is cool, The alghul's are fine but they already belong to others.

Mara was wasted, Kid Amazo is fine but really is a Supersons villain. I want Heretic sticking around

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## dietrich

Baby bat and to think that that nickname is canon

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## dietrich

Sparkles comment about Babs giving Dick and damian their nickname got me thinking what other nickname does Damian have in canon?

Lil d
baby bat
Dami

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## Blue22

> How do you guys feel about the other sticking around as a Damian antagonist?
> 
> Slade is cool, The alghul's are fine but they already belong to others.
> 
> Mara was wasted, Kid Amazo is fine but really is a Supersons villain. I want Heretic sticking around


I don't mind Heretic staying. If anything, he'd be a nice little deterrent whenever Damian starts to waver. A reminder of what he could have been if he stayed under Ra's and Talia's thumb.

He's a better nemesis for him than Slade "Keep him away from kids" Wilson.

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## CPSparkles

> How do you guys feel about the other sticking around as a Damian antagonist?
> 
> Slade is cool, The alghul's are fine but they already belong to others.
> 
> Mara was wasted, Kid Amazo is fine but really is a Supersons villain. I want Heretic sticking around


heretic and Mara are execllent foils for Damian.

I think the Al Ghul's are also fine for Damian as is Slade since Slade is Dick and somewaht Bruce's foil and Damian is Robin, Bruce's son and Dick's protege
[Has Slade been a foil to any of the bats aside from Dick, Damian and Bruce?]

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## CPSparkles

> Sparkles comment about Babs giving Dick and damian their nickname got me thinking what other nickname does Damian have in canon?
> 
> Lil d
> baby bat
> Dami


Dames 
Demon Spawn
D

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## CPSparkles

> Baby bat and to think that that nickname is canon


And one day you'll get to fill out that suit Damian. I really want a follow up to that world that Taylor teased

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## CPSparkles

> No I was thinking more if Ibn was given away just like Talia planned in the story and then Bruce found him. He would be a kid without training. Just a kid living his regular life going to school etc Much like Tim but if he were Bruce's kid


So like Damian from Harley Quinn if we ignore the raised by the LoA since that is clearly not true or the LOA is trash in that world. The kind of Robin who cries and calls for his mummy when the going gets tough.

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## Restingvoice

> Yep. Then Tallant kidnapped and befriended them. That...appears to be a thing regardless of how the son of Talia and Bruce was raised and named. He kidnaps people, becomes friends with them, and turns them into heroes.
> 
> I keep hoping that the child/people hoarding that he gets from both his parents becomes a thing. Well, is allowed to be a thing.


omg and that's the 90s. That's awesome. I guess he really did get it from his parents

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## CPSparkles

happy new year



https://twitter.com/kurachi

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## CPSparkles

Digimon damian




Dick and Damian




https://twitter.com/gothamtwinks






https://twitter.com/syusyusyu1515

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## Frontier

> Digimon damian


...I need Digimon Goliath in my life.

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## CPSparkles

batfam

they look like vampires [so very pale]





https://twitter.com/bibyami




https://twitter.com/smahssa

who run the world




https://twitter.com/gothamtwinks

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## CPSparkles

Son of batman Damian




https://twitter.com/zumaon

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## CPSparkles

talia




https://twitter.com/akkiyamia

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## Restingvoice

Correct me if I'm wrong. Damian's first villains are
The Spook, which he killed the first time he got to Gotham
Killer Croc, which he stumbled on when he took the Batmobile on a joyride 
Dr. Phosphorus, which he was unprepared as he didn't wear an anti-radiation suit
Mr. Toad, which he performed the first iconic double punch with Dick as Batman

Which one did he face on his first outing with Bruce as Batman? Right after he almost killed Tim?

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## dietrich

> Dames 
> Demon Spawn
> D


Not sure how I forgot D. The Supersons nickname

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## dietrich

> Correct me if I'm wrong. Damian's first villains are
> The Spook, which he killed the first time he got to Gotham
> Killer Croc, which he stumbled on when he took the Batmobile on a joyride 
> Dr. Phosphorus, which he was unprepared as he didn't wear an anti-radiation suit
> Mr. Toad, which he performed the first iconic double punch with Dick as Batman
> 
> Which one did he face on his first outing with Bruce as Batman? Right after he almost killed Tim?


Man bats. batman and makeshift Robin went after manbats.,

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## CPSparkles

> Correct me if I'm wrong. Damian's first villains are
> The Spook, which he killed the first time he got to Gotham
> Killer Croc, which he stumbled on when he took the Batmobile on a joyride 
> Dr. Phosphorus, which he was unprepared as he didn't wear an anti-radiation suit
> Mr. Toad, which he performed the first iconic double punch with Dick as Batman
> 
> Which one did he face on his first outing with Bruce as Batman? Right after he almost killed Tim?


I always found it strange that when Bruce rushes in he screams Robin and not Tim. I mean they were in the cave and his guard was down.

Panels like that lend legitimacy to the whole Robin's are Batman's fodder soldiers. I wish he'd screamed Tim.

They went after the manbats and ruined talia's big plans

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## CPSparkles

Robins




Robin and cats



Robin




https://twitter.com/akkiyamia

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## CPSparkles

Not sure what thbis says but it's cute. Dick, Damian and Tim




https://twitter.com/letsgo4tequila

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## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/melqwer0

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## Digifiend

> Not sure what thbis says but it's cute. Dick, Damian and Tim
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/letsgo4tequila


Translation attempt using Google Translate:

Dick: "Damian! Noooooooooo!!"

Tim: "Drop the gun. Take a knife."

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## Jackalope89

I so wanted this as a team-up through Super Sons.

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## CPSparkles

> I so wanted this as a team-up through Super Sons.


Me too. That should have been one of my hopes. To see these two again. I hope Damian visits Hamilton again.

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## CPSparkles

> Translation attempt using Google Translate:
> 
> Dick: "Damian! Noooooooooo!!"
> 
> Tim: "Drop the gun. Take a knife."


Aah Thanks so much @Digifiend

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## Restingvoice

Ninja Man-Bats. Got it. 

What is his definitive first enemy or nemesis? We now have Heretic but are there anyone before him? Can Pyg count? Pyg is the one that stood out for me especially after he went off on his own and end up failing to save Sasha. It sounds similar to when Dick ignored Batman's warning, who was taken hostage at the time, to not play Two-Face's game and ended up causong the death of the mayor in Year One

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## CPSparkles

> Ninja Man-Bats. Got it. 
> 
> What is his definitive first enemy or nemesis? We now have Heretic but are there anyone before him? Can Pyg count? Pyg is the one that stood out for me especially after he went off on his own and end up failing to save Sasha. It sounds similar to when Dick ignored Batman's warning, who was taken hostage at the time, to not play Two-Face's game and ended up causong the death of the mayor in Year One


Yeah Pyg would count since he kinda became hung up on the dynamic duo with his Deathwing and Robinatron. I  could have done without the lap dance though. That was disturbing.

Yeah Sasha was Damian's 1st failure that hit home and hit hard though I don't think she was aiming fore the same thing as Damian ie. she was looking for vengeance which is something B&R don't do which was why she ends up getting  recruited by Jason.

Jason was also one of the duo's 1st enemies.

Pyg and Flamingo are the foes that keep coming back to me.

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## dietrich

Yes Pyg made quite the impression. I liked the whole circus group of baddies that the duo fought. Seeley took it up a notch and then King I don't understand why out of all the baddies for Bruce to mistake Damian for it's pyg. Of the the villains over the year for Bruce to have bad dreams about it's Pyg. I wasn't a fan of King using the character.

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## Jackalope89

I'm not really a shipper, but those that are; can someone explain the obsession of Damian with Marinette of Ladybug and Cat Noir?

And, yes. I've actually watched it (its not bad, very villain of the week show).

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## Blue22

Damian and Marinette? That's definitely a new one....and random. The only time I see Damian shipped with a non DC character, it's always Hit Girl or Kid Loki. But those at last make some amount of sense. Not sure why he and Ladybug would be popular.

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## dietrich

https://mootljuan.tumblr.com

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## dietrich

> Damian and Marinette? That's definitely a new one....and random. The only time I see Damian shipped with a non DC character, it's always Hit Girl or Kid Loki. But those at last make some amount of sense. Not sure why he and Ladybug would be popular.


It's not actually that new. On the old old old thread @fegus mentioned that his daughter and her pals  were really into the ship. I think it might have to do with kids working with what they have. 

This was before Rebirth and Djinn so Damian didn't really anything that could even be stretched into a ship so the kids went outside fandom.

I mean they are both superheroes of similar age at least now.

I wasn't aware Hit girl or loki was a ship for Damian. I've seen fan art of them pallying around but never any fiction ofor anything to suggest romance. The ladybird girl on the other hand seems to even have a ship name.

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## dietrich

https://mootljuan.tumblr.com

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## dietrich

D&D







https://dklem.tumblr.com

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## dietrich

https://dklem.tumblr.com

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## CPSparkles

> I'm not really a shipper, but those that are; can someone explain the obsession of Damian with Marinette of Ladybug and Cat Noir?
> 
> And, yes. I've actually watched it (its not bad, very villain of the week show).


Shippers will go to some lengths. I guess they are young heroes is enough. There's not much options in the kid hero dept like Dietrich said. It's been around for sometime and usually starts with Marinette taking a trip and meeting this surly rude rich kid. Or Tim plays match maker

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## CPSparkles

Anyone reading Adams Batman vs Ra's?

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## Restingvoice

> Yes Pyg made quite the impression. I liked the whole circus group of baddies that the duo fought. Seeley took it up a notch and then King I don't understand why out of all the baddies for Bruce to mistake Damian for it's pyg. Of the the villains over the year for Bruce to have bad dreams about it's Pyg. I wasn't a fan of King using the character.


Probably because it's one of his fears. That Damian will kill again. Amplified over 9000.

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## CPSparkles

> Dude how did you not see that coming? Raphael is basically Damian and Jason molded into one. Those two were bound to butt heads and then become buddies XD





> I know but you get so used to seeing Raph being the counter part to Jason that you start to expect the animators to only see the most basic shallow resemblances. I mean if comic readers make this mistake what hope do the animators have.
> 
> Tynion I wasn't surprised since he knows Robins but the animators was a very pleasant surprise.
> 
> I need more and more. I hope we get a followup. It was very very well received


Tynion claps back at lazy fans and their rubbish Turtles=Robins




I really liked Damian and Raph and I also really liked Damian and mickey

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## Blue22

I wouldn't exactly call it lazy. I can see the parallels between Leo and Dick, Tim and Donnie, and Jason and Raph. At least enough to get why fans constantly make the comparisons. it only falls apart when you add Damian and Mikey into the mix. The only thing they have in common is that they're the youngest brothers. Aside from that Damian is much closer to Raphael. Then again, Damian and Jason are also more alike than I'm sure either of them would care to admit.

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## CPSparkles

> I wouldn't exactly call it lazy. I can see the parallels between Leo and Dick, Tim and Donnie, and Jason and Raph. At least enough to get why fans constantly make the comparisons. it only falls apart when you add Damian and Mikey into the mix. The only thing they have in common is that they're the youngest brothers. Aside from that Damian is much closer to Raphael. Then again, Damian and Jason are also more alike than I'm sure either of them would care to admit.


Damian and Jason just like their narrative's are exact opposites
Their personalities, outlook, methods, the way they deal with problems everything about them is exactly opposite
Just like one went from killer to hero and the the other went from hero to killer, Just like their social backgrounds are on the opposite ends so are the characters themselves.

They have killed, have died and have returned but so has Dick Grayson. That is all they have in common. Everything else that matters when it comes to defining the characters are polar opposites.

The Turtles
aside from leo being the eldest and the leader he isn't anything like Dick.
Raph is defined by his opposing Leo and being a hot head that isn't Jason
Donnie and Tim are both techie's who use staff's these are the the most lazy and basic similarities and don't define the characters or represent who they are.

edit I should say One went from killer to Robin and the other Robin to killer if that makes it clearer

----------


## Jackalope89

> Damian and Jason just like their narrative's are exact opposites
> Their personalities, outlook, methods, the way they deal with problems everything about them is exactly opposite
> *Just like one went from killer to hero and the the other went from hero to killer*, Just like their social backgrounds are on the opposite ends so are the characters themselves.
> 
> They have killed, have died and have returned but so has Dick Grayson. That is all they have in common. Everything else that matters when it comes to defining the characters are polar opposites.
> 
> The Turtles
> aside from leo being the eldest and the leader he isn't anything like Dick.
> Raph is defined by his opposing Leo and being a hot head that isn't Jason
> Donnie and Tim are both techie's who use staff's these are the the most lazy and basic similarities and don't define the characters or represent who they are.


Yeah, about that. Jason may kill, but its not willy-nilly. What's more, while unconventional, he still is quite good. Like giving the Su Sisters (daughters of a Triad Boss) a way out of the criminal life by leaving them the Iceberg Lounge. Or looking after a bunch of kids that thought they wanted to be criminals, but really had no one to help guide them until he came along.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Yeah, about that. Jason may kill, but its not willy-nilly. What's more, while unconventional, he still is quite good. Like giving the Su Sisters (daughters of a Triad Boss) a way out of the criminal life by leaving them the Iceberg Lounge. Or looking after a bunch of kids that thought they wanted to be criminals, but really had no one to help guide them until he came along.


I don't see how that matters here. It's not a question of whether if he kills willy nilly [i actually don't think he's killed since the new 52] The point is he went from Robin to killer while Damian went from Killer to Robin.

My point is that Damian and Jason aren't really similar.

----------


## dietrich

> Anyone reading Adams Batman vs Ra's?


I'm trying so very hard to but it's a struggle. That book is bonkers and now we've got cave batman or something like that.

----------


## dietrich

> Damian and Jason just like their narrative's are exact opposites
> Their personalities, outlook, methods, the way they deal with problems everything about them is exactly opposite
> Just like one went from killer to hero and the the other went from hero to killer, Just like their social backgrounds are on the opposite ends so are the characters themselves.
> 
> They have killed, have died and have returned but* so has Dick Grayson.* That is all they have in common. Everything else that matters when it comes to defining the characters are polar opposites.
> 
> The Turtles
> aside from leo being the eldest and the leader he isn't anything like Dick.
> Raph is defined by his opposing Leo and being a hot head that isn't Jason
> ...


i was going to ask when but then i remember Joker. Dick Grayson the only bat who had the steel balls to end Joker

----------


## CPSparkles

> i was going to ask when but then i remember Joker. Dick Grayson the only bat who had the steel balls to end Joker


Yeah until Bruce revived him. That story reminds me of how close Tim and Dick used to be. I hope in 2020 now that everything's been restored that all the lost stories and relationships are reflected going forward

----------


## Ansa

> Yeah until Bruce revived him. That story reminds me of how close Tim and Dick used to be. I hope in 2020 now that everything's been restored that all the lost stories and relationships are reflected going forward


Restored continuity is one thing, but you also need DC and the writers to want to research and write about the relationship.
I for one would already be happy if DC remembered that all of them are called batFAMILY. Not Bruce, his perfect wife Selina, and the child soldiers we put in the background to fill the panel and to shoot if we need more cheap drama for the last page of the issue.

----------


## Ansa

> Yes Pyg made quite the impression. I liked the whole circus group of baddies that the duo fought. Seeley took it up a notch and then King I don't understand why out of all the baddies for Bruce to mistake Damian for it's pyg. Of the the villains over the year for Bruce to have bad dreams about it's Pyg. I wasn't a fan of King using the character.


I liked the art but the plot...I still don't know what the hell that Damian reveal was about. Someone online though the issue was about Bruce not letting Damian in, others thought it was about Bruce fearing Damian might kill again...which is also weird because 1) why use Pyg of all people 2) King's Batman spends zero time thinking about Damian and how he's doing before and after this issue. I have a hard time believing he's concerned enough to have a whole issue dedicated to this fear.

Anyway, none of it came up ever again.

----------


## CPSparkles

Bruce, Damian and Tim








https://twitter.com/smahssa

----------


## CPSparkles

SuperSons





https://twitter.com/okayu0317






https://twitter.com/gozerdor

----------


## CPSparkles

With Harley and Ivy inspired by Dceased







https://twitter.com/gozerdor





https://twitter.com/ohcome106

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/glitter_dc






https://twitter.com/katsuichi21





https://twitter.com/eksxm

----------


## CPSparkles

New DC Giants for Target

Batman the Caped Crusader

All new story with Robin, Nightwing, Batgirl and Joker

----------


## CPSparkles

The First Batman Toys From Spin Master's DC Comics Takeover Are Live

----------


## CPSparkles

Sideshow Robin Premuim Format figure hybrid Damian with Katana [swap head of Tim ]

----------


## CPSparkles

> The best Super Sons fanfic I have come across is Multiversal Constant. It takes places during the first run of Super Sons, right after the boys finish up their fight on the magic planet, they try and get home, only to wind up on Young Justice season 1. And completely derail the series of events.
> 
> https://archiveofourown.org/works/14...pters/33107610


Loved this. Thanks so much for recommending

----------


## Jackalope89

> Loved this. Thanks so much for recommending


No problem!

Trying to wade through all the Super Sons fics to find something NOT shipping Jon and Damian (on the less graphic side) is much harder then I thought when I first found this. Even with excluding various tags.

----------


## Arctic Cyclist

> I liked the art but the plot...I still don't know what the hell that Damian reveal was about. Someone online though the issue was about Bruce not letting Damian in, others thought it was about Bruce fearing Damian might kill again...which is also weird because 1) why use Pyg of all people 2) King's Batman spends zero time thinking about Damian and how he's doing before and after this issue. I have a hard time believing he's concerned enough to have a whole issue dedicated to this fear.
> 
> Anyway, none of it came up ever again.


Okay. Let's pretend that Tom King is actually a good writer and that the story is actually deep and meaningful not "Batman loves Catwoman."

Nightmares makes sense if it's an homage to the Batman: TAS episode, the Superman/Batman issue, and Final Crisis where the villains trap Bruce in a lotus eating machine and attempt to make him happy. Remember, this was both Bane's and Thomas's stated goals. Also remember that Hugo Strange is the one who created Gotham Girl and sent her to Batman, as well as Gotham Girl triggering his first reaching out and then proposing to Selina.

Hugo Strange is the biggest in universe BatCat shipper, and for most of comics history, the only one besides Talia. (BruTalia had lots of shippers in universe, as lampshaded in the Leviathan books where people like Steve Trevor admit to manipulating them together in order to keep both in check, particularly Talia who was shown to be damn near unstoppable when indifferent to Bruce.)

The other major thing to consider is Strange thinks that the only way for Batman to be happy is for not just BatCat to happen, but the Robins have got to go. If you pay attention to all the comics referenced in the BatCat memories, you'll catch that they all involve Selina either endangering Dick and Jason, or trying to convince Bruce to choose her above them. Readers talk about how evil the Joker was for erasing Selina's memories, however, in the story it is unequivocally presented as for the best since she was pushing for Bruce to get rid of Jason in favor of her.

Note which Robin was the first to have his relationship with Batman annihilated due to BatCat. 

Dick's more difficult to get rid of, but again, as constant readers we will remember the Gotham Knights storyline where Bruce purposely created false memories in order to defeat strange. His trigger to return to normal was Dick's belief in the cause. Yes, there was a bit of a head injury and drugging in that story.

Tim's not relevant as by the time he showed up DC had decided to redeem Selina. He's never been a threat to the relationship, indeed, he's a shipper. Hence his being out of the King series except for being presented as the most loyal, loving, faithful son despite getting punched in the face.

Damian is the biggest threat to the BatCat relationship. In fact, as the minor child, in real life he has full veto power over the engagement and marriage as any good single parent will tell you. He's also been shown by multiple writers to be Bruce's actual sanity and morality leash, as well as someone who more than any other Robin or love interest brings light and joy into Bruce's life while making him a better detective and person.

So that all in mind, go back to Nightmares and consider the addition of Thomas Wayne to the story. Thomas keeps considering Bruce a child. In all fairness, Bruce with Selina acts like a not particularly mature, hormone addled, sex obsessed teenager. It's why so many people relate to him, and think that King has portrayed a deep and meaningful adult relationship despite the fact that on the Hallmark channel or in a romance novel, the reader/observers would be catching all the red flags and looking for the actual love interest to show up. (A rom com or movie obviously would follow King's plot and ideas as those are written by and for men who, as everyone knows, aren't as critical as adult women.) Thomas has a weird psycho sexual relationship with Selina and, apparently, Bruce. He has motive to eliminate Damian from the picture as: a) Martha is canonically the BruTalia shipper and shot Selina, and b) he's killed Talia and then was shown to be a bs parent by world's worst dad Ra's who gladly gave his life for Talia. Which all of us Damian fans should have snagged onto as Ra's's sacrifice mirrors Bruce's efforts to raise Damian.

Onto Pyg. Pyg is Damian's villain. Pyg targets children and gets unpredictable when Damian is dead. Pyg talked to Batwoman about Damian's death and how he wanted drugs to deal with it. Pyg actively stalks Damian in and out of uniform. His other appearances are in locations where Damian, if you're paying attention,  is also at in unrelated stories. Pyg talks about Damian's "dating" life. Pyg has nicknames for Damian. Pyg literally knows everything about Damian and has created Dollotrons based on Damian, with Pyg's favorite being dressed in the short shorts.

Pyg is the definition of a parent's worst nightmare.

Which is why that nightmare is so jarringly different from the rest. It's an adult fear. Everything else with Selina is an adolescent fear. Being dumped with no explanation? By the time someone is 25 it's happened multiple times. An engagement called off? Ditto for many people. By Bruce's age, unless there's outside pressures, his reactions to Selina are unrealistic and unreasonable. Heck, he's been engaged twice before since Damian's introduction in universe, and one of those women was murdered.

Knowing, but not addressing, that your child has a sexual predator and serial killer stalking them? That's high stakes poker compared to the Candyland game of BatCat.

It's also his subconscious screaming that everything is wrong, and just like the Bruce Babar from Seely's story he's going to lose his son if he doesn't stop focusing on Selina. Which,  we the Constant Readers, know is happening as external forces coupled with emotional abuse and neglect are destroying the foundations of Bruce and Damian's relationship.

Of course, that all hinges on the massive assumption that Tom King is actually a good writer and everything he's been pushing about Bruce and Selina is a lie and what the attentive readers (not fans, but the critical and experienced readers) are reading is the real story. It would also explain why Kiteman has become relevant, as it will be Bruce's own actions and unhealthily absorbed relationship with Selina that will result in Damian's becoming lost and outside of Bruce's abilities to bring back.

Which depending on how you feel about the second annual and BatCat, where Jean Paul is present but not Damian, has been presented as for the best.

To summarize: Bruce has realized he's in a lotus eating machine and immediately grabs onto the worst possible connections he knows of in order to trigger the hormones necessary to escape. Obviously it doesn't work, so he has to tone it down repeatedly by fixating on childish concerns: a romantic relationship with his own stalker, and thank you Tom King for making Selina Kyle into someone who decided as a child to marry Bruce Wayne and became Catwoman to achieve that goal.

----------


## Darkspellmaster

> Okay. Let's pretend that Tom King is actually a good writer and that the story is actually deep and meaningful not "Batman loves Catwoman."
> 
> Nightmares makes sense if it's an homage to the Batman: TAS episode, the Superman/Batman issue, and Final Crisis where the villains trap Bruce in a lotus eating machine and attempt to make him happy. Remember, this was both Bane's and Thomas's stated goals. Also remember that Hugo Strange is the one who created Gotham Girl and sent her to Batman, as well as Gotham Girl triggering his first reaching out and then proposing to Selina.
> 
> Hugo Strange is the biggest in universe BatCat shipper, and for most of comics history, the only one besides Talia. (BruTalia had lots of shippers in universe, as lampshaded in the Leviathan books where people like Steve Trevor admit to manipulating them together in order to keep both in check, particularly Talia who was shown to be damn near unstoppable when indifferent to Bruce.)
> 
> The other major thing to consider is Strange thinks that the only way for Batman to be happy is for not just BatCat to happen, but the Robins have got to go. If you pay attention to all the comics referenced in the BatCat memories, you'll catch that they all involve Selina either endangering Dick and Jason, or trying to convince Bruce to choose her above them. Readers talk about how evil the Joker was for erasing Selina's memories, however, in the story it is unequivocally presented as for the best since she was pushing for Bruce to get rid of Jason in favor of her.
> 
> Note which Robin was the first to have his relationship with Batman annihilated due to BatCat. 
> ...


Can I just say that end result is creepy as all hell. Dealing with adult fears and Bruce having to come to terms with a maturing Damian would be interesting, but this is some grad A weirdness.

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/yosuga0101

----------


## CPSparkles



----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/coco27829747

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/dami_boi

----------


## Ansa

"Okay. Let's pretend that Tom King is actually a good writer and that the story is actually deep and meaningful not "Batman loves Catwoman."
I applaud your efforts.

Everytime someone earnestly tries to convince me that King's writing is "totally deep" and that I'm missing subtle hints and references to other stories that are actually genius I have to laugh, especially if we're talking about arcs after #50.
Just take a look at how much he got wrong about the Flashpoint Universe. Penguin wasn't killed, he managed the casinos Thomas owned, Thomas used different methods than Bruce, but he wasn't insane, Ra's would have had a difficult time carrying Talia's corpse into the Nain Pit, because he had the body of a child, Thomas didn't lose Selina, she was only crippled after getting shot by the Joker, Alfred was never a butler in Flashpoint, he died as a secret agent...

Long story short: King sucks at doing research.
If  someone thinks something in his writing in Batman feels off, it's more likely that he just didn't bother to put more work into it than King trying to pass along a secret message like Selina and Bruce's relationship actually being toxic.

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/TheBurnham

----------


## Ansa

> https://twitter.com/TheBurnham


Oh no, Lego Damian is suffering from the same illness that had befallen Tim in the Batman: Arkham Knight game.

Nice drawing, even if the subject is a little grim for Lego.

----------


## CPSparkles

> "Okay. Let's pretend that Tom King is actually a good writer and that the story is actually deep and meaningful not "Batman loves Catwoman."
> I applaud your efforts.
> 
> Everytime someone earnestly tries to convince me that King's writing is "totally deep" and that I'm missing subtle hints and references to other stories that are actually genius I have to laugh, especially if we're talking about arcs after #50.
> Just take a look at how much he got wrong about the Flashpoint Universe. Penguin wasn't killed, he managed the casinos Thomas owned, Thomas used different methods than Bruce, but he wasn't insane, Ra's would have had a difficult time carrying Talia's corpse into the Nain Pit, because he had the body of a child, Thomas didn't lose Selina, she was only crippled after getting shot by the Joker, Alfred was never a butler in Flashpoint, he died as a secret agent...
> 
> Long story short: King sucks at doing research.
> If  someone think something in his writing feels off, it's more likely that he just didn't bother to put more work into it than King trying to pass along a secret message like Selina and Bruce's relationship actually being toxic.


I think he does research/knows the comics but then does what suits his story.

He could have done so much with BatCat but he ended up ruining it. Selina is Bruce's most popular and recognised love interest how do you make  their love feel so forced?

Why the need to alter past canon just to validate their relationship? No one ever doubted they have feelings for each other.
Why make it co-dependant? Why have a questionable proposal where he was manipulated when every other time Bruce has proposed it was of his own volition?

Why complicate something that's so easy and that's been done multiple times before? BatCat's love should be easy to write. There's so much material to guide the writer. smh.

Batman didn't seem happy either. Felt more like he was in daze/drugged and so robotic. It was strange especially when you have Synder's Batman running along side. Synder's Batman positively glows whenever he's with Jarro. That is a happy Batman.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Oh no, Lego Damian is suffering from the same illness that had befallen Tim in the Batman: Arkham Knight game.
> 
> Nice drawing, even if the subject is a little grim for Lego.


Ikr. Lego Heretic giving Lego Damian the Inc treatment  :Smile:

----------


## Ansa

> I think he does research/knows the comics but then does what suits his story.


I'm serious about him not doing enough research. He doesn't even remember his own writing, something he admitted himself.

"King claims that he rarely outlines, proceeding on the assumption that what he forgets wasn't worth remembering in the first place.  https://www.google.com/amp/s/slate.c...-king-work.amp

----------


## Ansa

I was pleasantly suprised to see not only Ace but also Titus in Detective Comics #1018. Batcow had an appearance in the previous arc, so the only ones still missing are Alfred the cat and Goliath.

I doubt we're going to get it, but a story with Alfred the cat and Damian would be nice. The cat was a gift from Alfred to Damian and the cat is obviously named after him.

----------


## Restingvoice

> I was pleasantly suprised to see not only Ace but also Titus in Detective Comics #1018. Batcow had an appearance in the previous arc, so the only ones still missing are Alfred the cat and Goliath.
> 
> I doubt we're going to get it, but a story with Alfred the cat and Damian would be nice. The cat was a gift from Alfred to Damian and the cat is obviously named after him.


There's also the dragon he got from Japan
Everyone always forgets about that one
Nobody's told a story about the dragon yet beyond when he got it
Guess they don't wanna deal with it
How the heck did Batman approve of keeping that in the cave anyway
Maybe he didn't keep it and send it away because it's too big

----------


## Ansa

> There's also the dragon he got from Japan
> Everyone always forgets about that one
> Nobody's told a story about the dragon yet beyond when he got it
> Guess they don't wanna deal with it
> How the heck did Batman approve of keeping that in the cave anyway
> Maybe he didn't keep it and send it away because it's too big


I remember the dragon, I just don't count him as a real pet for reasons you already mentioned.
Better question: How did they get him to Gotham and into the cave in the first place? The dragon was huge.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I remember the dragon, I just don't count him as a real pet for reasons you already mentioned.
> Better question: How did they get him to Gotham and into the cave in the first place? The dragon was huge.


The same reason why people always claim Batman wins; prep time.

----------


## Restingvoice

> I remember the dragon, I just don't count him as a real pet for reasons you already mentioned.
> Better question: How did they get him to Gotham and into the cave in the first place? The dragon was huge.


They ride it home or let it fly beside them while they're on the Batplane, and then let it to the cave through the rocket hangar, I suppose 

At night

----------


## dietrich

Poor Jerry the Turkey. Everyone always forgets Jerry and wasn't there a Goat that he wanted to take home in a story once? I remember a Goat.


The Dragon has a name 
[can't remember it right now] but saw a post by Lanzing [the Dragon's Creator] and he too is lamenting the lack of her presence in stories or the Batcave

----------


## dietrich

> Sideshow Robin Premuim Format figure hybrid Damian with Katana [swap head of Tim ]


This is pretty neat. so you get a choice.

----------


## dietrich

> 


This made me hungry. I want a Burger

----------


## dietrich

> https://twitter.com/TheBurnham


This is sweet. Burnham has a wicked sense of humour.

----------


## dietrich

https://twitter.com/DESAWORKS

----------


## adrikito

Happy New Year to everyone..

Is really weird not see any image in the first post..




> Anyone else notice that Damian from the Harley Quin show looked a lot like Dick from TT? maybe that's why I like HQ@s Robin so much.


Same Design. Different name.. 
*
Same Grayson personality? I don´t know*. I am tired of Harley to see her serie..

----------


## adrikito

Hopes for Damian this year:

-TERRIFICS mentioned MAYA DUDCARD.. I need to see her again with him.
-Teen Titans.. I would like to continue with Djinn in the team(after glass leaves the book) and maybe Emiko. Maybe even have Aqualad again.
-Slade and Damian interacting again.. But maybe without Priest maybe is one bad idea.  :Frown: 
-Some Damian interactions with Dick, Bruce and Jason..
-I want to see GOLIATH again too.

----------


## Arctic Cyclist

> Poor Jerry the Turkey. Everyone always forgets Jerry and wasn't there a Goat that he wanted to take home in a story once? I remember a Goat.
> 
> 
> The Dragon has a name 
> [can't remember it right now] but saw a post by Lanzing [the Dragon's Creator] and he too is lamenting the lack of her presence in stories or the Batcave


The goat was in the Azreal 2009 series back when Bruce was dead and Tim was at the start of his 3 week search for Bruce. Dick did not let him keep it.

Titus was the start of Damian's Gotham pets. I won't say his animal hoard though, kid's an al Ghul. Animal hoarding is in his blood. Remember, Ra's has killed people for animal cruelty or killing one of his pets. Talia had the little dude who's in the current Harley Quinn cartoon hung out to dry because he killed Catman's lions after Catman insulted them and the secret society. It's an al Ghul thing to adore and be adored by animals, all animals. Plants too.

Personally, I want to know what happened to the bonsai plants in Damian's room after he died. I hope Ra's stole those too when he stole Damian's body. Bruce and Alfred struggle with keeping humans and animals alive, you can't trust them with bonsai plants. Bonsai is more demanding than a a dog, and any bonsai person will tell you (and current science supports this) that the plants are particular about their people. They will die with the wrong caretaker, regardless of how skilled and attentive that human is.

There's no way those plants survived Bruce and Alfred.

----------


## dietrich

> The goat was in the Azreal 2009 series back when Bruce was dead and Tim was at the start of his 3 week search for Bruce. Dick did not let him keep it.
> 
> Titus was the start of Damian's Gotham pets. I won't say his animal hoard though, kid's an al Ghul. Animal hoarding is in his blood. Remember, Ra's has killed people for animal cruelty or killing one of his pets. Talia had the little dude who's in the current Harley Quinn cartoon hung out to dry because he killed Catman's lions after Catman insulted them and the secret society. It's an al Ghul thing to adore and be adored by animals, all animals. Plants too.
> 
> Personally, I want to know what happened to the bonsai plants in Damian's room after he died. I hope Ra's stole those too when he stole Damian's body. Bruce and Alfred struggle with keeping humans and animals alive, you can't trust them with bonsai plants. Bonsai is more demanding than a a dog, and any bonsai person will tell you (and current science supports this) that the plants are particular about their people. They will die with the wrong caretaker, regardless of how skilled and attentive that human is.
> 
> There's no way those plants survived Bruce and Alfred.


No wonder Damian has a rapport with Ivy  :Smile:  Eco Warriors

----------


## Ansa

> Hopes for Damian this year:
> 
> -TERRIFICS mentioned MAYA DUDCARD.. I need to see her again with him.
> -Teen Titans.. I would like to continue with Djinn in the team(after glass leaves the book) and maybe Emiko. Maybe even have Aqualad again.
> -Slade and Damian interacting again.. But maybe without Priest maybe is one bad idea. 
> -Some Damian interactions with Dick, Bruce and Jason..
> -I want to see GOLIATH again too.


Writers aknowledging that yes, Damian has had friends for years would be nice indeed. I miss Maya. Goliath needs to come back too.

The batfam needs start interacting more in general. All the shit Bruce pulled for the past two years makes me wonder why they still answer when he calls. DC, remind me again why they are called batFAMILY instead of just making alibi posts on twitter using panels from several years ago!

----------


## dietrich

Speaking of Damian's pets I wonder if any of them will make an appearance in the Super pets movie?

I hope Titus and Goliath or Bat cow makes an appearance

Ace isn't a crime fighting Dog in the comics [his retired now], has a cringy name and enough said about that mask mussel he's forced to wear the better but he is better know to casuals so DC will likely still use him.

I just hope they use other pets. 

They might just go the way the Toys went and make Ace Damian's which I really hope they don't. Damian is an animal lover and would never force a dog to wear that mask nor would he ever give a dog such a lame name so I hope he isn't associate with the concept of the Bat Hound.

----------


## Ansa

> Speaking of Damian's pets I wonder if any of them will make an appearance in the Super pets movie?
> 
> I hope Titus and Goliath or Bat cow makes an appearance
> 
> Ace isn't a crime fighting Dog in the comics [his retired now], has a cringy name and enough said about that mask mussel he's forced to wear the better but he is better know to casuals so DC will likely still use him.
> 
> I just hope they use other pets. 
> 
> They might just go the way the Toys went and make Ace Damian's which I really hope they don't. Damian is an animal lover and would never force a dog to wear that mask nor would he ever give a dog such a lame name so I hope he isn't associate with the concept of the Bat Hound.


20200107_174157.jpg

"She stared right in the face of evil and didn't blink. She's not just the cow we deserve. But the cow we need."

Dick, Tim, Luke, Cass, Damian etc. can all forget about taking over the cowl from Bruce, she is his only true heir  :Wink: 

I hope she makes an appearance.

----------


## dietrich

> 20200107_174157.jpg
> 
> "She stared right in the face of evil and didn't blink. She's not just the cow we deserve. But the cow we need."
> 
> Dick, Tim, Luke, Cass, Damian etc. can all forget about taking over the cowl from Bruce, she is his only true heir 
> 
> I hope she makes an appearance.


she's pretty awesome.

----------


## CPSparkles

Bat Famialy




https://twitter.com/karo__Dc

Speaking of Damian's sister





https://twitter.com/gothamtwinks

----------


## CPSparkles

I bet we'll see some of Damian's pets in the movie since they are part of the super pets force along since Streaky and Detective Chimp who isn't really a pet

----------


## CPSparkles

Mission Time








https://twitter.com/gothamtwinks

----------


## Ansa

> I bet we'll see some of Damian's pets in the movie since they are part of the super pets force along since Streaky and Detective Chimp who isn't really a pet


Forget Teen Titans, Damian will be the leader of the super pets from now on.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Forget Teen Titans, Damian will be the leader of the super pets from now on.


 :Smile:  Ideal job for Damian and with cuter fluffier team.

----------


## Ansa

> Ideal job for Damian and with cuter fluffier team.


They are willing to fight against half-kryptonians without betting an eye and helped in defeating the son of Darkseid, they are loyal and fearsome warriors  :Wink:

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/huyandere

----------


## CPSparkles



----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/OtterTheAuthor

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/akkiyamia








https://twitter.com/kurachi93

----------


## dietrich

> Bat Famialy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/karo__Dc
> 
> Speaking of Damian's sister
> 
> ...


These images are cool though I'm not a fan of cereal eating Dick

----------


## dietrich

> 


Such bright eyes on Damian in that first solo pic and yet another lil lads comics. Always nice

----------


## Jackalope89

Its fanmade comics like Lil Lads and JL8 that keep the adventure alive while DC themselves keep shooting their own feet.

----------


## Ansa

> Its fanmade comics like Lil Lads and JL8 that keep the adventure alive while DC themselves keep shooting their own feet.


I don't read Superman or LoS, did aging up Jon finally pay off in some way?

----------


## Restingvoice

> I don't read Superman or LoS, did aging up Jon finally pay off in some way?


Define paying off

The main purpose of aging up Jon is to make him join and be the main attraction of Legion of Superheroes while at the same time provide a fanservice call back to the old days when Clark joined Legion as a Superboy (and later Superman in 5G)

Bendis made Jor-El return with no explanation even when the last time we saw him he's taken away by Dr. Manhattan for revealing too much to Clark

The purpose of his return is to take Jon to his place, some kind of New Krypton, to learn about Krypton culture
The purpose of that is so when he tried to return, he got lost in space for 7 years and return as a 17-year-old

Once that story's done, Jor-El is kidnapped again by Dr. Manhattan and sent back in time to Krypton's destruction, which I assume to be where he supposed to go when he was taken by Manhattan the first time

In the meantime, Clark was missing Jon and Lois dearly but Lois returned on her own because Jon is in good hands. The hands of the grandfather who, in his last appearance before his return was trying to make Clark and Jon quit Earth because he's rescued from Krypton by Manhattan to be placed on Earth at its worst so he lost hope in humanity and convince Clark to do the same.

Then once Jon return as a teenager, after a few bouts of awkward moments, I miss you, I miss your development and all that, for a short arc, the Legion came from the future to offer membership, and after some contemplation, they decided to let him go because Lois inexplicably feels Jon doesn't need them anymore

and off to the future he goes, landing in Planet Gotham and shenanigans ensue.

----------


## Ansa

> Define paying off
> 
> The main purpose of aging up Jon is to make him join and be the main attraction of Legion of Superheroes while at the same time provide a fanservice call back to the old days when Clark joined Legion as a Superboy (and later Superman in 5G)
> 
> Bendis made Jor-El return with no explanation even when the last time we saw him he's taken away by Dr. Manhattan for revealing too much to Clark
> 
> The purpose of his return is to take Jon to his place, some kind of New Krypton, to learn about Krypton culture
> The purpose of that is so when he tried to return, he got lost in space for 7 years and return as a 17-year-old
> 
> ...


I do remember reading about some of that stuff.
I meant it more in a "was aging up Jon worth screwing up the Superfamily and Super Sons dynamic?" way.

----------


## Restingvoice

> I do remember reading about some of that stuff.
> I meant it more in a "was aging up Jon worth screwing up the Superfamily and Super Sons dynamic?" way.


I guess it depends on how much you're interested in Bendis Legion because it's not even the original Legion... and 5G

My answer's a flat no

----------


## dietrich

> I do remember reading about some of that stuff.
> I meant it more in a "was aging up Jon worth screwing up the Superfamily and Super Sons dynamic?" way.


Most comments from Legion fans point to a resounding NO. It doesn't help that Bendis changed continuity to give Clark's role in the history of it's creation to Jon. That was off putting.

Sales wise Legion 1 didn't perform on the level of SS and the Superman books aren't performing as well as under Tomasi with young Jon.

DC lost a ton of goodwill with ageing him up which they've done nothing to get back.

It has paid off with Conner fans since since Jon is gone there's a void for a Superboy for him to fill.
It might have some pay=off storywise with the current identity reveal arc and with 5G

----------


## Rac7d*

> Most comments from Legion fans point to a resounding NO. It doesn't help that Bendis changed continuity to give Clark's role in the history of it's creation to Jon. That was off putting.
> 
> Sales wise Legion 1 didn't perform on the level of SS and the Superman books aren't performing as well as under Tomasi with young Jon.
> 
> 
> 
> DC lost a ton of goodwill with ageing him up which they've done nothing to get back.
> 
> It has paid off with Conner fans since since Jon is gone there's a void for a Superboy for him to fill.
> It might have some pay=off storywise with the current identity reveal arc and with 5G


Isn’t this current Connor like 22 not a boy

----------


## dietrich

> Isn’t this current Connor like 22 not a boy


I'm not sure. I thought he was a teenager.

----------


## dietrich

https://midnightcalibration.tumblr.com





https://dark-winged.tumblr.com




https://dkwayne03.tumblr.com

----------


## Ansa

> Most comments from Legion fans point to a resounding NO. It doesn't help that Bendis changed continuity to give Clark's role in the history of it's creation to Jon. That was off putting.
> 
> Sales wise Legion 1 didn't perform on the level of SS and the Superman books aren't performing as well as under Tomasi with young Jon.
> 
> DC lost a ton of goodwill with ageing him up which they've done nothing to get back.
> 
> It has paid off with Conner fans since since Jon is gone there's a void for a Superboy for him to fill.
> It might have some pay=off storywise with the current identity reveal arc and with 5G


You're probably right about the goodwill thing. I don't read anything with Bendis name on it anymore. Aging up Jon made me not pick up Superman, making Tim Robin again with no explanation in YJ was weird and I gave up on Event Leviathan after issue two and only followed the story through reviews. I'm not familiar with the Legion so I wasn't interested in that book in the first place.

Is Bendis doing any fans of Tim's generation a favour? I remember people being really excited when the first issue came out but as far as I know the sales have dropped a lot and the story seems to go nowhere, he just keeps adding more members/guests to the book. Conner seems to be missing in the multiverse most of the time.

Have Conner and Clark even met since Conner came back?

----------


## dietrich

https://tmblr.co/mPdyXjxDcpeWY9MH2L2buWA





https://dark-winged.tumblr.com

----------


## dietrich

> You're probably right about the goodwill thing. I don't read anything with Bendis name on it anymore. Aging up Jon made me not pick up Superman, making Tim Robin again with no explanation in YJ was weird and I gave up on Event Leviathan after issue two and only followed the story through reviews. I'm not familiar with the Legion so I wasn't interested in that book in the first place.
> 
> Is Bendis doing any fans of Tim's generation a favour? I remember people being really excited when the first issue came out but as far as I know the sales have dropped a lot and the story seems to go nowhere, he just keeps adding more members/guests to the book. Conner seems to be missing in the multiverse most of the time.
> 
> Have Conner and Clark even met since Conner came back?


I follow Action and YJ. Dropped Superman and have never been a fan of LOS.

Action is good but YJ feels like it's going nowhere. I was expecting more but the story is pretty underwhelming. The characters aren't fleshed out and he keeps adding more. I would have dropped it but I want to see what he does with Sideways and Aqualad.

I don't think a lot of fans were happy with how he handled Tim's identity change and fans on social media [away from comic forums] seem to dislike the fact that the core 4 aren't getting focus and the use of Steph [I've enjoyed Steph so not an issue for me]

There's a lot of comparisons to the old YJ title which I feel stops fans from enjoying this for what it is. I don't blame fans for comparing since the current title leaned heavily on nostalgia in it's promotions.

I think YJ is going to be part of an upcoming arc in Superman where Clark and Conner will interact. I saw something on twitter

----------


## Darkcrusade25

> You're probably right about the goodwill thing. I don't read anything with Bendis name on it anymore. Aging up Jon made me not pick up Superman, making Tim Robin again with no explanation in YJ was weird and I gave up on Event Leviathan after issue two and only followed the story through reviews. I'm not familiar with the Legion so I wasn't interested in that book in the first place.
> 
> Is Bendis doing any fans of Tim's generation a favour? I remember people being really excited when the first issue came out but as far as I know the sales have dropped a lot and the story seems to go nowhere, he just keeps adding more members/guests to the book. Conner seems to be missing in the multiverse most of the time.
> 
> Have Conner and Clark even met since Conner came back?


Tbh for me when it comes to Tim’s gen I’m just glad Bendis hasn’t butchered their characterization. I haven’t even given thought to the plot cuz of that. I am still scarred from N52 TT to start complaining about plot when atleast the characterization is on point.

But yeah haven’t seen Bendis really hitting it on any corners of DC so far. 

Kinda don’t wanna see how he writes Damian in LOSH #3.

----------


## dietrich

Damian and Tim









Damian




https://doc-squash.tumblr.com

----------


## dietrich

> Tbh for me when it comes to Tim’s gen I’m just glad Bendis hasn’t butchered their characterization. I haven’t even given thought to the plot cuz of that. I am still scarred from N52 TT to start complaining about plot when atleast the characterization is on point.
> 
> But yeah haven’t seen Bendis really hitting it on any corners of DC so far. 
> 
> Kinda don’t wanna see how he writes Damian in LOSH #3.


I'm dreading it. I don't follow the title but I know I won't be able to resist checking it out.

----------


## Ansa

> Kinda don’t wanna see how he writes Damian in LOSH #3.


I remember reading the solicitation for that one and going "Why the hell would anyone who likes Damian want to pick this up after reading that?"

----------


## Restingvoice

> Isnt this current Connor like 22 not a boy


He's married but I don't know the age




> Have Conner and Clark even met since Conner came back?


Conner mentioned he stayed in Smallville and with The Kents being alive again, I imagine he did, but as of on-page, he only just came back from another world

----------


## CPSparkles

SuperKiddos by Sonia Liao out now to buy Rated G for all ages




48 full-color pages of Supersons + Colin Wilkes adventure! Printed at standard size (7x10.5) Includes the Valentines Special and all extras. Rated G for Everyone.

The Supersons meet a foe that may split them apart... Meep Meeps! When Robin gets kidnapped, his friend Colin must team up with Superboy to get him back.


http://sonialiao.storenvy.com/collec...64-superkiddos

----------


## CPSparkles

More sample pages

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/winterRimyeah



Maya and Kathy




https://twitter.com/zatou_79ha






https://twitter.com/e_noeno

----------


## CPSparkles

Big Bro and Lil Bro at the fair





https://twitter.com/vagusell

With Super moms





https://twitter.com/last_stardust00






https://twitter.com/e_noeno

----------


## CPSparkles

> Tbh for me when it comes to Tims gen Im just glad Bendis hasnt butchered their characterization. I havent even given thought to the plot cuz of that. I am still scarred from N52 TT to start complaining about plot when atleast the characterization is on point.
> 
> But yeah havent seen Bendis really hitting it on any corners of DC so far. 
> 
> Kinda dont wanna see how he writes Damian in LOSH #3.


This is pretty much me too. The characters feel like their old selves. I just wish the book was focused on the core 4

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/4int5

----------


## Ansa

> I'm dreading it. I don't follow the title but I know I won't be able to resist checking it out.


Maybe you can tell me how it was after it's out. Damian in Leviathan was...I don't know...strange? And the panels I saw from Superman 16 (or whatever issue it was) made him really ooc. It looked cute but it wasn't Damian. His voice was all wrong.

----------


## Blue22

> SuperKiddos by Sonia Liao out now to buy Rated G for all ages
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 48 full-color pages of Supersons + Colin Wilkes adventure! Printed at standard size (7x10.5) Includes the Valentines Special and all extras. Rated G for Everyone.
> 
> The Supersons meet a foe that may split them apart... Meep Meeps! When Robin gets kidnapped, his friend Colin must team up with Superboy to get him back.
> 
> ...


Ooooooooh Myyyyyyyyyy Gooooooooood!

This is great!

----------


## Blue22

> I'm dreading it. I don't follow the title but I know I won't be able to resist checking it out.


I've pretty much made up my mind that I'm not even gonna read it. I'm giving Legion three issues to impress me but that one, specifically, I'm skipping and letting issue #4 be it's third chance. I just....can't with how Bendis writes Damian. He understands him about as well as whoever wrote him in that Ninja Batman movie.

----------


## dietrich

> I've pretty much made up my mind that I'm not even gonna read it. I'm giving Legion three issues to impress me but that one, specifically, I'm skipping and letting issue #4 be it's third chance. I just....can't with how Bendis writes Damian. He understands him about as well as whoever wrote him in that Ninja Batman movie.


Batman Ninja did a much much better job than Bendis ever has. Damian was just cheerful in BN.

Under Bendis he's just cringy, talks too much [most of what he says is pointless drivel] and tries too hard to be funny/quipy.

----------


## dietrich

> Ooooooooh Myyyyyyyyyy Gooooooooood!
> 
> This is great!


Yep. like Jackalope89 said, we have to depend on fans to give us the content we want.

----------


## CPSparkles

DC’s Top 50 Characters (totaled over 12-year span)

Damian's at no 25.

Impressive enough just to see him make the top 25 but even moreso:

For a Character that was introduced in 2006
Has only been Batman;s sidekick in one writers run on the title and then half of Tomasi's B&R run
Was not used or only ahd a few appearance in the Bat verse titles in new 52 after Tomasi [he wasn't in batman eternal and was only in 4 or so issues of BRE
Was dead for a short while
is very divisive
Has been operating as a solo hero in titles that don't have the value adding Batman name or connection [he has benefited from a decent amount guest spots in popular titles]



[ the list also boost several Bat family members. Great to see Steph, Tim and Jason and Nightwing is obviously most popular Bat son 


https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/co...d_over_12year/

----------


## Fergus

> DC’s Top 50 Characters (totaled over 12-year span)
> 
> Damian's at no 25.
> 
> Impressive enough just to see him make the top 25 but even moreso:
> 
> For a Character that was introduced in 2006
> Has only been Batman;s sidekick in one writers run on the title and then half of Tomasi's B&R run
> Was not used or only ahd a few appearance in the Bat verse titles in new 52 after Tomasi [he wasn't in batman eternal and was only in 4 or so issues of BRE
> ...


With all the factors you listed That a great position though the poll reflect opinions on this site not DC fandom.

The character gets a lot of hate on this forum so surprised he's on there. Of all the Robins Damian and Duke get the most hate though fans seem to have finally accepted Duke. There's less comments hating on the character

----------


## Rac7d*

Is Colin real?

----------


## Blue22

He was before Flashpoint. And he was a pretty interesting character with a nice backstory, even before meeting Damian. He was just...painfully underused. 

The first time Damian makes a friend his own age and the most exposure the poor kid gets is in Lil Gotham.

----------


## Rac7d*

> He was before Flashpoint. And he was a pretty interesting character with a nice backstory, even before meeting Damian. He was just...painfully underused. 
> 
> The first time Damian makes a friend his own age and the most exposure the poor kid gets is in Lil Gotham.


Well I bought fan comic

----------


## Blue22

How legal is it for those comics to even be sold?

----------


## Restingvoice

Technically it's not but DC usually doesn't care unless it's too public, like that one, actual, real-life, not online art gallery that features gay Batman and Robin (Dick) paintings a few years back. They got the cease and desist. Fan contents for fans are usually ignored.

----------


## Digifiend

> More sample pages


Wrong and wrong. The first Superboy was Clark himself, so Conner was second and Jon is third. And Dick isn't the second Batman either, he's the third, Azrael was the second one. At least they put (fifth?) when counting the Robins, acknowledging Spoiler!

----------


## Rac7d*

> Wrong and wrong. The first Superboy was Clark himself, so Conner was second and Jon is third. And Dick isn't the second Batman either, he's the third, Azrael was the second one. At least they put (fifth?) when counting the Robins, acknowledging Spoiler!


Wouldn’t Jon be 4th? Dick should have been batman number 2, and why count stephanie

----------


## Rac7d*

> He was before Flashpoint. And he was a pretty interesting character with a nice backstory, even before meeting Damian. He was just...painfully underused. 
> 
> The first time Damian makes a friend his own age and the most exposure the poor kid gets is in Lil Gotham.


So he has not been seen since 2011

----------


## Fergus

> So he has not been seen since 2011


No but he's back this year in Once Upon a crime by Nguyen

----------


## Fergus

> Wrong and wrong. The first Superboy was Clark himself, so Conner was second and Jon is third. And Dick isn't the second Batman either, he's the third, Azrael was the second one. At least they put (fifth?) when counting the Robins, acknowledging Spoiler!


Az and Clark don't count for the fans who buy this. The Supersons casual fans don't know or care about AZ or Superboy Clark.

if DC writers  can make mistakes you'd think fans can be allowed the some slack.

This looks High quality though.

----------


## Fergus

> How legal is it for those comics to even be sold?


DC's really leaving a lot of cash n the table with what they could be putting out. The amount of unlicensed clothing, comics, phone cases, figures and accessories they could be making money on but instead it's the resource fans that pocket the cash.

here in the UK I don't even think I've seen any Dc comic character themed clothing for sale [aside from the odd tee-shirt with  Superman or Batman printed on it.

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/langbuliang

----------


## CPSparkles

> DC's really leaving a lot of cash n the table with what they could be putting out. The amount of unlicensed clothing, comics, phone cases, figures and accessories they could be making money on but instead it's the resource fans that pocket the cash.
> 
> here in the UK I don't even think I've seen any Dc comic character themed clothing for sale [aside from the odd tee-shirt with  Superman or Batman printed on it.


I agree. DC should offer or license more merch for fans. Even their Actions figures range is limited and new ones don't  come out often.

Yeah Batman, Superman and Nightwing fans get more choice since they are always included in ever line of toys

----------


## CPSparkles

> Well I bought fan comic


I ordered one too  :Big Grin:

----------


## CPSparkles

Damian running on a Rope by Ryann Winn for Digital PlayGround

 

https://twitter.com/ryanwinn

----------


## Rac7d*

What issues is Colin from

----------


## dietrich

> Damian running on a Rope by Ryann Winn for Digital PlayGround
> 
>  
> 
> https://twitter.com/ryanwinn


He's running on a rope? That's  impressive.

Is this balancing feat thank's to Dick teaching him some tricks or Talia's training I wonder?

----------


## dietrich

> What issues is Colin from


He hasn't been in any new seines but Dustin Nguyen [his creator] said he'll be returning in the upcoming Batman&co Title Once Upon A Crime.

Fairy Tales retold with a Twist featuring the characters from the Batverse/Gotham. The Book is Bruce trying to entertain a Sick Damian by telling him tales but with the Villains and heroes of Gotham in place of Fairy Tale characters and with twists.

Not sure when the title is due.

----------


## CPSparkles

> What issues is Colin from


He was introduced in Streets of Gotham issue 12

He was also in multiple issues of Lil Gotham.

----------


## CPSparkles

> He's running on a rope? That's  impressive.
> 
> Is this balancing feat thank's to Dick teaching him some tricks or Talia's training I wonder?


Both. He already had skills thanks to his training and DickBat thought him a few tricks during there time as B&R.

----------


## CPSparkles

> He hasn't been in any new seines but Dustin Nguyen [his creator] said he'll be returning in the upcoming Batman&co Title Once Upon A Crime.
> 
> Fairy Tales retold with a Twist featuring the characters from the Batverse/Gotham. The Book is Bruce trying to entertain a Sick Damian by telling him tales but with the Villains and heroes of Gotham in place of Fairy Tale characters and with twists.
> 
> Not sure when the title is due.


That's the unfortunate thing about so many writers creating original characters in their stories is that once they get abandoned by other writers.

There's no reason why other writers who handled Damian after Nyuyen couldn't have used Colin. 

Gleason I give a pass since RSOB was not set in Gotham but Tomasi and Percy acting like Damian didn't already have a pal wasn't cool.

A similar thing's happening to Maya now.

New characters created for specif story arcs or comic runs should have a better chance of sticking round since they are supporting cast so there's less risk.

However that's almost never the case. Why do writers almost always ignore original support characters from previous stories?  Acknowledging those interactions and reusing those character helps flesh out Damian's world.

One of the criticisms that often comes up with Damian is that writers regress or ignore the character's development.   Acknowledging past interactions and occasionally using original characters from previous runs helps avoid regression.

----------


## CPSparkles

This is titled Pyjama Party and that's all. There's no English translation.

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/glitter_dc

----------


## CPSparkles

This so so adorable and whiny.


https://twitter.com/i/status/1215407906914521096

----------


## Jackalope89

> This so so adorable and whiny.
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/status/1215407906914521096


When an animated series about Harley Quinn, of all people, can do a better Damian then Bendis...

Anyway, the above comics look good, but I have absolutely NO idea what they're saying. Not the first time I've had such a dilemma, and I doubt it will be the last.

----------


## dietrich

> That's the unfortunate thing about so many writers creating original characters in their stories is that once they get abandoned by other writers.
> 
> There's no reason why other writers who handled Damian after Nyuyen couldn't have used Colin. 
> 
> Gleason I give a pass since RSOB was not set in Gotham but Tomasi and Percy acting like Damian didn't already have a pal wasn't cool.
> 
> A similar thing's happening to Maya now.
> 
> New characters created for specif story arcs or comic runs should have a better chance of sticking round since they are supporting cast so there's less risk.
> ...


Percy's Damian saying he has no friends and the way Supersons presented Damian and Jon's road to friendship can be read as resetting to fans familiar with Colin, Maya and Suren. Since we know he has friend's.

It's not resetting since Damian has zero issues making friends is just that he doesn't. We've never seen him struggle to make friends or even have any problems with imitating contact and charming a stranger into a friend.
#

Percy's Damian was lying since Batman told him to go form the team [well manipulated] 

I have no idea why writers don't build on or develop his relationship with those characters or even use them in a different way. 

They only ever show up in stories by their creator and that's a shame.



I misread the comment I was responding to. Sorry Rac7d

----------


## dietrich

> When an animated series about Harley Quinn, of all people, can do a better Damian then Bendis...
> 
> Anyway, the above comics look good, but I have absolutely NO idea what they're saying. Not the first time I've had such a dilemma, and I doubt it will be the last.


Bendis just writes crappy teen speak except for Jon. Jon isn't as cringy as Damian and some of YJ.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Bendis just writes crappy teen speak except for Jon. Jon isn't as cringy as Damian and some of YJ.


I still refuse to acknowledge that character as Jon. That is Earth 3 Ultraboy, inserting himself deep within Earth 1/Prime/whatever and relaying information to the Crime Syndicate. Real Jon is stuck in the Daycare from Hell on Earth 3, with his powers neutralized, and dealing with annoyingly evil things. Like pencils that stay dull, frustratingly inaccurate educational materials, awful tasting healthy food, etc.

----------


## dietrich

> I still refuse to acknowledge that character as Jon. That is Earth 3 Ultraboy, inserting himself deep within Earth 1/Prime/whatever and relaying information to the Crime Syndicate. Real Jon is stuck in the Daycare from Hell on Earth 3, with his powers neutralized, and dealing with annoyingly evil things. Like pencils that stay dull, frustratingly inaccurate educational materials, awful tasting healthy food, etc.


lol. That's a story I'd like to read.

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/yosuga0101

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/langbuliang





https://twitter.com/redjack_036

----------


## CPSparkles

> When an animated series about Harley Quinn, of all people, can do a better Damian then Bendis...
> 
> Anyway, the above comics look good, but I have absolutely NO idea what they're saying. Not the first time I've had such a dilemma, and I doubt it will be the last.


I tried using translator but gave up cos in the end because it wasn't making much sense

----------


## CPSparkles

Cute





https://twitter.com/okayu0317

----------


## Ansa

> I still refuse to acknowledge that character as Jon. That is Earth 3 Ultraboy, inserting himself deep within Earth 1/Prime/whatever and relaying information to the Crime Syndicate. Real Jon is stuck in the Daycare from Hell on Earth 3, with his powers neutralized, and dealing with annoyingly evil things. Like pencils that stay dull, frustratingly inaccurate educational materials, awful tasting healthy food, etc.


I accept this as canon.

----------


## Ansa

> When an animated series about Harley Quinn, of all people, can do a better Damian then Bendis...


When an animated series about Harley Quinn, of all people, can do a better batdad than canon.

----------


## dietrich

The Harley series is a revelation. 

Well done and all the characters are enjoyable interpretations. Even occ take's like Damian and Jim are still easy to like.

I always wanted an R rated Archer style Agent 37 animated series. Hopefully with the success of Harley and HBO now in the family, WB will give more characters a shot.

 Supersons animated series. Yes.

----------


## dietrich

> ]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/e_noeno


This is Beautiful.

Thanks for all the amazing fan art Sparkles.

----------


## Restingvoice

> https://twitter.com/e_noeno


I had to double back and made sure because I thought white lilies symbolize death in Japan but no, they symbolize purity.

----------


## Fergus

> Cute
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/okayu0317


This Nice Damian being nice to young kids. 

He feels especially for young kids doesn't he? I recall a story where he was traumatised because the victims were young. Seeing to always be personally affected when the victims young.

----------


## Fergus

> This is Beautiful.
> 
> Thanks for all the amazing fan art Sparkles.


That piece in particular is very nice. Haunting.

----------


## Fergus

With the new Timeline now coming into effect in WW what do think Damian will be doing? He might not be effected because he is still a Teen.

----------


## dietrich

> 



The Supersons Band, will they ever jam again? Bendis ruined so much. No more Fortress of attitude
Damian now has no buddy at ReevesWest 
No more seeing the band jam with Alfred.

----------


## dietrich

> With the new Timeline now coming into effect in WW what do think Damian will be doing? He might not be effected because he is still a Teen.


I doubt it'll change much he's still a teenager and his team mates are about similar ages to him so TT will still be his team. I know that they teased Damian's sisters being needed to save him.

Perhaps everyone in the Batfamily is about to die which is why Superman is needs to find this unknown sister.

Alfred comes back as the Outsider and murder kills everyone of the Bats except for Damian as revenge for not being there to save him and the city.

Damian is spared because he was there fighting to save Gotham.

He then remembers that he was the one who told Bruce that it was safe to send in Damian so he kills himself for having endangered Damian.

Damian witnessing all this goes into a coma. The doctor need a family member to help wake him/force him to go back to the life he knew a la Bruce in the Nightwing Annual.

In all this Richard is still alive but he has a different life and is a different person.

----------


## Fergus

> I doubt it'll change much he's still a teenager and his team mates are about similar ages to him so TT will still be his team. I know that they teased Damian's sisters being needed to save him.
> 
> Perhaps everyone in the Batfamily is about to die which is why Superman is needs to find this unknown sister.
> 
> Alfred comes back as the Outsider and murder kills everyone of the Bats except for Damian as revenge for not being there to save him and the city.
> 
> Damian is spared because he was there fighting to save Gotham.
> 
> He then remembers that he was the one who told Bruce that it was safe to send in Damian so he kills himself for having endangered Damian.
> ...


That's quite the tale.

Richard even if he was called in wouldn't go. Traumatised by some lunatic in Gotham first calling him a faker, showing him a video him as Nightwing,getting shot in the head then nearly giving a heart attack by leaping out at him.

He has developed of strong phobia of people in comas and can't even approach a sleeping form without passing out.

Back on point are the TT the same age? If they are then that means they will be no big change.

I'm curious why his sister of all people will be required to save Damian. Superman going to seek her out means that there's some special significance to her that no one else in Gotham possesses.

Al Ghul blood.

----------


## dietrich

> That's quite the tale.
> 
> Richard even if he was called in wouldn't go. Traumatised by some lunatic in Gotham first calling him a faker, showing him a video him as Nightwing,getting shot in the head then nearly giving a heart attack by leaping out at him.
> 
> He has developed of strong phobia of people in comas and can't even approach a sleeping form without passing out.
> 
> Back on point are the TT the same age? If they are then that means they will be no big change.
> 
> I'm curious why his sister of all people will be required to save Damian. Superman going to seek her out means that there's some special significance to her that no one else in Gotham possesses.
> ...


Not sure how old the other TT members are but they can't be that far off from Damian.

It would be especially cruel after all the Batcat hoopla and the desperation of BatCat fans who are hoping they procreate if it was Al Ghul blood.

DC giving Batman a daughter in canon only for her to yet again be Talia's.

There's got to be something special and different about this Bruce's unknown daughter that Supes is forced to go looking for her in order to save Damian. Something that no one in the family can do and whatever it is isn't available in Gotham.

It does scream Al Ghul.

----------


## dietrich

I like that he's saying it through gritted teeth




https://twitter.com/frogsdontlie

----------


## dietrich

Damian Robin



https://twitter.com/DMK_1122




https://twitter.com/ringle_bingle

----------


## CPSparkles

> I had to double back and made sure because I thought white lilies symbolize death in Japan but no, they symbolize purity.


I wasn't aware that liles held so much symbolism. I just thought cool fan art  :Smile:

----------


## CPSparkles

> With the new Timeline now coming into effect in WW what do think Damian will be doing? He might not be effected because he is still a Teen.


I've not given it much thought. he would stii be a teen so TT but 5G is different right? That happens at the end of 6 years?

----------


## CPSparkles

> I doubt it'll change much he's still a teenager and his team mates are about similar ages to him so TT will still be his team. I know that they teased Damian's sisters being needed to save him.
> 
> Perhaps everyone in the Batfamily is about to die which is why Superman is needs to find this unknown sister.
> 
> Alfred comes back as the Outsider and murder kills everyone of the Bats except for Damian as revenge for not being there to save him and the city.
> 
> Damian is spared because he was there fighting to save Gotham.
> 
> He then remembers that he was the one who told Bruce that it was safe to send in Damian so he kills himself for having endangered Damian.
> ...


I like your story. It reminds me of the original Outsiders story where Alfred does come back to kill Bruce   :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Digifiend

> With the new Timeline now coming into effect in WW what do think Damian will be doing? He might not be effected because he is still a Teen.


The current storyline will come to it's natural conclusion, and then he'll probably just create a new version of the Teen Titans. None of the current team should suffer an age up as they're all recent creations.

----------


## CPSparkles

> The current storyline will come to it's natural conclusion, and then he'll probably just create a new version of the Teen Titans. None of the current team should suffer an age up as they're all recent creations.


It's all confusing I thought 5G was a time skip where the JL gets replaced. The DC spoiler about Damian long lost sister is also confusing.

I heard Legion is going to have clues but not sure which issue.

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/akkiyamia





https://twitter.com/huyandere

----------


## Blue22

In case anyone's interested, here's a Legion #3 (aka "Super Sons" reunion #2) preview
https://www.newsarama.com/48583-robi...-heroes-3.html

Yeah this is already gonna be a hard pass for me. Believe it or not, I am trying SUPER hard to give Legion a chance here but....everything with older Jon makes me irrationally angry and every Damian line written by Bendis makes me wanna cringe. I can't even enjoy anything else about this book cuz I'm so focused on the big glaring Kryptonian elephant in the room, and the Robin who continues to sound like he's written by someone who's never actually read any of his books XD

----------


## Frontier

> In case anyone's interested, here's a Legion #3 (aka "Super Sons" reunion #2) preview
> https://www.newsarama.com/48583-robi...-heroes-3.html
> 
> Yeah this is already gonna be a hard pass for me. Believe it or not, I am trying SUPER hard to give Legion a chance here but....everything with older Jon makes me irrationally angry and every Damian line written by Bendis makes me wanna cringe. I can't even enjoy anything else about this book cuz I'm so focused on the big glaring Kryptonian elephant in the room, and the Robin who continues to sound like he's written by someone who's never actually read any of his books XD


Suffice it to say I don't think this issue is going to change people's minds on how Bendis writes Damian.

----------


## Blue22

I keep giving him a fair chance because he's clearly in this for the long haul and he's handling two of some of my favorite characters but....I just want this man away from DC, so bad.

----------


## Eto

> Suffice it to say I don't think this issue is going to change people's minds on how Bendis writes Damian.


True words. Sigh.
I want him to stay away from Jason.

----------


## Eto

You know, I’d like to see a reunion with Damian, Jason, Dick and Tim. The four of them kicking ass together or even just have a talk would be awesome.

----------


## Restingvoice

It sounds like he writes him like a normal little kid, which is kinda cute, but also weird. 

That one scene where Damian saw 17-year-old Jon the first time and just chucked him Batarangs without saying anything until he finally yelled what happened feels more Damian.

----------


## Eto

That’s literally the only time he’s gotten Damian right thus far. That’s like saying writing a character OOC 9/10 issue but that one issue you hit the nail. Yeah, if that will be the case with Bendis writing Damian, Uuh no thanks.

----------


## Jackalope89

> It sounds like he writes him like a normal little kid, which is kinda cute, but also weird. 
> 
> That one scene where Damian saw 17-year-old Jon the first time and just chucked him Batarangs without saying anything until he finally yelled what happened feels more Damian.


Correction! Bendis writes Damian like a slightly miffed, normal little kid. Not all that dissimilar from Battle for the Cowl Damian, sadly.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Correction! Bendis writes Damian like a slightly miffed, normal little kid. Not all that dissimilar from Battle for the Cowl Damian, sadly.


How can I forget Damian stealing Batmobile to nyoom around with a goth chick and then screamed mommy when he almost got nommed by Crocomire

----------


## Blue22

Basically a less amusing version of the Damian in Harley Quinn.

----------


## Ansa

> Suffice it to say I don't think this issue is going to change people's minds on how Bendis writes Damian.


And the worst part is, he probably sees no reason to improve his writing of them. Bendis writes almost every character the exact same, he will keep writing them this way and nothing is going to change :/

----------


## Ansa

> I keep giving him a fair chance because he's clearly in this for the long haul and he's handling two of some of my favorite characters but....I just want this man away from DC, so bad.


What does DC even see in him? What kind of contract does he have?

----------


## Ansa

> I doubt it'll change much he's still a teenager and his team mates are about similar ages to him so TT will still be his team. I know that they teased Damian's sisters being needed to save him.
> 
> Perhaps everyone in the Batfamily is about to die which is why Superman is needs to find this unknown sister.


Isn't Damian (and his team) about to die (again) to save Djinn in march?
Maybe the Teen Titans will spend 5g in purgatory lol.

----------


## Restingvoice

> What does DC even see in him? What kind of contract does he have?


Only that he's worldbuilding Marvel since 200...5? I don't remember, but it was a very long run. He created Miles Morales, the Civil War, and so on.

----------


## Blue22

> Only that he's worldbuilding Marvel since 200...5? I don't remember, but it was a very long run. He created Miles Morales, the Civil War, and so on.


Are we counting Civil War as a positive mark on his track record?

----------


## Restingvoice

> Are we counting Civil War as a positive mark on his track record?


It's better than Civil War 2, inspired a movie, and defined the Cap vs Iron Man for a whole generation... it was controversial but he brings in money and the word of mouth. The first time I heard Marvel doing anything in a long time was because of his run. Avengers Disassembled, House of M, Miles Morales, Civil War, its effect on Peter and MJ, and all the events afterward. I didn't even look at Marvel before that.

If I'm not mistaken he's been compared to Morrison. The run divided fans and changed a female character for a long time. Talia for Morrison and Wanda for Bendis. It's like there were two Marvels in the modern era. Pre-Bendis, and Post-Bendis. At least until Nick Spencer came and caused new controversy.

----------


## Blue22

Wait, I thought we were talking about Civil War 2 (one of the last big strikes I held against him at Marvel). How involved was he with the first Civil War? He certainly didn't write it.

----------


## Zaresh

> Wait, I thought we were talking about Civil War 2 (one of the last big strikes I held against him at Marvel). How involved was he with the first Civil War? He certainly didn't write it.


CV was Mark Millar's event, as far as I recall.
CVII was Bendis. And Avengers Disassembled. And House of M. And a few other events.

I think Hickman may have had a bigger role handling the Marvel Universe as a whole concept in the early to middle 10's than Bendis had, though.

----------


## Ansa

I don't know much about Marvel, but according to Wikipedia Civil War was written by Mark Millar and Civil War II was written by Bendis. And for some people Civil War II seems to be one of the worst Marvel events in recent memory, but I can't comment on that.

Edit: You got there first.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Wait, I thought we were talking about Civil War 2 (one of the last big strikes I held against him at Marvel). How involved was he with the first Civil War? He certainly didn't write it.


Oh, wait he did write Civil War 2, not 1. I  thought he wrote the first one because I viewed Disassembled. New Avengers, House of M and Civil War kinda back to back, so I thought he did that too.
Secret Invasion is the one he wrote.

And yeah, 2 is the bad one, but by that time I already stopped paying attention, so I only heard word of mouth.

Back to topic, mistakes aside, my point was, despite fans not liking the stories, it doesn't matter for DC. They have Tom King and Heroes in Crisis, Remender and Identity Crisis, Morrison when he first created Damian was also hated. They're used to that kinda thing. As long as the writer can world build, bring money and garner attention that's what matters. That's what they've been doing.

----------


## Blue22

> I don't know much about Marvel, but according to Wikipedia Civil War was written by Mark Millar and Civil War II was written by Bendis. And for some people Civil War II seems to be one of the worst Marvel events in recent memory, but I can't comment on that.
> 
> Edit: You got there first.


Yeah both Civil Wars were dumb and featured MULTIPLE character assassinations (both literally and figuratively) but the second one (which Bendis did write) was one of the most awful crossover events I'd ever had the displeasure of reading. It even briefly brought back that annoying habit Bendis gave the young Jean Grey, where she'd knowingly invade other people's minds, with no regard for their privacy.

She's probably the only person he writes with worse care than Damian. And that's saying something considering he's the one who created her xD

----------


## Dzetoun

> Back to topic, mistakes aside, my point was, despite fans not liking the stories, it doesn't matter for DC. They have Tom King and Heroes in Crisis, Remender and Identity Crisis, Morrison when he first created Damian was also hated. They're used to that kinda thing. As long as the writer can world build, bring money and garner attention that's what matters. That's what they've been doing.


As Claude would say, point of order: _Identity Crisis_ was Brad Meltzer, not Remender.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Oh, wait he did write Civil War 2, not 1. I  thought he wrote the first one because I viewed Disassembled. New Avengers, House of M and Civil War kinda back to back, so I thought he did that too.
> Secret Invasion is the one he wrote.
> 
> And yeah, 2 is the bad one, but by that time I already stopped paying attention, so I only heard word of mouth.
> 
> Back to topic, mistakes aside, my point was, despite fans not liking the stories, it doesn't matter for DC. They have Tom King and Heroes in Crisis, Remender and Identity Crisis, Morrison when he first created Damian was also hated. They're used to that kinda thing. As long as the writer can world build, bring money and garner attention that's what matters. That's what they've been doing.



Morrison didn't write Identity Crisis he wrote Final Crisis and Morrison was selling unlike Bendis who is losing money on Superman. YJ sales despite heavy promotion and having 4 big time characters in the lead is performing poorly compared to TT which is well into it's 30's and has only Damian as a big character to carry it.

I feel that DC signed Bendis hoping to get something big out of it with a contract that gives him all types of control but he's failing to deliver so now they are stuck.

He isn't doing any world building. Synder and Johns are doing the world building. All the big changes are spinning out of Metal and JL nothing out of Bendis. DC just cancelled out his Legion origin and other titles are ignoring what's going on in his title. eg Tim should be lost in the Multiverse yet he turn up for City of Bane which Bendis ignored. Tim doesn't rec all that Alfred is dead.

5G, the new Time line everything that's shaping/has been shaping the DCU none of it is down to Bendis.

----------


## CPSparkles

> You know, Id like to see a reunion with Damian, Jason, Dick and Tim. The four of them kicking ass together or even just have a talk would be awesome.


It would be great. The Batfamily being a family again. It's okay Batman rebuilding Gotham but what about his kids? 

Bruce dropped the ball hard with Jason, Damian and Dick in the last run. It's time he face the music, eat some humble pie and start rebuilding those relationships.

Knowing DC though it's all going to be forgotten and forgiven with not one writer making Bruce take responsibility for what he put those 3 through.

I'd like all the boys just getting together and hanging in a title that isn't Batman's. Perhaps after Tim returns and Dick regains his memories they can all just get together as a welcome back

----------


## CPSparkles

> In case anyone's interested, here's a Legion #3 (aka "Super Sons" reunion #2) preview
> https://www.newsarama.com/48583-robi...-heroes-3.html
> 
> Yeah this is already gonna be a hard pass for me. Believe it or not, I am trying SUPER hard to give Legion a chance here but....everything with older Jon makes me irrationally angry and every Damian line written by Bendis makes me wanna cringe. I can't even enjoy anything else about this book cuz I'm so focused on the big glaring Kryptonian elephant in the room, and the Robin who continues to sound like he's written by someone who's never actually read any of his books XD


I wish he just wouldn't bother writing these two since all he's doing is upsetting fans. He is deliberately salting the wounds he inflicted.

No one wants Bendis touching the supersons. the huge drop in sales of the Superman issue where Bendis 1st attempted to write the Supersons should be message enough. Hopefully fans stay away from this Legion issue as well.


Just enough already

----------


## dietrich

> In case anyone's interested, here's a Legion #3 (aka "Super Sons" reunion #2) preview
> https://www.newsarama.com/48583-robi...-heroes-3.html
> 
> Yeah this is already gonna be a hard pass for me. Believe it or not, I am trying SUPER hard to give Legion a chance here but....everything with older Jon makes me irrationally angry and every Damian line written by Bendis makes me wanna cringe. I can't even enjoy anything else about this book cuz I'm so focused on the big glaring Kryptonian elephant in the room, and the Robin who continues to sound like he's written by someone who's never actually read any of his books XD


I liked the Power Rangers dig. Thought it was funny.

So yet another dig at Bats no having powers. We had one last time with Damian saving cats while the Supers saved buildings and stuff.

I don't know why Bendis would think that anyone wants his version of Supersons. Dude you ruined it. I think he's doing it on purpose to ruffle feathers like his constant insulting Damian on his social media.
Like his trolling TimKon fans by giving them even more TimSteph and teasing the two might get married

----------


## dietrich

> You know, Id like to see a reunion with Damian, Jason, Dick and Tim. The four of them kicking ass together or even just have a talk would be awesome.


That would be great but DC never gives us greatness. Not to mention that only two of those are around and they are not the best of pals because DC loves angst.

----------


## dietrich

> Isn't Damian (and his team) about to die (again) to save Djinn in march?
> Maybe the Teen Titans will spend 5g in purgatory lol.


OMG! That's what he needs saving from in 5G

----------


## Ansa

> It would be great. The Batfamily being a family again. It's okay Batman rebuilding Gotham but what about his kids? 
> 
> Bruce dropped the ball hard with Jason, Damian and Dick in the last run. It's time he face the music, eat some humble pie and start rebuilding those relationships.
> 
> Knowing DC though it's all going to be forgotten and forgiven with not one writer making Bruce take responsibility for what he put those 3 through.
> 
> I'd like all the boys just getting together and hanging in a title that isn't Batman's. Perhaps after Tim returns and Dick regains his memories they can all just get together as a welcome back


As much as I'd like Bruce to give his kids a serious and long apology after all the shit he has done for the last few years, I don't think we'll get that. DC isn't really into Bruce admitting he fucked up. They only love making him do fucked up things.

For now I would aready be happy if we got to see them all grieve for Alfred and not just Bruce. The upcoming Detective Comics annual and Alfred RIP are going to deal with Alfred's death, so I'm hoping for something there.
None of their solo/team titles are currently at a point where they could fit an issue about grieving for Alfred into the story, at least in my opinion, so those two titles are my only hope.

Alfred was important to all of them and Damian had to freakin watch him die, like- how can you not adress that at some point?

----------


## Ansa

> I liked the Power Rangers dig. Thought it was funny.
> 
> So yet another dig at Bats no having powers. We had one last time with Damian saving cats while the Supers saved buildings and stuff.
> 
> I don't know why Bendis would think that anyone wants his version of Supersons. Dude you ruined it. I think he's doing it on purpose to ruffle feathers like his constant insulting Damian on his social media.
> Like his trolling TimKon fans by giving them even more TimSteph and teasing the two might get married


Yep, fans just love it when you insult them and their favourite characters.

He's the guy who got Super Sons cancelled, aged up Jon, made Tim Robin again for a short time and with no reason or explanation- yeah, sure, we're going to trust Bendis. He totally has Damian's and Jon's best interest at heart.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Isn't Damian (and his team) about to die (again) to save Djinn in march?
> Maybe the Teen Titans will spend 5g in purgatory lol.


How are they about to die?

----------


## Ansa

> How are they about to die?


I don't know, it's just solicitations. Those are often misleading.

TEEN TITANS #40
written by ADAM GLASS and ROBBIE THOMPSON
art by EDUARDO PANSICA and JULIO FERREIRA
cover by BERNARD CHANG
variant cover by KHARY RANDOLPH
“Djinn War” continues! Elias and his army of genies have begun their assault on heaven, and the only person capable of stopping him is his younger sister Djinn—who is currently trapped in purgatory. But Robin, Crush and the rest of the Teen Titans have a plan to bust her out—and the road to purgatory goes through hell itself. But how do you get to hell, you ask? Simple...you only have to die!
ON SALE 03.18.20

----------


## Ansa

Damian already has some experience with dying and hell, I'm sure it will be fine :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Katana500

Damian getting trapped voluntarily with Djinn in purgatory could be interesting. Maybe his sister would be the only one who could use Djinn's ring to free him - because of reasons! I could see it kinda working.

----------


## Ansa

> Damian getting trapped voluntarily with Djinn in purgatory could be interesting. Maybe his sister would be the only one who could use Djinn's ring to free him - because of reasons! I could see it kinda working.


Would be a great time for Bruce to check up on him. Dammit not again. Ra's prepare a bath!

----------


## adrikito

> Dude you ruined it. I think he's doing it on purpose to ruffle feathers like his constant insulting Damian on his social media.
> 
> Like his trolling TimKon fans by giving them even more TimSteph and teasing the two might get married


Bendis... Sometimes the best is not make anything(only stop insulting him in internet).. I can´t see one miracle like with Taylor in his case. Forget Damian and focus in your work.

I would like to see him trolling DamianxS.kid fans.. Only for that I would subscribe to his twitter. 

*Bendis sees Tim and Steph as one good couple??? PERFECT.. I need more Steph* and know that Bendis has one good opinion about her to even create one Steph Batwoman in the Crime Syndicate Earth. 

*Unfortunatelly he said that he can´t Big Things for her in one interview.(minor appearances) DC said no*   :Mad:  Stupid Steph haters.  :Mad:

----------


## Zaresh

> Morrison didn't write Identity Crisis he wrote Final Crisis and Morrison was selling unlike Bendis who is losing money on Superman. YJ sales despite heavy promotion and having 4 big time characters in the lead is performing poorly compared to TT which is well into it's 30's and has only Damian as a big character to carry it.
> 
> I feel that DC signed Bendis hoping to get something big out of it with a contract that gives him all types of control but he's failing to deliver so now they are stuck.
> 
> He isn't doing any world building. Synder and Johns are doing the world building. All the big changes are spinning out of Metal and JL nothing out of Bendis. DC just cancelled out his Legion origin and other titles are ignoring what's going on in his title. eg Tim should be lost in the Multiverse yet he turn up for City of Bane which Bendis ignored. Tim doesn't rec all that Alfred is dead.
> 
> 5G, the new Time line everything that's shaping/has been shaping the DCU none of it is down to Bendis.


Bendis got something big, to be fair. He has:
-Total control over one big character and his family (or so it looks like). Superman, his books, etc.
-An imprint for new/young/fresh characters that he heads or controls (Wonder Comics).
-Publish creator owned stuff, like Naomi.
-Have a hand in Batman (so far is that walmart book, but could be more).
-JY, even if so far hasn't been important enough to have any effect in other books.
-Handle events so far, almost since the moment he has arrived, and probably further, that do effect other writers book.

And I have the feeling that he has had his fair share of influence in how 5G is being projected, even if it's not his idea.

Yeah, he isn't changing the DCU mechanics with any of his stuff. But I think he has a lot in his bag to rule over, honestly. It's a lot of work, too. But he probably is paid a lot too. I don't think they promised him much more control over the DCU than that (and that is a lot, honestly).

----------


## Eto

> It would be great. The Batfamily being a family again. It's okay Batman rebuilding Gotham but what about his kids? 
> 
> Bruce dropped the ball hard with Jason, Damian and Dick in the last run. It's time he face the music, eat some humble pie and start rebuilding those relationships.
> 
> 
> 
> Knowing DC though it's all going to be forgotten and forgiven with not one writer making Bruce take responsibility for what he put those 3 through.
> 
> I'd like all the boys just getting together and hanging in a title that isn't Batman's. Perhaps after Tim returns and Dick regains his memories they can all just get together as a welcome back


Yeah, I’d love it to happen.

----------


## Eto

> Bendis got something big, to be fair. He has:
> -Total control over one big character and his family (or so it looks like). Superman, his books, etc.
> -An imprint for new/young/fresh characters that he heads or controls (Wonder Comics).
> -Publish creator owned stuff, like Naomi.
> -Have a hand in Batman (so far is that walmart book, but could be more).
> -JY, even if so far hasn't been important enough to have any effect in other books.
> -Handle events so far, almost since the moment he has arrived, and probably further, that do effect other writers book.
> 
> And I have the feeling that he has had his fair share of influence in how 5G is being projected, even if it's not his idea.
> ...


Despite the fact that I’ve known it already, it still baffles me how much control he’s got over the DCU as you’ve pointed out. Sigh.

----------


## adrikito

> I don't know, it's just solicitations. Those are often misleading.
> 
> TEEN TITANS #40
> written by ADAM GLASS and ROBBIE THOMPSON
> art by EDUARDO PANSICA and JULIO FERREIRA
> cover by BERNARD CHANG
> variant cover by KHARY RANDOLPH
> Djinn War continues! Elias and his army of genies have begun their assault on heaven, and the only person capable of stopping him is his younger sister Djinnwho is currently trapped in purgatory. But Robin, Crush and the rest of the Teen Titans have a plan to bust her outand the road to purgatory goes through hell itself. But how do you get to hell, you ask? Simple...you only have to die!
> ON SALE 03.18.20


The solicitations are out?

OK. This war continues. 

Assault the heaven... Is like they want to be a GODS or something like that.

----------


## Ansa

> The solicitations are out?
> 
> OK. This war continues. 
> 
> Assault the heaven... Is like they want to be a GODS or something like that.


That's from the March solicitations published last month. The ones for April should come out on friday as far as I know.

----------


## dietrich

> Bendis got something big, to be fair. He has:
> -Total control over one big character and his family (or so it looks like). Superman, his books, etc.
> -An imprint for new/young/fresh characters that he heads or controls (Wonder Comics).
> -Publish creator owned stuff, like Naomi.
> -Have a hand in Batman (so far is that walmart book, but could be more).
> -JY, even if so far hasn't been important enough to have any effect in other books.
> -Handle events so far, almost since the moment he has arrived, and probably further, that do effect other writers book.
> 
> And I have the feeling that he has had his fair share of influence in how 5G is being projected, even if it's not his idea.
> ...


I think fans overestimate how much influence he has. He has Superman and was able to cancel supersons before he had sold a single issue. Now that the sales are in what other change has he managed?

Wonder comics is a bust. Naomi is the only thing that has legs out of the entire range and that includes YJ which has already dropped to under 20k before issue 12

Synder's disciple is the guy on Batman. Synder's metal and JL so far have been changing the universe. Synder even told us way back that Prime Time was coming back and we laughed but guess who just ca,me back?
Death Metal Synder's next big Crisis will set the stage for the rest of the changes.

Leviathan the big Bendis event was a huge disappoint both in sales and execution he was already to contracted to do a 2nd which is why we have a 2nd Leviathan to suffer through.
He claimed Leviathan was going to change the DCU. a claim he's again making and that will just like last time not amount to anything.

Synder and Didio are the ones calling the shots. Tom Taylor just based on his sales has more power than Bendis. 

Bendis doesn't have as much power as some think he has characters that DC superman and character that were on the bench and an out of continuity Batbooks. Neal Adams has an out of continuity batbook

----------


## dietrich

> Bendis... Sometimes the best is not make anything(only stop insulting him in internet).. I can´t see one miracle like with Taylor in his case. Forget Damian and focus in your work.
> 
> I would like to see him trolling DamianxS.kid fans.. Only for that I would subscribe to his twitter. 
> 
> *Bendis sees Tim and Steph as one good couple??? PERFECT.. I need more Steph* and know that Bendis has one good opinion about her to even create one Steph Batwoman in the Crime Syndicate Earth. 
> 
> *Unfortunatelly he said that he can´t Big Things for her in one interview.(minor appearances) DC said no*   Stupid Steph haters.


He seems to be going the other way with the supersons fans. Queer baiting/Bromance baiting writing content that no one asked for.

I'm glad Steph is getting love but it's difficult to not get annoyed at all the hate and lies that TimKon shippers are throwing at her. It's getting to Curran Walters level. Where everyone who likes the pair is accused of being homophobic and misogynistic. I don't have any idea whats behind the claims but shippers are the worst.

I like how Steph is being used. I like their relationship under Bendis than I did under Tynion. I don't believe it's the greatest romance but it's not as bad as jealous fans on tumblr make it seem.

I agree that writers should step away from the chit chat on social media and focus on doing their jobs. It's always the most incompetent writers that are the worst offenders bendis and King

----------


## Restingvoice

> I think fans overestimate how much influence he has. He has Superman and was able to cancel supersons before he had sold a single issue. Now that the sales are in what other change has he managed?
> 
> Wonder comics is a bust. Naomi is the only thing that has legs out of the entire range and that includes YJ which has already dropped to under 20k before issue 12
> 
> Synder's disciple is the guy on Batman. Synder's metal and JL so far have been changing the universe. Synder even told us way back that Prime Time was coming back and we laughed but guess who just ca,me back?
> Death Metal Synder's next big Crisis will set the stage for the rest of the changes.
> 
> Leviathan the big Bendis event was a huge disappoint both in sales and execution he was already to contracted to do a 2nd which is why we have a 2nd Leviathan to suffer through.
> He claimed Leviathan was going to change the DCU. a claim he's again making and that will just like last time not amount to anything.
> ...


The fact that DC is okay with canceling Super Sons to follow his idea, given a whole department of young heroes to play, and okay a story where he unmasked Superman is still too much power for me. Maybe in time, they'll see he's not worth it but if DC likes someone it usually takes a while if at all. Lobdell's Red Hood was never canceled despite dipping below the cancellation line in the time where other writers are replaced left and right.

----------


## dietrich

> The fact that DC is okay with canceling Super Sons to follow his idea, given a whole department of young heroes to play, and okay a story where he unmasked Superman is still too much power for me. Maybe in time, they'll see he's not worth it but if DC likes someone it usually takes a while if at all. Lobdell's Red Hood was never canceled despite dipping below the cancellation line in the time where other writers are replaced left and right.


DC sadly is an old boys club like Harras famously said as long as I'm at with the company Lobdell will always have a job which is too bad for Jason since it means he's stuck with Lobdell

----------


## dietrich

https://twitter.com/bandaoyin_mu

----------


## CPSparkles

The band is back




https://twitter.com/myveryhappypp

----------


## CPSparkles

Older Supersons







https://twitter.com/shugetsu_aki

----------


## Jackalope89

> DC sadly is an old boys club like Harras famously said as long as I'm at with the company Lobdell will always have a job which is too bad for Jason since it means he's stuck with Lobdell


Say what you will about Lobdell on other series, but he's the one that brought about the Dark Trinity, developed Jason the most (and in the best way) since Flashpoint, made Jason into a very interesting character. Its about the only series I still truly enjoy since Rebirth ended.

----------


## dietrich

> Say what you will about Lobdell on other series, but he's the one that brought about the Dark Trinity, developed Jason the most (and in the best way) since Flashpoint, made Jason into a very interesting character. Its about the only series I still truly enjoy since Rebirth ended.


Has he developed him though? He's had the book for how long and he has yet to give him a clear developed purpose or supporting cast. few characters have the luxury of having a steady writer for years and Lobdell has wasted it.

jason is still struggling with the same issues and insecurities since he came back re the family and Bruce. It's still unclear if he's a hero, anti-hero or villain.
Lobdell isn't good for Jason because he can't make up his mind what the character should be.

He keeps teasing him as a Punisher type but then he writes that Jason will walk back his principals just for the luxury of wearing the bat brand. That robs the character of any agency.

Lobdell makes Jason inconsistent, indecisive and boring. I wish someone else would get a crack at the character. I'm so sick of him having issues with Bruce and the same old same old.

Jason by now should have a well developed and organic part of the DCU that he calls his own if lobdell had been a better writer with a clear vision for the character.

I used to enjoy the book but even when I found the book interesting I still noticed that the character was still dealing with the same issues that he always has and hasn't progressed.

----------


## Zaresh

> I think fans overestimate how much influence he has. He has Superman and was able to cancel supersons before he had sold a single issue. Now that the sales are in what other change has he managed?
> 
> Wonder comics is a bust. Naomi is the only thing that has legs out of the entire range and that includes YJ which has already dropped to under 20k before issue 12
> 
> Synder's disciple is the guy on Batman. Synder's metal and JL so far have been changing the universe. Synder even told us way back that Prime Time was coming back and we laughed but guess who just ca,me back?
> Death Metal Synder's next big Crisis will set the stage for the rest of the changes.
> 
> Leviathan the big Bendis event was a huge disappoint both in sales and execution he was already to contracted to do a 2nd which is why we have a 2nd Leviathan to suffer through.
> He claimed Leviathan was going to change the DCU. a claim he's again making and that will just like last time not amount to anything.
> ...


Fair points, all those. But besides sales, I'm guessing he also has some contract specifications that still would give him control over all those things no mater his sales (superman, his imprint and whatever his say is in the forthcoming events). I mean, we don't have a GA book yet and, iirc, news and rumours, he's still involved in this summer event. I'm also a Marvel reader, and I remember him being the guy to go with events and promoted books even when they haven't sold that well for a while. I remember his Guardians and that Defenders book, for example, the year before he quit Marvel. Because things like that, I've always wondered if it's the sort of issues and clauses that they write in their contracts when they're hired.

Or maybe he gets that much work because he's friendly to other coworkers (easy to work with), experienced, fast and can write several books at the same time.

----------


## dietrich

> Fair points, all those. But besides sales, I'm guessing he also has some contract specifications that still would give him control over all those things no mater his sales (superman, his imprint and whatever his say is in the forthcoming events). I mean, we don't have a GA book yet and, iirc, news and rumours, he's still involved in this summer event. I'm also a Marvel reader, and I remember him being the guy to go with events and promoted books even when they haven't sold that well for a while. I remember his Guardians and that Defenders book, for example, the year before he quit Marvel. Because things like that, I've always wondered if it's the sort of issues and clauses that they write in their contracts when they're hired.


The big events coming up are Death Metal and 5G non of which are anything to do with Bendis.

I don't know what power he has or what his contract says but his only power moves were made before he even wrote one issue for DC that was getting Supersons cancelled  and ageing Jon up that's it. Both of which now he's pathetically trying to make up for by pandering to the fan base with all these guest appearances that no one asked for.

The series of work that are crafting the DCU going forward aren't from Bendis that is clear from the books that changes are spinning out of.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Has he developed him though? He's had the book for how long and he has yet to give him a clear developed purpose or supporting cast. few characters have the luxury of having a steady writer for years and Lobdell has wasted it.
> 
> jason is still struggling with the same issues and insecurities since he came back re the family and Bruce. It's still unclear if he's a hero, anti-hero or villain.
> Lobdell isn't good for Jason because he can't make up his mind what the character should be.
> 
> He keeps teasing him as a Punisher type but then he writes that Jason will walk back his principals just for the luxury of wearing the bat brand. That robs the character of any agency.
> 
> Lobdell makes Jason inconsistent, indecisive and boring. I wish someone else would get a crack at the character. I'm so sick of him having issues with Bruce and the same old same old.
> 
> ...


Jason is a clear hero. It was Bruce's lack of trust in Jason that lead to Jason's alienation from the family. He gave the way for the children of a Triad leader out of the life of crime (no strings attached), saved a farm community from Grundy-bots controlled by a powerful meta with deep connections to the criminal underworld (with Kate Kane's help, of course), and took in a bunch of meta-teens that had no choice before he came along. No one to look out for their well-being. He became a big brother to Bizarro and something else (family of some sort, at the very least) with Artemis.

----------


## Godlike13

> Has he developed him though? He's had the book for how long and he has yet to give him a clear developed purpose or supporting cast. few characters have the luxury of having a steady writer for years and Lobdell has wasted it.
> 
> jason is still struggling with the same issues and insecurities since he came back re the family and Bruce. It's still unclear if he's a hero, anti-hero or villain.
> Lobdell isn't good for Jason because he can't make up his mind what the character should be.
> 
> He keeps teasing him as a Punisher type but then he writes that Jason will walk back his principals just for the luxury of wearing the bat brand. That robs the character of any agency.
> 
> Lobdell makes Jason inconsistent, indecisive and boring. I wish someone else would get a crack at the character. I'm so sick of him having issues with Bruce and the same old same old.
> 
> ...


Exactly.
...

----------


## Ansa

> Say what you will about Lobdell on other series, but he's the one that brought about the Dark Trinity, developed Jason the most (and in the best way) since Flashpoint, made Jason into a very interesting character. Its about the only series I still truly enjoy since Rebirth ended.


I remember hearing that the dark trinity was originally Geoff Johns' idea and that he had to push Lobdell to do it, but I might be wrong.

----------


## adrikito

OK. Apparently THE OTHER is gone(I am not 100% convinced) and the next is Ellias. Crush is not under mind control anymore.

SPOILERS ABOUT DAMIAN.. It seems that there are WORST THINGS than be Batman.

*spoilers:*
You will see him crying 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Blue22

Yeah that issue went about as I expected. 
*spoilers:*
Right down to everyone but Crush just.... forgiving Roundhouse and Damian even saying he doesn't need to apologise...which is laughable as fuck but expected. Forgive him if you want to but don't stop him from saying sorry like this wasn't his fault xD
*end of spoilers*

Anyway, I'm glad this Other stuff got wrapped up. Time to save Djinn.

----------


## Zaresh

> I remember hearing that the dark trinity was originally Geoff Johns' idea and that he had to push Lobdell to do it, but I might be wrong.


Not push. Suggested.
Lobdell went to ask about certain small characters and Johns suggested using Artemis and Bizarro. A thing that editors and higher do, I guess: they suggest characters to use.
I've had the impression, going by interviews and stuff, that Lobdell only got the book again because he did have more control over it than before (iirc, that he was writing a script for a movie then). And he seemed to be in good terms with Johns then. But it's been almost 4 years since then, so perhaps I'm remembering wrong.

----------


## Katana500

> Anyway, I'm glad this Other stuff got wrapped up. Time to save Djinn.


I hope when this run of Teen titans ends. Djinn isn't dropped, I think she is an interesting character and I'd like to see her interact with Damian more in the future. Idea of them together has grown on me.

Would give Damian quite a unique love interest helping set him apart. Though I'd maybe wait till he is just a tad older.

----------


## Ansa

Not to be overdramatic, but if what I'm hearing about Legion #3 is true Bendis is dead to me. I'm so tired of this shit.

----------


## Blue22

I wouldn't go that far but yeah, I'm not really looking forward to yet another evil version of Damian.

----------


## Katana500

> I wouldn't go that far but yeah, I'm not really looking forward to yet another evil version of Damian.


Are we even sure it necessarily means evil Damian?

Both lines were extremely extremely vague. The Little Hitler thing could have just been a joke since Damian is a bit tyranical sometimes. 

And the other line was also incredibly vague.

----------


## Blue22

I wouldn't know. I've stayed true to my word and didn't read the issue. But everyone else who both liked and hated the book seem to think that's where this is heading. I'm hoping you're right and it's just a joke. But I don't out anything past Bendis. If he has the opportunity to do something unnecessary and unwanted, he seizes it

----------


## Katana500

> I wouldn't know. I've stayed true to my word and didn't read the issue. But everyone else who both liked and hated the book seem to think that's where this is heading. I'm hoping you're right and it's just a joke. But I don't out anything past Bendis. If he has the opportunity to do something unnecessary and unwanted, he seizes it


image-109-1 (1).jpg

This is really all we have to go on. So while being evil is a possibility I dont think theres much point people getting annoyed until we have more information. And even if he did do something bad that doesn't necessarily mean he is not a hero. Maybe he is a hero who had the difficult choice of doing something bad for the greater good and went down as a villian for it.

Him going evil would kinda contradict the plans of Damian being sick or dead and needing saved by his long lost sister in 5G. so who knows.

----------


## Ansa

> image-109-1 (1).jpg
> 
> This is really all we have to go on. So while being evil is a possibility I dont think theres much point people getting annoyed until we have more information. And even if he did do something bad that doesn't necessarily mean he is not a hero. Maybe he is a hero who had the difficult choice of doing something bad for the greater good and went down as a villian for it.
> 
> Him going evil would kinda contradict the plans of Damian being sick or dead and needing saved by his long lost sister in 5G. so who knows.


A) I'm sick of this evil Damian thing. Period. I don't care how ambiguous it is.
B) Calling him "Baby Hitler" is not something I take lightly.
C) Doomsday Clock says Damian needs to be saved from something, it never said it was an illness or being dead. It could be saving him from "evil" or something similar stupid.

----------


## king81992

> Yeah that issue went about as I expected. 
> *spoilers:*
> Right down to everyone but Crush just.... forgiving Roundhouse and Damian even saying he doesn't need to apologise...which is laughable as fuck but expected. Forgive him if you want to but don't stop him from saying sorry like this wasn't his fault xD
> *end of spoilers*
> 
> Anyway, I'm glad this Other stuff got wrapped up. Time to save Djinn.


Roundhouse DID rescue the others. He apologized with his actions, not words. And frankly with how awful this entire team has been to each other, EVERYONE should apologize with actions and words.

----------


## Katana500

> A) I'm sick of this evil Damian thing. Period. I don't care how ambigious it is.
> B) Calling him "Baby Hitler" is not something I take lightly.
> C) Doomsday Clock says Damian needs to be saved from something, it never said it was an illness or being dead. It could be saving him from "evil" or something similar stupid.


ah my mistake I just assumed he had like a disease only his sister could cure or something. I guess it could be curing him from evil but Idk why you would especially need his long lost sister for that.

----------


## Shen

Hey guys, just signed up to the cbr recently but I've followed the Damian Wayne Appreciation threads through the years. Always nice to see people who actually appreciate a character as Awesome as Damian. 

I haven't seen the whole 5G thing yet, so I don't know. I'm wondering if the sister referenced in that timeline is actually his blood relative.

----------


## Katana500

> Hey guys, just signed up to the cbr recently but I've followed the Damian Wayne Appreciation threads through the years. Always nice to see people who actually appreciate a character as Awesome as Damian. 
> 
> I haven't seen the whole 5G thing yet, so I don't know. I'm wondering if the sister referenced in that timeline is actually his blood relative.


Welcome! Hope you enjoy it here!

----------


## sifighter

> Hey guys, just signed up to the cbr recently but I've followed the Damian Wayne Appreciation threads through the years. Always nice to see people who actually appreciate a character as Awesome as Damian. 
> 
> I haven't seen the whole 5G thing yet, so I don't know. I'm wondering if the sister referenced in that timeline is actually his blood relative.


Glad to meet you. As for the sister thing as of right now there are two potential possibilities. The first is Talia has a daughter who would be Damian's biological sister, which is possible and they introduced one in the injustice universe comics. The second would be Earth 2 Daughter of Batman and Catwoman, Helena Wayne the original Huntress who died in Crisis on Infinite Earths but is probably alive again on the new earth 2. Either one would probably be really cool in my opinion, but I'd be lying if I didn't want more of Helena Wayne (I'm a fan of classic JSA and have been reading their old 70's comics when Helena first appeared).




> A) I'm sick of this evil Damian thing. Period. I don't care how ambigious it is.
> B) Calling him "Baby Hitler" is not something I take lightly.
> C) Doomsday Clock says Damian needs to be saved from something, it never said it was an illness or being dead. It could be saving him from "evil" or something similar stupid.


You know what I am kind of sick of seeing that awful comparison to characters I like in comics, first Cyclops and now apparently Damian. It's an awful comparison and it doesn't work with heroes that we've seen for years be heroes, especially when we have not seen anything to that level of evil. I'd agree with Brainiac 5 that was a unfair assessment.
 I honestly would have preferred it if the reason Damian couldn't stay was because the Legion knew enough about him to know he'd try to take equipment and knowledge from the future back with him

----------


## Shen

> Welcome! Hope you enjoy it here!


Thanks, I will!

----------


## Shen

I was asking because when I saw all the discussions going on on 'should Damian have a sister' I was wondering why no-one thought of Maya. I mean, aren't they basically brother and sister?

----------


## Katana500

> I was asking because when I saw all the discussions going on on 'should Damian have a sister' I was wondering why no-one thought of Maya. I mean, aren't they basically brother and sister?


I wish we got to see more of Damian's and Maya's bond. She could have so easily fitted into his current Teen Titans team. Would have been fun to see her butting heads with Emiko as Damian's second.




> Glad to meet you. As for the sister thing as of right now there are two potential possibilities. The first is Talia has a daughter who would be Damian's biological sister, which is possible and they introduced one in the injustice universe comics. The second would be Earth 2 Daughter of Batman and Catwoman, Helena Wayne the original Huntress who died in Crisis on Infinite Earths but is probably alive again on the new earth 2. Either one would probably be really cool in my opinion, but I'd be lying if I didn't want more of Helena Wayne (I'm a fan of classic JSA and have been reading their old 70's comics when Helena first appeared).


I'd like to see both - would never happen. But imagine a Helena and Anastasia team up to save Damian

----------


## Ansa

> I was asking because when I saw all the discussions going on on 'should Damian have a sister' I was wondering why no-one thought of Maya. I mean, aren't they basically brother and sister?


Because Doomsday Clock talked about "Bruce's son" which we assume means Damian and "Bruce's daughter" who also didn't get a name. Maya is not Bruce's daughter.

----------


## Shen

I actually wouldn't mind it being Helena either. I liked the interactions and banter they had when they met, with Damian talking about the call of blood or something, and how broken up Helena was when she'd heard about his death - this would be a nice relationship to see.

I'd rather not see another Athanasia situation because it's been done before, and it fit the injustice storyline. Either way I hope they start making use of Damian in ways that don't require him to be an angry plot device.

----------


## Shen

> I'd like to see both - would never happen. But imagine a Helena and Anastasia team up to save Damian


That would be Amazing! Can just see Helena trying to keep Athanasia in line, it would be badass and hilarious.

----------


## Blue22

> I was asking because when I saw all the discussions going on on 'should Damian have a sister' I was wondering why no-one thought of Maya. I mean, aren't they basically brother and sister?


Eh. She called herself his sister once in a heartwarming moment to let him know she forgave him for killing her father. But at this point I wouldn't put their relationship on the same "surrogate sibling" level that he has with Dick and the other Robins. Which is unfortunate because that's mostly due to writers not giving her much of a chance. Tomasi and Gleason are pretty much the only ones who care about her. And since neither of them are in charge of Damian anymore, I doubt we'll be seeing a further fleshed out relationship between him and Maya anytime soon. I still can't believe Damian's put two Titans teams together and never considered her for either one.

Honestly, I would love to see Damian with a team that's just Jon, Maya, and Colin. His three closest friends. That would be great. Even if it's the ruined Jon.

----------


## Shen

> Eh. She called herself his sister once in a heartwarming moment to let him know she forgave him for killing her father. But at this point I wouldn't put their relationship on the same "surrogate sibling" level that he has with Dick and the other Robins. Which is unfortunate because that's mostly due to writers not giving her much of a chance. Tomasi and Gleason are pretty much the only ones who care about her. And since neither of them are in charge of Damian anymore, I doubt we'll be seeing a further fleshed out relationship between him and Maya anytime soon. I still can't believe Damian's put two Titans teams together and never considered her for either one.
> 
> Honestly, I would love to see Damian with a team that's just Jon, Maya, and Colin. His three closest friends. That would be great. Even if it's the ruined Jon.


XD ruined Jon indeed.

I agree about Maya, her creator said he'd take her wherever he went and unfortunately that wasn't with Damian. Story wise, Damian probably thought he was protecting Maya by not choosing her. I would've loved to have seen that team up, I'd even include Suren and Kathy.

----------


## Katana500

> Eh. She called herself his sister once in a heartwarming moment to let him know she forgave him for killing her father. But at this point I wouldn't put their relationship on the same "surrogate sibling" level that he has with Dick and the other Robins. Which is unfortunate because that's mostly due to writers not giving her much of a chance. Tomasi and Gleason are pretty much the only ones who care about her. And since neither of them are in charge of Damian anymore, I doubt we'll be seeing a further fleshed out relationship between him and Maya anytime soon. I still can't believe Damian's put two Titans teams together and never considered her for either one.
> 
> Honestly, I would love to see Damian with a team that's just Jon, Maya, and Colin. His three closest friends. That would be great. Even if it's the ruined Jon.


I genuinely thought that there would be a book that was Damian, Jon, Maya and Kathy. I'd have bet my life on thats what they were going to do, seriously felt like they were setting it up. Alas was not the case.

----------


## Jackalope89

> XD ruined Jon indeed.
> 
> I agree about Maya, her creator said he'd take her wherever he went and unfortunately that wasn't with Damian. Story wise, Damian probably thought he was protecting Maya by not choosing her. I would've loved to have seen that team up, I'd even include Suren and Kathy.


I honestly wanted a Teen Titans or Super Sons (may Super Kids?) group with Damian, Jon, Colin, Maya, Kathy, and Suren in it. Perhaps with Wallace and Emiko in there too. With guest appearances by the Bizarro Boyz causing hilarious havoc.

----------


## Shen

> I genuinely thought that there would be a book that was Damian, Jon, Maya and Kathy. I'd have bet my life on thats what they were going to do, seriously felt like they were setting it up. Alas was not the case.


DC has a real knack for that, pisses me of at times.(All the time)

----------


## Katana500

> I honestly wanted a Teen Titans or Super Sons (may Super Kids?) group with Damian, Jon, Colin, Maya, Kathy, and Suren in it. Perhaps with Wallace and Emiko in there too. With guest appearances by the Bizarro Boyz causing hilarious havoc.


If you added a young wonder girl into the line up. Its the sort of thing I could see making an amazing TV show that could be massive.

Robin, Superboy, and a new Wondergirl + Three new characters in Nobody, Beacon and a third male?  Could have been like old teen titans tv show big.


I wonder how mixing Damians Current Titans with him and jons supersons group would go. Mixing the best from both groups could be interesting




> DC has a real knack for that, pisses me of at times.(All the time)


Yeah sometimes I feel they have alot of huge missed oppertunities that were common sense

----------


## Shen

> I honestly wanted a Teen Titans or Super Sons (may Super Kids?) group with Damian, Jon, Colin, Maya, Kathy, and Suren in it. Perhaps with Wallace and Emiko in there too. With guest appearances by the Bizarro Boyz causing hilarious havoc.


Yup, classic DC. Messing things up worse than a Speedster and a timeline. What you just referenced would be an ideal situation - I mean just imagine Robzarro and Damian interacting

----------


## adrikito

One friend told me about what happened in Legion with Damian..
*
BENDIS.. If you hate someone.. You should NOT add him in your comics. Stop Torturing his fans*

Again with the DAMIAN VILLAIN.. And this time is the legion.. 

Legion of SuperIDIOTS.  :Mad:

----------


## Katana500

Just Curious whats everyone's opinion of Djinn and Damian's relationship?

----------


## Blue22

I hesitate to say I like it because he's a child and she's old enough to be his grandfather's great great great grandmother....but I'm not gonna lie, I like it. I wouldn't mind it actually becoming something....just when he's older.

Of all the people Damian's been shipped with, she and Maps are the only ones I don't immediately say "hell no" to.

----------


## adrikito

I am fine with it. Better than continue watching those SuperkidXdamian images.

His +500 years grandfather fucked young women.. Talia is his youngest daughter..

We should not be surprised that his grandson made the opposite with one Old woman with one adolescent appearance.

----------


## adrikito

> Hey guys, just signed up to the cbr recently but I've followed the Damian Wayne Appreciation threads through the years. Always nice to see people who actually appreciate a character as Awesome as Damian. 
> .


WELCOME TO CBR *Shen*. I always like to see more Damian fans..

Before join this place I saw a lot of haters.. Something that I never liked. But it was my fault to visit places like Comicvine.

----------


## Ansa

> One friend told me about what happened in Legion with Damian..
> *
> BENDIS.. If you hate someone.. You should NOT add him in your comics. Stop Torturing his fans*
> 
> Again with the DAMIAN VILLAIN.. And this time is the legion.. 
> 
> Legion of SuperIDIOTS.


Pretty sure Bendis managed to piss off both Legion and Super Sons fans.

Legion fans, because he started shoving Robin into this when he hasn't even properly introduced the Legion yet, and Super Sons fans for obvious reasons.

----------


## Katana500

> I hesitate to say I like it because he's a child and she's old enough to be his grandfather's great great great grandmother....but I'm not gonna lie, I like it. I wouldn't mind it actually becoming something....just when he's older.
> 
> Of all the people Damian's been shipped with, she and Maps are the only ones I don't immediately say "hell no" to.


Its really been growing on me. 

I know I'll probably end up disappointing. since Djinn will probably end up written out like all Damian's other friends in Limbo  :Frown:

----------


## adrikito

Maya, Maps, Goliath.. I really miss them..

I don´t want Djinn receiving the same that Maya..  :Frown:  Gone forever.  :Mad: 




> I wish we got to see more of Damian's and Maya's bond. She could have so easily fitted into his current Teen Titans team. Would have been fun to see her butting heads with Emiko as Damian's second
> 
> I'd like to see both - would never happen. But imagine a Helena and Anastasia team up to save Damian


I would like to see more maya too..
*
Then athanasia would return to her own universe..* Helena can continue here during some time.. We had 2 robins during some months.. No matter have 2 huntress here.

----------


## Jackalope89

Nevermind. Seem to be having issues posting fanart lately. :Confused:

----------


## dietrich

well I'm glad I didn't read Legion.

Welcome to CBR Shen

----------


## dietrich

> Just Curious whats everyone's opinion of Djinn and Damian's relationship?


I don't think Damian has feelings for Djinn or is even aware of her feelings but I'm not opposed to the two dating

----------


## Blue22

Didn't they almost kiss? And didn't Damian acknowledge that they might have had something if he didn't screw things up with the prison ("Whatever we had is gone" or something to that effect)? 

Hell, the whole team saw that those two had some puppy love going on. They may not currently be a thing but I think Damian knows something was there.

----------


## Darkcrusade25

This Damian disrespect is so unnecessary. I'm glad Damian didn't hear what the legion said, that would be so traumatizing.

----------


## Ansa

> This Damian disrespect is so unnecessary. I'm glad Damian didn't hear what the legion said, that would be so traumatizing.


With all the other stuff going wrong in his family and his life right now, I would ask myself how he still has a will to live if he knew his future always stays the same on top of all that.

----------


## dietrich

> This Damian disrespect is so unnecessary. I'm glad Damian didn't hear what the legion said, that would be so traumatizing.


Damian is the worst Robin according to Bendis so I guess he had to make sure it's canon.

I don't get why he can't just focus on writing and leave the pettiness out

----------


## Jackalope89

I peeked at why people were, again, upset with Bendis. Now I know why.

I really want to keep Bendis away from the characters I like, but no. He has to go and ruin them too! And people praise him for this writing?

----------


## OpaqueGiraffe17

> I peeked at why people were, again, upset with Bendis. Now I know why.
> 
> I really want to keep Bendis away from the characters I like, but no. He has to go and ruin them too! And people praise him for this writing?


lol, just wait a few years and he'll move to the batbooks. We ain't seen nothing yet.

----------


## Shen

> Damian is the worst Robin according to Bendis so I guess he had to make sure it's canon.
> 
> I don't get why he can't just focus on writing and leave the pettiness out


Sometimes I wish the League of Assassins were real, i'd just hire talia to solve our Bendis problems

----------


## Shen

> Just Curious whats everyone's opinion of Djinn and Damian's relationship?


I'd rather Damian be a loner for now than to really fall for Djinn. Don't get me wrong, I like her as a character but she is almost always the Damsel in distress, with him running to her aid. It's kinda ooc for Damian to do some of the stuff that he's already done for her, even if he is going through puberty. 

I actually wouldn't mind seeing him with Maps, she brought out a different side of him. There was a time when I liked Damian and Emiko together, but that ship sunk when this TT run started.

----------


## Restingvoice

Damian's memory of Alfred, Batman Pennyworth RIP #1
aHR0cDovL3d3dy5uZXdzYXJhbWEuY29tL2ltYWdlcy9pLzAwMC8yNzMvNDY1L29yaWdpbmFsL1Blbm55d29ydGhfMTFfY29s.jpg

----------


## Shen

> I peeked at why people were, again, upset with Bendis. Now I know why.
> 
> I really want to keep Bendis away from the characters I like, but no. He has to go and ruin them too! And people praise him for this writing?


Alright, so I knew I was gonna be pissed off when I read that legion issue, but this is just unfair to the kid. Okay, so he may become evil or whatever in an alternate future, but what Imra made him think was just out of line. Seriously, I really don't see why Bendis is allowed near Damian at all. There should be some type of comic book restraining order against him.

----------


## Frontier

> Damian's memory of Alfred, Batman Pennyworth RIP #1
> aHR0cDovL3d3dy5uZXdzYXJhbWEuY29tL2ltYWdlcy9pLzAwMC8yNzMvNDY1L29yaWdpbmFsL1Blbm55d29ydGhfMTFfY29s.jpg


I can't wait to see this with dialogue.

----------


## Ansa

> Damian's memory of Alfred, Batman Pennyworth RIP #1
> aHR0cDovL3d3dy5uZXdzYXJhbWEuY29tL2ltYWdlcy9pLzAwMC8yNzMvNDY1L29yaWdpbmFsL1Blbm55d29ydGhfMTFfY29s.jpg


Detective Annual 3, Pennyworth Rip and the 80th anniversary issue for Robin are the only issues I'm really looking forward to.
I might pick up Teen Titans if what I'm hearing online sounds promising.

But the vast majority of DC books right now? No thank you. I don't have enough trust left to invest money and emotions in this.

----------


## Ansa

> I can't wait to see this with dialogue.


Hm...I guess Damian snuck out alone to beat up some criminals and Alfred dressed up as Batman and went after him, maybe to get him home before Bruce or Dick (Damian is wearing his old costume here, I can't tell who is Batman in this memory) found out and yelled at him.

The panicked look on his face when he thinks he sees the true Batman makes me lean more towards Bruce, but who knows.

----------


## Ansa

> Alright, so I knew I was gonna be pissed off when I read that legion issue, but this is just unfair to the kid. Okay, so he may become evil or whatever in an alternate future, but what Imra made him think was just out of line. Seriously, I really don't see why Bendis is allowed near Damian at all. There should be some type of comic book restraining order against him.


It's pretty obvious at this point that Bendis doesn't like Damian and can't keep himself from being petty. That's highly unprofessional and I don't get why dc does absolutely nothing in such cases.

----------


## Sir Arthur IV

Oh wow. Bendis compared Damian to Hitler. Kudos for the brilliant idea.

----------


## dietrich

> Damian's memory of Alfred, Batman Pennyworth RIP #1
> aHR0cDovL3d3dy5uZXdzYXJhbWEuY29tL2ltYWdlcy9pLzAwMC8yNzMvNDY1L29yaWdpbmFsL1Blbm55d29ydGhfMTFfY29s.jpg


They got Burnham. That's prefect. Thou I would have liked an actual memory not a made up one.

Ansa will be happy at least

----------


## Ansa

> They got Burnham. That's prefect. Thou I would have liked an actual memory not a made up one.
> 
> Ansa will be happy at least


So far I am  :Stick Out Tongue: 
But it's Tynion and Tomasi writing this book, so I was never that worried to begin with. I just wasn't sure what the focus would be, since Bruce has a tendency to claim all the manpain for himself.

----------


## Ansa

Damian looks very sad in the middle. I assume he said something after Barbara and Tim(?) yelled at each other because he's in the center of the panel and everybody is suddenly looking at him.

I had some trouble identifying the guys on this page at first, aside from Damian, but I assume the one with the jacket is Jason, the one with the glasses is Tim and the one with the short hair and the same outfit as Damian is Dick/Ric.

----------


## Ansa

Then Bruce enters the room and probably yells at them for yelling on the day of Alfred's funeral.
Good to see that Damian or someone else in the family is capable of putting ice in a drink without Alfred. There might still be some hope for them.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Then Bruce enters the room and probably yells at them for yelling on the day of Alfred's funeral.
> Good to see that Damian or someone else in the family is capable of putting ice in a drink without Alfred. There might still be some hope for them.


So the last time Dick was at the manor he was traumatised suddenly he's fine? and What is Tim doing back? hopefully he'll not forget that Alfred is dead again.

Where's Selina?

----------


## Ansa

20200116_111038.jpg

I don't know much about the extent of her powers, but manipulating Damian to think he's dreaming this stuff because he's afraid of what he might become is pretty fucked up to me.

----------


## CPSparkles

> 20200116_111038.jpg
> 
> I don't know much about the extent of her powers, but manipulating Damian to think he's dreaming this stuff because he's afraid of what he might become is pretty fucked up to me.


This book isn't going to last long

----------


## Ansa

> So the last time Dick was at the manor he was traumatised suddenly he's fine? and What is Tim doing back? hopefully he'll not forget that Alfred is dead again.
> 
> Where's Selina?


Dick got some of his memories back last issue, maybe he put some things together at this point and didn't want to miss the funeral. Tim's book is a mess in terms of continuity, I'm just glad that he's here.

Couldn't care less about Selina, but there is a page floating around where she is out in the city with Kate, Duke and Cass.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Dick got some of his memories back last issue, maybe he put some things together at this point and didn't want to miss the funeral. Tim's book is a mess in terms of continuity, I'm just glad that he's here.
> 
> Couldn't care less about Selina, but there is a page floating around where she is out in the city with Kate, Duke and Cass.


So Dick no longer thinks Damian and Bruce are sick? That's good at least

So the ones who knew Alfred least are out in town?

----------


## dietrich

These pages of the family are cool but thanks to bendis I can't enjoy it

----------


## Ansa

> So Dick no longer thinks Damian and Bruce are sick? That's good at least
> 
> So the ones who knew Alfred least are out in town?


The preview pages aren't necessarily connected, the pages I posted being the exception.
I just know that there is a story where this group is out in costume doing something and that they are missing on the pages I posted.

----------


## Ansa

> These pages of the family are cool but thanks to bendis I can't enjoy it


Yeah, Bendis pretty much ruined my wednesday.
I still appreciate this preview though.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Dick got some of his memories back last issue, maybe he put some things together at this point and didn't want to miss the funeral. Tim's book is a mess in terms of continuity, I'm just glad that he's here.
> 
> Couldn't care less about Selina, but there is a page floating around where she is out in the city with Kate, Duke and Cass.


Tim is back on earth last YJ issue, but yeah, nobody in the Batfam department cares about YJ continuity.

----------


## Ansa

> Tim is back on earth last YJ issue, but yeah, nobody in the Batfam department cares about YJ continuity.


To be fair, Bendis doesn't care about anyone elses continuity either.

----------


## Shen

> 20200116_111038.jpg
> 
> I don't know much about the extent of her powers, but manipulating Damian to think he's dreaming this stuff because he's afraid of what he might become is pretty fucked up to me.


Yup, this was what I was saying. Bendis is making him sound like the worst human being in history. This comic looked interesting in the beginning, but now it just sucks.

----------


## Shen

> These pages of the family are cool but thanks to bendis I can't enjoy it


Right? This guy just ruins my day.

----------


## Ansa

> Yup, this was what I was saying. Bendis is making him sound like the worst human being in history. This comic looked interesting in the beginning, but now it just sucks.


I never had high hopes for this book because it's written by Bendis and all his main continuity books at DC suffer from the same mistakes that keep me from enjoying his writing.
Originally I thought this would be the same as Superman 16, pandering to Super Sons fans who miss them and then writing them terribly ooc, but otherwise not much harm done.

I didn't expect to wake up to this shit and "Baby Hitler".

----------


## Shen

> Damian looks very sad in the middle. I assume he said something after Barbara and Tim(?) yelled at each other because he's in the center of the panel and everybody is suddenly looking at him.
> 
> I had some trouble identifying the guys on this page at first, aside from Damian, but I assume the one with the jacket is Jason, the one with the glasses is Tim and the one with the short hair and the same outfit as Damian is Dick/Ric.


I thought that Barbara was shouting at Damian, and Tim was pointing at Damian to blame him, because he was gesturing to Damian whilst his head was down.

----------


## Ansa

> I thought that Barbara was shouting at Damian, and Tim was pointing at Damian to blame him, because he was gesturing to Damian whilst his head was down.


It's hard to tell from the pictures alone.
But looking at Damian seems like a sudden action, especially when you look at Tim, so I assume they are reacting to something Damian says in the middle and didn't look at him before.

Or maybe Tim is pointing at Damian? I don't know. I thought they all agreed Thomas was to blame.

----------


## Shen

> I never had high hopes for this book because it's written by Bendis and all his main continuity books at DC suffer from the same mistakes that keep me from enjoying his writing.
> Originally I thought this would be the same as Superman 16, pandering to Super Sons fans who miss them and then writing them terribly ooc, but otherwise not much harm done.
> 
> I didn't expect to wake up to this shit and "Baby Hitler".


I wouldn't have minded the ooc Super Sons dynamic, in fact after all the hype there was for this issue I kinda hoped Bendis wouldn't screw things up and give us at least some decent interactions. This man lives to lower my expectations, it would seem.

----------


## Shen

> It's hard to tell from the pictures alone.
> But looking at Damian seems like a sudden action, especially when you look at Tim, so I assume they are reacting to something Damian says in the middle and didn't look at him before.
> 
> Or maybe Tim is pointing at Damian? I don't know. I thought they all agreed Thomas was to blame.


They did, but I'm guessing they're finally realising the gravity of the situation. Grief makes people say and do things that are regrettable

----------


## Ansa

> I wouldn't have minded the ooc Super Sons dynamic, in fact after all the hype there was for this issue I kinda hoped Bendis wouldn't screw things up and give us at least some decent interactions. This man lives to lower my expectations, it would seem.


I don't mean any offense to Tim fans with this, but after hearing that Tim was his favourite and Damian his least favourite Robin I had some idea what was coming.
And he is the guy who got the original Super Sons book cancelled and aged up Jon. That's pretty much all you need to know.

----------


## Ansa

> They did, but I'm guessing they're finally realising the gravity of the situation. Grief makes people say and do things that are regrettable


Which would be such a shitty thing to do. Damian is only a 13 year old who followed orders. Bruce told him Alfred was safe. He was barely awake when the execution happened...what was he supposed to do against Thomas and Bane?

----------


## Shen

> I don't mean any offense to Tim fans with this, but after hearing that Tim was his favourite and Damian his least favourite Robin I had some idea what was coming.
> And he is the guy who got the original Super Sons book cancelled and aged up Jon. That's pretty much all you need to know.


Yeah I know, not exactly a fan of Tim myself. I did find it really funny when Bendis changed his name from Red Robin to Drake. He even took away the name Damian calls Tim. DC really knows how to pick a guy who can consistently screw up.

----------


## Restingvoice

aaaand this is why I didn't post that page ^^
It's too vague to tell. 

My initial reaction was Tim blaming Damian.
Then it looks like Babs and Tim are fighting and then Tim turned to blame Damian.
But then Ansa said that Damian was the one who said something, and I think you're right because everyone turned to look at him. 

So right now it looks to me Babs and Tim are debating on who's at fault that Alfred died, then Damian said it's his fault so everyone stopped to look at him, and then Bruce came so everyone looked at him. He sits down and said it's his fault because it's his plan.

Finally, Damian tells everyone to shut up because they're not getting anywhere, and takes the initiative to toast for Alfred.

----------


## Shen

> Which would be such a shitty thing to do. Damian is only a 13 year old who followed orders. Bruce told him Alfred was safe. He was barely awake when the execution happened...what was he supposed to do against Thomas and Bane?


I know right? But since the people handling this issue are actually good writers, I'm sure that's not the case. Goddamn now I'm just drowning in angst waiting for this issue to drop.

When does it release anyway?

----------


## Shen

> aaaand this is why I didn't post that page ^^
> It's too vague to tell. 
> 
> My initial reaction was Tim blaming Damian.
> Then it looks like Babs and Tim are fighting and then Tim turned to blame Damian.
> But then Ansa said that Damian was the one who said something, and I think you're right because everyone turned to look at him. 
> 
> So right now it looks to me Babs and Tim are debating on who's at fault that Alfred died, then Damian said it's his fault so everyone stopped to look at him, and then Bruce came so everyone looked at him. He sits down and said it's his fault because it's his plan.
> 
> Finally, Damian tells everyone to shut up because they're not getting anywhere, and takes the initiative to toast for Alfred.


That's... actually a pretty realistic conclusion. Especially Damian telling everyone to shut up.

----------


## Ansa

> I know right? But since the people handling this issue are actually good writers, I'm sure that's not the case. Goddamn now I'm just drowning in angst waiting for this issue to drop.
> 
> When does it release anyway?


February 12.

Yeah, I trust Tynion and Tomasi, which is why I feel this will be the good kind of angst.

----------


## Ansa

> aaaand this is why I didn't post that page ^^
> It's too vague to tell. 
> 
> My initial reaction was Tim blaming Damian.
> Then it looks like Babs and Tim are fighting and then Tim turned to blame Damian.
> But then Ansa said that Damian was the one who said something, and I think you're right because everyone turned to look at him. 
> 
> So right now it looks to me Babs and Tim are debating on who's at fault that Alfred died, then Damian said it's his fault so everyone stopped to look at him, and then Bruce came so everyone looked at him. He sits down and said it's his fault because it's his plan.
> 
> Finally, Damian tells everyone to shut up because they're not getting anywhere, and takes the initiative to toast for Alfred.


That sounds plausible. Damian telling them to shut up is in character as well.

Bruce taking some of the responsibility for Alfred's death (or City of Bane) would be nice.

----------


## Ansa

Even though I have to wonder where Damian suddenly got the drink from. Dick is behind the bar, did he give him the drink between panels as moral support?  :Wink:

----------


## Rac7d*

> I don't mean any offense to Tim fans with this, but after hearing that Tim was his favourite and Damian his least favourite Robin I had some idea what was coming.
> And he is the guy who got the original Super Sons book cancelled and aged up Jon. That's pretty much all you need to know.


I was at NYC comic con when that happened, he said it was his son who loved Tim drake

----------


## Ansa

> I was at NYC comic con when that happened, he said it was his son who loved Tim drake


It seems to have the same results though.

----------


## Shen

> It seems to have the same results though.


It really doesn't matter if he likes Tim or not, he doesn't like Damian - that fact is undisputed.

----------


## redmax99

> Even though I have to wonder where Damian suddenly got the drink from. Dick is behind the bar, did he give him the drink between panels as moral support?


i thought they could be yelling about the drink

----------


## Ansa

> i thought they could be yelling about the drink


You're right, this isn't about Alfred, it's an intervention for Damian's underage drinking habit  :Wink:

----------


## dietrich

> You're right, this isn't about Alfred, it's an intervention for Damian's underage drinking habit


Deathstroke is a horrible influence  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## dietrich

> I was at NYC comic con when that happened, he said it was his son who loved Tim drake


Is it his son who keeps positing those Tim is best Robin Damian sucks on his twitter? 

In today's world to paint the one Robin who is part Arabian as a despot is problematic

----------


## Restingvoice

> Even though I have to wonder where Damian suddenly got the drink from. Dick is behind the bar, did he give him the drink between panels as moral support?


He stayed away from the shouting match the last time Tomasi wrote the fam having a shouting match too and his current girlfriend is a bartender, so yeah XD

----------


## CPSparkles

I wonder how they picked which artist's go with which character?

Damian is the only one that's drawn by an Artist they are associated with. Burnham is odd and freaky with his art but he drew my fav Damian and Alfred in canon story

so he is the perfect fit not to mention he's drawing Damian right now in Arkham Asylum 2

----------


## Ansa

> He stayed away from the shouting match the last time Tomasi wrote the fam having a shouting match too and his current girlfriend is a bartender, so yeah XD


This must be it. The true reason for Ric. To explain his new drink mixing skills!

----------


## Ansa

I can't complain, Damian looks adorable in this panel:

20200116_193718.jpg

----------


## dietrich

> I can't complain, Damian looks adorable in this panel:
> 
> 20200116_193718.jpg


Yeah he does but then again Burnham's Damian is one of my favourites so this is just ticking all the boxes for me

----------


## dietrich

> I wonder how they picked which artist's go with which character?
> 
> Damian is the only one that's drawn by an Artist they are associated with. Burnham is odd and freaky with his art but he drew my fav Damian and Alfred in canon story
> 
> so he is the perfect fit not to mention he's drawing Damian right now in Arkham Asylum 2


This is too adorable for words. He's so cute when drawn by Burnham. So teeny

----------


## Jackalope89

> This is too adorable for words. He's so cute when drawn by Burnham. So teeny


Don't let that fool you. According to Bendis, Damian is baby Hitler. He's just hiding his toothbrush mustache under some make-up.

----------


## dietrich

Talia and Damian





https://twitter.com/glitter_dc


Supersons




https://twitter.com/winterRimyeah

----------


## Frontier

> Talia and Damian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/glitter_dc


It's almost like Damian is staring at his mother's cleavage.

----------


## Rac7d*

> It's almost like Damian is staring at his mother's cleavage.


She was gonna hump Bruce with him watching she don’t care

----------


## CPSparkles

> It's almost like Damian is staring at his mother's cleavage.


lol I was thinking that as well

----------


## CPSparkles

> She was gonna hump Bruce with him watching she don’t care


Na. It's Bruce's other love that likes doing it in the open  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Bri

I hope DC doesn’t ruin Damien by unnecessarily aging him. I think they BOY wonder should remain a boy, and aging ROBIN ages BATMAN and all the supporting characters.
By my unarguably perfect calculations, given the way previous Robins have been aged Bruce Wayne Is at least 65 years old, and Alfred is 128.
It has to stop.

----------


## Blue22

Damian's been around long enough for me to not really mind if they decide to timeskip him older. As long as it's not handled as poorly as Jon was, I'm all for young characters eventually growing up. That's part of the fun of being their fans. Seeing the people they grow up to become. Just look at Franklin Richards, The Runaways, Kitty Pryde, Jubilee, and most of the Teen Titans. It's been a blast seeing those characters' journeys into adulthood or their late teens.

----------


## Fergus

> Oh wow. Bendis compared Damian to Hitler. Kudos for the brilliant idea.


Clearly the LOS members made a mistake. They've mixed up their Robins. Damian has done a lot of bad things but nothing that would warrant that comparison. Tim on the other hand is the only Robin who in canon has gone down the fascist route.

The words of those members doesn't mean anything what matters is canon. It's just a bit dodgy that Bendis tried to pass on his fav Robin's deplorable tendencies onto his least fav.

----------


## Fergus

> Damian's been around long enough for me to not really mind if they decide to timeskip him older. As long as it's not handled as poorly as Jon was, I'm all for young characters eventually growing up. That's part of the fun of being their fans. Seeing the people they grow up to become. Just look at Franklin Richards, The Runaways, Kitty Pryde, Jubilee, and most of the Teen Titans. It's been a blast seeing those characters' journeys into adulthood or their late teens.


The thing with Damian ageing is that the more he ages the more of a problem he becomes. Damian is different from all the characters you listed in that he isn't a super, he's folks aren't supers [where you could say that their powers delay aging] and more importantly he's ageing adversely impacts DC's Cash cow.

Ageing Damian is pointless since we have Tim and Duke currently as the older teens. It makes no sense for there to be 3. Sure we can see stories of older Damian now and again but not as a permanent thing.

----------


## Blue22

oh I agree, there's no reason at all to do it now. Especially since they just kinda did it with Rebirth. But I'm cool with it happening eventually.

----------


## Shen

> Clearly the LOS members made a mistake. They've mixed up their Robins. Damian has done a lot of bad things but nothing that would warrant that comparison. Tim on the other hand is the only Robin who in canon has gone down the fascist route.
> 
> The words of those members doesn't mean anything what matters is canon. It's just a bit dodgy that Bendis tried to pass on his fav Robin's deplorable tendencies onto his least fav.


I think Bendis made reference to Batman 666 when he did this, which is stupid because it's a possible future that MAY happen. That's why Brainiac 5 said they were being unfair to Damian, and that they should be rooting for him. Also the Nuclear Winter issue was pretty good. Damian and Ra's made me laugh and feel sad simultaneously, I just felt sad at Supergirls part.

----------


## Rac7d*

> I hope DC doesn’t ruin Damien by unnecessarily aging him. I think they BOY wonder should remain a boy, and aging ROBIN ages BATMAN and all the supporting characters.
> By my unarguably perfect calculations, given the way previous Robins have been aged Bruce Wayne Is at least 65 years old, and Alfred is 128.
> It has to stop.


Aging him further means Tim generation has too moove

----------


## Aahz

> Ageing Damian is pointless since we have Tim and Duke currently as the older teens. It makes no sense for there to be 3. Sure we can see stories of older Damian now and again but not as a permanent thing.


With 3 former Robin, aging up Damian makes really no sense, Damian would loose what lets him stand out, and if you want to keep the ages somehow logical, you had to age all the current teen characters, which would to lead to even more problems...


I think that DC has reached a point where they can't really have their characters age anymore in the main continuity.

----------


## Ansa

> Aging him further means Tim generation has too moove


Nah, Tim is an immortal wizard. Last time Damian aged three years and Tim is still 16-17.

----------


## Ansa

I'm still waiting for the day Damian is suddenly older than Tim.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Nah, Tim is an immortal wizard. Last time Damian aged three years and Tim is still 16-17.


Exactly he cat get any closer

----------


## CPSparkles

> I think Bendis made reference to Batman 666 when he did this, which is stupid because it's a possible future that MAY happen. That's why Brainiac 5 said they were being unfair to Damian, and that they should be rooting for him. Also the Nuclear Winter issue was pretty good. Damian and Ra's made me laugh and feel sad simultaneously, I just felt sad at Supergirls part.


Batman 666 who exchanged his soul to protect Gotham and who is shown trying to empower the citizens of Gotham? He wasn't anything like Hitler. He was even more diplomatic than current Damian so even if the Hitler was simply to imply that Damian was a dictator then that's not even anywhere close.

I know a lot of fans who haven't read the story do tend to misinterpret that Batman as bad but he wasn't evil. He was a Batman who kills yes so maybe Bats who kill are automatically evil to some. I disagree.

I did enjoy Nuclear Winter. It's sad yet nice seeing Damian finally at peace.

----------


## CPSparkles

> With 3 former Robin, aging up Damian makes really no sense, Damian would loose what lets him stand out, and if you want to keep the ages somehow logical, you had to age all the current teen characters, which would to lead to even more problems...
> 
> 
> I think that DC has reached a point where they can't really have their characters age anymore in the main continuity.


The new Timeline that DC's being teasing [might have even started taking effect from the last WW issue] is aging all characters up to their real time age.

I wonder what that would look like?

----------


## Katana500

1579270009821.jpg

TEEN TITANS #41
written by ADAM GLASS and ROBBIE THOMPSON
art by EDUARDO PANSICA and JULIO FERREIRA
cover by BERNARD CHANG
variant cover by KHARY RANDOLPH
At the gates of heaven itself, the Teen Titans must battle Djinns older brother Elias with the fate of the world hanging in the balance! But victory comes at a terrible costbecause one of the Teen Titans wont be making it back!
ON SALE 04.15.20
$3.99 US | 32 PAGES
FC | DC
This issue will ship with two covers.
Please see the order form for details.

1579270075807.jpg

TEEN TITANS ANNUAL #2
written by ADAM GLASS and ROBBIE THOMPSON
art by JAVIER FERNANDEZ
cover by BERNARD CHANG
After Batman discovers the Teen Titans most shocking secrets, he arrives at Mercy Halland he wants a word with Robin. Dont miss the confrontation between father and son that will alter the very course of the DC Universe. Will the Teen Titans ever be the same?
ON SALE 04.29.20
$4.99 US | 48 PAGES
FC | DC

April solicits!! What could annual 2 mean!

----------


## dietrich

> Batman 666 who exchanged his soul to protect Gotham and who is shown trying to empower the citizens of Gotham? He wasn't anything like Hitler. He was even more diplomatic than current Damian so even if the Hitler was simply to imply that Damian was a dictator then that's not even anywhere close.
> 
> I know a lot of fans who haven't read the story do tend to misinterpret that Batman as bad but he wasn't evil. He was a Batman who kills yes so maybe Bats who kill are automatically evil to some. I disagree.
> 
> I did enjoy Nuclear Winter. It's sad yet nice seeing Damian finally at peace.


Yeah that Batman is not an evil Batman but one that failed to live up to example set by Bruce and Dick [like Bruce told Damian back in Batman and Son Killing is taking the easy way out. It requires more strength to refrain]

He also failed himself which is why when in Nuclear Winter he's finally at peace he refuses to kill Ra's.

----------


## dietrich

> Attachment 91803
> 
> TEEN TITANS #41
> written by ADAM GLASS and ROBBIE THOMPSON
> art by EDUARDO PANSICA and JULIO FERREIRA
> cover by BERNARD CHANG
> variant cover by KHARY RANDOLPH
> At the gates of heaven itself, the Teen Titans must battle Djinn’s older brother Elias with the fate of the world hanging in the balance! But victory comes at a terrible cost—because one of the Teen Titans won’t be making it back!
> ON SALE 04.15.20
> ...


Here we go. Been waiting for this confrontation with Bats. Looks like Jarro just became the official Robin  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Katana500

> Here we go. Been waiting for this confrontation with Bats. Looks like Jarro just became the official Robin


hahahhaha imagine getting replaced by a space starfish thing

----------


## adrikito

> Attachment 91803
> 
> TEEN TITANS #41
> written by ADAM GLASS and ROBBIE THOMPSON
> art by EDUARDO PANSICA and JULIO FERREIRA
> cover by BERNARD CHANG
> variant cover by KHARY RANDOLPH
> At the gates of heaven itself, the Teen Titans must battle Djinns older brother Elias with the fate of the world hanging in the balance! But victory comes at a terrible costbecause one of the Teen Titans wont be making it back!
> ON SALE 04.15.20
> ...


PLEASE.. NOT DJINN.. I want her back.. 
After make him dissapear previouslly I doubt that is roundhouse and Crush is his favorite.


So. Batman finally appears. Bad. bad thing.

----------


## Ansa

> Attachment 91803
> 
> TEEN TITANS #41
> written by ADAM GLASS and ROBBIE THOMPSON
> art by EDUARDO PANSICA and JULIO FERREIRA
> cover by BERNARD CHANG
> variant cover by KHARY RANDOLPH
> At the gates of heaven itself, the Teen Titans must battle Djinns older brother Elias with the fate of the world hanging in the balance! But victory comes at a terrible costbecause one of the Teen Titans wont be making it back!
> ON SALE 04.15.20
> ...


Knowing modern DC, Bruce will finish his hitting Robin bingo.

----------


## Shen

> Batman 666 who exchanged his soul to protect Gotham and who is shown trying to empower the citizens of Gotham? He wasn't anything like Hitler. He was even more diplomatic than current Damian so even if the Hitler was simply to imply that Damian was a dictator then that's not even anywhere close.
> 
> I know a lot of fans who haven't read the story do tend to misinterpret that Batman as bad but he wasn't evil. He was a Batman who kills yes so maybe Bats who kill are automatically evil to some. I disagree.
> 
> I did enjoy Nuclear Winter. It's sad yet nice seeing Damian finally at peace.


Oh yeah I know, trust me. This was me trying to think like a small minded person(Bendis) and that's the best I could come up with as to why the legion were such shitheads in the issue. Saturn Girl really pissed me of when she mind wiped Damian and made him think it was a stress dream as a result of who he becomes. 

As for Batman 666, he was the reason I got to liking Damian as a character, his was a new perspective on Batman that I liked. His entire life was one of sacrifice and pain, making tough decisions for the betterment of others, even sacrificing his soul to protect his father's home.

So yeah, people really do misunderstand who is and what he's done. Even if he kills, that's not evil. Hell, Wonder Woman kills as well.

----------


## Ansa

> Here we go. Been waiting for this confrontation with Bats. Looks like Jarro just became the official Robin


Unpopular opinion: Don't care for Jarro.

----------


## Blue22

Same. And I care even less for this tease of Damian no longer being Robin. Nothing about either of those solicits really excites me. Especially since I'm about 80% sure Djinn is the one who's gonna die.

----------


## adrikito

BATMAN BEYOND #43
written by DAN JURGENS
art by SEAN CHEN and SEAN PARSONS
cover by DUSTIN NGUYEN
variant cover by FRANCIS MANAPUL
Terry McGinnis has his memories back, and he’s ready to resume his duties as Batman in Neo-Gotham. But as soon as he comes home, so does *Goliath, the Man-Bat pet of Damian Wayne*. What adventure with the heir of the Demon lies in store for Batman Beyond?


He will return in Batman Beyond.

Screen Shot  1148.jpg

----------


## Shen

> Attachment 91803
> 
> TEEN TITANS #41
> written by ADAM GLASS and ROBBIE THOMPSON
> art by EDUARDO PANSICA and JULIO FERREIRA
> cover by BERNARD CHANG
> variant cover by KHARY RANDOLPH
> At the gates of heaven itself, the Teen Titans must battle Djinn’s older brother Elias with the fate of the world hanging in the balance! But victory comes at a terrible cost—because one of the Teen Titans won’t be making it back!
> ON SALE 04.15.20
> ...


Oh my, this is gonna be fun. Can just see all the pent-up anger and emotions flying around. With these two, you never know who's gonna hit who. It will alter the course of the DC universe? Yup, Dami's getting fired

----------


## Ansa

> BATMAN BEYOND #43
> written by DAN JURGENS
> art by SEAN CHEN and SEAN PARSONS
> cover by DUSTIN NGUYEN
> variant cover by FRANCIS MANAPUL
> Terry McGinnis has his memories back, and he’s ready to resume his duties as Batman in Neo-Gotham. But as soon as he comes home, so does *Goliath, the Man-Bat pet of Damian Wayne*. What adventure with the heir of the Demon lies in store for Batman Beyond?
> 
> 
> He will return in Batman Beyond.


Omg, Damian was Batwoman Beyond all along!  :Wink: 

No, I didn't follow this book I have no idea. But Goliath showing up in anything is always good. Damian Beyond is a cool concept and he has my favourite adult Damian outfit.

----------


## Digifiend

> Attachment 91803
> 
> TEEN TITANS #41
> written by ADAM GLASS and ROBBIE THOMPSON
> art by EDUARDO PANSICA and JULIO FERREIRA
> cover by BERNARD CHANG
> variant cover by KHARY RANDOLPH
> At the gates of heaven itself, the Teen Titans must battle Djinn’s older brother Elias with the fate of the world hanging in the balance! But victory comes at a terrible cost—because one of the Teen Titans won’t be making it back!
> ON SALE 04.15.20
> ...


So Damian is fired as Robin? EDIT: Ninja'd by Shen.

----------


## Ansa

> Oh my, this is gonna be fun. Can just see all the pent-up anger and emotions flying around. With these two, you never know who's gonna hit who. It will alter the course of the DC universe? Yup, Dami's getting fired


I'm preparing myself to have an even lower opinion on Post-Rebirth Bruce than I already did.

----------


## Jackalope89

Nah, Damian fires Bruce from Batman!

----------


## Katana500

Unless Annual 2 happens in the timeline earlier than Issue 41.

In which case maybe Damian doesn't come back because he chooses to stay with Djinn. Leading into 5G with that being where his long lost sister needs to save him from.

----------


## king81992

> Same. And I care even less for this tease of Damian no longer being Robin. Nothing about either of those solicits really excites me. Especially since I'm about 80% sure Djinn is the one who's gonna die.


I think that at most, Batman forcibly disbands the current roster and Damian goes his own way while keeping the Robin mantle. I suspect that Djin's 'death' will be one of those 'ascend to a higher plane of existence' or 'finally rest in peace' type deal...assuming that the death thing isn't just a fake out. 

But before I go any  further, I need to get this off my chest:I AM SO TIRED OF TEEN TITANS/ TITANS CHARACTERS GETTING KILLED OFF FOR SHOCK VALUE IT IS TRIPE AND HACK WRITING!!! 

I don't even like this roster and I don't want anyone to die. I just want a Titans/TT run with no betrayals or character deaths, just heroes kicking ass and taking names as an actual TEAM.

----------


## Katana500

> I think that at most, Batman forcibly disbands the current roster and Damian goes his own way while keeping the Robin mantle. I suspect that Djin's 'death' will be one of those 'ascend to a higher plane of existence' or 'finally rest in peace' type deal...assuming that the death thing isn't just a fake out. 
> 
> But before I go any  further, I need to get this off my chest:I AM SO TIRED OF TEEN TITANS/ TITANS CHARACTERS GETTING KILLED OFF FOR SHOCK VALUE IT IS TRIPE AND HACK WRITING!!! 
> 
> I don't even like this roster and I don't want anyone to die. I just want a Titans/TT run with no betrayals or character deaths, just heroes kicking ass and taking names as an actual TEAM.


Every time we get a teen titans roster! The time they actually get kinda close and feel like a team its already over!

----------


## Shen

> Nah, Damian fires Bruce from Batman!


This reminds me of Monkey D. Luffy's "I refuse your refusal!"  :Big Grin:

----------


## adrikito

> Unless Annual 2 happens in the timeline earlier than Issue 41.
> 
> In which case maybe Damian doesn't come back because he chooses to stay with Djinn. Leading into 5G with that being where his long lost sister needs to save him from.


I thought that his long lost sister thing was for 2025..  :Wink: 


Ahhh.. I don´t want Djinn dead.. No please.  :Frown:

----------


## Digifiend

> I think that at most, Batman forcibly disbands the current roster and Damian goes his own way while keeping the Robin mantle. I suspect that Djin's 'death' will be one of those 'ascend to a higher plane of existence' or 'finally rest in peace' type deal...assuming that the death thing isn't just a fake out. 
> 
> But before I go any  further, I need to get this off my chest:I AM SO TIRED OF TEEN TITANS/ TITANS CHARACTERS GETTING KILLED OFF FOR SHOCK VALUE IT IS TRIPE AND HACK WRITING!!! 
> 
> I don't even like this roster and I don't want anyone to die. I just want a Titans/TT run with no betrayals or character deaths, just heroes kicking ass and taking names as an actual TEAM.


It doesn't say final issue, so there definitely will be an issue 42. If the team splits, it'll happen there, not in the annual.

----------


## Ansa

I want less depressing stuff in general. I want writers to build something instead of tearing everything down.

For example: Alfred's death. Oh no Bruce is going to be depressed! Too bad he was already depressing to read for the previous 85 issues. The batfamily might fall apart, now that their heart is gone! ...didn't feel like a family for two years now anyway.

In order to make me care about something breaking apart or leaving...you need to build something I care about first.

The only reason I'm picking up Pennyworth Rip and the Detective Comics Annual is because of Tomasi. At least he did some work with Alfred, Bruce and Damian.

----------


## Shen

> Every time we get a teen titans roster! The time they actually get kinda close and feel like a team its already over!


Yeah, DC's really screwing up when it comes to them, and a lot of other comics recently. I don't really know where they're heading with all this.

----------


## dietrich

> hahahhaha imagine getting replaced by a space starfish thing


Well in Justice League Batman does say that Jarro is the best Robin ever. So he would be getting replaced by the Best.

----------


## Shen

> I want less depressing stuff in general. I want writers to build something instead of tearing everything down.
> 
> For example: Alfred's death. Oh no Bruce is going to be depressed! Too bad he was already depressing to read for the previous 85 issues. The batfamily might fall apart, now that their heart is gone! ...didn't feel like a family for two years now anyway.
> 
> The only reason I'm picking up the Pennyworth Rip and Detective Comics Annual is because of Tomasi.


This is actually the most apt description of the current Batfam there is. DC truly aren't building anything, I've been waiting for them to progress so many storylines and characters, but they've actually regressed them instead. 

The only good DC comic I read recently was Batman and the Outsiders.

----------


## dietrich

BATMAN BEYOND #43
written by DAN JURGENS
art by SEAN CHEN and SEAN PARSONS
cover by DUSTIN NGUYEN
variant cover by FRANCIS MANAPUL
Terry McGinnis has his memories back, and he’s ready to resume his duties as Batman in Neo-Gotham. But as soon as he comes home, so does Goliath, the Man-Bat pet of Damian Wayne. What adventure with the heir of the Demon lies in store for Batman Beyond?
ON SALE 04.22.20
$3.99 US | 32 PAGES
FC | DC
This issue will ship with two covers.
Please see the order form for details.

----------


## Korath

I'll be honest. I hope Damian will stop to be Robin, so Bruce has even less authority, even symbolic, over him. Damian doesn't deserve to hear shit from his oh so loving Daddy...

----------


## Ansa

> I'll be honest. I hope Damian will stop to be Robin, so Bruce has even less authority, even symbolic, over him. Damian doesn't deserve to hear shit from his oh so loving Daddy...


The problem is that I don't believe that's the direction DC is going to take with this.
Opposing Batman (No matter how shitty main universe Batman is) automatically means you're wrong and need to be punished.

----------


## Digifiend

> BATMAN BEYOND #43
> written by DAN JURGENS
> art by SEAN CHEN and SEAN PARSONS
> cover by DUSTIN NGUYEN
> variant cover by FRANCIS MANAPUL
> Terry McGinnis has his memories back, and he’s ready to resume his duties as Batman in Neo-Gotham. But as soon as he comes home, so does Goliath, the Man-Bat pet of Damian Wayne. What adventure with the heir of the Demon lies in store for Batman Beyond?
> ON SALE 04.22.20
> $3.99 US | 32 PAGES
> FC | DC
> ...


That was already posted.



> BATMAN BEYOND #43
> written by DAN JURGENS
> art by SEAN CHEN and SEAN PARSONS
> cover by DUSTIN NGUYEN
> variant cover by FRANCIS MANAPUL
> Terry McGinnis has his memories back, and he’s ready to resume his duties as Batman in Neo-Gotham. But as soon as he comes home, so does *Goliath, the Man-Bat pet of Damian Wayne*. What adventure with the heir of the Demon lies in store for Batman Beyond?
> 
> 
> He will return in Batman Beyond.
> ...

----------


## Shen

> I'll be honest. I hope Damian will stop to be Robin, so Bruce has even less authority, even symbolic, over him. Damian doesn't deserve to hear shit from his oh so loving Daddy...


I've actually thought about this, and whilst I agree to an extent, I still think he's got a few years as Robin ahead of him. One of the points of becoming Robin is that it's a stage they go through in order to mature. They develop into the people they'll be in future, and with the way some people write Damian, it's gonna be a little while longer before he leaves the nest.

----------


## dietrich

> Unpopular opinion: Don't care for Jarro.



I can't help but find him cute and bruce is good with him.
I like his interactions with Batman. I don't like the best Robin thing. Yeah it's a gag but especially after All Star's Batman creating something better than Robin. 
A Joke can go too far.

However it's not on Synder to write Batman as a better father to his kids that's on the Batbooks writers. Bruce can be written as positively as he is in JL. He just isn't.

----------


## dietrich

> The problem is that I don't believe that's the direction DC is going to take with this.
> Opposing Batman (No matter how shitty main universe Batman is) automatically means you're wrong and need to be punished.


This is sadly the truth.

----------


## dietrich

> That was already posted.


oops

10 characters

----------


## Shen

> I can't help but find him cute and bruce is good with him.
> I like his interactions with Batman. I don't like the best Robin thing. Yeah it's a gag but especially after All Star's Batman creating something better than Robin. 
> A Joke can go too far.
> 
> However it's not on Synder to write Batman as a better father to his kids that's on the Batbooks writers. Bruce can be written as positively as he is in JL. He just isn't.


Yeah, the writers are the ones who dictate how Bruce reacts. 

I also find him(jarro) kinda cute, but calling him the best Robin? Nah, Dami said it best - Big D and Lil D were the greatest.

----------


## Ansa

> This is sadly the truth.


And if they do end up having a physical fight Batman is going to win. Damian couldn't even win against Jason in this book. Unless his team helps him he's fucked.

----------


## Digifiend

> I've actually thought about this, and whilst I agree to an extent, I still think he's got a few years as Robin ahead of him. One of the points of becoming Robin is that it's a stage they go through in order to mature. They develop into the people they'll be in future, and with the way some people write Damian, it's gonna be a little while longer before he leaves the nest.


And if he did stop being Robin for good, you'd think that story would happen in either Batman or Detective, not Teen Titans. While Dick did retire as Robin in New Teen Titans, there was special circumstances there - the Bat editors wanted to take him back and de-age him. Marv Wolfman told them to make a new Robin instead - something that hadn't happened since the silver age heroes replaced the golden age ones (i.e. Flash, Green Lantern, and over at Marvel, Human Torch). So Dick became Nightwing and Jason Todd was created to take over as Robin. Nowadays, you wouldn't expect that sort of thing to happen, so if Damian is stripped of his mantle, it won't be permanent.

----------


## Shen

> And if they do end up having a physical fight Batman is going to win. Damian couldn't even win against Jason in this book. Unless his team helps him he's fucked.


You realise that Damian is one of the most dangerous people on the planet, but he almost always loses when in it counts. That's DC making use of their favorite plot tool.

----------


## Ansa

Another problem is that after that "Drake" situation I don't think the writers have currently any good ideas for ex-Robins identities left.

----------


## dietrich

> I've actually thought about this, and whilst I agree to an extent, I still think he's got a few years as Robin ahead of him. One of the points of becoming Robin is that it's a stage they go through in order to mature. They develop into the people they'll be in future, and with the way some people write Damian, it's gonna be a little while longer before he leaves the nest.


This is true but he's also a minor who needs supervision. 
Damian has gone off the rails regardless of his best intentions or the fact that he's doing what we saw Bruce doing in his title.

They are both at fault. Damian needs to regain Batman's trust and Bruce needs to regain his position as respected authority figure. Damian lost faith in the grown up heroes which led him to try harsher more permanent solutions. He doesn't have faith in Batman's methods and believes that Bruce is too pre-occupied to notice his activities.

The fact that it took Bruce this long to find out pretty much says it all about how bad he failed in both his duties as parent and mentor.

What happened to Batman having eyes on everyone? It was established in different titles that he has all sorts of eyes on Damian.

----------


## Shen

> And if he did stop being Robin for good, you'd think that story would happen in either Batman or Detective, not Teen Titans. While Dick did retire as Robin in New Teen Titans, there was special circumstances there - the Bat editors wanted to take him back and de-age him. Marv Wolfman told them to make a new Robin instead - something that hadn't happened since the silver age heroes replaced the golden age ones (i.e. Flash, Green Lantern, and over at Marvel, Human Torch). So Dick became Nightwing and Jason Todd was created to take over as Robin. Nowadays, you wouldn't expect that sort of thing to happen, so if Damian is stripped of his mantle, it won't be permanent.


Yeah, but DC truly enjoys doing things us fans wouldn't expect nowadays, be it for better or worse. Damian losing the Robin mantle now would feel kinda rushed though, I mean he just became a teenager a little while ago.

----------


## Ansa

> This is true but he's also a minor who needs supervision. 
> Damian has gone off the rails regardless of his best intentions or the fact that he's doing what we saw Bruce doing in his title.
> 
> They are both to Blame. Damian needs to regain Batman's trust and Bruce needs to regain his position as respected authority figure. Damian lost faith in the grown up heroes which led him to try harsher more permanent solutions. He doesn't have faith in Batman's methods and believes that Bruce is too pre-occupied to notice his activities


I mean...Bruce was too pre-occupied to notice anything for a long time. World's greatest detective, but doesn't know what his own son does.
Father of the year.

----------


## Korath

> Another problem is that after that "Drake" situation I don't think the writers have currently any good ideas for ex-Robins identities left.


Bloodbat. A double entendre o, him being a blood relative of the Batman, but also a take on Bloodbath, because it is something he doesn't do anymore. It's not that hard. If I knew how to draw, I'd even try my hand at a fan art !

----------


## Shen

> This is true but he's also a minor who needs supervision. 
> Damian has gone off the rails regardless of his best intentions or the fact that he's doing what we saw Bruce doing in his title.
> 
> They are both to Blame. Damian needs to regain Batman's trust and Bruce needs to regain his position as respected authority figure. Damian lost faith in the grown up heroes which led him to try harsher more permanent solutions. He doesn't have faith in Batman's methods and believes that Bruce is too pre-occupied to notice his activities


That's actually the premise of how this Teen Titans run started. You're right about them needing to regain their standings with one another. I just hope DC allow them to do something constructive with their relationship, especially now with Alfred gone

----------


## Shen

> Bloodbat. A double entendre o, him being a blood relative of the Batman, but also a take on Bloodbath, because it is something he doesn't do anymore. It's not that hard. If I knew how to draw, I'd even try my hand at a fan art !


Holy- that's a great name! I was thinking something along the lines of Dreadwing or something. I know that in one of the comics his name was Red bird though.

----------


## dietrich

> And if they do end up having a physical fight Batman is going to win. Damian couldn't even win against Jason in this book. Unless his team helps him he's fucked.


You mean if they end up communicating :Stick Out Tongue:  Hopefully there'll be no need to coded Bat talk

----------


## Ansa

Nah, you know what? Scratch that new identity stuff. The other solicitations about Batman speak of him losing something dear (shocking!) and him going over the edge.

Let's make him even edgier and dumber and have him... *spins the stupid dc ideas wheel* hit Damian in the face, making him trip and break his neck on a conveniently placed rock, removing him from the story. Wait...

----------


## Ansa

> You mean if they end up communicating Hopefully there'll be no need to coded Bat talk


Oh yeah, I forgot. It's all a code. Probably for "I love you son".

----------


## dietrich

> Bloodbat. A double entendre o, him being a blood relative of the Batman, but also a take on Bloodbath, because it is something he doesn't do anymore. It's not that hard. If I knew how to draw, I'd even try my hand at a fan art !


I like Bloodbat.

----------


## dietrich

> Nah, you know what? Scratch that new identity stuff. The other solicitations about Batman speak of him losing something dear (shocking!) and him going over the edge.
> 
> Let's make him even edgier and dumber and have him... *spins the stupid dc ideas wheel* hit Damian in the face, making him trip and break his neck on a conveniently placed rock, removing him from the story. Wait...


low blow. I'm still feeling that. They did Dick Grayson dirty with that

----------


## Ansa

> low blow. I'm still feeling that. They did Dick Grayson dirty with that


Okay, okay, he doesn't die, he gets amnesia and starts calling himself Ian.

----------


## dietrich

> Oh my, this is gonna be fun. Can just see all the pent-up anger and emotions flying around. With these two, you never know who's gonna hit who. It will alter the course of the DC universe? Yup, Dami's getting fired


Robin getting fired will alter the DCU! lol no it won't.

----------


## Shen

> Nah, you know what? Scratch that new identity stuff. The other solicitations about Batman speak of him losing something dear (shocking!) and him going over the edge.
> 
> Let's make him even edgier and dumber and have him... *spins the stupid dc ideas wheel* hit Damian in the face, making him trip and break his neck on a conveniently placed rock, removing him from the story. Wait...


...

Ansa, you're a genius!

----------


## dietrich

> Okay, okay, he doesn't die, he gets amnesia and starts calling himself Ian.


haha I really won't put that past DC. Won't be the 1st time other Robins borrowed from the OG

----------


## Shen

> Robin getting fired will alter the DCU! lol no it won't.


It will when ge gets replaced by a starfish  :Big Grin:

----------


## Ansa

> ...
> 
> Ansa, you're a genius!


Thanks, DC should hire me. I will build something better than the bat-family- I will create the Ric-family!

----------


## Ansa

> haha I really won't put that past DC. Won't be the 1st time other Robins borrowed from the OG


And Dick borrowed it from Bruce. Who borrowed it from a soap opera, just without the fun.

----------


## Shen

> Thanks, DC should hire me. I will build something better than the bat-family- I will create the Ric-family!


Ric and Ian, I can see it now. 

The best of the best, finally back together again.

----------


## Ansa

> Ric and Ian, I can see it now. 
> 
> The best of the best, finally back together again.


DC isn't tanking fast enough, I've got to speed this shit up.

----------


## Ansa

On a more serious note though: If I could believe that DC had something good in store for Damian after he leaves the Robin mantle behind (willingly or after getting fired) I could be interested in those changes.

But everything I have learned about how DC treats Damian and what they do with characters that don't obey Batman, I'm afraid this will just be an excuse for DC to shit on him.

----------


## Ansa

Seriously, at this point Bruce could probably punch Damian to mush and DC would find a way to blame Damian for it and to continue calling Bruce a hero.

----------


## Shen

> On a more serious note though: If I could believe that DC had something good in store for Damian after he leaves the Robin mantle behind (willingly or after getting fired) I could be interested in those changes.
> 
> But everything I have learned about how DC treats Damian and what they do with characters that don't obey Batman, I'm afraid this will just be an excuse for DC to shit on him.


I know how you feel, I'd love to see Damian's character develop further. I mean he has so much potential, so many things he's capable of doing, yet DC always regress him back to the angry 10 year old in these moments. DC shits on Dami all the time, what I admire most about him is how he can take that shit and still move forward.

----------


## Shen

> Seriously, at this point Bruce could probably punch Damian to mush and DC would find a way to blame Damian for it and to continue calling Bruce a hero.


I mean, Damian would forgive him. He forgave Talia for basically killing him. Then Dami would blame himself and keep getting sadder and angrier, and so the DC wheel of torturing him would revolve and repeat all over again.

----------


## Ansa

> I mean, Damian would forgive him. He forgave Talia for basically killing him. Then Dami would blame himself and keep getting sadder and angrier, and so the DC wheel of torturing him would revolve and repeat all over again.


It's not about Damian forgiving him. I wish Bruce would start thinking about all the crap he put his family through and it would be nice if the others would start calling him out too. I want to see a better Batman.
That's never going to happen though.

And as I said in a previous post: I'm sick of depressing stories and I'm sick of everything getting destroyed instead of built.

5G doesn't sound exciting, sometimes I ask myself why I'm still sticking around.

----------


## Digifiend

> This is true but he's also a minor who needs supervision. 
> Damian has gone off the rails regardless of his best intentions or the fact that he's doing what we saw Bruce doing in his title.
> 
> They are both at fault. Damian needs to regain Batman's trust and Bruce needs to regain his position as respected authority figure. Damian lost faith in the grown up heroes which led him to try harsher more permanent solutions. He doesn't have faith in Batman's methods and believes that Bruce is too pre-occupied to notice his activities.
> 
> The fact that it took Bruce this long to find out pretty much says it all about how bad he failed in both his duties as parent and mentor.
> 
> What happened to Batman having eyes on everyone? It was established in different titles that he has all sorts of eyes on Damian.


Ric happened. Dick was probably those eyes.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I mean, Damian would forgive him. He forgave Talia for basically killing him. Then Dami would blame himself and keep getting sadder and angrier, and so the DC wheel of torturing him would revolve and repeat all over again.


They kept the victim blaming for Jason Todd, even after he came back to life. So sadly, there is precedent.

----------


## dietrich

> Ric happened. Dick was probably those eyes.


Which is another failure on Bruce's part. Damian is Bruce;s responsibility not Dick's.

The thing is that it's down to the writer of TT for deciding to go in this direction. They could have written Damian's crisis and Bruce's character better but they went in this direction on purpose. They wanted to write this story.

The involvement of other writers e.g Priest and Tomasi lead me to believe that editorial approved it.

It makes it hard to 100% feel pissed at Bruce since we have so many versions which contradict each other.

After Metal and all the emphasis it placed on how much his kids mean to Bruce. So much that he's love, loss and regret at loving them so much resulted in 3 evil Batmen. Was the reason why the BatGod could trap him for so long and was the key to old Bruce who had given up finding the strength to break out of the Lotus machine thingy.

I'm struggling to fully view Bruce as harshly as I should just based on TT.


unpopular opinion I can see where those who blame the family for Batman being written as unlikable get that idea but it's on the creatives and those in charge. I'm more pissed at them.

Trying to come at this as objectivly as poss to stop me being so annoyed.

----------


## dietrich

> They kept the victim blaming for Jason Todd, even after he came back to life. So sadly, there is precedent.


If Batman wasn't teflon he'd be more of an anti hero rather than a hero.

----------


## king81992

> Well in Justice League Batman does say that Jarro is the best Robin ever. So he would be getting replaced by the Best.


Jarro is a cute meme that's starting to overstay its welcome.

----------


## king81992

> If Batman wasn't teflon he'd be more of an anti hero rather than a hero.


Batman is an anti hero at best, at worst he's a broken 'hero' who can't save anyone.

The problem is that DC refuses to admit that Batman is an anti hero because that would involve taking responsibility for all the sketchy decisions they've made regarding his character and reconsider the possibility that making him the center of their universe( Doomsday Clock would have readers believe it's Superman, but readers know otherwise) was a terrible idea.

----------


## shadow6743

I know some people thing Djinn's going to die but I actually think it's going to be Roundhouse. It makes more sense from a story perspective so he can finally fully redeem himself and Djinn's character is still needed for the romantic subplot. Also, Djinn's story is about finding out who she is as a person and getting her own identity. I highly doubt Glass would kill her off before allowing the character to have that growth. But death allows Roundhouse to have some sort of redemption and die a hero. If you think about it his death was foreshadowed in the earliest issues of this run. I am not worried about Djinn I think from a plot standpoint it's clear Roundhouse is going to die. Also Glass seems to be taking inspiration from older Teen Titans runs and Terra the first Judas in Teen Titans history doesn't make it out alive.

----------


## dietrich

> Batman is an anti hero at best, at worst he's a broken 'hero' who can't save anyone.
> 
> The problem is that DC refuses to admit that Batman is an anti hero because that would involve taking responsibility for all the sketchy decisions they've made regarding his character and reconsider the possibility that making him the center of their universe( Doomsday Clock would have readers believe it's Superman, but readers know otherwise) was a terrible idea.


See I know that and I've always known that but for whatever reason I always saw this arc leading to Damian sees/is made to see that he's going about this the wrong way, learn his lesson and grow from this. Perhaps he opens up some more sharing the emotions and feelings that we haven't really seen him express through out this run.

That's how I saw it and suddenly I'm reminded that that's not how it usually goes. 
I was looking forward to this but now I'm just annoyed at the very likely outcome that this is going to be one sided and key factors ignored.

----------


## dietrich

> I know some people thing Djinn's going to die but I actually think it's going to be Roundhouse. It makes more sense from a story perspective so he can finally fully redeem himself and Djinn's character is still needed for the romantic subplot. Also, Djinn's story is about finding out who she is as a person and getting her own identity. I highly doubt Glass would kill her off before allowing the character to have that growth. But death allows Roundhouse to have some sort of redemption and die a hero. If you think about it his death was foreshadowed in the earliest issues of this run. I am not worried about Djinn I think from a plot standpoint it's clear Roundhouse is going to die. Also Glass seems to be taking inspiration from older Teen Titans runs and Terra the first Judas in Teen Titans history doesn't make it out alive.


Isn't Glass leaving? I hope Djinn doesn't die as well

----------


## Restingvoice

> Which is another failure on Bruce's part. Damian is Bruce;s responsibility not Dick's.
> 
> The thing is that it's down to the writer of TT for deciding to go in this direction. They could have written Damian's crisis and Bruce's character better but they went in this direction on purpose. They wanted to write this story.
> 
> The involvement of other writers e.g Priest and Tomasi lead me to believe that editorial approved it.
> 
> It makes it hard to 100% feel pissed at Bruce since we have so many versions which contradict each other.
> 
> After Metal and all the emphasis it placed on how much his kids mean to Bruce. So much that he's love, loss and regret at loving them so much resulted in 3 evil Batmen. Was the reason why the BatGod could trap him for so long and was the key to old Bruce who had given up finding the strength to break out of the Lotus machine thingy.
> ...


How many Good Bruce issues are there compared to Bad Bruce? 
Give extra points for the one with higher sales because they're the one that gets more exposure
That's how I decide it.

----------


## dietrich

> How many Good Bruce issues are there compared to Bad Bruce? 
> Give extra points for the one with higher sales because they're the one that gets more exposure
> That's how I decide it.


Good Bruce

Metal
Dceased
Green Arrow
Taylor's Tec
Superman
Supersons
Shadow/Batman
Batman/TMNT


Bad Bruce
Rebirth Tec
Nightwing
King's Batman
Titans
RHATO
TT
HIC

That's all I can think of. might be missing some. The rest are neutral or too subjective though I thought BB, Deathstroke and Outsiders are fine. [went for whole runs rather than issues]

As I said I'm trying to look at thing's objectively to ease my annoyance. I'm not really expecting to change anyone's mind

----------


## shadow6743

Yeah Glass is leaving but he created Roundhouse as this traitor character and I can't see anything else set up for him other than trying to give the character redemption for what he did to team through his death. I mean that makes sense to me especially since he is the reason Djinn is in this situation in the first place. Glass has set up things for Djinn that can go beyond Djinn War but Roundhouse not so much. Djinn war is his last arc from what I heard so I think he is going to kill Roundhouse at end of that arc.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Good Bruce
> 
> Metal
> Dceased
> Green Arrow
> Taylor's Tec
> Superman
> Supersons
> Shadow/Batman
> ...


Remind me why Bruce is bad in HiC?

Metal, King's Batman, HiC and JL are the biggest ones. How's the one in JL? Including No Justice, because while Metal is big, it's a limited series. King's Batman is both big and long.

----------


## Fergus

The fallout from Teen Titans Annual pretty much takes care of one of the obstacles between Luke and the Cowl.
It also gives a viable reason to Bruce stepping back from Batman duties. King's Batman pretty much sets it up. Thomas asked Bruce to be a father to his son. Not to mention that having lost 1 father and in light of everything Thomas put him through to ensure Bruce doesn't make his mistakes [Bruce sending Damian into Gotham was tactical in light of Thomas' goal not reckless]. Bruce right now looking inwards. Taking a look at his relationship with his sons and asking himself some serious questions about what kind of father he's been? What type of life would his sons have in the future.

Bruce is rebuilding Gotham. If he had any type of heart or brain he'd also realise that other more important things need rebuilding as well.

All the emotional pummelling, angst, shootings, beating's and the Knightmares  the Bats have dealt with can be turned into a positive Rebirth of the Batfamily if DC has Bruce take steps to heal and rebuild whats fractured in his relationshipwith ALL his sons.

----------


## Digifiend

> I know some people thing Djinn's going to die but I actually think it's going to be Roundhouse. It makes more sense from a story perspective so he can finally fully redeem himself and Djinn's character is still needed for the romantic subplot.


You do realise that the current team is almost certainly done after April's issues? All plots are getting wrapped up. Either May is the final issue (April's solicits don't say Final Issue, so there's at least one more) or we're getting a new roster. Robin and whoever dies will need to be replaced.

----------


## king81992

> Remind me why Bruce is bad in HiC?
> 
> Metal, King's Batman, HiC and JL are the biggest ones. How's the one in JL? Including No Justice, because while Metal is big, it's a limited series. King's Batman is both big and long.


All the members of the Trinity were bad in Heroes In Crisis. They set up a psychiatric facility with no professional supervision.

----------


## Digifiend

And the consequences? A bunch of dead heroes, including Roy Harper.

----------


## sifighter

Personally in the past few months I’ve been thinking maybe it would be better if Damian was put on the JSA instead of the teen titans. Clearly DC has shown that when it comes to the teen titans Damian has some issues with people of his own age, and honestly I think it would be a much better benefit to put Damian with a group of elder statesmen of the dc universe who have been around a long time and have dealt with teenagers with attitudes and have helped progress them as better heroes. Plus it would put Damian in a much different team dynamic, one where he’s not the leader or the tactician because everyone leading the team is older and more experienced and it would be decades before Damian could even think of being in the chairman position. That way he can just learn to work on a team with people, not as some destined leader because his father is Batman but as teammates and friends.

----------


## Zaresh

> Personally in the past few months I’ve been thinking maybe it would be better if Damian was put on the JSA instead of the teen titans. Clearly DC has shown that when it comes to the teen titans Damian has some issues with people of his own age, and honestly I think it would be a much better benefit to put Damian with a group of elder statesmen of the dc universe who have been around a long time and have dealt with teenagers with attitudes and have helped progress them as better heroes. Plus it would put Damian in a much different team dynamic, one where he’s not the leader or the tactician because everyone leading the team is older and more experienced and it would be decades before Damian could even think of being in the chairman position. That way he can just learn to work on a team with people, not as some destined leader because his father is Batman but as teammates and friends.


I would read that.

----------


## dietrich

> Personally in the past few months IÂ’ve been thinking maybe it would be better if Damian was put on the JSA instead of the teen titans. Clearly DC has shown that when it comes to the teen titans Damian has some issues with people of his own age, and honestly I think it would be a much better benefit to put Damian with a group of elder statesmen of the dc universe who have been around a long time and have dealt with teenagers with attitudes and have helped progress them as better heroes. Plus it would put Damian in a much different team dynamic, one where heÂ’s not the leader or the tactician because everyone leading the team is older and more experienced and it would be decades before Damian could even think of being in the chairman position. That way he can just learn to work on a team with people, not as some destined leader because his father is Batman but as teammates and friends.


Damian has no problems working with age mates, making friends. Supersons played up the parodies of their dads for comedy.

His past and stories show this over and over
Streets of Gotham
Gotham Academy
Robin Son of Batman
batman and Robin Annual [short interactions with characters his own age]

Are some examples that show that this isn't the case and never was.

He has poor social skills and is emotionally stunned kinda but he's never had issues dealing with characters his age under various writers.

Damian on the Jsa would be like in No Justice, Metal, Leviathan, Batman, GA, Deathstroke. That is when he's need to prove himself kicks in some adults aren't sensitive enough to see through to the insecurities that drive it. Others aren't patient enough or lack the skills to effectively get past this. 

Lol His complexies aren't anything to do with Batman or his father.  It's a conditioned behaviour from his LOA upbringing. Everything is earned including your right to life [TT showed that every step up the ladder you have to do so by defeating and drinking the blood of the one whose place you take], You have to prove your worth there's such thing as conditional love, information or any advantage is fought and paid for in blood like it took him years of fighting his mum every Birthday to learn who his dad was.
Damian has had it drilled into him that he has to be better, perfect, never fail or disappoint else he would be replaced by the numerous clones of him. His mum did just that with Heretic and killed him. This was after disowning him and putting a bounty on his head and hijacking his body to kill Grayson. 

If his problem was simply his father's shadow then Damian wouldn't be as messed up or have have the   issues/insecurities he has.

Sometimes attitudes are a mask for severe emotional abuse. Sometimes they are symptoms of or coping/conditioned behaviour due to lord know what in past experiences.

Well adjusted confident people with healthy balanced hormone levels rarely have cop an attitude.

----------


## Ansa

> The fallout from Teen Titans Annual pretty much takes care of one of the obstacles between Luke and the Cowl.
> It also gives a viable reason to Bruce stepping back from Batman duties. King's Batman pretty much sets it up. Thomas asked Bruce to be a father to his son. Not to mention that having lost 1 father and in light of everything Thomas put him through to ensure Bruce doesn't make his mistakes [Bruce sending Damian into Gotham was tactical in light of Thomas' goal not reckless]. Bruce right now looking inwards. Taking a look at his relationship with his sons and asking himself some serious questions about what kind of father he's been? What type of life would his sons have in the future.
> 
> Bruce is rebuilding Gotham. If he had any type of heart or brain he'd also realise that other more important things need rebuilding as well.
> 
> All the emotional pummelling, angst, shootings, beating's and the Knightmares  the Bats have dealt with can be turned into a positive Rebirth of the Batfamily if DC has Bruce take steps to heal and rebuild whats fractured in his relationshipwith ALL his sons.


That's what I would like to happen, but I'm too much of a pessimist to believe in it.

It would be nice if Bruce would realise that with Alfred gone and Dick still not being back to normal it's 100% his responsibility to keep the family together (it should have been his responsibility to begin with, but you all know how dc is) and to raise his son. That while what Damian did was wrong, it was only possible because Bruce failed him as a mentor and father. That beating the crap out of him or firing him is not gonna teach him to solve his problems with less extreme methods.

But after all that shock value crap in King's Batman run, Bruce's non reaction to Damian leaving him after No Justice, how brutally Bruce beat Jason in RHatO without listening to his side of the story first and how badly Glass set up the confrontation between Jason and Damian in Teen Titans...I'm too aftraid we'll get a mash up of the last TT annual and RHatO instead of something like the beginning of Tomasi's Batman and Robin where Bruce was willing to forgive, listen and work on himself too.

----------


## Ansa

> All the members of the Trinity were bad in Heroes In Crisis. They set up a psychiatric facility with no professional supervision.


And after they reopened it with apparently no changes to the facility Bruce sent every single one of his children to the murder place.
This is why you need editors. To prevent your heroes from looking like villains on accident.

----------


## Ansa

Of course Damian having a confrontation with Bruce and deciding for himself that he has had enough of Bruce as a father/mentor and doesn't want to be his Robin anymore would be an interesting direction for both of them. Damian having a chance to distance himself from that whole blood/legacy/heir stuff and Bruce getting a reason to overthink his priorities.

But again...DC loves shock value, loves the "Damian will turn evil" angle and loves coming up with reasons for why Bruce hitting his children is a-ok.
DC always takes Bruce's side, no matter how shitty the writer makes him act and I don't expect this to be any different, if this issue should really mark the end of Damian as Robin.

----------


## Korath

Honestly it seems that there is really something big coming for Damian. Too many hints in too many books for April to be just one more month were he's acting unsupervised.

----------


## Fergus

The upcoming JSA is gonna be written by Synder right? If so then worst place for Damian. 

Synder's Damian is extra with the snarky comments and sass mouth. He sassed most of the cast in all issues of Metal he featured on WW, Hawkgirl,etc same on No Justice from Fate to Brainaic to Jo'nn. He trolled Joker so bad he lost his cool, confessed to his inability to make anyone laugh without drugs [aside from Bats] in DOTF and they indulge him.

His damian is rude not insecure or trying to prove his worth. He's funny though. He's not going to learn though

----------


## Ansa

> Batman is an anti hero at best, at worst he's a broken 'hero' who can't save anyone.
> 
> The problem is that DC refuses to admit that Batman is an anti hero because that would involve taking responsibility for all the sketchy decisions they've made regarding his character and reconsider the possibility that making him the center of their universe( Doomsday Clock would have readers believe it's Superman, but readers know otherwise) was a terrible idea.


That's why I'm struggling with Bruce so much. It would be okay if DC would own it and admit that all the shit he does makes him an anti-hero. Instead they let writers get away with Bruce's bad actions, say it's okay because "He's Batman and while his methods are sketchy everyone knows it's going to be fine in the end, because he's Batman" and continue calling him a hero.

Like...Sometimes it feels like his actions are supposed to be good simply because he's Batman and not because they are actually good.

Either write him as an ass and own it or write him as a better hero and person.

----------


## Fergus

Damian was going to give up Robin for the duration of 5G that was a given but he'll be back in the role. This does it in a way that isn't in anyway to do with Luke [DC want's as many fans on board and open minded] it's also a resolution to his experimenting on TT's arc

If DC has Bruce only rebuilding Gotham after everything then he's a lost case. It couldn't be more clear what his fightt with Thomas, Alfred's loss, Dick, Jason Tim and Damian's current states and fallouts with him are alluding to.

Tim clearly isn't thinking clearly, Jason is not quite but almost mentoring baddies while his dodgy dad is hoovering, Damian has a prison [Jason did too] is mind wiping baddies and Slade of all people is looking to be his dad. Dick was shot and Bruce thought he was faking his memory loss then tried to force his memory back by showing him traumatic video's and leaping out of the dark at him. Any wonder he rejected it all favouring happy memories of his mum as Richard. I don't even think Bruce and Damian respected his needs enough to call him Richard in that annual 

Alfred isn't around to guilt the family into ignoring all. Bruce needs to check in on his sons. King promised changes well  a healthier Batfamily and a Batdad who's putting a little effort in and embracing the joy of family

----------


## Ansa

> Alfred isn't around to guilt the family into ignoring all. Bruce needs to check in on his sons. King promised changes well  a healthier Batfamily and a Batdad who's putting a little effort in and embracing the joy of family


Er...you do remember that King is also the guy who wrote Bruce as viewing his kids as his "loyal soldiers", only used them as cannon fodder and made it pretty clear his Bruce only needed Selina to be happy. Damian wasn't even in the second annual. I wouldn't be suprised if King only meant Bruce is going to be a better father for Helena in Batman and Catwoman.
And from what I heard it's not even clear anymore if that book is still going to be canon.
Fact is, important changes will happen in the main book, in Tynions run. King said so. That doesn't fit with the other promises he made for his book. Combined with the delays, I don't think anything that King says is important for main continuity Batman anymore.

----------


## king81992

> And after they reopened it with apparently no changes to the facility Bruce sent every single one of his children to the murder place.
> This is why you need editors. To prevent your heroes from looking like villains on accident.


At this point, I'm convinced that the DC editors are sanctioning this sketchy stuff and don't care how the heroes are portrayed.

----------


## Restingvoice

> All the members of the Trinity were bad in Heroes In Crisis. They set up a psychiatric facility with no professional supervision.


Oh, that's the general stupidity. I thought there's something more specific. Something like that is wrong on the base story concept, so I don't know if I can count it.

----------


## sifighter

> Damian has no problems working with age mates, making friends. Supersons played up the parodies of their dads for comedy.
> 
> His past and stories show this over and over
> Streets of Gotham
> Gotham Academy
> Robin Son of Batman
> batman and Robin Annual [short interactions with characters his own age]
> 
> Are some examples that show that this isn't the case and never was.
> ...


You know that is equally a valid opinion, especially since I do agree a lot of it comes from his upbringing. I think a case can be said that it does depend on the writer to see how good Damian is at dealing with people, as I really liked his Solo series run and super sons.

Either way I kind of just hope that with the annual and 5G coming up that Damian is still doing good, either on a team or even on his own.

----------


## Shen

> Damian has no problems working with age mates, making friends. Supersons played up the parodies of their dads for comedy.
> 
> His past and stories show this over and over
> Streets of Gotham
> Gotham Academy
> Robin Son of Batman
> batman and Robin Annual [short interactions with characters his own age]
> 
> Are some examples that show that this isn't the case and never was.
> ...


It truly astounds me when us as fans and readers can understand a character better than the people responsible for their progression in a story. It's true that Damian is hard to get to get close to, but after everything he's been through you also wouldn't be all Sunshine and Roses (and this was before he went to Gotham). Most people who do get to know him begin to understand him for who he really is, unlike the people who write him - who just go off their perspective of the character. 

I just want DC to get a writer who understands the character, his flaws and his shortcomings - and can progressively work to remedy the emotional damage he sustained for years, instead of just ignoring the fact that he'd been raised in hell on earth. 

Some writers just ignore this and go - "Oh he's Damian, the brat who's always mean and wants to show off." 

But I guess with the direction DC are pushing him in, I can understand why my wishes won't come true. Doesn't mean I have to like it though, they've really screwed him over.

----------


## Ansa

> Honestly it seems that there is really something big coming for Damian. Too many hints in too many books for April to be just one more month were he's acting unsupervised.


Actually I don't think any other books in April are connected to this at all.
Teen Titans #41 is still about the Djinn war, something that isn't mentioned in any other book.
The annual comes out in the last week of the month and all the other bat-books come out before that. It sounds more like Joker will capture Ric in Nightwing #71 and Batman #93/Detective Comics #1022 will deal with it.

----------


## Ansa

> You know that is equally a valid opinion, especially since I do agree a lot of it comes from his upbringing. I think a case can be said that it does depend on the writer to see how good Damian is at dealing with people, as I really liked his Solo series run and super sons.
> 
> Either way I kind of just hope that with the annual and 5G coming up that Damian is still doing good, either on a team or even on his own.


My hope is that Damian continues to be a hero, no matter what happens in the annual.

My fear is that it's a terrible excuse for a very black and white Damian going rogue story. Even though Damian already realised that his actions in Teen Titans have been wrong last issue and making him a villain/rogue/whatever will reset him again, a developement we are all familiar with and annoyed by.

----------


## Mosameen

I think if it's gonna change DCU. Then it'll be about Bruce quitting being Batman and refusing that Damain continue to be a superhero/Robin and Damian agree that they should be a normal family. Which Damian could agree to and quit being Robin or refuse and choose to take another identity since if there is no Batman then there is no Robin.

----------


## Ansa

"Something" changing the dc universe forever is in almost every single solicitation these days, so I wouldn't think too much about that sentence alone.

With "hero" it's really more about staying a good person for me, not necessarily staying a vigilante.
If Bruce decides to quit it would have to happen in the Batman book. I don't think they would do something as important as that in Teen Titans. But since Batman is coming out before Teen Titans and they tease something terrible happening...it's not impossible.

----------


## Godlike13

Ya, it’s probably preparation for 5g. Get him out of the way for Luke, maybe even turn him into an antagonist. Batman Beyond like.

----------


## Mosameen

My main issue with DC that after alfred death if they want Bruce to retire they could made him retire to an Alfred like rule for Dick Batman.
I know he wants to retire because he wants to have a normal family but still I'd have enjoyed that.

----------


## Astralabius

> My main issue with DC that after alfred death if they want Bruce to retire they could made him retire to an Alfred like rule for Dick Batman.
> I know he wants to retire because he wants to have a normal family but still I'd have enjoyed that.


I don't recall DC confirming that Bruce wanting a normal family is the reason for his retirement. It was an idea by fans, mostly batcat fans.

----------


## Fergus

> Oh, that's the general stupidity. I thought there's something more specific. Something like that is wrong on the base story concept, so I don't know if I can count it.


Bruce being one of the trio behind the sanctuary yet it never occurred to him that almost all his kids would benefit from sessions there is a major fail. he knows that at the very least Jason and Damian have major issues [he knew Damian had nightmares for a long time after he came back] not just from dying but fromthe environment they grew up in. Cass as well

----------


## Fergus

> "Something" changing the dc universe forever is in almost every single solicitation these days, so I wouldn't think too much about that sentence alone.
> 
> With "hero" it's really more about staying a good person for me, not necessarily staying a vigilante.
> If Bruce decides to quit it would have to happen in the Batman book. I don't think they would do something as important as that in Teen Titans. But since Batman is coming out before Teen Titans and they tease something terrible happening...it's not impossible.


The change is 5g, new timeline and the fallout from the upcoming Death Metal so the DCU is about to change as a whole.
The batfamily is also having a mini crossover

----------


## Ansa

> The change is 5g, new timeline and the fallout from the upcoming Death Metal so the DCU is about to change as a whole.
> The batfamily is also having a mini crossover


Yeah, I'm aware, but they write that in almost every solicitation. So even if change is coming, that sentence means nothing for single issues.

----------


## Mosameen

> I don't recall DC confirming that Bruce wanting a normal family is the reason for his retirement. It was an idea by fans, mostly batcat fans.


I'm not talking about BatCat but the whole city of Bane was about Thomas wanting to give Bruce a lesson that the life he leads isn't good one. So, if he is retiring it better be because he realized his mistakes and wants to lead a normal life after rebuilding Gotham.

----------


## Fergus

DC hasn't done anything to Damian .. yet
Dick and Batman have gotten the rough deal so far. Hopefully it stops there.

----------


## Grandmaster_J

> DC hasn't done anything to Damian .. yet
> Dick and Batman have gotten the rough deal so far. Hopefully it stops there.


Stop? D.C. doesn't know the meaning of the word, not until they've gotten to all Bat fam members.

----------


## Astralabius

> I'm not talking about BatCat but the whole city of Bane was about Thomas wanting to give Bruce a lesson that the life he leads isn't good one. So, if he is retiring it better be because he realized his mistakes and wants to lead a normal life after rebuilding Gotham.


I commented on your post because you wrote that you "know" that Bruce will retire because he wants a normal family, which confused me.

I'm not against Bruce trying to rebuild his family, but DC under Didio isn't known to love families. I would keep my expectations low until we get more information.

----------


## Astralabius

> Stop? D.C. doesn't know the meaning of the word, not until they've gotten to all Bat fam members.


DC needs to stop breaking their toys.

----------


## Restingvoice

DC is done promoting him as a Son of Batman, isn't it? That's why his story is like... whatever... back to be Demon Child status quo you go? Without Tomasi's family concept and Morrison's divorce concept, they don't know what to do with him?

----------


## Jackalope89

> DC is done promoting him as a Son of Batman, isn't it? That's why his story is like... whatever... back to be Demon Child status quo you go? Without Tomasi's family concept and Morrison's divorce concept, they don't know what to do with him?


Have a very overrated writer turn him into generic kid with slight angst that turns into the second coming of Hitler?

----------


## king81992

> DC is done promoting him as a Son of Batman, isn't it? That's why his story is like... whatever... back to be Demon Child status quo you go? Without Tomasi's family concept and Morrison's divorce concept, they don't know what to do with him?


The next step for Damian should be actually having him learn how to not alienate his teammates( his recent storylines have been 'Damian leads, alienates his team, things go horribly wrong, Damian tries to be better, repeat) or put him in a setting where he's NOT the one in charge.

----------


## Restingvoice

> The next step for Damian should be actually having him learn how to not alienate his teammates( his recent storylines have been 'Damian leads, alienates his team, things go horribly wrong, Damian tries to be better, repeat) or put him in a setting where he's NOT the one in charge.


Taking off his mantle means he's not in charge...

Though if he stays in Titans... well he has to since he carries the book... this will be the time he forms a new team sans costume, or if the surviving members want to follow they'll do it and go in a kind of soul searching journey as the try to be better part?

----------


## king81992

> Taking off his mantle means he's not in charge...
> 
> Though if he stays in Titans... well he has to since he carries the book... this will be the time he forms a new team sans costume, or if the surviving members want to follow they'll do it and go in a kind of soul searching journey as the try to be better part?


The entire roster needs soul searching, but I doubt that Roudnouse,Djinn and Crush will be used much after this run ends. I wonder if Damian would be part of the next roster(assuming the Annual is the end of the current roster). DC might want to do something with what's left of the NTT generation...assuming they're not all dead or derailed by April...

----------


## Astralabius

I believe the most important thing is that Damian gets a writer who truly cares about him and wants him to succeed. Staying Robin, getting a new identity, leading a normal life for a short time etc. is all secondary.
One of the worst things that can happen to a character is apathy.

----------


## adrikito

> DC hasn't done anything to Damian .. yet
> Dick and Batman have gotten the rough deal so far. Hopefully it stops there.


Yeah. They allowed Legion 3.. with Bendis talking about EVIL DAMIAN again..

Make him appear 1 issue for that? Is not enough talk bad about him in twitter?

Anyway.. Better 1 issue than ruin him even more.

----------


## Ansa

> DC hasn't done anything to Damian .. yet
> Dick and Batman have gotten the rough deal so far. Hopefully it stops there.


Hmm...not sure if I agree with that.

They took away his best friend and his older brother/mentor. They damaged his relationship with his father, but made it look like it was not a big deal for Batman, as if it didn't matter that Robin was gone. They made Alfred's last words to Damian accusing him of sounding like Ra's Al Ghul. Say what you want about Alfred, but most people would side with Alfred no matter what he says because they love him so much. Having Alfed say that is damaging for his reputation.

They gave him a secret prison and when that failed they made him brainwash people. I know a lot of people in this thread like Glass on Teen Titans, but it really hasn't helped the character. The reasoning for why Damian uses such extreme methods could have been explored better. Damian accusing Jason and and the whole fight between them was done poorly. The team argues so much, you ask yourself why they're even together. What they were doing was clearly wrong and had to fail, that's just how the DC universe works. All of this feels like something Damian might have done this way in the beginning of his character developement, but at this point it just feels like character regression or a way to make him fall so the next Robin can look better in comparison.
Bendis bringing up Batman 666 again and calling Damian "Baby Hitler" is only putting salt in the wound.

----------


## Digifiend

> The entire roster needs soul searching, but I doubt that Roudnouse,Djinn and Crush will be used much after this run ends. I wonder if Damian would be part of the next roster(assuming the Annual is the end of the current roster). DC might want to do something with what's left of the NTT generation...assuming they're not all dead or derailed by April...


They'd be in Titans though, not Teen Titans. And look how many of the NTTs are actually available...

Nightwing: Looks like he's no longer going to be Ric - at last - so he's actually available
Starfire: Darkseid pawn in Justice League Odyssey
Cyborg: Ditto
Raven: Last seen on the older Titans team, which was shown to still exist in The Infected: Deathbringer.
Beast Boy: Ditto
Donna Troy: Brainwashed by Batman Who Laughs in the aforementioned Deathbringer one-shot.
Jericho, Terra: Both last known to be working with Deathstroke

Anyone else added later may or may not even be in continuity (the team's existence is, but that doesn't mean that the entire membership is - we only ever see the 80s lineup in flashbacks). Kole was apparently resurrected having died in the Crisis on Infinite Earths, but may be dead again - she showed up in Heroes in Crisis.

And as for the other classic Titans:

Arsenal: Died in Heroes in Crisis.
Flash: Currently travelling the multiverse, but his Flash Forward mini will be done by April, so he's available.
Omen: Not seen since the pre-No Justice Titans disbanded
Tempest: No idea what he's been up to since the old Titans team split. The Aquaman book has actually been using the new Aqualad instead.
Bumblebee: Only rejoined the last team because she had amnesia. She and Mal have been retired for a long time.

Frankly, not a lot of options from the NTT generation. And Young Justice gobbled up a lot of the more recent heroes.

----------


## Restingvoice

Wait what is this about Titans not Teen Titans? Did I miss a solicit?

----------


## Digifiend

No. My point there was if they were going to use the older characters, they'd relaunch Titans, it wouldn't be a continuation of Teen Titans. I then listed the old Titans to prove that most of them are off the board anyway (only Nightwing, Tempest, Omen, and Flash would be available, unless the Hall of Justice based team disbanded). Any new Teen Titans roster would probably not use the 1980s New Teen Titans characters.

I reckon we'll get more OCs, considering the whole 5G thing.

----------


## Yennefer

Hello!!  :Smile: 
(This is my first post, I'm anxious haha)
I've been reading this appreciation for quite a while and I would like to ask something...
I've been having a huge trouble with figuring out what happened between Bruce and Damian... I've been searching the comics again and again and I only find 1 or 2 "new" scenes at the time... Today I tried to follow the whole "Doom war" event, but it's just a chaotic storyline...
Do you know where can I find a Damian Wayne Reading Order from 2018-2019 till today? The last one was made in 2017....
Also, something about everything written here:
Damian, if used correctly, would be one of the most great sources of profit in DC. He could be one of the most loved characters in the whole universe, exactly because -even though his childhood was a bit surreal- his ethical struggle is real for every each of us. He is not perfect, he has mistakes, he has drawbacks...
He is an anti-hero... And what drives me crazy with the fandom is why so hate, when other characters (heroes or antiheroes) may do similar things compared to him...
And last but not least.... That "Hitler" line... A little respect for the human's history and the people who suffered and died would be nice for Bendis.
As much as I love fictional characters and as much as I want to read complex comics... Some things must not be touched.
I wonder that he was allowed to pull this thing...

----------


## Eto

Never let Bendis writer Damian again. The dude clearly loathes the character. smh.

----------


## dietrich

> Hello!! 
> (This is my first post, I'm anxious haha)
> I've been reading this appreciation for quite a while and I would like to ask something...
> I've been having a huge trouble with figuring out what happened between Bruce and Damian... I've been searching the comics again and again and I only find 1 or 2 "new" scenes at the time... Today I tried to follow the whole "Doom war" event, but it's just a chaotic storyline...
> Do you know where can I find a Damian Wayne Reading Order from 2018-2019 till today? The last one was made in 2017....
> Also, something about everything written here:
> Damian, if used correctly, would be one of the most great sources of profit in DC. He could be one of the most loved characters in the whole universe, exactly because -even though his childhood was a bit surreal- his ethical struggle is real for every each of us. He is not perfect, he has mistakes, he has drawbacks...
> He is an anti-hero... And what drives me crazy with the fandom is why so hate, when other characters (heroes or antiheroes) may do similar things compared to him...
> And last but not least.... That "Hitler" line... A little respect for the human's history and the people who suffered and died would be nice for Bendis.
> ...


welcome to the thread. Always fun to have a fresh voice join the community.

Damian and Bruce didn't have a fallout. Damian lost faith in Batman and the JL when they failed to save a whole planet. This happened in No Justice

He  took it very badly. All the lives lost so he decided to find a better solution than Gotham's revolving door prisons and it's legal system that allows the same villains to keep coming back and hurting more people.

He started giving Bruce the cold shoulder. Bruce knows he's upset and has reached out a couple of times but then shut down as a result of Bane and Thomas trolling him.

There isn't any scene or issues that show them falling out just Damian is upset and ignores Bruce to go make a more gritty Team.

Aside from bias fans seem to have different rules and filters for different characters.
Damian and to a lesser degree Jason get dragged for stuff that's ignored in fellow Robins Dick and Tim or Batman.

Sometimes fans drag then even before the read the story.
fans also ignore what happens in story, ignore their history [calling them killers or evil] out right lie or twist canon and repeat it so many times that even fans who should know better start to repeat it.

Damian isn't the Robin who always gets foreshadowed as going bad in the future and he doesn't always go bad when he becomes Batman. That's Tim but that's ignored it's obviously Damian.

Same with the Hitler remake. How many people have challenged the fact that Bendis has the wrong Robin? 

We all read Rebirth Tec, Superson's of tomorrow, ToT and we got hints way back in other titles going back. Various versions of Tim as a fascist,  RR had no issues working with a fascist in Tec but that's obviously Damian.

Will post a reading order shortly. Good idea really since Damian has quite a few stories in different titles that some fans might not be aware of.

----------


## Ansa

Hi, welcome to our community!

Bruce and Damian had a falling out after Justice League: No Justice. The event was a 4 issue event that DC published in May 2018.
I've forgotten most of the stuff that happened, so I'm probably not the best person to ask but basically: The Justice League failed to save an alien planet and Damian had to watch it happen. It's not shown in the comic itself, but one panel of the epilogue has Bruce explaining to Black Lightning that "Robin has decided on his own way of doing things" or something along those lines, implying that they had an argument and Damian left Bruce.

A consequence of No Justice was that the Teen Titans disbanded and Damian formed the current roster. Damian was already very disillusioned by the Justice League's failure, but after witnessing his favourite restaurant getting blown up and the owner, who's family he cared about a lot, getting killed in the process by henchmen of Black Mask, he decides that Batman's methods aren't working and he needs to find a different way. He puts together a new team and works together with Red Hood on his secret prison. I'm not a fan of the current Teen Titans run, so hopefully another person can explain this book better than I do.

Their estrangement wasn't really adressed in any Batman book at the time until Tomasi started his run on Detective Comics in January 2019. Bruce asked Damian to fix things between them, but it turned out it was all a simulation at the end of the arc. For some reason Damian was working together with Bruce against the Arkham Knight in the next arc, but it was never explained why he they were on good terms again. Especially since nothing in Teen Titans showed Damian changing his mind or wanting to fix their relationship...idk. It doesn't make much sense.
After that Damian started showing up around his father again in Event Leviathan, Justice League and during  "City of Bane" in the main Batman book.

Detective Comics 1017 had a page adressing Bruce neglecting Damian and being difficult to reach after Alfred's death, but they seemed fine for the rest of the issue.

Honestly, the DC universe is pretty disconnected right now and because of that their relationship doesn't make much sense.

----------


## Ansa

Damian getting a lot of hate, from readers and fans alike, for stuff that is apparently fine when other characters do it is bothering me a lot.

The Justice League has brainwashed people before and none of them had to give up being heroes.
Bruce had several secret prisons in his life and how breaking into Arkham and brutally beating up inmates or throwing ex-inmates off of buildings again and again for information doesn't count as torture is beyond me.
Apparently Bruce is a hero and Damian...isn't. Even though his actions are not that different from those of "heroes" he sees around him.

Edit: Bruce breaking KGbeast's neck and seemingly leaving him for dead in the snow also didn't provoke much of a reaction from fans.

Edit 2: Another reason why I hate Bruce doing extremely sketchy things. It's so annoying when Bruce does some shit and turns around to one of the Robins in the next issue or another book and gives them a lecture on morals or ethics.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Hello!! 
> (This is my first post, I'm anxious haha)
> I've been reading this appreciation for quite a while and I would like to ask something...
> I've been having a huge trouble with figuring out what happened between Bruce and Damian... I've been searching the comics again and again and I only find 1 or 2 "new" scenes at the time... Today I tried to follow the whole "Doom war" event, but it's just a chaotic storyline...
> Do you know where can I find a Damian Wayne Reading Order from 2018-2019 till today? The last one was made in 2017...


The chronology's kinda disconnected. Sometimes when it happens in relation to the others it's obvious, but often it's not, so I write this divided by series and include the dates.

Damian first appeared in Detective Comics in Trial of Batwoman (February 2018) followed by Batmen Eternal arc starting the next issue.

He is the main conflict in Deathstroke vs Batman arc of Deathstroke (April 2018)

After Dark Knights Metal arc is finished, he appeared in Justice League story No Justice, wherein the aftermath he made new Teen Titans (May 2018) until Year of The Villain arc where he also returns to Justice League in Doom War arc (currently still ongoing). This is his main arc. 

In Batman, he's in Prelude to The Wedding (May 2018), then a cameo in Batman #71, then a major role in City of Bane arc (July 2019). He's there until it's finished. 

Damian returned to Detective Comics in Arkham Knight arc (April 2019) and then later in #1017 (December) set after the City of Bane

Super Sons are continued to Adventures of Super Sons but they're not tied by canon. After that, it's Superman's Event Leviathan arc (currently still ongoing but set after his meeting with Jason Todd in Teen Titans Annual #1 in January 2019) and Super Sons reunion in Superman #16 (Oct 2019) then the current Legion of Superheroes #3 (Baby Hitler issue)

----------


## Darkspellmaster

Hi Yennefer, welcome. Bendis, I think, is under the impression that Damian has more influence in him from Ra's than his father. Honestly Tomasi, Brian Q Miller jave been the most consistent. I would even say Dan Jurgens at times when hes had him too. 

It's confusing because you have King doing his thing and everyone has to follow his lead.

----------


## dietrich

> The next step for Damian should be actually having him learn how to not alienate his teammates( his recent storylines have been 'Damian leads, alienates his team, things go horribly wrong, Damian tries to be better, repeat) or put him in a setting where he's NOT the one in charge.


This run is the only where we see him alienate his team members by lying to them. Percy's TT he fired Wallace which was the right decision. Garth got pissed because with his pal gone he;s now bored { He gave that as his reason for wanting star to take control] The reason for his dislike for Damian is that he is not fun

Raven was dating Wallace so I get why she was upset when he was fired. That's it. Star, Wallace and Jackson were fine with him even if they agreed that he wasn't fun.

Damian is likely never going to be a Dick grayson type who is great with people  but I hope he gets better. Don't want him to be like his dad. 80 years and he's still alienating his teams mates and allies.

----------


## dietrich

> DC is done promoting him as a Son of Batman, isn't it? That's why his story is like... whatever... back to be Demon Child status quo you go? Without Tomasi's family concept and Morrison's divorce concept, they don't know what to do with him?


Really?! Only those two concepts and writers? So many writers and concepts feel the shade.
Yes Son of Batman was last pushed two weeks  ago. Not sure where we are at this week. Baby Hitler I think  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Shen

Greetings Yen (lol, couldn't resist.) It's good to meet a fellow newbie, though technically we've both been a part of this thread for a while  :Wink:  You're right about Damian, he has soo much potential it amazes me that DC continue to overlook that in favour portraying him the way they do. DC  are quite literally hypocrites in this manner. 

As for Bendis, it seems he has free reign whenever he gets his grubby hands on Damian. Like an idiot, I was willing to give the LOS a try if they treated Damian with a little courtesy, color me surprised - they didn't. After their comments, regardless if it were valid or not, LOS really lost any redeeming qualities (if it had any to begin with.)

Damian's had some great writers in the past, people like Tomasi handled his character well. Then you get people like Bendis who really know how to piss a fan off. I truly don't understand why he has to take out his anger on a character, when he's in control of said character. If he hates something about Damian, he literally has the power to correct the issue. If he hates Damian for no reason - then he's an idiot. 

So yeah, there's some good stuff out there, and some spectacularly bad stuff as well. (Case in point - Baby Hitler) but with DC you never know.

----------


## Darkspellmaster

Did I miss something with LOS, Jon was defending his friend to them.

----------


## Darkcrusade25

You guys think they might be throwing all this stuff on Damian to build on the Helena hype for King's BM/CW?

DCYou TT did something similar with Kon and Bart, but to be fair they were all the way at the edge at that time.

----------


## Shen

> Did I miss something with LOS, Jon was defending his friend to them.


Yeah Jon defended him, but the Legion (Minus Brainiac 5) really weren't having any of it, as far as they're concerned - Damian's comparable to Adolf Hitler. It wasn't even in a teasing manner, they thought Damian being there was literally a sick joke played by Chameleon Boy.

----------


## Shen

> You guys think they might be throwing all this stuff on Damian to build on the Helena hype for King's BM/CW?
> 
> DCYou TT did something similar with Kon and Bart, but to be fair they were all the way at the edge at that time.


I mean, yeah. It makes perfect BatCat sense.

----------


## Darkspellmaster

> I mean, yeah. It makes perfect BatCat sense.


Ugh, god no. 
Damian is no Hitler. But I guess being grandson to  Ra's doesn't earn you any points. 

I actually loathe this pairing the way it is right now.

----------


## Ansa

> You guys think they might be throwing all this stuff on Damian to build on the Helena hype for King's BM/CW?
> 
> DCYou TT did something similar with Kon and Bart, but to be fair they were all the way at the edge at that time.


Considering everything else DC let King throw under the bus for batcat, I wouldn't say it's impossible.
Other possibility is whoever will play Robin for Luke.
Or both.

God, I hope this doesn't turn out as bad as I fear, but the last two years have taught me to expect the worst.

----------


## Restingvoice

> You guys think they might be throwing all this stuff on Damian to build on the Helena hype for King's BM/CW?
> 
> DCYou TT did something similar with Kon and Bart, but to be fair they were all the way at the edge at that time.


We don' t know if there's actually going to be a Helena yet. King is making a Helena story but that could be non-canon for the Catwoman anniversary issue.

----------


## Ansa

> Yeah Jon defended him, but the Legion (Minus Brainiac 5) really weren't having any of it, as far as they're concerned - Damian's comparable to Adolf Hitler. It wasn't even in a teasing manner, they thought Damian being there was literally a sick joke played by Chameleon Boy.


And the way Jon defended him was ooc. Something that always made Jon extremely angry in the Super Sons titles was either Damian or someone insulting/threatening Damian.
Bendis'Jon is just a bubbly airhead, as are most Legion characters in this book.

----------


## dietrich

> You guys think they might be throwing all this stuff on Damian to build on the Helena hype for King's BM/CW?
> 
> DCYou TT did something similar with Kon and Bart, but to be fair they were all the way at the edge at that time.


No. I know  that the only reason fans give here and on Reddit give for wanting Helena [the not huntress and from earth2 version] is Damianhaving a little sis to baby/care for/protect { that's the only reason on the various threads which is very  very odd]

However I doubt dc reads comments or listens to fans. Damian stepping away from Robin is due to 5G most likely npt to get fans excited for possible damain and Baby Helena playtime.

----------


## dietrich

> Greetings Yen (lol, couldn't resist.) It's good to meet a fellow newbie, though technically we've both been a part of this thread for a while  You're right about Damian, he has soo much potential it amazes me that DC continue to overlook that in favour portraying him the way they do. DC  are quite literally hypocrites in this manner. 
> 
> As for Bendis, it seems he has free reign whenever he gets his grubby hands on Damian. Like an idiot, I was willing to give the LOS a try if they treated Damian with a little courtesy, color me surprised - they didn't. After their comments, regardless if it were valid or not, LOS really lost any redeeming qualities (if it had any to begin with.)
> 
> Damian's had some great writers in the past, people like Tomasi handled his character well. Then you get people like Bendis who really know how to piss a fan off. I truly don't understand why he has to take out his anger on a character, when he's in control of said character. If he hates something about Damian, he literally has the power to correct the issue. If he hates Damian for no reason - then he's an idiot. 
> 
> So yeah, there's some good stuff out there, and some spectacularly bad stuff as well. (Case in point - Baby Hitler) but with DC you never know.


Bendis enjoys trolling Damian fans but I doubt he hates or even dislikes the character.  He wouldn't use him if he hated him. It's just that he can't get his voice right.

He also doesn't know the character or enjoys using him as the not serious  little kid who makes a lot of noise.

----------


## Ansa

> No. I know  that the only reason fans give here and on Reddit give for wanting Helena [the not huntress and from earth2 version] is Damianhaving a little sis to baby/care for/protect { that's the only reason on the various threads which is very  very odd]
> 
> However I doubt dc reads comments or listens to fans. Damian stepping away from Robin is due to 5G most likely npt to get fans excited for possible damain and Baby Helena playtime.


I wouldn't say that's the only reason. Some of them seem think that if Helena is born it would somehow cement batcat for all eternity.

As far as I know the Helena story King teased will be a one-shot in that Catwoman 80th anniversary book. Batman & Catwoman is according to King a standalone book and it's not clear when it will even come out yet. That makes it unlikely that it will have a big impact on the main universe.
A big change like a pregnancy and a baby would have to come out of the main book and I can't remember Tynion giving any hints that something like this is supposed to happen in his run.

----------


## adrikito

> Hello!! 
> (This is my first post, I'm anxious haha)


Another newbie? Welcome. You are the 2nd in a short time..

Bendis was a mistake.. If you don´t like one character don´t use him/her in your comics.. 

Is not like Damian presence was necessary in your comic. Nobody forced you to make him part of the legion.

----------


## Katana500

> Hello!! 
> (This is my first post, I'm anxious haha)
> I've been reading this appreciation for quite a while and I would like to ask something...
> I've been having a huge trouble with figuring out what happened between Bruce and Damian... I've been searching the comics again and again and I only find 1 or 2 "new" scenes at the time... Today I tried to follow the whole "Doom war" event, but it's just a chaotic storyline...
> Do you know where can I find a Damian Wayne Reading Order from 2018-2019 till today? The last one was made in 2017....
> Also, something about everything written here:
> Damian, if used correctly, would be one of the most great sources of profit in DC. He could be one of the most loved characters in the whole universe, exactly because -even though his childhood was a bit surreal- his ethical struggle is real for every each of us. He is not perfect, he has mistakes, he has drawbacks...
> He is an anti-hero... And what drives me crazy with the fandom is why so hate, when other characters (heroes or antiheroes) may do similar things compared to him...
> And last but not least.... That "Hitler" line... A little respect for the human's history and the people who suffered and died would be nice for Bendis.
> ...


Welcome! Always Great to have new people  :Smile:

----------


## Shen

> Bendis enjoys trolling Damian fans but I doubt he hates or even dislikes the character.  He wouldn't use him if he hated him. It's just that he can't get his voice right.
> 
> He also doesn't know the character or enjoys using him as the not serious  little kid who makes a lot of noise.


Lol, yeah that's probably true. I used to always give him a chance because I thought he'd eventually get the character close to being correct, but this legion issue just pissed me off.

----------


## Yennefer

Thank you for your responses and your kind words! ��
I think that now everything starts going at it's place for the 5G, as it was mentioned in your recent messages.
Damian will be the classic but much hated anti-hero of "doing/wanting the right things, but chasing them by the wrong means".
Now, I believe that DC takes a HUGE risk that it is a result of the time that pressures things.
Batman is the dark sad loner with a battler for 80 years. People get bored, but at the same time this is exactly the hero that he is.
Taking Bruce and all the other major classics at the background as the old mentors (Bruce will be like 60 yo) means that they have to create a completely new product, a new "forefront" of protagonist heroes, which is not certain that will be likeable to the people... And going back would be weird ... So, I don't know how things will go from now on... I've been around DC for only 1.5 year and I find it sad... I don't want to know how other people may feel, that had been following these heroes over the years... It's sad..
Also... Unpopular opinion: I low-key hate BatCat... And for sure I hate all this BatCat baby/happy ever after family idea....
Making Bruce a classic father in a core-type family frame with Selina would be stupid, boring and out-of-character.
He is already a father and a bad one at that.

And one more question: I read somewhere that in Doomsday clock ot was said that Damian must be saved from something... Do you know in which issue?

----------


## Restingvoice

> And one more question: I read somewhere that in Doomsday clock it was said that Damian must be saved from something... Do you know in which issue?


The last one. They only mentioned "Batman's son", no name given.

----------


## Ansa

> He is already a father and a bad one at that.


Sad but true.

----------


## dietrich

> Lol, yeah that's probably true. I used to always give him a chance because I thought he'd eventually get the character close to being correct, but this legion issue just pissed me off.


The worst thing is I think his thinks he's Damian is funny. I don't think he gets fans don't like his characterisation.
Some fans keep liking his supersons pics so he'll likely continue.

The Hitler thing i hoped maybe he meant that damian was bossy but then he used it in reference to batman 666 meaning he defiantly never read that story because that Damian is as far from anything that could be interpreted or even associated with Hitler, a fascist or even an authoritarian.

The Legion is made up of dunces it seems.

----------


## dietrich

> I wouldn't say that's the only reason. Some of them seem think that if Helena is born it would somehow cement batcat for all eternity.
> 
> As far as I know the Helena story King teased will be a one-shot in that Catwoman 80th anniversary book. Batman & Catwoman is according to King a standalone book and it's not clear when it will even come out yet. That makes it unlikely that it will have a big impact on the main universe.
> A big change like a pregnancy and a baby would have to come out of the main book and I can't remember Tynion giving any hints that something like this is supposed to happen in his run.


Oh I know there's that one poster who keeps hoping and posting that it will make King's story harder to retcon but they also gave the wanting Damian to have a litter sister.

I feel for the poster. He/she stuck with the run, got very upset when King was taken off and was worried the wedding would not be a thing. 

Reading a story that spanned four years in the hopes that the end will reward your ship is not wise. Fans need to understand that a tease doesn't = promise. No writer willingly spoils their own story. If it's teased then understand that there will be a twist.
King's using the old Carrot in front of a Donkey technique and it's working.

----------


## dietrich

Some Damian and Alfred moments

----------


## dietrich

Fan comic based on a scene from the DickBats era

----------


## dietrich

Adult Damian Batman666. I want more of this Batman and his world





Still haven't read the issue but a fan drew how it should have ended#

The good thing about legion thinking he's Hitler. Damian isn't getting shipped off to the future like some feared. Damian getting the BendisJontreatment would have been bad







https://twitter.com/NICO_DRAWINGS

----------


## dietrich

Young Al Ghul




https://twitter.com/dami__28


Not sure what's going on with Nightwing here. Is that symbolic? Without Dick Grayson Damian would have a tougher battle overcoming his past?

Damian had already rejected his LOA ways and was in Gotham working as a hero before the Bats took him in. Dick is a huge huge factor in Damian's hero journey but Damian took the vital 1st steps all on his own. He decided to change and become a person who dedicates his life to saving not ruling. 

He was to become the next Alexander the Great but he chose to walk the streets as a hero.

That's important to remember. 

Damian choose to become a hero. he wasn't given Robin simply because of his last name[ like some hateful fans like to say]

Damian chose to be a hero. Wanted to help make the world better and just like every other Robin he worked and bled for the mantle.






https://twitter.com/mcmramcm

----------


## dietrich

Batman 666

Protector. Watching over his father's City. For all Eternity.

His Soul for their safety

----------


## dietrich

https://twitter.com/glitter_dc

----------


## dietrich

https://twitter.com/marcusto

----------


## Ansa

> Oh I know there's that one poster who keeps hoping and posting that it will make King's story harder to retcon but they also gave the wanting Damian to have a litter sister.
> 
> I feel for the poster. He/she stuck with the run, got very upset when King was taken off and was worried the wedding would not be a thing. 
> 
> Reading a story that spanned four years in the hopes that the end will reward your ship is not wise. Fans need to understand that a tease doesn't = promise. No writer willingly spoils their own story. If it's teased then understand that there will be a twist.
> King's using the old Carrot in front of a Donkey technique and it's working.


I was thinking more of some people on twitter or that one poster who doesn't like that Bruce has children that aren't Selinas.
If you ask me being an adoptive/surrogate father is an important part of Batman and the idea that Bruce had a child with Talia is from 1987, so I'm not sure why that poster has such a big problem with it.

I think it's a bit weird how some fans are still convinced the wedding is coming. If it was happening King wouldn't have written that cop out in #85. And Didio's views on weddings in comics are well known, so I'm pretty sure King knew from the very beginning that there wouldn't be a wedding too. But instead of getting angry at King some fans are apparently attacking Tynion on Twitter now. I guess they still hope for a wedding in Batman and Catwoman.

----------


## Rac7d*

Is the i was robin cover real?

----------


## Ansa

> Is the i was robin cover real?


Yes, it's official.

----------


## Ansa

> Adult Damian Batman666. I want more of this Batman and his world


How can people even say Batman 666 is evil when he's so adorable?

----------


## Restingvoice

> 


and then Jon came along ^^

----------


## Shen

> How can people even say Batman 666 is evil when he's so adorable?


"I'm Batman. And I hate kids." I loved this story  :Big Grin:

----------


## Shen

Hope to see Ra's Damian in the next Beyond issue

66649011_2140789512689149_6823769754657016864_n.jpg

----------


## Korath

> How can people even say Batman 666 is evil when he's so adorable?


I just don't like his looks. That huge collar thingy is really ugly and makes no sense to me. Damian, as Robin, Batman, Ra's al Ghul, Bloodbat or any other name, should have a more distinguished looks !

So far, Ra's Damian has by far the better look of all his versions. Probably why I'm not angry at the hints Bendis is giving and even what DC is doing. Ra's Damian is extremely charismatic.

----------


## Fergus

> I just don't like his looks. That huge collar thingy is really ugly and makes no sense to me. Damian, as Robin, Batman, Ra's al Ghul, Bloodbat or any other name, should have a more distinguished looks !
> 
> So far, Ra's Damian has by far the better look of all his versions. Probably why I'm not angry at the hints Bendis is giving and even what DC is doing. Ra's Damian is extremely charismatic.


 Batman Beyond Damian does have the best look and he also have my ideal ending for Damian.

takes the LOA  and turns it into a force for good after having been Batman.

This is my favourite version of the Batsuit  [reminds me of the one Bruce had in the desert scene in BVS]

I also I'm fond of the one he wore in The Just





I think Maybe he has a thing about his neck or it's an ode to Grayson but either way I think Damian as Batman has the most distinguished look of the bats.

He also Had a hood as Robin which I suppose becomes a high collar stylistically.

----------


## Fergus

> Hope to see Ra's Damian in the next Beyond issue
> 
> Attachment 91946


This is a very handsome Damian. He looks more like what a kid of Talia and Bruce would look like.

That Ra's suit is great. Green suit's his skin tone

I'd like more interaction between Ra's and Terry.

----------


## Ansa

> I just don't like his looks. That huge collar thingy is really ugly and makes no sense to me. Damian, as Robin, Batman, Ra's al Ghul, Bloodbat or any other name, should have a more distinguished looks !
> 
> So far, Ra's Damian has by far the better look of all his versions. Probably why I'm not angry at the hints Bendis is giving and even what DC is doing. Ra's Damian is extremely charismatic.


But Bendis isn't hinting at Batman Beyond Damian, he's hinting at Batman 666 Damian.

----------


## Fergus

> Young Al Ghul
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/dami__28
> 
> 
> Not sure what's going on with Nightwing here. Is that symbolic? Without Dick Grayson Damian would have a tougher battle overcoming his past?
> ...


I know Tim Drake Fans like to claim that he is unique sincehe's the only one who wantged to to help and how he worked for it. A blatant lie.

They all wanted to help. They all worked very hard for the right to help and they all did very well.

I find any claims to the contrary disrespectful. 

The exception is of course from All Star Batman and Robin but that Batman was Crazy Steve so we don't count him.

----------


## Fergus

> But Bendis isn't hinting at Batman Beyond Damian, he's hinting at Batman 666 Damian.


Bendis hasn't read the book I'd imagine or maybe he's taken a peak at Morrison's yet to be released Arkham Asylum2 [I hope not]

I just want writers who aren't Morrison to leave that Universe alone. At least AA2 is out.

And why is it always certain writers who always that try to mess with this world? Tynion and Bendis.

----------


## Ansa

> Bendis hasn't read the book I'd imagine or maybe he's taken a peak at Morrison's Arkham Asylum2
> 
> I just want writers who aren't Morrison to leave that Universe alone. At least AA2 is out.
> 
> And why is it always certain writers who always that try to mess with this world? Tynion and Bendis.


Oh I agree. I was just correcting Korath who seems to think Bendis is building up to Batman Beyond Damian, which as far as I can tell isn't the case.

----------


## Korath

> But Bendis isn't hinting at Batman Beyond Damian, he's hinting at Batman 666 Damian.


I really didn't get that impression. Batman 666 is still clearly a hero. Or at least a violent vigilante, who tries to make Gotham a better place.

By becoming a Ra's al Ghul (complete with the goal to reduce human population and impact on the world), I think it'd be easier for the future and the LOSH to misjudged him as an evil being on the scale of that dude with the ugly mustache in Germany during the 30's and 40's.

But just to be clearer on this subject, I tweeted Bendis. Hopefully, he'll be able to give us some insight here !

----------


## CPSparkles

Damian is joining the Beyond crew in April. I hope we get a great and positive story.

 I like Terry a lot and it's a shame his world's so removed from everyone else.

I hope they have a team up or something.

----------


## CPSparkles

How come TT doesn't have Variant cover often like all the other Robin titles do? Even  Outsiders gets more variants. DC doesn't seem to be interested in promoting Damian's book.

Even the art isn't good looking. I don't understand. Titles that have nice looking art sell more even when they are trash. Same applies to variants which can double sales in some cases. I've got the latest TT but I've not opened it because the art is off putting.

And that is just sad.

----------


## Digifiend

What are you talking about? Teen Titans always has one variant cover.

----------


## dietrich

> What are you talking about? Teen Titans always has one variant cover.


No it doesn't. it's had  a few and only recently. Percy's had even less. Glass had a few but TT compared to stuff like Supersons, Nigthwing, catwoman, Supergirl, RhAtO, pretty much compared to Titles in similar sales range or lower has less variants and no name artist's on it.

----------


## dietrich

> How come TT doesn't have Variant cover often like all the other Robin titles do? Even  Outsiders gets more variants. DC doesn't seem to be interested in promoting Damian's book.
> 
> Even the art isn't good looking. I don't understand. Titles that have nice looking art sell more even when they are trash. Same applies to variants which can double sales in some cases. I've got the latest TT but I've not opened it because the art is off putting.
> 
> And that is just sad.


Yeah. I don't mind the lack of Variaant's since the few times it does have em they are low enery phoned in stuff. The artist I don't think is suitable for the book. He's art suits older characters but on teens it looks like plastic surgery gone way bad.

I liked the artist on Percy's run.

I wouldn't say it's that DC doesn't want to promote Damian since Supersons had Nguyen Variants. It's more like TT isn't a title they care about or are that invested in.

Titles like catwoman and Supergirl have a certain type of variant. They target a specific audience that's ....ahem it would be all kinds of wrong for this TT team.

----------


## dietrich

> Hope to see Ra's Damian in the next Beyond issue
> 
> Attachment 91946


This is very nice.

I like that he looks mixed and the greens do fit him.

Damian of all the Bat kids has the best graduated look. As Batman or Ra's he's look is distinct.

Like Ra's he has a flair for drama and that is reflected in all his looks. I love that in Nuclear Winter he took the batman666 look to the next level with an actual manbat skin. Nice.

----------


## dietrich

Batman and Sons





https://twitter.com/SergioDavila007


Nightwing and Robin





https://twitter.com/laquilasse


Damian Wayne Undercover from Deathstroke

----------


## dietrich

Supersons





https://twitter.com/popposa_64

----------


## Digifiend

> No it doesn't. it's had  a few and only recently. Percy's had even less. Glass had a few but TT compared to stuff like Supersons, Nigthwing, catwoman, Supergirl, RhAtO, pretty much compared to Titles in similar sales range or lower has less variants and no name artist's on it.


Check again. All Rebirth titles had one variant as well as the standard cover. Yes, TT usually doesn't have more than that, but all issues do have one variant. If you're looking at the Fandom wiki, they're simply missing variants in some cases and do list the artists in the infobox.

----------


## dietrich

> Check again. All Rebirth titles had one variant as well as the standard cover. Yes, TT usually doesn't have more than that, but all issues do have one variant. If you're looking at the Fandom wiki, they're simply missing variants in some cases and do list the artists in the infobox.


That's not even close to correct and it's not just TT that this applies to.

I don't know about wiki but both when instore or placing an order or even on the DC site those are the places where I find out if the titles I pick up have variants and alot of the times with TT it doesn't

----------


## CPSparkles

I just go by what's available at my retailers and what advertised when it comes to covers available.

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/JarrulusX

----------


## CPSparkles

> I know Tim Drake Fans like to claim that he is unique sincehe's the only one who wantged to to help and how he worked for it. A blatant lie.
> 
> They all wanted to help. They all worked very hard for the right to help and they all did very well.
> 
> I find any claims to the contrary disrespectful. 
> 
> The exception is of course from All Star Batman and Robin but that Batman was Crazy Steve so we don't count him.


It's not meant as disrespect it's just the way the stories lays emphasis on Tim not needing the role but still wanting it.

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/ivokiku


Talia and Damian



https://twitter.com/Starphyro




https://twitter.com/TT_at_all

----------


## CPSparkles

With Baby Yoda



https://twitter.com/langbuliang


And Goliath




https://twitter.com/gothamtwinks

----------


## CPSparkles

Original from the 3 pages Chris Burnham drew of Damian's memory of Alfred for the Alfred Special written by Tomasi.

For the continuity hounds this takes place somewhere during Batman Inc vol 1 so I'm expecting serious feels.

----------


## CPSparkles

The Best Dynamic Duo




Robin





https://twitter.com/tpoc0ik833jk





https://twitter.com/okayu0317

----------


## Yennefer

Guys....
Do you think Damian and Djinn will kiss? (Something a bit irrelevant..)
I would really like to see such development...
Also... Alfred shouldn't have been killed off. He will return.

----------


## Katana500

> Guys....
> Do you think Damian and Djinn will kiss? (Something a bit irrelevant..)
> I would really like to see such development...
> Also... Alfred shouldn't have been killed off. He will return.


I think its almost a certainty that they kiss at this point. Probably when Damian finally frees her from her prison. I have a feeling it will be bittersweet though since Djinn is quite likely to be the titan who dies. Which is a bummer since she is my favorite of the new creations.

----------


## Yennefer

I feel (or maybe I want it way too much) it will be Crush... Or RH...
I'm not a shipper nor ignorant to wait something like that from Damian (relationship etc). 
But I do want them to kiss... And I'm dying to see her in other titles in the future...

----------


## adrikito

> I think its almost a certainty that they kiss at this point. Probably when Damian finally frees her from her prison. I have a feeling it will be bittersweet though since Djinn is quite likely to be the titan who dies. Which is a bummer since she is my favorite of the new creations.


Same here.. She is my favorite I don´t want her dead..

The DamianxDjinn KISS is still possible? I thought that after what happened between her and Crush this option was not possible anymore.

----------


## Rac7d*

> I feel (or maybe I want it way too much) it will be Crush... Or RH...
> I'm not a shipper nor ignorant to wait something like that from Damian (relationship etc). 
> But I do want them to kiss... And I'm dying to see her in other titles in the future...


Her being with guarantees her use in the future where with crush she could vanish after cancelation

----------


## Grandmaster_J

> I thought that after what happened between her and Crush this option was not possible anymore.


Why wouldn't it be? It's not like they became official from that and there hasn't been any follow up to it as Djinn stated she's still confused about who she is, how she wants to live her life, and who she's with. This is why I never liked the kiss to begin with. Whoever doesn't make it out "alive" can't be anyone else but her since she's the only one capable of stopping him.... I wonder how Damian will handle it. 

But this is comics where death is hardly permanent, so her resurrection possibilities is wide open.

----------


## Digifiend

> Her being with guarantees her use in the future where with crush she could vanish after cancelation


The same can be said for Roundhouse, but it looks like he already found a new home.

----------


## Rac7d*

> The same can be said for Roundhouse, but it looks like he already found a new home.


Roundhouse the new beastboy

----------


## scary harpy

> https://twitter.com/TT_at_all


Is Damian allergic to these flowers?

----------


## Jackalope89

> Is Damian allergic to these flowers?


They're Ivy's flowers. Given to him as a peace offering at the urging of Selina.

----------


## CPSparkles

> I think its almost a certainty that they kiss at this point. Probably when Damian finally frees her from her prison. I have a feeling it will be bittersweet though since Djinn is quite likely to be the titan who dies. Which is a bummer since she is my favorite of the new creations.


You really think it's going to her and not RH? I hope she doesn't die. She has the most story potential out of the new guys.

I don't mind D and D sharing a kiss. Initially was keen on Crush and Djinn but the writing ruined it. I'm not a fan of how Crush loses it when it comes to Djinn

----------


## Jackalope89

> You really think it's going to her and not RH? I hope she doesn't die. She has the most story potential out of the new guys.
> 
> I don't mind D and D sharing a kiss. Initially was keen on Crush and Djinn but the writing ruined it. I'm not a fan of how Crush loses it when it comes to Djinn


Besides, Crush has plenty to deal with, like having Lobo as her biological father (which does raise the question of whom her mother was).

----------


## Grandmaster_J

> You really think it's going to her and not RH? I hope she doesn't die.


RH has already "died" once, and was the traitor. Going with again is too much of a safe bet, and won't have any impact at all on the story since most fans don't care about him.

But the solicitation says "one won't make it back" so it might not actually mean death. Maybe she traps herself and Elias somewhere.

----------


## Ansa

20200123_064909.jpg

Am I the only one who sometimes reads a Batman comic and thinks: "Damian would get so much shit both inside and outside the story for this if he was to one doing it."

----------


## Ansa

Seriously, the only reason she didn't die is because Bruce was the one who let her get hit by the truck.

----------


## Shen

> TEEN TITANS #41
> written by ADAM GLASS and ROBBIE THOMPSON
> art by EDUARDO PANSICA and JULIO FERREIRA
> cover by BERNARD CHANG
> variant cover by KHARY RANDOLPH
> At the gates of heaven itself, the Teen Titans must battle Djinn’s older brother Elias with the fate of the world hanging in the balance! But victory comes at a terrible cost—because one of the Teen Titans won’t be making it back!
> ON SALE 04.15.20
> $3.99 US | 32 PAGES
> FC | DC
> ...


Y'know Grandmaster_J has a point, I don't think someone will die either. It just says one of the Titans won't be making it back, maybe Djinn or someone traps Elias with them. As for the ultimate price, it could be their freedom. It's pretty open ended.

----------


## Shen

> Am I the only one who sometimes reads a Batman comic and thinks: "Damian would get so much shit both inside and outside the story for this if he was to one doing it."


Nope, But he's an adult so he knows better - apparently. Like dressing up your partner in bright red, green and yellow colors is safe and doesn't draw any gunfire at all  :Wink:  

That's unfortunately how things are.

----------


## Ansa

> Y'know Grandmaster_J has a point, I don't think someone will die either. It just says one of the Titans won't be making it back, maybe Djinn or someone traps Elias with them. As for the ultimate price, it could be their freedom. It's pretty open ended.


Yeah, based on this alone I'm also not convinced that someone has to die or that it has to be Djinn. Someone came up with the idea that the annual might take place before they go to save Djinn. That would even open up the possibilty of Damian not coming back. I hope things will be a bit clearer when we get the solicitations for May.

----------


## Ansa

> Nope, But he's an adult so he knows better - apparently. Like dressing up your partner in bright red, green and yellow colors is safe and doesn't draw any gunfire at all  
> 
> That's unfortunately how things are.


That's not even really my problem, it's more that "Character X is too violent and doesn't have enough empathy" gets thrown around a lot in every discussion about who might take over the mantle one day (which isn't ever going to be permanent, but okay) and I look at modern Batman and wonder where his famous empathy or his will to avoid cruelty has gone.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Besides, Crush has plenty to deal with, like having Lobo as her biological father (which does raise the question of whom her mother was).


Lobo doesn’t care

----------


## Shen

> That's not even really my problem, it's more that "Character X is too violent and doesn't have enough empathy" gets thrown around a lot in every discussion about who might take over the mantle one day (which isn't ever going to be permanent, but okay) and I look at modern Batman and wonder where his famous empathy or his will to avoid cruelty has gone.


I know right? He has some moments that leave me going WTF? Remember what he did to KGBeast? Although Bruce's argument to this problem is that he wants "Character X" to be better than him, to not make the same mistakes he continues to make. 

But that's all bull when you consider the fact that the man who Damian aspires to be like has done some savage things - Why shouldn't Damian follow his example?

----------


## Ansa

> I know right? He has some moments that leave me going WTF? Remember what he did to KGBeast? Although Bruce's argument to this problem is that he wants "Character X" to be better than him, to not make the same mistakes he continues to make. 
> 
> But that's all bull when you consider the fact that the man who Damian aspires to be like has done some savage things - Why shouldn't Damian follow his example?


"Do as I say, not as I do" is certainly not a good way to lead or to raise a child.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Lobo doesn’t care


Lobo doesn't, but Crush probably does.

----------


## Shen

> Lobo doesn't, but Crush probably does.


She'll probably go after him to find answers about her mom, or just look for her on her own.

----------


## sifighter

> She'll probably go after him to find answers about her mom, or just look for her on her own.


Of all new Teen Titans characters I think Crush will survive into 5G and the end of the current titans. I don't know why I just think there is probably a lot more they can do with Lobo's daughter then Roundhouse and Djinn.

----------


## Shen

> Of all new Teen Titans characters I think Crush will survive into 5G and the end of the current titans. I don't know why I just think there is probably a lot more they can do with Lobo's daughter then Roundhouse and Djinn.


Yeah so do I. It can be a really cool story, Crush looking for her mother whilst her father hunts her down. He doesn't care for her in a paternal way, but he has killed all other Czarnians and as well as his kids. Plus we'd get to find out more about Obelus. She has some potential.

----------


## Ansa

Maybe Bruce will be mad because Damian had the idea to build a new prison, because Arkham doesn't work, months before his old man  :Wink: 

(Yeah, I know it's not exactly the same, but still)

----------


## Fergus

> Maybe Bruce will be mad because Damian had the idea to build a new prison, because Arkham doesn't work, months before his old man 
> 
> (Yeah, I know it's not exactly the same, but still)


Nah Bruce has always had a secret jail in the Batcave and another under the JL HQ
Or did Bruce build a more secure Prison in his rebuilding of Gotham? Haven't started the new Batman yet.

----------


## Fergus

I think Djinn stands more of a chance. DC hardly uses Lobo not to mention his daughter. I know she's the most popular of the new kids but I don't see that there's much they can do.
She's like Rose Wilson but less versatile and her dad not as utilised as Deathstroke.

----------


## Fergus

Finally








BATMAN TALES: ONCE UPON A CRIME
U.S. Price: $9.99ON SALE 2/4
Featuring four distinct stories including Damian Wayne, Alfred and Batman, Derek Fridolfs and Dustin Nguyen bring together the DC Universe with classic fairytales.

Once upon a crime...

Damian Wayne dreams of becoming a real boy wonder--as long as he can avoid telling lies and making his nose grow.

Batman's butler takes an unexpected trip through the looking glass and finds himself in a topsy-turvy world, for Alfred's in Wonderland!

Gotham City Police Department detectives interrogate Gotham's most dangerous criminals looking for the princess who stole the pea.

And in our final tale, Batman meets a snow queen who leads him on a dangerous quest.

The creative team behind LI'L GOTHAM returns to their Bat-roots, this time with a fairy-tale flair!

Illustrated by Dustin Nguyen is a New York Times best-selling and Eisner Award-winning American comics creator best known for his work on Image Comics' Descender and Ascender, DC Comics' BATMAN: LI'L GOTHAM, Scholastic's DC Comics: Secret Hero Society and many other things Gotham-related.

Written by Derek Fridolfs has been Eisner Award-nominated for co-writing BATMAN: LI'L GOTHAM and is the #1 New York Times best-selling writer of the DC Comics: Secret Hero Society series. In addition, he's also written and provided art for titles including TEEN TITANS GO!, SCOOBY-DOO, LOONEY TUNES, Adventure Time, Regular Show, and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.


To view Preview Pages

https://www.dccomics.com/graphic-nov...e-upon-a-crime

----------


## Ansa

> Nah Bruce has always had a secret jail in the Batcave and another under the JL HQ
> Or did Bruce build a more secure Prison in his rebuilding of Gotham? Haven't started the new Batman yet.


He built a new one:

20200123_213348.jpg

It's not secret though. Just an alternative to Arkham (and Blackgate...)

----------


## Fergus

From Superman 19
#

----------


## Fergus

> He built a new one:
> 
> 20200123_213348.jpg
> 
> It's not secret though. Just an alternative to Arkham (and Blackgate...)


Nice but those inmates look uncomfortable. Imagine getting an itchy nose?

----------


## Ansa

> Nice but those inmates look uncomfortable. Imagine getting an itchy nose?


That and a prison able to hold you and the members of your family sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

----------


## Ansa

Hmpf...don't get me wrong, it's a beautiful cover, but I would be lying if I said I didn't feel a bit disappointed that every Robin but Damian got a cover for themselves and he has to share.

----------


## Digifiend

Agreed, this shouldn't be a decade variant.

----------


## Zaresh

> Hmpf...don't get me wrong, it's a beautiful cover, but I would be lying if I said I didn't feel a bit disappointed that every Robin but Damian got a cover for themselves and he has to share.


Not every Robin. Jason didn't either.
But then I wasn't counting with him having one. Life is unfair.
It's weird, because Damian is the current one and has been for a while now. But it's not the only one without one.

----------


## dietrich

> Not every Robin. Jason didn't either.
> But then I wasn't counting with him having one. Life is unfair.
> It's weird, because Damian is the current one and has been for a while now. But it's not the only one without one.


It would have been great to get solo covers for each Robin but no matter hopefully the stories will make up for it.

This cover is very cool. Love how they all look and the colours are fab.

Squad!

----------


## Zaresh

> It would have been great to get solo covers for each Robin but no matter hopefully the stories will make up for it.
> 
> This cover is very cool. Love how they all look and the colours are fab.
> 
> Squad!


Yep, it's a great cover. I love it.

----------


## Ansa

> Not every Robin. Jason didn't either.
> But then I wasn't counting with him having one. Life is unfair.
> It's weird, because Damian is the current one and has been for a while now. But it's not the only one without one.


But at least classic Dick and Jason look exactly the same. I thought one of those was supposed to be Jason.

----------


## Aahz

> Not every Robin. Jason didn't either.


It is wired that Carrie (who is an else world character) and Steph (who was Robin for one Story Arc) get covers and Jason and Damian don't.

----------


## Zaresh

> But at least classic Dick and Jason look exactly the same. I thought one of those was supposed to be Jason.


Nope. Every cover has the Robin of its decade but the last one, that is a cover with all of them. Jason debuted in 1983, so he has to share spot with Carrie. Those Robins are all Dick until Tim.

Besides, they have chosen the current costume that they gave Jason for him in the group cover. I guess, if he had had his own cover, he would be wearing that one in it.

----------


## adrikito

> Hmpf...don't get me wrong, it's a beautiful cover, but I would be lying if I said I didn't feel a bit disappointed that every Robin but Damian got a cover for themselves and he has to share.


Awesome.

I like to see Steph here.

----------


## Shen

> Awesome.
> 
> I like to see Steph here.


I agree. A lot of people still don't see her as a robin but she was.

----------


## Ansa

Some new Super Sons art from Jorge Jiménez's twitter account.


https://mobile.twitter.com/JorgeJimenezArt

----------


## adrikito

> I agree. A lot of people still don't see her as a robin but she was.


I am agree with you.

She doesn´t deserve be ignored for the fans or DC..

Something that DC is doing now with her. DC is now that is more focused in add Harley everywhere(when Steph fits more in Birds of Prey) than in remember Steph existence.  :Mad:  even avoiding BENDIS to do something Big with her despite they are NOT TOUCHING HER.  :Mad:  Is like they like to torture Steph fans.(the reason of her return) :Mad:

----------


## dietrich

> It is wired that Carrie (who is an else world character) and Steph (who was Robin for one Story Arc) get covers and Jason and Damian don't.


DC borrowed  heavily from Carrie when creating Tim so while she's an elsewrold Robin she has had a lasting impact on the Main DUC.

----------


## Ansa

Looks like Damian's story in the Robin 80th anniversary issue will be drawn by Jorge Jiménez and will involve the (real) super sons! I'm excited!

----------


## Jackalope89

> Looks like Damian's story in the Robin 80th anniversary issue will be drawn by Jorge Jiménez and will involve the (real) super sons! I'm excited!


Its something at least! And I'm eager to see it.

----------


## adrikito

> Looks like Damian's story in the Robin 80th anniversary issue will be drawn by Jorge Jiménez and will involve the (real) super sons! I'm excited!


Ohh no.. 

More Supersons..  :Frown:  

*Why can´t MAYA return?*  :Frown:  Damian, Maya and Goliath were THE BEST DAMIAN ERA.

----------


## Digifiend

Before Adam Glass's Teen Titans started and Bendis aged Jon up, I did think a new TT lineup could've consisted of Jon, Damian, Maya, Kathy (aka Beacon, Jon's alien farmer girl ex-neighbour) and a couple of others (possibly Kid Flash and Red Arrow, who did get used in Glass's team). Had Tomasi been given that book, I believe that's the sort of lineup he'd have chosen. It does seem odd that in two lineups now, Damian didn't choose to invite Maya to join the team. She used to be his best friend, before Jon came along, didn't she?

----------


## adrikito

Probably only GLEASON(+the fans) loved Maya..

Delaying REBIRTH a little more probably she would have been luckier..

----------


## dietrich

> Looks like Damian's story in the Robin 80th anniversary issue will be drawn by Jorge Jiménez and will involve the (real) super sons! I'm excited!


That's cool  but I would have rather it just be Damian.

Supersons is a great concept but it has nothing to do with Robin. this should be about Damian. If they are going to have a guest then it should be someone meaning to Damian as Robin like Dick. jon has nothing to do with Damian as Robin.

Tomasi likes the supersons concept. I get it but he shouldn't be using this Robin Anniversary as an excuse to write his duo.

----------


## dietrich

> Before Adam Glass's Teen Titans started and Bendis aged Jon up, I did think a new TT lineup could've consisted of Jon, Damian, Maya, Kathy (aka Beacon, Jon's alien farmer girl ex-neighbour) and a couple of others (possibly Kid Flash and Red Arrow, who did get used in Glass's team). Had Tomasi been given that book, I believe that's the sort of lineup he'd have chosen. It does seem odd that in two lineups now, Damian didn't choose to invite Maya to join the team. She used to be his best friend, before Jon came along, didn't she?


I would have liked Maya in the TT's

Is she a hero though. I got the impression she's like Nobody and Deathstroke isn't she? Working for the highest bidder but with a higher moral code

----------


## Darkcrusade25

> That's cool  but I would have rather it just be Damian.
> 
> Supersons is a great concept but it has nothing to do with Robin. this should be about Damian. If they are going to have a guest then it should be someone meaning to Damian as Robin like Dick. jon has nothing to do with Damian as Robin.
> 
> Tomasi likes the supersons concept. I get it but he shouldn't be using this Robin Anniversary as an excuse to write his duo.


Adam Glass is also on this so maybe that’s the Damian solo story.

----------


## Ansa

> That's cool  but I would have rather it just be Damian.
> 
> Supersons is a great concept but it has nothing to do with Robin. this should be about Damian. If they are going to have a guest then it should be someone meaning to Damian as Robin like Dick. jon has nothing to do with Damian as Robin.
> 
> Tomasi likes the supersons concept. I get it but he shouldn't be using this Robin Anniversary as an excuse to write his duo.


I don't see how having Jon in there would hinder the story from being about Damian and Robin.
Robin for Damian is about redemption and developement. I think his friendship with Jon shows that very well.

Edit: Or if we want to go with Batman and Robin Eternal (?, too tired to look it up): Bruce told him Robin is about suffering. He seems to suffer enough in that panel  :Wink:

----------


## millernumber1

> Ohh no.. 
> 
> More Supersons..  
> 
> *Why can´t MAYA return?*  Damian, Maya and Goliath were THE BEST DAMIAN ERA.


I don't think Tomasi would want to steal a story from Gleason that way. But I also would have loved to see that.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Before Adam Glass's Teen Titans started and Bendis aged Jon up, I did think a new TT lineup could've consisted of Jon, Damian, Maya, Kathy (aka Beacon, Jon's alien farmer girl ex-neighbour) and a couple of others (possibly Kid Flash and Red Arrow, who did get used in Glass's team). Had Tomasi been given that book, I believe that's the sort of lineup he'd have chosen. It does seem odd that in two lineups now, Damian didn't choose to invite Maya to join the team. She used to be his best friend, before Jon came along, didn't she?


A sister-like figure, really.

But I would have loved that line-up, and really hoped it would happen. And while the current TT run has its moments to be sure, I feel that line-up (Jon, Maya, Kathy, Emiko, and Wallace) is more in line with how Teen Titans ought to be then a group of "edgy, we don't play by our parent's rules" teens, so to speak. 

And the Bizarro Boyz arc in Superman (which included Maya and Kathy) gave a little taste of what it could have been like too.

----------


## Ansa

"edgy, we don't play by our parent's rules" Teen Titans don't work as a premise for a book for me, because we all know they are doomed to fail. The Justice League is the leading superhero group in modern DC and under Didio that means that every other hero-team like the Titans or Teen Titans have to play by their rules or they're wrong.
Bruce and co aren't going to overthink their methods, groups that don't follow their rules get punished and in the end everyone realizes that the Justice League was right. The end.

I don't want to read this.

----------


## Rac7d*

> That's cool  but I would have rather it just be Damian.
> 
> Supersons is a great concept but it has nothing to do with Robin. this should be about Damian. If they are going to have a guest then it should be someone meaning to Damian as Robin like Dick. jon has nothing to do with Damian as Robin.
> 
> Tomasi likes the supersons concept. I get it but he shouldn't be using this Robin Anniversary as an excuse to write his duo.


Robin makes up 1/2 of the supersons. It’s a duo that original to him in the mantle.  I could say agent 37 of spiral
Has nothing to do with  Robin either

----------


## dietrich

> I don't see how having Jon in there would hinder the story from being about Damian and Robin.
> Robin for Damian is about redemption and developement. I think his friendship with Jon shows that very well.
> 
> Edit: Or if we want to go with Batman and Robin Eternal (?, too tired to look it up): Bruce told him Robin is about suffering. He seems to suffer enough in that panel


Yes Damian throwing Jon off a building or Damian the animal lover ignoring a cast in need to go yell at a Jay-walker is about Damian's redemption. [in that nstory jon is the one who runs to go save the cat]


Supersons did too much using Damian to push Jon but aside from that why does a Damian Robin story have to have Jon tagging along?

Damian was Robin and a solo for 10 years before Jon. I would rather a stroy that was just about Damian.

----------


## dietrich

> Robin makes up 1/2 of the supersons. It’s a duo that original to him in the mantle.  I could say agent 37 of spiral
> Has nothing to do with  Robin either


No you couldn't because Agent 37 has nothing to dfo with Robin but DickBat does and Dick was the one that made Damian Robin.

But I guess you are correct Dick and Jon are totally the same in the story of Damian as Robin Jon will be a great . He is an important person in Damian's life.

Robin is part of the Supersons so yeah no reason why this celebration of Robin can't include the other half just like Batman 80yr anniversary had the Justice league and the worlds finest

----------


## Fergus

So Damian doesn't have a solo Robin Cover.
His story is going to be about the Supersons or a Robin story with Jon
Last Robin celebration Damian was the one Robin that was left out only arriving around Issue 30 something of Batman and Robin Eternal
Damian doesn't get any time as Robin next to Batman replaced by Duke and a Starfish and is about to lose the Robin mantle anyway.

Jeez .

Damian has the worst luck but maybe DC is trying to say something to us. And in all this He is supposed to be the official Robin.

I don't think DC likes Damian as Robin. WB does but I think DC just like after Morrison still just wants him dead and gone.

----------


## Fergus

> No you couldn't because Agent 37 has nothing to dfo with Robin but DickBat does and Dick was the one that made Damian Robin.
> 
> But I guess you are correct Dick and Jon are totally the same in the story of Damian as Robin Jon will be a great . He is an important person in Damian's life.
> 
> Robin is part of the Supersons so yeah no reason why this celebration of Robin can't include the other half just like Batman 80yr anniversary had the Justice league and the worlds finest


If only Jon was around Damian would not be doing what he was doing in TT and because he left and went to the future Damian became Hitler.

What were you saying about Damian having ownership of his own redemption?

----------


## Ansa

Geeze, and I thought I was hard to please. I'm just happy we'll get a story that will depict Damian as a good friend and hero judging by this panel we got and not just as an arrogant prick, like the solicitation suggested.

----------


## Fergus

> Adam Glass is also on this so maybe that’s the Damian solo story.


If they let Glass do Damian's story then that's all the confirmation I need that DC is still upset that WB forced them to bring back Damian. The guy had Damian become a suicide bomber

----------


## Fergus

> Geeze, and I thought I was hard to please. I'm just happy we'll get a story that will depict Damian as a good friend and hero judging by this panel we got and not just as an arrogant prick, like the solicitation suggested.


Damian wasn't a good friend in Supersons though. Streets of Gotham he was a good friend

Tomasi made a choice. He could have written Damian solo or even if he wanted to write a story about Damian being a good friend he doesn't need Jon for that.

The boys are in  their hero uniforms so this is likely a Supersons story not a Robin story.

This story has 2 heroes not one.

----------


## Fergus

> I don't see how having Jon in there would hinder the story from being about Damian and Robin.
> Robin for Damian is about redemption and developement. I think his friendship with Jon shows that very well.
> 
> Edit: Or if we want to go with Batman and Robin Eternal (?, too tired to look it up): Bruce told him Robin is about suffering. He seems to suffer enough in that panel


The Supersons isn't a story of Damian's redemption or development on the contrary it ignores a lot of his redemption and development.

The Supersons is a story of Jon Kent becoming a hero despite being paired up with that awful Wayne kid.

Damian doesn't grow in the Supersons. Her doesn't do anything we haven't seen him do before and he isn't anymore heroic. He's actually less.
Even Maya who was with Damian on his year of Redemption is written as not seeing Damian as all that heroic. Maya! The one who said that Damian's R was about Redemption. Even her ignores everything they did together in RSOB.

Supersons was about Jon becoming a hero, the boys learning to get along [Dini already wrote that story and better for Damian] and having adventures together.

The only thing Supersons does for Damian's redemption is predict that he isn't redeemed. It shows that all that nonsense about Damian's redemption is just that nonsense because Jon doing bad in the future is due to Damian.

The book threw Damian under the bus majorly for the sake of Jon.

I find it odd that fans claim Damian is regressed in Rebirth aside from Supersons when the reverse is true.

Tomasi and Percy are two writers who regressed Damian's development.

Percy's Damian at least made new strides and was far more heroic than Supersons. Wanting to make friends, follow in Grayson's steps, learn to lead, was more mature and more than anything else he was ready to lay dowe his life for his new team shortly after meeting them. Percy's Damian was also trying to save The Fist because it was the right thing to do not because he was being petty and wanted to prove something to Batman like Supersons Damian was.

Tomasi regressed Damian to spotlight a new character and his Damian wasn't especially mature or heroic.

The truth is that Damian in Supersons is the only version that is regressed. Of all the writers who wrote Damian since 2016. I can point someway they have added something new. Some growth. supersons Damian is the only one who has gone backwards and not forward.

He doesn't do anything we haven't seen him do before.

If Tomasi wants to do a story about Damian's redemption/friendship then Maya is the better character to use since she is the one character that symbolises this.
Maya should have been the guest in this celebration of Damian as Robin not Jon.

Damian's Robin is indeed about suffering and continues to be all about that. Tomasi is making the same mistake Tynion and Synder did with BRE though on a smaller scale.

----------


## Fergus

> Robin makes up 1/2 of the supersons. Its a duo that original to him in the mantle.  I could say agent 37 of spiral
> Has nothing to do with  Robin either


Supersons is a duo that's original to Damian as Robin you are correct but this is a celebration of Robin. One half of that duo not the Duo.

I have an anniversary with my wife where we celebrate us as a duo. On my Birthday I get to celebrate me. I get to do whatever I want away from the kids and wife. It is about me even though I am one half of a duo

----------


## Ansa

God, if you guys want to be prissy, fine. The only thing I see on this panel is Damian shielding his best friend with his own body and being a hero and good friend.
There is no pleasing you guys. And I disagree about Super Sons, but you guys seem hellbebt on being angry.

----------


## Korath

I'm really sad that Damian will have to share even more page with Kid Jon (whom I don't really like, while his teen version is far more interesting to me) when there is so many other characters he could - and should - interact with : Talia, Bruce, Selina, Duke, Dick, Jason, Tim, Maya, Suren, Goliath, the Fist crew... Hell, even just one story about him, alone, proving to no one but himself that he's a hero and a great Robin would be better than more Kid Jon tagging along and spouting "We are the SUPERSONS!" every three panels...

----------


## dietrich

> The Supersons isn't a story of Damian's redemption or development on the contrary it ignores a lot of his redemption and development.
> 
> The Supersons is a story of Jon Kent becoming a hero despite being paired up with that awful Wayne kid.
> 
> Damian doesn't grow in the Supersons. Her doesn't do anything we haven't seen him do before and he isn't anymore heroic. He's actually less.
> Even Maya who was with Damian on his year of Redemption is written as not seeing Damian as all that heroic. Maya! The one who said that Damian's R was about Redemption. Even her ignores everything they did together in RSOB.
> 
> Supersons was about Jon becoming a hero, the boys learning to get along [Dini already wrote that story and better for Damian] and having adventures together.
> 
> ...


Finally!

I've been saying this and arguing the Damian is regressed in Rebirth thing for a while now . It bugs me that fans make this claim while also upholding Tomasi and Supersons as an example of a well written Damian.

Supersons is was one of the best titles from DC in Rebirth and hands down the most enjoyable out of everything from DC in a while but Damian is regressed and exaggerated.

I get that this done because he is the bad cop of the duo. Dialled up to 100 percent moustache twirling level of evil to better contrast Jon's pure Superman goodness but that doesn't take away from or make his regression anymore factual.

They have a fun dynamic but Damian was written less heroic and more childish. Fans were ecstatic when Damian admitted that Jon was his friend when Damian's character already was past that stage even before Tomasi's B&R.
Supersons set him back all the way back to his 1st TT days when he was briefly on the same team as Conner, Rose Wilson etc it set him back to right at the point when he 1st became Robin.
Had him trying to solve the case about kid Amazo not because it was the right thing to do but because he wanted to solve the case before Batman to prove himself. Damian hasn't been about that in years and years. He does good because it's the right thing.

Maya would have been better but I would just prefer a Damian solo story but Damian not getting to do his thing solo is becoming a pattern. He isn't the only Robin nor was he the only Robin-like sidekick during his tenure so I'm not surprised his story is shared  :Stick Out Tongue: 

Ironic for a character like Damian.

----------


## dietrich

> Adam Glass is also on this so maybe thats the Damian solo story.


It just keeps getting better and better.

----------


## dietrich

> God, if you guys want to be prissy, fine. The only thing I see on this panel is Damian shielding his best friend with his own body and being a hero and good friend.
> There is no pleasing you guys. And I disagree about Super Sons, but you guys seem hellbebt on being angry.


It's very easy to please us just give us a solo story of Damian as Robin doing good and being in character. That shouldn't be hard to do.

----------


## dietrich

> I'm really sad that Damian will have to share even more page with Kid Jon (whom I don't really like, while his teen version is far more interesting to me) when there is so many other characters he could - and should - interact with : Talia, Bruce, Selina, Duke, Dick, Jason, Tim, Maya, Suren, Goliath, the Fist crew... Hell, even just one story about him, alone, proving to no one but himself that he's a hero and a great Robin would be better than more Kid Jon tagging along and spouting "We are the SUPERSONS!" every three panels...


I don't see why we can't just get Damian being Robin or if it's about his redemption then Talia or Suren or Maya. Even Dick but better is solo damian.

Damian saving his pal isn't anything to do with Robin. I would try to save my pal and I'm no hero. Anyone would try to save som eone they care about. That's a given.

Damian saving someone he doesn't know that would be better.

Injustice 2 that issue that showed us Damian in his Robin days trying and failing to get back home by a set time because he chose to stop and help people on his way.

That is the type of story this should be about and that was in the injustice universe of all things.

----------


## dietrich

Inc and Injustice



https://twitter.com/airair_ii


Robins




https://twitter.com/orangepie_want

----------


## CPSparkles

Damian's story is about how far a friend would go according to Jorge on twitter. The problem is 
1, Robin isn't about friendship. Supersons is about friendship. I get why some might take offence. This gives the impression that it's celebrating their friendship which is not at all what Robin is or should be about.
2, Supersons is no more so why tease something that's gone? Not to mention that everything points to damian being detrimental to Jon 

According to recent stories in the end Damian leads to Jon's doing bad and their friendship doesn't really go anywhere. 
They aren't going to be growing up together being batman and Superman.
So what exactly are we doing? 

Dick's story is set during his agent 37 years so Damian isn't alone in the 'go no where setting'.

----------


## Digifiend

> Adam Glass is also on this so maybe thats the Damian solo story.


His Teen Titans co-writer Robbie Thompson is involved too - good chance it's a Teen Titans story. Same goes for Marv Wolfman's, since he was the New Teen Titans writer.

----------


## CPSparkles

I wish we got a story that was set more in the present by Tomasi.

Young Jon = in the past
TT Damian = Damian going through a dark time.
Both are not good for Damian as Robin going forward.

----------


## dietrich

> Damian's story is about how far a friend would go according to Jorge on twitter. The problem is 
> 1, Robin isn't about friendship. Supersons is about friendship. I get why some might take offence. This gives the impression that it's celebrating their friendship which is not at all what Robin is or should be about.
> 2, Supersons is no more so why tease something that's gone? Not to mention that everything points to damian being detrimental to Jon 
> 
> According to recent stories in the end Damian leads to Jon's doing bad and their friendship doesn't really go anywhere. 
> They aren't going to be growing up together being batman and Superman.
> So what exactly are we doing? 
> 
> Dick's story is set during his agent 37 years so Damian isn't alone in the 'go no where setting'.


Fans certainly are excited online for the Supersons story. It's amazing just how loud the supersons fans are and how much that partnership has become part of Damian as a character.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Fans certainly are excited online for the Supersons story. It's amazing just how loud the supersons fans are and how much that partnership has become part of Damian as a character.


Sometimes DC does give us the content we want but at the wrong time  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Digifiend

I bet that had Bendis not took over Superman and relaunched Legion, Super Sons wouldn't have been cancelled. At least, not so soon.

----------


## Blue22

It might mostly be because I'm happy to see real Jon again but I have no problem with Super Sons being the focal point of Damian's story here. Nor have I ever felt that their friendship was *only* beneficial to Jon and a hindrance to Damian as a character (if we're being completely honest, that's more how I go back and forth on feeling about both of his Titans teams). It damn sure didn't set him back in any way. If anything, I feel it's a testament to how far he's come

With Colin gone from existence, Damian finding another kid his age (or...close enough) and forming the kind of connection those two had is one of the best things to happen to him while he was on the road to being a better hero and a better person in general. He needed someone like that. A friend he had that was outside the family who could be a foil to him but also share a deep connection with. Granted, that person was Maya first but Tomasi and Gleason seem to be the only ones who thinks she's marketable. Not that it matters, anyway. People are allowed to have more than one best friend.

I've always thought both Damian and Jon brought out something in each other that they couldn't get from their other friends and family. 

For Jon, being with Damian showed him the life of a hero outside of Superman's world.  When they're together there's this stronger sense of Independence that I get from him that you didnt see as often in his Dad's titles. Despite being written by the same person, Jon felt different in Super Sons than he did in Superman. And whether that was intentional or now, I always felt it was a really nice touch.

For Damian, Jon brought some MUCH needed levity. Especially with him going through all the bullshit he's still enduring in other titles. His time with Jon was the time he had to unwind, to have fun, to forget about the not so great stuff that was happening in his life around the same time. For once in his life, he had someone close to his age that he could let his guard down with, even if it was just a little. Someone to be protective of. Someone he got to try just being a kid around. Some may disagree but I enjoyed seeing that side of Damian. I thought the softer side Jon brought out in him could have been beneficial to him as a hero had their friendship been allowed to continue the way it was. 

NOW however, with Bendis at the helm and Jon now a whole seven years older, I feel like their dynamic actually has become what detractors were saying that it's been from the start. Damian looking bad for the sake of making Jon look good. They don't feel like equals anymore. Now it's like...the mature, experienced big brother and the bratty little brother who doesn't know what he's doing. Which not only completely wrecks the kind of relationship they had before but is already VERY similar to the one Damian already has with Dick.

----------


## Yennefer

Did Colin die or did he just get deleted from the continuity?

----------


## Korath

I guess Colin isn't bankable enough compared to the Son of Superman...

@Blue22 : I actually dislike that Supersons made Damian act so much like a normal kid. He isn't, and he won't ever be. He is a child soldier, born and bred to kill, and even if he left that behind him, Batman's crusade still make him a child soldier. He can have his childish elements (like sneaking out to play at the arcade) but the sheer goofiness and the fact that Supersons kept using him as a tool for Jon makes abundantly clear that he must not interact with child characters in that way. 

Damian aloofness and awkwardness when dealing with people his age are his strengths, not weaknesses that need to be erased by the writer. The kid deserve happiness, but he won't find it by being a kid. He hasn't been allowed to be one, he won't ever be one. But he can mature into a damn fine young man. That's why healthy figures of that age (such as Dick, Maya or even the little bit which was hinted with Duke at the end of We Are Robin) are better for him and his growth.

----------


## Blue22

See, I never viewed Damian as a "tool" for Jon. They always felt like equals to me, both benefitting from what the other had to offer. 

As for Damian, himself, I actually think it was very healthy for him to try and experience being the kid that he was never allowed to be. It's not like being around Jon turned him into this happy go-lucky Ninja-Batman version of himself. He still very much felt like Damian. Just....not as uptight or as brooding. There was only ONE time in the entire Super Sons run when I thought "Okay Tomasi....now you're making him too childish". And that wasn't until the very end. 

Like I said, it was a chance for him to lower his guard around someone from time to time. And let someone in that he didn't necessarily have to like he did with his family. It's not gonna completely change his personality or 
anything and I definitely never wanted it to. But I think having that one relationship in addition to the ones he already made have been nothing but good for him in terms of character growth.




> Did Colin die or did he just get deleted from the continuity?


Deleted, unfortunately. If he was dead, there'd at least be a high chance of him coming back eventually -___-

As much as I love Super Sons, I preferred Colin as Damian's potential first best friend. Someone he didn't make friends with because he's related to them or because his dad is friends with their dad....Or because he killed their dad

----------


## Katana500

I hope Maya doesn't go the same way as Colin.
Maybe theirs a curse. if your friends with Damian your fate is too be deleted from the universe.

----------


## dietrich

> Did Colin die or did he just get deleted from the continuity?


Colin didn't go anywhere he's in Once upon a crime which comes out next month it's just that writer's care more about pushing their IP's they are connected to than they care about following continuity.

Gleason keeps using Maya because it's in his interest to make her big so he can get royalties.

While Tomasi didn't create Jon or Maya he created Maya's dad and the Supersons are a property related to him.

Nothing stops him or anyone from using Colin they just choose not to.

----------


## dietrich

> I hope Maya doesn't go the same way as Colin.
> Maybe theirs a curse. if your friends with Damian your fate is too be deleted from the universe.


Did you delete them?

----------


## dietrich

> I guess Colin isn't bankable enough compared to the Son of Superman...
> 
> @Blue22 : I actually dislike that Supersons made Damian act so much like a normal kid. He isn't, and he won't ever be. He is a child soldier, born and bred to kill, and even if he left that behind him, Batman's crusade still make him a child soldier. He can have his childish elements (like sneaking out to play at the arcade) but the sheer goofiness and the fact that Supersons kept using him as a tool for Jon makes abundantly clear that he must not interact with child characters in that way. 
> 
> Damian aloofness and awkwardness when dealing with people his age are his strengths, not weaknesses that need to be erased by the writer. The kid deserve happiness, but he won't find it by being a kid. He hasn't been allowed to be one, he won't ever be one. But he can mature into a damn fine young man. That's why healthy figures of that age (such as Dick, Maya or even the little bit which was hinted with Duke at the end of We Are Robin) are better for him and his growth.


I liked that Jon brought out that part of Damian but these days I'm so glad Jon got aged up and the Superson can no longer be.
Superdsons was becoming too much of Damian's character and then when you get ignorant fans saying stuff like if Jon was here Damian wouldn't be doing this or that! 

That kind of nonsense just pissed me off because 
1, it's not true. Jon has never been Damian's morality
2, It's incredibly disrespectful to try to suggest that Damian's redemption or decision to be a hero can be attributed to a character that was created 10yrs after Damian became a hero.

----------


## Katana500

> Did you delete them?


 If I had the power of deletion i'd defo go on a power trip. They wouldn't need to worry though, id have much more pressing targets! Mwahahahhahahaha

----------


## Blue22

> Colin didn't go anywhere he's in Once upon a crime which comes out next month it's just that writer's care more about pushing their IP's they are connected to than they care about following continuity.
> .


Damn. I keep forgetting about Once Upon a Crime. That's something, at least.

----------


## dietrich

> See, I never viewed Damian as a "tool" for Jon. They always felt like equals to me, both benefitting from what the other had to offer. 
> 
> As for Damian, himself, I actually think it was very healthy for him to try and experience being the kid that he was never allowed to be. It's not like being around Jon turned him into this happy go-lucky Ninja-Batman version of himself. He still very much felt like Damian. Just....not as uptight or as brooding. There was only ONE time in the entire Super Sons run when I thought "Okay Tomasi....now you're making him too childish". And that wasn't until the very end. 
> 
> Like I said, it was a chance for him to lower his guard around someone from time to time. And let someone in that he didn't necessarily have to like he did with his family. It's not gonna completely change his personality or 
> anything and I definitely never wanted it to. But I think having that one relationship in addition to the ones he already made have been nothing but good for him in terms of character growth.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Who deleted him? people shouldn't assume. There's a difference between not being used and deleted. That is just misinformation especially since Colin is back next month.

Damian throwing Jon off a building
Damian ignoring an animal peril so that Jon can save
The constant Superdickery where Jon shows or tells us how strong he is or how much powers he has compared to Damian's none including when Damian is minding his own business exercising
The constant short jokes
The whole Damian is the reason why Jon will go do the one bad thing he does in the future
Damian being the joke or all the Jokes being at his expense eg. Old man Robin or the 2 girls from the other planet who have never met Damian aside from him SAVING them taking Jon's side right away in mocking him.

I could go on.

Damian was written as a caricature of himself to push Jon. There's a reason why fans who can't stand Damian in other titles love supersons because it's literally Damian getting knocked down issue after issue.

Jon brought out a side of Damian that was him just being a kid which I'm grateful for but these days I'm glad DC ended the partnership. It was becoming too much of who Damian as a character is.

Hopefully Last LOS's using Damian to increase sales is the last time Damian will be used in service of Jon kent

----------


## dietrich

> If I had the power of deletion i'd defo go on a power trip. They wouldn't need to worry though, id have much more pressing targets! Mwahahahhahahaha


Lol Imagine what you could do with so much power? That's too much power for one fan.

----------


## Blue22

> especially since Colin is back next month.


I said before that I forgot about that, didnt I? XD




> Damian throwing Jon off a building
> Damian ignoring an animal peril so that Jon can save
> The constant Superdickery where Jon shows or tells us how strong he is or how much powers he has compared to Damian's none including when Damian is minding his own business exercising
> The constant short jokes
> The whole Damian is the reason why Jon will go do the one bad thing he does in the future
> Damian being the joke or all the Jokes being at his expense eg. Old man Robin or the 2 girls from the other planet who have never met Damian aside from him SAVING them taking Jon's side right away in mocking him.
> 
> I could go on.
> 
> Damian was written as a caricature of himself to push Jon. There's a reason why fans who can't stand Damian in other titles love supersons because it's literally Damian getting knocked down issue after issue.


Most of the stuff you listed were literally just jokes/comedic moments between the two. Something that should not only be expected in a more light-hearted and comedic series, but something friends do with each other all the time. It's not like it was all one sided. Damian's taken his fair share of pot shots at Jon too. That's just how they operate. Did Jon have more than Damian? I don't know. I wasn't necessarily keeping score. But they were both dicks to each other both in the way friends tend to be and in the way Damian is with *everyone*.

Like I said before, there was maybe one time in that entire series when I thought Damian was written in a way that made him seem overly childish or out of character.  And it was so damn brief that I can't even remember exactly what he said. Aside from that, he was exactly how I'd expect him to be in a goofy, child friendly series where he's teamed up with another super kid. And I'm definitely not saying this as one of the people who only reads Super Sons becasue it supposedly makes Damian look bad. The kid's been one of my favorite comic book characters for years. I've loved watching his growth from his early days in Morrison's run. And, I still loved Super Sons to death and think his character needed something like this. And I'd have loved to see how their dynamic would have played out had they been able to move Jon onto a slightly more serious title like Teen Titans (Percy's run. I don't think there's any place for him in Glass' Titans).

I will agree with you on one thing though. The notion that Jon is Damian's moral compass has to stop (as does the shipping. But that's a whole other can of worms). And I see it more from fans than I do DC. The notion that Jon is the only thing keeping Damian from being a monster or that Damian is corrupting Jon needs to stop. He knew the difference between right and wrong WAY before he met Jon.




> If I had the power of deletion i'd defo go on a power trip. They wouldn't need to worry though, id have much more pressing targets! Mwahahahhahahaha


Fuck deleting. Give me the power to restore. The only thing I'd do is bring back Real Jon, make Maya relevant again, and restore the Teen Titans to their Pre-Flashpoint history. There are many things I want from DC right now but those are the most pressing matters lol

----------


## Digifiend

> restore the Teen Titans to their Pre-Flashpoint history.


Pretty much already happened. Evidence:

In Justice League Odyssey, Starfire and Cyborg are old friends. They didn't know each other in New 52.The latest Nightwing issue had flashbacks to the original and New Teen Titans.Bart Allen visited the 2003 Titans Tower when looking for Tim, Cassie and Conner in Flash Annual #2. If that team had never existed he'd have found an empty space where the tower should've been.
That means at bare minimum, the original, 70s, New Teen Titans (1980-1995) and 2000s Teen Titans definitely existed. Only the 1996 Teen Titans and 1999 Titans team remain uncertain, which are due to nobody from the 1996 team being used in current continuity and the 1999 team including the currently not existing Jesse Quick.

----------


## Blue22

They've been on the right track already in regards to acknowledging the Titans' past. But considering we're still in the Post-Flashpoint universe, that raises A LOT of questions that still need to answered. Particularly in regards to the 2003 team. I'm usually not a fan of these but need an event or something cuz it feels like they're just throwing in random old callbacks regardless of whether or not it fits in with the current timeline. I want the old TT back. But I want it to make sense still lol

I need something totally concrete that can't be debated. Something that screams "The Teen Titans and ALL of their history are back". Or maybe I'm trippin' and that already happened in like Doomsday Clock or something else I didn't read.

----------


## dietrich

> I said before that I forgot about that, didnt I? XD
> 
> 
> 
> Most of the stuff you listed were literally just jokes/comedic moments between the two. Something that should not only be expected in a more light-hearted and comedic series, but something friends do with each other all the time. It's not like it was all one sided. Damian's taken his fair share of pot shots at Jon too. That's just how they operate. Did Jon have more than Damian? I don't know. I wasn't necessarily keeping score. But they were both dicks to each other both in the way friends tend to be and in the way Damian is with *everyone*.
> 
> Like I said before, there was maybe one time in that entire series when I thought Damian was written in a way that made him seem overly childish or out of character.  And it was so damn brief that I can't even remember exactly what he said. Aside from that, he was exactly how I'd expect him to be in a goofy, child friendly series where he's teamed up with another super kid. And I'm definitely not saying this as one of the people who only reads Super Sons becasue it supposedly makes Damian look bad. The kid's been one of my favorite comic book characters for years. I've loved watching his growth from his early days in Morrison's run. And, I still loved Super Sons to death and think his character needed something like this. And I'd have loved to see how their dynamic would have played out had they been able to move Jon onto a slightly more serious title like Teen Titans (Percy's run. I don't think there's any place for him in Glass' Titans).
> 
> I will agree with you on one thing though. The notion that Jon is Damian's moral compass has to stop (as does the shipping. But that's a whole other can of worms). And I see it more from fans than I do DC. The notion that Jon is the only thing keeping Damian from being a monster or that Damian is corrupting Jon needs to stop. He knew the difference between right and wrong WAY before he met Jon.
> ...



I know that you aren't one of those who got into the character of Damian via Supersons and i also don't believe that you or anyone else here read the title because it was the only place they could stomach Damian.

I would also argue that while those examples might be viewed as jokes that's subjective the objective truth is that they DID make him look bad at the expense of Jon.

Damian's only pot shots at Jon were  around him being a farmboy or Damian bragging which also made Damian childish and pompous.

We have seen Damian relate to kids around his age in a casual situation. We saw this with Colin, Suren and Maya. So Tomasi already had something to work off of and we the readers already had an example of how he should be. Even compared to Maps.

Compare all those established examples of Damian to Jon and tell me you can't see what's wrong.

Not even gonna touch on all the comedic violence in Supersons

----------


## dietrich

> They've been on the right track already in regards to acknowledging the Titans' past. But considering we're still in the Post-Flashpoint universe, that raises A LOT of questions that still need to answered. Particularly in regards to the 2003 team. I'm usually not a fan of these but need an event or something cuz it feels like they're just throwing in random old callbacks regardless of whether or not it fits in with the current timeline. I want the old TT back. But I want it to make sense still lol
> 
> I need something totally concrete that can't be debated. Something that screams "The Teen Titans and ALL of their history are back". Or maybe I'm trippin' and that already happened in like Doomsday Clock or something else I didn't read.


Doomsday Clock is iffy it pretty much restores everything but titles continue to contradict it so I don't know. For example Damian's story in the Alfred tribute is about to contradict since that shows stuff that should belong on a new world [New52 now all supposed to have happened on a different earth]
Amongst other things.

I don't think DDC is going to be 100% relevant.
Isn't Cyborg still a founding member of the JL? How does Star, Raven and BB being a part of Tim's and Damian's TT group work then and their ages?

----------


## Blue22

> Damian bragging which also made Damian childish and pompous.


I mean....Damian _is_ childish and pompous. Not as much as he was when he was first introduced, obviously. But he still has those qualities even outside of Super Sons. That's always kinda been part of his charm.




> We have seen Damian relate to kids around his age in a casual situation. We saw this with Colin, Suren and Maya. So Tomasi already had something to work off of and we the readers already had an example of how he should be. Even compared to Maps.
> 
> Compare all those established examples of Damian to Jon and tell me you can't see what's wrong.


I...uh...can't see what's wrong lol

Damian just has a different relationship than he does with all of those other people. It's honestly not unlike the different dynamics I have with certain friends as opposed to others.




> I don't think DDC is going to be 100% relevant.
> Isn't Cyborg still a founding member of the JL? How does Star, Raven and BB being a part of Tim's and Damian's TT group work then and their ages?


Apparently Cyborg's founding status has been revoked so who knows what's going on with him now? Odyssey and a few other titles imply that he has a previously established friendship with Raven and Kory. But they still seem hesitant to straight up say that he was a Titan.

As for BB and Raven, last I checked, things are still kinda iffy with them but they appear to have been at least aged up to the rest of their Titans and their histories have been...somewhat brought back....kinda sorta. Not sure how much though because if they're all the way back to where they were before Flashpoint, they'd be a couple right now.

----------


## adrikito

> The Supersons isn't a story of Damian's redemption or development on the contrary it ignores a lot of his redemption and development.
> 
> The Supersons is a story of Jon Kent becoming a hero despite being paired up with that awful Wayne kid.
> 
> Damian doesn't grow in the Supersons. Her doesn't do anything we haven't seen him do before and he isn't anymore heroic. He's actually less.
> Even Maya who was with Damian on his year of Redemption is written as not seeing Damian as all that heroic. Maya! The one who said that Damian's R was about Redemption. Even her ignores everything they did together in RSOB.
> 
> Supersons was about Jon becoming a hero, the boys learning to get along [Dini already wrote that story and better for Damian] and having adventures together.
> 
> ...


FINALLY someone that notices about it.

For this I am not visiting CBR now like in the past.. Damian was my reason of my frequents visits to CBR and I added a lot of posts in his appreciations in the past.

But many people here transformed this in one Supersons gallery and I am not interested in remember Supersons..




> Percy's Damian at least made new strides and was far more heroic than Supersons. Wanting to make friends, follow in Grayson's steps, learn to lead, was more mature and more than anything else he was ready to lay dowe his life for his new team shortly after meeting them. Percy's Damian was also trying to save The Fist because it was the right thing to do not because he was being petty and wanted to prove something to Batman like Supersons Damian was.
> 
> Tomasi regressed Damian to spotlight a new character and his Damian wasn't especially mature or heroic.
> 
> If Tomasi wants to do a story about Damian's redemption/friendship then Maya is the better character to use since she is the one character that symbolises this.
> Maya should have been the guest in this celebration of Damian as Robin not Jon.


When we losed GLEASON we losed Maya too  :Frown:

----------


## Digifiend

There's no reason why other creators couldn't use her. Tomasi's used her before.

----------


## Blue22

Tomasi and Gleason were a dream team so it's no surprise he'd be the only other person who cared enough to use Maya. Unfortunately he seems to be the only person who cares enough to. 

I still think she should have been a shoe-in for both of Damian's Titans teams. At least someone he could have made some off-hand comment about considering. But I guess she's stuck baby sitting the bizzaro boys until someone remembers she exists -____-

Personally, I think she's interesting enough to be a character in her own right and ot just someone who appear to back up Damian or Jon. Establish her as her own hero, you cowards! She's probably not ready to carry any kind of solo but, at least give me Maya as a new Birds of Prey or Outsiders member.

----------


## CPSparkles

> I liked that Jon brought out that part of Damian but these days I'm so glad Jon got aged up and the Superson can no longer be.
> Superdsons was becoming too much of Damian's character and then when you get ignorant fans saying stuff like if Jon was here Damian wouldn't be doing this or that! 
> 
> That kind of nonsense just pissed me off because 
> 1, it's not true. Jon has never been Damian's morality
> 2, It's incredibly disrespectful to try to suggest that Damian's redemption or decision to be a hero can be attributed to a character that was created 10yrs after Damian became a hero.


Do you really mean that or are you just feeling really upset with this story having the Supersons?

I have issues with Supersons too. I feel that Damian was negatively cast and I understand how irritating it is for ss fans to give Jon credit for Damian being good or their tendency to act like Damian has never had a friend or give Jon credit for Damian's redemption but even with all that I'm glad we had supersons. I was sad to see them go and Jon aged up was pointless.

Hopefully we'll get a Damian solo stroy. I'm more worried about the Adam Glass TT story than the Supersons story. I just hope that someone remembers that we are supposed to be celebrating him and make this a positive story about him [looking at you Glass]

----------


## CPSparkles

> There's no reason why other creators couldn't use her. Tomasi's used her before.


Tomasi only used her in stories he co-wrote with Gleason. This would hsave been a chance to use her on his own. Jon Kent has a future maya is still struggling. This would have been perfection .

Maya was with Damian during his redemption tour he understand more than maybe Dick and Bruce what Robin means to Damian and how hard Damian has come.

She understands that his R is for redemption. Jon doesn't get any of that. This would have been a great way yto bring this back to Damian's Redemption and what is special about Damian and Robin.

They suffered together and she watched him try to atone for his past.

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/OtterTheAuthor

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/SAHARA_LEE_






https://twitter.com/yes_suree

----------


## sifighter

First I'd like to say that I honestly hope that when the 5G time jump/whatever Shenanigans occur that Damian gets aged up and then I also hope that his costume changes to look a little bit like his Injustice comic looks. Either his pre-Nightwing look or his Injustice 2 Red Nightwing look, I'm not saying he should be Nightwing I just think that the costume kind of works.

DI984K-XUAEyL_q.jpg

D238E211-E4E0-424C-8BE1-AD60B9C14C8F.jpg

----------


## Restingvoice

> First I'd like to say that I honestly hope that when the 5G time jump/whatever Shenanigans occur that Damian gets aged up and then I also hope that his costume changes to look a little bit like his Injustice comic looks. Either his pre-Nightwing look or his Injustice 2 Red Nightwing look, I'm not saying he should be Nightwing I just think that the costume kind of works.
> 
> DI984K-XUAEyL_q.jpg
> 
> D238E211-E4E0-424C-8BE1-AD60B9C14C8F.jpg


I like either his Red Nightwing or Al Ghul Beyond looks.

----------


## Jackalope89

Al Ghul Beyond has its moments, but so does Batman 666 (yeah, I know, Luke Fox). 

Injustice just looks like its trying too hard to be "super edgy!" and all.

----------


## CPSparkles

> First I'd like to say that I honestly hope that when the 5G time jump/whatever Shenanigans occur that Damian gets aged up and then I also hope that his costume changes to look a little bit like his Injustice comic looks. Either his pre-Nightwing look or his Injustice 2 Red Nightwing look, I'm not saying he should be Nightwing I just think that the costume kind of works.
> 
> DI984K-XUAEyL_q.jpg
> 
> D238E211-E4E0-424C-8BE1-AD60B9C14C8F.jpg


I like the Injustice suit and it symbolises so much but it's too Nightwing lite which eats into Nightwing's brand [the bats are so bloated they are cannibalising each other]. The Al Ghul Greens look great and it's a path that's damian's and no other bat fam can step into aside from cass if she decides to become his body guard as she was trained to.

But that would mean he's gone bad. i don't see a batman beyond scenario happening. That's for the end of the comics.

Lord knows what we'll get.

I can't wait to see everyone hit by the real time ageing it's going to be surreal.

----------


## Katana500

I'd like to see Damian leading a good al ghul splinter faction.  The league has broken up before so it wouldn't be too out of the blue.  

Could get a heroic damian with the more unique green Al Ghul future look. So its win win.

 My second choice would be Damian becoming his own man and creating his own identity. He's always been so obsessed with birthright and legacy with both the Al Ghul and Batman mantels. That him realizing that it isn't actually who he wants to be could be a really good story.

----------


## Fergus

> FINALLY someone that notices about it.
> 
> For this I am not visiting CBR now like in the past.. Damian was my reason of my frequents visits to CBR and I added a lot of posts in his appreciations in the past.
> 
> But many people here transformed this in one Supersons gallery and I am not interested in remember Supersons..
> 
> 
> 
> When we losed GLEASON we losed Maya too


To be clear as much as I voice criticisms about the Supersons title, I liked the book and the concept. My kids love the book. Nothing is without flaws. I was merely pointing out the flaws as I saw them.

The supersons should be included in the Damian Wayne Appreciation thread, if this was a Robin thread or a thread about the meaning/importance of Robin then that might be different.

Are they not allowed to use her now that he's moved? I know Tomasi used her but that was while Gleason was still under DC not a marvel exclusive

----------


## Fergus

> I can't wait to see everyone hit by the real time ageing it's going to be surreal.



80+ year old Bruce and it doesn't bode well for character's whose appeal is mainly aesthetics or looking cool/sexy. It's not a good idea. An interesting one but not a good one.

Injustice Nightwing is fine but Damian shouldn't become Nightwing that's Dick's like Katana500 suggests I'd like to see Damian break free from the heavy burden of legacy or change things by changing the LOA or a faction of the LoA

----------


## sifighter

Maya’s still around, she just showed up in the Terrifics during the Bizzaro’s arc with his son Bizarro Boy. She didn’t do much but she showed up. I’ll post the image below, it’s from the issue that just came out, #24

Also with the time jump I don’t think Bruce will be fully aged up to like his 80’s. I expect like his mid to 60, early 70’s. An older man but still one very much willing to get in costume and whoop you when the need arises.

C9BB01E0-87BC-4475-84BA-1732F625A724.jpg

----------


## Blue22

> My second choice would be Damian becoming his own man and creating his own identity. He's always been so obsessed with birthright and legacy with both the Al Ghul and Batman mantels. That him realizing that it isn't actually who he wants to be could be a really good story.


I've been saying that for a while. I'd love to see Damian decide to go down his own path instead of continuing the paths started by someone else. I think this would be especially poignant given how borderline obsessed he used to be with inheriting his father's title (a burden that I'm pretty sure Bruce wouldn't want to pass on to any of his children). 

I think it would be cool seeing him come to some sort of middle ground. A merger of both lives that he's lived. Like, as you said, leading a neutral/heroic version of the League of Assassins. Though...I guess they wouldn't be assassins if they're more on the good side. Not sure how many Mortal Kombat fans there are here but I was picturing something along the lines of how Sub Zero reforms and leads the Lin Kuei.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I've been saying that for a while. I'd love to see Damian decide to go down his own path instead of continuing the paths started by someone else. I think this would be especially poignant given how borderline obsessed he used to be with inheriting his father's title (a burden that I'm pretty sure Bruce wouldn't want to pass on to any of his children). 
> 
> I think it would be cool seeing him come to some sort of middle ground. A merger of both lives that he's lived. Like, as you said, leading a neutral/heroic version of the League of Assassins. Though...I guess they wouldn't be assassins if they're more on the good side. Not sure how many Mortal Kombat fans there are here but I was picturing something along the lines of how Sub Zero reforms and leads the Lin Kuei.


Except... There already is a good league of assassins, known as the All-Caste (Jason Todd's story). They fight inhuman monsters that have been around since the beginning of humanity and prey on humans, and can disguise themselves as such.

----------


## Blue22

> Except... There already is a good league of assassins, known as the All-Caste (Jason Todd's story). They fight inhuman monsters that have been around since the beginning of humanity and prey on humans, and can disguise themselves as such.


Well shit. Guess I need to do some more reading up on Jason stories lol

Though both could exist. Especially if this All-Caste's focus is only on the supernatural.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Well shit. Guess I need to do some more reading up on Jason stories lol
> 
> Though both could exist. Especially if this All-Caste's focus is only on the supernatural.


Its not their ONLY focus, but it is a priority (and the upcoming arc in Red Hood is focused on that).

----------


## Fergus

> Except... There already is a good league of assassins, known as the All-Caste (Jason Todd's story). They fight inhuman monsters that have been around since the beginning of humanity and prey on humans, and can disguise themselves as such.


The All caste isn't linked to Ra's or the LOA. It's linked toDucra.

We are talking about the LOA as it's known being turned by for good not a group that has been good forever and is less known.

Not to mention that Damian turning the LOA to become a force for good is not at all like anything Jason&All Caste related nor does it have the same relevance or significance.

It's completely different. Imagine what a good LOA could do/be like in the DcU especially since the All Caste aren't really used by anyone other than Lobdell so they are only a thing in the DCU in Jason's book.

With the Loa it affects the DCu

----------


## Fergus

> Well shit. Guess I need to do some more reading up on Jason stories lol
> 
> Though both could exist. Especially if this All-Caste's focus is only on the supernatural.


They could both exist since they are not alike. It's like saying  Batman can't exist because there's Plastic Man. All costumed heroes aren't the same just like all groups who use martial arts aren't the same

----------


## Jackalope89

> The All caste isn't linked to Ra's or the LOA. It's linked toDucra.
> 
> We are talking about the LOA as it's known being turned by for good not a group that has been good forever and is less known.


Just saying that there already is a group of assassins that are good guys. And it was Talia that introduced Jason to Ducra, so there is that connection.

----------


## Fergus

> Just saying that there already is a group of assassins that are good guys. And it was Talia that introduced Jason to Ducra, so there is that connection.


Talia knowing them isn't a connection.

----------


## Digifiend

> Maya’s still around, she just showed up in the Terrifics during the Bizzaro’s arc with his son Bizarro Boy. She didn’t do much but she showed up. I’ll post the image below, it’s from the issue that just came out, #24
> 
> C9BB01E0-87BC-4475-84BA-1732F625A724.jpg


Good to see SOMEBODY remembers that Nobody and Beacon exist!

And in other news, the Super Sons are back... but the hashtags labelled this as Young Justice when it's OBVIOUSLY the Rebirth Teen Titans...

----------


## adrikito

> Maya’s still around, she just showed up in the Terrifics during the Bizzaro’s arc with his son Bizarro Boy. She didn’t do much but she showed up. I’ll post the image below, it’s from the issue that just came out, #24
> 
> C9BB01E0-87BC-4475-84BA-1732F625A724.jpg


Maya... Even if this is only one scene I am surprised to see her.

Who is the Terrifics writer?

----------


## sifighter

> Maya... Even if this is only one scene I am surprised to see her.
> 
> Who is the Terrifics writer?


Gene Leun Yang, he was the guy who wrote the Rebirth New Super-man series and the recent Superman smashes the klan comic.

----------


## dietrich

https://twitter.com/gothamtwinks


From the upcoming Robin Special

----------


## dietrich

> Its not their ONLY focus, but it is a priority (and the upcoming arc in Red Hood is focused on that).


Nice to hear the All Caste are back. I thought their potential had barely been scratched so glad to see that they haven't just been discarded.
Looks like I'll have to start pulling RHATO again.

----------


## dietrich

It's great to see not just Maya but Kathy and bizjon being used.

----------


## dietrich

https://twitter.com/airair_ii




https://twitter.com/happytempo_

----------


## Digifiend

The Superman and Lois show on the CW will have a character called Jordan Kent. Jon's younger brother. Their actors are 19 and 15, and Jon and Damian in the comics are 17 and 13, so the age gap would match. Is Jordan supposed to be Damian, with his parentage changed?
https://www.newsarama.com/48913-cw-s...ns-report.html

----------


## dietrich

> The Superman and Lois show on the CW will have a character called Jordan Kent. Jon's younger brother. Their actors are 19 and 15, and Jon and Damian in the comics are 17 and 13, so the age gap would match. Is Jordan supposed to be Damian, with his parentage changed?
> https://www.newsarama.com/48913-cw-s...ns-report.html


I think it's more likely Chris Kent.

----------


## Rac7d*

> I think it's more likely Chris Kent.


It probably is not

----------


## Fergus

> The Superman and Lois show on the CW will have a character called Jordan Kent. Jon's younger brother. Their actors are 19 and 15, and Jon and Damian in the comics are 17 and 13, so the age gap would match. Is Jordan supposed to be Damian, with his parentage changed?
> https://www.newsarama.com/48913-cw-s...ns-report.html


So Ian Wayne from the Zoom Supersons?

A few months ago we had a discussion here when the casting call went out and social media jumped to the conclusion that it was Damian.

The amount of vitriol that sprang up [mostly from blog's that weren't Damian focused] was unreal. Suddenly correct representation was the most important thing about the character.

The site that had the casting call requirements was spammed with so much hate. Ian Wayne didn't get much negativity about the white wash. Not online or anywhere so I was surprised that ad got that much hate. DC nation online or the threads promoting the series etc

CW viewers must be very strict on accurate characterisation.

I doubt it's Damian. I hope it's not. This is a Superman show so it should be a character from his franchise. Damian can if he must can be introduced in Batwoman or Titans [it has Robins] I don't see the need to have a bat character in a show about Superman and his family.

----------


## Fergus

> It probably is not


It makes more sense. I want a Supersons animated show not on CW. Animation suits that brand better.

----------


## Rac7d*

> It makes more sense. I want a Supersons animated show not on CW. Animation suits that brand better.


On Dcuniverse would be great

----------


## Jackalope89

> So Ian Wayne from the Zoom Supersons?
> 
> A few months ago we had a discussion here when the casting call went out and social media jumped to the conclusion that it was Damian.
> 
> The amount of vitriol that sprang up [mostly from blog's that weren't Damian focused] was unreal. Suddenly correct representation was the most important thing about the character.
> 
> The site that had the casting call requirements was spammed with so much hate. Ian Wayne didn't get much negativity about the white wash. Not online or anywhere so I was surprised that ad got that much hate. DC nation online or the threads promoting the series etc
> 
> CW viewers must be very strict on accurate characterisation.
> ...


Just to point out; when the first images were made available of "Ian Wayne", I did voice my "negativity" (to say the least). And have held this position ever since.

----------


## Ansa

Okay, apparently I messed up who is supposed to be Tim and who is Jason. But in my defense, the artist didn't do the best job when it comes to making the boys look distinct.

So far there's nothing really suprising about any of this, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. It just shows that the writers know the characters fairly well and write them accordingly.

Damian feels guilty and apparently Bruce's words make it kinda worse.

Tim fears Bruce might fall back into how he was after Jason's death. Not sure why Tim was the happiest to return to Gotham though.

Jason is at the public event in disguise because despite everything he still loved Alfred.

Ric had a feeling he should be there, but doesn't quite know why.

Bruce is unable to take care of himself and while his words about Alfred are moving he is unable to find the right words to keep the family from falling apart. According to Barbara he wouldn't be open for suggestions.

----------


## Ansa

The only thing that really bothers me is that DC is trying to pretend that Alfred's death is the catalyst for the family falling apart even though we didn't see the family as a unit for quite some time even when Alfred was alive. But I already expected that to be honest. It's another case of "what actually happened vs what the narrative tries to convince us of what happened"

----------


## king81992

> The only thing that really bothers me is that DC is trying to pretend that Alfred's death is the catalyst for the family falling apart even though we didn't see the family as a unit for quite some time even when Alfred was alive. But I already expected that to be honest. It's another case of "what actually happened vs what the narrative tries to convince us of what happened"


The Bat Family fell apart years ago and has been a mess of varying degrees of toxicity , writers are just realizing it now.

----------


## Ansa

> The Bat Family fell apart years ago and has been a mess of varying degrees of toxicity f, writers are just realizing it now.


They have been a mess for years, but we still got some books where at least some of them worked together. It wasn't always a positive relationship, but at least there were some interactions.

Damian hasn't been seen consistently working at his father's side pretty much since Tomasi's Batman and Robin run ended, but their official break came after No Justice in May 2018. Even though writers can't really decide if Damian still comes to help Bruce with emergencies. It's a bit weird because Teen Titans still acts like they aren't talking with each other, but Damian was with Bruce in City of Bane, Justice League, Detective Comics and Event Leviathan.

Jason broke away after RHatO #25, also summer 2018.
Same for Dick after he got shot in the head in Batman #55 and Bruce scared him away, as we saw in the Nightwing Annual.
Tim went off to do his own thing after Tynion's Detective Comics run ended. Stephanie came with him. Duke and Cassandra were put under the leadership of Black Lightning in Outsiders because Bruce thought Jefferson Pierce would be a better help to them than Bruce could be.
Barbara was always more idependent than some of the others.

All in all I would say the batfamily broke apart in the summer of 2018. Since then they mostly stopped interacting and only appear for glorified group shots.

----------


## Katana500

> The Bat Family fell apart years ago and has been a mess of varying degrees of toxicity f, writers are just realizing it now.


They fall apart - but at the end of the day they all come back together again eventually.

I suspect the Batfamily will rally by the end of Pennyworth RIP and if not there I reckon it will happen in Joker War.

----------


## Ansa

> They fall apart - but at the end of the day they all come back together again eventually.
> 
> I suspect the Batfamily will rally by the end of Pennyworth RIP and if not there I reckon it will happen in Joker War.


Usually I would suspect the same, but the rumor that Bruce will get replaced again for 5G and Bruce confronting and probably firing Damian in April makes me wonder if they want to break them even more to make it plausible why Bruce retires from the mantle.

----------


## Katana500

> Usually I would suspect the same, but the rumor that Bruce will get replaced again for 5G and Bruce confronting and probably firing Damian in April make me wonder if they want to break them even more to make it plausible why Bruce retires from the mantle.


I think Joker War will see Bruce reach breaking point - probably because his Family's identities have all been revealed and they are all under severe threat. Joker War will probably end with Bruce retiring from the mantle and giving up.  

Rather than the Batfamily all fracturing I think i'd prefer to see them leave with Bruce - opening up the Batman role to Luke.  Families have ups and downs but im not sure I like the idea of them all going their own way and abandoning Bruce on his own again. Seems for the last few years the Batfamily just gets more and more unstable - what better way to end Bruce's Rebirth story before 5g  with him rallying all the people he loves most - Selina, Damian, Dick, Barbara, Jason etc and then kicking jokers arse!


If Bruce is mentoring Luke in 5g - I think itd be a whole lot more interesting if he actually had his own life outside the Batman world for once rather than the usual estranged lonely work obsessed bruce who pushes everyone he cares about away like we have seen a dozen times.

----------


## Ansa

> I think Joker War will see Bruce reach breaking point - probably because his Family's identities have all been revealed and they are all under severe threat. Joker War will probably end with Bruce retiring from the mantle and giving up.  
> 
> Rather than the Batfamily all fracturing I think i'd prefer to see them leave with Bruce - opening up the Batman role to Luke.  Families have ups and downs but im not sure I like the idea of them all going their own way and abandoning Bruce on his own again. Seems for the last few years the Batfamily just gets more and more unstable - what better way to end Bruce's Rebirth story before 5g  with him rallying all the people he loves most - Selina, Damian, Dick, Barbara, Jason etc and then kicking jokers arse!
> 
> 
> If Bruce is mentoring Luke in 5g - I think itd be a whole lot more interesting if he actually had his own life outside the Batman world for once rather than the usual estranged lonely work obsessed bruce who pushes everyone he cares about away like we have seen a dozen times.


Don't get me wrong, I'm tired of the bat-family being apart. We've seen this enough over the last decade.
If DC was lead by other people I would think that it was very much possible what you wrote could be the case and I'm not even saying it's impossible now. But Rebirth is officially over and the ones in charge are the same that pushed for New 52.
Which means they love edgy drama. They are also the same people who the minute Geoff Johns was gone started to destroy a lot of the things people liked about Rebirth.
So I don't have much hope left that they will let Bruce and the family go without doing even more harm to them.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I think Joker War will see Bruce reach breaking point - probably because his Family's identities have all been revealed and they are all under severe threat. Joker War will probably end with Bruce retiring from the mantle and giving up.  
> 
> *Rather than the Batfamily all fracturing I think i'd prefer to see them leave with Bruce - opening up the Batman role to Luke.  Families have ups and downs but im not sure I like the idea of them all going their own way and abandoning Bruce on his own again. Seems for the last few years the Batfamily just gets more and more unstable - what better way to end Bruce's Rebirth story before 5g  with him rallying all the people he loves most - Selina, Damian, Dick, Barbara, Jason etc and then kicking jokers arse!
> *
> 
> If Bruce is mentoring Luke in 5g - I think itd be a whole lot more interesting if he actually had his own life outside the Batman world for once rather than the usual estranged lonely work obsessed bruce who pushes everyone he cares about away like we have seen a dozen times.


Bruce would need to apologize to most of them, admit he was wrong, and sincerely at that. Which is something he simply doesn't do, and something that editorial/DC as a whole doesn't really make him do. Otherwise, it would feel VERY unearned for him to suddenly have everyone back.

----------


## Ansa

> Bruce would need to apologize to most of them, admit he was wrong, and sincerely at that. Which is something he simply doesn't do, and something that editorial/DC as a whole doesn't really make him do. Otherwise, it would feel VERY unearned for him to suddenly have everyone back.


Yeah, that's the other problem. I know some fans just want to forget all the shit Bruce has done to them, be it physical abuse by beating them or emotional abuse by neglecting them or using them as pawns in his plans, but I won't stop seeing Bruce as a failure unless he sincerely apologizes and makes an effort to change. I don't want everyone to forgive him that quickly. Bruce is let off the hook by other characters way too easy in many cases.

----------


## Katana500

I genuinely don't know why writers enjoy writing Bruce as such an arse half the time. I really like Bruce but sometimes he is so unlikeable! I like Batman when he is a bit more lighthearted - doesnt need to be cracking Jokes 24/7 but atleast not being dickish to his family or the league for no justifyable reason whatsoever.

----------


## adrikito

PROBLEMS.. Look what the Jokes is watching.(Batman 89)

Joker-and-Punchline-in-Batman-89.jpg

----------


## Digifiend

Wanna bet he's known the Bat family's identities ever since he outed Dick? I know Dick's secret identity got put back in the bottle, but if Joker had already used that info to deduce Bruce's identity, he'd have been able to relearn it easily, and everyone else's too.

Except for Barbara, who he really should've already known about since the beginning of New 52, since Killing Joke remained canon. He shot Barbara, Batgirl disappears. She gets the use of her legs back - which being an experimental surgery is almost certainly public knowledge - and at roughly the same time, Batgirl's back. Doesn't take a genius to work out they're one and the same.

----------


## CPSparkles

> PROBLEMS.. Look what the Jokes is watching.(Batman 89)
> 
> Joker-and-Punchline-in-Batman-89.jpg


 Why does Jpker need a board with their ids ? he's known this for years

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/langbuliang




https://twitter.com/PotatoGrayson

----------


## CPSparkles

I can't muster any enthusiasm for comics these days especially Batfamily ones. I just started the SnagglePuss Chronicles and it's incredible. I heard Damian makes an Appearance later but that's not why I started it

I've stopped pulling any of the main comics like TT or Nightwing. I plan to pick up the Robin Special but I'm taking a break from the main comics.

Ric and every other shitty story line has just ruin ed them for me.

After seeing Bop last night I'm done.

----------


## AmiMizuno

This really makes me wonder if a long falling out needs to happen.  For the most part fans seem to not main Nightwing being the link for the others. Just not having Batman. The whole Batfam has a large falling out. With Damian is already had a falling out with Bruce . So does it matter? Maybe he has a falling out with Dick?

----------


## Restingvoice

> Why does Joker need a board with their ids? he's known this for years


if I wanna be kinda canon, he lost that knowledge during his amnesia in Superheavy, and while Batman kept him in the Batcave in Metal and Duke mentioned at least Dick in his presence, he has to retrace most of them. 

Other than that, this is the other Joker.

----------


## Ansa

> This really makes me wonder if a long falling out needs to happen.  For the most part fans seem to not main Nightwing being the link for the others. Just not having Batman. The whole Batfam has a large falling out. With Damian is already had a falling out with Bruce . So does it matter? Maybe he has a falling out with Dick?


We are pretty sure Bruce and Damian are going to have a falling out in April because of the solicitation for the next TT annual.
Bruce is probably going to be extremely pissed because of what Damian has done (even though Rebirth Batman really isn't that much better; secret prisons, lying to team mates and family, using extreme violence, realizing that Arkham doesn't work and you need more restrictive prisons...) and if you look at how Bruce has handled one of the boys "breaking his code" or simply refusing to do what he wants in the last few years it's not unreasonable to believe that Bruce is either going to yell at him or punch him, probably both.
I don't have enough faith in the writers to realize that Bruce would be a massive hypocrite if he disowns Damian for this.

A falling out with Dick is impossible right now, because Dick is still Ric. I think we have to wait till summer for him to fully return as Nightwing.

----------


## Ansa

> I can't muster any enthusiasm for comics these days especially Batfamily ones. I just started the SnagglePuss Chronicles and it's incredible. I heard Damian makes an Appearance later but that's not why I started it
> 
> I've stopped pulling any of the main comics like TT or Nightwing. I plan to pick up the Robin Special but I'm taking a break from the main comics.
> 
> Ric and every other shitty story line has just ruin ed them for me.
> 
> After seeing Bop last night I'm done.


Can't say I'm enthusiastic either. Right now I'm not even sure if I want to stick around long enough to see if Bruce really does fire Damian or if Glass gives us something less predictable.

----------


## Digifiend

> if I wanna be kinda canon, he lost that knowledge during his amnesia in Superheavy, and while Batman kept him in the Batcave in Metal and Duke mentioned at least Dick in his presence, he has to retrace most of them. 
> 
> Other than that, this is the other Joker.


Good point, there was supposed to be three of him. Though one has just turned up dead.

----------


## CPSparkles

> This really makes me wonder if a long falling out needs to happen.  For the most part fans seem to not main Nightwing being the link for the others. Just not having Batman. The whole Batfam has a large falling out. With Damian is already had a falling out with Bruce . So does it matter? Maybe he has a falling out with Dick?


I don't want Damian falling out with Dick. The absence of Dick in his life so far has been devastating. Bruce is his father only by Blood. Dick is his real father. The poor kid is spiralling and there's only so long before he cracks.

I want Damian distanced from the Batfamily in general aside from Dick. Bruce is a bad Dad
Listening to jason got him into the shit he's currently is [how come everyone keeps ignoring that? I hope Bruce has another talk with him for his mentoring ]

Duke I'd actually like to see them relate more.
Cass assaulted when he asked her to leave his room so i don't see them hanging out 

Tim's away though they never been pally.

I want Damian to distance himself from all except for Dick and Duke but that's unlikely to happen

----------


## CPSparkles

> Can't say I'm enthusiastic either. Right now I'm not even sure if I want to stick around long enough to see if Bruce really does fire Damian or if Glass gives us something less predictable.


Glass wrote Damian as a suicide bomber my expectations aren't high

Bruce has hit Dick, Jasonm, Tim I guess it's Damian's turn to have the coded communication

----------


## Blue22

> We are pretty sure Bruce and Damian are going to have a falling out in April because of the solicitation for the next TT annual.


Which is all kinds of dumb considering their initial falling out at the start of Rebirth was barely given any attention (whenever writers even remembered it was a thing) and never really resolved. I'm so tired of this "Bruce is a bad dad...unless he's being Selina's daddy" shit. Especially since, as you mentioned, he has zero room to judge Damian for anything that's happened in this current Teen Titans run. Like father like son, after all.




> This really makes me wonder if a long falling out needs to happen.  For the most part fans seem to not main Nightwing being the link for the others. Just not having Batman. The whole Batfam has a large falling out. With Damian is already had a falling out with Bruce . So does it matter? Maybe he has a falling out with Dick?


God, I hope not. With Bruce the way he is, Alfred dead, the family in disarray, Jon kinda out of the picture, and the Teen Titans barely counting as friends, Damian needs Dick almost as much as he did when they first started working together. The kid needs a Dad and a friend. And Dick's kinda been both of those things to him better than his actual Dad and friends have. When Dick is eventually brought back, one of the first things I wanna see is him and Damian working together like old times. Just the two of them.

----------


## Ansa

> Which is all kinds of dumb considering their initial falling out at the start of Rebirth was barely given any attention (whenever writers even remembered it was a thing) and never really resolved. I'm so tired of this "Bruce is a bad dad...unless he's being Selina's daddy" shit. Especially since, as you mentioned, he has zero room to judge Damian for anything that's happened in this current Teen Titans run. Like father like son, after all.


"But he's going to be a great dad to Helena!!!♡♡♡" Yeah, great, I don't give a f*ck. I still don't understand how people can look at Rebirth Bruce and want him to have another kid.

The sad thing is: I think Bruce seeing what Damian has done, getting angry, but then realizing that he is actually doing almost the same shit that he wanted to punish Damian for and coming to the conclusion that they both need to be better again (a conclusion Damian already came to last issue) could be interesting. But knowing DC I just don't believe we're going to get that.

And I'm tired of falling outs. I think DC forgot that in order for people to care about something falling apart you must build something good first. Batman and Robin 2011 is one of my favourite books, but it ended in 2015 and we have 2020. Senselessly burning everything is just making me tired at this point.

----------


## Blue22

> "But he's going to be a great dad to Helena!!!♡♡♡" Yeah, great, I don't give a f*ck. I still don't understand how people can look at Rebirth Bruce and want him to have another kid.


Because he's got his head planted so firmly up Selina's ass that there's no way he'll mistreat something that he created with her lol




> The sad thing is: I think Bruce seeing what Damian has done, getting angry, but then realizing that he is actually doing almost the same shit that he wanted to punish Damian for and coming to the conclusion that they both need to be better again (a conclusion Damian already came to last issue) could be interesting.


Which would honestly be a great start to another Batman and Robin book. Get these two back together and acting the way they did at the end of Tomasi's run. Which is more than Bruce deserves right now.

----------


## Ansa

> Which would honestly be a great start to another Batman and Robin book. Get these two back together and acting the way they did at the end of Tomasi's run. Which is more than Bruce deserves right now.


I seriously saw someone commenting that "the bat-family abandoned Bruce and deserves everything that's coming to them" and had to keep myself from smashing my head against a wall.
Like...Bruce is an adult and their leader, it's his responsibility to hold them together? That's what a good leader does?? And Bruce either pushed them away or did nothing when they left and most of them still came in Justice League and in City of Bane when he called despite all that??? What are you even talking about????

----------


## Jackalope89

> I don't want Damian falling out with Dick. The absence of Dick in his life so far has been devastating. Bruce is his father only by Blood. Dick is his real father. The poor kid is spiralling and there's only so long before he cracks.
> 
> I want Damian distanced from the Batfamily in general aside from Dick. Bruce is a bad Dad
> *Listening to jason got him into the shit he's currently is [how come everyone keeps ignoring that? I hope Bruce has another talk with him for his mentoring ]
> *
> Duke I'd actually like to see them relate more.
> Cass assaulted when he asked her to leave his room so i don't see them hanging out 
> 
> Tim's away though they never been pally.
> ...


No. It was Damian himself distancing, well, himself from Bruce after seeing how ineffective his and the older heroes' methods had become. He teamed up with Jason because both believed that the particularly bad criminals weren't being punished enough. It was a partnership. Jason would send messages of information to Damian, whom in turn, would go in and take down the baddies. But when presented with the possibility of a mole, Damian never hesitated in blaming Jason. And then promptly attacking him later on.

So trying to pin everything on Jason doesn't fly. Damian needs to take responsibility for his own actions, not have them slapped onto someone else.

Besides which, Jason and Bruce aren't even really on speaking terms at the moment, with Jason and the Outlaws relocating to New York. So mister "I'll beat my sons senseless to teach them a lesson/send a message" isn't going to get to "talk" with Jason.

----------


## Katana500

I'd really like to see a Barbara and Damian team up issue. They have been Batgirl and Robin at the same time for so long but I can't recall them ever teaming up.

I kinda wonder what the dynamic would be like. All the Robins seem to respect Barbara alot so I think Damian would too. Though he probably wouldn't say it out loud.

Duke and Damian would be awesome aswell! The little we saw of them together was interesting.

----------


## Blue22

At this point, I'm about ready for the Batfam to reforge itself without Bruce. And I want it to work. Like REALLY work. Under Dick's leadership. Maybe seeing them all acting like a fully functional, maybe even happy, unit without him around would be the wake-up call Bruce needs to realize that he was the problem. An extra kick in the gut would be if they get Jason to cooperate too.

I love Batman. His have been some of my favorite stories since I've started reading comics. But he's been REALLY shitty to everyone but his (kinda) wife lately. And that's saying something considering how shitty's he's been to everyone in the past. Like...the whole family has kinda fallen apart and it's all kinda been his fault. I hope to God Bruce at least does something to make Damian feel less responsible for Alfred's death. You know...since he only went into the city on Bruce's orders!

----------


## Ansa

> At this point, I'm about ready for the Batfam to reforge itself without Bruce. And I want it to work. Like REALLY work. Under Dick's leadership. Maybe seeing them all acting like a fully functional, maybe even happy, unit without him around would be the wake-up call Bruce needs to realize that he was the problem. An extra kick in the gut would be if they get Jason to cooperate too.
> 
> I love Batman. His have been some of my favorite stories since I've started reading comics. But he's been REALLY shitty to everyone but his (kinda) wife lately. And that's saying something considering how shitty's he's been to everyone in the past. Like...the whole family has kinda fallen apart and it's all kinda been his fault. I hope to God Bruce at least does something to make Damian feel less responsible for Alfred's death. You know...since he only went into the city on Bruce's orders!


But for that to happen DC would have to do more than just slightly drag Batman for his terrible choices for one page. And they don't like that.

I got reminded of this fact when I read Batman and Superman because I heard the first arc was over and yes, the infected Gordon and Wonder Woman did point out their dishonesty, but overall Bruce keeping the imprisonment of the Batman Who Laughs under the Hall of Justice a secret had no real consequences for Bruce at all. We know Wonder Woman and the rest of the League are not going to stop working with him or are suddenly going to seriously question his plans moving forward.
Instead the book tries to convince us that demolishing the batcave of TBWL under crime alley and making a database about all the villains somehow is enough for Bruce and Clark to make amends.
1) Shouldn't you have destroyed that place anyway? 2) Doesn't the Justice League already have a database for exactly that purpose? And the Justice League is huge after Snyder recruited almost the entire dc universe so even saying it's going to be for every hero now doesn't change much.
Overall I was disappointed by that "resolution"

I'm glad Pennyworth RIP made it explicit that Damian was the one who watched Alfred die (I know for a fact that a lot of people had already forgotten that part). The textbox for Damian says that while Bruce's speech is moving it also makes Damian feel as if every word puts more weight on his shoulders. So the potential for a bit about Damian feeling guilty (with Bruce unintentionally making it worse) and Bruce seeing that and trying to make him feel better is there.

----------


## CPSparkles



----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/langbuliang

----------


## CPSparkles

> But for that to happen DC would have to do more than just slightly drag Batman for his terrible choices for one page. And they don't like that.
> 
> I got reminded of this fact when I read Batman and Superman because I heard the first arc was over and yes, the infected Gordon and Wonder Woman did point out their dishonesty, but overall Bruce keeping the imprisonment of the Batman Who Laughs under the Hall of Justice a secret had no real consequences for Bruce at all. We know Wonder Woman and the rest of the League are not going to stop working with him or are suddenly going to seriously question his plans moving forward.
> Instead the book tries to convince us that demolishing the batcave of TBWL under crime alley and making a database about all the villains somehow is enough for Bruce and Clark to make amends.
> 1) Shouldn't you have destroyed that place anyway? 2) Doesn't the Justice League already have a database for exactly that purpose? And the Justice League is huge after Snyder recruited almost the entire dc universe so even saying it's going to be for every hero now doesn't change much.
> Overall I was disappointed by that "resolution"
> 
> I'm glad Pennyworth RIP made it explicit that Damian was the one who watched Alfred die (I know for a fact that a lot of people had already forgotten that part). The textbox for Damian says that while Bruce's speech is moving it also makes Damian feel as if every word puts more weight on his shoulders. So the potential for a bit about Damian feeling guilty (with Bruce unintentionally making it worse) and Bruce seeing that and trying to make him feel better is there.


Is the Alfred special worth getting?

----------


## CPSparkles

Another Supersons Fanzine sfw but there might be a wait if for the english version



Due for release on 4/12!

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/popposa_64





https://twitter.com/popposa_64





https://twitter.com/marcio_takara

----------


## Ansa

> Is the Alfred special worth getting?


I haven't read the whole thing yet, I just saw the preview. But from what I saw I would say it handles Alfred's death and the complicated family situation a lot better than Tom King's "The boys came over. We had dinner. They're doing well." which ignored what's been going on in the bat-family for the past two years. Just had to squeeze in more of Bruce sitting in a bar watching sports I guess.

If you want to know how each of them is affected by Alfred's death or you want to know if Bruce can finally get off his ass and use his talent for words not just for eulogies but to fix his family I would say it's worth checking out.

Edit: It's just good to see that, at least in this preview, the narrative doesn't take Bruce's side as it so often does. It makes it clear that the family is disappointed that it needed the opening of a hospital for Bruce to get them in one place. It shows us that Damian isn't fine and that Bruce so far hasn't done anything to help him with his guilt. Barbara thinks that Bruce is doing all of this the wrong way, but knows Bruce wouldn't listen. It needed Alfred writing it in his testament as a last wish to force Bruce to take one night off and spend some time with the core family.
I hope the book really tackles some of those issues.

----------


## Ansa

It's probably the closest thing to bat-family content we'll get until the summer crossover event Tynion teased and Tomasi is usally good with emotional family stuff, so I don't expect this to be bad. I just don't know if it's going to be great or satisfying.

----------


## CPSparkles

> I haven't read the whole thing yet, I just saw the preview. But from what I saw I would say it handles Alfred's death and the complicated family situation a lot better than Tom King's "The boys came over. We had dinner. They're doing well." which ignored what's been going on in the bat-family for the past two years. Just had to squeeze in more of Bruce sitting in a bar watching sports I guess.
> 
> If you want to know how each of them is affected by Alfred's death or you want to know if Bruce can finally get off his ass and use his talent for words not just for eulogies but to fix his family I would say it's worth checking out.


Oh right It's not out yet. I thought it was already out. I've not been keeping up with release dates you see.

Is it out this week?
I know batman Tales Once upon a crime with Damian is out this week but wasn't sure what other Damian content is out.

----------


## Ansa

> Oh right It's not out yet. I thought it was already out. I've not been keeping up with release dates you see.
> 
> Is it out this week?
> I know batman Tales Once upon a crime with Damian is out this week but wasn't sure what other Damian content is out.


It comes out this week. Damian is also on the cover of Superman: Heroes, but that's Bendis which means I'm not touching it.

Edit: Oh and Batman vs Ra's Al Ghul #4 might have Damian in it, but that book is just weird and has no place in continuity.

----------


## CPSparkles

> It comes out this week. Damian is also on the cover of Superman: Heroes, but that's Bendis which means I'm not touching it.
> 
> Edit: Oh and Batman vs Ra's Al Ghul #4 might have Damian in it, but that book is just weird and has no place in continuity.


That batman v Ra's is bonkers and the art is nightmare inducing.

Neal Adams has really gone off the rails. i've followed that and i don't know what's going on

----------


## CPSparkles

> No. It was Damian himself distancing, well, himself from Bruce after seeing how ineffective his and the older heroes' methods had become. He teamed up with Jason because both believed that the particularly bad criminals weren't being punished enough. It was a partnership. Jason would send messages of information to Damian, whom in turn, would go in and take down the baddies. But when presented with the possibility of a mole, Damian never hesitated in blaming Jason. And then promptly attacking him later on.
> 
> So trying to pin everything on Jason doesn't fly. Damian needs to take responsibility for his own actions, not have them slapped onto someone else.
> 
> Besides which, Jason and Bruce aren't even really on speaking terms at the moment, with Jason and the Outlaws relocating to New York. So mister "I'll beat my sons senseless to teach them a lesson/send a message" isn't going to get to "talk" with Jason.


We saw Jason inquiring how the set of the jail went.
We saw Jason telling him how to steal money and cover his tracks
and most importantly we saw Jason say that he was the one who reached out to Damian and Glass told us that Damian had a new mentor.

Everything points to Jason. {Did you forget those pages?}

Glass by not showing us how Damian decided on his new path put everything on Jason. Damian last we saw was just disillusioned but this isn't the 1st time Damian has been disillusioned.

I'm pretty sure Bruce isn't rooted to Gotham. The point is that everyone seems to be forgetting the mentor who reached out to Damian offering help that wasn't asked for and who we saw giving him bad advice and the conversation shows that jason had a hand if not full responsibility for what damian was doing.

I hope Glass and co address all involved and show us how and why Damian would suddenly listen to a Robin he views as a failure. I get that Dick was gone but even if the whole world was gone Damian wouldn't accept Jason's offer of mentorship. Not in a million years





Everybody should take responsibility.

Thank goodness Glass is off this. damian in canon has his own money so no need to steal.
Damian would never take advice from Jason. Those two thing's which this tale hinges in are 100% occ and thongs that Damian would never need to stoop to.

The stealing was Damian so that was an error. Jason like a responsible adult to a 13yr old of course gives the right reply.

----------


## Fergus

> We saw Jason inquiring how the set of the jail went.
> We saw Jason telling him how to steal money and cover his tracks
> and most importantly we saw Jason say that he was the one who reached out to Damian and Glass told us that Damian had a new mentor.
> 
> Everything points to Jason. {Did you forget those pages?}
> 
> Glass by not showing us how Damian decided on his new path put everything on Jason. Damian last we saw was just disillusioned but this isn't the 1st time Damian has been disillusioned.
> 
> I'm pretty sure Bruce isn't rooted to Gotham. The point is that everyone seems to be forgetting the mentor who reached out to Damian offering help that wasn't asked for and who we saw giving him bad advice and the conversation shows that jason had a hand if not full responsibility for what damian was doing.
> ...


I mean no one expected anything less. There's a reason why once Dick is compromised everything falls apart.
Dick is the only adult in the family and the only dependable one in the family. 

Unlikely that Jason is going to be called on for his part in this. he was picked for the part for a reason. This isn't out of character for him so Bruce wouldn't expect anything less from him. There's no story there. If Dick had been the one giving this bad advice then we might get more because it's not usual for Dick to fuck up in this manner so there might be some entertaining story in it.

Damian needs to take responsibility and he will. Jason it's just another story cementing him as lesser than the golden boy and Robin that failed. I mean this is a story about Robin losing his way and who is his mentor? The original failure.

----------


## CPSparkles

> I mean no one expected anything less. There's a reason why once Dick is compromised everything falls apart.
> Dick is the only adult in the family and the only dependable one in the family. 
> 
> Unlikely that Jason is going to be called on for his part in this. he was picked for the part for a reason. This isn't out of character for him so Bruce wouldn't expect anything less from him. There's no story there. If Dick had been the one giving this bad advice then we might get more because it's not usual for Dick to fuck up in this manner so there might be some entertaining story in it.
> 
> Damian needs to take responsibility and he will. Jason it's just another story cementing him as lesser than the golden boy and Robin that failed. I mean this is a story about Robin losing his way and who is his mentor? The original failure.


I'm just expecting Damian's part to be explored and anyone one else who played a part in this to be ignored since they were just lamps to get the story here but it would have been great if everything was addressed. Plus it's always worth it as double standards set in to remind everyone of the full story and Jason and Bruce's role in this.

If it's fair to call out Bruce for his short comings as a father in this then it's fair to call out a grown man like Jason for his short comings as a mentor and an irresponsible adult. Everyone seems to have forgotten that he had a hand in this.

Yep. It's not lost on me that Jason wasn't necessary here so the only reason does seem to be to drag the character.

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/OtterTheAuthor

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/winteamelon





https://twitter.com/DESAWORKS

----------


## CPSparkles

The Greatest




Back when rebirth was still so fun and positive

----------


## Blue22

You know...part of me wonders if Damian would have been better off staying Dick's partner even after Bruce came back.

----------


## Zaresh

> You know...part of me wonders if Damian would have been better off staying Dick's partner even after Bruce came back.


He would. Dick's is the right kind of complementary personality, not Bruce's. Evem Jason's is better. But Dick is the right one, much like Jon was good. In my opinion, at least. It's the kind of personality that makes Damian grow and show how much he has work and grown; and it works better carrying any kind of story, from the most ligh hearted to the darkest and heaviest.

But, it's just my opinion.

----------


## Ansa

> You know...part of me wonders if Damian would have been better off staying Dick's partner even after Bruce came back.


I think the issues with Bruce wouldn't be so bad if DC didn't decide that Batman should be an egotistical asshole.

I think Damian could have learned a lot from a Batman that was closer to BTAS and not to Punisher.

----------


## Frontier

> You know...part of me wonders if Damian would have been better off staying Dick's partner even after Bruce came back.


They were the best team, but I like Bruce and Damian together when writers actually bother to write them together.

But I'm also an old fogey who likes seeing Batman and Robin together.

----------


## Ansa

> They were the best team, but I like Bruce and Damian together when writers actually bother to write them together.
> 
> But I'm also an old fogey who likes seeing Batman and Robin together.


I feel the same. I enjoyed Batman and Robin 2011, the Arkham Knight Arc and Detective Comics #1017. But that's also because I like how Tomasi and Taylor write Bruce.

----------


## dietrich

I would really like to know what percentage of Batman fans like the loner broody stuff and how many like Batdad. I get that the higher ups might be tone deaf [Tomasi was told that fans don't want family they want action] but surely there must be a way of balancing the needs of both sides.

I enjoy Dick and Damian and Bruce and Damian for different reasons.
I'm a sucker for Brucedad with all his kids so it's too bad Dc doesn't like that side of heroes.

----------


## Ansa

If it was just DC wanting Bruce on solo-adventures that would be fine by me. I wouldn't buy it because I don't care that much about Bruce/Batman doing stuff all on his own, but I know a lot of people love it. Just say that Robin, Batgirl, Nightwing etc. are busy if you need to explain why none of them are helping him with a difficult situation and leave it at that.

What I don't get is why DC feels the need to go out of their way to write him as a dick to his family when they clearly love to make posts with panels from older runs where Bruce hugs one of the kids for father's day or similar occasions.

----------


## Blue22

> I would really like to know what percentage of Batman fans like the loner broody stuff and how many like Batdad. I get that the higher ups might be tone deaf [Tomasi was told that fans don't want family they want action] but surely there must be a way of balancing the needs of both sides.


I prefer a nice balance but if I had to choose between the two, it'd be Batdad. Bruce can be a REALLY good father and mentor to his family when he wants to...but how often does that happen anymore?

I understand why DC and certain fans might not have enjoyed the direction Tomasi went in with his Superman run and some of his Batman stories but those honestly tend to be my favorites. At this point, I read comics for the characters more than I do the action. Some of my favorite moments in comics come from seeing these heroes interact with each other and their families. I'm that weirdo who love seeing how extraordinary people handle the more mundane and normal parts of life just as much as I love seeing them doing all the stuff that superheroes are more known for doing.

It's why I love the Batfamily so much. It's why Tomasi's Superman is the only Superman run I've ever straight up loved. It's why I love groups like Young Justice, the Teen Titans, The X-Men, the MCU Avengers, and the Fantastic Four. Because they're superheroes, yes. But they're also a family. They have the same kinds of relationships, complexities, trials, and tribulations that you'd expect to see from any kind of family and I've just always found that to be really fascinating. I'm an action junkie just like any other comic/anime nerd. But I also like seeing characters just...interact with each other.

----------


## Arctic Cyclist

You know, the fundamental problem with DC is obliquely addressed in this interview. They don't understand the changing demographics of their readers, or that the reasons that characters like Damian and Harley are so popular is because they allow adults to re-self insert. Instead of attempting to recruit young readers, which fails miserably with things like both TT runs, they need to remember that adults are the major consumers of YA. Which is why Damian has been so popular: he reminds us of our own kids, younger siblings, nieces and nephews, the children of best friends. He allows the readers to be Dick Grayson and Bruce Wayne and even Talia al Ghul (depending on the writer and how racist they are). More importantly, he allows us to extend out that painfully short period of time when kids are kids and getting in trouble due to being kids who have misadventures.

I'm a fan of Damian because he reminds me of my best friend's nephew who was dropped on his door by CPS (child protective services). The kid was like Damian was when first introduced and gradually became the weirdo with a huge heart that Damian is under the influence of having a circle of adults who cared about him and were involved in his life. (He's also now a college graduate, started a career, and cheerfully putting off having kids, something I want to see Damian do...many years from now.)

As Dustin says, Damian is at his best when he acts 13, which is an age when everyone is inherently mad. Just like Bruce and Talia are at their best when they are two people who loved each other but didn't work out because life comes between them, but they can still be friends with benefits and attempt to raise their two children (Jason and Damian) together in a crazy world...that's not all that crazy compared to most countries.

Anyhow. Damian is the perfect Pinocchio.
https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-team-beh...lls-1841582691

----------


## Aahz

> We saw Jason inquiring how the set of the jail went.
> We saw Jason telling him how to steal money and cover his tracks
> and most importantly we saw Jason say that he was the one who reached out to Damian and Glass told us that Damian had a new mentor.
> 
> Everything points to Jason. {Did you forget those pages?}
> 
> Glass by not showing us how Damian decided on his new path put everything on Jason. Damian last we saw was just disillusioned but this isn't the 1st time Damian has been disillusioned.
> 
> I'm pretty sure Bruce isn't rooted to Gotham. The point is that everyone seems to be forgetting the mentor who reached out to Damian offering help that wasn't asked for and who we saw giving him bad advice and the conversation shows that jason had a hand if not full responsibility for what damian was doing.
> ...


To me the whole interaction sounds more like it was Damians own idea, and that Jason was just OK with it. Not like Jason told to do it or how to do it.
And that Jason had reached out now to give him the information about Gordon. In general Jason seemed to be just an source of information and not really a mentor.

----------


## CPSparkles

> To me the whole interaction sounds more like it was Damians own idea, and that Jason was just OK with it. Not like Jason told to do it or how to do it.
> And that Jason had reached out now to give him the information about Gordon. In general Jason seemed to be just an source of information and not really a mentor.


Why do you choose to interpret it that wahy? Could you give me just one example from canon to suggest not even support but just to suggest that Damian would reach out to Jason?


We have explains of Jason reaching out to Damian and we have examples of Jason being a corrupting influence on Kids [Tim who he encouraged to drink and The Robin kids who he mentored by getting them to steal]Even if you read it as vague then the fair thing is to let your past knowledge of these characters guide you. Damian would never in a million years reach out to Jason. Why would he? There';s really nothing that Jason can teach him. Making illegal jails? I might give you that if Bruce didn't already have one before Damian and Jason [jason kept penguin in his]

Mind wiping? Damian breaks into the JL database [how he learnt everything that happened to Thomas Waynes world] so easy for him to get that idea from there.

Anyway the part where Damian asks so who's next makes it clear that jason isn't just reaching out to give info about Gordon . It makes it clear that he has a list that Damian is working through

The solicits said he was a mentor and I know that solicits can be wrong but nothing here makes it appear that way.

The annoying thing is that Jason was pointless in the end so why bring him in?

----------


## CPSparkles

I prefer batfamily/Batdad over solo Bruce. Nightwing and Robin [Tim] got me into Batman in the first place. I was reading them and then got into their interactions with Batman

----------


## Ansa

I think Bruce will need some ice after Pennyworth RIP.

----------


## Zaresh

> Why do you choose to interpret it that wahy? Could you give me just one example from canon to suggest not even support but just to suggest that Damian would reach out to Jason?
> 
> 
> We have explains of Jason reaching out to Damian and we have examples of Jason being a corrupting influence on Kids [Tim who he encouraged to drink and The Robin kids who he mentored by getting them to steal]Even if you read it as vague then the fair thing is to let your past knowledge of these characters guide you. Damian would never in a million years reach out to Jason. Why would he? There';s really nothing that Jason can teach him. Making illegal jails? I might give you that if Bruce didn't already have one before Damian and Jason [jason kept penguin in his]
> 
> Mind wiping? Damian breaks into the JL database [how he learnt everything that happened to Thomas Waynes world] so easy for him to get that idea from there.
> 
> Anyway the part where Damian asks so who's next makes it clear that jason isn't just reaching out to give info about Gordon . It makes it clear that he has a list that Damian is working through
> 
> ...


Didn't Damian went to Jason when they discovered that Dick was alive in the New 52? I think I remember that from Grayson. It seems to me that he goes, or would go, when he doesn't have any other choice. As you said in your original post, he doesn't have here: he's doing something Bruce wouldn't like, or Barbara, or Cass, or Steph, or even Kate or Tim. He's at odds with his father, even. Dick is not there either (again). He's going to do something more than questionable. So, given the choices, he choices to go to Jason with his situation; Jason, who more than likely has the means to find and handle to him the info he needs because he's walking between the bad guys and he's dealing with vigilantism that side of the world (Gotham). Jason, who's most likely not to bat an eye when he knows the plan.

Damian is a smart teen, and he knows how the dark side of their wold works. Why wouldn't he go to Jason for information and some backup for his plans? 

Now, if you want to blame Jason, he's guilty of not stoping Damian, or trying to make him reconsidere. Or, heck, he's guilty of helping him because he wants to give a big "take that" to Bruce.  Or just because, well, he would see Damian's little dungeon as an option to work with, why not.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Didn't Damian went to Jason when they discovered that Dick was alive in the New 52? I think I remember that from Grayson. It seems to me that he goes, or would go, when he doesn't have any other choice. As you said in your original post, he doesn't have here: he's doing something Bruce wouldn't like, or Barbara, or Cass, or Steph, or even Kate or Tim. He's at odds with his father, even. Dick is not there either (again). He's going to do something more than questionable. So, given the choices, he choices to go to Jason with his situation; Jason, who more than likely has the means to find and handle to him the info he needs because he's walking between the bad guys and he's dealing with vigilantism that side of the world (Gotham). Jason, who's most likely not to bat an eye when he knows the plan.
> 
> Damian is a smart teen, and he knows how the dark side of their wold works. Why wouldn't he go to Jason for information and some backup for his plans? 
> 
> Now, if you want to blame Jason, he's guilty of not stoping Damian, or trying to make him reconsidere. Or, heck, he's guilty of helping him because he wants to give a big "take that" to Bruce.  Or just because, well, he would see Damian's little dungeon as an option to work with, why not.


No Damian did not go to Jason in the new 52 or any other time. Grayson came to Damian. Damian never approached Jason re Grayson.





Damian can find info that Bruce himself can not as established in the B&R Annual so no Damian wouldn't go to Jason for info. [this was regular detective methods as well]
Damian can get info lex Luthors computers and Jl's computers.

There is no info in canon that supports Damian ever needing to or reaching out to Jason what we have is info that shows the opposite.

Damian rates Jason as the lowest of the Robins. Why would you reach out to someone who you consider less than yourself? You might as well do it yourself. Damian reaching out to Jason is nonsensical and contradicted by canon. 

Red headed Jason has more canon backing it up than Damian reaching out to Jason. Jason in canon is strawberry blond and he has tried to kill the Bats multiple times.

But here not a shred of canon what we do have is stories that establish that Damian wouldn't accept help from Jason even when he has reached out

----------


## dietrich

Batman and Robin



https://twitter.com/ultimatejulio


Dick and Damian



https://twitter.com/Sammydrawsstuff



https://twitter.com/mimi850919

----------


## dietrich

> 


This is Everything. I love this page so much

----------


## Katana500

> I think Bruce will need some ice after Pennyworth RIP.


I'm certain that Joker War is going to entail Bruce deliberately working to bring the family back together addressing and alleviating each member of the Bat family's concern. I also think that his conversation with Wonderwoman in Superman Heroes is some super foreshadowing for whats to come - with Bruce being jealous of Superman for having a happy family that is all out in the open.

I think Joker War will end with Bruce hanging up the cowl and doing what Alfred would have wanted - being a family with those he cares about most.

----------


## dietrich

I can't wait. I also keep waiting for someone to explain how Damian came to inherit Tim's jacket but nothing.

----------


## Ansa

> I'm certain that Joker War is going to entail Bruce deliberately working to bring the family back together addressing and alleviating each member of the Bat family's concern. I also think that his conversation with Wonderwoman in Superman Heroes is some super foreshadowing for whats to come - with Bruce being jealous of Superman for having a happy family that is all out in the open.
> 
> I think Joker War will end with Bruce hanging up the cowl and doing what Alfred would have wanted - being a family with those he cares about most.


I don't doubt that they will come together again in a few months. But it was nice to see Bruce getting held responsible for his behaviour for once.

----------


## Blue22

Not really for once. He gets called out all the time. In fact RIP was one of the more tame lashings that he's gotten from Barbara. The problem is he never learns and never admits that the people telling him off are right.

----------


## millernumber1

> I can't wait. I also keep waiting for someone to explain how Damian came to inherit Tim's jacket but nothing.


That was really cute. I thought Damian's story, Waynocchio, was quite funny, in Batman Tales: Once Upon a Crime.

----------


## dietrich

> That was really cute. I thought Damian's story, Waynocchio, was quite funny, in Batman Tales: Once Upon a Crime.


I'm glad to hear it. I've been looking forward to this book for ever. 
I hope it features all the family just like Lil'Gotham. There's such slim pickings for Batfamily stuff it's funny to even keep calling them that

----------


## Ansa

> Not really for once. He gets called out all the time. In fact RIP was one of the more tame lashings that he's gotten from Barbara. The problem is he never learns and never admits that the people telling him off are right.


He usually gets called out and then he gets let off the hook. Or Alfred or Superman swoop in with a line about how Bruce is still a great man/trusted friend. Here they are finally leaving him and really roast him for an entire book, not just one page.

And hey, Bruce didn't hit anyone this time. We're making progress.

----------


## dietrich

> He usually gets called out and then he gets let off the hook. Or Alfred or Superman swoop in with a line about how Bruce is still a great man/trusted friend. Here they are finally leaving him and really roast him for an entire book, not just one page.
> 
> And hey, Bruce didn't hit anyone this time. We're making progress.


Oh they left him? Good show. It's about time but on the other hand noooo.... I want family.

This will make Poster Korath happy.

----------


## Blue22

I want the family back. But I want them to do it without Bruce...at first, anyway. That whole book kept hammering in that Alfred and Dick were the ones keeping everyone together and that now Bruce needs to pick up the slack since they're gone. But why don't they do it themselves?  You know what Alfred would have wanted to see? Since having all of them together was his last wish: 

The kids coming together without any prompting from him or Bruce.

----------


## dietrich

> I want the family back. But I want them to do it without Bruce...at first, anyway. That whole book kept hammering in that Alfred and Dick were the ones keeping everyone together and that now Bruce needs to pick up the slack since they're gone. But why don't they do it themselves?  You know what Alfred would have wanted to see? Since having all of them together was his last wish: 
> 
> The kids coming together without any prompting from him or Bruce.


I do like the idea of the family picking themselves up without Bruce, Alfred or Dick but with Tim lost, Damian where he is and Selina being Selina I don't see it. There is no one that the rest respects enough or that's strong enough to lead to lead. In fact there is no family right now

----------


## Blue22

Their love for Alfred and wanting to honor what he would have wanted, along with some obligatory threat that needs all of them to be stopped, should suffice. At least to get them started back on the right track.

----------


## Ansa

> I want the family back. But I want them to do it without Bruce...at first, anyway. That whole book kept hammering in that Alfred and Dick were the ones keeping everyone together and that now Bruce needs to pick up the slack since they're gone. But why don't they do it themselves?  You know what Alfred would have wanted to see? Since having all of them together was his last wish: 
> 
> The kids coming together without any prompting from him or Bruce.


The issue is not just Bruce not bringing them together though. They also criticize him for how he handled Bane, The Batman Who Laughs and for his plans to reinvent Gotham.

Tim and Damian are still minors, putting the responsibility on them seems unfair. Jason and Ric both weren't sure why they were even there for obvious reasons. Barbara was only really close to Dick.

With Alfred and Dick gone the last person that chained all of them together was Bruce and he's supposed to be their leader.

----------


## Ansa

> Oh they left him? Good show. It's about time but on the other hand noooo.... I want family.
> 
> This will make Poster Korath happy.


Let's look at it like this: DC finally aknowledged a lot of the things that went wrong with the family since the start of Rebirth. In most cases that means that a reunion is on the horizon. It's not going to be like the last couple of months where the family was missing without anyone really commenting on it.

----------


## Blue22

> The issue is not just Bruce not bringing them together though. They also criticize him for how he handled Bane, The Batman Who Laughs and for his plans to reinvent Gotham.
> 
> Tim and Damian are still minors, putting the responsibility on them seems unfair. Jason and Ric both weren't sure why they were even there for obvious reasons. Barbara was only really close to Dick.
> 
> With Alfred and Dick gone the last person that chained all of them together was Bruce and he's supposed to be their leader.


Maybe that's what needs to change. Maybe Bruce isn't the only one who has issues that need addressing. Maybe the responsibility of bringing the family together and keeping them like that shouldn't always fall on just one person. They don't gotta be successful but an honest attempt from all of them to stay together beats immediately going their separate ways whenever they lose their glue.

----------


## dietrich

> Let's look at it like this: DC finally aknowledged a lot of the things that went wrong with the family since the start of Rebirth. In most cases that means that a reunion is on the horizon. It's not going to be like the last couple of months where the family was missing without anyone really commenting on it.


I hope it's DC. Tynion and Tomasi are two writers who've never been shy of calling Bruce out. Who knows Fergus might be right and Bruce might be forced into facing some truth about himself and his parenting.

----------


## hova4life

I am so sick of DC continuing this destruction of Damian and Bruce's relationship. Ugh. Damian is just a kid. I don't understand why DC is continuing with Bruce being a crap father. It's so uncalled for.

----------


## Ansa

> Maybe that's what needs to change. Maybe Bruce isn't the only one who has issues that need addressing. Maybe the responsibility of bringing the family together and keeping them like that shouldn't always fall on just one person. They don't gotta be successful but an honest attempt from all of them to stay together beats immediately going their separate ways whenever they lose their glue.


I think we have two different opinions what it means to be a leader. Bruce has to make an effort first. The rest have forgiven him for his moods and peculiarities long enough. It's Bruce who has to grow up now and learn to fix these things on his own.

----------


## dietrich

> I think we have two different opinions what it means to be a leader. Bruce has to make an effort first. The rest have forgiven him for his moods and peculiarities long enough. It's Bruce who has to grow up now and learn to fix these things on his own.


 There's also the setting the right example. While I felt it was regressive having Damian still make comments about blood son in Rebirth Tec when we know he's past that and considers at least Dick [we have canon evidence for this] family. The panel when he said that in Rebirth Tec I feel that Bruce should rebuke him. Not correcting him reinforces that idea and splinters the family. 

Damian emulates Bruce and Dick. He respects and trusts them [Dick at least since he recently lost faith in Bruce] He's never going to respect Jason or Tim if Bruce doesn't lead the way. 

Dick has checked him on his disrespect but Bruce never does.

The buck stops at Bruce as the parent and the head of the family.

----------


## dietrich

https://symeonak.tumblr.com






*So, I want you to know… Even though right now you feel like you’re all alone, and you’ve lost your father and your brothers… You’ve gained a sister. You are forgiven, Damian Wayne.*

*Maya Ducard*

----------


## dietrich

Baby Bat



https://drawing-cookie.tumblr.com





https://ascender56.tumblr.com

----------


## Blue22

> https://symeonak.tumblr.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *So, I want you to know… Even though right now you feel like you’re all alone, and you’ve lost your father and your brothers… You’ve gained a sister. You are forgiven, Damian Wayne.*
> 
> *Maya Ducard*


*SIGH* Damn I miss Maya. Damian could really use some family right now.

----------


## Zaresh

I'm two pages late (I've been at home for a few hours already, but I couldn't look into this until now), so my apologies in advance. But, to resume the topic of Damian reaching Jason and the other way around, I was sure it was Damian to Jason, but it seems I was missremembering. The issue was Grayson #12, and it's never stated who came to whom. They're just both there to meet with Dick, and then Dick is giving them stuff. So I guess Dick was the one who asked Jason to bring Damian to him. Except... Dick didn't know Damian was alive again. So, I guess, it was all Jason's idea. It happens again, for the record, during Robin War: Jason goes to Dick for Damian's (because Dick's the only one Damian's probably willed to listen to).

I don't know about what's written in that annual in Batman Eternal (I can't remember anything, and I don't own the book nor have access to it now), but I guess it's similar to what Damian comments everywhere else; that the's a genius and doesn't need anyone's help, and that he can deal with whatever problem and find whatever info he needs without even Batman's help. Well, I've always took that not too literally. Why? Because he does need help sometimes, despite his pride, he's not omniscient, no one is. It's a sign of maturity realise that you can't do everything by yourself, no matter how much good or smart or professional you're. I think it could be great if he does admit it from time to time, to be honest. Make him more relatable, more like some kids I've to teach, actually: they think the same, but slowly, they reach that point in where they see that they could use some help, and even doing things better if they get some aid for certain things. I could see him, again, when he has no one else to rely on, going to Jason for some minor help, like in this case. But, well, you guys are the hard fans. You know better, and if you say that he wouldn't and he can do perfectly fine by himself, well, I'll have to believe that (basically, as a kind of an outsider, it would be pretty bad of me if I were to tell you how your fave is, right?).

(Wew, wall of text. My apologies for that again).

----------


## dietrich

> I'm two pages late (I've been at home for a few hours already, but I couldn't look into this until now), so my apologies in advance. But, to resume the topic of Damian reaching Jason and the other way around, I was sure it was Damian to Jason, but it seems I was missremembering. The issue was Grayson #12, and it's never stated who came to whom. They're just both there to meet with Dick, and then Dick is giving them stuff. So I guess Dick was the one who asked Jason to bring Damian to him. Except... Dick didn't know Damian was alive again. So, I guess, it was all Jason's idea. It happens again, for the record, during Robin War: Jason goes to Dick for Damian's (because Dick's the only one Damian's probably willed to listen to).
> 
> I don't know about what's written in that annual in Batman Eternal (I can't remember anything, and I don't own the book nor have access to it now), but I guess it's similar to what Damian comments everywhere else; that the's a genius and doesn't need anyone's help, and that he can deal with whatever problem and find whatever info he needs without even Batman's help. Well, I've always took that not too literally. Why? Because he does need help sometimes, despite his pride, he's not omniscient, no one is. It's a sign of maturity realise that you can't do everything by yourself, no matter how much good or smart or professional you're. I think it could be great if he does admit it from time to time, to be honest. Make him more relatable, more like some kids I've to teach, actually: they think the same, but slowly, they reach that point in where they see that they could use some help, and even doing things better if they get some aid for certain things. I could see him, again, when he has no one else to rely on, going to Jason for some minor help, like in this case. But, well, you guys are the hard fans. You know better, and if you say that he wouldn't and he can do perfectly fine by himself, well, I'll have to believe that (basically, as a kind of an outsider, it would be pretty bad of me if I were to tell you how your fave is, right?).
> 
> (Wew, wall of text. My apologies for that again).


That was Tim that was with Jason in Grayson 12.

Damian certainly have a need and a tendency to brag or act like he doesn't need any help but he often does. That's correct but going to or accepting Jason's mentorship is a complete 180. I like Damian but even I know that he isn't mature enough or secure enough in his own worth to accept or let Jason think he can teach him things.

He hasn't been shown to in story. Not in past stories, not in TT and not since which is why he's currently having the issues he's having. 

It's a huge flaw that leads to him stumbling and making mistakes. Supersons touched on it but didn't push him to a point where he grows enough to overcome it.

----------


## Zaresh

> That was Tim that was with Jason in Grayson 12.
> 
> Damian certainly have a need and a tendency to brag or act like he doesn't need any help but he often does. That's correct but going to or accepting Jason's mentorship is a complete 180. I like Damian but even I know that he isn't mature enough or secure enough in his own worth to accept or let Jason think he can teach him things.
> 
> He hasn't been shown to in story. Not in past stories, not in TT and not since which is why he's currently having the issues he's having. 
> 
> It's a huge flaw that leads to him stumbling and making mistakes. Supersons touched on it but didn't push him to a point where he grows enough to overcome it.


Tim and Jason. I looked at the issue for that one. First go Bruce and Dick meeting. Next ones are Tim and Jason, who meet Dick in the roofs, both of them (memories of both). Then is Barbara's turn. Damian (with Jason) go the last (Damian's memories only). It's a nice issue. It's not my most liked of the run (that's the one with the baby crossing the desert), but it was a good one.

Naaah, solicits are liars and are always overdramatic. It wasn't mentorship, let's be honest. It was just a team up. It lasted just like... two issues, I think, if we count the one in which they fight.

Maybe with the 5G we can see Damian growing mature. But one think I dislike about it? It's the possibility that we could be robbed of reading him doing so, if they don't publish some limited or some mini series about the in-between years.

----------


## dietrich

> Tim and Jason. I looked at the issue for that one. First go Bruce and Dick meeting. Next ones are Tim and Jason, who meet Dick in the roofs, both of them (memories of both). Then is Barbara's turn. Damian (with Jason) go the last (Damian's memories only). It's a nice issue. It's not my most liked of the run (that's the one with the baby crossing the desert), but it was a good one.
> 
> Naaah, solicits are liars and are always overdramatic. It wasn't mentorship, let's be honest. It was just a team up. It lasted just like... two issues, I think, if we count the one in which they fight.
> 
> Maybe with the 5G we can see Damian growing mature. But one think I dislike about it? It's the possibility that we could be robbed of reading him doing so, if they don't publish some limited or some mini series about the in-between years.


I really hope they don't off panel it if they do something where he matures and grows past his insecurities. It's a really big step since a ton about him stems from that. It wouldn't be believable.

Honestly while I want him to mature I think his insecurity complex does balance him out and ensures that his path isn't too smooth. A character needs to face challenges to grow and to keep engaging audiences. 

Part of the reason why I like Batman666 is that we see that he grows up not feeling like he's as good as Bruce or Dick but he's still determined to keep trying and he's still making mistakes. I would hate it if 5G suddenly gives us confident and completely mature Damian.

More mature fine but if it's a drastic change in personality then I want to see that journey. Hopefully the fall out from his choices in TT leads to reflection and growth

----------


## adrikito

> https://symeonak.tumblr.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *So, I want you to know Even though right now you feel like youre all alone, and youve lost your father and your brothers Youve gained a sister. You are forgiven, Damian Wayne.*
> 
> *Maya Ducard*


Thanks I really love her..


Damian appeared in Penyworth R.I.P.

----------


## Blue22

He did. And he was, funny enough, one of the most level headed ones there. It's just a shame no one has yet to tell him that what happened to Alfred wasn't his fault. You know something's really wrong with him if he's crying  :Frown:

----------


## Ansa

TEEN TITANS #42
written by ROBBIE THOMPSON
art by EDUARDO PANSICA and JULIO FERREIRA
cover by BERNARD CHANG
variant cover by KHARY RANDOLPH
If theres no more Robin and no more Mercy Hall, does that mean no more Teen Titans? With the team in tatters after their encounter with Batman, the remaining Teen Titans attempt to pick up the pieces of their lives. Is this the end of the team?
ON SALE 05.20.20
$3.99 US | 32 PAGES

----------


## Ansa

Really not sure what Bruce is going to do with Damian. Like, yeah, Damian's not going to be Robin anymore and apparently Mercy Hall got destroyed or something, but this doesn't really reveal what happened to Damian.

----------


## Ansa

> He did. And he was, funny enough, one of the most level headed ones there. It's just a shame no one has yet to tell him that what happened to Alfred wasn't his fault. You know something's really wrong with him if he's crying


20200212_195942.jpg

Bruce: "He's fine."

----------


## Ansa

Seriously, if out of all people Damian openly blames himself, cries and admits that he's traumatized you know things are bad.

----------


## hova4life

Poor Damian needs a break. That kid has gone through so much within the last year; Alfred dying, Dick losing his memory, Jon aging up and leaving Earth to the future, Bruce being negligent. His entire support system has been taken away. I wonder what this whole 5g crap has in store for him. Maybe he takes a break and goes off to boarding school or something. I'm so annoyed.

----------


## Blue22

I did want Damian to eventually move on from Robin...but not like this. Not in this already poorly handled and vague conflict he and Bruce have had going on for the past three or so years.

I hope he at least quit and that Bruce didn't fire him. Cuz if it's the latter, Bruce has A LOT of fucking nerve!

----------


## Ansa

> I did want Damian to eventually move on from Robin...but not like this. Not in this already poorly handled and vague conflict he and Bruce have had going on for the past three or so years.
> 
> I hope he at least quit and that Bruce didn't fire him. Cuz if it's the latter, Bruce has A LOT of fucking nerve!


"How dare you copy all the shit I've done for the last few years"

----------


## adrikito

batman beyond 44 damian wayne terry.jpg

BATMAN BEYOND #44
written by DAN JURGENS
art by SEAN CHEN
cover by DUSTIN NGUYEN
variant cover by FRANCIS MANAPUL
*Batman brings a wounded Damian Wayne to base*, only to discover that Damian has been dethroned as leader of the League of Assassins and left for dead by a former acolyte of Ra’s Al Ghul’s called Mr. Zero! Batman, Bruce, and Damian will have to join forces to stop Mr. Zero from eradicating humanity!

----------


## Digifiend

Robin special creative teams named: https://www.bleedingcool.com/2020/02...r-spectacular/

These two are definitely Damian. Super Sons and Teen Titans respectively.

Peter J. Tomasi and Jorge Jimenez
Robbie Thompson and Ramon Villalobos

----------


## Ansa

I don't know what Dick Grayson fans would think of this, he has gone through a lot too, but I wouldn't mind it if Dick had a "I abandoned my boy" moment and the whole "When your Dad came back, there was a moment I thought it would be better fo you if you stayed with me. As my partner. As my..." situation came full circle. 
I don't mean this in a "Dick puts everything aside to help Damian" way but more in a "they both help each other recover after a really crappy time" way.

Better than DC using them for shock value or drama in Joker War, Death Metal or 5G.
If they make Damian a villain for 5G I'm going to be mad. I'm tired of this boring idea.

----------


## dietrich

Alfred RIP was really bad.  I work with 'At risk kids and family who need early help so this was a tough read. Some topics shouldn't just be tossed in for added angst.
Someone should have said something to Damian. Someone should have told Jason what really happened when he said that Damian didn't listen.
More importantly I'm so sick of writer using characters as devices and twisting them to suit the narrative they want to write.

Jason wouldn't imply that it was Damian's fault. He's knows better and sin't so careless with his words.

----------


## Ansa

> Alfred RIP was really bad.  I work with 'At risk kids and family who need early help so this was a tough read. Some topics shouldn't just be tossed in for added angst.
> Someone should have said something to Damian. Someone should have told Jason what really happened when he said that Damian didn't listen.
> More importantly I'm so sick of writer using characters as devices and twisting them to suit the narrative they want to write.
> 
> Jason wouldn't imply that it was Damian's fault. He's knows better and sin't so careless with his words.


I disagree.
Jason wasn't involved in the plan, he didn't know better and accusing Damian made sense. Jason can be very judgemental. Nobody correcting him was weird.
Anyone besides Bruce going after Damian would have been pointless because he wouldn't have listened. It had to be Bruce, but Bruce not doing anything when Damian is in pain is sadly very much in character for current Bruce. Which is why Barbara called him out for it. I see this as Tynion and Tomasi adressing a lot of the things that have been wrong with Rebirth Bruce in general. We as readers might have felt like Bruce was being terrible to his family for months now, but King obviously didn't see a problem with this and now Tomasi and Tynion chose to confront this problem instead of ignoring it or pretending it doesn't exist.

----------


## Restingvoice

Batman Tales out 4 days ago but I need a story I actually want to read

bc516a44b21ab2900a70a4a474697749._SX1280_QL80_TTD_.jpg

----------


## adrikito

> Robin special creative teams named: https://www.bleedingcool.com/2020/02...r-spectacular/
> 
> These two are definitely Damian. Super Sons and Teen Titans respectively.
> 
> Peter J. Tomasi and Jorge Jimenez
> Robbie Thompson and Ramon Villalobos


I am happy to see that is not only SS.. It seems that I will be able to enjoy Damian. Thanks TT. 





> TEEN TITANS #42
> written by ROBBIE THOMPSON
> art by EDUARDO PANSICA and JULIO FERREIRA
> cover by BERNARD CHANG
> variant cover by KHARY RANDOLPH
> If theres no more Robin and no more Mercy Hall, does that mean no more Teen Titans? With the team in tatters after their encounter with Batman, the remaining Teen Titans attempt to pick up the pieces of their lives. Is this the end of the team?
> ON SALE 05.20.20
> $3.99 US | 32 PAGES


GOODBYE MERCY HALL.  :Frown:

----------


## dietrich

> I disagree.
> Jason wasn't involved in the plan, he didn't know better and accusing Damian made sense. Jason can be very judgemental. Nobody correcting him was weird.
> Anyone besides Bruce going after Damian would have been pointless because he wouldn't have listened. It had to be Bruce, but Bruce not doing anything when Damian is in pain is sadly very much in character for current Bruce. Which is why Barbara called him out for it. I see this as Tynion and Tomasi adressing a lot of the things that have been wrong with Rebirth Bruce in general. We as readers might have felt like Bruce was being terrible to his family for months now, but King obviously didn't see a problem with this and now Tomasi and Tynion chose to confront this problem instead of ignoring it or pretending it doesn't exist.


I'm aware Jason didn't know that Damian was sent by Bruce. I'm saying that making the comment he made. Putting the Blame on Damian in that moment is something he wouldn't do. it's something you just don't do in such situations when emotions are running high and the teen was already blaming himself.

Jason is more sensitive than that. 

They all behaved badly. Bruce was just the worst.

The thing is confronting the issue means nothing if DC doesn't back it up and have Bruce make changes. This isn't the 1st time they've confronted him.

Honestly these confrontations that led nowhere are harmful since it handswave's what's actually a serious subject.

Bruce has done some shady things to his family. That's become almost the norm but it wasn't always the case.

Not to mention that Bruce's actions are decided by the writer. The writer's should be the ones called out since the onus is on them. not to mention that some of his abusive behaviour is also written to further the narrative of other characters.
Tomasi and Tynion have also written their share of Abusive Bruce.

----------


## dietrich

> batman beyond 44 damian wayne terry.jpg
> 
> BATMAN BEYOND #44
> written by DAN JURGENS
> art by SEAN CHEN
> cover by DUSTIN NGUYEN
> variant cover by FRANCIS MANAPUL
> *Batman brings a wounded Damian Wayne to base*, only to discover that Damian has been dethroned as leader of the League of Assassins and left for dead by a former acolyte of Ra’s Al Ghul’s called Mr. Zero! Batman, Bruce, and Damian will have to join forces to stop Mr. Zero from eradicating humanity!


I take it some didn't like Damian changing the LOA into a more heroic cult then?

----------


## Katana500

I wonder if Damian will be gone for an issue of Teen Titans before coming back with a new identity? I'd be suprised if Teen Titans continued without a Robin for long. So I expect Damian will return before the current iteration of the team winds up.

----------


## Darkcrusade25

> I wonder if Damian will be gone for an issue of Teen Titans before coming back with a new identity? I'd be suprised if Teen Titans continued without a Robin for long. So I expect Damian will return before the current iteration of the team winds up.


Maybe he'll come back as...."Wayne"?

In all seriousness though, I don't appreciate how they've handled Damian since mid 2018.

----------


## Katana500

Do we know what kinda age Damian will probably be after the 5G age ups?

Will he be like 18 -19?

----------


## Digifiend

He debuted 14 years ago, so it's certainly possible. He's only aged three years in that time.

----------


## Ansa

> I'm aware Jason didn't know that Damian was sent by Bruce. I'm saying that making the comment he made. Putting the Blame on Damian in that moment is something he wouldn't do. it's something you just don't do in such situations when emotions are running high and the teen was already blaming himself.
> 
> Jason is more sensitive than that. 
> 
> They all behaved badly. Bruce was just the worst.
> 
> The thing is confronting the issue means nothing if DC doesn't back it up and have Bruce make changes. This isn't the 1st time they've confronted him.
> 
> Honestly these confrontations that led nowhere are harmful since it handswave's what's actually a serious subject.
> ...


The family has gone through several extremely traumatic events and the persons that usually smoothed things over are gone. You might not find it appropriate, but it makes sense that the situation would escalate at Alfred's wake. And I don't understand the "It's something you don't do" statement, the family is hurt, of course they are saying things that they shouldn't say. That's often the case in an argument.
This isn't a fanfiction where everyone is unrealisticly considerate of the others thoughts and feelings.

If you think they behaved badly you should maybe take another look at the issue. Should someone go after Damian? Yes. But Barbara also said that no one thought Damian was to blame while Damian was still there with them. Just because it's not enough doesn't mean they did nothing. And considering the situation and Bruce's lack of reaction to the whole thing I can understand why Barbara got so agressive towards Bruce. She just wanted to see a reaction, to see if he still cares.

Tim wasn't awful. He offered help, but he's not a naive kid anymore, he needs Bruce to say he wants his help. Jason stays pretty fair and says they shouldn't blame Bruce, but he needs to use his brain to fix his dysfunctional family for once.
Barbara isn't Bruce's kid and considering that her own father got infected and the whole BWL mess is Bruce's fault, as is City of Bane when you get down to it, why wouldn't she be mad at Bruce. But even with all those reasons to be angry she tells Bruce that it's normal in a family to be in a bad spot and to make mistakes. But family means you have responsibility and Bruce, their leader and rold model, is doing nothing.
Ric admits that even he feels he would usually try to fix things if he was still himself, but he isn't. He stays pretty nice to Bruce for their entire conversation.
When you get down to it the only thing they really ask of Bruce is to be their father figure and act as a role model.
Dick and Alfred are not there anymore to smooth things over for him.

I don't think that's an unfair request because contrary to what some people online seem to think, this issue doesn't take place right after Alfred's death. Bruce is a fast builder, but this has to take place at least several weeks if not months after Alfred got killed. You don't build a new hospital in a week.
Bruce got his time to grieve and now he needs to be an adult and take responsibility. He let his family get fractured for too long.

Which honestly, is an important part of the entire issue.

And I wholeheartedly disagree about those confrontations being harmful. This isn't harmful, King pretending everything was fine in Batman #85 was harmful. He took a look at what his own Batman did and at what happened in the rest of the batfamily titles and went: This doesn't matter, I don't need to talk about it. Tynion and Tomasi looked at it and decided to come out and say: This was wrong and we need to adress it. You can't expect to see a story about reconciliation that makes sense if you don't admit that you have a problem first.
And you might hate it, but Bruce doing absolutely nothing is very in character for Rebirth Bruce. But it didn't get aknowledged by the writing before. For me it was important for them to call it out and they did. Bruce gets criticised for it the entire book. This is them making a comment about Rebirth Bruce.

Of course his behaviour is sometimes written to further the narrative of other characters. The same thing happens the other way around all the time too. It's part of sharing one universe across several titles. I've seen worse cases than this and honestly, portraying Bruce in a bad light will not stop people from seeing him as a hero and cool character. It's hard to damage the Batman brand.

And the cases of abusive behaviour from Bruce that get talked about when it comes to Rebirth Bruce isn't Tynion's and especially not Tomasi's doing. That's mainly King's Batman, Lobdell on Red Hood and Percy and Glass on Teen Titans.
Tynion and Tomasi simply chose to aknowledge some of this in a Batman book now. Mainly King's Batman really.

You might have wanted for the writers to ignore all of this and just write Bruce like a good father again, but to me that would have rung false to the situation the family has been in since mid 2018.

----------


## Yennefer

Hi!
If I remember correctly Bruce will be around 60 yo... Considering  that now he is approx. in early-mid forties (38-45yo I think) and now Damian is 13... I would say he will be at early-mid 20s.... 
(Approx. 23-25)... There was an article about 5G in general.... 
You should search it up for more accurate information!  :Smile: 

Edit: This is the answer for someone that asked about ages... I clicked "reply" on the post, but something went wrong...

----------


## Digifiend

Yeah, either you didn't notice that there was a page 56 - my reply to the same post last night ended up starting a new page - or you should've clicked "Reply With Quote".

----------


## Katana500

> Hi!
> If I remember correctly Bruce will be around 60 yo... Considering  that now he is approx. in early-mid forties (38-45yo I think) and now Damian is 13... I would say he will be at early-mid 20s.... 
> (Approx. 23-25)... There was an article about 5G in general.... 
> You should search it up for more accurate information! 
> 
> Edit: This is the answer for someone that asked about ages... I clicked "reply" on the post, but something went wrong...


If Damian is in his late teens or early twenties. Its pretty much gauranteed he will have moved on from Robin I think.

If Dick or Barbara or even Jason will be in their 40s or late 30s  I wonder if any of them will have children of their own. Hypothetically Dick could have a child that could be around Damian's age - could be a good way of introducing M'ari Grayson or Elainna Grayson or even a new kid.  Same with any other characters in Dicks generation really - could have children who are Damian's age or younger.

----------


## Digifiend

Yeah, that's a good point - if the Titans are now in their 40s, they'd probably have teenage kids. Wally obviously has Jai and Irey, they could bring back Roy's daughter and Donna's son (both previously killed off), and as you say, give Dick a kid or two as well. Beyond will probably be an Elseworld and I can't see the Bat office wanting him to end up back with Starfire. More likely that it'd be a new child with Barbara.

----------


## Jackalope89

And with Jason and Artemis both having feelings for one another, but not quite willing to admit to them just yet, that's another possibility there.

Though Bruce isn't exactly a fan of metahumans and aliens. In fact, it seems the likes Clark, Diana, the rest of the core Justice League are the exceptions, not the rule. But even then, he doesn't want them in Gotham (at least in costume). So that could be a sticking point (well, another) between Bruce and Jason.

----------


## Katana500

> And with Jason and Artemis both having feelings for one another, but not quite willing to admit to them just yet, that's another possibility there.
> 
> Though Bruce isn't exactly a fan of metahumans and aliens. In fact, it seems the likes Clark, Diana, the rest of the core Justice League are the exceptions, not the rule. But even then, he doesn't want them in Gotham (at least in costume). So that could be a sticking point (well, another) between Bruce and Jason.


Kinda off topic for the Damian Page. But I wonder If Red Hood and the Outlaws will continue into 5g if so they could easily make it the next generation. Could age up Lian Harper or The current generation outlaw crew. And give Jason a kid. Would be awesome!




> Yeah, that's a good point - if the Titans are now in their 40s, they'd probably have teenage kids. Wally obviously has Jai and Irey, they could bring back Roy's daughter and Donna's son (both previously killed off), and as you say, give Dick a kid or two as well. Beyond will probably be an Elseworld and I can't see the Bat office wanting him to end up back with Starfire. More likely that it'd be a new child with Barbara.


Shame cause I think M'ari Grayson is alot more interesting and unique - especially her relationship with Damian which is slightly wierd but I also kinda like. I think you are probably right though - unless Mari was born during Dick's Teen Titans day - and him and Starfire have since split up leaving a Dick - Barbara romance open.

I certainly think! We could potentially see some more characters around Damian's age for him to interact with in the future which could be very interesting!

----------


## Yennefer

> Yeah, either you didn't notice that there was a page 56 - my reply to the same post last night ended up starting a new page - or you should've clicked "Reply With Quote".


I clicked " reply" on the post... On other forums, this options has the quotes... Anyway, I didn't have the time to find a way to fix it back then...
Also, I saw your post, however it happened to know something else and I just wrote it  :Smile:  
Thank you though!

----------


## Dazai_Osamu

> Alfred RIP was really bad.  I work with 'At risk kids and family who need early help so this was a tough read. Some topics shouldn't just be tossed in for added angst.
> Someone should have said something to Damian. Someone should have told Jason what really happened when he said that Damian didn't listen.
> More importantly I'm so sick of writer using characters as devices and twisting them to suit the narrative they want to write.
> 
> Jason wouldn't imply that it was Damian's fault. He's knows better and sin't so careless with his words.


It was bad Alfred was the one who soothed a lot of Batfamily's emotional issues between them and Bruce and he wasn't that retired superspy, that was only a little part of him and honestly the less important one. Barbara and Damian are what co-workers, they don't have a personnel , she pointed out at Bruce his responsabilities with him, she did more than enough. 

Tomasi always tries to make look Damian better at the expense of other characters, this case at Jason's, anyway, did someone tell him Damian's actions were part of Bruce's 'fantastic' plan? If they had told him, he'd blame Bruce; however, Damian and him doesn't have a real relationship right now, after all Damian accused him of trying to kill the teen titans and of being Leviathan... Comfort will never come from him to Damian. 

Tim and Damian have never got along and don't like each other, it's understandable, Damian has tried to kill him and Tim's reactions are normal. Damian isn't that physically  violent with him but it's still a jerk and Tim isn't emotionally mature, in fact he's  bitchildish in that aspect and that’s normal, he's 16 years old  (until canon states otherwise), They have a bad and toxic relationship defined by negative things, they never do heart-to-heart. Moreover, it's unclear if they are brothers, I mean it's implied Tim was adopted by Bruce here, his original origin story is back, Jack Drake is dead, his home is Wayne Manor but it isn't confirmed, maybe he's only Bruce's ward so there is less of familial obligation to try to help Damian.

In fact, Damian only 'brother' is Dick, even if Dick is only Bruce's ward in Rebirth, and Dick has never had a good relationship with Jason, before his death it was less bad but not really close and Dick and Tim were good brothers, Dick was the supportive and reliable and Tim had a lot of admiration for him, but since New 52 they are friendly to each other and co-workers, I mean when Tim 'died' and Dick was like 'it was a good guy with a great future ahead'... Tim and Jason don't have a relationship save this weird pairing the spares in New 52 and in Rebirth they don't interact.

Current batbrothers aren't really brothers, and they are part of a dysfunctional family but the big difference with other families like them it's at the end of the day they fight but 'ohh look at them they love each other' but with the current batbrothers that doesn't happen, they are loyal to the mission and to each other (sometimes) but it's not due to love between them, in fact it's more due to their feelings towards Bruce than what they feel for each other save Damian and Dick.

----------


## adrikito

Teen Titans 39 preview:

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2020/02...ns-39-preview/

I like the new art. Is one of the few times that I saw Emiko beautiful here:

teentitans39_6.jpg

----------


## Digifiend

It's the hair. She usually has a hairband, but she's lacking it here. Which makes her look more mature.

Damian's R looks more like Tim's there.

----------


## Yennefer

I am tired of this run...
But if it ends, Damian will have no title...
How come DC never made a comic just for him during the last year? Something about character development and not the same s#$t about him killing, or being Ra's or whatever...
Also, do you know if Teen Titans is over after The Djinn War arc?

----------


## Blue22

Well the new art is certainly better but I'm still not feeling it. I haven't really liked any of the artists on these past two runs since Meyers left.




> Also, do you know if Teen Titans is over after The Djinn War arc?


From what I can tell, they're not gonna bring Djinn back and the team keeps going after Damian leaves. So with my two favorites gone, there's not really gonna be anything keeping me around once Glass is done.

----------


## Digifiend

I'm sure it'll only last one more arc anyway, because of 5G. Not a lot of point relaunching yet, as it would end up doing so again after six issues or so.

----------


## dietrich

> The family has gone through several extremely traumatic events and the persons that usually smoothed things over are gone. You might not find it appropriate, but it makes sense that the situation would escalate at Alfred's wake. And I don't understand the "It's something you don't do" statement, the family is hurt, of course they are saying things that they shouldn't say. That's often the case in an argument.
> This isn't a fanfiction where everyone is unrealisticly considerate of the others thoughts and feelings.
> 
> If you think they behaved badly you should maybe take another look at the issue. Should someone go after Damian? Yes. But Barbara also said that no one thought Damian was to blame while Damian was still there with them. Just because it's not enough doesn't mean they did nothing. And considering the situation and Bruce's lack of reaction to the whole thing I can understand why Barbara got so agressive towards Bruce. She just wanted to see a reaction, to see if he still cares.
> 
> Tim wasn't awful. He offered help, but he's not a naive kid anymore, he needs Bruce to say he wants his help. Jason stays pretty fair and says they shouldn't blame Bruce, but he needs to use his brain to fix his dysfunctional family for once.
> Barbara isn't Bruce's kid and considering that her own father got infected and the whole BWL mess is Bruce's fault, as is City of Bane when you get down to it, why wouldn't she be mad at Bruce. But even with all those reasons to be angry she tells Bruce that it's normal in a family to be in a bad spot and to make mistakes. But family means you have responsibility and Bruce, their leader and rold model, is doing nothing.
> Ric admits that even he feels he would usually try to fix things if he was still himself, but he isn't. He stays pretty nice to Bruce for their entire conversation.
> When you get down to it the only thing they really ask of Bruce is to be their father figure and act as a role model.
> ...


Alfred very rarely ever smooths things over but I'm not going to get into the reason why Alfred is the one at the root of all this.

As a professional based on what happened in the issue the recommended action would be to engage the family and come up with an intervention plan for the family and Damian.

Jason's comment is a huge nono and something you never do. It's such a common no no that's included in the steps re grievance counselling and helping young kids and Teens during a loss in the family.

Bruce's actions is emotional Abuse and deliberate scapegoating. There's no beating about the bush on that.

Tim seemly interrupted Babs who was about to correct Jason. He was correct in stepping in to calm tempers but he also was the mitigating factor in Damian walking away without knowing the truth.

Not to mention that at 16 he should know that he doesn't have the skills to help Bruce. He didn''t when he lost his son and he wouldn't now that he's lost his father. Not to mention that in Rebirth Tec we learnt that Tim becoming Robin wasn't because he wanted to help but because he wanted to impress Bruce nothing to do with helping.

Tim's words only makes it wore for Bruce and also makes Tim look arrogant and callous.

Babs shouldn't and Shouted and Jason coming down on Richard for no reason. 
All of them were bad and makes therm look nasty, petty and cruel.

Yes and Tomasi wrote Bruce willing to force Jason through a traumatic event because he wants to bring his [blood] son back. That's not letting Damian take the fall fo Alfred but it's very very bad and abusive. It up there.

Just because it's hard to damage the Batman brand doesn't mean writers should be allowed to try. The increase in the number of fans whop hate the family that leeches of him is growing. Batman fans don't like it. I don't like it since it makes a serious matter not so serious.

Batman might be Teflon but his family isn't. Batman as a family man is just all negative now. The writers didn't have to go to the new low of Bruce and co being Arseholes and letting Damian take the fall. Jason's line didn't have to be assigning blame but they choose to and I'm not sure they follow up.

I'm sure I never said I wanted bruce to be any sort of dad in this good or bad. That's not what we are debating here we are talking about how they were all bad and I felt the issue was bad. 

Bruce didn;t have to be a dad in this it should have just focused on Alfred.
I'm not saying that Bruce's action should be ignored but it should be dealt with as an arc not a single story which is setting up another story [Joker Wars]

The fact that I know that Joker Wars requires Bruce to be isolated.
The fact that both Tynion and Tomasi have written abusive Bruce
The fact that Tynions batman has no place for the family and is focused on Bruce rebuilding Gotham with Selina
All these and Dc's past record indicate that this is another hollow face off. They didn't address anything and Bruce isn't about the change in anyway. 
That is my problem.

----------


## dietrich

> Hi!
> If I remember correctly Bruce will be around 60 yo... Considering  that now he is approx. in early-mid forties (38-45yo I think) and now Damian is 13... I would say he will be at early-mid 20s.... 
> (Approx. 23-25)... There was an article about 5G in general.... 
> You should search it up for more accurate information! 
> 
> Edit: This is the answer for someone that asked about ages... I clicked "reply" on the post, but something went wrong...


That's not right since we don't have when Bruc e was born

Damian we have when he was born on the new time line. Damian this summer according to the new Time line is going to be 13 if 5g is 6years in the future then he'll be 19

It's important to remember with 5g that we don't have full info. Dc itself doesn't have full details but Damian is the character whose entire life cycle and age can be and has been mapped

----------


## dietrich

> It was bad Alfred was the one who soothed a lot of Batfamily's emotional issues between them and Bruce and he wasn't that retired superspy, that was only a little part of him and honestly the less important one. Barbara and Damian are what co-workers, they don't have a personnel , she pointed out at Bruce his responsabilities with him, she did more than enough. 
> 
> Tomasi always tries to make look Damian better at the expense of other characters, this case at Jason's, anyway, did someone tell him Damian's actions were part of Bruce's 'fantastic' plan? If they had told him, he'd blame Bruce; however, Damian and him doesn't have a real relationship right now, after all Damian accused him of trying to kill the teen titans and of being Leviathan... Comfort will never come from him to Damian. 
> 
> Tim and Damian have never got along and don't like each other, it's understandable, Damian has tried to kill him and Tim's reactions are normal. Damian isn't that physically  violent with him but it's still a jerk and Tim isn't emotionally mature, in fact he's  bitchildish in that aspect and thatÂs normal, he's 16 years old  (until canon states otherwise), They have a bad and toxic relationship defined by negative things, they never do heart-to-heart. Moreover, it's unclear if they are brothers, I mean it's implied Tim was adopted by Bruce here, his original origin story is back, Jack Drake is dead, his home is Wayne Manor but it isn't confirmed, maybe he's only Bruce's ward so there is less of familial obligation to try to help Damian.
> 
> In fact, Damian only 'brother' is Dick, even if Dick is only Bruce's ward in Rebirth, and Dick has never had a good relationship with Jason, before his death it was less bad but not really close and Dick and Tim were good brothers, Dick was the supportive and reliable and Tim had a lot of admiration for him, but since New 52 they are friendly to each other and co-workers, I mean when Tim 'died' and Dick was like 'it was a good guy with a great future ahead'... Tim and Jason don't have a relationship save this weird pairing the spares in New 52 and in Rebirth they don't interact.
> 
> Current batbrothers aren't really brothers, and they are part of a dysfunctional family but the big difference with other families like them it's at the end of the day they fight but 'ohh look at them they love each other' but with the current batbrothers that doesn't happen, they are loyal to the mission and to each other (sometimes) but it's not due to love between them, in fact it's more due to their feelings towards Bruce than what they feel for each other save Damian and Dick.


What are you talking about?

No one needed to make Damian look better. He and Alfred are the victim's here. They were the victims since Batman 77

Jason did not have to blame anyone. Jason in a situation like this wouldn't be pointing fingers he would be grieving Alfred.

Damian and Jason have had worse and yet both have rushed in to risk their lives for each other. Tim and Damian have both tried to kill each other. Tim even tried to kill Damian after Damien had saved his life  from Jason. In Rebirth Tim is all friendly towards Damian [was he lying] but the fact still remains that despite their antagonistic feelings these people aren't you. They are good people and heroes. No one and i mean no one who has any bit of kindness lets a 13yr old believe they are responsible for the death of the head of their family.

Damian didn't need to look good here since he was already looking spectacular. He went in to face up against 3 heavies who took down Batman. Alone, took down GG, engaged Thomas, managed to get captured as instructed, witnessed the traumatising moment of Alfred's death, yet was able to solider on face Thomas , get free and let the rest 
if the family in as instructed.

Damian is a champion. He went into this looking good there was no need to make him look good [such a petty thought]

I'm not a Tim fan but even I have argue that Tim isn't the person you are presenting him as. Tim is bruce's Ward according to Rebirth Tec but that shouldn't/wouldn't matter. Hero's and good people save and care for people who aren't family. Damian has given his life twice for people he didn't know.

They fight to save people who try to kill them [Bruce once revived the Joker] They are supposed to be good people and heroes. The idea that Tim wouldn't help because he's not a Wayne or because Damian attacked him due to standard LOA ways which Tim himself was aware of leads me to believe that you need more reading on these characters.

family has nothing to do with having basic human compassion 
Family has nothing to do with seeing an injustice and looking the other way. Even if they are bad people like you present they are still heroes and heroes set things straight.
heroes tell the truth so however you look at it they were wrong.

----------


## adrikito

> From what I can tell, they're not gonna bring Djinn back and the team keeps going after Damian leaves. So with my two favorites gone, there's not really gonna be anything keeping me around once Glass is done.


No Damian and not Djinn? I am out after lose them.

----------


## Katana500

> No Damian and not Djinn? I am out after lose them.


Djinn might just not be on the cover since they don't want to spoil her coming back.

----------


## dietrich

Inspired by Batman and Robin Eternal

----------


## dietrich



----------


## dietrich

https://nicknaysayer.tumblr.com

----------


## dietrich

Dick and Damian



https://allyallyorange.tumblr.com





https://dreamer-247re.tumblr.com




https://dklem.tumblr.com

----------


## dietrich

https://twitter.com/02png

----------


## dietrich

https://twitter.com/akamayura





https://twitter.com/Bonanza_Nuts

----------


## dietrich

https://twitter.com/CalvilArt

----------


## CPSparkles

> https://twitter.com/02png


Thanks for all the Amazing Damian Art.

This Artist does a really good Adult Damian.

----------


## dietrich

> Thanks for all the Amazing Damian Art.
> 
> This Artist does a really good Adult Damian.


Agreed. Their version of older Damian is one of my favourite interpretations.

----------


## Digifiend

> 


Who is that?

----------


## Blue22

I assumed it was Harper Row

----------


## dietrich

> I assumed it was Harper Row





> Who is that?


It's Harper Row.

----------


## dietrich

Some more of Doc Squash's brilliant Damian/Batfamily mini comics.

The celebrated artist has such a distinct style. I love these comics and I love that he gets Damian so much.









https://doc-squash.tumblr.com

----------


## dietrich

https://doc-squash.tumblr.com

----------


## dietrich

Written and Directed by Jason Todd 

Batman -Dick Grayson
Joker - Tim Drake
Robin - Damian Wayne

Audience
Bruce Wayne - Himself
Jason Todd -Himself










https://doc-squash.tumblr.com

----------


## adrikito

Damian probably revealed today in the LAST PAGE the reason because one of them will not return..

*spoilers:*
Djinn is in the purgatory. To save her... THEY SHOULD DIE
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Yennefer

> Damian probably revealed today in the LAST PAGE the reason because one of them will not return..
> 
> *spoilers:*
> Djinn is in the purgatory. To save her... THEY SHOULD DIE
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
 I bet one of them: Djinn, Roundhouse, Crush 
*end of spoilers*

Just tell me Damian will kiss the girl...........

----------


## adrikito

> *spoilers:*
>  I bet one of them: Djinn, Roundhouse, Crush 
> *end of spoilers*
> 
> Just tell me Damian will kiss the girl...........


I would like it but I doubt that he will be as lucky as that..  :Frown: 


Probably one of Glass characters.. I hope that not Djinn.. 

They should be successful SAVING HER.. This quest is for that.

----------


## Katana500

> I would like it but I doubt that he will be as lucky as that.. 
> 
> 
> Probably one of Glass characters.. I hope that not Djinn.. 
> 
> They should be successful SAVING HER.. This quest is for that.


'

My prediction:

The team kill themselves to enter hell and then purgatory and succeed in rescuing Djinn. But for whatever reason either something will go wrong or Damian will sacrifice himself - resulting in him being stuck.

Djinn will then sacrifice herself to bring him back - which will probably contribute to him quitting as Robin. Im not sure if Djinn will end up actually stuck or if the team will just think she is. But I wouldn't be suprised if Damian came back with a new identity and Djinn returns before the run rounds up.

----------


## Yennefer

> '
> 
> My prediction:
> 
> The team kill themselves to enter hell and then purgatory and succeed in rescuing Djinn. But for whatever reason either something will go wrong or Damian will sacrifice himself - resulting in him being stuck.
> 
> Djinn will then sacrifice herself to bring him back - which will probably contribute to him quitting as Robin. Im not sure if Djinn will end up actually stuck or if the team will just think she is. But I wouldn't be suprised if Damian came back with a new identity and Djinn returns before the run rounds up.


Nice one!!! It makes sense in a way... Though I don't know if they have the time to develop something like this in 3 issues...... :/

----------


## Yennefer

Also, sorry to post this out of the blue:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pol...dc-comics-baby

I am furious.... I feel like King is an obsessive shipper writing romantic fanfictions with characters being out of character.
It's like the whole family is a weight that doesn't let this "happy family dream" plot develop, so they do everything to get them out of the way.
Bruce, as said, is both abusive and absent. A really bad father in rebirth. And they create another child for him. 
And how it goes? Because it will be the love - baby with the love of his life, he will be loving, caring etc.... 
I mean... How do you have another child, when you are emotionally unable to love and care for your already existing ones?
It. doesn't. make. sense.....
They made Selina the start and the end of the world and it is infuriating. This guy made me hate this ship, literally.

----------


## Ansa

> Also, sorry to post this out of the blue:
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pol...dc-comics-baby
> 
> I am furious.... I feel like King is an obsessive shipper writing romantic fanfictions with characters being out of character.
> It's like the whole family is a weight that doesn't let this "happy family dream" plot develop, so they do everything to get them out of the way.
> Bruce, as said, is both abusive and absent. A really bad father in rebirth. And they create another child for him. 
> And how it goes? Because it will be the love - baby with the love of his life, he will be loving, caring etc.... 
> I mean... How do you have another child, when you are emotionally unable to love and care your already existing ones?
> It. doesn't. make. sense.....
> They made Selina the start and the end of the world and it is infuriating. This guy made me hate this ship, literally.


If it is any comfort to you, I'm 99% sure this is only for King's non-canon story. The future of Batman is officially in Tynion's hands now and so far it looks like he is working on breaking them up.

----------


## Ansa

But yeah, don't expect good batfamily content from King, he made it clear what his priorities are.

----------


## Yennefer

King is just a bad writer. 
And I do hope they break up. 
I m not accepting any new bat babies, till the existing ones are okay again....

----------


## Blue22

I don't think King's a bad writer, per se, and I don't think finally going all the way with BatCat after decades of teasing was a bad idea. His Batman run and Heroes in Crisis make me think he's a lot like Bendis. He's a talented guy with good ideas or ideas that at least sound good on paper....but then he completely fumbles the execution.

I'm still in the boat with people who wanna see Helena. Even if we don't get to have her really do anything until years down the line. Just having her exist is enough for me right now.

----------


## Dazai_Osamu

Honestly I thought Damian would be fired by Bruce because his Gulag (his inhuman prison) and the brainwashing thing which is worse than his private prison, but if he quitted as Robin as a kind of atonement, it'd be a bit cheesy but acceptable. I thought the former would be more fitting with the 5G idea, like Dick doesn't want to be Batman, and neither does Tim, Jason isn't an option and if Damian were fired, he wouldn't either so this way Luke Fox can ascend as the Dark Knight.

----------


## Ansa

> Honestly I thought Damian would be fired by Bruce because his Gulag (his inhuman prison) and the brainwashing thing which is worse than his private prison, but if he quitted as Robin as a kind of atonement, it'd be a bit cheesy but acceptable. I thought the former would be more fitting with the 5G idea, like Dick doesn't want to be Batman, and neither does Tim, Jason isn't an option and if Damian were fired, he wouldn't either so this way Luke Fox can ascend as the Dark Knight.


The problem with Bruce firing Damian lies with Bruce doing so much shady stuff himself, including secret prisons, lies and torture. And Bruce's actions caused way more damage. In my eyes he doesn't really have the right to punish Damian, especially because he failed him as a father and mentor.

----------


## Ansa

> I don't think King's a bad writer, per se, and I don't think finally going all the way with BatCat after decades of teasing was a bad idea. His Batman run and Heroes in Crisis make me think he's a lot like Bendis. He's a talented guy with good ideas or ideas that at least sound good on paper....but then he completely fumbles the execution.
> 
> I'm still in the boat with people who wanna see Helena. Even if we don't get to have her really do anything until years down the line. Just having her exist is enough for me right now.


Nah, sorry. I don't want to see her. I just want batcat and everything about it gone at this point.

----------


## Dazai_Osamu

> The problem with Bruce firing Damian lies with Bruce doing so much shady stuff himself, including secret prisons, lies and torture. And Bruce's actions caused way more damage. In my eyes he doesn't really have the right to punish Damian, especially because he failed him as a father and mentor.


That's a common fallacy called the appeal to hypocresy and it's about someone who intends to discredit an argument because a hypocrite is making it but the moral character or actions of the speaker aren't relevant to the logic of the argument I mean this: Bruce is a hypocrite and has failed as mentor but Damian's actions were terrible, inhuman, illegal  and deserving of consequences and Robin is Batman's sidekick so even with all his BS Bruce has the right to take Robin away and honestly it's a pretty minor punishment,  I mean he should face the law but he wouldn't and in Rebirth they don't really work as the dynamic duo, it could be better for Damian to follow his own path instead of Batman or Al Ghul's way.

----------


## Ansa

> That's a common fallacy called the appeal to hypocresy and it's about someone who intends to discredit an argument because a hypocrite is making it but the moral character or actions of the speaker aren't relevant to the logic of the argument I mean this: Bruce is a hypocrite and has failed as mentor but Damian's actions were terrible, inhuman, illegal  and deserving of consequences and Robin is Batman's sidekick so even with all his BS Bruce has the right to take Robin away and honestly it's a pretty minor punishment,  I mean he should face the law but he wouldn't and in Rebirth they don't really work as the dynamic duo, it could be better for Damian to follow his own path instead of Batman or Al Ghul's way.


...did I ever say Damian shouldn't be punished? Calm down.
I just think Bruce doesn't have the right to fire him, unless he looks at his own actions and decides to retire. And I will stand by that.

And I don't know where you're coming from, but where I'm from the parent is responsible for his children. So yeah, I'm blaming Bruce for failing to look after his minor child.

----------


## dietrich

> Honestly I thought Damian would be fired by Bruce because his Gulag (his inhuman prison) and the brainwashing thing which is worse than his private prison, but if he quitted as Robin as a kind of atonement, it'd be a bit cheesy but acceptable. I thought the former would be more fitting with the 5G idea, like Dick doesn't want to be Batman, and neither does Tim, Jason isn't an option and if Damian were fired, he wouldn't either so this way Luke Fox can ascend as the Dark Knight.



can i ask did Clark and the rest of the league resign when they were brainwashing people including heroes?
batman has two Jails and has had for the longest time. It's standard bat procedure.
We've seen Alfred torture and mock a crying Penguin in one of those jails.
 I really would like to answer why when Damian a 13yr old who's still learning follows in the foot steps of these heroes and comes out the other side doing the more heroic thing it's criticised?

Did you forget that those guys did that and still didn't even for a second try to atone? 

i do agree that it seems this whole thing might be to pave the way for 5g 

It was necessary to get rid of Dick and damian the 2 heirs to the cowl and the 2 who have shown that they can do the job even if Damian's was only for 3 nights.

jason isn't interested
Tim isn't up to the job the last time he tried he lasted all of 10 mins before Damian had to come and save him when Jason left him for dead. not to mention that i don't see Bruce letting Rebirth Tim take over with him being open to working with fascists and his future self being an actual fascist who kills people for things they might do not for actual crimes.

Damian leaving the role presents him in a more favourable light than the adult heroes who have made the same mistake in the past and the ones like Bruce who are so blinded they can't even recognise that they are doing wrong.

Damian unlike Bruce has been shown to question his methods so makes sense


If I was DC I'd have Tim become Robin for Luke Fox.

All Tim ever wanted was to be Robin. Sure he'd be 30+ when 5G rolls around but who cares.

----------


## dietrich

> That's a common fallacy called the appeal to hypocresy and it's about someone who intends to discredit an argument because a hypocrite is making it but the moral character or actions of the speaker aren't relevant to the logic of the argument I mean this: Bruce is a hypocrite and has failed as mentor but Damian's actions were terrible, inhuman, illegal  and deserving of consequences and Robin is Batman's sidekick so even with all his BS Bruce has the right to take Robin away and honestly it's a pretty minor punishment,  I mean he should face the law but he wouldn't and in Rebirth they don't really work as the dynamic duo, it could be better for Damian to follow his own path instead of Batman or Al Ghul's way.


That still doesn't make it invalid. Bruce has no grounds to reprimand Damian since he has always had secret prisons. The Robins who are learning from him are aware of and are often required to engage with said prison and their prisoners. Just like having eyes on everyone AKA Breach/invasion of privacy which is against the law and a common batman method.

Batman and his family do a lot of things that are not right by law or ethically. Which is why Damian isn't the only one of batman's proteges to have an illegal jail

Robin is the protege and Batman is the mentor so the mentor can not criticise the protege for following in the the mentors footsteps especially when the protege is one who was raised in an abnormal environment and is used to a different way of life.

Damian is still grappling with unlearning what was his normal eg to ascend one has to kill and drink the blood of the one they wish to usurp.

It normal for parents to arrange for people to kill you
love is conditional
I could go on. The important thing is that Damian unlike Bruce realises that what he's doing isn't right so he give up the mantle. Bruce still doesn't realise that holding people in illegal jails is bad. Hopefully he learns from Damian.

I'm looking forward to seeing how the writers have Bruce handle this in light of how they revealed Damian's prison a few weeks after we saw Alfred taunting Penguin in Bruvce's jail. I don't think he'd have any valid arguments but who knows

Robin has been it's own hero since Carrie Kelly. DC loved Frank Miller's concept so much that they stole the whole thing aside from gender and glasses and used it for Tim. Selling him as the 1st solo Robin.

Sadly DC and writers are too wrapped up in legacy when it comes to Damian. Wayne, Al Ghul and in Rebirth He's also now the heir to Nightwing.

And don't get me started on the whole Deathstroke wants Robin that Priest started.

I guess the pros are that writers are very interested and are expanding his ties even if it's still legacy related. I don't know what's better but I know that a lot of writers are interested in his character from a legacy point of view [9 have written legacy type stories with him outside of his regular series like TT,SS and outside of the main Batman books since Rebirth]
So long as we keep getting interesting stories that grow his character then It's cool.

----------


## Fergus

What's this? Damian gave up Robin as punishment for his mistake? That's quite the evolution for the Character.

I hope it's just for 5G I like Damian as Robin. Jarro is sweet but Damian is just Robin.

----------


## Fergus

> That still doesn't make it invalid. Bruce has no grounds to reprimand Damian since he has always had secret prisons. The Robins who are learning from him are aware of and are often required to engage with said prison and their prisoners. Just like having eyes on everyone AKA Breach/invasion of privacy which is against the law and a common batman method.
> 
> Batman and his family do a lot of things that are not right by law or ethically. Which is why Damian isn't the only one of batman's proteges to have an illegal jail
> 
> Robin is the protege and Batman is the mentor so the mentor can not criticise the protege for following in the the mentors footsteps especially when the protege is one who was raised in an abnormal environment and is used to a different way of life.
> 
> Damian is still grappling with unlearning what was his normal eg to ascend one has to kill and drink the blood of the one they wish to usurp.
> 
> It normal for parents to arrange for people to kill you
> ...


I wonder we don't talk more about Tim being a Carrie rip off. I think that ASBaR turned out how it did because Miller was upset with DC ripping him off and because they corrupted his concept.

Old out of date Bruce needing Carrie made sense, A father grieving his child needing a random stranger doesn't make sense in particular when he had another son still living.

----------


## Ansa

> What's this? Damian gave up Robin as punishment for his mistake? That's quite the evolution for the Character.
> 
> I hope it's just for 5G I like Damian as Robin. Jarro is sweet but Damian is just Robin.


We don't know how it's going to happen yet, we're just speculating. At least I am, maybe someone else knows more.
Damian giving up the mantle voluntarily and choosing to take responsibility sounds better than getting fired by a guy who failed him as a mentor and role model.

----------


## Dazai_Osamu

> can i ask did Clark and the rest of the league resign when they were brainwashing people including heroes?
> batman has two Jails and has had for the longest time. It's standard bat procedure.
> We've seen Alfred torture and mock a crying Penguin in one of those jails.
>  I really would like to answer why when Damian a 13yr old who's still learning follows in the foot steps of these heroes and comes out the other side doing the more heroic thing it's criticised?
> 
> Did you forget that those guys did that and still didn't even for a second try to atone? 
> 
> i do agree that it seems this whole thing might be to pave the way for 5g 
> 
> ...


Number one, being crítical of Damian it isn't an  excuse for the heroes who brainwashed other heroes, even if DC treated the failed brainwashing as enough punishment, and all their other illegal actions more or less are ignored at the end of the day, DC doesn't go deeper in that possible plot and I think the reason is many heroes would end up as huge hypocrites it'd be like 'I'm a hero and I've won and as enforcement agencies and correction departments are useless I'll punish the villains as I see fit'. Bruce and his illegal prison and torture as a method of gaining info should be adressed in universe, in fact,  this would be a good point for Damian the 'you're firing me but you the same, you are worse because you grew up knowing what’s acceptable in society and the value of human rights.

Battle for the cowl was a mess Jason was super crazy in a too convenient way, Dick was acting as he didn't remember what had happened with Bat Azrael and Tim had the idiot ball for most of that arc.

Tim shouldn't be Batman, him as future Batman ended up as well-intentioned extremist or a fascist, and as you said  someone should remember he only wanted to be Robin, Damian future as Batman it isn't that good, he'll burn half of Gotham or  sell his soul because he isn't as good as Dick or Bruce or he'll quit and become the new Demon head a lot less crazy than his grandfather or with a lot less Lazarus pit baths.

At this point I wouldn't be surprise if Tim and Damian end up being the same age, after all they had a 7 years gap before Flashpoint and now it's 3 years gap.

Maybe Luke Fox as Batman will be like Bat Azrael version 2.0

----------


## Blue22

I got a Maya related question after reading the first half of RSOB


Maya and Damian temporarily parted ways and she apparently went to look for her mother. Did she ever mention whether or not she found her?

----------


## Dazai_Osamu

> That still doesn't make it invalid. Bruce has no grounds to reprimand Damian since he has always had secret prisons. The Robins who are learning from him are aware of and are often required to engage with said prison and their prisoners. Just like having eyes on everyone AKA Breach/invasion of privacy which is against the law and a common batman method.
> 
> Batman and his family do a lot of things that are not right by law or ethically. Which is why Damian isn't the only one of batman's proteges to have an illegal jail
> 
> Robin is the protege and Batman is the mentor so the mentor can not criticise the protege for following in the the mentors footsteps especially when the protege is one who was raised in an abnormal environment and is used to a different way of life.


The argument isn't invalid because  Batman is a hypocrite jerk, Bruce would look worse if he made it and Damian could call him  out but the argument about the inhuman, degrading and illegal actions stands. Personally I don't see it happening, Damian won't be punished by his Gulag nor his brainwashing, too troublesome to deal with that with DC current writers, the only way I see Damian being punished it'd be if his actions were publicly exposed, in this case Batman would tell him something about his illegal actions but not because they are immoral and a violation of human rights, he'd be punished because he gave bad publicity to the superhero community, the Justice League and Batman.

Batman as a jerk is his default characterization since the 90’s so being a jerk one more time wouldn't be surprising, maybe he'll be a better father with his son/daughter with Selina.

----------


## Arctic Cyclist

> I got a Maya related question after reading the first half of RSOB
> 
> 
> Maya and Damian temporarily parted ways and she apparently went to look for her mother. Did she ever mention whether or not she found her?


Yes. However, her mother lives in League of Assassins territory (which is basically everywhere not supervised by heroes), as Talia helpfully pointed out when accusing Maya of supporting Den Durga. Add in that Maya doesn't know her mom, and most people aren't prepared to suddenly have a teenager show up, especially one as independent and self sufficient as Maya, and you have a recipe for a dead at the start relationship.

Maya now lives with the Bizarro Boys and apparently, according to the Terrifics, is having all sorts of cool, dimensional and planet hopping adventures we don't get to read about because DC doesn't like being profitable and selling stories people of all ages and genders want to read.

----------


## Blue22

> Yes. However, her mother lives in League of Assassins territory (which is basically everywhere not supervised by heroes), as Talia helpfully pointed out when accusing Maya of supporting Den Durga. Add in that Maya doesn't know her mom, and most people aren't prepared to suddenly have a teenager show up, especially one as independent and self sufficient as Maya, and you have a recipe for a dead at the start relationship.


Thanks. Normally I'd say that I don't know how I missed all that the first time I went through this series. But I vividly remember starting to lose interest after Issue 6, which felt like the better stopping point to me.




> Maya now lives with the Bizarro Boys and apparently, according to the Terrifics, is having all sorts of cool, dimensional and planet hopping adventures we don't get to read about because DC doesn't like being profitable and selling stories people of all ages and genders want to read.


Yeah as much as I don't like the Bizzaro Boys (at least not enough to read a whole series with them in it), I like Maya enough to financially support anything she's a part of lol

I still think it would have been cool to see her on Birds of Prey or Outsiders.

----------


## RLV_1996

I apologize, I was reading this thread for a long time, but I suddenly felt that some things by Dazai_Osamu needed to be adressed. 




> The argument isn't invalid because  Batman is a hypocrite jerk, Bruce would look worse if he made it and Damian could call him  out but the argument about the inhuman, degrading and illegal actions stands. Personally I don't see it happening, Damian won't be punished by his Gulag nor his brainwashing, too troublesome to deal with that with DC current writers, the only way I see Damian being punished it'd be if his actions were publicly exposed, in this case Batman would tell him something about his illegal actions but not because they are immoral and a violation of human rights, he'd be punished because he gave bad publicity to the superhero community, the Justice League and Batman.
> 
> Batman as a jerk is his default characterization since the 90’s so being a jerk one more time wouldn't be surprising, maybe he'll be a better father with his son/daughter with Selina.



First of all, I need to adress how you use the obvious manipulation, by calling this certainly illegal by real world standarts detention facility (or prison) as "Gulag". Please, google what Gulag is. You obviously use this termine to show how "inhumane" are Damian's actions. But Gulags are *labour* camps. And they were so notorious precisely becasue of insane amount of labour that prisoners needed to do there. IT simply does not suit Damian's prison.

Secondly, to explain how Damian should "face the consequences" no matter hypocrisy, you ignore the key fallacy there - you substitude concepts of how law, justice and morality works in *our, real world* and *DC world*. As dietrich said, heroes in DC world exercice things that in real world would make them "face the law" (even Superman and his Phantom Zone - how it is different??). Even DC government, body of law you might say, has freaking Suicide Squad and can't do a thing over 1000+ serial killers and psychos in Gotham, - not very lawful, realistic and straight-forward. What you said would hold if this happened in real life, but it is not out of ordianry in DC, so what "bad publicity" Damian gave to superheroes again? And who can judge such cases of superheros in DC world? It's like famous killer judging you and putting you in jail for armed assault, both government and adult superheroes are losing their legitimacy to judge in this questions, if you take all facts.

And I don't understand your very harsh judgement of Damian from moral point of view in this case, as he was not holding bank robbers or petty thiefs there, he got Deathstroke and Black mask - serial killers, pretty much undetainable by common justice system of DC world. I personally see this as a Damian  trying to reach next step in progression, as previously he just preferred to eliminate the threat, but going in the wrong direction without proper guidance. Now, kid is trying hard to reach new moral hights, struggling, while criminals and killers who he could stop with one swift movement of his blade run around and murder people. Batman would certainly recognize that in his own blood son, if he was written by competent writer, as he faced this struggle on his own.

But I would agree that, of course, Damian is bad, bad boy and heed go to good, good court and face jutstice, if he suddenly teleported to our world and made that same stuff. But the key point here - is that he is out there, in DC, with morally dubious heroes and governments giving themselves bad publicity every day with their actions.

But I agree, that  Damian definetly needs to faced the consequences from his dad, what he was doing with his prison is just not right. I think, Tomasi's Batman and Robin run did a decent job there, in my opinion, on Batman teaching and parenting Damian, but didn't left Damian off the hook for his actions as well. That Batman would punish Damian not becasue he broke his rules or some code, but becasue he would worry over direction his 13 years old son is going.
But current Batman firing or punishing Damian sounds to me like father, who left his family for his new lover, but suddenly coming back just once and just to go hard on his 13 years old son for being a bully and troubled child in school.

----------


## Digifiend

> Maya now lives with the Bizarro Boys and apparently, according to the Terrifics, is having all sorts of cool, dimensional and planet hopping adventures we don't get to read about because DC doesn't like being profitable and selling stories people of all ages and genders want to read.


Those space adventures would be due to who else lives with them - Beacon, Jon's extraterrestrial former neighbour Kathy. Problem is, _Nobody and Beacon_ would be an untested IP. If only Super Sons was still running (which it likely would've been had Bendis not taken over Superman and aged Jon up), perhaps Jon and Damian would be involved and those stories could've been seen there. Though it might have caused timeline problems for Teen Titans.

----------


## Ansa

> King is just a bad writer. 
> And I do hope they break up. 
> I m not accepting any new bat babies, till the existing ones are okay again....


Same.
All the people who believe Bruce will be a perfect father and her brothers and sisters are all going to adore and cuddle her...do they live in a bubble or something. How heavily tinted are those shipper goggles? Do they even read comics?

This is just King baiting again. His Bruce is terrible. Before his run you could at least say with some confidence that no matter what he did, Bruce still loved his family.
King chose to go with "fuck those child soldiers, the only one Bruce truly loves is Cat." That was the point I decided that Bruce sucks. It was just too much to ignore.
The way Bruce is now he shouldn't have another child. He failed the ones he already has, repair that first.

Thank god DC pulled him from the canon books.

----------


## Korath

> Same.
> All the people who believe Bruce will be a perfect father and her brothers and sisters are all going to adore and cuddle her...do they live in a bubble or something. How heavily tinted are those shipper goggles? Do they even read comics?
> 
> This is just King baiting again. His Bruce is terrible. Before his run you could at least say with some confidence that no matter what he did, Bruce still loved his family.
> King chose to go with "fuck those child soldiers, the only one Bruce truly loves is Cat." That was the point I decided that Bruce sucks. It was just too much to ignore.
> The way Bruce is now he shouldn't have another child. He failed the ones he already has, repair that first.
> 
> Thank god DC pulled him from the canon books.


Even if he got another child, being tender and loving with her will be worst. Because the message will be that orphans and even bastard children can't ever be real family or something like that. And I find it absolutely horrible. But King's Batman is horrible, once you reach issue 50. He was interesting before that, but then it has been an absolute horror show. And the same is true for Catwoman.

I really hope his Bat/Cat will flop, whenever it comes out. I don't want it to sell in the range of White Knight, which does everything King wanted to do, but far better.

----------


## Katana500

> Those space adventures would be due to who else lives with them - Beacon, Jon's extraterrestrial former neighbour Kathy. Problem is, _Nobody and Beacon_ would be an untested IP. If only Super Sons was still running (which it likely would've been had Bendis not taken over Superman and aged Jon up), perhaps Jon and Damian would be involved and those stories could've been seen there. Though it might have caused timeline problems for Teen Titans.


Honestly Supersons + Beacon and Nobody would have made such a good book! It would make an awesome TV Show too!

----------


## Ansa

> If it is any comfort to you, I'm 99% sure this is only for King's non-canon story. The future of Batman is officially in Tynion's hands now and so far it looks like he is working on breaking them up.


I had forgotten where he said it, but I found the interview: https://www.google.com/amp/s/ew.com/...-catwoman/amp/ It's from December.

"It’s fair to say that on some level I am kind of done with Batman. The Batman that will exist now will be James’ Batman, not mine. If you want good Batman, read James Tynion and Tony Daniel, because it’s gonna be awesome. That’s where the story goes. What I have to say about the characters, I’ve said it. If you read this 85-issue story and never pick up Batman/Catwoman, you’ll still get my version of Batman."

He also claimed that you don't need to read his run to understand Batman and Catwoman.

The stories in the anniversary issues for Robin, Catwoman, Joker etc. are also not canon, because that stuff is never canon.
The Catwoman book comes out in April and nothing in Tynion's book looks like it will tie-in with King's stuff. Quite the contrary honestly.

So yeah, it's just shipper bait.

----------


## Yennefer

> I had forgotten where he said it, but I found the interview: https://www.google.com/amp/s/ew.com/...-catwoman/amp/ It's from December.
> 
> "It’s fair to say that on some level I am kind of done with Batman. The Batman that will exist now will be James’ Batman, not mine. If you want good Batman, read James Tynion and Tony Daniel, because it’s gonna be awesome. That’s where the story goes. What I have to say about the characters, I’ve said it. If you read this 85-issue story and never pick up Batman/Catwoman, you’ll still get my version of Batman."
> 
> He also claimed that you don't need to read his run to understand Batman and Catwoman.
> 
> The stories in the anniversary issues for Robin, Catwoman, Joker etc. are also not canon, because that stuff is never canon.
> The Catwoman book comes out in April and nothing in Tynion's book looks like it will tie-in with King's stuff. Quite the contrary honestly.
> 
> So yeah, it's just shipper bait.


I disagree... A little bit....
Whatever Cat has done, while she was in her classic villain mode and, I suspect, during a period that Bruce was away, is lesser than a baby.
I mean...
Him wanting to marry her.
Him forgiving her when she returned.
Her helping him recover, win bane and Thomas and prevail in Gotham.
Her supporting him and be out protecting the streets while he is elsewhere...
They have developed an extremely close bond. 
Even if the deal she made gets to damage their connection (and again, not much), he will accept her back, once with the baby.
What I want to say is that Tynion trying to break them up should be our criteria for deciding whether Helena will be canon or not...and neither their break up, given that they have already slept numerous times together....
How do we know that tynion won't get Helena in his run for his own reasons?

----------


## Yennefer

> Even if he got another child, being tender and loving with her will be worst. Because the message will be that orphans and even bastard children can't ever be real family or something like that. And I find it absolutely horrible. But King's Batman is horrible, once you reach issue 50. He was interesting before that, but then it has been an absolute horror show. And the same is true for Catwoman.
> 
> I really hope his Bat/Cat will flop, whenever it comes out. I don't want it to sell in the range of White Knight, which does everything King wanted to do, but far better.


Deep. But true. Let's hope DC doesn't want that....

----------


## Ansa

> I disagree... A little bit....
> Whatever Cat has done, while she was in her classic villain mode and, I suspect, during a period that Bruce was away, is lesser than a baby.
> I mean...
> Him wanting to marry her.
> Him forgiving her when she returned.
> Her helping him recover, win bane and Thomas and prevail in Gotham.
> Her supporting him and be out protecting the streets while he is elsewhere...
> They have developed an extremely close bond. 
> Even if the deal she made gets to damage their connection (and again, not much), he will accept her back, once with the baby.
> ...


The vibe I got from Tynion's run so far is that he's not interested in writing Bruce and Selina as a married couple. That was King's thing. Neither Tynion nor Tomasi have Selina living with Bruce or anything like that.
One of the first things Tynion did was to remind us that Selina used to be a serious criminal and that her past comes back to haunt her. Her relationship with Bruce is shown to be fragile.
Selina isn't demonized or anything, but it's not the glorification we got from King. Selina wanted to hide her past with the Designer from Bruce at first before she realized she had to tell him and Penguin got to Bruce first. Then he got to Riddler's hideout first, where she showed up calling for "Eddie". Think of that what you will.
Solicitations and covers are building up to the Joker War and hint at a breakup, Bruce will have to face the Joker alone. I don't see Tynion squeezing Helena into that story.

The line in Pennyworth RIP from Barbara about Bruce taking a vacation to the beach and getting Alfred killed also makes me believe that Tynion and Tomasi had...thoughts about King's anime beach episode. Pennyworth RIP isn't that kind to King's Batman in general tbh.

Selina's own book still takes place in the time before she brought Bruce to Paris and the solicitations for May that are about a story set after City of Bane have her pulling heists again. Selina seems to be back to doing what she loves.

And if DC planned to introduce a baby Helena into main continuity soon they wouldn't let King announce it just like that via a pic on twitter. Either hints come from Tynion or Tomasi or it doesn't matter.

----------


## Ansa

> Deep. But true. Let's hope DC doesn't want that....


I mean...love it or hate it, but Pennyworth RIP made it pretty clear that right now Tynion and Tomasi think that what Bruce has done to his family since Rebirth makes him a bad father and leader. And they are on the main books.
I don't see them introducing Helena to change that. They made it clear the responsibility falls on Bruce. He has to fix his relationship with them and make an effort. Bruce being a good father to a new baby isn't a solution to the conflicts they introduced.

----------


## RLV_1996

> I mean...love it or hate it, but Pennyworth RIP made it pretty clear that right now Tynion and Tomasi think that what Bruce has done to his family since Rebirth makes him a bad father and leader. And they are on the main books.
> I don't see them introducing Helena to change that. They made it clear the responsibility falls on Bruce. He has to fix his relationship with them and make an effort. Bruce being a good father to a new baby isn't a solution to the conflicts they introduced.


I would love to see Helena Wayne come to canon. But I personally think, Tynion and Tomasi made a correct judgement of current Bruce character. Considering his negligence of his wards and teenage son, plus his personal emotional issues, lack of empathy, poor judgement, short temper and ect - I afraid he would do a worse job with Helena than even Talia did with Damian. 

Sure, not  all of Bruce’s current character flaws are Tom King’s doing. But he set the trend in main books and seems very proud of it.
I personally can’t stand what he did with Thomas Wayne, for cheap drama. That’s what you would call character assassination.

----------


## AmiMizuno

I have heard they are making Helena cannon. 

In terms of the Batfam who is Damian most close to? I notice that he at times he isn’t close to his father?

----------


## RLV_1996

> I have heard they are making Helena cannon. 
> 
> In terms of the Batfam who is Damian most close to? I notice that he at times he isn’t close to his father?


I would say Damian is closest to Nightwing, because Dick brought the best in Damian during his run as Batman.

But Damian was actually starting to get along with Bruce as well, before rebirth. They were still on decent ground during Super-sons, but then multiple dramas started to happen non-stop, without authors willing to write Bruce and Damian actually talking to each other in any issue. So, they kinda drifted apart, from what I’ve got. 

Now we have another drama with Damian and his prisons.

----------


## Yennefer

> The vibe I got from Tynion's run so far is that he's not interested in writing Bruce and Selina as a married couple. That was King's thing. Neither Tynion nor Tomasi have Selina living with Bruce or anything like that.
> One of the first things Tynion did was to remind us that Selina used to be a serious criminal and that her past comes back to haunt her. Her relationship with Bruce is shown to be fragile.
> Selina isn't demonized or anything, but it's not the glorification we got from King. Selina wanted to hide her past with the Designer from Bruce at first before she realized she had to tell him and Penguin got to Bruce first. Then he got to Riddler's hideout first, where she showed up calling for "Eddie". Think of that what you will.
> Solicitations and covers are building up to the Joker War and hint at a breakup, Bruce will have to face the Joker alone. I don't see Tynion squeezing Helena into that story.
> 
> The line in Pennyworth RIP from Barbara about Bruce taking a vacation to the beach and getting Alfred killed also makes me believe that Tynion and Tomasi had...thoughts about King's anime beach episode. Pennyworth RIP isn't that kind to King's Batman in general tbh.
> 
> Selina's own book still takes place in the time before she brought Bruce to Paris and the solicitations for May that are about a story set after City of Bane have her pulling heists again. Selina seems to be back to doing what she loves.
> 
> And if DC planned to introduce a baby Helena into main continuity soon they wouldn't let King announce it just like that via a pic on twitter. Either hints come from Tynion or Tomasi or it doesn't matter.


Yes! This is the reassurance I was looking for!!!  :Big Grin:  :P

----------


## Yennefer

> I would say Damian is closest to Nightwing, because Dick brought the best in Damian during his run as Batman.
> 
> But Damian was actually starting to get along with Bruce as well, before rebirth. They were still on decent ground during Super-sons, but then multiple dramas started to happen non-stop, without authors willing to write Bruce and Damian actually talking to each other in any issue. So, they kinda drifted apart, from what I’ve got. 
> 
> Now we have another drama with Damian and his prisons.


Thomas was they key in making Bruce forget Batman. Not Selina.... His character was a great chance for the character development of the whole batfam. THIS would made interesting and profitable comics, cause we would see so many dynamics between characters... Imagine how Thomas and Damian would interact and how this man -who shaped Bruce at some grade- would affect his personality AND development.

So yeah, I totally agree with you!

----------


## Ansa

> Yes! This is the reassurance I was looking for!!!  :P


Honestly, if DC was that committed to making them a lasting thing they wouldn't have pulled King from the book. Them not getting legally married in Batman #85 was already a strong hint that DC wants to keep the option to get rid of them pretty quickly if they feel like it.

----------


## Ansa

> Thomas was they key in making Bruce forget Batman. Not Selina.... His character was a great chance for the character development of the whole batfam. THIS would made interesting and profitable comics, cause we would see so many dynamics between characters... Imagine how Thomas and Damian would interact and how this man -who shaped Bruce at some grade- would affect his personality AND development.
> 
> So yeah, I totally agree with you!


The potential for Flashpoint Batman in the main universe was really wasted in King's run.

----------


## RLV_1996

> Thomas was they key in making Bruce forget Batman. Not Selina.... His character was a great chance for the character development of the whole batfam. THIS would made interesting and profitable comics, cause we would see so many dynamics between characters... Imagine how Thomas and Damian would interact and how this man -who shaped Bruce at some grade- would affect his personality AND development.
> 
> So yeah, I totally agree with you!


Thanks! I was thinking a lot on how characters of Damian and Thomas would interact. And considering how alike Thomas and Damian were in their take on Batman (at least before Tom King run), Thomas should have been much better at understanding his grandson, his emotions and struggles. Maybe, at least as alternative universe story, they meeting each other would have been heartwarming.  :Smile:

----------


## RLV_1996

> The potential for Flashpoint Batman in the main universe was really wasted in King's run.


Yeah, and now all I can think of Flashpoint Batman is him killing old Alf and pointing gun to his grandson’s head..

----------


## AmiMizuno

> I would say Damian is closest to Nightwing, because Dick brought the best in Damian during his run as Batman.
> 
> But Damian was actually starting to get along with Bruce as well, before rebirth. They were still on decent ground during Super-sons, but then multiple dramas started to happen non-stop, without authors willing to write Bruce and Damian actually talking to each other in any issue. So, they kinda drifted apart, from what Ive got. 
> 
> Now we have another drama with Damian and his prisons.



I mean in a weird way I wouldn't mind if Daiman would be more closet to Nightwing than his Dad. In a way Nightwing has always been the big brother/father to many of the Batfam. So while he should be close to Bruce. He is closer to Nightwing

----------


## Blue22

Dick is definitely the Piccolo to Damian's Gohan. I don't mind Damian always being closer with him than he is with Bruce....but I'd still like him and Bruce to be close like they were before. This little falling out they have has been poorly handled in just about every title it's come up in (the ones that remember that the two aren't on these vaguely bad terms). And the closest we've gotten to any explanation for how it started was Bruce forgetting Damian's birthday. 

I just want it to end. As independent as he's always been, forcing drama just to get Damian out of the way is unnecessary.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Dick is definitely the Piccolo to Damian's Gohan. I don't mind Damian always being closer with him than he is with Bruce....but I'd still like him and Bruce to be close like they were before. This little falling out they have has been poorly handled in just about every title it's come up in (the ones that remember that the two aren't on these vaguely bad terms). And the closest we've gotten to any explanation for how it started was Bruce forgetting Damian's birthday. 
> 
> I just want it to end. As independent as he's always been, forcing drama just to get Damian out of the way is unnecessary.


Only difference being that Dick is less tsundere about it then Piccolo. Lol

----------


## RLV_1996

> I mean in a weird way I wouldn't mind if Daiman would be more closet to Nightwing than his Dad. In a way Nightwing has always been the big brother/father to many of the Batfam. So while he should be close to Bruce. He is closer to Nightwing


I agree, it actually makes a lot of sense. In many families with strong patriarchal figure, father is like moral authority, whose heavy presence defines the family itself. Children would certainly love that kind of father, but more there always a distance there, as kids don’t want to disappoint that father figure.

So, connection with older brother/sister/mother allows to vent feelings and to trust with personal issues, with relationship being more relaxed. It’s different kind of love, with stronger ties, where you don’t need to prove anything to anyone. But one relationship in such family does not replace the other. So, from my perspective, batfamily before rebirth was that kind of family.

----------


## RLV_1996

> Dick is definitely the Piccolo to Damian's Gohan. I don't mind Damian always being closer with him than he is with Bruce....but I'd still like him and Bruce to be close like they were before. This little falling out they have has been poorly handled in just about every title it's come up in (the ones that remember that the two aren't on these vaguely bad terms). And the closest we've gotten to any explanation for how it started was Bruce forgetting Damian's birthday. 
> 
> I just want it to end. As independent as he's always been, forcing drama just to get Damian out of the way is unnecessary.


Yes, this constant drama and misery for the sake of some “original” plot of another genius author is just really emotionally  exhausting to read..

----------


## AmiMizuno

> Dick is definitely the Piccolo to Damian's Gohan. I don't mind Damian always being closer with him than he is with Bruce....but I'd still like him and Bruce to be close like they were before. This little falling out they have has been poorly handled in just about every title it's come up in (the ones that remember that the two aren't on these vaguely bad terms). And the closest we've gotten to any explanation for how it started was Bruce forgetting Damian's birthday. 
> 
> I just want it to end. As independent as he's always been, forcing drama just to get Damian out of the way is unnecessary.


I agree and Bruce has forgotten things before due to his research but GEnerally not birthdays useless he couldn't due to him being attacked. He generally always sends something in most cases.  Like I said I don't mind if Damian was brought closer to closer to Bruce. I rather Dc stop making Damian a butthole all the time. That made him a little bit of a jerk but way more likable. BUt than keep going back to a time. I mean with the whole Nightwing thing it's just because at times all the Batfam needs someone to vet to. Even Bruce has done it with Nightwing. I mean all the Batfam have done that in many other settings. 

I mean Love the fact Diamain and Jon, They balance each other out toned Daiman down. What's the point of keeping his personality the same just toning it down.

----------


## dietrich

> I agree and Bruce has forgotten things before due to his research but GEnerally not birthdays useless he couldn't due to him being attacked. He generally always sends something in most cases.  Like I said I don't mind if Damian was brought closer to closer to Bruce. I rather Dc stop making Damian a butthole all the time. That made him a little bit of a jerk but way more likable. BUt than keep going back to a time. I mean with the whole Nightwing thing it's just because at times all the Batfam needs someone to vet to. Even Bruce has done it with Nightwing. I mean all the Batfam have done that in many other settings. 
> 
> I mean Love the fact Diamain and Jon, They balance each other out toned Daiman down. What's the point of keeping his personality the same just toning it down.


 Damian and Jon don't balance each other out since we've never seen them when they weren't caricatures of themselves. They are not supposed to balance each other out.

Damian has never stopped being a butt hole just like Bruce has always been a butt hole and I frankly dislike it when fans expect him to stop been one. Some people are just arse's. Damian, Bruce, Guy, Clark before PC they are all ares holes and that is who they are. Damian is supposed to be a difficult to like and an arsehole. that;s him. If you ever read a Damian with his arsehole qualities significantly dialled down then that Damian is OCC. Eg even you note that Supersons Damian is toned down. That is deliberately watered Damian

Dick and Tim are nice, Jason is regular I don't need another regular or nice robin. Heroes don't have to be likeable or nice. Often people are asreholes so it's important that that's reflected in comics.

Damian is closer to Dick than anyone else so we are already there. Dick is his friggin conscience.

----------


## dietrich

> Dick is definitely the Piccolo to Damian's Gohan. I don't mind Damian always being closer with him than he is with Bruce....but I'd still like him and Bruce to be close like they were before. This little falling out they have has been poorly handled in just about every title it's come up in (the ones that remember that the two aren't on these vaguely bad terms). And the closest we've gotten to any explanation for how it started was Bruce forgetting Damian's birthday. 
> 
> I just want it to end. As independent as he's always been, forcing drama just to get Damian out of the way is unnecessary.


Their fallout had nothing to do with bruce forgetting damian's birthday and nowhere does it even imply so not even in TT where the forgotten Birthday was mention did they ever imply that the two had fallen out. 

Their fallout was 1st mentioned in Dc nation and then No justice which was over a year after the forgotten birthday and over a year of the most bruce and damian together content we've had since 2016.

Their fallout was in no Justice to give him a reason to form the new TT and to isolate him from king's batman.

----------


## dietrich

[QUOTE=RLV_1996;4844307]I apologize, I was reading this thread for a long time, but I suddenly felt that some things by Dazai_Osamu needed to be adressed. 



The poster Dazai_Osamu seems to be regurgitating the same opinions that have been going round and repeated constantly by anti damian blogs most notably Thattimdrakeguy.com

----------


## RLV_1996

[QUOTE=dietrich;4846864]


> I apologize, I was reading this thread for a long time, but I suddenly felt that some things by Dazai_Osamu needed to be adressed. 
> 
> 
> 
> The poster Dazai_Osamu seems to be regurgitating the same opinions that have been going round and repeated constantly by anti damian blogs most notably Thattimdrakeguy.com


Lol, I thought Timmy fans already got over Damain.

----------


## dietrich

> Number one, being crÃ*tical of Damian it isn't an  excuse for the heroes who brainwashed other heroes, even if DC treated the failed brainwashing as enough punishment, and all their other illegal actions more or less are ignored at the end of the day, DC doesn't go deeper in that possible plot and I think the reason is many heroes would end up as huge hypocrites it'd be like 'I'm a hero and I've won and as enforcement agencies and correction departments are useless I'll punish the villains as I see fit'. Bruce and his illegal prison and torture as a method of gaining info should be adressed in universe, in fact,  this would be a good point for Damian the 'you're firing me but you the same, you are worse because you grew up knowing whatÂs acceptable in society and the value of human rights.
> 
> Battle for the cowl was a mess Jason was super crazy in a too convenient way, Dick was acting as he didn't remember what had happened with Bat Azrael and Tim had the idiot ball for most of that arc.
> 
> Tim shouldn't be Batman, him as future Batman ended up as well-intentioned extremist or a fascist, and as you said  someone should remember he only wanted to be Robin, Damian future as Batman it isn't that good, he'll burn half of Gotham or  sell his soul because he isn't as good as Dick or Bruce or he'll quit and become the new Demon head a lot less crazy than his grandfather or with a lot less Lazarus pit baths.
> 
> At this point I wouldn't be surprise if Tim and Damian end up being the same age, after all they had a 7 years gap before Flashpoint and now it's 3 years gap.
> 
> Maybe Luke Fox as Batman will be like Bat Azrael version 2.0


I'm pretty sure I never said it was an excuse for damian's actions [infact I've been one of the few who've been vocal about Damian facing consequences] It just that it's worth considering and folks are acting like it's never happened before.

I also noted the pro's of Damian quitting and how that reflects on Damian and others. None of those are excuses.

No Bruce's prison's weren't just for gaining info. most of the time it's just a place to keep bad guys just like Damian is doing. It was for Hush and it was for Joker.

It doesn't matter if Battle for the cowl was a mess or not. This TT's story has been criticised as a a mess but I still accept it.
Tim was the one we saw burn Gotham in an effort to kill Damian.
damian going to extremes that at the cost of his own happiness and future [selling his soul] because he wanted to keep gotham safe. 
Damian having doubts about he's abilities as batman are good. They line up with the insecurities and pressure faced by Bruce and Dick. I like Damian having insecurities and not measuring up much more than I like the batman Beyond way of Bruce saying that Damian was the best batman he had ever seen Even better than he himself in his prime. [I don't need my favourites to be the best]

Bruce doesn't have a problem with insecurities or people having doubts but he has a problem with fascist [well intentioned or not] he didn't even have a issue with Damian who driven crazy from the suit goes from wiping out to taking over the LOA then back to changing the loA .

Fascist Tim Batman though he did have a problem with and the guy was so far gone that he shot Bruce when Bruce tried to talk sense into him. I don't see bruce passing the mantle to Tim so I don't see YJ doing a arc where they write Tim out of the succession line since he was never. Not since Damian became a thing anyway.

The new timeline says that Tim became Robin the year Damian was born. They are not the same age.

We already have bat Azrael 2.0 in that Dark universe serie done by Synder that Bane's son, Bruce and Azreal. I don't know what I want for Luke but I want him to be different from everything that's come before. It's never good if a character imitates a well established character. 
Dick as batman works because he was nothing like bruce same as terry, same as Damian [Just,666,Batboy,Jl] they are all different.

No one wants a knock off.

----------


## dietrich

[QUOTE=RLV_1996;4846881]


> Lol, I thought Timmy fans already got over Damain.


The cool ones have but some haven't. It's made worse by DC's handling of Tim. Every time they make the wrong choice with Tim or make the right choice with Damian the hate intensifies.

which is understandable but then you get the ones who lost their shit when Tim and Dick called Damian cute in HIC or that Damian is drawn small and babyfaced while Tim is drawn like a 16 yr old. 

I mean WTF.

Some fans live in a perpetual state of salt. DC doesn't help by forcing Robin fans to be in competition. The way some Tim fans see it if not for Damian then Tim would be the Robin. Tim would be in the movies and stuff like the Harley show etc

In reality if it wasn't Damian it wouldn't be tim. It'd be Duke. DC approved Duke over Tim and Damian in the new 52. Damian isn't Tim's problem sadly DC is DC and WB don't want him as Robin so much so they even erased him as Robin but some fans don't want to accept that.

When some fans voice certain opinions you can tell they are skewed by bias to a point where there's no hope so i don't even bother responding or I respond but keep it brief.

----------


## dietrich

> The argument isn't invalid because  Batman is a hypocrite jerk, Bruce would look worse if he made it and Damian could call him  out but the argument about the inhuman, degrading and illegal actions stands. Personally I don't see it happening, Damian won't be punished by his Gulag nor his brainwashing, too troublesome to deal with that with DC current writers, the only way I see Damian being punished it'd be if his actions were publicly exposed, in this case Batman would tell him something about his illegal actions but not because they are immoral and a violation of human rights, he'd be punished because he gave bad publicity to the superhero community, the Justice League and Batman.
> 
> Batman as a jerk is his default characterization since the 90s so being a jerk one more time wouldn't be surprising, maybe he'll be a better father with his son/daughter with Selina.


It still makes it invalid since he's Damian's teacher. You can't call out somone who is suppossed to be learning from you for learning form you. Hypocrite or not.

I doubt he'll ever be a better father but hopefully it turn out that Helena Kyle was a Wayne all along that way we get Damian and helena team ups like we did in the past, less chances of her getting erased and the tease of Superman finding bruce's long lost daughter to help Damian will be more likely to be true.

Damian loved having a sister. it gave him joy and right now he needs all the joy he can get.

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## Yennefer

> It still makes it invalid since he's Damian's teacher. You can't call out somone who is suppossed to be learning from you for learning form you. Hypocrite or not.
> 
> I doubt he'll ever be a better father but hopefully it turn out that Helena Kyle was a Wayne all along that way we get Damian and helena team ups like we did in the past, less chances of her getting erased and the tease of Superman finding bruce's long lost daughter to help Damian will be more likely to be true.
> 
> Damian loved having a sister. it gave him joy and right now he needs all the joy he can get.


Wait....
Superman looking for Bruce's daughter is canon, non-canon, or a speculation?

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## Restingvoice

> Wait....
> Superman looking for Bruce's daughter is canon, non-canon, or a speculation?


Canon but hasn't happened yet. It was the written plan for 5G or post 5G in Doomsday Clock's last issue.

That said, now with Didio the co-publisher is out of DC, the actual future is again up in the air.

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## Dazai_Osamu

> You obviously use this termine to show how "inhumane" are Damian's actions. But Gulags are *labour* camps. And they were so notorious precisely becasue of insane amount of labour that prisoners needed to do there. IT simply does not suit Damian's prison.


Gulag, as you got, was used not as labour camps but as a way to show the degrading conditions and illegal detentions of the place Damian kept. I found Gulag pictured the idea right.




> As dietrich said, heroes in DC world exercice things that in real world would make them "face the law" (even Superman and his Phantom Zone - how it is different??). What you said would hold if this happened in real life, but it is not out of ordianry in DC, so what "bad publicity" Damian gave to superheroes.


'Face consequences' in universe is a lot like you say, in fact, in DC if you are a hero and you act illegal or immorally you may face scorn or be considered less trustworthy for a little while but in the end the next crisis or big bad you are forgiven and your actions are ignored, and if you're a villain with a name well you get paid hollidays to prison, Arkham or if you're unlucky, you are sent to Suicide Squad but in the end you'll be free. 




> And I don't understand your very harsh judgement of Damian from moral point of view in this case, as he was not holding bank robbers or petty thiefs there, he got Deathstroke and Black mask - serial killers, pretty much undetainable by common justice system of DC world. I personally see this as a Damian  trying to reach next step in progression, as previously he just preferred to eliminate the threat, but going in the wrong direction without proper guidance.


I agreed Damian is better than his first appearances and his default 'killed the scum', but it's the standard of a guy who has been Robin like ten years so low and it can be summed up as 'he doesn't kill anymore', seriously is that the standard? Being a hero is going beyond 'thou shalt not kill', it's a step and an important step but it isn't enough, he already had his redemption arc, he has been a while in universe with Batman, etc. His motives aren't bad, he wants to solve the revolving prison door trouble but his actions are terrible because he ended up acting as wicked, selfish and egocentric as the criminals he caught, his behavior was almost exactly villain-like. I'm harsh because the issue is fundamental for the character and with that 5G in the future, the sidekicks and the others heroes' fate is unclear, and I'd like something worth reading for them.




> Batman would punish Damian not becasue he broke his rules or some code, but becasue he would worry over direction his 13 years old son is going.
> But current Batman firing or punishing Damian sounds to me like father, who left his family for his new lover, but suddenly coming back just once and just to go hard on his 13 years old son for being a bully and troubled child in school.


Current Batman is an ass but this kind of Batman has been here for a while and honestly I don't think he'll get better in the near future. 

The bad publicity is more a hypothetical case, if Damian's prison and brainwashing were made public, who would take the burden aren't the teen titans, neither Robin but the Justice League, they would be the focus of the possible critic and I imagine a villain with with publicity telling people how uncontrollable and powerful heroes are, they need to be restrained in the case of a new Robin's prison, the heroes need to have watchers... The heroes can have their secret prisons but they aren't proudly announcing them to the public.

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## Dazai_Osamu

> Damian and Jon don't balance each other out since we've never seen them when they weren't caricatures of themselves. They are not supposed to balance each other out.
> 
> Damian has never stopped being a butt hole just like Bruce has always been a butt hole and I frankly dislike it when fans expect him to stop been one. Some people are just arse's. Damian, Bruce, Guy, Clark before PC they are all ares holes and that is who they are. Damian is supposed to be a difficult to like and an arsehole. that;s him. If you ever read a Damian with his arsehole qualities significantly dialled down then that Damian is OCC. Eg even you note that Supersons Damian is toned down. That is deliberately watered Damian
> 
> Dick and Tim are nice, Jason is regular I don't need another regular or nice robin. Heroes don't have to be likeable or nice. Often people are asreholes so it's important that that's reflected in comics.
> 
> Damian is closer to Dick than anyone else so we are already there. Dick is his friggin conscience.


That's what makes Damian interesting, he's a jerk who is trying to become a good person or at least a less bad one. There are jerk characters and you like them because they are authentic in their jerkish way and they are horrible and once in a blue moon they faced consequences and it's right, but after that they are still jerks. 

Supersons is a great disservice for Damian, the most forced 'friendship' ever literally their fathers pushed that friendship, Jon was this generic cute and dull kid who always ended up doing what Damian wanted and Damian was a childish watered down him, he didn't have a childhood and a friend won't give him that, and he also wants respect and be treated as older than he is and SS created the opposite effect and an issue I find disconcerting is: why would a teen Damian like  want to be friend with kid Jon? DC wanted a kind of ying yang, they had that effect with Dick, until they ruined him.

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## AmiMizuno

I get she is supposed to be an arsehole but in the  right hand they still make him likeable.

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## RLV_1996

> Gulag, as you got, was used not as labour camps but as a way to show the degrading conditions and illegal detentions of the place Damian kept. I found Gulag pictured the idea right.


Well, while you might "found" it that way, real life fact say that Gulag does not picture the right idea. It is inhuman in another way that Damian prison actually is, guilty of hosting not just criminals but people with alternative political views from Soviet machine. I would suggest use Guantanamo, as it gives better example - a prison for terrorists and murderers that exists in shady area of human rights.

I am so picky about this, because someone can take this arguement and escalate it even much, much futher in their analogy to make a point - claim that Damian prisons are as inhuman as concentration camps, for example.




> 'Face consequences' in universe is a lot like you say, in fact, in DC if you are a hero and you act illegal or immorally you may face scorn or be considered less trustworthy for a little while but in the end the next crisis or big bad you are forgiven and your actions are ignored, and if you're a villain with a name well you get paid hollidays to prison, Arkham or if you're unlucky, you are sent to Suicide Squad but in the end you'll be free


Alright, let Damian face the consequences and let DC superheroes be scornful on him. But please address question of Superman's Phantom Zone and Batprisons as well. You seem to avoid it, but you can't judge one and not the other. It's not "hypocricy fallacy", it's what all systems of judgement are based on around the world - justice should be blind and strike all people equally for the same crime.




> I agreed Damian is better than his first appearances and his default 'killed the scum', but it's the standard of a guy who has been Robin like ten years so low and it can be summed up as 'he doesn't kill anymore', seriously is that the standard? Being a hero is going beyond 'thou shalt not kill', it's a step and an important step but it isn't enough, he already had his redemption arc, he has been a while in universe with Batman, etc. His motives aren't bad, he wants to solve the revolving prison door trouble but his actions are terrible because he ended up acting as wicked, selfish and egocentric as the criminals he caught, his behavior was almost exactly villain-like. I'm harsh because the issue is fundamental for the character and with that 5G in the future, the sidekicks and the others heroes' fate is unclear, and I'd like something worth reading for them.


Em, what? Ten years? He was Robin like two-three years in DC universe. And shown remarkable progress on that matter, some would even call it unrealistic. Just google cases of Anton Makarenko and how he was raising children left from the war, street kids and kids who were criminals at their age. 
Redemntion arc is not a plot device that magically changed all his character, it was him realising his horrible wrong doings and trying to solve them. He no longer thinks what he did is right. But to not conduct radical methods to "do good", one must be connected to society and it's rules. Dick was doing that to Damian, he was dragging him into that society and did a great job. And everyone besides Dick pushing him away or neglecting him does not help to intergrate Damian in the society properly, thus antisocial methods. 
Where did you see "wicked" and "villan-like"? I will repeat again, Batman and even Superman show this behaviour, but authors rarely point it out. One of examples when authors point out was Batman Tower of Babel.
The issue is "fundamental" for a character you are not fond of, which is alright, but to eradicate this issue you will need to "brainwash" character itself, because people don't change so quickly (2-3 years, as I pointed out). Here you think kinda like Damian, no?




> Current Batman is an ass but this kind of Batman has been here for a while and honestly I don't think he'll get better in the near future.
> 
> The bad publicity is more a hypothetical case, if Damian's prison and brainwashing were made public, who would take the burden aren't the teen titans, neither Robin but the Justice League, they would be the focus of the possible critic and I imagine a villain with with publicity telling people how uncontrollable and powerful heroes are, they need to be restrained in the case of a new Robin's prison, the heroes need to have watchers... The heroes can have their secret prisons but they aren't proudly announcing them to the public.


Then there is no reason for Damian to get better either in such a short time. Without parental guidance or strong example, even genius kids rarely change themselves. As we discussed, Damian actually acts accordingly to set example.

And Damian does not proudly announce his prison to public either. Plus, I think heroes don't really care about PR that much, otherwise they would already hire some PR managers to solve existing disdain for all those Dark Metals, Infinite  amount of Crisis and heroes running around shooting mayors (Red Hood) or blowing up buildings in city (Teen Titans Tower and Future Timmy)  :Smile: .

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## RLV_1996

> That's what makes Damian interesting, he's a jerk who is trying to become a good person or at least a less bad one. There are jerk characters and you like them because they are authentic in their jerkish way and they are horrible and once in a blue moon they faced consequences and it's right, but after that they are still jerks. 
> 
> Supersons is a great disservice for Damian, the most forced 'friendship' ever literally their fathers pushed that friendship, Jon was this generic cute and dull kid who always ended up doing what Damian wanted and Damian was a childish watered down him, he didn't have a childhood and a friend won't give him that, and he also wants respect and be treated as older than he is and SS created the opposite effect and an issue I find disconcerting is: why would a teen Damian like  want to be friend with kid Jon? DC wanted a kind of ying yang, they had that effect with Dick, until they ruined him.


He is not a "jerk", 13 years old kids from death cults of murderes can't really be jerks. He is a very damaged child, who will probably never have normal life. This does not excuse his previous killings or current antisocial behavior, but calling him "jerk" does not really explain his motivations in behaving like one. 

Supersons had their drawbacks, sure, but it did one important thing - made Damian interact with someone from relatively normal society, with normal trait and interests, and not ex-assassins, crime fighters and genius detectives.
Teen Damian wanting to hang out with Jon actually shows that Damian wants this social ties, wants to have friends and someone to share "fun" with - he is a kid afer all. But his training pushes it all down, almost on unconditional reflex. And many kids  will tell you they are "adult" and needed to be treated like adults. That of course is not true. I mean, kid got upset over his dad ignoring his birthday - that kinda tell you things. Dick got that, and if you read their interactions, he takes Damian seriously and treats with respect, but he still mostly treats him as a kid (when Damian is not attacking out of his screwed charecter and suppressed emotions and Dick forced to self-defend from ex-assassin, but that happens rarely  :Wink:  )

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## Dazai_Osamu

In Guantanamo many people there hadn't received a sentence ergo they aren't proper criminals yet and visually the inhuman treatment in the Gulag I have it more present but if you prefer another example of a prison with inhuman conditions you can take it.

The scorn and contempt wasn't directed at Damian, I was thinking about Bruce's actions and how the Justice League treats him from time to time. But well you said I was using real life standars for consequences and how that shouldn't apply in universe; however, your comment about criminal or street children in real life and their development, well that critic applies to you, Damian was raised in an abnormal environment in a comic, and as you pointed out real life standars don't count in universe or do they now? Because if you called some hypocrite you shouldn't be another one, should you?

Superman is a paragon in universe and as it was mentioned heroes don't face consequences, Batman doesn’t face them or he does it's only for a little while, wiith less reason does Superman for his illegal actions, his private prison is illegal without a second thought and should be explored but that's an issue more a Superman tread. 

PR issue was hypothetical as I mentioned, and PR managers would be useful for the disdain and the public disasters which aren't ignored in universe but where would the drama, angst and shock go? I'm under the impression DC considers shock value as profitable.

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## RLV_1996

Sorry, I could not  understand your first sentence about Guantanamo. It's not attack on you, I really couldn't. ;(
 My point is, the motivation of holding prisoners in Guantanamo and the conditions of their existance there are more simular to Damian's prison - it hosts dangerous criminals, is not according to human rights, with lack of proper control and supervision, but not as harsh as Gulag and without politically motivated cases.

Em, I think DC worlds still has humans as their majority citizens, which means psychology of normal, not meta-human at least, should be simular to ours. And with cases of kids criminals having simular internal psychological issues (Jason Todd wasn't normal case of a kid, from what I remember). 
But what we are talking about is external perception of the situation, for example if you have hurricanes every month - your reaction to them would be different if you had them suddenty once in 100 years. Or, regular bombing of the areas are preceived as dangerous but inevitable and almost mundane in countries with civil wars, as people learn to deal with that danger. Same case with superheroes breaking the law and shady government schemes - you kinda adapt your responses to it with time.
But look at cases of child soldiers in those countries in war with regular bombings and compare it with criminal kids in developed countires - they have some simular issues in their mentality and behavior, I would argue. Those kids still shock adults who deal with them - that's the whole point of using kids in war and crime, which is indeed horrible. That becasue external perception of the situation has an impact, sure, but only partial, as internal development of psyche is still a thing and humans have universal set of values in their life, survival, protection of young kin and need for personal safety is among them, some would argue. From what I saw in comics, family values as well are the same in DC as in our world (Kents, Lanes, Waynes before Bruce), so Damian's upbringing is still abnormal in DC environment as well.

In this case, you can compare Earths numerous crisis as it being in war of a sort. That means some actions are deemed as mundane and inevitable, like heroes doing their thing and supervillans theirs, but family as internal mechanism is still intact, which means cases of child killers would be expected, true, but would still shock and cause expected set of emotions from both kid and adults around. Deaths of civillians duing hero-villan fight causes simular mixture of   human emotions of loss and grief with sort of acceptance of inevitable (as seen in Teen Titans with Roundhouse).

I'm not sure where is hypocricy in what I'm said, I've pointed out that Damian's actions are wrong and needed to be adressed, as they are not in line with human values in DC universe as well, as with ours. But you argued for either legal solution or public scrutiny by those who conduct those actions as well. I just asked how it would go in DC world in that case. I say, mentor of sueprhero should have right to regulate his sidekick's activity, for the benefit of sidekick and public around, but not dubious collective of DC heroes or government with people like Lex as president.

So, you started this arguement with Damian facing consequences and "hypocricy fallacy", yet you say established heroes would never face consequences for the same things becasue they are established. Why is that? This is fundamentlly opposes principle "justice is blind". As I said before, you can't judge one and not judge the other, that's just wrong.

I agree, DC publishers do seem to consider shock value as profitable  :Wink:

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## RLV_1996

[QUOTE=dietrich;4846918]


> The cool ones have but some haven't. It's made worse by DC's handling of Tim. Every time they make the wrong choice with Tim or make the right choice with Damian the hate intensifies.
> 
> which is understandable but then you get the ones who lost their shit when Tim and Dick called Damian cute in HIC or that Damian is drawn small and babyfaced while Tim is drawn like a 16 yr old. 
> 
> I mean WTF.
> 
> Some fans live in a perpetual state of salt. DC doesn't help by forcing Robin fans to be in competition. The way some Tim fans see it if not for Damian then Tim would be the Robin. Tim would be in the movies and stuff like the Harley show etc
> 
> In reality if it wasn't Damian it wouldn't be tim. It'd be Duke. DC approved Duke over Tim and Damian in the new 52. Damian isn't Tim's problem sadly DC is DC and WB don't want him as Robin so much so they even erased him as Robin but some fans don't want to accept that.
> ...



I think you are right.

I am all for that all robins got fair treatment, they all have unique traits that should make it easy to distinguish them without unnessesary overshadowing.

But establishement of one character at the expense of others seems to be the way now in all comics in general. For most part, edittors or writers seems to unwilling to constribute time and effort for smooth transition of passing the mantle to next person, so new drama is created as reason, or character is simply written off.

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## AmiMizuno

Who is good at wrong Damian? I mean Dc has people pushing being a asshole too far at times. We need him to still be likable. I know someone said Damian is a feared of Grayson settling down maybe that can be explored if Dc ever allowed that. I know this can’t be cannon since the writers will just not use it but can be explored in other things like alt worlds or elsewhere

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## CPSparkles

The producers of the Harley Animated Series did an AMA on Redditt and Damian's name popped up a couple of times

_Question from reditt user:

Hi guys, thank you so much for doing this! I adore the show, and have three questions!

Can you tell us anything about Season 2? A premiere date, something?

Is there any chance that you’ll explore Harley and Ivy as... something more in the future? (Romance, I am talking about romance!)

Who is your favorite member of the Bat family?

Show producer Pat's answer:

Hi! Thanks for watching! 1) So, season 2 is going to pretty much pick right up where season one ends. It's going to explore more of Gotham's criminals, and their evolving relationship with Harley as she amasses power, which doesn't sit too well with them. We'll see Catwoman, Mr. Freeze, more Riddler, more Two-Face and more Bane! 2) Yes, 100% but I don't want to say more than that right now. By the end of season 2, you will have seen things you have not seen before between them (within the show; I can't speak to the ENTIRE Harley/Ivy comics oeuvre) 3) I want to say Damian but I'm going to go with Alfred, who shows up in the series season 2

Reddit users question

 can nothing but truly praise your work here, the way your plots evolve over 20 minutes are Rick and Morty level at times, really looking forward to what you got in season 2 and hopefully some more to come.

E: sorry forgot to ask a question: I'm all over your take on Bane and Damian Wayne, Bane always shines, but are there plans for Harley's teen nemesis too?

Show Producer Pat's answer

Thanks for all these nice comments. It truly means a lot. My biggest regret is that Damian isn't in the show more. Jacob Tremblay was hilarious voicing him. If we get a season 3 and Jacob Tremblay hasn't been crushed under the weight of his acting awards, I'd love to bring in more Damian. - Pat

P.S. if you haven't seen DOCTOR SLEEP, Tremblay is incredible in it._


https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/co...ker_executive/


They've got Babs and Alfred in season 2 and the Bat's character they most want to have on the show is Huntress

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## Digifiend

Babs being Batgirl, which makes sense since Damian's presence makes it clear they're using modern continuity as their inspiration.

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## CPSparkles

> I get she is supposed to be an arsehole but in the  right hand they still make him likeable.


Agreed and we saw this in Tomasi's B&R
Gleason's RSOB
Morrission's B&R
Brian Miller's Batgirl
Lil'Gotham
Superman, Supersons, Injustice 2, DCeased,Gotham Academy, Streets of Gotham.

The story from last year's Horror anthology where he teams up with Grundy, The Dc new Talent show case where he's saving cats with Selina, King's Batman, Gotham Resistance, Synder's batman. There's so many versions of likeable Damian.

Supersons like lil'Gotham has a more kid friendly and funny tone so thie Damian reflects this. These two had the awww! factor so their Damian  are the ones that like some more relatable bat characters you just can't help liking.

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## CPSparkles

> Who is good at wrong Damian? I mean Dc has people pushing being a asshole too far at times. We need him to still be likable. I know someone said Damian is a feared of Grayson settling down maybe that can be explored if Dc ever allowed that. I know this can’t be cannon since the writers will just not use it but can be explored in other things like alt worlds or elsewhere


I certainly would love to see that fear of Damian's explored more. Dick was the one who thought him that unconditional love was a thing and took him in when he was homes and had no one after Bruce's death and his return to Gotham. I'm glad Seeley went there and I'd like to see more.
Dick and Damian's relationship is special because it mirrors Bruce and Dick's. Dick is more than Bruce's first kid and Damian is more than just Dick's brother.

Likeable is good but even better is an interesting well crafted character that fans can get invested in. I wasn't a fans of Damian when he was introduced. I hated him but as I slowly watched him grow and evolve I've come to like him far more than my Robin [Tim] and more than Dick who was my favourite comic character [now 2]

Damian isn't always likeable but he's good. I get why why he's the way he is [past, DNa and personality] I'm really interested in his journey and find that he evokes more emotion and passion from me than any other character. And none of that is because of how likeable he is.

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## CPSparkles

> Babs being Batgirl, which makes sense since Damian's presence makes it clear they're using modern continuity as their inspiration.


Yep. I mean look at Kite man

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## AmiMizuno

In a way this is why I would kind of like to see if Dick did have a kid or someone who did take up Dick’s time. I mean if Dick did get into a serious relationship I would love to see how Damian reacts. I would love to see the way Dick treated him he winds up doing that once he gets over his fears. Dick has a kid that’s his sister or brother

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## CPSparkles

> That's what makes Damian interesting, he's a jerk who is trying to become a good person or at least a less bad one. There are jerk characters and you like them because they are authentic in their jerkish way and they are horrible and once in a blue moon they faced consequences and it's right, but after that they are still jerks. 
> 
> Supersons is a great disservice for Damian, the most forced 'friendship' ever literally their fathers pushed that friendship, Jon was this generic cute and dull kid who always ended up doing what Damian wanted and Damian was a childish watered down him, he didn't have a childhood and a friend won't give him that, and he also wants respect and be treated as older than he is and SS created the opposite effect and an issue I find disconcerting is: why would a teen Damian like  want to be friend with kid Jon? DC wanted a kind of ying yang, they had that effect with Dick, until they ruined him.


Damian is a kid who's trying to overcome the handicapped of his birth and past. He isn't trying to be a good person he IS a good person.
He decided to help make sure the world is a better place where innocents don't suffer the second he was exposed to normal society outside of the cult that had been his whole world to then.

That is a very very normal story. The world is full of stories of people who grew up in cults or closed off environments and their issues when integrating to normal society and how their behaviour differs from those of the 'normal' society as you and I define it.

Even just people that have been kidnapped and spend a long time in captivity away from the society and world as we know it at times completely change their world view, morality and behaviour due to the environment they are held in.
This doesn't mean they are Bad people similarly Damian isn't isn't a bad person. No one who willingly gave their lives twice for others. Who patrols and endangers their life everyday for others is already a good person.

Damian faces consequences everyday for being a jerk. No one like him that is is the consecequence of jerky before behaviour [don't think they they execute people for being jerks]
Most people who are jerks and bad at social relations never get past that. Not everyone adapts especially when some of that is a result of past trauma. I don't ask people who have a complex borne out of a yearning to be loved and accepted to just get over it much like I wouldn't ask a person who suffers from Anxiety due to an incident when they were kids to hurry up and change.

Damian's friendship with Jon wasn't forced though their parents did set them up and Damian did send Maya to spy on Jon. A classic Bruce move which if I learnt anything from Superman [both Rebirth and Bendis] Clark never misses a chance to let Jon in on the strangness and batshit ways of Bruce Wayne.

Lois goes as far as to call him crazy and Clark alludes to the same but he still trusts him with his life so their friendship makes sense.
Saying that Jon always ends up doing what Damian wants is a blatant and easy to verify lie. 

Damian didn't have a childhood and his time with Jon gave him a taste of that. It won't give him a childhood but he got to have sleepovers, Play games and form a garage band.

He got a tatse of what childhood is like for the average kid.

Wanting to be treated as older doesn't mean he should which is what Superson did right. Damian with all his skills and enhancements is still a kid and kids often don't know whats best. So kudos to Bruce for encouraging the friendship, sending him to school and allowing him to have a hobby as regular as playing in a band.

Bruce every now and then does make the right decision. Damian is a minor and as such doesn't always know what's best for him. It's why Bruce gets Ollie to watch over him when he's off world [without Damian's knowledgde] and why so many times it's a chore to get him to go do stuff like have a wash. He's a kid.

Damian is a friends with Jon because Jon earned his respect and because he wants a friend. This has been the case since before the new 52 when he went seeking Colin's friendship, it's why he agreed to go to the movies with Duke, why he took drama lessons from Carrie, why he hangs out at a shelter etc

Canon established for a longtime now that Damian has always been craving a friend and acceptance from others. He attempts to mask it but it's always been part of his narrative.

Dick and Damian's dynamic isn't at all like Damian and Jon. That's like saying that Dick and Wally are like Dick and Bruce.

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## CPSparkles

> In a way this is why I would kind of like to see if Dick did have a kid or someone who did take up Dick’s time. I mean if Dick did get into a serious relationship I would love to see how Damian reacts. I would love to see the way Dick treated him he winds up doing that once he gets over his fears. Dick has a kid that’s his sister or brother


Batman Beyond recently revealed Dick's daughter and Damian is around in that world. He even has an arc coming up. It'd be great if we got to see more of Dick's daughter or Damian and Dick in beyond. It would be more emotional if such a story features a younger more insecure Damian of course but I'd still like to know more about that Dick's life.

I would like to see Damian dealing with his fears of Dick potentially replacing him.

Seeley did a knock of Damian panicking about being replaced in the prelude though the it wasn't on the level of his break down over Dick's possible baby and it required he be drugged by Ra's.

I think Seeley was making a statement there since he wrote both stories.
It took drugs for Damian to get paranoid over his dad and selina possibly having a baby but with Dick he fell apart due to his own fears and how he views Dick.

Bruce hasn't always been there for Damian and Damian has called him on how he prefers to take care of other kids that aren't him. So he expects Bruce who has replaced every kid he lost [even some who were still alive including Damian] to replace him. That's just normal behaviour for Bruce but Dick, he's different. He's never replaced him and was even reluctant to give him up when Bruce returned.

----------


## CPSparkles

[QUOTE=dietrich;4846864]


> I apologize, I was reading this thread for a long time, but I suddenly felt that some things by Dazai_Osamu needed to be adressed. 
> 
> 
> 
> The poster Dazai_Osamu seems to be regurgitating the same opinions that have been going round and repeated constantly by anti damian blogs most notably Thattimdrakeguy.com



To be fair I follow a lot of Tim blogs and ThatTimDrakeGuy.com isn't reflective of them at all. Most are so toxic or hateful. 
What you said in your other comment is correct. Dc doesn't foster a healthy relationship between the Robin fans and does have them competing against each other.

It doesn't help that due to lack of progression we've got 3 sidekicks for batman. A character that Dc has been trying to free up for a longtime now. How can you have 3 sidekicks for a guy who hasn't had a constant sidekick at his side since Jason Todd?

It's the curse of legacy characters. They eat into each others fan bases, split bases and cannibalise each other all due to increased competition.

But I digress that dude's blog is one of those that spreads misinformation and hate and gives balanced blogs a bad rep

----------


## AmiMizuno

> Batman Beyond recently revealed Dick's daughter and Damian is around in that world. He even has an arc coming up. It'd be great if we got to see more of Dick's daughter or Damian and Dick in beyond. It would be more emotional if such a story features a younger more insecure Damian of course but I'd still like to know more about that Dick's life.
> 
> I would like to see Damian dealing with his fears of Dick potentially replacing him.
> 
> Seeley did a knock of Damian panicking about being replaced in the prelude though the it wasn't on the level of his break down over Dick's possible baby and it required he be drugged by Ra's.
> 
> I think Seeley was making a statement there since he wrote both stories.
> It took drugs for Damian to get paranoid over his dad and selina possibly having a baby but with Dick he fell apart due to his own fears and how he views Dick.
> 
> Bruce hasn't always been there for Damian and Damian has called him on how he prefers to take care of other kids that aren't him. So he expects Bruce who has replaced every kid he lost [even some who were still alive including Damian] to replace him. That's just normal behaviour for Bruce but Dick, he's different. He's never replaced him and was even reluctant to give him up when Bruce returned.



That’s the one thing that Dick has over Batman. He makes time for all of his family. We do know Bruce cares but he does have issues. Dick always has hope and tries to set the good. Who is the stable one that helps everyone. I think in a sense it doesn’t matter who he has the child with. With Babs it’s not has bad I think. With Kori I don’t think he really knows her. In Batman beyond who is the mother.

dick has never replaced any of the Batfam. And I love to see how Dick does should that

----------


## CPSparkles

> ThatÂ’s the one thing that Dick has over Batman. He makes time for all of his family. We do know Bruce cares but he does have issues. Dick always has hope and tries to set the good. Who is the stable one that helps everyone. I think in a sense it doesnÂ’t matter who he has the child with. With Babs itÂ’s not has bad I think. With Kori I donÂ’t think he really knows her. In Batman beyond who is the mother.
> 
> dick has never replaced any of the Batfam. And I love to see how Dick does should that


[in before anyone goes but.....] I mean Dick did give Robin to Tim which technically is replacing though it's completely different from what we see Bruce do

Tim didn't need Robin nor did he meet the requirements of potential candidate for Robin. not to mention that Dick recognised his growth and evolution. It was time for Tim to move on.

Robin was a mantle created to give meaning and direction to young boys whose's lives were in danger of spiralling down a dark path. Young boys who had no one else and nothing else. That wasn't Tim and never was so to me Dick giving it to Damian was more of telling someone to take their feet off a couch so someone who needs a seat can sit down.


Yep Dick is a the stable better adjusted one in the family much to his detriment. It's why he had to be grounded for City of Bane leading to the hell that we currently find ourselves in with Ric.

Dick is a young man who has his life infront of him as much as i love to see him dealing with surrogate dad issues with bruce's kid my one big problem with it is that it again is something that doesn't help separate Dick from Batman's story. 

Dick's connection to the Batfamily is both a pro and a con.

It's the reason why even though I'd love a Nightwing and Robin book and I'd love Dick to have a sidekick I don't want it to be Damian. 

I think Babs is most likely the mum.

Grant Morrison once said that Dick Grayson is the best thing Bruce ever did. 

I think he means that the fact that Bruce managed to take a once truamatised kid and raise him up to be a hero/man who is well adjusted unlike himself is a testament to the positive change/result of Batman/Bruce's efforts [also the Graysons laid a great foundation before they passed on]

----------


## AmiMizuno

True. One thing that might help is one what should Dick do for a living? Another thing is maybe He should be the last option for the Bats. I feel with his skill and knowledge he should be when things get so crazy they need Dick. LIke he shouldn't appear in every single thing only special events.

Anyway, Damian trying to be good at really interesting. Not only that but him looking at the Robin role is interesting. That he feels is he the right fit.

----------


## AmiMizuno

True. One thing that might help is one what should Dick do for a living? Another thing is maybe He should be the last option for the Bats. I feel with his skill and knowledge he should be when things get so crazy they need Dick. LIke he shouldn't appear in every single thing only special events.

Anyway, Damian trying to be good at really interesting. Not only that but him looking at the Robin role is interesting. That he feels is he the right fit.

----------


## CPSparkles

> True. One thing that might help is one what should Dick do for a living? Another thing is maybe He should be the last option for the Bats. I feel with his skill and knowledge he should be when things get so crazy they need Dick. LIke he shouldn't appear in every single thing only special events.
> 
> Anyway, Damian trying to be good at really interesting. Not only that but him looking at the Robin role is interesting. That he feels is he the right fit.


I liked Dick as a spy or a private eye. He needs a job that's flexible and where he makes his hours and manages his own workload.
Makes it easier to juggle with his hero activities.

While I like the idea of Dick not being go to guy for Bruce there's not any other person in the family that is experienced enough, reliable enough and who command enough respect to the level that they can get every member of the family to follow without complaints.

Kate and Babs come to mind but I haven't seen evidence to support this while in Dick's case we have many. Even in Robin war Jason and Tim knew well to call in Dick since they knew that he was the only one that Damian would obey. Duke as we saw had nothing but the greatest respect for Dick. Same with Steph and cass who all followed when he was Batman.

There is no one else sadly. Alfred's antics in the new 52 instantly eliminates him plus he's too old

----------


## CPSparkles

[Since we've been talking about them] 

I love these guys





https://dark-winged.tumblr.com

----------


## CPSparkles

Damian and Jason




https://nac-nic.tumblr.com



https://drawing-cookie.tumblr.com




https://neebluarts.tumblr.com

----------


## AmiMizuno

I love these two. It really makes me wonder how Damian will see Dick in the future. In a sense he will hold respect for him but will it be a different kind of respect than he has with his father. This also makes me wonder how is his other relationships with the others? Or even the JL

To be honest I often thought Jason would have been the one Damian bonded with more

----------


## Jackalope89

> I love these two. It really makes me wonder how Damian will see Dick in the future. In a sense he will hold respect for him but will it be a different kind of respect than he has with his father. This also makes me wonder how is his other relationships with the others? Or even the JL
> 
> To be honest I often thought Jason would have been the one Damian bonded with more


You'd think, with all that they have in common, but they probably have the worst relationship of the Bat Family right now.

----------


## AmiMizuno

I mean how much do they have in common? I mean they both are violent. Both feel betrayed or harmed by Bruce in a sense. Didn’t have the best father figure. By that I mean Jason’s dad was a criminal and Damian’s grandfather is a villain. Talia isn’t better

----------


## Jackalope89

> I mean how much do they have in common? I mean they both are violent. Both feel betrayed or harmed by Bruce in a sense. Didn’t have the best father figure. By that I mean Jason’s dad was a criminal and Damian’s grandfather is a villain. Talia isn’t better


Both had a good amount of time in the League of Assassins and strained relationships (to say the least) with Talia. Both died horrific deaths and were brought back to life later on. Talia also introduced Damian to Bruce, and Jason to Ducra of the All-Caste (ancient order of good assassins).

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## CPSparkles

> I love these two. It really makes me wonder how Damian will see Dick in the future. In a sense he will hold respect for him but will it be a different kind of respect than he has with his father. This also makes me wonder how is his other relationships with the others? Or even the JL
> 
> To be honest I often thought Jason would have been the one Damian bonded with more


I hope their relationship only gets better. It's unlikely that he'll ever have anything but respect for Dick. He has a different sort of respect and a different type of bond with Dick than he does Dick. Bruce he used to hero worship but that's since changed but he still wants to make him proud and earn his love.

Dick he fears losing the love he knows Dick has for him but I also think that he holds Dick to a higher standard. He's never messed up so Damian will feel it more if he does mess up.
Damian is also very insecure about the fact that Bruce counts on and holds Dick in high esteem. he is also insecure because he fears he'll never be as good as Dick and he'll never be as accepted.

The current JL
Ollie, Superman - like him
Flash thinks he's a bad influence but is protective
During No Justice the adult heroes respect, recognise and have acknowledged his skills but some seem to put up him kinda like an annoying bug

Damian is a reverse Jason so he's the one person he's unlikely to bond with. Killer who went on to become a hero [Robin] It;s like asking a drug addict to bond with someone who's just given up drugs.

[I know Jason hasn't killed in a while] Unlike Damian who went on a journey seeking redemption for his misdeeds and who is remorseful for his past. I don't think we've had a redemption arc for Jason and since he had an agreement with Bruce about not killing in Gotham that leads one to believe that he isn't adverse to killing, isn't remorseful therefore isn't in need of redemption.

Therefore the thing's they haves in common are a rubbish dad, worse mum,dying and coming back. i don't think those are things that either of them want to share a cup of tea discussing. Those are negative things so they'll never really bond over those not to mention that since Steph and Dick have also died and come back [and Damian likes them a lot more] if he needs to talk about that then he'll most likely go to them.


Jason is everything that Damian is actively fighting and working towards not becoming. It'll be hitting the rewind button for Damian so even though Jason has reached out Damian has never accepted [aside from the dubious current TT run]

Jason and Damian aren't alike like most think and their journeys are a reversal.

----------


## CPSparkles

> I mean how much do they have in common? I mean they both are violent. Both feel betrayed or harmed by Bruce in a sense. Didn’t have the best father figure. By that I mean Jason’s dad was a criminal and Damian’s grandfather is a villain. Talia isn’t better


They have a few things in common but not anymore than any other of the other Bat kids. 
All the boys have a bad dad in Bruce
Cass has a criminal father, grew up in the LoA.
Jason, Damian, Dick and cass were groomed, trained destined/chosen ones
Cass was to  be a main body guard for the Demon's head
Dick is the Gray Son
jason was introduced to the All caste
Damian was supposed to be the next Alexander the Great
Most of them have died and come back
3 have shitty mums

They have things in common but not anymore so than other batkids when you stop and think about it.

All the Bat kids are violent and 4 of them have killed [cass, damian, jason and Dick]

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## RLV_1996

I think the common ground is actually in the middle here  :Wink: 

What Damian, Cass and Jason have in common is their troubled childhood. From my perspective,  Jason and Damian are more simular in how they cope with it. 
They also have some character traits that you could recongnize in both of them. And what's important - both what to do good things, but have insecurities about their current place in hero community.

CPSparkles is right, i think, that current Damian would not reach out to Jason as their ways are going in reverse now, at least how Damian could see it. Considering how competitive he is toward previous Robins aside Dick, he has many reasons and insecurities to seek relationship from any of them at this time.

But Jackalope89 has a point, that their paths kinda rhyme (as one great director have said  :Wink:  ). And while their characters overhall are not that simular perhaps, it's those individual traits that make people often compare them. I think, it would make sense if not current Damian,but actually much older teenage Damian would seek the relationship with Jason, perhaps as a way to understand things about himself and how to cope with problems that Jason learned to cope.

But thats's just me thinking.

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## AmiMizuno

Thinking about it Damian won’t get the approval that he wants from Bruce.  I do think he will get it in something just not how he pictures it. A lot of the time Bruce often relies on Dick than any of the other Batkids. In a weird way that’s Bruce’s issue sure he doesn’t want to let anyone in. But he doesn’t need words to talk to Dick. Dick been there the longest. In a weird way Bruce isn’t the stable one for Damian to get approval

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## CPSparkles

> I think the common ground is actually in the middle here 
> 
> What Damian, Cass and Jason have in common is their troubled childhood. From my perspective,  Jason and Damian are more simular in how they cope with it. 
> They also have some character traits that you could recongnize in both of them. And what's important - both what to do good things, but have insecurities about their current place in hero community.
> 
> CPSparkles is right, i think, that current Damian would not reach out to Jason as their ways are going in reverse now, at least how Damian could see it. Considering how competitive he is toward previous Robins aside Dick, he has many reasons and insecurities to seek relationship from any of them at this time.
> 
> But Jackalope89 has a point, that their paths kinda rhyme (as one great director have said  ). And while their characters overhall are not that simular perhaps, it's those individual traits that make people often compare them. I think, it would make sense if not current Damian,but actually much older teenage Damian would seek the relationship with Jason, perhaps as a way to understand things about himself and how to cope with problems that Jason learned to cope.
> 
> But thats's just me thinking.


You make a valid point that I neglected to consider. The future and coping.

Damian doesn't have the best coping mechanisms and he needs to remedy that at some point. The only problem is that Jason hasn't really learnt how to cope properly either I don't think but he has learnt to at least distance himself from toxic relationships. An important lessons that Damian needs to learn and master

In the future they might find some common ground I hope.

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## CPSparkles

> Thinking about it Damian won’t get the approval that he wants from Bruce.  I do think he will get it in something just not how he pictures it. A lot of the time Bruce often relies on Dick than any of the other Batkids. In a weird way that’s Bruce’s issue sure he doesn’t want to let anyone in. But he doesn’t need words to talk to Dick. Dick been there the longest. In a weird way Bruce isn’t the stable one for Damian to get approval


Agree totally. Poor Dick he has a lot to carry. Even more reason for Dick to take  a step back

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## AmiMizuno

This is why in a weird way I often consider Dick the second in charge. He always is the one who is more stable. Like Alfred is the grounded one. I’m often surprised Dick doesn’t the mental  break downs. He literally helps all the Batfam. This is why I kind of would like what would happen and  not in rude way step back too. Bruce isn’t pity but now that Alfred dead. Bruce really doesn’t have anyone to talk to. If Dick leaves how worst would it also get for all the Batkids and Bruce? Dick is respected by even the villains. That he wants sometime to himself. His mental health stable and strong but I actually would love to see that. Where He steps back and takes care of himself. I mean we see what happens in one of the animated movies where he helps his family more than spending time with Starfire. What if and it doesn’t have to be Starfire. He goes for a relationship and takes this time to be with someone. I wonder if Damian would even try to destroy it. He isn’t good at coping.

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## RLV_1996

> This is why in a weird way I often consider Dick the second in charge. He always is the one who is more stable. Like Alfred is the grounded one. I’m often surprised Dick doesn’t the mental  break downs. He literally helps all the Batfam. This is why I kind of would like what would happen and  not in rude way step back too. Bruce isn’t pity but now that Alfred dead. Bruce really doesn’t have anyone to talk to. If Dick leaves how worst would it also get for all the Batkids and Bruce? Dick is respected by even the villains. That he wants sometime to himself. His mental health stable and strong but I actually would love to see that. Where He steps back and takes care of himself. I mean we see what happens in one of the animated movies where he helps his family more than spending time with Starfire. What if and it doesn’t have to be Starfire. He goes for a relationship and takes this time to be with someone. I wonder if Damian would even try to destroy it. He isn’t good at coping.


You mean destroy Dick’s relationship with someone? Come on, why would he do that? :Confused: 

Damian is insecure, can be rude and harsh, sure, but he is not a sociopath, he kinda gets that Dick would dislike that. Dick is a great person, but he is not saint, stuff like that would quickly deteriorate relationship between them.

But he would definitely comment on such relationship, likely with sarcasm and putting Dick’s new partner in a bad light.

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## CPSparkles

> This is why in a weird way I often consider Dick the second in charge. He always is the one who is more stable. Like Alfred is the grounded one. I’m often surprised Dick doesn’t the mental  break downs. He literally helps all the Batfam. This is why I kind of would like what would happen and  not in rude way step back too. Bruce isn’t pity but now that Alfred dead. Bruce really doesn’t have anyone to talk to. If Dick leaves how worst would it also get for all the Batkids and Bruce? Dick is respected by even the villains. That he wants sometime to himself. His mental health stable and strong but I actually would love to see that. Where He steps back and takes care of himself. I mean we see what happens in one of the animated movies where he helps his family more than spending time with Starfire. What if and it doesn’t have to be Starfire. He goes for a relationship and takes this time to be with someone. I wonder if Damian would even try to destroy it. He isn’t good at coping.



Dick is the child and Bruce is the parent. It is unfair for Bruce to keep adopting and having all these kids that he then shifts responsibility to Dick.

bruce recruits and uses the kids in his war and others have to pick up the pieces when they inevitably break. Dick's future is important and Bruce needs to learn to be hands on.

lending a hand is fine but one person should never be expected to carry all the responsibility. Dick as the eldest will always bear some of the burden but not all. Thankfully the Family only has 2 minors the rest are adults who can take care of themselves. Tim and Damian are the only ones still dependant [Duke has a stable parental figure already]

Bruce has people to talk to. He's surrounded by them. Clark, Selina, Fox, Kate. Bruce has never been short of a support network. 

Damian would never try to destroy Dick's relationship. We already know this because in the same story where he feared that Dick was going to replace him with his new kid how did he respond. he insisted on helping Dick rescue Shawn even when Dick yelled at him and told him to get lost.

Damian was willing to dive and help Dick save the woman who he believed was carrying his child knowing that this action increased his chances of losing Dick because he cares for Dick more than he fears loses him.

Dick's happiness means more to Damian.

Shawn and Dick's possible unborn child were at risk and he choose to help save them.

----------


## CPSparkles

> You mean destroy Dick’s relationship with someone? Come on, why would he do that?
> 
> Damian is insecure, can be rude and harsh, sure, but he is not a sociopath, he kinda gets that Dick would dislike that. Dick is a great person, but he is not saint, stuff like that would quickly deteriorate relationship between them.
> 
> But he would definitely comment on such relationship, likely with sarcasm and putting Dick’s new partner in a bad light.


he won't even do that.

In Rebirth Nightwing we had the extract scenario that AmiMzuno is describing: Dick's in a serious relationship and is about to have a child with his new partner. Damian did use sarcasm but didn't try to paint Shawn in a bad light.

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## RLV_1996

> he won't even do that.
> 
> In Rebirth Nightwing we had the extract scenario that AmiMzuno is describing: Dick's in a serious relationship and is about to have a child with his new partner. Damian did use sarcasm but didn't try to paint Shawn in a bad light.


I meant more like sarcastic comments about things that he might not like in Dick’s gf, not setting her up or anything like that
Not sure if that happened anywhere, but this seems like something Damian might do, IMHO

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## AmiMizuno

True I don’t ever see him doing that to Dick. It’s just sometimes writers are questionable with his actions. 

That’s true but at times Bruce won’t even talk to Selina but would talk to Dick. Not only that but even thought they are adults at times due to Bruce they turn to Dick. That’s the issue.  Bruce still is set in his ways. Selina doesn’t always know what Bruce does but Dick generally finds out sooner than most

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## CPSparkles

> I meant more like sarcastic comments about things that he might not like in Dick’s gf, not setting her up or anything like that
> Not sure if that happened anywhere, but this seems like something Damian might do, IMHO


Oh okay i get you  :Smile:  he did do that to Kori in the comics but not while they were dating. I don't recall if he did that to Kori in the DCAU where they are dating.

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## RLV_1996

> Oh okay i get you  he did do that to Kori in the comics but not while they were dating. I don't recall if he did that to Kori in the DCAU where they are dating.


That’s interesting, perhaps he is more delicate in those things then I actually thought..  :Big Grin:

----------


## Fergus

Batman Tales was a treat. The kids loved it.
Hope we get more titles like these.




also this is a thing



 I guess the Japanese fans really liked Batman ninja

----------


## Fergus

> You make a valid point that I neglected to consider. The future and coping.
> 
> Damian doesn't have the best coping mechanisms and he needs to remedy that at some point. The only problem is that Jason hasn't really learnt how to cope properly either I don't think but he has learnt to at least distance himself from toxic relationships. An important lessons that Damian needs to learn and master
> 
> In the future they might find some common ground I hope.


Cass is also a bat who had the same issues AND is coping better. I think she'll be the one that Damian reaches out to. We already know he wants to get to know her better and seems to respect her skills.

----------


## AmiMizuno

I mean Damian what are Damian’s great skills ? We get his fear of being replaced but what also makes him likable ?

----------


## sifighter

> Oh okay i get you  he did do that to Kori in the comics but not while they were dating. I don't recall if he did that to Kori in the DCAU where they are dating.


I can’t remember which movie it was but I do remember a scene in one of the recent DCAMU movies that Damian was “cool” with Dick and Starfire, I think it might have been Judas Contract because they moved into together in that movie but could be wrong.

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## AmiMizuno

Yea it was Judas Contract where Dick and Starfire moved in.

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## sifighter

Alright, glad I managed to remember that. Personally I really like those movies and I also like where it honestly seems with every couple of movies Damian is getting older, he’s definitely older then he is in the comics for the art we’ve seen of him in Apokolips wars.

Although I will admit it’s a bit strange whenever in those films they hint at a relationship with him and Raven and then we see/think back to the comics that she’s definitely older then him. Though the dog scene at the end of Judas Contract between them was nice.

----------


## AmiMizuno

Yea I thought that was weird. I wonder how would he act in a relationship? especially with Raven's power.

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## RLV_1996

> I can’t remember which movie it was but I do remember a scene in one of the recent DCAMU movies that Damian was “cool” with Dick and Starfire, I think it might have been Judas Contract because they moved into together in that movie but could be wrong.


If we look at DCAMU, he was cool with Bruce and Selina dating either in Batman Hush, but he did call her a “trollop” and asked his dad to cover his drink.  :Big Grin:

----------


## Blue22

To be fair, he of all people should know what happened the last time Bruce accepted a drink from a love interest.

----------


## sifighter

> Yea I thought that was weird. I wonder how would he act in a relationship? especially with Raven's power.


Who knows really, when it comes to the animated movie universe I like that time moves forward and progresses so we essentially might end up with a Damian who is very different from the one we know in the comics. One who’s been around a few years, has aged, maybe gets a relationship, has a somewhat better relationship with Bruce, and is actually friends with the Teen Titans somewhat. Although I’d take a guess that he’s not gonna get along too well with animated movie verse Superboy/Conner then he would with Jon, something tells me Conner’s gonna get on his nerves.

----------


## dietrich

> I mean Damian what are Damians great skills ? We get his fear of being replaced but what also makes him likable ?


Being enhanced his skill's range everywhere from his impressive artistic talents [musician, artist, actor, comedian] to technical and electrical skills like [building a flying car to hacking the JL data base] to animal whisperer [including mythical creatures like Dragons] to fighting skills to insane marksman skills to Super Detective skills to being able to will his vital organs to move/shift position.

Damian's skills are meme worthy and ridiculous. He is after all a parody of Batman's.

but his skills don't make him likeable. At least not to me. What makes him likable to me is his sense of humour, his spirit, his tenacity and his entire story.

He's a hero with a big heart
He's generosity { He gives the best gifts both material and otherwise}
He's love of animals and small kids
he's flawed and he's human. Makes a lot of mistakes but doesn't ever stop trying.
He's a fighter who just won't back down no matter the odds. great example the fight that led to his death in Batman Inc is to me his finest moment and has almost everything that makes him likeable. His Loyalty, love of small kids, big heart, fighting spirit, sense of humour, tenacity, courage, vulnerability and he's big genuine heart.

Most of all I find his strength inspirational. The kid has been through some shit and has a lot working against who he wants to be and how he wants others to treat him but he keeps fighting.

Plus the kid is funny as hell.

I did a whole essay on why I like the kid so much that's on the other Appreciation thread. I find and link it when I have the time.

----------


## dietrich

[QUOTE=RLV_1996;4848924]


> I think you are right.
> 
> I am all for that all robins got fair treatment, they all have unique traits that should make it easy to distinguish them without unnessesary overshadowing.
> 
> But establishement of one character at the expense of others seems to be the way now in all comics in general. For most part, edittors or writers seems to unwilling to constribute time and effort for smooth transition of passing the mantle to next person, so new drama is created as reason, or character is simply written off.


To be honest the only passing of mantle that I think was done poorly was Jason's to Tim. Robin Damian is the thing that got me into comics so this might sound odd but I think that Robin should have ended when Jason died or at least Bruce should have taken a significant amount of time off to mourn his son [Jason], cherish the son he still had [Dick] before endangering another person's son [Tim]

It was insensitive as hell.

----------


## dietrich

> Yea I thought that was weird. I wonder how would he act in a relationship? especially with Raven's power.


Considering Raven's skill set I hope he keeps his sass in check  :Stick Out Tongue: 

I like their relationship in that Universe. It doesn't have to be romantic just think it's cool that he found someone who gets him and can see him. Can see the real Damian

----------


## dietrich

> Damian is a kid who's trying to overcome the handicapped of his birth and past. He isn't trying to be a good person he IS a good person.
> He decided to help make sure the world is a better place where innocents don't suffer the second he was exposed to normal society outside of the cult that had been his whole world to then.
> 
> That is a very very normal story. The world is full of stories of people who grew up in cults or closed off environments and their issues when integrating to normal society and how their behaviour differs from those of the 'normal' society as you and I define it.
> 
> Even just people that have been kidnapped and spend a long time in captivity away from the society and world as we know it at times completely change their world view, morality and behaviour due to the environment they are held in.
> This doesn't mean they are Bad people similarly Damian isn't isn't a bad person. No one who willingly gave their lives twice for others. Who patrols and endangers their life everyday for others is already a good person.
> 
> Damian faces consequences everyday for being a jerk. No one like him that is is the consecequence of jerky before behaviour [don't think they they execute people for being jerks]
> ...


This. So much this. 

Re the Supersons side of the comment. 

I might have big issues with Supersons but I still enjoyed it and recognise that it had lots of pro's.
I just felt that it was watered down Damian + wasn't too jazzed about some fans now seeing Damian solely as part of a twin pack. They are the Supersons but they are also Damian Wayne and Jon Kent. Characters that exist on their own

----------


## dietrich

> That's what makes Damian interesting, he's a jerk who is trying to become a good person or at least a less bad one. There are jerk characters and you like them because they are authentic in their jerkish way and they are horrible and once in a blue moon they faced consequences and it's right, but after that they are still jerks. 
> 
> Supersons is a great disservice for Damian, the most forced 'friendship' ever literally their fathers pushed that friendship, Jon was this generic cute and dull kid who always ended up doing what Damian wanted and Damian was a childish watered down him, he didn't have a childhood and a friend won't give him that, and he also wants respect and be treated as older than he is and SS created the opposite effect and an issue I find disconcerting is: why would a teen Damian like  want to be friend with kid Jon? DC wanted a kind of ying yang, they had that effect with Dick, until they ruined him.


I will refer you to the above post by CPSparkles. They said it all much better than I could have. Particularly their response to the your 1st paragraph.

Fyi Jerk doesn't mean bad person just like nice doesn't mean good or decent person.

I do however agree that Supersons did Damian a disservice in how they watered down his character, ignored past relationships and used him as a scapegoat for bad thing's Jon might do moving forward. That was shady as hell.

----------


## RLV_1996

[QUOTE=dietrich;4853178]


> To be honest the only passing of mantle that I think was done poorly was Jason's to Tim. Robin Damian is the thing that got me into comics so this might sound odd but I think that Robin should have ended when Jason died or at least Bruce should have taken a significant amount of time off to mourn his son [Jason], cherish the son he still had [Dick] before endangering another person's son [Tim]
> 
> It was insensitive as hell.


I kinda think so as well, that Bruce should have at least re-evaluated this Robin thing after Jason.

But what I was referring to by poor passing of mantle is that almost every Robin took issue with them being replaced. In current canon, I think even Dick took issue with being replaced by Jason, Jason in turn took issue with Tim and Tim with Damian. And perhaps it could have been avoided in cases of Dick - Jason and Tim - Damian transition, but cant really say for sure.

----------


## Blue22

> Considering Raven's skill set I hope he keeps his sass in check 
> 
> I like their relationship in that Universe. It doesn't have to be romantic just think it's cool that he found someone who gets him and can see him. Can see the real Damian


I liked it as a good friendship but nothing more than that.  I thought it was just the BBRae shipper in me talking at first but the more I thought about it, the more I just don't think Damian and Raven are compatible in that way. They have a bit in common and I'm sure they can relate to each other fairly well. But that's about it.

----------


## Digifiend

> I kinda think so as well, that Bruce should have at least re-evaluated this “Robin” thing after Jason.
> 
> But what I was referring to by poor passing of mantle is that almost every Robin took issue with them being replaced. In current canon, I think even Dick took issue with being replaced by Jason, Jason in turn took issue with Tim and Tim with Damian. And perhaps it could have been avoided in cases of Dick - Jason and Tim - Damian transition, but can’t really say for sure.


How can Jason have taken issue with Tim? He was dead!

----------


## RLV_1996

> How can Jason have taken issue with Tim? He was dead!


I obviously meant after he came back to life, their relationship was not friendly at first.

----------


## Fergus

> How can Jason have taken issue with Tim? He was dead!


Jason took to dressing up as Robin
tried to blow up Tim and tried to kill him several times 
kept calling him replacement

Seems to me like Jason had a big issue with Tim replacing him.

----------


## dietrich

> Batman Tales was a treat. The kids loved it.
> Hope we get more titles like these.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> also this is a thing
> 
> 
> ...


How is this even a thing?
Why is this even a thing? 
I'm also very interested. It sounds crazy as fuck.

batman Tales was okay but a tad too sickly sweet for me. Lil' Gotham was far superior imo.

Also noticed that the only Damian pet featured was the one that was created by this particular writer. The trend continues.

----------


## AmiMizuno

I'm curious. What relationships would you want writers to show? I mean show we have Dick which most like. I mean how does Damian even feel about this whole Rick storyline?

----------


## Fergus

> I'm curious. What relationships would you want writers to show? I mean show we have Dick which most like. I mean how does Damian even feel about this whole Rick storyline?


I think it's shocking that we have pretty much no interactions between Damian and his aunt Kate or Barbara Gordon.
Barbara and Damian have what seems to be a good relationship. I want to see more.

----------


## sifighter

> I'm curious. What relationships would you want writers to show? I mean show we have Dick which most like. I mean how does Damian even feel about this whole Rick storyline?


Honestly I want more exploration outside of the teen titans with him and Wallace West/Kid Flash. Wallace has probably at this point been the hero nearest his age outside of Jon that he regularly works with, being on the teen titans together the longest out of anyone in the Rebirth/No Justice era of the book. Obviously their working relationship is different then his with Jon but I imagine there has to be some kind of acquaintanceship there for the two of them to continually work together. I mean think about it at this point I think Damian's been working with Wallace longer then he has with Jon.

----------


## dietrich

> Honestly I want more exploration outside of the teen titans with him and Wallace West/Kid Flash. Wallace has probably at this point been the hero nearest his age outside of Jon that he regularly works with, being on the teen titans together the longest out of anyone in the Rebirth/No Justice era of the book. Obviously their working relationship is different then his with Jon but I imagine there has to be some kind of acquaintanceship there for the two of them to continually work together. I mean think about it at this point I think Damian's been working with Wallace longer then he has with Jon.


Agree. I'd like more interactions between him and Wallace and other characters outside of the TT and the Bats.

I like his relationship with Wallace and their history. The little bits we've got of them so far outside of the TT's book [In deathstoke] was nice.

Maya is another character that I'd like to see more of their relationship.

----------


## dietrich

> I'm curious. What relationships would you want writers to show? I mean show we have Dick which most like. I mean how does Damian even feel about this whole Rick storyline?


The 2nd Nightwing Annual covers Damian's reaction to the Ric arc

----------


## Blue22

> I'm curious. What relationships would you want writers to show?


Bring Maya back into the fold, you cowards! She was there for him before Jon *and* the Titans!

Aside from that, I'm really only holding out hope for Colin. 

I don't particularly like Wallace so I don't care if they never interact again once this TT run is over. I like his relationship with Djinn but that's looking more and more like it's gonna come to a tragic end. Seeing him work with Emiko some more might be cool. I still wanna see him working alongside Jason and Cass. Always thought they'd make an interesting temporary trio.

----------


## Arctic Cyclist

> How is this even a thing?
> Why is this even a thing? 
> I'm also very interested. It sounds crazy as fuck.
> 
> batman Tales was okay but a tad too sickly sweet for me. Lil' Gotham was far superior imo.
> 
> Also noticed that the only Damian pet featured was the one that was created by this particular writer. The trend continues.


Titus and Alfred were in the book. It's missing the dragon, Batcow, Goliath, and oddly enough, several of the Lil Gotham pets.

Ninja is entertaining, but most Damian fans hate it as Damian a) has the traditional haircut of the heir to the head of the Japanese household, and b) he's a happy, cheerful little bean of a kid. Which makes sense to me: he's spent a year hanging out with Dick and not having anyone try to kill or brainwash him. Of course he's happy. Plus he has a monkey, the monkey has a mate, and a whole troop that has adopted Damian and taught him to play the flute.

It's utterly bizarre and very Japanese which makes it utterly delightful for the most part. Could have done without the cheesecake but it's an anime made for males. There will be cheesecake.

----------


## Digifiend

> I think it's shocking that we have pretty much no interactions between Damian and his aunt Kate or Barbara Gordon.
> Barbara and Damian have what seems to be a good relationship. I want to see more.


Batwoman isn't his aunt. An aunt would be Bruce's sister, not his cousin. So their relationship is cousin once removed.

----------


## Katana500

> I think it's shocking that we have pretty much no interactions between Damian and his aunt Kate or Barbara Gordon.
> Barbara and Damian have what seems to be a good relationship. I want to see more.


I think Damian would probably respect Barbara quite alot. Seems pretty much all the Robins do.  I feel like Barbara would probably be able to deal with Damian's attitude aswell. I've certainly enjoyed the very few interactions we have had between them in the past.

526385f51f8a7eeaa17a18508f6c7cb3.jpg

42d9959016ffe08157e27901a9c43734.jpg


I feel like Kate probably wouldn't like dealing with any of Damian's arrogance though I expect he would probably respect her too

----------


## sifighter

So apparently there was a preview of Apokolips war or something because someone sent out an image of Damian from the movie, and gotta say...Jons not making any fun of his height in this one. Its pretty clear that Damian has definitely aged past his current point in the comics when it comes to the animated movie verse.

5FE559D6-2697-4A29-9856-2FE571CD5DB6.jpg

----------


## Katana500

> So apparently there was a preview of Apokolips war or something because someone sent out an image of Damian from the movie, and gotta say...Jon’s not making any fun of his height in this one. It’s pretty clear that Damian has definitely aged past his current point in the comics when it comes to the animated movie verse.
> 
> 5FE559D6-2697-4A29-9856-2FE571CD5DB6.jpg


I'm a fan of the design, post robin I wouldn't mind him wearing something like that. Though maybe with more colour - Green?

----------


## dietrich

> So apparently there was a preview of Apokolips war or something because someone sent out an image of Damian from the movie, and gotta say...Jon’s not making any fun of his height in this one. It’s pretty clear that Damian has definitely aged past his current point in the comics when it comes to the animated movie verse.
> 
> 5FE559D6-2697-4A29-9856-2FE571CD5DB6.jpg


This is interesting.  what is he wearing?

Theyu are really pushing these two huh? If the rumours are true and WB is bringing in people for Animation and other mediums into the comic  side I wonder what this will mean for Damian and the Bats?

----------


## dietrich

> Titus and Alfred were in the book. It's missing the dragon, Batcow, Goliath, and oddly enough, several of the Lil Gotham pets.
> 
> Ninja is entertaining, but most Damian fans hate it as Damian a) has the traditional haircut of the heir to the head of the Japanese household, and b) he's a happy, cheerful little bean of a kid. Which makes sense to me: he's spent a year hanging out with Dick and not having anyone try to kill or brainwash him. Of course he's happy. Plus he has a monkey, the monkey has a mate, and a whole troop that has adopted Damian and taught him to play the flute.
> 
> It's utterly bizarre and very Japanese which makes it utterly delightful for the most part. Could have done without the cheesecake but it's an anime made for males. There will be cheesecake.


Titus and Alfred were in it?! 

Man! I guess that shows how may attention must have been drifting. Good on Nguyen for using characters [pets] he didn't create. 

I too enjoyed the Batman ninja movie. It was crazy fun and refreshing. I just didn't expect a show.

----------


## Katana500

> This is interesting.  what is he wearing?
> 
> Theyu are really pushing these two huh? If the rumours are true and WB is bringing in people for Animation and other mediums into the comic  side I wonder what this will mean for Damian and the Bats?


Honestly It might be controversial but I would really not be opposed to a team based off the animated movies in the next reboot. Have Starfire and Nightwing leading and keep the team from the movies. Id also De-aging Raven and BeastBoy to be younger again since them being old never seems to work all that well.  Putting her and damian may annoy some folk but ive never been opposed to it, could be an interesting dynamic.

----------


## Blue22

I've been wanting some kind of series based on this team for a while but that's a *big* no to keeping Gar and Raven as kids. I'm glad they've finally been allowed to grow up with the rest of their team (if that 5G timeline is legit, then NTT has finally been completely restored, thank God). Damian I don't really care either way. Unlike Jon, he's been around long enough that I don't mind him being aged up now. But if he stays smol for a few more years, that's cool too.

----------


## Katana500

> I've been wanting some kind of series based on this team for a while but that's a *big* no to keeping Gar and Raven as kids. I'm glad they've finally been allowed to grow up with the rest of their team (if that 5G timeline is legit, then NTT has finally been completely restored, thank God). Damian I don't really care either way. Unlike Jon, he's been around long enough that I don't mind him being aged up now. But if he stays smol for a few more years, that's cool too.


What age are Raven and Beastboy even supposed to be. Some reason they seem way younger than Nightwing, Starfire and Cyborg.

----------


## shadow6743

I was reading the new Teen Titans issue the other day and I was thinking did Glass ever explain what Djinn was doing in the Batcave? I know he did it for certain plot reasons to make her a red herring but there has to be more than that. What was she doing?

----------


## Blue22

> What age are Raven and Beastboy even supposed to be. Some reason they seem way younger than Nightwing, Starfire and Cyborg.


I think they're kinda supposed to be back in the same age range as their NTT colleagues. I dunno. As far as I've seen, it's vague now. I'm not sure how old they are but they should probably be in their late teens or early twenties at the very least.

I really hate that they're still in the process of fixing themselves after the New 52 tried to make them a part of Tim's generation. The only NTT member who was (arguably) done even dirtier than those two was Vic.

----------


## dietrich

> Honestly It might be controversial but I would really not be opposed to a team based off the animated movies in the next reboot. Have Starfire and Nightwing leading and keep the team from the movies. Id also De-aging Raven and BeastBoy to be younger again since them being old never seems to work all that well.  Putting her and damian may annoy some folk but ive never been opposed to it, could be an interesting dynamic.


Aside from TT are have Raven and BB had notable success anywhere else?

They will keep being deaged since unlike Cyborg and Dick Grayson the majority of audiences know them as TT not to mention that the most popular and widely viewed TT product has them as teens. The next generation of Dc costumers are right now getting to know them in TTGO.

----------


## dietrich

> I think they're kinda supposed to be back in the same age range as their NTT colleagues. I dunno. As far as I've seen, it's vague now. I'm not sure how old they are but they should probably be in their late teens or early twenties at the very least.
> 
> I really hate that they're still in the process of fixing themselves after the New 52 tried to make them a part of Tim's generation. The only NTT member who was (arguably) done even dirtier than those two was Vic.


Are they trying to fix them though? They are on Tim's team in the Walmart specials. A comic intended to target new readers. 

How old were they in the Ink titles?

I don't think DC is doing a lot/doing a good job of 'fixing them' if that is what they are doing.

----------


## Blue22

> Are they trying to fix them though? They are on Tim's team in the Walmart specials. A comic intended to target new readers. 
> 
> How old were they in the Ink titles?
> 
> I don't think DC is doing a lot/doing a good job of 'fixing them' if that is what they are doing.


Hey, I didn't say they were doing a good job. But they're trying lol Some writers/artists are, at least

But putting them on the older Titans, showing previously established relationships with characters like Vic, this new apparent timeline outright saying that NTT is back in canon, and I think at one point in a Deathstroke book there was an implication that the Judas Contract happened. Things like that show there is at least some attempt being made to rectify things.

The Titans history is still a mess but there seem to be hints here and there that it's trying to repair itself.

----------


## dietrich

Damian and Goliath



https://twitter.com/ShadowSOVKA





https://twitter.com/sheilalvl


Break Time



https://twitter.com/yuki11_dc

----------


## dietrich

> I was reading the new Teen Titans issue the other day and I was thinking did Glass ever explain what Djinn was doing in the Batcave? I know he did it for certain plot reasons to make her a red herring but there has to be more than that. What was she doing?


I don't believe he did. I've not got the books with me to check.

----------


## CPSparkles

> If the rumours are true and WB is bringing in people for Animation and other mediums into the comic  side I wonder what this will mean for Damian and the Bats?


I honestly don't know how I feel about these sudden changes. Are there really going to be any changes when the majority of the decision makers are still around. 

Bringing in creatives from outside comics is fine so long as they know the lore and understand the universe and characters. If not then fans are worse off.

I just hope the same people who were making decisions during the new 52 when Damian died are still in charge at WB.They were the ones who stopped Dc from replacing him with Duke.

I also hope that WB has learnt the lessons to keep a close watch over what comics department's doing.

----------


## sifighter

> This is interesting.  what is he wearing?
> 
> Theyu are really pushing these two huh? If the rumours are true and WB is bringing in people for Animation and other mediums into the comic  side I wonder what this will mean for Damian and the Bats?


Honestly I'm fine if they get the animation creators working on the comics, not every animation project is perfect but that would mean they have some experience to an extent of working with the source material. A novelist is fine, but I'd rather have the up and coming animated movie writer who gets how to write the characters.

Like if the son of batman, Batman vs Robin, Justice League vs Teen Titans, or Judas Contract movie writers were to write for Damian that would be fine.

----------


## Aahz

> What age are Raven and Beastboy even supposed to be. Some reason they seem way younger than Nightwing, Starfire and Cyborg.


If you go by comics from Marv Wolfmans NTT era, Raven is about the same age as  Nightwing (maybe one year younger) and Beast Boy is 3 years younger then Nightwing (and roughly 4 years older than Jason Todd and 5 years older than Tim Drake).

----------


## dietrich

> Honestly I'm fine if they get the animation creators working on the comics, not every animation project is perfect but that would mean they have some experience to an extent of working with the source material. A novelist is fine, but I'd rather have the up and coming animated movie writer who gets how to write the characters.
> 
> Like if the son of batman, Batman vs Robin, Justice League vs Teen Titans, or Judas Contract movie writers were to write for Damian that would be fine.


I guess and lets not forget the BTAS seem to know the content and The YJ staff has love for a wide variety of of characters. Obscure ones as well. they've been very inclusive giving a chance to minority and LGBTq characters.

There's also the creatives from Tv  and streaming shows.

This could be positive. Comics seem to have this same pool of talent that keeps getting rotated and that's not good.

----------


## Rac7d*

So Damian and raven grown up, I am not opposed to it

----------


## Katana500

> So Damian and raven grown up, I am not opposed to it


ERpJ-jJWAAAbG2C.jpg

They defo look alot older!

Looks like they ended up together aswell.

----------


## Rac7d*

> ERpJ-jJWAAAbG2C.jpg
> 
> They defo look alot older!
> 
> Looks like they ended up together aswell.



This is why I can get behind the animated, growth is not undone, people can grow 
change moove on with their lives In 10 years the status of most characters has not changed and for what

literlly, except for beastboy who remain a boy forever

----------


## Katana500

> This is why I can get behind the animated, growth is not undone, people can grow 
> change moove on with their lives In 10 years the status of most characters has not changed and for what
> 
> literlly, except for beastboy who remain a boy forever


Yeah I really like the movie universe. Things seem to be moving forward which I like. Sometimes actual comics kinda feel stuck in the status quo.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Yeah I really like the movie universe. Things seem to be moving forward which I like. Sometimes actual comics kinda feel stuck in the status quo.




Birds of a feather

----------


## sifighter

> ERpJ-jJWAAAbG2C.jpg
> 
> They defo look alot older!
> 
> Looks like they ended up together aswell.


Like I said this is the oldest we have ever seen a naturally progressing/not alternate evil timeline Damian and I am happy to have that in my life. Again why I really like this cinematic universe over the live action one, don't mean any disrespect to that one just personal preference.

----------


## Blue22

> ERpJ-jJWAAAbG2C.jpg
> 
> They defo look alot older!
> 
> Looks like they ended up together aswell.


Awwww. Look at my son, all grown up....and stealing my other son's girl! DAMMIT DAMIAN!

----------


## Jackalope89

> Birds of a feather


SO, where is this from?

----------


## sifighter

> SO, where is this from?


Apparently the red son movie has a preview for apokolips war, someone posted images from said preview online and apparently a few of the images have older Damian and Raven.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Apparently the red son movie has a preview for apokolips war, someone posted images from said preview online and apparently a few of the images have older Damian and Raven.


Okay, thanks.

Now I have to sift through MORE DamainxRaven shipping stuff in teen titans fanfics.

----------


## CPSparkles

http://the-assbutt-garden.tumblr.com

----------


## CPSparkles

Damian and Raven isn't a ship I think about much but I like their dynamic in the animated universe and a romance between their counter parts in that universe is believable. The progression of their relationship feels organic so far.

----------


## Frontier

> So apparently there was a preview of Apokolips war or something because someone sent out an image of Damian from the movie, and gotta say...Jons not making any fun of his height in this one. Its pretty clear that Damian has definitely aged past his current point in the comics when it comes to the animated movie verse.
> 
> Attachment 93657


Yeah, you can tell by Stuart Allan's performance that he's aged over time. 

He's wearing Ra's armor?

----------


## sifighter

> Yeah, you can tell by Stuart Allan's performance that he's aged over time. 
> 
> He's wearing Ra's armor?


Beats me, I mean this is supposed to be the movie where the Justice League rallies everyone from Justice League Dark and the Teen Titans together to strike back at Darkseid for the crud he’s been pulling, especially in Death and reign of Superman so why Damian is in Ra’s outfit who knows. I mean there’s an image out there of Morbius Chair Batman so honestly who really knows.

----------


## AmiMizuno

In the comics who would be good for Damian to be in a relationship with ?

----------


## Blue22

> In the comics who would be good for Damian to be in a relationship with ?


Djinn. And...That's about it. There aren't a lot of female heroes/characters his age right now. Maps could have been fun but I don't think she'll ever be a thing outside of Gotham Academy (Does that even take place in the main universe?). If you ask tumblr shippers, they'll tell you Raven or Jon lol

Now that Irey West is back, that could be something....maybe...I don't know. He doesn't really have a lot of options and he's not a very social boy XD

----------


## Restingvoice

> Djinn. And...That's about it. There aren't a lot of female heroes/characters his age right now. Maps could have been fun but I don't think she'll ever be a thing outside of Gotham Academy (Does that even take place in the main universe?).


It does take place in the main universe because the school experienced Joker's Endgame, but their appearance was only limited to that title and Poison Ivy

----------


## CPSparkles

More from JLD 







So looks like something happens to make him go back to the LOA

----------


## Ansa

> More from JLD 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So looks like something happens to make him go back to the LOA


I'm not up to date with the animated universe, but I haven't seen Bruce or Dick in any of the promotional material, which is pretty strange. DC puts Batman in everything.
And the world seems to be in chaos. Maybe Bruce and a lot of other heroes are dead/missing?

----------


## Rac7d*

> More from JLD 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That’s proably where 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That’s proably where he is headed since he is being fired as robins

----------


## CPSparkles

> I'm not up to date with the animated universe, but I haven't seen Bruce or Dick in any of the promotional material, which is pretty strange. DC puts Batman in everything.
> And the world seems to be in chaos. Maybe Bruce and a lot of other heroes are dead/missing?


Dick was in the 1st promo shots as was Bruce. These are stills from the preview that was at the end of Red Son. They are likely making the rounds because... shipping

----------


## Ansa

> Dick was in the 1st promo shots as was Bruce. These are stills from the preview that was at the end of Red Son. They are likely making the rounds because... shipping


I watched a video that had more footage, and Bruce and Dick weren't in any of it. It doesn't look like they will play a huge role even if they're in it.
I saw a lot of Constantine, Superman, Raven and Damian. Wonder Women seemed to be under Darkseid's control, so maybe that's what happened to the Justice League.

----------


## CPSparkles

> I watched a video that had more footage, and Bruce and Dick weren't in any of it. It doesn't look like they will play a huge role even if they're in it.
> I saw a lot of Constantine, Superman, Raven and Damian. Wonder Women seemed to be under Darkseid's control, so maybe that's what happened to the Justice League.


From the spoilers I've seen it seems 

*spoilers:*
 They must be part of the heroes who were captured on Apokolips. The heroes you named aside from Damian are the big players who get a squad together to go save them. Batman was in the Morbious Chair though in the cast list the voice actors for Batman, Harley, Damian were at the bottom while the ones you name were at the top 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## shadow6743

> Djinn. And...That's about it. There aren't a lot of female heroes/characters his age right now. Maps could have been fun but I don't think she'll ever be a thing outside of Gotham Academy (Does that even take place in the main universe?). If you ask tumblr shippers, they'll tell you Raven or Jon lol
> 
> Now that Irey West is back, that could be something....maybe...I don't know. He doesn't really have a lot of options and he's not a very social boy XD


I have to say that is not a bad thing. I was worried when Damian got older they would couple him up with every breathing girl in DC Comics. Also I like both Damian's relationship with Djinn in the comics and Raven in the movies. Both present him in a tender way that fans normally don't get to see.

----------


## Katana500

> I have to say that is not a bad thing. I was worried when Damian got older they would couple him up with every breathing girl in DC Comics. Also I like both Damian's relationship with Djinn in the comics and Raven in the movies. Both present him in a tender way that fans normally don't get to see.


I hope Damian never ends up in a Nightwing situation. Where he ends up paired with alot of people - alot of the pairings end up popular and then they end up at each others throats. I'd much prefer them to just choose a love interest for him and stick with it, Damian doesn't really strike me as having a personality for lots of relationships, I think once he is with someone he would be pretty loyal.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I hope Damian never ends up in a Nightwing situation. Where he ends up paired with alot of people - alot of the pairings end up popular and then they end up at each others throats. I'd much prefer them to just choose a love interest for him and stick with it, Damian doesn't really strike me as having a personality for lots of relationships, I think once he is with someone he would be pretty loyal.


Well, he was loyal to Star way back when, but then someone decided screw up Dick's character going forward.

----------


## Yennefer

First of all... Why not post this sneak peek online? Pictures are out, spoilers are out and the plot has been revealed. It is tiring being super hyped and searching the net for essentially nothing. I really don't get DC's way of things.
Secondly, the fact that this will be the last DCAMU movie is sad. It means that this Damian ends and we have to stick with his Comics counterpart, which is often written poorly, with no intentions to face the character as nothing other than a simple plot device.
And thirdly.... Just tell me that the fact this very specific ship was confirmed means that we finally get a kiss... I am bored with Damian being stuck at his angsty, anti-social and immature boy-ish self and DC teases it all the time (With Raven or Djinn)...

----------


## Katana500

> First of all... Why not post this sneak peek online? Pictures are out, spoilers are out and the plot has been revealed. It is tiring being super hyped and searching the net for essentially nothing. I really don't get DC's way of things.
> Secondly, the fact that this will be the last DCAMU movie is sad. It means that this Damian ends and we have to stick with his Comics counterpart, which is often written poorly, with no intentions to face the character as nothing other than a simple plot device.
> And thirdly.... Just tell me that the fact this very specific ship was confirmed means that we finally get a kiss... I am bored with Damian being stuck at his angsty, anti-social and immature boy-ish self and DC teases it all the time (With Raven or Djinn)...


 Im pretty sure they will start a new Rebirth Movie Universe and I suspect Damian will appear there. The Raven-Damian ship seems pretty popular, so if they start a new movie universe things like that may carry over.

----------


## Rac7d*

> First of all... Why not post this sneak peek online? Pictures are out, spoilers are out and the plot has been revealed. It is tiring being super hyped and searching the net for essentially nothing. I really don't get DC's way of things.
> Secondly, the fact that this will be the last DCAMU movie is sad. It means that this Damian ends and we have to stick with his Comics counterpart, which is often written poorly, with no intentions to face the character as nothing other than a simple plot device.
> And thirdly.... Just tell me that the fact this very specific ship was confirmed means that we finally get a kiss... I am bored with Damian being stuck at his angsty, anti-social and immature boy-ish self and DC teases it all the time (With Raven or Djinn)...


Well he is a boy

Now he kinda grown so hopefully he can do more

----------


## Blue22

> I hope Damian never ends up in a Nightwing situation. Where he ends up paired with alot of people - alot of the pairings end up popular and then they end up at each others throats. I'd much prefer them to just choose a love interest for him and stick with it, Damian doesn't really strike me as having a personality for lots of relationships, I think once he is with someone he would be pretty loyal.


That's pretty much how I'm feeling. He doesn't need to be a playa like his brother or his Dad xD

----------


## Katana500

> That's pretty much how I'm feeling. He doesn't need to be a playa like his brother or his Dad xD


honestly more often or not when writers try make characters players it just ends badly and they come across as right pricks.

When one minute your telling one lass you love her utterly and she is your everything and the next your snogging some other person like a week later. Or in Dick's case you marry one and then have a sex with another before the wedding. (whoever's idea that was - it is just terrible)

----------


## Frontier

> More from JLD 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So looks like something happens to make him go back to the LOA


Welp, this ship is happening.

----------


## Blue22

I'm starting to get how TimXSteph shippers felt when Young Justice hooked him up with Cassie lol

Even when it's an alternate universe that I love, this ship still makes my eye twitch a little whenever I see it xD

----------


## Frontier

> I'm starting to get how TimXSteph shippers felt when Young Justice hooked him up with Cassie lol


I wouldn't have even minded it as much if they had actually showed the relationship on-screen, but nope. Off-screen kiss and hookup, and then it's all Tim ignoring Cassie. Bleh.

----------


## Rac7d*

> That's pretty much how I'm feeling. He doesn't need to be a playa like his brother or his Dad xD


He ain’t a playa he just crush alot

----------


## dietrich

> I hope Damian never ends up in a Nightwing situation. Where he ends up paired with alot of people - alot of the pairings end up popular and then they end up at each others throats. I'd much prefer them to just choose a love interest for him and stick with it, Damian doesn't really strike me as having a personality for lots of relationships, I think once he is with someone he would be pretty loyal.


I doubt he will. Damian is pretty closed off and bad at social interactions. His is blunt,sounds pompous and elitist I don't see him being a Dick Grayson.

----------


## dietrich

> First of all... Why not post this sneak peek online? Pictures are out, spoilers are out and the plot has been revealed. It is tiring being super hyped and searching the net for essentially nothing. I really don't get DC's way of things.
> Secondly, the fact that this will be the last DCAMU movie is sad. It means that this Damian ends and we have to stick with his Comics counterpart, which is often written poorly, with no intentions to face the character as nothing other than a simple plot device.
> And thirdly.... Just tell me that the fact this very specific ship was confirmed means that we finally get a kiss... I am bored with Damian being stuck at his angsty, anti-social and immature boy-ish self and DC teases it all the time (With Raven or Djinn)...


You forgot Kara in Injustice 2 I really enjoyed their flirting. However unlike that Damian who can turn on the charm I doubt Comic Damian is ever going to be so relaxed and sociable. I fear he's going to be like Bruce only worse.

----------


## Katana500

> I doubt he will. Damian is pretty closed off and bad at social interactions. His is blunt,sounds pompous and elitist I don't see him being a Dick Grayson.


Until bad writing comes along and ruins him!

----------


## Ansa

> Thats proably where he is headed since he is being fired as robins


I've been wondering if that's even possible right now. As far as I know Ra's currently isn't in control of the LOA, at least not according to Batman and the Outsiders if I remember correctly. Talia isn't in charge of Leviathan anymore and is working against her old organization with Checkmate.
The solicitations for Teen Titans in May make it sound like Damian disappeared and Mercy Hall got destroyed. It's all still pretty vague, but Bruce firing Damian, taking him with him and destroying Mercy Hall would be weird. It wouldn't fit with what we know about the Batman issues that come out in May.
Joker knows Damian's identity and we already know he's going after Dick and Barbara for the upcoming Joker War story. I'm wondering if Damian's just going to get kidnapped by Joker after Bruce is done with him to use him in his supposed final fight with Batman.

----------


## Arctic Cyclist

> I've been wondering if that's even possible right now. As far as I know Ra's currently isn't in control of the LOA, at least not according to Batman and the Outsiders if I remember correctly. Talia isn't in charge of Leviathan anymore and is working against her old organization with Checkmate.
> The solicitations for Teen Titans in May make it sound like Damian disappeared and Mercy Hall got destroyed. It's all still pretty vague, but Bruce firing Damian, taking him with him and destroying Mercy Hall would be weird. It wouldn't fit with what we know about the Batman issues that come out in May.
> Joker knows Damian's identity and we already know he's going after Dick and Barbara for the upcoming Joker War story. I'm wondering if Damian's just going to get kidnapped by Joker after Bruce is done with him to use him in his supposed final fight with Batman.


It's more likely that the TT Annual takes place before the kids go to hell and Damian is the one who doesn't make it back. He's set up to be the sacrifice, it matches the pattern of his previous sacrifices in Robin: Son of Batman and Batman Incorporated:

 -Actual or percieved rejection by his father and the family he's tried to join
 -A need to redeem himself for previous actions, in this case falling to do an extra sweep for bystanders before detonating the warehouse as well as the false imprisonment and mind wipes of the criminals the TT took down 
 -His own rejection of and refusing to join the criminal empire run by a family member 
 -Essentially homeless 
 -There is someone he cares about who needs saving 

Add in Elias specifically greeted Damian and talked about catching up along with informing Djinn that the TT coming to rescue her is part of his plan for getting into heaven and Damian's heroic sacrifice is heavily implied. We also know from the Batman promos that Bruce is going to lose another family member in April due to his actions and choices with all the set up in Pennyworth R.I.P. it's almost a given that Damian doesn't make it back.

Which takes us into 5G. It also creates a potential for Alfred's resurrection as TT has already mentioned that only a god can raise the dead, and if Damian loses his freedom due to fighting on the side of a god, Alfred being resurrected as a thank you makes sense. It's very magical girl trope, and Damian is consistently a gender bent magical girl character.

Damian being lost also puts Ra's's anger at Bruce into perspective as Superman/Batman has Ra's still being civil to borderline friendly, albeit he didn't offer Bruce any in flight refreshments, in today's issue. If Batman and the Outsiders is taking place a few months in the future (or weeks), Ra's wanting to destroy Bruce makes utter sense as al Ghuls only go completely off the deep end when they lose family members and can't get them back via Lazarus Pits.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Welp, this ship is happening.


Saw the video it’s so happeneing

----------


## dietrich

> It's more likely that the TT Annual takes place before the kids go to hell and Damian is the one who doesn't make it back. He's set up to be the sacrifice, it matches the pattern of his previous sacrifices in Robin: Son of Batman and Batman Incorporated:
> 
>  -Actual or percieved rejection by his father and the family he's tried to join
>  -A need to redeem himself for previous actions, in this case falling to do an extra sweep for bystanders before detonating the warehouse as well as the false imprisonment and mind wipes of the criminals the TT took down 
>  -His own rejection of and refusing to join the criminal empire run by a family member 
>  -Essentially homeless 
>  -There is someone he cares about who needs saving 
> 
> Add in Elias specifically greeted Damian and talked about catching up along with informing Djinn that the TT coming to rescue her is part of his plan for getting into heaven and Damian's heroic sacrifice is heavily implied. We also know from the Batman promos that Bruce is going to lose another family member in April due to his actions and choices with all the set up in Pennyworth R.I.P. it's almost a given that Damian doesn't make it back.
> ...


That would be a good direction for the story to go if not for the part that this will be the 3rd time he's died and he's only 13. Damian's Batfam's Kenny  :Stick Out Tongue: 

Maybe this is why he needs help from his long lost sister or why Bats steps back from Batman in 5g? either way Damian dying for a 3rd time is too much. If he does do then he should retire from activities that might kill him and Bruce should find an adult meta as his next sidekick [when he returns to Batmaning.

----------


## Katana500

I really hope they don't have Damian off the board for 5g. 

Would like to see an older Damian in the comics if only for a wee while

----------


## shadow6743

I almost feel like 5G isn't shaping up to be what Didio described anymore. Like has anyone heard anything about Luke Fox and the other so called replacements in any other books? If anything it looks like older continuity is being represented by different generations. We got Hakeem Thunder in Teen Titans and Donna's in Wonder Woman being Diana's sister. Also Wally bring back his children and the old Titans continuity. I really don't see any of the books ending especially once DC brought on Robbie Thompson for Teen Titans. If they were going to end the book they would have ended with Glass.

The feel I am getting is more like this series:

250px-Dcuniverselegacies.jpg

1344438-glew__003.jpg

Legacies is a great series for introducing new fans to the history of DC Comics especially people who came in during the New 52 or old fans who want to brush up on their DC Comics history.

----------


## dietrich

> I almost feel like 5G isn't shaping up to be what Didio described anymore. Like has anyone heard anything about Luke Fox and the other so called replacements in any other books? If anything it looks like older continuity is being represented by different generations. We got Hakeem Thunder in Teen Titans and Donna's in Wonder Woman being Diana's sister. Also Wally bring back his children and the old Titans continuity. I really don't see any of the books ending especially once DC brought on Robbie Thompson for Teen Titans. If they were going to end the book they would have ended with Glass.
> 
> The feel I am getting is more like this series:
> 
> 250px-Dcuniverselegacies.jpg
> 
> 1344438-glew__003.jpg
> 
> Legacies is a great series for introducing new fans to the history of DC Comics especially people who came in during the New 52 or old fans who want to brush up on their DC Comics history.


The set up has already started with WW and Flash + stuff like JL, JLD, VR are already winding up to the big finish that bring's together all of DC fractured worlds and timeline. Once this is done then the new line line will come into play.

Most ongoings are already wrapping up their runs/arcs.
DC has advertised the one shots for all the Generations including 5G and have already started releasing them.

5G is happening. It's a WB/AT&T initiative and it's due to launch in October.

My guess is the replacement's will pop up in once the story/events leading to heroes retiring/ageing up kicks off.

----------


## shadow6743

> The set up has already started with WW and Flash + stuff like JL, JLD, VR are already winding up to the big finish that bring's together all of DC fractured worlds and timeline. Once this is done then the new line line will come into play.
> 
> Most ongoings are already wrapping up their runs/arcs.
> DC has advertised the one shots for all the Generations including 5G and have already started releasing them.
> 
> 5G is happening. It's a WB/AT&T initiative and it's due to launch in October.
> 
> My guess is the replacement's will pop up in once the story/events leading to heroes retiring/ageing up kicks off.




I understand I wasn't saying it not happening more like it taking more care in establishing the five generations making up DC Comics. Which is very similar to the Legacies comics. They go through each generation of DC Comics heroes from the JSA to the Teen Titans using one shots. If anything seeing these similarities makes me more interested in the one shots at least.

----------


## dietrich

> I understand I wasn't saying it not happening more like it taking more care in establishing the five generations making up DC Comics. Which is very similar to the Legacies comics. They go through each generation of DC Comics heroes from the JSA to the Teen Titans using one shots. If anything seeing these similarities makes me more interested in the one shots at least.


Oh right. my bad I misunderstood  :Smile:

----------


## Ansa

> Damian being lost also puts Ra's's anger at Bruce into perspective as Superman/Batman has Ra's still being civil to borderline friendly, albeit he didn't offer Bruce any in flight refreshments, in today's issue. If Batman and the Outsiders is taking place a few months in the future (or weeks), Ra's wanting to destroy Bruce makes utter sense as al Ghuls only go completely off the deep end when they lose family members and can't get them back via Lazarus Pits.


I don't think the recent issues of Batman and the Outsiders take place in the future, if Damian was already dead Ra's would have mentioned it and Jefferson gave Bruce condolences only for Alfred's death. Bruce said that he blames himself, especially because it happened in front of Damian. Damian is still alive when that happened.

The solicitation for May does mention Ra's having lost his family though: "Ra's al Ghul has had everything taken away from him. His League of Assassins, his power...even his family. All he has left is his mission to bend the world to his will and save it from itself. He's more dangerous than ever, and it'll take the combined full might of the Outsiders team to take him down!"

Ra's talked about Bruce taking his family from him before, which is why he wants to take Duke and Cassandra from Bruce as revenge, so I didn't think much of it. But Damian dying would escalate the conflict even further and would explain why Ra's has only his mission to save the world from humanity left.
We know from Batman and Superman that Ra's still keeps tabs on Damian and the people he hangs out with.
It's also interesting that in Leviathan Dawn Talia said that she wanted to build Leviathan for her son. Despite their many conflicts both Ra's and Talia still see Damian as their heir.
Losing that heir (now with a Talia that is not crazy) might be interesting for their character developement as well. Ra's would definitely blame Bruce judging by the solicitation for May. Talia would lose part of the motivation that had guided her actions in the past.

----------


## Ansa

Jon might get confused though. All the people in the future telling him that his best friend is seen by many as something akin to Hitler and that they founded the Legion in part to prevent that and then he comes back for a visit and finds out he's dead.

----------


## Ansa

The solicitation for Teen Titans #42 does specifically say that the team is in tatters after their encounter with Batman though. So idk. The main cover for that issue has both Damian and Djinn missing.

The only way I see Damian being dead and the solicitation making sense is that either the solicitation is not accurate (not unusal) or that Batman would need to visit them two times. Once in the annual to confront Damian, then Damian and the team go on their mission and Damian dies, and Batman comes back after that to check on Damian/collect the body/whatever and confronts the team with whatever went down.

----------


## Katana500

> Jon might get confused though. All the people in the future telling him that his best friend is seen by many as something akin to Hitler and that they founded the Legion in part to prevent that and then he comes back for a visit and finds out he's dead.


I have a theory that Damian kills Jon in the future. Which is why the Legion of Superheroes would utterly hate him. 

I think Damian is going to be forced into a situation where he has to do something bad for the greater good, which results in him being percieved as a villian by the world who don't know the full story even when it is wholly unfair.

----------


## shadow6743

I don't think Damian or Djinn are dead and here is why. Teen Titans has certain tropes one of them being a team member leaving to figure out their new identity typically after a conflict involving or with their mentor. Think Wally or Dick in New Teen Titans both left the team for a bit before becoming the Flash and Nightwing. This explains Damian's absence from the book.

The other trope involves seemingly dead teammates Bart and Connor were both considered dead until they were brought back by the legion. Raven was thought to be dead at one point after a fight with Tigon if you want a older Titan example. I can't think of many Teen Titans characters that have stayed dead and that explains Djinn's absence. Glass and Thompson look like they are simply following the tropes of writing a Teen Titans book.

----------


## Yennefer

There is a high risk for a possible death of Damian. He is not wide-loved to people. However, I don't believe he will die...
There is no actual reason to.

----------


## Rac7d*

> There is a high risk for a possible death of Damian. He is not wide-loved to people. However, I don't believe he will die...
> There is no actual reason to.


Since when has dc cared if your loved or not. That just means he would live forever

----------


## RLV_1996

Actually, perception toward Damian has changed already, and he became kinda recognizable even outside the comics, while still being fresh and new. 
DC needs that now, considering how they are searching for new heroes that would work with this 5g, to attract new public into comics.

And clear sigh of Damian being more recognized is usage of him in artwork and crossover fanfics by non-DC fans. Also, numerous ships of him with DC characters and non-DC characters are gaining popularity now.

So, to get rid of him now for good, when he just started to become quite marketable, is like shooting in your own leg.

----------


## Katana500

> I don't think Damian or Djinn are dead and here is why. Teen Titans has certain tropes one of them being a team member leaving to figure out their new identity typically after a conflict involving or with their mentor. Think Wally or Dick in New Teen Titans both left the team for a bit before becoming the Flash and Nightwing. This explains Damian's absence from the book.
> 
> The other trope involves seemingly dead teammates Bart and Connor were both considered dead until they were brought back by the legion. Raven was thought to be dead at one point after a fight with Tigon if you want a older Titan example. I can't think of many Teen Titans characters that have stayed dead and that explains Djinn's absence. Glass and Thompson look like they are simply following the tropes of writing a Teen Titans book.


I think its defo more likely he comes back with a new identity rather than dies.

A new identity could either end up succesful like Nightwing or Red Hood or flounder a bit like Drake.

I have faith Damian could thrive with a new codename! though I guess their is always a risk DC messses it up and the character doesnt recover! lets hope that doesnt happen

----------


## Ansa

> I think its defo more likely he comes back with a new identity rather than dies.
> 
> A new identity could either end up succesful like Nightwing or Red Hood or flounder a bit like Drake.
> 
> I have faith Damian could thrive with a new codename! though I guess their is always a risk DC messses it up and the character doesnt recover! lets hope that doesnt happen


I don't know what to think about a new identity. He's only 13 years old, not like Dick or Jason who got a new identity that also showed that they're adults now.
Honestly, I'm not really excited for any option that seems to be on the horizon, mostly because I don't see DC putting enough time and effort into making it work.

----------


## Katana500

> I don't know what to think about a new identity. He's only 13 years old, not like Dick or Jason who got a new identity that also showed that they're adults now.
> Honestly, I'm not really excited for any option that seems to be on the horizon, mostly because I don't see DC putting enough time and effort into making it work.


wont be 13 years old once the 5g age ups happen though. I suspect at the end of the Teen Titans run we will see Damian return with a new identity which he will then use in 5G where im assuming he will aged up to 18 or 19?

----------


## sifighter

> wont be 13 years old once the 5g age ups happen though. I suspect at the end of the Teen Titans run we will see Damian return with a new identity which he will then use in 5G where im assuming he will aged up to 18 or 19?


I'm kind of the mind that I wouldn't mind a Damian age up, especially if he matches up with Jon. He has been around long enough that it is odd to me that he is only 13. Obviously that will mean aging up Tim but I've been of the mind that Tim should probably be in his early to near mid 20's.

----------


## Ansa

> wont be 13 years old once the 5g age ups happen though. I suspect at the end of the Teen Titans run we will see Damian return with a new identity which he will then use in 5G where im assuming he will aged up to 18 or 19?


...which would mean he would have a new identity at 13, which is exactly my problem.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I'm kind of the mind that I wouldn't mind a Damian age up, especially if he matches up with Jon. He has been around long enough that it is odd to me that he is only 13. Obviously that will mean aging up Tim but I've been of the mind that Tim should probably be in his early to near mid 20's.


Part of that time was in the middle of pre-Flashpoint and post-Flashpoint, which screwed around with about everyone's ages.

----------


## sifighter

> Part of that time was in the middle of pre-Flashpoint and post-Flashpoint, which screwed around with about everyone's ages.


I mean Jon's only 16 right now, wouldn't hurt to just say Damian is 15 or 16. It's a matter of 2 to 3 years that they could add since his birthday in Rebirth.

----------


## CPSparkles

> I have a theory that Damian kills Jon in the future. Which is why the Legion of Superheroes would utterly hate him. 
> 
> I think Damian is going to be forced into a situation where he has to do something bad for the greater good, which results in him being percieved as a villian by the world who don't know the full story even when it is wholly unfair.


There's already a future BatHitler who does bad things for the greater good. Why do we need a rehash.

I think it was really shady for bendis to have The LOSH say this to Damian who he has called names on his social media. 

He is writing YJ and started the HashtagTimDrakeisthebestRobin so you can't tell me he hasn't read TOT. He's taken Tim's Fascist batman from a alt universe and applied it to Damian in the main Universe and supported this bogus nickname with evidence that disproves the claim.

I din't think Damian is going to kill Jon. Forced or otherwise. Damian has killed lots before so don't need another Damian forced to kill or do something bad for the best intention.

Let Lois kill Jon that'd be much more original and fresh. 

Also why does jon need to die?

----------


## Digifiend

> I mean Jon's only 16 right now, wouldn't hurt to just say Damian is 15 or 16. It's a matter of 2 to 3 years that they could add since his birthday in Rebirth.


Actually, Jon's 17.

----------


## Yennefer

> Since when has dc cared if your loved or not. That just means he would live forever


DC wants profit. If the character is not accepted, then the character has to die. 
However, I do hope that what RVL_1996 (don't know how to reply to both of you at the same time) is true and they won't get him out of the way.
Besides he is their favourite tool.

----------


## Yennefer

> ...which would mean he would have a new identity at 13, which is exactly my problem.


I don't believe this is necessary. When he gets fired, it is more possible that he will spend time about spiritualness and self-balance/discovery. So he reappears with a new identity at an older age. In the meantime he could get a mentor, who could be like a father to him... I don't know, it would make sense to me to have this development.
However, I do not stick with the comics that much nor do I know as much as you guys know. 
So my speculations are far from a possible truth.

----------


## Yennefer

> There's already a future BatHitler who does bad things for the greater good. Why do we need a rehash.
> 
> I think it was really shady for bendis to have The LOSH say this to Damian who he has called names on his social media. 
> 
> He is writing YJ and started the HashtagTimDrakeisthebestRobin so you can't tell me he hasn't read TOT. He's taken Tim's Fascist batman from a alt universe and applied it to Damian in the main Universe and supported this bogus nickname with evidence that disproves the claim.
> 
> I din't think Damian is going to kill Jon. Forced or otherwise. Damian has killed lots before so don't need another Damian forced to kill or do something bad for the best intention.
> 
> Let Lois kill Jon that'd be much more original and fresh. 
> ...


In my opinion DC should leave that Hitler thing alone. 
I feel like it is disrespectful using people's death in order to make an impression and increase the profit by ensuring that fans will buy the next issues, in order to understand the bomb you threw on the comics.
Anyway, some things simply must not be touched.
And any writer who has a preference or has a specific something against characters, then -simply- must not write canon things.
They are hired in order to make the characters work on a plot or on a certain plan DC has about the way of things in the distant future and not to make their fanfiction a reality for the rest of us.
As far as Damian is concerned, Bendis reminds me of King and his own one-sided view of things that only serves BatCat.

Also, no offence about the writers.

----------


## Ansa

> I don't believe this is necessary. When he gets fired, it is more possible that he will spend time about spiritualness and self-balance/discovery. So he reappears with a new identity at an older age. In the meantime he could get a mentor, who could be like a father to him... I don't know, it would make sense to me to have this development.
> However, I do not stick with the comics that much nor do I know as much as you guys know. 
> So my speculations are far from a possible truth.


Of course DC could give Damian a new mentor and let him do some soul searching or whatever, I just don't think they want to put in the effort, not when they can use him as a) a lazy new antagonist or b) a tool to further Bruce's story. Or both.

----------


## Yennefer

(I forgot to answer with quotes and I don't know how to delete this post. I feel ridiculous)

----------


## Yennefer

> Of course DC could give Damian a new mentor and let him do some soul searching or whatever, I just don't think they want to put in the effort, not when they can use him as a) a lazy new antagonist or b) a tool to further Bruce's story. Or both.


Bruce gets to my nerves  :Big Grin: 
And I find his origin story more surreal than the whole DC universe. Don't ask me why, the answer will be solely logical and for some insensitive.
Fact is that HE IS (unfortunately) the center of the universe and he is toxic (I think a writer said that too). Like a black whole that pulls everything into darkness.
It was time Bruce moved on from this stage.
Also, wth doesn't  DC  understand? xD
Damian is a very relatable character.
The classic story of the flawed antihero, struggling to find his moral path and his place into the world, sometimes with a twisted sense of Justice.
The classic dilemma of goal and means...
The classic story of youth wanting to change the world.
Fight crime.
And the classic story of a misunderstood, however and in fact great, hero...

( Etc. )
Damian, with the background he has (batman as a father) had all the reasons to be both popular and spectacular.
In the classic literature it was characters like Damian that stood out and survived through the decades, not characters like f.e. Dick.
Because an already "perfect" (not entirely, but you get what I mean) character is completed and therefore boring.

(The fact that we all more or less agree with these and this post is actually a bit senseless.... But nonetheless I wanted to express how stupidly DC face things...)

----------


## shadow6743

> Of course DC could give Damian a new mentor and let him do some soul searching or whatever, I just don't think they want to put in the effort, not when they can use him as a) a lazy new antagonist or b) a tool to further Bruce's story. Or both.


I highly doubt that they are going to make him a villain DC comics has been trying to remove some of the characters edge for years. They created a book called Little Gotham showing his adventures as Robin in a kid friendly manner. They also feature him as a baby in Tiny Titans and as the Robin in DC Superhero Girls. DC has too much marketing going against them to make him a villain. 

Let's be honest about what's probably going to happen Djinn comes back some how sees Damian left finds him, tells him they are a team and they made those bad decisions together. Convinces him that regardless if he is Robin or not he can still be a hero Damian chooses a new code name and returns to the Titans determined to do better.

----------


## Ansa

> I highly doubt that they are going to make him a villain DC comics has been trying to remove some of the characters edge for years. They created a book called Little Gotham showing his adventures as Robin in a kid friendly manner. They also feature him as a baby in Tiny Titans and as the Robin in DC Superhero Girls. DC has too much marketing going against them to make him a villain. 
> 
> Let's be honest about what's probably going to happen Djinn comes back some how sees Damian left finds him, tells him they are a team and they made those bad decisions together. Convinces him that regardless if he is Robin or not he can still be a hero Damian chooses a new code name and returns to the Titans determined to do better.


No, actually DC is still on their "he will do something horrible in the future and will be hated by everyone" trip. And I said antagonist, not villain. There's a difference.
The shows have very little to do with what happens in comics, Dick is the main character in Titans and he's been stuck as Ric for over a year and the Titans don't even have a book anymore. Instead they're used as cannon fodder for the upcoming Death Metal event or got brainwashed to serve Darseid or whatever DC comes up with.
And DC had no problem giving Glass the okay to let Damian have a secret prison/torture chamber and to make him brainwash people, never trust DC to give a damn about character developement or making characters look bad.

Also, my problem is that I think that finding a permanent new identity for him at 13 is dumb. I don't care that we might get a timeskip to where he's older, I think he's too young.
All the titles wrap up soon. Even if what you predict happens, I doubt we would get to see much of Damian and the team actually trying to do better. And I can't stand team books that do that.

----------


## Ansa

And if DC really goes through with their plans to replace Bruce with another character like Luke Fox you can expect them to try and remove the competition. Got to find a reason why Luke is suddenly the only one who can protect Gotham.

----------


## Ansa

When I say that I don't think DC is willing to put much effort into making whatever comes next into a great Damian-centric story that will elevate his character I also say that with a look at what DC has been doing with the rest of the Robins.

Jason: Has the same mediocre writer since the beginning of New 52.

Dick: Got his own book derailed because King wanted to shoot him in the head for his Batman story and then Lobdell convinced DC it would be a good idea to turn Dick into Ric for what will probably end up being two years.

Tim: Hasn't been important in years, first fake died for several months, got back, run ended, he vanished for several months, returned as Robin for unknown reasons, got lost in the Multiverse and is a duck now. He also shares the book with 10+ other characters.

----------


## Godlike13

> When I say that I don't think DC is willing to put much effort into making whatever comes next into a great Damian-centric story that will elevate his character I also say that with a look at what DC has been doing with the rest of the Robins.
> 
> Jason: Has the same mediocre writer since the beginning of New 52.
> 
> Dick: Got his own book derailed because King wanted to shoot him in the head for his Batman story and then Lobdell convinced DC it would be a good idea to turn Dick into Ric for what will probably end up being two years.
> 
> Tim: Hasn't been important in years, first fake died for several months, got back, run ended, he vanished for several months, returned as Robin for unknown reasons, got lost in the Multiverse and is a duck now. He also shares the book with 10+ other characters.


So I guess obvious answer is that they should give him to Lobdell to work his magic  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Ansa

> So I guess obvious answer is that they should give him to Lobdell to work his magic


Or Bendis :Stick Out Tongue: 
Shoot me if that happens.

----------


## Blue22

> No, actually DC is still on their "he will do something horrible in the future and will be hated by everyone" trip. And I said antagonist, not villain. There's a difference.
> The shows have very little to do with what happens in comics, Dick is the main character in Titans and he's been stuck as Ric for over a year and the Titans don't even have a book anymore. Instead they're used as cannon fodder for the upcoming Death Metal event or got brainwashed to serve Darseid or whatever DC comes up with.
> And DC had no problem giving Glass the okay to let Damian have a secret prison/torture chamber and to make him brainwash people, never trust DC to give a damn about character developement or making characters look bad.
> 
> Also, my problem is that I think that finding a permanent new identity for him at 13 is dumb. I don't care that we might get a timeskip to where he's older, I think he's too young.
> All the titles wrap up soon. Even if what you predict happens, I doubt we would get to see much of Damian and the team actually trying to do better. And I can't stand team books that do that.


If DC's current timeline is anything to go by, he shouldn't be that much younger than Tim was when he became Red Robin. 

He's been Robin for, what, three years? Three and a half? Four? And Tim's gotta be like 17 or 18 at this point. He'd only be a year or two younger than Tim was.

And even if we take past Robins out of the equation? Why is he too young to have his own identity? He could still be ten years old and "he's too young to be anything but Robin" still wouldn't make sense. He's always been a fairly independent kid anyway. Maybe it's time to give him an identity that reflects that.

The only thing I'm against is the possibility that he's getting fired from being Robin. He doesn't deserve that. Not when all of this could have possibly been avoided, if Bruce hadn't abandoned his family to spend three years chasing a stray cat.

----------


## Ansa

> If DC's current timeline is anything to go by, he shouldn't be that much younger than Tim was when he became Red Robin. 
> 
> He's been Robin for, what, three years? Three and a half? Four? And Tim's gotta be like 17 or 18 at this point. He'd only be a year or two younger than Tim was.
> 
> And even if we take past Robins put of the equation? Why is he too young to have his own identity? He could still be ten years old and "he's too young to be anything but Robin" still wouldn't make sense. He's always been a fairly independent kid anyway. Maybe it's time to give him an identity that reflects that.
> 
> The only thing I'm against is the possibility that he's getting fired from being Robin. He doesn't deserve that. Not when all of this could have possibly been avoided, if Bruce hadn't abandoned his family to spend three years chasing a stray cat.


Yeah, because Red Robin was such a good identity.
And in the story where we saw Tim leave the Robin identity he was 16, I don't care if they retcon it to him being 13.

Sorry, but I think trying to give a kid an identity that is supposed to stay for life is stupid. Wait till he's sixteen, then we can talk.

----------


## Yennefer

> Yeah, because Red Robin was such a good identity.
> And in the story where we saw Tim leave the Robin identity he was 16, I don't care if they retcon it to him being 13.
> 
> Sorry, but I think trying to give a kid an identity that is supposed to stay for life is stupid. Wait till he's sixteen, then we can talk.


Damian had his first identity at age 10.. (redbird or something) ....
He is not a common 13-yo. Even if he is still immature -and this is normal- he has the intellectual level of a much older person. So, from this aspect, he is able to have an identity of his own.
And even if they give him a new identity:
a) it's not sure that he will keep it for life (I don't believe there is the time for that, but even if he appears with a new id in TT he may change it)
b) there is a possibility for him to stay without identity till the 16 years or more.

And even if they do give him the id, because they do not spend much energy and time on him... Then in my opinion, I don't think it is that bad, given that in the whole comic book history worse decisions have been made...
I mean it is something we can live with in comparison with other possible developments of his character....

Also the quality of Red Robin on the one hand and the quality of Damian's possible new ID are not based on their maturity and age, rather than on the way their writers write them.... (Which is not the best may I add)

----------


## Digifiend

He was Robin before he was Redbird. He didn't become Redbird until during Batman Inc after Flashpoint. There was a bounty on Robin so Damian took the name Redbird instead.

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Batman_Incorporated_Vol_2_3
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Redbird

----------


## Blue22

> Yeah, because Red Robin was such a good identity.


Oh it was terrible (but better than what he goes by now). But the quality of the name is completely irrelevant to the point I was making, as is your ignoring of the retcons that had to have been put in place in order for Tim and Damian to be the ages that they are now. 

Tim is just barely college age now. In fact I think he's currently the same age as Jon. Which means when Damian first became Robin, Tim had to have been about 14-15. Which is barely older than Damian, who's probably almost 14 at this point (in fact, if Jon was ten at the start of Rebirth and 11 when he went to space with Jor El, Damian *might* already be 14)

Was it a stupid retcon? Should Tim be way older than he is now? Yeah. But it is what it is.




> Sorry, but I think trying to give a kid an identity that is supposed to stay for life is stupid. Wait till he's sixteen, then we can talk.


Who said anything about him having this new identity for life? Tim and Steph have both gone through two different IDs since their days as Robin (granted, in Steph's case, she went back to her first one). Just because he's walking away from Robin and becoming something else at 13 doesn't mean that's what he's stuck as for the rest of his existence. And even if it is...so? What difference would him doing it at 13 make from him doing it at 16? It's not like he has anything else to gain from being Bruce's sometimes protege. He might as well cut himself loose now. From what I've seen of him in these past few years, he's kinda already outgrown Robin. If Robin's role is to be Batman's partner/student/sidekick, that is.




> He was Robin before he was Redbird. He didn't become Redbird until during Batman Inc after Flashpoint. There was a bounty on Robin so Damian took the name Redbird instead.
> 
> https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Batman_Incorporated_Vol_2_3
> https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Redbird


They never said Red Bird was his first identity. Just that he had his own at some point when he was ten. Though I hesitate to count Red Bird becasue I don't think anyone was ever fooled into thinking that would stick.

----------


## RLV_1996

In my opinion, the main point is - Damian just doesn’t deserve to lose his Robin identity. He tried his best in this role and died several times, trying to make things right. It was good for him and it made him closer to his dad and all these people that we’re good influence on him (for the most part).

But if rumors are true, I hope he leaves the identity himself. If Batman takes it from him... well, Bruce would in my eyes join the club of “most caring” dads of fiction, along with Vader, God-Emperor of Mankind and Gendo freaking Ikari.

----------


## Blue22

> In my opinion, the main point is - Damian just doesn’t deserve to lose his Robin identity. He tried his best in this role and died several times, trying to make things right. It was good for him and it made him closer to his dad and all these people that we’re good influence on him (for the most part).
> 
> But if rumors are true, I hope he leaves the identity himself. If Batman takes it from him... well, Bruce would in my eyes join the club of “most caring” dads of fiction, along with Vader, God-Emperor of Mankind and Gendo freaking Ikari.


Oh I'm in complete agreement. While I won't necessarily complain if this is the end of him as Robin. I still don't want it to be. After everything that title was to him, he doesn't deserve to lose it like this. 

And Bruce would have a hell of a lot of nerve to fire him right now. Which is why I'm REALLY hoping this little confrontation ends with him quitting and basically telling his dad to go fuck himself.

----------


## Yennefer

I am afraid that Bruce firing Damian will be the beginning of a very very very dark path for him. Maybe they prepare him to be something like Ra's in 5G....

----------


## Rac7d*

> I am afraid that Bruce firing Damian will be the beginning of a very very very dark path for him. Maybe they prepare him to be something like Ra's in 5G....


Well legion all but confirmed

----------


## Blue22

> Well legion all but confirmed


It wouldn't be the first time Damian's been hinted at or told he'll become a complete monster in the future. And much like X-Men's MANY post Apocalyptic futures, it's probably not gonna stop despite getting VERY old. Either way, I'm not buying it until it happens in the present. Especially if the most recent hint came from Bendis of all people.

----------


## Rac7d*

> It wouldn't be the first time Damian's been hinted at or told he'll become a complete monster in the future. And much like X-Men's MANY post Apocalyptic futures, it's probably not gonna stop despite getting VERY old. Either way, I'm not buying it until it happens in the present. Especially if the most recent hint came from Bendis of all people.


The preview for justice league dark seems to set up for it as well

----------


## Blue22

Fucking. Wonderful.

*Sigh* I just want my son to be happy. He deserves it >___<

----------


## Jackalope89

> Fucking. Wonderful.
> 
> *Sigh* I just want my son to be happy. He deserves it >___<


Well, there's always fanfics. Which half the time, seem to do better by the characters then the actual comics it seems.

----------


## Korath

You know, with the realization that Western civilization is killing the Earth and exterminating most lives on it, Ra's (and Ivy) could become lot more complexes and interesting. So, I'm all for Damian becoming Ra's al Ghul and pointing at the horrors that the coivilizations Batman, Superman and the whole lot protects are doing, without any attempt or desire to change.

----------


## Yennefer

> You know, with the realization that Western civilization is killing the Earth and exterminating most lives on it, Ra's (and Ivy) could become lot more complexes and interesting. So, I'm all for Damian becoming Ra's al Ghul and pointing at the horrors that the coivilizations Batman, Superman and the whole lot protects are doing, without any attempt or desire to change.


But the concept of Ra's al Ghul is eliminating most of humanity in favour of a balanced nature....
It would stigmatise Damian's character even worse than Dick's death, which is like killing the character again, given that he has earned some healthy popularity.
As far as I have understood, Damian being a villain in the future starts from him being paranoid and lost.
They set a very good base for it if Bruce fire him.
Basically, I don't know if they want to use them as a villain or an antagonist as ansa said (i think)...Or if they want to make him like Catwoman: supposedly an interesting character with a fluid moral compass.
I don't think that *they* have decided what to do with him. So even if we get hints, they are not about the main plan, but rather the development every write wants for Damian.

----------


## RLV_1996

> But the concept of Ra's al Ghul is eliminating most of humanity in favour of a balanced nature....
> It would stigmatise Damian's character even worse than Dick's death, which is like killing the character again, given that he has earned some healthy popularity.
> As far as I have understood, Damian being a villain in the future starts from him being paranoid and lost.
> They set a very good base for it if Bruce fire him.
> Basically, I don't know if they want to use them as a villain or an antagonist as ansa said (i think)...Or if they want to make him like Catwoman: supposedly an interesting character with a fluid moral compass.
> I don't think that *they* have decided what to do with him. So even if we get hints, they are not about the main plan, but rather the development every write wants for Damian.


Perhaps with recent changes in DC Management, direction for the character would change as well.
From what Ive heard, previous DC Management already tried to get rid of the character several times, plus sidelining him from batfamily, as well as reducing presence of batfamily at all. Direction of Batman as total depressed loner came back after Jeff Jones left and might change again now. 
For example, isolating his son from Batman and make him morally dubious would suit loner direction, but would certainly be against supersons  direction under Jones.

----------


## Digifiend

> They never said Red Bird was his first identity. Just that he had his own at some point when he was ten.


Yes they did. 


> Damian had his first identity at age 10.. (redbird or something)


 They weren't certain Redbird was the right name, but they did say it was his first identity, which it wasn't.

----------


## Yennefer

> Perhaps with recent changes in DC Management, direction for the character would change as well.
> From what I’ve heard, previous DC Management already tried to get rid of the character several times, plus sidelining him from batfamily, as well as reducing presence of batfamily at all. Direction of Batman as total depressed loner came back after Jeff Jones left and might change again now. 
> For example, isolating his son from Batman and make him morally dubious would suit “loner direction”, but would certainly be against “supersons ” direction under Jones.


I guess the new face is not "known", as far as his character preferences are concerned....
I didn't know that about DC and Damian.... 
So it is possible that whatever happens till the titles wrap up will not be necessarily canon for the new generation of comics (5G or not)...




> Yes they did.  They weren't certain Redbird was the right name, but they did say it was his first identity, which it wasn't.


I don't know if there is a misunderstanding here. But, by telling "his first identity" I meant his first identity  *that he created.*
I mean... Do you mean that Robin was his first, by saying RedBird isn't? 
Anyways. The point is that at the age of 10 he had an identity *of his own.*

----------


## Katana500

> The preview for justice league dark seems to set up for it as well


Im feeling pretty optimstic about Damian's appearence in Justice League Dark to be honest. I'm pretty surpised Damian is going to be one of the major characters in the movie - hes one of the few survivors! did not see it coming.

He doesn't come across as evil to me in the preview, I have a feeling his 'evilness' will consist of leading whatever remnant of the league of assasins exists and that it won't last particularly long, I suspect either Superman or Raven will very quickly convince Damian to join in on whatever plan they have drawn up. If he was evil I doubt they would be able to do the Raven/Damian Relationship subplot which I suspect most of his time in the movie will be focused on.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Im feeling pretty optimstic about Damian's appearence in Justice League Dark to be honest. I'm pretty surpised Damian is going to be one of the major characters in the movie - hes one of the few survivors! did not see it coming.
> 
> He doesn't come across as evil to me in the preview, I have a feeling his 'evilness' will consist of leading whatever remnant of the league of assasins exists and that it won't last particularly long, I suspect either Superman or Raven will very quickly convince Damian to join in on whatever plan they have drawn up. If he was evil I doubt they would be able to do the Raven/Damian Relationship subplot which I suspect most of his time in the movie will be focused on.


From what I've seen it seems that his concerns for Raven is what makes him join in on the plan. She gets hurt or something we see her weak and him appealing to them.

----------


## Rac7d*

Some one said a few pages back that Damian is not well liked yet here he is leading the post charge by far. I believe him to be the most discussed characters in the batfamily on this site this year so far. He might be most discussed DC character of 2020 here

----------


## Fergus

Reading Injustice v the Masters of the Universe I just noticed that Harley appears to pat Damian on the butt here. 

Exactly how old is she?

This is the 3rd Bat that DC has playfully made Harley do suggestive things to

She's kissed Bruce and Dick she straight up attempted to rape.

----------


## Fergus

> Some one said a few pages back that Damian is not well liked yet here he is leading the post charge by far. I believe him to be the most discussed characters in the batfamily on this site this year so far. He might be most discussed DC character of 2020 here


Mmh. I don't think these forums are remotely a measure of popularity have you seen the harley thread?

Looking at things like sales, merch that Dc is willing to invest in I'd say that Damian is quite popular. and to Dick who by a very wide margin is the most Popular of the family out side Bruce.

Damian has a lot of very vocal hate but that doesn't mean he is unpopular just like polls, or length of Appreciation pages doesn't mean popular.

I do think that Dick and Damian are currently being discussed because there is stuff happening worthy of discussion. Their story lines have been controversial.

Ric and Damian behaving Badly etc.

I mean labelling a character whose grand mother is jewish Hitler is controversial

----------


## AmiMizuno

Now I'm curious. If it were to happen. Should Raven and Damian and Raven be a couple? Like if there were no age gaps? Or keep Raven and Beast Boy. Now honestly I would love the whole how do you think a girl you like her con with Dick

----------


## Fergus

> Now I'm curious. If it were to happen. Should Raven and Damian and Raven be a couple? Like if there were no age gaps? Or keep Raven and Beast Boy. Now honestly I would love the whole how do you think a girl you like her con with Dick


Not sure what you mean by the last line but I have no problem with Raven and Damian in the animated Universe. 
In the comics it doesn't work for several reasons

1) Damian is too young to be courting
2) Raven is too old and a mate of his big brother Dick

I don't think Raven and Garfield have ever had a relationship have they? I might be mistaken but I just can't recall the two ever dating so that part doesn't concern me. 

I like their flirting in TT GO and TT the animated series but Terra was always garfield's love imo

----------


## AmiMizuno

They have dated. I meant in general if he was interested in dating someone.  "One Year Later" Beast Boy broke up with Raven

----------


## sifighter

I mean I’ve been reading long enough that I can divorce multiple iterations of characters from each other(in this case DCAMU Damian, Comics Damian, and Injustice Damian...and I guess Harley Quinn Damian?) that yeah I’m fine in the animated movies with Damian and Raven as long as it’s written well, but she doesn’t have to nor should she probably end up with Damian in the comics because they’re not the same people as they are in the movies. They aren’t gonna have the same history or moments as they do in the animated so it would feel forced for the sake of synergy in the comics.

But if to say that 5G ages up Damian to be similar age to Raven now....I don’t know, I wouldn’t try to rally for it but it were to happen and again if it was written decently then I guess that would be fine.

----------


## Fergus

> I mean Ive been reading long enough that I can divorce multiple iterations of characters from each other(in this case DCAMU Damian, Comics Damian, and Injustice Damian...and I guess Harley Quinn Damian?) that yeah Im fine in the animated movies with Damian and Raven as long as its written well, but she doesnt have to nor should she probably end up with Damian in the comics because theyre not the same people as they are in the movies. They arent gonna have the same history or moments as they do in the animated so it would feel forced for the sake of synergy in the comics.
> 
> But if to say that 5G ages up Damian to be similar age to Raven now....I dont know, I wouldnt try to rally for it but it were to happen and again if it was written decently then I guess that would be fine.


I feel mostly the same as you do though I'm not sure I can envision Damian and Raven dating even if 5G does result in an older Damian.


Comic Damian and Raven just doesn't gel.
Animated Universe they work similar to how in the Injustice universe Supergirl and Damian is a pairing I can see but not their main universe counterparts is a no-no

----------


## Ansa

> Oh it was terrible (but better than what he goes by now). But the quality of the name is completely irrelevant to the point I was making, as is your ignoring of the retcons that had to have been put in place in order for Tim and Damian to be the ages that they are now. 
> 
> Tim is just barely college age now. In fact I think he's currently the same age as Jon. Which means when Damian first became Robin, Tim had to have been about 14-15. Which is barely older than Damian, who's probably almost 14 at this point (in fact, if Jon was ten at the start of Rebirth and 11 when he went to space with Jor El, Damian *might* already be 14)
> 
> Was it a stupid retcon? Should Tim be way older than he is now? Yeah. But it is what it is.
> 
> 
> 
> Who said anything about him having this new identity for life? Tim and Steph have both gone through two different IDs since their days as Robin (granted, in Steph's case, she went back to her first one). Just because he's walking away from Robin and becoming something else at 13 doesn't mean that's what he's stuck as for the rest of his existence. And even if it is...so? What difference would him doing it at 13 make from him doing it at 16? It's not like he has anything else to gain from being Bruce's sometimes protege. He might as well cut himself loose now. From what I've seen of him in these past few years, he's kinda already outgrown Robin. If Robin's role is to be Batman's partner/student/sidekick, that is.
> ...


Okay, I'm going to get more explicit, because you don't seem to understand what my problem is, despite me already writing it like three times.

I don't care at what age Tim turned into Red Robin or Robin or how "independent" Damian is. I think he should get his own identity as a sign that he's on the brink of adulthood, not earlier. Not as a 13 year old. This is a personal preference.
It feels like you're trying to convince a person who simply doesn't like apples to eat an apple pie.

I didn't like Red Bird either, the name and costume where shit. So glad it vanished immediatly, I hate looking at the panels.

----------


## Fergus

Dc has two options with Damian. Kill him off or Robin.
Damian is far too young to be an independent hero and Bruce letting him is not acceptable. Dick, Tim and Jason can get independent Ids they are older and are not anchored to bruce the way Damian is. 

A 13 year old is too young to just do their own thing. Batman's character has morphed into something far from what he should be but i doubt DC is ready to have a 13 year old out doing his own living god knows where.

----------


## Aahz

> A 13 year old is too young to just do their own thing.


On top of it 13 old Damian is hardly different from  10 year old Damian.

Imo Damian has also not really reached his peak as Robin, he never had an long running solo or a really iconic team line up.

----------


## Yennefer

> Dc has two options with Damian. Kill him off or Robin.


I think I disagree... Not because I don't find it correct or possible... But I think saying something like that is a bit absolut....
I don't think DC will kill him off again... If King, who practically "estranged" Bruce from the kids, and Didio, who -is said- did not want Damian, are out of The Batman then it is possible, even at the very last moment, that they take a different turn with Damian's relationship with Bruce.  :Smile:

----------


## Rac7d*

> They have dated. I meant in general if he was interested in dating someone.  "One Year Later" Beast Boy broke up with Raven


In the animation beastboy is older then raven

----------


## Rac7d*

> Dc has two options with Damian. Kill him off or Robin.
> Damian is far too young to be an independent hero and Bruce letting him is not acceptable. Dick, Tim and Jason can get independent Ids they are older and are not anchored to bruce the way Damian is. 
> 
> A 13 year old is too young to just do their own thing. Batman's character has morphed into something far from what he should be but i doubt DC is ready to have a 13 year old out doing his own living god knows where.


Damian been doing his own thing living out of the house for readers for the last 3 years. Where have you been? Bruce is a a bad parent who does not care and should not have another baby.  He has already died so we rather that not happy again. Time drake is 16 years old living off Bruce’s money like a spoiled brat despite the Robin with actual family.

----------


## Yennefer

I just thought something...
Please, do tell if I remember wrong things...
Damian's artificial womb had to be provided with energy, which was given by a stone that Talia found randomly and supposedly, it had to do something with Darkseid?
If that's correct, do you think it will affect Damian's role in the upcoming movie?

----------


## Fergus

> I just thought something...
> Please, do tell if I remember wrong things...
> Damian's artificial womb had to be provided with energy, which was given by a stone that Talia found randomly and supposedly, it had to do something with Darkseid?
> If that's correct, do you think it will affect Damian's role in the upcoming movie?


The Chaos Shard. 

I would like to have someone do something more with that.

damian ran out of battery technically a shot from Darkseid's Omega Beam should fire it up if I understand it correctly.

----------


## Fergus

> Damian been doing his own thing living out of the house for readers for the last 3 years. Where have you been? Bruce is a a bad parent who does not care and should not have another baby.  He has already died so we rather that not happy again. Time drake is 16 years old living off Bruces money like a spoiled brat despite the Robin with actual family.


Damian has died twice if her can't be Robin then there is no place for him. They can ship him back to his mum I guess but there is no Room for a character who isn't doing something

Damian sadly because of his age is at a disadvantage. He can't do his own thing and no being in TT isn't doing his own thing. That is doing the Robin thing. Without Robin he has no business in the TT.

He can't be a stay at home and bond with Bruce because this is Comics and this is DC.

he has to be doing something to justify why DC is going to give him panel space. RSob worked because he was doing his redemption year. I suppose Dc could give him another solo his title sold better than RHatO but DC keeps pushing that out because Lobdell.

Batman beyond is also still going. DC just doesn't seem to be willing to invest in Damian. They are actively working against him.

Cancelling Supersons
Shipping his out of the Bat Office
Putting him on a no use list at the start of Rebirth
Turning him to fodder in his own book 

DC hasn't been that invested in Damian but getting back top the subject. Damian isn't going to take a new Identity not while he is 13. That's not going to happen

Tim's folk are in WP or dead he is Bruce's Ward and a minor so he has to live at the manor but that has nothing to do with his title since he is in YJ.

Tim, Damian, Jason, Dick they can all live at home but that doesn't mean DC is going to put out a title about a bunch of civilians just chilling at the manor. They need a reason to be heroes and without Robin Damian doesn't have one since he is 13.

----------


## Fergus

> I think I disagree... Not because I don't find it correct or possible... But I think saying something like that is a bit absolut....
> I don't think DC will kill him off again... If King, who practically "estranged" Bruce from the kids, and Didio, who -is said- did not want Damian, are out of The Batman then it is possible, even at the very last moment, that they take a different turn with Damian's relationship with Bruce.


I don't know if Didio had anything against Damian. He once called Tim the blandest of the Robins.
We know he wants to kill Dick because he thought he made Bruce old.
The new 52 which erased Tim's time as Robin happened on his watch
I don't know where he stood on Damian staying dead and Duke taking over which was Synder's plan that Dc execs went along with till WB put a stop to it.

The only Robin that he personally gave a push seems to be Jason who he green lit his book and kept it running depute it being such a low seller.

I'm not sure Didio dislikes any robins. The Robins do age Batman their flagship character so I understand why he might want to sacrifice them for the sake of protecting that Character.

King didn't do anything to Damian. Synder was the one who pushed Damian out of the Bat Office. Damian is under the Superman editorial Office and he has been since Synder took over Batman.
Synder is the one who has given us two replacement Robins and he is still very much a driving force in Dc and batman.

death Metal is going to reshape the Universe. Synder's student Tynion is currently writing batman. 

I don't know what DV's plans are for him in the future. damian is a character that my kids and their friends enjoy. Dc took Supersons away from them and replaced it with nothing which is a real shame. Dc seems to enjoy screwing themselves intentionally.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Damian has died twice if her can't be Robin then there is no place for him. They can ship him back to his mum I guess but there is no Room for a character who isn't doing something
> 
> Damian sadly because of his age is at a disadvantage. He can't do his own thing and no being in TT isn't doing his own thing. That is doing the Robin thing. Without Robin he has no business in the TT.
> 
> He can't be a stay at home and bond with Bruce because this is Comics and this is DC.
> 
> he has to be doing something to justify why DC is going to give him panel space. RSob worked because he was doing his redemption year. I suppose Dc could give him another solo his title sold better than RHatO but DC keeps pushing that out because Lobdell.
> 
> Batman beyond is also still going. DC just doesn't seem to be willing to invest in Damian. They are actively working against him.
> ...


Can't forget; Bendis writing Damian. 

Rivals the Battle for the Cowl version of out of characterness for Damian.

----------


## Blue22

> Okay, I'm going to get more explicit, because you don't seem to understand what my problem is, despite me already writing it like three times.
> 
> I don't care at what age Tim turned into Red Robin or Robin or how "independent" Damian is. I think he should get his own identity as a sign that he's on the brink of adulthood, not earlier. Not as a 13 year old. This is a personal preference.
> It feels like you're trying to convince a person who simply doesn't like apples to eat an apple pie.


Oh I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm just expressing why I disagree with that assertion because....well frankly I find it odd. 




> Dc has two options with Damian. Kill him off or Robin.
> Damian is far too young to be an independent hero and Bruce letting him is not acceptable. Dick, Tim and Jason can get independent Ids they are older and are not anchored to bruce the way Damian is. 
> 
> A 13 year old is too young to just do their own thing. Batman's character has morphed into something far from what he should be but i doubt DC is ready to have a 13 year old out doing his own living god knows where.


At the end of the day, Damian changing his costume and code name now wouldn't make anything terribly different for him. He's already as far removed from Batman as any acting Robin has ever been since, maybe, the end of Dick's tenure. Might as well finalize it at this point since it doesn't look like his relationship with Bruce will be getting better anytime soon. What would change for him if he stopped being Robin, aside from his name? 13 may be too young for a normal child to be on their own. In almost every other case I would agree with that. But...Damian's not a normal child. I enjoy his moments where he gets to be one but, unfortunately, that's just not what he is. He's been taking care of himself since Rebirth started. Maybe even a little before that.

There's no need to do something as extreme as killing him off just because his time as Robin is up. That'd be such a lazy solution and a waste of what could be a solid character arc and new status quo for him. He should not be so tied to the Robin identity that his only option is to die when he loses it. 




> Damian has died twice if her can't be Robin then there is no place for him. They can ship him back to his mum I guess but there is no Room for a character who isn't doing something


Then give him something to do. He's far past the point where not being Robin anymore means his only other option is go back to his mother's way of life. That just makes it seem like he has no agency of his own. Like he's completely incapable of being a hero without the Robin title. Or that his only option is to bounce back and forth between two neglectful and/or abusive parents. He doesn't need either of them right now and I sincerely hope whoever's writing him going forward has enough of a creative bone in their body to know what they wanna do with him. Because there are a couple of things they could do before going "Whelp, he's not Robin anymore. Guess he should just DIE!"




> He can't do his own thing and no being in TT isn't doing his own thing. That is doing the Robin thing. *Without Robin he has no business in the TT*.


But Dick and Tim both continued being Titans even after they stopped being Robin (hell Dick made his first debut as Nightwing in a Titans book). Why should Damian be any different? I may not really care for his Titans but not being Robin anymore shouldn't have anything to do with him not being with them. Like...that's just straight up incorrect.

----------------------------

Bear in mind, I don't want Damian to lose Robin yet. I want him and Bruce to be able to work this out so they can go back to being father and son. I want Bruce to stop ignoring his family for a woman who's practically turned stringing him along into an occupation.

But if this is the end for that...so be it. He had a good 14 year run (or 4 years, in universe. Like I said before, he might not even still be 13 right now). But it doesn't have to be the end for Damian as a character. That's just a waste. He doesn't have to be chained to an identity that was meant for Batman's partners, when he hasn't really been Batman's partner for a few years now.

----------


## Fergus

> Oh I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm just expressing why I disagree with that assertion because....well frankly I find it odd. 
> 
> 
> 
> At the end of the day, Damian changing his costume and code name now wouldn't make anything terribly different for him. He's already as far removed from Batman as any acting Robin has ever been since, maybe, the end of Dick's tenure. Might as well finalize it at this point since it doesn't look like his relationship with Bruce will be getting better anytime soon. What would change for him if he stopped being Robin, aside from his name? 13 may be too young for a normal child to be on their own. In almost every other case I would agree with that. But...Damian's not a normal child. I enjoy his moments where he gets to be one but, unfortunately, that's just not what he is. He's been taking care of himself since Rebirth started. Maybe even a little before that.
> 
> There's no need to do something as extreme as killing him off just because his time as Robin is up. That'd be such a lazy solution and a waste of what could be a solid character arc and new status quo for him. He should not be so tied to the Robin identity that his only option is to die when he loses it. 
> 
> 
> ...


The bulk of Damian stories we've had since Rebirth have had Batman. 

Sadly it seems that most Damian fans on here don't even follow the bulk of the stories which he appears in which is the only reason I can see for anyone complaining about the Lack of B&R. Even though the situation of RR, Duke, Kate, Cass, Selina, Steph, Luke, Az have meant that for a while DC had to dedicate the wide reaching bat books towards promoting struggling Bat characters.

This same lack of support for stories and titles where damian cameo's also leads to the claim that few writers can write Damian when majority write him very well.

He has been taking care of himself since Rebirth? That is a lie and you know it. He only moved out off the Manor shortly after the Knightmares arc.

How many titles was he estranged from Bruce? Fewer than they were on good or professional terms.

Dick and Tim weren't fired. If Damian is fired from hero work then that means that he does not have Bruce's approval to work as a hero.

I don't know what books you people are reading but I have my collection here from when Dick was Robin and Jason was the last Robin that was a constant in the Bat books. Tim showed up for most but not all big events.

The Bat family is too bloated if a character doesn't have a purpose then they shouldn't take up panel space that could go to others.

All this talk about Damian taking on a new id. So he takes a new id because he has been fired and then what? He certainly won't be living at the manor. There's already a Red Hood and I doubt he'd be allowed to work in Gotham.

So again i ask what can DC do with a 13 yr old who has been deemed not suited from hero work / who has walked away from heroics because he's dad took issue with his methods or because he himself felt he had failed?

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## Aahz

> King didn't do anything to Damian. Synder was the one who pushed Damian out of the Bat Office. Damian is under the Superman editorial Office and he has been since Synder took over Batman.
> Synder is the one who has given us two replacement Robins and he is still very much a driving force in Dc and batman.


I'm pretty sure he was in the Batoffice untill Rebirth, and the shift came with Super Sons.

----------


## Aahz

> he has to be doing something to justify why DC is going to give him panel space. RSob worked because he was doing his redemption year. I suppose Dc could give him another solo his title sold better than RHatO but DC keeps pushing that out because Lobdell.


RSob was basically replaced by Super Sons, and the second incarnation of that book had iirc also not pretty low sales numbers in the end.

Comparison with RHatO is also a little tricky since Damian never really had a long lasting ongoing.

----------


## RLV_1996

> The bulk of Damian stories we've had since Rebirth have had Batman. 
> 
> Sadly it seems that most Damian fans on here don't even follow the bulk of the stories which he appears in which is the only reason I can see for anyone complaining about the Lack of B&R. Even though the situation of RR, Duke, Kate, Cass, Selina, Steph, Luke, Az have meant that for a while DC had to dedicate the wide reaching bat books towards promoting struggling Bat characters.
> 
> This same lack of support for stories and titles where damian cameo's also leads to the claim that few writers can write Damian when majority write him very well.
> 
> He has been taking care of himself since Rebirth? That is a lie and you know it. He only moved out off the Manor shortly after the Knightmares arc.
> 
> How many titles was he estranged from Bruce? Fewer than they were on good or professional terms.
> ...


You might be right, Damian had his screen time in titles. And technically you could argue that his presence in batbooks is on the level as the rest of batfamily. So, as you said, their *professional*  relationship as Batman and Robin is there.

Put personally, I take the issue not that it’s lacking B&R action, but *interaction* between characters. He is Bruce’s 13 years old son with issues, and most people here argue for negligence from Bruce as a parent, not as hero mentor. All genuine interactions between them that I could remember came from supersons after rebirth. After that, it’s kinda empty. Maybe you could scratch something after supersons were canceled, from other books that I’m unaware of, but it very little in comparison to Clark and Jon.

I’m not saying that sole focus of batbooks now should be on Bruce and Damian. But his existence should have larger impact on Bruce’s life and should be at least referenced, but it seems people in charge of batbooks like to pretend that Bruce is still in his “eligible bachelor” status quo. That’s where argument of negligence comes from. And that’s the problem with comics now - it’s going in circles, where even major changes are reverted back with time.

But again, that’s my perception of the situation.

----------


## Blue22

> He has been taking care of himself since Rebirth? That is a lie and you know it. He only moved out off the Manor shortly after the Knightmares arc.


Where's the lie? Aside from some cameos and events here and there like Event Leviathan or anything that brings in the Batfamily, Damian's most prominent appearances seem to have him off on his own. I'm not talking about his living situation. You can live with your parent and still be the one taking care of yourself. You can be in the same house as your child and not pay them any mind. That's pretty much what's been going on with those two. They both go in and out of the manor, doing their own things, only working together as Batman and Robin maybe...like three or four times in these past few years? Aside from Event Leviathan, that one arc in Tec, and Super Sons what other times have we really seen them acting as father and son or Batman and Robin? Definitely not during the times where they'd both need each other the most. Shit, Damian wasn't even there when the family staged an intervention for Bruce in King's run. Likewise, RIP pretty much implies that Bruce hasn't really done shit to convince Damian that what happened to Alfred wasn't his fault. And I assume quite a bit of time has passed at that point. If they are still the dynamic duo, they're not doing a very good job of showing it in times where it really matters.





> Dick and Tim weren't fired. If Damian is fired from hero work then that means that he does not have Bruce's approval to work as a hero.


Fuck Bruce's approval. This entire Titans run wouldn't be happening right now if he cared about what Bruce approved of. 




> I don't know what books you people are reading but I have my collection here from when Dick was Robin and Jason was the last Robin that was a constant in the Bat books. Tim showed up for most but not all big events.


I'll concede on that one cuz my memory of events that far back are a hazy and, unlike you, I don't have a collection to back it up lol

I will say though, that what's going on with those two feels way different than what's going on with Tim during his tenure as Robin. I at least had the sense that, even if Tim didn't appear regularly in Bat titles, he and Bruce were still working regularly together during all the times we, as the readers, didn't see them. I don't get that feeling with Bruce and Damian anymore. Not with the versions of both characters that we've been presented with in their main titles.




> So again i ask what can DC do with a 13 yr old who has been deemed not suited from hero work / who has walked away from heroics because he's dad took issue with his methods or because he himself felt he had failed?


His only other option certainly isn't to die. All the Robins are different enough from each other to carry their own individual stories. So why is that when Damian loses Robin, suddenly he's got nothing? Whether they'd sell or not is another argument but there are plenty of routes to go with Damian now that don't end with "death" or "back to mom". 

- Keep him with his Titans (or even a new team) under his new ID and have that just be his thing for a while. 

- Give him a new purpose, a new mission. Redemption's been a big part of his character for a while. Capitalize on that. Have him continue his journey to make up for old mistakes as well as the newer ones that he's made. Hell, I've always liked the idea of him and Maya (or even just him, by himself) starting their own heroic version of the LoA when they're older. Have this route be the seed that plants that for the future (5G, I guess). 

- Have him switch over to being Dick's partner when/if all the Ric nonsense is over. Maybe he thinks he's lost his way and needs a refresher on being a hero. And what better way to do that than with the person who he began his hero career with?

And those are just things off the top of my head. 




> You might be right, Damian had his screen time in titles. And technically you could argue that his presence in batbooks is on the level as the rest of batfamily. So, as you said, their *professional*  relationship as Batman and Robin is there.
> 
> Put personally, I take the issue not that it’s lacking B&R action, but *interaction* between characters. He is Bruce’s 13 years old son with issues, and most people here argue for negligence from Bruce as a parent, not as hero mentor. All genuine interactions between them that I could remember came from supersons after rebirth. After that, it’s kinda empty. Maybe you could scratch something after supersons were canceled, from other books that I’m unaware of, but it very little in comparison to Clark and Jon.
> 
> I’m not saying that sole focus of batbooks now should be on Bruce and Damian. But his existence should have larger impact on Bruce’s life and should be at least referenced, but it seems people in charge of batbooks like to pretend that Bruce is still in his “eligible bachelor” status quo. That’s where argument of negligence comes from. And that’s the problem with comics now - it’s going in circles, where even major changes are reverted back with time.


^^Pretty much all of this^^

Though I'd argue that Bruce is still pretty negligent as a hero/mentor too. Depending on how this timeline of events played out, I call so much BS on him *just* finding out what Damian's been up to if he was paying even the slightest bit of attention to him.

----------


## Darkspellmaster

I would think one way to fix his status is by having him be a focus of the next Young Justice TV show. Or do a super son's tv show. Thay would help put both boys onto a better  situation.

Not to mention Dick and Tim both have TV shows with them. And Jason's dubious distinction of being the dead one so that helps. Damian needs that push.

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## sifighter

> I would think one way to fix his status is by having him be a focus of the next Young Justice TV show. Or do a super son's tv show. Thay would help put both boys onto a better  situation.
> 
> Not to mention Dick and Tim both have TV shows with them. And Jason's dubious distinction of being the dead one so that helps. Damian needs that push.


I mean he did recently get teased in Young Justice but as a baby and since that show has played with more real time elements, or characters actually aging and progressing, it might take a while for Damian to actually be anything like the one we know in the comics(unless more hyper aging is involved).

I could see that with the CW Superman family show coming and the fact that Batman did exist at some point be a possibility for a live action Damian and Jon, but that would again be different especially since its in the CW universe.

Honestly I like the focus hes got going for him in the animated movie universe, I just think they actually need to promote and market those movies more.

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## Blue22

> I mean he did recently get teased in Young Justice but as a baby and since that show has played with more real time elements, or characters actually aging and progressing, it might take a while for Damian to actually be anything like the one we know in the comics(unless more hyper aging is involved).


Apparently there's going to be another time skip between seasons 3 and 4 (not sure how I feel about that, to be honest). Depending on how long that is, we very well could see all those kids, that were teased in the third season, as heroes. I just hope Phil Bourassa gets a bit more creative with the character designs so that Damian doesn't look exactly how he does in the movies. It was jarring enough seeing Talia's "meh" movie design (right down to the exact same outfit) appear in YJ when the tie-in comics already gave her a really good design. Or all the YJ characters who show up as background extras in the animated movies (or Harper Row's design literally being a recolor of Tara). 

Tara and Artemis' relationship in season 3 is a lot more hilarious when you realize Artemis was part of the mob that tortured her in the Judas Contract movie XD

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## RLV_1996

Just silly thoughts to lighten up the atmosphere here. 
With us speculating, Batman 666, (and DC hinting) that Damian might go dark path, I think I found Damian's soulmate.  :Stick Out Tongue: 

Welcome Gabriel Belmont from Castlevania: Lords of Shadow (https://www.*********.com/gabriel-belmont/3005-12350/)


2153224-tumblr_l9sgmte7b11qasabwo1_500.jpg

fcc797cdb5edfc50d733f6a3d08a7b47.jpg

763f62bfd49e9c1df3e3cae8e0bdc245.jpg

*Description from in-game:* "As an infant he was found abandoned at the door of one of the brotherhood of light convents. It is not known who his original parents were. Some suspects that he was the unwanted bastard of a local wealthy landowner, most likely from the Cronqvist family, though this has never been proved. The order named the boy after the archangel Gabriel and raised him as one its own. A precocious child, he quickly proved to be extremely talented, developing an unprecedented mastery over the fighting arts. Gabriel took the surname of Belmont from his love of the mountains and the high places of the world.
Prone to dark moods and occasional ambivalence, Gabriel was deeply affected by the death of his childhood sweetheart, Marie. He has embarked on this quest at the request of the elders of the brotherhood, and has a burning desire for revenge."


* Short story short*: As most skillful warrior of this Brotherhood of Light, he travels the world to defeat three Lords of Shadow - of Werefolves, Vampires and Necromancers, and recollect pieces of powerful artefact, Mask of God . He is successful in this, and reunites the mask, but sacrifices parts of his humanity in this brutal quest. Gabriel believes that it would allow to resurrect his wife. 
However, he finds out that he was manipulated all this time by the last Lord and actually killed his wife himself, under Lord's magic influence.

----------


## Digifiend

> I mean he did recently get teased in Young Justice but as a baby and since that show has played with more real time elements, or characters actually aging and progressing, it might take a while for Damian to actually be anything like the one we know in the comics(unless more hyper aging is involved).
> 
> I could see that with the CW Superman family show coming and the fact that Batman did exist at some point be a possibility for a live action Damian and Jon, but that would again be different especially since its in the CW universe.


YJ does timeskip every season though. Season 1 had 13 year old Dick Robin. Season 2 five years later had Nightwing, Tim Robin and Barbara Batgirl. Season 3 added more characters. I don't know how far ahead season 4 is set, but surely by season 5 we'd see the Super Sons join the Team. Come to think of it, I wonder if YJ inspired the Generation Five thing the comics have planned? Even in season 3 some characters are quite a bit older than they are in the comics.

Arrowverse Jon is already confirmed to be happening, we know two teens have been cast to play Jon and his brother in Superman and Lois. For some reason the other Kent boy is called Jordan, not Chris or Conner.

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## RLV_1996

Gabriel uses mask to defeat re-emerged Satan, but found that mask can't actually bring people back. Lost after all this, he sacrifices his humanity to become vampire, in order to enter alt. dimension unsuited for normal humans, kill local demon and prevent futher invasions to Earth. After that, abandoned to himself by order he served, consumed by dark emotions, he became the creature of darkness  - *Dracula*

T1_12.jpg

6921616-4687923459-dcqta.jpg

castlevania-lords-of-shadow-2-7626.jpg

But *plot twist*, people in charge of this Brotherhood actually forsaw all of this shit years before all it happened (kinda like one Legion of Superjerks). They chose to tell only his wife about all what they saw, thinking that Gabriel's dark fate is pre-determined. And while Gabriel was gone on some knight quest, his wife gave birth to a boy, which elders hid from Gabriel. After Dracula emerged, they send this boy to fight him, and Dracula of course killed him, not aware who this boy is. You can see more on this story if you are interested, gameplay is on Youtube and it's impossible to tell it all in this post.  :Smile: 

Just kinda having fun with potential analogies here  :Wink:

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## sifighter

> YJ does timeskip every season though. Season 1 had 13 year old Dick Robin. Season 2 five years later had Nightwing, Tim Robin and Barbara Batgirl. Season 3 added more characters. I don't know how far ahead season 4 is set, but surely by season 5 we'd see the Super Sons join the Team. Come to think of it, I wonder if YJ inspired the Generation Five thing the comics have planned? Even in season 3 some characters are quite a bit older than they are in the comics.
> 
> Arrowverse Jon is already confirmed to be happening, we know two teens have been cast to play Jon and his brother in Superman and Lois. For some reason the other Kent boy is called Jordan, not Chris or Conner.


I could see it inspiring Kaldur Aquaman in the comics since that was pretty popular and a big deal when the show was returning. The animation side of things has been very good at influencing the comics whether intentional or not. Snyder's team was just Justice League Unlimited, everyone wants the teen titans cartoon line-up of teen titans, and we have Batman Beyond comic that they have somewhat tried to keep in continuity. But I think that while they could inspire the comics that it won't necessarily carry over well because the difference in the universes in terms of continuity but also that TV and animated movie progress differently then comics because in a sense they have to progress differently for their audience. 

However like I said I could see the popularity of YJ and maybe even the animated movies spilling over into the comics to move things with Generation five. I also wouldn't be surprised if in the future we got a DCuniverse or HBOmax animated series about a teenage or preteen Jon Kent being superboy (if Krypto can get his own cartoon so can Jon).

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## Aahz

> YJ does timeskip every season though. Season 1 had 13 year old Dick Robin. Season 2 five years later had Nightwing, Tim Robin and Barbara Batgirl. Season 3 added more characters. I don't know how far ahead season 4 is set, but surely by season 5 we'd see the Super Sons join the Team. Come to think of it, I wonder if YJ inspired the Generation Five thing the comics have planned? Even in season 3 some characters are quite a bit older than they are in the comics


I doubt that they will such a big time skip as they did between season 1 and 2 again. Between 2 and 3 they skipped afaik only 2 years.

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## Jackalope89

> I doubt that they will such a big time skip as they did between season 1 and 2 again. Between 2 and 3 they skipped afaik only 2 years.


Yeah, I'm not seeing a 10 year (give or take) timeskip for season 4. A couple years though, yes. What's more, in the same episode Damian was teased, it was confirmed that Jason Todd was there as well (though how that will affect things, I have no idea, considering the trouble he gave Bruce in Under the Red Hood, he could cause trouble for the main cast).

----------


## Yennefer

https://mobile.twitter.com/WBHomeEnt...76646548197377

Justice League Dark: Apokolips War Trailer is out today.

----------


## Aahz

> Yeah, I'm not seeing a 10 year (give or take) timeskip for season 4. A couple years though, yes. What's more, in the same episode Damian was teased, it was confirmed that Jason Todd was there as well (though how that will affect things, I have no idea, considering the trouble he gave Bruce in Under the Red Hood, he could cause trouble for the main cast).


The Age Gap between Damian and the Other Batcharcters is also much bigger in YJ.

Bruce is roughly 38 years older, Dick is roughly 20 years older and Tim is roughly 15 years older.

So by the time Damian would be old enough to be Robin, everybody else would have aged significantly past their comic ages, especially all the characers of Tim's generation.

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## Jackalope89

> The Age Gap between Damian and the Other Batcharcters is also much bigger in YJ.
> 
> Bruce is roughly 38 years older, Dick is roughly 20 years older and Tim is roughly 15 years older.
> 
> So by the time Damian would be old enough to be Robin, everybody else would have aged significantly past their comic ages, especially all the characers of Tim's generation.


True. But as shown in that same episode, there's also a whole generation of super babies right in there as well.

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## sifighter

Trailer for Apokolips War is out, enjoy. Oh and definitely surprised to see an R-rating on this.

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## Yennefer

> Trailer for Apokolips War is out, enjoy. Oh and definitely surprised to see an R-rating on this.



"Sexual References"... I thought something weird between aged Damian and Raven would happen... But then someone correctly reminded me there is Constantine in this movie....
Anyways... They didn't release the première date. Hope they will give us another teaser trailer with it. Do you think it will be only one movie?

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## dietrich

Stuart Allen the voice of Damian sent out a tweet saying Damian fans, we are in for a huge treat. Can't wait.

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## dietrich

> The Age Gap between Damian and the Other Batcharcters is also much bigger in YJ.
> 
> Bruce is roughly 38 years older, Dick is roughly 20 years older and Tim is roughly 15 years older.
> 
> So by the time Damian would be old enough to be Robin, everybody else would have aged significantly past their comic ages, especially all the characers of Tim's generation.


personally hoping the go for the fast aged Damian which means no reason why he shouldn't be in the show season with jon coming the season after. that follows the comics and YJ has been true to the comics.

I hope they do something else with jason besides the going after the replacement crap that they do EVERY time

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## dietrich

> https://mobile.twitter.com/WBHomeEnt...76646548197377
> 
> Justice League Dark: Apokolips War Trailer is out today.


Nice Avatar Yennefer. I like.

----------


## Blue22

> Trailer for Apokolips War is out, enjoy. Oh and definitely surprised to see an R-rating on this.


A big ass DC crossover movie with my favorite Robin and my favorite female DC hero (Raven) in seemingly prominent roles? Color me excited!

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## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/langbuliang

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## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/langbuliang





https://twitter.com/katomeee

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## CPSparkles

batfamily by Nguyen



Supersons by Gleason and coloured by fan




Damian



https://twitter.com/ttt12349

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## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/02png



https://twitter.com/glitter_dc

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## CPSparkles

> Trailer for Apokolips War is out, enjoy. Oh and definitely surprised to see an R-rating on this.


can't wait for this. Damian is upset with Clark?

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## Katana500

> can't wait for this. Damian is upset with Clark?


Im assuming Damian probably blames Clark for the failure of the attack on Darksied. 

I expect most of the Batfamily and Titans will probably be wiped out - so Damian is probably justifiably fuming

----------


## Frontier

> can't wait for this. Damian is upset with Clark?





> Im assuming Damian probably blames Clark for the failure of the attack on Darksied. 
> 
> I expect most of the Batfamily and Titans will probably be wiped out - so Damian is probably justifiably fuming


Yeah, I think Damian blames Clark for losing his father, the rest of the Batfamily, and the Titans. 

And then we see he's taken over the League of Assassins, so he probably felt like he had nothing left.

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## Jackalope89

> Yeah, I think Damian blames Clark for losing his father, *the rest of the Batfamily*, and the Titans. 
> 
> And then we see he's taken over the League of Assassins, so he probably felt like he had nothing left.


Well, maybe not Tim. But Dick and Babs? Yes.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Well, maybe not Tim. But Dick and Babs? Yes.


Tim doesn’t exist

----------


## Jackalope89

> Tim doesn’t exist


No wonder that Damian is unusually content in the DCAMU.

----------


## Katana500

> Well, maybe not Tim. But Dick and Babs? Yes.


I think Kate will probably die as well. And maybe Batwing. I think they will both show up again. seems to have everyone who has appeared in this universe in the movie.

----------


## dietrich

> Yeah, I think Damian blames Clark for losing his father, the rest of the Batfamily, and the Titans. 
> 
> And then we see he's taken over the League of Assassins, so he probably felt like he had nothing left.


That sounds like a lot for one movie

----------


## Shen

> I think Kate will probably die as well. And maybe Batwing. I think they will both show up again. seems to have everyone who has appeared in this universe in the movie.


They do show up, pretty much everyone is gone after the initial fight though. Damian does blame Clark btw, that's all I'm gonna say about that. I've seen an interview with the voice actors and I have to say this movie is basically DC's version of Thanos' snap. I'm not exaggerating - it's to that extent.

----------


## Frontier

> They do show up, pretty much everyone is gone after the initial fight though. Damian does blame Clark btw, that's all I'm gonna say about that. *I've seen an interview with the voice actors and I have to say this movie is basically DC's version of Thanos' snap.* I'm not exaggerating - it's to that extent.


And there is also indications that they're going to use time-travel to try and fix everything.

----------


## Yennefer

> Nice Avatar Yennefer. I like.


Thanks very much!  :Smile: 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Stuart certainly knows how to do his job..... Unfortunately for the fans  :Big Grin:

----------


## Shen

> And there is also indications that they're going to use time-travel to try and fix everything.


Well this is the DCAMU's finale, so you can bet it's gonna be epic. I've known the basic plot for two days or so (because of my own theories - which have credence thanks to the trailer,  and an annoying friend with spoilers who won't shut up.) and Its still a lot to take in.

----------


## Katana500

I wonder what will come after the DCAMU. i hope its just some minor tweaks adding characters people want like Tim and Jason and not completely wiping the slate clean. Cause im a fan of Damian in the animated movies.

----------


## Shen

> I wonder what will come after the DCAMU. i hope its just some minor tweaks adding characters people want like Tim and Jason and not completely wiping the slate clean. Cause im a fan of Damian in the animated movies.


I'm also a fan of Animated Damian, he's gone through a lot and his character has developed pretty well. I'm not sure about the DCAMU's future, like Frontier said there's been talk about time-travel so we might just experience DC's favorite failsafe, for better or worse.

----------


## dietrich

Bruce and Damian



https://twitter.com/1418mogmog

Mother and Son





https://twitter.com/S6i_a

----------


## Arctic Cyclist

> And there is also indications that they're going to use time-travel to try and fix everything.


Huh. Think they could use that to reintroduce consent into Damian's conception? Considering that the dub con from Catwoman #1 was removed and Ivy is no longer a serial rapist and murderer despite that being core to her character introductions, it would be...how shall I put it...a great way to rectify some of the rampant racism that has become an issue with DC and the WB.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Huh. Think they could use that to reintroduce consent into Damian's conception? Considering that the dub con from Catwoman #1 was removed and Ivy is no longer a serial rapist and murderer despite that being core to her character introductions, it would be...how shall I put it...a great way to rectify some of the rampant racism that has become an issue with DC and the WB.


I think "bigotry" is the word you're looking for.

----------


## Digifiend

> I wonder what will come after the DCAMU. i hope its just some minor tweaks adding characters people want like Tim and Jason and not completely wiping the slate clean. Cause im a fan of Damian in the animated movies.


Yeah, isn't it largely based on New 52? That's going to need changing. I'd go with something closer to Young Justice, where all the heroes exist, but their relative ages to each other don't necessarily match the comics.

----------


## dietrich

Good News Everybody
Damian is in the next Leviathan series. Joy!

I was worried I wouldn't be able to scratch my bendis Damian itch.

----------


## Yennefer

Flash is going to bring huge changes in continuity...  Is this some preparation for the next universe? 5G or something? What do you think it means for Damian and rest?
Also, now that Rebirth is the main earth... New52 is now an alternate reality? A different earth like earth 2 etc? 
*Feeling Confused*

----------


## Rac7d*

> Good News Everybody
> Damian is in the next Leviathan series. Joy!
> 
> I was worried I wouldn't be able to scratch my bendis Damian itch.


And he is still robin

----------


## Ansa

> Good News Everybody
> Damian is in the next Leviathan series. Joy!
> 
> I was worried I wouldn't be able to scratch my bendis Damian itch.


Damian was in Leviathan Dawn, but it's only one issue to set up the new Checkmate book where Talia will play a bigger role.
I think the people on this page are only there because they were in Event Leviathan, not necessarily because they'll be in Checkmate. It looks like a recap page.

----------


## dietrich

> Damian was in Leviathan Dawn, but it's only one issue to set up the new Checkmate book where Talia will play a bigger role.
> I think the people on this page are only there because they were in Event Leviathan, not necessarily because they'll be in Checkmate. It looks like a recap page.


According to Bendis on twitter Damian's in the story

----------


## dietrich

> Flash is going to bring huge changes in continuity...  Is this some preparation for the next universe? 5G or something? What do you think it means for Damian and rest?
> Also, now that Rebirth is the main earth... New52 is now an alternate reality? A different earth like earth 2 etc? 
> *Feeling Confused*


The latest news is that 5G is changing. They are not going to be making the big changes ie age up and it doesn't look like the Replacements are happening. Over on the DC side of this forum there's more info

Yeah DoomsDay Clock resulted in new52 now being it own Earth but that can't be since so much of Rebirth is built on and new52. Some many stories build on new 52 runs e.g Batman, Tec etc
Levithan Event is following on from the new 52.
Heretic is from the new52
RHATO had bunker a character that was created in the new52 etc

I think DC is still sorting out what's what.

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...-Wide-Relaunch

----------


## dietrich

> And he is still robin


This could be set before he gives up Robin.

----------


## Jackalope89

> The latest news is that 5G is changing. They are not going to be making the big changes ie age up and it doesn't look like the Replacements are happening. Over on the DC side of this forum there's more info
> 
> Yeah DoomsDay Clock resulted in new52 now being it own Earth but that can't be since so much of Rebirth is built on and new52. Some many stories build on new 52 runs e.g Batman, Tec etc
> Levithan Event is following on from the new 52.
> Heretic is from the new52
> RHATO had bunker a character that was created in the new52 etc
> 
> I think DC is still sorting out what's what.
> 
> https://community.cbr.com/showthread...-Wide-Relaunch


A few things of the New52 remain, but events like Doomsday Clock and Superman Reborn (before Bendis took over) changed it so a lot of things _didn't_ happen as well.

----------


## Arctic Cyclist

> Flash is going to bring huge changes in continuity...  Is this some preparation for the next universe? 5G or something? What do you think it means for Damian and rest?
> Also, now that Rebirth is the main earth... New52 is now an alternate reality? A different earth like earth 2 etc? 
> *Feeling Confused*


It's basic multiverse theory: for every choice made, there is another universe where the opposite choice was made.

So there's Rebirth where Bruce let's his willy do all the thinking, and then there's the new 52 where Bruce didn't forget Damian's birthday or nearly destroy reality because he wasn't interested in banging Selina.

Just like the pre52 and pre Crisis(es) universes all exist as well, as do the various animated universes.

----------


## Ansa

> According to Bendis on twitter Damian's in the story


He wrote on twitter that Damian is in Leviathan Dawn, and he was, not Checkmate.

----------


## Digifiend

> This could be set before he gives up Robin.


Anything out this month definitely would be, as it's next month when he apparently gives up the mantle.

As for the continuity, Flash #750 is a must read. It acknowledges that Teen Titans 1960s and 2010s origins both happened, in the same universe, despite being a contradiction. Meanwhile, next week's Young Justice confirms that Arrowette and Aqualad both remember pre-Flashpoint, yet in last week's Action Comics Superman didn't know Conner - another contradiction. Wally West is currently cleaning up this mess.

----------


## Yennefer

> The latest news is that 5G is changing. They are not going to be making the big changes ie age up and it doesn't look like the Replacements are happening. Over on the DC side of this forum there's more info
> 
> Yeah DoomsDay Clock resulted in new52 now being it own Earth but that can't be since so much of Rebirth is built on and new52. Some many stories build on new 52 runs e.g Batman, Tec etc
> Levithan Event is following on from the new 52.
> Heretic is from the new52
> RHATO had bunker a character that was created in the new52 etc
> 
> I think DC is still sorting out what's what.
> 
> https://community.cbr.com/showthread...-Wide-Relaunch


The multiverse makes no sense. Also, it's a shame that we will get a "reboot", only to see the same things again... I really wanted to see Damian aged up.
Anyways, I didn't believe that they would indeed have the guts to go for something so great and permanent....destroying the classic profit-recipe.
Anyways, I will look it up...Thank you very much!  :Smile: 




> It's basic multiverse theory: for every choice made, there is another universe where the opposite choice was made.
> 
> So there's Rebirth where Bruce let's his willy do all the thinking, and then there's the new 52 where Bruce didn't forget Damian's birthday or nearly destroy reality because he wasn't interested in banging Selina.
> 
> Just like the pre52 and pre Crisis(es) universes all exist as well, as do the various animated universes.


That willy comment was Divine �� 
Also... As I learn more about the continuity and how the comic world works, I really do thank the universe that I didn't like reading them during the previous years... It must be REALLY frustrating to see the main story changing and being recycled again and again.




> According to Bendis on twitter Damian's in the story


So Bendis' hands are on Damian again! I really wonder to which mass murderer he will connect him now...
If they try to destroy Damian's image once again... Or if they (anyone of them) go for the evil future thing I am out of DC for good.

----------


## adrikito

> Trailer for Apokolips War is out, enjoy. Oh and definitely surprised to see an R-rating on this.



MORE DARKSEID IS ALWAYS GOOD APPARENTLY..

*BOW BEFORE ME.. Darkseid has a NEW VOICE AGAIN?*

Who is the man with beard and green eyes talking with Damian?  :Confused:   :Confused:  


1:18.. WTF.. Damian is taller? How many years happened here? even that guy that is probably superman(With Green eyes) has part of his hair in white(is older)

----------


## Jackalope89

> The multiverse makes no sense. Also, it's a shame that we will get a "reboot", only to see the same things again... I really wanted to see Damian aged up.
> Anyways, I didn't believe that they would indeed have the guts to go for something so great and permanent....destroying the classic profit-recipe.
> Anyways, I will look it up...Thank you very much! 
> 
> 
> 
> That willy comment was Divine �� 
> Also... As I learn more about the continuity and how the comic world works, I really do thank the universe that I didn't like reading them during the previous years... It must be REALLY frustrating to see the main story changing and being recycled again and again.
> 
> ...


What about writing him like he was in Battle for the Cowl?

----------


## WonderNight

> MORE DARKSEID IS ALWAYS GOOD APPARENTLY..
> 
> *BOW BEFORE ME.. Darkseid has a NEW VOICE AGAIN?*
> 
> Who is the man with beard and green eyes talking with Damian?   
> 
> 
> 1:18.. WTF.. Damian is taller? How many years happened here? even that guy that is probably superman(With Green eyes) has part of his hair in white(is older)


It's superman with kryptonite inside him.

----------


## adrikito

I heard another person that he is a Green lantern now.. 

But probably he was JOKING about his green eyes..

 :Stick Out Tongue:  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## WonderNight

> Probably.. I heard another person that he is a Green lantern now.. 
> 
> But probably he was JOKING about his green eyes..


its kryptonite. You can see him get a kryptonite s shield on his chest.

----------


## Jackalope89

Yeah, I'm smelling movie-reboot with this. Well, after this movie, anyway. Probably include characters that were left out (Jason, Tim, Jon, etc).

----------


## dietrich

> What about writing him like he was in Battle for the Cowl?


damian was okay in Battle for the Cowl aside from the Joy Ride with that girl. 

By Okay I mean compared to others

----------


## dietrich

> Yeah, I'm smelling movie-reboot with this. Well, after this movie, anyway. Probably include characters that were left out (Jason, Tim, Jon, etc).


Yeah I don't get why Jason wasn't in this universe instead we got Luke and Kate [who are okay but would rather swap Jason for both]

I would welcome a Reboot not just because as a fan of a Robin that was included it would be a better experience not having the frustration of fans of the excluded Robins which manifests in Damian bashing comments or why Damian not tim type posts which usually end up escalating.

More characters lead to more stories and adaptations that are closer to the source. 

I would have thought that a shared Universe would be just the setting for introducing the whole batfamily. show his world in it's entirety since you've got a universe to build and you've got the time to do it gradually Unlike stand alone movies.

I hope they just don't stick to stand alones after this universe ends. I've enjoyed this shared Universe and the evolution of the characters. JLD 2 really seems to be giving resolutions to quite a few arcs and dynamics that I never even knew needed resolution from the spoilers.

----------


## dietrich

https://phantomchick.tumblr.com

Dick and Damian



https://ruzeriel.tumblr.com

Damian and Jason YJ



https://mahimawari.tumblr.com

----------


## dietrich

Damian, Talia and bruce






https://neebluarts.tumblr.com

From Nightwing Rebirth

----------


## dietrich

Robins



https://theabisand.tumblr.com


Damian and Tim




https://cynthasizercreates.tumblr.com

----------


## dietrich

“What I would do to see you smile.”  A mini with the Robins
By Doc Squash

https://doc-squash.tumblr.com/

----------


## dietrich



----------


## dietrich



----------


## Yennefer

> What about writing him like he was in Battle for the Cowl?


I can't have an opinion because I haven't read it thoroughly...! Although from the pages I read with that girl... It seemed like he normal 10yo bratty self (I dont know of he was indeed 10 at this story)  :Smile: 




> Yeah I don't get why Jason wasn't in this universe instead we got Luke and Kate [who are okay but would rather swap Jason for both]
> 
> I would welcome a Reboot not just because as a fan of a Robin that was included it would be a better experience not having the frustration of fans of the excluded Robins which manifests in Damian bashing comments or why Damian not tim type posts which usually end up escalating.
> 
> More characters lead to more stories and adaptations that are closer to the source. 
> 
> I would have thought that a shared Universe would be just the setting for introducing the whole batfamily. show his world in it's entirety since you've got a universe to build and you've got the time to do it gradually Unlike stand alone movies.
> 
> I hope they just don't stick to stand alones after this universe ends. I've enjoyed this shared Universe and the evolution of the characters. JLD 2 really seems to be giving resolutions to quite a few arcs and dynamics that I never even knew needed resolution from the spoilers.


Storytime:
I kinda hated batman till my 16 years... Thought it was dark and stupid. I started my journey in DC by a youtube recommendation: it was the scene from SoB when Damian is introduced. Anyways, I ended up watching all of their scenes together on YB and then the whole movies of the DCAMU. You cant imagine how frustrating was to understand what the heck was happening with the Robins (I thought it was only Dick and then Damian) and the general status of the bat family when I started reading the comics...
I cant understand why in the 14 years of the coexistence of the robins, none of them in the DC offices didn't put them all together in an animated movie. It would be cool and fun to see them interact....

----------


## Jackalope89

Damian is written like a stereotypical stupid teen boy. "Hey, I'm taking dad's cool car out to impress girl that will never be seen again!"

----------


## dietrich

> I can't have an opinion because I haven't read it thoroughly...! Although from the pages I read with that girl... It seemed like he normal 10yo bratty self (I dont know of he was indeed 10 at this story) 
> 
> 
> 
> Storytime:
> I kinda hated batman till my 16 years... Thought it was dark and stupid. I started my journey in DC by a youtube recommendation: it was the scene from SoB when Damian is introduced. Anyways, I ended up watching all of their scenes together on YB and then the whole movies of the DCAMU. You cant imagine how frustrating was to understand what the heck was happening with the Robins (I thought it was only Dick and then Damian) and the general status of the bat family when I started reading the comics...
> I cant understand why in the 14 years of the coexistence of the robins, none of them in the DC offices didn't put them all together in an animated movie. It would be cool and fun to see them interact....


Ha! Snap! Son of Batman got me into comics too and just like you I also wasn't aware that there were other Robins besides Dick the one that wore what looked like underpants that everyone knew. He was also in the movie.
And now Damian the new one.

I found his story and and the character interesting and just had to know more more. See his journey. I was surprised to hear he was dead [from staff at the comic shop when I went to get  my 1st ever comic. B&R vol 1]

Killed off.

I still bought it never dreaming he would be brought back. I didn't know about comics and people coming back

----------


## Yennefer

> Ha! Snap! Son of Batman got me into comics too and just like you I also wasn't aware that there were other Robins besides Dick the one that wore what looked like underpants that everyone knew. He was also in the movie.
> And now Damian the new one.
> 
> I found his story and and the character interesting and just had to know more more. See his journey. I was surprised to hear he was dead [from staff at the comic shop when I went to get  my 1st ever comic. B&R vol 1]
> 
> Killed off.
> 
> I still bought it never dreaming he would be brought back. I didn't know about comics and people coming back


My God haha!!
I was lucky enough to be introduced into this dark world during a period that nothing major (like this major) was happening....  I had so many comics to read back then and now waiting a whole month for small developments is such a torture... I imagine how it felt waiting a whole year to see Damian coming back to life...

----------


## Yennefer

I will slightly guide this conversation into a different direction... I am waiting for your opinions!
I have just finished Batman (2016) #54... The one with Dick? 
Bruce was such a wonderful father to him... And I got really angry and sad that this didn't happen with Damian. (I get a bit disappointed that those pages have such an effect on my emotions lol)...
Dick didn't accept Bruce. He pushed him away. (He even got out of the manor at 16 and got the big bat to tell him that he will respect him), but Bruce fought to earn his acceptance and was very expressive with him when he was younger.

Damian from the other side breathes Bruce's air. He had fought so much for him to be accepted, but he always faced a cold, hard, neglectful and distant man. 

I put the classic dilemma for this family: He seems to love Dick first and most of all and then all the others. Sometimes I just think he doesn't care about Damian at all.

And it bothers me so much, I find it completely unfair... 

I know there's been a bad shift at their relationship since Rebirth... But looking at it generally, I conclude that Bruce's father side was extremely rarely expressed to Damian.

And I wonder: How is it possible to do it with his own kid? Sure he was a result of rape and this fact can affect the emotions of a parent and their relationship with the child(And I certainly do not judge that)... But: *In the case of batman only* how can he be so distant, when he already hurts for the children in pain? Why he ignores his child that has been in the most of it there is for a person at his age? I don't think the fact that he was a result of such an act is the main reason of Bruce's negligence to him.
They both were victims of Talia (in my opinion I much like the first version, where they just fall in love), thus Ra's. And I believe Damian was in the worst position of them all.


To say something here: I would not like to go to the "rape" situation, because every case is different and it is so tragic for a child to be born under these conditions for both parties (the victim and the child).
And generally I don't want us to express beliefs on it, because it is a sensitive matter to touch... Please, excuse me for taking such a liberty by asking that. I know it's a bit limiting.

I am waiting for your thoughts!
Thank you  :Smile:

----------


## Jackalope89

> I will slightly guide this conversation into a different direction... I am waiting for your opinions!
> I have just finished Batman (2016) #54... The one with Dick? 
> Bruce was such a wonderful father to him... And I got really angry and sad that this didn't happen with Damian. (I get a bit disappointed that those pages have such an effect on my emotions lol)...
> Dick didn't accept Bruce. He pushed him away. (He even got out of the manor at 16 and got the big bat to tell him that he will respect him), but Bruce fought to earn his acceptance and was very expressive with him when he was younger.
> 
> Damian from the other side breathes Bruce's air. He had fought so much for him to be accepted, but he always faced a cold, hard, neglectful and distant man. 
> 
> I put the classic dilemma for this family: He seems to love Dick first and most of all and then all the others. Sometimes I just think he doesn't care about Damian at all.
> 
> ...


Bruce since 2016, really hasn't been much of a father (outside of the Super Sons books) to any of his kids, not just Damian.

----------


## dietrich

> I will slightly guide this conversation into a different direction... I am waiting for your opinions!
> I have just finished Batman (2016) #54... The one with Dick? 
> Bruce was such a wonderful father to him... And I got really angry and sad that this didn't happen with Damian. (I get a bit disappointed that those pages have such an effect on my emotions lol)...
> Dick didn't accept Bruce. He pushed him away. (He even got out of the manor at 16 and got the big bat to tell him that he will respect him), but Bruce fought to earn his acceptance and was very expressive with him when he was younger.
> 
> Damian from the other side breathes Bruce's air. He had fought so much for him to be accepted, but he always faced a cold, hard, neglectful and distant man. 
> 
> I put the classic dilemma for this family: He seems to love Dick first and most of all and then all the others. Sometimes I just think he doesn't care about Damian at all.
> 
> ...


irst the Rape.

That was a retcon by Morrison of the Original story in which Bruce and Talia were engaged to be married.

Morrison said he made a mistake since it had been so long since he read Barr's 1987 Son of the Demon : the comic that had the relationship and Birth that Morrison based his Son of Batman and Damian's origin on.

He later apologised and retconed it. Tomasi also underlined the retcon in B&R where Bruce recalls the night of conception and said that he fell in love and then one night in the desert he followed his heart.

The animated verse kept the rape though.

I do believe that Bruce loves Damian but the thing is Batman is a different character today than he was back in the day when Dick was Robin. 

Batman's world wasn't as dark as it became in the 70's when O'neil made him grittier to counter the Adam West effect. This only got worse as Burton's movie came out and then Miller cemented his Loner batman this as Batman with the popularity of his Dark Knight. This is still the most popular version. The one Batman fans are here for and the one most writers like.

Morrison himself said that aside from his death always being the plan he also said that he knew Scott liked his Batman alone so he didn't want to burden him with a kid.

So even before Scott Synder took over Morrison knew that Scott was going to have a problem with Damian.
Tomasi later let it slip at a con that Scott found the Robin concept to be irresponsible.

More and more writers and creatives now viewed Robin as problematic and were unwilling or begrudgingly using him. Damian if he wasn't Bruce's kid would not have been part of King's batman even though he was a tiny part.

DC also has an problem with stories featuring families as Tomasi revealed he was told that fans don't read Superhero comics to see families and fairs.
They want to see Super man punching the big bad.

He had to fight for every family focused issue of his Superman run.

Jason was the last Robin to be a constant next to Batman. After Jason's death DC introduced a new Robin because they had or saw a idea that could turn a problematic element into an IP.

Millers Robin concept from the DK series.
In the 90's DC set out to make Robin an independent hero. Less of the father son dynamic more a professional dynamic. Robin would be marketed as a solo hero with a life and world separate form Batman's. With his own villains, title and stories. They put a lot of effort and resources into making Tim a stand alone hero who was a partner not family. The father son dynamic was gone.

The irony is that the 90's also was when a lot of what is now classed as the Bat family were introduced but they weren't supposed to be Bat family. They were to be stand alone heroes it's just that with the comic market decline, the number of books gets slashed and those characters need panel space leading to my next point.


Batman wasn't as popular and he didn't have a million side characters who need the boost and visibility of his name and books to survive or push them.

Batman titles where be could have seen Bruce and Damian interact noteably Detective is the only place where these character can get the panel space they need.

Rebirth Tec was used to repaired and boost characters that were damaged by the past. Showcase characters who had fallen in popularity and gave a home to characters who had no team title they can be in while DC worked on a place for them.

King's Batman had a theme that the writer built his whole run on which didn't include the family. Now Tec and Batman are focused on giving the Batman fans what they have been missing for 4 years now.
What they have been very vocal about and what resulted in king's run losing readers when compared to Synder's Batman run.

Batman being Batman and solving crimes. The most popular and best selling version of Batman.


I agree that Dick without a shadow of doubt is Bruce's favourite. It's also understandable he was the first and they have a connection and history that Damian will never have with bruce.

Fans of that duo are lucky that Dick was introduced at a time when Batman was allowed to be a certain way. The Duo had the luxury of time and a world that was just the two and Alfred/that elderly woman.

 The Batman world was focused on the dynamic duo writers had decades to tell stories that showed the two grow together. Organically.

It was just Bruce and Dick and occasionally Alfred [and i want to say Aunt Mildred but I can't recall her name]

We will never have that and none of the bat kids had that but it's not because bruce doesn't love them it's just that the world [both real and within the Batverse] has changed drastically.

Batman is a different character. His world, his character, his stories and what DC need him to be has changed.

However we are lucky that we got Tomasi's Batman and Robin which explored their father son dynamic rather than their Batman and Robin dynamic.

DC and creatives have made an effort to give us the duo as father and son in so many comics because they could not in the batman titles.

It's a shame that fans often call Bruce a bad father or complain about Damian not being in the bat titles when there are legitimate and understandable reasons for his absence.

They ignore everything that isn't in Batman, Tec and TT.
Damian and Bruce were in so many titles that DC fearing over exposure put him off limits.

We had lots of stories showing how Bruce's love for Damian. How he cares for him, worries about him and being a great dad There's so many examples in a multitude of DC titles:

From Ongoing comics like Superman to GA.
We had limited comics like Shadow/Batman to the TMNt.
We had Event comics from Metal to DCeased.
Anthologies from Nuclear winter to the Halloween Cursed Comics
Comics set in the future like Batman Beyond
Even Elseworlds and What If with circumstances and plots lines that test the limit of Bruce's love for Damian. Injustice 2 and Batman v Deathstroke and in these Bruce still shows that he loves Damian even at his worst. Even when he might not be his.

These are all from Rebirth. Don't include their regular comics and isn't a complete list of their Rebirth appearances/series or stories together.

I don't expect to ever get a series like Tomasi's Batman and Robin ever again. DC isn't interested in that side of Batman. I don't expect to get lots of stories which show Bruce being an attentive dad loving dedicating time to Damian because that results in backlash from fans of other bat kids who view it as favouritism or blood being prioritised over adopted  never as he is a minor and needs a parental attention more so than a grown kid would.

Damian fans will never had what Dick Grayson fans have. Not the sheer amount of content or the type of simple stories about a father and Son doing random stuff/glimpses of them at home just being family dealing with family stuff like the old comics did.

Batman doesn't do slice of life anymore Heck until recently he barely did his Bruce Wayne life.

 I am grateful for what we have which is a lot when you consider the factors above.

I'm grateful that some writers want to write Batman being a good dad. They pushed against DC and the Bat Office so we got plenty of quality content. 

Other characters haven't been so lucky look at Superman and how quickly the Rebirth family wholesome goodness was undone.

----------


## dietrich

> Bruce since 2016, really hasn't been much of a father (outside of the Super Sons books) to any of his kids, not just Damian.


Lol Bruce has been a questionable and often not good father for quite a while now.

Rebirth just went nuts on the douche baggery because he had a run that was themed to make him laser focused on one thing and while pushing the narrative that he only cares for his lover Selina.

----------


## dietrich

A character like Batman and good father is something that should have an asterisk. It's gotten harder to balance Batman and good father.

The bigger he and his world becomes the worse it seems to get. Not helped by writers of batfamily using him [usually in a negative way] to develop the family members.

Or using him to drive their plot and ramp up angst.

Similar to how Batman writers use his support as devices to further his narrative.

Writers just keep playing this card.

It bugs me is when fans call him neglectful because the family aren't in the Batman titles. Or need to have on panel evidence in the batman titles that minors like Damian. Tim and Cass live at the manor in stories that have nothing to do with them when we've already seen from other titles that they do live there.

that's not neglectful or an indicator that he doesn't care. It's absence due to plot and shouldn't reflect badly on Batman or lead to accusations of neglect.

Batman is a good father but he's also the worst.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Bruce since 2016, really hasn't been much of a father (outside of the Super Sons books) to any of his kids, not just Damian.


Thier all adults 
Tim being a partner or adopted retconned
He never took in cass
Can’t comment on dukes status with Alfred gone

----------


## Jackalope89

> Thier all adults 
> Tim being a partner or adopted retconned
> He never took in cass
> Can’t comment on dukes status with Alfred gone


Tim's pre-Flashpoint history was brought back. And last I heard, was still 16.

----------


## Aahz

> Tim's pre-Flashpoint history was brought back. And last I heard, was still 16.


Do we actually know what the status of his parents is?

The were alive in B&RE but pre flashpoint hi mother died before he became robin and his father during identity crisis.

----------


## Ansa

> Do we actually know what the status of his parents is?
> 
> The were alive in B&RE but pre flashpoint hi mother died before he became robin and his father during identity crisis.


According to Batman Annual #4 they are dead. At least Jack is. Bruce hugged him in one panel on the anniversary of the death of Tim's father. But it's written by King and we all know he was kinda terrible at continuity. Just look at how many things he got wrong about the Flashpoint universe alone. And it came off like him throwing that hug in pretty randomly so people would get off his back for Bruce punching Tim in a previous Batman issue, but that's a different topic.

----------


## Ansa

> A character like Batman and good father is something that should have an asterisk. It's gotten harder to balance Batman and good father.
> 
> The bigger he and his world becomes the worse it seems to get. Not helped by writers of batfamily using him [usually in a negative way] to develop the family members.
> 
> Or using him to drive their plot and ramp up angst.
> 
> Similar to how Batman writers use his support as devices to further his narrative.
> 
> Writers just keep playing this card.
> ...


But as it is now we have textual evidence that he's not properly taking care of them, it's not just their pure absence in the stories. It's both things together that makes people call Bruce a neglectful parent.

----------


## Ansa

If it was just "DC wants to tell stories where Bruce punches bad guys" that would be fine. Nothing I'm interested in, but whatever.
The problem is in how many modern stories, both in the solo/team books and Batman's own books, Bruce doesn't punch the bad guy, he punches his family and friends.

----------


## Digifiend

> Do we actually know what the status of his parents is?
> 
> The were alive in B&RE but pre flashpoint hi mother died before he became robin and his father during identity crisis.


That's a good point, because before Flashpoint, Tim had changed his name to Tim Wayne. That's not been restored, so while his origin is back, we can't be sure his entire history is. If he was adopted, then any usage of Drake should only be by people who don't know about it or a slip of the tongue. 

Though his Drake codename in Young Justice would make a lot more sense if it was no longer his real name.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Tim's pre-Flashpoint history was brought back. And last I heard, was still 16.


Again as Damian grows older and he stays still...... he might as well go back to limbo

----------


## dietrich

> Again as Damian grows older and he stays still...... he might as well go back to limbo


He's ageing backwards  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## dietrich

> But as it is now we have textual evidence that he's not properly taking care of them, it's not just their pure absence in the stories. It's both things together that makes people call Bruce a neglectful parent.



The punching as communication thing is so bad there is no escaping it, that is Bruce saying that he abuses his kids.

----------


## dietrich

> Thier all adults 
> Tim being a partner or adopted retconned
> He never took in cass
> Can’t comment on dukes status with Alfred gone



Honestly Dick is the only one I would say is an adult and doesn't need Bruce.

He has his own life and Bruce has no controls over him.

Tim is a minor but is also quite mature and is able to run his life with needing Bruce/a parent. However that's not to be encouraged.

In fact Dick and Tim are like the Parents and the ones that the family look to and depend on. City of Bane even Damian asked Tim for advice. He has only ever done that with Dick and Bruce.

Duke lives with his uncle who is his legal Guardian.

----------


## Ansa

> Honestly Dick is the only one I would say is an adult and doesn't need Bruce.
> 
> He has his own life and Bruce has no controls over him.
> 
> Tim is a minor but is also quite mature and is able to run his life with needing Bruce/a parent. However that's not to be encouraged.
> 
> In fact Dick and Tim are like the Parents and the ones that the family look to and depend on. City of Bane even Damian asked Tim for advice. He has only ever done that with Dick and Bruce.
> 
> Duke lives with his uncle who is his legal Guardian.


I think this is my problem when people talk like "Damian/any other minor is so idependent, they don't need supervision" or "they have experienced way worse from their previous family, they can take it"
...isn't that exactly the reason why they need an adult they can lean on who is not going to abuse them?

----------


## Ansa

> The punching as communication thing is so bad there is no escaping it, that is Bruce saying that he abuses his kids.


Yeah honestly, I don't understand people that still think of comic Bruce as a good dad. No hugs in the world can make up for the fact that you hit your kids when you're emotionally compromised or you want to pretend that you are. Bruce thinking hitting his kids when he's supposed to be at rock bottom (has happened a lot over the last few years) is convincing proof for his act and training his students for that scenario is kinda messed up. Basically admitting to yourself that this is normal for you in situations like these. And he's Batman, nothing can convince me that was the only way to send that message. But hey, it's canon now!

With all the other things he's doing or not doing I really wonder how low the bar for being a good dad is for some people. 
Saying things like "Deathstroke or Trigon are worse fathers" isn't a very compelling argument. Bruce is not a supervillain, he's supposed to be a hero.
I think DC should try to remember that before they approve another story of Bruce beating one of his kids.

----------


## Ansa

Bruce sending Damian to Gotham to get beaten up and taken hostage by a man who has shown no redeeming qualities in Bruce's presence and then depicting Bruce with absolute confidence that everything will happen exactly as he predicted for no damn reason is also something I'm not really over yet.

----------


## sifighter

Only right I share this in the Damian thread after sharing it in Jon’s...DCeased 2 Dead Planet officially announced by Tom Taylor, with an Adult Jon and Damian.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TomTaylor...55048445026304

1D271488-BD72-4B08-A25F-8544844A0929.jpg

----------


## adrikito

DCASED 2?

Are you sure that these 3 are not TIM and KON?

This blonde Wonderwoman reminds me Wondergirl(cassandra) who is with them.

----------


## sifighter

> DCASED 2?
> 
> Are you sure that these 3 are not TIM and KON?
> 
> This blonde Wonderwoman reminds me Wondergirl(cassandra) who is with them.


That is Cassie, she survived the first series
Conner never showed up so he either doesn’t exist or is dead
Tim was confirmed dead in the first issue of DCeased, he and Dick got turned into zombies and infected Bruce. Jason Todd buried him in Unkillables.

----------


## adrikito

> That is Cassie, she survived the first series
> Conner never showed up so he either doesn’t exist or is dead
> Tim was confirmed dead in the first issue of DCeased, he and Dick got turned into zombies and infected Bruce. Jason Todd buried him in Unkillables.


Yeah.. I forgot it.. I remember both as zombies after you mentioning this..

So. DCEASED will be now like one adult version of Supersons... Damnit.  :Mad:  I lost the interest in see it again.

----------


## dietrich

> Only right I share this in the Damian thread after sharing it in Jon’s...DCeased 2 Dead Planet officially announced by Tom Taylor, with an Adult Jon and Damian.
> 
> https://mobile.twitter.com/TomTaylor...55048445026304
> 
> 1D271488-BD72-4B08-A25F-8544844A0929.jpg


To think Tom Taylor used to dislike Damian. RSOB changed his mind and Superson turned him into one of his favourites.

tom Taylor has become one of the dependable writers with clout that are keen to write Damian and I'm grateful.
Injustice 2, Detective, Dceased and This.

I'm looking forward to this and this JL the next Gen.

Dead Planet does this mean it's set on the old Earth? That Earth is dead without a sun .

----------


## dietrich

> I think this is my problem when people talk like "Damian/any other minor is so idependent, they don't need supervision" or "they have experienced way worse from their previous family, they can take it"
> ...isn't that exactly the reason why they need an adult they can lean on who is not going to abuse them?


Exactly. Just because a 13 year old can and does manage to live unsurpefvised doesn't mean they should.
Just because a 13 year old is used to living an independent life is even more reason why they shouldn't.

Just because a kid has been through Abuse and neglect and is toughened up doesn't mean they should be encouraged to carry on. 

Jaded independent kids like Tim and Damian should be pulled closer and nurtured to a point where they understand that it's okay and natural to depend on others.

By letting them manage their own lives Bruce is doing yet more Damage

----------


## dietrich

https://twitter.com/TheD4t4

----------


## Digifiend

Should've linked to the exact tweet, not just that guy's feed. And ugh, what a potty mouth.

----------


## Katana500

> Only right I share this in the Damian thread after sharing it in Jon’s...DCeased 2 Dead Planet officially announced by Tom Taylor, with an Adult Jon and Damian.
> 
> https://mobile.twitter.com/TomTaylor...55048445026304
> 
> 1D271488-BD72-4B08-A25F-8544844A0929.jpg


Looking forward to this. Place your bets. Will either Jon or Damian be paired up with Cassie.

This just makes me want an actual wondergirl for Damian generation more

----------


## adrikito

> https://twitter.com/TheD4t4


Poor guy.. This reminds me THE SIMPSONS. When Homer forgot Bart under the rain... Or maybe it was another serie?

----------


## dietrich

> Looking forward to this. Place your bets. Will either Jon or Damian be paired up with Cassie.
> 
> This just makes me want an actual wondergirl for Damian generation more


Neither hopefully. The trinity should never be paired together.

Tom Taylor made Kara all gaga over Damian in In justice but that also had plot reasons. I don't think Taylor is the kind to do romance aside from established romances.

Rather than share the the strong female I'd rather we finally get a Superbat or a scenario where they are both pinning for cassie but she's making eyes at Mera or something.

Or just stick to a story about bio-electro zombies.

I'm more excited about the prospect of Damian working with Constaintine and Swamp thing

----------


## CPSparkles

> Looking forward to this. Place your bets. Will either Jon or Damian be paired up with Cassie.
> 
> This just makes me want an actual wondergirl for Damian generation more


I don't think that's a great idea. Cassie was Conner's girl and had a thing with Tim. I don't want her doing the rounds here again.

I enjoy romance as much as the next but i doubt Taylor will be wasting valuable pages on Romance here.

They could bring back Hunter

----------


## CPSparkles

> Neither hopefully. The trinity should never be paired together.
> 
> Tom Taylor made Kara all gaga over Damian in In justice but that also had plot reasons. I don't think Taylor is the kind to do romance aside from established romances.
> 
> Rather than share the the strong female I'd rather we finally get a Superbat or a scenario where they are both pinning for cassie but she's making eyes at Mera or something.
> 
> Or just stick to a story about bio-electro zombies.
> 
> I'm more excited about the prospect of Damian working with Constaintine and Swamp thing


Mera is much older than Cassie

----------


## dietrich

> Mera is much older than Cassie


I know but that's still better than pairing her with superman or Batman

That should never happen.

----------


## Katana500

> I don't think that's a great idea. Cassie was Conner's girl and had a thing with Tim. I don't want her doing the rounds here again.
> 
> I enjoy romance as much as the next but i doubt Taylor will be wasting valuable pages on Romance here.


Im not sure. Taylor tends to put romance in quite alot of things he writes usually in the background though.

So i wouldnt be suprised if we saw atleast 1 or 2 pairings.


I have a feeling one of either Jon or Damian will die.  I don't see the new trinity surviving in one peace. 


I wonder what other characters we will see. Wallace will proably be the new Flash.  Did Emiko make it onto the arcs?

----------


## sifighter

Personally I'd prefer that Damian learn that at one point (because we  haven't seen the end of Unkillables so whose to say what happens) learns that Cassandra Cain and Jason Todd were alive before they left the planet. Maybe they'll be on Earth 2 and Damian will have some remnant of family or he comes back to a dying earth to find that they got left behind.

Also I'm more scared of the idea that zombie Superman will come back as like Golden Sun Zombie Superman....hopefully someone kept that magic/kryptonite superman sword.

Edit: Emiko as far as we saw never showed up, so we have no idea if she exists. Granted both arks I believe held...7 million each(?) so its possible she did get onboard. Its also just as possible that Ollie and Dinah have a kid with the time jump and that will be a new green arrow.

----------


## dietrich

Yeah i would like the Damian to meet up with his surviving family  [if they are still alive that is] 

There was an arc in Gotham and a safe area established by Ivy and the JL so I'm curious to find out if they made their way there like all the other survivors who managed to make it out safely and if not, why not.

Katana500 I hope we also get Wallace too. He's missing on the cover but I have high hopes

----------


## dietrich

Damian might go up against an undead Bruce in the new series. I know Alfred Buried him but he seems to be around again. Unless that's an undead Damian.

This is one series where I don't mind if Damian dies at the end so long as he gets some stories and awesome some moments which he has already had.

Also Zatana is in this. It seems like this series is going to be magic heavy.

----------


## Katana500

If I had to make predictions. 

Cassies arc will probably involve her facing off against undead wonderwoman. I kinda think she is least likely to die out of the Trinity.

If Jason and Cass survive unkilleables which I'm not all that optimisitc about. I think Damian might meet with them. If they arent it'll probably be Harley and Ivy I could see him interacting with. I wonder if Alfred will be dead by the time skip?

Not sure what Jon will be doing. He will probably be the leader im guessing.  Lois is probably still around but I could see her dying some how proabbly in a really badass way.

I bet in typical Taylor fashion. One of the supersons ends up needing to kill the other, and itll be sad.

Any characters who aren't main ones - anything could happen.  Shock value will defo get most of them! and I cannot wait!

----------


## Jackalope89

> Damian might go up against an undead Bruce in the new series. I know Alfred Buried him but he seems to be around again. Unless that's an undead Damian.
> 
> This is one series where I don't mind if Damian dies at the end so long as he gets some stories and awesome some moments which he has already had.
> 
> Also Zatana is in this. It seems like this series is going to be magic heavy.


It was Jason that buried Bruce, Tim, and Dick. Alfred just left their bodies laying in the cave. And abandoned the poor puppy too.
And other than Alfred, its just Jason and Cass left of the Bats.

----------


## dietrich

> It was Jason that buried Bruce, Tim, and Dick. Alfred just left their bodies laying in the cave. And abandoned the poor puppy too.
> And other than Alfred, its just Jason and Cass left of the Bats.


Why didn't Alfred evacuate with the rest of Gotham? I thought he did when he hooked up with Damian after giving him the batsuit

Jason didn't bury Bruce deep enough since he's back and looking for a fight. I'm sure it's Bruce since he still has some of the equipment from MF around his neck.

----------


## dietrich

> If I had to make predictions. 
> 
> Cassies arc will probably involve her facing off against undead wonderwoman. I kinda think she is least likely to die out of the Trinity.
> 
> If Jason and Cass survive unkilleables which I'm not all that optimisitc about. I think Damian might meet with them. If they arent it'll probably be Harley and Ivy I could see him interacting with. I wonder if Alfred will be dead by the time skip?
> 
> Not sure what Jon will be doing. He will probably be the leader im guessing.  Lois is probably still around but I could see her dying some how proabbly in a really badass way.
> 
> I bet in typical Taylor fashion. One of the supersons ends up needing to kill the other, and itll be sad.
> ...


There is noway Harley is dying in a story written by Tom Taylor.

In Typical Taylor fashion? What books of Taylor are these where a superson kills another?

the only thing that is consistent about Tom Taylor is that Tim and Nigbhtwing will die and Damian will mature.

This is the 1st time he's using Jon so I don't know but nothing about his previous works indicates that the Supersons will face off.

I mean Damian lead to Dick's death in Injustice 1 but Dick and Damian aren't like Jon and Damian.

I hope he doesn't try to do a Dick and damian Injustice thing here since we've not only seen it before but because Dick and Damian have a stronger bond it was more heart breaking and the effect it had on the entire world was palpable.
additionally the whole Deadman Dick storyline, Damian becoming nightwing and Nightwing going on to save the world from Ra's and redeem Red Hood etc

I really hope he doesn't have either superson kill another. It's been done better rather have their fathers kill them

----------


## Katana500

> There is noway Harley is dying in a story written by Tom Taylor.
> 
> In Typical Taylor fashion? What books of Taylor are these where a superson kills another?
> 
> the only thing that is consistent about Tom Taylor is that Tim and Nigbhtwing will die and Damian will mature.
> 
> This is the 1st time he's using Jon so I don't know but nothing about his previous works indicates that the Supersons will face off.
> 
> I mean Damian lead to Dick's death in Injustice 1 but Dick and Damian aren't like Jon and Damian.
> ...


No I dont think Harley will die. Sorry didnt word it well. I meant if Jason and Cass do - I think it would be Harley and Ivy he would meet up with in ruined Gotham.

And by typical Taylor fashion! I more just meant his like knack for like shocking deaths! 

I dunno. I can see one of them getting infected heriocally sacrificing themselves. and then asking the other to kill them.

If Damian gets infected I think he would trust Jon most to put him out his misery and vice versa.

----------


## dietrich

> No I dont think Harley will die. Sorry didnt word it well. I meant if Jason and Cass do - I think it would be Harley and Ivy he would meet up with in ruined Gotham.
> 
> And by typical Taylor fashion! I more just meant his like knack for like shocking deaths! 
> 
> I dunno. I can see one of them getting infected heriocally sacrificing themselves. and then asking the other to kill them.
> 
> If Damian gets infected I think he would trust Jon most to put him out his misery and vice versa.


Oh my bad. gotcha
I could see one of them getting infected though if that happened it'll most likely be a fight like with Jon and Clark or Alfred and Bruce.

The infected tend to lose their mind and become aggressive if I recall.

Eitherway at this point I trust Taylor. I can't make predictions because he has a way of blind siding you but I doubt the trinty will make it out all 3 of them alive.

----------


## Ansa

NIGHTWING #73
On sale June 17, 2020
The Joker knows Dick Grayson is Nightwing—and the plans he’s set in motion in will haunt Batman forever. Under the control of The Joker’s mysterious ally Punchline, Nightwing must battle the people he once loved most: Batgirl, the Robins, and…himself.
Written by DAN JURGENS
Art by RONAN CLIQUET
Cover by TRAVIS MOORE
Variant cover by ALAN QUAH
$3.99 US | 32 PAGES
FC | DC

Of course poor Dick, but also poor Damian. The confrontation with Bruce won't be nice and after that a mind controlled Dick is probably going to come after him for a fight.

----------


## Rac7d*

> I don't think that's a great idea. Cassie was Conner's girl and had a thing with Tim. I don't want her doing the rounds here again.
> 
> I enjoy romance as much as the next but i doubt Taylor will be wasting valuable pages on Romance here.
> 
> They could bring back Hunter


In this universe Connor is dead, it clearly been 7-10 years and their all adults so it doesn’t matter, she would have know them much longer then she ever did Tim or Kon

----------


## CPSparkles

> In this universe Connor is dead, it clearly been 7-10 years and their all adults so it doesnt matter, she would have know them much longer then she ever did Tim or Kon


My issue isn't even about how long she's known them it's about DC's No 1 female not being shared out amongst the male heroes. Especially one that's supposed to be a feminist icon.

we don't have to have a relationship. It adds nothing.

DCeased was a smash and only had the usually established relationships we don't need any extra here. Ollie and Dinah can cover the romance side.

----------


## CPSparkles

> NIGHTWING #73
> On sale June 17, 2020
> The Joker knows Dick Grayson is Nightwingand the plans hes set in motion in will haunt Batman forever. Under the control of The Jokers mysterious ally Punchline, Nightwing must battle the people he once loved most: Batgirl, the Robins, andhimself.
> Written by DAN JURGENS
> Art by RONAN CLIQUET
> Cover by TRAVIS MOORE
> Variant cover by ALAN QUAH
> $3.99 US | 32 PAGES
> FC | DC
> ...


Dc can just F**k off with this

----------


## CPSparkles



----------


## CPSparkles



----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/OtterTheAuthor

----------


## CPSparkles

Best Robins




https://twitter.com/gothamtwinks


Robins



https://twitter.com/smahssa





https://twitter.com/xylo_bee

----------


## CPSparkles

Robin



https://twitter.com/abusedmember




https://twitter.com/eksxm

----------


## dietrich

> Robin
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/abusedmember


This is fire!

----------


## Ansa

> Dc can just F**k off with this


Yeah. Obviously I don't know exactly what's going to happen, but Dick didn't need to be mind controlled again and Damian doesn't need another family member to hurt him. If he shows up in this issue. We still don't know what he's going to do after the annual and the term Robins is pretty vague. Could be all of them, could be only the ones Nightwing can find.
But Damian is the only one of them who has played a role in the post-headshot issues so excluding him would be kinda weird.

----------


## Ansa

The Nightwing solicitation reminds me of this cover:



minus the Talon thing

----------


## CPSparkles

> The Nightwing solicitation reminds me of this cover:
> 
> 
> 
> minus the Talon thing


This turned out to be a trick cover but Dc must have really wanted to do this story so bang! here we are

----------


## Ansa

> This turned out to be a trick cover but Dc must have really wanted to do this story so bang! here we are


The trick cover was a more interesting story than what was in the actual issue, I will give them that.
But do they really have to brainwash Dick two times in a row?

Well...hopefully it will make for some good angst material if nothing else. Even though at this point I think a lot of the bat characters are in need of some rebuilding, not more angst.

----------


## dietrich

> The trick cover was a more interesting story than what was in the actual issue, I will give them that.
> But do they really have to brainwash Dick two times in a row?
> 
> Well...hopefully it will make for some good angst material if nothing else. Even though at this point I think a lot of the bat characters are in need of some rebuilding, not more angst.


Na Gotham needs rebuilding. The family needs more angst since that's the only story these writers know. I thought that once they changed the Editors for the bat office that thing's will improve but seems I was wrong.

----------


## Ansa

> Na Gotham needs rebuilding. The family needs more angst since that's the only story these writers know. I thought that once they changed the Editors for the bat office that thing's will improve but seems I was wrong.


On the plus side: In some shape or form the characters are interacting again. Better than what we got under King where the batfamily simply didn't matter and everyone almost pretended the others didn't exist.
The solicitation for Batman 96/97 do hint at Bruce having to reflect on the rifts he created in his life, so maybe that's just the writers way of setting up a reunion.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Na Gotham needs rebuilding. The family needs more angst since that's the only story these writers know. I thought that once they changed the Editors for the bat office that thing's will improve but seems I was wrong.


There's already a new one?
The last change I know was when King wanted David Finch and... Doyle was it?... out.

----------


## dietrich

> There's already a new one?
> The last change I know was when King wanted David Finch and... Doyle was it?... out.


Yes Ben Abernanthy [Tom Taylor professional partner] recently took over as the Bat Office editor

----------


## Ansa

Link to the Robin 80th Anniversary Special preview:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.syf...-special%3famp

----------


## dietrich

> Link to the Robin 80th Anniversary Special preview:
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.syf...-special%3famp


Damian isn't the coolest Robin. He's the the only Cool Robin. Dick and Jason got Cool after they gave up the scaly leotard and pixie boots

----------


## Jackalope89

> Damian isn't the coolest Robin. He's the the only Cool Robin. Dick and Jason got Cool after they gave up the scaly leotard and pixie boots


To be fair to Jason, he had to deal with a writer that hated the mere concept of Robin so much, he wanted to kill Jason off with AIDS.

----------


## dietrich

> To be fair to Jason, he had to deal with a writer that hated the mere concept of Robin so much, he wanted to kill Jason off with AIDS.


Oh yeah for sure and don't get me wrong I liked Jason's stories and adventures as Robin but what I meant is that until Damian I always thought Robin was lame sight on seeing. They were brightly coloured, had what I thought were pants or green tights.

and the fought with catapults or sticks. They were just not the hero a young boy wanted to be. Robin just never looked cool till the hoodie,black pants and what looked like knee Doc Martins.

Also the change in times makes other Robins feel dated. Even Tim feels dated when I was Reading the Robin solo

Jason is cool as Red Hood and easier to get into.

----------


## dietrich

https://twitter.com/DESAWORKS

----------


## Frontier

> Link to the Robin 80th Anniversary Special preview:
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.syf...-special%3famp


The Super Sons adventures that never were...

----------


## Rac7d*

> The Super Sons adventures that never were...


Dc letting good things get away

----------


## dietrich

Those panels by Everson Lyrio of the Supersons with the Rebirth TT might actually be for DC Kids.


DC is completely useless if that is true and thank god WB and AT&T have stepped in. What the hell is the point of having them as a gateway but cancelling them in the main comics? So that the newly attracted customers get to experience the disappointment that veteran comic readers know so well?

Absolute Rubbish.

----------


## Katana500

> Those panels by Everson Lyrio of the Supersons with the Rebirth TT might actually be for DC Kids.
> 
> 
> DC is completely useless if that is true and thank god WB and AT&T have stepped in. What the hell is the point of having them as a gateway but cancelling them in the main comics? So that the newly attracted customers get to experience the disappointment that veteran comic readers know so well?
> 
> Absolute Rubbish.


Which panels is it?

----------


## dietrich

> Which panels is it?


You can see them here

https://www.instagram.com/p/B8CFcaJADxs/

Fyi the idea that it was for Dc Kids was from Reddit and the artist on twitter said it was something he was working on but didn't elaborate

----------


## Fergus

> Link to the Robin 80th Anniversary Special preview:
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.syf...-special%3famp


Good to see the Supersons back in action again. Wish we had some previews of the others rather than focus on Damian. Also interesting that in this Robin Special we hear from Superboy not Robin. Hope this isn't indicative of what's to come.

----------


## Katana500

> You can see them here
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/B8CFcaJADxs/
> 
> Fyi the idea that it was for Dc Kids was from Reddit and the artist on twitter said it was something he was working on but didn't elaborate


cheers pal!

----------


## Blue22

> Good to see the Supersons back in action again. Wish we had some previews of the others rather than focus on Damian. Also interesting that in this Robin Special we hear from Superboy not Robin. Hope this isn't indicative of what's to come.


Considering it's him talking about how awesome Damian is, I'd say it's fine.




> 


I've said it before and I'll say it again. Damian's costume always looks SO much better without the cape.

----------


## Fergus

> Considering it's him talking about how awesome Damian is, I'd say it's fine.


It's not fine when you have Damian imprisoning and mind wiping people.

It's not fine when Damian is about to be the 1st Robin in 80yrs to be fired.

It's not fine when Damian we already know is going to become hitler and so bad that he is shunted out of the future like a leper.

What would have been fine is a story set in the now that shows Damian being a credit to not shaming the concept of Robin

----------


## dietrich

> It's not fine when you have Damian imprisoning and mind wiping people.
> 
> It's not fine when Damian is about to be the 1st Robin in 80yrs to be fired.
> 
> It's not fine when Damian we already know is going to become hitler and so bad that he is shunted out of the future like a leper.
> 
> What would have been fine is a story set in the now that shows Damian being a credit to not shaming the concept of Robin


Quoted for truth

----------


## Blue22

> It's not fine when you have Damian imprisoning and mind wiping people.
> 
> It's not fine when Damian is about to be the 1st Robin in 80yrs to be fired.
> 
> It's not fine when Damian we already know is going to become hitler and so bad that he is shunted out of the future like a leper.
> 
> What would have been fine is a story set in the now that shows Damian being a credit to not shaming the concept of Robin


See, that's exactly why it's fine with me. When it currently feels like the entire universe is trying to make Damian out to be some kind of monster, I appreciate seeing him in a light hearted story with someone who talks about how great he is and can remind readers of his good qualities. Whether it's Jon, Maya, or maybe even some of his fellow Titans, I just like seeing someone uplift him for what feels like the first time in a long time. That's how I feel about the whole thing, anyway.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Link to the Robin 80th Anniversary Special preview:
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.syf...-special%3famp


Jon's drawn taller than usual, that's not their usual uniforms, and they're in a class taking a test together. Is that 17 years old Jon? Are they in high school? Together? This is an Elseworld where they are the same age but have the same back story? Please say yes because this is everything

----------


## redmax99

> It's not fine when you have Damian imprisoning and mind wiping people.
> 
> It's not fine when Damian is about to be the 1st Robin in 80yrs to be fired.
> 
> It's not fine when Damian we already know is going to become hitler and so bad that he is shunted out of the future like a leper.
> 
> What would have been fine is a story set in the now that shows Damian being a credit to not shaming the concept of Robin


he's the  second robin to be fired stephanie the first.

----------


## Blue22

> Jon's drawn taller than usual, that's not their usual uniforms, and they're in a class taking a test together. Is that 17 years old Jon? Are they in high school? Together? This is an Elseworld where they are the same age but have the same back story? Please say yes because this is everything


He does look a bit older but I attribute that to the glasses and the suit. That's *definitely* not 17 year old Jon. Jon did have a bit of a growth spurt right before Jor-El came and ruined his life.  Maybe this takes place around that time.

As for him and Damian being in the same class...that actually is kinda weird. Damian would probably be in his first year of high school right now. Likewise, Jon would likely be just starting middle school.

----------


## Drako

Batman Beyond Damian looks cool as hell.

ATMAN BEYOND #45
written by DAN JURGENS
art by SEAN CHEN
cover by DAN MORA
variant cover by FRANCIS MANAPUL
Batman Beyond and Damian Wayne are going to have to join forces in order to stop Mr. Zero and his radical faction from turning Gotham City into an ice-covered hellscape. Damian will have to put his disrespect for the “pretender” that is Batman Beyond aside if they’re going to stop this mutual foe—and even then Mr. Zero’s power and influence might prove too much for this pair!

----------


## Digifiend

> he's the  second robin to be fired stephanie the first.


April's annual cover lied to us. He's keeping the R.


TEEN TITANS #43
written by ROBBIE THOMPSON
art by EDUARDO PANSICA
cover by BERNARD CHANG
variant cover by KHARY RANDOLPH
Robin begins a hunt that leads him to the KGBeast, the same assassin who wounded and nearly killed the first Robin, Dick Grayson. Will Damian Wayne cross the line to enact brutal revenge on the Russian villain—or can the Teen Titans temper the current Robin’s rage?
ON SALE 06.17.20
$3.99 US | 32 PAGES
FC | DC

----------


## Godlike13

> Batman Beyond Damian looks cool as hell.
> 
> ATMAN BEYOND #45
> written by DAN JURGENS
> art by SEAN CHEN
> cover by DAN MORA
> variant cover by FRANCIS MANAPUL
> Batman Beyond and Damian Wayne are going to have to join forces in order to stop Mr. Zero and his radical faction from turning Gotham City into an ice-covered hellscape. Damian will have to put his disrespect for the “pretender” that is Batman Beyond aside if they’re going to stop this mutual foe—and even then Mr. Zero’s power and influence might prove too much for this pair!


I still like that helmet he wore at first.

----------


## Jackalope89

> April's annual cover lied to us. He's keeping the R.
> 
> 
> TEEN TITANS #43
> written by ROBBIE THOMPSON
> art by EDUARDO PANSICA
> cover by BERNARD CHANG
> variant cover by KHARY RANDOLPH
> Robin begins a hunt that leads him to the KGBeast, the same assassin who wounded and nearly killed the first Robin, Dick Grayson. Will Damian Wayne cross the line to enact brutal revenge on the Russian villain—or can the Teen Titans temper the current Robin’s rage?
> ...


Not saying Damian wouldn't be justified in doing some damage to KG Beast, but didn't Bruce leave him crippled in a cabin after he shot Dick?

----------


## Ansa

> Not saying Damian wouldn't be justified in doing some damage to KG Beast, but didn't Bruce leave him crippled in a cabin after he shot Dick?


And wasn't that ages ago? When does Teen Titans take place?

----------


## Rac7d*

> It's not fine when you have Damian imprisoning and mind wiping people.
> 
> It's not fine when Damian is about to be the 1st Robin in 80yrs to be fired.
> 
> It's not fine when Damian we already know is going to become hitler and so bad that he is shunted out of the future like a leper.
> 
> What would have been fine is a story set in the now that shows Damian being a credit to not shaming the concept of Robin


Like father like son

Dick was fired from being Robin

----------


## Blue22

> April's annual cover lied to us. He's keeping the R.
> 
> 
> TEEN TITANS #43
> written by ROBBIE THOMPSON
> art by EDUARDO PANSICA
> cover by BERNARD CHANG
> variant cover by KHARY RANDOLPH
> Robin begins a hunt that leads him to the KGBeast, the same assassin who wounded and nearly killed the first Robin, Dick Grayson. Will Damian Wayne cross the line to enact brutal revenge on the Russian villain—or can the Teen Titans temper the current Robin’s rage?
> ...


Well that's a relief. But it looks like they're trading one bad fakeout for another. We know good and damn well he's not gonna kill KGBeast.

Also, it looks like Djinn's still around.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Not saying Damian wouldn't be justified in doing some damage to KG Beast, but didn't Bruce leave him crippled in a cabin after he shot Dick?


Yeah, he recovered, because recently, I don't know how recent but it was in some solicitations ago, Babsgirl went after him to avenge Dick, and this time it's Damian's turn.

----------


## shadow6743

Wow Damian still Robin I can't believe it. Its almost like it's a Teen Titans trope started with Dick Grayson. Called this months ago characters leave and come back to the Titans all the time.

----------


## dietrich

> April's annual cover lied to us. He's keeping the R.
> 
> 
> TEEN TITANS #43
> written by ROBBIE THOMPSON
> art by EDUARDO PANSICA
> cover by BERNARD CHANG
> variant cover by KHARY RANDOLPH
> Robin begins a hunt that leads him to the KGBeast, the same assassin who wounded and nearly killed the first Robin, Dick Grayson. Will Damian Wayne cross the line to enact brutal revenge on the Russian villain—or can the Teen Titans temper the current Robin’s rage?
> ...


First I'm so glad that Damian is staying robin I was really worried and irked that he might be fired.

Second this story is exactly what I need. Finally someone outside of Nightwing remembers what Dick Grayson means to Damian.
I'm so happy for this story. While I don't want Damian crossing the line I really i'm glad to see someone else besides Bruce lose it because of what happened to Nightwing.

Edit
Missed that Babs also went after KGB and is this set in the past?

----------


## dietrich

> See, that's exactly why it's fine with me. When it currently feels like the entire universe is trying to make Damian out to be some kind of monster, I appreciate seeing him in a light hearted story with someone who talks about how great he is and can remind readers of his good qualities. Whether it's Jon, Maya, or maybe even some of his fellow Titans, I just like seeing someone uplift him for what feels like the first time in a long time. That's how I feel about the whole thing, anyway.


I've seen quite a few people trying to say that the Supersons relationship is abusive on twitter so I guess it's good getting Jon's perspective of the relationship.

Also Damian has a batman pencil case. I wonder if he bought it or did Bruce take his love of putting his hero ID on everything a bit too far  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Blue22

> I've seen quite a few people trying to say that the Supersons relationship is abusive on twitter so I guess it's good getting Jon's perspective of the relationship.


....Seriously? They're probably the same bullshitters who straight up attack people for fan-casting white kids as Damian (or, in one case, attacking the kid for fan casting himself). They don't deserve any of the attention they're clearly crying for -____-

----------


## Smilingblade

> Batman Beyond Damian looks cool as hell.
> 
> ATMAN BEYOND #45
> written by DAN JURGENS
> art by SEAN CHEN
> cover by DAN MORA
> variant cover by FRANCIS MANAPUL
> Batman Beyond and Damian Wayne are going to have to join forces in order to stop Mr. Zero and his radical faction from turning Gotham City into an ice-covered hellscape. Damian will have to put his disrespect for the pretender that is Batman Beyond aside if theyre going to stop this mutual foeand even then Mr. Zeros power and influence might prove too much for this pair!


I feel like Damian and Terry could have a similar rivalry to Vegeta and Goku, and I'm completely here for that kind of story!

----------


## Blue22

> I feel like Damian and Terry could have a similar rivalry to Vegeta and Goku, and I'm completely here for that kind of story!


Funny. I was thinking more along the lines of Deku and Sir Night Eye lol

----------


## Korath

I won't lie, I'd love for Damian to become closer to his BB version than any of his Batman's. Ra's regal appearance suits him better, IMHO.

----------


## Blue22

Same, honestly. Though I've always hated his Batman suits so I'm a little biased xD

----------


## dietrich

https://twitter.com/LStrikesArt







https://twitter.com/JYEONG_JYEONG

----------


## Digifiend

Any reason you posted that image twice? :Confused: 

Preview for Teen Titans #40
https://www.adventuresinpoortaste.co...een-titans-40/
Like father, like son...

----------


## Jackalope89

> Any reason you posted that image twice?
> 
> Preview for Teen Titans #40
> https://www.adventuresinpoortaste.co...een-titans-40/
> Like father, like son...


Roundhouse- Dick.
Robin- You are aware of my brother's identity!?

----------


## Katana500

> Any reason you posted that image twice?
> 
> Preview for Teen Titans #40
> https://www.adventuresinpoortaste.co...een-titans-40/
> Like father, like son...


Roundhouse has really grown on me. I like every member of the team now. I hope they continue to stick around. I feel like just as the team starts getting close its gonna end with 5g.

----------


## dietrich

> Any reason you posted that image twice?
> 
> Preview for Teen Titans #40
> https://www.adventuresinpoortaste.co...een-titans-40/
> Like father, like son...


The images aren't the same.


Like father like son indeed.

"Talking about No Powers Damian...."

Also how are we not talking about how great it is to have Jakeem on here? Last I saw him was in Multiversity.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Roundhouse has really grown on me. I like every member of the team now. I hope they continue to stick around. I feel like just as the team starts getting close its gonna end with 5g.


I like this team and hope they stick around as well.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Any reason you posted that image twice?
> 
> Preview for Teen Titans #40
> https://www.adventuresinpoortaste.co...een-titans-40/
> Like father, like son...


I love KF's response to RH here. It's heroic yet realistic. 
It takes a lot to put ones life on the line to save others. 
Is this the trip where one of them doesn't make it back? If it is could it be foreshadowing? The guy who didn't want to go ends up not making it back.

----------


## Katana500

> I love KF's response to RH here. It's heroic yet realistic. 
> It takes a lot to put ones life on the line to save others. 
> Is this the trip where one of them doesn't make it back? If it is could it be foreshadowing? The guy who didn't want to go ends up not making it back.


Roundhouse not making it back certainly could be possible. I have a feeling he will somehow meet his dead sister in purgatory. Or Elias will somehow use her to try manipulate him.

Though he does appear on all the future covers. I guess covers can lie though!

----------


## CPSparkles

> The images aren't the same.
> 
> 
> *Like father like son indeed.
> 
> "Talking about No Powers Damian....*"
> 
> Also how are we not talking about how great it is to have Jakeem on here? Last I saw him was in Multiversity.


Stopping hearts
Secret Jails
etc
Damian operates under the assumption that he has Powers. Batman Bruce Powers. He doesn't which is why when he tries to Bruce Wayne he doesn't always work  :Cool:

----------


## CPSparkles

> Roundhouse not making it back certainly could be possible. I have a feeling he will somehow meet his dead sister in purgatory. Or Elias will somehow use her to try manipulate him.
> 
> Though he does appear on all the future covers. I guess covers can lie though!


His hesitation feels like foreshadowing or setup for something happening. RH has risked his life many times in this run without hesitation so he's reaction here feels a little off.

Maybe I'm used to experienced heroes who this kind of thing is just their normal.
The Batkids joke about how many times they've died at Bat Burger. Damian has died twice.

Heck he once said that Death is a grey area So i can see why newbies like RH wouldn't be so casual about trips to Hell

RH in my opinion is better for team dynamics and banter than say Emi so I hope he doesn't get left behind.

----------


## Jackalope89

> His hesitation feels like foreshadowing or setup for something happening. RH has risked his life many times in this run without hesitation so he's reaction here feels a little off.
> 
> Maybe I'm used to experienced heroes who this kind of thing is just their normal.
> The Batkids joke about how many times they've died at Bat Burger. Damian has died twice.
> 
> Heck he once said that Death is a grey area So i can see why newbies like RH wouldn't be so casual about trips to Hell


I also wonder how much of Crush's biology is at play too. Well, the Czarnian half at least, considering what it takes for Lobo to go down (for awhile) and all.

----------


## CPSparkles

> April's annual cover lied to us. He's keeping the R.
> 
> 
> TEEN TITANS #43
> written by ROBBIE THOMPSON
> art by EDUARDO PANSICA
> cover by BERNARD CHANG
> variant cover by KHARY RANDOLPH
> Robin begins a hunt that leads him to the KGBeast, the same assassin who wounded and nearly killed the first Robin, Dick Grayson. Will Damian Wayne cross the line to enact brutal revenge on the Russian villainor can the Teen Titans temper the current Robins rage?
> ...


Didn't notice this Cover. Yep he's here. They are all here so I'm guessing this is set in the past?

----------


## CPSparkles

> I also wonder how much of Crush's biology is at play too. Well, the Czarnian half at least, considering what it takes for Lobo to go down (for awhile) and all.


Yeah you are right. Crush shouldn't have gone down at the same time as the others should she? I'm not sure about KF but Crush shouldn't be passing out as quick as Damian

----------


## Katana500

> Yeah you are right. Crush shouldn't have gone down at the same time as the others should she? I'm not sure about KF but Crush shouldn't be passing out as quick as Damian


Crush's poison might be even stronger to account for her biology. I doubt Damian would give her a human dosage.

----------


## adrikito

> april's annual cover lied to us. He's keeping the r.
> 
> 
> teen titans #43
> written by robbie thompson
> art by eduardo pansica
> cover by bernard chang
> variant cover by khary randolph
> robin begins a hunt that leads him to the kgbeast, the same assassin who wounded and nearly killed the first robin, dick grayson. Will damian wayne cross the line to enact brutal revenge on the russian villain—or can the teen titans temper the current robin’s rage?
> ...


watching how he ruined nightwing I am not surprised that damian is angry with him.




> Batman Beyond Damian looks cool as hell.
> 
> ATMAN BEYOND #45
> written by DAN JURGENS
> art by SEAN CHEN
> cover by DAN MORA
> variant cover by FRANCIS MANAPUL
> Batman Beyond and Damian Wayne are going to have to join forces in order to stop Mr. Zero and his radical faction from turning Gotham City into an ice-covered hellscape. Damian will have to put his disrespect for the “pretender” that is Batman Beyond aside if they’re going to stop this mutual foe—and even then Mr. Zero’s power and influence might prove too much for this pair!


Happy to see Damian Beyong again in this arc

----------


## Ansa

> April's annual cover lied to us. He's keeping the R.
> 
> 
> TEEN TITANS #43
> written by ROBBIE THOMPSON
> art by EDUARDO PANSICA
> cover by BERNARD CHANG
> variant cover by KHARY RANDOLPH
> Robin begins a hunt that leads him to the KGBeast, the same assassin who wounded and nearly killed the first Robin, Dick Grayson. Will Damian Wayne cross the line to enact brutal revenge on the Russian villainÂ—or can the Teen Titans temper the current RobinÂ’s rage?
> ...


I don't mind Damian finally having a reaction to the Ric situation in his own book, but I think the timing is weird. Dick got shot in September 2018 and this issue comes out in June 2020. It's a bit late for this story.

Bruce already went after Kgbeast right after it happened, broke his neck and left him on his own in the cold:
20200315_111726.jpg

20200315_111756.jpg

Damian had this conversation with Bruce in the last Nightwing Annual:

20200315_113055.jpg

Which means this took place after Bruce broke his neck. I didn't read Damian's question as a serious one.

Barbara is going after Kgbeast in April:
After a catfight with Catwoman last issue, Batgirl thinks Selina is right about these statues…Could they be made from…actual living Gothamites? But when her investigation leads her to the KGBeast and he tells how he was involved in Nightwing being shot, all bets are off, and Batgirl is faced with doing the right thing or doing what is right for someone she loves.

Sounds a bit like Barbara didn't know that Kgbeast shot Dick...which doesn't make a lot of sense. Maybe he just taunts her and that's why she suddenly reacts? It mentions Catwoman and she was gone when Dick got shot so it should be after City of Bane, so it's not set in the past right after the shot.

And now Damian is going after Kgbeast in June...
If it's set in the past right after the shot that would mean that a) Kgbeast's neck should be broken (what an epic fight: Damian vs guy in a hospital bed) and b) we know 100% that Damian won't kill him because he's alive in Barbara's book after City of Bane, which kinda destroys the hook of the story (also: I am so damn tired of the "will Damian kill his foe" story. Didn't we just have that with the Deathstroke arc, why are we doing this again?)
If this issue takes place in the present it means that Damian didn't leave the Robin mantle and got angry enough about Kgbeast shooting Dick that he had to go hunt for him long after the whole thing was over...which is also weird.

Maybe I'm missing something, but the solicitation for this issue confuses me.

----------


## Restingvoice

> I don't mind Damian finally having a reaction to the Ric situation in his own book, but I think the timing is weird. Dick got shot in September 2018 and this issue comes out in June 2020. It's a bit late for this story.
> 
> Bruce already went after Kgbeast right after it happened, broke his neck and left him on his own in the cold:
> 20200315_111726.jpg
> 
> 20200315_111756.jpg
> 
> Damian had this conversation with Bruce in the last Nightwing Annual:
> 
> ...


Solicitations can be wrong, and authors can be wrong, but Damian may heard he recovered and decided to go after him after having a fight with Bruce. Did Babs know?

----------


## CPSparkles

> RSob was basically replaced by Super Sons, and the second incarnation of that book had iirc also not pretty low sales numbers in the end.
> 
> Comparison with RHatO is also a little tricky since Damian never really had a long lasting ongoing.


If I recall RSOB had good enough sales for a character that many disliked and replaced as sidekick. He was missing from the Batbooks after he returned and in the main title b4 he was killed.
It managed to do similar to the RR solo which was fronted by a well established and beloved character. That's not bad. DC could have given it a bit more time. The sales dropped when Gleason went off sick but who knows what might have happened once he returned as writer.

The 1st super sons series was cancelled while it was still out performing more than 70% of DC's titles [even if that was still less than 30k] The second one I can't speak for others but personally as soon as Jon was aged up and the stories were set in the past my excitement was gone. There were no stakes. That might have affected sales but don't know. Aging Jon, breaking them up and setting adventures in the past killed the relationship which I was invested in following. 

Damian son of Batman also did alright somehow.

You are correct that we can't compare only speculate since Damian hasn't had a long running series which is a shame cos I think he'd benefit from one and he's shown he can deliver enough numbers to a least justify DC investing resources in a Robin solo.

Much better than cancellation due to back office and Robin being everywhere but you never know what what you gonna get or how he's going to plot deviced.

I'm just done with Damian does extreme stuff because .. none given.

My point is consistency [a single title where fans know they can find him regularly and development under a dedicated writer] would have made a world of difference to RSOB and Supersons title sales.
Especially for a character that was still establishing a base and his position. If Gleason had been allowed to finish his series [we only got chapter 1 b4 it was cancelled for supersons] up to now I believe the sales would be very healthy . A bunch of fans really disliked Percy's TT's and the current run.

----------


## Ansa

> Solicitations can be wrong, and authors can be wrong, but Damian may heard he recovered and decided to go after him after having a fight with Bruce. Did Babs know?


Barbara was in the hospital when Dick woke up and Bruce didn't keep it a secret from Damian, I don't see why Bruce should have kept it from her.

Yeah I know, covers and solicitations can be wrong. That's why I said the solicitation confuses me.

I also had the thought that Damian might want to go after Kgbeast after having his fight with Bruce, but I still think this story would be redundant if that's the case. We already got "I had a falling out with Batman and now I'm not going to follow his rules anymore and do what I want" when Glass took over mid 2018, I don't want to read this again in the same book.

----------


## Ansa

I'm also not a fan of the "Damian always needs other people to stop him from killing" take, can he please grow past that, it's getting old.

----------


## CPSparkles

> You might be right, Damian had his screen time in titles. And technically you could argue that his presence in batbooks is on the level as the rest of batfamily. So, as you said, their *professional*  relationship as Batman and Robin is there.
> 
> Put personally, I take the issue not that its lacking B&R action, but *interaction* between characters. He is Bruces 13 years old son with issues, and most people here argue for negligence from Bruce as a parent, not as hero mentor. All genuine interactions between them that I could remember came from supersons after rebirth. After that, its kinda empty. Maybe you could scratch something after supersons were canceled, from other books that Im unaware of, but it very little in comparison to Clark and Jon.
> 
> Im not saying that sole focus of batbooks now should be on Bruce and Damian. But his existence should have larger impact on Bruces life and should be at least referenced, but it seems people in charge of batbooks like to pretend that Bruce is still in his eligible bachelor status quo. Thats where argument of negligence comes from. And thats the problem with comics now - its going in circles, where even major changes are reverted back with time.
> 
> But again, thats my perception of the situation.


Since the Tomasi's New 52 B&R ended at the start of the new52 Damian has had less time in Bat books than most of the family outside of Jason, Harper and Maybe Duke.

He was gone most of Synder's Run
Most of King's
Was in 5 Rebirth Tec/post Tec story arc's 
Was in the last few issues of BRE
Alfred Rip
the wedding preludes.

I think that's the Main in continuity Bat books since new 52 [didn't count All Star because that was different]

----------


## CPSparkles

> I'm also not a fan of the "Damian always needs other people to stop him from killing" take, can he please grow past that, it's getting old.


He already. Years ago. TT's just seems hell bent on giving us this Hey did you know I'm Gives no F**ks Robin? Look at me doings things that Robins don't usually do. I'm a renegade and I play by my own rules not Batman's.

Then processed to do the exact same things we just read Batman do a few weeks ago [tries to at least]. Only he isn't Batman so he just ends up beaten to pulp, grounded and yelled at.

Lol  Glass likes edge.

----------


## Digifiend

You need to reread that solicit. Glass leaves Teen Titans next month, Thompson is writing it now.

----------


## Ansa

> He already. Years ago. TT's just seems hell bent on giving us this Hey did you know I'm Gives no F**ks Robin? Look at me doings things that Robins don't usually do. I'm a renegade and I play by my own rules not Batman's.
> 
> Then processed to do the exact same things we just read Batman do a few weeks ago [tries to at least]. Only he isn't Batman so he just ends up beaten to pulp, grounded and yelled at.
> 
> Lol  Glass likes edge.


I agree 100%.
For a story whose whole premise was "I won't follow Batman's strict moral code anymore" to work you would need a Batman that actually has a strict moral code, which modern Bruce doesn't have.
His enemies just don't die from (possibly lethal) attacks like breaking someone's neck, throwing someone off a building and throwing their jet pack after them or letting them get hit by moving trucks not even because Bruce is more skilled, but because Batman isn't allowed to kill thus his enemies simply don't die. Damian is a former assassin and therefore tainted, he is allowed to fail.

The only big difference between what Damian does and what Bruce does is how it's framed and bias.
Actually modern Bruce should be proud, Damian is following his code and his methods to a t. A perfect pupil.

----------


## Ansa

> You need to reread that solicit. Glass leaves Teen Titans next month, Thompson is writing it now.


We know Glass is leaving, but from the solicits alone it sounds like Thompson might do the same premise with the same team we got since Glass took over mid 2018.

----------


## Jackalope89

> You need to reread that solicit. Glass leaves Teen Titans next month, Thompson is writing it now.


Well, it does raise the question of what Thompson will do with the current cast. Damian, Emiko, and Wallace all are at least connected with bigger named heroes/families. Crush, Roundhouse, and Djinn, not so much.

----------


## CPSparkles

> You need to reread that solicit. Glass leaves Teen Titans next month, Thompson is writing it now.


I know however if you reread my comment you'll note that all of that happened while Glass was the solo writer. Months b4 it was announced that Thompson was to join Glass. 
Shortly following this TT team's 1st mission.

----------


## CPSparkles

Dick and Damian's books for the 17th of 06 have both characters in repeat storylines.

DC clearly showing the love.

It's crazy. 
Dick,Jason,Tim,Steph, Damian. All the Robins currently have creative teams that just seem to be doing the bare minimum. Aside from Lobdell

stories or directions that are lack lustre or out right hated by fans. Ric and Drake: fans have been very vocal about both. Damian extreme Robin has been extremely divisive and off putting.
DC is just forging ahead with these dubious, dull and widely disliked portrayals rather than listening to fans or just opting for the always popular portrayals of Cool Heroes doing cool hero stuff in cool costumes and everyone of them remembers their names and who they are.

That's all. That literally solves Dick, Damian and Drake.

Jason and Steph don't need solving but they need adjustments. Steph is Tim's GF rather than Spoiler and Jason just got his team back not sure if it's a temp situation. It  shouldn't and he needs to remember his name and who he is because I have no idea.

Hero, Anti Hero or a Villain [because DC doesn't know it's characters] The Bat who's likely to and willing to f**k you shit up like Batman can't/is unable to a business owner or mentor/ daddy day care for very naughty kids? 

I don't know.

Anyway Happy 80th Birthday to Robins [especially the Original Robin Dick Grayson] Robin is Iconic and everyone of the characters who's worn the R brought something special to the lore. I just wish DC and creators would do more with these great characters. 

Rant Over. Not edited so I'm sure it's full of typos.

----------


## Astralabius

Not gonna lie, I just want to read a book where I don't have the feeling that Damian is one of the antagonists.

I know comics are cyclical in nature, but I prefer character growth over character deconstruction. I'm tired of deconstructed characters doing awful things and then doing the same thing in every arc with no progression. 

With Damian I think there have to be more aspects of the character that can be explored, but somehow it always ends up at will Damian kill the antagonist or still follow Bruce's no kill rule/will Damian turn out like Bruce or like Ra's? Which would be fine as a struggle at the core of the character if we got more diversity in Damian's main struggles.

Unless a writer gets creative there are only two outcomes: Damian kills his enemy and years of character developement are gone or you have him spare his opponent and we get the same answer we've seen over and over again to a question we are tired of.

I want new questions to be asked and I want to see Damian grow. Some people here might disagree, but I don't get that from the current Teen Titans run. I don't think this run has done Damian any good.

----------


## Sergard

> Dick and Damian's books for the 17th of 06 have both characters in repeat storylines.
> 
> DC clearly showing the love.
> 
> It's crazy. 
> Dick,Jason,Tim,Steph, Damian. All the Robins currently have creative teams that just seem to be doing the bare minimum. Aside from Lobdell
> 
> stories or directions that are lack lustre or out right hated by fans. Ric and Drake: fans have been very vocal about both. Damian extreme Robin has been extremely divisive and off putting.
> DC is just forging ahead with these dubious, dull and widely disliked portrayals rather than listening to fans or just opting for the always popular portrayals of Cool Heroes doing cool hero stuff in cool costumes and everyone of them remembers their names and who they are.
> ...


The only adjustment Jason needs is him leaving this toxic family behind.  :Mad: 
Jason has been their whipping boy/punching bag/fall guy long enough.  :Mad: 
When Jason hurts someone he gets punished. When someone hurts Jason - everyone goes on like nothing happened.
Jason was there for the family when they needed help and kept his distance otherwise because he knows his place in the "family hierarchy" (down at the bottom.)
But the one time, when Jason needs support because he has literally lost everything - teammates gone, home destroyed, best friend dead, exiled, isolated and depressed with a DEATH WISH, no family and no support - where are all these great "heroes" of the batfamily? What are they doing? Apart from Batwoman they either don't give a f*ck or even push Jason further down by using him as a fall guy in the TT Annual or Event Leviathan because they have no idea who the real bad guy is.
I'm sick of this "family". I'm sick of those "heroes".  :Mad: 

Jason KNOWS his name. He's Jason Todd, member of the Outlaws family - a group of people who actually behave like a family.
They don't blame him for his own death!
They don't make fun of his torture and death!
They don't put a crowbar in Jason's bed!
They don't exploit his trauma!
They don't ignore his trauma!
They don't hurt him because they want to hurt him!
They don't steal from him!
They don't try to humiliate him!
They don't threaten to blow him up with a bomb!
They don't antagonize him!
They don't attack him for something he didn't do!
They don't threaten to throw him in prison if he doesn't confess for something he didn't do!
They don't try to keep him away from his grandfather's funeral!

And THAT's my RANT!
Rant over.

----------


## CPSparkles

> The only adjustment Jason needs is him leaving this toxic family behind. 
> Jason has been their whipping boy/punching bag/fall guy long enough. 
> When Jason hurts someone he gets punished. When someone hurts Jason - everyone goes on like nothing happened.
> Jason was there for the family when they needed help and kept his distance otherwise because he knows his place in the "family hierarchy" (down at the bottom.)
> But the one time, when Jason needs support because he has literally lost everything - teammates gone, home destroyed, best friend dead, exiled, isolated and depressed with a DEATH WISH, no family and no support - where are all these great "heroes" of the batfamily? What are they doing? Apart from Batwoman they either don't give a f*ck or even push Jason further down by using him as a fall guy in the TT Annual or Event Leviathan because they have no idea who the real bad guy is.
> I'm sick of this "family". I'm sick of those "heroes". 
> 
> Jason KNOWS his name. He's Jason Todd, member of the Outlaws family - a group of people who actually behave like a family.
> They don't blame him for his own death!
> ...


Yep The Bat family is very Toxic so it's great that Jason has a team that also functions as a healthy supportive family unit but that still doesn't fix the issue of me reading his title and still being confused about what he is. 

Appearances in other DC books, the way characters mainly the general Hero Society view him [Anti Hero, Hero, villain] and the role DC and Creative's like to have he play don't help either since most of these don't match how Jason is shown in RHato.

You might not agree but this lack of clear defined alignment is the reason for a lot of the points in your Rant.

TT - A guy who is fine with threatening to kill kids that had nothing to do with the beef he was having with Damain and a Guy who's cool with secret Prisons {that one I know Jason had Penguin in a cell but that was a cell in the Bar and I know Batman has jails in the Cave and under the JL HQ's but still]


Leviathan A Villain suspect and heroes who should know him bought Damian's paper thing argument [Never mind that he has links to the OG Leviathan and that Dick has the Spy connections and was also going through trauma]

Until DC and his writer define what his alignment/role whatever is then those fall guy/ punching bag type stories will continue.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Yep The Bat family is very Toxic so it's great that Jason has a team that also functions as a healthy supportive family unit but that still doesn't fix the issue of me reading his title and still being confused about what he is. 
> 
> Appearances in other DC books, the way characters mainly the general Hero Society view him [Anti Hero, Hero, villain] and the role DC and Creative's like to have he play don't help either since most of these don't match how Jason is shown in RHato.
> 
> You might not agree but this lack of clear defined alignment is the reason for a lot of the points in your Rant.
> 
> TT - A guy who is fine with threatening to kill kids that had nothing to do with the beef he was having with Damain and a Guy who's cool with secret Prisons {that one I know Jason had Penguin in a cell but that was a cell in the Bar and I know Batman has jails in the Cave and under the JL HQ's but still]
> 
> 
> ...


For Penguin; Cobblepot actually locked himself in that room initially. Jason just ended up keeping him there for awhile.

----------


## CPSparkles

> For Penguin; Cobblepot actually locked himself in that room initially. Jason just ended up keeping him there for awhile.


 Oh yeah i forgot that part. I don't think it's anywhere comparable to Bruce and Damian's set up's which is why I specified that it was a Bar cell so it's just a drying out lockup that most Bars have.

----------


## dietrich

Robin Special. Damian's stories sound really promising

----------


## dietrich

> *Dick and Damian's books for the 17th of 06 have both characters in repeat storylines.
> *
> DC clearly showing the love.
> 
> It's crazy. 
> Dick,Jason,Tim,Steph, Damian. All the Robins currently have creative teams that just seem to be doing the bare minimum. Aside from Lobdell
> 
> stories or directions that are lack lustre or out right hated by fans. Ric and Drake: fans have been very vocal about both. Damian extreme Robin has been extremely divisive and off putting.
> DC is just forging ahead with these dubious, dull and widely disliked portrayals rather than listening to fans or just opting for the always popular portrayals of Cool Heroes doing cool hero stuff in cool costumes and everyone of them remembers their names and who they are.
> ...



This is tragic and so funny.
Well Damian did say he wanted to follow in Grayson's footsteps and likes to take inspiration from him. Remember his Batsuit has the Discowing High Collar? So more trying to be like Nightwing.

----------


## dietrich

https://twitter.com/langbuliang


We need more Bat Family being family and showing they care. 
Bruce and Damian: new52 Batman The Dark Knight #14

----------


## AmiMizuno

That's cute. But it makes you wonder why is Damian more worried about Dick than Bruce having a kid? Is it because Damian not being there in the beginning. Also how different would the story be if Bruce knew about Damian in the beginning

----------


## Yennefer

RCO010_1584522841.jpg

RCO010_1584522841.jpg

Let's show how God, or any Upper Cosmic power there is in comics, punishes 10yo boys (he was 10 at the time), who were forced to learn the LOA culture without any alternative to choose (not that an isolated 10yo would have the ability to judge anyway)... 
What else do they have to say for their poor plot? 
And also, I will try to form my question in the most gentle way possible (cause I want my account):
Are some people that idiot, or do they try to? I hope this run will never be a canon. Literally.... It is full of wrong moves for this character. Not to mention the way Flash (or whatever his name is) understood about it, was not persuasive.

----------


## Ansa

> Attachment 94580
> 
> Attachment 94580
> 
> Let's show how God, or any Upper Cosmic power there is in comics, punishes 10yo boys (he was 10 at the time), who were forced to learn the LOA culture without any alternative to choose (not that an isolated 10yo would have the ability to judge anyway)... 
> What else do they have to say for their poor plot? 
> And also, I will try to form my question in the most gentle way possible (cause I want my account):
> Are some people that idiot, or do they try to? I hope this run will never be a canon. Literally.... It is full of wrong moves for this character. Not to mention the way Flash (or whatever his name is) understood about it, was not persuasive.


That Damian went to hell was already established in Robin: Son of Batman by Gleason. At least I think it was, I don't have my copy with me right now.
But yeah, the victim blaming is strong in DC.

----------


## Light of Justice

In Robin : Son of Batman it stated that after he died he went to hell
tumblr_ogjt1wwMT01rxuh8go1_500.jpg
As much as it pains me, I feel proud of Damian. I mean, Hell is his top nightmare, and in past he yelled in fear that he wont go back to there again. But here we saw that to save his friend Damian concealed his feeling, willingly went to hell, and even he calmly led his team to find the way out. Damn, kid, are you sure that you're 13 years old?
But yeah, I'm SO salty of DC Gods (and DC writers) who build a plot that tell "son of batman, raised by LoA for 10 years, work hard to redeem himself and make his father proud BUT YOU KNOW WHAT? He will go evil in the future and go to hell after his death". Like seriously? Can you give that boy a break? Dick went to amnesia and Alfred died in front of his own eyes are not enough for him? 
And he will have a big fight with his father after this, and possibly lost his Robin mantle. 

Sorry for my bad english, and nice to meet you guys, I am a new fans of Damian Wayne. I love that brat.

----------


## Blue22

Yeeeeeah, Damian ending up in hell after he sacrificed himself to save his family, and was making the necessary steps towards redemption,  never sat right with me. I was always hoping that was just him having a bad dream. 

*sigh* But I guess it's legit. The kid just can't catch a break, even during times where things were going relatively well for him.

On the upside, this issue was nice. The art was nice. Seeing Roundhouse dead was nice. My Wednesday is now off to a nice start.

----------


## Light of Justice

Damian's home in hell
damian's home in hell.jpg
now that we're on it, let's we imagine little 10 years old Damian, hid in a dark cave away from demons and his own fears, huddled in mattress and thin blanket, counted his day after day in hell, perhaps without his lantern at first, and to get that lantern so he can be free of his illusions, he fought a literal demon and killed it.
Sounds like a painfully good angst fic.

----------


## Blue22

I just wanna know where the mattress came from xD

----------


## Ansa

> I just wanna know where the mattress came from xD


Utility belt?

----------


## Light of Justice

That mattress is bigger (and maybe heavier) than his whole body. If he brought that mattress around on his waist, he's a damn strong kid XD

----------


## Ansa

> That mattress is bigger (and maybe heavier) than his whole body. If he brought that mattress around on his waist, he's a damn strong kid XD


Batman's utility belts are magical  :Wink:

----------


## Ansa

> In Robin : Son of Batman it stated that after he died he went to hell
> tumblr_ogjt1wwMT01rxuh8go1_500.jpg
> As much as it pains me, I feel proud of Damian. I mean, Hell is his top nightmare, and in past he yelled in fear that he wont go back to there again. But here we saw that to save his friend Damian concealed his feeling, willingly went to hell, and even he calmly led his team to find the way out. Damn, kid, are you sure that you're 13 years old?
> But yeah, I'm SO salty of DC Gods (and DC writers) who build a plot that tell "son of batman, raised by LoA for 10 years, work hard to redeem himself and make his father proud BUT YOU KNOW WHAT? He will go evil in the future and go to hell after his death". Like seriously? Can you give that boy a break? Dick went to amnesia and Alfred died in front of his own eyes are not enough for him? 
> And he will have a big fight with his father after this, and possibly lost his Robin mantle. 
> 
> Sorry for my bad english, and nice to meet you guys, I am a new fans of Damian Wayne. I love that brat.


Welcome to the community. Always good to see new faces.

Damian had a point when he said Robin is suffering. Well, his whole life is suffering, but I'm not sure if becoming part of the bat-family has helped that much, you always end up as cannon fodder for the next big Batman storyline.

Damian is still running around with the R on his chest in the issues after the next Teen Titans Annual, so that whole "leaving the mantle" thing has become pretty unclear. Hopefully the cover is simply lying and Bruce and Damian will find another solution.

The last story in the 80th anniversary special sets up the confrontation and Bruce's last line is that he has to keep an eye on Damian not as Batman, but as his father. Hopefully he will remember that when he finds out what Damian has done and does some reflection on what has lead them both to this situation instead of just punching it out.

The Batman issue that came out today also gave some interesting insight into Bruce's desperation when it comes to the escalating war against criminals and how they always come back worse than before.

There is potential for an interesting confrontation. I just hope they don't waste it to show more dumb child abuse.

----------


## Yennefer

I've been thinking of quitting the comics guys.... 
The way DC writes Damian is just unethical and I can't handle it. 
Damian's storyline in bullets:
A child is being severely abused and used as a tool.
It is exposed to one criminal and inhuman culture.
He acts on it, because the alternative would be violence and death.
A child being abandoned.
A child being blamed for the aggressive and emotionless behaviour he was forced to have.
A child that never really received help from anyone.
And lastly, a child that was neglected and abandoned again, because what's easiest than changing 10years of nurture (AND NOT nature)?
This shit is child abuse in all of it's existence and DC makes profit out of it. I refuse it.

And, apart from that, let's not forget that comics affect readers' morals, just like novels... Especially when it comes to young people.
The (negative) way people perceive Damian, will be the same they perceive people in REAL cases... And I do not talk about children that have done serious and hideous crimes (from serious body damage and above).
I am talking for aggressive and emotionally strained children f.e. that need help and love... Not rejection.
Because that's the only way to diminish the possibilities of them following a bad behaviour and changing them.
I find it unacceptable and stupid.
A delirium unable writers maintain to support their plots.

P.S. I really wish I could write in my language. I can't express the whole spectrum of what I think and feel about it....

----------


## dietrich

> That Damian went to hell was already established in Robin: Son of Batman by Gleason. At least I think it was, I don't have my copy with me right now.
> But yeah, the victim blaming is strong in DC.


He had recurring Nightmares about it in B&R.

I mean since Dc has the concept of Heaven or Hell then where else would all these Dc heroes go other than hell?

----------


## Blue22

> He had recurring Nightmares about it in B&R.
> 
> I mean since Dc has the concept of Heaven or Hell then where else would all these Dc heroes go other than hell?


Thats honestly a good question.  Like Damian, most DC heroes are genuinely good people who've still done horrible things. Has any other hero who's died and come back ever talked about where they went? I imagine the afterlife life is a pretty complicated place when the DC Universe seems to be a mix of several beliefs when it comes to how religion, deities, and life after death works

----------


## Light of Justice

_{Damian had a point when he said Robin is suffering. Well, his whole life is suffering, but I'm not sure if becoming part of the bat-family has helped that much, you always end up as cannon fodder for the next big Batman storyline.}_
Ugh tell me about it. That makes me hope for him to leave robin title and make his own hero name like Dick, Jason, or now apparently Drake.

_{Damian is still running around with the R on his chest in the issues after the next Teen Titans Annual, so that whole "leaving the mantle" thing has become pretty unclear. Hopefully the cover is simply lying and Bruce and Damian will find another solution.}_
I hope so. As much as I want Damian to become hero at his own, Robin title is the one who tied him with Bruce, and I don't want their relationship become estranged like Jason.

_{The last story in the 80th anniversary special sets up the confrontation and Bruce's last line is that he has to keep an eye on Damian not as Batman, but as his father. Hopefully he will remember that when he finds out what Damian has done and does some reflection on what has lead them both to this situation instead of just punching it out.}_
Is Robin comic already available on internet? About punching it out, I think that's kinda inevitable for both of them. I mean, do you remember Bruce's conflict with Jason? And Damian's conflict with Jason? (Poor Jason). 

_{There is potential for an interesting confrontation. I just hope they don't waste it to show more dumb child abuse.}_
Yeah, I hope that too. It will be too depressing if Bruce really hit Damian who just fresh from hell. But one thing I learned from this fandom is never ever underestimate DC's cruelty.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Welcome to the community. Always good to see new faces.
> 
> Damian had a point when he said Robin is suffering. Well, his whole life is suffering, but I'm not sure if becoming part of the bat-family has helped that much, you always end up as cannon fodder for the next big Batman storyline.
> 
> Damian is still running around with the R on his chest in the issues after the next Teen Titans Annual, so that whole "leaving the mantle" thing has become pretty unclear. Hopefully the cover is simply lying and Bruce and Damian will find another solution.
> 
> The last story in the 80th anniversary special sets up the confrontation and Bruce's last line is that he has to keep an eye on Damian not as Batman, but as his father. Hopefully he will remember that when he finds out what Damian has done and does some reflection on what has lead them both to this situation instead of just punching it out.
> 
> The Batman issue that came out today also gave some interesting insight into Bruce's desperation when it comes to the escalating war against criminals and how they always come back worse than before.
> ...


_{Damian had a point when he said Robin is suffering. Well, his whole life is suffering, but I'm not sure if becoming part of the bat-family has helped that much, you always end up as cannon fodder for the next big Batman storyline.}_
Ugh tell me about it. That makes me hope for him to leave robin title and make his own hero name like Dick, Jason, or now apparently Drake.

_{Damian is still running around with the R on his chest in the issues after the next Teen Titans Annual, so that whole "leaving the mantle" thing has become pretty unclear. Hopefully the cover is simply lying and Bruce and Damian will find another solution.}_
I hope so. As much as I want Damian to become hero at his own, Robin title is the one who tied him with Bruce, and I don't want their relationship become estranged like Jason.

_{The last story in the 80th anniversary special sets up the confrontation and Bruce's last line is that he has to keep an eye on Damian not as Batman, but as his father. Hopefully he will remember that when he finds out what Damian has done and does some reflection on what has lead them both to this situation instead of just punching it out.}_
Is Robin comic already available on internet? About punching it out, I think that's kinda inevitable for both of them. I mean, do you remember Bruce's conflict with Jason? And Damian's conflict with Jason? (Poor Jason). 

_{There is potential for an interesting confrontation. I just hope they don't waste it to show more dumb child abuse.}_
Yeah, I hope that too. It will be too depressing if Bruce really hit Damian who just fresh from hell. But one thing I learned from this fandom is never ever underestimate DC's cruelty.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Thats honestly a good question.  Like Damian, most DC heroes are genuinely good people who've still done horrible things. Has any other hero who's died and come back ever talked about where they went? I imagine the afterlife life is a pretty complicated place when the DC Universe seems to be a mix of several beliefs when it comes to how religion, deities, and life after death works


We can ask Superman for that. Even though I don't think he went to hell, he seems too pure compared to other hero, like Batman for example

----------


## Ansa

Yeah, if you look at how DC has let Bruce handle any serious disagreements with his family and friends over the last 10+ years you kinda learn to expect him to hit his 13 year old son instead of trying to be a good mentor and finding an actual solution to their problems.

I don't see how hitting Damian would convince him that Bruce's methods are the right way to go (especially since Bruce's methods are also questionable at best), Jason certainly wasn't convinced after his fight with Bruce, but DC always finds a way to spin things in Batman's favour.

A new identity isn't enough to keep Damian safe from the bat-office using him as cannon fodder. Just look at Nightwing. Damian has it even harder when it comes to independence because he is tied to Bruce by blood. That connection is hard to cut. I liked their relationship in Batman and Robin and want more stories with them. I hope for the sake of both their characters (and for the sake of my patience with DC comics) that they don't completely ruin Bruce as a father and Damian's arc to becoming a better person with the Annual, but I'm trying not to be too optimistic.

----------


## Yennefer

They will fail to do it right and you know it xD

----------


## Ansa

> They will fail to do it right and you know it xD


It's kinda sad that I expect DC's flagship hero to suck in every way imaginable.

Oh wait, I forgot. I'm such an idiot. It's just going to be punch code so Damian knows what to do in Bruce's secret masterplan to stop the Joker in Joker War!

----------


## dietrich

Well it sounds like Today's comics are going to be very interesting reading can't wait to pick up my copies however....

Yeah the Nature or Nurture thing. This  gets applied incorrectly. Damian's story is about Nurture.

[@Yennefer this isn't referring to you comment it's just that your comment reminded me of a misunderstanding that I always wanted to touch on re the Nature vs Nurture thing re Damian]


Bruce hints at it in Batman and Son when he mentions that 

“He was raised by international terrorists in his grandfather’s League of Assassins. Brutalized, indoctrinated, then used as a weapon in his mother’s insane war with me.” 

In Morrision B&R where Talia Accuses Grayson of Brainwashing Damian into the Bat Cult'

Bat or Demon

Damian isn't Evil by nature [whatever that means] 
Damian's Nature is often used as code for going Al Ghul, Bad. As Tim puts it his 'Biology'. The bias and prejudice is unreal.


Always forgetting that Damian's 'Biology' is as much Al Ghul as Wayne. 

Damian's personality. His 'nature' seems to be Bruce's .they are pretty much the same. Damian's mannerism's , quirks and personality are from Bruce the only thing he has been shown to share with Talia is at times not shown as Caucasian. He has the same capabilities as Bruce even outside of the uniform.


So lets that biased way of thinking just go die.


Damian fans and some often forget has already chosen to help the world before he officially became a Robin. The uniform didn't make him a hero or make him 'Not Evil'

He made this decision HIMSELF. Of his own free will independent of the two parental sides.  Bat and Demon.

He decided to got to Gotham and help. Doing so without Robin and without the Bats. His nature is already set. Damian is a kid with a huge heart, lots of love which he struggles to show because h e resembles his father who is bad at expressing/communicating his emotions verbal so shows it in other ways just like Damian. 

He is generous not just with gifts and donation but with how far he give of himself for others. Damian died to prevent others from dying. He was sent to Hell came back didn't stop fighting for others. Died again came back and here he is in todays TT in Hell and he hasn't stopped fight for the innocents and the little people.

Hell couldn't stop Damian Wayne from fighting for other people. That is Canon that is his truth and has been for a very long time now so anyone at this point who thinks or applies that nature crap ii isn't that they are mistaken.

They are stupid and can't read yet they are still buying comics. They just look at pictures at this point you should be walking away from that person. 


Damian Wayne

It's in his name. 

The character name wasn't chosen just because it was the name of one of Morrison's best friends. It's more than that.

Damian  name translates in to two different thing

'To Tame'

'To Conquer'

which seems to be Talia’s reasoning for his name when she says in issue #7, “Damian will stride across the 21st century like a new Alexander”.


Talia’s plans for Damian don’t include his role as Robin as she sees it as a “phase” 


Talia  here has preconceived notions about who Damian is as a character. Like all of the fans who doubted that Damian would be a worthy successor to the Batman name.

“their plan is to tame and brainwash you until nothing is left but a spineless puppet. The world could be yours.” The tame or the conqueror – the two possibilities of Damian’s namesake – are the options that Talia presents to her son. Invokes the idea of destiny.

Damian ever defiant says, “I won’t be your weapon against them, mother.”

He even asked why Talia can't just love him as he is?

Damian says that Robin is the best thing that he has ever done. He gave up everything for the role and made himself an enemy of the House of Al Ghul resulting in Talia place a Billion dollar bounty on his head culminating in his death at the hands of the Heretic. A cloned better version of himself which Talia even showed him. [That's cold Talia]


To 'Tame or To 'Conquer'.  That is the emotional conflict at the core of the character.

He choose to become a hero of his own free will. 

He feels guilt over the letting people down and sadness when he fails - Sasha the girl he failed to save from Pyg, the sight of dead children killed by Zsasz makes him physical sick  he vomits. The countless lives that perished when the JL failed to save a planet in No Justice.

Man I love Grant Morrison, even more than Scott Synder loves him  :Cool: 

When you go back and look at his Batman work it truly is Masterful. 

The way he managed to weave ALL 80 years of Batman into the Story, connected the future - Batman 700 where Damian saves baby Terry making him a canon DC character.
Set up the foundation for future writer to build on- Synder would later build Metal. 
Celebrate Robin in a way that even DC has failed to with the Robin's 75 and 80th Anniversary with B&R Reborn -

 Note to Tynion Dick Grayson doesn't represent Bruce's empathy and Damian doesn't represent his blood or legacy.

Dick Grayson represents Batman's legacy. That was the point of B&R Volume one.
Batman and Robin will never die. It carries on even after Bruce Wayne is dead and gone, the Legacy remains. 

Damian represent Hope. The reason why he fights.

Morrison is a Master builder. I keep finding more layers every time I reread his run.

From the hint in Batman and son 
the gradually development in B&R
the end in Batman Inc... 
And set up for future writers - the  possibilities of the two futures that were foreshadowed in Batman666 and Batman 700.

Impressive.

 I've so much more I'd like to say but this got super long and off track in places so I'm stopping.

----------


## Ansa

Not sure if I will ever forgive Morrison for the shit he has done to Talia's character.

----------


## Ansa

I wish people would remember not just the part where Damian killed Nobody in the Born to Kill arc at the beginning of Tomasi's Batman and Robin run but also the rest of it. Bruce almost got carried away in his anger and came close to killing Nobody with acid before he looked at Damian and decided against it.
Bruce even says in the issue after the fight that the urge to kill is something he struggles with and that Damian didn't fall far from the Wayne tree (I mean, just look at Flashpoint Thomas and all the shit Bruce does on a daily basis)
Bruce also came close to gauging Ra's eyes out during the hunt for Damian's corpse and was only stopped by the arrival of Darseid's forces.
The idea that all of Damian's bad traits come from his mother's side is bullshit. I know fanon likes to idolize Bruce and put everything bad on Talia but that simply isn't true.

The last story in the 80th anniversary special has text boxes for both Damian and Bruce that give us their thoughts on the situation and their current relationship that are clearly meant to mirror each other and show their similarities. They also visit the same places, Bruce in the first page, Damian in the last. It's a very deliberate choice.

Tynion writes a Bruce that has realized that Batman can't keep going the same way he did in the past and decides to try new ways, which interestingly also includes a high security prison to stop criminals that Arkham can't keep inside, a thought Damian shares.

----------


## dietrich

> Not sure if I will ever forgive Morrison for the shit he has done to Talia's character.


I'm not a fan of the Rape but that was retconed both in Batman and by Tomasi although some fans still run with it

Asdie from that I like Morrison's take on Talia. I agree with Morrison Bruce is no match for Talia. They are on different levels. Bruce in many ways a man child and Talia wants the world.

I'm  not a fan of Talia being a puppet for Ra's or bait to lure the batman to his side. She lacked agency. Not to mention that once Talia and Ra's successfully cloned a version of Damian they no longer needed Batman. If Damian is indeed as Scott Synder put it 'The Batman perfected' A batman that lacks empathy. One who  been genetically enhanced so it's far superior then why do they still need Bruce?

Talia as Leviathan defeated Batman.  The LOA have the genetic material needed to build a superior Batman so they don't need him that angle is gone.

Talia been in love with Bruce is canon. She did love him but in Batman Inc she was over him and ready to burn that bridge.

In RSOB  she was well done with him and I liked their dynamic there. Divorced and squabbling over custody
The character is better and stronger as a big bad. The love interest bit is played out and has less possibilities for growth. 

Bruce is not going to ever have a single love or soul mate. He isn't about to find his one true love until the very last issue of a batman.

DC has very few big female bad guys and many many potential love interests for Bruce. So it's better for the character that she be more than Love interest number whatever out of many.

----------


## Ansa

> I'm not a fan of the Rape but that was retconed both in Batman and by Tomasi although some fans still run with it
> 
> Asdie from that I like Morrison's take on Talia. I agree with Morrison Bruce is no match for Talia. They are on different levels. Bruce in many ways a man child and Talia wants the world.
> 
> I'm  not a fan of Talia being a puppet for Ra's or bait to lure the batman to his side. She lacked agency. Not to mention that once Talia and Ra's successfully cloned a version of Damian they no longer needed Batman. If Damian is indeed as Scott Synder put it 'The Batman perfected' A batman that lacks empathy. One who  been genetically enhanced so it's far superior then why do they still need Bruce?
> 
> Talia as Leviathan defeated Batman


Talia wanted to be free from the League and live her life, not be part of Ra's eugenics experiments.
She wasn't a power hungry maniac with no morals. She didn't want the world. She was a character motivated by love. Now she's just another mustache twirling villain, the complete opposite of the anti-heroine she was for decades.
Sorry, but this change is shit.

----------


## Ansa

And the only thing we've got since then is writers shitting on her by having random dudes sleep with her, using her as a racist stereotype or have her lose against people like Catwoman in a swordfight to prop Selina up as a love interest for Bruce.
Fuck this shit.

----------


## dietrich

> Talia wanted to be free from the League and live her life, not be part of Ra's eugenics experiments.
> She wasn't a power hungry maniac with no morals. She didn't want the world. She was a character motivated by love. Now she's just another mustache twirling villain, the complete opposite of the anti-heroine she was for decades.
> Sorry, but this change is shit.


Talia also was also a willing part of the Ra's Plan.
Talia loved Bruce
Talia has aided Bruce in his fight
Talia bombed BludHaven
Talia was also a loving mother who loved and cared for her son. She fought Ra's to keep him safe.
Talia was a victim and an abuser. 
Talia was abused, brain washed and  weaponized by her father
Talia abused, brain washed and  weaponized her son
Talia helped save the World

All the above is true and you are correct that she wanted to be free of the league and Ra's. 

Writers have been inconsistent in how they use Talia however I prefer how Morrison used her. I think he by counting the ties he did the character a favour and increased the chances of her being used.

----------


## Blue22

I've always preferred a true neutral Talia as opposed to her being all the way good or all the way bad. So I'm not a huge fan of Morrison (and the new animated universe) having her go full villain. It makes even less sense in the animated movies when she was this caring, uber protective mother in one movie. And the next time we see her it's "Kill the bastard!"

Though that pales in comparison to how bad the Nolanverse Talia is.

----------


## dietrich

> And the only thing we've got since then is writers shitting on her by having random dudes sleep with her, using her as a racist stereotype or have her lose against people like Catwoman in a swordfight to prop Selina up as a love interest for Bruce.
> Fuck this shit.


Talia has been getting more use since Rebirth which is good however the racism and sexism isn't anything to do her being an outright bad guy or Morrison. It's to do with those writers are sexist and racist. Simple


+ King using Talia to prop Selina was shitty but WW was the real victim. Talia and Selina are at least peers but to use a feminist icon to prop a lower level character that you then later bring back her past as a sex worker is unreal.

----------


## Godlike13

I like Morrison’s Talia. She was a character corrupted and dissilusioned by rejection. I don’t even hate what Talia became after. There is good and bad, but she carries her own presence now. Shes not just the the daughter or the mother.

----------


## Blue22

[img]https://****************.ru/uploads/manga/robin-80th-anniversary-100page-super-spectacular-2020/chapters/1/63.jpg[/img]
I always love seeing some positive interaction between Damian and Tim

"You're only listening to the insults and not what I'm saying with them"
Well at least he knows he's a tsundere XD

----------


## Yennefer

> And the only thing we've got since then is writers shitting on her by having random dudes sleep with her, using her as a racist stereotype or have her lose against people like Catwoman in a swordfight to prop Selina up as a love interest for Bruce.
> Fuck this shit.


I don't make the mistake of supporting a specific ship very passionately... But... I low-key hate BatCat and I am (low-key) a brutalia shipper. 
It's not random that 2 of 3 most popular love interests of Batman, are from the other side of the law. However, Batcat seems to be a cheap copy of what they want to illustrate: The cliché dilemma between passionate, unresisting love and justice. Talia is the high class criminal here. And the true anti-hero (the original talia) for obvious reasons. So that's why she makes it more powerful.
To answer to what you wrote... I laughed my ass off at how ridiculous they made it with this fight. But the "good" ones always win. Apparently CW is better at Swords especially............
I think they have tried this angsty romance for so long... So sticking the understanding and compatible( with Bruce) Selina Kyle to batman, would prepare the ground for something they want to go for this time: settling down, changing of the status quo, exploring the family side of him, changing Batman's core etc...
And other boring stuff that tick me off. But it is 80year story. Sometimes, good things have to end. (Unpopular opinion here)




> Talia also was also a willing part of the Ra's Plan.
> Talia loved Bruce
> Talia has aided Bruce in his fight
> Talia bombed BludHaven
> Talia was also a loving mother who loved and cared for her son. She fought Ra's to keep him safe.
> Talia was a victim and an abuser. 
> Talia was abused, brain washed and  weaponized by her father
> Talia abused, brain washed and  weaponized her son
> Talia helped save the World
> ...


I really love how perfectly you can analyse those characters... Until I learnt that Talia killed Damian, I didn't hate her... (Well now kinda) ... I always thought she was misunderstood and very similar to him. But basically they have done whatever there is in their hands to destroy her. And that takes talent.

What bothers me with talia is not her being evil. Is her being illustrated as maniac, insane, uncontrolled, lost. It is a degradation of her character.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Talia also was also a willing part of the Ra's Plan.
> Talia loved Bruce
> Talia has aided Bruce in his fight
> Talia bombed BludHaven
> Talia was also a loving mother who loved and cared for her son. She fought Ra's to keep him safe.
> Talia was a victim and an abuser. 
> Talia was abused, brain washed and  weaponized by her father
> Talia abused, brain washed and  weaponized her son
> Talia helped save the World
> ...


To add to that; Talia also brought Jason back (one way or the other), and not only helped to train him, but introduced him to the All-Caste.

----------


## Ansa

> Talia also was also a willing part of the Ra's Plan.
> Talia loved Bruce
> Talia has aided Bruce in his fight
> Talia bombed BludHaven
> Talia was also a loving mother who loved and cared for her son. She fought Ra's to keep him safe.
> Talia was a victim and an abuser. 
> Talia was abused, brain washed and  weaponized by her father
> Talia abused, brain washed and  weaponized her son
> Talia helped save the World
> ...


The chances of her to be used as a worse copy of Ra's, who has also lost a lot of the appeal he used to have. Miss me with that.

----------


## Ansa

> I like Morrisons Talia. She was a character corrupted and dissilusioned by rejection. I dont even hate what Talia became after. There is good and bad, but she carries her own presence now. Shes not just the the daughter or the mother.


She became a maniac because a man rejected her, what an empowering story. Feminist icon. Talia was on her own path.
Now she's literally just the psycho mother of Damian.

----------


## Ansa

> Talia has been getting more use since Rebirth which is good however the racism and sexism isn't anything to do her being an outright bad guy or Morrison. It's to do with those writers are sexist and racist. Simple
> 
> 
> + King using Talia to prop Selina was shitty but WW was the real victim. Talia and Selina are at least peers but to use a feminist icon to prop a lower level character that you then later bring back her past as a sex worker is unreal.


The Wonder Woman thing makes the Talia story not less shitty. That's not even an argument. And I do think that Morrison making Batman's only major poc love interest into an outright villain helped encouraging the racist portrayals we've got since then.
It's sad to see that Talia's portrayal was less offensive back in the day then it is now.

----------


## Godlike13

> She became a maniac because a man rejected her, what an empowering story. Feminist icon. Talia was on her own path.
> Now she's literally just the psycho mother of Damian.


It wasn’t suppose to be an empowering story or make her a icon of any sort. Kind of missing the point there.

----------


## Light of Justice

> [img]https://****************.ru/uploads/manga/robin-80th-anniversary-100page-super-spectacular-2020/chapters/1/63.jpg[/img]
> I always love seeing some positive interaction between Damian and Tim
> 
> "You're only listening to the insults and not what I'm saying with them"
> Well at least he knows he's a tsundere XD


Is it already available on internet? 
And Dami, I love you but you really need to learn how to compliment person properly. I mean, if you throw gold covered with shit on someone's head, you can't expect them to find completely grateful for the gold and not feel angry because you make them hurt and dirty. But yeah, now he already develop so much and truthfully compliment Tim, I'm proud of him.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Is it already available on internet? 
> And Dami, I love you but you really need to learn how to compliment person properly. I mean, if you throw gold covered with shit on someone's head, you can't expect them to find completely grateful for the gold and not feel angry because you make them hurt and dirty. But yeah, now he already develop so much and truthfully compliment Tim, I'm proud of him.


It is. And an overall good read.

----------


## Light of Justice

> She became a maniac because a man rejected her, what an empowering story. Feminist icon. Talia was on her own path.
> Now she's literally just the psycho mother of Damian.


My feeling about Talia is... complicated. As you know, I am new fan of DC and I only follow Batfam stories (and Superman a little) so I have no idea how is Talia's character back then. But I kinda picture her on some point similiar to Damian. I mean, Dami is heir of LoA, but many people forget that means Talia is the princess of LoA. I bet on her childhood she was treated similiar as Damian, same harsh training, same high expectation, same thought that she is the best of the best in this world. Person like that will not handle rejection with good heart, especially when the one who reject them is their own son, whom they nurture since birth. Don't forget, Damian did not choose Bruce over Talia, he chose DICK over Talia. To let go of your son for someone whom you once loved it's different than to let go of your son for a silly circus boy (at leat I think that how she feel about Dick). How do you feel when your own son reject you and choose a man younger than you, much less experienced than you? We know how Damian reacted on rejection, how angry he is, how explosive he is. Talia I think will act the same, if not worse. 

But I hate her (or interpretation of her character) on Deathstroke arc. I just feel, what was she doing? The arc feel pointless, I don't even know what she wanted to gain on that arc? For Deathstroke to undo his sterilization and fuck her? What the hell? 
If I must choose Talia or Selina, I will choose Talia. I don't really fond of Selina, when I still watched anime, I really hate characters who end their sentence with 'meow'. I think that's really annoying. But I really hate Selina when she (unintentionally) distracted Bruce on beach when Dami tied on chair and watched Alfred's killing process. And you wanna make me believe that Talia, the Daughter of Demon Talia, with harsh training since childhood and maybe by Ra's himself, lost to a thieving cat who maybe never killed someone before? I hope Talia just tested her and did not seriously fight her.

----------


## Light of Justice

> It is. And an overall good read.


Wow.. Can you give me the link? I can't find it by my own :P

----------


## AmiMizuno

Talia does have a lot to answer. She had no reason to rape Bruce. But she is use to getting the results she wants

----------


## Blue22

I prefer they not even try to justify that particular decision and just keep on pretending it only happened in Morrison's head. Bruce and Talia were very much in love when Damian was conceived. There was no reason to write Talia date raping him. If there's one thing Bruce is always down for, it's irresponsible sex. Just ask Selina and the multiple rooftops they've done it on.

----------


## dietrich

> Talia does have a lot to answer. She had no reason to rape Bruce. But she is use to getting the results she wants


 Well she didn't rape bruce.

----------


## dietrich

> My feeling about Talia is... complicated. As you know, I am new fan of DC and I only follow Batfam stories (and Superman a little) so I have no idea how is Talia's character back then. But I kinda picture her on some point similiar to Damian. I mean, Dami is heir of LoA, but many people forget that means Talia is the princess of LoA. I bet on her childhood she was treated similiar as Damian, same harsh training, same high expectation, same thought that she is the best of the best in this world. Person like that will not handle rejection with good heart, especially when the one who reject them is their own son, whom they nurture since birth. Don't forget, Damian did not choose Bruce over Talia, he chose DICK over Talia. To let go of your son for someone whom you once loved it's different than to let go of your son for a silly circus boy (at leat I think that how she feel about Dick). How do you feel when your own son reject you and choose a man younger than you, much less experienced than you? We know how Damian reacted on rejection, how angry he is, how explosive he is. Talia I think will act the same, if not worse. 
> 
> But I hate her (or interpretation of her character) on Deathstroke arc. I just feel, what was she doing? The arc feel pointless, I don't even know what she wanted to gain on that arc? For Deathstroke to undo his sterilization and fuck her? What the hell? 
> If I must choose Talia or Selina, I will choose Talia. I don't really fond of Selina, when I still watched anime, I really hate characters who end their sentence with 'meow'. I think that's really annoying. But I really hate Selina when she (unintentionally) distracted Bruce on beach when Dami tied on chair and watched Alfred's killing process. And you wanna make me believe that Talia, the Daughter of Demon Talia, with harsh training since childhood and maybe by Ra's himself, lost to a thieving cat who maybe never killed someone before? I hope Talia just tested her and did not seriously fight her.


Talia was just testing Selina but the problem is King only clarifies this fact on his twitter.

She is a very much a victim and conditioning

----------


## dietrich

> I don't make the mistake of supporting a specific ship very passionately... But... I low-key hate BatCat and I am (low-key) a brutalia shipper. 
> It's not random that 2 of 3 most popular love interests of Batman, are from the other side of the law. However, Batcat seems to be a cheap copy of what they want to illustrate: The cliché dilemma between passionate, unresisting love and justice. Talia is the high class criminal here. And the true anti-hero (the original talia) for obvious reasons. So that's why she makes it more powerful.
> To answer to what you wrote... I laughed my ass off at how ridiculous they made it with this fight. But the "good" ones always win. Apparently CW is better at Swords especially............
> I think they have tried this angsty romance for so long... So sticking the understanding and compatible( with Bruce) Selina Kyle to batman, would prepare the ground for something they want to go for this time: settling down, changing of the status quo, exploring the family side of him, changing Batman's core etc...
> And other boring stuff that tick me off. But it is 80year story. Sometimes, good things have to end. (Unpopular opinion here)
> 
> 
> 
> I really love how perfectly you can analyse those characters... Until I learnt that Talia killed Damian, I didn't hate her... (Well now kinda) ... I always thought she was misunderstood and very similar to him. But basically they have done whatever there is in their hands to destroy her. And that takes talent.
> ...


Talia's killing of Damian were confirmed to being the result of being under the control of a madness of some form that was taken out of her. They are contained in two Black pearls which she presented to Damian in Robin Son of Batman.
She meet up with him to reconcile and even help him stop an ancient cult from destroying the world.

----------


## dietrich

> The Wonder Woman thing makes the Talia story not less shitty. That's not even an argument. And I do think that Morrison making Batman's only major poc love interest into an outright villain helped encouraging the racist portrayals we've got since then.
> It's sad to see that Talia's portrayal was less offensive back in the day then it is now.


wasn't making an argument or even trying to counter you have your opinion and I have mine which is that bringing in a character that has zero to do with the plot. Who had no stakes in Bruce's love life just to set up a ship is shitter to me.

Talia losing at sword fight is nothing compared to smearing a character.
talia losing in a sword fight is nothing when she has dropped a nuke on bludHaven and already written as seducing a traumatised kid because jason was teenager when he was killed off so unless aged when he was he was still a teen.  So yeah losing is nothing when a character has been written FAR worse.
WW was degraded. he was turned into a would be adulteress.


Talia was already a mass murderer before Morrison. So she was already villainous POC before  Morrison

----------


## Zaresh

> Wow.. Can you give me the link? I can't find it by my own :P


For any digital copy, check any digital shop.

----------


## Light of Justice

> For any digital copy, check any digital shop.


okay thank you! I already found it.
And yes indeed so good. Especially 'bat and mouse' one. Now I understand the meaning of 'rock meets rock'

----------


## Light of Justice

stubborn father and son 1.jpg

Every child and parent ever

----------


## Arctic Cyclist

> Talia also was also a willing part of the Ra's Plan.
> Talia loved Bruce
> Talia has aided Bruce in his fight
> Talia bombed BludHaven
> Talia was also a loving mother who loved and cared for her son. She fought Ra's to keep him safe.
> Talia was a victim and an abuser. 
> Talia was abused, brain washed and  weaponized by her father
> Talia abused, brain washed and  weaponized her son
> Talia helped save the World
> ...


In all fairness, when Talia allowed the bombing of Bludhaven she was legitimately insane from Lazarus Pit poisoning. Remember, besides the dozen or so on page deaths we saw as well as all the ones from her childhood we've been told about, Talia also died more times in 72 hours than Ra's had in over 1000+ years. In Emperor Joker, we saw Bruce hit the same level of trauma Talia has and it left him shattered and willing to kill, albeit without the inherent resilience that allows Talia to remember that at her core she has always placed others before her own needs and wants.

When you talk about her seducing a traumatized Jason Todd, it is important to put the event back in context: she's just died several hundred times over a long weekend with her sister and then once more at her father's hands in order to distract Batman. Then Batman burned her father's corpse and scattered the ashes. Jason, however, has been shown to be fully aware of and cognizant of his actions, mostly beyond his trauma, an adult capable of complex moral and ethical decisions, and a good trusted friend who is down for funeral sex. She didn't so much seduce him as say I had a rough week, want to fuck? It's nothing at all like the times Selina made out with and attempted to seduce Dick, or every encounter with Ivy ever, or the Harley Quinn movie when Harley kidnapped and raped Dick.

Talia loves her father, yes. She's also shown to have the clinical version of traumatic bonding with her father, just as she's been shown to raise multiple people and successfully teach them how to tell healthy from unhealthy relationships.

It is also now explicitly stated in canon that her staying in a relationship with her father as well as her relationship with Bruce were deliberately manipulated by all of the intelligence agencies in the world as she was the only thing keeping all the villains, her father, and Batman in check. When Talia stops giving a damn, things like Metal and Future's End happen.

----------


## alovelyburn

> It is also now explicitly stated in canon that her staying in a relationship with her father as well as her relationship with Bruce were deliberately manipulated by all of the intelligence agencies in the world as she was the only thing keeping all the villains, her father, and Batman in check. When Talia stops giving a damn, things like Metal and Future's End happen.


Man, I've been reading the CBR boards since the 90s and I have never posted, but now I have to post just to ask...

...wait, where was that stated?

Anyway, yeah Morrison ruined a fantastic character and I still dream of all that going away, thank you for listening.

----------


## dietrich

> In all fairness, when Talia allowed the bombing of Bludhaven she was legitimately insane from Lazarus Pit poisoning. Remember, besides the dozen or so on page deaths we saw as well as all the ones from her childhood we've been told about, Talia also died more times in 72 hours than Ra's had in over 1000+ years. In Emperor Joker, we saw Bruce hit the same level of trauma Talia has and it left him shattered and willing to kill, albeit without the inherent resilience that allows Talia to remember that at her core she has always placed others before her own needs and wants.
> 
> When you talk about her seducing a traumatized Jason Todd, it is important to put the event back in context: she's just died several hundred times over a long weekend with her sister and then once more at her father's hands in order to distract Batman. Then Batman burned her father's corpse and scattered the ashes. Jason, however, has been shown to be fully aware of and cognizant of his actions, mostly beyond his trauma, an adult capable of complex moral and ethical decisions, and a good trusted friend who is down for funeral sex. She didn't so much seduce him as say I had a rough week, want to fuck? It's nothing at all like the times Selina made out with and attempted to seduce Dick, or every encounter with Ivy ever, or the Harley Quinn movie when Harley kidnapped and raped Dick.
> 
> Talia loves her father, yes. She's also shown to have the clinical version of traumatic bonding with her father, just as she's been shown to raise multiple people and successfully teach them how to tell healthy from unhealthy relationships.
> 
> It is also now explicitly stated in canon that her staying in a relationship with her father as well as her relationship with Bruce were deliberately manipulated by all of the intelligence agencies in the world as she was the only thing keeping all the villains, her father, and Batman in check. When Talia stops giving a damn, things like Metal and Future's End happen.


Talia's behaviour in Inc was also blamed on a madness. Everything: madness, extreme behaviour, seduction. These all have precedence and we understand the underlining causes for the behaviour.
We know that some deep emotion can never be over come especially those in the early years of one's life which is why Bruce a grown ass man thinks he can end crime by punching bad dudes in the face one at a time.



I'm not sure because we all read the story and saw the movie. My theory is that that talking about it keeps it fresh. It's our fault.

Harley and Selina's sexcapes  aren't talked about because their fans don't go blasting creatives who wrote those stories they wish were never written thereby reminding everyone that ....Oh yeah that was a thing.

No one brings up How much they hate bruce timm for ruining Harley by turning her into a would be rapist when fans are discussing Batman the Animated series
No Selina fans bring up how much the dislike  ..whateverhisname is for writing Selina forcing herself on Dick when fans are discussing nightwing writers.

By talking about it those same fans are not only reminding us of what we forgot.
We went from talking about the Robin Special and Morrison's great work on Damian and that got derailed and we ended on Winnick a stupid story that no one has talked about or even recalled happened because boo!... Grant Morrison is the worst... 2 pages detailing the bad with talia. keeping it fresh

Anyway now that I've made sure to remind some of what they wish was forgotten I'm done.

----------


## Fergus

Talia isn't ruined. Current Talia is more of a villain and apparently has orgies but that doesn't ruin her anymore than King bringing back the ex-Sex worker thing for Catwoman. 

Morrison is not responsible for how Talia by written stories in 2020 by other writers. 

Race shouldn't decide what type of story or how a character is used especial when the character in question was introduced and for decades written as an antagonist.

----------


## Fergus

> stubborn father and son 1.jpg
> 
> Every child and parent ever


Yeah this got to me. I think I'm going to enjoy Thompson's writing a lot more than I did Glass. Hopefully this will lead to a positive breakthrough. The emotion between the two and the situation was very well done. It was certainly very familiar.

----------


## shadow6743

> Yeah this got to me. I think I'm going to enjoy Thompson's writing a lot more than I did Glass. Hopefully this will lead to a positive breakthrough. The emotion between the two and the situation was very well done. It was certainly very familiar.


I am looking forward to Thompson writing as well. I think he is perfect for this book. He did a great job with a Venom series called Venom Space Knight. Also he is really good at undercover stories as shown in his mini series Meet the Skrulls. I recommend both of these if anyone want to see Thompson's previous work. While I am looking forward to Thompson's run I will give Glass credit. In this day and age it is really hard to sell a book with new orginal characters and characters that may be considered unknown. But he did it. Regardless of how I view some of his writing choices I will always give him credit for creating a unique and interesting generation of Teen Titans for Damian. Regardless of what he decides to do next I hope he is successful.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Yeah this got to me. I think I'm going to enjoy Thompson's writing a lot more than I did Glass. Hopefully this will lead to a positive breakthrough. The emotion between the two and the situation was very well done. It was certainly very familiar.


I know right! When I read about their 'big collision that will alter DC universe' on solicitation, I imagine their fight will be about Bruce's "no killing or brainwashing villains just sent them to Arkham Asylum and doomed all therapists who are unfortunate enough to work on there" morality versus Damian's "keep villains in prison forever with virus on their body and the antidote is on prison's air so when they escape from prison they'll die, or if it's not working use genie body to wreck their brain" morality and they will insist that their morality is the right one. But on that story we can see that Bruce just want to reach through Damian and make Damian be open and rely to him, and Damian want to talk about his doubt and his fear but he's afraid that Bruce will feel disappointed on him. It's surprisingly........ familiar. It's a conflict that will happen on 90% of parent and child in this world. Including us readers, we can feel connected to their emotions despite the fact that we and them live in completely different world and completely different situation. 

But the problem is, they have 'Wayne stubbornness' run through their veins. And without Dick or Alfred as mediator between them, I think it's less possible that their conflict will be  'positive breakthrough'. We are considered lucky enough if there's no fist flying from and on both of them.

stubborn father and son 2.jpg
But hey look at that! Mr. 'I am always right because I am Batman' and little Mr. 'I am simply the best because I was raised by League of Assassin' admit that they are MAYBE wrong. Maybe there's a hope on them XD

----------


## Fergus

> I know right! When I read about their 'big collision that will alter DC universe' on solicitation, I imagine their fight will be about Bruce's "no killing or brainwashing villains just sent them to Arkham Asylum and doomed all therapists who are unfortunate enough to work on there" morality versus Damian's "keep villains in prison forever with virus on their body and the antidote is on prison's air so when they escape from prison they'll die, or if it's not working use genie body to wreck their brain" morality and they will insist that their morality is the right one. But on that story we can see that Bruce just want to reach through Damian and make Damian be open and rely to him, and Damian want to talk about his doubt and his fear but he's afraid that Bruce will feel disappointed on him. It's surprisingly........ familiar. It's a conflict that will happen on 90% of parent and child in this world. Including us readers, we can feel connected to their emotions despite the fact that we and them live in completely different world and completely different situation. 
> 
> But the problem is, they have 'Wayne stubbornness' run through their veins. And without Dick or Alfred as mediator between them, I think it's less possible that their conflict will be  'positive breakthrough'. We are considered lucky enough if there's no fist flying from and on both of them.
> 
> stubborn father and son 2.jpg
> But hey look at that! Mr. 'I am always right because I am Batman' and little Mr. 'I am simply the best because I was raised by League of Assassin' admit that they are MAYBE wrong. Maybe there's a hope on them XD


Yes I'm glad that they both recognise their shortcomings and flaws.
They both want to change or fix whatever is wrong
Both are aware that something is wrong - Bruce being able to tell from his son's heart hit me because I know that feeling so well. When you know something is weighing on your kid even without them saying a single word.

All are positives.

Both are stuck. Damian's way isn't ethical. Bruce's way doesn't and hasn't worked but it is backed by the law while Damian is making himself the Judge/Jury/warden.

Damian's good intentions leading to bad decision and actions is understandable. Damian being off the grid for months without BatBruce knowing is appalling.  Bruce at this point has failed both as a father and as Batman. That's a trend that's been very popular since Rebirth the guy needs a break and I miss Batman.

----------


## Fergus

> I am looking forward to Thompson writing as well. I think he is perfect for this book. He did a great job with a Venom series called Venom Space Knight. Also he is really good at undercover stories as shown in his mini series Meet the Skrulls. I recommend both of these if anyone want to see Thompson's previous work. While I am looking forward to Thompson's run I will give Glass credit. In this day and age it is really hard to sell a book with new orginal characters and characters that may be considered unknown. But he did it. Regardless of how I view some of his writing choices I will always give him credit for creating a unique and interesting generation of Teen Titans for Damian. Regardless of what he decides to do next I hope he is successful.


Thanks I might check both out, I've recently started getting more into Marvel.

----------


## AmiMizuno

> Yes I'm glad that they both recognise their shortcomings and flaws.
> They both want to change or fix whatever is wrong
> Both are aware that something is wrong - Bruce being able to tell from his son's heart hit me because I know that feeling so well. When you know something is weighing on your kid even without them saying a single word.
> 
> All are positives.
> 
> Both are stuck. Damian's way isn't ethical. Bruce's way doesn't and hasn't worked but it is backed by the law while Damian is making himself the Judge/Jury/warden.
> 
> Damian's good intentions leading to bad decision and actions is understandable. Damian being off the grid for months without BatBruce knowing is appalling.  Bruce at this point has failed both as a father and as Batman. That's a trend that's been very popular since Rebirth the guy needs a break and I miss Batman.



In a sense this is why Dick is more of a father figure to Damian, he loves his dad but Dick is always more stable option. Even if they fix it, Bruce is still mentally stunted

----------


## Jackalope89

Have to say, I enjoyed Tomasi's last hurrah of the Super Sons in the Robin anniversary special. A fun little story, and the dynamics between Jon and Damian were great.

----------


## Yennefer

Those panels were soooooooo anticipated... And yes. They hit right in the heart... I hope they won't ruin this wonderful thing next month.

----------


## Restingvoice

So yeah it looks like the Super Sons were set in "present" day when they're both kids. They just have lanky legs and I think they ignore canon a bit to make a cute story. I did wish they're the same age instead of having an awkward 3 years gap so it doesn't matter, and even when they're the same age, Damian feels older anyway because of his upbringing so their dynamic will remain the same.

----------


## Zaresh

I dunno. Jon seemed pretty mature for a 10yo to me. Maybe too easy going, but I can't say that he was childish, or too naive. They are mature above their age about different things I think.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I dunno. Jon seemed pretty mature for a 10yo to me. Maybe too easy going, but I can't say that he was childish, or too naive. They are mature above their age about different things I think.


Jon is more "typical kid" but doesn't really get hung up on many things (very relaxed personality, looking for fun and good-deed-doing) whereas Damian brings the more, I don't want to say "mature" so to speak, but perhaps, less "bright" experience on things? And the two combine to kind of balance one another out. Jon helps Damian be more of a kid, while Damian keeps a more "experienced" perspective, I guess.

----------


## Yennefer

Guys.... 
Selina's pregnancy is shown in Catwoman 80th year thing.... So it's canon. (?)

----------


## Korath

> Guys.... 
> Selina's pregnancy is shown in Catwoman 80th year thing.... So it's canon. (?)


I sadly suspect that it is. But we could get a nice surprise and it being limited to a "Kingverse".

----------


## Rac7d*

> Guys.... 
> Selina's pregnancy is shown in Catwoman 80th year thing.... So it's canon. (?)


So time skip or she loooses the baby becuase, Lois and her cant get any older without physical change

----------


## AmiMizuno

I mean Dc kept saying they want Huntress back in cannon.

----------


## Fergus

> Guys.... 
> Selina's pregnancy is shown in Catwoman 80th year thing.... So it's canon. (?)


It's not it's a one off story.

----------


## Fergus

> I mean Dc kept saying they want Huntress back in cannon.


Huntress is already canon and Helena Wayne is also returning. It was announced recently along with PG

----------


## Yennefer

Whatever the case is, I think it may make Damian distance himself more from Bruce... I mean, he thinks his father sees him as unworthy, disappointing etc... So all those insecurities, along with the jelousy he may feel(he is the only blood child) ... I don't like how it seems it will go.... And things are so confusing, bat/cat, batman and catwoman titles seem out of synchronization.
Anyways... World has too many problems to be overwhelmed with a comic.... Stay strong, careful and healthy my friends  :Smile:

----------


## Jackalope89

Bring it on! I'm curious to see Damian as the older brother for once.

----------


## Yennefer

> Bring it on! I'm curious to see Damian as the older brother for once.


Lol, probably he would be besotted eventually... Like, he will go through a crisis, then maybe hate the baby and want nothing to do with it..Feel like the outcast and be jealous... But in the end it will become his precious thing and his favourite person to spoil....  Yeah, from this point of view it would be both interesting and funny (:

----------


## Jackalope89

> Lol, probably he would be besotted eventually... Like, he will go through a crisis, then maybe hate the baby and want nothing to do with it..Feel like the outcast and be jealous... But in the end it will become his precious thing and his favourite person to spoil....  Yeah, from this point of view it would be both interesting and funny (:


A bit of this;



With a lot of this.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Bring it on! I'm curious to see Damian as the older brother for once.


Didn't he already show it to Jon? But indeed, his reaction to his blood sister it will be interesting to see

----------


## Jackalope89

> Didn't he already show it to Jon? But indeed, his reaction to his blood sister it will be interesting to see


Jon is his friend, a peer. They're "brothers" like Bruce and Clark are.

----------


## AmiMizuno

I mean how often has he distanced himself from Bruce. Damian often attaches himself to Dick. Why is that? Why not Alfred or someone else. Like Babs or Tim. Or Luke

----------


## Jackalope89

> I mean how often has he distanced himself from Bruce. Damian often attaches himself to Dick. Why is that? Why not Alfred or someone else. Like Babs or Tim. Or Luke


Alfred is dead right now. Damian and Tim have never been close (to say the least). Babs and Damian haven't interacted much. And I think its the same with Luke.

Dick though, has often been the parent for Damian, and a big influence on him reforming from being a child assassin.

----------


## Digifiend

It was actually Dick who agreed to let Damian be Robin.

----------


## sifighter

So this was probably the best place I could think to ask since my DCeased thread didn't really stay relevant, does anyone know if there exists cool fan art or commissions of Damian as Batman in DCeased?  All I can find is art of Black Canary as Green Lantern, or Green Canary, which is cool but I'd still like to see Damian art if possible.

----------


## AmiMizuno

> Alfred is dead right now. Damian and Tim have never been close (to say the least). Babs and Damian haven't interacted much. And I think its the same with Luke.
> 
> Dick though, has often been the parent for Damian, and a big influence on him reforming from being a child assassin.



People often love their relationship more than Bruce and Damian it often seems. It makes me wonder how Damian would take it if Dick had a kid. I know Batman Beyond he is hanging out with her.  I mean would it add anything? I know this can't be cannon.

----------


## Restingvoice

We know DC likes to reset character development every once in a while if there's a Damian reading order based only on the character development that makes sense, what would it be? Which one do you skip?

----------


## adrikito

I liked to see Bruce and Damian again during few pages in ROBIN 80th anniversary

----------


## Light of Justice

> We know DC likes to reset character development every once in a while if there's a Damian reading order based only on the character development that makes sense, what would it be? Which one do you skip?


I don't think I've ever skip any stories that involved Damian, but I think I will never re-read Teen Titan Damian with the old members (like Starfire, Raven, BB). Of course, also Lazarus Contract arc. I know there are many stories that ignore Damian's development but I think it hurt the most on those stories, because as a reader I can feel that Starfire, Raven, Garfield expect or at least want Damian to be like Dick or Tim. The problem is, no matter how far his development, Damian will never ever become as kind and compassionate as Dick or Tim. It's just not his nature, and to see Damian's character regression on Starfire and friends' eyes is just to hurtful for me. But I love his new TT teams! Man, they're different from goody kids like Beast Boy and Starfire, they're bunch of jerks! But Damian is a jerks himself! So I enjoy their interaction, fight, and turmoil, feels original for me.

----------


## shadow6743

I think Damian would be very happy to have a little sister. People forget but he met the version of Helena from Earth 2 and they called each other brother and sister. To the point that she visited Damian's grave when he died. Knowing he could have that relationship again with Helena would probably bring him closer to his family again.

----------


## AmiMizuno

Yea. You can still make a asshole likable. But Dc seems to be worried about going that way and go for making him more of a asshole. I do think Damian would also like a little sister. He is fine with Bruce having a kid. It’s just Dick he is more worried about. Why don’t they play with that. Dick is in a serious relationship

----------


## Yennefer

> Yea. You can still make a asshole likable. But Dc seems to be worried about going that way and go for making him more of a asshole. I do think Damian would also like a little sister. He is fine with Bruce having a kid. It’s just Dick he is more worried about. Why don’t they play with that. Dick is in a serious relationship


I kind of disagree with that. I think Bea is his gf, because she is something stable now that everything is so out of control. Dick can not commit to anyone romantically.  :Frown:  
And generally, writers always have some favourite... So I think once Dick is back, or once the NW changes writer Bea will change too...
Also... We have this misfortune to really like a mistreated character... So... Yeah, DC will still make him an asshole. I think he will be a cool Ra's or something similar... 
And he does have an issue with Bruce having a child. You can see it at the prelude of (at,for,in?) The wedding, when he fights "Aion" and Ra's. But I think he worries specifically for the possibility of having a brother, rather than having a sibling in general.....  :Smile:

----------


## Yennefer

Can you believe that the first ever fans of Batman are most probably   very very very old or dead? (Optimism at it's best)...
Or (I really don't know... I foolishly suppose there are only teens here) can you imagine that there are people who read comics for decades and still the story goes on? 
All this has me thinking if we have to reach an old age in order to see something we are waiting for.... Or, I wonder how old will we be when Damian will be an adult....
Dick stayed a kid for so many years.... What amazes me the most, however, is what the teens of 1939-40 would think about how all this evolved!

----------


## Restingvoice

> Can you believe that the first ever fans of Batman are most probably   very very very old or dead? (Optimism at it's best)...
> Or (I really don't know... I foolishly suppose there are only teens here) can you imagine that there are people who read comics for decades and still the story goes on? 
> All this has me thinking if we have to reach an old age in order to see something we are waiting for.... Or, I wonder how old will we be when Damian will be an adult....
> Dick stayed a kid for so many years.... What amazes me the most, however, is what the teens of 1939-40 would think about how all this evolved!


This forum actually consists of some of the oldest fans I know on the net, there's a middle-aged fan thread over at DC Comics subforum but it range from 30-something to 60-something

Idk if there's a fan that was there in the 40s though. The oldest I've seen are 60s kids.

----------


## dietrich

> We know DC likes to reset character development every once in a while if there's a Damian reading order based only on the character development that makes sense, what would it be? Which one do you skip?


Only two writer's have reset Damian and only in a minor way. Tomasi in Supersons and Percy in TT saying he doesn't have a friend thereby forgetting RDSOB and Streets of Gotham. Thankfully those are minor details in the overall arcs of both titles 

Damian is luckier than most character since writer generally have a good grasp on him. Even the writers who have never handled the Batverse like Orlando to brand new ones like Esposito get him.

I wouldn't skip any of Damian's reading because even the Titles that regressed him added to him.
The titles and story arc's that pushed him to his limits or had him do questionable thing's enriched the character adding to him complexity.

Damian has been tested and has faltered but Current Damian is on track [aside from the friend part]. His Character makes sense when one considers all his past stories. The only thing I would remove is Leviathan. That wasn't Damian. Nothing in his past would result in Damian who was that juvenile, talked about jason like that or was that stupid.

----------


## dietrich

> Yea. You can still make a asshole likable. *But Dc seems to be worried about going that way and go for making him more of a asshole.* I do think Damian would also like a little sister. He is fine with Bruce having a kid. It’s just Dick he is more worried about. Why don’t they play with that. Dick is in a serious relationship


Quite the bold statement for someone who knows so little about the character that they don't know why Damian is unlikely to reach out to Tim and Jason or why Dick and Damian have a stronger bond than Damian and the rest of his brothers.

Clearly you are mistaking Bruce for Damian. Bruce has become more of an arsehole Damian is the arsehole he's always been.

----------


## Yennefer

> Only two writer's have reset Damian and only in a minor way. Tomasi in Supersons and Percy in TT saying he doesn't have a friend thereby forgetting RDSOB and Streets of Gotham.
> 
> Damian is luckier than most character since writer generally have a good grasp on him. Even the writers who have never handled the Batverse like Orlando to brand new ones like Esposito get him


And Glass... The prison and the mind adjustment thing are a huge issue... 
Even if Batman did the first...

----------


## dietrich

> So this was probably the best place I could think to ask since my DCeased thread didn't really stay relevant, does anyone know if there exists cool fan art or commissions of Damian as Batman in DCeased?  All I can find is art of Black Canary as Green Lantern, or Green Canary, which is cool but I'd still like to see Damian art if possible.


I think I might have seen some somewhere. I'll keep an eye out. I think because that BatDamian looks so much like Bruce fans are not as inspired. They like the more Iconic and easy to recognise 666 Damian. 

Do you want them posted on the Dceased Thread if I come across any?

----------


## sifighter

> I think I might have seen some somewhere. I'll keep an eye out. I think because that BatDamian looks so much like Bruce fans are not as inspired. They like the more Iconic and easy to recognise 666 Damian. 
> 
> Do you want them posted on the Dceased Thread if I come across any?


No you can post it here, that thread is dead by now (pun not intended).

----------


## sifighter

edit: double post, sorry.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Only two writer's have reset Damian and only in a minor way. Tomasi in Supersons and Percy in TT saying he doesn't have a friend thereby forgetting RDSOB and Streets of Gotham. Thankfully those are minor details in the overall arcs of both titles 
> 
> Damian is luckier than most character since writer generally have a good grasp on him. Even the writers who have never handled the Batverse like Orlando to brand new ones like Esposito get him.
> 
> I wouldn't skip any of Damian's reading because even the Titles that regressed him added to him.
> The titles and story arc's that pushed him to his limits or had him do questionable thing's enriched the character adding to him complexity.
> 
> Damian has been tested and has faltered but Current Damian is on track [aside from the friend part]. His Character makes sense when one considers all his past stories. The only thing I would remove is Leviathan. That wasn't Damian. Nothing in his past would result in Damian who was that juvenile, talked about Jason like that or was that stupid.


The friendlessness thing is at the beginning so I know that much, but I'm glad there's not much more. 

It seems like to emphasize whoever the current friend is they erase the previous one for drama. That kinda reminds me of how some writers, when they introduce a new love interest to Dick, they undermine the previous one. Kori has been said to be just a fling or not actually loved when he's dating Barbara or Shawn, and Barbara said Dick actually want someone darker instead of her when he's with Helena. 

Wait they're saying that Damian didn't have friends in Super Sons even though Maya's right there at the beginning?  




> Bruce has become more of an arsehole 
> Damian is the arsehole he's always been.


I don't know why this sounds so funny XD

----------


## shadow6743

I have always had this view of Bruce that while I like reading his stories and I can admire his character for some traits. He is awful at admitting when he has made a mistake or that he is wrong. Damian throughout his history has made mistakes and will admit when he is wrong and his own flaws. Bruce never does that and it makes him unlikable and hypocritical. Damian can be an ahole but when he goes too far or makes a mistake he admits it. That's what makes me continue to read his stories even if he messes up.

----------


## Fergus

> I have always had this view of Bruce that while I like reading his stories and I can admire his character for some traits. He is awful at admitting when he has made a mistake or that he is wrong. Damian throughout his history has made mistakes and will admit when he is wrong and his own flaws. Bruce never does that and it makes him unlikable and hypocritical. Damian can be an ahole but when he goes too far or makes a mistake he admits it. That's what makes me continue to read his stories even if he messes up.


This could be down to age. Bruce is older, set in his ways and is less used to being challenged so it's harder for him to admit when he is wrong and also harder for him to change.

Damian's youth works in his favour. You have hope that he can grow and because we've already seen substantial growth from him. From assassin to hero we are sure that it will all end up good for him.

I root for him because he really does try and he's funny to read.
Bruce you know there's not going to be ant consequences and he's not about to change which zaps some of my enthusiasm.

----------


## adrikito

> And Glass... The prison and the mind adjustment thing are a huge issue... 
> Even if Batman did the first...


Still better than what Supersons did with him.

----------


## Fergus

> Still better than what Supersons did with him.


What! One made him into a villain who subjects others to the same thing his mother and grandfather did to him

Nerfed him to the point that Jason Todd was able to defeat him 

Twisted him to the point that he was willing to take a guy who wasn't as skilled, smart or proven as himself or as capable as a mentor. 

Turned him into a would be suicide bomber

The other [SS] made him a straight man at the centre of the joke.
Come on man TT did far more damage. There's no comparison.
TT is the lowest Damian has ever been taken and that includes Ian Wayne the brown haired White kid from the zoom titles.

----------


## Godlike13

Damian might be a brat about Bruce and Selina having a kid, but once the kid is there he should be protective of her. Damian has a fondness for innocence, something he never had, we see this in how he is towards animals.

----------


## Korath

> What! One made him into a villain who subjects others to the same thing his mother and grandfather did to him
> 
> Nerfed him to the point that Jason Todd was able to defeat him 
> 
> Twisted him to the point that he was willing to take a guy who wasn't as skilled, smart or proven as himself or as capable as a mentor. 
> 
> Turned him into a would be suicide bomber
> 
> The other [SS] made him a straight man at the centre of the joke.
> ...


Let's agree to disagree. I find that SS is far more disrespectful of Damian than Glass' runb, by far. At least, Glass doesn't make him a pathetic joke here to show how great the son of Superman is compared to the Son of Batman. 

And all the things you list makes far more sense than him going around the fucking multi/universe with Jon as if nothing happened, once every week.

You're also selling Jason far too short. The Red Hood is extremely skilled and capable as a mentor, and since Damian thought other means that his father's to deal with criminal, it was only natural that, Dick being unavailable for cause of Ric virus, Jason would be the go to, because he's been advocating for years that Batman's approach is wrong-headed. And unlike Talia and Ra's, Damian in TT wants the villains stopped so people stop suffering. He doesn't want to make them weapons for his use, he wants to save lives.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Let's agree to disagree. I find that SS is far more disrespectful of Damian than Glass' runb, by far. At least, Glass doesn't make him a pathetic joke here to show how great the son of Superman is compared to the Son of Batman. 
> 
> And all the things you list makes far more sense than him going around the fucking multi/universe with Jon as if nothing happened, once every week.
> 
> You're also selling Jason far too short. The Red Hood is extremely skilled and capable as a mentor, and since Damian thought other means that his father's to deal with criminal, it was only natural that, Dick being unavailable for cause of Ric virus, Jason would be the go to, because he's been advocating for years that Batman's approach is wrong-headed. And unlike Talia and Ra's, Damian in TT wants the villains stopped so people stop suffering. He doesn't want to make them weapons for his use, he wants to save lives.


The Super Sons story in the Robins special was actually about how great a friend Damian was to Jon. So...

----------


## adrikito

> What! One made him into a villain who subjects others to the same thing his mother and grandfather did to him
> 
> Nerfed him to the point that Jason Todd was able to defeat him 
> 
> Twisted him to the point that he was willing to take a guy who wasn't as skilled, smart or proven as himself or as capable as a mentor. 
> 
> Turned him into a would be suicide bomber
> 
> The other [SS] made him a straight man at the centre of the joke.
> ...


NERFED? I will thought that he is nerfed losing against Tim... Lose against Jason is not terrible.. He was batman villain before N52 when Damian started with Dick.. Jason is more skilled than Damian.

*More damage? I feel that TTs is at least something like one Batman comic. More serious. 

Not turned him into a joke and made the people desire him with Superkid. Someone that the only that made is give him what the Joker calls A BAD DAY in probably EVERY ISSUE..*

For good or bad what he made with these villains is not terrible.. Erase his desire to Hurt people and making them live normal lifes..

Batman had the Joker in one personal prison too in METAL.




> Let's agree to disagree. I find that SS is far more disrespectful of Damian than Glass' runb, by far. At least, Glass doesn't make him a pathetic joke here to show how great the son of Superman is compared to the Son of Batman. 
> 
> And all the things you list makes far more sense than him going around the fucking multi/universe with Jon as if nothing happened, once every week.
> 
> You're also selling Jason far too short. The Red Hood is extremely skilled and capable as a mentor, and since Damian thought other means that his father's to deal with criminal, it was only natural that, Dick being unavailable for cause of Ric virus, Jason would be the go to, because he's been advocating for years that Batman's approach is wrong-headed. And unlike Talia and Ra's, Damian in TT wants the villains stopped so people stop suffering. He doesn't want to make them weapons for his use, he wants to save lives.


I am with you..

Be defeated for Jason? OK.. Is almost like be defeated for Dick.. Is not a terrible thing.

YEAH.. I left SS when I thought that it was excessive this comic bad trait with him transforming him in one pathetic old man while superkid was enjoying it to push him apart during some issues and making him a joke..

----------


## Light of Justice

> NERFED? I will thought that he is nerfed losing against Tim... Lose against Jason is not terrible.. He was batman villain before N52 when Damian started with Dick.. Jason is more skilled than Damian.
> 
> *More damage? I feel that TTs is at least something like one Batman comic. More serious. 
> 
> Not turned him into a joke and made the people desire him with Superkid. Someone that the only that made is give him what the Joker calls A BAD DAY in probably EVERY ISSUE..*
> 
> For good or bad what he made with these villains is not terrible.. Erase his desire to Hurt people and making them live normal lifes..
> 
> Batman had the Joker in one personal prison too in METAL.
> ...



I love SS, but yeah they seem like to put Jon on spotlight as good cop when Damian became bad cop. Ironically, Jiminez said that when hw was signing Super Sons books and drawing a quick sketch of the characters for fans, he asked: Damian or Jon? And 80% percent fans said that they want Damian one. What I love from SS is their snarky banter..... until I knew better about the full power of Damian's snark talk. The same power who immensely annoyed Deathstoke, Supergirl, and many more. You guys are right, SS Damian was extremely watered down. Lucky Jon for that small mercy.

And didn't Jason always stronger than Damian? I mean come on, he's the biggest of bat boys, and Damian is the smallest. No matter what anime and any child hero media say, size is important on fight. Damian is my favourite, but I think it's strange if Jason lose.

----------


## Light of Justice

And I want to ask something about this panel.
RCO014_1584522841.jpg

Soo Emiko like KF? It's fine by me, and I am also not DamixEmiko shipper, but I can't help but feel strange. I mean, yeah it's understandable if Emi's fear and guilt related to Deathstroke, because she's the one who killed him recently (even though I think image of her own mother is more fitting). The problem is, why on her illusion Deathstroke threatened KF? Sure, Deathstroke once stole KF's speed power, but on the time of DS's murder, KF barely there. The one whom DS faced is Damian. And Emi shot him because she didn't want Damian to kill (or at least that's my interpretation). Emi loves KF, fine, but it's weird that KF appear on Emi's dream about Deathstroke when Emi shot Deathstroke for Damian. And I don't think Deathstroke gave any implication that he wanted to kill KF, hell after what happened on Lazarus Contract if Deathstroke want to kill Teen Titans, perhaps he will spare KF (because he gave Deathstroke little time with his son) and kill Damian first. And Deathstroke's taunt about eventually Emiko will kill the one she love, while holding KF's corpse? Why must Deathstroke, not her mother? Deathstroke never taunt her like that, the one he taunt is Damian, and that's about Damian can't bring himself to activated Terminus protocol because he was weakened and 'corrupted' by Bruce. I'm just.. confused. 

And I think this pairing came out of nowhere? I recalled all of their interaction, and I don't remember any romantic hint (unlike DamianxDjinn or CrushxDjiin). What I remembered, when KF knew about secret prison, Emi felt annoyed, KF declaration that he was not raised by assassin and Emi's answer that he was abandoned by one instead. Emi's irritated remark whenever KF and Roundhouse started their trash talk. Emi yelled at KF because he disturbed her sleep. Perhaps when they were about to be drowned by The Other? But they only held each other hands, and I thought that's because Crush is hopeless case on there and not the type to hold hands (except Djinn's). And there were only three of them on that hole, Damian faced The Other, Djinn imprisoned on her ring, and RH came later. But I admit as an asexual and perhaps aromantic person, romance is not my forte (that's why I'm not impressed of Bruce and Selina arc). So perhaps there are hint that I overlook, or they're hinted on different comic title?

----------


## Digifiend

They don't appear together outside of Teen Titans. There's no Green Arrow book, which is normally the other place Emiko would appear, and while Wallace does appear in The Flash, there he's recently been working alongside Avery Ho, the Flash of China (from New Super-Man's Justice League of China team, though she did actually debut in Flash first), so if anyone's been hinted as a partner for him there, it's her.

----------


## Yennefer

Hello, again  :Smile: 
Can I ask a question?
I know JLD2 is the end of DCAMU, but is there any rumor about a third TT movie? Something about it is said that has been heard, but I haven't found anything on the net.  
Maybe a project for something that took place before Apokolips War etc... 
Do you know anything about it?🙃

----------


## dietrich

> Hello, again 
> Can I ask a question?
> I know JLD2 is the end of DCAMU, but is there any rumor about a third TT movie? Something about it is said that has been heard, but I haven't found anything on the net.  
> Maybe a project for something that took place before Apokolips War etc... 
> Do you know anything about it?


the 3rd Tt movie isn't and was never Damian or set in that shared animated universe from all I've seen it's follows Dick and the more iconic TT team from Go.

I did a search and there wasn't anything official. Just random sites talking about the 3rd movie with pics of the OG tt team.

I haven't even seen anything official on JLD2 being the end of the shared universe.

----------


## dietrich

> He was batman villain before N52 when Damian started with Dick.. *Jason is more skilled than Damian.
> *
> 
> 
> I am with you..
> 
> Be defeated for Jason? OK.. Is almost like be defeated for Dick.. Is not a terrible thing.


can you back this up with factual evidence from the comics?

i don't even think Jason has the time on the field that Damian has not to mention half the skills that Damian has.
Blackest Knight established that Damian just like Bruce is skilled in more than a 100 MA techs as Batman [or something along those lines. If anyone has the exact line please correct]

While Jason was still in the ground Damian was the world's greatest assassin the world never knew [RSOB] 

It's not about what is terrible but about what is canon, about what skills they have and what's been established.

----------


## Yennefer

> I haven't even seen anything official on JLD2 being the end of the shared universe.


It is said (in the sneak peak) that this movie isn't designed to have a sequel... And it is logical to be the last dcamu movie, because so many heroes will die and it won't be the same. It would be like a bunch of movies with a dead Dick Grayson f.e....or Batman (if he dies)...
Thank you so much for answering about the TT rumors... 🙂🙃

----------


## dietrich

> It is said (in the sneak peak) that this movie isn't designed to have a sequel... And it is logical to be the last dcamu movie, because so many heroes will die and it won't be the same. It would be like a bunch of movies with a dead Dick Grayson f.e....or Batman (if he dies)...
> Thank you so much for answering about the TT rumors...


yeah you have a point. I'm hoping than the dead heroes come back or the world resets but retains a lot of what they already have set up in the current universe.

I want some new characters to be introduced but i also like Damian being a older etc.

----------


## Katana500

> And I want to ask something about this panel.
> Attachment 94809
> 
> Soo Emiko like KF?


It is a wee bit strange. I feel like Wally and Emiko do not really have all that much in common. Though I guess the saying is 'opposites attract'. 

I feel like if they wanted a love triangle. Instead of Damian, Djinn and Crush. It should have been Damian, Djinn and Emiko. It'd make more sense for Emiko to have feelings for Damian since most of her actions seem to be to save him.  She threatens and eventually kills Deathstroke to save Damian and she has consistently been the only one really committed to his cause.

I'm not sure how such a change would effect the entire run but I feel like overall it would work better - would have been less of Crush's annoying jealous rages which is a plus.  Emiko would have definitely been alot more subtle about liking Damian than Crush was for Djinn thats for sure.

----------


## Katana500

> yeah you have a point. I'm hoping than the dead heroes come back or the world resets but retains a lot of what they already have set up in the current universe.
> 
> I want some new characters to be introduced but i also like Damian being a older etc.


I reckon it'll reset into a Rebirth Movie universe. Can keep the things people like, change the things they don't and add in characters who were forgotton i.e Tim, Jason or Jon.

----------


## Aahz

> can you back this up with factual evidence from the comics?


Jason has also got training by teachers Talia got for him, and was on top of this sofar the only Human that got ever trained by the All Caste.




> i don't even think Jason has the time on the field that Damian has not to mention half the skills that Damian has.
> 
> While Jason was still in the ground Damian was the world's greatest assassin the world never knew [RSOB]


I doubt that, the timinline is here of course a little bit screwed up because we are mixing here pre and post flash point, but Damian doesn't met Batman untill after Under the Red Hood, and Jason had several Years of training before that, so he was definitely out of the Ground way before Damian started his Year of Blood.
And Jason was of course in the field as Robin before, and did some stuff during his training and as part of the All Caste.
In the current continuity we know at least fought some kind of Monster for the All Caste and was active in Hongkong before Under the Red Hood.





> Blackest Knight established that Damian just like Bruce is skilled in more than a 100 MA techs as Batman [or something along those lines. If anyone has the exact line please correct]


That's probably true for all Batfamily members.

----------


## Katana500

speaking of Teen Titans did we ever find out who released the villians?

I remember Deathstroke said it was a member of Damian's team but did we ever learn who?

----------


## dietrich

> Jason has also got training by teachers Talia got for him, and was on top of this sofar the only Human that got ever trained by the All Caste.
> 
> I doubt that, the timinline is here of course a little bit screwed up because we are mixing here pre and post flash point, but Damian doesn't met Batman untill after Under the Red Hood, and Jason had several Years of training before that, so he was definitely out of the Ground way before Damian started his Year of Blood.
> And Jason was of course in the field as Robin before, and did some stuff during his training and as part of the All Caste.
> In the current continuity we know at least fought some kind of Monster for the All Caste and was active in Hongkong before Under the Red Hood.
> 
> 
> That's probably true for all Batfamily members.


Training that Talia got him and All caste training don't make him more skilled also how long this this training last? 

How old is Jason currently?
How old was he when he died and when he became Robin and how long has he been back?

Damian had his 1st kill at age 3 so he has like 9-10 years intense training unlike even batman had to endure.
How long has jason had on the field [this means after Robin training and after he came back, got better, got trained]

that is not true for any of the bats since non of them spent even a fraction of the time Bruce spent training. It takes times to master one skill before moving on to another. It also takes time to condition a body that isn't used to rigorous training and routine to adapt. 

Probably isn't the same as stated in story like in Damian's case.

You are correct that the Timeline is all over the place which is why I'm looking for definite. I actually don't know the maths when it comes to Jason.

Objectively speaking Jason isn't anywhere as skilled [skills not just combat, marksmanship etc] as Damian. Combat wise, marksmanship and all that I'm not sure. Logically Jason should be better but the evidence doesn't support it which is why I'm trying to get some duration and stuff down

----------


## dietrich

> speaking of Teen Titans did we ever find out who released the villians?
> 
> I remember Deathstroke said it was a member of Damian's team but did we ever learn who?


Wasn't it Round House?

----------


## dietrich

> It is a wee bit strange. I feel like Wally and Emiko do not really have all that much in common. Though I guess the saying is 'opposites attract'. 
> 
> I feel like if they wanted a love triangle. Instead of Damian, Djinn and Crush. It should have been Damian, Djinn and Emiko. It'd make more sense for Emiko to have feelings for Damian since most of her actions seem to be to save him.  She threatens and eventually kills Deathstroke to save Damian and she has consistently been the only one really committed to his cause.
> 
> I'm not sure how such a change would effect the entire run but I feel like overall it would work better - would have been less of Crush's annoying jealous rages which is a plus.  Emiko would have definitely been alot more subtle about liking Damian than Crush was for Djinn thats for sure.


Wallace is the Loverman of this TT generation. 1st Raven now Emi.

Emiko can't have feeling for Damian when she's crushing big time on Nightwing

----------


## Light of Justice

> It is a wee bit strange. I feel like Wally and Emiko do not really have all that much in common. Though I guess the saying is 'opposites attract'. 
> 
> I feel like if they wanted a love triangle. Instead of Damian, Djinn and Crush. It should have been Damian, Djinn and Emiko. It'd make more sense for Emiko to have feelings for Damian since most of her actions seem to be to save him.  She threatens and eventually kills Deathstroke to save Damian and she has consistently been the only one really committed to his cause.
> 
> I'm not sure how such a change would effect the entire run but I feel like overall it would work better - would have been less of Crush's annoying jealous rages which is a plus.  Emiko would have definitely been alot more subtle about liking Damian than Crush was for Djinn thats for sure.


Sigh.. can we have a story about teen without love triangle? Like seriously? Don't they have any different ideas?
On my opinion, I don't want Emiko to have any romantic relationship, be it with Damian or with Kid Flash or even with Roundhouse. I mean, isn't she the one who once said that romance relationship between teammates is a bad idea? And also, if Emiko with KF, and Damian-Djinn-Crush have love triangle (even though I don't think Damian give any care about it) what about RoundHouse? I don't really like his character but I'm sick of 'fat boy character who doesn't get any girl and his only role is to be comedic relief' plot.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Wallace is the Loverman of this TT generation. 1st Raven now Emi.
> 
> Emiko can't have feeling for Damian when she's crushing big time on Nightwing


I think what happened between Emiko and Damian is 'mutual respect' and 'empathy' because of their similar upbringing. On this TT group aside Damian I think only Emiko who give a damn focus on their mission and goal. She's the one who said romance between teammate is liability, she's the one who point out that Damian's act is silly when about Djinn, she's the one who stops KF and RoundHouse trash talk. I think she is the mature one on the group. I don't say that having crush makes you immature, but I'm afraid that Emiko will lose her sense of logic and become devoted to Kid Flash like Crush to Djinn.

----------


## Aahz

> You are correct that the Timeline is all over the place which is why I'm looking for definite.


Arguments based on the time line make anyway not much sense, if we going by the new 52, Damains age was accelerated, and he would have been technically born at best 5 years before Flashpoint. And I'm not sure is that's still supposed be canon or not.




> Objectively speaking Jason isn't anywhere as skilled [skills not just combat, marksmanship etc] as Damian.


The skill levels (when we are talking about non crimefighting skills) they give Damian in some comics are are anyway even by Batman comic standards completely absurd, and I find it really hard to take them serious.





> I actually don't know the maths when it comes to Jason.


 That's anyway all over the place, in the current continuity it is not even really clear how old he is. And the math about how much time passed between DITF and UTTH never really worked.

Based on pre Flashpoint he became imo Robin at a similar age as Dick, was with Bruce for about two years before he died, and has trained at least two years before Under the Red Hood. And Under the Red Hood happend before the OYL time jump and Damian appeared first after the time jump.

----------


## Katana500

> Sigh.. can we have a story about teen without love triangle? Like seriously? Don't they have any different ideas?
> On my opinion, I don't want Emiko to have any romantic relationship, be it with Damian or with Kid Flash or even with Roundhouse. I mean, isn't she the one who once said that romance relationship between teammates is a bad idea? And also, if Emiko with KF, and Damian-Djinn-Crush have love triangle (even though I don't think Damian give any care about it) what about RoundHouse? I don't really like his character but I'm sick of 'fat boy character who doesn't get any girl and his only role is to be comedic relief' plot.


I'm not a massive fan of love triangles either. But if we had to have one, I think their could have been more interesting options.

Roundhouse would have been a suprising choice for a pairing. I couldn't really imagine him paired with anyone, but that could have made it an interesting dynamic.

I'm feeling sad that this team is probably going to end soon. Because I feel like if it had a long run. we could really see the dynamics between characters develop.

----------


## Katana500

> I think what happened between Emiko and Damian is 'mutual respect' and 'empathy' because of their similar upbringing. On this TT group aside Damian I think only Emiko who give a damn focus on their mission and goal. She's the one who said romance between teammate is liability, she's the one who point out that Damian's act is silly when about Djinn, she's the one who stops KF and RoundHouse trash talk. I think she is the mature one on the group. I don't say that having crush makes you immature, but I'm afraid that Emiko will lose her sense of logic and become devoted to Kid Flash like Crush to Djinn.


I'm not sure Emiko ever liked Damian. But it was kinda hinted that he liked her in the previous run. Enough to visit her in hospital and too blush when she kissed him which is pretty unusual for Damian.

Could have had him like her, and her want to focus on the mission. Still think that would be more interesting.

----------


## Yennefer

Well... Isn't Damian younger than Emiko? And in years that the age difference is very fond? It is different to be 13 and 15 than 30 and 32... If, for example, Damian is 13-14 and Emi 15-16... It is normal to look for someone closer at her age at this age... Because as mature as Damian is, he may seem a child to her... And that's not so romantic or """attractive""" ...(that sounded stereotypical, I don't know how to describe it without offending anyone). So it makes sense for her to have a crush at KF. 
Also... Do you remember when emi was possessed by Deathstroke's son (or whatever he is) and there was a cringy scene between damian and emi? I cant understand/decide what that was...
I was devided between seeing a twisted romance scene or a sceen similar to a mother-son moment....
Could someone comment on this? I just remembered it.

And yeah... It would be very strange to put Emi with Damian when she was crushing on his brother...
What would be really cool is her being exactly at the same age as his... Then they would be explosive.


But generally we can all conclude that DC is starting giving Damian love interests and that they are past with his child phase. So we may have an essential love interest with him soon (?)

----------


## Light of Justice

> I'm not a massive fan of love triangles either. But if we had to have one, I think their could have been more interesting options.
> 
> Roundhouse would have been a suprising choice for a pairing. I couldn't really imagine him paired with anyone, but that could have made it an interesting dynamic.
> 
> I'm feeling sad that this team is probably going to end soon. Because I feel like if it had a long run. we could really see the dynamics between characters develop.



I think TT will run longer than we expected. Sure, from TT 42 solicitation it sounds like this team in the verge of breaking up, but we had the same prediction when Deathstroke arc solicitation came out. Isn't The Other escaped when Damian took The Book of Damned? He's like the big bad of this group, I don't think they will disband before they catch him. And there's still so much arc potential, like battle with Emiko's mom, or search for Crush's mom. I myself look forward to Teen Titans second battle with The Other, especially now Damian know that The Other is Heretic, his murderer and his clone brother.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Well... Isn't Damian younger than Emiko? And in years that the age difference is very fond? It is different to be 13 and 15 than 30 and 32... If, for example, Damian is 13-14 and Emi 15-16... It is normal to look for someone closer at her age at this age... Because as mature as Damian is, he may seem as a child to her... And that's not so romantic...(that sounded stereotypical). So it makes sense to me for her to have a crush at KF. 
> Also... Do you remember when emi was possessed by Deathstroke's son (or whatever he is) and there was a cringy scene between damian and emi? I cant understand/decide what that was...
> I was devided between seeing a twisted romance scene or a sceen similar to a mother-son moment.... 
> Could someone comment on this? I just remembered it.


I also think it's fine if Emiko has crush on KF. Heck, I don't really want her to have crush on Damian when he's still in the middle of Djinn-Crush love triangle. I just feel confused, because there's barely or even no hint about them, suddenly Emiko went to hell and 'welcome to hell! Now let us see your deepest fear and guilt! Oh, it turns out that you feel guilt of Deathstroke murder, and you're afraid of him because he threatened you with KF! But why? Deathstroke and KF don't have any connection except when KF lend his speedpower, but you weren't even there on that time! Oh, you're afraid that you will kill KF, because deep on your heart you love him! Despite the fact that you barely had any interaction with him, barely had any fight with him except about secret prison when you didn't hesitate to tell your loved one that he's abandoned by his villain relative? Congratulations! Now you're aware that you're in love with Kid Flash!'. When I read that panel I was like the heck? Am I really that aromatic or this pairing really came out of nowhere? Just because they're a pair boy and girl, and they're on similar age?
Mother and son.. I think it's more like big sis and lil brother moment for me.. When Emi touch Damian's chin and lifted his head, it remind me of big sis  faced her lil brother who feel ashamed, and lift his head so she can look him in the eyes and comfort him. But yeah, I am extremely insensitive when it comes to romance. 
Deathstroke's son name is Jericho, he's precious soul just like his other siblings who are unfortunate enough to have Deathstroke as his father, whom has reputation for likes to play with other people's child. 




> And yeah... It would be very strange to put Emi with Damian when she was crushing on his brother...
> What would be really cool is her being exactly at the same age as his... Then they would be explosive.
> 
> 
> But generally we can all conclude that DC is starting giving Damian love interests and that they are past with his child phase. So we may have an essential love interest with him soon (?)


Ahh.. DC already started to give him pointless crush like Katana, Emiko, and Djinn. Glad that he dropped all of them fast and focus on his mission and ambitions. But I must accept that he will hit his puberty soon and DC will hint him with many girls, just like his father and brothers. As much as I want it, he will not stay as kid forever.

----------


## Katana500

> Well... Isn't Damian younger than Emiko? And in years that the age difference is very fond? It is different to be 13 and 15 than 30 and 32... If, for example, Damian is 13-14 and Emi 15-16... It is normal to look for someone closer at her age at this age... Because as mature as Damian is, he may seem a child to her... And that's not so romantic or """attractive""" ...(that sounded stereotypical, I don't know how to describe it without offending anyone). So it makes sense for her to have a crush at KF.


I swear Damian and Emiko were the same age and size before. Idk what happened but with the new run she just had a massive growth spurt and gained two years on him. 




> Also... Do you remember when emi was possessed by Deathstroke's son (or whatever he is) and there was a cringy scene between damian and emi? I cant understand/decide what that was...
> I was devided between seeing a twisted romance scene or a sceen similar to a mother-son moment....
> Could someone comment on this? I just remembered it.


Oh yeah I remember that. I was a bit confused by what was going on. At first I thought she was going to kiss him or something then she just punched him in the face. My only explanation is that Jericho thought she was dating Damian when he possessed her, which was why she was acting wierd.





> But generally we can all conclude that DC is starting giving Damian love interests and that they are past with his child phase. So we may have an essential love interest with him soon (?)


I agree with you that DC are starting to give Damian a love interest. I think its only a matter of time before he gains his definitive love interest. Similiar to Tim with Steph or Dick with Starfire or Batgirl.

----------


## Katana500

> Ahh.. DC already started to give him pointless crush like Katana, Emiko, and Djinn. Glad that he dropped all of them fast and focus on his mission and ambitions. But I must accept that he will hit his puberty soon and DC will hint him with many girls, just like his father and brothers. As much as I want it, he will not stay as kid forever.


I really hope they just give him one love interest and stick with it. I don't really mind who it is. But I'd much rather Damian be committed to one person than having loads of different ones. That just causes problems or leads to a situation like Dick where their is shipping wars and things never end up developed cause DC don't know who he should end up with.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I really hope they just give him one love interest and stick with it. I don't really mind who it is. But I'd much rather Damian be committed to one person than having loads of different ones. That just causes problems or leads to a situation like Dick where their is shipping wars and things never end up developed cause DC don't know who he should end up with.


well, unlike Dick Damian doesn't exactly has attitude who will attract many girls, and he's extremely committed and and loyal when it comes to someone's important, so I don't think he will have so many love interest like Dick. But on the other hand Bruce has more or less same attitude like Damian, and he's still shipped with many women. I hope DC doesn't run Damian's romance journey recklessly.

----------


## dietrich

> Arguments based on the time line make anyway not much sense, if we going by the new 52, Damains age was accelerated, and he would have been technically born at best 5 years before Flashpoint. And I'm not sure is that's still supposed be canon or not.
> 
> The skill levels (when we are talking about non crimefighting skills) they give Damian in some comics are are anyway even by Batman comic standards completely absurd, and I find it really hard to take them serious.
> 
> 
>  That's anyway all over the place, in the current continuity it is not even really clear how old he is. And the math about how much time passed between DITF and UTTH never really worked.
> 
> Based on pre Flashpoint he became imo Robin at a similar age as Dick, was with Bruce for about two years before he died, and has trained at least two years before Under the Red Hood. And Under the Red Hood happend before the OYL time jump and Damian appeared first after the time jump.


I wasn't going off the new 52 time line of 5 Robins in 5years because that is out in Rebirth.

lots of comics in Rebirth already contradict new 52 not just for Damian but for other Robins.

So 2+2+1. 5 years at least.

Damian's abilities are absurd. I believe it's a parody of the batman can do everything trope.

However Cass and Damian are different due to their training regime.
Jason went from street urchin to on the field Robin in two years meaning that batman's training is a at a very very low level basics compared to what we see from the Loa and Cain.

----------


## dietrich

> well, unlike Dick Damian doesn't exactly has attitude who will attract many girls, and he's extremely committed and and loyal when it comes to someone's important, so I don't think he will have so many love interest like Dick. But on the other hand Bruce has more or less same attitude like Damian, and he's still shipped with many women. I hope DC doesn't run Damian's romance journey recklessly.


Agreed. I don't see Damian having lots of love interest

----------


## dietrich

> I also think it's fine if Emiko has crush on KF. Heck, I don't really want her to have crush on Damian when he's still in the middle of Djinn-Crush love triangle. I just feel confused, because there's barely or even no hint about them, suddenly Emiko went to hell and 'welcome to hell! Now let us see your deepest fear and guilt! Oh, it turns out that you feel guilt of Deathstroke murder, and you're afraid of him because he threatened you with KF! But why? Deathstroke and KF don't have any connection except when KF lend his speedpower, but you weren't even there on that time! Oh, you're afraid that you will kill KF, because deep on your heart you love him! Despite the fact that you barely had any interaction with him, barely had any fight with him except about secret prison when you didn't hesitate to tell your loved one that he's abandoned by his villain relative? Congratulations! Now you're aware that you're in love with Kid Flash!'. When I read that panel I was like the heck? Am I really that aromatic or this pairing really came out of nowhere? Just because they're a pair boy and girl, and they're on similar age?
> Mother and son.. I think it's more like big sis and lil brother moment for me.. When Emi touch Damian's chin and lifted his head, it remind me of big sis  faced her lil brother who feel ashamed, and lift his head so she can look him in the eyes and comfort him. But yeah, I am extremely insensitive when it comes to romance. 
> Deathstroke's son name is Jericho, he's precious soul just like his other siblings who are unfortunate enough to have Deathstroke as his father, whom has reputation for likes to play with other people's child. 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh.. DC already started to give him pointless crush like Katana, Emiko, and Djinn. Glad that he dropped all of them fast and focus on his mission and ambitions. But I must accept that he will hit his puberty soon and DC will hint him with many girls, just like his father and brothers. As much as I want it, he will not stay as kid forever.


Damian in canon has only ever had a crush on Emiko. A mild crush that if it wasn't for the writer saying so on social media we would have missed it 
Katana and Djinn are fans reading into things

----------


## CPSparkles

Tom Taylor wishing to write more Damian makes my heart happy.

https://twitter.com/TomTaylorMade/st...37999009726465

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/chrome_se7en

----------


## CPSparkles

https://doc-squash.tumblr.com

----------


## adrikito

Damian is right.. Despite is boring be in home.. Stupid coronavirus

----------


## Aahz

> I wasn't going off the new 52 time line of 5 Robins in 5years because that is out in Rebirth.


But is the speeded up ageing out? If you really go by the original Comics, Batman and Thalia met the first time in the Bronze Age, at this point Dick was already 18 and in collage.
If "Son of the Demon" is roughly set around the same time as the ongoing Batman comics at the time, Damian was born around the time when Jason was Robin.





> However Cass and Damian are different due to their training regime.
> Jason went from street urchin to on the field Robin in two years meaning that batman's training is a at a very very low level basics compared to what we see from the Loa and Cain.


 I find it still questionable how effective it is to start with Training at such a young age.
On the other hand, if you consider all the absurd stuff Damian learned at that age, than two years of training by Batman are probably also much more than just "very very low level basics", it doesn't really make much sense to apply "realism" to the training of one Batkid and ignore it with the other.

----------


## CPSparkles

Tim Damian and Jason by Doc Squash

https://doc-squash.tumblr.com





Jason “What’s he so mad about? He had like eight dollars.”

----------


## dietrich

> But is the speeded up ageing out? If you really go by the original Comics, Batman and Thalia met the first time in the Bronze Age, at this point Dick was already 18 and in collage.
> If "Son of the Demon" is roughly set around the same time as the ongoing Batman comics at the time, Damian was born around the time when Jason was Robin.
> 
> 
>  I find it still questionable how effective it is to start with Training at such a young age.
> On the other hand, if you consider all the absurd stuff Damian learned at that age, than two years of training by Batman are probably also much more than just "very very low level basics", it doesn't really make much sense to apply "realism" to the training of one Batkid and ignore it with the other.


The accelerated ageing is out and the last Time line we were given has Damian being born the year Tim became Robin which lines up with your logic.

Damian isn't normal. he was genetically enhanced so what's possible for him isn't the same for bruce and the other Robins.

Even if he wasn't are you trying to compare the intensity or level of training that the Robins received to what Cass and Damian endured [because that is the only correct word]

Dude come on. Ive never read about the Robins having to master being alert whilst sleeping because bodyguards were offered incentives to kill you .

I'm not applying realism you are forgetting that it's canon that Talia tampered with Damian in vitro in her quest to create a perfect human.

This is before we take into account the upgrades he had later in life like that unbreakable spine

batman's training never pushed the Robins to the limits that Cain and the loa did.

Batman is abusive and does questionable things [especially recently] but he never went that far

----------


## dietrich

> Damian is right.. Despite is boring be in home.. Stupid coronavirus


Hope you are keeping safe.

----------


## CPSparkles

I think Dick most likely has the same level of training as Bats just based on how long he has been active and a bat.
Didn't it take Batman years to master the techniques he has no way the untrained Robins-to-be had that time to master the same skills.
Tim also might be close being with batman so long.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Damian is right.. Despite is boring be in home.. Stupid coronavirus


I'm bored as well  :Frown:  but it's better to be bored than sick

----------


## Fergus

> Tom Taylor wishing to write more Damian makes my heart happy.
> 
> https://twitter.com/TomTaylorMade/st...37999009726465


I'm not sure how his Suicide Squad book is doing sales wise but if he keeps making money for Dc then they might reward him with a title of his choice.

Surprised it's not Harley.

I wouldn't mind a Damian and harley team up.
If WB and AT&T are calling the shots then it might matter how well comics sell since they are not the most lucrative

----------


## Jackalope89

> I'm bored as well  but it's better to be bored than sick


Meh. I've been basically stuck since January 7th because of ankle surgery. The rest of the world is now just joining me.

----------


## Yennefer

> Ahh.. DC already started to give him pointless crush like Katana, Emiko, and Djinn. Glad that he dropped all of them fast and focus on his mission and ambitions. But I must accept that he will hit his puberty soon and DC will hint him with many girls, just like his father and brothers. As much as I want it, he will not stay as kid forever.


I just want him a teenager. For ever and ever.  :Stick Out Tongue:   :Smile: 




> I swear Damian and Emiko were the same age and size before. Idk what happened but with the new run she just had a massive growth spurt and gained two years on him.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I don't know why, but I found it hilarious! xD #FansConfuson... SO relatable!





> I agree with you that DC are starting to give Damian a love interest. I think its only a matter of time before he gains his definitive love interest. Similiar to Tim with Steph or Dick with Starfire or Batgirl.



With the rythm the whole plot goes, I hope we will live to that day...! Hopefully in this decade! xD  :Wink:  (I am waiting for Damian's and Djinn's kiss for a year.... xD ).......




> Agreed. I don't see Damian having lots of love interest


While it is a bit dissapointing, because it won't be as much fun as it is with the rest of the batboys and their romances, it is better... Imagine to have another "Barbara vs Starfire" war....
Also... Do you think (apart from Raven, Emiko and Djinn) that Damian will be attracted only to criminals or women similar to Selina?




> Damian in canon has only ever had a crush on Emiko. A mild crush that if it wasn't for the writer saying so on social media we would have missed it 
> Katana and Djinn are fans reading into things


You mean Djinn isn't an actual crush or that it is a ship that is given to the fans ready?

----------


## Light of Justice

> While it is a bit dissapointing, because it won't be as much fun as it is with the rest of the batboys and their romances, it is better... Imagine to have another "Barbara vs Starfire" war....
> Also... Do you think (apart from Raven, Emiko and Djinn) that Damian will be attracted only to criminals or women similar to Selina?


Don't think so. Unlike Bruce Damian doesn't have any sympathy for criminals, even kid or woman criminals.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I just want him a teenager. For ever and ever.


Me too. Even though adult Damian Al-Ghul is not bad  :Stick Out Tongue:  Green suits him so much. I hope when or if Damian graduates from Robin and pick his own hero (or maybe antihero) identity, his costume will have green themed.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Me too. Even though adult Damian Al-Ghul is not bad  Green suits him so much. I hope when or if Damian graduates from Robin and pick his own hero (or maybe antihero) identity, his costume will have green themed.


Well, Dick is blue, Jason is red, Tim is...brown? So Green works for Damian quite well.

----------


## Grandmaster_J

> Wallace is the Loverman of this TT generation. 1st Raven now Emi.
> 
> Emiko can't have feeling for Damian when she's crushing big time on Nightwing


Yep. My guy been pimping since becoming KF. Tanya was another, and is sometimes flirty with, Avery. 

Glad Emi's crush on Nightwing is still remembered and every time she stands next to Damian, it just looks awkward because of the height difference. A 13 year old boy under 5 feet. Grow!




> Despite the fact that you barely had any interaction with him, barely had any fight with him except about secret prison when you didn't hesitate to tell your loved one that he's abandoned by his villain relative?


Not barely, they argue quite a bit. Going by memory all the relevant interactions with Emi n KF. First 3 issues as the new team all they did was argue.

#20 Emi shoots an arrow through his phone, calls him an idiot, and a distraction.
#21 Argues over how to deal with Gizmo
#22 Emi scolds KF the whole issue, and blames him for Roundhouse's "death"
#24 Emi smiles at him while pulling a rod out of his leg, KF then saves her as they're fallen through the collapsing building. KF teasing her for not getting a thank you.
#29 Argue over the prison, later tells KF the "team" needs him.
#30 More arguing over the prison. Emi holds her bow and arrow to his face. KF asks is she gonna kill him too? Emi eventually tells him if he's so self righteous why didn't he use his speed to stop her from shooting, Deathstroke? Reading between the lines almost seemed like she hoped he would. Could possibly tie to the fear.
#33 Emi felt KF was the least likely to be the traitor. In fact last on her list.
#36 While KF is bummed about RH's betrayal and powers were out of wack, Emi shows some concern and suggests maybe meditation. KF brushes it off, while Roundhouse asks does she still think about Deathstroke's "death" while suggesting KF probably does. Emi denies carrying about what KF thinks. Could also maybe tie into the fear later on.  
#37 They're about to drown, admit they care about each other. Accepting their fate, hold hands as they sink into the water.
#40 Well.. what we saw. 

All of that can be interpreted differently by readers. All I know is if this is what Glass wanted then he should've spent even more time on it as he did with the other three.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Yep. My guy been pimping since becoming KF. Tanya was another, and is sometimes flirty with, Avery. 
> 
> Glad Emi's crush on Nightwing is still remembered and every time she stands next to Damian, it just looks awkward because of the height difference. A 13 year old boy under 5 feet. Grow!
> 
> 
> 
> Not barely, they argue quite a bit. Going by memory all the relevant interactions with Emi n KF. First 3 issues as the new team all they did was argue.
> 
> #20 Emi shoots an arrow through his phone, calls him an idiot, and a distraction.
> ...


Welp, guess I am the one who insensitive of their relationship.

----------


## dietrich

> Yep. My guy been pimping since becoming KF. Tanya was another, and is sometimes flirty with, Avery. 
> 
> Glad Emi's crush on Nightwing is still remembered and every time she stands next to Damian, it just looks awkward because of the height difference. A 13 year old boy under 5 feet. Grow!


I have to say I love both  of those facts a lot.
Emi's daydream about Nightwing was the best. I'm surprised anyone forgot.

----------


## dietrich

@ Yennefer

While I don't see Damian having lots of love interest the reality is that comics are written by the same singular writer. Lots of writers will write Damian and different writers have different taste so once Damian starts dating I don't believe he'd just only ever have one love.

The sad thing is that those kind of Star v Babs divides splits fanbases so in the end Damian's sales will be the only loser.

I want Damian to only have one love interest but it's unlikely he will.


I can see Damian having a bad guy love interest. It's a trope writers like. I don't like it too much since I don't think Damian is that weak willed.

Damian never had a crush on Djinn. Djinn had/has a crush on an unsuspecting Damian remember? Fans just made up the Damian has a crush on her part.

Crush is the one crushing on Djinn not Damian. Never Damian

----------


## Blue22

I dont think its completely accurate to say that whatever's going on with Djinn is one sided. It's obviously not as out there as Crush (because it's hard to be as obvious as an annoying ass yandere) but he had to have been feeling _something_ too. You don't typically almost kiss someone you have no feelings for. Or inner monologue about how "Whatever we had is gone now". Shit, even Roundhouse knew Damian felt something towards her. He used her to get to him *twice*. He wasn't outwardly professing his love for her or anything but I always thought it was pretty obvious that they were both into each other but didn't know how to/didn't want to act on it.

----------


## bluelolly

I think Raven(DCAMU) is Damian's ideal love interest. But in comics, they don't have any romantic connection..

----------


## Blue22

For better or worse,  they're going full speed ahead with him and Raven in those movies. Outside of that though, there's nothing between them nor should there be. With the Titans history back in place, she's a grown ass woman xD

----------


## Fergus

Crush; 'A strong but temporary attraction'

by that definition: Damian had a crush on Emiko and 
Djinn has a crush on Damian.

Crush actually likes Djinn
Damian it's debatable how he feels about Djinn but he has never been shown to have a strong attraction to her. Most times he doesn't even seem to consider her feelings so i question his feelings.

----------


## Fergus

> I think Raven(DCAMU) is Damian's ideal love interest. But in comics, they don't have any romantic connection..


It is the most organic and the best written romance themed story that damian has ever been featured in.

Injustice 2 is 2nd.

----------


## Jackalope89

> *It is the most organic and the best written romance themed story that damian has ever been featured in.
> *
> Injustice 2 is 2nd.


That's really not saying much though; considering only one or two other love interests (possible, at least) have ever been shown. What's more, its only been in 2 movies thus far. 3, when this last one comes out. And yet, so many fanfics about this is out there, clogging up the Teen Titans fanfics.

----------


## Grandmaster_J

> That's really not saying much though; considering only one or two other love interests (possible, at least) have ever been shown. What's more, its only been in 2 movies thus far. 3, when this last one comes out. And yet, so many fanfics about this is out there, clogging up the Teen Titans fanfics.


I'm not a fan of the pairing at all but it's incredible how popular it's become. You go to comments about the upcoming film and I see more talking about their relationship than the film itself. But to be fair to them the trailers have a lot of Damian and Raven in it.

----------


## Yennefer

@dietrich @Fergus

(First of all... Happy 100th page?! Lol)
I think that there is something in the middle and it is something annoyingly common...
Maybe he wants to experiment... Not sexually... But this is a very very very new field for him -with no doubt-...
He may want to experience the kiss and try intimacy... 
Add to this mix that at this point of his life he is literally alone... All of his family-connections have been practically cut and he does tend to blame and underestimate himself. He realises that with the actions he has done, he is not pure and that breaks him. Also, he does believe that he is not accepted by his peers (regardless if he cares about it). And then a girl comes, with the same guilt, with similar pain and much of tenderness and compassion (and love for the animals) and shows love to him... 
She was calming him (the generous soul thing and such) and was showing something he wants to experience from his loved ones.
It is natural (although annoying) to confuse love for romantic feelings.... But no doubt this confusion can be the base for something romantic to bloom.
There is an interest and he may confuse it with feelings, because of his wish to feel loved again.
That's why he is not head over heels for her and he is "measured". (and ofc he has no eq.)

The experience of an awfully friend-zoned girl is talking... xD

----------


## Yennefer

> It is the most organic and the best written romance themed story that damian has ever been featured in.
> 
> Injustice 2 is 2nd.





> I'm not a fan of the pairing at all but it's incredible how popular it's become. You go to comments about the upcoming film and I see more talking about their relationship than the film itself. But to be fair to them the trailers have a lot of Damian and Raven in it.


I will say that again. I just hope there is an actual material for it. I just hope we will see a legit relationship between them, even if it is a sublot and even if it would start in this movie.

----------


## Blue22

Between Raven, Djinn, Supergirl, Emiko, Maps, and Jon, I'm not really a huge fan of any of his most common fan ships or official ships. The only one I can really get behind is him with Djinn but I'm mostly indifferent about that too. If it happens, cool. If not, oh well.

He may be a teenager now but I'm okay with them still holding off on giving him any kind of real love interest.

----------


## Katana500

> Between Raven, Djinn, Supergirl, Emiko, Maps, and Jon, I'm not really a huge fan of any of his most common fan ships or official ships. The only one I can really get behind is him with Djinn but I'm mostly indifferent about that too. If it happens, cool. If not, oh well.
> 
> He may be a teenager now but I'm okay with them still holding off on giving him any kind of real love interest.


The oldest Damian ship is probably with Nightwing and Starfire's daughter Nightstar.

I always thought them together was a wee bit strange since wouldn't she be his niece. But i guess at the time the character was almost nothing like modern Damian is.

I like Djinn but I have a feeling they wouldn't have her end up with Damian cause Bat Office probably wouldn't want him having such a powerful magical girlfriend. Though I guess it depends who continues controlling Damian into the future.

----------


## dietrich

I don't really care that much for any of the pairings. I dislike romantic plots or rather I don't find them all that interesting especially the hetero ones. i've only ever really enjoyed Midnighter and Apollo.

When it comes to Damian, the DCAMU is the most believable [I buy it and I can visualise it]

In comics my preference
1) Batman666 chilling alone with his Cat. Head Shaven. The ultimate Spartan Warrior
2) The entire set up in The Just

I can tolerate the rest but if i could would rather do with those sub plots

I'm not into Fan ships and I also don't think Damian in the current comics is anywhere ready for a relationship. He is emotionally stunted and has poor interpersonal skills. He's not ready.

----------


## dietrich

> The oldest Damian ship is probably with Nightwing and Starfire's daughter Nightstar.
> 
> I always thought them together was a wee bit strange since wouldn't she be his niece. But i guess at the time the character was almost nothing like modern Damian is.
> 
> I like Djinn but I have a feeling they wouldn't have her end up with Damian cause Bat Office probably wouldn't want him having such a powerful magical girlfriend. Though I guess it depends who continues controlling Damian into the future.


That character isn't Damian that's Ibn a wholly different guy and that world is not this world so I don't see anything strange in that.

----------


## dietrich

> It is the most organic and the best written romance themed story that damian has ever been featured in.
> 
> Injustice 2 is 2nd.


The Kara/Damian dynamic in Injustice is very entertaining and i hope Tom Taylor gives us more in Injustice 3 [if DC does a 3] but that wasn't a romance.

----------


## dietrich

> I'm not a fan of the pairing at all but it's incredible how popular it's become. You go to comments about the upcoming film and I see more talking about their relationship than the film itself. But to be fair to them the trailers have a lot of Damian and Raven in it.


I'm also surprised by how popular that ship is.

----------


## CPSparkles

I like DamianxRaven from the movies

In the comics
IbnxMari
DamianxDjinn 
DamianxLexi

fanon
DamianxMaps
Damian Kara

Honestly I like all his comic ships and most fanon ships.

----------


## CPSparkles

WOW!! 101 pages 



https://twitter.com/yosuga0101

----------


## CPSparkles

Dick and Damian



https://twitter.com/ruri0824tby

Batman and Sons play baseball



https://twitter.com/bibyami

----------


## Jackalope89

> Dick and Damian
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/ruri0824tby
> 
> Batman and Sons play baseball
> 
> 
> ...


...Yeah, Damian did that on purpose.

----------


## Yennefer

Idc very much either who will be. I just want him to go into that phase xD

Waiting for the Apokolips War. Such an irony that the real earth will be in such a critical state as well...

----------


## Digifiend

> The oldest Damian ship is probably with Nightwing and Starfire's daughter Nightstar.
> 
> I always thought them together was a wee bit strange since wouldn't she be his niece. But i guess at the time the character was almost nothing like modern Damian is.
> 
> I like Djinn but I have a feeling they wouldn't have her end up with Damian cause Bat Office probably wouldn't want him having such a powerful magical girlfriend. Though I guess it depends who continues controlling Damian into the future.


That's what caused the Kori/Babs fanbase split. Dick was controlled by Wolfman as long as New (Teen) Titans was running. The Bat office took him back in the mid 90s, and since then he's started having other girlfriends instead of Starfire (who is a flying brick with energy blasts and not the sort of person they want in the Bat family), with Barbara as his most frequent one. You're right, the Bat office won't want Djinn. Is Teen Titans a Superman office book? During Rebirth it did have a crossover with Super Sons.

----------


## Jackalope89

> That's what caused the Kori/Babs fanbase split. Dick was controlled by Wolfman as long as New (Teen) Titans was running. The Bat office took him back in the mid 90s, and since then he's started having other girlfriends instead of Starfire (who is a flying brick with energy blasts and not the sort of person they want in the Bat family), with Barbara as his most frequent one. You're right, the Bat office won't want Djinn. Is Teen Titans a Superman office book? During Rebirth it did have a crossover with Super Sons.


Oof. Just thought of Jason and Artemis over in Red Hood. Doubt the Bat office would want her around too, outside of Lobdell and the few in the office that like that whole thing.

----------


## dietrich

> That's what caused the Kori/Babs fanbase split. Dick was controlled by Wolfman as long as New (Teen) Titans was running. The Bat office took him back in the mid 90s, and since then he's started having other girlfriends instead of Starfire (who is a flying brick with energy blasts and not the sort of person they want in the Bat family), with Barbara as his most frequent one. You're right, the Bat office won't want Djinn. Is Teen Titans a Superman office book? During Rebirth it did have a crossover with Super Sons.


I'm sure TT has it's own editorial office. It's not under the Bat Office.

Wonder why the Bat office is opposed to such relationships?
I mean if it's doing well with the fanbase then what's the issue?
Dick and Babs, Bruce and Selina, Tim and Steph. Are they trying to restrict it to Batverse characters?
Their powers don't have to affect the stories.

----------


## Jackalope89

While it hasn't appeared in any actual DC content, I about feel obligated (though not a fan by any means) to throw in the Damian and and Marinette thing that has really taken off in fanfics lately. Probably half the ones on I comes across on AO3 are that pairing. And I'm not even _looking_ for Damian or Marinette.

----------


## Light of Justice

> While it hasn't appeared in any actual DC content, I about feel obligated (though not a fan by any means) to throw in the Damian and and Marinette thing that has really taken off in fanfics lately. Probably half the ones on I comes across on AO3 are that pairing. And I'm not even _looking_ for Damian or Marinette.


Oh god tell me about it. Not only on AO3, even on tumblr this pairing is insanely popular. And I still don't understand how and why.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Oh god tell me about it. Not only on AO3, even on tumblr this pairing is insanely popular. And I still don't understand how and why.


On a semi-related note; I came across a Damian fanfic where he, with Maya and Goliath, are working on redeeming him, when they run into Ladybug and Cat Noir. No shipping on Damian's part, just Damian and Maya "helping" the two less experienced heroes out. After intruding on their secret identities, kidnapping them, and testing their non-hero abilities. Even if you don't know too much about Ladybug and Cat Noir, its a fun little read so far.

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13515732/1/We-re-the-Same

----------


## Blue22

Damian and Marinette is one of the weirdest, most random ships that I've ever seen get any traction. But damn do some fanfic writers do an awesome job of making them look like they'd be a good match for each other XD

Funny enough, I had someone in a discord group that I'm in talk about shipping him with Homura Akemi (who shares a voice actress with Marinette). And like...yeah he said it jokingly but if those two characters existed in the same universe/series/whatever, I could actually see it lol

----------


## Restingvoice

> I'm sure TT has it's own editorial office. It's not under the Bat Office.
> 
> Wonder why the Bat office is opposed to such relationships?
> I mean if it's doing well with the fanbase then what's the issue?
> Dick and Babs, Bruce and Selina, Tim and Steph. Are they trying to restrict it to Batverse characters?
> Their powers don't have to affect the stories.


The 90s Titans writer was planning for Kori and Dick to wed, Wolfman-approved, but then he found a different job and left. 
At that time, BTAS is super popular, where they also started DickBabs
Batman's popularity was rising, starting with TDKR and Batman 89, and steadily continue with all the movies and TV, while Titans sales were going down the drain, so they want Dick back in the fold. 
So Wolfman was asked to finish off Dick and Kori and shipped Dick back to the Batman Family, where it's more profitable, and maybe start a relationship that's gaining traction in their more popular media. 

So at first, things just fell into place. At first.

Years later though, with Dick and Babs firmly established in and out of comics, they started to redefine Dick's relationship with Kori, saying things like he doesn't really love her. 

But the Teen Titans cartoon happen and reignite or begin a new batch of Dick Kori shippers 

But by this point, Dick and Kori haven't been dating for more than 10 years I think, Dick and Babs are established in comics, Dick is established as a street hero, Batman family titles remain popular but Titans never got to the popularity and sales they had in the NTT days... 

So there's no incentive for higherups to let Dick and Kori back together in Titans when they can't keep that book floating... or don't want to because they view Titans unnecessary group in between Justice League and Teen Titans. 

Batman family is more profitable, they personally like it, the DickBabs pairing is known to the world, the Teen Titans show popularity doesn't translate to comic... bringing back Kori as Dick's lover again means involving her in the Batman Family or his street level series if they want to make sense, and it will change all the image they've built for 10 years at least. It's easier to just keep her away and continue with what they already have. 

At the very least though, they don't dare marrying Dick off because, on top of making him older, they know there are tons of fans of both pairings.

----------


## dietrich

> The 90s Titans writer was planning for Kori and Dick to wed, Wolfman-approved, but then he found a different job and left. 
> At that time, BTAS is super popular, where they also started DickBabs
> Batman's popularity was rising, starting with TDKR and Batman 89, and steadily continue with all the movies and TV, while Titans sales were going down the drain, so they want Dick back in the fold. 
> So Wolfman was asked to finish off Dick and Kori and shipped Dick back to the Batman Family, where it's more profitable, and maybe start a relationship that's gaining traction in their more popular media. 
> 
> So at first, things just fell into place. At first.
> 
> Years later though, with Dick and Babs firmly established in and out of comics, they started to redefine Dick's relationship with Kori, saying things like he doesn't really love her. 
> 
> ...


I guess the bottom line comes 1st.
Honestly i don't see how Dick dating Star means she has to be involved in Blud or Batfamily duties in Gotham.
She's got her own team and her own responsibilities. they both appear in different comics meaning that Nightwing readers for example can still get a title focused on him doing his thing but coming home to her [when she's not off world]

Jason already works with Arty, his series is street level and there isn't an already well opposed pairing to divide the base. So that's all win

----------


## AmiMizuno

I mean in the animated movie universe,  they're dating. Starfire is dealing with the Teen Titans and their own villains while Dick is at Bludhaven. So in a sense, both can have separate crime-fighting lives.  They are keeping Dick and Kori in certain animated things. However, I  also like Dick and Babs. However, the issue is also he will be close to Batman still. So it's damn if you do don't if you don't. Kori is far from Batman but the comic doesn't do well. Babs is doing well but close to batman. So maybe like someone said Powergirl.

----------


## dietrich

> While it hasn't appeared in any actual DC content, I about feel obligated (though not a fan by any means) to throw in the Damian and and Marinette thing that has really taken off in fanfics lately. Probably half the ones on I comes across on AO3 are that pairing. And I'm not even _looking_ for Damian or Marinette.


lol For the longest time I thought damian/mari was a Kingdom come inspired ship. 
Fans are imaginative. I don't watch the Series nor do i read the fics so not sure if there are themes or parallels in the ladybird Show [I think] that somehow led to Fans putting them together.

From what i've seen nothing of the worlds gel.
Could it be because Robin is teen hero with a Bird name and Mari's hero name has bird in it? they both also have characters with  'Cat' secret identity.
Damian has a cat with mostly Noir fur = Chat noir  :Confused:

----------


## Digifiend

No bird in that name. The show is called Miraculous and the character is called Ladybug.

----------


## dietrich

> I mean in the animated movie universe,  they're dating. Starfire is dealing with the Teen Titans and their own villains while Dick is at Bludhaven. So in a sense, both can have separate crime-fighting lives.  They are keeping Dick and Kori in certain animated things. However, I  also like Dick and Babs. However, the issue is also he will be close to Batman still. So it's damn if you do don't if you don't. Kori is far from Batman but the comic doesn't do well. Babs is doing well but close to batman. So maybe like someone said Powergirl.


Adding a super powered character that fans already ship Dick with in fanon is just chucking petrol on a fire to put it out

----------


## dietrich

> No bird in that name. The show is called Miraculous and the character is called Ladybug.


Oops my bad. I thought her hero id was Ladybird but yep it's a ladybug and she even wears a ladybug in the art I've seen.

----------


## Jackalope89

> lol For the longest time I thought damian/mari was a Kingdom come inspired ship. 
> Fans are imaginative. I don't watch the Series nor do i read the fics so not sure if there are themes or parallels in the ladybird Show [I think] that somehow led to Fans putting them together.
> 
> From what i've seen nothing of the worlds gel.
> Could it be because Robin is teen hero with a Bird name and Mari's hero name has bird in it? they both also have characters with  'Cat' secret identity.
> Damian has a cat with mostly Noir fur = cat noir


Well, Digifiend already corrected the character and show names. 

As for "why", only thing I can come up with is that Marinette (Laybug's secret identity) is of a similar age to Damian. I will say though, if Selina ever met Cat Noir, she'd demand compensation for basically using her costume.

----------


## Digifiend

I think Marvel's Felicia Hardy would want words too, as Cat Noir means Black Cat.

----------


## Korath

> lol For the longest time I thought damian/mari was a Kingdom come inspired ship. 
> Fans are imaginative. I don't watch the Series nor do i read the fics so not sure if there are themes or parallels in the ladybird Show [I think] that somehow led to Fans putting them together.
> 
> From what i've seen nothing of the worlds gel.
> Could it be because Robin is teen hero with a Bird name and Mari's hero name has bird in it? they both also have characters with  'Cat' secret identity.
> Damian has a cat with mostly Noir fur = cat noir


If you use noir, better use Chat instead of Cat, to be fully french  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Rac7d*

> I'm sure TT has it's own editorial office. It's not under the Bat Office.
> 
> Wonder why the Bat office is opposed to such relationships?
> I mean if it's doing well with the fanbase then what's the issue?
> Dick and Babs, Bruce and Selina, Tim and Steph. Are they trying to restrict it to Batverse characters?
> Their powers don't have to affect the stories.


 Ive been here for a while and you have too and this is a beat we hit every year. Super-powered folks can visit but they cant stay. Storylines like city of bane dont work with starfire Artemis or Superman

----------


## dietrich

> I’ve been here for a while and you have too and this is a beat we hit every year. Super-powered folks can visit but they can’t stay. Storylines like city of bane don’t work with starfire Artemis or Superman


Damian had powers for a bit and bruce let him stay. Gotham Girl got to stay and live with Bruce  :Stick Out Tongue:  

Anyway Nightwing doesn't live in Gotham. Kori has a job and a team so she's too busy. Just because she's dating Dick doesn't mean she has to join the family business. They don't have to use her in stories, Her job is a valid explanation for her not getting involved.

City of Bane, the mayor and Bane holding Alfred hostage kept heroes and family out of the story not batman's flexible no metas in Gotham rule. 
He can date her without affecting the plot.

----------


## dietrich

> If you use noir, better use Chat instead of Cat, to be fully french


Nice.

Edited now fully french  :Wink:

----------


## Restingvoice

> I guess the bottom line comes 1st.
> Honestly, i don't see how Dick dating Star means she has to be involved in Blud or Batfamily duties in Gotham.
> She's got her own team and her own responsibilities. they both appear in different comics meaning that Nightwing readers, for example, can still get a title focused on him doing his thing but coming home to her [when she's not off world]
> 
> Jason already works with Arty, his series is street level and there isn't an already well-opposed pairing to divide the base. So that's all win


True, but I think DC is just stuck on the branding. If they see a status quo or dynamic they like they want to keep that image. We're talking about longtime fans working on longtime works that inspired them. They're as stubborn as any old fandom. 

As for Jason, the concept of Outlaws didn't start as street level. It's most likely inspired by the Countdown team of Donna and Kyle, a dimensional-hopping story that Didio really likes. I can see him wanting that concept to carry over to his New 52 universe. This time with Roy and Kori. Their adventures were also more like Titans than UTRH, fighting Blackfire, metahumans, and immortals, then teaming up with Teen Titans. 

Speaking of Titans, Didio wanted Jason to be Nightwing way back in Infinite Crisis, and a lot of his plans that he wrote back then, like separating Lois and Clark, happened in New 52. So I can see Countdown and Outlaws series as a fulfillment of his initial wish of making Jason Nightwing and work with his friends.  

In Rebirth, they're now street level because Johns' Rebirth concept is to bring back every character to their most recognizable elements. In the case of Jason, it's UTRH, which is street level, darker, no space adventure, and has Black Mask. I guess he likes the Outlaws concept but brings Artemis and Bizarro to replace Kori and Roy, who are more recognizable to wider audience in Titans.

Bringing Kori and Dick back, creating a new concept of them being together in Bludhaven, is not impossible, but someone needs to want to do it first. Otherwise, DC's just gonna go with what's work.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Damian had powers for a bit and bruce let him stay. Gotham Girl got to stay and live with Bruce  
> 
> Anyway Nightwing doesn't live in Gotham. Kori has a job and a team so she's too busy. Just because she's dating Dick doesn't mean she has to join the family business. They don't have to use her in stories, Her job is a valid explanation for her not getting involved.
> 
> City of Bane, the mayor and Bane holding Alfred hostage kept heroes and family out of the story not batman's flexible no metas in Gotham rule. 
> He can date her without affecting the plot.


Was he suppose to kick out his 10 year old so ? And it was played for laughs he rounded up all the bad guys he could in a afternoon to prove the point

----------


## Blue22

> Was he suppose to kick out his 10 year old son?


Why not? Alfred did XD

----------


## Zaresh

> [...]
> As for Jason, the concept of Outlaws didn't start as street level. It's most likely inspired by the Countdown team of Donna and Kyle, a dimensional-hopping story that Didio really likes. I can see him wanting that concept to carry over to his New 52 universe. This time with Roy and Kori. Their adventures were also more like Titans than UTRH, fighting Blackfire, metahumans, and immortals, then teaming up with Teen Titans.
> [...]


Probably the only thing people actually like and feel savable from Countdown is the multiverse adventures of the Challengers (because it's what it was, a challengers' team, to be honest). It was pretty enjoyable and fun, had nice dynamics, until near the end of it.

(I'm all in for more DickKori)

/*off topic

----------


## Fergus

> Why not? Alfred did XD


Ouch! That was Brutal, funny and canon   :Cool:

----------


## dietrich

> True, but I think DC is just stuck on the branding. If they see a status quo or dynamic they like they want to keep that image. We're talking about longtime fans working on longtime works that inspired them. They're as stubborn as any old fandom. 
> 
> As for Jason, the concept of Outlaws didn't start as street level. It's most likely inspired by the Countdown team of Donna and Kyle, a dimensional-hopping story that Didio really likes. I can see him wanting that concept to carry over to his New 52 universe. This time with Roy and Kori. Their adventures were also more like Titans than UTRH, fighting Blackfire, metahumans, and immortals, then teaming up with Teen Titans. 
> 
> Speaking of Titans, Didio wanted Jason to be Nightwing way back in Infinite Crisis, and a lot of his plans that he wrote back then, like separating Lois and Clark, happened in New 52. So I can see Countdown and Outlaws series as a fulfillment of his initial wish of making Jason Nightwing and work with his friends.  
> 
> In Rebirth, they're now street level because Johns' Rebirth concept is to bring back every character to their most recognizable elements. In the case of Jason, it's UTRH, which is street level, darker, no space adventure, and has Black Mask. I guess he likes the Outlaws concept but brings Artemis and Bizarro to replace Kori and Roy, who are more recognizable to wider audience in Titans.
> 
> Bringing Kori and Dick back, creating a new concept of them being together in Bludhaven, is not impossible, but someone needs to want to do it first. Otherwise, DC's just gonna go with what's work.


That was a typo.
 I meant his title isn't street hence the all win at the end. 
The restrictions that prevent a bat dating a super power character don't apply including the street level title which nightwing and Batman are so he's good to go.
He's all win

----------


## Light of Justice

> Why not? Alfred did XD


Now you make me wonder what will happen if Damian develops supernatural abilities. It's kinda hinted isn't it? His future as Batman in Batman666, his battle with Gotham Girl (sold his soul etc), and now he already learn the content of Book of Damned from cover to cover and all the sigils. If metas are unwelcome in Gotham, how about human who learn supernatural magic?

----------


## Jackalope89

> Now you make me wonder what will happen if Damian develops supernatural abilities. It's kinda hinted isn't it? His future as Batman in Batman666, his battle with Gotham Girl (sold his soul etc), and now he already learn the content of Book of Damned from cover to cover and all the sigils. If metas are unwelcome in Gotham, how about human who learn supernatural magic?


Zatanna frequents Gotham, and is often regarded as one of Bruce's oldest friends (barring the whole pre-Flashpoint Identity Crisis thing). So, magic users seem to be an exception of sorts.

----------


## dietrich

Man @lightofjustice  you just reminded of King's batman and one of the things I hated the most. 

That reference to Batman666.

An Insecure Damian trading his soul to keep Gotham safe because he believes he isn't as good as Bruce or Dick. That works and respects the legacy of the two Batmen before him.

Changing that to Bruce sends teen sidekick to infiltrate Gotham.
His mission is
get to Gotham where bats are banned, over run with villains and has a superpowered gate keeper who has powers similar to Superman's, [Gotham soloed the Jl] who isn't vulnerable to kryptonite
Engage Thomas
throw the fight and allow himself to be taken hostage
Break free, unlock the door and let the rest of the bat crew in.

Damian accomplishes his mission of course and like a boss.
 How did he get past the superman-like gate keeper ? Magic. He  traded his soul for a magic something so he could accomplish the mission Batman sent him on.

While a ridiculously mustachioed  Bruce is learning how to throw batarangs, sun bathing, enjoying cocktails while waiting for some drugs Damian was selling his soul for Gotham and taking down a super.

Why would a Batman writer write that? Why make that change. 
king did batman dirty and hard.

King made it clear that 100% Damian Wayne defeated GG.  This super who flicked The Atom away like a fly. Was never even a problem for 13 year old Robin. He gave him ownership while taking a dig [I interpreted it as  a dig any way] at batman in this panel

[IMG]https://***********/thefanboyseo.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Batman-2016-034-011.jpg?resize=666%2C1024[/IMG]

batman's plans for Superman is  Krptonite.

The other possibility [option B] is that it was Bruce's plan meaning Bruce ordered his son to trade his soul for this.

That would make Bruce a monster and Bruce isn't a monster not even in a run as damaging as King's. King's Bruce is incompetent so it's definitely Option A

He didn't have to link 666 to his story. I don't get why writer's have to keep touching that world. getting their sticky prints all over it. trying to link it to their rubbish stories and attempting to make changes no one asked for.

That is my favourite batman and AA 2 is my single most anticipated thing right now. i doubt King's hinting, change, suggestions , whatever it was matters or leads to anything.

I hope not because King's take sucks.

i did however enjoy seeing Damian take her down. i also admit that was wank. It also makes damian very look like a stu.

i also liked King making Damian a bullet timer. That is canon now and no one can challenge that  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## dietrich

> Now you make me wonder what will happen if Damian develops supernatural abilities. It's kinda hinted isn't it? His future as Batman in Batman666, his battle with Gotham Girl (sold his soul etc), and now he already learn the content of Book of Damned from cover to cover and all the sigils. If metas are unwelcome in Gotham, how about human who learn supernatural magic?


If Damian gained the ability of the 666 dude then he doesn't need Gotham. the guy survived a nuclear bomb! He'd be of greater us else where but then again he's not got super strength and he's still a short 13 year old.

he'd have to stay in Gotham since he's still a minor and batman would just have to suck it up. It's not like he kill him  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Yennefer

> Man @lightofjustice  you just reminded of King's batman and one of the things I hated the most. 
> 
> That reference to Batman666.
> 
> An Insecure Damian trading his soul to keep Gotham safe because he believes he isn't as good as Bruce or Dick. That works and respects the legacy of the two Batmen before him.
> 
> Changing that to Bruce sends teen sidekick to infiltrate Gotham.
> His mission is
> get to Gotham where bats are banned, over run with villains and has a superpowered gate keeper who has powers similar to Superman's, [Gotham soloed the Jl] who isn't vulnerable to kryptonite
> ...


Please....
King never actually wrote Batman 😂

----------


## Light of Justice

> Man @lightofjustice  you just reminded of King's batman and one of the things I hated the most. 
> 
> That reference to Batman666.
> 
> An Insecure Damian trading his soul to keep Gotham safe because he believes he isn't as good as Bruce or Dick. That works and respects the legacy of the two Batmen before him.
> 
> Changing that to Bruce sends teen sidekick to infiltrate Gotham.
> His mission is
> get to Gotham where bats are banned, over run with villains and has a superpowered gate keeper who has powers similar to Superman's, [Gotham soloed the Jl] who isn't vulnerable to kryptonite
> ...


Oh you have no idea how angry I am when I read the cursed sentence 'I send Damian in.' My annoyance when reading 'bat' 'cat' dialogue exploded on that moment, bonus the fact that he said it on a beach while holding Selina and looking at the sunset like what the heck? I know Damian is ninja kid, but when you practically send your 13 years old kid to enemy territory and order to let himself to be captured, should you, I don't know, make some worry face? Or pray that your enemy will not hurt your kid? or attach a mini camera on Damian's uniform so he can know what happened or something? I remember my first travel alone to other country and my father will call me and chat me like once an hour until I send him a photo that I arrived on my friend's home safely. 




> King made it clear that 100% Damian Wayne defeated GG.  This super who flicked The Atom away like a fly. Was never even a problem for 13 year old Robin. He gave him ownership while taking a dig [I interpreted it as  a dig any way] at batman in this panel
> 
> [IMG]https://***********/thefanboyseo.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Batman-2016-034-011.jpg?resize=666%2C1024[/IMG]
> 
> batman's plans for Superman is  Krptonite.


Oh yeah I forgot this interaction. It turns out that Damian has fascination to magic even before the whole Book of Damned stuff.




> The other possibility [option B] is that it was Bruce's plan meaning Bruce ordered his son to trade his soul for this.
> 
> That would make Bruce a monster and Bruce isn't a monster not even in a run as damaging as King's. King's Bruce is incompetent so it's definitely Option A
> 
> He didn't have to link 666 to his story. I don't get why writer's have to keep touching that world. getting their sticky prints all over it. trying to link it to their rubbish stories and attempting to make changes no one asked for.


I also don't know, but I think DC is trying to brew some plot into Damian's dark future. Arrival of future Tim, 'baby Hitler' hint on Legion of Superheroes #3, also seems like Damian's moral support is gone from him one by one. Alfred, Dick, Jon, and Bruce likely OTW, because why does Damian try to kill KGBeast after his collision with Bruce? Isn't that collision supposed to educate Damian that building prisoner with virus protocol is wrong, brainwashing criminal is wrong, etc? 
We discussed before about Supersons comic watered down Damian, but what if Damian made himself to be 'less dark' when he was with Jon? And also the fact that Supersons is canceled even though it's obvious that they're very popular and their sales went well. But that's only my speculation.




> That is my favourite batman and AA 2 is my single most anticipated thing right now. i doubt King's hinting, change, suggestions , whatever it was matters or leads to anything.
> 
> I hope not because King's take sucks.
> 
> i did however enjoy seeing Damian take her down. i also admit that was wank. It also makes damian very look like a stu.
> 
> i also liked King making Damian a bullet timer. That is canon now and no one can challenge that


What is bullet timer? Or do you mean ticking bomb?

----------


## Light of Justice

> If Damian gained the ability of the 666 dude then he doesn't need Gotham. the guy survived a nuclear bomb! He'd be of greater us else where but then again he's not got super strength and he's still a short 13 year old.


Why did I imagine that if Damian seriously learns dark magic, the first thing he will try is magic to make him taller? XD




> he'd have to stay in Gotham since he's still a minor and batman would just have to suck it up. It's not like he kill him


Doesn't Tim start to live outside the manor when he was only 17? (I don't care what Bendis say, there's no way Tim is only 16 years old. That means when Damian came to Gotham he was only 13 and that is impossible scenario).

----------


## sifighter

Honestly that would be pretty cool if Damian’s distinction from the rest of the batfamily is that he used magic, I imagine that would be very useful in the future. Just stay away from Constantine is all. If batfamily, study with Zatanna.

Though I suppose it would probably make more sense to learn from Raven since he at least knows her some what in the comics, unless Djinn sticks around.

----------


## Digifiend

> Doesn't Tim start to live outside the manor when he was only 17? (I don't care what Bendis say, there's no way Tim is only 16 years old. That means when Damian came to Gotham he was only 13 and that is impossible scenario).


Yeah, if pre-Flashpoint stuff is back in continuity, there's no way he's 16. In fact the Robin special, in the Red Robin story, Tim tells Dick that he isn't yet 20. Wouldn't he say 18 if he was under that age? Seems like he's 19 - and it's been retconned that he was that age in Rebirth Detective Comics, where originally he was 16.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Oh you have no idea how angry I am when I read the cursed sentence 'I send Damian in.' My annoyance when reading 'bat' 'cat' dialogue exploded on that moment, bonus the fact that he said it on a beach while holding Selina and looking at the sunset like what the heck? I know Damian is ninja kid, but when you practically send your 13 years old kid to enemy territory and order to let himself to be captured, should you, I don't know, make some worry face? Or pray that your enemy will not hurt your kid? or attach a mini camera on Damian's uniform so he can know what happened or something? I remember my first travel alone to other country and my father will call me and chat me like once an hour until I send him a photo that I arrived on my friend's home safely. 
> 
> 
> Oh yeah I forgot this interaction. It turns out that Damian has fascination to magic even before the whole Book of Damned stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> I also don't know, but I think DC is trying to brew some plot into Damian's dark future. Arrival of future Tim, 'baby Hitler' hint on Legion of Superheroes #3, also seems like Damian's moral support is gone from him one by one. Alfred, Dick, Jon, and Bruce likely OTW, because why does Damian try to kill KGBeast after his collision with Bruce? Isn't that collision supposed to educate Damian that building prisoner with virus protocol is wrong, brainwashing criminal is wrong, etc? 
> We discussed before about Supersons comic watered down Damian, but what if Damian made himself to be 'less dark' when he was with Jon? And also the fact that Supersons is canceled even though it's obvious that they're very popular and their sales went well. But that's only my speculation.
> ...


bullet timers are characters that can dodge bullets either by being extremely fast like Neo from the Matrix or Flash.

Casual bullets timers are not any where near the level of Flash of course

Cass is a casual bullet timer because she was trained to read body language. Batman is a casual Bullet timer because of his ninja training.

Damian with his training, reflexes'agility and size is a casual Bullet timer. We've seen him do it in other comics it's just that when they need him to be lose to someone bigger and slower they purposefully forget

----------


## CPSparkles

> Honestly that would be pretty cool if Damian’s distinction from the rest of the batfamily is that he used magic, I imagine that would be very useful in the future. Just stay away from Constantine is all. If batfamily, study with Zatanna.
> 
> Though I suppose it would probably make more sense to learn from Raven since he at least knows her some what in the comics, unless Djinn sticks around.


I like the idea of Damian using magic.
He could be a magical Ninja.

Why stay away from Constantine? I mean actually hoping that DCeased 2 and JLD2 will give us a decent amount of Damian interacting with Constantine.

I want to know what would look like.

----------


## CPSparkles

I didn't like King's nods to Batman 666 but I liked everything else. Damian taking down GG was great to read.

He's dialogue was great all through the issue.
Him getting his magic wand from the Witch boy was brilliant [it implies that Damian knows him or has connections to him. I want to know more]
Damian following through on his bold outrageous claim about taking down supers show's that Damian as outrageous as his claims and boasts might sound is actually simply being direct and factual.

That issue joined batboys brunch, Alfred telling the boys of the engagement. Elmer fudd, Prelude to the wedding [all of them],Dick and Damian's trip to the desert as my top issues from the run.

----------


## Light of Justice

> bullet timers are characters that can dodge bullets either by being extremely fast like Neo from the Matrix or Flash.
> 
> Casual bullets timers are not any where near the level of Flash of course
> 
> Cass is a casual bullet timer because she was trained to read body language. Batman is a casual Bullet timer because of his ninja training.
> 
> Damian with his training, reflexes'agility and size is a casual Bullet timer. We've seen him do it in other comics it's just that when they need him to be lose to someone bigger and slower they purposefully forget


Thank you for your explanation! I'm a new fans so I don't understand some terms in this fandom XP

----------


## CPSparkles

This very cutesy and out of character but i Like it

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/mtam02

I need more Smiling Damian in the comics

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/dc_ypyp

Damian and Talia



https://twitter.com/batsalghul

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/mcmramcm



https://twitter.com/batsalghul


So much styling went into these 2 costumes. 
It's like they were designed more to make a statement.i love it. 
I can shades of Wayne and Al Ghul in both.

----------


## sifighter

> I like the idea of Damian using magic.
> He could be a magical Ninja.
> 
> Why stay away from Constantine? I mean actually hoping that DCeased 2 and JLD2 will give us a decent amount of Damian interacting with Constantine.
> 
> I want to know what would look like.


Mainly because at times Constantine can be extremely untrustworthy and devious....actually maybe theyd get along well(kidding). In a seriousness though why Constantine can be cool, actually I really like him, I do also understand that you need to be careful around him because of his schemes.

Also yeah excited for both DCeased 2 and Apokolips War. To show my excitement Ive found the best close up image I could find of Damian Batman...from Dceased not 666.

07A74216-FAC1-4933-B18B-5331AA603D5A.jpg

----------


## Blue22

> https://twitter.com/dc_ypyp


I really like that. I've always preferred blue eyed Damian. Something about him looking mostly like Talia but having Bruce's eyes just...fits.

----------


## Light of Justice

> https://twitter.com/mcmramcm


Wow, I like this art! Now I imagine those two meet each other because of some time warp and then debate who's the most brutal between two of them.

----------


## adrikito

Batman *beyond damian* is really cool

BENDIS IS MAKING THIS STUPID MOVE(Clark is the TRUE SUPERMAN) to continue humiliating Damian? It was NOT ENOUGH in legion Superheroes 3?  :Mad:   :Mad:  

https://www.cbr.com/legion-of-super-...true-superman/

I saw the topic about this comic in CBR and some people thinks that maybe he can focus in this  :Mad:

----------


## Jackalope89

> Batman *beyond damian* is really cool
> 
> BENDIS IS MAKING THIS STUPID MOVE(Clark is the TRUE SUPERMAN) to continue humiliating Damian? It was NOT ENOUGH in legion Superheroes 3?   
> 
> https://www.cbr.com/legion-of-super-...true-superman/
> 
> I saw the topic about this comic in CBR and some people thinks that maybe he can focus in this


Wow. Just when I didn't think I could hate Bendis' run more than I already did.

----------


## Restingvoice

> https://twitter.com/mcmramcm


I said "now kiss" in the split second before I realized it's the same character.

Though some people are into that.

----------


## Yennefer

I just saw the trailer for Gotham High..............................................  ..  :Confused:  I couldn't understand what found me.

----------


## Blue22

Yeeeeeeah. From what I've seen, that comic is a hot ass mess.

----------


## dietrich

> I said "now kiss" in the split second before I realized it's the same character.
> 
> Though some people are into that.


it does look like they are about to kiss.

----------


## Jackalope89

I'll third on the kissing thing. Though, I get they were going for a "duality" sort of thing, but still.

The only time I've ever enjoyed DC actually making characters young in AUs, was in the animated Justice League series. Otherwise, it takes people like Yale Stewart doing JL8 as fanfics for it to work.

----------


## dietrich

> Batman *beyond damian* is really cool
> 
> BENDIS IS MAKING THIS STUPID MOVE(Clark is the TRUE SUPERMAN) to continue humiliating Damian? It was NOT ENOUGH in legion Superheroes 3?   
> 
> https://www.cbr.com/legion-of-super-...true-superman/
> 
> I saw the topic about this comic in CBR and some people thinks that maybe he can focus in this


I must be missing something but don't see how this humiliates Damian.
This will piss of Superman fans. Stuff like this isn't necessary. It adds nothing to Jon's character. 

Writing stories that make readers think " Wow! this is the one true Superman". Show don't just drop labels.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I must be missing something but don't see how this humiliates Damian.
> This will piss of Superman fans. Stuff like this isn't necessary. It adds nothing to Jon's character. 
> 
> Writing stories that make readers think " Wow! this is the one true Superman". Show don't just drop labels.


Perhaps because Jon is declared as true Superman when Damian almost lost his Robin title? or perhaps because both Damian and Jon are showed on monitor but brainiac and other only talk about how great Jon is (and they called Damian 'Baby Hitler' 2 issue before)? I don't know, it's only my prediction. But yeah, Superman's fans will be incredibly pissed. And I don't think Jon fans will be happy about it either. Like you said, it adds nothing to Jon's character development. If anything, that makes him more and more like Clark's clone than Conner.

----------


## Blue22

As a fan of real Jon, that does upset me. Then again, everything Bendis has done with Jon upsets me so this is par for the course. He wants Jon to be Clark SO fucking bad. 

But I'm not entirely sure what any of this has to do with Damian. We already know the legion doesn't like him.

----------


## adrikito

> I must be missing something but don't see how this humiliates Damian.
> This will piss of Superman fans. Stuff like this isn't necessary. It adds nothing to Jon's character. 
> 
> Writing stories that make readers think " Wow! this is the one true Superman". Show don't just drop labels.


Some people thinks that Bendis using this will continue with the DAMIAN IS EVIL THING that said in the LEGION.  :Mad:  For this I mentioned LEGION 3.. The only issue that I saw to feel BAD and never want to read it again.

----------


## Rac7d*

So they want another batman vs Superman redux?

----------


## Jackalope89

> So they want another batman vs Superman redux?


Well, Bendis and his fans apparently do. Things like this makes me wonder...

And the whole "one true Superman" bull crap, well, its yet another thing Jon fans didn't ask for and Clark fans don't want.

----------


## Light of Justice

> So they want another batman vs Superman redux?


Sadly, I think they already build a plot toward that direction. CMIIW, I think I remember Future Tim (Savior) said that on his future Damian and Jon come into conflict, Jon loses control off his powers and wipes out millions of innocents. And yet event though Savior went to kill Jon, he said that Damian should be killed because of what will he do to 'that poor Kent boy'. So we can assume that the conflict is Damian's fault (as much as I love him, that kid is too good at starting a fight). Now if Jon is the God or Prophet of LoH or something, it's understandable if Legion members hate and become wary of Damian, because he will bring Jon into his demise. 

So, IMO, Damian and Jon conflict will definitely happen in the future.

----------


## Blue22

Honestly, it was destined to happen at some point. Just like how the numerous conflicts between their dads was always bound to happen. Depending on who writes it and what the end result is, I'm all for it. Not every friendship is perfect. Sometimes ideals and personalities clash. And when those two are already foils to each other, at least one clash is inevitable.

But I'd rather it not be some Injustice or BvS style bullshit where it happens because one of them goes evil or both of them have suddenly decided to be idiots. One of my biggest pet peeves as an aspiring writer is when a plot is dependent on everyone involved being as dumb as humanly possible. It was one of MANY huge issues I take with Batman VS Superman. And it's why just about every Marvel "Hero VS Hero" crossover event has sucked (Special shout-out to Civil War II and Inhumans VS X-Men)

----------


## Light of Justice

> Honestly, it was destined to happen at some point. Just like how the numerous conflicts between their dads was always bound to happen. Depending on who writes it and what the end result is, I'm all for it. Not every friendship is perfect. Sometimes ideals and personalities clash. And when those two are already foils to each other, at least one clash is inevitable.
> 
> But I'd rather it not be some Injustice or BvS style bullshit where it happens because one of them goes evil or both of them have suddenly decided to be idiots. One of my biggest pet peeves as an aspiring writer is when a plot is dependent on everyone involved being as dumb as humanly possible. It was one of MANY huge issues I take with Batman VS Superman. And it's why just about every Marvel "Hero VS Hero" crossover event has sucked (Special shout-out to Civil War II and Inhumans VS X-Men)


The problem is, almost every Hero vs Hero plot is either making one of them evil or dumb, and/or making both of their fanbase go for each other throat. Just look at Cap fanbase vs Iron Man fanbase, or Batman fanbase vs Superman fanbase. Man, twitter, tumblr, even ao3 became battlefield. Damian fanbase and Jon fanbase from what I see is civil with each other because of Supersons, I'm afraid there will be hostility between those fanbase because of that. 
I can take if Cap vs Iron Man, even Batman vs Superman, I see them as two leader figure whose personality crash each other. But Damian and Jon, I see them as two kids who overcome their different personality and become best friend, I am attached by their friendship. So to break that friendship for the sake of big fight plot.... I can help but disagree. 

Besides is there really a must that Batman's son and Superman's son will fight each other because their father do the same? Just look at Tim and Kon, Tim is Robin who is the most similar to Bruce, and Kon is literally Superman's clone. But I don't recall any fight between two of them.

----------


## Blue22

> The problem is, almost every Hero vs Hero plot is either making one of them evil or dumb, and/or making both of their fanbase go for each other throat. Just look at Cap fanbase vs Iron Man fanbase, or Batman fanbase vs Superman fanbase. Man, twitter, tumblr, even ao3 became battlefield. Damian fanbase and Jon fanbase from what I see is civil with each other because of Supersons, I'm afraid there will be hostility between those fanbase because of that. 
> I can take if Cap vs Iron Man, even Batman vs Superman, I see them as two leader figure whose personality crash each other. But Damian and Jon, I see them as two kids who overcome their different personality and become best friend, I am attached by their friendship. So to break that friendship for the sake of big fight plot.... I can help but disagree. 
> 
> Besides is there really a must that Batman's son and Superman's son will fight each other because their father do the same? Just look at Tim and Kon, Tim is Robin who is the most similar to Bruce, and Kon is literally Superman's clone. But I don't recall any fight between two of them.


I'd never want anything as big as Civil War or Injustice to happen between the two. There definitely doesn't need to be some big event that drives them apart. But, hey, nothing wrong with a little dram/conflict that they'd later come to learn and grow from...depending on the circumstances. That's really the point I'm trying to make here. I don't necessarily mind their friendship being put to the test through a fight/disagreement. It's not a concept that I'd immediately say no to. Unlike Tim and Conner, Damian and Jon are such polar opposites of each other that the conflicts practically write themselves (and have in the past). But just...let there be a point to it. Don't let it ruin their friendship. Use it as something that strengthens it in the end.

----------


## Fergus

> The problem is, almost every Hero vs Hero plot is either making one of them evil or dumb, and/or making both of their fanbase go for each other throat. Just look at Cap fanbase vs Iron Man fanbase, or Batman fanbase vs Superman fanbase. Man, twitter, tumblr, even ao3 became battlefield. Damian fanbase and Jon fanbase from what I see is civil with each other because of Supersons, I'm afraid there will be hostility between those fanbase because of that. 
> I can take if Cap vs Iron Man, even Batman vs Superman, I see them as two leader figure whose personality crash each other. But Damian and Jon, I see them as two kids who overcome their different personality and become best friend, I am attached by their friendship. So to break that friendship for the sake of big fight plot.... I can help but disagree. 
> 
> Besides is there really a must that Batman's son and Superman's son will fight each other because their father do the same? Just look at Tim and Kon, Tim is Robin who is the most similar to Bruce, and Kon is literally Superman's clone. But I don't recall any fight between two of them.


Best friends can still have a clash. 
Batman and Superman should clash more often. Superman shouldn't even be okay working with Batman.

Batman engages a lot of strategies that Superman shouldn't be fine with.
There's a lot in Batman's history that should clash with Superman's values but for story purposes it's all ignored.

Even just Bruce's personality and attitude should piss Superman off more often.

A lot of those personality traits are present in Damian which is why Jon often belittles and is testy with him.

Damian's background means he's still learning what's acceptable and where the line is. 
He also employs a few of his dads methods.

I can see them clashing over a case  or a crisis were their ethics create a wedge Civil War Style.

That is not a bad thing.

Tim doesn't have Bruce's personality. He is social-able, works well in a team and treats his team mates okay.

His style is very different from Bruce so it's easy to see why he's never clashed with Conner.
Not even in Conner's bad boy days.

----------


## shadow6743

I wouldn't be surprised if LOS or Superman was canceled. I haven't heard much of anything positive about these books and the sales numbers keep going down. Young Justice will be safe due to the trade being sold out right now on Amazon, same with Teen Titans both Percy and Adam Glass' runs being closed to sold out. Just a reminder to comic fans to support the comic book industry by buying trades and buying from comic shops with a online presence. If you were interested in a book or a character now is the time to experiment find out if there something new for you to read and enjoy.

I have decided to do this by reading all of Jack Kirby bibliography I have read all of his DC works and  now  I'm reading Fantastic Four. Then I am planning on reading the works of Len Wein starting with Swamp Thing. Some older books aren't available on digital platforms but I found quite a bit of good reading.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I'd never want anything as big as Civil War or Injustice to happen between the two. There definitely doesn't need to be some big event that drives them apart. But, hey, nothing wrong with a little dram/conflict that they'd later come to learn and grow from...depending on the circumstances. That's really the point I'm trying to make here. I don't necessarily mind their friendship being put to the test through a fight/disagreement. It's not a concept that I'd immediately say no to. Unlike Tim and Conner, Damian and Jon are such polar opposites of each other that the conflicts practically write themselves (and have in the past). But just...let there be a point to it. Don't let it ruin their friendship. Use it as something that strengthens it in the end.


There's no way Damian/Jon conflict will be little. DC will definitely make Batman's son vs Superman's son as big as possible to attract common people and gain profit. Future Tim and LoH already gave us hint that their fight will be highly destructive and cost many lives of innocent. And we know how Damian and Jon feels about death of innocent people. That's what makes me worry. 
I also hope if their big fight really happened it will have positive outcome. But please no innocent dying, if possible. For their sake.

----------


## Rac7d*

> There's no way Damian/Jon conflict will be little. DC will definitely make Batman's son vs Superman's son as big as possible to attract common people and gain profit. Future Tim and LoH already gave us hint that their fight will be highly destructive and cost many lives of innocent. And we know how Damian and Jon feels about death of innocent people. That's what makes me worry. 
> I also hope if their big fight really happened it will have positive outcome. But please no innocent dying, if possible. For their sake.



But I thought Jon and Damian learned from their fathers mistakes
Why would they

----------


## Restingvoice

> But I thought Jon and Damian learned from their fathers mistakes
> Why would they


Jon and Damian won't but DC will. 

I don't know what the context that you all talking about but I need no context when I know DC always ignores anything if they want to set up something.

----------


## dietrich

> Some people thinks that Bendis using this will continue with the DAMIAN IS EVIL THING that said in the LEGION.  For this I mentioned LEGION 3.. The only issue that I saw to feel BAD and never want to read it again.


 hope he doesn't but he's already planted that seed so...
As a Damian fan I've made peace with the fact that Damian is always going to straddle the fence.
Aside from being an Al Ghul, he's a Robin, he's one of the deadliest Bats outside of Cass and he has the most red in his ledger.

These stories will persist for good or bad. Not just for Damian either but other Robins [well the ones that writers are interested in writing]

I'm not reading Legion anymore after the Hitler thing. Bendis can do what he want's. I don't have to read it.

There's other writers. For every Bendis there's a Tom Taylor [please let that DC marvel cross over happen] I can look forward to DCeased at least.
You shouldn't let Bendis get to you

----------


## adrikito

> I'm not reading Legion anymore after the Hitler thing. Bendis can do what he want's. I don't have to read it.
> 
> There's other writers. For every Bendis there's a Tom Taylor [please let that DC marvel cross over happen] I can look forward to DCeased at least.
> You shouldn't let Bendis get to you


I only saw that issue.. I am not superkid fan or fan about any legion character because I never readed one comic from the legion to want to read it..

Taylor.. I liked that he changed his mind with Damian..

*WHY THE INTEREST IN THAT CROSS?*  :Confused:  

Thinking in the chance to see for example DARKSEID losing against someone that I consider weaker than him only makes me want to avoid that. 

Death Battle and others fight convinced me that is STRONGER than THANOS to want to see the opposite in comics or see him losing against one unworthy rival.

----------


## dietrich

> There's no way Damian/Jon conflict will be little. DC will definitely make Batman's son vs Superman's son as big as possible to attract common people and gain profit. Future Tim and LoH already gave us hint that their fight will be highly destructive and cost many lives of innocent. And we know how Damian and Jon feels about death of innocent people. That's what makes me worry. 
> I also hope if their big fight really happened it will have positive outcome. But please no innocent dying, if possible. For their sake.


Jon and Damian didn't have a fight in either of those.

Superman's son and batman's son did attract people and generated profit and yet DC cancelled them. Sometimes I don't know what DC's objective is.
It should be making money but decisions like Ric and cancelling Superson's aren't profitable. At least from what I can see.

----------


## Lvenger

> But I thought Jon and Damian learned from their fathers mistakes
> Why would they


Because if Bendis wants his own way, DC will bend over backwards to appease him. In spite of Didio's departure, Bendis seems to still hold a lot of influence at DC prior to the coronavirus.

----------


## dietrich

> I only saw that issue.. I am not superkid fan or fan about any legion character because I never readed one comic from the legion to want to read it..
> 
> Taylor.. I liked that he changed his mind with Damian..
> 
> *WHY THE INTEREST IN THAT CROSS?*  
> 
> I  am not interested.. The chance of see for example DARKSEID losing against someone that I consider weaker than him only makes me want to avoid that.


I liked the ideas a lot of writers put forward for which characters they would like to write in the crossover so I'm hoping that it does happen.

The crossover is being organised by I think Gail Simone and a host of other writers and editors from what I gathered.
I didn't see any writer mention Darksied in their pitch for characters they'd like to write.

So if it does happen then he might be safe. If it does happen, i hope they allow writers to write the stories they pitched with the character's they picked.
There were some interesting ideas.

----------


## dietrich

> Because if Bendis wants his own way, DC will bend over backwards to appease him. In spite of Didio's departure, Bendis seems to still hold a lot of influence at DC prior to the coronavirus.


How? Why?
 That guy must have negotiated one hell of a contract!

----------


## Digifiend

> I liked the ideas a lot of writers put forward for which characters they would like to write in the crossover so I'm hoping that it does happen.
> 
> The crossover is being organised by I think Gail Simone and a host of other writers and editors from what I gathered.
> I didn't see any writer mention Darksied in their pitch for characters they'd like to write.
> 
> So if it does happen then he might be safe. If it does happen, i hope they allow writers to write the stories they pitched with the character's they picked.
> There were some interesting ideas.


One of former Champions writer Jim Zub's suggestions was Teen Titans/Champions. I wonder if they'd use the classic team or the current one with Damian?




> I wouldn't be surprised if LOS or Superman was canceled.


Change creative team you mean. No chance of Superman getting the axe.

----------


## CPSparkles

Little Lads






https://twitter.com/OtterTheAuthor

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/97huayi

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/garnabiel

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/katomeee

----------


## Blue22

> https://twitter.com/97huayi


Man I miss these two. So much! Hurry up and kill the Ric nonsense, DC. Damian needs his dad back!

----------


## Jackalope89

> Little Lads
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/OtterTheAuthor


I'll be honest, I'd be Jon right there. lol

----------


## Yennefer

It's just sad that comics have lost the magic of the characters. From all the messages I have read, fans predict things based on the writers and the profit strategy... That's when you know a comic company has failed miserably to do its job. Also, hello again ❤️

----------


## Jackalope89

> It's just sad that comics have lost the magic of the characters. From all the messages I have read, fans predict things based on the writers and the profit strategy... That's when you know a comic company has failed miserably to do its job. Also, hello again ❤️


A guy even presented WB or DC with an animated Super Sons/Super Family series. A family friendly kind of series, but was flat out rejected (some sample images are floating around here and there).

----------


## Light of Justice

> A guy even presented WB or DC with an animated Super Sons/Super Family series. A family friendly kind of series, but was flat out rejected (some sample images are floating around here and there).


.....what the heck is DC's problem with family-themed superhero content?

----------


## Astralabius

> Man I miss these two. So much! Hurry up and kill the Ric nonsense, DC. Damian needs his dad back!


It doesn't list Damian specifically, but I'm afraid it's not unlikely that Dick is going to fight him in Nightwing #73 because Dick is under mind control:

NIGHTWING #73
written by DAN JURGENS
art by RONAN CLIQUET
cover by TRAVIS MOORE
variant cover by ALAN QUAH
The Joker knows Dick Grayson is Nightwing—and the plans The Joker has set in motion in this summer’s event “Joker War” will haunt Batman forever. Under the control of The Joker’s new henchperson, Punchline, Nightwing must battle the people he once loved most: Batgirl, the Robins, and…himself.

So Dick isn't really Ric anymore, but that doesn't stop DC from doing nonsense with him.

----------


## Light of Justice

> It doesn't list Damian specifically, but I'm afraid it's not unlikely that Dick is going to fight him in Nightwing #73 because Dick is under mind control:
> 
> NIGHTWING #73
> written by DAN JURGENS
> art by RONAN CLIQUET
> cover by TRAVIS MOORE
> variant cover by ALAN QUAH
> The Joker knows Dick Grayson is Nightwing—and the plans The Joker has set in motion in this summer’s event “Joker War” will haunt Batman forever. Under the control of The Joker’s new henchperson, Punchline, Nightwing must battle the people he once loved most: Batgirl, the Robins, and…himself.
> 
> So Dick isn't really Ric anymore, but that doesn't stop DC from doing nonsense with him.


Hmm on the same month and the same day teen titans solicitation said that Damian will take some revenge to KGBeast, and I think we've already discussed about how strange that Damian choose to take revenge so long after Ric shenanigans happened. Is it a coincidence or both of the issues are related? So probably what happened in Nightwing #73 is Damian's trigger to attack KGBeast? Like for example he almost kills Dick or Dick almost kills him. That's enough to make Damian snaps. After field trip to hell and recall his memories in hell, then Djinn war and probably one of his teammate doesn't make it back, then his confrontation with his father, the last thing he needs next is his beloved big brother attacks him.

----------


## Yennefer

> Hmm on the same month and the same day teen titans solicitation said that Damian will take some revenge to KGBeast, and I think we've already discussed about how strange that Damian choose to take revenge so long after Ric shenanigans happened. Is it a coincidence or both of the issues are related? So probably what happened in Nightwing #73 is Damian's trigger to attack KGBeast? Like for example he almost kills Dick or Dick almost kills him. That's enough to make Damian snaps. After field trip to hell and recall his memories in hell, then Djinn war and probably one of his teammate doesn't make it back, then his confrontation with his father, the last thing he needs next is his beloved big brother attacks him.


Maybe those issues establish the ground for Damian's new self... What I think it could be a possibility is that the confrontation with the Batman will go extremely wrong. They will be further apart and this, combined with Nightwing #73, will set him free from all of the boundaries the Batfam and the Al Ghul house has set. He denies the Al Ghuls because he knows they are villains and he denies the Batfam because he thinks they are inefficient. So I think this is why he took that much to act on his revengful ways.

So a whole new person will be created, the classic antihero with the extremely controversial moral system etc. and that's how we will enjoy our trip to the 666 and/or LOH's Damian...
As dietrich said... We have to make peace with the fact that we love an anti-hero/ borderline (baby) villain on the making....

----------


## Digifiend

I don't believe the April TT solicit is accurate. Was probably setting up 5G, but now that's on hold and TT's current run will be continuing. Nobody dies and Damian remains as Robin.

----------


## shadow6743

> I don't believe the April TT solicit is accurate. Was probably setting up 5G, but now that's on hold and TT's current run will be continuing. Nobody dies and Damian remains as Robin.


I am kind of thinking that too. Because if you look at the variant cover for Teen Titans in April the entire cast of the book is on the cover. I feel like 5Gs was Didio baby and now that he is gone no one cares about 5Gs. I mean April solicitations are out and there is not sign of that series anywhere. Also no one at DC can even say what exactly 5G is. I said series but is it a series of books? Is it a one shot like DC Rebirth? Does it just affect Justice League members? Where are the so called replacements like Luke Fox I haven't seen him in a book in years at this point. I really don't think 5G is happening anymore. Which I am fine with I am reading a lot of series I was interested in and like to see were they go. 

So far I recommend Freedom Fighters by Robert Venditti. I also really enjoyed Crimes of Passion. Also planning on catching up with Red Hood and the Outlaws, Green Lantern, Dectective Comics, and Nightwing. Also going to check out Robert Venditti's Hawkman series. Venditti to me is a really underrated writer he writes really well and I enjoyed his world building in Freedom Fighters. He takes what Morrison established in Muitversity and builds on it. If you like Multiversity and wanted a squeal to what happens in the Earth X story give Freedom Fighters a read.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I don't believe the April TT solicit is accurate. Was probably setting up 5G, but now that's on hold and TT's current run will be continuing. Nobody dies and Damian remains as Robin.


Maya, no! NOOOO!

----------


## Rac7d*

> Maya, no! NOOOO!


Tell me it’s not true

----------


## dietrich

> Maya, no! NOOOO!


lol. Good one  :Smile:

----------


## Jackalope89

> Tell me it’s not true


Digifiend confirmed it. We shall hold services.

On this day, we remember Nobody. Nobody is being put to rest now. RIP, Nobody.

----------


## Astralabius

> Maybe those issues establish the ground for Damian's new self... What I think it could be a possibility is that the confrontation with the Batman will go extremely wrong. They will be further apart and this, combined with Nightwing #73, will set him free from all of the boundaries the Batfam and the Al Ghul house has set. He denies the Al Ghuls because he knows they are villains and he denies the Batfam because he thinks they are inefficient. So I think this is why he took that much to act on his revengful ways.
> 
> So a whole new person will be created, the classic antihero with the extremely controversial moral system etc. and that's how we will enjoy our trip to the 666 and/or LOH's Damian...
> As dietrich said... We have to make peace with the fact that we love an anti-hero/ borderline (baby) villain on the making....


I will be honest here, Damian wanting to become a hero despite being raised to be a villain and proving that you can achieve that goal in DC got me interested in the character, so turning him into a version of Morrison's Red Hood (or something along those lines) would probably kill my interest. So no, I'm not going to make my peace with that, I'm simply going to stop buying and reading his character.

I also have a problem with "he breaks with Batman because his methods are ineffective" not because he doesn't have a point, but because we all know no matter what Damian does, he's not going to improve anything by choosing a different path. Crime isn't allowed to improve in Gotham and especially not because of something a character other than Bruce did. No matter what Damian does, he's going to fail and he's going to look bad while doing it.

----------


## Digifiend

Man, what have I started... nice joke, but of course you know I meant nobody, not Nobody. Maya's not even in the book. Only reason it was capitalised is because it was at the start of a sentence.

----------


## Astralabius

> I am kind of thinking that too. Because if you look at the variant cover for Teen Titans in April the entire cast of the book is on the cover. I feel like 5Gs was Didio baby and now that he is gone no one cares about 5Gs. I mean April solicitations are out and there is not sign of that series anywhere. Also no one at DC can even say what exactly 5G is. I said series but is it a series of books? Is it a one shot like DC Rebirth? Does it just affect Justice League members? Where are the so called replacements like Luke Fox I haven't seen him in a book in years at this point. I really don't think 5G is happening anymore. Which I am fine with I am reading a lot of series I was interested in and like to see were they go. 
> 
> So far I recommend Freedom Fighters by Robert Venditti. I also really enjoyed Crimes of Passion. Also planning on catching up with Red Hood and the Outlaws, Green Lantern, Dectective Comics, and Nightwing. Also going to check out Robert Venditti's Hawkman series. Venditti to me is a really underrated writer he writes really well and I enjoyed his world building in Freedom Fighters. He takes what Morrison established in Muitversity and builds on it. If you like Multiversity and wanted a squeal to what happens in the Earth X story give Freedom Fighters a read.


According to bleedingcool DC hasn't told their writers and artists to hold production yet, editorial wants to use the "break" to get late titles back on time or to get ahead on other books.
Some Black Label and 5G creators have apparently been told to cease production now though.
So maybe they'll use this unusual situation to kill 5G for good.

----------


## Restingvoice

> .....what the heck is DC's problem with family-themed superhero content?


Oh, that one they actually like, WB said they actually like the fun Superfamily Super Sons idea, but the reason they rejected it was, I believe because it's not in line with the animated universe they currently have. The one that originally based on New 52

----------


## shadow6743

I never been with the whole idea that DC is against family content like a Supersons animated show. In fact, with shows like DC Superhero Girls being so successful both in children's comics and as a television show Supersons would be perfect for a young boys demographic. Don't get me wrong DC Superhero Girls is very well written and you can tell was written by comic book fans due to all the references in it to the larger DC Universe. But I think Supersons would be a great animated series also.

The only reason I think it hasn't happened yet is because executives and marketers at DC probably already think the  majority of their products and properties appeal to young boys. Therefore, there is no need for them to make a Supersons show. Over the years there has been more of a focus on getting girls and young women interested in comic book properties. But the things these executives don't understand is that little girls love Robin and Superboy just as much as little boys. In fact, I have seen more girls on Twitter asking for Supersons to come back as a comic than boys. If its quality fans regardless will often watch or read it. Perfect example Wonder Woman as maintained popular because little girls and boys brought he comic for over 80 years. In fact, in the 1940s more boys were reading Wonder Woman than girls.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I will be honest here, Damian wanting to become a hero despite being raised to be a villain and proving that you can achieve that goal in DC got me interested in the character, so turning him into a version of Morrison's Red Hood (or something along those lines) would probably kill my interest. So no, I'm not going to make my peace with that, I'm simply going to stop buying and reading his character.
> 
> I also have a problem with "he breaks with Batman because his methods are ineffective" not because he doesn't have a point, but because we all know no matter what Damian does, he's not going to improve anything by choosing a different path. *Crime isn't allowed to improve in Gotham and especially not because of something a character other than Bruce did.* No matter what Damian does, he's going to fail and he's going to look bad while doing it.


Just to throw this out there; Judd Winick did it in Under the Red Hood with Jason's return. But since then, can't really say.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Man, what have I started... nice joke, but of course you know I meant nobody, not Nobody. Maya's not even in the book. Only reason it was capitalised is because it was at the start of a sentence.


No need to be bashful. Nobody deserves to be recognized! Nobody should be honored!

----------


## shadow6743

> No need to be bashful. Nobody deserves to be recognized! Nobody should be honored!


Side note on nobody she didn't disappear. She is on a team with Boyzarro, Robzorro, and Kathy in the Terrifics. I heard she is doing some cool things in multiverse. Will probably add Terrifics to my reading list my sister told me it was really good.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Side note on nobody she didn't disappear. She is on a team with Boyzarro, Robzorro, and Kathy in the Terrifics. I heard she is doing some cool things in multiverse. Will probably add Terrifics to my reading list my sister told me it was really good.


I'm still waiting for Damian's meeting with Robzarro XD

----------


## shadow6743

> I'm still waiting for Damian's meeting with Robzarro XD


I really want to see that too.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I'm still waiting for Damian's meeting with Robzarro XD


I can already imagine his eyebrow twitching at Robzarro trying to woo Maya, Kathy, Djinn, and probably most other people too.

----------


## Astralabius

> Just to throw this out there; Judd Winick did it in Under the Red Hood with Jason's return. But since then, can't really say.


Yeah, look how long that worked. Even if DC allows it for one book, you can be sure it'll fall under the table soon after.
In the end the story opened up the possibility to turn Jason into a crazy murderer for a few years before DC decided to tone him down again and since then people have argued over who Jason really is and if he can be forgiven.
That's not what Damian needs. I also doubt fans would be so forgiving if Damian tried to blow up Bruce and Dick or started decapitating criminals again. That's similar to where he started, not where he should go. I know enough people who already hated the prison arc and have since then stopped reading Teen Titans. No one I know is excited about the possibility of Damian going down this road even further.

----------


## adrikito

> It doesn't list Damian specifically, but I'm afraid it's not unlikely that Dick is going to fight him in Nightwing #73 because Dick is under mind control:
> 
> NIGHTWING #73
> written by DAN JURGENS
> art by RONAN CLIQUET
> cover by TRAVIS MOORE
> variant cover by ALAN QUAH
> The Joker knows Dick Grayson is Nightwing—and the plans The Joker has set in motion in this summer’s event “Joker War” will haunt Batman forever. Under the control of The Joker’s new henchperson, Punchline, Nightwing must battle the people he once loved most: Batgirl, the Robins, and…himself.
> 
> So Dick isn't really Ric anymore, but that doesn't stop DC from doing nonsense with him.


No MORE RICK NONSENSE? I would like that.. But the coronavirus will delay it..  :Frown: 

Fortunately what he said about Maya is fake. I miss her but I don´t want to see her returning to die in the same saga that she appears

----------


## Light of Justice

> Yeah, look how long that worked. Even if DC allows it for one book, you can be sure it'll fall under the table soon after.
> In the end the story opened up the possibility to turn Jason into a crazy murderer for a few years before DC decided to tone him down again and since then people have argued over who Jason really is and if he can be forgiven.
> That's not what Damian needs. I also doubt fans would be so forgiving if Damian tried to blow up Bruce and Dick or started decapitating criminals again. That's similar to where he started, not where he should go. I know enough people who already hated the prison arc and have since then stopped reading Teen Titans. No one I know is excited about the possibility of Damian going down this road even further.


Ahahaha I am the opposite, I love prison arc. At first I doubt it, because if Damian's prison security is as weak as Arkham Asylum then there's no point to claim that he has better solution than Batman's. Then Terminus Agenda happened and as Deathstroke said, it's brilliant! So only villains who obey him and stay in prison will live, and the ones who rebel will get out and die. About brainwashing plan I also has no problem, especially because Damian doesn't release those prisoners to normal life and keep them under surveillance so in case they can broke free from Djinn's magic and go rogue he can take care of them.
.....yeah my type is more like anti-hero than full nice hero (maybe I should change my handle name). 

So if Damian will go down and abandon 'pure justice', I will still support him. But I hope he will not kill. Not that I have problem with hero who kill, I love Jason even the Morrison one, but he promised to do not kill anymore in honor of his father. And I see Damian as someone who value honor highly. Maybe he can be an anti-hero who torture villains? Broke them but still let them live? As Djinn's said, there's fate worse than death, and Damian always says that he know 400 ways to torture people or something.

But it's only my (edgy) opinion. I think most of his fans prefer him to go to the path of light and redemption, and for me it's nice too.

----------


## Astralabius

> No MORE RICK NONSENSE? I would like that.. But the coronavirus will delay it..


Yes and no. The solicitations for Nightwing flip flop between using Ric and Dick and right now he has two sets of memories and doesn't know which one is fake (why doesn't he just google if Bruce Wayne got murdered...)
In #72 he's supposed to search for Barbara to fix this problem, but on his way to her he will run into Punchline. The Joker got his hands on the crystal necklace thingie the Owls used to control Ric in the previous arc and he's going to give it to Punchline to make Dick attack his friends and family.

So I wouldn't say he isn't Ric anymore, but he has his memories back and wants to end this situation.
Maybe Barbara will end the mind control by fixing his memory problem? Let's just hope he returns as Nightwing after this and DC doesn't put him back on the chopping block to make Bruce suffer during Joker War.

----------


## Astralabius

> Ahahaha I am the opposite, I love prison arc. At first I doubt it, because if Damian's prison security is as weak as Arkham Asylum then there's no point to claim that he has better solution than Batman's. Then Terminus Agenda happened and as Deathstroke said, it's brilliant! So only villains who obey him and stay in prison will live, and the ones who rebel will get out and die. About brainwashing plan I also has no problem, especially because Damian doesn't release those prisoners to normal life and keep them under surveillance so in case they can broke free from Djinn's magic and go rogue he can take care of them.
> .....yeah my type is more like anti-hero than full nice hero (maybe I should change my handle name). 
> 
> So if Damian will go down and abandon 'pure justice', I will still support him. But I hope he will not kill. Not that I have problem with hero who kill, I love Jason even the Morrison one, but he promised to do not kill anymore in honor of his father. And I see Damian as someone who value honor highly. Maybe he can be an anti-hero who torture villains? Broke them but still let them live? As Djinn's said, there's fate worse than death, and Damian always says that he know 400 ways to torture people or something.
> 
> But it's only my (edgy) opinion. I think most of his fans prefer him to go to the path of light and redemption, and for me it's nice too.


I'm aware there are people on this board who like this kind of stuff and I'm not trying to tell you that you shouldn't.
But the people I regularly talk to and from what I can tell a lot of people online? I haven't seen many who really love this direction, in fact I saw many people who strongly disliked it. A lot of fans are tired of DC playing with the idea of making Damian darker and feel like it destroys a lot of the character developement he went through over the years.

So even if not everyone would hate that direction, there are enough who would and I don't see how splitting Damian's fanbase would help the character.

----------


## dietrich

> Just to throw this out there; Judd Winick did it in Under the Red Hood with Jason's return. But since then, can't really say.


Tim cleaned up Gotham and even managed to have periods of weeks when no crime happened all without killing.

Bruce has also had long periods of the same. The reason why crime doesn't go away completely in Gotham is because we need books to read.

Just like the reason why Bruce couldn't kill Joker in UTrH was  already knew regardless of what bruce said in the story or what we saw in the story where Dick actually killed Joker for Tim and bruce brought him back.

There are something's that need to be status Quo but sometimes writers depending on the writer break that tradition.
Damian can end crime in Gotham only for Bruce to intervene or shenanigans to happen to bring things back to status quo.

We saw Tim do it in Rebirth

----------


## dietrich

Damian isn't about to break from batman. If he does then they what book is he about to be in? Someone a while ago said that it was either Robin or death for Damian and i will have to say that I kind of agree.

DC isn't about to give Damian a solo title under some unknown name. it's either Robin in Tt or Robin under the supervision of Bruce those are the two options for Damian.

I'm not sure how much those saying that Damian should break away from Bruce have thought about it.
#These aren't the day's when comics where big business and Dc had a handful of IP's 
these aren't the days when Dick Grayson broke away and went on to start what was to become DC's most profitable IP at a point.

Damian has had 1 solo and a team book cancelled despite good sales because reasons.

They denied Pat Gleason's multiple requests for a return to RSOB.
They denied Kelly and Lanzing their pitch for a Damian book.

I don't think DC is willing to invest  in a Robin title  despite Dick, Tim and Damian proving that Robin's away from Team's and batman can work

----------


## Aahz

> I also have a problem with "he breaks with Batman because his methods are ineffective" not because he doesn't have a point, but because we all know no matter what Damian does, he's not going to improve anything by choosing a different path. Crime isn't allowed to improve in Gotham and especially not because of something a character other than Bruce did. No matter what Damian does, he's going to fail and he's going to look bad while doing it.


The problem I have with this is that this is Jason's stick.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I'm aware there are people on this board who like this kind of stuff and I'm not trying to tell you that you shouldn't.
> But the people I regularly talk to and from what I can tell a lot of people online? I haven't seen many who really love this direction, in fact I saw many people who strongly disliked it. A lot of fans are tired of DC playing with the idea of making Damian darker and feel like it destroys a lot of the character developement he went through over the years.
> 
> So even if not everyone would hate that direction, there are enough who would and I don't see how splitting Damian's fanbase would help the character.


Yeah I understand. I also has a friend who know Damian from Supersons comic and horrified that Damian is...... darker than she thought. She refused to read current Teen Titans because of prison thing and when I tried to persuade her to read Terminus agenda because honestly for me that arc is amazing she just said 'what the heck he has a plan to kill all the prisoners! That's not Damian!'. But she loves RSOB and Batman & Robin. So I understand that most Damian's fans love to read his good potential, redemption and lighter side. And as much as I love to explore Damian's ruthless darker side, I also don't want him to lose his fanbase. Let's hope that my anti-hero imagination will not happen and DC let Damian develop toward goodness.

----------


## shadow6743

> Yeah I understand. I also has a friend who know Damian from Supersons comic and horrified that Damian is...... darker than she thought. She refused to read current Teen Titans because of prison thing and when I tried to persuade her to read Terminus agenda because honestly for me that arc is amazing she just said 'what the heck he has a plan to kill all the prisoners! That's not Damian!'. But she loves RSOB and Batman & Robin. So I understand that most Damian's fans love to read his good potential, redemption and lighter side. And as much as I love to explore Damian's ruthless darker side, I also don't want him to lose his fanbase. Let's hope that my anti-hero imagination will not happen and DC let Damian develop toward goodness.


Its funny I was on Twitter the other day talking to someone who created a Damian Wayne reading list and they did not put Teen Titans on the list. They told me that they didn't put it on the list because they felt it took away Damian's character development. In my opinion I feel like that view is wrong. Characters development does not mean that a character will never have setbacks or struggles if that was the case what would a hero have to overcome to become greater than what they are in the moment. People forget that Damian is not the only Robin to under go setbacks for character development. If you read Nightwing during the 90s Dick was angry. In the the 2000s Tim while dealing with the death of Connor tries to clone him. Additionally, during the period when Bruce was thought dead beats up Stephanie Brown out of paranoia. I remember people being upset especially by the Tim's actions during this time but both of the series I mentioned are considered must read for Tim's development as a character. Red Robin and Teen Titans. Not every defining moment for your favorite character is going to be sunshine and rainbows if it was think about it would you still want to read? 

Fiction often has a problem a hero has to overcome in Damian's case it's his relationship with Bruce and their separate views on crime. How can a character grow without overcoming any obstacles? They can't, that's why I never take the whole idea of Damian losing character development seriously. 

Also remember a lot of these characters have existed for decades there will always be a interpretation of that character your not going to like throughout their history. But comics often go through cycles where the thing you like eventually become the norm for a character again. Also, remember this too a lot of comic book fans have short memories the moment that a character is given a writer they like or a well received run they are fans again. 

So, I am really not worried about Damian's future.

----------


## shadow6743

> Yeah I understand. I also has a friend who know Damian from Supersons comic and horrified that Damian is...... darker than she thought. She refused to read current Teen Titans because of prison thing and when I tried to persuade her to read Terminus agenda because honestly for me that arc is amazing she just said 'what the heck he has a plan to kill all the prisoners! That's not Damian!'. But she loves RSOB and Batman & Robin. So I understand that most Damian's fans love to read his good potential, redemption and lighter side. And as much as I love to explore Damian's ruthless darker side, I also don't want him to lose his fanbase. Let's hope that my anti-hero imagination will not happen and DC let Damian develop toward goodness.


I just remembered about Batman and Robin that Damian killed Maya's father in that run and at the very beginning literally kills a bat in the cave in one of the first issue due to being angry. Also, Tomasi himself talks about how Supersons is not how he normally writes Damian in fact he says he nerfed his personality to have him fit in more with Jon. I just kind of wondering what is your friend's line in the sand on Damian being dark. Also, I remember being in your friends shoes and refusing to read the current Teen Titans run. But I realized it's not fair to say I don't like a book without giving it a shot. Now it's the book I look forward to each month. The prison was such a non issue once you read the book and only matters in the crossover with Deathstroke.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I just remembered about Batman and Robin that Damian killed Maya's father in that run and at the very beginning literally kills a bat in the cave in one of the first issue due to being angry. Also, Tomasi himself talks about how Supersons is not how he normally writes Damian in fact he says he nerfed his personality to have him fit in more with Jon. I just kind of wondering what is your friend's line in the sand on Damian being dark. Also, I remember being in your friends shoes and refusing to read the current Teen Titans run. But I realized it's not fair to say I don't like a book without giving it a shot. Now it's the book I look forward to each month. The prison was such a non issue once you read the book and only matters in the crossover with Deathstroke.


I think she hated it at first, but not long after Titus came and Damian became a vegetarian, also Damian killed Nobody because he was half-conscious and want to protect Bruce she kinda....tolerated it? (Even though I saw her wince when she looked the panel of Damian's finger drilled into Nobody's skull). She loves redemption plot, and she thinks that current Teen Titans erased those development. The thing is, Damian is a kid who literally saw blood and murder on the first day of his life, and raised to commit countless murder until he was 10. You can't just expect him to be heartful sunshine child just because his father said 'no murder!' and gave him dog. His ruthlessness came from his early assassin training, his arrogance came from his grooming as a prince of League of Assassin, and it can't be erased easily. That's what built Damian as a character, and if you want to erased that, means that you want to erase what makes Damian Damian. 

I also didn't like prison arc at fist, not because of morality behind it, but because to me Damian's private prison and his claim to find a solution better than Batman's is pointless without the proof that his prison is not as breakable as Arkham Asylum. The problem of Arkham Asylum is that prison is ridiculously easy to break out, to the point that I think if you get a job as Arkham Asylum therapist, you sealed your fate, you will either die or severely traumatized (popular example: Harley Quin. honorary example : Deathstroke's therapist and Arkham Knight's father), what's the point to compare a breakable prison with another breakable prison and claim that the latter is better? Needless to say Terminus Agenda solved that problem for me, I still remember how my hand shivered with excitement when they revealed the true nature of Damian's Terminus protocol. Plus Deathstroke's performance, he really live up to his reputation (as a grown-ass man whose hobby is harass teenagers). And of course, now Teen Titans is also the book I eagerly look forward too.

----------


## Digifiend

> No MORE RICK NONSENSE? I would like that.. But the coronavirus will delay it.. 
> 
> Fortunately what he said about Maya is fake. I miss her but I don´t want to see her returning to die in the same saga that she appears


I never said anything about Maya. When I said nobody, I meant no-one. Should've worded it differently.

----------


## dietrich

I've said it before development isn't always forward or positive.
Damian is a child and only made the choice to leave his mother and her ways 3 years ago in story time.
It's unrealistic that Damian's not going to falter.
What he is doing in the TT right now isn't because he is evil rather it's because he's good.
He isn't hardened like the rest of the No Justice crew who were able to shake off the death of billions.

The only problem's I have with Tt is that they had him wear a bomb [that's OCC]
They had Damian agree to be mentored by one who he doesn't respect and who his story is going in the opposite direction to Damian
They seem to be about to ignore that Bruce is doing exactly the same thing.

I don't mind Damian having a prison or mind wiping so long as he learns and he's shown to be deeply regretful.

I don't want Damian to be a bad but I also don't want him to be pure.

that's what I dislike about SS. Fans who met Damian through that don't know the real Damian and are always shocked when they find out that he's a lot more grim than cute smol faux grumpy bff.

I'm not that interested in reading lighter stuff or just reading stories where Damian is good. That is boring.

All Robin's have Dark sides. 3 have killed, one has grown to become evil batman. Tim Damian in all his possibly bad teases has never been evil. 
He has almost as many good futures as Dick Grayson so i don't think it's all that bad for Damian

----------


## shadow6743

> I've said it before development isn't always forward or positive.
> Damian is a child and only made the choice to leave his mother and her ways 3 years ago in story time.
> It's unrealistic that Damian's not going to falter.
> What he is doing in the TT right now isn't because he is evil rather it's because he's good.
> He isn't hardened like the rest of the No Justice crew who were able to shake off the death of billions.
> 
> The only problem's I have with Tt is that they had him wear a bomb [that's OCC]
> They had Damian agree to be mentored by one who he doesn't respect and who his story is going in the opposite direction to Damian
> They seem to be about to ignore that Bruce is doing exactly the same thing.
> ...


Thank you, I completely agree Damian has shades of grey like all the Robins. I just feel like the fans he gets from Supersons sometimes aren't willing to look deeper than Damian did a bad thing I don't like it. Instead of actually looking at his reasons. Damian is the most like Bruce in that Bruce Wayne often does things that would be considered bad because he genuinely believes it's for the greater good. Like I still look back at stories like Tower of Babel and genuinely think Bruce was right to have plans to take out the Justice League. To not have plans to take out the most powerful beings in the DC Universe is irresponsible regardless of how much Bruce trusts them.

I also I don't think Bruce would be upset with Damian but more worried about how his own methods have affected his relationship with his son.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I never said anything about Maya. When I said nobody, I meant no-one. Should've worded it differently.


Dangit, cat's out of the bag. Selina didn't like it in there. Nobody won't be forgotten. Spoiler for President. Robin the rich to give to the poor...

I'll stop now.

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/i/status/1245418314093953031

Damian as batman in Harley Quinn The Animated series season 2

----------


## Grandmaster_J

> https://twitter.com/i/status/1245418314093953031
> 
> Damian as batman in Harley Quinn The Animated series season 2


Oh wow look at that.. Hahahaha!  :Big Grin:

----------


## Astralabius

I think what some of you don't seem to realize is yes, Damian shouldn't be a sunshine child that doesn't suffer from any problems anymore, but that a lot or people are tired of the arc Damian keeps going through.
They're not interested in it, because they already read Morrison's take on it and then they read Tomasi's take on it, maybe they read Percy's take on it and now with Glass they dropped the book. And the idea of getting another "dark Damian" take isn't exciting either.

----------


## Light of Justice

For some of us who miss Super Sons, I found a great fan animation video about them. 

Screenshot_2020-04-09-19-38-33-255_com.google.android.youtube.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvuQVogm4ko

The animation is smooth and makes me wonder, again why DC won't let us have Super Sons animation series?

----------


## dietrich

> For some of us who miss Super Sons, I found a great fan animation video about them. 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvuQVogm4ko
> 
> The animation is smooth and makes me wonder, again why DC won't let us have Super Sons animation series?


I haven't lost hope yet especially since DCuniverse is now a thing.
There's DcSHg so why not Supersons?

----------


## dietrich

> https://twitter.com/i/status/1245418314093953031
> 
> Damian as batman in Harley Quinn The Animated series season 2


That's funny.

I thought they said Damian's voice actor wasn't available for season 2? This is a Nice surprise

----------


## Yennefer

That overside batman hood is soooooo cute on him 
Can I ask something irrelevant? Do you think the pandemic will push all the dates further? E.g. of JLD:AW or generally of the comics'

----------


## Rac7d*

> That overside batman hood is soooooo cute on him ��
> Can I ask something irrelevant? Do you think the pandemic will push all the dates further? E.g. of JLD:AW or generally of the comics'


It should release normal

----------


## Jackalope89

> That overside batman hood is soooooo cute on him ��
> Can I ask something irrelevant? Do you think the pandemic will push all the dates further? E.g. of JLD:AW or generally of the comics'


Physical copies may end up having problems being distributed, but otherwise, it really shouldn't be affected much.

----------


## Masterff

> Physical copies may end up having problems being distributed, but otherwise, it really shouldn't be affected much.


and translations in other languages could also be a problem at the moment...

----------


## Digifiend

Not really. That can be done from home. And Europe doesn't have the same distribution problems the US does.

----------


## Yennefer

well in my country this whole culture isn't popular anyway.. We literally have no comics, or we have SOME of the comics and in english. Definitely, if you want to keep up with the stories monthly, you have only internet.. So I didn't know how the pandemic would affect those who publish them ... 
In other news... Pattison's Batman will reportedly  get married and have a child with Catwoman. I guess this is the official and main direction we will follow... This paranoia is starting to make an appearance in every media...

----------


## Aahz

> Not really. That can be done from home. And Europe doesn't have the same distribution problems the US does.


Getting floppies in Europe (or at least in my country) is in general a problem.
Real comic book stores are super rare, while some new stands may have some, they are hardly a reliable source, for the most part it is easier to stick to TPBs.

I think most series are not even published as floppies and go directly to TPB, and for some series even only published as double sized TPBs that contain roughly 2 US TPBs.

Translated comics anyway lack behind a few month, I think the most recent translated issue of Batman that came out here is Batman #78.

----------


## dietrich

> well in my country this whole culture isn't popular anyway.. We literally have no comics, or we have SOME of the comics and in english. Definitely, if you want to keep up with the stories monthly, you have only internet.. So I didn't know how the pandemic would affect those who publish them ... 
> In other news... Pattison's Batman will reportedly  get married and have a child with Catwoman. I guess this is the official and main direction we will follow... This paranoia is starting to make an appearance in every media...


In fairness Catwoman does have a kid with Bruce and they were married. 
Helena was even in that Birds of Prey TV Show. 

Helena was here before Damian.

I was hoping for Dick Grayson since they had rumoured that Robin was going to be in it. 

I guess that means that the Robins aren't going to be in any of the movies that follow on from this universe. Can't see Bruce scoping out The Flying Grayson's for a kid to recruit and dress up when he already has one alive at home along with a full grown adult sidekick.

Hopefully the Nightwing movie is still in the works.

DC isn't known for following Official direction. Batman retired in his the last movie. He just up and left while still having many good years in him. He just choose to walk away and not even micro manage. That's pretty much the opposite of Bruce Wayne in the comics.

Rumours are rumours and this latest doesn't make much sense when you sit back and consider it. It's got so many Cons and very few Pros.



Edit speaking of direction:
this isn't Damian related but Anyone here who can should check out Gotham high. Bruce gets the Ian Wayne treatment but much worse. It's worth the read while in isolation and it's unintentionally funny

----------


## dietrich

> Getting floppies in Europe (or at least in my country) is in general a problem.
> Real comic book stores are super rare, while some new stands may have some, they are hardly a reliable source, for the most part it is easier to stick to TPBs.
> 
> I think most series are not even published as floppies and go directly to TPB, and for some series even only published as double sized TPBs that contain roughly 2 US TPBs.
> 
> Translated comics anyway lack behind a few month, I think the most recent translated issue of Batman that came out here is Batman #78.


I guess it depends where in Europe. Where I am depend's on the city. Comic shops are located in the most cosmopolitan cities. 

Comics are still fairly niche/new culture in Europe [England is the exception] compared to the USA and Asia

----------


## Yennefer

> In fairness Catwoman does have a kid with Bruce and they were married. 
> Helena was even in that Birds of Prey TV Show. 
> 
> Helena was here before Damian.
> 
> I was hoping for Dick Grayson since they had rumoured that Robin was going to be in it. 
> 
> I guess that means that the Robins aren't going to be in any of the movies that follow on from this universe. Can't see Bruce scoping out The Flying Grayson's for a kid to recruit and dress up when he already has one alive at home along with a full grown adult sidekick.
> 
> ...



when I say official direction I mean canon. What I meant is that this baby is appearing more and more in many media, perhaps because they want us to prepare us for another huge and permanent change of Batman's status quo. I don't know if it happened again... But this pairing and this pregnancy is literally everywhere at this moment.

----------


## Light of Justice

> In fairness Catwoman does have a kid with Bruce and they were married. 
> Helena was even in that Birds of Prey TV Show. 
> 
> Helena was here before Damian.[/SIZE]


Speaking of Helena a.k.a Huntress, what is her origin in Birds of Prey TV show? Because not long ago I stumbled upon Bird of Prey song video by coincidence and.......traumused (traumatized + amused). I have no idea how it can be aired on TV. Helena is not Batman and Catwoman's daughter on that show, right?
Oh, found Batboys version of it later did not help my mental health at all. Poor Bruce...




> Edit speaking of direction:
> this isn't Damian related but Anyone here who can should check out Gotham high. Bruce gets the Ian Wayne treatment but much worse. It's worth the read while in isolation and it's unintentionally funny


I haven't read it, but did Bruce lose all of his broodiness, like Ian Wayne? If it is, then what a shame. That's the most charming aspect of Wayne genes, IMO.

----------


## Yennefer

I am still searching this monstrosity online..... But I can't find it. :Frown:

----------


## Light of Justice

> when I say official direction I mean canon. What I meant is that this baby is appearing more and more in many media, perhaps because they want us to prepare us for another huge and permanent change of Batman's status quo. I don't know if it happened again... But this pairing and this pregnancy is literally everywhere at this moment.


Batman's daughter is mentioned at Doomsday Clock as part of 5G and she will save Batman's son(which one?). So I think it's only matter of time for Helena to appear on main canon. Even though I don't know how DC will handle Helena's age gap with the rest of Batkids.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Batman's daughter is mentioned at Doomsday Clock as part of 5G and she will save Batman's son(which one?). So I think it's only matter of time for Helena to appear on main canon. Even though I don't know how DC will handle Helena's age gap with the rest of Batkids.


Well, it could be Earth2 Helena, whom actually got along pretty well with Damian (once he found out who she was).

----------


## Aahz

> I guess it depends where in Europe. Where I am depend's on the city. Comic shops are located in the most cosmopolitan cities.


Maybe but finding one and getting there, is still often not that easy.




> Comics are still fairly niche/new culture in Europe [England is the exception] compared to the USA and Asia


 France and Belgium have afaik their own comic tradition, most other countries not really.

----------


## Yennefer

> Even though I don't know how DC will handle Helena's age gap with the rest of Batkids.


And Bruce as a baby - dad (And Selina as a baby - mom)... Unless they do a dramatic time pass it is an issue... (or make something like what happened to Jon Kent happen ?). If DC has a problem with showing families, then how is it possible to have baby scenes? And wouldn't it be awkward for this baby to be all the time off - screen?
Many people say that something will happen (the lost daughter etc) ... And this will be another thing that will make Bruce even broodier (inovation... "wow"). 
Either way I am not sure it will be good.

----------


## Rac7d*

> when I say official direction I mean canon. What I meant is that this baby is appearing more and more in many media, perhaps because they want us to prepare us for another huge and permanent change of Batman's status quo. I don't know if it happened again... But this pairing and this pregnancy is literally everywhere at this moment.


It is literally no where, comics are currently dead, thier is not current animation or live action depicting this

----------


## Light of Justice

> I am still searching this monstrosity online..... But I can't find it.


What monstrosity are you talking about? If you mean Gotham High online, I also don't know.
But if you means Bird of Prey song, here's the link 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMnJNjo2SGg

And Robins version

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDyN6zL6Ylk

Let's suffer together muahahaha

----------


## Digifiend

> Getting floppies in Europe (or at least in my country) is in general a problem.
> Real comic book stores are super rare, while some new stands may have some, they are hardly a reliable source, for the most part it is easier to stick to TPBs.
> 
> I think most series are not even published as floppies and go directly to TPB, and for some series even only published as double sized TPBs that contain roughly 2 US TPBs.
> 
> Translated comics anyway lack behind a few month, I think the most recent translated issue of Batman that came out here is Batman #78.


I'm not referring to US import floppies. British comics (2000AD, Beano) are still coming out weekly. Panini's reprints are also still coming out every month. I would imagine the same applies for translated comics in mainland Europe. It's only US comics that are being crippled by the Coronavirus.

----------


## dietrich

> And Bruce as a baby - dad (And Selina as a baby - mom)... Unless they do a dramatic time pass it is an issue... (or make something like what happened to Jon Kent happen ?). If DC has a problem with showing families, then how is it possible to have baby scenes? And wouldn't it be awkward for this baby to be all the time off - screen?
> Many people say that something will happen (the lost daughter etc) ... And this will be another thing that will make Bruce even broodier (inovation... "wow"). 
> Either way I am not sure it will be good.


DC does have a problem showing families which is why so far regardless of all babies only one hero has a kid who is a minor and he is the outlier that's Damian.
Jon got aged up because Bendis wasn't interested in Jon doing chores [as he put it] and DC wasn't happy about the focus on family
Bruce isn't a family man
Helena always comes at the expense of Selina and Bruce. Her story requires them to die. At least all the stories where we have followed Helena as Huntress or Batwoman have required her folks to die giving her the spotlight.

Regardless of the rumours DC is very much still the same.

Doomsday Clock we already know it's Earth 2 Huntress who has a relationship with Damian and who was also promoted as returning.

Earth 2 is coming back.

Tom King's Catwoman isn't canon and fans should know by now that King is a hype man.
The two weddings that turned into Bane manipulation to wed in our hearts should be enough to let us know that what he advertises is never what we end up with.

King's Catwoman is about as indicative of official direction as Teen Titans GO
The Reeves movie rumour I also doubt not just because it makes no narrative sense but because he would be copying Nolan

I don't think you should think too much about the rumour.

----------


## dietrich

> I'm not referring to US import floppies. British comics (2000AD, Beano) are still coming out weekly. Panini's reprints are also still coming out every month. I would imagine the same applies for translated comics in mainland Europe. It's only US comics that are being crippled by the Coronavirus.


I thought your avatar looked familiar. It is from the Beano right. My dad used to bring back those comics when I was little. There was a another character called Piehead in their book as well if I recall

----------


## dietrich

> Speaking of Helena a.k.a Huntress, what is her origin in Birds of Prey TV show? Because not long ago I stumbled upon Bird of Prey song video by coincidence and.......traumused (traumatized + amused). I have no idea how it can be aired on TV. Helena is not Batman and Catwoman's daughter on that show, right?
> Oh, found Batboys version of it later did not help my mental health at all. Poor Bruce...
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't read it, but did Bruce lose all of his broodiness, like Ian Wayne? If it is, then what a shame. That's the most charming aspect of Wayne genes, IMO.


That programme was abominable. So bad. Helena was Bruce's kid in the live action version but we never got to see her folks. It's just mentioned in passing.

The Birds of prey animated huntress isn't Wayne's child. I liked their song and that show. On that show Brave and the Bold. Damian is Selina's son which is trippy.

*spoilers:*
 Gotham High has extra pouty Bruce B' dub Wayne and his best bud Jack Joker Napier pinning over Selina . Fighting over her. She dating both of them.Being used by her and generally being led around by her till she dumps them both for Ivy.

This Bruce has a broody face but he's not broody he's a member of the Photography club, has the best parties, is openly love sick, campaign's for salads and has followers.
He's bland as heck.

It's such ridiculous self insert fan fiction it's crazy. Dick is a doe eyed Black kid that Bruce saves.
Alfred is Gay
Martha is the the rich one and she's Asian
Bruce is an offensive Asian Stereotype because the writer wanted to make him more relatable. pretty much saying in an interview that she made from Hong Kong because it was more believable.

It's implied that the reason Joker goes the bad is because selina broke his heart 
*end of spoilers*

It made me laugh so much.
Joker and Bruce being members of the photography club and Joker calling Bruce 'B'dub' is the best thing.

----------


## Jackalope89

Wow that is bad. Like bad fanfic bad. And not the funny crack fanfic bad either.

----------


## Light of Justice

> That programme was abominable. So bad. Helena was Bruce's kid in the live action version but we never got to see her folks. It's just mentioned in passing.
> 
> The Birds of prey animated huntress isn't Wayne's child. I liked their song and that show. On that show Brave and the Bold. Damian is Selina's son which is trippy.


Wow, there is an universe when Damian is Selina's son. I just knew that. I once found a fanfic which basically tell that Damian is actually Selina's son because both of them have green eyes, and Talia stole Damian's fetus from Bruce's true love woman's body. I felt like Damian will be extremely OOC on that fic, so I didn't open it. Nice for the author of the fic that their imagination is not completely impossible. 




> *spoilers:*
>  Gotham High has extra pouty Bruce B' dub Wayne and his best bud Jack Joker Napier pinning over Selina . Fighting over her. She dating both of them.Being used by her and generally being led around by her till she dumps them both for Ivy.
> 
> This Bruce has a broody face but he's not broody he's a member of the Photography club, has the best parties, is openly love sick, campaign's for salads and has followers.
> He's bland as heck.
> 
> It's such ridiculous self insert fan fiction it's crazy. Dick is a doe eyed Black kid that Bruce saves.
> Alfred is Gay
> Martha is the the rich one and she's Asian
> ...


Yikes. I have a feeling that the book can physically hurt me, so hard pass. The word OOC can't even describe it. Honestly, why didn't they just create new characters for that book?

----------


## dietrich

> Wow that is bad. Like bad fanfic bad. And not the funny crack fanfic bad either.


I know right. I don't get why DC makes decisions like this. This is not the way to appeal to Young Adults.

----------


## dietrich

> Wow, there is an universe when Damian is Selina's son. I just knew that. I once found a fanfic which basically tell that Damian is actually Selina's son because both of them have green eyes, and Talia stole Damian's fetus from Bruce's true love woman's body. I felt like Damian will be extremely OOC on that fic, so I didn't open it. Nice for the author of the fic that their imagination is not completely impossible. 
> 
> 
> 
> Yikes. I have a feeling that the book can physically hurt me, so hard pass. The word OOC can't even describe it. Honestly, why didn't they just create new characters for that book?




yeah in that universe Damian appears twice.
1st time he is Selina's kid who goes on to become Dick's Robin. Later it turns out to be Alfred writing fan fiction

Later he has another episode where he's grown up and is now Batman. In this one he isn't a figment of Alfred Imagination but I can't recall if we got his backstory.

The word is that DC approached a bunch of writers whose YA novels made it on to the newYork Best sellers list and aske them to choose which characters they would like to write.

The woman who wrote this said that she knew nothing about Batman and his mythos. So she took the bare bones she was told and wrote what she would like to read..

It's not fair on the characters to twist them like this.
Anyone who gets into this Batman would not like the real deal.

----------


## Aahz

> I'm not referring to US import floppies. British comics (2000AD, Beano) are still coming out weekly. Panini's reprints are also still coming out every month. I would imagine the same applies for translated comics in mainland Europe. It's only US comics that are being crippled by the Coronavirus.


I just checked the Panini site, it seems that in my country the only DC series that are published as floppies are Batman, TEC, Superman and Justice League (with one floppy containing two US floppies), everything else seems to be only published in trades.

Sofar it looks like the floppies are still published, but a lot of them are probably anyway going to news stands and subscribers.

----------


## OpaqueGiraffe17

> That programme was abominable. So bad. Helena was Bruce's kid in the live action version but we never got to see her folks. It's just mentioned in passing.
> 
> The Birds of prey animated huntress isn't Wayne's child. I liked their song and that show. On that show Brave and the Bold. Damian is Selina's son which is trippy.
> 
> *spoilers:*
>  Gotham High has extra pouty Bruce B' dub Wayne and his best bud Jack Joker Napier pinning over Selina . Fighting over her. She dating both of them.Being used by her and generally being led around by her till she dumps them both for Ivy.
> 
> This Bruce has a broody face but he's not broody he's a member of the Photography club, has the best parties, is openly love sick, campaign's for salads and has followers.
> He's bland as heck.
> ...


Oh so that’s what all the fuss is about, jeez I thought I’d been following Dc to the point where nothing could surprise me but that is something else lol. Well I guess I’m not the target audience, so sure why not, I guess..

----------


## Blue22

Okay. This is fucking adorable XD

----------


## dietrich

> Oh so that’s what all the fuss is about, jeez I thought I’d been following Dc to the point where nothing could surprise me but that is something else lol. Well I guess I’m not the target audience, so sure why not, I guess..


It is baffling. I'm not sure who this is for or why it's out there. The characters are not recognisable. Joker is the only likeable one and the one the reader ends up rooting for.

----------


## dietrich

> Okay. This is fucking adorable XD


This guy does so great video's

----------


## Blue22

> It is baffling. I'm not sure who this is for or why it's out there.


Yeah, that's been my biggest question since this thing was first announced. Why has DC suddenly decided to market to fans of lame, cliche, early 2000s high school dramas? I keep hearing people complain about it being "another SJW ploy" (God I hate when that phrase is used, unironically) but aside from Alfred being gay, Dick being black, and Bruce and Martha being Asian...just because (which is the very least of this comic's problems), I'm not seeing much of that either. This is just a...very confusing, uninspired, and poorly written mess.

----------


## Light of Justice

dickbats 1.jpg
Artist : @meruz (tumblr)

dickbats 2.jpg
dickbats 3.jpg

----------


## Light of Justice

dickbats 4.jpg
dickbats 5.jpg
Artist : @h-l-w (tumblr)

Suddenly I miss Dickbats and Damian Robin. Wonder what was in Gordon's mind when he saw that.

And I want to ask, is Teen Titans 41 or Nightwing 71 already out? They're supposed to come out now but I don't see any news about them and I can't find them on digital shop. Or they got delayed because of Corona virus?

----------


## Yennefer

> What monstrosity are you talking about? If you mean Gotham High online, I also don't know.
> But if you means Bird of Prey song, here's the link 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMnJNjo2SGg
> 
> And Robins version
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDyN6zL6Ylk
> 
> Let's suffer together muahahaha


I find them adorable!!�� Old animation was soooooo good!




> dickbats 4.jpg
> dickbats 5.jpg
> Artist : @h-l-w (tumblr)
> 
> Suddenly I miss Dickbats and Damian Robin. Wonder what was in Gordon's mind when he saw that.
> 
> And I want to ask, is Teen Titans 41 or Nightwing 71 already out? They're supposed to come out now but I don't see any news about them and I can't find them on digital shop. Or they got delayed because of Corona virus?


Ikr! DC's link for TT #41 leads to error, no digital shops (as you said) and most importantly the free comic sites have frozen.... Shouldn't exist an official announcement if they decided to stop publishing? But I find it logical. I mean, if everyone buys the comic online during the pandemic, what will happen to all those physical copies when the quarantine ends? So I guess, no comics for now... I suspected this thing when I couldn't find Gotham High (It was pure curiosity, I swear) ... I just hope that when the pandemic ends they will give us all the issues and not follow a monthly schedule.
And now I have started fearing for JLD release date. But if they delay this it would be coooool.

----------


## Yennefer

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ign...avirus%3famp=1

Guys. There was an announcement.

----------


## Grandmaster_J

> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ign...avirus%3famp=1
> 
> Guys. There was an announcement.


I assume this is the only thread you read. This has been talked about news for 3 weeks now. 

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...ops-deliveries

----------


## Yennefer

> I assume this is the only thread you read. This has been talked about news for 3 weeks now. 
> 
> https://community.cbr.com/showthread...ops-deliveries


*Feeling low-key embarrassed* Yup... 
Also, I only read the comics... So I have no connection with what happens with DC... So yeah.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Frontier

> That programme was abominable. So bad. Helena was Bruce's kid in the live action version but we never got to see her folks. It's just mentioned in passing.
> 
> The Birds of prey animated huntress isn't Wayne's child. I liked their song and that show. On that show Brave and the Bold. Damian is Selina's son which is trippy.
> 
> *spoilers:*
>  Gotham High has extra pouty Bruce B' dub Wayne and his best bud Jack Joker Napier pinning over Selina . Fighting over her. She dating both of them.Being used by her and generally being led around by her till she dumps them both for Ivy.
> 
> This Bruce has a broody face but he's not broody he's a member of the Photography club, has the best parties, is openly love sick, campaign's for salads and has followers.
> He's bland as heck.
> ...


I've enjoyed all the DC young adult graphic novels I've read so far, but this sounds like a bridge too far for me.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I assume this is the only thread you read. This has been talked about news for 3 weeks now. 
> 
> https://community.cbr.com/showthread...ops-deliveries


Guilty as charged. I only read batfam thread (Damian, Dick, Jason, Tim) and Jon Kent thread. Ah, so there will be no new comic until corona pandemic is over. 
Why do I always join fandoms when the said fandoms are on hiatus?

----------


## Grandmaster_J

> Ah, so there will be no new comic until corona pandemic is over.


Yeah, and it sucks. The last 3 weeks have been hell not getting any new comics. They couldn't have picked a worse time than this current month when I was looking forward to Nightwing also, the conclusion to Djinn War, and Batman finding out what Damian's been doing.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Yeah, and it sucks. The last 3 weeks have been hell not getting any new comics. They couldn't have picked a worse time than this current month when I was looking forward to Nightwing also, the conclusion to Djinn War, and Batman finding out what Damian's been doing.


And Goliath's return on Batman Beyond! I really miss that big floofness. Ah.. our unlucky fate..

----------


## Light of Justice

bruce 8 years old.jpg
Talented 8 years old Bruce in Alfred's memory

damian 9 years old.jpg
Talented 9 years old Damian in Ravi's memory

Both of them can make a club named "stubborn talented Wayne's caretakers whose died or gone because of DC's stupidity"

----------


## dietrich

> dickbats 1.jpg
> Artist : @meruz (tumblr)
> 
> dickbats 2.jpg
> dickbats 3.jpg


My favourite Dynamic Duo

----------


## dietrich

> I've enjoyed all the DC young adult graphic novels I've read so far, but this sounds like a bridge too far for me.


Mera was a standout for me.

Gotham High is something of the so bad it's good vibe so long as you are not a huge fan of Batman, selina, Joker and two face.

----------


## dietrich

https://twitter.com/langbuliang




https://twitter.com/Kamo_1981




https://twitter.com/97huayi

----------


## dietrich

https://twitter.com/sabi_sabi_gun

----------


## dietrich

> Yeah, and it sucks. The last 3 weeks have been hell not getting any new comics. They couldn't have picked a worse time than this current month when I was looking forward to Nightwing also, the conclusion to Djinn War, and Batman finding out what Damian's been doing.


I wonder if they'll release it all in one go once the Quarantine is over?

In the mean time I'm just catching up character's I like but haven't been following like Wallace West and really old stuff featuring characters That like like Dick and Jason's Robin days

----------


## Digifiend

> I wonder if they'll release it all in one go once the Quarantine is over?


No chance. July solicits aren't happening. Stuff will just be delayed.



> I thought your avatar looked familiar. It is from the Beano right. My dad used to bring back those comics when I was little. There was a another character called Piehead in their book as well if I recall


He's called Pie-Face, not Piehead. My avatar is Roger the Dodger.

----------


## Mosameen

https://twitter.com/PeterJTomasi/sta...107243009?s=19

So apparently Damian with superpowers arc was supposed to be longer.

----------


## Rac7d*

> https://twitter.com/PeterJTomasi/sta...107243009?s=19
> 
> So apparently Damian with superpowers arc was supposed to be longer.


The book was ending  :Frown:

----------


## Blue22

> https://twitter.com/PeterJTomasi/sta...107243009?s=19
> 
> So apparently Damian with superpowers arc was supposed to be longer.


Cant say I'm too shaken up that it wasn't. As much as I dont like that the book ended, I thought that the whole "Super Damian" thing lasted exactly as long as it needed to

----------


## Digifiend

Why did Batman and Robin end anyway? Wouldn't expect it to be cancelled because, well, it's a Batman book. And Rebirth wasn't to blame either, the timing doesn't fit that. So why didn't they get that final year?

----------


## Blue22

Because Tomasi's one of my favorite writers and the universe likes to conspire against me -___-

----------


## Jackalope89

> Why did Batman and Robin end anyway? Wouldn't expect it to be cancelled because, well, it's a Batman book. And Rebirth wasn't to blame either, the timing doesn't fit that. So why didn't they get that final year?


Well, one thing Tomasi said was that he and Jurgens had to fight tooth and nail for the more family oriented stories when they were on the Superman books (when not every story was "punch punch kick kick"), so I imagine it may have been something similar.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Why did Batman and Robin end anyway? Wouldn't expect it to be cancelled because, well, it's a Batman book. And Rebirth wasn't to blame either, the timing doesn't fit that. So why didn't they get that final year?


Bruce got amnesia.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Bruce got amnesia.


Forgot that happened.

----------


## Yennefer

> Forgot that happened.


Please, can you tell me  in which story is that? I've been searching it, found it once and now I lost it again...  :Frown:

----------


## Jackalope89

> Please, can you tell me  in which story is that? I've been searching it, found it once and now I lost it again...


Batman Eternal, I believe.

----------


## Digifiend

> Bruce got amnesia.


Oh yeah... forgot.  :Embarrassment:  

The book wasn't cancelled when Damian was dead though. They could've done the same thing again. Just as Robin was crossed out and replaced by a guest star's name, so too could Batman's. So they could've had arcs with, say, Red Robin and Robin, Batgirl and Robin, or even the name of a villain Damian is fighting, like when the book became Batman and Two-Face for an arc.

I'd have suggested it become Nightwing and Robin, but of course Dick was faking the dead at the time as Agent 37 in Grayson.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Please, can you tell me  in which story is that? I've been searching it, found it once and now I lost it again...


The arc is called Superheavy. The continuation of Endgame. 

Other books set in that era are
Batgirl of Burnside Vol. 2
Grayson Vol. 2
Batman and Robin Eternal
Robin Son of Batman 
Red Hood Arsenal 
Superman Truth
We Are Robin 
Batman/Superman and Detective Comics... I forgot the title... just go with Superman who looks like a bouncer with a crew cut and Batman that looks like a bunny robot

----------


## Aahz

> I'd have suggested it become Nightwing and Robin, but of course Dick was faking the dead at the time as Agent 37 in Grayson.


They did Robin: Son of Batman instead.

----------


## Rac7d*

Is justice league dark apocalypse still coming?

----------


## CPSparkles

> Is justice league dark apocalypse still coming?


I think it's out in May.

----------


## CPSparkles

> https://twitter.com/PeterJTomasi/sta...107243009?s=19
> 
> So apparently Damian with superpowers arc was supposed to be longer.


That's a shame. That story line was interesting and Damian with powers was a funny premise. I would have liked it to continue.
Bruce dealing with a super-powered kid by using the Jl to run his power out.
Curious. If his Chaos-Shard powers were juiced up by a blast from the Omega beam in the first place does that mean another blast will charge him up again or it completely gone?

----------


## CPSparkles

An Unusual line up





https://twitter.com/Kamo_1981

----------


## CPSparkles

DickBats and Robin



https://twitter.com/Bobby_Rubio



https://twitter.com/jopokepoke

----------


## Digifiend

> An Unusual line up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/Kamo_1981


That *is* unusual. Damian didn't debut until after Steph's Robin period. He actually became Robin at roughly the same time she became Batgirl.

----------


## CPSparkles

> That *is* unusual. Damian didn't debut until after Steph's Robin period. He actually became Robin at roughly the same time she became Batgirl.


i know. B.Q Miller's run was one of the run's that changed my mind on Damian.
I meant unusual in the sense that you don't normally get Bruce, Damian, Jason and Steph together.

----------


## Jackalope89

> i know. B.Q Miller's run was one of the run's that changed my mind on Damian.
> I meant unusual in the sense that you don't normally get Bruce, Damian, Jason and Steph together.


You forgot Cass.

----------


## Light of Justice

> An Unusual line up
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/Kamo_1981


Is that katana in Jason's hand? Did he stole it from Damian? XD

----------


## Light of Justice

tumblr_op4io2xJyg1s5kwe5o1_1280.jpg
tumblr_op4io2xJyg1s5kwe5o2_540.jpg

artist : @ooO-Ooo (tumblr)

Character development?
Damian really got many changes since his debut until now. I hope DC explore it more, not only on his attitude and his moral code, but also on his lifestyle.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Is that katana in Jason's hand? Did he stole it from Damian? XD


During his solo stint (when Artemis and Biz were missing) Jason did have a sword on his back. Plus, he has the All-Blades (though those have had varying designs over the years).

----------


## Light of Justice

> During his solo stint (when Artemis and Biz were missing) Jason did have a sword on his back. Plus, he has the All-Blades (though those have had varying designs over the years).


Right, completely forgot about All-Blades. Just think that guns suits him more.

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/Kamo_1981

----------


## CPSparkles

Lads Meeting. Where Jon boi?






https://twitter.com/OtterTheAuthor

----------


## CPSparkles

Beyond Damian




Robin



https://twitter.com/glitter_dc

Damian



https://twitter.com/noenergybutlove

----------


## CPSparkles

Damian and Goliath





https://twitter.com/gothamtwinks




https://twitter.com/orangepie_want

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/langbuliang





https://twitter.com/gothamtwinks

----------


## dietrich

> Damian and Goliath
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/gothamtwinks


i miss these two.

Thanks for sharing.

----------


## dietrich

https://dopingues.tumblr.com

It's tough for Damian. The only one who answered the call and he gets the blame. Maybe next time bats calls for aid he should sit it out.

----------


## Light of Justice

> https://dopingues.tumblr.com
> 
> It's tough for Damian. The only one who answered the call and he gets the blame. Maybe next time bats calls for aid he should sit it out.


Is that Tim's monologues on the fanart? About him blaming Bruce because of Damian's state? If that is, then wow, I love any fanart about Tim shows care for Damian and vice versa. 

Yes definitely. I always think that Jason's "F*ck Batman" motto makes him the smartest member of Batfamily. Even Tim gradually stays away from Batman's mess and focus on his Young Justice. And you can hate Ric all you want but he does have a moment of peace with his girlfriend Bea when he was just civilian and not Nightwing the ally of Batman.Sadly their blood connection and his eagerness to make his father proud prevent Damian to do the same.

----------


## Blue22

The fact that Bruce has allowed Damian to blame himself for Alfred's death is so messed up that it helped him win back his "worst dad in DC" spot that Superman had originally taken from him. Like...clearly some time had passed between the events of King's Run and RIP. And yet it's implied that Bruce has not once tried to reach out to Damian, to console him and take the blame off of his shoulders. I don't care if he's mourning too, there is no excuse for that.

----------


## Light of Justice

> The fact that Bruce has allowed Damian to blame himself for Alfred's death is so messed up that it helped him win back his "worst dad in DC" spot that Superman had originally taken from him. Like...clearly some time had passed between the events of King's Run and RIP. And yet it's implied that Bruce has not once tried to reach out to Damian, to console him and take the blame off of his shoulders. I don't care if he's mourning too, there is no excuse for that.


What's wrong with Superman? Aside for letting Jon traveled into space with his grandfather (which at first Superman disagree but Jon ask for it because Supersons of Tomorrow event) I don't think he's a bad dad, at least compared to Bruce who punch his adoptive son because the said adoptive son voiced his concern of Bruce's failed relationship with Selina (and then had a gall to claim that the punch is some kind of 'secret code'), punch another adoptive son and banish him because of a 'sin' the son did unsuccessfully (I may be biased about this, but I always think that Bruce's no killing policy is ridiculous and Jason Morrison era is cool), punch Dick on multiple occasion, neglect Damian to the point that he doesn't aware that his 13 years old son use his money to build secret prison (World Greatest Detective indeed), did I already mention a point when Batman was ready to send Damian back to his murderer mother and grandfather because of some dream?
Unless you're talking about his relationship with Conner, but they are never exactly father and son.

For me, the title of 'worst dad in DC' is always reserved for Deathstroke. That guy just.... well he's a villain so that's understandable.

----------


## dietrich

> Is that Tim's monologues on the fanart? About him blaming Bruce because of Damian's state? If that is, then wow, I love any fanart about Tim shows care for Damian and vice versa. 
> 
> Yes definitely. I always think that Jason's "F*ck Batman" motto makes him the smartest member of Batfamily. Even Tim gradually stays away from Batman's mess and focus on his Young Justice. And you can hate Ric all you want but he does have a moment of peace with his girlfriend Bea when he was just civilian and not Nightwing the ally of Batman.Sadly their blood connection and his eagerness to make his father proud prevent Damian to do the same.


Yep! Sometimes one has to put self love and care first especially in their line of work. Stressful, risky,often thankless.

However they are heroes. can heroes ignore calls for help?  Even when the person reaching out is a douche who'll likely hurt/neglect you in a heartbeat?

Someone who has given their live twice to save others. Who went to hell to save a team member would not.

I don't think Damian  could do that as much as I want him to put his emotional well being first he wouldn't be the character we know and love.

----------


## dietrich

> What's wrong with Superman? Aside for letting Jon traveled into space with his grandfather (which at first Superman disagree but Jon ask for it because Supersons of Tomorrow event) I don't think he's a bad dad, at least compared to Bruce who punch his adoptive son because the said adoptive son voiced his concern of Bruce's failed relationship with Selina (and then had a gall to claim that the punch is some kind of 'secret code'), punch another adoptive son and banish him because of a 'sin' the son did unsuccessfully (I may be biased about this, but I always think that Bruce's no killing policy is ridiculous and Jason Morrison era is cool), punch Dick on multiple occasion, neglect Damian to the point that he doesn't aware that his 13 years old son use his money to build secret prison (World Greatest Detective indeed), did I already mention a point when Batman was ready to send Damian back to his murderer mother and grandfather because of some dream?
> Unless you're talking about his relationship with Conner, but they are never exactly father and son.
> 
> For me, the title of 'worst dad in DC' is always reserved for Deathstroke. That guy just.... well he's a villain so that's understandable.


I don't know Bruce might be worse than Slade.

How many sons has Bruce lost in his war and is yet to learn to cherish them?
Remember when Bruce took Jason to the place where he died in an attempt to get him to jog his memory so he can use the knowledge to Bring back Damian?

That is by far the worst thing bruce has done. Parent's are supposed to love all their kids equally [or at least not make it clear that they value one over the other] but went out of his way to traumatise one kid to help another.

On the No Killing rule, I have no issue's with what happened with Jason. His writer didn't need to write that agreement or the fallout.

I like a Jason that kills just like I like batman666 but Bruce's rule is his rule. It literally didn't have to be a thing in RHATO.

Same with TT and the secret Prison. I only hold Bruce accountable to what his writers in his title's write. Or what he does in stories that are about him and his development.
Stuff  like TT and RHaTO are simply others shitting on Bruce for the sake of Damian and Jason's plot.

Talking about TT how does Damian donate 2million to animals in one title and then have to steal in another?

Glass really didn't know Damian or didn't care about what was already established canon for the character.

The kid paid Slade 5million to leave Maya etc there was no need to write him stealing.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I don't know Bruce might be worse than Slade.
> 
> How many sons has Bruce lost in his war and is yet to learn to cherish them?
> Remember when Bruce took Jason to the place where he died in an attempt to get him to jog his memory so he can use the knowledge to Bring back Damian?
> 
> That is by far the worst thing bruce has done. Parent's are supposed to love all their kids equally [or at least not make it clear that they value one over the other] but went out of his way to traumatise one kid to help another.
> 
> On the No Killing rule, I have no issue's with what happened with Jason. His writer didn't need to write that agreement or the fallout.
> 
> ...


About Jason, Bruce is depressed and desperate. We know that depressed Bruce means more abusive Bruce. He lashed out to Dick post Jason death, and when he punched Tim post his failed marriage. Don't get me wrong, I didn't defend him, that action is still very messed up, but I don't think that means Bruce loves Damian more than Jason. 
I vouched for Deathstroke because almost all his children lost at least one of their organ because of him. He paid someone to kill Rose's adoptive parents and tried to manipulate her to the point that she gouged her own eyes. He got Joe's throat slit, made him mute. Stabbed and killed Joe on some point. And he horrendously neglects his children to the point that Joe thought that Deathstroke loves Damian more than his own children because he apparently loves to play with another person's child more than his own children. And Joe, honey, Slade's way of parenting is NOT a good thing. Slade killed a girl's dog in front of her own eyes because he thought that she better hates him. Slade tried to make Damian killed him with gun because he wanted to 'fix' him (and in the end, Emiko killed him, regressed her character development). Bruce at least adopted another person's children first before he messed them up XD XD

worst fathers.jpg
When we're on this, I wanna bring a panel when a pair of the worst and completely shameless father criticized each other's parenting method XD XD And this happened when they fought over Damian XD XD XD God I love Priest. 
Guys, you both are the worst okay, none of you will get father of the year award. And it's doesn't matter that Damian has Bruce's blood or Priest want Slade to become Damian's father, Damian's true and best dad is Dick Grayson.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Talking about TT how does Damian donate 2million to animals in one title and then have to steal in another?


I assumed this is from Showcase New Talent 2018? If it so, isn't it from Catwoman's money (more exact money she stole from Penguin) and she made donation with Damian's name as a gift to the boy?




> Glass really didn't know Damian or didn't care about what was already established canon for the character.
> 
> The kid paid Slade 5million to leave Maya etc there was no need to write him stealing.


Yeah and he lived on his own when Bruce got amnesia. I think he's loaded from his mother's fortune. Talia is many thing, but it's canon that she spoiled Damian with riches. I remember once Damian said that his mother grant him an island on his birthday. So, perhaps he doesn't want to use his mother's money for Teen Titans's project?

----------


## Blue22

> What's wrong with Superman? Aside for letting Jon traveled into space with his grandfather (which at first Superman disagree but Jon ask for it because Supersons of Tomorrow event) I don't think he's a bad dad, at least compared to Bruce who punch his adoptive son because the said adoptive son voiced his concern of Bruce's failed relationship with Selina (and then had a gall to claim that the punch is some kind of 'secret code'), punch another adoptive son and banish him because of a 'sin' the son did unsuccessfully (I may be biased about this, but I always think that Bruce's no killing policy is ridiculous and Jason Morrison era is cool), punch Dick on multiple occasion, neglect Damian to the point that he doesn't aware that his 13 years old son use his money to build secret prison (World Greatest Detective indeed), did I already mention a point when Batman was ready to send Damian back to his murderer mother and grandfather because of some dream?
> Unless you're talking about his relationship with Conner, but they are never exactly father and son.
> 
> For me, the title of 'worst dad in DC' is always reserved for Deathstroke. That guy just.... well he's a villain so that's understandable.


Probably should have made it clearer but that part wasn't meant to be taken (completely) seriously lol.

I'm well aware there are WAY worse fathers in the DCU than both Bruce and Clark. Those two just happen to be my least favorite dads at the moment XD

----------


## Yennefer

I see triggers everywhere in this page ... xD

----------


## CPSparkles

Damian and Jason



https://drawing-cookie.tumblr.com

----------


## CPSparkles

> I see triggers everywhere in this page ... xD


I know right  :Frown:

----------


## CPSparkles

> Probably should have made it clearer but that part wasn't meant to be taken (completely) seriously lol.
> 
> I'm well aware there are WAY worse fathers in the DCU than both Bruce and Clark. Those two just happen to be my least favorite dads at the moment XD


I get what you mean. Clark's is so frustrating and annoying because prior we were getting such wholesome good SuperDad content from Tomasi and Gleason.

----------


## Light of Justice

According to newsrama, on May 26 Teen Titans #41 and Batman Beyond #43 will be available on digital platform and comic book stores that ordered their DC titles through new distributor Lunar and UCS.
And comics ordered via Diamond will go on sale on Wednesday, May 27

https://www.newsarama.com/50000-offi...19-may-26.html

----------


## adrikito

THANKS. Finally News about the TTs and Damian.

----------


## Rac7d*

That link is dead

----------


## Light of Justice

> That link is dead


Yeah, I wonder why.. When I went to the link 3 hours ago, the link is fine.. 
I hope that doesn't mean another delay

----------


## Light of Justice

> That link is dead


Try open the link from their twitter page, it's still active
Screenshot_2020-04-29-17-59-49-763_com.twitter.android.jpg
Screenshot_2020-04-29-18-07-01-902_com.twitter.android.jpg

----------


## Grandmaster_J

> According to newsrama, on May 26 Teen Titans #41 and Batman Beyond #43 will be available on digital platform and comic book stores that ordered their DC titles through new distributor Lunar and UCS.
> And comics ordered via Diamond will go on sale on Wednesday, May 27
> 
> https://www.newsarama.com/50000-offi...19-may-26.html


Great... guess I can wait another Month. I read the news couple of days ago but no news on The Annual #2 release...

----------


## Grandmaster_J

Damian Presley

damian.jpg

Art by Javi Fernandez

----------


## Yennefer

> Damian Presley
> 
> damian.jpg
> 
> Art by Javi Fernandez


What are they doing there? O.O

----------


## Astralabius

> https://dopingues.tumblr.com
> 
> It's tough for Damian. The only one who answered the call and he gets the blame. Maybe next time bats calls for aid he should sit it out.


Damian wasn't the only one who answered the call, Tim, Duke, Cass, Helena, Barbara and Kate did too.
Bruce selected Damian for entering Gotham and becoming the new hostage (after Alfred was supposed to have gotten away) because he counted on Thomas not being able to kill Damian aka his grandson when Bane would give the order to kill the hostage once Bruce came back to the city.
Damian's other task was to get himself free, get the other waiting bats through the security around the manor and take out Thomas together while Bruce and Selina take care of Bane.
It's an incredibly irresponsible plan of Bruce (that deserved to go wrong, in more ways than it did), but it also means nothing in City of Bane was Damian's idea or his fault. It only looked like that in 77 and if you read 79+81 the picture becomes clearer.

Pennyworth RIP acting like Damian "forced Bane's hand" simply doesn't match up with what went down in the story it's talking about.

----------


## Astralabius

> Probably should have made it clearer but that part wasn't meant to be taken (completely) seriously lol.
> 
> I'm well aware there are WAY worse fathers in the DCU than both Bruce and Clark. Those two just happen to be my least favorite dads at the moment XD


Bruce is probably the worst father on the DC hero side right now. Or at least he's the most prominent hero who is a bad father in DC.

----------


## DragonPiece

Bendis mentioned during his q&a on DC Universe he has big plans for talia and damian in event levithan checkmate https://twitter.com/onlymearibee/sta...37840848961536

----------


## adrikito

> Bendis mentioned during his q&a on DC Universe he has big plans for talia and damian in event levithan checkmate https://twitter.com/onlymearibee/sta...37840848961536


I am now scared.. More than ever after what he made with him in LEGION. Insult our fanbase.

----------


## Light of Justice

> What are they doing there? O.O


From the artist's IG that's a panel from teen titans 42. On teen titans 40 his hair was normal, 
RCO004_1584522841.jpg
and on teen titans 42, his under hair is completely shaven. There's 2 possibilities: 
1. after his collision with Bruce, he's upset, feel rebellious, and shave his hair 
2. after his collision with Bruce, he's upset, feel rebellious, detach the bomb from his hair, and activated it somewhere

And I see the R "Robin" badge on his clothes, Teen Titans annual #2 cover you big liar

----------


## Light of Justice

> Damian Presley
> 
> damian.jpg
> 
> Art by Javi Fernandez


From the artist's IG that's a panel from teen titans 42. On teen titans 40 his hair was normal, 
RCO004_1584522841.jpg
and on teen titans 42, his under hair is completely shaven. There's 2 possibilities: 
1. after his collision with Bruce, he's upset, feel rebellious, and shave his hair 
2. after his collision with Bruce, he's upset, feel rebellious, detach the bomb from his hair, and activated it somewhere

And I see the R "Robin" badge on his clothes, Teen Titans annual #2 cover you big liar

----------


## Light of Justice

> What are they doing there? O.O


Dunno, but because that picture is from teen titans 42, there's some points that can we take from that picture

1. He's still has Robin badge on his chest (Teen Titans annual #2 cover and solicitation is completely fake, or only temporary)
2. Damian crouched in front of a book (The Book of Damned?) with scowling face (but that's kinda his default face)
3. There's some kind of police line around Damian and the book and nearly all of his teammate are on outside of it
4. Djinn is nowhere to be seen, also Emiko but there's a panel of teen titans 42 on Javis's IG with Emiko in it. Djinn can't make it back?
5. I like Crush's belt

----------


## Light of Justice

> Bendis mentioned during his q&a on DC Universe he has big plans for talia and damian in event levithan checkmate https://twitter.com/onlymearibee/sta...37840848961536


Attachment 96140

His name is Damian. Dami*A*n. Seriously, is it that hard for you, Bendis? Now like @andrikito I am also low-key scared, if he will write him like on Event Leviathan.....

----------


## Masterff

> His name is Damian. Dami*A*n. Seriously, is it that hard for you, Bendis? Now like @andrikito I am also low-key scared, if he will write him like on Event Leviathan.....


Its Funny-nowadays also Kon-El gets written many times as ConnOr Kent instead of ConnEr Kent....dont know why.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Its Funny-nowadays also Kon-El gets written many times as ConnOr Kent instead of ConnEr Kent....dont know why.


I always thought it's Connor because seeing Conner gives me the same feeling as Damien to Damian. It's not neat since it's not using the same letter, "o" and "a", instead, replacing the latter letter with "e".

----------


## Grandmaster_J

> From the artist's IG that's a panel from teen titans 42. On teen titans 40 his hair was normal, 
> Attachment 96139
> and on teen titans 42, his under hair is completely shaven. There's 2 possibilities: 
> 1. after his collision with Bruce, he's upset, feel rebellious, and shave his hair 
> 2. after his collision with Bruce, he's upset, feel rebellious, detach the bomb from his hair, and activated it somewhere
> 
> And I see the R "Robin" badge on his clothes, Teen Titans annual #2 cover you big liar


I know, he's hashtagged some as 40, 41, and 42. He's said to be the artist of the Annual #2 but not of any of those from solicitations but no big deal.
And Lol sorry to anyone to had goosebumps about him losing the mantle but it's a nice hook.

----------


## Yennefer

In the pics he seems to feel remorse..When I first saw it I felt like he was being judged... Also, in TT #42 the same artist published an image of Alfred... On 80th anniversary, though, he was dead.... My guess is what we are going to see in TT may be a small flashback, so Damian will lose his mantle (?). Dunno...

----------


## Jackalope89

> Attachment 96140
> 
> His name is Damian. Dami*A*n. *Seriously, is it that hard for you, Bendis?* Now like @andrikito I am also low-key scared, if he will write him like on Event Leviathan.....


I guessing so. Because each time he writes the name independently (not in a comic where an editor can fix it), its always "Damien". As for the way he writes him...

This is the same guy that claimed to love the Super Family in Rebirth, and then promptly aged Jon into a teen, turned Lois into an apathetic mother that cared more about the next story than her own son and husband, and Clark into a crybaby (wallowing in the janitor's closet, within a week of Jon and Lois leaving!). All in ONE storyline, Man of Steel!

Bendis is one of those bad fanfic writers that can get one character right, and then gets about everything else wrong while trying to make everything his own. Even the origin.

----------


## Digifiend

> According to newsrama, on May 26 Teen Titans #41 and Batman Beyond #43 will be available on digital platform and comic book stores that ordered their DC titles through new distributor Lunar and UCS.
> And comics ordered via Diamond will go on sale on Wednesday, May 27
> 
> https://www.newsarama.com/50000-offi...19-may-26.html





> Yeah, I wonder why.. When I went to the link 3 hours ago, the link is fine.. 
> I hope that doesn't mean another delay


Because you posted the message somewhere else I assume, and copy pasted a truncated link. 

The highlighted part here is the problem: 50000-offi*...*19-may-26.html

----------


## Light of Justice

> Because you posted the message somewhere else I assume, and copy pasted a truncated link. 
> 
> The highlighted part here is the problem: 50000-offi*...*19-may-26.html


Yes, you are right..*feeling embarrassed*
Thanls for your suggestion, already fixed it

----------


## Blue22

> Bendis mentioned during his q&a on DC Universe he has big plans for talia and damian in event levithan checkmate https://twitter.com/onlymearibee/sta...37840848961536


Oh for fuck's sake. Bendis...just....stick to what you know and the characters that you know.

----------


## Blue22

So...as I expected, the Damian and Raven stuff ended up being one of my least favorite parts of Apokalips War...But not for the reason I expected. Honestly, for as much as I don't care for that ship, I thought it was handled pretty well throughout most of the movie...That is until near the end when:

*spoilers:*
Raven's says "I love you" and her magical Disney princess tears bring Damian back to life. If my eyes rolled any harder during that scene, they would have gotten stuck in the back of my head. That cliche is bad enough when kids movies do it; so it just felt extra contrived and out of place in a movie like this. I think what really fucks it up for me is that it was the only time I was actually okay with Damian dying lol
*end of spoilers*

----------


## AmiMizuno

Well, Apokalips is the last movie in the shared universe or at least this version of the shared universe. I wonder if they will do the shared universe animated movie again

----------


## Yennefer

Guys... I couldn't not watch the film.... I knew I would see spoilers through these months... The movie literally ENDED ME!

*spoilers:*
So in the end they practically all died, right? Their timeline collapsed.... It was SOOOOO hard that Damian and Raven saw the end and kissed right there!!! Also, the scene between Bruce and Damian was something else... Blew my mind! Also, the fact that heroes were dying so fast - the directors didn't want to give much gravity to that I guess- but the most heartbreaking scene was at the end, where they were all destroyed and we got to see the consequences of the war in their lives.... And the quote in the beginning.........
*end of spoilers*



*A VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION:* 
*spoilers:*
So, that means this was the end of Damian as we know him from DCAMU right? In the next animated movies/ universe (rebirth or whatever) he may have never been born right (and even if he is... He is definately going to be very different)?
*end of spoilers*
Such a sad end. But THIS is what we are talking about. DC took sad endings to another level..... I am shaken and shocked and WOW!

----------


## Jackalope89

Yeah, when I learned it was going to be a bloodbath film, I decided to skip it. And honestly, kind of been hoping for a "Rebirth Reboot" for the animated filmverse for awhile. 

Don't get me wrong, certain films like Long Halloween, Ninja, and JL vs FF should be their own things. But the New52 setting had irked me for awhile.

----------


## Digifiend

> So...as I expected, the Damian and Raven stuff ended up being one of my least favorite parts of Apokalips War...But not for the reason I expected. Honestly, for as much as I don't care for that ship, I thought it was handled pretty well throughout most of the movie...That is until near the end when:
> 
> *spoilers:*
> Raven's says "I love you" and her magical Disney princess tears bring Damian back to life. If my eyes rolled any harder during that scene, they would have gotten stuck in the back of my head. That cliche is bad enough when kids movies do it; so it just felt extra contrived and out of place in a movie like this. I think what really fucks it up for me is that it was the only time I was actually okay with Damian dying lol
> *end of spoilers*


Not the first time that's happened in an action franchise. *spoilers:*
Power Rangers in Space's last episode, red ranger Andros is crying because his sister Karone, who'd been the season's brainwashed main villain Astronema, was dead. His tears revived her, and she became the pink ranger halfway through the following season (after the original Lost Galaxy pink ranger had to be written out due to the actress getting cancer).
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Rac7d*

I want a etrigan and Damian team up

----------


## Blue22

> Not the first time that's happened in an action franchise. *spoilers:*
> Power Rangers in Space's last episode, red ranger Andros is crying because his sister Karone, who'd been the season's brainwashed main villain Astronema, was dead. His tears revived her, and she became the pink ranger halfway through the following season (after the original Lost Galaxy pink ranger had to be written out due to the actress getting cancer).
> *end of spoilers*



Yep. And it was stupid there too, and made even less sense. Whole rest of the finale was fantastic. But I hate. That. Trope. Leave it in Beauty and the Beast.

Also, dude we're both on ***********. You don't gotta rangersplain to me lol

----------


## Grandmaster_J

> Not the first time that's happened in an action franchise. *spoilers:*
> Power Rangers in Space's last episode, red ranger Andros is crying because his sister Karone, who'd been the season's brainwashed main villain Astronema, was dead. His tears revived her, and she became the pink ranger halfway through the following season (after the original Lost Galaxy pink ranger had to be written out due to the actress getting cancer).
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
Lol! I remember that, it's been theorized that Zordon's wave managed to hit her and thus the tears weren't the actual reason to some. I beg to differ.. plus the following season when helping Leo retrieve the battlized armor her tears revived the warrior. PR for ya.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Blue22

> *spoilers:*
> plus the following season when helping Leo retrieve the battlized armor her tears revived the warrior. PR for ya.
> *end of spoilers*


Good God, I forgot about that. Guess the denizens of KO-35 are all a bunch of Pink Diamonds XD

----------


## dietrich

JLD 2 Darkseid War Review Non Spoiler

----------


## Yennefer

I can't help it....... I think of it again and again and again and I can't concieve it fully mentally.... could someone explain the movie's end? (I am sorry to bring this up once again)

*spoilers:*
I mean... did they die? or are they still alive, but their earth is not prime anymore? Wikipedia said that "Damian and Raven embrace as the universe is erased, the heroes optimistic about their future as they disappear into the unknown." Do they cease to exist or do they end up in another reality parallel to the prime earth of rebirth.......?
*end of spoilers*

I can't get this concept right............

----------


## Mosameen

> I can't help it....... I think of it again and again and again and I can't concieve it fully mentally.... could someone explain the movie's end? (I am sorry to bring this up once again)
> 
> *spoilers:*
> I mean... did they die? or are they still alive, but their earth is not prime anymore? Wikipedia said that "Damian and Raven embrace as the universe is erased, the heroes optimistic about their future as they disappear into the unknown." Do they cease to exist or do they end up in another reality parallel to the prime earth of rebirth.......?
> *end of spoilers*
> 
> I can't get this concept right............


*spoilers:*
The flash went back in time and created another flashpoint where the invasion failed in other words he created another reality
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Yennefer

> *spoilers:*
> The flash went back in time and created another flashpoint where the invasion failed in other words he created another reality
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
 So the flash is the only one who survived from this reality... Right? 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Light of Justice

https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2020/0...ay-comic-books

June schedule 
Tuesday, June 2 =
-Event Leviathan : Checkmate #1 
Tuesday, June 23 =
-Batman Beyond #44
-Teen Titans #42

But I don't find any information about Teen Titans annual #2 release date, wonder why. I mean, from the solicitation, Teen Titans 42 will be happened after annual, right? Or does anyone knows any information about teen titans annual #2?

----------


## Grandmaster_J

> https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2020/0...ay-comic-books
> 
> June schedule 
> Tuesday, June 2 =
> -Event Leviathan : Checkmate #1 
> Tuesday, June 23 =
> -Batman Beyond #44
> -Teen Titans #42
> 
> But I don't find any information about Teen Titans annual #2 release date, wonder why. I mean, from the solicitation, Teen Titans 42 will be happened after annual, right? Or does anyone knows any information about teen titans annual #2?


Thx for posting and yeah I've been looking for about 2 weeks on any info on the Annuals release and nothing. 42 takes place directly after the "chat" with Batman so who knows what DC is doing.

I figured they release it early June with 42 towards the end.

----------


## RisingForce

I love the character and how they write for him but I haven't read too many stories with him unfortunately.

----------


## dietrich

> I love the character and how they write for him but I haven't read too many stories with him unfortunately.


Welcome to the Forum. 

Batman and Robin,  Batman v TMnT, Robin Son of Batman, Supersons are some standouts. 
Great enjoyable reads even for general audience. Not just for hard core Robin fans

----------


## dietrich

i see DCeased 2 is out in June. Can't wait for this title.

----------


## dietrich

> I want a etrigan and Damian team up


That sounds quite interesting. Damian and magic users is something I want to see more

----------


## Rac7d*

> That sounds quite interesting. Damian and magic users is something I want to see more


His family history with Resurrection makes him and the occult quite compatible. and in fact i feel as if raven should shift herself from the titans and be  apart of Justice league dark.

----------


## Yennefer

> His family history with Resurrection makes him and the occult quite compatible. and in fact i feel as if raven should shift herself from the titans and be  apart of Justice league dark.


I guess damirae is over now ...... so, it is up only to the fanfictioners to keep this ship alive... or floating.



As far as the annual #2 is concerned... Please tell me that up until this point DC hasn't cancelled a printed issue.... 
I mean, the day of release was close when they decided the shut down. So, even a few copiew must have been printed and therefore sold....
Why spend paper and money in something you won't publish? I suppose, just because it is a very special issue, they are keeping it in the dark for now...

----------


## Rac7d*

> I guess damirae is over now ...... so, it is up only to the fanfictioners to keep this ship alive... or floating.
> 
> 
> 
> As far as the annual #2 is concerned... Please tell me that up until this point DC hasn't cancelled a printed issue.... 
> I mean, the day of release was close when they decided the shut down. So, even a few copiew must have been printed and therefore sold....
> Why spend paper and money in something you won't publish? I suppose, just because it is a very special issue, they are keeping it in the dark for now...


I guess dickfire is over too

----------


## Light of Justice

> i see DCeased 2 is out in June. Can't wait for this title.


Yes, on June 30. Looking forward for it as well, especially interaction between Jon and Damian as Superman and Batman. My only problem is Damian's Bat costume. I really like his Batman666 costume and I hate outside panty. So. Much. Literally the reason I choose Marvel over DC before I met Damian.

----------


## Yennefer

> Yes, on June 30. Looking forward for it as well, especially interaction between Jon and Damian as Superman and Batman. My only problem is Damian's Bat costume. I really like his Batman666 costume and I hate outside panty. So. Much. Literally the reason I choose Marvel over DC before I met Damian.


I don't know about sups, but uh.... Batman is dressed up so he can fill the heart of his enemies with fear.... SO THE PANTY IS HOLLY. THE PANTY IS PART OF THIS PARTICULAR JOB. You don't get to talk about it........ THIS panty is what made those heroes that popular, that now they are printed on all today's boys' panties. And you dare to reject it.... 

Also... Damian with panty? xD

----------


## sifighter

> Yes, on June 30. Looking forward for it as well, especially interaction between Jon and Damian as Superman and Batman. My only problem is Damian's Bat costume. I really like his Batman666 costume and I hate outside panty. So. Much. Literally the reason I choose Marvel over DC before I met Damian.


I would take it into account that this is the uniform a dying Bruce left for him, so in the DCeased universe Damian probably cares a bit more about honoring his father as close as possible. At least that’s how I view his appearance. 

Plus I wouldn’t take the David Finch cover at face value, I’ve seen some previews of the book and it’s pretty clear that Finch drew the new DCeased Justice League on the covers more like the regular Justice League. Especially since Jon is slimmer in the previews then he is on the cover where he looks a lot more like his dad.

----------


## Grandmaster_J

> I guess dickfire is over too


Is that what they really call it? Ha.

----------


## Yennefer

God... I read a comment on youtube about the DCAMU Wikia.... 
So I searched Bruce, Dick and Damian... I saw their status... And damn it stung like hell, but at least it was a specific answer to what I was looking for....
Poetic finale. 
*moving on*.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Is that what they really call it? Ha.


Either that or Stardick. I don't know which one is worse

----------


## Light of Justice

> I don't know about sups, but uh.... Batman is dressed up so he can fill the heart of his enemies with fear.... SO THE PANTY IS HOLLY. THE PANTY IS PART OF THIS PARTICULAR JOB. You don't get to talk about it........ THIS panty is what made those heroes that popular, that now they are printed on all today's boys' panties. And you dare to reject it.... 
> 
> Also... Damian with panty? xD


Forgive me for I have sinned XD XD 
Really though, one of the reason Damian is my favorite Robin is because his costume doesn't show his panty to outside world (yes Tim, yours is still counted in my book). If Damian really will have costume with panty I...... still read it of course, his interesting personality is my main reason to love him, but perhaps i will put my thumb on his crotch while reading XD XD
Batman666 is my ideal type of hero costume. No outside panty. High black collar for menacing effect. No cape. But still there's layer to cover his butt.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Forgive me for I have sinned XD XD 
> Really though, one of the reason Damian is my favorite Robin is because his costume doesn't show his panty to outside world (yes Tim, yours is still counted in my book). If Damian really will have costume with panty I...... still read it of course, his interesting personality is my main reason to love him, but perhaps i will put my thumb on his crotch while reading XD XD
> Batman666 is my ideal type of hero costume. No outside panty. High black collar for menacing effect. No cape. But still there's layer to cover his butt.


What do you think of his Batsuit from Multiversity The Just?

----------


## Light of Justice

> What do you think of his Batsuit from Multiversity The Just?


My memory of Multiversity The Just is rusty, so I have to re-read and...

Plus : no outside panty. It doesn't look hard to wear, I can buy it if he can dress and undress that costume in less than 3 minutes (unlike some of hero's body suit). No cape even though I am not really against it. Edna will disagree with me, but I think hero needs cape to cover their butt when they literally wear outside panty, unless you have butt as gorgeous as Dick Grayson. 

Minus : pretty sure you can wear it outside on regular basis and it can pass as normal trench coat. I don't like some of hero's too grandiose costumes, but not that plain either. And Dami, where's your utility belt? What kind of of Batman who doesn't have utility belt which sure can make a girl’s heart melt? Even Chris has pouch belt, and I don't know why Supes need them, they obviously don't need that to keep batarangs (superangs?). Oh, and the lack of pointy gloves (I don't know what it's name) also a minus. I am still waiting for the day they use that gloves properly, like :
Batman (or Damian) : *will punch someone's face*
Villain : *tilt their head to left side* Ha, you missed!
Batman (or Damian) : *the pointy part of the glove slice their throat instead* It's all part of the plan.
Villain : Noooooo!!!!! *dies*

Or at some point they already do that and I overlook it? The pointy gauntlet came on rebirth, CMIIW

----------


## Korath

> https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2020/0...ay-comic-books
> 
> June schedule 
> Tuesday, June 2 =
> -Event Leviathan : Checkmate #1 
> Tuesday, June 23 =
> -Batman Beyond #44
> -Teen Titans #42
> 
> But I don't find any information about Teen Titans annual #2 release date, wonder why. I mean, from the solicitation, Teen Titans 42 will be happened after annual, right? Or does anyone knows any information about teen titans annual #2?


Considering how things seems to be moving at DC, I'm betting that Annual 2 has been scrapped and that issue 42 and following will be signifcantly different than what was hinted at first.

----------


## dietrich

> What do you think of his Batsuit from Multiversity The Just?


This along with the 666 suit and the BVS Desert scene suit are my favourite Batman suits ever.

It's less unique or iconically Damian but it's different enough to stand apart from the rest.

I always really liked that unlike the other Robins Damian as Batman always had a look that was his distinct from Bruce.

DickBats was different but only to a comic reader since Bruce did have the panty look as well.

The Just Batsuit is just so stylish and like LightofJustice said it can also be worn as regular wear all one has to do is take off the trench

----------


## sifighter

Honestly I kind of like that look, just a capeless batsuit with a trench coat on is a surprisingly good look. Give it a brighter bat symbol on the chest and a good utility belt and were in business.

----------


## dietrich

So with the isolation I got bored and finally finished City of Bane and I now reconsider Pennyworth RIP.

In Batman 83 it's made very clear that Alfred committed suicide to not be a hindrance rather to be a salvation. That was the reason why he lied to Bruce.

With this in mind I can understand Bruce not knowing what to say when Damian blamed himself [none of the others were privy to Alfred's suicide note so are unaware] How does he explain to them that Alfred choose to die?

Even worse Bruuce was onto Bane's plan even before City of Bane so he must be really blaming himself for his plan which allowed Bane to take over Gotham. [was part of the plan for Alfred to be taken hostage just like Bruce also planned for Damian to be taken hostage?]

Anyway reading Batman 83 it makes it harder to know how I feel about Bruce's silence.
I kinda understand that the writers [Tomasi and Tynion] might not want to get entangled in King's messy and idiotic narrative of having Alfred commit suicide and then tell Bruce he did it for his sake [King just doesn't know anything about this subject or trauma writing and he should stay away from the area]

I'm conflicted now and not sure what to think of Bruce's action's. Damian isn't to blame and Bruce should make that clear but Bruce is still dealing with the knowledge that Alfred killed himself. That is a headfuck.

Bruce also wouldn't want the family to know that Alfred choose to leave them. That will have a heavy impact on all of them.  I don't know how they deal with this going forward but I hope we get to see it dealt with.

Also what does this mean for 5g? If Alfred died so that Bruce as Batman could live on [Alfred knows that Batman saved Bruce from committing suicide aged 10 and believes he should continue]

What moves him to give up what Alfred gave his life for?

----------


## dietrich

> Honestly I kind of like that look, just a capeless batsuit with a trench coat on is a surprisingly good look. Give it a brighter bat symbol on the chest and a good utility belt and were in business.


Agreed. The simplicity make it work. Some hero looks eg Azbatsuit and 666 have the downside of looking too busy.

This looks like you can move, jump and kick in it

----------


## Light of Justice

> So with the isolation I got bored and finally finished City of Bane and I now reconsider Pennyworth RIP.
> 
> In Batman 83 it's made very clear that Alfred committed suicide to not be a hindrance rather to be a salvation. That was the reason why he lied to Bruce.
> 
> With this in mind I can understand Bruce not knowing what to say when Damian blamed himself [none of the others were privy to Alfred's suicide note so are unaware] How does he explain to them that Alfred choose to die?
> 
> Even worse Bruuce was onto Bane's plan even before City of Bane so he must be really blaming himself for his plan which allowed Bane to take over Gotham. [was part of the plan for Alfred to be taken hostage just like Bruce also planned for Damian to be taken hostage?]
> 
> Anyway reading Batman 83 it makes it harder to know how I feel about Bruce's silence.
> ...


First, I want to say that for me Bruce (or perhaps I should say King's Bruce) is completely at fault for Damian's traumatic experience. No matter if Alfred lied or not, he should not send his 13 years old son as sacrifice pawn when he enjoyed beach with Selina. I know his plan, sent Damian to Gotham, willingly became their hostage and let them bring him into manor, opened manor's defense from inside, and let the rest of Batfam enter the manor to subdue Flashpoint Batman. And I know he used Damian because he has blood relative with Thomas Wayne as his blood grandson so Thomas Wayne maybe will not kill him, but how can Batman be sure that Bane will not touch Damian? And how can he be sure that Thomas Wayne definitely will not kill Damian? I know that Batman's prediction is correct, Thomas Wayne couldn't kill Damian because he's "family", but still it's 50:50 chance, 60:40 at most. To gamble his son's life like that, it's a jerk move, even for him.

But that's King's shitty writing, now let's move to Pennyworth R.I.P.
Damian blamed himself. Bruce said that there's no blame. And yes, he isn't to blame for Bruce's plan, and Alfred suicide note sealed the fact. But for me, Bruce, Batfam and we, are misunderstand. What EXACTLY Damian blamed himself for? For entered Gotham when Alfred was still on hostage, like Jason's said? I don't think so. Barbara said that Jason should know Damian isn't responsible for that. He just followed order from Bruce.  So all Batfam know that. Damian know that too. Damian isn't pushover type, he will not willingly take blame and regret himself when he knows that he's not the one at fault. Him fired Kid Flash and refused to apologies shows that. Then why he still blames himself? The answer lied on this page.
damiiii.jpg

*"I should have been able to stop him. I should have been more."*
Now you see? He didn't blame himself for entering Gotham. He blamed himself because he *DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WHEN BANE BROKE ALFRED'S NECK. HE WAS RIGHT IN FRONT OF ALFRED AND HE CAN'T DO ANYTHING TO STOP BANE'S HAND FOR BREAKING ALFRED'S NECK.* Perhaps he thought 'I should have woken up earlier, I should have broken free from the chair and stop Bane's hand. I can free myself when I was hanged upside down why I didn't free myself on that time?". He SHOULD NOT blame himself for that of course, he's thirteen, waayy smaller than Bruce and Bane broke Bruce's back like a twig. There's no way he can defend Alfred from Bane, he probably will get killed and Bruce's plan will be failed. But still, this is Damian we're talking about, a kid who always think that he's as capable as any adult. No matter that he went because of Bruce's order, no matter that Alfred lied and he willingly let himself get killed, for Damian, the fact remain that *he was in front of Alfred and he can't save him.* And Bruce failed to catch that, which is ,unfortunately, in character for that damned emotionally constipated man. 

Conclusion is, Damian is a mess. Bruce is a mess. Both of them can't talk properly with each other to save their lives (like Damian and Bruce "good talk" from Robin Anniversary). At this point we need the Wayne whisperer a.k.a Dick Grayson (I mean, he helped Bruce when he blamed himself over Damian's death and he helped Damian when he was worried of Bruce's life on Metal), but he's still on Ric mode. So that sucks.

As for 5G, perhaps DC want to recreate Bruce-Alfred partnership with Luke-Lucius. So my prediction is Bruce at some point just think that he can't be Batman without Alfred and Lucius as current 'Alfred' ask Luke to be Batman.

----------


## sifighter

> So with the isolation I got bored and finally finished City of Bane and I now reconsider Pennyworth RIP.
> 
> In Batman 83 it's made very clear that Alfred committed suicide to not be a hindrance rather to be a salvation. That was the reason why he lied to Bruce.
> 
> With this in mind I can understand Bruce not knowing what to say when Damian blamed himself [none of the others were privy to Alfred's suicide note so are unaware] How does he explain to them that Alfred choose to die?
> 
> Even worse Bruuce was onto Bane's plan even before City of Bane so he must be really blaming himself for his plan which allowed Bane to take over Gotham. [was part of the plan for Alfred to be taken hostage just like Bruce also planned for Damian to be taken hostage?]
> 
> Anyway reading Batman 83 it makes it harder to know how I feel about Bruce's silence.
> ...


Im taking this only from the Damian stand point but him and Bruces relationship has been strained for a little while now. Clearly Bruce loves Damian as he went to Apokolips and back to revive him and weve seen cases where Damian cares about his Dad like in Metal, problem is they dont talk out their issues or communicate.

Clearly since No Justice and the formation of Damians new Teen Titans that they been distant. They no longer agree about what is the best way to fight crime even though Damian still refuses to kill and they both use similar methods, mainly secret prisons under team bases. Not just that but there were definitely some issues lately concerning Deathstroke and how that has gotten to Damian. If anything the death of Alfred made it worse since they arent talking about how guilty Damian must fill for technically causing it on Bruces orders and the trauma he feels for bearing witness to it.

I want the annual to come out, not for them to fight but I think because its finally time these two have a serious talk about the problems they have right now.

----------


## dietrich

> First, I want to say that for me Bruce (or perhaps I should say King's Bruce) is completely at fault for Damian's traumatic experience. No matter if Alfred lied or not, he should not send his 13 years old son as sacrifice pawn when he enjoyed beach with Selina. I know his plan, sent Damian to Gotham, willingly became their hostage and let them bring him into manor, opened manor's defense from inside, and let the rest of Batfam enter the manor to subdue Flashpoint Batman. And I know he used Damian because he has blood relative with Thomas Wayne as his blood grandson so Thomas Wayne maybe will not kill him, but how can Batman be sure that Bane will not touch Damian? And how can he be sure that Thomas Wayne definitely will not kill Damian? I know that Batman's prediction is correct, Thomas Wayne couldn't kill Damian because he's "family", but still it's 50:50 chance, 60:40 at most. To gamble his son's life like that, it's a jerk move, even for him.
> 
> But that's King's shitty writing, now let's move to Pennyworth R.I.P.
> Damian blamed himself. Bruce said that there's no blame. And yes, he isn't to blame for Bruce's plan, and Alfred suicide note sealed the fact. But for me, Bruce, Batfam and we, are misunderstand. What EXACTLY Damian blamed himself for? For entered Gotham when Alfred was still on hostage, like Jason's said? I don't think so. Barbara said that Jason should know Damian isn't responsible for that. He just followed order from Bruce.  So all Batfam know that. Damian know that too. Damian isn't pushover type, he will not willingly take blame and regret himself when he knows that he's not the one at fault. Him fired Kid Flash and refused to apologies shows that. Then why he still blames himself? The answer lied on this page.
> damiiii.jpg
> 
> *"I should have been able to stop him. I should have been more."*
> Now you see? He didn't blame himself for entering Gotham. He blamed himself because he *DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WHEN BANE BROKE ALFRED'S NECK. HE WAS RIGHT IN FRONT OF ALFRED AND HE CAN'T DO ANYTHING TO STOP BANE'S HAND FOR BREAKING ALFRED'S NECK.* Perhaps he thought 'I should have woken up earlier, I should have broken free from the chair and stop Bane's hand. I can free myself when I was hanged upside down why I didn't free myself on that time?". He SHOULD NOT blame himself for that of course, he's thirteen, waayy smaller than Bruce and Bane broke Bruce's back like a twig. There's no way he can defend Alfred from Bane, he probably will get killed and Bruce's plan will be failed. But still, this is Damian we're talking about, a kid who always think that he's as capable as any adult. No matter that he went because of Bruce's order, no matter that Alfred lied and he willingly let himself get killed, for Damian, the fact remain that *he was in front of Alfred and he can't save him.* And Bruce failed to catch that, which is ,unfortunately, in character for that damned emotionally constipated man. 
> 
> ...





> I’m taking this only from the Damian stand point but him and Bruce’s relationship has been strained for a little while now. Clearly Bruce loves Damian as he went to Apokolips and back to revive him and we’ve seen cases where Damian cares about his Dad like in Metal, problem is they don’t talk out their issues or communicate.
> 
> Clearly since No Justice and the formation of Damian’s new Teen Titans that they been distant. They no longer agree about what is the best way to fight crime even though Damian still refuses to kill and they both use similar methods, mainly secret prisons under team bases. Not just that but there were definitely some issues lately concerning Deathstroke and how that has gotten to Damian. If anything the death of Alfred made it worse since they aren’t talking about how guilty Damian must fill for technically causing it on Bruce’s orders and the trauma he feels for bearing witness to it.
> 
> I want the annual to come out, not for them to fight but I think because it’s finally time these two have a serious talk about the problems they have right now.


Man these are two very written and well thought out analysis of the the current situation and what transpired.

Lightof Justice, I never even considered that Damian was blaming himself for not been able to take on Bane [a man who nearly killed Dick,Jason and Damian simultaneous] even while restrained as he was.
I thought that he meant that like Jason he should have respected Bane and Thomas and not ventured in to the city as decreed. Complied with their wishes.

Poor Damian. This means that it will be even harder talking him around. Getting him to see sense will be an up hill battle.

They need The Sanctuary 
Or it needs to tie into what Sifighter said. That's the best case scenerio.

Bruce finally steps up and does some hands on parenting. Not just with Damian but Jason [another son he's broken and pushed away]

King's Batman run was about father's. I hope Bruce learnt from that. This is the time to turn ever thing around and make positive changes.

@lightofjustice you are right Dick Grayson is indeed the Waynewhisperer. Even in RIP he was the only one speaking sense even without his memories the guy was still onpoint and mediating.
Scottsynder is correct Dick Grayson is the Dc's no 1 Emotional Detective

----------


## Light of Justice

> Man these are two very written and well thought out analysis of the the current situation and what transpired.
> 
> Lightof Justice, I never even considered that Damian was blaming himself for not been able to take on Bane [a man who nearly killed Dick,Jason and Damian simultaneous] even while restrained as he was.
> I thought that he meant that like Jason he should have respected Bane and Thomas and not ventured in to the city as decreed. Complied with their wishes.
> 
> Poor Damian. This means that it will be even harder talking him around. Getting him to see sense will be an up hill battle.


Up hill battle? That was understatement, considering how stubborn and how high he think of himself. I dare, literally any one who are not Dick Grayson, to say, "Damian, you are 13, no one expect you to take Bane down, when even your father failed to do that. Alfred's death is not your fault, you are helpless on that situation, it can't be helped. I'm sure Alfred also didn't want you to hurt yourself to save him." Clark, Ollie, or even Slade, do you want to take that challenge? XD XD




> They need The Sanctuary 
> Or it needs to tie into what Sifighter said. That's the best case scenerio.


this is exactly why we need information of TT annual #2. Seriously there are so many unresolved problem between them, 



> Considering how things seems to be moving at DC, I'm betting that Annual 2 has been scrapped and that issue 42 and following will be signifcantly different than what was hinted at first.


so please don't, DC. I want them to have a talk after all.

----------


## Rac7d*

Yo this team would work but


Replace Kon with Jon replace Donna with Crush   and beastboy with Red arrow

----------


## Jackalope89

> Yo this team would work but
> 
> 
> Replace Kon with Jon replace Donna with Crush   and beastboy with Red arrow


Scratch Crush (don't hate her or anything, however...), and put in Kathy or Maya. 

Still not sold on Raven in this generation though.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Scratch Crush (don't hate her or anything, however...), and put in Kathy or Maya. 
> 
> Still not sold on Raven in this generation though.


 Since Damian is allowed to age, whereas Tim Drake and Beastboy are locked I don’t see why not. She dated Wally 2 who apparently is 15 soooooo.....

Also Kathy is loss to us no that Jon is almost 20

----------


## Katana500

> Since Damian is allowed to age, whereas Tim Drake and Beastboy are locked I don’t see why not. She dated Wally 2 who apparently is 15 soooooo.....
> 
> Also Kathy is loss to us no that Jon is almost 20


Maya and Kathy are both good characters. I'd love to see both in a future Damian team. Jon's loss is Damian's opportunity. He should poach Kathy into his own supporting cast.

----------


## Digifiend

> Considering how things seems to be moving at DC, I'm betting that Annual 2 has been scrapped and that issue 42 and following will be signifcantly different than what was hinted at first.


That annual has simply not yet been resolicited, nor have the issues of TT due originally in May and June. I don't think plans have changed due to Coronavirus - though June's solicit did indicate the plans for the annual had changed already anyway, as the annual cover says Damian is no longer Robin, yet in June he still is.

----------


## Rac7d*

> That annual has simply not yet been resolicited, nor have the issues of TT due originally in May and June. I don't think plans have changed due to Coronavirus - though June's solicit did indicate the plans for the annual had changed already anyway, as the annual cover says Damian is no longer Robin, yet in June he still is.


He does not have a tie in to the Joker War interestingly

----------


## Grandmaster_J

> Yo this team would work but
> 
> 
> Replace Kon with Jon replace Donna with Crush   and beastboy with Red arrow


3 from Dick's gen
1 from Tim's gen
1 from Damian's.

Yeah, part of the reason why I like the current incarnation of the TT right now. Good looking art though

----------


## Rac7d*

> 3 from Dick's gen
> 1 from Tim's gen
> 1 from Damian's.
> 
> Yeah, part of the reason why I like the current incarnation of the TT right now. Good looking art though


I
Can’t stand roundhouse, beastboy can vanish, his brand locks him as a child and no one knows what to do with him.
Arrow, Nobody and Damian are kind of redundant.  I like Djinn before the whole love triangle BS

----------


## dietrich

Just saw JlD AW and OH MY GOD that was hands down the best Dc animated movie to date.

It was BOMBASTIC.
Far too good.
They went all out.
It was a dream. Darkseid v Trigon!
Darkseid v Orm! Those are stuff that I would have never dreamed would ever happen.
Damian with a Kryptonite sword!

The conclusion of Damian's story.
Bruce was badass
Jason Blood's soft spot and fondness for Damian was cute

so much epicness and insanity can't wait for what they have instore for us next

----------


## dietrich

Damian and raven

----------


## dietrich

https://glitter-dc.tumblr.com

----------


## Light of Justice

> Damian and Talia
> 
> 
> 
> https://glitter-dc.tumblr.com


At first I thought that's Bruce with Damian, but from the bat-costume the Batman is Damian. Who will be his next Robin I wonder. Terry? 

And can I complain about a CBR article on CBR community? Because I have *SO MANY* things to say about this article.
https://www.cbr.com/dc-characters-de...xt-era-comics/
d2c93e82-edaa-4196-83e2-795017d7a8ab.jpg
cb668231-a9cb-4d86-a7ac-16098c4c0bc9.jpg

CBR just.... what the f**k? There are so many things wrong on that article.
*Opposing force* to his father*?*
Who he clearly *resents* in many ways*???*
Both as an *enemy* and sidekick*??????*
He's sure to be a threat that Batman will have to face *again????????????*

*SINCE WHEN??????? WHO THE HECK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??????? BECAUSE NO WAY YOU TALK ABOUT DAMIAN????*
The writer of this article clearly only know Injustice Damian. Damian is insanely loyal to Bruce, even Green Arrow told him about that on Metal event. He's maybe Batman's most loyal sidekick after Tim. 
I agree that he could define the next era in comics though. Hell, his existence gave Superman's creative board confidence to create Jon, the biological son of Superman. And Teen Titans annual #2 solicitation said "confrontation between father and son that will alter the very course of the DC Universe" (if they doesn't cancel it). Obviously he will be one of main force of DC's next era.

----------


## Digifiend

> He does not have a tie in to the Joker War interestingly


I'd expect Damian to be in Detective Comics.

----------


## Rac7d*

> I'd expect Damian to be in Detective Comics.


What about Tim cass, steph 
Kate luke?

----------


## Digifiend

Cass is in Outsiders - a Batman book, so why's there no tie-in? Tim and Steph are in Young Justice, I wonder if they'll be off-world yet again? Kate's currently in Batgirl, will she involved in that tie-in? Luke hasn't appeared at all recently has he? Despite the fact he was rumoured to be taking over as Batman!

----------


## sifighter

> Cass is in Outsiders - a Batman book, so why's there no tie-in? Tim and Steph are in Young Justice, I wonder if they'll be off-world yet again?


I feel like given it’s connection to current continuity issues and the history of certain characters that Young Justice would be more likely to tie-in to Death Metal then Joker War. Plus then Joker would need to have a good reason that he can plan for Impulse, Wondergirl, Superboy, and Teen Lantern, which could happen given Endgame but that was more of a surprise attack then a head on confrontation with the Justice League.

----------


## Digifiend

That was my point - I figured Tim and Steph would completely miss Joker War. The team is currently off rescuing Superboy - again. Joker knowing Tim's identity is meaningless if he can't even find him because he's busy in another universe. The team has spent so little time on Prime Earth they still have no headquarters, for Pete's sake.

Bear in mind Tec is written by Tomasi, so it makes sense for Damian to appear there.

----------


## sifighter

> That was my point - I figured Tim and Steph would completely miss Joker War. The team is currently off rescuing Superboy - again.


Actually they succeeded in that, the next thing they are doing is learning why the universe doesn’t remember Young Justice and the characters involved. That is exactly where issue 14 left off and is being picked up in Issue 15 come June.

But yeah I’m gonna agree with you and say that learning what the universe and it’s changes did to you and your friends is gonna overrule the Joker story.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Actually they succeeded in that, the next thing they are doing is learning why the universe doesn’t remember Young Justice and the characters involved. That is exactly where issue 14 left off and is being picked up in Issue 15 come June.
> 
> But yeah I’m gonna agree with you and say that learning what the universe and it’s changes did to you and your friends is gonna overrule the Joker story.


Nothing overules joker

----------


## Masterff

> Actually they succeeded in that, the next thing they are doing is learning why the universe doesnt remember Young Justice and the characters involved. That is exactly where issue 14 left off and is being picked up in Issue 15 come June.
> 
> But yeah Im gonna agree with you and say that learning what the universe and its changes did to you and your friends is gonna overrule the Joker story.


Young Justice AND ACTION COMICS...
Its a crossover of Young Justice and Action Comics...

Currently Conner is more interesting in ACTION COMICS than he was ever so far in the YOUNG JUSTICE Series (2019-...)

----------


## Godlike13

> Damian and Talia


This one seems wildly inappropriate.

----------


## Light of Justice

> This one seems wildly inappropriate.


Because her breasts are unclothed in front of Damian? If so, maybe because the artist is korean (cmiiw). On some country of Asia, parents can go nude in front of their children without any police call of sexual harassment. In my country too, in fact I'm shocked when I hear a father in America was arrested because he bathed together with his 6 years old daughter, in my country it's commonly happened.

----------


## Godlike13

Boobs out, posture, face expression, hand sliding down chest. Ya, there are some red flags there.

----------


## bluelolly

"She was talking about Bruce before putting Damian to sleep, and not long after, Damian was sent to Bruce"
The explanation of that art

----------


## dietrich

> This one seems wildly inappropriate.


Mmm didn't really seem that way to me but I guess how some might view it that way. I just saw it as putting a young kid to sleep

----------


## dietrich

> At first I thought that's Bruce with Damian, but from the bat-costume the Batman is Damian. Who will be his next Robin I wonder. Terry? 
> 
> And can I complain about a CBR article on CBR community? Because I have *SO MANY* things to say about this article.
> https://www.cbr.com/dc-characters-de...xt-era-comics/
> Attachment 96621
> Attachment 96622
> 
> CBR just.... what the f**k? There are so many things wrong on that article.
> *Opposing force* to his father*?*
> ...


CBR has a mixed bag of contributors so their articles are always hit and miss
Last year there was an article on Dick and Damian where the writer was unaware of the Dickbats era. The article was all about how Metal managed to build the steps to Dick and Damian having a positive dynamic

----------


## Astralabius

> At first I thought that's Bruce with Damian, but from the bat-costume the Batman is Damian. Who will be his next Robin I wonder. Terry? 
> 
> And can I complain about a CBR article on CBR community? Because I have *SO MANY* things to say about this article.
> https://www.cbr.com/dc-characters-de...xt-era-comics/
> Attachment 96621
> Attachment 96622
> 
> CBR just.... what the f**k? There are so many things wrong on that article.
> *Opposing force* to his father*?*
> ...


I agree wholeheartedly that that article is just plain wrong, the amount of times Damian has chosen to be loyal to Bruce no matter what is overwhelming. I can't even think of a main universe story where Damian turned against Bruce for real, not counting the current TT run. And even then it's not like he's actively fighting Bruce there.

But I'm not sure if the annual will even come out at this point. We have release dates for 41, 42 and 43, but not for the annual. Annuals for other books have release dates. With bleedingcool reporting that 5G is dead and Lee saying some time ago that they weren't planning to replace the big heroes, do a timeskip or a full reboot I wouldn't be suprised if the extra time they got because of the lockdown was used to make changes to the story to fit with new plans for the future.

----------


## CPSparkles

DCEASED: DEAD PLANET #2
written by TOM TAYLOR
art by TREVOR HAIRSINE and GIGI BALDASSINI
cover by DAVID FINCH
card stock variant cover by FRANCESCO MATTINA
card stock movie homage variant cover by BEN OLIVER
The sequel to the bestselling miniseries continues! The Justice League is trapped on Earth, and they’ve discovered that life still survives on this dead planet! Survival is precarious, though—and with billions of infected still roaming the surface, death lies around every corner. But it isn’t just the anti-living our heroes have to worry about, because John Constantine, Swamp Thing, and Zatanna are about to discover another evil growing...
ON SALE 08.04.20
$3.99 US | 2 OF 6 | 32 PAGES
FC | DC
CARD STOCK VARIANT COVERS $4.99 US
This issue will ship with three covers.



SUPER SONS BOOK THREE: ESCAPE TO LANDIS TP
written by RIDLEY PEARSON
art and cover by ILE GONZALEZ
Finishing the thrilling adventure that began in The PolarShield Project, a mysterious new foe plans to release a deadly virus, launching the sons of the world’s two greatest superheroes on their biggest mission yet!
With the news of the Four Fingers taking refuge in the land of Landis, Batkid, Superboy, and Tilly begin their journey to stop the deadly virus from being unleashed onto the world. Meanwhile, Candace has found her way to Landis and is taken underground to a group of people who still believe her to be the true queen of Landis. Our team is reunited in an action-packed adventure through the desert of Landis, an unknown territory filled with unknown dangers!
New York Times bestselling author Ridley Pearson (Kingdom Keepers) and artist Ile Gonzalez bring the epic conclusion to a story three books in the making. Don’t miss the Super Sons of Superman and Batman as they spring into action on what might be their final mission!
ON SALE 09.29.20
$9.99 US | FC | 5.5” x 8”
160 PAGES
DC GRAPHIC NOVELS FOR KIDS
ISBN: 978-1-4012-8641-5




BATMAN BEYOND #46
written by DAN JURGENS
art by SEAN CHEN
cover by DAN MORA
variant cover by FRANCIS MANAPUL
Mr. Zero’s plan is a success as weather around the world gets worse and a new ice age begins! Gotham is covered in a mountain of snow and ice—and the rest of the world isn’t much better. To set things right, Batman, Damian, and Batwoman Beyond must declare war on the League of Assassins !
ON SALE 08.25.20
$3.99 US | 32 PAGES
FC | DC
This issue will ship with two covers.

----------


## CPSparkles

TEEN TITANS #44
written by ROBBIE THOMPSON
art by JAVIER FERNANDEZ
cover by BERNARD CHANG
variant cover by KHARY RANDOLPH
In this issue, Crush, Roundhouse, Kid Flash, and Red Arrow chase down Robin, who’s on the hunt for villains he thinks must pay the ultimate price for their crimes. With Batman also on the case, can the Teen Titans get to Damian Wayne before his father does?
ON SALE 08.18.20
$3.99 US | 32 PAGES
FC | DC
This issue will ship with two covers.



TEEN TITANS ANNUAL #2
written by ADAM GLASS and ROBBIE THOMPSON
art by EDUARDO PANSICA
cover by BERNARD CHANG
After Batman discovers the Teen Titans’ most shocking secrets, he arrives at Mercy Hall…and he wants a word with Robin. Don’t miss the confrontation between father and son that will alter the very course of the DC Universe. Will the Teen Titans ever be the same?
RESOLICIT | ON SALE 08.25.20
$4.99 US | 48 PAGES
FC | DC
This issue is resolicited. All previous orders are canceled.



ROBIN: 80 YEARS OF THE BOY WONDER HC
stories and art by VARIOUS
cover by JIM LEE and SCOTT WILLIAMS
Over eight decades, Batman’s crime-fighting partner has become nearly as recognizable a pop culture icon as the Dark Knight himself—and this collection celebrates the many incarnations of comics’ greatest sidekick! From Dick Grayson’s debut to the dark side of Jason Todd, the dawn of Tim Drake, and the debut of Damian Wayne, experience pivotal Robin moments throughout history! Collects stories from Batman #368, #410, #411, and #466; Detective Comics #38, #165, #394-395, #535, and #796; Robin #25-26; The Batman Chronicles: The Gauntlet #1; Star Spangled Comics #65 and #124; Teen Titans #14; and Batman and Robin #0.
ON SALE 09.01.20
$29.99 US | 416 PAGES | 7.0625” x 10.875”
FC | ISBN: 978-1-77950-721-1

----------


## CPSparkles

SUPER SONS OMNIBUS HC EXPANDED EDITION
written by PETER J. TOMASI and others
art by PATRICK GLEASON, JORGE JIMENEZ, ALISSON BORGES, TYLER KIRKHAM, CARMINE DI GIANDOMENICO, CARLO BARBERI, SCOTT GODLEWSKI and others
cover by JORGE JIMENEZ
All adventures of the Super Sons are collected in this new, expanded version of the omnibus hardcover! These stories first put them on a collision course with Lex Luthor and introduce Kid Amazon before bringing the Teen Titans into the picture! Then, the young duo blast into space, where they become targets of the Gangand theyll have to face a galactic juvenile detention center and a wild West planet before they find their way home again! Collects Superman #10-11, Superman #37-38, Teen Titans #15, Super Sons #1-16, a tale from DC Rebirth Holiday Special #1, Super Sons Annual #1, Super Sons/Dynomutt Special #3, and Adventures of the Super Sons #1-12.
ON SALE 11.04.20
$99.99 US | 888 PAGES
FC | ISBN: 978-177950666-5

----------


## Katana500

> TEEN TITANS #44
> written by ROBBIE THOMPSON
> art by JAVIER FERNANDEZ
> cover by BERNARD CHANG
> variant cover by KHARY RANDOLPH
> In this issue, Crush, Roundhouse, Kid Flash, and Red Arrow chase down Robin, who’s on the hunt for villains he thinks must pay the ultimate price for their crimes. With Batman also on the case, can the Teen Titans get to Damian Wayne before his father does?
> ON SALE 08.18.20
> $3.99 US | 32 PAGES
> FC | DC
> ...


My current theory is that Damian is going too temporarily snap due to a mix of Jokerized Ric and Djinn's death? or her being permanently trapped in Hell? The other members of the team lasting without Damian for 5 issues. and him relaunching a new team with Issue 50 

I suspect he will be back to his heroic self by the end of Joker War.

----------


## CPSparkles

> At first I thought that's Bruce with Damian, but from the bat-costume the Batman is Damian. Who will be his next Robin I wonder. Terry? 
> 
> And can I complain about a CBR article on CBR community? Because I have *SO MANY* things to say about this article.
> https://www.cbr.com/dc-characters-de...xt-era-comics/
> Attachment 96621
> Attachment 96622
> 
> CBR just.... what the f**k? There are so many things wrong on that article.
> *Opposing force* to his father*?*
> ...



Damian and Dick are the most loyal. To a fault I think and far too many times even at a personal/great cost.
Tim in Rebirth alone [SS, Tec and Deathstroke] has been not just disloyal but an enemy and a threat to Batman.
Honestly they all are very loyal to Bruce.

Damian I can think of two  occasions when he disloyal Injustice 1

Damian in Injustice did initially side with the regime because he saw the hypocrisy in Batman's methods [even called him out on it]

Later becoming opposed to The Regime as they became less about creating a safer better world for the innocent law abiding civilians through the application of harsher at times permanent solutions to offenders.

By Injustice 2 while he refuses to return home when asked by Bruce and still not part of the batman's side his goals and mission [protecting and helping those in need. Making the world safer] align with his father's goal to stop ra's from taking over the world and reducing the human population.

Bruce fails while Damian accomplishes it with help from Kara,Jason and a host of others.

In the spin off he organises the new resistance to take down the regime and free his enslaved father.
Damian now mature admits how wrong he was for siding with Superman initially. He apologizes for accidentally killing Dick Grayson.

pouring his heart out and apologizing for letting Superman use him.

I didn't think he was disloyal so much as being true to himself but Damian felt otherwise
His actions and rash immaturity did lead to him becoming a threat and a tool against his father

 Tom Taylor the writer of Injustice and Injustice 2 said in an interview that Damian was supposed to represent the middle ground between the egos and extremes that were Supes and Bats.

In the Animated Universe
In Batman v Robin when he sided with Talon this however was based on Born to kill where Damian reminiscent of Tim in rebirth Tec betrays Batman's trust for good intentions and hubris.

*spoilers:*
 In both Injustice and the animated verse Damian ends up giving his life to save his fathers.

He jumps infront of Darksied's Omega beams which were aimed at Bruce 
*end of spoilers*







What is the fascination of Bruce's family being threats? Thomas, Tynion wanted to make Tim saviour a major foe for bruce, Joker controlled Dick is coming up and now Damian in tossed in.

Bruce can't catch a break.
Unless Bruce gives up the mantle to become a hands on parent due to Damian's lack of supervision then I don't see how Damian or TT can affect the DCUniverse.

----------


## CPSparkles

> My current theory is that Damian is going too temporarily snap due to a mix of Jokerized Ric and Djinn's death? or her being permanently trapped in Hell? The other members of the team lasting without Damian for 5 issues. and him relaunching a new team with Issue 50 
> 
> I suspect he will be back to his heroic self by the end of Joker War.


If Dick get shot and forgetting him and Alfred's death didn't do it I doubt those two will.

Djinn is a team mate not even a friend and Dick Jockerized isn't as traumatic as Dick almost dying or forgetting him. Unless you mean as in the straw that breaks the camel's back [I think that's how that saying goes]

----------


## Katana500

> If Dick get shot and forgetting him and Alfred's death didn't do it I doubt those two will.
> 
> Djinn is a team mate not even a friend and Dick Jockerized isn't as traumatic as Dick almost dying or forgetting him. Unless you mean as in the straw that breaks the camel's back [I think that's how that saying goes]


I just think a mixture of everything. Dick getting shot in the head, City of Bane and Alfred's Death, Djinn's fate, and Joker War will eventually become too much for Damian. It'd be too much for any teen.

I think Damian would be effected by any of his Teen Titans team dying. Though he wouldn't admit it out loud. Djinn apart from maybe Emiko is probably who he is closest too on the team so im sure it would still effect him. If she didn't matter to him I doubt he would launch a suicide mission to hell and back! 

But I have faith he will overcome it! he always has before. and each time he comes back a stronger character!

----------


## Light of Justice

> DCEASED: DEAD PLANET #2
> written by TOM TAYLOR
> art by TREVOR HAIRSINE and GIGI BALDASSINI
> cover by DAVID FINCH
> card stock variant cover by FRANCESCO MATTINA
> card stock movie homage variant cover by BEN OLIVER
> The sequel to the bestselling miniseries continues! The Justice League is trapped on Earth, and they’ve discovered that life still survives on this dead planet! Survival is precarious, though—and with billions of infected still roaming the surface, death lies around every corner. But it isn’t just the anti-living our heroes have to worry about, because John Constantine, Swamp Thing, and Zatanna are about to discover another evil growing...
> ON SALE 08.04.20
> $3.99 US | 2 OF 6 | 32 PAGES
> ...


So in August we will have Batman Damian, Damian Al Ghul, Robin-but-rebellious Damian, possibly-fired-Damian, and.... Ian Wayne(sigh...). That doesn't include whatever Damian's role on Joker War (I know that there's no mention of Damian in Tec solicits but that event is written by Tomasi, I don't think he will exclude Damian from his story). August will be a wild month for Damian. And damn, whoever created Damian Al-Ghul design, you are genius! He's so hot and regal! Even Terry looks plain in comparison!

----------


## Light of Justice

> TEEN TITANS #44
> written by ROBBIE THOMPSON
> art by JAVIER FERNANDEZ
> cover by BERNARD CHANG
> variant cover by KHARY RANDOLPH
> In this issue, Crush, Roundhouse, Kid Flash, and Red Arrow chase down Robin, who’s on the hunt for villains he thinks must pay the ultimate price for their crimes. With Batman also on the case, can the Teen Titans get to Damian Wayne before his father does?
> ON SALE 08.18.20
> $3.99 US | 32 PAGES
> FC | DC
> ...


Somehow I want to laugh while reading TT#44 solicits. So his teammates will chase Damian down, but with Batman also on the case, instead working together with Batman to capture Damian, they will try to outrun Batman and capture Damian before him. It's just like when you're drunk and pull a stupid stunt, then your friends try to catch and stop you before your parents get you and whoop your ass. Compared to his old Teen Titans teams that gladly snitch him and left him to Bruce, that's almost sweet of them.

And our relief that Damian will stay as Robin after Teen Titans annual #2 is gone, if that issue will be happened after TT#44 (which I have to admit, that makes a lot more sense, except for TT#42 solicits).

----------


## Light of Justice

> My current theory is that Damian is going too temporarily snap due to a mix of Jokerized Ric and Djinn's death? or her being permanently trapped in Hell? The other members of the team lasting without Damian for 5 issues. and him relaunching a new team with Issue 50


I hope they don't scrap his current team and replace it with a new one. With all of their (many) flaws, I like the current Teen Titans team. It's the team that he chose himself. And if he changes his teammates every 20 issue, I started to think that DC just doesn't want to give Damian long-lasting friendship, considering most of his past friends either forgotten or driven away from him.

----------


## dietrich

An Adult Damian is included in Death Metal. He's one of the Evil Batmen




Contributors to Dark Nights: Death Metal Guidebook #1 include:

- 
@Ssnyder1835

- 
@JamesTheFourth

- 
@Williamson_Josh

- 
@beckycloonan

- 
@definitelyvita

- 
@zdarsky

- Christopher Priest
- 
@TheDougMahnke

- 
@urbanbarbarian

- Eduardo Risso
- 
@kharyrandolph


Cover by Yasmine Putri!

Due out 08/08
So that's 2 DamiBats for august. One good, One Evil and Death Metaly

----------


## Grandmaster_J

I'm happy to see the Annual isn't getting cancelled but having to wait an extra 3 months still sucks. It wouldn't shock me if maybe D.C. planned on delaying, but confident they had to adjust to covid panic. The cover also confirms what I think most figured was Djinn not making it out of there which indeed would upset, Damian, and even Crush. I wonder how she reacts to it also. 




> Somehow I want to laugh while reading TT#44 solicits. So his teammates will chase Damian down, but with Batman also on the case, instead working together with Batman to capture Damian, they will try to outrun Batman and capture Damian before him. It's just like when you're drunk and pull a stupid stunt, then your friends try to catch and stop you before your parents get you and whoop your ass. Compared to his old Teen Titans teams that gladly snitch him and left him to Bruce, that's almost sweet of them.
> 
> And our relief that Damian will stay as Robin after Teen Titans annual #2 is gone, if that issue will be happened after TT#44 (which I have to admit, that makes a lot more sense, except for TT#42 solicits).


Lol never mind the fact that one of his friends has super speed and should reach him way before anyone else.




> I hope they don't scrap his current team and replace it with a new one. With all of their (many) flaws, I like the current Teen Titans team. It's the team that he chose himself. And if he changes his teammates every 20 issue, I started to think that DC just doesn't want to give Damian long-lasting friendship, considering most of his past friends either forgotten or driven away from him.


Biggest reason I enjoyed this team for so long is what better way to balance out a kid in Damian than an group of degenerates like himself. Reforming yet another team seems silly to me and would probably make me drop the title if that happens again. Hopefully not, as said they've been through too much.

----------


## Astralabius

> I hope they don't scrap his current team and replace it with a new one. With all of their (many) flaws, I like the current Teen Titans team. It's the team that he chose himself. And if he changes his teammates every 20 issue, I started to think that DC just doesn't want to give Damian long-lasting friendship, considering most of his past friends either forgotten or driven away from him.


Can't say agree. This team and this book have been nothing but awful. Glad the sales reflect that.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Can't say agree. This team and this book have been nothing but awful. Glad the sales reflect that.


The books are awful because they regress Damian's character development (with prison and brainwashing), make Emiko OOC, and the team doesn't act buddy buddy with each other, unlike Dick or Tim's Teen Titan. I can see why Teen Titan's fans dislike the current team. If you ever read my previous post, you know that I have no problem with his prison and brainwashing method. Perhaps because I am huge marvel fans before I met Damian (still is actually) and marvel has so many popular antihero (Deadpool, Ghost Rider, Winter Soldier) and even the big three of marvel don't exactly have no killing rule (cap is practically WW2 soldier, iron man killed bunch of people on mandarin event, and thor is bloody(pun intended) warrior of asgard). That's why I can't completely relate to DC universe with their strict 'no killing rule', 'no mistreated villain rule', 'all villain can be rehabilitated plot'. So if some fans think that the prison and brainwashing are minus point of this book, we already aren't on the same mindset. I feel sorry for Emiko's fans though, I've read Green Arrow during quarantine, Green Arrow's Emiko and Glass's Emiko is completely different characters.

And for the team, I like their chaotic dynamic. Sure they're asshole with each other and to each other, but honestly all of them are bunch of assholes. Even Damian. And they all are unafraid to call for each other assholeness. Just compare them to Damian's old Teen Titans team. The old Teen Titans team belittle Damian because he fired KF, who was completely at fault for Deathstroke's time stream mess. The current Teen Titans belittle Damian because he build a secret prison, full of dangerous villain, underneath their HQ, endangered them in process. They never restrain themselves from directly voicing their complain and problem to Damian, and to each other. Emiko confronted Djinn because Djinn was being uncooperative for the team, Djinn confronted Emiko because she violated Djinn's privacy, Crush confronted Damian because she didn't like that Damian broke Djinn's trust, and Kid Flash doesn't want to blindly follow Damian and repeatedly says that if Damian want his team in something, he's responsible to bring them out. Even Roundhose who looks like the silly Beast Boy of the team, had a backbone to betray the team because his sister was died from Damian's act, something he's completely justifiable to angry for. At first, they look like they always fight each other, but the ultimate way to build friendship is to be honest and vocal with each other. Like Damian and Jon did during their run in Supersons, the difference is Damian's teammate don't meet watered-down Supersons Damian, and Damian doesn't meet nice kind-hearted naive kid Jon. It can't be helped if their runs have and will have many bumpy roads. 

But for me it's still better, compared to Starfire's passiveness even though she's the oldest, Beast Boy who never confront Damian face to face and prefer ridiculous act like using Damian's toothbrush to clean toilets, Aqualad's meekness (he's new member so understandable), and Raven I-don't-really-understand-why-I-am-here-and what's-my-purpose-on-this-team, the current team sounds like a better challenge to Damian. With good writer (not Glass), I can see them will fight with each other and for each other, face their problem head-on, and become a true team, even though not as buddy buddy as Dick's team or Tim's team. I hope Thompson can give me that, TT#44 solicitation already make me interested for the current situation of the team. But still, I know better to expect anything from DC, so my hope isn't really high.

That's only my opinion though. Everyone can have their own opinion, so if you're disagree with me, I understand.

----------


## dietrich

Happy to see that JLW is doing very well both financially and critically.

It's got a 100% fresh critics score and a 92% audience rating
Imbd score of 9.2 out of 10 

Damian's story arc in the movie being often mentioned as one of the highlights of the movie even for those reviewers who didn't vibe with the craziness.
Damian and Dick's arc and Damian and Raven's emotional plots in particular

it's also America's 4th most pre-ordered Blu ray

The DCAMU and Damian in general get a lot of unwarranted flak  [mostly salt imo :Stick Out Tongue: ] so it's refreshing to see them both go out on a very high note.

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/top.php?show=preorders

----------


## dietrich

> The books are awful because they regress Damian's character development (with prison and brainwashing), make Emiko OOC, and they doesn't act buddy buddy with each other, unlike Dick or Tim's Teen Titan. I can see why Teen Titan's fans dislike the current team. If you ever read my previous post, you know that I have no problem with his prison and brainwashing method. Perhaps because I am huge marvel fans before I met Damian (still is actually) and marvel has so many popular antihero (Deadpool, Ghost Rider, Winter Soldier) and even the big three of marvel don't exactly has no killing rule (cap is practically WW2 soldier, iron man killed bunch of people on mandarin event, and thor is bloody(pun intended) warrior of asgard). That's why I can't completely relate to DC universe with their strict 'no killing rule', 'no mistreated villain rule', 'all villain can be rehabilitated'. So if some fans thought that the prison and brainwashing is minus point of this book, we already aren't on the same mindset. I feel sorry for Emiko's fans though, I've read Green Arrow during quarantine, Green Arrow's Emiko and Glass's Emiko is completely different characters.
> 
> And for the team, I like their chaotic dynamic. Sure they're asshole with each other and to each other, but honestly all of them are bunch of assholes. Even Damian. And they all are unafraid to call for each other assholeness. Just compare them to Damian's old Teen Titans team. The old Teen Titans team belittle Damian because he fired KF, who completely at fault for Deathstroke's time stream mess. The current Teen Titans belittle Damian because he build a secret prison, full of dangerous villain, underneath their HQ, endangered them in process. Even Roundhose who looks like the silly Beast Boy of the team, had a backbone to betray the team because his sister was died from Damian's act, something he completely justifiable to angry for. Compared to Starfire's passiveness even though she's the oldest, Beast Boy who *never confront Damian face to face and prefer ridiculous act like using Damian's toothbrush to clean toilets*, Aqualad's meekness (he's new member so understandable), and Raven I-don't-really-understand-why-I-am-here-and what's-my-purpose-on-this-team, the current team sounds like a better challenge to Damian. With good writer (not Glass), I can see them will fight with each other and for each other, face their problem head-on, and become a true team, even though not as buddy buddy as Dick's team or Tim's team. I hope Thompson can give me that, TT#44 solicitation already make me interested of the current situation of the team. But still, I know better to expect anything from DC, so my hope isn't really high.


That was so childish and petty.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

Hey, guys! This is the first time I'm commenting in here, although I'm always following the thread. 

So, what do you guys think will happen after Teen Titans annual 2? I'm very worried and sad about Bruce and Damian fighting  :Frown:  I just wish we could go back to that brief period in which they were getting along and keep the development moving forward.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Hey, guys! This is the first time I'm commenting in here, although I'm always following the thread. 
> 
> So, what do you guys think will happen after Teen Titans annual 2? I'm very worried and sad about Bruce and Damian fighting  I just wish we could go back to that brief period in which they were getting along and keep the development moving forward.


Welcome to the thread! It's so nice to see new member on this thread, even though looking from join date, you are my senior on CBR community ;D. What happened after annual 2? I don't know, but in my opinion, Damian will not lose his robin mantle, even though the cover implied otherwise (besides cover often give us wrong informations). Why? Because Thompson just entered Teen Titans, and I don't think he will disband the team after he writes only one arc. Yes, if Damian stops being Robin (or hero for that matter), that means Teen Titans will be disbanded, just like  Titans was disbanded when Dick became Ric. But there's also possibility that he will pull a Tim Drake and made his own superhero title (It will be SO hilarious if Damian's new superhero title is WAYNE, perfect revenge to annoy Bruce XD XD. I'm joking that will be ridiculous, just like Tim's new superhero title who was named after "the most dangerous bird in the world").

Bruce and Damian getting along on Tomasi's Batman and Robin, Tomasi's Supersons, Tomasi's Tec...... And upcoming Tec issues will be written by Tomasi. So we can hope. Or not. Because there's the DAMNED Joker, and I think Bruce will be busy to take care of Jason who literally died by Joker, Babs who was crippled by Joker, and Dick who got his head messed by Joker. 
You know what, considering the situation, I prefer that Damian stay the f**k away from Joker War event.
There's a good analysis from @yicruz48 about your question, I suggest you to read it 
https://yicruz48.tumblr.com/post/618...appen-when-the

----------


## Korath

I k ow I'm an outlier here, but with the way things are currently in the Bat-corner, it'd rather have Damian leave the Robin mantle away and forge his own. Batman Beyond Damian is probably the best ever (both in design and character) and I would love very luch to see him starting to move toward becoming a new Ra's al'Ghul, only one less demented than his grand-father.

----------


## CPSparkles

DC/ Marvel Crossover Art
Limited Edition
Damian Wayne and Iron Man in Daddy Issues

https://twitter.com/hashtag/MarvelDC...=hashtag_click



https://twitter.com/vascogeorgiev

Reasons why this pairing was selected for the crossover;

Attention everyone! New DC/Marvel Crossover!
Who do we have today?
IRONMAN & ROBIN

That’s right, this time it’s a classic kid+mentor team-up!
I’ll explain why I think these two would be great in a comic together in the thread below.

So, bear with me  :Smile: 
What do Tony Stark and Damian Wayne have in common?
Some serious daddy issues!
Tony: “Boo-hoo, you had to grow up in the shadow of your rich and insanely successful father! I know the feeling kid! I can teach you a thing or two!”

Oh and the under-the-belt quips! They’d be INSANELY funny! Sooooo much potential for fun! But also, I can totally see Tony and Damian learning a lot from this experience. Tony will be reminded of his younger self. Damian will discover new values to aspire to.

This works amazing ! to see how Tony deals with Damian's stubborn nature and what modifications Ra's Al Ghuls grandson would have to the Iron Man suit. Does this mean Batman babysits MCU Spiderman in the meantime?

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/langbuliang



https://twitter.com/DESAWORKS

Damian and raven for the shippers 



https://twitter.com/amaatis

----------


## CPSparkles

> Hey, guys! This is the first time I'm commenting in here, although I'm always following the thread. 
> 
> So, what do you guys think will happen after Teen Titans annual 2? I'm very worried and sad about Bruce and Damian fighting  I just wish we could go back to that brief period in which they were getting along and keep the development moving forward.


Welcome.

I'm also nervous and can't predict what's going to happen. I hope it means that Bruce and Damian have an indepth and honest talk leading to change. 
Damian's intentions were good but he made the wring choice and needs to face the consequences.
Damian as Robin is the most widely recognised after Dick not just because his look is so unique but also exposure and notoriety.
I'd like to think that DC is too highly invested to change that. Also the fact that they went with his Robin in the Harley Quinn show suggests that their was never any official plans to change who officially is Robin.

Regardless of what DC higher up's want WB and AT&T have the power to veto and they did last time DC wanted to change Robin. Their decision is even more significant right now since they have decided to get more involved with how DC comics is run [Didio was sacked due to mismanagement]

However there is still a large portion of comic fans who want Tim back as Robin and Bendis did say that Tim's name change is due to change and something about the lazy botched way his costume and Name was handled makes it feel like temp status. Place holder while until an idle or planned position is vacated. I just don't believe that Drake and that suit was seriously the direction Bendis/DC thought was a suitable identity and look for a character as established as Tim Drake.

I don't have high hopes for DC focusing that much on Bruce as a father or Batman working with Robin. DC has been working so hard to make Robin a solo hero and looking back the dynamic duo Batman and Robin hasn't really been a duo for decades. Morrison brought the duo back with Reborn but up till then Robin has just popped up occasionally in the Batman books. That is not about to change.

DC and writers like a solo Batman as do the majority of Batman fans a different fanbase to the Batfamily fanbase. Batman fans are the life blood of DC comics so their needs will be paramount.

I just hope that we get adequate focus and resolution leading to positive development. An attempt at identifying the issues and hashing things that doesn't just throw Damian under the bus. Vilifying him and further enforcing the bias that already taken root in fandom.

Not holding out hope though since Glass is co writing and this is his story.

----------


## CPSparkles

https://doc-squash.tumblr.com

----------


## CPSparkles

I miss and appreciate Tomasi's run

----------


## CPSparkles

I will always treasure this run.

----------


## Light of Justice

> DC/ Marvel Crossover Art
> Limited Edition
> Damian Wayne and Iron Man in Daddy Issues
> 
> https://twitter.com/hashtag/MarvelDC...=hashtag_click
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/vascogeorgiev
> ...


My man on Marvel with my boy on DC? I'm in!

Edit: sad that it's just an illustration art and not an official comic. Great art nonetheless. Every artist who draw happy Damian are great in my book.

----------


## Astralabius

> I k ow I'm an outlier here, but with the way things are currently in the Bat-corner, it'd rather have Damian leave the Robin mantle away and forge his own. Batman Beyond Damian is probably the best ever (both in design and character) and I would love very luch to see him starting to move toward becoming a new Ra's al'Ghul, only one less demented than his grand-father.


I don't want that, considering that I think that it's more likely they would turn Damian into an outright evil character. Just look at what they did to both Talia and Ra's. They used to have depht. Nowadays there are often just used as maniacs who have no clear rules and only act like the plot needs them to.
I don't believe theres anything good awaiting Damian away from the bat. Can't have the son outshine DC's cashcow.

----------


## Astralabius

> The books are awful because they regress Damian's character development (with prison and brainwashing), make Emiko OOC, and the team doesn't act buddy buddy with each other, unlike Dick or Tim's Teen Titan. I can see why Teen Titan's fans dislike the current team. If you ever read my previous post, you know that I have no problem with his prison and brainwashing method. Perhaps because I am huge marvel fans before I met Damian (still is actually) and marvel has so many popular antihero (Deadpool, Ghost Rider, Winter Soldier) and even the big three of marvel don't exactly have no killing rule (cap is practically WW2 soldier, iron man killed bunch of people on mandarin event, and thor is bloody(pun intended) warrior of asgard). That's why I can't completely relate to DC universe with their strict 'no killing rule', 'no mistreated villain rule', 'all villain can be rehabilitated plot'. So if some fans think that the prison and brainwashing are minus point of this book, we already aren't on the same mindset. I feel sorry for Emiko's fans though, I've read Green Arrow during quarantine, Green Arrow's Emiko and Glass's Emiko is completely different characters.
> 
> And for the team, I like their chaotic dynamic. Sure they're asshole with each other and to each other, but honestly all of them are bunch of assholes. Even Damian. And they all are unafraid to call for each other assholeness. Just compare them to Damian's old Teen Titans team. The old Teen Titans team belittle Damian because he fired KF, who was completely at fault for Deathstroke's time stream mess. The current Teen Titans belittle Damian because he build a secret prison, full of dangerous villain, underneath their HQ, endangered them in process. They never restrain themselves from directly voicing their complain and problem to Damian, and to each other. Emiko confronted Djinn because Djinn was being uncooperative for the team, Djinn confronted Emiko because she violated Djinn's privacy, Crush confronted Damian because she didn't like that Damian broke Djinn's trust, and Kid Flash doesn't want to blindly follow Damian and repeatedly says that if Damian want his team in something, he's responsible to bring them out. Even Roundhose who looks like the silly Beast Boy of the team, had a backbone to betray the team because his sister was died from Damian's act, something he's completely justifiable to angry for. At first, they look like they always fight each other, but the ultimate way to build friendship is to be honest and vocal with each other. Like Damian and Jon did during their run in Supersons, the difference is Damian's teammate don't meet watered-down Supersons Damian, and Damian doesn't meet nice kind-hearted naive kid Jon. It can't be helped if their runs have and will have many bumpy roads. 
> 
> But for me it's still better, compared to Starfire's passiveness even though she's the oldest, Beast Boy who never confront Damian face to face and prefer ridiculous act like using Damian's toothbrush to clean toilets, Aqualad's meekness (he's new member so understandable), and Raven I-don't-really-understand-why-I-am-here-and what's-my-purpose-on-this-team, the current team sounds like a better challenge to Damian. With good writer (not Glass), I can see them will fight with each other and for each other, face their problem head-on, and become a true team, even though not as buddy buddy as Dick's team or Tim's team. I hope Thompson can give me that, TT#44 solicitation already make me interested for the current situation of the team. But still, I know better to expect anything from DC, so my hope isn't really high.
> 
> That's only my opinion though. Everyone can have their own opinion, so if you're disagree with me, I understand.


I never said I liked the previous run, I'm a Damian fan not a Teen Titans fan.
As a Damian fan I think this whole direction for Damian is ridiculous.
No Justice had no connection to Damian personally and the Justice League failing had nothing to do with prisoners breaking out all the time, they were facing aliens not Batman villains.
Throwing a family in the story that we've never seen before and never hear about again to make Damian snap is also pretty weak explanation for me.
Other characters get entire arcs to get characters to snap, but Glass didn't do that.
Damian going back to believing people shouldn't get the chance to change out of their own volition and are even unable to change which is why you need to lock them up permanently or need to brainwash them is also dumb when you consider what he learned in Robin: Son of Batman and by his own logic Damian should be locked up or brainwashed himself.
By going back to this mindset Damian only comes off as a hypocrite.

If we're talking about the team, the gaybaiting with Crush and Djinn is strong, Glass reminding us of Damian's arab heritage but also immediatly presenting him as a psycho and giving him a suicide vest in his fight with Jason is pretty racist in my opinion, Emiko shouldn't be a female Damian and overall this team seems to go nowhere.

As for them becoming a true team, considering that we are over 20 issues in, they failed to rescue Djinn two times and are about to fail a third time from the looks of it and because I suspect the annual got moved to take place after 44 and not after 41 to end the book at 45, considering the bad sales numbers and the amount of other titles wrapping up around the same time, I highly doubt there will be enough time to see this team actually be a team and not a group of dysfunctional people that barely have a reason to still talk with each other.

----------


## dietrich

> I never said I liked the previous run, I'm a Damian fan not a Teen Titans fan.
> As a Damian fan I think this whole direction for Damian is ridiculous.
> No Justice had no connection to Damian personally and the Justice League failing had nothing to do with prisoners breaking out all the time, they were facing aliens not Batman villains.
> Throwing a family in the story that we've never seen before and never hear about again to make Damian snap is also pretty weak explanation for me.
> Other characters get entire arcs to get characters to snap, but Glass didn't do that.
> Damian going back to believing people shouldn't get the chance to change out of their own volition and are even unable to change which is why you need to lock them up permanently or need to brainwash them is also dumb when you consider what he learned in Robin: Son of Batman and by his own logic Damian should be locked up or brainwashed himself.
> By going back to this mindset Damian only comes off as a hypocrite.
> 
> If we're talking about the team, the gaybaiting with Crush and Djinn is strong, *Glass reminding us of Damian's arab heritage but also immediatly presenting him as a psycho and giving him a suicide vest in his fight with Jason is pretty racist in my opinion*, Emiko shouldn't be a female Damian and overall this team seems to go nowhere.
> ...



Yes i found the suicide bomb vest in poor taste and OCC. It becomes even more malicious when you realise that the issue before the jason fight Alfred pulls the old 'He gets it from your side of the family' with Damian. 

"You are becoming like your father. No not your father... You are becoming like your Grandfather. Ra's Al Ghul"

Excusing his Jewish side of the family [Glass is Jewish] This Damian is nothing but the Al Ghuls'

That REALLY bothered me. When viewed along with the HUGE focus on Damian's Arabic heritage where Damian says that he's never felt at home in Gotham. 
The Arabian restaurant [or whatever the place he was enjoy his traditional Ox Blood was in] being the only place he feels at home.
It seems intentional.

Glass really really wanted us to Know Damian was mixed. More than that he wanted us to know that Damian himself viewed himself as Arabic.

----------


## Digifiend

> Not holding out hope though since Glass is co writing and this is his story.


Not any more. Glass leaves next issue. Glass and Thompson were originally solicited to do the Robin 80th anniversary story but it was just Thompson in the end. Same goes for the annual. When Djinn War is over, so is Glass's run on the book.

----------


## dietrich

Tom Taylor is working on a new Supersons and Steph Brown project

----------


## adrikito

From August Solicitations:

DARK NIGHTS: DEATH METAL LEGENDS OF THE DARK KNIGHTS #1
The DC Universe has become engulfed by the Dark Multiverse, where demons dwell and reality is overrun by monstrous versions of the Dark Knight, all ruled by the Batman Who Laughs. In this collection of short tales, learn the terrifying secrets of these* new Bats out of hell and other creatures of the night like Robin King, whose origin is just the worst!* Plus, read about the secret buried beneath Castle Bat, the sentient Batmobile, and…how did Batman turn into a dinosaur?

https://img.purch.com/h/1400/aHR0cDo...8xNTg5NDEyMjQy

I am really TIRED of  BATMAN WHO LAUGHS.. Robin King. Now another Evil Damian?(the guy closely to Man-Bats)


I want say GOODBYE Bat Who laughs and Perpetua.. They are not Good for us the fans.

----------


## adrikito

I missed Goliath.. Thanks Batman Beyond.

By 46.jpg

----------


## sifighter

*spoilers:*
 Well it appears that in Dead Planet Damian will be able to see Jason, Cassandra, and Commissioner Gordon five years after leaving the earth. In fairness I’m only saying this because of Taylor’s interview that the survivors of Unkillables will be in the sequel, but I can’t imagine that Taylor wouldn’t write some emotional meeting between them and Batman/Damian after he’s lost everyone else. 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## dietrich

> From August Solicitations:
> 
> DARK NIGHTS: DEATH METAL LEGENDS OF THE DARK KNIGHTS #1
> The DC Universe has become engulfed by the Dark Multiverse, where demons dwell and reality is overrun by monstrous versions of the Dark Knight, all ruled by the Batman Who Laughs. In this collection of short tales, learn the terrifying secrets of these* new Bats out of hell and other creatures of the night like Robin King, whose origin is just the worst!* Plus, read about the secret buried beneath Castle Bat, the sentient Batmobile, and…how did Batman turn into a dinosaur?
> 
> https://img.purch.com/h/1400/aHR0cDo...8xNTg5NDEyMjQy
> 
> I am really TIRED of  BATMAN WHO LAUGHS.. Robin King. Now another Evil Damian?(the guy closely to Man-Bats)
> 
> ...


Robin King isn't on the cover. We've already seen him in Dark Nights Metal. 

He is the damian who leads all the other Robin Crows. Damian killed him.
We saw the Batman who laughs kill all the other Robin and we saw what he did to Al;red but Damian was off screened. we don't know what was done to him aside from getting jokerised.

He seems to have some kind of powers because he is able to turn the TT's instantly.

We also just got a teaser of what that Damian did to Jon kent





This might mean we get to see the full story.
Which means we get 2 stories of Damian in this book since we already have one about a Damian Batman

----------


## dietrich

> *spoilers:*
>  Well it appears that in Dead Planet Damian will be able to see Jason, Cassandra, and Commissioner Gordon five years after leaving the earth. In fairness I’m only saying this because of Taylor’s interview that the survivors of Unkillables will be in the sequel, but I can’t imagine that Taylor wouldn’t write some emotional meeting between them and Batman/Damian after he’s lost everyone else. 
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
 I would like it if they did meet up wiyh Jason and Cass. I hope he writes a better reunion than he did in Injustice where Damian redeems jason and he betrays him in the end. 
It would be nice for Damian to have some family asidde from Alfred on Earth 2.

There's also another DCeased title Hope at world's end which has the Supersons, wally and Steph Brown 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## dietrich

"DCeased: Hope at Worlds End will expand the story of the Anti-Life War, featuring Superman and Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Stephanie Brown, Wally West, Jimmy Olsen, and more," reads DC's official description.

With Hope at World's End, we finally get to tell the tale of what Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Black Adam, Wink, the Aerie, Martian Manhunter, Black Manta, Steph Brown, Robin, Superboy and more did to save as much of humanity as they could, concluded Taylor. And Super Sons fans won't want to miss the apocalyptic adventures of Damian and Jon as they stand up to the worst crisis the Earth has ever seen, and take their first steps on the road to becoming the next World's Finest.

iT'S OUT NOW FOR 0.99P DIGITAL FIRST

----------


## dietrich

Last preview page that I missed



This out now and has the Supersons so show your support for the duo by finally supporting content with them. 

It's the same with Damian as Robin. While Adam Glass doesn't have the power to take Robin away 
[Robin is a corporate character so a writer doesn't have the power to change who is the official Robin They can only do a story where someone else takes the mantle but only for the story it doesn't affect who is officially Robin.}

Supporting good Robin content helps us get more of the same and is an incentive for more writers to use him.

----------


## sifighter

I read the first chapter, while I’m sure we will see Damian as the period in time Taylor is describing is when Damian would become Batman so we are likely to see his first attempts at being Batman. However this first chapter is about Jimmy Olsen.

----------


## CPSparkles

> I read the first chapter, while I’m sure we will see Damian as the period in time Taylor is describing is when Damian would become Batman so we are likely to see his first attempts at being Batman. However this first chapter is about Jimmy Olsen.


I wasn't aware there was another DCesaed series. That's a pleasant surprise. The series is about the whole DC universe so not surprised this is about Jimmy. It's hard work balancing all the characters in a series like this. 

I'm glad he remembered people like Jimmy, steph and cass. Characters like that don't normally get much love.
I'll check this out.

----------


## sifighter

> I wasn't aware there was another DCesaed series. That's a pleasant surprise. The series is about the whole DC universe so not surprised this is about Jimmy. It's hard work balancing all the characters in a series like this. 
> 
> I'm glad he remembered people like Jimmy, steph and cass. Characters like that don't normally get much love.
> I'll check this out.


Honestly it just got announced and then released today, it’s digital exclusive at 99 cents an issue and I think there’s going to be 14 issues total.

Then there’s the sequel series Dead Planet that’s coming out June 30th, DC is really trying to take this DCeased series and run with it.

----------


## CPSparkles

watched the Justice League Dark Apokolips War movie and it was bitter sweet.
There where so many storuies that I hopedwe'd still get and characters that I wanted flesh to see more from but it's all over.

Not surprised it's getting rave reviews it's on a whole other level and there are thing they did that we'll never get the chance to see ever again.

*spoilers:*
 TrigonSuperman
Trigon v Darksied "so you are one of the so called New Gods? I'm not impressed" This movie was the shit.

The conclusion to 3 Damian story lines with Dick, Bruce and Raven
Kori and Dick even at the end with all the fuckery are together. I don't even ship them but man they deserved more love.
Dick giving his life in an effort to save Damian was heartbreaking and then they followed up with Pit madness which just killed me.
Just once I'd love to have a universe where neither dies or gets hurt or crazy
Damian with a Kryptonite sword
Damian threatening to chop of Constatine's hands
Damian's 1st kiss
This movie is a must see. So many people that it made you feel for and then took away. Like Lex I felt for Lex Luthor

*end of spoilers*

----------


## CPSparkles

> Honestly it just got announced and then released today, it’s digital exclusive at 99 cents an issue and I think there’s going to be 14 issues total.
> 
> Then there’s the sequel series Dead Planet that’s coming out June 30th, DC is really trying to take this DCeased series and run with it.


Just read the synopsis and it sounds interesting. I was already going to pick it up for Steph and the Supersons any way.  :Smile:

----------


## adrikito

That image with Steph apparently was not a FLASHBACK or many years ago.. The comic says that this is 2 WEEKS AGO. 

The previous artist made Damian too big the previous time.

DCeased Damian robin lois lane.jpg

----------


## CPSparkles

"Crikey his oily face sure makes him a slippery Buggah"

https://doc-squash.tumblr

Tim as the Hype Beast
Damian as the hunter

----------


## CPSparkles

> That image with Steph apparently was not a FLASHBACK or many years ago.. The comic says that this is 2 WEEKS AGO. 
> 
> The previous artist made Damian too big the previous time.
> 
> DCeased Damian robin lois lane.jpg


Wow that's quite the difference. This doesn't have the edge of the previous series, Too cutsy. I'm not sure this artist is siuitable

----------


## Fergus

> Yes i found the suicide bomb vest in poor taste and OCC. It becomes even more malicious when you realise that the issue before the jason fight Alfred pulls the old 'He gets it from your side of the family' with Damian. 
> 
> "You are becoming like your father. No not your father... You are becoming like your Grandfather. Ra's Al Ghul"
> 
> Excusing his Jewish side of the family [Glass is Jewish] This Damian is nothing but the Al Ghuls'
> 
> That REALLY bothered me. When viewed along with the HUGE focus on Damian's Arabic heritage where Damian says that he's never felt at home in Gotham. 
> The Arabian restaurant [or whatever the place he was enjoy his traditional Ox Blood was in] being the only place he feels at home.
> It seems intentional.
> ...


Has there been any more on RedHood's involvement beyond lead Damian astray, possibly set him up and beat him up?

Glass is about to leave and we've got nothing. This is looking more and more like a hit job. UTRH actor and Jason Todd fanatic Jensen Ackles is a close personal friend of Glass. I'm just saying it must hurt to see a character you stan get repeatedly taken down by a pre teen.

----------


## Fergus

> I missed Goliath.. Thanks Batman Beyond.
> 
> Attachment 96824


Terry and Damian made a good match last time can't wait for this.
Hope at World's End. What a surprise drop by DC. They are really milking DCeased and Supersons.
Why not just bring back the original Supersons? my kids can't read DCeased no matter how cartoony they make the art.

----------


## Fergus

I have to say to all the Damian fans lamenting his poor treatment and raging on king.
Damian has had the best treatment of all the bat kids so please bear that in mind when you start your woe is me.

It in't king's job to write a decent Damian/Bruce story. King's job is to write a good batman story and to use his support staff to support that story.

The people at fault are Damian's writers. Glass deliberate ignored Bruce, wrote Damian going bad because reasons [there are no thought boxes for Damian so we are left in the dark as to why he is doing what he is doing.

bendis might have called Damian Baby Hitler in reference to his locking up and mindwiping villains. That's simply canon and it's not as bad as Tim going full hitler in both the present and the future.

it's not as bad as Tim attempting to kill Damian
it's not as bad as Tim attempting to kill Kate
it's not as bad as Tim attempting to kill 10 year old Jon kent
It's not as bad as tim attempting to kill bruce with Joe Chill's gun
It's not as bad as Jason threatening to kill innocent teenagers
It's not as bad as Bruce coming out as a child abuser

All the instance os Bruce been a good dad all the positive bruce being Human and positive family moments [not counting the fan service that was Bat burger] we've had since 2016 have been with
Bruce and Damian
Dick and Damian
Bruce, Dick and Damian
Bruce and Dick
Bruce and Jarro
the rest included those mentioned above + Alfred, babs and strangers.

my point is Damian has it the best out of the bat kids so stop complaining
Consider the fact that Bruce ignoring Damian's Birthday, Bruce being neglectful, Bruce beating up Jason all those are bruce being portrayed as the worst to serve Damian and Jason's story.

Damian isn't about to lose Robin permanently and there's plenty of positive Bruce and Damian stories.
Damian isn't about to become evil and not one story since rebirth has made him or even remotely hinted at that being the case.

Metal is a series about evil Batmen and Robins so what were you expecting?

----------


## Fergus

> "Crikey his oily face sure makes him a slippery Buggah"
> 
> https://doc-squash.tumblr
> 
> Tim as the Hype Beast
> Damian as the hunter


This is funny.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Has there been any more on RedHood's involvement beyond lead Damian astray, possibly set him up and beat him up?
> 
> Glass is about to leave and we've got nothing. This is looking more and more like a hit job. UTRH actor and Jason Todd fanatic Jensen Ackles is a close personal friend of Glass. I'm just saying it must hurt to see a character you stan get repeatedly taken down by a pre teen.


Dean Supernatural actor Jensen Ackles is Glass's friend? Wow.. That's explain Djinn war arc with heaven hell purgatory stuff and Roundhouse's comment about Sam and Dean. Perhaps input of Dean's name on TT 40 is Glass's apology to Jensen for ruining his favorite character XD XD  
Don't worry Jensen, ALL characters are ruined on Glass's Teen Titans book. Glad that Jason only appeared on like 2 issue and whatever happened there didn't affect Jason's character and story on RH:O (I mean, even until now we don't know the meaning of Jason's box which was used by Damian to blackmail Jason. Come on, because of that damned box Alfred said Damian is like Ra's Al-Ghul and made Jason snapped and threatened to kill Damian's teammate! You owe us some explanation, Glass!)

----------


## Light of Justice

> I have to say to all the Damian fans lamenting his poor treatment and raging on king.
> Damian has had the best treatment of all the bat kids so please bear that in mind when you start your woe is me.
> 
> It in't king's job to write a decent Damian/Bruce story. King's job is to write a good batman story and to use his support staff to support that story.
> 
> The people at fault are Damian's writers. Glass deliberate ignored Bruce, wrote Damian going bad because reasons [there are no thought boxes for Damian so we are left in the dark as to why he is doing what he is doing.
> 
> bendis might have called Damian Baby Hitler in reference to his locking up and mindwiping villains. That's simply canon and it's not as bad as Tim going full hitler in both the present and the future.
> 
> ...


I agree with all of your point except one thing.




> It in't king's job to write a decent Damian/Bruce story. King's job is to write a good batman story and to use his support staff to support that story.


I agree that King has no obligation to write Damian/Bruce story, or Batman's interaction with Batfam. But King has obligation to wrote Batman as hero, and wrote him gambled a 13 years old kid, his 13 years old kid is not a heroic act. What kind of superhero writer wrote a middle age hero stayed on the beach and did couple yoga with Selina while he sent Damian to a place full of his enemies, said enemies he ran away from? And made him punched Tim, then had a gall to call that some kind of codes? Then Tim easily accepted that, Damian easily accepted that, and still eagerly helped Bruce? Batman is a hero, role model hero, and King practically made him excused his child abuse acts? It unnerves me a lot. If he wanted to make Batman and Catwoman to be the one who save Gotham with their power of love or something, it's better if he doesn't use Batfam at all like Synder.

----------


## dietrich

> Dean Supernatural actor Jensen Ackles is Glass's friend? Wow.. That's explain Djinn war arc with heaven hell purgatory stuff and Roundhouse's comment about Sam and Dean. Perhaps input of Dean's name on TT 40 is Glass's apology to Jensen for ruining his favorite character XD XD  
> Don't worry Jensen, ALL characters are ruined on Glass's Teen Titans book. Glad that Jason only appeared on like 2 issue and whatever happened there didn't affect Jason's character and story on RH:O (I mean, even until now we don't know the meaning of Jason's box which was used by Damian to blackmail Jason. Come on, because of that damned box Alfred said Damian is like Ra's Al-Ghul and made Jason snapped and threatened to kill Damian's teammate! You owe us some explanation, Glass!)


They are more than friends. Glass is one of the Shows producers and writers. His relationship with Ackles goes way back before he got the Gig at Supernatural. Glass might have been influential in helping him get that job.

Glass really is just does comics on the side. His main gig is as a producer. Her's leaving TT to produce a netflix show

----------


## Grandmaster_J

> Has there been any more on RedHood's involvement beyond lead Damian astray, possibly set him up and beat him up?
> 
> Glass is about to leave and we've got nothing. This is looking more and more like a hit job. UTRH actor and Jason Todd fanatic Jensen Ackles is a close personal friend of Glass. I'm just saying it must hurt to see a character you stan get repeatedly taken down by a pre teen.


The prison and love triangle has been the main consistent plot point this run. Other things have a tendency to be forgotten, resolved rather quickly, not expanded upon further, or give little explanation... examples

*Emiko's grudge against, The Other. That was her whole point in joining the team and yet when we finally meet The Other, there's no interaction between the two. 
Red Hood, and what was in the box, and his own connection to The Other. 
Why Emiko shot Slade. 
The mind wiping, I mean that hasn't been mentioned since, and no future solicitations suggest exploring that again.
That idiot Roundhouse being forgiven so easily. 
Heck even Djinn War, it's only been 2 issues before it wraps up next week. 41 is going to have to do a lot, and will create more questions than answers*

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Hey, guys! This is the first time I'm commenting in here, although I'm always following the thread. 
> 
> So, what do you guys think will happen after Teen Titans annual 2? I'm very worried and sad about Bruce and Damian fighting  I just wish we could go back to that brief period in which they were getting along and keep the development moving forward.


I have a possibilities list.

- Damian will stay with nightwing (probably not)
- Damian will became a new super hero (probably not)
- Damian will freak out with Bruce/Selina's new baby and will disappers for a time
- Damian will be broken heart, because Djinn don't correspond his feelings (and titans will end).
- Damian will lose control because Alfread's Death; Djinn; Bruce's wanted baby;and all other terrible things.
- And I do think they can make Damian go for a dark side, he is without any support now and there is the future chapter when Duke is Robin. Batman beyond have Damian in the league of assassins and the apokolips too. (it's the last thing I want, but it's a maybe )

- What I would wanted the most: Damian, Maya, Jon, and 2-4 other heroes will make a new time with aquilibre betwing joy and action, Damijon romance, cries, superation, not forced stories, a little of regresse, and progresse, something that will not last just 1 year.

First time here, sorry for my english (><)/

SO! if you could decide, what should be Damian "I was Robin" storie and consequences?

----------


## Jackalope89

> I have a possibilities list.
> 
> - Damian will stay with nightwing (probably not)
> - Damian will became a new super hero (probably not)
> - Damian will freak out with Bruce/Selina's new baby and will disappers for a time
> - Damian will be broken heart, because Djinn don't correspond his feelings (and titans will end).
> - Damian will lose control because Alfread's Death; Djinn; Bruce's wanted baby;and all other terrible things.
> 
> - What I would wanted the most: Damian, Maya, Jon, and 2-4 other heroes will make a new time with aquilibre betwing joy and action, *Damijon romance*, cries, superation, not forced stories, a little of regresse, and progresse, something that will not last just 1 year.
> ...


You had me until the bolded.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

proj Damian (8)1.jpg
proj Damian (8)2.jpg

Trying to understand how forum posts work.

----------


## dietrich

> I have a possibilities list.
> 
> - Damian will stay with nightwing (probably not)
> - Damian will became a new super hero (probably not)
> - Damian will freak out with Bruce/Selina's new baby and will disappers for a time
> - Damian will be broken heart, because Djinn don't correspond his feelings (and titans will end).
> - Damian will lose control because Alfread's Death; Djinn; Bruce's wanted baby;and all other terrible things.
> 
> - What I would wanted the most: Damian, Maya, Jon, and 2-4 other heroes will make a new time with aquilibre betwing joy and action, Damijon romance, cries, superation, not forced stories, a little of regresse, and progresse, something that will not last just 1 year.
> ...


Welcome Rebecca. happy to have you
Those are only possible in the realm of fanfiction.
Robin isn't a supportr character for nightwing so never going to happen

If the issue is Damian making mistakes while doing hero work then he wouldn't be able to do ANY hero work

Selina's baby is a one shot that's already been published and isn't in continuity

Damian and Djinn isn't a thing

The most likely thing is that Damian is told off by Bruce, ground for a while and then back as Robin with TT [new or current] once all the titles are relaunched.

Jon and Damian I believe we'll continue to get stories featuring the Supersons hopefully with maya and Kathy. DC doesn't seem ready to leave that duo alone just yet.

----------


## dietrich

> Attachment 96865
> Attachment 96866
> 
> Trying to understand how forum posts work.


I get you  :Big Grin:  feel free to ask any of us if you have any problems/questions

----------


## Matches

Is it a given that all Batman collectors/readers read Teen Titans due to Damian being in the group?

Putting together my pull list and really want it due to Damian but not sure if the stories are my bag

----------


## dietrich

> Is it a given that all Batman collectors/readers read Teen Titans due to Damian being in the group?
> 
> Putting together my pull list and really want it due to Damian but not sure if the stories are my bag


I doubt that all TT readers read it for Damian.
This last run is different because it's a new team with new characters but I would say that a part of the readership is made up of TT fans who don't care who Robin is.

few Damian fans actually buy the current TT disliking how Damian is being used.

----------


## Matches

> I doubt that all TT readers read it for Damian.
> This last run is different because it's a new team with new characters but I would say that a part of the readership is made up of TT fans who don't care who Robin is.
> 
> few Damian fans actually buy the current TT disliking how Damian is being used.



Oh cool thanks. So I may want to just skip it then. I like the hardcore, smart azz, future Batman Damian. He is not that way in TT?

----------


## dietrich

> Oh cool thanks. So I may want to just skip it then. I like the hardcore, smart azz, future Batman Damian. He is not that way in TT?


No. It's confusing. TT has Damian going down a dark path but we don't get the reason why because there are no thought boxes.

It has Damian making a bunch of mistakes and bad decisions
Being less than smart and acting out of character. One scene has Damian strap a suicide vest to himself!

There's so many plot holes and hanging threads. Plot lines that go nowhere. The mainly good arc was the 3 parter that was written by Priest.

This run ties into nothing and is pretty much contained so you can ignore it while collecting Batman, Nightwing, RHATo or any other of the Batbooks

----------


## Matches

> No. It's confusing. TT has Damian going down a dark path but we don't get the reason why because there are no thought boxes.
> 
> It has Damian making a bunch of mistakes and bad decisions
> Being less than smart and acting out of character. One scene has Damian strap a suicide vest to himself!
> 
> There's so many plot holes and hanging threads. Plot lines that go nowhere. The mainly good arc was the 3 parter that was written by Priest.
> 
> This run ties into nothing and is pretty much contained so you can ignore it while collecting Batman, Nightwing, RHATo or any other of the Batbooks



Cool thanks! I will skip it. What about Super Sons, worth my time, either run?

----------


## Rac7d*

> Cool thanks! I will skip it. What about Super Sons, worth my time, either run?


A delightful run

----------


## dietrich

> Cool thanks! I will skip it. What about Super Sons, worth my time, either run?


No worries
Supersons is one of the highlights of Rebith
Adventures of the Supersons is still better than 50% of what Dc put out at the time but it's not as good as the original series which was just Outstanding.

A big part of what killed the second series for me was the knowledge that it was set in the past which killed all tension and meant there were no stakes.
Also the adventure felt a bit drawn out.

I would recommend both if you can afford it. However if you are on a budget then Just the 1st series and Rebirth Superman issues 10 and 11 which is where the boys 1st meet and get the name Supersons

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Thanks. I will ask you if I need :>

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Welcome Rebecca. happy to have you
> Those are only possible in the realm of fanfiction.
> Robin isn't a supportr character for nightwing so never going to happen
> 
> If the issue is Damian making mistakes while doing hero work then he wouldn't be able to do ANY hero work
> 
> Selina's baby is a one shot that's already been published and isn't in continuity
> 
> Damian and Djinn isn't a thing
> ...


Yeah, I read many fanfics, much of #brucewayneisagoodparent, because the comics is too cold.

----------


## adrikito

WELCOME *REBECCA ARMUS*




> I have to say to all the Damian fans lamenting his poor treatment and raging on king.
> Damian has had the best treatment of all the bat kids so please bear that in mind when you start your woe is me.
> 
> It in't king's job to write a decent Damian/Bruce story. King's job is to write a good batman story and to use his support staff to support that story.
> 
> The people at fault are Damian's writers. Glass deliberate ignored Bruce, wrote Damian going bad because reasons [there are no thought boxes for Damian so we are left in the dark as to why he is doing what he is doing.
> 
> bendis might have called Damian Baby Hitler in reference to his locking up and mindwiping villains. That's simply canon and it's not as bad as Tim going full hitler in both the present and the future.
> 
> ...


NOTHING AGAINST KING. I can´t remember the last time that he used him.

It seems that some people here will be happy with Glass run ending.  :Frown: 

BENDIS called him HITLER 1000 years later using the LEGION. To me it sounds like if he is saying that in some years he will leave Batman Family and transform in another RA´S AL GHUL and spend the rest of his life like that. That is what makes what he made TERRIBLE saying that there is NO HOPE for him.  :Mad: 


In the end I will leave Damian fanbase if DC is only able to make things like SS with him..  :Frown:  I prefer read true Damian stories or something like Batman&Robin than that.

----------


## Restingvoice

> WELCOME *REBECCA ARMUS*
> 
> 
> 
> NOTHING AGAINST KING. I can´t remember the last time that he used him.
> 
> It seems that some people here will be happy with Glass run ending. 
> 
> BENDIS called him HITLER 1000 years later using the LEGION. To me it sounds like if he is saying that in some years he will leave Batman Family and transform in another RA´S AL GHUL and spend the rest of his life like that. That is what makes what he made TERRIBLE saying that there is NO HOPE for him. 
> ...


Last time King used him was the climax of Bane arc, after escaping Thomas' hold, he fought him with the rest of the family, then alongside everyone got hypnotized by Psycho-Pirate... and I forget the resolution

----------


## adrikito

> Last time King used him was the climax of Bane arc, after escaping Thomas' hold, he fought him with the rest of the family, then alongside everyone got hypnotized by Psycho-Pirate... and I forget the resolution



Same here. Because I am unable to remember what happened I am unable to hate him.. 

I think that all of them(the batfamily) were under Mind control for the Pirate fault against Bruce.

----------


## Astralabius

> Last time King used him was the climax of Bane arc, after escaping Thomas' hold, he fought him with the rest of the family, then alongside everyone got hypnotized by Psycho-Pirate... and I forget the resolution


There really wasn't any kind of resolution. Bruce passes by the row of mind controlled family members when Selina leads him to Thomas. We get a flashback to how Thomas got from the flashpoint universe to the main universe (King absolutely botched flashpoint) and the final fight starts. The family was so unimportant to the story that the artist didn't even bother to draw them standing in the background, despite being on the cover.
The only thing we learn about them is Bruce saying that the boys came over for dinner and that they're doing well to Alfred's grave, which considering in what state "the boys" were in at the time was an....interesting statement.

----------


## Astralabius

> I agree with all of your point except one thing.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that King has no obligation to write Damian/Bruce story, or Batman's interaction with Batfam. But King has obligation to wrote Batman as hero, and wrote him gambled a 13 years old kid, his 13 years old kid is not a heroic act. What kind of superhero writer wrote a middle age hero stayed on the beach and did couple yoga with Selina while he sent Damian to a place full of his enemies, said enemies he ran away from? And made him punched Tim, then had a gall to call that some kind of codes? Then Tim easily accepted that, Damian easily accepted that, and still eagerly helped Bruce? Batman is a hero, role model hero, and King practically made him excused his child abuse acts? It unnerves me a lot. If he wanted to make Batman and Catwoman to be the one who save Gotham with their power of love or something, it's better if he doesn't use Batfam at all like Synder.


You know what was one of the worst things about how King wrote this?
The sheer stupidity and recklessness of Bruce's plan to take back the city and King having the gall to use Alfred's last message to Bruce to praise this whole thing as brilliant.

Yeah, carelessly gambling with your sons life and betting that your father will show more humanity towards Damian than you do.
Brilliant plan.

Yes, it was King's obligation to write a good batman story, not a Bruce and Damian story, but he utterly failed with both.
The run was mostly bad and probably unintentionally a terrible Bruce and Damian story too.

----------


## Grandmaster_J

> It seems that some people here will be happy with Glass run ending.


I think it's more just happy when he's off the book, maybe Thompson's direction will win some over. But no matter who's the writer, I would like the team to remain.

----------


## Rac7d*

> I think it's more just happy when he's off the book, maybe Thompson's direction will win some over. But no matter who's the writer, I would like the team to remain.


I want aqualad back

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I get you  feel free to ask any of us if you have any problems/questions


Whats is the difference in "reply with quote" and just "reply" ('=__=)/

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Why DC put Aqualad for a so short time?

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Yeah, I read many fanfics, much of #brucewayneisagoodparent, because the comics is too cold.


Damian don't have a character for make a couple, (I don't think this you happen with Raven or Mar'i Grayson).
Who could be Damian's future crush and correspond his feelings?

----------


## dietrich

> Whats is the difference in "reply with quote" and just "reply" ('=__=)/


Reply with quote has the comment you are replying to highlighted in your reply. Like above.
I replied with Quote

----------


## dietrich

This is Just reply

I don't think it was DC's choice. Adam Glass could have used him but he didn't. Honestly it feels like Glass just had stories for his new characters and to make another failed Robin. Bruce's dialogue and handling of the situation will reveal his true aim.

I thought he wanted to challenge Damian but lately others have highlighted how that might not be the case and on going back and re reading this isn't a fallout from No Justice as was implied.

----------


## dietrich

> Damian don't have a character for make a couple, (I don't think this you happen with Raven or Mar'i Grayson).
> Who could be Damian's future crush and correspond his feelings?


I think Damian is too young and emotionally under developed for a romantic relationship but in the future I don't mind Maps [if DC bring her back] or Emiko or Djinn. I don't really mind so long as it's well written and doesn't take over his narrative

----------


## Masterff

> Why DC put Aqualad for a so short time?


Aqualad is in YOUNG JUSTICE and it could be that he is also in ACTION COMICS, since Young Justice showed up there..
He is just in a new Team.

----------


## Astralabius

> Not any more. Glass leaves next issue. Glass and Thompson were originally solicited to do the Robin 80th anniversary story but it was just Thompson in the end. Same goes for the annual. When Djinn War is over, so is Glass's run on the book.


That's true. Glass is still listed in the solicitation for August though. If he wasn't involved anymore that would have been their chance to just list Thompson, but they didn't do that.

----------


## Astralabius

> Yes i found the suicide bomb vest in poor taste and OCC. It becomes even more malicious when you realise that the issue before the jason fight Alfred pulls the old 'He gets it from your side of the family' with Damian. 
> 
> "You are becoming like your father. No not your father... You are becoming like your Grandfather. Ra's Al Ghul"
> 
> Excusing his Jewish side of the family [Glass is Jewish] This Damian is nothing but the Al Ghuls'
> 
> That REALLY bothered me. When viewed along with the HUGE focus on Damian's Arabic heritage where Damian says that he's never felt at home in Gotham. 
> The Arabian restaurant [or whatever the place he was enjoy his traditional Ox Blood was in] being the only place he feels at home.
> It seems intentional.
> ...


It definitely came off as malicious to me to highlight Damian's cultural heritage that way and then connect it to Damian going rogue.
It always bothers me when writers pretend Damian got all his bad traits from the al Ghuls and all the good ones from the Waynes. Ra's isn't the opposite of Bruce and as Bruce admitted in Batman and Robin himself, he and his son struggle with a lot of the same problems.

In a way it's even funny how similar Bruce and Damian actually are right now. Secret prisons they didn't tell team mates about, prisons designed to keep the worst criminals inside, lying to everyone, accusing Jason and fighting him for things he didn't do, a general frustration with criminals becoming worse and worse...but more on that at the end of my post.

It's not like Damian wouldn't have had reasons to start doubting Bruce, that's not my main issue with this run.
It's that Glass wrote Damian going rogue without really exploring the legitimate reasons Damian would have for doing so, he connected Damian acting this way to his blood from his mothers side, to an event that Damian didn't play a huge role in and to a man dying the audience had no reason to care about. Meanwhile things that should have had a big impact on Damian that readers would have cared about, like what happened to Dick, Jon and recently Alfred, get ignored in TT.
The overall feeling I got since the very beginning of this run is that Glass isn't interested at all in developing Damian, making him sympathetic to readers or letting him grow. I would even go as far as to say that he possible just wants to tear him down.

Thompson did a lot better than Glass did in Bat and Mouse. I still can't help but fear that we might get a pretty black and white confrontation in the annual and not Bruce and Damian facing their mistakes with honesty and trying to find a solution together though. It's not impossible, I just know from experience that Bruce gets away with being a hypocrite all the time.
I also wonder if "Damian making criminals pay the ultimate price" again is a reaction to DC realizing Bruce and Damian are actually at a pretty similar point right now and need Damian to commit something worse to make Bruce look justified should it really come to Bruce fighting Damian or firing him. That's just speculation though.

----------


## Astralabius

> No. It's confusing. TT has Damian going down a dark path but we don't get the reason why because there are no thought boxes.
> 
> It has Damian making a bunch of mistakes and bad decisions
> Being less than smart and acting out of character. One scene has Damian strap a suicide vest to himself!
> 
> There's so many plot holes and hanging threads. Plot lines that go nowhere. The mainly good arc was the 3 parter that was written by Priest.
> 
> This run ties into nothing and is pretty much contained so you can ignore it while collecting Batman, Nightwing, RHATo or any other of the Batbooks


That's something I've noticed too.

Sure, they touched the topic of Bruce and Damian being at odds here and there when Damian made an appearance in Detective Comics, but overall it's like Teen Titans is in its own little bubble.

TT Damian and Damian in every other book are like two different characters.
TT Damian is off the grid, doesn't talk to Batman and doesn't work with him.
Meanwhile every other book has Damian coming to help Bruce enact his plans or help him with cases, coming when Bruce calls for battle, worrying about Bruce's safety, refusing when villains ask him to betray his father...

It's like Glass wanted one direction for Damian and most other writers don't agree. But TT is Damian's main book, so it might have more weight than Damian's appearances outside his book for his overall direction.

----------


## CPSparkles

Justice League of China v Teen Titans



Bernard Chang

----------


## The Whovian

> Justice League of China v Teen Titans
> 
> 
> 
> Bernard Chang


Nice! Whatever happened to the JLA of China?

----------


## sifighter

> Nice! Whatever happened to the JLA of China?


I only know that Avery, the Flash of China, constantly appears in Williamsons Flash(also I think a panel in Batman/Superman) even appearing in the upcoming final story arc from Williamson. In fact I think shes dating Wallace, though I might have that wrong.

----------


## adrikito

> Justice League of China v Teen Titans
> 
> 
> 
> Bernard Chang


Wow. I like it. I miss them.

----------


## Grandmaster_J

> Nice! Whatever happened to the JLA of China?


Book was cancelled unfortunately though the team is still together according to, Avery, whenever she appears in, The Flash.




> I only know that Avery, the Flash of China, constantly appears in Williamsons Flash(also I think a panel in Batman/Superman) even appearing in the upcoming final story arc from Williamson. In fact I think shes dating Wallace, though I might have that wrong.


They should be dating but they're not, just good friends. Avery's probably the best match for, Wallace. They did flirt one time before, though.

----------


## sifighter

> Book was cancelled unfortunately though the team is still together according to, Avery, whenever she appears in, The Flash.
> 
> 
> 
> They should be dating but they're not, just good friends. Avery's probably the best match for, Wallace. They did flirt one time before, though.


Oh weird I thought they were for some reason, oh well. But yeah, she’s hanging out with Wallace in Flash and has been seen at the Hall of Justice (but who isn’t these days, but mainly because Williamson was writing Batman/Superman).

----------


## Light of Justice

Teen Titans #41 preview

https://aiptcomics.com/2020/05/22/295501/

teen-titans_cover.jpg

----------


## Light of Justice

How do I make pictures that I've attached bigger?
teen-titans_1.jpg
teen-titans_2.jpg
teen-titans_3.jpg

----------


## Light of Justice

teen-titans_4.jpg
teen-titans_5.jpg
teen-titans_6.jpg

----------


## Light of Justice

1. Emiko, congratulation for your first kiss, I guess? XD
2. I don't know anything about Jakeem, so he can summon genie like Djinn? So now Djinn belongs to Jakeem? CMIIW
3. What I like about this team is literally no one can brooding without other interrupting or complaining. "You feel bad? Sucks to you, but we've had problem on hand so stop bitching about feeling and move your sorry ass!" Teenagers.. XD
4. I don't know Damian, they willingly drank your poison, they willingly walk into nasty labyrinth which only you know the way out, they willingly fight their nightmare when you say so, I think they don't trust you at all XD

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I think Damian have a characteristic of mirror the other person personality. (It's a little sociopathy characteristic).
Dick is Dick no matter who he is close, but Damian is a different person with Jon, Batman, Grayson, the old TT, the new TT (where he is too much more agressive.)
I don't think TT have beeing well writing. I think it's make sense at some point, and after this, it is a disaster.
I also think this rebel posture is he screaming for attention again, just like Jason, they can be sweet having more attention, but they lost control of how deal with rejection and how prove themselves, and in some point everything explode and the circle re-start worst.
*plus
But why Damian ate meat? Why??? Looks like the new writer didn't read the last work. (Ah!)

----------


## Grandmaster_J

It's way too late to still be having the "I don't trust, Damian" conversation, again. If it's not possible to have their trust than maybe they should finally dissolve. I know their kids but come on.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I think Damian have a characteristic of mirror the other person personality. (It's a little sociopathy characteristic).
> Dick is Dick no matter who he is close, but Damian is a different person with Jon, Batman, Grayson, the old TT, the new TT (where he is too much more agressive.)
> I don't think TT have beeing well writing. I think it's make sense at some point, and after this, it is a disaster.
> I also think this rebel posture is he screaming for attention again, just like Jason, they can be sweet having more attention, but they lost control of how deal with rejection and how prove themselves, and in some point everything explode and the circle re-start worst.
> *plus
> But why Damian ate meat? Why??? Looks like the new writer didn't read the last work. (Ah!)


I think it more depend on his writers. Damian is a very difficult and complex character, so every writer will have their own understanding of Damian's personality, to the point that you can feel the difference when Damian get shifted from one writer into different writer. Also, almost all writer seems like want to write his redemption or character development from beginning so they must regress his character when they first wrote him to make a plot for his development. Even good Damian writers like Tomasi, Seeley, and Gleason did that.

Wait, when did Damian eat meat in preview? About him became vegetarian, it's kinda inconsistent. In Batman&Robin's Tomasi he ate chicken, in his Supersons he ate veggie kebab, then on Robin anniversary he ate burger. Under King's hand he ate burger, under Bendis he ate hot dog, I also recall he ate pizza on but I don't remember the issue, also on Batman vs TMTT movie he ate pepperoni pizza.

----------


## Light of Justice

> It's way too late to still be having the "I don't trust, Damian" conversation, again. If it's not possible to have their trust than maybe they should finally dissolve. I know their kids but come on.


From my understanding, his team already trust him, even Roundhouse said so. What baffled me is why Damian still ask for it when they just literally came from hell together, with him as their only lead. 
Besides, if his team can't completely trust him, I can't blame them. I mean, only 30 minutes ago they learned that Damian had a plan to take them down for good.

----------


## redmax99

> 1. Emiko, congratulation for your first kiss, I guess? XD
> 2. I don't know anything about Jakeem, so he can summon genie like Djinn? So now Djinn belongs to Jakeem? CMIIW
> 3. What I like about this team is literally no one can brooding without other interrupting or complaining. "You feel bad? Sucks to you, but we've had problem on hand so stop bitching about feeling and move your sorry ass!" Teenagers.. XD
> 4. I don't know Damian, they willingly drank your poison, they willingly walk into nasty labyrinth which only you know the way out, they willingly fight their nightmare when you say so, I think they don't trust you at all XD


2.no thunder belong to jakeem and johnni thunder and they're apart of the JSA.

----------


## Light of Justice

damian baby teeth.jpg

artist : sukreih (deviantart)

Just random thought I have while showered, is it pure coincidence that both of Bruce's blood children with different mothers have Greek names? 
Damian, derived from Greek word Damianos, means 'to tame'. 
Helena, derived from ancient Greek figure's name Helen of Troy, means 'light or torch'.

Simply thought that it's interesting.

----------


## sifighter

> 1. Emiko, congratulation for your first kiss, I guess? XD
> 2. I don't know anything about Jakeem, so he can summon genie like Djinn? So now Djinn belongs to Jakeem? CMIIW
> 3. What I like about this team is literally no one can brooding without other interrupting or complaining. "You feel bad? Sucks to you, but we've had problem on hand so stop bitching about feeling and move your sorry ass!" Teenagers.. XD
> 4. I don't know Damian, they willingly drank your poison, they willingly walk into nasty labyrinth which only you know the way out, they willingly fight their nightmare when you say so, I think they don't trust you at all XD


When it comes to Jakeem it’s not exactly ownership of the genie, it’s more of a partnership as the genie has two consciousness in it, the genie and founding JSA member Johnny Thunder.

Quick bit of JSA history, Johnny Thunder was a founding member of the JSA and he had a genie, but unlike others in the JSA he actually got old and developed Alzheimer’s so it was to dangerous to use the genie and therefore it got put into a pen. Jakeem later found the pen and became the new partner of the genie, who’s magic could get a bit out of hand if he’s not clear enough on the wish. Later Johnny Thunder would die, after saving the day one last time, and the genie, thanks to a wish by Jakeem, decided to save Johnny in a way by fusing into one being. This was brought up in Doomsday Clock, the story which brought Jakeem and the rest of the JSA back into continuity.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I think it more depend on his writers. Damian is a very difficult and complex character, so every writer will have their own understanding of Damian's personality, to the point that you can feel the difference when Damian get shifted from one writer into different writer. Also, almost all writer seems like want to write his redemption or character development from beginning so they must regress his character when they first wrote him to make a plot for his development. Even good Damian writers like Tomasi, Seeley, and Gleason did that.
> 
> Wait, when did Damian eat meat in preview? About him became vegetarian, it's kinda inconsistent. In Batman&Robin's Tomasi he ate chicken, in his Supersons he ate veggie kebab, then on Robin anniversary he ate burger. Under King's hand he ate burger, under Bendis he ate hot dog, I also recall he ate pizza on but I don't remember the issue, also on Batman vs TMTT movie he ate pepperoni pizza.


You have a good point, it's looks like vanity of each writter :/ I don't like a full/ constant progressive of characters, because in real life it's don't happen, but now you said this a new writter look a mini-reboot =__= (? But one thinking I have is that Damian was so soft when he meet 17 years Jon, "Sorry for not being there for help you" MY HEART IS MELTING! I read much more mangas, and the fast narrative and inconsistency os character and each one force annoying me.
So in TT Special #1 he eats ox blood soup, it couldn't be more bloddy.
I live the idea of Damian being vegetarian, there is things I just tought 'it's can be a vegetarian burguer", but how you said, it's just inconstant.
I loved TMTT movie, is just funny, Damian have a little odd way of speak and a childish adorable behave ♡♡♡

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> From my understanding, his team already trust him, even Roundhouse said so. What baffled me is why Damian still ask for it when they just literally came from hell together, with him as their only lead. 
> Besides, if his team can't completely trust him, I can't blame them. I mean, only 30 minutes ago they learned that Damian had a plan to take them down for good.


I tought TT trust so suddenly! They could be more "we are saving Djinn and after this we are finished", would be more interesting if while they try to save Djinn a plot of confidence happen.
Hum, Batman have a plan to take everybody and JL trust him. Damian is so innocent when he talks about the poison XD like when he said to Jon ipf there is gold kriptonite Batman need have it in batcave.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I tought TT trust so suddenly! They could be more "we are saving Djinn and after this we are finished", would be more interesting if while they try to save Djinn a plot of confidence happen.
> Hum, Batman have a plan to take everybody and JL trust him. Damian is so innocent when he talks about the poison XD like when he said to Jon ipf there is gold kriptonite Batman need have it in batcave.


Actually, in Tower of Babel, when Batman's plans were revealed rather bluntly, he lost the trust of the JL for a good time. Mainly due to the fact he never told them he had plans to take them down in case they were ever brainwashed or what not.

----------


## Astralabius

> Attachment 96937
> Attachment 96938
> Attachment 96939


It was to be expected, but I'm still a bit baffled that they're going to wrap up the Djinn War in the remaining 14 pages of this issue. Unless the fight against Elias bleeds over into the next arc that's going to be a short war between Elias, his forces and the Teen Titans.

I assume the original solicitation for issue 42 isn't accurate anymore, now that they moved the annual back to take place after 44 and not 41. So maybe they'll use that to make the pacing less rushed.

----------


## Fergus

IGN's Top 25 Heroes of DC Comics for 2019

Damian just made it onto the list at no 25. Not bad for a fairly recent character

https://www.ign.com/articles/the-top...s-of-dc-comics

----------


## Fergus

> How do I make pictures that I've attached bigger?
> Attachment 96932
> Attachment 96935
> Attachment 96936


Right click on the image you want to copy
select copy image address
then in the insert image tab above select the option [the from URL option]
uncheck the box that says ' Retrieve remote file and reference locally'
and submit

----------


## Rebeca Armus

What site do you use to read TT?

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Test of post image.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Right click on the image you want to copy
> select copy image address
> then in the insert image tab above select the option [the from URL option]
> uncheck the box that says ' Retrieve remote file and reference locally'
> and submit


Amazing! thanks.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> IGN's Top 25 Heroes of DC Comics for 2019
> 
> Damian just made it onto the list at no 25. Not bad for a fairly recent character
> 
> https://www.ign.com/articles/the-top...s-of-dc-comics


Anyone beside me feel proud of him? ><

----------


## CPSparkles

> Anyone beside me feel proud of him? ><


I do. Damian is a great character it's good to see others enjoy him and give respect to the  accomplishment of many creatives who have contributed to making him such a well developed and complex character.

I know it's subjective yet I'm still very proud. He's the newest character on the list and DC has a ton of characters.

----------


## CPSparkles

> What site do you use to read TT?


I use comixology.

----------


## shadow6743

Does anyone else get the impression that Teen Titans storyline had to change because 5G isn't happening anymore. Like the annual was meant to come out sooner but it got moved to August. Also the preview has the pacing be a lot more rushed than usual for Glass. I feel like Djinn was not supposed to forgive Roundhouse and was originally was going to be stuck in her ring. Causing Damian to start taking out villains starting with KG Beast and then Bruce would fire him. Meaning that all of Bruce's sons would be off the table and they could move ahead with Luke Fox being the new Batman.

Just a theory I had. I be really surprised if the solicitations were correct now.

----------


## Astralabius

> Does anyone else get the impression that Teen Titans storyline had to change because 5G isn't happening anymore. Like the annual was meant to come out sooner but it got moved to August. Also the preview has the pacing be a lot more rushed than usual for Glass. I feel like Djinn was not supposed to forgive Roundhouse and was originally was going to be stuck in her ring. Causing Damian to start taking out villains starting with KG Beast and then Bruce would fire him. Meaning that all of Bruce's sons would be off the table and they could move ahead with Luke Fox being the new Batman.
> 
> Just a theory I had. I be really surprised if the solicitations were correct now.


The pacing in this issue is rushed because it's the last normal issue with Glass as the main writer, Djinn War is the last arc before Thompson takes over as the new main writer because Glass got work from Netflix. So I don't think that is one of the changes. The others forgave Roundhouse rather fast too.

The solicitations for June that had Damian still dressed as Robin and fighting KGBeast came out about three weeks after Didio was fired and 5G was his baby. I'm not an expert on what's going on behind the scenes at DC so I can't say if three weeks are enough to make big changes to the solicitations for what is already in the works. It was the lockdown that gave DC more time to think about how to proceed without Didio and his plans for the future, so if Teen Titans was originally supposed to go in a different direction they must have decided that rather quickly after Didio was fired. All we know is that the solicitation for 42 only makes sense with the annual taking place before it.
I do think the solicitations for 43 and especially for 44 are accurate though. They match up with each other and the solicitation for 44 leads directly into the confrontation between Bruce and Damian. The only one I think isn't accurate anymore is the one that came out in February for 42.
Mercy Hall and Robin can't be gone after Batman's visit if Batman doesn't show up before 42, assuming the story is told in chronological order.

But yes, pretty sure DC wanted to use this as an opportunity to kick Damian out the role to pave the way for Luke as Batman. If they still want to fire Damian now, who knows?
The reason for the delay of the annual might be that the headquarters and possibly the team leader being gone put Thompson in a difficult position. Theres also the possibility that the book is going to end in August/September like a lot of other DC titles and the confrontation between father and son makes a lot of sense as a final. I have a hard time believing the team could continue to work as they used to once Batman pays attention to them.

----------


## dietrich

> Does anyone else get the impression that Teen Titans storyline had to change because 5G isn't happening anymore. Like the annual was meant to come out sooner but it got moved to August. Also the preview has the pacing be a lot more rushed than usual for Glass. I feel like Djinn was not supposed to forgive Roundhouse and was originally was going to be stuck in her ring. Causing Damian to start taking out villains starting with KG Beast and then Bruce would fire him. Meaning that all of Bruce's sons would be off the table and they could move ahead with Luke Fox being the new Batman.
> 
> Just a theory I had. I be really surprised if the solicitations were correct now.


AT&T was also in favour of going ahead with 5G which was a risky venture even more risky now that Luke will have to compete with Dickbats [part of the Synder Dick Grayson pitch which will happen] and DamiBats in DCeased.

The TT book with Damian going after KGBeast is likely set just after the 2nd Nightwing Annual which is set before Alfred RIP and the Robin 80th story.

Why would Djinn being in hell lead Damian to hunt him down if shooting Dick Grayson didn't?

Robin isn't a character that is changed just like that. Robin as an IP is far too important to be changed on a whim.
Why would Damian need to be kicked out for Luke to become Batman it's not like 13 year old shorty Damian would have ever become The Batman. 

Luke and 5G were never the reason behind the Glass tT direction. They couldn't have been since Damian's too young and under 5 foot.

There's a lot of change happening and it's difficult to get a read on what the deal with TT. Glass and Thompson don't ever talk or post anything about the series [the4y do for other projects] DC doesn't. It's a barren land out there on the net when it comes to this TT run [Percy's was different]

I don't see this Tt team carrying on though. The new members are divisive, majority Damian fans hate it and the sales figures haven't been great.

Damian will be okay. Wally too but the rest I'not so sure.

----------


## dietrich

> IGN's Top 25 Heroes of DC Comics for 2019
> 
> Damian just made it onto the list at no 25. Not bad for a fairly recent character
> 
> https://www.ign.com/articles/the-top...s-of-dc-comics


Cool and good to see that others respect Dick Grayson and Damian even if DC allows creators to mis-manage them

----------


## shadow6743

> AT&T was also in favour of going ahead with 5G which was a risky venture even more risky now that Luke will have to compete with Dickbats [part of the Synder Dick Grayson pitch which will happen] and DamiBats in DCeased.
> 
> The TT book with Damian going after KGBeast is likely set just after the 2nd Nightwing Annual which is set before Alfred RIP and the Robin 80th story.
> 
> Why would Djinn being in hell lead Damian to hunt him down if shooting Dick Grayson didn't?
> 
> Robin isn't a character that is changed just like that. Robin as an IP is far too important to be changed on a whim.
> Why would Damian need to be kicked out for Luke to become Batman it's not like 13 year old shorty Damian would have ever become The Batman. 
> 
> ...


Actually it sells the same as Percy's run in direct sales and it sells quite well in trades. It still on the top selling DC books alongside Percy's run.

If you compare both volume 1 on the sales charts on Amazon Percy's run was ranked 1,288 in DC Comics & Graphic Novels.

Glass' volume 1 was ranked #982 in DC Comics & Graphic Novels. This is a comparison of all DC graphic Novels sold on Amazon. So, I doubt Teen Titans is going to be canceled. Also some Damian fans may not like it but it does well with long time Titans and new fans of the Teen Titans.

----------


## Astralabius

> AT&T was also in favour of going ahead with 5G which was a risky venture even more risky now that Luke will have to compete with Dickbats [part of the Synder Dick Grayson pitch which will happen] and DamiBats in DCeased.
> 
> The TT book with Damian going after KGBeast is likely set just after the 2nd Nightwing Annual which is set before Alfred RIP and the Robin 80th story.
> 
> Why would Djinn being in hell lead Damian to hunt him down if shooting Dick Grayson didn't?
> 
> Robin isn't a character that is changed just like that. Robin as an IP is far too important to be changed on a whim.
> Why would Damian need to be kicked out for Luke to become Batman it's not like 13 year old shorty Damian would have ever become The Batman. 
> 
> ...


Do you mean the third Nightwing Annual? Wasn't the second one just about Dick waking up, having an argument with Bruce and getting manipulated by the owls? I know Pennyworth RIP mentioned it taking place before Annual 2 but that doesn't make sense when you consider that the second Nightwing annual takes place before Nightwing 50 and we see Alfred visiting Ric in 51.

And it's not about Damian being a competitor for Luke as Batman, it's about Damian being Robin to Luke's Batman. Doesn't really fit.

----------


## Astralabius

> Actually it sells the same as Percy's run in direct sales and it sells quite well in trades. It still on the top selling DC books alongside Percy's run.
> 
> If you compare both volume 1 on the sales charts on Amazon Percy's run was ranked 1,288 in DC Comics & Graphic Novels.
> 
> Glass' volume 1 was ranked #982 in DC Comics & Graphic Novels. This is a comparison of all DC graphic Novels sold on Amazon. So, I doubt Teen Titans is going to be canceled. Also some Damian fans may not like it but it does well with long time Titans and new fans of the Teen Titans.


No it doesn't sell the same as Percy's run. 
Firsts always sell pretty well, look at the numbers for later issues.
It sold about the same as the last issues of Percy's run up until the reveal of The Other, since then the sales have been in sharp decline.
The numbers for single issues have been below 20k since December and have fallen to 16,6k by April.

----------


## Astralabius

A lot of titles are wrapping up at the end of summer/next fall, either getting cancelled or preparing for a relaunch. As Dietrich pointed out we don't hear a lot from the creators so it's hard to tell where this is going, but I really wouldn't be suprised if DC simply used Batman shutting this team down to end the book.

----------


## Astralabius

Doesn't mean the annual has to end with Damian getting fired. Damian founded the team after a falling out with Bruce, them fixing their relationship or wanting to work together again also works as an explanation for why the team might disband.
Whatever direction DC decides on, things should be different after the annual. If not they could have simply left it at it's original spot.

----------


## shadow6743

> No it doesn't sell the same as Percy's run. 
> Firsts always sell pretty well, look at the numbers for later issues.
> It sold about the same as the last issues of Percy's run up until the reveal of The Other, since then the sales have been in sharp decline.
> 
> 
> The numbers for single issues have been below 20k since December and have fallen to 16,6k by April.


I noticed that now that I looked at the sales charts. Its interesting. I don't think the book lost many readers in direct sales and it does well in trade and is constant in being at the top of digital sales. I wonder how many people actually dropped the book or are trade waiting. Between 30k to 15k at the lowest end seems to be typical for the Titans books since Rebirth.

Due to the virus I would only be worried about any book if it wasn't at least maybe in the top 100 of digital sales on comixology.

----------


## shadow6743

> Doesn't mean the annual has to end with Damian getting fired. Damian founded the team after a falling out with Bruce, them fixing their relationship or wanting to work together again also works as an explanation for why the team might disband.
> Whatever direction DC decides on, things should be different after the annual. If not they could have simply left it at it's original spot.


I thought about it the Titans disbanding and coming back together after a while is kind of a stable at this point. Anyone who has read Graduation Day which is really good. Knows that event leads into Geoff John's Teen Titans. Same with the Outsiders ending so the orginal Titans could form the new Titans team. A lot of books are nearing 50 to 60 issues. A lot of them could just be finishing up storylines to reprint a number 1. I would do the same thing at this point since a lot of people don't like buying higher issue numbers.

Although I understand the notion I really want to see books like Wonder Woman, Batman,  Superman and Teen Titans reach 100 issues or more. The last book I can remember reaching that many issues was Geoff John's Green Lantern run and maybe JSA.

I just kind of like the idea of watching a story continue its progress. I like that they didn't change Teen Titans numbering when Damian got a new team because I think to read Glass' run you need to see the events that happened in Percy's run. Like if I was collecting them for a Omnibus I would both runs together and No Justice for context.

----------


## Astralabius

> I noticed that now that I looked at the sales charts. Its interesting. I don't think the book lost many readers in direct sales and it does well in trade and is constant in being at the top of digital sales. I wonder how many people actually dropped the book or are trade waiting. Between 30k to 15k at the lowest end seems to be typical for the Titans books since Rebirth.
> 
> Due to the virus I would only be worried about any book if it wasn't at least maybe in the top 100 of digital sales on comixology.


Digital sales only make up a small percentage of comics DC sells, I would never use those numbers to determine if a book is doing well.

----------


## Astralabius

> I thought about it the Titans disbanding and coming back together after a while is kind of a stable at this point. Anyone who has read Graduation Day which is really good. Knows that event leads into Geoff John's Teen Titans. Same with the Outsiders ending so the orginal Titans could form the new Titans team. A lot of books are nearing 50 to 60 issues. A lot of them could just be finishing up storylines to reprint a number 1. I would do the same thing at this point since a lot of people don't like buying higher issue numbers.
> 
> Although I understand the notion I really want to see books like Wonder Woman, Batman,  Superman and Teen Titans reach 100 issues or more. The last book I can remember reaching that many issues was Geoff John's Green Lantern run and maybe JSA.
> 
> I just kind of like the idea of watching a story continue its progress. I like that they didn't change Teen Titans numbering when Damian got a new team because I think to read Glass' run you need to see the events that happened in Percy's run. Like if I was collecting them for a Omnibus I would both runs together and No Justice for context.


A book like this Teen Titans run going for another 55 issues? Highly doubt it. Unless you're a really big title like Batman you're not getting to 100 nowadays. And even that was apparently supposed to be get a new #1 before 5G got canned.

I also think that this team in this form doesn't have a lot of staying power. Glass didn't do a good job with the established characters (Damian, Wally, Emiko) and his own creations don't have many connections to bigger characters.
The team has stayed in it's own little bubble almost the entire time, so it's not like they would be missed in the DC universe. Unless another writer is really passionate about them I expect most of them to vanish like a lot of former Teen Titans characters have.

Sorry, but I always thought the connection between Glass's run and No Justice was laughable. It explains why the first team disbanded, but it doesn't really explain why Damian suddenly thinks he needs to lock people up for all eternity.

----------


## Astralabius

Edit: Didn't mean to post this twice

----------


## shadow6743

> A book like this Teen Titans run going for another 55 issues? Highly doubt it. Unless you're a really big title like Batman you're not getting to 100 nowadays. And even that was apparently supposed to be get a new #1 before 5G got canned.
> 
> I also think that this team in this form doesn't have a lot of staying power. Glass didn't do a good job with the established characters (Damian, Wally, Emiko) and his own creations don't have many connections to bigger characters.
> The team has stayed in it's own little bubble almost the entire time, so it's not like they would be missed in the DC universe. Unless another writer is really passionate about them I expect most of them to vanish like a lot of former Teen Titans characters have.
> 
> Sorry, but I always thought the connection between Glass's run and No Justice was laughable. It explains why the first team disbanded, but it doesn't really explain why Damian suddenly thinks he needs to lock people up for all eternity.


I know this run would never reach 100 issues. Geoff John's only got his Titans run to reach 50 issues and that run is one of the most well liked. I kind of feel like a lot of the DC Universe is in it's own bubble now a days. Unless your Batman, Superman or Wonder Woman your not appearing in other books. Also Glass did want to cross over with the Titans at one point but Abnett's run got canceled before they could write it. Some writers have used Glass' characters in other books Crush and Roundhouse have appeared in other titles. I know the team has appeared in Synder's Justice League being trained by Black Canary. 

I think the foundation to make them stay is there but your right another writer has to care enough to make that happen. But every character at some point has undergone this move so only time will tell.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

There is anybody that think Damian could be Nightwing or Flamebird?
Even it's no for a long time, just for shake things a little. 
*sorry for interrupt the discussion, I can't go keep understanding this level of knowledge, abbreviations and english >____<

----------


## dietrich

> Do you mean the third Nightwing Annual? Wasn't the second one just about Dick waking up, having an argument with Bruce and getting manipulated by the owls? I know Pennyworth RIP mentioned it taking place before Annual 2 but that doesn't make sense when you consider that the second Nightwing annual takes place before Nightwing 50 and we see Alfred visiting Ric in 51.
> 
> And it's not about Damian being a competitor for Luke as Batman, it's about Damian being Robin to Luke's Batman. Doesn't really fit.


Yes i was talking about the Nightwing Annual when Dick wakes up. I assumed that annual was the catalyst for Damian seeking out KGBeast since he asked Bruce whether he he killed him and Bruce said no.

Later on Dick rejects them and doesn't remember him.
That would be his lowest point

It makes sense that Dick forgetting him would cause Damian to lose it and want revenge.

Both writers of RIP didn't do a good job. That title was full of mistakes. It was the 10th anniversary of Bruce's parents death yet Bruce was mourning Damian in one of the stories we saw. It's just a mess.

I don't think the plan was ever for Damian to be his Robin.
Batman and Robin haven't been a thing since the days when Jason was Robin.

Morrison brought them back for his run but prior to that the duo were mostly seen in the Robin series or in events.

I don't know I just don't think the event's of TT has anything to do with 5G

----------


## dietrich

> There is anybody that think Damian could be Nightwing or Flamebird?
> Even it's no for a long time, just for shake things a little. 
> *sorry for interrupt the discussion, I can't go keep understanding this level of knowledge, abbreviations and english >____<


Damian could be Nightwing but not right now or anytime soon in main continuity for 2 reasons:

Dick and the Nightwing title has been damaged so much since this Ric nonsense started. It needs to be rebuilt. DC needs to get the title and Dick's characters some attention and investment to bring it back where it was [one of DC's best selling IP's]
so this isn't the time for anyone to be taking over or anything. The focus needs to be on Dick Grayson doing his thing and taking center stage.

-Damian is 13 that's too young for him to be Nightwing and after TT where he made the wrong choices I don't think it's a good direction to give him even more responsibility. Looking after a city is different from working cases on a team.

Nightwing isn't really like Robin that gets passed on but if Dick does ever decide to give it all up then Damian is the one that makes the most sense but not yet.

----------


## dietrich

> I know this run would never reach 100 issues. Geoff John's only got his Titans run to reach 50 issues and that run is one of the most well liked. I kind of feel like a lot of the DC Universe is in it's own bubble now a days. Unless your Batman, Superman or Wonder Woman your not appearing in other books. Also Glass did want to cross over with the Titans at one point but Abnett's run got canceled before they could write it. Some writers have used Glass' characters in other books Crush and Roundhouse have appeared in other titles. I know the team has appeared in Synder's Justice League being trained by Black Canary. 
> 
> I think the foundation to make them stay is there but your right another writer has to care enough to make that happen. But every character at some point has undergone this move so only time will tell.


The thing with this team is that they don't feel like a team and this whole run has a really mean spirited vibe to it.
They don't give off the TT's vibe. They are outlaws. Formed without the knowledge of any responsible adults with the objective to do what the JL won't.

They are renegades. Anti-heroes and that's not what TT is about. They came together for the wrong reasons and that reason isn't sustainable.
I don't know what the future holds but one thing is clear, the days of titles flying under the radar is over.

----------


## dietrich

> I think it more depend on his writers. Damian is a very difficult and complex character, so every writer will have their own understanding of Damian's personality, to the point that you can feel the difference when Damian get shifted from one writer into different writer. Also, almost all writer seems like want to write his redemption or character development from beginning so they must regress his character when they first wrote him to make a plot for his development. Even good Damian writers like Tomasi, Seeley, and Gleason did that.
> 
> Wait, when did Damian eat meat in preview? About him became vegetarian, it's kinda inconsistent. In Batman&Robin's Tomasi he ate chicken, in his Supersons he ate veggie kebab, then on Robin anniversary he ate burger. Under King's hand he ate burger, under Bendis he ate hot dog, I also recall he ate pizza on but I don't remember the issue, also on Batman vs TMTT movie he ate pepperoni pizza.


When did Seeley and Gleason regress him?

Tomasi's batman and Robin was outstanding and he handles Damian very well but he did regress Damian not just in Supersons but also in Batman and Robin. For the person who gave us Damian's 1st pet he also wrote Damian killing a bat and ignored the vegetarian thing.

I choose to believe that was a veggie burger and a veggie dog that he was eating in those books.

----------


## shadow6743

> The thing with this team is that they don't feel like a team and this whole run has a really mean spirited vibe to it.
> They don't give off the TT's vibe. They are outlaws. Formed without the knowledge of any responsible adults with the objective to do what the JL won't.
> 
> They are renegades. Anti-heroes and that's not what TT is about. They came together for the wrong reasons and that reason isn't sustainable.
> I don't know what the future holds but one thing is clear, the days of titles flying under the radar is over.


The orginal Teen Titans didn't form under adult supervision either. Pre Crisis Dick formed the team to literally take on cases that the JL or JLA wouldn't do since they effected kids. The adults literally didn't want their sidekicks teaming up and fighting crime without them. If you read Teen Titans year one none of the adults take the kids view of crime fighting and their issues seriously causing Dick to form the first generation of Titans.

Also we forget if you read New Teen Titans they only become a team because Raven gathered them to fight her dad. She also uses some magic to team members like Wally and Dick to nearly fall in love with her and get them to stay on the team. Teen Titans has always kind of been like this. The reasons they get together are often not meant to be sustainable that is why there are so many Titans lineups.

----------


## dietrich

> I think Damian have a characteristic of mirror the other person personality. (It's a little sociopathy characteristic).
> Dick is Dick no matter who he is close, but Damian is a different person with Jon, Batman, Grayson, the old TT, the new TT (where he is too much more agressive.)
> I don't think TT have beeing well writing. I think it's make sense at some point, and after this, it is a disaster.
> I also think this rebel posture is he screaming for attention again, just like Jason, they can be sweet having more attention, but they lost control of how deal with rejection and how prove themselves, and in some point everything explode and the circle re-start worst.
> *plus
> But why Damian ate meat? Why??? Looks like the new writer didn't read the last work. (Ah!)


Aside from Damian being closed naturally guarded and socially distant. Most people are different with different people depending on the type of relationship and how close or comfortable they are with the person.

Damian's relationship with Dick is different from his relationship with Jon and Bruce.
Dick is his brother, surrogate father, teacher and closet friend
Bruce is his parent
Jon is his pal and peer

Some it makes sense that he behaves differently when he's with each.
I act different when I'm hanging with my closets friends who know me flaws and all. The ones who have seen the worst of me, don't judge me and I know will catch me when I fall.
I'm different with my parents and I'm different with pals that don't know me intimately.

So it's natural. We are all like that. I'm also different with the people I work with which is essentially what the TT are for Damian.

----------


## shadow6743

> Aside from Damian being closed naturally guarded and socially distant. Most people are different with different people depending on the type of relationship and how close or comfortable they are with the person.
> 
> Damian's relationship with Dick is different from his relationship with Jon and Bruce.
> Dick is his brother, surrogate father, teacher and closet friend
> Bruce is his parent
> Jon is his pal and peer
> 
> Some it makes sense that he behaves differently when he's with each.
> I act different when I'm hanging with my closets friends who know me flaws and all. The ones who have seen the worst of me, don't judge me and I know will catch me when I fall.
> ...


I heard people describe Harley Quinn as a social chameleon and I think of Damian personality the same way. Like when he with Jon he is more fun. When he is with Djinn he is gentle and more in touch with his feelings. When he is with Dick he is more of a team player. When he is with Emiko he is all business and more no nonsense. Same with Bruce.

----------


## dietrich

> The orginal Teen Titans didn't form under adult supervision either. Pre Crisis Dick formed the team to literally take on cases that the JL or JLA wouldn't do since they effected kids. The adults literally didn't want their sidekicks teaming up and fighting crime without them. If you read Teen Titans year one none of the adults take the kids view of crime fighting and their issues seriously causing Dick to form the first generation of Titans.
> 
> Also we forget if you read New Teen Titans they only become a team because Raven gathered them to fight her dad. She also uses some magic to team members like Wally and Dick to nearly fall in love with her and get them to stay on the team. Teen Titans has always kind of been like this. The reasons they get together are often not meant to be sustainable that is why there are so many Titans lineups.


I know how Dick Wally and co came about but the important and big difference is their objective.
Same with NTT. Their objective wasn't the adults are doing it wrong so lets do it our way.

They weren't anti heroes. Raven might have used magic on her team mates but she didn't use it on bad guys in a questionable manner.
Damian set up a jail and they are mind wiping bad guys [how did that come about by the way?]
That put's them at best in the anti hero bracket. All of them.

That's not what the TT are about.

There's also the fact that regardless of how the original TT came about there is now a precedent. An unwritten code for how they should act and what they should be about. They should be heroes not anti heroes.

----------


## dietrich

> I heard people describe Harley Quinn as a social chameleon and I think of Damian personality the same way. Like when he with Jon he is more fun. When he is with Djinn he is gentle and more in touch with his feelings. When he is with Dick he is more of a team player. When he is with Emiko he is all business and more no nonsense. Same with Bruce.


This is going to sound bad but when he's with Djinn I'm reminded of when he's with his pets. I guess Gentle is the right word.
I don't feel he's more in touch with his feelings since he doesn't share any of himself with her.

He hasn't even shared why he's doing what he's doing with her or opened up. Emiko he seems more open with since she was privy to his real plans and actions.

----------


## shadow6743

> I know how Dick Wally and co came about but the important and big difference is their objective.
> Same with NTT. Their objective wasn't the adults are doing it wrong so lets do it our way.
> 
> They weren't anti heroes. Raven might have used magic on her team mates but she didn't use it on bad guys in a questionable manner.
> Damian set up a jail and they are mind wiping bad guys [how did that come about by the way?]
> That put's them at best in the anti hero bracket. All of them.
> 
> That's not what the TT are about.
> 
> There's also the fact that regardless of how the original TT came about there is now a precedent. An unwritten code for how they should act and what they should be about. They should be heroes not anti heroes.


I won't say I like everything about the anti hero angle the book is doing. But, if you don't have that what separates it from any other Teen Titans run? Percy did the same Teen Titans run like all the others. But, nothing of note happens in it. I don't hate it but what happens? 


It literally I felt like Percy tried to make the book so wholly unoffensive that it's kind of boring. Damian, Aqualad, and Beast Boy are the only three characters with storylines. But even then the book totally focuses on Damian to a absurd amount to the point that Starfire is team leader but they're still taking orders from Damian. I feel like these two Teen Titans runs are showing two extremes. Both could be better and feel like there is no middle ground in either run.

Either a book that is so holy unoffensive that nothing happens or a book that takes a risk but is viewed as going to far beyond the orginal concept.

----------


## shadow6743

> This is going to sound bad but when he's with Djinn I'm reminded of when he's with his pets. I guess Gentle is the right word.
> I don't feel he's more in touch with his feelings since he doesn't share any of himself with her.
> 
> He hasn't even shared why he's doing what he's doing with her or opened up. Emiko he seems more open with since she was privy to his real plans and actions.


I get what your saying it's not surprising you would get that feeling. Damian to me kind of views Djinn as fragile if that's the correct word. Like he took her in a similar way that he takes in one of his pets and the way she shows him affection kind of reminds me of a cat for some reason. She literally said he found her and gave her a home so it's not strange. It doesn't diminish either character I just think its interesting.

----------


## Light of Justice

> When did Seeley and Gleason regress him?
> 
> Tomasi's batman and Robin was outstanding and he handles Damian very well but he did regress Damian not just in Supersons but also in Batman and Robin. For the person who gave us Damian's 1st pet he also wrote Damian killing a bat and ignored the vegetarian thing.
> 
> I choose to believe that was a veggie burger and a veggie dog that he was eating in those books.


I love Seeley's work on Damian in Nightwing, especially Nightwing Must Die arc, but to me Damian is too.... damsel in distress. Also it's weird that he wanted to kill Dollotron Robin when he cares so much about Sasha who partially became Dollotron and antagonized him as Red Hood's sidekick. Damian repeatedly shows his sympathy to child victim, for example on Street of Gotham and Tec 1017. Dollotron Robin is by all means is only child victim of Professor Pyg, so I think it's weird that Damian antagonized him. I can't blame him though, he's Nightwing writer and his job is to show Nightwing's greatness as hero and he chose to use Damian as his support character to support his agenda, but my point is he regress Damian for the sake of plot albeit only a little and not as bad as Percy or Glass. He also shows Damian's child and compassionate side, so for me he's still a good Damian writer
About Gleason, sorry when I wrote that post I was under impression that he also wrote Supersons together with Tomasi. I just realized that he only co writer of Supersons in Superman's book when they first met and bootcamp arc, not Supersons's book. His run on RSOB is brilliant and it undoubtly the best book of Damian.

----------


## shadow6743

I just read the newest issue of Teen Titans and I really liked it. I think its going to end the anti hero angle of the team and cause a serious change to the tone of the book. I really can't wait to see what comes next with Thompson. I didn't expect the ending and now it makes perfect sense why Bruce is coming in.

I am actually really excited I think the shift people wanted with the Titans not being anti heroes is coming. So excited 

 :Big Grin:

----------


## Astralabius

> Yes i was talking about the Nightwing Annual when Dick wakes up. I assumed that annual was the catalyst for Damian seeking out KGBeast since he asked Bruce whether he he killed him and Bruce said no.
> 
> Later on Dick rejects them and doesn't remember him.
> That would be his lowest point
> 
> It makes sense that Dick forgetting him would cause Damian to lose it and want revenge.
> 
> Both writers of RIP didn't do a good job. That title was full of mistakes. It was the 10th anniversary of Bruce's parents death yet Bruce was mourning Damian in one of the stories we saw. It's just a mess.
> 
> ...


I don't think Damian going after KGBeast is happening because of the second Annual, that must have happened ages ago.

Yes, that's exactly our point, Damian as Luke's Robin wouldn't work so they would have needed to remove him.
If the rumors about a timeskip in the DC universe for 5G would have been correct it wouldn't have been unreasonable to have Damian fired from the role, then do a timeskip and see where he ended up a few years older in a new role in 5G.

----------


## Astralabius

> The thing with this team is that they don't feel like a team and this whole run has a really mean spirited vibe to it.
> They don't give off the TT's vibe. They are outlaws. Formed without the knowledge of any responsible adults with the objective to do what the JL won't.
> 
> They are renegades. Anti-heroes and that's not what TT is about. They came together for the wrong reasons and that reason isn't sustainable.
> I don't know what the future holds but one thing is clear, the days of titles flying under the radar is over.


On that we agree 100%.
This team isn't build on friendship and even if Thompson tries to turn them around now I doubt a lot of people are going to have fond memories of the relationships in this book.
Can't talk for fans of the other characters, but the majority of Damian fans seem to have a lot stronger emotional attachments to characters like Jon, Maya or even Suren as Damian's friends. If someone wants some comforting reading material they're going to grab Robin: Son of Batman or Super Sons, not Teen Titans.

A team of teenagers build on rebelling against the Justice League not wanting to go "lower than the criminals" never had that much hope anyway. Like how is it going to end? Either one of the big heroes is going to put a stop to it or they accept the way of the Justice League. Two options that kept me from enjoying just the idea of this book. The execution did the rest.

----------


## dietrich

> I just read the newest issue of Teen Titans and I really liked it. I think its going to end the anti hero angle of the team and cause a serious change to the tone of the book. I really can't wait to see what comes next with Thompson. I didn't expect the ending and now it makes perfect sense why Bruce is coming in.
> 
> I am actually really excited I think the shift people wanted with the Titans not being anti heroes is coming. So excited


I forgot today was Wed  :EEK!:  

Now you've got me looking forward to reading it.

----------


## dietrich

> On that we agree 100%.
> This team isn't build on friendship and even if Thompson tries to turn them around now I doubt a lot of people are going to have fond memories of the relationships in this book.
> Can't talk for fans of the other characters, but the majority of Damian fans seem to have a lot stronger emotional attachments to characters like Jon, Maya or even Suren as Damian's friends. If someone wants some comforting reading material they're going to grab Robin: Son of Batman or Super Sons, not Teen Titans.
> 
> A team of teenagers build on rebelling against the Justice League not wanting to go "lower than the criminals" never had that much hope anyway. Like how is it going to end? Either one of the big heroes is going to put a stop to it or they accept the way of the Justice League. Two options that kept me from enjoying just the idea of this book. The execution did the rest.


I just need to find out what Damian's motivation is. It's doing my head in not knowing what's going on in his head. What he's feeling.

This title has had a lot of pages where emotions [mostly anger] are flying but they rarely go past the surface.

I have so many questions.
I can't wait for the Batman issue just so I know this is all out in the open and done.

----------


## Digifiend

> I know this run would never reach 100 issues. Geoff John's only got his Titans run to reach 50 issues and that run is one of the most well liked.


That series did reach 100 issues (just barely - issue 100 was the last issue before the New 52 reboot) but as you say, Johns did leave halfway through. This run of TT is now on it's third writer, but it's still the same run under Thompson that it was under Percy and Glass.




> I forgot today was Wed  
> 
> Now you've got me looking forward to reading it.


That's because it's Tuesday, lol! DC Comics come out on Tuesdays now.

----------


## shadow6743

> I just need to find out what Damian's motivation is. It's doing my head in not knowing what's going on in his head. What he's feeling.
> 
> This title has had a lot of pages where emotions [mostly anger] are flying but they rarely go past the surface.
> 
> I have so many questions.
> I can't wait for the Batman issue just so I know this is all out in the open and done.


Your going to get your answers soon because that is the only direction that Thompson is interested in going based on what happened in this newest issue. Its either Damian and the team choose a better path or go at it alone for Damian by the end of this issue. Which is really the only way I see this arc ending with  Bruce and Damian finally talking.

----------


## Light of Justice

Some questions about today TT issue

*spoilers:*
 wait, did I miss something? Djinn sounds like Damian forcefully used Djinn to brainwash villains? He didn't even hold her ring, or anything, Djinn brainwashed those villain at her own consciousness, even she ignored Damian after she finished her brainwashing? And I thought Kid Flash agreed with brainwashing method, he said because those villains looks happy? 
And I thought Crush and Roundhouse know about brainwashing agenda but they didn't complain? Why did it looks like Damian did something terrible without his team's approval, so they choose to leave him? I mean, that exact plot is already used when Damian's secret prison was revealed? 

Okay DC, you don't want Damian to have friends, even he's excluded from group hug. I get it. I GET IT. 
I think DC has motto that says "We hereby decree that mortals who have Wayne's blood in them must be leaved on loneliness so we can write them brooding for like 1357 times."
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Light of Justice

On the other hand, my starvation of Goliath is satisfied, thank you Batman Beyond.

*spoilers:*
that Zeh-Ro guy looks ridiculous on Demon Head costume. Proof that the costume reserved for Al-Ghul only. 
Also bare-chested Adult Damian?  :EEK!:  
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Blue22

I'm so torn. I both liked this conclusion and hated it. It was doing pretty good up until the end when we randomly switch back to "Damian's the bad guy"

As for Djinn *spoilers:*
I'm happy she's not dead but I'm really not happy that she's leaving. She was one of the only things that made this run bearable. Now who do I have to appreciate while Damian is still being unnecessarily dragged through the mud, and while Roundhouse insists on breathing?
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Astralabius

Welp, already don't feel like reading this.

----------


## shadow6743

> Some questions about today TT issue
> 
> *spoilers:*
>  wait, did I miss something? Djinn sounds like Damian forcefully used Djinn to brainwash villains? He didn't even hold her ring, or anything, Djinn brainwashed those villain at her own consciousness, even she ignored Damian after she finished her brainwashing? And I thought Kid Flash agreed with brainwashing method, he said because those villains looks happy? 
> And I thought Crush and Roundhouse know about brainwashing agenda but they didn't complain? Why did it looks like Damian did something terrible without his team's approval, so they choose to leave him? I mean, that exact plot is already used when Damian's secret prison was revealed? 
> 
> Okay DC, you don't want Damian to have friends, even he's excluded from group hug. I get it. I GET IT. 
> I think DC has motto that says "We hereby decree that mortals who have Wayne's blood in them must be leaved on loneliness so we can write them brooding for like 1357 times."
> *end of spoilers*


 
Djinn says that she has love for all her teammates including Damian. Damian excluded himself from the group hug after seeing that the rest of the team weren't agreeing to follow his methods and push them further. Also while previous issues revealed the brain washings and the prison the team never got to fully address it due to events with Lobo, Roundhouse and saving Djinn. Now that the brainwashing is undone and the team is not agreeing with Damian going further Damian's reasoning has to be addressed. Damian and the team are probably going to be dealing with the fallout leading to Mercy Tower being destroyed and Damian having to address his relationship with his father.

It's not about Damian not having friends it's just that they no longer agree with his view of justice. If they didn't care they wouldn't be searching for him in the upcoming issues.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Djinn says that she has love for all her teammates including Damian. Damian excluded himself from the group hug after seeing that the rest of the team weren't agreeing to follow his methods and push them further. Also while previous issues revealed the brain washings and the prison the team never got to fully address it due to events with Lobo, Roundhouse and saving Djinn. Now that the brainwashing is undone and the team is not agreeing with Damian going further Damian's reasoning has to be addressed. Damian and the team are probably going to be dealing with the fallout leading to Mercy Tower being destroyed and Damian having to address his relationship with his father.
> 
> It's not about Damian not having friends it's just that they no longer agree with his view of justice. If they didn't care they wouldn't be searching for him in the upcoming issues.


*spoilers:*
I think the main problem of this TT run is so many things happened on little time so when we face one problem, before we can fully process it they jump into problem two and problem three, then after that when they try to go back discussing problem number 1 reader, or perhaps it just me, just thought that it was long overdue, especially the plot when the team disagree with him and leave him is already used on secret prison conclusion.  
I don't like the way Djinn put her word, she said that she's finally free, and her days of forcing other people to do something they didn't want to is over. Sounds like it purely because of Damian she brainwashed those villain. I mean, how did Damian know that she has power to brainwash unless she told him?

I like when she said she love them all, just because finally the silly love triangle plot is over. 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## shadow6743

> *spoilers:*
> I think the main problem of this TT run is so many things happened on little time so when we face one problem, before we can fully process it they jump into problem two and problem three, then after that when they try to go back discussing problem number 1 reader, or perhaps it just me, just thought that it was long overdue, especially the plot when the team disagree with him and leave him is already used on secret prison conclusion.  
> I don't like the way Djinn put her word, she said that she's finally free, and her days of forcing other people to do something they didn't want to is over. Sounds like it purely because of Damian she brainwashed those villain. I mean, how did Damian know that she has power to brainwash unless she told him?
> 
> I like when she said she love them all, just because finally the silly love triangle plot is over. 
> *end of spoilers*


I don't think Glass' run is bad overall. But the pacing is often all over the place. I don't think he should have taken this long to end the prison arc. Also, I think the writing for Djinn could have been better. She clearly cares for all of her teammates especially Damian and Crush. I don't view it as Djinn being mad at Damian but more at herself for going against her own mortals. She had a moment of anger and leaves hoping that her friends will make choices that they can live with. When she does eventually come back I hope that they finally give her a name.

----------


## Blue22

Yeah it's a little weird, referring to her by her species name like she's a pokemon. Especially when this arc introduced other djinns who do have names. At the very least, she could have been called "Sila". Still a little too on the nose, but better.

----------


## shadow6743

> Yeah it's a little weird, referring to her by her species name like she's a pokemon. Especially when this arc introduced other djinns who do have names. At the very least, she could have been called "Sila". Still a little too on the nose, but better.


I like the name Sophia it's a Turkish name and I think it would suit Djinn.

----------


## Jackalope89

All that build up for...that.

*spoilers:*
They go through Hell, then Heaven, Elias does a number on Gabriel the Archangel, the other angels seem powerless, but a group (not a team, a group) of angsty teens somehow get the drop on him. And... it ends. That was one of most abrupt endings to an arc I've seen. And Glass keeps digging that one hole of Damian's. At least Batman Beyond looks promising for Damian.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Grandmaster_J

> *spoilers:*
> I think the main problem of this TT run is so many things happened on little time so when we face one problem, before we can fully process it they jump into problem two and problem three, then after that when they try to go back discussing problem number 1 reader, or perhaps it just me, just thought that it was long overdue, especially the plot when the team disagree with him and leave him is already used on secret prison conclusion.  
> I don't like the way Djinn put her word, she said that she's finally free, and her days of forcing other people to do something they didn't want to is over. Sounds like it purely because of Damian she brainwashed those villain. I mean, how did Damian know that she has power to brainwash unless she told him?
> 
> I like when she said she love them all, just because finally the silly love triangle plot is over. 
> *end of spoilers*


It got glossed over but I said this a few pages ago the biggest issue the entire run was the prison and love triangle were the main consistent plot points this run. Other things had a tendency to be forgotten, resolved rather quickly, not expanded upon further, or give little explanation... 

We finally address the brainwashing thing only for Djinn to say her power over them is gone, and it'll probably be forgotten now that Glass is done. 

I'm not disapointed to see Djinn leave as it was obvious who "won't be making it back" but now that she is gone she can be less of a damsel to saved and distraction.

----------


## Digifiend

I noticed something...
*spoilers:*
Djinn and Jakeem left together. I wonder if Djinn will end up running with the Justice Society, Jakeem Thunder's usual team?
*end of spoilers*

Also, do we think anyone new will join up? *spoilers:*
If nobody does, it doesn't bode well for the future of the book. With Djinn gone, they're shorthanded.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Jackalope89

> I noticed something...
> *spoilers:*
> Djinn and Jakeem left together. I wonder if Djinn will end up running with the Justice Society, Jakeem Thunder's usual team?
> *end of spoilers*
> 
> *Also, do we think anyone new will join up?* *spoilers:*
> If nobody does, it doesn't bode well for the future of the book. With Djinn gone, they're shorthanded.
> *end of spoilers*


Honestly, on an individual level, I liked these characters, but I would be so much happier with a TT team of Damian, Jon (as a kid), Maya, Kathy, and the West Twins at the very least. Some of the roster from this last run would be good fits, like Emiko as well.

----------


## Digifiend

So Robin, Superboy, Nobody, Beacon, Impulse II, Turtle (Doomsday Clock hinted that's what Jai would become) and Red Arrow?

----------


## Blue22

*spoilers:*
Honestly, I was expecting Jakeem to join. That would have been pretty cool. Too bad it ended up not being the case. As for what comes next for this run...I wouldn't mind if we're nearing the end. I don't hate it like I did at the start but I'm about ready for it to wind down. There's not really anything else I want from this team. They worked hard to make me no longer wish death on most of them. But I don't really have an interest in where they're going from here.
*end of spoilers*




> Honestly, on an individual level, I liked these characters, but I would be so much happier with a TT team of Damian, Jon (as a kid), Maya, Kathy, and the West Twins at the very least. Some of the roster from this last run would be good fits, like Emiko as well.


Anything with kid Jon (because, as Damian proved before Flashpoint and Djinn proved in this run, you don't have to be a teen to be a Teen Titan) and Maya already gets my approval. Anything else would be extra but you already know I'm a heavy advocate for Colin's return lol

----------


## Katana500

> *spoilers:*
> Honestly, I was expecting Jakeem to join. That would have been pretty cool. Too bad it ended up not being the case. As for what comes next for this run...I wouldn't mind if we're nearing the end. I don't hate it like I did at the start but I'm about ready for it to wind down. There's not really anything else I want from this team. They worked hard to make me no longer wish death on most of them. But I don't really have an interest in where they're going from here.
> *end of spoilers*
> 
> 
> 
> Anything with kid Jon (because, as Damian proved before Flashpoint and Djinn proved in this run, you don't have to be a teen to be a Teen Titan) and Maya already gets my approval. Anything else would be extra but you already know I'm a heavy advocate for Colin's return lol


I have a feeling the current run will rap up fairly soon. Kinda feels if we are heading towards a relaunch. Especially on certain main books like the Flash and Batman. 

Teen Titans is unlikely to end for long. I reckon a fresh team will take over by early next year at the latest.

----------


## shadow6743

> I have a feeling the current run will rap up fairly soon. Kinda feels if we are heading towards a relaunch. Especially on certain main books like the Flash and Batman. 
> 
> Teen Titans is unlikely to end for long. I reckon a fresh team will take over by early next year at the latest.


If we are reforming a new Teen Titans team I would keep everyone except Roundhouse. He can go jump in a volcano. Add Jon and Maya and maybe Boyzarro and you got yourself an interesting team.

----------


## Blue22

I think Jon's a lost cause at this point. As long as Bendis is around, the poor kid is still the legion's hostage and on the fast train to becoming a boring clone of his father. Maya has a chance, provided anyone other than Tomasi remembers and cares about her. As for the bizarro boys, I'm not the biggest fans of theirs and I doubt Robzarro and Damian would be on a team together. So if we get Maya and Kathy, I wouldn't be shocked if the bizarros are somehow taken out of the equation.

----------


## Rac7d*

> I think Jon's a lost cause at this point. As long as Bendis is around, the poor kid is still the legion's hostage and on the fast train to becoming a boring clone of his father. Maya has a chance, provided anyone other than Tomasi remembers and cares about her. As for the bizarro boys, I'm not the biggest fans of theirs and I doubt Robzarro and Damian would be on a team together. So if we get Maya and Kathy, I wouldn't be shocked if the bizarros are somehow taken out of the equation.


jon not a lost cause, esp with his cw show coming
kathy is gone tho

----------


## Grandmaster_J

> If we are reforming a new Teen Titans team I would keep everyone except Roundhouse. He can go jump in a volcano. Add Jon and Maya and maybe Boyzarro and you got yourself an interesting team.


Considering he survived a nuke, pretty sure he can survive a volcano lol

Jumping in front of full blown punch by Superman might be more effective.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Yes i was talking about the Nightwing Annual when Dick wakes up. I assumed that annual was the catalyst for Damian seeking out KGBeast since he asked Bruce whether he he killed him and Bruce said no.
> 
> Later on Dick rejects them and doesn't remember him.
> That would be his lowest point
> 
> It makes sense that Dick forgetting him would cause Damian to lose it and want revenge.
> 
> Both writers of RIP didn't do a good job. That title was full of mistakes. It was the 10th anniversary of Bruce's parents death yet Bruce was mourning Damian in one of the stories we saw. It's just a mess.
> 
> ...


"Later on Dick rejects them and doesn't remember him.
That would be his lowest point"

What should I read for understand Dick lost memory and this problem with Damian? I usually just read TT and comics related.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> If we are reforming a new Teen Titans team I would keep everyone except Roundhouse. He can go jump in a volcano. Add Jon and Maya and maybe Boyzarro and you got yourself an interesting team.


I think RoundHouse have many great features, but he just became "the fat guy that try to be funny and make a lot of mistakes" I liked his chinese family, he goes to a psychologist, he and kid flash have this true friendship (I love when characters hug each other), but he appearance, speaks and powers have 0 charisma :/

So many peoples here keep saying about a TT with Damian, Jon and Maya! I feel excited just for think it would happen. But I think will not.

----------


## Astralabius

Well that conclusion was trash.

----------


## Blue22

Elias' defeat did seem a little...I don't wanna say unearned but...a little too easy. It was nice seeing the whole team feel like a team for once. But the whole thing was kinda anticlimactic, all things conisdered. Combine that with the very abrupt segue into the next arc and I just don't know how to feel. Like I said before, I didn't hate this. It just...could have been better. Losing the best character in this run doesn't help matters either.

----------


## shadow6743

I was thinking about the Djinn, Roundhouse and Crush and I realized that Glass' made Roundhouse less likely to be used in the future in comparison to Djinn and Crush. Djinn as a connection to the JSA through her relationship with Hakeem Thunder. Crush is Lobo's daughter both of these connections to the wider DC Universe can enable these characters to have a more likely chance of sticking around. Also there are a wider array of stories that can exist for these two characters.

Roundhouse literally has nothing that connects him to the DC Universe.

I am putting this idea out into the universe and hope something like this happens. I would love to see Djinn join the JSA. Give the book to Johns' he written both JSA and Teen Titans books. Have Djinn become best friends with Stargirl and have her establish herself and get a name then have her return to the Teen Titans maybe.

That is all I want. I also wouldn't mind her becoming friends with Mary Marvel and the Marvel Family she would fit right in.

----------


## Light of Justice

> "Later on Dick rejects them and doesn't remember him.
> That would be his lowest point"
> 
> What should I read for understand Dick lost memory and this problem with Damian? I usually just read TT and comics related.


Nightwing got a bullet on his head on Batman #55, then on Nightwing #50 it shows that Dick lost his memories because of it. On Nightwing annual #2, Damian tried to wake Dick up, and then he cried when he failed (even though actually Dick woke up a little bit). On that annual, Nightwing rejected Bat-family, under influence of Court of Owl. Our favorite emotionally constipated father and son thought that to bring dick's memories back and make him remember them as his family, they should show a clip when Dick get shot on the head. Boys, Waynes, shock therapy is not first-aid treatment. As expected, Dick's response of that clip is nothing but hostile.

----------


## Light of Justice

> If we are reforming a new Teen Titans team I would keep everyone except Roundhouse. He can go jump in a volcano. Add Jon and Maya and maybe Boyzarro and you got yourself an interesting team.


In my honest opinion, at this point give Damian a new team, old members or new members, is a bad idea. Because that means they should do team building from the beginning, with some add of conflict, and honestly I kinda fed up of that. Especially when those buildings are getting ruined for the sake of plot, and high possibility Damian will be the cause of that. And I noticed that whenever they tried to put Damian on team, it ends with he's excluded from the team and/or the team ganged up against him. I know that he's divisive and has zero social skill, that's part of his charm, but this is getting ridiculous. 

Perhaps he just isn't ready for team dynamic. I noticed that he works best on duo, like Dick and Damian, Bruce and Damian, Supergirl and Damian, Steph and Damian, Colin and Damian, Huntress and Damian, Maya and Damian, and of course Jon and Damian. Hell, even Slade and Damian is better than his team.

----------


## shadow6743

> In my honest opinion, at this point give Damian a new team, old members or new members, is a bad idea. Because that means they should do team building from the beginning, with some add of conflict, and honestly I kinda fed up of that. Especially when those buildings are getting ruined for the sake of plot, and high possibility Damian will be the cause of that. And I noticed that whenever they tried to put Damian on team, it ends with he's excluded from the team and/or the team ganged up against him. I know that he's divisive and has zero social skill, that's part of his charm, but this is getting ridiculous. 
> 
> Perhaps he just isn't ready for team dynamic. I noticed that he works best on duo, like Dick and Damian, Bruce and Damian, Supergirl and Damian, Steph and Damian, Colin and Damian, Huntress and Damian, Maya and Damian, and of course Jon and Damian. Hell, even Slade and Damian is better than his team.


I really don't think they will create a new Teen Titans team after this one. I can't think of any teen heroes in Damian's generation they could add besides the ones I mentioned earlier. Also to have a Teen Titans book without a Robin would be a risk that I don't see DC is willing to take. I don't think it matters what characters are used but how the writers choose to use them when developing their stories. Damian can be part of a team it just needs to be a balance. You need to maintain his character without going the easy route of making him not a team player. A character has to exhibit growth at some point if they are going to be shown making mistakes. If you don't show growth the character's story feels inadequate.

----------


## Korath

I... really liked the ending of the issue. 

I know I'm in a very small minority, but at this point, I think it's best for Damian to distance himself completely from Batman (relinquishing the Robin mantle) and becoming his own thing, be it anti-hero or even anti-villain. I'd take a Priest solo of Damian like his Deathstroke over Damian remaining a part of the Batfamily or being paired with Jon or Kathy (urh, seriously, those sucks and make him a pathetic wimp in the process).

----------


## bluelolly

I still don't know how I feel about Glass' new characters. Are they....popular?

----------


## Astralabius

> Nightwing got a bullet on his head on Batman #55, then on Nightwing #50 it shows that Dick lost his memories because of it. On Nightwing annual #2, Damian tried to wake Dick up, and then he cried when he failed (even though actually Dick woke up a little bit). On that annual, Nightwing rejected Bat-family, under influence of Court of Owl. Our favorite emotionally constipated father and son thought that to bring dick's memories back and make him remember them as his family, they should show a clip when Dick get shot on the head. Boys, Waynes, shock therapy is not first-aid treatment. As expected, Dick's response of that clip is nothing but hostile.


To be fair to Damian, he did say that he thought Bruce's idea to jog Ric's memories was bad.

----------


## shadow6743

> I still don't know how I feel about Glass' new characters. Are they....popular?


I have seen positive things about Djinn and Crush the two female characters. Roundhouse on the other hand I have either seen nothing about or negative feedback about. He really doesn't add much to the plot of the book.

I don't know if they are popular or not. I have seen people really liking Djinn and Crush's designs and their storylines but Roundhouse I don't really see much about him online so I mostly view people has being more indifferent about his character.

----------


## Grandmaster_J

> I still don't know how I feel about Glass' new characters. Are they....popular?


Not at all... they're still new. 

I only really liked Roundhouse out of the three, though you read this thread it's the exact opposite among the majority.

----------


## Astralabius

> Elias' defeat did seem a little...I don't wanna say unearned but...a little too easy. It was nice seeing the whole team feel like a team for once. But the whole thing was kinda anticlimactic, all things conisdered. Combine that with the very abrupt segue into the next arc and I just don't know how to feel. Like I said before, I didn't hate this. It just...could have been better. Losing the best character in this run doesn't help matters either.


The whole thing was anticlimatic and I was already feeling underwhelmed by The Other. Glass is building up to these big reveals and confrontations and then they aren't doing a lot for me when they happen.
The team feeling like a team for once was ruined for me by the ending. I don't recall Damian forcing her to brainwash people so honestly, if she pulls things like that I'm glad Djinn's gone.
The way the team all make themselves sound like they were only victims of Damian as if we didn't see them go along with his plans is annoying and Damian suddenly implying they should kill criminals comes out of nowhere.

----------


## Jackalope89

> In my honest opinion, at this point give Damian a new team, old members or new members, is a bad idea. Because that means they should do team building from the beginning, with some add of conflict, and honestly I kinda fed up of that. Especially when those buildings are getting ruined for the sake of plot, and high possibility Damian will be the cause of that. And I noticed that whenever they tried to put Damian on team, it ends with he's excluded from the team and/or the team ganged up against him. I know that he's divisive and has zero social skill, that's part of his charm, but this is getting ridiculous. 
> 
> Perhaps he just isn't ready for team dynamic. I noticed that he works best on duo, like Dick and Damian, Bruce and Damian, Supergirl and Damian, Steph and Damian, Colin and Damian, Huntress and Damian, Maya and Damian, and of course Jon and Damian. Hell, even Slade and Damian is better than his team.


Some of those characters are why I proposed Jon, Maya, Kathy, and (how could I forget?) Colin. Characters that know Damian can be difficult at times, and sometimes needs to be steered back on course, but know he has good intentions.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I... really liked the ending of the issue. 
> 
> I know I'm in a very small minority, but at this point, I think it's best for Damian to distance himself completely from Batman (relinquishing the Robin mantle) and becoming his own thing, be it anti-hero or even anti-villain. I'd take a Priest solo of Damian like his Deathstroke over Damian remaining a part of the Batfamily or being paired with Jon or Kathy (urh, seriously, those sucks and make him a pathetic wimp in the process).


Hello fellow minorities! Him distancing from Batman and make his own anti-hero name is my jam. I even have headcanon on my head, with my own design of his costume, his logo, his operation, et cetera.

But my main problem of this issue is why, why they made it as if Damian is the one who purely completely at fault on brainwashing method? Djinn brainwash them with her own consciousness, Kid Flash agree with that method because the villains look happy, Emiko is as passive as ever, Crush never said anything about that before but as usual she agrees with Djinn, and Roundhouse.... I agree with Kid Flash that he's like fungus, I need my Miconazole.

----------


## Astralabius

If Damian as an anti-hero or anti-villain is about as well-written as the path to it Glass did in this run then I don't even want to touch this idea with a stick.

----------


## Light of Justice

> If Damian as an anti-hero or anti-villain is about as well-written as the path to it Glass did in this run then I don't even want to touch this idea with a stick.


Oh no. Not Glass. Definitely not Glass. I think we have enough Glass for eternity. Maybe writers like Jurgens who created Demon's Head Damian, I really love his design and his characterization.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I have seen positive things about Djinn and Crush the two female characters. Roundhouse on the other hand I have either seen nothing about or negative feedback about. He really doesn't add much to the plot of the book.
> 
> I don't know if they are popular or not. I have seen people really liking Djinn and Crush's designs and their storylines but Roundhouse I don't really see much about him online so I mostly view people has being more indifferent about his character.


I have big hopes for Roundhouse when he betrayed Damian and the team but then Glass made him back to be silly fat clown of the team. Wait, not clown, clown has different meaning on DC universe. I also mostly indifferent about him, and perhaps he's on number two of my least favorite character on TT team (number one on my list is Djinn).

----------


## Light of Justice

> To be fair to Damian, he did say that he thought Bruce's idea to jog Ric's memories was bad.


Oh yeah I forgot about that

----------


## shadow6743

I was thinking about how I would grade Glass' run on Teen Titans. If I would probably give Glass' a B-. I think he had a lot of interesting ideas that weren't excuted the best. The new characters he created especially Djinn and Crush for me were fun and added some variations in storytelling. However, I don't think he used that potential to it's full extent. The conclusion to Djinn War was what I was hoping for but it felt rushed and incomplete. But overall when thinking back about Glass' run on Teen Titans overall I enjoyed the vast majority of what I read it kept me on the edge of my seat and left me wanting to see more of this team. I don't think Glass' handles Damian's character in the best way during his run which is why I added the minus in stead of a B. But, I didn't hate the run and certainly don't think Glass isn't a talented writer. He took a risk with his run that I don't think many writers would have done especially when establishing new characters and a new team. I respect him for being a risk taker in his writing. Often comics became stale because writers and publishers aren't willing to do anything new. While his conclusion and his writing of Damian weren't the choices I would have made I enjoyed Adam Glass run on Teen Titans. I wish him the best in whatever project he starts next.
Now I am looking forward to what Thompson will do with his run.

----------


## brandnewfan

Is Damian showing up in any Batbooks? Or is he just in Teen Titans?

----------


## Blue22

He'll likely be showing up in Joker War. Aside from that his appearances in Bat books have been pretty sporadic. As far as I can tell, he and Bruce still aren't in a good place.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Is Damian showing up in any Batbooks? Or is he just in Teen Titans?


Batman Beyond
Batman
Detective comics
And occasionally Nightwing

----------


## Rebeca Armus

https://mythbank.com/damian-wayne-reading-order/

Enjoy  :Wink:

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Nightwing got a bullet on his head on Batman #55, then on Nightwing #50 it shows that Dick lost his memories because of it. On Nightwing annual #2, Damian tried to wake Dick up, and then he cried when he failed (even though actually Dick woke up a little bit). On that annual, Nightwing rejected Bat-family, under influence of Court of Owl. Our favorite emotionally constipated father and son thought that to bring dick's memories back and make him remember them as his family, they should show a clip when Dick get shot on the head. Boys, Waynes, shock therapy is not first-aid treatment. As expected, Dick's response of that clip is nothing but hostile.


Thanks! I just read this.
One more question, after Damian x Jason fight, they had any other interaction? (Beside Alfred's funeral).

----------


## Jackalope89

> Thanks! I just read this.
> One more question, after Damian x Jason fight, they had any other interaction? (Beside Alfred's funeral).


Well, there was Even Leviathan, where Damian, once again, accused Jason of treachery without proof (the first signs of Bendis being unable to write Damian). And other than a quick fight?

Nope. Jason has been doing his own thing. Away from the others.

He took over the Iceberg Lounge from Penguin, then handed the keys over, no catch, to a former foe and her sisters so they could get out of the life of crime.
Took a "job" from Lex Luthor to "train the next gen of super villains," but really took a bunch of meta-teens (and one super smart baby) out from Lex's reach and gave them a place to stay. Not only allowing them to grow up, but be their own person of their own volition. 

During said teaching job, Jason reunited with Biz and Artemis, and now the Outlaws are overseas looking to stop an invasion of monsters that infect and takeover people's bodies. Meanwhile, the kids are under the supervision of Ma Gunn (whom is secretly Jason's grandmother and a former criminal herself). 

And honestly, I know Jason _would_ go to the funeral, but I _seriously_ doubt he would be half as calm around Bruce as he was. And Damian honestly burned whatever bridges there were with Jason. In other words; I don't see him sticking around with the other Bats afterwards. In truth, I wouldn't mind him doing what Dick did back in the 70s and 80s; be his own hero with his own team, _away_ from Bruce and the others.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Well, there was Even Leviathan, where Damian, once again, accused Jason of treachery without proof (the first signs of Bendis being unable to write Damian). And other than a quick fight?
> 
> Nope. Jason has been doing his own thing. Away from the others.
> 
> He took over the Iceberg Lounge from Penguin, then handed the keys over, no catch, to a former foe and her sisters so they could get out of the life of crime.
> Took a "job" from Lex Luthor to "train the next gen of super villains," but really took a bunch of meta-teens (and one super smart baby) out from Lex's reach and gave them a place to stay. Not only allowing them to grow up, but be their own person of their own volition. 
> 
> During said teaching job, Jason reunited with Biz and Artemis, and now the Outlaws are overseas looking to stop an invasion of monsters that infect and takeover people's bodies. Meanwhile, the kids are under the supervision of Ma Gunn (whom is secretly Jason's grandmother and a former criminal herself). 
> 
> And honestly, I know Jason _would_ go to the funeral, but I _seriously_ doubt he would be half as calm around Bruce as he was. And Damian honestly burned whatever bridges there were with Jason. In other words; I don't see him sticking around with the other Bats afterwards. In truth, I wouldn't mind him doing what Dick did back in the 70s and 80s; be his own hero with his own team, _away_ from Bruce and the others.


Jason then black not Damian if anything he wouldn be the one walk away

----------


## Fergus

> Well, there was Even Leviathan, where Damian, once again, accused Jason of treachery without proof (the first signs of Bendis being unable to write Damian). And other than a quick fight?
> 
> Nope. Jason has been doing his own thing. Away from the others.
> 
> He took over the Iceberg Lounge from Penguin, then handed the keys over, no catch, to a former foe and her sisters so they could get out of the life of crime.
> Took a "job" from Lex Luthor to "train the next gen of super villains," but really took a bunch of meta-teens (and one super smart baby) out from Lex's reach and gave them a place to stay. Not only allowing them to grow up, but be their own person of their own volition. 
> 
> During said teaching job, Jason reunited with Biz and Artemis, and now the Outlaws are overseas looking to stop an invasion of monsters that infect and takeover people's bodies. Meanwhile, the kids are under the supervision of Ma Gunn (whom is secretly Jason's grandmother and a former criminal herself). 
> 
> And honestly, I know Jason _would_ go to the funeral, but I _seriously_ doubt he would be half as calm around Bruce as he was. And Damian honestly burned whatever bridges there were with Jason. In other words; I don't see him sticking around with the other Bats afterwards. In truth, I wouldn't mind him doing what Dick did back in the 70s and 80s; be his own hero with his own team, _away_ from Bruce and the others.


Jason/Red Hood isn't Dick Grayson. He can't move titles even with the bat branding without it he is irrelevant in the DCU.

I'm surprised He turned up to Alfred's funeral considering he apparently knew of bane taking Alfred Hostage and the decree that Bat's were outlawed and he stayed hidden like a little bitch when Alfred needed help.

Jason had no place at that funeral and he's words to Damian revealed he knew the situation and he acted as a coward who negotiates terrorists. He also revealed his lack of care for Alfred since he didn't get in contact with any of the family to inquire about Alfred which is why he wasn't aware of the plan to send Damian in.

He shouldn't have been included in Alfred RIP. It didn't do him any favours.

Also lol at Damian burning any bridges with the Red Hood. That's a bridge that anyone can afford to burn. This isn't Dick Grayson we're talking about or even Tim. 

That bridge was never in use so it can afford to be burnt.

----------


## Fergus

> https://mythbank.com/damian-wayne-reading-order/
> 
> Enjoy


This is like 40% of Damian Wayne's reading list
Where's
Batman/TMNT
Nightwing Rebirth
Metal
Gotham Resistantance
Batman BeYond Rebirth
Batman Tales Once upon a Crime
DCeased
Superman
TT
Gotham Resistance
SnaggluePuss
Injustice
Injustice 2
Injustice2v Masters of the Universe
Calvaclade of Horror 2
Dc New talent Showcase 2
Nuclear winter
Dc Holiday special 1 and 2
Green arrow
Tec both Tomasi's and taylors
Lil'Gotham
Streets of Gotham
Gates of Gotham
The Shadow/Batman
and many more

This is why people go around saying that Damian is regressed because they don't read half the stuff with him. Apart from 3 titles everything I listed above was from Rebirth.

That how many titles he was in that aren't on that Amazon list.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Jason/Red Hood isn't Dick Grayson. He can't move titles even with the bat branding without it he is irrelevant in the DCU.
> 
> I'm surprised He turned up to Alfred's funeral considering he apparently knew of bane taking Alfred Hostage and the decree that Bat's were outlawed and he stayed hidden like a little bitch when Alfred needed help.
> 
> Jason had no place at that funeral and he's words to Damian revealed he knew the situation and he acted as a coward who negotiates terrorists. He also revealed his lack of care for Alfred since he didn't get in contact with any of the family to inquire about Alfred which is why he wasn't aware of the plan to send Damian in.
> 
> He shouldn't have been included in Alfred RIP. It didn't do him any favours.


I wasn't talking about "moving books". Merely a different direction, _away_ from people that have been pretty toxic for Jason lately.

And please. Jason was not written well in Alfred RIP. Going by events, Jason would have gone after Bruce for sending Damian in. What's more, why should Jason work with Bruce at all? Bruce has used and abused him (and not just in Red Hood) time and again. Not to mention, Jason had no reason to trust Damian at that point either, due to events in Teen Titans AND Leviathan. Why would he help people he can't trust? 

As for "not being allowed", Alfred was the last string holding Jason there. As Alfred did mean a lot to Jason too. 

But go ahead, shift blame for Bruce's actions onto Jason. As Bruce was busy playing hanky panky with Selena, and decided to toss his young son into the fire, knowing full well what would happen. If Bruce wasn't such a sociopath, Jason may have been willing to help. But that hole was dug by Batman, not Jason.

----------


## Fergus

> I wasn't talking about "moving books". Merely a different direction, _away_ from people that have been pretty toxic for Jason lately.
> 
> And please. Jason was not written well in Alfred RIP. Going by events, Jason would have gone after Bruce for sending Damian in. What's more, why should Jason work with Bruce at all? Bruce has used and abused him (and not just in Red Hood) time and again. Not to mention, Jason had no reason to trust Damian at that point either, due to events in Teen Titans AND Leviathan. Why would he help people he can't trust? 
> 
> As for "not being allowed", Alfred was the last string holding Jason there. As Alfred did mean a lot to Jason too. 
> 
> But go ahead, shift blame for Bruce's actions onto Jason. As Bruce was busy playing hanky panky with Selena, and decided to toss his young son into the fire, knowing full well what would happen. If Bruce wasn't such a sociopath, Jason may have been willing to help. But that hole was dug by Batman, not Jason.


Alfred was in Danger and Jason didn't even call up to check on what they were planning to do to save him nor did he lift a finger himself to help. Strange way of showing he cared.

Jason didn't care when Alfred was in danger.  he had no business being there if all he was going to do was attack those who had the balls and loved Alfred enough to risk their lives for him.

Jason wasn't written well in RIP, Bruce wasn't written well by King and Damian wasn't written well by Glass and Bendis. You can't pick and choose  canon.

The canon is 
Jason blamed a tween for a traumatic tragedy that wasn't his fault
Jason knew of the the situation with bane and Alfred and did nothing to help.

jason is a grown man who threatened to kill innocent teens, who has killed kids and who threatened to undress a 10 year old in public. All the bats haves have issues not just Bruce. Damian and kids shouldn't be anywhere near Jason.

----------


## Fergus

> Hello fellow minorities! Him distancing from Batman and make his own anti-hero name is my jam. I even have headcanon on my head, with my own design of his costume, his logo, his operation, et cetera.
> 
> But my main problem of this issue is why, why they made it as if Damian is the one who purely completely at fault on brainwashing method? Djinn brainwash them with her own consciousness, Kid Flash agree with that method because the villains look happy, Emiko is as passive as ever, Crush never said anything about that before but as usual she agrees with Djinn, and Roundhouse.... I agree with Kid Flash that he's like fungus, I need my Miconazole.


This is clearly a hit job by Glass.
Damian distancing himself from batman has the same problems as jason distancing himself from the bat.

Robin automatically means that Damian gets more use so I'm not in favour of Damian leaving it just yet nor do i think it's what's best for Damian.

While I believe it won't be a Drake situation. Damian has more potential and possibilities to explore than Tim.

I just don't think that narrative-wise and in real world terms it's the time for damian to leave Robin behind.

----------


## Astralabius

> This is clearly a hit job by Glass.
> Damian distancing himself from batman has the same problems as jason distancing himself from the bat.
> 
> Robin automatically means that Damian gets more use so I'm not in favour of Damian leaving it just yet nor do i think it's what's best for Damian.
> 
> While I believe it won't be a Drake situation. Damian has more potential and possibilities to explore than Tim.
> 
> I just don't think that narrative-wise and in real world terms it's the time for damian to leave Robin behind.


Agreed.
He's only 13 years old and looks ten, nobody would take him seriously as an anti-hero. I'm also bothered that only the Robins from stable families get to be heroes, while the ones who had a difficult childhood seem to be doomed to be forever stuck between heroism and villainy.

Also there are so many Elseworlds who already explore this idea, I really don't need it in the main universe.

----------


## Astralabius

I also highly doubt DC would put a lot of effort into Damian to make it work.
Just look at Damian's appearances in all of DC since Glass took over Teen Titans.
Damian in TT and Damian in all the other books doesn't fit together at all, editorial doesn't care if he has a clear direction or not. And since I prefer almost every single one of Damian's appearances outside of TT over him in TT I really would rather follow that direction.

----------


## Digifiend

> This is clearly a hit job by Glass.
> Damian distancing himself from batman has the same problems as jason distancing himself from the bat.
> 
> Robin automatically means that Damian gets more use so I'm not in favour of Damian leaving it just yet nor do i think it's what's best for Damian.
> 
> While I believe it won't be a Drake situation. Damian has more potential and possibilities to explore than Tim.
> 
> I just don't think that narrative-wise and in real world terms it's the time for damian to leave Robin behind.


Maybe he still will be leaving it behind. That annual that says I Was Robin on the cover is now after the next arc. Is it the book's finale?

----------


## Astralabius

> Maybe he still will be leaving it behind. That annual that says I Was Robin on the cover is now after the next arc. Is it the book's finale?


There's no official information out yet. We know that some books are ending, Rhato at 50, Supergirl at 42, Harley Quinn is ending at 75, Terrifics ends at 30. All end around late summer/early fall.

I wouldn't be suprised if the book ends at 45. Use the events of the annual to shut the team down for good and wrap it all up in the final issue after the annual.
If DC is serious about Damian "making criminals pay the ultimate price"  it's not like they can make him much worse after that. 
I'm not convinced this story even wants to give Damian a redemption arc, so I wouldn't bet on that to prolong the book either. At best it might get the book to 50.
With Batman discovering what the team has been doing and confronting Damian I also have a hard time imagining Bruce will let them keep working.

Teen Titans is a team book, but Damian was the one who originally brought them together and gave them a purpose. So if the annual ends with him leaving the team/book in one way or another that driving force would be gone and also the team would only be four characters.
No offense to Wallace, Emiko, Crush and Roundhouse fans, but I'm not convinced they could carry this book alone and I haven't heard anything about new characters coming in.

For me those are all signs Thompson will use this arc to build up to the confrontation between Batman and Robin and to tie up some loose ends, so that the book can end at 45. But I guess we'll have to wait for the solicitation for 45 to be sure.

----------


## shadow6743

> There's no official information out yet. We know that some books are ending, Rhato at 50, Supergirl at 42, Harley Quinn is ending at 75, Terrifics ends at 30. All end around late summer/early fall.
> 
> I wouldn't be suprised if the book ends at 45. Use the events of the annual to shut the team down for good and wrap it all up in the final issue after the annual.
> If DC is serious about Damian "making criminals pay the ultimate price"  it's not like they can make him much worse after that. 
> I'm not convinced this story even wants to give Damian a redemption arc, so I wouldn't bet on that to prolong the book either. At best it might get the book to 50.
> With Batman discovering what the team has been doing and confronting Damian I also have a hard time imagining Bruce will let them keep working.
> 
> Teen Titans is a team book, but Damian was the one who originally brought them together and gave them a purpose. So if the annual ends with him leaving the team/book in one way or another that driving force would be gone and also the team would only be four characters.
> No offense to Wallace, Emiko, Crush and Roundhouse fans, but I'm not convinced they could carry this book alone and I haven't heard anything about new characters coming in.
> ...


I think Thompson just is going to continue the numbering with his run and wrap up some loose ends. Who knows they may just either put out a new number one or have the title continue its numbering which wouldn't be unusual for most DC titles regardless of whose run it is.

He posted some art for the upcoming issues if anyone wants to see. I like this art style a lot.

https://twitter.com/javierfdezart/st...891744257?s=20

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> This is like 40% of Damian Wayne's reading list
> Where's
> Batman/TMNT
> Nightwing Rebirth
> Metal
> Gotham Resistantance
> Batman BeYond Rebirth
> Batman Tales Once upon a Crime
> DCeased
> ...


I've read some of the ones you mentioned, but this list try put 0 parallel universes. I read lil'gotham, I went to bookstore 2 times for read it, but it's not a canon (is this the right word in this case?) I really liked tmnt x batman comics, I would be happy with more numbers.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> This is like 40% of Damian Wayne's reading list
> Where's
> Batman/TMNT
> Nightwing Rebirth
> Metal
> Gotham Resistantance
> Batman BeYond Rebirth
> Batman Tales Once upon a Crime
> DCeased
> ...


And sorry,
https://leagueofcomicgeeks.com/profi...-reading-order
This is the list I want to show, I have both in my favorites and put the worong one.

----------


## Fergus

> I've read some of the ones you mentioned, but this list try put 0 parallel universes. I read lil'gotham, I went to bookstore 2 times for read it, but it's not a canon (is this the right word in this case?) I really liked tmnt x batman comics, I would be happy with more numbers.


yes canon is the right word and you are correct Lil gotham isn't canon nor is batman Tales once upon a crime but they are so enjoyable

----------


## Fergus

> And sorry,
> https://leagueofcomicgeeks.com/profi...-reading-order
> This is the list I want to show, I have both in my favorites and put the worong one.


That is quite the list. Much more accurate. I haven't read the 2 of the Robin series Damian stories. Will have to check them out.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Right click on the image you want to copy
> select copy image address
> then in the insert image tab above select the option [the from URL option]
> uncheck the box that says ' Retrieve remote file and reference locally'
> and submit


Thank you for your answer...


Test

----------


## Light of Justice

> And sorry,
> https://leagueofcomicgeeks.com/profi...-reading-order
> This is the list I want to show, I have both in my favorites and put the worong one.


Thank you, that list is so comprehensive. I didn't know that Damian ever appeared on Batwing comic. Will check them out

----------


## Light of Justice

> This is like 40% of Damian Wayne's reading list
> Where's
> Batman/TMNT
> Nightwing Rebirth
> Metal
> Gotham Resistantance
> Batman BeYond Rebirth
> Batman Tales Once upon a Crime
> DCeased
> ...


what is Calvaclade of Horror 2? I can't find it on DC comic list

----------


## dietrich

> what is Calvaclade of Horror 2? I can't find it on DC comic list


I know it's currently on the comixology best sellers list [a few of Damian featured titles are actually on the top 10 list incidentally] so you might be able to find it there.
It's an anthology and the Damian story is him teaming up with Grundy. Damian being a hero with some feels and a glimpse into Damian's softer side.

A lot of the one shots and stories with Damian outside of his regular title give us Damian well written and show how a majority of Dc writers get the character.

It's from 2 Halloween's ago

----------


## dietrich

Was batman beyond good? Haven't read TT since the feedback is conflicting and I don't want to annoy myself.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Was batman beyond good? Haven't read TT since the feedback is conflicting and I don't want to annoy myself.


Damian doesn't really pop in until the end, but it wasn't a bad issue.

----------


## dietrich

> Damian doesn't really pop in until the end, but it wasn't a bad issue.


Might check it out for terry anyways just not in the mood yet for TT  or any depressing comics in general

----------


## dietrich

Justice League Dark Apokolips War is no 6 on the US Top 20 most watched at home chart. 

I have some issues with the movie but At least Damian was well done so I'm glad  lots of people get to see it.

https://m.the-numbers.com/weekly-deg...-at-home-chart

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Agreed.
> He's only 13 years old and looks ten, nobody would take him seriously as an anti-hero. I'm also bothered that only the Robins from stable families get to be heroes, while the ones who had a difficult childhood seem to be doomed to be forever stuck between heroism and villainy.
> 
> Also there are so many Elseworlds who already explore this idea, I really don't need it in the main universe.


It's frustrating because DC need to keep their characters for as long as possible, so characters can't resolve their problems :/ it's no Way(ne) to do 80 years of a stories for a Batfamily if Bruce go to a psychologist, talking about problems instead of punch and yelling his sons and don't falling in love for a sadistic vilain, or killiing the worst villaings or arrest in a place they can't get out all the time.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Opinions?

----------


## dietrich



----------


## dietrich

> Opinions?


It's cute. Short tweens need plenty of naps

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> 


Bdndndnfkldkfkrkrkrj out keep antisocial distance.

----------


## sifighter

> Agreed.
> He's only 13 years old and looks ten, nobody would take him seriously as an anti-hero. I'm also bothered that only the Robins from stable families get to be heroes, while the ones who had a difficult childhood seem to be doomed to be forever stuck between heroism and villainy.
> 
> Also there are so many Elseworlds who already explore this idea, I really don't need it in the main universe.


I think how he looks and his age can depend on art, you see Damian in Supersons where he looks as a kid but in DCeased Damian definitely looks older and is drawn taller. I think if you got an artist that was willing to draw Damian a little taller he could look somewhere in his teens. You can have tall 13 to 15 year olds (Im saying that as sometime has to have passed since his 13th birthday in Rebirth but its just part of DCs convenience aging never to actually say ages).

----------


## Astralabius

> I think how he looks and his age can depend on art, you see Damian in Supersons where he looks as a kid but in DCeased Damian definitely looks older and is drawn taller. I think if you got an artist that was willing to draw Damian a little taller he could look somewhere in his teens. You can have tall 13 to 15 year olds (I’m saying that as sometime has to have passed since his 13th birthday in Rebirth but it’s just part of DC’s convenience aging never to actually say ages).


I think the original artist of Dceased simply isn't good at drawing kids, everyone thought Jon and Damian were older in that universe, but Dustin Nguyen draws them closer to how they looked like in super sons in Hope at World's End, making me think they were supposed to be 10 and 13 there too.

I don't think he would look that cool or intimidating as a 15 year old either, especially if you let him fight against tanks like Batman. And if DC turned Damian into an anti-hero you can be sure that they would use him as an antagonist for Batman.

----------


## Astralabius

> 


Not sure if this is a joke and they knew what they were doing with this or if someone didn't think this through.

----------


## Yennefer

*spoilers:*
 https://www.cbr.com/catwoman-80th-an...yne-confirmed/ 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## sifighter

> *spoilers:*
>  https://www.cbr.com/catwoman-80th-an...yne-confirmed/ 
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
 Yeah, as interesting as this is and makes me want to see King’s mini-series, but this is most certainly not canon and we probably won’t see an in universe Helena Wayne anytime soon unless Earth 2 returns. Of course if she does become Canon I will be shocked. 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## CPSparkles

> Not sure if this is a joke and they knew what they were doing with this or if someone didn't think this through.


I would like to see what goes on behind the scenes at DC.
There's also two with Dick Grayson.
One as Nightwing  and Starfire from the animated verse. Showing how you can keep in touch while social distancing. Skpe.
Which was sweet.


Then there another with Dick as Robin. You know the infamous panel where Batman is slapping Robin. 
Only it's altered so batman is using a long stick with a hand at the end.

That was from Greg Capullo and it was retweeted by a few writers including Ben Abernathy the new bat editor and DC Nation.

That is shocking.

----------


## redmax99

there should be no helena wayne on earth prime without an helena kyle. writers litterally had to write selena giving up her child that she had with her husband because it wasn't bruce wayne child.

----------


## CPSparkles

> *spoilers:*
>  Yeah, as interesting as this is and makes me want to see King’s mini-series, but this is most certainly not canon and we probably won’t see an in universe Helena Wayne anytime soon unless Earth 2 returns. Of course if she does become Canon I will be shocked. 
> *end of spoilers*


Not sure why the spoiler tags. we saw those pages before the lock down started and shortly after leaving Batman King shared the title of his Catwoman Special story. Helena.

I don't what else to say. it was a nice story though Selina seemed to dislike the fact that she can't enjoy  somethings due to the pregnancy.

There wasn't much to the story. It's not canon. The baby went from kid to grown woman. She looked older than Earth 2 Helena 

i'm looking forward to the return of Earth 2 characters. I really liked that Helena Wayne and her interactions with Power Girl and Damian.

----------


## CPSparkles

> there should be no helena wayne on earth prime without an helena kyle. writers litterally had to write selena giving up her child that she had with her husband because it wasn't bruce wayne child.


I always thought that a good way to introduce Helena Wayne was to reveal Helena Kyle was actually Bruce's kid not Sam's.

That way they could bypass the pregnancy and baby stages.
 I didn't know Sam and Selina were married. Didn't she date Slam Brady. Sam's dad?

I was lowkey disappoined when the baby turned out to be Sam's

----------


## Astralabius

> *spoilers:*
>  https://www.cbr.com/catwoman-80th-an...yne-confirmed/ 
> *end of spoilers*


Highly doubt this is canon and Batman and Catwoman isn't canon to the main universe either.

----------


## Astralabius

> I would like to see what goes on behind the scenes at DC.
> There's also two with Dick Grayson.
> One as Nightwing  and Starfire from the animated verse. Showing how you can keep in touch while social distancing. Skpe.
> Which was sweet.
> 
> 
> Then there another with Dick as Robin. You know the infamous panel where Batman is slapping Robin. 
> Only it's altered so batman is using a long stick with a hand at the end.
> 
> ...


Yeah honestly, DC needs to stop with Batman hitting Robins. Back then he only did under mind control, but nowadays...
It's disturbing.

----------


## Astralabius

-------------

----------


## Light of Justice

future damian.jpg

Anyone know what issue that page come from? And why Damian's bat-suit looks so..... transformer?

----------


## Yennefer

> future damian.jpg
> 
> Anyone know what issue that page come from? And why Damian's bat-suit looks so..... transformer?


Justice League: Generation Lost. Vol 1 Issue 14  :Smile:

----------


## redmax99

> I always thought that a good way to introduce Helena Wayne was to reveal Helena Kyle was actually Bruce's kid not Sam's.
> 
> That way they could bypass the pregnancy and baby stages.
>  I didn't know Sam and Selina were married. Didn't she date Slam Brady. Sam's dad?
> 
> I was lowkey disappoined when the baby turned out to be Sam's


i thought they was married, i was wrong but it was jr she had helena with. i have to reread catwoman

----------


## Light of Justice

> Justice League: Generation Lost. Vol 1 Issue 14


Thank you for your answer. It's interesting that on that comic Damian was able to live longer than usual by using lazarus pit, when on prior after his death, he was said that he can't be revived by lazarus pit (CMIIW)
So many Damian's future persona, is it usual for Robins to have that many future possibilities?

----------


## Light of Justice

> I always thought that a good way to introduce Helena Wayne was to reveal Helena Kyle was actually Bruce's kid not Sam's.
> 
> That way they could bypass the pregnancy and baby stages.
>  I didn't know Sam and Selina were married. Didn't she date Slam Brady. Sam's dad?
> 
> I was lowkey disappoined when the baby turned out to be Sam's


I agree. I always find it weird that Selina had daughter named Helena but not with Bruce. If they write Selina had daughter named Helena whom she gave up for adoption then she had daughter with Bruce and named her Helena too, then she decides to keep her, that will be pretty messed up for her character.

But on the other hand, on Batman Brave and Bold they also wrote Batman and Catwoman's son named Damian, so maybe it's kinda common in comic industries.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I always thought that a good way to introduce Helena Wayne was to reveal Helena Kyle was actually Bruce's kid not Sam's.
> 
> That way they could bypass the pregnancy and baby stages.
>  I didn't know Sam and Selina were married. Didn't she date Slam Brady. Sam's dad?
> 
> I was lowkey disappoined when the baby turned out to be Sam's


I think, if Selena is already pregnant, like for 3 months, and Bruce and she breake up (because it's the title of batman cover, what don't mean too much), so Selina will show up when Helena is almost borning or just born. But I also think they can not brake up because Selena is pregnant and a new BATCAT will be released for not interfer too much in normal storie.
Again I think Helena will be one more think for break Damian, and this is because Duke will became Robin some years after.
Was Louis pregnance showed in superman's comics? I don't read superman without Damian or 10 years old Jon.

----------


## Arctic Cyclist

> I agree. I always find it weird that Selina had daughter named Helena but not with Bruce. If they write Selina had daughter named Helena whom she gave up for adoption then she had daughter with Bruce and named her Helena too, then she decides to keep her, that will be pretty messed up for her character.
> 
> But on the other hand, on Batman Brave and Bold they also wrote Batman and Catwoman's son named Damian, so maybe it's kinda common in comic industries.


You...you didn't watch that episode, did you?

 Which is weird as it's on Netflix. Selina is not Damian's mother. It was a fanfiction written by Alfred and a way for the series writers to get a popular new character acknowledged in their series despite having established that Talia and Bruce have no interest in each other. 

That's really messed up that you think Selina is Damian's mom despite the episode being very clear that it was Alfred's fantasy.

----------


## Astralabius

> I think, if Selena is already pregnant, like for 3 months, and Bruce and she breake up (because it's the title of batman cover, what don't mean too much), so Selina will show up when Helena is almost borning or just born. But I also think they can not brake up because Selena is pregnant and a new BATCAT will be released for not interfer too much in normal storie.
> Again I think Helena will be one more think for break Damian, and this is because Duke will became Robin some years after.
> Was Louis pregnance showed in superman's comics? I don't read superman without Damian or 10 years old Jon.


I don't think Selina is pregnant at all in main continuity. King is done shaping Batman, he said so himself. Everything since his run ended is set in its own continuity.

----------


## dietrich

> I agree. I always find it weird that Selina had daughter named Helena but not with Bruce. If they write Selina had daughter named Helena whom she gave up for adoption then she had daughter with Bruce and named her Helena too, then she decides to keep her, that will be pretty messed up for her character.
> 
> But on the other hand, on Batman Brave and Bold they also wrote Batman and Catwoman's son named Damian, so maybe it's kinda common in comic industries.



I REALLY hate that they did that in Brave and the Bold.
Alfred and his dodgy fan fics.

However a few days ago while passing time scrolling through DC's  various twitter account's I discovered why and who made the choice.

James Tucker.   He produced the Batman: Brave and the Bold show and he said he to wanted to do the new dynamic duo Dick and Damian. Selina was already set up in that universe and due to episode numbering restrictions they had to just go with it.

He is a fan of Dick and Damian team and had wanted to do more episodes with the duo but sadly the show was only green lit for the number of seasons and he had added responsibilities to boot heading DC's Animation Department.

On different James Tucker and DC Animation Topic it appears that the shared Universe might be a one off and that end might just be the End.

On an old interview on DC.Com James says the connected universe [DCaMU] was a pet project of his.

The suit's took inspiration from Lee's redesign of the JL uniforms and they made the choice to use the new 52 JL comic as inspiration for the story of how the jL comes together in the new connected Universe.
He goes on to add that they would not be adapting just tales from the new52 but will be sourcing material for all DC's continuity.

This was from a very old interview and Tucker has remained vague on whether the end of JLD:AW will lead us into a new shared universe of movies.

The interview it was intended as one off but hopefully the success of the project will lead to another shared uni.
One thing is certain, it won't be leading into the Rebirth DCAMU as some have been speculating since there was never a new 52 DCAMU [only 4 out of the 15 movies were based on new 52 comics]

----------


## dietrich

> I don't think Selina is pregnant at all in main continuity. King is done shaping Batman, he said so himself. Everything since his run ended is set in its own continuity.



It's funny really. King has employed the carrot and stick method since he landed on the main Batman title.
he's still doing the same only the carrot on the end of the stick isn't real just a painting of a carrot.

Unbelievable and at the same time Impressive.

Just process the fact that this man spent like 4 years on 85 issues of Batman.

More than half of which [up till the end of the Knightmares arc] every single that had happened, everyone and all outcomes had been planned and orchestrated by Bane.

Then other half [from the issue where Bruce punched Tim to the point where bruce is about to break Banes back. Before Thomas shot him] was pre planned by Bruce and he was merely acting to fool his enemies who were presumably watching.

ALL ACCORDING TO KEIKAKU

Talk about taking a meme too far

King adds nothing of value to the Batman lore because what we got were puppets and pretence.
In a run praised by some to show the human side the REAL batbruce we got Puppets and Pretence and Fake outs.

And yet they follow the carrot.

----------


## Light of Justice

> You...you didn't watch that episode, did you?
> 
>  Which is weird as it's on Netflix. Selina is not Damian's mother. It was a fanfiction written by Alfred and a way for the series writers to get a popular new character acknowledged in their series despite having established that Talia and Bruce have no interest in each other. 
> 
> That's really messed up that you think Selina is Damian's mom despite the episode being very clear that it was Alfred's fantasy.


I watched. I know that's only Alfred's fanfiction. Of course I didn't think that Damian is Selina's child for real. I just point out that it's usual for comic industries to borrow popular character's name for new character whose their aspects are completely different than the original, but share one aspect similarity. Like, oh Catwoman's daughter is named Helena, oh Batman's son is named Damian. Yes just like you said it's a way to make a new character get acknowledged by common people. 

It's fine for Damian because Batman Brave and Bold exists in different realities and again it's only fanfiction, but for Catwoman's case, if she will have new baby with Bruce and name it Helena when Helena Kyle as Sam's daughter exists, it makes Catwoman (and DC writer) looks uncreative at choosing names. 
So I think either they will retcon Helena Kyle's existence, or just like CPSparkles said they will write that grown up Helena Kyle learns that she is actually Bruce's child all along. But it will make Bruce looks like he never wears condom while having sex with woman, and make him once again unintentionally miss his child's childhood, maybe it's worse on Helena Kyle's case because Bruce helped Selina to hand over Helena Kyle for adoption. I don't know which one is the worse option.

----------


## Astralabius

> It's funny really. King has employed the carrot and stick method since he landed on the main Batman title.
> he's still doing the same only the carrot on the end of the stick isn't real just a painting of a carrot.
> 
> Unbelievable and at the same time Impressive.
> 
> Just process the fact that this man spent like 4 years on 85 issues of Batman.
> 
> More than half of which [up till the end of the Knightmares arc] every single that had happened, everyone and all outcomes had been planned and orchestrated by Bane.
> 
> ...


I agree. 

Some people are still waiting for the wedding, even though I think it's pretty obvious that there isn't going to be a real wedding and I'm sure King knew all along there was never going to be one. He also never promised a real one after 50, he said something along the lines of there being something similar, but fans only saw what they wanted to see in his statements and claimed he had promised it, desperately hoping for it for the rest of the run.

The last page of this new story makes it pretty clear it's set in King's annual 2 continuity. Which is not canon. It also wouldn't make sense to use King's story as a set up for Helena in the main book, since the story ends with a grown-up Helena. That's not how you set up a new storyline in the main universe. You probably would have ended with Helena's birth in that case. Batman and Catwoman is most likely also set in King' annual 2 continuity from what he said about the story so far. A story spanning 50 years and ending with the death of your protagonists isn't a main universe story.

That interview with Tynion I have seen a few people use to claim that he confirmed he had to take King's batcat book into account doesn't actually do that. Tynion simply said that it's difficult to write them after the previous run was so centered around that relationship and hints that how he writes them might clash with how King is going to write them in his book. Nothing more. It's not a confirmation for what they claim it confirms.

Of course nothing of this being main continuity doesn't mean you can't enjoy it. I enjoy DCeased and it's not main continuity.
But I don't expect things like Damian and Jon growing up together and being part of a new Justice League to happen in main continuity.
I also think that after 85 issues of King's Batman and my personal disinterest in the batcat ship I can safely say that it's probably for the better if King doesn't touch main continuity Batman again.
He didn't add anything of value in 85 issues, Tynion already has me more interested in what happens to Batman in under 10, probably because I don't feel like throwing his version of Bruce repeatedly against a wall because he's so annoying.

If people want to know where main continuity is going they should look at what Tynion is writing on Batman and look at what the new creative team for Catwoman starting September has teased so far, which is heists and crime/action drama.
They shouldn't look to King.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I REALLY hate that they did that in Brave and the Bold.
> Alfred and his dodgy fan fics.
> 
> However a few days ago while passing time scrolling through DC's  various twitter account's I discovered why and who made the choice.
> 
> James Tucker.   He produced the Batman: Brave and the Bold show and he said he to wanted to do the new dynamic duo Dick and Damian. Selina was already set up in that universe and due to episode numbering restrictions they had to just go with it.
> 
> He is a fan of Dick and Damian team and had wanted to do more episodes with the duo but sadly the show was only green lit for the number of seasons and he had added responsibilities to boot heading DC's Animation Department.
> 
> ...


I hope the next era of DC animation can show Dick and Damian dynamic as Batman and Robin properly. Dick as Batman scene on Batman:Bad Blood hardly enough to satisfy Dickbats era fans like me..

----------


## Light of Justice

Double post sorry

----------


## Yennefer

> Thank you for your answer. It's interesting that on that comic Damian was able to live longer than usual by using lazarus pit, when on prior after his death, he was said that he can't be revived by lazarus pit (CMIIW)
> So many Damian's future persona, is it usual for Robins to have that many future possibilities?


I don't know!  :Smile:  Maybe because as the blood son he has so many potential!

----------


## Yennefer

Also..... Did King just write a heavily pregnant woman...... Fighting the bad guys? I was among those who thought that a heavily pregnant Catwoman on the building would be a dream... So he didn't really wrote a pregnant woman doing dangerous things... Cute and very sweet story. Helena being a Selina with blue eyes was beautiful. But then again it was ridiculous when those panels came. Anyways. I hope you are all safe whenever you are! And I hope things will turn out well for all of you. <3

----------


## Light of Justice

When I re-read Teen Titans #41 (yes I love to torture myself lately) I realized something. That issue is the last issue written by Glass right? Not only Damian didn't launch any attack on battle with Djinn except became Djinn's moral support and call Roundhouse corny, he didn't have any interaction with Elias or any genie or demon. He looks like he didn't have any role on Djinn war at all (CMIIW). So why on that issue Damian ask the team to trust him to defeat Elias? Okay fine, Glass hates Damian, we've already established that fact, but why on previous issue he wrote that Elias had met Damian before? Elias said 'So good to see you again my boy' or something like that to Damian? And then left that matter without any explanation (just like Jason's Pandora box)? Is it related to the fact that Damian went to hell when he died? I have little knowledge about Dante Inferno, does genie came from hell or something? The more I read that issue, the more I become confused. Anyone can give me some explanation about those matters?

----------


## Digifiend

> Was Louis pregnance showed in superman's comics? I don't read superman without Damian or 10 years old Jon.


Yes. Read Convergence: Superman.
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Convergen...perman_Vol_1_2

----------


## Rebeca Armus

So, I was looking fo DC upcoming animations, I think this is the more atualized sites:

https://screenrant.com/dc-tv-shows-upcoming/
https://collider.com/hbo-max-movies-...riginals-list/

And there is no planning for Teen Titans or possible Damian appers series.
Maybe he can show up in one episode or two of Batman 2020 new series. (Like in Harley).

Do you guys think Damian will not be relevant for DC animations in the next 2 years?  :Frown:

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Yes. Read Convergence: Superman.
> https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Convergen...perman_Vol_1_2


Thanks <333

----------


## adrikito

I saw the movie.

Poor nightwing. Use the pits is one bad idea..

For a moment I thought that Darkseid was going to kill Damian. Thanks Raven to save him.

At least they had one kiss before all this ended. They are reviving my old desire to have Damian with one girlfriend.. But I think that I will have to wait years and one timeskip from 2 years(Damian with 15) to have him in one long relationship.-


I WILL MISS THIS DC ANIMATED UNIVERSE DESIGNS.. If that film with Superman is a New One I am a little disappointed. These designs look to classic. I prefer return to the 90s animated universe.

----------


## CPSparkles

> I saw the movie.
> 
> Poor nightwing. Use the pits is one bad idea..
> 
> For a moment I thought that Darkseid was going to kill Damian. Thanks Raven to save him.
> 
> At least they had one kiss before all this ended. They are reviving my old desire to have Damian with one girlfriend.. But I think that I will have to wait years and one timeskip from 2 years(Damian with 15) to have him in one long relationship.-
> 
> 
> I WILL MISS THIS DC ANIMATED UNIVERSE DESIGNS.. If that film with Superman is a New One I am a little disappointed. These designs look to classic. I prefer return to the 90s animated universe.



I can't wait to see what new things we get from animaton guys.
I hope we get a another shared world and more movies like this last one.
It broke my heart but it's also the best DCanimated movie to date.

I really liked raven and Damian and the fact that they had call backs to batman and Robin.

I hope they never return to the 90's universe because that was before Damian.
It's unlikely they will return to the 90's because it's the 90's and we are in 2020. The landscape is different.

I want Damian as Robin
Dick as Nightwiong
Duke as signal
Jason as red hood and Tim as Red Robin

----------


## Aahz

> Do you guys think Damian will not be relevant for DC animations in the next 2 years?


Is there even coming much out in the next new years, the only animated movie announced sofar is "Superman: Man of Tomorrow".

----------


## Digifiend

> So, I was looking fo DC upcoming animations, I think this is the more atualized sites:
> 
> https://screenrant.com/dc-tv-shows-upcoming/
> https://collider.com/hbo-max-movies-...riginals-list/
> 
> And there is no planning for Teen Titans or possible Damian appers series.
> Maybe he can show up in one episode or two of Batman 2020 new series. (Like in Harley).
> 
> Do you guys think Damian will not be relevant for DC animations in the next 2 years?


Damian could be in Young Justice. He was seen as a baby in season 3. Combine a timeskip with his New 52 origin (accelerated aging similar to the comic version of Impulse, since the five year timeline made it impossible for him to be 10 years old - Rebirth, which restored a 15 year timeline, retconned it back to natural aging) and he could easily join the Team as Robin (with Tim becoming Red Robin).

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Is there even coming much out in the next new years, the only animated movie announced sofar is "Superman: Man of Tomorrow".


See the list I sent, it supposed to be the projects at 2022. But I believe it will change little. Batman 2020 new series was confirmed.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Damian could be in Young Justice. He was seen as a baby in season 3. Combine a timeskip with his New 52 origin (accelerated aging similar to the comic version of Impulse, since the five year timeline made it impossible for him to be 10 years old - Rebirth, which restored a 15 year timeline, retconned it back to natural aging) and he could easily join the Team as Robin (with Tim becoming Red Robin).


It would be amazing, I thought it's not so possible because Damian had a bad  team work with YJ in comics, but if tha can happen in animimation... ToT

----------


## dietrich

> So, I was looking fo DC upcoming animations, I think this is the more atualized sites:
> 
> https://screenrant.com/dc-tv-shows-upcoming/
> https://collider.com/hbo-max-movies-...riginals-list/
> 
> And there is no planning for Teen Titans or possible Damian appers series.
> Maybe he can show up in one episode or two of Batman 2020 new series. (Like in Harley).
> 
> Do you guys think Damian will not be relevant for DC animations in the next 2 years?


Why are you looking at screenrant and collider for news about Dc animation?

----------


## dietrich

> It would be amazing, I thought it's not so possible because Damian had a bad  team work with YJ in comics, but if tha can happen in animimation... ToT


Damian has never been ion a a YJ comic.

YJ is trash so I'm not so jazzed on Damian showing up there. I'd rather a few appearances on harley and whatever the animated department have planned for him.

There's a ton of characters in YJ and Damian is a scene stealer. I'd rather not have any further saltiness directed at him due to someones fav. lack of screen time.

Tim has hardly had any screentime. Let the show spotlight the characters they have rather than shoving new ones like Damian and jason into an already bloated cast

----------


## dietrich

> I agree. 
> 
> Some people are still waiting for the wedding, even though I think it's pretty obvious that there isn't going to be a real wedding and I'm sure King knew all along there was never going to be one. He also never promised a real one after 50, he said something along the lines of there being something similar, but fans only saw what they wanted to see in his statements and claimed he had promised it, desperately hoping for it for the rest of the run.
> 
> The last page of this new story makes it pretty clear it's set in King's annual 2 continuity. Which is not canon. It also wouldn't make sense to use King's story as a set up for Helena in the main book, since the story ends with a grown-up Helena. That's not how you set up a new storyline in the main universe. You probably would have ended with Helena's birth in that case. Batman and Catwoman is most likely also set in King' annual 2 continuity from what he said about the story so far. A story spanning 50 years and ending with the death of your protagonists isn't a main universe story.
> 
> That interview with Tynion I have seen a few people use to claim that he confirmed he had to take King's batcat book into account doesn't actually do that. Tynion simply said that it's difficult to write them after the previous run was so centered around that relationship and hints that how he writes them might clash with how King is going to write them in his book. Nothing more. It's not a confirmation for what they claim it confirms.
> 
> Of course nothing of this being main continuity doesn't mean you can't enjoy it. I enjoy DCeased and it's not main continuity.
> ...


This. I feel bad for those he let down but they also deserved it. How can they be that gullible.
I know King tried to say his situation was like Morrison's which I thought was laughable.

2020 and writers including King are building on Morrison's work. King himself admitted that he has said all he has to say on Batman. I don't know what these desperate fans hear when they hear him say that

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Sorry sorry, he showed up in Teen Titans 88~92, since this have Super Boy and kidflash I confounded them.
I got your point, but I don't like many YJ characters, so if Damian steal attention I am ok u-u

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Why are you looking at screenrant and collider for news about Dc animation?


I just wrote "DC upcoming animated shows" and clicked in "new", so it should be more recent content.
What site do you use for read notices about animations?

----------


## dietrich

> I just wrote "DC upcoming animated shows" and clicked in "new", so it should be more recent content.
> What site do you use for read notices about animations?


Usually the most reliable are DC's own site's like #DC Nation #DC Animation stuff like that are the places where they break news of new/upcoming DC stuff.
Screenrant and collider are usually out of date or incorrect.

Next years animated movies haven't yet been announced.

----------


## dietrich

> Sorry sorry, he showed up in Teen Titans 88~92, since this have Super Boy and kidflash I confounded them.
> I got your point, but I don't like many YJ characters, so if Damian steal attention I am ok u-u


YJ has too many characters. I wish they would go back to the original cast and just focus on them

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/byavasan





https://twitter.com/DESAWORKS

----------


## CPSparkles

Inspirared by Akira






https://twitter.com/langbuliang

----------


## CPSparkles

Robin Damian Wayne v Bane



Freddie Williams and https://twitter.com/adalhouse

----------


## CPSparkles

Young Justice Damian and Jason

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/sarriathmg

----------


## CPSparkles

> Sorry sorry, he showed up in Teen Titans 88~92, since this have Super Boy and kidflash I confounded them.
> I got your point, but I don't like many YJ characters, so if Damian steal attention I am ok u-u


I also want to see Damian in YJ along with Jon

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/mori_YJ3





https://twitter.com/akamayura

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/redjack_036



https://twitter.com/langbuliang



https://twitter.com/yosuga0101

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/glitter_dc




https://twitter.com/langbuliang



https://twitter.com/Maze_Miro

----------


## CPSparkles

https://doc-squash.tumblr.com

bruce-wayne-billionaire-batman-hairstylist

----------


## CPSparkles

https://doc-squash.tumblr.com

blackmail

----------


## CPSparkles

https://doc-squash.tumblr.com

tears-are-meant-to-be-shed

----------


## CPSparkles

https://doc-squash.tumblr.com

i-i-was-just-kidding-batman-sir

----------


## CPSparkles

https://doc-squash.tumblr.com

id-do-a-lot-of-things-for-you

----------


## Jackalope89

> I also want to see Damian in YJ along with Jon


Well, season 3 did show them at around the same age (give or take a few months). Along with a bunch of other super babies.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Well, season 3 did show them at around the same age (give or take a few months). Along with a bunch of other super babies.


As hyped as that got me a part of me is also not whemled by the fact that YJ has so many characters that I'm not sure how they will handle it going forward or what the future holds for the new characters they teased.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> YJ has too many characters. I wish they would go back to the original cast and just focus on them


I like when they produce subdivisions too, like there is "Batman Series, with Batman characters" and "superman series", with Superman characters. BUT! a couple times BUM! there is a crossoverrrrr (*-*)/
This got pretty well in the animations movies, if could be possible do a "Nightwing - the series", "supersons - the series", "YJ - with less characters - theseries" etc. , they could have many characters but in 24 episodes give a good look in each one because they will not be sharing time in just one serie.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I like when they produce subdivisions too, like there is "Batman Series, with Batman characters" and "superman series", with Superman characters. BUT! a couple times BUM! there is a crossoverrrrr (*-*)/
> This got pretty well in the animations movies, if could be possible do a "Nightwing - the series", "supersons - the series", "YJ - with less characters - theseries" etc. , they could have many characters but in 24 episodes give a good look in each one because they will not be sharing time in just one serie.


I think before we have supersons animation, they should make Jon Kent origin movie first, because unlike Damian, Jon is a really new character, even some supersons fans don't know where did he came from, except the fact that he's Lois and Clark's kid. To put him on animation out of nowhere, and became the light side of Damian on their partnership, when some of DC animated fans now already fond of Damian's antic and character development, it will not end well for Jon's character. Especially animation series before heavily bolster Diana and Clark's ship.

----------


## Light of Justice

https://www.instagram.com/p/CAvBULbF...id=fxkz3z95ufe

https://twitter.com/gozerdor/status/...109694976?s=09

Supersons fan animation
Artis : @gozerdor

Based on this page
RCO022_1487216873.jpg

----------


## dietrich

> I think before we have supersons animation, they should make Jon Kent origin movie first, because unlike Damian, Jon is a really new character, even some supersons fans don't know where did he came from, except the fact that he's Lois and Clark's kid. To put him on animation out of nowhere, and became the light side of Damian on their partnership, when some of DC animated fans now already fond of Damian's antic and character development, it will not end well for Jon's character. Especially animation series before heavily bolster Diana and Clark's ship.


Unlike Damian or the other superboy Conner who has a complicated origin. Jon is pretty much just Clark and lois' kid that's it. I don't see DC ever doing a Jon kent origin. There isn't a need for it. He came from Clark and lois that's it

A supersons animation only needs the origin of the supersons which we saw in Superman. Jon in YJ has already been introduced and there was no need for us to know anything more.

The CW and the animation department have Clark and lois together. Majority of the audience when they think Clark think lois. 

They just need to make the mistake Tomasi made. Watering down Damian's character for the sake of Supersons

----------


## Masterff

> I like when they produce subdivisions too, like there is "Batman Series, with Batman characters" and "superman series", with Superman characters. BUT! a couple times BUM! there is a crossoverrrrr (*-*)/
> This got pretty well in the animations movies, if could be possible do a "Nightwing - the series", "supersons - the series", "YJ - with less characters - theseries" etc. , they could have many characters but in 24 episodes give a good look in each one because they will not be sharing time in just one serie.


Makes absolutely NO SENSE!!

YJ,TT,Titans etc. are teams who consists of different franchises!!!

Only hypotetical sense would consist in making different teams:
Nightwing,Superboy,Wonder Girl,Miss Martian...
Tim Drake,....

SuperSons makes no sense, since they were just born, better would be Miss Martian-Conner SOLO SERIES...

----------


## dietrich

I would rather a Dick and Damian spin off from the YJ universe or just to see the series do the Dickbats era.

A supersons spin off would also be cool.

----------


## adrikito

> I can't wait to see what new things we get from animaton guys.
> I hope we get a another shared world and more movies like this last one.
> It broke my heart but it's also the best DCanimated movie to date.
> 
> I really liked raven and Damian and the fact that they had call backs to batman and Robin.
> 
> I hope they never return to the 90's universe because that was before Damian.
> It's unlikely they will return to the 90's because it's the 90's and we are in 2020. The landscape is different.
> 
> ...


In the case that we return with that Universe I want Damian as ROBIN. OF COURSE.

No thanks. I prefer continue watching the BATSIGNAL as the only signal.

Maybe different but... What I saw looks even more classic that the 90s animated world.

Talking about the 90s world.. They made one film recently bases in the 90s world with Jessica Cruz as GL.

----------


## dietrich

I think that going forward whatever they do it'd be mixed up. I get that comic fans are sticklers for comic accurate adaptations but honestly that's never been a case with these movies. Plus lets face it I don't think these movies are made for comic fans.

I would like to see Duke get his spotlight in an animated movie. All the batboys have had their time. Even Harper has been animated so it's about time Duke got his come up.

----------


## dietrich

Damian and Goliath v Deathstroke by Tyrell Cannon

----------


## CPSparkles

It seems Damian is very lucky to have lasted at all in the DCAMU.
One of the lead writers doesn't/didn't like him and kept trying to get rid of him.

https://www.scifinow.co.uk/interview...nie-altbacker/

Apparently we should be really excited for what the animated Department has coming for us.

I hope we get more Titans stuff. Tucker said that he's biggest regret was no been able to do another titans movie since that was the team that got him the most excited.
Fingers crossed we get more Titans/NTT's stuff

----------


## Blue22

> It seems Damian is very lucky to have lasted at all in the DCAMU.
> One of the lead writers doesn't/didn't like him and kept trying to get rid of him.
> 
> https://www.scifinow.co.uk/interview...nie-altbacker/
> 
> Apparently we should be really excited for what the animated Department has coming for us.
> 
> I hope we get more Titans stuff. Tucker said that he's biggest regret was no been able to do another titans movie since that was the team that got him the most excited.
> Fingers crossed we get more Titans/NTT's stuff


I would loved that. Especially since the Titans amounted to nothing but cannon fodder in the newest movie. All those cool new characters (and Wallace) and characters we spent two movies getting to know, just for most of them don't get any lines and die off-screen. If you were gonna red shirt them, at least give us one last movie to say goodbye -___-

----------


## Masterff

> I would rather a Dick and Damian spin off from the YJ universe or just to see the series do the Dickbats era.
> 
> A supersons spin off would also be cool.


SuperSons would recquire a big Time-Skip...

And it would actually be bad, because on this earth Conner,Wally etc. have less powers than the Comic Versions...
So if Jon has all powers it would make Conner look bad

----------


## Light of Justice

> I think that going forward whatever they do it'd be mixed up. I get that comic fans are sticklers for comic accurate adaptations but honestly that's never been a case with these movies. Plus lets face it I don't think these movies are made for comic fans.
> 
> I would like to see Duke get his spotlight in an animated movie. All the batboys have had their time. Even Harper has been animated so it's about time Duke got his come up.


How about Robin War animated movie? Or perhaps live-action movie? 
To make it simpler they perhaps can remove CoO and Grayson spy things and made a plot like, children of Gotham made We Are Robin organization when Damian is away (like when he went to monk temple on mountain to take care of his anger issue or when he's on boarding school), then some kids turn rogue and stir chaos on Gotham so Nightwing, Red Hood, Red Robin, and Robin take care of them and guide them into different path. Duke will be leader of We Are Robin organization who begrudgingly works together with original Robins and gradually respect all four of them.

----------


## dietrich

> How about Robin War animated movie? Or perhaps live-action movie? 
> To make it simpler they perhaps can remove CoO and Grayson spy things and made a plot like, children of Gotham made We Are Robin organization when Damian is away (like when he went to monk temple on mountain to take care of his anger issue or when he's on boarding school), then some kids turn rogue and stir chaos on Gotham so Nightwing, Red Hood, Red Robin, and Robin take care of them and guide them into different path. Duke will be leader of We Are Robin organization who begrudgingly works together with original Robins and gradually respect all four of them.


I'd be down for a We Are Robin animated movie or even live action [those kids and the concept are very cool and unlike live action Robin who has never really gone down well with audiences]

I think a WAR movie has a lot success potential. I'd have the kids, Duke and Dick the OG Robin no more.

The world already know Dick Grayson was Robin so no need to do a massive intro. Just showcase his current role Nightwing so audiences know what he did after leaving Robin.

Adding Tim, Damian and Jason is too much set up which eats up running time needed for the movie and WAR kids.

----------


## dietrich

> SuperSons would recquire a big Time-Skip...
> 
> And it would actually be bad, because on this earth Conner,Wally etc. have less powers than the Comic Versions...
> So if Jon has all powers it would make Conner look bad


Jon doesn't have to have all the powers. he doesn't even need to be as powerful as Conner for a supersons spin off. You are correct it would require a time skip but since it's a spin off it shouldn't impact the YJ series which could just do it's own thing

----------


## Jackalope89

> Jon doesn't have to have all the powers. he doesn't even need to be as powerful as Conner for a supersons spin off. You are correct it would require a time skip but since it's a spin off it shouldn't impact the YJ series which could just do it's own thing


Yeah. Have it around when Jon is still getting used to using powers like flight and what not. Like his early Rebirth appearances.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Since Marvel did the spyder-verse animations looks a good time for DC do a Robin war animation. Various characters, ethnicities, ages, products. I can smell the money.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> https://www.instagram.com/p/CAvBULbF...id=fxkz3z95ufe
> 
> https://twitter.com/gozerdor/status/...109694976?s=09
> 
> Supersons fan animation
> Artis : @gozerdor
> 
> Based on this page
> Attachment 97363


Thanks for share thissss, So adorable.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Do you guys know "Red Hood Fan Series".

Jason is the protagonist, but Damian appers 30% of the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fykv...a7futF&index=2

The child actor is very good.

----------


## adrikito

*I KNOW THE SERIE... But after some time. I forgot the serie existence..* 


New trinity..

new trinity.jpg

Despite that I am not sure if I like this BAT-Costume for Damian.. 

I am fine with Raven and I think that Kon needs a cape(not a jacket) to be more superman.

----------


## dietrich

> Since Marvel did the spyder-verse animations looks a good time for DC do a Robin war animation. Various characters, ethnicities, ages, products. I can smell the money.


I feel that a Spider-verse type movie would be the ideal for a Robin's movie that introduces all 5 canon Robins.

DC has always  trimed down the Robins in outside media because there's too many Robin's which might be confusing to the general public.

A spiderverse like movie would be perfect for introducing all 5 canon Robin's.

----------


## dietrich

> *I KNOW THE SERIE... But after some time. I forgot the serie existence..* 
> 
> 
> New trinity..
> 
> new trinity.jpg
> 
> Despite that I am not sure if I like this BAT-Costume for Damian.. 
> 
> I am fine with Raven and I think that Kon needs a cape(not a jacket) to be more superman.


Yeah not a fan of Damian's costume here but I like Conner having a jacket rather than a cape. It set's him apart. I don't Conner looking like every other Superman

----------


## Digifiend

> I feel that a Spider-verse type movie would be the ideal for a Robin's movie that introduces all 5 canon Robins.
> 
> DC has always  trimed down the Robins in outside media because there's too many Robin's which might be confusing to the general public.
> 
> A spiderverse like movie would be perfect for introducing all 5 canon Robin's.


Young Justice seems to be faithfully following the comics regarding the Robins. When Tim was introduced, it was stated he was Dick's (who'd become Nightwing) second replacement, as the first one (Jason Todd) had died. Damian's a baby and they have also used Spoiler, so while only three have held the mantle they have used all five Robins.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

What comic is this image from?

----------


## Aahz

> What comic is this image from?


Justice League Vol.2 #19 from 2013.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Justice League Vol.2 #19 from 2013.


Thanks <3 I liked this page so much.

----------


## Light of Justice

Probably a mention of Damian on newest Action Comic. Bat-theme lunatic haha I expect nothing less from Bendis *sarcasm*. So that means Damian has met Ma and Pa Kent before? I want to see how it went out

----------


## Jackalope89

> Attachment 97451
> 
> Probably a mention of Damian on newest Action Comic. Bat-theme lunatic haha I expect nothing less from Bendis *sarcasm*. So that means Damian has met Ma and Pa Kent before? I want to see how it went out


Well, Bendis keeps spelling Damian's name wrong outside the comics and even had him referred to as a "Hitler" type character. So, more par for the course. Thankfully, it seems his run on the Superman comics is coming to a close.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Ok, I am loost again.

I always see many Jon-Conner brothership fanarts, but I was going to look for the Action Comics and noticed it's the first time I saw then together in canon. And there is not another Jon-Conner Canon in google images too.
Jon and Connor doesn't actually have interaction in the comics?

And after Jon came back to earth being 17, what should I read for follow his stories? I want to know before Jon and Damian see each other again.

><

----------


## Jackalope89

> Ok, I am loost again.
> 
> I always see many Jon-Conner brothership fanarts, but I was going to look for the Action Comics and noticed it's the first time I saw then together in canon. And there is not another Jon-Conner Canon in google images too.
> Jon and Connor doesn't actually have interaction in the comics?
> 
> *And after Jon came back to earth being 17, what should I read for follow his stories? I want to know before Jon and Damian see each other again.
> *
> ><


Are you sure you want to do that?

Because Bendis, formerly of Marvel Comics, took over the Super comics from Action Comics 1000 on. And let's just say that other than getting Superman's "voice", and generally having good artists, Bendis has done a botch job. Especially with the Super Sons. Jon is now barely even a shell of him former self (in that he has no character, other than being Clark Jr.), and Damian...

Well, the less said about Bendis' Damian the better.

----------


## Astralabius

> Are you sure you want to do that?
> 
> Because Bendis, formerly of Marvel Comics, took over the Super comics from Action Comics 1000 on. And let's just say that other than getting Superman's "voice", and generally having good artists, Bendis has done a botch job. Especially with the Super Sons. Jon is now barely even a shell of him former self (in that he has no character, other than being Clark Jr.), and Damian...
> 
> Well, the less said about Bendis' Damian the better.


I would pay Bendis to stop attempting to write Damian.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Ok, I am loost again.
> 
> I always see many Jon-Conner brothership fanarts, but I was going to look for the Action Comics and noticed it's the first time I saw then together in canon. And there is not another Jon-Conner Canon in google images too.
> Jon and Connor doesn't actually have interaction in the comics?
> 
> And after Jon came back to earth being 17, what should I read for follow his stories? I want to know before Jon and Damian see each other again.
> 
> ><


I think Jon's saga start's on Superman #7 until #16. However, I barely recognize that Jon.  What makes Jon different from Clark is that he's more feisty because of Lois's blood and influence. What makes his partnership with Damian successful is because he can mentally stand against Damian and not willing to be pushed around (and because Damian is watered down). However Bendis's character of Jon is, should I say, weak of depth. He was tortured on Planet Volcano with evil version of his Dad for 7 years, yet he came back without any trauma or effect from his terrible experience, just said "don't worry I am fine". He's supposed to be important person on Legion, their predecessor, inspiration, one true Superman, their ultimate guru or something, yet when I read LSOH, he's being pushed around by other Legion member with sentence 'you should watch our orientation presentation, you will know about this' or 'wait till you hear stories about this'. He barely has dialogue on there except voicing his agreement, his excitement, or praising other legions members. Now on the newest issue, his father brought entirely new and unfamiliar person to his family, ad Jon already praised Conner and said that Conner is 'cooler son' than him. It just..... I know fandom often look at Jon as literal angel with personality of happy sunshine (which is definitely not true), but Bendis's version just plain infuriating for me.

Sorry for long reply, and if it's improper for me to rant about Jon on Damian's thread.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I would pay Bendis to stop attempting to write Damian.


For our bad luck, he's still scheduled to write Event Leviathan : Checkmate, and he said on there there's "treat" for Dami*e*n and Talia's fans. I don't know when it will come out though, because every time I want to open newsarama solicitation, +gamesradar site always popped out instead.

----------


## dietrich

> Ok, I am loost again.
> 
> I always see many Jon-Conner brothership fanarts, but I was going to look for the Action Comics and noticed it's the first time I saw then together in canon. And there is not another Jon-Conner Canon in google images too.
> Jon and Connor doesn't actually have interaction in the comics?
> 
> And after Jon came back to earth being 17, what should I read for follow his stories? I want to know before Jon and Damian see each other again.
> 
> ><


If you are looking for comics that show Conner and Jon as brothers that will support the fanart or fanon - Jon/Conner as super bros there aren't any. That Action issue you read. That's it.

They only just met.

There was Supersons of Tomorrow the Story where Tim attempts to kill Jon, but in the story Conner only talked to Clark

----------


## Astralabius

> For our bad luck, he's still scheduled to write Event Leviathan : Checkmate, and he said on there there's "treat" for Dami*e*n and Talia's fans. I don't know when it will come out though, because every time I want to open newsarama solicitation, +gamesradar site always popped out instead.


In an earlier release schedule for July the first issue was supposed to come out June 2nd. As far as I know that hasn't happened, it's not on the updated schedule and I don't remember seeing a solicitation for it for August. The Manhunter book that was supposed to come out for this event was also cancelled, permanently from my understanding. No idea what DC is doing with this, but I guess they changed some plans.

----------


## Astralabius

> I think Jon's saga start's on Superman #7 until #16. However, I barely recognize that Jon.  What makes Jon different from Clark is that he's more feisty because of Lois's blood and influence. What makes his partnership with Damian successful is because he can mentally stand against Damian and not willing to be pushed around (and because Damian is watered down). However Bendis's character of Jon is, should I say, weak of depth. He was tortured on Planet Volcano with evil version of his Dad for 7 years, yet he came back without any trauma or effect from his terrible experience, just said "don't worry I am fine". He's supposed to be important person on Legion, their predecessor, inspiration, one true Superman, their ultimate guru or something, yet when I read LSOH, he's being pushed around by other Legion member with sentence 'you should watch our orientation presentation, you will know about this' or 'wait till you hear stories about this'. He barely has dialogue on there except voicing his agreement, his excitement, or praising other legions members. Now on the newest issue, his father brought entirely new and unfamiliar person to his family, ad Jon already praised Conner and said that Conner is 'cooler son' than him. It just..... I know fandom often look at Jon as literal angel with personality of happy sunshine (which is definitely not true), but Bendis's version just plain infuriating for me.
> 
> Sorry for long reply, and if it's improper for me to rant about Jon on Damian's thread.


I only looked at Losh #3, but I think #6 came out this week, has Jon finally watched this orientation presentation they kept going on and on about?

----------


## sifighter

Well if it helps here’s a link to the textless preview for DCeased Dead Planet with a now older Damian as Batman whooping some aliens.

https://www.gamesradar.com/rememberi...-1-first-look/

----------


## sifighter

We have seen most of the other preview art so I thought I would at least post the brand new ones that feature Damian, also it meets exactly the three image limit.

ETMgQdkEYcAyfbDBqWTnda-1920-80.jpg

9avh9ZkQDrjwRTMTJcX8Hb-1920-80.jpg

PW5uqopZeJQaDuFAMNBnGd-1920-80.jpg

----------


## Light of Justice

> I only looked at Losh #3, but I think #6 came out this week, has Jon finally watched this orientation presentation they kept going on and on about?


He watched the orientation on issue 4, but he was stopped in the middle of his orientation because trident problem stuff. The orientation that Jon already watched explained the origin of other legion member like Imra, Garth, and Rokk. But because I only care about Jon and possible future of Damian on LOSH, that orientation part was just wasting my time. Now on issue #6 the trident problem is already resolved, hope Jon's orientation will be resumed, and we will know what exactly happened that makes Damian deserved to be called 'baby Hitler'.

----------


## dietrich

> We have seen most of the other preview art so I thought I would at least post the brand new ones that feature Damian, also it meets exactly the three image limit.
> 
> ETMgQdkEYcAyfbDBqWTnda-1920-80.jpg
> 
> 9avh9ZkQDrjwRTMTJcX8Hb-1920-80.jpg
> 
> PW5uqopZeJQaDuFAMNBnGd-1920-80.jpg


This looks so good. I'm glad Taylor is interested in Damian. There's a lot of politics behind the scenes at DC.
Bendis has it in for Damian and has made no attempt at hiding it. Glass oi whatever. The guy is pretty abhorrent and has just been the worst thing to Happen to Damian ever. How can one writer single handedly set back the growth it took nearly 400 comicx appearances to build up, 

Thankfully Bendis is a crap seller. Glass is a crap seller and he's leaving. Thing's might be looking up for the character.

I've got something fun to look forward to thanks to Taylor.
Dead Planet is already looking sick! Can't wait. 

*spoilers:*
 I was bummed at Black Adam's faith. I was hoping that he might join up with the heroes.

*end of spoilers*

----------


## dietrich

Anyone manage to catch one of the various WB JLD:AW watch Parties yet?

----------


## Astralabius

> We have seen most of the other preview art so I thought I would at least post the brand new ones that feature Damian, also it meets exactly the three image limit.
> 
> ETMgQdkEYcAyfbDBqWTnda-1920-80.jpg
> 
> 9avh9ZkQDrjwRTMTJcX8Hb-1920-80.jpg
> 
> PW5uqopZeJQaDuFAMNBnGd-1920-80.jpg


Looks good! It's kinda a shame that out of continuity stories are the only content with Damian in it that I'm looking forward to right now tho.

----------


## Astralabius

> He watched the orientation on issue 4, but he was stopped in the middle of his orientation because trident problem stuff. The orientation that Jon already watched explained the origin of other legion member like Imra, Garth, and Rokk. But because I only care about Jon and possible future of Damian on LOSH, that orientation part was just wasting my time. Now on issue #6 the trident problem is already resolved, hope Jon's orientation will be resumed, and we will know what exactly happened that makes Damian deserved to be called 'baby Hitler'.


Six issues in and he hasn't even seen the entire orientation presentation? Okay...
Is this book supposed to be 12 issues long or is it unlimited? Even now when I hear people talk about this book nobody seems to truly know where the plot is going and if this is already the mid point I wonder if Bendis even has a plan for this book.

----------


## Astralabius

> This looks so good. I'm glad Taylor is interested in Damian. There's a lot of politics behind the scenes at DC.
> Bendis has it in for Damian and has made no attempt at hiding it. Glass oi whatever. The guy is pretty abhorrent and has just been the worst thing to Happen to Damian ever. How can one writer single handedly set back the growth it took nearly 400 comicx appearances to build up, 
> 
> Thankfully Bendis is a crap seller. Glass is a crap seller and he's leaving. Thing's might be looking up for the character.
> 
> I've got something fun to look forward to thanks to Taylor.
> Dead Planet is already looking sick! Can't wait. 
> 
> *spoilers:*
> ...


The problem with the secret prison, brainwashing and potentially killing criminals again stuff is that if Damian crosses those lines, especially the last one, that all the things we thought he learned in the previous books didn't mean anything.
This isn't like the Nobody situation where Damian did kill someone, but only did it because he wanted to protect his family. This time Damian seems to go back to his League ways. Which means that even if Damian eventually relearns that killing criminals is wrong it won't really mean anything. The readers know he could cross the line again and the characters would probably know that to.
It breaks Damian's character arc.

And yes, I know comic characters regress all the time, Bruce keeps relearning to not push people away yadayadayada, but that's not the same. Bruce doesn't stop being a hero because of that. Being nice to his friends and family is not the core of his character. Damian trying to be a better person however is.

----------


## Light of Justice

> The problem with the secret prison, brainwashing and potentially killing criminals again stuff is that if Damian crosses those lines, especially the last one, that all the things we thought he learned in the previous books didn't mean anything.
> This isn't like the Nobody situation where Damian did kill someone, but only did it because he wanted to protect his family. This time Damian seems to go back to his League ways. Which means that even if Damian eventually relearns that killing criminals is wrong it won't really mean anything. The readers know he could cross the line again and the characters would probably know that to.
> It breaks Damian's character arc.
> 
> And yes, I know comic characters regress all the time, Bruce keeps relearning to not push people away yadayadayada, but that's not the same. Bruce doesn't stop being a hero because of that. Being nice to his friends and family is not the core of his character. Damian trying to be a better person however is.


I think DC want Damian to have constant struggle between Batman No Killing and Al Ghul Mercilessly Killing rule as his main conflict which they will repeated for him many, many times. Just like Raven's countless battle with Trigon, or Starfire with Blackfire. 

If it's true, definitely disapprove that plan.

----------


## Astralabius

> I think DC want Damian to have constant struggle between Batman No Killing and Al Ghul Mercilessly Killing rule as his main conflict which they will repeated for him many, many times. Just like Raven's countless battle with Trigon, or Starfire with Blackfire. 
> 
> If it's true, definitely disapprove that plan.


I find "Boy was raised to be an evil world leader but tries his hardest to be a hero" a much more compelling and inspiring story. Killing will never be seen as heroic in a Batman comic and since Damian is Bruce's bio son his chances of getting away from Batman comics are basically zero.

----------


## dietrich

> The problem with the secret prison, brainwashing and potentially killing criminals again stuff is that if Damian crosses those lines, especially the last one, that all the things we thought he learned in the previous books didn't mean anything.
> This isn't like the Nobody situation where Damian did kill someone, but only did it because he wanted to protect his family. This time Damian seems to go back to his League ways. Which means that even if Damian eventually relearns that killing criminals is wrong it won't really mean anything. The readers know he could cross the line again and the characters would probably know that to.
> It breaks Damian's character arc.
> 
> And yes, I know comic characters regress all the time, Bruce keeps relearning to not push people away yadayadayada, but that's not the same. Bruce doesn't stop being a hero because of that. Being nice to his friends and family is not the core of his character. Damian trying to be a better person however is.


Yep I agree. I was hoping for the longest time that Glass was just challenging Damian. Progress and development isn't always forward.
I don't mind the Prison, Ihave issues with the mind wiping. All these are thing's we've seen better and more experienced heroes do. Even the ones who don't have the luxary of being only human.

I don't even mind heroes killing nor do I mind grown Damian who is an anti-hero but Damian should remain true to his ideology/direction of his story or his beliefs.

Damian believes that innocent people should be protected, shouldn't suffer and he's willing to die for that.
His direction is redemption and Proving that his nature is heroic and good.

He isn't just an Al Ghul nor is he just a Wayne. Damian is something different. He is Damian so I'm cool with him being more pragmatic than Bruce and more conventionally Heroic than the Al Ghul's [they are eco terrorists so ...]

Glass however hasn't given us reason enough for Damian to change direction. He is just doing because reasons which is bad.

I don't normally hate writers since they are only creating in an attempt to entertain but Glass seems to be malicious and deliberate in what he is doing. He isn't creating to entertain. It feels more like he is tearing down on purpose.

However Glass is leaving and DC's office's are full of writers who are keen to use Damian in a positive manner. So what ever he destroys will hopefully get fixed in time. look at Injustice Damian or Animated universe Damian.

----------


## adrikito

> I would pay Bendis to stop attempting to write Damian.


Same here.




> We have seen most of the other preview art so I thought I would at least post the brand new ones that feature Damian, also it meets exactly the three image limit.
> 
> Attachment 97472
> 
> Attachment 97473
> 
> Attachment 97474


What happened here? The humans affected for the Antilife Equation mutated into these monsters years later?

----------


## Astralabius

> Same here.
> 
> 
> 
> What happened here? The humans affected for the Antilife Equation mutated into these monsters years later?


It's probably just a random alien threat to showcase the new Justice League in action at the start of the story.

----------


## Katana500

Place your bets which of the new Trinity will sacrifice themselves and become a zombie! 

Im super looking forward to Dead Planet!

----------


## Fergus

> Place your bets which of the new Trinity will sacrifice themselves and become a zombie! 
> 
> Im super looking forward to Dead Planet!


cassie. She's the odd one out.

----------


## Astralabius

> However Glass is leaving and DC's office's are full of writers who are keen to use Damian in a positive manner. So what ever he destroys will hopefully get fixed in time. look at Injustice Damian or Animated universe Damian.


Hopefully. It was pretty weird how Damian acted completely different from Glass' Damian in every other title he showed up in during Glass' run.
Damian was very loyal to Bruce in every story I can think of.

----------


## DragonPiece

someone asked Tynion if Damian will be in Joker War and here is what he said "Sorry! Damian's role in Gotham is being shaped by the events of Teen Titans, but we've got a larger plan about when he'll come back in, strong to the Bat-Books. We've got a big, big plan."

https://twitter.com/JamesTheFourth/s...68824356847626


I feel like he is going to leave the bat family..

----------


## Frontier

> someone asked Tynion if Damian will be in Joker War and here is what he said "Sorry! Damian's role in Gotham is being shaped by the events of Teen Titans, but we've got a larger plan about when he'll come back in, strong to the Bat-Books. We've got a big, big plan."
> 
> https://twitter.com/JamesTheFourth/s...68824356847626
> 
> 
> I feel like he is going to leave the bat family..


Well, the TT solicits keep teasing him losing the Robin identity...

----------


## Digifiend

> For our bad luck, he's still scheduled to write Event Leviathan : Checkmate, and he said on there there's "treat" for Dami*e*n and Talia's fans. I don't know when it will come out though, because every time I want to open newsarama solicitation, +gamesradar site always popped out instead.


That's because Newsarama has been deleted, and it's staff moved to GamesRadar+ where they're pretending to keep the brand active. With the archive gone, annoying ads, and a prompt to go to the UK site whenever I click on an American link, Newsarama is effectively dead.  :Mad: 

Use CBR or AIPT instead.

----------


## Wingin' It

> Well, the TT solicits keep teasing him losing the Robin identity...


I really hope this doesn't happen. I already have suspicions that we aren't going to see Damian in Nightwing 73 when he fights the "people he loves the most", since Tynion is determined to keep him largely out of Joker War. 

I don't mean to be tinfoil-hat-y, but I know that Tynion prefers Tim by far and it really colors his writing of the other Robins. I am cautious about how he's going to handle the character in future batbooks, and I would dislike it tremendously if Damian was ousted from the role for any reason.

1. I feel Damian has been written OOC in Glass' Teen Titans and his character has been regressed for the sake of the narrative.

2. I don't want to see any other Robins, to be honest. Five is already a LOT, and symbolically Damian should be the last with how he mirrors Dick, unless it's some distant future where one of Dick or Damian's kids takes up the role.

3. I like Bruce as a character but I think he's been written the past few years as utterly negligent of Damian's wellbeing, from disregarding his own son's life to send him into Gotham against Thomas Wayne alone, to not dealing with the fallout of Damian's guilt of indirectly causing Alfred's death on Bruce's order and now not being there for him when he's distraught enough to kill the KGBeast for hurting Dick. I know that he's old enough to make his own choices, but I can't help but read all of these things and feel like he's painfully without guidance or support right now without his father, Jon, Alfred or Dick. Taking Robin away from Damian would further demonstrate that he can't meet this kid's needs.

(I also hate the idea that Bruce gets to decide who is Robin. It was Dick's mantle and he chose Damian. Bruce can decide not to be his partner in the field, which he hasn't really been since the New52, but he shouldn't be able to prevent Robin as a solo hero).

Also, hello. Long time lurker but (second) time posting here.

----------


## dietrich

> I really hope this doesn't happen. I already have suspicions that we aren't going to see Damian in Nightwing 73 when he fights the "people he loves the most", since Tynion is determined to keep him largely out of Joker War. 
> 
> I don't mean to be tinfoil-hat-y, but I know that Tynion prefers Tim by far and it really colors his writing of the other Robins. I am cautious about how he's going to handle the character in future batbooks, and I would dislike it tremendously if Damian was ousted from the role for any reason.
> 
> 1. I feel Damian has been written OOC in Glass' Teen Titans and his character has been regressed for the sake of the narrative.
> 
> 2. I don't want to see any other Robins, to be honest. Five is already a LOT, and symbolically Damian should be the last with how he mirrors Dick, unless it's some distant future where one of Dick or Damian's kids takes up the role.
> 
> 3. I like Bruce as a character but I think he's been written the past few years as utterly negligent of Damian's wellbeing, from disregarding his own son's life to send him into Gotham against Thomas Wayne alone, to not dealing with the fallout of Damian's guilt of indirectly causing Alfred's death on Bruce's order and now not being there for him when he's distraught enough to kill the KGBeast for hurting Dick. I know that he's old enough to make his own choices, but I can't help but read all of these things and feel like he's painfully without guidance or support right now without his father, Jon, Alfred or Dick. Taking Robin away from Damian would further demonstrate that he can't meet this kid's needs.
> ...



Welcome to the Damian Wayne Appreciation Thread. It's great to have you join us.

Yeah it doesn't sound good at all for Damian which is shit.

The worst part is that he's about to lose this in a forced way. He has been acting OCc . That's the thin g that stings. If Damian was doing this for a reason that I could buy then I'd say fuck it and support him. However he isn't being himself.

Anyway not long now and we'll see what goes down

----------


## dietrich

I still don't think Damian is losing Robin. I can see him grounded for sometime or falling out with Bruce where he walks away disillusioned but I don't believe the company is about to change Robin.

----------


## Astralabius

> I still don't think Damian is losing Robin. I can see him grounded for sometime or falling out with Bruce where he walks away disillusioned but I don't believe the company is about to change Robin.


Tynion answered a question on twitter about Damian's participation in Joker War:

"Sorry! Damian's role in Gotham is being shaped by the events of Teen Titans, but we've got a larger plan about when he'll come back in, strong to the Bat-books. We've got a big, big plan."

Sounds like unlike basically every other member of the bat-family, aside from Tim as far as I know, Damian won't be a part of Joker War.

I think Tynion meant well when he wrote this tweet, but after the last few years the words "big, big" plans cause me more anxiety than excitement.

----------


## Astralabius

Considering the scope of Joker War I doubt being grounded would be enough to keep Damian from taking part in Joker War. I fear it's a lot more serious.
That doesn't mean DC is immediately going to replace him with a new Robin. But not being replaced also doesn't mean he won't be fired.

----------


## DragonPiece

> Tynion answered a question on twitter about Damian's participation in Joker War:
> 
> "Sorry! Damian's role in Gotham is being shaped by the events of Teen Titans, but we've got a larger plan about when he'll come back in, strong to the Bat-books. We've got a big, big plan."
> 
> Sounds like unlike basically every other member of the bat-family, aside from Tim as far as I know, Damian won't be a part of Joker War.
> 
> I think Tynion meant well when he wrote this tweet, but after the last few years the words "big, big" plans cause me more anxiety than excitement.


Yeah, I posted that tweet on the last page, it's interesting for sure.

----------


## Morgoth

I wonder, what "big, big plan" Tynion has for Damian. I just hope it won't end up turning him into villain.
If there was no information that 5G is dead, I would have an interesting assumption about this) But it would be too optimistic.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Same here.
> 
> 
> 
> What happened here? The humans affected for the Antilife Equation mutated into these monsters years later?


This is supposed to be Damian :/ ? I wished a different size proportions, I like the slim ninja body, more like Talia family. But loved the boots, Damian keeoing this is cute.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> The problem with the secret prison, brainwashing and potentially killing criminals again stuff is that if Damian crosses those lines, especially the last one, that all the things we thought he learned in the previous books didn't mean anything.
> This isn't like the Nobody situation where Damian did kill someone, but only did it because he wanted to protect his family. This time Damian seems to go back to his League ways. Which means that even if Damian eventually relearns that killing criminals is wrong it won't really mean anything. The readers know he could cross the line again and the characters would probably know that to.
> It breaks Damian's character arc.
> 
> And yes, I know comic characters regress all the time, Bruce keeps relearning to not push people away yadayadayada, but that's not the same. Bruce doesn't stop being a hero because of that. Being nice to his friends and family is not the core of his character. Damian trying to be a better person however is.


Killing necessarily makes Damian a Vilain? I don't follow others comics too much, but Supeman/Wonderwoman kill, right? And if there is a Allien Vilain, still being a humanoid with itteligence and being forced fight in a war butman don't say "we don't kill", I know it's different in some ways, but he would not kill a Alian raised in earth, so this "no killing rule" is fake.

And what is "no meta in Gothan" politcs? It's sounds like "let's build a wall for keep metas way of my city".

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Justice League Vol.2 #19 from 2013.


thank you ^^

----------


## Digifiend

> Tynion answered a question on twitter about Damian's participation in Joker War:
> 
> "Sorry! Damian's role in Gotham is being shaped by the events of Teen Titans, but we've got a larger plan about when he'll come back in, strong to the Bat-books. We've got a big, big plan."
> 
> Sounds like unlike basically every other member of the bat-family, aside from Tim as far as I know, Damian won't be a part of Joker War.
> 
> I think Tynion meant well when he wrote this tweet, but after the last few years the words "big, big" plans cause me more anxiety than excitement.


He's going missing. Crush is the new leader of the Teen Titans!


TEEN TITANS #45
written by ROBBIE THOMPSON
art by EDUARDO PANSICA
cover by BERNARD CHANG
variant cover by KHARY RANDOLPH
ON SALE 09/15/20
$3.99 US | 32 PAGES | FC | DC
After the shocking events of last month’s Teen Titans Annual, Crush has been named the new leader of the Teen Titans. With Damian Wayne missing, can Crush hold the teen team together? And now that she’s in charge, which villains will Lobo’s daughter go after first? And will Red Arrow, Kid Flash, and Roundhouse follow their hotheaded new leader into battle?

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I think Jon's saga start's on Superman #7 until #16. However, I barely recognize that Jon.  What makes Jon different from Clark is that he's more feisty because of Lois's blood and influence. What makes his partnership with Damian successful is because he can mentally stand against Damian and not willing to be pushed around (and because Damian is watered down). However Bendis's character of Jon is, should I say, weak of depth. He was tortured on Planet Volcano with evil version of his Dad for 7 years, yet he came back without any trauma or effect from his terrible experience, just said "don't worry I am fine". He's supposed to be important person on Legion, their predecessor, inspiration, one true Superman, their ultimate guru or something, yet when I read LSOH, he's being pushed around by other Legion member with sentence 'you should watch our orientation presentation, you will know about this' or 'wait till you hear stories about this'. He barely has dialogue on there except voicing his agreement, his excitement, or praising other legions members. Now on the newest issue, his father brought entirely new and unfamiliar person to his family, ad Jon already praised Conner and said that Conner is 'cooler son' than him. It just..... I know fandom often look at Jon as literal angel with personality of happy sunshine (which is definitely not true), but Bendis's version just plain infuriating for me.
> 
> Sorry for long reply, and if it's improper for me to rant about Jon on Damian's thread.


Thanks, I will read just for see he a little more  :Smile: 

I think Jon is trying to act like that seven years have been passed and now he should give his best and be a good son, hero, person.
Like steven in future, he just keep saying every thing is normal and he is ok, but in some point will be reveled he is angry for what happened, is in too much pain and need help.

----------


## Astralabius

> Killing necessarily makes Damian a Vilain? I don't follow others comics too much, but Supeman/Wonderwoman kill, right? And if there is a Allien Vilain, still being a humanoid with itteligence and being forced fight in a war butman don't say "we don't kill", I know it's different in some ways, but he would not kill a Alian raised in earth, so this "no killing rule" is fake.
> 
> And what is "no meta in Gothan" politcs? It's sounds like "let's build a wall for keep metas way of my city".


In general the heroes of the Justice League don't kill. One of Batman's most important rules is his no-kill rule, especially when it comes to humans. Damian is a Batman character. If Damian starts killing criminals again he will probably treated as some kind of villain in a Batman comic.

----------


## Astralabius

--------------

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> He's going missing. Crush is the new leader of the Teen Titans!
> 
> 
> TEEN TITANS #45
> written by ROBBIE THOMPSON
> art by EDUARDO PANSICA
> cover by BERNARD CHANG
> variant cover by KHARY RANDOLPH
> ON SALE 09/15/20
> ...


I would NEVER want crush to be a leader of nothing, I don't like enything about her. What do you guys like in Crush?

----------


## Light of Justice

> He's going missing. Crush is the new leader of the Teen Titans!
> 
> 
> TEEN TITANS #45
> written by ROBBIE THOMPSON
> art by EDUARDO PANSICA
> cover by BERNARD CHANG
> variant cover by KHARY RANDOLPH
> ON SALE 09/15/20
> ...



Seriously Thompson, Tommy, you just handle him for like 3 issues
, and you already lost him???!!! Shame on you!

All jokes aside, I wonder why Crush is the one who named new leader? I thought if Damian is gone, Emiko will take his place as leader. Or at least Kid Flash. I mean, if we look at strategic ability, Emiko is maybe the best after Damian. And Kid Flash is happy-friendly guy who can make the team put together, and he's already best friend with Roundhouse and Emiko is his potential girlfriend. So why Crush? Sure, Crush is the strongest out of them maybe, but she's not exactly team or leader material. Except Djinn, she barely has interaction with other members. I remember, when Roundhouse 'died' and Damian and Kid Flash berated themselves for it, she said that his death was just common thing that happened on superhero lives. She's not exactly get along with Emiko, and she once called Kid Flash Damian's boyfriend or something.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> If you are looking for comics that show Conner and Jon as brothers that will support the fanart or fanon - Jon/Conner as super bros there aren't any. That Action issue you read. That's it.
> 
> They only just met.
> 
> There was Supersons of Tomorrow the Story where Tim attempts to kill Jon, but in the story Conner only talked to Clark


"Such a disappointment" This "super bros" had many potation :/ I think peoples beside me would enjoy this too.
I have this comic, but I thought he needed to be a unrecognizable Conner for everybody and Jon and Conner had their own adventures... Writing this right now I noticed I just belived in what I wanted without any reason =_= .
Now I want a "Super Bros" or "Super Boy's" special too, but Jon with 10 years.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

About Damian: I just can't put shoulders armors for a stetic, dinamic reason; I want a new mask too.
about Jon: He needs to keep the bandana or have another pretty strong element in head/ face.

There is one more thing,
Pedido de opinião Jon 2.jpg
This is going to be make in BlackWhite.


*** So they are have a adventure like when Damian is with TT and Jon learned how to fly recently. This is a little after super sons adventures (it's a good reference).
I need it's look possible, and Jon is kind "I want to try this new outfit this night, fun" and Damian "I want a more efficiently performance and blablabla"

----------


## dietrich

> He's going missing. Crush is the new leader of the Teen Titans!
> 
> 
> TEEN TITANS #45
> written by ROBBIE THOMPSON
> art by EDUARDO PANSICA
> cover by BERNARD CHANG
> variant cover by KHARY RANDOLPH
> ON SALE 09/15/20
> ...


Oh Wow Crush is the new Leader1? The only one of them that can be found being Promoted on Glass's Social media?!
Colour me surprised.

Yeah I'm done with this

----------


## dietrich

Killing doesn't make Damian a Villain.
JL heroes will kill, Alfred will kill
batman is fine with killing
batman is fine with killing so long as it's outside of Gotham
Red Hood used to kill

So nope killing doesn't make Damian a villain

----------


## Fergus

The saddest thing about Damian's tenure as Robin is that he's never had one without pretenders snapping at his ankles.

can we just let this kid have what the others had. Dick and Tim had decades of peaceful tenure Jason had his time but when it's Damian's time to fill the role we had Duke and we have Tim Robin forever Drake and his fans not letting the kid do his thing.

----------


## Fergus

> He's going missing. Crush is the new leader of the Teen Titans!
> 
> 
> TEEN TITANS #45
> written by ROBBIE THOMPSON
> art by EDUARDO PANSICA
> cover by BERNARD CHANG
> variant cover by KHARY RANDOLPH
> ON SALE 09/15/20
> ...


lolol This is a joke right? Glass is delusional. The Main Man can barely make not to talk about this knock off.

----------


## Light of Justice

> About Damian: I just can't put shoulders armors for a stetic, dinamic reason; I want a new mask too.
> about Jon: He needs to keep the bandana or have another pretty strong element in head/ face.
> 
> There is one more thing,
> Attachment 97510
> This is going to be make in BlackWhite.


My suggestion is I don't think put dark color on Jon, or Supes in general, is good idea. Supes are always annoyingly bright. Except Conner, but he has his roles as edgy teenager. i think it's better if his cape is full red instead red and black.
Bandana is good, but if you want pretty strong element in head/ face, how about Bendis style scar on his cheek? Unless you are uncomfortable to put scar on 10 years old child..

----------


## Light of Justice

> Oh Wow Crush is the new Leader1? The only one of them that can be found being Promoted on Glass's Social media?!
> Colour me surprised.
> 
> Yeah I'm done with this


What is the name of Glass's social media account? I can't find him, and I WANT TO FIND HIM.

----------


## Astralabius

> Killing doesn't make Damian a Villain.
> JL heroes will kill, Alfred will kill
> batman is fine with killing
> batman is fine with killing so long as it's outside of Gotham
> Red Hood used to kill
> 
> So nope killing doesn't make Damian a villain


If you want to believe that...

----------


## Fergus

> Tynion answered a question on twitter about Damian's participation in Joker War:
> 
> "Sorry! Damian's role in Gotham is being shaped by the events of Teen Titans, but we've got a larger plan about when he'll come back in, strong to the Bat-books. We've got a big, big plan."
> 
> Sounds like unlike basically every other member of the bat-family, aside from Tim as far as I know, Damian won't be a part of Joker War.
> 
> I think Tynion meant well when he wrote this tweet, but after the last few years the words "big, big" plans cause me more anxiety than excitement.


That's a shame. Damian and joker always have amazing banter. I loved DOTf where Damian broke Joker just with his words. Legendary stuff Also doesn't make much sense that joker wouldn't target the Robin who he acknowledged was Different from the rest.

----------


## Fergus

> If you want to believe that...


Killing makes a hero an anti-hero

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> The saddest thing about Damian's tenure as Robin is that he's never had one without pretenders snapping at his ankles.
> 
> can we just let this kid have what the others had. Dick and Tim had decades of peaceful tenure Jason had his time but when it's Damian's time to fill the role we had Duke and we have Tim Robin forever Drake and his fans not letting the kid do his thing.


Sorry >< "without pretenders snapping at his ankles" ehat this means? I can't found a translation that makes senses in google.

Yes, Damian have been Robin for 3 years (maybe 4) in comics, He is so alone again and nobody cares about doing something. I think it's easy take Damian out when he wants to give up because nobody will ask he for stay and keep by him side. Dick has no memory and Jon know nothing about what is happening; Alfred is dead; Tim and Jason don't care; other Batfamily members never had something with Damian; the others TT care even less; Bruce is not capable to handle feelings.

----------


## Morgoth

About Joker War, in description for Nightwing issue there was mention of "Robins", who will fight brainwashed Dick. Given that Jason has not been associated with this nickname for a long time, it seems to me that it's about Damian and Tim. So, I think Damian will be there, just the role will be small, break into the battle at the end. Also it's a good moment to introduce new image.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Killing makes a hero an anti-hero


Yes, but nobody call wonder woman a anti-heroine, when batman don't over reaction with somebody killing... the character can be a good side good hero, instead a anti-hero.

----------


## Blue22

> He's going missing. Crush is the new leader of the Teen Titans!
> 
> 
> TEEN TITANS #45
> written by ROBBIE THOMPSON
> art by EDUARDO PANSICA
> cover by BERNARD CHANG
> variant cover by KHARY RANDOLPH
> ON SALE 09/15/20
> ...


Whelp. First Djinn and now Damian. There go my two reasons for reading.



> 


The green tights on Damian looks better than the black. As for Jon, I love the headband. The blue one specifically. Light blue looks good on him.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> My suggestion is I don't think put dark color on Jon, or Supes in general, is good idea. Supes are always annoyingly bright. Except Conner, but he has his roles as edgy teenager. i think it's better if his cape is full red instead red and black.
> Bandana is good, but if you want pretty strong element in head/ face, how about Bendis style scar on his cheek? Unless you are uncomfortable to put scar on 10 years old child..


I should have been more specific >< This pass in the current universe (before Jon get 17years). So they are have a adventure like when Damian is with TT and Jon learned how to fly recently. This is a little after super sons adventures (it's a good reference).
I need it's look possible, and Jon is kind "I want to try this new outfit this night, fun" and Damian "I want a more efficiently performance and blablabla"

And no problem with 10 years old scar childs in comics.

----------


## Wingin' It

> Killing doesn't make Damian a Villain.
> JL heroes will kill, Alfred will kill
> batman is fine with killing
> batman is fine with killing so long as it's outside of Gotham
> Red Hood used to kill
> 
> So nope killing doesn't make Damian a villain


I know some JL heroes HAVE killed, such as WW and GA, but it's not a common thing by any stretch and is presented as a moral failing most of the time, ex. the Maxwell Lord incident with Diana.

Batman is NOT fine with killing, no matter who or where, in or outside of Gotham. He was even disappointed in Dick for preventing a criminal from being killed when he could have stopped it. It's literally his most defining stance.

Red Hood used to kill, sure, but not anymore, which is why Bruce gave him another chance, agree or disagree on that stance. As soon as he showed willingness to kill again during the Penguin incident, Bruce beat him pretty savagely. 

I agree personally, killing doesn't make Damian a villain in my eyes, but it would act against the development he's had since his introduction. As long as he's a Bat character, which will be always, killing will never be positioned in a morally positive or even justifiable light. It's Batman's world; all other characters are just living in it. 

However, if Damian did kill again, it wouldn't make him irredeemable or something Bruce is unable to forgive. The last time Damian killed a man was in the New52, Nobody, and Bruce certainly didn't disown him for that. I guess it would depend on the context. And the writer. 

What I mean is, whether or not the reader personally agrees, Batman doesn't kill or approve of killing, and especially in Gotham you play by those rules or not at all.

----------


## Astralabius

I doesn't matter if we would consider Damian a villain for killing or not. If DC decides to treat him like one he will be considered a villain in the DC universe.

----------


## Grandmaster_J

Crush being the new leader? I have my doubts on weather the remaining members even choice her or she just appointed herself, and if anything it's the latter; otherwise it would make zero sense as she's not even close to leader material because she's the one that likes to just charge in without thinking the most. Red Arrow or KF should lead in Damian's absence, period. We can't blame Glass anymore because he's done, this is Thompson's doing. 




> She's not exactly get along with Emiko, and she once called Kid Flash Damian's boyfriend or something.


Actually, she gets along quite well with, Emiko as evident from issues #22, #27, #31, and #37. Next to Djinn she's closet to Emi, who would be the one usually keeping Crush sane and calm if Djinn wasn't there. Roundhouse DID get along with Crush as well before the trapping Djinn in her ring, so they might be strain now. Kid Flash is probably the only one left not exactly the best of friends with her. He'll probably reject the idea but do little about it as he tends to do the entire run.

----------


## adrikito

> He's going missing. Crush is the new leader of the Teen Titans!
> 
> 
> TEEN TITANS #45
> written by ROBBIE THOMPSON
> art by EDUARDO PANSICA
> cover by BERNARD CHANG
> variant cover by KHARY RANDOLPH
> ON SALE 09/15/20
> ...


I do not know what to think. Damian and Djinn were my reasons to read this comic and both are out..

Not sure if continue in this for Red Arrow.. She is not the new leader.




> 


This bring me memories. Is almost like return to the day that I saw Rebirth Damian sketches.

I like your Damian design.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Crush being the new leader? I have my doubts on weather the remaining members even choice her or she just appointed herself, and if anything it's the latter; otherwise it would make zero sense as she's not even close to leader material because she's the one that likes to just charge in without thinking the most. Red Arrow or KF should lead in Damian's absence, period. We can't blame Glass anymore because he's done, this is Thompson's doing. 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, she gets along quite well with, Emiko as evident from issues #22, #27, #31, and #37. Next to Djinn she's closet to Emi, who would be the one usually keeping Crush sane and calm if Djinn wasn't there. Roundhouse DID get along with Crush as well before the trapping Djinn in her ring, so they might be strain now. Kid Flash is probably the only one left not exactly the best of friends with her. He'll probably reject the idea but do little about it as he tends to do the entire run.


Sorry, I'm really not great at noticing relationship (either friendship or romance) when it's not very obvious. That's why when on issue 41 we were shown that Emiko loves Kid Flash, I am probably the only one who is shocked even though actually they got many hints on this TT run. On this team, relationships who are obvious enough for me is Crush-Djinn borderline romance, Kid Flash-Roundhouse broship, and Damian-Emiko professional teammate. But when I think deeply again, Emiko and Crush are quite friends with each other. So perhaps that explains this picture :

Screenshot_2020-06-13-15-45-05-094_com.instagram.android (1).jpg

That picture is from TT #44, one issue before issue when Crush is the leader. So there's possibility that Emiko herself who ask Crush to be leader. Even though why will she choose Crush and not Kid Flash when she once admitted that Kid Flash has the most moral ground among them and even asked him for advice is beyond me.

----------


## Digifiend

> Oh Wow Crush is the new Leader1? The only one of them that can be found being Promoted on Glass's Social media?!
> Colour me surprised.
> 
> Yeah I'm done with this





> lolol This is a joke right? Glass is delusional. The Main Man can barely make not to talk about this knock off.


Uh, guys? You do realise Glass has left the book, right? You should be blaming Thompson.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I know some JL heroes HAVE killed, such as WW and GA, but it's not a common thing by any stretch and is presented as a moral failing most of the time, ex. the Maxwell Lord incident with Diana.
> 
> Batman is NOT fine with killing, no matter who or where, in or outside of Gotham. He was even disappointed in Dick for preventing a criminal from being killed when he could have stopped it. It's literally his most defining stance.
> 
> Red Hood used to kill, sure, but not anymore, which is why Bruce gave him another chance, agree or disagree on that stance. As soon as he showed willingness to kill again during the Penguin incident, Bruce beat him pretty savagely. 
> 
> I agree personally, killing doesn't make Damian a villain in my eyes, but it would act against the development he's had since his introduction. As long as he's a Bat character, which will be always, killing will never be positioned in a morally positive or even justifiable light. It's Batman's world; all other characters are just living in it. 
> 
> However, if Damian did kill again, it wouldn't make him irredeemable or something Bruce is unable to forgive. The last time Damian killed a man was in the New52, Nobody, and Bruce certainly didn't disown him for that. I guess it would depend on the context. And the writer. 
> ...


For me, the term of villain is always means one thing, someone who want, will, and intentionally harm innocent people. That's why even Jason's UTRH and Morrison day is not considered a villain for me. And you don't have to kill to be a villain. Someone who abuse childs? Villain. Someone who rape helpless woman? Villain. That's why I'm not very fond of DC's  'definitely no killing' and 'any physical damage is fine as long as it doesn't kill' morale concept. And I think the only thing that prevent Damian from killing villains are Dick's tutelage, his honor and promise to his father. Dick is gone and already on Joker's grasp, and if because TT annual or something before it he lost his respect to Bruce, it's understandable if then he rebels and just follows his own version of justice. 

But yeah, if Damian will kill again, it definitely will create rift between Batman and Damian. Rather, I think it must create rift between Batman and Damian. Some fans of other Robins already berated DC writer because Bruce's reaction of Damian's killing tendencies is rather weak compares to Bruce harsh reaction to other Robins killing (in Dick's case, almost killing and failed to save), something like 'favorite blood son privilege'.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> "However, if Damian did kill again, it wouldn't make him irredeemable or something"


Reading this now I totally agree that Damian killing would be the worst regresses of all. Maybe he get really close and then say "I am not going to do this", DRAMATIC, but I would not know how Damian will go way from comics if this happening, maybe it could be like movie when he goes to Tibet for stay with monks? Lazy.
Maybe Damian have some more solo like "Robin son of Batman". The secret about why He was called "baby Hitler" will define next comics :/ I don't think it's gonna be good for fandom.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I think talk a couple words without fight with this characters don't make this " quite well with them", they are team workers, everybody needs to do this in job, you know? Like saying "good morning,  how are you? Oh, nice.", this is the dynamic of this group, she didn't care if someone DIE, she can't say incentives words unless she is in love.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Sorry, I'm really not great at noticing relationship (either friendship or romance) when it's not very obvious. That's why when on issue 41 we were shown that Emiko loves Kid Flash, I am probably the only one who is shocked even though actually they got many hints on this TT run. On this team, relationships who are obvious enough for me is Crush-Djinn borderline romance, Kid Flash-Roundhouse broship, and Damian-Emiko professional teammate. But when I think deeply again, Emiko and Crush are quite friends with each other. So perhaps that explains this picture :
> 
> Screenshot_2020-06-13-15-45-05-094_com.instagram.android (1).jpg
> 
> That picture is from TT #44, one issue before issue when Crush is the leader. So there's possibility that Emiko herself who ask Crush to be leader. Even though why will she choose Crush and not Kid Flash when she once admitted that Kid Flash has the most moral ground among them and even asked him for advice is beyond me.


It is just a image when Emiko is behind Crush, means nothing. Emiko may ask Crush to be the leader, but still make no sense. No matter how much I think, Crush as TT leader is like Lobo being JL leader.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Thanks, >3<)/ I want he to have elements of my favorite design, that is his Robin debut, but that some one to see know it's not a canon design, so I put this bulletproof vest (super easy to notice in closer scenes), but when this became black white I still think need to be more different. Any suggestion?

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Sorry, I'm really not great at noticing relationship (either friendship or romance) when it's not very obvious. That's why when on issue 41 we were shown that Emiko loves Kid Flash, I am probably the only one who is shocked even though actually they got many hints on this TT run. On this team, relationships who are obvious enough for me is Crush-Djinn borderline romance, Kid Flash-Roundhouse broship, and Damian-Emiko professional teammate. But when I think deeply again, Emiko and Crush are quite friends with each other. So perhaps that explains this picture :
> 
> Screenshot_2020-06-13-15-45-05-094_com.instagram.android (1).jpg
> 
> That picture is from TT #44, one issue before issue when Crush is the leader. So there's possibility that Emiko herself who ask Crush to be leader. Even though why will she choose Crush and not Kid Flash when she once admitted that Kid Flash has the most moral ground among them and even asked him for advice is beyond me.


Still Kid Flash and Emiko relationship was EXCELLENT if you compare with Kid Flash and Raven forced couple. Lol. I think Kid flah don't fit in this group anymore.

----------


## shadow6743

I going to keep reading to see what happens. Crush being the leader of the Teen Titans probably happened because Emiko hasn't been thinking well of herself since the crossover with Deathstroke. Also she unlike KF did go along with Damian's more extreme methods. I kind of look at this way Crush may be the "leader" but Emiko would most likely make tactical decisions for the team. Also since Emiko and Crush get along she probably asked Crush to do it since she didn't feel good enough to lead the team. I will keep reading I got this far and the fact that I can't predict what will happen next is really fun for me.

As many people can tell I am not one of those people who constantly thinks characters have to be in a good place. They can have conflicts with others or themselves. Comics are one of those mediums that often has cyclical nature Damian and Djinn will be back. So I will keep reading.

----------


## dietrich

Some positive Damian stories. I'm going to splash out on both the Special movie Variant [V for Vendetta] above and the normal cover. put my TT funds to Better use.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Some positive Damian stories. I'm going to splash out on both the Special movie Variant [V for Vendetta] above and the normal cover. put my TT funds to Better use.


Great idea.

Loving the Kyrptonite sword. I see Tom Taylor Is a fan of JLD AW

----------


## dietrich

> Uh, guys? You do realise Glass has left the book, right? You should be blaming Thompson.


Uh you do realise this is still Glass' story?

uh You do realise that this has been set up way before Thompson ever got this gig?

I'm not going to blame a writer for a story they don't have ownership of. That's like Blaming City of Bane on Tynion.

Thompson has zero say here he's just completing a story he walked into so plz less of that.

----------


## dietrich

> Great idea.
> 
> Loving the Kyrptonite sword. I see Tom Taylor Is a fan of JLD AW


my one gripe is that Damibat looks so much like Brucebat

----------


## Rebeca Armus

My Damian's wish list.

Offspring Heroes - A group with Damian, Jon, Maya, and other two heroes. (It's just like TT, but with other name).
Offspring heroes - Besties Special - It's Damian, Damian's pets, including Jerry the Turkey, and BB.
Super Sons - with Damian and Jon confessing love, with a ending that is not "ohh, we did it, but let's act like don't happened and suffer in silence and prolong this for one decade".

I am in the "negation" phase. Early I was in the "rage" phase.

----------


## Restingvoice

Remind me people who are still reading (which is not me, lol)

How does the difference of portrayal between Damian in Teen Titans, Justice League, Leviathan, Batman and Detective? Especially the latest appearances
- He still angry at Batman for whatever happened in No Justice that caused his actions in Teen Titans?
- He still blamed himself for Alfred's death?
- Bruce still hasn't done anything about that?
- He still begrudgingly working with Batman or Batfam when necessary?

Mine follow up question would be his relationship with Jason following Leviathan and their meeting in Teen Titans Annual, but that can wait.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Remind me people who are still reading (which is not me, lol)
> 
> How does the difference of portrayal between Damian in Teen Titans, Justice League, Leviathan, Batman and Detective? Especially the latest appearances
> - He still angry at Batman for whatever happened in No Justice that caused his actions in Teen Titans?
> - He still blamed himself for Alfred's death?
> - Bruce still hasn't done anything about that?
> - He still begrudgingly working with Batman or Batfam when necessary?
> 
> Mine follow up question would be his relationship with Jason following Leviathan and their meeting in Teen Titans Annual, but that can wait.


Okay, it seems like this TT run want to establish the fact that between Batman and Damian collision, Damian IS the angry side, Damian IS the closed side, like Batman already tried his best but Damian rebels and become secretive and turn evil yadda yadda. 

This is Damian from Detective Comic

Look who's there for his loved one's birthday Bruce...

This is Damian from Batman City of Bane

The 'still angry' Damian was willing to be literal sacrifice when Bruce and Selina had couple yoga on beach, and still acknowledge Bruce as family

This is Damian from Nightwing annual 2

The 'rebellious' and 'still angry' Damian defended Bruce when Dick was angry to Bruce because his 'shock therapy', something that Damian think it's not a good idea and looking that they still did it, apparently Bruce ignored his opinion

----------


## Light of Justice

This is Damian from... honestly I forgot where this is come from hehehe

13 years old Damian, came home to eat or take a rest from mission maybe, looked at the refrigerator and deduced that Bruce didn't take care of himself, left that note because he was worried about his father. What an evil son indeed..

And *THIS IS* what Bruce did all this time.



On Alfred R.I.P, Damian is maybe the only one who didn't blame Bruce for what happened (Ric isn't count). He wasn't even angry at Bruce even though he literally watched with his own eyes how Bane broke Alfred's neck, how it was sound, and that's because he just follow Bruce's plan. He even take the blame to himself, and beat himself for it.

That's why I swear.... IF they will make it as if Damian is the one who has FULL FAULT on their collision, just like they did about TT's brainwashing method, if they make Damian the rebel one, the angry one, the evil one, IF whatever Bruce will do on annual that makes Damian lost his Robin title and literally MISSING is justified, and they say that it's what Damian DESERVE..... well DC, before I was your hater solely because of my distaste of outside panty, now it looks like I will have solid reason for my hatred

----------


## Restingvoice

Okay so to summarize everything, Damian _is_ angry at Bruce, but he doesn't want to lose Dick so he approves of Bruce's method, and he still places Alfred's life in higher priority than his own life and anger at Bruce, and he's there for Bruce's birthday because his anger was at his method and it doesn't mean he hates him personally (That's the feud, right? He thinks Bruce's method is not enough?).

----------


## Morgoth

Given that this is already inevitable, now the most important thing is that this should be Damian's decision. It has to be his decision, no Bruce's. Because if Batman will just stupidly kick him out, then that's it, finish. After that, looking at him as a normal character simply won't be possible. 
And there is still a moment that could smooth the corners between these two. I read the assumption a few days ago that maybe all of this description of Annual can actually be one complete misleading, and in fact Damian will meet there not with Bruce, but with Batman Who Laughs. And this the actual reason why Damian is considered missing and doesn't appear in Joker War, because BWL abducted him and turned into Robin King, whom, for some reason, Snyder did not show in anticipation of Death Metal and said that his identity was hiding intentionally, in order to surprise readers. So maybe that's can be the reason. It is, of course, far-fetched, but on the other hand Death Metal by that time will already be underway and there should be some kind of connection. And so far nothing is known about Damian in this event, although he should appear.

----------


## shadow6743

Well Thompson who is the one who wrote the Damian and Bruce story in the 80th anniversary issue for Robin. He showed that not only does Damian blame himself for Alfred's death but feels the other members of the family blame him too. Although, its not true Babs especially ends up being upset with Bruce for his treatment of Damian and basically tells him that he ran off with Salina and didn't bother to look after Damian during this time. 

Not to mention Thompson doesn't make Damian's tone towards Bruce as angry but really not knowing what to do now that he's taken his current path we see in Teen Titans. Thompson writes him as a 13 year old boy who is dealing with guilt who needs guidance from his father but doesn't know how to ask for it and repair their relationship. Bruce is in the boat of one not knowing Damian is carrying guilt for Alfred's death but also not knowing how to repair his relationship with his son. He knows something is going on with Damian but worries that if he comes in guns blazing he could lose him forever. When it comes to Alfred's death Babs is the one who calls out Bruce saying that he basically allowed Damian to place the guilt on his shoulders instead of addressing what happened. She also talks about Bruce not being a good father to any of his sons right now when they need him the most.

So, no Thompson and other writers don't make Damian the bad guy or evil. But rather a child who really wants and needs guidance. He doesn't have Dick or Alfred right now so Bruce has to step up as a parent and provide it.

Which I like Bruce for a while now has gotten to skate by on his parenting of Damian because of Alfred and Dick being huge positive figures in his life. But it shouldn't be that way Bruce is supposed to be Damian's father not Dick or Alfred even though they have both done a great job with him. I am not saying that Damian and Bruce don't love each other but Bruce needs to step up and be Damian's father right now not Batman. Especially if he has another child on the way.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Okay so to summarize everything, Damian _is_ angry at Bruce, but he doesn't want to lose Dick so he approves of Bruce's method, and he still places Alfred's life in higher priority than his own life and anger at Bruce, and he's there for Bruce's birthday because his anger was at his method and it doesn't mean he hates him personally (That's the feud, right? He thinks Bruce's method is not enough?).


Yes, he thinks Bruce's method is not enough and Bruce literally didn't give him any reason to believe him. Bruce didn't give him any talk, any explanation, just this :
30b336d0-13d2-4775-9382-3023cbaa2644.jpg
He literally let him be? Bruce literally let his 13 years old son, former assassin son, unstable teenager son to do as he please and didn't check him out?

Now let's imagine that you go hiking together with your son, your 13 years old son. You point him a good path to climb the mountain. When your son ask you, why do we must take this path, you answer 'believe me son, I'm more experienced than you about how to climb this mountain. This path is the right path'. You're right of course, no one will deny it. But what if your 13 years old son doesn't believe you, and say 'No! This path is too long! This path is not effective! I will find my own way to climb this mountain!'. Will you say 'okay son, I'll let you find your own way, and I'll come to you only when you do some mistakes' ? Or will you follow him, check him out, warn him, guide him??????????

Just, I don't care that as big hero he probably can't spend all his time watching over his son, I will say that Bruce Wayne is utterly, definitely failed as parent. Hell, like okay after Alfred died, if he want to starve himself, go ahead. But as father you have a responsible to gave your son something to eat????? Not only the money, you have responsible to provide meals on your house for your son?????? A healthy food, because your son is on development age so you can't just give him money and let him buy junk food for himself or something?????????

----------


## shadow6743

If anyone wants to see Bruce absolutely get told off and told about his mistreatment of his sons. Read Batgirl after Alfred's death. Babs really let's Bruce have it. Quite frankly I wish more writers would use Babs this way. Because unlike most of the Bat kids Babs knows what a good father looks like. She has one of the best in the DC Universe in my opinion. Also Babs doesn't lose a father by telling Bruce he is wrong unlike the boys. So, in this issue we really see her tear Bruce a new one and its really good.

----------


## dietrich

> If anyone wants to see Bruce absolutely get told off and told about his mistreatment of his sons. Read Batgirl after Alfred's death. Babs really let's Bruce have it. Quite frankly I wish more writers would use Babs this way. Because unlike most of the Bat kids Babs knows what a good fathe5 looks like. She has one of the best in the DC Universe in my opinion. Also Babs doesn't lose a father by telling Bruce he is wrong unlike the boys.


I have no interest in letting Bruce have it. I want him to heed and change. Unlike some Damian fans I don't mind Bruce forgetting Damian's Birthday or the whole thing of Damian and Tim not been seen in batman titles/the manor = Bruce is negligent. I understand that there's a real world reason for this.

However i'm sick of the lipservice. I'm sick of fans placing blame on batman and the batman writers when Glass, lobdell and the like purposefully write Bruce as a dead beat and fail to build the relationship back up [lobdell does try at times]

I don't want the Batgirl writer handling this. I want Thompson handling it. I wanted Glass to handle it since he set it up.

----------


## shadow6743

> I have no interest in letting Bruce have it. I want him to heed and change. Unlike some Damian fans I don't mind Bruce forgetting Damian's Birthday or the whole thing of Damian and Tim not been seen in batman titles/the manor = Bruce is negligent. I understand that there's a real world reason for this.
> 
> However i'm sick of the lipservice. I'm sick of fans placing blame on batman and the batman writers when Glass, lobdell and the like purposefully write Bruce as a dead beat and fail to build the relationship back up [lobdell does try at times]
> 
> I don't want the Batgirl writer handling this. I want Thompson handling it. I wanted Glass to handle it since he set it up.


I am not to worried about Thompson handling it to be honest. I liked his work during the Robin 80th anniversary issue which is going to be continued in the annual. He writes Bruce as a father who doesn't know how to connect with his son at the moment and Damian as a child who wants to talk to his father about issues going on in his life but doesn't know how.

----------


## dietrich

> Okay, it seems like this TT run want to establish the fact that between Batman and Damian collision, Damian IS the angry side, Damian IS the closed side, like Batman already tried his best but Damian rebels and become secretive and turn evil yadda yadda. 
> 
> This is Damian from Detective Comic
> 
> Look who's there for his loved one's birthday Bruce...
> 
> This is Damian from Batman City of Bane
> 
> The 'still angry' Damian was willing to be literal sacrifice when Bruce and Selina had couple yoga on beach, and still acknowledge Bruce as family
> ...


I really wish TT handled this whole change in direction and MO better. There's so much they left unexplained not to mention the fact that later issues are now trying to convince us that Damian was in the mind wipe MO all alone when we have previous issues which contradict that.

I wish Tt had given us more of the disagreement between father and son.
Given us more info on Jason mentoring Damian. What part did he play in this?

----------


## dietrich

> I am not to worried about Thompson handling it to be honest. I liked his work during the Robin 80th anniversary issue which is going to be continued in the annual. He writes Bruce as a father who doesn't know how to connect with his son at the moment and Damian as a child who wants to talk to his father about issues going on in his life but doesn't know how.


He hasn't given us much on Damian's motivation's and is seemingly going along with Glass' retcon of everything being Damian's idea so I don't have any reason to have faith in him yet

----------


## shadow6743

> He hasn't given us much on Damian's motivation's and is seemingly going along with Glass' retcon of everything being Damian's idea so I don't have any reason to have faith in him yet



I am willing to suspend judgment on him having to follow Glass' retcon. Sometimes writers have to put up with aspect of characters that maybe problematic to the story they want to tell. I just want to see how he handles it and how he will handle the team in September with Djinn and Damian gone. It will be nice to see other members get some character development.

----------


## dietrich

> I am willing to suspend judgment on him having to follow Glass' retcon. Sometimes writers have to put up with aspect of characters that maybe problematic to the story they want to tell. I just want to see how he handles it and how he will handle the team in September with Djinn and Damian gone. It will be nice to see other members get some character development.


I wouldn't mind some spotlight on Wallace and Thunder not that I'm planning on picking up this title going forward. I just feel that those two need some focus

----------


## Light of Justice

> I have no interest in letting Bruce have it. I want him to heed and change. Unlike some Damian fans I don't mind Bruce forgetting Damian's Birthday or the whole thing of Damian and Tim not been seen in batman titles/the manor = Bruce is negligent. I understand that there's a real world reason for this.
> 
> However i'm sick of the lipservice. I'm sick of fans placing blame on batman and the batman writers when Glass, lobdell and the like purposefully write Bruce as a dead beat and fail to build the relationship back up [lobdell does try at times]
> 
> I don't want the Batgirl writer handling this. I want Thompson handling it. I wanted Glass to handle it since he set it up.


I'm not exactly blaming Bruce for forgetting Damian's birthday. On the list I made above, him forgetting Damian's birthday is probably the least I had problem with. I know that Damian's birthday is one of the pushing plot for Percy's TT first arc and he didn't want Batman to tag along. But you can't deny that Bruce is a bad father right now. Taylor's Detective Comic shows it, Synder's No Justice shows it, Jurgens Nightwing shows it, King's Batman definitely shows it, Tomasi and Tynion's R.I.P shows it quite harshly and who knows many more about other Robins (and Cass). It's not about Damian and Tim not been seen in batman titles/the manor = Bruce is negligent. It's when Damian and Tim (and his other children) are present Batman doesn't act as father and take care of them properly, or act as father at all. I just don't want they pulled 'Holy Batman who doth noht do anything wrong' like they did sometimes, and make Damian as the fully only sinner one. I just want it get called out, like Tomasi and Tynion did on Alfred R.I.P. On latest TT issue they make brainwashing fiasco to be completely Damian's fault so I think my concern is quite justifiable. Especially on solicitation they shows that Damian lost his Robin title and missing, and Batman is busy with Joker war, sounds like Damian is the only one who get affected from their collision. And Tynion's tweet confirm that whatever happened on TT is connected to why Damian doesn't appear on Joker War.

----------


## Astralabius

> He hasn't given us much on Damian's motivation's and is seemingly going along with Glass' retcon of everything being Damian's idea so I don't have any reason to have faith in him yet


Motivation is pretty much the key to a story like Damian's in Teen Titans and sadly Glass has really botched that part.
Even if Thompson tried to include all the things Damian fans wanted to get dealt with now, it's far too late in the game to work.
If Dick got shot in the head right now I would understand why Damian suddenly thinks some criminals deserve the ultimate punishment. But that's old news, Dick is actually well on his way to finally come back to his true self after two years. Damian already said that he thinks they didn't go far enough at the end of the last Teen Titans issue, even if something happens in #42 to trigger Damian suddenly chasing after KGBeast, it seems like Damian already made up his mind about what he wants to do.

Considering that the Annual was originally supposed to take place after #41 and the solicitation we got for #42 speaks of Damian being missing like the solicitation for #45 now does too I suspect Damian chasing after KGBeast to kill him is actually part of DC changing plans after Didio left. Of course we don't know if that was Thompson's or DC's idea, but I would be lying if I said those solicitations made me feel hopeful Thompson's run would be less bad.

I don't know how to feel about the story in the 80th anniversary special. It was weird for Bruce to start caring about this when he did nothing about it for months. Maybe I'm paranoid, but I suspect the story was more supposed to be some kind of damage control to make Bruce look like less of an ass than he is.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Given that this is already inevitable, now the most important thing is that this should be Damian's decision. It has to be his decision, no Bruce's. Because if Batman will just stupidly kick him out, then that's it, finish. After that, looking at him as a normal character simply won't be possible. 
> And there is still a moment that could smooth the corners between these two. I read the assumption a few days ago that maybe all of this description of Annual can actually be one complete misleading, and in fact Damian will meet there not with Bruce, but with Batman Who Laughs. And this the actual reason why Damian is considered missing and doesn't appear in Joker War, because BWL abducted him and turned into Robin King, whom, for some reason, Snyder did not show in anticipation of Death Metal and said that his identity was hiding intentionally, in order to surprise readers. So maybe that's can be the reason. It is, of course, far-fetched, but on the other hand Death Metal by that time will already be underway and there should be some kind of connection. And so far nothing is known about Damian in this event, although he should appear.


If it's his own decision that's pretty fine actually. Long time ago Damian rejected his fate as Al-Ghul heir, and if Damian also will reject Robin that means he will choose his own fate, fate which is not influenced by his mother or his father. It can be start of his maturity, like he chooses his own path, not as Al-Ghul or as Wayne. IMO he's still too young for that, but i think it's better than Bruce fires Damian and whatever will happen makes him missing.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Well Thompson who is the one who wrote the Damian and Bruce story in the 80th anniversary issue for Robin. He showed that not only does Damian blame himself for Alfred's death but feels the other members of the family blame him too. Although, its not true Babs especially ends up being upset with Bruce for his treatment of Damian and basically tells him that he ran off with Salina and didn't bother to look after Damian during this time. 
> 
> Not to mention Thompson doesn't make Damian's tone towards Bruce as angry but really not knowing what to do now that he's taken his current path we see in Teen Titans. Thompson writes him as a 13 year old boy who is dealing with guilt who needs guidance from his father but doesn't know how to ask for it and repair their relationship. Bruce is in the boat of one not knowing Damian is carrying guilt for Alfred's death but also not knowing how to repair his relationship with his son. He knows something is going on with Damian but worries that if he comes in guns blazing he could lose him forever. When it comes to Alfred's death Babs is the one who calls out Bruce saying that he basically allowed Damian to place the guilt on his shoulders instead of addressing what happened. She also talks about Bruce not being a good father to any of his sons right now when they need him the most.
> 
> So, no Thompson and other writers don't make Damian the bad guy or evil. But rather a child who really wants and needs guidance. He doesn't have Dick or Alfred right now so Bruce has to step up as a parent and provide it.
> 
> Which I like Bruce for a while now has gotten to skate by on his parenting of Damian because of Alfred and Dick being huge positive figures in his life. But it shouldn't be that way Bruce is supposed to be Damian's father not Dick or Alfred even though they have both done a great job with him. I am not saying that Damian and Bruce don't love each other but Bruce needs to step up and be Damian's father right now not Batman. Especially if he has another child on the way.


About evil, I'm just referring on DC morale concept, killing = evil. Because on next TT issue it implied that Damian will 'cross the line' again. And yes I agree with you, even though I love Dick-Damian relationship, Damian is not Dick nor Alfred's responsibility. Bruce needs to learn how to be functional father without those two.

----------


## Restingvoice

That DC concept of killing = evil is why he ended up in hell after death huh

Okay, I think I got the answer on Bruce and Damian. Thank you. Now it's just how they handle the follow-up. I'll leave what I want for that later after I take it in.

How about Damian and Jason? 
- Damian asked to meet Jason in Teen Titans and they ended up fighting. I don't remember the context.
- Damian suspected and accused Jason in Leviathan. Later, Leviathan is revealed to be someone else. Old Manhunter I think.
- Damian and the rest of the fam joined in fighting Thomas Wayne according to Bruce's plan, and they all have dinner after everything's settled.
- Damian met Jason again during RIP. I don't think they talked much, Damian toasted early then left early. 
I don't know what happened after that.

----------


## Astralabius

> That DC concept of killing = evil is why he ended up in hell after death huh
> 
> Okay, I think I got the answer on Bruce and Damian. Thank you. Now it's just how they handle the follow-up. I'll leave what I want for that later after I take it in.
> 
> How about Damian and Jason? 
> - Damian asked to meet Jason in Teen Titans and they ended up fighting. I don't remember the context.
> - Damian suspected and accused Jason in Leviathan. Later, Leviathan is revealed to be someone else. Old Manhunter I think.
> - Damian and the rest of the fam joined in fighting Thomas Wayne according to Bruce's plan, and they all have dinner after everything's settled.
> - Damian met Jason again during RIP. I don't think they talked much, Damian toasted early then left early. 
> I don't know what happened after that.


I don't think there was anything that happened after that.

----------


## Light of Justice

> That DC concept of killing = evil is why he ended up in hell after death huh
> 
> Okay, I think I got the answer on Bruce and Damian. Thank you. Now it's just how they handle the follow-up. I'll leave what I want for that later after I take it in.
> 
> How about Damian and Jason? 
> - Damian asked to meet Jason in Teen Titans and they ended up fighting. I don't remember the context.
> - Damian suspected and accused Jason in Leviathan. Later, Leviathan is revealed to be someone else. Old Manhunter I think.
> - Damian and the rest of the fam joined in fighting Thomas Wayne according to Bruce's plan, and they all have dinner after everything's settled.
> - Damian met Jason again during RIP. I don't think they talked much, Damian toasted early then left early. 
> I don't know what happened after that.


I don't know if it's counted or not, on RHATO Jason and Artemis was kissing and Artemis said that their kiss tasted weird, like she kissed with her brother even though she doesn't have any brother. And Jason said that he felt the same, and he has 4 brother. So that means he still acknowledge Damian as his brother. Although for me the more important question is..
JASON YOU KNOW HOW IT FEEL TO KISS YOUR BROTHER? WHICH BROTHER HAVE YOU KISSED BEFORE??


I'm just joking though, I know that both Jason and Artemis lied about their kiss, so high possibility that Jason didn't ever really kiss his brothers before. But yeah, my point is from that sentence Damian was kinda briefly mentioned by him. If there's something other than I don't know it

----------


## Morgoth

> Considering that the Annual was originally supposed to take place after #41 and the solicitation we got for #42 speaks of Damian being missing like the solicitation for #45 now does too I suspect Damian chasing after KGBeast to kill him is actually part of DC changing plans after Didio left. Of course we don't know if that was Thompson's or DC's idea, but I would be lying if I said those solicitations made me feel hopeful Thompson's run would be less bad.


I'm not certain, but judging by original plans for 5G with Luke as Batman, Damian, probably, was supposed to become a villain/anti-hero, who would eventually clash with Luke. Maybe that was Didio plan from the beginning, at least to explain why Luke became Batman and not Damian. And that's why all of this happened with him. Probably the plot with a secret prison and an absolute failure as the leader of the Titans led to this.
But now plans obviously changed. The main question is that will happen instead of that. And it’s especially interesting what Tynion will do, because he already talked about big plans for him next year.

----------


## Digifiend

> Uh you do realise this is still Glass' story?
> 
> uh You do realise that this has been set up way before Thompson ever got this gig?
> 
> I'm not going to blame a writer for a story they don't have ownership of. That's like Blaming City of Bane on Tynion.
> 
> Thompson has zero say here he's just completing a story he walked into so plz less of that.


Glass only planned up to Djinn War. Anything after that is all Thompson, hence Glass no longer being credited. If it was still Glass's story, the credit would be Story by Glass, Script by Thompson - instead of Thompson simply being credited as the writer.

If Glass had plans for Damian's next move, those plans have been changed because of 5G getting aborted.

----------


## Astralabius

> I'm not certain, but judging by original plans for 5G with Luke as Batman, Damian, probably, was supposed to become a villain/anti-hero, who would eventually clash with Luke. Maybe that was Didio plan from the beginning, at least to explain why Luke became Batman and not Damian. And that's why all of this happened with him. Probably the plot with a secret prison and an absolute failure as the leader of the Titans led to this.
> But now plans obviously changed. The main question is that will happen instead of that. And it’s especially interesting what Tynion will do, because he already talked about big plans for him next year.


As I already said, one of the changes was the new placement of the annual and the insertion of an arc where Damian is teased to hunt after criminals to make them "pay the ultimate price", so at least from my perspective it doesn't sound like plans have changed for the better. Quite the contrary actually.
Big plans don't mean much. DC has "big plans" for a lot of characters. It also doesn't mean that those plans involve Damian going back to being presented in a good light again.

----------


## king81992

> Crush being the new leader? I have my doubts on weather the remaining members even choice her or she just appointed herself, and if anything it's the latter; otherwise it would make zero sense as she's not even close to leader material because she's the one that likes to just charge in without thinking the most. Red Arrow or KF should lead in Damian's absence, period. We can't blame Glass anymore because he's done, this is Thompson's doing. 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, she gets along quite well with, Emiko as evident from issues #22, #27, #31, and #37. Next to Djinn she's closet to Emi, who would be the one usually keeping Crush sane and calm if Djinn wasn't there. Roundhouse DID get along with Crush as well before the trapping Djinn in her ring, so they might be strain now. Kid Flash is probably the only one left not exactly the best of friends with her. He'll probably reject the idea but do little about it as he tends to do the entire run.


No one on the current roster is fit to lead ANYTHING. I feel like Crush is being set up to be an awful leader(nothing we've seen of her so far implies she has good leadership qualities) to justify putting Damian in charge again,despite the fact that he's not a good leader at all.

----------


## king81992

> Sorry, I'm really not great at noticing relationship (either friendship or romance) when it's not very obvious. That's why when on issue 41 we were shown that Emiko loves Kid Flash, I am probably the only one who is shocked even though actually they got many hints on this TT run. On this team, relationships who are obvious enough for me is Crush-Djinn borderline romance, Kid Flash-Roundhouse broship, and Damian-Emiko professional teammate. But when I think deeply again, Emiko and Crush are quite friends with each other. So perhaps that explains this picture :
> 
> Attachment 97539
> 
> That picture is from TT #44, one issue before issue when Crush is the leader. So there's possibility that Emiko herself who ask Crush to be leader. Even though why will she choose Crush and not Kid Flash when she once admitted that Kid Flash has the most moral ground among them and even asked him for advice is beyond me.


Kid Flash has the morality, but no backbone whatsoever and it doesn't help that the others(except Roundhouse) ignore him when he calls them out. I do agree that Emiko asking Crush to lead would be out of character.

----------


## king81992

> Still Kid Flash and Emiko relationship was EXCELLENT if you compare with Kid Flash and Raven forced couple. Lol. I think Kid flah don't fit in this group anymore.


Oddly enough, the only team that KF fit in with was Team Defiance and despite almost everyone on that roster being varying degrees on insane, they still functioned better than the current TT.

----------


## dietrich

> Glass only planned up to Djinn War. Anything after that is all Thompson, hence Glass no longer being credited. If it was still Glass's story, the credit would be Story by Glass, Script by Thompson - instead of Thompson simply being credited as the writer.
> 
> If Glass had plans for Damian's next move, those plans have been changed because of 5G getting aborted.


It seems that you might be right and none of this is on Glass.

The decision and Damian's arc in TT might have been partly mandated. Robin is afterall a corporate character so the decision isn't made by a single writer or editor.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/batma...77910/?page=94

Check out the bottom of the page. Damian fanboy and Glass convo
Some fans have no chill

----------


## Light of Justice

> It seems that you might be right and none of this is on Glass.
> 
> The decision and Damian's arc in TT might have been partly mandated. Robin is afterall a corporate character so the decision isn't made by a single writer or editor.
> 
> https://comicvine.gamespot.com/batma...77910/?page=94
> 
> Check out the bottom of the page. Damian fanboy and Glass convo
> Some fans have no chill


Oh god comicvine. That site is full of barbaric fans. Especially most of topics on there are Someone vs Someone, which should I say pointless except it's connected to the main plot. I'm glad I found CBR community, at least in here we can have logical and healthy discussion, even though some of CBR articles don't make any sense

----------


## Light of Justice

> Kid Flash has the morality, but no backbone whatsoever and it doesn't help that the others(except Roundhouse) ignore him when he calls them out. I do agree that Emiko asking Crush to lead would be out of character.


I think the role as leader is the backbone Kid Flash need to change the team toward DC's style of good morale team, at least like Dick or Tim's team. Emiko loves him and Roundhouse is his best friend, so if he become leader, he already has 2 person who devoted to him. If Emiko chooses him as leader, Roundhouse will definitely agree and Crush maybe mostly doesn't really care, if she objected that she will still lose by majority votes. As leader, Kid Flash opinion will have more value than as a mere member. My first choice of replacement leader after Damian is Emiko, next is Kid Flash.

Besides, isn't the core three of this group is supposed to be Damian, Emiko, and Wallace? Why it's always Crush, Djinn and Roundhouse who become the pushing plot? It's not like Emiko and Wallace is an old character like Starfire and Raven, whom their plot, character and conflict already established multiple times. Emiko and Wallace is also new characters, much newer than Damian, they still have many good potential plot and development, why they always get pushed back? I feel sorry to Emiko or Wallace fans who read TT for their favorite character. At least we still have Batman Beyond and DCeased, unlike them.

----------


## Astralabius

Not sure if this thread already talked about this, but what are your theories on Robin King?

Connected to Damian? Another version of Bruce? Something entirely different?
According to a tweet Snyder made he'll get his own special during the Death Metal event after his short story in Dark Nights: Death Metal Legends of the Dark Knights. He also teased that Robin King might be his scariest creation yet, but stayed pretty secretive about his background.
It might just be another evil Bruce, but what are your thoughts on this? Could he also be a alternative version of Damian?

----------


## Fergus

> It seems that you might be right and none of this is on Glass.
> 
> The decision and Damian's arc in TT might have been partly mandated. Robin is afterall a corporate character so the decision isn't made by a single writer or editor.
> 
> https://comicvine.gamespot.com/batma...77910/?page=94
> 
> Check out the bottom of the page. Damian fanboy and Glass convo
> Some fans have no chill


Wow! So it was indeed a hit job. If this is to be believed.

If the decision or direction was already agreed then they could have at least tried to make seem more organic. It's just feels so forced.

----------


## Fergus

> Not sure if this thread already talked about this, but what are your theories on Robin King?
> 
> Connected to Damian? Another version of Bruce? Something entirely different?
> According to a tweet Snyder made he'll get his own special during the Death Metal event after his short story in Dark Nights: Death Metal Legends of the Dark Knights. He also teased that Robin King might be his scariest creation yet, but stayed pretty secretive about his background.
> It might just be another evil Bruce, but what are your thoughts on this? Could he also be a alternative version of Damian?


I'm leaning towards Dick Grayson or Duke.

Duke because Synder said he had plans for Duke [he didn't specify if it was Death Metal related]
Dick because he's the OG Robin so in a way the King of all the Robins. He was Robin into his late teens which means Synder doesn't have to write bad things happening to a kid and he's the only Robin Synder actually is a fan of.

Although Synder also tweeted that an Adult version of Damian has a short story in Legends when asked if Damian was going to be a part of the event.

I wasn't aware Robin king also had a short story in Legends of the Dark Knights now I'm wondering if that slip is a hint?

It might be Damian but I feel since we saw Dark Damian in Metal this time it's going to be someone else.

----------


## Astralabius

> I'm leaning towards Dick Grayson or Duke.
> 
> Duke because Synder said he had plans for Duke [he didn't specify if it was Death Metal related]
> Dick because he's the OG Robin so in a way the King of all the Robins. He was Robin into his late teens which means Synder doesn't have to write bad things happening to a kid and he's the only Robin Synder actually is a fan of.
> 
> Although Synder also tweeted that an Adult version of Damian has a short story in Legends when asked if Damian was going to be a part of the event.
> 
> I wasn't aware Robin king also had a short story in Legends of the Dark Knights now I'm wondering if that slip is a hint?
> 
> It might be Damian but I feel since we saw Dark Damian in Metal this time it's going to be someone else.


Could be Dick, but the name Robin King might simply  be a title because the Batman Who Laughs has all those other Robins and this one might stand above them. Dark Damian had that position in Metal before he was killed. Dick is the original Robin, but he also hasn't been Robin in a long, long time.

No idea what Duke is doing at the moment, he's in Batman and the Outsiders and that's all I know about him right now.

Legends of the Dark Knights is supposed to include Robin King's origin story. Snyder said the story with an adult Damian would be in the death metal guidebook about evil batmen, so if that's true and Snyder didn't get the books mixed up I guess it's unlikely that Robin King is Damian.
The only reason I thought about the possibility is that even with Damian losing the mantle in August he's still the most recent Robin.

----------


## dietrich

Honestly more likely to be Jarro than Damian. Williamson and likely Morrision Batman being the foundation for Metal was the reason we got any Damian in Metal. Synder had originally said he wasn't going to be in it till  Williamson pitched Dick and Damian looking for Bruce [Gotham Resistance]

I can see Synder wanting to use other characters who missed out on a good role in metal especially since this time he has a whole multiverse not just 7 worlds.

If one of the Batmen is literally a living city then there are no limits on who Robin King could be

----------


## Astralabius

> Honestly more likely to be Jarro than Damian. Williamson and likely Morrision Batman being the foundation for Metal was the reason we got any Damian in Metal. Synder had originally said he wasn't going to be in it till  Williamson pitched Dick and Damian looking for Bruce [Gotham Resistance]
> 
> I can see Synder wanting to use other characters who missed out on a good role in metal especially since this time he has a whole multiverse not just 7 worlds.
> 
> If one of the Batmen is literally a living city then there are no limits on who Robin King could be


I doubt it's Jarro. Robin King is supposed to be extremely scary. Also a regular Death Metal issue already teases the arrival of "everyones favorite wannabe Robin", that sounds more like Jarro.
Robin King is most likely pretty evil.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> If anyone wants to see Bruce absolutely get told off and told about his mistreatment of his sons. Read Batgirl after Alfred's death. Babs really let's Bruce have it. Quite frankly I wish more writers would use Babs this way. Because unlike most of the Bat kids Babs knows what a good father looks like. She has one of the best in the DC Universe in my opinion. Also Babs doesn't lose a father by telling Bruce he is wrong unlike the boys. So, in this issue we really see her tear Bruce a new one and its really good.


I will definitely read this. The only thing I didn't like about Barbara in Alfred RIP is that she didn't talk with Damian, since she was the only not idiot for notice how much Damian needed help, she could look for Damian after her noticed Bruce was not going to do nothing.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Yes, he thinks Bruce's method is not enough and Bruce literally didn't give him any reason to believe him. Bruce didn't give him any talk, any explanation, just this :
> Attachment 97578
> He literally let him be? Bruce literally let his 13 years old son, former assassin son, unstable teenager son to do as he please and didn't check him out?
> 
> Now let's imagine that you go hiking together with your son, your 13 years old son. You point him a good path to climb the mountain. When your son ask you, why do we must take this path, you answer 'believe me son, I'm more experienced than you about how to climb this mountain. This path is the right path'. You're right of course, no one will deny it. But what if your 13 years old son doesn't believe you, and say 'No! This path is too long! This path is not effective! I will find my own way to climb this mountain!'. Will you say 'okay son, I'll let you find your own way, and I'll come to you only when you do some mistakes' ? Or will you follow him, check him out, warn him, guide him??????????
> 
> Just, I don't care that as big hero he probably can't spend all his time watching over his son, I will say that Bruce Wayne is utterly, definitely failed as parent. Hell, like okay after Alfred died, if he want to starve himself, go ahead. But as father you have a responsible to gave your son something to eat????? Not only the money, you have responsible to provide meals on your house for your son?????? A healthy food, because your son is on development age so you can't just give him money and let him buy junk food for himself or something?????????


I think I just found someone is more hatter than me in "batman is the worst dad in earth".
I don't know about this climb analogy. He guarantees a good break fast, but will not eat together, if someone became upset about this he will ignore the problem at this looks like disappeared , and he will runs way when someone needs a hug.
He loves Damian, but can't handle with someone he can't control. He is not supportive with Damian doing what he wants, he is just more coward than awarded for have a conversation.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

[IMG]https://encrypted-tbn0.************/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRzOXPJbmSg2vvYN3QHpky0zZurcTc  zMdxSyRI-fgdN-mVRCq_D&usqp=CAU[/IMG]

Is this a abandoned idea, or a alternative universe or a no canon storie?
Nobody talk about this here, but for me now is the time that Damian can lost his contact with Batfamily and lost himself in a way for Bruce don't even know where/how he is/ is he alive.
I think Damian maybe decides stop being Robin in a "you don't fire me, i quite " style, for don't need to deal with one more rejection. 
For me the only way Damian don't lose himself in a bad path now is if Bruce says "i love you son" + feelings conversation + hug or Dick coming back and holding Damian for go way.

How will Dick react if he came back and discovery that Damian went way because of a fight with Bruce, and he will remember about Alfred RIP and it's going to be a snowball of disaster? I just tought about this, should get some sleep.

----------


## Astralabius

> [IMG]https://encrypted-tbn0.************/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRzOXPJbmSg2vvYN3QHpky0zZurcTc  zMdxSyRI-fgdN-mVRCq_D&usqp=CAU[/IMG]
> 
> Is this a abandoned idea, or a alternative universe or a no canon storie?
> Nobody talk about this here, but for me now is the time that Damian can lost his contact with Batfamily and lost himself in a way for Bruce don't even know where/how he is/ is he alive.
> I think Damian maybe decides stop being Robin in a "you don't fire me, i quite " style, for don't need to deal with one more rejection. 
> For me the only way Damian don't lose himself in a bad path now is if Bruce says "i love you son" + feelings conversation + hug or Dick coming back and holding Damian for go way.
> 
> How will Dick react if he came back and discovery that Damian went way because of a fight with Bruce, and he will remember about Alfred RIP and it's going to be a snowball of disaster? I just tought about this, should get some sleep.


The picture isn't working, at least not for me. So I don't know what exactly you're talking about.

I don't think the annual will end in a good way. Teen Titans 45 says Damian is missing after the annual, Tynion says Damian won't show up in Joker War even though almost everyone else in the family is taking part in it, the art from the annual Eduardo Pansica, the artist for the annual, has posted on his Instagram has Bruce looking pretty grim and Damian kinda cocky, so honestly I expect Damian to get a beatdown in this and then vanish.
This run never really let Damian have a triumphant moment, I don't expect to get one now. The book seems only interested in humiliating him and proving him wrong.

I wouldn't count on Dick saving the day either. Dick is still not completely back in September and when he is I'm not sure if Damian will be the writers first priority.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I think I just found someone is more hatter than me in "batman is the worst dad in earth".
> I don't know about this climb analogy. He guarantees a good break fast, but will not eat together, if someone became upset about this he will ignore the problem at this looks like disappeared , and he will runs way when someone needs a hug.
> He loves Damian, but can't handle with someone he can't control. He is not supportive with Damian doing what he wants, he is just more coward than awarded for have a conversation.


My point of climbing analogy, you can't just let your 13 years old child to do difficult thing by himself just because the said child told you that he already decided to do things on his own way, doesn't check him or watching over him, and then go angry on the child when the child do something you don't like. I don't want Batman, and the writers put all the blame to Damian, and make him the only wrong one. Many fans like to picture him as mature character, but for me he's as immature as 13 years old can be. I just lost my teenager title on March before, but if my 13 years old relatives come to me and say "I will do this difficult and dangerous thing with my own way and I will not follow your way" I will be very worried and at least  ask "hold on, what exactly your own way will be?"
I know he did the same with Dick, and the result is Teen Titans, but Dick is 18 that time and not former assassin.

I'm not exactly Batman hater, nor I see him as worst dad in earth. He has his good father moments, but right now, he's downright bad not only for Damian but for his other children as well. I hope some competent writers will fix that, and no, one random hug is not the way to fix it (like they did on Jason's case, and many cases before). Let him talk and use his words goddammit, you are freaking writer and Batman is not a gorilla. I certainly have my hope for Tynion, scene when Bruce depicted each Robins good aspects to Damian on Batman & Robin Eternal is one of my favorite Batman moment.

----------


## Light of Justice

> [IMG]https://encrypted-tbn0.************/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRzOXPJbmSg2vvYN3QHpky0zZurcTc  zMdxSyRI-fgdN-mVRCq_D&usqp=CAU[/IMG]
> 
> Is this a abandoned idea, or a alternative universe or a no canon storie?
> Nobody talk about this here, but for me now is the time that Damian can lost his contact with Batfamily and lost himself in a way for Bruce don't even know where/how he is/ is he alive.
> I think Damian maybe decides stop being Robin in a "you don't fire me, i quite " style, for don't need to deal with one more rejection. 
> For me the only way Damian don't lose himself in a bad path now is if Bruce says "i love you son" + feelings conversation + hug or Dick coming back and holding Damian for go way.
> 
> How will Dick react if he came back and discovery that Damian went way because of a fight with Bruce, and he will remember about Alfred RIP and it's going to be a snowball of disaster? I just tought about this, should get some sleep.


Do you post that picture on different thread and copy the link to this thread? Because this site will shorten the link you've posted and I think this red part is the problem
[IMG]https://encrypted-tbn0.************/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRzOXPJbmSg2vvYN3QHpky0zZurcTc zMdxSyRI-fgdN-mVRCq_D&usqp=CAU[/IMG]

----------


## Morgoth

They, it seems to me now, just want to follow the path of Dick and Jason (especially Jason, given that they are just alike), in that sense, to make Damian go on an absolutely independent path, and give him different alias. Setting everyone against him, starting up a series of terrible events and completely destroying relationship with his father is a cheap trick, but for them this is apparently the only acceptable way to do this. Such an idiotic vision of character. And, perhaps, this just goes into this certain Tynion plan for Batfamily in 2021, he, in fact, confirmed that Damian will return to batcomics. The truth is how they will do it and what it will be - that’s another question and pretty dangerous one. 
And by the way, it seems to me that Damian will not return to the Titans. DC already, in fact, intentionally signed that he simply does not fit into this team, he could not get along in the original concept of the team, and he simply set up a new team against himself. I would like to see something else, but it seems that the only person who is now really interested in socializing Damian is Tomasi, who is clearly there in the minority in terms of the vision of this character.

----------


## Astralabius

Looking at the disaster this apparently editorially mandated current plan for Damian shapes up to be I just don't have enough trust left in the way DC handles Damian to believe their next plan for him to be good.
Tynion can claim they have "big, big plans" for him as much as he wants, I don't trust DC.
The execution of Damian's fall is just too messy, thoughtless and disrespectful to the previous work done on his character for me to believe that DC got this.

----------


## king81992

> They, it seems to me now, just want to follow the path of Dick and Jason (especially Jason, given that they are just alike), in that sense, to make Damian go on an absolutely independent path, and give him different alias. Setting everyone against him, starting up a series of terrible events and completely destroying relationship with his father is a cheap trick, but for them this is apparently the only acceptable way to do this. Such an idiotic vision of character. And, perhaps, this just goes into this certain Tynion plan for Batfamily in 2021, he, in fact, confirmed that Damian will return to batcomics. The truth is how they will do it and what it will be - thats another question and pretty dangerous one. 
> And by the way, it seems to me that Damian will not return to the Titans. DC already, in fact, intentionally signed that he simply does not fit into this team, he could not get along in the original concept of the team, and he simply set up a new team against himself. I would like to see something else, but it seems that the only person who is now really interested in socializing Damian is Tomasi, who is clearly there in the minority in terms of the vision of this character.


I hope that Damian doesn't come back to the Titans, but DC has shown a tendency not to see the writing on the wall. Intentionally or unintentionally they've turned Damian into 'team obliterator' the character but they may include him on future rosters for cheap drama.

----------


## Morgoth

They may want to keep him there because of sales, probably. Without him it will be hard to sale with current line-up.
But otherwise entire "Damian in Teen Titans" plot seems like complete failure. Damian failed as Titans member in Pre-Flashpoint era, he failed with the first team (if to be more precise, he just turned away from them even after all those words about "friends" etc) and now failed with the second team. And this is in contrast with Dick and Tim, for whom the Titans were a family, just like Batfamily, especially for Dick. And now we have Damian, who failed with them three freaking times (the third time was complete his damn team), because writers just for some reason don't want him to be on good terms with them. So, from a logical point of view, it's time to end it all, the whole point is that he's not the leader and not team player with others. Or change the damn approach to the team, maybe Tomasi could handle it, or someone else, and at the same time add Jon and Maya to the team, who at least could help his character.
The problem is that all this stagnation of Damian is hurting the Titans themselves, who were simply turned into a group of toxic kids, although this very team should have been a ray of light and hope.

----------


## Dazai_Osamu

I liked he isn't a team player neither a leader but it's fine, he could be the lancer, the plainer or the brain in a team, it makes him different but not in a bad way. The trust issues are an aspect to explore and there are consequences for his actions and for the team's actions which are worthy things to address, his team could be used to accomplish specific things but they don't need to become a family, pragmatic reasons to gather a team are valid, not nice but useful either way.

----------


## king81992

> They may want to keep him there because of sales, probably. Without him it will be hard to sale with current line-up.
> But otherwise entire "Damian in Teen Titans" plot seems like complete failure. Damian failed as Titans member in Pre-Flashpoint era, he failed with the first team (if to be more precise, he just turned away from them even after all those words about "friends" etc) and now failed with the second team. And this is in contrast with Dick and Tim, for whom the Titans were a family, just like Batfamily, especially for Dick. And now we have Damian, who failed with them three freaking times (the third time was complete his damn team), because writers just for some reason don't want him to be on good terms with them. So, from a logical point of view, it's time to end it all, the whole point is that he's not the leader and not team player with others. Or change the damn approach to the team, maybe Tomasi could handle it, or someone else, and at the same time add Jon and Maya to the team, who at least could help his character.
> The problem is that all this stagnation of Damian is hurting the Titans themselves, who were simply turned into a group of toxic kids, although this very team should have been a ray of light and hope.


I feel like the current line up(except for Emiko and Kid Flash) are probably heading for limbo after this run.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I just had this vision and want to comment, I know it is totally impossible, but, imagine Damian is angry and Bruce and Damian are in this big conflict and Bruce says "I just want to say one more thing" silence silence silence "happy birthday" because in I was Robin just made 1 year since Damian went away for the manor and now he's 14 years. Plot twist (I think).
I knoooow this is too much manga and is not going to happen, and just this couldn't fix anyanyanything, but would be precious.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

***Trying repost

Is this a abandoned idea, or a alternative universe or a no canon storie? Nobody talk about this here, but for me now is the time that Damian can lost his contact with Batfamily and lost himself in a way for Bruce don't even know where/how he is/ is he alive.

My cronology for this would be:
- Now Damian break up with Batfamily
- He completely disappears, anybody knows where he is, what is he doing and even if he is alive.
- So Bruce is getting older and need a new Robin, who is Duke.

* It is from "Future’s End Batman and Robin #1"

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> They may want to keep him there because of sales, probably. Without him it will be hard to sale with current line-up.
> But otherwise entire "Damian in Teen Titans" plot seems like complete failure. Damian failed as Titans member in Pre-Flashpoint era, he failed with the first team (if to be more precise, he just turned away from them even after all those words about "friends" etc) and now failed with the second team. And this is in contrast with Dick and Tim, for whom the Titans were a family, just like Batfamily, especially for Dick. And now we have Damian, who failed with them three freaking times (the third time was complete his damn team), because writers just for some reason don't want him to be on good terms with them. So, from a logical point of view, it's time to end it all, the whole point is that he's not the leader and not team player with others. Or change the damn approach to the team, maybe Tomasi could handle it, or someone else, and at the same time add Jon and Maya to the team, who at least could help his character.
> The problem is that all this stagnation of Damian is hurting the Titans themselves, who were simply turned into a group of toxic kids, although this very team should have been a ray of light and hope.


Everybody wants Damian-Jon-Maya + some others characters team.
First Damian's TT have 3 characters of original series, what I though was a lazy idea, now all characters are new and have any TT vibes. We need a half term. actually I keep thinking Crush unbalance the team. She has all bad Damian's characteristics but any Damian's good characteristics. And she is a "bad person" too.

Sorry, I needed to share this:

----------


## Rac7d*

> ***Trying repost
> 
> Is this a abandoned idea, or a alternative universe or a no canon storie? Nobody talk about this here, but for me now is the time that Damian can lost his contact with Batfamily and lost himself in a way for Bruce don't even know where/how he is/ is he alive.
> 
> My cronology for this would be:
> - Now Damian break up with Batfamily
> - He completely disappears, anybody knows where he is, what is he doing and even if he is alive.
> - So Bruce is getting older and need a new Robin, who is Duke.
> 
> * It is from "Futures End Batman and Robin #1"


duke already 15 he has his own identity, its better for him to not be robin
robins die

----------


## Light of Justice

> ***Trying repost
> 
> Is this a abandoned idea, or a alternative universe or a no canon storie? Nobody talk about this here, but for me now is the time that Damian can lost his contact with Batfamily and lost himself in a way for Bruce don't even know where/how he is/ is he alive.
> 
> My cronology for this would be:
> - Now Damian break up with Batfamily
> - He completely disappears, anybody knows where he is, what is he doing and even if he is alive.
> - So Bruce is getting older and need a new Robin, who is Duke.
> 
> * It is from "Future’s End Batman and Robin #1"


If Duke become Robin and discard his Signal identity, somehow I will see it as character regression. I think Robin title is just like student title, when you find you own identity name, that means you've graduated from Robin and become full-fledged hero.

It's the same case with Tim. Someone I know on twitter said that with Damian's loss on Robin title and Bendis leaving, it's the best opportunity for Tim to discard Drake title (which nobody likes) and reclaim Robin title. But I think it will be Tim's character regression. Like or not, he already separated himself from Batman sidekick status and become full-fledged hero, first as Red Robin, and now as Drake.

(But on the other hand, on latest Young Justice issue Tim's teammate called him Robin. I already give up on understanding Bendis's way of thinking

----------


## Konja7

> If Duke become Robin and discard his Signal identity, somehow I will see it as character regression. I think Robin title is just like student title, when you find you own identity name, that means you've graduated from Robin and become full-fledged hero.
> 
> It's the same case with Tim. Someone I know on twitter said that with Damian's loss on Robin title and Bendis leaving, it's the best opportunity for Tim to discard Drake title (which nobody likes) and reclaim Robin title. But I think it will be Tim's character regression. Like or not, he already separated himself from Batman sidekick status and become full-fledged hero, first as Red Robin, and now as Drake.


Robin could be a regression, but it is also a brand name with a strong recognition and connection to Batman

It is more likely writers want to use a character that has Robin identity than a character that has the Signal identity.

----------


## Light of Justice

This picture is debuted on latest DC comic issues like Nightwing annual 3, Young Justice, Batman and The Outsiders, etc. Not gonna lie, at first i thought that meme is fan made, like Batman slap social distancing version. Turns out it's official from DC. It's funny because it's true, it's hurt because it's true, so I don't know I want to laugh or cry.

I wonder if they will use that meme on Teen Titans annual...

----------


## Masterff

> If Duke become Robin and discard his Signal identity, somehow I will see it as character regression. I think Robin title is just like student title, when you find you own identity name, that means you've graduated from Robin and become full-fledged hero.
> 
> It's the same case with Tim. Someone I know on twitter said that with Damian's loss on Robin title and Bendis leaving, it's the best opportunity for Tim to discard Drake title (which nobody likes) and reclaim Robin title. But I think it will be Tim's character regression. Like or not, he already separated himself from Batman sidekick status and become full-fledged hero, first as Red Robin, and now as Drake.
> 
> (But on the other hand, on latest Young Justice issue Tim's teammate called him Robin. I already give up on understanding Bendis's way of thinking


Actually its kind of logical that he gets called ROBIN.

If you read ACTION COMICS than you know that he identified himself to SUPERMAN as Robin,because he changed his identity during YJ and he is known to others as RED ROBIN or ROBIN.

----------


## Digifiend

Could also be that he's already changed his mind about the Drake thing, after Steph complained about the costume last issue.




> Do you post that picture on different thread and copy the link to this thread? Because this site will shorten the link you've posted and I think this red part is the problem
> [IMG]https://encrypted-tbn0.************/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRzOXPJbmSg2vvYN3QHpky0zZurcTc zMdxSyRI-fgdN-mVRCq_D&usqp=CAU[/IMG]


That wasn't the problem. Those asterisks were caused by the swearing filter. Whatever website they linked to must be blacklisted here. I see it's been reposted, so the problem is solved anyway.

----------


## Astralabius

If they make Tim Robin again he's officially the guy who can't evolve and move on.
How old is he right now? 17? 
It would actually be a pretty sad statement about his character if DC makes him Robin again.
But Bendis making terrible decisions is nothing new I guess.

----------


## Masterff

> If they make Tim Robin again he's officially the guy who can't evolve and move on.
> How old is he right now? 17? 
> It would actually be a pretty sad statement about his character if DC makes him Robin again.
> But Bendis making terrible decisions is nothing new I guess.


No the guy who cant move on is officially KON EL and probably IMPULSE.

Tim at least has a history...Kon Els history is complicated and MOST of his history seems to be completely erased...(not remembering Kellex etc.)

----------


## Morgoth

By the way, Tynion likes Tim. With Damian quitting and becoming something else, he really can be used as Robin after Joker War. It's another example of stagnation, but it really can happen. Anyway, it's, probably, the biggest problem with Damian is because each Batman writer just not interested in character. Snyder didn't want to write him and obviously wanted to have Duke as Robin, and I'm sure he was pissed by his ressurection. King doesn't care about anyone expect Selina. And Tynion, as I said, likes Tim more, but in this case I believe he's better option that the first couple.
And there is a positive here. If Damian really becomes completely independent, it is possible that they will do an ongoing about him next year.

----------


## Astralabius

> No the guy who cant move on is officially KON EL and probably IMPULSE.
> 
> Tim at least has a history...Kon Els history is complicated and MOST of his history seems to be completely erased...(not remembering Kellex etc.)


I was talking about the bat-family. But yes, Bendis is currently using several characters this way.

----------


## Astralabius

> By the way, Tynion likes Tim. With Damian quitting and becoming something else, he really can be used as Robin after Joker War. It's another example of stagnation, but it really can happen. Anyway, it's, probably, the biggest problem with Damian is because each Batman writer just not interested in character. Snyder didn't want to write him and obviously wanted to have Duke as Robin, and I'm sure he was pissed by his ressurection. King doesn't care about anyone expect Selina. And Tynion, as I said, likes Tim more, but in this case I believe he's better option that the first couple.
> And there is a positive here. If Damian really becomes completely independent, it is possible that they will do an ongoing about him next year.


The problem I see with Damian going independent is that I don't ever see him breaking free from Batman, even less than the other Robins.
Damian is Bruce's bio son, he will never not be compared to Bruce or used to advance Bruce's story when DC feels like it.
In a way you can see Glass' Teen Titans run as Damian going independent and Damian still ended up as a tool in King's Batman run and now Bruce is coming to confront him with the consequences of his actions.
I don't expect this situation to change just because Damian stops being Robin.

----------


## Fergus

> By the way, Tynion likes Tim. With Damian quitting and becoming something else, he really can be used as Robin after Joker War. It's another example of stagnation, but it really can happen. Anyway, it's, probably, the biggest problem with Damian is because each Batman writer just not interested in character. Snyder didn't want to write him and obviously wanted to have Duke as Robin, and I'm sure he was pissed by his ressurection. King doesn't care about anyone expect Selina. And Tynion, as I said, likes Tim more, but in this case I believe he's better option that the first couple.
> And there is a positive here. If Damian really becomes completely independent, it is possible that they will do an ongoing about him next year.


It's not a case of Batman writers not liking him [both Synder and King use him more often than any other family members outside of Dick]

It's just that DC decided in the 90's to make Robin an independent hero. Robin hasn't been a regular in the Batman title since the 90's Robin series was introduced in the 90's. Morrison brought the dynamic duo back for Batman and Robin Reborn but that and Tomasi's Batman and Robin volumes were specials.

Other than that series the dynamic duo have really only been in outside titles and cross overs.

It really would be funny and poetic if Tim replaced Damian as Robin lol.

----------


## Fergus

> They may want to keep him there because of sales, probably. Without him it will be hard to sale with current line-up.
> But otherwise entire "Damian in Teen Titans" plot seems like complete failure. Damian failed as Titans member in Pre-Flashpoint era, he failed with the first team (if to be more precise, he just turned away from them even after all those words about "friends" etc) and now failed with the second team. And this is in contrast with Dick and Tim, for whom the Titans were a family, just like Batfamily, especially for Dick. And now we have Damian, who failed with them three freaking times (the third time was complete his damn team), because writers just for some reason don't want him to be on good terms with them. So, from a logical point of view, it's time to end it all, the whole point is that he's not the leader and not team player with others. Or change the damn approach to the team, maybe Tomasi could handle it, or someone else, and at the same time add Jon and Maya to the team, who at least could help his character.
> The problem is that all this stagnation of Damian is hurting the Titans themselves, who were simply turned into a group of toxic kids, although this very team should have been a ray of light and hope.


It's not the writers it's Damian. He isn't a team player and he isn't good with people. he's like Bruce but worse due to age and upbringing [In the  Animated movies, the brief for writing Damian was 'use the same type of dialogue and reactions as Batman. He's a 12 year old batman so kind of annoying.]

He only introduced to regular society 3 years ago and the concept of working together not dominating.

----------


## Fergus

> Actually its kind of logical that he gets called ROBIN.
> 
> If you read ACTION COMICS than you know that he identified himself to SUPERMAN as Robin,because he changed his identity during YJ and he is known to others as RED ROBIN or ROBIN.


It's not logical since Superman also knew him as Red Robin. Imagine if all the Robins went around introducing themselves as Robin.

However I'm glad he didn't introduce himself as Drake.

----------


## Rac7d*

> It's not the writers it's Damian. He isn't a team player and he isn't good with people. he's like Bruce but worse due to age and upbringing [In the  Animated movies, the brief for writing Damian was 'use the same type of dialogue and reactions as Batman. He's a 12 year old batman so kind of annoying.]
> 
> He only introduced to regular society 3 years ago and the concept of working together not dominating.


Because writers write him this way. He is robin, robins always work in teams,

----------


## Astralabius

> It really would be funny and poetic if Tim replaced Damian as Robin lol.


I fail to see what would be funny about that.

----------


## Digifiend

> No the guy who cant move on is officially KON EL and probably IMPULSE.
> 
> Tim at least has a history...Kon Els history is complicated and MOST of his history seems to be completely erased...(not remembering Kellex etc.)


His history before the final year of his solo is gone, yeah. He didn't remember Cadmus, who were involved in his origin, so that's both the Hawaii era and the Cadmus employee era gone. It's like he started out around the time he got his second costume, which happened in a retool not long before his book was cancelled.

Bart has an excuse though. Remember when Wally West emerged from the Speed Force as Kid Flash instead of Flash - and he later made a new Flash costume? Same thing happened to Bart, he emerged as Impulse instead of Kid Flash. They were both de-aged but retain their memories (unlike Conner, apparently). And Bart didn't change back to Kid Flash because Wallace West was already using the mantle. There was another Impulse, but she wasn't around (she came back in Flash Forward, which is after Bart came back). With Irey gone, he was free to take back the Impulse mantle. It'll be interesting to see what happens when Bart realises Irey is back.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Actually its kind of logical that he gets called ROBIN.
> 
> If you read ACTION COMICS than you know that he identified himself to SUPERMAN as Robin,because he changed his identity during YJ and he is known to others as RED ROBIN or ROBIN.


Then why Bendis give him new identity name, when in the end no one will use it? That's the part I don't understand about Tim's Bendis.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Because writers write him this way. He is robin, robins always work in teams,


I think we've already established that Damian is a complete different Robin than his predecessor. Unlike Dick, Jason pre-crowbar, and Tim, Damian's character is too dominating, well that's expected when you combine control-freak Bruce genes with Daughter of Demons gene. He will never want to be underneath anyone, Ra's Talia, even Bruce, that's why we often see Damian and Bruce butting their heads like a pair of bulls. And that's why he gets along with Dick, because Dick as Batman never force Damian to accept him as his leader. And yes, Bruce's harsh and control freak attitude maybe make him look menacing, but combine that with 13 years old (and very short) body, the results is just a boy who is so annoying. Competent of course, but annoying. Sure he has his good, compassionate side, but you will not see it on him on first glance, and he will not show it to you on your first met. That's why he work best on duo, even though Dick found him annoying, Steph found him annoying, Jon found him annoying, they still stay on his side and slowly learn the goodness on his character. But on team, if Damian annoys you, you just can ignore him and hang out with other teammates you like more, and the result is Damian will be isolated from the team. Happened in all of his experience on 3 Teen Titans team.

----------


## Morgoth

> It's not the writers it's Damian. He isn't a team player and he isn't good with people. he's like Bruce but worse due to age and upbringing [In the  Animated movies, the brief for writing Damian was 'use the same type of dialogue and reactions as Batman. He's a 12 year old batman so kind of annoying.]
> 
> He only introduced to regular society 3 years ago and the concept of working together not dominating.


I don't mean he should accept everyone with open arms. I just don't understand their direction. At first, they allowed Tomasi to lead him along the path of redemption and change, revealed his character on the other hand, in fact, it was then that his character became popular, which saved him from permanent death after Morrison. They gave him friends (Maya, Jon, Titans), gave him team (two teams at the same time), distanced him from Talia and the League, even put him against Ra's, improved his relationship with Bruce and the rest. In short, the entire top of the "dark path" was abandoned, it began to build in a more optimistic manner. That was their direction.
And then with one step it all destroyed and reduced to the starting point) Just what is the point that entire development then?)

----------


## king81992

> Because writers write him this way. He is robin, robins always work in teams,


There's always an exception to the rule.As things are now, Damian would need massive character development before he can function as a player on any team.

----------


## Fergus

> If Duke become Robin and discard his Signal identity, somehow I will see it as character regression. I think Robin title is just like student title, when you find you own identity name, that means you've graduated from Robin and become full-fledged hero.
> 
> It's the same case with Tim. Someone I know on twitter said that with Damian's loss on Robin title and Bendis leaving, it's the best opportunity for Tim to discard Drake title (which nobody likes) and reclaim Robin title. But I think it will be Tim's character regression. Like or not, he already separated himself from Batman sidekick status and become full-fledged hero, first as Red Robin, and now as Drake.
> 
> (But on the other hand, on latest Young Justice issue Tim's teammate called him Robin. I already give up on understanding Bendis's way of thinking


Honestly i don't think it is regressive. Tim lost the role but he never really seemed to move on. Red Robin, wearing robin colours, keeps offering to help and was sidekick to Bruce and kate in Rebirth Tec. Tim's like that weird dude that lost his job but won't leave. he keeps coming in and hanging around the office.


Tim is David Brent. The  character from the TV series The Office [the UK series] lol

Plus becoming officially Robin not the knock-off Robin role he's been stuck in. it's also better than anything he doing right now.

----------


## Fergus

> There's always an exception to the rule.As things are now, Damian would need massive character development before he can function as a player on any team.


No he just needs age and to learn form his experiences. Damian from Percy's TT was much better than Glass TT OCC version.  I get the mandate for this current run was to force Damian to make all the wrong decisions and be the worst because the higher up decided he should lose Robin but Glass went over the top.

i will say that I enjoyed seeing A bat try to do thing's differently rather than just hand them over to the police and later the same villains come out to commit even more crimes and the cycle continues.

Damian said he was going to find a permanent solution and he did. Damian method of controlling crime to make sure that the cycle of repeat offenders was impressive though all kinds of wrong. 

He's firmly in Anti-Hero bracket these days.

----------


## Astralabius

> No he just needs age and to learn form his experiences. Damian from Percy's TT was much better than Glass TT OCC version.  I get the mandate for this current run was to force Damian to make all the wrong decisions and be the worst because the higher up decided he should lose Robin but Glass went over the top.
> 
> i will say that I enjoyed seeing A bat try to do thing's differently rather than just hand them over to the police and later the same villains come out to commit even more crimes and the cycle continues.
> 
> Damian said he was going to find a permanent solution and he did. Damian method of controlling crime to make sure that the cycle of repeat offenders was impressive though all kinds of wrong. 
> 
> He's firmly in Anti-Hero bracket these days.


Except he didn't find any permanent solutions. The prison didn't work, the brainwashing is over and his next idea, killing people, is funny considering that this run itself proves that kiling doesn't work either.
Deathstroke is already running around again and the Heretic was supposed to be dead after Batman Inc, and suddenly here he was, running around to tempt Damian to join him.
And now Damian will probably get hit in the face by his dad for doing all of these terrible things that achieved nothing.

----------


## Fergus

> I don't mean he should accept everyone with open arms. I just don't understand their direction. At first, they allowed Tomasi to lead him along the path of redemption and change, revealed his character on the other hand, in fact, it was then that his character became popular, which saved him from permanent death after Morrison. They gave him friends (Maya, Jon, Titans), gave him team (two teams at the same time), distanced him from Talia and the League, even put him against Ra's, improved his relationship with Bruce and the rest. In short, the entire top of the "dark path" was abandoned, it began to build in a more optimistic manner. That was their direction.
> And then with one step it all destroyed and reduced to the starting point) Just what is the point that entire development then?)


The dark path is never going to be abandoned. Not with any of the Robin's especially Damian. Damian's character development is still there he's just trying to do something differently. His way. This the first time Damian is doing anything his way. That is growth and if it helps he is doing it because he cares and his intentions were good. He just can't bear to see bad things happen to good people. He couldn't just walk off the loss of so many lives like the JL did in No Justice. 

Damian is a good guy with a great heart. Batman's way isn't working clearly. It's a tricky subject stopping all crime. I don't think that can be done and Damian's method isn't the way but just because he choose this path doesn't mean he is headed for a dark path. The JL have mind wiped villains and Batman has an illegal Jail but that didn't stop them from being heroes

He will learn/will be made to see the error of his ways and hopefully he'll grow from that.

On the friends stuff and people. Damian will always struggle with new people and social skills. that's just who he is. He is afterall a sort of parody of Bruce. 

With his origin and being a Bat Optimistic is rarely the direction writers will choose. For some reason it's always angsty in the Batman verse.
I hope to see more of his friends and wouldn't mind some positive and happy tales but the stories where he struggles and gets challenged keep things interesting.

----------


## Fergus

> Except he didn't find any permanent solutions. The prison didn't work, the brainwashing is over and his next idea, killing people, is funny considering that this run itself proves that kiling doesn't work either.
> Deathstroke is already running around again and the Heretic was supposed to be dead after Batman Inc, and suddenly here he was, running around to tempt Damian to join him.
> And now Damian will probably get hit in the face by his dad for doing all of these terrible things that achieved nothing.


Like I said this damian is forced mandate and he tried he just got found out.
Bruce his his kids in the face all the time but lets hope this time he remembers to communicate with his words

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> duke already 15 he has his own identity, its better for him to not be robin
> robins die


Agree, but Batman needs a Robin, if Damian go way I think Duke is the better choice?

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> If Duke become Robin and discard his Signal identity, somehow I will see it as character regression. I think Robin title is just like student title, when you find you own identity name, that means you've graduated from Robin and become full-fledged hero.
> 
> It's the same case with Tim. Someone I know on twitter said that with Damian's loss on Robin title and Bendis leaving, it's the best opportunity for Tim to discard Drake title (which nobody likes) and reclaim Robin title. But I think it will be Tim's character regression. Like or not, he already separated himself from Batman sidekick status and become full-fledged hero, first as Red Robin, and now as Drake.
> 
> (But on the other hand, on latest Young Justice issue Tim's teammate called him Robin. I already give up on understanding Bendis's way of thinking


I think Tim didn't really want stop being Robin, (in this new universe he never was, is this right?), so he could want to be, Bruce enjoy more working with him than Damian... I prefer Duke like Signal too, but in the same way Dick needed to be Batman for a while, Duke being Robin would be good for increase character apparitions.

If Damian really stop being Robin, who could be the new Robin?

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> This picture is debuted on latest DC comic issues like Nightwing annual 3, Young Justice, Batman and The Outsiders, etc. Not gonna lie, at first i thought that meme is fan made, like Batman slap social distancing version. Turns out it's official from DC. It's funny because it's true, it's hurt because it's true, so I don't know I want to laugh or cry.
> 
> I wonder if they will use that meme on Teen Titans annual...


Batman is smiling  :Frown:

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> If they make Tim Robin again he's officially the guy who can't evolve and move on.
> How old is he right now? 17? 
> It would actually be a pretty sad statement about his character if DC makes him Robin again.
> But Bendis making terrible decisions is nothing new I guess.


I don't think would be terrible, woud be a more soft Batman & Robin too, again, this can be temporary and make Tim even more share of what he wants. He don't know very well who he wants to be now. "I am not Robin, I am Red Robin" don't is a no "move on" already? I really have a feeling that would be better if he became a Robin and decid to quit instead he needed to became Red Robin just because Dick chose Damian like Robin when Batman "died".

I just tought in Jason and Damian both calling he "replacement".

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> By the way, Tynion likes Tim. With Damian quitting and becoming something else, he really can be used as Robin after Joker War. It's another example of stagnation, but it really can happen. Anyway, it's, probably, the biggest problem with Damian is because each Batman writer just not interested in character. Snyder didn't want to write him and obviously wanted to have Duke as Robin, and I'm sure he was pissed by his ressurection. King doesn't care about anyone expect Selina. And Tynion, as I said, likes Tim more, but in this case I believe he's better option that the first couple.
> And there is a positive here. If Damian really becomes completely independent, it is possible that they will do an ongoing about him next year.


Let me ask one thing, If the writer DON'T like the character why he need to work writting in a comic about him? Who decides it? DC? It's a american comic thing or other thing? Don't make more sense have someone that like the character and a editor for balanced?

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> It's not a case of Batman writers not liking him [both Synder and King use him more often than any other family members outside of Dick]
> 
> It's just that DC decided in the 90's to make Robin an independent hero. Robin hasn't been a regular in the Batman title since the 90's Robin series was introduced in the 90's. Morrison brought the dynamic duo back for Batman and Robin Reborn but that and Tomasi's Batman and Robin volumes were specials.
> 
> Other than that series the dynamic duo have really only been in outside titles and cross overs.
> 
> It really would be funny and poetic if Tim replaced Damian as Robin lol.


ironic, right??

----------


## Astralabius

> I don't think would be terrible, woud be a more soft Batman & Robin too, again, this can be temporary and make Tim even more share of what he wants. He don't know very well who he wants to be now. "I am not Robin, I am Red Robin" don't is a no "move on" already? I really have a feeling that would be better if he became a Robin and decid to quit instead he needed to became Red Robin just because Dick chose Damian like Robin when Batman "died".
> 
> I just tought in Jason and Damian both calling he "replacement".


He left the role over ten years ago, he should have moved on already.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I think we've already established that Damian is a complete different Robin than his predecessor. Unlike Dick, Jason pre-crowbar, and Tim, Damian's character is too dominating, well that's expected when you combine control-freak Bruce genes with Daughter of Demons gene. He will never want to be underneath anyone, Ra's Talia, even Bruce, that's why we often see Damian and Bruce butting their heads like a pair of bulls. And that's why he gets along with Dick, because Dick as Batman never force Damian to accept him as his leader. And yes, Bruce's harsh and control freak attitude maybe make him look menacing, but combine that with 13 years old (and very short) body, the results is just a boy who is so annoying. Competent of course, but annoying. Sure he has his good, compassionate side, but you will not see it on him on first glance, and he will not show it to you on your first met. That's why he work best on duo, even though Dick found him annoying, Steph found him annoying, Jon found him annoying, they still stay on his side and slowly learn the goodness on his character. But on team, if Damian annoys you, you just can ignore him and hang out with other teammates you like more, and the result is Damian will be isolated from the team. Happened in all of his experience on 3 Teen Titans team.


Agree. Love him, but annoying. But, about being in a team, one thing I love is that he believe in the teammates, he put pression for beliving in a potention that even they don't believe. When he went for the first TT he said they are going to be even better than Justice League, any character agreed with him. It's not enough for make him a good leader, but will be powerfull when he control his "annoying".

*Of coooourse he has this killing all close peoples poison, but he think it a perfect normal thing.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Damian will always struggle with new people and social skills. that's just who he is. He is afterall a sort of parody of Bruce. 
> 
> With his origin and being a Bat Optimistic is rarely the direction writers will choose. For some reason it's always angsty in the Batman verse.
> I hope to see more of his friends and wouldn't mind some positive and happy tales but the stories where he struggles and gets challenged keep things interesting.


I don't think him like a parody of Batman.
Batman avoid be close of peoples - Damian go looking for peoples, he wants attention, to be seeing, to be respect and want that everybody know how much he is the better. (He just can't talk about feelings.)
Batman is hush - Damian can't stop talking, show his klowledge when no one ask, he makes a point of pointing out the mistakes of others
Batman thinks no one can do nothing without him - Damian believe in others capacities
Batman don't ask for help - Damian ask in a way that make other person thinking he is doing a favor.
Batman is smart and don't underestimate enemies - Damian never learn stop underestimate even the most strongger villains (never).

The most common thing for me is both are stubborn.

----------


## dietrich

> Agree, but Batman needs a Robin, if Damian go way I think Duke is the better choice?


Batman doesn't need a Robin. He said so himself. Which was why Duke became Signal something better.

The only Robin batman ever needed was Dick.

----------


## dietrich

> Let me ask one thing, If the writer DON'T like the character why he need to work writting in a comic about him? Who decides it? DC? It's a american comic thing or other thing? Don't make more sense have someone that like the character and a editor for balanced?


Dc decides eg. Tynion's batman /TMNT doesn't like Damian [says he finds it difficult to write him even though he writes a good Damian] but since Damian is Robin Dc wanted him to be in the book with batman so Tynion has no choice but to use him if he wants the job

if a writer is big enough then he can decide eg Synder's pitched a Nightwing book and his Metal/Death Metal, Tomasi writing batman and Robin 

Some writers might take a job writing a character they don't like because it's a good move professionally eg King on batman.

Writers use the characters that work best in their books or with the stories they wish to write eg king was supposed to use Duke in his Rebirth Batman [Synder his creator was instrumental in getting him his batman gig ] but the story he wanted to focus on ended up not having a place for Duke.

----------


## dietrich

If Damian gives up Robin then he can't take on another hero name unless he is to become an antagonist to Batman. 
Damian is 13 and Bruce's kid. Giving up Robin means that his POV or methods are no longer in sync. Which by extension means that he and batman are no longer in sync making him an antagonist or at best a Red Hood type.

Batman will not support Damian becoming an independent hero because HE IS 13 so it's either grounded while father and son work things out or he goes rouge.

----------


## CPSparkles

> If Damian gives up Robin then he can't take on another hero name unless he is to become an antagonist to Batman. 
> Damian is 13 and Bruce's kid. Giving up Robin means that his POV or methods are no longer in sync. Which by extension means that he and batman are no longer in sync making him an antagonist or at best a Red Hood type.
> 
> Batman will not support Damian becoming an independent hero because HE IS 13 so it's either grounded while father and son work things out or he goes rouge.


He can't hero without his parental figures consent so yeah any crime fighting would be Damian disobeying Bruce  or the two parting ways.

Well he does have a Mother and if Slade still interested in mentoring him there's a new direction lol

I hope he doesn't take on a different persona just be damian for sometime.

----------


## CPSparkles

> He left the role over ten years ago, he should have moved on already.


Accordsing to Bendis Tim is getting yet another identity. It might be Robin. Tim clearly can't move on and a large subsection of fans can't move on so while it's regression I don't think those fans mind.

The same fans who every week make lots of threads hoping, saying or suggesting it's time for Damian to die or get lost so Tim can be Robin again and the shortest bat again

----------


## Astralabius

> If Damian gives up Robin then he can't take on another hero name unless he is to become an antagonist to Batman. 
> Damian is 13 and Bruce's kid. Giving up Robin means that his POV or methods are no longer in sync. Which by extension means that he and batman are no longer in sync making him an antagonist or at best a Red Hood type.
> 
> Batman will not support Damian becoming an independent hero because HE IS 13 so it's either grounded while father and son work things out or he goes rouge.


Exactly.
And Damian as a Batman antagonist would be ridiculous. As if DC would let Damian ever be a serious threat to Batman.

DC plans most things from Batman's perspective. I don't believe there is anything good waiting for Damian if he decides to go rogue.

----------


## Astralabius

> Accordsing to Bendis Tim is getting yet another identity. It might be Robin. Tim clearly can't move on and a large subsection of fans can't move on so while it's regression I don't think those fans mind.
> 
> The same fans who every week make lots of threads hoping, saying or suggesting it's time for Damian to die or get lost so Tim can be Robin again and the shortest bat again


It's okay if I people hate me for this, but hardcore Tim fans are probably the most annoying side of the batman fandom to me. The character is okay, but some of the fans...

----------


## Light of Justice

> Accordsing to Bendis Tim is getting yet another identity. It might be Robin. Tim clearly can't move on and a large subsection of fans can't move on so while it's regression I don't think those fans mind.
> 
> The same fans who every week make lots of threads hoping, saying or suggesting it's time for Damian to die or get lost so Tim can be Robin again and the shortest bat again


Oh for the love of God, Bendis really said that? On where? I don't really mind if Tim will get his Robin title back but please not under Bendis's writing.

At this point, I'm not surprised if Damian will outgrown Tim, not only on height but also on age. I can see DC will age-up Damian if they want to make him as villain or independent hero and Tim is 16 years old for like eternity.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Exactly.
> And Damian as a Batman antagonist would be ridiculous. As if DC would let Damian ever be a serious threat to Batman.
> 
> DC plans most things from Batman's perspective. I don't believe there is anything good waiting for Damian if he decides to go rogue.


Not that I agree with DC's possible plan to make Damian villain, but why do you think Damian as Batman's antagonist is ridiculous and DC will not do it? DC has multiple plots when the hero's relatives become the hero's antagonist. Also, Damian has connection with Ra's, one of Batman's greatest antagonist. I can see DC will make Damian become villain and face Bruce for drama and shock value. 
I agree with you though, Damian will only have bad thing waiting for him if he become Batman's villain

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Not that I agree with DC's possible plan to make Damian villain, but why do you think Damian as Batman's antagonist is ridiculous and DC will not do it? DC has multiple plots when the hero's relatives become the hero's antagonist. Also, Damian has connection with Ra's, one of Batman's greatest antagonist. I can see DC will make Damian become villain and face Bruce for drama and shock value. 
> I agree with you though, Damian will only have bad thing waiting for him if he become Batman's villain


He is 13, I agree would be ridiculous if he became Batman's antagonist, because... he is 13. Looks like Batman don't get it, maybe because don't show in Damian birthdays (lol), but he can't understand when Damian was just 10 too. Just worst father ever. I think Damian can, and will became a antagonist in future, but right now is more possible he disappears for a time and come back as a bad guy. There is still the "baby Hitler" thing, right?
I hate how Damian is always in pain in future, like Batman 666, in the movie, Terry's comics, the only time this didn't happen was in Super Sons, but he was toooo old, don't means he had a good life before 70. I would enjoy Damian happy for decided his own path and fall in love and being corresponded, and keep who he likes close. Don't need to be a long storie, just one "future chapter" more happier than this others I talked.

----------


## Morgoth

They won't make him a villain. If Didio would be in charge, I would believe in that, he adored to destroy everything he hated, even if that was something popular. And also he wanted to give Batman mantle to Luke, and obviously, Damian's presence clearly interfered with this initiative. But right now, that makes no sense, 5G is dead, Luke-Batmam is cancelled. Make him an antihero? Yes, I will believe it. Making him an antagonist is a shitty business decision. He is popular. If that would be different, he would not have been resurrected at the first place, Morrison didn't plan it. Supersons, for example, were sold at the level of Wonder Woman at one time, I dont know how it is with the Titans, but its interesting to see a comparison of sales with Tims period in the team. And Damian is easier to use in the media, it was not for nothing that he was made one of the main faces of DCAMU, he is introduced into the Harley series and the Batman / TMNT crossover for a reason. He's easier to sell and he has a fan base, which, for example, has been besieging DC for two years, yelling for the Supersons to be returned.
I dont know what will happen with him after Death Metal (we just have to look forward there), but Im sure that they will not make him a villain. This just doesn't make any sense. Maybe they would have done it with joy, but money also need to be made. Who knows, maybe after Joker War Dick will replace Bruce again, and he will become Nightwing, now there is such a chance, because the ending of Joker War should definitely hit something very big, and the original plan was originally Bruce's resignation.

----------


## Astralabius

> Not that I agree with DC's possible plan to make Damian villain, but why do you think Damian as Batman's antagonist is ridiculous and DC will not do it? DC has multiple plots when the hero's relatives become the hero's antagonist. Also, Damian has connection with Ra's, one of Batman's greatest antagonist. I can see DC will make Damian become villain and face Bruce for drama and shock value. 
> I agree with you though, Damian will only have bad thing waiting for him if he become Batman's villain


Because he is 13 and looks 10. What an epic battle that would be.

----------


## Light of Justice

> He is 13, I agree would be ridiculous if he became Batman's antagonist, because... he is 13. Looks like Batman don't get it, maybe because don't show in Damian birthdays (lol), but he can't understand when Damian was just 10 too. Just worst father ever. I think Damian can, and will became a antagonist in future, but right now is more possible he disappears for a time and come back as a bad guy. There is still the "baby Hitler" thing, right?
> I hate how Damian is always in pain in future, like Batman 666, in the movie, Terry's comics, the only time this didn't happen was in Super Sons, but he was toooo old, don't means he had a good life before 70. I would enjoy Damian happy for decided his own path and fall in love and being corresponded, and keep who he likes close. Don't need to be a long storie, just one "future chapter" more happier than this others I talked.


Perhaps they will age-up Damian like they did with Jon. Hell, they didn't hesitate to write 10 years old got tortured on volcano planet for 5 years, they can pull the same stunt to Damian and make him get tortured somewhere for a long time, but unlike Jon (even though I still think that's impossible even for him), Damian will get messed up on head. Then add bonus point of angst to Bruce by write him blames himself for letting that happen to his son. 
Man, sometimes I'm scared of my own idea.

Damian in Terry's comic is not very bad I think. He got LoA's assets, cool costume, and Bathug. The whole plot is basically he built a nuke and announce it to the world so Terry will come to him, then because Bruce knew that Terry is no match for Damian, he also went to stop Damian. On that book, Damian knew that Bruce is alive and active from his bank account activity, and Bruce also knew Damian alive as Demon Head because he's the greatest detective in the world. But both of them didn't want to approach the other first (Damian tried but Terry is already on Bruce's side), hence the nuke.
Sigh, why must they wait for something to get exploded first for them to talk with each other? 

In Supersons, that future is created by Hypercube imagination (who is apparently a JonDami shipper), so not canon, but I agree that it's refreshing to see Damian grow old together with his best friend and shares stories with their grandchildren.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> He left the role over ten years ago, he should have moved on already.


ok, 10 years is a lot of time, I didn't know that.
Why Drake stoped being Drake (the hero)? I liked the outfit...



And this is totally his own path because he is... DRAKE!

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Batman doesn't need a Robin. He said so himself. Which was why Duke became Signal something better.
> 
> The only Robin batman ever needed was Dick.


Ok, Batman don't _need_ a Robin, but it's a thing they keep saying. So for me is logic that writers don't give up of a "dinamic duo".

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Dc decides eg. Tynion's batman /TMNT doesn't like Damian [says he finds it difficult to write him even though he writes a good Damian] but since Damian is Robin Dc wanted him to be in the book with batman so Tynion has no choice but to use him if he wants the job
> 
> if a writer is big enough then he can decide eg Synder's pitched a Nightwing book and his Metal/Death Metal, Tomasi writing batman and Robin 
> 
> Some writers might take a job writing a character they don't like because it's a good move professionally eg King on batman.
> 
> Writers use the characters that work best in their books or with the stories they wish to write eg king was supposed to use Duke in his Rebirth Batman [Synder his creator was instrumental in getting him his batman gig ] but the story he wanted to focus on ended up not having a place for Duke.


I dunno, this systen still make no sense for me. Everybody know Gabriel Picollo? He loves TT so much, you can see this in his drawings and when he talks about his work. When a wiriter say "yeah, I don't like him, but I will try work well" sounds terrible.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> They won't make him a villain. If Didio would be in charge, I would believe in that, he adored to destroy everything he hated, even if that was something popular. And also he wanted to give Batman mantle to Luke, and obviously, Damian's presence clearly interfered with this initiative. But right now, that makes no sense, 5G is dead, Luke-Batmam is cancelled. Make him an antihero? Yes, I will believe it. Making him an antagonist is a shitty business decision. He is popular. If that would be different, he would not have been resurrected at the first place, Morrison didn't plan it. Supersons, for example, were sold at the level of Wonder Woman at one time, I don’t know how it is with the Titans, but it’s interesting to see a comparison of sales with Tim’s period in the team. And Damian is easier to use in the media, it was not for nothing that he was made one of the main faces of DCAMU, he is introduced into the Harley series and the Batman / TMNT crossover for a reason. He's easier to sell and he has a fan base, which, for example, has been besieging DC for two years, yelling for the Supersons to be returned.
> I don’t know what will happen with him after Death Metal (we just have to look forward there), but I’m sure that they will not make him a villain. This just doesn't make any sense. Maybe they would have done it with joy, but money also need to be made. Who knows, maybe after Joker War Dick will replace Bruce again, and he will become Nightwing, now there is such a chance, because the ending of Joker War should definitely hit something very big, and the original plan was originally Bruce's resignation.


I try to keep my expectations low, but I am so anxious to see what will happen. I keep saying this is gonna be a terryble sad ending, but still have some many possibilities for being something nice.
But I don't think a character being popular can hold him. Alfred is dead Dick is Ric and Bruce stayed like 2 years without showing up. I guess they can erase anyone, simplily when a fan base decrease another increase. I think Tim is still more popular than Damian.

----------


## dietrich

> Oh for the love of God, Bendis really said that? On where? I don't really mind if Tim will get his Robin title back but please not under Bendis's writing.
> 
> At this point, I'm not surprised if Damian will outgrown Tim, not only on height but also on age. I can see DC will age-up Damian if they want to make him as villain or independent hero and Tim is 16 years old for like eternity.


I recall something on his twitter page recently. I believe the link is available on the Tim Drake thread and on here. It's the same interview where he says he has more plans for Damian and Talia in Leviathan

The link should be on the last couple of pages of the Tim thread on tthis site

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Perhaps they will age-up Damian like they did with Jon. Hell, they didn't hesitate to write 10 years old got tortured on volcano planet for 5 years, they can pull the same stunt to Damian and make him get tortured somewhere for a long time, but unlike Jon (even though I still think that's impossible even for him), Damian will get messed up on head. Then add bonus point of angst to Bruce by write him blames himself for letting that happen to his son. 
> Man, sometimes I'm scared of my own idea.
> 
> Damian in Terry's comic is not very bad I think. He got LoA's assets, cool costume, and Bathug. The whole plot is basically he built a nuke and announce it to the world so Terry will come to him, then because Bruce knew that Terry is no match for Damian, he also went to stop Damian. On that book, Damian knew that Bruce is alive and active from his bank account activity, and Bruce also knew Damian alive as Demon Head because he's the greatest detective in the world. But both of them didn't want to approach the other first (Damian tried but Terry is already on Bruce's side), hence the nuke.
> Sigh, why must they wait for something to get exploded first for them to talk with each other? 
> 
> In Supersons, that future is created by Hypercube imagination (who is apparently a JonDami shipper), so not canon, but I agree that it's refreshing to see Damian grow old together with his best friend and shares stories with their grandchildren.


No... Still too bad for me, ah, I forgot it was Hypercube imagination :/ So, no happy life for Dami at now...

----------


## Korath

> Accordsing to Bendis Tim is getting yet another identity. It might be Robin. Tim clearly can't move on and a large subsection of fans can't move on so while it's regression I don't think those fans mind.
> 
> The same fans who every week make lots of threads hoping, saying or suggesting it's time for Damian to die or get lost so Tim can be Robin again and the shortest bat again


Which shows once and for all that Tim is not a great character. he's made to be Robin and can't be anything else with any sort of success... And if Damian gets a really great new identity, at the next reboot/change of reality, I expect him to be the Robin *before* Tim.

----------


## dietrich

> It's okay if I people hate me for this, but hardcore Tim fans are probably the most annoying side of the batman fandom to me. The character is okay, but some of the fans...


Agree.

The Robin fandom is pretty toxic in general due to been forced to compete against each other but fans of certain Robins [the ones who feel like they are treated like DC's red headed middle kid] can be extreme and just take it too far.

I recall what some Tim fans did to Duke here  or a Jason fan who tried to rig a favourite Robin poll on here just so Damian doesn't win or something.
That is pathetic and unhealthy. These characters are fictional. 

No one likes seeing their favourite treated/written badly but when you find yourself attempting to rig something like a useless comic forum poll or calling for another characters death then it's time to find another hobby.

----------


## Morgoth

> I think Tim is still more popular than Damian.


No, he's not. The maximum they are equal now, but obviously he's not more popular. He was, but he’s been used much less for a long time, plus, during New 52 his character was pretty hurt. Damian was used way more than him, that says something.
No one will erase him, relax. We're getting reboot anyway, he obviously will have a place there. Maybe even better, than anyone think. We just have to wait. 



> But I don't think a character being popular can hold him. Alfred is dead Dick is Ric and Bruce stayed like 2 years without showing up.


All of that was Didio's decisions, especially with Dick. They kicked his ass out of company. So, I believe we'll see some changes.

----------


## dietrich

> Which shows once and for all that Tim is not a great character. he's made to be Robin and can't be anything else with any sort of success... And if Damian gets a really great new identity, at the next reboot/change of reality, I expect him to be the Robin *before* Tim.


Is Bendis even trying though. Bendis keeps talking about how Tim is the best Robin. *is not was*
He still sees Tim as Robin.
Much of fandom and even artists working for DC still default to Tim Robin when drawing or writing him. I find that interesting. These people rardless of everything still see Tim as Robin or co-Robin which sadly means he'll never move on

----------


## dietrich

> No, he's not. The maximum they are equal now, but obviously he's not more popular. He was, but he’s been used much less for a long time, plus, during New 52 his character was pretty hurt. Damian was used way more than him, that says something.
> No one will erase him, relax. We're getting reboot anyway, he obviously will have a place there. Maybe even better, than anyone think. We just have to wait. 
> 
> All of that was Didio's decisions, especially with Dick. They kicked his ass out of company. So, I believe we'll see some changes.


Tim isn't anywhere as popular as Damian or any of the other Robins.
Not only is he not as popular, most of the general public don't even know he is a thing

Tim's lack of outside media exposure means that he is largely unknown to the world out side of comics.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Which shows once and for all that Tim is not a great character. he's made to be Robin and can't be anything else with any sort of success... And if Damian gets a really great new identity, at the next reboot/change of reality, I expect him to be the Robin *before* Tim.


Then his origin must get some changes. Tim became Robin because of Batman's grieving over Jason's death. To put Damian between Jason's Robin period and Tim's Robin period, I don't know how that will work.

I think that's why Tim story is so difficult to get featured on other media such as live action TV or animation movie. His origin is heavily related to Robins before him, so to explain Tim's origin they must include Dick and Jason and that will increased the budget.

----------


## Morgoth

> Is Bendis even trying though. Bendis keeps talking about how Tim is the best Robin. *is not was*
> He still sees Tim as Robin.
> Much of fandom and even artists working for DC still default to Tim Robin when drawing or writing him. I find that interesting. These people rardless of everything still see Tim as Robin or co-Robin which sadly means he'll never move on


Well, Bendis isn't writing Batman (but he leaves Superman next year and we don't know, where will he go next, damn), so, he can talk whatever he want)
Anyway, all Robins are awesome. I just hope that they'll do better things for both of them after reboot.

----------


## dietrich

> Then his origin must have some changes. Tim became Robin because of Batman's grieving over Jason's death. To put Damian between Jason's Robin period and Tim's Robin period, I don't know how that will work.
> 
> I think that's why Tim story is so difficult to get featured on other media such as live action TV or animation movie. His origin is heavily related to Robins before him, so to explain Tim's origin they must include Dick and Jason and that will increased the budget.


That is an origin that DC has been kicking back against.
new 52 erased it.

It makes batman look very bad.

I think DC would pay someone to help them get rid of that... Hold on they did. 

They can just change his origin

----------


## dietrich

> Well, Bendis isn't writing Batman (but he leaves Superman next year and we don't know, where will he go next, damn), so, he can talk whatever he want)
> Anyway, all Robins are awesome. I just hope that they'll do better things for both of them after reboot.


Robin isn't in Batman.
Robin was in YJ and bendis is still going to be writing YJ

DC isn't having a Reboot are they? 

I assumed Death metal might lead to the fractured Dc time being mended but didn't know it was a reboot.

----------


## Morgoth

> Robin isn't in Batman.
> Robin was in YJ and bendis is still going to be writing YJ


I guess Tim is not gonna stay there next year.
But again, he can talk whatever he wants, but at the end it's not him, who chooses Batfamily's direction, so, it doesn't really matter right now if he sees him as true Robin or doesn't. 
By the way, I think, that the best option is get rid of Robin title at all. Just give Damian and Tim new aliases (Drake is horrible).

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> No, he's not. The maximum they are equal now, but obviously he's not more popular. He was, but he’s been used much less for a long time, plus, during New 52 his character was pretty hurt. Damian was used way more than him, that says something.
> No one will erase him, relax. We're getting reboot anyway, he obviously will have a place there. Maybe even better, than anyone think. We just have to wait. 
> 
> All of that was Didio's decisions, especially with Dick. They kicked his ass out of company. So, I believe we'll see some changes.


DC real life Team looks like a mexican novel. but think about this.

There is Black Panter movie:
1 - They made the movie because the character was popular?
2 - The movie was made and the character became more popular?

Aquaman is the best exemple of how a character that nobody have deep interest can become popular.
Big Companys can decide what peoples wants, I think Steve Jobs said this.

"No one will erase him, relax. We're getting reboot anyway, he obviously will have a place there. Maybe even better, than anyone think. We just have to wait. " But I will save this phrase in my heart, you was the first person making me be otimistic of the next issues (>TuT)>

----------


## dietrich

> I guess Tim is not gonna stay there next year.
> But again, he can talk whatever he wants, but at the end it's not him, who chooses Batfamily's direction, so, it doesn't really matter right now if he sees him as true Robin or doesn't. 
> By the way, I think, that the best option is get rid of Robin title at all. Just give Damian and Tim new aliases (Drake is horrible).


The point I was trying to make is that part of Tim's inability to move and the hate/bias against Damian as Robin is due to the writers and fans.

----------


## king81992

> Which shows once and for all that Tim is not a great character. he's made to be Robin and can't be anything else with any sort of success... And if Damian gets a really great new identity, at the next reboot/change of reality, I expect him to be the Robin *before* Tim.


Tim getting a new identity/going back to Robin or Red Robin is just Bendis caving in and catering to butthurt fans who dislike the codename 'Drake'. In my humble opinion Drake is a better codename than Red Robin. Drake sounds slightly intimidating while Red Robin makes me think of an overpriced fast food restaurant.

----------


## Digifiend

> Then why Bendis give him new identity name, when in the end no one will use it? That's the part I don't understand about Tim's Bendis.


The original plan was for Tim to be called Drake. Fans didn't like it - my problem personally is the fact it kind of gives away his secret identity, since it's actually his surname! Anyway, Bendis responded by having Steph dislike Tim's changes. Prompting him to change back to Robin again. I won't be surprised if this gets resolved in that issue focusing on those two.




> I think Tim didn't really want stop being Robin, (in this new universe he never was, is this right?),


Tim was never Robin in New 52, but his original origin was restored in Tynion's Detective Comics in Rebirth, so now, he was.

----------


## godisawesome

> The point I was trying to make is that part of Tim's inability to move and the hate/bias against Damian as Robin is due to the writers and fans.


If I can offer my personal nuanced view of it as a Tim fan... I actually dont have any problem at all with Damian as Robin, and actually still want him in the role, and I dont think Im alone in that. In fact, I really *really* want more stories where Tims a graduated a Robin who still doesnt really get along with Damian, and Damian doesnt get along with him, but where theyve clearly moved on to more vitriolic brothers than adversaries or literary rivals.

I think the problem is that the Red Robin role for Tim got poisoned and sabotaged by the New 52, making a perhaps shakey but until-then-successful transition and placement in the family go from a pretty good state of affairs to a somewhat untenable one, and one that no one, not even Tynion, seems to really know how to fix.

Red Robin before Flashpoint = a Nightwing-style solo character with his own supporting cast and mission statement, and mostly just evolving from the semi-autonomous role he had before he put on the cowl becoming a truly autonomous one... which actually worked out great in conjunction with Damian as Dicks partner - they had different functions that fit their characterizations better.

Red Robin after Flashpoint = an attempt to make Tim an ensemble-exclusive character, but by largely killing off the evolution he had beforehand to get there and losing track of his voice. This soured most people on the identity change, and the mistake made with Rebirth was trying to renounce the change entirely, to the point where the only thing acknowledging it was a double R on his Robin suit... but not doing so by addressing his relationship vis-a-vie Damian.

*That*, intentionally or not, emphasized the old fandom rivalry people had when Damian first showed up, and seemed to make them alternatives to each other from very different philosophies about how to write Robin. Then Bendis went in and dropped even the bare pretense for a few issues and just christened him Robin again... and then promptly chose both a dubious new name to elevate him to and a half-baked explanation (Drake really would have seemed more believable if it were a dragon reference, and not an attempt to make Ducks badass without first calling them Donald.)

...I still kind of feel like if you slapped a cowl on Tim again, called him Red Robin, embraced the idea hes got to be 18 at this point, that would still be a more workable solution than what theyve been doing so far, and would immediately lend itself much more to Gates of Gotham-style hijinks between Tim and Damian, rather than someone trying to make two boys with nearly identical costumes look vaguely different.

----------


## dietrich

> If I can offer my personal nuanced view of it as a Tim fan... I actually don’t have any problem at all with Damian as Robin, and actually still want him in the role, and I don’t think I’m alone in that. In fact, I really *really* want more stories where Tim’s a graduated a Robin who still doesn’t really get along with Damian, and Damian doesn’t get along with him, but where they’ve clearly moved on to more vitriolic brothers than adversaries or literary rivals.
> 
> I think the problem is that the “Red Robin” role for Tim got poisoned and sabotaged by the New 52, making a perhaps shakey but until-then-successful transition and placement in the family go from a pretty good state of affairs to a somewhat untenable one, and one that no one, not even Tynion, seems to really know how to fix.
> 
> Red Robin before Flashpoint = a Nightwing-style solo character with his own supporting cast and mission statement, and mostly just evolving from the semi-autonomous role he had before he put on the cowl becoming a truly autonomous one... which actually worked out great in conjunction with Damian as Dick’s partner - they had different functions that fit their characterizations better.
> 
> Red Robin after Flashpoint = an attempt to make Tim an ensemble-exclusive character, but by largely killing off the evolution he had beforehand to get there and losing track of his voice. This soured most people on the identity change, and the mistake made with Rebirth was trying to renounce the change entirely, to the point where the only thing acknowledging it was a double R on his Robin suit... but not doing so by addressing his relationship vis-a-vie Damian.
> 
> *That*, intentionally or not, emphasized the old fandom rivalry people had when Damian first showed up, and seemed to make them alternatives to each other from very different philosophies about how to write Robin. Then Bendis went in and dropped even the bare pretense for a few issues and just christened him Robin again... and then promptly chose both a dubious new name to elevate him to and a half-baked explanation (“Drake” really would have seemed more believable if it were a dragon reference, and not an attempt to make Ducks badass without first calling them Donald.)
> ...


i honestly don't know what the problem with Red Robin was.
So what if the name reminded Americans of something else? It clearly didn't hold Tim back since he had success with the name. The red Robin solo was did well

The RR solo was imo peak Tim. I enjoyed him the most in that title.  

I don't know why bendis decided to change it. [Drake is actually a really badass name if it wasn't Tim's real name]

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> *That*, intentionally or not, emphasized the old fandom rivalry people had when Damian first showed up, and seemed to make them alternatives to each other from very different philosophies about how to write Robin. Then Bendis went in and dropped even the bare pretense for a few issues and just christened him Robin again... and then promptly chose both a dubious new name to elevate him to and a half-baked explanation (“Drake” really would have seemed more believable if it were a dragon reference, and not an attempt to make Ducks badass without first calling them Donald.)
> 
> ...I still kind of feel like if you slapped a cowl on Tim again, called him Red Robin, embraced the idea he’s got to be 18 at this point, that would still be a more workable solution than what they’ve been doing so far, and would immediately lend itself much more to Gates of Gotham-style hijinks between Tim and Damian, rather than someone trying to make two boys with nearly identical costumes look vaguely different.


But I think comics always take animals and make them cool, even a "Robin" is not cool.
I think anything can become a amazing result. Like a superman vs batman movie has all potention for be something amazing, but it was not well done; and Shazam have this ridiculous chlothes that was great in movie because the way the script was made.
 I think Tim Drake being Drake is not the problem, but how it was done. 
I don't know too much about Tim, this reboots make it even hard to understand. But I want to listen your opinion, do you think would be best for Tim became a Drake (related with Dragons)? If you could decid anything for Tim next reboot how would it be?
...
I really liked his Drake outfit, there is not many heroes using brown.

----------


## godisawesome

> i honestly don't know what the problem with Red Robin was.
> So what if the name reminded Americans of something else? It clearly didn't hold Tim back since he had success with the name. The red Robin solo was did well
> 
> The RR solo was imo peak Tim. I enjoyed him the most in that title.  
> 
> I don't know why bendis decided to change it. [Drake is actually a really badass name if it wasn't Tim's real name]


I think the “problem” with the Red Robin identity in the New 52 was that it became part of the “damaged goods” of that era for Tim, then in Rebirth it became somewhat superfluous due to the approach of his redesign.

New 52 Red Robin was unnecessarily reset so that his previous adventures couldn’t have happened (both due to fear of acknowledging the passage time of time and possibly because he was still the character most connected to the banished Stephanie Brown), and his origin was totally redone for the worst. There are very few Tim Drake fans who have good overall feelings about the entire era in which Lobdell and Booth’s take on the character reigned Supreme.

Rebirth Tim Drake, on the other hand, was put in a context where arguably he could have been Red Robin in the Pre-Flashpoint manner all the way... but in spite of Tynion reintroducing his old origin, there was still very little continuity with those runs, particularly his Red Robin solo, and he was dressed up as Robin in every way. I think his Rebirth story can show how much impact costume can have on a character’s perception: it made it feel like Tim most definitely *hadn’t* moved on from a Robin at all, so why was he called Red Robin instead?

It’s be a bit like if the New 52 had put Damian back in a crazy new costume that was infected with the 90’s in a bad way, then written very badly for a few years (as in, he becomes the victim of badly written sexual assault, has his last changed drastically for no good reason, and is written somewhat robotically), then in Rebirth got stuck back into the white jumpsuit he first showed up in, and wasn’t referred to as a Robin that much,

Damian largely got through the New 52 change okay. Weirdly, about the biggest issue he had from it was tied to Stephanie Brown too; because DC threw a hissy fit over Morrison wanting Stephanie Brown in his Spyral academy issue, Damian’s next chapter in Morrison’s story got delayed for a few months.

Personally, I think Damian could have used more crossovers with Steph, whether as Batgirl or Spoiler just because her portrayal as the compassionate but put-upon babysitter helped emphasize both Damian’s beyond-his-years badassness but tempered by how cruelly deprived his childhood had been.

Imagine Spoiler being the babysitter character for Jon and Damian at the same time!




> But I think comics always take animals and make them cool, even a "Robin" is not cool.
> I think anything can become a amazing result. Like a superman vs batman movie has all potention for be something amazing, but it was not well done; and Shazam have this ridiculous chlothes that was great in movie because the way the script was made.
>  I think Tim Drake being Drake is not the problem, but how it was done. 
> I don't know too much about Tim, this reboots make it even hard to understand. But I want to listen your opinion, do you think would be best for Tim became a Drake (related with Dragons)? If you could decid anything for Tim next reboot how would it be?
> ...
> I really liked his Drake outfit, there is not many heroes using brown.


To be blunt, if it was me? I’d just have Tim be Red Robin, put him back in the Marcus To costume, and declare his old solos had happened, and just vaguely address the inconsistencies that may arise afterwards so that if someone liked something from the New 52 or a Rebirth, they could use it, and we’d just mutter quietly about whether or not it all fits together or not.

However... if we wanted to use Drake as a new ID, I’d have it happen as part of him constructing a Red-X-from-Teen-Titans-style villainous ID he uses to infiltrate one of the assassin guilds he was running into in his Red Robin solo, using the dragon motif after some inspiration from Beowulf or Tolkien when someone points out his names more legendary connotations... and then decide he likes having the ID in his back pocket, and use it and Red Robin simultaneously for a while, while having him deal with *some* kind of personal life issue: whether that would be as “Tim Wayne” as one of Bruce’s adopted sons (in which case the Drake identity might have some psychological connotations of him trying to maintain that name somehow) running Neon Knights as in the Red Robin solo, or in talking to his now living parents every night and facing issues form being paranoid about them being hurt.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> To be blunt, if it was me? I’d just have Tim be Red Robin, put him back in the Marcus To costume, and declare his old solos had happened, and just vaguely address the inconsistencies that may arise afterwards so that if someone liked something from the New 52 or a Rebirth, they could use it, and we’d just mutter quietly about whether or not it all fits together or not.
> 
> However... if we wanted to use Drake as a new ID, I’d have it happen as part of him constructing a Red-X-from-Teen-Titans-style villainous ID he uses to infiltrate one of the assassin guilds he was running into in his Red Robin solo, using the dragon motif after some inspiration from Beowulf or Tolkien when someone points out his names more legendary connotations... and then decide he likes having the ID in his back pocket, and use it and Red Robin simultaneously for a while, while having him deal with *some* kind of personal life issue: whether that would be as “Tim Wayne” as one of Bruce’s adopted sons (in which case the Drake identity might have some psychological connotations of him trying to maintain that name somehow) running Neon Knights as in the Red Robin solo, or in talking to his now living parents every night and facing issues form being paranoid about them being hurt.


It would be very iterestanting, I don't like Tim so much, but this is balanced in Hero, spy, family, teenagers problem very well, this is double good, because we be like "will his hero ID be dicoverd? Will His Villainous ID be discored by heroes? Will his Heroes ID be discovered by villanous?" Love Red X, worked well.
AAAAND when some one discover Drake WAS Drake would be terrific.

----------


## Eckri

New to this thread but I'd like to give my thought about new aliases for Tim and Damian.
For Tim I think the alias of Drake could still work, entirely depending on the writers. 

For Damian, how about the alias Rokh? The mythological bird from Arabian mythology. It suits his heritage, plus didn't Dick originally got his Nightwing alias from Superman, which came from Kryptonian myths (correct me if I'm wrong), giving Dick and Damian something in common with two names coming from mythology. And Damian would still have a bird themed name.

----------


## godisawesome

> New to this thread but I'd like to give my thought about new aliases for Tim and Damian.
> For Tim I think the alias of Drake could still work, entirely depending on the writers. 
> 
> For Damian, how about the alias Rokh? The mythological bird from Arabian mythology. It suits his heritage, plus didn't Dick originally got his Nightwing alias from Superman, which came from Kryptonian myths (correct me if I'm wrong), giving Dick and Damian something in common with two names coming from mythology. And Damian would still have a bird themed name.


Of Damian ever took Rokh/Roc as a code name...

...Then his nickname *MUST* be...

...BIG BIRD.

----------


## dietrich

> Of Damian ever took Rokh/Roc as a code name...
> 
> ...Then his nickname *MUST* be...
> 
> ...BIG BIRD.


lol! That works on so many levels. I love it.

 :Wink:

----------


## dietrich

> New to this thread but I'd like to give my thought about new aliases for Tim and Damian.
> For Tim I think the alias of Drake could still work, entirely depending on the writers. 
> 
> For Damian, how about the alias Rokh? The mythological bird from Arabian mythology. It suits his heritage, plus didn't Dick originally got his Nightwing alias from Superman, which came from Kryptonian myths (correct me if I'm wrong), giving Dick and Damian something in common with two names coming from mythology. And Damian would still have a bird themed name.


Hi Eckri. Welcome to the Damian thread. The problem is that if Damian walks away from Robin then he is walking away from batman and everything he has built in Gotham.

Which is something I don't want to see.

I don't want Damian to get another name. I want him to Take his punishment learn from the experience and do better as Robin

----------


## Morgoth

By the way, since we were already talking about the period after the reboot (well, assuming that after Death Metal we are really waiting for large-scale changes), maybe deage will happen to Damian too? Since he gets a new alias (presumably as long as we know almost nothing), then perhaps it would have made more sense if he had become older. Perhaps this is also a loophole in order to reunite him with Jon, if there is no retcon.
In Death Metal the universe that we knew was destroyed, plus there, apparently, some time has passed since this happened. And also, by the way, Snyder said that the matured Damian will appear in Death Metal (but did not specify what version). Maybe they really decided then to make him older in new universe?

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> lol! That works on so many levels. I love it.


I don't get it, Big Bird are you being sarcastic? Just a joke because he is smoll?

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> By the way, since we were already talking about the period after the reboot (well, assuming that after Death Metal we are really waiting for large-scale changes), maybe deage will happen to Damian too? Since he gets a new alias (presumably as long as we know almost nothing), then perhaps it would have made more sense if he had become older. Perhaps this is also a loophole in order to reunite him with Jon, if there is no retcon.
> In Death Metal the universe that we knew was destroyed, plus there, apparently, some time has passed since this happened. And also, by the way, Snyder said that the matured Damian will appear in Death Metal (but did not specify what version). Maybe they really decided then to make him older in new universe?


I like the idea of Damian being much young + short for his age, I prefer keep him 13, and I prefer seeing a character grow up than a age jump, was good saw him with 11 and 12 too.
Let me ask, DC do reboot in only one universe (like just reboot Batman universe)? Because if everything is ok with other heroes stories I don't think they will reboot just because of Batfamily...
Any chance about the reboot is made by Jon and futures heroes for Damian Baby Hitler don't happens?

----------


## godisawesome

> I don't get it, Big Bird are you being sarcastic? Just a joke because he is smoll?


The Rokh/Roc creature from mythology is a bird that picks up elephants, so the irony of Damian being the shortest sidekick with an oversized code name *does* have an immediate sarcasm to it.

...But it also acts as an opposite to the “Little bird” nickname that Tim got from Shiva, and that I know at least one other Robin has somewhere.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> The Rokh/Roc creature from mythology is a bird that picks up elephants, so the irony of Damian being the shortest sidekick with an oversized code name *does* have an immediate sarcasm to it.
> 
> ...But it also acts as an opposite to the “Little bird” nickname that Tim got from Shiva, and that I know at least one other Robin has somewhere.


I am laughting now XD YES, good name for Damian.
I still think Damian could be flame bird for a while... I know everybody is saying this is not possible, but this would be he stop being Robin, keeping a "Bird" in his name, not distance himself of Batfamily, becoming the Dick-Damian duo again... don't need to be for too much time, but would be the best for Damian, right? Maybe he could be a transition between Robin and a original ID in future.

I saw this fanart one time and fall in love for the idea.

----------


## CPSparkles

> By the way, since we were already talking about the period after the reboot (well, assuming that after Death Metal we are really waiting for large-scale changes), maybe deage will happen to Damian too? Since he gets a new alias (presumably as long as we know almost nothing), then perhaps it would have made more sense if he had become older. Perhaps this is also a loophole in order to reunite him with Jon, if there is no retcon.
> In Death Metal the universe that we knew was destroyed, plus there, apparently, some time has passed since this happened. And also, by the way, Snyder said that the matured Damian will appear in Death Metal (but did not specify what version). Maybe they really decided then to make him older in new universe?


Damian isn't going to be aged up even if there is a reboot. The reason why comics hate bio kids is that they make their parents older. Bruce Batman Wayne is the thing that carries DC comics. DC doesn't want him to be aged up. That's why they keep trying to kill of Dick generation.

Supersons isn't worth Damian getting aged up wtf Damian is a lot more than Supersons.

He is an independent character as is Jon. It's a good thing that they got separated. It allows them to grow. Thet are not joined at the waist.

Supersons can still be pals Damian was 3 years older now Jon is 4 years older. It's perfect since Damian acts much older than 13

Death metal isn't a reboot
The Adult Damian in Death metal is just like Batman who laughs or the B-rex. Alternate versions from the multiverse. batman isn't about to become a T-Rex

----------


## CPSparkles

> I don't get it, Big Bird are you being sarcastic? Just a joke because he is smoll?


Dick should be Big Bird

Speaking of Nick names i like that both in comics and movies Damian is Baby Bat Given to him by Harley
Babs named him lil D
Jon  calls him D
Dick calls him Dami or Dames as does Talia

There's also Demon spawn which is  mean spirited and wrong

----------


## Astralabius

Looks like Damian's first victim will be brother blood

----------


## Korath

I know, with the current Batman and the wau he act with his family, Damian will be in a more caring and loving environment being on the loose and away from him. That's how sad the situation is...

----------


## Astralabius

> I know, with the current Batman and the wau he act with his family, Damian will be in a more caring and loving environment being on the loose and away from him. That's how sad the situation is...


With the way Bruce has been written for the past few years it's not like I personally think Damian should stay with him, but we all know how DC is.
If you go against Batman you'll probably be treated worse than if you're with him. I expect DC to continue to shit on Damian in this conflict.

----------


## Grandmaster_J

> Looks like Damian's first victim will be brother blood


Love that cover! Very similar to issue #32 but still might be one of my favorites of this run.

----------


## dietrich

Wasn't it not long ago that Damian couldn't kill Slade and refused to kill the prisoners?

Interesting. That off-panel mentoring must have been extraordinary. Damian's really trying really hard to be more like the old Jason.

Jason should be the one who does what Batman can't not Robin.  because why should any of the batboys ever have anything that sets them apart I guess

----------


## scary harpy

> New to this thread but I'd like to give my thought about new aliases for Tim and Damian.
> For Tim I think the alias of Drake could still work, entirely depending on the writers. 
> 
> For Damian, how about the alias Rokh? The mythological bird from Arabian mythology. It suits his heritage, plus didn't Dick originally got his Nightwing alias from Superman, which came from Kryptonian myths (correct me if I'm wrong), giving Dick and Damian something in common with two names coming from mythology. And Damian would still have a bird themed name.





> Of Damian ever took Rokh/Roc as a code name...
> 
> ...Then his nickname *MUST* be...
> 
> ...BIG BIRD.





> lol! That works on so many levels. I love it.





> The Rokh/Roc creature from mythology is a bird that picks up elephants, so the irony of Damian being the shortest sidekick with an oversized code name *does* have an immediate sarcasm to it.
> 
> ...But it also acts as an opposite to the Little bird nickname that Tim got from Shiva, and that I know at least one other Robin has somewhere.


Damian "the Rokh" Wayne...I love it.

----------


## Astralabius

> Wasn't it not long ago that Damian couldn't kill Slade and refused to kill the prisoners?
> 
> Interesting. That off-panel mentoring must have been extraordinary. Damian's really trying really hard to be more like the old Jason.
> 
> Jason should be the one who does what Batman can't not Robin.  because why should any of the batboys ever have anything that sets them apart I guess


I'm kinda mad this comic just expects me to buy Damian would seriously start killing that easily again, especially with that motivation. Damian should know by now you can't stop crime in DC by killing criminals.

Damian's descent into darkness is so lazy. If someone were to ask me to explain why he does any of this my honest answer would be: Because DC needs reasons to kick him out of the role. The reasons in the story are way too weak to explain Damian change in ideology.

----------


## dietrich

> I'm kinda mad this comic just expects me to buy Damian would seriously start killing that easily again, especially with that motivation. Damian should know by now you can't stop crime in DC by killing criminals.
> 
> Damian's descent into darkness is so lazy. If someone were to ask me to explain why he does any of this my honest answer would be: Because DC needs reasons to kick him out of the role. The reasons in the story are way too weak to explain Damian change in ideology.


You would be correct.

This was posted on Comic vine






https://comicvine.gamespot.com/batma...77910/?page=94

----------


## Astralabius

> You would be correct.
> 
> This was posted on Comic vine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://comicvine.gamespot.com/batma...77910/?page=94


Yeah, I already saw that, but it's not just that. A plot can be editorially mandated and still be well written and make sense for the character.
This developement doesn't make sense, I don't get why Damian acts this way. DC wanting him to act like this is literally the only explanation there is.

----------


## Astralabius

I also really don't see where Glass was exploring Damian's humanity. That would have required Glass to know what character he was writing about.

----------


## Astralabius

http://www.buzzcomics.net/showpost.p...50&postcount=1
Here is the link to the preview in case someone hasn't read it yet.

I know this is editorially mandated and he inherited this thing from Glass, but so far I'm not impressed, especially by Damian's characterization.

----------


## Astralabius

Damian's side of the conflict feels extremely forced. Batman doesn't just react. The guy has contingency plans for almost any situation for crying out loud. He's currently rebuilding the entirety of Gotham to combat the roots of crime.
And what is Damian's plan in this? Kill all the criminals to stop crime? He shouldn't be that dumb.

This comic could have been the perfect opportunity to talk about the actual problems in Bruce and Damian's relationship and instead it's wasting our time with this.

----------


## dietrich

> http://www.buzzcomics.net/showpost.p...50&postcount=1
> Here is the link to the preview in case someone hasn't read it yet.
> 
> I know this is editorially mandated and he inherited this thing from Glass, but so far I'm not impressed, especially by Damian's characterization.


That's a nice picture of Damian and Alfred.
I like Crush popping in to check on RH

Glad they touched on Damian's lack of guidance. He was at a crisis point and needed correct guidance.

----------


## dietrich

> Damian's side of the conflict feels extremely forced. Batman doesn't just react. The guy has contingency plans for almost any situation for crying out loud. He's currently rebuilding the entirety of Gotham to combat the roots of crime.
> And what is Damian's plan in this? Kill all the criminals to stop crime? He shouldn't be that dumb.
> 
> This comic could have been the perfect opportunity to talk about the actual problems in Bruce and Damian's relationship and instead it's wasting our time with this.


Batman has plans yes but he has been distracted.

Damian is looking to solve a problem that can't be solved without giving up certain allowances that is the thing.

Police states might reduce crime drastically but at a cost?
That's two Robins not named Dick that Damian's copying in this TT run

----------


## Light of Justice

> Looks like Damian's first victim will be brother blood


Not gonna lie, I like the little touch of Damian's bloodied hands, hidden from his teammates. I know I shouldn't, but it makes me excited. 



In here Thompson tries to show Crush's compassionate side, so perhaps we will get more info about Crush's goodness which will make her chosen to be their leader. I think it's better than she self-proclaimed herself to be a leader.



Seriously DC, he hasn't voice his real son argument for like ages ago, he has moved past that and acknowledge his other brothers. Stop regressing his character! I know that the cover is often not true, but still.

----------


## Astralabius

> Batman has plans yes but he has been distracted.
> 
> Damian is looking to solve a problem that can't be solved without giving up certain allowances that is the thing.
> 
> Police states might reduce crime drastically but at a cost?
> That's two Robins not named Dick that Damian's copying in this TT run


Bruce is distracted and that's why Damian starts kiling again? Sorry, not buying it.

----------


## Astralabius

Actually proves that Bruce has a point not trusting Damian. Wouldn't be suprised if DC plays it that way.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Bruce is distracted and that's why Damian starts kiling again? Sorry, not buying it.


He has learned to kill since age 3 until age 10. That's 7 years of nurturing. Unlike Bruce or Dick who see killing as a very bad thing, Damian since he was little understand that killing is the way to solve something. To get rid of crime, to get praised, to get his place, to protect his loved one, Damian doesn't hesitate to kill. He only lived on Bruce's care for like 3 years, and more on less one year he spent on hell and killing demons. You can't expect that he has the same morality as Bruce, when even on our real life, soldiers and serial killers get many many years of therapy to abandon their instinct to kill. The only thing that stops him for killing is Dick and Bruce's tutelage and his desire to honor them. Now Dick is gone, and Bruce refused to kill KGBeast, much to Damian's disappointment. He saw Alfred died in front of him, and Alfred is the one who repeatedly soothed Damian that Bruce cares for him. His anchors is all gone, he saw many bad thing happened in front of his eyes and he did nothing, now he's frustrated. 

He's 13 almost 14 probably, the critical age when someone just feel impatient and frustrated of everything. Time like this, he really needs guidance, and Bruce is distracted, Dick hasn't back yet, Talia MIA, and Alfred died. He already tried to find a loophole from his father no-killing rule with his prison and mind wiping, but both of the ways is still wrong. They're still not enough. So maybe now he just pulls a giant 'F*ck You' and follow his instinct.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Actually proves that Bruce has a point not trusting Damian. Wouldn't be suprised if DC plays it that way.


If he doesn't trust Damian he should watch over him. He ignored Damian, let him carry the guilt of Alfred's death on his shoulder, only called him when Batman needs help. Now when Damian goes wild if Bruce acts like he gets betrayed by Damian I will seriously throw something.

Ignorance is not a sign of trust. Ignorance is a sign of lack of care.

----------


## Astralabius

> He has learned to kill since age 3 until age 10. That's 7 years of nurturing. Unlike Bruce or Dick who see killing as a very bad thing, Damian since he was little understand that killing is the way to solve something. To get rid of crime, to get praised, to get his place, to protect his loved one, Damian doesn't hesitate to kill. He only lived on Bruce's care for like 3 years, and more on less one year he spent on hell and killing demons. The only thing that stops him for killing is Dick and Bruce's tutelage and his desire to honor them. Now Dick is gone, and Bruce refused to kill KGBeast, much to Damian's disappointment. He saw Alfred died in front of him, and Alfred is the one who repeatedly soothed Damian that Bruce cares for him. His anchors is all gone, he saw many bad thing happened in front of his eyes and he did nothing, now he's frustrated. 
> 
> He's 13 almost 14 probably, the critical age when someone just feel impatient and frustrated of everything. Time like this, he really needs guidance, and Bruce is distracted, Dick hasn't back yet, Talia MIA, and Alfred died. He already tried to find a loophole from his father no-killing rule with his prison and mind wiping, but both of the ways is still wrong. They're still not enough. So maybe now he just pulls a giant 'F*ck You' and follow his instinct.


Damian was in a similar situation in Robin: Son of Batman and didn't go full psycho on anybody. He also learned for himself that killing criminals is taking away the chance to reform from them, like he did.

Also, would have been really nice to explore some of these things as triggers for Damian's behavior around the time those things actually happened, not months later when nobody cares about this anymore.
The official reasons for why Damian started going down this path are No Justice and the restaurant owner getting killed. All the other stuff is mainly fans trying to make sense of Damian's actions. It's not in the book.
And Alfred as guidance? Alfred was alive for most of the events of this book and did nothing. Remember their last conversation in this? The one where Alfred did nothing and compared him to Ra's Al Ghul?
Sorry, this is coming way too late to serve as explanation.

----------


## Astralabius

> If he doesn't trust Damian he should watch over him. He ignored Damian, let him carry the guilt of Alfred's death on his shoulder, only called him when Batman needs help. Now when Damian went wild if Bruce acted like he gets betrayed by Damian I will seriously throw something.
> 
> Ignorance is not a sign of trust. Ignorance is a sign of lack of care.


Usually I would agree, but I doubt that DC is playing it like that. Bruce gets away with pretty terrible behavior all the time because he's Batman. DC is just out to destroy Damian right now.

DC doesn't treat Bruce and Damian equally.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Damian was in a similar situation in Robin: Son of Batman and didn't go full psycho on anybody. He also learned for himself that killing criminals is taking away the chance to reform from them, like he did.
> 
> Also, would have been really nice to explore some of these things as triggers for Damian's behavior around the time those things actually happened, not months later when nobody cares about this anymore.
> Also, the official reasons for why Damian started going down this path are No Justice and the restaurant owner getting killed. All the other stuff is mainly fans trying to make sense of Damian's actions. It's not in the book.
> Also Alfred as guidance? Alfred was alive for most of the events of this book and did nothing. Remember their last conversation in this? The one where Alfred did nothing and compared him to Ra's Al Ghul?
> Sorry, this is coming way too late to serve as explanation.


Yes, the problem is apparently DC current era ignored Robin : Son of Batman entirely. Maya is nowhere on sight, Goliath is nowhere on sight, I don't think they realized Suren's existence. I think we have to accept that DC just want to destroy Damian's development. On this rebirth, he's repeatedly shown to be ruthless and didn't care much of villain's lives. Even on Kate's judgement family discussion, he didn't pick any side and only throwing insult as distraction.

I never said that Alfred ever guided Damian. As much as Batfam fandom portray him as Holy Saint, The Best of The Best or something, he's passive as heck. Like Damian said, he just reacted. Hell, he didn't even guide Bruce when he build his own secret prison, how can anyone expect him guide Damian? Well, he only did his butler's job, protect his master, console his master, prepare his master's need, etc. Damian's morality guide is not Alfred's responsibility. 
My point is, Alfred is probably the only one who repeatedly talk to him and make Damian believes that even after everything that happened, Bruce cares for him. Now Alfred is gone, and Bruce didn't show any sign of care, he has no reason to trust Alfred's word, so there's nothing stops Damian for slipping into darkness.

----------


## Astralabius

> Yes, the problem is apparently DC current era ignored Robin : Son of Batman entirely. Maya is nowhere on sight, Goliath is nowhere on sight, I don't think they realized Suren's existence. I think we have to accept that DC just want to destroy Damian's development. On this rebirth, he's repeatedly shown to be ruthless and didn't care much of villain's lives. Even on Kate's judgement family discussion, he didn't pick any side. 
> 
> I never said that Alfred ever guided Damian. As much as Batfam fandom portray him as Holy Saint, The Best of The Best or something, he's passive as heck. Like Damian said, he just reacted. Heck, he didn't even guide Bruce when he build his own secret prison, how can anyone expect him guide Damian? Well, he only did his butler's job, protect his master, console his master, prepare his master's need, etc. Damian's morality guide is not Alfred's responsibility. 
> My point is, Alfred is probably the only one who repeatedly talk to him and make Damian believes that even after everything that happened, Bruce cares for him. Now Alfred is gone, and Bruce didn't show any sign of care, there's nothing stops Damian for slipping into darkness.


No, you didn't say that, but the book is trying to and that's not correct. That's why the panel with "...I received guidance" cuts to Alfred and Damian playing chess.
So far this book hasn't adressed Bruce not taking care of Damian in a proper way.
Don't get me wrong, I would love for Damian to throw all of his grievances in Bruce's face, but as of now this feels to me like Damian is the antagonist in this book and the rest of the team and Bruce will be the ones who will put an end to it and punish him for his crimes.

----------


## dietrich

> Bruce is distracted and that's why Damian starts kiling again? Sorry, not buying it.


No the killing is all on Damian. He made the choice. bad writing or not. it is what it is.
Damian has no guidance and no eyes on him because bruce is distracted

----------


## dietrich

> Not gonna lie, I like the little touch of Damian's bloodied hands, hidden from his teammates. I know I shouldn't, but it makes me excited. 
> 
> 
> 
> In here Thompson tries to show Crush's compassionate side, so perhaps we will get more info about Crush's goodness which will make her chosen to be their leader. I think it's better than she self-proclaimed herself to be a leader.
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously DC, he hasn't voice his real son argument for like ages ago, he has moved past that and acknowledge his other brothers. Stop regressing his character! I know that the cover is often not true, but still.


Why are they fighting again I thought they were working together?

The funny thing is that this same writer just months ago wrote Damian telling Dick about how he was Bruce's son. How Bruce raised him.

----------


## Light of Justice

> No, you didn't say that, but the book is trying to and that's not correct. That's why the panel with "...I received guidance" cuts to Alfred and Damian playing chess.
> So far this book hasn't adressed Bruce not taking care of Damian in a proper way.
> Don't get me wrong, I would love for Damian to throw all of his grievances in Bruce's face, but as of now this feels to me like Damian is the antagonist in this book and the rest of the team and Bruce will be the ones who will put an end to it and punish him for his crimes.


The thing I don't understand of this book is, Damian, Wallace, and Emiko are the core three, right? Like they have fanbase, backup from Batfam fans, Flash fans and Green Arrow fans. Sure Wallace is hated for replacing Wally and Emiko is hated for replacing Roy, but it's not like Damian doesn't get any hate for replacing Tim. Emiko and Wallace has potential to get used on other GA or Flash book and DC should pushed them to support their existence and satisfy their fanbases. Crush, Djiin, and Roundhouse are supposed to be their support character. But why on this book Crush, Djiin, and Roundhose who always get the spotlight? Fine, Crush can be used on DC story Lobo related, and now Djiin went with Jakeem, but I can't imagine how will DC use Roundhouse outside TT book. There's literally no reason to built their fanbase, at least by sacrificing Damian, Emiko, and Wallace who already have fanbase on their own. Damian become antagonist in like every story, Emiko and Wallace get pushed out and forgotten somewhere, even Emiko's character get butchered. 

I just don't understand what will DC gain by doing all of this. Not profit, for certain.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Why are they fighting again I thought they were working together?
> 
> The funny thing is that this same writer just months ago wrote Damian telling Dick about how he was Bruce's son. How Bruce raised him.


Damian : *existed*
Writer : FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!

I know that this is superhero book full of fighting, but isn't that a little bit too much?

----------


## Astralabius

> Damian : *existed*
> Writer : FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!
> 
> I know that this is superhero book full of fighting, but isn't that a little bit too much?


I looked at the preview, so far no fighting. Just Terry getting Damian to the batcave to receive treatment for his wounds.

----------


## Astralabius

> The thing I don't understand of this book is, Damian, Wallace, and Emiko are the core three, right? Like they have fanbase, backup from Batfam fans, Flash fans and Green Arrow fans. Sure Wallace is hated for replacing Wally and Emiko is hated for replacing Roy, but it's not like Damian doesn't get any hate for replacing Tim. Emiko and Wallace has potential to get used on other GA or Flash book and DC should pushed them to support their existence and satisfy their fanbase. Crush, Djiin, and Roundhouse are supposed to be their support character. But why on this book Crush, Djiin, and Roundhose who always get the spotlight? Fine, Crush can be used on DC story Lobo related, and now Djiin went with Jakeem, but I can't imagine how will DC use Roundhouse outside TT book. There's literally no reason to built their fanbase, at least by sacrificing Damian, Emiko, and Wallace who already have fanbase on their own. Damian become villains in like every story, Emiko and Wallace get pushed out and forgotten somewhere, even Emiko's character get butchered. 
> 
> I just don't understand what will DC gain by doing all of this. Not profit, for certain.


It can't be for the money, this book started tanking the minute the other turned out to be Damian's clone. You think DC would get the hint that most people are not that taken with this book.

As least from what I heard this story mainly exists to push Damian out the robin mantle, a direction DC decided to pursue even stronger after Didio left and 5G got scrapped. Originally Bruce would have confronted Damian only for the prison and the mind wiping. Damian trying to kill a bunch of criminals (Brother Blood, KGBeast, wonder who Damian will chase in 44) before Bruce and him have their confrontation was added later.

I have no interest in reading this once Damian is gone, but I do wonder what will become of this team without him.
Unless Thompson adds new characters the team would only consist of Wally, Emiko, Crush and Roundhouse. I don't really think that will convince people to stick with this book. Especially if Wally and Emiko get pushed to the side.
There's also the question of what they are supposed to do. Batman knows about them now, but playing by the rules of the Justice League doesn't seem fitting either.

----------


## Morgoth

I really don't get the point. I would understand if 5G would be still a thing, because, you know, Didio hated legacy-characters and he wanted to put Luke in Batsuit.
But what the hell are they doing right now? Just... Why?) What's the point?) They want to free place for someone else, or what? It's just strange to treat popular character like that.



> I have no interest in reading this once Damian is gone, but I do wonder what will become of this team without him.
> Unless Thompson adds new characters the team would only consist of Wally, Emiko, Crush and Roundhouse. I don't really think that will convince people to stick with this book. Especially if Wally and Emiko get pushed to the side.
> There's also the question of what they are supposed to do. Batman knows about them now, but playing by the rules of the Justice League doesn't seem fitting either.


I guess there will be new line-up next year. Probably without Damian, since Tynion said, that he'll return to Gotham in his run.
Maybe they'll add Jon there and some of original members.

----------


## Astralabius

> I really don't get the point. I would understand if 5G would still a thing, because, you know, Didio hated legacy-characters and he wanted to put Luke in Batsuit.
> But what the hell are they doing right now? Just... Why?) What's the point?) They want to free place for someone else, or what? It's just strange to treat popular character like that.


I don't get it either. I personally would have liked to see Damian as Robin for a bit longer because I feel like DC never quite let him shine. But if they want someone else in the role (even though the number of Robins is getting a bit ridiculous) so bad, fine.
What I'm angry about the most is that Damian gets kicked out of the mantle in the most undignified way possible.

----------


## Morgoth

The problem is not that he will cease to be Robin, Damian may really need this for development, that is not the point. The thing is how. For example, there is an option that I personally will accept - Damian admits his mistakes, voluntarily gives the mantle to Batman, so that he passes it to someone else, and he goes into exile somewhere to recover and realize his true path (that is the reason why he's missing later). And then he returns during Joker War or after Death Metal, already with the new alias. Being reborn, lol. 
And if Bruce just will put him away, well, I'm sorry, but this is a shitty scenario, because I can’t also consider Bruce fair in this case, because he did not care about what his child has been doing for a long time. And he also made a bunch of mistakes. It just won't look normal.
I hope that the first option will become a reality.

----------


## Eckri

> I don't get it either. I personally would have liked to see Damian as Robin for a bit longer because I feel like DC never quite let him shine. But if they want someone else in the role (even though the number of Robins is getting a bit ridiculous) so bad, fine.
> What I'm angry about the most is that Damian gets kicked out of the mantle in the most undignified way possible.


Well Damian's reputation is getting  more tarnished, don't how long till his character can recover from this. Personally if they want to shelf Damian as Robin, New and Old Gods for how long, then I'd think the best way for him to go under shelf is for him to go travelling. Just like he did in the Batman Beyond comics. He gets shelf and still has potential on coming back with the excuse of the old trope 'learned a few things while I was away'.

----------


## Restingvoice

According to the DC website, this is Robin King before his ascension

dm02_Robin_King_2_5eebdba97d3632.50422229.jpg

Death Metal #2

----------


## dietrich

> According to the DC website, this is Robin King before his ascension
> 
> dm02_Robin_King_2_5eebdba97d3632.50422229.jpg
> 
> Death Metal #2


I doubt this is Damian since this Groblin used to be a kid who was so evil he used to spend all his time thinking of ways to kill heroes.

Also the BWL Damian was killed by our Damian.

----------


## Astralabius

> I doubt this is Damian since this Groblin used to be a kid who was so evil he used to spend all his time thinking of ways to kill heroes.
> 
> Also the BWL Damian was killed by our Damian.


I don't think anyone thought that it would be BWLs original Damian, some people were wondering if BWL could have turned the main universe Damian, like in this Infected storyline DC had a few months ago.

----------


## Grandmaster_J

> Unless Thompson adds new characters the team would only consist of Wally, Emiko, Crush and Roundhouse. I don't really think that will convince people to stick with this book. Especially if Wally and Emiko get pushed to the side.


As Light of Justice pointed out they've already been pushed to the side. Can you remember the last time either Wallace or Emi's characters effected the book and its direction in any kind of way? Emiko's guilt of shooting Deathstroke was handled in his title meanwhile Wallace is just there to hold Roundhouse's hand every time he messes up. Instead of being good friends, KF sometimes feels like an older brother babysitting. Damian on the other hand never lost attention or focus even if it was in a direction readers didn't agree with. The other 3 I think deserved to have the focus they got because they were new but not at the expense of the already established three. Damian is speeding down the wrong hill and Emi and KF are just standing at a stop light not knowing if they're gonna turn left, right, or keep straight.

----------


## Astralabius

> As Light of Justice pointed out they've already been pushed to the side. Can you remember the last time either Wallace or Emi's characters effected the book and its direction in any kind of way? Emiko's guilt of shooting Deathstroke was handled in his title meanwhile Wallace is just there to hold Roundhouse's hand every time he messes up. Instead of being good friends, KF sometimes feels like an older brother babysitting. Damian on the other hand never lost attention or focus even if it was in a direction readers didn't agree with. The other 3 I think deserved to have the focus they got because they were new but not at the expense of the already established three. Damian is speeding down the wrong hill and Emi and KF are just standing at a stop light not knowing if they're gonna turn left, right, or keep straight.


I am very much aware of this fact, I was talking about the situation after the annual when Damian will be gone.

----------


## Grandmaster_J

> I am very much aware of this fact, I was talking about the situation after the annual when Damian will be gone.


So was I. The situation they're in now will literally be the same then when he's gone.

----------


## king81992

> Actually proves that Bruce has a point not trusting Damian. Wouldn't be suprised if DC plays it that way.


True, but realistically, no one (especially the Bat family) should trust the current version of Bruce.

----------


## king81992

> As Light of Justice pointed out they've already been pushed to the side. Can you remember the last time either Wallace or Emi's characters effected the book and its direction in any kind of way? Emiko's guilt of shooting Deathstroke was handled in his title meanwhile Wallace is just there to hold Roundhouse's hand every time he messes up. Instead of being good friends, KF sometimes feels like an older brother babysitting. Damian on the other hand never lost attention or focus even if it was in a direction readers didn't agree with. The other 3 I think deserved to have the focus they got because they were new but not at the expense of the already established three. Damian is speeding down the wrong hill and Emi and KF are just standing at a stop light not knowing if they're gonna turn left, right, or keep straight.


Wallace knowing right from wrong and not doing enough/ lacking backbone/ getting ignored when things go bad and teammates do sketchy stuff is starting to become his defining character trait. I disagree with Wallace being Rounhouse's babysitter, he babysits the whole team and everyone except Roundhouse give him no respect.

Not too familiar with Emiko, but from what I understand she became more of a jerk during this run.

Damian's defining character trait is starting to look like 'team killer'.

----------


## Astralabius

> True, but realistically, no one (especially the Bat family) should trust the current version of Bruce.


Realistically one of them should have pushed Bruce off a tall building for some of the things he has done by now, but they still always return to him sooner or later. Bruce is the leader of the bat-family, even if he's totally unqualified for the task, DC isn't going to change that.
Bruce can get away with things the other members of the family can only dream of.

----------


## dietrich

> Wallace knowing right from wrong and not doing enough/ lacking backbone/ getting ignored when things go bad and teammates do sketchy stuff is starting to become his defining character trait. I disagree with Wallace being Rounhouse's babysitter, he babysits the whole team and everyone except Roundhouse give him no respect.
> 
> Not too familiar with Emiko, but from what I understand she became more of a jerk during this run.
> 
> Damian's defining character trait is starting to look like 'team killer'.


Damian's defining trait is selective taste, tons of insecurities and a difficult personality. He works just fine in teams/groups [there's a lot of canon examples].

He works with people who are flexible, easy going and wise enough to understand that his attitude is just a mask. The emotional intelligent and intuitive ones who don't let his BS get through.

Percy's TT the 2 thing's he did wrong was kidnap his tm's because he was doing the whole dominate to show strenght thing that we saw is the way he was taught in the Demon's arc.
He was willing to give his life for his team members
He was tying to protect them from a hit squad.

2nd thing was be a square and be competent. He fired Wally with good reason and was subjected to bullying because he was no fun.
Damian didn't kill that team. Gar and Raven did when they decided to betray their team and hook up with Future Tim to hunt an innocent kid.

We all read the same comics you know and we still remember what happened

----------


## Morgoth

> Damian's defining character trait is starting to look like 'team killer'.


For at least the past two years, DC, unfortunately, has almost shouted that Damian is not suitable for the Titans. And in this regard they create a strong contrast with Dick and Tim, for whom they were friends, family and a ticket to independent life without Batman.
Damian, in turn, failed where they succeeded. And twice. All attempts to become better than Batman led to lies and bloodshed, he ruined the team twice (and also he quickly left Titans before Flashpoint), and he was never able to build at least normal relationship with them, even despite the attempts. True, he is justified by the fact that they themselves were shown like assholes (SuperSons of Tomorrow say hi), but the consensus of the DC writers seems to be just that, unfortunately.
That is why I think that after August they will generally remove him from the Titans, at least for a while.

----------


## Astralabius

> That is why I think that after August they will generally remove him from the Titans, at least for a while.


According to 45 he's definitely missing and it doesn't sound like the team is looking for him, so yeah sounds like it for now.

Which asks the question where he'll show up next while he's "missing"
According to Tynion not in Joker War. He did promise Damian would be back to the Batman titles eventually. That could take a few months though if you ask me.
Detective Comics has a special in September, the last few specials always had one story connected to current events in the main universe, but if Damian will show up in there is unclear.
I don't think Damian should show up in another team book to recover from Teen Titans, but who knows.
Right now DC is ending a lot of books, most likely preparing to relaunch a lot of them. I'm not sure if DC would be willing to give Damian a solo book right now. It's what I would like to see the most, but DC is a company, they have to consider financial aspects as well, not just creative ones.
Last option I can think of is Damian simply vanishing for a few months until either Teen Titans or one of the batman titles feels like using him again.

Thoughts?

----------


## Fergus

When is Dceased Dead Planet Out?
Damian hopefully will pop up all over the place in different titles like he always does till he sorts thing's out with Bruce.

Doomsday Clock teased future Damian stories with Helena.

Sadly with all the scrambling and power grabs going on behind the scenes at DC a lot of plans are up in the air.

I'm curious o know what motivated DC's decision re Damian.

----------


## Fergus

WB is working on a new Batfamily game not based on the Arkham series. Curious to find out more.

----------


## Morgoth

> According to 45 he's definitely missing and it doesn't sound like the team is looking for him, so yeah sounds like it for now.
> 
> Which asks the question where he'll show up next while he's "missing"
> According to Tynion not in Joker War. He did promise Damian would be back to the Batman titles eventually. That could take a few months though if you ask me.
> Detective Comics has a special in September, the last few specials always had one story connected to current events in the main universe, but if Damian will show up in there is unclear.
> I don't think Damian should show up in another team book to recover from Teen Titans, but who knows.
> Right now DC is ending a lot of books, most likely preparing to relaunch a lot of them. I'm not sure if DC would be willing to give Damian a solo book right now. It's what I would like to see the most, but DC is a company, they have to consider financial aspects as well, not just creative ones.
> Last option I can think of is Damian simply vanishing for a few months until either Teen Titans or one of the batman titles feels like using him again.
> 
> Thoughts?


Titans will be relaunched for sure. They, of course, will keep these characters (at least Emiko and Wally for sure), but I think they either mix them with Raven's elder Titans (if they'll be a thing after Death Metal) or they'll just add some new characters like Jon, for example. Actually, it's even make sense in terms of this story - to have Jon there to help "redeem" Titans after Damian's actions. Or it can be Tim, or even Young Justice members.
Regarding where he'll show up next, it can be immediately after relaunch. I still think that he can get his solo series. He's popular and if he'll get new alias, well, it's a good way to develop him as something new. I'm not sure, but it's really possible. Detective Comics can have some tease-story, just like Robin 80-anniversary had story, which is leading to August Annual. 
Or maybe it can happen in Joker War finale (Tynion maybe just doesn't want to spoil), something like saving the day, arriving at the last moment to fight with Joker, maybe even already under new alias. Anyway, in Nightwing tie-in description there was a mention of Robins, who Dick will be fighting. And Jason wasn's associated with this alias for a long time. So, we'll see. Anyway he'll use him later.
Oh, and also, if Gotham Knights will include Damian, I guess he'll be used more frequently in Batcomics, to help promote game. He can appear, because originally it was planned to have him as a protagonist of next Batman game, so, I think we can see him there.

----------


## Fergus

> Titans will be relaunched for sure. They, of course, will keep these characters (at least Emiko and Wally for sure), but I think they either mix them with Raven's elder Titans (if they'll be a thing after Death Metal) or they'll just add some new characters like Jon, for example. Actually, it's even make sense in terms of this story - to have Jon there to help "redeem" Titans after Damian's actions. Or it can be Tim, or even Young Justice members.
> Regarding where he'll show up next, it can be immediately after relaunch. I still think that he can get his solo series. He's popular and if he'll get new alias, well, it's a good way to develop him as something new. I'm not sure, but it's really possible. Detective Comics can have some tease-story, just like Robin 80-anniversary had story, which is leading to August Annual. 
> Or maybe it can happen in Joker War finale (Tynion maybe just doesn't want to spoil), something like saving the day, arriving at the last moment to fight with Joker, maybe even already under new alias. Anyway, in Nightwing tie-in description there was a mention of Robins, who Dick will be fighting. And Jason wasn's associated with this alias for a long time. So, we'll see. Anyway he'll use him later.
> Oh, and also, if Gotham Knights will include Damian, I guess he'll be used more frequently in Batcomics, to help promote game. He can appear, because originally it was planned to have him as a protagonist of next Batman game, so, I think we can see him there.


Why would they have Jon help redeem the team? The team should redeem itself.

Not sure why some are thinking Death metal is a relaunch. It isn't.

LOSH, YJ and TT are individual franchises operating out of different areas and times periods under different offices. Unlikely that any of the members are going to be crossing over. The TT will carry on till Damian returns.

----------


## Morgoth

> Not sure why some are thinking Death metal is a relaunch. It isn't.


Who said it isn't?) It's Crisis-type event, which is connected to all of them, and also connected to Doomsday Clock and Manhattan. Entire universe is doomed, lots of people are dead, and Diana, Bruce and Wally's goal is to reset BWL and Perpetua actions, and also undo all Crises. Snyder already said, that the main goal is to fix timeline, which was hurt by Crises, that's why all of this Anti-Crisis thing is existing. So, yeah, that's a relaunch. Not like New 52 probably, but it will relaunch universe in some way.
They would have him to replace Damian, because Titans won't have popular enough member if he will be gone. It's just speculation.

----------


## king81992

> Titans will be relaunched for sure. They, of course, will keep these characters (at least Emiko and Wally for sure), but I think they either mix them with Raven's elder Titans (if they'll be a thing after Death Metal) or they'll just add some new characters like Jon, for example. Actually, it's even make sense in terms of this story - to have Jon there to help "redeem" Titans after Damian's actions. Or it can be Tim, or even Young Justice members.
> Regarding where he'll show up next, it can be immediately after relaunch. I still think that he can get his solo series. He's popular and if he'll get new alias, well, it's a good way to develop him as something new. I'm not sure, but it's really possible. Detective Comics can have some tease-story, just like Robin 80-anniversary had story, which is leading to August Annual. 
> Or maybe it can happen in Joker War finale (Tynion maybe just doesn't want to spoil), something like saving the day, arriving at the last moment to fight with Joker, maybe even already under new alias. Anyway, in Nightwing tie-in description there was a mention of Robins, who Dick will be fighting. And Jason wasn's associated with this alias for a long time. So, we'll see. Anyway he'll use him later.
> Oh, and also, if Gotham Knights will include Damian, I guess he'll be used more frequently in Batcomics, to help promote game. He can appear, because originally it was planned to have him as a protagonist of next Batman game, so, I think we can see him there.


The only character I see making it to the next TT run is Wallace.

----------


## king81992

> Why would they have Jon help redeem the team? The team should redeem itself.
> 
> Not sure why some are thinking Death metal is a relaunch. It isn't.
> 
> LOSH, YJ and TT are individual franchises operating out of different areas and times periods under different offices. Unlikely that any of the members are going to be crossing over. The TT will carry on till Damian returns.


Death Metal is probably going to wind up as a psuedo- reboot, not an official one like Crisis, but it will probably alter continuity/ canon, most likely by making things more convoluted. That first issue was am incoherent mess, I worry about what's to come.

Not sure how adding Jon would redeem the team either. The entire franchise needed redemption long before the current roster came into play.

The way to redeem the Titans franchise is to have a good run with established members. If a writer manages a good run with unestablished members/ new characters,  fans will be saying it doesn't count Titans in name only or say that the established members were shafted.

----------


## Morgoth

Wrong word, not my first language, sorry)
I was meaning having him to help them become better team, something like that, to help in a way Damian couldn't. It's not needed, of course, just an idea, that they can use. Who knows.
If we talk about team's redemption, at first they need a really good writer.

----------


## Light of Justice

> When is Dceased Dead Planet Out?
> Damian hopefully will pop up all over the place in different titles like he always does till he sorts thing's out with Bruce.


DCeased Dead Planet will come out on June 30. Also I think DCeased : Hope at World End issue #4 will come out on June 30 too, from Tom Taylor's preview pic, that issue will be featuring Jon and Damian.

----------


## Astralabius

> Doomsday Clock teased future Damian stories with Helena.
> 
> Sadly with all the scrambling and power grabs going on behind the scenes at DC a lot of plans are up in the air.


I'm not really up to date with all things surrounding doomsday clock, crisis and relaunches because I kinda don't care that much, but I don't think that possible future in doomsday clock is going to matter much going forward.

I don't like the idea of Damian having to be saved by a new Helena anyway. The only one I would accept is Earth 2 Helena, they already have history and she's an adult.

----------


## Fergus

> Who said it isn't?) It's Crisis-type event, which is connected to all of them, and also connected to Doomsday Clock and Manhattan. Entire universe is doomed, lots of people are dead, and Diana, Bruce and Wally's goal is to reset BWL and Perpetua actions, and also undo all Crises. Snyder already said, that the main goal is to fix timeline, which was hurt by Crises, that's why all of this Anti-Crisis thing is existing. So, yeah, that's a relaunch. Not like New 52 probably, but it will relaunch universe in some way.
> They would have him to replace Damian, because Titans won't have popular enough member if he will be gone. It's just speculation.


Synder also said that it isn't a reboot or a relaunch it's just fixing the fractured timeline that's all. 
It's not like New 52 and it's not like Rebirth. It's not even like Final Crisis.

Synder has nothing to do Titans Franchise and the comic doesn't generate the type of capital to be taken into consideration when making decision as big as replacing Damian.

[Damian's solo sold more than this book] Comics barely factor in when such decision are made since the real value adding avenues for brands like TT and Robin are outside media and the wider on comic reading market.

TT comics can survive without Damian/Robin. With how much they despise this run I doubt majority are wasting their money on it.

----------


## Fergus

> I'm not really up to date with all things surrounding doomsday clock, crisis and relaunches because I kinda don't care that much, but I don't think that possible future in doomsday clock is going to matter much going forward.
> 
> I don't like the idea of Damian having to be saved by a new Helena anyway. The only one I would accept is Earth 2 Helena, they already have history and she's an adult.


I believe that tease was for Earth 2 Helena. Doomsday Clock also announced their return

----------


## Light of Justice

> Synder also said that it isn't a reboot or a relaunch it's just fixing the fractured timeline that's all. 
> It's not like New 52 and it's not like Rebirth. It's not even like Final Crisis.
> 
> Synder has nothing to do Titans Franchise and the comic doesn't generate the type of capital to be taken into consideration when making decision as big as replacing Damian.
> 
> [Damian's solo sold more than this book] Comics barely factor in when such decision are made since the real value adding avenues for brands like TT and Robin are outside media and the wider on comic reading market.
> 
> TT comics can survive without Damian/Robin. With how much they despise this run I doubt majority are wasting their money on it.


I am curious, why Damian never seems to have persistent series with persistent writer (excluding Morrison as his original creator)? Many of his project was canceled, like Robin Son of Batman, Supersons, and Damian Son of Batman. He also doesn't have any companions who stays long, Colin is forgotten, Maya is forgotten, the closest he has for friend is Jon, and he's gone to join legion. We can't say Percy's TT and Glass's TT as one series because there's too many difference between them, Percy's TT lasted for 20 issues, and Damian left Glass's TT after 24 issue. I want to try to see it from business perspective, is it because there's so many writer who want to write him, but doesn't want to keep him longer than necessary? Or he's still hated by common fans and didn't get many profit so DC have to repeatedly switch his writers?

----------


## Korath

My bet is that they try to fit a round peg in a square hole. 

Damian as Robin is a very different creature than any others, even Jason, with whom he has similarities in his character (abrasive and harsher compared to the previous ones - Dick and Tim respectively) and it certainly plays a part. Robin is designed to be a team member, either as the minor portion of the Dynamic Duo or the well-balanced leader of a super-team. But neither Damian nor Jason fits in those roles. Jason found himself a family/team with the Outlaws, but he isn't exactly the leader in the same vein Dick or Tim can be or have been in their own teams. And Jason works best when he is less associated with Batman, not more.

I think that Damian taking his distance with his father, at this point in his published history, is actually for the best. Repeated attempted to make him like the "successful" Robins will hinder him more in the long run, IMO, because it'd make escaping this role harder. Look at Dick (the Original) and Tim (the Perfect) who, one way or another, are constantly defined/reminded of their time in the Robin colors, where Jason has truly become Red Hood, made this identity his and Robin is only a small part of his story and who he is.

Damian as the Son of Batman doesn't need to be Robin to exist, and the longer his character will be badly used (like in Supersons, or that Super Sons graphic novel or whatever "Ian" horror story) the harder it'll be for him to grow.

----------


## Astralabius

> My bet is that they try to fit a round peg in a square hole. 
> 
> Damian as Robin is a very different creature than any others, even Jason, with whom he has similarities in his character (abrasive and harsher compared to the previous ones - Dick and Tim respectively) and it certainly plays a part. Robin is designed to be a team member, either as the minor portion of the Dynamic Duo or the well-balanced leader of a super-team. But neither Damian nor Jason fits in those roles. Jason found himself a family/team with the Outlaws, but he isn't exactly the leader in the same vein Dick or Tim can be or have been in their own teams. And Jason works best when he is less associated with Batman, not more.
> 
> I think that Damian taking his distance with his father, at this point in his published history, is actually for the best. Repeated attempted to make him like the "successful" Robins will hinder him more in the long run, IMO, because it'd make escaping this role harder. Look at Dick (the Original) and Tim (the Perfect) who, one way or another, are constantly defined/reminded of their time in the Robin colors, where Jason has truly become Red Hood, made this identity his and Robin is only a small part of his story and who he is.
> 
> Damian as the Son of Batman doesn't need to be Robin to exist, and the longer his character will be badly used (like in Supersons, or that Super Sons graphic novel or whatever "Ian" horror story) the harder it'll be for him to grow.


I would prefer if they actually let him actually be Robin and work at his father's side for more than a few issues for once before thinking about his future and replacement. Let him just be Robin for some time and enjoy the present.
I disagree that he was badly uses in Super Sons. Damian getting to relax a bit for once was really nice and lots of people seem to agree considering the demand online to bring it back.

----------


## Korath

> I would prefer if they actually let him actually be Robin and work at his father's side for more than a few issues for once before thinking about his future and replacement. Let him just be Robin for some time and enjoy the present.
> I disagree that he was badly uses in Super Sons. Damian getting to relax a bit for once was really nice and lots of people seem to agree considering the demand online to bring it back.


I really hated the way Tomasi used him in Supersons, so I'm really happy this series is dead for now. Him and Kid Jon felt so damn forced and to his detriment that Damian being away from it is a good thing in my eyes. And while I'd definitively prefer him to be with a Batman, it'd have to be DickBat not Bruce at that point. Tom King did so much damage to Bruce as a character that I don't want to see Damian and Bruce together for the time being, since it's obvious that for King, Damian is the unwanted son dragging Bruce down.

----------


## Eckri

> My bet is that they try to fit a round peg in a square hole. 
> 
> Damian as Robin is a very different creature than any others, even Jason, with whom he has similarities in his character (abrasive and harsher compared to the previous ones - Dick and Tim respectively) and it certainly plays a part. Robin is designed to be a team member, either as the minor portion of the Dynamic Duo or the well-balanced leader of a super-team. But neither Damian nor Jason fits in those roles. Jason found himself a family/team with the Outlaws, but he isn't exactly the leader in the same vein Dick or Tim can be or have been in their own teams. And Jason works best when he is less associated with Batman, not more.
> 
> I think that Damian taking his distance with his father, at this point in his published history, is actually for the best. Repeated attempted to make him like the "successful" Robins will hinder him more in the long run, IMO, because it'd make escaping this role harder. Look at Dick (the Original) and Tim (the Perfect) who, one way or another, are constantly defined/reminded of their time in the Robin colors, where Jason has truly become Red Hood, made this identity his and Robin is only a small part of his story and who he is.
> 
> Damian as the Son of Batman doesn't need to be Robin to exist, and the longer his character will be badly used (like in Supersons, or that Super Sons graphic novel or whatever "Ian" horror story) the harder it'll be for him to grow.


Damian not being Robin is a good starting point for something. Looking at his origins, he was getting shoved down with the legacy of the League of Shadows and the Batman. Either be the heir to the Bat or the Head of the Demon. The kid is always being overshadowed by the two, I think it'll be interesting for him to try in distance himself from the Bat and the League of Shadows, try and find his own place and identity.

----------


## Astralabius

> Damian not being Robin is a good starting point for something. Looking at his origins, he was getting shoved down with the legacy of the League of Shadows and the Batman. Either be the heir to the Bat or the Head of the Demon. The kid is always being overshadowed by the two, I think it'll be interesting for him to try in distance himself from the Bat and the League of Shadows, try and find his own place and identity.


Sorry to say this, but I doubt Damian will ever be free of this legacy angle. If he breaks away from Batman they might simply use him as the failed blood son who never managed to live up to Batman's standards. DC looks at almost everything from Batman's angle.

----------


## Astralabius

> I really hated the way Tomasi used him in Supersons, so I'm really happy this series is dead for now. Him and Kid Jon felt so damn forced and to his detriment that Damian being away from it is a good thing in my eyes. And while I'd definitively prefer him to be with a Batman, it'd have to be DickBat not Bruce at that point. Tom King did so much damage to Bruce as a character that I don't want to see Damian and Bruce together for the time being, since it's obvious that for King, Damian is the unwanted son dragging Bruce down.


Maybe not on this board, but I thing in general you are in the minority with that opinion.
Not sure if King really saw it that way. He did make Thomas say that Damian was definitely Bruce's son. King simply seemed to dislike any character that wasn't Selina in general, including Bruce.
I don't think Dick becoming Batman again would help him right now. Damian deserves some more time with a well written Bruce.

----------


## sifighter

Well I read the new teen titans today, I hope they know what they are doing

*spoilers:*
 Essentially someone has murdered Brother Blood and the teen titans want to figure out who did it, now it’s important to note that at no time did anyone call out Damian. No one talked in a corner suspecting him or talking about him, instead it’s left very vague about Damian while most of the issue has Damian saying to himself that he doesn’t know what to do or how to channel himself without Alfred there to give him advice or guidance. 

Personally there are a lot of ways this can go down, they can either write that Damian went through with it or Bruce and others honestly believe he is responsible when he did nothing. Neither way sound like it would end well for Damian. Honestly I hope this doesn’t go poorly for Damian, it’s clear he’s already going through some things during this issue. 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## king81992

> Well I read the new teen titans today, I hope they know what they are doing
> 
> *spoilers:*
>  Essentially someone has murdered Brother Blood and the teen titans want to figure out who did it, now it’s important to note that at no time did anyone call out Damian. No one talked in a corner suspecting him or talking about him, instead it’s left very vague about Damian while most of the issue has Damian saying to himself that he doesn’t know what to do or how to channel himself without Alfred there to give him advice or guidance. 
> 
> Personally there are a lot of ways this can go down, they can either write that Damian went through with it or Bruce and others honestly believe he is responsible when he did nothing. Neither way sound like it would end well for Damian. Honestly I hope this doesn’t go poorly for Damian, it’s clear he’s already going through some things during this issue. 
> *end of spoilers*


Based on this, I think Damian is a red herring, he'll use whatever happens next as an excuse to leave the team and look into things on his own.

----------


## shadow6743

> Based on this, I think Damian is a red herring, he'll use whatever happens next as an excuse to leave the team and look into things on his own.


I really enjoyed the issue I found the tone a really nice change of pace. I especially enjoyed Roundhouse's mom making snacks for the team and Damian enjoying the vegan snack she made for him. A murder just happened and my favorite moment was Damian enjoying a vegan snack made by Roundhouse's mom. Its really little  moments like that really make me like this series. I want more moments like that.

----------


## dietrich

> I am curious, why Damian never seems to have persistent series with persistent writer (excluding Morrison as his original creator)? Many of his project was canceled, like Robin Son of Batman, Supersons, and Damian Son of Batman. He also doesn't have any companions who stays long, Colin is forgotten, Maya is forgotten, the closest he has for friend is Jon, and he's gone to join legion. We can't say Percy's TT and Glass's TT as one series because there's too many difference between them, Percy's TT lasted for 20 issues, and Damian left Glass's TT after 24 issue. I want to try to see it from business perspective, is it because there's so many writer who want to write him, but doesn't want to keep him longer than necessary? Or he's still hated by common fans and didn't get many profit so DC have to repeatedly switch his writers?


It's a combination of the bad luck and the fact that Damian was introduced just before DC went reboot crazy.

Bad luck 
RSOB was cancelled for Supersons
Supersons because Hot new writer had other plans
Damian Son of Batman was a mini set while Damian was dead.

Tim was the only Robin with a series [Dick did have over 300 solo adventures featured in Star Spangled Comics back in the day]

Tim's Robin solo happened because DC wanted to set up Robin as a solo hero with his own world, Support and adventures. They wanted to Robin independent of Batman.

They dedicated a good deal of time and resources to it and it happened at the perfect time. The comics market was very healthy and the Batfamily wasn't as crowded.

Thing's were also much calmer and stable. Good times.

Damian blindsided everyone. DC weren't planning on a new Robin. He wasn't planned so he didn't have the well thought out project plan that Tim did. There was no strategy. No meeting were creatives get together to plan how to and where to with his character.

he was fill in Robin for Grant's story and he would be killed off afterwards.

When Damian died DC and the new Batman writer had Duke already waiting in the wings to take over until WB set them an email.

So again DC was blindsided and had no plans so they scrambled. Gleason saved the day but since then we've had bad luck of cancellation due to other influences.

The friends going missing is not unique to Damian. Sadly it happens far too often in comics. Writers get royalties from original characters so they all want to create their own. It doesn't help that Damian hasn't had a regular writer and series to establish his support cast/world.

----------


## dietrich

> I really hated the way Tomasi used him in Supersons, so I'm really happy this series is dead for now. Him and Kid Jon felt so damn forced and to his detriment that Damian being away from it is a good thing in my eyes. And while I'd definitively prefer him to be with a Batman, it'd have to be DickBat not Bruce at that point. Tom King did so much damage to Bruce as a character that I don't want to see Damian and Bruce together for the time being, since it's obvious that for King, Damian is the unwanted son dragging Bruce down.


I enjoyed supersons. Wasn't always a fan of how Damian was handled but i was sad to see it end. I do however agree that the distance will serve both characters well.

I hate how fans always bring up Damian when complaining about the Jon's age up.
" Damian's missing his pal or Jon is lonely without his pal" "Maybe Damian should be aged up so he can be with his BFF" They bring up Jon when commenting on Damian's current TT arc. "If only Jon was here he'd balance him out or he wouldn't be acting this way"

That's fucking atrocious, rude and stupid. Damian is an established character and should not be constantly referenced as 1 half of a duo.

Not to mention that giving another character credit for his development/growth [that occurred before this new character was created] is hella disrespectful.

Jon and Damian are great as a duo but they are also solid stand alone characters who shouldn't be sold as a pair.

I wouldn't mind the two getting an out of continuity maxi or just have occasional adventures every now and then just to balance things out. Damian's stories tend to be Dark. he's usually so super serious and adult.  Supersons would break it up.

----------


## dietrich

> Death Metal is probably going to wind up as a psuedo- reboot, not an official one like Crisis, but it will probably alter continuity/ canon, most likely by making things more convoluted. That first issue was am incoherent mess, I worry about what's to come.
> 
> Not sure how adding Jon would redeem the team either. The entire franchise needed redemption long before the current roster came into play.
> 
> The way to redeem the Titans franchise is to have a good run with established members. If a writer manages a good run with unestablished members/ new characters,  fans will be saying it doesn't count Titans in name only or say that the established members were shafted.


The Titans franchise has been meh to bad for a while now.  Since before the New52. 
The TT can work with the new members so long as they have good stories. I din't know what you mean by established members.
The OG Team, NTT or the most well known line up from TTGO ?

The established members are no longer teens so they can't be on the TT. When they were deaged and put on a team with a teen fans kept complaining. You were very vocal on your dislike for Gar, Raven and Star being on a team with Damian. 

FANS won't complain because DC tried that in Rebirth and they still complained.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I enjoyed supersons. Wasn't always a fan of how Damian was handled but i was sad to see it end. I do however agree that the distance will serve both characters well.
> 
> I hate how fans always bring up Damian when complaining about the Jon's age up.
> " Damian's missing his pal or Jon is lonely without his pal" "Maybe Damian should be aged up so he can be with his BFF" They bring up Jon when commenting on Damian's current TT arc. "If only Jon was here he'd balance him out or he wouldn't be acting this way"
> 
> That's fucking atrocious, rude and stupid. Damian is an established character and should not be constantly referenced as 1 half of a duo.
> 
> Not to mention that giving another character credit for his development/growth [that occurred before this new character was created] is hella disrespectful.
> 
> ...


While I was and am a big supporter of Damian, Jon, Maya, Colin, and Kathy all at least being on a team together (a group of friends, much like the OG Titans), Jon being aged up was so wrong for SO many reasons. Many of which were because of missing out on his own stories growing up and what not. And I wanted to see Damian and Jon go through growing up in their own ways, coming from their own backgrounds and what not.

Obviously, that didn't happen, and now I settle for fanfics that cover such things. Which are rather are hard to come by because a lot of writers like to write explicit material with a couple of kids! 

And Bendis' Jon is still fake Jon. A plant by Earth 3 to spy on the Justice League and the Legion in the future. The real one is stuck in an awful daycare that nullifies his powers, and he has to eat yucky food and be creeped out by "nice" Damian.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Well I read the new teen titans today, I hope they know what they are doing
> 
> *spoilers:*
>  Essentially someone has murdered Brother Blood and the teen titans want to figure out who did it, now its important to note that at no time did anyone call out Damian. No one talked in a corner suspecting him or talking about him, instead its left very vague about Damian while most of the issue has Damian saying to himself that he doesnt know what to do or how to channel himself without Alfred there to give him advice or guidance. 
> 
> Personally there are a lot of ways this can go down, they can either write that Damian went through with it or Bruce and others honestly believe he is responsible when he did nothing. Neither way sound like it would end well for Damian. Honestly I hope this doesnt go poorly for Damian, its clear hes already going through some things during this issue. 
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
 Hmm.. I wonder why Damian said "you need to know why" and not "we need to know why". I really really hope that I am wrong, but what if Damian is the one who killed Brother Blood and he led the team to Brother Blood's toxin supplies so they will see the benefit of killing Brother Blood? Then after said that vague sentence, he confessed his crime to Brother Blood?

But, if Damian really killed Brother Blood then he's screwed. His death is already aired on TV, so maybe police will investigate the crime. And perhaps Batman starts moving to track Damian on police's request. Speaking of Batman, I am ashamed that I just realized that the monologue on last page is Batman's monologue, not Damian's. They're really similar at some point aren't they. These Waynes....... they can't be functional human being without Alfred 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Light of Justice

> It's a combination of the bad luck and the fact that Damian was introduced just before DC went reboot crazy.
> 
> Bad luck 
> RSOB was cancelled for Supersons
> Supersons because Hot new writer had other plans
> Damian Son of Batman was a mini set while Damian was dead.
> 
> Tim was the only Robin with a series [Dick did have over 300 solo adventures featured in Star Spangled Comics back in the day]
> 
> ...


Until WB sent them an email? So Son of Batman'a movie is the reason why Damian's death is not permanent? I see.. Perhaps DC really don't want to bring him back, that's why they set Damian badly so they can get rid of him without any protest. Looking at the situation, perhaps it's better if Damian was permanently died on Batman Incorporated. No, I think it's better if Damian died in the end of RSOB for a long time, instead for a few minutes. I can see maya became devastated, came out of the cave, see Batman and Talia still argued with each other, and smack them both. Seriously my brain, stop creating angst plot!!!

Writers get loyalties from original characters, so maybe Thompson will create one or two original character to add them as new member of TT, replacing Damian and Djinn

----------


## Light of Justice

> I looked at the preview, so far no fighting. Just Terry getting Damian to the batcave to receive treatment for his wounds.


My bad. The cover lied to us. His fight with Terry is just like on one panel and even that because of after effect of Bruce's portable Lazarus Pit.
Hell... They really really do Damian dirty to bait readers

----------


## Rac7d*

Why do they want him to not belong so bad

And all the people who loved him for as he is taken away
Cut this future villain stuff

----------


## Morgoth

About Blood, judging by solitications, KGBeast has something to do with his murder. "*Robin begins a hunt that leads him to the KGBeast*, the same assassin who wounded and nearly killed the first Robin, Dick Grayson. Will Damian Wayne cross the line to enact brutal revenge on the Russian villain—or can the Teen Titans temper the current Robin’s rage?" - so, investigation probably will lead to KGBeast somehow, that's the reason why Damian will clash with him. And "crossing the line" part links to KGBeast as well. But again, maybe it's misleading or they changed plans. So, there's a good chance that Damian won't be a murderer after all. We'll see.

----------


## dietrich

> My bad. The cover lied to us. His fight with Terry is just like on one panel and even that because of after effect of Bruce's portable Lazarus Pit.
> Hell... They really really do Damian dirty to bait readers


Damian is the cad. He isn't supposed to be easy to like. Damian is designed to be the sort of character that you love to hate. Grant Morrison described him as just like Batman dialled up in a 10 year old body. His skills , personality, arrogance that comes with always winning because he knows he has the skill to back it up. So 'A really annoying little shit'.

He is flawed and not like the other Robins who are social and are usually good nice people. 

The Robin that pisses you off that is his corner. 

So I guess that's why he always gets the "Oh my god what the fuck has he done now type covers and stories.
Bendis said he has fun writing Damian because you can get away with saying and doing thing's that you can't with other heroes because he is a spoilt  brash kid with a mouth

----------


## dietrich

> Until WB sent them an email? So Son of Batman'a movie is the reason why Damian's death is not permanent? I see.. Perhaps DC really don't want to bring him back, that's why they set Damian badly so they can get rid of him without any protest. Looking at the situation, perhaps it's better if Damian was permanently died on Batman Incorporated. No, I think it's better if Damian died in the end of RSOB for a long time, instead for a few minutes. I can see maya became devastated, came out of the cave, see Batman and Talia still argued with each other, and smack them both. Seriously my brain, stop creating angst plot!!!
> 
> Writers get loyalties from original characters, so maybe Thompson will create one or two original character to add them as new member of TT, replacing Damian and Djinn


I don't know the contents of the WB email or why they decided to pull rank on DC to bring him back [someone likely saw potential in the Damian.  Damian also convinced them to give Clark a bio kid]

Dc was fine with replacing Damian. WB stepping in only became public knowledge because Snyder revealed it in an interview on why Duke didn't become Robin. 

I'm glad Damian was brought back.

----------


## Light of Justice

> About Blood, judging by solitications, KGBeast has something to do with his murder. "*Robin begins a hunt that leads him to the KGBeast*, the same assassin who wounded and nearly killed the first Robin, Dick Grayson. Will Damian Wayne cross the line to enact brutal revenge on the Russian villain—or can the Teen Titans temper the current Robin’s rage?" - so, investigation probably will lead to KGBeast somehow, that's the reason why Damian will clash with him. And "crossing the line" part links to KGBeast as well. But again, maybe it's misleading or they changed plans. So, there's a good chance that Damian won't be a murderer after all. We'll see.


Hmm.. but TT 44 solicitation implied that he will kill again, although not sure about that. Maybe the one who get changed is involvement of KGBeast, because I don't see how KGBeast related with Brother Blood's case. By the way, where's KGBeast right now? Last time I saw him when's he's incapitated after Bruce's beating, and I don't read Batgirl.

----------


## Morgoth

> Hmm.. but TT 44 solicitation implied that he will kill again, although not sure about that. Maybe the one who get changed is involvement of KGBeast, because I don't see how KGBeast related with Brother Blood's case. By the way, where's KGBeast right now? Last time I saw him when's he's incapitated after Bruce's beating, and I don't read Batgirl.


Solitications that type of thing, that can't be trust for sure) Just like posters - they showed there Blood's body and Damian's bloody hand, but in the issue they didn't confirm that he's the murderer, even with everything implying that's him. By the way, this, perhaps, shows that it is not him, because it’s too stupid writing, to make intrigue out of the obvious. But it also can happen anyway, so...
I've got a feeling, that they seriously changed plans. Blood's storyline originally wasn't even mentioned in solitications, and encounter with Bruce probably had to happen earlier.

----------


## Wingin' It

> Solitications that type of thing, that can't be trust for sure) Just like posters - they showed there Blood's body and Damian's bloody hand, but in the issue they didn't confirm that he's the murderer, even with everything implying that's him. By the way, this, perhaps, shows that it is not him, because it’s too stupid writing, to make intrigue out of the obvious. But it also can happen anyway, so...
> I've got a feeling, that they seriously changed plans. Blood's storyline originally wasn't even mentioned in solitications, and encounter with Bruce probably had to happen earlier.


I have a feeling that they're going to move in the direction of the Brother Blood storyline and that Damian's confrontation with the KGBeast has been dropped. The next issue  is who killed brother blood. Maybe because Dick is coming back so soon?

----------


## Digifiend

> Hmm.. but TT 44 solicitation implied that he will kill again, although not sure about that. Maybe the one who get changed is involvement of KGBeast, because I don't see how KGBeast related with Brother Blood's case. By the way, where's KGBeast right now? Last time I saw him when's he's incapitated after Bruce's beating, and I don't read Batgirl.


He was in Batgirl yesterday as it happens, fought Barbara and Batwoman.

----------


## dietrich

https://romyjones.tumblr.com

----------


## Godlike13

> I have a feeling that they're going to move in the direction of the Brother Blood storyline and that Damian's confrontation with the KGBeast has been dropped. The next issue  is who killed brother blood. Maybe because Dick is coming back so soon?


Damian might just investigate KG Beast as a potential killer and they are just trying to overplay it in the solics. Batgirl was suppose to have a similar confrontation today with KG Best in this weeks issue according to the solics. There was barely anything like the solic sells in the issue. Batgirl tells Batwoman to go get him. That was pretty much it. So it’s possible solicitations are severely overplaying things to mislead readers into ordering.

----------


## Grandmaster_J

> Hmm.. but TT 44 solicitation implied that he will kill again, although not sure about that. Maybe the one who get changed is involvement of KGBeast, because I don't see how KGBeast related with Brother Blood's case. By the way, where's KGBeast right now? Last time I saw him when's he's incapitated after Bruce's beating, and I don't read Batgirl.


I think I'd be happy more if DC committed to all their teasing of him killing again and save us from all the headaches.

----------


## shadow6743

> I think I'd be happy more if DC committed to all their teasing of him killing again and save us from all the headaches.



Covers and solicitations at this point are really just the equivalent of old fashioned carnival barkers on the comic book world. Covers and solicitations are just meant to catch the reader's attention. Think about if you think a character you like is going to become a murderer or be killed themselves based on a cover or solicitation you have to pick it up to find out. This sort of stuff has been in comics for decades now. They can't tell you what actually happens or you may not get you to buy out of fear.

Perfect example was in the New 52 Red Hood and the Outlaws run talking about the team breaking up and hating each other. Did that happen no. They just decided that they had other things to do and they left each other has friends.

Covers and solicitations at this point really mean nothing.

----------


## Astralabius

> Covers and solicitations at this point are really just the equivalent of old fashioned carnival barkers on the comic book world. Covers and solicitations are just meant to catch the reader's attention. Think about if you think a character you like is going to become a murderer or be killed themselves based on a cover or solicitation you have to pick it up to find out. This sort of stuff has been in comics for decades now. They can't tell you what actually happens or you may not get you to buy out of fear.


Or thanks to the internet you simply wait to see if there is a shitstorm about the issue and if you don't like what you're hearing you decide to not give DC your money for that book till reviews of the story start sounding better again.
I know lying to fans to get them to buy stuff is an old trick, but that doesn't mean I have to like it or give them money for it.
I would welcome it if DC made me buy stuff because it sounds like something I want to read about, instead of trying to make me buy their stories to see how they screwed up this time.

But I guess that only works for me because I buy digitally. I assume it's more difficult for comic shops that have to order months in advance.

----------


## Astralabius

> Solitications that type of thing, that can't be trust for sure) Just like posters - they showed there Blood's body and Damian's bloody hand, but in the issue they didn't confirm that he's the murderer, even with everything implying that's him. By the way, this, perhaps, shows that it is not him, because it’s too stupid writing, to make intrigue out of the obvious. But it also can happen anyway, so...
> I've got a feeling, that they seriously changed plans. Blood's storyline originally wasn't even mentioned in solitications, and encounter with Bruce probably had to happen earlier.


They definitely changed plans, we just don't know what the original plan was supposed to lead to and where it goes now.
Brother Blood already was on the original cover for 42, but the solicitation talked about Mercy Hall and Robin being gone after a confrontation with Batman aka the annual that was supposed to come out before 42.
Now the annual got pushed back to August, meaning the confrontation didn't happen yet, Mercy Hall and Robin are still there and even though the cover changed DC didn't bother to update the solicitation. I think the fight with KGBeast might still happen next issue. Damian either suspecting he might be behind this or trying to blame KGBeast for the kill sounds like a better explanation for why they are facing off than Damian suddenly deciding to enact revenge for Dick, something that happened months ago both for us and the characters.

Tynion said there are plans for Damian to show up in the bat titles again, we just don't know when that is going to be and how.
Event Leviathan: Checkmate was apparently supposed to have Damian in it, maybe he was supposed to go there after the events of the annual.
DC announced that Checkmate is postponed indefinitely yesterday. It's supposed to come back, but it sounds like too many plans at DC changed to publish the story as it was originally written.
If Damian really was supposed to end up in the Checkmate storyline he might not go there now. Maybe he'll show up in Batman or Detective Comics instead.

----------


## Morgoth

As far as I remember, Bendis said that Damian was supposed to play a big role in Checkmate, alongside Talia.
Maybe that major change is his dissapperance after annual. And after that they don't want to show him until right time. In fact, this is a very interesting point regarding future plans in principle. It was announced, that Checkmate "rescheduled to align with upcoming DC Universe storylines."

----------


## dietrich

bendis powers have been cut back which is why Checkmate plans have been scaled back.
AT&T are getting rid of duds and stripping WB. The changes are to do with that nothing to do with Robin.
The gaming division is on the chopping block. There's speculation that comics will be next but I doubt it. A company like AT&t needs the material that Dc provides.

Right now there's so much going on and so much changing that it's hard to even tell what's going on. There's so much going on. If the animation department is really coming in to run the comics as announced then nothing up till now matters.

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## shadow6743

> bendis powers have been cut back which is why Checkmate plans have been scaled back.
> AT&T are getting rid of duds and stripping WB. The changes are to do with that nothing to do with Robin.
> The gaming division is on the chopping block. There's speculation that comics will be next but I doubt it. A company like AT&t needs the material that Dc provides.
> 
> Right now there's so much going on and so much changing that it's hard to even tell what's going on. There's so much going on. If the animation department is really coming in to run the comics as announced then nothing up till now matters.



If the people who control DC animation is coming in to run the comics that would be great to me. Has anyone else seen the new Superman trailer? Also Tomasi has been having a lot of control over animated features for DC Comics when it comes to Superman. So Supersons could come back. Also other writers like Gail Simone and Marguerite Scott are involved with the animated Wonder Woman movies. So I wouldn't mind it at all you would have a diverse group of talented creators who have written great works for DC and have a great understanding of the universe and its characters. I really wouldn't mind this at all.

One person should not be the architect of the DC Universe. Bendis was able to do that at Marvel because he was a big name and he had a plan at Marvel and no one was there to take control from him. At DC I feel like a lot of writers have a idea of where DC should be going but Bendis was given control because DC wanted to show they got him. However, Bendis's idea of where the DCU should be going doesn't really fit DC. It feels hollow because it took away so many aspects that I think made the Rebirth era of DC rather successful.

----------


## Astralabius

> bendis powers have been cut back which is why Checkmate plans have been scaled back.
> AT&T are getting rid of duds and stripping WB. The changes are to do with that nothing to do with Robin.
> The gaming division is on the chopping block. There's speculation that comics will be next but I doubt it. A company like AT&t needs the material that Dc provides.
> 
> Right now there's so much going on and so much changing that it's hard to even tell what's going on. There's so much going on. If the animation department is really coming in to run the comics as announced then nothing up till now matters.


I never said Checkmate only got postponed because of Damian, there were a lot of plans that got changed that would lead to whatever Bendis had planned not working out with the rest of the DC universe anymore.
I just meant that Damian might be one of the changes. There are rumors the bat-office wants to get back control over characters they gave to other writers or departments.
We know Damian was supposed to play a big role in Checkmate, but we also know from Tynion that Damian is now set to appear in the batman titles again at some point. Letting the Batman writers decide what to do with Batman's son instead of letting him be controlled by Bendis makes sense.

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## Morgoth

The point is that plans incredibly changed. Bendis was among writers who worked on 5G, Checkmate had some strong connection to it, I'm sure of that. But we all know what happened. Speaking of Damian, it’s clear that he’s not the main reason, but he’s obviously just one of those factors why Checkmate will have to be redone at least, because there was clearly a completely different direction. Just like, for example, Green Arrow, who also had a big role there and probably will have different storyline in the future, than originally planned.

----------


## Astralabius

> The point is that plans incredibly changed. Bendis was among writers who worked on 5G, Checkmate had some strong connection to it, I'm sure of that. But we all know what happened. Speaking of Damian, it’s clear that he’s not the main reason, but he’s obviously just one of those factors why Checkmate will have to be redone at least, because there was clearly a completely different direction. Just like, for example, Green Arrow, who also had a big role there and probably will have different storyline in the future, than originally planned.


Exactly. I only talked about how this might impact Damian because this is the Damian appreciation thread, but characters like Green Arrow might be impacted too.

And plans for Damian have changed enough that DC felt the need to insert a new arc before Damian goes missing after the annual. I assume he was already supposed to go missing after April and the solicitation with Damian still as Robin fighting KGBeast was already part of the changed plans.
If DC handn't changed plans the annual would have come out mid July, but now it comes out at the end of August. Why exactly DC decided to have Damian go missing later than originally planned I don't know. But I assume it's so him going missing aligns better with where and when he's supposed to show up next.

----------


## Fergus

wasn't it announced a while back that Tim will be returning to the Bat books along with Steph. I think that Tynion is going to try to push Tim as the new side kick just like he did when he was on Rebirth Tec

----------


## Rac7d*

> wasn't it announced a while back that Tim will be returning to the Bat books along with Steph. I think that Tynion is going to try to push Tim as the new side kick just like he did when he was on Rebirth Tec


The new old side kick? To perpetuate him as the stagnate Robin?  Hmmm I bet they renig on Tim and let step have the role or duke or cass or his son Damian just to have a little diversity

----------


## Light of Justice

> The new old side kick? To perpetuate him as the stagnate Robin?  Hmmm I bet they renig on Tim and let step have the role or duke or cass or his son Damian just to have a little diversity


I am probably one of few people who don't want Duke to become Robin after Damian. Not that I hate him as Robin, but on this continuity, as far as I know he already declared out loud that he's not Robin 3 times, on Robin War, on Bat-Burger, and when Alfred announced Selina-Bruce engagement. Unlike Dick, Tim, Steph, even Jason and Damian who on their first time saw Robin title as something amazing, he already know what kind of crazy, fucked up will happen on Robin. Him willingly become Robin just like a stupid person who willingly jump into the abyss. But who knows? Perhaps after Damian is missing his heroic sense will take Robin title to safe whoever innocent kid Bruce adopts next XD XD After all, like dietrich said Duke once supposed to be Damian's replacement if his death on Batman Incorporated became permanent. 

Cass? I don't think she will be Robin, she's too skilled to be Batman's sidekick. I can see Steph become Robin again, but after what happened on her time as Robin, I don't think she will take that title again willingly. 
Sad thing to say (because I want Tim to have new cool independent identity which is not DRAKE), but if Batman doesn't adopt another child and choose someone from his family to be Robin after Damian, for me the most possible person is Tim. His independent identity doesn't get good response from fans, he's still called Robin on some occasion on YJ, BTAS have Tim as Robin and that book quite popular, and the writer of next Batman era is Tynion, one of Tim's biggest fan. Tynion will have excuse to write more Tim than any Batfam member if Tim become Robin.

----------


## Morgoth

It would be great. Tynion wrote excellent Detective Comics stories with Tim, so, I would like to see him back with Stephanie. And Damian won't be Robin anyway. They can put him in Detective Comics, by the way, since Tomasi is writing it right now. If he will stay, of course.

----------


## Jackalope89

Ah, Tim. The "Ash Ketchum" of DC Comics.

----------


## shadow6743

Am I the only one who thinks they should have kept Tim as Red Robin and given him a solo series again? Like that is one of the few times I truly understood why Tim matters to the Batman lore. Now Tim and the other characters of his generation live through 90s nostalgia unable to advance or do anything new.

Instead of Tim being in Young Justice they should make him the lead of Dectective Comics. But that's just me I am happy for the people who are enjoying Young Justice.

----------


## Blue22

As someone who was REALLY looking forward to Bendis' Young Justice when I first heard about it, I'd have rather we got a Tim and Steph series instead of what we have now. Young Justice is just...such a bore. And Tim's new codename is dumb. I'd have rather seen him stay with his Tec team as Red Robin than this.

As for Damian, it pains me to say this because I think a team book with him in it could really work but he's struck out twice now and just needs to be by himself for a bit or with Dick when he comes back. I havent hated either Titan series that Damian's been a part of (in fact, I was kinda enjoying Percy's run) but both of them have been kinda "...meh" in terms of quality and the likability of the teams. Glass' run was technically better written and seemed to have more of...a point. But the only characters I've come to care about are Damian and Djinn. And they're both gone or on their way out. Crush is alright. Emiko grew on me but not enough. Wallace isn't nearly as grating as he was in Percy's run but I still don't like him. And Roundhouse....yeah so anyway. This ain't a solid enough team to keep me reading once Damian's gone. If all of them got put on a bus, you wouldn't hear me complain. 

I dont know where DC is going with Damian now. But if his characterization in the current Teen Titans run is anything to go by, I dont know if I'm gonna like it. I'd prefer he become Dick's partner again instead of Bruce's and be a regular on Nightwing for a while. But that's definitely not happening. So I don't know what to do with him.

----------


## king81992

> As someone who was REALLY looking forward to Bendis' Young Justice when I first heard about it, I'd have rather we got a Tim and Steph series instead of what we have now. Young Justice is just...such a bore. And Tim's new codename is dumb. I'd have rather seen him stay with his Tec team as Red Robin than this.
> 
> As for Damian, it pains me to say this because I think a team book with him in it could really work but he's struck out twice now and just needs to be by himself for a bit or with Dick when he comes back. I havent hated either Titan series that Damian's been a part of (in fact, I was kinda enjoying Percy's run) but both of them have been kinda "...meh" in terms of quality and the likability of the teams. Glass' run was technically better written and seemed to have more of...a point. But the only characters I've come to care about are Damian and Djinn. And they're both gone or on their way out. Crush is alright. Emiko grew on me but not enough. Wallace isn't nearly as grating as he was in Percy's run but I still don't like him. And Roundhouse....yeah so anyway. This ain't a solid enough team to keep me reading once Damian's gone. If all of them got put on a bus, you wouldn't hear me complain. 
> 
> I dont know where DC is going with Damian now. But if his characterization in the current Teen Titans run is anything to go by, I dont know if I'm gonna like it. I'd prefer he become Dick's partner again instead of Bruce's and be a regular on Nightwing for a while. But that's definitely not happening. So I don't know what to do with him.


I've enjoyed Bendis's YJ (probably the best thing he's written in years) and like the story's direction, but the roster is overcrowded(the YJ cartoon also suffers from this problem). 

The only character I've come to slightly care about from the current roster is Roundhouse. Didn't care for Djin or Crush(the most recent issue was the first time I thought she was likable) and grew to dislike Emiko. Wallace's problem is that writers want him to be the team's conscience, but won't let him put his foot down when everyone's crossing the line.

Damian should be Dick's partner or on a team where he isn't the leader(self proclaimed or otherwise). I feel like he's either headed for a heel turn or being a solo act for a while. i'd like to see Damian interact with his dad more, but current Batman is not a good parental figure at all(he hasn't been one in years, but he's reached a new low in the past three to five years).

----------


## shadow6743

I wouldn't mind at all if Damian left the Teen Titans book for a while. It means other characters can get more development. I know this is the Damian Wayne appreciation forum but I don't read Teen Titans for Damian I read it for Teen Titans. One of the major problems with Percy's run is that he focused so much on Damian that other characters were neglected in terms of development. Glass' used Damian in his run but he is not the total focus other members had interesting arcs that kept me interested and I will be continuing to read once Damian is gone. To be honest every Robin has left the Teen Titans at one point or another and came back so this is just part of the course of reading Teen Titans for me.

----------


## Blue22

In most Teen Titans runs I'd say I wasn't reading for one single character. But I was legitimately only in this for Damian and, to an extent, Djinn. This team just...doesn't appeal to me. I've said it before. This has been a good-ish book...but it's not what I wanted from a Teen Titans book.

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## king81992

> In most Teen Titans runs I'd say I wasn't reading for one single character. But I was legitimately only in this for Damian and, to an extent, Djinn. This team just...doesn't appeal to me. I've said it before. This has been a good-ish book...but it's not what I wanted from a Teen Titans book.


'Good-ish' is a bit generous, the current run basically turned all of the negative cliches/tropes associated with the Teen Titans franchise(team dysfunction and betrayal)  up to eleven. The only positive thing about this run(so far) is that the writers haven't killed off characters for shock value. 

I wonder if it was Glass's intention for readers to think that all the bad things that happened to the roster were justified, because that's how I felt while reading.

----------


## dietrich

> In most Teen Titans runs I'd say I wasn't reading for one single character. But I was legitimately only in this for Damian and, to an extent, Djinn. This team just...doesn't appeal to me. I've said it before. This has been a good-ish book...but it's not what I wanted from a Teen Titans book.


See I'm different. Never been a fan of TT  [still not] so was only reading for Damian. This run was the 1st time TT was ever interesting

----------


## dietrich

> I am probably one of few people who don't want Duke to become Robin after Damian. Not that I hate him as Robin, but on this continuity, as far as I know he already declared out loud that he's not Robin 3 times, on Robin War, on Bat-Burger, and when Alfred announced Selina-Bruce engagement. Unlike Dick, Tim, Steph, even Jason and Damian who on their first time saw Robin title as something amazing, he already know what kind of crazy, fucked up will happen on Robin. Him willingly become Robin just like a stupid person who willingly jump into the abyss. But who knows? Perhaps after Damian is missing his heroic sense will take Robin title to safe whoever innocent kid Bruce adopts next XD XD After all, like dietrich said Duke once supposed to be Damian's replacement if his death on Batman Incorporated became permanent. 
> 
> Cass? I don't think she will be Robin, she's too skilled to be Batman's sidekick. I can see Steph become Robin again, but after what happened on her time as Robin, I don't think she will take that title again willingly. 
> Sad thing to say (because I want Tim to have new cool independent identity which is not DRAKE), but if Batman doesn't adopt another child and choose someone from his family to be Robin after Damian, for me the most possible person is Tim. His independent identity doesn't get good response from fans, he's still called Robin on some occasion on YJ, BTAS have Tim as Robin and that book quite popular, and the writer of next Batman era is Tynion, one of Tim's biggest fan. Tynion will have excuse to write more Tim than any Batfam member if Tim become Robin.


What are the numbers for BTAS?

----------


## king81992

> See I'm different. Never been a fan of TT  [still not] so was only reading for Damian. This run was the 1st time TT was ever interesting


TT was interesting before Damian, but this run was interesting for all the wrong reasons.

I wasn't a fan of the recent DC cartoon movies, but they did one thing right: Damian grew as a leader.

----------


## dietrich

> wasn't it announced a while back that Tim will be returning to the Bat books along with Steph. I think that Tynion is going to try to push Tim as the new side kick just like he did when he was on Rebirth Tec


So long as Damian doesn't go back under the batman office . The superman office has been great for him. Rebirth gave us so many amazing writers using him. I was spoilt for choice. I doubt he would have gotten that under the bat office.

having read the experiences of the batgirl writer. The bat office is a joke and fosters the worst working conditions.

----------


## dietrich

> TT was interesting before Damian, but this run was interesting for all the wrong reasons.
> 
> I wasn't a fan of the recent DC cartoon movies, but they did one thing right: Damian grew as a leader.


It wasn't. I've never been able to get into TT not even the old gold standard ones like NTT
Damian, Crush and co made TT interesting for me.

Damian got older in the animated world. Age = wisdom
Comic Damian isn't as old as Movie Damian so why do yo expect him to act the same?

You never did enlighten me on which Established members should be included to make TT a success.

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## shadow6743

> It wasn't. I've never been able to get into TT not even the old gold standard ones like NTT
> Damian, Crush and co made TT interesting for me.
> 
> Damian got older in the animated world. Age = wisdom
> Comic Damian isn't as old as Movie Damian so why do yo expect him to act the same?
> 
> You never did enlighten me on which Established members should be included to make TT a success.


Percy's run used established members and to be honest I don't want to read about the established members of the Teen Titans. I want to read about a new generation of Teen Titans something that Glass' gave me and other people who wanted something new with his run. If I wanted to read about the old established characters I can go read New Teen Titans, Titans, Teen Titans from Geoff John's, or the silver age or bronze age stories. Then there is the Young Justice show and the orginal Teen Titans show that basically is a greatest hits of the New Teen Titans in animated form. Those stories are all ready out there and written. 

I don't want to keep reading the same characters over and over again in the same situation. I never want to see the old guard of Titans on Damian's team again because not only do I find it rather boring because nothing new is really going to happen. But also I think it is really damaging to a character to keep them stagnant. There is only so many times I can watch the Titans fight Trigon before I lose interest.

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## king81992

> It wasn't. I've never been able to get into TT not even the old gold standard ones like NTT
> Damian, Crush and co made TT interesting for me.
> 
> Damian got older in the animated world. Age = wisdom
> Comic Damian isn't as old as Movie Damian so why do yo expect him to act the same?
> 
> You never did enlighten me on which Established members should be included to make TT a success.


I've been thinking about that and I've come to the conclusion that having established members on the team means NOTHING if the people writing the comics insist on rehashing the same old, obsolete cliches of team dysfunction, betrayal and shock value death. If the current run had a different roster and the storyline stayed the same, it would still be an awful run.

----------


## shadow6743

> I've been thinking about that and I've come to the conclusion that having established members on the team means NOTHING if the people writing the comics insist on rehashing the same old, obsolete cliches of team dysfunction, betrayal and shock value death. If the current run had a different roster and the storyline stayed the same, it would still be an awful run.


That's just how Teen Titans is written if you look back a DC history Wolfman established with new Teen Titans that the book is best written as a soap opera. He literally said that the book is meant to be a soap opera so you have these cliches. Also I've said this before they're teenagers if they were able to handle things efficiently they will be adults and they will be on the Justice League. You are expecting a maturity from characters who literally are undergoing the process of maturing.

Also, comics like all art is subjective Glass' run to me is probably one of the most interesting comics I read in a while at DC. So I respectfully disagree with you on his run being awful.

----------


## sifighter

I really wanted to ask this here since Damian will be a big part of the sequel, but is it true that comics for this week including DCeased: Dead Planet have been pushed back to July 7th?

----------


## shadow6743

> It wasn't. I've never been able to get into TT not even the old gold standard ones like NTT
> Damian, Crush and co made TT interesting for me.
> 
> Damian got older in the animated world. Age = wisdom
> Comic Damian isn't as old as Movie Damian so why do yo expect him to act the same?
> 
> You never did enlighten me on which Established members should be included to make TT a success.



Everyone always talks about how bad Damian is as a leader but his big brothers Dick and Tim also started out as rather bad leaders too. None of the Robins were effective leaders when they first started out. Dick really didn't grow to the leader we know today until he was in his late teens nearly becoming Nightwing. Tim wasn't truly effective until he was Red Robin. Damian is 13 by the end of the those movies he was nearly 15 or 16. If you read any old Teen Titans books you will see Dick and Tim underwent serious growth in their leadership throughout the years to become what they are known for today. That is the point of Teen Titans to see that growth in these young heroes as they learn from their past mistakes. So I completely agree that with age comes wisdom. Damian is still only 13 in the comics.

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## king81992

> That's just how Teen Titans is written if you look back a DC history Wolfman established with new Teen Titans that the book is best written as a soap opera. He literally said that the book is meant to be a soap opera so you have these cliches. Also I've said this before they're teenagers if they were able to handle things efficiently they will be adults and they will be on the Justice League. You are expecting a maturity from characters who literally are undergoing the process of maturing.
> 
> Also, comics like all art is subjective Glass' run to me is probably one of the most interesting comics I read in a while at DC. So I respectfully disagree with you on his run being awful.


The soap opera angle worked(though there were a few things I thought went horribly wrong as the series progressed) in the 1980s when Wolfman was writing, but it's not working now and hasn't worked for years. A new angle is needed.

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## ChangingStation

> So long as Damian doesn't go back under the batman office . The superman office has been great for him. Rebirth gave us so many amazing writers using him. I was spoilt for choice. I doubt he would have gotten that under the bat office.
> 
> having read the experiences of the batgirl writer. The bat office is a joke and fosters the worst working conditions.


Last I checked, I think those very same editors moved over to the Superman Offices. So, you might want to have seconds thoughts over that.

----------


## shadow6743

> The soap opera angle worked(though there were a few things I thought went horribly wrong as the series progressed) in the 1980s when Wolfman was writing, but it's not working now and hasn't worked for years. A new angle is needed.


But, at this point I wouldn't remove the soap opera angle from Teen Titans because then what makes it different from other books featuring young heroes? Now the comic book market has so many options for reading about young heroes Ms. Marvel, Spider-Man Miles Morales, Runaways, Wonder Twins, Young Justice, Naomi, Champions if Marvel Comics brings that back. Although, I find it interesting that Champions was the kind of fun book that some people say they wanted Teen Titans to be. It had established characters who either had their own books or just completed their runs on their titles. Not to mention fun stories.
But, that book got canceled. So, being different from the norm of Superhero titles is really a good thing for Teen Titans overall.

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## king81992

> But, at this point I wouldn't remove the soap opera angle from Teen Titans because then what makes it different from other books featuring young heroes? Now the comic book market has so many options for reading about young heroes Ms. Marvel, Spider-Man Miles Morales, Runaways, Wonder Twins, Young Justice, Naomi, Champions if Marvel Comics brings that back. Although, I find it interesting that Champions was the kind of fun book that some people say they wanted Teen Titans to be. It had established characters who either had their own books or just completed their runs on their titles. Not to mention fun stories.
> But, that book got canceled. So, being different from the norm of Superhero titles is really a good thing for Teen Titans overall.


Champions was good, I was disappointed when it got cancelled. A certain subset of fans hated that book because they felt that it had too many minorities, was ' too woke'and felt that the older generation of Marvel heroes were going to be replaced. Sometimes I wonder if the ranting if those fans played a role in the book getting cancelled.

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## shadow6743

> Champions was good, I was disappointed when it got cancelled. A certain subset of fans hated that book because they felt that it had too many minorities, was ' too woke'and felt that the older generation of Marvel heroes were going to be replaced. Sometimes I wonder if the ranting if those fans played a role in the book getting cancelled.


I don't think it was those toxic fans. More than anything I think the way the Marvel universe is setup caused that book to really not stand a chance. From the moment that Stan Lee killed off the character of Bucky Marvel basically removed any aspects of sickicks or legacy characters from their universe. 

Now that they are trying to establish their own version of the Teen Titans a team focusing on establishing young characters who are typically legacy characters or sidekicks when their own universe is not built on that concept of legacy and generations of heroes like DC I feel like Champions was doomed to fail. DC took over 75 years to establish multiple generations of heroes and legacy characters. Marvel wants legacy without putting in the work.

Perfect example to compete with Detective Comics 1000 and Action Comics 1000 they put out Marvel Comics 1000. Not Amazing Spiderman 1000 or Captain America 1000 but Marvel Comics 1000. That's kind of attitude is why Champions failed.

----------


## Astralabius

> Everyone always talks about how bad Damian is as a leader but his big brothers Dick and Tim also started out as rather bad leaders too. None of the Robins were effective leaders when they first started out. Dick really didn't grow to the leader we know today until he was in his late teens nearly becoming Nightwing. Tim wasn't truly effective until he was Red Robin. Damian is 13 by the end of the those movies he was nearly 15 or 16. If you read any old Teen Titans books you will see Dick and Tim underwent serious growth in their leadership throughout the years to become what they are known for today. That is the point of Teen Titans to see that growth in these young heroes as they learn from their past mistakes. So I completely agree that with age comes wisdom. Damian is still only 13 in the comics.


I would agree to some degree, but Damian hasn't learned anything in this book, he has only forgotten about things he already knew.
Characters starting out making mistakes and learning from them is growth, Damian in TT is either going in circles or getting worse.
That's not something we want to read. And unlike you most people in this thread really only read this book for Damian. I would argue the majority or readers did, probably one of the reasons sales have become so bad. A lot of Damian fans don't want to pay money for seeing Damian get trashed.

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## Aahz

> The soap opera angle worked(though there were a few things I thought went horribly wrong as the series progressed) in the 1980s when Wolfman was writing, but it's not working now and hasn't worked for years.


Did we really had books that went for the soap opera angle in the past years?

----------


## Astralabius

> I wouldn't mind at all if Damian left the Teen Titans book for a while. It means other characters can get more development. I know this is the Damian Wayne appreciation forum but I don't read Teen Titans for Damian I read it for Teen Titans. One of the major problems with Percy's run is that he focused so much on Damian that other characters were neglected in terms of development. Glass' used Damian in his run but he is not the total focus other members had interesting arcs that kept me interested and I will be continuing to read once Damian is gone. To be honest every Robin has left the Teen Titans at one point or another and came back so this is just part of the course of reading Teen Titans for me.


I think this book is going to tank even harder once Damian is gone. And I really hope Damian doesn't return to this team. Too much bad history. Let this team die.

----------


## Morgoth

> Champions was good, I was disappointed when it got cancelled.


If you're talking about Marvel's Champions, they're going back this autumn with Outlawed storyline.
Regarding Titans, just my opinion, but they indeed need some big reboot and completely new and strong writer. New 52 run was horrible, Percy's run wasn't bad at all, but the biggest mistake from the beginning was to utilize original members alongside Damian, instead of letting them go (yeah, I know that they're popular and that was the reason) and using characters from Damian's generation, like Nobody, Emiko, Jon, Kathy, Wallace also would fit there way better, and that would follow original idea at least. Glass had a right concept from the beggining - using a new characters instead of the old ones, but great concept was ruined by the desire to write not the Titans, but some teenage Suicide Squad, lol. And storyline was clearly influenced by changing plans, at first there was one direction, now it has changed, and no one knows what will happen next. But new characters were alright, the only thing, I didn't like Jinn. It wasn't worst run ever, but it could've been better, but again, just my opinion. 
Speaking specifically about Damian, now, in all probability, the main goal is to bring him out of the Titans and continue his arc already in the Batcomics. Judging by all that's going on, apparently, Tynion and Abernatti want to collect all the Bat characters and use them without looking at other comics. Most likely this is the reason why Damian will be removed from the Titans in general. And that's why Tim probably will head back to Gotham and will be there. Bat-editor group wants them all.

----------


## king81992

> I don't think it was those toxic fans. More than anything I think the way the Marvel universe is setup caused that book to really not stand a chance. From the moment that Stan Lee killed off the character of Bucky Marvel basically removed any aspects of sickicks or legacy characters from their universe. 
> 
> Now that they are trying to establish their own version of the Teen Titans a team focusing on establishing young characters who are typically legacy characters or sidekicks when their own universe is not built on that concept of legacy and generations of heroes like DC I feel like Champions was doomed to fail. DC took over 75 years to establish multiple generations of heroes and legacy characters. Marvel wants legacy without putting in the work.
> 
> Perfect example to compete with Detective Comics 1000 and Action Comics 1000 they put out Marvel Comics 1000. Not Amazing Spiderman 1000 or Captain America 1000 but Marvel Comics 1000. That's kind of attitude is why Champions failed.


True, but I feel like Marvel is doing a better job with their teenage characters right now than DC.

----------


## Digifiend

That's not hard - too many big name Titans are in limbo.


> If you're talking about Marvel's Champions, they're going back this autumn with Outlawed storyline.
> 
> Speaking specifically about Damian, now, in all probability, the main goal is to bring him out of the Titans and continue his arc already in the Batcomics. Judging by all that's going on, apparently, Tynion and Abernatti want to collect all the Bat characters and use them without looking at other comics. Most likely this is the reason why Damian will be removed from the Titans in general. And that's why Tim probably will head back to Gotham and will be there. Bat-editor group wants them all.


Yeah, I'd be very surprised if Champions isn't in the October solicits, as both Miles Morales and Ms. Marvel are back in September.

And yes, that YJ issue about Tim and Steph seems to be setting up their departure from the team. Looks like Impulse will be taking charge, as he was the one who recruited the newer members. TT needs some new members if it's going to continue much longer. It can't survive with only four members and no Trinity rep.

----------


## Blue22

I liked Percy's run going for a mix of the old generation (Kory, Gar, and Raven) and the new (Damian, Jackson, and Wallace). It reminded me of Johns' run in that regard, and that was my favorite TT run so I was already on board with the concept. 

It's just....the execution was lacking. The team just had zero chemistry with each other, aside from everyone but Jackson bickering with Damian all the time (almost like it was trying to prepare us for Glass' run). And while Damian being the one who brings them together is cool...him being the leader just seemed really...unearned. Mostly because this was his first real experience on a team, and said team has *three* veteran Titans (All of whom have had leadership experience over the years if the Titans' previous history has really been restored). It makes sense for a character with his...ego to try to be the leader, but for the others to go along with it (even if it seemed like they were just humoring him sometimes) didn't. One of the only times I really felt like he needed to lead that team was when he fired Wallace. But then everyone treated him like the bad guy for that, and Wallace had the nerve to act like he was owed an apology. 

It was a nice assortment of characters (Minus Wallace. But Glass' run did make me warm up to him a little. I don't hate him anymore. Now I just think he's boring. I'd have switched him out for Jackson at the start and have Jon take the "new guy" position). But, outside of Aqualad's arc, it just didn't really feel like it was going anywhere. Like Percy had all the right pieces but didn't know what to do with them.

----------


## sifighter

Well while it appears DCeased Dead Planet is now scheduled for next week, it would appear that the digital exclusive Hope at worlds end #4 will be out tomorrow with the story of Damian becoming Batman. Here’s the solicitation.

“The world needs a Batman but Damian is struggling with the enormity of the mantle…can the Man of Steel help? And seeking safe haven, Suicide Squad’s Wink and The Aerie reach the fortress of Jotunheim…but is anywhere left on Earth safe from the unliving?!"

----------


## dietrich

> Well while it appears DCeased Dead Planet is now scheduled for next week, it would appear that the digital exclusive Hope at worlds end #4 will be out tomorrow with the story of Damian becoming Batman. Heres the solicitation.
> 
> The world needs a Batman but Damian is struggling with the enormity of the mantlecan the Man of Steel help? And seeking safe haven, Suicide Squads Wink and The Aerie reach the fortress of Jotunheimbut is anywhere left on Earth safe from the unliving?!"


It did stand out to me that Damian in the 1st series kept referring to his dad as batman even after Bruce passed and he donned the cowl

----------


## dietrich

With cons cancelled DC's doing an online con so if you have have any questions re Damian, his future , Robin, Tt etc then you can submit your questions

https://questions.dcfandome.com/

The Damirav fandom have been circulating this like crazy. I hope most questions re Damian don't end up shipping related.
Now that he's had one love interest some fans are going crazy even bugging Tom Taylor about a possible WonderBat in DCeased.
WTF!?

Damian isn't a ladykiller he can barely relate with people not to mention having multi love interests

----------


## Morgoth

> With cons cancelled DC's doing an online con so if you have have any questions re Damian, his future , Robin, Tt etc then you can submit your questions
> 
> https://questions.dcfandome.com/
> 
> The Damirav fandom have been circulating this like crazy. I hope most questions re Damian don't end up shipping related.


At least half will be, probably. Especially regarding Raven. This whole thing, to my great surprise, really turned out to be popular, lol.
I just hope that at this event will be some information about his next alias and direction, since it will start already after Annual, so he won't be a Robin at that moment.

----------


## Light of Justice

> With cons cancelled DC's doing an online con so if you have have any questions re Damian, his future , Robin, Tt etc then you can submit your questions
> 
> https://questions.dcfandome.com/
> 
> The Damirav fandom have been circulating this like crazy. I hope most questions re Damian don't end up shipping related.
> Now that he's had one love interest some fans are going crazy even bugging Tom Taylor about a possible WonderBat in DCeased.
> WTF!?
> 
> Damian isn't a ladykiller he can barely relate with people not to mention having multi love interests


I think Damian is the type of man who make women feel disappointed in the moment he opened his mouth XD

----------


## Light of Justice

> At least half will be, probably. Especially regarding Raven. This whole thing, to my great surprise, really turned out to be popular, lol.


For me for some reason fans are kinda desperate for him to have love interest. When he just had Colin as his only possible friend, some fans already made romantic fanfic about them. Also with Maya. I even found some fic about him and steph, him and maps, him and Jon (mostly superbat fans). Also him and Marinette, the fact that his pairing with a girl from a completely unrelated TV show are quite popular speaks about how thirsty some fans for Damian to have a pairing.




> I just hope that at this event will be some information about his next alias and direction, since it will start already after Annual, so he won't be a Robin at that moment.


I have a feeling DC is not generous enough to give us big spoiler like that, but at least they will cruel enough to torment us by teasing with some information, even though probably it will make us more frustrated.

----------


## Light of Justice

> What are the numbers for BTAS?


You mean number of sales? I don't know about that, but I often see many people want to buy BTAS merchandise on twitter. And Batman : The Adventure Continue (alias continuation of TAS and has Tim as Robin) are on top 25 advanced reorder chart placed between May 11-17, 2020, on comichron June 2020.

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## Morgoth

> For me for some reason fans are kinda desperate for him to have love interest. When he just had Colin as his only possible friend, some fans already made romantic fanfic about them. Also with Maya. I even found some fic about him and steph, him and maps, him and Jon (mostly superbat fans). Also him and Marinette, the fact that his pairing with a girl from a completely unrelated TV show are quite popular speaks about how thirsty some fans for Damian to have a pairing.


Well, it's typical for absolutely any fandom. It's really a big (but often annoying) part of any fan base, starting from Harry Potter and Star Wars and finishing on, I don't know, Attack on Titan or Brandon Sanderson's books. All of them have got that aspect.
And with such archetypes like Damian has it is even more pronounced. All story with Raven, for example, it's a typical, but a popular trop. Maybe that's the reason why it worked. I just suprised, because right now it seems like that this entire Damian/Raven thing is the only thing from DCAMU (which had at least mixed reviews) what became really popular. And that concerns me, because DC easily can put this into comics just because of that (just like has been done with Raven and Beast Boy at the beggining), and that will be weird for number of reasons.



> I have a feeling DC is not generous enough to give us big spoiler like that, but at least they will cruel enough to torment us by teasing with some information, even though probably it will make us more frustrated


I still think that he'll appear at the end of Joker War, in 100th issue (it's the late September - the early October, don't remember, need to check). That's the excellent way to set up his new chapter, along with that big direction that Tynion was talking about.
I think Damian fans will like Deceased At World’s End #4) It was great.

----------


## sifighter

As a Damian fan I did like Hope at Worlds End#4, and while the story was expected from what we’ve seen already it was nice to have. Besides Damian the rest of the issue focused on the Aerie and Wink from the current Suicide Still run also written by Taylor which I do recommend.

*spoilers:*
 I don’t want to ruin it for people but basically it’s the moment where Damian suits up to be the new Batman after a heart to heart with Superman. It’s a relatively sweet moment and Damian comes off as pretty respectful to Bruce even as he still argues about him. It’s probably the best we are going to get for a while of Damian suiting up to be Batman and I guess plays an interesting parallel for when Taylor made Damian Nightwing in Injustice, if you want to look at it that way.

Also apparently Damian is only 12, at least that’s what Superman said. 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## king81992

> With cons cancelled DC's doing an online con so if you have have any questions re Damian, his future , Robin, Tt etc then you can submit your questions
> 
> https://questions.dcfandome.com/
> 
> The Damirav fandom have been circulating this like crazy. I hope most questions re Damian don't end up shipping related.
> Now that he's had one love interest some fans are going crazy even bugging Tom Taylor about a possible WonderBat in DCeased.
> WTF!?
> 
> Damian isn't a ladykiller he can barely relate with people not to mention having multi love interests


Damian x Raven is one of those ships I will never understand. It worked in the recent movies,but I can't see it being implemented or working in the comics.

----------


## Light of Justice

> As a Damian fan I did like Hope at Worlds End#4, and while the story was expected from what we’ve seen already it was nice to have. Besides Damian the rest of the issue focused on the Aerie and Wink from the current Suicide Still run also written by Taylor which I do recommend.
> 
> *spoilers:*
>  I don’t want to ruin it for people but basically it’s the moment where Damian suits up to be the new Batman after a heart to heart with Superman. It’s a relatively sweet moment and Damian comes off as pretty respectful to Bruce even as he still argues about him. It’s probably the best we are going to get for a while of Damian suiting up to be Batman and I guess plays an interesting parallel for when Taylor made Damian Nightwing in Injustice, if you want to look at it that way.
> 
> Also apparently Damian is only 12, at least that’s what Superman said. 
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
 I don't think Superman said that as Damian's exact age. Damian met Jon when he's 13 years old, there no way 12 years old Damian become best buddies with Jon. Probably he just made a jab of Damian's height like his son did. Aside from my obvious problem of his suit, the issue is just so sweet. Looking at DCeased Damian who had many person supported him on his side, comparing that to the state Damian is right now, I am glad we have Tom Taylor right now. Even though his snark and his sharp tongue is one of factors that made me like him, glad that he's way calmer in this universe.

Now DC, you've already hinted 2 times to us that Damian already met Pa Kent and Ma Kent, give us the full stories! 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I always think any idea can became a good idea if be well done, I said this before, like Shazam became a success and BatmanxSuperman was terrible, so couples, or crazy decisions is not the real problem, but how it is write. Batman lego movie was amaaaazing, I watched this 3 times in 3 days.
Buuut what I want to ask for you guys.

Anyone thinks Damian has this bad deep complicated personality good heart bad boy appeals? In TT show I feel boys liked Raven more than star fire and Girls liked Robin more than Cyborg or BB (not a really bad boy, but Robin is just deeper, mysterious, cool than others). I don't know how older peoples feel with this type of character.

I know he was terrible in TT, but he is full of appeals. Just cool with all the abilities and cute with "I missed you Grayson, if will tell anyone I kill you" "Robin don't say "hi", ok, "hi" "I care, father", "mom, Whay did you kill me?" . My tought is Damian is disliked by older readers and liked by the new generation.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

And I was re-reading some comics, why Damian had obsession with Slade? I was like Kid Flash when he asked "So all this is because he cuddled your hair?"

----------


## Light of Justice

> I always think any idea can became a good idea if be well done, I said this before, like Shazam became a success and BatmanxSuperman was terrible, so couples, or crazy decisions is not the real problem, but how it is write. Batman lego movie was amaaaazing, I watched this 3 times in 3 days.
> Buuut what I want to ask for you guys.
> 
> Anyone thinks Damian has this bad deep complicated personality good heart bad boy appeals? In TT show I feel boys liked Raven more than star fire and Girls liked Robin more than Cyborg or BB (not a really bad boy, but Robin is just deeper, mysterious, cool than others). I don't know how older peoples feel with this type of character.
> 
> I know he was terrible in TT, but he is full of appeals. Just cool with all the abilities and cute with "I missed you Grayson, if will tell anyone I kill you" "Robin don't say "hi", ok, "hi" "I care, father", "mom, Whay did you kill me?" . My tought is Damian is disliked by older readers and liked by the new generation.


Don't know about that, but indeed younger generation right now prefer deep complicated personality good heart bad boy appeals. I mean, ATLA's fan favorite character is Zuko, Naruto is Sasuke, Inuyasha is Sesshomaru, etc. Like perhaps because they're mostly assholes, when they did something good, fans will feel "aww, he actually has a heart.." something like that. It doesn't have to be younger generation and older generation. I know some younger people who hate Damian with passion, and I also think there's older people who love Damian.

I personally like a character who think highly of himself. Perhaps most person don't like arrogant character, but for me man or woman who has high confidence on themselves are cool and interesting. But I also like when arrogant character have moments of 'self-insecure', hidden from everyone with boast and snark. That's why my favorite man in Marvel is Iron Man, and my favorite in DC is Damian.

----------


## Light of Justice

> And I was re-reading some comics, why Damian had obsession with Slade? I was like Kid Flash when he asked "So all this is because he cuddled your hair?"


For me it's more like Priest's obsession on Damian. But I think Damian has plenty good reason to have a grudge on Slade. Slade with Talia took control of his body, Slade tried to kill Maya, Slade attempted to drown him, Slade attacked Bat-cave, and many more I don't remember all of them. Let's just say that they're not on right term.

I found good analysis comment about Damian's act on Terminum Agenda from think link : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnNrcHmo9V0




> I think what drove Damian to hunt Deathstroke is more than he irritated because Deathstroke ruffle his hair.
> See, Damian bleeds for acceptance. That's his whole character. To impress his mother, to impress his father, to impress Dick, he'll do everything to get a simplest 'good job kid'. So every recognition gesture from other is precious to him. Now comes the 'ruffle' problem. I think he's angry because he LIKES it. Deathstroke gave him a simple affection gesture and he's so starved for that , because Bruce is emotionally constipated, Talia is Talia and Dick is Ric, so he can't bring himself to not like it. And that's disgust him. Especially because Slade was once rumored to be Damian's father and we know how Damian hates the thought of it but little part of him can't help but doubt, maybe he's really Deathstroke's son.
> Damian is 13, he's emotionally unstable. Just like KF said, the 'ruffle' is not the main problem, but it's certainly the trigger. That ruffle made him to feel angry, happy, disgust, shame, sadness, and they were mixed and clashed in his heart. And KF ask, who is Damian angry to? The problem is, Damian doesn't know. Is he angry to his mother, to his father, to himself or to Slade, he himself doesn't know. All he knows that between four of them, Slade is the most punchable , so punch Slade he did. Haha.. Bruce's son..


well, not that I disagree, but this TT run really has a knack to choose wrong trigger for Damian. At first random restaurant, then this...

----------


## king81992

> And I was re-reading some comics, why Damian had obsession with Slade? I was like Kid Flash when he asked "So all this is because he cuddled your hair?"


The real question is why does Slade have an unhealthy obsession with teenagers and why writers try to justify every crime he committed or pretend he did nothing wrong. I've seen people criticize Priest, but he's one of the few writers who didn't pretend Slade was an antihero/ misunderstood.

----------


## ChangingStation

> The real question is why does Slade have an unhealthy obsession with teenagers and why writers try to justify every crime he committed or pretend he did nothing wrong. I've seen people criticize Priest, but he's one of the few writers who didn't pretend Slade was an antihero/ misunderstood.


Because he was originally a villain of the Teen Titans.

----------


## Restingvoice

> The real question is why does Slade have an unhealthy obsession with teenagers and why writers try to justify every crime he committed or pretend he did nothing wrong. I've seen people criticize Priest, but he's one of the few writers who didn't pretend Slade was an antihero/ misunderstood.





> Because he was originally a villain of the Teen Titans.


Yea it's kinda like a tradition. Original NTT, every single incarnation of official TT in comics since, TT cartoon, TT animated movie...

He also has a tradition of not being good with his kids, and with half his kids ended up either dead or became a TT depending on which series/media, sometimes wanting a kid replacement, wanting to be a mentor, or asking someone to mentor them, Slade having a teen problem is forever ^^

----------


## sifighter

Well I saw the images elsewhere in the Superman threads, plus I think it’s one of Damian’s more recent better moments, so here is when Damian becomes DCeased Batman.

Attachment 98207

02A1B10B-13BB-4553-9160-0F8683CB469C.jpg

----------


## Fergus

Rebirth Deathstroke's obsession with Damian had nothing to do with him being a TT's villain.
Slade simply loves Damian because he can access the love he craves and feels [yet doesn't know how to express with his kids] with Damian because he is like Slade. Which I sort of can see.

Priest states that he hints at Damian's parentage all through his run! I didn't get that and I'm glad I didn't. That seems OTT


https://www.cbr.com/damian-wayne-deathstrokes-son/


In an interview with Newsarama, Priest revealed that he hinted at Damian's parentage throughout his run. "'The World's Worst Dad' is about a man who loves and desperately wants to be loved but is capable of neither. So, he does skanky stuff like put a hit out on his daughter so he can spend time with her. And, in the latter part of the series, Deathstroke clearly falls in love with Damian Wayne. I hope fans can understand that, I hope they got that. Deathstroke loves that kid and can access that love in ways he cannot with his own children because Damian is so very much like him."


DC however wasn't thrilled with Damian being a Wilson so Priest did the next best thing. 'Altstroke' The perfect Slade Wilson


http://www.multiversitycomics.com/in...est-interview/

DC feels more like Gene Roddenberrys utopian view of the future, where kindness, forethought, and patience are the rules of the day. How does Deathstroke function in that kind of environment? I mean, I had Slade kill Power Girls dog in issue #17, and that was a major push. So far as I am concerned Slade, not Bruce, is Damian Waynes father. I mean, I get why DC made the call they did, and Damian is not *my* multi-million-dollar I.P. to gamble with, but I lobbied hard for another, in my opinion, more daring choice that would have shaken things up, enraged fans, and launched dozens of exciting stories.


Maybe if Deathstroke was published under their Black Label [imprint] thered be more flex in terms of what the character could be.

This was my real motive for AltStroke. Since we were about to take our bow, I thought Id like to write the character the way he should, in my view, actually be portrayed: as a totally ruthless, unlikeable bitch. And Damian IS his son (Laughs). Now, could AltStroke sustain his own monthly title? I actually think yes in the short term, not in the longer term because eventually hed either kill everybody or kill himself or wed fall into the cliché of constantly contriving reasons he wouldnt.

But at least Deathstroke, as Id have actually liked to have written him, made a brief cameo before we turned out the lights.

https://www.cbr.com/dcs-dark-multive...t-deathstroke/


Instead of being a clone or a copycat of the main Deathstroke, the elder Wilson has been marooned on Earth from the Dark Multiverse. But before he arrived here, he was truly the most ideal killer. After the Dark Slade kills his world's Batman, Damian Wayne and Wonder Woman show up alongside him, basking in the bloody glory. With Damian sipping on a juice box, the issue pays homage to a story that teased the idea that Slade could really have been this Robin's dad.

In this reality, Slade he is Damian's father, and Wonder Woman is his mother. Together, they make up Slade's perfect, deadly family. After Batman's death, the Teen Titans, his traditional rivals, show up, and Slade and his family prove just how deadly they really can be.

this Slade Wilson accomplished more in a few pages than his counterpart has in his entire career. Even though the main Slade had elaborate plans to take down the Titans like the one he used in "The Judas Contract" storyline, he and his family take out the Titans and Batman with a straightforward and practical approach and effective allies a family who get the job done.

The deadly Dark Multiverse trinity of Slade, Diana and Damian accomplish far more than the real Slade ever did with his children Jericho and Ravager. With a demigoddess for a wife and an elite assassin for a son, the Dark Multiverse Deathstroke is living his best life.

----------


## king81992

> Because he was originally a villain of the Teen Titans.


I know that, but I was always bothered by the free pass Slade got from Wolfman. NTT when downhill after he started justifying every bad thing Salde did.

----------


## king81992

> Rebirth Deathstroke's obsession with Damian had nothing to do with him being a TT's villain.
> Slade simply loves Damian because he can access the love he craves and feels [yet doesn't know how to express with his kids] with Damian because he is like Slade. Which I sort of can see.
> 
> Priest states that he hints at Damian's parentage all through his run! I didn't get that and I'm glad I didn't. That seems OTT
> 
> 
> https://www.cbr.com/damian-wayne-deathstrokes-son/
> 
> 
> ...


I appreciate that Priest didn't pretend that Deathstroke was misunderstood or try to justify his crimes like Wolfman and others did, but his ideas regarding Damian and Slade's relationship being father and son are total garbage.

----------


## Fergus

> As a Damian fan I did like Hope at Worlds End#4, and while the story was expected from what we’ve seen already it was nice to have. Besides Damian the rest of the issue focused on the Aerie and Wink from the current Suicide Still run also written by Taylor which I do recommend.
> 
> *spoilers:*
>  I don’t want to ruin it for people but basically it’s the moment where Damian suits up to be the new Batman after a heart to heart with Superman. It’s a relatively sweet moment and Damian comes off as pretty respectful to Bruce even as he still argues about him. It’s probably the best we are going to get for a while of Damian suiting up to be Batman and I guess plays an interesting parallel for when Taylor made Damian Nightwing in Injustice, if you want to look at it that way.
> 
> Also apparently Damian is only 12, at least that’s what Superman said. 
> *end of spoilers*


Tom Taylor really should be on more in canon titles. Give him Superman, Batman or Green Arrow.

Damian and Clark were the standout this issue.
It's been a minute since Superman read like Superman

----------


## Fergus

> I appreciate that Priest didn't pretend that Deathstroke was misunderstood or try to justify his crimes like Wolfman and others did, but his ideas regarding Damian and Slade's relationship being father and son are total garbage.


Not sure why he thought DC would ever go for it but I do get what he means about Slade being like Damian when it comes to expressing their feeling through snarky or roundabount ways.
The panel with Tim and Damian from Robin special is a perfect example. Where Damian is being complimentary, offering advice mixed with snark and insults

[IMG]https://****************.ru/uploads/manga/robin-80th-anniversary-100page-super-spectacular-2020/chapters/1/63.jpg[/IMG]

I enjoyed his run and wouldn't mind seeing more of AltStroke's world.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Don't know about that, but indeed younger generation right now prefer deep complicated personality good heart bad boy appeals. I mean, ATLA's fan favorite character is Zuko, Naruto is Sasuke, Inuyasha is Sesshomaru, etc. Like perhaps because they're mostly assholes, when they did something good, fans will feel "aww, he actually has a heart.." something like that. It doesn't have to be younger generation and older generation. I know some younger people who hate Damian with passion, and I also think there's older people who love Damian.
> 
> I personally like a character who think highly of himself. Perhaps most person don't like arrogant character, but for me man or woman who has high confidence on themselves are cool and interesting. But I also like when arrogant character have moments of 'self-insecure', hidden from everyone with boast and snark. That's why my favorite man in Marvel is Iron Man, and my favorite in DC is Damian.


I disliked Sasuke in all Naruto and didn't like Sesshomaru, now, Zuko, is the example of bad deep complicated personality good heart bad boy easily to fall in love.

I don't know about put all them in just one group, because there is an "egoistic factor" that separete this. Damian, Zuko, maybe Vegeta, have this proud, auto sacrifice, brave heart and a insecurete, they are more needy too. Sasuke and Sessho are more egoistic, strong, help other but not in the same level?
Damian is like "I want to say something nice, but I don't know how because feelings are complicate for someone like me" and Sasuke is like "Meh, just don't wanna to say nothing nice for nobody, whatever".
or
Jason - bad deep complicated deep injured personality explosive good heart bad boy.
Genos - Naive serious complicated good good heart cold boy.

I thought this now because "bad boy" or "serious boy" or "cold boy" are actually not very good classifications? I don't know, it's just because I really disliked Sasuke and Damian is my favorite current character now.

But my original point was >< Damian is a character with appeals, and would be welcomed in any media. I am sad thinking about DC take him out.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> For me it's more like Priest's obsession on Damian. But I think Damian has plenty good reason to have a grudge on Slade. Slade with Talia took control of his body, Slade tried to kill Maya, Slade attempted to drown him, Slade attacked Bat-cave, and many more I don't remember all of them. Let's just say that they're not on right term.
> 
> I found good analysis comment about Damian's act on Terminum Agenda from think link : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnNrcHmo9V0
> 
> 
> 
> well, not that I disagree, but this TT run really has a knack to choose wrong trigger for Damian. At first random restaurant, then this...


This are a good reason, maybe this comment was a little too intensive, but make senses. Match with Damian too.
I asked this because sometimes I have a confuse feeling about how in Hero Comics sometimes a act is unforgiven and others are looks like never happened. This dinamic with Slade x all heroes is like this for me, one time he is almost killing Dick controlling Damian and in the other Batman and Slade are talking with a "complicade dinamic", When Damian and Jason fought I was sure next time they meet would be crazy, but was like nothing happened. (same before with battle for the cowl), and when Damian put the crowbar in Jason's bed....
Sometimes forgiven-notforgiven is very well done, but sometimes is so weird I think "did I miss something?".

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> The real question is why does Slade have an unhealthy obsession with teenagers and why writers try to justify every crime he committed or pretend he did nothing wrong. I've seen people criticize Priest, but he's one of the few writers who didn't pretend Slade was an antihero/ misunderstood.


Thanks this is not just me! 

"why does Slade have an unhealthy obsession with teenagers"

Now every time I see Slade with teenagers I will blink and remembers this...

For me he is clearly a Villain, and maybe somebody that read can disagree, but characters around him couldn't.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Not sure why he thought DC would ever go for it but I do get what he means about Slade being like Damian when it comes to expressing their feeling through snarky or roundabount ways.
> The panel with Tim and Damian from Robin special is a perfect example. Where Damian is being complimentary, offering advice mixed with snark and insults
> 
> [IMG]https://****************.ru/uploads/manga/robin-80th-anniversary-100page-super-spectacular-2020/chapters/1/63.jpg[/IMG]
> 
> I enjoyed his run and wouldn't mind seeing more of AltStroke's world.


I don't see this two being like each other, I can see a tsundere personality in Damian, but not in Slade and Damian's bad decisions are repentance for him, being a monster with peoples minds and lifes are the final objective of slade, no guilty.

I LOVE THIS PAGE.

----------


## king81992

> I disliked Sasuke in all Naruto and didn't like Sesshomaru, now, Zuko, is the example of bad deep complicated personality good heart bad boy easily to fall in love.
> 
> I don't know about put all them in just one group, because there is an "egoistic factor" that separete this. Damian, Zuko, maybe Vegeta, have this proud, auto sacrifice, brave heart and a insecurete, they are more needy too. Sasuke and Sessho are more egoistic, strong, help other but not in the same level?
> Damian is like "I want to say something nice, but I don't know how because feelings are complicate for someone like me" and Sasuke is like "Meh, just don't wanna to say nothing nice for nobody, whatever".
> or
> Jason - bad deep complicated deep injured personality explosive good heart bad boy.
> Genos - Naive serious complicated good good heart cold boy.
> 
> I thought this now because "bad boy" or "serious boy" or "cold boy" are actually not very good classifications? I don't know, it's just because I really disliked Sasuke and Damian is my favorite current character now.
> ...


Sasuke dragged the series down with his nonsense and bad decisions. The fact that Kishimoto kept trying to justify his antics didn't help and he got way to much focus that could've been used to develop the other characters or the setting.

Sesshomaru gradually mellowed(though he was never as bad as Sasuke) out as Inuyasha progressed and it helped that the writer didn't make him the main focus of multiple story arcs during his edgier phases. Sesshomaru actually got more focus late in the series, after he became less of a jerk.

Zuko probably had one of the best redemption arcs in a cartoon and anime I've ever seen, the only thing that compares to his redemption was Ken's storyline in the second season of Digimon.

Damian does suffer consequences when he goes overboard, which makes him a better character than Sasuke, who constantly got excuses to justify his antics. Their archetype is similar, but writers handled them differently.

----------


## Astralabius

> I appreciate that Priest didn't pretend that Deathstroke was misunderstood or try to justify his crimes like Wolfman and others did, but his ideas regarding Damian and Slade's relationship being father and son are total garbage.


My feelings exactly. In my opinion DC made the right call by saying no to him.

----------


## Astralabius

> I still think that he'll appear at the end of Joker War, in 100th issue (it's the late September - the early October, don't remember, need to check). That's the excellent way to set up his new chapter, along with that big direction that Tynion was talking about.
> I think Damian fans will like Deceased At Worlds End #4) It was great.


Tynion said Damian would eventually return to the bat titles, so I wonder if that really means he will show up in the main title first. The last interview Tynion and the current group editor for Batman gave made it sound like all the Batman related titles are supposed to work more closesly now, so at least to me it sounds like bat titles could also mean Detective Comics and not necessarily the main Batman book. Tomasi clearly loves Damian while Tynion is more of a Tim fanboy, so I would be a bit suprised if Tynion was the one who wanted to dedicate time to dealing with the rifts between Bruce and Damian.

----------


## Astralabius

> well, not that I disagree, but this TT run really has a knack to choose wrong trigger for Damian. At first random restaurant, then this...


One of the reasons I really don't want Damian to become an anti-hero after this.
For me motivation has always been one of the most important aspect of an anti-hero and the reasons this run gave Damian for his actions are really bad.
Damian going off the rails because Dick got shot I would have understood, but the restaurant guy that I don't think got mentioned ever again dying? Come on, that's just lazy. Give us something to care about DC.

----------


## Astralabius

> This are a good reason, maybe this comment was a little too intensive, but make senses. Match with Damian too.
> I asked this because sometimes I have a confuse feeling about how in Hero Comics sometimes a act is unforgiven and others are looks like never happened. This dinamic with Slade x all heroes is like this for me, one time he is almost killing Dick controlling Damian and in the other Batman and Slade are talking with a "complicade dinamic", When Damian and Jason fought I was sure next time they meet would be crazy, but was like nothing happened. (same before with battle for the cowl), and when Damian put the crowbar in Jason's bed....
> Sometimes forgiven-notforgiven is very well done, but sometimes is so weird I think "did I miss something?".


It's frustrating, but common. The communication between the bat titles has been really bad for some time. I don't think Lobdell even cared that Glass used Jason as Damian's secret mentor in TT, I don't think it was ever mentioned in Rhato.
The Jason as Damian's mentor plot was weird in general. Not suprised other writers don't want to deal with it.

But as I said, it's not really unusual for characters forgetting that they should be very angry at someone. I mean, Batman is partially responsible for the looming destruction of the multiverse because his mistrust in others caused DC metal, but he didn't get kicked out of the Justice League for that.

Bruce also imprisoned The Batman Who Laughs under the hall of justice without telling anyone and the only thing he had to do to make amends for keeping it secret and failing to keep him imprisoned was making a new data base for all heroes to use.

It's not exactly fair. Actions have consequences when the story needs them to for the plot. In most over cases they are forgotten because the next writer wants to focus on something else and he doesn't have time to resolve the old issues first, so the characters and the story just move on.

----------


## Morgoth

> Tynion said Damian would eventually return to the bat titles, so I wonder if that really means he will show up in the main title first. The last interview Tynion and the current group editor for Batman gave made it sound like all the Batman related titles are supposed to work more closesly now, so at least to me it sounds like bat titles could also mean Detective Comics and not necessarily the main Batman book. Tomasi clearly loves Damian while Tynion is more of a Tim fanboy, so I would be a bit suprised if Tynion was the one who wanted to dedicate time to dealing with the rifts between Bruce and Damian.


Tynion is clearly Tim's fan, but unlike Snyder he's not refusing to use Damian, for example, he used him in TMNT crossover.
Something probably is going on with entire Bat-editor group, because right now Red Hood will get a new writer, Batgirl and Nightwing also will get new authors after Joker War/Death Metal, and Tomasi said, that in January he moves from Detective Comics, but didn't mention, what he's doing next. Regarding characters, they already made it clear, that group wants all Bat-characters under their wing right now. Tim and Stephanie, for example, probably also are going back to Bat-titles, in YJ it seems like that they're leaving and Stephanie already adveristed for Joker War. And we know that Damian is coming back.
It's actually pretty interesting to see, where is it all going.

----------


## dietrich

> I don't see this two being like each other, I can see a tsundere personality in Damian, but not in Slade and Damian's bad decisions are repentance for him, being a monster with peoples minds and lifes are the final objective of slade, no guilty.
> 
> I LOVE THIS PAGE.


Damian isn't a tsundere. Sure he's poor social skills and doesn't allow anyone to see the real him or get close. Behaviour typical of tsunderes but Damian is far more complex not to mention that once we factor in his past.

What's assumed to be natural personality and normal reactions becomes less clear since they could be conditioned behaviour, coping mechanisms and selfcare patterns developed to protect the kid from emotional pain.

damian only ever shares info/details on a need to know bases [Supersons] even with Jon. A character that is close to him-That's conditioned

He uses a ruse to visit Dick rather than just telling him he missed him. He breaks apart at the thought of Dick replacing him. Crys when Dick got shot, Panics when the duo were about to be broken up yet he always acts like a big shot who couldn't care less towards Dick when all is well. Even going so far as to use frankly insulting names like underling once when talking to him. - Selfcare because he doesn't want to show how much he cares because he doesn't think he deserves this free love. Love has value and is conditional in the LOA so he devalues it so Dick can set conditions for it like Talia and Ra's did.

His attitude such as always attempting to prove himself be it by challenging his brothers, coping an attitude with adults and folks that can level him with one flick of a finger -coping mechanisms to deal with his inferiority complex and learned behaviour due to his past in an environment where everything is earned. Position, life and even simple stuff like knowing his father's name. All had to be earned.


Damian is a whole lot more than a tsundere. Though he's also a Wayne so he could just be a tsundere underneath all the layers of stuff.

----------


## dietrich

Damian likely will return in January when the Batfamily new titles kick off.

At best we get some civilian Damian as he atones or gets past his current pov on crime fighting whilst doing regular boy stuff.

As forced as the heel turn was on TT the fact is that Damian made the wrong choice. He took away peoples freedom and trampled on their human rights that isn't okay so he has to face the consequences and I hope we get to see him do so. 

It's not fair on his character for this to be swept away or hand waved. It's will be detrimental to his character [ in story and in the fandom] if this isn't dealt with

----------


## Light of Justice

> I disliked Sasuke in all Naruto and didn't like Sesshomaru, now, Zuko, is the example of bad deep complicated personality good heart bad boy easily to fall in love.
> 
> I don't know about put all them in just one group, because there is an "egoistic factor" that separete this. Damian, Zuko, maybe Vegeta, have this proud, auto sacrifice, brave heart and a insecurete, they are more needy too. Sasuke and Sessho are more egoistic, strong, help other but not in the same level?
> Damian is like "I want to say something nice, but I don't know how because feelings are complicate for someone like me" and Sasuke is like "Meh, just don't wanna to say nothing nice for nobody, whatever".
> or
> Jason - bad deep complicated deep injured personality explosive good heart bad boy.
> Genos - Naive serious complicated good good heart cold boy.
> 
> I thought this now because "bad boy" or "serious boy" or "cold boy" are actually not very good classifications? I don't know, it's just because I really disliked Sasuke and Damian is my favorite current character now.
> ...


Sorry for putting Damian as the same category as Sasuke. I also hate that guy with passion, but I want to make character reference knowable enough for non-anime fans, because I'm such a weeb. Hmm.. perhaps Damian is more similar with Bakugo? They're both arrogant people with verbal abusive tendencies, but competent and responsible (CMIIW I don't know much about Bakugo, I'm more Shinsou fans. Yes I love to torture myself by stanning minor character). Or you can compare him to Iron Man, but remove the happy-go attitude. One thing that makes me interesting is creator of Iron Man (Stan Lee) and creator of Damian (Grant Morrison) were purposely makes their characters unlikable by reader.

Stan Lee's word:
"The readers, the young readers, if there was one thing they hated, it was war, it was the military ... So I got a hero who represented that to the hundredth degree. He was a weapons manufacturer, he was providing weapons for the Army, he was rich, he was an industrialist ... I thought it would be fun to take the kind of character that nobody would like, none of our readers would like, and shove him down their throats and make them like him ... And he became very popular."

Grant Morrison's word :
"Dick Grayson makes a great Batman because he’s been developed over the years as this consummate superhero. He was Batman’s original partner, so he’s been trained by the best. So we kind of knew what he would be like, but to throw Damian into the mix and suddenly have Batman’s evil 10-year-old son as the new Robin really created the dynamic that makes the bit work."
"Batman is dead. Robin is now Batman and Batman's evil son is now Robin."
"There are certain things that seem to make sense at the time like making Damian a little bastard and killing him off…"
"I was quite surprised it worked, because we planned to kill Damian off in the first four issues, and then he seemed too full of potential. . . ."

Not even their creator expect them to become this popular XD XD

----------


## Light of Justice

> Tynion is clearly Tim's fan, but unlike Snyder he's not refusing to use Damian, for example, he used him in TMNT crossover.
> Something probably is going on with entire Bat-editor group, because right now Red Hood will get a new writer, Batgirl and Nightwing also will get new authors after Joker War/Death Metal, and Tomasi said, that in January he moves from Detective Comics, but didn't mention, what he's doing next. Regarding characters, they already made it clear, that group wants all Bat-characters under their wing right now. Tim and Stephanie, for example, probably also are going back to Bat-titles, in YJ it seems like that they're leaving and Stephanie already adveristed for Joker War. And we know that Damian is coming back.
> It's actually pretty interesting to see, where is it all going.


For me, Tynion is one of few writer who loves to write Batfamily interact with each other. So I hope we will see more Batfamily when he takes over Batman

----------


## Light of Justice

> It's frustrating, but common. The communication between the bat titles has been really bad for some time. I don't think Lobdell even cared that Glass used Jason as Damian's secret mentor in TT, I don't think it was ever mentioned in Rhato.
> The Jason as Damian's mentor plot was weird in general. Not suprised other writers don't want to deal with it.
> 
> But as I said, it's not really unusual for characters forgetting that they should be very angry at someone. I mean, Batman is partially responsible for the looming destruction of the multiverse because his mistrust in others caused DC metal, but he didn't get kicked out of the Justice League for that.
> 
> Bruce also imprisoned The Batman Who Laughs under the hall of justice without telling anyone and the only thing he had to do to make amends for keeping it secret and failing to keep him imprisoned was making a new data base for all heroes to use.
> 
> It's not exactly fair. Actions have consequences when the story needs them to for the plot. In most over cases they are forgotten because the next writer wants to focus on something else and he doesn't have time to resolve the old issues first, so the characters and the story just move on.


Inputting Jason on TT as Damian's mentor then makes him fight each other is complete random and unnecessary. Literally served no purpose on the plotline. I'd be happy to ignore it entirely.  




> Bruce also imprisoned The Batman Who Laughs under the hall of justice without telling anyone


This is one of factor that makes me really mad if DC will put all the blame to Damian on upcoming TT annual

----------


## Jackalope89

Sasuke, I was tired of after the Chunin Exams/when he ;eft the Leaf Village. And never understood Sakura's infatuation with him after a certain point (romance was NOT Kishimoto's strong point). 

Zuko, well, that's an antagonist done right. And can't forget his redemption arc. Avatar really had a lot of great characters (makes me all the more excited for the upcoming live action series).

Vegeta was an egocentric a-hole up until the Cell Games. But a number of events, most notably Cell killing Trunks, really (and finally) set him on the right path. With his sacrifice in the Buu Saga, as a last ditch effort to save his family, being the the final part of his redemption.

Damian is kind of in the Vegeta arc, in that he started out psychopathic, but became a better person and paid the ultimate price.

----------


## Astralabius

> This is one of factor that makes me really mad if DC will put all the blame to Damian on upcoming TT annual


So far DC has been reluctant to call out Bruce for neglecting Damian since the events of No Justice. The times characters did mention it where all set after Alfred's death and try to connect these two developements. It seems to me like DC is trying to make it look like Bruce only started his neglect because he has been too caught up in his grief, even though he was already not acting like a father while Alfred was still alive and kicking.

The have also shied away from adressing how messed up Bruce's plan in City of Bane was. Pennyworth RIP criticized parts of it, but not that. That arc would have made for a good reason for Damian to break with Bruce.
He was treated like a tool and had to watch a beloved family member get murdered.

----------


## king81992

> So far DC has been reluctant to call out Bruce for neglecting Damian since the events of No Justice. The times characters did mention it where all set after Alfred's death and try to connect these two developements. It seems to me like DC is trying to make it look like Bruce only started his neglect because he has been too caught up in his grief, even though he was already not acting like a father while Alfred was still alive and kicking.
> 
> The have also shied away from adressing how messed up Bruce's plan in City of Bane was. Pennyworth RIP criticized parts of it, but not that. That arc would have made for a good reason for Damian to break with Bruce.
> He was treated like a tool and had to watch a beloved family member get murdered.


DC seems adverse to calling out Batman in general. His recent treatment of Damian is just one of the many bad things he's done recently. I've been called a hater for saying this, but Batman hasn't been consistently heroic in a long, long time. He's basically the Token Evil Teammate on Justice League and other team books, but writers keep pretending he's right.

----------


## ChangingStation

> DC seems adverse to calling out Batman in general. His recent treatment of Damian is just one of the many bad things he's done recently. I've been called a hater for saying this, but Batman hasn't been consistently heroic in a long, long time. He's basically the Token Evil Teammate on Justice League and other team books, but writers keep pretending he's right.


You're not entirely wrong, there isn't a member of the Batfamily that Bruce hasn't hurt over the years, (save maybe Barbara), with his manipulations, his penchant for lashing out, and his general emotional ineptitude. The worst thing is that he keeps doing it.

----------


## dietrich

The thing about a character like Batman is that he has been around for so long. Well reprsented in all types of media. Every genre and every demographic has some form of Batman themed material to get into. Add to that the vast amount of writers who've written their take on the character what you get is a character with multiple personalites so to speak.

It doesn't help that his character and world is already dark and tainted with issues it's understandable that he just got dark and dark as writers upped the ante to make their stories memorable and interesting to readers who have gradually become used to a darker, more tortured and less heroic Bat.

DC sells batman as a hero, fans view him as a hero even when he is not. It's one of those things that become a thing where no one points out the fallacy.

Same with Batdad. Bruce has a family because it's a great concept and they are popular but DC has no intention of having him actually do Dad things so they won't call him out for neglect or anything like that because his kids are Robins.

Their  role is to help fight crime when needed, Spin off to sell books and drive his plot when needed.
They were created for batman not Bruce Wayne. No matter how badly he treats them he can't be shown to be completely in the wrong or the bad guy. Batman is supposed to be a hero. DC's most valued hero at that so it's important that we still root for him/view him with some positive. Even when he's shitty the story and characters can't  just call him shitty and leave it at that. They  can call him shitty but reflect on how his shittiness isn't entirely his fault, forgive him or reveal why his shittiness was actual the best thing that saved the day. Whatever the point is the reader should be left with enough to still like Batman or at the very least understand/justify/normalise his actions so readers don't end up hating him.

The original Huntress Helena was the only Batkid that was created for Bruce Wayne's character not Batman. She was Bruce's kid who wasn't created primarily for sidekick purposes.

She later became a crime fighter but that was after we saw Bruce raise  her and just be a dad.

In the main DC verse DC has no interest in Batman being a dad not to mention that they needed Bruce to not have eyes on Damian so the TT plot can happen.

It's double standards and it sucks for fans of the batfamily every time they are used and abused for plot and get no resolution or even a single line of follow up dialogue addressing their treatment/injuries.

It sucks but DC is a business and Batman is a juggernut so while I don't like it I get it.

I've learnt to lower my expectations.

----------


## dietrich

> So far DC has been reluctant to call out Bruce for neglecting Damian since the events of No Justice. The times characters did mention it where all set after Alfred's death and try to connect these two developements. It seems to me like DC is trying to make it look like Bruce only started his neglect because he has been too caught up in his grief, even though he was already not acting like a father while Alfred was still alive and kicking.
> 
> The have also shied away from adressing how messed up Bruce's plan in City of Bane was. Pennyworth RIP criticized parts of it, but not that. That arc would have made for a good reason for Damian to break with Bruce.
> He was treated like a tool and had to watch a beloved family member get murdered.



I understand the anger, disappointment and upset this forced heel turn dregs up. 

The clumsy and not at all subtle giving a dog all the bad name's they can to justify why is must be hanged. One bad decision#rule breaking should be enough but they went with multiple just to ensure that it's idiot proof.

however I'm glad it wasn't due to City of Bane.
Not fair on king and Damian. It has to be down as a fallout for Damian's actions in his title not as a fallout from a Batman story.

That would make king a target for angry fans and it's disrespectful to Damian. Bad as Glass it it's Damian's story and his decisions. I don't want him getting grounded because he was following orders.

I don't want the Poor Robin get grounded due to no fault of his own. Aww isn't it the worst. The Robin who is only trying his best to help then being unfairly treated because he was good and a Wayne was shit!

Hell No.

That is Tim Drake's bag and not Damian's. 
The pity me thing isn't a good look and it's bad for fandom. It creates resentment, degrades the character by making them a powerless victim without a voice or choice. I don't want damian to become the damsel done wrong.

He behaved badly and this is the consequence. He takes it like a big boy and returns when he's ready. That's more interesting and ensures no pity party. That shit sticks and it's damaging. Woobifying the character.

Besides aside from the fact that King still works alongside these bat writers so it would be rude if they keep taking shots at his run. They already called him on his vacation [which I felt was uncalled for] and Alfred. The TT plot and the bad behaviour on that title started way before City of Bane so that would still remain.

all Robin's get fired at least damian will return. dc isn't about to change him as the official robin especially with AT&T going for the whole brand synergy.

Damian even if he wasn't so well established with a high profile in outside media he is also the most attractive candidate for the role from a business pov.

His lore and skill is less problematic
he is also the most versatile. You can do the generic Batman and Robin duo with him and bruce that's always been done. You can also do stories that can't be done with others.

at this point I don't even care if he gets all the blame. damian has done bad things before and he has gotten blamed for stuff and he moved past it. I'm just need this whole arc done so i can start looking forward to damian stories again.

I picked up the last 2 issues of TT but haven't opened either once. I just don't feel like reading the title. I know it's just gonna pissed me off so why bother.

----------


## Astralabius

> I understand the anger, disappointment and upset this forced heel turn dregs up. 
> 
> The clumsy and not at all subtle giving a dog all the bad name's they can to justify why is must be hanged. One bad decision#rule breaking should be enough but they went with multiple just to ensure that it's idiot proof.
> 
> however I'm glad it wasn't due to City of Bane.
> Not fair on king and Damian. It has to be down as a fallout for Damian's actions in his title not as a fallout from a Batman story.
> 
> That would make king a target for angry fans and it's disrespectful to Damian. Bad as Glass it it's Damian's story and his decisions. I don't want him getting grounded because he was following orders.
> 
> ...


Not sure how you got to this post from my post in all places, but whatever. I was talking about events that could have lead to a better story of Damian breaking with Bruce, I wasn't talking about using City of Bane to explain Damian's actions retroactively. Even though DC actually seems to do this exact thing with justifying Bruce's neglect in typical DC fashion.

I'm already mad at King and City of Bane, the arc and Bruce's plan were terrible, and the decision to make Damian go bad would still have been on DC and the execution on Glass or whatever writer would have had to deal with it. This is about giving Damian's behaviour an inciting incident that makes sense to get mad at Bruce. Bruce utterly failed the city and his family in King's run, and that is without making it the inciting incident for Damian's turn. So using it as the reason wouldn't have changed much about how readers would have perceived King's run anyway. The anger about City of Bane is already there. The anger at Bruce is already there. And the anger about DC not adressing these issues is there too.

I don't know how to feel about Damian getting punished for this. He's 13, has mental problems and his father left him utterly alone with all of it. But the way the US treats children who committed crimes is sick anyway, so I guess there is a difference between cultures as well.
Damian needs serious help, not punishment. And taking Damian's perspective is what Damian's main book should do. I get enough books that try to justify Bruce's perspective, I don't need Damian's book to do the same. That doesn't mean it can't criticize Damian's actions, but it should at least make Damian's actions and feelings seem reasonable and this book has failed to do so. Damian's critique of Batman feels shallow and is constantly proven wrong. Sorry, but if DC isn't willing to tell a Batman vs Robin story well by giving both sides good reasons then it shouldn't exist at all.
The way this entire story is build I feel zero sympathy for Damian. I don't understand why he did things he has done and that is largely because the inciting incident of this story doesn't work.

I don't think either of us will change their minds on this, but I really see no reason for why I shouldn't be allowed to think that Bruce, the person who was supposed to raise Damian and watch over him every day because Damian is a minor with serious problems, should be blamed for this. If there is one character in the DC universe who doesn't deserve sympathy for getting criticized by fans it's Batman. Even if he gets put down, he will still remain DC's cashcow.
Damian is already hated by enough fans. Giving him a story of him going bad with probably the worst written motivation I have seen in years does not help. People just started getting around to him, with this run he seems to go back to square one and I can't even explain why.

----------


## Morgoth

Thompson is likely to make both Bruce and Damian admit that they themselves are to blame for their actions. And Alfred’s death here will be a key factor, they both admit that without him they don’t know what to do and how to do the right thing, because he was a moral compass for both.
In any case, I do not think that this will be something one-sided. A parallel has already been drawn between them, they feel the same now.

----------


## Astralabius

> Thompson is likely to make both Bruce and Damian admit that they themselves are to blame for their actions. And Alfred’s death here will be a key factor, they both admit that without him they don’t know what to do and how to do the right thing, because he was a moral compass for both.
> In any case, I do not think that this will be something one-sided. A parallel has already been drawn between them, they feel the same now.


Don't know how I should feel about using Alfred for this to be honest. Alfred has never been as much guidance for Damian as he has been for Bruce and the one time Alfred previously showed up in this storyline he did the opposite of being helpful.
Thompson tries very hard to make Bruce and Damian the same even though they aren't. They are similar, not the same. But that's a different issue.

And even then the problem remains that Glass is listed as the main writer for the annual. My only hope is that the changes that must have been done after DC adjusted their plans were done by Thompson instead of Glass and DC simpy didn't bother to update the solicitation for the annual like they did with Teen Titans #42.
Maybe Thompson will do a better job with Damian, after reading 42 I would actually be disappointed if Damian was revealed as the killer, why give us the answer on the cover and then still pretend it's a mystey? But if the majority of the annual is still written by Glass none of this is likely to matter anyway.
Thompson didn't mind immediately changing things about the story the minute he was alone on the title and I wouldn't be suprised if Glass would do the same with the annual. So Thompson's efforts to make the conflict seem a bit more fair could be for nothing.

----------


## Morgoth

Annual probably has been rewritten. There's too many changes with schedule. I'm not sure, of course, but it seems like.
Glass, by the way, said that he wasn't going to completely destroy Damian character, by the fact, he called him "future Batman", so, I think, it won't be as hard, as many think.

----------


## Astralabius

> Annual probably has been rewritten. There's too many changes with schedule. I'm not sure, of course, but it seems like.
> Glass, by the way, said that he wasn't going to completely destroy Damian character, by the fact, he called him "future Batman", so, I think, it won't be as hard, as many think.


He said Damian "needed to be pushed to his destruction to be reborn", a statement I disagree with. There was no need to destroy him. I don't get DC's obsession with destroying their heroes anyway. How many consecutive Batman runs have tried to "break Batman" now? That's part of the reason Bruce isn't a hero anymore in my eyes. Too much deconstruction, not enough reconstruction.

I don't see the point of talking about who would be the best Batman in the future. DC will always return to Bruce in the main universe. That discussion is kinda pointless and so is letting Damian's direction be guided by that question. Unless Damian gets aged up we won't see him as an adult in the main universe and those things usually don't go over well with fans. I wish people would stop thinking about Damian's future and start thinking about him in the present.

Also, the reason I worry about the annual is really more the lack of nuance in Glass' writing when it comes to Damian at this point. What exactly happens with Damian afterwards is in the hands of the bat office from what I read.

----------


## king81992

> Annual probably has been rewritten. There's too many changes with schedule. I'm not sure, of course, but it seems like.
> Glass, by the way, said that he wasn't going to completely destroy Damian character, by the fact, he called him "future Batman", so, I think, it won't be as hard, as many think.


 "Future Batman" is not a good thing, especially if writers don't learn from the flaws of current Batman.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> The have also shied away from adressing how messed up Bruce's plan in City of Bane was. Pennyworth RIP criticized parts of it, but not that. That arc would have made for a good reason for Damian to break with Bruce.
> He was treated like a tool and had to watch a beloved family member get murdered.


I don't see Damian thinking he was used like a tool for Bruce. For me Damian thinks all the guilty is of him and he was failed totally for him own mistake. Since he still has a soldier thinking it was his mission, he didn't talkback when Todd blame him or was angry for no one else trying help.

----------


## Light of Justice

Batman: Gotham Nights #12
*Every current and former Robin has been captured by a mysterious villain! Will these distinctly different students of Batman be able to stand each other long enough to fight off a horde of their greatest enemies?*

Damian will be featured on Batman: Gotham Nights #12 next week. With Tim on his Drake costume and maybe Drake codename. There's no way Damian will let go of the chance to roast the heck out of Tim for his choice of costume and codename, like Steph did.
Speaking about costume, didn't Jason use that costume on when Damian confront him? I wonder, this issue will be placed before their fight or after their fight?

*"Will these distinctly different students of Batman be able to stand each other long enough"*
Oh boy.

----------


## Blue22

Oh my God. Do my eyes deceive me!? A Robin story that includes Steph!? That's almost more exciting than seeing Dick and Damian in the same book again!

----------


## Astralabius

> I don't see Damian thinking he was used like a tool for Bruce. For me Damian thinks all the guilty is of him and he was failed totally for him own mistake. Since he still has a soldier thinking it was his mission, he didn't talkback when Todd blame him or was angry for no one else trying help.


I'm not talking about how this was handled in Pennyworth RIP. I was talking about what would have made for better starting points for Damian breaking away from Bruce than the restaurant owner getting killed. I already explained this.

Bruce's entire plan in city of Bane was dumb and Bruce turned out to be wrong, especially with the parts his family was involved in. Alfred was there even though Bruce said he wouldn't be there. Bruce knows that is because Alfred lied, but Damian doesn't know that. Bruce thought the family would be stong enough to take on Thomas. They got beaten and brainwashed instead. The city distrusts Batman after Batman let them get ruled by Bane for months.
If DC wants a story about Robin doubting Batman's methods and feeling angry at him they could have waited for an story opportunity like this instead of pulling it out of their ass as they did with the current Teen Titans book.

----------


## Eckri

> Batman: Gotham Nights #12
> *Every current and former Robin has been captured by a mysterious villain! Will these distinctly different students of Batman be able to stand each other long enough to fight off a horde of their greatest enemies?*
> 
> Damian will be featured on Batman: Gotham Nights #12 next week. With Tim on his Drake costume and maybe Drake codename. There's no way Damian will let go of the chance to roast the heck out of Tim for his choice of costume and codename, like Steph did.
> Speaking about costume, didn't Jason use that costume on when Damian confront him? I wonder, this issue will be placed before their fight or after their fight?
> 
> *"Will these distinctly different students of Batman be able to stand each other long enough"*
> Oh boy.


Did Damian and Steph ever interacted in the New 52?
Plus, Damian should definitely call Steph fat in the issue.

----------


## Zaresh

> Oh my God. Do my eyes deceive me!? A Robin story that includes Steph!? That's almost more exciting than seeing Dick and Damian in the same book again!


I'm suspecting they're not exactly in continuity though. I mean, it's not only calling Steph a Robin in the prewview, it's calling Jason a mercenary too, which he isn't. He's a free agent, but that doesn't mean he's a soldier for hire. A pitty, to be honest. Maybe none of these digital first are mean to be in cont: they're mean to catch new readers, so being loosey with continuty helps.  Edit: I mean, they *aren't* mean to. Slipped my finger there.

----------


## Digifiend

It would have to be after Joker War if it was in continuity, as Young Justice hadn't started yet when Dick was shot and therefore, obviously, Tim wasn't Drake yet. Steph's Robin tenure IS currently canon by the way, it's only her Batgirl stint that apparently isn't.

It SHOULD be in continuity though, unlike The Flash's Giant/Digital First series (which can't be because of Iris being black like on TV), because one of the previous Giant stories (reprinted as Batman Universe) was the debut of Young Justice member Jinny Hex.

----------


## Light of Justice

> It would have to be after Joker War if it was in continuity, as Young Justice hadn't started yet when Dick was shot and therefore, obviously, Tim wasn't Drake yet. Steph's Robin tenure IS currently canon by the way, it's only her Batgirl stint that apparently isn't.
> 
> It SHOULD be in continuity though, unlike The Flash's Giant/Digital First series (which can't be because of Iris being black like on TV), because one of the previous Giant stories (reprinted as Batman Universe) was the debut of Young Justice member Jinny Hex.


But Damian is still Robin, and from Tynion's statement Joker War probably will be happened after TT annual 2.  I don't think it's in continuity. Damian's fate after TT annual 2 is one of fans's biggest mystery right now, there's no way DC will announce Damian's status as still Robin on 99-cent issue.

----------


## Morgoth

It's just out of continuity.
Or they drastically changed their plans, but that's highly unlikely.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I'm not talking about how this was handled in Pennyworth RIP. I was talking about what would have made for better starting points for Damian breaking away from Bruce than the restaurant owner getting killed. I already explained this.
> 
> Bruce's entire plan in city of Bane was dumb and Bruce turned out to be wrong, especially with the parts his family was involved in. Alfred was there even though Bruce said he wouldn't be there. Bruce knows that is because Alfred lied, but Damian doesn't know that. Bruce thought the family would be stong enough to take on Thomas. They got beaten and brainwashed instead. The city distrusts Batman after Batman let them get ruled by Bane for months.
> If DC wants a story about Robin doubting Batman's methods and feeling angry at him they could have waited for an story opportunity like this instead of pulling it out of their ass as they did with the current Teen Titans book.


Wait, did Bruce knows Alfred was still there? Are you share? And Damian don't know about this?

I know by the point of view of readers this is a good reason for Damian break up with Bruce, but inside comics the other characters don't know, for example, Bruce was doing couple yoga in beach, I read this batman issue after know about Alfred's death (I don't read Batman comics frequently) and I listened Bruce was out because he "needed to rest" I immediately tought he was so injured that he was not capable for walking. And I think it must be the what characters inside comics understand.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Why is superman alive in DCeased: Hope At World's End? Part of what happened in DCeased in 2019 was rebooted?

----------


## sifighter

> Why is superman alive in DCeased: Hope At World's End? Part of what happened in DCeased in 2019 was rebooted?


Its set during the weeks long gaps that they skipped over during either issue 4 & 5, when they start building the arks, take down the internet, and establish refuge sites. So this happens before he gets infected and before Damian dons the batsuit.

----------


## Digifiend

> It's just out of continuity.
> Or they drastically changed their plans, but that's highly unlikely.


Actually, we know they DID drastically change their plans, as 5G is no longer happening.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Actually, we know they DID drastically change their plans, as 5G is no longer happening.


Thankfully.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the "next gen up" kind of thing, but not the way that 5G was doing it. Now I'm hoping a number of things done in "preparation" of 5G are undone going forward.

----------


## sifighter

EcMFLwmU8AABGSD.jpg

According to Taylor this will be Damian's first adventure as Batman. It definitely looks a lot better then the one from the Harley Quinn show. :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Rac7d*

> Attachment 98424
> 
> According to Taylor this will be Damian's first adventure as Batman. It definitely looks a lot better then the one from the Harley Quinn show.


Yes this looks good

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Attachment 98424
> 
> According to Taylor this will be Damian's first adventure as Batman. It definitely looks a lot better then the one from the Harley Quinn show.


OMG! So cute! SuperBat(boy). I am already excited by fanarts and fanfics coming.

 Damian as Batman in annual 1. Wasn't the first? I know many peoples deslike this no fashion outfit, but I enjoy thinking Damian likes this.

----------


## Rac7d*

If raven gets a live action movie Damian could find life their

----------


## Fergus

> Did Damian and Steph ever interacted in the New 52?
> Plus, Damian should definitely call Steph fat in the issue.


No I don't believe they did.
Shame I enjoyed their Dynamic.

Nice to see Steph acknowledged.
Where's Jarro?

----------


## Tsukiakari1203

I miss Stephanie and Damian's relationship. She was definitely an older-sister figure to him. She also treated him like a kid. That issue where he and Steph team up in Batgirl was my first exposure to Damian and it made me love him for the snotty little brat he is.

----------


## Tsukiakari1203

> If raven gets a live action movie Damian could find life their


Uhhh, why? Raven is Dick's generation not Damian's. I'd rather see and Dickbats and Damian movie

----------


## Restingvoice

> Uhhh, why? Raven is Dick's generation not Damian's. I'd rather see and Dickbats and Damian movie


Following the animated universe, but I don't think they will since that one is finishing off and every media tend to have their own continuity

----------


## Morgoth

There was rumor that Keaton's (or Bale's) Batman will be Batgirl's mentor in her future movie. Maybe they will introduce Damian there, since Dick, Jason in Titans TV-show, and Tim is going to appear there.
But, I won't be suprrised, if they will put him in Raven movie (if that's true and it's really in development). They probably will want some familiar face in the movie. And they can use Robin there, to set up Teen Titans movie in the future. I'm not sure, but they definitely can do that.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> There was rumor that Keaton's (or Bale's) Batman will be Batgirl's mentor in her future movie. Maybe they will introduce Damian there, since Dick, Jason in Titans TV-show, and Tim is going to appear there.
> But, I won't be suprrised, if they will put him in Raven movie (if that's true and it's really in development). They probably will want some familiar face in the movie. And they can use Robin there, to set up Teen Titans movie in the future. I'm not sure, but they definitely can do that.


Where everybody see this notices? (not being in TWT accounts).

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Just to be share.

1 - Bruce Wayne knew Bane was still with Alfred when he sent Damian for Gotham?
2 - If he knew, Damian knows he knew?

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Following the animated universe, but I don't think they will since that one is finishing off and every media tend to have their own continuity


I don't watch TITANS of Netflix, but ther Raven and BB have a thing, right?

----------


## Rac7d*

> Uhhh, why? Raven is Dick's generation not Damian's. I'd rather see and Dickbats and Damian movie


Because dick is dead, she hasn’t Ben dick generation for 15 years and thease animated films are always like test pilots

----------


## Rac7d*

> I don't watch TITANS of Netflix, but ther Raven and BB have a thing, right?


The actress playing raven was casted at 13 while beastboy was 26 they won’t have any romance for a while.

----------


## Tsukiakari1203

> The actress playing raven was casted at 13 while beastboy was 26 they won’t have any romance for a while.


They do seem to be setting it up though

----------


## Rac7d*

> They do seem to be setting it up though


The show won’t last long enough for it to be okay, and when they get to a terra storyline. I would not count on it

----------


## Jackalope89

> They do seem to be setting it up though


While hinted at, that's as far as they can go with it. 

If anything, it will be Gar and Terra (should they get to that point), and Dick and Kori going forward. With some older brother Dick and younger sister Rachel thrown in.

----------


## Rac7d*

> While hinted at, that's as far as they can go with it. 
> 
> If anything, it will be Gar and Terra (should they get to that point), and Dick and Kori going forward. With some older brother Dick and younger sister Rachel thrown in.


I think titans might get canceled at the rate dcuniverse is going, plus babs is going to be in season 3

----------


## Jackalope89

> I think titans might get canceled at the rate dcuniverse is going, plus babs is going to be in season 3


That, or moved to HBOMax. As for Young Justice, either Netflix or HBOMax for that one, considering it was the most streamed series for a good while.

----------


## king81992

> The show wont last long enough for it to be okay, and when they get to a terra storyline. I would not count on it


Terra is more likely to appear in Black Lightning in the upcoming season than Titans.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Terra is more likely to appear in Black Lightning in the upcoming season than Titans.


They created their original version of her brother brion 
They will do the same for terra if she does show up 

Terra and a proper Judas contract plot will happen

----------


## king81992

> They created their original version of her brother brion 
> They will do the same for terra if she does show up 
> 
> Terra and a proper Judas contract plot will happen


I kind of expect the real Brion to show up eventually, considering that Brandon's whole plot line is about finding his father and the Markovia plot line isn't quite finished yet.

Either way, I expect Terra to appear in Black Lightning before Titans.

----------


## Rac7d*

> I kind of expect the real Brion to show up eventually, considering that Brandon's whole plot line is about finding his father and the Markovia plot line isn't quite finished yet.
> 
> Either way, I expect Terra to appear in Black Lightning before Titans.


Why ? What makes this brion not the real brion???? It’s not like geoforce is some big A lister.

----------


## Ansa

> Just to be share.
> 
> 1 - Bruce Wayne knew Bane was still with Alfred when he sent Damian for Gotham?
> 2 - If he knew, Damian knows he knew?


Are you talking about City if Bane?

1. Bruce got a signal from Alfred that made him think Alfred got away from Bane in Batman 79. Bruce didn't know Alfred lied and planned to let himself get killed by Bane to allow Bruce to take back Gotham. Don't ask me why Alfred suddenly didn't have enough faith in Bruce to save him, it's King's Batman, not a lot of things made sense when you thought about it for a few seconds.
Bruce sent Damian to Gotham afterwards, leading to the events seen in 77.
The reason he sent Damian was because after Alfred was gone Bane would need a new hostage to keep the family out and Damian was supposed to play that new hostage, let the others into the house and defeat Bane together.

Why Alfred himself couldn't have let the the bat-family into the manor, perhaps with the help of Clayface who was also working for Bruce in City of Bane, to avoid Alfred having to free himself and risking Damian's life later is beyond me.

That's simply Bruce's crappy plan as he explains it in Batman 81.

2. Tom King never bothered to explain much, least of all for characters he didn't care about, so what Damian knew or felt was never explored.

----------


## Morgoth

It's just King's shitty writing. As well as the intervention of DiDio, who urgently needed to kill Alfred in order to bring his shitty idea with the new Batman in 5G. That's it. 
They're going to fix this mess anyway, I think.

----------


## Ansa

> It's just King's shitty writing. As well as the intervention of DiDio, who urgently needed to kill Alfred in order to bring his shitty idea with the new Batman in 5G. That's it. 
> They're going to fix this mess anyway, I think.


Yeah, Alfred will be back eventually, I'm not worried about that.

But everytime someone brings up City of Bane I remember just how bad Bruce's plan really was. While the book acted like it was genius. Kinda felt like King was insulting our intelligence.

----------


## Ansa

DCeased: Dead Planet was very good, the banter between Jon and Damian was really enjoyable. Curious to see where this goes.

----------


## sifighter

> DCeased: Dead Planet was very good, the banter between Jon and Damian was really enjoyable. Curious to see where this goes.


Yeah I thought the issue was really good, though it left me with a lot of thoughts and questions that I now need answered...cant wait for the next issue.

----------


## Light of Justice

Since there's already people who commented about Dead Planet, I will comment about Batman : Gotham Night #12
IT'S AMAZING. I know that we can count on you, Seeley..
Below is huge spoiler! I have no self-restraint so please forgive me and don't read my spoiler if you haven't read Batman : Gotham Night #12...

*spoilers:*
I knew that he's weirdly calmer on preview! There's no way Damian accepts to be called 'good little protege' without any fight!
'That unique mix of private school priss and world-conquering villain' PPFFTT!!! If the 'world-conquering villain' part is from Talia's genes, then 'private school priss' part is from Bruce's genes XDDDD
"TT" God suddenly I realized that I miss that catchphrases. And realized that in TT, he rarely use the 'TT', which is another disappointing thing of that book. Pun not intended.
'Being a Robin means being there for everyone who needs you' I love when writer shows this side of Damian instead of only obsessing over beating criminals. 
Only Dick Grayson who can ruffle Damian's hair without getting hunted and maimed. And maybe Jon Kent. Deathstroke is the prime example of that rules.
'Here, *Red Robin* " Gosh DAMIAN I LOVE YOU! SEELEY I LOVE YOU! I thought that he will make a jab on Drake's name, but instead he refused to use it entirely!!! XD XD 
And that 'Pathetic Hangers-On!' XD XD XD Well at least Karlo get one aspect right about him 
*end of spoilers*

In short, reading Batman : Gotham Night makes me remember why I love Damian Wayne. My only complain is *spoilers:*
 he's not included on that 'power ranger style' pose, but I don't think he wil agree to do that even if he's already there. Also about him and Dick literally never agree about anything before. They're canonly agree on many things before, after all they were once Second Generation of Dynamic Duo.
*end of spoilers*
But after all, it's an enjoyable read. Not many writer can write story of Damian that makes me think 'wow that's my Damian!'. Seeley I beg you, please write more Damian in the future...

----------


## Ansa

Yeah, Gotham Nights was great too.

At first I was a bit confused about how Damian was written, but by the end it all made sense.
I love it when that kind of stuff is intentional and not just the writer not knowing what he's doing.

----------


## Digifiend

> That, or moved to HBOMax. As for Young Justice, either Netflix or HBOMax for that one, considering it was the most streamed series for a good while.


Yeah, DC Universe being axed or made comics only won't cause the shows' demise. Maybe YJ could be simulcast on HBOMax and CW Seed? Seed is known for hosting DC cartoons, they had Vixen, The Ray (both set in the Arrowverse) and Deathstroke.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Yeah, DC Universe being axed or made comics only won't cause the shows' demise. Maybe YJ could be simulcast on HBOMax and CW Seed? Seed is known for hosting DC cartoons, they had Vixen, The Ray (both set in the Arrowverse) and Deathstroke.


The ray is on hbomax now

----------


## dietrich

Dead Planet was great [it is Tom Taylor afterall]

Can't wait to see more of this JL. One big disappointment is that Wallace is nowhere to be seen. I hope he turns up in the next issue.

Didn't think the death would start right at the start.

Loved how Jon and Damian were Batman and Superman yet still Damian and Jon.

Tom Taylor needs to write a Damian or Supersons book

----------


## dietrich

I hope DC hears and heeds all the calls for a Deceased animated series/movie

----------


## Jackalope89

> Dead Planet was great [it is Tom Taylor afterall]
> 
> Can't wait to see more of this JL. One big disappointment is that Wallace is nowhere to be seen. I hope he turns up in the next issue.
> 
> Didn't think the death would start right at the start.
> 
> Loved how Jon and Damian were Batman and Superman yet still Damian and Jon.
> 
> Tom Taylor needs to write a Damian or Supersons book


I would really like to see Taylor work on Supersons or something else, in a more light-hearted story. Because in this, and even during Injustice at times, his characterizations were awesome.

----------


## Blue22

Having Taylor work on Super Sons or anything relating to Damian and/or Jon in the main universe would be a dream come true. At this point, I'm confident he'd even find a way to make this ruined version of Jon seem okay.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Having Taylor work on Super Sons or anything relating to Damian and/or Jon in the main universe would be a dream come true. At this point, I'm confident he'd even find a way to make this ruined version of Jon seem okay.


I asked the Superman family thread and apparently Bendis let enough of a gap that it's possible that this aged up Jon Kent is someone from an alternate future while the real Jon is still out there in space. 

Bendis fully expects someone will reset his story once he leaves. That's his attitude in writing which explains why he feels comfortable wrecking the previous playground and that someone will wreck his playground one day.

----------


## Morgoth

I don’t know about Taylor, but I read a couple of weeks ago that Tomasi leaves Detective Comics in January and goes on to some other title, which he didn’t call, as “he has no right to do it before the announcement,” something like that. Of course it's clear that this title can be anything, but given that he is still in the Bat-editor group, and Damian is returning to them, it seems possible that he will be allowed to write Damian in a new role after he'll leave Robin mantle. This, in principle, is a logical move, because he worked on him most of all after Morrison, and this is the new stage for character.
Not sure how it will be with the Super Sons, because Bendis probably will stay at least until spring.

----------


## CPSparkles

Dead Planet and Gotham Nights were both fun reads.

I'd be down for a Taylor Damian or Supersons book or Tomasi doing a Damian title. Both are highly unlikely I know. A writer doesn't go from Superman to Batman to a sidekick or from writing one of the best selling titles last year to a sidekick but I can dream.

----------


## Restingvoice

I've gotten used to Hot Damian thanks to Batman Beyond. He's gonna grow up looking like his dad so Hot Damian is to be expected.

tumblr_573bec3c77a05e2cf9b6c9f258a79aeb_c236f115_2048.jpg

I'm not used to Idol Damian

by Niahti on Tumblr

----------


## CPSparkles

Damian and Titus



https://twitter.com/0Y_00l







https://twitter.com/shayinaiye

----------


## CPSparkles

> I've gotten used to Hot Damian thanks to Batman Beyond. He's gonna grow up looking like his dad so Hot Damian is to be expected.
> 
> tumblr_573bec3c77a05e2cf9b6c9f258a79aeb_c236f115_2048.jpg
> 
> I'm not used to Idol Damian
> 
> by Niahti on Tumblr


I like this.

----------


## CPSparkles

> I would really like to see Taylor work on Supersons or something else, in a more light-hearted story. Because in this, and even during Injustice at times, his characterizations were awesome.


I find it interesting that this is the 2nd Tom Taylor event that Damian and Jason are the bat sons left

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/Xiaoer19



https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f3a8.svg

----------


## CPSparkles

Son of Batman



https://twitter.com/marktsneed

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/OtterTheAuthor







https://twitter.com/kamiodsk

----------


## CPSparkles

More Supersons






https://twitter.com/ttt12349



https://twitter.com/langbuliang

----------


## Jackalope89

This thread needs more Damian-zoo.

----------


## CPSparkles

> This thread needs more Damian-zoo.


I want to see the fight between Damian and the Lion.

----------


## CPSparkles

Batman Legacy by Alex Ross

----------


## CPSparkles

Damian's Zoo



https://twitter.com/redrobining

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/gothamtwinks




https://twitter.com/WonderCatKir

----------


## Morgoth

Damian featured on Joker War finale poster. And he still wears Robin's outfit.

----------


## Astralabius

> Damian featured on Joker War finale poster. And he still wears Robin's outfit.


Yeah, but Tim is wearing his old costume instead of the Drake costume too.
Special issues like Batman #100 tend to have special covers that don't necessarily reflect what's inside.

----------


## Katana500

I think Tynion said on Twitter that the cover is a celebration of all 100 issues and that not everyone on the cover would be featured. 

He also said there is big plans for Damian in the batbooks in 2021, I think Gotham may be entering a brand new status quo which may be interesting for many characters including Damian.

----------


## Astralabius

Preview for Teen Titans 43:
https://aiptcomics.com/2020/07/10/te...iew-dc-comics/

----------


## sifighter

> Preview for Teen Titans 43:
> https://aiptcomics.com/2020/07/10/te...iew-dc-comics/


See I actually like the idea of Jon taking time to visit Damian when he’s not at his best with the loss of Alfred, I like the strong friendship between them and it’s nice to see Jon worry for his friend. I also like how the artist did this because Damian doesn’t look to young to Jon, because Damian should be 14 or 15(his 13th was in Rebirth and it’s been some time since then) and since Jon was 10, I imagine he’s like 16 or 17 not too far away from Damian. Personally I’ve always felt that if they want to keep Jon in his teens just don’t specifically call out how old and age up
Damian just a little to make it match.

----------


## Astralabius

Jon being there suprised me a bit, but aside from that I felt bored reading this.
Thompson is repeating himself with Damian's monologues.

----------


## Morgoth

"To prove a point".
I really hope all of that is just misleading.

----------


## Astralabius

> "To prove a point".
> I really hope all of that is just misleading.


So far the book has refused to outright admit that Damian killed Brother Blood even though the first cover hinted heavily that Damian is the killer, which following comic logic should mean he didn't do it.
But if this is the one time a comic cover is absolutely honest I'm gonna be disappointed. Throwing Damian's entire character developement since 2006 away for a story as badly written and poorly selling as this one is just dumb.

----------


## Blue22

This whole arc with Damian and these Titans has been one seriously painfully dragged out (albeit well written at times) rollercoaster that I'm just ready to end. Adding fake Jon into the mix, quoting fucking Stephen Hawking to highlight how not Jon he is, doesn't help matters either. Because I'm pretty sure it's a follow up to those "baby Hitler" comments the Legion made about Damian a few months back. The ones I was kinda hoping would be forgotten. 

DC. What are you doing to my boys!? It's not just Jon and Damian. I haven't enjoyed Gar or Bart in years either  
  -___-

----------


## Ansa

> "To prove a point".
> I really hope all of that is just misleading.


I hope so too.
Maybe Emiko is thinking about Damian saying that they didn't go far enough at the end of TT 41.
If whatever she found is connected to Damian it would make sense for her to come to that conclusion.

I'm not too worried yet tho. Emiko says someone wanted them to find the evidence. So someone planting evidence that points to Damian or even Heretic trying to blame this all on his clone/twin is still possible.

----------


## king81992

> I hope so too.
> Maybe Emiko is thinking about Damian saying that they didn't go far enough at the end of TT 41.
> If whatever she found is connected to Damian it would make sense for her to come to that conclusion.
> 
> I'm not too worried yet tho. Emiko says someone wanted them to find the evidence. So someone planting evidence that points to Damian or even Heretic trying to blame this all on his clone/twin is still possible.


Damian being the killer feels like a blatant red herring, I'll be shocked if the writer goes through with it. It's not like there isn't a shortage of people who would want to frame Damian roaming around.

----------


## Ansa

> Damian being the killer feels like a blatant red herring, I'll be shocked if the writer goes through with it. It's not like there isn't a shortage of people who would want to frame Damian roaming around.


I agree. When we only had the solicitations for 43 and 44 and the annual got pushed back to August I thought that after the prison and the brainwashing it wouldn't be impossible for DC to be that careless with Damian's character.
But after looking at the updated cover for 42 and reading the issue I felt like this was too much bait.
When the cover and the first two pages of a story try to frame a character that hard, but the writer still refuses to admit that he did it something is fishy.

----------


## Ansa

> It's not like there isn't a shortage of people who would want to frame Damian roaming around.


Yep, he pissed of enough people.
As long as there is no camera footage and no witnesses and fingerprints the Heretic would have an easy game. He is Damian's clone, so all he has to do is kill people that Damian has a reason to kill, leave DNA evidence and most people would be convinced Damian did it. Except for Damian of course.

----------


## Morgoth

Judging by this, Damian can somehow join The WildC.A.T.s. Maybe that's the plan for him after Teen Titans, since Grifter set to have some important role in Gotham after The Joker War, just as Damian.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Judging by this, Damian can somehow join The WildC.A.T.s. Maybe that's the plan for him after Teen Titans, since Grifter set to have some important role in Gotham after The Joker War, just as Damian.


That idea was rejected though.

The original idea for villainizing Damian is probably to make him leave the Bat fam in preparation for 5G where Superman had to look for him to save Batman's daughter (Helena when BatCat plan was still canon) as written in Doomsday Clock, but now that 5G is relegated to an alternate timeline, yet they're still going down this path, I wonder if they're simply finishing up on stories that are already written but planned to turn it around in the end.

Even if they end up using the Wildcat idea, Damian is in the team with Bruce so they're not separating or antagonistic anymore.

----------


## Morgoth

He won't be antagonist, absolutely. At least because WB won't let them to do it, lol. With 5G it would be possible, but now it's out of question and Tynion is bringing him back.



> The original idea for villainizing Damian is probably to make him leave the Bat fam in preparation for 5G where Superman had to look for him to save Batman's daughter (Helena when BatCat plan was still canon) as written in Doomsday Clock, but now that 5G is relegated to an alternate timeline, yet they're still going down this path, I wonder if they're simply finishing up on stories that are already written but planned to turn it around in the end.


It was opposite. Superman would join forces with Helena to save Damian. I guess, that would not be Clark, but Jon.

----------


## Astralabius

> That idea was rejected though.
> 
> The original idea for villainizing Damian is probably to make him leave the Bat fam in preparation for 5G where Superman had to look for him to save Batman's daughter (Helena when BatCat plan was still canon) as written in Doomsday Clock, but now that 5G is relegated to an alternate timeline, yet they're still going down this path, I wonder if they're simply finishing up on stories that are already written but planned to turn it around in the end.
> 
> Even if they end up using the Wildcat idea, Damian is in the team with Bruce so they're not separating or antagonistic anymore.


I don't know why so many people think Doomsday Clock was talking about a new Helena, the bit about having to save Damian was set in 2026. She would have been what, six?
Earth 2 Helena makes more sense.

And even then I kinda doubt the future that was presented there was ever supposed to become true. That's not how DC works.

----------


## sifighter

Ill be honest, the better Supersons moment was over in Hope at worlds end #5 today....and also Damians mother.

----------


## Ansa

> I’ll be honest, the better Supersons moment was over in Hope at worlds end #5 today....and also Damian’s mother.


Haven't looked at TT 43 yet, but from what I heard it's not good.
Hope at World's End and Gotham Nights 13 were both really enjoyable though.
Sadly out of continuity Damian stories being much better than what we get in main continuity has been the case for some time now  :Frown:

----------


## Morgoth

Yeah, I guess you won't like TT 43. 
DCeased is awesome.

----------


## Katana500

I really enjoyed Hope in World's end 5!

Damian, Jon and Cassie working together was awesome! and I loved Damian's interactions with the other characters who appeared!

----------


## Konja7

> I really enjoyed Hope in World's end 5!
> 
> Damian, Jon and Cassie working together was awesome! and I loved Damian's interactions with the other characters who appeared!


Yeah. Damian was pretty good in this issue.

He has even gotten a Robin.

----------


## DragonPiece

So I read Teen Titans, it really seems like all roads is heading on Damian going down a evil path soon. From the teases in legion of superheroes comparing him hitler and we know the events from this book will affect what's happening in Tynion's Batman run...

----------


## Light of Justice

I think DC want to push Damian into Batman666 storyline. The Book of Damned is still on Damian's possession and it says that on 14 years old he will makes a contract with devil for power to protect innocent people CMIIW.

----------


## Ansa

> So I read Teen Titans, it really seems like all roads is heading on Damian going down a evil path soon. From the teases in legion of superheroes comparing him hitler and we know the events from this book will affect what's happening in Tynion's Batman run...


*groan*
I hate this book. I hate it so much. DC really wants you to abandon main continuity for good.

----------


## Ansa

> I think DC want to push Damian into Batman666 storyline. The Book of Damned is still on Damian's possession and it says that on 14 years old he will makes a contract with devil for power to protect innocent people CMIIW.


Might be unpopular here, but I never liked Batman 666 and by now it just bores me. Writers don't seem to be able to let it go and it's annoying. Write something new DC.

----------


## Eckri

Finished reading Hope's end issue 5 and TT#43.
Damian's character in Hope's end should be the ideal personality in the main timeline, the latter seems like a total regression.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Finished reading Hope's end issue 5 and TT#43.
> Damian's character in Hope's end should be the ideal personality in the main timeline, the latter seems like a total regression.


It was not even regression, it was total slaughter. Like, okay he killed again etc I'm starting to accept that fact, but there's no way he wants other TT members to join him and become 'team murder'? I remember in this same f*cking shitty Teen Titans run he even blamed himself because Red Arrow killed Deathstroke for his sake? 
I didn't expect anything good, but I still feel disappointed.

----------


## sifighter

Honestly, I’m strangely not convinced by the pages of Teen Titan #43. It could just be bad writing, which of course is extremely possible, but the problem I’m having is the plot and some of the writing itself.

1. We don’t see Damian kill brother blood, he only says it’s true. Not even a flashback page or even video or something that he truly did it.
2. He leaves dirt behind both for the titans and Batman, for what reason?
3. And at the end he doesn’t kill KGBeast he only cuts off his fake gun arm where if this was really the direction to go he would have dealt a more fatal blow. 

I could be wrong but something feels wrong and I’m just not buying it. I'm not immediately convinced that we are getting the whole picture, but I suppose that remains to be seen.

----------


## king81992

> So I read Teen Titans, it really seems like all roads is heading on Damian going down a evil path soon. From the teases in legion of superheroes comparing him hitler and we know the events from this book will affect what's happening in Tynion's Batman run...


Even after reading TT, I'm still convinced that Damian's heel turn is going to be one big ruse/red herring.

----------


## king81992

> Honestly, I’m strangely not convinced by the pages of Teen Titan #43. It could just be bad writing, which of course is extremely possible, but the problem I’m having is the plot and some of the writing itself.
> 
> 1. We don’t see Damian kill brother blood, he only says it’s true. Not even a flashback page or even video or something that he truly did it.
> 2. He leaves dirt behind both for the titans and Batman, for what reason?
> 3. And at the end he doesn’t kill KGBeast he only cuts off his fake gun arm where if this was really the direction to go he would have dealt a more fatal blow. 
> 
> I could be wrong but something feels wrong and I’m just not buying it. I'm not immediately convinced that we are getting the whole picture, but I suppose that remains to be seen.


The entire run has been bad writing, but I agree, the whole setup is sketchy. The writers are trying way too hard to make us think that Damian is the killer.

----------


## sifighter

> The entire run has been bad writing, but I agree, the whole setup is sketchy. The writers are trying way too hard to make us think that Damian is the killer.


Yeah like I feel if we were going to make a turn where Damian starts killing people, we would actually see him kill someone. Or if we didn't the evidence wouldn't be we found dirt, it would be they found a security camera with Damian on it killing someone.

It feels more like Damian is testing people or something

----------


## Eckri

The current run of the Teen Titan's is...better term is lacking. Honestly, I think an agreement can be made we all just want this run to end. Hopefully Damian's gets some cool off after this whole 'I become a killer because I was born for it' fiasco. 

Also something about Hope's End issue 5

Really expected Damian to call Steph fat at the end though.

----------


## king81992

> Yeah like I feel if we were going to make a turn where Damian starts killing people, we would actually see him kill someone. Or if we didn't the evidence wouldn't be we found dirt, it would be they found a security camera with Damian on it killing someone.
> 
> It feels more like Damian is testing people or something


I have no idea what Damian would be testing them for by pretending to be a killer, but he might be working the case from a different angle.

----------


## Ansa

Even if his actions are a ruse, Damian's thoughts alone piss me off. I just want this terrible book to  burn in a dumpster.

----------


## Morgoth

At the same time, Damian left clue for Bruce as well. If he really became a killer, it would be strange for him to put Batman on his own track, knowing that he would easily stop him.
I guess there will be something else. Thompson didn't even show Blood's body and the moment of his death.

----------


## Ansa

> Honestly, I’m strangely not convinced by the pages of Teen Titan #43. It could just be bad writing, which of course is extremely possible, but the problem I’m having is the plot and some of the writing itself.
> 
> 1. We don’t see Damian kill brother blood, he only says it’s true. Not even a flashback page or even video or something that he truly did it.
> 2. He leaves dirt behind both for the titans and Batman, for what reason?
> 3. And at the end he doesn’t kill KGBeast he only cuts off his fake gun arm where if this was really the direction to go he would have dealt a more fatal blow. 
> 
> I could be wrong but something feels wrong and I’m just not buying it. I'm not immediately convinced that we are getting the whole picture, but I suppose that remains to be seen.


I've been waiting for DC to turn around and tell me it's not what it looks like ever since the Glass run started. So far I have only been disappointed.
I want your theory to be true, but I don't want to get my hopes up anymore.

----------


## DragonPiece

> Yeah like I feel if we were going to make a turn where Damian starts killing people, we would actually see him kill someone. Or if we didn't the evidence wouldn't be we found dirt, it would be they found a security camera with Damian on it killing someone.
> 
> It feels more like Damian is testing people or something


I think regardless if he killed that one person or not, teen titans annual 2 will lead to him leaving the team and going on his own path.

----------


## Morgoth

> Honestly, I’m strangely not convinced by the pages of Teen Titan #43. It could just be bad writing, which of course is extremely possible, but the problem I’m having is the plot and some of the writing itself.
> 
> 1. We don’t see Damian kill brother blood, he only says it’s true. Not even a flashback page or even video or something that he truly did it.
> 2. He leaves dirt behind both for the titans and Batman, for what reason?
> 3. And at the end he doesn’t kill KGBeast he only cuts off his fake gun arm where if this was really the direction to go he would have dealt a more fatal blow. 
> 
> I could be wrong but something feels wrong and I’m just not buying it. I'm not immediately convinced that we are getting the whole picture, but I suppose that remains to be seen.


I will also add another moment - Damian didn't say he's gonna kill anyone. And about Blood he's telling "this wasn't murder". 
Instead he's talking about fear.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I will also add another moment - Damian didn't say he's gonna kill anyone. And about Blood he's telling "this wasn't murder". 
> Instead he's talking about fear.


Oh oh, I want to also add another moment, Damian said that he wants to show TT members his 'real justice' *"starting with KGBeast"*. But isn't Brother Blood the start of Damian's 'justice'? He pretty much shows them that it's better if Brother Blood was died for good, even Crush and Red Arrow kinda admit it. 

Come come dear friends, let's built our scattered hopes and waited for them to be destroyed again...

----------


## Ansa

> Oh oh, I want to also add another moment, Damian said that he wants to show TT members his 'real justice' *"starting with KGBeast"*. But isn't Brother Blood the start of Damian's 'justice'? He pretty much shows them that it's better if Brother Blood was died for good, even Crush and Red Arrow kinda admit it. 
> 
> Come come dear friends, let's built our scattered hopes and waited for them to be destroyed again...


Can't. Too tired of DC  :Frown:

----------


## scary harpy

> Can't. Too tired of DC


amen. 10 characters

----------


## sifighter

> Oh oh, I want to also add another moment, Damian said that he wants to show TT members his 'real justice' *"starting with KGBeast"*. But isn't Brother Blood the start of Damian's 'justice'? He pretty much shows them that it's better if Brother Blood was died for good, even Crush and Red Arrow kinda admit it. 
> 
> Come come dear friends, let's built our scattered hopes and waited for them to be destroyed again...


God I feel like I’m quoting frozen when I say this, but my hope isn’t that fragile or that easy to break.

I get it’s not a great story, but it’s not going to make me hate DC or stop me reading. DC last year had Wally West go on a mental breakdown and accidentally kill other heroes....guess what I’m still reading DC and I’m reading stories staring Wally West like Flash Forward or Death Metal. Hell look at Hal Jordan and his whole Parallax episode. I’ve seen plenty of characters have bad runs or character assassinations, but for every bad run eventually a good run comes in and tells a story that we enjoy and helps the character. We just have to roll with the times, as we have seen before with the 80+ years of comics. I have faith in the continual existence of the characters themselves.

----------


## Ansa

I mean, we could just get into better mediums instead of waiting for years to see how shitty a comic turns out to be when it's finished.

----------


## Digifiend

> The current run of the Teen Titan's is...better term is lacking. Honestly, I think an agreement can be made we all just want this run to end. Hopefully Damian's gets some cool off after this whole 'I become a killer because I was born for it' fiasco. 
> 
> Also something about Hope's End issue 5
> 
> Really expected Damian to call Steph fat at the end though.


Those attached pages are backwards. You have the earliest page last and the final page first.

Weird to see a Batman with a Robin older than he is (Steph's about six years Damian's senior).

----------


## Jackalope89

> Those attached pages are backwards. You have the earliest page last and the final page first.
> 
> Weird to see a Batman with a Robin older than he is (Steph's about six years Damian's senior).


Like having a grumpy Robin and a light-hearted Batman?

----------


## Konja7

> Those attached pages are backwards. You have the earliest page last and the final page first.
> 
> Weird to see a Batman with a Robin older than he is (Steph's about six years Damian's senior).


I'm not sure Stephanie is 6 years older than Damian (the continuity is confusing in that aspect). She could be just three years older.

----------


## Blue22

I freakin loved everything about this XD

----------


## Katana500

> I freakin loved everything about this XD


The three of them had such a fun dynamic in the issue!

makes me wish there was a wondergirl as part of the supersons in main continuity

----------


## Blue22

Just finished the whole issue and DAMN! This was the happiest a DC title has made me in SO long. I can't remember if anything that's happened since Didio took over has made me smile the way I did today. 

The first DCeased series already had me forgiving Taylor for Injustice (which wasn't all his fault anyway) but between this issue and Suicide Squad, he's shaping up to be like....my second or third favorite writer. I need them to give him a Batfamily book in the main universe. Or more Super Sons stories (Hell, I'd even settle for Jon's...Imperfect Form, if it's written the way Taylor writes Perfect Jon)

----------


## Jackalope89

> Just finished the whole issue and DAMN! This was the happiest a DC title has made me in SO long. I can't remember if anything that's happened since Didio took over has made me smile the way I did today. 
> 
> The first DCeased series already had me forgiving Taylor for Injustice (which wasn't all his fault anyway) but between this issue and Suicide Squad, he's shaping up to be like....my second or third favorite writer. I need them to give him a Batfamily book in the main universe. Or more Super Sons stories (Hell, I'd even settle for Jon's...Imperfect Form, if it's written the way Taylor writes Perfect Jon)


It was really written great. 

And I second the Wonder Girl for Jon and Damian to bounce off of. Maybe bringing Lyta Trevor back into continuity?

----------


## dietrich

> Just finished the whole issue and DAMN! This was the happiest a DC title has made me in SO long. I can't remember if anything that's happened since Didio took over has made me smile the way I did today. 
> 
> The first DCeased series already had me forgiving Taylor for Injustice (which wasn't all his fault anyway) but between this issue and Suicide Squad, he's shaping up to be like....my second or third favorite writer. I need them to give him a Batfamily book in the main universe. Or more Super Sons stories (Hell, I'd even settle for Jon's...Imperfect Form, if it's written the way Taylor writes Perfect Jon)


All of this! Couldn't agree more.

Tom Taylor is smashing it.
The new Trinity and the new Robin warmed my heart.

----------


## Katana500

> All of this! Couldn't agree more.
> 
> Tom Taylor is smashing it.
> The new Trinity and the new Robin warmed my heart.


One thing I love about Taylor's comics. Is that you can really tell he has a passion for some of the characters  most obviously seen with - Harley, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Damian, Jon etc. I reckon because he loves the characters and is having fun writing them, it just makes the book alot more enjoyable.

----------


## Jackalope89

> One thing I love about Taylor's comics. Is that you can really tell he has a passion for some of the characters  most obviously seen with - Harley, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Damian, Jon etc. I reckon because he loves the characters and is having fun writing them, it just makes the book alot more enjoyable.


Even the Kiteman bit was pretty good.

The only downer? You quickly realize its Elseworld when you see the horde of zombies and the graves of the other Bats (barring Jason, Cass, and Ace, I think it was).

----------


## Konja7

A "joke" I heard is that we have three stories with Damian today, two are great, and the other one is canon.

----------


## Jackalope89

> A "joke" I heard is that we have three stories with Damian today, two are great, and the other one is canon.


Pretty much.

----------


## Light of Justice

> One thing I love about Taylor's comics. Is that you can really tell he has a passion for some of the characters  most obviously seen with - Harley, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Damian, Jon etc. I reckon because he loves the characters and is having fun writing them, it just makes the book alot more enjoyable.


Yeah, his writing on Damian in Tec is so enjoyable, and even though Harley makes me feel annoyed in Injustice (and most of characters on that story), I enjoy Harley on SS. I hope that someday he will handle Bat books, even though it maybe will be bad news for Nightwing fans (I noticed that he had little care for Dick, and Tim).

Anyone knows when the next DC solicitation will be updated on newsarama (or gamesradar)?

----------


## Astralabius

> Yeah, his writing on Damian in Tec is so enjoyable, and even though Harley makes me feel annoyed in Injustice (and most of characters on that story), I enjoy Harley on SS. I hope that someday he will handle Bat books, even though it maybe will be bad news for Nightwing fans (I noticed that he had little care for Dick, and Tim).
> 
> Anyone knows when the next DC solicitation will be updated on newsarama (or gamesradar)?


Probably this friday.

----------


## Astralabius

> A "joke" I heard is that we have three stories with Damian today, two are great, and the other one is canon.


Sadly that's very true.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Posted wrong

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I really enjoyed Hope in World's end 5!
> 
> Damian, Jon and Cassie working together was awesome! and I loved Damian's interactions with the other characters who appeared!


This spoilered me so hard.
Just read, agree, amazing well done.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Oh oh, I want to also add another moment, Damian said that he wants to show TT members his 'real justice' *"starting with KGBeast"*. But isn't Brother Blood the start of Damian's 'justice'? He pretty much shows them that it's better if Brother Blood was died for good, even Crush and Red Arrow kinda admit it. 
> 
> Come come dear friends, let's built our scattered hopes and waited for them to be destroyed again...


Language is something so amazing  :Big Grin:  I agree, I do think Damian thinks the TT are talking about what he decided to do with KGBeast, and TT think Damian is talking about killed Blood.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Can someone tell in short lines how is the BatCat status? And her pregnancy?

----------


## Rebeca Armus

"It's fun and it's cool, so that's all that matters. It's what comics are for, Duh."
Words to live by.

When you guys say that I imagine DC writers like: "ohohoho! Poor poor peoples"

----------


## sifighter

> Can someone tell in short lines how is the BatCat status? And her pregnancy?


Relationship still in tact, mini-series unknown but Non canon as of now

Also I appreciate the shout out above.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I think Damian become dangerous when he feel alone, we can see he progressing when he was with Dick, with Batman, with Jon, but since he is just with TT he is losting himself more and more, principally in this new teen, Damian started his assasin training with 3? And stopped with 10, now he is 14? So he lived more time of his life assassin crazy style than hero style.
Beside, in this time he learned follow someone, he never was a leader. When he is with Jon Jon don't see he like a leader too. Like, if Dick was the TT leader Damian wasn't going to lost control. He is too young for be a leader, he still can't balance being a leader and part of a group. So I think would be good for him get out of TT buuuut even worst if he decides go way from everybody, because he would be alone and his own leader.
I hope since Batman is trying became near again, Dick is getting his memory and Jon don't wants Damian deal everything by himself, is still time Damian will choose her family and friends.

----------


## Morgoth

I have a feeling that his whole plan is just to make everyone afraid of him, even more afraid of Batman (if they are afraid of Robin, they will shame off Batman even more) or fear the Titans (Blood just tried to take revenge before , as someone got to him, maybe this is a way to make everyone stop trying to take revenge). Perhaps this will be the reason why Damian will cease to be Robin - he will succeed so much in his plan that Robins symbol itself will be discredited in the form in which they are used to seeing him. At least Im still convinced that its not Bruce who will expel him, but that he will leave himself.
By the way, about him going missing, it's just a thought, but after Jon's appearance in last TT issue does someone else thinks that Damian will leave with Jon to join the Legion for a while? Yes, I know it doesn't seem realistic, and most of the people hate Bendis run, but some time ago he wrote that he has some plans for Super Sons + it was mentioned in Legion that one of their goals is preventing Damian from going dark path + we know, that he'll go missing and don't know how and where. And I think everyone will agree, that if Jon will just leave him after that conversation that will be extremely stupid.

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## Rebeca Armus

> A "joke" I heard is that we have three stories with Damian today, two are great, and the other one is canon.


Ndkdldbdmdkdodlndjdkdjdjdk

https://archiveofourown.org/works/20568785
I read this fanfic when things a too tragic in canon or in my family life XD. Maybe you guys like. Short sweet fanfic about Bruce beeing a good father.

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## Rebeca Armus

> I have a feeling that his whole plan is just to make everyone afraid of him, even more afraid of Batman (if they are afraid of Robin, they will shame off Batman even more) or fear the Titans (Blood just tried to take revenge before , as someone got to him, maybe this is a way to make everyone stop trying to take revenge). Perhaps this will be the reason why Damian will cease to be Robin - he will succeed so much in his plan that Robin’s symbol itself will be discredited in the form in which they are used to seeing him. At least I’m still convinced that it’s not Bruce who will expel him, but that he will leave himself.
> By the way, about him going missing, it's just a thought, but after Jon's appearance in last TT issue does someone else thinks that Damian will leave with Jon to join the Legion for a while? Yes, I know it doesn't seem realistic, and most of the people hate Bendis run, but some time ago he wrote that he has some plans for Super Sons + it was mentioned in Legion that one of their goals is preventing Damian from going dark path + we know, that he'll go missing and don't know how and where. And I think everyone will agree, that if Jon will just leave him after that conversation that will be extremely stupid.


Like, Blood was killed for someone, Damian got the assassin, but made looks like he was the killer? So he will have the fear power he wants?

About Legion possibility, I don't think it's going to happen, but I would love.
Actually, anything that don't let Damian alone, in deep pain, and dark path would be loved by me.

----------


## scary harpy

> Ndkdldbdmdkdodlndjdkdjdjdk
> 
> https://archiveofourown.org/works/20568785
> I read this fanfic when things a too tragic in canon or in my family life XD. Maybe you guys like. Short sweet fanfic about Bruce beeing a good father.


That would have to be a fanfic, wouldn't it.

----------


## Astralabius

> I have a feeling that his whole plan is just to make everyone afraid of him, even more afraid of Batman (if they are afraid of Robin, they will shame off Batman even more) or fear the Titans (Blood just tried to take revenge before , as someone got to him, maybe this is a way to make everyone stop trying to take revenge). Perhaps this will be the reason why Damian will cease to be Robin - he will succeed so much in his plan that Robins symbol itself will be discredited in the form in which they are used to seeing him. At least Im still convinced that its not Bruce who will expel him, but that he will leave himself.
> By the way, about him going missing, it's just a thought, but after Jon's appearance in last TT issue does someone else thinks that Damian will leave with Jon to join the Legion for a while? Yes, I know it doesn't seem realistic, and most of the people hate Bendis run, but some time ago he wrote that he has some plans for Super Sons + it was mentioned in Legion that one of their goals is preventing Damian from going dark path + we know, that he'll go missing and don't know how and where. And I think everyone will agree, that if Jon will just leave him after that conversation that will be extremely stupid.


I'm not convinced DC will let Damian have the dignity to leave the mantle out of his own volition. They haven't treated his character with respect this entire story.

Bendis getting to decide DC Damian's direction after Teen Titans sounds like my personal nightmare.

----------


## dietrich

> I have a feeling that his whole plan is just to make everyone afraid of him, even more afraid of Batman (if they are afraid of Robin, they will shame off Batman even more) or fear the Titans (Blood just tried to take revenge before , as someone got to him, maybe this is a way to make everyone stop trying to take revenge). Perhaps this will be the reason why Damian will cease to be Robin - he will succeed so much in his plan that Robins symbol itself will be discredited in the form in which they are used to seeing him. At least Im still convinced that its not Bruce who will expel him, but that he will leave himself.
> By the way, about him going missing, it's just a thought, but after Jon's appearance in last TT issue does someone else thinks that Damian will leave with Jon to join the Legion for a while? Yes, I know it doesn't seem realistic, and most of the people hate Bendis run, but some time ago he wrote that he has some plans for Super Sons + it was mentioned in Legion that one of their goals is preventing Damian from going dark path + we know, that he'll go missing and don't know how and where. And I think everyone will agree, that if Jon will just leave him after that conversation that will be extremely stupid.


Unlikely that Damian will join LOSH. He has just been returned to the bat editorial offices so Bendis can't use him anymore. 
Damian up till recently has been under the Superman editorial office.

----------


## dietrich

> Can someone tell in short lines how is the BatCat status? And her pregnancy?


They are still going though the batcat shippers and catwoman twitter is still calling for fans to boycott Tynion's run and they are still pushing that change.org sheet for people to sign to get them wed.

the book is coming along and the Baby was born now in her 30's, Bruce is dead and Selina is grey

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> They are still going though the batcat shippers and catwoman twitter is still calling for fans to boycott Tynion's run and they are still pushing that change.org sheet for people to sign to get them wed.
> 
> the book is coming along and the Baby was born now in her 30's, Bruce is dead and Selina is grey


I knooowww you are being sarcastic but I didn't get the english, sorry =-= but I think is nice batcat keep for a while, I don't like couples that just exist for break up hook up.

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## shadow6743

At this point I really just want to see how Teen Titans ends. I don't particularly care for the direction of Damian in the book but I like the rest of the cast. I really not freaking out about Damian's future at this point. I wish they would do some different stories with his character. But at this I don't think its writers wanting this direction as much as DC editorial. I have a hard time believing every Teen Titans writer had the same idea for one character. But, the way I see it you only need one retcon or story to change the direction of a character. Wally went from Heroes in Crisis to Flash Forward so at this rate nothing in comics scares me anymore. I doubt this is going to stick for long. Nothing in comics does because of the constant change in runs.

----------


## Jackalope89

> At this point I really just want to see how Teen Titans ends. I don't particularly care for the direction of Damian in the book but I like the rest of the cast. I really not freaking out about Damian's future at this point. I wish they would do some different stories with his character. But at this I don't think its writers wanting this direction as much as DC editorial. I have a hard time believing every Teen Titans writer had the same idea for one character. But, the way I see it you only need one retcon or story to change the direction of a character. Wally went from Heroes in Crisis to Flash Forward so at this rate nothing in comics scares me anymore. I doubt this is going to stick for long. Nothing in comics does because of the constant change in runs.


I started the latest issue, saw fake Jon, ditched it.

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## shadow6743

> I started the latest issue, saw fake Jon, ditched it.


Seeing big Jon still hurts my heart. I still don't understand that decision. He can be any age and join the Legion. Clark wasn't that old when he was Superboy and part of the Legion during the Silver and Golden ages. Its really weird.

----------


## shadow6743

Although I find it interesting they don't show Damian killing Brother Blood. My whole idea is what if he actually didn't. Damian doesn't actually have to kill any villains he just has to make them think that he will. Bruce does it all the time it's not about taking a life its about making villains scared to act. Think about how many crimes probably aren't committed in Gotham because a criminal thinks a Batman might hang them by their feet off of Gotham Harbor. Damian's just making it more extreme because the cases he's dealing with were more extreme than muggers. Anyone else remember the time Batman threatened to blow up Apocalypse or set Martians on fire in JLA? It's the same thing. I actually would prefer that storyline because it would cause Bruce to have to think about how his methods of crime fighting truly affect his son.

----------


## Shen

> Although I find it interesting they don't show Damian killing Brother Blood. My whole idea is what if he actually didn't. Damian doesn't actually have to kill any villains he just has to make them think that he will. Bruce does it all the time it's not about taking a life its about making villains scared to act. Think about how many crimes probably aren't committed in Gotham because a criminal thinks a Batman might hang them by their feet off of Gotham Harbor. Damian's just making it more extreme because the cases he's dealing with were more extreme than muggers. Anyone else remember the time Batman threatened to blow up Apocalypse or set Martians on fire in JLA? It's the same thing. I actually would prefer that storyline because it would cause Bruce to have to think about how his methods of crime fighting truly affect his son.


This is exactly what I thought, he doesn't need to actually kill again - more like maim or severely hurt. He did say he wasn't going far enough. Damian making other's think he will kill again in order to inspire fear reminds me of what Klaus from the Originals did in season 2 - He took the blame for a murder he didn't commit in order to get people to fear him more. DC seriously can't ignore the fact that he had a gun to Deathstroke's head and didn't pull the trigger, can they..? 

I'm hoping this is The Other/Heretic framing him to create conflict between the Titans and Damian, then Damian and Bruce. That all spirals until he gives up the mantle for some reason. Then the Titans can go on their merry way - away.

----------


## Astralabius

> This is exactly what I thought, he doesn't need to actually kill again - more like maim or severely hurt. He did say he wasn't going far enough. Damian making other's think he will kill again in order to inspire fear reminds me of what Klaus from the Originals did in season 2 - He took the blame for a murder he didn't commit in order to get people to fear him more. DC seriously can't ignore the fact that he had a gun to Deathstroke's head and didn't pull the trigger, can they..? 
> 
> I'm hoping this is The Other/Heretic framing him to create conflict between the Titans and Damian, then Damian and Bruce. That all spirals until he gives up the mantle for some reason. Then the Titans can go on their merry way - away.


Damian trying to instill more fear in criminals while also constantly whining about Bruce's methods, that are also based on fear, sounds kinda dumb. I don't mean your theory, I mean the writing. But hey, this book has tried to contrast Bruce and Damian several times and only made them more similar in the worst way.
The only problem is that Bruce always gets his ass kissed by DC while Damian is just one of many members of the supporting cast.

Honestly, revealing that Damian has been brainwashed by his evil twin is probably the only way DC could keep me from taking a nice, long break from their comics.
I just want to be able to forget that this comic exists.

----------


## Astralabius

............

----------


## Ansa

> Seeing big Jon still hurts my heart. I still don't understand that decision. He can be any age and join the Legion. Clark wasn't that old when he was Superboy and part of the Legion during the Silver and Golden ages. Its really weird.


It was a bad and unnecessary decsion, like pretty much everything Bendis has done at DC.

----------


## Morgoth

> Unlikely that Damian will join LOSH. He has just been returned to the bat editorial offices so Bendis can't use him anymore. 
> Damian up till recently has been under the Superman editorial office.


We don't know for sure, exactly when he's coming back to Bat-comics. It can be Joker War, it can be Death Metal or it will happen next year.
I just noticed, that Bendis's finishing his Legion arc in September, exactly after Annual in August, and that will happen next is question for now. So, maybe it's possibility. 
Anyway, we should wait for solitications this Friday.

----------


## Light of Justice

> We don't know for sure, exactly when he's coming back to Bat-comics. It can be Joker War, it can be Death Metal or it will happen next year.
> I just noticed, that Bendis's finishing his Legion arc in September, exactly after Annual in August, and that will happen next is question for now. So, maybe it's possibility. 
> Anyway, we should wait for solitications this Friday.


Wait, Bendis finishing his Legion arc on September? So LOSH will end on September?
I don't think Damian join LOSH when every members see him as 'baby hitler' will be better than his status on Teen Titans right now. At this point I prefer Damian to cut all his ties with everyone and go solo somewhere like he did on RSOB. Perhaps they can bring Ravi back to provide Damian a temporary sanctuary place.

----------


## Ansa

> Wait, Bendis finishing his Legion arc on September? So LOSH will end on September?
> I don't think Damian join LOSH when every members see him as 'baby hitler' will be better than his status on Teen Titans right now. At this point I prefer Damian to cut all his ties with everyone and go solo somewhere like he did on RSOB. Perhaps they can bring Ravi back to provide Damian a temporary sanctuary place.


Let Goliath swoop in during the annual and let him carry Damian far away from all of DC's current bullshit.

----------


## Flash Gordon

> Unlikely that Damian will join LOSH. He has just been returned to the bat editorial offices so Bendis can't use him anymore. 
> Damian up till recently has been under the Superman editorial office.


Wow, I didn't know that about Damian being under the Superman office- man, that makes sense why he's been a mess lately. Hopefully he'll be returning to BATMAN.

----------


## Digifiend

Is Teen Titans in the Superman office then?




> Seeing big Jon still hurts my heart. I still don't understand that decision. He can be any age and join the Legion. Clark wasn't that old when he was Superboy and part of the Legion during the Silver and Golden ages. Its really weird.


The Legion didn't exist in the golden age. It debuted in 1958, two years after Barry Allen's debut started the silver age.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> . Anyone else remember the time Batman threatened to blow up Apocalypse or set Martians on fire in JLA? It's the same thing. I actually would prefer that storyline because it would cause Bruce to have to think about how his methods of crime fighting truly affect his son.


Bruce is not good in notice his mistakes and becoming a better person with it. He should learned how to be a better father after 3 sons, but I think he is getting worst (? Like, Barbara told with all words Damian needed him in Alfred Funeral, and Bruce was "he know he can comeback if he wants".
I don't read too much Batman, but besides make a progress having a real relationship with catwoman, did Bruce made any other improvements? I know he and Clark became friends after a long time and it was a progress to Bruce, but it was a loooong time ago and seeing by outside ( me) I don't see he learning with his mistakes.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Bruce is not good in notice his mistakes and becoming a better person with it. He should learned how to be a better father after 3 sons, but I think he is getting worst (? Like, Barbara told with all words Damian needed him in Alfred Funeral, and Bruce was "he know he can comeback if he wants".
> I don't read too much Batman, but besides make a progress having a real relationship with catwoman, did Bruce made any other improvements? I know he and Clark became friends after a long time and it was a progress to Bruce, but it was a loooong time ago and seeing by outside ( me) I don't see he learning with his mistakes.


Not really. He "kept an eye" on "Ric" during that fiasco. When Jason shot Penguin (with a blank, mind you), Bruce went all out on him, and Jason only escaped _Arkham_ because first, Bizarro, and later Roy, interfered. He still needed quite a bit of time to recover though.

----------


## Ansa

> Bruce is not good in notice his mistakes and becoming a better person with it. He should learned how to be a better father after 3 sons, but I think he is getting worst (? Like, Barbara told with all words Damian needed him in Alfred Funeral, and Bruce was "he know he can comeback if he wants".
> I don't read too much Batman, but besides make a progress having a real relationship with catwoman, did Bruce made any other improvements? I know he and Clark became friends after a long time and it was a progress to Bruce, but it was a loooong time ago and seeing by outside ( me) I don't see he learning with his mistakes.


I think Bruce has gotten worse over the years, not better. Which would be okay on some level if DC didn't try to sell us that Bruce is still a good person/great hero at the same time. It's kinda infuriating. Just admit that he's crap DC, don't come up with excuses for why his terrible behavior isn't actually that terrible.

----------


## Digifiend

> Wait, Bendis finishing his Legion arc on September? So LOSH will end on September?


LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES #9
written by BRIAN MICHAEL BENDIS
art by ARTHUR ADAMS, BRIAN MICHAEL BENDIS, JIM CHEUNG, NICK DERINGTON,
MICHEL FIFFE, GARY FRANK, JENNY FRISON, MITCH GERADS, MIKE GRELL, JAMES HARREN, TULA LOTAY, EMANUELA LUPACCHINO, DAVID MARQUEZ, KEVIN NOWLAN, JOE QUINONES, IVAN REIS, JOHN ROMITA JR., RILEY ROSSMO, NICOLA SCOTT, RYAN SOOK, GENE LUEN YANG and others
cover by RYAN SOOK
variant cover by ANDRE ARAUJO
ON SALE 09/29/20
$3.99 US | 32 PAGES | FC | DC
Continuing a very special two-part comics storytelling event! The United Planets have found the Legion of Super-Heroes guilty of crimes against the galaxy, and its up to our young heroes to prove their innocence! Featuring an all-star cast of artists, this issue will feature a surprise 1,000 years in the making! Long live the Legion!

That does not sound like a finale.

----------


## Korath

Yeah, I don't see the Legion ending anytime soon. 

But I wonder what the future has in store for Damian. His best stories (Robin:SOB notably) have seen him being away from Bruce and establishing his own friends (Maya, who has sadly also been hijacked by the Supersons "dynamic", and Sorin notably) but never from Robin. 

I think that he's a character able to ditch the mantle and not lose its appeal (unlike Tim who never managed to graduate from the mantle without stealing an entire chuck of Bruce's history and relationship with Ra's and co.) but I don't know what DC wants to do with him. Some soul-searching? Some Deathstroke-like run (I'd love for a Priest-written run of Damian, really) ? So many possibilities. Hopefully, no Supersons nonsense ever again.

----------


## Morgoth

Not Legion's ending, just one arc, in October another will start, I meant that. When solitications for October will be out? They released them only for Batman for some reason. 
By the way, I've been surprised, that Glass completely ignored Maya (but actually it's good he did that, otherwise her character would be harmed with shitty writing). With her backstory she would fit in this team actually. But this is all the idiotic manner of many writers to ignore the supporting characters of previous runs. 



> Hopefully, no Supersons nonsense ever again.


Huh, I guess you're in minority)

----------


## Light of Justice

> Not Legion's ending, just one arc, in October another will start, I meant that. When solitications for October will be out? They released them only for Batman for some reason. 
> By the way, I've been surprised, that Glass completely ignored Maya (but actually it's good he did that, otherwise her character would be harmed with shitty writing). With her backstory she would fit in this team actually. But this is all the idiotic manner of many writers to ignore the supporting characters of previous runs. 
> 
> Huh, I guess you're in minority)


Screenshot_2020-07-17-20-39-01-732_com.twitter.android.jpg
More or less 3 hour from now (CMIIW).

----------


## Korath

What a strange Batman cowl... Not sure I like the color scheme here.

----------


## Konja7

> Screenshot_2020-07-17-20-39-01-732_com.twitter.android.jpg
> More or less 3 hour from now (CMIIW).


The new suit is... interesting.

Considering there will likely be a relaunch of many comics (and maybe a reboot of the DC universe) after Death Metal, I don't think this will last long.

----------


## Morgoth

Lighter colors, smiling.
Something indeed will change in him, probably, just as Tynion promised.

----------


## Korath

> Lighter colors, smiling.
> Something indeed will change in him, probably, just as Tynion promised.


Damn it ! I hadn't even noticed that he was smilling ! Now I get why the picture crept me out a little...

Also, why is he smiling ? The man has been horrible and his biological son is going the way of his second adopted son (off the rails). Not really happy ties, except if Tynion keep up with King's depiction of Bat and Cat as the only good thing in his life...

----------


## Morgoth

I still think, that the most of the Batfamily will have reunion at the end and they'll defeat Joker together, and after battle will work together to rebuild the city. I remember, someone said that Joker War will be something like "anti-Death of the family". With or without Damian that's another question, but I think he'll be there at the end.

----------


## dietrich

> Is Teen Titans in the Superman office then?
> 
> The Legion didn't exist in the golden age. It debuted in 1958, two years after Barry Allen's debut started the silver age.


Nope the Titans has it's own Editorial but Damian wasn't under Titans he's been under the Superman editorial since his return from death

----------


## Restingvoice

> Nope the Titans has it's own Editorial but Damian wasn't under Titans he's been under the Superman editorial since his return from death


...why? That's kinda random

I was trying to remember who wrote Superman after Damian returns... oh it's Greg Pak... Truth... Lies... Before Truth... Savage Dawn... Death... while Jurgens is prepping the return of Post Crisis Superman alongside aging Jon Kent from a baby to ten years old...

...was it planned? They're already planning for Rebirth at least halfway through DC You, that's when Jon grew up in Lois and Clark, and the Titans were prepped to return in Titans Hunt, and Seeley and King left Grayson to start preparing Rebirth. All of that books started publishing six months before Rebirth started meaning it was written beforehand.

Were they planning for Super Sons more than six months before Rebirth and that's why they age up Jon from a baby to ten years old? Because they can easily transfer Jon from Post Crisis to New 52 as he was, a baby.

----------


## Morgoth

> Were they planning for Super Sons more than six months before Rebirth and that's why they age up Jon from a baby to ten years old? Because they can easily transfer Jon from Post Crisis to New 52 as he was, a baby.


Super Sons was closed because Bendis came and from the beginning wanted to age-up Jon. Series wasn't supposed to end that way, it had a bunch of positive reviews and was selling well, it was Bendis call. And DiDio, probably.
Damian was under Superman editorial group because Tomasi at that moment wrote Kent family, main title and Super Sons.

----------


## Morgoth

DETECTIVE COMICS #1029

Written by PETER J. TOMASI

Art and cover by KENNETH ROCAFORT card stock

Card stock variant cover by LEE BERMEJO

After the City of Bane, the Riddler's takeover, The Joker War, and more, the people of Gotham City have had enough. The world is changing for Bruce Wayne, and the question he must ask himself is: What role does the Batman have in a city that rejects him? As the year barrels forward into what will become a turning point for the Dark Knight, Batman must grapple with the very citizens he has sworn to protect...while a familiar face looms large as a new threat on the horizon: Damian Wayne!

32 pages, $3.99, (Card stock variant, $4.99(, in stores on Oct. 27.

----------


## Astralabius

> Attachment 98819
> More or less 3 hour from now (CMIIW).


It looks like the suit from the sneak peek for Batman #96(?)
42ca8d5f-82eb-43db-a99b-d74f12828c23.jpg
He's only wearing it in his dream though.

----------


## Astralabius

> DETECTIVE COMICS #1029
> 
> Written by PETER J. TOMASI
> 
> Art and cover by KENNETH ROCAFORT card stock
> 
> Card stock variant cover by LEE BERMEJO
> 
> After the City of Bane, the Riddler's takeover, The Joker War, and more, the people of Gotham City have had enough. The world is changing for Bruce Wayne, and the question he must ask himself is: What role does the Batman have in a city that rejects him? As the year barrels forward into what will become a turning point for the Dark Knight, Batman must grapple with the very citizens he has sworn to protect...while a familiar face looms large as a new threat on the horizon: Damian Wayne!
> ...


It's good to see this in Tomasi's hands and not Bendis'or Tynion's, but still ugh.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Super Sons was closed because Bendis came and from the beginning wanted to age-up Jon. Series wasn't supposed to end that way, it had a bunch of positive reviews and was selling well, it was Bendis call. And DiDio, probably.
> Damian was under Superman editorial group because Tomasi at that moment wrote Kent family, main title and Super Sons.


In other words, they've been planning to make Super Sons, including assigning Tomasi to the title since long before Rebirth began.

----------


## Morgoth

Well, it's actually the best case scenario - Tomasi will handle Damian's return to Gotham.
In which form we'll see, because solitications are frequently lying.
Also, Dick will face KGBeast after his return. So, Damian won't kill him, it seems.

----------


## sifighter

> DETECTIVE COMICS #1029
> 
> Written by PETER J. TOMASI
> 
> Art and cover by KENNETH ROCAFORT card stock
> 
> Card stock variant cover by LEE BERMEJO
> 
> After the City of Bane, the Riddler's takeover, The Joker War, and more, the people of Gotham City have had enough. The world is changing for Bruce Wayne, and the question he must ask himself is: What role does the Batman have in a city that rejects him? As the year barrels forward into what will become a turning point for the Dark Knight, Batman must grapple with the very citizens he has sworn to protect...while a familiar face looms large as a new threat on the horizon: Damian Wayne!
> ...


well this is going to be....interesting. I'm still going to wait and see how this plays out before jumping to conclusions

----------


## Light of Justice

> DETECTIVE COMICS #1029
> 
> Written by PETER J. TOMASI
> 
> Art and cover by KENNETH ROCAFORT card stock
> 
> Card stock variant cover by LEE BERMEJO
> 
> After the City of Bane, the Riddler's takeover, The Joker War, and more, the people of Gotham City have had enough. The world is changing for Bruce Wayne, and the question he must ask himself is: What role does the Batman have in a city that rejects him? As the year barrels forward into what will become a turning point for the Dark Knight, Batman must grapple with the very citizens he has sworn to protect...while a familiar face looms large as a new threat on the horizon: Damian Wayne!
> ...


I have a feeling it will be like Nobody story all over again. Or Jason.

----------


## Astralabius

> well this is going to be....interesting. I'm still going to wait and see how this plays out before jumping to conclusions


That's what I'm doing too, but I would be lying if I said I was excited for the next few months.

----------


## Light of Justice

> DETECTIVE COMICS #1029
> 
> Written by PETER J. TOMASI
> 
> Art and cover by KENNETH ROCAFORT card stock
> 
> Card stock variant cover by LEE BERMEJO
> 
> After the City of Bane, the Riddler's takeover, The Joker War, and more, the people of Gotham City have had enough. The world is changing for Bruce Wayne, and the question he must ask himself is: What role does the Batman have in a city that rejects him? As the year barrels forward into what will become a turning point for the Dark Knight, Batman must grapple with the very citizens he has sworn to protect...while a familiar face looms large as a new threat on the horizon: Damian Wayne!
> ...


by the way, where do you get that? I've searched for it, but I only found Tec #1028 solicitation

----------


## Morgoth

1594997548249.jpg
That's the villain of Tomasi story. He's some kind of serial killer, who'll be killing corrupt officials in Gotham.
Doesn't seem like it's Damian, so, probably it will be something like Born to kill again.



> by the way, where do you get that? I've searched for it, but I only found Tec #1028 solicitation


4chan.

----------


## Korath

> 1594997548249.jpg
> That's the villain of Tomasi story. He's some kind of serial killer, who'll be killing corrupt officials in Gotham.
> Doesn't seem like it's Damian, so, probably it will be something like Born to kill again.
> 
> 
> 4chan.


There is plenty of masks I don't recognize here, especially on his right (his left for us).

----------


## Light of Justice

> 1594997548249.jpg
> That's the villain of Tomasi story. He's some kind of serial killer, who'll be killing corrupt officials in Gotham.
> Doesn't seem like it's Damian, so, probably it will be something like Born to kill again.



It will be funny if a villain want to take Damian as his pupil after his big fight with Batman, again. And just after Batman take Dick from Joker. It will be Batman's ultimate karma.

Batman : Damnit you all villains stop taking my sons and adopting them as you like!




> 4chan.


Thanks!  :Wink:

----------


## shadow6743

> DETECTIVE COMICS #1029
> 
> Written by PETER J. TOMASI
> 
> Art and cover by KENNETH ROCAFORT card stock
> 
> Card stock variant cover by LEE BERMEJO
> 
> After the City of Bane, the Riddler's takeover, The Joker War, and more, the people of Gotham City have had enough. The world is changing for Bruce Wayne, and the question he must ask himself is: What role does the Batman have in a city that rejects him? As the year barrels forward into what will become a turning point for the Dark Knight, Batman must grapple with the very citizens he has sworn to protect...while a familiar face looms large as a new threat on the horizon: Damian Wayne!
> ...


I haven't been buying Dectective but I will definitely get it in October. Now I really wondering what is going to happen in Teen Titans in October. I am really excited to see what Tomasi has planned.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Now I really wondering what is going to happen in Teen Titans in October.



TEEN TITANS #46
written by ROBBIE THOMPSON
art by EDUARDO PANSICA
cover by BERNARD CHANG
card stock variant cover by PEACH MOMOKO
ON SALE 10/20/20
$3.99 US | 32 PAGES | FC | DC
CARD STOCK VARIANT COVER $4.99 US
With Damian Wayne renouncing his role as Robin and leaving the Teen Titans behind, Jon Kent returns from the future and the Legion of Super-Heroes to ask the remaining Titans some tough questions about his best friend. And when Superboy asks questions—he demands answers.

Jon looks so menacing on this solicitation. Emiko calm down, your arrow is useless anyway (unless she has kryptonite somehow).

----------


## shadow6743

> TEEN TITANS #46
> written by ROBBIE THOMPSON
> art by EDUARDO PANSICA
> cover by BERNARD CHANG
> card stock variant cover by PEACH MOMOKO
> ON SALE 10/20/20
> $3.99 US | 32 PAGES | FC | DC
> CARD STOCK VARIANT COVER $4.99 US
> With Damian Wayne renouncing his role as Robin and leaving the Teen Titans behind, Jon Kent returns from the future and the Legion of Super-Heroes to ask the remaining Titans some tough questions about his best friend. And when Superboy asks questionshe demands answers.
> ...


I know it's big Jon but now I am really excited. I now know I have at least 2 books I am buying in October.

----------


## king81992

> TEEN TITANS #46
> written by ROBBIE THOMPSON
> art by EDUARDO PANSICA
> cover by BERNARD CHANG
> card stock variant cover by PEACH MOMOKO
> ON SALE 10/20/20
> $3.99 US | 32 PAGES | FC | DC
> CARD STOCK VARIANT COVER $4.99 US
> With Damian Wayne renouncing his role as Robin and leaving the Teen Titans behind, Jon Kent returns from the future and the Legion of Super-Heroes to ask the remaining Titans some tough questions about his best friend. And when Superboy asks questions—he demands answers.
> ...


I'm surprised that this book hasn't been cancelled.

----------


## Morgoth

It can't be Damian on the horse, can he?
I just hope it's not his new design and serial killer is not him.

----------


## Ansa

> I'm surprised that this book hasn't been cancelled.


Me too. I think it needs to end.

----------


## shadow6743

> Me too. I think it needs to end.


It sells well in trades and consistently sells well in digital. Damian fans may dislike the book but quite a few Teen Titans fans rather enjoy it. If your not reading for Damian your not really caring about how this book affects him at all. Also, it out sells the Titans digital comic that is 99 cents. Digital sales and trades are what matters for this book cause one Diamond is not a distributor anymore and comic shops are not open in a lot of places anyway.

----------


## Digifiend

Honestly, I'd be surprised if Teen Titans #47 (in November) isn't the last issue. They can't last long with only four members and no Trinity representation.

----------


## Konja7

The solicitaations continue to say that Damian will stop to be Robin.

If he left the Robin mantle, what could be his new identity?

Batboy? Batkid?

----------


## Korath

He'll appears as a sort of opponent to Batman in 'Tec apparently. So I think he'll drop the childish names.

----------


## Morgoth

My bet, TT will end in November-December. And after Death Metal it'll be complete reboot of the team. They just useless right now, and even when Damian is gone, issue is about him, lol.
It's obvious, that DC prepares for relaunch. JLO, Outsiders and Batgirl are ending, Nightwing and Red Hood probably also will end soon (of course they will get new volumes after Death Metal). Superman titles and Legion also look like they're heading towards culmination of their storylines.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> The solicitaations continue to say that Damian will stop to be Robin.
> 
> If he left the Robin mantle, what could be his new identity?
> 
> Batboy? Batkid?


I think Damian would hate both, if he stop being Robin I don't think he will keep a Batfamily name.
Damian as Flame Bird: I want to belive

----------


## J. D. Guy

> Yeah, I don't see the Legion ending anytime soon. 
> 
> But I wonder what the future has in store for Damian. His best stories (Robin:SOB notably) have seen him being away from Bruce and establishing his own friends (Maya, who has sadly also been hijacked by the Supersons "dynamic", and Sorin notably) but never from Robin. 
> 
> I think that he's a character able to ditch the mantle and not lose its appeal (unlike Tim who never managed to graduate from the mantle without stealing an entire chuck of Bruce's history and relationship with Ra's and co.) but I don't know what DC wants to do with him. Some soul-searching? Some Deathstroke-like run (I'd love for a Priest-written run of Damian, really) ? So many possibilities. Hopefully, no Supersons nonsense ever again.


While I don't disdain Jon and Damian as a duo, I wonder how many realize the parallels between that and Colin Wilkes (who, in many respects, was both more street smart and intuitive than Jon, yet also more naive, innocent, and hopefully optimistic, given his circumstances, then Jon)? Like Maya Ducard and Sorin, Colin was an OG bestie to Damian well before Jon. Just as I miss Maya and Sorin, I also miss Colin. (Maps on the side was also cool/cute and missed.)

Korath, if you recall Colin, what did you think about him and his relationship with Damian? Given your misgivings with Damian's typical portrayal with Jon, what was/is your opinion regarding Damian and Colin?

----------


## DragonPiece

I'm glad to see Tomasi's detective book actually look interesting for once. Like you guys said, if anyone has to write a Damian going evil Tomasi is the best bet.

----------


## Korath

> While I don't disdain Jon and Damian as a duo, I wonder how many realize the parallels between that and Colin Wilkes? Like Maya Ducard and Sorin, Colin was an OG bestie to Damian well before Jon. Just as I miss Maya and Sorin, I also miss Colin. (Maps on the side was also cool/cute and missed.)
> 
> Korath, if you recall Colin, what did you think about him and his relationship with Damian? Given your misgivings with Damian's typical portrayal with Jon, what was/is your opinion regarding Damian and Colin?


I don't think I ever read Gotham Academy so I can't give an opinion just yet  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> The new suit is... interesting.
> 
> Considering there will likely be a relaunch of many comics (and maybe a reboot of the DC universe) after Death Metal, I don't think this will last long.


This will not last. I like suits changes, but blue cape and blue cowl? Liked the details of arms, where is batbelt? If for some reason Batman start to work in daylight make sences, but in night it's like a target, don't looks like this glow in the darkness? BUT I DID LIKE THIS SMILE!

----------


## Light of Justice

> I don't think I ever read Gotham Academy so I can't give an opinion just yet


Damian and Colin is on Street of Gotham issue #10-12. Also on Lil'Gotham but I don't remember the issue (and I don't think you will like it. If you don't like Damian and Jon because the silliness and Damian's watered down, Lil'Gotham has maximum Damian's silliness and watered down).

----------


## J. D. Guy

> I don't think I ever read Gotham Academy so I can't give an opinion just yet


Colin Wilkes debut in a 2008 Detective Comics, and his and Damian's story was in _Batman: Streets of Gotham_ in 2009. Colin was who I was asking your opinion on.

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Colin_Wilkes_(New_Earth)

Maps was the one who was in Gotham Academy.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Not really. He "kept an eye" on "Ric" during that fiasco. When Jason shot Penguin (with a blank, mind you), Bruce went all out on him, and Jason only escaped _Arkham_ because first, Bizarro, and later Roy, interfered. He still needed quite a bit of time to recover though.


Did be in Arkham ever helped any character? Because this is also a recover psicologic center, right? Why Bruce never say: I am going to send you, my loved son, for a good treatment place and  we are going to be together in this, I am support you" "I should at least ask about Penguin shoot BEFORE became crazy with you"

----------


## Morgoth

By the way, Tynion will be at Comic Con at Home, and perhaps will answer the questions about Joker War and his plans. Don't know about Tomasi being there, but maybe he'll share some information about Damian's role after JW there.

----------


## J. D. Guy

> I'm surprised that this book hasn't been cancelled.


That's because the book is doing better and is more well-liked and enjoyed then the popular opinion and narrative of this particular thread would suggest.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Did be in Arkham ever helped any character? Because this is also a recover psicologic center, right? Why Bruce never say: I am going to send you, my loved son, for a good treatment place and  we are going to be together in this, I am support you" "I should at least ask about Penguin shoot BEFORE became crazy with you"


This is Batman we're talking about. His communication skills are below zero.

----------


## TheCape

What has happened with Damian and his group, i haven't keep up with this series since issue 33, so i'm lost to what is suposedly going down (i really doubt that Damian is really letting the Robin identity behind, most likely is just storyline similar to Nightwing/The Target or that time when Steph remplaced Tim).

----------


## Korath

> Damian and Colin is on Street of Gotham issue #10-12. Also on Lil'Gotham but I don't remember the issue (and I don't think you will like it. If you don't like Damian and Jon because the silliness and Damian's watered down, Lil'Gotham has maximum Damian's silliness and watered down).


Lil'Gotham seems fun because it's an out of continuity cute book. I like those. I've a problem with Supersons' depiction of Damian because he witness insane things which should have an impact on him but somehow don't, mostly. That and nowadays his character seems to be more used as a prop in Jon kent's story.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Yeah, I don't see the Legion ending anytime soon. 
> 
> Hopefully, no Supersons nonsense ever again.


I read why some peoples here didn't like it, but Damian should can have a good teen time too, he is 13/14 now. he always be incapable of stay with anybody is what normally make peoples don't like him, like when BB said he is a bullying, I love Damian defects, but This is a difference betwing being annoying and being a bullying, he was annoying, funny and amazing in Super Sons. Don't want he to be like Bruce...

----------


## Frontier

I'm not absolutely in love with the current Teen Titans but I think it's probably a better Titans run than we've had in the last few relaunches/eras. 

I'm not really sure what DC is doing with Damian at this point.

----------


## Light of Justice

> What has happened with Damian and his group, i haven't keep up with this series since issue 33, so i'm lost to what is suposedly going down (i really doubt that Damian is really letting the Robin identity behind, most likely is just storyline similar to Nightwing/The Target or that time when Steph remplaced Tim).


the question is what HASN'T happened? Okay long story short, they brainwashed villains with Djinn's power, Djinn's ring got stolen, turns out Roundhouse stole it because he has grudge on Damian, he trapped Djinn on her rings forever, Lobo attacked them and brought them to The Other who turned out to be Heretic, they fight and Heretic was defeated(? it's unclear, he just went poof gone), because Djinn still trapped on her ring TT members went to purgatory to save Djinn and heaven, Djinn went with Jakeem and said that she loved both Damian and Crush, everyone got a hug except Damian, everyone left Damian behind, then we had this mess.

----------


## shadow6743

I wonder if this Damian we are seeing is actually Damian. I am thinking back to the Damian Son of Batman story by Morrison and Batman 666. The plot that sets these stories up is Damian making a pact with a demon when he is 14. So, DC could finally be answering if they future is going to occur or not. In the 666 future it is implied that the Batman in that future is not actually Damian but the Heretic. So, this could be really interesting.

----------


## TheCape

> the question is what HASN'T happened? Okay long story short, they brainwashed villains with Djinn's power, Djinn's ring got stolen, turns out Roundhouse stole it because he has grudge on Damian, he trapped Djinn on her rings forever, Lobo attacked them and brought them to The Other who turned out to be Heretic, they fight and Heretic was defeated(? it's unclear, he just went poof gone), because Djinn still trapped on her ring TT members went to purgatory to save Djinn and heaven, Djinn went with Jakeem and said that she loved both Damian and Crush, everyone got a hug except Damian, everyone left Damian behind, then we had this mess.


Heavy, but not surprising, Dick can attest that being a TT leader is going througth a lot of s@#$, i'm sure he would be fine thougth, i really doubt that he is gonna be a villain for real.

----------


## Blue22

> Batman must grapple with the very citizens he has sworn to protect...while a familiar face looms large as a new threat on the horizon: Damian Wayne!





> With Damian Wayne renouncing his role as Robin and leaving the Teen Titans behind, Jon Kent returns from the future and the Legion of Super-Heroes to ask the remaining Titans some tough questions about his best friend. And when Superboy asks questions—he demands answers.




Tread lightly, DC. You took away my Titans (twice). You took away my Jon. You're technically already on strike three because of how incredibly lame Young Justice has been. Don't you do this to my last remaining son. He's already been hanging by a thread for about two yeas now. Don't you make Tomasi do this to him.

Gonna go ahead and get preemptively angry so that I'm more relieved when things turn out okay...that hasn't worked so far but damn it, I need *some* hope.

----------


## shadow6743

> the question is what HASN'T happened? Okay long story short, they brainwashed villains with Djinn's power, Djinn's ring got stolen, turns out Roundhouse stole it because he has grudge on Damian, he trapped Djinn on her rings forever, Lobo attacked them and brought them to The Other who turned out to be Heretic, they fight and Heretic was defeated(? it's unclear, he just went poof gone), because Djinn still trapped on her ring TT members went to purgatory to save Djinn and heaven, Djinn went with Jakeem and said that she loved both Damian and Crush, everyone got a hug except Damian, everyone left Damian behind, then we had this mess.


I love Damian but he threw himself out of getting a hug. He could have gotten one he chose not too. She said she loves both of them that does not mean Damian couldn't have gotten a hug. Damian when he is upset often does things like that.

----------


## Frontier

I think it's less he's a villain and more he's just more overt with his different methods and that puts him in opposition to Bruce.

I don't see Tomasi writing Damian as a villain.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I love Damian but he threw himself out of getting a hug. He could have gotten one he chose not too. She said she loves both of them that does not mean Damian couldn't have gotten a hug. Damian when he is upset often does things like that.


Yeah my bad, my choice of words are incorrect. I should write "everyone had a group hug except Damian, because he was already activated his Wayne brooding". Waynes really are troublesome creature...

----------


## shadow6743

Yes they are. They could get affection and love if they weren't so brooding.

----------


## Blue22

Hell, even when they do get (or even give) affection and love, they're still like that XD

----------


## Morgoth

To be honest, I don't understand, why everyone believe they're making Damian a villain, even Glass said they're not going to do this. They clearly want him as a anti-hero, DC editorial already made this clear, yeah, they really stubborn regarding their visions of characters (unlike Marvel). He'll probably be someone like Jason. But villain, not, I don't think so. It's way too controversial and useless move for them. And also, I think, they wouldn't let Tomasi write this story, if they would like to do something like that, they know, that he has different vision. Even with him being a threat for Bruce, it doesn't mean he will become a villain. 
Anyway, Damian gets Tomasi instead of Glass and Thompson. It's already best news for a long time. And it's going to be an interesting arc in 'Tec.

----------


## king81992

> I think Damian would hate both, if he stop being Robin I don't think he will keep a Batfamily name.
> Damian as Flame Bird: I want to belive


Well, no one has used the codename Flame Bird(I'm surprised it wasn't given to Tim)for years. It's too cool a name to remain abandoned for so long.

----------


## Frontier

> To be honest, I don't understand, why everyone believe they're making Damian a villain, even Glass said they're not going to do this. They clearly want him as a anti-hero, DC editorial already made this clear, *yeah, they really stubborn regarding their visions of characters (unlike Marvel).* He'll probably be someone like Jason. But villain, not, I don't think so. It's way too controversial and useless move for them. And also, I think, they wouldn't let Tomasi write this story, if they would like to do something like that, they know, that he has different vision. Even with him being a threat for Bruce, it doesn't mean he will become a villain. 
> Anyway, Damian gets Tomasi instead of Glass and Thompson. It's already best news for a long time. And it's going to be an interesting arc in 'Tec.


How is that unlike Marvel?

----------


## Blue22

> To be honest, I don't understand, why everyone believe they're making Damian a villain, even Glass said they're not going to do this. They clearly want him as a anti-hero, DC editorial already made this clear, yeah, they really stubborn regarding their visions of characters (unlike Marvel). He'll probably be someone like Jason. But villain, not, I don't think so. It's way too controversial and useless move for them. And also, I think, they wouldn't let Tomasi write this story, if they would like to do something like that, they know, that he has different vision. Even with him being a threat for Bruce, it doesn't mean he will become a villain. 
> Anyway, Damian gets Tomasi instead of Glass and Thompson. It's already best news for a long time. And it's going to be an interesting arc in 'Tec.


Honestly, for me, it just comes down to not really being satisfied with anything non-Super Sons related that Damian's been up to for the past couple of years. And seeing as all of that has been building up to....this, I'm not very confident that the ends will justify the means. Or that even the ends will be a very satisfying turn for the character. I never expected him to become a full on, mustache twirling villain. But I knew the road he'd go down in Teen Titans would lead to an outcome like this and it's just...not something that interests me.

----------


## Drako

> Well, no one has used the codename Flame Bird(I'm surprised it wasn't given to Tim)for years. It's too cool a name to remain abandoned for so long.


Hopefully is Flamebird and not Redbird.
Redbird is kinda connected to Jason and Flamebird would be an even better connection between him and Dick.

----------


## Korath

When he'll get his new name, I'd have liked to play on his frustration that Leviathan was taken from him somewhat and I'd have given him another Biblical name but sadly most seems taken.

----------


## Morgoth

> How is that unlike Marvel?


I went a little too far, probably, but in general they tend to try to get rid of things that meet strong resistance. There are, of course, exceptions like One More Day, but they are somehow more willing to following the audience's reaction.

----------


## Blue22

> I went a little too far, probably, but in general they tend to try to get rid of things that meet strong resistance. There are, of course, exceptions like One More Day, but they are somehow more willing to following the audience's reaction.


While that could sometimes work to the detriment of a story (though I cant think of too many instances in Marvel where it has) I'll take that over the other extreme. Something I've noticed DC really likes heading towards whenever Didio's in the driver's seat. And, as shown by the New 52, his influence is very hard to shake.

A good balance of doing your own thing while trying to keep audiences happy is nice. But....from what I've seen Marvel tends to be better at doing both...not always (lest we forget the unfortunate situations that the X-Men and the Fantastic Four were in) but...more often. Whereas sometimes it feels like DC will go out of it's way to do something *because* it'll piss off readers.

----------


## shadow6743

I wonder if Damian is going to the whole anti hero route will he go at it alone or will he have a partner. I think maybe he gets Djinn since she also left the Titans. Also, Djinn would give him some extra muscle and she would feel some responsibility for Damian going in this direction. She would probably go with him to keep him from going to far. Maya wouldn't since she is traveling the multiverse and wouldn't agree with his methods at all. Djinn isn't against using fear as shown with her interactions with Emiko and Joystick. Not to mention she isn't scared to stand up to Damian if she thinks he's wrong.

----------


## The tall man

How exactly is a 13 year old boy suppose to be a threat to Batman? What resources does he have that doesn't come from Bruce, Talia or Ra's? This story will require a lot of suspension of belief for anyone to think Damian is a viable/credible threat to Bruce.

----------


## Wingin' It

> How exactly is a 13 year old boy suppose to be a threat to Batman? What resources does he have that doesn't come from Bruce, Talia or Ra's? This story will require a lot of suspension of belief for anyone to think Damian is a viable/credible threat to Bruce.


Maybe Batman's "threat" will be Damian reminding him he needs to step up and be a father? 

....a girl can dream.....

----------


## dietrich

> How exactly is a 13 year old boy suppose to be a threat to Batman? What resources does he have that doesn't come from Bruce, Talia or Ra's? This story will require a lot of suspension of belief for anyone to think Damian is a viable/credible threat to Bruce.


Agreed. The only way he stands a chance is that Bruce would be reluctant to lay the smack down on his young kid. It's going to be more emotional than a physical battle.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Maybe Batman's "threat" will be Damian reminding him he needs to step up and be a father? 
> 
> ....a girl can dream.....


Every step forward one author makes on that, another takes 3 steps back.

----------


## Korath

> How exactly is a 13 year old boy suppose to be a threat to Batman? What resources does he have that doesn't come from Bruce, Talia or Ra's? This story will require a lot of suspension of belief for anyone to think Damian is a viable/credible threat to Bruce.


He doesn't need much resources, really.

Having one of his kids going rogue will hurt Batman no matter who it is, but Damian will be particularly scatting : he has to know he has been letting him down and that this lack of supervision led to Damian turning on him and his methods. And Damian has intimate knowledge of many of Batman's secrets. He knows who to threaten and how, how to escape from the eyes of the Bat-family and for a near fourteen year old he is extremely skilled and deadly, with far more practical knowledge in that kind of stuff. 

He doesn't need money to threaten Bruce. Him going to the jugular is already a dangerous blow to Batman, because it can basically upset any hope Bruce has that he can build a healthy family.

----------


## Frontier

> I went a little too far, probably, but in general they tend to try to get rid of things that meet strong resistance. There are, of course, exceptions like One More Day, but they are somehow more willing to following the audience's reaction.


If this were true they would've undone a lot of creative directions faster than they did.

----------


## Godlike13

Bruce barley gave Damian the benefit of the doubt to begin with, its Dick who his turn would really hurt.

----------


## Korath

> Bruce barley gave Damian the benefit of the doubt to begin with, its Dick who his turn would really hurt.


That's sadly quite true.

In truth, I wonder how Damian's turn will change the Bat-family. I can see a Jason who, going solo again, would returns to a more lethal methods to deal with crime, he's never been shy about killing people before. Just please, not insane trigger happy Red Hood from the Morrison era and I'll be happy.

Tim will obviously side with Bruce no matter what and will probably be quite happy to be Robin again. I could see Batwoman taking a somewhat supportive view of Damian's new approach, but only to a point. Batgirls of all stripes (Babs, Cass and Steph) will probably be against him. Huntress may side with him and Duke could go either ways I guess, considering the way he's been in BatO ?

But Dick will be devastated because all the hard work he did to help Damian will have been destroyed by Bruce's horrible ways to living with his son...

----------


## Dazai_Osamu

> I wonder if Damian is going to the whole anti hero route will he go at it alone or will he have a partner. I think maybe he gets Djinn since she also left the Titans. Also, Djinn would give him some extra muscle and she would feel some responsibility for Damian going in this direction. She would probably go with him to keep him from going to far. Maya wouldn't since she is traveling the multiverse and wouldn't agree with his methods at all. Djinn isn't against using fear as shown with her interactions with Emiko and Joystick. Not to mention she isn't scared to stand up to Damian if she thinks he's wrong.


Djinn doesn't feel responsible for Damian going this direction, in fact, it pissed me off a lot that she and Damian were together in the brainwashing but in the moment to take responsibility she blamed on Damian and it was almost literally 'Damian forced me to do it'.

I'm still salty about it.

Having Damian going rogue will hurt Batman for a little while until  DC will find a way to not make it Batman's fault, I mean Batman's mistake will be making Damian Robin when he shouldn't have done it because Damian was violent, his nurturing, the genetic manipulation used to create Damian, the Al Ghul's blood and Damian's choices, at the end DC will state it's Damian's fault because he couldn't follow Batman's path.

----------


## shadow6743

Dick would be devastated by Damian becoming an anti hero. While Barbara I imagine would be more upset with Bruce for his crap parenting leading Damian towards this. Jason probably wouldn't care and Tim as always will side with Bruce. Although, I also think Dick wouldn't be too happy with Bruce's parenting of Damian in his absence either.

----------


## shadow6743

> Djinn doesn't feel responsible for Damian going this direction, in fact, it pissed me off a lot that she and Damian were together in the brainwashing but in the moment to take responsibility she blamed on Damian and it was almost literally 'Damian forced me to do it'.
> 
> I'm still salty about it.


Yeah, I found that writing decision really weird. See also says that she loves Damian and Crush in the same issue. It just feels like Glass had her say that just to rush her out of the book so Thompson can easily do whatever he has planned. It went from you forced me to do this but I also love and care about you it was a strange choice to write Djinn that way.

----------


## The tall man

> He doesn't need much resources, really.
> 
> Having one of his kids going rogue will hurt Batman no matter who it is, but Damian will be particularly scatting : he has to know he has been letting him down and that this lack of supervision led to Damian turning on him and his methods. And Damian has intimate knowledge of many of Batman's secrets. He knows who to threaten and how, how to escape from the eyes of the Bat-family and for a near fourteen year old he is extremely skilled and deadly, with far more practical knowledge in that kind of stuff. 
> 
> He doesn't need money to threaten Bruce. Him going to the jugular is already a dangerous blow to Batman, because it can basically upset any hope Bruce has that he can build a healthy family.


Do you think there is a possibility that in his opposition to Bruce he pushes him to far, that he crosses a line that makes their strained relationship beyond repair? And how strongly will Bruce respond to whatever actions Damian takes. As skilled as Damian is he is not in Batman's league, but his one trump card may be Bruce's reluctance to "fight" his son. Perhaps others will have to fight on Bruce's behalf because he cannot bring himself to, especially a kid.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Do you think there is a possibility that in his opposition to Bruce he pushes him to far, that he crosses a line that makes their strained relationship beyond repair? And how strongly will Bruce respond to whatever actions Damian takes. As skilled as Damian is he is not in Batman's league, b*ut his one trump card may be Bruce's reluctance to "fight" his son.* Perhaps others will have to fight on Bruce's behalf because he cannot bring himself to, especially a kid.


Yeah, that one didn't go so well for Jason, remember? Granted, Jason was a bit older than Damian is now, but still.

----------


## Wingin' It

> Yeah, that one didn't go so well for Jason, remember? Granted, Jason was a bit older than Damian is now, but still.


Jason is a grown man. Damian is a child. There is certainly a difference here.

----------


## Digifiend

> I wonder if Damian is going to the whole anti hero route will he go at it alone or will he have a partner. I think maybe he gets Djinn since she also left the Titans. Also, Djinn would give him some extra muscle and she would feel some responsibility for Damian going in this direction. She would probably go with him to keep him from going to far. Maya wouldn't since she is traveling the multiverse and wouldn't agree with his methods at all. Djinn isn't against using fear as shown with her interactions with Emiko and Joystick. Not to mention she isn't scared to stand up to Damian if she thinks he's wrong.


Wasn't Djinn seen leaving with Jakeem Thunder? JSA seems like a more likely place for her to show up.

----------


## shadow6743

> Wasn't Djinn seen leaving with Jakeem Thunder? JSA seems like a more likely place for her to show up.


I forgot about that. Please let her become BFFs with Stargirl that is all I want now. I think she would fit in really well with the JSA.

----------


## Dazai_Osamu

Damian isn't a child anymore, he's a teen now, BTW how old was Jason in Under the Red Hood? Wasn't he an older teen? It's kinda difficult to know his age at that time. Batman will be a self-righteous ass, beating Damian and firing him are my expectations from him.

----------


## TheCape

> Damian isn't a child anymore, he's a teen now, BTW how old was Jason in Under the Red Hood? Wasn't he an older teen? It's kinda difficult to know his age at that time. Batman will be a self-righteous ass, beating Damian and firing him are my expectations from him.


It was never stated, but is most likely that he was 18 or 19.

----------


## Wingin' It

> Damian isn't a child anymore, he's a teen now, BTW how old was Jason in Under the Red Hood? Wasn't he an older teen? It's kinda difficult to know his age at that time. Batman will be a self-righteous ass, beating Damian and firing him are my expectations from him.


Jason was probably 19-21ish in age during UTH. And have you met 13-14 year olds? They're definitely still children. Too young to be living without adult supervision and guidance, anyway.

----------


## Ansa

> It sells well in trades and consistently sells well in digital. Damian fans may dislike the book but quite a few Teen Titans fans rather enjoy it. If your not reading for Damian your not really caring about how this book affects him at all. Also, it out sells the Titans digital comic that is 99 cents. Digital sales and trades are what matters for this book cause one Diamond is not a distributor anymore and comic shops are not open in a lot of places anyway.


Digital sales mean very little to the comic industry in general.
I really don't understand why you keep writing in this thread honestly. This is the Damian Wayne appreciation thread and you don't seem all that interested in him.
Also, this book is terrible even if we ignore Damian. It has one arc that it keeps repeating, the characters are inconsistent as hell, annoyingly dysfunctional and in my personal opinion the characters follow racist stereotypes.
If you want to enjoy a book like this, fine. But I really don't know what you see in it.

----------


## Ansa

> Damian isn't a child anymore, he's a teen now, BTW how old was Jason in Under the Red Hood? Wasn't he an older teen? It's kinda difficult to know his age at that time. Batman will be a self-righteous ass, beating Damian and firing him are my expectations from him.


I've worked with 12-14 year olds, they are children. There is a reason you're a minor until the age of 18 in most western countries.
Teenagers are children. Even if they don't want to hear it.

----------


## Ansa

> That's because the book is doing better and is more well-liked and enjoyed then the popular opinion and narrative of this particular thread would suggest.


Sales have tanked since December.
Selling only 17-16k copies for several months straight isn't popular. Nightwing as Ric sold better.

----------


## Ansa

> Honestly, for me, it just comes down to not really being satisfied with anything non-Super Sons related that Damian's been up to for the past couple of years. And seeing as all of that has been building up to....this, I'm not very confident that the ends will justify the means. Or that even the ends will be a very satisfying turn for the character. I never expected him to become a full on, mustache twirling villain. But I knew the road he'd go down in Teen Titans would lead to an outcome like this and it's just...not something that interests me.


Same. Expected this. Still hate it.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> While I don't disdain Jon and Damian as a duo, I wonder how many realize the parallels between that and Colin Wilkes (who, in many respects, was both more street smart and intuitive than Jon, yet also more naive, innocent, and hopefully optimistic, given his circumstances, then Jon)? Like Maya Ducard and Sorin, Colin was an OG bestie to Damian well before Jon. Just as I miss Maya and Sorin, I also miss Colin. (Maps on the side was also cool/cute and missed.)
> 
> Korath, if you recall Colin, what did you think about him and his relationship with Damian? Given your misgivings with Damian's typical portrayal with Jon, what was/is your opinion regarding Damian and Colin?


I used to shipp Damian and Colin (even I read not much), but so I started to like Damijon so I forgot a lot about colin.
We talk about the TT dream team: Dami, Jon, Maya, the blonde girl that I don't remember the name, I liked the boy of Robin: son of Batman, his dad was a villain and having Maps would make the team so much funny. She is in my TT dream team now. 3 boys, 3 girls, different ethnic, unique personalities, different pasts, greaaattt power no power combination.
I just don't know if TT can have a member without superpowers beside Robin, don't remember any version with this, but they could just have another name.

----------


## shadow6743

> Sales have tanked since December.
> Selling only 17-16k copies for several months straight isn't popular. Nightwing as Ric sold better.


Can we stop using Diamond as the standard for comics and just single issues? If that's the case then why isn't Nightwing or Batgirl or or Aquaman or Deathstroke considered not popular. Also what about books like Ms. Marvel or Squirrel Girl. Both would not be considered popular according to this idea. Trades sales matter much more and a book like Teen Titans consistently sells well in trade same as Nightwing, Batgirl and Red Hood. In fact, Red Hood the Outlaw newest volume was in the top 100 for comics on Amazon.  

Diamond sales have never told the whole story and they especially don't matter now because DC's not using them. Also most people don't have comic shops near them so they buy books digitally and we don't have the digital numbers but we do know what books sell the best when they come out. Teen Titans is consistently in the top 30. When people have access to these books they buy them simple as that trades matter more than single issues and I've always felt that way. This is why I always hated the diamond comic book specialty store distribution model because it gives a false impression.  if we just went by Diamond numbers the only popular book is Batman.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> This is Batman we're talking about. His communication skills are below zero.


But he has a logical motive for thinking Arkham would be good? Not in a Bruce-Fhather way, but like Batman-Hero way I don't know, I can't remember anybody that get better going to Arkham, but when I see something that makes no sense to me I ask because probably this did happened and I just don't read enough to saw. Really, for me Arkham have -5% of prisoners reintegrate in society: 100 bad guys go in, 105 bad guys go out. Whaat???

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Yes they are. They could get affection and love if they weren't so brooding.��


But Damian was becoming open for Djinn, he talked with her, telled his identity, let her touch his face and was going to kiss her. He just got way for a good by hug, " it's not you it's me, byyeeee ". Rejection is the opposite of affection...

----------


## Blue22

> Damian isn't a child anymore, he's a teen now, BTW how old was Jason in Under the Red Hood? Wasn't he an older teen? It's kinda difficult to know his age at that time. Batman will be a self-righteous ass, beating Damian and firing him are my expectations from him.


I wouldn't call 13 "not a child anymore". Or 14 for that matter....Hell there are still some 18 year olds that I'd call kids. 

As Damian has already shown, you don't turn just 13 and then suddenly the puberty switch activates, transforming you into a young adult. He is still very much a kid, in both his appearance and his state of mind. He's a shining example of a child character who's been force to grow up too soon but is still a child.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Hopefully is Flamebird and not Redbird.
> Redbird is kinda connected to Jason and Flamebird would be an even better connection between him and Dick.


Tim will became FLAME ROBIN.


I know Damian as flame bird will not happen, but I can't stop thinking how much I would like it since nobody know what will happen after I Was Robin. The best moment for Dream is now. XD

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I wouldn't call 13 "not a child anymore". Or 14 for that matter....Hell there are still some 18 year olds that I'd call kids. 
> 
> As Damian has already shown, you don't turn just 13 and then suddenly the puberty switch activates, transforming you into a young adult. He is still very much a kid. And, quite frankly, he acts like it.


I love the way Damian has knowledge, training, capacity, yada yada yada things better than almost all adults, but still is "I didn't like this Red Hood toy, but it is mine! I am not going to give or share with anyone", "I am NOT a kid anymore!" "Er uhn .. kiss, I don--",

----------


## Light of Justice

> But he has a logical motive for thinking Arkham would be good? Not in a Bruce-Fhather way, but like Batman-Hero way I don't know, I can't remember anybody that get better going to Arkham, but when I see something that makes no sense to me I ask because probably this did happened and I just don't read enough to saw. Really, for me Arkham have -5% of prisoners reintegrate in society: 100 bad guys go in, 105 bad guys go out. Whaat???


Honestly I also wonder why Arkham Asylum is still exist, and why there are people whose willing to work on there. That place sounds like some kind of hell for therapists. I mean, every time break-outs are happened, therapists will be villain's first victim, and Harley Quinn is the prime example of 'works go wrong'. 



Perhaps someone as pure as him who can survive on Arkham Asylum. Wait no, not really, Joker killed him. 
Sigh, if only death-sentence is exist on DC universe..

----------


## redmax99

> Damian isn't a child anymore, he's a teen now, BTW how old was Jason in Under the Red Hood? Wasn't he an older teen? It's kinda difficult to know his age at that time. Batman will be a self-righteous ass, beating Damian and firing him are my expectations from him.


he was 18 stated in war games

----------


## Restingvoice

> Honestly I also wonder why Arkham Asylum is still exist, and why there are people whose willing to work on there. That place sounds like some kind of hell for therapists. I mean, every time break-outs are happened, therapists will be villain's first victim, and Harley Quinn is the prime example of 'works go wrong'. 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps someone as pure as him who can survive on Arkham Asylum. Wait no, not really, Joker killed him. 
> Sigh, if only death-sentence is exist on DC universe..


The building and everything is funded by Bruce, but the staffs we don't know

What we do know is there's no shortage of people underestimating Arkham inmates coming from out of town. The reporter that wanted to interview Joker and ended up terrorized for example. So maybe they got their staff from out of town or out of the country.

Within Gotham itself, there are always people like Harley or Punchline, so maybe because they came from Gotham and knows these people since they were children they think they have a better chance.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I think DC scripts have too much holes, because this the live-action movies are so problematic. In comics they can more or less change a character much faster. If Bruce was a Father like he is in movies, everybody would hate him. And Bruce is always in  donation events and parties for charity, how can Arkham, orphanage, street childs and other things is Gotham don't get better? I think DC could resolve some problems and make anothers because looks like Batman and Bruce always invest in the same things but don't worth it, make his action looks pointless.

I have one more question, I almost don't remember Beyond Batman, but I have a flash that the builds was white, did Bruce reformed the city? I also remember there was not a big villain (? Did Gotham became better?

----------


## dietrich

> Digital sales mean very little to the comic industry in general.
> I really don't understand why you keep writing in this thread honestly. This is the Damian Wayne appreciation thread and you don't seem all that interested in him.
> Also, this book is terrible even if we ignore Damian. It has one arc that it keeps repeating, the characters are inconsistent as hell, annoyingly dysfunctional and in my personal opinion the characters follow racist stereotypes.
> If you want to enjoy a book like this, fine. But I really don't know what you see in it.


This is the Damian appreciation thread but that doesn't mean that views/opinions are censored. Damian fans are allowed to share their thoughts on what's going on with him. Good or Bad. Popular or unpopular.

Fans should never be made to feel unwelcome even if you don't share their views. This shouldn't be an echo chamber and we are not here to police comments [so long as they are not just people coming in insulting the character]

You don't have to know what they enjoy in a book or an arc but you do have to respect that those are their feelings.
How arrogant to claim a fan isn't interested in a character when you don't know them.

Damian and his fans get enough of a hard time without us fighting amongst ourselves.

----------


## dietrich

Some books do better digitally eg Injustice. One of DC's best seller and it was thanks to digital sales. 


Re Colin
I liked Colin a lot. Loved his friendship with Damian. Damian reached out to him showing that he is capable of forming relationships and I hated how Supersons regressed Damian to not only never having friends but incapable of forming relationships.

Damian is emotionally stunned yeah but he's capable of making friends and sustaining relationships

----------


## dietrich

> Djinn doesn't feel responsible for Damian going this direction, in fact, it pissed me off a lot that she and Damian were together in the brainwashing but in the moment to take responsibility she blamed on Damian and it was almost literally 'Damian forced me to do it'.
> 
> I'm still salty about it.
> 
> Having Damian going rogue will hurt Batman for a little while until  DC will find a way to not make it Batman's fault, I mean Batman's mistake will be making Damian Robin when he shouldn't have done it because Damian was violent, his nurturing, the genetic manipulation used to create Damian, the Al Ghul's blood and Damian's choices, at the end DC will state it's Damian's fault because he couldn't follow Batman's path.


What about the Wayne blood?
What about Batman conditioning and manipulation?
Batman is violent and nurtures his kids to accept and use violence as a positive.

The Al Ghul Blood! because we know that all kids of bad guys end up bad. Like they are somehow tainted.

Damian and Bruce will be at odds for a short while then it'll be back to them being fine. 

The thing that makes Damian different and unique is that he isn't like the other Robins. That is his appeal. He never has been. That potential for angst and conflict is what makes him different from the two other options that were rejected when he died.

It's what gives him more story potential and why writers like to use him. You can do the regular Dynamic duo with him and you can explore darker unconventional stories thanks to his baggage

----------


## ChangingStation

> What about the Wayne blood?
> What about Batman conditioning and manipulation?
> Batman is violent and nurtures his kids to accept and use violence as a positive.
> 
> The Al Ghul Blood! because we know that all kids of bad guys end up bad. Like they are somehow tainted.
> 
> Damian and Bruce will be at odds for a short while then it'll be back to them being fine. 
> 
> The thing that makes Damian different and unique is that he isn't like the other Robins. That is his appeal. He never has been. That potential for angst and conflict is what makes him different from the two other options that were rejected when he died.
> ...


... Eh, I don't think the traditional Dynamic Duo works with Damian and Bruce. With Damian and Dick, yes. But not Damian and Bruce. 

And from what I know, there were corporate reasons for those two options not working out, not helped by Snyder having issues with the whole concept of Robin. Look at We are Robin for evidence of that.

----------


## Konja7

> What about the Wayne blood?
> What about Batman conditioning and manipulation?
> Batman is violent and nurtures his kids to accept and use violence as a positive.
> 
> The Al Ghul Blood! because we know that all kids of bad guys end up bad. Like they are somehow tainted.
> 
> Damian and Bruce will be at odds for a short while then it'll be back to them being fine. 
> 
> The thing that makes Damian different and unique is that he isn't like the other Robins. That is his appeal. He never has been. That potential for angst and conflict is what makes him different from the two other options that were rejected when he died.
> ...


What where the two options rejcted when he died?

I read there were plans that Duke would become Robin, but WB wants Damian (due to the DCAU).

----------


## Mosameen

IMO Damian problem is Tim Drake. Damian character is very good to expand on in many ways. But to develop him further they have to develop Tim too. Damain can't be more than Robin without Tim finding his way out of Robin's mantle shadow

----------


## Konja7

> IMO Damian problem is Tim Drake. Damian character is very good to expand on in many ways. But to develop him further they have to develop Tim too. Damain can't be more than Robin without Tim finding his way out of Robin's mantle shadow


I don't think Tim is the biggest problem. After all, DC has relegated Tim a lot in the past.

I think his biggest difficulty to grow as a character is that he is typecast in a role (the troubled boy). It is a role from which he cannot fully grow because his conflicting personality is part of his character's appeal.

----------


## Konja7

> ... Eh, I don't think the traditional Dynamic Duo works with Damian and Bruce. With Damian and Dick, yes. But not Damian and Bruce. 
> 
> And from what I know, there were corporate reasons for those two options not working out, not helped by Snyder having issues with the whole concept of Robin. Look at We are Robin for evidence of that.


Yeah. The problem is that Bruce is Batman now, so Damian as Robin needs to work with him.

To be fair, I think Damian works better as a dynamic duo for Bruce/Batman than Tim, the relation father-son is still pretty interesting. Although I think a character like Stephanie will probably works better as part of a dynamic duo with Bruce.

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## Rebeca Armus

> Yeah. The problem is that Bruce is Batman now, so Damian as Robin needs to work with him.
> 
> To be fair, I think Damian works better as a dynamic duo for Bruce/Batman than Tim, the relation father-son is still pretty interesting. Although I think a character like Stephanie will probably works better as part of a dynamic duo with Bruce.


You can Have Batman, Damian and Stephanie as the dynamic duo in Dceased now X9

About the normal issues, After Damian came back from death I was share that he and Bruce would became more close and have a more fluffy relationship, like spending more time together or asking some times "how are you", I was being realistic, I knew Bruce and Damian would not have a big affection relationship, but Damian died for 1 year and now Bruce could hold him again, and in the next issue, when Damian and Bruce acted like this never happened I was heart broke.

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## dietrich

> ... Eh, I don't think the traditional Dynamic Duo works with Damian and Bruce. With Damian and Dick, yes. But not Damian and Bruce. 
> 
> And from what I know, there were corporate reasons for those two options not working out, not helped by Snyder having issues with the whole concept of Robin. Look at We are Robin for evidence of that.


It does work and we saw it work in the Batman/TMNT multi series by Tynion, Tomasi's Tec, Taylors Tec,  The scooby Apocalypse title, Synder's Batman and even Priest's Deathstroke.

So it not only works but we've seen it handled by various writers.

Synder had issues with Robin but he also had planned for Duke to become Robin backed by DC until WB stepped in.

Synder afterall was the one who revealed that WB was the reason why Damian wasn't replaced

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## dietrich

> Yeah. The problem is that Bruce is Batman now, so Damian as Robin needs to work with him.
> 
> To be fair, I think Damian works better as a dynamic duo for Bruce/Batman than Tim, the relation father-son is still pretty interesting. Although I think a character like Stephanie will probably works better as part of a dynamic duo with Bruce.


The problem is that people look at Tomasi's Batman and Robin and expect it to be a Batman and Robin book when in reality it is a father and son getting to know each other not as work partners but as family.

Don't know how some can still say that Bruce and Damian don't work when we've had so many examples of them working. Are people just not reading these books? The series by Tynion I thought most fans have read by now.

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## dietrich

Damian's problem is his age until he matures a bit he can't move beyond Robin. Even now that he's headed down a dark path it isn't sustainable because he is a minor [not to mention that is Jason's thing. Bruce can't really have a 13 year old running amok for too long]

Tim's lack of progress both in age and identity is an obstacle but I feel Damian's age is more of the issue. Though Damian can't get older without Tim getting older. Since Tim's story hinges on Jason's death Damian can't jump him either. 

Actually Damian has two problems

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## ChangingStation

That's just it though, we don't see them work together enough in the main books. They work together in other books like Deathstroke, and occasionally in events like City of Bane, but mostly Damian has been confined to Teen Titans and Barman to his own books with any interactions being solos or in groups mostly.

That's been a problem for most of the Batfamily.

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## Rebeca Armus

I agree one of the many charismas of Batman and Robin with Bruce and Damian is that don't working well, this is the writer points. But readers killed Jason because of this, so...
I saw the first Jason origin as Robin was parents being assassinate in the circle they all work together, how lazy could this be? I don't like Tim too much, but what would be the sense if he was a copy of Dick or Jason? If you change a character, they need to be different. Because this Bat-Bros (or bat-siblins) are so loved, this looks more like a family than having 4 Dicks and 4 Tims how looks like some peoples want.
I like the idea of Helena in main timeline, it's knew, we can't know what will happen just like Damian.
I don't like re-makes...

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## Jackalope89

> I agree one of the many charismas of Batman and Robin with Bruce and Damian is that don't working well, this is the writer points. But readers killed Jason because of this, so...
> *I saw the first Jason origin as Robin was parents being assassinate in the circle they all work together, how lazy could this be?* I don't like Tim too much, but what would be the sense if he was a copy of Dick or Jason? If you change a character, they need to be different. Because this Bat-Bros (or bat-siblins) are so loved, this looks more like a family than having 4 Dicks and 4 Tims how looks like some peoples want.
> I like the idea of Helena in main timeline, it's knew, we can't know what will happen just like Damian.
> I don't like re-makes...


That's why most people like Jason's second origin far better. Its unique, it gives light to part of Gotham, and shows that Jason has the balls to steal the wheels from the Batmobile as a 12 year old when most grown men are too afraid to mention him half the time.

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## Ansa

> This is the Damian appreciation thread but that doesn't mean that views/opinions are censored. Damian fans are allowed to share their thoughts on what's going on with him. Good or Bad. Popular or unpopular.
> 
> Fans should never be made to feel unwelcome even if you don't share their views. This shouldn't be an echo chamber and we are not here to police comments [so long as they are not just people coming in insulting the character]
> 
> You don't have to know what they enjoy in a book or an arc but you do have to respect that those are their feelings.
> How arrogant to claim a fan isn't interested in a character when you don't know them.
> 
> Damian and his fans get enough of a hard time without us fighting amongst ourselves.


I was simply confused why they came to the Damian Wayne appreciation thread when they didn't seem interested in him. I don't see how it's my fault they got pissy. I don't have much patience for melodramatic people.
So if they want to leave because of something like this they can leave.
I didn't insult or bully them.
So don't tell me how to act.

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## Ansa

> What about the Wayne blood?
> What about Batman conditioning and manipulation?
> Batman is violent and nurtures his kids to accept and use violence as a positive.
> 
> The Al Ghul Blood! because we know that all kids of bad guys end up bad. Like they are somehow tainted.
> 
> Damian and Bruce will be at odds for a short while then it'll be back to them being fine. 
> 
> The thing that makes Damian different and unique is that he isn't like the other Robins. That is his appeal. He never has been. That potential for angst and conflict is what makes him different from the two other options that were rejected when he died.
> ...


Teen Titans is already positioning Bruce as the concerned father and don't talk about the long neglect that has been going on. So I don't expect them to be fair here.
Damian's legitimate problems with Bruce's methods will probably be brushed off with Damian being depicted as evil. He will be compared to Ra's al Ghul and with that all discussion about who is wrong and who is right in this would be over.
DC always had the tendency to blame all of Damian's bad traits on the al Ghuls and attribute everything good about him to Bruce.

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## Blue22

And I really hope they don't go that route where Damian is apparently just always destined to be this way because of his mother's side. Not when his current little rebellious streak is Bruce's fault. Sure he's trying now that Damian might have finally gone off the deep end, but where was he to prevent all this before it happened? Oh right. Losing his mind over a cat. 

If they're gonna go through with this, they need to not frame it like Bruce is completely blameless.

----------


## Morgoth

Just for reference - Tomasi seemed to say that he was supposed to leave 'Tec after the Joker War, then suddenly for some reason they decided to leave him, in January he switches to "something else".
It seems like Damian's return is the reason why he stayed, this arc will probably be going until January. And given that the current arch is written by a completely different editorial group, and other people are doing it in 'Tec, I still make the assumption that Tomasi was asked to somehow change what is happening with Damian in the other direction. Otherwise, it somehow doesn't make much sense in all of this, everyone knows that he has a different look at the character, if DC really needed a villain or Punisher-type character, they would have called someone like Priest for this, that would be more logical.

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## The tall man

It's storylines like this that makes me wish DC had pulled the trigger in Priest's Deathstroke v Batman and decided that Damian wasn't Bruce's son after all. It's clearly not a good relationship for either one and just makes them look bad, particularly Bruce. He is a character unlike Clark who cearly wasn't meant to be a father, it's not a slight against him just that some people are not cut out to be a parent. The man has his mission, its been the one driving and most important thing in his life, the core aspect of his character. Why did anyone think it was a good idea to saddle him with a young kid and expect he would change into some doting father? It's not his character's makeup and it would change what makes him Batman. But Damian fans don't want that, they like his connections to the bat mythos, the "Son of Batman" moniker all the while railing at Bruce for his treatment or lack thereof of Damian. Batman is the foundation and central point of the bat franchise, it's his mythos; you cannot expect his whole character to change for the sake of one character. It's not Bruce who has to change, it's Damian. This is why I say DC should have said actually no Bruce is not the father. Maybe make it Slade or some other person but Damian fans fear that would render Damian irrelevant or consigned to limbo if he is removed from the family. But as it stands he is Bruce's son so the issue going forward is how will that relationship evolve? I for one don't see Bruce becoming some doting, little league coaching dad. He still has his mission and Damian will have to fit into that dynamic as best he can. And Damian fans will have to accept that or just continue to post in frustration at Bruce's behavior, all the while knowing he will not and cannot change. To do so would not be true to his character, he is who he is. Some like me like and accept that, others Damian fans including does not.

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## Jackalope89

> It's storylines like this that makes me wish DC had pulled the trigger in Priest's Deathstroke v Batman and decided that Damian wasn't Bruce's son after all. It's clearly not a good relationship for either one and just makes them look bad, particularly Bruce. He is a character unlike Clark who cearly wasn't meant to be a father, it's not a slight against him just that some people are not cut out to be a parent. The man has his mission, its been the one driving and most important thing in his life, the core aspect of his character. Why did anyone think it was a good idea to saddle him with a young kid and expect he would change into some doting father? It's not his character's makeup and it would change what makes him Batman. But Damian fans don't want that, they like his connections to the bat mythos, the "Son of Batman" moniker all the while railing at Bruce for his treatment or lack thereof of Damian. Batman is the foundation and central point of the bat franchise, it's his mythos; you cannot expect his whole character to change for the sake of one character. It's not Bruce who has to change, it's Damian. This is why I say DC should have said actually no Bruce is not the father. Maybe make it Slade or some other person but Damian fans fear that would render Damian irrelevant or consigned to limbo if he is removed from the family. But as it stands he is Bruce's son so the issue going forward is how will that relationship evolve? I for one don't see Bruce becoming some doting, little league coaching dad. He still has his mission and Damian will have to fit into that dynamic as best he can. And Damian fans will have to accept that or just continue to post in frustration at Bruce's behavior, all the while knowing he will not and cannot change. To do so would not be true to his character, he is who he is. Some like me like and accept that, others Damian fans including does not.


Uh, Damian being Slade Wilson's son isn't better by any means. 

That aside, the main issue is that once upon a time, Bruce was a good father to both Dick and Jason. Then they decided to keep making Bruce darker, and well, here we are.

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## ChangingStation

> Uh, Damian being Slade Wilson's son isn't better by any means. 
> 
> That aside, the main issue is that once upon a time, Bruce was a good father to both Dick and Jason. Then they decided to keep making Bruce darker, and well, here we are.


To be fair, he started out good with Tim, but it soon went downhill.

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## Rebeca Armus

> It's storylines like this that makes me wish DC had pulled the trigger in Priest's Deathstroke v Batman and decided that Damian wasn't Bruce's son after all. It's clearly not a good relationship for either one and just makes them look bad, particularly Bruce. He is a character unlike Clark who cearly wasn't meant to be a father, it's not a slight against him just that some people are not cut out to be a parent. The man has his mission, its been the one driving and most important thing in his life, the core aspect of his character. Why did anyone think it was a good idea to saddle him with a young kid and expect he would change into some doting father? It's not his character's makeup and it would change what makes him Batman. But Damian fans don't want that, they like his connections to the bat mythos, the "Son of Batman" moniker all the while railing at Bruce for his treatment or lack thereof of Damian. Batman is the foundation and central point of the bat franchise, it's his mythos; you cannot expect his whole character to change for the sake of one character. It's not Bruce who has to change, it's Damian. This is why I say DC should have said actually no Bruce is not the father. Maybe make it Slade or some other person but Damian fans fear that would render Damian irrelevant or consigned to limbo if he is removed from the family. But as it stands he is Bruce's son so the issue going forward is how will that relationship evolve? I for one don't see Bruce becoming some doting, little league coaching dad. He still has his mission and Damian will have to fit into that dynamic as best he can. And Damian fans will have to accept that or just continue to post in frustration at Bruce's behavior, all the while knowing he will not and cannot change. To do so would not be true to his character, he is who he is. Some like me like and accept that, others Damian fans including does not.


I just like to see characters I like being happy, I don't think Damian can feel good about himself with how the story is going. 
For me Bruce don't need to became a better father, since Damian find a way he can be ok with. Dick got way from Batman, became himself, he do things how he believe, keept the family circle bond, found a job he wanted and change by him and stoped to argue with Bruce like when he was 18; Jason have duo that really likes and like him back, he is became less crazy and forgiving Bruce and Tim, like, not 100% but progressing; Tim can't find himself because he still just want to be what Batman wants, and since he is pretty good in this, he don't know what he wants, he would do whatever Bruce wants and feel like he decided it.

I think Damian would be sadder being Deathstroke Son, Deathstroke is a terrible father too. Also the progresses of the 4 are linked by age. Damian and Batman will keep this dinamic while Damian needs his father love and approval, when he feel better about himself without this he will not feel so awful for don't be what he father wants.
SOOOOO I can accept Bruce don't being a gooood father, but this need to have limits, no good father is ok, terrible father and terrible hero is too much. Limits, limits. so every time Bruce cross this limit with any of the Robins I will always be "oohhh, nooo, my babies, Bruce is being mean again, hate him, why he can't be better T^T ?!"

Batfamily is huge now too, this Batman "I work alone" don't work anymore, so the character need to have a change being more sociable, he was before before before, ins't? He was cutter with Dick and Barbara, isn't? Looks like  the more batfamily increase more the dc wants to make him alone.

I remember a comic he lets Dick alone in a part of batcave Dick don't know, and Dick says "here has no food" and Bruce said "There is RATS here, don't?" and go way. Noooooo why Bruce?? My baaabbyyyy!!! Dick wans't 18 yeat, a hero should not do this kind of things even more with his adooorable sidekick *Alfred helped Dick in the night.
80% of you said is rigth about we fan wanting Bruce changes XD just my opinion.

If Damian was Deathstroke's son how would you think the storie would continue?

oh! In more than one place I read of the idea Damian being Jason Todd's Son XD I would buy a parallelal world comic with this plot just for see what would happen, God, would be son funny.

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## Rebeca Armus



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## TheCape

> To be fair, he started out good with Tim, but it soon went downhill.


Yeah, after Zero Hour Bruce decided that he needed to scare his allies as much as his enemies and from that point on BatJerk was born.

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## Yennefer

A general post for what I read since page 180: 

The main and original batman mythos includes Bruce being a father as a main part of his character. He wasn't "The Batman" but rather "Batman" in the dynamic duo. So the son was pretty important. Also, Bruce ADOPTED his first son... Meaning that it was something HE wanted and decided from the one side... And from the other, this made clear that Batman's first writers wanted him a father. 
The reason why this changed over the years is because DC believed that fans were bored of this family side of him and thus, as many said as well, made him darker. The problem is that the time they decided that, batfamily already had many members... So Bruce's permanent dark side is ill-timed and DC's fault.

As far as Damian is concerned.... DC should have either killed him off when he was first introduced OR keep him and work his character and his relationships in the right way.
So, seeing how his relationship with Bruce has gone, from their meeting to his death and up until today, is frustrating. It is not the fans not understanding the mythos and the main character, it is DC messing it up over and over again in a way that simply doesn't make sense to create drama. 
To put an example... Is it logical to have a child back from death, your only biological child at that, which -you know- that has suffered in the hands of his prior family and neglect it at 13? No.
Is it logical for any parent to neglect their child in general? No.
It is all choices and consequences... 
DC decided that Damian was to be in this word. So they had to make him work. All this is just a half-completed job. And this is for any of the batkids. If they don't want Batman a father, because it doesn't suit his character and his nature is not that, then they should wipe out all of his children from the DCU. 

Also... I believe Damian's main main main problem is that he is Bruce's biological son. The natural continuation. And a character with a huge potential. If he was developed appropriately, as many of you said, he would surpass DC's main character.

And OUR main problem is that Batman is a story that has been around for 80 years and more to come. Stories start to end at some point and when they don't, they become problematic. Writers experiment, shock, repeat, destroy and create things all the time to draw attention to a 80yo character. It is natural to feel frustrated when you read it for decades... Even I feel frustrated and I am not in the comic world for more than 2 years...Anyways.

Also, miss @Rebecca Armus I ADORE your Damian Wayne art! It's the cutest Damian so far and you often hit at the center with your themes!! (The leaf and Talia etc).

Also, I am back. Hi!

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## AmiMizuno

The thing is in a sense. Dick is a better father than Bruce is. In other words, it seems like a repeat. Damian is like the adopted son of Dick.

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## Rebeca Armus

> A general post for what I read since page 180: 
> 
> The main and original batman mythos includes Bruce being a father as a main part of his character. He wasn't "The Batman" but rather "Batman" in the dynamic duo. So the son was pretty important. Also, Bruce ADOPTED his first son... Meaning that it was something HE wanted and decided from the one side... And from the other, this made clear that Batman's first writers wanted him a father. 
> The reason why this changed over the years is because DC believed that fans were bored of this family side of him and thus, as many said as well, made him darker. The problem is that the time they decided that, batfamily already had many members... So Bruce's permanent dark side is ill-timed and DC's fault.
> 
> As far as Damian is concerned.... DC should have either killed him off when he was first introduced OR keep him and work his character and his relationships in the right way.
> So, seeing how his relationship with Bruce has gone, from their meeting to his death and up until today, is frustrating. It is not the fans not understanding the mythos and the main character, it is DC messing it up over and over again in a way that simply doesn't make sense to create drama. 
> To put an example... Is it logical to have a child back from death, your only biological child at that, which -you know- that has suffered in the hands of his prior family and neglect it at 13? No.
> Is it logical for any parent to neglect their child in general? No.
> ...


Bruce take childs from street for leave them alone, and, yeah, if Damian was put in the comic they need to deal with it in a satisfaction way.
Second:
Hihihihihi stoooopppppp.
Thanks, I love draw Damian, just help me to deal with things, and looks like help other persons too. This is all I want <3 from my heart for your heart  :Smile: 

Welcome back  :Smile: 

*oh, here my names have just one "c", since in foreign this is almost always "Rebecca" everybody in internet write my name wrong, but no problemo.

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## Konja7

In this thread, I've seen it mentioned that if DC didn't want to use Damian and develop his relationship with Bruce properly, DC should have killed him.

I guess that's the reason why DC doesn't originally plan to bring Damian back to life (although he is a pretty popular character), they don't want Bruce to have a biological son. It was WB who wants Damian alive due to the DCAU.

Now, I'm worried that the DCAU where Damian was so prominent has been retconned.

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## Fergus

> A general post for what I read since page 180: 
> 
> The main and original batman mythos includes Bruce being a father as a main part of his character. He wasn't "The Batman" but rather "Batman" in the dynamic duo. So the son was pretty important. Also, Bruce ADOPTED his first son... Meaning that it was something HE wanted and decided from the one side... And from the other, this made clear that Batman's first writers wanted him a father. 
> The reason why this changed over the years is because DC believed that fans were bored of this family side of him and thus, as many said as well, made him darker. The problem is that the time they decided that, batfamily already had many members... So Bruce's permanent dark side is ill-timed and DC's fault.
> 
> As far as Damian is concerned.... DC should have either killed him off when he was first introduced OR keep him and work his character and his relationships in the right way.
> So, seeing how his relationship with Bruce has gone, from their meeting to his death and up until today, is frustrating. It is not the fans not understanding the mythos and the main character, it is DC messing it up over and over again in a way that simply doesn't make sense to create drama. 
> To put an example... Is it logical to have a child back from death, your only biological child at that, which -you know- that has suffered in the hands of his prior family and neglect it at 13? No.
> Is it logical for any parent to neglect their child in general? No.
> ...


Batman was always The Batman.
Robin's introduction had nothing to do the writers. It was a business decision. Made by the powers and the reason wasn't because they wanted Batman to be a father they just needed a way to get kids reading Batman which at the time wasn't the highly popular title he is today.

It was marketing and Business not something that was an organic part of the character concept.

Robin's introduction worked. Increasing sales by 40% but even then their relationship wasn't father and son. 

Jason was the first to be adopted and that was only introduced after his death. This was more than 40 years after Batman's creation and just before DC went ahead with the big move of separating the Dynamic Duo with the introduction of the Robin solo. From then on Robin stopped being a regular on the Batman titles.

Batman was not created or designed to be a father. DC has had no interest in pushing him as such in a serious way and their plans for the Dynamic Duo isn't together which is why Tim was introduced.

The family and Robin are spin-offs to make more money for DC. They are extensions of the bat brand. Introduced to expand the reach of the Batman

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## Fergus

> In this thread, I've seen it mentioned that if DC didn't want to use Damian and develop his relationship with Bruce properly, DC should have killed him.
> 
> I guess that's the reason why DC doesn't originally plan to bring Damian back to life (although he is a pretty popular character), they don't want Bruce to have a biological son. It was WB who wants Damian alive due to the DCAU.
> 
> Now, I'm worried that the DCAU where Damian was so prominent has been retconned.


Damian is also prominent in the games, the non shared Universe movies, TV shows. The writers for the Harley Quinn show just had an AMA on Reddit [5 days ago] and talked about their plans for season 3 which includes a more Damian despite his Voice's busy schedule.

Damian and Babs are the two Bat kids that have been scripted into season 3.

DC never wanted Bruce to have a biological kid and Morrison didn't plan for Damian to stick around. We know this and Morrison himself in an interview chuckled at the fact the little bugger stuck around causing problems for DC [his own words]

DC however doesn't make the rules doubly so now that AT&T is in charge and changes are being made to increase synergy across mediums.

DC might not have planned for Damian to be a permanent feature but they are stuck with him

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## Morgoth

> I guess that's the reason why DC doesn't originally plan to bring Damian back to life (*although he is a pretty popular character*), they don't want Bruce to have a biological son. It was WB who wants Damian alive due to the DCAU.


Regarding their plans, Damian not immediately became popular. He was and probably still remains one of the most hated Batfamily members, at least at that point, for various reasons, starting with his behavior and ending with the fact that he essentially kicked Tim out of the lead roles, and given how many years he was Robin and how fans loved him, I think you understand how much they hated him then. They wanted to kill him not only because they think that Bruce shouldn't have a child, he was just hated character, so they didn't see any reason to keep him alive and Morrison just had that in mind for years. But during his run, and then Tomasi's, he's got lots of fans, B&R was an absolute success, so eventually they brought him back. And for WB, Damian is easier to sell. As I understand it, they basically have a certain problem with the Robin concept, especially Tim's part. And Damian is a character who can be sold in the media very easily, especially since DCAMU has raised his popularity. That's why they also insisted on keeping him alive. And that's why nobody will turn him into villain, as many suspect. And also that's the reason, why DCeased and Injustice (incredibly popular series right now) have him as one of the main characters. 
They will have him in a retconned universe, obviously.

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## Fergus

Damian proved popular after his 1st appearance. Morrison planed to just use him in the one story. DC requested Morrison hold off on his plans for killing him off. 

By the time he died he was too popular really to remain gone. 
The vocal fans aren't always the majority. Damian has a lot of vocal hate but he is far more popular than even we realise.

An example would you believe it if I told that the most popular ship in the DCSAMU was Damian and Raven's ? or that Damian was one of most requested or inquired after characters from that universe?

I didn't but according to James Tucker and other creatives this is the case.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rV4OBBdM58

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## Fergus

> Regarding their plans, Damian not immediately became popular. He was and probably still remains one of the most hated Batfamily members, at least at that point, for various reasons, starting with his behavior and ending with the fact that he essentially kicked Tim out of the lead roles, and given how many years he was Robin and how fans loved him, I think you understand how much they hated him then. They wanted to kill him not only because they think that Bruce shouldn't have a child, he was just hated character, so they didn't see any reason to keep him alive and Morrison just had that in mind for years. But during his run, and then Tomasi's, he's got lots of fans, B&R was an absolute success, so eventually they brought him back. And for WB, Damian is easier to sell. As I understand it, they basically have a certain problem with the Robin concept, especially Tim's part. And Damian is a character who can be sold in the media very easily, especially since DCAMU has raised his popularity. That's why they also insisted on keeping him alive. And that's why nobody will turn him into villain, as many suspect. And also that's the reason, why DCeased and Injustice (incredibly popular series right now) have him as one of the main characters. 
> They will have him in a retconned universe, obviously.


Tim's Concept is problematic.

Bruce requiring a 13 year old to be his morality or to keep him from the losing isn't somethjing that makes Batman look stable or seem remotely competent. It flys in the face of the image of Batman that is sucessful, that the audience wants and that WB pushes.

Can you see Nolan's Batman being that guy? Not even Adam West's Batman or Batfleck is that guy.
That concept might be welcomed by some because it inflates the importance of Robin to Batman but it damaging to both.

It's also a lie.

This is all without getting into the being a replacement for a dead teen and the fact that this all without his folks not being in on the whole crime fighting side gig.

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## Morgoth

I guess, that's one of the reasons why Tim has been ignored in media for years, even in YJ he's not an important character. 
Damian, on the other side, is that type of character, who easy to introduce as Robin. I'm sure, what if Affleck would be still hanging around, Damian would appear in his movie. And he clearly has all chances to become Keaton's Robin.

----------


## Light of Justice

> It's storylines like this that makes me wish DC had pulled the trigger in Priest's Deathstroke v Batman and decided that Damian wasn't Bruce's son after all. It's clearly not a good relationship for either one and just makes them look bad, particularly Bruce. He is a character unlike Clark who cearly wasn't meant to be a father, it's not a slight against him just that some people are not cut out to be a parent. The man has his mission, its been the one driving and most important thing in his life, the core aspect of his character. Why did anyone think it was a good idea to saddle him with a young kid and expect he would change into some doting father? It's not his character's makeup and it would change what makes him Batman. But Damian fans don't want that, they like his connections to the bat mythos, the "Son of Batman" moniker all the while railing at Bruce for his treatment or lack thereof of Damian. Batman is the foundation and central point of the bat franchise, it's his mythos; you cannot expect his whole character to change for the sake of one character. It's not Bruce who has to change, it's Damian. This is why I say DC should have said actually no Bruce is not the father. Maybe make it Slade or some other person but Damian fans fear that would render Damian irrelevant or consigned to limbo if he is removed from the family. But as it stands he is Bruce's son so the issue going forward is how will that relationship evolve? I for one don't see Bruce becoming some doting, little league coaching dad. He still has his mission and Damian will have to fit into that dynamic as best he can. And Damian fans will have to accept that or just continue to post in frustration at Bruce's behavior, all the while knowing he will not and cannot change. To do so would not be true to his character, he is who he is. Some like me like and accept that, others Damian fans including does not.


I don't think there's people who loved Damian mainly because he's son of Batman. Damian fans want Damian stays as Bruce's son not because he will be irrelevant, but because it will change his character aspect. Damian is not like Cassandra, who has 2 murderer parents but then she realized by herself that murder is a bad thing to do. Damian embrace his fate as Al Ghul heir because it was on his blood, then he followed Batman's path because he's his father whom he idolized since he was little. He just understand about morality when he's under Dick, because unlike Talia or Bruce, Dick never force his insight to Damian, and Damian didn't have to listen Dick's opinion. But on his core, Damian is still a kid who want to be accepted by his parents, but his parents has different way to see the world, and Damian stuck in the middle on his dilemma, because he recognized pros and cons of Al-Ghul's way, but he also recognized pros and cons of Wayne's way. He want to find middle ground from both of the ways is one of his most defining aspect. After all, Morrison once stated that Damian represent kids situation in the middle of divorce, because he also has divorced parents. After Morrison wrapped up Damian's origin like that, making Damian as Deathstroke's son, or any other man's son is a bad idea.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Damian is also prominent in the games, the non shared Universe movies, TV shows. The writers for the Harley Quinn show just had an AMA on Reddit [5 days ago] and talked about their plans for season 3 which includes a more Damian despite his Voice's busy schedule.
> 
> Damian and Babs are the two Bat kids that have been scripted into season 3.
> 
> DC never wanted Bruce to have a biological kid and Morrison didn't plan for Damian to stick around. We know this and Morrison himself in an interview chuckled at the fact the little bugger stuck around causing problems for DC [his own words]
> 
> DC however doesn't make the rules doubly so now that AT&T is in charge and changes are being made to increase synergy across mediums.
> 
> DC might not have planned for Damian to be a permanent feature but they are stuck with him


On what interview Grant Morrison said that Damian stuck around causing problems for DC? 

And yeah, I agree with you, Damian is the least problematic Robin origin. I remember on Robin War there's someone who criticized Batman because he brings kids around to beat criminal and Jason defended him by saying that probably those kids want to hit people all the time and Batman helped that kid to find someone he's supposed to hit. And I just think, how the heck those argument makes Batman looks like a good guy instead of very irresponsible adult? The fact remained that he turned 3 civilian children into child soldier. But Damian is child soldier from birth. He can't be easily turned into normal kid without knowing morality and rules of society, and Robin helped him to understand that.

----------


## Fergus

> To be fair, he started out good with Tim, but it soon went downhill.


No he didn't.

Tim intro was built on vilifying Jason. Bruce so easily and quickly replacing his son underlines how much the family is just for show.

Bruce as a bad father started even before Tim

----------


## Fergus

> On what interview Grant Morrison said that Damian stuck around causing problems for DC? 
> 
> And yeah, I agree with you, Damian is the least problematic Robin origin. I remember on Robin War there's someone who criticized Batman because he brings kids around to beat criminal and Jason defended him by saying that probably those kids want to hit people all the time and Batman helped that kid to find someone he's supposed to hit. And I just think, how the heck those argument makes Batman looks like a good guy instead of very irresponsible adult? The fact remained that he turned 3 civilian children into child soldier. But Damian is child soldier from birth. He can't be easily turned into normal kid without knowing morality and rules of society, and Robin helped him to understand that.


will up load the link as soon as I find it.

----------


## Fergus

> Uh, Damian being Slade Wilson's son isn't better by any means. 
> 
> That aside, the main issue is that once upon a time, Bruce was a good father to both Dick and Jason. Then they decided to keep making Bruce darker, and well, here we are.


They started making Bruce darker under O'neil. Before Miller and even before Jason.

----------


## Fergus

> It's storylines like this that makes me wish DC had pulled the trigger in Priest's Deathstroke v Batman and decided that Damian wasn't Bruce's son after all. It's clearly not a good relationship for either one and just makes them look bad, particularly Bruce. He is a character unlike Clark who cearly wasn't meant to be a father, it's not a slight against him just that some people are not cut out to be a parent. The man has his mission, its been the one driving and most important thing in his life, the core aspect of his character. Why did anyone think it was a good idea to saddle him with a young kid and expect he would change into some doting father? It's not his character's makeup and it would change what makes him Batman. But Damian fans don't want that, they like his connections to the bat mythos, the "Son of Batman" moniker all the while railing at Bruce for his treatment or lack thereof of Damian. Batman is the foundation and central point of the bat franchise, it's his mythos; you cannot expect his whole character to change for the sake of one character. It's not Bruce who has to change, it's Damian. This is why I say DC should have said actually no Bruce is not the father. Maybe make it Slade or some other person but Damian fans fear that would render Damian irrelevant or consigned to limbo if he is removed from the family. But as it stands he is Bruce's son so the issue going forward is how will that relationship evolve? I for one don't see Bruce becoming some doting, little league coaching dad. He still has his mission and Damian will have to fit into that dynamic as best he can. And Damian fans will have to accept that or just continue to post in frustration at Bruce's behavior, all the while knowing he will not and cannot change. To do so would not be true to his character, he is who he is. Some like me like and accept that, others Damian fans including does not.


100% agree on most of your points
Damian is there to service Bruce's story 
DC isn't about to suddenly change Bruce/Batman to fit Damian or any of the family's narratives. They are his support. 
Damian fans should get that by now. All Bat family fans should get that.
Damian just like all bat side characters benefit from their connections to the Batman brand. There's a reason why red Hood has a Bat Brand on his chest even when he's supposed to be a play by his own rules type. Why Casss fans are keen for Babs to be Oracle and hate the name Orphan. Why Tim fans weren't happy when the new 52 distanced him and his parents were brought back.

Proximity to the a big brand like Batman is advantageous.

You are however incorrect / misrepresenting somethings.

Since Rebirth started 90% likely even more of the positive Batdad/ Bat as family man moments have come thanks to Damian. The rest from Jarro

The writers who have actively written Bruce as Abusive or negatively haven't been Damian writers nor do they involve Damian

Lobdell wrote Bruce beating the shit out of Jason
King wrote Bruce punching Tim and endangering Damian
King wrote Bruce's son getting shot and failed to show Bruce visiting/being tormented by the fact
Tynion wrote Bruce admitting to manipulating Tim
King wrote Bruce calling his kids his soldiers

King's incompetent Batman did far more making Bruce look bad than anything has done in years. Not to mention Pennyworth RIP which was the cherry on top.

So no Damian is low on the things that make Batman look bad. 
The most one can argue is that Damian not featuring in the stories implies negligence but logical fans should understand that it's Batman's 
title and story not Damian's so there's no requirement for him to be included if the story doesn't call for it.

If we can accept Batman being in a body cast in one title, trapped in an alternate universe in another and kicking ass on the streets of Gotham in another [all released in the same week] then why can't we assume that Damian chilling with Cass in his bedroom in stories set in the manor that don't feature the batfam?

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I got what peoples that don't like Bruce being a father say, but even if DC want to keep Bruce in his original mission, and compromised just with Gotham and being incapable of work and showing affection, Batman/ Bruce can't just became a abusive figure in his own family. He fight against people who  spank childs and manipulate youngers, he can't do the same thing in his own house.
Maybe Bruce being a better father is against the character that someones have in mind, but the way he acts with his sons is?
Like, Alfred, I would like Alfred being more affective with all in Wayne manor? Yes, but I understand this is not his personality or role in the story.
He says "I became Batman so others childs will not have to live what I did", so what is the sense being a, again, not just a no good father, but a terrible father?

----------


## Fergus

> I got what peoples that don't like Bruce being a father say, but even if DC want to keep Bruce in his original mission, and compromised just with Gotham and being incapable of work and showing affection, Batman/ Bruce can't just became a abusive figure in his own family. He fight against people who  spank childs and manipulate youngers, he can't do the same thing in his own house.
> Maybe Bruce being a better father is against the character that someones have in mind, but the way he acts with his sons is?
> Like, Alfred, I would like Alfred being more effective with all in Wayne manor? Yes, but I understand this is not his personality or role in the story.
> He says "I became Batman so others childs will not have to live what I did", so what is the sense being a, again, not just a no good father, but a terrible father?


Because writers seem to think that angst is the only way to raise the stakes or increase impact. They twist characters just to develop others which isn't fair but sadly is common.
Not just the Batman writers but the Batfamily writers.
 Bruce didn't beat up Jason to develop Bruce's character just like Bruce forgetting Damian's Birthday wasn't done for Bruce's development.

----------


## Fergus

> On what interview Grant Morrison said that Damian stuck around causing problems for DC? 
> 
> And yeah, I agree with you, Damian is the least problematic Robin origin. I remember on Robin War there's someone who criticized Batman because he brings kids around to beat criminal and Jason defended him by saying that probably those kids want to hit people all the time and Batman helped that kid to find someone he's supposed to hit. And I just think, how the heck those argument makes Batman looks like a good guy instead of very irresponsible adult? The fact remained that he turned 3 civilian children into child soldier. But Damian is child soldier from birth. He can't be easily turned into normal kid without knowing morality and rules of society, and Robin helped him to understand that.


The direct quote is from the Fatman on batman interview that can be found on Youtube [it's over 4 hrs so tedious finding the time code but i recommend it for any comic fan]

Here is another source to a book where he says pretty much the same but worded differently.

Grant Morrison on why he killed Damian [interview from McCabe, Joseph. 100 Things Batman Fans Should Know & Do Before They Die. Triumph Books, 2017.]


Your work also showed other creators how the character can evolve. Like when you gave him a son in Damian.

Yeah. But I always just wanted to kill the kid so he wouldn’t affect the future of Batman. Because I knew [writer] Scott Snyder didn’t want to have to deal with the son. Because his Batman was a loner, he was a bit more human. He could screw up more. Whereas my Batman was…Okay, you’ve done 15 years of training. You’re a zen master. You wouldn’t have those hatreds anymore. The training would have bombed you out. You’d be an optimum man by this point, psychologically quite pure.

You’d have inner peace.

Yeah. So that’s my Batman. He’s the optimum man. He’s solved his problems. But I understand why it’s cool to write about a Batman who’s a bit more angry and angst-driven and just dealing with the mission. So that’s why I wanted Damian out of the picture—“Here’s the story and then he dies and Batman can move on and you need never mention the kid again.” But the kid then proved popular, and he’s in there again, screwing up the continuity. So I’m kind of pleased with that. But, you know…[Laughs.]

I didn't say that Damian had the least problematic Robin Origin. He doesn't. That would be Dick and Duke since their Origin isn't dependent on another side character.

If you mean in the sense of ethics then I guess Damian is less problematic only in the sense that he is the only Robin whose life became less perilous by becoming Robin.

----------


## Konja7

> Because writers seem to think that angst is the only way to raise the stakes or increase impact. They twist characters just to develop others which isn't fair but sadly is common.
> Not just the Batman writers but the Batfamily writers.
>  Bruce didn't beat up Jason to develop Bruce's character just like Bruce forgetting Damian's Birthday wasn't done for Bruce's development.


This is true. Writers of other Batfamily members use "Bruce is a bad father" to develop (generate drama) their characters.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Because writers seem to think that angst is the only way to raise the stakes or increase impact. They twist characters just to develop others which isn't fair but sadly is common.
> Not just the Batman writers but the Batfamily writers.
>  Bruce didn't beat up Jason to develop Bruce's character just like Bruce forgetting Damian's Birthday wasn't done for Bruce's development.


This really makes senses... when you change the focus for another character writers need to do this... hummm still, Bruce forgotten Damian's birthday, is a "oh, typical Bruce" for me. But, yeah, I can think in many examples of what you said.

----------


## Digifiend

> Some books do better digitally eg Injustice. One of DC's best seller and it was thanks to digital sales.


Doesn't Injustice sell ZERO copies in print? It's a digital exclusive series, isn't it?

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I have a thing because for me Batman was still the Batman of Cartoon shows, and I liked him when I read comics of my father sometimes too, but when I start to read more, looks like something is wrong, because Batman see himself like a hero, but his moral is weird.
Imagine you never saw anything about Batman before. So you listen he is a hero that don't kill, but you read a comic when he brokes the neck of another guy and refuse to call help letting him to die in abandoned snow (don't see likes Bruce believe KGBeast would not die). COOL comic, but, isn't this weird?
There is Thanos, he is a villain, he is Immoral, but everything he says is so logical, you know? And for the universe benefits he sacrifices his daughter and put his own life in dangerous. And for me Batman is kind this. He see himself saving innocents and following his don't kill rules, but he use loopholes in his own system for do things that are not of good guys. Like "Batman don't killllllll, but brokes people's neck he hates and let die abandoned in snow"; "justice never sleepsssss but take vacations for do couple yoga in beach while the city he promised protect is in fire" "Batman don't play, but tell lies so sooo dark that anyone doing this should be putting in Arkham".

----------


## Rebeca Armus

But I like Bruce being paranoic, too much confidence and full of power. the dark Knight, The best world Detective and don't the hero they want, but the villain they need. titles like this are pretty cool i love this exaggeration.
He was like this when he was trying to bring Damian back from death. He made Jason go at the place he was assassinated by Joker, and had the problem with Frank Stein, and other shits.
 I don't think it was for Jason's development, It was Batman being Batman full of anger, angst and with ANY capacity of discernment, just like he do for protect Gotham.
So I think we can get who is Batman, but also that there is just scripts that was not well done.

----------


## Konja7

> I have a thing because for me Batman was still the Batman of Cartoon shows, and I liked him when I read comics of my father sometimes too, but when I start to read more, looks like something is wrong, because Batman see himself like a hero, but his moral is weird.
> Imagine you never saw anything about Batman before. So you listen he is a hero that don't kill, but you read a comic when he brokes the neck of another guy and refuse to call help letting him to die in abandoned snow (don't see likes Bruce believe KGBeast would not die). COOL comic, but, isn't this weird?
> There is Thanos, he is a villain, he is Immoral, but everything he says is so logical, you know? And for the universe benefits he sacrifices his daughter and put his own life in dangerous. And for me Batman is kind this. He see himself saving innocents and following his don't kill rules, but he use loopholes in his own system for do things that are not of good guys. Like "Batman don't killllllll, but brokes people's neck he hates and let die abandoned in snow"; "justice never sleepsssss but take vacations for do couple yoga in beach while the city he promised protect is in fire" "Batman don't play, but tell lies so sooo dark that anyone doing this should be putting in Arkham".


I have exactly the same problem when I see Batman let KGBeast to die. And when Batman won't kill Bane, because it will be more horrible for Bane to paralize him. 

Honestly, this seems to be a Tom King thing. 

Tom King clearly doesn't like the "not kill rule" (King has said that Batman will kill someone horrible as KGBeast), but I guess editors won't allow him to break the rule. So, Tom King use more horrible loopholes.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I have exactly the same problem when I see Batman let KGBeast to die. And when Batman won't kill Bane, because it will be more horrible for Bane to paralize him. 
> 
> Honestly, this seems to be a Tom King thing. 
> 
> Tom King clearly doesn't like the "not kill rule" (King has said that Batman will kill someone horrible as KGBeast), but I guess editors won't allow him to break the rule. So, Tom King use more horrible loopholes.


I don't know how, but I have forgotten that Bruce said it for Bane, it's definitely worst than kill. City of Bane was a mess : /

----------


## Jackalope89

> I have exactly the same problem when I see Batman let KGBeast to die. And when Batman won't kill Bane, because it will be more horrible for Bane to paralize him. 
> 
> Honestly, this seems to be a Tom King thing. 
> 
> Tom King clearly doesn't like the "not kill rule" (King has said that Batman will kill someone horrible as KGBeast), but I guess editors won't allow him to break the rule. So, Tom King use more horrible loopholes.


Well, Beast apparently didn't die, as Damian supposedly will face him. Don't ask me how that works, I'm just pointing out what DC is planning on doing.

----------


## Light of Justice

> The direct quote is from the Fatman on batman interview that can be found on Youtube [it's over 4 hrs so tedious finding the time code but i recommend it for any comic fan]
> 
> Here is another source to a book where he says pretty much the same but worded differently.
> 
> Grant Morrison on why he killed Damian [interview from McCabe, Joseph. 100 Things Batman Fans Should Know & Do Before They Die. Triumph Books, 2017.]
> 
> 
> Your work also showed other creators how the character can evolve. Like when you gave him a son in Damian.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info!

Yeah I misinterpret your words before, now I see your point. Dick and Duke are Batman character whose origin isn't dependent on another side character. Jason's origin related to Batman-Dick separation, and Tim's origin related to Graysons's death and Jason's death. Damian's existence isn't related to other Robins, but sacrificing Talia's character instead (even though I once saw a comment that Damian helps Talia to have permanent place on Bat mythos, but isn't Talia is one of the most popular Batman's lover even without Damian?). I see some Talia fans are mad with DC because they portrayed Talia on bad light and as abusive mother, saying that they're racist, but looking at Batman's situation right now, I don't see how Damian will choose Batman over Talia if Talia is decent mother. I feel sorry for Talia, but Talia's bad parenting is one of Damian's building character.

----------


## Digifiend

> Well, Beast apparently didn't die, as Damian supposedly will face him. Don't ask me how that works, I'm just pointing out what DC is planning on doing.


No supposedly about it, it happened last week.

----------


## dietrich

> Doesn't Injustice sell ZERO copies in print? It's a digital exclusive series, isn't it?


Kinda missing my point which is that we don't really know how big the digital market is since we don't get the figures but it must be decent if we consider the success of titles like Injustice

----------


## dietrich

> I was simply confused why they came to the Damian Wayne appreciation thread when they didn't seem interested in him. I don't see how it's my fault they got pissy. I don't have much patience for melodramatic people.
> So if they want to leave because of something like this they can leave.
> I didn't insult or bully them.
> So don't tell me how to act.


The poster was simply sharing their opinion like they have done for over a year now even back on the old thread. 

The poster was a regular on both Damian threads and a clearly a fan of the character as evidenced from not just his comments in the Appreciation threads but in general conversations in other threads.

Even if the poster's not a fan they are still welcome to share their views on what is currently happening with Damian in his titles so long as they are not trolling or being derogatory

----------


## dietrich

> Uh, Damian being Slade Wilson's son isn't better by any means. 
> 
> That aside, the main issue is that once upon a time, Bruce was a good father to both Dick and Jason. Then they decided to keep making Bruce darker, and well, here we are.


Little wonder the term Batjerk was coined in the 90's.

----------


## Arctic Cyclist

> Doesn't Injustice sell ZERO copies in print? It's a digital exclusive series, isn't it?


Yes. However it's still an Amazon and New York Times best seller, which is a considerably different metric than Diamond. Batman and Robin also hit that list, as did Omega Men and Snyder's Batman.

----------


## CPSparkles

Happy Fathers Day by Dan Mora



Batman and Robin [Damian] as Power Rangers by Dan Mora





https://twitter.com/Danmora_c

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Pretty cool and original <3 I would just change Robin's helmet, the rest is perfect.

----------


## Blue22

> Batman and Robin [Damian] as Power Rangers by Dan Mora
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/Danmora_c


Whelp....I had been looking for something to replace Ryusoul Blue as my desktop background. Just didn't think it' be something else related to Power Rangers XD

----------


## Korath

Do you think we'll start to learn more about Damian's future identity soon ? If I were DC, I'd start to hint at it now...

----------


## Morgoth

In August there will be soliticitations for November issues, including 'Tec #1030, it will be second issue in Damian arc (probably it also will include Ghost-Maker).
This Friday also will be Comic-Con at Home, where DC will have a panel, there also seems to be information about the future of Batman, it is possible that there will be information about Damian. But Tomasi has not been announced for there yet, just Tynion.

----------


## dietrich

> Do you think we'll start to learn more about Damian's future identity soon ? If I were DC, I'd start to hint at it now...


I don't think so because Damian's future identity will still be Robin.

The only new info so far is that Tomasi will be writing his return to the Batbooks

----------


## dietrich

> Happy Fathers Day by Dan Mora
> 
> 
> 
> Batman and Robin [Damian] as Power Rangers by Dan Mora
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The Bat rangers. So awesome.

----------


## Morgoth

After Tynion's interview, I've got a feeling, that his return arc in some sort will be something like Born to Kill, where the villain will try to use Damian against his father. Ghost-Maker was described as a Bruce's enemy from his past, who thinks, that his methods aren't working, also, they met eachother when Bruce was a teenager (I guess, just as Ghost-Maker). Bruce and Damian quarell also based on disagreement over Bruce's method to handle things in Gotham. 
I'll bet that, like Nobody, Ghost-Maker will try to use Damian against Bruce, especially since he also doubts his father's methods. And Ghost-Maker will be, so to speak, the character model that Damian risks becoming if he continues down the dark path.
Actually, in this way, I think Damian will eventually return to the light, defeating Ghost-Maker.

----------


## Light of Justice

> After Tynion's interview, I've got a feeling, that his return arc in some sort will be something like Born to Kill, where the villain will try to use Damian against his father. Ghost-Maker was described as a Bruce's enemy from his past, who thinks, that his methods aren't working, also, they met eachother when Bruce was a teenager (I guess, just as Ghost-Maker). Bruce and Damian quarell also based on disagreement over Bruce's method to handle things in Gotham. 
> I'll bet that, like Nobody, Ghost-Maker will try to use Damian against Bruce, especially since he also doubts his father's methods. And Ghost-Maker will be, so to speak, the character model that Damian risks becoming if he continues down the dark path.
> Actually, in this way, I think Damian will eventually return to the light, defeating Ghost-Maker.


I'm not very fond of repeating plot, but both Nobody arc and upcoming Damian issue on Tec are both written by Tomasi, so there's possibility..

----------


## dietrich

I hope it's not a repeat Born to kill which has also been adapted as a movie [Batman v Robin]
At least Tomasi's involvement is a positive.

Also now wondering with Tomasi's involvement in Death Metal as the co- writer of Robin King who a poster here suggested might be Damian and they could be right I now think since his Robin suit is Damian's Rebirth LOA inspired Tunic.

I really hope it's not another Damian since this kid is described as the worst even before TBWL got to him.

The Robin King one shot also has a back up story of the Robins trying to save Gotham which should be interesting.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Happy Fathers Day by Dan Mora
> 
> 
> 
> Batman and Robin [Damian] as Power Rangers by Dan Mora
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I just notice, isn't Robin's cape adoooorable? Remember me Pokemon.

----------


## Light of Justice

source : @rileyrossmo1

New art of Robin King, in Damian Robin costume.

----------


## CPSparkles

more Robin King. His suit sure does look a lot like Damian's 




Robin King by Greg Capullo



Dark Nights Death Metal Legends of The Dark Knights Variant Cover by Kaare Andrews

----------


## adrikito

....... WTF.. 

WHY THE IDIOT WHO LAUGHS IS NOT DEAD? They used manhattan to improve him even more.. HE IS AS ANNOYING AS HARLEY OR EVEN MORE(If that is possible harley will continue in DC forever.. He will fall someday)


Not only the Coronavirus... It seems that this will be a TERRIBLE YEAR for Damian too..

Even TT last solicitations look terrible... I think that I will leave the comic the next month.

----------


## CPSparkles

> source : @rileyrossmo1
> 
> New art of Robin King, in Damian Robin costume.


Yea the suit does look like Damian's and that cover is the same as a previous Damian one

----------


## CPSparkles

> I just notice, isn't Robin's cape adoooorable? Remember me Pokemon.


IKR. I wouldn't mind a Power Rangers/Batman and Robin crossover. Tom Taylor's JL/Power Rangers cross over was very good.

----------


## CPSparkles

> ....... WTF.. 
> 
> WHY THE IDIOT WHO LAUGHS IS NOT DEAD? IS AS ANNOYING AS HARLEY OR EVEN MORE(If that is possible)
> 
> Not only the Coronavirus... It seems that this will be a TERRIBLE YEAR for Damian too..
> 
> Even TT last solicitations look terrible... I think that I will leave the comic the next month.


I'm still hoping it's not Damian.

----------


## CPSparkles

> I hope it's not a repeat Born to kill which has also been adapted as a movie [Batman v Robin]
> At least Tomasi's involvement is a positive.
> 
> Also now wondering with Tomasi's involvement in Death Metal as the co- writer of Robin King who a poster here suggested might be Damian and they could be right I now think since his Robin suit is Damian's Rebirth LOA inspired Tunic.
> 
> I really hope it's not another Damian since this kid is described as the worst even before TBWL got to him.
> 
> The Robin King one shot also has a back up story of the Robins trying to save Gotham which should be interesting.


Synder always seems to change his mind. He did this with Dark Nights Metal. Announcing at 1st that Damian wasn't going to be involved but then we got not just Damian and Dick popping up but a whole 4 issue tie in.

I'm not too keen on the Robin King but the tie in with Nightwing, Starfire and Cyborg sound interesting. The Metal version of Nightwing is legit.

----------


## adrikito

I hope NOT SEE Damian involved in the LAUGH IDIOT comics.. I am tired of him.. I want his DEFINITIVE DEAD.

Please. NO.. Damian doesn´t need more SUFFERING.. I don´t want one UNDER MIND control Damian with the *WORST DC CHARACTER IN DECADES*(the idiot who laughs)  :Mad:   :Mad: 

I hope see him in another places after August.. In comics related with BATMAN for example..


I hope that he continues in BATMAN BEYOND until the end of this year.

----------


## CPSparkles

> I hope NOT SEE Damian involved in the LAUGH IDIOT comics.. I am tired of him.. I want his DEFINITIVE DEAD.
> 
> Please. NO.. Damian doesn´t need more SUFFERING.. I don´t want one UNDER MIND control Damian with the *WORST DC CHARACTER IN DECADES*(the idiot who laughs)  
> 
> I hope see him in another places after August.. In comics related with BATMAN for example..
> 
> 
> I hope that he continues in BATMAN BEYOND until the end of this year.


I mean we already had 2 Dark universe Damian's
The Damian who laughs who is The Batman who Laughs son and the Damian from Deathstroke who is the son of Deathstroke and Wonder Woman so too late.

Batman Beyond is doing great with Damian. Looking forward to the upcoming issues

----------


## Restingvoice

> ....... WTF.. 
> 
> WHY THE IDIOT WHO LAUGHS IS NOT DEAD? They used manhattan to improve him even more.. HE IS AS ANNOYING AS HARLEY OR EVEN MORE(If that is possible harley will continue in DC forever.. He will fall someday)
> 
> 
> Not only the Coronavirus... It seems that this will be a TERRIBLE YEAR for Damian too..
> 
> Even TT last solicitations look terrible... I think that I will leave the comic the next month.


Snyder realized nobody can beat Perpetua, Wally's focused on fixing the timeline, and Manhattan decided to be an observer again, so he needs a killer with a power that can beat Perpetua, otherwise, his overly long arc will never get done XD

----------


## adrikito

> Snyder realized nobody can beat Perpetua, Wally's focused on fixing the timeline, and Manhattan decided to be an observer again, so he needs a killer with a power that can beat Perpetua, otherwise, his overly long arc will never get done XD


Then use JUSTICE LEAGUE ODDYSEY giving to DARKSEID one power that makes him able to DESTROY OR SEAL her... Not make this annoying character continue here.

What will happen if he kills her? That he will continue here with surprising powers..




> I mean we already had 2 Dark universe Damian's
> The Damian who laughs who is The Batman who Laughs son and the Damian from Deathstroke who is the son of Deathstroke and Wonder Woman so too late.
> 
> Batman Beyond is doing great with Damian. Looking forward to the upcoming issues


Fortunately I am sure that I will not read more content related with that IDIOT WHO LAUGHS.. 

I stopped reading WW comics FEW YEARS ago and even now seems unlikely that I change my mind. Only something SPECIAL like Darkseid appearances in WW comics in the last years were enough to force me to read it again as long as he was here.

So I will only learn what happened(if another Dark Damian appeared or not) when the people or the solicitations mention it.

----------


## dietrich

> Then use JUSTICE LEAGUE ODDYSEY giving to DARKSEID one power that makes him able to DESTROY OR SEAL her... Not make this annoying character continue here.
> 
> What will happen if he kills her? That he will continue here with surprising powers..


None of those are as popular as TBWL. Lets be honest, in comics survival is down to popularity. 
Plus this is a Synder event.

----------


## dietrich

Those pics of Robin King are fire not even going to lie. They are so badass, I'm not even mad. It might turn out to be another version of Damian although from what we saw in Death Metal 2. It can't be him but we'll see.

----------


## Morgoth

Robin King is most likely not one of the Robins we know. Perhaps this is some kind of dark collective image, maybe even the name will not be revealed there. It could be Damian, of course, but Snyder doesn't like Damian, so I have doubts that it will turn out to be him, with all this hype.

----------


## adrikito

> None of those are as popular as TBWL. Lets be honest, in comics survival is down to popularity. 
> Plus this is a Synder event.


Really? That idiot who laughs is POPULAR like Harley?

We already have a JOKER.

I was talking about move one IMPROVED DARKSEID to the Idiot who laughs comics to destroy/seal Perpetua... That is not like need this JOKER COPY for that.




> Robin King is most likely not one of the Robins we know. Perhaps this is some kind of dark collective image, maybe even the name will not be revealed there. It could be Damian, of course, but Snyder doesn't like Damian, so I have doubts that it will turn out to be him, with all this hype.


One GOOD EXCUSE to make another Damian from *Universe ¿??* the villain.. Is not like he cares about him.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Really? That idiot who laughs is POPULAR like Harley?
> 
> We already have a JOKER.
> 
> I was talking about move one IMPROVED DARKSEID to the Idiot who laughs comics to destroy/seal Perpetua... That is not like need this JOKER COPY for that.
> 
> 
> 
> One GOOD EXCUSE to make another Damian from *Universe ¿??* the villain.. Is not like he cares about him.


The Batman Who Laughs... mini-series, was it? Was number #1 in sales. So yeah, when it comes to just comics, he's more popular than Harley

----------


## Konja7

> Really? That idiot who laughs is POPULAR like Harley?
> 
> We already have a JOKER.
> 
> I was talking about move one IMPROVED DARKSEID to the Idiot who laughs comics to destroy/seal Perpetua... That is not like need this JOKER COPY for that.
> 
> 
> 
> One GOOD EXCUSE to make another Damian from *Universe ¿??* the villain.. Is not like he cares about him.


Yeah. The Batman Who Laughs seems pretty popular (and he is likely more than Harley). His mini-series was in the top 10 of sales.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I hope NOT SEE Damian involved in the LAUGH IDIOT comics.. I am tired of him.. I want his DEFINITIVE DEAD.
> 
> Please. NO.. Damian doesn´t need more SUFFERING.. I don´t want one UNDER MIND control Damian with the *WORST DC CHARACTER IN DECADES*(the idiot who laughs)  
> 
> I hope see him in another places after August.. In comics related with BATMAN for example..
> 
> 
> I hope that he continues in BATMAN BEYOND until the end of this year.


From solicitation, Zeh-Ro arc ends on September, and on october is start of 'First Contact arc', with Bruce tries to kill Terry it seems.

----------


## dietrich

> From solicitation, Zeh-Ro arc ends on September, and on october is start of 'First Contact arc', with Bruce tries to kill Terry it seems.


can we just have some books where the family aren't trying to kill each other.

BB's batfamily was on it way to giving us 'regular' family dynamics with everyone accounted for and reduced drama. Now this.

----------


## Light of Justice

> can we just have some books where the family aren't trying to kill each other.
> 
> BB's batfamily was on it way to giving us 'regular' family dynamics with everyone accounted for and reduced drama. Now this.


This year is "Waynes Randomly Want to Kill" year.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Batman who laughs is just so liked because he is new and there is no much things with him, I don't think if he had 10 years now he would be so popular like Harley. Is a good character, but if a mysterious character appears in a lot of stories this appeal disappears.
Because of this I LOVED Batman in JL tv show, but when knowing more Bruce Wayne he became less bad ass.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I want a opinion, anyone beside me don't like "official spoilers"? Because when writers say what is going to happen in future comics or there is a cover that implies in things we still don't know I feel like it spoiler surprises. For me is like a movie with trailers that show too much. And is also weird because in another medias the declarations is like "maybe you are going to have a little surprise" *wink wink*, "we can't say nothing yet", "you guys will need to wait".

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I think I wasn't in Damian appreciation when I saw this, but Batcow Showed up in TTGO final episode season.

What you guys think that is the possibility of Damian have a appearance in the show?

----------


## dietrich

> I think I wasn't in Damian appreciation when I saw this, but Batcow Showed up in TTGO final episode season.
> 
> What you guys think that is the possibility of Damian have a appearance in the show?


I love that BatCow is so beloved.
Damian might show up if they have another one of those episodes where they show different robins but all nameless.

I would love for him to show up but I feel there's a deliberate reason why the Robin in the show isn't named. The history of Robin is convoluted. 
Have one who reflects all of them is simpler.

He showed up in DCsHG.

----------


## dietrich

> I want a opinion, anyone beside me don't like "official spoilers"? Because when writers say what is going to happen in future comics or there is a cover that implies in things we still don't know I feel like it spoiler surprises. For me is like a movie with trailers that show too much. And is also weird because in another medias the declarations is like "maybe you are going to have a little surprise" *wink wink*, "we can't say nothing yet", "you guys will need to wait".


I don't mind them since they are teasers designed to get you hooked so you buy the book. Most times they turn out to be misleading, don't tell the full story or just give us part of the story. Like a film trailer.

They never give us the full story.

it's all marketing. Look at Tom King who makes a huge deal of spoiling and teasing big thing's from his story. The dude goes out of his way to bait and reveal stuff that about to happen. Giving away far too much and what always happens. A twist. 
The wedding was a scam all along 
Alfred was supposed to be a fakeout
Bane hanging the boys - fake out
Helena- not canon
Status quo changes that he went to WB to get permission for - nothing or maybe Alfred getting shot
Not being clear when asked if Bat/cat mini was in continuity thereby getting fan hopes up - Batman writer and Batman editor both came out and confirmed the 12 issue series isn't in continuity.

The spoiler covers are nothing new. Comics have been doing it since the golden age the thing is they never give you the full picture.

----------


## dietrich

> Batman who laughs is just so liked because he is new and there is no much things with him, I don't think if he had 10 years now he would be so popular like Harley. Is a good character, but if a mysterious character appears in a lot of stories this appeal disappears.
> Because of this I LOVED Batman in JL tv show, but when knowing more Bruce Wayne he became less bad ass.



I know what you mean. The mystique goes away with some characters or people even then more you learn.

The batman who laughs was somewhat  interesting  to me at first but now I think I need a break. I like some of the other Dark Batmen better and wish we could learn more about them.

Batman is still badass when used and written properly. There's been too much of him doing uncool things. I like a human Batman and that can be down without turning him into badman.

Look at Batman in the Harley Quinn show, The animated movies, stuff like Robin Rises when he goes to face Darkseid, the recent Batman Beyond where he's old walks with a cane but is still badass.

Batman is misused a lot and is used to prop other or as a plot device to drive others stories by and in a lot of acclaimed stories

Tynion's Rebirth Tec - where everyone dumps on him and Steph Brown even slaps him
DCeased -  where he's so dumb he fails to make his suit bite proof [WTF]. He was made dumb to drive the plot [Damian becoming batman]
White Knight - he's a bad guy
LPOFD -He was turned into an uncaring father and an incompetent adult to drive Tim's story
RhATO Rebirth - He beats Jason to a pulp  to drive Jason''s plot.

King's Batman is pretty much Batman at his worst and most unlikable. He isn't even a hero in that run and is down right villainous and stupid. City of bane was his fault 

Batman is cool and badass. When written well.

TBWL  is popular though his popularity has led to Synder's Padawan desperately trying to emulate his master by introducing all manner of unoriginal new characters in his Batman run. His only been on the title how long and how many characters has he introduced? All of the unoriginal and subpar.

I'm glad that NBC are launching their own comics in the quest for source material for their streaming service.

Netflix's has Miller World
Disney+ has Marvel
Hbo has DC 

Let the streaming wars begin this will force WB and AT*T to start keeping a closer eye on the comics dept which for decades has been just an old boys club where nepotism is the norm.

Hopefully with HBO facing such intense competition and AT&T being heavily in debt from buying WB the focus will be on performance and demand.

Let the market decide.

----------


## dietrich

> This year is "Waynes Randomly Want to Kill" year.


The issue turned out to be quite good and full of feels. I love this Batfamily and Bruce looks so happy even though they were in danger.

Adult Damian is so well done. I love him as The Demon's Head in his chamber surrounded by candles while working on plans to save the world and Mother Earth.

Not quite who Talia had planned and nurtured him to be but still at the same time we could see what she said he would be. The next Alexander.

I hope he carries on his current path.

Matt talking to Goliath was just the best thing next to father and daughter in matching Black and Blues and mayor Grayson calling Damian kid and robin.

Yeah. This issue was a great read.

----------


## Light of Justice

> The issue turned out to be quite good and full of feels. I love this Batfamily and Bruce looks so happy even though they were in danger.
> 
> Adult Damian is so well done. I love him as The Demon's Head in his chamber surrounded by candles while working on plans to save the world and Mother Earth.
> 
> Not quite who Talia had planned and nurtured him to be but still at the same time we could see what she said he would be. The next Alexander.
> 
> I hope he carries on his current path.
> 
> Matt talking to Goliath was just the best thing next to father and daughter in matching Black and Blues and mayor Grayson calling Damian kid and robin.
> ...


Yeah, and Dick called him Robin, made us remember that just like Dick is Batman's ultimate (original) Robin, Damian is also Dick's ultimate kid and Robin. 




> I don't mind them since they are teasers designed to get you hooked so you buy the book. Most times they turn out to be misleading, don't tell the full story or just give us part of the story. Like a film trailer


Speaking about teaser, both solicitation of 2 latest issues of Batman Beyond is incorrect. On Batman Beyond #44 solicit and cover implied that Damian will fight Terry but it didn't happen. On Batman Beyond #45 it says that Damian had to put aside his feeling for the 'pretender' to work together, but Damian didn't even cast side eye to Terry. So yeah, just like you said, those solicits is there just to attract us, and often (if not always) misleading.

I like how Jurgens writes Damian. He also wrote Nightwing Annual #2 and also created Jon, that man is great. Don't like his Dick a.k.a Nightwing though. Pun not intended

----------


## Fergus

> I know what you mean. The mystique goes away with some characters or people even then more you learn.
> 
> The batman who laughs was somewhat  interesting  to me at first but now I think I need a break. I like some of the other Dark Batmen better and wish we could learn more about them.
> 
> Batman is still badass when used and written properly. There's been too much of him doing uncool things. I like a human Batman and that can be down without turning him into badman.
> 
> Look at Batman in the Harley Quinn show, The animated movies, stuff like Robin Rises when he goes to face Darkseid, the recent Batman Beyond where he's old walks with a cane but is still badass.
> 
> Batman is misused a lot and is used to prop other or as a plot device to drive others stories by and in a lot of acclaimed stories
> ...


I thought similar when I heard about Morrison heading up the Launch of NBC/Boom's foray into comics. Only reason AT&T isn't looking at the comics division for sale or even shutting em down. lets face it batman is the only comic character that's moving comics in any serious way. Comics are a niche dying market.

They are valuable sources for original streaming content. HBO is scrambling for content to sell subs since they missed the Covid boost which ended up favouring Disney+ a ton.

The lock-down was payday for streaming services.

Hopefully it puts DC Comics under the microscope and they get rid of the old system that has festered favouritism and mismanagement of characters.

Bring in business people and get rid of some of the comic fanboys that way nostalgia is thrown out the window.

Streaming might have thrown comics a lifeline as bigger companies follow Netflix's example.

----------


## Fergus

> I think I wasn't in Damian appreciation when I saw this, but Batcow Showed up in TTGO final episode season.
> 
> What you guys think that is the possibility of Damian have a appearance in the show?


I enjoy that show  :Smile:

----------


## Jackalope89

> Yeah, and Dick called him Robin, made us remember that just like Dick is Batman's ultimate (original) Robin, Damian is also Dick's ultimate kid and Robin. 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking about teaser, both solicitation of 2 latest issues of Batman Beyond is incorrect. On Batman Beyond #44 solicit and cover implied that Damian will fight Terry but it didn't happen. On Batman Beyond #45 it says that Damian had to put aside his feeling for the 'pretender' to work together, but Damian didn't even cast side eye to Terry. So yeah, just like you said, those solicits is there just to attract us, and often (if not always) misleading.
> 
> I like how Jurgens writes Damian. He also wrote Nightwing Annual #2 and also created Jon, that man is great. Don't like his Dick a.k.a Nightwing though. Pun not intended


It was a fun issue. Even R'as was finally gone!
We know Damian sees Dick as his older brother (rightfully), even though they also have a father/son thing going on too. So, I wonder how Damian will get along with Dick's daughter? Will be interesting, to be sure.

----------


## Morgoth

> So, I wonder how Damian will get along with Dick's daughter?


Kingdom Come contains the answer for your question)

----------


## Jackalope89

> Kingdom Come contains the answer for your question)


Yeah, would rather not contemplate _that_ kind of relationship developing.

----------


## dietrich

> Kingdom Come contains the answer for your question)


I'm a huge fan of Ibn and Mari but with the type of close relationship the main universe Damian and Dick have him having a romance with his daughter feels wrong.

Like one of the Robin's dating Cass if she was raised by Bruce.

----------


## Wingin' It

The main issue Dick had with Ibn and Mar'i being together was that he was raised in the LoA, you are correct in that they did not have a familial relationship prior to that. Bruce didn't even know Ibn existed until the guy was like, 30. 

With Dick and Damian having a brotherly/paternal relationship in canon, it would definitely be weird in this context.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I love that BatCow is so beloved.
> Damian might show up if they have another one of those episodes where they show different robins but all nameless.
> 
> I would love for him to show up but I feel there's a deliberate reason why the Robin in the show isn't named. The history of Robin is convoluted. 
> Have one who reflects all of them is simpler.
> 
> He showed up in DCsHG.


But since we know TTGO is a parody of TT tv show this Robin need to be Dick Grayson, Right? Even they don't say his name it's implicit, I think.
A Damian episode would be so funny, there is many possibilities.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I don't mind them since they are teasers designed to get you hooked so you buy the book. Most times they turn out to be misleading, don't tell the full story or just give us part of the story. Like a film trailer.
> 
> They never give us the full story.
> 
> it's all marketing. Look at Tom King who makes a huge deal of spoiling and teasing big thing's from his story. The dude goes out of his way to bait and reveal stuff that about to happen. Giving away far too much and what always happens. A twist. 
> The wedding was a scam all along 
> Alfred was supposed to be a fakeout
> Bane hanging the boys - fake out
> Helena- not canon
> ...


I see... Again I think it's because in anime/manga/japanese movies or books resume in general don't have this. I never watch more than 40 seconds of american trailers. I know it can don't be new, but is bad when there is 4 trailers of a movie or a writer/ cover give a "fake spoiler" because who like the idea became disappointed. But so looks like it's more just with me, even close persons by me don't care too much about this. u_o

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> The main issue Dick had with Ibn and Mar'i being together was that he was raised in the LoA, you are correct in that they did not have a familial relationship prior to that. Bruce didn't even know Ibn existed until the guy was like, 30. 
> 
> With Dick and Damian having a brotherly/paternal relationship in canon, it would definitely be weird in this context.


I knew about Damian-Mari couple AFTER seing many fanarts with Damian and baby Mari and some fanfics, so I thought "hum? wth is this?".
This definitely can't happen in this Universe Version, please.
BUT Talia and Jason being a thing was very weird to me, I don't doubt that if Damian stay way for years and comeback with Mari being 18 the ship will not happen. But, again, PLEASE, NO.

----------


## Morgoth

By the way, since Catwoman Anniversary issue I'm interested to see how Damian would get along with Helena (Selina's pregnancy isn't canon, I understand). Yeah, I know, he met older version from Earth-2, but I really would like to see that type of dynamic, when he's older brother with his little sister hanging around. 
Damian as Batman and Helena as his Robin, that would be something.

----------


## Katana500

> I knew about Damian-Mari couple AFTER seing many fanarts with Damian and baby Mari and some fanfics, so I thought "hum? wth is this?".
> This definitely can't happen in this Universe Version, please.
> BUT Talia and Jason being a thing was very weird to me, I don't doubt that if Damian stay way for years and comeback with Mari being 18 the ship will not happen. But, again, PLEASE, NO.


You could have Mari be Damian's age with some time shenanigans. Time Travel/From the Future or just have her concieved very early in Dick's Teen Titans career and have him for some reason forget about her existence.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> You could have Mari be Damian's age with some time shenanigans. Time Travel/From the Future or just have her concieved very early in Dick's Teen Titans career and have him for some reason forget about her existence.


It could happen and would not be so weird, but I still prefer Dami-Mari not happen. In the last possibility I think Mari could have a crush in Damian for some while, just this unilateral for no much time.
*for me Dick-Damian Father-Son (and Dick in 1 year more than Batman made in 4) relationship is strong and uncle Damian would be so nice to see.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

In a scale of 0 to 10, what do you guys think is the chance of DamiJon became a canon? (*-*)/

----------


## CPSparkles

> In a scale of 0 to 10, what do you guys think is the chance of DamiJon became a canon? (*-*)/


I doubt it. Jon is about to get into a relationship in LOSH and Damian in the animated series is hetero. I know they could be revealed as Bi or in the closet like Damian from The Just universe but I don't see it. Writers seem keen to pair them up with members of the opposite sex.

----------


## Restingvoice

> In a scale of 0 to 10, what do you guys think is the chance of DamiJon became a canon? (*-*)/


Zero

Batwoman was created 15 years ago and unable to maintain a relationship

The only gay couple that's able to maintain a relationship is a parody of Batman and Superman

Also they're underage offsprings of DC's biggest characters that's almost as old and sacred as Mickey Mouse

----------


## CPSparkles

> By the way, since Catwoman Anniversary issue I'm interested to see how Damian would get along with Helena (Selina's pregnancy isn't canon, I understand). Yeah, I know, he met older version from Earth-2, but I really would like to see that type of dynamic, when he's older brother with his little sister hanging around. 
> Damian as Batman and Helena as his Robin, that would be something.


A brother and sister Batman and Robin. Sounds interesting but I was really glad when Dick ended the legacy of Robin in BB because enough. I don't think that Damian with the way he was raised and his canon tendency to break when confronted with kid victims or in danger shouldn't want to endanger any kid.

B&R reborn was about evolution. Damian should follow Mayor Grayson's lead in Batman beyond and not drag a child who isn't a solider or enhanced into crime fighting.

I like the idea of Damian with a kid sister but we already have that in his pets.

----------


## Astralabius

> In a scale of 0 to 10, what do you guys think is the chance of DamiJon became a canon? (*-*)/


Zero. The super sons story in the Robin anniversary special made it pretty clear Tomasi sees them as best friends and Jon basically admits to seeing Damian as his brother.
DC isn't going for anything romantic with them, no matter what age the characters currently have.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> By the way, since Catwoman Anniversary issue I'm interested to see how Damian would get along with Helena (Selina's pregnancy isn't canon, I understand). Yeah, I know, he met older version from Earth-2, but I really would like to see that type of dynamic, when he's older brother with his little sister hanging around. 
> Damian as Batman and Helena as his Robin, that would be something.


Me toooo I was so excited for see how Damian would feel with baby Helena, I don't understand why it can't be canon.
But if they made a reboot maybe Helena can appers before and the story began with Helena being 6 or something like this. I remember when I read Spider-man they rebooted the universe SO hard that the story comeback when Peter was in highschool.
If in Batman Tim make a reboot when he was never Robin and then a reboot when Tim, yes, was Robin again, they could just make Cat-Bat happen before the current timeline.
Or.... Helena could come from a Time travel with 6 (because I want to see her being a child).

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/byavasan



https://twitter.com/langbuliang



https://twitter.com/97huayi

----------


## CPSparkles

batman and Robin




https://twitter.com/shirahamakamome




https://twitter.com/dc_ypyp

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/dc_ypyp



https://twitter.com/Quic19




https://twitter.com/shirahamakamome

----------


## sifighter

Anyone know if there is any DCeased fan art of Damian as Batman, maybe alongside the new Trinity or Wallace or at the very least Jon. I know there was a really good one with Green Canary but besides that I’ve seen nothing. 

Figure if we get good Damian Beyond fanart there might be some good DCeased Bat Damian fan art.

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/OtterTheAuthor

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/OtterTheAuthor



https://twitter.com/Kobz21

the 3 D's



https://twitter.com/CroissantWren

----------


## CPSparkles

Family Feud by Stephen Byrne







https://twitter.com/StephenByrne86

----------


## TheCape

> Family Feud by Stephen Byrne
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/StephenByrne86


That's not gonna end well for the batfamily.

Still, amazing artwork.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Anyone know if there is any DCeased fan art of Damian as Batman, maybe alongside the new Trinity or Wallace or at the very least Jon. I know there was a really good one with Green Canary but besides that I’ve seen nothing. 
> 
> Figure if we get good Damian Beyond fanart there might be some good DCeased Bat Damian fan art.


I follow #damianwayne tag on IG, so always some couple appears.
I found this just now in TT
https://twitter.com/gozerdor/
status/1284541905800327168/photo/1
I think if you just follow #dceased in some socialweb you will find.

----------


## adrikito

> The Batman Who Laughs... mini-series, was it? Was number #1 in sales. So yeah, when it comes to just comics, he's more popular than Harley


The JOKER is who deserves that popularity no him.

I think that I will try to avoid all related with this character.. I HATE HIM. Better focus in the normal comics and avoid him and Perpetua.




> From solicitation, Zeh-Ro arc ends on September, and on october is start of 'First Contact arc', with Bruce tries to kill Terry it seems.


You are right. I forgot it.. Anyway. No matter.. I will continue the comic. Is not like I was watching it for Damian.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

Hey, guys! Tom Taylor is hinting that Injustice 3 is coming! So I guess we will soon see Damian there? Though no one knows yet what it will be about.

----------


## dietrich

> Hey, guys! Tom Taylor is hinting that Injustice 3 is coming! So I guess we will soon see Damian there? Though no one knows yet what it will be about.


I hope so cos I'm liking what he's doing with Damian.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Hey, guys! Tom Taylor is hinting that Injustice 3 is coming! So I guess we will soon see Damian there? Though no one knows yet what it will be about.


I mean, there's only so much left that he can do with it at this point.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I doubt it. Jon is about to get into a relationship in LOSH and Damian in the animated series is hetero. I know they could be revealed as Bi or in the closet like Damian from The Just universe but I don't see it. Writers seem keen to pair them up with members of the opposite sex.


I am not reading LOSH : / who will be stay with Jon?

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Zero
> 
> Batwoman was created 15 years ago and unable to maintain a relationship
> 
> The only gay couple that's able to maintain a relationship is a parody of Batman and Superman
> 
> Also they're underage offsprings of DC's biggest characters that's almost as old and sacred as Mickey Mouse


I don't like Batwoman... She is so forced.
But Harley and Ivy are a couple, and a nice couple.

***it's not about Damian but I just remembered, Deadpool and Loki said more than one time they are pansexual, but if you write "canon deadpool gay kiss" or "canon Loki gay kiss" there is absolutely no images, just a couple of jokes of Deadpool saying Deadpool things for Peter.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I doubt it. Jon is about to get into a relationship in LOSH and Damian in the animated series is hetero. I know they could be revealed as Bi or in the closet like Damian from The Just universe but I don't see it. Writers seem keen to pair them up with members of the opposite sex.


For me this is no much strong argument. Because reboots and things like this, but totally agree is easy for writers make hetero couples AND when there is gay couples it happens more with womans.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Zero. The super sons story in the Robin anniversary special made it pretty clear Tomasi sees them as best friends and Jon basically admits to seeing Damian as his brother.
> DC isn't going for anything romantic with them, no matter what age the characters currently have.


Would be weird with Jon being 10 anybody declares he and Damian are in love. I think best friends or brothers is the best mach for 10 years 13 years boys relationship.
Couples change so fast some times, like, I got Red Arrow becoming in love for Kid Flash, but when he liked she back was suddenly. And also how he and Raven became together and broke up was so bad wrote.
Raven and Damian in movie was a lovely couple, but there is no indication they like each other in comics too.
How a character feel about each generally is more well done in movies than comics.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

When I talked about DamiJon, don't need to be in normal time line or soon it's could be a totally different world and write in 10 years since now. I just would like to see in a official comic.

My thing with DamiJon is: thinking about who would be the better sweet heart for Damian, I can't think anyone better than Jon, is just not a forced  couple to me... Maybe in 20 years so? =-=

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> That's not gonna end well for the batfamily.
> 
> Still, amazing artwork.


They will all became friends in the end  :Big Grin:

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Where is this from?

----------


## Fergus

> Where is this from?


Teen titans [new 52]

----------


## Fergus

> Family Feud by Stephen Byrne
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/StephenByrne86


Is this by the guy who did the Justice League v Power Rangers title? 

This should be a crossover.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Is this by the guy who did the Justice League v Power Rangers title? 
> 
> This should be a crossover.


Eh, good luck. Don't see Disney or WB agreeing on any such thing for the forseeable future.

Also, no expert on the Spiders, but there are a few Bats not present there.

----------


## ddamiqn

my question is how are they going to pick which ending to follow in the possible injustice 3? i know there are the comics and everything, but if i recall correctly in the game there's multiple endings (like damian becoming a yellow lantern, the uh 'masters of the universe' crossover which was... unique, etc etc) so i wonder what they could possible do with that. that is if this is an injustice 3

//aw crap didnt quote whOOPS . to be fair first post. i am trying

----------


## Morgoth

> my question is how are they going to pick which ending to follow in the possible injustice 3? i know there are the comics and everything, but if i recall correctly in the game there's multiple endings (like damian becoming a yellow lantern, the uh 'masters of the universe' crossover which was... unique, etc etc) so i wonder what they could possible do with that. that is if this is an injustice 3
> 
> //aw crap didnt quote whOOPS . to be fair first post. i am trying


Very easy, they just will use Batman ending. It is unlikely that many people will complain.
Superman ending was used in Masters of the Universe crossover, if I remember correctly.

----------


## sifighter

Aren’t the “multiple endings” just character specific endings if you beat their challenge towers? Honestly I assumed that those weren’t canon and I figured just pick the Batman ending from the choice of Batman or Superman. Sure they could very well pick to explore the Superman ending, however I don’t see Superman bending the wills and minds of others with Brainiac tech will make for a compelling story. Although I could be completely and utterly wrong on that part since who knows what Taylor is capable of.

But honestly I expect it to follow the Batman ending, with a new Justice League with Supergirl and a return of other characters from the comics. Heck my hope is for a time jump, maybe get a new generation of heroes with Connor Lance-Queen and Lucy Quinn or Black Lightning’s kids or Rose Constantine or evening some people completely new; as I recall we need a new Dr. Fate and Killer Croc and Orca were expecting a kid. He’s done a good job of it in DCeased why not Injustice I say.

----------


## Blue22

Yeah just like in most fighting games, the character endings aren't actually canon. The only ones that matter are the two story endings, and I'm almost 100% certain they're going with the Batman one *if* the third game is a continuation of this story (Netherrealm loves their reboots). 

Honestly, part of me is hoping they start fresh (I was never a huge fan of this universe's Damian and I straight up hate its Wonder Woman) and ditch the tired "Heroes hate each other. Batman is always right." approach to the story. And if they don't then I at least hope they let Taylor do most of the heavy lifting, story-wise, because what he's written for the comics has been miles better than what the game's writers have done (and if they're the same people who've been writing the past three MK stories, I'm not surprised). But alas, I doubt that will be the case.

Oh well, at least the gameplay is usually really fun.

----------


## Eckri

Speaking of Injustice
There are inconsistencies between their comics and the game themselves. Damian killing Zsasz and joining superman in the prologue of Injustice 2, while the comics he joined Superman after knocking Dick into a rock causing his death. Plus meeting Supergirl before the game's events, and a personality difference in the prequel comic to I2 and the game.

There's no doubt a prequel comic to Injustice 3 will happen, just hoping some consistency between their stories in the comic and game.

----------


## AmiMizuno

Damian and Bruce. What do you guys think about their relationship? There is often a weird thing with Bruce and his own family. That Dick is the real father figure. Sure Bruce can be loving and care but he also can be difficult.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

Well, the mystery about Injustice (or not) continues, but Tom Taylor shared a panel that apparently is of this new thing and in it we can see Robin, Nightwing and Batman!



What does it mean, though, no idea.

----------


## ddamiqn

does anyone have a screenshot or picture of damian's profile in the DC Comics Ultimate Character Guide New Edition (2019) version? while i was scrounging around here yesterday someone said that a user (i dont recall who) had a majority of the batfamily profiles saved, but i couldn't end up finding his.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Damian and Bruce. What do you guys think about their relationship? There is often a weird thing with Bruce and his own family. That Dick is the real father figure. Sure Bruce can be loving and care but he also can be difficult.


https://fyeahbatmanandrobin.tumblr.c...uce-and-damian

This is a really good analysis about Bruce and Damian relationship. Some sentence I'd love to highlight, because it's so hilarious and correct.

"Dick faced challenging circumstances for wrangling a child who was already challenging to begin with, but his patience and understanding convinced Damian that he was a worthy mentor and friend. Bruce doesnt quite share Dicks generosity of spirit. He loves Damian, as he loves all of his children, but hes extremely authoritative and tends to be harsh when disobeyed. And though Bruce had his share of raising children, the old standby 'Im Batman and youll do as I say' approach didnt always work with a tiny Robin who was all too eager to yell right back in his face."

"See, Dick and Damian gradually develop mutual trust and respect over the course of their partnership. But Bruce and Damian literally have to be thrown the fuck into a fire with stuff exploding and someone trying to murder them and reveal their secrets before they say, Eh, okay, youre alright to work with, I guess.

"Thats just how the Wayne boys roll. They are both willful, dominant personalities and they dedicate half their time to out-melodrama-ing the other. (This is much of the reason why I adore them. They are often unintentionally hilarious.)" 

Truly remind me of a pair of bull that butting their heads with each other. But for me, they have great potential to be father and son. Sure, Dick and Damian has great bond, but in the end of the day, Bruce is Damian's father. As much as I love their bond, for Dick's sake, I don't want Dick to have responsibilities of Damian when Bruce is present. As independent man and hero, Dick deserves to have his own life and his own circle of people, not only as Bruce and/or Damian matador. 
Besides, both Damian and Bruce are devoted to each other (Nobody's arc, Gotham resistance, Robin Rises, DoTF tie ins). If only all Rebirth writers are not collectively agree to break their relationship for the sake of melodrama. Synder refused to use him, not his fault but it makes him distant from Damian especially when Duke is present. King with his Bat/Cat narrative, I'll never forgive him for creating that damned City of Bane. Percy and Glass, enough said. Only Tomasi who was willing to write them as decent father and son, and God it must be painful for Tomasi to write Tec issue 1029 that have Damian and Bruce probably will fight against each other, when he already worked hard to build Bruce and Damian relationship.

----------


## Morgoth

Am I the only one who believes that this arc in 'Tec will ultimately lead to Damian's relationship with Bruce at least ceasing to be hostile?
Come on, Damian's current plot was not written by people from the Bat-Office, now completely different people will already be engaged in his story, including Tomasi, who seems to be working on the direction of Batfamily together with Tynion. Unless there is a lot of editorial pressure there (but after DiDio leaves, they have no reason to do so), it's likely Tomasi's goal is to get away from the Teen Titans run.
I may be too optimistic, but I really don't see the point in letting Tomasi write the villainous Damian.

----------


## Korath

Well, I just hope you're wrong. I've no interest in defanged, teenified Damian as was used in most of Rebirth personnaly, it's really not a take I like. PLus, Bruce's been so toxic to everyone in the Bat-Family but especially Damian that having him losing his son for good would be well-deserved.

That and I find the prospect of an antagonistic/anti-heroic Damian far more appealing that a retrad of "his the bad egg Robin" or something.

But considering that DC seems to have noticed that Tim Drake can't be anything else than Robin and him returning to the mantle as seen with Joker War, I think DC wants Damian out of the larger Bat-family, which is probably for the best for his character. There is a lot more stories to be told - and better ones - with a Damian on the outs with everyone, seeking his place in the world and forging his own destiny.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Well, I just hope you're wrong. I've no interest in defanged, teenified Damian as was used in most of Rebirth personnaly, it's really not a take I like. PLus, Bruce's been so toxic to everyone in the Bat-Family but especially Damian that having him losing his son for good would be well-deserved.
> 
> That and I find the prospect of an antagonistic/anti-heroic Damian far more appealing that a retrad of "his the bad egg Robin" or something.
> 
> But considering that DC seems to have noticed that Tim Drake can't be anything else than Robin and him returning to the mantle as seen with Joker War, I think DC wants Damian out of the larger Bat-family, which is probably for the best for his character. *There is a lot more stories to be told - and better ones - with a Damian on the outs with everyone, seeking his place in the world and forging his own destiny.*


Just to say; that's been Jason's thing since New52 began. Not to say Damian can't go his own path or anything, just that it is a well tread path now.

----------


## Morgoth

We'll see, but I doubt they will do that. I believe, that even this entire TT storyline was made just as another bridge to 5G. Which is no more.
And Tynion said he wants to close the gaps in the family, because they are already tired of these eternal gaps between them. It would be extremely strange to bring back everyone, but leave a thirteen-year-old teenager behind.
And also WB certainly won't allow to do anything radical, we can't forget about them as well, they already interfered their plans for Damian in the past. So, I'm sure that they will reduce this to a minimum. Maybe next year, but that's how it will end.

----------


## Fergus

> Just to say; that's been Jason's thing since New52 began. Not to say Damian can't go his own path or anything, just that it is a well tread path now.


I mean it's a pretty common comic trope 
Before Jason Dick was Renegade and Alfred was The Outsiders before that. It's a Trope yes and not a new one but the little we saw from Anti-Hero Damian seems more interesting/creative than batmember with gun which Kate also does

Damian in TT had a plan for his path.The Terminus Agenda.
A well thought out solution to improve Batman's methods and reduce the number of criminals on the streets. Something Jason has never been done.

I enjoyed what Priest was set up with Damian and Deathstroke. I know the Deathstroke/Bat connection's already been done with Dick back in TT but I really enjoyed Damian and Slade's dynamic so that could be explored further with Damian as an anti hero.

 However you do have a point. Why divide the fanbase for antiheroic Batfamily member's.
Besides Damian isn't moving on to another identity. This is just an arc.

Jason doesn't go against Batman's ways. He plays by it. Agreeing to no killing and using non lethal rounds.

----------


## Fergus

> Well, the mystery about Injustice (or not) continues, but Tom Taylor shared a panel that apparently is of this new thing and in it we can see Robin, Nightwing and Batman!
> 
> 
> 
> What does it mean, though, no idea.


So it's not Injustice 3 but I see Nightwing and Superman and that's got me interested?

----------


## Astralabius

> I mean it's a pretty common comic trope 
> Before Jason Dick was Renegade and Alfred was The Outsiders before that. It's a Trope yes and not a new one but the little we saw from Anti-Hero Damian seems more interesting/creative than batmember with gun which Kate also does
> 
> Damian in TT had a plan for his path.The Terminus Agenda.
> A well thought out solution to improve Batman's methods and reduce the number of criminals on the streets. Something Jason has never been done.
> 
> I enjoyed what Priest was set up with Damian and Deathstroke. I know the Deathstroke/Bat connection's already been done with Dick back in TT but I really enjoyed Damian and Slade's dynamic so that could be explored further with Damian as an anti hero.
> 
>  However you do have a point. Why divide the fanbase for antiheroic Batfamily member's.
> ...


It wasn't well thought out and all of Damian's methods failed. He hasn't improved anything. The only thing he achieved was getting isolated from everyone and getting called a monster.

Damian isn't an anti-hero in Teen Titans, he's the villain.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I mean it's a pretty common comic trope 
> Before Jason Dick was Renegade and Alfred was The Outsiders before that. It's a Trope yes and not a new one but the little we saw from Anti-Hero Damian seems more interesting/creative than batmember with gun which Kate also does
> 
> Damian in TT had a plan for his path.The Terminus Agenda.
> A well thought out solution to improve Batman's methods and reduce the number of criminals on the streets. Something Jason has never been done.
> 
> I enjoyed what Priest was set up with Damian and Deathstroke. I know the Deathstroke/Bat connection's already been done with Dick back in TT but I really enjoyed Damian and Slade's dynamic so that could be explored further with Damian as an anti hero.
> 
>  However you do have a point. Why divide the fanbase for antiheroic Batfamily member's.
> ...


Er, about that... Ever since Jason "shot" Penguin with a blank (and getting summarily beaten to a pulp by Bruce because Bruce didn't trust him), Jason has been on the outs with the Bats as a whole (though not Kate, it should be noted). Jason killed some bikers that were attacking an FBI agent, a guy posing as his father in an otherwise abandoned prison, some would-be assassins, and a number of basically eldritch abominations.

----------


## Blue22

> Just to say; that's been Jason's thing since New52 began. Not to say Damian can't go his own path or anything, just that it is a well tread path now.


That and there are many ways for Damian to go out on his own and do his own thing without making him go down the absolutely depressing route that he's been on for a while now. Damian's a tragic character but part of what's made his journey so great for me is how hard he was trying to not let those tragedies define him and shape the kind of person he'd become. Damian softening or being "defanged" isn't something that started in Rebirth or with his friendship with Jon. And it damn sure hasn't weakened him. He's been on the road to becoming a good person since even before Flashpoint. That's kinda the whole reason Talia cloned (and later killed) him in the first place. 

I was happy with how he'd progressed before he died. I was happy with how he progressed when he came back. I was happy with how his relationship with Bruce had progressed. I was more than happy when he was finally able to say he had more actual friends than just Dick. What I haven't been happy about is how a lot of the main titles that he stars in seem to be hellbent on backtracking on a lot of the progress that he's made.

I'm not saying Damian's character has to be all sunshine and rainbows and completely free from any pain or hardship now. Hell, I don't even care if he and Bruce ever really make up. He'll always be a jerk. He'll always be rough around the edges. He'll probably always struggle. And I wouldn't have him any other way. But the way he's been handled for a while now is just...overboard. It's not entertaining. It's not even all that interesting. It's just...sad. Like how a lot of DC felt when Didio took over for Johns. Just....sad. I'm just over all the vilifying of this poor kid when he's spent so much of his existence trying not to be the villain.

----------


## Fergus

> It wasn't well thought out and all of Damian's methods failed. He hasn't improved anything. The only thing he achieved was getting isolated from everyone and getting called a monster.
> 
> Damian isn't an anti-hero in Teen Titans, he's the villain.


No he was an anti hero. He was using illegal and ethically questionable thing's for heroic reasons. That is an anti hero.

His plan was well thought out and layered. He also had a failsafe backup plan and another back up. You might not like or agree with them but he had a plan.

Tough prison - the terminus failsafe that was designed to kill all the prisoners should they escape - brain-washing and forced rehabilitation- - employment.
That is a detailed plan. Rocket science compared to the plan of punch crime in the face one bad guy at a time.

No shit it failed. He was supposed to fail that is the whole objective of the story. To get Damian to fail remember? 

for him to fall? Which is the reason why his forgetful team mates forgot that they went along with this and suddenly disavowed him. You yourself posted that on this thread.
The story was Damian failing. 

The writer posted that conversation on instagram where he confirms this. A copy of that conversation is posted on this very thread.
DC Notion has been setting this up and even spoiled this mandated isolation way back in 2016. Remember?

Batman's plan also failed and has been a failure for 80yrs. 

You read the issues, commented on them and commented on the writers post. You saw the  plan laid out in the comics. Those elements are objective information we saw. They are not subjective. 
You might not like the direction which I can understand but to claim that he didn't have a detailed plan is not true and you know because you read an discussed those detailed plans on this thread.

Whether his plans worked or not was never brought up. These are crime fighters. If their plan worked then we wouldn't have comics now would we?

which is why they always fail but that's the whole reason we read comics. To see them try.

----------


## Fergus

> Er, about that... Ever since Jason "shot" Penguin with a blank (and getting summarily beaten to a pulp by Bruce because Bruce didn't trust him), Jason has been on the outs with the Bats as a whole (though not Kate, it should be noted). Jason killed some bikers that were attacking an FBI agent, a guy posing as his father in an otherwise abandoned prison, some would-be assassins, and a number of basically eldritch abominations.


 Ever since he shot Penguin which was like last year. Are we sure those guy were killed because Penguin wasn't but they made it seem like he was.
The 1st time he has been shown or flat out confirmed he uses non lethal rounds.

Other times he does leg shots or something like that. 

There's nothing showing that he's actually doing anything that should cause him to be cast out or his methods frowned on. Though what he did to Black mask was legit brutal and dark. That pushed the envelop.
Bruce does far worse and uses dark and more questionable methods so I'm trying to find what exactly makes him an Outlaw Bat besides the use of firearms which is basically Alfred's fighting style for decades now.

I don't see the reason why Bruce has issues with his methods. The fallout with Bruce that led to him leaving could have been minimised if Jason had just said to a raging Bruce as he started his attacked " I used rubber bullets man. Calm down" in a very loud voice.

That would have stopped the physical abuse before it became a full on beat down. Sure they'd still have the issue of Bruce smacking his kid which is far less likely to result in jason leaving the family.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Ever since he shot Penguin which was like last year. Are we sure those guy were killed because Penguin wasn't but they made it seem like he was.
> The 1st time he has been shown or flat out confirmed he uses non lethal rounds.
> 
> Other times he does leg shots or something like that. 
> 
> There's nothing showing that he's actually doing anything that should cause him to be cast out or his methods frowned on. Though what he did to Black mask was legit brutal and dark. That pushed the envelop.
> Bruce does far worse and uses dark and more questionable methods so I'm trying to find what exactly makes him an Outlaw Bat besides the use of firearms which is basically Alfred's fighting style for decades now.
> 
> I don't see the reason why Bruce has issues with his methods. The fallout with Bruce that led to him leaving could have been minimised if Jason had just said to a raging Bruce as he started his attacked " I used rubber bullets man. Calm down" in a very loud voice.
> ...


Uh, yeah. The immediate issues after Roy leaves for Sanctuary and what not, Jason legit kills a bunch of bad guys. Because after Jason "shot" Penguin, Roy got him out of Gotham and Jason stayed out for a good while. Partly because Bruce did such a number on him, and partly to tackle an large network of criminals. And when Jason does come back to Gotham, he makes it public he's alive, takes over the Iceberg Lounge, kills some assassins sent after him, hands the keys over to Suzie Sue and her sisters (no strings attached), and then ends up becoming a teacher to a bunch of would-be villain teens. Since, the only people he's killed are the Untitled.

----------


## Light of Justice

> So it's not Injustice 3 but I see Nightwing and Superman and that's got me interested?


Don't know for sure. Taylor teased 'J' word and 'Fighting for Justice' poster. But yeah, I'm also interested to see Nightwing on Tom Taylor's work. Probably only a flashback, but it looks like he's in active action, not only dead and served as emotional conflict for Bruce and Damian.

----------


## Light of Justice

> It wasn't well thought out and all of Damian's methods failed. He hasn't improved anything. The only thing he achieved was getting isolated from everyone and getting called a monster.
> 
> Damian isn't an anti-hero in Teen Titans, he's the villain.


I think I've posted this before, but on my dictionary, villain is the one who intentionally and enjoyed hurting innocent people. TT Damian, as wicked as he is, he never wants to hurt innocent people. Instead, his pushing force is because he doesn't want to see innocent people hurting by villain's acts. It shows on restaurant scene, even though it's random people and we barely care for them, they're still innocent civilian whom Damian cares on that story. Brother Blood case is also for the sake of civilian lives, if Damian really killed him. But I understand if your definition of villains is different from mine, after all I think DC shares the same opinion as you regarding Damian's brutal act. And if DC want to treat Damian as villain (as implied on Tec' solicitation) because of his acts, then I can't do anything besides accept it.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Damian and Bruce. What do you guys think about their relationship? There is often a weird thing with Bruce and his own family. That Dick is the real father figure. Sure Bruce can be loving and care but he also can be difficult.


Dick was in one year a better father to Damian than Bruce is being in 3, and Damian was Dick first pupil, and Bruce already had 3 before Damian.
I see Bruce like a terrible father and partner that just can express himself with hostility. He can work with adults, but don't with someone that is still insecure about what is his place in the world that are the three younger bat boys.
Dick is Dick, he brings the best of anyone and express how he feel about another person, and Damian had this good moments about making Dick proud and smiling, I think one of the best Damian's evolution was becoming more selfsecurity by feeling he is doing things right and having less fear of his Al Ghul blood; Bruce is more hard to understand, I think he made Damian confuse and this is frustrated and Damian can't express how this makes he feels, so he starts to argue and since Bruce can't deal with don't have control everything became a big snowball for both.
Both are terrible in communication, aggressive and stubborn, but Bruce is the adult and the father.

Buuuut, I have a good feeling that this two will approximate still this year after this getting worst, they will notice how they don't want to hurt each other feelings and became more near and pacific for each other, and there is going to have a Bathuge. (!!!)

Bruce don't need to be the best father of 2020, but would be good if he doesn't end it being the worst.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Well, I just hope you're wrong. I've no interest in defanged, teenified Damian as was used in most of Rebirth personnaly, it's really not a take I like. PLus, Bruce's been so toxic to everyone in the Bat-Family but especially Damian that having him losing his son for good would be well-deserved.
> 
> That and I find the prospect of an antagonistic/anti-heroic Damian far more appealing that a retrad of "his the bad egg Robin" or something.
> 
> But considering that DC seems to have noticed that Tim Drake can't be anything else than Robin and him returning to the mantle as seen with Joker War, I think DC wants Damian out of the larger Bat-family, which is probably for the best for his character. There is a lot more stories to be told - and better ones - with a Damian on the outs with everyone, seeking his place in the world and forging his own destiny.


I am the only that like Tim becoming Drake more than Robin and hope he follow this new, good outfit, progressive path?

----------


## Light of Justice

> Just to say; that's been Jason's thing since New52 began. Not to say Damian can't go his own path or anything, just that it is a well tread path now.


I think Damian's journey to search his own path will be different from Jason's journey to search his own destiny  Unlike Jason, Damian's action is always defined by his blood. It's both his unique aspect, but also his tragedy. Dick detached himself from Bruce and forge his own identity by forming Teen Titans? Readers sees that as his maturity development. Jason ignores Bruce's killing taboo and give villains their ultimate justice? Readers sees that as Jason's character tragedies after his death and maturity after he saw the flaw on Bruce's method. Even Bruce once told Damian that Jason is the one who dares to do what Bruce can't, or something like that. But Damian? If he acts good = "Now that's Batman's son!" or "Finally he follows Batman's nurture". If he acts bad = "His Al-Ghul's blood emerges again" or "Terrorist, just like his grandfather". Even Alfred said about his similarity with Ra's Al-Ghul when he scolded him, and probably Alfred's last word to Damian before his death on Damian's watch. It's unhealthy, and definitely frustrating for any teenager, especially Damian. Also for me, as Damian's fans because of his character alone, not because he's related by blood with Batman or Ra's Al-Ghul. So if in future he wants to seek his own destiny, not as Batman's heir nor Al-Ghul's heir, but as Damian, I think it will not reduce Jason's uniqueness, because their purposes are different.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I am the only that like Tim becoming Drake more than Robin and hope he follow this new, good outfit, progressive path?


I have no problem with his suit, but I have plenty problems with his codename. Drake is a good superhero name for anyone who doesn't have Drake as his civilian surname, and want to hide his civilian identity. I refused to accept that Tim is dumb enough to risk himself like that. Having your surname as your heroic identity is not always bad, look at Dr. Strange. But if Tim want to use Drake as his heroic identity, he has to give up on his secret civilian identity, just like Dr.Strange.

----------


## Korath

> I am the only that like Tim becoming Drake more than Robin and hope he follow this new, good outfit, progressive path?


No, I liked it. But I think DC and Bendis noticed that it was largely not taken well and that they have decided that since this character can't be anything else than Robin without stealing huge chunks of Batman's mythos for himself (Red Robin after BATMAN R.I.P. basically) they have given up on moving him to his own identity and he'll just become Robin again full time.

Of coruse, my problem with Tim is that he aggravated all the rot and wrong choices for the Batman mythos ever since he was created, but that's another story.

Regarding Damian seeking his own destiny, I think it's easy to differentiate him from Jason. Red Hood deal with the here and now, he doesn't really want to change the system. He's a brutal vigilante, but at heart he doesn't seem to see a bigger picture. He just tries to be the best he can be and that's what makes him a really great character (and why I'm sadly afraid of seeing Lobdell go, in spite of his horrible actions and behavior... I don't want to see Jason devolve into Morrtison's insane psycho-killer ever again).

Damian can -should?- be the opportunity to make a Ra's al Ghul/Poison Ivy character for the current world : that is someone who sees the destruction Western Civilization and Capitalism are unleashing on the world, the ravages it does to everyone but the wealthiest among us, and decides to change it, no matter the cost. Not because he wants to cleanse the world of humans to return it to a pristine state like his grand-father. But because he believes that in spite of the suffering it'll cause, it'll be extremely beneficial to everyone in the long run.

----------


## Astralabius

> I think I've posted this before, but on my dictionary, villain is the one who intentionally and enjoyed hurting innocent people. TT Damian, as wicked as he is, he never wants to hurt innocent people. Instead, his pushing force is because he doesn't want to see innocent people hurting by villain's acts. It shows on restaurant scene, even though it's random people and we barely care for them, they're still innocent civilian whom Damian cares on that story. Brother Blood case is also for the sake of civilian lives, if Damian really killed him. But I understand if your definition of villains is different from mine, after all I think DC shares the same opinion as you regarding Damian's brutal act. And if DC want to treat Damian as villain (as implied on Tec' solicitation) because of his acts, then I can't do anything besides accept it.


My definition of villainy isn't really that important here. It also doesn't matter if we think Damian is right or wrong for criticizing Bruce's methods and killing criminals. What matters for Damian's future is how DC wants to present his actions.

I'm talking about how the story frames Damian's actions and in what role he's used in.
We might prefer Damian over his team members because we are fans of Damian and are in a lot of cases not the biggest fans of his team members, which is why we personally might side with him because we like him and have known him for a lot longer.
But the feeling I got while reading this book, but especially this arc was that we are not supposed to side with Damian, we are supposed to root for the team.
They are written as the ones who learned their lessons from their previous failures and are trying to come to terms with their actions, a sign that what they did isn't supposed to be seen as good, while Damian has become more extreme and refuses to abandon this path that hasn't been shown to work either.
The writer put pretty much all of the blame for everything on Damian to make redemption for the other characters (the characters he has to work with once Damian is gone, might I add) easier and he's writing him trying to get the others to join him on his murderous path to rid the world of all criminals.
I don't know about you, but when I read Damian's thoughts and his dialogue he didn't sound like an anti-hero to me, I thought it was pretty standard villain speak. It was pretty similar to what we heard from The Other, a villain who said to Damian he saw himself as hero, but the reader knew that he was definitely the villain.
In Teen Titans 43 Damian even talks about the future Djinn showed him
where he took the offer and became The Other, strongly implying that the future he saw is what he wants (something he already said when Djinn first showed it to him) and he's going to follow The Other's path to achieve it. The path of a villain.

----------


## Astralabius

> No he was an anti hero. He was using illegal and ethically questionable thing's for heroic reasons. That is an anti hero.
> 
> His plan was well thought out and layered. He also had a failsafe backup plan and another back up. You might not like or agree with them but he had a plan.
> 
> Tough prison - the terminus failsafe that was designed to kill all the prisoners should they escape - brain-washing and forced rehabilitation- - employment.
> That is a detailed plan. Rocket science compared to the plan of punch crime in the face one bad guy at a time.
> 
> No shit it failed. He was supposed to fail that is the whole objective of the story. To get Damian to fail remember? 
> 
> ...


Dude, if you can't see how The Other, definitely a villain, and the way Damian acts in the current Teen Titans arc is almost exactly the same I can't help you. The Other even told Damian how similar their methods are when they met again and the current arc hits the point home even more. The book doesn't want you to think that Damian's actions are good or at least justified. That's why everyone besides Damian regrets what they have done. That's why Djinn told Damian that what they did was wrong. Why Roundhouse calls Damian a monster.
Please explain to me why Heretic is a villain and Damian is an anti-hero. You see him as an anti-hero because you like the character and probably just don't want to admit that Damian's current actions are villanous.

You are also working under the wrong assumption that DC treats Batman and not Batman characters equally.
Yes, Bruce fails, but he is presented as noble and heroic while doing so. Damian is not. DC isn't fair. We all know Batman can get away with shit a character like Damian can only dream of.
And in all of this I'm not talking about what I see as villainous, I'm talking about how DC approaches this.

Damian broke Batman's rules, which is the dumbest thing you can do as a Batman character if you want to be seen as right, Bruce will find out what happened, they'll probably continue the trend from the Robin 80th anniversary special and Teen Titans and write Bruce as the concerned father, Damian will probably attack him so the blame for a physical fight can be pinned on him, he'll renounce the Robin mantle, probably shit on the robin mantle to make him even more unlikable and then he'll vanish until he shows up again in Detective Comics as an antagonist.

DC seems to want to put Tim back in the robin role, so this would also make the perfect opportunity to elevate Tim as Robin and partner to Batman.
DC plans with Batman in mind. It's not about making a good Damian story. Meaning that whatever happens will end with proving Bruce's methods as the superior ones.

----------


## Digifiend

> Eh, good luck. Don't see Disney or WB agreeing on any such thing for the forseeable future.
> 
> Also, no expert on the Spiders, but there are a few Bats not present there.


Plenty of Spiders missing too. It only used Batgirl (Barbara), Ghost-Spider (Gwen), Robin (Damian), Spider-Man (Miles), Batman (Bruce) and Spider-Man (Peter). They could've paired up Nightwing and Red Hood with the two Scarlet Spiders, Batman Beyond with Spider-Man 2099, Cass and Steph (the other Batgirls) with Anya (Spider-Girl) and Cindy (Silk), and Batwoman with Spider-Woman. And that's not even everyone on either side.




> I have no problem with his suit, but I have plenty problems with his codename. Drake is a good superhero name for anyone who doesn't have Drake as his civilian surname, and want to hide his civilian identity. I refused to accept that Tim is dumb enough to risk himself like that. Having your surname as your heroic identity is not always bad, look at Dr. Strange. But if Tim want to use Drake as his heroic identity, he has to give up on his secret civilian identity, just like Dr.Strange.


That's my problem with it too.




> I am not reading LOSH : / who will be stay with Jon?


Saturn Girl.

----------


## Morgoth

> Damian broke Batman's rules, which is the dumbest thing you can do as a Batman character if you want to be seen as right, Bruce will find out what happened, they'll probably continue the trend from the Robin 80th anniversary special and Teen Titans and write Bruce as the concerned father, Damian will probably attack him so the blame for a physical fight can be pinned on him, he'll renounce the Robin mantle, probably shit on the robin mantle to make him even more unlikable and then he'll vanish until he shows up again in Detective Comics as an antagonist.


But what's the point?
Whatever anyone says, the main goal is to sell comics. If you stubbornly follow a direction that people don't like, then sooner or later your comics will simply stop buying. Damian is relatively popular at the moment, so much so that the WB interfered with the writing process and are now shoving him into animation projects, leaving the rest behind.
If we get away from the question of opinion about Damian's future (there are many opinions here), there is another fact - the majority do not like this direction, this can be seen from the social media, it can be seen from the reviews, even TT sales fell. I can understand when it was with 5G - to make Luke Batman, they had to get Dick and Damian out of the way, because no character in the hierarchy is closer to the cloak than they are. And Damian, most likely, was supposed to be Luke's opponent in Ridley's run. But now the project is dead, everything has changed.
Therefore, the question remains open, what is the point of continuing to put pressure on this direction if only criticism will be the response? It's like situation with Bendis, when he stubbornly puts pressure on the aging Jon, while most keep insulting him for that. And yes, this decision did not justify itself in any way, at least because sales do not sit better. So why the hell they have to make decisions that are destructive for them? Let me guess, it will fail and they will ignore it in the future, or retcon it. They really like to create their own problems.

----------


## Korath

The point is to craft a better story than Damian as Robin forever ? 

I seriously don't understand the haters of the current TT run or this direction for Damian. Why do you want him to remain forever in the shadows of not only Batman but the three Robins who came before him ? Why don't you want him to explore his own potential and forge out his own destiny, instead of larping up to the Batman 666 or even the Beyond timelines ?

Like, what of values is there in such a scenario ? More father/son drama and then reconciliation ad nauseam when Bruce has proven that he doesn't deserve it and isn't even interested in caring for Damian ? That's just dumb.

----------


## Konja7

> The point is to craft a better story than Damian as Robin forever ? 
> 
> I seriously don't understand the haters of the current TT run or this direction for Damian. Why do you want him to remain forever in the shadows of not only Batman but the three Robins who came before him ? Why don't you want him to explore his own potential and forge out his own destiny, instead of larping up to the Batman 666 or even the Beyond timelines ?
> 
> Like, what of values is there in such a scenario ? More father/son drama and then reconciliation ad nauseam when Bruce has proven that he doesn't deserve it and isn't even interested in caring for Damian ? That's just dumb.


The problem is DC won't allow that Damian explore his potential or grows too much, because Batman will be too old.

The Robin identity is a protection to Damian at some level, since it strengthen his connection with Batman and it is an importante brand. If he doesn't have this identity, it is more likely DC just would totally retcon Damian.

----------


## Restingvoice

> The point is to craft a better story than Damian as Robin forever ? 
> 
> I seriously don't understand the haters of the current TT run or this direction for Damian. Why do you want him to remain forever in the shadows of not only Batman but the three Robins who came before him ? Why don't you want him to explore his own potential and forge out his own destiny, instead of larping up to the Batman 666 or even the Beyond timelines ?
> 
> Like, what of values is there in such a scenario ? More father/son drama and then reconciliation ad nauseam when Bruce has proven that he doesn't deserve it and isn't even interested in caring for Damian ? That's just dumb.


Why does he need to be out of Batman's shadow? He's a Robin and a minor. He should be under Bat-dad's shadow until he grows up. I'm not interested in unnecessary drama with unclear direction. Do they have a new independent identity prepared?

----------


## Morgoth

> The point is to craft a better story than Damian as Robin forever ? 
> 
> I seriously don't understand the haters of the current TT run or this direction for Damian. Why do you want him to remain forever in the shadows of not only Batman but the three Robins who came before him ? Why don't you want him to explore his own potential and forge out his own destiny, instead of larping up to the Batman 666 or even the Beyond timelines ?
> 
> Like, what of values is there in such a scenario ? More father/son drama and then reconciliation ad nauseam when Bruce has proven that he doesn't deserve it and isn't even interested in caring for Damian ? That's just dumb.


I personally even don't believe they will follow this direction, Tomasi right now in Bat-Office and seemingly play a big role, so, I don't believe he won't try to cancel all of this. And Tynion has no reason to oppose him. 
Lots of people just don't trust them and that's understantable. Everybody knows, that editorial don't like him, Morrison even confirmed it, he wanted to kill him, because many writers like Snyder complained even about his existence. Who can confirm, that it's about crafting good Damian story and not about taking him out of equasion? They can make him a villain, and that's dumb, in my opinion. They would do this or kill him many years ago, if he wouldn't become popular.
I want him to have his own alias, I even want them to get rid of Robin mantle at all, enough of this, they should let Damian and Tim have their own journeys, just like Dick and Jason. But to make someone like Ra's out of him, no, sorry, but his psychopathic grandfather and mother are already enough, just not interested in that. 
But again, just my opinion.

----------


## Fergus

Why do fans on this thread think TT isn't selling or that everyone dislikes this storyline?

Comics are a small market so while ideally it's nice to have a high selling comic. The more important goal is to break out of the comic market. To gain popularity and create demand from fans who DO NOT read comics.

@Morgath I notice people saying things like DC is shoving Damian, Harley etc down our throats or how they are over used in comics.
Damian's popularity doesn't come from comics neither does Harleys or Jason Todd's.

Their popularity is due to cracking the general market. They are in demand for various reasons. Some just because they have guns and look cool in games [cough]

Some are well created nuanced characters, overflowing with potential and personality that creators are drawn to them and inspired to create with them.

Whatever the reasons they are popular not just because of the comics.

The MLB tag on AO3 isn't overflowing with Damian material because of comics.

Damian's value lies in the fact that he is more than generic Robin. Writers can do more with him and that is what they are doing. 

On the subject of Damian moving out of Bruce's Shadow, He's not about nor should he. He is Bruce's kid.

On the subject of Robin. Damian is Robin. Sure he's about to walk away and we've seen Drake in a Robin costume but we all know that Damian is coming back not only that I don't even see WB pausing for as a to consider changing who the official Robin is.

Damian can't move on from Robin just yet since he is 13. He can't become an independent hero, a serious antagonist or even Dick sidekick because he is 13. A minor and Bruce's supporting character.

He is the Son of Batman not The Gray Son's Son.


Also Tomasi doesn't have that much powers in the Bat Office. Tynion being Synder yes man has far more power than Tomasi. 

Lol Tomasi isn't even involved in the interviews talking about the direction the bat books are heading.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Am I the only one who believes that this arc in 'Tec will ultimately lead to Damian's relationship with Bruce at least ceasing to be hostile?
> Come on, Damian's current plot was not written by people from the Bat-Office, now completely different people will already be engaged in his story, including Tomasi, who seems to be working on the direction of Batfamily together with Tynion. Unless there is a lot of editorial pressure there (but after DiDio leaves, they have no reason to do so), it's likely Tomasi's goal is to get away from the Teen Titans run.
> I may be too optimistic, but I really don't see the point in letting Tomasi write the villainous Damian.


I think I shouldn't, but I am so optimistic.
Damian said the verb on future in "I will start showing what justice is" = Damian didn't killed BloodBrother because, will not follow a evil path!
Dick is coming back = it will make Damian feel like he has someone that care about him in Gotham!
Barbara was angry because Bruce did not take care of Damian = so Bruce is wrong and will apolagize and everything will become better!
Batman is with a happier outfit = so he will become more warm with everybody!
Tim wered Drake outfit ONE time = he don't want to be Robin anymore and Damian will keep the R!
Jon will come for ask about Damian in volume #46 4+6 is 10, 10 is a cabalistic number = everybody will became friends!

I just can't control my optimins this days X''''D.
I don't think anymore the story is going to a way that Damian is tottaly  wrong and nobody will defend him. I think DC will show he made many mistakes but he is not a lost cause that no one wants near. There is many charcters that care about him now, Damian looks so scared of rejection that he do things that will make everybody hate him, so he has a motivation for run away, but if the others show they just want Damian to be happy and will help because they like him, Damian can try belive in his place in Gotham.

Yeah, too much optimistic.

----------


## Fergus

> I think I shouldn't, but I am so optimistic.
> Damian said the verb on future in "I will start showing what justice is" = Damian didn't killed BloodBrother because, will not follow a evil path!
> Dick is coming back = it will make Damian feel like he has someone that care about him in Gotham!
> Barbara was angry because Bruce did not take care of Damian = so Bruce is wrong and will apolagize and everything will become better!
> Batman is with a happier outfit = so he will become more warm with everybody!
> Tim wered Drake outfit ONE time = he don't want to be Robin anymore and Damian will keep the R!
> Jon will come for ask about Damian in volume #46 4+6 is 10, 10 is a cabalistic number = everybody will became friends!
> 
> I just can't control my optimins this days X''''D.
> ...


You are being Optimistic but there are some thing's that you wish for which will happen or at the very least come close to happening.

Bruce and Damian will eventually in a short time
Dick and Damian will have their reunion not counting the one we had in Batman Beyond.
Damian will be shown as having made a mistake which he has done. There will be no defence because there is no defence for what he did.

Tomasi will do a Tomasi if he writes the issue where they have it out.

Bruce will admit fault because with Damian regardless of writer Bruce is always never 100% comes out of it smelling of roses.

I don't know about Jon reappearing in the TT after his current visit but the SuperSons will continue to be a thing in one form or another.

Tim won't go back to Drake.
He will share the Robin mantle with Damian only he will be a Jarro type of Robin. Robin in name only who doesn't show up as a member of the Batfamily on outside media.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I think I've posted this before, but on my dictionary, villain is the one who intentionally and enjoyed hurting innocent people. TT Damian, as wicked as he is, he never wants to hurt innocent people. Instead, his pushing force is because he doesn't want to see innocent people hurting by villain's acts. It shows on restaurant scene, even though it's random people and we barely care for them, they're still innocent civilian whom Damian cares on that story. Brother Blood case is also for the sake of civilian lives, if Damian really killed him. But I understand if your definition of villains is different from mine, after all I think DC shares the same opinion as you regarding Damian's brutal act. And if DC want to treat Damian as villain (as implied on Tec' solicitation) because of his acts, then I can't do anything besides accept it.


For me Damian is still a hero if he is compared with the other heroes of DC. If Batman can be a hero putting bad guys in prisions that never work, broke characters necks and let them for die and saying for Bane "I will let you live because this is WORST than kill you", not what Damian did is worst than what his father done.
Damian could be a vilain if he is compareted to Nightwing, or a anti-hero compareted with Red Hood, but if Batman is a reference of hero I think he can't?
* I remembered that you post this before, I don't remember if I've wrote I agree, but re-think "villain is the one who intentionally and enjoyed hurting innocent people", there is many villains that don't enjoy hurting people but do this beliving is the right/only way for make the world better, like Magnus, Erik Killmonger (of Black Panter).
I think the idea of "innocent" are different depending on the context of a character. " anyone of the elite is innocent", "anyone who stoled and supported stoling Africa is innocent" "anyone who wasn't a Mutant is innocent". And that is a refflect of things that exis in real world. I will note name names, but you guys get what happened in WW1 WW2, Mexico, Russia, ditatures. I will stop here.

----------


## Morgoth

Damian and Dick will reunite in 'Tec, I think.
If DCConnect didn't lie, Mirror will hunt down entire Batfamily, while everyone in the city hates them because of the Joker War. Dick will play a role in this storyline for sure. Maybe Damian will even save him and everyone.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I have no problem with his suit, but I have plenty problems with his codename. Drake is a good superhero name for anyone who doesn't have Drake as his civilian surname, and want to hide his civilian identity. I refused to accept that Tim is dumb enough to risk himself like that. Having your surname as your heroic identity is not always bad, look at Dr. Strange. But if Tim want to use Drake as his heroic identity, he has to give up on his secret civilian identity, just like Dr.Strange.


"I refused to accept that Tim is dumb enough to risk himself like that." fheafweiuarhieawhjfdsjnsdfçoijsofah

I still think would be funny, but thinking in a more serious story he really can't be Drake. Tim don't know choose names, following his logic the next would be mc Donalds or Tim.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B5wEtLeFsWV/

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> No, I liked it. But I think DC and Bendis noticed that it was largely not taken well and that they have decided that since this character can't be anything else than Robin without stealing huge chunks of Batman's mythos for himself (Red Robin after BATMAN R.I.P. basically) they have given up on moving him to his own identity and he'll just become Robin again full time.
> 
> Of coruse, my problem with Tim is that he aggravated all the rot and wrong choices for the Batman mythos ever since he was created, but that's another story.
> 
> Regarding Damian seeking his own destiny, I think it's easy to differentiate him from Jason. Red Hood deal with the here and now, he doesn't really want to change the system. He's a brutal vigilante, but at heart he doesn't seem to see a bigger picture. He just tries to be the best he can be and that's what makes him a really great character (and why I'm sadly afraid of seeing Lobdell go, in spite of his horrible actions and behavior... I don't want to see Jason devolve into Morrtison's insane psycho-killer ever again).
> 
> Damian can -should?- be the opportunity to make a Ra's al Ghul/Poison Ivy character for the current world : that is someone who sees the destruction Western Civilization and Capitalism are unleashing on the world, the ravages it does to everyone but the wealthiest among us, and decides to change it, no matter the cost. Not because he wants to cleanse the world of humans to return it to a pristine state like his grand-father. But because he believes that in spite of the suffering it'll cause, it'll be extremely beneficial to everyone in the long run.


"Of coruse, my problem with Tim is that he aggravated all the rot and wrong choices for the Batman mythos ever since he was created, but that's another story." what do you mean?

"that is someone who sees the destruction Western Civilization and Capitalism are unleashing on the world" DC will not make a people who thinks like this a hero... even more in Batfamily, Damian would literally be the most opposit of Waynes Corporation possible... A character of this thinks or is make like a bored person, or a crazy villain like Poison...

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Damian's value lies in the fact that he is more than generic Robin. Writers can do more with him and that is what they are doing. 
> 
> On the subject of Damian moving out of Bruce's Shadow, He's not about nor should he. He is Bruce's kid.
> 
> On the subject of Robin. Damian is Robin. Sure he's about to walk away and we've seen Drake in a Robin costume but we all know that Damian is coming back not only that I don't even see WB pausing for as a to consider changing who the official Robin is.
> 
> Damian can't move on from Robin just yet since he is 13. He can't become an independent hero, a serious antagonist or even Dick sidekick because he is 13. A minor and Bruce's supporting character.
> 
> He is the Son of Batman not The Gray Son's Son.


Damian Wayne appreciation <3 <3 <3

I just don't agree he can't be Dick's sidekick, they was a good dinamic duo, and Dick said he was thinking about bring Damian when he moved. Nothing in comics is permanent, they could be together for some time at Bruce or Damian rethinking about reconnect, or Dick see he is not ready for this, or Damian decid he wants to try be part of a team again.
I will be killed by this, buuuuutttt, I really like Ric plot, The world come upsidedown, is very nice see he coming back and all the tramas, the personality change was well write, make sense... AND I know this will not keep forever, I also liked how Jason became so crazy for "battle for the cowl", maid the story exciting because the intense personality and idea of a tottaly diferent Batman. (and I liked the exagereted outfit)

----------


## dietrich

> "Of coruse, my problem with Tim is that he aggravated all the rot and wrong choices for the Batman mythos ever since he was created, but that's another story." what do you mean?


I think he means a few thing's which all started when Tim was created

- the whole Batman needs Robin which not only is a lie but undermines the Batman
- The end of the Dynamic Duo. Tim was created to distance Batman from Robin which was why Robin had a solo series and Tim didn't show up a lot in the batman titles.
- Batjerk became a thing in the 90's. Batman became a douche bag/jerk which is when the phrase was coined.

Thew 90's was a trash period for comics.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I think he means a few thing's which all started when Tim was created
> 
> - the whole Batman needs Robin which not only is a lie but undermines the Batman
> - The end of the Dynamic Duo. Tim was created to distance Batman from Robin which was why Robin had a solo series and Tim didn't show up a lot in the batman titles.
> - Batjerk became a thing in the 90's. Batman became a douche bag/jerk which is when the phrase was coined.
> 
> Thew 90's was a trash period for comics.


- I undertand why many peoples don't like "Batman needs a Robin" this is part of the conflict of "Batman works alone". Because of this I like different approach in different medias, like how Injustice is so dark but DC super hero girls is so full of joy. If you have 1 world and each writer get a different approach the story start to contradict itself.
- I didn't get the second one. Tim was a new Robin made for distance from Batman? What was the logistic? And why it's different of Dick that became a TT while was Robin?
Don't know about comics, but hero movies was very weird in 90's too.

*like in Harley tv show, Damian is away of his version of comics, but match so much with the show universe.

----------


## dietrich

> - I undertand why many peoples don't like "Batman needs a Robin" this is part of the conflict of "Batman works alone". Because of this I like different approach in different medias, like how Injustice is so dark but DC super hero girls is so full of joy. If you have 1 world and each writer get a different approach the story start to contradict itself.
> - I didn't get the second one. Tim was a new Robin made for distance from Batman? What was the logistic? And why it's different of Dick that became a TT while was Robin?
> Don't know about comics, but hero movies was very weird in 90's too.
> 
> *like in Harley tv show, Damian is away of his version of comics, but match so much with the show universe.


The 1st one isn't about Batman working alone. Batman need's Robin means that without Robin around Batman would go too far and likely kill. It means that Batman is so weak he is unable to stop himself from crossing the line.

The second one - DC doesn't want Robin in Batman. They want Batman comics free of young sidekick for whatever reason but Tim was created to be independent. 

Dick still; later appeared in Batman books but with the Robin title the writers didn't to use tim or write him with Batman except during crossovers.

----------


## Digifiend

Yeah, Tim was meant to be a more modern Robin, an independent hero instead of just Batman's sidekick. More like Spider-Man than Dick Grayson or Wally West or Roy Harper when they started out. Peter Parker was independent from the start, and that was the idea for Tim when he got his own title. Remember, initially, Azrael was Batman, and Tim was locked out of the Batcave!

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I always thought the "Batman needs a Robin" mean for a balance for Bruce feelings, like don't let him go so into the darks because Robin would be like a light or a point of optimism when Bruce is too hopeless, but if the idea is more about prevents Batman to kill the phrase became forced.
If DC wants Batman being solo why did they create Tim as a Robin?

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Yeah, Tim was meant to be a more modern Robin, an independent hero instead of just Batman's sidekick. More like Spider-Man than Dick Grayson or Wally West or Roy Harper when they started out. Peter Parker was independent from the start, and that was the idea for Tim when he got his own title. Remember, initially, Azrael was Batman, and Tim was locked out of the Batcave!


But this is the weird part, because if he should be more like Peter,  Tim should debut as a independent hero and work with Batman later. Peter start like Spiderman and after became close of other heroes, not the inverse.
Thinking about a independent character too make more sense now that he was never Robin, because he was not like the others sidekicks, he got a name from a hero he liked, not replace a sidekick uniform.
What should I read for know Tim better? Something short, with a end story, like Robin Son of Batman.

"Remember, initially, Azrael was Batman, and Tim was locked out of the Batcave!" I have zero idea of what is this about 
>-<

----------


## TheCape

> But this is the weird part, because if he should be more like Peter,  Tim should debut as a independent hero and work with Batman later. Peter start like Spiderman and after became close of other heroes, not the inverse.
> Thinking about a independent character too make more sense now that he was never Robin, because he was not like the others sidekicks, he got a name from a hero he liked, not replace a sidekick uniform.
> What should I read for know Tim better? Something short, with a end story, like Robin Son of Batman.
> 
> "Remember, initially, Azrael was Batman, and Tim was locked out of the Batcave!" I have zero idea of what is this about 
> >-<


Variations of that kind of archetype exist. You can read his minis, they made 3 before he got his solo. They were written by Chuck Dixon.

As for the Azrael thing, back in 93 when Knightfall happened and Azrael became Batman he forbid Robin to enter in the batcave and the first arc of his solo is him dealing with that more or less.

----------


## dietrich

> But this is the weird part, because if he should be more like Peter,  Tim should debut as a independent hero and work with Batman later. Peter start like Spiderman and after became close of other heroes, not the inverse.
> Thinking about a independent character too make more sense now that he was never Robin, because he was not like the others sidekicks, he got a name from a hero he liked, not replace a sidekick uniform.
> What should I read for know Tim better? Something short, with a end story, like Robin Son of Batman.
> 
> "Remember, initially, Azrael was Batman, and Tim was locked out of the Batcave!" I have zero idea of what is this about 
> >-<


Tim's story starts in Batman 440 I think [also read new TT #60, #61] then you need the Robin solo's and his mini's

----------


## Konja7

> But this is the weird part, because if he should be more like Peter,  Tim should debut as a independent hero and work with Batman later. Peter start like Spiderman and after became close of other heroes, not the inverse.
> Thinking about a independent character too make more sense now that he was never Robin, because he was not like the others sidekicks, he got a name from a hero he liked, not replace a sidekick uniform.
> What should I read for know Tim better? Something short, with a end story, like Robin Son of Batman.
> 
> "Remember, initially, Azrael was Batman, and Tim was locked out of the Batcave!" I have zero idea of what is this about 
> >-<


DC wants a Robin again (because it is a popular brand), but they also want to have Batman as a "solitary" hero. So, Robin should be more independent to get it. 

In other words, DC want their cake and eat it too


Speaking of independent identity, when Chuck Dixon worked in Robin solo, he was pitching an idea where Tim becomes Blue Beetle (and Stephanie as Batgirl), but DC always opposed.

----------


## Digifiend

That was for the best, long term. Steph eventually became Batgirl anyway, and if Tim had been Blue Beetle we probably wouldn't have Jaime Reyes.

----------


## Morgoth

> DC wants a Robin again (because it is a popular brand), but they also want to have Batman as a "solitary" hero. So, Robin should be more independent to get it.


Well, here's another advantage is that Batman always has several titles, where he can be interpreted in different ways. King doesn't care about all of his relationships except Selina - he wrote Batman mostly with her, while Tynion wrote him with Tim, Stephanie, Kate and the others, because he likes Batfamily. It was the same with Snyder, while he was writing his, Tomasi and Morrison were writing about his relationship with Damian, because he's not interested in father-son relationship (and also wanted to make Duke Robin).
Regarding Tim, editorial just for some reason thinks he can be only Robin, not anyone else. If Damian indeed will get his "graduation" and join Dick and Jason, it will be actually sad, if they won't let Tim to move forward, like them.

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## Rebeca Armus

Tim shouldn't at least be more emotional independent?
He looks pretty needy of love and atention for me (that don't know to much about him), I can't see why DC would want to create a more independent Robin that wants love that his own parents didn't given to him and try to find this in Batman/Bruce whon he admires and replace Robin.
Thinking about this idea of a independent Robin Duke fill more the perfil, (don't like the idea of Duke being Robin for much time, he is more independent).

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## Rebeca Armus

> Well, here's another advantage is that Batman always has several titles, where he can be interpreted in different ways. King doesn't care about all of his relationships except Selina - he wrote Batman mostly with her, while Tynion wrote him with Tim, Stephanie, Kate and the others, because he likes Batfamily. It was the same with Snyder, while he was writing his, Tomasi and Morrison were writing about his relationship with Damian, because he's not interested in father-son relationship (and also wanted to make Duke Robin).
> Regarding Tim, editorial just for some reason thinks he can be only Robin, not anyone else. If Damian indeed will get his "graduation" and join Dick and Jason, it will be actually sad, if they won't let Tim to move forward, like them.


I have a thing about what is going to happen, because Damian is 13 and WB maybe want to keep him, but Jason was assassinated with 13-14, Damian have been already dead and in movie/comics of future Damian is in LoA. Maybe DC wants to make Damian a little like Loki, that is always lost about what path follow, but Loki is much more old than Damian, would be sad if Damian need to deal with all by himself, but , again, Jason was killed with 13-14 and he became a anti-hero being 17(?

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## Jackalope89

> I have a thing about what is going to happen, because Damian is 13 and WB maybe want to keep him, but Jason was assassinated with 13-14, Damian have been already dead and in movie/comics of future Damian is in LoA. Maybe DC wants to make Damian a little like Loki, that is always lost about what path follow, but Loki is much more old than Damian, would be sad if Damian need to deal with all by himself, but , again, Jason was killed with 13-14 and he became a anti-hero being 17(?


Jason was killed at 15.

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## Rebeca Armus

> Jason was killed at 15.


and he came back with 17? or 18?

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## redmax99

> Jason was killed at 15.


actually jason was 13 before all the retcons. back when war games happen they said jason was 18 while tim just had his 16 birthday and fans were confused because they were both 13 at the time of jason death at least they should have been a year apart not 2.

as for every blaming dc for batmn needs a robin line well it was the truth. jim starlin got fired for killing jason,  wb had toys to sell with batman and robin and a new movie coming  out and batman without robin at the time really didn't sell. stop looking at the 90's an 2000's and remember batman wasn't always so popular.

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## Jackalope89

> actually jason was 13 before all the retcons. back when war games happen they said jason was 18 while tim just had his 16 birthday and fans were confused because they were both 13 at the time of jason death at least they should have been a year apart not 2.
> 
> as for every blaming dc for batmn needs a robin line well it was the truth. jim starlin got fired for killing jason,  wb had toys to sell with batman and robin and a new movie coming  out and batman without robin at the time really didn't sell. stop looking at the 90's an 2000's and remember batman wasn't always so popular.

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## Aahz

> 


That:s not form the comics (and imo not really canon), and the height and weight makes no sense.

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## Blue22

> That:s not form the comics (and imo not really canon), and the height and weight makes no sense.


Oh how off could it possibly-YEP! Yeah that's...uh....all kinds of not right lol

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## Jackalope89

> Oh how off could it possibly-YEP! Yeah that's...uh....all kinds of not right lol


Surprisingly hard to find the full death certificate of Jason's from the comics. Only been able to find the top part.

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## Digifiend

> Oh how off could it possibly-YEP! Yeah that's...uh....all kinds of not right lol


Less than seven stone? That'd be severely underweight for a 15 year old, definitely. Height should probably be over five feet too. Those details sound more like... a 10 year old?

What's that from anyway?

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## Aahz

> What's that from anyway?


The Batman Files

Jasons stats on the Death certificate are actually from a who is who entry, but I think when it was written Jason was supposed to be way younger then 15. In other profiles from the time he is taller, and iirc the only comic were he is actually drawn that tiny is his origin.

In DitF he reaches roughly to Bruce shoulder so he would be roughly 5'4''.

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## Rebeca Armus

> Tim's story starts in Batman 440 I think [also read new TT #60, #61] then you need the Robin solo's and his mini's


thanks <3 I will search

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## Rebeca Armus

> The Batman Files
> 
> Jasons stats on the Death certificate are actually from a who is who entry, but I think when it was written Jason was supposed to be way younger then 15. In other profiles from the time he is taller, and iirc the only comic were he is actually drawn that tiny is his origin.
> 
> In DitF he reaches roughly to Bruce shoulder so he would be roughly 5'4''.


So this certificate is with the wrong age or the wrong Jason's size, right?

I would really like the characters, regardless of the artist, to keep the same size difference.

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## Konja7

I wonder if DC has a problem with Damian's age (because they don't want Batman to be too old), why they don't make that Talia and the Assassins League has access to a place where time passes differently and Damian was raised there.

They may say that Damian was raised 10 years in that place, but it only past some months since his conception on earth.


This is literally the kind of explanation they used for Jon's growth. They could use this to explain Damian's age while mantaining Bruce relatively younger.

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## Aahz

> So this certificate is with the wrong age or the wrong Jason's size, right?


Let's say it is at least questionable, there isn't really a an official "right" age and size.

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## Rebeca Armus

> I wonder if DC has a problem with Damian's age (because they don't want Batman to be too old), why they don't make that Talia and the Assassins League has access to a place where time passes differently and Damian was raised there.
> 
> They may say that Damian was raised 10 years in that place, but it only past some months since his conception on earth.
> 
> 
> This is literally the kind of explanation they used for Jon's growth. They could use this to explain Damian's age while mantaining Bruce relatively younger.


But if they use this with Damian, and make he grows up 10 more years, he would be older than Tim and older or same as Jason? For me would broke good part of the dynamic I like :/
Ok, another age question, what is Bruce's probably age now?

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## Rebeca Armus

> Let's say it is at least questionable, there isn't really a an official "right" age and size.


I am ok with don't knowing the size, but can't DC decides Jason's age death? Why?

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## Aahz

> I am ok with don't knowing the size, but can't DC decides Jason's age death? Why?


The thing is that they didn't give an age in the original comics, and if they make up something now it will just be a retcon and not really the "right age".

Appart from that they also keep changing the ages when he became Robin. 

Unless DC really commits to consistent time line the ret conned ages never mean much.

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## Digifiend

> I wonder if DC has a problem with Damian's age (because they don't want Batman to be too old), why they don't make that Talia and the Assassins League has access to a place where time passes differently and Damian was raised there.
> 
> They may say that Damian was raised 10 years in that place, but it only past some months since his conception on earth.
> 
> 
> This is literally the kind of explanation they used for Jon's growth. They could use this to explain Damian's age while mantaining Bruce relatively younger.


That would've been ideal for New 52, where it was impossible for Damian to be 10 years old (since Bruce wouldn't have met Talia until he became Batman, and no superhero had been active more than five years, him included).

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## Konja7

> But if they use this with Damian, and make he grows up 10 more years, he would be older than Tim and older or same as Jason? For me would broke good part of the dynamic I like :/
> Ok, another age question, what is Bruce's probably age now?


I don't mean they use this to make Damian older. I mean, they use this to explain the current Damian's age.

DC has problems with Damian because (currently) he makes Bruce older that they want. Bruce needs to have been Batman more than 13 years to have Damian (since they also should explain Talia and Ra's interest on him).

So, if Damian was raised in a place where the time pass differently, he could be 10 years even if he was only conceived a few months earlier on Earth.


PS: This would be better that fast growth acceleration (that DC has tried to imply sometimes), which is horrible since it implies that Damian should be mentally younger.

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## dietrich

If they had a problem with his age then they wouldn't have aged him up 3 years out of no where.

If they had a problem with Damian's age then his fast aging won't have been retconed

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## dietrich

> I don't mean they use this to make Damian older. I mean, they use this to explain the current Damian's age.
> 
> DC has problems with Damian because (currently) he makes Bruce older that they want. Bruce needs to have been Batman more than 13 years to have Damian (since they also should explain Talia and Ra's interest on him).
> 
> So, if Damian was raised in a place where the time pass differently, he could be 10 years even if he was only conceived a few months earlier on Earth.
> 
> 
> PS: This would be better that fast growth acceleration (that DC has tried to imply sometimes), which is horrible since it implies that Damian should be mentally younger.


Bruce doesn't have to be anything. Damian was genetically engineered in a whale's womb. That is a getout of jail card.

Damian being born in a place where time passes fast is not only stupid but it's been done before. Damian is genetically tinkered with that's always been part of his canon. Is still part of his canon to have him be both genetically tinkered with along with tacking on born in a place where times passes fast is beyond silly.

If WB feels like Damian makes Bruce feel old [something they didn't have a problem with when Bruce had only known Talia 5 yrs] then they should do a Didio and kill him off. That would be better than ruining him by tacking on a stolen backstory.

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## dietrich

> thanks <3 I will search


You are welcome.

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## Morgoth

I never understood why they would not do the simplest and most convenient retcon regarding Damian's age - to make it so that Bruce met Talia before he became Batman, during his travels and training, and to make Talia get pregnant secretly from him during that period. Then everything will fit very conveniently into the timeline.
But in general, this stupid excuse of DiDio "he will be too old!!!" this is one of the dumbest arguments I've ever heard and hope that after his departure, it will follow him. There is nothing wrong with Bruce being around forty or maybe even forty-five.

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## dietrich

> I never understood why they would not do the simplest and most convenient retcon regarding Damian's age - to make it so that Bruce met Talia before he became Batman, during his travels and training, and to make Talia get pregnant secretly from him during that period. Then everything will fit very conveniently into the timeline.
> But in general, this stupid excuse of DiDio "he will be too old!!!" this is one of the dumbest arguments I've ever heard and hope that after his departure, it will follow him. There is nothing wrong with Bruce being around forty or maybe even forty-five.


It still wouldn't fit because Dick Grayson met Bruce when he was 8 and Bruce was already Batman. If Talia was knocked up before Bruce became batman then he and Dick would be age mates.

Damian is fine. All the Robins make Bruce look old that was the reason why Didio wanted to kill Dick.

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## Morgoth

I thought Dick was around twelve-thirteen years, to be honest. 
Damn, I hope they will fix this mess with timeline, as Snyder promised.

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## dietrich

> I thought Dick was around twelve-thirteen years, to be honest. 
> Damn, I hope they will fix this mess with timeline, as Snyder promised.


Honestly the best thing is for DC to forget about fixing the timeline and just concentarte on writing great stories.

DCeased was so well received
3 Joker
Bat/Cat
Are all highly anticipated and they are not in continuity. I'm fine with DC not having such a coherent Continuity and honestly we're at a point where continuity will never be coherent.

Thematically it's important for Dick's age to mirror Bruce's when he lost his folks because that's what prompted Bruce to take him ion. He saw himself in Dick. In Rebirth Batman Dick was shown to be quite young when Bruce took him in.

Honestly I don't know what's going on with DC continuity anymore

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## Konja7

> Honestly the best thing is for DC to forget about fixing the timeline and just concentarte on writing great stories.
> 
> DCeased was so well received
> 3 Joker
> Bat/Cat
> Are all highly anticipated and they are not in continuity. I'm fine with DC not having such a coherent Continuity and honestly we're at a point where continuity will never be coherent.
> 
> Thematically it's important for Dick's age to mirror Bruce's when he lost his folks because that's what prompted Bruce to take him ion. He saw himself in Dick. In Rebirth Batman Dick was shown to be quite young when Bruce took him in.
> 
> Honestly I don't know what's going on with DC continuity anymore


Even if DC ignores continuity, I really doubt DC wants Dick to be 8 years old when he lost his parents and become Robin (in that issue of Batman Rebirth, Dick looks quite young, but not so young). 

Nowadays, DC wouldn't want Dick to be so younger when he was Robin. Also, as I said, DC doesn't want Batman to be too old.

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## Aahz

> Thematically it's important for Dick's age to mirror Bruce's when he lost his folks because that's what prompted Bruce to take him ion. He saw himself in Dick. In Rebirth Batman Dick was shown to be quite young when Bruce took him in.


If that's really necessary it is imo better to have Bruce be 12 when his parents die (like in "Gotham").

Having Dick becoming Robin at age 8 doesn't really fit with any comics that are set at the beginning of his career,  stretches the time line drastically (we would be already in roughly Batman Year 12 by the time Jason becomes Robin) and you cpuld also argue that Jason reminded Bruce of Dick when he took him in.

On the other hand if Bruce was 8 or 12 when his parents died doesn't change much, and as a 12 year old he could actually slowly start to train to become Batman.

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## dietrich

I wonder 40 years from now how they would be trying to make Batman Younger

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## dietrich

So all that teasing and it was just another Injustice> I mean I'm sorta excited because it means we'll see more of Damian and Kara's relationship but I was hoping for something fresh. Maybe a Green Arrow title or a Damian Wayne in - continuity title by Taylor

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## Eckri

> So all that teasing and it was just another Injustice> I mean I'm sorta excited because it means we'll see more of Damian and Kara's relationship


Depends if the comic and game have the same consistency, remember the Injustice 2 prologue which contradicted the comics for Injustice 1.
Like
The prequel Injustice 2 comics had that whole Damian and Kara saving some civilian story, and the time Damian indirectly made Kara cut her hair.
Then the game shows up with little signs of their interactions from the prequel comic.

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## dietrich

> Depends if the comic and game have the same consistency, remember the Injustice 2 prologue which contradicted the comics for Injustice 1.
> Like
> The prequel Injustice 2 comics had that whole Damian and Kara saving some civilian story, and the time Damian indirectly made Kara cut her hair.
> Then the game shows up with little signs of their interactions from the prequel comic.


The comics are very much Taylor's own thing so I don't expect them to sync up.

I'm not even sure we are getting an injustice 3 game  just yet since it hasn't been announced.

I don't mind the game and the comics not syncing up.
It benefits Damian being a baddie in the games. He and Wonder Woman are the infamous Injustice villains. If he were to become good his notoriety/popularity will fall and he might even get replaced which will suck since I main him.

In the comics He's the middle ground between the 2 big ego's of Bruce and Clark [according to Taylor] which sounds very promising since it sounds like Damian is going to continue having a key role going forward.

Since the JSA is getting introduced I wonder what that means for Kara since there's a new Super in town [Power Girl]?

And Damian with another Wayne [Helena]?

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## Morgoth

> I'm not even sure we are getting an injustice 3 game just yet since it hasn't been announced.


It probably will be announced at FanDome.
It will be an adaption of Blackest Night, if rumors are true.

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## dietrich

> It probably will be announced at FanDome.
> It will be an adaption of Blackest Night, if rumors are true.


Blackest Night? Huh? That's bombastic and could be a ton of fun. Batman raises the dead to help him fight Superman or superman raises the dead to help him break out of the Phantom Zone and fight batman.


That would be a great way to get all the heroes who died to return

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## Rebeca Armus

Can't DC make Bruce (maybe and Catwoman) des-age 10 years? So the boys can grow up and Bruce will not be older than 45 for a long  time? For me it's easy than mess with 4 other characters age.
I don't mind a Batman with 55 too, he has this new outfit, right? DC can say "it will make you performer like you are ten years youger, yada yada yada".
So I can see Dick's daughter,  young Helena, Tim became (a name of your preference) with my most liked outfit, Damian older, Jason-Artemis Canon, Damian's new identity

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## Jackalope89

Tim as Red Robin is fine. Making him Duck Boy the Magnificent hasn't done him any favors.

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## dietrich

> Can't DC make Bruce (maybe and Catwoman) des-age 10 years? So the boys can grow up and Bruce will not be older than 45 for a long  time? For me it's easy than mess with 4 other characters age.
> I don't mind a Batman with 55 too, he has this new outfit, right? DC can say "it will make you performer like you are ten years youger, yada yada yada".
> So I can see Dick's daughter,  young Helena, Tim became (a name of your preference) with my most liked outfit, Damian older, Jason-Artemis Canon, Damian's new identity


No DC can't do that.

Batman is the 3rd biggest comic property in the world only recently pushed into 3rd place by the MCU.

Batman is the reason why DC comics is still in publication.
You are asking WB to mess with one of the biggest intellectual Properties in the world for what is essentially scrubs [compared to batman].

DC will never mess with Batman just so lesser properties make sense. That's not how business works.
You don't mess around with your cash cow for the some obsolete milkers

DC doesn't want Batman to be past late 30's.

The reaction fans had to that time line that had Real age character indicates that most don't want to see these characters grow up.

Dick's daughter? Please no. Fans are divided on his true love. We don't need a daughter who adds no much but pisses off half the Nightwing Fan base.

Comics aren't like manga sadly

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## dietrich

> Tim as Red Robin is fine. Making him Duck Boy the Magnificent hasn't done him any favors.


Not only was Red Robin Fine but he had success with it. I don't think the higher ups are invested in Tim. He has fans behind the scene but I don't think the decision makers have eyes on him.

Why else would such a stupid name ever be allowed? Unless they already decided to let him share Robin so were doing it as a gag as some have been speculating on line

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## Rebeca Armus

> Tim as Red Robin is fine. Making him Duck Boy the Magnificent hasn't done him any favors.


Duck Boy XD
But if the story continue for, like, 8 more years, Tim will be a 25 years Robin, they can write a great motive for this, but I don't know.

Don't need to be Drake, he can be another cool bird, or animal, or have a Detective name, it would focus in Tim best quality. He don't need to choose between Robin, Red Robin and Drake. Even insects like a moth can be cool. DC would make Tim's say "I finally get my identity as a hero, I didn't know very well who I was before, but even this mistakes, everytime my codename don't work, is part of who I became and yada yada yada.
He is smart, leal, not so strong. "Hummingbird" is a cool name in english? Or a "swallow"? Robin is not the most cool bird of the bird's world anyway.
You guys 've convinced me that Drake is a stupid name, but I will miss the brown yellow outfit...

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## Rebeca Armus

OMG!!! He can be a "Great Kiskadee" perfect, nice brown yellow bird. If He got this name instead of Drake before would be easier for like this new identity.

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## Rebeca Armus

The bird ALREADY has a eyes mask!

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## Jackalope89

May want to fix that. cbr has had some real strange censorship things on posting images.

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## Rebeca Armus

> May want to fix that. cbr has had some real strange censorship things on posting images.


Always I try to post image from my celphone this doesn't work, but so I reposted from my PC.
But should I delete this because is not a comic related image?

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## TheCape

> Always I try to post image from my celphone this doesn't work, but so I reposted from my PC.
> But should I delete this because is not a comic related image?


Nah you can post images that aren't comic book related as long as is conected to what you are talking about....i think.

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## Rebeca Armus

> Nah you can post images that aren't comic book related as long as is conected to what you are talking about....i think.


okok thanks ^^

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## Rebeca Armus

> Not only was Red Robin Fine but he had success with it. I don't think the higher ups are invested in Tim. He has fans behind the scene but I don't think the decision makers have eyes on him.
> 
> Why else would such a stupid name ever be allowed? Unless they already decided to let him share Robin so were doing it as a gag as some have been speculating on line


I think maybe who decided/ approved this name have a dumb humor sense like me (=___=)/ but other person really should 've stopped this.

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## Konja7

> No DC can't do that.
> 
> Batman is the 3rd biggest comic property in the world only recently pushed into 3rd place by the MCU.
> 
> Batman is the reason why DC comics is still in publication.
> You are asking WB to mess with one of the biggest intellectual Properties in the world for what is essentially scrubs [compared to batman].
> 
> DC will never mess with Batman just so lesser properties make sense. That's not how business works.
> You don't mess around with your cash cow for the some obsolete milkers
> ...


This is true. DC won't mess with Batman popularity. 

Big fans of Batman don't want him to be too old either. It is usually fans of other Bat family member who want this, because they want their own favorite characters are allowed to grow a bit more. 





> Comics aren't like manga sadly


To be clear, characters growing isn't common in manga either

There are many manga where the characters remain at the same age all its run. And even stories where the characters grow up, they will hardly be over 30 (if they are over 20).

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## Rebeca Armus

> No DC can't do that.
> 
> Batman is the 3rd biggest comic property in the world only recently pushed into 3rd place by the MCU.
> 
> Batman is the reason why DC comics is still in publication.
> You are asking WB to mess with one of the biggest intellectual Properties in the world for what is essentially scrubs [compared to batman].
> 
> DC will never mess with Batman just so lesser properties make sense. That's not how business works.
> You don't mess around with your cash cow for the some obsolete milkers
> ...


less than 30's is so exagered :/ Ok, he can not became 55, but 30's is too young :/

In my opinion Batman will fall sometime, because the younger genation will like more the younger heroes. Star wars move foward, the past language make no sense, I think Bruce is not a hero for younger generation like he was to the old one.

Marvel had overcome DC for some reason. I don't think keep a same idea forever is the best way for earn money. I was so full of listen people saying "Deadpool will never be made because people are not used with a anti-hero in movie theater", "Black Panter will not make sucess because never was a black protagonist hero", "spiderman in Spider Verse will not win the Oscar because the academy will never give a Oscar for a movie about comics", "Joker can't be a good movie because is a Batman Movie without Batman", "Teen Titans Go is not good and will be cancelled soon", "BTS will never win the  BillBoard because they are Korean", "Parasite will never win the Oscar because thi is not a ocidental movie".
 The best DC animation avaliation in IMDB is Under the Red Hood, changes happens.

Damian, Helena and Kori are like Batman Beyond: next generation, can't not be so popular as Batman, but sell animation, comics, merchandising.

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## Konja7

> less than 30's is so exagered :/ Ok, he can not became 55, but 30's is too young :/
> 
> In my opinion Batman will fall sometime, because the younger genation will like more the younger heroes. Star wars move foward, the past language make no sense, I think Bruce is not a hero for younger generation like he was to the old one.
> 
> Marvel had overcome DC for some reason. I don't think keep a same idea forever is the best way for earn money. I was so full of listen people saying "Deadpool will never be made because people are not used with a anti-hero in movie theater", "Black Panter will not make sucess because never was a black protagonist hero", "spiderman in Spider Verse will not win the Oscar because the academy will never give a Oscar for a movie about comics", "Joker can't be a good movie because is a Batman Movie without Batman", "Teen Titans Go is not good and will be cancelled soon", "BTS will never win the  BillBoard because they are Korean", "Parasite will never win the Oscar because thi is not a ocidental movie".
>  The best DC animation avaliation in IMDB is Under the Red Hood, changes happens.
> 
> Damian, Helena and Kori are like Batman Beyond: next generation, can't not be so popular as Batman, but sell animation, comics, merchandising.


The younger generation could like new heroes (in fact, that happened with New Teen Titans for a while). 

However, Batfamily members (including young Batfamily members) are too connected to Batman. If Batman falls he will probably drag each member of the Batfamily with him.

Batman is likely one of my less favorite members in the Batfamily, but I won't deny he supports the popularity of the members in the group.


PS: That a younger generation likes younger heroes is another reason why DC doesn't want Batman to be too old.

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## Rebeca Armus

> The younger generation could like new heroes (in fact, that happened with New Teen Titans for a while). 
> 
> However, Batfamily members (including young Batfamily members) are too connected to Batman. If Batman falls he will probably drag each member of the Batfamily with him.
> 
> Batman is likely one of my less favorite members in the Batfamily, but I won't deny he supports the popularity of the members in the group.
> 
> 
> PS: That a younger generation likes younger heroes is another reason why DC doesn't want Batman to be too old.


I expressed my self not very well.
This "fall" is not a "total fall"... hummm.
Batman can always keep going, and be the principal DC's focus, but he can't stagnate other characters if we want to read (want = pay for).
Like, Batman sell more than Batgirl,  but there is enough people wanting read Batgirl's focused stories for DC produce her comics. Instead of thinking "we don't need to do Batgirl's comic because it will never sell more than Batman" they got this is what many people wanted. So now many peoples buy batgirl AND Batman. We can buy DCeased (with the new trio) and Batman with the old one, I can read/ watch a storie when Bruce is 55 and there is older Damian and the kids I want and read/watch the 30's Bruce.

This is good for moments we need a break too, I like the normal story way, but was so good read Lil' Gotham, "#Bruce wayne is a good father" isn't a popular fanfics tag for nothing.

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## Dazai_Osamu

Dick's age when he met Bruce has changed several times: he has been 8, 10, 12 and 15 years old.

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## Digifiend

> Duck Boy XD
> But if the story continue for, like, 8 more years, Tim will be a 25 years Robin, they can write a great motive for this, but I don't know.
> 
> Don't need to be Drake, he can be another cool bird, or animal, or have a Detective name, it would focus in Tim best quality. He don't need to choose between Robin, Red Robin and Drake. Even insects like a moth can be cool. DC would make Tim's say "I finally get my identity as a hero, I didn't know very well who I was before, but even this mistakes, everytime my codename don't work, is part of who I became and yada yada yada.
> He is smart, leal, not so strong. "Hummingbird" is a cool name in english? Or a "swallow"? Robin is not the most cool bird of the bird's world anyway.
> You guys 've convinced me that Drake is a stupid name, but I will miss the brown yellow outfit...


Swallow was the name of Tim's Amalgam with Jubilee.

Hummingbird is already the name of a Marvel teen hero. Scarlet Spider's sidekick, and a New Warrior. Her most recent appearance was in Champions #6 last year.

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## Rebeca Armus

> Swallow was the name of Tim's Amalgam with Jubilee.
> 
> Hummingbird is already the name of a Marvel teen hero. Scarlet Spider's sidekick, and a New Warrior. Her most recent appearance was in Champions #6 last year.


Damn it D-:< !!!

----------


## Yennefer

Hello...
Could someone write down in which titles Damian Wayne is now in??
I know for sure TT and BB....
Thank you... Hope you are all safe❤️❤️

----------


## sifighter

> Hello...
> Could someone write down in which titles Damian Wayne is now in??
> I know for sure TT and BB....
> Thank you... Hope you are all safe❤️❤️


Upcoming Detective Comics
DCeased: Dead Planet
Dceased: Hope at worlds end

----------


## king81992

> I never understood why they would not do the simplest and most convenient retcon regarding Damian's age - to make it so that Bruce met Talia before he became Batman, during his travels and training, and to make Talia get pregnant secretly from him during that period. Then everything will fit very conveniently into the timeline.
> But in general, this stupid excuse of DiDio "he will be too old!!!" this is one of the dumbest arguments I've ever heard and hope that after his departure, it will follow him. There is nothing wrong with Bruce being around forty or maybe even forty-five.


Current Batman not being 40-50 is a mistake with all the proteges he has. It makes him look like an irresponsible mentor(which he has been for a long time, even without the age issue).

----------


## sifighter

Heck wouldn’t an easy thing to do be that when he died in Snyder’s endgame his reborn body was younger then when he died? I mean they did something similar in Dark Knight III Master Race, so I’m sure an age reduction wouldn’t be too upsetting.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Heck wouldn’t an easy thing to do be that when he died in Snyder’s endgame his reborn body was younger then when he died? I mean they did something similar in Dark Knight III Master Race, so I’m sure an age reduction wouldn’t be too upsetting.


I prefer this too. My 3 options are:
1 - Make Bruce getting normaly older for other caracters getting older, the is Batman Beyond but without Bat Boys
2 - Make Bruce des-age with magic/cience and he will keep before 40's for much more time while Damian and other Batboys can get 10-15 years older.
3 - The paralelal publication when everybody can get older as I said before.

*Jason is immortal now? I think I read this in like "10 things you don't know about Red Hood" but haven't see this in a real comic page.

----------


## adrikito

Seriously?

https://insidepulse.com/2020/08/03/d...ions-spoilers/

Is not enough with say me that Damian leaves the Robin role? Again with the Robin tim thing? You were not happy with Drake Bendis?

----------


## Dazai_Osamu

Bendis is happy with teen Jon Kent and Drake, and he must be the only one, he even wrote the drake was 'the most dangerous bird' from Earth-3 plus the brown costume is horrible.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Seriously?
> 
> https://insidepulse.com/2020/08/03/d...ions-spoilers/
> 
> Is not enough with say me that Damian leaves the Robin role? Again with the Robin tim thing? You were not happy with Drake Bendis?


Tim stays losing  16 forever stuck

----------


## Morgoth

> Seriously?
> 
> https://insidepulse.com/2020/08/03/d...ions-spoilers/
> 
> Is not enough with say me that Damian leaves the Robin role? Again with the Robin tim thing? You were not happy with Drake Bendis?


Tynion is a huge Tim's fan, I guess it's his call.
But then again, this can all be temporary. Snyder also wanted another Robin, and we all know, what happened.

----------


## Katana500

Damian has some nice moments in the newest Dceased issue! I'm looking forward to seeing more of him in the series.

----------


## sifighter

Oh yeah there’s definitely a moment that I’m very interested in seeing how people react to. One that I myself certainly didn’t expect and thought Taylor was just joking about.

----------


## sifighter

edit: double post, sorry

----------


## Katana500

> Oh yeah there’s definitely a moment that I’m very interested in seeing how people react to. One that I myself certainly didn’t expect and thought Taylor was just joking about.


I really liked it! I'm interested to see how that dynamic develops in the next few issues.  I think some people may oppose it automatically but I'm more than willing to give it a shot! 

What are your thoughts on the pairing?

----------


## sifighter

> I really liked it! I'm interested to see how that dynamic develops in the next few issues.  I think some people may oppose it automatically but I'm more than willing to give it a shot! 
> 
> What are your thoughts on the pairing?


*spoilers:*
 Honestly my first thought was how much older then him is she? But in all seriousness I’m much more a Cassie and Superboy(Conner) shipper since Young Justice and Teen Titans but I can accept it as this is an alternate universe.  I do kind of want to see how this all began, and maybe we will see more of that in Hope at worlds end. 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Morgoth

I guess, every writer, except Tomasi and Gleason, will keep ignoring Maya existence)

----------


## sifighter

> I guess, every writer, except Tomasi and Gleason, will keep ignoring Maya existence)


I mean this time it’s an alternate universe where the world succumbed to an undead outbreak, we don’t even know if Maya is alive in the DCeased universe.

----------


## Katana500

> *spoilers:*
>  Honestly my first thought was how much older then him is she? But in all seriousness I’m much more a Cassie and Superboy(Conner) shipper since Young Justice and Teen Titans but I can accept it as this is an alternate universe.  I do kind of want to see how this all began, and maybe we will see more of that in Hope at worlds end. 
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
 She doesn't look much older than Jon and Damian in Hope at World's end. So i would guess maybe 2 years older?
I actually kinda think it could be an interesting pairing. Hopefully neither of them die  
*end of spoilers*




> I mean this time it’s an alternate universe where the world succumbed to an undead outbreak, we don’t even know if Maya is alive in the DCeased universe.


Most likely looked at a screen and got infected when the outbreak first started. Doubt Maya was completely off the grid so it would make sense.

----------


## Eckri

*spoilers:*
 
Cassie and Damian.
This must a homage to Diana and Bruce in Justice League cartoon, or maybe the joke continues that Damian just likes blondes. 
Though the reunion between Damian and Jason was heartwarming, hope that Stephanie survives and reunites with Cass.

*end of spoilers*

----------


## dietrich

> Bendis is happy with teen Jon Kent and Drake, and he must be the only one, he even wrote the drake was 'the most dangerous bird' from Earth-3 plus the brown costume is horrible.


Honestly I don't think even bendis can rationally defend His choice of name for Tim. Aside from it being his real name. The fact that he took the name from an alternate version of himself who tim fought because their ideologies clashed is beyond rationale

----------


## dietrich

Dceased killed it as usual. How is it that a doomed alternate earth is the only place we currently get positive batfam?

----------


## Katana500

> Dceased killed it as usual. How is it that a doomed alternate earth is the only place we currently get positive batfam?


It is such a good series! I always look forward to the wee moments in every issue between the chaos.

*spoilers:*
 The Damian and Jason/Cass moment was sweet. Nice seeing them reunite. I very much hope none of them die but I think the Batfamily will suffer atleast one casualty. I think Red Hood might be the most likely victim!

What were your thoughts on Damian and Cassie Dietrich?
*end of spoilers*

----------


## dietrich

> It is such a good series! I always look forward to the wee moments in every issue between the chaos.
> 
> *spoilers:*
>  The Damian and Jason/Cass moment was sweet. Nice seeing them reunite. I very much hope none of them die but I think the Batfamily will suffer atleast one casualty. I think Red Hood might be the most likely victim!
> 
> What were your thoughts on Damian and Cassie Dietrich?
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
 A few pages back I did worry that Taylor seemed to be hinting at it or rather fans were pestering him for that pairing on twitter.

I liked what he did with Damian and Kara in Injustice but as a fan of Cassie and Conner I'm not sure how I feel just yet.

Damian isn't a ladies man type of character to me but Injustice and the DCAMU managed to do him flirting/dating in a way that didn't suck. Raven and Kara are not characters I would ever put with Damian.

I guess it depends on how Taylor handles it. I've really enjoyed how he brings out Damian's vulnerabilities   [like Damian being reluctant to put on the Batsuit] so if he carries on like that I could see Cassie having tender feelings for Damian as opposed to wanting to smack him upside the head

I want to see more. If it's just there for fanservice then I'm not on board. I need more convincing

I really hope we don't lose any of the bats but I think you might be right and one of them will bite the dust.

My money is on Cass only because in Taylor's only other series with the Bat Family Damian, Babs and Jason are the ones who make it 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Konja7

> *spoilers:*
>  A few pages back I did worry that Taylor seemed to be hinting at it or rather fans were pestering him for that pairing on twitter.
> 
> I liked what he did with Damian and Kara in Injustice but as a fan of Cassie and Conner I'm not sure how I feel just yet.
> 
> Damian isn't a ladies man type of character to me but Injustice and the DCAMU managed to do him flirting/dating in a way that didn't suck. Raven and Kara are not characters I would ever put with Damian.
> 
> I guess it depends on how Taylor handles it. I've really enjoyed how he brings out Damian's vulnerabilities   [like Damian being reluctant to put on the Batsuit] so if he carries on like that I could see Cassie having tender feelings for Damian as opposed to wanting to smack him upside the head
> 
> ...


However, Babs doesn't make it in DCeased. So, I think this is unkown territory.

----------


## Katana500

Commissioner Gordon should still be around. Doubt he will appear but if he does I have a feeling he would die.

----------


## Fergus

DCeased was surprising.
The Bat reunion was nice and positive if heavily biased in service to Damian as come to think of it was the Damian/Jason characterisations in Injustice 2. 
Jason validating Bruce's choice of successor and all.

The spoiler romance reveal was unexpected and has my interest. I'm curious to see it explored. This is the fun of elseworlds and writers taking us out of our comfort zone. Those who say they can't imagine seeing Damian in relationship well there's a layer of the character being explored.

Recent plot directions with Damian and romance have been interesting to say the least. It's new territory explored from different angles

TT- he's confused and in a pretty toxic and abusive love triangle with Damian being the one taking a lot of the punches
Injustice - he is unaware of Kara's obvious crush and unintentionally flirts with her
Movies - he falls
DCeased - in a relationship???

I'm not a shipper but it's something new that's been done and so far it's interesting

----------


## Wingin' It

> DCeased was surprising.
> The Bat reunion was nice and positive if heavily biased in service to Damian as come to think of it was the Damian/Jason characterisations in Injustice 2. 
> Jason validating Bruce's choice of successor and all.
> 
> The spoiler romance reveal was unexpected and has my interest. I'm curious to see it explored. This is the fun of elseworlds and writers taking us out of our comfort zone. Those who say they can't imagine seeing Damian in relationship well there's a layer of the character being explored.
> 
> Recent plot directions with Damian and romance have been interesting to say the least. It's new territory explored from different angles
> 
> TT- he's confused and in a pretty toxic and abusive love triangle with Damian being the one taking a lot of the punches
> ...


Jason being that affirming of Damian seems a little weird, but then again Tom Taylor is known (and loved) for his "sappier" character interactions. 

Man, more evidence to the pile that Damian prefers blondes  :Wink:  I always saw him as being someone who has to ease into a relationship with anyone, with love being kind of hard-won from his end, so this seemed a bit sudden. But I guess if it's the apocalypse, you grab what you have and run with it.

----------


## Jackalope89

DCeased was 2 steps forward, 2 steps back. 2 steps forward with Jason and Cass reuniting with Damian. 2 steps back with what happened with Shadow Pact.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Jason being that affirming of Damian seems a little weird, but then again Tom Taylor is known (and loved) for his "sappier" character interactions. 
> 
> Man, more evidence to the pile that Damian prefers blondes  I always saw him as being someone who has to ease into a relationship with anyone, with love being kind of hard-won from his end, so this seemed a bit sudden. But I guess if it's the apocalypse, you grab what you have and run with it.


Actually I also thought that Damian is the type that difficult to build romantic relationship, at least without being extremely wary and insensitive at first. But I also thought the same thing with Bruce, and look how many lovers he has. That's why I'm cool with Damian and Raven, even though in comic world their age gap makes it creepy, the building is nice. Damian didn't trust Raven, want to know her more so he can trust her as his teammate, Raven opened up with him, him opened up with her, they empathized each other's darkness, for me it's pretty nice foundation of relationship. But on DCeased...... Well, at this point we know that random pairing for Damian is inevitable just like his father, with his status as son of Batman and new Batman. Besides, they have 5 year time skip, and on 5 year many things can happen. Probably Taylor will tell us about their relationship on flashback story. Even though I will not be happy on that. I always don't care about romantic aspect on every action media, and so I will be not fond if some panels get roped to contain their love story which probably will get more backlash than DamianxRaven.  

*spoilers:*
About Death Metal : Legend of The Dark Knight is.........edgy. Except the last story. I often brushed the complains about Batman overexposure as some fans jealousy but this case is quite funny actually. So Batman Who Laugh is jokerized Bruce Wayne, Robin King is little psychopath Bruce Wayne, B.Rex is mutant Bruce Wayne? And I can't believe that they made Bruce Wayne WHO KILLS HIS PARENTS WITH GUNS to create Robin King. Wow, that's disregarding his defining aspect entirely. It's like, they create as crazy character as possible and stick Bruce's name on it. Man, now I kinda feel sorry for Bruce as character. 
Good news is, Robin King is not Damian! Hooray! I'm just happy that Damian didn't get roped into this Metal insanity. Bless Scott Synder and his distaste to use Damian. 
Tieri story is kinda nice twist of Batman666 plotline. His collar is not as high as original style, and Damian isn't bald. I don't know I feel happy or disappointed (I kinda love his high collar and baldness). Seriously, how come zombie apocalypse universe and edgy demonized universe are better to potray Damian's devotion and loyalty to Bruce than canon?
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Light of Justice

> DCeased was surprising.
> The Bat reunion was nice and positive if heavily biased in service to Damian as come to think of it was the Damian/Jason characterisations in Injustice 2. 
> Jason validating Bruce's choice of successor and all.
> 
> The spoiler romance reveal was unexpected and has my interest. I'm curious to see it explored. This is the fun of elseworlds and writers taking us out of our comfort zone. Those who say they can't imagine seeing Damian in relationship well there's a layer of the character being explored.
> 
> Recent plot directions with Damian and romance have been interesting to say the least. It's new territory explored from different angles
> 
> TT- he's confused and in a pretty toxic and abusive love triangle with Damian being the one taking a lot of the punches
> ...


In my honest opinion, I can see Damian having romantic interest but I can't see him on relationship, at least without 10 or more chapters of relationship building. I always think that it will be extremely difficult for Damian to open his heart and vulnerable for romantic commitment. The closest we have Damian opened his vulnerable side to a girl is on Maya, and they settled as brother-and-sister which actually I'd prefer it that way. The others...

Steph : don't know where this pairing and this 'Damian has a crush on Steph' came from. I only remember that Damian often called Steph fat, trampoline, and they have interesting partnership moment, which resembling siblings relationship for me. Perhaps someone can tell me about that?
Katana : Only one comment of Damian questioning Katana's status, and quickly forgotten. Lil Gotham kinda brought that back, though.
Kara : I think Dick only teased him. And seriously, Damian only complimented her, is it Wayne hereditary that every time they compliment a woman everyone immediately thought that they had feeling on the said woman? 
Kara Injustice : Don't think that Damian had feeling to Kara. Just like you said, he unintentionally flirted with her.
Emiko : Not really bad, but I don't like how Percy said that Emiko is more heroic than Damian so that's why Damian is drawn to her, so I don't like this pairing.
Djinn: ABSOLUTE WORST. HATE IT SO MUCH. And it makes me pissed off when fans treated Damian as the one who persistently chased Djinn around when she was happy with Crush, even though Djinn IS THE ONE who chased Damian around on earlier issues. She desperately want Damian to be open with her and when Damian did it, she's like "ooh you're too evil for me, ew. So I will not talk to you on our brainwashing project. And yeah, about brainwashing, it's totally your fault and you manipulated me to use my power even though we are not on speaking term. Bye."
Maps : I don't think she can handle Damian's antic and darkness. Gotham Academy Damian is even more watered down than Supersons Damian.
Raven : Kinda cool, I guess.
*spoilers:*
Cassie
*end of spoilers* DCeased: temporary indifferent and have no opinion on it. Besides, we only got one panel about that. If there's no progress on later issue I will easily forget it.

----------


## Fergus

> Jason being that affirming of Damian seems a little weird, but then again Tom Taylor is known (and loved) for his "sappier" character interactions. 
> 
> Man, more evidence to the pile that Damian prefers blondes  I always saw him as being someone who has to ease into a relationship with anyone, with love being kind of hard-won from his end, so this seemed a bit sudden. *But I guess if it's the apocalypse, you grab what you have and run with it.*


I guess that explains *spoilers:*
Cassie's 
*end of spoilers* motivation :Stick Out Tongue: 

Lol. Of course I kid.

It is blondes 2 to the one Brunette.

He also seems to have a preference for love interests who eclipse him on the power scaling or in the case of Alex Luthor out smart him.

Further supported that the version that ends up alone with only his cat is the immortal 666Damian

Kara, Raven, Djinn, *spoilers:*
Cassie 
*end of spoilers*, Mari

----------


## Fergus

> Actually I also thought that Damian is the type that difficult to build romantic relationship, at least without being extremely wary and insensitive at first. But I also thought the same thing with Bruce, and look how many lovers he has. That's why I'm cool with Damian and Raven, even though in comic world their age gap makes it creepy, the building is nice. Damian didn't trust Raven, want to know her more so he can trust her as his teammate, Raven opened up with him, him opened up with her, they empathized each other's darkness, for me it's pretty nice foundation of relationship. But on DCeased...... Well, at this point we know that random pairing for Damian is inevitable just like his father, with his status as son of Batman and new Batman. Besides, they have 5 year time skip, and on 5 year many things can happen. Probably Taylor will tell us about their relationship on flashback story. Even though I will not be happy on that. I always don't care about romantic aspect on every action media, and so I will be not fond if some panels get roped to contain their love story which probably will get more backlash than DamianxRaven.  
> 
> *spoilers:*
> About Death Metal : Legend of The Dark Knight is.........edgy. Except the last story. I often brushed the complains about Batman overexposure as some fans jealousy but this case is quite funny actually. So Batman Who Laugh is jokerized Bruce Wayne, Robin King is little psychopath Bruce Wayne, B.Rex is mutant Bruce Wayne? And I can't believe that they made Bruce Wayne WHO KILLS HIS PARENTS WITH GUNS to create Robin King. Wow, that's disregarding his defining aspect entirely. It's like, they create as crazy character as possible and stick Bruce's name on it. Man, now I kinda feel sorry for Bruce as character. 
> Good news is, Robin King is not Damian! Hooray! I'm just happy that Damian didn't get roped into this Metal insanity. Bless Scott Synder and his distaste to use Damian. 
> Tieri story is kinda nice twist of Batman666 plotline. His collar is not as high as original style, and Damian isn't bald. I don't know I feel happy or disappointed (I kinda love his high collar and baldness). Seriously, how come zombie apocalypse universe and edgy demonized universe are better to potray Damian's devotion and loyalty to Bruce than canon?
> *end of spoilers*


Same.
I'm a fan of the high collar and the bald head
Also liked Tieri's DM Damian story

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Which is this one painel you guys are talking about?

----------


## Blue22

DCeased, and Taylor's work in general, continue to be the only consistently good things coming out of DC in recent years. So the fact that the first thing I see after the issue ends is an advert for all of Bendis' Superfamily plans just felt like I was paying for a five star meal by being kicked in the teeth.

As for....
*spoilers:*
Damian and Cassie. I may be a VERY avid Conner/Cassie shipper but I'm actually way more okay with this than I was with seeing Damian in a relationship with Raven or Kara. Though the latter might just be because I *really* don't like the Injustice Damian lol

I'm really glad Damian got to see Jason and Cass before anything bad were to happen to any of them. And that moment between Jason and Damian was really sweet. All we needed was Steph there (please still be alive!) and it would have been the perfect reunion. 

*end of spoilers*

----------


## Jackalope89

Yeah, I gotta check out on DCeased. With what happened to the Shadow Pact members and what not, yeah. Hit my breaking point on the series. Call me in when someone like Lobo goes ham on the things though.

----------


## Blue22

Yeeeeeah, not gonna lie. That did really...hurt. Not enough to make me quit reading since I'm kinda used to bad things happening to characters I love at this point. But still...yikes.

----------


## Yennefer

*spoilers:*
 I bet that kiss will be referred as a mistake by Cassie's part.... So no relationship, just teasing the fans. 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## sifighter

> *spoilers:*
>  I bet that kiss will be referred as a mistake by Cassie's part.... So no relationship, just teasing the fans. 
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
 I’m not looking to get into a shipping argument but that kind of felt like there was already an established relationship. Not someone made a mistake by going for the kiss in a bad situation but more comforting your significant other when they are having a bad day....of course I could be reading to much into this.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Katana500

> *spoilers:*
>  I’m not looking to get into a shipping argument but that kind of felt like there was already an established relationship. Not someone made a mistake by going for the kiss in a bad situation but more comforting your significant other when they are having a bad day....of course I could be reading to much into this.
> *end of spoilers*


I could see the relationships foundations being laid in Hope at worlds end or maybe in another Dceased spin off if there is one in the 5 year gap.

Since Dceased is popular I could see us getting more for awhile.

----------


## sifighter

> I could see the relationships foundations being laid in Hope at worlds end or maybe in another Dceased spin off if there is one in the 5 year gap.
> 
> Since Dceased is popular I could see us getting more for awhile.


Honestly I could see Hope at worlds end going the injustice route where each different chapter can focus on different stories and aspects of the universe leading up to dead planet, and I dont just mean how Cassie and Damian got together.

I could see the initial inhabitation of earth 2, Kryptos years alone on earth, Jon earning his Superman suit, Cassie becoming Wonder Woman, the Shadowpact years, Green Canary(Dinah)s training/induction into the green lantern corps, and etc. Much like Injustice I think if Taylor or even just DC as a whole sees that it sells then this will keep going.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> In my honest opinion, I can see Damian having romantic interest but I can't see him on relationship, at least without 10 or more chapters of relationship building. I always think that it will be extremely difficult for Damian to open his heart and vulnerable for romantic commitment. The closest we have Damian opened his vulnerable side to a girl is on Maya, and they settled as brother-and-sister which actually I'd prefer it that way. The others...
> 
> Steph : don't know where this pairing and this 'Damian has a crush on Steph' came from. I only remember that Damian often called Steph fat, trampoline, and they have interesting partnership moment, which resembling siblings relationship for me. Perhaps someone can tell me about that?
> Katana : Only one comment of Damian questioning Katana's status, and quickly forgotten. Lil Gotham kinda brought that back, though.
> Kara : I think Dick only teased him. And seriously, Damian only complimented her, is it Wayne hereditary that every time they compliment a woman everyone immediately thought that they had feeling on the said woman? 
> Kara Injustice : Don't think that Damian had feeling to Kara. Just like you said, he unintentionally flirted with her.
> Emiko : Not really bad, but I don't like how Percy said that Emiko is more heroic than Damian so that's why Damian is drawn to her, so I don't like this pairing.
> Djinn: ABSOLUTE WORST. HATE IT SO MUCH. And it makes me pissed off when fans treated Damian as the one who persistently chased Djinn around when she was happy with Crush, even though Djinn IS THE ONE who chased Damian around on earlier issues. She desperately want Damian to be open with her and when Damian did it, she's like "ooh you're too evil for me, ew. So I will not talk to you on our brainwashing project. And yeah, about brainwashing, it's totally your fault and you manipulated me to use my power even though we are not on speaking term. Bye."
> Maps : I don't think she can handle Damian's antic and darkness. Gotham Academy Damian is even more watered down than Supersons Damian.
> ...


Shippers gonna shippe XD

Almost all this couples makes no sense to me too.
*Katana in special was a illusion for me, this 10 years old Don Juan coward and jerk Damian wrote before Batman & Robin is not very Damian for me.

About Djinn, I belive Damian and Djinn did like each other, and Damian's dark wasn't why Djinn stop liking him and this happened because he lied. Djinn wasn't a character that become angry or upset easily,  but when she discovered about the prison she's reaction was strong, Damian was assassin, but he said for everybody who trust him one thing and was doing another. And the idea of "prison" is more traumatic for Djinn too, I think, she didn't talk about this, is a thought.
Not saying I think he was wrong in his metods, but if he made a reunion for discusses this, Djinn would be against and keep by him side trying to help in another way. She is 8000 years old too? I don't think she can fall so in love like a teenager. She is a "let it go" person...?

----------


## Rebeca Armus

* I was trying to post the page when Djinn and Damian almost kiss (the no controleted time)

A soft, but real, love to me.
I agree Damian didn't chased Djinn and even knew someone really thinks this, Whaaaat? Djinn tried approximate and accepted him by what he was and is, I really belive this, but not accepted what he hided.
In the end Damian was the one with broken heart too, it was so sad to me...

*I HATE the art proportion in this last page!

----------


## Fergus

> Shippers gonna shippe XD
> 
> Almost all this couples makes no sense to me too.
> *Katana in special was a illusion for me, this 10 years old Don Juan coward and jerk Damian wrote before Batman & Robin is not very Damian for me.
> 
> About Djinn, I belive Damian and Djinn did like each other, and Damian's dark wasn't why Djinn stop liking him and this happened because he lied. Djinn wasn't a character that become angry or upset easily,  but when she discovered about the prison she's reaction was strong, Damian was assassin, but he said for everybody who trust him one thing and was doing another. And the idea of "prison" is more traumatic for Djinn too, I think, she didn't talk about this, is a thought.
> Not saying I think he was wrong in his metods, but if he made a reunion for discusses this, Djinn would be against and keep by him side trying to help in another way. She is 8000 years old too? I don't think she can fall so in love like a teenager. She is a "let it go" person...?


have you read lil Gotham?
Jerk, coward, Don Juan?

This guy?



This Damian?

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Last thing to say about Damian romantic life.

I think Damian would became in love by almost anyone that fall in love by him.

The problem is more that all girls near to him now are like 4 years older and in a 13-17 years peoples this normally doesn't happens.

For me if others females characters worry like Djinn did "you can talk with me about anything you want", "please, let me help you" " I am here" "this is my past, I never told this for anyone, but now I am doing for you" "I like you". I can't see Damian don't falling in love  (with some exceptions).

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> have you read lil Gotham?
> Jerk, coward, Don Juan?
> 
> This guy?
> 
> 
> 
> This Damian?


Ohhh nooo this is a adorable Damian.
It's about one scene when he is with Dick... I even think it was before the batlle for the cowl, Damian was dressing the outfit between the first black and white one and his first Robin one. It is literally one panel.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Now I need to remember which comic it was =__=/ I will found it and post tomorrow.

I love Jerry the Turkey TuT #jerrytheturkeyshouldbecanon

----------


## Rebeca Armus

"Katana : Only one comment of Damian questioning Katana's status, and quickly forgotten. Lil Gotham kinda brought that back, though."
"Lil Gotham kinda brought that back, though." So I am talking about a canon before lil'Gotham. Man, I need to find it @-@////

----------


## Rebeca Armus

So, here Damian is with this no named girl, he is just showing her Batmobile ina Don Juan way.



In this 2 pages he is kind coward:

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I didn't talk about this before, but this speak/gesture/facial expressions page don't match with Damian now or from Batman & Robin.




He was ten and Damian, but they write him really different when he showed up in comics in begin.

I just didn't find he asking about Katana status...

----------


## TheCape

> So, here Damian is with this no named girl, he is just showing her Batmobile ina Don Juan way.
> 
> 
> 
> In this 2 pages he is kind coward:


Oh yeah, that was Battle For the Cowl, that mini is weird, mostly because all the Robins are really OOC, except for Dick

----------


## dietrich

> I didn't talk about this before, but this speak/gesture/facial expressions page don't match with Damian now or from Batman & Robin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He was ten and Damian, but they write him really different when he showed up in comics in begin.
> 
> I just didn't find he asking about Katana status...


Because he was different when he showed up.

----------


## Blue22

> In this 2 pages he is kind coward:
> https://2.bp.blogspot.com/XiWDx1XOMK...dJrXaaKj3rg=s0
> https://2.bp.blogspot.com/t7IN8OxQj1...svMwoCufYfA=s0


Good God! I sent that so far into the darkest corner of my mind that I forgot it happened. Early Damian really was....different. Current Damian would throttle this kid just for even suggesting that they're the same person XD

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Good God! I sent that so far into the darkest corner of my mind that I forgot it happened. Early Damian really was....different. Current Damian would throttle this kid just for even suggesting that they're the same person XD


Ndkdnfbdndndjkshebdndb
I know, I knew Damian Since Batman and Robin (with Bruce), after this I read his origin, and after this Batman & Robin (with Dick), I would probably not like Damian if I just read this minis.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Because he was different when he showed up.


Yeah, he changed 80% of his personality and 100% the way of deal with each situation.

----------


## dietrich

> Good God! I sent that so far into the darkest corner of my mind that I forgot it happened. Early Damian really was....different. Current Damian would throttle this kid just for even suggesting that they're the same person XD


Batman and Son Damian was different but Morrison's Batman and Robin Damian is Damian

----------


## dietrich

Can't wait for Fandome. 
I wonder if Damian will show in Taylor's Injustice Prequel? Not a huge fan of prequels but just need positive Damian reading material while Joker War is going on. 

I wonder if we'll get more details on Gotham Knights game. I hope Damian is a playable character though with the game rumoured to be utilising the Court Of Owls it's unlikely

----------


## Morgoth

Rumors claimed, that in Gothan Knights there will be Nightwing, Batgirl and Robin alongside Batman, but no one made clear, who's Robin in this game. 
Although, WB prefers Damian, so maybe it's him and not Tim. It's a reboot anyway.



> I wonder if Damian will show in Taylor's Injustice Prequel?


Yeah, first issue.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Can't wait for Fandome. 
> I wonder if Damian will show in Taylor's Injustice Prequel? Not a huge fan of prequels but just need positive Damian reading material while Joker War is going on. 
> 
> I wonder if we'll get more details on Gotham Knights game. I hope Damian is a playable character though with the game rumoured to be utilising the Court Of Owls it's unlikely


Also he's mentioned by Bruce on second issue, with love (sarcasm). Don't know why Taylor write Bruce talk about Damian with distaste even though on preview issue we were shown that Bruce and Damian are so similar with each other. I guess DCeased makes me forget for a moment that Injustice is a series when Taylor put all his might to created broken bond between Bruce and Damian. Don't think that Damian will appear again on prequel, because it's focused on JSA. Well, we still has Dead Planet, Batman Beyond, and Hope at World's End as our reading material until Joker War ends.

----------


## dietrich

> Also he's mentioned by Bruce on second issue, with love (sarcasm). Don't know why Taylor write Bruce talk about Damian with distaste even though on preview issue we were shown that Bruce and Damian are so similar with each other. I guess DCeased makes me forget for a moment that Injustice is a series when Taylor put all his might to created broken bond between Bruce and Damian. Don't think that Damian will appear again on prequel, because it's focused on JSA. Well, we still has Dead Planet, Batman Beyond, and Hope at World's End as our reading material until Joker War ends.


Taylor isn't a Game developer, he didn't create Injustice, He didn't pick the Rooster and he did not have any say in who is on who's side.

It isn't fair to blame Taylor for something the game marked mandated
Blaming the dude who went out of his way to sneak in positive moments between Damian and Bruce.

I don't understand it. Fans do the same with WW.  Tom Taylor doesn't work for Netherealm nor does he work for WB Gaming. He had nothing to do with the story concept, he didn't decide the rooster nor was he even the original writer of Injustice

Stop blaming him for stuff he had nothing to do with 
The amazing look back at Damian's time as Robin in Injstice 2
Damian becoming the hero in Injustice 2
Damian's journey to redemption in Injustice 2 All the good thing's from the Comics that did not reflect in the games That was Taylor.

Damian is a bad guy in Injustice. Bad guys do bad shit. It's an else world.

Don't crucify Taylor for something that happens in an elseworld where Damian is a bad guy. It's an else world and Damian being a bad guy there wasn't decided by Taylor.

What did Tom Taylor do with Damian in the main universe? He gave us Tec 1017 the best Bruce and Damian story we've had in over a year in the main DCverse.

It looks like those are our only options till Joker War is over. Who knows we might get some surprises before then.

----------


## dietrich

> Rumors claimed, that in Gothan Knights there will be Nightwing, Batgirl and Robin alongside Batman, but no one made clear, who's Robin in this game. 
> Although, WB prefers Damian, so maybe it's him and not Tim. It's a reboot anyway.
> 
> Yeah, first issue.


Thank you. Looks like I have to check it out.

----------


## Wingin' It

> Rumors claimed, that in Gothan Knights there will be Nightwing, Batgirl and Robin alongside Batman, but no one made clear, who's Robin in this game. 
> Although, WB prefers Damian, so maybe it's him and not Tim. It's a reboot anyway.
> 
> Yeah, first issue.


I hope it is Damian. There's a lot you could do with him.

----------


## Morgoth

> I hope it is Damian. There's a lot you could do with him.


WB worked on Damian game before that project was cancelled. And the developments of that game, judging by Schreier's words, are used for the Gotham Knights.
So, I guess Damian will be in this game.

----------


## dietrich

looks like DC is Cleaning House and while it's sad to see so many lose their jobs I do think it's time the brought in some fresh blood. 

As was mentioned on another thread that what we need is to get rid of the fanboys and old guard with their nostalgia googles.

DC Comics is a business and should be run as such. 

No more writers getting put on books because they attended a certain someone's writing Class. No more editors slacking off 

Personally I hope they bring in people from outside the comics industry. Retaining Jim Lee is a pooper. The guy was there and signed on for all the bad decisions made by DC for decades now.

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/jim-...losion-rumors/

----------


## CPSparkles

> looks like DC is Cleaning House and while it's sad to see so many lose their jobs I do think it's time the brought in some fresh blood. 
> 
> As was mentioned on another thread that what we need is to get rid of the fanboys and old guard with their nostalgia googles.
> 
> DC Comics is a business and should be run as such. 
> 
> No more writers getting put on books because they attended a certain someone's writing Class. No more editors slacking off 
> 
> Personally I hope they bring in people from outside the comics industry. Retaining Jim Lee is a pooper. The guy was there and signed on for all the bad decisions made by DC for decades now.
> ...


You mean AT&T is cleaning house?

It was to be expected after the take over only every thought  DCuniverse would be the casualty like the article said.

Harras, Doyle and Cunningham those are some big names

----------


## CPSparkles

> Taylor isn't a Game developer, he didn't create Injustice, He didn't pick the Rooster and he did not have any say in who is on who's side.
> 
> It isn't fair to blame Taylor for something the game marked mandated
> Blaming the dude who went out of his way to sneak in positive moments between Damian and Bruce.
> 
> I don't understand it. Fans do the same with WW.  Tom Taylor doesn't work for Netherealm nor does he work for WB Gaming. He had nothing to do with the story concept, he didn't decide the rooster nor was he even the original writer of Injustice
> 
> Stop blaming him for stuff he had nothing to do with 
> The amazing look back at Damian's time as Robin in Injstice 2
> ...


Taylor was the original writer of Injustice but you are right about the concept and villains not decided by him

----------


## Konja7

> looks like DC is Cleaning House and while it's sad to see so many lose their jobs I do think it's time the brought in some fresh blood. 
> 
> As was mentioned on another thread that what we need is to get rid of the fanboys and old guard with their nostalgia googles.
> 
> DC Comics is a business and should be run as such. 
> 
> No more writers getting put on books because they attended a certain someone's writing Class. No more editors slacking off 
> 
> Personally I hope they bring in people from outside the comics industry. Retaining Jim Lee is a pooper. The guy was there and signed on for all the bad decisions made by DC for decades now.
> ...


Many people in DC Comics is fired. It seems pretty likely the amount of monthly comics will be reduce a lot. 

It seems that they are going to focus on the big superhero names. Batman still sells pretty good, so it seems to be pretty likely Batman comics will be a big percenteage. 

I wonder what will happen with Damian. Maybe a Batman and Robin comic?

----------


## Morgoth

Nothing will happen. He's popular, and WB prefers him, so, they won't remove him completely. If the editorial will be completely changed in favor of someone from the WB, then there is an even greater chance that everything that happened to him over the past couple of years will be canceled.
I'd be more worried about Tim.

----------


## adrikito

> looks like DC is Cleaning House and while it's sad to see so many lose their jobs I do think it's time the brought in some fresh blood. 
> 
> As was mentioned on another thread that what we need is to get rid of the fanboys and old guard with their nostalgia googles.
> 
> DC Comics is a business and should be run as such. 
> 
> No more writers getting put on books because they attended a certain someone's writing Class. No more editors slacking off 
> 
> Personally I hope they bring in people from outside the comics industry. Retaining Jim Lee is a pooper. The guy was there and signed on for all the bad decisions made by DC for decades now.
> ...


I desire you THE BEST Damian..

Probably a bad moment now that seems that he will lose the Robin role during certain time.

----------


## dietrich

> Many people in DC Comics is fired. It seems pretty likely the amount of monthly comics will be reduce a lot. 
> 
> It seems that they are going to focus on the big superhero names. Batman still sells pretty good, so it seems to be pretty likely Batman comics will be a big percenteage. 
> 
> I wonder what will happen with Damian. Maybe a Batman and Robin comic?


I doubt a Batman and Robin book will happen. AT&T is only interested in DC comics as a source for content. Batman with Robin isn't a thing that the general public got hyped about. The most successful Robin's we've seen in outside media are usually version's that are not next to Batman.

Supersons is far more likely or something like Nightwing and Robin. DCeased and similar content is also likely since that series is successful.

----------


## dietrich

> Nothing will happen. He's popular, and WB prefers him, so, they won't remove him completely. If the editorial will be completely changed in favor of someone from the WB, then there is an even greater chance that everything that happened to him over the past couple of years will be canceled.
> I'd be more worried about Tim.


Agreed. Characters like Tim and Steph are the ones who are at risk. Tim in particular. AT&T isn't going to keep pushing characters because nostalgia.

Their focus is on money and characters that are mostly likely to succeed in today's market.

----------


## Morgoth

DETECTIVE COMICS #1030

Written by PETER J. TOMASI art and

Art and cover by BILQUIS EVELY

Card stock variant by LEE BERMEJO

A new foe called the Mirror has joined the Dark Knight's rogues gallery -- but is there more to this villain than meets the eye? Or is he simply a reflection of the world around him? As the Bat-Family find themselves on the run from the Mirror's army, Damian Wayne lurks in the shadows, plotting his next move in a cat-and-mouse game between father and son that can only end in disaster!

32 pages, 3.99, in stores on Nov. 10.

DETECTIVE COMICS #1031

Written by PETER J. TOMASI

Art by BILQUIS EVELY

Cover by JORGE JIMENEZ

Card stock variant by LEE BERMEJO

Damian Wayne has made his move against a familiar threat from Bruce Wayne's past -- so why has the former Boy Wonder targeted none other than Tommy Elliot -- a.k.a. Hush? It may have something to do with the Black Casebook that Bruce liberated from The Joker's territory in the monumental Detective Comics #1027...but how far will Damian go to avenge this grudge from his father's past?

detective1031a.jpg

----------


## Digifiend

Teen Titans is cancelled.

----------


## Morgoth

At least it doesn't seem like he's a villain, like many people suspected. But I wonder, what's the point of this Casebook.

----------


## Katana500

Tomasi seems to like Damian so I have faith.

I think we will see Damian in another Teen Titans Team in the assumed February relaunch. Maybe they will go for a team similar to the animated movies. I kinda think Damian might be more fun in a Teen Titans book if he wasn't the leader.

----------


## Morgoth

I doubt that. I think even if he will get back Robin's mantle or just become Bat-family member again, they won't put him in this team in the near future. Maybe he'll stay with Bruce, or he will get his own title, but I think, that next Titans team will definitely hate him, just like the most young heroes. And he obviously will have clash with Dick and Tim because of that.

----------


## Light of Justice

> DETECTIVE COMICS #1030
> 
> Written by PETER J. TOMASI art and
> 
> Art and cover by BILQUIS EVELY
> 
> Card stock variant by LEE BERMEJO
> 
> A new foe called the Mirror has joined the Dark Knight's rogues gallery -- but is there more to this villain than meets the eye? Or is he simply a reflection of the world around him? As the Bat-Family find themselves on the run from the Mirror's army, Damian Wayne lurks in the shadows, plotting his next move in a *cat-and-mouse game* between father and son that can only end in disaster!
> ...


Now we know why on Robin anniversary his story called 'Bat and Mouse'. Cat and mouse game, huh. Selina will be proud.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Tomasi seems to like Damian so I have faith.
> 
> I think we will see Damian in another Teen Titans Team in the assumed February relaunch. Maybe they will go for a team similar to the animated movies. I kinda think Damian might be more fun in a Teen Titans book if he wasn't the leader.


Please, no more Teen Titans for Damian. At least not before he's healed from current character regression.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Teen Titans is cancelled.


As expected. Wallace and Emiko aren't strong enough to support the book and with that book's treatment for their character, don't think many of their fans rooted for the book.

----------


## Astralabius

> As expected. Wallace and Emiko aren't strong enough to support the book and with that book's treatment for their character, don't think many of their fans rooted for the book.


A lot of books are being cancelled. But yeah, not sure who was supposed to read this with Damian gone.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

Thank god Teen Titans will be cancelled, I am actually surprised it lasted that long lol. I am quite worried with what will happen with Damian, but at least we know it is in Tomasi's hands, and that's certainly a relief!

Now I guess we just have to prepare ourselves for the following months and see where it will end.

----------


## Astralabius

> Tomasi seems to like Damian so I have faith.
> 
> I think we will see Damian in another Teen Titans Team in the assumed February relaunch. Maybe they will go for a team similar to the animated movies. I kinda think Damian might be more fun in a Teen Titans book if he wasn't the leader.


Don't think Tomasi can do a lot if DC wants to push Damian in a certain direction.
I hope they'll finally stop trying to put Damian on Teen Titans. His first two teams have been failures.

----------


## Konja7

> I doubt that. I think even if he will get back Robin's mantle or just become Bat-family member again, they won't put him in this team in the near future. Maybe he'll stay with Bruce, or he will get his own title, but I think, that next Titans team will definitely hate him, just like the most young heroes. And he obviously will have clash with Dick and Tim because of that.


I think a "Batman and Robin" comic is a good possibility. 

It has Batman in the title, so DC would want that.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Don't think Tomasi can do a lot if DC wants to push Damian in a certain direction.
> I hope they'll finally stop trying to put Damian on Teen Titans. His first two teams have been failures.


Acually it's three times. The first one resulted with the team prefer Tim over Damian, and that's fair. The second one didn't really went well and I'm not sure how and why they split up. Blame No Justice. The third one 'Robin betrayed them'. Animation universe kinda handled it better, but still on Judas Contract he spent more than of his time imprisoned and taunted away from his team. 
So yeah, no more Teen Titans for Damian, please..

----------


## Blue22

> Don't think Tomasi can do a lot if DC wants to push Damian in a certain direction.
> I hope they'll finally stop trying to put Damian on Teen Titans. His first two teams have been failures.


Damian on the Titans or a Titans-esque team could have worked. It's just...both ways they went about doing it weren't very good. Honestly, his time on Johns' Teen Titans was pretty good. I kinda wish he had stuck around longer because he had some nice interactions with Rose and Conner. Hell, his time with them in the two movies were good too. Damian on a team can work. Just...make it good lol




> Please, no more Teen Titans for Damian. At least not before he's healed from current character regression.


Now this, I can agree with. He's not in a good place right now and I'd prefer he go back to "normal" before they go down that road with him again.

----------


## Astralabius

> Damian on the Titans or a Titans-esque team could have worked. It's just...both ways they went about doing it weren't very good. Honestly, his time on Johns' Teen Titans was pretty good. I kinda wish he had stuck around longer because he had some nice interactions with Rose and Conner. Hell, his time with them in the two movies were good too. Damian on a team can work. Just...make it good lol


Yeah, I think Damian could work on Teen Titans too under better writers.
It's just after four years and two teams of it not working I would really rather see him solo or work with Bruce or Dick. Pretty tired of the Teen Titans.

----------


## Blue22

> Yeah, I think Damian could work on Teen Titans too under better writers.
> It's just after four years and two teams of it not working I would really rather see him solo or work with Bruce or Dick. Pretty tired of the Teen Titans.


I can get behind that. As a big Damian fan and an even bigger Teen Titans fan, seeing the direction they've both headed in together has been...painful, to say the least. A break would probably be for the best while they sort themselves out.

In the meantime, I don't know if I want him back with Bruce. Quite frankly, Bruce doesn't deserve him back. A good chunk of Damian's downward spiral was his fault. If Damian doesn't go off on his own, I'd rather see him just stick with his fellow Robins. Especially Dick. Those two working together is always gold. I'd totally start buying Nightwing again if Damian was around as a supporting character.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I can get behind that. As a big Damian fan and an even bigger Teen Titans fan, seeing the direction they've both headed in together has been...painful, to say the least. A break would probably be for the best while they sort themselves out.
> 
> In the meantime, I don't know if I want him back with Bruce. Quite frankly, Bruce doesn't deserve him back. A good chunk of Damian's downward spiral was his fault. If Damian doesn't go off on his own, I'd rather see him just stick with his fellow Robins. Especially Dick. Those two working together is always gold. I'd totally start buying Nightwing again if Damian was around as a supporting character.


Nightwing book is not on a good condition. Duo with Dick may be nice for us, but Nightwing must set his ground straight first before conducting any collab. It's also for the sake of Nightwing fans who already waited patiently for the end of Ric arc and to get their fav back. 
I think whether we liked it or not, Damian stuck with Batman for now.

----------


## Astralabius

> I can get behind that. As a big Damian fan and an even bigger Teen Titans fan, seeing the direction they've both headed in together has been...painful, to say the least. A break would probably be for the best while they sort themselves out.
> 
> In the meantime, I don't know if I want him back with Bruce. Quite frankly, Bruce doesn't deserve him back. A good chunk of Damian's downward spiral was his fault. If Damian doesn't go off on his own, I'd rather see him just stick with his fellow Robins. Especially Dick. Those two working together is always gold. I'd totally start buying Nightwing again if Damian was around as a supporting character.


"Bruce doesn't deserve him back"
Not sure if DC sees it that way. They are great at deflecting blame from Bruce.
I personally find Bruce and Damian's relationship more interesting because their similarities force them not only to confront the other, but also themselves, but to each their own.

----------


## Blue22

> "Bruce doesn't deserve him back"
> Not sure if DC sees it that way. They are great at deflecting blame from Bruce.
> I personally find Bruce and Damian's relationship more interesting because their similarities force them not only to confront the other, but also themselves, but to each their own.


They're great together. Especially when they're (mostly) getting along and Tomasi's writing them. I just...think he's better with Dick.

----------


## Astralabius

> They're great together. Especially when they're (mostly) getting along and Tomasi's writing them. I just...think he's better with Dick.


Er, I have to agree with Light of Justice though. Nightwing should focus on himself for a bit after two years of Ric.

----------


## Light of Justice

> "Bruce doesn't deserve him back"
> Not sure if DC sees it that way. They are great at deflecting blame from Bruce.
> I personally find Bruce and Damian's relationship more interesting because their similarities force them not only to confront the other, but also themselves, but to each their own.


Yeah, and if there's a writer we can count to write Bruce and Damian good relationship, it's Tomasi.

----------


## Morgoth

Anyway, he's under Tomasi wing again, and that's the best thing happened with the character since Super Sons. Whatever happens next, I trust Tomasi.

----------


## Restingvoice

So while Damian is busy, Batman Who Laughs is infecting Batcow, Titus and all the super pets 


https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/SEFwzpvv9i2UwHmXB9HbFD-970-80.jpg.webp

----------


## Konja7

> They're great together. Especially when they're (mostly) getting along and Tomasi's writing them. I just...think he's better with Dick.


I really doubt Dick is an option. 

I suspect the options are likely Bruce or limbo.

----------


## king81992

> Damian on the Titans or a Titans-esque team could have worked. It's just...both ways they went about doing it weren't very good. Honestly, his time on Johns' Teen Titans was pretty good. I kinda wish he had stuck around longer because he had some nice interactions with Rose and Conner. Hell, his time with them in the two movies were good too. Damian on a team can work. Just...make it good lol
> 
> 
> 
> Now this, I can agree with. He's not in a good place right now and I'd prefer he go back to "normal" before they go down that road with him again.


Damian would work on a Titans roster where the characters actually call him  out and put their foot down when he crosses the line. The other characters want to act like Damian led them down the wrong path(which he did) but  the only one who actually did something about it was Roundhose( though he went about things in the worse way possible). They all played along until it was inconvenient to them.

----------


## king81992

> I can get behind that. As a big Damian fan and an even bigger Teen Titans fan, seeing the direction they've both headed in together has been...painful, to say the least. A break would probably be for the best while they sort themselves out.
> 
> In the meantime, I don't know if I want him back with Bruce. Quite frankly, Bruce doesn't deserve him back. A good chunk of Damian's downward spiral was his fault. If Damian doesn't go off on his own, I'd rather see him just stick with his fellow Robins. Especially Dick. Those two working together is always gold. I'd totally start buying Nightwing again if Damian was around as a supporting character.


Agree, Bruce gets to much of free pass from writers and some fans regarding how badly he treats his family and friends.

----------


## king81992

> I really doubt Dick is an option. 
> 
> I suspect the options are likely Bruce or limbo.


Dick is an option if writers decide to ignore the Ric debacle and focus on telling stories.

----------


## Blue22

> I really doubt Dick is an option. 
> 
> I suspect the options are likely Bruce or limbo.


Oh I know there's, like, next to zero chance of him being partnered with Dick for any long period of time. Those days are over, I'm afraid.

Just thinking out loud on what I wish would happen lol

----------


## Aahz

> I think we will see Damian in another Teen Titans Team in the assumed February relaunch. Maybe they will go for a team similar to the animated movies.


They kind of did that in Rebirth, and honestly the current team worked imo way better, having Damian on a team with characters that belong into Dick's gen is just wired.

----------


## Blue22

I don't mind a mixed generation team. That's what my favorite TT run was, back in the early 2000s. They just...need to not make Damian the leader when he's on a team of veterans. All of whom had been leaders of the Titans in some capacity before. That never really made a lot of sense to me. 

That was a *really* solid line up (Wallace notwithstanding). But it felt like every other arc was dedicated to Damian butting heads with someone and showing why him being the leader was a mistake.

----------


## Aahz

> I don't mind a mixed generation team.


But I don't think that that works well with Damian, at least not when he is far younger then the rest of the team. 

In the animated series the other characters were aged down closer to his age iirc.

And it doesn't really help that most of these characters should actually be Dicks age.

----------


## dietrich

Damian worked in TT. Percy's TT was great just that BB was a bully.
Glass had a mandate.
Comic fans complain about AnimatedUniverse Damian in Tt but surprise surprise he is the stand out and the one along with raven that the fans embraced.

It's going to be tough because it's clear that what the higher ups and the greater non comic reading market want for Damian are different from what the comic readers what.

----------


## dietrich

> So while Damian is busy, Batman Who Laughs is infecting Batcow, Titus and all the super pets 
> 
> 
> https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/SEFwzpvv9i2UwHmXB9HbFD-970-80.jpg.webp


I am glad they included Clay critter
I'm also glad WB is reviewing the contract of big writers like Synder, King and Bendis. Enough of this rubbish.
Also very glad that Taylor is getting so much critical and commercial success with DCesaed and that WB is paying attention.

They need to be pushing more material like DCeased not this representation of snyder's mid-life crisis

----------


## Jackalope89

> I am glad they included Clay critter
> I'm also glad WB is reviewing the contract of big writers like Synder, King and Bendis. Enough of this rubbish.
> Also very glad that Taylor is getting so much critical and commercial success with DCesaed and that WB is paying attention.
> 
> They need to be pushing more material like DCeased not this representation of snyder's mid-life crisis


Eh, maybe less zombie stuff. Elseworlds is fine, but other than certain character moments, not a fan of the dark stuff Taylor has put out.

----------


## Astralabius

> Anyway, he's under Tomasi wing again, and that's the best thing happened with the character since Super Sons. Whatever happens next, I trust Tomasi.


I trust Tomasi too. I just don't trust DC and their mandated direction for Damian.

----------


## Blue22

> I trust Tomasi too. I just don't trust DC and their mandated direction for Damian.


I'm kinda wondering though. How much of that had to do with Didio? Could things possibly be looking up with him gone?

----------


## Light of Justice

Preview TT 44



[IMG]https://***********/aiptcomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/teen-titans_443.jpg?resize=666%2C1024&ssl=1[/IMG]

----------


## Light of Justice

[IMG]https://***********/aiptcomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/teen-titans_444.jpg?resize=666%2C1024&ssl=1[/IMG]

----------


## Blue22

*siiiiiiiiiiiiiigh*

Every part of that was painful to read. And...honestly it was kinda painful to look at too. What is with this run and its hit or miss art?

----------


## Astralabius

> I'm kinda wondering though. How much of that had to do with Didio? Could things possibly be looking up with him gone?


Don't think so. Remember that the annual was originally supposed to come out after Teen Titans 41, so after the Djinn War arc. At this point Damian would have only been responsible for the prison and the brainwashing, he didn't kill anyone.
Then Didio was fired and the lockdown came along with many changes at DC, including pushing the annual where Damian would lose the mantle back to August and giving us the current arc instead of Thompson's original plans.

----------


## Astralabius

> *siiiiiiiiiiiiiigh*
> 
> Every part of that was painful to read. And...honestly it was kinda painful to look at too. What is with this run and its hit or miss art?


Yeah thanks, I hate it.

----------


## Wingin' It

> Don't think so. Remember that the annual was originally supposed to come out after Teen Titans 41, so after the Djinn War arc. At this point Damian would have only been responsible for the prison and the brainwashing, he didn't kill anyone.
> Then Didio was fired and the lockdown came along with many changes at DC, including pushing the annual where Damian would lose the mantle back to August and giving us the current arc instead of Thompson's original plans.


I'm still not convinced Damian has killed anyone.

----------


## Astralabius

> I'm still not convinced Damian has killed anyone.


Even if he lied about killing Brother Blood for some reason, Damian's thoughts made his intentions for KGBeast pretty clear last issue. He has no reason to lie in his own thoughts.

----------


## Eckri

Supposedly Damian kills someone, then looses the Robin mantle, and does whatever he's going to do in Detective Comics#1030 and 1031. 
Plus Tim Drake might be Robin again.
Concluding in Damian becomes a semi-villain for a few issues tops, might not be a semi villain considering this was the second time he broke his no kill rule.
Don't know how the Bat family is going to forgive him after this.

----------


## Astralabius

> Supposedly Damian kills someone, then looses the Robin mantle, and does whatever he's going to do in Detective Comics#1030 and 1031. 
> Plus Tim Drake might be Robin again.
> Concluding in Damian becomes a semi-villain for a few issues tops, might not be a semi villain considering this was the second time he broke his no kill rule.
> Don't know how the Bat family is going to forgive him after this.


The last time Damian killed was to protect his family. This isn't like that at all. There are no sympathetic reasons for Damian to do this.
If they even want to redeem him it's going to be difficult.

----------


## Blue22

We've already seen how Bats reacts to murders, with how he handled Jason. Damian might finally lose his title as the only son that Bruce has never hit. 

[laughs to keep from crying]

----------


## TheCape

> We've already seen how Bats reacts to murders, with how he handled Jason. Damian might finally lose his title as the only son that Bruce has never hit. 
> 
> [laughs to keep from crying]


Nah, Damian looks like a kid, DC is not gonna have Bruce puching an infant without being mind controlled or something.

----------


## Eckri

> Nah, Damian looks like a kid, DC is not gonna have Bruce puching an infant without being mind controlled or something.


Dick got slapped 
Jason got beat downed
Tim got an uppercut 
The best thing Damian could hope is a punch to the stomach.

----------


## Jackalope89

If you guys liked Super Sons, here's Trinity fanfic. Its about Jon, Damian, and Lyta Trevor as teens and continuing the hero work of their parents. Damian is still a little shit, but a good hero. Jon is naturally aged up (along with everyone), they're all the same age, and each have their own arcs through the story.

https://archiveofourown.org/works/23...pters/55987546

----------


## scary harpy

> Dick got slapped 
> Jason got beat downed
> Tim got an uppercut 
> The best thing Damian could hope is a punch to the stomach.


Jon Kent punched Damian in the stomach.

----------


## Fergus

> Preview TT 44
> 
> 
> 
> [IMG]https://***********/aiptcomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/teen-titans_443.jpg?resize=666%2C1024&ssl=1[/IMG]


This looks interesting. Damian looks badass and lethal

----------


## Fergus

> We've already seen how Bats reacts to murders, with how he handled Jason. Damian might finally lose his title as the only son that Bruce has never hit. 
> 
> [laughs to keep from crying]


Bruce smacked Jason for breaking a promise. he was 100% fine with him killing. Damian isn't in Gotham he can kill any one he wants and Bruce won't say peep

----------


## Grandmaster_J

I don't care what Damian ends up doing to KGBeast. Dude needs a beat down anyway

----------


## DurararaFTW

> Bruce smacked Jason for breaking a promise. he was 100% fine with him killing. Damian isn't in Gotham he can kill any one he wants and Bruce won't say peep


Jason worked a long time to get Bruce to compromise on a no killing in Gotham deal. Years of strive between them had gone by before then. And Jason isn't a kid, Bruce's own son and isn't currently Robin either.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Bruce smacked Jason for breaking a promise. he was 100% fine with him killing. Damian isn't in Gotham he can kill any one he wants and Bruce won't say peep


The first part is woefully understated. It took months for Jason to recover from the brutal beating Bruce gave him. 
The second part is plain wrong. Bruce was never fine with him killing (and hadn't killed anyway). That was Bruce being an untrusting douche as usual.
The third part is about as wrong as can be. Bruce is kind of infamous for enforcing his beliefs on others.

----------


## Blue22

Just a friendly reminder of the before times, when things didn't suck. Because I feel like we're gonna need to be reminded of this conversation very soon.

Man, I miss this run. So much.

----------


## Korath

That run was great yes. Then Rebirth had Batman go full jerk ass and nowadays I can't accept that him and Damian can work or even live together. Bruce's too much of an asshole now to be with his son. He never cared for his birthday, he never seemed to care for him period since 2016. That's very long and it's been very consistent in most titles. That's why I hope Tomasi won't try to make amends between the two. I'll take Damian as an antagonisy even a villain over him working with Bruce again.

----------


## Wingin' It

> That run was great yes. Then Rebirth had Batman go full jerk ass and nowadays I can't accept that him and Damian can work or even live together. Bruce's too much of an asshole now to be with his son. He never cared for his birthday, he never seemed to care for him period since 2016. That's very long and it's been very consistent in most titles. That's why I hope Tomasi won't try to make amends between the two. I'll take Damian as an antagonisy even a villain over him working with Bruce again.


Nothing in comics is permanent or irreparable. Damian's his son, I don't doubt we're going to see them reconcile even if we don't get a Batman and Robin title with the two of them again.

----------


## Astralabius

> That run was great yes. Then Rebirth had Batman go full jerk ass and nowadays I can't accept that him and Damian can work or even live together. Bruce's too much of an asshole now to be with his son. He never cared for his birthday, he never seemed to care for him period since 2016. That's very long and it's been very consistent in most titles. That's why I hope Tomasi won't try to make amends between the two. I'll take Damian as an antagonisy even a villain over him working with Bruce again.


I get the wish to see Bruce suffering for all the shit he has done, but DC would make Damian get the short end of the stick trust me.
Just look at how they wrote the Bruce and Damian story in the Robin anniversary special.
Damian is proven wrong the entire time. He thinks he can fool Bruce and links that to Bruce's failing ways. He wrong and Bruce looks right through his deception.
Damian runs into the fight thinking he can take the bad guys alone, Bruce has to run after him and is the one that saves their asses after Damian has to admit defeat.
The only thing we'll get from Damian as a villain/antagonist is him getting shit on. Even if Tomasi doesn't do it, you can bet your ass the rest of DC will.

----------


## Astralabius

> Bruce smacked Jason for breaking a promise. he was 100% fine with him killing. Damian isn't in Gotham he can kill any one he wants and Bruce won't say peep


You sure have a weird look at comic books and how heroism in DC works. But the others have already pointed out why you're wrong.

----------


## Astralabius

> This looks interesting. Damian looks badass and lethal


He literally just got his target taken from him. Which I promise you will be his future if he wants to kill criminals.
Choosing lethal methods to get rid of criminals DC doesn't want to get rid of only leads to the guy trying to kill them being really bad at his job.

----------


## Astralabius

> I don't care what Damian ends up doing to KGBeast. Dude needs a beat down anyway


He will survive. He's in the October and November solicitations for Nightwing.

----------


## Fergus

> You sure have a weird look at comic books and how heroism in DC works. But the others have already pointed out why you're wrong.


I currently don't view Bruce, Jason and Damian as heroes.
Damian has killed before and Bruce didn't do anything.
Bruce was fine with Jason killing outside of Gotham.

If Bruce has covered up one son killing and is fine with another who wears his brand on his chest killing outside of Gotham then he's not that rigid

----------


## Fergus

> That run was great yes. Then Rebirth had Batman go full jerk ass and nowadays I can't accept that him and Damian can work or even live together. Bruce's too much of an asshole now to be with his son. He never cared for his birthday, he never seemed to care for him period since 2016. That's very long and it's been very consistent in most titles. That's why I hope Tomasi won't try to make amends between the two. I'll take Damian as an antagonisy even a villain over him working with Bruce again.


Bruce was a good dad to Damian in Superman, Supersons, GA, Metal, No Justice and Tec.

Bruce forgetting Damian's Birthday done to make us feel for Damian so I don't blame Bruce since he was intentionally written as a bad father.
There's however no excuse for King's Batman and Pennyworth RIP.

However if Bruce's kids shunned him whenever he's a douche then he would have no kids.

----------


## Morgoth

Latest Gothan Knights "leak" (I think you understand, that it doesn't confirm anything yet) claims, that Damian will be Robin in the game.

----------


## Light of Justice

*spoilers:*
 So it settled folks, Damian explicitly admitted that he killed Brother Blood. In front of Bruce nonetheless. 
*end of spoilers*

So I don't see how Damian will heal from this. D-7 to the inevitable.
On my 5 stage of grief over the whole run of Damian character assassination, I am officially on acceptance stage. To tired for anger, no use for denial, no hope for bargaining, too fed up for depression, now I can only accept it as *blegh* canon.

Sigh, just, get over it already.

----------


## Morgoth

Who cares, they're gonna cancel it anyway. Titans really just pointless title right now.

----------


## Eckri

Just read Teen Titans issue 44.
Anyone else and their thoughts on the issue?

----------


## scary harpy

> *spoilers:*
>  So it settled folks, Damian explicitly admitted that he killed Brother Blood. In front of Bruce nonetheless. 
> *end of spoilers*
> 
> So I don't see how Damian will heal from this. D-7 to the inevitable.
> On my 5 stage of grief over the whole run of Damian character assassination, I am officially on acceptance stage. To tired for anger, no use for denial, no hope for bargaining, too fed up for depression, now I can only accept it as *blegh* canon.
> 
> Sigh, just, get over it already.


Do not grieve for Damian yet.

Soon, DC will do a reboot.

After Death Metal will be Endless Winter.

Somewhere in there will a fresh start.

I suspect much of this garbage will be thrown out.

----------


## Konja7

> Do not grieve for Damian yet.
> 
> Soon, DC will do a reboot.
> 
> After Death Metal will be Endless Winter.
> 
> Somewhere in there will a fresh start.
> 
> I suspect much of this garbage will be thrown out.


I agree. It's pretty possible Bruce and Damian end up resolving their differences in Detective Comics by Tomasi. 

Now, it is possible Tim will still be Drake in the Robin suit, then Damian will still be the only Robin.

----------


## Morgoth

Doom War presumbaly set in the near future, after all of that. Damian was still Robin there. Just to say (I found out recently).
Anyway, I don't believe all of this will last long, maybe until January-February. Especially with recent layoffs and new editors. And if Damian will be Robin in Gotham Knights, against the background of this, they clearly will not make him a villain or too cruel anti-hero in comics. So, really, I just don't care what's happening in TT now, it's just not that important with all what's going on.

----------


## Wingin' It

How was Bruce and Damian's confrontation? Did Damian explain why he is doing any of this?

----------


## Korath

> I agree. It's pretty possible Bruce and Damian end up resolving their difference in Detective Comics by Tomasi. 
> 
> Now, it is possible Tim will still be Drake in the Robin suit, then Damian will still be the only Robin.


It'd require more than an issue or two for that to happen. And it'd require Batman to admit openly that he was wrong about a lot of things he did -or didn't - and I can't see that happening any time soon. Which is a shame because the characters badly needs this and I'm one of the few who really like Damian going away from his father and the al'Ghul both, to carve out his own destiny.

And considering that Tomasi committed Supersons, I'd rather he not touch Damian again, but alas...

----------


## Godlike13

> How was Bruce and Damian's confrontation? Did Damian explain why he is doing any of this?


It was just a end tease in 44. Attempts at an explanation would presumably be next issue.

----------


## king81992

> Just read Teen Titans issue 44.
> Anyone else and their thoughts on the issue?


Not surprising considering the current run. Comics Damian is a terrible leader and frankly, his team didn't bother call him out. Well, Roundhouse tried, but went about things in the worst way possible.

I've seen fans criticize Beast Boy and Raven in the previous TT run because they called out Damian, but they were 100% right. Except for Roundhouse and maybe Kid Flash(who always talks about morality, but never takes steps to stop teammates from crossing the line), they were all okay with Damian's shadiness until they suddenly decided they weren't and tried to blame him for everything. Damian SHOULD shoulder most of the blame, but this roster enabled him by going along with his stupidity.

----------


## DurararaFTW

> Not surprising considering the current run. Comics Damian is a terrible leader and frankly, his team didn't bother call him out. Well, Roundhouse tried, but went about things in the worst way possible.
> 
> I've seen fans criticize Beast Boy and Raven in the previous TT run because they called out Damian, but they were 100% right. Except for Roundhouse and maybe Kid Flash(who always talks about morality, but never takes steps to stop teammates from crossing the line), they were all okay with Damian's shadiness until they suddenly decided they weren't and tried to blame him for everything. Damian SHOULD shoulder most of the blame, but this roster enabled him by going along with his stupidity.


Just by joining a team that had Damian as leader Kid Flash was a making an  unforgivable mistake and gave a false impression of to what degree Damian can be reasoned. If Wallace doesn't know better already, he can't expect the others too.

----------


## king81992

> Just by joining a team that had Damian as leader Kid Flash was a making an  unforgivable mistake and gave a false impression of to what degree Damian can be reasoned. If Wallace doesn't know better already, he can't expect the others too.


I find it funny that Team Defiance for all their mental issues and amorality treated Kid Flash better than Damian EVER did.

----------


## Godlike13

Damian never pretended to be a nurturer.

----------


## Blue22

> I'm one of the few who really like Damian going away from his father and the al'Ghul both, to carve out his own destiny.


You're not though. You're just one of the few people who thinks this is the only way to do it. I have no problem with him and Bruce staying estranged for a while but he doesn't have to go down this unnecessarily and misguided edgehole to do it. It's not moving away from Bruce and the Al-Ghuls. It's just making him more of an Al-Ghul, like he was when he first came onto the scene.




> And considering that Tomasi committed Supersons, I'd rather he not touch Damian again, but alas...


And that's exactly why I need Tomasi back. He and Gleason are some of the only writers who acknowledge that Damian's development and realize that there's more to him than the perpetually angry Robin with Daddy issues....which makes sense since they wrote like half of said development. Even in Super Sons, the only misstep that I think Tomasi took was towards the VERY end of that little chapter in Damian's life. And I can't even remember exactly what that misstep was.




> I find it funny that Team Defiance for all their mental issues and amorality treated Kid Flash better than Damian EVER did.


That's because KF was a whiny little bitch all throughout Percy's run. That's *part* of the reason I still hate him now.

Of all the bad decisions Damian made as leader, I still never understand why they made him feel like the one that needed to apologize after that whole firing situation. He was right!

----------


## DurararaFTW

> Of all the bad decisions Damian made as leader, I still never understand why they made him feel like the one that needed to apologize after that whole firing situation. He was right!


Being ready to let each and every single one of one of the Titans and Teen Titans save Raven be lost in the Speedforce in order to be rid of Deathstroke was a bit of dick move. He was walking away from the situation outright when Aqualad just happened to show up in time to stop him. The way he comforted Raven afterwards shows his extreme characterisation was played for laughs, but if you have over a dozen characters in a comic written seriously and just one whose words and deeds can't be taken as is, that character has the problem.

----------


## Blue22

> Being ready to let each and every single one of one of the Titans and Teen Titans save Raven be lost in the Speedforce in order to be rid of Deathstroke was a bit of dick move. He was walking away from the situation outright when Aqualad just happened to show up in time to stop him. The way he comforted Raven afterwards shows his extreme characterisation was played for laughs, but if you have over a dozen characters in a comic written seriously and just one whose words and deeds can't be taken as is, that character has the problem.


Oh yeah, that was bad, no doubt. And I have almost as many issues with Damian in that run than I do with Wallace...almost. 

But that's not the apology they wanted from him. No. It was specifically making him apologize for letting Wallace go. To which he should have responded by firing Gar too. Because he was the other one on that team who wouldn't. Stop. Complaining. About. Everything. Granted, he had much more of a reason to, given how horribly he's been treated by the New 52 AND Rebirth. But that's a rant for another day.

Point I'm trying to make is, that crossover was terrible and it definitely wasn't Damian's shining moment as leader of the Titans. But firing Wallace was not one of the many mistakes he made, and only led to a trend, that's still going, where everyone loves to make Damian the bad guy.

----------


## king81992

> You're not though. You're just one of the few people who thinks this is the only way to do it. I have no problem with him and Bruce staying estranged for a while but he doesn't have to go down this unnecessarily and misguided edgehole to do it. It's not moving away from Bruce and the Al-Ghuls. It's just making him more of an Al-Ghul, like he was when he first came onto the scene.
> 
> 
> 
> And that's exactly why I need Tomasi back. He and Gleason are some of the only writers who acknowledge that Damian's development and realize that there's more to him than the perpetually angry Robin with Daddy issues....which makes sense since they wrote like half of said development. Even in Super Sons, the only misstep that I think Tomasi took was towards the VERY end of that little chapter in Damian's life. And I can't even remember exactly what that misstep was.
> 
> 
> 
> That's because KF was a whiny little bitch all throughout Percy's run. That's *part* of the reason I still hate him now.
> ...


If I remember correctly, the other characters on the team(except maybe Aqualad who was written as Damian's yes man) didn't want Kid Flash to be kicked off, so they had nothing to apologize for.

----------


## king81992

> Oh yeah, that was bad, no doubt. And I have almost as many issues with Damian in that run than I do with Wallace...almost. 
> 
> But that's not the apology they wanted from him. No. It was specifically making him apologize for letting Wallace go. To which he should have responded by firing Gar too. Because he was the other one on that team who wouldn't. Stop. Complaining. About. Everything. Granted, he had much more of a reason to, given how horribly he's been treated by the New 52 AND Rebirth. But that's a rant for another day.
> 
> Point I'm trying to make is, that crossover was terrible and it definitely wasn't Damian's shining moment as leader of the Titans. But firing Wallace was not one of the many mistakes he made, and only led to a trend, that's still going, where everyone loves to make Damian the bad guy.


Beast Boy was right to call out Damian 90% of the time during that run.

----------


## Morgoth

They wrote him as a bad leader, that's a fact, unfortunately.

----------


## Restingvoice

was the Siegel and Shuster school in Super Sons the first school Damian actually attend?

----------


## Korath

> was the Siegel and Shuster school in Super Sons the first school Damian actually attend?


Mercifully yes. Hopefully he'll never return to it and Supersons will be mostly forgotten. The more time goes, the less I like those books, really...

----------


## Astralabius

> Mercifully yes. Hopefully he'll never return to it and Supersons will be mostly forgotten. The more time goes, the less I like those books, really...


Pretty sure you're in the minority with that opinion.

----------


## Morgoth

> was the Siegel and Shuster school in Super Sons the first school Damian actually attend?


He attended Gotham Academy at some point, if I'm not mistaken, but that didn't last long.

----------


## Morgoth

> Hopefully he'll never return to it and Supersons will be mostly forgotten.


It won't, I assume you know that  :Embarrassment:

----------


## Korath

> Pretty sure you're in the minority with that opinion.


I can live with that. Damian's was so badly characterized in those series that I really don't understand how anyone who called himself a Damian fan before can support them, but I can live with that.

----------


## king81992

> Mercifully yes. Hopefully he'll never return to it and Supersons will be mostly forgotten. The more time goes, the less I like those books, really...


I like those books even more now, considering they were the last time mainline Damian was actually likable.

----------


## Blue22

> I can live with that. Damian's was so badly characterized in those series that I really don't understand how anyone who called himself a Damian fan before can support them, but I can live with that.


I'd say that I don't understand how anyone anyone who calls themselves a Damian fan could stand to see him backtrack in his development the way that he's been doing. But that's a little condescending and I recognize that there are many layers to him as a character and that people are fans of his for different reasons. You seem like a fan of how he was before he mellowed out. And that's cool.

But I became a fan of Damian because I've enjoyed watching him grow from the angry, bratty loner with a chip on his shoulder and parental issues for miles, to a good person and a genuine hero. I enjoy watching him form meaningful relationships with the people around him when, not too long ago, it would have been almost impossible for him to even acknowledge anyone but Dick as his friend. I enjoy that, while he may have occasionally still struggled with it, he used to overcome his baser instincts and Al-Ghul programming instead of giving in to them. Before now, his was one of the best examples of character growth that I'd seen in a DC comic. Seeing him happy makes me happy.

For as much as I hate the direction that a lot of my favorite characters have gone in as of late and think they're the wrong choices (Jon Ken, the X-Men, Damian, Nightwing...until recently, the Teen Titans, the Runaways...in certain aspects) I'm not gonna sit there and question the validity of the fans who enjoy those directions....just the sanity of the writers XD

----------


## Restingvoice

> I can live with that. Damian's was so badly characterized in those series that I really don't understand how anyone who called himself a Damian fan before can support them, but I can live with that.


Rule of Funny

----------


## Korath

> I'd say that I don't understand how anyone anyone who calls themselves a Damian fan could stand to see him backtrack in his development the way that he's been doing. But that's a little condescending and I recognize that there are many layers to him as a character and that people are fans of his for different reasons. You seem like a fan of how he was before he mellowed out. And that's cool.
> 
> But I became a fan of Damian because I've enjoyed watching him grow from the angry, bratty loner with a chip on his shoulder and parental issues for miles, to a good person and a genuine hero. I enjoy watching him form meaningful relationships with the people around him when, not too long ago, it would have been almost impossible for him to even acknowledge anyone but Dick as his friend. I enjoy that, while he may have occasionally still struggled with it, he used to overcome his baser instincts and Al-Ghul programming instead of giving in to them. Before now, his was one of the best examples of character growth that I'd seen in a DC comic. Seeing him happy makes me happy.
> 
> For as much as I hate the direction that a lot of my favorite characters have gone in as of late and think they're the wrong choices (Jon Ken, the X-Men, Damian, Nightwing...until recently, the Teen Titans, the Runaways...in certain aspects) I'm not gonna sit there and question the validity of the fans who enjoy those directions....just the sanity of the writers XD


I didn't know that becoming the part of a comedic duo, in adventurers with no interest nor lasting effect on the characters was character growth, that's as simple as that. Supersons was mediocre from the get go because it was just a stealth "Jon Kent is the best and thanks he's here to help his dumb friend Damian Wayne" while it did nothing of interest nor of lasting effects to Damian. The kid went to other planets, other dimensions/universes (I don't quite remember here), and all he experienced was to be the butt end of jokes. Really, Sueprsons did horrible things to his character. It cemented the idea that - just like Bruce nedds a Robin to not go insane, so too Damian needs Jon to not become some crazy maniac.

Meanwhile, TT took into account the events of No Justice where he saw a whole world dying because of his father and his team's action, he tried several ways to stop crime once and for all and kept failing. His methods may be distastful but his goals is clearly laudable and it's what I call character growth. Rejecting the flawxed creed of Bruce like he does that of Ra's is far better than to have him in need of a crutch to not go insane.

----------


## Wingin' It

> I didn't know that becoming the part of a comedic duo, in adventurers with no interest nor lasting effect on the characters was character growth, that's as simple as that. Supersons was mediocre from the get go because it was just a stealth "Jon Kent is the best and thanks he's here to help his dumb friend Damian Wayne" while it did nothing of interest nor of lasting effects to Damian. The kid went to other planets, other dimensions/universes (I don't quite remember here), and all he experienced was to be the butt end of jokes. Really, Sueprsons did horrible things to his character. It cemented the idea that - just like Bruce nedds a Robin to not go insane, so too Damian needs Jon to not become some crazy maniac.
> 
> Meanwhile, TT took into account the events of No Justice where he saw a whole world dying because of his father and his team's action, he tried several ways to stop crime once and for all and kept failing. His methods may be distastful but his goals is clearly laudable and it's what I call character growth. Rejecting the flawxed creed of Bruce like he does that of Ra's is far better than to have him in need of a crutch to not go insane.


Hey, comics can be more than just vehicles to advance the characters. Especially cape comics, which are inherently static to a degree because writers don't want to iron out all of their flaws so they can keep generating conflicts/stories.

What I mean is, there's a virtue in just having a fun series where Damian bonds with other kids his age and gets a bit of a reminder not to take life so seriously. If you didn't enjoy it that's valid, but it was also geared toward a younger demographic. You've got these great child characters, why not use them to tell coming of age/adventure stories too? If anything, I think it speaks to the versatility of the character.

----------


## Korath

> Hey, comics can be more than just vehicles to advance the characters. Especially cape comics, which are inherently static to a degree because writers don't want to iron out all of their flaws so they can keep generating conflicts/stories.
> 
> What I mean is, there's a virtue in just having a fun series where Damian bonds with other kids his age and gets a bit of a reminder not to take life so seriously. If you didn't enjoy it that's valid, but it was also geared toward a younger demographic. You've got these great child characters, why not use them to tell coming of age/adventure stories too? If anything, I think it speaks to the versatility of the character.


Well I have deep rooted problems with the static element of comics, so for me Supersons was more Damian losing stuff (his friend, his character, his character progression really) more so than "Hey, he can works for kids too!"

----------


## delaviux

Super Sons was one of the best books to come out of DC Rebirth but Damian's writing in that book was too childish there and out of character only to make their friendship with Jon worked. Someone said it very well: Super sons presented a diluted version of Damian to please everyone even those who hated him. In Super Sons he and Jon had a fun dynamic but at the cost of making Damian less heroic and more childish. He became the grumpy bad cop to contrast with Jon's goodness. A dynamic that as a Damian fan, I hated.
And honestly, I am certain that Super Sons was the only reason why his ongoing series was canceled.

Personally, this is how I think a friendship with Damian Wayne should be written while keeping his tough, arrogant and violent personality:

----------


## Blue22

> I didn't know that becoming the part of a comedic duo, in adventurers with no interest nor lasting effect on the characters was character growth, that's as simple as that. Supersons was mediocre from the get go because it was just a stealth "Jon Kent is the best and thanks he's here to help his dumb friend Damian Wayne" while it did nothing of interest nor of lasting effects to Damian. The kid went to other planets, other dimensions/universes (I don't quite remember here), and all he experienced was to be the butt end of jokes. Really, Sueprsons did horrible things to his character. It cemented the idea that - just like Bruce nedds a Robin to not go insane, so too Damian needs Jon to not become some crazy maniac.
> 
> Meanwhile, TT took into account the events of No Justice where he saw a whole world dying because of his father and his team's action, he tried several ways to stop crime once and for all and kept failing. His methods may be distastful but his goals is clearly laudable and it's what I call character growth. Rejecting the flawxed creed of Bruce like he does that of Ra's is far better than to have him in need of a crutch to not go insane.


Well it's unfortunate that you got that out of Super Sons but I've always found that to be an extremely off base over simplification of what that series and his relationship with Jon did for him. Especially when it comes to Damian's treatment by Jon, as if that was a one sided thing (and as if it was more than back and forth playful teasing like a lot of the more overzealous fans think). Yes the series was meant to hype up the shiny new character. Yes, their adventures were more childish and lighthearted than Damian normally partakes in (though...I'm not sure what people expected from a series about Robin working with Superman's ten year old son). But, overall, I appreciated Damian being able to have such a close friendship with someone, the likes of which we hadn't seen since before Flashpoint. I liked that Damian had a friend that he was able to let his guard down with and occasionally just be a kid. I liked him being able to show more than one side of himself. It reminded me of the relationship that he used to have with Steph, and his one team-up with Supergirl.

Part of the tragedy that is Damian's character is how much he was forced to grow up in such a short amount of time. So it was always kinda heartwarming for me whenever he got to actually be a kid. I don't think it worked to his detriment. I think it gave him more layers as a character. That said, I do *NOT* subscribe to the idea that he needs Jon or that he'd go crazy without him. Nor do I think that was ever the purpose of their friendship. Jon isn't what put Damian in a good place in his life. That friendship happened because Damian was _already_ in a good place. So that is where I draw the line when it comes to those two. I think Jon was good for him but he does not *need* him.




> Super Sons was one of the best books to come out of DC Rebirth but Damian's writing in that book was too childish there and out of character only to make their friendship with Jon worked. Someone said it very well: Super sons presented a diluted version of Damian to please everyone even those who hated him. In Super Sons he and Jon had a fun dynamic but at the cost of making Damian less heroic and more childish. He became the grumpy bad cop to contrast with Jon's goodness. A dynamic that as a Damian fan, I hated.
> And honestly, I am certain that Super Sons was the only reason why his ongoing series was canceled.
> 
> Personally, this is how I think a friendship with Damian Wayne should be written while keeping his tough, arrogant and violent personality:


Disagree on the sons (obviously) but this just reminds me of how much I miss Colin and how great a character he could have been if he had gotten to stick around -___-




> What I mean is, there's a virtue in just having a fun series where Damian bonds with other kids his age and gets a bit of a reminder not to take life so seriously. If you didn't enjoy it that's valid, but it was also geared toward a younger demographic. You've got these great child characters, why not use them to tell coming of age/adventure stories too? If anything, I think it speaks to the versatility of the character.


This pretty much hits the nail right on the head.

----------


## Fergus

> I like those books even more now, considering they were the last time mainline Damian was actually likable.


What didn't you like about Damian in batman and Tec?

I don't get this obsession with making Damian likable in the conventional way. He is supposed to be an annoying posh git who thinks he is the shit and is.

Damian is an interesting and well crafted character who was created to be not so easy to like.
I enjoyed Supersons as did my kids but anyone who only likes Damian in Supersons isn't a Damian fan

----------


## Blue22

> I enjoyed Supersons as did my kids but *anyone who only likes Damian in Supersons isn't a Damian fan*


What kind of gatekeeping nonsense is that? How does one decide who's a fan of a character and who isn't?

That said, who here has actually said that they *only* like Damian in Super Sons?

----------


## Bikkun

> What didn't you like about Damian in batman and Tec?
> 
> I don't get this obsession with making Damian likable in the conventional way. He is supposed to be an annoying posh git who thinks he is the shit and is.
> 
> Damian is an interesting and well crafted character who was created to be not so easy to like.
> I enjoyed Supersons as did my kids but anyone who only likes Damian in Supersons isn't a Damian fan



Gatekeeping nonsense aside, you may be misunderstanding what he said- The last time he liked Damian was in Super Sons. Which is a fair notion because Damian's regression started after that book ended (Hi, Didio's return).

----------


## Restingvoice

I don't mind Damian's portrayal in Super Sons because like Superbat, that series is intended to be fun time, no canon required, whereas Teen Titans I hold to a higher standard and therefore causing greater annoyance, because it was meant to be his main canon story.

----------


## Rac7d*

Bruce coming to school Damian and his team now is ridiculous 
I am so sick of him

----------


## king81992

> Bruce coming to school Damian and his team now is ridiculous 
> I am so sick of him


Batman is in no position to school anybody, especially when you consider how he's treated his family, friends and coworkers over the years. Unfortunately, all of the characters who should be the ones to come in and school Damian and co, are either not being used or used poorly right now.

----------


## PowerPlay25

I really liked Damain's portrayal in Super Sons.  

For me a small character defining moment was when Bruce, Clark, Damian and Jon drove out to some fields.   Damian was counting down from 10 (Jon was about to take flight), Clark and Bruce were talking and Damian looks at them and says "Silence." LMAO.

Clark then turns to Bruce and says "Did he just tell you to........" and Bruce kind of shrugs. LOL.

The whole series was worth it for that interaction alone in my book.

----------


## Korath

> Bruce coming to school Damian and his team now is ridiculous 
> I am so sick of him


Hopefully Damian will tear him out about it. Batman is far from being in a position to tell his son what to do anymore.

----------


## Blue22

> Hopefully Damian will tear him out about it. Batman is far from being in a position to tell his son what to do anymore.


Oh hey. We finally agreed on something today lol

----------


## Grandmaster_J

Read the issue and I appreciate that KF was the only one that didn't hit Damian; which is funny after he solo them earlier but it shows that moral in KF that gets talked about a lot but rarely shown.

Anyway, I can't join in the outrage anymore as it gives me a headache. I feel terrible for all of these characters not just Damian and believe everyone of them deserve better writing and direction. Once Djinn left the only place I thought the book would go is up because I still believe she was the worst of the three newbies writing wise but no. 2 years is enough to be in a different place with all of them and I think if Glass' and co wanted to write his teen Suicide Squad then he should've done so with, Crush, Djinn, and RH as new characters with no ties to TT and left Damian, KF, and Arrow out.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I have a polemic opinion about Damian recent actions.

I don't think Damian killing again was a bad written regression. Since Damian got inside the new TT, the problems with Batman, Dick becoming Ric and Alfred death we can see he was getting lost slowly and killing again (that was what he made before Batfamily) make senses to me. In the movie he went back to LoA after Batman going way, Dick death and, it's not showed, but I think Alfred died too.
Damian has all reasons for believe that no killing method doesn't work and is full of pain and zero emotional support.
For me Damian is still weak for controlling himself, and how TT said, he does need help.

I believed Damian didn't kill at the previous comic, but in #44 I see how it was built and happened.

Damian killed Nobody for protect his family, and Batman told this is wrong, but now Damian lost 2 members of his family, Alfred was killed in front of him, and lost fathership, brothership and friendship of Dick was the worst for him.
Damian isn't Dick or Tim that would not kill independent of circumstances (probably?), and he is 13-14, still is going to make too many mistakes and this make him a good character.

I am sad because this make Damian having a break of comics more possible now than ever, but don't think there is not a logic of story or is OOC.

This shows how terrible father Bruce is too, he wasn't by Damian side even one time the bad things happened.

I just don't like to see Damian alone, staying in a group don't means not be alone, Dick is solo, but everybody likes him, he can trust them, he is always with a new girlfriend, Tim is liked by his friends, he is not constantly being criticized, even Jason is an important peace of Outlaws, definitely Artemis and Bizarro love him and want to be keep near, Jason knows it.

Damian became the ones felling being nobody for anyone and having nobody wanting he too.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

which comic is this? :



* edited: streets of gotham, >-<

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Read the issue and I appreciate that KF was the only one that didn't hit Damian; which is funny after he solo them earlier but it shows that moral in KF that gets talked about a lot but rarely shown.
> 
> Anyway, I can't join in the outrage anymore as it gives me a headache. I feel terrible for all of these characters not just Damian and believe everyone of them deserve better writing and direction. Once Djinn left the only place I thought the book would go is up because I still believe she was the worst of the three newbies writing wise but no. 2 years is enough to be in a different place with all of them and I think if Glass' and co wanted to write his teen Suicide Squad then he should've done so with, Crush, Djinn, and RH as new characters with no ties to TT and left Damian, KF, and Arrow out.


I actually didn't like KF in the first TT, because he was  indecisive, he just keep following the wave, and his powers didn't was too much helpfull but in the new TT I could see how much friend he is, I like this type of characters, he is my second favorite after Damian in the group know, He heart is in the right place for me and he don't want to resolve everything just with force. When he become more self-confident he will be a strong hero and still a good person <333 I don't follow many comics titles, but if he go for a new comic I will try to read.

#morehugsincomics! XD

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Hopefully Damian will tear him out about it. Batman is far from being in a position to tell his son what to do anymore.


hummmm, don't you think Damian wants this attention? Since he is stubborn and proud I also think he will deny Bruce words too, but I thinks all he wants now is support, more than make justice by killing, but also maybe is too late? I can't wait for read the next 3-5 chapters.

----------


## Morgoth

Regarding loneliness and absence of emotional support, yeah, Bruce is an asshole and Dick has to kick his ass, when he'll find out all of that. But this is also definitely Damian's fault. And probably that's the entire point of this shitty arc, he just completely missed Alfred's point, which he was trying to explain to him at the beginning of Rebirth. Damian has had two teams with bunch of people. Everyone left. He even had a girl, who had feelings for him, lol. He's lost all of it. In this situation, many are to blame, but seriously, the fact that most people simply could not stand him is Damian's fault, and not of anyone else. It is clear that he was raised not like Dick and Tim, but seriously, no one is obliged to close their eyes to how he behaves. 
Who can support him, when he pushes everyone away? Bruce, Dick and Alfred can't be around him forever, he has Jon and Maya, but they also just can't always stand by his side, holding his hand and pushing back his temper. Except people I mentioned, he treated everyone like shit, that's the fact. And maybe that's entire point of this story, that's the reason, why he failed, where Dick and Tim succeeded.

----------


## DurararaFTW

> This shows how terrible father Bruce is too, he wasn't by Damian side even one time the bad things happened.


I don't think that's fair. Bruce was with Dick when he was shot, Damian and Bruce were together when Ric woke up and revealed he didn't remember anything and when Bruce was showing Ric to the cave Damian was there and the dialogue tells us Bruce and Damian had talked about the plan to show Ric the cave before hand off screen. We haven't seen it, but is difficult to see how it would even be physically possible for Batman to have avoided dealing with Damian's reaction to the Dick shooting until now.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

* About being by Damian side, I talk in a way that is not just fisic. Like Bruce was with Damian in Alfred's funeral too but just made Damian feel more alone and guilt.

I don't fell that Bruce is by Damian side when Dick lost his memory, Bruce was there when he believed Dick was going to get normal, but not after his plain doesn't work. When Bruce need to deal with feelings he just disappears : /  hope problems to solve themselves, comeback when all blow up and try to resolve in his worst way possible < /3

Maybe because all the comic's universe works age is a strange way is hard to have a sense what is more or less normal, but "holding Damian's hand for ever" is not close of what I am saying.

"Comfort" is the word I was looking for, Batman can't say "I am here" "Things are going to be all right", "Sorry" "we are going to pass this together" "it's not your fault". 

*at least "I am here" would be nice... don't need the other prhases... touching his son's shoulder would be nice... don't being in silence when Damian said Alfred death was his fault would be nice...

I am not crazy, right? I am being pretty reasonable u-u/

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I don't think that's fair. Bruce was with Dick when he was shot, Damian and Bruce were together when Ric woke up and revealed he didn't remember anything and when Bruce was showing Ric to the cave Damian was there and the dialogue tells us Bruce and Damian had talked about the plan to show Ric the cave before hand off screen. We haven't seen it, but is difficult to see how it would even be physically possible for Batman to have avoided dealing with Damian's reaction to the Dick shooting until now.


"This shows how terrible father Bruce is too, he wasn't by Damian side even one time 'after' bad things 'that could not be fixed" happened."

I fixed it ('@w@)/

----------


## DurararaFTW

> * About being by Damian side, I talk in a way that is not just fisic. Like Bruce was with Damian in Alfred's funeral too but just made Damian feel more alone and guilt.
> 
> I don't fell that Bruce is by Damian side when Dick lost his memory, Bruce was there when he believed Dick was going to get normal, but not after his plain doesn't work. When Bruce need to deal with feelings he just disappears : /  hope problems to solve themselves, comeback when all blow up and try to resolve in his worst way possible < /3
> 
> Maybe because all the comic's universe works age is a strange way is hard to have a sense what is more or less normal, but "holding Damian's hand for ever" is not close of what I am saying.
> 
> "Comfort" is the word I was looking for, Batman can't say "I am here" "Things are going to be all right", "Sorry" "we are going to pass this together" "it's not your fault". 
> 
> *at least "I am here" would be nice... don't need the other prhases... touching his son's shoulder would be nice... don't being in silence when Damian said Alfred death was his fault would be nice...
> ...


I'm not saying Bruce definitely dealt with it as well as he can and should have, but dealing with the Ric situation is something Damian and Bruce did together, at least to a point.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I'm not saying Bruce definitely dealt with it as well as he can and should have, but dealing with the Ric situation is something Damian and Bruce did together, at least to a point.


hum... We are going to desagree about this because you count the hospital and batcave fact like being relevant, and for me it was almost nothing.
I am clearly several with Bruce as a father ('==)/

----------


## Denkota

Damian is a complicated character in that if he is portrayed as a carefree adventurer it is disliked by the fans who want him to be a cold hearted taskmaster like Bruce but push too far into the opposite direction and he will be demonized as a cold sociopathic killer who lacks empathy and has something like basic decency missing in his character due to being raised by assasins. It's a tough act to balance both these sides in a manner that it is balanced portrayal of the contrary sides of his personality to both factions satisfaction.

----------


## TheCape

The climax of this story sound less and less interesting as it goes on, wich is a pity, when Glass started his run i actually thougth that it was interesting, probably the best that the book has ever been since J.T Krul run right before the reboot. But since Terminus Agenda the quality dropped, now i'm just yawning througth most of these issues.

----------


## sifighter

Look I don’t care if it makes me look like I’m in denial I still don’t buy it. Now do I believe that Damian and Bruce will be on the out? Definitely, Bruce didn’t look happy about the villain jail and they’ve been having problems since No Justice and the Death of Alfred. But here is the thing I will always go back to and it’s no matter how many times he has said he’s killed, we haven’t seen it. 

You want me to believe Damian’s gone rogue you need to actually show me, not just have him say he did it. Even the aggressive tactic on KGBeast doesn’t sell it because he only cut off the only non-human flesh part of his body. It’s like a zombie movie, if I don’t see a dead body then the missing character could be alive, if I don’t see proof Damian actually killed anyone I’m going to assume it’s a bluff.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Look I don’t care if it makes me look like I’m in denial I still don’t buy it. Now do I believe that Damian and Bruce will be on the out? Definitely, Bruce didn’t look happy about the villain jail and they’ve been having problems since No Justice and the Death of Alfred. But here is the thing I will always go back to and it’s no matter how many times he has said he’s killed, we haven’t seen it. 
> 
> You want me to believe Damian’s gone rogue you need to actually show me, not just have him say he did it. Even the aggressive tactic on KGBeast doesn’t sell it because he only cut off the only non-human flesh part of his body. It’s like a zombie movie, if I don’t see a dead body then the missing character could be alive, if I don’t see proof Damian actually killed anyone I’m going to assume it’s a bluff.


This makes looks like you are in denial, but I read this and now I am agreeing with all you said. X'D

Yesss, it can be a realy well done bluff, I forgot the theory of Damian didn't kill blood brother but making looks like he did, I would love if Bruce says he discovered it instead of do what he did with Jason about Penguin...

I think considering all that happened to Damian since the new TT he killing again is logical,  but, now, he maybe didn't and would be the begin of things getting better again. Now I imagined so many happy possibilities.

My only problem is that comics many times just jump important scenes, like how the new TT coming together, sometimes there is no good explanations of past and mehh

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Look I don’t care if it makes me look like I’m in denial I still don’t buy it. Now do I believe that Damian and Bruce will be on the out? Definitely, Bruce didn’t look happy about the villain jail and they’ve been having problems since No Justice and the Death of Alfred. But here is the thing I will always go back to and it’s no matter how many times he has said he’s killed, we haven’t seen it. 
> 
> You want me to believe Damian’s gone rogue you need to actually show me, not just have him say he did it. Even the aggressive tactic on KGBeast doesn’t sell it because he only cut off the only non-human flesh part of his body. It’s like a zombie movie, if I don’t see a dead body then the missing character could be alive, if I don’t see proof Damian actually killed anyone I’m going to assume it’s a bluff.


I also start to be more suspicious after Nick didn't died in Avengers, the "I drunk a medicine that make me looks dead for 20 minutes with all hospital equipments not being able to detect" make me angry, and I like Nick, but this excuse is so annoying.
But in Damian's case would be a really good bluuf, would be like a zombie saying he ate someone, but after he revels he never was a zombie and didn't killed anyone. Look this plot twist!

----------


## Yennefer

> I don't think that's fair. Bruce was with Dick when he was shot, Damian and Bruce were together when Ric woke up and revealed he didn't remember anything and when Bruce was showing Ric to the cave Damian was there and the dialogue tells us Bruce and Damian had talked about the plan to show Ric the cave before hand off screen. We haven't seen it, but is difficult to see how it would even be physically possible for Batman to have avoided dealing with Damian's reaction to the Dick shooting until now.


Because it's Dick we are talking about.....

----------


## Yennefer

All of this is soooo frustrating.... Even if things go well and then DC reboots the universe... What's the point? And it is so tiring to wait a whole month to get 24 pages, with minor plot development and a "teasing" ending. This situation of everybody pointing out Damian's mistakes while forgetting his origin is completely Illogical. Also, I feel like they REALLY tried to give Tim the Robin mantle back which is infuriating. We are in a dead end as far as Damian is concerned. I can't wait to see what happens next.

----------


## Konja7

> All of this is soooo frustrating.... Even if things go well and then DC reboots the universe... What's the point? And it is so tiring to wait a whole month to get 24 pages, with minor plot development and a "teasing" ending. This situation of everybody pointing out Damian's mistakes while forgetting his origin is completely Illogical. Also, I feel like they REALLY tried to give Tim the Robin mantle back which is infuriating. We are in a dead end as far as Damian is concerned. I can't wait to see what happens next.


Honestly, I don't think Tim will recover the Robin mantle.

In Nightwing #73, it seems Tim is still using the Drake name while using the Robin suit.

I suspect Tim using the Robin suit in Joker War is mistake that they can't correct. Similar to Barbara using the Burnside Batgirl suit in Death Metal.

----------


## Wingin' It

I really have to agree, I don't seriously think Damian is going to give up being Robin permanently, and certainly not so that Tim can take the mantle back. I like Tim, but the time when he worked as Robin has passed, and Damian is a character that resonates with a lot of readers and there are writers at the company interested in telling stories with him. With Tim, it seems like you have just Bendis and Tynion keeping the character on life support. 

Reading Glass' Teen Titans, it really seems like he doesn't particularly care for Damian's character with how often he makes him look like an unrepentant, unlikeable asshole who is always in the wrong and doesn't have any points to make that could possibly convince the reader of his perspective. I feel as though the title has been spinning its wheels for a few chapters leading up to his inevitable confrontation with Batman.

Still not convinced Damian has killed either. Why have they been so wishy-washy about outright saying it? Why don't they just show us that he killed Brother Blood if he did so? It's not like they tried to hide Damian's kills in the past. Why did was it Brother Blood that made him snap, and not KGBeast who has been running around for like a year after shooting Nightwing? If he was going to go after the guy, why wasn't it sooner?

I should probably get off this tangent and just chalk it up to bad writing for my own sanity.

----------


## Morgoth

> Why don't they just show us that he killed Brother Blood if he did so?


I might be wrong, but if they don't show this scene (or at least the corpse) in the next issue, then it could mean that Thompson leaves the opportunity to undo the fact that Damian committed the murder. And this, in principle, makes sense, because Annual is the last comic with Damian in the TT, then Tomasi writes his storyline. Most likely, the final decision will be made by Bat-office, for this reason nothing is confirmed here for sure.

----------


## dietrich

> The climax of this story sound less and less interesting as it goes on, wich is a pity, when Glass started his run i actually thougth that it was interesting, probably the best that the book has ever been since J.T Krul run right before the reboot. But since Terminus Agenda the quality dropped, now i'm just yawning througth most of these issues.


I too liked this run much more at the start. To be honest I was enjoying it up to the part when they went to hell but then it fell apart.

I don't have an issue with Damian venturing down a dark path. Making mistakes and being challenged is a necessary for growth and can be interesting.

It just started to feel less believable and I found myself questioning the character's motivation. Damian's and the team's. Not to mention that the whole team is always so aggressive and bickering. They've never felt like a team.

It just got too much. so much negative energy.

----------


## dietrich

> Honestly, I don't think Tim will recover the Robin mantle.
> 
> In Nightwing #73, it seems Tim is still using the Drake name while using the Robin suit.
> 
> I suspect Tim using the Robin suit in Joker War is mistake that they can't correct. Similar to Barbara using the Burnside Batgirl suit in Death Metal.


I think Tynion really wants Tim to be Robin and with Synder's power backing him he is trying to make Tim Robin since he got the Batman gig.

However like the 3 Batgirl's thing we saw in Joker War and like the Jarro Robin thing in Synder's JL it's just going to be shared and not official.

If DC doesn't know what else to do with Tim then might as well have back as another Robin. Sure it doesn't fix the problem but it'll put a band aid on it and make some disgruntled fans happy. 

For a while at least.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Because it's Dick we are talking about.....


My heart... T^T

----------


## Konja7

> I think Tynion really wants Tim to be Robin and with Synder's power backing him he is trying to make Tim Robin since he got the Batman gig.
> 
> However like the 3 Batgirl's thing we saw in Joker War and like the Jarro Robin thing in Synder's JL it's just going to be shared and not official.
> 
> If DC doesn't know what else to do with Tim then might as well have back as another Robin. Sure it doesn't fix the problem but it'll put a band aid on it and make some disgruntled fans happy. 
> 
> For a while at least.


Maybe that's why Tim is called Drake even in the Robin suit. That way he could look like Robin without being called Robin (while Damian is the only one called as Robin).

In the 3 Batgirl's thing, it is possible they could be a Batgirls group, but only Barbara is Batgirl.

Although it also depends how much this situation will last. I suspect a general relaunch will happen soon.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

I'm also not sure Damian will lose the mantle of Robin forever. If we think about it, probably the reason why Damian was going to stop being Robin in the start was because of 5G, which makes sense, since we would have a new Batman. However, now this event will apparently not happen, but they can't just erase the storyline; they must go all the way and finish it. I am not sure where Damian would be during 5G, which would last five years, but I always got the impression that he would get out of the spotlight for a while and come back after this was over in 2026, when Doomsday Clock teased the "it is june 17th 2026, Superman goes on a quest to find Bruce Wayne's lost daughter... so she can save Bruce's son", which to me is obviously about Damian. But if the 5G won't happen, will this? So now I am wondering if these events teased in the future will still happen, even if earlier.

Now going to November's solicitacions Detective Comics #1031, it says "It may have something to do with the Black Casebook that Bruce liberated from The Joker’s territory in the monumental Detective Comics #1027...but how far will Damian go to avenge this grudge from his father’s past?", which to me souns very... interesting, I guess. We don't know what this Black Casebook is yet, but it seems important. What if has something to do with those things teased in Doomsday Clock?

Anyway, I just threw in a lot of weird theories, but my point is: we need to be patient, because I think something big is about to happen and Damian might be involved somehow. Perhaps we will only know if this is true or not when 2021's solicitations start to come out, but, at least for me, there's something in the air! (i might be totally wrong though lol)

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I still want to know about baby Hittler thing.

And don't want Damian to go way. I can deal with 3 months, but I stopped readind DC comics first time Damian died, I like other characters, but read without Damian isn't a option for me 
u'_'u)/

----------


## delaviux

Tim is becoming robin in the preview of Batman 99.
I don't know what ''big plans'' Tynion was talking about for Damian, but so far I'm not impressed.
Big plans for me mean an solo ongoing where he can have his own adventures without interference from Bruce, the Titans or Jon.

----------


## Konja7

> Tim is becoming robin in the preview of Batman 99.
> I don't know what ''big plans'' Tynion was talking about for Damian, but so far I'm not impressed.
> Big plans for me mean an solo ongoing where he can have his own adventures without interference from Bruce, the Titans or Jon.


Tim uses the Robin suit in Nightwing #73, but he seems to still be called Drake. It is weird. 

I suspect Damian will still be the only Robin.

----------


## Light of Justice

Preview TT Annual #2

----------


## Light of Justice

So... I guess restaurant scene is forgotten now? Since they already set to make Alfred's death as the reason for Damian's changing

----------


## Eckri

Oh man, I can already picture Tim's reaction, it'll be Pre-new 52 levels of spite between him and Damian.
Don't think Damian will appear again after Detective Comics 1030 and 1031, He's going to get shelf for a while. 
Best case they'll do a whole reset arc where's he's back at the manor being robin, mild case scenario he's not robin but still appears in issues, and worse case he's going to be shelf for a long time.

----------


## Restingvoice

I see. Joker War doesn't include Damian in Batman #99 but include Tim wearing the Robin suit but calling himself Drake in Nightwing because the story about Damian quitting Robin and how it transition to Tim isn't published yet. 

It looks like the reading order will go from Teen Titans to Young Justice to Joker War

----------


## Blue22

> https://i2.wp.com/aiptcomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/teen-titans-annual_23.jpg?resize=768%2C1181&ssl=1
> https://i2.wp.com/aiptcomics.com/wp-...8%2C1181&ssl=1
> 
> So... I guess restaurant scene is forgotten now? Since they already set to make Alfred's death as the reason for Damian's changing


Man this run has been one hell of a rollercoaster. I've gone from hating it before it even started, to hating it after it started, to slowly warming up to it, to actually kinda liking it, and now I hate it again and wish it never happened. Even if we did get some good characters like Djinn out of it and Wallace became significantly less annoying than he was in the other run. I might hate this more than what's happening with Jon right now.

Just....please let Tomasi save this boy. He doesn't have to go back to Bruce. Hell, he doesn't even necessarily need to go back to being Robin right away. Just...get him and the Teen Titans out of this nightmare that reeks of Didio's edgelord mandates.

----------


## Korath

> So... I guess restaurant scene is forgotten now? Since they already set to make Alfred's death as the reason for Damian's changing


Herm, Batman. You hold criminal against their will all the time... and it's also what prisons are for, by the way. It's more the lack of due process you should highlight, and you're terribly misplaced to judge him on that... And the mind-wiping. Well, you are against it, but it had results, far better than your methods...

----------


## Blue22

Yeah Bruce doesn't really have a leg to stand on here, unless he's just doing this because he knows what he does is bad and doesn't want his son to go down the same road. In which case...lead by example, bitch.

----------


## Korath

> Yeah Bruce doesn't really have a leg to stand on here, unless he's just doing this because he knows what he does is bad and doesn't want his son to go down the same road. In which case...lead by example, bitch.


Pretty sure we are supposed to forget that it's something he does...

----------


## Astralabius

> Pretty sure we are supposed to forget that it's something he does...


It's what DC does. Making Batman look better than he actually is by shitting on everyone else and ignoring what he has done.

They are trying to use Bruce as the morally correct good guy here, ignoring that he doesn't fit that role while Damian is supposed to be wrong and morally corrupt.
I was pretty annoyed when I saw the page in issue 43 where Damian claimed Bruce didn't go far enough when he only broke KGBeast back (according to the editor's note in Batman 85). That's not what happened, Bruce broke KGBeast's neck and left him lying there in the snow "to get his own damn help" in 57. But I guess that didn't fit the point Damian was trying to make in Teen Titans.

----------


## DurararaFTW

> Herm, Batman. You hold criminal against their will all the time... and it's also what prisons are for, by the way. It's more the lack of due process you should highlight, and you're terribly misplaced to judge him on that... And the mind-wiping. Well, you are against it, but it had results, far better than your methods...


Gotham's legal system holds them long term, Batman just delivers them to the Gotham PD.

----------


## Astralabius

> Gotham's legal system holds them long term, Batman just delivers them to the Gotham PD.


Bruce had his own cells in the past too. Just like Damian he even had a secret prison under the hall of justice for the batman who laughs without telling the Justice League pretty recently. In Tynion's Batman run he helped the police in constructing a prison that was supposed to be impossible to escape (which of course didn't work).
But in a way Bruce doesn't even need a prison that is officially his own. If he wants to beat a prisoner until they give him the information he wants he just needs to stroll into Arkham and in a lot of cases they just let him.

----------


## Korath

> Bruce had his own cells in the past too. Just like Damian he even had a secret prison under the hall of justice for the batman who laughs without telling the Justice League pretty recently. In Tynion's Batman run he helped the police in constructing a prison that was supposed to be impossible to escape (which of course didn't work).
> But in a way Bruce doesn't even need a prison that is officially his own. If he wants to beat a prisoner until they give him the information he wants he just needs to stroll into Arkham and in a lot of cases they just let him.


He also held Joker in prison underneath the Batcave before Metal without telling anyone.

----------


## dietrich

> He also held Joker in prison underneath the Batcave before Metal without telling anyone.


Bruce's illegal Jail's go back to before flashpoint. He's always had them and in Rebirth he bragged that he has 2.

One in  the Bar cave and the other under the Hall of Justice

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Sorry for interruption, do you guys know where can I watch Teen Titans Go last season?
My country still doesn't has this in Cartoon Network, ToonCast or netflix, so, this need to be a (sshhhh) parallel site.
* I am still kind obsessed with Damian showing up any moment in at least one episode.

----------


## delaviux

Tim Drake is the Robin of Gotham Knights. lol
I am more and more convinced that in the ''New DC'' there is no place for Damian.
I predict that even though he will not die or disappear, his presence will be minimized, I mean the comics. 
In other media such as games or movies, he will not even exist.
Sorry to show negativity, but I had to say it.

----------


## Morgoth

There will be DLC, and unlockable characters, probably. He needs a proper introduction anyway. 
And Damian was absent in Arkhamverse as well. Stop panicking, seriously, no one will get rid of him in comics.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Agree, because Damian will become FLAME BIRRRRRDDDDD!
You're welcome for me show positivity.

Speaking serious, even peoples here believe Damian will not has less importance because he is popular, if DC decides to give importance for another character automatically they need to take of another. For me Dick is still the more loved Robin, but he almost don't show up in the movies, also Red Hood and Tim, since Damian has protagonized 4 movies of new 52 fase, it's normal give this the spotlights for another character.
Sadly a game/movie take more than 1 year, some times 3 years for be done.

For me there is MANY comics that I think, a movie based in this you be GREAT, but if you though this about 2 arcs in 3 years, it's mean is "impossible" have both.
The only way Damian being so present in the last decade is because of this logic. For me there is also a hole so big for not existing a movie with Bruce "dead" and Dick as Batman and Damian as his Robin, DC makes a decision of making another thing even with all Damian's popularity.

So, since comics should be more or less the "base", investing time/money in another character in one of them kind make you mirror this in another midias.
Damian will not appears in the interactive animation too... they are investing in Jason and Tim in this one...
The best currentely exemple for this is Harley, she got 1 animation movie with Batman, 1 TV show, 1 movie as one of protagonist, 1 movie as protagonist, appearances in DC super Hero girls 2019, appearances in final DC animation movie. Should not Barbara as Batgirl have more importance following a normal logic? Barbara has ever protagonized something beside her comic before DC Super Hero Girls 2019? (I think).

My last consideration is: the kids focus midia, it's is a broke rule for all I said, generally this is a independent thing (?, so you can have Cyborg in TT GO ignoring the new DC fase, All DC Super Hero Girls with same age (and older the all TT), Lil' Gotham, Batman Lego..... (Love them so much).

I STILL believe if Damian became Flame Bird ALL problems would be resolved because he would keep in Batfamily, keep near of Dick, more far way from Bruce, giving Robin title for Tim (DC wants this so, ok), not having a new TT, don't needing to go way... Same thing doing a group with Jon, Maya and the blond girl I never remember the name... will this happen? no.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> So... I guess restaurant scene is forgotten now? Since they already set to make Alfred's death as the reason for Damian's changing


Hummm, do you believed Damian has killed the restaurant guy? I think it maybe was a point of Damian deciding doing the prison, but not killing. Dick and Alfred was much more a good reason for he killing again after the prison didn't work. Also, all the other points, didn't look like Damian was ever planned kill in City of Bane for example. I think there are many drops for Damian changes and the restaurant was the smallest of the smallest drop.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Do you guys remember when Bruce and Damian had conversations in new 52 and some times Bruce admited his mistakes and Damian was capable of demonstre he always want to be like Bruce and they smiled for each other sometimes too? Good times.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

poor Damian

----------


## Yennefer

I just saw the DC FanDome Teaser for The Batman and it was absolutely awesome!!! I hope the movie will be as good as the teaser is! Tbh, I didn't expect that....!!

----------


## Digifiend

> Honestly, I don't think Tim will recover the Robin mantle.
> 
> In Nightwing #73, it seems Tim is still using the Drake name while using the Robin suit.
> 
> I suspect Tim using the Robin suit in Joker War is mistake that they can't correct. Similar to Barbara using the Burnside Batgirl suit in Death Metal.


Tim will be Robin again by Young Justice #19 - he's in his Robin suit on the variant of that issue (he isn't on the main cover at all, it's a Wonder Girl solo cover) and both covers of #20. 



> Agree, because Damian will become FLAME BIRRRRRDDDDD!
> You're welcome for me show positivity.
> 
> I STILL believe if Damian became Flame Bird ALL problems would be resolved because he would keep in Batfamily, keep near of Dick, more far way from Bruce, giving Robin title for Tim (DC wants this so, ok), not having a new TT, don't needing to go way... Same thing doing a group with Jon, Maya and the blond girl I never remember the name... will this happen? no.


Flamebird would make sense as a new name if he became Dick's sidekick again. Nightwing and Flamebird were partners in the Kryptonian mythology that Dick took the Nightwing name from.

The blonde girl whose name you couldn't remember is Kathy, aka Beacon.

*Robin No More: Can Damian Wayne Ever Be Batman's Partner Again?*
_Robin's recent actions might mean he won't be Batman's partner for much longer. The question is, what happens then?_
https://www.cbr.com/robin-no-more-da...atman-partner/

----------


## Restingvoice

Flamebird Damian is the best idea because then we can throw him to Dick and if we can't have a Batman and Robin Reborn teamup then let it be a Nightwing and Flamebird of Bludhaven

----------


## Eckri

What comic title and issue? I didn't know that Damian underwent another alias of Flame Bird? Curious to read what he does in that storyline.

I posted this earlier, suggesting another alias for Damian, but I'd like if Damian took the alias Rokh (or Roc), similar with Dick which got his from Kryptonian myths but Damian got his from Arabian mythology. Parallels but not the same.
Heck, Dick could even banter with him calling him Rookie.

----------


## Restingvoice

> What comic title and issue? I didn't know that Damian underwent another alias of Flame Bird? Curious to read what he does in that storyline.
> 
> I posted this earlier, suggesting another alias for Damian, but I'd like if Damian took the alias Rokh (or Roc), similar with Dick which got his from Kryptonian myths but Damian got his from Arabian mythology. Parallels but not the same.
> Heck, Dick could even banter with him calling him Rookie.


Oh no, we're just throwing ideas

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Oh no, we're just throwing ideas


We are just dreaming a little :''')

Hummmm, DC probably will "never" do a Son of Batman Arabic Hero, they badly can keep his skin tone darker :/

This is like me thinking about Jon and Damian becoming a couple. 
Disney taked 71 years for draw a black princess, so we can have DamiJon kisses and Rokh, but not in 1 or 2 or 3 decades...?

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Will happens... eventuality.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Herm, Batman. You hold criminal against their will all the time... and it's also what prisons are for, by the way.


100% agree with this. What kind of prison which hold criminal under their will, are they ask first "hey criminal, please let us jail you. Your willingness is utmost appreciated"? There's no use for prison guards, then. Seriously, criminals on DC comics are so spoiled.

What I don't like the most with this run is they really victimized villains too much. Like, hello, they're criminals? They hurt innocent people, they kill innocent people. Am I supposed to sympathize for them because they're imprisoned and brainswashed, even though that makes them stopping their criminals acts? Am I supposed to feel for them more than I feel for Damian? Am I supposed to rooted for them, more than Damian? 

I know that Damian's acts are lawfully wrong, but I don't think those villains have any right to protest for that. If there's someone who deserve to protest to Damian, it has to be law enforcement officers (and no, that's not included you, Bruce..)

----------


## Light of Justice

> Hummm, do you believed Damian has killed the restaurant guy? I think it maybe was a point of Damian deciding doing the prison, but not killing. Dick and Alfred was much more a good reason for he killing again after the prison didn't work. Also, all the other points, didn't look like Damian was ever planned kill in City of Bane for example. I think there are many drops for Damian changes and the restaurant was the smallest of the smallest drop.


The problem is it explicitly shows that restaurant scene is some kind of trigger for Damian to make his own TT, which is the start of everything. And Dick's shooting and Alfred's death's impact to Damian are not mentioned on TT until Thompson takes over, which is of course already too late.

----------


## Light of Justice

Preview Batman Beyond #46

----------


## Light of Justice

Have to say, I really miss this kind of 'Grayson let me drive the Batmobile' banter. Remind me of DickBats era, whom I love so much. And Goliath is just so precious and so loyal to his master. Tomasi whatever you will do to Damian on Tec, please at least let him has Goliath on his side.

PS: I really wonder, on this future era, who's taller between Damian and Dick? We know that Damian already outgrow Bruce on previous issue.

----------


## Light of Justice

https://www.cbr.com/robin-no-more-da...atman-partner/

this new CBR article predicting Damian's future is rather amusing, there's some interesting points.

However, Damian has become an increasingly dark figure. His brief visit to the future with Superboy suggested some dark fate is waiting for him, with Chameleon Boy even flippantly comparing him to Hitler.

His closest confidant in the Bat-Family, Nightwing, was left amnesiac after being shot in the head by KGBeast. Damian's attempt to confront the villains ruling over Gotham during "City of Bane" resulted in the death of Alfred Pennyworth. His time leading the Teen Titans has been fraught with conflict and inner turmoil, especially after his plan to imprison villains and alter their minds to make them less dangerous members of society failed.

Huh, okay. Guess now they really treat Alfred's death as his fault. Disappointed but not surprised.

Where could Damian go if he left his father's side? He could easily return to his mother's employ and join the League of Assassins, accepting the legacy of his grandfather. This could position Damian as one of the most personal antagonists Batman has ever confronted.
Hope they will not take this route. But DC is obsessed with Batman angst, so I can't hope too much. If they really want it that way, they need massive age-up because I don't see how Batman fight and beat up short-stack 14 years old kid make him heroic. No matter how murderous the said kid. They need to make him at least as crazy as Robin King to justify that.

Alternately, Damian may try to remain a more heroic figure than Talia, one who's willing to try and use lethal methods but is defined by their attempts to still do good in some form. This could result in Damian teaming up with someone like Jason Todd, aka the Red Hood -- another estranged member of the Bat-Family whose willingness to use brutal tactics separates him from the rest. Damian has worked with another former Robin before, so seeing him team up with Jason Todd could make for an interesting partnership.
Not really think it will happen. DC kinda wants to reconcile Jason with Bruce now, with 3 Joker event and current all Joker events, so Damian's latching to Jason will be liability for that plan. And sorry for you all who want him to be Flamebird Dick's sidekick or any former Robin sidekick and all that, I think it's not a good idea to stick him on any former Robins. They will be roped into his conflict with Bruce, and they have enough mess on their own. 

Damian could even find a way to connect with Mark Shaw, the former Manhunter and current wielder of the name Leviathan. His organization is dedicated to "saving the world" through methods other heroes would never consider. Damian could potentially see a new peer in Leviathan and even take up the name "Manhunter."
This is interesting theory, especially that Heretic as maybe the most successful subject of Leviathan project is probably still alive. But I don't want Damian's next journey will be written by Bendis of all people.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Look I dont care if it makes me look like Im in denial I still dont buy it. Now do I believe that Damian and Bruce will be on the out? Definitely, Bruce didnt look happy about the villain jail and theyve been having problems since No Justice and the Death of Alfred. But here is the thing I will always go back to and its no matter how many times he has said hes killed, we havent seen it. 
> 
> You want me to believe Damians gone rogue you need to actually show me, not just have him say he did it. Even the aggressive tactic on KGBeast doesnt sell it because he only cut off the only non-human flesh part of his body. Its like a zombie movie, if I dont see a dead body then the missing character could be alive, if I dont see proof Damian actually killed anyone Im going to assume its a bluff.


It's not a bluff. There's an exchange between Glass and a fan that was posted on this very thread not long after the Robin 80th where Glass stated that it was already decided that Damian should lose the Robin mantle and that was his directive when he got the title.

He basically stated that a character like Robin it's not down to the writer and the decision had already been made and not by him.

So the TT stroyline isn't a bluff.

Not sure why they have to throw his character under the bus for him to give up Robin. Though I guess this isn't the 1st time DC has forced a heel turn to justify a change.

----------


## Morgoth

Well, Glass then said that this is the standard scheme "one step back - two steps forward", which implies, that Damian will get redemption and reconciliation. The question is when.

----------


## CPSparkles

Since the focus is on GH, YA and digital titles I'd rather just get an expanded Earth 2 with the Supersons by Taylor. 
Damian 2 biggest titles [numbers sold] featured him not as Robin. 

I don't think it works having Damian be 13 and anything other than Robin so why not have him older that way he graduates.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Well, Glass then said that this is the standard scheme "one step back - two steps forward", which implies, that Damian will get redemption and reconciliation. The question is when.


Did he? Honestly I'd rather just get stories like Injustice 2, DCeased and BB. Those are what I've enjoyed the most.
Or the OG Supersons

----------


## Morgoth

Tomasi probably will give him another alias.
In fact, TTs are completely irrelevant now. The most important events will take place at 'Tec. Again, I wouldn't be surprised if Tomasi just closes this storyline and gives him a new alias, since lots of things changed in DC in last couple of months. I thought that he even will gey Robin mantle back, but it seems to me that Tynion still wants Tim to be Robin, plus the game is ahead (though Damian may appear there too, but still).

----------


## Morgoth

> Did he?


Yes. Fans began to complain to him that Damian's character was being destroyed, making him a villain, etc. And he almost directly stated that fans are overreacting, that this is part of the development, and he even said that even with all this, Damian will be a great Batman in the future, this is a direct quote. So, I assume their entire point just to get Robin mantle off from Damian.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> The problem is it explicitly shows that restaurant scene is some kind of trigger for Damian to make his own TT, which is the start of everything. And Dick's shooting and Alfred's death's impact to Damian are not mentioned on TT until Thompson takes over, which is of course already too late.


I got your point, but the story would be kind forced if all time a character has a trigger this is so explicit, so for me is pretty clearly the restaurant idea was the trigger for the prison, but if Damian said "this make me want to kill again" every time he has a trigger the surprise element would be lost.
And about don't metioned the Alfred and Dick in TT, this is just a way to buy another comics, and I think would be repetitive talk about this in bove, since there is 24 pages for week.

----------


## Korath

Honestly, it's time for Damian to grow. I went from somewhere around 1m50 to 1m77 in a few months when I was his age. It was a little awkard at first, but I took it in stride, and so should he. And again, he should certainly not reconcile with Bruce as if nothing has happened, so no return to the Robin mantle. There is so many better names out there for him. I won't write some I can think off so no writer will be afraid to uses them, but come on! Damian can do better than to remain Bruce's little pet.

----------


## Morgoth

They should finally give him an ongoing. I really hope, that it will happen after relaunch.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> They should finally give him an ongoing. I really hope, that it will happen after relaunch.


Isn't he still too young for an independent path? (:/) Dick went away with 18, Tim didn't break bonds with Bruce and Jason was a sad exception. After all that happened I don't think this would be the best choice for keep Damian on a good side.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

oh, yeah X''''D each tear is a tear.

----------


## Astralabius

> Yes. Fans began to complain to him that Damian's character was being destroyed, making him a villain, etc. And he almost directly stated that fans are overreacting, that this is part of the development, and he even said that even with all this, Damian will be a great Batman in the future, this is a direct quote. So, I assume their entire point just to get Robin mantle off from Damian.


I wouldn't give too much on Glass' words regarding his plans for Damian's future. He's not working for DC anymore and plans changed after he left. They decided to make Damian a killer again when he was already gone. You can see that if you look at the solicitation for Teen Titans 42. Damian was supposed to be gone after the Djinn War and the annual and Thompson would have continued with the rest of the team from there. Obviously the solicitation for Teen Titans 43 already told another story. I don't think they really involved Glass in those plan changes.

----------


## Astralabius

> Honestly, it's time for Damian to grow. I went from somewhere around 1m50 to 1m77 in a few months when I was his age. It was a little awkard at first, but I took it in stride, and so should he. And again, he should certainly not reconcile with Bruce as if nothing has happened, so no return to the Robin mantle. There is so many better names out there for him. I won't write some I can think off so no writer will be afraid to uses them, but come on! Damian can do better than to remain Bruce's little pet.


He's only 13. I sometimes feel like some of you don't really get how young that is. If anything Teen Titans has shown that Damian isn't ready to be on his own.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Honestly, it's time for Damian to grow. I went from somewhere around 1m50 to 1m77 in a few months when I was his age. It was a little awkward at first, but I took it in stride, and so should he.


but... the Batfam stairs...

----------


## Jackalope89

> but... the Batfam stairs...


Jason is already taller (and heavier) than Dick is. So, Batfam stair ruined. lol

----------


## Restingvoice

> Jason is already taller (and heavier) than Dick is. So, Batfam stair ruined. lol


He's still drawn shorter most of the time XD

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Damian has more personality being small... I still miss him with 10, don't want to see him tall so soon... I do like "babybat"...

For me Robin's body are:
Dick - SUPER sexy
Jason - tall + muscles <333
Tim - thin with narrow shoulder
Damian - small (*3*)/// 

He is just cute/ adorable, his appearance is part of he being funny in opposition to his scaaaaaryyy aggressive words. Also make him looks more skillfull since his size should be a disadvantage and remember us he is a young boy who still needs protection.

so cute....

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> He's still drawn shorter most of the time XD


I think he is more drawing as taller than Dick.

----------


## adrikito

> Have to say, I really miss this kind of 'Grayson let me drive the Batmobile' banter. Remind me of DickBats era, whom I love so much. And Goliath is just so precious and so loyal to his master. Tomasi whatever you will do to Damian on Tec, please at least let him has Goliath on his side.
> 
> PS: I really wonder, on this future era, who's taller between Damian and Dick? We know that Damian already outgrow Bruce on previous issue.


Thanks for the preview and.. I am agree with you in that..




> https://www.cbr.com/robin-no-more-da...atman-partner/
> 
> this new CBR article predicting Damian's future is rather amusing, there's some interesting points.
> 
> This is interesting theory, especially that Heretic as maybe the most successful subject of Leviathan project is probably still alive. But I don't want Damian's next journey will be written by Bendis of all people.


How sad is his fate.. As if it was not enough sad see *DC teasing Tim as Robin*  :Mad:  again

https://insidepulse.com/2020/08/21/d...sans-spoilers/

Anyway. I will try to follow his next few appearances in future comics and in Batman Beyond.. If DC starts something like Supersons again with him I will not follow it. I still hate that comic.  :Mad:

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Let me ask, did Bruce's father ever hit him? This would explain a couple of things.

----------


## sifighter

> Let me ask, did Bruce's father ever hit him? This would explain a couple of things.


.......Does Flashpoint Batman count?

----------


## Jackalope89

> Let me ask, did Bruce's father ever hit him? This would explain a couple of things.


Only when he came back as Flashpoint Bats. Otherwise, there's really nothing to suggest Thomas hit Bruce.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Let me ask, did Bruce's father ever hit him? This would explain a couple of things.


He was a 20s kid. What do you think?

----------


## OpaqueGiraffe17

> Let me ask, did Bruce's father ever hit him? This would explain a couple of things.


Ah the cycle of abuse, lol

B3911023-EA31-4F73-ADA9-19F076C6BAA3.jpg
B694C9C6-DC8C-4C77-B474-1B614A2F0AE6.jpg

----------


## adrikito

> Ah the cycle of abuse, lol
> 
> B3911023-EA31-4F73-ADA9-19F076C6BAA3.jpg
> B694C9C6-DC8C-4C77-B474-1B614A2F0AE6.jpg


Alfred made this in 2 different universes? Good work..

I remember the 2nd one(batman earth one) but.. When happened the first image? During King run?

----------


## Restingvoice

> Alfred made this in 2 different universes? Good work..
> 
> I remember the 2nd one(batman earth one) but.. When happened the first image? During King run?


Snyder. Zero Year.

----------


## adrikito

> Snyder. Zero Year.


Thanks. Batman deserved it many times.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> .......Does Flashpoint Batman count?


I don't count... this Thomas became completely crazy.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I thought this, but also tought if wasn't Bruce one of this too rich too spoiled kid that never listened a "no", I think year 1 Bruce was like this.

About this:
"He was a 20s kid. What do you think?"

----------


## adrikito

> I don't count... this Thomas became completely crazy.


Is the BAT madness all those who became in Batman experience it..

Maybe Minus Grayson.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Is the BAT madness all those who became in Batman experience it..
> 
> Maybe Minus Grayson.


But flashpoint Batman is another level of craziness.
My Batman craziness level is:

5 Tim
4 Dick
3 Bruce
3 Damian
2 Jason
1 Thomas

I just saw Terry in tv show, so don't know where would be his position.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I have one more question for older readers:
Did Batman really made crime decrease just for being scary? Because reading now I am pretty sure this tecnic isn't work.

----------


## Denkota

Lol look at how he handled reconciling with Cass in her series. He would probably beat Damian black and blue as a bonding process.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Restingvoice

> I have one more question for older readers:
> Did Batman really made crime decrease just for being scary? Because reading now I am pretty sure this tecnic isn't work.


It works on the goons and thugs and the low ranking mobs, because most of them never even saw him, just saw his shadow and got captured or thrown off a building then dangled on a rope. It didn't work on the Arkham inmates and the smarter mob bosses. 

The whole criminals are a superstitious and cowardly lot is based on the regular back alley robbers, like Joe Chill, not the educated or insane

----------


## Morgoth

It was really emotional issue. Maybe the best issue in entire run. 
What happens next it's up to Tomasi and Bat-office now. But I still think, that they will at least reconcile them at the end, judging by Batman attitude in this issue. But he won't be a Robin, I think.

----------


## Astralabius

I hate this run and this direction, so it's not a suprise that I hate this annual too. It's just more of the same crap they have been serving us for months. No twist, just everything most fans seemed to hate yet again.

----------


## DragonPiece

> It was really emotional issue. Maybe the best issue in entire run. 
> What happens next it's up to Tomasi and Bat-office now. But I still think, that they will at least reconcile them at the end, judging by Batman attitude in this issue. But he won't be a Robin, I think.


Honestly, he's had the robin moniker for years now. I'm fine with him getting a new name. With Tomasi writing him next, I doubt any tension will really last for long.

----------


## Morgoth

> Honestly, he's had the robin moniker for years now. I'm fine with him getting a new name. With Tomasi writing him next, I doubt any tension will really last for long.


It just seemed to me that Thompson did everything here so that Damian had the opportunity to return to Batfamily (no Titans, he's done with them, probably) without any problems, in the sense that Bruce did not reject him, but, on the contrary, was devastated, admitted that he let him down and asked him to return. And the emphasis is made on the fact that the cause of Damian's breakdown is the death of Alfred and Dick's amnesia, at least one of this will soon be fixed. And Alfred will return, we all know that this will happen. And Tynion said, that their goal to reunite Batfamily. 
I wouldn't be surprised if the main reason why they still went this way here is rather a desire to make Tim Robin again, and give Damian a new alias.

----------


## Eckri

> Honestly, he's had the robin moniker for years now. I'm fine with him getting a new name. With Tomasi writing him next, I doubt any tension will really last for long.


I agree with him getting a new alias, and tensions between him and Bruce won't be permanent. 
Though him getting a new name while still working with Bruce just after losing the Robin title. 
I think Tomasi could maybe write off Damian having enough of having the legacy of the Batman and League of Assassins down his throat, and just do his own thing with a new alias symbolizing he's going to choose his own way from now on.
That way Tim Drake could be the de facto Robin, while they could use Damian's new alias whenever some story plotline needs a side character.

----------


## Katana500

A new Alias is the future! I fundamentally believe Damian is popular enough to end up with his own identity as popular as Nightwing or Red Hood.  All it needs is a good writer behind it and a good design!

----------


## the1&onlyE.

Listen, I hate this run just like everybody, but I actually kind of liked this annual. I feel it could have been so much worse than this, and I am happy that Bruce didn't act like a complete asshole. This is what I wanted, I wanted him to realize that Damian needs help, not to treat him like a unforgivable villain. I don't know what comes next now, but I am glad Tomasi is the one who will write it.

----------


## scary harpy

This sounds promising.

But, I have been promised new aliases before...and been very disappointed.

Also, a new alias would suggest a new costume...I've been very, very disappointed by new costumes.

----------


## Konja7

Honestly, if Damian stop to be Robin, I suspect DC will still want to mantain his connection to Batman. So, I wouldn't be surprised by Batboy or Batkid as his new alias. 

I really doubt DC want Damian to be independent from Bruce. I suspect they will send him to the limbo before that. 





> This sounds promising.
> 
> But, I have been promised new aliases before...and been very disappointed.
> 
> Also, a new alias would suggest a new costume...I've been very, very disappointed by new costumes.


Well, Tim is under Drake alias in the Robin suit.

So, it seems even a new alias doesn't mean a new costume.

----------


## Eckri

If Damian would ever get a new alias, just a possibility not saying it might happen.
What do you guys think his color schemes for his costume should be.
Dick has the blue and black.
Jason has the red and black.
Tim has the red and green.
Damian? I think his color schemes should be like his outfit in the battle of cowl, white and black? thoughts?

----------


## Restingvoice

> Honestly, if Damian stop to be Robin, I suspect DC will still want to mantain his connection to Batman. So, I wouldn't be surprised by Batboy or Batkid as his new alias. 
> 
> I really doubt DC want Damian to be independent from Bruce. I suspect they will send him to the limbo before that. 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, Tim is under Drake alias in the Robin suit.
> 
> So, it seems even a new alias doesn't mean a new costume.


See I wanna say Batboy and Batkid sound bad and they'd never go with that but they gave Drake Drake

----------


## Korath

Bloodbat for Damian please. It ticks all the cool boxes : you know is dangerous (cause bloodbat*h*), that he is related to the bat by blood and that legacy and heritage are very important to the character.

Come on DC, I didn't want to spell it, but if you really can't be bothered to find a cool nickname for Damian in all the languages he speaks (Arabic, English, probably ancient and modern Greek, Turkic, French, German, Spanish, Portuguese, probably Chinese and Japanese) go for something like Bloodbat, not Batkid or Batboy. 

Damian is supposed to be surprisingly threatening and dangerous for a small package (if you don't allow him o grow like he should, reaching 14 years old soon I guess), not just ridiculous.

----------


## Morgoth

> I really doubt DC want Damian to be independent from Bruce. I suspect they will send him to the limbo before that.


Tynion said months ago, that Damian is a big part of his 2021 Batfamily plans, so, there will be no limbo. 
Actually, it will be funny, if they will make him a Robin again, like nothing happened. I just remember Doom War, Damian was still Robin there, and that was presumably in the future.
But if there will be new a alias, probably Tomasi will introduce it at the end of his 'Tec storyline.

----------


## Yennefer

This issue was great. Damian was on fire!!! 
I hope he'll get a new alias... I always imagined him intimidating like Death. Black costume with little golden (or silver... Okay) details like his Ra's Al ghul costume....Dark and broody like the bat, but dangerous like Ra's..
I imagine him as an antihero that watches but rarely intervenes, however when he does, hell breaks over... But that requires an age-up.... Oh and a biblical name must be included as well.

----------


## Astralabius

> Tynion said months ago, that Damian is a big part of his 2021 Batfamily plans, so, there will be no limbo. 
> Actually, it will be funny, if they will make him a Robin again, like nothing happened. I just remember Doom War, Damian was still Robin there, and that was presumably in the future.
> But if there will be new a alias, probably Tomasi will introduce it at the end of his 'Tec storyline.


Maybe you read something I didn't, but that's not what he said in the stuff I read. He said they had "big plans" for Damian's return in the bat books. That could be simply referring to Tomasi using him in Detective comics. It doesn't mean Tynion plans to give him a big role in the main Batman book.
The timeline is a mess, so I would't use Doom War as proof for anything. The order of events was all over the place with that one.

----------


## dietrich

> Honestly, he's had the robin moniker for years now. I'm fine with him getting a new name. With Tomasi writing him next, I doubt any tension will really last for long.


He's not had it long enough and clearly he still needs guidance.

I feel like people are forgetting the purpose of the Robin Mantle. To give lost boys the right direction.

Not to mention that Damian is 13 and Bruce's kid. It'll look pretty dodgy for him to let his underage son just go off heroing on his own while still living under his roof.

Damian is still going to be Robin.

I know that Bruce these days thinks Robin was a failed experiment and says that Batman doesn't need Robin. But Damian still needs his guidance. Especially now after we saw him head down a dark path in his quest to keep civilians safe

----------


## Light of Justice

> If Damian would ever get a new alias, just a possibility not saying it might happen.
> What do you guys think his color schemes for his costume should be.
> Dick has the blue and black.
> Jason has the red and black.
> Tim has the red and green.
> Damian? I think his color schemes should be like his outfit in the battle of cowl, white and black? thoughts?


I think Tim is usually has red and yellow, not green. He wears green only on rebirth and that's carbon copy of original Robin suit which naturally has green. This is why I don't like that Gotham Knight games give Tim green color theme. Besides, Robin logo is yellow for years and Batgirl color is either purple or orange so why they give green for Tim?

Okay, I'm getting out of topic. For me I'd like if Damian's new name and costume aren't connected to either Bat or Al-Ghul. Just like he said, he's free from them. I've always thought that green is his color theme (and honestly he looks good on green) but it kinda makes him linked to Ra's Al-Ghul. The same logic applies to black. So maybe his color theme can be grey or silver, just like his Batman666 costume, and as emphasis that he's the blend between two world and two ideology.

----------


## Konja7

> I think Tim is usually has red and yellow, not green. He wears green only on rebirth and that's carbon copy of original Robin suit which naturally has green. This is why I don't like that Gotham Knight games give Tim green color theme. Besides, Robin logo is yellow for years and Batgirl color is either purple or orange so why they give green for Tim?
> 
> Okay, I'm getting out of topic. For me I'd like if Damian's new name and costume aren't connected to either Bat or Al-Ghul. Just like he said, he's free from them. I've always thought that green is his color theme (and honestly he looks good on green) but it kinda makes him linked to Ra's Al-Ghul. The same logic applies to black. So maybe his color theme can be grey or silver, just like his Batman666 costume, and as emphasis that he's the blend between two world and two ideology.


Tim originally used green color like other Robins. He started to use his "red" Robin in OYL (Robin 148). So, he uses green most of his time as Robin.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Bloodbat for Damian please. It ticks all the cool boxes : you know is dangerous (cause bloodbat*h*), that he is related to the bat by blood and that legacy and heritage are very important to the character.
> 
> Come on DC, I didn't want to spell it, but if you really can't be bothered to find a cool nickname for Damian in all the languages he speaks (Arabic, English, probably ancient and modern Greek, Turkic, French, German, Spanish, Portuguese, probably Chinese and Japanese) go for something like Bloodbat, not Batkid or Batboy. 
> 
> Damian is supposed to be surprisingly threatening and dangerous for a small package (if you don't allow him o grow like he should, reaching 14 years old soon I guess), not just ridiculous.


Bloodbat is badass name, but if with that name means that his costume will be red themed, sorry I will pass. We have enough reds in the family.Personally I like his given name meaning, "to tame" or "to conquer". So maybe they can give him codename on other language means "tame" or "conquer" and sounds badass. Or if DC feels particularly lazy, as they're always lately, Tamer is fine, maybe.

----------


## Blue22

Wow. I usually subscribe to the "they'e just fictional characters, no point getting *actually* upset about them" but this and _Heroes in Crisis_ hold the tiles of the only comics that have made me so mad that my hands shook. I've never seen something that so perfectly encapsulates why Bruce *and* Damian have been pissing me off lately.

You know....this would have been good. This could have been good. This could have been good for both of them. If Damian hadn't stopped at the same "your way doesn't work!" shit that Red Hood was on back when he first came onto the scene (One more reason why I'm not a fan of Damian going "Rogue". Kid, you're not unique. You're literally just the old Jason now). If you're gonna call Bruce to the carpet, go all the way. This was your chance to really unload on him. He isn't just a hypocrite. He isn't just failing as a crime fighter. He's failed as a patriarch to your entire family. 

Likewise, Bruce. Don't act like you don't know what this is about! "I don't know what brought this on", ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME!? It goes WAY further than just Alfred (and I wish they would have acknowledged why he started this team in the first place) despite this issue trying to repeatedly hit you over the head with a "this is about Alfred" shaped brick. This is the result of issues the two of you have been having for a VERY long time. And yet you're still barely owning up to anything. Instead you offer up a generic platitude and a hug!? I'd have punched you too! Who knows? Since the family apparently communicates through hitting each other, or some Tom King bullshit, maybe Damian was actually saying "I love you" [eyeroll]

This annual was...actually very well written. And it reminded me of how much I was actually starting to like these Titans. I'm more than ready for this damaging run to end, but I'm glad it's at least ending on a note that doesn't make me hate everyone. As for Damian...I don't agree that it's time for him to move away from Robin. He's still young, selfish, one track minded, and (contrary to what he thinks) *very* immature. It's funny. Because despite this run being a culmination of all his pent up aggression towards him, it's reminded me of just how *alike* he and Bruce are. 

I do want Damian to find his own identity eventually but...not like this. This ain't the way, chief. I know I'm probably worrying myself over nothing (especially since he's about to be in Tomasi's hands now) but I really am concerned about where things are going with him.

----------


## king81992

I'm surprised that Bruce admitted his failure. Usually, everyone else is to blame for Bruce's failures and bad behavior.

----------


## Korath

Surprisingly, I am torn.

In itself, I obviously like Damian clocking Bruce and teeling him his truths. I even like the portrayal of the Teen Titans, especially Emiko and Wallace. I think that Damian is more than able, at thirteen, to become independant precisely ebcause he isn't a normal thirteen years old kid. I find his reasoning logical and Batman's attempt to sway him more than a little ludicrous.

But on the other hand, I feel that the fight with Deathstroke took some wind from the emotional elements of this story which prevented all the other players to go all out, especially Damian on Bruce.

But I still like this issue, especially ebcause of Damian stating that he wants to get away from Batman's shadows. That's great news to my ears and I hope it'll stick, when he'll get his own identity (please, let Jorge Jimenez design the new suit!)

----------


## scary harpy

As far as colors go:

Grasyon is blueJason is redDrake is yellowDamian is green

ya know, i'd be strangely okay with Tim as a yellow Robin and Damian as a green Robin. Just a thought.

----------


## Ozymandias94

Call him Outcast, give him a katana with black and silver theme costume.

----------


## Korath

Not a fan of Outcast myself. I think it'll take away some of his agency away. Damian is choosing this and he should own it. Frankly, he isn't wrong at all in here.

----------


## J. D. Guy

> Not a fan of Outcast myself. I think it'll take away some of his agency away. Damian is choosing this and he should own it. Frankly, he isn't wrong at all in here.


Yeah. Them having Damian name himself "Outcast" (or accepting someone else dubbing him that name) casts the light that this wasn't a willful, legitimate choice of Damian's own. It gives too much weight to Batman or the Al'Ghuls (sp?) via implying he's "missing out" by choosing to separate himself from their influence. This would be tone-deaf given the circumstances and meaning behind Damian's choice in the first place, and as Korath says, would strip the agency (and gravitas) away from Damian having made that choice.

----------


## Frontier

> Bloodbat for Damian please. It ticks all the cool boxes : you know is dangerous (cause bloodbat*h*), that he is related to the bat by blood and that legacy and heritage are very important to the character.
> 
> Come on DC, I didn't want to spell it, but if you really can't be bothered to find a cool nickname for Damian in all the languages he speaks (Arabic, English, probably ancient and modern Greek, Turkic, French, German, Spanish, Portuguese, probably Chinese and Japanese) go for something like Bloodbat, not Batkid or Batboy. 
> 
> Damian is supposed to be surprisingly threatening and dangerous for a small package (if you don't allow him o grow like he should, reaching 14 years old soon I guess), not just ridiculous.


Bloodbat sounds too much like an edgy 90's hero to me.

----------


## Korath

> Bloodbat sounds too much like an edgy 90's hero to me.


It may or may not be intentional  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Jackalope89

How about "True Bat"?

----------


## Frontier

"Demonbat?"  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Restingvoice

As much as I like Bloodbat, he's dissociating, so no bat in the title, not even low bat

It needs to be something that is neither bat, demon, or bird because his dissociating from all of them

...

Green Hood

no

Something an edgy preteen would use

Night Reaper

----------


## TheCape

You want edgy? what about....Deathblow  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## DragonPiece

> Wow. I usually subscribe to the "they'e just fictional characters, no point getting *actually* upset about them" but this and _Heroes in Crisis_ hold the tiles of the only comics that have made me so mad that my hands shook. I've never seen something that so perfectly encapsulates why Bruce *and* Damian have been pissing me off lately.
> 
> You know....this would have been good. This could have been good. This could have been good for both of them. If Damian hadn't stopped at the same "your way doesn't work!" shit that Red Hood was on back when he first came onto the scene (One more reason why I'm not a fan of Damian going "Rogue". Kid, you're not unique. You're literally just the old Jason now). If you're gonna call Bruce to the carpet, go all the way. This was your chance to really unload on him. He isn't just a hypocrite. He isn't just failing as a crime fighter. He's failed as a patriarch to your entire family. 
> 
> Likewise, Bruce. Don't act like you don't know what this is about! "I don't know what brought this on", ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME!? It goes WAY further than just Alfred (and I wish they would have acknowledged why he started this team in the first place) despite this issue trying to repeatedly hit you over the head with a "this is about Alfred" shaped brick. This is the result of issues the two of you have been having for a VERY long time. And yet you're still barely owning up to anything. Instead you offer up a generic platitude and a hug!? I'd have punched you too! Who knows? Since the family apparently communicates through hitting each other, or some Tom King bullshit, maybe Damian was actually saying "I love you" [eyeroll]
> 
> This annual was...actually very well written. And it reminded me of how much I was actually starting to like these Titans. I'm more than ready for this damaging run to end, but I'm glad it's at least ending on a note that doesn't make me hate everyone. As for Damian...I don't agree that it's time for him to move away from Robin. He's still young, selfish, one track minded, and (contrary to what he thinks) *very* immature. It's funny. Because despite this run being a culmination of all his pent up aggression towards him, it's reminded me of just how *alike* he and Bruce are. 
> 
> I do want Damian to find his own identity eventually but...not like this. This ain't the way, chief. I know I'm probably worrying myself over nothing (especially since he's about to be in Tomasi's hands now) but I really am concerned about where things are going with him.


Having just read the issue, I agree with you. It's not something I wanted to happen to Damian's character, but it was a good idea referencing nightwing getting shot and alfred dying as for why Damian had this change of character as of late.

----------


## scary harpy

I'm surprised no one's suggested *Flamebird* as Damian's new alias. 

It fits since he's happiest when partnered with Grayson.

----------


## SixSpeedSamurai

hafid alshaytan - Grandson of the Demon 

Bastard Son

----------


## Blue22

> I'm surprised no one's suggested *Flamebird* as Damian's new alias. 
> 
> It fits since he's happiest when partnered with Grayson.


Many people have suggested that. Many times. Even before we knew Damian was gonna go this route. I've never really cared for the name, myself. But at this point, I'll gladly take it.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of issues that Damian needs to work out before he comes close to working with another Batfamily member right now. Even Dick. Granted, Dick should also have a lot to work out right now and it would be cool seeing those two sort themselves out together. But we all know that won't happen.

----------


## Eckri

> Many people have suggested that. Many times. Even before we knew Damian was gonna go this route. I've never really cared for the name, myself. But at this point, I'll gladly take it.
> 
> Unfortunately, there are a lot of issues that Damian needs to work out before he comes close to working with another Batfamily member right now. Even Dick. Granted, Dick should also have a lot to work out right now and it would be cool seeing those two sort themselves out together. But we all know that won't happen.



Definitely, he's going to issues with most of the Batfamily after this.
Top of the list would be Tim, he would rip him a part ala Pre-New 52, remember that issue where he'd recorded Damian as a threat then fought near Crime Alley.
Jason, remember that issue where Red Hood beats down Damian. Strained relationship.
Barbara won't approve of Damian going Assassin's Creed kills. 
Cass? wouldn't associate with him. Indifferent
Steph? wouldn't associate with him. Indifferent.
Duke? wouldn't associate with him. Indifferent.
Harper? wouldn't associate with him. Indifferent.
Dick is the most likely person to give Damian a chance.

Anyone else from the Batfam I missed out?


Still think Damian's new alias, in my opinion, could be Rokh. Simple name, taken from mythology just like Dick Grayson's nightwing.

----------


## scary harpy

> Many people have suggested that. Many times. Even before we knew Damian was gonna go this route. I've never really cared for the name, myself. But at this point, I'll gladly take it.
> 
> Unfortunately, there are a lot of issues that Damian needs to work out before he comes close to working with another Batfamily member right now. Even Dick. Granted, Dick should also have a lot to work out right now and it would be cool seeing those two sort themselves out together. But we all know that won't happen.


yes, i know.

I meant that no one had suggested it again in the last few hours since the Teen Titans Annual came out.

----------


## Light of Justice

> yes, i know.
> 
> I meant that no one had suggested it again in the last few hours since the Teen Titans Annual came out.


Because Damian said that he's finally free, so it's more possible that he will have independent name and not become someone's sidekick, even for Dick Grayson

----------


## J. D. Guy

> Definitely, he's going to issues with most of the Batfamily after this.
> Top of the list would be Tim, he would rip him a part ala Pre-New 52, remember that issue where he'd recorded Damian as a threat then fought near Crime Alley.
> Jason, remember that issue where Red Hood beats down Damian. Strained relationship.
> Barbara won't approve of Damian going Assassin's Creed kills. 
> Cass? wouldn't associate with him. Indifferent
> Steph? wouldn't associate with him. Indifferent.
> Duke? wouldn't associate with him. Indifferent.
> Harper? wouldn't associate with him. Indifferent.
> Dick is the most likely person to give Damian a chance.
> ...


Whether or not Duke would or wouldn't associate with Damian would be context dependent, but would be more than within the realm of possibility. Especially given their strong character moment that occurred during their seminal (in feel and presentation, even if not in actuality) Robin War interaction.

----------


## Blue22

> Because Damian said that he's finally free, so it's more possible that he will have independent name and not become someone's sidekick, even for Dick Grayson


I mean....There is a difference between being partners and being a sidekick.

But yes. I think the whole point of this, unfortunately, is that Damian's gonna be going solo for a while. Which I normally wouldn't mind but....given the current state he's in.....Ugh.

----------


## Bikkun

> Because despite this run being a culmination of all his pent up aggression towards him, it's reminded me of just how *alike* he and Bruce are.


That's really the entire reason Morrison had him  be Dick's Robin. Robin is supposed to play off Batman because they have opposing personalities. The light to Batman's darkness. In their case, it was reversed because you have Robin''s darkness bouncing off Batman's light. New 52 just had Robin's darkness and Batman's darkness feeding into each other. It's why writers opted to have Bruce try to be a good father and be a good influence on Damian (become Damian's light) but it really didn't stick and work in the same way.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Lol look at how he handled reconciling with Cass in her series. He would probably beat Damian black and blue as a bonding process.


What hapenned?

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Why are you guys suggesting silver color for him?
I like he with green... there is so many possibilities, Ra's and Batman appearance don't need to be just about color, Damian can use green in many ways that don't remember the Al Ghuls.
About the name, not with Bat, would make no sense after what he just said...
I think if Dick talks with Damian would not be contradictory they becoming partners,  since Dicks accepts Damian and believes in him, not like "Batman's sons or Al Ghul's grandson". Firebird is not dependent of nightwing wing too like Robin is with Batman.
But if he would take another name, I think would be less fanciful. Is Damian from Pakistan? The flag has a cool moon and star...
I can't think in English so well, but I would like if wasn't a full with anger name as death stroke has.
And, I still don't like the idea of Damian being alone, if he will follow his "own path" I would like if he stays on himalaya with monks.
Or since Outlaws are ending... I think he and Jason could stay a couple of issues together? They can make this works.
Damian lost baby tooth 2 years ago, ge is a baby, can't be let by himself yet...

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Bloodbat is badass name, but if with that name means that his costume will be red themed, sorry I will pass. We have enough reds in the family.Personally I like his given name meaning, "to tame" or "to conquer". So maybe they can give him codename on other language means "tame" or "conquer" and sounds badass. Or if DC feels particularly lazy, as they're always lately, Tamer is fine, maybe.


DC: "Damian" means "Tame", we need a name that meas "Tamer"... let's put his new hero name as... "Damian"
Everybody saw this coming, but, stil...

----------


## Korath

> Whether or not Duke would or wouldn't associate with Damian would be context dependent, but would be more than within the realm of possibility. Especially given their strong character moment that occurred during their seminal (in feel and presentation, even if not in actuality) Robin War interaction.


Yeah, and after the Outsiders, I could see Duke seeking Damian.

But as for an alias... is Justice already taken at DC ? It could fit Damian's motives.

----------


## Light of Justice

> DC: "Damian" means "Tame", we need a name that meas "Tamer"... let's put his new hero name as... "Damian"
> Everybody saw this coming, but, stil...


That's why I said if DC feels particularly lazy, which is unfortunately their permanent mood lately.

----------


## Eckri

> Yeah, and after the Outsiders, I could see Duke seeking Damian.
> 
> But as for an alias... is Justice already taken at DC ? It could fit Damian's motives.


Speaking of which, what happened to Duke? Last I heard he and Cass were on a mission together, what happened?

As for aliases, give or take Damian might just wanna lay low and get a new alias after the recent annual. Let the kid cool off before jumping on to a new name.

----------


## Korath

> Speaking of which, what happened to Duke? Last I heard he and Cass were on a mission together, what happened?


They are together in Outsiders

----------


## Light of Justice

> Whether or not Duke would or wouldn't associate with Damian would be context dependent, but would be more than within the realm of possibility. Especially given their strong character moment that occurred during their seminal (in feel and presentation, even if not in actuality) Robin War interaction.


Indeed Duke and Damian has good bonding in the end of Robin War, but sadly none of DC writers remember it. Tom King as the creator of Robin War and create Duke and Damian moment seems like forget to develop it further on his Batman run (which is predictable, that man cares nothing except BatCat), he even made Damian cried because of Duke scene, which is for me it's so OOC. I mean, it's really shows that on Robin War ending Damian accepted Duke and willing to walk along with him but on the first page after cover of the first issue Batman and The Signal, they did this :


And after that there's no interaction between them. It's like all writer collectively agree to sever his connection with other people. Only because of Morrison's big impact made Dick and Damian connection stay safe. At least until now.

----------


## Light of Justice

And that remind me of something. Look guys, I loves Damian with Dick as much as you all. I love their connection, and their strong brothership borderline father-son relationship at some point. I love and heavily adore Dick who accept Damian as he is to be his Robin, all his effort to change Damian toward goodness, and his genuine love for Damian. But we can't count on Dick to be Damian's moral support right now. We can't just hope Dick will take Damian on his wing after his collision with Bruce, understand his actions and feelings, just expect him to accept Damian's actions. Dick is not family's private therapist. Heck he didn't even as bubbly and as patient like fandom often portrayed. He has his own morality, and that morality for sure disagree with all Damian's act. Besides, one of Damian's method in this terrible run is mind-wiping, and on Ric saga, which is equally terrible if not more, he got amnesic, lose his basic self, and has been brainwashing 3 times (Scarecrow, Court of Owl, and Joker). Honestly I can't see how Dick will accept and handle all Damian did in TT run without disregarding his own trauma after Ric saga. If somehow that happened, then Dc is adamant to make Dick Holy Saint or something.

Damian's problem is started with Bruce and has to end by Bruce. I love Damian but I also love Dick, so I don't want Dick to get roped into Damian and Bruce's mess, especially just after he gets his life back. It's like the time when people expect Dick to handle Jason's trauma, which is sadly I've encountered many of them. On Morrison run people want Dick to handle Jason's trauma and murderous rampage with power of love and family, and became angry when Dickbats put Jason in Arkham Asylum instead (which is actually a reasonable act on his capability as someone who tried to fill Bruce's presence on the cowl. 

On this thread, people's expectation for Dick to somehow fix Damian is honestly makes me wary, I am just afraid if Dick has negative response for Damian's act (which is understandable with his morality and after all the shit he went through), people will get heartbroken and turn to hate Dick instead.

----------


## Yennefer

Not that it matters as far as Damian's alias is concerned... But I found names for his identity... Mostly from Greek mythology... And I found them very interesting! Would you like it if I posted them? It's more about seeing beautiful names with cool meaning...!

----------


## Eckri

> Not that it matters as far as Damian's alias is concerned... But I found names for his identity... Mostly from Greek mythology... And I found them very interesting! Would you like it if I posted them? It's more about seeing beautiful names with cool meaning...!


Curious, by all means list them.

----------


## Morgoth

> I am just afraid if Dick has negative response for Damian's act (which is understandable with his morality and after all the shit he went through), people will get heartbroken and turn to hate Dick instead.


Logically, he should be angry, at least for the reason that Damian, in fact, corrupted the whole idea of Teen Titans, which are also incredibly important to Dick. Purely theoretically, even if Damian makes peace with Bruce this fall and winter, then Dick and the rest of the younger heroes for some time must be angry with him.
But on the other hand, Thompson almost entirely ignores this entire prison/brainwashing thing. He even ignores the fact, that Damian started all of this before Alfred's death and Dick's amnesia. He make these events the main reason of all of this. And Bruce mentions prison once, but eventually doesn't give a damn about all of this, he just came to make a peace and bring him home, he doesn't even think about rejecting him or sending him somewhere, despite Damian's crimes. All this could mean that the Bat Office (I assume that this issue has already been clearly written relying on what they want) is going to ignore most part of Glass's run, leaving only the murder of Blood, and focus on Damian's trauma and grief. They simplified the storyline incredibly, obviously for a reason.

----------


## scary harpy

> Originally Posted by Yennefer
> 
> 
> Not that it matters as far as Damian's alias is concerned... But I found names for his identity... Mostly from Greek mythology... And I found them very interesting! Would you like it if I posted them? It's more about seeing beautiful names with cool meaning...!
> 
> 
> Curious, by all means list them.


Me too. 10 characters

----------


## Digifiend

> As far as colors go:
> 
> Grasyon is blueJason is redDrake is yellowDamian is green
> 
> ya know, i'd be strangely okay with Tim as a yellow Robin and Damian asa green Robin. Just a thought.


Yellow is Signal's colour.




> Yeah, and after the Outsiders, I could see Duke seeking Damian.
> 
> But as for an alias... is Justice already taken at DC ? It could fit Damian's motives.


Moot point, surely, because a Marvel hero is called Justice.

----------


## Smilingblade

Honestly, DC should just have Damian succeed his grandfather as the next Ra's al Ghul, similar to what Batman Beyond did.

----------


## scary harpy

> Yellow is Signal's colour.


Tim and Duke can be yellow. I don't think people will confuse them.




> Moot point, surely, because a Marvel hero is called Justice.


There's a Marvel hero named just about anything. There's a Marvel villain named just about anything else.

----------


## Konja7

> Logically, he should be angry, at least for the reason that Damian, in fact, corrupted the whole idea of Teen Titans, which are also incredibly important to Dick. Purely theoretically, even if Damian makes peace with Bruce this fall and winter, then Dick and the rest of the younger heroes for some time must be angry with him.
> But on the other hand, Thompson almost entirely ignores this entire prison/brainwashing thing. He even ignores the fact, that Damian started all of this before Alfred's death and Dick's amnesia. He make these events the main reason of all of this. And Bruce mentions prison once, but eventually doesn't give a damn about all of this, he just came to make a peace and bring him home, he doesn't even think about rejecting him or sending him somewhere, despite Damian's crimes. All this could mean that the Bat Office (I assume that this issue has already been clearly written relying on what they want) is going to ignore most part of Glass's run, leaving only the murder of Blood, and focus on Damian's trauma and grief. They simplified the storyline incredibly, obviously for a reason.


DC ignoring events in previous arcs to steer the story in the direction they want? That's extremely likely to happen.

That's why I don't usually use events in solos to define or fill the backstories of the characters, because it is pretty likely DC will forget or ignore these.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Honestly, DC should just have Damian succeed his grandfather as the next Ra's al Ghul, similar to what Batman Beyond did.


But this means Damian will disappears  :< I don't think they will follow Damian story in the League

----------


## Restingvoice

> Honestly, DC should just have Damian succeed his grandfather as the next Ra's al Ghul, similar to what Batman Beyond did.


I don't know what Batman Beyond did but for Damian to become The Demon's Head would be a complete regression of his character

----------


## Rebeca Armus

SYNONYMS FOR redemption
atonement
restitution
reclamation
reparation
retrieval

Maybe one of this names? Don't know how this sounds

----------


## Eckri

A Damian story involving the League of Assassins could be interesting if say there was a divide like Arkham Knight.

Say Ra's Al Ghul is dead, like dead or terminated permanently or out of commission for a long time. The League of Assassins is fractured and divided, factions within League strive for control with characters like Shiva, Deathstroke, and Nyssa (I think she's Damian's aunt? Is she in the current canon).
Then Damian gets in the mix, exploring his relationship with the League,  I mean we really haven't seen much of his relationship (that I know of) with any other League of Assassin members besides Ra's, Talia, and his cousin. Maybe get Damian to team up with his aunt perhaps? thoughts?

----------


## Konja7

> But this means Damian will disappears  :< I don't think they will follow Damian story in the League


i think it is pretty possible this will happen if Damian loss Robin mantle.

We know DC doesn't like Damian. So, if they have the opportunity to send Damian to the limbo, it's pretty likely they will take it.

----------


## Shen

> A Damian story involving the League of Assassins could be interesting if say there was a divide like Arkham Knight.
> 
> Say Ra's Al Ghul is dead, like dead or terminated permanently or out of commission for a long time. The League of Assassins is fractured and divided, factions within League strive for control with characters like Shiva, Deathstroke, and Nyssa (I think she's Damian's aunt? Is she in the current canon).
> Then Damian gets in the mix, exploring his relationship with the League,  I mean we really haven't seen much of his relationship (that I know of) with any other League of Assassin members besides Ra's, Talia, and his cousin. Maybe get Damian to team up with his aunt perhaps? thoughts?


I wouldn't mind seeing this. I remember reading an issue of the Outsiders where Ra's spoke to Shiva about Damian and how Batman spoiled him. This could be the perfect chance for him to sway him more to his side. It won't be progression but it would be something. I'd like for Damian to find out more about the Assassins, like the Ancient city from RHATO (though I think thats a Jason exclusive ) and the untitled. He could have his rematch with Mara and they could become allies, and try and take over the league.  I wouldn't be opposed to it, but I don't see it happening for Damian.

----------


## Katana500

The League of Assassins could offer up an interesting supporting cast for Damian. Could maybe have him lead an Anti Ra's faction of the organisation - in some sort of civil war with the main villain Ra's faction (allowing them to continue to be used as villians when needed)

----------


## Yennefer

Okay! I liked dark names... Some are from other countries! 

GREEK MYTHOLOGY: 

Chaos: the state of void before the creation of the world. Chaos existed with Gaia and Eros before the 12 Gods according with Hesiod.

Erebus: He symbolizes the silence and the depth of the dark, the night. According with Hesiod, Erebus is the child that was born from Chaos and Gaia with the help of Eros. However, Erebus parents change depending the source, as it happens with many other figures of the Greek mythology. His sister is Nyx or "Night" ( Νύχτα / "Neechta") with whom he created the light of the sky, the Aether ( which means "air" in Ancient Greek) and Hemera (which means "day" in modern Greek).

Kydoimos: He is a demon. He personifies the sound of war or the spirit of it. He is depicted with Eris ( daughter of Nyx and Godess of jelousy and fighting. In Ancient Greek the word meant "fight" "argument") and Kira in the shield of Achilles. 

Taraxippus/ Taraxos: A being of agitaton, trouble and fear.

Deimos: He was the personification of terror. Ancient Greek believed he was the son of Ares with Aphrodite or Kitheria. Though according with another source he was the son of War. His brother was "Phobos" (which stands for Fear in greek).

Phobos: The personification of fear. Brother of Deimos and son of Ares with Aphrodite.

Eleos: the personification of mercy.

Kratos: the personification of raw power (with the meaning of authority). According with Plato's "Protagora" (the myth about the genesis of the man and the culture with the help of Promitheus.) Kratos and Bia were the guards of Zeus. Because of them, Promitheus couldn't take the political art, the highest gift of all which characterized only the society of Gods, in order to give it to people and help them create sustainable cities. Today the word means "State". 

Melanthios: which means "black flower" . He was a sepherd in Odyssey. It is not scary, nor dark. Certainly not for Damian... But I really liked it.

Perseus: from the ancient verd "πέρθω" (pertho) which means "Destroy". He was the son of Zeus and Danae.

Thanatos: God of Death. But it's too dramatic. The word is still used in modern greek for "death"

NAMES FROM OTHER COUNTRIES: 

Sephtis (Persian) : Eternal death. 
Kasin: Pure/ shining/ Appearing like a conqueror/ Lord Shiva (I don't think this is appropriate for a comic character, if it is the name of the Indian God. However it is beautiful!)
Rahul: Conqueror of all miseries.
Tareek: The Conqueror


Note: The Art of Politics meant the knowledge to create cities, which were absolutely necessary for man's survival. It includes the "laws" and the "morality".

Note 2: As a Greek I can only guarantee for the mythological names, because I could reach and understand their origin and meaning. The other names are from name sites, thus and the lack of content. It is possible to have written something terribly wrong. Do not hesitate to message me! 


Even if most of them are overly dramatic, especially for a 13 yo (even for a young adult lol), but I found them totally badass!  :Smile:

----------


## protege

> i think it is pretty possible this will happen if Damian loss Robin mantle.
> 
> We know DC doesn't like Damian. So, if they have the opportunity to send Damian to the limbo, it's pretty likely they will take it.


Dc doesnt like Damian? They sure gave him preferential treatment over duke.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Okay! I liked dark names... Some are from other countries! 
> 
> GREEK MYTHOLOGY: 
> 
> Chaos: the state of void before the creation of the world. Chaos existed with Gaia and Eros before the 12 Gods according with Hesiod.
> 
> Erebus: He symbolizes the silence and the depth of the dark, the night. According with Hesiod, Erebus is the child that was born from Chaos and Gaia with the help of Eros. However, Erebus parents change depending the source, as it happens with many other figures of the Greek mythology. His sister is Nyx or "Night" ( Νύχτα / "Neechta") with whom he created the light of the sky, the Aether ( which means "air" in Ancient Greek) and Hemera (which means "day" in modern Greek).
> 
> Kydoimos: He is a demon. He personifies the sound of war or the spirit of it. He is depicted with Eris ( daughter of Nyx and Godess of jelousy and fighting. In Ancient Greek the word meant "fight" "argument") and Kira in the shield of Achilles. 
> ...


Not Phobos and Deimos - Wonder Woman characters
The well-known ones either like Chaos, Thanatos, Erebus, Perseus and Kratos are likely already used in Wonder Woman too

Conqueror is a good idea.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

If we follow futures DC made in comics untill now, Damian would:

- leave being Robin
- Desappears
- Keep disappeared when a new Leviatan shows up (with Duke being Robin). (it was before reboot).
- Do a terrible thing (because the baby hittler thing).
- eventually becoming Batman with Gotham in a deplorable situation. (it was before reboot).

---

Why do you keep saying DC hates Damian? They give much importance for him.

----------


## Pohzee

They shoulda let Damian be Leviathan. I saw some convincing theories on here for that. Plus it ties

----------


## protege

> Definitely, he's going to issues with most of the Batfamily after this.
> Top of the list would be Tim, he would rip him a part ala Pre-New 52, remember that issue where he'd recorded Damian as a threat then fought near Crime Alley.
> Jason, remember that issue where Red Hood beats down Damian. Strained relationship.
> Barbara won't approve of Damian going Assassin's Creed kills. 
> Cass? wouldn't associate with him. Indifferent
> Steph? wouldn't associate with him. Indifferent.
> Duke? wouldn't associate with him. Indifferent.
> Harper? wouldn't associate with him. Indifferent.
> Dick is the most likely person to give Damian a chance.
> ...


Kate Kane, maybe?

----------


## Rebeca Armus

ah, about Batman trying to reconcile with Damian, the phrase of my head is "too late".
Damian said there is nothing in manor for Bruce too, but Selina is still there, right?
And, one more thing that always make no sense for me, Damian shouted about Wayne Manor and the other TT was by him side, how characters can't listen things being so close when is convenient?

----------


## Restingvoice

> They shoulda let Damian be Leviathan. I saw some convincing theories on here for that. Plus it ties


Talia would approve, but is that event still going?




> ah, about Batman trying to reconcile with Damian, the phrase of my head is "too late".
> Damian said there is nothing in manor for Bruce too, but Selina is still there, right?
> And, one more thing that always make no sense for me, Damian shouted about Wayne Manor and the other TT was by him side, how characters can't listen things being so close when is convenient?


He bonded with Selina but it was just 1-2 issues. They're not that close yet

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Kate Kane, maybe?


Did they ever interact with each other?

----------


## Morgoth

> We know DC doesn't like Damian.


Lol, what? They had perfect opportunity to destroy his character in that Annual. They didn't do it. 
If they would hate him that much, Bruce would have kicked him out in this comic (everyone thought that was exactly what would happen and would have deprived him of his mantle), and they would have made him a villain for sure, in order to get rid of him later.
Instead, they put the responsibility on Bruce and, for the first time, got him to admit that he had screwed up and added a ton of opportunities to restore the status quo as if nothing had happened, yeah, you'll see, what's what will happen eventually.
If this comic has proven anything, it is that DC won't do anything more radical with Damian than giving up Robin's mantle (and that is still questionable, God knows what Tomasi will write). Perhaps DiDio wanted, we know that some plans changed for this run, but now this is no longer relevant.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> And that remind me of something. Look guys, I loves Damian with Dick as much as you all. I love their connection, and their strong brothership borderline father-son relationship at some point. I love and heavily adore Dick who accept Damian as he is to be his Robin, all his effort to change Damian toward goodness, and his genuine love for Damian. But we can't count on Dick to be Damian's moral support right now. We can't just hope Dick will take Damian on his wing after his collision with Bruce, understand his actions and feelings, just expect him to accept Damian's actions. Dick is not family's private therapist. Heck he didn't even as bubbly and as patient like fandom often portrayed. He has his own morality, and that morality for sure disagree with all Damian's act. Besides, one of Damian's method in this terrible run is mind-wiping, and on Ric saga, which is equally terrible if not more, he got amnesic, lose his basic self, and has been brainwashing 3 times (Scarecrow, Court of Owl, and Joker). Honestly I can't see how Dick will accept and handle all Damian did in TT run without disregarding his own trauma after Ric saga. If somehow that happened, then Dc is adamant to make Dick Holy Saint or something.
> 
> Damian's problem is started with Bruce and has to end by Bruce. I love Damian but I also love Dick, so I don't want Dick to get roped into Damian and Bruce's mess, especially just after he gets his life back. It's like the time when people expect Dick to handle Jason's trauma, which is sadly I've encountered many of them. On Morrison run people want Dick to handle Jason's trauma and murderous rampage with power of love and family, and became angry when Dickbats put Jason in Arkham Asylum instead (which is actually a reasonable act on his capability as someone who tried to fill Bruce's presence on the cowl. 
> 
> On this thread, people's expectation for Dick to somehow fix Damian is honestly makes me wary, I am just afraid if Dick has negative response for Damian's act (which is understandable with his morality and after all the shit he went through), people will get heartbroken and turn to hate Dick instead.


this makes senses </3

before blood brother, I could see Dick going to Damian easily, but now I don't know. 
There are things I don't agree with, but understand, like when Dick sent Jason to prison (still don't think should be Arkham), but it was not like when Bruce wanted to do this because of the fake Penguin shoot. 
I think I will not be angry with Dick if he can't deal well with Damian, I will feel sad for both, but understand. </3 Like I felt about Jason when Bruce didn't kill Joker and he was in deep emotional pain (but in this I am in Jason side) I don't agree or understand Batman.

----------


## protege

> Read the issue and I appreciate that KF was the only one that didn't hit Damian; which is funny after he solo them earlier but it shows that moral in KF that gets talked about a lot but rarely shown.
> 
> Anyway, I can't join in the outrage anymore as it gives me a headache. I feel terrible for all of these characters not just Damian and believe everyone of them deserve better writing and direction. Once Djinn left the only place I thought the book would go is up because I still believe she was the worst of the three newbies writing wise but no. 2 years is enough to be in a different place with all of them and I think if Glass' and co wanted to write his teen Suicide Squad then he should've done so with, Crush, Djinn, and RH as new characters with no ties to TT and left Damian, KF, and Arrow out.


I dropped teen titans once I learned roundhouse was going to betray the team, so I dont understand what hes still doing there. And while I have a cursory idea of what happened to djinn at the end, I wish she stayed with the team; it wasnt all that interesting after she left.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> They shoulda let Damian be Leviathan. I saw some convincing theories on here for that. Plus it ties


But the future Leviathan wasn't Damian, right? Was he a clone? He could be just Talia's thing.

----------


## protege

> Did they ever interact with each other?


I dont know; I dont follow Batman that closely. It just strikes me that Kate and Damian are in similar circumstances.

----------


## adrikito

I saw the annual 2..

Despite all the TT mistakes with Damian I think that it was a good issue. I like how this comic showed Damian relationship with Alfred that as normal person(not superheroe) and with his attitude is the most closely to one father that Damian(and each Robin) had and unlike Batman he will not fail you if you need him.. Because he was always here. 

Waiting for his return. He is one good person. Sad for Damian decision to renounce to ROBIN ROLE.. I wonder what will happen with him.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Talia would approve, but is that event still going?
> 
> 
> 
> He bonded with Selina but it was just 1-2 issues. They're not that close yet


Ok... I am not finding this easily on internet. Can someone tell me 
why they broke up? 
For how long? 
How they cameback again, 
who start and if they kissed each other again or they are just like "partners workers".

----------


## dietrich

> I dont know; I dont follow Batman that closely. It just strikes me that Kate and Damian are in similar circumstances.


Sadly Kate and Damian have never interacted. In the one arc of Tec where they could have done, Damian didn't say much [the arc where Bruce puts Kate on trial for shooting Clayface]

I would have liked to know Damian's thoughts on the trial since he has killed as a Bat ally.

Hopefully the new Bat office will do a better job of having the so-called batfamily actually interact like a family.

----------


## dietrich

> The League of Assassins could offer up an interesting supporting cast for Damian. Could maybe have him lead an Anti Ra's faction of the organisation - in some sort of civil war with the main villain Ra's faction (allowing them to continue to be used as villians when needed)


The thing with that is that it clashes with Damian future in the current Batman Beyond.

I really hope they keep that for that verse since it has so much potential.

The Ra's who changes the direction of the LOA has always been my ideal end for Damian so the current BB arc is pretty much wish fulfilment for me.

Imagine if they carry on and spin off that to a BBverse with Bruce, Mayor Grayson, Demon's Head Damian, Batman Terry, Nightwing and Matt?

Current Damian shouldn't go back to the LOA. That doesn't line up with his current direction and motivations.

He could join up with Mara and the Demon's Fist as a team of crime fighters. That would give him his own unique team rather than have him follow the usual because Dick Grayson did it TT route that is expected with Robins.

----------


## Godlike13

Annual was trash. And not even because of Damian, that is the character arc the poor kid is destined to circle, but awful job done with Deathstoke.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Sadly Kate and Damian have never interacted. In the one arc of Tec where they could have done, Damian didn't say much [the arc where Bruce puts Kate on trial for shooting Clayface]
> 
> I would have liked to know Damian's thoughts on the trial since he has killed as a Bat ally.
> 
> Hopefully the new Bat office will do a better job of having the so-called batfamily actually interact like a family.


Damian kind give his opinion in Batwoman trial, in Bat tec 975, that was: he doesn't care, even a little "tt"

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I don't remember seeing Damian judging who kills or doesn't kill, and usually he judge a looot.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> The thing with that is that it clashes with Damian future in the current Batman Beyond.
> 
> I really hope they keep that for that verse since it has so much potential.
> 
> The Ra's who changes the direction of the LOA has always been my ideal end for Damian so the current BB arc is pretty much wish fulfilment for me.
> 
> Imagine if they carry on and spin off that to a BBverse with Bruce, Mayor Grayson, Demon's Head Damian, Batman Terry, Nightwing and Matt?
> 
> Current Damian shouldn't go back to the LOA. That doesn't line up with his current direction and motivations.
> ...


There is any chance DC creates a new group just because of Damian? They usually keep names for be more secure/easy to sell.

I think Damian next step could be like Jason with LoA, Jason was there to train and get better of what happened, but they never had a permanent post for him there, he was not working for them too or trying  to prove himself for Ra's or Talia.
Damian should have a place to come back,  not be a leader, a partner or a sidekick of anyone. 
He could calm dow his mind and still not be alone, I don't know how much time this would take, but DC could do a new mini solo with his adventures.
And I think Damian's pets should stay with him, at least Titus, he would has a place and a friend. :-')

----------


## dietrich

> There is any chance DC creates a new group just because of Damian? They usually keep names for be more secure/easy to sell.
> 
> I think Damian next step could be like Jason with LoA, Jason was there to train and get better of what happened, but they never had a permanent post for him there, he was not working for them too or trying  to prove himself for Ra's or Talia.
> Damian should have a place to come back,  not be a leader, a partner or a sidekick of anyone. 
> He could calm dow his mind and still not be alone, I don't know how much time this would take, but DC could do a new mini solo with his adventures.
> And I think Damian's pets should stay with him, at least Titus, he would has a place and a friend. :-')


I don't think it's a good idea to have Damian be like Jason just like it's not a good idea for Jason to share Damian's lOA/Al Ghul connections.

They shouldn't dip into each other's function's and lore since that undermines the strength of each individual IP


Jason/Red Hood has his niche. Nightwing has his niche and Damian has his niche as former assassin turned hero. heir to 2 opposing dynasties trying to find acceptance and his place in the world.

Damian left the LOA of his own free will and renounced their teachings/methods even before he joined the Bats. Before he became Robin. Giving up Robin doesn't and shouldn't mean he has to default to Al Ghul/LOA.

Nature or Nurture. Damian is an Al Ghul and a Wayne. He was indoctrinated by both of his folks. The cult of the Bat or the cult of the Assassins?

Damian's path should be melding both together into something fresh and positive without totally becoming assimilated by either one side.

Talia is a bad guy and Damian's foe so he shouldn't return to her.

Damian has the resources to take care of himself if need be.

More importantly it's not necessary since we know he'll be popping up in the bat books soon so it's not like he's venturing far from Gotham or Batman's world.

----------


## Restingvoice

> The thing with that is that it clashes with Damian future in the current Batman Beyond.
> 
> I really hope they keep that for that verse since it has so much potential.
> 
> The Ra's who changes the direction of the LOA has always been my ideal end for Damian so the current BB arc is pretty much wish fulfilment for me.
> 
> Imagine if they carry on and spin off that to a BBverse with Bruce, Mayor Grayson, Demon's Head Damian, Batman Terry, Nightwing and Matt?
> 
> Current Damian shouldn't go back to the LOA. That doesn't line up with his current direction and motivations.
> ...


Batman Beyond is still the canon future?

----------


## dietrich

> Batman Beyond is still the canon future?


Yeah. It is still described as the main earth a number of years in the future.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Yeah. It is still described as the main earth a number of years in the future.


uuuuuuuuuuuuuggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh locking futures ah what am I annoyed about these things never matter

----------


## dietrich

> There is any chance DC creates a new group just because of Damian? They usually keep names for be more secure/easy to sell.
> 
> I think Damian next step could be like Jason with LoA, Jason was there to train and get better of what happened, but they never had a permanent post for him there, he was not working for them too or trying  to prove himself for Ra's or Talia.
> Damian should have a place to come back,  not be a leader, a partner or a sidekick of anyone. 
> He could calm dow his mind and still not be alone, I don't know how much time this would take, but DC could do a new mini solo with his adventures.
> And I think Damian's pets should stay with him, at least Titus, he would has a place and a friend. :-')


You are correct that DC wouldn't normally just invest in an unproven team. However Damian does sell and  would be the initial draw.

----------


## Eckri

> I don't think it's a good idea to have Damian be like Jason just like it's not a good idea for Jason to share Damian's lOA/Al Ghul connections.
> 
> They shouldn't dip into each other's function's and lore since that undermines the strength of each individual IP
> 
> 
> Jason/Red Hood has his niche. Nightwing has his niche and Damian has his niche as former assassin turned hero. heir to 2 opposing dynasties trying to find acceptance and his place in the world.
> 
> Damian left the LOA of his own free will and renounced their teachings/methods even before he joined the Bats. Before he became Robin. Giving up Robin doesn't and shouldn't mean he has to default to Al Ghul/LOA.
> 
> ...


I agree, Damian should forge his own path. Mixing the Bat and the League lessons on his own thing, but should he kill? like the LoA or not like Batman? A mix perhaps depending on the context.

Now I'd like to see a one issue story of Damian just travelling around the world before popping back into Gotham.

But the resources? After quitting as Robin he has no Wayne bucks, the only reliable resource he has is Goliath which is for travel. Still Damian going on a short world searching mission on his place would be a nice little short story.

----------


## dietrich

> uuuuuuuuuuuuuggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh locking futures ah what am I annoyed about these things never matter


To be fair since Rebirth Beyond has been adapting it's world and story to match the current comic continuity.It's not so locked.

----------


## dietrich

> I agree, Damian should forge his own path. Mixing the Bat and the League lessons on his own thing, but should he kill? like the LoA or not like Batman? A mix perhaps depending on the context.
> 
> Now I'd like to see a one issue story of Damian just travelling around the world before popping back into Gotham.
> 
> But the resources? After quitting as Robin he has no Wayne bucks, the only reliable resource he has is Goliath which is for travel. Still Damian going on a short world searching mission on his place would be a nice little short story.


The Al Ghul's wealth dwarfs the Wayne's and most of Damian's personal wealth and assets aren't thanks to his father.

He was able to donate 2 million to the Gotham Shelter in rebirth. I doubt Bruce  gives him that much of an allowance.

It's shame Gleason is now Marvel exclusive. Now would be the perfect time to give us chapters 2 and 3 of RSOB.

I don't think Damian should kill. At least not currently since his story so far doesn't provide a valid reason why he should suddenly be fine with killing.

Sure he has lost faith in Batman's methods but there's nothing that makes me feel that Damian killing would be in character.

----------


## protege

> You are correct that DC wouldn't normally just invest in an unproven team. However Damian does sell and  would be the initial draw.


That didnt really work with the last iteration of teen titans, did it?

----------


## dietrich

> That didn’t really work with the last iteration of teen titans, did it?


I believe it did. DCNation posts what titles are doing well [top 10] in the digital charts each week and the current TT is usually present.

Physical sales according to the data on Diamond. This iteration when compared to the rest of the proven teams that DC invested in worked.
Or at least performed well when compared to other team titles.

----------


## Restingvoice

> I believe it did. DCNation posts what titles are doing well [top 10] in the digital charts each week and the current TT is usually present.
> 
> Physical sales according to the data on Diamond. This iteration when compared to the rest of the proven teams that DC invested in worked.


That reminds me. They don't do Diamond anymore so we can't check the sales from now on...

----------


## dietrich

> That reminds me. They don't do Diamond anymore so we can't check the sales from now on...


The DC twitter feed doesn't give the actual sales figures but they do post the titles that have performed well digitally. They also update on issues that have gone for 2nd, 3rd or in the case of Dead Planet #2 4th printing.

They also recently started posting the titles that have sold well on Amazon.

There was also a post last week stating that 3 Jokers #1 has had 300k pre orders

I wonder if there will include the figures for physical/all titles in the future?

----------


## Eckri

Wait I just remembered. 
Didn't Saturn Girl mind wiped Damian during that Legion of Superheroes issue, did he know about that after that issue?
That's like how Bruce got mind wiped in Identity Crisis, Bruce and Damian could bond on that.
But man, if Damian ever found out about that, think he and Jon are still friends? or he'll just add Saturn Girl (and maybe some Legion members) to his list of people he despises

----------


## dietrich

> Wait I just remembered. 
> Didn't Saturn Girl mind wiped Damian during that Legion of Superheroes issue, did he know about that after that issue?
> That's like how Bruce got mind wiped in Identity Crisis, Bruce and Damian could bond on that.
> But man, if Damian ever found out about that, think he and Jon are still friends? or he'll just add Saturn Girl (and maybe some Legion members) to his list of people he despises


Glass Houses and Stones....  :Stick Out Tongue: 
If Damian does find out about SG I hope they explore how it feels to see things from the POV of his victims.

It could a step towards self reflection and understanding how far he went in TT.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Wait I just remembered. 
> Didn't Saturn Girl mind wiped Damian during that Legion of Superheroes issue, did he know about that after that issue?
> That's like how Bruce got mind wiped in Identity Crisis, Bruce and Damian could bond on that.
> But man, if Damian ever found out about that, think he and Jon are still friends? or he'll just add Saturn Girl (and maybe some Legion members) to his list of people he despises


He'll devise a contingency plan for them, but he'll still be friends with Jon

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I don't think it's a good idea to have Damian be like Jason just like it's not a good idea for Jason to share Damian's lOA/Al Ghul connections.
> 
> They shouldn't dip into each other's function's and lore since that undermines the strength of each individual IP
> 
> 
> Jason/Red Hood has his niche. Nightwing has his niche and Damian has his niche as former assassin turned hero. heir to 2 opposing dynasties trying to find acceptance and his place in the world.
> 
> Damian left the LOA of his own free will and renounced their teachings/methods even before he joined the Bats. Before he became Robin. Giving up Robin doesn't and shouldn't mean he has to default to Al Ghul/LOA.
> 
> ...


I think before he find a middle term between Al Ghul and Bat he need to do a deep deep negation of both, that I think is what is planned in this story, so I don't think he should go back for Talia, he could never do this there, I was giving a example of how Damian could follow this negation of both sides without being alone. Could be monks as I said before, it's far away of Bruce and Talia. Still can be made in a way that not remember Jason's story.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Yeah. It is still described as the main earth a number of years in the future.


(/T^T)/   </3 so no matter what he os going to became the Demon Head?

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> That didn’t really work with the last iteration of teen titans, did it?


Yes, but isn't Damian's fault, he can't save a entire work just for exist.... but a well wrote story with Damian has more chances than a well wrote story without him?
But really don't know if they would even think about a new title now.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> uuuuuuuuuuuuuggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh locking futures ah what am I annoyed about these things never matter


Right???? I still think it's ok has bad futures if there is also happy futures, so, where are my happy futures?!?!?

As I say "don't need to be canon or have many issues just be official".

----------


## Rebeca Armus

There is anyone else that wishes to see Damian's childs? Not in a deep story, just see how they would looks like/be and who would be Damian's love.
Like when Tim of future went to present and they see the new Superman for a couple of pages and after this he go way and we know it was Connor but the characters don't and we feel like "hehe".

----------


## Eckri

> There is anyone else that wishes to see Damian's childs? Not in a deep story, just see how they would looks like/be and who would be Damian's love.
> Like when Tim of future went to present and they see the new Superman for a couple of pages and after this he go way and we know it was Connor but the characters don't and we feel like "hehe".


The only iteration of Damian having a kid, that I know of, is the one from Batman Brave and Bold.

----------


## Restingvoice

> There is anyone else that wishes to see Damian's childs? Not in a deep story, just see how they would looks like/be and who would be Damian's love.
> Like when Tim of future went to present and they see the new Superman for a couple of pages and after this he go way and we know it was Connor but the characters don't and we feel like "hehe".


We know it's gonna be mixed-race party considering the girls he's attracted to
+ Emiko = Japanese-Chinese-Arabic-Caucasian
+ Raven = Chinese-Arabic-Caucasian-Demon
+ Mar'i = Chinese-Arabic-Caucasian-Tamaranean




> The only iteration of Damian having a kid, that I know of, is the one from Batman Brave and Bold.


Ooh do tell

----------


## Eckri

> We know it's gonna be mixed-race party considering the girls he's attracted to
> + Emiko = Japanese-Chinese-Arabic-Caucasian
> + Raven = Chinese-Arabic-Caucasian-Demon
> + Mar'i = Chinese-Arabic-Caucasian-Tamaranean
> 
> 
> 
> Ooh do tell


Alright, in the Batman the Brave and the bold episode "Knights of Tomorrow" in the second to the last scene of the episode, on the rooftop of future Gotham stands Damian as the new Batman with his son as Robin.

The only thing worth noting about the kid was he's ginger.  So who knows who'd he married. 

To be fair, each Robin has their preference which is just based on some hilarious jokes over the years
Dick likes Red Heads
Jason likes Tough Girls
Tim likes (I really don't know, if anyone can fill this with an accurate one please do, my guess Nice Girls?)
Damian likes Blondes

----------


## Restingvoice

> Alright, in the Batman the Brave and the bold episode "Knights of Tomorrow" in the second to the last scene of the episode, on the rooftop of future Gotham stands Damian as the new Batman with his son as Robin.
> 
> The only thing worth noting about the kid was he's ginger.  So who knows who'd he married. 
> 
> To be fair, each Robin has their preference which is just based on some hilarious jokes over the years
> Dick likes Red Heads
> Jason likes Tough Girls
> Tim likes (I really don't know, if anyone can fill this with an accurate one please do, my guess Nice Girls?)
> Damian likes Blondes


Tim is like Bruce... there's Darla the mob boss daughter, Lynx, his Catwoman, Steph, who initiates every sexual interaction, then Ariana and Tamara, the good girls

Damian likes older women

----------


## Aahz

> Tim is like Bruce... there's Darla the mob boss daughter, Lynx, his Catwoman, Steph, who initiates every sexual interaction, then Ariana and Tamara, the good girls


Dala was iirc pretty one sided from her side.

But there was also Zoanne when it comes to the good girls. (And Cassabdra Sandsmark if you want to count her).

----------


## Eckri

> Tim is like Bruce... there's Darla the mob boss daughter, Lynx, his Catwoman, Steph, who initiates every sexual interaction, then Ariana and Tamara, the good girls
> 
> Damian likes older women


When you say Tim is like Bruce I'm reminded of Dick's saying to Damian in Superman/Batman Issue 77.
"Bruce always says if a girl hits you, that means she likes you" 
So in actuality, Tim likes girls who hit him first then kisses later. Now that's funny.

----------


## Light of Justice

> The only iteration of Damian having a kid, that I know of, is the one from Batman Brave and Bold.


Didn't Damian has a son with Mar'i, Dick's daughter? His name is Tallant if I remember it correctly.

----------


## Eckri

> Didn't Damian has a son with Mar'i, Dick's daughter? His name is Tallant if I remember it correctly.


Family.jpg

A son and daughter it seems.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Alright, in the Batman the Brave and the bold episode "Knights of Tomorrow" in the second to the last scene of the episode, on the rooftop of future Gotham stands Damian as the new Batman with his son as Robin.
> 
> The only thing worth noting about the kid was he's ginger.  So who knows who'd he married. 
> 
> To be fair, each Robin has their preference which is just based on some hilarious jokes over the years
> Dick likes Red Heads
> Jason likes Tough Girls
> Tim likes (I really don't know, if anyone can fill this with an accurate one please do, my guess Nice Girls?)
> Damian likes Blondes


Didn't Jason also can be considered loves redhead? On first Outlaw he's with Kory, he also once has a thing with Barbara, and Artemis is also redhead. 
It's funny that DC once tried to pair him with Dick's lovers. Also Bruce's on Lost Days, but I choose to ignore it entirely.

----------


## Light of Justice

> When you say Tim is like Bruce I'm reminded of Dick's saying to Damian in Superman/Batman Issue 77.
> "Bruce always says if a girl hits you, that means she likes you" 
> So in actuality, Tim likes girls who hit him first then kisses later. Now that's funny.


Sigh, there's no one in Damian's family that can be role model for him about romance relationship. If I am Damian, looking that the poor boy once get stabbed because of Shawn's problem, get kidnapped by literal airhead of his father's past lover (actually Elliot with Bruce's face but my point still stand), Tam's situation in Red Robin, his parent's super complicated relationship, I will be veerrryyyy wary to start romantic relationship in my life.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Family.jpg
> 
> A son and daughter it seems.


Issue name?

----------


## Eckri

> Issue name?


Justice Society of America issue 22.

----------


## Light of Justice

> The Al Ghul's wealth dwarfs the Wayne's and most of Damian's personal wealth and assets aren't thanks to his father.
> 
> He was able to donate 2 million to the Gotham Shelter in rebirth. I doubt Bruce  gives him that much of an allowance.


about 2 million to Gotham animal shelter, that's from Showcase New Talents right? Isn't that donation from Selina's money (more accurately Penguin's money that she stole) but under Damian's name?

----------


## Light of Justice

> Justice Society of America issue 22.


Thank you  :Embarrassment:

----------


## Restingvoice

> Sigh, there's no one in Damian's family that can be role model for him about romance relationship. If I am Damian, looking that the poor boy once get stabbed because of Shawn's problem, get kidnapped by literal airhead of his father's past lover (actually Elliot with Bruce's face but my point still stand), Tam's situation in Red Robin, his parent's super complicated relationship, I will be veerrryyyy wary to start romantic relationship in my life.


He's the type who keeps saying women are distractions but gonna end up falling in love anyway

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Didn't Jason also can be considered loves redhead? On first Outlaw he's with Kory, he also once has a thing with Barbara, and Artemis is also redhead. 
> It's funny that DC once tried to pair him with Dick's lovers. Also Bruce's on Lost Days, but I choose to ignore it entirely.


I hate this, DC do this for don't need to create more important/permanent female characters for the story, recycle love interests of Batboys is weird, 1 time is ok, but why made Dick, Jason and Bruce be a couple with Barbara? This is over my limit.
Lost Days is about Barbara and Bruce thing?

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Damian likes older women


You got it (wink wink).

Don't think Damian likes Blond, I don't think he had a crush in Stephany, and the DCeased would be the only Blond Girl interest of Damian. Also, Djinn is brown.

He liking older women makes more sense to me.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> He's the type who keeps saying women are distractions but gonna end up falling in love anyway


I don't see Damian saying something like this... He had many opportunities to does and didn't.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I hate this, DC do this for don't need to create more important/permanent female characters for the story, recycle love interests of Batboys is weird, 1 time is ok, but why made Dick, Jason and Bruce be a couple with Barbara? This is over my limit.
> Lost Days is about Barbara and Bruce thing?


Worse. Jason and Talia.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Worse. Jason and Talia.


ah, yeah...... I can't decide what is the worst. @-@ But Jason didn't know about Talia and Bruce, at least, did he?

----------


## Rac7d*

> ah, yeah...... I can't decide what is the worst. @-@ But Jason didn't know about Talia and Bruce, at least, did he?


I think Jason was under age 

Even now I dont think he is 21

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I just saw Batman Brave and Bold, and look for the character you mentioned and I am deep regretted about my:

"There is anyone else that wishes to see Damian's children? Not in a deep story, just see how they would look like/be and who would be Damian's love"hehe".

I would like to see more than one second/one page with them, so one chapter, please...

I have a feeling that, don't know about Tim, but that Dick, Jason and Damian would be good parents, like that care about his childs feelings and opinions, and want to keep them close without put pressure but still wanting teaching about them past and helping them grow up. What are you guys feeling?

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I think he was 17-18, but it's not a problem in Jason's universe for me... but this + the difference of age is... hummm...

There is Dick and Seline thing too =___= and people ask me "why don't you like Seline", and I say "it's not I don't like her, I HATE her".

BATWONDER was a thing at some moment? Not that this is problematic, just reinforce my point of DC doesn't create more female important characters and the ships keep competing.

----------


## Light of Justice

> ah, yeah...... I can't decide what is the worst. @-@ But Jason didn't know about Talia and Bruce, at least, did he?




He knew at least her feeling to Bruce. And I don't think Batman's love life with Talia is a secret on Batfam.

----------


## Jackalope89

Erg. The one thing most Jason fans wished didn't happen. And thankfully seems to not be canon anymore since New52/Rebirth.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Erg. The one thing most Jason fans wished didn't happen. And thankfully seems to not be canon anymore since New52/Rebirth.


Ditto. Honestly I prefer Lost Days storyline than All-Caste. His All-Caste sword is badass, but Lost Days shows his detective work and his aggression skills better for me.
If only that panel doesn't exist....

----------


## Shen

> Worse. Jason and Talia.


God, I hated this when I started reading Jason's story.

----------


## dietrich

> about 2 million to Gotham animal shelter, that's from Showcase New Talents right? Isn't that donation from Selina's money (more accurately Penguin's money that she stole) but under Damian's name?


yeah that's the comic but I don't recall it being Selina making a donation.

Anyway there's lots of examples that show Damian has access to funds which have nothing to do with his father's wealth. The 5 million fee he paid Slade to stop hassling Maya in RSOB when Bruce lost his memory.

The crime fighting bike he bought for Colin in Gates of Gotham while Bruce was lost in time.

The scavenger hunting trip round Europe for Bruce and Alfred. A surprise so unlikely to be from Bruce.


Funding that Playhouse in London to allow Alfred to thread the boards once more in Batman and Robin Annual#1

Not to mention the extravagant gifts from Talia like that private Island and the Christmas he got a Gulf Stream or something along those lines.

I don't think Damian will need to go back to Talia for a roof just yet.

He was alone in Gotham before he was 10 and he managed during JimBats.

----------


## dietrich

On the topic of Damian's kids, well grand kids. Remember those two kids from Supersons last issue?

The boy and girl that old Jon and Damian were reading to. I bet one of them was Damian's.

----------


## Shen

> On the topic of Damian's kids, well grand kids. Remember those two kids from Supersons last issue?
> 
> The boy and girl that old Jon and Damian were reading to. I bet one of them was Damian's.


The boy looked a lot like Damian, only with brown eyes.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> He knew at least her feeling to Bruce. And I don't think Batman's love life with Talia is a secret on Batfam.


I still can't dislike their relationship, it's a totally personal opinion, maybe because Jason is always alone I just liked to see him falling in love.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> yeah that's the comic but I don't recall it being Selina making a donation.
> 
> Anyway there's lots of examples that show Damian has access to funds which have nothing to do with his father's wealth. The 5 million fee he paid Slade to stop hassling Maya in RSOB when Bruce lost his memory.
> 
> The crime fighting bike he bought for Colin in Gates of Gotham while Bruce was lost in time.
> 
> The scavenger hunting trip round Europe for Bruce and Alfred. A surprise so unlikely to be from Bruce.
> 
> 
> ...


hummmm I think DC will just ignore the money problem, like when superhero gets a cool costume without explanations of how/who made it, or infinite munition, or when other planet peoples don't have Idioma problem for communication, or where was Maya, or how a character that almost dies didn't die, or when they are totally injured but be health in next comic if it is convenient.

Also, I think Damian already has a lot of money in some place, he has a plan B.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> On the topic of Damian's kids, well grand kids. Remember those two kids from Supersons last issue?
> 
> The boy and girl that old Jon and Damian were reading to. I bet one of them was Damian's.


They both can fly and has blue eyes, I think it's suggested they are both of Jon (could be Damian's too, I just think is more possible if they are from Jon). And it was a Cube's fanfic? (I do not share). It's more like a dream/joke inside canon instead of a parallel world when it's happened.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

What if Damian learns a little of magic in this middle time? He already has some interest, Batman 666 sugest he can do magic too, and would be totally different from Talia and Bruce leagacy.

There is an artist on IG:
http://www.instagram.com/deep_in_mind1/

They does next generation with Mar'i, Malik, Maya and Jon's son. Sadly are not comic pages, or fanfics, but there is a description of the world of the artist in each ilustration.

It's nearly of what I would like to see...

----------


## Jackalope89

> I still can't dislike their relationship, it's a totally personal opinion, maybe because Jason is always alone I just liked to see him falling in love.


...






And the last one was even hinted at in pre-New52. And all those aren't even getting into the "almost there, but not quite" with Barbara Gordon, Kara (Supergirl), and even a few with Donna Troy.

----------


## Light of Justice

Explanation how Batman knows about Damian's shenanigans. And to make this matter more interesting, Superman also know and wary about the existence of secret jailer. Now I want to see Superman's reaction about Damian's sudden change of heart :Wink:

----------


## Light of Justice

Sorry this image isn't get added along. But it's pretty confusing, Djinn said that her brainwashing effect was vanished when she got jailed on purgatory. So why Atomic Skull still got amnesic? When other criminal are on their sane mind on TT 44



And also before reading latest Batman/Superman, I was completely unaware that Atomic Skull are not present on criminal group who hired Deathstroke  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the last one was even hinted at in pre-New52. And all those aren't even getting into the "almost there, but not quite" with Barbara Gordon, Kara (Supergirl), and even a few with Donna Troy.


I personally don't count any "almost there, but not quite", I actually don't know these other ships very well, but problem because they was short, wasn't it? my favorite canon couple now is Jaytemis, I almost don't like canon couples, but I just fell in love by this two, they can be cool, cute and funny, but it's going to end </3
I count if they were happy together as a couple for a time (don't need to be so long). Like, Damian and Djinn was a thing, but not a happy couple for a time, just one "almost there, but not quite".

----------


## Digifiend

> Yeah. It is still described as the main earth a number of years in the future.


Which is why Barbara was de-aged in Batman Beyond. The original cartoon was set over 40 years in the future, so it makes sense she'd have gone grey haired (if she's in her 20s in the previous Batman cartoons she'd be in her 60s or 70s in Beyond). Because 2040 is now a lot closer, Commissioner Barbara Gordon is now younger (probably in her 40s), and still a redhead.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Which is why Barbara was de-aged in Batman Beyond. The original cartoon was set over 40 years in the future, so it makes sense she'd have gone grey haired (if she's in her 20s in the previous Batman cartoons she'd be in her 60s or 70s in Beyond). Because 2040 is now a lot closer, Commissioner Barbara Gordon is now younger (probably in her 40s), and still a redhead.


Though, according to it, Dick should be having that daughter almost any time now. And right he's....

You know what, I don't want to finish that line of thought.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Though, according to it, Dick should be having that daughter almost any time now. And right he's....
> 
> You know what, I don't want to finish that line of thought.


Wait?.......  no

----------


## Restingvoice

> Though, according to it, Dick should be having that daughter almost any time now. And right he's....
> 
> You know what, I don't want to finish that line of thought.


Bea?

He's going to meet Starfire soon in Doom Metal

Then there's always Babs in between those two arcs

So it's still up in the air

I mean as long as Punchline isn't riding a brainwashed guy, that will be, what, the fourth rape?

----------


## Jackalope89

> Bea?
> 
> He's going to meet Starfire soon in Doom Metal
> 
> Then there's always Babs in between those two arcs
> 
> So it's still up in the air
> 
> I mean as long as *Punchline* isn't riding a brainwashed guy, that will be, what, the fourth rape?


...Yeah. Not "Ric's" girlfriend, and I'm not talking about Kori either. And right now, there's only one woman he's on "good terms" with.

----------


## Konja7

> Bea?
> 
> He's going to meet Starfire soon in Doom Metal
> 
> Then there's always Babs in between those two arcs
> 
> So it's still up in the air
> 
> I mean as long as Punchline isn't riding a brainwashed guy, that will be, what, the fourth rape?


In Batman Beyond, we know Barbara isn't the mother, so she isn't an option. And the daughter seems to be totaly human, so Srarfire isn't an option either.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> ...Yeah. Not "Ric's" girlfriend, and I'm not talking about Kori either. And right now, there's only one woman he's on "good terms" with.


I am lost. What is this theory?

----------


## Eckri

> Bea?
> 
> 
> I mean as long as Punchline isn't riding a brainwashed guy, that will be, what, the fourth rape?


Fourth? Who's third?
There was Tarantula in that one issue.
Harley Quinn in the animated movie.
Who's the third?

----------


## Konja7

> Fourth? Who's third?
> There was Tarantula in that one issue.
> Harley Quinn in the animated movie.
> Who's the third?


Mirage was the first to rape Dick in New Teen Titans. She took Starfire appearance and have sex with Dick in that way.

Tarantula is the second. This was more violent.

I don't know who is the third.


I'm not so sure Harley Quinn raped Dick in the animated movie. It seems consensual enough from both parts.

----------


## redmax99

> I am lost. What is this theory?


punchline.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I didn't know any of this things, errrr. 
I was revolted just by the comic when a no remember name woman slap Dick's butt.
So are you talking about Dick having a child with Punchline?

----------


## Jackalope89

> I didn't know any of this things, errrr. 
> I was revolted just by the comic when a no remember name woman slap Dick's butt.
> So are you talking about Dick having a child with Punchline?


Sadly, yes.

----------


## Konja7

> Sadly, yes.


That won't be happening, it is implied the mother of Dick's daughter in Batman Beyond was a good person.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> That won't be happening, it is implied the mother of Dick's daughter in Batman Beyond was a good person.


@__@ still don't make me forgive all rape thing.
Is it a thing in DC universe? Batman was drugged by Talia in movie, but not in comics, so I thought it was a unique situation.
So in Batman Beyond Mar'i doesn't exist?

----------


## Eckri

> @__@ still don't make me forgive all rape thing.
> Is it a thing in DC universe? Batman was drugged by Talia in movie, but not in comics, so I thought it was a unique situation.
> So in Batman Beyond Mar'i doesn't exist?


Batman drugged by Talia is still the go to canon in current comics, before that it was consensual but the main origin is that Talia drugged Bruce.
Outside of Kingdom Come, Mar'i Grayson never made another appearance in comics (to my knowledge) so no Mar'i does not exist.

----------


## Jackalope89

> @__@ still don't make me forgive all rape thing.
> Is it a thing in DC universe? Batman was drugged by Talia in movie, but not in comics, so I thought it was a unique situation.
> So in Batman Beyond Mar'i doesn't exist?


Honestly, the consensual story was supposed to be back in canon (but a certain author whiffed on that one). And honestly, could do without rape as a whole in regards to this sort of thing. Its either treated like a joke, has a lot of victim blaming, or part of a bigger whole to fridge a character. Honestly, the only time it "worked", so to speak, was when Jason "let" the serial rapist with diplomatic immunity fall to his death.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Mirage was the first to rape Dick in New Teen Titans. She took Starfire appearance and have sex with Dick in that way.
> 
> Tarantula is the second. This was more violent.
> 
> I don't know who is the third.
> 
> 
> I'm not so sure Harley Quinn raped Dick in the animated movie. It seems consensual enough from both parts.


Liu, his first. He was 16 turning 17, she's an older woman who used him to get into WayneTech.

----------


## Konja7

> Liu, his first. He was 16 turning 17, she's an older woman who used him to get into WayneTech.


When Liu appears?

It was before or after the Nightwing Annual where it is said that Starfire was the first.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Mirage was the first to rape Dick in New Teen Titans. She took Starfire appearance and have sex with Dick in that way.
> 
> Tarantula is the second. This was more violent.
> 
> I don't know who is the third.
> 
> 
> I'm not so sure Harley Quinn raped Dick in the animated movie. It seems consensual enough from both parts.


A woman tricked him when he was underage to pump information out of him, that appeared to be his first time

----------


## Rac7d*

> That won't be happening, it is implied the mother of Dick's daughter in Batman Beyond was a good person.


Jason thinks jokers daughter is a good person

----------


## WonderNight

> That won't be happening, it is implied the mother of Dick's daughter in Batman Beyond was a good person.


Well punchline is only in her early 20s so who knows how she'd be in another 20 years.

I still would like zatanna to be her mother especially with her as batwoman. She doesn't need powers but having a strong connection to the super natural fits batwoman. Plus some random as dicks baby mama. Boring.

----------


## Eckri

> Well punchline is only in her early 20s so who knows how she'd be in another 20 years.
> 
> I still would like zatanna to be her mother especially with her as batwoman. She doesn't need powers but having a strong connection to the super natural fits batwoman. Plus some random as dicks baby mama. Boring.


Would have worked if, Zatanna wasn't in the same age range as Bruce and one his best friends before becoming Batman. 
The age gap is like Bruce and Barbara, she's old enough to be Dick's aunt.

----------


## Restingvoice

> When Liu appears?
> 
> It was before or after the Nightwing Annual where it is said that Starfire was the first.


Nightwing Lost Year. After. 2 months later

----------


## Fergus

> Batman drugged by Talia is still the go to canon in current comics, before that it was consensual but the main origin is that Talia drugged Bruce.
> Outside of Kingdom Come, Mar'i Grayson never made another appearance in comics (to my knowledge) so no Mar'i does not exist.


The rape or drugging isn't canon in the current comics. it was retconed by by Morrison  [In Batman postFlashpoint] and Tomasi [New 52 Batman and Robin Robin Rises]

FYI Damian conception isn't based on Birth of the Demon.

----------


## adrikito

Now that he lost the Robin role I would like see Damian starting a NEW LIFE in one city without heroes sharing living in one apartment. 

I like FLAMEBIRD but.. If he is not interested in Batman bothering him I think that his new superhero name should be different.

But I think that I will not be lucky here.  :Frown:

----------


## Rac7d*

> Now that he lost the Robin role I would like see Damian starting a NEW LIFE in one city without heroes sharing living in one apartment. 
> 
> I like FLAMEBIRD but.. If he is not interested in Batman bothering him I think that his new superhero name should be different.
> 
> But I think that I will not be lucky here.


It will be a year or two before that new identity comes I am coming around to it, its gonna put a lot of pressure on time since Damian is going to have to grow up a little before this emerges and he just backtracked

----------


## adrikito

I will miss him if DC needs time to prepare this.

Anyway.. I can see them thinking that maybe the BEST DECISION was make him continue as Robin and resolve his problems with batman in few months.. Especially if they don´t have any NEW ROBIN in mind..

If there is a new Robin I think that it should be a GIRL and be Robin during some years.. Not one Short time like Steph.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Batman drugged by Talia is still the go to canon in current comics, before that it was consensual but the main origin is that Talia drugged Bruce.
> Outside of Kingdom Come, Mar'i Grayson never made another appearance in comics (to my knowledge) so no Mar'i does not exist.


Are you sure? When it was showed up?

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> The rape or drugging isn't canon in the current comics. it was retconed by by Morrison  [In Batman postFlashpoint] and Tomasi [New 52 Batman and Robin Robin Rises]
> 
> FYI Damian conception isn't based on Birth of the Demon.


Great. Love it. Keep it.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

No one thinks Damian learning magic is a nice idea?
No Talia, no Bruce, faraway and still something he likes.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I will miss him if DC needs time to prepare this.
> 
> Anyway.. I can see them thinking that maybe the BEST DECISION was make him continue as Robin and resolve his problems with batman in few months.. Especially if they don´t have any NEW ROBIN in mind..
> 
> If there is a new Robin I think that it should be a GIRL and be Robin during some years.. Not one Short time like Steph.


I doubt they will make new character for Robin title. Some writers already expressing their complain of too much Batfam characters.

----------


## Restingvoice

> No one thinks Damian learning magic is a nice idea?
> No Talia, no Bruce, faraway and still something he likes.


I like it
from who
Zatanna is family limited
don't trust Constantine 
Fate depends on the helmet
I don't know how Klarion works
Xanadu?

----------


## Light of Justice

> No one thinks Damian learning magic is a nice idea?
> No Talia, no Bruce, faraway and still something he likes.


I think that's good idea. After all Batman666 future deals with magic when he's 14, and Book of Damned is still on his possession.

----------


## adrikito

> I doubt they will make new character for Robin title. Some writers already expressing their complain of too much Batfam characters.


I can understand these writers.. 

Surprised to see that they still create characters like Duke, Harper, Gotham Girl.. etc..

They have a lot of OLD ONES to use.. Like Steph or Cass for example or the old robins, or huntress.. *Why create more? To say that you created Someone from the Batfamily?* 

Nonsense.. Make your BEST effort when you are in one BATCOMIC and the fans will remember you if you make one good work.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I like it
> from who
> Zatanna is family limited
> don't trust Constantine 
> Fate depends on the helmet
> I don't know how Klarion works
> Xanadu?


Damian once used Klarion wands and he may or may not sell his soul for it. Why you don't trust Constantine? I've only known Constantine from Dceased series and Apokalips War and he's kinda okay for me

----------


## Shadow1322

> I can understand these writers.. 
> 
> Surprised to see that they still create characters like Duke, Harper, Gotham Girl.. etc..
> 
> They have a lot of OLD ONES to use.. Like Steph or Cass for example or the old robins, or huntress.. *Why create more? To say that you created Someone from the Batfamily?* 
> 
> Nonsense.. Make your BEST effort when you are in one BATCOMIC and the fans will remember you if you make one good work.


Yet Now that he lost the Robin role I would like see Damian starting a NEW LIFE in one city without heroes sharing living in one apartment.

Is what you believe is the best choice for Damian development never mind that Damian is still linked to Bruce and the other even with his.acton at the moment or that starting a NEW LIFE in one city without heroes sharing living in one apartment. Would completely removed him from any more comic so maybe you don't know how these writer as well you believe

Nonsense.. Make your BEST effort when you are in one BATCOMIC and the fans will remember you if you make one good work

So that fan of the characters you like to be clear

Also why are you act like Duke is unpopular with fan when i see the opposite
They have a lot of OLD ONES to use.. Like Steph or Cass for example or the old robins, or huntress.. Why create more? To say that you created Someone from the Batfamily?

And also I find it funny you bring up this as this got you. Yes nobody say not use the old characters but less you blind this post is central on Damian but also are you really say only way make old characters work is to muck up character like duke or Damian and to take the roles

----------


## adrikito

I only said something what I would like with Damian.. Of course that this is not possible. They will make him Robin again.

That would be TEMPORAL.. The only that interests him is avoid BRUCE.. If Dick recovers his memory soon I am sure that he will be HAPPY to see him and the same with other batfamily members..


After Quote me you added the same words in the comment before your answers.. It was confusing read it after the quote again.  :Confused:   :Confused: 

*
I AM NOT INSULTING THESE CHARACTERS. Answering to what LIGHT OF JUSTICE SAID. But you saw it in the WORST POSSIBLE WAY.*




> Some writers already expressing their complain of too much Batfam characters.


I only said that the batfamily was too big before *N52* and characters that joined after that.. For this his name was here. That DC should control a little when they add new characters. Especially in the batfamily case.

----------


## Shadow1322

I only said something what I would like with Damian.. Of course that this is not possible. They will make him Robin again.

I understand that and I was only point out that if Damian was remove not only Bruce but the other batfamily members with no major hero to step in to he back into the fold the be no story of in the comic. 


That would be TEMPORAL.. The only that interests him is avoid BRUCE.. 

I like to agree but can you actually say for sure  and not sure what actually point is with Damian actions so I just agree for time being.

But your maybe right about Dick going to see Damian but Tim :Confused: 

After Quote me you added the same words in the comment before your answers.. It was confusing read it after the quote again. 

Sorry it was more to.help me keep track of the point I replaying to then anything else.

I AM NOT INSULTING THESE CHARACTERS. Answering to what LIGHT OF JUSTICE SAID. But you saw it in the WORST POSSIBLE WAY.



Also again sorry more use people say the old characters should be used more as way as attack on the new characters.
But truthful with amount of time that tim  fan push this type argument and trying push misinformation. It hard to tell at time
I only said that the batfamily was too big before N52 and characters that joined after that.. For this his name was here. That DC should control a little when they add new characters. Especially in the batfamily case.

Yes probably but I feel.I bit bias too give full agreement as two.favourite character happen because of lack of control

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I like it
> from who
> Zatanna is family limited
> don't trust Constantine 
> Fate depends on the helmet
> I don't know how Klarion works
> Xanadu?


There are so many characters, I needed to search for 3 of them.

I am already liking Klarion possibility, he seems young, Damian would havs a funny but also a dark dynamic with Him (*w*) They could support each other too.
Xanadu is mysterious, I would like it too if don't end in Damian and her having sex u-u

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I can understand these writers.. 
> 
> Surprised to see that they still create characters like Duke, Harper, Gotham Girl.. etc..
> 
> They have a lot of OLD ONES to use.. Like Steph or Cass for example or the old robins, or huntress.. *Why create more? To say that you created Someone from the Batfamily?* 
> 
> Nonsense.. Make your BEST effort when you are in one BATCOMIC and the fans will remember you if you make one good work.


just cheking, Gotham Girl isn't from Batman Flash Point? She will probably never shows up again, right?

----------


## Jackalope89

> just cheking, Gotham Girl isn't from Batman Flash Point? She will probably never shows up again, right?


Gotham Girl is from Batman Rebirth, and thus far, only appeared in King's run of the title.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I didn't get all the conversation up.

But talking about Batfamily being big. Everybody don't think a little "this character isn't necessary, they could take out so my favorite character would appears more"?
I fell many peoples think this about Damian x Tim.
I.... would take out: stephany, cass, Batwoman, Harper. And have more: Damian, Dick, Jason, Duke, Bruce, Alfred (not in solo but as Batfamily)

I know isn't going happen, make no much sense and is kind unfair, but don't we all have this little wish?

About the new Robin: Stephany looks a logic choice for me; Cass looks a pretty interesting option to me.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Damian once used Klarion wands and he may or may not sell his soul for it. Why you don't trust Constantine? I've only known Constantine from Dceased series and Apokalips War and he's kinda okay for me


There was a story explaining how Damian got his wands?

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Gotham Girl is from Batman Rebirth, and thus far, only appeared in King's run of the title.


In this case, make a new character was the best choice u.u

----------


## Jackalope89

> I didn't get all the conversation up.
> 
> But talking about Batfamily being big. Everybody don't think a little "this character isn't necessary, they could take out so my favorite character would appears more"?
> I fell many peoples think this about Damian x Tim.
> I.... would take out: stephany, cass, Batwoman, Harper. And have more: Damian, Dick, Jason, Duke, Bruce, Alfred (not in solo but as Batfamily)
> 
> I know isn't going happen, make no much sense and is kind unfair, but don't we all have this little wish?
> 
> About the new Robin: Stephany looks a logic choice for me; Cass looks a pretty interesting option to me.


Steph and Cass? Er, before jumping the gun, I highly recommend reading their Batgirl runs. Some really good stuff there. Batwoman is like a less sociopathic (but still stoic) version of Batman.

----------


## Shadow1322

But talking about Batfamily being big. Everybody don't think a little "this character isn't necessary, they could take out so my favorite character would appears more"?
I fell many peoples think this about Damian x Tim.
I.... would take out: stephany, cass, Batwoman, Harper. And have more: Damian, Dick, Jason, Duke, Bruce, Alfred (not in solo but as Batfamily)

The problem with that is could Damian, Dick, Jason, Duke, Bruce, Alfred have been better development without the rest of characters and if they forced in one book can the the writer deal with  six characters arc that need to at time be independent and Marge at different point of different continuously storyline.


About the new Robin: 

Can dc at least fix the bad writing with Damian first and end his development and arc as robin before as thinking about a new robin

----------


## Restingvoice

> There are so many characters, I needed to search for 3 of them.
> 
> I am already liking Klarion possibility, he seems young, Damian would havs a funny but also a dark dynamic with Him (*w*) They could support each other too.
> Xanadu is mysterious, I would like it too if don't end in Damian and her having sex u-u


lol don't worry. Xanadu is like Ra's age.




> Damian once used Klarion wands and he may or may not sell his soul for it. Why you don't trust Constantine? I've only known Constantine from Dceased series and Apokalips War and he's kinda okay for me


He always screws up his apprentices or anyone working with him. Since he tricks or has a debt to a lot of demons, he used them as payment or distraction so the demons get to them first and not him.

----------


## Rac7d*

> lol don't worry. Xanadu is like Ra's age.
> 
> 
> 
> He always screws up his apprentices or anyone working with him. Since he tricks or has a debt to a lot of demons, he used them as payment or distraction so the demons get to them first and not him.


He could never do that to Batmans kids tho

----------


## Sergard

> He could never do that to Batmans kids tho


John Constantine: "Challenge accepted."  :Cool:

----------


## Blue22

I know capes are like....a Robin costume staple. But MAN he looks so much better without it.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Steph and Cass? Er, before jumping the gun, I highly recommend reading their Batgirl runs. Some really good stuff there. Batwoman is like a less sociopathic (but still stoic) version of Batman.


Ah, I know they are... nice, I just didn't read nothing and when I see them in any place I think about how I don't want to know them.
But if you think there is a nice short that you think I could like, I would enjoy ^u^
I saw Damian and Steph's story, liked it.

But is my stubborn logic. When I saw the cover with Batman, Superman, Super Boy and Robin I immediately hated Jon for supposing he is going to take more attention than a character that I prefer (that is Damian). So half-year later someone told me to read and I felt in love by Super Sons.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> But talking about Batfamily being big. Everybody don't think a little "this character isn't necessary, they could take out so my favorite character would appears more"?
> I fell many peoples think this about Damian x Tim.
> I.... would take out: stephany, cass, Batwoman, Harper. And have more: Damian, Dick, Jason, Duke, Bruce, Alfred (not in solo but as Batfamily)
> 
> The problem with that is could Damian, Dick, Jason, Duke, Bruce, Alfred have been better development without the rest of characters and if they forced in one book can the the writer deal with  six characters arc that need to at time be independent and Marge at different point of different continuously storyline.


So Don't need to be they all together. I enjoy Alfred relationship with Jason and Damian, so would be like the one chapter when Bruce, Clark, Selina and Louis have a date, 1 entire chapter slice of life. This is a thing I really miss in DC, Marvel has more ordinary moments. Would be more sad when Alfred died too. It's a point that anime are stronger. You fall deeeeeep in love by a character and this character has someone that is deeeeeep important for him. So when Jiraya died you fell your pain and your favorite character's pain.
I saw some people crying in Avengers final movie X-D think they got this sensation.

----------


## Shadow1322

So Don't need to be they all together. I enjoy Alfred relationship with Jason and Damian, so would be like the one chapter when Bruce, Clark, Selina and Louis have a date, 1 entire chapter slice of life

First please no God 
Batman  the slice of life manga  :Frown: 

These idea are .... Bad kind of as these slower moment are need to help give character space and such but just like fullmetal alchemist you can't have entire story full of these moment.

It's a point that anime are stronger. 

No manga and anime are stronger  in a way because they have end point so don't need worry about the thing that D.C.  or Marvel Comic has to in the most basic of terms.

So when Jiraya died you fell your pain and your favorite character's pain.

Actually wait. I my point back as they obviously and judge this point story like that was poorly writing and don't set up before had Alfred died  important to the event but there are moment like Jiraya died in comic

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> So Don't need to be they all together. I enjoy Alfred relationship with Jason and Damian, so would be like the one chapter when Bruce, Clark, Selina and Louis have a date, 1 entire chapter slice of life
> 
> First please no God 
> Batman  the slice of life manga 
> 
> These idea are .... Bad kind of as these slower moment are need to help give character space and such but just like fullmetal alchemist you can't have entire story full of these moment.
> 
> It's a point that anime are stronger. 
> 
> ...


No like a slice-of-life manga, more like spider-man new movie, or Super Sons in that Christmas special. 

I just think this makes the hero moments more impressed and characters's feelings more beautiful.

Like the scenes when Bruce and Jason sleep in the couch, or eat hamburguers together, or take that picture with Bruce smiling.

And this:



It's a personal taste.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Contrast. 
If there is funny moments, cute moments, cool moments, sad moments and dark moments, one make the other better. Like when there is the always serious character, but something happens and he become more kind in a moment, or a happy character like Dick has a dark fase, or a character that is not so strong makes a big decision that is suddenly cool.
Loki is kind this. Love it.
In the other side I like a consistent universe, because make fun was not going to work for everybody/everstory (watchman is this),  but in Batfamily case I like it. Didn't works with Bruce and Selina doing couple yoga when Gotham was chaotic... but meh.

Maybe because this I like Damian, he can be consistent having all this emotions.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> lol don't worry. Xanadu is like Ra's age.
> 
> He always screws up his apprentices or anyone working with him. Since he tricks or has a debt to a lot of demons, he used them as payment or distraction so the demons get to them first and not him.


*I worry..... =___= the rape thing you guys talked about made me paranoid.

----------


## Shadow1322

No like a slice-of-life manga, more like spider-man new movie, or Super Sons in that Christmas special.

I just think this makes the hero moments more impressed and characters's feelings more beautiful.

Like the scenes when Bruce and Jason sleep in the couch, or eat hamburguers together, or take that picture with Bruce smiling.

Oh  that more sense yes but it more work as side story in between main comic that fit into the event but yes I understand now


Maybe because this I like Damian, he can be consistent having all this emotions.

I wish more people would try see that.


In the other side I like a consistent universe, because make fun was not going to work for

I don't really think with how the comic are written at moment that is possible on a while maybe a small group but when big event happen I don't think consistent universe, is possible anymore.


If there is funny moments, cute moments, cool moments, sad moments and dark moments, one make the other better. ?

The lack of these or some of these is more down to idea that in barman story you need to have cool moments, sad moments, dark moments and you get my point you.may get other moments but these central idea that writer build around

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> No like a slice-of-life manga, more like spider-man new movie, or Super Sons in that Christmas special.
> 
> I just think this makes the hero moments more impressed and characters's feelings more beautiful.
> 
> Like the scenes when Bruce and Jason sleep in the couch, or eat hamburguers together, or take that picture with Bruce smiling.
> 
> Oh  that more sense yes but it more work as side story in between main comic that fit into the event but yes I understand now
> 
> 
> ...


I really can't imagine how hard is keep a character of 80 years constant, not repetitive, actualized, loyal for the original idea, popular, needing to do reboots, trying to not do reboots etc.
But contradictions and holes in the story are so annoying to read :/ Batman is better being dark alone, but as a family, it's not convincing to read, broke the argument of he being alone. I also hate when he says "I have no parents" "no family" "I am alone" "I work alone" staying literally in front of Alfred, Robins, Superman, and many other characters.

----------


## Shadow1322

Batman is better being dark alone, but as a family, it's not convincing to read, broke the argument of he being alone

Except the character gut exist and that his point going from a dark point to find family and moving on while still being able telling dark/horror  and teach the younger characters so I am.sure where the problem like with batman and I not touch Bruce as father 

I really can't imagine how hard is keep a character of 80 years constant, not repetitive, actualized, loyal for the original idea

You actually read the original story there ... Emm  different let say or to I guess u should say I find it funny that people try batman as if he had one central development like Naruto or Luke

----------


## Rebeca Armus

*You actually read the original story there ... Emm different let say or to I guess u should say I find it funny that people try batman as if he had one central development like Naruto or Luke*

What do you mean?

----------


## Shadow1322

I guess what I mean is that batman in 1940 is completely different both in tone and story that are told from even from 1960 never mind 1980 or onward. Heck. For all different that exists in 1970 and 2015 comics of Captain Marvel that much closer then the 1940 Captain Marvel

So contradictions and holes in the story are so annoying to read : are to be expected

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I guess what I mean is that batman in 1940 is completely different both in tone and story that are told from even from 1960 never mind 1980 or onward. Heck. For all different that exists in 1970 and 2015 comics of Captain Marvel that much closer then the 1940 Captain Marvel
> 
> So contradictions and holes in the story are so annoying to read : are to be expected


Agree, but, for example, how Jason accepted Alfred's death was just tasteless. 
Barbara's reaction, Dick's reaction, Bruce's reaction,  Damian's reaction are convinced, and Jason: meeehhh..
Reboot exist for big changes. Don't like all them, but at least crazy changes makes sense.
Like Kon, if they change his look, personality, and origin in the middle of the comics would make no sense, but after a reboot: ok, possible, believable.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Oh! There is a amazing phrase about writing fiction: people can believe in something impossible, but not in something improbable. OOC is like it.

----------


## Light of Justice

> lol don't worry. Xanadu is like Ra's age.


Djinn is waayy past Ra's age but it didn't stop DC to make her almost kissed Damian and Damian has a feeling for her. His type is older woman after all. And DC has a bad rep about handling Robins love life.




> He always screws up his apprentices or anyone working with him. Since he tricks or has a debt to a lot of demons, he used them as payment or distraction so the demons get to them first and not him.


As if Damian will get screwed by someone who will use him as payment or distraction. Or at least get screwed more than he already is. That's basically what Robin are made for (City of Bane storyline is one of the example). Forget Constantine uses him as payment for demons, he will make bargain to demons himself.

Note : his bargain history with demon consist of a head for a magic lantern. Granted, both lantern and head belongs to Damian in the end, so it's more like robbery (or gambling?) than fair trade, but my point still stand. Also he has a knack to treat his own soul like a free real estate so....... 
Yeah, I see your point. Staying under Constantine will be bad for his health.

----------


## Light of Justice

> There was a story explaining how Damian got his wands?


I don't think so.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

*There was a story explaining how Damian got his wands?*



> I don't think so.


=_=

----------


## Light of Justice

> *There was a story explaining how Damian got his wands?*
> 
> 
> =_=


Well, you know how King works. We have full issue for debate about yoga beach and where Selina and Bruce first meeting, but nope, not for Klarion's wand explanation.
That man has interesting priorities.

----------


## Korath

Teen Titans seemed to imply that Damian got his wand from Elias, if I remember right.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Djinn is waayy past Ra's age but it didn't stop DC to make her almost kissed Damian and Damian has a feeling for her. His type is older woman after all. And DC has a bad rep about handling Robins love life.


Yes, but she's the same age visually. It's like vampire romance. It's okay to date an immortal if they're hot and/or the same age as the protagonist.

----------


## dietrich

https://comicbook.com/gaming/news/go...e-batman-role/

The developers explain why Tim was their choice for Robin.

It should be clear since this game has been in development for some time but it had nothing to do with the comics.

----------


## Morgoth

> https://comicbook.com/gaming/news/go...e-batman-role/
> 
> The developers explain why Tim was their choice for Robin.
> 
> It should be clear since this game has been in development for some time but it had nothing to do with the comics.


I think he'll appear, just later. DLC (it's actually big title for DLC - Son of Batman), sequel, or during the plot of this game. Given their idea, it would be inconvenient to introduce him now, because all focus would be on him. And he needs a proper introduction anyway.

----------


## dietrich

> I think he'll appear, just later. DLC (it's actually big title for DLC - Son of Batman), sequel, or during the plot of this game. Given their idea, it would be inconvenient to introduce him now, because all focus would be on him. And he needs a proper introduction anyway.


More than likely he'll be introduced later in a different game. Hoe can he be a DLC when Tim is wearing his clothes and looks like him?

I suppose A Robin with Katana's but I think more than likely Damian won't appear since he's already in Injustice and WB is already considering him for his own game.

Thinking about it, It makes sense that Tim should be in this even just in the interest of fairness. Shame they didn't include guys like Duke or Luke.

They have unique fighting styles and would have added much needed diversity and colour to a very pale line up

----------


## dietrich

> I think he'll appear, just later. DLC (it's actually big title for DLC - Son of Batman), sequel, or during the plot of this game. Given their idea, it would be inconvenient to introduce him now, because all focus would be on him. And he needs a proper introduction anyway.


Don't think he'll be in this and don't mind if he's not. I'm just curious to find out more about his future in comics. I need to know what's going to happen in Tec.
It feels like we went from lots of Damian content to suddenly non at a time when there was lots of stuff for other Robin fans. Even DCeased went silent.

----------


## Morgoth

I don't think suit is a big deal, they can make another desigh or just do the similar, it's not that hard. But there's no way he won't appear in the future.
I'm annoyed that we still don't know anything about Injustice 3. 



> It feels like we went from lots of Damian content to suddenly non at a time when there was lots of stuff for other Robin fans. Even DCeased went silent.


We'll find out at October, there should also be solicits for January. And solicits for December probably will let us know, what's going on with 'Tec storyline.
But for now, the only hope for a stable amount of content with him is Tomasi. If he does not return him to Batfamily, he may disappear somewhere for a while, unless he is given a solo series. Comics will obviously be cut there.

----------


## Shadow1322

> https://comicbook.com/gaming/news/go...e-batman-role/
> 
> The developers explain why Tim was their choice for Robin.
> 
> It should be clear since this game has been in development for some time but it had nothing to do with the comics.


it had nothing to do with the comics
None of rockstar game do but I thought that obvious 


because all focus would be on him. And he needs a proper introduction anyway.

Yes but in way it would not give ammo to set group of Damian was involved  and that probably still be true if he was there but unplayable

Thinking about it, It makes sense that Tim should be in this even just in the interest of fairness. 

Going need to explain that as placing fairness next to Tim after dc needs good argument

----------


## Shadow1322

It feels like we went from lots of Damian content to suddenly non at a time when there was lots of stuff for other Robin fans. Even DCeased went silent.

So that bad for Damian :Confused:

----------


## Restingvoice

When's the first time you got annoyed by what happened to Damian and how would you change it?

----------


## Eckri

> When's the first time you got annoyed by what happened to Damian and how would you change it?


Something that happened to Damian?
Definitely has got to be the fact that writers often forget that he has friends besides Dick and Jon.
I'd want Damian have some friends again.
Collin Wilkes
Stephanie Brown
Maya Ducard
Soren
Maps

I'd want Damian to have his own cast of friends for supporting characters, seems like he's portrayed as a lone wolf anti social now aways, which is true about the anti-social part but c'mon. The kid did have friends.

----------


## Morgoth

Maybe Tomasi eventually will bring back his supportive cast, among the authors, he is still one of the few who is somehow interested in Damian having them. Maybe Maya will appear at some point. In theory, Bruce could call her in to help bring Damian to his senses.
But again, I assume it's just Tomasi, who is interested in using them. It's just like with Kathy. The rest either want to add their own characters, or none at all, because they believe that Damian should be alone.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Something that happened to Damian?
> Definitely has got to be the fact that writers often forget that he has friends besides Dick and Jon.
> I'd want Damian have some friends again.
> Collin Wilkes
> Stephanie Brown
> Maya Ducard
> Soren
> Maps
> 
> I'd want Damian to have his own cast of friends for supporting characters, seems like he's portrayed as a lone wolf anti-social now aways, which is true about the anti-social part but c'mon. The kid did have friends.


Colin knew Damian's identity. Would Bruce approve of him, his powers, and their friendship when he finds out? Would Damian tell him?
Stephanie if things continue the way they were would still be Batgirl. Even if Babs back to Batgirl and she's Spoiler, she'll be there in Batman Inc when Damian died and she'll be among the Robins that go to Apokolips to retrieve his body.
The reason Damian kidnapped the TT was that he's lonely. If all those people were on his birthday would he have joined the Titans?




> Maybe Tomasi eventually will bring back his supportive cast, among the authors, he is still one of the few who is somehow interested in Damian having them. Maybe Maya will appear at some point. In theory, Bruce could call her in to help bring Damian to his senses.
> But again, I assume it's just Tomasi, who is interested in using them. It's just like with Kathy. The rest either want to add their own characters or none at all because they believe that Damian should be alone.


Tomasi brought back Maya for the intro to Super Sons even after she's forgotten in TT so that's probable. The others not sure. Only Dustin Nguyen used Colin. Stephanie is up to Tynion.

----------


## Eckri

> Colin knew Damian's identity. Would Bruce approve of him, his powers, and their friendship when he finds out? Would Damian tell him?
> Stephanie if things continue the way they were would still be Batgirl. Even if Babs back to Batgirl and she's Spoiler, she'll be there in Batman Inc when Damian died and she'll be among the Robins that go to Apokolips to retrieve his body.
> The reason Damian kidnapped the TT was that he's lonely. If all those people were on his birthday would he have joined the Titans?


Collins? The character has abandonment issues, translating into a good storyline where he and Damian would bond, if they developed his character further before he could have been the de facto Damian's best friend. Collins seems like guy who'd stick by his best friend through thick and thin, and call him out. His powers? he and Damian could relate about having control, Damian the urge to be brutal and Collin for his powers. 

Bruce would approve of Collins, seeing the kid having some abandonment issues and Damian having some zero friends. Plus from the issues he's in, he seems to a good kid at heart, so he'll likely be approved by Bat Dad.

Since Jon's gone, unlikely to be back soon, hope they bring back Collins. And might see the reaction that Damian replaced Jon as BFF just for the laughs. 
I remember seeing a funny fan pic of Jon reacting to Damian being best friends now with Collins, made be laugh.

Stephanie really should have been Damian's friend after Flashpoint, I miss their arguments. She's the third person in the Batfamily who has a friendly relationship with Damian.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> When's the first time you got annoyed by what happened to Damian and how would you change it?


The new TT team... I couldn't like the cast.

About his birthday,  we can assume Dick, Tim, Bruce and Alfred know the date, but I don't think other characters knew. I also can't imagine Damian inviting other peoples. Maybe Jon, but he is from after Damian's 13.
I think he just wanted Bruce there.

*wasn't Colin erased after the reboot?

----------


## Light of Justice

> Something that happened to Damian?
> Definitely has got to be the fact that writers often forget that he has friends besides Dick and Jon.
> I'd want Damian have some friends again.
> Collin Wilkes
> Stephanie Brown
> Maya Ducard
> Soren
> Maps
> 
> I'd want Damian to have his own cast of friends for supporting characters, seems like he's portrayed as a lone wolf anti social now aways, which is true about the anti-social part but c'mon. The kid did have friends.


Portrayed as lone wolf anti-social is some kind of Wayne curse. I already give up on Colin, Maya, Maps, and Sure because they unfortunately don't have strong background to maintain their existence, but DC's treatment about Damian's relationship with the rest of his family is just plain awful, almost as bad as Bruce's.

Steph, has great dynamic with Damian on her Batgirl run, forgotten after reboot. Cass, they trust each other on Gates of Gotham, but on Tynion's Tec Damian seems to forget about her, complained about her entering his room without permission, which is understandable because honestly, who will not get uncomfortable if someone on opposite gender, family or not, just entered your room on night without permission? If they write a boy carelessly entered a girl's room, the girl complained about it but the boy doesn't seem to listen, then she touched him a little to make the boy listened to her but the boy flipped the girl to ground instead, there will be riot from fans yelling violation of privacy and man supremacy. But if the role reversed and Damian is the boy, the response is "Damian acting like a brat, he deserved it" "Cass put that annoying kid on place" "It should be recorded". I don't blame Cass for that, in character she will know that her action makes Damian uncomfortable, but the writer just had to pull that scene for what? Declaring Cass superiority against blood son? Duke, they have good potential relationship in the end of Robin War, but of course on the first page of the first issue of Batman and The Signal, Damian antagonized Duke and refused his presence on the family. Jason, TT annual and Leviathan. Tim, actually I like what King did to Tim and Damian on Batman #76, if only he can pull off his head from BatCat for a second.. Dick, Ric. Alfred, his last word to Damian is him resembling Ra's Al Ghul, his last word that Damian heard is Alfred begged to not be killed in front of Damian. Jon, age up and baby Hitler (he's not family but close enough with Damian). Bruce, either estranged or conflicts, with Damian as the aggressive one.  

I don't get it, why they adamant to make both Damian and Bruce relationship with the rest of Batfam and with each other so divisive and very harmful to their character? Is lone wolf brooding Wayne some kind of DC's personal kink or something?

By the way, that's my answer to @Restingvoice question about getting annoyed with what happened to Damian. How you would change it? Let them have a good healthy relationship DC for God's sake. They didn't have to be Mr. and Young Mr. Loving Family, but how about not make them Mr. and Young Mr. Punching Family?

----------


## Light of Justice

> It feels like we went from lots of Damian content to suddenly non at a time when there was lots of stuff for other Robin fans. Even DCeased went silent.
> 
> So that bad for Damian


Of course it's bad for Damian, character existence is depend on media exposure after all. And definitely that's bad for Damian fans, because you know, we want Damian, we don't get Damian.

----------


## Shadow1322

> Of course it's bad for Damian, character existence is depend on media exposure after all. And definitely that's bad for Damian fans, because you know, we want Damian, we don't get Damian.


Not exactly what I mean but I get you point so it still unclear what going to happen to Damian and Yes I agree it be nice to know if there  more comic with Damian down line but how can he be involved if he cut himself off from the bat family

----------


## Digifiend

> More than likely he'll be introduced later in a different game. Hoe can he be a DLC when Tim is wearing his clothes and looks like him?
> 
> I suppose A Robin with Katana's but I think more than likely Damian won't appear since he's already in Injustice and WB is already considering him for his own game.
> 
> Thinking about it, It makes sense that Tim should be in this even just in the interest of fairness. Shame they didn't include guys like Duke or Luke.
> 
> They have unique fighting styles and would have added much needed diversity and colour to a very pale line up


I can see other characters being added as DLC, Signal, Batwoman, Orphan and Batwing all make sense.

----------


## Restingvoice

> The new TT team... I couldn't like the cast.
> 
> About his birthday,  we can assume Dick, Tim, Bruce and Alfred know the date, but I don't think other characters knew. I also can't imagine Damian inviting other peoples. Maybe Jon, but he is from after Damian's 13.
> I think he just wanted Bruce there.
> 
> *wasn't Colin erased after the reboot?


Damian _is_ the proud type... but... (continue below)

He was, only appearing in Li'l Gotham 




> Portrayed as lone wolf anti-social is some kind of Wayne curse. I already give up on Colin, Maya, Maps, and Sure because they unfortunately don't have strong background to maintain their existence, but DC's treatment about Damian's relationship with the rest of his family is just plain awful, almost as bad as Bruce's.
> 
> Steph, has great dynamic with Damian on her Batgirl run, forgotten after reboot. Cass, they trust each other on Gates of Gotham, but on Tynion's Tec Damian seems to forget about her, complained about her entering his room without permission, which is understandable because honestly, who will not get uncomfortable if someone on opposite gender, family or not, just entered your room on night without permission? If they write a boy carelessly entered a girl's room, the girl complained about it but the boy doesn't seem to listen, then she touched him a little to make the boy listened to her but the boy flipped the girl to ground instead, there will be riot from fans yelling violation of privacy and man supremacy. But if the role reversed and Damian is the boy, the response is "Damian acting like a brat, he deserved it" "Cass put that annoying kid on place" "It should be recorded". I don't blame Cass for that, in character she will know that her action makes Damian uncomfortable, but the writer just had to pull that scene for what? Declaring Cass superiority against blood son? Duke, they have good potential relationship in the end of Robin War, but of course on the first page of the first issue of Batman and The Signal, Damian antagonized Duke and refused his presence on the family. Jason, TT annual and Leviathan. Tim, actually I like what King did to Tim and Damian on Batman #76, if only he can pull off his head from BatCat for a second.. Dick, Ric. Alfred, his last word to Damian is him resembling Ra's Al Ghul, his last word that Damian heard is Alfred begged to not be killed in front of Damian. Jon, age up and baby Hitler (he's not family but close enough with Damian). Bruce, either estranged or conflicts, with Damian as the aggressive one.  
> 
> I don't get it, why they adamant to make both Damian and Bruce relationship with the rest of Batfam and with each other so divisive and very harmful to their character? Is lone wolf brooding Wayne some kind of DC's personal kink or something?
> 
> By the way, that's my answer to @Restingvoice question about getting annoyed with what happened to Damian. How you would change it? Let them have a good healthy relationship DC for God's sake. They didn't have to be Mr. and Young Mr. Loving Family, but how about not make them Mr. and Young Mr. Punching Family?


Cass was a new creation in New 52 so Damian wouldn't know her

So if Damian won't invite anyone, only Duke and Alfred would be available. They're friends at the end of Robin War, so they should be at least amicable.

I don't mind Batman busy with the League, that makes sense. I don't like it is the excuse for him to kidnap the TT. 
Also, Bruce shouldn't come back with "I'm here now, aren't I?" at the end of the arc.

(continued from above)

If he's kidnapping the TT out of loneliness, then he should invite his friends to the birthday, assuming we're operating under they're existing. 

Btw yes, we're doing a What If.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Just saying, Damian being aggressive with Duke in first Signal, don't really means he disapproves Duke.
He take much time for expose approbation, like Jon as a Friend, Maya as a competent person, Tim as part of Batfamily, Dick as a brother. I think he already fell in this way much before he shows it. *Also Titus and Alfred (the human).
Duke is one more "I like this guy, but will never admit it", if Duke ask for help in any moment Damian will say annoying things and help, just like the movie, popcorn thing . It is his tsundere side we talked before, and if this is not being tsundere I don't know what is.
He also 've admired Bruce since he can remember and just said in new 52, after Nobody thing.

Batman and Robin in new 52 is my perfect Bruce and Damian relationship for me, it's dark, cool, has light cute moments, the steps of they relationship about trust, love, respect is slow but well writted. After Damian cames back I felt a regression :/

----------


## Rebeca Armus

And about Cassandra being strong than Damian: I don't like it, don't have affinity with her too, but following the logic, Damian should be more skilled than everybody for being created for be the next Al Ghul, but he was also created for be a leader, studied enough for be a doctor, trained art skill. The little I know about Cassandra is that she is a weapon since her born and can't even talk very well.
I also don't like when a character "put Damian in the right place for being an annoying brat", it's don't help his in nothing, it's like put fire in more fire and act as it's going to resolve the problem.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> And about Cassandra being strong than Damian: I don't like it, don't have affinity with her too, but following the logic, Damian should be more skilled than everybody for being created for be the next Al Ghul, but he was also created for be a leader, studied enough for be a doctor, trained art skill. The little I know about Cassandra is that she is a weapon since her born and can't even talk very well.
> I also don't like when a character "put Damian in the right place for being an annoying brat", it's don't help his in nothing, it's like put fire in more fire and act as it's going to resolve the problem.


Actually, Cassandra is a character created in 1999, if I recall correctly, and she even had a very long Batgirl long that started in 2000. She was indeed raised as a weapon, but it's a little bit more than that. She was never taught language, so she became a master in reading body language, and that's a huge parte of why she is such a great fighter. Cass is able to predict the opponents movements and, of course, react accordingly. Because of that, she is widely known as the best fighter in the whole Batfam, including better than Batman himself, so it makes complete sense that she can beat Damian.  :Smile:  She and Dami never really interacted much because of DC's weird plan of trying to erase her for some unknown reason - there's even a moment she became evil, exactly the way Damian is right now. After screwing up so much, her character was pretty much rebooted in the New 52, and I think she hasn't recovered her memories yet. 

Just remember that liking a character doesn't mean they must be the best always, that's only natural!

----------


## Jackalope89

> Actually, Cassandra is a character created in 1999, if I recall correctly, and she even had a very long Batgirl long that started in 2000. She was indeed raised as a weapon, but it's a little bit more than that. She was never taught language, so she became a master in reading body language, and that's a huge parte of why she is such a great fighter. Cass is able to predict the opponents movements and, of course, react accordingly. Because of that, she is widely known as the best fighter in the whole Batfam, including better than Batman himself, so it makes complete sense that she can beat Damian.  She and Dami never really interacted much because of DC's weird plan of trying to erase her for some unknown reason - there's even a moment she became evil, exactly the way Damian is right now. After screwing up so much, her character was pretty much rebooted in the New 52, and I think she hasn't recovered her memories yet. 
> 
> Just remember that liking a character doesn't mean they must be the best always, that's only natural!


Exactly. And her Batgirl run (along with Steph's) are actually really good reads. Well, Cass was good up until the whole Deathstroke thing. And Steph's run went right up until Convergence.

----------


## Konja7

> Actually, Cassandra is a character created in 1999, if I recall correctly, and she even had a very long Batgirl long that started in 2000. She was indeed raised as a weapon, but it's a little bit more than that. She was never taught language, so she became a master in reading body language, and that's a huge parte of why she is such a great fighter. Cass is able to predict the opponents movements and, of course, react accordingly. Because of that, she is widely known as the best fighter in the whole Batfam, including better than Batman himself, so it makes complete sense that she can beat Damian.  She and Dami never really interacted much because of DC's weird plan of trying to erase her for some unknown reason - there's even a moment she became evil, exactly the way Damian is right now. After screwing up so much, her character was pretty much rebooted in the New 52, and I think she hasn't recovered her memories yet. 
> 
> Just remember that liking a character doesn't mean they must be the best always, that's only natural!


I should say the way DC became Cassandra evil was a lot more ridiculous.

At least, Damian losing faith in Batman and his methods has some sense.

Evil Cassandra was a totally different character.

----------


## Shadow1322

> I should say the way DC become Cassandra evil was a lot more ridiculous.
> 
> At least, Damian losing faith in Batman and his methods has some sense.
> 
> Evil Cassandra was a totally different character.


How, why.

Yes Bruce is .... And ... But  Damian losing faith in Batman and his methods has some sense don't make sense as Damian was move towards the centre line neither good nor bad not outright evil and he 13 year.
Damian fighting Bruce would be like Nico fighting Hades it be weird

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I opened the birthday comic.



This has 2 important points: Damian cared about Bruce not being there; How Alfred is filling Bruce's hole as a father, again. Remembering this he saying "there is nothing in manor anymore" make much sense.

I didn't like the kidnap, but this the first three pages is the type of thing I like ^-^

----------


## Konja7

> How, why.
> 
> Yes Bruce is .... And ... But  Damian losing faith in Batman and his methods has some sense don't make sense as Damian was move towards the centre line neither good nor bad not outright evil and he 13 year.
> Damian fighting Bruce would be like Nico fighting Hades it be weird


My point was primarily a comparison.

There are many complaints about the handling of Damian's situation, but I don't see anyone who thinks that Damian is a totally different character

----------


## Shadow1322

> My point was primarily a comparison.
> 
> There are many complaints about the handling of Damian's situation, but I don't see anyone who thinks that Damian is a totally different character


Because the teen titans storyline was poorly written, but how he fights with rage when first appeared and that was his go to for a long time. It's why Damian was so strong and why as he move away from that point he become weaker yet Damian in the last issue of teen titans. Fighting just with rage and anger which place the same as Damian before that storyline how exactly because he more like his first appearance.

That just one example

----------


## Restingvoice

> I opened the birthday comic.
> 
> 
> 
> This has 2 important points: Damian cared about Bruce not being there; How Alfred is filling Bruce's hole as a father, again. Remembering this he said "there is nothing in manor anymore" make much sense.
> 
> I didn't like the kidnap, but this the first three pages is the type of thing I like ^-^


So even if Dick or Duke is there it won't matter because what he wants is his dad, and his kidnapping the Titans is acting out, if dad is busy with the League then I'll be busy with the Titans.  

The question is if Colin, Maya, and Suren are within reach, would he need to kidnap the Titans or just form a new one, with Emiko, Wallace, and Jackson following later?

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> So even if Dick or Duke is there it won't matter because what he wants is his dad, and his kidnapping the Titans is acting out, if dad is busy with the League then I'll be busy with the Titans.  
> 
> The question is if Colin, Maya, and Suren are within reach, would he need to kidnap the Titans or just form a new one, with Emiko, Wallace, and Jackson following later?


It's a good question.
For me:
Still about the birthday, if Duke and Dick was there, Damian would not let the manor in that day, what doesn't means he wouldn't leave 1 week later for felling alone again. Dick was far away and Duke had is own team, Batman would keep absent and Damian would go away in a short time

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> The question is if Colin, Maya, and Suren are within reach, would he need to kidnap the Titans or just form a new one, with Emiko, Wallace, and Jackson following later?


I think if even just one of them were close, not just available, but close, this would already like being part of something, that is my opinion.

And if he had our dream team would already be likes Damian's TT. So, no sense in kidnapping another group for not being alone.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Just saying, Damian being aggressive with Duke in first Signal, don't really means he disapproves Duke.
> He take much time for expose approbation, like Jon as a Friend, Maya as a competent person, Tim as part of Batfamily, Dick as a brother. I think he already fell in this way much before he shows it. *Also Titus and Alfred (the human).
> Duke is one more "I like this guy, but will never admit it", if Duke ask for help in any moment Damian will say annoying things and help, just like the movie, popcorn thing . It is his tsundere side we talked before, and if this is not being tsundere I don't know what is.
> He also 've admired Bruce since he can remember and just said in new 52, after Nobody thing.
> 
> Batman and Robin in new 52 is my perfect Bruce and Damian relationship for me, it's dark, cool, has light cute moments, the steps of they relationship about trust, love, respect is slow but well writted. After Damian cames back I felt a regression :/


My point is, Damian and Duke has a good potential relationship, but instead developing it further they made Damian antagonized Duke without any resolution, then they almost never interract again except when Duke intentionally made Damian cry. I want him to have a nice stable relationship with at least one of his family member, why DC made him completely estranged with his family (and friends)? If DC can't create new bond between Damian with new character, at least don't ignore or even sever his bond with other people who already has good relationship with Damian. I noticed that DC use the same tactic with Bruce (hence why Batjerk or Bat abusive dad is so loudly complained recently).

Also I want to confirm that I don't have problem with Cass depicted stronger than Damian. Damian for me is like jack of all trades but master of none, since canonly he's good at fight, use many type of guns, sword, katana, dual sword, bow and arrow, throw bataraang with perfect precision, good at art, music instrument, engineering, making strategies, handling animal, acting, medical work, studies, detective work, logical deductive, driving, and apparently magic lately? (tell me if I miss something). But Cass was trained to be good at fight and fight alone since childhood, so it's logical if Cass is master at fight and better than Damian or even Batman. What I don't like is situation when a woman using violence to man when clearly the woman is the the wrong one, but fans see nothing wrong with that even applaud it because apparently 'woman beating man is badass' or something.

----------


## Light of Justice

> So even if Dick or Duke is there it won't matter because what he wants is his dad, and his kidnapping the Titans is acting out, if dad is busy with the League then I'll be busy with the Titans.  
> 
> The question is if Colin, Maya, and Suren are within reach, would he need to kidnap the Titans or just form a new one, with Emiko, Wallace, and Jackson following later?


Whoa whoa, let's we get something right. Damian didn't kidnap Titans because he was lonely on his birthday, nor because he wants a friend. He just want Bruce on his birthday like a child who want his dad to treat their birthday as something important for him. When it turns out Bruce couldn't celebrate his birthday with him instead went to work with Justice League, he was settled to spend the rest of his day brooding on top of gargoyle under the rain (for dramatic purpose apparently, wonder where he get that from), but his mother and a gift from his grandpa had to warn him that his cousin and her group choose him and the Titans as Year of Blood target. 


So he kidnapped those who were targeted by Mara's group and persuade them to work together with him because they have the same enemy (yes kidnapping is not a good method for that but of all skills that Damian has, social skill is not one of them). He never feels the need to have friends, only allies. He saw Colin as ally, Maya is the one who persistently follow him, he sympathized with Suren because they have similar situation, and he kidnapped Jon not because he wants to be friend with him, but think that Jon needs to be supervised. Sure, in the end they became friends with Damian, but it's not intentional or planned from Damian's side.

----------


## adrikito

> I understand that and I was only point out that if Damian was remove not only Bruce but the other batfamily members with no major hero to step in to he back into the fold the be no story of in the comic. 
> 
> I like to agree but can you actually say for sure  and not sure what actually point is with Damian actions so I just agree for time being.
> 
> But your maybe right about Dick going to see Damian but Tim
> 
> Sorry it was more to.help me keep track of the point I replaying to then anything else.
> 
> Also again sorry more use people say the old characters should be used more as way as attack on the new characters.
> ...


I see..

Damian problems with Batman methods started in Metal.. 

Anyway. It should be frustating 3 years later after join batman see that all the Bat-enemies that he saw his first year as Robin(even if they died) continue here and that many of them have been here for more than 1 decade escaping from the asylum or prison.. and that there are even more bat-villains now since he joined batman 3 years ago.

Tim? Knowing Damian and Tim fanbases problems with the other better don´t put them together.. Or something will be wrong here and one of the fanbases will complain about the other fanbase guy  :Frown: 

I was not saying that for attack New Characters. I continue thinking that the Batwing idea was good.

----------


## Shadow1322

> I see..
> 
> Damian problems with Batman methods started in Metal.. 
> 
> Anyway. It should be frustating 3 years later after join batman see that all the Bat-enemies that he saw his first year as Robin(even if they died) continue here and that many of them have been here for more than 1 decade escaping from the asylum or prison.. and that there are even more bat-villains now since he joined batman 3 years ago.
> 
> Tim? Knowing Damian and Tim fanbases problems with the other better donÂ´t put them together.. Or something will be wrong here and one of the fanbases will complain about the other fanbase guy 
> 
> I was not saying that for attack New Characters. I continue thinking that the Batwing idea was good.


I have not actually read metal But I thought from how people were comment about it that it happened after he started to question batman methods.

That my issue i thought this part was dealt with    especially as this storyline never set up good enough argument  that that work to counter his past development that was move in line with follow batmsn idea but killing if the chance was needed if I understand correctly thus why I say he was moving to  central point.  Plus with Damian have closer bond with dick why would he care about batman way outside the fact it what Dick what him to do so I don't understand why written that way.


Okay I may have forget parts so Damian may have better bond with Bruce then I am remembering

The part new character  Yes that my fault for misunderstood you point sorry about that

----------


## Restingvoice

> Whoa whoa, let's we get something right. Damian didn't kidnap Titans because he was lonely on his birthday, nor because he wants a friend. He just want Bruce on his birthday like a child who want his dad to treat their birthday as something important for him. When it turns out Bruce couldn't celebrate his birthday with him instead went to work with Justice League, he was settled to spend the rest of his day brooding on top of gargoyle under the rain (for dramatic purpose apparently, wonder where he get that from), but his mother and a gift from his grandpa had to warn him that his cousin and her group choose him and the Titans as Year of Blood target. 
> 
> 
> So he kidnapped those who were targeted by Mara's group and persuade them to work together with him because they have the same enemy (yes kidnapping is not a good method for that but of all skills that Damian has, social skill is not one of them). He never feels the need to have friends, only allies. He saw Colin as ally, Maya is the one who persistently follow him, he sympathized with Suren because they have similar situation, and he kidnapped Jon not because he wants to be friend with him, but think that Jon needs to be supervised. Sure, in the end they became friends with Damian, but it's not intentional or planned from Damian's side.


Che... so it has to be that team

Why do people never talk about this? (I don't read these series, in case you can't tell... the moment they made Bruce not attending Damian's birthday I was out. I thought it doesn't make sense considering he was... you know... dead... and all the lengths Bruce went through to get him back and be with him... it doesn't make sense to me that Bruce is unavailable no matter what the reason) 

All people talk about is the fact that Damian said, to the Titans, he has no friends. So I thought that's the only reason.

----------


## Digifiend

> Cass was a new creation in New 52 so Damian wouldn't know her


You're thinking of Harper Row, Bluebird.

----------


## Shadow1322

Is there reboot  of comics happening and if Damian is no longer robin will be  be written out of the comics as other believe

----------


## Konja7

> Is there reboot  of comics happening and if Damian is no longer robin will be  be written out of the comics as other believe


That worried me. I hope they don't want to dissapear Damian from main continuity, so Batman would be younger. 

To be clear, I don't think they will totally dissapear Damian since he is too popular, but I'm worried they put him on OGNs (where they could ignore most of his story or change his personality).

----------


## scary harpy

> Something that happened to Damian?
> Definitely has got to be the fact that writers often forget that he has friends besides Dick and Jon.
> I'd want Damian have some friends again.
> Collin Wilkes
> Stephanie Brown
> Maya Ducard
> Soren
> Maps
> 
> I'd want Damian to have his own cast of friends for supporting characters, seems like he's portrayed as a lone wolf anti social now aways, which is true about the anti-social part but c'mon. The kid did have friends.


Yes, I hope to see more of Damian's friends.

----------


## SixSpeedSamurai

> That worried me. I hope they don't want to dissapear Damian from main continuity, so Batman would be younger. 
> 
> To be clear, I don't think they will totally dissapear Damian since he is too popular, but I'm worried they put him on OGNs (where they could ignore most of his story or change his personality).


I thought I had read he's going to be the antagonist in an upcoming Detective Comics story.

----------


## Shadow1322

> I thought I had read he's going to be the antagonist in an upcoming Detective Comics story.


Out side the fact he not evil but I leave that part and was a badly thought out idea that only was push to make Tim robin again so I hope dc would be smarter enough not to push that idea.

Not Tim as robin. That other part to be clear

You realise you telling to.comment that talking and sometimes entire 

different now that actually read you comment more clearly
He involved and is work against Bruce to.my.understanding the antagonist in that  Detective Comics story is not Damian thought

Also I talking about if reboot happen you bring up a comic that still point of this run .

----------


## Shadow1322

> That worried me. I hope they don't want to dissapear Damian from main continuity, so Batman would be younger. 
> 
> To be clear, I don't think they will totally dissapear Damian since he is too popular, but I'm worried they put him on OGNs (where they could ignore most of his story or change his personality).


Oh I never about point that may remove to make him young it make sense with the push to added all characters from the 90 back in even if I disagree with it.

"I don't think they will totally dissapear Damian since he is too popular,"that fine to say but there not A lot they can do with character as young as Damian who brunch out.

where they could ignore most of his story or change his personality

If they can centralize his character arc and characterise then  I been fine with it also it stay close to his it was originally writing but trimmed the fat

----------


## sifighter

You know its kind of intriguing looking at the various incarnations of Damian right now

1. The main continuity one whose had it with his father, quit being Robin, and may be back to killing and probably thrown away his friends.

2. Injustice Damian who flat out betrayed his father and sided with Superman, I guess he has the rest of the Regime.

3. DCeased Damian who kind of respects his father and was a little worried about becoming Batman but has done so to honor his dying wish, got to grow up with Alfred and his buddy Jon while apparently starting a relationship with the new Wonder Woman.

How is it that the Damian in a zombie apocalypse is the more well adjusted of the version?

----------


## Shadow1322

> You know its kind of intriguing looking at the various incarnations of Damian right now
> 
> 1. The main continuity one whose had it with his father, quit being Robin, and may be back to killing and probably thrown away his friends.
> 
> 2. Injustice Damian who flat out betrayed his father and sided with Superman, I guess he has the rest of the Regime.
> 
> 3. DCeased Damian who kind of respects his father and was a little worried about becoming Batman but has done so to honor his dying wish, got to grow up with Alfred and his buddy Jon while apparently starting a relationship with the new Wonder Woman.
> 
> How is it that the Damian in a zombie apocalypse is the more well adjusted of the version?



more well adjusted not what call a kid rises by assassin cult but okay :Confused: 


The main continuity one whose had it with his father
Can you blame Damian. I mean the rest of the bat family by the look of it are not faring any better or the group that are doing okay kook to be small and that seem to be because of Bruce action.

probably thrown away his friends
If the teen titans were his friends God I rather never make friend but I don't see him throwing away his friendship with like of him and such.

DCeased Damian who kind of respects his father and was a little worried about becoming Batman but has done so to honor his dying wish,

While leaving out the issue and trauma that his character has, so it's much easier to push that kind of development, but kind of respects his father if Damian respects his father after Bruce action in the main comics than I show that problem and parent need gain the child respects as much child as need gain the parent respects.

In DCeased Bruce look to be a better father to all of his kid even Jason.


has done so to honor his dying 

If Bruce was the kind of father that has done it act in a way toward his children made them what to give reason to honor his dying wish, I would give you this, but as of right now this moot point for The main continuity as Bruce action seem to cause more trouble

Damian in DCeased feel too. Been normal child or as close as chief assassin can and adult so it's nice to a normal Damian have good things happen to him for once I guess, but the Damian in the The main continuity has too many issues that no one outside few try help him deal with so not going to be the same character or develop the same way

----------


## Jackalope89

> You know it’s kind of intriguing looking at the various incarnations of Damian right now
> 
> 1. The main continuity one whose had it with his father, quit being Robin, and may be back to killing and probably thrown away his friends.
> 
> 2. Injustice Damian who flat out betrayed his father and sided with Superman, I guess he has the rest of the Regime.
> 
> 3. DCeased Damian who kind of respects his father and was a little worried about becoming Batman but has done so to honor his dying wish, got to grow up with Alfred and his buddy Jon while apparently starting a relationship with the new Wonder Woman.
> 
> How is it that the Damian in a zombie apocalypse is the more well adjusted of the version?


For #2; Injustice Damian in the He-Man crossover changed sides and opposed Superman and Wonder Woman, donning the Batman mantle and to free his father (and led the attempt to ally with He-Man). That said; I don't remember if the "Batman wins" scenario in the game mentioned what happened to Damian.

----------


## Korath

> For #2; Injustice Damian in the He-Man crossover changed sides and opposed Superman and Wonder Woman, donning the Batman mantle and to free his father (and led the attempt to ally with He-Man). That said; I don't remember if the "Batman wins" scenario in the game mentioned what happened to Damian.


He also died in this crossover, when Diana snapped his neck, if I remember right, which allowed his father to break free from Superman's control.

----------


## Jackalope89

> He also died in this crossover, when Diana snapped his neck, if I remember right, which allowed his father to break free from Superman's control.


Yeah... a lot of give and take with that.

----------


## Morgoth

After the last Batman issue, I'm more and more confident that Tomasi will simply close most of Damian's problems with Bruce at 'Tec this fall. The comic directly confirmed that the whole point is restoring Bruce's family and all relationships, and Damian is mentioned in this issue among the three most important people for Bruce (besides him, Dick and Selina), whom he pushed away. I don’t think he will be left behind against of all this Tynion's initiative.

----------


## sifighter

Ok without spoilers for today’s issue I will repeat that I think DCeased Damian is the more well adjusted version, because he openly hugs commissioner Gordon, smiles, and tells a joke about Bruce afterwards (mainly about the hug and how Bruce wouldn’t do that). Even says, “I’m not as emotionally stunted”

I’m telling you somehow a zombie apocalypse got us a more well adjusted Damian who became Batman.

----------


## dietrich

> You know it’s kind of intriguing looking at the various incarnations of Damian right now
> 
> 1. The main continuity one whose had it with his father, quit being Robin, and may be back to killing and probably thrown away his friends.
> 
> 2. Injustice Damian who flat out betrayed his father and sided with Superman, I guess he has the rest of the Regime.
> 
> 3. DCeased Damian who kind of respects his father and was a little worried about becoming Batman but has done so to honor his dying wish, got to grow up with Alfred and his buddy Jon while apparently starting a relationship with the new Wonder Woman.
> 
> How is it that the Damian in a zombie apocalypse is the more well adjusted of the version?


Injustice Damian who is the middle ground between 2 extremes? The guy who saved the world where Batman failed?
The guy who managed to redeem Jason and turn him from would be child killer to hero fighting for innocents?

Injustice Damian also managed to save Alfred where The main Damian failed

DCeased isn't the only good Damian. Injustice and Beyond Damian are also good.

DCeased Bruce seemed to be a better Father to all his sons and main universe Bruce seems to learn later

----------


## sifighter

> Injustice Damian who is the middle ground between 2 extremes? The guy who saved the world where Batman failed?
> The guy who managed to redeem Jason and turn him from would be child killer to hero fighting for innocents?
> 
> Injustice Damian also managed to save Alfred where The main Damian failed
> 
> DCeased isn't the only good Damian. Injustice and Beyond Damian are also good


Yeah I suppose injustice Damian does at least have some middle ground to him. Haven’t been reading Batman Beyond, didn’t know Damian was in it.

----------


## Eckri

Just read the latest Young Justice issue, got to say why no reaction from Tim.
Last few pages shown he's in his Robin costume, his crew saying that Batman and Spoiler made him go Robin. 
And mind you, thinking that Tim doesn't know what Damian did is a betrayal to his analytical character trait, he should have easily figured out or asking the obvious question: What happened to Damian?

This is Tim Drake, his reaction to finding what Damian did in Teen Titans would have him hunt him down, and send Damian to jail or under house arrest at Wayne Manor.

----------


## Shadow1322

> Just read the latest Young Justice issue, got to say why no reaction from Tim.
> Last few pages shown he's in his Robin costume, his crew saying that Batman and Spoiler made him go Robin. 
> And mind you, thinking that Tim doesn't know what Damian did is a betrayal to his analytical character trait, he should have easily figured out or asking the obvious question: What happened to Damian?
> 
> This is Tim Drake, his reaction to finding what Damian did in Teen Titans would have him hunt him down, and send Damian to jail or under house arrest at Wayne Manor.


This is Tim Drake, his reaction to finding what Damian did in Teen Titans would have him hunt him down, and send Damian to jail or under house arrest at Wayne Manor

Are you going argue for that both in this post.and now when Damian  character arc unclear really?

Maybe be just glad that Tim is robin again

----------


## Konja7

> Just read the latest Young Justice issue, got to say why no reaction from Tim.
> Last few pages shown he's in his Robin costume, his crew saying that Batman and Spoiler made him go Robin. 
> And mind you, thinking that Tim doesn't know what Damian did is a betrayal to his analytical character trait, he should have easily figured out or asking the obvious question: What happened to Damian?
> 
> This is Tim Drake, his reaction to finding what Damian did in Teen Titans would have him hunt him down, and send Damian to jail or under house arrest at Wayne Manor.


I don't think "Tim being Robin again" (not totally sure he is using the alias again) is related to the situation with Damian.

Batman and Spoiler just seem to hate the Drake suit (as everyone).

----------


## DragonPiece

Damian got a mention in today's Batman issue as well. Bruce definitely regrets how city of bane went down and has a guilty conscience of Damian having to witness Alfred's death. Really glad Tomasi gets to follow up on this and we can get some bonding between bruce and damian in Detective finally.

----------


## Morgoth

> This is Tim Drake, his reaction to finding what Damian did in Teen Titans would have him hunt him down, and send Damian to jail or under house arrest at Wayne Manor.


Bruce might just not have said, what happened.  
Also, if Tim would have done that, he would create more problems for himself. Annual showed that Bruce did not give up and still believes in Damian, Tim can't go against this. Ultimately, this is none of his business, it is between Bruce and Damian.

----------


## Shadow1322

> Damian got a mention in today's Batman issue as well. Bruce definitely regrets how city of bane went down and has a guilty conscience of Damian having to witness Alfred's death. Really glad Tomasi gets to follow up on this and we can get some bonding between bruce and damian in Detective finally.


That I can agree with

----------


## Digifiend

Damian doesn't link face masks (uncomfy) and social distancing (nobody to fight)...
https://teendamianadventures.tumblr....-the-thugs-cry

----------


## SixSpeedSamurai

> Out side the fact he not evil but I leave that part and was a badly thought out idea that only was push to make Tim robin again so I hope dc would be smarter enough not to push that idea.
> 
> Not Tim as robin. That other part to be clear
> 
> You realise you telling to.comment that talking and sometimes entire 
> 
> different now that actually read you comment more clearly
> He involved and is work against Bruce to.my.understanding the antagonist in that  Detective Comics story is not Damian thought
> 
> Also I talking about if reboot happen you bring up a comic that still point of this run .


The previews use the word "threat," but he's not the main antagonist.   But who knows what Tomasi has up his sleeve.

----------


## Shadow1322

> The previews use the word "threat," but he's not the main antagonist.   But who knows what Tomasi has up his sleeve.


Actually DETECTIVE COMICS #1030

"A new foe called the Mirror has joined the Dark Knight’s rogues gallery—but is there more to this villain than meets the eye? Or is he simply a reflection of the world around him? As the Bat-Family find themselves on the run from the Mirror’s army, Damian Wayne lurks in the shadows, plotting his next move in a cat-and-mouse game between father and son that can only end in disaster!"

DETECTIVE COMICS #1031
Damian Wayne has made his move against a familiar threat from Bruce Wayne’s past—so why has the former Boy Wonder targeted none other than Tommy Elliot—a.k.a. Hush? It may have something to do with the Black Casebook that Bruce liberated from The Joker’s territory in the monumental Detective Comics #1027…but how far will Damian go to avenge this grudge from his father’s past?

No where is word threat use or is not  Damian place as antagonist  rather he go against batman which fit with his arc at the moment and again it be stupid  for dc to continue this push that Damian is going to be evil. Rather they should two issues set back to before dc muck his development up

----------


## Light of Justice

> This is Tim Drake, his reaction to finding what Damian did in Teen Titans would have him hunt him down, and send Damian to jail or under house arrest at Wayne Manor
> 
> Are you going argue for that both in this post.and now when Damian  character arc unclear really?
> 
> Maybe be just glad that Tim is robin again


@Eckri didn't argue about Tim become Robin, nor protested about it, it's actually legitimate question. When you suddenly get title which previously was owned by someone you've know, it's understandable for you to ask, 'but what happened to the X person who previously hold this title? Is X in trouble or something so they don't hold this title now?' For example, on the start of Batman Inc, when Bruce come back, he asked Dick to stay as Batman, the Dick asked him, 'What about you?' That's obvious and logical question, and it's weird if Dick didn't ask Bruce that and just went 'yes sir'. Even though Tim is maybe the most obedient of all Robin (which is very low bar when the opponent are Damian, Jason, and Dick), is it possible that Tim will accept Robin title back without question? That curious, critical Tim?

Honestly, I don't know if Tim is Bendis's favorite Robin or not, but he really does him dirty by turning him into 'yes sir' man. Before, he changed his name because his future self (evil future self) said that Drake is the most dangerous bird in the world (how the hell Tim believed that is beyond me) and apparently Bart said that Drake is cool. Now this. Where is my independent minor Tim even on his own 90's Robin run, Bendis?

----------


## Light of Justice

> This is Tim Drake, his reaction to finding what Damian did in Teen Titans would have him hunt him down, and send Damian to jail or under house arrest at Wayne Manor.


I don't think it will be that extreme. On Red Robin era maybe, when Tim put Damian on his hit list. On Rebirth, Tim and Damian have moved way past old animosity like on first time they've met. Tim helped Damian when he got thrown by Cass (even though he wanted to record it, but honestly if my annoying little brother falls by accident, I will help him but in my heart and if no parents on sight I want to record it). Damian sorted Tim's belonging after his death (which end up with him finding Tim's "Damian is Deathstroke's son" conspiracy video, but it seems like Damian doesn't hate Tim for that since he never mention it to Tim with malice). On Supersons of Tomorrow, Damian feel reluctant to fight Savior because "Drake is Drake". Their conversation on Batman #76, and when they fought with Flashpoint Batman on Batman #81 indicated that they have mutual respect with other's opinion.

If Tim finds out what Damian did in Teen Titans, doubt he will hunt Damian down. I think he will only tell it to Bruce, step back and let Bruce handle Damian himself, since Tim is many things, but "Damian tamer" is not one of them.

----------


## Shadow1322

> @Eckri didn't argue about Tim become Robin, nor protested about it, it's actually legitimate question. When you suddenly get title which previously was owned by someone you've know, it's understandable for you to ask, 'but what happened to the X person who previously hold this title? Is X in trouble or something so they don't hold this title now?' For example, on the start of Batman Inc, when Bruce come back, he asked Dick to stay as Batman, the Dick asked him, 'What about you?' That's obvious and logical question, and it's weird if Dick didn't ask Bruce that and just went 'yes sir'. Even though Tim is maybe the most obedient of all Robin (which is very low bar when the opponent are Damian, Jason, and Dick), is it possible that Tim will accept Robin title back without question? That curious, critical Tim?
> 
> Honestly, I don't know if Tim is Bendis's favorite Robin or not, but he really does him dirty by turning him into 'yes sir' man. Before, he changed his name because his future self (evil future self) said that Drake is the most dangerous bird in the world (how the hell Tim believed that is beyond me) and apparently Bart said that Drake is cool. Now this. Where is my independent minor Tim even on his own 90's Robin run, Bendis?



I only added the robin part to make a point 




Most your point have nothing to do with my main  my issue that have  I made clear what  was or I believe that I had. Again Tim being curious is fine but Tim involved will stop any chance of fixing  the problem that combine from  teen titans storyline   with Damian .

Where is my independent minor Tim even on his own 90's Robin run, 


And why you bring this up in post central around Damian

First you misgivings with how Tim has been written are not the reason while I don't what tim involved and to be honest Damian development was muck so Tim could be the robin again so.You post this here is unneeded

No the reason was the Eckri person write "This is Tim Drake, his reaction to finding what Damian did in Teen Titans would have him hunt him down, and send Damian to jail or under house arrest at Wayne Manor"

This has nothing do with Tim rather is Damian and Bruce to fix Which Bruce was shown try help Damian while give him in trouble i hopeful this make sense

----------


## Eckri

> First you misgivings with how Tim has been written are not the reason while I don't what tim involved and to be honest Damian development was muck so Tim could be the robin again so.You post this here is unneeded
> 
> No the reason was the Eckri person write "This is Tim Drake, his reaction to finding what Damian did in Teen Titans would have him hunt him down, and send Damian to jail or under house arrest at Wayne Manor"
> 
> This has nothing do with Tim rather is Damian and Bruce to fix Which Bruce was shown try help Damian while give him in trouble i hopeful this make sense


Ah I see, I apologize. 

The reason why I said Tim Drake would hunt down Damian is because of my assumption, that Tim Drake and Damian still somewhat hated each other ala Pre-New 52. 

That still that Tim Drake still hated Damian enough, to justify him getting involved in Damian becoming criminal, which would get him involved in any of Damian's criminal actions. Clearly I was wrong.

I agree that Tim getting involved would not solve the problems between Damian and Bruce, and it is rather not his problem. Again, I apologize for my assumptions.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I only added the robin part to make a point 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most your point have nothing to do with my main  my issue that have  I made clear what  was or I believe that I had. Again Tim being curious is fine but Tim involved will stop any chance of fixing  the problem that combine from  teen titans storyline   with Damian .
> 
> Where is my independent minor Tim even on his own 90's Robin run, 
> 
> ...


Ah, so your particular problem is this sentence "This is Tim Drake, his reaction to finding what Damian did in Teen Titans would have him hunt him down, and send Damian to jail or under house arrest at Wayne Manor"
Sorry I overlook that. You quote @Eckri whole post so I think you have problem with whole post too.

If you want to quote particular sentence to be replied, it's better to put quotation mark, bold, italic, or underline on them to avoid confusion. Just click B, I, or U on top and copy the sentence you want to be quoted between [B or I or U] symbol and [/B or I or U] symbol. Or to use CBR quoting tool you can use [ quote ] symbol (with no space before and after quote word, I put space so my explanation will not be quoted), and ended with [ /quote ] symbol (with no space before and after quote word, I put space so my explanation will not be quoted).

Example :



> "This is Tim Drake, his reaction to finding what Damian did in Teen Titans would have him hunt him down, and send Damian to jail or under house arrest at Wayne Manor"


Like that.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

What I need to read now for don't get spoiler of the last 2 pages of conversation here?

----------


## Light of Justice

> What I need to read now for don't get spoiler of the last 2 pages of conversation here?


Young Justice #19, Batman #98, and Dceased: Dead Planet #3

----------


## Astralabius

> Actually DETECTIVE COMICS #1030
> 
> "A new foe called the Mirror has joined the Dark Knight’s rogues gallery—but is there more to this villain than meets the eye? Or is he simply a reflection of the world around him? As the Bat-Family find themselves on the run from the Mirror’s army, Damian Wayne lurks in the shadows, plotting his next move in a cat-and-mouse game between father and son that can only end in disaster!"
> 
> DETECTIVE COMICS #1031
> Damian Wayne has made his move against a familiar threat from Bruce Wayne’s past—so why has the former Boy Wonder targeted none other than Tommy Elliot—a.k.a. Hush? It may have something to do with the Black Casebook that Bruce liberated from The Joker’s territory in the monumental Detective Comics #1027…but how far will Damian go to avenge this grudge from his father’s past?
> 
> No where is word threat use or is not  Damian place as antagonist  rather he go against batman which fit with his arc at the moment and again it be stupid  for dc to continue this push that Damian is going to be evil. Rather they should two issues set back to before dc muck his development up


The word threat was used to describe Damian in the solicitation for Detective Comics 1028.
And the solicitation for 1030 doesn't sound a lot better.

----------


## Morgoth

Solicitations don't always tell the truth about storyline.
And also it was confirmed, that villains of this arc are Mirror and Hush, Damian just for some reason will hunt down Elliot.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Young Justice #19, Batman #98, and Dceased: Dead Planet #3


Nice <3 Thanks <3

----------


## king81992

> Just read the latest Young Justice issue, got to say why no reaction from Tim.
> Last few pages shown he's in his Robin costume, his crew saying that Batman and Spoiler made him go Robin. 
> And mind you, thinking that Tim doesn't know what Damian did is a betrayal to his analytical character trait, he should have easily figured out or asking the obvious question: What happened to Damian?
> 
> This is Tim Drake, his reaction to finding what Damian did in Teen Titans would have him hunt him down, and send Damian to jail or under house arrest at Wayne Manor.


I don't think Tim knows about what Damian has done and even if he did, their relationship isn't as bad as it used to be, he wouldn't go out of his way to hunt down Damian.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

We have Damian here:



Do you thinks this means maybe he will appers in tv animations even don't showing up in comics or movies animations?
There is any plan for YJ season4?
Maybe Superman of Tomorrow ending with Louis getting pregnant because this has a focus in them? Because DC could has a reason for show baby Damian and baby Jon? It could be a abandoned idea, but would be awesome if this means a Super Sons thing, or any other thing, I am accpeting everything now :'''')

----------


## Shadow1322

> Ah I see, I apologize. 
> 
> The reason why I said Tim Drake would hunt down Damian is because of my assumption, that Tim Drake and Damian still somewhat hated each other ala Pre-New 52. 
> 
> That still that Tim Drake still hated Damian enough, to justify him getting involved in Damian becoming criminal, which would get him involved in any of Damian's criminal actions. Clearly I was wrong.
> 
> I agree that Tim getting involved would not solve the problems between Damian and Bruce, and it is rather not his problem. Again, I apologize for my assumptions.


To be fair I jump the gun by not asking why you thought Tim act.  sorry about that.

----------


## SixSpeedSamurai

> Actually DETECTIVE COMICS #1030
> 
> "A new foe called the Mirror has joined the Dark Knights rogues gallerybut is there more to this villain than meets the eye? Or is he simply a reflection of the world around him? As the Bat-Family find themselves on the run from the Mirrors army, Damian Wayne lurks in the shadows, plotting his next move in a cat-and-mouse game between father and son that can only end in disaster!"
> 
> DETECTIVE COMICS #1031
> Damian Wayne has made his move against a familiar threat from Bruce Waynes pastso why has the former Boy Wonder targeted none other than Tommy Elliota.k.a. Hush? It may have something to do with the Black Casebook that Bruce liberated from The Jokers territory in the monumental Detective Comics #1027but how far will Damian go to avenge this grudge from his fathers past?
> 
> No where is word threat use or is not  Damian place as antagonist  rather he go against batman which fit with his arc at the moment and again it be stupid  for dc to continue this push that Damian is going to be evil. Rather they should two issues set back to before dc muck his development up


Wrong, #1029:

After the City of Bane, the Riddlers takeover, The Joker War, and more, the people of Gotham City have had enough. The world is changing for Bruce Wayne, and the question he must ask himself is: What role does the Batman have in a city that rejects him? As the year barrels forward into what will become a turning point for the Dark Knight, Batman must grapple with the very citizens he has sworn to protect...while a familiar face looms large as a new threat on the horizon: Damian Wayne!

----------


## Rebeca Armus

There is one more thing, I don't like how DC don't give a specific fight hability for characters because this ending being a generic thing, Batman knows many marcial arts, but his fight style is basically punchs :/
And there is a martial art that is PERFECT to Damian that is "silat", and I see fights of martial art for references and silat is that violent, intense, effective not so beautiful/elegant thing.
If you have time watch this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwZ1G9fKPI8
Pretty anger Damian, right?

----------


## Shadow1322

> Wrong, #1029:
> 
> After the City of Bane, the Riddler’s takeover, The Joker War, and more, the people of Gotham City have had enough. The world is changing for Bruce Wayne, and the question he must ask himself is: What role does the Batman have in a city that rejects him? As the year barrels forward into what will become a turning point for the Dark Knight, Batman must grapple with the very citizens he has sworn to protect...while a familiar face looms large as a new threat on the horizon: Damian Wayne!


 :Confused: 
Explain why you what Damian as threat or antagonist so I know what I deal with.

Like something I miss did it somehow be comes cool and edge to make kid that grown in cult of assassin as new red hood even thought he up to try move past .point or am I  missing something

Because I clearly show that not true or  that true for only 1029

----------


## Jackalope89

> We have Damian here:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you thinks this means maybe he will appers in tv animations even don't showing up in comics or movies animations?
> There is any plan for YJ season4?
> Maybe Superman of Tomorrow ending with Louis getting pregnant because this has a focus in them? Because DC could has a reason for show baby Damian and baby Jon? It could be a abandoned idea, but would be awesome if this means a Super Sons thing, or any other thing, I am accpeting everything now :'''')


For YJ season 4;
It quite possible Damian and Jon (along with the other babies shown in season 3) will feature in season 4. But its not a guarantee that they will be prominent among the ever growing list of characters. Can't forget, Jason Todd and the Legion of Super Heroes were also shown (the former moreso than even most of the Super Babies).

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> For YJ season 4;
> It quite possible Damian and Jon (along with the other babies shown in season 3) will feature in season 4. But its not a guarantee that they will be prominent among the ever growing list of characters. Can't forget, Jason Todd and the Legion of Super Heroes were also shown (the former moreso than even most of the Super Babies).


"Super Babies" so adorable (*u*).
I didn't watch YJ, who are the others super babies?
I was thinking more about when they just introduce a character as appearances and use them in another show, more like a spin-off.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> For YJ season 4;
> It quite possible Damian and Jon (along with the other babies shown in season 3) will feature in season 4. But its not a guarantee that they will be prominent among the ever growing list of characters. Can't forget, Jason Todd and the Legion of Super Heroes were also shown (the former moreso than even most of the Super Babies).


This is a good example of how this could turn in spin-offs/independent shows, someone here talked about how YJ has almost too many characters now, do you think (as someone that really watch the show), would be better divide the group and just put together in a couple of crossover?

----------


## Jackalope89

> "Super Babies" so adorable (*u*).
> I didn't watch YJ, who are the others super babies?
> I was thinking more about when they just introduce a character as appearances and use them in another show, more like a spin-off.


Along with Jon and Damian, there's the Tornado Twins (Barry Allen's kids), Red Tornado's adopted daughter, Arthur Jr. (Arthur Curry's son), Lian Harper, Anissa and Jennifer (Black Lightning's daughters) are the ones I remember being shown. With a strong possibility of more to come.

----------


## Morgoth

They won't appear in Season 4, at least at the age to make them team members.
Most likely this is the 5-6 season at least, provided that there is a big time-skip. And that's if they won't cancel YJ again.

----------


## Jackalope89

> They won't appear in Season 4, at least at the age to make them team members.
> Most likely this is the 5-6 season at least, provided that there is a big time-skip. And that's if they won't cancel YJ again.


Season 4 is (was, before the nation wide shutdowns) in development, and barring it bombing hard in season 4, will probably get 5. It was DC Universe's biggest draw.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Along with Jon and Damian, there's the Tornado Twins (Barry Allen's kids), Red Tornado's adopted daughter, Arthur Jr. (Arthur Curry's son), Lian Harper, Anissa and Jennifer (Black Lightning's daughters) are the ones I remember being shown. With a strong possibility of more to come.


Looks pretty promising for me,  DC would not include so many children without a plan (I suppose), if they keep the series I think it really can happens. I will watch u.u
My only thing with the show is that isn't so easy sell merchandise, TT had a flashy visual

----------


## Morgoth

> Season 4 is (was, before the nation wide shutdowns) in development, and barring it bombing hard in season 4, will probably get 5. It was DC Universe's biggest draw.


I hope so. At least they will be able to finish Darkseid/Light storyline.



> Looks pretty promising for me,  DC would not include so many children without a plan (I suppose), if they keep the series I think it really can happens. I will watch u.u
> My only thing with the show is that isn't so easy sell merchandise, TT had a flashy visual


Well, they have a plan for Damian's generation, and that was just a teaser for that. The real question is whether they will be shown in the end depends on how long the show will last and whether there will be another big time-skip. It all depends on how long the show will last.

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## Rebeca Armus

> I hope so. At least they will be able to finish Darkseid/Light storyline.
> 
> Well, they have a plan for Damian's generation, and that was just a teaser for that. The real question is whether they will be shown in the end depends on how long the show will last and whether there will be another big time-skip. It all depends on how long the show will last.


because of this I think is easier to do a new show, this long long stops in-between seasons are a problem for keep audience interested.

----------


## AmiMizuno

I would love to see Damian. I just hope they keep his and Dick's relationship. With the comics, I don't get why they have to keep Damian needing to fight with Bruce. The first times I got but right now I don't get

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## Blue22

The only reason I don't wanna see Damian and Jon in season 4 is because (unless time travel is involved, which is very possible since the Legion is a thing) that would mean we're getting another big time skip. The show's done that twice already and I honestly think both times kinda hurt the story they're telling more than it helped. 

Like, it's cool seeing how much the universe has expanded since the first season....but it's also kinda frustrating seeing how much all of these characters grow and change off screen (I'm fully expecting them to skip over the whole Red Hood storyline they set up so that he's already a part of the Batfamily by season 4). It's also frustrating seeing them constantly introduce new members to the team, only for them to not do a damn thing (Season 3 in particular was REALLY bad with that). I'd love to see Damian make an appearance as Robin someday...But I don't think it's the right time yet.

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## Rebeca Armus

> I would love to see Damian. I just hope they keep his and Dick's relationship. With the comics, I don't get why they have to keep Damian needing to fight with Bruce. The first times I got but right now I don't get


Me too, Dick is actually nice for everybody, can't think a dinamic with him that doesn't work well.
I think they keeping fighting because any of them change, so there is the disagreements, but also a general inability for talking and a habit of express themselves with fights, I think both do this with the other Batfamily members, but between Bruce and Damian is worst :/

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## Fergus

> I would love to see Damian. I just hope they keep his and Dick's relationship. With the comics, I don't get why they have to keep Damian needing to fight with Bruce. The first times I got but right now I don't get


Sure you get why.

The same reason Bruce has been fighting with his kid long before even Talia was introduced.

The same reason why Bruce fights with his TM and has been doing long before Damian and the same reason why Bruce fights with every member of his family.

Bruce has been around for over 80 years and around half of those he has been portrayed as always having strained relationships

----------


## Fergus

> Me too, Dick is actually nice for everybody, can't think a dinamic with him that doesn't work well.
> I think they keeping fighting because any of them change, so there is the disagreements, but also a general inability for talking and a habit of express themselves with fights, I think both do this with the other Batfamily members, but between Bruce and Damian is worst :/


Dick isn't as nice as all that. he has quite the temper and hasn't always gotten along with everyone without putting in an effort.

He didn't like Damian at first and it took some effort for him to tolerate Damian.

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## Astralabius

> Solicitations don't always tell the truth about storyline.
> And also it was confirmed, that villains of this arc are Mirror and Hush, Damian just for some reason will hunt down Elliot.


Some of you people said the same thing about the last Teen Titans arc and look where we ended up :/
I'm aware that Damian is not the main villain in that arc, they probably only included it to bait people into buying these issues and in reality Damian will probably have nothing to do with the main story and only pop up at the end of each issue to tease the next arc.
The teased build up doesn't make me feel excited for the next arc either though.

----------


## SixSpeedSamurai

> Explain why you what Damian as threat or antagonist so I know what I deal with.
> 
> Like something I miss did it somehow be comes cool and edge to make kid that grown in cult of assassin as new red hood even thought he up to try move past .point or am I  missing something
> 
> Because I clearly show that not true or  that true for only 1029


I am just relaying what they are previewing in the solicits, this certainly sounds like Damian will be at odds with Bruce.   I don't care either way honestly, but I can understand where you are coming from as I dislike it when they jack up a character I like.

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## Shadow1322

> I am just relaying what they are previewing in the solicits, this certainly sounds like Damian will be at odds with Bruce.   I don't care either way honestly, but I can understand where you are coming from as I dislike it when they jack up a character I like.


I still disagree and actually more push against the idea that  Damian is being made in to a antagonist against Bruce with the release of batman 98 issue but we see

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## Rebeca Armus

I am ok if he doesn't appears in the new arc if he still come back in, I don't know 4 months? It's better than thinking he will disappears for a undetermined time T-T

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## Rebeca Armus

I think Damian don't really wants to antagonist his father, Tim becoming Robin again will be explained properly?

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## Shadow1322

> I am ok if he doesn't appears in the new arc if he still come back in, I don't know 4 months? It's better than thinking he will disappears for a undetermined time T-T


  if these next two issues don't  set him being involved in a new to arc that lead to something back has previously development i have no  problem  what him   not been  involved as what the original reason for but I rather he was as  Damian actually reason for his actions seem to be change in the Teen Titans Annual #2 was  change to Bruce , Dick and Alfred then Damian not appear or not being involved was choose and the that choose was even more remove batman 98 push to bring all of "bat family" back together even Damian if the wording fit.

he will disappears for a undetermined time 

Just because he not robin is not reason to make not involved storyline going forward.

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## Masterff

> The only reason I don't wanna see Damian and Jon in season 4 is because (unless time travel is involved, which is very possible since the Legion is a thing) that would mean we're getting another big time skip. The show's done that twice already and I honestly think both times kinda hurt the story they're telling more than it helped. 
> 
> Like, it's cool seeing how much the universe has expanded since the first season....but it's also kinda frustrating seeing how much all of these characters grow and change off screen (I'm fully expecting them to skip over the whole Red Hood storyline they set up so that he's already a part of the Batfamily by season 4). It's also frustrating seeing them constantly introduce new members to the team, only for them to not do a damn thing (Season 3 in particular was REALLY bad with that). I'd love to see Damian make an appearance as Robin someday...But I don't think it's the right time yet.


I DONT find it frustrating, I find it necessary...

Better than the Comics where especially Tim,Bart,Conner and Cassie are de-aged...

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## Digifiend

> Season 4 is (was, before the nation wide shutdowns) in development, and barring it bombing hard in season 4, will probably get 5. It was DC Universe's biggest draw.


All of the DC Universe shows are moving to HBO Max (DC Universe will be just comics) in the near future, except Stargirl which is now one of CW's Arrowverse shows (or CWverse as they insist on now calling it). That means Young Justice won't be such an important draw any more, and while season 4 will be completed and released, I'm not sure there'll be a season 5.

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## Rebeca Armus

> All of the DC Universe shows are moving to HBO Max (DC Universe will be just comics) in the near future, except Stargirl which is now one of CW's Arrowverse shows (or CWverse as they insist on now calling it). That means Young Justice won't be such an important draw any more, and while season 4 will be completed and released, I'm not sure there'll be a season 5.


There is a site to know how was YJ television audience? If it's near of other shows would be a good indicator of YJ keep going. (not just USA audience).

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## Rebeca Armus

You know how Shazam showed up in TTGO and Robin says "You really are a hero for all family enjoy" because they are promoting Shazam's movie? They could do something with YJ too, peoples would remember they exist (at least in my country YJ really lost many fans interest because the hiatus).

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## Digifiend

> There is a site to know how was YJ television audience? If it's near of other shows would be a good indicator of YJ keep going. (not just USA audience).


I don't think YJ: Outsiders has aired on television at all. Seems more likely to be on a streaming service - but did it get picked up outside the US at all?

And there's no way to fins out what the viewer numbers are for streaming shows. Nielsen literally just started releasing numbers this week, and only for Netflix and Amazon.
https://www.cbr.com/the-umbrella-aca...reaming-chart/

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## the1&onlyE.

Tom Taylor and Daniele Di Nicuolo dropping batDamian hints.  :Smile:

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## Konja7

> Tom Taylor and Daniele Di Nicuolo dropping batDamian hints.


So far, it doesn't seem confirmed what will be the comic for this image. 

Now, if this image is from a comic in continuity, Batboy as a new identity for Damian is a possibility.


PS: it isn't totally sure that Tom Taylor is involved, he just mentioned that he knows what's the origin of this image.

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## sifighter

> So far, it doesn't seem confirmed what will be the comic for this image. 
> 
> Now, if this image is from a comic in continuity, Batboy as a new identity for Damian is a possibility.
> 
> 
> PS: it isn't totally sure that Tom Taylor is involved, he just mentioned that he knows what's the origin of this image.


I mean I assume that its DCeased related, given that its clearly Damian as Batman and DCeased is the only place where he looks like that. Unless its Death Metal related then its DCeased related which means Tom Taylor is involved.

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## Konja7

> I mean I assume that it’s DCeased related, given that it’s clearly Damian as Batman and DCeased is the only place where he looks like that. Unless it’s Death Metal related then it’s DCeased related which means Tom Taylor is involved.


In twitter, Daniele Di Nicuolo was asked if the image is from DCeased, but his answer wasn't clear.

Tom Taylor say this image is a secret he knows (he also mentioned this isn't from Seven Secrets).

It will be weird they are so mysterious about a BatDamian image from DCeased, since we already know he is Batman in DCeased. 

So far, we don't know where this image will appear.

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## sifighter

> In twitter, Daniele Di Nicuolo was asked if the image is from DCeased, but his answer wasn't clear.
> 
> Tom Taylor say this image is a secret he knows (he also mentioned this isn't from Seven Secrets).
> 
> So far, we don't know where this image will appear.


No I get that, but just from looking at it you can clearly tell it’s a young Batman, the only young Batman is Damian in DCeased, and the fact Taylor is showing it off makes me think DCeased related. It could be anything, you are correct on that, but I have a strong feeling it will be more DCeased.

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## adrikito

> Tom Taylor and Daniele Di Nicuolo dropping batDamian hints.


This is from DCeased?

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## Morgoth

Probably, unless a twist happens and Damian is wearing a smaller Batman costume after quiting being Robin, lol.
But for some reason they refused to confirm anything. Maybe some new series.
Upd. Yes, it's DCeased, judging by his Instagram.

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## DragonPiece

Damian definitely wouldn't switch to a batman costume in current continuity, so it's definitely some out of continuity story like dceased.

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## dietrich

> So far, it doesn't seem confirmed what will be the comic for this image. 
> 
> Now, if this image is from a comic in continuity, Batboy as a new identity for Damian is a possibility.
> 
> 
> PS: it isn't totally sure that Tom Taylor is involved, he just mentioned that he knows what's the origin of this image.


Damian isn't becoming anything other than staying Robin.

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## dietrich

> Damian definitely wouldn't switch to a batman costume in current continuity, so it's definitely some out of continuity story like dceased.


Agreed. I know what the comics are teasing but Damian isn't going to be wearing anything other than Robin.

With AT&T now reducing the no of comics and focusing on YA and black label titles going forward I'm excited for the future.

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## dietrich

Michele Wells seems to be a big fan of DCeased but she was also the one in charge when Ian Wayne happened.

It also seems that she isn't aware that Damian is part Asian and Arabian since he isn't included in any of the YA celebrations of diversity

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## dietrich

> No I get that, but just from looking at it you can clearly tell it’s a young Batman, the only young Batman is Damian in DCeased, and the fact Taylor is showing it off makes me think DCeased related. It could be anything, you are correct on that, but I have a strong feeling it will be more DCeased.


I too believe it's more DCeased. I'm not complaining.

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## dietrich

> I don't think YJ: Outsiders has aired on television at all. Seems more likely to be on a streaming service - but did it get picked up outside the US at all?
> 
> And there's no way to fins out what the viewer numbers are for streaming shows. Nielsen literally just started releasing numbers this week, and only for Netflix and Amazon.
> https://www.cbr.com/the-umbrella-aca...reaming-chart/


I've not been able to watch YJ outside the US unlike something like Harley Quinn which I managed to catch on SyFy

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## Jackalope89

> I've not been able to watch YJ outside the US unlike something like Harley Quinn which I managed to catch on SyFy


It may or may not be on less scrutable streaming websites...

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## Shadow1322

> I've not been able to watch YJ outside the US unlike something like Harley Quinn which I managed to catch on SyFy


If you have ps4 or kindle or something that like them  ...  I think first two seasons and the new season are normally on it

And I believe first two seasons are out DVD

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## Rebeca Armus

About who thinks Damian will become Robin again, would Tim lost his Robin mantle again so fast? For me makes more sense if after of all Damian said he don't be Batman's sidekick for a good time.

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## Shadow1322

> About who thinks Damian will become Robin again, would Tim lost his Robin mantle again so fast? For me makes more sense if after of all Damian said he don't be Batman's sidekick for a good time.





 Damian said he don't be Batman's sidekick for a good time

Less that actually made something like him deal with his past so they writer have less reason be able writing him going back way so often than pick up the Robin mantle or whatever they have planned then I disagree, I don't what Damian removed from the comics for a small amount of time, but for writers to fix the issue they created and less they came up with one actually good reason this just look like a way to reduce or remove Damian for the comic for no actual reason.

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## Digifiend

> It may or may not be on less scrutable streaming websites...


Yeah, that's how I watched it. Not a lot of choice with no legal release.

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## Korath

I don't see Damian getting back to Robin any time soon. Wouldn't make sense when WB is clearly pushing Tim as *the* Robin in outside medias now - probably because they've realized that it's his most recognizable feature and he isn't really suited for another identity, when Damian doesn't really need the Robin mantle.

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## Rebeca Armus

Ah, I want a readers opinion.
There is a couple o fics that talk about Damian having Asperger's syndrome, there is moments that this make much sense for me, and others that I just fell "it's just Damian creation, he was not taught for speak with common persons".
What are you guys opinions?

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## the1&onlyE.

> I don't see Damian getting back to Robin any time soon. Wouldn't make sense when WB is clearly pushing Tim as *the* Robin in outside medias now - probably because they've realized that it's his most recognizable feature and he isn't really suited for another identity, when Damian doesn't really need the Robin mantle.


I'm not really sure about that, to be honest... I don't know if Damian will be Robin again soon or not, but I don't think they are trying to push Tim as the Robin. I think that maybe a lot of that is related to a lot of weird timing, if you think about it. Damian was originally supposed to give up the mantle in the start of this year, Drake was supposed to be pushed forward. Plans changes, and they ended up happening at the same time that DC Fandome did, in which there's Gotham Knights. But in that gam it makes sense to use Tim as Robin, because it is a new universe, and it doesn't mean Damian will never appear. Other than that, where was Tim Robin recently? Young Justice, in which Damian is eventally going to appear?

I think is just really hard to understand what is happening right now, and all we can do is wait until Damian's arc in Detective starts to see what happens.

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## Shadow1322

> I don't see Damian getting back to Robin any time soon. Wouldn't make sense when WB is clearly pushing Tim as *the* Robin in outside medias now - probably because they've realized that it's his most recognizable feature and he isn't really suited for another identity, when Damian doesn't really need the Robin mantle.


Wow so you arguing bad writing is good now because it help your favourite character. You have point if the dc don't push Damian development back how was when was first introduced to give Tim the role back and now is unclear what going to what to Damian all because Tim as character is so badly written he can't fit anything else 

outside medias now

And
No really if that best points you have when the outside medias then how many actually use actually comic event

Or like cartoons have Tim has different characteristic for actually character in comic so you point still moot plus people that read comic and people that just care about the outside medias are two groups so no that not good argument for dc much Damian development just so Tim can be robin again

I don't know if Damian will be Robin again soon or not, but I don't think they are trying to push Tim as the Robin. I think that maybe a lot of that is related to a lot of weird timing, if you think about it. Damian was originally supposed to give up the mantle in the start of this year,

It still bad writing that dc has plan to muck Damian development.
The problem is not were he is or is robin  if the Tim fan what tim.to be stick and never actually developing as character because he just robin the sidekick to batman fine but that actually problem it how d.c. Did it that problem. They could just made identity like they did for Dick

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## KrustyKid

> *Wow so you arguing bad writing is good now because it help your favourite character*. You have point if the dc don't push Damian development back how was when was first introduced to give Tim the role back and now is unclear what going to what to Damian all because Tim as character is so badly written he can't fit anything else 
> 
> outside medias now
> 
> And
> No really if that best points you have when the outside medias then how many actually use actually comic event
> 
> Or like cartoons have Tim has different characteristic for actually character in comic so you point still moot plus people that read comic and people that just care about the outside medias are two groups so no that not good argument for dc much Damian development just so Tim can be robin again
> And why you rush in here to protect you dame Tim I don't know
> ...


Yah, Korath is not a Tim fan. I can assure you that. And his post was giving Damian props as a character, not the other way around

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## Shadow1322

> Yah, Korath is not a Tim fan. I can assure you that. And his post was giving Damian props as a character, not the other way around


Yes, knowing what d.c. Is doing and that could be the worst possible thing not just for Damian but actually a kid who have complex issue or kid or adults able to get out of gangs or have behaviour issues because people never actually look into the see character in the mainstream They judge from that information so D. C. Outright say Those kids are unchangeable or monster is good how exactly and how given Damian props as a character when his entire character arc witch had an good message is muck up so Tim can be the robin. Kindly explain please

Also, I had more points then just there part you highlighted

You have point if the d.c. don't push Damian development back how was when was first introduced to give Tim the role back and now is unclear what going to what to Damian
Also being it questioned how he was giving Damian props as a character and I agree with him that Damian don't need be robin to develop as a character thought was the fact he stop being robin my issue in the first place sorry should made that clear from the start

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## Jackalope89

> Ah, I want a readers opinion.
> There is a couple o fics that talk about Damian having Asperger's syndrome, there is moments that this make much sense for me, and others that I just fell "it's just Damian creation, he was not taught for speak with common persons".
> What are you guys opinions?


Honestly, one of my biggest pet peeves in fanfics, is when things are added to characters that the writer already can't write. So, I avoid them.

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## KrustyKid

> Yes, knowing what d.c. Is doing and that could be the worst possible thing not just for Damian but actually a kid who have complex issue or kid or adults able to get out of gangs or have behaviour issues because people never actually look into the see character in the mainstream They judge from that information so D. C. Outright say Those kids are unchangeable or monster is good *how exactly and how given Damian props as a character* when his entire character arc witch had an good message is muck up so Tim can be the robin. Kindly explain please
> 
> Also, I had more points then just there part you highlighted
> 
> You have point if the d.c. don't push Damian development back how was when was first introduced to give Tim the role back and now is unclear what going to what to Damian
> Also being it questioned how he was giving Damian props as a character and I agree with him that Damian don't need be robin to develop as a character thought was the fact he stop being robin my issue in the first place sorry should made that clear from the start


'*Damian doesn't really need the Robin mantle*'

The bold part was Korath giving Damian props. He's basically saying Damian is a well developed character who doesn't need to rely on a title or role to press on with success going forward, no matter what mask or emblem is attached to his chest.

Got you on the last part. Damian dropping Robin, and Tim dropping the Drake code-name to become Robin again was quite random, especially from Tim's end. It's clearly editorial mandate, where things lead next for Damian in particular is yet to be seen. Hopefully there is something good at play.

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## Rebeca Armus

> Honestly, one of my biggest pet peeves in fanfics, is when things are added to characters that the writer already can't write. So, I avoid them.


But, fanfics aren't more about develops things that comics don't give attention? like characters insecurities and there is more dialogues, or long POVs, also detailed descriptions of feelings with good comparations.
So ^w^)/ if you don't like fics that added things, what kind do you like (@w@)/ ?
Ah, so for you 0% chance of Damian having asperger?

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## Shadow1322

> '*Damian doesn't really need the Robin mantle*'
> 
> The bold part was Korath giving Damian props. He's basically saying Damian is a well developed character who doesn't need to rely on a title or role to press on with success going forward, no matter what mask or emblem is attached to his chest.
> 
> Got you on the last part. Damian dropping Robin, and Tim dropping the Drake code-name to become Robin again was quite random, especially from Tim's end. It's clearly editorial mandate, where things lead next for Damian in particular is yet to be seen. Hopefully there is something good at play.


"He's basically saying Damian is a well developed character who doesn't need to rely on a title or role to press on with success going forward,"

 Ah then I apologise to both you and him for misunderstood that.

And with you other point here hoping it working out

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## Rebeca Armus

I still prefer Damian having a break from Gotham. Robin is a part of the path, not the final objective.
*Not a break from comics, he with another friend/mentor/or knowing many good helpfull peoples in "solos" adventures are what I would like...
If he take all his super pets with him would be more cheerful, he could not has a house, but with his pets anyplace would be a home.
And now I can't take Klarion of my head, I read a couple of his apparitions, he is like a stubborn/ spoiled Damian's begin. I would love see Damian being pissed of by noticing they look like each other X'D.
And both have/like cats.

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## Shadow1322

> I still prefer Damian having a break from Gotham. Robin is a part of the path, not the final objective.
> *Not a break from comics, he with another friend/mentor/or knowing many good helpfull peoples in "solos" adventures are what I would like...
> If he take all his super pets with him would be more cheerful, he could not has a house, but with his pets anyplace would be a home.
> And now I can't take Klarion of my head, I read a couple of his apparitions, he is like a stubborn/ spoiled Damian's begin. I would love see Damian being pissed of by noticing they look like each other X'D.
> And both have/like cats.


Like dick or any of characters that part of barman story less something like them join teen titans were not actually leave Gotham but part another group and can move back forward for each then I still prefer Damian having a break from Gotham is never going to happen. Or if does like Jon Kent they character has no actually development outside maybe be supporting character so it really was not that big of a deal to overall story.

Also dc changing how doing it comics and you idea of removing Damian for Gotham with no attachment to any of other big hero would remove him.

s, he with another friend/mentor/or knowing many good helpfull peoples in "solos" adventures are what I would lik

Again what you believe will work is not true is best for the character especially when say character has set character arc with set group and mentor and friend the point is fix Damian issue not give the writers more way to muck up his character. And solo comic are less like for next while for most characters

*Not a break from comics

His storyline at moment centre in Gotham and around barman . It centre Gotham for a while especially as the character is young

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## Rebeca Armus

> Like dick or any of characters that part of batman story less something like them joins teen titans were not actually leave Gotham but part another group and can move back forward for each then I still prefer Damian having a break from Gotham is never going to happen. Or if does like Jon Kent they character has no actually development outside maybe be supporting character so it really was not that big of a deal to overall story.
> 
> Also dc changing how doing it comics and you idea of removing Damian for Gotham with no attachment to any of other big hero would remove him.
> 
> s, he with another friend/mentor/or knowing many good helpfull peoples in "solos" adventures are what I would lik
> 
> Again what you believe will work is not true is best for the character especially when say character has set character arc with set group and mentor and friend the point is fix Damian issue not give the writers more way to muck up his character. And solo comic are less like for next while for most characters
> 
> *Not a break from comics
> ...


Damian's first TT wasn't in San Francisco?
But, for example, Robin - Son of Batman is a story that's not inside Gotham, he appears there sometimes, but the central idea is Damian, Maya, and his past before Batman. If a new solo gets 6 issues, Damian would stay 6 months way from Gotham (that makes sense with all he said), and keep showing up for the readers.
*Super sons adventures also happened just in space.
I just can't see how Damian would suddenly becoming Robin again, also would be better for his development.

And, about becoming like Jon and being just a support character: I am accepting anything (^U^)/ 
I just don't want him disappearing.

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## Jackalope89

> *But, fanfics aren't more about develops things that comics don't give attention? like characters insecurities and there is more dialogues, or long POVs, also detailed descriptions of feelings with good comparations.*
> So ^w^)/ if you don't like fics that added things, what kind do you like (@w@)/ ?
> Ah, so for you 0% chance of Damian having asperger?


Not necessarily. They can also be used to expand upon or introduce new adventures. Often times, for me, that would be crossovers. Like seeing how character A from this franchise interacts with character C from another franchise. Like "Multiversal Constant" on AO3 is about the Super Sons, during their original run when they got done helping that one planet, accidentally end up on the Young Justice (season 1) Earth instead of their own. Its an expansion what's already there, but not in a way that completely alters the character.

You could say I'm one of those extremely picky readers; I gloss over most stories and only read a select few. Things like angst, smut, slash, etc are what I purposefully avoid. If writers want to write that, fine. But I won't read it. Its not my thing.

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## Rebeca Armus

> Not necessarily. They can also be used to expand upon or introduce new adventures. Often times, for me, that would be crossovers. Like seeing how character A from this franchise interacts with character C from another franchise. Like "Multiversal Constant" on AO3 is about the Super Sons, during their original run when they got done helping that one planet, accidentally end up on the Young Justice (season 1) Earth instead of their own. Its an expansion what's already there, but not in a way that completely alters the character.
> 
> You could say I'm one of those extremely picky readers; I gloss over most stories and only read a select few. Things like angst, smut, slash, etc are what I purposefully avoid. If writers want to write that, fine. But I won't read it. Its not my thing.


Is the opposite for me, "crossover" is one of the first things I exclude when I look for fics, but I will try to read this one you wrote above ^w^/
I like to read fanfics with good characters relationships like #brucewayneisagoodfather.
Or, very opposite again, mature fics.

Yeah, fics have many "if writers want to write that, fine. But I won't read it. Its not my thing." '^-^

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## KrustyKid

> "He's basically saying Damian is a well developed character who doesn't need to rely on a title or role to press on with success going forward,"
> 
>  Ah then I apologise to both you and him for misunderstood that.
> 
> And with you other point here hoping it working out


Hoping the same

----------


## Fergus

> I don't see Damian getting back to Robin any time soon. Wouldn't make sense when WB is clearly pushing Tim as *the* Robin in outside medias now - probably because they've realized that it's his most recognizable feature and he isn't really suited for another identity, when Damian doesn't really need the Robin mantle.


WB isn't pushing Tim in outside media if they were then Tim in GK would be Tim not Damian. The fact that Tim is Damian shows which Robin they are pushing.

WB isn't a charity. 

Robin is Tim's most recognisable id? To who? A handful of Comic fans because gamers and the casuals don't have a clue who Tim [It actually sad watching the reactions to GK on Youtube] If Tim is so recognisable then why is he Damian?

Tim isn't suited for Robin either. Tim was the Robin that broke up the Dynamic Duo. The independent Robin.

Robin these days is the face of TT and Titans that is robins most prominent and profitable role. Tim isn't any of that. That is Dick Grayson.

Tim went back to robin in Young justice which was a huge bust.

Robin is carry Tim these days and I don't think that's what WB or AT&T have in mind. This isn't a charity.

Damian has been successful as Robin. He is more recognisable in the role.

Damian makes so much more money for WB. I'm sure that some at Dc were trying to ruin Damian and squeeze him out [ this is the 2nd time a Robin has been thrown under the bus for the benefit of Tim Drake] but the decision isn't just there's.

No one who knows anything about business will swap Damian for Tim. Only a fanboy obsessed with nostalgia would do that

----------


## Korath

You do know that it's Tim in Gotham Knights, right ? Down to gadgets and all that jazz which is distinctly non-Damian.

----------


## Fergus

> You do know that it's Tim in Gotham Knights, right ? Down to gadgets and all that jazz which is distinctly non-Damian.


When you saw that robin did you think Tim or Damian?

----------


## Masterff

> WB isn't pushing Tim in outside media if they were then Tim in GK would be Tim not Damian. The fact that Tim is Damian shows which Robin they are pushing.
> 
> WB isn't a charity. 
> 
> Robin is Tim's most recognisable id? To who? A handful of Comic fans because gamers and the casuals don't have a clue who Tim [It actually sad watching the reactions to GK on Youtube] If Tim is so recognisable then why is he Damian?
> 
> Tim isn't suited for Robin either. Tim was the Robin that broke up the Dynamic Duo. The independent Robin.
> 
> Robin these days is the face of TT and Titans that is robins most prominent and profitable role. Tim isn't any of that. That is Dick Grayson.
> ...



I dont know what you are talking about**:

1. You CLEARLY recognize that TIM is in Gotham Knights, Tim is the Robin with the Bo Staff and you see him using the Bo.
Damian is smaller than Tim and he wears a cowl.

2. The Robin who was used in all the Arkham Games was TIM DRAKE and NOT!!!! Damian Wayne.

Tim is recognised by ALL GAMERS and CASUALS because he was the Robin in ALL the Batman Games so far (except Injustice).

----------


## Shadow1322

> Damian's first TT wasn't in San Francisco?
> But, for example, Robin - Son of Batman is a story that's not inside Gotham, he appears there sometimes, but the central idea is Damian, Maya, and his past before Batman. If a new solo gets 6 issues, Damian would stay 6 months way from Gotham (that makes sense with all he said), and keep showing up for the readers.
> *Super sons adventures also happened just in space.
> I just can't see how Damian would suddenly becoming Robin again, also would be better for his development.
> 
> And, about becoming like Jon and being just a support character: I am accepting anything (^U^)/ 
> I just don't want him disappearing.


I not really work under point he will or won't be robin. Damian could be different identify and suit and still be able work alongside batman 


Robin - Son of Batman 
Outside the fact the son batman serve a set point to end Damian arc that being going on which in general Damian had no real arc in rebirth after set point and this would still not actually fix the issue around Damian writing which i.point out many time to you.


. If a new solo gets 6 issues, Damian would stay 6 months way from Gotham (that makes sense with all he said


He back next month which probably given ending to issue with Bruce and Damian and it  set just after joker war. I mean right after it for the wording.

I just can't see how Damian would suddenly becoming Robin again, also would be better for his development

We're made robin again right away it not my issue but him.And Bruce fix this issue and the writers find a way push Damian back into his previous that they muck up is my issue. 

solo gets 6 issues,

And dc with few post and new information they were  unlike to do solo comic for near future for most character but Again son.of batman serve a set point and they should not keep repeating this point because some like these moments

Also I think you misunderstood point outside fact I rather this train wreck of a storyline that happening with Damian ended so hopeful they do more interesting thing with the character. You ask for could have be done before 2nd teen titans annual to better set up the development and full the gaps in the writing

----------


## J. D. Guy

> When you saw that robin did you think Tim or Damian?


Yeah. When I saw the first screenshots, all I knew was that it could be either or at that point. With how DC and wider media have no issue "borrowing" from each Robin as they see fit, it really was a tossup. It wasn't until later when someone mentioned that they had confirmed it was Tim (which wasn't confirmed right away during the initial reveal) that I knew they were going with the name of "Tim" but with Damian's costume aesthetic and original crew-cut hairstyle.

----------


## Konja7

> You do know that it's Tim in Gotham Knights, right ? Down to gadgets and all that jazz which is distinctly non-Damian.


I want to mention that it was the creators of the game who choose Tim for Gotham Knights. They want to develop this character in that story (it is even possible Tim will left the Robin mantle at the end of the story). 

They are also the creators of Arkham Games, where they also have Tim as Robin. 

So, it doesn't seem that WB was really pushing Tim in this situation.

----------


## Yennefer

> I dont know what you are talking about**:
> 
> 1. You CLEARLY recognize that TIM is in Gotham Knights, Tim is the Robin with the Bo Staff and you see him using the Bo.
> Damian is smaller than Tim and he wears a cowl.
> 
> 2. The Robin who was used in all the Arkham Games was TIM DRAKE and NOT!!!! Damian Wayne.
> 
> Tim is recognised by ALL GAMERS and CASUALS because he was the Robin in ALL the Batman Games so far (except Injustice).


Can you relax a bit?
It's just a fictional character and it doesn't matter, in the end, who is who in that game. And yes, "TIM" is not *the* Tim in GK. Apart from the Bo and the hood (that Damian wears) the costume and the hair scream Damian.

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## Yennefer

I agree that the best thing we can do is to wait for the detective comics.
About something else... I haven't understood something: Is a reboot near in the way? If yes, do you think it's possible for DC to wipe out characters like Duke and Damian from the main continuity? 
Will they write Damian differently?

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## Yennefer

Guys, I recently watched the "V for Vendetta"... The movie. And seeing V... His general style, advanced vocabulary, precision in martial arts, his class, the books, the old soul and the mask.... I thought Damian. Like, if Damian was an adult, I believe his *aesthetic* (I am not talking about V's ideology) would be of V's. 
What do you think?

----------


## Light of Justice

> I want to mention that it was the creators of the game who choose Tim for Gotham Knights. They want to develop this character in that story (it is even possible Tim will left the Robin mantle at the end of the story). 
> 
> They are also the creators of Arkham Games, where they also have Tim as Robin. 
> 
> So, it doesn't seem that WB was really pushing Tim in this situation.


I don't like games in general so I really don't know how storytelling on game work, so if we choose Tim as our character, we will explore Tim's story on the game? About Damian on that game, I think they will retell Damian's origin on that game, like some kind of quest to save Bruce's blood son from LoA. But on the other hand the game placed mainly on Gotham so I don't know if they will bring LoA to Gotham or the main four will teleport to Infinity Island.
(Ha look at me, talking about game when the only game I've ever finished is Cooking Academy. Forgives me if I've made a mistake with my noobness)

----------


## Light of Justice

> I agree that the best thing we can do is to wait for the detective comics.
> About something else... I haven't understood something: Is a reboot near in the way? If yes, do you think it's possible for DC to wipe out characters like Duke and Damian from the main continuity? 
> Will they write Damian differently?


I think it's impossible to wipe out Damian from main continuity. His animated movie series are well accepted, he's kinda popular on Injustice (yes, he's popular as Dick's killer but still), he has graphic novel (yes, it's Ian Wayne not our Damian but still), and his character are considered fresh and full of potential story (and feeding Batman angst). At least I don't think DC will remove him before making crappy stories about him getting girlfriend. Duke is kinda more possible to get wiped out, but his existence is safe as long as Synder stays, except if Synder gets Morrison muse and want to kill his own creation.
They always write Damian differently from one story to another. His character is kinda grey, so it's hard for writers to have one absolute agreement of his characterization, they will have their own perception about how to write Damian properly. 

I've heard that it's not reboot that will come, but relaunch.

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## Yennefer

> I think it's impossible to wipe out Damian from main continuity. His animated movie series are well accepted, he's kinda popular on Injustice (yes, he's popular as Dick's killer but still), he has graphic novel (yes, it's Ian Wayne not our Damian but still), and his character are considered fresh and full of potential story (and feeding Batman angst). At least I don't think DC will remove him before making crappy stories about him getting girlfriend. Duke is kinda more possible to get wiped out, but his existence is safe as long as Synder stays, except if Synder gets Morrison muse and want to kill his own creation.
> They always write Damian differently from one story to another. His character is kinda grey, so it's hard for writers to have one absolute agreement of his characterization, they will have their own perception about how to write Damian properly. 
> 
> I've heard that it's not reboot that will come, but relaunch.


Is the relaunch worse?? What do you mean?

----------


## Morgoth

> If yes, do you think it's possible for DC to wipe out characters like Duke and Damian from the main continuity?


No. Why should they do that?

----------


## Shadow1322

> I think it's impossible to wipe out Damian from main continuity. His animated movie series are well accepted, he's kinda popular on Injustice (yes, he's popular as Dick's killer but still), he has graphic novel (yes, it's Ian Wayne not our Damian but still), and his character are considered fresh and full of potential story (and feeding Batman angst). At least I don't think DC will remove him before making crappy stories about him getting girlfriend. Duke is kinda more possible to get wiped out, but his existence is safe as long as Synder stays, except if Synder gets Morrison muse and want to kill his own creation.
> They always write Damian differently from one story to another. His character is kinda grey, so it's hard for writers to have one absolute agreement of his characterization, they will have their own perception about how to write Damian properly. 
> 
> I've heard that it's not reboot that will come, but relaunch.


 I think it's impossible to wipe out Damian from main continuity.

Yet you list off points from outside the main continuity.
 :Confused: 

They always write Damian differently from one story to another. His character is kinda grey

 Damian from main continuity
Outside the teen titans has not been written differently from one story to another his story arc was the same and using story outside the main continuity don't go against that point . And whatever your point was  with the character is kind of grey is lost to me

Also no I didn't think he be removed from the  main continuity or dc in general

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## Blue22

Man, Damian not being here for this just feels like a punch to the gut after being hugged. Whatever direction DC decides to go with him, I hope he and Dick can at least get the reunion they deserve.

----------


## Frontier

> Man, Damian not being here for this just feels like a punch to the gut after being hugged. Whatever direction DC decides to go with him, I hope he and Dick can at least get the reunion they deserve.


Does he ask about Damian at all? Because he probably would (and then get an awkward silence). And then he'd bring up Alfred...

Ha, he even brings up how it felt like they acted like he didn't exist  :Stick Out Tongue: .

----------


## Blue22

> Does he ask about Damian at all? Because he probably would (and then get an awkward silence). And then he'd bring up Alfred...


The most acknowledgement we get for Damian is a hallucination of him being one of the people to help bring Dick to his senses.




> Ha, he even brings up how it felt like they acted like he didn't exist


Just for the very next page to reveal that Bruce has actually been stalking Ric this whole time and was just giving him space to "find his way back on his own". Which I still call bullshit on. Your son was shot in the head, Bruce. He is literally brain damaged and you had more than enough resources to fix him. That was not the time to let him go on some self destructive journey to find himself XD

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## Light of Justice

> I think it's impossible to wipe out Damian from main continuity.
> 
> Yet you list off points from outside the main continuity.


My point is he has many exposure, and he sells much money on most of them (I don't know how much Ian Wayne sells and I don't want to know). Those exposure will bring new fans, and DC can't put him out of continuity or they will risk losing his new fans and his old fans. 




> They always write Damian differently from one story to another. His character is kinda grey
> 
>  Damian from main continuity
> Outside the teen titans has not been written differently from one story to another his story arc was the same and using story outside the main continuity don't go against that point . And whatever your point was  with the character is kind of grey is lost to me.


I know I shouldn't use "grey" word, sorry it's kinda hard for me to depict it. It's not only about his morality between Al Ghul tutelage and Batman's lesson, which is also often different depend on the writer, but also with his attitude. Like, Damian's attitude is somewhat between childish bratty behavior and forced maturity and the way to balance that is depend on the writers. Take this for example. Seeley is one of people who wrote good Damian, and he wrote him loves game like Cheese Viking. This gaming aspect attached to him like on DC holiday with Jon, or Flash issue when Barry recalling Wallace playing game together with Damian and the rest of current TT. But Gleason disagree on that. In his opinion, Damian will see game as beneath him and will not like it because it's waste of his time. And we can't say either one of them is wrong, because in the end, writers have the right to have different perspective about Damian.

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## the1&onlyE.

It really is sad that Damian wasn't there.  :Frown:  But I am sure they will eventually reunite! I'm not sure if it will be in Nightwing or in Detective Comics, but it will happen! 

And at least he made a little appearance in this panel:

nightwing.jpg

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## Frontier

> It really is sad that Damian wasn't there.  But I am sure they will eventually reunite! I'm not sure if it will be in Nightwing or in Detective Comics, but it will happen! 
> 
> And at least he made a little appearance in this panel:
> 
> nightwing.jpg


Is that Donna?

----------


## Blue22

> Is that Donna?


The Michael Jackson lookin' one, right next to Damian? Yeah, that's her.

----------


## Light of Justice

> The most acknowledgement we get for Damian is a hallucination of him being one of the people to help bring Dick to his senses.
> 
> 
> 
> Just for the very next page to reveal that Bruce has actually been stalking Ric this whole time and was just giving him space to "find his way back on his own". Which I still call bullshit on. Your son was shot in the head, Bruce. He is literally brain damaged and you had more than enough resources to fix him. That was not the time to let him go on some self destructive journey to find himself XD


Oh come on, let your son go on some self destructive journey to find himself is always good method of parenting, right Bruce?
RCO019_1582253353.jpg

----------


## Morgoth

> Whatever direction DC decides to go with him, I hope he and Dick can at least get the reunion they deserve.


Probably Tomasi's 'Tec, Batfamily was mentioned in solicits of this storyline.

----------


## Digifiend

The events of Teen Titans (as well as Young Justice) is all Reverse Flash's fault. He hypnotised Wallace into letting Damian get away with his antics (he also tricked Bart into bringing back YJ instead of the Flash Family). Without Thawne's meddling, Wallace would've probably reined Damian in before it was too late.

----------


## Blue22

So that's just one more thing I can go ahead and blame Wallace for XD

----------


## Shadow1322

> The events of Teen Titans (as well as Young Justice) is all Reverse Flash's fault. He hypnotised Wallace into letting Damian get away with his antics (he also tricked Bart into bringing back YJ instead of the Flash Family). Without Thawne's meddling, Wallace would've probably reined Damian in before it was too late.


Well that good I think :Confused: 

But what if they fix it I don't read much flash sorry

----------


## Frontier

> So that's just one more thing I can go ahead and blame Wallace for XD


In this instance it would be more fair to blame Thawne for making Wallace act this way.

----------


## OpaqueGiraffe17

Isn't Eobard also the one behind Flashpoint Thomas being unleashed on the main timeline? Making him indirectly responsible for Alfred's death and everything. 
F6E23E0B-5321-400C-8556-1781D49D11BB.jpg
is anything not this guy's fault?

----------


## Jackalope89

> Isn't Eobard also the one behind Flashpoint Thomas being unleashed on the main timeline? Making him indirectly responsible for Alfred's death and everything. 
> F6E23E0B-5321-400C-8556-1781D49D11BB.jpg
> is anything not this guy's fault?


Flashpoint. That was partly Barry's fault and a naked blue dude.

----------


## Digifiend

That was all Manhattan. Barry only thought he was to blame, until the truth was revealed in Rebirth.

----------


## Fergus

> The events of Teen Titans (as well as Young Justice) is all Reverse Flash's fault. He hypnotised Wallace into letting Damian get away with his antics (he also tricked Bart into bringing back YJ instead of the Flash Family). Without Thawne's meddling, Wallace would've probably reined Damian in before it was too late.


What makes anyone think that Wallace could rein Damian in? We've seen Wallace try before and fail.

Damian is responsible for his actions.

The irony is that this new development/excuse makes it difficult for Damian to leave Robin. It implies that he needs supervision and his father.

----------


## Jackalope89

> That was all Manhattan. Barry only thought he was to blame, until the truth was revealed in Rebirth.


...Nah. Barry likes messing with timelines too much.

----------


## Blue22

> In this instance it would be more fair to blame Thawne for making Wallace act this way.

----------


## OpaqueGiraffe17

> ...Nah. Barry likes messing with timelines too much.


still blame Thawne for killing Nora in the first place, all Flash did was try to fix the timeline Thawne broke. I mean what else is that yellow psycho responsible for? Hiring Joe Chill? Destroying Krypton? Hijacking Damian Wayne's appreciation thread?!?!

----------


## Shadow1322

> What makes anyone think that Wallace could rein Damian in? We've seen Wallace try before and fail.
> 
> Damian is responsible for his actions.
> 
> The irony is that this new development/excuse makes it difficult for Damian to leave Robin. It implies that he needs supervision and his father.


How about no

Also he 13   It implies that he needs supervision and his father. Yes no fudge

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## Eckri

> still blame Thawne for killing Nora in the first place, all Barry did was try to fix the timeline Thawne broke. I mean what else is that yellow psycho responsible for? Hiring Joe Chill? Destroying Krypton? Hijacking Damian Wayne's appreciation thread?!?!


It was me [Character] I [Insert something villainous] did that you.
I'm laughing. 
Thawne did everything, he caused Dick to become Ric, he caused Tim to become Drake, he caused Jon to age up, he made the Bat-Cat dialogue for City of Bane (To be fair he did bring Thomas Wayne, he is fully responsible for that), he caused the cancellation of that one Young Justice series, and responsible for Damian not having a constant supporting cast of friends. 

Man, the Thawne jokes are killing me.

----------


## Blue22

> It was me [Character] I [Insert something villainous] did that you.
> I'm laughing. 
> Thawne did everything, he caused Dick to become Ric, he caused Tim to become Drake, he caused Jon to age up, he made the Bat-Cat dialogue for City of Bane (To be fair he did bring Thomas Wayne, he is fully responsible for that), he caused the cancellation of that one Young Justice series, and responsible for Damian not having a constant supporting cast of friends. 
> 
> Man, the Thawne jokes are killing me.


We might as well blame Thawne for all the grim-dark events of the early 2000s while we're at it. #ThawneDidIdentityCrisis

----------


## Eckri

Just read the recent Flash issue, Wally West's kids are back, Irey and Jai are back. 
Does this mean, just a little chance, we get that one cancelled Young Justice team. 
Supergirl (Kara Zor-El)
Batgirl (Stephanie Brown)
Robin (Damian Wayne)
Impulse (Irey West)
Blue Beetle (Jaime Reyes)
Miss Martian (Megan Morse)
Static Shock (Virgil Hawkins)

----------


## Blue22

> Just read the recent Flash issue, Wally West's kids are back, Irey and Jai are back. 
> Does this mean, just a little chance, we get that one cancelled Young Justice team. 
> Supergirl (Kara Zor-El)
> Batgirl (Stephanie Brown)
> Robin (Damian Wayne)
> Impulse (Irey West)
> Blue Beetle (Jaime Reyes)
> Miss Martian (Megan Morse)
> Static Shock (Virgil Hawkins)


As awesome as it would be, I think the ship has sailed on that. Especially with Steph pretty much following Tim everywhere he goes. And I really don't think Wallace would even let Irey anywhere near Damian right now lol.

Depending on how the future of this character goes, he might not be a viable option for anymore teams. Least not for a while.

----------


## Fergus

> How about no
> 
> Also he 13   It implies that he needs supervision and his father. Yes no fudge


Damian since before the age of 10 has been independent. The idea that he needs someone to rein him in is insulting and regresses the character all the way back to before his year of Blood.

He might be 13 but he has been commanding forces since before he joined the Batfamily.

Like it or not the idea that Wallace is in anyway responsible for Damian deciding that he needs to find a better solution or for his actions is contradicted by every single Damian story ever written.

The year he spent alone in the new52 proves that Damian minus Bruce is a healthier and more positive Damian.

----------


## Shadow1322

> Damian since before the age of 10 has been independent. The idea that he needs someone to rein him in is insulting and regresses the character all the way back to before his year of Blood.
> 
> He might be 13 but he has been commanding forces since before he joined the Batfamily.
> 
> Like it or not the idea that Wallace is in anyway responsible for Damian deciding that he needs to find a better solution or for his actions is contradicted by every single Damian story ever written.
> 
> The year he spent alone in the new52 proves that Damian minus Bruce is a healthier and more positive Damian.


Damian since before the age of 10 has been independent. The idea that he needs someone to rein him in is insulting and regresses the character all the way back to before his year of Blood.

No the teen titans run did that although by throwing away entire development and regresses his entire character back to when first show up so Tim could be the robin now it look like they just try fix that issues without muck the fact Tim is robin again so regresses his entire character it already happen before the try fix this issue. You just like his they try to fix it so I don't really care

He might be 13 but he has been commanding forces since before he joined the Batfamily.


Commanding forces yes, however that doesn't change the fact that he was and is young and WA age 10 age first appearance and that he was abused or that dick help push development as a character so your point is rather stupid because his commanding forces was used as a point against his character when show up Because he don't understand Bruce ways


Like it or not the idea that Wallace is in anyway responsible for Damian deciding that he needs to find a better solution or for his actions is contradicted by every single Damian story ever written

It's not really Damian had always developed by have someone build him or push him away from the darkness. Dick and Bruce are two top examples actually teen titans contradicted Damian arc because he should be past the point outright killing by now


Is perfect no. But it was something to hopeful fix the mess that was Damian character arc after writer and editorial so get off you high horse


The year he spent alone in the new52 proves that Damian minus Bruce is a healthier and more positive Damian.

You mean the story and his arc and need him be with Bruce and learn from Bruce and Dick to even work that year he spent alone, but that was made useless with the teen titans storyline as he way against all of his past development not just point you dislike but every point from new 52

So yes the teen titans have set Damian back to point that he needs supervision and his father. Or someone supervision him and pushes his development you again just going to have deal with that. Especially because it could be far worse, so this best possible point if turn out this way

----------


## dietrich

> Damian since before the age of 10 has been independent. The idea that he needs someone to rein him in is insulting and regresses the character all the way back to before his year of Blood.
> 
> No the teen titans run did although by throw away entire development and
>  regresses his entire character back to when first show up so Tim could be the robin now it look like they just try fix that issues without muck the fact Tim is robin again so regresses his entire character it already happen before the try fix this issue. You just like his they try fix it well I don't really care.
> 
> He might be 13 but he has been commanding forces since before he joined the Batfamily.
> 
> 
> commanding forces yes but that change the fact he child  at age 10 or that he was abused or that dick help out development as character so you point with stupid point because his commanding forces was used as point against his character when show up Because he don't understand Bruce ways.
> ...


You are 100% incorrect.

TT did not regress Damian's character. He made a mistake that is normal and to be expected.

Change isn't easy and if you think that this is the last time Damian is going to stumble then you are in for a surprise. Nightwing Annual Damian asked Bruce if he killed KGBeast for example.

TT actually evolved Damian's character. For the 1st time he is trying things his way. Not his mother's, Dick's or Batman's. That is growth.

He learnt no to kidnap TM's and he went back into hell for a TM.

Damian isn't the 1st character that has gotten shitty writing and he won't be the last so suck it up and quit looking for a way to excuse it.
it sucks but it happens.

Flash absolved Wallace of his part in the TT events it did not absolve Damian. It did not say if Wallace hadn't been brainwashed he would have stooped Damian or that the events wouldn't have happened.

Damian's intent alone already has him in the wrong and guilty. 
You might think that Wallace reining Damian in is a positive but it isn't.

If Damian isn't responsible for his bad deeds then who do we praise for his heroic deeds?

Expecting a Tm to rein him in robs him of his agency and renders him incompetent.

Damian should make mistakes. A character that never makes mistakes never grows. Damian sticking to the light, never backsliding 3 years after deciding to becoming a hero and change his ways is bollocks.

That isn't believable even for comics. Like you said he was abused and conditioned meaning that change for him is going to be extra hard.

Damian should still struggle with the whole not killing honestly and in canon we know for a fact that he still considers it eg Nightwing Rebirth where he suggests killing Robinatron.

This was years before Glass.

It sucks what happened in the last TT run and how poorly it was all done but Damian is responsible [Rebirth Deathstroke we even saw Wallace try to talk him around]

Damian will recover. Heck DCeased reaches more readers than TT and comes out more frequently so there's more positive Damian out there.

Also wrong on Damian needing someone to keep him from the dark [what a way to rob the character for all the good he hasx done and how far he has come]

Damian decided to become a hero of his own freewill. He was a solo hero in Gotham before he became Robin or joined the Bats - That is on Damian

Damian has given his life twice to save others. That's more than any other Bat character and he wasn't prompted or guided into doing it by anyone - That's all Damian

Damian went to hell and when he came back he still carried on fighting because it's worth it. He went back into hell to save a Tm - that's Damian

Damian went on a trip around the world to make amends for his past deeds. He earned his Redemption himself. No one had to suggest or influence him. - That's Damian

Damian offered his life for tm's who did not care for him. No one influenced him - That's all Damian

Damian keeps himself from the dark thank you very much.

Damian since rebirth has suggested killing twice and both of those times he was with Bruce and working with Dick. So again Damian is responsible for his actions and while he has had mentors along the way his mind and his heroic journey is all his own and his desire,

----------


## Astralabius

> You are 100% incorrect.
> 
> TT did not regress Damian's character. He made a mistake that is normal and to be expected.
> 
> Change isn't easy and if you think that this is the last time Damian is going to stumble then you are in for a surprise. Nightwing Annual Damian asked Bruce if he killed KGBeast for example.
> 
> TT actually evolved Damian's character. For the 1st time he is trying things his way. Not his mother's, Dick's or Batman's. That is growth.
> 
> He learnt no to kidnap TM's and he went back into hell for a TM.
> ...


Buddy, Damian suggested commiting mass murder to "create a world without crime".
This isn't his own way, that is a page straight out of Ra's book.
You people just keep telling yourselfs that Damian is an "anti-hero" and not a villain for thinking and acting like this because you like the character.
Teen Titans made it pretty clear Damian wasn't a hero in any kind of way for his actions, the book hits you over the head with that fact.

He needs to be reigned in and fast. If Damian's ideas on his own lead to him commiting crimes against humanity he shouldn't be left unsupervised.

----------


## Digifiend

> As awesome as it would be, I think the ship has sailed on that. Especially with Steph pretty much following Tim everywhere he goes. And I really don't think Wallace would even let Irey anywhere near Damian right now lol.
> 
> Depending on how the future of this character goes, he might not be a viable option for anymore teams. Least not for a while.


Also, Steph's time as Robin is back in continuity, but NOT her time as Batgirl.

----------


## Shadow1322

> Buddy, Damian suggested commiting mass murder to "create a world without crime".
> This isn't his own way, that is a page straight out of Ra's book.
> You people just keep telling yourselfs that Damian is an "anti-hero" and not a villain for thinking and acting like this because you like the character.
> Teen Titans made it pretty clear Damian wasn't a hero in any kind of way for his actions, the book hits you over the head with that fact.
> 
> He needs to be reigned in and fast. If Damian's ideas on his own lead to him commiting crimes against humanity he shouldn't be left unsupervised.


Damian suggested commiting mass murder to "create a world without crime".

Where point to comic so I get context


This isn't his own way, that is a page straight out of Ra's book.
Editors 


You people just keep telling yourselfs that Damian is an "anti-hero" and not a villain for thinking and acting like this because you like the character.

Or up to point Teen titans Damian arc was him become hero then what off rail for no Actually reason

:



Teen Titans made it pretty clear Damian wasn't a hero in any kind of way for his actions, the book hits you over the head with that fact.

You mean teen titans that goal with Damian was to with given up robin role and this choose was made editor not the actual writers great example 

Also in teen titans 2nd annual if Damian was villain why did batman not fight him but try talk him clear "He needs to be reigned in and fast. If Damian's ideas on his own lead to him commiting crimes against humanity he shouldn't be left unsupervised." That what aiming for us not for barman beat up like rest of the villain then Damian say he was wrong and be a better son

Because it blood brother who I remember be the character was going to comment mass murder but not I say Damian was right or wrong

----------


## Eckri

> And I really don't think Wallace would even let Irey anywhere near Damian right now lol.


Now, if they mention that time that Damian ninja heart punched past Wally into making present Wally into having a pacemaker, damaging his heart. 
Oh man, I can see it now. Irey and Jai on Damian's bat butt for what they did to their dad. Along with Dick and Wally preventing the two from getting Damian so beat up like Bruce on a serious Gotham night,

----------


## Shadow1322

> You are 100% incorrect.
> 
> TT did not regress Damian's character. He made a mistake that is normal and to be expected.
> 
> Change isn't easy and if you think that this is the last time Damian is going to stumble then you are in for a surprise. Nightwing Annual Damian asked Bruce if he killed KGBeast for example.
> 
> TT actually evolved Damian's character. For the 1st time he is trying things his way. Not his mother's, Dick's or Batman's. That is growth.
> 
> He learnt no to kidnap TM's and he went back into hell for a TM.
> ...


TT did not regress Damian's character. He made a mistake that is normal and to be expected.

How the fudge can you say that. I don't know how as Damian closer to his original characteristics. As even when Damian is shown making mistake in the other story he never move backward in that since or don't have the effect it teen titans may have with his character in long run when it come to how Damian is written .

Change isn't easy and if you think that this is the last time Damian is going to stumble then you are in for a surprise. Nightwing Annual Damian asked Bruce if he killed KGBeast for example.

that not issue. No issue is that those points were never set up into his characteristic or development in the teen titans run because that was never the point. Damian end up looking much worse and never if his actions were supposed to be a mistake then, the writer ended up making him look more like a villain.

Damian will recover. Heck DCeased reaches more readers than TT and comes out more frequently so there's more positive Damian out there.

DCeased reaches more readers than TT
I don't know we're that true but that not point one i.e. TT is part of the main continuity so expect better then regress Damian's character is obvious and should not need point out and have a character fail or make mistake is fine but not what happened in teen titans to Damia.n so let not act like  that what happened

Also if you help Damian as character It sucks what happened in the last TT run and how poorly it was all done but Damian is responsible 

Wow you understand the writing was poor so may you can say Damian is responsible 
But I can't and can't with understand that Damian was only written this way  to lost robin and has dc is fix the character to act like they won't fix Damian is your opinion because I say he be robin again I say fix the writing the choice they made that when against his development so as I probably say many time you arguing may sound good to you but I still disagree with you

there's more positive Damian out there
I am talking about Damian main continuity character arc not different Damian for other comic and. I unsure how this point  mean Damian will recover more then teen titans point not having Bruce attack Damian and to be fair a lot your point are try argue point from thing you misread or misunderstood from the story




Also wrong on Damian needing someone to keep him from the dark [what a way to rob the character for all the good he hasx done and how far he has come]

Damian is 13 in the comic and he learnt for Bruce and other. Yes he did thing by himself, but needing someone to keep him from the dark don't rob him of anything and say that it do is such bad message as everyone's need help some point. There no shame in saying that, but especially not with a kid the difficult that Damian has are you say should handle these issue with no adult supports or guidance

Damian decided to become a hero of his own freewill. He was a solo hero in Gotham before he became Robin or joined the Bats - That is on Damian

No actually he did not because that be one hell of an inconsistent even for comic to hand wave away. Damian was  bad at being a hero when he first started that what make his development as a hero so interesting and the importance that he started off as something opposite to a hero. Yes I know I probably explain this well.


Damian has given his life twice to save others. That's more than any other Bat character and he wasn't prompted or guided into doing it by anyone - That's all Damian

that ... Cool but he also had learn to be that way or saying Damian that tried to kill Tim could given his life twice to save others. Right at start with no actually development because you going need have good argument for that case
Damian keeps himself from the dark thank you very much.
 again misunderstood my point yes just like Zuko did but he need Uncle Iroh  to get point. I don't understand why you against the idea help that character sometime need help

Expecting a Tm to rein him in robs him of his agency and renders him incompetent.


No don't not the greatest example of robs him of his agency was Teen Titans and if character you believe character learn from the mistake in.way do make them out to be villain that in you and made you read outside your  len.

----------


## dietrich

> Buddy, Damian suggested commiting mass murder to "create a world without crime".
> This isn't his own way, that is a page straight out of Ra's book.
> You people just keep telling yourselfs that Damian is an "anti-hero" and not a villain for thinking and acting like this because you like the character.
> Teen Titans made it pretty clear Damian wasn't a hero in any kind of way for his actions, the book hits you over the head with that fact.
> 
> He needs to be reigned in and fast. If Damian's ideas on his own lead to him commiting crimes against humanity he shouldn't be left unsupervised.


Who said Damian was an anti-hero?

This isn't the 1st time Damian has committed awful deeds. He killed while under Bruce's supervision. If Damian needs supervision to stop him committing crimes then he has no business being a hero because that means his heart and will is right for the job. He should be grounded.

Plus the crux of the debate is accountability. Damian is fully responsible for his actions on TT.

If anyone here is waiting for another batman and Robin then you'll be waiting a long time. That isn't something DC/WB is interesting in. Batman doesn't need Robin. That has been hammered in since Rebirth and Robin hasn't been a constant in the Batman book since the 90's.

They are also not keen on Batdad. 

Damian did some bad things and he and fans should own it rather than looking for people to take the blame. I like Damian but I will not make excuses for his actions.

He did those things. He is responsible for all he did in TT.

----------


## dietrich

> TT did not regress Damian's character. He made a mistake that is normal and to be expected.
> 
> How the fudge can you say that. I don't know how as Damian closer to his original characteristics. As even when Damian is shown making mistake in the other story he never move backward in that since or don't have the effect it teen titans may have with his character in long run when it come to how Damian is written .
> 
> Change isn't easy and if you think that this is the last time Damian is going to stumble then you are in for a surprise. Nightwing Annual Damian asked Bruce if he killed KGBeast for example.
> 
> that not issue. No issue is that those points were never set up into his characteristic or development in the teen titans run because that was never the point. Damian end up looking much worse and never if his actions were supposed to be a mistake then, the writer ended up making him look more like a villain.
> 
> Damian will recover. Heck DCeased reaches more readers than TT and comes out more frequently so there's more positive Damian out there.
> ...


Damian was already in gotham and patrolling before Battle for the cowl. He returned by himself after he was sent back so yes he decided to leave the LOA of his own freewill and made the decision to become a hero of his freewill before joining the family and before he became Robin.

I did say he had mentors and yeah he was influenced by Batman and Dick Grayson but they are not what kept him from the dark side. His desire to do good and help the world that desire keeps him from the dark.

It doesn't matter that the story was written to aid him leaving Robin. That is the real world reason. In universe Damian did those things. That is canon and in universe he is responsible.

The Flash writer rescued Wallace and gave a reason for why he stood by and let those things happen without trying harder or leaving the team but he did not do the same for Damian and the rest of the team. Damian is still responsible and the rest of the team are still guilty since they were complacent/were participants.

The Flash issue didn't absolve anyone but Wallace.
It simply gave us a reason for why Wallace was part of team that was violating human rights. It gave a reason for his actions, Damian's action's are still his. He wasn't brainwashed or manipulated [as far as we know] so he is still responsible.

----------


## Shadow1322

> Who said Damian was an anti-hero?
> 
> This isn't the 1st time Damian has committed awful deeds. He killed while under Bruce's supervision. If Damian needs supervision to stop him committing crimes then he has no business being a hero because that means his heart and will is right for the job. He should be grounded.
> 
> Plus the crux of the debate is accountability. Damian is fully responsible for his actions on TT.
> 
> If anyone here is waiting for another batman and Robin then you'll be waiting a long time. That isn't something DC/WB is interesting in. Batman doesn't need Robin. That has been hammered in since Rebirth and Robin hasn't been a constant in the Batman book since the 90's.
> 
> They are also not keen on Batdad. 
> ...


This isn't the 1st time Damian has committed awful deeds. He killed while under Bruce's supervision. If Damian needs supervision to stop him committing crimes then he has no business being a hero because that means his heart and will is right for the job. He should be grounded.

Yes and Damian development from that point .. You what me say on wait that probably happen after team titan... Nope If Damian needs supervision to stop him committing crime actually he should not that fudge point rebirth if that make you happy spit on Damian development so moot point.

he has no business being a hero because that means his heart and will is right for the job.

He had past this point you and few other seem be only few that arguing teen titans writing especially for Damian was good.

Plus the crux of the debate is accountability. Damian is fully responsible for his actions on TT.
To you crux of the debate is accountability  Damian was pass this point and was force down for a stupid reason so.no you don't get say what issue is you can like but that your opinion that not good number of Damian fans.

If anyone here is waiting for another batman and Robin then you'll be waiting a long time. That isn't something DC/WB is interesting in. Batman doesn't need Robin. That has been hammered in since Rebirth and Robin hasn't been a constant in the Batman book since the 90's.

Argue that dc fix his development to point was before they muck up and not have him be removed for bat family is not same another batman and Robin.


They are also not keen on Batdad
They should not writing Damian with complex issue he has again expect the issue to write well and fairly is argument you going be able counter with me

He did those things. He is responsible for all he did in TT
Then you say he evil Bruce being show try help was pointless and make point kid like Damian are also evil and no body should try they because they unchangeable is that correct


Who said Damian was an anti-hero?

That problem what you thought teen titans was paint him as hero? or light no it ether him as anti-hero. Or villain did you expect less the was charge he still be not as show as hero now for good awhile

----------


## Shadow1322

> Damian was already in gotham and patrolling before Battle for the cowl. He returned by himself after he was sent back so yes he decided to leave the LOA of his own freewill and made the decision to become a hero of his freewill before joining the family and before he became Robin.
> 
> I did say he had mentors and yeah he was influenced by Batman and Dick Grayson but they are not what kept him from the dark side. His desire to do good and help the world that desire keeps him from the dark.
> 
> It doesn't matter that the story was written to aid him leaving Robin. That is the real world reason. In universe Damian did those things. That is canon and in universe he is responsible.
> 
> The Flash writer rescued Wallace and gave a reason for why he stood by and let those things happen without trying harder or leaving the team but he did not do the same for Damian and the rest of the team. Damian is still responsible and the rest of the team are still guilty since they were complacent/were participants.
> 
> The Flash issue didn't absolve anyone but Wallace.
> It simply gave us a reason for why Wallace was part of team that was violating human rights. It gave a reason for his actions, Damian's action's are still his. He wasn't brainwashed or manipulated [as far as we know] so he is still responsible.


It doesn't matter that the story was written to aid him leaving Robin. That is the real world reason. In universe Damian did those things. That is canon and in universe he is responsible.

I made comment on my issue but Yes, knowing what d.c. Is doing and that could be the worst possible thing not just for Damian but actually a kid who have complex issue or kid or adults able to get out of gangs or have behaviour issues because people never actually look into the see character in the mainstream They judge from that information so D. C. Outright say Those kids are unchangeable or monster is good how exactly and how given Damian props as a character when his entire character arc witch had an good message is muck up so Tim can be the robin. responsible you don't get throw that word around as weapon hoping it shut people up  that disagree both Damian age and the think he was not ready to be team leader because of his characteristic and issues is enough to point out issue of teen titans and rebirth writing of Damian. However the story use of his issues as way point him.as unchangeable monster is also enough to point the issue with teen titans and rebirth writing 

It does not matter to you 

Damian was already in gotham and patrolling before Battle for the cowl. He returned by himself after he was sent back so yes he decided to leave the LOA of his own freewill 

First as I say inconsistent writing as he not o leave the LOA of his own freewill but patrolling before Battle for the cowl. Less was show to act as did during begin time as robin as again you need learn to deal with idea that character is always the best and other characters help them if they writing with characteristic still part of the process then they learn or development because it is not bad

I did say he had mentors and yeah he was influenced by Batman and Dick Grayson but they are not what kept him from the dark side. His desire to do good and help the world that desire keeps him from the dark.

So you.don't understand what Actually character development. 

His desire to do good 
Was because of growth that he under Dick after they bond start to get develop better same with  help the world that desire keeps him from the dark with his choice from being robin Yes but if he was not s influenced by Batman and Dick Grayson the you really believe Damian would made the same choice.

Damian's action's are still his. He wasn't brainwashed or manipulated [as far as we know] so he is still responsible

So question when Damian the character has been removed for all group attach to batman and has no actually ability to be written in any further comics will still agree your point even know Teen Titans fudge Damian over

The Flash writer rescued Wallace and gave a reason for why he stood by and let those things happen without trying harder or leaving the team 
If going argue character should be responsible you don't get pick choose which character so ether both Damian and Wallace are  responsible different problem  to you or neither are responsible for action they did as teen titans 2nd annual apps soften Damian action and show that Bruce was will give Damian a another chance which even with Damian walking I don't see Bruce change on that point but you rather go for stupid he kick out and treat like evil and worse human life writing What just so you can Damian was hold responsible .
Also if you will to give pass to Wallace  then as teen titans give  reason for why Damian  did these action because you
 As say it your choice that push responsible rubbish but don't try fit on other  especially not when you point ma not actually help  Damian writing  get better .

----------


## king81992

> It doesn't matter that the story was written to aid him leaving Robin. That is the real world reason. In universe Damian did those things. That is canon and in universe he is responsible.
> 
> I made comment on my issue but Yes, knowing what d.c. Is doing and that could be the worst possible thing not just for Damian but actually a kid who have complex issue or kid or adults able to get out of gangs or have behaviour issues because people never actually look into the see character in the mainstream They judge from that information so D. C. Outright say Those kids are unchangeable or monster is good how exactly and how given Damian props as a character when his entire character arc witch had an good message is muck up so Tim can be the robin. responsible you don't get throw that word around as weapon hoping it shut people up  that disagree both Damian age and the think he was not ready to be team leader because of his characteristic and issues is enough to point out issue of teen titans and rebirth writing of Damian. However the story use of his issues as way point him.as unchangeable monster is also enough to point the issue with teen titans and rebirth writing 
> 
> It does not matter to you 
> 
> Damian was already in gotham and patrolling before Battle for the cowl. He returned by himself after he was sent back so yes he decided to leave the LOA of his own freewill 
> 
> First as I say inconsistent writing as he not o leave the LOA of his own freewill but patrolling before Battle for the cowl. Less was show to act as did during begin time as robin as again you need learn to deal with idea that character is always the best and other characters help them if they writing with characteristic still part of the process then they learn or development because it is not bad
> ...


The Flash writer didn't do that to justify Wallace, he did that huge retcon to justify Barry's stupidity throughout the run + his  and the editorial's sketchy decisions. Wallace getting an out was coincidental. I see people cheering that revelation, but it's only good for memes and nothing else.

----------


## Shadow1322

> The Flash writer didn't do that to justify Wallace, he did that huge retcon to justify Barry's stupidity throughout the run + his  and the editorial's sketchy decisions. Wallace getting an out was coincidental. I see people cheering that revelation, but it's only good for memes and nothing else.


I understand you never I check to see what comment you were reply to. Thought be my overall point Wallace don't really change

----------


## dietrich

> I dont know what you are talking about**:
> 
> 1. You CLEARLY recognize that TIM is in Gotham Knights, Tim is the Robin with the Bo Staff and you see him using the Bo.
> Damian is smaller than Tim and he wears a cowl.
> 
> 2. The Robin who was used in all the Arkham Games was TIM DRAKE and NOT!!!! Damian Wayne.
> 
> Tim is recognised by ALL GAMERS and CASUALS because he was the Robin in ALL the Batman Games so far (except Injustice).


Honestly I thought it was Damian. He had Damian's hair, his LOA inspired Tunic and his face looked like more like Injustice Damian's than tim's.

The Bo is Tim's signature weapon but both Dick and Damian have been portrayed with a Bo.

All Gamers and Casuals recognise him you say. Are you sure? How do you know this? I just had a quick look at some of those reactions of the game reveal for myself [a couple of gaming channels and DC content channels] can't speak for casuals or the greater majority of gamers but not a one of the channels even knew Tim's name and yes they all thought it was Damian at 1st till they realised it was the other Robin. [the bo was the clue they associate the Bo with The other Robin]

It's an easy mistake when they make Robins resemble each other.

----------


## dietrich

> The Flash writer didn't do that to justify Wallace, he did that huge retcon to justify Barry's stupidity throughout the run + his  and the editorial's sketchy decisions. Wallace getting an out was coincidental. I see people cheering that revelation, but it's only good for memes and nothing else.


It might have been done as part of a greater retcon of meatier sketchy writing decisions but that doesn't mean it didn't justify or give Wallace an out.

It's good for Wallace since his involvement in the less than heroic team can now be chucked up to outside influences beyond his control.

----------


## Light of Justice

> It might have been done as part of a greater retcon of meatier sketchy writing decisions but that doesn't mean it didn't justify or give Wallace an out.
> 
> It's good for Wallace since his involvement in the less than heroic team can now be chucked up to outside influences beyond his control.


To be fair for me Wallace character didn't get trashed much on current TT. His fault is mainly intense passive reaction of Damian's antic but it's not like Wallace is also active on Percy's TT, with him getting manipulated by Deathstroke and complained to Beast Boy than to Damian himself. I think it's Emiko whom get damaged so much by this TT run (except Damian of course), and a huge retcon for her characterization on current TT will be very much appreciated, especially since her fanbase is not as solid as Damian. I prefer this run will not included on Emiko's history. Sadly yellow psycho turd who messing with time and reality because of pettiness alone reserved for Flash family only.

----------


## Blue22

It's funny you should say that, because this TT run is actually what made me warm up to Emiko. Before, I thought she was just another lazy way of making Green Arrow look like Batman by giving him his own Cassandra AND Damian, all in one character (...and I still kinda think that). But I really warmed up to her in Glass' Titans. In fact, she's pretty much the only character that I ended up liking better by the end of it.

...Okay that's not *completely* true. This run made me hate Wallace less, since he's nowhere near as annoying as he was in Percy's Titans. But I still don't like him. He went from being really annoying to really boring.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Buddy, Damian suggested commiting mass murder to "create a world without crime".
> This isn't his own way, that is a page straight out of Ra's book.
> You people just keep telling yourselfs that Damian is an "anti-hero" and not a villain for thinking and acting like this because you like the character.
> Teen Titans made it pretty clear Damian wasn't a hero in any kind of way for his actions, the book hits you over the head with that fact.
> 
> He needs to be reigned in and fast. If Damian's ideas on his own lead to him commiting crimes against humanity he shouldn't be left unsupervised.


Whoa, Damian never suggested "mass murder". Yes he wanted to kill criminals and instilled fear for them, but certainly not mass murder like Ra's who doesn't hesitate to obliterate a whole city and it's innocent people "for greater good". Even Injustice Damian, probably the worst incarnation of Damian, didn't want to cross that line. No matter how bad Damian's current TT, he still didn't want innocent people die. That's why Damian killed Brother Blood before he launched his mass murdering plan, even though probably if he killed Brother Blood after he launched his plan and the death of many people creates huge public outrage, he will be treated as hero by many civilians.

I agree with you though, that current Damian shouldn't be left unsupervised, even though to be honest I give up on Bruce as good supervisor for Damian, as much as I want Bruce to fix the mess himself with Damian. But hey who knows, DC retcons Batman's neglect to Dick by saying that actually he watched over Dick the whole time (which is huge bullshit, so you say that Bruce did nothing when Dick went homeless and manipulated?). And the next story of Bruce and Damian will be handled by Tomasi, and if there's someone who can write good dad Bruce to Damian, it's him (I say good dad Bruce to Damian, because Tomasi's dad Bruce certainly wasn't nice to Jason).

----------


## Light of Justice

> It's funny you should say that, because this TT run is actually what made me warm up to Emiko. Before, I thought she was just another lazy way of making Green Arrow look like Batman by giving him his own Cassandra AND Damian, all in one character (...and I still kinda think that). But I really warmed up to her in Glass' Titans. In fact, she's pretty much the only character that I ended up liking better by the end of it.
> 
> ...Okay that's not *completely* true. This run made me hate Wallace less, since he's nowhere near as annoying as he was in Percy's Titans. But I still don't like him. He went from being really annoying to really boring.


The double funny is for me earlier Glass Emiko is just a copy of Damian but less brutal, then on recent issues she acts like her main motivation is her feeling for Wallace. Like I can't see her as her own character on Glass's TT, just character whom get influenced by either Damian or Wallace. Her lack of spotlight on Glass's TT except when she follows Damian or her 'romance' plot with Wallace certainly helped for that. 
The character I kinda warmed up in the end is Crush, because for me Crush is pretty good character as long as Djinn isn't on her sight.

----------


## Shen

> The double funny is for me earlier Glass Emiko is just a copy of Damian but less brutal, then on recent issues she acts like her main motivation is her feeling for Wallace. Like I can't see her as her own character on Glass's TT, just character whom get influenced by either Damian or Wallace. Her lack of spotlight on Glass's TT except when she follows Damian or her 'romance' plot with Wallace certainly helped for that. 
> The character I kinda warmed up in the end is Crush, because for me Crush is pretty good character as long as Djinn isn't on her sight.


This pretty much sums up how I felt about Emi in this run. The 'romance' aspect is what I didn't like at all. Like she goes from being completely professional with Wallace in a few issues, then they go to hell and she suddenly realizes she has feelings for the dude? Not buying it. 

Then there was her motivation to join Damian - The Other. Big climatic battle with villain, unmasking of said villain and then... nothing? I mean I understand at the time they had bigger fish to fry, but they could've at least expanded on that part of the story a bit more.

----------


## Morgoth

DETECTIVE COMICS #1032

Written by PETER J. TOMASI

Art and cover by BRAD WALKER and ANDREW HENNESSY card stock

Variant cover by LEE BERMEJO

Father vs. son round two! Batman and Damian Wayne are once again butting heads after Bruce uncovers the missing Black Casebook pages in the clutches of his estranged son. But when the notorious Hush captures the entire Bat-Family, the Dark Knight and the former Boy Wonder must put aside their differences to help Nightwing, Batgirl, Signal, Orphan, Red Hood, and Batwoman survive!

32 pages, $3.99, (cardstock, $4.99), available on Dec. 8.

DETECTIVE COMICS #1033

Written by PETER J. TOMASI

Art and cover by BRAD WALKER and ANDREW HENNESSY card stock

Card stock variant cover by LEE BERMEJO

On the eve of some of the biggest changes ever in Gotham City, Batman finds himself at a crossroads with the people of the city he has sworn to protect. A landslide victory for anti-vigilante mayoral candidate Christopher Nakano is bringing with it new legislation to outlaw the Bat-Family's very way of life -- and with his rogues gallery still knocking on his door, Bruce will need to make some tough decisions about the future...

32 pages, $3.99, (Cardstock, $4.99), available on Dec. 22.

----------


## Frontier

Now that I think about it, I can't think of any other time Damian has been involved with Hush.

----------


## Morgoth

By the way, Damian still uses his Robin suit, just without symbol. And there's no single Tim mention in solicits.

----------


## Frontier

> By the way, Damian still uses his Robin suit, just without symbol. And there's no single Tim mention in solicits.


Yeah, I think he'll probably be Robin again soon enough.

----------


## Korath

> DETECTIVE COMICS #1032
> 
> Written by PETER J. TOMASI
> 
> Art and cover by BRAD WALKER and ANDREW HENNESSY card stock
> 
> Variant cover by LEE BERMEJO
> 
> Father vs. son round two! Batman and Damian Wayne are once again butting heads after Bruce uncovers the missing Black Casebook pages in the clutches of his estranged son. But when the notorious Hush captures the entire Bat-Family, the Dark Knight and the former Boy Wonder must put aside their differences to help Nightwing, Batgirl, Signal, Orphan, Red Hood, and Batwoman survive!
> ...


Exactly why I felt Tomasi was NOT the man needed to handle the fallout of Damian and Bruce. IF they'll reconcile like that, I'll just wash my handswith Damian, I guess, because that character will have lost any semblance of integrity and credibility to be - once more - reduced to a joke.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Exactly why I felt Tomasi was NOT the man needed to handle the fallout of Damian and Bruce. IF they'll reconcile like that, I'll just wash my handswith Damian, I guess, because that character will have lost any semblance of integrity and credibility to be - once more - reduced to a joke.


Its like what happened between Jason and Bruce; after Jason "shot" Penguin (with a blank, non-lethal), Bruce beat the living crap out of him and nearly took him to Arkham (if not for Bizarro, and later on Roy, intervening). After Roy died, Bruce hugged Jason and "everything was fixed". Which still feels way too off.

----------


## Konja7

> By the way, Damian still uses his Robin suit, just without symbol. And there's no single Tim mention in solicits.





> Yeah, I think he'll probably be Robin again soon enough.



Yeah. I think it is pretty possible Damian will recover Robin again. 

It seems Tim is still using the Drake alias even with a Robin suit.

----------


## Korath

> Its like what happened between Jason and Bruce; after Jason "shot" Penguin (with a blank, non-lethal), Bruce beat the living crap out of him and nearly took him to Arkham (if not for Bizarro, and later on Roy, intervening). After Roy died, Bruce hugged Jason and "everything was fixed". Which still feels way too off.


Yeah, but at least Jason has his own book where he gets to be the star and MC. Not the butt-end of a joke like in Supersons for Damian or a book where he is crushed by a legacy far too heavy for any character to bear nowadays (Teen Titans).

And Jason proved to still be somewhat estranged from Batman in Event:Leviathan and even in Three Jokers (even if I don't really like this book so far).

Damian will just get back in line and be the good little unwanted child adoring his father or something, instead of growing and developing into his own character. It just sickens me.

----------


## Morgoth

They probably will reconcile, I'm sure of that. They probably want to please audience with undoing basically everything which was criticized, lol.

----------


## Korath

> They probably will reconcile, I'm sure of that. They probably want to please audience with undoing basically everything which was criticized, lol.


They want to please Supersons fans, that's it.

And in doing so, they are making Damian Wayne an absolute garbage of a character. It's just infuriating.

But I guess people likes their "Ianized" version more than actual interesting character development.

----------


## Morgoth

> They want to please Supersons fans, that's it.
> 
> And in doing so, they are making Damian Wayne an absolute garbage of a character. It's just infuriating.
> 
> But I guess people likes their "Ianized" version more than actual interesting character development.


If we leave aside preferences in character development, we run into the question of sales. Super Sons were selling well, OGNs are successful, merch, omnibuses. On the other side of the question Legion is selling badly, Glass's have dropped in sales and have been criticized.
I am not claiming that SS will be returned for sure, but if it happens, well, let's be honest, they have reasons. They want comics for sale, and SS has got a bunch of fans, those Damian and Jon version are more profitable. That's it.

----------


## Korath

> If we leave aside preferences in character development, we run into the question of sales. Super Sons were selling well, OGNs are successful, merch, omnibuses. On the other side of the question Legion is selling badly, Glass's have dropped in sales and have been criticized.
> I am not claiming that SS will be returned for sure, but if it happens, well, let's be honest, they have reasons. They want comics for sale, and SS has got a bunch of fans, those Damian and Jon version are more profitable. That's it.


That's true, but those versions are also garbage to me. If they return to it, I'll just stop reading anything with them inside. Since my pull list is already incredibly small, it'll leave my with The Last God from any Comic publisher, basically, since I've so far seen nothing interesting on the horizon.

----------


## Frontier

I don't see the need to drag out any more contrived drama with the Batfamily. If anyone could write a believable reconciliation between Bruce and Damian, it would probably be Tomasi.

----------


## Korath

The thing is, for once, the drama wasn't contrived. 

But I think I'll just drop comics altogether. This relaunch coming is making clear it's not the kind of story-telling medium worth investing in for someone like me. Not with Manag and B.D. out there.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

It looks like Damian is in #1033’s cover, but it looks like he’s not wearing Robin costume. Could it be a new one? New alias?

----------


## Konja7

> It looks like Damian is in #1033’s cover, but it looks like he’s not wearing Robin costume. Could it be a new one? New alias?


I think it is his Robin costume, it isn't just pretty clear due to the angle. 

If Damian get a new costume and alias, it will likely be on January.


Daniele Di Nicuolo drop an image of Damian with a Batsuit (Tom Taylor is involved too). Some think it is about DCeased, but it isn't confirmed. It could be his new suit in continuity (if he stops to be Robin).

----------


## Light of Justice

> Now that I think about it, I can't think of any other time Damian has been involved with Hush.



From Batman : Street of Gotham. I hope Street of Gotham become canon somehow, maybe they will bring Colin back.

----------


## Morgoth

To be honest, after these announcements, I am no longer sure that this is exactly DCeased. Even with hashtags on Instagram.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Exactly why I felt Tomasi was NOT the man needed to handle the fallout of Damian and Bruce. IF they'll reconcile like that, I'll just wash my handswith Damian, I guess, because that character will have lost any semblance of integrity and credibility to be - once more - reduced to a joke.


To be fair, DC (or at least Tynion) mandate huge restoration of Bat-Family. With saying that Bruce become an ass to Dick and Damian because of his grief after losing Alfred on Batman (even though he neglect both on them long before Alfred's death), unknown talk between Tim and Batman on Young Justice, and the declaration that he's actually watching Dick all along (again, it's huge bullshit) current issues somehow are mainly proposed to restore Bruce's reputation on Batfam. And what will improve his reputation more than he 'forgives' his killer son to save his family?
So yeah, it sucks, but it's kinda expected from DC right now.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> I think it is his Robin costume, it isn't just pretty clear due to the angle. 
> 
> If Damian get a new costume and alias, it will likely be on January.
> 
> 
> Daniele Di Nicuolo drop an image of Damian with a Batsuit (Tom Taylor is involved too). Some think it is about DCeased, but it isn't confirmed. It could be his new suit in continuity (if he stops to be Robin).


Makes sense, but what does it mean?  :Confused:  I'm so worried omfg hahaha

And I think it is something DCeased related, but perhaps a new series or something? Because it does seem something new, although not completely.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Makes sense, but what does it mean?  I'm so worried omfg hahaha



His white outside black inside pants remind me of his fist costume when he met Batman for the first time. If that suit is standard LoA costume, then yeah, you should be worried

----------


## Digifiend

> It's funny you should say that, because this TT run is actually what made me warm up to Emiko. Before, I thought she was just another lazy way of making Green Arrow look like Batman by giving him his own Cassandra AND Damian, all in one character (...and I still kinda think that). But I really warmed up to her in Glass' Titans. In fact, she's pretty much the only character that I ended up liking better by the end of it.


Emiko isn't based on Cass or Damian. She's based on Thea Queen from the Arrow TV series, which is funny, because Thea was in turn based on Mia Dearden and Arrow later introduced Emiko as well!




> DETECTIVE COMICS #1033
> 
> Written by PETER J. TOMASI
> 
> Art and cover by BRAD WALKER and ANDREW HENNESSY card stock
> 
> Card stock variant cover by LEE BERMEJO
> 
> On the eve of some of the biggest changes ever in Gotham City, Batman finds himself at a crossroads with the people of the city he has sworn to protect. A landslide victory for anti-vigilante mayoral candidate Christopher Nakano is bringing with it new legislation to outlaw the Bat-Family's very way of life -- and with his rogues gallery still knocking on his door, Bruce will need to make some tough decisions about the future...
> ...


Copycats, that sounds just like what's happening in Champions.

----------


## Blue22

> Emiko isn't based on Cass or Damian. She's based on Thea Queen from the Arrow TV series, which is funny, because Thea was in turn based on Mia Dearden and Arrow later introduced Emiko as well!


I haven't caught most of the Arrowverse but from what little I have seen in heard, it is very much "Ollie is Batman-lite". Even if it wasn't the intent, I still get *major* Cass and Damian vibes off of Emiko.




> DETECTIVE COMICS #1032
> 
> Written by PETER J. TOMASI
> 
> Art and cover by BRAD WALKER and ANDREW HENNESSY card stock
> 
> Variant cover by LEE BERMEJO
> 
> Father vs. son round two! Batman and Damian Wayne are once again butting heads after Bruce uncovers the missing Black Casebook pages in the clutches of his estranged son. But when the notorious Hush captures the entire Bat-Family, the Dark Knight and the former Boy Wonder must put aside their differences to help Nightwing, Batgirl, Signal, Orphan, Red Hood, and Batwoman survive!
> ...


You know what? If this is going where I think it's going, I'm okay with it. Does Bruce deserve Damian back? Hell no. He doesn't deserve any of the Batfam's loyalty. But I'll take them finding a way to reconcile over what's been happening to Damian for the past two or so years. Especially if it's done by Tomasi, who is the absolute best when it comes to writing those two not just as Batman and Robin, but as father and son.

Do I think Damian should leave Robin behind? Eh. Based on how long he's held the title, I'd be okay if he moved on. But not like this. Not in the way TT was building him up to do it. Do I want to see Damian and Bruce make up? Not particularly. Not unless Bruce acknowledges how fucked up it was that he let his son go this long thinking Alfred's death was his fault. But, again, I'll take it because I think it beats the downward spiral he was going on after Djinn left the team (technically, it started way before but that's when it got worse). If they do make peace with each other, I'm glad Tomasi will be the one bringing them back together.

If I got to decide, I'd probably keep them estranged at the most. They don't really...speak to each other but Damian's still _mostly_ a hero and he's there whenever the whole Batfam is needed.

----------


## Digifiend

> I haven't caught most of the Arrowverse but from what little I have seen in heard, it is very much "Ollie is Batman-lite".


Honestly, he himself isn't, they just used the League of Assassins and a couple of Titans villains (Deathstroke and HIVE), and gave Felicity a couple of storylines adapted from Batgirl comics (the spinal implant first used in New 52 and the daughter of Calculator story that Wendy Harris had in Steph's run). He has a Team, not just a sidekick. What the comics adapted from Thea for Emiko was primarily the costume design and the half-sister relationship.

----------


## Frontier

> The thing is, for once, the drama wasn't contrived.


Any drama spinning from King's run feels contrived at this point.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> Yeah, but at least Jason has his own book where he gets to be the star and MC. Not the butt-end of a joke like in Supersons for Damian or a book where he is crushed by a legacy far too heavy for any character to bear nowadays (Teen Titans).
> 
> And Jason proved to still be somewhat estranged from Batman in Event:Leviathan and even in Three Jokers (even if I don't really like this book so far).
> 
> Damian will just get back in line and be the good little unwanted child adoring his father or something, instead of growing and developing into his own character. It just sickens me.




It would be cool if he got a solo mini after leaving TT. I think neither Tim or Damian should go back to being Robin.

----------


## adrikito

SO. No Damian in December solicitations?

Anyway.. I think that I saw him Behind Tim in one comic cover with a lot of characters... Maybe something related with Metal.

----------


## Konja7

> SO. No Damian in December solicitations?
> 
> Anyway.. I think that I saw him Behind Tim in one comic cover with a lot of characters... Maybe something related with Metal.


Damian will be Detective Comics in December.

----------


## Light of Justice

I think some point that we can take from there is :
1. Damian got one hell of a teenage crisis
2. Look's like there's no special long-term plan for Damian in the future. Maybe those bad future foreshadowing like on Supersons of Tomorrow and Legion of Superheroes will be scrapped like what happened on 5G. But on the other hand, Legion of Superheroes is still on-going, so maybe "baby Hitler plot" still can happen.
3. So, how can I be Damian's writer exactly?

----------


## Morgoth

> Maybe those bad future foreshadowing like on Supersons of Tomorrow and Legion of Superheroes will be scrapped like what happened on 5G. But on the other hand, Legion of Superheroes is still on-going, so maybe "baby Hitler plot" still can happen


The Legion will likely end in January. And in solicits there is nothing about it, the villain of their final story will be Rogol-Zaar. I doubt they're going that route now, given their current direction in comics to retcon everything that majority doesn't like.
Lee said nothing at all. Unless it really becomes clear that there is no large-scale direction, and this means that the status quo will be restored simply because they do not know what else to do. In principle, no information should have been expected. We must see what will happen in 'Tec and wait for January solicits with relaunch information.

----------


## Shadow1322

> I think some point that we can take from there is :
> 1. Damian got one hell of a teenage crisis
> 2. Look's like there's no special long-term plan for Damian in the future. Maybe those bad future foreshadowing like on Supersons of Tomorrow and Legion of Superheroes will be scrapped like what happened on 5G. But on the other hand, Legion of Superheroes is still on-going, so maybe "baby Hitler plot" still can happen.
> 3. So, how can I be Damian's writer exactly?


Maybe those bad future foreshadowing like on Supersons of Tomorrow and Legion of Superheroes
That one future not the set path that Damian or jon would follow  

Legion of Superheroes is still on-going, so maybe "baby Hitler plot" still can happen.

Yet he chose to work with his father to save his family. Unsure why you 


1. Damian got one hell of a teenage crisis

That my issue It could be better handle but it look to have work out I hope

----------


## Speed Force League Unlimited

I looked at the title and thought this says; "Damon Wayans/Robin", the question that hit me was "When did this happen?"

He might be one of the most developed new comic book characters created this century, and the Robin with the fastest character development.

----------


## Restingvoice

> I think some point that we can take from there is :
> 1. Damian got one hell of a teenage crisis
> 2. Look's like there's no special long-term plan for Damian in the future. Maybe those bad future foreshadowing like on Supersons of Tomorrow and Legion of Superheroes will be scrapped like what happened on 5G. But on the other hand, Legion of Superheroes is still on-going, so maybe "baby Hitler plot" still can happen.
> 3. So, how can I be Damian's writer exactly?


You attend one of DC's writing classes if they still have them and show some great portfolio
You write the best selling novel or at least has a premise interesting enough it attracts DC saying "hey, we can use your concept for this character, wanna join?" 
This is how Didio recruited Snyder, King, and Percy, so I don't know now that he's gone

----------


## Light of Justice

> Maybe those bad future foreshadowing like on Supersons of Tomorrow and Legion of Superheroes
> That one future not the set path that Damian or jon would follow  
> 
> Legion of Superheroes is still on-going, so maybe "baby Hitler plot" still can happen.
> 
> Yet he chose to work with his father to save his family. Unsure why you


Because Bendis has history of messing with Tomasi's works.

----------


## Shadow1322

> Because Bendis has history of messing with Tomasi's works.


Actually don't answer much because if  Damian wil be show to put side his difference to work with Bruce to help save the others then yes he may struggle hero as Bruce and other will like to be  but  that action would show that not a he a villain  and while I disagree with writers like  Bendis  take on characters like Damian his tell not show idea was poor and he  should use a better example.

----------


## Masterff

> Honestly I thought it was Damian. He had Damian's hair, his LOA inspired Tunic and his face looked like more like Injustice Damian's than tim's.
> 
> The Bo is Tim's signature weapon but both Dick and Damian have been portrayed with a Bo.
> 
> All Gamers and Casuals recognise him you say. Are you sure? How do you know this? I just had a quick look at some of those reactions of the game reveal for myself [a couple of gaming channels and DC content channels] can't speak for casuals or the greater majority of gamers but not a one of the channels even knew Tim's name and yes they all thought it was Damian at 1st till they realised it was the other Robin. [the bo was the clue they associate the Bo with The other Robin]
> 
> It's an easy mistake when they make Robins resemble each other.


Did you ever watch Young Justice-ANIMATED SERIES?
The Gotham Knights Robin looks like TIM DRAKE in the Young Justice Animated Series.
He has the same hair-cut and the same face.

And NO he looks extremely different to Injustice Damian Wayne.

->Injustice Damian Wayne has a ROUND face, like a circle.
->Gotham Knights Robin and Young Justice Tim Drake have both a small,thin face with sharp chin.

The only REAL similarity to Damian is the Suit which looks like Damians Suit and because he looks smaller than usual.

I had problems because of the Robin Costume which looks like Damians Costume and because they introduced an older Tim Drake in the Arkham Games.

----------


## Digifiend

GK is a reboot, it's not in continuity with Arkham.

----------


## Blue22

> Did you ever watch Young Justice-ANIMATED SERIES?
> The Gotham Knights Robin looks like TIM DRAKE in the Young Justice Animated Series.
> He has the same hair-cut and the same face.




(MAN! It took me forever to find a good pic of him without his hood)

https://static1.cbrimages.com/wordpr...hts-Header.jpg
(Because I can't post more than three images)

With all this in mind, I can see the similarities to YJ Tim. Mostly in the shape of his head. But he also looks *a lot* like Injustice 2 Damian to me. Like he's some weird amalgam of both designs. I'd say it's still pretty reasonable to mistake him for Damian. In fact I still think he looks more like Damian than he does Tim.

----------


## Frontier

I thought it was Damian until I saw the bo staff. I feel like that made it clear which Robin it was.

----------


## Restingvoice

Okay, pause

Forget Marinette, I just saw Damian x Elsa fan art 
Yes, Frozen Elsa, who else, and Damian is Batman
I think people are just doing whatever they like 

Unpause

----------


## Blue22

> Okay, pause
> 
> Forget Marinette, I just saw Damian x Elsa fan art 
> Yes, Frozen Elsa, who else, and Damian is Batman
> I think people are just doing whatever they like 
> 
> Unpause


And I thought I was weird for shipping Elsa with Sora from Kingdom Hearts XD

----------


## the illustrious mr. kenway

https://www.gamesradar.com/is-the-ne...e-in-disguise/

I just thought it was an interesting theory.

Any thoughts?

----------


## J. D. Guy

> https://www.gamesradar.com/is-the-ne...e-in-disguise/
> 
> I just thought it was an interesting theory.
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> PS. I'm writing a FF10-2/Jak and Daxter crossover where Jak has a one-sided crush on yuna so Yeah just ship what you like.


Not sure how I'd feel about that being true. To me, it'd just come off as a cop-out on an interesting take that is Clownhunter. It would be another case of "Here's this surprisingly cool new character, but no wait it's actually The Joker you guys!1! lloooooolllll". And coming right after/right next to the whole August Heart/Godspeed and Thawne thing, I'm not here for that for another cool, intriguing new character.

----------


## Blue22

Yeah I'm gonna have to go ahead and say I don't want this. We got a potentially good new character on our hands. No use ruining that potential on a twist like that.

----------


## Frontier

It wouldn't make any sense for Damian to be sporting his own costume post-Joker War and be Clownhunter too. 

He would never be caught dead looking like Clownhunter.

----------


## scary harpy

> .... 
> 
> He would never be caught dead looking like Clownhunter.


Agreed! 10 characters

----------


## Shadow1322

> https://www.gamesradar.com/is-the-ne...e-in-disguise/
> 
> I just thought it was an interesting theory.
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> PS. I'm writing a FF10-2/Jak and Daxter crossover where Jak has a one-sided crush on yuna so Yeah just ship what you like.


First problem 
They brought up Tim that show the bias in the   "interesting theory"

Second one up coming issue going to going in to clown hunter past if he was Damian that not be needed


Damian Wayne would take up the identity of Clownhunter, in a sort of Nightwing-esque move to differentiate himself from his mentor
Also becoming the Clownhunter is not sort of Nightwing-esque move

----------


## Bikkun

> First problem 
> They brought up Tim that show the bias in the   "interesting theory"
> 
> Second one up coming issue going to going in to clown hunter past if he was Damian that not be needed
> 
> 
> Damian Wayne would take up the identity of Clownhunter, in a sort of Nightwing-esque move to differentiate himself from his mentor
> Also becoming the Clownhunter is not sort of Nightwing-esque move


Tynion also commented on the article on Twitter and straight said it's false. 

https://twitter.com/JamesTheFourth/s...41015328542722

----------


## Light of Justice

> https://www.gamesradar.com/is-the-ne...e-in-disguise/
> 
> I just thought it was an interesting theory.
> 
> Any thoughts?


Damian had relatively low interaction with Joker, at least compared to Jason, Dick, Babs, and Duke. Sure they have some bad blood there and there. but his main hated people right know are big guys like Bane and KGBeast. There's no reason for Damian to hunt 'clowns' (assumed that he didn't know about Dick's brainwashing in the hand of Joker, with him not included in Joker War and all).

----------


## Restingvoice

> And I thought I was weird for shipping Elsa with Sora from Kingdom Hearts XD


At least they met ^^




> https://www.gamesradar.com/is-the-ne...e-in-disguise/
> 
> I just thought it was an interesting theory.
> 
> Any thoughts?


Nah, Tynion would want it to be an original character. It's a pretty good concept.




> Tynion also commented on the article on Twitter and straight said it's false. 
> 
> https://twitter.com/JamesTheFourth/s...41015328542722


Oh there it is

----------


## Darkcrusade25

Well here’s my takeaway about Damian from the batbooks released today *spoilers:*
 he might still have ownership of the Robin ID since it’s still vacant 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Rac7d*

> Damian had relatively low interaction with Joker, at least compared to Jason, Dick, Babs, and Duke. Sure they have some bad blood there and there. but his main hated people right know are big guys like Bane and KGBeast. There's no reason for Damian to hunt 'clowns' (assumed that he didn't know about Dick's brainwashing in the hand of Joker, with him not included in Joker War and all).


Bane and kgbeast are small potatoes 

For the last 6 year Damian and deasthstroke have been at it though

----------


## Digifiend

> Well here’s my takeaway about Damian from the batbooks released today *spoilers:*
>  he might still have ownership of the Robin ID since it’s still vacant 
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
Or that Red Robin caption for Tim was a mistake.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Shadow1322

> *spoilers:*
> Or that Red Robin caption for Tim was a mistake.
> *end of spoilers*


Yes we get you part of group that what Damian to go evil  now if actually get anything important to add

----------


## Restingvoice

> Bane and kgbeast are small potatoes 
> 
> For the last 6 year Damian and deasthstroke have been at it though


Poor Bane, breaking Batman back and psyche only to be called small potato

----------


## Light of Justice

> *spoilers:*
> Or that Red Robin caption for Tim was a mistake.
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
 Drake on Robin costume, Red Robin on Robin costume..... Duckboy on Robin costume... If it's another mistake, then really what the heck all DC Batman editors doing? 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Morgoth

I doubt it's a mistake. People are discussing Robin's question too much now to be so easy to make a mistake in an issue that is important enough for continuty. And we don't have Tim in Batman solicits, so, I'm assume he's really just keeping Red Robin mantle.

----------


## Konja7

> *spoilers:*
> Or that Red Robin caption for Tim was a mistake.
> *end of spoilers*


The other option is Drake, since Harley Quinn calls him as Duckboy. 

The most likely is the caption with his new name was written in the final moments. I really doubt the editors will mistake in this part, since they should know his new identity for the moment they add this.

----------


## Blue22

So...Bendis wrote a Batfamily story in today's Tec. That included Damian. And you know what? It...actually wasn't terrible until the end (You'd think the guy who created Jessica Jones would be better at writing mysteries). There were a few hiccups here and there like everyone calling each other by their real names while out in the field, and Damian was still a little...too casual at times. But overall, it wasn't half bad.

As for Titans...well....Looks like I was right. Without Damian and Djinn, this book just isn't worth reading anymore. I like Crush but not that much. And everyone else is just...meh. Or terrible, in Roundhouse's case. The only interesting part of this issue was the very end. But I don't think I'll be checking out the next issue to see what happens next.

----------


## Digifiend

Isn't Superboy what happens next?

----------


## Blue22

I was trying to avoid cuz spoilers (though I guess the solicits already spoiled that) but yes. He is, indeed lol

----------


## Morgoth

They continue to try to soft the situation with Damian. I suppose Roundhouse's words that he "left clues so they could achieve their redemption" is another hint of this.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

DC needs to let Damian do his own thing without taking up another mantle.

----------


## CPSparkles

I never thought the powers were about to change Robin [officially] It's looking more and more like they are not even going to let them change it unofficially. This is just the Synder/Duke thing all over again.

Since Synder was able to have Jarro as a Robin I thought Tynion would be allowed to do the same with Tim but it seems that's not working out.

----------


## Journey

I feel like Damian has regressed so much as a character this year kind of sad.

----------


## CPSparkles

> I feel like Damian has regressed so much as a character this year kind of sad.




I hear ya.What's especially sad is that they felt the need to deliberately sabotage his character just as a way to give Robin to someone else.

Damian is fine in other titles aside from TT and it went on longer than a year. Robin has changed hands before. There is no need to undermine the current holder just to pass it on. 

When Damian became Robin Tim got a solo and a big pert assigned him in Bruce's return.

Now they are trying to walk everything Glass did back but that doesn't undo it.

Saying that I don't think any of the main bats moved forward this year or since Rebirth
aside from maybe Duke. Bruce and Tim got set back the most. Bruce and Dick got screwed the most

----------


## Shadow1322

> I hear ya.What's especially sad is that they felt the need to deliberately sabotage his character just as a way to give Robin to someone else.
> 
> Damian is fine in other titles aside from TT and it went on longer than a year. Robin has changed hands before. There is no need to undermine the current holder just to pass it on. 
> 
> When Damian became Robin Tim got a solo and a big pert assigned him in Bruce's return.
> 
> Now they are trying to walk everything Glass did back but that doesn't undo it.
> 
> Saying that I don't think any of the main bats moved forward this year or since Rebirth
> aside from maybe Duke. Bruce and Tim got set back the most. Bruce and Dick got screwed the most


Damian is fine in other titles aside from TT and it went on longer than a year. Robin has changed hands before. There is no need to undermine the current holder just to pass it on. 
There no need pass it and we still don't know if it being pass on as look more unlikely and being fine other title that were before the second team in teen titans hardly matter 


just as a way to give Robin to someone else.
Tim. It Damian character development was originally muck up so Tim could be robin again. Thankful they seem to be fix that and "Now they are trying to walk everything Glass did back but that doesn't undo it. " however I rather they walking it back and try fix what they can in short amount time and go for there then follow for with it and ruin Damian as character.



Robin has changed hands before

One again the character they were going to give to was Tim so arguing but change hand before without a actual example of the robin and if Glass teen titans storyline had not happen he would still be robin plus Damian is 13 and Tim in New 52 was 16 correct when become red robin . Which is roughly the point dick made nightwing

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> I feel like Damian has regressed so much as a character this year kind of sad.


Maybe him *spoilers:*
not being robin anymore
*end of spoilers* might be a blessing in disguise. Forcing writers to try something new with him rather than constantly having the status quo(daddy issues & moral dilemma plotlines).

----------


## Shadow1322

> Maybe him *spoilers:*
> not being robin anymore
> *end of spoilers* might be a blessing in disguise. Forcing writers to try something new with him rather than constantly having the status quo(daddy issues & moral dilemma plotlines).


Maybe wait to actually know that d.c made another stupid choice and kick him out of the bat family or wait to see this problem get fix because no muck up Damian development is not a "a  blessing in disguise" 



Also daddy issues & moral dilemma plotlines so Lyra Belacqua interesting

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> Maybe wait to actually know that d.c made another stupid choice and kick him out of the bat family or wait to see this problem get fix because no muck up Damian development is not a "a  blessing in disguise" 
> 
> 
> try something new with him rather than constantly having the status quo(daddy issues & moral dilemma plotlines).
> 
> You mean thing that would happen if D.C.had not choose this ... You know I hoping more and more that Damian is still the robin after just because of bad take on his development I seen



How is not having him as Robin anymore bad? It's an opportunity to give Damian a herioc identity outside the Batman connection.

He's not "kicked out" of the batfamily, the tone recent TT issue isn't antagonizing him. Seems like a they're writing a teen character looking for some space after a traumatic event, it's not a "bad take" tbh.

----------


## Konja7

> How is not having him as Robin anymore bad? It's an opportunity to give Damian a herioc identity outside the Batman connection.
> 
> He's not "kicked out" of the batfamily, the tone recent TT issue isn't antagonizing him. Seems like a they're writing a teen character looking for some space after a traumatic event, it's not a "bad take" tbh.


It seems DC doesn't want Damian to be Robin when 5G would happen (and Luke becomes Batman). 

If that's the case, I really doubt they have real plans for Damian after that. They just don't want him in the middle.

----------


## Shadow1322

> How is not having him as Robin anymore bad? It's an opportunity to give Damian a herioc identity outside the Batman connection.
> 
> He's not "kicked out" of the batfamily, the tone recent TT issue isn't antagonizing him. Seems like a they're writing a teen character looking for some space after a traumatic event, it's not a "bad take" tbh.


Should we bring nico di angelo and sasuke so that Damian as trio for his anti hero group.


It's an opportunity to give Damian a herioc identity outside the Batman connection.



Also removing himself as robin and being removed for being robin are the same when character as young as Damian so point that he try get out from Batman connection while point out teen character looking for some space after a traumatic event which there's different between give they space as time in room or left by themselves to deal with these issues less they what help and let them make as many mistake and problems that Damian has for himself and his team that had hand these issues 

He's not "kicked out" of the batfamily, the tone recent TT issue isn't antagonizing him

The part with him and Bruce don't which if Bruce never try to help Damian I question why show him reach out to Damian that one time but in recent in kind tt issue sit in  middle in my opinion

----------


## adrikito

> It seems DC doesn't want Damian to be Robin when 5G would happen (and Duke becomes Batman). 
> 
> If that's the case, I really doubt they have real plans for Damian after that. They just don't want him in the middle.


NO 5G Anymore:

https://www.ign.com/articles/dc-comi...elaunch-reboot

ABOUT ROBIN. I would like to say.. Who will be the next Robin.. A new character? But I see Tim with the role again.

----------


## Konja7

> I heard that this generation was Didio idea and is not available anymore.


I know. That's why it is pretty possible Damian will be Robin again. 

My point is the idea that Damian will be fine if he stops to be Robin seems wrong, since DC doesn't really care enough about Damian in that situation.

----------


## adrikito

I updated the previous comment with this: 

https://www.ign.com/articles/dc-comi...elaunch-reboot

No 5G.



> As for Titans...well....Looks like I was right. Without Damian and Djinn, this book just isn't worth reading anymore.


Even without DjinnxDamian it was a Terrible Decision remove her from the team.

----------


## adrikito

> So...Bedis wrote a Batfamily story in today's Tec. That included Damian. And you know what? It...actually wasn't terrible until the end (You'd think the guy who created Jessica Jones would be better at writing mysteries). There were a few hiccups here and there like everyone calling each othr by their real names while out on the field, and Damian was still a little...too casual at times. But overall, it wasn't half bad.


Really?? Still seems better than BATMAN 99.. I heard in batman news that it was a TERRIBLE ISSUE.

----------


## Shadow1322

> ABOUT ROBIN. I would like to say.. Who will be the next Robin.. A new character? But I see Tim with the role again.


ABOUT ROBIN. I would like to say.. Who will be the next Robin.. A new character? 

No not if d.c. Writers have any brain left and Tim was called the red robin So after issue with teen titans muck up writing is done with Damian will probably be back to being robin and say probably just.to lake less annoying to you as more likely then unlike that Damian will continue being the robin




> Really?? Still seems better than BATMAN 99.. I heard in batman news that it was a TERRIBLE ISSUE..


Meh it hopeful end this stupid idea about Tim being robin So can't be all that bad




> It was a Terrible Decision remove her from the team.


. they about both Damian and Djinn, be not in book and you comment on one :Confused:   why did you choose to comment in post that call Damian Wayne: Robin Appreciation if your try you hardest to avoid comment about Damian

----------


## adrikito

NO. As long as Damian receives a *new good alias* I don´t care if we see a new robin. I only said that watching what I heard about Tim seems that a new character as Robin is not possible.

Tim? I only said that *Batman 99* received one bad review here(4,5 of 10):

https://batman-news.com/2020/09/15/batman-99-review/

I mentioned her because initially make one DamianxDjinn looked possible and because she was better than the other 2 that were created for Glass.

----------


## Konja7

> NO. As long as Damian receives a *new good alias* I don´t care if we see a new robin. I only said that watching what I heard about Tim seems that a new character as Robin is not possible.
> 
> Tim? I only said that *Batman 99* received one bad review here(4,5 of 10):
> 
> https://batman-news.com/2020/09/15/batman-99-review/
> 
> I mentioned her because initially make one DamianxDjinn looked possible and because she was better than the other 2 that were created for Glass.


The theory that Tim will be Robin was because he was using a Robin suit. However, although he is using the Robin suit, he isn't called Robin. 

It's pretty likely Nightwing #73 and #74 and he Duckboy in Batman #99 where written when he was Drake (in the Robin suit). So, the most likely is that there was a time he will be Drake even in a Robin suit. 

However, the captions in Batman #99 should been added pretty later. So, it is more likely Red Robin is his new identity, since this should be the final decision. 


PS: Some people mentions YJ #18 as confirmation that Tim is Robin again. However, it was never confirmed that Tim was Robin in that issue (his companions only assumed that was the case).

----------


## CPSparkles

Lucascamargo

----------


## CPSparkles

Damian and no 5



https://twitter.com/Unmoving5




https://twitter.com/OtterTheAuthor

----------


## CPSparkles

The Knight is young by Dustin Nguyen with Dick and Damian



Commission by https://twitter.com/Titshaaa



https://twitter.com/07newb_pochip



https://twitter.com/langbuliang

----------


## CPSparkles

> It seems DC doesn't want Damian to be Robin when 5G would happen (and Duke becomes Batman). 
> 
> If that's the case, I really doubt they have real plans for Damian after that. They just don't want him in the middle.


Luke was supposed to be Batman in 5G not Duke. Not that it matters anymore. 
Damian has an identity that distances him from batman. redbird

----------


## Morgoth

> It seems DC doesn't want Damian to be Robin when 5G would happen (and Duke becomes Batman). 
> 
> If that's the case, I really doubt they have real plans for Damian after that. They just don't want him in the middle.


I have a suggestion that perhaps Damian in 5G would have something to do with Leviathan, because in Checkmate he was supposed to have an important role alongside Talia, if I remember correctly. And all this would probably come out of Glass's TT. Now 5G has been canceled, and Checkmate has been moved and rewritten, if not quietly canceled at all. Therefore, if there was a long-term plan, then it was canceled. Actually, another reason why 'Tec will probably return him to the Robin status quo.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Luke was supposed to be Batman in 5G not Duke. Not that it matters anymore. 
> Damian has an identity that distances him from batman. redbird


Honestly Redbird is a lame name, especially after there's Red Hood and Red Robin in the family. And isn't Redbird created so he can fight alongside Batman because Robin is grounded?

----------


## Light of Justice

> I have a suggestion that perhaps Damian in 5G would have something to do with Leviathan, because in Checkmate he was supposed to have an important role alongside Talia, if I remember correctly. And all this would probably come out of Glass's TT. Now 5G has been canceled, and Checkmate has been moved and rewritten, if not quietly canceled at all. Therefore, if there was a long-term plan, then it was canceled. Actually, another reason why 'Tec will probably return him to the Robin status quo.


I hope Checkmate isn't cancelled. From current Tec 1027, surprisingly looks like Bendis is kiiiiiinda able to write Damian at least better than his writing before (baby Hitler, accusing Jason without any basic and all that). And ngl, Even though Event Leviathan is terrible, I kinda like Leviathan Dawn and hope that will have continuation.
By the way, now after Bendis got outed from Superman book and Action Comic book, what if he will be placed on Bat office next?

----------


## Light of Justice

Current Mood

https://twitter.com/henna_wia

Batman has thick head

https://twitter.com/Springf22277688

DC is really such an edgelord b*tch because the only thing they acknowledged from the whole Gleason's run on RSOB is Damian went to hell after he died. 

https://twitter.com/henna_wia

----------


## CPSparkles

> Current Mood
> 
> https://twitter.com/henna_wia
> 
> Batman has thick head
> 
> https://twitter.com/Springf22277688
> 
> DC is really such an edgelord b*tch because the only thing they acknowledged from the whole Gleason's run on RSOB is Damian went to hell after he died. 
> ...


Glass isn't DC
Great Art

----------


## Light of Justice

As much as I dislike him renouncing Robin title, for some reason this scene is soooo satisfying for me

https://twitter.com/daminyonok


https://twitter.com/kettoketto_

Anyone know from what issue this cover came from? I don't remember ever see it before. Or is it just fanart?

----------


## Light of Justice

> Glass isn't DC
> Great Art


Glass said that him renouncing Robin title is mandate from DC, and still, Maya or even Goliath are nowhere be seen on any current DC canon issues.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> Honestly Redbird is a lame name, especially after there's Red Hood and Red Robin in the family. And isn't Redbird created so he can fight alongside Batman because Robin is grounded?


The costume looks too much like Tim's Red Robin one too

----------


## Restingvoice

It's also the name of Tim's bike
Fanfickers have used it as tsundere Damian material, that Damian secretly likes Tim

----------


## Jackalope89

> Glass said that him renouncing Robin title is mandate from DC, and still, Maya or even Goliath are nowhere be seen on any current DC canon issues.


Goliath is in Batman Beyond, at least. And Maya did, if briefly, pop up in The Terrifics.




> It's also the name of Tim's bike
> Fanfickers have used it as tsundere Damian material, that Damian secretly likes Tim


Ugh. I actively avoid any story that ships any of the brothers together.

----------


## Digifiend

> It's also the name of Tim's bike


Car, not bike.

----------


## dietrich

Redbird is straight up gansta compared to Robin. The lamest hero name ever. That name alone turned me off the character until I came across the movie Son of Batman and then suddenly Robin wasn't such a joke.

----------


## scary harpy

> Current Mood
> 
> https://twitter.com/henna_wia


Thanks for posting this picture.

DC seldom knows what to do with surprises.

----------


## dietrich

> Glass said that him renouncing Robin title is mandate from DC, and still, Maya or even Goliath are nowhere be seen on any current DC canon issues.


No Glass said that the mandate was for him to lose the mantle not renounce it. There's a big difference. The wording of that instagram post implied that Robin was to be taken from Damian so that he'd learn a lesson.

I think it was more like the current circle of pals with power behind the scenes [Synder's boy Tynion and bendis] wanted their favourite to become Robin and were prepared to do anything to push Damian out. 

Nothing to do with ignoring RSOB.
Goliath is around in current canon. Batman beyond, Maya doesn't have a home so of course she's not around in story.

Goliath and maya are not exactly easy to incorporate into a story and before glass no one but Maya's creator and his partner ever used her

----------


## dietrich

> Thanks for posting this picture.
> 
> DC seldom knows what to do with surprises.


Why would this be a surprise to the people who hold all the data? dC /WB knows more than fans who is loved and who isn't which is why we get rubbish like 'why does DC give Batman so much popularity' 
'Why do they keep shoving.....down our necks' characters like Damian and Harley get so much hate since the vocal minority think everyone hates them but WB [not DC actually] knows the facts

It not that they are surprised, it's just that at times writers play favourites. This isn't the 1st time they've tried to replace Damian with the fav of the lead Batman writer

----------


## Shadow1322

> No Glass said that the mandate was for him to lose the mantle not renounce it. There's a big difference. The wording of that instagram post implied that Robin was to be taken from Damian so that he'd learn a lesson.
> 
> I think it was more like the current circle of pals with power behind the scenes [Synder's boy Tynion and bendis] wanted their favourite to become Robin and were prepared to do anything to push Damian out. 
> 
> Nothing to do with ignoring RSOB.
> Goliath is around in current canon. Batman beyond, Maya doesn't have a home so of course she's not around in story.
> 
> Goliath and maya are not exactly easy to incorporate into a story and before glass no one but Maya's creator and his partner ever used her


Batman beyond where evil or has gone back to league of assassins even thought he be continuously show to reject idea even in the teen titans comics. Also batman beyond I thought was link to 90 cartoon I mean less joker Tim not include in comic and other thing for cartoon that have no connection I still find it weird that Batman beyond is canon to main continuity

Also Batman beyond  is ending 


The wording of that instagram post implied that Robin was to be taken from Damian so that he'd learn a lesson.

Not this again I not mood for your failed attempted to shield bad writing and editorial choose that most people that like Damian are calling out






> It not that they are surprised, it's just that at times writers play favourites. This isn't the 1st time they've tried to replace Damian with the fav of the lead Batman writer


Yes it still bad writing

----------


## Shadow1322

QUOTE=phantom1592;5146523]Agreed. crunching timelines is a disaster to their experiences. 

One of my big gripes is Damian supposedly being 'so awesome'... The whole 'He's been trained as an assassin since birth'  is a joke. First of all... no he wasn't. Best case scenario he started when he was between 3-5 years old... and since he's only about 10 when he makes his debut that only gives him 5-7 years of 'intense training'.  in reality its probably closer to 5 when he's actually physically CAPABLE of doing the moves.  Ra's has henchgoons with more experience than that. 

Now maybe if Damian WAS Ra's somehow deaged or reincarnated from the lazarus pit... and had all his years of knowledge... Heck, he'd still have trouble with the child body, but at least that... that... would actually be a really cool story. O.O
...[/QUOTE]

Right so new 52 show that around 2 or  3  when he started and he was ten as his original first appearance show mean nothing good to know.

ybe if Damian WAS Ra's somehow deaged or reincarnated from the lazarus pit... and had all his years of knowledge... Heck, he'd still have trouble with the child body, yes that moment you think maybe I just don't this character and should not comment about they  and I apologise the other that normally post but phantom1592; don't make comment to just downplayed other characters especially if clear don't know anything about these characters.

One of my big gripes is Damian supposedly being 'so awesome'

You mean like all the robin. something of worth  alo s as this about Damian r reply to you in a post centre on Tim would be unfair to people post in that one

----------


## Restingvoice

> Goliath is in Batman Beyond, at least. And Maya did, if briefly, pop up in The Terrifics.
> 
> 
> Ugh. I actively avoid any story that ships any of the brothers together.


It's not a ship. Damian and Tim had a feud, so Damian paying homage to Tim is showing that he actually cares

----------


## Shadow1322

> It's not a ship. Damian and Tim had a feud, so Damian paying homage to Tim is showing that he actually cares


Damian paying homage to Tim is showing that he actually cares
They no longer fight but cares for each is probably too much

----------


## redmax99

> Damian paying homage to Tim is showing that he actually cares
> They no longer fight but cares for each is probably too much


no they care about each other they just show it thru insults ... very mean insults.

----------


## Shadow1322

> no they care about each other they just show it thru insults ... very mean insults.


Maybe but I still don't think Damian would pay homage to Tim  . Dick  yes but probably not Tim

----------


## dietrich

> Batman beyond where evil or has gone back to league of assassins even thought he be continuously show to reject idea even in the teen titans comics. Also batman beyond I thought was link to 90 cartoon I mean less joker Tim not include in comic and other thing for cartoon that have no connection I still find it weird that Batman beyond is canon to main continuity
> 
> Also Batman beyond  is ending 
> 
> 
> The wording of that instagram post implied that Robin was to be taken from Damian so that he'd learn a lesson.
> 
> Not this again I not mood for your failed attempted to shield bad writing and editorial choose that most people that like Damian are calling out
> 
> ...


Everything you just typed is moot and doesn't matter since everyone here agrees it's bad writing but bad writing doesn't make it any less canon now does it?

Sad to hear you are not in the mood perhaps you should take a break and come back when you are in a better mood and willing to engage with posters whose views might differ from yours. We are always here.

----------


## dietrich

> QUOTE=phantom1592;5146523]Agreed. crunching timelines is a disaster to their experiences. 
> 
> One of my big gripes is Damian supposedly being 'so awesome'... The whole 'He's been trained as an assassin since birth'  is a joke. First of all... no he wasn't. Best case scenario he started when he was between 3-5 years old... and since he's only about 10 when he makes his debut that only gives him 5-7 years of 'intense training'.  in reality its probably closer to 5 when he's actually physically CAPABLE of doing the moves.  Ra's has henchgoons with more experience than that. 
> 
> Now maybe if Damian WAS Ra's somehow deaged or reincarnated from the lazarus pit... and had all his years of knowledge... Heck, he'd still have trouble with the child body, but at least that... that... would actually be a really cool story. O.O
> ...


Right so new 52 show that around 2 or  3  when he started and he was ten as his original first appearance show mean nothing good to know.

ybe if Damian WAS Ra's somehow deaged or reincarnated from the lazarus pit... and had all his years of knowledge... Heck, he'd still have trouble with the child body, yes that moment you think maybe I just don't this character and should not comment about they  and I apologise the other that normally post but phantom1592; don't make comment to just downplayed other characters especially if clear don't know anything about these characters.

One of my big gripes is Damian supposedly being 'so awesome'

You mean like all the robin. something of worth  alo s as this about Damian r reply to you in a post centre on Tim would be unfair to people post in that one[/QUOTE]

This a comment from The Tim thread. It doesn't belong here
Also you are incorrect not all Robins are shown to have exaggerated OTT skills like Damian. Jason wasn't presented as a prodigy. neither was Steph. They were just regular kids.

----------


## Shadow1322

> Everything you just typed is moot and doesn't matter since everyone here agrees it's bad writing but bad writing doesn't make it any less canon now does it?.


You point mean hold more weight of most teen titans were shown to muck up or act in way are heroic yet were give free pass  while Damian were set to fail and before last was made to take point for only his actions but his entire team i.e. Roundhouse actions so you still shielding bad writing




> to hear you are not in the mood perhaps you should take a break and come back when you are in a better mood and willing to engage with posters whose views might differ from yours. We are always here.


And I clear made I was head you opinion on this subject and there nothing you offer that good enough that worth read you argument





> This a comment from The Tim thread. It doesn't belong here
> Also you are incorrect not all Robins are shown to have exaggerated OTT skills like Damian. Jason wasn't presented as a prodigy. neither was Steph. They were just regular kids..


"something of worth alo s as this about Damian  reply to you in a post centre on Tim would be unfair to people post in that one"
I never say prodigy .. You did rather my comment was You mean like all the robin. something of worth to let be honest they  probably  talking more about Dick and Tim

----------


## dietrich

> You point mean hold more weight of most teen titans were shown to muck up or act in way are heroic yet were give free pass  while Damian were set to fail and before last was made to take point for only his actions but his entire team i.e. Roundhouse actions so you still shielding bad writing
> 
> 
> 
> And I clear made I was head you opinion on this subject and there nothing you offer that good enough that worth read you argument
> 
> 
> 
> "something of worth alo s as this about Damian  reply to you in a post centre on Tim would be unfair to people post in that one"
> I never say prodigy .. You did rather my comment was You mean like all the robin. something of worth to let be honest they  probably  talking more about Dick and Tim


I'm not sure what you are trying to say to me since your post is incoherent. I did however piece together the part's about Bad writing and nothing I offer good enough to make reading my argument worthy.

Well then don't read my arguments and comments that are directed at others. Don't reply to comments I make to others. Don't engage me. I wasn't talking to you and I have to desire to talk to you Understand?

Don't waste your sweet time replying to my comments to others if they are not worth it savvy?

Bad writing or not Damian is still 100% responsible until we get a story that absolves him of blame

The comment from Tim's thread is fine to reply to there even if it's Damian centred.
Replying to the comment here makes no sense since the person you are replying to doesn't get to engage.

That is not how forum's work

----------


## Shadow1322

> Bad writing or not Damian is still 100% responsible until we get a story that absolves him of blame


This my point with as I have read your opinion on this subject and there nothing you offer that good enough that worth read your argument because you made the same point before, but after read over teen titans second team your opinion on responsible don't hold up as nearly every character in That team responsible for a mistake or bad action 

That's your opinion, not my especially when most members who did something wrong were not thought they actions in the story that absolves but rather the team just say They absolve or in Wallace West case it was a recon so maybe this is not the hill to fight for and no going into the fact Damian being blame action he had no connection with. 


Damian is still 100% responsible is your opinion and I made clear before, that is something especially with this teen titans storyline you should not try force others to agree with you.

----------


## dietrich

> This my point with as I have read your opinion on this subject and there nothing you offer that good enough that worth read your argument because you made the same point before, but after read over teen titans second team your opinion on responsible don't hold up as nearly every character in That team responsible for a mistake or bad action 
> 
> That's your opinion, not my especially when most members who did something wrong were not thought they actions in the story that absolves but rather the team just say They absolve or in Wallace West case it was a recon so maybe this is not the hill to fight for and no going into the fact Damian being blame action he had no connection with. 
> 
> 
> Damian is still 100% responsible is your opinion and I made clear before, that is something especially with this teen titans storyline you should not try force others to agree with you.


That is not an opinion that is canon Facts. Damian is 100% responsible for his actions in TT

----------


## Shadow1322

> That is not an opinion that is canon Facts. Damian is 100% responsible for his actions in TT


if teen titans can hand wave roundhouse action other other characters action then Damian is 100% responsible feel forced and once you under that people like what batman to be loner character then become even more forced I did say not to push this did I not

So no still your opinion

----------


## CPSparkles

> This my point with as I have read your opinion on this subject and there nothing you offer that good enough that worth read your argument because you made the same point before, but after read over teen titans second team your opinion on responsible don't hold up as nearly every character in That team responsible for a mistake or bad action 
> 
> That's your opinion, not my especially when most members who did something wrong were not thought they actions in the story that absolves but rather the team just say They absolve or in Wallace West case it was a recon so maybe this is not the hill to fight for and no going into the fact Damian being blame action he had no connection with. 
> 
> 
> Damian is still 100% responsible is your opinion and I made clear before, that is something especially with this teen titans storyline you should not try force others to agree with you.


I know it's tempting to search for excuses for damian's actions in TT but sadly unlike KF he has none. You could say that he took the advice of his mentor Jason but that doesn't excuse it. 

Damian was manipulated or tricked. he made those choices by himself. He is responsible for his actions.

That isn't personal opinion, That isn't subjective or even open to interpretation or debate. That is just simple objective facts.

----------


## CPSparkles

> if teen titans can hand wave roundhouse action other other characters action then Damian is 100% responsible feel forced and once you under that people like what batman to be loner character then become even more forced I did say not to push this did I not
> 
> So no still your opinion


I don't think you understand what you are saying. Your arguments makes no sense. That or you don't understand what Dietrich is saying.

Either way you are not making sense

----------


## Shadow1322

> I know it's tempting to search for excuses for damian's actions in TT but sadly unlike KF he has none. You could say that he took the advice of his mentor Jason but that doesn't excuse it. 
> 
> Damian was manipulated or tricked. he made those choices by himself. He is responsible for his actions.
> 
> That isn't personal opinion, That isn't subjective or even open to interpretation or debate. That is just simple objective facts.


That my point no reason for his actions just rushed issues that hand wave something half thought reason that barely fit Damian development back 
I know it's tempting to search for excuses for damian's actions in TT 
Also given Damian she and events with dick and alfred if they tried to work  plan it better.

Damian was manipulated or tricked. he made those choices by himself. He is responsible for his actions.
Which go against his part development that he had before the second teen titans team and as this storyline never try to explain why expect on second annual or was all but rushed I think I can point out issue with the writing and not agree that his were his responsible as writer never did good enough job explain why Damian fall backwards with his development

----------


## CPSparkles

> That my point no reason for his actions just rushed issues that hand wave something half thought reason that barely fit Damian development back 
> I know it's tempting to search for excuses for damian's actions in TT 
> Also given Damian she and events with dick and alfred if they tried to work  plan it better.
> 
> Damian was manipulated or tricked. he made those choices by himself. He is responsible for his actions.
> Which go against his part development that he had before the second teen titans team and as this storyline never try to explain why expect on second annual or was all but rushed I think I can point out issue with the writing and not agree that his were his responsible as writer never did good enough job explain why Damian fall backwards with his development


Yes Damian's actions were out of character and you can argue that they were out of character but that still doesn't make him any less responsible.

Bruce was Out of character in Kings run but fans still hold him responsible for what happened. Fans still drag him for chilling on the beach while gotham was held hostage.

It's the same thing here. Damian was written out of character but he is still responsible.

in my previous post I meant Damian *wasn't* manipulated or tricked

----------


## Morgoth

> I can point out issue with the writing and not agree that his were his responsible as writer never did good enough job explain why Damian fall backwards with his development


No, you can't. It doesn't matter, bad or good writing, we've seen Damian's actions. If they will say, that Thawne also manipulated him just like with Wallace, that's when it will be possible to say that he's no responsible for his actions. 
In any case, they will still most likely get away from this plot as far as possible, after Tomasi will handle it.

----------


## Shadow1322

> Yes Damian's actions were out of character and you can argue that they were out of character but that still doesn't make him any less responsible.
> 
> Bruce was Out of character in Kings run but fans still hold him responsible for what happened. Fans still drag him for chilling on the beach while gotham was held hostage.
> 
> It's the same thing here. Damian was written out of character but he is still responsible.
> 
> in my previous post I meant Damian *wasn't* manipulated or tricked


Fair I guess still not convinced that best way look this 





> No, you can't. It doesn't matter, bad or good writing, we've seen Damian's actions. If they will say, that Thawne also manipulated him just like with Wallace, that's when it will be possible to say that he's no responsible for his actions. 
> In any case, they will still most likely get away from this plot as far as possible, after Tomasi will handle it.


Yes and while it does look it. is move that way but at this moment is still unclear what going to happen with Damian in general

you can't. It doesn't matter, bad or good writing, we've seen Damian's actions
That feel out character in my opinion especially as the no real reason even to have this quick change but i wait to see how handle for now

----------


## Blue22

> if teen titans can hand wave roundhouse action other other characters action then Damian is 100% responsible feel forced and once you under that people like what batman to be loner character then become even more forced I did say not to push this did I not
> 
> So no still your opinion


Did they hand wave Roundhouse's actions or did they forgive him and give him a chance to redeem himself? I hate defending the guy but he definitely took responsibility for his actions and the team chose to forgive him. Whether or not he did enough to earn that forgiveness is up for debate. But either way, I dont remember anyone acting like what happened wasn't his fault.

----------


## Korath

> Did they hand wave Roundhouse's actions or did they forgive him and give him a chance to redeem himself? I hate defending the guy but he definitely took responsibility for his actions and the team chose to forgive him. Whether or not he did enough to earn that forgiveness is up for debate. But either way, I dont remember anyone acting like what happened wasn't his fault.


They did not handwave it at all. Roundhouse even today knows he screwed up big time and try to make amends.

----------


## Shadow1322

> They did not handwave it at all. Roundhouse even today knows he screwed up big time and try to make amends.


Yes was actually again  Roundhouse even today knows he screwed up big time yet that don't cross and yes he did. As his actions that remove Djnn 

try to make amends
Ha But make clear say he try make amends then being dead weight as character is not making amends






> Did they hand wave Roundhouse's actions or did they forgive him and give him a chance to redeem himself? I hate defending the guy but he definitely took responsibility for his actions and the team chose to forgive him. Whether or not he did enough to earn that forgiveness is up for debate. But either way, I dont remember anyone acting like what happened wasn't his fault.


Did they hand wave Roundhouse's actions or did they forgive him and give him a chance to redeem himself?

With this writer they same thing as point out he never explain why one character is worth the chance to be  redeem  and another is not when roundhouse for example  action remove Djnn among other issues.

he definitely took responsibility for his actions and the team chose to forgive him

Actually he take responsibility Djnn issue if remember correctly and only after the other characters push him on it

Also were he did enough to earn that forgiveness  in my no to point

----------


## king81992

Roundhouse was the only person on that team who had a problem with what Damian was doing, he went about things the worse way possible.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> Roundhouse was the only person on that team who had a problem with what Damian was doing, he went about things the worse way possible.


This^

Everyone else was either too busy enabling Robin and Djinn like Emiko or acting complicit like Wallace and Crush. Roundhouse messed up but I lost sympathy for Djinn, her character felt more like an anti-villain.

----------


## Grandmaster_J

> This^
> 
> Everyone else was either too busy enabling Robin and Djinn like Emiko or acting complicit like Wallace and Crush. Roundhouse messed up but I lost sympathy for Djinn, her character felt more like an anti-villain.


Something I'd been saying for the longest. Djinn, to me was the worst of the three. Roundhouse is easy to dislike to a reader because of his personality and making unfunny jokes but he's the most normal out of the entire group. He's not a natural hero, probably shouldn't be, and his writing shows it, well.

----------


## CPSparkles

RH is just as bad if not the worst. He joined the team for revenge and purposefully endangered and the team just like Damian.

Sure his sister was a casualty of crime fighting but that happens. I'd like to know a hero who doesn't/never left some collateral damage.

Rh also went along with everything Damian did. I didn't see him quit the Team. 

Damian couldn't do all that alone. They are all as bad as each other expect the TMs can also add weak minded and cowardice to the list. Aside from Wallace that is.

----------


## Grandmaster_J

> Sure his sister was a casualty of crime fighting but that happens. I'd like to know a hero who doesn't/never left some collateral damage.
> 
> Rh also went along with everything Damian did. I didn't see him quit the Team. 
> 
> Damian couldn't do all that alone.


All the more reason he's justified for doing what he did; just because you don't see his sister's death as a big deal, doesn't mean he shouldn't. He reacted on impulse and emotion something anyone his age would do. That's why I'm not upset with Damian for his reaction to Alfred's death.

He blindly followed, Damian, because he had no idea about the prison until it was discovered by, Wallace. Afterwards he plotted his revenge tour, and sure it blew up in his face. 

You're correct that Damian couldn't have done all that on his own which is why the most deserving blame imo is on himself, Emiko, and Djinn. Emi hasn't really acknowledged helping put together the prison, and Djinn is gone excluding her from any contributions; even going so far as to victimize her at the very end despite helping Damian brainwash the criminals.

----------


## CPSparkles

> All the more reason he's justified for doing what he did; just because you don't see his sister's death as a big deal, doesn't mean he shouldn't. He reacted on impulse and emotion something anyone his age would do. That's why I'm not upset with Damian for his reaction to Alfred's death.
> 
> He blindly followed, Damian, because he had no idea about the prison until it was discovered by, Wallace. Afterwards he plotted his revenge tour, and sure it blew up in his face. 
> 
> You're correct that Damian couldn't have done all that on his own which is why the most deserving blame imo is on himself, Emiko, and Djinn. Emi hasn't really acknowledged helping put together the prison, and Djinn is gone excluding her from any contributions; even going so far as to victimize her at the very end despite helping Damian brainwash the criminals.


RH didn't act on impluse. his actions were premeditated and he had plenty of time to consider his actions.

Without knowing the full details I can't rank Emi and Djinn the same as Damian who is the most to blame.

In my previous post I was talking about the TMs Damian excluded

----------


## king81992

> RH is just as bad if not the worst. He joined the team for revenge and purposefully endangered and the team just like Damian.
> 
> Sure his sister was a casualty of crime fighting but that happens. I'd like to know a hero who doesn't/never left some collateral damage.
> 
> Rh also went along with everything Damian did. I didn't see him quit the Team. 
> 
> Damian couldn't do all that alone. They are all as bad as each other expect the TMs can also add weak minded and cowardice to the list. Aside from Wallace that is.


Wallace is probably the worse one, he's worked with Damian in the past and should've done more to call him out. That seems to be a core trait of Wallace's character, allegedly has morals but doesn't have the balls or convictions to do the right thing when it really counts.

Roundhouse DID have reservations about the prison and brainwashing after he found out, but the others didn't pay attention to his concerns. The only thing that kept him from being 100% justified in betraying them was holding a grudge against Damian for the death of his sister.

----------


## Shadow1322

> Wallace is probably the worse one, he's worked with Damian in the past and should've done more to call him out. That seems to be a core trait of Wallace's character, allegedly has morals but doesn't have the balls or convictions to do the right thing when it really counts.
> 
> Roundhouse DID have reservations about the prison and brainwashing after he found out, but the others didn't pay attention to his concerns. The only thing that kept him from being 100% justified in betraying them was holding a grudge against Damian for the death of his sister.




Wallace is probably the worse one, he's worked with Damian in the past and should've done more to call him out. That seems to be a core trait of Wallace's character, allegedly has morals but doesn't have the balls or convictions to do the right thing when it really counts.

Never read flash but first team Wallace after  mistake with deathstroke and place back on to teams again that was not really issue for little amount time he back in the time


should've done more to call him out. 

Really that issue that nobody called him out really

----------


## Grandmaster_J

> Wallace is probably the worse one, he's worked with Damian in the past and should've done more to call him out. That seems to be a core trait of Wallace's character, allegedly has morals but doesn't have the balls or convictions to do the right thing when it really counts.


He should've done more physically, yes. The calling out part, he was front and center majority of the time.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> Something I'd been saying for the longest. Djinn, to me was the worst of the three. Roundhouse is easy to dislike to a reader because of his personality and making unfunny jokes but he's the most normal out of the entire group. He's not a natural hero, probably shouldn't be, and his writing shows it, well.



At least Robin's just a kid. You can always say he was just acting out of immaturity and lack of better judgement. Djinn is supposed to be 100+ years old and she manipulated all the TT to act like sociopaths.

----------


## Digifiend

> Wallace is probably the worse one, he's worked with Damian in the past and should've done more to call him out. That seems to be a core trait of Wallace's character, allegedly has morals but doesn't have the balls or convictions to do the right thing when it really counts.
> 
> Never read flash but first team Wallace after  mistake with deathstroke and place back on to teams again that was not really issue for little amount time he back in the time
> 
> 
> should've done more to call him out. 
> 
> Really that issue that nobody called him out really


You can blame Eobard Thawne for that, he messed with Wallace's head, causing him to go along with Robin's crazy schemes. It was explained in Flash a couple of issues ago, everything keeping the Flash Family apart was his fault.

----------


## CPSparkles

Wallace did call Damian out multiple times. besides It's not his responsibility to call Damian out. He is just a sidekick with less experience than Damian. Even before it was revealed that wallace was being manipulated I have no beef with him.

Damian decided to follow a bad mentor in the shape of Jason.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Wallace did call Damian out multiple times. besides It's not his responsibility to call Damian out. He is just a sidekick with less experience than Damian. Even before it was revealed that wallace was being manipulated I have no beef with him.
> 
> Damian decided to follow a bad mentor in the shape of Jason.


Wally west had spine enough to stand up to Dick I dont see why wally 2 cant

----------


## CPSparkles

> Wally west had spine enough to stand up to Dick I dont see why wally 2 cant



That's not fair. That's like saying why isn't Damian capable of being as good as Dick Grayson or comparing both their times as Robins.

Wallace isn't Wally.

----------


## Katana500

> That's not fair. That's like saying why isn't Damian capable of being as good as Dick Grayson or comparing both their times as Robins.
> 
> Wallace isn't Wally.


Wallace is what 15? So I think folk are expecting a bit much from a teenager.

Also Wallace was the main moral conscience throughout the run and frequently did argue against Damian (+ Emiko - who for most of the run was firmly on Damian's side).

Wallace did get a bit sidelined in the sense of making plans. But their wasn't much more he could do when 2/3rds of a triumvirate are set on something.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I think Wallace has the "silence fault", but can't say Damian's acts are his responsibility in any level, he has his own fault for 've not stand up for what he believes, because even talking with Damian or having a fight, Damian would not change his opinion (I thiiiinkkkk), because it was what happened even with Djinn, Crush(? and Round House talking against him.
Also, Wallace has this not strong personality, his abstain about other character too, this isn't like he is not carrying about Damian.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

And, hello ^^/ I am back.
Are you guys having fights here? I did a dynamic read, but I feel something weird.

----------


## Rac7d*

> That's not fair. That's like saying why isn't Damian capable of being as good as Dick Grayson or comparing both their times as Robins.
> 
> Wallace isn't Wally.


Whats not fair having the ability to speak up. Damian does have to be like dick. If wally cant stop something wrong going on in his own home what right does he have to try and stop wrong in the world. All he did in this run was complain.

----------


## CPSparkles

> And, hello ^^/ I am back.
> Are you guys having fights here? I did a dynamic read, but I feel something weird.


Welcome back  :Smile:

----------


## adrikito

> As much as I dislike him renouncing Robin title, for some reason this scene is soooo satisfying for me
> 
> https://twitter.com/daminyonok


I think the same about the scene.




> Current Mood
> 
> https://twitter.com/henna_wia
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/henna_wia


Now REPAIR what you have done DC.

I miss Gleason, Maya and Goliath.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Any chance of Jason participates in Damian's intervention? Because Jon will do it, I still think maybe Dick will appears and in the last comic Jason said for let the adults deal with Damian.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I think the same about the scene.
> 
> 
> 
> Now REPAIR what you have done DC.
> 
> I miss Gleason, Maya and Goliath.


I like when he gives the R for Bruce, he looks like a child when he lowers his voice and speak frankly with older characters.
Still dreaming with TT team of Dreams Damian, Maya, Jon, blond girl and 1 or 2 other characters....

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Ah, I want a artistic feeling opinion (*-*)///
Gabriel Piccolo has one playlist for each TT member (unless cyborg), it's like a vibe of the character.

Which is Damian's music for you? For me is Pumped Up Kicks of Foster the People (TuT)/
It helps me when I draw, art plus art.

----------


## Shadow1322

> I like when he gives the R for Bruce, he looks like a child when he lowers his voice and speak frankly with older characters.
> Still dreaming with TT team of Dreams Damian, Maya, Jon, blond girl and 1 or 2 other characters....


Yes that you opinion and that fine but I rather that  if Damian was   writing in character and going go down path again maybe next they actually set up better.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Yes that you opinion and that fine but I rather that  if Damian was   writing in character and going go down path again maybe next they actually set up better.


You mean you prefer Damian going to a evil path for a while and after comeback?

----------


## Shadow1322

> You mean you prefer Damian going to a evil path for a while and after comeback?


No I rather Damian did not going to a evil path 

going go down path again maybe next they actually set up better.

I just comment that  if D.C. really what to push this idea that next time they sure handle it better . I was.not saying it was good idea as I do not believe it  is a good idea

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> No I rather Damian did not going to a evil path 
> 
> going go down path again maybe next they actually set up better.
> 
> I just comment that  if D.C. really what to push this idea that next time they sure handle it better . I was.not saying it was good idea as I do not believe it  is a good idea


I am having some problem for understand your English, but think I got this time UwU/

----------


## Rebeca Armus

***
And "In the End" of Link Parking, it's the present Damian's song.

----------


## Digifiend

> I like when he gives the R for Bruce, he looks like a child when he lowers his voice and speak frankly with older characters.
> Still dreaming with TT team of Dreams Damian, Maya, Jon, *blond girl* and 1 or 2 other characters....


I assume you mean Kathy, aka Beacon, the alien farmer girl who was Jon's friend in the Tomasi Superman run.

----------


## Restingvoice

> I assume you mean Kathy, aka Beacon, the alien farmer girl who was Jon's friend in the Tomasi Superman run.


Oh, I forgot she has a super name. 

Beacon should meet Signal.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I assume you mean Kathy, aka Beacon, the alien farmer girl who was Jon's friend in the Tomasi Superman run.


I don't know why is so hard for me remember her name >< but yeah it's Kathy. <3

----------


## Eckri

> I like when he gives the R for Bruce, he looks like a child when he lowers his voice and speak frankly with older characters.
> Still dreaming with TT team of Dreams Damian, Maya, Jon, blond girl and 1 or 2 other characters....


Wally West's kids are back in town, might as well include them.
Considering Irey West and Damian were supposed to be in a comic together, with Supergirl as team leader.

----------


## Katana500

Honestly a book with Jon, Damian, Kathy and Maya would be awesome.

I still reckon DC should make a new Wondergirl. Could give her a new friend aswell maybe making it a boy for an equal gender ratio.  Rounding out a team of six with three legacy characters and three new ones.

----------


## Morgoth

Well, if they will normally finish Damian's storyline in December and deage Jon (this, judging by the solicits and Earth-3 twist in AC, really can happen), then such a team is just the most logical move for DC. Moreover, Wally's children are back, and we also have Teen Lantern, lol. They have every opportunity to make this team.

----------


## Konja7

> Well, if they will normally finish Damian's storyline in December and deage Jon (this, judging by the solicits and Earth-3 twist in AC, really can happen), then such a team is just the most logical move for DC. Moreover, Wally's children are back, and we also have Teen Lantern, lol. They have every opportunity to make this team.


Although I think a team with another young superheroes related to the JL is possible, I really doubt Maya or Kathy will be part of the group. It doesn't seem other writers in DC apart from Tomasi or Gleason care so much about these characters.

----------


## scary harpy

> Honestly a book with Jon, Damian, Kathy and Maya would be awesome.
> 
> *I still reckon DC should make a new Wondergirl.* Could give her a new friend aswell maybe making it a boy for an equal gender ratio.  Rounding out a team of six with three legacy characters and three new ones.


We have 2 Wondergirls: Donna Troy and Cassandra Sandsmark.

Donna cannot seem to move beyond this identity. Cassie is still newish.

I don't know if DC is ready to create yet another new character. DC cannot handle all it's existing characters.  :Frown:

----------


## CPSparkles

I honestly don't want another Team book. i'd love a Damian solo by Tom Taylor or Langzing.

Damian needs fixing and healing. I want the focus on him and no one else

----------


## Eckri

> I honestly don't want another Team book. i'd love a Damian solo by Tim Taylor or Langzing.
> 
> Damian needs fixing and healing. I want the focus on him and no one else


In favor of that, it's still fresh with him quitting as Robin to be in a team again. 
I'd like to see a Damian solo with him just travelling on his own, and meeting some people.

----------


## CPSparkles

So Harley quinn season 3 has been announced. If the the plans are the still the same then there's bigger parts for Damian and Babsgirl.

The delay in announcing season 3 was due to contracts.

----------


## CPSparkles

> In favor of that, it's still fresh with him quitting as Robin to be in a team again. 
> I'd like to see a Damian solo with him just travelling on his own, and meeting some people.


Yep. I like that idea. Like a Brave and the Bold type book with different guests/meting different people.

----------


## Morgoth

> Although I think a team with another young superheroes related to the JL is possible, I really doubt Maya or Kathy will be part of the group. It doesn't seem other writers in DC apart from Tomasi or Gleason care so much about these characters.


It depends who will handle it.
I wouldn't be surprised, if Tomasi eventually just will get a book with Damian, Jon, etc. He himself kind of admitted that he didn't tell everything he wanted about them, fans have been asking for something like that for two years. If they do resume Super Sons or do a team title with them, to be honest, I don't see any other candidate as a writer. Moreover, he is one of the few writers they have who are really interested. And if he'll get it, he'll bring Maya and Kathy back, probably.

----------


## CPSparkles

I don't see tomasi wanting to go from Superman to batman to a sidekick. He likes the characters but people normally want to move up wards.

Tomasi on Damian is about as likely as Tom Taylor getting to do a Damian solo. not going to happen right now.

With DC reviewing big contracts, The move to graphic novels and everything else changing back stage I honestly shouldn't even be speculating. 

Damian might not even get a title

----------


## Shadow1322

> I don't see tomasi wanting to go from Superman to batman to a sidekick. He likes the characters but people normally want to move up wards.
> 
> Tomasi on Damian is about as likely as Tom Taylor getting to do a Damian solo. not going to happen right now.
> 
> With DC reviewing big contracts, The move to graphic novels and everything else changing back stage I honestly shouldn't even be speculating. 
> 
> Damian might not even get a title


With DC reviewing big contracts, The move to graphic novels and everything else changing back stage I honestly shouldn't even be speculating. 

The batman and detective comics are not going away so if Damian was sidekick i.e. Robin   or is made place back to that role then he will appear in one of these comic probably detective comics.

So let not act like if Damian stop shown up it because of that and not were not he robin mean at point their probably no writer interested in character that 14 year old and is made to be written like red hood clone rather his actually characteristic and development.

The move to graphic novels 

Which mean.what and actually they still going for a mix of how they do thing now and general graphic novels  thought again with manga that lost term as one shot of story with over 900 chapter also fit

----------


## Restingvoice

Did they ever explain why Damian went to the League in Beyond?

----------


## CPSparkles

> Did they ever explain why Damian went to the League in Beyond?


 The suit drove him mad and when he got better and returned Bruce had replaced him.

----------


## CPSparkles

> With DC reviewing big contracts, The move to graphic novels and everything else changing back stage I honestly shouldn't even be speculating. 
> 
> The batman and detective comics are not going away so if Damian was sidekick i.e. Robin   or is made place back to that role then he will appear in one of these comic probably detective comics.
> 
> So let not act like if Damian stop shown up it because of that and not were not he robin mean at point their probably no writer interested in character that 14 year old and is made to be written like red hood clone rather his actually characteristic and development.
> 
> The move to graphic novels 
> 
> Which mean.what and actually they still going for a mix of how they do thing now and general graphic novels  thought again with manga that lost term as one shot of story with over 900 chapter also fit



Robin hasn't been a regular part of the main batman titles since the 90's when DC decided that Robin should be independent. That is the reason why Tim and the 90's Robin title was introduced
So no you won't be seeing a regular sidekick next to Batman and that has zero to do with Damian or Red Hood or what ever you were implying but more to do with things that predate both those character's.

DC is moving more towards Graphic novels an YA titles which have been out selling comics. 

Have you not been following the recent changes and all the news coming out of Dc?

Maybe you should because I can't explain it all.

There's lots of writers interested in red hood clones. Red Hood is very popular. Anti heroes generally are. Look at Batman  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Shadow1322

> You assume a lot and yet you lack the enough knowledge of DC's History to make this wild assumptions.
> 
> Robin hasn't been a regular part of the main batman titles since the 90's when DC decided that Robin should be independent. That is the reason why Tim and the 90's Robin title was introduced
> So no you won't be seeing a regular sidekick next to Batman and that has zero to do with Damian or Red Hood or what ever you were implying but more to do with things that predate both those character's.
> 
> DC is moving more towards Graphic novels an YA titles which have been out selling comics. 
> 
> Have you not been following the recent changes and all the news coming out of Dc?
> 
> Maybe you should because I can't explain it all.


Robin hasn't been a regular part of the main batman titles since the 90's when DC decided that Robin should be independent. That is the reason why Tim and the 90's Robin title was introduced

You understand this not the 90's right 


So no you won't be seeing a regular sidekick next to Batman and that has zero to do with Damian or Red Hood or what ever you were implying but more to do with things that predate both those character's.

You one act like Damian would be removed I point to detective comic were outside of super son which by the way is Graphic novels  to understand and fit into YA titles  so don't push it
Well actually it does if you argument is just remove the comic all together Robin hasn't been a regular part of the main batman titles since the 90's when DC decided that Robin should be independent.  Witch is not true as Damian was attached to both batman with barman and robin and would show up in the barman comics during new 52 have you actually read in of the comics that Damian part of it you just here.


There's lots of writers interested in red hood clones. Red Hood is very popular. Anti heroes generally are. Look at Batman 

Yes  red hood is popular and so is Damian when he written in character so your point


Except the difference between Batman and Red hood and act like the same is once again reduce the both characters

You mean like teen titans second team.writer yes it judging by that Mark that don't help your argument nor fact you reduce my point from  character that 14 year old and is made to be written like red hood clone rather his actually characteristic and development. To written like red hood clone yes maybe there writer that what write a character but also what to remove the characteristic or development for whatever but hardly see a reason to.call them.




> The suit drove him mad and when he got better and returned Bruce had replaced him.


So not completely red hood but close enough

----------


## CPSparkles

> Robin hasn't been a regular part of the main batman titles since the 90's when DC decided that Robin should be independent. That is the reason why Tim and the 90's Robin title was introduced
> 
> You understand this not the 90's right 
> 
> 
> So no you won't be seeing a regular sidekick next to Batman and that has zero to do with Damian or Red Hood or what ever you were implying but more to do with things that predate both those character's.
> 
> You one act like Damian would be removed I point to detective comic were outside of super son which by the way is Graphic novels  to understand and fit into YA titles  so don't push it
> Well actually it does if you argument is just remove the comic all together Robin hasn't been a regular part of the main batman titles since the 90's when DC decided that Robin should be independent.  Witch is not true as Damian was attached to both batman with barman and robin and would show up in the barman comics during new 52 have you actually read in of the comics that Damian part of it you just here.
> ...


Batman and Robin just like Batman Inc wasn't part of the main batman titles. Batman and tec are the main Batman titles.

Batman and Robin is a Spin off.

Are you sure I thought it was 1993?

Supersons was a mediocre YA title so no it's unlikely that AT&T will be investing in more from Ridley when titles with other characters made the newyork best sellers list.

You make wild baseless assumptions and I don't care to do that.

I can tell you that the Dynamic duo hasn't been a thing for decades now and they are not about to make a return in 2021. 

Red Hood uses no lethal rounds, doesn't kill and agreed to play by batman's rules. Damian killed Brother Blood and isn't playing by Batman's rules. red hood is currently part of the batfamily. Damian isn't. he isn't a Red hood clone. Do you even read these comics or are you just repeating the same assumptions and comments over and over?  :Confused: 

Yes Beyond Damian is a 30+ Red hood clone. Maybe writers will be more willing to write a 38 yr old Red Hood clone cos if not then Damian fans are screwed lol.

----------


## Shadow1322

> Batman and Robin just like Batman Inc wasn't part of the main batman titles. Batman and tec are the main Batman titles.
> 
> Batman and Robin is a Spin off.
> 
> Are you sure I thought it was 1993?
> 
> Supersons was a mediocre YA title so no it's unlikely that AT&T will be investing in more from Ridley when titles with other characters made the newyork best sellers list
> 
> 
> ...


Red Hood uses no lethal rounds, doesn't kill and agreed to play by batman's rules. Damian killed Brother Blood and isn't playing by Batman's rules. red hood is currently part of the batfamily. Damian isn't. he isn't a Red hood clone. Do you even read these comics or are you just repeating the same assumptions and comments over and over?

assumptions fudge assumptions really so before Teen titans second team that throw away Damian characteristic and development did he act like less point something in rebirth don't date say it assumptions is f.. Clear Also that red hood now not when first appeared get Why I am make fun of it now

Also you can keep being that event but as it  over with by december and we probably know what actually going to happen to Damian as character I just continue point issue with that use that cover.



 also try throw back by comment at me work better if you actually understand Damian and not  idea that this how  you what Damian to be written or some hack job writer understand of character 


Batman and Robin is a Spin off.

Are old move the goalposts never old .. Never old.

Supersons was a mediocre YA title and it book that can aimed toward preteen and young teen that don't fit dark brood nurture of d.c.
And my original point super son which by the way is Graphic novels to understand and fit into YA titles so don't push it 

Yes Beyond Damian is a 30+ Red hood clone. Maybe writers will be more willing to write a 38 yr old Red Hood clone cos if not then Damian fans are screwed lol.

Maybe you are willing misunderstood my point when I say that like red clone yes may Beyond Damian but remove Damian past development to make happened just mean I get make funny of it  I would with any other characters that like if this happen or you telling me that comic book writer are not good enough to be judge by same standards as like writers in other media.. huh Interesting

also if that all going comment with why comment here ether then .


I can tell you that the Dynamic duo  hasn't been a thing for decades now and they are not about to make a return in 2021.

I make baseless assumptions yet you take example I use to mean that I what the Dynamic duo . ether your   misunderstood my point  by choose or I not my point clear enough   I can't tell which is more annoy  and to say you not try make baseless assumptions . Okay then explain why  Batman and tec are the main Batman titles when I point out. Damian had appeared and Damian will   appear in detective comics.




> Talia's mother is Chinese. I can't quite recall the issue but I have read a story with her and she is of Chinese descent
> 
> It wasn't for 5G since the instagram post made it very clear. It was for him to learn and deal with the consequences. That has nothing to do with 5G
> 
> Not to mention that all these about 5G are just speculation. We don't know the plans but we do they pre-planned to take Robin from Damian and how many times has Tim offered to come back and help?
> 
> Destroying a popular minority character is a great way to get readers on board and backing a less popular minority character.
> 
> There's no evidence 5G had anything to do with what they did to Damian but that's all besides the point.
> ...


It wasn't for 5G since the instagram post made 

That you word and no actually proof so useless and the fact has was for him to learn and deal with the consequences.  Show you try shield your argument for people that know teen titans handling of Damian was out character with past development. Just say  you don't understand Damian as character.

Also learn and deal with the consequences. Vogue to all but useless and don't make up teen titans all but mucking Damian as character.

Not to mention that all these about 5G are just speculation. We don't know the plans but we do they pre-planned to take Robin from Damian and how many times has Tim offered to come back and help?

No. The point that writer had word from editor to take Robin  were for 5G sill is proven and right Tim looking to be red robin So you wish muck up.Damian he removed and Tim become robin look not be happening  and Tim offer to come to help us not good enough reason to muck Damian or as you put for the writer to Destroy Damian  as character 


Destroying a popular minority character is a great way to get readers on board and backing a less popular minority character.

Wow it a least you honest nor mean much but it something i guess So I now I can say every opinion you had or comment you made during the teen titans run about Damian is moot good job.


There's no evidence 5G had anything to do with what they did to Damian but that's all besides the point
Actually it make they choose to not follow  with Destroying a popular minority character i.e. Damian at least have reason thought dc pull back from that plan at least show they have some level of working brains left.

----------


## dietrich

> Red Hood uses no lethal rounds, doesn't kill and agreed to play by batman's rules. Damian killed Brother Blood and isn't playing by Batman's rules. red hood is currently part of the batfamily. Damian isn't. he isn't a Red hood clone. Do you even read these comics or are you just repeating the same assumptions and comments over and over?
> 
> assumptions fudge assumptions really so before Teen titans second team that throw away Damian characteristic and development did he act like less point something in rebirth don't date say it assumptions is f.. Clear Also that red hood now not when first appeared get Why I am make fun of it now
> 
> Also you can keep being that event but as it  over with by december and we probably know what actually going to happen to Damian as character I just continue point issue with that use that cover.
> 
> 
> 
>  also try throw back by comment at me work better if you actually understand Damian and not  idea that this how  you what Damian to be written or some hack job writer understand of character 
> ...


2 appearances in Tec doesn't make that a title with Damian. B&R is a spin off and a temp one at that.


However the only point that is relevant is that even before rebirth and before Glass Damian wasn't a sidekick for Batman.

Duke and Tim were more with Batman than Damian was. so your whole argument is moot matey

----------


## Light of Justice

> I honestly don't want another Team book. i'd love a Damian solo by Tom Taylor or Langzing.
> 
> Damian needs fixing and healing. I want the focus on him and no one else


Completely agree. I never really like Damian on Teen Titans (3 version of them) but this time I had enough with Damian on team, especially with his current state. Just give him solo or duo. 
From latest solicits looks like Tomasi will drive him toward Batman and Robin again.

----------


## Restingvoice

> I honestly don't want another Team book. i'd love a Damian solo by Tom Taylor or Langzing.
> 
> Damian needs fixing and healing. I want the focus on him and no one else


A road trip solo title, or rather, flying around with Goliath, searching for himself. I can dig that.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Oh, I forgot she has a super name. 
> 
> Beacon should meet Signal.


I often see fans want Kathy on Damian's TT with Maya and Jon but can't understand why. Didn't Kathy strangle him when he accused her for something which was proven to be correct? And CMIIW it's the only time Damian and Kathy interacted (Robzarro doesn't count). Not that I hate her, but Damian is not as forgiving as Jon, it will be hard for him to trust her.
Of course there's possibility that Jon and Maya will vouch for her, just like Wallace vouched for Roundhouse

----------


## Restingvoice

> I often see fans want Kathy on Damian's TT with Maya and Jon but can't understand why. Didn't Kathy strangle him when he accused her for something which was proven to be correct? And CMIIW it's the only time Damian and Kathy interacted (Robzarro doesn't count). Not that I hate her, but Damian is not as forgiving as Jon, it will be hard for him to trust her.
> Of course there's possibility that Jon and Maya will vouch for her, just like Wallace vouched for Roundhouse


I honestly remember nothing about Kathy except the milk cow incident, even then, I forgot what the milk did. Suppress Jon's powers so he won't get detected by Manchester Black?

Yea whatever suspicion Damian had I trust Jon to smooth things over

----------


## Eckri

Damian going for a solo soul searching road trip is a must after the "I QUIT ROBIN" event.
Get him to cool down, and grow.

Though, if eventually Damian is going to be in a team book. 
They can't have him as a leader. 

I'd like the set-up of that cancelled Young Justice book. 

TEAM.jpg

lhttps://nickspencerly.tumblr.com/pos...ublished-cover

Get someone like Supergirl to be team lead.
While Damian gets to learn to play together as a team.
And heck, if Jon isn't there to keep Damian in touch. There's always Maya, and maybe Irey West considering the cancelled story arc of the team ended with Irey pulling Damian into the dance floor. Guess that's the second speedster to be a foil to Damian being broody.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> Damian going for a solo soul searching road trip is a must after the "I QUIT ROBIN" event.
> Get him to cool down, and grow.
> 
> Though, if eventually Damian is going to be in a team book. 
> They can't have him as a leader. 
> 
> I'd like the set-up of that cancelled Young Justice book. 
> 
> TEAM.jpg
> ...



Supergirl leading a teen team now?

----------


## Eckri

> Supergirl leading a teen team now?


She was supposed to lead a team, the image was taken from a Young Justice cover. 
Didn't happen because the New 52 was right around the corner.

----------


## Morgoth

Damn, it is a pity that the idea was abandoned.
I hope they will come to something similar in the future.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Damian going for a solo soul searching road trip is a must after the "I QUIT ROBIN" event.
> Get him to cool down, and grow.
> 
> Though, if eventually Damian is going to be in a team book. 
> They can't have him as a leader. 
> 
> I'd like the set-up of that cancelled Young Justice book. 
> 
> Attachment 100823
> ...


Who's the boy on back with googles?

----------


## Eckri

> Who's the boy on back with googles?


Static Shock

----------


## Blue22

> Who's the boy on back with googles?


That's Static.

EDIT: Someone beat me to it lol




> I often see fans want Kathy on Damian's TT with Maya and Jon but can't understand why. Didn't Kathy strangle him when he accused her for something which was proven to be correct? And CMIIW it's the only time Damian and Kathy interacted (Robzarro doesn't count). Not that I hate her, but Damian is not as forgiving as Jon, it will be hard for him to trust her.
> Of course there's possibility that Jon and Maya will vouch for her, just like Wallace vouched for Roundhouse


Kathy gets put with them a lot because she's essentially the Maya to Jon's Damian. That and she and Maya are kinda friends now since they'e off in limbo together, babysitting the Bizarro Super Sons. And they'll probably be there for a while since Tomasi and Gleason seem to be the only ones who care about those two.

I don't really have any opinion about Kathy. And I'm fine with her not coming back. But this is pretty sad for Maya. I like her, and I really wish she'd been around for all the shit Damian's been going through these past few years.

If they did have to interact again, I'm pretty sure at this point Damian wouldn't necessarily freak out or anything, given the circumstances. But yeah, having Jon and Maya vouching for her definitely helps.

----------


## Light of Justice

Today is the maybe last time for us to see Batman Beyond version of Damian Demon Head. There's some aspect that I don't like about him (like *spoilers:*
Damian devoted to Ra's, fight for Ra's honor? and Goliath is his only friend. Jurgens, what did you do with Titus, Alfred, Wiggles and Bat-Cow?
*end of spoilers*) but still, I somewhat like him and love his Regal Al-Ghul design. I will miss it.

Hope that it will not get forgotten, but from the amount of (really good) Damian Demon Head fanarts from fans, looks like that costume makes big impact on fandom, like his Batman666 costume.

----------


## Blue22

Loyalty to Ra's aside, I did like Beyond Damian. And his design is definitely A LOT better than the 666 costume (though I seem to be only one who hates that one lol)

----------


## Light of Justice

> Loyalty to Ra's aside, I did like Beyond Damian. And his design is definitely A LOT better than the 666 costume (though I seem to be only one who hates that one lol)


Don't worry, I've met plenty of fans who dislike it too. Their main reason is the high collar reminds them of Discowing Nightwing but thankfully I've missed Dick's disco dark days so I have no prejudice about that collar. On the other hand, I have plenty prejudice for outside panty costume so I can't help but love his trench coat costume more than Batman original costume which he used on DCeased. I always love costume who has many layers more than tight bodysuit, even though I know that it will hinder their movement  :Wink: 

Speaking about DCeased, DCeased HAWE today issue is mediocre issue, but interestingly *spoilers:*
 looks like Tom Taylor will push Damian/Cassie ship on DCeased HAWE. 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> Don't worry, I've met plenty of fans who dislike it too. Their main reason is the high collar reminds them of Discowing Nightwing but thankfully I've missed Dick's disco dark days so I have no prejudice about that collar. On the other hand, I have plenty prejudice for outside panty costume so I can't help but love his trench coat costume more than Batman original costume which he used on DCeased. I always love costume who has many layers more than tight bodysuit, even though I know that it will hinder their movement 
> 
> Speaking about DCeased, DCeased HAWE today issue is mediocre issue, but interestingly *spoilers:*
>  looks like Tom Taylor will push Damian/Cassie ship on DCeased HAWE. 
> *end of spoilers*



They pick the weirdest pairings.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> Loyalty to Ra's aside, I did like Beyond Damian. And his design is definitely A LOT better than the 666 costume (though I seem to be only one who hates that one lol)



I liked Beyond Damian before the daddy issues came into play.

----------


## sifighter

> They pick the weirdest pairings.


I mean I can kind of believe Cassie and Damian, its an elseworld and an apocalypse tends to make for strange romances. Plus its just a different iteration of the WonderBat romance.

Besides Taylor loves making odd pairings work, remember Killer Croc and Orca from Injustice 2.

----------


## Blue22

It's not something I'd ever wanna see in the main universe. But in this story, I'm perfectly fine with it for the time being.

----------


## Konja7

New Mcfarlane DC Multiverse Damian Wayne Robin figure:

iv4u440m7ro51.jpg

----------


## Fergus

> New Mcfarlane DC Multiverse Damian Wayne Robin figure:
> 
> iv4u440m7ro51.jpg


 I was just about to post this here  :Smile:

----------


## Fergus

I'm liking Damian and Cassie just like I liked Damian and Kara and Damian and Raven.

They are not relationships I would ever imagine but they worked.

Damian and Kara for me is now one of DC's best romances

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> I wouldn't exactly call it lazy. I can see the parallels between Leo and Dick, Tim and Donnie, and Jason and Raph. At least enough to get why fans constantly make the comparisons. it only falls apart when you add Damian and Mikey into the mix. The only thing they have in common is that they're the youngest brothers. Aside from that Damian is much closer to Raphael. Then again, Damian and Jason are also more alike than I'm sure either of them would care to admit.


Damian is a Raph. Jason is mikey, Jason can be carefree and slightly playful sometimes. So mikey isn't too farfetched.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> I'm liking Damian and Cassie just like I liked Damian and Kara and Damian and Raven.
> 
> They are not relationships I would ever imagine but they worked.
> 
> Damian and Kara for me is now one of DC's best romances



I like Damian and characters that aren't more mature than him.

----------


## Fergus

> I like Damian and characters that aren't more mature than him.


Then you must dislike 99% of Damian stories since Jon, Jason and Beast boy are the only three characters less mature than Damian.

Or do you mean Romantically ?
Injustice2 Damian is more mature than Kara and acts as a mentor of sorts. Their pairing was a surprise but a very welcome one.

----------


## Fergus

> Damian is a Raph. Jason is mikey, Jason can be carefree and slightly playful sometimes. So mikey isn't too farfetched.


Yeah Damian is a Raph not a Mickey. Jason is a Mickey. he is the joker of the bunch

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> Then you must dislike 99% of Damian stories since Jon, Jason and Beast boy are the only three characters less mature than Damian.
> 
> Or do you mean Romantically ?
> Injustice2 Damian is more mature than Kara and acts as a mentor of sorts. Their pairing was a surprise but a very welcome one.



I mean romantically

----------


## Restingvoice

Wait how old is Damian and Cassie in DCeased 

because if they're 13 and 15... Tim and Cassie only have about 1 year age difference when they started Young Justice in the 90s

These select aging is doing things on my brain

----------


## Aahz

> Yeah Damian is a Raph not a Mickey. Jason is a Mickey. he is the joker of the bunch


Isn't that Dick?

----------


## Fergus

> Isn't that Dick?


Dick was Jokey as a kid but these days Jason is the comic relief Robin amongst the bunch.

----------


## Fergus

> Wait how old is Damian and Cassie in DCeased 
> 
> because if they're 13 and 15... Tim and Cassie only have about 1 year age difference when they started Young Justice in the 90s
> 
> These select aging is doing things on my brain


We don't know their ages but I'd say they are older than 13 and 15

----------


## CPSparkles

> Completely agree. I never really like Damian on Teen Titans (3 version of them) but this time I had enough with Damian on team, especially with his current state. Just give him solo or duo. 
> From latest solicits looks like Tomasi will drive him toward Batman and Robin again.


Yeah I suspect we'll get a type of Born to kill then they make up and it's back to business as usual. I wish Bruce to become more hands on but I know that's not likely to happen.

I just want Damian back to heroics and no more angst for a while

----------


## CPSparkles

> New Mcfarlane DC Multiverse Damian Wayne Robin figure:
> 
> Attachment 100860


This is very well rendered. I want it

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/1ion_nion



https://twitter.com/spoilednoodels



https://twitter.com/potato_pinetree

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/vivi___iviv


Batman Day with the Dick and Damian




Bruce, Dick and Damian



https://twitter.com/dedene15

----------


## CPSparkles

Proximitycomic by https://twitter.com/sonialiaoart

----------


## CPSparkles

https://t.co/FCArn2WF1d?amp=1

----------


## CPSparkles

Another Batman day Promo from Dc Nation



DC Kids Training with batman's Son and Sidekick Damian Wayne [AKA Robin]




Nice to see Damian on content for young consumers

----------


## Fergus

> Another Batman day Promo from Dc Nation
> 
> 
> 
> DC Kids Training with batman's Son and Sidekick Damian Wayne [AKA Robin]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice to see Damian on content for young consumers


Well it looks like the plans to take Robin from Damian failed yet again.

Hopefully this will be last time. The poor kid hasn't had a chance to be Robin without others snapping at his heels and writers trying to undermine him. As soon as Morrison left Batman the vultures have been at the door. Enough now. Let Damian enjoy what Dick, Jason and Tim before had. A solo tenure as Robin

----------


## the1&onlyE.

At this point I'm just hoping for a good title with Damian in 2021, my god. We need it so much!

Do you guys think they will announce the new titles next month, or will they try to hold the news a little bit?

----------


## Jackalope89

> At this point I'm just hoping for a good title with Damian in 2021, my god. We need it so much!
> 
> Do you guys think they will announce the new titles next month, or will they try to hold the news a little bit?


"Rise of the Super Kids! After Damian Wayne finds out that the "Jon" that had been parading around for several months was an imposter, he immediately began his rescue operation of Jon from Earth 3. But for as capable as he is, even he will need help..."

"Featuring; Damian Wayne! Jon Kent! Irey and Jai West! Maya Ducard! Kathy Branden! Arthur Curry Junior! And a mysterious girl wearing Amazonian armor!?"

Well, that's my headcanon.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> The suit drove him mad and when he got better and returned Bruce had replaced him.


I know you wrote many day ago, But I need to know about this, I don't read Batman Beyonds because Damian in League is too sad for me, but what "the suit drove him mad" means? What happened?

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> At this point I'm just hoping for a good title with Damian in 2021, my god. We need it so much!
> 
> Do you guys think they will announce the new titles next month, or will they try to hold the news a little bit?


If this will happen, I think they would wait all Damian fanbase be preeettyyy upset and hold hold hold and, so, announce a new title.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> "Rise of the Super Kids! After Damian Wayne finds out that the "Jon" that had been parading around for several months was an imposter, he immediately began his rescue operation of Jon from Earth 3. But for as capable as he is, even he will need help..."
> 
> "Featuring; Damian Wayne! Jon Kent! Irey and Jai West! Maya Ducard! Kathy Branden! Arthur Curry Junior! And a mysterious girl wearing Amazonian armor!?"
> 
> Well, that's my headcanon.


I must be the only person that liked Jon being 17, he is still sweet and DamiJon keept a good dynamic in this way, I miss 10 years Jon, but I don't hated this story

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Another Batman day Promo from Dc Nation
> 
> 
> 
> DC Kids Training with batman's Son and Sidekick Damian Wayne [AKA Robin]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice to see Damian on content for young consumers


Red Hood Fan Series season 3 will be realease this week, Jason and Damian are the protagonists.
It's like 8 minutes of 10 episodes by year, but we need to work with what we have    :'''''')
It is low money product, but Damian and Jason are pretty well done.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I must be the only person that liked Jon being 17, he is still sweet and DamiJon keept a good dynamic in this way, I miss 10 years Jon, but I don't hated this story


The only time fake Jon has been given any character is when he pops up in another book that Bendis doesn't write. Even then, its meh.

But yeah. The age-up is one of the most unpopular things about Bendis' run (along with his characterization of everyone outside of Clark). So you probably are one of a few that like it.

----------


## Morgoth

> At this point I'm just hoping for a good title with Damian in 2021, my god. We need it so much!
> 
> Do you guys think they will announce the new titles next month, or will they try to hold the news a little bit?


He is unlikely to get a solo, even when things were going better, his series was closed, and now, in their current situation, he is unlikely to receive a personal title. He will either be with Bruce, or some Batfamily oriented title, or Super Sons / Titans / some other team.
They can announce something before solicits, but most of the information is likely to come from solicits.

----------


## Digifiend

> We have 2 Wondergirls: Donna Troy and Cassandra Sandsmark.
> 
> Donna cannot seem to move beyond this identity. Cassie is still newish.


Newish? She's been around since the mid 90s - only a few years less than Conner and Tim, who both already have successors as Superboy and Robin.

Also, Donna hasn't been Wonder Girl since the late 80s. She's either Troia or doesn't bother with a codename at all. A Titans issue had a character call her Wonder Woman, and Diana's comic had the two collectively called Wonder Women, so she's basically a second Wonder Woman nowadays but doesn't actively use the codename.

----------


## Fergus

> He is unlikely to get a solo, even when things were going better, his series was closed, and now, in their current situation, he is unlikely to receive a personal title. He will either be with Bruce, or some Batfamily oriented title, or Super Sons / Titans / some other team.
> They can announce something before solicits, but most of the information is likely to come from solicits.


With AT&T calling the shots I think outside media and other market demands will play a big part in determining who gets priority.

Characters like Jason will get a title since he is in demand. Dick as well as Babs. Damian might do [that last movie made over 4 million in 9 weeks]

I hope he gets a solo too though it's more likely going to be a Supersons book. Which is also welcome so long as it's not written by Pearson

----------


## Restingvoice

> I know you wrote many day ago, But I need to know about this, I don't read Batman Beyonds because Damian in League is too sad for me, but what "the suit drove him mad" means? What happened?


Sounds like before Terry came long, Damian, who's closer and available, tried a prototype Batman Beyond suit and it drove him mad... somehow... 

confirmation?




> Another Batman day Promo from Dc Nation
> 
> 
> 
> DC Kids Training with batman's Son and Sidekick Damian Wayne [AKA Robin]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice to see Damian on content for young consumers


owo that kid Jett looks like David Mazouz

----------


## Fergus

> Sounds like before Terry came long, Damian, who's closer and available, tried a prototype Batman Beyond suit and it drove him mad... somehow... 
> 
> confirmation?


Yes.

Damian spent too long in the suit destroying the LOA but the Suit's took him over [like we saw it do to Terry in Rise of The Demon]

He comes back and finds out that Bruce hadn't looked for him so he goes back to the LOA

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Yes.
> 
> Damian spent too long in the suit destroying the LOA but the Suit's took him over [like we saw it do to Terry in Rise of The Demon]
> 
> He comes back and finds out that Bruce hadn't looked for him so he goes back to the LOA


<\3 worst dad ever. But why didn't Bruce looked for him?
*so this future suit have some kind of AI?
Damian is like 35 in Batman Beyond? He just had Goliath by his side all this years?

----------


## Jman27

> The only time fake Jon has been given any character is when he pops up in another book that Bendis doesn't write. Even then, its meh.
> 
> But yeah. The age-up is one of the most unpopular things about Bendis' run (along with his characterization of everyone outside of Clark). So you probably are one of a few that like it.


what jon being age 17 is fake?

----------


## Morgoth

> what jon being age 17 is fake?


They just don't like this version, that's why they're calling him like that.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> They just don't like this version, that's why they're calling him like that.


But I got why they age up Jon, and why people want it to be fake, I have many canon negations too XP like "Damian will show up in the game even it's not announced ", "Damian will not disappears, even looks like he will" "Damian will not go back do LoA, even if Batman Beyond shows this", I am "believing" that Batman Beyond ending is a signal that this future is not real anymore?
Also, I like to believe JayTemis will not end, like, this separation will be 3 months things and they will become together again: negation phase.

----------


## Morgoth

I don't even get why someone thinks that it's a canon future.
Marvel and DC comics don't have an exact future, no matter what anyone says, all that is shown is a variety of scenarios. In Bethlehem, for example, it was Damian who raised and trained Terry, for example, and this future was also regarded as possible.

----------


## Fergus

> I don't even get why someone thinks that it's a canon future.
> Marvel and DC comics don't have an exact future, no matter what anyone says, all that is shown is a variety of scenarios. In Bethlehem, for example, it was Damian who raised and trained Terry, for example, and this future was also regarded as possible.


The Guide to the Multiverse lists it as the main DcU earth running years in the future so it is the canon future according to DC.

Stuff like batman 666, ToT, Batman Annual etc and all other futures are all possible futures but none of them is as developed as Beyond and none are classified by DC as the future of the main DC universe.

It's impossible to set the future of DC but for now Beyond is the recognised next best time

----------


## Fergus

> But I got why they age up Jon, and why people want it to be fake, I have many canon negations too XP like "Damian will show up in the game even it's not announced ", "Damian will not disappears, even looks like he will" "Damian will not go back do LoA, even if Batman Beyond shows this", I am "believing" that Batman Beyond ending is a signal that this future is not real anymore?
> Also, I like to believe JayTemis will not end, like, this separation will be 3 months things and they will become together again: negation phase.


Batman beyond ending doesn't signal that future isn't real just like YJ ending doesn't mean that those characters aren't real anymore.

The book is simply ending. The world remains until it's retconed or a new series begins

However you are free to accept whichever part of canon you like and reject the parts you don't. that's why head canon's are so popular.

----------


## Tsukiakari1203

Damian deserves his friends back! Bring back Suren, Maps, Maya, Nell, Colin, Kathy, Carrie, Steph, and Jon!

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Batman beyond ending doesn't signal that future isn't real just like YJ ending doesn't mean that those characters aren't real anymore.
> 
> The book is simply ending. The world remains until it's retconed or a new series begins
> 
> However you are free to accept whichever part of canon you like and reject the parts you don't. that's why head canon's are so popular.


Exactly (=u=)/ if it's 99% defined in canon, I will get this 1% and fill with my imagination and my heart X'''''D (each tear is a tear).

----------


## Light of Justice

> Damian deserves his friends back! Bring back Suren, Maps, Maya, Nell, Colin, Kathy, Carrie, Steph, and Jon!


Carrie? Does Carrie and Damian ever interact? 
And who is Nell?

----------


## Restingvoice

> Carrie? Do Carrie and Damian ever interact? 
> And who is Nell?


New 52 Carrie is Damian's theater tutor that Bruce found out after he died, but I heard Frank Miller doesn't allow her use outside his universe so that's canceled
Nell Little is an elementary schooler that befriended Damian when he's going undercover while working with Batgirl Stephanie

----------


## Light of Justice

> New 52 Carrie is Damian's theater tutor that Bruce found out after he died, but I heard Frank Miller doesn't allow her use outside his universe so that's canceled
> Nell Little is an elementary schooler that befriended Damian when he's going undercover while working with Batgirl Stephanie


Ah right, I forgot Carrie had been Damian's acting tutor and Titus's babysitter.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I really liked this story about Damian's secret theater classes... add much for the character.
Sad was totally forget after Damian comes back.
The Damian and Stephanie chapter was so nice too, when he says his name is "Bruce" and the inflatable bounce house part.
I miss Damian being less than 13...

----------


## Grandmaster_J

> I miss Damian being less than 13...


Well he's certainly still under 5 feet and tiny so you still have that to hold on to.

----------


## sifighter

I’m just going to leave this here

22D634D2-80A1-4DC7-A5CE-AE0BCA9081D9.jpg

----------


## Blue22

> Well he's certainly still under 5 feet and tiny so you still have that to hold on to.


Yeah there's really been no big difference between 10 year old Damian and 13 year old Damian. At least not a big enough difference for me to say I want him to be 10 again. In both appearance and (arguably) personality he's still pretty much the same.

----------


## Konja7

> Yeah there's really been no big difference between 10 year old Damian and 13 year old Damian. At least not a big enough difference for me to say I want him to be 10 again. In both appearance and (arguably) personality he's still pretty much the same.


That's exactly why Damian should be 10 again.

There isn't a good reason why Damian is 13 years old apart from being part of the Teen Titans.

----------


## Blue22

> There isn't a good reason why Damian is 13 years old apart from being part of the Teen Titans.


Which still doesnt make a lot of sense since he was also a Teen Titan back when he was 10. And then tried to put Jon on the team in Percy's run.

There really wasnt much of a point in aging him up. But since he's more or less the same anyway I dont think there's much of a point in taking him back to 10 either. Just keep him where he's at and hopefully he hits puberty in the next time skip xD

(Though I've always kinda suspected the reason he hasn't grown much is because of the time he'd spent dead. That was like a year right? So he's technically 13 but could physically still be 12)

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Well he's certainly still under 5 feet and tiny so you still have that to hold on to.


Lol XD but still not the same, but not just because his baby face, also because his life situation...

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Which still doesnt make a lot of sense since he was also a Teen Titan back when he was 10. And then tried to put Jon on the team in Percy's run.
> 
> There really wasnt much of a point in aging him up. But since he's more or less the same anyway I dont think there's much of a point in taking him back to 10 either. Just keep him where he's at and hopefully he hits puberty in the next time skip xD
> 
> (Though I've always kinda suspected the reason he hasn't grown much is because of the time he'd spent dead. That was like a year right? So he's technically 13 but could physically still be 12)


When was Damian a TT before 13?
I think about this too... he could not grow up being dead, I also believe he came back with a new body (without hurts and scars).

Also Damian can be short for his age and he doesn't get sleep how much he should, because when he was 10 everybody already said he looks younger.

----------


## Restingvoice

> When was Damian a TT before 13?
> I think about this too... he could not grow up being dead, I also believe he came back with a new body (without hurts and scars).
> 
> Also Damian can be short for his age and he doesn't get sleep how much he should, because when he was 10 everybody already said he looks younger.


Before Flashpoint. Batman Dick gave Damian to Teen Titans Kon, Cassie, Gar, and Bart because he feels Damian needs friends. Damian demands to be the leader because he heard Robin is always the leader. Then Tim came in. Hilarity ensues.
Eventually, Damian concludes that Teen Titans already have a Robin and they prefer Tim anyway, and he already has a friend (Dick)

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Still about them heigh, for the size differences make senses, Damian need to be really short for his age, and Jon need to be really tall for his age, but he has the same height than his classmates, so Damian, being 13 would need to he shorter than a average 10 years old boy.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Before Flashpoint. Batman Dick gave Damian to Teen Titans Kon, Cassie, Gar, and Bart because he feels Damian needs friends. Damian demands to be the leader because he heard Robin is always the leader. Then Tim came in. Hilarity ensues.
> Eventually, Damian concludes that Teen Titans already have a Robin and they prefer Tim anyway, and he already has a friend (Dick)


I remember this... soo Damian, I thought kind sad :/
But I didn't feel this was like he really being a TT, dick would not let him there, and was more like a test class, seeing without compromise?
I just thought about this now, terrible idea sending a 10 years old child for make friends with +15 teenagers. Not good, Dick.

----------


## adrikito

> Damian deserves his friends back! Bring back Suren, Maps, Maya, Steph


I miss them too..

Sorry. I don´t know enough about Suren to add him.. And Carrie? She is not that girl who was Robin in THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS?

Not interested in the others to add them.




> I’m just going to leave this here
> 
> Attachment 100981


Thanks.. I like see Steph as Robin again and with Damian.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I miss them too..
> 
> Sorry. I don´t know enough about Suren to add him.. And Carrie? She is not that girl who was Robin in THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS?
> 
> Not interested in the others to add them.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks.. I like see Steph as Robin again and with Damian.


Carrie had a brief role in New52 as Damian's acting partner or something. But then they had to stop using her because the author of DKR wanted her to be exclusive to his world only.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> Yeah there's really been no big difference between 10 year old Damian and 13 year old Damian. At least not a big enough difference for me to say I want him to be 10 again. In both appearance and (arguably) personality he's still pretty much the same.



Damian looks the same age as Jon in supersons.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> <\3 worst dad ever. But why didn't Bruce looked for him?
> *so this future suit have some kind of AI?
> Damian is like 35 in Batman Beyond? He just had Goliath by his side all this years?


Nobody knows or they didn't explain it?

----------


## Light of Justice

> Nobody knows or they didn't explain it?


They didn't explain it. There's Jon on Batman Beyond but he and Damian has no interaction.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> They didn't explain it. There's Jon on Batman Beyond but he and Damian has no interaction.


It's give me a bad feeling about next comics.

----------


## CPSparkles

Otto Schmidt draws the Batfam from Earth 11



https://twitter.com/OttoSchmidt72

I really love this artist and wish he drew more Damian. Sadly due to the hyper mature tone of his work he's only ever drawn Damian in Gotham Resistance.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Nobody knows or they didn't explain it?


Bruce did look but not very well.

The suit was faulty since it did the same to Terry.

Bruce isn't the only one at fault since Damian was a grown man so why didn't he confront Bruce rather than throwing  a tantrum and hiding around corner's peeping at people.

----------


## CPSparkles

> It's give me a bad feeling about next comics.


Why? 

beyond is Terry's world and always have been. Jon is just a recent addition to comics. Before Jon Damian was with Conner. The Superman of beyond. The SuperSons aren't joined at the hip nor should they.

Bruce and Clark have an even stronger history and friendship but no one ever asks where is Clark in Bruce's world.

It kinda bug's me that Damian is now inexplicably tied to Jon Kent for some reason despite Damian thriving for a Decade before Jon.

Speaking of the Supersons, DCeased has gotten to no 5 on the Book Authority's Best Science Fiction Books of all Time. Making it higher than titles like Lord of the Ring's.

https://twitter.com/bookauthority

The last issue of Dead Planet also went to 4th Printing along with Tom's other Title Secret 7.

----------


## CPSparkles

Damian and Raven



https://twitter.com/NiahtiArt





https://twitter.com/regulus_comic

----------


## CPSparkles

So shout to the Damian Cosplayer's.

The DC fandome Cosplay competition, 2 Damian Cosplayer's made it to the Finals.

Katana From Japan and Keenan from the USA.



Keenan from the USA won. Congratulations.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1308172598191112193

Video of all the Winners.

I prefer Katana's to be honest

----------


## CPSparkles

Did anyone else notice that Damian's Gauntlet's has Goliath on it?



I can't believe they cancelled this comic. I loved it. Jurgen's was killing it.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

This week Damian made cameos in Injustice: Year Zero and in the Batman/Superman annual. But what actually surprised me is that he is mentioned in the Bane/Joker story in The Joker War Zone, and
*spoilers:*
Basically Joker is mad at Bane because he killed Alfred in front of Robin, not Batman lol. But what actually caught my attention is that DC is actually really acknowledging Damian's trauma, and not pretending it didn't happen. Really hope to see more of it in Detective Comics!
*end of spoilers*

----------


## CPSparkles

https://www.cbr.com/damian-wayne-def...ans-evil-path/

What a joke article.

I never knew the TT were afraid of Damian [most of them should be more powerful than him] Plus Damian physically superior to Slade? Give me a break.

I quit this run about the time when they went to hell so wasn't aware that Damian did indeed kill Brother Blood. 

What about KGBeast? Did he kill him too?

----------


## CPSparkles

> This week Damian made cameos in Injustice: Year Zero and in the Batman/Superman annual. But what actually surprised me is that he is mentioned in the Bane/Joker story in The Joker War Zone, and
> *spoilers:*
> Basically Joker is mad at Bane because he killed Alfred in front of Robin, not Batman lol. But what actually caught my attention is that DC is actually really acknowledging Damian's trauma, and not pretending it didn't happen. Really hope to see more of it in Detective Comics!
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
 I too think it's funny that the Joker is so pissed at Bane for such a trivial thing. Not for making him one of his minions but for wasting such a death on Damian.

Though to be honest I think Joker over estimate's how much Bruce care's for Alfred. I mean Bruce got Alfred killed. he wilfully endangered Alfred and everyone in Gotham or do they think we all forgot about the fact that City of Bane was Bruce's fault 
*end of spoilers*

Abernathy clearly didn't care for King's run on Batman. Criticising what Batman had become and his action's every chance he get's.

I hope they do address Damian's trauma well but we saw Alfred RIP.
I trust Tomasi but Tynion on the other hand........ well i strongly suspect that he had something to do with Damian's recently character destruction and the attempt to wrestle Robin away from him.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> *spoilers:*
>  I too think it's funny that the Joker is so pissed at Bane for such a trivial thing. Not for making him one of his minions but for wasting such a death on Damian.
> 
> Though to be honest I think Joker over estimate's how much Bruce care's for Alfred. I mean Bruce got Alfred killed. he wilfully endangered Alfred and everyone in Gotham or do they think we all forgot about the fact that City of Bane was Bruce's fault 
> *end of spoilers*
> 
> Abernathy clearly didn't care for King's run on Batman. Criticising what Batman had become and his action's every chance he get's.
> 
> I hope they do address Damian's trauma well but we saw Alfred RIP.
> I trust Tomasi but Tynion on the other hand........ well i strongly suspect that he had something to do with Damian's recently character destruction and the attempt to wrestle Robin away from him.


Listen, I am in no way a Tynion fan, but I have to defend him this time. I really don't think this is his fault, because, if you remember, Damian was losing Robin because of 5G and Tynion on Batman was just a fill in after King. In fact, I read that Joker War would be the last event before 5G started, so we will see what is Tynion's fault or not based on what happens next lol. 

And I also think is very funny the way everyone is dragging King's run, that's what I like to see. 

Anyway, Tec's coming, finally, and we will see how things play out. But the fact is they have been addressing Damian's trauma until now, so I really hope they just don't drop it suddenly. I trust Tomasi with this one!!

----------


## king81992

> https://www.cbr.com/damian-wayne-def...ans-evil-path/
> 
> What a joke article.
> 
> I never knew the TT were afraid of Damian [most of them should be more powerful than him] Plus Damian physically superior to Slade? Give me a break.
> 
> I quit this run about the time when they went to hell so wasn't aware that Damian did indeed kill Brother Blood. 
> 
> What about KGBeast? Did he kill him too?


Whoever wrote the article doesn't read comics, except for Roundhouse, the other TT were willing to go along with Damian's brainwashing plan until they suddenly remembered they were supposed to be good guys.

Damian didn't kill KGBeast because Batman and the TT interfered.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Listen, I am in no way a Tynion fan, but I have to defend him this time. I really don't think this is his fault, because, if you remember, Damian was losing Robin because of 5G and Tynion on Batman was just a fill in after King. In fact, I read that Joker War would be the last event before 5G started, so we will see what is Tynion's fault or not based on what happens next lol. 
> 
> And I also think is very funny the way everyone is dragging King's run, that's what I like to see. 
> 
> Anyway, Tec's coming, finally, and we will see how things play out. But the fact is they have been addressing Damian's trauma until now, so I really hope they just don't drop it suddenly. I trust Tomasi with this one!!


Damian wasn't losing Robin due to 5G. Adam Glass specifically said that he was losing to teach him a lesson.
The Decision was made to teach him.

no where did it ever state or even hint at Damian losing Robin due to 5G. Nowhere does it even state what 5G was.

All that's was ever truly confirmed about 5G was that it wasn't what fans were speculation.

Not saying it's Tynion's fault entirely but between the few who wielded power at DC up till AT&T stepped up Damian didn't stand a chance [Snyder, Bendis and Snyder's protege Tynion]

King's run was trash but at lest he didn't alienate Damian as much as Snyder and Tynion so it's bitter sweet.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Whoever wrote the article doesn't read comics, except for Roundhouse, the other TT were willing to go along with Damian's brainwashing plan until they suddenly remembered they were supposed to be good guys.
> 
> Damian didn't kill KGBeast because Batman and the TT interfered.


I guess i'll pick up the Annual. Do you guys recommend picking up/finishing the Tt run? I stopped after the issue where we see Damian's makeshift bed in hell.

Agreed on the other TT's. Plus I never got the impression they were scared of him. Not one bit

----------


## Darkcrusade25

> I guess i'll pick up the Annual. Do you guys recommend picking up/finishing the Tt run? I stopped after the issue where we see Damian's makeshift bed in hell.
> 
> Agreed on the other TT's. Plus I never got the impression they were scared of him. Not one bit


Honestly just looks like they’re wrapping up the run in a similar manner to N52 TT so I don’t think it’s really worth post Annual.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Honestly just looks like theyre wrapping up the run in a similar manner to N52 TT so I dont think its really worth post Annual.


Thanks. What about finishing the run from the point when they went to rescue Djinn to date? Would you recommend paying to read it or should i just google the general synopsis?

I was going to get the Annual simply to read Damian quitting since i have heard good things about that one issue.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Thanks. What about finishing the run from the point when they went to rescue Djinn to date? Would you recommend paying to read it or should i just google the general synopsis?
> 
> I was going to get the Annual simply to read Damian quitting since i have heard good things about that one issue.


Do you already read Djinn war conclusion? If you haven't, my personal advise is you should just read the synopsis. That issue is just so frustrating for me.

----------


## AmiMizuno

Yea.  I mean Raven is generally with Beast Boy but it would never work. NO Batboys can date Superpower girls.

I kind of always want Damian to actually be tutelage by Dick. I mean if we are going to get a new Robin may be a slight change of Status Quotaonce in a while

----------


## CPSparkles

> Yea.  I mean Raven is generally with Beast Boy but it would never work. NO Batboys can date Superpower girls.
> 
> I kind of always want Damian to actually be tutelage by Dick. I mean if we are going to get a new Robin may be a slight change of Status Quotaonce in a while


Damian is 13. He can't be with anyone super or not.

No Damian can't be under Dick. That's already been done. What those two need right now is original stories and DC to invest in repairing their characters.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Do you already read Djinn war conclusion? If you haven't, my personal advise is you should just read the synopsis. That issue is just so frustrating for me.


No i haven't read the conclusion. I read the issue where the team learn that Damian had gone to hell and promptly abandoned the series.

Thanks for the advice. Save my money.

----------


## Jackalope89

> No i haven't read the conclusion. I read the issue where the team learn that Damian had gone to hell and promptly abandoned the series.
> 
> Thanks for the advice. Save my money.


The ending, without spoilers, was simply abrupt. It was all down hill from there.

----------


## CPSparkles

> The ending, without spoilers, was simply abrupt. It was all down hill from there.


So glad the run is ending.

I can't wait to find out what's next for Damian and the rest of the Batfamily in 2021.
not feeling very optimistic after the way they handled Dick's return.

----------


## Blue22

I'm mostly fine with the way Dick came back. Sure it was anticlimactic but at that point I was just ready for the Ric saga to be done with. I didn't care how it happened.

As for the end of Djinn's arc, that actually was pretty bad and rushed despite her storyline having the most build up, out of the three newbies. And all it really amounted to was the best character in this run leaving, and further demonizing Damian as if he's the only one in that group with dirty hands.

----------


## Morgoth

> I can't wait to find out what's next for Damian and the rest of the Batfamily in 2021.
> not feeling very optimistic after the way they handled Dick's return.


Don't know about quality, but with Abernathy as a main editor of Bat-office, probably nothing bad will happen to Damian. He is friends with Taylor and Tomasi, and he seems to like Damian himself. Plus, he's a DCeased editor. With him, most likely, he will be very quickly returned to the camp of heroes. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Tim became a Red Robin specifically on his instructions, so that Damian could be left as Robin.
By the way, they seem to continue the line of psychological trauma, in War Zone the Joker said this directly. Everything will come down to this in the end.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Don't know about quality, but with Abernathy as a main editor of Bat-office, probably nothing bad will happen to Damian. He is friends with Taylor and Tomasi, and he seems to like Damian himself. Plus, he's a DCeased editor. With him, most likely, he will be very quickly returned to the camp of heroes. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Tim became a Red Robin specifically on his instructions, so that Damian could be left as Robin.
> By the way, they seem to continue the line of psychological trauma, in War Zone the Joker said this directly. Everything will come down to this in the end.


With Daniel Cherry as the GM non of that matters. The guy has a reputation for being very hands on and doesn't go in for any of that fanboy favouritism.

The recent purge and the creation of a GM position [with a non comic guy in the position] was to eliminate the bad apples and ensure DC is run like a business.

i wouldn't count on Abernathy to protect Damian. Damian's numbers/value will determine  his faith so with that in mind I'm not worried.

I meant the bigger picture. With DC cutting down on the number of titles they put out by 20-25% and with the focus on digital and YA novels

Damian is kicking arse on the digital front with DCeased, Injustice 2 and TT but Supersons wasn't anything special.

Titles like Raven, Shadow of the batgirl, oracle, BB, harley Quinn did spectacular and are the ones being promoted. 

Of course those were written by comic fans and writers who loved/have in depth knowledge of the characters but I'm not sure that will be taken into account.

Title's like Supersons ans Gotham High weren't well received and that might affect the characters in the books. I just hope that they realise that the problem was the writers who twisted the characters into unrecognisable fakes. Ian Wayne and Bruce Wang should have been warning signing that these writers weren't suitable.

I'm just worried that the Supersons Graphic novel will affect the likelihood of him getting another YA graphic novel.


I'm glad that Damian's trauma isn't being ignored. It's a big improvement that they are actually admitting it and not just hand waving it.

Re; Robin and Red Robin. Abernathy and DC don't have final say on who Robin is. That responsibility is above their pay grade. The parent companies decide not the comics division.

The issue was whether Tim will share the role and how far some behind the scene will go to taint Damian's character in an attempt to justify Tim's return,




I will admit that Abernathy has been good for Damian. He has been a driving force behind the approval of stuff like WAHE DCeased. He also seems to prefer a kinder Bruce and a cohesive Batfam that functions as a family.

----------


## CPSparkles

Damian 3D print by Jared Frances


[IMG]https://cdnb.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/021/456/413/large/jared-france-robin3d.jpg?1571757935[/IMG]

[IMG]https://cdnb.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/021/455/683/large/jared-france-img-7811.jpg?1571756010[/IMG]


[IMG]https://cdna.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/021/455/682/large/jared-france-img-7810.jpg?1571756005[/IMG]

https://www.**********.com/artwork/Jl525z

----------


## CPSparkles

https://artbyavasan.tumblr.com




https://curb-your-dog.tumblr.com

----------


## CPSparkles

https://fanartandsketches.tumblr.com

----------


## CPSparkles

Robin, that's it, No more spending time with your brothers!

https://doc-squash.tumblr.com

----------


## CPSparkles

Why is this title being cancelled?

Fans bitch and moan about the batfamily not being a thing and how they wish for a function and normal family.

Here's a title that was delivering the best batfam and ya'all didn't support it financially. Boo!



I love this page so much!

The past few months have been bittersweet for Damian fan's

DCeased and batman beyond -Sweet

TT - Bitter

----------


## CPSparkles

A batman that sews is the best kind of batman



https://yicruz48.tumblr.com

Percious





https://artbyavasan.tumblr.com


Duke and Damian



https://tajmah.tumblr.com

----------


## CPSparkles

Batman wears eyeliner so I'm guessing so does Robin



https://v-nia15.tumblr.com


Two Bro's calling each other [Damian and Dick]





https://nicodrawings.tumblr.com

----------


## CPSparkles

https://riv2ny.tumblr.com

----------


## CPSparkles

https://lucy-roo.tumblr.com

----------


## CPSparkles

https://holycoloringzine.tumblr.com

Batsons



https://mr-doctor-felicia.tumblr.com

----------


## CPSparkles

https://wishmongers.tumblr.com



https://do-not-careissa.tumblr.com

----------


## CPSparkles

Good Days

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Why is this title being cancelled?
> 
> Fans bitch and moan about the batfamily not being a thing and how they wish for a function and normal family.
> 
> Here's a title that was delivering the best batfam and ya'all didn't support it financially. Boo!
> 
> 
> 
> I love this page so much!
> ...


I thought about this too, i don't read Batman Beyond because I think Damian's future is miserable, I just get the best parts of what you guys post here, (Same with DCeased, I will read just if this has a happy ending), but look like it is well wrote, and the art is good.
The only reason I can imagine is that DC wants to take Damian out of the universe <\3.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

One more thing, DC really could do more animated titles this year, I finally watched new Superman movie, it's a cheap production, I am ok with a no so good animation if I can get more stories...

----------


## Morgoth

Batman Beyond was finished because of relaunch, lol.



> The only reason I can imagine is that DC wants to take Damian out of the universe <\3.


They. Won't.

----------


## CPSparkles

> I thought about this too, i don't read Batman Beyond because I think Damian's future is miserable, I just get the best parts of what you guys post here, (Same with DCeased, I will read just if this has a happy ending), but look like it is well wrote, and the art is good.
> The only reason I can imagine is that DC wants to take Damian out of the universe <\3.


Batman Beyond is bigger than Damian so nope that won't be reason. More than likely they are getting a new creative team. The title was long past cancellation numbers.


I was just hoping that it'll keep going like they do with some low selling special case titles.
If they want to take Damian out of the universe then they'll just stop including him. I mean he isn't even supposed to be in that book. It's Terry's book. The only character that is required to be there is Terry. The Batman of Beyond.

----------


## CPSparkles

> One more thing, DC really could do more animated titles this year, I finally watched new Superman movie, it's a cheap production, I am ok with a no so good animation if I can get more stories...


They do have more animated films lined up. In the near future we will see a lot of new DC related programming green lit for HBO. That is the whole reason why AT&T purchased  WB. However it's got to be stuff that can compete with what Disney Plus and Netflix have on offer to entice viewers to take out a subscription.

Tom Taylor is current writing another animated show. Not sure if it's Dc's related though.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Batman Beyond is bigger than Damian so nope that won't be reason. More than likely they are getting a new creative team. The title was long past cancellation numbers.
> 
> 
> I was just hoping that it'll keep going like they do with some low selling special case titles.
> If they want to take Damian out of the universe then they'll just stop including him. I mean he isn't even supposed to be in that book. It's Terry's book. The only character that is required to be there is Terry. The Batman of Beyond.


make senses...

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> They do have more animated films lined up. In the near future we will see a lot of new DC related programming green lit for HBO. That is the whole reason why AT&T purchased  WB. However it's got to be stuff that can compete with what Disney Plus and Netflix have on offer to entice viewers to take out a subscription.
> 
> Tom Taylor is current writing another animated show. Not sure if it's Dc's related though.


I don't see so many titles of animations, being tv shows or movies, enunciated, it's very different than Disney that says in begin of the year the next 3 years planned works. I know about the live-action series, but I do prefer Animation. And there are times they announce something but don't say what season of year or year it's coming =_=/

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I forgot to comment about Damian's adorable fanarts, it's so lovely.
Also, I agree with who says Damian could have any skin collor since Bruce at Talia, but I love when he has darker skin tone and green eyes, but in same time, he with black cute eyes in Batman and Robin (2011) and in Robin: son of Batman is one of my favorites designs.



This is my prefered Damian's skin tone at now.

----------


## sifighter

Hey it’s time for more adventures of DCeased Damian as he somehow manages to sneak up on John Constantine when Constantine is the one who scared everyone with a boom tube.

https://aiptcomics.com/2020/10/02/dc...dead-planet-4/

----------


## CPSparkles

> I forgot to comment about Damian's adorable fanarts, it's so lovely.
> Also, I agree with who says Damian could have any skin collor since Bruce at Talia, but I love when he has darker skin tone and green eyes, but in same time, he with black cute eyes in Batman and Robin (2011) and in Robin: son of Batman is one of my favorites designs.
> 
> 
> 
> This is my prefered Damian's skin tone at now.


Mine too  :Smile:

----------


## CPSparkles

> Hey it’s time for more adventures of DCeased Damian as he somehow manages to sneak up on John Constantine when Constantine is the one who scared everyone with a boom tube.
> 
> https://aiptcomics.com/2020/10/02/dc...dead-planet-4/


I love so much about this.

Their banter between Damian and John
The banter between Damian and Scott
Wallace
Damian being one of the detectives
Jon looking bad ass

Tom Taylor's DCeased World is so endearing.

----------


## Astralabius

> *spoilers:*
>  I too think it's funny that the Joker is so pissed at Bane for such a trivial thing. Not for making him one of his minions but for wasting such a death on Damian.
> 
> Though to be honest I think Joker over estimate's how much Bruce care's for Alfred. I mean Bruce got Alfred killed. he wilfully endangered Alfred and everyone in Gotham or do they think we all forgot about the fact that City of Bane was Bruce's fault 
> *end of spoilers*
> 
> Abernathy clearly didn't care for King's run on Batman. Criticising what Batman had become and his action's every chance he get's.
> 
> I hope they do address Damian's trauma well but we saw Alfred RIP.
> I trust Tomasi but Tynion on the other hand........ well i strongly suspect that he had something to do with Damian's recently character destruction and the attempt to wrestle Robin away from him.


City of Bane was Bruce's fault (seriously, what was King thinking), but Bruce did try to get Alfred out of there. Alfred was supposed to escape and once he gave the signal Bruce would send in Damian to replace him as hostage. That was literally the only reason.
Alfred could have been the one to let the others into the mansion to defeat Thomas once he got the order to kill the hostage, but apparently Bruce didn't want to risk Alfred's life, so he risked Damian's instead.
Bruce is the worst under King.

----------


## Morgoth

> I trust Tomasi but Tynion on the other hand........ well i strongly suspect that he had something to do with Damian's recently character destruction and the attempt to wrestle Robin away from him.


And what does Tynion have to do with it, lol? Damian's storyline in TT began back when King ruled Batman, the decision to remove Robin's mantle from Damian was generally made when DiDio was still in power. Tynion had no power over the character, even when he started his run, it was implied that he was just a filler writer who had to bring everything to Ridley's run.
I would say more, Thompson reduced Damian's actions to psychological trauma because of Alfred just at the moment when Abernathy and Tynion gained power in the Bat-office. Before that, there were no such excuses that clearly serve to make the situation easier.
The only thing that Tynion can be suspected of is trying to make Tim Robin again.

----------


## CPSparkles

> And what does Tynion have to do with it, lol? Damian's storyline in TT began back when King ruled Batman, the decision to remove Robin's mantle from Damian was generally made when DiDio was still in power. Tynion had no power over the character, even when he started his run, it was implied that he was just a filler writer who had to bring everything to Ridley's run.
> I would say more, Thompson reduced Damian's actions to psychological trauma because of Alfred just at the moment when Abernathy and Tynion gained power in the Bat-office. Before that, there were no such excuses that clearly serve to make the situation easier.
> The only thing that Tynion can be suspected of is trying to make Tim Robin again.


1, King never ruled at DC. Snyder did. he was the one that King thanked for his Batman gig. He is the one that got Tynion all his high profile DC gig's. He is Dc's biggest money maker and he calls the shots.

2, The decision to exile Damian from the Batman line and the Batman office was made under Snyder. Even Morrison listed Snyder as one of the reasons why he decided to put his dolls back in the box by killing Damian.

3, Didio had something against Dick's generation. Damian is not anywhere on his radar.

4, Which writer has used Damian frequently when given the chance to use the Batfamily? King

5, Who does removing Damian from the mantle of Robin favour? and who forshadowed the fact that Tim was having problems letting go twice? Tynion.

We as outsiders aren't privy to the full details but we can make an educated guess based on past behaviour and some factual info.

My assumptions are based on past confirmed behaviour and factual info while you base yours on fan made assumptions.

It is implied that Ridley... implied by ..?

Didio confirmed that 5G wasn't what fan's assumed it was.

Fans assumed that Tynion was going to be a filler writer despite the man putting out a news letter with detailed plans. DC never said that Tynion was going to be a filler writer.

Even when Didio was incharge the one attempt we know to remove Damian wasn't made by him but by Snyder. Didio wanted Dick Grayson to die in forever evil. His focus is on the JL and the Titan's generation.

You do know that Abernathy was appointed well before the decision was made to  terminate King's run?

At the end of the day we both speculate.

Do you have any data informing your speculations?
Accurate ones since details like how far back Abernathy's appointment as group editor dates back is clearly inaccurate.

You can verify this on his social media, on this site and when you look at his work history [it includes all the titles that were he's the Batman group editor]

----------


## CPSparkles

> City of Bane was Bruce's fault (seriously, what was King thinking), but Bruce did try to get Alfred out of there. Alfred was supposed to escape and once he gave the signal Bruce would send in Damian to replace him as hostage. That was literally the only reason.
> Alfred could have been the one to let the others into the mansion to defeat Thomas once he got the order to kill the hostage, but apparently Bruce didn't want to risk Alfred's life, so he risked Damian's instead.
> Bruce is the worst under King.


I just hope for the character's sake that King's run end's up retconed. 

Batman wasn't a hero under him. he was an incompetent, abusive, cowardly joke. A barely functioning man child.

He absolutely wasn't a hero.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I just hope for the character's sake that King's run end's up retconed. 
> 
> Batman wasn't a hero under him. he was an incompetent, abusive, cowardly joke. A barely functioning man child.
> 
> He absolutely wasn't a hero.


I keep my opinion of Batman being an anti-hero. I think, if someone that never saw batman read the last 2 years of comics, they would put him in the same category as Jason.
- Aggressive
- Even when don't kill let enemies to die
- Don't respect other heroes/friends/family opinion
- Lier (not Jason)
- Spank family.
- Don't try to deal with problems speaking first.

Batman is more a hero in people's memory than in maaaaaaaanyyy canons.

----------


## CPSparkles

> I keep my opinion of Batman being an anti-hero. I think, if someone that never saw batman read the last 2 years of comics, they would put him in the same category as Jason.
> - Aggressive
> - Even when don't kill let enemies to die
> - Don't respect other heroes/friends/family opinion
> - Lier (not Jason)
> - Spank family.
> - Don't try to deal with problems speaking first.
> 
> Batman is more a hero in people's memory than in maaaaaaaanyyy canons.


I get what you mean and I agree though IMO Jason displays more heroic tendencies than Batman. All the Robins for me are more heroic than Batman than batman when you think about it.

Since he evolved into bat Jerk in the 90's Bruce hasn't really been a good man. Batman is a broken victim who never got the help he needs and instead self medicates by punching bad guys.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I get what you mean and I agree though IMO Jason displays more heroic tendencies than Batman. All the Robins for me are more heroic than Batman than batman when you think about it.
> 
> Since he evolved into bat Jerk in the 90's Bruce hasn't really been a good man. Batman is a broken victim who never got the help he needs and instead self medicates by punching bad guys.


I mean, Jason, anti-hero that he is, doesn't have lethal plans for his closest friends and keeping them in the dark about it for one. And he also treats them as friends. Not tools (see Red Hood Rebirth). He may not always be completely honest, but its far from the world shattering consequences that Bruce tends to go to.

----------


## charliehustle415

Damn it, I guess we won't be seeing that Morrison sequel to Arkham Asylum with Damian. 

https://www.gamesradar.com/grant-mor...asylum-sequel/

----------


## Fergus

> Damn it, I guess we won't be seeing that Morrison sequel to Arkham Asylum with Damian. 
> 
> https://www.gamesradar.com/grant-mor...asylum-sequel/


Suspected as much for sometime. With no news, Morrison's new gig and packed schedule it just wasn't feasible anytime soon.

At least it's not a definite never so who knows. This isn't the 1st time Morrison has shelved works to only return to it later.

heck he claimed that he has said everything he had to say about batman [his reason for not taking part in the tec 1000 issue] but we know how that turned out when tec 1027 rolled up.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I mean, Jason, anti-hero that he is, doesn't have lethal plans for his closest friends and keeping them in the dark about it for one. And he also treats them as friends. Not tools (see Red Hood Rebirth). He may not always be completely honest, but its far from the world shattering consequences that Bruce tends to go to.


It's remember me in the TV show Harley says she is a "villain, but not a bad person", Bruce is kind the opposit? And, yeah, people can like Batman as a hero, but Jason is a better friend ♡♡♡
Thinking about The Boys (that I don't watch), it's about how be a hero don't means being a good person and how status and power give a free pass for breaking the law (I think), and many heroes of comics (that don't do this critics) are like this.
There is another hero that fake being a egocentric playboy for cover them identity? I feel like Bruce had many possibilities for hide Batman and he got Don Juan personality just because.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Damn it, I guess we won't be seeing that Morrison sequel to Arkham Asylum with Damian. 
> 
> https://www.gamesradar.com/grant-mor...asylum-sequel/


Aww I was looking forward to this.

I hope he comes back to it someday.

----------


## CPSparkles

> It's remember me in the TV show Harley says she is a "villain, but not a bad person", Bruce is kind the opposit? And, yeah, people can like Batman as a hero, but Jason is a better friend ♡♡♡
> Thinking about The Boys (that I don't watch), it's about how be a hero don't means being a good person and how status and power give a free pass for breaking the law (I think), and many heroes of comics (that don't do this critics) are like this.
> There is another hero that fake being a egocentric playboy for cover them identity? I feel like Bruce had many possibilities for hide Batman and he got Don Juan personality just because.


He pretends to be a playboy because it's the opposite of the Batman persona. Just like no one connects mild mannered reporter Clark Kent to the All Powerful Gob like being Superman.

It's difficult to imagine pampered society fop Bruce Wayne as the intimidating no nonsense Dark Knight.

They are polar opposites.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> He pretends to be a playboy because it's the opposite of the Batman persona. Just like no one connects mild mannered reporter Clark Kent to the All Powerful Gob like being Superman.
> 
> It's difficult to imagine pampered society fop Bruce Wayne as the intimidating no nonsense Dark Knight.
> 
> They are polar opposites.


It makes senses, but if he pretends to be mild mannered millionaire wouldn't has the same effects? Also, other heroes like Dick don't need to pretend have a opposite personality... also Flash, or Kara, or Green Lanterns.
I always have a thing with how identities are secretes without voice distortion and when all face or almost all face shows up, while I keep reading I forget about this, but so someone in the story says "my secret identity" and I remember how weird it is covered. Even if Clark and Superman have polar opposite personalities, they are exactly the same XD. I was so sure something is going to happens when he shows up naked in the new movie and get close of Louis, like, "now she will know since the begins!!! What will happens?!?!" But nop, no glasses = no clark.
And since Bruce is not a playboy anymore, doesn't mean that the playboy personality was never necessary?

I love the expression "polar opposite" ♡♡♡

----------


## CPSparkles

> It makes senses, but if he pretends to be mild mannered millionaire wouldn't has the same effects? Also, other heroes like Dick don't need to pretend have a opposite personality... also Flash, or Kara, or Green Lanterns.
> I always have a thing with how identities are secretes without voice distortion and when all face or almost all face shows up, while I keep reading I forget about this, but so someone in the story says "my secret identity" and I remember how weird it is covered. Even if Clark and Superman have polar opposite personalities, they are exactly the same XD. I was so sure something is going to happens when he shows up naked in the new movie and get close of Louis, like, "now she will know since the begins!!! What will happens?!?!" But nop, no glasses = no clark.
> And since Bruce is not a playboy anymore, doesn't mean that the playboy personality was never necessary?
> 
> I love the expression "polar opposite" ♡♡♡


Thanks 

I suppose the Billionaire *Playboy is Iconic now but when I think about it I don't recall many comics where Bruce is a *Playboy in the traditional sense. A socialite, a Fop and an eligible Bachelor yes but never a *playboy.


Heck the comics usually portrays him as a Romantic. The dude has been engaged lots of times. Has been willing to give his night time activities for love multiple times. 

He is such a lovesick puppy that there's a well known gag [do you wanna know my secret identity] that he falls in love so easily and gives his heart so willingly that he always reveals his secret identity to women.

I recall the movies portraying him as a *playboy [as in man-ho] and some very old comics where he gets kidnapped or is portrayed as being a combat useless rich boy/fop.

The Bruce being a '*playboy' thing is still a thing. That is he is still a society boy who the public associate more with Gala's and less with being a badass ninja detective.

I don't mind either way so long as I get good stories. I enjoyed the goofy old comics where Clark Kent gets trolled by the office bully or Gotham Socialite Bruce Wayne gets held hostage and then shenanigans ensue.

*Playboy doesn't always mean flirt/man-ho it can also mean party boy. Someone who lives the high life and doesn't have much responsibilities

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/byavasan



https://twitter.com/OtterTheAuthor

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/BonReason



https://twitter.com/tuckertoonie



https://twitter.com/mimi850919

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Thanks 
> 
> I suppose the Billionaire *Playboy is Iconic now but when I think about it I don't recall many comics where Bruce is a *Playboy in the traditional sense. A socialite, a Fop and an eligible Bachelor yes but never a *playboy.
> 
> 
> Heck the comics usually portrays him as a Romantic. The dude has been engaged lots of times. Has been willing to give his night time activities for love multiple times. 
> 
> He is such a lovesick puppy that there's a well known gag [do you wanna know my secret identity] that he falls in love so easily and gives his heart so willingly that he always reveals his secret identity to women.
> 
> ...


I have memories with he flirting (not as a story, but just one-panel sited things), and much more memories of this "Someone who lives the high life and doesn't have many responsibilities", but I think more about how he chose a disguise that put him in contact with toxic peoples, like too much seconds intentions and who get close thinking Bruce also has second intentions. He could be "Bruce Wayne, the sensitive billionaire that has 10 pugs and always dress colorfull clothes". 
I agree we have well-done stories with he pretending to be a play-boy, because generally is funny XD it was not a critic, it was analyze about Bruce self-destructive personality. He can fall in love fast and be a puppy, but again in his self-destruction personality with someone that approach with an image of he being an egocentric billionaire.
*about Clark's thing I have 0 remembers of this '^^ but, also, he could be the worst jerk of the work and would not be associate with Superman, but he doesn't have a self-destructive personality, he shows a nice kindy side and this must bring good friends like Peter Parker does (aaaaaaand people that want to take advanced about this, it's part of life).

----------


## Rebeca Armus

And for me it's part of why he didn't open himself for Diana, she is great, layolt, don't care nothing about Bruce being rich or not and knows him and like him because of who he is. I have the same thing with JayTemis and I am heart broken by this ending in next month </3 I want at least a good explation for this since they like each other =__=/

----------


## sifighter

Just going to leave this here from the most recent issue of DCeased today. Some people might hate it, honestly I kind of appreciate how open and personable this version of Damian is. He is literally telling his best friend and his girlfriend to come back safe because he would be upset without either one of them, and not in some hidden sarcastic way.

IMG_0977.jpg

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Just going to leave this here from the most recent issue of DCeased today. Some people might hate it, honestly I kind of appreciate how open and personable this version of Damian is. He is literally telling his best friend and his girlfriend to come back safe because he would be upset without either one of them, and not in some hidden sarcastic way.
> 
> IMG_0977.jpg


Ahhh, so happy (#=u=)/ ❤ happy kissus, happy therapy, happy jokes, I am here for see this ❤❤❤

----------


## Digifiend

lol, Wallace. He's right.

That line about "when I was their age" sounds weird, as the current Doctor Fate in the main universe IS their age. I assume this Fate is one of the older ones?

----------


## sifighter

> lol, Wallace. He's right.
> 
> That line about "when I was their age" sounds weird, as the current Doctor Fate in the main universe IS their age. I assume this Fate is one of the older ones?


Oh yeah he’s Kent Nelson, they said as such in like the second issue when he put the helmet on. I’m not sure Khalid even exists in the DCeased universe.

----------


## Yennefer

So what... Damian is going to disappear from comics eventually?

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> And for me it's part of why he didn't open himself for Diana, she is great, layolt, don't care nothing about Bruce being rich or not and knows him and like him because of who he is. I have the same thing with JayTemis and I am heart broken by this ending in next month </3 I want at least a good explation for this since they like each other =__=/


Maybe he doesn't want to ruin the friendship? Or he has a close relationship with her but only in a platonic way?

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

I think I might be the only person who doesn't want Damian to take Batman's mantle but rather they make him a pragmatic politician type anti-hero.

----------


## Blue22

I've always been against Damian growing up to become Batman (not too keen on Jon becoming Superman either). I always thought that should be a title that begins and ends with Bruce. But he claims that's his birthright and he really wants it (not sure if he still does after recent events) so I guess he might as well take the mantle someday if nobody else does. It's not the path I'd take him down but I can tolerate a future where Damian is Batman...I just wish that future didn't come with that ridiculous trench coat costume.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> I've always been against Damian growing up to become Batman (not too keen on Jon becoming Superman either). I always thought that should be a title that begins and ends with Bruce. But he claims that's his birthright and he really wants it (not sure if he still does after recent events) so I guess he might as well take the mantle someday if nobody else does. It's not the path I'd take him down but I can tolerate a future where Damian is Batman...I just wish that future didn't come with that ridiculous trench coat costume.



At this point in time Damian doesn't see Bruce's methods as the best nor does he want to be associated with Batman/robin.

----------


## Eckri

Hope's End 11.jpg

Wholesome moment between Talia and Damian. 
Man, can't remember when these two bonded like that. Last I can recall was Talia and Batman teaming up was when Damian and Talia were goods with each other.

----------


## Shen

> Just going to leave this here from the most recent issue of DCeased today. Some people might hate it, honestly I kind of appreciate how open and personable this version of Damian is. He is literally telling his best friend and his girlfriend to come back safe because he would be upset without either one of them, and not in some hidden sarcastic way.
> 
> IMG_0977.jpg


Seeing an emotionally aware Damian is kinda weird, but its a nice weird. It just sucks that whenever something like this happens, it's in a world that's ending and the views on killing are looser. DCeased has really been an escape from the mess of the main continuity.

----------


## Korath

> Just going to leave this here from the most recent issue of DCeased today. Some people might hate it, honestly I kind of appreciate how open and personable this version of Damian is. He is literally telling his best friend and his girlfriend to come back safe because he would be upset without either one of them, and not in some hidden sarcastic way.
> 
> IMG_0977.jpg


I really hate the idea that Damian needs Jon or now Cassandra to not lose it.

But I also don't see his actions in TT as bad. For me, they were just logical and justified.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I really hate the idea that Damian needs Jon or now Cassandra to not lose it.
> 
> But I also don't see his actions in TT as bad. For me, they were just logical and justified.


Damian got "Batman needs Robin to not get insane" or "Selina is the one who became the light of happiness on Batman's life or something like that" treatment. Seems like everyone collectively agree that Waynes can't handle their own emotion by themselves. But with their tracks for lashing out every time something went wrong, that's almost justified.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> I really hate the idea that Damian needs Jon or now Cassandra to not lose it.
> 
> But I also don't see his actions in TT as bad. For me, they were just logical and justified.



His actions in TT towards KGBeast are reasonable but what he did throughout the entire run with Djinn and Emiko was very Amanda Waller of him. He doesn't even have the experience like Amanda to back it up.

I'm also tired of the cliche that brooding characters just need the right cheerful extrovert to change them. What's wrong with introverted characters?

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Wrong text ><

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Damian got "Batman needs Robin to not get insane" or "Selina is the one who became the light of happiness on Batman's life or something like that" treatment. Seems like everyone collectively agree that Waynes can't handle their own emotion by themselves. But with their tracks for lashing out every time something went wrong, that's almost justified.


What should be Damian's reaction? "Whatever happens to you I will keep fine because I work alone, I am the night, I am a lonely symbol that no ones wants but needs. TT"?
I think all heroes lost control when who they love die, Tim was like this, Bruce freak out when he lost Damian, Jason cried about Roy (I think he kept well because he had Artemis and Bizarro), Superman become crazy about losting Louis.
Also Damian's Robin is Robin, Cassandra is totally different from Selina and the 3 are the triad that Batman allows his team works being friends. 
Damian is the Batman who share his feelings and looks for treatment, he looks for help for handle with feelings by himself, just avoid feelings is the opposite of deal with them.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> His actions in TT towards KGBeast are reasonable but what he did throughout the entire run with Djinn and Emiko was very Amanda Waller of him. He doesn't even have the experience like Amanda to back it up.
> 
> I'm also tired of the cliche that brooding characters just need the right cheerful extrovert to change them. What's wrong with introverted characters?


I also think Damian's actions in TT is logical, but I don't think in him about someone so introverted, he is more like someone who repress himself for being afraid of relationships, buuut, agree he is a little to cheerful in DCeased. I love introverted characters with a nice background, they are almost always my favorite in animes, but don't like when this happens just because the character is in deep pain and this never changes. A good example of this is Matt of Digimon 1, he is introverted, have a little sad story, but he deal with this and become more happy, but don't become a cheerful character, he is in peace.

----------


## Fergus

> I really hate the idea that Damian needs Jon or now Cassandra to not lose it.
> 
> But I also don't see his actions in TT as bad. For me, they were just logical and justified.


He doesn't but heavens forbid any positive growth by Damian be down to the character. How dare he have any agency.

How come when it's good the credit goes to others but when it's bad it Damian being the shitty kill hungry brat he always was or regression?

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> He doesn't but heavens forbid any positive growth by Damian be down to the character. How dare he have any agency.
> 
> How come when it's good the credit goes to others but when it's bad it Damian being the shitty kill hungry brat he always was or regression?



Why can't there been an inbetween though? It's either an edgy boy who pushes everyone away or a sad boy who *needs* people to reach out to him to show any shade of kindness.

Why not just a chill but snarky character?

----------


## Fergus

> Why can't there been an inbetween though? It's either an edgy boy who pushes everyone away or a sad boy who *needs* people to reach out to him to show any shade of kindness.
> 
> Why not just a chill but snarky character?


I'd like to say because he's 13 and insecure as all hell so he over compensates both as a mask but also because he's desperate to prove himself and yearns for approval.

Damian's got a lot to unlearn, overcome and accept due to his upbringing and the environment he grew up in. His current environment isn't helping It must suck to be replaced how many times. Once by a Starfish. Harsh!

Bruce isn't the best father or role model.
letting him take the fall for Alfred's Death.
Instructing Damian on how to own and operate an illegal arse jail.
teaching him that stopping a heart and restarting it is a totally okay thing to do.
Being proud and giving him praise after he had just hijacked Cyborgs system without his consent. Team mates aren't tools Bruce.
Never once correcting him/told him off the many times he's uttered that blood son crap.

Bruce is pretty much taking the Alfred approve to parenting. Enable the worst tendencies and let kid get away with shit.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Why can't there been an inbetween though? It's either an edgy boy who pushes everyone away or a sad boy who *needs* people to reach out to him to show any shade of kindness.
> 
> Why not just a chill but snarky character?


He kind is in between? He is not Bruce or Impulse (one of my new babiesss), the problem is: there is many middles, because everything that is not in the extremities are in middle, but for tendencies we think our middle is the best middle, I can say "Dick is not in the middle", just because I would prefer he being less funny, but he is already in the middle, but not the middle I want (just an example, love Dick how he is).

*OP characters make me itch* =what this means?
*Why not just a chill but snarky character?* Jason is already like this right? I love it =u=)/ he is not mean, but a funny sarcastic.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> He kind is in between? He is not Bruce or Impulse (one of my new babiesss), the problem is: there is many middles, because everything that is not in the extremities are in middle, but for tendencies we think our middle is the best middle, I can say "Dick is not in the middle", just because I would prefer he being less funny, but he is already in the middle, but not the middle I want (just an example, love Dick how he is).
> 
> *OP characters make me itch* =what this means?
> *Why not just a chill but snarky character?* Jason is already like this right? I love it =u=)/ he is not mean, but a funny sarcastic.


overpowered characters make me itch.

Jason is more outgoing than Damian imo. Damian's humor's a bit more dry.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> overpowered characters make me itch.
> 
> Jason is more outgoing than Damian imo. Damian's humor's a bit more dry.


Agree and agree, as I sad, Damian is a little too cheerful, but I like to see he in a happy future, he hugs Jim is now one of my favorite panels. But Damian was still pretty angry cat with the aliens, aren't him? He being soft with friends and stubborn angry cat with who he doesn't knows is pretty good for me.
I know many people will hate this idea, but if there is a DCeased 8 years after this currently time, I would love to see a Damian's child.

----------


## Light of Justice

Damian's appearance in Death in The Family leak




Now the question is, how much exactly age difference between Damian and Jason? I'm always under impression that it's no more than 10

----------


## Aahz

> Now the question is, how much exactly age difference between Damian and Jason? I'm always under impression that it's no more than 10


Pre flashpoint between 8 or 9 years imo.

Post flashpoint it is hard to pin down how old Jason is actually supposed to be.

(And if you by the Publishing date of Son of the Demon, he would have been born when Jason was Robin, so he would have been around 12 years younger, but that wouldn't really with the pre flashpoint ages.)

----------


## Jackalope89

Not to mention the whole artificially aged thing. Sometimes its referenced, other times it looks like Damian aged normally (so to speak).

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Not to mention the whole artificially aged thing. Sometimes its referenced, other times it looks like Damian aged normally (so to speak).


When they talked about Damian aged artificially?

----------


## Restingvoice

> When they talked about Damian aged artificially?


Tomasi mentioned it in an IGN interview but he also said not to think about it too much

----------


## Light of Justice

> Not to mention the whole artificially aged thing. Sometimes its referenced, other times it looks like Damian aged normally (so to speak).


If we follow RSOB storyline, then Damian ages normally, because there's him on approximately 1 year old and he celebrate his birthday by fighting his mother every year.

It's just interesting that both YJ S3 and DitF shows that Damian is still a baby post Jason's death. It implied that on animated universe, Jason is at least 15 years older than Damian.

----------


## Restingvoice

> If we follow RSOB storyline, then Damian ages normally, because there's him on approximately 1 year old and he celebrate his birthday by fighting his mother every year.
> 
> It's just interesting that both YJ S3 and DitF shows that Damian is still a baby post Jason's death. It implied that on animated universe, Jason is at least 15 years older than Damian.


Tomasi was careful enough to only show 5 years of Damian fighting Talia in Batman and Robin #0
That's because he only started to hold a sword after a certain age, but still, New 52 Batman only operated for 6 years, and he only showed Baby Damian, 4-5-year-old Damian, and after that, he ages up in real-time.

----------


## Aahz

> When they talked about Damian aged artificially?


It was introduced in the comics during the new 52, mainly because they realized that in a 5 or 6 year Batman-timeline Damian being 10 year old made no sense.

----------


## Aahz

> It's just interesting that both YJ S3 and DitF shows that Damian is still a baby post Jason's death. It implied that on animated universe, Jason is at least 15 years older than Damian.


It also increases the difference between him and the other Batfamily members.

In the (pre flashpoint) comics he was 15-17 years younger than Dick and 7 years younger than Tim.

In YJ S3 Dick is iirc 21-22, Tim is ~16 and Jason ~19.

In Under the Red Hood Jason starts (like in the original comics) as Robin at a pretty young age, so Dick is probably between 6 and 8 years older than Jason, which would make him also more than 20 years older than Damian.

----------


## Rac7d*

> It also increases the difference between him and the other Batfamily members.
> 
> In the (pre flashpoint) comics he was 15-17 years younger than Dick and 7 years younger than Tim.
> 
> In YJ S3 Dick is iirc 21-22, Tim is ~16 and Jason ~19.
> 
> In Under the Red Hood Jason starts (like in the original comics) as Robin at a pretty young age, so Dick is probably between 6 and 8 years older than Jason, which would make him also more than 20 years older than Damian.


Its becuase of that I see a natural progression to Batman for dick in that universe since Damian will be there to be his Robin and Bruce will be old

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> It’s becuase of that I see a natural progression to Batman for dick in that universe since Damian will be there to be his Robin and Bruce will be old


ok, let see if I understood.
NOW, in earth 1 Damian needed to grow up artificiality at 4years for the ages make sense? I don't like this idea </3

I really don't see Dick becoming Batman when Bruce gets old, I think he just doesn't like the idea and there are other members that would be happier and very good doing this when the time comes.
In currently canon, how old was Bruce when he became Batman?

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Ah, look this very well done fanzine focused in Damian:

https://sonialiaoart.tumblr.com/post...ked-on-a-comic



soooo well done.

----------


## Rac7d*

> ok, let see if I understood.
> NOW, in earth 1 Damian needed to grow up artificiality at 4years for the ages make sense? I don't like this idea </3
> 
> I really don't see Dick becoming Batman when Bruce gets old, I think he just doesn't like the idea and there are other members that would be happier and very good doing this when the time comes.
> In currently canon, how old was Bruce when he became Batman?


In season 2 and 3 we saw him do a lot of things he didnt like and he has a support group for it. He will become Batman, time is real in this show people are getting older look at Hal Jordan, the red hood storyline will proably happen off screen it sounds like dick is not apart of this season coming. But the bat wold is growing and evolving

----------


## Digifiend

> It was introduced in the comics during the new 52, mainly because they realized that in a 5 or 6 year Batman-timeline Damian being 10 year old made no sense.


Yup. A New 52 retcon that was tossed out in Rebirth, when they actually aged him up three years to boot.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> In season 2 and 3 we saw him do a lot of things he didn’t like and he has a support group for it. He will become Batman, time is real in this show people are getting older look at Hal Jordan, the red hood storyline will proably happen off screen it sounds like dick is not apart of this season coming. But the bat wold is growing and evolving


Ah, you are talking about tvshow, it's ok for me so.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Yup. A New 52 retcon that was tossed out in Rebirth, when they actually aged him up three years to boot.


This reboot-reage are so terrible...

----------


## Restingvoice

> ok, let see if I understood.
> NOW, in earth 1 Damian needed to grow up artificiality at 4years for the ages make sense? I don't like this idea </3
> 
> I really don't see Dick becoming Batman when Bruce gets old, I think he just doesn't like the idea and there are other members that would be happier and very good doing this when the time comes.
> In current canon, how old was Bruce when he became Batman?


Rebirth/DC Universe is using both Year One and Zero Year, and both have Bruce returned to Gotham at 25 years old. Specifically, in Year One, he returned in April as 25 years old, and his birthday is in February. He became Batman over the course of a year, so he's still 25.

----------


## Fergus

> Damian's appearance in Death in The Family leak
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the question is, how much exactly age difference between Damian and Jason? I'm always under impression that it's no more than 10


*spoilers:*
 In this movie the age difference is a lot more than 10.  

Saw this already. All I can say is that I'm glad I didn't waste a dime of it.

Interesting concept but half-arsed. WB if you have to use so many still images because you couldn't even be bothered to animated some options in a movie that's mostly comprised of footage from the old movie then don't bother including them. This is just bollocks. They also reused the animation multiple times. 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> *spoilers:*
>  In this movie the age difference is a lot more than 10.  
> 
> Saw this already. All I can say is that I'm glad I didn't waste a dime of it.
> 
> Interesting concept but half-arsed. WB if you have to use so many still images because you couldn't even be bothered to animated some options in a movie that's mostly comprised of footage from the old movie then don't bother including them. This is just bollocks. They also reused the animation multiple times. 
> *end of spoilers*


anybody else saw the exact same images with Damian with green eyes here in internet?
In this case, Damian hasn't age-up? I have no much sense but doesn't look as he is already 3. Everyone here knows about babies' age/appearance?

the bad part about this scene is if this had another soundtrack would be so optimistic and good vibes, each second looks like something pretty bad is going to start with the real music.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

What's up with all these Damian/Marinette fanfics :Confused:  Did I miss a crossover event :Stick Out Tongue: .

On the other hand, DC now knows what dynamic would be popular with fans if they tried to make a love interest in future books.

----------


## Blue22

Yeah it's pretty random. I don't know how, where, or why it started but it now makes up like 90% of crossover fanfics involving Damian.

----------


## Jackalope89

> What's up with all these Damian/Marinette fanfics Did I miss a crossover event.
> 
> On the other hand, DC now knows what dynamic would be popular with fans if they tried to make a love interest in future books.


Oh, those have been more than noted. Hell, they pop up way too often in _non_Damian fanfics. I've had to resort to filtering out Miraculous Ladybug and Chat Noir because it just comes up so often.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Yeah it's pretty random. I don't know how, where, or why it started but it now makes up like 90% of crossover fanfics involving Damian.


This is hell for me who like to read crossover Damian fics on Avengers and Young Justice. I want to read Tony and Dami interaction on fics, why do these bug fics always appeared?

By the way, anyone know when January solicitation will appear? Or they will refrain any solicitation until Death Metal conclusion?

----------


## Fergus

> What's up with all these Damian/Marinette fanfics Did I miss a crossover event.
> 
> On the other hand, DC now knows what dynamic would be popular with fans if they tried to make a love interest in future books.


It's a popular pairing for a lot of Young girls [under 16] and Miraculous fans. My daughter was really into the pair but now at age 14 she seems to have lost interest.

My guess is that there really isn't a lot of bad boy teen hero types currently especially not in the Miraculous world.

I agree that DC should try to exploit this little foot in the door. There might be an audience here.

----------


## Yennefer

I watched some clips and one ending of Death in the family... No spoilers, but I found it unnecessarily sick and twisted.

----------


## Astralabius

> By the way, anyone know when January solicitation will appear? Or they will refrain any solicitation until Death Metal conclusion?


They should come out in two days on friday.

----------


## Eckri

> I watched some clips and one ending of Death in the family... No spoilers, but I found it unnecessarily sick and twisted.


*spoilers:*
I'm assuming it was the ending where Damian gets revealed, as Jason formulates a devious plant to raise Damian to destroy both the Batman and Al Ghuls. 
Twisted, very.
Man, it seems the only continuity where Damian gets raised right, is the Batman: the Brave and the Bold.

*end of spoilers*

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> *spoilers:*
> I'm assuming it was the ending where Damian gets revealed, as Jason formulates a devious plant to raise Damian to destroy both the Batman and Al Ghuls. 
> Twisted, very.
> Man, it seems the only continuity where Damian gets raised right, is the Batman: the Brave and the Bold.
> 
> *end of spoilers*


Batman doesn't have the best rep with parenting

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> It's a popular pairing for a lot of Young girls [under 16] and Miraculous fans. My daughter was really into the pair but now at age 14 she seems to have lost interest.
> 
> My guess is that there really isn't a lot of bad boy teen hero types currently especially not in the Miraculous world.
> 
> I agree that DC should try to exploit this little foot in the door. There might be an audience here.


Shipping sells when it's done right. A lighthearted romance plotline with Damian could get him new fans

----------


## Jackalope89

> Batman doesn't have the best rep with parenting


Prior to Jason's death, and editorial's decision to kill Jason and turn him "bad", Bruce actually was a decent father figure.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> Prior to Jason's death, and editorial's decision to kill Jason and turn him "bad", Bruce actually was a decent father figure.


Debatable, he has the best intentions but anyone who runs around crime-fighting with their child can't be described as decent. Comic logic taken into account or not.

----------


## Rac7d*

It occurred to me in a different timeline Damian is the head of the league and Cassandra would be his right hand

----------


## Fergus

> Debatable, he has the best intentions but anyone who runs around crime-fighting with their child can't be described as decent. Comic logic taken into account or not.


Agreed. Taking a kid off the street presumably because you feel it's too dangerous to then dress him in bright colours to fight crime isn't something a decent person or a father would do.

There's a reason why Bruce didn't inform Tim's dad about their night time activities.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> What's up with all these Damian/Marinette fanfics Did I miss a crossover event.
> 
> On the other hand, DC now knows what dynamic would be popular with fans if they tried to make a love interest in future books.


its probably because of the new Ladybug movie, she and her classmates go to New York and find American Super Heroes,



It's a good movie, I don't recommend if you look for a cool heroes movie, there is too much teendrama, but the story is well done, and the character designs is soooo good.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Debatable, he has the best intentions but anyone who runs around crime-fighting with their child can't be described as decent. Comic logic taken into account or not.


I don't like Bruce's father methods, but admit he is better than Jason could be with his 16-18 years in Death of Family, bua AGAINNN we will just ending agreeing Dick and Alfred are better.

----------


## Drako

Damian is nowhere to be seen in the Future State solicits, but they'll introduce Red X in the continuity. Maybe is him?

----------


## Blue22

> Damian is nowhere to be seen in the Future State solicits, but they'll introduce Red X in the continuity. Maybe is him?


Yeah I was thinking that's either him or Jason. Either way it makes me glad that these future stories are apparently no longer a sign of what's to come in the present.

----------


## Drako

> Yeah I was thinking that's either him or Jason. Either way it makes me glad that these future stories are apparently no longer a sign of what's to come in the present.


Jason still is Red Hood in the solicits.

----------


## Morgoth

It's Damian. Red Hood, Nightwing and Tim (as Robin) are all announced for FS. Given that Red-X is originally associated with Robin, this is already obvious.

----------


## Frontier

Kind of as an aside, I think Red X was probably the one major popular character from the Titans cartoon that they didn't bridge over to the comics at some point.

----------


## Rac7d*

> It's Damian. Red Hood, Nightwing and Tim (as Robin) are all announced for FS. Given that Red-X is originally associated with Robin, this is already obvious.


So we have a confirmation?

----------


## Morgoth

> So we have a confirmation?


No, it's just my prediction. Maybe I'm wrong and he'll have someone else. Peacekeeper One, for example, also very likely. Especially with these "baby Hitler" teasers in Legion.

----------


## Jackalope89

> its probably because of the new Ladybug movie, she and her classmates go to New York and find American Super Heroes,
> 
> 
> 
> It's a good movie, I don't recommend if you look for a cool heroes movie, there is too much teendrama, but the story is well done, and the character designs is soooo good.


No, the DamianxMarinette thing has been going on longer than that.

And Damian as Red X? Crap. There's already a bunch of Red X and Raven ship fanfics out there. This won't make it better, at all.

----------


## Restingvoice

Where are you guys seeing this Red X news?

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> No, the DamianxMarinette thing has been going on longer than that.
> 
> And Damian as Red X? Crap. There's already a bunch of Red X and Raven ship fanfics out there. This won't make it better, at all.


I am saying this maybe became a boom again because this movie, like, there is always Avengers fics, but when a new movie is releases there is a new boom. Same thing with fanarts/parodys/incorrect quotes..

----------


## Light of Justice

> Where are you guys seeing this Red X news?


Red X appears on Future State picture and Damian is nowhere to be seen, so we just try to speculate. But there's no confirmation yet

----------


## Morgoth

Red-X is a former Titans Academy student, judging by solicits. Doesn't seem like Damian, although it may be a misleading.
But honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up being the antagonist of the Future State. This whole "baby Hitler" theme fits very well into this whole story with the Magistrate in Gotham.
But at least it's not canon, no matter what happens.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Red-X is a former Titans Academy student, judging by solicits. Doesn't seem like Damian, although it may be a misleading.
> But honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up being the antagonist of the Future State. This whole "baby Hitler" theme fits very well into this whole story with the Magistrate in Gotham.
> But at least it's not canon, no matter what happens.


Still heart breaking :/
Jon's friends of future didn't said about changes this Damian's future? Avoid Baby Hitler thing isn't one of the main missions of them?

----------


## TheCape

So after that Teen Titans Annual, what has been Damian doing?

----------


## Fergus

> So after that Teen Titans Annual, what has been Damian doing?


Nothing like so many of DC's minority characters.

----------


## Blue22

> Nothing like so many of DC's minority characters.


At least they've been remembering he's a minority XD

----------


## Rac7d*

So were basically just waiting on the next TT issue for a clue to his future

----------


## Blue22

> So were basically just waiting on the next TT issue for a clue to his future


Detective Comics, actually. He's pretty much done with the Titans.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

No news so far about Damian in Future State.  :Frown:  But Ben Abernathy said that in Detective Comics #1030 there will be some type of easter egg about the event -- it is not clear if it has anything to do with Damian or not, but I guess it probably will.

----------


## Astralabius

> Red-X is a former Titans Academy student, judging by solicits. Doesn't seem like Damian, although it may be a misleading.
> But honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up being the antagonist of the Future State. This whole "baby Hitler" theme fits very well into this whole story with the Magistrate in Gotham.
> But at least it's not canon, no matter what happens.


Even if it's not canon, this is pretty disheartening. I hoped that we could finally get good content for Damian again after Tomasi fixed some of the damage in Tec, but so far this looks like DC is just determined to continue shitting on him.

----------


## Astralabius

> Detective Comics, actually. He's pretty much done with the Titans.


If only the Teen Titans book was done with him. I was so annoyed when I read the latest issue still revolved around Damian.
The book really doesn't have a plot without him, does it?

----------


## Blue22

> If only the Teen Titans book was done with him. I was so annoyed when I read the latest issue still revolved around Damian.
> The book really doesn't have a plot without him, does it?


It actually looks like their Damian drama is gonna end after the next issue. Then the *real* Titans show up and start mentoring them. I'd prefer this run just end but I guess if the veterans can save this team, there might be some merit to them staying together.

----------


## Jackalope89

> It actually looks like their Damian drama is gonna end after the next issue. Then the *real* Titans show up and start mentoring them. I'd prefer this run just end but I guess if the veterans can save this team, there might be some merit to them staying together.


The characters have potential, but Glass badly squandered it. Like Crush, simply being Lobo's daughter (and not a weak clone) is certainly a different shift. And while anger prone, she does have a moral code. Emiko came from a similar background that Damian did, but Ollie was a less closed off family member. Potential was there, but sadly tossed aside for more "Damian is a violent prone brat that could go evil!" 

Honestly, seeing Lobo and Crush try to bond would have been pretty funny. But, nope. Have to be super serious and dark.

----------


## Morgoth

> Even if it's not canon, this is pretty disheartening. I hoped that we could finally get good content for Damian again after Tomasi fixed some of the damage in Tec, but so far this looks like DC is just determined to continue shitting on him.


Well, these are all old concepts, ideas and storylines. We don't know yet what will happen to him in the main continuity.

----------


## Astralabius

> Well, these are all old concepts, ideas and storylines. We don't know yet what will happen to him in the main continuity.


I'm aware, but this stuff seems to take up most of DC's line in January and February and at this point DC is really testing my patience.
How many more months am I supposed to wait till I get Damian content that isn't tarnished by the crap Glass wrote?
I've been waiting for this stuff to be over since 2018.

Also, I really really really don't need another "Damian is evil" story, canon or not canon. It's boring and uncreative.

----------


## Astralabius

> It actually looks like their Damian drama is gonna end after the next issue. Then the *real* Titans show up and start mentoring them. I'd prefer this run just end but I guess if the veterans can save this team, there might be some merit to them staying together.


I wouldn't be suprised if they keep dragging Damian through the mud every time they talk about wanting to be better.

----------


## Katana500

I have a feeling Damian will be the Batman in the Justice League and Suicide Squad books.

I also wonder if the new WonderWoman Yara is popular if they will bring her into the main canon as a new wondergirl. Id not be surpised if by the end of 2021 if she was the third piece of Damian and Jon's Trinity

----------


## DragonPiece

I like the idea of red x being Damian's new identity, it seperates him from other robins and I think it could last for a while.

----------


## Astralabius

> I like the idea of red x being Damian's new identity, it seperates him from other robins and I think it could last for a while.


I don't know. I'm leaning more towards him being the future version of Clownhunter.
He already has a pretty similar X design in his outfit.
I don't see why Damian should come up with the Red X mantle.

----------


## CPSparkles

> I have a feeling Damian will be the Batman in the Justice League and Suicide Squad books.
> 
> I also wonder if the new WonderWoman Yara is popular if they will bring her into the main canon as a new wondergirl. Id not be surpised if by the end of 2021 if she was the third piece of Damian and Jon's Trinity


I also wondered if the Batman in JL might be Damian. I hope it is cos otherwise DC pretty much just shit on all the legacy characters of colour from his gen.

I don't think Damian is Red X since the solicits mention the team contacting him or something along those lines.

----------


## Godlike13

What about Damian as the Magistrate?

----------


## CPSparkles

> What about Damian as the Magistrate?


It crossed my mind when he was no where to be seen + DC has been pushing that Damian anti hero button for a while now soI wouldn't put it past them.

I'm not keen on the idea and the name is lame.

----------


## Astralabius

> What about Damian as the Magistrate?


That's kinda what I fear. Remember when Bendis called Damian baby Hitler in Losh.

----------


## Astralabius

> I also wondered if the Batman in JL might be Damian. I hope it is cos otherwise DC pretty much just shit on all the legacy characters of colour from his gen.
> 
> I don't think Damian is Red X since the solicits mention the team contacting him or something along those lines.


Bleeding cool has been pretty spot on with their leaks, so I'm fairly certain the masked Batman in JL is either Luke or Tim Fox.

----------


## Konja7

> Bleeding cool has been pretty spot on with their leaks, so I'm fairly certain the masked Batman in JL is either Luke or Tim Fox.


The thing is there are differences between the suit of Batman in JL and Next Batman. It is possible they are different people, since the events of Future State books could happen at different times.

So, it's possible Luke or Tim Fox is Batman in Next Batman, while Damian is Batman in JL.

----------


## Astralabius

> The thing is there are differences between the suit of Batman in JL and Next Batman. It is possible they are different people, since the events of Future State books could happen at different times.
> 
> So, it's possible Luke or Tim Fox is Batman in Next Batman, while Damian is Batman in JL.


The suits look pretty alike and I don't think DC wants too many people running around as Batman, don't forget that Bruce is still there. The small diffences in the costumes might simply be the fault of the artists. It's too similar to really tell them apart.
I think both the new Batman and the JL Batman are the same guy and that means one of the Foxes.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> What about Damian as the Magistrate?


Could be cool if it's written well. "Damian the mastermind" better than yet another future version of Damian being Batman.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I would still prefer Damian on his own (good) path. I can see why TIM and Jason have a thing with Gotham, but for me it's not a city where Damian would like to spend all his life, just like Dick doesn't has this obsession for the City, Damian is much more someone that can has a journey out of the uglier city of the world. 
Because this I would prefer him 
- Way from Gotham for a time
- Not alone
- if possible with Dick
- having 1-3 friends near of him
- doing/learning things he likes.
(That exactly the opposite of the current situation </3...)

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Still heart breaking :/
> Jon's friends of future didn't said about changes this Damian's future? Avoid Baby Hitler thing isn't one of the main missions of them?


Was this a thing? Or I made up it up in my mind?

----------


## Astralabius

> Could be cool if it's written well. "Damian the mastermind" better than yet another future version of Damian being Batman.


We don't need another evil/misguided version of Damian either though.

And if I had to choose between Damian as a good Batman and Damian as evil I'm picking the Batman option.

----------


## Astralabius

> Was this a thing? Or I made up it up in my mind?


No, that was a thing in issue 3. I don't remember Bendis ever following up on that though.

----------


## Jackalope89

> No, that was a thing in issue 3. I don't remember Bendis ever following up on that though.


He probably meant to follow up on it in 5G or whatever, but then Didio got canned.

----------


## Restingvoice

The one thing I have for The Magistrate not being Damian is they're hunting Batman and there's an implication he's thought to be dead by their attack. Damian may round up villains and fighting vigilantes that are fighting back, but Bruce and Dick should be off limit.

----------


## Digifiend

> He probably meant to follow up on it in 5G or whatever, but then Didio got canned.


And now his only Future State book is Legion.

----------


## Morgoth

> And now his only Future State book is Legion.


By the way, it's really surprising.

----------


## DragonPiece

> And now his only Future State book is Legion.


He's mentioned working on a few big projects that had to wait to be announced, he's probably working on a few books for the March relaunch.

----------


## Darkspellmaster

> The thing is there are differences between the suit of Batman in JL and Next Batman. It is possible they are different people, since the events of Future State books could happen at different times.
> 
> So, it's possible Luke or Tim Fox is Batman in Next Batman, while Damian is Batman in JL.


Yeah, this is my guess too about Next Batman being Luke of Tim Fox. As for Damian, if he is the JL Batman, does that mean that he's working with Jon again or Kon if he is.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> He probably meant to follow up on it in 5G or whatever, but then Didio got canned.


So sad :/ I can't stop thinking how Damian is still 13, DC really needs to throw him in the evil hole? He is a baby T^T)/

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> So sad :/ I can't stop thinking how Damian is still 13, DC really needs to throw him in the evil hole? He is a baby T^T)/



He's probably Red X

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> He's probably Red X


Ah it was about the current Earth1

----------


## Restingvoice

> He's probably Red X


Not unless he turns around and becomes a Teen Titans Academy student

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> Not unless he turns around and becomes a Teen Titans Academy student


Wouldn't be the first time DC's taken a U-turn with his character.

----------


## Tzigone

> So sad :/ I can't stop thinking how Damian is still 13, DC really needs to throw him in the evil hole? He is a baby T^T)/


Well, he's not a baby, IMO, but I don't much weight behind this creative decision, either.  DC has loved making heroes behave immorally, even murderously for some time. Out right heel-turns, even, are not new. There seems to always be a hero or two falling to the darkside now, and I do not like it at all.  Does a great deal of damage to heroes, IMO.  Of course, most won't stay bad, but that just makes it more meaningless.  Also see retcons where brainwashing or similar is applied.

Obviously, dark and gritty has been in style for a while, but I'm not sure when the-hero-goes-bad plot (for more than one-off) became normalized and routine.  Hal Jordan turned bad, but that was intended to stick. I mean in sort of the same sense where it's planned (or at least kept open as a possibility) that the character will returned to herodom later when the storyline is played out. Much the way character deaths happen now.  Cass Cain did it, so it's not even new for Bats.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Well, he's not a baby, IMO, but I don't much weight behind this creative decision, either.  DC has loved making heroes behave immorally, even murderously for some time. Out right heel-turns, even, are not new. There seems to always be a hero or two falling to the darkside now, and I do not like it at all.  Does a great deal of damage to heroes, IMO.  Of course, most won't stay bad, but that just makes it more meaningless.  Also see retcons where brainwashing or similar is applied.
> 
> Obviously, dark and gritty has been in style for a while, but I'm not sure when the-hero-goes-bad plot (for more than one-off) became normalized and routine.  Hal Jordan turned bad, but that was intended to stick. I mean in sort of the same sense where it's planned (or at least kept open as a possibility) that the character will returned to herodom later when the storyline is played out. Much the way character deaths happen now.  Cass Cain did it, so it's not even new for Bats.


I don't really care about how other characters in DC universe become or not become bad :/ I want who I like keeps in a health side :/ even he has not being health in the good side two, but still better than go back to the League :/

In my heartcanon he is still a baby '^-^)/

But even if he is not a baby, and if he is 14 instead of 13, still too young to be throwed in the evil hole.

----------


## CPSparkles

Yeah the heel turn is nothing new and Damian is too young to be anything but batman's sidekick. The TT's heel turn is even more reason why he needs to be more under Bruce. Not Dick or anyone else.

Bruce is his parent. Bruce is so into collecting and parenting other peoples kids about time he focused on his own kid who really needs his guidance right now.

It so sad that Bruce made a vow not to let any kid down but he's let his own kid[s] down. Time to reevaluate what you are doing Brucie

----------


## Godlike13

Damain being Magistrate or this 01 guy fits with the character arc they have had him on for this past year. In a world state where he’s not going to be Batman and Tim is forever Robin, they had to find a way to write him out of those roles.

----------


## Blue22

Whelp. The new TT put me in such a bad mood that I'm actually reading DCeased to feel better XD

*spoilers:*
I don't know what has me more pissed. That Damian managed to make Jon give up on him with just a letter. Or that we never find out what the letter said. Either way, the next time I tell myself I'm not gonna read something, I'm gonna listen.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Light of Justice

> Whelp. The new TT put me in such a bad mood that I'm actually reading DCeased to feel better XD
> 
> *spoilers:*
> I don't know what has me more pissed. That Damian managed to make Jon give up on him with just a letter. Or that we never find out what the letter said. Either way, the next time I tell myself I'm not gonna read something, I'm gonna listen.
> *end of spoilers*


I have a feeling it will be like Jason's box case all over again. By the way, you still read TT? I stopped it after Annual 2.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

With the way things are heading in teen titans, Damian's coming back but under a ~mysterious~ disguise.

----------


## Blue22

> By the way, you still read TT? I stopped it after Annual 2.


My loyalty to the Titans name, and to Damian, keeps me coming back against my better judgement. I can't help myself lol. The only Titans run that was so bad that I dropped it and never looked back was the New 52 run. 

And now that the real Titans are about to make a return, I'm hoping things start changing for the better. Roundhouse is still alive so things won't be getting too much better. But hopefully I can get some enjoyment like I was starting to before Djinn's arc ended.

----------


## Aahz

> He's probably Red X


I hope they are not just giving Red X to Damian or some other existing character that doesn't match the personality of the animated version, and I would actually prefer his identity to stay a mystery.

----------


## Blue22

This scene never fails to get a laugh out of me.


I'm really gonna miss this universe XD

----------


## Rac7d*

He wrote Jon a dear Jon letter

----------


## the1&onlyE.

Javier Fernandez, the Teen Titans artist, posted unpublished work from the book in his Instagram. It looks like what was supposed to be Annual 2 or one of the issues before it.

I truly believe the script changed because of 5G's change of plans.

----------


## Astralabius

> Javier Fernandez, the Teen Titans artist, posted unpublished work from the book in his Instagram. It looks like what was supposed to be Annual 2 or one of the issues before it.
> 
> I truly believe the script changed because of 5G's change of plans.


Probably Annual 2.
But we already knew things changed for months. They put a whole new arc before the annual in which Damian set out to kill Brother Blood and KGBeast. The annual couldn't stay the same.

----------


## Astralabius

> With the way things are heading in teen titans, Damian's coming back but under a ~mysterious~ disguise.


If you mean Red X, I honestly don't think so. It looks like the Titans Academy that Red X is said to be a former student of will be created in the next few issues of Teen Titans and Damian is pretty much through with them and they with him.

----------


## Morgoth

I'm not sure if that means something important, but Jimenez teases something with Super Sons on his Twitter and Instagram.

----------


## Eckri

You'd think maybe, just maybe, they're just going to shelf Damian in Future State?
Like he's done with the vigilante business, and tries civilian life. 
Just a thought.

----------


## Katana500

Could this be hope?

https://twitter.com/JorgeJimenezArt/...htmode%3Dfalse

I want to see Maya and Kathy again. Hope they appear in 2021

----------


## Morgoth

In general, if it is just going to be ordinary art, then it is extremely unreasonable to tease it like that, given the whole story. And Jimenez should understand this perfectly.

----------


## Restingvoice

That kinda look like old art
It's the pose
Idk I've seen so many of them they kinda blend together
Maybe it's old Tomasi art but new Jimenez art

----------


## Rac7d*

> With the way things are heading in teen titans, Damian's coming back but under a ~mysterious~ disguise.


A anew member joins who they all like and it turns out to be Damian lol

----------


## Jman27

> This scene never fails to get a laugh out of me.
> 
> 
> I'm really gonna miss this universe XD


it was ok but too batman focus as usual im not going to miss those hairstyles though

----------


## CPSparkles

> it was ok but too batman focus as usual im not going to miss those hairstyles though


WHAT!! You are confused. That universe only had 4 Batman focused movies out of 13. It's the least Bat focused DC media section out of all the diff sections [Games, movies, comics, merch] lol

----------


## CPSparkles

> This scene never fails to get a laugh out of me.
> 
> 
> I'm really gonna miss this universe XD


Me too. I hope we get another shared Universe but if we don't I can always rewatch this verse

----------


## CPSparkles

> Could this be hope?
> 
> https://twitter.com/JorgeJimenezArt/...htmode%3Dfalse
> 
> I want to see Maya and Kathy again. Hope they appear in 2021


This is the second tease re the Supersons this month. earlier in the month DC comics twitter also teased the duo.

I hope it's something but after the way they handled Nightwing and how willing management were ruin Damian's character I'm not getting my hopes up.

----------


## Blue22

> Could this be hope?
> 
> https://twitter.com/JorgeJimenezArt/...htmode%3Dfalse
> 
> I want to see Maya and Kathy again. Hope they appear in 2021


Tom Taylor responded too....oh my God....is....this for real.....Are my sons coming home!?

----------


## Jackalope89

Missed the twitter thing, and now it seems the tweet was deleted.  :Frown:

----------


## Morgoth

It wasn't.
In general, it's really interesting where this will lead.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Missed the twitter thing, and now it seems the tweet was deleted.


Its still their I commented on it

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Hi guys.
there is someone here that write fanfics of Damian?
I was thinking about doing a liiittle collab with writers.
Something like an 800 words fic for a 1-2 panels strip comics.
ddyujh1-2bce9a0d-48f2-4305-9a70-3f68ce87fe0c.jpg

----------


## Jman27

> WHAT!! You are confused. That universe only had 4 Batman focused movies out of 13. It's the least Bat focused DC media section out of all the diff sections [Games, movies, comics, merch] lol


yeah 4 movies  but damian was a main character for another 2 so technically 6 overall the Batman presence felt very high

----------


## OpaqueGiraffe17

Jon getting put back to normal seems a likely outcome, it was a massive dud and almost everyone rightfully hated it. But what makes me skeptical is Damian going back as Robin so soon. Seems like theres been too much build up for him to move on only for him to circle back.

----------


## Tzigone

> Jon getting put back to normal seems a likely outcome, it was a massive dud and almost everyone rightfully hated it. But what makes me skeptical is Damian going back as Robin so soon. Seems like theres been too much build up for him to move on only for him to circle back.


The real Jon and Damian were off together, got captured and only just now escaped and this has been a fake Damian who only thought he was the Damian?  No, I do not want that.  Nor do I think it will happen.

----------


## Fergus

> Jon getting put back to normal seems a likely outcome, it was a massive dud and almost everyone rightfully hated it. But what makes me skeptical is Damian going back as Robin so soon. Seems like theres been too much build up for him to move on only for him to circle back.


Damian's heel turn was mandated, forced and as much a dud as jon's age up so I'm happy to have that overridden. His motives and actions are already contradicted in the same run.

If the book itself can't decide why Damian is acting the way he is, what his tm's reactions/part in the whole thing is then the run should be scrapped and retonned.

I still can't believe that DC went to these lengths just to bury a character. A successful character as well.

----------


## Fergus

> yeah 4 movies  but damian was a main character for another 2 so technically 6 overall the Batman presence felt very high


I'd say TT was an ensemble with many leads. 
I actually thought this universe was an example of DC toning it down on the Bat heavy offering

----------


## OpaqueGiraffe17

> Damian's heel turn was mandated, forced and as much a dud as jon's age up so I'm happy to have that overridden. His motives and actions are already contradicted in the same run.
> 
> If the book itself can't decide why Damian is acting the way he is, what his tm's reactions/part in the whole thing is then the run should be scrapped and retonned.
> 
> I still can't believe that DC went to these lengths just to bury a character. A successful character as well.


Well a few years ago when Damian was dead, I was one of those fools who thought " he's probably not coming back, his creator wanted to end his story and they're setting that Carrie Kelly girl up as the next Robin"
so what do I know? lol.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> Hi guys.
> there is someone here that write fanfics of Damian?
> I was thinking about doing a liiittle collab with writers.
> Something like an 800 words fic for a 1-2 panels strip comics.
> ddyujh1-2bce9a0d-48f2-4305-9a70-3f68ce87fe0c.jpg


I don't write fanfics but I this drawing is cute :Big Grin:

----------


## Tzigone

> I still can't believe that DC went to these lengths just to bury a character. A successful character as well.


I honestly don't think they intended to bury him. I think it was just meant to be a shocking heel turn to grab attention. Wasn't there even some "one step forward, two steps back" garbage?  I know his background. And for a short while, it was something of an excuse. But the character has been around more than a decade now, so the audience is going to feel he should have moved past that into a more settled hero-dom now. Not to mention he's spent 1/3rd of his life away from the LoA now.  Of course, the JL haven't exactly been the best examples these days, either.  DC loves a heel turn (though most don't last) to stir things up.  And their "flawed heroes" who occasionally lapse into villainous actions, but they're still heroes - honest.  Blech.

----------


## Fergus

> I honestly don't think they intended to bury him. I think it was just meant to be a shocking heel turn to grab attention. Wasn't there even some "one step forward, two steps back" garbage?  I know his background. And for a short while, it was something of an excuse. But the character has been around more than a decade now, so the audience is going to feel he should have moved past that into a more settled hero-dom now. Not to mention he's spent 1/3rd of his life away from the LoA now.  Of course, the JL haven't exactly been the best examples these days, either.  DC loves a heel turn (though most don't last) to stir things up.  And their "flawed heroes" who occasionally lapse into villainous actions, but they're still heroes - honest.  Blech.


I feel it was done to bury him. Have you read that run? Dark Crusader a Tim Drake fan called it Fanfiction for Tim fans and Damian-antis that how bad it was. Every issue crapped all over Damian and we never got any reason for the thing's he did.

This is a title that said that Damian Wayne, the 10 year old who gave his life for others went to hell after his sacrifice. That is unforgivable. What kind of message is that? If a 10 year old who died for others is hell bound then I guess all hope is lost for all DC heroes.

I expect angst from DC and I expect any darkness/interesting origins to be revisited but a child who turned his live around, going so far as to give his life for the safety of others going to hell. That is too far.

Not to mention that before they destroyed his character the writer 1st took steps to point out that he was nothing like his Jewish side. He was all Al Ghul and then next issue he gave us Suicide bomber Damian. That is racist

The writer and The editor can't have much care for Damian  to go that far.

----------


## Blue22

> I feel it was done to bury him. Have you read that run? Dark Crusader a Tim Drake fan called it Fanfiction for Tim fans and Damian-antis that how bad it was. Every issue crapped all over Damian and we never got any reason for the thing's he did.
> 
> This is a title that said that Damian Wayne, the 10 year old who gave his life for others went to hell after his sacrifice. That is unforgivable. What kind of message is that? If a 10 year old who died for others is hell bound then I guess all hope is lost for all DC heroes.
> 
> I expect angst from DC and I expect any darkness/interesting origins to be revisited but a child who turned his live around, going so far as to give his life for the safety of others going to hell. That is too far.
> 
> Not to mention that before they destroyed his character the writer 1st took steps to point out that he was nothing like his Jewish side. He was all Al Ghul and then next issue he gave us Suicide bomber Damian. That is racist
> 
> The writer and The editor can't have much care for Damian  to go that far.


I agree with you on just about every front here but....It wouldn't be fair if I didn't point out that Damian going to hell after he died was set up in Gleason's solo book. If I recall, that's what made him go on that "year of redemption" journey in the first place.

The only difference is that, in R:SOB, I always thought it could have been interpreted as just a bad dream. Whereas with Glass, he pretty much confirms that it wasn't.

That said, it still does send a really horrible message that, after everything he'd been through, he couldn't even find peace in death.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I don't write fanfics but I this drawing is cute


ooownnnn thanks <3 I am going to get 100 strips soon <333

But would be good had some writer contact...

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I agree with you on just about every front here but....It wouldn't be fair if I didn't point out that Damian going to hell after he died was set up in Gleason's solo book. If I recall, that's what made him go on that "year of redemption" journey in the first place.
> 
> The only difference is that, in R:SOB, I always thought it could have been interpreted as just a bad dream. Whereas with Glass, he pretty much confirms that it wasn't.
> 
> That said, it still does send a really horrible message that, after everything he'd been through, he couldn't even find peace in death.


agree 100% Damian going to hell is very sad and going back to an evil life more alone than ever is painful.

----------


## Morgoth

If this is indeed a new series, then it is likely that the clarification of this teaser will have to wait until December. I have some doubts that with promoting Future State they will now begin to announce March post-Future State releases.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Was this discarded?

----------


## Astralabius

> Was this discarded?


The suit?
No, it appeared in the last Batman arc.

----------


## GhostCryptid13

Hi I’m new here, what do you think the endgame is for Damian? Like do you think that he’ll get a new identity or stay as Robin?

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> Hi I’m new here, what do you think the endgame is for Damian? Like do you think that he’ll get a new identity or stay as Robin?


New Identity since DC keeps writing him as a "not-good" Robin

----------


## Light of Justice

> Hi I’m new here, what do you think the endgame is for Damian? Like do you think that he’ll get a new identity or stay as Robin?


Hi welcome to this thread!
I also think he will get new identity, with recent stories implied that Tim will be Robin again, and Damian was pushed away from Batman's side. The problem is, what kind of new identity will he get? Hero, vllain, or anti-hero?
I really can't wait for next Tuesday

----------


## Morgoth

> Hi I’m new here, what do you think the endgame is for Damian? Like do you think that he’ll get a new identity or stay as Robin?


It is likely that DC themselves do not know.

----------


## Fergus

> Hi Im new here, what do you think the endgame is for Damian? Like do you think that hell get a new identity or stay as Robin?



He will stay Robin. Dc is a business at the end of the day, the most profitable route will win out in the end.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Hi I’m new here, what do you think the endgame is for Damian? Like do you think that he’ll get a new identity or stay as Robin?


Depending if WB still wanna cash in on Son of Batman or not

----------


## GhostCryptid13

> I really can't wait for next Tuesday


What’s happening next Tuesday?

----------


## Astralabius

> What’s happening next Tuesday?


Detective Comics #1029 will come out on Tuesday. It will probably adress Damian's current situation, but I assume the main focus will be on the Mirror Man.
Still, it might gives us a glimpse into where Damian is headed.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Detective Comics #1029 will come out on Tuesday. It will probably adress Damian's current situation, but I assume the main focus will be on the Mirror Man.
> Still, it might gives us a glimpse into where Damian is headed.


Another note?

----------


## Astralabius

> Another note?


I don't understand the question.

My prediction is Damian will show up on the last page as a teaser for whatever he wants to do to Hush, maybe Bruce will comment on the current situation, but I don't expect a lot of Damian content just yet.

----------


## Digifiend

> If you mean Red X, I honestly don't think so. It looks like the Titans Academy that Red X is said to be a former student of will be created in the next few issues of Teen Titans and Damian is pretty much through with them and they with him.


Speaking of which, some speculation: https://www.cbr.com/red-x-secret-ide...e-teen-titans/

----------


## Korath

> Speaking of which, some speculation: https://www.cbr.com/red-x-secret-ide...e-teen-titans/



I'm kind of divides on this idea. Red X as a cool design and no actual name (even if it has a personality) attaches to his identity... but I wonder if Damian doesn't have too much an identity to be an effzctive Red X. Maybe I'm just liking his larger than life character for a young teen ?

----------


## Fergus

doesn't the character belong to someone else? The creator who currently collects any possible royalties for the character might have something to say if Damian takes up the name.

Damian isn't Red x

----------


## Jackalope89

> doesn't the character belong to someone else? The creator who currently collects any possible royalties for the character might have something to say if Damian takes up the name.
> 
> Damian isn't Red x


It was whoever created the 2nd Red X in the animated Teen Titans series. Dick was the first. Afterwards, its left up to speculation.

----------


## Astralabius

As some people on the internet have already pointed out, DC has another young character they might want to boost by giving him an identity that is unclaimed, but already familiar:
20201025_191629.jpg

20201025_191658.jpg

I don't think the X on his head was a random design choice.

----------


## Jackalope89

> As some people on the internet have already pointed out, DC has another young character they might want to boost by giving him an identity that is unclaimed, but already familiar:
> 20201025_191629.jpg
> 
> 20201025_191658.jpg
> 
> I don't think the X on his head was a random design choice.


Except "Future State" Red X is supposed to be a former Titan.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> Except "Future State" Red X is supposed to be a former Titan.


Yes, but since it is in the future, there's the possibility Bao is yet to become a Titan. I think it's a pretty interesting theory that he might be Red-X!

----------


## Jackalope89

> Yes, but since it is in the future, there's the possibility Bao is yet to become a Titan. I think it's a pretty interesting theory that he might be Red-X!


Titans are pretty clear on the "no kill" thing, with Bao more than ready to ice clowns left and right.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

On the topic of the "no kill" thing. They really should've let Damian finish his fight with KGBeast.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> Titans are pretty clear on the "no kill" thing, with Bao more than ready to ice clowns left and right.


The Titans let Rose Wilson join, I think Bao's fine.

----------


## Jackalope89

> The Titans let Rose Wilson join, I think Bao's fine.


She was on again off again though.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> She was on again off again though.


True but that had to do with her being unstable and her substance abuse issues.

I don't think Bao's completely ok but he's not nearly as self-destructive as Ravager Rose

----------


## CPSparkles

> On the topic of the "no kill" thing. They really should've let Damian finish his fight with KGBeast.


I guess they had to save some of KGBeast for Dick to have a go at once he got his memory back.

----------


## Jackalope89

> True but that had to do with her being unstable and her substance abuse issues.
> 
> I don't think Bao's completely ok but he's not nearly as self-destructive as Ravager Rose


Bao's whole goal though is to kill Joker and his followers (former and current).

----------


## Light of Justice

> Bao's whole goal though is to kill Joker and his followers (former and current).


Exactly, so we can say that Bao is clowns and Joker expert (besides Jason of course). His main mission related to Joker. I think Joker has no or at least little relation to Teen Titans? Dick or other Titans has no reason to ask help from Bao about "the evil that destroyed their team and school" if the said evil is not Joker or his goons.

But I also think that Damian is not likely become Red X. My prediction Red X is completely new person with new identity. They created new character for Wonder Woman, so why not for Red X?

----------


## king81992

> Exactly, so we can say that Bao is clowns and Joker expert (besides Jason of course). His main mission related to Joker. I think Joker has no or at least little relation to Teen Titans? Dick or other Titans has no reason to ask help from Bao about "the evil that destroyed their team and school" if the said evil is not Joker or his goons.
> 
> But I also think that Damian is not likely become Red X. My prediction Red X is completely new person with new identity. They created new character for Wonder Woman, so why not for Red X?


Or Red X is someone we already know using a different identity.

----------


## Talonkidterror

Honestly I'm hoping it's someone like a new version of Lance Bruner(the son of a old friend of Thomas wayne if i remember correctly) originally of earth one. Didn't they say this red x was connected to the titans or am I remembering wrong? Well lance was involved with the titans at one point if only as a annoyance. Or maybe red x is a grown up version of batmans good!God son(yes said godson had a evil twin who was batmans original godson) Roger burnim jr I mean if dc could bring back clark wayne from earth 3839/earth 38 in a cameo in 2015 then surely they can bring back old earth one one-shot batkids.

----------


## Astralabius

> Bao's whole goal though is to kill Joker and his followers (former and current).


That is his goal now. Don't forget Tynion will put a lot of focus on him in the next arc plus the annual. Why dedicate so much time to him if you don't want to develope him?
Red X would be perfect to move him away from his very limiting role as Clownhunter.

----------


## Astralabius

> Except "Future State" Red X is supposed to be a former Titan.


It's in the future and no, not a former Titan, a former student of Titan Academy, which doesn't exist yet.

----------


## Morgoth

By the way, I like his new outfit in 'Tec, it's not Robin suit after all.
But I want to point out that on the cover of the final December issue, he has a kind of new suit that looks like Robin's. If there was misleading before, then it looks like there really is a suit that he will wear later.

----------


## Eckri

Your guys thoughts on Detective Comics#1029? 
Damian will be returning to spotlight by Detective Comics#1030.

----------


## Blue22

Well. Damian didn't show up until the last page and he doesn't say anything. But this was still a pretty good issue. I should probably get back into Tomasi's Tec.

On the subject of what he's wearing...Yeah, after all that melodrama in Titans, I didn't think he'd be wearing the Robin suit or anything that looked like it. I do really like what he's got on though. Even if he doesn't go back to being Robin, this seems to be a pretty good looking alternative.

----------


## Korath

> Well. Damian didn't show up until the last page and he doesn't say anything. But this was still a pretty good issue. I should probably get back into Tomasi's Tec.
> 
> On the subject of what he's wearing...Yeah, after all that melodrama in Titans, I didn't think he'd be wearing the Robin suit or anything that looked like it. I do really like what he's got on though. Even if he doesn't go back to being Robin, this seems to be a pretty good looking alternative.


He'd just need some sort of domino mask, I guess, because it'd be strange for him to not have one... but as a basis for a new costume, it seems to be great !

----------


## Morgoth

large-9475607.jpg
Well, if this cover isn't misleading (but it doesn't look like a typical Damian costume, it would be weird if they made a suit like this on the cover for no reason ), then this outfit will not be worn for long.

----------


## Rac7d*

> large-9475607.jpg
> Well, if this cover isn't misleading (but it doesn't look like a typical Damian costume, it would be weird if they made a suit like this on the cover for no reason ), then this outfit will not be worn for long.


His Robin costume is his cape and tunic over his assassin garb

----------


## Rac7d*

> Exactly, so we can say that Bao is clowns and Joker expert (besides Jason of course). His main mission related to Joker. I think Joker has no or at least little relation to Teen Titans? Dick or other Titans has no reason to ask help from Bao about "the evil that destroyed their team and school" if the said evil is not Joker or his goons.
> 
> But I also think that Damian is not likely become Red X. My prediction Red X is completely new person with new identity. They created new character for Wonder Woman, so why not for Red X?


Mabey he doesn’t want to dedicate his life to this 
Remember bluebird she gave it up

----------


## Drako

> large-9475607.jpg
> Well, if this cover isn't misleading (but it doesn't look like a typical Damian costume, it would be weird if they made a suit like this on the cover for no reason ), then this outfit will not be worn for long.


To me it looks like this a little bit.

----------


## Fergus

I still think Damian in future State is going to one of the Batmen. There's got to be a reason why the batman group editor and writers are keeping it a mystery.

I know everyone is saying Luke or Tim but all the DC and the writers have confirmed is that 

there's a 48% chance it going to be a character of colour
he's shown up in batfamily titles in front of us in a different costume/out of costume
he has ties to the fox family
they are can't wait to see the excitement once the character is revealed.

It sounds like Luke or Tim Fox but it also doesn't sound like. Why the coyness if the cat was out of the bag for over a year now?

Anyway that's my way out there theory

----------


## CPSparkles

> I still think Damian in future State is going to one of the Batmen. There's got to be a reason why the batman group editor and writers are keeping it a mystery.
> 
> I know everyone is saying Luke or Tim but all the DC and the writers have confirmed is that 
> 
> there's a 48% chance it going to be a character of colour
> he's shown up in batfamily titles in front of us in a different costume/out of costume
> he has ties to the fox family
> they are can't wait to see the excitement once the character is revealed.
> 
> ...


I saw the article where they said those thing's and don't understand it myself but Dc often does stupid thing's. Won't put it past them pretending that it's a mystery when BC spoiled the Luke Fox as Batman thing a while back.

----------


## CPSparkles

Batman and Robin from DCeased



https://twitter.com/CroissantWren

DCeased has been nominated for a British Fantasy Award

http://www.britishfantasysociety.org...20-shortlists/

I hope this series gets animated at some point

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/OtterTheAuthor

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/langbuliang

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

Does Damian want to be a vampire? Trying to see why he's looking at bat bites.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Does Damian want to be a vampire? Trying to see why he's looking at bat bites.


Most of his family and pets do spend an unhealthy amount of time in a bat invested cave. Surprised he hasn't done it sooner  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## CPSparkles

From the DCAMU

Damian and Dick



Damian and Raven



https://twitter.com/DESAWORKS

----------


## CPSparkles

Damian is a good kid. Loved this story and this panel in particular. See even Grundy gets it.





from Cavalcade of horrors

----------


## CPSparkles

> By the way, I like his new outfit in 'Tec, it's not Robin suit after all.
> But I want to point out that on the cover of the final December issue, he has a kind of new suit that looks like Robin's. If there was misleading before, then it looks like there really is a suit that he will wear later.


I liked his look as well.

----------


## Light of Justice

By the way, what is exactly Black Casebook in comic universe and why Damian want it? I googled for it and I just found the _real_ Batman Black Casebook, which is compilation of Batman's iconic journeys.

----------


## Korath

> By the way, what is exactly Black Casebook in comic universe and why Damian want it? I googled for it and I just found the _real_ Batman Black Casebook, which is compilation of Batman's iconic journeys.


I think that the Black Casebook is a compilation of all the weirdest, strangest cases Batman ever worked on. Could be wrong however.

----------


## Restingvoice

> By the way, what is exactly Black Casebook in comic universe and why Damian want it? I googled for it and I just found the _real_ Batman Black Casebook, which is compilation of Batman's iconic journeys.





> I think that the Black Casebook is a compilation of all the weirdest, strangest cases Batman ever worked on. Could be wrong however.


You're right

First appeared during the Black Glove era, those silver age cases Batman was unsure if it really happened, a dream or a hallucination, because it's so out there for Post-Crisis Batman. I haven't actually read that part of the story myself, but some of it are induced hallucinations when Dr. Hurt experimented on him, during the days when Dick was Robin.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Does Damian want to be a vampire? Trying to see why he's looking at bat bites.


Where was it?
There is a game with a vampire Damian, I did like the concept art

_ saw this a long time ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PO9_HAtvnZg
It's a short video of Damian's voice actor. I always think amazing how people with bad experiences ending relating so much with Damian and see him kind like a light? (it includes me).
_

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I liked his look as well.


Can you please past this image here ? TuT?

----------


## Light of Justice

> Can you please past this image here ? TuT?




Fanart version of it

@daminyonok (instagram)

----------


## Light of Justice

> There is a game with a vampire Damian, I did like the concept art


now what was it? There's a game with vampire Damian?

----------


## Shen

> now what was it? There's a game with vampire Damian?


Yep. Nightmare Robin from Infinite Crisis. I always did like the idea, and his costume looks cool.

----------


## Shen

> Where was it?
> There is a game with a vampire Damian, I did like the concept art
> 
> _ saw this a long time ago:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PO9_HAtvnZg
> It's a short video of Damian's voice actor. I always think amazing how people with bad experiences ending relating so much with Damian and see him kind like a light? (it includes me).
> _


I haven't seen this in forever. It was really nice that the voice actor could understand Damian and relate to him. Not many people even try to, to them he'll always be the 'bad' Robin.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Yep. Nightmare Robin from Infinite Crisis. I always did like the idea, and his costume looks cool.


oh yeah I remember that comics. I don't know they made game from it

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> Fanart version of it
> 
> @daminyonok (instagram)


Both of the artstyles are cool.

I like this costume design. New hero name incoming?

----------


## Restingvoice

Isn't that what he wore in the Son of Batman movie?

----------


## Blue22

> Isn't that what he wore in the Son of Batman movie?


Similar but not exactly the same. The vest and gauntlets are a big difference.

----------


## Astralabius

> Isn't that what he wore in the Son of Batman movie?


Yeah, it looks a lot like that, only with the colors from his first comic apearance.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Fanart version of it
> 
> @daminyonok (instagram)


Thanks! The speakers is Bruce?

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I haven't seen this in forever. It was really nice that the voice actor could understand Damian and relate to him. Not many people even try to, to them he'll always be the 'bad' Robin.


Oooownnn, omg, exactly! This is the thing about Damian inside DC universe and real life readers T^T

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Maybe Damian got the book for fix bigger things in the world just like he did about year of blood... and I still think he is going to learn magic... any chances of he trying to bring Alfred back?

----------


## the1&onlyE.

For those who were wondering about the Black Casebook, here's an explanation from Grant Morrison  :Wink:

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> For those who were wondering about the Black Casebook, here's an explanation from Grant Morrison


I was wondering, thanks.

----------


## Rac7d*

When will dick find him

----------


## Astralabius

> When will dick find him


Dick already had lots of opportunities to ask about Damian but didn't.

----------


## Morgoth

They will meet in 'Tec #1032. Damian and Bruce will try to save Batfamily from Hush there, including Dick.

----------


## Astralabius

> They will meet in 'Tec #1032. Damian and Bruce will try to save Batfamily from Hush there, including Dick.


I know, but I don't think that was what Rac7d was talking about. Many people seem to want Dick to go look for Damian and help him because Bruce won't.
So far it doesn't look like that will happen though.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I haven't read nothing besides TT, what do I need to read now? I know I should read Metal... what more?

----------


## Light of Justice

> I haven't read nothing besides TT, what do I need to read now? I know I should read Metal... what more?


Detective Comic issue 1029-1032. Metal event doesn't have Damian on it, thank god

----------


## Blue22

> I know, but I don't think that was what Rac7d was talking about. Many people seem to want Dick to go look for Damian and help him because Bruce won't.
> So far it doesn't look like that will happen though.


Which really is a shame. I know those two are still close and every now and then they've still got some nice moments. But sometimes it feels like their relationship doesn't matter anymore because Damian is Bruce's Robin now. As much as I love Tomasi's Batman and Robin, the loss of the Dick/Damian duo is part of the reason I wish they had just stayed together even after Bruce came back. And I've got this gut feeling that the first time they see each other since the whole Ric fiasco won't be nearly as satisfying as I'd hoped it would be (mostly due to the circumstances surrounding said reunion). Not like the first time they saw each other after Damian came back from the dead.

Though...honestly, this would be the perfect time to bring that duo back. Damian's trying get out from under Bruce's shadow and carve his own path (whether that ends up being a good or bad thing is yet to be seen). Dick is still feeling kinda lost after going God only knows how long as a completely different person. I could totally see some kind of, like, road trip miniseries of them just taking off together to find and/or reinvent themselves. Working together not as batman and robin, mentor and student, or hero and sidekick. But as actual equals. Partners. Brothers.

----------


## Astralabius

> Which really is a shame. I know those two are still close and every now and then they've still got some nice moments. But sometimes it feels like their relationship doesn't matter anymore because Damian is Bruce's Robin now. As much as I love Tomasi's Batman and Robin, the loss of the Dick/Damian duo is part of the reason I wish they had just stayed together even after Bruce came back. And I've got this gut feeling that the first time they see each other since the whole Ric fiasco won't be nearly as satisfying as I'd hoped it would be (mostly due to the circumstances surrounding said reunion). Not like the first time they saw each other after Damian came back from the dead.
> 
> Though...honestly, this would be the perfect time to bring that duo back. Damian's trying get out from under Bruce's shadow and carve his own path (whether that ends up being a good or bad thing is yet to be seen). Dick is still feeling kinda lost after going God only knows how long as a completely different person. I could totally see some kind of, like, road trip miniseries of them just taking off together to find and/or reinvent themselves. Working together not as batman and robin, mentor and student, or hero and sidekick. But as actual equals. Partners. Brothers.


Dick is in a weird spot right now. Batman 99 and 100 and now Detective Comics 1029 had Dick back as Nightwing and his old personality without any struggles while in Nightwing he still has problems letting his time as Ric go.

----------


## CPSparkles

Man just saw this image for the Death Metal Last Days of the Dark Universe and Damian's shitty TT is part of it and he's not.

What are DC doing

----------


## Morgoth

I think the silhouette of a man in a coat above them belongs to him.
They, most likely, simply cannot show anything with him until the arc in 'Tec ends, no one knows in what role he will come out of there.

----------


## Jackalope89

That picture does raise a number of questions. Like why Djinn suddenly pops up, Terra, Shimmer, and Mammoth of all people joining, and the core members of Young Justice being there.

----------


## Rac7d*

> That picture does raise a number of questions. Like why Djinn suddenly pops up, Terra, Shimmer, and Mammoth of all people joining, and the core members of Young Justice being there.


Kid flash also isnt here

----------


## Jackalope89

> Kid flash also isn’t here


Not sure, but I think the Flash family are doing their own thing.

----------


## Astralabius

> I think the silhouette of a man in a coat above them belongs to him.
> They, most likely, simply cannot show anything with him until the arc in 'Tec ends, no one knows in what role he will come out of there.


I don't want to get my hopes up anymore to be honest. So far it has never been worth it.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

Heyy, guys! DCeased came out today, it was great as always, and it seems Damian got an Earth-11 counterpart named Talia Kane! Really excited for this, she will be in a story in December.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Heyy, guys! DCeased came out today, it was great as always, and it seems Damian got an Earth-11 counterpart named Talia Kane! Really excited for this, she will be in a story in December.


...There are SO many question about how that works for her, and I don't know if I want them answered.

----------


## Morgoth

Damian will appear in future Death Metal issue (it's not clear which, but probably sixth or seventh), Capullo posted art from there on instagram and he's there. It seems like he's Robin there.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> ...There are SO many question about how that works for her, and I don't know if I want them answered.


I'm also really curious to know her backstory, I have so many questions lol. Like, I wonder if she was also raised in the LoA, why and how? And if she is named Talia, is Talia named Damian? It would be a very nice exchange. 




> Damian will appear in future Death Metal issue (it's not clear which, but probably sixth or seventh), Capullo posted art from there on instagram and he's there. It seems like he's Robin there.


Oh, nice!! I honestly thought he wouldn't appear. Is the other person in the panel Tim or Dick, though? Can't really tell.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Damian will appear in future Death Metal issue (it's not clear which, but probably sixth or seventh), Capullo posted art from there on instagram and he's there. It seems like he's Robin there.


Is Death Metal still in-continuity? with how chaotic the event is, I'm always under impression that Death Metal is out of continuity.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> Is Death Metal still in-continuity? with how chaotic the event is, I'm always under impression that Death Metal is out of continuity.


It probably is in-continuity but DC's hoping we forget that.

----------


## Light of Justice

> It probably is in-continuity but DC's hoping we forget that.


Don't worry DC, I don't read any Death Metal issue except Gotham Resistance, and not only because Damian is there, but also only on those issues I can tolerate Batman Who Laugh and his......everything. I will forget about Metal event in no time.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Is Death Metal still in-continuity? with how chaotic the event is, I'm always under impression that Death Metal is out of continuity.


Death Metal is the climax of Snyder's Justice League, Batman/Superman, JL Odyssey, and continuation of Flash Forward, so it's very much in continuity.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Death Metal is the climax of Snyder's Justice League, Batman/Superman, JL Odyssey, and continuation of Flash Forward, so it's very much in continuity.


For now. Until the next event.

----------


## Shen

So Maps from Gotham Academy is going to be the new Robin in Batman: Black and White.

----------


## Astralabius

> So Maps from Gotham Academy is going to be the new Robin in Batman: Black and White.


Yeah, but that's not canon in case you were worried about that.

----------


## Shen

> Yeah, but that's not canon in case you were worried about that.


I was actually. I don't know if GA is canon, but I'd like to count Maps as one of Damian's friends. Seeing her in the Robin uniform gave me flashbacks of Steph, and for some reason I thought Bruce would use Mia to bring Damian back to his side like he tried with Tim.

----------


## Astralabius

> I was actually. I don't know if GA is canon, but I'd like to count Maps as one of Damian's friends. Seeing her in the Robin uniform gave me flashbacks of Steph, and for some reason I thought Bruce would use Mia to bring Damian back to his side like he tried with Tim.


According to bleedingcool Batman: Black and White was just a way to keep creators busy whose original 5G project was cancelled. It also sounds more like a bunch of stand alone stories than anything connected. So Maps might be Robin in that one story and that's it.

I would be way more worried about DC trying to make Tim Robin again since he will be Robin in Future State: Robin eternal. That's not exactly canon either, but has more connections to DC's current direction.

----------


## Astralabius

It also doesn't look like Bruce did anything on his own to get Damian back after the annual. Bruce didn't even think about his son until Damian disrupted his work by stealing the black casebook at the end of Tec 1029.
I wouldn't be suprised if DC thought Bruce's weak attemp to stop Damian in Teen Titans was enough effort on Bruce's part so now they don't need him to keep trying.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> It also doesn't look like Bruce did anything on his own to get Damian back after the annual. Bruce didn't even think about his son until Damian disrupted his work by stealing the black casebook at the end of Tec 1029.
> I wouldn't be suprised if DC thought Bruce's weak attemp to stop Damian in Teen Titans was enough effort on Bruce's part so now they don't need him to keep trying.


This is pretty Bruce Wayne for me, he was the same with Dick....... and Jason...

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Did Bruce say "sorry" for tried put Jason in Arkham after the fake Penguin's shoot?

----------


## Jackalope89

> Did Bruce say "sorry" for tried put Jason in Arkham after the fake Penguin's shoot?


No. Just a hug after dropping the bomb of Roy's death on him. DC then waved it off as "enough".

----------


## Morgoth

As I thought, at least for now, Tomasi simply ignores most of TT, leaving only the very fact of Damian's departure. There is simply not a word about Blood's murder and the secret prison in 'Tec #1030.
And Damian is independently investigating attempts to kill Bruce in the past, apparently, in this way he will face Hush. 
In short, while it seems to me that everything is leading to the fact that Damian will return to the Bat-family.

----------


## Eckri

*spoilers:*
I wouldn't want Damian returning so soon to the Bat-family, maybe a neutral stance would be a okay for the end outcome.
It's just too soon for him to become Robin again, plus in my opinion his rookie assassin outfit is a good look for him, maybe a little redesign would make it better.
Considering the next issue is a Batman and Robin team up to save the batfamily, Damian immediately be welcomed with open arms is just too soon.
I mean the Teen Titans still want to bring Damian to justice for the murder, if he actually did it, plus the whole 'Dear Jon' letter would be pointless if he'd just return to the family after one issue.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> *spoilers:*
> I wouldn't want Damian returning so soon to the Bat-family, maybe a neutral stance would be a okay for the end outcome.
> It's just too soon for him to become Robin again, plus in my opinion his rookie assassin outfit is a good look for him, maybe a little redesign would make it better.
> Considering the next issue is a Batman and Robin team up to save the batfamily, Damian immediately be welcomed with open arms is just too soon.
> I mean the Teen Titans still want to bring Damian to justice for the murder, if he actually did it, plus the whole 'Dear Jon' letter would be pointless if he'd just return to the family after one issue.
> *end of spoilers*


I gotta agree, as much as people don't like what happened resolving it quickly just makes his character development even cheaper.

----------


## Morgoth

This will not be surprising, because the storyline of the Titans was not written by the people from the Bat-office, now Damian is with them, and it is likely that they just want to throw off the ballast.
And the vast majority hated that storyline, so it's another reason for them to ignore it.

----------


## Blue22

I accepted a rushed conclusion to the Ric storyline. In fact I welcomed it with open arms. I can accept a rushed conclusion to Damian's current...episode.

----------


## Korath

Unsurprisingly, not a fan at all of Tomasi reducing the events of TT to Damian having a temper tantrum and being treated like a child - again. Nothing good will come from DC eltting him have his hands on Damian again. He'll only regress the character further and makes him even more of a joke and less of a central character. Ten bucks that if Kid Jons returns then Damian will become entirely adjacent to him - and even dependant on him, somehow.

Really not a fan of this writing.

----------


## J. D. Guy

> Unsurprisingly, not a fan at all of Tomasi reducing the events of TT to Damian having a temper tantrum and being treated like a child - again. Nothing good will come from DC eltting him have his hands on Damian again. He'll only regress the character further and makes him even more of a joke and less of a central character. Ten bucks that if Kid Jons returns then Damian will become entirely adjacent to him - and even dependant on him, somehow.
> 
> Really not a fan of this writing.


As someone who is still enjoying the Teen Titans run, I'm not a fan of the idea of someone sweeping all the events and developments under the rug in general.

----------


## Blue22

I don't necessarily want everything he did to be swept under the rug. But I also can't say I'd be complaining too much if it was. It's like the Rick situation or Steph's victim syndicate phase in that I wasn't a fan of it from the start and don't really care how it ends, so long as it ends.




> Unsurprisingly, not a fan at all of Tomasi reducing the events of TT to Damian having a temper tantrum and being treated like a child - .


I mean...that's basically what that issue was. Him having his equivalent of a teenage temper tantrum. He got his licks out on Bruce and Bruce let him because he's an angry child who clearly needed to vent. 

TT already simplified his actions and motivations by pretending this was all about Alfred and completely ignoring the event that made him start that team in the first place. Which kinda sucks because I actually did like his original motive.

----------


## Astralabius

> I don't necessarily want everything he did to be swept under the rug. But I also can't say I'd be complaining too much if it was. It's like the Rick situation or Steph's victim syndicate phase in that I wasn't a fan of it from the start and don't really care how it ends, so long as it ends.
> 
> 
> 
> I mean...that's basically what that issue was. Him having his equivalent of a teenage temper tantrum. He got his licks out on Bruce and Bruce let him because he's an angry child who clearly needed to vent. 
> 
> TT already simplified his actions and motivations by pretending this was all about Alfred and completely ignoring the event that made him start that team in the first place. Which kinda sucks because I actually did like his original motive.


I think his original motivation was pretty weak and also pretty pointless. Damian will always fail to find a better way to fight crime because DC less crime means no story and also nobody is ever allowed to be better than Batman. It sucks but that's how DC works. So when I first saw what Glass was trying to do I knew it was doomed. I have no interest in stories like that.

----------


## Astralabius

> As someone who is still enjoying the Teen Titans run, I'm not a fan of the idea of someone sweeping all the events and developments under the rug in general.


I have to disagree, the sooner we forget this book ever existed the better.

----------


## Astralabius

> Did Bruce say "sorry" for tried put Jason in Arkham after the fake Penguin's shoot?


Nope, he told him he "deserved a kick in the ass from time to time" pr something along those lines and thought that made it okay.

----------


## Konja7

> No. Just a hug after dropping the bomb of Roy's death on him. DC then waved it off as "enough".


What issue this hug happened?

----------


## Jackalope89

> What issue this hug happened?


32 I want to say? Around there anyway.

----------


## Konja7

> 32 I want to say? Around there anyway.


Thank you very much.

----------


## Sergard

> 32 I want to say? Around there anyway.


It's actually 27 - two issues after their falling-out.

----------


## Jackalope89

> It's actually 27 - two issues after their fallout.


Been awhile, thanks.

----------


## Avi

I expected more. I get that Tomasi is ignoring stuff, especially if he truly has to bring Damian back to the "good side" in the now last 3 (?) issues of his run, but this is such a short cut that it feels incredibly boring. The Batfamily having barely any reaction toward what happened also felt wrong. At least half of those characters care for Damian. Or should.

But I agree that the assassin/black-op outfit looks good. Hope we see more of it.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I expected more. I get that Tomasi is ignoring stuff, especially if he truly has to bring Damian back to the "good side" in the now last 3 (?) issues of his run


Yes Tomasi said that he writes Tec book only until issue #1033

----------


## Digifiend

Wait, so he's off the book when it returns after Future State? Where did he say that?

----------


## Light of Justice

> Wait, so he's off the book when it returns after Future State? Where did he say that?


Screenshot_2020-11-11-17-36-27-111_com.twitter.android.jpg

Here's from his twitter. He presumably will be off the book to write something titled "Alexander Nevsky"

----------


## Light of Justice

Btw, here's sneak peek of Tec #1033 from Tomasi's account. His domino mask is back, so he will be Robin again?

----------


## Morgoth

He's wearing Robin suit in Death Metal as well, Capullo showed sneak peak from one of future issues.
Walker, by the way, already had a sneak peek on Instagram from one of the future issues. It depicts Bruce and someone else (the figure is not drawn to the end), but in the hashtags Walker indicated that it is Robin, without specifying which one. Now, apparently, it is clear which one.

----------


## Korath

Urgh, wonderful. Way to make Damian's character even more pathetic, now he does tamper tantrums and then return back to Robin. 

The Rebirth era will have been horrible for him from start to finish save for a few issues of TT it seems.

----------


## Astralabius

> Urgh, wonderful. Way to make Damian's character even more pathetic, now he does tamper tantrums and then return back to Robin. 
> 
> The Rebirth era will have been horrible for him from start to finish save for a few issues of TT it seems.


If that's what it takes to get readable Damian stories again, fine by me. Almost everything about Teen Titans was unenjoyable garbage and the worst part is, ending up that was was basically the only way such  story could go in the DC universe.

----------


## Astralabius

> Screenshot_2020-11-11-17-36-27-111_com.twitter.android.jpg
> 
> Here's from his twitter. He presumably will be off the book to write something titled "Alexander Nevsky"


I don't think that "Alexander Nevsky" is the "something else for DC" he's talking about here. So while he's probably off Tec he will continue to work for DC.

----------


## Korath

> If that's what it takes to get readable Damian stories again, fine by me. Almost everything about Teen Titans was unenjoyable garbage and the worst part is, ending up that was was basically the only way such  story could go in the DC universe.


It will make Damian less readable not more. I found that during Glass TT he was far more sympathetic and understandable than anywhere else during Rebirth, even the previous TT run of 2016. Now, he just seems set to become a pathetic little wimp who does tamper tantrums, goes out with grandiloquent tirades only to return like a pathetic dog to his own, with his tail between his legs because reasons.

That's trash tier level of writing and characterization for any character but especially damageable for him.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> It will make Damian less readable not more. I found that during Glass TT he was far more sympathetic and understandable than anywhere else during Rebirth, even the previous TT run of 2016. Now, he just seems set to become a pathetic little wimp who does tamper tantrums, goes out with grandiloquent tirades only to return like a pathetic dog to his own, with his tail between his legs because reasons.
> 
> That's trash tier level of writing and characterization for any character but especially damageable for him.



I know it's subjective but I didn't find Glass' Robin to be very sympathetic. He could be entertaining but something about the way the writing justified his actions wasn't likeable.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I know it's subjective but I didn't find Glass' Robin to be very sympathetic. He could be entertaining but something about the way the writing justified his actions wasn't likeable.


You mean going from a clear Middle Eastern background to strapping a bomb to Damian's chest? Yeah...

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> You mean going from a clear Middle Eastern background to strapping a bomb to Damian's chest? Yeah...


And Damian acting like a sociopath. I felt like I was reading an edge fest and not the fun kind.

----------


## CPSparkles

> It will make Damian less readable not more. I found that during Glass TT he was far more sympathetic and understandable than anywhere else during Rebirth, even the previous TT run of 2016. Now, he just seems set to become a pathetic little wimp who does tamper tantrums, goes out with grandiloquent tirades only to return like a pathetic dog to his own, with his tail between his legs because reasons.
> 
> That's trash tier level of writing and characterization for any character but especially damageable for him.


That's quite the read considering Glass TT run was a deliberate attempt at ruining the character. Pushing him to such an unlikable extreme so they can take Robin away him so they can justify/ sway WB to allow them to do so.

Glass crapped on Damian every issue.
he was pushed around and phy7sically attacked multiple times by Crush
Was blamed for accidentally killing RH's sis
Turned into a Suicide bomber
Took an L from Jason who he had beaten handily before
Agreed to be mentored by Jason who isn't his even equal in anyway
Went to hell
is all AlGhul no Wayne according to Alfred
his motivations made no sense
Damian we learnt doesn't really belong in Gotham or with the batfam preferring to hang out with the Middle Eastern refugees in Gotham
His team are afraid of him despite constantly bullying and smacking him around.


TT was a hate letter to Damian and his fans Masterminded by Glass and those with Power behind the scenes who have been trying to replace him since Snyder took over Batman.

It's been 9 years and I'm still waiting for Damian to have a peaceful tenure as Robin/Batman's sidekick

----------


## CPSparkles

I'm glad Damian is getting away scot free with what happened in TT. It wasn't right what they attempted to do to the character.

There's no justification for deliberate character assassination. Damian did not deserve what was done to his character. No character deserves that. 

It's fitting that his about turn should be just as swift as his heel turn and make about as much sense. Nicely done Tomasi

----------


## sifighter

I’ve said this before but it’s just so weird that if Damian did kill brother blood we never saw it. He said he did it sure and apparently Batman figured it out, but we never see a flashback or even a recording showing him doing it. If it literally wasn’t for Batman monologuing that Robin killed someone and Damian not denying it you’d think someone set him up.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

I think this situation is just really complicated to say the least. 

Honestly, on one hand I don't really like how they suddenly ignoring everything, because I don't feel it helps Damian's character. That whole prison thing needs to be retconned completely or be properly resolved, and this in-between we seemenly are now is no good, because some people will not suddenly forget about everything that happened - and the way it is ignored. On the other, however, that whole thing was just so out of character and nonsense, I am kinda of glad they are ignoring it. lol It just irritates me the way they went so far to make sure Damian was turned into a villain to now just pretend everything is fine, you know? Because it isn't fine! I'm still really mad about it!

 But I really do think it needs to be properly resolved, not just brushed aside.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> I’ve said this before but it’s just so weird that if Damian did kill brother blood we never saw it. He said he did it sure and apparently Batman figured it out, but we never see a flashback or even a recording showing him doing it. If it literally wasn’t for Batman monologuing that Robin killed someone and Damian not denying it you’d think someone set him up.


Agreed! I kept waiting for a turn of events, but now there's only one issue left in Teen Titans, so I don't know.

----------


## sifighter

> Agreed! I kept waiting for a turn of events, but now there's only one issue left in Teen Titans, so I don't know.


Actually you know what it feels like, it feels a lot like the Tom King City of Bane Alfred Death. If you aren’t aware King meant for the Death to be a fake out and that either it was clay face or it was all a scarecrow fear has trick showing Damian his worst fear but someone on the editorial level liked the idea so it was changed that Alfred really did die. 

Here it feels like Damian was being set up as the obvious red herring for the murder and then it was switched half way through that he did do it but they didn’t have time to change the art or something. That’s what it’s starting to feel like to me, but that’s just unsubstantiated theory so don’t take too much what I said at face value.

----------


## Korath

> That's quite the read considering Glass TT run was a deliberate attempt at ruining the character. Pushing him to such an unlikable extreme so they can take Robin away him so they can justify/ sway WB to allow them to do so.
> 
> Glass crapped on Damian every issue.
> he was pushed around and phy7sically attacked multiple times by Crush
> Was blamed for accidentally killing RH's sis
> Turned into a Suicide bomber
> Took an L from Jason who he had beaten handily before
> Agreed to be mentored by Jason who isn't his even equal in anyway
> Went to hell
> ...


That's utter nonsense. 

Damian in Glass teen Titans was extremely relatable as a confused youth who had been used as child soldier by his own parents all his life and was struggling to find a way he felt worked to stop the criminals who keep destroying lives around him. He aligned with Red Hood - someone he had beaten before because he had taken him by surprise - and strapped bomb to himself because he knew it give Jason pause if need be and had nothing of those toxic implications US readers love to see everytime someone isn't entirely from European descent (which is one of you guys problems : your multi-culturalism sucks because it keeps creating walls between people by creating communities instead of forging a nation but it isnt really here nor there)).

And of course he'd lean more toward the al'ghul teachings because his father's led to the destruction not only of a whole planet but of plenty of innocent peoples because Batman can't prevent the likes of Joker, Black Mask and all from killing untold numbers of peoples. Damian deciding that enough is enough was one of the most heroic things he did, and struggling to try and find the best way to achieve true peace for the peoples of Gotham. He did mistakes of course, but they were born og the best intentions.

And his team was dysfunctional because his father never even tried to make him get out of his child-soldier mindset. If Batman had truly wanted his son to be normal, he should have barred him entirely from the vigilante business and force him to be just a student in Gotham Academy or something like that. Because then he'd have had to interact with normal kids (mostly) and had to develop a life outside of the war on crime. Instead, Bruce felt it was a great idea to just put him in a Robin costume and call it a day since he barely had to train him at all to make him able to fight alone. Of course he doesn't know how to make a team work, he was never trained to be! With his mother he was trained to rule, it was kill or be killed. With Batman it was obey his every order and that's it! He does what he has been told to do, to command and expects others to obey like they do his fathers. It's not a mistake, it's not even a real flaw. It's the result of what has been his life up until this point.

And I love Damian as this cold and brutal vigilante who sometimes need to be reined in. And him lashing out at Batman and tearing away the R from his chest was one of his best and strongest moments, because for the first time ever, he got to decide who he was, by himself and for himself. Not to satisfy the ambitions of his mother or his father. To decide who Damian the teenager is, what he wants and what he believe in. 

If three issues laters he is Robin again, alongside Batman, I'm sorry but it's the worst thing which could happen to him and will make this character utterly unreadable. The next time he'll voice any complain, he'll have to shut up because then he'd be a little wimp who does tamper tantrums because daddy doesn't love him enough or another bullshit excuse that Tomasi will puke on the page. It sucks, and it shouldn't be what this character is, a pathetic piece of shit who cries and need the oh so better adjusted Kid Jon or Cassie Sandsmark or Dick or whoever DC will throw at him next to have any sense of a moral compass. 

Him going for the kill on Blood and KGBeast doesn't make him a monster, it makes him someone who has decided that enough is enough and that those who have been given all the chances to make amends and never do have to be stopped for good. Him returning to Batman like nothing happened and adhering to his code but with "TT" makes him a trash character and confirm that since Rebirth, he has devolved into a pathetic creation and that Grant Morrison was right to want him dead and fully dead. 

I'd rather he hadn't returned after being killed by The Heretic than to see him as Batman's good boy.

----------


## KrustyKid

> That's utter nonsense. 
> 
> Damian in Glass teen Titans was extremely relatable as a confused youth who had been used as child soldier by his own parents all his life and was struggling to find a way he felt worked to stop the criminals who keep destroying lives around him. He aligned with Red Hood - someone he had beaten before because he had taken him by surprise - and strapped bomb to himself because he knew it give Jason pause if need be and had nothing of those toxic implications US readers love to see everytime someone isn't entirely from European descent (which is one of you guys problems : your multi-culturalism sucks because it keeps creating walls between people by creating communities instead of forging a nation but it isnt really here nor there)).
> 
> And of course he'd lean more toward the al'ghul teachings because his father's led to the destruction not only of a whole planet but of plenty of innocent peoples because Batman can't prevent the likes of Joker, Black Mask and all from killing untold numbers of peoples. Damian deciding that enough is enough was one of the most heroic things he did, and struggling to try and find the best way to achieve true peace for the peoples of Gotham. He did mistakes of course, but they were born og the best intentions.
> 
> And his team was dysfunctional because his father never even tried to make him get out of his child-soldier mindset. If Batman had truly wanted his son to be normal, he should have barred him entirely from the vigilante business and force him to be just a student in Gotham Academy or something like that. Because then he'd have had to interact with normal kids (mostly) and had to develop a life outside of the war on crime. Instead, Bruce felt it was a great idea to just put him in a Robin costume and call it a day since he barely had to train him at all to make him able to fight alone. Of course he doesn't know how to make a team work, he was never trained to be! With his mother he was trained to rule, it was kill or be killed. With Batman it was obey his every order and that's it! He does what he has been told to do, to command and expects others to obey like they do his fathers. It's not a mistake, it's not even a real flaw. It's the result of what has been his life up until this point.
> 
> And I love Damian as this cold and brutal vigilante who sometimes need to be reined in. And him lashing out at Batman and tearing away the R from his chest was one of his best and strongest moments, because *for the first time ever, he got to decide who he was, by himself and for himself. Not to satisfy the ambitions of his mother or his father. To decide who Damian the teenager is, what he wants and what he believe in*. 
> ...


Great point right there

----------


## Light of Justice

> That's utter nonsense. 
> 
> Damian in Glass teen Titans was extremely relatable as a confused youth who had been used as child soldier by his own parents all his life and was struggling to find a way he felt worked to stop the criminals who keep destroying lives around him. He aligned with Red Hood - someone he had beaten before because he had taken him by surprise - and strapped bomb to himself because he knew it give Jason pause if need be and had nothing of those toxic implications US readers love to see everytime someone isn't entirely from European descent (which is one of you guys problems : your multi-culturalism sucks because it keeps creating walls between people by creating communities instead of forging a nation but it isnt really here nor there)).
> 
> And of course he'd lean more toward the al'ghul teachings because his father's led to the destruction not only of a whole planet but of plenty of innocent peoples because Batman can't prevent the likes of Joker, Black Mask and all from killing untold numbers of peoples. Damian deciding that enough is enough was one of the most heroic things he did, and struggling to try and find the best way to achieve true peace for the peoples of Gotham. He did mistakes of course, but they were born og the best intentions.
> 
> And his team was dysfunctional because his father never even tried to make him get out of his child-soldier mindset. If Batman had truly wanted his son to be normal, he should have barred him entirely from the vigilante business and force him to be just a student in Gotham Academy or something like that. Because then he'd have had to interact with normal kids (mostly) and had to develop a life outside of the war on crime. Instead, Bruce felt it was a great idea to just put him in a Robin costume and call it a day since he barely had to train him at all to make him able to fight alone. Of course he doesn't know how to make a team work, he was never trained to be! With his mother he was trained to rule, it was kill or be killed. With Batman it was obey his every order and that's it! He does what he has been told to do, to command and expects others to obey like they do his fathers. It's not a mistake, it's not even a real flaw. It's the result of what has been his life up until this point.
> 
> And I love Damian as this cold and brutal vigilante who sometimes need to be reined in. And him lashing out at Batman and tearing away the R from his chest was one of his best and strongest moments, because for the first time ever, he got to decide who he was, by himself and for himself. Not to satisfy the ambitions of his mother or his father. To decide who Damian the teenager is, what he wants and what he believe in. 
> ...


I'm partially agree with you. When we think again, Damian's act and frustration is understandable. He's teenager, who just see that his father is not the embodiment of living god he always think. I love prison arc (Terminus Agenda is just so good, really I will give anything to Priest if he writes Damian again, preferably without his obsession to make Deathstroke as Damian's secret dad), kinda okay mind-wiping arc, Lobo arc is also okay, The Other arc is disappointing, Djinn war is just big meh, and I loathe the fact that on Thompson run he tried to make his team join him to murder villains. I have no problem with him kills again or kill in period, but still, he felt responsible for Emiko when she killed Deathstroke for his sake, at least he knew that not everyone will be on board with his murder way, even though he thought that it's the best way. I also agree with you that him ripped Robin badge is just so powerful and I practically cheered when he said that he's finally free to forge his own way, not Batman's way or Al Ghul's way. Him becoming Robin again with such 3 issues story, not to mention with him following Bruce's past track is just undermine his rightful anger. I am one of few people who want Damian moved from Robin title (even though I still think he's too young to fend on his own), because on past years seems like DC just forget that Damian is Robin, with him absent from his role as Batman sidekick, and so I feel like Damian is really detached from Robin title even before TT was a thing. Oh also even though I don't hate the book, I dropped DCeased as soon as I saw a panel that said that Damian is not as emotionally constipated as Bruce, because Lois and Jon 'raised' him. Gee, so it's Alfred's fault that Bruce became emotionally constipated until his death? Good for other Damian fans, but Damian who doesn't struggle to connect with people and without overconfidence attitude like kitten puffing its fur to stranger is not my Damian. Damian who hug and smile easily and can perfectly empathized with other people is just feel....wrong. 

BUT, I also agree with @CPSparkles, that book is created to hurt Damian. I don't think they want the reader to sympathized with Damian, because if that's the case, they will not victimized others that much. I mean, they had their fair share of fault for at least mind wiping arc but what did we got? Boo hoo Wallace actually didn't agree but Thawne manipulate him, Emiko got hurt because of Damian, Djinn suddenly was manipulated by Damian, Crush lost her girlfriend and somehow she directed that anger only to Damian and become all buddy buddy with Roundhouse who imprison Djinn on the first place, and Roundhouse you gross big blue of moldy cheese ball(I hate cheese btw), yes you are truly fungus at its final form, what do you mean Damian ruined Teen Titans for you? He's the one who fricking built it, you are the one who fricking betrayed team, and if I remember correctly did you enter the team so you can have revenge on Damian? Also we didn't see his inner turmoil or something to make readers sympathized with him. The books only shows his arrogance of his own way, and as much as I like Damian's overconfidence attitude, his arrogance will not make reader empathize with him. And this is double painful for us, because we know him, we can sympathize with him, but other people who barely know Damian cannot, and we can't blame them if they hate Damian because of that books.

Not to mention the story-telling except on terminus agenda is just plain mess. Oh on this issue we know that Jason mentored Damian, but then 2 issues later Damian thought that Jason betrayed him, confronted him, blackmailed him with the damned mysterious box that we don't know the meaning and maybe we never will, but that was so important for Jason because even Alfred said that Damian resembled Ra's Al Ghul for taking that box. That, and the lack of their interaction to build trust or something clearly painted Damian as one sided aggressor who tried to beat up poor innocent man (and failed, to sprinkle salt on the wound). Emiko joined Damian's team because she had a beef with The Other as well, but when she finally met him, she has no notable response. Djinn war arc and conclusion is just plain bad, and why they mention that Elias knew Damian but then never mentioned it again? To prove that he's such a demon boy? Crush joined Damian's team for her chains, but then she achieved in on one issue, with Djinn nonetheless. Emiko and Wallace romance came out of nowhere, the revelation is practically in hell. Even until now we don't know if Damian killed Brother Blood or not, and I bet that we will never know what Damian wrote to Jon because the books is just that bad and that unsatisfying at storytelling. 

So my conclusion is, even though I didn't completely hate it, if DC retconned that book you will not see me complaining. Preferably DC retcon the book except Terminus Agenda arc and TT annual #2.

----------


## Morgoth

On the one hand, I can't say that I'm upset with the direction, because I don't like Glass's Titans, and Damian's "development" there only irritated me, I don't like that. That is, I will not be upset that now there is a retcon. But this is only from one point of view, more emotional.
On the other hand, they go the simplest and cheapest way possible, this cannot be denied. And ignore, and even retcon events what happened just recently, well, it's really weird. That is, they will simply ignore a considerable number of events in the character's story so that the general public is happy. In much the same way, Williamson made Thawne involved in HiC events. For those who hate that event (most of fans, let's be honest), this retcon was acceptable, but that doesn't negate the fact that it's a cheap move, designed to keep the public happy and no longer complain about Wally. 
In any case, as far as I can tell, most of the audience complained about Damian in TT almost from the very beginning. To the point where Glass had to make excuses on Instagram. And this along with the fact that they constantly yelled about bringing back Super Sons, about character assasination, to improve Damian's relationship with Bruce, etc. Even the complete OOC in DCeased is more praised. Therefore, there is nothing surprising here in the fact that they decided to leave that plot and return everything to the old status quo. For them, it is just way more profitable and they, most likely, have already understood this. That is why everything is going this way.

----------


## Shen

> I'm partially agree with you. When we think again, Damian's act and frustration is understandable. He's teenager, who just see that his father is not the embodiment of living god he always think. I love prison arc (Terminus Agenda is just so good, really I will give anything to Priest if he writes Damian again, preferably without his obsession to make Deathstroke as Damian's secret dad), kinda okay mind-wiping arc, Lobo arc is also okay, The Other arc is disappointing, Djinn war is just big meh, and I loathe the fact that on Thompson run he tried to make his team join him to murder villains. I have no problem with him kills again or kill in period, but still, he felt responsible for Emiko when she killed Deathstroke for his sake, at least he knew that not everyone will be on board with his murder way, even though he thought that it's the best way. I also agree with you that him ripped Robin badge is just so powerful and I practically cheered when he said that he's finally free to forge his own way, not Batman's way or Al Ghul's way. Him becoming Robin again with such 3 issues story, not to mention with him following Bruce's past track is just undermine his rightful anger. I am one of few people who want Damian moved from Robin title (even though I still think he's too young to fend on his own), because on past years seems like DC just forget that Damian is Robin, with him absent from his role as Batman sidekick, and so I feel like Damian is really detached from Robin title even before TT was a thing. Oh also even though I don't hate the book, I dropped DCeased as soon as I saw a panel that said that Damian is not as emotionally constipated as Bruce, because Lois and Jon 'raised' him. Gee, so it's Alfred's fault that Bruce became emotionally constipated until his death? Good for other Damian fans, but Damian who doesn't struggle to connect with people and without overconfidence attitude like kitten puffing its fur to stranger is not my Damian. Damian who hug and smile easily and can perfectly empathized with other people is just feel....wrong. 
> 
> BUT, I also agree with @CPSparkles, that book is created to hurt Damian. I don't think they want the reader to sympathized with Damian, because if that's the case, they will not victimized others that much. I mean, they had their fair share of fault for at least mind wiping arc but what did we got? Boo hoo Wallace actually didn't agree but Thawne manipulate him, Emiko got hurt because of Damian, Djinn suddenly was manipulated by Damian, Crush lost her girlfriend and somehow she directed that anger only to Damian and become all buddy buddy with Roundhouse who imprison Djinn on the first place, and Roundhouse you gross big blue of moldy cheese ball(I hate cheese btw), yes you are truly fungus at its final form, what do you mean Damian ruined Teen Titans for you? He's the one who fricking built it, you are the one who fricking betrayed team, and if I remember correctly did you enter the team so you can have revenge on Damian? Also we didn't see his inner turmoil or something to make readers sympathized with him. The books only shows his arrogance of his own way, and as much as I like Damian's overconfidence attitude, his arrogance will not make reader empathize with him. And this is double painful for us, because we know him, we can sympathize with him, but other people who barely know Damian cannot, and we can't blame them if they hate Damian because of that books.
> 
> Not to mention the story-telling except on terminus agenda is just plain mess. Oh on this issue we know that Jason mentored Damian, but then 2 issues later Damian thought that Jason betrayed him, confronted him, blackmailed him with the damned mysterious box that we don't know the meaning and maybe we never will, but that was so important for Jason because even Alfred said that Damian resembled Ra's Al Ghul for taking that box. That, and the lack of their interaction to build trust or something clearly painted Damian as one sided aggressor who tried to beat up poor innocent man (and failed, to sprinkle salt on the wound). Emiko joined Damian's team because she had a beef with The Other as well, but when she finally met him, she has no notable response. Djinn war arc and conclusion is just plain bad, and why they mention that Elias knew Damian but then never mentioned it again? To prove that he's such a demon boy? Crush joined Damian's team for her chains, but then she achieved in on one issue, with Djinn nonetheless. Emiko and Wallace romance came out of nowhere, the revelation is practically in hell. Even until now we don't know if Damian killed Brother Blood or not, and I bet that we will never know what Damian wrote to Jon because the books is just that bad and that unsatisfying at storytelling. 
> 
> So my conclusion is, even though I didn't completely hate it, if DC retconned that book you will not see me complaining. Preferably DC retcon the book except Terminus Agenda arc and TT annual #2.


Y'know I was going to write my own rant, but this is basically how I also feel about everything. There were soo many things that didn't make sense in TT that I stopped paying attention to the overall story and just read it to see how far they'd go to mess with Damian. 

I hate how they blame the mind-wipe on him, especially since they only started doing it after the whole team found out. Oh, and Emi in this book was a mess.

----------


## Astralabius

> Actually you know what it feels like, it feels a lot like the Tom King City of Bane Alfred Death. If you aren’t aware King meant for the Death to be a fake out and that either it was clay face or it was all a scarecrow fear has trick showing Damian his worst fear but someone on the editorial level liked the idea so it was changed that Alfred really did die. 
> 
> Here it feels like Damian was being set up as the obvious red herring for the murder and then it was switched half way through that he did do it but they didn’t have time to change the art or something. That’s what it’s starting to feel like to me, but that’s just unsubstantiated theory so don’t take too much what I said at face value.


I get where you're coming from because spoiling who the killer is on the first cover made me scratch my head too, but I don't think they ever planned for Damian not to be the killer. For the simply reason that the arc where Damian kills again was already the changed plan. Before 5G and a lot of other plans got scrapped the annual would have been after the Djinn War arc and Damian wouldn't have been in the book afterwards. But plans changed, the annual got pushed back and they inserted an arc that finalized Damian's character assassination in Teen Titans.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Y'know I was going to write my own rant, but this is basically how I also feel about everything. There were soo many things that didn't make sense in TT that I stopped paying attention to the overall story and just read it to see how far they'd go to mess with Damian. 
> 
> I hate how they blame the mind-wipe on him, especially since they only started doing it after the whole team found out. Oh, and Emi in this book was a mess.


At fist I was like "huh, what rant?" then I see again my post, and wow, did I really write that long hahaha. It's fine, ranting is good for health. For me I think Glass has many good idea, but the execution is just suck. Every conclusion on that books were not satisfying at all, except Terminus Agenda for me. 

And yes, that book trashed Emiko so much. Actually that book trashed 3 core member a.k.a Damian, Wallace, and Emiko but Wallace has Thawne and his mumbo jumbo retcon and at least Damian already has dedicated fanbase and we can ignore the book if we want to. But Emiko is still considered new character, and TT run portray her as someone who only follow the boys, at first Damian and then Wallace. Poor her..

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> Y'know I was going to write my own rant, but this is basically how I also feel about everything. There were soo many things that didn't make sense in TT that I stopped paying attention to the overall story and just read it to see how far they'd go to mess with Damian. 
> 
> I hate how they blame the mind-wipe on him, especially since they only started doing it after the whole team found out. Oh, and Emi in this book was a mess.


I blame Djinn and only Djinn. She's supposed to be an ancient wise being but decided to go alone with mind-wiping knowing it would backfire.

----------


## Blue22

You know it's kinda funny that the general consensus here seems to be that Emiko was fucked over by this run. I actually thought she was one of the few likable characters. I went from not giving the slightest of fucks to genuinely liking her lol

Djinn and Emiko are pretty much the only characters in Glass' TT that I like. I'd say Crush too but I'm always so...back and forth on her. At her best, she's a really good character. But at her worst, she's almost as annoying as Roundhouse.

----------


## Jackalope89

> You know it's kinda funny that the general consensus here seems to be that Emiko was fucked over by this run. I actually thought she was one of the few likable characters. I went from not giving the slightest of fucks to genuinely liking her lol
> 
> Djinn and Emiko are pretty much the only characters in Glass' TT that I like. I'd say Crush too but I'm always so...back and forth on her. At her best, she's a really good character. But at her worst, she's almost as annoying as Roundhouse.


I can think of half a dozen better directions with Crush, some of which involve her interactions with Lobo, than what Glass did. Roundhouse, I can go either way on. Emiko may have "killed" Slade (who ends up alive in another book anyway), but she actually had decent character in the story. Even immediately distancing herself from the other Titans after shooting Slade. Djinn, some of the things do make you scratch your head. But overall, an interesting character (though the end of her arc was abrupt and unsatisfying). Damian, ugh. Wallace, just, why?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again (even if a certain poster on here hates Jon/Super Sons); put Damian on a team with Maya, Colin, (kid) Jon, Kathy, Wally's kids, and perhaps a couple others. That way, while he gets along with most of them without having to "prove" himself, and the author can't use "no one would stand up to him" because most of them have and do without breaking their friendship with him.

----------


## Grandmaster_J

> I blame Djinn and only Djinn. She's supposed to be an ancient wise being but decided to go alone with mind-wiping knowing it would backfire.


And blamed Damian for it despite her willingly participation. Then leaves the team; there by excluding herself from any fault, and cleaning up the mess she helped create. The ending to her story was awful, and I don't know why she gets a pass when it's talked about what better things could've came from, Glass. (Rhyming accidentally)

----------


## Shen

I always talk about Emiko because the change in her personality is very noticeable, compared to what it was before the run started. I did like her in some parts of TT, I just didn't like how they squandered her and all these other characters and their potential. 

At first I liked Djinn, but then she became this helpless damsel in distress with no ability to think for herself, and I just saw her as a Raven wannabe.

They could have been written better, and I understand that everything changed because of 5G, but the comics just felt too rushed and off paced. Damian giving up Robin was the goal of this run from the outset, but the journey the team went on should have been better scripted than this.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I was out for the last week, did Damian showed up in some comic?

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> I was out for the last week, did Damian showed up in some comic?


detective comics

----------


## the1&onlyE.

Does anyone has any guess of in what book Damian will be at in 2021? I think it's a little bit too early to tell and it really depends on how Detective Comic's arc will end, but this is something I've been wondering!

----------


## Digifiend

Hard to say, since we don't know what new books are coming in March and April.

----------


## Astralabius

I'm not gonna spoil anything in case someone seriously still wants to read Teen Titans, but I just saw the last two pages and the only thing I can say is: Screw you too Dick.

----------


## Restingvoice

> I'm not gonna spoil anything in case someone seriously still wants to read Teen Titans, but I just saw the last two pages and the only thing I can say is: Screw you too Dick.


I think that deserves to be spoiled

Not that I care

----------


## Morgoth

I would not say that there was something terrible on those pages, although I didn’t see the whole issue, maybe I’m missing something.
Upd. It was surprising outcome with Damian's letter and his plan, to be honest. And in principle, probably more proof that the plans for the anti-hero / villain were canceled. I would even say that they left the opportunity here for his return to the team someday, though this time under Dick's supervision.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I'm not gonna spoil anything in case someone seriously still wants to read Teen Titans, but I just saw the last two pages and the only thing I can say is: Screw you too Dick.


Don't bash Dick for what he said and did on TT. He's just went amnesic, then when he came back he got note from Damian, and looks like his little brother entrusted them to him. The only chance he can know and assess the situation is only from Damian's note, and we don't know what was written on there (and also on Jon's note, which is frustrating. I mean, if they want to make a plot about Damian controlled people around him with some pieces of paper, can we at least know what was on the paper?). By no means Dick said that Damian is bad on Teen Titans, probably Damian said that he forced TT members on his note, or maybe he recalled the time when Damian kidnapped Kory, Beast Boy, and Raven to make TT. 




> And that remind me of something. Look guys, I loves Damian with Dick as much as you all. I love their connection, and their strong brothership borderline father-son relationship at some point. I love and heavily adore Dick who accept Damian as he is to be his Robin, all his effort to change Damian toward goodness, and his genuine love for Damian. But we can't count on Dick to be Damian's moral support right now. We can't just hope Dick will take Damian on his wing after his collision with Bruce, understand his actions and feelings, just expect him to accept Damian's actions. Dick is not family's private therapist. Heck he didn't even as bubbly and as patient like fandom often portrayed. He has his own morality, and that morality for sure disagree with all Damian's act. Besides, one of Damian's method in this terrible run is mind-wiping, and on Ric saga, which is equally terrible if not more, he got amnesic, lose his basic self, and has been brainwashing 3 times (Scarecrow, Court of Owl, and Joker). Honestly I can't see how Dick will accept and handle all Damian did in TT run without disregarding his own trauma after Ric saga. If somehow that happened, then Dc is adamant to make Dick Holy Saint or something.
> 
> Damian's problem is started with Bruce and has to end by Bruce. I love Damian but I also love Dick, so I don't want Dick to get roped into Damian and Bruce's mess, especially just after he gets his life back. It's like the time when people expect Dick to handle Jason's trauma, which is sadly I've encountered many of them. On Morrison run people want Dick to handle Jason's trauma and murderous rampage with power of love and family, and became angry when Dickbats put Jason in Arkham Asylum instead (which is actually a reasonable act on his capability as someone who tried to fill Bruce's presence on the cowl. 
> 
> On this thread, people's expectation for Dick to somehow fix Damian is honestly makes me wary, I am just afraid if Dick has negative response for Damian's act (which is understandable with his morality and after all the shit he went through), people will get heartbroken and turn to hate Dick instead.


And I've said it before, don't count on Dick to bring Damian back or somehow fix Damian's problem. Damian is Bruce's responsibilities, and Dick just healed from his amnesic. Dick needs to sort his own life back first.

----------


## Astralabius

> Don't bash Dick for what he said and did on TT. He's just went amnesic, then when he came back he got note from Damian, and looks like his little brother entrusted them to him. The only chance he can know and assess the situation is only from Damian's note, and we don't know what was written on there (and also on Jon's note, which is frustrating. I mean, if they want to make a plot about Damian controlled people around him with some pieces of paper, can we at least know what was on the paper?). By no means Dick said that Damian is bad on Teen Titans, probably Damian said that he forced TT members on his note, or maybe he recalled the time when Damian kidnapped Kory, Beast Boy, and Raven to make TT.


I think I can decide for myself how I feel about what Dick said. I was disappointed. I'm pretty tired of Thompson putting Damian down every given opportunity to prop up other characters, I don't care if it's the team or Dick.

----------


## Astralabius

> I would not say that there was something terrible on those pages, although I didn’t see the whole issue, maybe I’m missing something.
> Upd. It was surprising outcome with Damian's letter and his plan, to be honest. And in principle, probably more proof that the plans for the anti-hero / villain were canceled. I would even say that they left the opportunity here for his return to the team someday, though this time under Dick's supervision.


I hope not, I have no desire to see Damian with the Teen Titans ever again.

----------


## Blue22

Yeeeeeeah so I actually did enjoy most of this issue (though I really don't like how this series has been a lot better since Damian left). But I did kinda take issue with that one line from Dick. "I'm not Damian. I won't force you to do anything you don't want to". As if these guys weren't doing everything of their own free will. The way this run treated Damian like he was the one and only bad guy already rubbed me the wrong way. But to hear this coming from Dick, of all people....That's just annoying.

And I doubt Damian lied to Dick in that letter or anything like that. They've very much been pushing this "now that the bad apple is gone, we can be heroes" narrative ever since he left. Hell they were pushing that *before* he left. Like the others weren't complicit in his wrongdoings. 

*Sigh* All that aside, this was actually a really good issue. I'm not gonna miss this book but it at least went out on a high-ish note. I'm actually kinda looking forward to seeing how these guys interact with the veteran Titans...well, most of them anyway. I still wish Roundhouse had died all the way back in the beginning with that nuke. But oh well. He's here to stay -___-




> I hope not, I have no desire to see Damian with the Teen Titans ever again.


Damian could do fine on a Titans book. He just..can't be the one calling the shots like he was in both runs. His time on Geoff Johns' Titans might have been short but I thought he was actually pretty good there. Same for the animated Titans movies.

----------


## Frontier

> Yeeeeeeah so I actually did enjoy most of this issue (though I really don't like how this series has been a lot better since Damian left). But I did kinda take issue with that one line from Dick. "I'm not Damian. I won't force you to do anything you don't want to". As if these guys weren't doing everything of their own free will. The way this run treated Damian like he was the one and only bad guy already rubbed me the wrong way. But to hear this coming from Dick, of all people....That's just annoying.
> 
> And I doubt Damian lied to Dick in that letter or anything like that. They've very much been pushing this "now that the bad apple is gone, we can be heroes" narrative ever since he left. Hell they were pushing that *before* he left. Like the others weren't complicit in his wrongdoings. 
> 
> *Sigh* All that aside, this was actually a really good issue. I'm not gonna miss this book but it at least went out on a high-ish note. I'm actually kinda looking forward to seeing how these guys interact with the veteran Titans...well, most of them anyway. I still wish Roundhouse had died all the way back in the beginning with that nuke. But oh well. He's here to stay -___-


It's just kind of sad how badly Damian's attempts with the Titans have ended up and how it's dragged his character down, when ironically it was a major point of character development for him in the animated movies (and his first real romance).

----------


## Blue22

> It's just kind of sad how badly Damian's attempts with the Titans have ended up and how it's dragged his character down, when ironically it was a major point of character development for him in the animated movies (*and his first real romance*).


Wasn't a huge fan of the last part but yeah, the movies showed Damian on a team like the Titans can definitely work. He's very much capable of cooperating with other people and even forming bonds with his teammates. It's just....when they try to put him front and center like they did in Percy and Glass' runs, they like to REALLY play up his "brat Robin" and "rebellious Robin" angle and kinda forget that he'd been growing into more than that since his resurrection. Though Glass does at least have him doing bad things with good intentions....so all of his development wasn't completely lost, I suppose. It's just a shame that this had to be the way things ended up for him. His friends (the Titans *and* Jon) are all moving on and doing better things without him. Growing as heroes without him. And he's stuck in this seemingly permanent black sheep role. He has to be the bad boy. He has to be the one that people call "baby Hitler". He has to be the one who gets the blame for how these Titans turned out, as if they were unwilling victims. It just...sucks.

----------


## Morgoth

At least there is hope that from March the direction will change and they will stop writing him like a little freak.

----------


## Journey

> It's just kind of sad how badly Damian's attempts with the Titans have ended up and how it's dragged his character down, when ironically it was a major point of character development for him in the animated movies (and his first real romance).


Ugh God I hated Damian and Raven! Though that could just be the OG BBRae fan in me being biased.

----------


## Frontier

I thought it was cute and actually developed well enough across those animated films, but that's just me  :Stick Out Tongue: .

----------


## Blue22

> Ugh God I hated Damian and Raven! Though that could just be the OG BBRae fan in me being biased.


Lol Im pretty much in the same boat. I definitely don't know if I hated it more because of the BBRae shipper in me or because it felt just as basic and predictable as Jon and Saturn Girl.

----------


## Frontier

> Lol Im pretty much in the same boat. I definitely don't know if I hated it more because of the BBRae shipper in me or because it felt just as basic and predictable as Jon and Saturn Girl.


I felt like it was much less obvious compared to that, but maybe I'm just giving it too much credit.

----------


## Journey

> Lol Im pretty much in the same boat. I definitely don't know if I hated it more because of the BBRae shipper in me or because it felt just as basic and predictable as Jon and Saturn Girl.


Well in all fairness it had a lot of development in the movies I will give it that and from a strictly personal stance they fit together well, but BBRae has been my shit for years and BB was right there so I was just naturally disgusted Lmao! Jon and off brand Jean are just completely left field and at the same time predictably basic with nothing of substance bringing them together other than Bendis's whims.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Wasn't a huge fan of the last part but yeah, the movies showed Damian on a team like the Titans can definitely work. He's very much capable of cooperating with other people and even forming bonds with his teammates. It's just....when they try to put him front and center like they did in Percy and Glass' runs, they like to REALLY play up his "brat Robin" and "rebellious Robin" angle and kinda forget that he'd been growing into more than that since his resurrection. Though Glass does at least have him doing bad things with good intentions....so all of his development wasn't completely lost, I suppose. It's just a shame that this had to be the way things ended up for him. His friends (the Titans *and* Jon) are all moving on and doing better things without him. Growing as heroes without him. And he's stuck in this seemingly permanent black sheep role. He has to be the bad boy. He has to be the one that people call "baby Hitler". He has to be the one who gets the blame for how these Titans turned out, as if they were unwilling victims. It just...sucks.


The titans arent doing jack lol
Crush is finally bearable again without djinn around

----------


## Captain Britain of Earth 20

Damian is starting to grow on me (He took a girl on a date)using the Batmobile without permission way to go Red uh I mean Robin

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> Damian is starting to grow on me (He took a girl on a date)using the Batmobile without permission way to go Red uh I mean Robin


when did this happen?

----------


## Fergus

> I felt like it was much less obvious compared to that, but maybe I'm just giving it too much credit.


You are not. I wasn't expecting it. Don't think anyone was expecting Damian to come away from those movies with a romance that felt that organic and sweet.

Certainly not after TT v JL.

Damian and romance are two words that didn't go together in my mind till I saw it and now I'm a convert. Then again I've read either Rav and Damian in relationships so I was coming in without any bias or expectations.

I liked Percy's TT. Damian was anti social, bad at interpersonal relationships and his leadership/Team work needed a lot of work but I wasn't expecting anything less.

However I liked that he showed maturity even in a hostile team working environment. I liked that he handled Gar's pettiness with class and patience.

I liked that Kori could have easily taken the reins like Gar often suggested but decided to give Damian a chance.
I think that the fact he kept trying [even with Gar] and even put his own feelings/issues aside to welcome Jon to the team [something I'm sure he felt the rest of the team desired ]

He showed development under Percy but Glass was just a hit job sadly.

----------


## Fergus

> when did this happen?


Battle for the Cowl

----------


## Fergus

> The titans aren’t doing jack lol
> Crush is finally bearable again without djinn around


Djinn did bring out the worst in Crush. Making her violent.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I thought it was cute and actually developed well enough across those animated films, but that's just me .


Not just you, I also kinda like it on animated universe. But yeah, in comic world that pairing simply don't work for me

----------


## Light of Justice

> Djinn did bring out the worst in Crush. Making her violent.


Djinn and Crush relationship is kinda toxic for me. Like when Djinn concealed Crush's true face with magic so they will look like 'normal girl'

----------


## Light of Justice

> I hope not, I have no desire to see Damian with the Teen Titans ever again.


You and me both.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Djinn and Crush relationship is kinda toxic for me. Like when Djinn concealed Crush's true face with magic so they will look like 'normal girl'


She did that so they could disguise themselves, it was not meant to hurt crush
Crush, however got so aggressive and possessive the minute she noticed djinn showing intrest in Damian. The whole thing was a mess.

----------


## Light of Justice

> She did that so they could disguise themselves, it was not meant to hurt crush
> Crush, however got so aggressive and possessive the minute she noticed djinn showing intrest in Damian. The whole thing was a mess.


I think there's an issue when they just hung out on restaurant (not mission related) and Djinn concealed them then when Crush knew it, she became kinda annoyed. Like, they're not criminal, why they must concealed themselves?
But yeah, Crush before and after Djinn went is really different, almost like different person, which is understandable considering Crush without Djinn is written by Thompson, not Glass

----------


## Rac7d*

> I think there's an issue when they just hung out on restaurant (not mission related) and Djinn concealed them then when Crush knew it, she became kinda annoyed. Like, they're not criminal, why they must concealed themselves?
> But yeah, Crush before and after Djinn went is really different, almost like different person, which is understandable considering Crush without Djinn is written by Thompson, not Glass


So we dont get much commentary on this in comics anymore but people like Gar, beastboy  Crush,   Lagoon boy, walk around and are heroes but get varying reactions from people. Gar use to be just a green kid, now he's more beast like, but is still a personality/celbrity as he was in the 80s.  I recall a pognant scene from young jsutice, when Lagoon boy has saved  some children hostages, the kids reel back and then run and hug robin instead. There is a whole c plot on creatures an alien who live on earth disguised to get by in young justice.

Djinn is ashamed of how she or Crush looks, but she probably know how they appear does not keep people at ease and can dran unwanted attention.

----------


## CPSparkles

> That's utter nonsense. 
> 
> Damian in Glass teen Titans was extremely relatable as a confused youth who had been used as child soldier by his own parents all his life and was struggling to find a way he felt worked to stop the criminals who keep destroying lives around him. He aligned with Red Hood - someone he had beaten before because he had taken him by surprise - and strapped bomb to himself because he knew it give Jason pause if need be and had nothing of those toxic implications US readers love to see everytime someone isn't entirely from European descent (which is one of you guys problems : your multi-culturalism sucks because it keeps creating walls between people by creating communities instead of forging a nation but it isnt really here nor there)).
> 
> And of course he'd lean more toward the al'ghul teachings because his father's led to the destruction not only of a whole planet but of plenty of innocent peoples because Batman can't prevent the likes of Joker, Black Mask and all from killing untold numbers of peoples. Damian deciding that enough is enough was one of the most heroic things he did, and struggling to try and find the best way to achieve true peace for the peoples of Gotham. He did mistakes of course, but they were born og the best intentions.
> 
> And his team was dysfunctional because his father never even tried to make him get out of his child-soldier mindset. If Batman had truly wanted his son to be normal, he should have barred him entirely from the vigilante business and force him to be just a student in Gotham Academy or something like that. Because then he'd have had to interact with normal kids (mostly) and had to develop a life outside of the war on crime. Instead, Bruce felt it was a great idea to just put him in a Robin costume and call it a day since he barely had to train him at all to make him able to fight alone. Of course he doesn't know how to make a team work, he was never trained to be! With his mother he was trained to rule, it was kill or be killed. With Batman it was obey his every order and that's it! He does what he has been told to do, to command and expects others to obey like they do his fathers. It's not a mistake, it's not even a real flaw. It's the result of what has been his life up until this point.
> 
> And I love Damian as this cold and brutal vigilante who sometimes need to be reined in. And him lashing out at Batman and tearing away the R from his chest was one of his best and strongest moments, because for the first time ever, he got to decide who he was, by himself and for himself. Not to satisfy the ambitions of his mother or his father. To decide who Damian the teenager is, what he wants and what he believe in. 
> ...


so much to unpack here but here goes:

Relatable is subjective. We didn't even get what Damian's motivations for his actions were. Go ahead and tell me the concrete reason given for Damian's actions and what were his motivating thoughts as he escalated his methods?

Damian hasn't just beaten Jason but he totally eclipses Jason when it comes to smarts, tactics, tech and every single skill we saw him employ in TT.
Damian was ruining his own covert squad before age 10. He is more lethal and as we saw his plans for a permanent solution to crime in TT were on a whole different league to Jason's rubber bullets in gun tech that Jason has been working for the last how long.

Damian had NOTHING to learn from Jason and would find the idea of someone he doesn't even rate as anything as a loser offering to help him. That was occ and hence why we never got any details because there is nothing that Jason can teach Damian.

You shouldn't label people buddy or make assumptions. I'm from Manchester UK so don't know what exactly you are implying but wrong continent. 
What I find toxic is that the issue before we get the Damian strapping bombs to himself. Glass had Alfred [who we just saw in King's Batman mocking and taunting a crying penguin in Batman's own illegal ass jail]Say that Damian was acting not like a Wayne but that he was all Al Ghul like Ra's.

Yah dis avow the jewish side and blame it all on the Al Ghul side for the up coming negative Middle Eastern stereotype enforcing that's about to be un loaded on us. 

the ironic thing is that Damian was very much acting like a Wayne in the Glass TT run. 100% All his father's bad habits and negative tendencies were in full effect.

The lack of trust, the using people as tools, the disregard for human rights, the whole acting like he knows better than anyone else, the punishment not fitting the crime, excessive force, lying, double standards, endangering others. Leaving KGB for dead.
Never leaving a man down, picking fights that look like he has no chance, taking on far more powerful foes and taking on the impossible. Putting himself through torture and risking his life for others even those who are against you. 

These are all Bruce Wayne traits, methods and practises. So NOPE Damian was just doubling down on his Wayne tendencies not the Al Ghul.

[The brain washing is more JL]

Now I'm not saying that Damian didn't develop or grow during the run. he did. He learnt how to recruit TM's, he learnt that he's good with people so he's delegating to Emi.
He tried it his own way which proves that inside Damian is more like his father than we ever knew.

I'm not saying that there was no good things. Damian returning to Hell for a TM is the most heroic thing that any member of the Batfamily has ever done.

That is metal and Hardcore. That is a true hero. he's 13, already been to Hell, remembers every single day he spent there and yet he went back to save another person. That is mettle on a different level than I've read from any other hero. Ever!

That single issue moved Damian to my number no1 hero spot. dethroning Dick Grayson so yeah there were some good but most of it was negative.

The good there was wasn't also presented as good but left a bit veiled or written in a way that can be seen as negative.

The team been so toxic was down to Damian but more to do with the a'holes he had as tm's. Crush 
is abusive and jealous, Djinn was handsy and manipulative and RH is selfish, vindictive and not actually a hero.

They are fickle, have zero principles and in general have issues.

You say Tomasi made Damian the butt of the Joke in Supersons well so did Glass. How many times did Crush manhandle Damian?

I liked the moment Damian ripped off the Robin logo. I like that Damian didn't budge an inch on what he thought was right regardless of how wrong we know he is.

I liked that Damian went after KGB for what he did to Dick .

DC has a way of handwaving the batfamily closeness so I'm glad that there were stories showing how the family members who really care and have a current relationship with Dick actually did something to retaliate.

Damian is going back to Robin. That's to be expected. WB isn't about to sacrifice their 2nd most well known Robin. A successful Robin who is even more successful with the casuals than with the niche comic demo.

Not to mention that I can't see such a global company replacing a minority with another white middle class male from the burb's. [Heck even CW is attempting to race bend Tim for the Titans]

Damian was always going back to Robin. I know some behind the scenes tried really hard to undermine the character which was what i believe Glass was supposed to do.

I don't view Damian going back to Robin as weak since I don't actually know what the disagreement with Bruce was.

The JL losing a planet
The Refugee place getting destroyed
Bruce sending him into Gotham and thereby causing Alfred's death
Bruce letting him be the fall Guy for his bad decisions during City of Bane
Bruce jumping out of the Shadows at Dick thereby making his amnesia worse
Dick forgetting him
His father using him as bait and a meat shield
his father neglecting him while fussing over a starfish

I don't know what the reason for their current beef is but Damian coming back after failing to find a permanent solution to crime that's doesn't make him judge/juror and executioner.

Is okay. It's manly and grown up. Those are big boy problem that face every hero and nation in the world. There is no way of stopping crime permanently. Only fools and bad dictators believe that's possible. So Damian realising this and also realising that he doesn't have the right to deny others their rights is a major growth.

----------


## CPSparkles

Did You all here about Grant Morrison coming out as non-Binary?

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> Did You all here about Grant Morrison coming out as non-Binary?


yeah I read about it.

----------


## AmiMizuno

With Dick back I wonder if he can help Damian.

----------


## CPSparkles

> With Dick back I wonder if he can help Damian.


Damian shouldn't be Dick's responsibility honestly.
Bruce should step up plus Dick has just been through a very traumatic experience and is in the process of sorting his life out.

I don't think Dick should be taking on extra responsibilities or other people's responsibilities.

This is on Bruce. he enjoys taking in other peoples kids and putting them to work. Well it's time for him to put in some work raising his own kid.

----------


## CPSparkles

> yeah I read about it.


It was surprising but also not at the same time. Congrats to them for being able to come forward and be real about who they are.

I found their interview very compelling.

----------


## Light of Justice

> so much to unpack here but here goes:
> 
> Relatable is subjective. We didn't even get what Damian's motivations for his actions were. Go ahead and tell me the concrete reason given for Damian's actions and what were his motivating thoughts as he escalated his methods?
> 
> Damian hasn't just beaten Jason but he totally eclipses Jason when it comes to smarts, tactics, tech and every single skill we saw him employ in TT.
> Damian was ruining his own covert squad before age 10. He is more lethal and as we saw his plans for a permanent solution to crime in TT were on a whole different league to Jason's rubber bullets in gun tech that Jason has been working for the last how long.
> 
> Damian had NOTHING to learn from Jason and would find the idea of someone he doesn't even rate as anything as a loser offering to help him. That was occ and hence why we never got any details because there is nothing that Jason can teach Damian.
> 
> ...


My memories about current TT is kinda fuzzy and I refused to re-read it again, but there's some things that I think I have different perspective to take it than majority of reader, like:

1. Jason as Damian's mentor. Sure, he taught Damian to stole Bruce's money (which is weird because Damian is already rich without his father's money) but just like you said, he didn't teach Damian anything about crimefighting, he only gave Damian information about villains who work under The Other. How did Jason know that? Well, perhaps because his past status as druglord gave him some connection, besides I think he watched over underground shift of power. Something that honestly cannot be done by 13 years old wearing bright costume, no matter how competent he is. So for me Damian Jason stint on TT is not mentor and disciple, but more like informant and employee, and their break up is because Damian thought that Jason betrayed him by giving him information who almost made him and TT get killed. Damian chose Jason as his mentor is OOC indeed, but him using Jason as his informant certainly is not. 

2. Alfred called Damian Ra's Al Ghul. If I remembered correctly, Damian Jason fight happened before the team learned about the secret prison existence, so the only crime Damian has when he met Alfred is about secret prison. We all agree that Alfred calling Damian for secret prison is huge hypocrite on Alfred's part. But looks like Alfred also know how important Jason's mysterious box is and what will Damian do with it. So maybe Alfred called Damian Ra's Al Ghul because Damian wanted to blackmail his own family. Blackmail is not one of jerk acts that Batman ever done (I think?) but Ra's kinda blackmailed his children once in a while.

 I also want some information about Damian's time on hell, too. On Djinn arc it implied that Elias knows Damian before but we didn't get any explanation, just like Jason's mysterious box, those letters, argh

If I had to describe TT books without my bias to Damian, the word I will use is 'unsatisfying'.

I've heard a leak say that Damian will be Robin again, but the sources cannot be trusted. Which is sad because the sources also said about Jon will get de-aged.

----------


## Grandmaster_J

> The team been so toxic was down to Damian but more to do with the a'holes he had as tm's. Crush 
> is abusive and jealous, Djinn was handsy and manipulative and RH is selfish, vindictive and not actually a hero.
> 
> They are fickle, have zero principles and in general have issues.


Which only still falls back on Damian for choosing them knowing all 3 were new to the hero game, and inexperienced. He was prepared to accept responsibility should any of them messed up, specifically R.H. 

Djinn - A 4000 year old genie that was used as a weapon for evil deeds for centuries
Crush - An orphaned half Czarnian raised by drug addicts, and was found in an underground fight club
R.H. - A smart, isolated, irrational thinking teen overwhelmed with survivors guilt. 

I didn't considered them a holes but giving their origins their personalities were definitely not going to be the nicest in the world. 

So the dysfunction was gonna, and should have happened. The one thing every member had in common was that they had issues which was cleverly written addressed in issues 23-24. 




> You say Tomasi made Damian the butt of the Joke in Supersons well so did Glass. How many times did Crush manhandle Damian?


She only manhandled him knowingly once; but then again she has all the male members at least once or twice. That was pretty her whole shtick of being the tough lez girl. Damian wasn't exclusive in that regard.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Which only still falls back on Damian for choosing them knowing all 3 were new to the hero game, and inexperienced. He was prepared to accept responsibility should any of them messed up, specifically R.H. 
> 
> Djinn - A 4000 year old genie that was used as a weapon for evil deeds for centuries
> Crush - An orphaned half Czarnian raised by drug addicts, and was found in an underground fight club
> R.H. - A smart but irrational thinking teen overwhelmed with survivors guilt. 
> 
> I didn't considered them a holes but giving their origins their personalities were definitely not going to be the nicest in the world. 
> 
> So the dysfunction was gonna, and should have happened. The one thing every member had in common was that they had issues which was cleverly written addressed in issues 23-24. 
> ...


And it good on Damian for being so open minding and tolerant that he decided to give them a chance. That shows character and the kid never once complained about them. no he took on and accepted them faults and all.
I am not Damian and to me they are a holes. I am the one complaining not Damian. I get why they are the way they are but understanding doesn't =liking if it were then characters like Damian would be beloved.


She manhandled him more than once. Knowingly or not doesn't matter and we are not talking about the other tm we are talking about Damian. The character I care about and therefore the one whose writing affects me the most emotionally.

I didn't appreciate the tough 'lez' girl stereotype one bit. Something about Crush's writing bugged me and now that you say that. That's what was off. She was a stereotype of the butchy militant/hard lesbian.

The team were a'holes objectively since they went along with everything and then later turned on Damian. They were ARSEHOLES.

No, sorry they ARE SPINELESS ARSEHOLES.

----------


## CPSparkles

> My memories about current TT is kinda fuzzy and I refused to re-read it again, but there's some things that I think I have different perspective to take it than majority of reader, like:
> 
> 1. Jason as Damian's mentor. Sure, he taught Damian to stole Bruce's money (which is weird because Damian is already rich without his father's money) but just like you said, he didn't teach Damian anything about crimefighting, he only gave Damian information about villains who work under The Other. How did Jason know that? Well, perhaps because his past status as druglord gave him some connection, besides I think he watched over underground shift of power. Something that honestly cannot be done by 13 years old wearing bright costume, no matter how competent he is. So for me Damian Jason stint on TT is not mentor and disciple, but more like informant and employee, and their break up is because Damian thought that Jason betrayed him by giving him information who almost made him and TT get killed. Damian chose Jason as his mentor is OOC indeed, but him using Jason as his informant certainly is not. 
> 
> 2. Alfred called Damian Ra's Al Ghul. If I remembered correctly, Damian Jason fight happened before the team learned about the secret prison existence, so the only crime Damian has when he met Alfred is about secret prison. We all agree that Alfred calling Damian for secret prison is huge hypocrite on Alfred's part. But looks like Alfred also know how important Jason's mysterious box is and what will Damian do with it. So maybe Alfred called Damian Ra's Al Ghul because Damian wanted to blackmail his own family. Blackmail is not one of jerk acts that Batman ever done (I think?) but Ra's kinda blackmailed his children once in a while.
> 
>  I also want some information about Damian's time on hell, too. On Djinn arc it implied that Elias knows Damian before but we didn't get any explanation, just like Jason's mysterious box, those letters, argh
> 
> If I had to describe TT books without my bias to Damian, the word I will use is 'unsatisfying'.
> ...


I saw those leaks and I don't believe them but that's not why I say Damian will go back to Robin [he never actually stopped being Robin]

I say that because 
1, Damian is far more successful than Tim as Robin and WB is a business so the money influences the decision.
2, DC doesn't decide who gets to be Robin officially. Robin's value comes from outside the comics

Damian isn't going anywhere especially when DC and WB are investing so much in his generation.

I didn't like the Djinn arc but I liked that Damian went back to Hell for a tm after his past experiences. I think the reveal that Damian went to Hell was supposed to be a negative. To demonise him but for me it's a positive and compelling thing.

This 10 year old went to hell and he's ready to go back to save another. That doesn't make him a monster that makes him a selfless soul and a Hero.

The whole use of Jason was ill advised and made no sense. It was a dud and all it did was implicate Jason in this whole mess. It made him look like a petty corrupter of innocents.

Bruce gives you a beating and then you proceed to corrupt his 13 year old who then goes on to takeover your niche and do it better than you ever did in the 10 years you've been trying.

I was pissed that Glass just had Jason come on and beat Damian up but in the end the story wound up Damian taking over Jason's niche in the franchise and doing jason's job much better than Jason ever did. 

Ofcourse this was due to Priest and the Terminus Agenda which undermined what Glass did and showed why the idea of Damian needing Jason was rubbish. the intricated thought, design and planning being Damian's Terminus Agenda. The longterm planning of all his contingencies [which would have involved the recruitment of Djinn] puts Damian up there with the best.

It demonstrates just how Machiavellian he is but also makes him not just a really threat but a great actor. How much of his plans rested on Djinn when we think about makes him a master manipulator.

There was some good in the run but when you sit and think about it, the fact that so much was dependent on Djinn really makes the whole run read differently. It makes Damian really like a super villain and that moment where he recruits her becomes less adorable.

Man I wish we had Damian's inner thoughts.

The Terminus Agenda was a great deal of fun. Loved the rivalry between Damian and Slade and Slade trolling the ever living shit out of Damian was a high point of the run. 
Priest and Slade elevated the run however the vagueness of Damian's thought process and motivations ruins the whole thing.

Like I said before the part Djinn later goes on to play makes the fact that Damian recruited her so much more sinister. Did he target her on purpose for her powers and her ring? Did he recruit Crush because he knew about her lifestyle and used Djinn as bait thereby ensuring her loyalty? I might be over thinking but that's what happens when we aren't given proper motivations.

On Bruce and blackmail. Bruce does use blackmail all the time. Both physical and emotional. Remember what he did to Jason in his quest to bring Damian back?

What he did to Steph in order to motivate Tim to return?

What he's being doing to Dick Grayson for decades now? What he did to Frankenstein? Heck what he did to penguin in batman just a few issues before in Batman [the reason why he was locked up in Bruce's jail]

Bruce does use Blackmail.

----------


## Korath

If Damian returns to the Robin mantle, it'll also makes him one of the most pathetic characters ever written, and certainly the least deserving of the Robin title to ever have held it up. If he can throw it, tear it down and go all dramatic about it only to take it back as if nothing happened... I'm sorry but this character will be a sorry joke and DC would be well deserved to treat it as such. Throw him abck to Super Sons, have him be the pathetic piece of garbage he was in that book and starts him chosing to be called Ian in main continuity and whatever the hell peoples apparently want for this boy, because he won't be worth shit anymore.

----------


## Rac7d*

> If Damian returns to the Robin mantle, it'll also makes him one of the most pathetic characters ever written, and certainly the least deserving of the Robin title to ever have held it up. If he can throw it, tear it down and go all dramatic about it only to take it back as if nothing happened... I'm sorry but this character will be a sorry joke and DC would be well deserved to treat it as such. Throw him abck to Super Sons, have him be the pathetic piece of garbage he was in that book and starts him chosing to be called Ian in main continuity and whatever the hell peoples apparently want for this boy, because he won't be worth shit anymore.





There cant be another Robin right now. The way its been explored through Damian, prevent Bruce from ever having another child in the role.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> If Damian returns to the Robin mantle, it'll also makes him one of the most pathetic characters ever written, and certainly the least deserving of the Robin title to ever have held it up. If he can throw it, tear it down and go all dramatic about it only to take it back as if nothing happened... I'm sorry but this character will be a sorry joke and DC would be well deserved to treat it as such. Throw him abck to Super Sons, have him be the pathetic piece of garbage he was in that book and starts him chosing to be called Ian in main continuity and whatever the hell peoples apparently want for this boy, because he won't be worth shit anymore.


I understand where you're coming from, but I disagree. The thing is, Damian didn't stop being Robin to get more development in another mantle, or because he was supposed to take a new better identity. No, he lost it because of a stupid editorial decision to villainize him in a run that was a huge disrespect to his character. So, I really hope they erase this whole thing and, yes, put him back in Robin. If one day they want to transition him to another role for a good reason with respect, I will completely support it. But not like this, and definitely not the way it happened.

----------


## KrustyKid

> I understand where you're coming from, but I disagree. The thing is, Damian didn't stop being Robin to get more development in another mantle, or because he was supposed to take a new better identity. No, he lost it because of a stupid editorial decision to villainize him in a run that was a huge disrespect to his character. So, I really hope they erase this whole thing and, yes, put him back in Robin. If one day they want to transition him to another role for a good reason with respect, I will completely support it. But not like this, and definitely not the way it happened.


I see what you're saying from an editorial standpoint, I agree with you 100%. Honestly though all the Robin bros have suffered from bad writing. Ric/Dick, Pre-52 Jason had some bad arcs, and New-52 Tim was an OOC train wreck to say the least But what's done is done, if we're talking from an in story purpose then Korath has a point. Though I wouldn't say Damian would be pathetic for going back to being Robin, he would just come off as looking like someone who doesn't know what he wants/not knowing what path he wants to take in life. Honestly that is the opposite of Damian, of the Robin boys when that kid has his mind set on something he's going to see it through without any regrets or feeling the need to apologize to anyone who disagrees with him. That is one of Damian's defining traits, one of the top things I love about him.

Damian doing a 180 so soon and going back to Robin actually would hurt his character a bit given the makeup of his character.

Not everyone gets to transition to a new role the way we like it, only Dick got that luxury/it was his decision to make. Jason died on his way to Red Hood. Even then his revival didn't come until years later. Tim becoming Red Robin was a domino effect of the new Dynamic Duo/Dick+Damian with editorial at the time. Unlike Tim and Jason, at least it was Damian's 'choice' to stop being Robin, due to his vision of what justice should be. Gotta respect him for setting his own path, even if I don't agree.

----------


## KrustyKid

> My point is, Damian's journey up to this point whether it be good or bad should not be ignored, especially not a defining moment we just saw from Damian. The guy is literally choosing his own path, not one set by Ra's or Bruce, but his own. Damian's sense of justice clearly has some grey area (not to the extreme of his grandfather), another point that makes Damian quite compelling if handled right. Sorry to say but if he does a 180 and turns back to Robin two seconds later, it makes him look like a full fledged hypocrite.
> 
> 
> Before I actually give my opinion this just what one person had say to  Dc made a valiant attempt to* villainise* Damian but its just ended up making everyone else look like an hole because they are abandoning a clearly mentally unwell child (this could have all been solved had at least one of these fully grown adults checked up on him and gave him some support)
> 
> Also you point with other moot 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


1. First and foremost Damian is not a villain. His sense of 'justice' is merrily twisted to a grey area right now stemming from what many would assume started with the death of Alfred. We all know this won't last for long.

2. Damian's development was not removed, it has been a cycle of things that have lead him full circle on his mindset in regards to 'the' mission. He's in a bad place right now, that's what I chop it up to. 

Has there bad writing along the way leading Damian up to this point? No one is denying that. What I'm saying is Damian going back to Robin so suddenly without a resolving arc for his inner self would be ooc as heck. I would chop that up as bad writing. Questionable writing brought him to this point, again.. you can still have good writing to bring him back to team bat.

----------


## CPSparkles

> If Damian returns to the Robin mantle, it'll also makes him one of the most pathetic characters ever written, and certainly the least deserving of the Robin title to ever have held it up. If he can throw it, tear it down and go all dramatic about it only to take it back as if nothing happened... I'm sorry but this character will be a sorry joke and DC would be well deserved to treat it as such. Throw him abck to Super Sons, have him be the pathetic piece of garbage he was in that book and starts him chosing to be called Ian in main continuity and whatever the hell peoples apparently want for this boy, because he won't be worth shit anymore.


you know who else quit Robin? Dick and Tim let's just stop all this. It's not like we haven't been here before.

This arc is nothing new. It only didn't happen with Jay and Steph because their tenures were too short. Damian isn't the only Robin to quit and return.

This will not hurt damian since fans know exactly what is going on and fans expect him to come back.

Fans are aware of the the behind the scenes struggles that some have been trying to undermine the character since Morrison left.

They are aware that Snyder tried to bury Damian for Duke and now Tynion is trying to do the same for Tim's sake so I think that fans will understand [well enough of them]

Even down the line, this isn't going to hurt Damian because like I said we don't have his thought process. TT's hurt Damian. Leaving and returning to Robin isn't going to.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> you know who else quit Robin? Dick and Tim let's just stop all this. It's not like we haven't been here before.
> 
> This arc is nothing new. It only didn't happen with Jay and Steph because their tenures were too short. Damian isn't the only Robin to quit and return.
> 
> This will not hurt damian since fans know exactly what is going on and fans expect him to come back.
> 
> Fans are aware of the the behind the scenes struggles that some have been trying to undermine the character since Morrison left.
> 
> They are aware that Snyder tried to bury Damian for Duke and now Tynion is trying to do the same for Tim's sake so I think that fans will understand [well enough of them]
> ...



But what does returning as Robin add to Damian's character growth? When Dick and Tim were written out of Robin both were attempts to make the character grow and move on. As poorly executed as the change may have been in TT, I see more opportunities to do something new with Damian when he's out of Robin than when he's returning to it.

----------


## Rac7d*

Detectives comics issue will resolve this for us next week?
Hopefully leads to a new direction for him
Is legion of superheroes cancelled or continuing on?

----------


## Korath

> I understand where you're coming from, but I disagree. The thing is, Damian didn't stop being Robin to get more development in another mantle, or because he was supposed to take a new better identity. No, he lost it because of a stupid editorial decision to villainize him in a run that was a huge disrespect to his character. So, I really hope they erase this whole thing and, yes, put him back in Robin. If one day they want to transition him to another role for a good reason with respect, I will completely support it. But not like this, and definitely not the way it happened.


That run was far more respectful of Damian than Super Sons ever was ! For fuck sake, for the first time ever, the kid got to decide who he wants to be ! He ! Not his mom, not his dad ! Damian's own choice ! And now, he's supposed to return like the good little puppy that he is, so he can go doing jack shit with Jon as his dumb and gruff partner, so he can be turned into an old sack unable to keep his bowel in control, or punched in the face ebcause he's suddenly too dumb to realize that he needs to be unconscious to not be tracked, or what have you ?

And, seriously ? What will being Robin do for Damian anyway ? He'll continue being put on teams except that he'l be taking orders and obeying only gruffingly ? Who will be endeared by it ? And when Batman will be more focused on pregnant Selina or whatever, if this horrible coupling isn't erased, what good will it make to Damian ? I bet he'll be the jealous and angry older brother who don't get thathaving a baby sister on the way is just wonderful. 

By dropping the Robin mantle the way he did, with those extremely strong words, he hadn't a tantrum. he made a statement. He doesn't want to be this person anymore. He doesn't want to play by anyone's but his own rules. it is extremely powerful and uplifting, because, even if Bruce wasn't as bad as Talia at that game, he still imposed a mindset and a behavior on his own son without giving back much love. Beyond the B&R by Tomasi early and final issues, Bruce hasn't demonstrated a great affection or even ability to truly relate to his son. 

Not every character gets to have a NTT to graduate. Some, like Damian, don't need to. Because he's strong enough as a character that he doesn't need the Robin mantle. He doesn't need the Titans or Batman anymore. WHat he needs is simply somone willing to write his story from his PoV, which is that both Talia's and Bruce's ways have failed big time. For fuck sake, Bruce's behavior led to the end of the Multiverse in Metal and Death-Metal ! Is he really supposed to follow in those footsteps ?

----------


## Grandmaster_J

> I get why they are the way they are but understanding doesn't =liking if it were then characters like Damian would be beloved. 
> 
> The team were a'holes objectively since they went along with everything and then later turned on Damian. They were ARSEHOLES.
> 
> No, sorry they ARE SPINELESS ARSEHOLES.


Hey not asking you to like em. I dislike Djinn as much as you do for goodness sake. Just saying that we're dealing with characters who are new, and weren't previously established like a Damian who's been around for years. Each joined for their own personal reasons, and Damian brought them together in his own words of "*not so hung up on the rules*" He wanted a team full of a'holes just like him. 

And they only turned on him only after finding out what he did to Brother Blood but then you turn and call them spineless for finally deciding to no longer follow his agenda ??? You can't have it both ways. Either they're a holes for blindly following, or for turning on him. Which neither action is the equivalent of the word , it's just what you want to label them excluding Damian, and that's fine you're allowed to be bias but if you're gonna call em a'holes then you should be calling the ENTIRE team such. That's what they were.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Detectives comics issue will resolve this for us next week?
> Hopefully leads to a new direction for him
> Is legion of superheroes cancelled or continuing on?


LOSH will be continued. And yes, if Tomasi is the only writer that will wrap up Damian's arc (I don't think many writers want to touch that mess), his arc will end on #1033, right before Future State.

----------


## Morgoth

> Detectives comics issue will resolve this for us next week?


Issues 1032-1033, that's where Damian is getting new suit and works alongside Bruce again to defeat Hush.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I saw those leaks and I don't believe them but that's not why I say Damian will go back to Robin [he never actually stopped being Robin]
> 
> I say that because 
> 1, Damian is far more successful than Tim as Robin and WB is a business so the money influences the decision.
> 2, DC doesn't decide who gets to be Robin officially. Robin's value comes from outside the comics
> 
> Damian isn't going anywhere especially when DC and WB are investing so much in his generation.


I will agree with you 3 months ago, but upcoming Gotham Knight has Tim as Robin. Titans show will have (black) Tim, probably as Robin too. Indeed WB are invested with him on DCAMU and Apokalips War is a huge success, but I don't see any push for Damian from them lately. Even Arkham Knight game get canceled. And I don't think DC is ever invested with Damian's generation. Damian maybe, but his generation? Not so much. Jon got age up and still in Legion, the rumor said that LOSH is still continued after Future State. They didn't gave Damian generation Wonder for ages, and it's still way too early to know Yara Flor and direction DC will take with her. Emiko and Wallace are shipped into Dick's Titans Academy. Jackson moved into Young Justice bunch, along with Tim's team. No Lantern.
On the other hand, along with Tim's upcoming exposure on game and show, Future State has Tim as Robin (Eternal). Young Justice is practically revives Tim's generation, and I will be surprised if Young Justice with main 4 Tim, Kon, Cassie, Bart will not be relaunched. Tynion handles Batman books now, and everyone know that he likes Tim and tried to bring Tim back as Robin. Current situation is not good for Damian's generation and seems like encourages Tim to be back as Robin, which is maybe for the best for the character (at least the Drake thing was over)




> The whole use of Jason was ill advised and made no sense. It was a dud and all it did was implicate Jason in this whole mess. It made him look like a petty corrupter of innocents.
> 
> Bruce gives you a beating and then you proceed to corrupt his 13 year old who then goes on to takeover your niche and do it better than you ever did in the 10 years you've been trying.
> 
> I was pissed that Glass just had Jason come on and beat Damian up but in the end the story wound up Damian taking over Jason's niche in the franchise and doing jason's job much better than Jason ever did.


Yeah indeed it's OOC for Jason's character, and kinda glad that Lobdell chose to ignore it entirely. Who know what direction they will take about Jason and Damian now, on TT book Jason searched for him but on Tec book, Jason acts like he doesn't know anything wrong (I'm like 80% sure it's an act). 




> Ofcourse this was due to Priest and the Terminus Agenda which undermined what Glass did and showed why the idea of Damian needing Jason was rubbish. the intricated thought, design and planning being Damian's Terminus Agenda. The longterm planning of all his contingencies [which would have involved the recruitment of Djinn] puts Damian up there with the best.
> 
> It demonstrates just how Machiavellian he is but also makes him not just a really threat but a great actor. How much of his plans rested on Djinn when we think about makes him a master manipulator.


Not gonna lie, actually I like that they try to bring Damian manipulative side, after all he's the son of two of the best manipulator on DC comics. That's why I like Terminus Agenda arc so much. Other writers like to portray him to act reckless, it's refreshing to see Damian actually in control on his surrounding. He leads his teams to Titans, Dick to accept them, predict that Jon would enter and make Jon abandon him maybe? Leave him alone? And he subtly engage Batman to chase him. 
Puberty Damian is terrifying.




> Man I wish we had Damian's inner thoughts.


Me too. Even on TT, his inner though is either too robotic (like when he said that his team don't talk to him outside mission but he brushed it off by saying that he create the team not to make friends), or just everything.....led.....to......this.....




> On Bruce and blackmail. Bruce does use blackmail all the time. Both physical and emotional. Remember what he did to Jason in his quest to bring Damian back?
> 
> What he did to Steph in order to motivate Tim to return?
> 
> What he's being doing to Dick Grayson for decades now? What he did to Frankenstein? Heck what he did to penguin in batman just a few issues before in Batman [the reason why he was locked up in Bruce's jail]
> 
> Bruce does use Blackmail.


Ah you're right. Well, another point of Alfred hypocrisy I guess.

----------


## CPSparkles

> But what does returning as Robin add to Damian's character growth? When Dick and Tim were written out of Robin both were attempts to make the character grow and move on. As poorly executed as the change may have been in TT, I see more opportunities to do something new with Damian when he's out of Robin than when he's returning to it.


The chance to be Robin next to Bruce.

Damian has never gotten the chance to be a sidekick next to Bruce in continuity because Snyder promptly replaced him with Duke.

We got Tomasi's Batman and robin but that wasn't about Batman and Robin. It was about father and son getting to know each other.

It was about family and exploring father and son adjusting to each other not the dynamic duo,

Stupid fans keep saying that Damian doesn't work as Bruce's partner because they judge their dynamic based on a title that's about something else.

Damian like ALL the Robins before him and the one that came after him [Duke and Jarro ] deserves the chance to be Robin without pretenders snapping at his feet/creators trying to undermine him.

I enjoyed the glimpse we got with Tomasi and Taylor on Tec. I enjoyed the glimpses we got on Superman and the lengthy arcs we got in out of continuity stuff like Batman v TMNt.

I want to see it Damian and Bruce work together as partner's for a decent amount of time as B&R I want to see how far their relationship has come and the duo in action.

that is what it adds to Damian's character. We get to see his tenure as Robin to Bruce's Batman. It so very basic and it's outrageous that we have never gotten that.

----------


## Rac7d*

> But what does returning as Robin add to Damian's character growth? When Dick and Tim were written out of Robin both were attempts to make the character grow and move on. As poorly executed as the change may have been in TT, I see more opportunities to do something new with Damian when he's out of Robin than when he's returning to it.


Tim didnt try anything, he added red to the title and has been flip flopping between identities so lets just not with him. DC is not ready to allow time to move forward with their world as a whole, sp its mot time for him to truly move on from Robin. The only thing damian has to walk away from is being a titan. which is fine. Look at beastboy hes been trapped as a boy for 50 years . Damian will leave the role permanently when the time is right, and that will be the day DC moves bruce from being batman, because he cant not authorize another Robin.

----------


## CPSparkles

> I will agree with you 3 months ago, but upcoming Gotham Knight has Tim as Robin. Titans show will have (black) Tim, probably as Robin too. Indeed WB are invested with him on DCAMU and Apokalips War is a huge success, but I don't see any push for Damian from them lately. Even Arkham Knight game get canceled. And I don't think DC is ever invested with Damian's generation. Damian maybe, but his generation? Not so much. Jon got age up and still in Legion, the rumor said that LOSH is still continued after Future State. They didn't gave Damian generation Wonder for ages, and it's still way too early to know Yara Flor and direction DC will take with her. Emiko and Wallace are shipped into Dick's Titans Academy. Jackson moved into Young Justice bunch, along with Tim's team. No Lantern.
> On the other hand, along with Tim's upcoming exposure on game and show, Future State has Tim as Robin (Eternal). Young Justice is practically revives Tim's generation, and I will be surprised if Young Justice with main 4 Tim, Kon, Cassie, Bart will not be relaunched. Tynion handles Batman books now, and everyone know that he likes Tim and tried to bring Tim back as Robin. Current situation is not good for Damian's generation and seems like encourages Tim to be back as Robin, which is maybe for the best for the character (at least the Drake thing was over)
> 
> 
> Yeah indeed it's OOC for Jason's character, and kinda glad that Lobdell chose to ignore it entirely. Who know what direction they will take about Jason and Damian now, on TT book Jason searched for him but on Tec book, Jason acts like he doesn't know anything wrong (I'm like 80% sure it's an act). 
> 
> 
> Not gonna lie, actually I like that they try to bring Damian manipulative side, after all he's the son of two of the best manipulator on DC comics. That's why I like Terminus Agenda arc so much. Other writers like to portray him to act reckless, it's refreshing to see Damian actually in control on his surrounding. He leads his teams to Titans, Dick to accept them, predict that Jon would enter and make Jon abandon him maybe? Leave him alone? And he subtly engage Batman to chase him. 
> Puberty Damian is terrifying.
> ...


Jarro is also Robin.

I'm not behind the scenes, just making rational assumptions based on the needs of a business.

WB's investment in Damian isn't the DCAMU

WB is invested on Damian's generation [Yara and Jon are about to get their intro to casuals]

Tim is the Robin that follows Jason so ofcourse he's after him in Titans although it is bothersome that they are looking for Black and Asian actors for the role [just one tome it'd be good for WB not to blend Tim with other Robins for casuals. Just present him as he is. No cons no lies]

YJ didn't revive that generation it proved that they are not worth Backing though I do agree that the team will most likely return in the comics [DC favours them above all other gens]

So what if Tim is in the new game and on Titans? The Robin in those games has always been Tim [not to mention that the game is heavily inspired by Tynions Tec Run]

Damian is in Injustice and HQ. 

When I say that I don't see Damian giving up Robin it doesn't mean that I expect Tim , Duke or any others to suddenly vanish. They all make money for dC./

Again this is just me.

----------


## CPSparkles

@LoghtofJustice, I do like manipulative Damian. I don't think Damian should ever be a goody good guy without shades of grey however the anti hero niche should be Jason's. I didn't like Damian stepping all over jason's toes in TT.

DC has a problem. The Robin's blend into each other.
Dick craved out a niche which they watered down Tim [at least they are really trying to]

Jason has managed to crave out a niche they shouldn't water that down.

The lack of sufficient inner dialogue was really irritating. Both with Damian on Tt and Batman in King's run.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Hey not asking you to like em. I dislike Djinn as much as you do for goodness sake. Just saying that we're dealing with characters who are new, and weren't previously established like a Damian who's been around for years. Each joined for their own personal reasons, and Damian brought them together in his own words of "*not so hung up on the rules*" He wanted a team full of a'holes just like him. 
> 
> And they only turned on him only after finding out what he did to Brother Blood but then you turn and call them spineless for finally deciding to no longer follow his agenda ??? You can't have it both ways. Either they're a holes for blindly following, or for turning on him. Which neither action is the equivalent of the word , it's just what you want to label them excluding Damian, and that's fine you're allowed to be bias but if you're gonna call em a'holes then you should be calling the ENTIRE team such. That's what they were.


I call them spineless because they lied about their involvement in the things that went on.

they went along with everything up to the killing of brother blood.

They are ALL responsible for the actions they willingly went along with.

Who said i was excluding Damian? Don't assume.
They are not Arseholes for blindly following him. They are arseholes because they read like arseholes. They are not fun to read which I know is subjective but that is what comments here are

They are spineless arseholes because they are now claiming to not have played a part on still remained on the team after finding out about the Jail.

I would say they finally grew spines after taking a stand against Damian but since they yet to admit their part in the other misdeeds of the team they still are spineless Arseholes. Sad. They should have learnt from Damian who stood his ground

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> I will agree with you 3 months ago, but upcoming Gotham Knight has Tim as Robin. Titans show will have (black) Tim, probably as Robin too. Indeed WB are invested with him on DCAMU and Apokalips War is a huge success, but I don't see any push for Damian from them lately. Even Arkham Knight game get canceled. *And I don't think DC is ever invested with Damian's generation. Damian maybe, but his generation? Not so much.* Jon got age up and still in Legion, the rumor said that LOSH is still continued after Future State. They didn't gave Damian generation Wonder for ages, and it's still way too early to know Yara Flor and direction DC will take with her. Emiko and Wallace are shipped into Dick's Titans Academy. Jackson moved into Young Justice bunch, along with Tim's team. No Lantern.
> On the other hand, along with Tim's upcoming exposure on game and show, Future State has Tim as Robin (Eternal). Young Justice is practically revives Tim's generation, and I will be surprised if Young Justice with main 4 Tim, Kon, Cassie, Bart will not be relaunched. Tynion handles Batman books now, and everyone know that he likes Tim and tried to bring Tim back as Robin. Current situation is not good for Damian's generation and seems like encourages Tim to be back as Robin, which is maybe for the best for the character (at least the Drake thing was over)


About Damian's generation, I think DC's hesitation when it comes to them derives from the fact that they bring continuity problems. Think about it: the only reason Damian exists is because Grant Morrison created him and they have a huge name in the industry. Dan Didio wanted to kill Dick because he thought his character brought continuity problems, but then he allows Batman's bio son to exist in main continuity? lol Is really funny actually. 

So far, on one hand, Damian's generation has been based in children from the JL, like him and Jon, but DC doesn't want to bring this level of development to all of their heroes. They surely don't want Wonder Woman to have a child, and because of that we don't have a younger Wonder Girl so far, even though Lyta Trevor existed in the past. Yara might in fact change that, but we don't know yet. I really hope yes, though! Aquaman recently had a kid, but I don't know what will happen to Andy. Will she stick post-Future State or disappear? Will she be aged a little bit? Will she still be just a baby? No idea. 

On the other hand, however, you also have characters like Wally and Red Arrow that technically are from Damian's generation, but are a little bit older and don't follow the "son of X" trope. I really don't know what to say about this characters, they seem to be less memorable, but that's not necesserally because they are bad characters, I think they just hadn't had a good push so far. (And I'll be honest, I don't really want to read Damian interacting with them for a while lol.)

Anyway, the point is, this third generation needs something that differentiates them, because we already have 2 generations of sidekicks, so they are in the brink of becoming a copy of the others. They can grow in number of characters, but DC needs to be willing to accept some new elements in continuity.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> @LoghtofJustice, I do like manipulative Damian. I don't think Damian should ever be a goody good guy without shades of grey however the anti hero niche should be Jason's. I didn't like Damian stepping all over jason's toes in TT.
> 
> DC has a problem. The Robin's blend into each other.
> Dick craved out a niche which they watered down Tim [at least they are really trying to]
> 
> Jason has managed to crave out a niche they shouldn't water that down.
> 
> The lack of sufficient inner dialogue was really irritating. Both with Damian on Tt and Batman in King's run.


Tim Drake got watered down because some of his fans thought the only way to make him interesting was to keep him as Robin forever.

Jason will always be the Red Hood, Damian becoming an Anti-hero can never over shadow that. It's like saying Tim aging up to Red Robin would waterdown Nightwing.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> I will agree with you 3 months ago, but upcoming Gotham Knight has Tim as Robin. Titans show will have (black) Tim, probably as Robin too. Indeed WB are invested with him on DCAMU and Apokalips War is a huge success, but I don't see any push for Damian from them lately. Even Arkham Knight game get canceled. And I don't think DC is ever invested with Damian's generation. Damian maybe, but his generation? Not so much. Jon got age up and still in Legion, the rumor said that LOSH is still continued after Future State. They didn't gave Damian generation Wonder for ages, and it's still way too early to know Yara Flor and direction DC will take with her. Emiko and Wallace are shipped into Dick's Titans Academy. Jackson moved into Young Justice bunch, along with Tim's team. *No Lantern.*
> On the other hand, along with Tim's upcoming exposure on game and show, Future State has Tim as Robin (Eternal). Young Justice is practically revives Tim's generation, and I will be surprised if Young Justice with main 4 Tim, Kon, Cassie, Bart will not be relaunched. Tynion handles Batman books now, and everyone know that he likes Tim and tried to bring Tim back as Robin. Current situation is not good for Damian's generation and seems like encourages Tim to be back as Robin, which is maybe for the best for the character (at least the Drake thing was over)


Kid Lantern is closer to Damian's age than Tim's, if she doesn't count there's still Tai if DC ever makes him canon.

----------


## Blue22

And man do I wish they'd make him canon. Dude's a way better character than the Teen Lantern that we got stuck with.

----------


## Light of Justice

> About Damian's generation, I think DC's hesitation when it comes to them derives from the fact that they bring continuity problems. Think about it: the only reason Damian exists is because Grant Morrison created him and they have a huge name in the industry. Dan Didio wanted to kill Dick because he thought his character brought continuity problems, but then he allows Batman's bio son to exist in main continuity? lol Is really funny actually.


Morrison is indeed created Damian, but they also the one who planned his death. After Batman Inc, Morrison doesn't have any influence to push Damian on the spotlight. I mean, Morrison didn't include him on any of their next stories (except that one hug with Jon), unlike Synder who tried to bring his creations every time he has chances. Morrison didn't even create new Lantern to be on Damian's generation, even though they has the chance to do so. Not that I blame them for that, it's good that Morrison founded and wrapped Damian's story, then let other writers do the rest. Didio is the one who planned 5G, the same universe which probably painted Damian as 'baby hitler' villains, so I think Damian's existence is only angst drama fodder for him.




> So far, on one hand, *Damian's generation has been based in children from the JL*, like him and Jon, but DC doesn't want to bring this level of development to all of their heroes. They surely don't want Wonder Woman to have a child, and because of that we don't have a younger Wonder Girl so far, even though Lyta Trevor existed in the past. Yara might in fact change that, but we don't know yet. I really hope yes, though! Aquaman recently had a kid, but I don't know what will happen to Andy. Will she stick post-Future State or disappear? Will she be aged a little bit? Will she still be just a baby? No idea. 
> 
> On the other hand, however, you also have characters like Wally and Red Arrow that technically are from Damian's generation, but are a little bit older and don't follow the "son of X" trope. I really don't know what to say about this characters, they seem to be less memorable, but that's not necesserally because they are bad characters, I think they just hadn't had a good push so far. (And I'll be honest, I don't really want to read Damian interacting with them for a while lol.)


Do you mean bio children? Because I think Wally, Roy, Kon, and Cassie are also children of their respective mentor (and Kon is technically Superman's bio child). If so, that's quite untrue, before Jon existed, Chris is the one who get paired with Damian, and he's not Superman's bio child. I don't know about Andy, but Jackson Hyde (Aqualad) is created on Damian's Teen Titans so I count him as Damian's generation, yet he's not Aquaman's bio child (even though maybe now he's on Tim's generation). But damn, Damian can't keep any of his friends at all. Emiko is on good term with Damian, even he visited Emiko on hospital. And Wallace, even though they're not really on good term and Damian fired him, Percy made them make up and expressing their want to learn how to work on team together. The everything change when the Didio attacks, whomst he declared that Damian had to be alone on his dark journey, too broody or not too broody, that is the question. 




> Anyway, the point is, this third generation needs something that differentiates them, because we already have 2 generations of sidekicks, so they are in the brink of becoming a copy of the others. They can grow in number of characters, but DC needs to be willing to accept some new elements in continuity.


Agreed, and honestly for me it's fine if Damian doesn't have his own generation, because I don't really prefer him on story team. His character has a bad habit to stand out and overshadow other character so for me he works best on solo or duo.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> Morrison is indeed created Damian, but they also the one who planned his death. After Batman Inc, Morrison doesn't have any influence to push Damian on the spotlight. I mean, Morrison didn't include him on any of their next stories (except that one hug with Jon), unlike Synder who tried to bring his creations every time he has chances. Morrison didn't even create new Lantern to be on Damian's generation, even though they has the chance to do so. Not that I blame them for that, it's good that Morrison founded and wrapped Damian's story, then let other writers do the rest. Didio is the one who planned 5G, the same universe which probably painted Damian as 'baby hitler' villains, so I think Damian's existence is only angst drama fodder for him.


Yes, that makes sense. But even after Damian died, Didio could have not allowed him to come back. Maybe he even didn't want him to come back, but someone from above called the shots? Anyway, like you said, he definetely became an angst source for Bruce. lol





> Do you mean bio children? Because I think Wally, Roy, Kon, and Cassie are also children of their respective mentor (and Kon is technically Superman's bio child). If so, that's quite untrue, before Jon existed, Chris is the one who get paired with Damian, and he's not Superman's bio child. I don't know about Andy, but Jackson Hyde (Aqualad) is created on Damian's Teen Titans so I count him as Damian's generation, yet he's not Aquaman's bio child (even though maybe now he's on Tim's generation). But damn, Damian can't keep any of his friends at all. Emiko is on good term with Damian, even he visited Emiko on hospital. And Wallace, even though they're not really on good term and Damian fired him, Percy made them make up and expressing their want to learn how to work on team together. The everything change when the Didio attacks, whomst he declared that Damian had to be alone on his dark journey, too broody or not too broody, that is the question.


Yes, sorry, I did meant bio children. And this might be a new trend after Jon came up and Supersons was created, because I have to say I didn't really think about the pre-Rebirth was, since Damian was not really part of any team then. A legit question: were Damian and Chris paired up in main continuity before? I can only remember them together in The Multiversity: The Just. And I actually didn't know Jackson Hyde was created to be part of Damian's generation lololol, I think Young Justice animated tricked me. Sorry.

But you are right to mention that Damian is never really allowed to keep his friendships, so we don't even know how a team would work in the long term.

----------


## Morgoth

> Yes, that makes sense. But even after Damian died, Didio could have not allowed him to come back. Maybe he even didn't want him to come back, but someone from above called the shots? Anyway, like you said, he definetely became an angst source for Bruce. lol


WB forced them to bring Damian back to life. Snyder, for example, wasn't happy with him hanging around. 
In addition to this, by that time he had already formed quite solid popularity, the fans were unhappy with his death. That's why it happened.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Yes, sorry, I did meant bio children. And this might be a new trend after Jon came up and Supersons was created, because I have to say I didn't really think about the pre-Rebirth was, since Damian was not really part of any team then. A legit question: were Damian and Chris paired up in main continuity before? I can only remember them together in The Multiversity: The Just. And I actually didn't know Jackson Hyde was created to be part of Damian's generation lololol, I think Young Justice animated tricked me. Sorry.


Chris was created on 2006, on same year as Damian so I've seen many pre-flashpoint fanart paired them together as World's Finest. On canon pre-flashpoint, indeed Damian was not in any team except his brief moment on Tim's TT and on one Batman/Superman issue #75, Conner was the future Superman on Damian's side as future Batman.
About Jackson, sorry I don't really understand him, nor read Aquaman. I think now there's 3 different version of him? But Rebirth Jackson has his first appearance (?) and his origin was explained on Damian's TT.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Chris was created on 2006, on same year as Damian so I've seen many pre-flashpoint fanart paired them together as World's Finest. On canon pre-flashpoint, indeed Damian was not in any team except his brief moment on Tim's TT and on one Batman/Superman issue #75, Conner was the future Superman on Damian's side as future Batman.
> About Jackson, sorry I don't really understand him, nor read Aquaman. I think now there's 3 different versions of him? But Rebirth Jackson has his first appearance (?) and his origin was explained on Damian's TT.


Chris is Damian's Superman in Multiversity too, while Damian dated Alexis Luthor, in Earth something-something where villains are gone that all DC people do is treat heroes like a celebrity

Jackson Hyde first appears I think in Pre-52 Brightest Day, sporting dreadlocks. He was meant to be part of Tim's Teen Titans since he at that time recently returned to it as Red Robin. 

He didn't appear in New 52 as far as I remember. 

Then in Rebirth, they gave him YJ Kaldur's appearance, where it's also the first time they mention he's gay, which is also to relate him to Kaldur who's revealed in Season 3 as... bi? I forget. Recently he's back in locks

----------


## Jackalope89

> Chris is Damian's Superman in Multiversity too, while Damian dated Alexis Luthor, in Earth something-something where villains are gone that all DC people do is treat heroes like a celebrity
> 
> Jackson Hyde first appears I think in Pre-52 Brightest Day, sporting dreadlocks. He was meant to be part of Tim's Teen Titans since he at that time recently returned to it as Red Robin. 
> 
> He didn't appear in New 52 as far as I remember. 
> 
> Then in Rebirth, they gave him YJ Kaldur's appearance, where it's also the first time they mention he's gay, which is also to relate him to Kaldur who's revealed in Season 3 as... bi? I forget. Recently he's back in locks


Pan, for Kaldur actually.

----------


## Fergus

> Tim Drake got watered down because some of his fans thought the only way to make him interesting was to keep him as Robin forever.
> 
> Jason will always be the Red Hood, Damian becoming an Anti-hero can never over shadow that. It's like saying Tim aging up to Red Robin would waterdown Nightwing.


Really? Damian already overshadowed him when it comes to his niche. TT had him doing what should be Jason's role while lobdell defanged Jason

Jason is running around shooting blanks [that rubber bullet nonsense is so lame say what you will about ToT Tim at least his guns fired real bullets]  Damian on the other hand is ending named villains and taking the war on crime one step further.

Damian is the bat who does what batman can not do.

Jason is making agreements with Bruce to play by his rules and when he steps out of line Bruce beats him like a bitch

Damian is stepping out of line breaking the rules  and when Bruce confronted him he stood his ground.

Now I get that Damian is 13 so Bruce can't hit nor should he but Damian is making Jason look like a bitch not the bat family bad boy.

The red hood is supposed to be the bat who does what Bruce can't. The anti hero.

He isn't. Damian is. 

When Bane took over Gotham, Jason was the only bat who obeyed the terrorists.
He is the only bat who is willing to compromise on his principles to please Bruce.

These all undermine his role.

Red Robin is a watered down nightwing. Those are not my words but the words of Geoff Johns which is why he advised Snyder to make Duke something different . Something that doesn't already exist.

Nightwing is a batman type spandex clad hero who used to be Robin. What is Red Robin? In the new 52 he was a nightwing lite now in rebrith he's Robin lite

Who is red Hood? A Robin who died came back and then what? He isn't trying to kill Joker, he isn't trying to end bad guys or the worst guys.

he is  just trolling batman by dressing up as one of his foes without making any effort to go after Joker. I guess you are right. Damian could never water that down. He doesn't have a leather Jacket for one.

lets face it TT Damian took over what should be Jason's role in the family. he became the Robin who died, came back and does the things that batman can't.

----------


## Fergus

Snyder and co can learn something from Morrison about how to handle original characters.

He created Damian for a story and after his story was done he tried to put his toys back in the box not push out/undermine existing characters in a effort to push OC's.

The reason being that Morrison created his OC for story purposes while someone like harper was created just so the writer can say they added something/leave their make on batman myth,

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> Really? Damian already overshadowed him when it comes to his niche. TT had him doing what should be Jason's role while lobdell defanged Jason
> 
> Jason is running around shooting blanks [that rubber bullet nonsense is so lame say what you will about ToT Tim at least his guns fired real bullets]  Damian on the other hand is ending named villains and taking the war on crime one step further.
> 
> Damian is the bat who does what batman can not do.
> 
> Jason is making agreements with Bruce to play by his rules and when he steps out of line Bruce beats him like a bitch
> 
> Damian is stepping out of line breaking the rules  and when Bruce confronted him he stood his ground.
> ...


I think you're overselling Damian here. 

Damian is not "the bat who can do what batman can't" because 1.) that plan blew up in his face cause it led to the teen titans almost breaking up and 2.) nothing he did had a long-term effect. He killed Deathstroke when Batman couldn't? Nope, Emiko did that and Deathstroke came back anyway. He made a brainwashing prison for villains who need to be stopped? Djinn was the real mastermind. He took out KGBeast when Nightwing couldn't? Nope, his own team messed that up.

Besides that, Red Hood has the better storylines right now, no amount of edgy Damian can overshadow him. He's evolved past just being the "anti-hero", he's now the hero who forms bonds with other outlawed heroes. To say Red Robin "watered-down" Nightwing would imply that the character managed to upstaged Nightwing and that's just not the case.

The only role TT Damian has taken is the bratty prodigal son, I never got Red Hood from that because he's already grown past that stage.

----------


## Fergus

> I think you're overselling Damian here. 
> 
> Damian is not "the bat who can do what batman can't" because 1.) that plan blew up in his face cause it led to the teen titans almost breaking up and 2.) nothing he did had a long-term effect. He killed Deathstroke when Batman couldn't? Nope, Emiko did that and Deathstroke came back anyway. He made a brainwashing prison for villains who need to be stopped? Djinn was the real mastermind. He took out KGBeast when Nightwing couldn't? Nope, his own team messed that up.
> 
> Besides that, Red Hood has the better storylines right now, no amount of edgy Damian can overshadow him. He's evolved past just being the "anti-hero", he's now the hero who forms bonds with other outlawed heroes. To say Red Robin "watered-down" Nightwing would imply that the character managed to upstaged Nightwing and that's just not the case.
> 
> The only role TT Damian has taken is the bratty prodigal son, I never got Red Hood from that because he's already grown past that stage.


I don't think you are even aware what the conversation is here.

There is no overselling Damian here since this shouldn't be his role no matter how well he does in the role it's not his so it's pointless. His fans don't want him in that role. I don't want him in that role. his story so far shouldn't be going in that direction. Damian occupying this role =a failure for the character. It's a regression. Damian was one of the greatest assassins the world never knew [according to RSOB] he is a killer turned hero.

Him going from hero to zero. From hero to outlaw is a failure for him so there's nothing to oversell.


1,The outcome of tt doesn't matter, what matters is that Damian had a plan, put the plan into motion. Jason never even got to the having a plan part

2,Damian had a plan for stopping crime that went beyond putting bad guys in jail

3. Well if he did indeed kill brother blood then that is a long term but the whole point is that there is no permanent solution to crime.

4,Oh so Djinn was the real mastermind behind the mindwipes? That good to know. Could you point me to where it says so in TT plz.

5, Neither batman nor Damian ever tried to kill Deathstroke. What are you talking about?

Anyway the point is Damian is acting more like an Outlaw than jason. While red Hood is acting more like a bat sidekick. One of them is currently an outlaw while the other is working with the Batfamily.

Jason should be the outlaw while damian should be the kid working on his redemption and a sidekick. Do you get me?

Both Damian and Jason are bratty kids only Jason is a grown ass man. There is no reason for a man to be trolling his step dad, shooting blanks and throwing tantrums.

Because DC won't let Jason kill Joker or any of the really bad guys that makes his whole running around in Joker's hand me downs and all his talk about some bad guys needed harsher punishment nothing but empty tantrums. 

Best is subjective. DCeased and Batman Beyond have been the only 2 good books with any of the bats for sometime now.
Lobdell has had him chasing his tail for years now. Johns and Taylor really phoned it in with their portrayals of the character in 3 Jokers and Dceased which is par for the course with DC writers and Jason

Why do you keep saying upstage? You realise that upstage and water down aren't the same? Right?
To water down means to dilute 
to upstage means to divert attention

They are not the same thing. damian isn't diverting attention from jason but he is watering down his role. Jason has a niche in the Bat franchise. The outlaw the bat who does what Batman can not do. However when Damian is written to be the Outlaw and the one breaking the rules then he's stepping on Jason's toes. Cutting into his niche. watering down his brand.

Does that makes more sense?

Also I don't think any of the bat boys could out edge Jason till he puts some real bullets in those guns. That is the height of egdelord  :Cool:

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> I don't think you are even aware what the conversation is here.
> 
> There is no overselling Damian here since this shouldn't be his role no matter how well he does in the role it's not his so it's pointless. His fans don't want him in that role. I don't want him in that role. his story so far shouldn't be going in that direction. Damian occupying this role =a failure for the character. It's a regression. Damian was one of the greatest assassins the world never knew [according to RSOB] he is a killer turned hero.
> 
> Him going from hero to zero. From hero to outlaw is a failure for him so there's nothing to oversell.
> 
> 
> 1,The outcome of tt doesn't matter, what matters is that Damian had a plan, put the plan into motion. Jason never even got to the having a plan part


And why does this matter? Red Hood in Outlaws was written as a young adult who didn't know what to do with life, someone trying to figure himself out with a bunch of friends along the ride. The book wasn't about his big master plan, it was about him maturing. Damian's TT run relied on trying to get readers to think he was a good leader, so when his plans failed it messed that up.




> 2,Damian had a plan for stopping crime that went beyond putting bad guys in jail








> 4,Oh so Djinn was the real mastermind behind the mindwipes? That good to know. Could you point me to where it says so in TT


It's implied that Djinn was manipulating Damian later on. It's clear that Damian went to both Red Hood and Djinn for guidance on carry out his prison plan




> Anyway the point is Damian is acting more like an Outlaw than jason. While red Hood is acting more like a bat sidekick. One of them is currently an outlaw while the other is working with the Batfamily.
> 
> Jason should be the outlaw while damian should be the kid working on his redemption and a sidekick. Do you get me?
> 
> Both Damian and Jason are bratty kids only Jason is a grown ass man. There is no reason for a man to be trolling his step dad, shooting blanks and throwing tantrums.


Damian in TT was like reading a weird Amanda Waller impression, that's the opposite of outlaw. Jason Todd acted like an outlaw because he was willing to side with Bizzaro even when the world still saw him as questionable. If his book was just about him shooting people or trying to act like a mastermind, then it would just peak edgelord. But instead it had wholesome emotional moments and the cast didn't feel like they all hated eachother.

Jason Todd isn't going to get watered down by an Anti-hero Damian because his only selling point isn't just being the anti-Bruce Wayne anymore. Not since Under the Red Hood.

Anti-heroes aren't a monolith, there are plenty of characters who are anti-heroes but they all have completely different personalities and motivations. An Anti-hero who grew up in the poorer parts of Gotham is not the same as one who was raised to be the heir to an Assassins organization.

----------


## Eckri

Anyone here read the latest issue of Detective Comics? 
*spoilers:*
I like how Damian is sorta being light-hearted when confronting Catherine Elliot. Also seeing the side of Damian loving animals, now just need to more of artistic side, I swear I could imagine being a
commission artist with how well he draws. Him being a rookie vigilante tracking down some cases seems to work for him, hope the writers continue making a rookie vigilante for a while until his inventible return to Robin
*end of spoilers*

----------


## sifighter

Guys....they're back under Peter Tomasi as a digital first series. The Super Sons are back once again.

https://m.readdc.com/Challenge-of-th...50QWRkaXRpb25z

----------


## Rac7d*

> Guys....they're back under Peter Tomasi as a digital first series. The Super Sons are back once again.
> 
> https://m.readdc.com/Challenge-of-th...50QWRkaXRpb25z


Merry Christmas to all !!

----------


## Blue22

Tec was pretty fun. Both the Damian related stuff and the Mirror guy stuff. I like how Bruce addressed that borderline mask lynch mob. It's the first time in a while I felt some iota of respect for him. As for the Damian side of things. It was nice. Great detective work from my son. Although....calling Talia "Mom"....Come on, Tomasi. You know better than that.




> Guys....they're back under Peter Tomasi as a digital first series. The Super Sons are back once again.
> 
> https://m.readdc.com/Challenge-of-th...50QWRkaXRpb25z



Buying the fuck out of this!

----------


## Morgoth

After omnibus sales, this is not surprising, I'm sure even more to come. 
Is it a maxi series like Adventures?
Damian's scene in 'Tec is awesome, by the way.

----------


## Shen

> Guys....they're back under Peter Tomasi as a digital first series. The Super Sons are back once again.
> 
> https://m.readdc.com/Challenge-of-th...50QWRkaXRpb25z


I was not expecting that...

But in the words of the great Dr Robotnik: I was expecting not to expect something, so it doesn't count.

I have mixed feelings and many questions about this, but it'll be nice to see em again.

----------


## Digifiend

> I've heard a leak say that Damian will be Robin again, but the sources cannot be trusted. Which is sad because the sources also said about Jon will get de-aged.


Probably a case of crossed wires - considering the Super Sons announcement. Kid Jon and Robin Damian in that, but it's treated as if Bendis never took over the Superman books. So it doesn't actually mean Jon will be de-aged or Damian will take back the R.




> Kid Lantern is closer to Damian's age than Tim's, if she doesn't count there's still Tai if DC ever makes him canon.


Her name is TEEN Lantern. Though, yes, she isn't actually a teen and is younger than Damian!

----------


## Light of Justice

> Anyone here read the latest issue of Detective Comics? 
> *spoilers:*
> I like how Damian is sorta being light-hearted when confronting Catherine Elliot. Also seeing the side of Damian loving animals, now just need to more of artistic side, I swear I could imagine being a
> commission artist with how well he draws. Him being a rookie vigilante tracking down some cases seems to work for him, hope the writers continue making a rookie vigilante for a while until his inventible return to Robin
> *end of spoilers*


I have some problem about today's Tec, like Mirror is a very lame villain and Hush shouldn't take down Batfam that easily, but Damian's writing is quite on point. Him stealing criminal's pet is hilarious. I expect some twist about the attempt of young Bruce's life though, because as much as I love detective Damian, I don't think Bruce didn't already know everything that Damian just deduced, like Elliot has half sister who take part on murder attempt at him. I think there's reason why Bruce let Elliot sibling go away after what they did to him.

Yes, I also hope that Damian will be independent and away from either Bat or Al Ghul for a while, and he can use is drawing talent to make money. I have personal headcanon that Damian will be commissioner artist who specialized on gore arts. He can draw other type of requests, but he become the best at drawing gore among other commissioner artists.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Guys....they're back under Peter Tomasi as a digital first series. The Super Sons are back once again.
> 
> https://m.readdc.com/Challenge-of-th...50QWRkaXRpb25z


Hell yeah!

----------


## CPSparkles

OopsIdiditagain I don't think that you understand what Point I was making or what Fergus was saying.

Yes Jason's niche/unique as an Outlaw doesn't get diluted by another outlaw within the same family. Of course not. Who needs USP's am I right?

----------


## CPSparkles

Good to hear that the supersons are getting a new title. I wonder will the fans support it financially or will they let it fail like the maxi?

I hope they support it with their wallets.

The benefit of loose continuity is that writers can tell stories from whenever they want. There's no need to deage jon since stories can be based at whatever period however supersons is kinda nerfed when one remembers that in the Future the supersons don't grow up to become the Worlds finest. I don't know about the rest of the Supersons fans but I'm not that interested in a duo that has no future.

it's the maxi all over again for me. Zero stakes. Not sure if I'll follow this title. I've recently gotten into Marvel and have a long list of books on my Marvel recommended titles to purchase so we'll see.

I just haven't been feeling DC for some time now..

Again Happy for the still invested supersons fans. You guys got your wish

----------


## Korath

Wonderful. More adventures of Ian the Moron and his master Kid Jon... I seriously hope Tomasi will be happy with this and won't make Damian return to Robin. Be happy with Fake Damian in your book Tomasi, please !

----------


## Konja7

> Good to hear that the supersons are getting a new title. I wonder will the fans support it financially or will they let it fail like the maxi?
> 
> I hope they support it with their wallets.
> 
> The benefit of loose continuity is that writers can tell stories from whenever they want. There's no need to deage jon since stories can be based at whatever period however supersons is kinda nerfed when one remembers that in the Future the supersons don't grow up to become the Worlds finest. I don't know about the rest of the Supersons fans but I'm not that interested in a duo that has no future.
> 
> it's the maxi all over again for me. Zero stakes. Not sure if I'll follow this title. I've recently gotten into Marvel and have a long list of books on my Marvel recommended titles to purchase so we'll see.
> 
> I just haven't been feeling DC for some time now..
> ...


Damian and Jon will never grow become the World Finest even if we have a solid continuity, since they won't remplace Bruce and Clark. That could only happen in AU.

So, they aren't really nerfed. 

In fact, it is more likely we will see Damian and Jon as the World Finest in a loose continuity.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Good to hear that the supersons are getting a new title. I wonder will the fans support it financially or will they let it fail like the maxi?
> 
> I hope they support it with their wallets.
> 
> The benefit of loose continuity is that writers can tell stories from whenever they want. There's no need to deage jon since stories can be based at whatever period however supersons is kinda nerfed when one remembers that in the Future the supersons don't grow up to become the Worlds finest. I don't know about the rest of the Supersons fans but I'm not that interested in a duo that has no future.
> 
> it's the maxi all over again for me. Zero stakes. Not sure if I'll follow this title. I've recently gotten into Marvel and have a long list of books on my Marvel recommended titles to purchase so we'll see.
> 
> I just haven't been feeling DC for some time now..
> ...


Honestly I don't care about future continuity at this point. I mean, comics on January and February are based on future possibilities that maybe not canon, like I don't see any fans care that Tim is (temporary) die on his Robin Eternal book, because we know that it's pointless for Tim's myth, and his fans still look forward for it. Damian's existence is missing from Future State, and he's either Magistrate, Peacekeeper, or Red X, and I don't really like all of those possibilities. Because I can't bring myself to enjoy DCeased, Supersons books means that I still can enjoy Damian on January and February, and if more I will not complain.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Wonderful. More adventures of Ian the Moron and his master Kid Jon... I seriously hope Tomasi will be happy with this and won't make Damian return to Robin. Be happy with Fake Damian in your book Tomasi, please !


No one is saying you have to read it. 

Besides, Ian and Jon were a completely different Super Sons run.

----------


## Digifiend

Yeah, you're mixing up Tomasi's Super Sons with the OGN Super Sons.

----------


## Blue22

He knows. This is just kind of his thing. I thought it was common knowledge at this point that hating any moment of reprieve for Damian is kind of his gimmick in these threads. Kid's not allowed to have any intermissions to enjoy the parts of his life that aren't utterly depressing. It reminds me of the mentality they had with Mortal Kombat 9, where they censored every fatality that might make Kratos look silly.

Damian is far from the only "serious" character to occasionally take part in adventures that aren't so serious. And Super Sons is far from the first time he's been a part of something like that. The serious Damian stories aren't going anywhere, nor should they. But come on. He's a kid. Let him be a kid every now and again. I can't think of very many superheroes who haven't been allowed moments to let their guard down.

----------


## charliehustle415



----------


## Korath

> He knows. This is just kind of his thing. I thought it was common knowledge at this point that hating any moment of reprieve for Damian is kind of his gimmick in these threads. Kid's not allowed to have any intermissions to enjoy the parts of his life that aren't utterly depressing. It reminds me of the mentality they had with Mortal Kombat 9, where they censored every fatality that might make Kratos look silly.
> 
> Damian is far from the only "serious" character to occasionally take part in adventures that aren't so serious. And Super Sons is far from the first time he's been a part of something like that. The serious Damian stories aren't going anywhere, nor should they. But come on. He's a kid. Let him be a kid every now and again. I can't think of very many superheroes who haven't been allowed moments to let their guard down.


There is a difference between moments of levity and being turned into an incompetent buffoon all to bolster the standing of another, newer, character. And, again, if peoples want Damian to be treated like a kid, his stories shouldn't be about him donning a costume and fighting crime. It should be about him navigating in the life of a normal thirteen years old with his past as a weight on his shoulders. Which could very much be an excellent story to read about, by the way.

Basically, Damian sneaking away to play at the arcade is perfectly okay in my book, especially with some of his friends. The way he's depicted in any version of the Supersons isn't, however.

----------


## Light of Justice

Fan arts based on latest Tec comics 


@daminyonok


@danaiyu


@yuki11_dc

----------


## Light of Justice

@hdavid_art

----------


## CPSparkles

> @hdavid_art


These are great. I saw the panel of damian's 1st Tec issue out of the Robin suit. he looked Dope.

I haven't been keeping up. Why does he have a gun in one of these? That isn't from the tec story right?

----------


## Shen

> These are great. I saw the panel of damian's 1st Tec issue out of the Robin suit. he looked Dope.
> 
> I haven't been keeping up. Why does he have a gun in one of these? That isn't from the tec story right?


Actually, that's from the latest Tec issue. Damian's part is pretty good, you should read it.

----------


## Jackalope89

> These are great. I saw the panel of damian's 1st Tec issue out of the Robin suit. he looked Dope.
> 
> I haven't been keeping up. Why does he have a gun in one of these? That isn't from the tec story right?


He disarmed a person.

----------


## Konja7

> Fan arts based on latest Tec comics 
> 
> 
> @daminyonok
> 
> 
> @danaiyu
> 
> 
> @yuki11_dc


It is interesting that Damian is drawn with green eyes when he has blue eyes with that suit in Detective Comics.

----------


## Fergus

Damian in tec was fun and very Dark knightlike. Liked his panels. Didn't like that this story seems to be one of those. Bat family as fodder type arcs.
Bruce yet again prioritising Gotham over his family. Why didn't he go look for Damian since he has the Batfamily in Gotham.

The quickness with disarming the bad lady
Damian reminding us that he is his father's son when it comes to detective skills 
The fact that as bad ass as he was in those panels his feet doesn't actually touch the ground when he's sitting down.

Curious that Bruce still refers to Damian as Robin in his inner narrations. Problems handling rejecting?

----------


## Fergus

> It is interesting that Damian is drawn with green eyes when he has blue eyes with that suit in Detective Comics.


I guess the artists prefer Damian with green eyes. The batkids are often drawn like Bruce clones. I like green eyed Damian

----------


## Fergus

Great news about the supersons return. my kids are going to be chuffed

----------


## Fergus

Countdown Best Robin.

'Damian Wayne the ultimate distillation of all previous Robins'

https://www.gamesradar.com/best-robin-batman/

----------


## CPSparkles

> Actually, that's from the latest Tec issue. Damian's part is pretty good, you should read it.


Checked out the reviews and they are good.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Countdown Best Robin.
> 
> 'Damian Wayne the ultimate distillation of all previous Robins'
> 
> https://www.gamesradar.com/best-robin-batman/


Nice. Damian being funny is something that's not brought up often but the kid is hilarious. I like that they touched on that.

----------


## CPSparkles

I have to agree with Korath that Supersons turned Damian into the butt of the joke. I didn't like it. 

I hope he doesn't bring that crap back in his new series

----------


## Blue22

And I still think most claims of that have been greatly exaggerated almost as much as the claims of Jon being "abusive". They both ribbed on each other or made the other look dumb all throughout the series. But people seem to only pay attention when it's Jon doing it to Damian for...some reason. It wasn't a one way thing. For every moment where Jon does something that's at Damian's expense, there's a moment of Damian belittling Jon or making him look stupid/weak/childish/etc.

----------


## CPSparkles

> And I still think most claims of that have been greatly exaggerated almost as much as the claims of Jon being "abusive". They both ribbed on each other or made the other look dumb all throughout the series. But people seem to only pay attention when it's Jon doing it to Damian for...some reason. It wasn't a one way thing. For every moment where Jon does something that's at Damian's expense, there's a moment of Damian belittling Jon or making him look stupid/weak/childish/etc.


You know there are blogs dedicated to showing that Damian is abusive to Jon. Claiming how the relationship is toxic all because of Damian. 
So the claim that people only pay attention when it's Jon doing it is false.

thattimdrakeguy.tumblr.com is one such popular blog
Even pro Damian blog's get in on it pinning the blame on him so it's not even like the people who are spreading this narrative are anti's only

nymph-patt.tumblr.com is a pro superson's blog that has multiple posts on Damian's abuse of Poor Jon kent.

What was Damian's crime when Jon elected to communicate with his fist while Damian was risking his life saving Jon's?

Damian does make fun of Jon but he doesn't physically assault him like Jon does to Damian [Jon seems to prefer fists over words when it comes to hashing thing's out with Damian in the SS series]

Jon makes fun of Damian more times than is the reverse. Jon is also has more instances of throwing insult's and belittling remarks out of nowhere when thing's are going well.

We all have our subjective opinions but going through all the issues of SS, Jon is the more Abusive of the duo [physically and verbally]
Going through the issues of both series of SS majority of the Jokes are at the expense of the Damian. There isn't a single issue where the reader is encouraged to laugh at/laughs at Jon but there's multiple where readers are encouraged to laugh at Damian.

There are exaggerated claims of abuse but those claims lay the blame on Damian.
There are more people who cite Damian as the abusive one in the relationship than the reverse. 

The above aren't subjective or my opinion. 

Can anyone point me to a single issue where the issue/story mocks Jon/makes him the butt of the joke like they did with the issue where Damian is aged up.

Can anyone point me to an issue where complete strangers make fun of Jon like the 2 Black girls from that alternate world?


The bickering and ribbing is supposed to be good natured. I get that but not's not balanced.

----------


## Blue22

> You know there are blogs dedicated to showing that Damian is abusive to Jon. Claiming how the relationship is toxic all because of Damian. 
> So the claim that people only pay attention when it's Jon doing it is false.
> 
> thattimdrakeguy.tumblr.com is one such popular blog
> Even pro Damian blog's get in on it pinning the blame on him so it's not even like the people who are spreading this narrative are anti's only
> 
> nymph-patt.tumblr.com is a pro superson's blog that has multiple posts on Damian's abuse of Poor Jon kent.
> 
> There are exaggerated claims of abuse but those claims lay the blame on Damian.
> There are more people who cite Damian as the abusive one in the relationship than the reverse.


Heh. Learn something new every day. I'm basing this mostly on what I see here and comment sections for things relating to those two. So people go way overboard with both of them. Good to know. That's honestly one of the reasons I've stopped frequenting places like tumblr for fandom related things. Some of those bloggers have a knack for reading way too far into things and getting so wrapped up in a character's words/actions that they completely forget about the writers' intent. For the sake of everyone's sanity, I pray the Super Sons fandom isn't as bad as RWBY's in that regard.




> What was Damian's crime when Jon elected to communicate with his fist while Damian was risking his life saving Jon's?


See, if the instance you're talking about is what I think it is, then that's another issue where _intent_ is the key. Yes, Damian was trying to save Jon. But Jon was trying to save them both. Knocking Damian (and then himself) out wasn't his idea. It was Starfire's and she explained *exactly* why.




If they're unconscious, they can't be tracked by Raven. Literally everyone got that but Damian, who was too busy being...well...Damian. Uncooperative with people who are trying to help him. Love the kid to death but calling a spade a spade here. He's an asshole. Wouldn't have him any other way but he is an asshole. And in this situation, he was being *the* asshole. Not Jon.




> Damian does make fun of Jon but he doesn't physically assault him like Jon does to Damian


No, he just calls in a favor from a former assassin and a giant bat creature to kidnap a ten year old boy so he can interrogate him about a dead cat (whose death he knew was an accident). Then there's their fight at the end of Superman #11, where I'm willing to bet money on Damian being the one who threw the first punch given the context of that scene. Then we have him shoving a pie in Jon's mouth to shut him up in #20. Oh and him once again being the one who attacked first in Super Sons #5. And how could I forget him shooting the kid off of a building with what I assume is a flare gun?

Moral of the story: They're both a couple of immature, thick headed dunces who have a habit of hitting first and talking later. Which is something Damian has always been and will probably (hopefully) never stop being.




> Jon makes fun of Damian more times than is the reverse. Jon is also has more instances of throwing insult's and belittling remarks out of nowhere when thing's are going well.


I'd have to do a lot of re-reading to argue with that and I've already gotten too distracted from my finals so I'll have to get back to you on this one lol




> We all have our subjective opinions but going through all the issues of SS, Jon is the more Abusive of the duo [physically and verbally]
> Going through the issues of both series of SS majority of the Jokes are at the expense of the Damian.


I reeeeeally wish we wouldn't call what those two do to each other abuse. Physical or verbal. There's a *huge* difference between an actual abusive relationship and some harmless back and forth ribbing/slapstick from two little kids (one of whom has always had a strong will, a *massive* ego, and a tendency to go off on anyone who doesn't fall in line with what he wants). 

What they have a is an *incredibly* standard type of "opposites attract" friendship that you see literally everywhere in fiction. Hell, you see it with their dads. 

They're Ruby and Weiss (in volume 1, anyway). Naruto and Sasuke (at least pre and post Shippuden). Zoro and Sanji. Midoriya and Bakugo. Goku and Vegeta. Ichigo and Rukia/Uryu. Ban and King. Literally every member of Team Bucciarati (though they're a...very extreme example). The list goes on and on.

Relationships that are born out of conflict and can almost come across as hostile when looked at by people who don't know them. But for those who do, there's that obvious layer of mutual respect and willingness to have each other's backs when push comes shove. The layer that easily shines through all the (typically played for laughs) fighting.




> Can anyone point me to a single issue where the issue/story mocks Jon/makes him the butt of the joke like they did with the issue where Damian is aged up.


Just off the top of my head: That entire time Jon spent split between two versions of himself that hated each other. 

And _possibly_ in that Robin Anniversary special where we see snippets of some off-panel adventure that resulted in Jon being turned into a giant baby. Though I admit, we'd have actually had to see how that adventure played out to know for sure lol




> Can anyone point me to an issue where complete strangers make fun of Jon like the 2 Black girls from that alternate world?


That's another one I'll have to get back to you on. I'd actually been meaning to re-read that arc for a while.




> The bickering and ribbing is supposed to be good natured. I get that but not's not balanced.


Eh. I've thought it's all been pretty balanced and good natured, myself. But to each their own. I personally don't see anything wrong with their dynamic and find it pretty par for the course in terms of your stereotypical friendship/rivalry that you see in just about every story.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Heh. Learn something new every day. I'm basing this mostly on what I see here and comment sections for things relating to those two. So people go way overboard with both of them. Good to know. That's honestly one of the reasons I've stopped frequenting places like tumblr for fandom related things. Some of those bloggers have a knack for reading way too far into things and getting so wrapped up in a character's words/actions that they completely forget about the writers' intent. For the sake of everyone's sanity, I pray the Super Sons fandom isn't as bad as RWBY's in that regard.
> 
> 
> 
> See, if the instance you're talking about is what I think it is, then that's another issue where _intent_ is the key. Yes, Damian was trying to save Jon. But Jon was trying to save them both. Knocking Damian (and then himself) out wasn't his idea. It was Starfire's and she explained *exactly* why.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Hope you don't mind me using bullet point's. 

. Agree tumblr is a down and breeds negativity in fandoms
. Damian being Damian except when tomasi wants to make a joke or make him OCC where he calls Superman sir and is suddenly humble the rest of the issue. Jon didn't have to punch Damian, he could have used his words. Damian isn't stupid and he isn't that stubborn. A kid who is willing to go to hell, willing to give his life to save other is willing to get knocked out for the safety of other so plz don't give me that .

. Funny you aren't familiar with these Damian is abusive to Jon blogs but you repeat one of the popular misinformation's from those sites. Go back to the issue Blue Damian sent maya to observe Jon not kidnap him . her orders were to keep an eye on his since his powers were dangerous and un predictable.

maya was forced to bring Jon in to save not just his life but the lives of lord knows how many creatures in that forest [Maya's and Goliath's included] from Jon guess what losing control and unleashing his dangerous powers.
Maya kidnapped Jon not Damian

. Yes Damian did assess Jon just like Bruce. Something Clark neglected to do thoroughly. he did so not simply because he was pissed or driven by selfish emotions. Unlike Jon who punched Damian because he dared to state the fact that Jon fried his cat

. I can't say who started the fight in Superman 11 and I'm not willing to make a bet because that's not subjective and open to bias.

We all interpret comic's differently due to individual bias which is why i asked for a specific issue where it's clear that we are supposed to laugh at Jon or he's the butt of the Joke.

Do you remember how many times dC circulated that panel of Jon Punching Damian from Superman #10?
Taking Damian down a peg was literally part of DC's promo for Supersons. Visit DC.com and look at the content from back when Rebirth was fresh.

. Damian isn't as immature as Tomasi portrayed him in Supersons and he most certainly isn't a Dounce. 
. Honestly I think you tune out a lot of Damian stories. I get that you are one of those who insists that EVERY new writer resets Damian while disregarding like 90% of the writers who have written him but to make such claims about Damian is laughable.
. The issue with two Jon's didn't have any jokes at Jon's expense. The two Jon's bickering wasn't derogatory in any way. If anything it made Jon seem sweet and adorable [will revist it though just to refresh]

. Damian is an Arsehole but he is not just an arsehole. It's frustrating when some choose to ignore his other traits or growth/changes over the years and just see the funny arsehole.
. It's frustrating when some ignore all the contribution form other writers who have put in work to craft and chart the characters journey thus far. When changes he made in past stories are ignored because it's not Morrison or Tomasi or Gleason

Like i said before we interpret comics differently I felt that the balance was off in the Tomasi's writing to of the Supersons. dini, Taylor, Miller, Nguyen, Gleason they have a better handle on Damian interacting with jon and new friends.

Colin has no where near the amount of stories with Damian but Dini did more development of Damian's making friends than Tomasi ever did 

Miller did a better job writing a balanced bickering friends/allies in his Batgirl run than Supersons

Gotham Academy, streets of Gotham and RSOB did a better job showing us Damian showing he can work with is peers than Supersons.
Percy did a better job showing us Damian's maturity than Tomasi.

All these titles show that Supersons is the outlier. All but one of these are before supersons yet goes backwards or is written like those titles never happened

Damian in Supersons is regressed. Tomasi regressed Damian for Supersons. Which is nothing new.

Tomasi has ignored key development milestones in Damian's story before

he ignored the no killing rule 
He ignored Damian becoming a vegetarian
He ignored that Damian has already completed the making friends arc

Just to be clear i don't view the relationship as abusive [far from it] 

I'm using the term because well Punching and insults technically are abuse so using it as a descriptor.

----------


## Blue22

You know what....studying can wait, I'm having fun lol

This is a long response so I had to split it into two posts.




> Hope you don't mind me using bullet point's. 
> . Agree tumblr is a down and breeds negativity in fandoms


Negativity, ignorance, perversion. It's a fucking cesspool. Which is a shame because I used to love going there to find good fanfics.




> . Damian being Damian except when tomasi wants to make a joke or make him OCC where he calls Superman sir and is suddenly humble the rest of the issue. Jon didn't have to punch Damian, he could have used his words. Damian isn't stupid and he isn't that stubborn. A kid who is willing to go to hell, willing to give his life to save other is willing to get knocked out for the safety of other so plz don't give me that.


They were on a bit of a time crunch and Damian wasn't making things easy. It would have likely always ended in someone knocking him out. Damian's a great guy, and that entire story line highlights some of the biggest positives about him and his friendship with Jon. But he's still a cocky little shit who has to have things his way or no way. Like he was trying to do in that very situation before Jon knocked him the fuck out. That's not just a Tomasi thing. Whether it's Morrison, Glass, Gleason, Johns, etc, one constant about Damian is that he typically isn't the easiest person to reason with. Especially not for a ten year old kid in a highly stressful and time sensitive situation. One that he was probably blaming himself for and just wanted a way to get it all over and done with as fast and safely as possible. Was it a rash move? Yes. But there were too many factors for me to act like what Jon did was all that bad or unwarranted. 




> . Funny you aren't familiar with these Damian is abusive to Jon blogs but you repeat one of the popular misinformation's from those sites. Go back to the issue Blue Damian sent maya to observe Jon not kidnap him . her orders were to keep an eye on his since his powers were dangerous and un predictable.


Yeah. That was my bad. I got it mixed up with his little kidnap ("for their own good") spree in Teen Titans (You wanna talk about regression? Let's talk about the absolute fucking brat that he was in both Titans runs lol). I'll concede on that one  :Smile: 




> Unlike Jon who punched Damian because he dared to state the fact that Jon fried his cat


It was less the cat and more Damian being a dick every time Jon tried making peace, and then going for the low blow about his Mom. Though...that might have been a weird continuity hiccup on Tomasi's part. Damian taunts Jon about making his mom cry but I don't recall Lois crying over the cat. Jon struck first but Damian was 100% being an instigator there. Was it right? No, of course not. But, as I've said before, they're *both* guilty of unnecessarily assaulting the other on more than one occasion. It is what it is. And it's honestly not a big deal in the grand scheme of things.




> . I can't say who started the fight in Superman 11 and I'm not willing to make a bet because that's not subjective and open to bias.


In this particular instance, I can't really imagine a scenario where Jon hit first. It felt to me like a subversion of what happened in #10, with Jon being the instigator this time instead of Damian. Literally the exact same set up. One of them got a little too mouthy and provoked the other.





> We all interpret comic's differently due to individual bias which is why i asked for a specific issue where it's clear that we are supposed to laugh at Jon or he's the butt of the Joke.


And I gave you the specific scenario. Adventures of the Super Sons #3. That whole callback to the Red and Blue Superman stories. Jon got split in two and spent that entire time fighting with and making pot shots at himself. 

That entire issue was full of stuff like this. Two Jons making fools out of themselves.




> Do you remember how many times dC circulated that panel of Jon Punching Damian from Superman #10?


No. I don't. I don't typically pay attention to DC's social media presence or their online promos.

Well that certainly is concerning. But if that was their intent, I'm happy to at least think that they didn't do a good job at conveying that. Both runs weren't perfect, but by the end, Super Sons made me see Damian in an even more positive light than I already. Especially after reading Jon's words here:
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/xnFtf0S5N1...EnHPlAMg=s1600




> . Damian isn't as immature as Tomasi portrayed him in Supersons and he most certainly isn't a Dounce.


It was mostly hyperbole when I referred to them both as dunces. I don't think Jon is one either but I'mma still call them both that when they act like it.




> Honestly I think you tune out a lot of Damian stories. *I get that you are one of those* who insists that EVERY new writer resets Damian while disregarding like 90% of the writers who have written him but to make such claims about Damian is laughable.


I'm gonna stop you right there because I'm actually not...Or at least not as much as I used to be. There are a lot of writers who like to play up his brattiness in serious stories a little more than I'd prefer (Tynion being a good example). But, for the most part, the only times I've straight up had issues with the way he was written was when he was in the hands of Bendis, Glass, and Percy. And in Glass, case, I don't think he reset Damian. He just took him in a direction that I'm am SO not a fan of. 

Everyone else, I'm *mostly* cool with. I still think Morrison, Tomasi, and Gleason are the ones who've been the best to him. But I don't _insist_ every new writer messes him up.




> . The issue with two Jon's didn't have any jokes at Jon's expense. The two Jon's bickering wasn't derogatory in any way. If anything it made Jon seem sweet and adorable [will revist it though just to refresh]


The entire issue was a joke at Jon's expense. Pages upon pages of him being a complete jackass and almost screwing up their escape because he couldn't stop fighting with himself. It was adorable, yeah. But it didn't turn "sweet" until the next issue when both halves stated to chill out. Though both of them talking about how great Damian is was also pretty sweet.




> . Damian is an Arsehole but he is not just an arsehole. It's frustrating when some choose to ignore his other traits or growth/changes over the years and just see the funny arsehole.


And with that, I will 100% agree with you on. One of the worst things someone can do with Damian as a character is make him a stuck up asshole and forget that, underneath the pomp and the ego, he is a hero. One who's fought tooth and nail to undo the years of programming and *actual* abuse that he suffered through, growing up. The kid has multiple layers to who he is and that's what's always made him such an interesting character to me.




> Like i said before we interpret comics differently I felt that the balance was off in the Tomasi's writing to of the Supersons. dini, Taylor, Miller, Nguyen, Gleason they have a better handle on Damian interacting with jon and new friends.


I will give you this. Something was definitely different about how Tomasi wrote Damian in Super Sons, as opposed to Batman and Robin. But not to the point where I'd say Damian was flanderized or made to act out of character. If anything, I'd chalk it up to the different tones of both series. Batman and Robin was obviously more serious so we got a more serious take on Damian. Super Sons is literally just a series of fun adventures between two kids. So you're gonna see Damian's inner kid come out sometimes. The way it has with Dick and even Stephanie (Man, I miss their friendship. I'd rather see that come back than Steph taking up the Batgirl mantle again)

----------


## Blue22

> Colin has no where near the amount of stories with Damian but Dini did more development of Damian's making friends than Tomasi ever did


While I do really like Colin as a concept and as a friend for Damian, and think not bringing him back post-Flashpoint was a HUGE mistake, I gotta disagree here. Mostly because of how little time they were able to spend together. I think their relationship COULD have been better than Damian and Jon's. I think it SHOULD have been since Colin is the first time Damian was able to make friend with someone his own age. But I don't think it really got the chance to be. Those two could have been great. It really is a shame Colin doesn't really exist anymore.




> Miller did a better job writing a balanced bickering friends/allies in his Batgirl run than Supersons


Different? Yes. Better? I'm not sure...I like 'em both for different reasons. Mostly because his dynamic with both characters is so different. At the end of the day, I can't really say which one I prefer.




> Gotham Academy, streets of Gotham and RSOB did a better job showing us Damian showing he can work with is peers than Supersons.
> Percy did a better job showing us Damian's maturity than Tomasi.


Those other ones are subjective but I have to hard disagree on Percy. I like his Titans lineup. I liked the series, for the most part. I actually prefer it over Glass'. It's actually *really* fucking close to a Titans line up I'd always dreamed of seeing (just replace Kory and Wallace with Wonder Girl and Impulse). But good Lord, the only character in that run that I found to be more insufferable than Damian was Wallace. If you were to ask me which Rebirth title did Damian the dirtiest, I'd pick Teen Titans over Super Sons in a heartbeat. For as little time as he spent with them, Damian was so much better in Geoff Johns' Teen Titans. I actually really wish he had stayed with them.




> Damian in Supersons is regressed. Tomasi regressed Damian for Supersons. Which is nothing new.


Yeah I gotta disagree again. Aside from a few odd lines here and there (mostly popping up in Adventures and not in the main series), I don't see Damian in Super Sons as a regression. Quite the opposite, actually. I've always seen stories like RSOB and Super Sons as a testament to how far he's come as a character. There are so many moments in both of those books where I can't help but smile and think "Wow...This is the same angry little kid who thought he could kill every obstacle in his way". I've followed this particular Robin since he and Dick were a team. And to see him at a point where he's genuinely happy and can make friends with people who aren't also adopted siblings...it's really heartwarming.

I'm not gonna lie and act like Super Sons is always perfect or that Tomasi always has a handle on Damian's voice. But for what it is, I think it's a fantastic addition to who he is as a character. And that's the best thing about it. It's only one part of who he is. Just like how Tim's light hearted and comedic adventures with the old Young Justice were only a small part of who he is.

Tomasi's definitely not some genius writer and Super Sons is FAR from being as good as his Batman and Robin run. But he is still one of the only writers that I would always trust with the character.




> Tomasi has ignored key development milestones in Damian's story before
> 
> he ignored the no killing rule


We're talking Morgan Ducard, right (whose death I still can't comprehend. I know Damian wasn't a normal ten year old but how the fuck did he pierce that dude's skull with his fingers!?) Because, IIRC, that was another one where I was willing to forgive the actions because of the circumstances. Especially since this was back when Damian was still supposed to be a bit of a wild card.




> He ignored Damian becoming a vegetarian


Not excusing this one but have any non-Morrison writers actually remembered that?




> He ignored that Damian has already completed the making friends arc


Ehh...Not quite. He's never claimed Jon was his first friend. In fact Tomasi's gone out of his way to be one of the only people who not only remembers Maya exists but that she calls Damian her "brother". If anyone ignored Damian's "making friends arc", it's Percy with that dumb ass "I have no friends" line.

______

Apologies for the Super post. When I have a lot on my mind, stuff just tends to pour out lol

----------


## Light of Justice

Wow, I didn't expect to see a detailed analysis for a book like Supersons, both from pro and contra side. It's intresting to see different perspective from different side about Supersons.

And for me, basic of Supersons story is good cop bad cop trope.

On that kind of plot, indeed we are supposed to laugh at bad cop, like Agent Carter and Inspector Lee on Rush Hour. Also it's clear that the book was made for Jon, and Damian is his support character. I personally don't mind with it, Damian is often placed as bad cop multiple times, like on Nightwing Rebirth, Miller's Batgirl (bad cop worse cop), even Morrison's Batman and Robin, but I can see why some Damian fans didn't like it, especially for Supersons because while it kinda sucks when a character whom you admired to be placed as bad cop for good cop partner, I bet to be a bad cop for good cop partner who is younger, more naive and way more amateur will doubles the effect. Also it's frustrating when people judge Damian based on Supersons alone, even though clearly Damian's characterization on Supersons was remodeled a little to complement Jon character. Like when Jon fans said that Damian is "bully who deserve Jon's punch", ugh at least I already gave them my rant.

Personally I like and feel okay with Supersons.  When I read it, I don't have to think hard about plot and characterization and just enjoy their sweet friendship interaction. When is Damian just a kid interacting with his kid friend and counterpart. The book is fun, light, silly journey between two boys, and for me it should be treated as such. Comparing who get harmed more and who hurt more on that book will just end up with pointless Pain Olympic round. Besides, jab and punch are basically welcome handshake on superhero universe. And honestly if some of Damian fans don't want or hate Supersons, they can ignore the book just fine, because I think the only thing on Supersons book that affects Damian's life is his friendship with Jon, which is nice because Jon is admittedly a character who has strong background and IP compared to the rest like Maya, Colin, Suren, and Maps, so their friendship will last longer (or at least until the time when DC will pull mini Batman vs Superman nonsense with both of them, which is honestly kinda expected from current DC).

----------


## Light of Justice

Btw, here's another fanarts (and meme) of latest Tec issues. Didn't expect the costume to be popular (personally it's kinda bland for me) or maybe it's just because cat effect, just like everything that happened in this world.


@concord-and-cliches (tumblr)


@umnoving (tumblr)


@yicruz48

----------


## CPSparkles

> While I do really like Colin as a concept and as a friend for Damian, and think not bringing him back post-Flashpoint was a HUGE mistake, I gotta disagree here. Mostly because of how little time they were able to spend together. I think their relationship COULD have been better than Damian and Jon's. I think it SHOULD have been since Colin is the first time Damian was able to make friend with someone his own age. But I don't think it really got the chance to be. Those two could have been great. It really is a shame Colin doesn't really exist anymore.
> 
> 
> Different? Yes. Better? I'm not sure...I like 'em both for different reasons. Mostly because his dynamic with both characters is so different. At the end of the day, I can't really say which one I prefer.
> 
> 
> 
> Those other ones are subjective but I have to hard disagree on Percy. I like his Titans lineup. I liked the series, for the most part. I actually prefer it over Glass'. It's actually *really* fucking close to a Titans line up I'd always dreamed of seeing (just replace Kory and Wallace with Wonder Girl and Impulse). But good Lord, the only character in that run that I found to be more insufferable than Damian was Wallace. If you were to ask me which Rebirth title did Damian the dirtiest, I'd pick Teen Titans over Super Sons in a heartbeat. For as little time as he spent with them, Damian was so much better in Geoff Johns' Teen Titans. I actually really wish he had stayed with them.
> 
> ...


Don't mind the long post it's interesting to read.

Like I said before we all interpret certain ascepts of comics differently. If you honestly say that * you were laughing at Jon and not with him*  in the issue where he was split then fair dues.

You seem to have forgotten the debate you had with @dietrich on the old thread where you made the claim that most seem to regress Damian and have no handle on him. Which he promptly debunked by giving you a list of the writers who have written Damian to date. 

You also said that Damian is the most inconsistent written character in the bat family which is objectively false. nuances aside when you look at all the writers that have handled Damian the percentages just don't support your comment so yeah you are one of those fans who when it comes to a character that has been written by so many writers only insist on giving credit to a handful.

Tynion actually writes a good Damian as he proved with batman v TMNT imo but maybe you had a problem with how he wrote him in that title [or you are ignoring the series and simply looking at his handful of appearances in Rebirth Tec]

The only character in Percy's TT who deserves any ire is Garfield who managed to somehow be a combination of a bully and a coward. he was petty and really not a hero at all. Not sure why Damian recruited him or even kept him on especially after he was petty AF/reluctant to save the people of Gotham during Metal.

Yeah Percy did pull that no friends rubbish which was occ and untrue ps. The kidnapping TM's was very bruce but I'm glad that Glass did show that Damian has grown from that
I wouldn't credit Tomasi with Maya since the titles where he used Maya were all co-written with Gleason her creator.

It's fine if you thought Supersons was balanced like you said Agree to disagree. 
Regardless of my issues with the book I still cherish it. That at let we can agree on. Supersons was a highpoint of DC rebirth

----------


## CPSparkles

> Btw, here's another fanarts (and meme) of latest Tec issues. Didn't expect the costume to be popular (personally it's kinda bland for me) or maybe it's just because cat effect, just like everything that happened in this world.
> 
> 
> @concord-and-cliches (tumblr)
> 
> 
> @umnoving (tumblr)
> 
> 
> @yicruz48


This is sad yet funny lol

----------


## Blue22

> You seem to have forgotten the debate you had with @dietrich on the old thread where you made the claim that most seem to regress Damian and have no handle on him. Which he promptly debunked by giving you a list of the writers who have written Damian to date.


I did say I don't think that *as much as I used to*, didn't I? Being presented with new information is a great way to have your mind changed lol




> You also said that Damian is the most inconsistent written character in the bat family which is objectively false. nuances aside when you look at all the writers that have handled Damian the percentages just don't support your comment so yeah you are one of those fans who when it comes to a character that has been written by so many writers only insist on giving credit to a handful.


Inconsistent yes. I do think certain writers have handled him differently to the point where, while not terrible, his words and/actions don't necessarily match up with the way he's developed (be it good development or bad). It's typically little things but they're things that I find to be inconsistencies, nonetheless. How bratty and difficult to work with Damian can be often does depend on who is writing him. Tynion in his tec run, for example, had him in that family meeting contributing absolutely nothing aside from the typical "everyone here sucks" attitude that you'd expect more from him, pre-Flaspoint. As for his TMNT crossover, I'm not ignoring it. I haven't read it. If we're being totally honest here, I often forget it existed lol. So for now I'll take your word for it on how well he handled Damian in that. I'll probably get around to reading it eventually but it never really caught my interest enough to check it out.

So yes, while I *no longer* think Morrison, Tomasi, and Gleason are the only writers who _get_ Damian, I do still think he and Bruce are some of the more inconsistently written characters in the family, in terms of their overall attitudes and how well they work with others. Are they all bad takes on Damian? No. There are only three or four takes on him that I'd call bad. But a lot of them are just enough for me to see noticeable differences between interpretations. Glass' Damian isn't King's Damian. King's Damian isn't Percy's Damian. Percy's Damian isn't Tynion's Damian. And so on. Hell, I've noticed Tynion even offers up more than one version of Damian. One who acts like he doesn't want any part of the family and one who cares enough to give Tim a much needed pep talk. Of course, when a character has been around for so long and is written by so many different people, you're bound to come across some differences in how the character is portrayed. But his just...always stuck out more to me than with any other Batfamily member.

----------


## Blue22

> Btw, here's another fanarts (and meme) of latest Tec issues. Didn't expect the costume to be popular (personally it's kinda bland for me)


I actually like it a lot better than the updated Robin costume that he's had since Rebirth. It's simple but very..sleek. And very him. Like his original Robin costume. 

To me, one of the only downsides I'd see for him going back to Robin would be losing this look.

----------


## Jackalope89

I admit, this is me since the age-up happened;

----------


## Fergus

Tynion's Batman/TMNT is something I would recommend to fans of Damian, Batman and the Turtles. It adds the rest of the family later and handles them okay.

Tynion's problem is Tim. Put Tim in the mix and the chances everyone starts acting out of character goes up by nearly 100%.

As was the case in Rebirth Tec and Robin 80th where Tynion wrote Damian and Tim in the same story. 

Those few issues of Tec and the one Robin 80th story when compared to 3 volumes of Tynion's Damian in Batman v TMNT [18 issue] the difference is clear.

The guy gets the character and knows how to write him he just gets overcome with his fanboyism when Tim is thrown into the mix

----------


## Fergus

> I admit, this is me since the age-up happened;


It is just wrong seeing Jon approving Damian looking like his a man approaching a kid.

Such a bone-heading decision aging him up the way they did.

----------


## GhostCryptid13

Yeah I know. I hope they reverse it with Bendis leaving and all

----------


## Astralabius

> Yeah I know. I hope they reverse it with Bendis leaving and all


I think Challenge of the Super Sons could be a sign that they are going to reverse it, even with it taking place in the past, since people have made their opinions on Bendis' age up pretty clear.
Then again, this could also be DC trying to have it both ways, which I'm not a fan of.
I hope the solicitations for March will clear up a lot of the uncertainty that surrounds Jon and Damian's roles in main continuity right now.

----------


## Korath

I really hope that Challenge of the Super sons is here to appease ian fans everywhere and DC carries on with Damian and teen Jon in the future. I mean, I just read what Tomasi has posted on twitter and, yeah, I hate this series already. It's as if he had forgotten everything which had made his Batman and Robin stellar, especially when it came to Damian, so I'm really starting to feel that it was Gleason who knew what he was doing with the boy...

----------


## Darkspellmaster

> I really hope that Challenge of the Super sons is here to appease ian fans everywhere and DC carries on with Damian and teen Jon in the future. I mean, I just read what Tomasi has posted on twitter and, yeah, I hate this series already. It's as if he had forgotten everything which had made his Batman and Robin stellar, especially when it came to Damian, so I'm really starting to feel that it was Gleason who knew what he was doing with the boy...


What did he post exactly?

----------


## Astralabius

> I really hope that Challenge of the Super sons is here to appease ian fans everywhere and DC carries on with Damian and teen Jon in the future. I mean, I just read what Tomasi has posted on twitter and, yeah, I hate this series already. It's as if he had forgotten everything which had made his Batman and Robin stellar, especially when it came to Damian, so I'm really starting to feel that it was Gleason who knew what he was doing with the boy...


Ian Wayne/The polar shield project is a completely different thing that has nothing to do with Tomasi.

----------


## Astralabius

> What did he post exactly?


Tomasi dared to post part of the script of page 2 from the first issue of Challenge of the Super Sons on his twitter account.
Jon and Damian are sitting in a library and doing schoolwork.
It's really not a big deal, but Korath apparently thinks Damian doing normal stuff before the story kicks off is a crime.

----------


## Blue22

I said it in the Jon thread too but its probably more appropriate here:

Of all things Tomasi's done with those two, I always thought putting them in school together was a bit much. Especially that one story that showed them in the same class. I don't know how private middle schools work but I didn't start taking classes with people in different grades until I was in high school.

For Damian, in particular, any kind of grade schooling just feels like a massive waste of time. He knows more than the teachers and the odds of him socializing with anyone but Jon in any meaningful way is slim to none. It's a cute set up, I guess, but it feels more like a dick move on Bruce's part lol

----------


## Korath

> Tomasi dared to post part of the script of page 2 from the first issue of Challenge of the Super Sons on his twitter account.
> Jon and Damian are sitting in a library and doing schoolwork.
> It's really not a big deal, but Korath apparently thinks Damian doing normal stuff before the story kicks off is a crime.


Way to ignore that, as always with super sons, Damian is the one being laughed at, not the one we laugh with. Which is why I call those versions of him who appears in any Supersons books Ian. Because they are just here to be pathetic, being ridiculed and generally speaking being unfuriatingly inept at anything.

Case in point : Damian refusing to be rendered unconscious when it is needed or him drooling and mulbling while speaking as his first appearance in the new series.

It sucks, it's detrimental to his whole character and progression but instead peoples prefer to lose their mind over TT where he was heroic and finally decided that he alone had the right to decide who he was.

Add to that the fact that Kid Jon's already exhausted allost any storyline worth having with this kind of character and it doesn't bode well for Damian because he's clearly here for the slapstick comedy and nothing more.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Way to ignore that, as always with super sons, Damian is the one being laughed at, not the one we laugh with. Which is why I call those versions of him who appears in any Supersons books Ian. Because they are just here to be pathetic, being ridiculed and generally speaking being unfuriatingly inept at anything.
> 
> Case in point : Damian refusing to be rendered unconscious when it is needed or him drooling and mulbling while speaking as his first appearance in the new series.
> 
> It sucks, it's detrimental to his whole character and progression but instead peoples prefer to lose their mind over TT where he was heroic and finally decided that he alone had the right to decide who he was.
> 
> Add to that the fact that Kid Jon's already exhausted allost any storyline worth having with this kind of character and it doesn't bode well for Damian because he's clearly here for the slapstick comedy and nothing more.


Dick Grayson went 30+ years before he got aged up. So saying another kid character "exhausted almost everytime storyline worth having this kind of character in" doesn't really work.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> I said it in the Jon thread too but its probably more appropriate here:
> 
> Of all things Tomasi's done with those two, I always thought putting them in school together was a bit much. Especially that one story that showed them in the same class. I don't know how private middle schools work but I didn't start taking classes with people in different grades until I was in high school.
> 
> For Damian, in particular, any kind of grade schooling just feels like a massive waste of time. He knows more than the teachers and the odds of him socializing with anyone but Jon in any meaningful way is slim to none. It's a cute set up, I guess, but it feels more like a dick move on Bruce's part lol


Children go to school to learn more than what their teachers tell them. Even if Damian is antisocial, he'll have to socialize more for classes and give him non-superhero related side characters.

I agree him going to the same school as Jon is a bit much. It's not like a friendship across different schools is that hard to believe and isn't supersons Jon much younger than Damian?

----------


## Blue22

> Children go to school to learn more than what their teachers tell them. Even if Damian is antisocial, he'll have to socialize more for classes and give him non-superhero related side characters.
> 
> I agree him going to the same school as Jon is a bit much. It's not like a friendship across different schools is that hard to believe and isn't supersons Jon much younger than Damian?


Yeah, they're 3 years apart. If I had to guess, Jon would be just starting middle school, whereas Damian should be in his last year of it.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Yeah, they're 3 years apart. If I had to guess, Jon would be just starting middle school, whereas Damian should be in his last year of it.


Damian has college level intellect

Built flying cars, 

He should go to school with Wally 2 and Tim drake not Jon

----------


## Fergus

> Damian has college level intellect
> 
> Built flying cars, 
> 
> He should go to school with Wally 2 and Tim drake not Jon


College level intellect Damian claims to have 3 PhD's. He should be a University professor. The issue where his teacher is pissed because Damian's Essay forced her to do some additional research just to grade his appear because Damian went OTT  in his quest for additional credit had me in stitches. 

Damian isn't attending School to learn. Bruce sent him so he can learn how social interactions work plus the added bonus of getting to experience life as a real boy doing regular normal stuff.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Tomasi dared to post part of the script of page 2 from the first issue of Challenge of the Super Sons on his twitter account.
> Jon and Damian are sitting in a library and doing schoolwork.
> It's really not a big deal, but Korath apparently thinks Damian doing normal stuff before the story kicks off is a crime.


I think what Korath meant is the "drool" and "snores". Damian has moved past his rigid sleeping posture around people whom he trust but he's still has a high pride, it's unlikely that he will let himself to look that....memeable on library when everyone can enter, even if he's only pretending. Tomasi pulled the same stint on B&R when Damian was asleep on table with chicken mush on his mouth, but at least only Bruce and Alfred who watched it. I already accept that Damian is Agent Carter for Jon's Inspector Lee, so I don't really mind that, but it's understandable that other Damian's fans like Korath has problem with it. 
For me I'll ignore it and reserve my judgement until I see the storyline. As Death Note fans I kinda interested with Doom Scroll plot.





> Yeah, they're 3 years apart. If I had to guess, Jon would be just starting middle school, whereas Damian should be in his last year of it.


I think they're on the same class only on Robin anniversary. On regular Supersons issue, looks lije they're on different class. For example when Damian answered teacher's question and his classmate threw things on him because he was excluded on teacher's quiz, there's no mention of Jon and his reaction. 
Indeed Damian doesn't need school, but enrolled him on grade higher than his age with people way older than him as his peer will only repeat what exactly the problem with Percy's TT. Kinda like Young Sheldon but with more blood. I think Damian is encouraged to have normal friend on his age, even though it doesn't yet successful.

----------


## Eckri

Speaking of schools. 
Damian should socialize more outside of Jon, we all know Bruce sent him there to socialize since he's a college level student, I if he's not going to school he's either at the manor 24/7 with his pets as company, or patrolling 24/7, actually that begs a question. What are Damian's hobbies?

Sure he currently has Maya, whatever happened to her? But the kid needs some new friends. 
Maybe, this could be the chance the re-introduce Collin Wilkes or some other friends he had before they were wiped out of recent memory.
His only _school friend_ I could think of is Maps, giving her a mask, batarang, and helping her out in the last issues of Gotham Academy. 

P.S. This is Damian's second school right? because he speed run his expulsion from Gotham Academy, don't know if he did that just to say "See father, I've beaten your recorded in getting expelled from the academy". Surprised he didn't pull any major stuff or get pulled into one to get a parent-principal meeting for his second school.

----------


## Fergus

> Speaking of schools. 
> Damian should socialize more outside of Jon, we all know Bruce sent him there to socialize since he's a college level student, I if he's not going to school he's either at the manor 24/7 with his pets as company, or patrolling 24/7, actually that begs a question. What are Damian's hobbies?
> 
> Sure he currently has Maya, whatever happened to her? But the kid needs some new friends. 
> Maybe, this could be the chance the re-introduce Collin Wilkes or some other friends he had before they were wiped out of recent memory.
> His only _school friend_ I could think of is Maps, giving her a mask, batarang, and helping her out in the last issues of Gotham Academy. 
> 
> P.S. This is Damian's second school right? because he speed run his expulsion from Gotham Academy, don't know if he did that just to say "See father, I've beaten your recorded in getting expelled from the academy". Surprised he didn't pull any major stuff or get pulled into one to get a parent-principal meeting for his second school.


He was undercover in Gotham Academy for a mission. I also wouldn't class Maps as his friend more an acquaintance.

Aside from Animal hoarding he likes music. He had that garage band with Jon and he was always listening to music in B&R.

He likes video games, enjoys acting/performing [he was attending drama lessons in B&R] and in pre flash point he expressed how he was a natural when it comes to acting. Lamenting that the undercover mission he was getting dressed for didn't call for a chance to flex his skills. he voiced his disappointment that the role wasn't something more challenging like pretend to be a girl.

Chess
Enjoys trolling people [I'm listing it as a hobby]
He also Paints as a form of relaxation. I think that's it

----------


## Astralabius

> Way to ignore that, as always with super sons, Damian is the one being laughed at, not the one we laugh with. Which is why I call those versions of him who appears in any Supersons books Ian. Because they are just here to be pathetic, being ridiculed and generally speaking being unfuriatingly inept at anything.
> 
> Case in point : Damian refusing to be rendered unconscious when it is needed or him drooling and mulbling while speaking as his first appearance in the new series.
> 
> It sucks, it's detrimental to his whole character and progression but instead peoples prefer to lose their mind over TT where he was heroic and finally decided that he alone had the right to decide who he was.
> 
> Add to that the fact that Kid Jon's already exhausted allost any storyline worth having with this kind of character and it doesn't bode well for Damian because he's clearly here for the slapstick comedy and nothing more.


TT Damian wasn't heroic at all. Did you miss the part where everyone hated him, he was called a monster and the whole team agreed that he was the root of all their problems?
You may have started hating the Teen Titans in that moment because you like Damian, but I doubt that that was Thompson's intent with this.
The book ended with the team going back to the ways of the Justice League and it's pretty obvious that their time with Damian is supposed to be seen as bad while their future with the Titans as good. You can be angry about this all you want, DC will not start portraying putting people in torture chambers or killing them as good. Especially when a member of the batfamily does it.

Super Sons is a book about two young boys, of course they are making fun of each other, especially at the beginning. You seem to not have read the moments where Jon fanboys over Damian being able to evade bullets or the Robin 80th anniversary special where Jon writes an entire essay about how great Damian is.

----------


## Light of Justice

> He was undercover in Gotham Academy for a mission. I also wouldn't class Maps as his friend more an acquaintance.
> 
> Aside from Animal hoarding he likes music. He had that garage band with Jon and he was always listening to music in B&R.
> 
> He likes video games, enjoys acting/performing [he was attending drama lessons in B&R] and in pre flash point he expressed how he was a natural when it comes to acting. Lamenting that the undercover mission he was getting dressed for didn't call for a chance to flex his skills. he voiced his disappointment that the role wasn't something more challenging like pretend to be a girl.
> 
> Chess
> Enjoys trolling people [I'm listing it as a hobby]
> He also Paints as a form of relaxation. I think that's it


He likes to read Classic books perhaps, he named his dog Titus and and on King he was shown reading a classic book but I don't remember the title. (That reminds me, the fact that he named his Bat-dragon Goliath means that there's Bible on LoA? I often read headcanon that Damian is Muslim, and as Muslimah I know that indeed there's David and Goliath on Quran, but on Quran their name is Daud and Jalut).

And not only paint, he likes to doodle on his sketchbook.

Speaking about undercover mission, he's able to mimic other people's voice too. And I remember he used his acting to get closer on Wally and stopped his heart.

----------


## Blue22

> I often read headcanon that Damian is Muslim, and as Muslimah I know that indeed there's David and Goliath on Quran, but on Quran their name is Daud and Jalut).


I've seen people say that they think Damian and the Al Ghuls are Muslim but...None of them really seem like the type to subscribe to any religion. Besides, with Ra's being one of the biggest terrorists in the DC Universe, and Damian just finishing a run where the writer had him strap a bomb to his chest, I think it might be for the best if they don't go down that particular rabbit hole with them. That might cause a lot of...issues. Keep it ambiguous maybe but I really don't think any of the Al Ghuls are very active in the Muslim faith.

It's the same thing that irked me about Tanya Spears being Christian and then making her so sterotypically naive and conservative. As a black Christian, that didn't make me feel "represented". That just made me cringe and think "Is that what they think we are?" 




> Speaking about undercover mission, he's able to mimic other people's voice too.


Has he ever done that, post-Flashpoint? I always thought that particular skill was forgotten. Which is a shame because that could really come in handy in a lot of situations.

----------


## Fergus

> TT Damian wasn't heroic at all. Did you miss the part where everyone hated him, he was called a monster and the whole team agreed that he was the root of all their problems?
> You may have started hating the Teen Titans in that moment because you like Damian, but I doubt that that was Thompson's intent with this.
> The book ended with the team going back to the ways of the Justice League and it's pretty obvious that their time with Damian is supposed to be seen as bad while their future with the Titans as good. You can be angry about this all you want, DC will not start portraying putting people in torture chambers or killing them as good. Especially when a member of the batfamily does it.
> 
> Super Sons is a book about two young boys, of course they are making fun of each other, especially at the beginning. You seem to not have read the moments where Jon fanboys over Damian being able to evade bullets or the Robin 80th anniversary special where Jon writes an entire essay about how great Damian is.


Returning to the way of the JL? Didn't the JL brain wash Bad guy' and good guys [Batman]

Haven't members of the JL killed

Doesn't heroic Batman have 2 secret Jails? Doesn't Batman use torture? Doesn't Alfred shoot bad guys? Haven't every member of the family killed [aside from Steph, Duke and Tim]

DC has no problem with promoting killers as characters fans should root for. View as heroic but grey.

I liked some parts of Damian on the last TT run. The fact that everyone ganged up on him and called him a monster is irrelevant and doesn't impact whether or not he was being heroic.

He was heroic. Sure adopted some harsher, darker methods in his attempts to make the world safer [a path we've seen seasoned top tier paragon's of virtue in the Universe walk in the past.]

hopefully he learns some lessons and hope the events of this run strengthens his resolve to become more than what he was raised to be. The team called him a monster. That's nothing new. People sometimes can't see past his blood and past. They think he's evil deep down and will turn bad anytime now.
Heck even some comics fans view him that way. The Demon Spawn [such a callous and hateful nickname]

This run did some damage to the character but he will move past it.

----------


## Fergus

> He likes to read Classic books perhaps, he named his dog Titus and and on King he was shown reading a classic book but I don't remember the title. (That reminds me, the fact that he named his Bat-dragon Goliath means that there's Bible on LoA? I often read headcanon that Damian is Muslim, and as Muslimah I know that indeed there's David and Goliath on Quran, but on Quran their name is Daud and Jalut).
> 
> And not only paint, he likes to doodle on his sketchbook.
> 
> Speaking about undercover mission, he's able to mimic other people's voice too. And I remember he used his acting to get closer on Wally and stopped his heart.


The book he was reading was Lady killer by Jonell Jones. It's a great read but not a Classic.

----------


## Blue22

> Returning to the way of the JL? Didn't the JL brain wash Bad guy' and good guys [Batman]
> 
> Haven't members of the JL killed
> 
> Doesn't heroic Batman have 2 secret Jails? Doesn't Batman use torture? Doesn't Alfred shoot bad guys? Haven't every member of the family killed [aside from Steph, Duke and Tim]
> 
> DC has no problem with promoting killers as characters fans should root for. View as heroic but grey.
> 
> I liked some parts of Damian on the last TT run. The fact that everyone ganged up on him and called him a monster is irrelevant and doesn't impact whether or not he was being heroic.
> ...


That's one thing I will give Damian in Glass' Titans. His heart was in the right place. And, honestly, nobody on that team had any room to criticize him when they'd gone along with most of what he was doing. Emiko, Wallace, and Djinn especially. That was the one thing I hated most about that run. All the blame kept falling on Damian, as if the rest of them were innocent. The biggest slaps in the face were definitely the very abrupt end to Djinn's arc (talk about a tonal whiplash), and Nighwing with his "Damian can't force you guys to be bad anymore" speech.

As for "going back to the ways of the Justice League", I get what Astralabius was trying to say but....I don't think the Titans would appreciate being compared to the League. That's like saying that the X-Men should "go back to the ways of the Avengers". The Titans aren't the League, nor are they any subset of the League. They've been at odds with the League enough times to prove that they do things their own way. Which is what made it all the more frustrating when Abnett's run had Dick caving into the League's demands for his team to be disbanded...and then reformed in a way that the League approved of.

----------


## adrikito

> I admit, this is me since the age-up happened;


Wow. My opinion about Superkid and SS.. Damian needs a cross to keep them away.

----------


## Digifiend

> Sure he currently has Maya, whatever happened to her?


She's with Beacon, looking after the Bizarro Super Sons.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I've seen people say that they think Damian and the Al Ghuls are Muslim but...None of them really seem like the type to subscribe to any religion. Besides, with Ra's being one of the biggest terrorists in the DC Universe, and Damian just finishing a run where the writer had him strap a bomb to his chest, I think it might be for the best if they don't go down that particular rabbit hole with them. That might cause a lot of...issues. Keep it ambiguous maybe but I really don't think any of the Al Ghuls are very active in the Muslim faith.
> 
> It's the same thing that irked me about Tanya Spears being Christian and then making her so sterotypically naive and conservative. As a black Christian, that didn't make me feel "represented". That just made me cringe and think "Is that what they think we are?"


Agreed, and indeed, the whole strapping bomb is just messed up. That's why I always pretend TT annual 1 never happened, along with Jason fiasco. And even if Glass wanted to make reference of Damian's Islamic status, he failed when he made Damian eat ox blood soup, because Muslim are not allowed to consume blood. So maybe he took Goliath name from other source, because I don't know about Bible, but in Quran Goliath/Jalut is not exactly admirable and definitely not unbeatable character. When we think about it, so is Titus Andronicus on Shakespeare. 
..............Along with Bat-Cow and Wiggle, and Alfred the Cat only took Alfred the Human's name, looks like Damian is not good at naming his pets  :Big Grin: 





> Has he ever done that, post-Flashpoint? I always thought that particular skill was forgotten. Which is a shame because that could really come in handy in a lot of situations.


On Supersons, he disguised as Jon's teacher, and even gave Jon's classmate real lecture, so high possibility that he mimicked the teacher's voice too.

----------


## Rac7d*

Next detective comics should finalize Damian role for the time being

----------


## Korath

> Next detective comics should finalize Damian role for the time being


Wouldn't it be 1033 ? Or I'm confusing the numbers before FS ?

----------


## Morgoth

> Next detective comics should finalize Damian role for the time being


It will be finalized in #1023.

----------


## Morgoth

They just almost completely ignored him in Last Stories of DC Universe, even in Batfamily story. Nice work, lol.
Upd. Sorry, it seems like artist screwed up, he was there, but I thought it's Tim.

----------


## Light of Justice

> They just almost completely ignored him in Last Stories of DC Universe, even in Batfamily story. Nice work, lol.
> Upd. Sorry, it seems like artist screwed up, he was there, but I thought it's Tim.


He is indeed Tim, but for I don't know since when he has yellow hood. It's not new for Damian to be ignored on Metal event. Even Crush said that he totally quits.
About today's Tec issue, I'm kinda confused. I don't think that he will be back as Robin, but some last pages implied that it can be the possibility.

----------


## Morgoth

> He is indeed Tim, but for I don't know since when he has yellow hood. It's not new for Damian to be ignored on Metal event. Even Crush said that he totally quits.
> About today's Tec issue, I'm kinda confused. I don't think that he will be back as Robin, but some last pages implied that it can be the possibility.


No, in the last scene it was Damian, Dick says at the beginning that Tim decided to stay and play more cards. And when he left, Dick called him by name. It's very easy to miss.
Artist screwed up, probably script was changed. Most likely when they were making the story, Tim was in that scene, and then, apparently, the plans changed, and they just changed the lines of dialogue, but left the drawing. I don't know how else to explain this carelessness.

----------


## Light of Justice

> No, in the last scene it was Damian, Dick says at the beginning that Tim decided to stay and play more cards. And when he left, Dick called him by name. It's very easy to miss.
> Artist screwed up, probably script was changed. Most likely when they were making the story, Tim was in that scene, and then, apparently, the plans changed, and they just changed the lines of dialogue, but left the drawing. I don't know how else to explain this carelessness.


OMG, when I re-read it again, it's so messed up. At first Tim has black cape and yellow hood, then Barbara called him and he left the table, said that he already defeated them anyway. Then Dick said Tim stayed on card table(?) playing his last round, with Damian on yellow cape and black hood. Then Damian's costume changed into yellow hood and black cape, same as Tim's previous costume. Then Damian has black cape and black hood again.
Looks like there's definitely a change on last minutes.

----------


## Morgoth

Yes, Damian was added at the last moment, probably because they really changed plans for him. This is the only moment where he appears, while they drew Tim there, but then they wrote that it was Damian, and Tim was left behind the scenes to play poker, lol.
In the Titans story, for example, he is absent, although everyone has appeared, even Jason.
In general, it looks like he remains Robin, given that the 'Tec arc takes place before Death Metal.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Yes, Damian was added at the last moment, probably because they really changed plans for him. This is the only moment where he appears, while they drew Tim there, but then they wrote that it was Damian, and Tim was left behind the scenes to play poker, lol.
> In the Titans story, for example, he is absent, although everyone has appeared, even Jason.
> In general, it looks like he remains Robin, given that the 'Tec arc takes place before Death Metal.


I think on Batfamily story it's supposed to be Damian from the start. The costume is Damian's, and I though he was Damian until Babs called him Tim. Looks like Tim is the one who was missing on original story, and get added on last minutes, to play poker XD
Man, poor Tim, I like this dude but it's obvious that now DC has no idea what to do with him.

----------


## Fergus

> I think on Batfamily story it's supposed to be Damian from the start. The costume is Damian's, and I though he was Damian until Babs called him Tim. Looks like Tim is the one who was missing on original story, and get added on last minutes, to play poker XD
> Man, poor Tim, I like this dude but it's obvious that now DC has no idea what to do with him.


Yeah I was also of the impression that it was supposed to be Damian from the start. 

It's gone past embarrassing for Tim now. The character needs a new id far away from Robin and side kick.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

Earth-11 Damian and Jon!  :Big Grin:

----------


## Fergus

> Earth-11 Damian and Jon!


Awwww Very Cute

----------


## Light of Justice

> Earth-11 Damian and Jon!


Where that panel come from?

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> Where that panel come from?


It's from DC's Very Merry Multiverse!

----------


## Fergus

> It's from DC's Very Merry Multiverse!


Guess I'll have to pick it up. My daughter will love this

----------


## Blue22

Not much to report on the Tec side of things. Just set up for what I assume will be the conclusion.

----------


## Korath

> Not much to report on the Tec side of things. Just set up for what I assume will be the conclusion.


Well, for me it was quite clear he isn't set up to be back as Robin, at least. But it may be whisful thinking.

----------


## Fergus

Gleason draws the best Damian





https://twitter.com/xuhannie

----------


## K. Jones

I haven't seen it pulled off pitch-perfectly yet but I'm really liking Damian's "I'm Not Robin" white costume. I loved his Grayson-Era first Robin costume and I loved how his Rebirth updates incorporated a bit of that Son of the Demon stuff subtly indicating he was losing his grip on being Robin. I'd really like to see them play around with his Frank Quitely concept art designs too as a sort of Mini-Batman version of Robin. The white/gray No Colors, No Emblems ninja look right now feels like a nice in-between, though - as well as a bit of a nod back to his Kubert original James Bond villain child design, but with Robin-Costume practical elements.

----------


## Rac7d*

IS  the next issue in january?

----------


## Digifiend

No. Detective Comics is a double shipper, there's another issue this month, then it gets replaced by Dark Detective for two months, resuming in March with a new writer.

----------


## Eckri

Based on reading Detective comics and the Last Stories.

Damian becomes Robin again after 1033 of Detective comic?
He was there in the Last Multiverse telling the Bat Fam members there, that he'll be seeing them all in the afterlife in his Robin costume. 
Or there's probably a time gap when he eventually becomes Robin again leading to Last Stories.

----------


## Rac7d*

Was damian in an issue of the Terrifics?

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> Was damian in an issue of the Terrifics?


Was he? I searched it, but couldn't find anything.


And one week until March solicitations comes out, I'm really nervous.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Was he? I searched it, but couldn't find anything.
> 
> 
> And one week until March solicitations comes out, I'm really nervous.


He is on the cover for their onibus, I do know they will just put anything on a cover

----------


## sifighter

Challenge of the Super Sons #1 is out today on comixology, more of Jon and Damian on fun little antics.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Challenge of the Super Sons #1 is out today on comixology, more of Jon and Damian on fun little antics.


I have read it, and maybe it's too early to judge but, I have to say good cop Jon bad cop Damian dynamic is really strong on that issue. 
*spoilers:*
 Their banter is cute and funny, although the part when Damian grumbled at Jon because Jon 'emergency spotted' is a mother who had massive grocery instead of criminals, and when Damian takes the mom's money is very OOC imo. Damian loves fight, but he's not the type to dislike helping civilian and definitely not the type to take money from civilian. 
*end of spoilers*
But again, it's only on first issue and the villain only appear on the end of issue, so maybe it's to early to judge. Moreover, as Deathnote fans I'm curious how they will utilized Doom Scroll on book like Supersons.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> I have read it, and maybe it's too early to judge but, I have to say good cop Jon bad cop Damian dynamic is really strong on that issue. 
> *spoilers:*
>  Their banter is cute and funny, although the part when Damian grumbled at Jon because Jon 'emergency spotted' is a mother who had massive grocery instead of criminals, and when Damian takes the mom's money is very OOC imo. Damian loves fight, but he's not the type to dislike helping civilian and definitely not the type to take money from civilian. 
> *end of spoilers*
> But again, it's only on first issue and the villain only appear on the end of issue, so maybe it's to early to judge. Moreover, as Deathnote fans I'm curious how they will utilized Doom Scroll on book like Supersons.


*spoilers:*
 Is it really OOC? it's kinda rude to not accept gifts in some cultures 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I just read the last Super Sons, I agree it is still early to jugde, but haven't liked they personality, Jon is more angry and less childish than before, he looks so ansious :/
I liked when Damian sked please for him ^^ funny funny

----------


## Light of Justice

> *spoilers:*
>  Is it really OOC? it's kinda rude to not accept gifts in some cultures 
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
well at least I think he will be reluctant to do so. I remember on Injustice 2 he was reluctant to accept civilian's money, and on Batman & Robin annual he helped civilians. But maybe it's only a joke and we are not supposed to take it seriously. The rest is good imo. Like when Damian solved the case that Jon investigated, seriously Jon, you asked everyone on school but not your detective best friend? And Damian is definitely the type that pissed off teacher, like Sheldon. 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Eckri

Well Damian is in the latest Death Metal issue, just way in the back with Catwoman. 
Dunno, if this means DC is planning to keep him in the dark with Future State or plans to just not use him for Future State. Who knows.

----------


## adrikito

> Gleason draws the best Damian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/xuhannie


Unfortunately Gleason and Maya are not here..  :Frown:

----------


## Rac7d*

> Well Damian is in the latest Death Metal issue, just way in the back with Catwoman. 
> Dunno, if this means DC is planning to keep him in the dark with Future State or plans to just not use him for Future State. Who knows.


No one has verdict in his status and do t know what’s to do with him
I remember this stuff when Tim was in limbo or dick was Grayson 

Thease larger books are not keeping track

----------


## SanityOrMadness

> No one has verdict in his status and do t know whats to do with him
> I remember this stuff when Tim was in limbo or dick was Grayson 
> 
> Thease larger books are not keeping track


Yeah, there's a bunch of out-of-date costumes hanging around [e.g., Burnside Batgirl, Michael Turner Supergirl(!)] amongst the cameos. When there's a cast'o'thousands, some mistakes will happen.

----------


## Jackalope89

Just read Challenge of the Super Sons as well.

*spoilers:*
A fun issue, just like how it was meant to be. Like Jon not wanting to rip his shirts anymore, and Damian 1 upping his teacher. As for Jon being "angry", I saw that as him being annoyed that he lost 2 weeks for nothing when Damian solved the issue without much trouble. But man, didn't realize how badly I needed just a simple and fun series like this. Like a palate cleanser.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Morgoth

It seems like Damian appeared alongside Bat-family at the end of latest Nightwing issue. Or another artist screwed up and draw Tim like a kid, who knows.

----------


## Dazai_Osamu

> It seems like Damian appeared alongside Bat-family at the end of latest Nightwing issue. Or another artist screwed up and draw Tim like a kid, who knows.


I bet it was Tim, he's supposed to be short, and Damian should be a tall ten.

----------


## Eckri

> I bet it was Tim, he's supposed to be short, and Damian should be a tall ten.


Judging by the hair, it seems like Damian.
The other seems to be Tim.

----------


## Fergus

> I bet it was Tim, he's supposed to be short, and Damian should be a tall ten.


Na that Robin looked too smol to be Tim. Not to mention the anime hair.

These types of comments pretty much demonstrate why 2 Robins is problematic and why Tim being only 3 years older than Damian is a problem.

DC needs to at least age up Tim, make RR distinct from Robin or give Damian a tan

----------


## SanityOrMadness

> Na that Robin looked too smol to be Tim. Not to mention the anime hair.
> 
> These types of comments pretty much demonstrate why 2 Robins is problematic and why Tim being only 3 years older than Damian is a problem.
> 
> DC needs to at least age up Tim, make RR distinct from Robin or give Damian a tan


The problem is that Tim is Robin in the upcoming Gotham Knights game. And DC want to reflect that. 

[I do think they need to "Nightwing" Tim at this point, but even before Other Media swung back to Tim, there's reasons the attempts haven't stuck - Red Robin is a really crappy name that isn't nearly distinctive enough (although I actually liked his Brett Booth N52 costume) and Drake-as-codename is worse, if not for the same reasons.]

----------


## Digifiend

> I bet it was Tim, he's supposed to be short, and Damian should be a tall ten.


No. Damian is 13 now, and 10 year old Jon was taller than him! Damian isn't tall at all.

----------


## Eckri

> The problem is that Tim is Robin in the upcoming Gotham Knights game. And DC want to reflect that. 
> 
> [I do think they need to "Nightwing" Tim at this point, but even before Other Media swung back to Tim, there's reasons the attempts haven't stuck - Red Robin is a really crappy name that isn't nearly distinctive enough (although I actually liked his Brett Booth N52 costume) and Drake-as-codename is worse, if not for the same reasons.]


With all the things going on, I really do think that Tim Drake's role as Robin is just perfect, too perfect that he can't escape it. That somehow, I think, he shadows over Damian as Robin. 
Unless, in the future there's a guy/gal that gets the Eureka to finally get Tim in a role that's not Robin perfectly, he's better off as Robin. 

As for Damian, well, honestly. He works better outside the Bat family, as a rookie vigilante. Codename? up to the writers, but I'm pitching on the Rokh. 
Also, is it just me, or would Stephanie Brown's Spoiler outfit go well with Damian. Maybe a color change, and it'll look good on the kid.

----------


## Konja7

> It seems like Damian appeared alongside Bat-family at the end of latest Nightwing issue. Or another artist screwed up and draw Tim like a kid, who knows.





> I bet it was Tim, he's supposed to be short, and Damian should be a tall ten.


Tim also appear in the latest Nightwing issue.

The Batfamily members there seems to be Bruce, Dick, Barbara, Tim and Damian.

----------


## CPSparkles

> With all the things going on, I really do think that Tim Drake's role as Robin is just perfect, too perfect that he can't escape it. That somehow, I think, he shadows over Damian as Robin. 
> Unless, in the future there's a guy/gal that gets the Eureka to finally get Tim in a role that's not Robin perfectly, he's better off as Robin. 
> 
> *As for Damian, well, honestly. He works better outside the Bat family, as a rookie vigilante*. Codename? up to the writers, but I'm pitching on the Rokh. 
> Also, is it just me, or would Stephanie Brown's Spoiler outfit go well with Damian. Maybe a color change, and it'll look good on the kid.


I'm curious, what are you basing this on? What stories do we have to show that Damian who is still learning how to fit into regular society and unlearn the habits drilled into him by the cult he grew up in works best outside the Batfamily?

If TT taught us one thing it's that Damian needs supervision and guidance. If Supersons taught us anything it's that Damian needs to spend more time learning how to be a real boy.

I don't think Damian at 13 should be on his own. I know he was left all alone at 10 and that gave us RSOB but that wasn't good for him and as soon as Bruce got his memory back he went looking for him. 

If the Bat office is focusing on bringing the family back together then the youngest shouldn't be left to his own devices. That's how we got where we are at the moment.

Tim as Robin impacts Damian same as Jason as Robin did Dick. Fans complained till Dick was settled in his new id and the new guy was no longer seen as an obstacle.

Tim should be over this hurdle already. The RR identity and series should have been that. DC shouldn't have faltered or given in to nostalgia. That was a successful series for Tim.

Sadly because they all share the same skills moving on to something unique isn't easy and fans are also resistant. Gotham can only take so many Batman-lites.

The irony is that characters like Batwing, Signal are the ones with the most potential to really thrive but DC isn't doing anything with them. They bring something to the table beyond allrounder with gadgets and detective skills

----------


## Morgoth

> I bet it was Tim, he's supposed to be short, and Damian should be a tall ten.


Jurgens liked several tweets on Twitter where he was thanked for adding Damian to his Christmas story, this is most likely confirmation.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> I bet it was Tim, he's supposed to be short, and Damian should be a tall ten.


Damian's 13/14

----------


## Drako

Damian new costume looks rad

----------


## Morgoth

Another question is what title he will get.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Damian new costume looks rad


Fingerless gloves? I.....suddenly remember my teenage phrase. Oh my god Damian is on teenage phrase :EEK!: 
So Damian will not come back as Robin? So new codename for him?

----------


## Drako

> Fingerless gloves? I.....suddenly remember my teenage phrase. Oh my god Damian is on teenage phrase
> So Damian will not come back as Robin? So new codename for him?


We'll know his new name this month probably. This new costume give me some Batman 666 vibes.

----------


## Korath

> Damian new costume looks rad


I'm so happy right now, you've no idea. Plus the arabesques on his gloves are just stunning.

----------


## OpaqueGiraffe17

Batboy maybe? It'd be funny if Damian has much more successful post-Robin career than Tim.

----------


## Morgoth

It will be incredibly ironic, if Damian, after stopping being Robin, gets his ongoing, and Tim, who once again became one, doesn't.

----------


## Avi

Aristocrat? Would fit with the outfit but doesn't speak of character growth. I just hope DC learned from Drake and Orphan and has thought of something more inspired.

----------


## Drako

> Aristocrat? Would fit with the outfit but doesn't speak of character growth. I just hope DC learned from Drake and Orphan and has thought of something more inspired.


One thing is certain, his codename will not be "Wayne".

----------


## the illustrious mr. kenway

His new look feels like a basic ninja outfit. I started thinking about "Ronin" "Genin" "Chonin" "Kage" etc.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

Very strong speculation that Joshua Williamson and Gleb Melnikov are working in a title with him, but we will see.

----------


## Hypo

https://twitter.com/Williamson_Josh/...07422126604290



https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...32870722289664

----------


## Avi

> His new look feels like a basic ninja outfit. I started thinking about "Ronin" "Genin" "Chonin" "Kage" etc.


Tbh it doesn't look ninja-like to me at all or at least not enough. What ninja would reveal their face _and_ leave fingerprints?

----------


## Astroman

> One thing is certain, his codename will not be "Wayne".


"The answer was always right in front of me!  I'll name myself after the scariest, most deadly, adolescent of 1970s horror movie fame!  The son of satan!  The antichrist himself!  I will be known as: DAMIEN!"

Jon Kent then breaks out laughing and throws a cream pie at the back of his head.

----------


## Frontier

> Very strong speculation that Joshua Williamson and Gleb Melnikov are working in a title with him, but we will see.


Did Wiliamson write him in those Metal tie-in's? I honestly forget.

----------


## Morgoth

Williamson, as far as I remember, was generally the reason why Damian appeared in Metal at all.



> https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...32870722289664


I take it as confirmation.

----------


## Blue22

So Damian is legit not Robin anymore but he's still with the family. I'm cool with that. And he looks great. Poor Tim though. Looks like he'll never be able to move on.

----------


## Drako

> So Damian is legit not Robin anymore but he's still with the family. I'm cool with that. Poor Tim though. Looks like he'll never be able to move on.


A couple more years and Tim can finally rock this masterpiece.

----------


## Frontier

> So Damian is legit not Robin anymore but he's still with the family. I'm cool with that. Poor Tim though. Looks like he'll never be able to move on.


Is this the third shortest Robin tenure? I think Damian got a few more years than Jason had. Steph is still the shortest. 

Although I think I'll need to give it a year or two to see whether DC cuts back and just makes him Robin again. 

Also...there always has to be so much drama when a character stops being Robin. Either you die, get disillusioned, or just have the identity ripped away from you. The only exception was Dick's OG Nightwing origin. It's kind of sad.

----------


## Blue22

> A couple more years and Tim can finally rock this masterpiece.


Sweet Jesus, that is hideous. But at this point,  it's the only place he can go lol

----------


## Blue22

> Is this the third shortest Robin tenure? I think Damian got a few more years than Jason had. Steph is still the shortest. 
> 
> Although I think I'll need to give it a year or two to see whether DC cuts back and just makes him Robin again. 
> 
> Also...there always has to be so much drama when a character stops being Robin. Either you die, get disillusioned, or just have the identity ripped away from you. The only exception was Dick's OG Nightwing origin. It's kind of sad.


I still think it's too soon for him to drop Robin since he still very much a kid (self sufficient as he may be). But as long as he's not straight up abandoning the family to go on his edgy teen angst crusade, I'm all good. His characterization is more important to me than his name and costume. And the costume looks great. Better than his Robin after Rebirth.

So I'm mostly satisfied. Jon may be a lost cause but it looks like Damian will be alright.

----------


## Frontier

> I still think it's too soon for him to drop Robin since he still very much a kid (self sufficient as he may be). But as long as he's not straight up abandoning the family to go on his edgy teen angst crusade, I'm all good. His characterization is more important to me than his name and costume.


I think it's too soon as well, but it is what it is. 

At least he won't have to deal with the Titans anymore.

----------


## Morgoth

If new alias won't work or WB will have some project with him as Robin (Gotham Knights sequel is the most obvious, or something else) they will quickly make him Robin again.
I hope Williamson at least will bring Maya back.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> Damian new costume looks rad


I love this Damian design, way cooler than the previous ones.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> So Damian is legit not Robin anymore but he's still with the family. I'm cool with that. And he looks great. Poor Tim though. Looks like he'll never be able to move on.


It's hilarious, tfw Damian gets a better chance at moving on from Robin than the character who has been out since the 90s. Hopefully, Damian's new codename is good too.

----------


## Korath

> It's hilarious, tfw Damian gets a better chance at moving on from Robin than the character who has been out since the 90s. Hopefully, Damian's new codename is good too.


I wonder if he'll be called The Heir or not. it could fit with his aristrocratic design and his "Son of Batman" style.

However, i don't think his placement entirely indicate that he's fully back with his father. I mean, I don't see Tim Fox, Ghost-Maker and Grifter as enemies of batman - even if they do seem to be on the more antagonistic side, I guess ?

----------


## Morgoth

> However, i don't think his placement entirely indicate that he's fully back with his father.


Latest Nightwing issue already indicated that.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> I wonder if he'll be called The Heir or not. it could fit with his aristrocratic design and his "Son of Batman" style.
> 
> However, i don't think his placement entirely indicate that he's fully back with his father. I mean, I don't see Tim Fox, Ghost-Maker and Grifter as enemies of batman - even if they do seem to be on the more antagonistic side, I guess ?


I agree. Excluding the villains, the characters around Damian are more rebellious or anti-hero like.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> Latest Nightwing issue already indicated that.


what happened in Nightwing?

----------


## Frontier

> I wonder if he'll be called The Heir or not. it could fit with his aristrocratic design and his "Son of Batman" style.
> 
> However, i don't think his placement entirely indicate that he's fully back with his father. I mean, I don't see Tim Fox, Ghost-Maker and Grifter as enemies of batman - even if they do seem to be on the more antagonistic side, I guess ?


Well, Harley's right next to Batman, so...

----------


## Korath

> Well, Harley's right next to Batman, so...


yeah but Scarecrows's right in the middle behind Oracle and Robin and Huntress. It does seems odd. At least harley has been shown willing to attempt redemption in Batman 105.

----------


## Drako

> what happened in Nightwing?

----------


## Jackalope89

Once again, "perfect picture" leaves Jason out. It took freakin' Tom Taylor in DCeased to have Jason in a family portrait.

----------


## Blue22

> 


So we know that's Damian? And that they didn't pull a Death Metal and draw Tim to look like him?




> Once again, "perfect picture" leaves Jason out. It took freakin' Tom Taylor in DCeased to have Jason in a family portrait.


Not gonna lie. I thought that was Jason across from Damian and that Tim was the one who was missing lol

----------


## Jackalope89

> So we know that's Damian? And that they didn't pull a Death Metal and draw Tim to look like him?


Pretty sure Tim is on the right, Damian is on the left.

----------


## scary harpy

> Damian new costume looks rad


Maybe Damian's new codename is Black Robin.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> 


thank you for sharing

----------


## Rac7d*

They must be waiting for the next detective comics before revealing his book

----------


## Restingvoice

> Damian new costume looks rad


Ooh yeah, I do like that.
Jason bringing in the big guns :P

----------


## CPSparkles

> They must be waiting for the next detective comics before revealing his book


Nope it seems that Williamson is going to be the Damian writer





https://twitter.com/Williamson_Josh/...07422126604290

----------


## Digifiend

I assume the book will be called _Damian, Son of Batman_?

----------


## CPSparkles

> Williamson, as far as I remember, was generally the reason why Damian appeared in Metal at all.
> 
> I take it as confirmation.


Yeah Williamson is the only one of the Snyder crew who doesn't treat Damian like the plague. He was the one that pitched Gotham Resistance after Snyder had already gone on record at a press conference stating that Damian would not be part of Metal because he reminds him of his son.

----------


## CPSparkles

> I assume the book will be called _Damian, Son of Batman_?


That's already a book

----------


## Blue22

> Yeah Williamson is the only one of the Snyder crew who doesn't treat Damian like the plague. He was the one that pitched Gotham Resistance after Snyder had already gone on record at a press conference stating that Damian would not be part of Metal because he reminds him of his son.


I have to seriously question one's parenting skills if anything about Damian, other than his appearance, reminds them of their own child XD

----------


## Badou

That new costume doesn't look great, but I guess if he gets a solo title then it doesn't matter a whole lot. I still don't really get why they would move him out of the Robin identity when they were trying to sell him as Robin and build him up in other media as that for so long. It doesn't really make sense. I know people like Tynion who are leading the Batman franchise now are MASSIVE Tim fans, so I guess they wanted Tim to be the only Robin for a while? To me all this seems to do is prove that Tim isn't a strong enough character to survive outside the Robin identity and I guess we are going to see if Damian can now. I guess he won't be Red X either if that is already his new costume.

----------


## Frontier

> That new costume doesn't look great, but I guess if he gets a solo title then it doesn't matter a whole lot. I still don't really get why they would move him out of the Robin identity when they were trying to sell him as Robin and build him up in other media as that for so long. It doesn't really make sense. I know people like Tynion who are leading the Batman franchise now are MASSIVE Tim fans, so I guess they wanted Tim to be the only Robin for a while? To me all this seems to do is prove that Tim isn't a strong enough character to survive outside the Robin identity and I guess we are going to see if Damian can now. I guess he won't be Red X either if that is already his new costume.


Is it time to say the 90's are making a comeback again  :Stick Out Tongue: ?

----------


## Eckri

I'm digging the new costume, the question is Damian shtick. 
Nightwing is the friendly neighborhood vigilante 
Red Hood's the mercenary 
Robin is the leader/detective
and Damian's? Anyone has guesses?

For the codename, it's up to anyone. The costume makes it look like he's an Assassin's Creed innitiate.

----------


## charliehustle415

Man, what I wouldn't do for a Batman 666 title. 

If DC doesn't want Damian be Robin just have him disappear and show up in the future where the series focuses on what happened to him and when he made his deal with the devil

----------


## Blue22

Am I the only who hates the entire concept of Batman 666? Starting with the costume? XD

----------


## Blue22

> I'm digging the new costume, the question is Damian shtick. 
> Nightwing is the friendly neighborhood vigilante 
> Red Hood's the mercenary 
> Robin is the leader/detective
> and Damian's? Anyone has guesses?


He's already been shown dabbling in magic and occult stuff more than the other Robins (Hell he almost had a magic girlfriend) Maybe they could keep exploring that side of him. A serious with him going on some dark/mystical adventures. Just....without selling his soul to the devil. We saw how those deals worked out for Spiderman and Mary Jane lol

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> He's already been shown dabbling in magic and occult stuff more than the other Robins (Hell he almost had a magic girlfriend) Maybe they could keep exploring that side of him. A serious with him going on some dark/mystical adventures. Just....without selling his soul to the devil. We saw how those deals worked out for Spiderman and Mary Jane lol


True, he has Goliath too. The Al Ghul's have some occult ties too.

----------


## Eckri

> He's already been shown dabbling in magic and occult stuff more than the other Robins (Hell he almost had a magic girlfriend) Maybe they could keep exploring that side of him. A serious with him going on some dark/mystical adventures. Just....without selling his soul to the devil. We saw how those deals worked out for Spiderman and Mary Jane lol


Damian being the second person involving the Bat family to know some magic, the first being Zatanna like common she was Bruce's childhood friend, I can dig it. 
In relations with that gender-bent counter part, the chances of seeing a Klarion and Damian team up would be amazing.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Damian being the second person involving the Bat family to know some magic, the first being Zatanna like common she was Bruce's childhood friend, I can dig it. 
> In relations with that gender-bent counter part, the chances of seeing a Klarion and Damian team up would be amazing.


Imagine a spellblade for Damian

----------


## Blue22

> Imagine a spellblade for Damian


Doesn't Jason have something similar?

----------


## DragonPiece

Really happy for Damian fans, and it's not even just a backup story or something, it seems like Damian is getting his own solo book. Especially happy we are getting Talia as a good mother content.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Doesn't Jason have something similar?


The All-Blades. Very effective against magical beings. Usually Untitled, but sometimes an Undead Amazon as well.

While Jason hasn't dabbled in spellwork himself, he has with the occult and even had an ex-girlfriend from a hidden group of mystic warriors going back millennia that not only turns into smoke, but also can be visible to some, but invisible to others if she wants to be.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> Really happy for Damian fans, and it's not even just a backup story or something, it seems like Damian is getting his own solo book. Especially happy we are getting *Talia as a good mother content.*


was this hinted at in an interview?

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> was this hinted at in an interview?


Joshua Williamson just shared this picture of Talia and Damian

----------


## Korath

> Am I the only who hates the entire concept of Batman 666? Starting with the costume? XD


Well, I don't hate it per se, it's good for a one-shot and certainly somewhat intruiguing. But as the definitive future version of Damian, yeah, I don't like it much. For starter, the uber collar doesn't work at all for me, and the idea that Damian, who has ben trained almost since birth to fight crime wouldn't be as good - if in a different way - than Bruce or Dick kind of rub me the wrong way.

It's an excellent story, but just not what I'd want for a sustainable series, basically.

----------


## Digifiend

> That's already a book


Yeah, a four issue mini from the New 52 era. Makes sense to bring that name back, considering Damian isn't Robin any more.

----------


## Morgoth

Solicits leaked on 4chan.
Damian's story is back-up for Batman and Detective Comics. And he's still called Robin, lol.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Solicits leaked on 4chan.
> Damian's story is back-up for Batman and Detective Comics. And he's still called Robin, lol.


Batman's monologue on Tomasi's leak also said that "when we(Bruce and Damian) take down criminals, Batman & Robin, just has a certain ring to it, and always will". 
Bruce, your denial is showing

----------


## Morgoth

Damian is also present on Infinite Frontier cover.

----------


## Blue22

> Solicits leaked on 4chan.
> Damian's story is back-up for Batman and Detective Comics. And he's still called Robin, lol.


That's....Quite an interesting costume he's got if he's still Robin lol




> Well, I don't hate it per se, it's good for a one-shot and certainly somewhat intruiguing. But as the definitive future version of Damian, yeah, I don't like it much. For starter, the uber collar doesn't work at all for me, and the idea that Damian, who has ben trained almost since birth to fight crime wouldn't be as good - if in a different way - than Bruce or Dick kind of rub me the wrong way.
> 
> It's an excellent story, but just not what I'd want for a sustainable series, basically.


The whole thing just wasn't my cup of tea. Even as just an elseworlds' one-shot, I just couldn't vibe with it.

----------


## Morgoth

It is likely that he will receive a new alias in the course of Williamson's plot, but so far he is considered Robin.
Tim is not in solicits at all, by the way. I have a very bad feeling about his generation, to be honest. Damian, on the other side, is clearly safe.

----------


## Konja7

> That's....Quite an interesting costume he's got if he's still Robin lol


Well, Damian is clearly inspired by current Barbara's Batgirl suit.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

I asked Gleb Melnikov and he said there's more about the project he's doing!!

----------


## Drako

> I asked Gleb Melnikov and he said there's more about the project he's doing!!


Thanks! So, if he is saying it is huge, it can't be only two back-ups for Batman and TEC.

----------


## Morgoth

So, this back-up story arc is probably leading for full-series with Damian, I guess.
Pretty much expected, since it's nonsense to keep Williamson as back-up writer.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

It's getting interesting...

gleb 2.jpg

----------


## Rac7d*

> It's getting interesting...
> 
> gleb 2.jpg


Looks like Damian is secure

----------


## DragonPiece

> It's getting interesting...
> 
> gleb 2.jpg


Nice, I was getting somewhat worried.

----------


## Blue22

Damian among the heroes. This is good.

----------


## Drako

> “Demon or Detective” is a two-part story in the back of Batman and Detective Comics that’s sets up big things for Damian in the DCU! The art that 
> @GlebMelnikov8  is doing is insane!


https://twitter.com/Williamson_Josh/...92275888181250

----------


## Drako

https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...618308/photo/1

----------


## SanityOrMadness

> Tim is not in solicits at all, by the way. I have a very bad feeling about his generation, to be honest. Damian, on the other side, is clearly safe.


Well, Kon's in Suicide Squad(!) as a tie-in to him leading that group in Future State, Bart is on the main Flash cover, Tim is on the big group shot "Infinite Mysteries" Batman variant beside Oracle), and Cassie is on the "Infinite Legends" Wonder Woman variant (and the "Infinite" covers do largely seem to relate to the planned status quos, hence Barbara being shown as Oracle, for instance. The "Infinite Adventures" Justice League cover most of all - Kon's shown in his Johns-era black T-shirt on that as part of the Suicide Squad)




> https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...618308/photo/1


Every artist who has to draw those gloves going forward is going to curse whoever designed that costume.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Well, Kon's in Suicide Squad(!) as a tie-in to him leading that group in Future State, Bart is on the main Flash cover, Tim is on the big group shot "Infinite Mysteries" Batman variant beside Oracle), and Cassie is on the "Infinite Legends" Wonder Woman variant (and the "Infinite" covers do largely seem to relate to the planned status quos, hence Barbara being shown as Oracle, for instance. The "Infinite Adventures" Justice League cover most of all - Kon's shown in his Johns-era black T-shirt on that as part of the Suicide Squad)
> 
> 
> 
> Every artist who has to draw those gloves going forward is going to curse whoever designed that costume.


Connor also became a fan favorite from Titans last year, I think he’s securing himself in DC overall 

Tim and Cassie are part of large cast in titles that don’t really belong to them anymore

----------


## Restingvoice

Solicit's out

Plus, the backup story "Demon or Detective" begins as Damian Wayne is on the run! After everything Damian has gone through, can he escape Gotham and find his way back to where his journey started—to his mother, Talia al Ghul? This two-part tale concludes this month in Detective Comics #1034!

Plus, in the second and concluding chapter of "Demon or Detective," Damian Wayne meets a startling new faction from his family's checkered past...but what is the League of Lazarus?

----------


## adrikito

Sounds interesting. Thanks...




> Damian among the heroes. This is good.



DAMNIT.. Again he will appear in a comic with Superkid. So.. IS DEFINITIVE.. This will be Damian NEW COSTUME..


Attachment 103315

He looks like some Kind of Ninja with that costume.. Maybe it fits him.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> Damian among the heroes. This is good.


Damian Wayne is 100% not Red X now.

----------


## Astralabius

> Am I the only who hates the entire concept of Batman 666? Starting with the costume? XD


No.
The costume is ugly and the concept is not appealing to me at all.

----------


## Blue22

> Damian Wayne is 100% not Red X now.


Good. I love the Titans. I love Damian. I love the idea of Damian being a Titan. But after the fiasco that the last couple of years have been, the two don't need to be involved with each other again for a looooong time. Though, given the direction that the Titans are going in now, it would have been a nice opportunity to get him working with Dick again.

----------


## Frontier

> Damian among the heroes. This is good.


He looks pretty angry to me. 

I don't know, I must be one of the few who don't care for the costume. It works in a low-key ninja way but it's just too plain to me. 

Also, Harley, get out of the group shot  :Mad: .

----------


## Blue22

> He looks pretty angry to me. .


Eh. That's just typical Damian lol

----------


## Restingvoice

> No.
> The costume is ugly and the concept is not appealing to me at all.


The costume, especially. Looks like a leather bath robe. A... bat-robe




> Eh. That's just typical Damian lol


Resting Damian Face

----------


## Katana500

Im feeling pretty optimistic. I hope Damian gets his own unique superhero identity. I truly believe he will follow in the footsteps of Nightwing and Red Hood and carve a unique post robin path! 

Reckon a new book announced in April?

----------


## sifighter

> https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...618308/photo/1


I thought it was just a random design, but I think thats either some kind of language or Damian wrote magic words on his gloves. Maybe it is bad design, but I get the feeling like its not just squiggles.

----------


## Frontier

> Im feeling pretty optimistic. I hope Damian gets his own unique superhero identity. I truly believe he will follow in the footsteps of Nightwing and Red Hood and carve a unique post robin path! 
> 
> Reckon a new book announced in April?


Am I the only one who feels, justified or not, that it's way too soon for that?

----------


## Blue22

> Im feeling pretty optimistic. I hope Damian gets his own unique superhero identity. I truly believe he will follow in the footsteps of Nightwing and Red Hood and carve a unique post robin path!


Now that I'm like...mostly certain the path he's carving out isn't the doom and gloom one that he was on in Teen Titans, I'm pretty excited to see where he goes from here. I'd have been fine with him going back to Robin. But I'm fine with this too.

----------


## Morgoth

Williamson is one of the key figures in the development of Infinite Frontier, the fact that he writes Damian is a very good sign for the character.
I think there will be a book in April, or a little bit later, maybe summer.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Am I the only one who feels, justified or not, that it's way too soon for that?


Way way too soon. For me Robin Damian haven't reached his peak yet. He has very little issues when he became Robin on Bruce's side, first because of Bruce's death, second because of his death (Damian spent almost half of Tomasi's B&R books while being dead), third because of Synder. Some fans even said that Damian never felt like Robin for Bruce, which is just not true but sadly I can see why people can think of that. Tim was also often went solo on his tenure as Robin, but he never felt like deliberately pushed away from Batman books. Damian spent most on his Robin time without any other from his generation to be his counterpart (Chris was scrapped) and finally on Rebirth when he got some young hero on his generation, Jon got age up, Emiko and Wallace good relationship with Damian that Percy built on his TT was ruined on Glass's TT, then he quits Robin title when his generation just on process to be built (Yara, Andy, West twins back).

And he's only 13. He's too young to work solo, that's why I kinda glad that he at least has his mother on later issues. Even though not gonna lie I was excited on the prospect of Damian solo books.

----------


## Light of Justice

> It is likely that he will receive a new alias in the course of Williamson's plot, but so far he is considered Robin.
> Tim is not in solicits at all, by the way. I have a very bad feeling about his generation, to be honest. Damian, on the other side, is clearly safe.


After all that happened, I will be surprised if DC doesn't relaunch Young Justice on future era. I think they will wait after Robin title mess, Superboy mess (I don't know much about Superfam but looks like now there's 2 Conner?), and Yara introduction to relaunch the books. Admittedly, looks like Tim's generation get 'middle child' treatment.

----------


## Light of Justice

> https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...618308/photo/1


Okay, I admit that the half fingerless gloves started to grown on me. But still, Dami, you are on the run and the son of greatest detective, what about you finger print? Will you start picking up things with your middle and ring fingers? Is that some kind of new ninja training?

----------


## Astralabius

> Am I the only one who feels, justified or not, that it's way too soon for that?


No. I honestly just want a book where Damian gets to be Robin in peace for some time. He's also too young to move on in my opinion. He shouldn't be alone at this age, so I hope we'll get good writing for Talia in the upcoming story.
If anyone is truly in need of a unique post Robin identity it's Tim Drake.

----------


## scary harpy

> No. I honestly just want a book where Damian gets to be Robin in peace for some time. He's also too young to move on in my opinion. He shouldn't be alone at this age, so I hope we'll get good writing for Talia in the upcoming story.
> If anyone is truly in need of a unique post Robin identity it's Tim Drake.


Agreed.

10 characters

----------


## CPSparkles

> Am I the only one who feels, justified or not, that it's way too soon for that?


 I also think it's too soon for Damian to take a new identity. Both in story and real world.

Damian hasn't even mastered simple regular society social relations and is still unlearning some of the LOA's conditioned behaviour. He's too young. 

He's too young and emotionally stunted to be making such a move.

However I don't believe Damian is about to get a new id. I think he is just going to go back to Robin. I think there was an attempt to get him out of the mantle that is being walked back or is currently in contention.

I get that DC is currently in a state of flux but they are not that dis organised that they can be so confused about the Robin issue.  Not to mention that for Tynion a huge Tim fan boy to not make a big seal of Tim becoming Robin again officially makes me feel like there's no change.

he couldn't shut about Babs as Oracle or Cass and Spoiler getting to be Batgirls
He made such a huge fuss of Tim as Robin again when the BTAS comic series was announced

He also can't stop dropping hints about being in frequent contact WB Montreal re the Gotham Knights game [even asking them recently to drop a Clown hunter easter egg/promo/mention ]

Tynion staying quite on a status quo change for Tim raises questions.

----------


## CPSparkles

> 


Seems to be missing a couple of characters.  Jason and Titus?

Ric is back to Dick confirmed judging by that garish festive sweater he's rocking.

----------


## Frontier

> I also think it's too soon for Damian to take a new identity. Both in story and real world.
> 
> Damian hasn't even mastered simple regular society social relations and is still unlearning some of the LOA's conditioned behaviour. He's too young. 
> 
> He's too young and emotionally stunted to be making such a move.
> 
> However I don't believe Damian is about to get a new id. I think he is just going to go back to Robin. I think there was an attempt to get him out of the mantle that is being walked back or is currently in contention.
> 
> I get that DC is currently in a state of flux but they are not that dis organised that they can be so confused about the Robin issue.  Not to mention that for Tynion a huge Tim fan boy to not make a big seal of Tim becoming Robin again officially makes me feel like there's no change.
> ...


Yeah, Tynion's saying Harley is trying to be Batman's new Robin, which...yeah. 



> Seems to be missing a couple of characters.  Jason and Titus?
> 
> Ric is back to Dick confirmed judging by that garish festive sweater he's rocking.


I think that's Ace.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Yeah, Tynion's saying Harley is trying to be Batman's new Robin, which...yeah.


I think some writers [who don't have the numbers to match where they've landed] are so desperate for sales that they resort to gimmicks like pandering, tossing in the hottest sales-guaranteed characters [who cares if their inclusion makes sense] knock off's dressed as originals to drive up sales rather than focus on the story.

King managed to sustain a successful 4 year run with a carrot on a stick and some well aimed tweets/teases. Heck! He's still doing it.

----------


## CPSparkles

Re the Batman 666debate; I like that Batman a lot. His world, his costume and wanted to see more. It makes sense that a kid as insecure as Damian with all the expectations forced on him from birth will likely feel inferior. Add to that the mind job his upbringing/parental figures did on him then it makes sense for him to worry about measuring up to Dick and Bruce's legacy.

It's also worthwhile to note that that world was conceptualised based on pre growth Damian. That future was a what if for a Character that did not get a redemption journey. A character that didn't die for others. A character who didn't try and try to change.  Damian that isn't the hero we've seen. Damian who hasn't learned from all the trails and tribulations along the way.

I feel that current Damian's future should be different.

Unrelated


https://www.cbr.com/interview-ben-ab...-future-state/

Batman Editor Ben Abernathy Teases the Bat-Family's Role in Future State and Beyond

----------


## brandnewfan

Why are they doing a backup story rather than just giving Damian his own solo title again?

I don’t think I’ll be buying Batman/Detective just to get this back up.  It sucks because I love Gleb’s art and having him working on my favorite character is going to be fun.  But books at $3.99/4.99 just to read the back up story? No thanks.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Why are they doing a backup story rather than just giving Damian his own solo title again?
> 
> I don’t think I’ll be buying Batman/Detective just to get this back up.  It sucks because I love Gleb’s art and having him working on my favorite character is going to be fun.  But books at $3.99/4.99 just to read the back up story? No thanks.


Again those are two of DC best selling titles it’s like being an opening act for taylor swift

----------


## the1&onlyE.

Gleb Melnikov teased that there's another new costume for Damian. I'm honestly loving the way he's just freely dropping a bunch of hints!

----------


## Morgoth

> Why are they doing a backup story rather than just giving Damian his own solo title again?


There's a chance it's leading to his solo book later. Or at least something starring him.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Gleb Melnikov teased that there's another new costume for Damian. I'm honestly loving the way he's just freely dropping a bunch of hints!


 To go along with his new identity

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Where will Damiam appears next??

I have 2 opinions:
1- maybe DC want Tim being Robin so in future he will move by himself, not for being replaced/fired.
2- I still see no sense in Damian becoming independent, I still prefer him with a tuto
**be Robin really means no independence? Because all boys cutted contact with Bruce when they became tt or yj leaders, I think dependence is more about have someone taking care of you. Bruce was not paying attention on Damian for 1 year? Change clothes or ID is more make official.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

This broke my Damian as Flame Bird dream TuT)/

----------


## Rac7d*

> Where will Damiam appears next??
> 
> I have 2 opinions:
> 1- maybe DC want Tim being Robin so in future he will move by himself, not for being replaced/fired.
> 2- I still see no sense in Damian becoming independent, I still prefer him with a tuto
> **be Robin really means no independence? Because all boys cutted contact with Bruce when they became tt or yj leaders, I think dependence is more about have someone taking care of you. Bruce was not paying attention on Damian for 1 year? Change clothes or ID is more make official.


What do mean by next you mean after his backup?

----------


## Konja7

> Gleb Melnikov teased that there's another new costume for Damian. I'm honestly loving the way he's just freely dropping a bunch of hints!


Yeah. I suspect the current suit wouldn't be permanent. I wonder how his new suit will look.





> To go along with his new identity


It is also possible the new suit will be more similar to the Robin suit. So, Damian returns to Robin at the end.

----------


## Blue22

> Gleb Melnikov teased that there's another new costume for Damian. I'm honestly loving the way he's just freely dropping a bunch of hints!


That's actually really disappointing. I think his current suit is the best thing he's worn.

----------


## Godlike13

There should be no new identity. Damian’s whole issue is how it doesn’t work. So for him to quit Robin only to adopt a new theatrical superhero like identity would undermine that point. Just have him be Damian Wayne. Or maybe call him Nameless if he absolutely needs one.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> What do mean by next you mean after his backup?


The last time I saw Damian had a fight with Bruce, after this which comic he appears?
It's so confuse when you need to read many titles for follow 1 story ><

----------


## Light of Justice

> The last time I saw Damian had a fight with Bruce, after this which comic he appears?
> It's so confuse when you need to read many titles for follow 1 story ><


After Teen Titans annual 2, Damian's stories are on Detective comic 1029-1033. There's no mention of Damian on Future State and looks like he will not be Red X (thank God), then on March he will be on Batman and Detective Comics back-ups (on later issues after main stories). He also appeared on Metal:Last Stories and latest Nightwing but since on former he was called Tim on some pages and on latter he has no dialogue, I advise you to skip it.

----------


## Morgoth

> The last time I saw Damian had a fight with Bruce, after this which comic he appears?
> It's so confuse when you need to read many titles for follow 1 story ><


Read current 'Tec arc. Also he briefly appears in last issue of Nightwing and Bat-family story in Last Stories of DC Universe, but chronologically they're happening after 'Tec.
After that he set to star in back-up stories in Batman and 'Tec in March. And there's a chance that he's getting his own series after that.

----------


## Rac7d*

> The last time I saw Damian had a fight with Bruce, after this which comic he appears?
> It's so confuse when you need to read many titles for follow 1 story ><


He has recently been appearing as n detective comics

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Read current 'Tec arc. Also he briefly appears in last issue of Nightwing and Bat-family story in Last Stories of DC Universe, but chronologically they're happening after 'Tec.
> After that he set to star in back-up stories in Batman and 'Tec in March. And there's a chance that he's getting his own series after that.


Thanks, I thought I lost something since Damian and Bruce didn't really reconcile but he appeared in Nightwing, but is the weird chronologic '^^ ooohhh I would love Damian's own title again TuT

----------


## Eckri

> And there's a chance that he's getting his own series after that.


If per say, Damian did get his own series. 
Who's his existing potential supporting cast, antagonist, and tone of his series. 
Existing? Maya, Maps, that one kid from RSOB, and maybe Collin Wilkes if they brought him back.
Antagonist? I'd guess something to do with the League of Assassins.
and tone...anyone's guess.

----------


## Astralabius

> If per say, Damian did get his own series. 
> Who's his existing potential supporting cast, antagonist, and tone of his series. 
> Existing? Maya, Maps, that one kid from RSOB, and maybe Collin Wilkes if they brought him back.
> Antagonist? I'd guess something to do with the League of Assassins.
> and tone...anyone's guess.


Joshua Williamson and Gleb Melnikov posted some art from the back ups on twitter so we know Damian will return to Talia. Who as far as I remember was not part of the league of assassins last time we saw her. But the solicitations mention the League of Lazarus so the league of assassins will be in this.
At first I thought they were a new addition to the loa for this story, but Williamson actually already used them in Batman/Superman #7.
Ra's explained that they are elite soldiers trained by him since birth to keep the Lazarus Pits safe.
If that is their only purpose then we have to ask the question why Damian would come in contact with them.
What does he want with the pits? Trying to destroy them wouldn't be an unusual plot, but maybe he wants to use them instead?
DC has tried to make Damian's current drama all about Alfred's death, so I wouldn't be suprised if they went in that direction.

----------


## Light of Justice

> If per say, Damian did get his own series. 
> Who's his existing potential supporting cast, antagonist, and tone of his series. 
> Existing? Maya, Maps, that one kid from RSOB, and maybe Collin Wilkes if they brought him back.
> Antagonist? I'd guess something to do with the League of Assassins.
> and tone...anyone's guess.


Sad to say this, but I think Maya is dead case. Same with Colin. Maps got her own exposure on Black and White so she has higher chance to be used for Damian stories than those two, but with her personality and direction that Damian will go through, I don't see how she can be used as Damian's supporting cast. Because Damian's next stories will be heavily related with League of Assassin, they can use some league member we know like Mara and Ravi to be Damian's supporting cast. AND GOLIATH. THAT'S A MUST. 

For villains, Heretic's fate after their last (very lame) fight remains unclear, so he can be his antagonist. Who knows, maybe League of Lazarus were the group that resurrected him, I vaguely remember Heretic said that there's a group on LoA who revive him because they think it's such a waste to see unused Al Ghul blood. And on Batman/Superman Ra's said that League of Lazarus is guardian of Lazarus pit, so naturally they has access on Lazarus Pit. He also still hold Book of Damned and Black Casebook on him. Looks like his next journey will be on supernatural realm.

----------


## brandnewfan

> There's a chance it's leading to his solo book later. Or at least something starring him.


Has there been any hinting of this by anyone at DC or just fan guessing?  Hopefully that happens.

As it is now, I dont think Ill be getting the two backups.  Just too expensive for me and I no longer read Batman or Tec so its a lot of money for a backup story.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Has there been any hinting of this by anyone at DC or just fan guessing?  Hopefully that happens.
> 
> As it is now, I don’t think I’ll be getting the two backups.  Just too expensive for me and I no longer read Batman or ‘Tec so it’s a lot of money for a backup story.


The backup will lead to his next solo series

----------


## Morgoth

> Has there been any hinting of this by anyone at DC or just fan guessing?


Williamson and Melnikov hinted they're working on something big, which will be set by back-ups. But we, probably, will find out what it is in April solicits.

----------


## Fergus

> Am I the only one who feels, justified or not, that it's way too soon for that?


I agree that's it's too soon for Damian to give up Robin

Also

Is he giving up Robin? I know he quit but he is still marketed as Robin.

I don't think Damian needs a new id [new costume or not] He can be Damian Wayne while he has his little soul search.

It's not like he cares about secret identities walking around Gotham as Damian Wayne while vigilanting, disarming high profile ex-cops and casually mentioning his super villain mum's name as we saw in Tec.

----------


## Fergus

> Again those are two of DC best selling titles it’s like being an opening act for taylor swift


You are not wrong. That's a majority of DC's readers right there but that doesn't = solo title.

Lets be real, Whether Damian gets a solo depend on fans response. showing DC there's a demand for it by voting with with Wallets [critical response is good but not really a decider]

DC's cutting cost's. Look at the recent solicits, only the trinity, teams /anthologies and Nightwing. Titles that pretty much are guaranteed to sell only. Honestly I feel that the likelihood of Damian getting a solo depends on sales of these backups,  the sales of the Supersons Digital series or even better Damian Figures and such.

Fan reaction and demands brought back Supersons and these backups

In a recent interview posted on this site, the Batman Group Editor said fans have been asking "where's Damian?"
[DC is listening which is good] and they are willing to deliver so long as it makes money for them.

That's really it. If it makes money then DC will keep pushing it.

----------


## Rac7d*

> You are not wrong. That's a majority of DC's readers right there but that doesn't = solo title.
> 
> Lets be real, Whether Damian gets a solo depend on fans response. showing DC there's a demand for it by voting with with Wallets [critical response is good but not really a decider]
> 
> DC's cutting cost's. Look at the recent solicits, only the trinity, teams /anthologies and Nightwing. Titles that pretty much are guaranteed to sell only. Honestly I feel that the likelihood of Damian getting a solo depends on sales of these backups,  the sales of the Supersons Digital series or even better Damian Figures and such.
> 
> Fan reaction and demands brought back Supersons and these backups
> 
> In a recent interview posted on this site, the Batman Group Editor said fans have been asking "where's Damian?"
> ...


It’s pretty much confirmed this is just a prequel to his own series. Damian is fine. He has led books that kept up with dick Grayson DC is aware of him.

----------


## brandnewfan

> You are not wrong. That's a majority of DC's readers right there but that doesn't = solo title.
> 
> Lets be real, Whether Damian gets a solo depend on fans response. showing DC there's a demand for it by voting with with Wallets [critical response is good but not really a decider]
> 
> DC's cutting cost's. Look at the recent solicits, only the trinity, teams /anthologies and Nightwing. Titles that pretty much are guaranteed to sell only. Honestly I feel that the likelihood of Damian getting a solo depends on sales of these backups,  the sales of the Supersons Digital series or even better Damian Figures and such.
> 
> Fan reaction and demands brought back Supersons and these backups
> 
> In a recent interview posted on this site, the Batman Group Editor said fans have been asking "where's Damian?"
> ...



I appreciate DC’s predicament for needing proven sources of income.

But I’m not giving them my $10 bucks for some backup stories in the hopes that they give Damian a solo title again that MIGHT last 10-15 issues.  The structure of comics these days is pretty sorry, with non A-listers barely getting room to breathe. A book that lasts less than 20 issues is a limited series no matter how it’s marketed, and I’m not really interested in that.

If the current form of releasing comics holds then I’d rather see the industry die off than continue on.

----------


## Rac7d*

> I appreciate DC’s predicament for needing proven sources of income.
> 
> But I’m not giving them my $10 bucks for some backup stories in the hopes that they give Damian a solo title again that MIGHT last 10-15 issues.  The structure of comics these days is pretty sorry, with non A-listers barely getting room to breathe. A book that lasts less than 20 issues is a limited series no matter how it’s marketed, and I’m not really interested in that.
> 
> If the current form of releasing comics holds then I’d rather see the industry die off than continue on.


Once again those are two of DC most profitable and popular books. They are gonna have eyes on them.

----------


## Hypo

https://twitter.com/3Mega/status/1341032475695271936

----------


## Restingvoice

> https://twitter.com/3Mega/status/1341032475695271936


ASIAN SQUAT LOL it's because Americans don't have squatting toilet XD

The fanarts of his new garb have been really good

EppuRkMXIAgmPSA.jpg

https://mobile.twitter.com/DuhDude10...05277662191616

----------


## Eckri

So Challenge of the Supersons#2 just released. 
Thoughts? 
I'd say it was a fun issue, not too good nor bad, just fun.

----------


## Jackalope89

So, fan-fic time; Trinity on AO3 features Damian, Jon, and Lyta Trevor while all the same age in Junior High. Each one has had their own arcs, and their own development. Even with shoutouts to canon. And honestly, Jon being the same age as Damian is probably the only thing I wished had happened from the onset of his character. Be it they both being 10, or both being 13, it should have happened (well, with a few months difference, obviously). And Lyta feels about how you would imagine the daughter of Diana and Steve to be, though a little more obstinate than Diana due to her outside influence, but still understanding and able to brush through gruff fronts like her mother. 13 chapters out right now. Not the quickest releases, but they still come out, with good length chapters.

https://archiveofourown.org/works/23...pters/55987546

----------


## Jackalope89

Also, after reading the latest Super Sons issue;

*spoilers:*
Looks like the boys are out to rescue the Justice League, and can't afford to let the Leaguers know about it.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Blue22

Tec came out today and...Honestly, it wasn't perfect but it went better than I was expecting.

*spoilers:*

Damain's not necessarily "back", which makes his appearance in Nightwing _kinda_ confusing, but he and Bruce are at least on good-ish terms again. And Bruce finally said what he should have said way back during Alfred's memorial. That said, there's a lot they should still probably talk about. A lot that probably won't ever be touched on. This wasn't the conclusion I was hoping for, and I kinda wish it hadn't been juxtaposed with all the Mirror dude and election stuff. But I'm satisfied.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Fergus

> ASIAN SQUAT LOL it's because Americans don't have squatting toilet XD
> 
> The fanarts of his new garb have been really good
> 
> EppuRkMXIAgmPSA.jpg
> 
> https://mobile.twitter.com/DuhDude10...05277662191616


Mmh I wonder is this new look an attempt to target the YA market? My daughter has been raving about this new Damian since I showed her his new look. 

Aesthetics is a huge part of the appeal for that demographic and this new look is very stylised.

DC should consider it. Damian and Romance has proven very popular [still can't believe that Damian and Raven beat out Clark and lois to be the most popular ship in the DCAMU]

----------


## Fergus

> https://twitter.com/3Mega/status/1341032475695271936


This is cute

----------


## DragonPiece

So after reading the last issue of Tec, I have a feeling the quest Damian will be on is trying to ressurect Alfred. Clearly he feels pretty upset about that still and obviously a big part of Rha's Al Ghoul storylines deal with ressurection, so it just seems likely to me.

----------


## Frontier

> So after reading the last issue of Tec, I have a feeling the quest Damian will be on is trying to ressurect Alfred. Clearly he feels pretty upset about that still and obviously a big part of Rha's Al Ghoul storylines deal with ressurection, so it just seems likely to me.


*spoilers:*
It would explain him meeting with Talia in the backups.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Rac7d*

> Mmh I wonder is this new look an attempt to target the YA market? My daughter has been raving about this new Damian since I showed her his new look. 
> 
> Aesthetics is a huge part of the appeal for that demographic and this new look is very stylised.
> 
> DC should consider it. Damian and Romance has proven very popular [still can't believe that Damian and Raven beat out Clark and lois to be the most popular ship in the DCAMU]


It’s those gloves, I want them to be magic so bad. Yes DamiRae worked very well. I also though Damian and Maps were cute too, he’s probably one of the few heroes they could do a successfully YA novel for original.jpg

----------


## CPSparkles

> So after reading the last issue of Tec, I have a feeling the quest Damian will be on is trying to ressurect Alfred. Clearly he feels pretty upset about that still and obviously a big part of Rha's Al Ghoul storylines deal with ressurection, so it just seems likely to me.


It feels kind of fitting that Damian should be the one to bring him back.

----------


## DragonPiece

> *spoilers:*
> It would explain him meeting with Talia in the backups.
> *end of spoilers*


Yep, I just don't see him going back to Talia to be evil or anything like that. But trying to make right a thing he feels responsible for like ressurecting Alfred, seems like the most likely route for his character right now.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Tec came out today and...Honestly, it wasn't perfect but it went better than I was expecting.
> 
> *spoilers:*
> 
> Damain's not necessarily "back", which makes his appearance in Nightwing _kinda_ confusing, but he and Bruce are at least on good-ish terms again. And Bruce finally said what he should have said way back during Alfred's memorial. That said, there's a lot they should still probably talk about. A lot that probably won't ever be touched on. This wasn't the conclusion I was hoping for, and I kinda wish it hadn't been juxtaposed with all the Mirror dude and election stuff. But I'm satisfied.
> *end of spoilers*


At the very least we got something. I was expecting them to just brush it under the rug and pretend like it never happened.

----------


## Blue22

> At the very least we got something. I was expecting them to just brush it under the rug and pretend like it never happened.


Thing is, a lot of it still was. Just like when Damian first quit being Robin, they made it all about Alfred while not really touching on the reasons Damian went rogue in the first place. it was never about Alfred. It was never about being in Bruce's shadow. But that's sorta what it's become while all the bad things Damian did in Glass' Titans have been kinda swept away. Hell, he seems to have already given up on wanting criminals to die. You'd think he'd be out for Hush's blood after what he did to his family. But nah. He was perfectly content with Bruce just beating the shit out of him like always.

Not that I want him to start killing again but like...Come on. It's kinda bad storytelling to have him go back down that road and then not follow up on it. Even if I don't like a particular period in a character's history, I never want it swept under the rug. I want it to be acknowledged and dealt with. Let it serve as a reminder for that character. A lesson going forward. I don't wanna seem too critical because I did *really* enjoy this issue. I definitely don't dislike that Damian and Bruce seem to be back in a semi-good place. In fact I really love that. I just...think it came a little too easy after everything that happened.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> Yep, I just don't see him going back to Talia to be evil or anything like that. But trying to make right a thing he feels responsible for like ressurecting Alfred, seems like the most likely route for his character right now.


I completely agree, I definitely think that he might try to ressurect Alfred. 

Also, you know, the solicitations mention the League of Lazarus, which Williamson already brought up before in his Batman/Superman. And, of course, knowing that Williamson will write Damian's next story...

----------


## AmiMizuno

I think they will explore what happened to him. I kind of wish it was Damian not Babs who was partnering with Dick

----------


## Rac7d*

> I think they will explore what happened to him. I kind of wish it was Damian not Babs who was partnering with Dick


On of the highlights of rebirth was their team up arc

----------


## Blue22

Yeeeep. Even with Damian going down his own path, I would still absolutely love to see some kind of series (even if it's a mini) of those two working together again. It still kinda makes me mad that they haven't really had any real interactions with each other since the whole Ric thing ended. Bruce and Damian will always be rocky. But Dick Damian? Brothers for life.

----------


## Morgoth

> So after reading the last issue of Tec, I have a feeling the quest Damian will be on is trying to ressurect Alfred. Clearly he feels pretty upset about that still and obviously a big part of Rha's Al Ghoul storylines deal with ressurection, so it just seems likely to me.


Just like it was in Injustice.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Thing is, a lot of it still was. Just like when Damian first quit being Robin, they made it all about Alfred while not really touching on the reasons Damian went rogue in the first place. it was never about Alfred. It was never about being in Bruce's shadow. But that's sorta what it's become while all the bad things Damian did in Glass' Titans have been kinda swept away. Hell, he seems to have already given up on wanting criminals to die. You'd think he'd be out for Hush's blood after what he did to his family. But nah. He was perfectly content with Bruce just beating the shit out of him like always.
> 
> Not that I want him to start killing again but like...Come on. It's kinda bad storytelling to have him go back down that road and then not follow up on it. Even if I don't like a particular period in a character's history, I never want it swept under the rug. I want it to be acknowledged and dealt with. Let it serve as a reminder for that character. A lesson going forward. I don't wanna seem too critical because I did *really* enjoy this issue. I definitely don't dislike that Damian and Bruce seem to be back in a semi-good place. In fact I really love that. I just...think it came a little too easy after everything that happened.


Indeed it feel rushed but to be fair every comics that were released right before future state are all felt rushed (I remember feeling 'eehhh' after reading Batman #105), with the exception of Nightwing, maybe. I think they just want to wrap it up quickly before future state and separate them on somewhat okay atmosphere. Which is weird because back-up solicits says that Damian is on the run out of Gotham, but well, it's not the first time solicits can be wrong, like Damian didn't even want to kill Hush, just want to turn him into beautiful porcupine. Moreover, the writer is Tomasi, a.k.a perhaps the only person on DC who doesn't like the idea of Damian and Bruce get separated. Tomasi is like someone who has to make mint choco ice cream but he doesn't like mint so he made chocolate ice cream instead. It's not the first time he ignored Teen Titans storyline, like on his Tec he made Damian worked and joked on Bruce's side even though after No Justice they should have been estranged. 

We're still don't know the exact relationship between Damian and Bruce after Future State, but I don't think the separation on latest Tec means Damian cut his ties with Bruce, he just quits Robin and refused to take it back, like Dick's case. It's not like he turned into Batman's villain, like Jason's case in the past. So event on Nightwing is still possible to happen. But indeed I want them to discuss and dealt with all events on Teen Titans. And there's many things from Teen Titans storyline which was still unsolved, like Jason's mysterious box, Book of Damned, Heretic alive again, and seriously, did he really kill Brother Blood or not? Tomasi chose to ignore all that happened on Teen Titans and frankly I can't blame him for that, but I hope the next writer will discuss about those things. I like Williamson's take of Damian on Gotham Resistance so I have big hopes on him. He can even makes me like Damian's interaction with Harley, something that I don't think it's possible before.

Btw, is Black Casebook still on Damian's possession now? On 1032 looks like Batman already took it back but on latest issue it implied that Damian still holds it.

----------


## Rac7d*

Damian got to stop abandoning his pets 
That Tex ending had me rolling

----------


## Badou

> I think they will explore what happened to him. I kind of wish it was Damian not Babs who was partnering with Dick


When was the last time Dick and Damian even had a proper conversation or team up? It had to have been before all the Ric stuff, right? I can't even remember it. They really botched the whole thing with Dick's return. Absolutely no impact or showing him doing anything people actually would be interested in seeing after him being stuck as Ric for 2 years.

The Grayson series did their big reunion so much better.

----------


## Fergus

> When was the last time Dick and Damian even had a proper conversation or team up? It had to have been before all the Ric stuff, right? I can't even remember it. They really botched the whole thing with Dick's return. Absolutely no impact or showing him doing anything people actually would be interested in seeing after him being stuck as Ric for 2 years.
> 
> The Grayson series did their big reunion so much better.


This panel always makes me smile.

----------


## Restingvoice

> When was the last time Dick and Damian even had a proper conversation or team up? It had to have been before all the Ric stuff, right? I can't even remember it. They really botched the whole thing with Dick's return. Absolutely no impact or showing him doing anything people actually would be interested in seeing after him being stuck as Ric for 2 years.
> 
> The Grayson series did their big reunion so much better.


The last team-up was in Dark Knights Metal. After that it's No Justice where the plot of Damian thinking Bruce's method is ineffective started.

----------


## AmiMizuno

I kind of really want a mini series with the two. I mean Dick is one of the reason Damian is better. That’s why he kind of went off the deep end when he got shot. I mean when it comes to father figures Damian I feels looks up to Dick more not Bruce. Makes me feel maybe they could have shown if Damian is hanging out with Dick. So there are two theories. That Damian is red x Or he is Nightwing in FS.  I mean while Red X makes sense. The issue is don’t they call him a new face?

----------


## Morgoth

Damian definitely will appear in Taylor's Nightwing, I think, considering that Taylor is his fan. He will not miss the opportunity to use him in one of the issues.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Damian definitely will appear in Taylor's Nightwing, I think, considering that Taylor is his fan. He will not miss the opportunity to use him in one of the issues.


Agreed. Taylor has a knack for writing emotional beats. I'd be happy if he's the one who writes their reunion. 

While I think the title should limit thing's that take the focus away from Dick. I wouldnt mind an issue with the two

----------


## Astralabius

> I kind of really want a mini series with the two. I mean Dick is one of the reason Damian is better. That’s why he kind of went off the deep end when he got shot. I mean when it comes to father figures Damian I feels looks up to Dick more not Bruce. Makes me feel maybe they could have shown if Damian is hanging out with Dick. So there are two theories. That Damian is red x Or he is Nightwing in FS.  I mean while Red X makes sense. The issue is don’t they call him a new face?


I'm still annoyed when I think back to Teen Titans and remember that instead of making Dick getting shot a motivation for Damian right from the start they waited like two years and tacked it on way too late really awkwardly.

I don't think Damian is Red X. The only thing we know for sure about the guy is that he's a former student of Titans Academy in Future State/that he will be one of the students in the Titans Academy book.
Since Damian is on the cover of Infinte Frontier as a seperate character from Red X who is also on it, Damian is not tall enough to be Red X who I'm pretty sure is older than him, and we already know Damian will go back to his mother and deal with league of assassins stuff when that Titans Academy book is starting I really don't think Red X is Damian.
I'm also pretty sure that the Nightwing with a Deathstroke Mask is just Dick.

----------


## Morgoth

Isn't that already obvious, that Damian is not Red-X? He's already getting new suit and, probably, identity, and Abernathy with Williamson already mentioned, that Damian is important part of current Batman line-up. They already did everything to cut any Damian's ties with Titans. 
Red-X is probably someone new, or it's Clownhunter, since there's no sign of him in solicits.

----------


## Astralabius

> Isn't that already obvious, that Damian is not Red-X? He's already getting new suit and, probably, identity, and Abernathy with Williamson already mentioned, that Damian is important part of current Batman line-up. They already did everything to cut any Damian's ties with Titans. 
> Red-X is probably someone new, or it's Clownhunter, since there's no sign of him in solicits.


It's pretty obvious that it's not him, but the theory kinda refuses to die. Probably because it's weird to some people that Damian isn't mentioned in the Future State solicitations, covers or promos.
I wouldn't be suprises if Future State is simply another future where Damian is dead. Or maybe he's still with Talia. Talia will show up in the Catwoman book, maybe she will tell us what happened with her son in that future.

----------


## AmiMizuno

I know he isn’t red x but a common one is more he will be Dick Grayson. I don’t think he will be Nightwing. That’s just Dick Grayson. I can’t see Dc killing Dc off.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

Damian is kind of mentioned in Future State: Robin Eternal's preview, so a least he's not erased from continuity or something. :P Here's the link: https://aiptcomics.com/2020/12/25/dc...bin-eternal-1/ 

I'm dying to know what happened to him, though!

----------


## Rac7d*

> Damian definitely will appear in Taylor's Nightwing, I think, considering that Taylor is his fan. He will not miss the opportunity to use him in one of the issues.


I asked and he like the post so hopefully

----------


## redmax99

is Damián nightwing in future state if dick in arkham?

----------


## Drako

> is Damián nightwing in future state if dick in arkham?


No. Dick made Arkham his Headquarters.

----------


## Eckri

> Damian is kind of mentioned in Future State: Robin Eternal's preview, so a least he's not erased from continuity or something. :P Here's the link: https://aiptcomics.com/2020/12/25/dc...bin-eternal-1/ 
> 
> I'm dying to know what happened to him, though!


My guesses are:
Missing
Imprisoned
Doing some covert shtick 
Part of the League of Assassins, ala Batman Beyond.
or Dead.

----------


## Astralabius

> No. Dick made Arkham his Headquarters.


Plus Teen Titans takes place in 2027 according to a timeline DC published.

All the Batman related books except for Dark Detective take place in 2025.

----------


## Astralabius

Dark Detective also takes place in 2027. After reading the solicitations for February I wonder if Bruce's book will once again be the only one that really matters if you want to see the magistrate being taken down.
If all the batbooks except this one take place in 2025 and the magistrate is still standing two years later then it sounds like all the other characters might end up being kinda useless once again.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> My guesses are:
> Missing
> Imprisoned
> Doing some covert shtick 
> Part of the League of Assassins, ala Batman Beyond.
> or Dead.


I'm starting to think the same. Maybe it's to early to tell, but it surely seems like he's not part of the Magistrate, which is a surprise for me. On the other hand, it seems something bad happened.





> Dark Detective also takes place in 2027. After reading the solicitations for February I wonder if Bruce's book will once again be the only one that really matters if you want to see the magistrate being taken down.
> If all the batbooks except this one take place in 2025 and the magistrate is still standing two years later then it sounds like all the other characters might end up being kinda useless once again.


I thought the same thing, actually. If everyone is trying to resist the Magistrate in 2025 and they are still active in 2027, I guess it didn't work very well. And the lack of most batfam characters further in the future makes me wonder if something big will happen in 2025 in Gotham.

----------


## Fergus

Happy Holidays everyone

----------


## the1&onlyE.

Happy holidays! With Gleb Melnikov's Damian!

----------


## Fergus

> Happy holidays! With Gleb Melnikov's Damian!


This is too good. I like the look on Damian's face. Great touch with the comic inside the book

----------


## adrikito

I was thinking in Damian and the Lazarus... Group???

When I listen LAZARUS I only think in resurrection.. It will happen a similar think that in Injustice II and Damian will be related with Alfred resurrection again?




> No. Dick made Arkham his Headquarters.


WTF... Is this a troll comment? 

I heard that Amanda Waller wants something from Arkham..

About Nightwing something about Steph and Cass helping him.

----------


## Drako

> WTF... Is this a troll comment? 
> 
> I heard that Amanda Waller wants something from Arkham..
> 
> About Nightwing something about Steph and Cass helping him.


It's true and will happen in the Future State storyline.

FUTURE STATE: NIGHTWING #1

written by ANDREW CONSTANT
art by NICOLA SCOTT
cover by YASMINE PUTRI
card stock variant cover by NICOLA SCOTT

Batman is gone! Now, Nightwing has taken on the mission of keeping the citizens of Gotham City safe from the Magistrate. But to do that, he'll have stay one step ahead of the Magistrate! And you know things have gotten bad in Gotham when the safest place for *Dick to hide out is the abandoned Arkham Asylum*! When Nightwing gets a visit from a mask claiming to be the new Batmandoes he fight like one? Pick up this dark peek into the future by writer Andrew Constant and artist Nicola Scott to find out!

----------


## adrikito

OH... OK.. Wow..

Poor Dick.. He is THE BEST OPTION as batman but DC continues replacing him for less talented persons...


I would had prefered Luke Fox that at least I know him thanks to Batwing(and has some experience) than his... Brother?  :Confused:

----------


## Eckri

So Challenge of the Supersons #3 is out. 
Fun issue, your guys' thoughts?

----------


## Light of Justice

> So Challenge of the Supersons #3 is out. 
> Fun issue, your guys' thoughts?


Yeah, fun issue, so far there's no major thing happened. Maybe the main plot will be explained on next issue. I certainly don't remember any introduction or explanation about Rora and the scroll before they went into action.
*spoilers:*
when it revealed that Damian has contingency plan for his Teen Titans, I wonder if he has one for Jon. As expected, looks like he has it. And probably just me, but I never see any problem with Batman (or Batfam member) having contingency plan. They're paranoid powerless people surrounded by meta people who can kill them untouched. Personally, I will also make some plan to counter those powered people, as reassurance, in case something went wrong and they attacked me. 
But indeed on Damian's Teen Titans case, he needs to change his plan to be less...lethal. Fortunately those poisons were useful at last.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Jackalope89

> Yeah, fun issue, so far there's no major thing happened. Maybe the main plot will be explained on next issue. I certainly don't remember any introduction or explanation about Rora and the scroll before they went into action.
> *spoilers:*
> when it revealed that Damian has contingency plan for his Teen Titans, I wonder if he has one for Jon. As expected, looks like he has it. And probably just me, but I never see any problem with Batman (or Batfam member) having contingency plan. They're paranoid powerless people surrounded by meta people who can kill them untouched. Personally, I will also make some plan to counter those powered people, as reassurance, in case something went wrong and they attacked me. 
> But indeed on Damian's Teen Titans case, he needs to change his plan to be less...lethal. Fortunately those poisons were useful at last.
> *end of spoilers*


Looks like the Rora thing will be next issue. But so far, it is a pretty fun run. I need more fun in comics, not dark and angsty. Anyway;

*spoilers:*
The issue isn't so much having contingency plans, as all things considered, it makes plenty of sense why Bruce would have them. The problem was that Bruce never told them he had the contingency plans in the first place. He didn't need to say what they were, just that he had them in case they were mind-controlled or evil doppelganger, that sort of thing happened. Instead, his silence nearly got the League, some of which he called "friend", killed.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Astralabius

> So Challenge of the Supersons #3 is out. 
> Fun issue, your guys' thoughts?


I really like it so far, even though I think that it being set in the past is very limiting. I miss the times when they got to interact with the dc universe.
Adventures of the Super Sons was off planet and in this story nobody is allowed to know they are saving them.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I just read the last tec, don't like how Damian-Bruce conflict was "resolved" and still don't agree with Damian going way and let his pets behind :/

----------


## Rebeca Armus

About Super Sons 3, the stories are not so well written, but, yes, pretty fun ^^ I will follow it. 
I think I still prefer dialogues between DamiJon, but is the better of they both in at least 6 months...

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I really like it so far, even though I think that it being set in the past is very limiting. I miss the times when they got to interact with the dc universe.
> Adventures of the Super Sons was off planet and in this story nobody is allowed to know they are saving them.


I also like the #1 Super Sons more... but still happy this is being released.

----------

