# Comics  > Batman >  Jason Todd: Robin, Red Hood, Arkham Knight Appreciation 2020

## Sergard

"I'm my own man! Me, Jason Todd!"

(Batman #408)

_
Jason Peter Todd, born and risen in Lady City of Gotham's crudest part, came to become the second Robin, the Red Hood and the Wingman; the Arkham Knight of a different, grimmer universe; The Damned Prince of Gotham who suffered and died by the hand of the Clown Prince of Crime - but also the young man whose sheer will and bad luck couldn't let him rest and who made his way back from the grave.

Vigilante, avenger: he fights for fairness, for setting the wrong right and for defending and protecting those who cannot fend themselves, and he will do so crossing lines into dark areas or delivering a brutal brand of justice. A daring and sassy adventurer who has traveled not only this world and the space, but other universes. A flawed man who fights not only the monsters out but also inside, who fears the ghosts of memories and suffers from them and despite that will fight back with determination. A man who can despise himself as much as he despises others; Who makes mistakes but also rights; Who can love as much as long for being loved, and hate as much as he loves. Who can lose himself in anger as well as in loneliness.

Jason Peter Todd is a complex character, product of a complex editorial history. This is his appreciation thread and this is how we come to appreciate and ramble about him._

(Thanks @Zaresh for writing the above introduction.)

"Even back then, Batman wasn't sure if I was going to be a hero ... or _something else_."
(Red Hood and the Outlaws Rebirth)
*Quick two-step introduction to Jason Todd/Red Hood*

*Step 1:* Watch _Batman: Under the Red Hood_
*Step 2*: Read the current Rebirth run of _Red Hood and the Outlaws_ (renamed _Red Hood: Outlaw_ with issue 27), trades:
Red Hood and the Outlaws Vol 1 - Dark TrinityRed Hood and the Outlaws Vol 2 - Who is Artemis?Red Hood and the Outlaws Vol 3 - Bizarro RebornRed Hood and the Outlaws Vol 4 - Good Night GothamRed Hood: Outlaw Vol 1 - Requiem for an ArcherRed Hood: Outlaw Vol 2 - Prince of GothamRed Hood: Outlaw Vol 3 - Generation Outlaw


*Families, Allies and Friends*

"Is it going to work out? Probably not. But I gave up on myself a few years ago. I'm not going to give up on them."
Jason Todd (Red Hood: Outlaw #41)


Todd family
*Willis Todd* - Jason's father. Presumed deceased; but actually alive.

"So this is *Gotham*. Your Home. You're gonna be everything I *never* was. A damned Prince of Gotham. I'm gonna keep you safe. Be a dad you can look up to."
Willis Todd (Red Hood and the Outlaws #23 [2016 - ])*Catherine Todd* - Jason's mother, presumed dead.*Faye Gunn/Ma Gunn* - Willis' mother and Jason's grandmother

"I deserve my fate. I'll be fine. I've grown accustomed to the dark."
Ma Gunn (Red Hood and the Outlaws #25 [2016 - ])*Faye Gunn* - Jason's cousin

"I'm just trying to understand what she sees in you. She seems to think you're special."
Faye Gunn to Jason Todd about Ma Gunn (Red Hood and the Outlaws #22 [2016 - ])

Outlaw family

Artemis of Bana-Mighdall/Artemis GraceBizarroPup PupDevourCloud NineDNADoomedMombie & Babe in ArmsVessel(?)Dog

_former Outlaws_
Koriand'r/StarfireRoy Harper/Arsenal

"Remember that voice you heard in your head? 'Don't do it, dummy!' That was me."
Roy Harper (Red Hood and the Outlaws Annual #2 [2016 - ])


Batfamily - in progress

"Someday I hope you'll come to look upon me as your *father*, and by then I hope I'll be able to speak to you with more patience and wisdom than I've demonstrated so far."
Bruce Wayne (Detective Comics #533)
*Allies and friends*

"One day your heart will shine brighter than the dark fury inside you. And that day will be *glorious*."
Ducra (Red Hood and the Outlaws #5 [2011-2015])

Ducra

"I suppose I should *congratulate* you. The first human in a thousand years to survive *the cleansing*. But I still can't tell if it's because you're worthy or just so damned stubborn."
Ducra (Red Hood and the Outlaws #5 [2011-2015])EssenceS'aruFamilia de Flores - Suzie Su and her sisters Blanc, Anastasia, Night and CandySimon Amal/CruxIsabel ArdilaGabby ChristensenMelissa MitchellTara BattleworthDr. VeritasBunker

*Enemies*

"Come on, Jason. With dad dead we only have each other. Let's not fight."
Joker's Daughter (Red Hood/Arsenal #11)
SolitaryUntitledThe 5 AcesHero Manifesto (Sera Fina, Palette, evil mimes) (former member: Suzie Su)Black MaskUnderbellyUnderlifeEuro-BlocPenguinMonster Arm (and friends)JokerJoker's DaughterRa's Al Ghul

*Upcoming Appearances* (outside of _Red Hood and the Outlaws_)

Jason Todd in the Gotham Knights gameJason Todd in the Death in the Family interactive shortJason Todd in the Young Justice-cartoonJason Todd in Gordon Murphy's White Knight Vol. 3possible confrontation with Leviathan by Brian BendisCurran Walters as Red Hood in Titans season 3Red Hood TV series (rumor)

*Old Threads*
Jason Todd: Robin, Red Hood, Arkham Knight, Prince of Gotham Appreciation 2019 
Jason Todd: Robin, Arkham Knight, Red Hood Appreciation 2018 (actually 2014-2018)

*Other Stuff*
Interviews
The Jason Todd Reread (pre- and post-crisis)
Sales Statistics

*DC Forum Appreciation Thread rules:*

1) No negative comments about the honoree(s) of this thread. It's an appreciation thread, not a non-appreciation one.

2) No negative discussion about any competitors of the honoree(s) of this thread. No ifs, ands, or buts. Find another non-appreciation thread to do that, just not here.

3) No negative comments about other versions of the character. For example, if you like the DCU version of Cyborg, but hate the DCnU version (or visa versa), just appreciate the earlier version and keep your comments about the latter to yourself.

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## Sergard

_++++++post under construction++++++_

Fanfic recommendations

List of recommended fanfic authors

List of recommended fanfics (info)

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## Zaresh

Expectations? Or wishes.

A reunion of old and new teams.
The followup of old plots that didn't find an end, and their ending
New villains, new mysteries, new adventures.
Maybe someone could bring Roy back somehow? I feel his fans will be happy about that, not only us.
Reach the end of the year without our book cancelled.
The 3 Jokers story released, and with some luck, a good story that I will enjoy.
Maybe they could use Jason in an animated movie or series again? That could be cool.

Happy New Year!! For everyone!!
I wonder if @G-Pots is alright. It's been a while.

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## Jackalope89

> Expectations? Or wishes.
> 
> A reunion of old and new teams.
> The followup of old plots that didn't find an end, and their ending
> New villains, new mysteries, new adventures.
> Maybe someone could bring Roy back somehow? I feel his fans will be happy about that, not only us.
> Reach the end of the year without our book cancelled.
> The 3 Jokers story released, and with some luck, a good story that I will enjoy.
> Maybe they could use Jason in an animated movie or series again? That could be cool.
> ...


Basically all of this, plus it being continued after #50. But without Morrison writing it. Or Bendis.

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## kaimaciel

> Expectations? Or wishes.
> 
> A reunion of old and new teams.
> The followup of old plots that didn't find an end, and their ending
> New villains, new mysteries, new adventures.
> Maybe someone could bring Roy back somehow? I feel his fans will be happy about that, not only us.
> Reach the end of the year without our book cancelled.
> The 3 Jokers story released, and with some luck, a good story that I will enjoy.
> Maybe they could use Jason in an animated movie or series again? That could be cool.
> ...


This! Also add Red Hood to another game (Arkham Legacy? Injustice 3?), that would be cool.

Happy New Year!

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## Restingvoice

The Dark Trinity is good branding. May it last a long time.
New villain, since their power level is about equal to the main Trinity I want them to face the type of foe that usually appear in the Trinity book, like Mongul, but an original character.

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## Sergard

Fade

_Happy New Year 2020_



@jasontidds

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## Sergard

@bibyami

_happy new year 2020!!!_




CatKir

_#Batfamily Happy New Year! Get cozy with batfam kitties (sushi)_




Kira

_a tiny fast doodle of BATS IN THE RING Jason in his practice gear being totally unhelpful at rehearsal. okay that's it from me for this decade, HAPPY NEW YEAR_

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## Sergard

Akio

_First artwork of 2020. Jason Todd_




Kicks (follow link for Tim & Damian version)

_Last art post for 2019! 

Fixed up my previous drawing since I felt it was a little sloppy and made the next piece as well!

Hope everyone has a good New Year's Eve!_




dreamer._.247

_Bat Boys Winter Edition 2/4
HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!
.
Thank you everyone for your support! I never thought that my art acc will grow this much. You guys have no idea how happy I am when I read your comments! It's been a rough year and it's over now. I wish to do more things in 2020 and cross out some of my bucket list. I found lots of new great friends and I'm happy to know you guys. I wish to grow in this acc and improve my art skills even more.
Anyway thank you so much! Here's to another year for more art content_

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## Sergard

fishtre

_Something I intended to draw for X-mas lol. If I keep this pace, I should be able to wish you guys a happy new year by the end of January. See you then._

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## Sergard

fishtre



fishtre

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## Frontier

Happy New Year to my favorite Outlaw  :Cool: .

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## Jackalope89

The latest issue was a blast! Especially with how Jason freed Artemis from mental control, lol.

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## Zaresh

> The latest issue was a blast! Especially with how Jason freed Artemis from mental control, lol.


It was played for laughs, I think; which I guess, between that and the fact that it was a reversal of the first kiss (Artemis stealing Jason a kiss), makes this second one funnier. 

Spoilers for off-topic (sort of: Marvel barely related stuff)
*spoilers:*
Reminds me of that time when Hawkeye kissed fake-Wanda (Loki) to find of if it was her or not (when he hadn't kissed Scarlet Witch before, to begin with, or not that I knew): it was hilarious (for me, at least). Edit: damn, I can't remember where I read that. Maybe Avengers Academy? I remember Pym saving the day.
*end of spoilers*

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## Restingvoice

Who was Jason's first villain as Robin?
Pre-Crisis
Post-Crisis
New 52
Rebirth

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## Zaresh

> Who was Jason's first villain as Robin?
> Pre-Crisis
> Post-Crisis
> New 52
> Rebirth


Pre-Crisis: Killer Croc. Edit: Well, he wasn't Robin yet, but...
Post-Crisis: Joker, iirc, and I think I do.
New 52: not taking into account lesser baddies, it was the Untitled in that town. Edit: wait, as Robin? No idea.
Rebirth: Black Mask. Edit: ah, crap, again, as Robin, no idea.

Edit: I need to stop and read better next time.

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## AJpyro

Welcome to the New Year Outlaws.

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## Zaresh

> Welcome to the New Year Outlaws.


Welcome to you too!
And this year can be a good one. Besides our book we will have the 3 Jokers, the Unkillables and that animated short of Dead in the Family, right? That we know about. Maybe we will have a few more appearances with a main role we don't know about yet. But so far, a promising year.

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## Jackalope89

> Welcome to you too!
> And this year can be a good one. Besides our book we will have the 3 Jokers, the Unkillables and that animated short of Dead in the Family, right? That we know about. Maybe we will have a few more appearances with a main role we don't know about yet. But so far, a promising year.


I'm hoping for Young Justice Season 4 as well. And hopefully Titans/Red Hood series as well.

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## Restingvoice

> Pre-Crisis: Killer Croc. Edit: Well, he wasn't Robin yet, but...
> Post-Crisis: Joker, iirc, and I think I do.
> New 52: not taking into account lesser baddies, it was the Untitled in that town. Edit: wait, as Robin? No idea.
> Rebirth: Black Mask. Edit: ah, crap, again, as Robin, no idea.
> 
> Edit: I need to stop and read better next time.


Nothing on his origin issues?

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## Zaresh

> Nothing on his origin issues?


Nothing specific that I can recall. Maybe in the New 52, but I don't remember it having anything for his debuting villain as Robin.

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## Arsenal

Jason’s time as Robin has only been seen through the occasional flashback or the odd vague reference. The big Robin 80th one shot may offer some insight though.

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## Sergard

> Expectations? Or wishes.


That's up to you.  :Wink: 
Personally, I have more wishes than expectations.




> A reunion of old and new teams.
> The followup of old plots that didn't find an end, and their ending
> New villains, new mysteries, new adventures.
> Maybe someone could bring Roy back somehow? I feel his fans will be happy about that, not only us.
> Reach the end of the year without our book cancelled.
> The 3 Jokers story released, and with some luck, a good story that I will enjoy.
> Maybe they could use Jason in an animated movie or series again? That could be cool.


Well, the first point can be ticked off.
Let's hope that the other points will be ticked off too during the year.
I want Eddie Bloomberg and some other victims of HiC back too, not just Roy.




> Happy New Year!! For everyone!!
> I wonder if @G-Pots is alright. It's been a while.


I didn't notice that G-Potion has been gone for so long. I hope everything is alright.





> Basically all of this, plus it being continued after #50. But without Morrison writing it. Or Bendis.


Agreed. Also not Tom King.




> The Dark Trinity is good branding. May it last a long time.
> New villain, since their power level is about equal to the main Trinity I want them to face the type of foe that usually appear in the Trinity book, like Mongul, but an original character.


True, maybe the return of the Untitled will be a first step in the right direction.
Since you mention Mongul, it would be nice when his son Jochi could be added to the Outlaw cast - at least as an ally. I liked how he and Jason fought together in the Batman/Superman Annual.




> Happy New Year to my favorite Outlaw .


Happy New Year to you too.  :Big Grin:

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## Sergard

> Kira
> 
> _a tiny fast doodle of BATS IN THE RING Jason in his practice gear being totally unhelpful at rehearsal. okay that's it from me for this decade, HAPPY NEW YEAR_


Nachte

_Saw Kira's practice outfit Jason for their Bats in the Ring AU and I basically HAD to draw it immediately._

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## Zaresh

So, *@Restingvoice,* I decided to go and look at Jason's first issue as Robin pre-COIE. 

Heh, old comics sure make for a long read. Took me a lot of time to finish one issue alone; now I remember why I kept pushing the reading of these comics for when I'm free.

It turned out to be a very nice story about Jason struggling with Dick's legacy and the fact that everything that he did, it was going to be credited on Dick's Robin, or in Robin alone, and not Jason's own hero persona (whatever he was going to go by before Dick offered his codename and suit). It makes sense, for a natural performer (a circus boy), to struggle with that kind of issues; and for a teenage who is dealing with his identity and own place; and for a teenage that realize about the implications of the duality of a vigilante and the weight of responsibility. Cool stuff, imho. In case you guys want to read it, the story is covered by two issues: Batman #368 and Detective #535

Well, my point was. *@Restingvoice*, the debuting rogue for pre-Crisis Robin Jason was Crazy Quilt.

Edit: yeah, I found myself thinking my first wish went fine extraordinary soon.

Honestly, I would like the whole mess that was HiC to be erased and begone forever. I'm a bit of a Wally fan, after all. But I don't think I'm going to be that much lucky. Sigh, the whole idea, as a concept, was cool; but it turned in a big disappointment, and hurt too many characters.

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## Sergard

This reminds me that we stopped at Batman #367 in the Jason Todd Reread thread.
I'm surprised how many villains pre-crisis Jason had already met before he officially became Robin.

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## Zaresh

> This reminds me that we stopped at Batman #367 in the Jason Todd Reread thread.
> I'm surprised how many villains pre-crisis Jason had already met before he officially became Robin.


It may help that Jason was playing a noticeable role in those stories. It's 52 issues per year, right? A lot of time for what was a very short tenure. And then there was that annual at the end of the Killer Croc story that used a lot of the rogue gallery.

Edit: not 52 weeks, no. 26 weeks. Batman and Tec were published every each two weeks one behind the other.

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## Celgress

2019 was a great year for Jason. Here is hoping for a great 2020 for Red Hood & his pals.  :Cool:

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## Ssstammerer

So I did a comparison last week (year?)

_At long last, 2019 is the year for all Jason Todd fans. We've been deprived for so long. For some reason, @dc_collectibles, @mattel, and @hiya_toys decided to release their respective Red Hood action figures in the same year!

Ranking:

1. DC Multiverse Red Hood by Mattel - Why? Because it captures Giuseppe Camuncoli's Rebirth design and Dexter Soy's helmet design. Sure, the guns are molded in his holsters (bummer) but the redeeming qualities of this figure, aside from being comic accurate are his alternate head (I had to get two for display!) and he is the most durable of the 3.

2. Injustice 2 Red Hood by Hiya Toys - The second best. Just look at it! For its size, the design is superb and game accurate. Loaded with accessories (puts the bigger figures to shame). This would've been my favorite but the figure isn't durable. The first time I played with it, his left hand broke and fell off, it made me contact Hiya Toys' customer support for a replacement. Plastic is brittle.

3. DC Essentials Red Hood by DC Collectibles - My least favorite is everyone's favorite. Too bulky for Rebirth Jason Todd, not based off of any artist's rendition of the character. I mean, where did that logo come from? Like Hiya Toys, the plastic is a bit brittle. Don't get me wrong, I still love this figure! Just not my favorite of the 3.

#JasonToddPH #RedHoodPH_

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## Aahz

> Post-Crisis: Joker, iirc, and I think I do.


Depends how you count it.
The villain of his origin story was Ma Gun and his first villain as Robin was Two-Face.

But in his first official post crisis appearances it  were Magpie (BATMAN #401) and Penguin (DETECTIVE COMICS #568). 

It seems that the one with Magpie was published first.

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## Zaresh

> Depends how you count it.
> The villain of his origin story was Ma Gun and his first villain as Robin was Two-Face.
> 
> But in his first official post crisis appearances it  were Magpie (BATMAN #401) and Penguin (DETECTIVE COMICS #568). 
> 
> It seems that the one with Magpie was published first.


Damn, I was sure I was remembering that one right. I failled miserably, asddf.

(I was actually remembering Two Face too. But it was the one in the movie, so I dissmised it as me messing memories, as usual. I stuck to Joker because i remember that too, but clearly, I was remembering wrong).

Edit: wait, was Two Face the one in the UtRH movie? Now I'm starting to doubt about that one too.

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## Dark_Tzitzimine

The one in the movie was Riddler.

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## Aahz

> The one in the movie was Riddler.


Did he ever had Riddler as villain in the comics during his time as Robin pre or post crisis?
I don't think he Riddler appeared there out side of the big villain team ups (or in the background in Arkham).

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## Sergard

I think I'll have to rewatch the UtRH movie. I neither can remember Two-Face nor Riddler.

Fun fact: Black Mask was introduced in the pre-crisis Robin Jason era.

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## Sergard

Essence by Paolo Pantalena

_Last Red Hood page of 2019
Have a great end of the year everybody._

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## RedBird

> I think I'll have to rewatch the UtRH movie. I neither can remember Two-Face nor Riddler.


In the Kid Robin flashback scene, Jason and Batman go after Riddler and his gang, catching them off guard and crashing through the window/roof of a warehouse.

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## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Essence by Paolo Pantalena
> 
> _Last Red Hood page of 2019
> Have a great end of the year everybody._


Oh, Essence is getting released from the Sword already? That was fast.

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## Arsenal

Really? I feel like it’s well within Lobdell’s normal issue range of resolving threads he introduced.

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## Sergard

> Oh, Essence is getting released from the Sword already? That was fast.


Fast indeed.
But I'm happy to see her released.
Essence is a cool character. And since the Untitled are returning, Essence is a valuable ally.

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## Zaresh

> The one in the movie was Riddler.


And this is why I don't trust myself.

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## RedBird

Huh. Yeah now that I think about it, that is kinda fast, considering Paolo Pantalena is only being credited for the very next issue, #42, but ChrisCross is credited as the artist for issues #43 and #44. Even the cover of issue #43 implies Essence is still trapped and only soon to be released from the sword. 
So, she is being released in the next issue? Unless this is a page for issue #45. Or perhaps this is merely a flashback in the next issue. Guess we'll find out soon.

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## Sergard

Does anybody know if ChrisCross has an Instagram or Twitter page?

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## Zaresh

> Does anybody know if ChrisCross has an Instagram or Twitter page?


There is this tumblr blog linked in his wikipedia entry.
https://chriscross7.tumblr.com/

That links to this instagram profile:
https://www.instagram.com/chriscrosserx/

But I don't know if these really are his.

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## Restingvoice

> Depends how you count it.
> The villain of his origin story was Ma Gun and his first villain as Robin was Two-Face.
> 
> But in his first official post crisis appearances it  were Magpie (BATMAN #401) and Penguin (DETECTIVE COMICS #568). 
> 
> It seems that the one with Magpie was published first.


Let's just list everything and their situation
Killer Croc was responsible for his Pre Crisis parents murder but at that time Jason was still a civilian
After he became Robin it was Crazy Quilt
The first Post Crisis villain was Ma Gunn but that's before he began training
In Nov 1986 Jason as Robin faced Magpie in Legends Chapter 1
New 52 Jason follows the Red Hood Gang remnants and fought their disguised Untitled leader after trained by Talia
The only villain of New 52 Jason I can think of after he became Robin but before his death was Killer Croc, set in Croc's origin story Villain Issue published at the time of Forever Evil

My preference is a villain that gives personal significance similar to Two-Face to Dick in Robin Year One

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## Sergard

> There is this tumblr blog linked in his wikipedia entry.
> https://chriscross7.tumblr.com/
> 
> That links to this instagram profile:
> https://www.instagram.com/chriscrosserx/
> 
> But I don't know if these really are his.


Thanks for the links. There's even an artwork with Bizarro and Artemis on Instagram. Are they aged-up or am I misinterpreting some lines?

ChrisCross

_Bizarro and Artemis having a Bad Day._

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## Zaresh

> Thanks for the links. There's even an artwork with Bizarro and Artemis on Instagram. Are they aged-up or am I misinterpreting some lines?
> 
> ChrisCross
> 
> _Bizarro and Artemis having a Bad Day._


Seems like they're covered in some sticky substance and aged, indeed (Artemis neck and mouth; Bizarro beard and eyes).

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## Sergard

DESA




Daniel Dahl




@overseer195 (Red Hood and Lady Shiva redesign for a fanfic)

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## Sergard

> So I did a comparison last week (year?)
> 
> _At long last, 2019 is the year for all Jason Todd fans. We've been deprived for so long. For some reason, @dc_collectibles, @mattel, and @hiya_toys decided to release their respective Red Hood action figures in the same year!_[...]


Nice ranking.
Are there any Jason Todd/Red Hood action figures or statues announced for 2020?
I can only remember that XM Studios is working on a Red Hood statue. But a release date hasn't been announced so far, so maybe we'll even have to wait until 2021.






> Seems like they're covered in some sticky substance and aged, indeed (Artemis neck and mouth; Bizarro beard and eyes).


Do Amazons even age? I thought they are immortal.

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## Zaresh

> Do Amazons even age? I thought they are immortal.


No idea. I don't think they do, at least not the amazons in Themyscira while they're there. I remember an old amazon in the rebirth Wonder Woman, but I think she was already old when they arrived there. I don't think they do, not at least like average humans do. And then Bana-Mighdall amazons can be their own thing with their own Egyptian goods. And this is probably some magical goo. So, well, if they don't, there's space for making Artemis do.

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## Restingvoice

> Nice ranking.
> Are there any Jason Todd/Red Hood action figures or statues announced for 2020?
> I can only remember that XM Studios is working on a Red Hood statue. But a release date hasn't been announced so far, so maybe we'll even have to wait until 2021.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do Amazons even age? I thought they are immortal.


The immortal ones are in Themyscira
In Post Crisis the amazons that separated from Themyscira age, and the present day amazons are their descendants
No idea about Rebirth
Oh but if we go by the new timeline that as of Doomsday Clock Diana was in JSA then yes they're immortal
The Themysciran ones

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## Sergard

Kem

_I couldnt rest until I had painted this scene_



Kem

_Edit of my Jason painting because I knew it reminded me of something_

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## Aahz

> Let's just list everything and their situation
> Killer Croc was responsible for his Pre Crisis parents murder but at that time Jason was still a civilian
> After he became Robin it was Crazy Quilt
> The first Post Crisis villain was Ma Gunn but that's before he began training
> In Nov 1986 Jason as Robin faced Magpie in Legends Chapter 1
> New 52 Jason follows the Red Hood Gang remnants and fought their disguised Untitled leader after trained by Talia
> The only villain of New 52 Jason I can think of after he became Robin but before his death was Killer Croc, set in Croc's origin story Villain Issue published at the time of Forever Evil
> 
> My preference is a villain that gives personal significance similar to Two-Face to Dick in Robin Year One


Post Crisis the first villain he fought after becoming Robin was Two-Face (Batman #410 and #411), and that had personal significance since Two-Face was responsible for the death of Jasons Father.

Pre Crisis the first villain he faced wearing a Robin costume was Joker in BATMAN #366, the fight against Crazy Quilt was after Dick had given him the mantle officially, but with him it is a little bit tricky because he was arround for quite while and became Batmans partner before he became Robin.

If you are looking for the first villain after his origin story, I guess the one you are looking for is Chimera.

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## Sergard

> No idea. I don't think they do, at least not the amazons in Themyscira while they're there. I remember an old amazon in the rebirth Wonder Woman, but I think she was already old when they arrived there. I don't think they do, not at least like average humans do. And then Bana-Mighdall amazons can be their own thing with their own Egyptian goods. And this is probably some magical goo. So, well, if they don't, there's space for making Artemis do.


Maybe we are lucky and will see some "grandpa Jason" too xD.

But I wonder who'll age everyone up. That's not something the Untitled or Essence are known for.

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## Zaresh

> Maybe we are lucky and will see some "grandpa Jason" too xD.
> 
> But I wonder who'll age everyone up. That's not something the Untitled or Essence are known for.


Yes, please. Ha ha! I love badass oldmen.
I have no idea what could be the cause for the goo and the ageing. It could be some mystical, magical place. Like a pit, or a cave, or a different plane. Or some spell. I don't think it's going to be something explained by "science", but... 

Edit: or it could be that we're reading the picture wrong.
We will see soon.

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## Sergard

> Yes, please. Ha ha! I love badass oldmen.
> I have no idea what could be the cause for the goo and the ageing. It could be some mystical, magical place. Like a pit, or a cave, or a different plane. Or some spell. I don't think it's going to be something explained by "science", but... 
> 
> Edit: or it could be that we're reading the picture wrong.
> We will see soon.


Old Man Jason in action xD
Maybe we'll even see the white streak again.

... or we are really reading the picture wrong. At first I thought that Artemis has very saggy boobs in a very ill-fitting costume.
And then I realized that the "saggy boobs" lines are part of the costume.

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## Restingvoice

> Post Crisis the first villain he fought after becoming Robin was Two-Face (Batman #410 and #411), and that had personal significance since Two-Face was responsible for the death of Jasons Father.
> 
> Pre Crisis the first villain he faced wearing a Robin costume was Joker in BATMAN #366, the fight against Crazy Quilt was after Dick had given him the mantle officially, but with him it is a little bit tricky because he was arround for quite while and became Batmans partner before he became Robin.
> 
> If you are looking for the first villain after his origin story, I guess the one you are looking for is Chimera.


If I'm not mistaken, Joker was terrorizing South America or something where Vicki was working and Batman follows. Then Jason found the Robin costume in Dick's closet or something, but I'm not sure if he followed as well, because my impression was the location was pretty far

I don't mind counting everything. Before Robin, while training, after becoming Robin if he went out unofficially, and after Robin officially. 

I know about Chimera but wasn't sure if Killer Croc came first.

I remember his relation with Two-Face but didn't remember which one came first. 

More importantly, since Magpie and Legends were before Jason's Post Crisis origin should it be counted as Pre Crisis or Post Crisis Jason?

----------


## Zaresh

> Old Man Jason in action xD
> Maybe we'll even see the white streak again.
> 
> ... or we are really reading the picture wrong. At first I thought that Artemis has very saggy boobs in a very ill-fitting costume.
> And then I realized that the "saggy boobs" lines are part of the costume.


I found myself experiencing something similar with her mouth and neck. I thought those were wrinkles, but then, it may be just the lines of the goo-liquid-whatever that substance is, that is sliding and running down from her jawline to her collarbone.

Mmm... I don't know :/

----------


## Jackalope89

Hard to say. The lines on Artemis' neck could very well be wrinkles, or simply artistic preference. And the goop certainly isn't helping matters. Until a colored page shows up, kind of hard to say for sure what it is.

But Old Grouch Jason would be hilarious!

----------


## Sergard

I'd like to exchange the RH:O #41 cover in the OP with a panel from #41.
But I wonder how long I have to wait to avoid spoilers for others.

----------


## Arsenal

The Dark Trinity reunion might be my favorite panel of 2019 tbh

----------


## Zaresh

> I'd like to exchange the RH:O #41 cover in the OP with a panel from #41.
> But I wonder how long I have to wait to avoid spoilers for others.


The last page, right?
You could wait until this Sunday or next Monday. I think most of the people would've read the issue by then, and if not, would've been spoilered by others / the internet.

----------


## Sergard

> The Dark Trinity reunion might be my favorite panel of 2019 tbh


Hmm, favorite panel ... tough choice for me.
Does issue 41 belong to 2019 or 2020?

----------


## Zaresh

> Hmm, favorite panel ... tough choice for me.
> Does issue 41 belong to 2019 or 2020?


Released the 1st of January. It would be 2020, right? But it seems to be mean to be the issue released for the December batch. So 2019 is it.

RHATO 42 is released the 22nd, by the way.

----------


## Sergard

> Released the 1st of January. It would be 2020, right? But it seems to be mean to be the issue released for the December batch. So 2019 is it.
> 
> *RHATO 42 is released the 22nd, by the way.*


Sooner than I have thought.  :Big Grin: 

Although I wished that DC would stop calling the kids the "next generation of super-villains" when they are clearly not evil. They all have a good heart.
#41 should be proof enough.




> RED HOOD OUTLAW #42
> (W) Scott Lobdell (A/CA) Paolo Pantalena 
> No one was harmed in the making of this issue! Red Hood is thrilled Artemis and Bizarro are back...but so much has changed for the Outlaws. For the moment they're mentors to the next generation of super-villains, and if you don't think the kids are going to challenge their new teacher, Bizarro...then you don't know Generation Outlaw! Plus, Jason and Artemis finally follow up on that kiss (you know the one!)...but their feelings surprise them both! In the meantime, an unspeakable darkness reveals itself...did the Outlaws finally come together just in time to watch helplessly as the world ends around them?



I think I never realized that the solicitation of #42 promises us some teacher Bizarro scenes. Bizarro and the kids sounds fun.

----------


## Sergard

dontots



M-Alejandrita (Is this a meme?)




M-Alejandrita

----------


## Sergard

Ren Wong



Ren Wong

_HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!!!! I know I've been gone for a while, things happening at the day job have been taking me away, and of course the holidays. Enjoy the first piece of 2020, and thanks so much for being so patient!!!! International Team Up!!! #internationalteamup #Gatchaman #joethecondor #Jasontodd #Redhood #DCcomics_

----------


## Sergard

chingsty

----------


## Sergard

Sam (@sferiolla)

_workspace sketch_

----------


## Sergard

Has anyone watched the first episode of the new fan series Gotham Knights yet?







(source)

----------


## Sergard

@huyandere




@huyandere

_happy new year everyone!_

----------


## Sergard

It's always nice to see some Batman Ninja Jason fanarts.  :Wink: 

zumaon

----------


## Sergard

Tannhauser




@jaayybirdd

----------


## Jackalope89

> Tannhauser
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @jaayybirdd


The first image is fine. The other 2, Jason's face looks like it got inflated.

----------


## Sergard

> The first image is fine. The other 2, Jason's face looks like it got inflated.


I like both artists.
In the first case it's interesting to compare the artwork with an older one. This is a fanart from August 2019. At least for me it feels like the artist improved their digital drawing skills drastically within 5 months.

Tannhauser




And here's a new fanart by JJMK.

----------


## Restingvoice

> And here's a new fanart by JJMK.


Hot Dam...ian

----------


## Sergard

Dexter Soy

_Top 9 2019.
#happynewyear_





source (art by winterRimyeah)

----------


## Sergard

Mara Mohnen

_Fan art of Jensen Ackles as DC's Jason Todd (Red Hood)_

[IMG]https://cdna.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/021/639/592/large/mara-mohnen-jason2-heller-klein.jpg?1572426572[/IMG]

[IMG]https://cdna.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/021/639/616/large/mara-mohnen-anmerkung-2019-10-30-100322.jpg?1572426628[/IMG]

Iri Noela

_The artwork I did for my second cover. This is my favorite character in the Bat family, the second Robin: Jason Todd._

[IMG]https://cdnb.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/023/035/027/large/iri-noela-cover-3.jpg?1577810907[/IMG]

----------


## Sergard

@moon115115

----------


## Sergard

Kira

_The once and future ring

(BATS IN THE RING pt. 10)

they're not fighting for the belt they're fighting for who gets to keep black and red as their color scheme, winner take all, loser gets sent back to the seamstress

(don't mind me, none of that is true)
(except in every way that it IS)_



@mori_YJ2

----------


## Sergard

Dustin Lee Massey

_I reworked Redhood/Arsenal #10 but I took some liberties and swapped out the HIVE thug and Jokers Daughter with Joker and Harley Quinn. I used Joaquin Phoenix,Margot Robbie, Colton Haynes and Curran Walters as references_

----------


## Sergard

Tyler Kirkham




rubberduckyguy

_A fun little drawing of the Red Hood I did. The perspective was a bit of a challenge plus it was my first time drawing guns. Hope you enjoy._



Lukrecia Babis

----------


## Sergard

liz



KyaKiniro

_From the batfamily bust series, I introduce you my version of RedHood (Jason Todd)._

----------


## Zaresh

So...

Do you remember when I talked about this fic, "Who I am. Who I'll Never Be", and said that it was too angsty for me and wasn't reading it? Well, I gave it a second chance (I often do).

The angst is there, it's a bit tiresome with it; and I want to kick * Bruce and Dick's balls really hard; and Jason and Tim are a little bit too marysueish (but just a bit). But... well, I have to say that I've got stuck after chapter 7, and am enjoying it plenty. In fact, chapter 20 was so good that I can't wait for the next one. I don't think I've read a runaway chase scene as intense as that one in years. Good stuff, and very, very gen aimed. It* has some mild language here and there, and a little bit of graphical violence: but fundamentally safe for work all around.

----------


## Jackalope89

> So...
> 
> Do you remember when I talked about this fic, "Who I am. Who I'll Never Be", and said that it was too angsty for me and wasn't reading it? Well, I gave it a second chance (I often do).
> 
> The angst is there, it's a bit tiresome with it; and I want to kick that Bruce and Dick's balls really hard; and Jason and Tim are a little bit too marysueish (but just a bit). But... well, I have to say that I've got stuck after chapter 7, and am enjoying it plenty. In fact, chapter 20 was so good that I can't wait for the next one. I don't think Ive read a runaway chase scene as intense as that one in years. Good stuff, and very, very gen aimed. Ir has some mild language here and there, and a little bit of graphical violence: but fundamentally safe for work all around.


Trust me, I know how you feel. I'm not big on angst either, but the author does just suck you in with it.

And you can imagine that Jason will invest in something with more speed in the future. Like rocket jets.

----------


## Zaresh

> Trust me, I know how you feel. I'm not big on angst either, but the author does just suck you in with it.
> 
> And you can imagine that Jason will invest in something with more speed in the future. Like rocket jets.


Yeah, definitely.
(Rocket jets! Damn, that could've been sweet)
*spoilers:*
But the thing being so sturdy has probably saved him when he rolled all over xd.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Sergard

maddie(@brucewaynehomeforangrychildren)




writtenskyes




yopi

----------


## Sergard

fishtre

----------


## kaimaciel

Something controversial may happen during the 3 Jokers to Jason and Barbara:

_"Might this be the time for DC Comics to go back to Geoff Johns and ask him to smooth things out, as he did with Rebirth? DC Comics can’t deny the popularity of his Doomsday Clock comic book, and the critical and commercial success that DC Rebirth initially brought to the whole line. No sign of his and Jason Fabok‘s Three Jokers yet on the schedules and Fabok is currently working on the third issue – but I am told there is a scene in the second book with Barbara Gordon and Jason Todd that will cause waves and probably irk certain fans more than what Tom King did to Wally West and Poison Ivy combined."_

----------


## Zaresh

> Something controversial may happen during the 3 Jokers to Jason and Barbara:
> 
> *"Might this be the time for DC Comics to go back to Geoff Johns and ask him to smooth things out, as he did with Rebirth? DC Comics can’t deny the popularity of his Doomsday Clock comic book, and the critical and commercial success that DC Rebirth initially brought to the whole line. No sign of his and Jason Fabok‘s Three Jokers yet on the schedules and Fabok is currently working on the third issue – but I am told there is a scene in the second book with Barbara Gordon and Jason Todd that will cause waves and probably irk certain fans more than what Tom King did to Wally West and Poison Ivy combined."*


He's going to ship them both. He may even make them, you know, have a bed scene.

Yeah, that's my bet. That would be very polemical for fans. It's not Jason attacking Babs: happened in the games already and fans didn't overreact. A lot may, if they hook up.

In another news, you guys want to read this fic. You will have a good time, I guarantee. It's not completed, not yet. But just for the first chapter alone, you will enjoy it greatly. Totally gen and sfw: Life's a Game.

(I hate posting from my tablet)

----------


## Sergard

> Something controversial may happen during the 3 Jokers to Jason and Barbara:
> 
> _"Might this be the time for DC Comics to go back to Geoff Johns and ask him to smooth things out, as he did with Rebirth? DC Comics can’t deny the popularity of his Doomsday Clock comic book, and the critical and commercial success that DC Rebirth initially brought to the whole line. No sign of his and Jason Fabok‘s Three Jokers yet on the schedules and Fabok is currently working on the third issue – but I am told there is a scene in the second book with Barbara Gordon and Jason Todd that will cause waves and probably irk certain fans more than what Tom King did to Wally West and Poison Ivy combined."_


What did Tom King do to Poison Ivy?

Maybe Jason and Barbara will dress up as Joker and Harley Quinn - or as Harley Quinn and Joker xD

----------


## Jackalope89

> What did Tom King do to Poison Ivy?
> 
> Maybe Jason and Barbara will dress up as Joker and Harley Quinn - or as Harley Quinn and Joker xD


Ivy mind controlled most of the world out of nowhere in Batman, and was killed in HiC.

----------


## kaimaciel

Tom King "killed" Poison Ivy during Heroes in Crisis, she was reborn from a plant at the end so nothing happened. 

Maybe Joker will switch things around: beat up Barbara and shoot Jason and then show Batman pictures of him naked.

----------


## Sergard

> Tom King "killed" Poison Ivy during Heroes in Crisis, she was reborn from a plant at the end so nothing happened. 
> 
> Maybe Joker will switch things around: beat up Barbara and shoot Jason and then show Batman pictures of him naked.


Or Jason shoots Joker and Barbara shows Batman pictures of naked Joker.

----------


## kaimaciel

> Or Jason shoots Joker and Barbara shows Batman pictures of naked Joker.


Batman: Oh God! My eyes! MY EYES!

Or maybe, Joker will try to do something to Jason and Barbara is the one who shoots him before he does.

----------


## Zaresh

> Or Jason shoots Joker and Barbara shows Batman pictures of naked Joker.


Yikes, I don't like where this is going, guys.
(XD)

----------


## Drako

> He's going to ship them both. He may even make them, you know, have a bed scene.
> 
> Yeah, that's my bet. That would be very polemical for fans. It's not Jason attacking Babs: happened in the games already and fans didn't overreact. A lot may, if they hook up.
> 
> In another news, you guys want to read this fic. You will have a good time, I guarantee. It's not completed, not yet. But just for the first chapter alone, you will enjoy it greatly. Totally gen and sfw: Life's a Game.
> 
> (I hate posting from my tablet)


How Jason and Barbara having sex can be worse than what Tom King did to Wally?

----------


## Sergard

> How Jason and Barbara having sex can be worse than what Tom King did to Wally?


Maybe Barbara gets pregnant, the baby is sent back in time - and eventually becomes the Joker.

----------


## Drako

> Maybe Barbara gets pregnant, the baby is sent back in time - and eventually becomes the Joker.


Lol Ok, that would be pretty bad

----------


## kaimaciel

> Maybe Barbara gets pregnant, the baby is sent back in time - and eventually becomes the Joker.


Jesus! That would be bottom of the barrel bad writing!

----------


## Restingvoice

It's not just shipping, it's the value of the character. Babs has been paired with almost every member of the family at this point. The main and accepted one is Dick, but she's dated Luke (while doing a character assassination on Dick), planned to marry Tim in Arkham Knight, teased with Jason, and then there's Bruce Timm's official Batman fanfic. 

Barbara is her own character, not the Bat-family bicycle.

It looks really bad on top of her most popular story being the one where she's sexually harassed, and that DC is apparently so possessive of her being Batgirl they ban other Batgirls from appearing in comics for a while. It just reeks of fanboy's fantasy. A canon one.

----------


## Zaresh

> It's not just shipping, it's the value of the character. Babs has been paired with almost every member of the family at this point. The main and accepted one is Dick, but she's dated Luke (while doing a character assassination on Dick), planned to marry Tim in Arkham Knight, teased with Jason, and then there's Bruce Timm's official Batman fanfic. 
> 
> Barbara is her own character, not the Bat-family bicycle.
> 
> It looks really bad on top of her most popular story being the one where she's sexually harassed, and that DC is apparently so possessive of her being Batgirl they ban other Batgirls from appearing in comics for a while. It just reeks of fanboy's fantasy. A canon one.


And that's why I stated my third point. Edit: I mean, you expanded it. But it's what I had in mind, at least, in Barbara's side. Jason, too, would have something similar working for him.

----------


## Rise

> Something controversial may happen during the 3 Jokers to Jason and Barbara:
> 
> _"Might this be the time for DC Comics to go back to Geoff Johns and ask him to smooth things out, as he did with Rebirth? DC Comics cant deny the popularity of his Doomsday Clock comic book, and the critical and commercial success that DC Rebirth initially brought to the whole line. No sign of his and Jason Faboks Three Jokers yet on the schedules and Fabok is currently working on the third issue  but I am told there is a scene in the second book with Barbara Gordon and Jason Todd that will cause waves and probably irk certain fans more than what Tom King did to Wally West and Poison Ivy combined."_


I trust Johns to make a good book. So, I'm not worried about whatever it's that going to be "controversial".

----------


## Sergard

> It's not just shipping, it's the value of the character. Babs has been paired with almost every member of the family at this point. The main and accepted one is Dick, but she's dated Luke (while doing a character assassination on Dick), *planned to marry Tim in Arkham Knight*, teased with Jason, and then there's Bruce Timm's official Batman fanfic. 
> 
> Barbara is her own character, not the Bat-family bicycle.
> 
> It looks really bad on top of her most popular story being the one where she's sexually harassed, and that DC is apparently so possessive of her being Batgirl they ban other Batgirls from appearing in comics for a while. It just reeks of fanboy's fantasy. A canon one.


I think I actually missed that information in Arkham Knight. When was that announced?
But hey, maybe that's the "irking": Jason will be the next Batgirl  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Restingvoice

> I think I actually missed that information in Arkham Knight. When was that announced?
> But hey, maybe that's the "irking": Jason will be the next Batgirl


It's in one of the endings or post-ending content I believe. Nightwing DLC maybe? Mentioned when Dick talks to Alfred over comms? I don't really remember when or how. I think they're away, maybe even on their honeymoon, and that's why Dick returns from Bludhaven to handle Penguin's breakout.

----------


## Zaresh

> I think I actually missed that information in Arkham Knight. When was that announced?
> But hey, maybe that's the "irking": Jason will be the next Batgirl


I'm not against it.
At all.
I mean, I wouldn't mind either if he ends as Kate's partner/Nightwing either. He can fill the lancer role nicely, without stopping to be the hero (as in protagonists) of his own story. I'm personally all open to everything, as long as it's well written and makes sense in story, and with the previous story in the case of the main universe.

Tim marrying with Babs was from the true end, I think. There was a photo, maybe?

----------


## kaimaciel

In the ending we see Jim Gordon looking at his phone and a text from Tim appears to remind him to bring the ring. In the Nightwing DLC, Lucious tells Dick that he got pictures from Tim and Barbara Gordon-Drake's honeymoon, then in the Robin DLC, Tim complains to Barbara that they should be enjoying their honeymoon at the beach instead of following Two-Face.

----------


## Sergard

Paolo Pantalena

_Artemis

#redhood #dccomics_

----------


## Sergard

@moon115115

----------


## Sergard

Nanami Ando Sweeney

----------


## Sergard

H. L. Hu

----------


## Sergard

H. L. Hu



liz




@kaiitan

----------


## Sergard

Red Hood: Outlaw #42 - finalized cover

----------


## RedBird

Ha ha, nice title

I wonder if that's a deliberate reference to James Bond in regards to the story, or just a cute use of the pun.

EDIT: I'm still wondering about the status with Isabel, her and Jason's relationship is so vague, and on and off, (and in a constant loop of just dates) it's honestly hard to tell whether or not they are still together at this point.

----------


## Wrestler

> Who was Jason's first villain as Robin?
> Pre-Crisis
> Post-Crisis
> New 52
> Rebirth


I'm just going to reply what I know. His first villain as his first appearance as Robin in Nightwing Year One was Killer Croc.

----------


## Sergard

> Ha ha, nice title
> 
> I wonder if that's a deliberate reference to James Bond in regards to the story, or just a cute use of the pun.


That's a James Bond reference?

Fun fact: Jason's mask in the background and Jason's mask in the front are different. One is missing the little pointed part in the middle.

----------


## RedBird

> Paolo Pantalena
> 
> _Artemis
> 
> #redhood #dccomics_


Nice, also I'm only just realizing that Artemis doesn't have her headgear. Can't believe I didn't notice that before.

----------


## Sergard

Dexter Soy has posted some old RHatO outlines.

Dexter Soy

_Who remembers the chat they had on the rooftop_



Dexter Soy

_Bizarro with Artemis’ “less than average-sized” Axe_

----------


## Zaresh

> Ha ha, nice title
> 
> I wonder if that's a deliberate reference to James Bond in regards to the story, or just a cute use of the pun.
> 
> EDIT: I'm still wondering about the status with Isabel, her and Jason's relationship is so vague, and on and off, (and in a constant loop of just dates) it's honestly hard to tell whether or not they are still together at this point.


She seems like a friend with benefits at this point. I suck at this stuff, but they seem friends that may hook up for more, but just for enjoymemt from time to time.

----------


## RedBird

> She seems like a friend with benefits at this point. I suck at this stuff, but they seem friends that may hook up for more, but just for enjoymemt from time to time.


I guess she does seem more like an old friend than an old flame.

----------


## Sergard

> She seems like a friend with benefits at this point. I suck at this stuff, but they seem friends that may hook up for more, but just for enjoymemt from time to time.


The last time Isabel was around, it felt like Jason was too distracted by other things (Roy's death, his return to Gotham, concluding the Penguin case so that the Su sisters could start a new and legal life) to really be interested in a relationship. And it seemed like Isabel felt and accepted that.

I hope it won't be weird when Isabel and Artemis (and probably Essence too) meet for the first time.

----------


## RedBird

> The last time Isabel was around, it felt like Jason was too distracted by other things (Roy's death, his return to Gotham, concluding the Penguin case so that the Su sisters could start a new and legal life) to really be interested in a relationship. And it seemed like Isabel felt and accepted that.


That's an interesting take too. Considering how cool she was with Jason skipping town and leaving Dog behind, you might be right about that.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> The last time Isabel was around, it felt like Jason was too distracted by other things (Roy's death, his return to Gotham, concluding the Penguin case so that the Su sisters could start a new and legal life) to really be interested in a relationship. And it seemed like Isabel felt and accepted that.
> 
> I hope it won't be weird when Isabel and Artemis (and probably Essence too) meet for the first time.


I felt the opposite, precisely because of the circumstances, Jason intentionally rekindled his relationship with Isabel, who in turn, accepted his advances.

----------


## Zaresh

> The last time Isabel was around, it felt like Jason was too distracted by other things (Roy's death, his return to Gotham, concluding the Penguin case so that the Su sisters could start a new and legal life) to really be interested in a relationship. And it seemed like Isabel felt and accepted that.
> 
> I hope it won't be weird when Isabel and Artemis (and probably Essence too) meet for the first time.


Haha. I wonder how it will work. I guess Art and Jason could end being platonic; Isabel may be actually an evil skinwalker; and Essence thinks Jason is evil and out of his head, and she's probably very angry. What a picture to behold!

----------


## Tomar8989

> Haha. I wonder how it will work. I guess Art and Jason could end being platonic; Isabel may be actually an evil skinwalker; and Essence thinks Jason is evil and out of his head, and she's probably very angry. What a picture to behold!


Scotty did say that Artemis is Jasons fav girl on twitter so they are most likely endgame with the backing of the fans. Also there is a reason why issues 26 through 37 sucked. Without Artemis and Bizz the comic feels flat in some ways. Even in the begining of issue 41 it shows Jason thinking about the kiss with Artemis and even in 40 when Jason sees them , his mind goes back to the same kiss. Roy made the comment that Jason has it bad for Artemis, as readers we have never seen Jason fall this hard for a woman despite him being with isabel. Lastly. Jason kissed her again although to get her out of mind control but the intent was there to reconnect. Surprisingly lodell or editorial is pointing in the direction of more than a platonic relationship with Artemis.

----------


## Zaresh

> Scotty did say that Artemis is Jasons fav girl on twitter so they are most likely endgame with the backing of the fans. Also there is a reason why issues 26 through 37 sucked. Without Artemis and Bizz the comic feels flat in some ways. Even in the begining of issue 41 it shows Jason thinking about the kiss with Artemis and even in 40 when Jason sees them , his mind goes back to the same kiss. Roy made the comment that Jason has it bad for Artemis, as readers we have never seen Jason fall this hard for a woman despite him being with isabel. Lastly. Jason kissed her again although to get her out of mind control but the intent was there to reconnect. Surprisingly lodell or editorial is pointing in the direction of more than a platonic relationship with Artemis.


Ok, I trust your post. I hope they won't let  us down :3.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I'd temper my expectations for, well, pretty much any future story developments, Lobdell has said many times that he doesn't like to plan stories too far ahead since he believes stories must be as unpredictable as real life and ultimately he's at the whims of editorial and with 5G looming on the horizon, there's nothing set in stone.

----------


## Tomar8989

> I'd temper my expectations for, well, pretty much any future story developments, Lobdell has said many times that he doesn't like to plan stories too far ahead since he believes stories must be as unpredictable as real life and ultimately he's at the whims of editorial and with 5G looming on the horizon, there's nothing set in stone.


I agree somewhat but it's a business at the end of the day, issues 26- 37 didn't really sell well or gained the attention that the previous issues did. At one point Red Hood and the Outlaws was one of the top selling comics in rebirth. Editorial was definitely a fan of Jason and Artemis being together as more than just friends as evidence with the writing of the previous issues and even the latest issue coming up. One of the things that made the previous issues so great was the chemistry between the team and the writing. Which of course made the most money and unless it's a serious reboot of the universe like rebirth I doubt the Red Hood Comics are going to change drastically anytime soon. Plus lodbell would have had to plan Artemis and Bizzaro coming back eventually,editorial gave him free rein since August 2018 lol but with the sells not being what they used to be he certainly would have had to bring the whole team back together. I even saw Reddit post of people who stopped reading the comics after issue 26 and now we're coming back to read it again

----------


## Tomar8989

> Ok, I trust your post. I hope they won't let  us down :3.


I certainly hope so too although it wouldn't really make sense from a writeing standpoint to suddenly make Isabel his one true love despite his history with Artemis and her being back. Also to be honest no one really cares about Isabel I think there are more people in favor of Jason being with Supergirl or even Rose rather than Isabel lol

----------


## Zaresh

That reminds me, do we have the sales for December yet? (RHATO 41 was technically a December issue)

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I agree somewhat but it's a business at the end of the day, issues 26- 37 didn't really sell well or gained the attention that the previous issues did. At one point Red Hood and the Outlaws was one of the top selling comics in rebirth. Editorial was definitely a fan of Jason and Artemis being together as more than just friends as evidence with the writing of the previous issues and even the latest issue coming up. One of the things that made the previous issues so great was the chemistry between the team and the writing. Which of course made the most money and unless it's a serious reboot of the universe like rebirth I doubt the Red Hood Comics are going to change drastically anytime soon. Plus lodbell would have had to plan Artemis and Bizzaro coming back eventually,editorial gave him free rein since August 2018 lol but with the sells not being what they used to be he certainly would have had to bring the whole team back together. I even saw Reddit post of people who stopped reading the comics after issue 26 and now we're coming back to read it again


Lobdell has anything but free reign on the title, and Jason went solo as a shakeup to increase sales, since the Dark Trinity was in a downward spiral. Something that it worked for a while before dropping again.

----------


## Sergard

> I certainly hope so too although it wouldn't really make sense from a writeing standpoint to suddenly make Isabel his one true love despite his history with Artemis and her being back. Also to be honest no one really cares about Isabel I think there are more people in favor of Jason being with Supergirl or even Rose rather than Isabel lol


To be fair, Isabel is a side character in RHatO. So people who could like Jason and Isabel are already restricted within the group of Jason fans. People in favor of, for example, Supergirl could be Supergirl fans who like the idea of Kara dating Jason or Jason fans who like the idea of Jason dating Kara.

Personally, I learned to like Isabel as a character - but I'm not in favor of her being Jason's love interest. Isabel is a civilian - and she already had to suffer from a Joker attack and was involuntarily part of a space mission. A life with Jason is just too dangerous for her. There are DC characters that work great in a relationship with a civilian but I don't believe that Jason is one of them. 




> That reminds me, do we have the sales for December yet? (RHATO 41 was technically a December issue)


I haven't seen any numbers yet.
Does anyone remember if December issues, that were pushed to January, were listed in the December sales last year or not?

----------


## Zaresh

> I haven't seen any numbers yet.
> Does anyone remember if December issues, that were pushed to January, were listed in the December sales last year or not?


No December issues in January that I know (edit: I mean, not without delays). This year has been tricky, because Wednesday fell in January First and DC had a few series that were a bit behind their original/beginning of the year schedule, like RHATO (or so I think). BUT I remember Batgirl's issue for December 2018 being pushed to be released in January. And it does appears in the table of January 2019 that they have in Comichron (no Batgirl issue for the previous month table).

----------


## Tomar8989

> To be fair, Isabel is a side character in RHatO. So people who could like Jason and Isabel are already restricted within the group of Jason fans. People in favor of, for example, Supergirl could be Supergirl fans who like the idea of Kara dating Jason or Jason fans who like the idea of Jason dating Kara.
> 
> 
> 
> Personally, I learned to like Isabel as a character - but I'm not in favor of her being Jason's love interest. Isabel is a civilian - and she already had to suffer from a Joker attack and was involuntarily part of a space mission. A life with Jason is just too dangerous for her. There are DC characters that work great in a relationship with a civilian but I don't believe that Jason is one of them. 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't seen any numbers yet.
> Does anyone remember if December issues, that were pushed to January, were listed in the December sales last year or not?



True I dont hate her but your right she is a no go for Jason as his life as a super hero puts her in danger and most likely not what she wants in life.

----------


## RedBird

Wasn't Isabel under the impression that Jason had quit the vigilante business and had settled down for good as a casino owner? Surely the deception will come into play eventually.

----------


## Sergard

> Wasn't Isabel under the impression that Jason had quit the vigilante business and had settled down for good as a casino owner? Surely the deception will come into play eventually.


Yeah, she was and probably still is. But who knows, maybe Jason was actually thinking about settling down and only wanted to finish the stuff with Cobblepot - and then Essence appeared and Cobblepot escaped. And then Lex Luthor appeared. Because of course everything has to explode within a night.

----------


## Sergard

chessu(@onipilot)

----------


## Sergard

> [...]
> 
> 
> And here's a new fanart by JJMK.


There's a fanfic to this fanart called "Second Death" on Archive of Our Own, in case someone is interested in reading it. Little warning: Some wording could sound like hinted slash and character personalities and reactions are "fan-inspired" (like the fanart itself).
The story is basically that Jason was accidentally killed by Bruce in RHatO #25 and is 10 years later revived in a pit.

----------


## Zaresh

> There's a fanfic to this fanart called "Second Death" on Archive of Our Own, in case someone is interested in reading it. Little warning: Some wording could sound like hinted slash and character personalities and reactions are "fan-inspired" (like the fanart itself).
> The story is basically that Jason was accidentally killed by Bruce in RHatO #25 and is 10 years later revived in a pit.


Oh, I read it. It was quite good, honestly. If anyone is going to check it, its weakest point would be that Damian is very fanfictiony (in my opinion). It's true that it appearently hints to slash, but I think it was measured.

(Geez, I barely can put together coherent thoughts into words. I hate being sick, this cold has hit hard)

----------


## Sergard

> Oh, I read it. It was quite good, honestly. If anyone is going to check it, its weakest point would be that Damian is very fanfictiony (in my opinion). It's true that it appearently hints to slash, but I think it was measured.
> 
> (Geez, I barely can put together coherent thoughts into words. I hate being sick, this cold has hit hard)


Did you maybe read "Life's a Game" too? It uses RHatO #25, TT Annual, a Dick who's no longer a Ric, the new Drake identity and stuff from Leviathan.

(HA! I'm sick too. At least I'm taking someone down with me.)

----------


## Zaresh

> Did you maybe read "Life's a Game" too? It uses RHatO #25, TT Annual, a Dick who's no longer a Ric, the new Drake identity and stuff from Leviathan.
> 
> (HA! I'm sick too. At least I'm taking someone down with me.)


Yep. I even recommended it back in page 6 :3. Fun as hell. And it was... very therapeutic.
(I'm falling with my familly here. The four of us, all of us, yesssss  :Cool: )

----------


## Sergard

> Yep. I even recommended it back in page 6 :3. Fun as hell. And it was... very therapeutic.
> (I'm falling with my familly here. The four of us, all of us, yesssss )


Therapeutic indeed. Sometimes it helps when people just shout their feelings at each other. Even if these feelings are ugly. (I'm still waiting for a Jason chapter.)
And sorry, I didn't notice your recommendation. The upcoming Babs and Jason thing in Three Jokers was very distracting.

(Do I hear Ed Sheeran singing in the distance? ..._Oh, should my people fall then surely I'll do the same_ ...)

----------


## Zaresh

> Therapeutic indeed. Sometimes it helps when people just shout their feelings at each other. Even if these feelings are ugly. (I'm still waiting for a Jason chapter.)
> And sorry, I didn't notice your recommendation. The upcoming Babs and Jason thing in Three Jokers was very distracting.
> 
> (Do I hear Ed Sheeran singing in the distance? ..._Oh, should my people fall then surely I'll do the same_ ...)


Beautiful song.
(Off topic: dragons are cool. I might not like the movies, but Bilbo was awesome in the book and Martin Freeman was a perfect cast)

----------


## Sergard

ellen




Mikolaj Spionek




Mikolaj Spionek

----------


## Sergard

Here's a little review of RH:O #41 by Exploring the Time Lab.

An interesting point is the interpretation of Jason saying "your job was to keep us together" to Artemis.




> [..]Jason turns it around on her asking if it wasn't her job to keep the team together. I don't think it was.
> 
> The closest to her promising to hold things together (at least that I recall) was their talk while Luthor worked on Bizarro. They were basically just saying that they only really had each other. *I can only read his "your job was to keep us together" bit as him being mad that she didn't let him come with them.* I didn't expect to see bitterness at being left behind but it's not really touched up on any further.[...]

----------


## Zaresh

> Here's a little review of RH:O #41 by Exploring the Time Lab.
> 
> An interesting point is the interpretation of Jason saying "your job was to keep us together" to Artemis.


Well, it wouldn't be the first time he's petty about being left bebind, right? Or the second time.

It's a possibility, I guess.

Edit: also, I don't think Jason was comparing himself with the kids about egoes. He would think himself as someone who went over his head, but that's not exactly an ego issue. It's also a trait many teens share. This thing about egoes has more to do with them thinking of themselves as the next evil masterminds who would rule the world. Something Luthor fed them with.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Here's a little review of RH:O #41 by Exploring the Time Lab.
> 
> An interesting point is the interpretation of Jason saying "your job was to keep us together" to Artemis.


Considering what happened to him after Artemis and Biz were sucked through that doorway, he probably felt pretty alone. Especially when Roy died. Yeah, he reformed the Su Sisters, but they weren't exactly family. Artemis (be it as a love interest or not) and Biz, ARE Jason's family.

----------


## Zaresh

Following some discussion that arose in the Controversial opinions thread, about Jason in a solo book vs Jason in a team book, I was in the team side (even if it's only two characters teaming up) and @Rise was in the solo side. I asked this:




> I don't know, @Rise. I'm thinking about the kind of characters that work well for me in a solo book, and they are not much like Jason (the closer would be Moon Knight). Maybe with the right writer, but, I don't know. What would you had in mind for him in a solo run? Sell me the idea  (I'm very open to change my mind)


And even if it was addressed to @Rise, I was wondering, do you guys have any ideas for a solo book?

For me, until now, nothing has really worked. Lost Days wasn't really a story about Jason's on his own as much as how Jason grew to be the Red Hood in UtH. And this current RH:O half-run wasn't really that well worked either. If it had been about Jason solving cases in a more detectivesque work, like Batman is supposed to be, it would have been great. I still think that Jason works better when he shares his "journey" with someone else; but that kind of solo, I would've read with joy. He's a lot like Moon Knight, and I'm a fan of moony. But he also is different, different enough that I don't think he could end in one (emotional) piece that journey if he were by his own; and I think that, ultimately, by the nature of his character, he would turn into something I wouldn't like to read.

But as I said, I'm open minded. If you guys have any ideas, don't be shy and share! I might buy  :Big Grin: .
And we could have a good time in the meanwhile.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Honestly, I enjoyed Jason's solo act during Outlaw a lot more than the latter half of the Dark Trinity. I've never find Bizarro or Artemis to be that compelling characters on their own, only really working as foils to Jason (unlike Kori and Roy that were interesting without Jason). The problem is that the Outlaw was very obviously derailed, with plot points being dropped left and right, retcons or being quickly and unsatisfyingly solved. That said, I'm probably biased since I found RH/A to be the best period of N52's Jason, and that one was very close in tone and approach to The Outlaw.

----------


## Sergard

Solo book means that Jason is the only main character throughout the run but team-ups with other characters (guest appearances) for a mission are still allowed, right?

----------


## Zaresh

> Solo book means that Jason is the only main character throughout the run but team-ups with other characters (guest appearances) for a mission are still allowed, right?


If they're guest appearances for an issue, I guess they're allowed.

----------


## Jackalope89

Eh, team book. Jason works best when he has a constant to bounce off of. Like with Artemis and Biz, each in their own way.

----------


## Restingvoice

If Jason goes solo, I fully expect him to go down the solo Batman route, as in, he will have so much angst and depression he will endanger himself. 

At the very least, he needs an Alfred.

----------


## Sergard

@stratosmacca (pre-crisis Jason)




@adamtateart




@jasondraws

----------


## Sergard

Mike Johnson



Mack

----------


## Sergard

Jason going solo doesn't have to mean that his family completely disappears. Jason could go on a mission alone while everyone else stays at home - but Jason could still call regularly to ask if everything and everyone is fine. And there could at least be some tiny side stories about the rest of the Outlaw family from time to time. The main part of every issue is Jason's story but sometimes the last five pages or so give an update on Artemis, Bizarro and the kids.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Jason being solo only means he doesn't have a team, not that he doesn't have a supporting cast.

----------


## AJpyro

I'd feel better about Jason going/getting a Solo if I knew Artemis and Biz would appear in other books that would help develop them.

But if this was to go that route, I'd like Jason to be on the Supernatural side of things, maybr even a Vertigo book like GA: Longbow Hunters.

PS: How crazy is it that we are just 1 year away from a ten year anniversary for Red Hood being an actual book!?

----------


## Zaresh

> @stratosmacca (pre-crisis Jason)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @adamtateart
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Love these. The last one is freaking awesome, great work with those markers. The first one, I will always like any pre-Crisis fanart and this one is pretty good. Middle one is pretty good too.

----------


## Zaresh

Mmmm... I think that few writers know how to deal with a supporting cast nowadays. If he goes solo, I'm sure that we would find regular cast in those pages very rarely, if at all.

An occult detective/adventurer of the supernatural with street-level enemies here and there for Jason would be my dreamt book. But I seriously doubt DC would give it the green. I mean, it's not like they don't have characters like that already, and they're not using them. Even Constantine is struggling with it. And he's an A lister; but they're struggling to find a good writer for him, and one that knows what's the appeal of the character. I don't think they would try that kind of story for a character like Red Hood.

Jason without the constant support of others characters, I still think he's going to spiral down into self-destruction. Appearing here and there isn't going to be enough in my opinion. If they do appear every issue, then, Ok; I can read that without expecting the character to embrace full gloom and angst in the end.

----------


## Sergard

@Zaresh: Thanks, now I want a story with Jason and John and we both know this will never happen.  :Frown: 




dontots

----------


## Zaresh

> @Zaresh: Thanks, now I want a story with Jason and John and we both know this will never happen. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dontots


I fell terribly sorry, not only because I made you sad, but also because now I want that story too :/.

----------


## Jackalope89

> @Zaresh: Thanks, now I want a story with Jason and John and we both know this will never happen. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dontots


I know of a fanfic series that has Jason, Constantine, Raven, and a few others as the central characters. Its kind of spotty in terms of characterization and what not though. And both Jason and Raven come off as Mary Sue/Gary Stu at times. Though it does include more minor characters like Mar'i Grayson, Jon Kent (a rarity in fanfics), etc.

----------


## Sergard

> I know of a fanfic series that has Jason, Constantine, Raven, and a few others as the central characters. Its kind of spotty in terms of characterization and what not though. And both Jason and Raven come off as Mary Sue/Gary Stu at times. Though it does include more minor characters like Mar'i Grayson, Jon Kent (a rarity in fanfics), etc.


Can you remember the title? I'm curious.

----------


## Zaresh

> Can you remember the title? I'm curious.


I think it's the one that's loosely based in Bombshells. If it is, the name is Hear the Bells.


Edit: or maybe not. The one based in Teen Titans, ""Hopes for a Bastard" also had JayRachel as a ship, iirc. But I don't think it had John on it.

(Posting links with a tablet is hardmode. Huph... >_<)

----------


## Zaresh

I just thought.

What if the controversial thing between Jason and Barbara in the 3 Jokers story is... that Barbara kills Joker because Jason, to give him peace, more than for herself, given that she probably doesn't need it?

Now that, that there, I think could create a titanic maelstorm that could make the fanbase drown.

----------


## Restingvoice

> I just thought.
> 
> What if the controversial thing between Jason and Barbara in the 3 Jokers story is... that Barbara kills Joker because Jason, to give him peace, more than for herself, given that she probably doesn't need it?
> 
> Now that, that there, I think could create a titanic maelstrom that could make the fanbase drown.


It won't make me drown since she's done that in Death of The Family, she tried to chainsaw Joker because she couldn't stand it anymore after what he did to her mother and herself. In Batman Eternal, she's also the one on the verge of killing Jason Bard for what she did to her dad and it was Jason who stopped her.

----------


## Sergard

@avataraandy



Shai

----------


## Restingvoice

> 


He looks like a shoujo manga villain. Douchebag Prince type.

----------


## Sergard

> He looks like a shoujo manga villain. Douchebag Prince type.


The art style reminds me a little bit of JoJo's Bizarre Adventure.

----------


## Zaresh

> It won't make me drown since she's done that in Death of The Family, she tried to chainsaw Joker because she couldn't stand it anymore after what he did to her mother and herself. In Batman Eternal, she's also the one on the verge of killing Jason Bard for what she did to her dad and it was Jason who stopped her.


Yeah, but my point is, she wouldn't do for herself, but for Jason. That's my breaking point: that she could do for someone else, not for herself. And this is she doing it, not almost doing it, keep that in mind :3

----------


## Sergard

Since there are three Jokers, I'm expecting that two are going to die. Maybe one Joker is killed by an other.
I can rather see Jason killing Barbara's Joker than Barbara killing Jason's. The Joker that killed Jason looks the goofiest out of all three.
So my guess is that Jason kills "The Killing Joke"-Joker and Jason's Joker is killed by the remaining Joker.

Although there wouldn't be anything controversial about such a story.

----------


## Sergard

Sean Gordon Murphy

sean murphy Jason Todd White Knight.jpg

----------


## Zaresh

> Since there are three Jokers, I'm expecting that two are going to die. Maybe one Joker is killed by an other.
> I can rather see Jason killing Barbara's Joker than Barbara killing Jason's. The Joker that killed Jason looks the goofiest out of all three.
> So my guess is that Jason kills "The Killing Joke"-Joker and Jason's Joker is killed by the remaining Joker.
> 
> Although there wouldn't be anything controversial about such a story.


Yeah, Jason killing a joker for Babs wouldn't be controversial. It's what everyone is asking him to do ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (killing jokers, I mean).
Controversial for me means that either no one is expecting it, or it would sit wrong for a lot of people, either because the ethics behind are dubious, or because it's something way OOC for one or both of them.


YAY! For Jason in WK. Finally!

----------


## Katana500

Actually never mind I just saw it was mentioned above! Ignore me! Im a muppet!

I am still curious about what the Barbara - Jason controversial thing could be.

----------


## Sergard

crazyaddicti0ns



Crisis Aegyl



Frederic Pham Chuong

----------


## Sergard

> Actually never mind I just saw it was mentioned above! Ignore me! Im a muppet!
> 
> I am still curious about what the Barbara - Jason controversial thing could be.


There was a little discussion about the BC article starting on page 6.
We had some fun ideas for the controversy.  :Wink:

----------


## Katana500

> There was a little discussion about the BC article starting on page 6.
> We had some fun ideas for the controversy.


Cheers pal! I must have missed it! I'll read through them now!

----------


## Sergard

> Yeah, Jason killing a joker for Babs wouldn't be controversial. It's what everyone is asking him to do ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (killing jokers, I mean).
> Controversial for me means that either no one is expecting it, or it would sit wrong for a lot of people, either because the ethics behind are dubious, or because it's something way OOC for one or both of them.
> 
> 
> YAY! For Jason in WK. Finally!


How many issues is BATMAN: CURSE OF THE WHITE KNIGHT going to have?
I'm so curious for Jason and how he'll look like. I sometimes forget that he's older than Dick in this universe.

----------


## Zaresh

> How many issues is BATMAN: CURSE OF THE WHITE KNIGHT going to have?
> I'm so curious for Jason and how he'll look like. I sometimes forget that he's older than Dick in this universe.


No idea. White Knight was 8 issues long, and this sequel doesn't have an ending date that I can find.

----------


## Jackalope89

Other then those that demand it only be Bruce and Joker, I don't think many would complain (most would probably root for it) if Jason killed Babs' Joker. Or really, if Jason killed any Joker.

----------


## Zaresh

Just a notice.

Comicfan has posted the sixth chapter of Life's a Game. It's pure Jason. I loved it.

It was perfect.
I wonder if this one is going to be the last one. I think it is, but I'm not sure. Anyways, it's a very, very good fic, guys, give it a try :3.

----------


## Sergard

> Just a notice.
> 
> Comicfan has posted the sixth chapter of Life's a Game. It's pure Jason. I loved it.
> 
> It was perfect.
> I wonder if this one is going to be the last one. I think it is, but I'm not sure. Anyways, it's a very, very good fic, guys, give it a try :3.


Cool. I was looking forward to the Jason chapter. It's nice, very nice.


Brent Peeples




Tannhauser




Duygu Melek

----------


## Sergard

htnks

----------


## Sergard

htnks



liz



remina

----------


## Sergard

> Other then those that demand it only be Bruce and Joker, I don't think many would complain (most would probably root for it) if Jason killed Babs' Joker. Or really, if Jason killed any Joker.


By the way, do we even know if the three Jokers are three separate entities - or are they actually one being with three bodies?

----------


## Sergard

Fade



Jesterott




threeleaves

----------


## Sergard

MON (Jason and Cass)





MON

----------


## Eto

Can't you make a seperate fan-art thread or something? There's more fan-art than actual discussing here lol.
Some of the fan-art on the earlier pages are too much I mean what the...

----------


## Eto

I'll stick with RHATO book, but I really want the newbies to go tbh and have the Dark Trinity back.

----------


## Zaresh

> Can't you make a seperate fan-art thread or something? There's more fan-art than actual discussing here lol.
> Some of the fan-art on the earlier pages are too much I mean what the...


It depends on the day. It's always been like this. It's the average for most character threads actually. Sometimes we discuss three pages of full text the same day, some others, we post a dozen fanarts in the same page. Nothing out of the ordinary.

If you want to discuss anything, do as you just did in your next post, prompt a subject to discuss. Me? I like the kids, they can stay. Jason needs his own cast of characters, and they're as fine as any other and give him some purpose besides his own vigilante activity. Someone to take care of, that could help him to see himself in them as some kind of reflection, while he help them, for example.

----------


## Jackalope89

Same. Keep the kids. They're all pretty interesting (and I have a morbid curiosity with Babe in Arms and her Mombie). Combined with the Dark Trinity, they make quite the cast of Outlaws. Even the "tougher" ones in the group are too nice to be outright villains. Turns out that one little boy was the most "evil", but his plans were thwarted by comedic happenstance and timing. Not exactly a recipe of success for a career villain in the long run (lol). Meanwhile the Dark Trinity looks out for them, Ma Gunn possibly provides them with an education (of sorts, as well as a home), and Bizz gets to be the big brother...

Now that I think about it, there is a LOT of opportunity for laughs between gentle and sweet Biz trying to baby Babe in Arms.

----------


## Restingvoice

Keep the fan art. Fan arts are appreciation after all.
Also, keep the kids. They have amazing designs and they enrich the cast. Yeah, the Outlaws have a concept of messed up people finding each other but messed-up kids' work too. Just make sure everyone got enough screen time.

----------


## Eto

> Keep the fan art. Fan arts are appreciation after all.
> Also, keep the kids. They have amazing designs and they enrich the cast. Yeah, the Outlaws have a concept of messed up people finding each other but messed-up kids' work too. Just make sure everyone got enough screen time.



Not when it's creepy art where the artist is alluding to Jason x [any previous Robin]. Eew no.

----------


## Sergard

@Zaresh: Thank you for your fanfic recommendations from a few days ago. I'm reading the latest chapter of "One day at a time" right now - and like always, it's beautiful. This story really tries hard to make me cry.




> Not when it's creepy art where the artist is alluding to Jason x [any previous Robin]. Eew no.


Good thing that there isn't any "creepy art" in this thread.  :Cool:

----------


## Jackalope89

> Not when it's creepy art where the artist is alluding to Jason x [any previous Robin]. Eew no.


Yeah, that really doesn't get posted to this thread. Generally its either individual portraits, bat family stuff, Outlaws, or something a bit humorous.

----------


## Zaresh

> @Zaresh: Thank you for your fanfic recommendations from a few days ago. I'm reading the latest chapter of "One day at a time" right now - and like always, it's beautiful. This story really tries hard to make me cry.


You're welcome  :Smile: . If I see any other JayBats fic, I'll leave a notice in your box. Or if you guys want, I can post those fics here. It's a very short list, after all. "In which Jason becomes Batman", or JayBats, in short.




> Yeah, that really doesn't get posted to this thread. Generally its either individual portraits, bat family stuff, Outlaws, or something a bit humorous.


Or art that can be read as just plain bonding, without shipping of any kind. We post safe for work pieces, and when something can enter certain territories in the link to the artist, for example, we warm beforehand. This is the same for other ships, outside robinshipping: for Kara and Jay (there is NSFW art out there, iirc), or JayArtemis, or whatever.

It's the same for when we post links to fics. We do warm about what you're going to find there.

----------


## Eto

> fishtre


Right......it totally doesn't get posted here. Lmao.

----------


## Zaresh

> Right......it totally doesn't get posted here. Lmao.


Sure, because that cannot be read any other way that shipping those two.
And even if they ship those, what's so gross about it? Do you have a problem with Art and Jason doing cute stuff too?

----------


## Eto

> Sure, because that cannot be read any other way that shipping those two.


I didn't say that.





> And even if they ship those, what's so gross about it? Do you have a problem with Art and Jason doing cute stuff too?


Hey, you may like it, but I don't like it, I just stated my opinion. You shouldn't expect only praise for art, there will be criticism too.

----------


## Zaresh

> I didn't say that.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, you may like it, but I don't like it, I just stated my opinion. You shouldn't expect only praise for art, there will be criticism too.


Nope.
Saying that something is "creepy" because you think it's shipping something you dislike, is not criticism. It's "opinionism".
Criticism is saying, for example, that the artist draws waists in males like they were females (that is, by the way, an actual issue with their art). What you did was complaining that we were posting something you dislike. And because this is a forum, and people have different tastes, this is a thing you're going to find in every corner. I dislike hypermuscled characters, a lot: they're unrealistic and trigger me hard. But I deal with it, because there's nothing wrong with it and plenty of people enjoy it.

I get it, I know that there's stuff here that you dislike. But that's what you're going to find in a public forum. As long as is fair, and safe for work, it's ok to post.

And as I said, we're posting as much art as any other thread. Creating another thread just for art is unnecessary (and probably against rules).

Edit: I'm probably sounding hard and mad. It's not my intention. But it doesn't really sit me well either that someone is implying that posting this or that art is a questionable deed, honestly.

----------


## Sergard

> Right......it totally doesn't get posted here. Lmao.


...
...
...
What?

Jason being sick with a cold and Dick taking a picture for "blackmail" is shipping?

----------


## Eto

> Nope.
> Saying that something is "creepy" because you think it's shipping something you dislike, is not criticism. It's "opinionism".
> Criticism is saying, for example, that the artist draws waists in males like they were females (that is, by the way, an actual issue with their art). What you did was complaining that we were posting something you dislike. And because this is a forum, and people have different tastes, this is a thing you're going to find in every corner. I dislike hypermuscled characters, a lot: they're unrealistic and trigger me hard. But I deal with it, because there's nothing wrong with it and plenty of people enjoy it.
> 
> I get it, I know that there's stuff here that you dislike. But that's what you're going to find in a public forum. As long as is fair, and safe for work, it's ok to post.
> 
> And as I said, we're posting as much art as any other thread. Creating another thread just for art is unnecessary (and probably against rules).
> 
> Edit: I'm probably sounding hard and mad. It's not my intention. But it doesn't really sit me well either that someone is implying that posting this or that art is a questionable deed, honestly.


I don't think it's "shipping", I think it's pure cringe and unlike Jason to wear furry clothes. Uuh no, you are allowed to post about that if you don't like it provided that you are civil.

Eeh no, doesn't sound hard/mad to me. Never said/tried to imply this is a "questionable deed", but whatever.
Yeah I'm okay with art here in this thread, just not okay with some fan-art which make Jason look very "unlike" Jason and I'm allowed to voice my dissatisfaction just like you're allowed to share the art.

----------


## Zaresh

> I don't think it's "shipping", I think it's pure cringe and unlike Jason to wear furry clothes. Uuh no, you are allowed to post about that if you don't like it provided that you are civil.
> 
> Eeh no, doesn't sound hard/mad to me. Never said/tried to imply this is a "questionable deed", but whatever.
> Yeah I'm okay with art here in this thread, just not okay with some fan-art which make Jason look very "unlike" Jason and I'm allowed to voice my dissatisfaction just like you're allowed to share the art.


Ok then.
(10 chara and all that)

----------


## Sergard

The good old dramatic "mask under the mask" effect.  :Big Grin: 

Judd Winick

Judd Winick comment 13-01-2020.jpg

----------


## dietrich

I suggest that you guys make it clear if you don't want any negative discussion on this Appreciation thread.

I've noticed that unlike other sides of this forum the Batman side especially the Robins Appreciation Threads work as open discussion threads where everyone is welcome to freely discuss the character and content whatever they might think so long as it's civil.

----------


## Jackalope89



----------


## Jackalope89

Nevermind.

----------


## Sergard

> I suggest that you guys make it clear if you don't want any negative discussion on this Appreciation thread.
> 
> I've noticed that unlike other sides of this forum the Batman side especially the Robins Appreciation Threads work as open discussion threads where everyone is welcome to freely discuss the character and content whatever they might think so long as it's civil.



I don't see what's "negative" about the fanart discussion. Eto and Zaresh have both stated their opinion and were civil about it.
Not every discussion has to end with an agreement.

In my personal experience, there isn't anything "special" about the Robin appreciation threads. I've seen some ugly stuff in some of the old threads. Maybe there are "worse" appreciation threads but there are also better ones.

----------


## Sergard

> You're welcome . If I see any other JayBats fic, I'll leave a notice in your box. Or if you guys want, I can post those fics here. It's a very short list, after all. "In which Jason becomes Batman", or JayBats, in short.
> [...]


Do you maybe have more time travel stuff (that isn't on the "Time Travel and Aging / De-aging" fanfic list)? Or Jason meeting Death?

I love that Jason rescues Damian and Cass in "One day at a time" so that they aren't indoctrinated by the League/David Cain - well, at least not to the same effect as the Damian and Cass he knew.
I remember a fanfic in which Steph saved Jason from the Joker but that fic was shorter and not as complex as this one. (I don't know if I remember correctly but I think Steph went on to save Damian and Cass too.  :Smile: )

----------


## Zaresh

> Do you maybe have more time travel stuff (that isn't on the "Time Travel and Aging / De-aging" fanfic list)? Or Jason meeting Death?
> 
> I love that Jason rescues Damian and Cass in "One day at a time" so that they aren't indoctrinated by the League/David Cain - well, at least not to the same effect as the Damian and Cass he knew.
> I remember a fanfic in which Steph saved Jason from the Joker but that fic was shorter and not as complex as this one. (I don't know if I remember correctly but I think Steph went on to save Damian and Cass too. )


I don't remember reading the one with Steph, but it rings some bell. I'm going to see if I can find that one too.

I have a few with Death. I remember one short (gen) and other a bit longer (it was JayDick). I may have one new timetravel fic archived in my bookmarks that I haven't posted yet.

You know what? Give me a few hours and I'll post them, post the JayBats list, and update the old timetravel and de-aging post. First the JayBats, because we already have it done.

----------


## Sergard

> I don't remember reading the one with Steph, but it rings some bell. I'm going to see if I can find that one too.
> 
> I have a few with Death. I remember one short (gen) and other a bit longer (it was JayDick). I may have one new timetravel fic archived in my bookmarks that I haven't posted yet.
> 
> You know what? Give me a few hours and I'll post them, post the JayBats list, and update the old timetravel and de-aging post. First the JayBats, because we already have it done.


Cool. Thank you.
If you find some simple slice of life stuff about the batfam hanging out/bonding, I'd love to read that too.

----------


## Zaresh

So.... ✧＊✧＊✧ Here we go!! "*In Which Jason is Batman*", or in short: JayBats.

This is a list of fan works that feature Jason filling the cowl of the Batman. As usual, I'll mention ships, target audience and other stuff that may be of interest depending on likes and dislikes.

This one is currently ongoing. "*one day at a time*" by *@Nyame* is a fic in which a Jason that had to take on the cowl as a last resort, finds himself timetraveling back to when he emerges from the pit. It's very fluffy and kind of soft. It doesn't seem to have any conflict in the story, so it may be a bit weak depending on personal tastes. But anyways, I'm enjoying it so far (@Sergard too), and it does deal with Jason as someone who had to become Batman in the past. *Gen, teen audience target*, with perhaps a ship in the future and past Jay x Artemis.

"More to Being a Father than Having a Kid" is a long, long series by *@Romiress* based in a _what if_ of Arkham Knight. It's definitely *very mature target*: lots of *very explicit sex and some really strong depiction of violence*. *Fair warning*: it's one of those fics in where it seems that almost everyone if not everyone is gay or bi, and I know that can be offputting for some people. Jason is shipped with Joey Wilson, surprisingly. The whole work is a Bruce x Slade ship feast. But in any case, it is a fun and enjoyable read that actually touches a lot of genres. The reason to add these series in this list is because *Jason becomes the Batman in the third episode* and stays as such for a while: "*Don't Call It Revenge*."

I've already listed "*Well, When You Go*" by* @dnawhite76 and @Prubbs* before, in one of my posts. Bruce dies again, and in his will, he leaves the cowl to Jason. It's targeted *mature, because of the violence* mostly. It counts as a ghost story, or as horror, I guess, besides drama, I mean. It also is *JayTim* shipping, even if it's not strong in the shipping department.

"*feels like the world is resting on your shoulders*" by *@VioletSauce* is a *gen target*, nice short story with Jason that glances as his tenure as Batman.

I think Jason took on the cowl at some point in the Batman: Arkham Compendium series, but I'm not sure.

In case I've left out any fic that you guys want to recommend, as usual, feel free to do so and I'll update this list. These are just the ones I've found, remembered or saved in my bookmarks, and have enjoyed their reading to certain degree. Just remember to add some brief summary, warnings if they need to be addressed, and a few thoughts if you like  :Smile: .

----------


## Zaresh

Post with works that I'm going to add later in the "Family Matters" list. By the way, I need to redo that post, because I want to add a few works and I doubt I've any more space there. Separating the brighter fics from the darker into two different posts (old and new) is probably what I'm going to do.

Family bounding. I'll just add soft stuff, keeping the angst at bay.

+ I'm not listing Life's a Game here because we already did earlier. I'll add it to one of the lists later, though. It's too good to leave it out.
+ "In Case Of Emergency" by @LananiA3O is one of those works that I read, enjoyed and forgot to save. I found it the other day looking for JayBats fics, he he. Short story post BftC, with Barbara, Cass and Jason. Gen, Teen readers.
+ It's not finished, it has some heavy headcanons that fanfiction usually plays too much about characterization of certain characters (Tim, mostly) and it's slowly updated. Because of the 1st and the 3rd reason, I'm not going to list it in the main post. But @Sergard, you may enjoy this work: "Mutual Understanding" by @lowflyingfruit. Basically, the four Robins get bodyswaped and have to deal with it, learn how's being in each other's skin. It's totally gen and teen readers aimed.
+ This one is not exactly domestic, but it was bonding time as far as I recall. Sibling bonding between Tim and Jay, so gen, aimed to teen readers. It's about the all-blades. "Mystic Blades and Little Brothers" by @CloakedSparrow.
+ Past summer @GoAwayOlivia published a sequel to "Jason Todd: The Not-So-Outlaw"  that may be of your interest. It's slightly angsty, but it's straight family bonding, very comforting and has a lot of feelings in it. Title is "One Step Forward (Two Steps Back)". It's gen for teen readers. The original work has a lot of domestic stuff, btw.
+ Last of this batch, I think. This fic is pretty good, and I'm going to list it here even if it's a bit too reliant in the hurt and the angst. But it's pure family bonding in the end... It's family drama, but about bonds and feels. I don't know. Anyways, I think you may like it because it does shows some domestic stuff here and there. Tittle is: "never be the first to believe" by @ohnomydear. Gen, and even if it says that it's rated for teen audience, I think it's more mature like, because it's really emotionally heavy at places. It also has two selling points for me: it uses Ric for something actually good and useful, and it plays with the consequences of the beating in RHATO #25.

Oh, by the way: Comicfan is an author to go about JayArt, but they also have a lot of slice of life stuff, iirc. And the Arkham Compendium series has one-shots with that kind of stuff too.

Edit again: and there is a bunch of works in the original "Family Matters" post as well.

I'll see if I can find those two fics with Death I mentioned earlier, and the one about Steph that you talked about.

----------


## Eto

So can Pup Pup actually talk or is it just Bizarros imagination. Been a while since I read those issues.

----------


## Jackalope89

> So can Pup Pup actually talk or is it just Bizarro’s imagination. Been a while since I read those issues.


Originally, only in Smart Bizz's head. Recent issues? He somehow can.

----------


## Eto

> Originally, only in Smart Bizz's head. Recent issues? He somehow can.


Pup pup is so damn cute omg.

----------


## Zaresh

This is my last "fic" post today.

So those two works that I had about Jason and Death, or some version of Death, at least.
+ "Lazarus" by @Gravity_Sun, is the JayDick fic I mentioned. It's tagged explicit for a reason; it has sex, violence and heavy stuff. I remember finishing this work feeling very sad. Not Death of the Endless.
+ "What Possesses You" by @KatastrophicTodd. Another sad story, another inmortal Jason story, too. But this one is gen (no ships) and, as far as I recall, was a half-way between teen and mature targeted. Death of the Endless shows up, but her role is small. But it is a story about Jason and death.
+ The Dreamscape series also features Death of the Endles and Jason (obviously).
+ There was a fic that I remember reading, but I can't find. It was a short story, no more than maybe 2,000 words, about Jason in a diner where he meets Death again (and I think it was Death of the Endless); and they talk. It was a nice read, but apparently either I've forgotten to save it, or it actually was a chapter of some bigger fic and I'm remembering wrong.

These few are the ones I can recall, or that I remembered to add to my library; but there seems to be a dozen and half of works with both Death of the Endless and Jason Todd in AO3.

Ah, @Sergard, you may like this work too. It's pretty slice-of-life-ish, even if it's about ghosts; and it's Steph and Jason bonding. I think I didn't add it to the list about Ghost Stories yet, so I'll leave it here: "Six Senses (And None of Them Common)" by @Hinn_Raven. It's absolutely gen, and safe even for work by pre-teens if I recall.

Was the following work the one you were talking about? The one with Stephanie time travelling and saving Jason: "Oops I did it again" by @youngjusticewriter (it's a series of short one-shots)

----------

Yep, Pup Pup is cute. It could be great if they were to release some plush doll of him.

----------


## RedBird

> Originally, only in Smart Bizz's head. Recent issues? He somehow can.


If I recall correctly, I think the reason given was that 'Chairzarro' moved his digital consciousness into Pup pups inanimate form, though honestly I'm still confused about how that 'works'. 

I love pup pup, but I think I much preferred the more subtle approach of just having it be a toy in real life who is only alive in Bizarros mind, acting as an imaginary figure of guidance than an actual living toy. We'll see if it gets expanded on in future issues but I'm hoping there's some kind of justification for changing him like that, thus far it has felt pretty random and unnecessary.

----------


## Zaresh

> *If I recall correctly, I think the reason given was that 'Chairzarro' moved his digital consciousness into Pup pups inanimate form, though honestly I'm still confused about how that 'works'.* 
> 
> I love pup pup, but I think I much preferred the more subtle approach of just having it be a toy in real life who is only alive in Bizarros mind, acting as an imaginary figure of guidance than an actual living toy. We'll see if it gets expanded on in future issues but I'm hoping there's some kind of justification for changing him like that, thus far it has felt pretty random and unnecessary.


Oh, right! I totally forgot that when we were wondering about it a few week ago. They explained it in the annual, right? I think it was in the annual. Edit: no, wait, it was later than that.

----------


## RedBird

> These few are the ones I can recall, or that I remembered to add to my library; but there seems to be a dozen and half of works with both Death of the Endless and Jason Todd in AO3.


I've said it before and I'll say it again, I really really want Death of the Endless to take part and/or have a role in Jasons Death/Rebirth. I just love the idea of some of my favorite characters and franchises interacting like that, and providing a proper fleshed out story into either how Jason returned, or what happened to him on 'the other side'.

Plus there is still a chance to tell that story without any issues like retcons, just how in fact new52/rebirth Jason came back to life is still up in the air after all. Post Crisis was through the Prime wall punch, sure, but so far nothing has confirmed that that was the case for _this_ version of the character. And whilst there's nothing inherently wrong with the prime punch, it is very detached. There's no meaningful story you can write that ties Jason back to it, it's just, comic book wibbly wobbly multiverse time nonsense. Some random super dude did something over here, and now presto, Jason is back over there. It's just hollow. It gives no meaning to Jasons character. Where as with Death at the very least, you know she had to have actually known him at least once, you can easily inject some drama into that.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I've said it before and I'll say it again, I really really want Death of the Endless to take part and/or have a role in Jasons Death/Rebirth. I just love the idea of some of my favorite characters and franchises interacting like that, and providing a proper fleshed out story into either how Jason returned, or what happened to him on 'the other side'.
> 
> Plus there is still a chance to tell that story without any issues like retcons, just how in fact new52/rebirth Jason came back to life is still up in the air after all. Post Crisis was through the Prime wall punch, sure, but so far nothing has confirmed that that was the case for _this_ version of the character. And whilst there's nothing inherently wrong with the prime punch, it is very detached. There's no meaningful story you can write that ties Jason back to it, it's just, comic book wibbly wobbly multiverse time nonsense. Some random super dude did something over here, and now presto, Jason is back over there. It's just hollow. It gives no meaning to Jasons character. Where as with Death at the very least, you know she had to have actually known him at least once, you can easily inject some drama into that.


Though, wouldn't she need a reason to return him to life? Not that I'm opposed, it just feels like it would be needed for such a powerful (if very sweet) being was to suddenly send him back.

----------


## Zaresh

> Though, wouldn't she need a reason to return him to life? Not that I'm opposed, it just feels like it would be needed for such a powerful (if very sweet) being was to suddenly send him back.


It wouldn't be the first time Death has pulled some trick like that. Or Destiny, iirc. Weren't there two immortal characters in The Sandman?

Also, making Jason the link of the Batverse* to the Vertigoverse* side of the DCU could work, with his current background (way better than Bruce with John or any other character). It's not like the Dreaming is disconnected from the DCU, to begin with (specially nowadays).

* you know what I mean, right?

----------


## RedBird

> It wouldn't be the first time Death has pull some trick like that. Or Destiny, iirc. Weren't there two inmortal characters in The Sandman?
> 
> Also, *making Jason the link of the Batverse* to the Vertigoverse* side of the DCU could work*, with his current background (way better than Bruce with John or asny other character). It's not like the Dreaming is disconnected from the DCU, to begin with (specially nowadays).
> 
> * you know what I mean, right?


I know exactly what you mean, cause that is exactly what I really hope for. Jason being a DC bat character linking to the Sandman 'vertigoverse' in a way that weirdly makes sense considering the unique circumstances of his rebirth, plus the newfound mystical powers he possesses/wields.




> Though, wouldn't she need a reason to return him to life? Not that I'm opposed, it just feels like it would be needed for such a powerful (if very sweet) being was to suddenly send him back.


Like Zaresh said, it wouldn't be the first time the Endless characters have done things they shouldn't have, or usually wouldn't do. Also it doesn't even have to be by Deaths own will that Jason returns, maybe it could be something within the 'Vertigoverse' that leaves her just as baffled, but forces her hand, where upon she just carries out the task.

----------


## Jackalope89

Fair points. Admittedly not that familiar with Vertigo, but if it works, it works.

----------


## Sergard

> Oh, right! I totally forgot that when we were wondering about it a few week ago. They explained it in the annual, right? I think it was in the annual. Edit: no, wait, it was later than that.


#RH:O #39 - I looked it up. I had totally forgotten about it. I wonder why. The chairzarro story makes sense and is not complicated. There's even a Pinocchio reference ("the plushie who became a real boy.") which is especially funny because the third annual was full of Wizard of Oz references.
On the other hand, I still know the only shortly mentioned information that Cloud9 is named Clara and that she's from Detroit. (I'm surprised that Devour knows her real name.)

@Zaresh, thank you for all the fanfic recommendations. I'll include the links to your posts in the fanfic overview.





> I know exactly what you mean, cause that is exactly what I really hope for. Jason being a DC bat character linking to the Sandman 'vertigoverse' in a way that weirdly makes sense considering the unique circumstances of his rebirth, plus the newfound mystical powers he possesses/wields.


@RedBird: Do you have some Sandman universe recommendations? The universe sounds interesting but I don't know where to start and what titles are good.



On another topic, I'm a little perplexed that there aren't any news on the Robin 80th Anniversary comic. I would have at least expected some shop exclusive variants. But so far I haven't seen any.

----------


## Zaresh

> #RH:O #39 - I looked it up. I had totally forgotten about it. I wonder why. The chairzarro story makes sense and is not complicated. There's even a Pinocchio reference ("the plushie who became a real boy.") which is especially funny because the third annual was full of Wizard of Oz references.
> On the other hand, I still know the only shortly mentioned information that Cloud9 is named Clara and that she's from Detroit. (I'm surprised that Devour knows her real name.)
> 
> @Zaresh, thank you for all the fanfic recommendations. I'll include the links to your posts in the fanfic overview.
> 
> [...]
> 
> On another topic, I'm a little perplexed that there aren't any news on the Robin 80th Anniversary comic. I would have at least expected some shop exclusive variants. But so far I haven't seen any.


You're welcome  :Cool: 
And thanks for looking up when the explanation for pup pup was.

I've seen no new news for that Robin special either.

----------


## Sergard

> You're welcome 
> And thanks for looking up when the explanation for pup pup was.
> 
> I've seen no new news for that Robin special either.


Fortunately, there weren't that many issues to check.
I hope we'll see more of Pup Pup in the future.
I wonder if Chairzarro-Pup Pup is as smart as Smartzarro was.
If yes, there's a potential for some fun dialogs between Babe in Arms and Pup Pup - the two cutest members of the Outlaws having a scientific debate sounds hilarious.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Event Leviathan: Checkmate announced




> Green Arrow, The Question, Lois Lane and Talia Al Ghul are the last line of defense against Leviathan, *but there’s a secret hero working from the shadows that could mean the difference between victory or defeat for this new version of Checkmate.* Who is it? Find out when the debut issue of Event Leviathan: Checkmate hits comic book retailers and participating digital stores on Wednesday, April 22, 2020.


https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2020/0...ion-this-april

Let's hope Jason is not involved.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Event Leviathan: Checkmate announced
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2020/0...ion-this-april
> 
> Let's hope Jason is not involved.


Sadly, it seems Jason is involved. Someone over in the Superman forums posted a snippet from an interview saying that Bendis was going to use Jason.

----------


## Sergard

"Secret hero" sounds more like a character that's either completely new or hasn't been used in Event Leviathan so far.

----------


## Jackalope89

> "Secret hero" sounds more like a character that's either completely new or hasn't been used in Event Leviathan so far.


Yeah, not sure if that is a reference to our boy Todd, but I plan on ignoring Bendis anyway. Chances are its going to be in stark contrast to whatever Lobdell is writing.

----------


## Zaresh

> Sadly, it seems Jason is involved. Someone over in the Superman forums posted a snippet from an interview saying that Bendis was going to use Jason.


I'm not surprised. At least he seems to get Jason relatively right. "Secret hero" could mean that no one thinks he's one of the good guys too, so it can be Jason. Could be a resurrected Roy too. I mean... doesn't post crisis Roy have history with Checkmate?

I guess I was wrong and Bendis does mean to give Jason a main role in the epilogue.

----------


## Eto

> Sadly, it seems Jason is involved. Someone over in the Superman forums posted a snippet from an interview saying that Bendis was going to use Jason.


Aargh nooo, I don’t want him to write Jason.

----------


## Eto

Thanks @Sergard so its Rhato #39 huh all right.

----------


## Sergard

> Sadly, it seems Jason is involved. Someone over in the Superman forums posted a snippet from an interview saying that Bendis was going to use Jason.


Can you remember the snippet?

From last year I can remember two interviews with Bendis that mentioned Jason:

Brian Michael Bendis Talks Event Leviathan's Big Reveal and Future




> *You were mentioning fallout and you had planted a lot of red herrings in this story with Jason Todd, Kate Spencer and Talia al Ghul. Are we going to see fallout with them?*
> 
> Yep! Yeah, any character that was touched by this story, there's going to be fallout from. This mystery is solved but, past the mystery, a lot has happened. They were semi-successful in their quest that Leviathan has arrived and is now a power in the DC Universe and that comes with a major shift in how everyone's doing business; so that's number one.
> 
> Everyone also has to deal with the fact that Leviathan set some of them up, like, why does the Red Hood get set up for shit like this? And that does eat at the character but also lets the character know "You have a job here. You have to take care of Leviathan because they are coming after you and they've made that very clear and they're doing the opposite of what you want in the world."
> 
> As far as Jason goes, I will say I did the most research of all the characters on Jason because I wanted the red herring to be honest and, at the same time, respectful to the character and have the character walk away as almost one of the big heroes of the story. If you really look at it, he kind of walks away the most unscathed and it certainly points Jason in the direction of what he has to do next.



EXCLUSIVE: Bendis & Maleevs Leviathan Dawn Will Change the DC Universe




> [...]
> 
> So for people who read Event Leviathan and were like, "I would like another issue of this!" here comes another double-sized epilogue/prologue. And for people who missed the event but are all in on whatever this new thing this, here we go. And this is going to be kind of be what the format is for the Leviathan Saga moving forward. There's going to be specials and miniseries that connect to a larger story as it goes and fallout in the books themselves -- not just the ones I'm writing -- to other books with any character that showed up in Event Leviathan like Batgirl. The fallout will be felt in their books too.
> 
> [...]
> *You had mentioned Batgirl, and there was Jason Todd. So are we going to revisit them in Leviathan Dawn?*
> 
> Yes, 100%. This hit everybody on different levels. Some it hit very personally, some it hit thematically, like, Leviathan was against their principals on every level that something has to be done and a lot of people feel like Leviathan happened on their watch, like, "We're supposed to be watching for this and it literally happened right from under us."


The interviews of last year also mention Barbara and Damian.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Can you remember the snippet?
> 
> From last year I can remember two interviews with Bendis that mentioned Jason:
> 
> Brian Michael Bendis Talks Event Leviathan's Big Reveal and Future
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It was along those lines, but it was a few weeks back.

----------


## Sergard

> I'm not surprised. At least he seems to get Jason relatively right. "Secret hero" could mean that no one thinks he's one of the good guys too, so it can be Jason. Could be a resurrected Roy too. I mean... doesn't post crisis Roy have history with Checkmate?
> 
> I guess I was wrong and Bendis does mean to give Jason a main role in the epilogue.


Bendis would have to do a lot of explaining if he wants to use Roy. And although I'd like Roy back, I don't want a resurrection story that only benefits Roy while every other HiC victim is still dead. There are so many great characters that were killed by King and deserve another chance.

... well, clone Roy could work.

I'll give Leviathan Dawn a try and if I like it, I'll continue with Leviathan: Checkmate. Green Arrow, The Question, Lois Lane and Talia Al Ghul sounds like a strange combination but maybe it will work. And I love Maleev's art style.

----------


## Zaresh

> Bendis would have to do a lot of explaining if he wants to use Roy. And although I'd like Roy back, I don't want a resurrection story that only benefits Roy while every other HiC victim is still dead. There are so many great characters that were killed by King and deserve another chance.
> 
> ... well, clone Roy could work.
> 
> I'll give Leviathan Dawn a try and if I like it, I'll continue with Leviathan: Checkmate. Green Arrow, The Question, Lois Lane and Talia Al Ghul sounds like a strange combination but maybe it will work. And I love Maleev's art style.


Maleev's art is pretty, yep. I still keep some of his Daredevil art saved somewhere in my phone.

I don't know. I'm sure most of the victims of HiC are going to come back from death at some point. Maybe thanks to a reboot, maybe because some convoluted plot, maybe thanks to some good story; but they'll be back somehow. Actually, it's Wally the one that worries me, because character murdering like that is hard to undo; Flash Forward is turning pretty nicely. Perhaps that will help.

Anyways, Clone Roy. That could be funny, recycling a gimmick that JY used first, even if it's differently. If they give him all his memories, it's virtually resurrecting him. If they don't, then, it means that we lose him as an ally and friend of Jason. Nowadays, it's not like many writers use cloning as a plot tool a lot, so that's an up. But I don't know why someone would want to clone Roy, unless it's for making him a mole or because they want to use him against Oliver, the Titans, etc.

----------


## Sergard

I fear that most HiC victims won't return because DC doesn't "need" them and isn't interested in pushing them, especially since 5G is coming (Is 5G official or still a rumor?).
My hope that Jason and Eddie will meet again is waning.

----------


## Godlike13

You guys might want to check out the Wally West appreciation thread.

----------


## Jackalope89

> You guys might want to check out the Wally West appreciation thread.


I did. Was not expecting that, to be honest. Alas, it really doesn't have a direct connection to the thread, but what was there, was a good read.

----------


## Restingvoice

Jason's memory of Alfred, Batman Pennyworth RIP #1
aHR0cDovL3d3dy5uZXdzYXJhbWEuY29tL2ltYWdlcy9pLzAwMC8yNzMvNDY3L29yaWdpbmFsL1Blbm55d29ydGhfMTlfY29s.jpg

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Jason looks a _lot_ like Jensen Ackles on that page.

----------


## Restingvoice

By the way, I think that's the same safe house that Tomasi/Gleason made for him in Batman and Robin where he said hello to his pillow before being attacked by Damian. The same ceiling to floor windows, circular wall, and his weapon collection is on the frame in the wall that divides the living room and bedroom, with storage underneath.

That red sword on the frame is the one Damian used to attack him. 

The layout and content's a bit different, or this is the other side where the living room is, while behind the wall is his bed.

----------


## Aahz

> Jason's memory of Alfred, Batman Pennyworth RIP #1
> aHR0cDovL3d3dy5uZXdzYXJhbWEuY29tL2ltYWdlcy9pLzAwMC8yNzMvNDY3L29yaWdpbmFsL1Blbm55d29ydGhfMTlfY29s.jpg


Looks like the Pistols from Arkham Knight.

----------


## Zaresh

> By the way, I think that's the same safe house that Tomasi/Gleason made for him in Batman and Robin where he said hello to his pillow before being attacked by Damian. The same ceiling to floor windows, circular wall, and his weapon collection is on the frame in the wall that divides the living room and bedroom, with storage underneath.
> 
> That red sword on the frame is the one Damian used to attack him. 
> 
> The layout and content's a bit different, or this is the other side where the living room is, while behind the wall is his bed.


It's probably meant to be the same house, yeah. But when you don't have the sketches with the schematics from the previous artist, you can always give it a little personal touch. It's like Clint's apartment and building in _Hawkeye_, for example (even if we do have some schematics). You just adapt those to fit your story :3. Or, well, the Wayne manor, here in DC. We know certain spaces, but not the full layout of the building; so artists have plenty of freedom.

Nice touch that sword XD. I guess Jason got that back in place of his helmet.
Lots of books in the background, btw. That's nice.

----------


## Sergard

> By the way, I think that's the same safe house that Tomasi/Gleason made for him in Batman and Robin where he said hello to his pillow before being attacked by Damian. The same ceiling to floor windows, circular wall, and his weapon collection is on the frame in the wall that divides the living room and bedroom, with storage underneath.
> 
> That red sword on the frame is the one Damian used to attack him. 
> 
> The layout and content's a bit different, or this is the other side where the living room is, while behind the wall is his bed.


I didn't realize that Damian took one of Jason's swords but you are right.
The guns in the Batman: Pennyworth R.I.P preview look like the ones on the wall in Batman and Robin #11 below the swords.

From Batman and Robin #11:

----------


## AmiMizuno

So Jason,Artemis and Buzarro are mentors to super villains? Interesting. I figured they wouldn’t want kids to follow them or be on the side of evil

----------


## Zaresh

> So Jason,Artemis and Buzarro are mentors to super villains? Interesting. I figured they wouldn’t want kids to follow them or be on the side of evil


Jason has said (twice already) that he's just teaching them whatever he can in order to ensure that they avoid a death like the one he had. And he has said that that's the only reason why he accepted Luthor's offer. I doubt he's actually teaching them to be "supervillains"; he's teaching them to basically survive.

----------


## Sergard

For anyone interested: Here's the whole first look on Batman: Pennyworth R.I.P.
The Jason part is drawn by Marcio Takara. Colorists for the issue are Adriano Lucas, Rex Lokus and Nathan Fairbairn. I'm only familiar with Rex Lokus and the one page posted above by Restingvoice looks like it's colored by him.

----------


## Zaresh

> For anyone interested: Here's the whole first look on Batman: Pennyworth R.I.P.
> The Jason part is drawn by Marcio Takara. Colorists for the issue are Adriano Lucas, Rex Lokus and Nathan Fairbairn. I'm only familiar with Rex Lokus and the one page posted above by Restingvoice looks like it's colored by him.


Marcio Takara. That's sweet. This is a close up, in his insta, of one of those panels, btw: https://www.instagram.com/p/B6mGBJ9n...on_share_sheet

----------


## Sergard

> Marcio Takara. That's sweet. This is a close up, in his insta, of one of those panels, btw: https://www.instagram.com/p/B6mGBJ9n...on_share_sheet


It's interesting to compare Takara's lines with the final colored version. Jason has a nice little smile in the original version but in the colored panel it feels like the smile has nearly vanished.

----------


## Zaresh

> It's interesting to compare Takara's lines with the final colored version. Jason has a nice little smile in the original version but in the colored panel it feels like the smile has nearly vanished.


It's because of the shadow of the lip, I guess. It may be easier to see in the HQ image / physical copy when they release this issue.

----------


## Sergard

> It's because of the shadow of the lip, I guess. It may be easier to see in the HQ image / physical copy when they release this issue.


I hope so. I like Jason's little Mona Lisa smile  :Wink: 
And I'm fascinated by Takara's lines. It's a good combination of strong and fine lines. There is some "rough edge" to it but the lines are also precise and convey strong emotions.
Just judging by the one panel on Instagram I'd say that Jason feels relaxed, even happy. But he also looks a little tired around the eyes. The arched eyebrow is a nice touch and is probably a response to something that Alfred has done or said.

----------


## Jackalope89



----------


## Zaresh

> I hope so. I like Jason's little Mona Lisa smile 
> And I'm fascinated by Takara's lines. It's a good combination of strong and fine lines. There is some "rough edge" to it but the lines are also precise and convey strong emotions.
> Just judging by the one panel on Instagram I'd say that Jason feels relaxed, even happy. But he also looks a little tired around the eyes. The arched eyebrow is a nice touch and is probably a response to something that Alfred has done or said.


I like his art a lot. I was following him a little bit before the faked date issue in RHATO (before the solicit was released), and was curiously looking forward to it. He did put some pretty nice art then. His style has a nice blending that's right my alley: it's soft (not that clean, but still clean, I mean... Fluid? I don't know how to put it in words Loosed maybe?), dynamic (even if it feels relaxed) and very expressive. It's not perfect, but that's also part of its charm for me. So now I'm looking forward to see what he does here, too.

----------


## Sergard

> 


I hope Artemis will get her axe back soon. I miss Mistress.






> I like his art a lot. I was following him a little bit before the faked date issue in RHATO (before the solicit was released), and was curiously looking forward to it. He did put some pretty nice art then. His style has a nice blending that's right my alley: it's soft (not that clean, but still clean, I mean... Fluid? I don't know how to put it in words Loosed maybe?), dynamic (even if it feels relaxed) and very expressive. It's not perfect, but that's also part of its charm for me. So now I'm looking forward to see what he does here, too.


Oh, I had forgotten that Takara drew RHatO #19. Nice issue and beautiful Artemis.

----------


## Sergard

Some "design" from Unkillables ... I have no idea what it's supposed to be.

_By Far the most awesome thing i designed in #Dceased #Unkillables.  Anyone know what it does?_

Karl Mostert




I also found a fanart with Jason's Three Jokers design on twitter.

Tank




And a fanart of Jason with white streak.

Tank

----------


## Sergard

Sam (art by Roozu)



Paz



dark_winged049

----------


## Sergard

laopendragon



Symeona M. Kanellou




Unmoving

----------


## Restingvoice

> Symeona M. Kanellou


lol I checked the link and the message is from Scarecrow XD

----------


## Sergard

> lol I checked the link and the message is from Scarecrow XD


Yeah, that made me laugh too.  :Big Grin: 

Jason Fabok

_big #batman #Threejokers news coming soon... stay tuned._

jason fabok 13-01-2020.jpg


I hope "soon" really means soon.  :Frown:

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say that issue 1 will be on April 2020's solicits, today.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Nope, nothing about Three Jokers.

RED HOOD: OUTLAW #45
written by SCOTT LOBDELL
art and cover by PAOLO PANTALENA
variant cover by PHILIP TAN
Red Hood, Artemis, and Bizarro have battled many threats together...but they’ve never faced a veritable army of the damned! Which is what is happening during the protests on the streets of Qurac as the Untitled prepare to strike at the heart of humanity! At the same time Artemis has to go sword-to-word with Essence. As the enemy gathers its forces, it is clear the Dark Trinity needs to expand
its roster—and fast!
ON SALE 04.22.20
$3.99 US | 32 PAGES
FC | DC
This issue will ship with two covers.
Please see the order form for details.



And The Unkillables #3 solicit

DCEASED: UNKILLABLES #3
written by TOM TAYLOR
art by KARL MOSTERT and
TREVOR SCOTT
cover by HOWARD PORTER
card stock variant cover by FRANCESCO MATTINA
card stock movie homage variant cover by TASIA M.S.
It’s the epic finale of the next chapter in the DCeased saga as heroes and villains collide with one epic purpose: to escape the coming of the infected population of Gotham City and a monstrous Wonder Woman! It’s time to ride the fury road one final time…to survival!
ON SALE 04.15.20
$4.99 US | 3 OF 3 | 48 PAGES
CARD STOCK VARIANT COVERS EACH $5.99 US
FC | DC
This issue will ship with three covers.
Please see the order form for details.

----------


## Sergard

> Nope, nothing about Three Jokers.
> 
> RED HOOD: OUTLAW #45
> written by SCOTT LOBDELL
> art and cover by PAOLO PANTALENA
> variant cover by PHILIP TAN
> Red Hood, Artemis, and Bizarro have battled many threats together...but theyve never faced a veritable army of the damned! Which is what is happening during the protests on the streets of Qurac as the Untitled prepare to strike at the heart of humanity! At the same time Artemis has to go sword-to-word with Essence. As the enemy gathers its forces, it is clear the Dark Trinity needs to expand
> its rosterand fast!
> ON SALE 04.22.20
> ...


Oh man ... Fabok's "soon" is definitely not soon enough.

RH:O #45 sounds good.
Dark Trinity fighting together - check
army of the damned - check
Jason in Qurac - interesting
Untitled - check
Essence - check
Sword-to-sword fight .... I would have preferred axe-to-sword. I hope Mistress will be addressed soon.
I like Essence but I don't like her antagonizing Jason. But looking at the cover, she seems to be possessed or at least negatively influenced by something.

The Unkillables #3 variant cover looks so adorably stupid. I love it.

----------


## Zaresh

> Some "design" from Unkillables ... I have no idea what it's supposed to be.
> 
> _By Far the most awesome thing i designed in #Dceased #Unkillables.  Anyone know what it does?_
> 
> Karl Mostert


The first sketch? It's a boar with knives around the nose, reins and a saddlebag, I think.

Edit: or maybe not. Honestly, I can't say if it's a boar at all.

----------


## Zaresh

> Oh man ... Fabok's "soon" is definitely not soon enough.
> 
> RH:O #45 sounds good.
> Dark Trinity fighting together - check
> army of the damned - check
> Jason in Qurac - interesting
> Untitled - check
> Essence - check
> Sword-to-sword fight .... I would have preferred axe-to-sword. I hope Mistress will be addressed soon.
> ...


It looks a bit better than the original poster that it's based on (one of the posters for Suicide Squad). And that poster looked nice already (and had the same chaotic and colourful style).

----------


## Sergard

> The first sketch? It's a boar with knives around the nose, reins and a saddlebag, I think.
> 
> Edit: or maybe not. Honestly, I can't say if it's a boar at all.


Haha. Someone in the comments guessed warthog and someone else saddle. 
I'm definitely going to watch out for the design in Unkillables.





> It looks a bit better than the original poster that it's based on (one of the posters for Suicide Squad). And that poster looked nice already (and had the same chaotic and colourful style).


You mean this cover, right? Deadshot didn't even have to change position.

----------


## Zaresh

> Haha. Someone in the comments guessed warthog and someone else saddle. 
> I'm definitely going to watch out for the design in Unkillables.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean this cover, right? Deadshot didn't even have to change position.


Yeeep, I was thinking about that one.

----------


## Sergard

> 


Who are the four people in the foreground? I guess the lady in red is Lady Shiva?

----------


## Jackalope89

Shiva or Talia, could go either way on that.

Redhead I assume is Roy. The others, I don't know.

----------


## Restingvoice

Red is more Shiva's color. She wears red and black tights in Young Justice and Superman/Batman Public Enemies, red Chinese vest in Arkham Origin, and what's especially similar is the tight metallic red suit tied with belts she wears in Hush. She also had a ponytail with reddish-brown hair then.

----------


## Sergard

Judd Winick

_"I can confirm that Ill be writing a new, short, JASON TODD/RED HOOD story for this special anniversary issue."_ 

I wasn't sure if his story was going to be a Robin Jason or Red Hood Jason story. I have my answer now.


Jason Fabok (reply to a question if Three Jokers is in continuity.)

_"the problem with continuity (my two cents) is that it stifles you as a storyteller...and then is meaningless 2 months later when everything changes.  All the best comics are self contained (DKR, Killing Joke).  Our book is self contained, yet works in the greater DC continuity."_

----------


## Rise

Winick is writing a new Red Hood story? I guess Robin anniversary is a must have to me, then.

And I definitely agree with Fabok. My favourite stories from DC are the ones that are self contained.

----------


## Sergard

For anybody interested: Here is the complete April 2020 solicitations list.
For example, Joker and Catwoman will have an 80TH ANNIVERSARY issue. 

And since it hasn't been posted before, here's the RH:O #45 variant by Philip Tan: Jason and a gargoyle, classic.  :Wink:

----------


## Sergard

Jason Fabok's reply to the question "When can we expect Three Jokers to launch?":

_"this year. Soon. We had a date...then changed it.  But we feel we actually have a better release schedule now where we can keep a very high momentum and get you the books fast.  For those on the ride, it'll be something we hope will be special. Like buying comics as a kid."_

Also from the comment section: There'll probably be no variant covers. (source)

_"Dont think there will be variant artists.  I dont want a gimmick to sell these books like 10000 variants.  Just want me, and my work to stand alone and do the selling because Im confident in it and the story.  But If we did....Id want Brain Bolland to do a variant."_

Fabok's comments are interesting. He even states at one point that other people at DC may want variants but they've decided to head on their own path.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

The more Fabok talks, the more I'm convinced that Three Jokers will be meaningless in the long run.

----------


## Zaresh

> Jason Fabok's reply to the question "When can we expect Three Jokers to launch?":
> 
> _"this year. Soon. We had a date...then changed it.  But we feel we actually have a better release schedule now where we can keep a very high momentum and get you the books fast.  For those on the ride, it'll be something we hope will be special. Like buying comics as a kid."_
> 
> Also from the comment section: There'll probably be no variant covers. (source)
> 
> _"Dont think there will be variant artists.  I dont want a gimmick to sell these books like 10000 variants.  Just want me, and my work to stand alone and do the selling because Im confident in it and the story.  But If we did....Id want Brain Bolland to do a variant."_
> 
> Fabok's comments are interesting. He even states at one point that other people at DC may want variants but they've decided to head on their own path.


I don't know about Johns, but at this point, it seems like Fabok is very, very invested in this book. That's cool, however if it ends being a book that I'll enjoy or not.




> The more Fabok talks, the more I'm convinced that Three Jokers will be meaningless in the long run.


No matter if it ends being in continuity or not, if the book is good (and respectful to the characters enough to be accepted by fans), it will end in canon, eventually. Or affecting it. I always remember, in case like this, that The Killing Joke wasn't in continuity (I think it wasn't). And Miller's TDKR definitely affected the whole franchise, even if it isn't in cont. I'm not saying that this book is going to impact the Batman franchise like those two, but lesser works had done that to some degree, too.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Lesser works such as?

TKJ and DKR mark a turning point not just for Batman but for comic books in general, so those are kind of poor examples. And Johns' track record in the past few years has been pretty poor with the only book to have a somewhat lasting impact being Rebirth (and even then, most of it was thrown away by King, Bendis, and Snyder) so the odds aren't on their favor.

----------


## Zaresh

> Lesser works such as?
> 
> TKJ and DKR mark a turning point not just for Batman but for comic books in general, so those are kind of poor examples. And Johns' track record in the past few years has been pretty poor with the only book to have a somewhat lasting impact being Rebirth (and even then, most of it was thrown away by King, Bendis, and Snyder) so the odds aren't on their favor.


I was thinking of some elseworlds that tend to, I don't know, bleed to mainline works? Like that what if eartth in Marvel (It's Marvel in the 90's which it's kind of an stranger for me, so I'm not sure about names), the one with the May Parker Spidergirl, that I would say it's affecting Earth 616, even if it's because multiverse travelling. Or the "Old Man" whole mini-franchise, that, I know, it's an alternate future, but still, seems to have had some impact in the main MU. Those aren't big works, like TKJ or TDKR, but still left some mark.

To be honest, I'm not saying that 3 Jokers is going to impact the main DCU, but it could: every writer can have his hists (and lows), you cannot never say (after all, writing isn't a science, and art depends of a lot of factors). I'm not familiar enough with Johns work, but he seems to have a few works that people appreciates and remember. Maybe this one will be one like those, or maybe not.

What I'm saying is... Let's wait.

----------


## Sergard

> The more Fabok talks, the more I'm convinced that Three Jokers will be meaningless in the long run.


Meaningless in what sense? That Three Jokers won't be mentioned in RHatO?



Marcio Takara






> [...]
> Was the following work the one you were talking about? The one with Stephanie time travelling and saving Jason: "Oops I did it again" by @youngjusticewriter (it's a series of short one-shots)
> [...]


Yes, thank you. And thank you again for your other recommendations. "What Possesses You" literally made me cry and "Six Senses (And None of Them Common)" made me laugh.  :Big Grin:

----------


## Zaresh

> Yes, thank you. And thank you again for your other recommendations. "What Possesses You" literally made me cry and "Six Senses (And None of Them Common)" made me laugh.


You're welcome  :Smile: . I'm trying to make some time to reorganize those two post. I'll notify here when I'm done, reposting the links.

----------


## Sergard

> You're welcome. I'm trying to make some time to reorganize those two post. I'll notify here when I'm done, reposting the links.


Okay. 
I also still have to edit the OP (adding some information) but I can't find the time.

Instead I found some nice fanarts.

cawfee.doods



jmp_feisty



*******_art

----------


## Eto

[QUOTE=Sergard;4790360]Meaningless in what sense? That Three Jokers won't be mentioned in RHatO?



I think this is what he means, but also the fact it won't have an impact on Jason's future/lore? Not sure though.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Meaningless in what sense? That Three Jokers won't be mentioned in RHatO?


Meaningless in the sense it will be a story with no real impact over Jason's characterization and will remain as a footnote at best.

----------


## Darkspellmaster

> Shiva or Talia, could go either way on that.
> 
> Redhead I assume is Roy. The others, I don't know.


Not sure, but is the black haired girl a vampire? 

Honestly I wish Jason had more of a cast of characters for him to interact. Like Dick, Tim or Damian, he needs friends. Artemis and Bizarro are a good start. But he needs more, I guess other friends who may not be heroes.

----------


## Sergard

> Not sure, but is the black haired girl a vampire? 
> 
> Honestly I wish Jason had more of a cast of characters for him to interact. Like Dick, Tim or Damian, he needs friends. Artemis and Bizarro are a good start. But he needs more, I guess other friends who may not be heroes.


A vampire in a zombie story could be interesting.  :Wink: 

Dick, Tim and Damian have friends who are not heroes?

But I agree. Lobdell should bring Crux back. Crux was badass. And Gabby. And hopefully Jason and Essence will be on good terms again at the end of the upcoming story arc.
I know that Jason has apparently moved to New York but I hope that the Su sisters will still pay him a visit from time to time.
It will also be interesting to see how Jason and his cousin Faye will interact in the future (after Jason has finally learned that she's his cousin).

And god, I wish DC would bring Eddie Bloomberg/Red Devil back into Jason's life.

----------


## Zaresh

> A vampire in a zombie story could be interesting. 
> 
> Dick, Tim and Damian have friends who are not heroes?
> 
> But I agree. Lobdell should bring Crux back. Crux was badass. And Gabby. And hopefully Jason and Essence will be on good terms again at the end of the upcoming story arc.
> I know that Jason has apparently moved to New York but I hope that the Su sisters will still pay him a visit from time to time.
> It will also be interesting to see how Jason and his cousin Faye will interact in the future (after Jason has finally learned that she's his cousin).
> 
> And god, I wish DC would bring Eddie Bloomberg/Red Devil back into Jason's life.


Tim, Dick and Damian had, once upon a time, the three of them.

I don't know why, but I think the most likely character to come back soon, besides Essence and Isabel, is that FBI agent that we saw in the first solo arc.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Tim, Dick and Damian had, once upon a time, the three of them.
> 
> I don't know why, but I think the most likely character to come back soon, besides Essence and Isabel, is that FBI agent that we saw in the first solo arc.


Your forgot someone!

----------


## Zaresh

> Your forgot someone!


Right.

I don't think that rocky friend is going to show up in the actual story xddd. But that cover was pretty cool. Stone cool.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Meaningless in the sense it will be a story with no real impact over Jason's characterization and will remain as a footnote at best.


That would depend on the Red Hood series writer. The Three Jokers can do whatever they want, but it's up to Red Hood series to follow up on that.

----------


## Sergard

> Tim, Dick and Damian had, once upon a time, the three of them.
> 
> I don't know why, but I think the most likely character to come back soon, besides Essence and Isabel, is that FBI agent that we saw in the first solo arc.


Once upon a time there was a whole bat"family".  :Wink: 

I'd like to see Melissa Mitchell again too. Her storyline was never completed. And her and Jason working together on a case could be interesting.

----------


## kaimaciel

Vhyrel's commission for me  :Smile: 

tumblr_850932906e58fb87aae40086aafa0cef_2eed6540_500.jpg

----------


## Zaresh

> Vhyrel's commission for me 
> 
> tumblr_850932906e58fb87aae40086aafa0cef_2eed6540_500.jpg


Cool drawing :3.

Edit: Comichron final sales for December* are out, and... Red Hood isn't there (or at least I cannot find it). So I guess we have to wait for January's sales to know how figures are going for the book.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Cool drawing :3.
> 
> Edit: Comichron final sales for Devember are out, and... Red Hood isn't there (or at least I cannot find it). So I guess we have to wait for January's sales to know how figures are going for the book.


I can't find it either

----------


## Sergard

> Vhyrel's commission for me 
> 
> tumblr_850932906e58fb87aae40086aafa0cef_2eed6540_500.jpg



Nice. Did you have any specifications like the white streak and the mask or did you just request a Jason Todd artwork?




> Cool drawing :3.
> 
> Edit: Comichron final sales for December* are out, and... Red Hood isn't there (or at least I cannot find it). So I guess we have to wait for January's sales to know how figures are going for the book.


Yeah, no January 1st release is included.

I found some nice fanarts on Instagram. Jason interacting with Kara and Babs.


Gabriel Larragan Villalobos




cadhla182

----------


## kaimaciel

> Nice. Did you have any specifications like the white streak and the mask or did you just request a Jason Todd artwork?


I just asked for a Red Hood with the domino mask, they did the rest. I think their commissions are still open if anyone is interested, I got this one for 6$.

----------


## Tomar8989

[QUOTE=kaimaciel;4794424] I just read issue 42 and all I gotta say is Artemis and Jason need to stop lying about their feelings and just be honest for each other 😂 overall good issue.

----------


## Katana500

Red Hood and Artemis are so cute in the newest issue!

The idea of them together has definitely grown on me!

----------


## Tomar8989

> Red Hood and Artemis are so cute in the newest issue!
> 
> The idea of them together has definitely grown on me!


It really has and they are a very realistic couple also I like how at the end they knew they were lieing about their true feelings and its very obvious that Jason wants to pursue something further. At the beginning when I read the last page I was like what in the world is going on and then once I read the end and found out that they were lying about their feelings and it really did have a connection it made this issue all the more enjoyable.

----------


## Sergard

DC First Look: DCEASED: UNKILLABLES #1

The preview only shows Deathstroke but it's still nice. I'm really looking forward to Unkillables.

----------


## Robanker

> I just read issue 42 and all I gotta say is Artemis and Jason need to stop lying about their feelings and just be honest for each other  overall good issue.


It read to me more like Lobdell admitting it's probably going to happen but he doesn't really want to write about them, so instead of just shutting it down, he's setting it aside to be something he ends on or just leaves for the next writer to handle. Honestly? Pretty nice of him considering I've heard he doesn't really ship the two.

I appreciate Jason's comments on Wally. It was a good issue. I've jumped back onboard once the Dark Trinity returned and minor complaints aside (why is Artemis shorter than Jason?!) it's been good to have Jason, Artemis and Bizarro back in my pull list.

----------


## Tomar8989

> It read to me more like Lobdell admitting it's probably going to happen but he doesn't really want to write about them, so instead of just shutting it down, he's setting it aside to be something he ends on or just leaves for the next writer to handle. Honestly? Pretty nice of him considering I've heard he doesn't really ship the two.
> 
> I appreciate Jason's comments on Wally. It was a good issue. I've jumped back onboard once the Dark Trinity returned and minor complaints aside (why is Artemis shorter than Jason?!) it's been good to have Jason, Artemis and Bizarro back in my pull list.


I sort of feel the same however I do think that he will explore the relationship further in later issues because how could he not? The chemistry that they have is to undeniable for it to be put off to the side entirely however I do understand that he wants to write a whole story and not a romance lol. But I think that he changed his mind on the pairing due to the editorial staff and maybe he just he grew to love  it like some of the fan base. I really liked his writing on this issue because it really showed so much between the two. But my hunch is that he won't drop the ball with this.

----------


## Tomar8989

I don't know why she is shorter than Jason, maybe the artist chose to make her shorter so she didn't appear to be as dominant as she was before? Perhaps aesthetically it looks better as a couple although I disagree. Did the other dimension alter her powers and her height? Find out on the next episode of Dragon Ball Z lol

----------


## Zaresh

> I don't know why she is shorter than Jason, maybe the artist chose to make her shorter so she didn't appear to be as dominant as she was before? Perhaps aesthetically it looks better as a couple although I disagree. Did the other dimension alter her powers and her height? Find out on the next episode of Dragon Ball Z lol


I think that every artist draws almost every character as they feel like, to some degree. Sometimes, they don't even stick to a costume design at all (look at current Tim Drake mess, for example). I think it all depends on how much freedom they have from editors and editorial lines. In this case, the penciler probably felt that Artemis was slighly shorter than Jason. Instead of being as tall as him, and definitely leaner than she was before.

----------


## Tomar8989

> I think that every artist draws almost every character as they feel like, to some degree. Sometimes, they don't even stick to a costume design at all (look at current Tim Drake mess, for example). I think it all depends on how much freedom they have from editors and editorial lines. In this case, the penciler probably felt that Artemis was slighly shorter than Jason. Instead of being as tall as him, and definitely leaner than she was before.


I agree and did you read the chapter? If so what is your opinion of it. Have not really heard anyone really touch on it today

----------


## Zaresh

> I agree and did you read the chapter? If so what is your opinion of it. Have not really heard anyone really touch on it today


It's a trasitional issue. It's what I was expecting: slow paced, centered around Jason and Artemis. I even got some time for seing some emotional closures, like the one about the letters and the one about Roy. They didn't exactly close the ship, but I wasn't expecting that to be resolved. And we got a glance to the next conflicts: Essence in her sword in that safe, and the kids trying to be bad guys.

----------


## Aahz

> I think that every artist draws almost every character as they feel like, to some degree.


 Heigts often really depend on the artists. If you go by the official stats Jason and Artemis should be iirc the same height (6'0'') and Bizzaro shouldn't that much taller (6'3'').

----------


## Katana500

as long as the characterization is good, Height and stuff doesn't really bother me all that much. 

One question about yesterday's issue. How did Jason know Artemis was also lying?

----------


## Jackalope89

> as long as the characterization is good, Height and stuff doesn't really bother me all that much. 
> 
> One question about yesterday's issue. How did Jason know Artemis was also lying?


Guy was trained by Bruce, Talia, the All-Caste, and League of Assassins. He probably checks to see if someone is lying like other people breathe.

----------


## Robanker

> as long as the characterization is good, Height and stuff doesn't really bother me all that much. 
> 
> One question about yesterday's issue. How did Jason know Artemis was also lying?


You can usually tell when someone's into you when you're kissing them, especially if they've been away for a long time.

----------


## Katana500

> You can usually tell when someone's into you when you're kissing them, especially if they've been away for a long time.


yeah true. I really wonder what will happen between them now. 

Only concern I have is that after Lobdell whoever takes over Red Hood after him (which will happen eventually - probably sooner rather than later) that they will split the outlaws up and destroy all Jason's relationships.

----------


## Jackalope89

> yeah true. I really wonder what will happen between them now. 
> 
> Only concern I have is that after Lobdell whoever takes over Red Hood after him (which will happen eventually - probably sooner rather than later) that they will split the outlaws up and destroy all Jason's relationships.


So, no to Morrison and hell no to Bendis.

----------


## Zaresh

I think we still have a few more months of Lobdell (until #50), at least. I doubt Morrison or Bendis would sign for a Red Hood book; too little of a name and sales, and DC probably wants them in bigger books to maximise profit. But other writers would, I think. The character is pretty interesting, and has a wide range of genres that you can write hin on. And you don't need to read a ton of previous books to know what he's been doing before, his relationships, etc.

Well, in my opinion, at least.

----------


## K7P5V

Agreed. Jason/Red Hood appeals to a broad spectrum of both old & new readers.

----------


## Tomar8989

> as long as the characterization is good, Height and stuff doesn't really bother me all that much. 
> 
> One question about yesterday's issue. How did Jason know Artemis was also lying?



I think the bigger question is why did she lie?

----------


## Jackalope89

> I think the bigger question is why did she lie?


Maybe afraid to love again? Look what happened last time.

----------


## Katana500

> I think the bigger question is why did she lie?


Could even just be nervous that Jason wouldn't feel the same.

I think Jackalope is pretty spot on though. Probably doesn't want to risk her friendship with Jason collapsing if the relationship goes badly or something worse happening to Jason and she ends up alone again.

----------


## Zaresh

> I think the bigger question is why did she lie?


I had the feeling, back then, in issue 20 or so? After the fake-date, that she didn't like the idea of involving herself in a relationship with Jason because she thought she wasn't good (because she killed people like not-Willis and maybe a few other things she did for people like Luthor). She knows Jason has issues, and my guess is that, besides her own fears about falling in love and caring too much for someone in the business, she's also afraid to hurt him further.

But, I don't know.
I don't think that Lobdell is still that much against pairing the two in a ship, he's clearly slowly developing them; but this is a classic unresolved sexual tension, a trope people has been using in fiction (like in TV) for decades now, to get the audience caught for a long ride. And I think it works fine until people starts to get tired of the "will they or won't". I think it can work fine in comics, as much or even better than in TV, because you have a few issues in advance to plan the outcome of the relationship if you really need to end it (because it's become tiresome and readers are growing uninterested). If this run ends in issue #50, I think there's a high chance that we will get an answer in that last issue, being that them hooking up for good or breaking up.

(he he, I've just realised that I've been watching shows with that trope since I was a really small kid. Moonlighting and Remington Steele were two shows that I often watch with my mom).

So, what I mean is, that maybe he's trying to play that card to get people to stay in the book for a while. And that's the meta-reason why they're not honest to each other.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I believe this is Yasmine Putri's variant for the Robin 80th Anniversary one shot. Pretty glad it has Jason on his N52 Robin Costume.

----------


## Zaresh

> I believe this is Yasmine Putri's variant for the Robin 80th Anniversary one shot. Pretty glad it has Jason on his N52 Robin Costume.


Yep, it is. It's in DC's twitter, alongside with most of the other variants.

It's a really good cover.
A pity the one for the 80's has Carrie instead of Jason, but it was to be expected, with Miller doing it.

----------


## RedBird

> I believe this is Yasmine Putri's variant for the Robin 80th Anniversary one shot. Pretty glad it has Jason on his N52 Robin Costume.


I'm surprised that the Yasmine Putri cover wasn't a Damian only cover, but boy am I supremely glad that she was the artist to bring the group shot cover to life, cause this is GORGEOUS.

I love all the little details, the colors and tones, the giant R for robin in the background blending with all their yellow capes, the way that the zip line/rope moves your eye across the page, starting from Dick, moving across the robins and ending at Damian. The fact that they all have some kind of iconic weapon or tool in their hand. The zip line (plus general acrobatics) for Dick, the bo staff for Tim, the brass knuckles for Steph, the sword for Damian, the slingshot for Carrie, and of course the tire iron for Jason.  :Smile:  I love it

Also, it's interesting to note that everyone seems to be wearing their old and/or classic robin uniforms (Dicks in his classic, so is Tim, Steph and Carrie, and even Damian is wearing his old black hood yellow cape uniform) whilst Jason is the only one in his updated/modern new52 uniform. Not that I'm really complaining, I was actually going to make a post about my appreciation for the uniform. As much as I am nostalgic for the classic look, his new52/rebirth costume is by far one of the best versions of an updated robin v1 look that I have come across, one that modernizes on the more ridiculous aspects whilst still remaining faithful and recognizable in regards to the classic uniform.

----------


## Zaresh

> I'm surprised that the Yasmine Putri cover wasn't a Damian only cover, but boy am I supremely glad that she was the artist to bring the group shot cover to life, cause this is GORGEOUS.
> 
> I love all the little details, the colors and tones, the giant R for robin in the background blending with all their yellow capes, the way that the zip line/rope moves your eye across the page, starting from Dick, moving across the robins and ending at Damian. The fact that they all have some kind of iconic weapon or tool in their hand. The zip line (plus general acrobatics) for Dick, the bo staff for Tim, the brass knuckles for Steph, the sword for Damian, the slingshot for Carrie, and of course the tire iron for Jason.  I love it
> 
> Also, it's interesting to note that everyone seems to be wearing their old and/or classic robin uniforms (Dicks in his classic, so is Tim, Steph and Carrie, and even Damian is wearing his old black hood yellow cape uniform) whilst Jason is the only one in his updated/modern new52 uniform. Not that I'm really complaining, I was actually going to make a post about my appreciation for the uniform. As much as I am nostalgic for the classic look, his new52/rebirth costume is by far one of the best versions of an updated robin v1 look that I have come across, one that modernizes on the more ridiculous aspects whilst still remaining faithful and recognizable in regards to the classic uniform.


The layout of the picture, how every element is placed, is high leveled skill. I wrote about it in other thread, but they also are placed in pairs. It's great, really. Shows how good she is in her work.

Jason's N52 costume is really nice. It's modern, kind of "tacticool"; but not overly complex or too "cool", like Dick's. It's more balanced colour wise, has a nice waistline, AND, more importantly, has a yellow cape with the classic collar. And that's sweet and cute and surprisingly doesn't clash with the rest of the costume. It's my second most liked Robin costume after Tim's black and red (which Jason wear in the movie as well). I like it even more than Damian's original one, which is pretty nice, too.

----------


## Aahz

It is probably to have him look distinctive from Dick.

It is a pretty good Robin costume imo more fitting for Dick, but for Jason I would have preferred a darker color scheme.

----------


## RedBird

> Maybe afraid to love again? Look what happened last time.





> Could even just be nervous that Jason wouldn't feel the same.
> 
> I think Jackalope is pretty spot on though. Probably doesn't want to risk her friendship with Jason collapsing if the relationship goes badly or something worse happening to Jason and she ends up alone again.


Yeah, I think that's the gist of it. She still seems perhaps a little afraid of hurting someone she loves again, allowing herself to be vulnerable and love someone else and/or afraid of ruining or spoiling something _'good'_.

Apples are usually symbols of temptation and desire, I think the apple in the story may have been a way to represent Artemis's desire for a relationship and how she sees her bond with Jason. I'm paraphrasing, but even her first lines in the story are about the apple, and how it looks so amazing and just so perfect that she can't even bear to eat it.

----------


## Rise

It would have been great if the 80s cover was a combo of Jason and Carrie (and he was created before her anyway), but I can't say it's a huge lost because Miller's art doesn't appeal to me.




> It is probably to have him look distinctive from Dick.
> 
> It is a pretty good Robin costume imo more fitting for Dick, but for Jason I would have preferred a darker color scheme.


Why?

----------


## Tomar8989

> Yeah, I think that's the gist of it. She still seems perhaps a little afraid of hurting someone she loves again, allowing herself to be vulnerable and love someone else and/or afraid of ruining or spoiling something _'good'_.
> 
> Apples are usually symbols of temptation and desire, I think the apple in the story may have been a way to represent Artemis's desire for a relationship and how she sees her bond with Jason. I'm paraphrasing, but even her first lines in the story are about the apple, and how it looks so amazing and just so perfect that she can't even bear to eat it.


Something very interesting is that Jason said that  apples existed to be eaten,perhaps that was in a way a poetic rebuttal to her feeling like the Apple was too good to eat. Maybe saying that she is thinking to deep about things, just go with your desire to eat the apple.I believe that Jason does indeed want to get into a relationship with her but he knows that she has a very hard time being vulnerable to him but in this issue they both had walls around them and by the end they both came tumbling down whether it was her hugging Jason or Jason cupping her chin. She may be afraid to fall in love again but judging by this issue and the admission that they both are lying its going to happen eventually.

----------


## RedBird

> Something very interesting is that Jason said that  apples existed to be eaten,perhaps that was in a way a poetic rebuttal to her feeling like the Apple was too good to eat. Maybe saying that she is thinking to deep about things, just go with your desire to eat the apple.I believe that Jason does indeed want to get into a relationship with her but he knows that she has a very hard time being vulnerable to him but in this issue they both had walls around them and by the end they both came tumbling down whether it was her hugging Jason or Jason cupping her chin. She may be afraid to fall in love again but judging by this issue and the admission that they both are lying its going to happen eventually.



I was actually thinking the exact same thing, but I thought I might have been reading too much into things, glad to see I'm not the only one to see that. I thought Jasons comment was a reflection of the fact that he is more ready for a relationship and understands at this point to not squander an opportunity. That good things should be taken as they come. After all that's what his memory with Roy from the last issue had been about.

----------


## Sergard

> Vhyrel's commission for me 
> 
> Attachment 91943


Thanks again for the tip.  :Smile: 
Here's the sketch that Vhyrel drew for me. 

Jason Todd Red Hood sketch by Vyrel.jpg

----------


## AJpyro

Read #42 and enjoyed it immensely. Jason truly has a supporting cast thats growing on me and this wad a sweet little cool down issue.

----------


## Zaresh

> I was actually thinking the exact same thing, but I thought I might have been reading too much into things, glad to see I'm not the only one to see that. I thought Jasons comment was a reflection of the fact that he is more ready for a relationship and understands at this point to not squander an opportunity. That good things should be taken as they come. After all that's what his memory with Roy from the last issue had been about.


Sometimes apples are just apples.
Sometimes apples want to be eaten, because they're meant to be.
Ear the apple, Artemis. He's just waiting there, go eat him!

----------


## Zaresh

> Thanks again for the tip. 
> Here's the sketch that Vhyrel drew for me. 
> 
> Attachment 92093


Cool. Love it.

----------


## kaimaciel

> Thanks again for the tip. 
> Here's the sketch that Vhyrel drew for me. 
> 
> Attachment 92093


You're welcome. He looks great!

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Found this online, no idea if is legit.

----------


## Sergard

> Found this online, no idea if is legit.


Legit in what sense?
Looks cute anyway  :Smile: . Red Hood and Deathstroke stuff is always awesome.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

As in being a real product and not photoshop

----------


## RedBird

All I can say is I definitely want one  :Big Grin:

----------


## Robanker

> Something very interesting is that Jason said that  apples existed to be eaten,perhaps that was in a way a poetic rebuttal to her feeling like the Apple was too good to eat. Maybe saying that she is thinking to deep about things, just go with your desire to eat the apple.I believe that Jason does indeed want to get into a relationship with her but he knows that she has a very hard time being vulnerable to him but in this issue they both had walls around them and by the end they both came tumbling down whether it was her hugging Jason or Jason cupping her chin. She may be afraid to fall in love again but judging by this issue and the admission that they both are lying its going to happen eventually.


Possibly, but on a meta level it was just a big "don't want to deal with it" move so I'm not sure it will happen. If it does, it's another writer Lobdell as he's leaving. He just never seemed that into it.

----------


## RedBird

I'm only now just realizing that Jason and Artemis both have weapons that are somewhat bound to their souls, and are both summoned at will.

Considering the next arc features the Untitled, I wonder if it will provide any new information about the All-Blades for Jason. They seemed weak and easily diminished in his fight against Akila, but in the Prince of Gotham arc he recalls fighting a monstrous entity during his time with the All-Caste and claiming to have a lot more soul back then. I've been wondering for a while if that was meant to be foreshadowing for some future arc regarding the 'strength' behind Jasons soul and the blades.

----------


## Tomar8989

[QUOTE=Robanker;4803172]Possibly, but on a meta level it was just a big "don't want to deal with it" move so I'm not sure it will happen. If it does, it's another writer Lobdell as he's leaving. He just never seemed that into it.[/QUOT


Lobdell was at first not for it but editorial is really pushing it I mean we can just look at his writeing from issue 11 until now its a clear slow build relationship and the book is not closed on their feelings. It is revealed in the last panel that they were lying to each other therefore there is more to explore with these two rather than just closing it at this issue. Editorial is really pushing it babe and for that reason I do believe that this relationship will come to fruition. Ships sell at the end of the day

----------


## Sergard

Jason Fabok

_For those about to rock....FIRE!_

----------


## Jackalope89

> Jason Fabok
> 
> _For those about to rock....FIRE!_


I can see Jason being an AC/DC fan.

----------


## Sergard

> I believe this is Yasmine Putri's variant for the Robin 80th Anniversary one shot. Pretty glad it has Jason on his N52 Robin Costume.


I haven't mentioned yet how much I love this cover. It's perfection.
We all already knew that Yasmine Putri is an awesome artist. But this here is next level.
I love the composition and all the little details (costumes and weapons that are personal to each Robin).
I look at the cover and it feels like every Robin is equally in the spotlight.
For me, this cover symbolizes what I love the most about "Robin" (even if it's not what DC is officially going for. So it's more of a headcanon.): Robin being a mantle that gives kids/teenagers the opportunity to express themselves, a place in life and the chance to do something good in this world.






> I'm only now just realizing that Jason and Artemis both have weapons that are somewhat bound to their souls, and are both summoned at will.
> 
> Considering the next arc features the Untitled, I wonder if it will provide any new information about the All-Blades for Jason. They seemed weak and easily diminished in his fight against Akila, but in the Prince of Gotham arc he recalls fighting a monstrous entity during his time with the All-Caste and claiming to have a lot more soul back then. I've been wondering for a while if that was meant to be foreshadowing for some future arc regarding the 'strength' behind Jasons soul and the blades.


It's an interesting parallel. I hope we'll learn more about the All-Blades soon - and about Mistress' whereabouts. I also want to see the Bow of Ra again and maybe Lobdell remembers the lasso that Artemis received from Wonder Woman (even if the story itself wasn't that great in "Wonder Woman" - but the lasso is still cool.)




> I can see Jason being an AC/DC fan.


That wouldn't be too farfetched. ;-)


---------------



Belated happy Lunar New Year to everyone. 2020 is the Year of the Rat in China, in case someone wonders why there are fanarts depicting characters with mice/rat traits.

sullycommander




Vorimar

----------


## Sergard

First look: _Red Hood: Outlaw #43_

----------


## Sergard



----------


## Jackalope89

Took me a second to remember who they're fighting. But I also wonder if they're on the train in search of Mistress as well?

----------


## AJpyro

I thought they were fighting those villanous schoolgirls from either Stephanie's BG run or Dick's DG run.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

What the hell is wrong with the Outlaws' faces?

----------


## Sergard

Seeing Jason, Artemis and Bizarro fight on a train reminds me of the beginning of RHatO when Jason and Artemis first met on a train where they also found Bizarro.

----------


## Aahz

https://nightwingy.tumblr.com/post/1...s-oh-myhttp://

----------


## Zaresh

About the preview.

Mmm... Anatomy is a bit off. And I think I'm not a fan of how's layered out, to be honest. It's a bit confusing, it lacks a bit of what happens in-between. I guess the text will help the sequence.

----------


## Sergard

> https://nightwingy.tumblr.com/post/1...s-oh-myhttp://


Looks interesting.
Jason seems to be wearing his Under the Red Hood costume. Although I'm not sure if that panel is meant to be the "present" of the story or a flashback.

----------


## RedBird

> Looks interesting.
> Jason seems to be wearing his Under the Red Hood costume. Although I'm not sure if that panel is meant to be the "present" of the story or a flashback.


Oh the art looks wonderful, I love Nguyens work and from what I can tell it looks like a sort of current day and flashback contrast. The art appears to be one single page except for the middle image of Jason jumping which seems to be covering two other panels underneath, possibly to avoid spoilers.

----------


## Sergard

It's nice to see that Nguyen shares some fan stuff on his page too.

Like this cute Young Justice fanart by sarriathmg




And here's another one with Young Justice Jason and Damian, that I found on Twitter.

zumaon




I'm curious how Jason's story will continue in Young Justice - well, I hope that Jason will make an appearance in season 4 since he and Damian were introduced in season 3.

----------


## Zaresh

> Oh the art looks wonderful, I love Nguyens work and from what I can tell it looks like a sort of current day and flashback contrast. The art appears to be one single page except for the middle image of Jason jumping which seems to be covering two other panels underneath, possibly to avoid spoilers.


It looks... I don't know, but "I want to hug him" is something that comes to my mind for the two panels in the upper side.

----------


## kaimaciel

> https://nightwingy.tumblr.com/post/1...s-oh-myhttp://


Hold it... Dustin Nguyen is drawing Jason's story?!! YEAH!!

----------


## Sergard

Little fanfic recommendation (maybe Zaresh already mentioned it somewhere but I haven't seen it, sorry if this is a double recommendation  :Wink: ): All Good Things by pudding_bretzel is a gen-rated story in which "Jason listened to Ducra and stayed with the All Caste instead of returning to Gotham. But after the caste is wiped out and he hears news of the Red Hood terrorizing his hometown, he can't escape the pull of his past anymore."

So far, 7 out of 15 chapters have been uploaded and I'm really enjoying it. Jason has already interacted with the Red Hood and other members of the batfamily - without them knowing who he is.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Little fanfic recommendation (maybe Zaresh already mentioned it somewhere but I haven't seen it, sorry if this is a double recommendation ): All Good Things by pudding_bretzel is a gen-rated story in which "Jason listened to Ducra and stayed with the All Caste instead of returning to Gotham. But after the caste is wiped out and he hears news of the Red Hood terrorizing his hometown, he can't escape the pull of his past anymore."
> 
> So far, 7 out of 15 chapters have been uploaded and I'm really enjoying it. Jason has already interacted with the Red Hood and other members of the batfamily - without them knowing who he is.


Been following that story myself. A few things have yet to be fully explained, but in a good way. Its a pretty interesting story, to be sure.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Huh, Nguyen took down that post about Jason.

----------


## Sergard

> Huh, Nguyen took down that post about Jason.


No, he didn't.
https://nightwingy.tumblr.com/post/1...ive-this-oh-my
The link above has an additional "http://" at the end. That's why the link above doesn't work correctly.

----------


## Zaresh

> Little fanfic recommendation (maybe Zaresh already mentioned it somewhere but I haven't seen it, sorry if this is a double recommendation ): All Good Things by pudding_bretzel is a gen-rated story in which "Jason listened to Ducra and stayed with the All Caste instead of returning to Gotham. But after the caste is wiped out and he hears news of the Red Hood terrorizing his hometown, he can't escape the pull of his past anymore."
> 
> So far, 7 out of 15 chapters have been uploaded and I'm really enjoying it. Jason has already interacted with the Red Hood and other members of the batfamily - without them knowing who he is.


I didn't, but I think @Jackalope89 did when it started. I'm following it as well, but I didn't start to read it until a week ago.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> No, he didn't.
> https://nightwingy.tumblr.com/post/1...ive-this-oh-my
> The link above has an additional "http://" at the end. That's why the link above doesn't work correctly.


You realize that is a repost by someone else, right?

There's nothing on Ngyuen Instagram https://www.instagram.com/duss005/?hl=es-la

----------


## Aahz

But at least the parts of this picture are on his Instagram.

----------


## Sergard

> You realize that is a repost by someone else, right?
> 
> There's nothing on Ngyuen Instagram https://www.instagram.com/duss005/?hl=es-la


Lol. Sorry. I didn't.  :Stick Out Tongue: 
I was too distracted reading a fanfic that I didn't check the url.

----------


## RedBird

Nevermind.

----------


## Sergard

Paolo Pantalena has posted the linework of the RH:O #45 cover on Instagram.
I appreciate all the details (although I still don't like Jason's face here - and I also don't like the color of his skin on the colored version).

----------


## Zaresh

Related to the topic, maybe? Dexter has posted this promising pic with Artemis. I guess it's technically fanart, but still.

https://twitter.com/dextersoy/status...909766656?s=20

(Sorry guys, I can't insert the pic)

----------


## Sergard

> Related to the topic, maybe? Dexter has posted this promising pic with Artemis. I guess it's technically fanart, but still.
> 
> https://twitter.com/dextersoy/status...909766656?s=20
> 
> (Sorry guys, I can't insert the pic)


Judging by Diana's two pigtails this could be a commission for overseer195 and their fan-created Amazon Corps universe.

And when we are already talking about fan-works: Kira has continued their _Bats in the Ring_ story:

_11. Vigilante vengeance_



_12. "You could have prevented this."_



_13. Eyes on me_

----------


## Sergard

And the latest part: 

_14. A damned prince of the ring_





I love it when fan artists get creative like that - and when other artists get inspired too and draw fanarts for a fan universe, for example here's a fanart of Tim Drake and how he could look like in the Bats in the Ring universe.

----------


## Zaresh

> And the latest part: 
> 
> _14. A damned prince of the ring_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love it when fan artists get creative like that - and when other artists get inspired too and draw fanarts for a fan universe, for example here's a fanart of Tim Drake and how he could look like in the Bats in the Ring universe.


Yeah, and to be honest, it has to be fun as hell, drawing this kind of stuff.

----------


## Sergard

> Yeah, and to be honest, it has to be fun as hell, drawing this kind of stuff.


True.  :Smile: 
And sometimes, when I see fanarts that are based on a meme, I imagine that artists have to giggle the whole time drawing. Like for example:

ichijiku



N i x

----------


## Eto

Okay, I'll admit, those pictures had me laughing ^.
well done, Sergard.

----------


## Sergard

Jason Fabok

_Batgirl._



From the comment section:

Answer to a question about the release date:

_We want to get it out soon .  We had to change some stuff up internally, and that changed our timeline a bit.  But It'll be announced (hopefully) soon.  We have a plan to make up for the long wait...AND we came up with an even MORE mind blowing ending...We are going all out._

Additional comment by Fabok about the ending:

_no, ending is the same it always was...but we added some MORE awesome stuff that will take it up past 11 and into 12! 12 Loud!_

Jason Fabok hopes that the book will live up to the hype.

_Me too lol.  But even if no one likes it, I'll love it.  It's been my life for 2 years and there's alot of personal stuff that's inspired the story.  We feel it's a love letter to Batman and to the fans who deserve the best we can give.   This book is for you._

----------


## Zaresh

> Jason Fabok
> 
> _Batgirl._
> 
> 
> 
> From the comment section:
> 
> Answer to a question about the release date:
> ...


I really hope it turns out good, not only because I want to like their work, but also, because I hope them the best, now that it seems their involvement is that deeply personal.

----------


## Sergard

ROBIN 80TH ANNIVERSARY 100-PAGE SUPER SPECTACULAR Postponed a Week

_DC has informed retailers that the Robin 80th Anniversary 100-Page Super Spectacular has been postponed a week. Originally announced and solicited for release March 11, the anthology has shifted back slightly to March 18._

Good thing it's only a week.

I've found a photoshopped version of Yasmine Putri's 2010s variant cover. Here Jason wears the No-pants-Robin-costume. I'm glad that Yasmine Putri chose the New52 version. Not only do I dislike the original Robin costume but I feel like Jason's bare leg would be a little distracting in the center of the cover.

----------


## Zaresh

> ROBIN 80TH ANNIVERSARY 100-PAGE SUPER SPECTACULAR Postponed a Week
> 
> _DC has informed retailers that the Robin 80th Anniversary 100-Page Super Spectacular has been postponed a week. Originally announced and solicited for release March 11, the anthology has shifted back slightly to March 18._
> 
> Good thing it's only a week.
> 
> I've found a photoshopped version of Yasmine Putri's 2010s variant cover. Here Jason wears the No-pants-Robin-costume. I'm glad that Yasmine Putri chose the New52 version. Not only do I dislike the original Robin costume but I feel like Jason's bare leg would be a little distracting in the center of the cover.


I like his original boots though. Maybe with some dark green leotards... ? I like the N52 costume, regardless.

----------


## Sergard

> Jason Fabok
> 
> _Batgirl._
> 
> 
> 
> From the comment section:
> 
> Answer to a question about the release date:
> ...


More from the comment section:

Jason Fabok (about Three Jokers being potentially controversial): _oh it will be...in more ways then one.  We've pretty much said "Lets do a Joker/Batman story that we would want to tell if we had zero restrictions" and too be honest, we think DC is a bit afraid of it.  But that's good!  We go where no one has gone before. And fans will dig it._

Jason Fabok (answering the question if there'll be Three Jokers action figures): _Id love it.  But I dont think so.  I tried to talk #dccollectibles into it a few years back, but Im not sure it'll happen...Image two 3 packs...Batman, Batgirl, Red Hood and then the Three Jokers?_

----------


## Sergard

Two Twitter posts by Karl Mostert and Tom Taylor about Unkillables:
(Seems like Tom Taylor is really enjoying himself xD)

Karl Mostert

Karl Mostert twitter 06-02-2020.jpg


Tom Taylor

Tom Taylor 05-02-2020.jpg

And from the comment section:

Person A: _oh so the Batmobile is the only thing safe in your stories?_

Tom Taylor: _I didnt say it was safe._


Person B: _damn, i was really pulling for jason to finally get those hubcaps_

Tom Taylor: _Im not saying he doesnt._

----------


## Restingvoice

> ROBIN 80TH ANNIVERSARY 100-PAGE SUPER SPECTACULAR Postponed a Week
> 
> _DC has informed retailers that the Robin 80th Anniversary 100-Page Super Spectacular has been postponed a week. Originally announced and solicited for release March 11, the anthology has shifted back slightly to March 18._
> 
> Good thing it's only a week.
> 
> I've found a photoshopped version of Yasmine Putri's 2010s variant cover. Here Jason wears the No-pants-Robin-costume. I'm glad that Yasmine Putri chose the New52 version. Not only do I dislike the original Robin costume but I feel like Jason's bare leg would be a little distracting in the center of the cover.


That distraction is what the one who edit want... oh it's by BottomJay, of course... it's hidden under the sensitive content when I opened it lolz XD

----------


## Sergard

> That distraction is what the one who edit want... oh it's by BottomJay, of course... it's hidden under the sensitive content when I opened it lolz XD


The artist's name is actually Fade. BottomJay is just part of their twitter url.

---

Today my copy of Gotham Bold (batfamily fashion zine) has finally arrived - and it contains some really awesome artworks.


My personal favorite is by inkydandy:

----------


## redmax99

nevermind!

----------


## E.Marie

> More from the comment section:
> 
> Jason Fabok (about Three Jokers being potentially controversial): _oh it will be...in more ways then one.  We've pretty much said "Lets do a Joker/Batman story that we would want to tell if we had zero restrictions" and too be honest, we think DC is a bit afraid of it.  But that's good!  We go where no one has gone before. And fans will dig it._
> 
> Jason Fabok (answering the question if there'll be Three Jokers action figures): _Id love it.  But I dont think so.  I tried to talk #dccollectibles into it a few years back, but Im not sure it'll happen...Image two 3 packs...Batman, Batgirl, Red Hood and then the Three Jokers?_


Not going to lie, I'm not that excited about the controversy. Especially since I feel like I know what it will be about.

As for the figures, I'd rather have a set of the Robins (Dick, Jason, Tim, Steph and Damian) in their uniforms. I'd love to see the current Jason uniform get made.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

DC has been released some snippets here and there of Batman #89 and this one caught my eye. Look at the board behind Joker.

----------


## Sergard

> DC has been released some snippets here and there of Batman #89 and this one caught my eye. Look at the board behind Joker.


I've seen those snippets too yesterday.
I don't know how I should feel about it. Is this supposed to be another Death of the Family story?

I'm not surprised that Joker knows all their identities. I assumed that Joker already knew that Batman is Bruce Wayne. With that knowledge it's easy to guess the four main Robins.
Nice sunglasses, Jason, by the way.
Funny that Joker has a photo of Jason's current costume but not of Tim's.
And did Joker use different pin colors for everybody?

----------


## Sergard

First Look: Honor Alfred's amazing life in DC's new Batman: Pennyworth R.I.P. #1

This feels sad and bitter.
Jason's grandfather figure died and he wasn't even allowed to come to the event.

----------


## Aahz

Has Jason stolen Conners sunglasses ?  :Cool:

----------


## RedBird

Why was Jason told not to come to the public event?
He already established his identity to the public  :Confused:

----------


## Sergard

I've just realized now that Joker's photos show the batkids in their Batman: Pennyworth R.I.P. #1 clothes.

----------


## Katana500

> First Look: Honor Alfred's amazing life in DC's new Batman: Pennyworth R.I.P. #1
> 
> This feels sad and bitter.
> Jason's grandfather figure died and he wasn't even allowed to come to the event.


I think he was supposed to only not go to the public part of the event but was welcome at the family part.

I think they need to make it clear whether or not the Public actuallly know Jason is alive or not?

----------


## Jackalope89

> I think he was supposed to only not go to the public part of the event but was welcome at the family part.
> 
> I think they need to make it clear whether or not the Public actuallly know Jason is alive or not?


It was established that Jason was alive to the public back when he was running the Iceberg Lounge. He was even interviewed about it in that arc.

----------


## E.Marie

> It was established that Jason was alive to the public back when he was running the Iceberg Lounge. He was even interviewed about it in that arc.


We even got Alfred and Bruces' reactions to that so it makes no sense that he was forbidden for ID reasons. I'm hoping this actually addresses the issues with the family and doesn't ignore them.

----------


## Sergard

> Not going to lie, I'm not that excited about the controversy. Especially since I feel like I know what it will be about.
> 
> As for the figures, I'd rather have a *set of the Robins (Dick, Jason, Tim, Steph and Damian) in their uniforms*. I'd love to see the current Jason uniform get made.


Sadly that's a lost opportunity for the Robin 80th Anniversary.

I'd like to have a set of Jason, Artemis and Bizarro (current design with the beard).
I've recently seen an incredibly awesome 3D printing of Artemis (source: Victor Kallahan). Even Dexter Soy retweeted the pictures.

----------


## E.Marie

> Sadly that's an lost opportunity for the Robin 80th Anniversary.
> 
> I'd like to have a set of Jason, Artemis and Bizarro (current design with the beard).
> I've recently seen an incredibly awesome 3D printing of Artemis


Yeah, I don't understand the lack of marketing especially from DCC. Maybe McFarlane will make them but I'm still not sold on that line yet. Mezco said they weren't going to make Robins awhile back and that's one of the most requested figures. Either the characters as Robin or older ones like Nightwing and Red Hood.

I'd love a new Artemis figure and a Outlaws line up in the Dexter Soy style would be ideal.

I love that Artemis statute.

----------


## Zaresh

> Sadly that's an lost opportunity for the Robin 80th Anniversary.
> 
> I'd like to have a set of Jason, Artemis and Bizarro (current design with the beard).
> I've recently seen an incredibly awesome 3D printing of Artemis (source: Victor Kallahan). Even Dexter Soy retweeted the pictures.


Woah! This one is pretty nice. I wouldn't mind her in my selves, and I'm not even a fan. It's just that cool.
(Nice to see that she doesn't wear high heels or something. I hate heels)

----------


## Sergard

I reread some of the "Exploring the Time Lab" blog entries and I enjoyed them very much because the writer seems to put a lot of time and effort into analyzing characters and stories.

The most recent one is Unanswered Questions of the Hieve El Agua Plot.

The writer has also a little The Problems with the Bat Family series:
Part 1 (Bruce, Alfred, Dick)
Part 2 (Barbara and Tim)
Part 3 (Jason and Damian)

And if someone is interested, here's the review on RH:O #42.

----------


## Sergard

JJMK has posted a new fanart and it's - like always -  beautiful (reference to Titans season 2):

----------


## Jackalope89

> JJMK has posted a new fanart and it's - like always -  beautiful (reference to Titans season 2):


I do wonder what direction they'll go with Jason in season 3. Especially since he's basically on his own now. And he's always a scene stealer as well. Will we see Red Hood? Or will they make the popular fan theory true by making Jason into Red X?

----------


## Sergard

> I do wonder what direction they'll go with Jason in season 3. Especially since he's basically on his own now. And he's always a scene stealer as well. Will we see Red Hood? Or will they make the popular fan theory true by making Jason into Red X?


It could go either way.
There's a Red Hood series rumored but that series could take place on a different earth.
If they want to keep Curran Walters' Jason in the Titans series then Red X would probably be a better choice, in my opinion.

----------


## Celgress

> Sadly that's a lost opportunity for the Robin 80th Anniversary.
> 
> I'd like to have a set of Jason, Artemis and Bizarro (current design with the beard).
> I've recently seen an incredibly awesome 3D printing of Artemis (source: Victor Kallahan). Even Dexter Soy retweeted the pictures.


I love this so much. Artie looks especially bad ass here, which is fitting.  :Cool:

----------


## Sergard

I've reached a point where I'm slightly optimistic about 5G. As long as I get my monthly dose of RHatO with the Dark Trinity and Jason caring for the kids I'm cool.

5G could be a chance to finally escape all these story flow destroying events and tie-ins.

Dexter Soy

_Old (almost forgotten) sketch of  Red Hood and friends_



source (art by alejandramaria247 )

----------


## Sergard

Is this real? (source)

_ARKHAM! Shout to @jwmp_show for the heads up, Japans Wonder Festival gives us a look at the upcoming ARKHAM KNIGHT @flametoys_staff figure from the Batman Video games. Roughly 7.5in and having elements of die cast, look for more info in this upcoming figure as it becomes available._

----------


## Zaresh

> I've reached a point where I'm slightly optimistic about 5G. As long as I get my monthly dose of RHatO with the Dark Trinity and Jason caring for the kids I'm cool.
> 
> 5G could be a chance to finally escape all these story flow destroying events and tie-ins.


I'm kind of optimistic too, if they get to pull some advance for certain characters that would let them grow, open their progression to new stories and conflicts. And I know it's not going to last more than 5 years so, whatever. I might not going to read Batman, but I may read Superman, for example. Or any other new character if the writer is of my like.

But to be fair, I was indifferent to the idea to begin with. I just though it could bomb too easily. And still think. I don't think people will buy a new Batman that almost no-one expects to take into the mantle, but they may if they keep Bruce around, a la Beyond. I had problems with Damian being Luke's Robin, and Jon bein Supes; but I think rumours and hints are pointing to Damian graduating from the R and Jon being de-aged to be aged naturally again alongside the others? That, I think it may work. I can see the other working to some degree. Kind of feels like the 90's or the second half of the 00's. And they seem to still be publishing contemporary 4G stories, so there's a bit for everyone. And I kind of like that. I'm not confident it will last or amount to anything in the end, but, eh, let'¡s see how it works.

And we may find out if Jason gets old or not, or if he's immortal, or whatever. You know, those unlikely, crazy theories we all have read at some point  :Cool:

----------


## Jackalope89

I'm still pessimistic about 5G. I'm not against the old cast of the JL retiring or taking a backseat for awhile (though not exactly happy with the direction the Super line has taken in recent times), but shoving in characters people don't expect? And subverting expectations just for the sake of it?

Not a fan of it. Subversion isn't a bad thing, when done right. But it doesn't feel like its done right with this.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Jason is one of the options in the "DC's sexiest men: Hunk Edition" poll of DC Universe

https://www.dcuniverse.com/news/poll...-week-2-hunks/

----------


## Rise

> I reread some of the "Exploring the Time Lab" blog entries and I enjoyed them very much because the writer seems to put a lot of time and effort into analyzing characters and stories.
> 
> The most recent one is Unanswered Questions of the Hieve El Agua Plot.
> 
> The writer has also a little The Problems with the Bat Family series:
> Part 1 (Bruce, Alfred, Dick)
> Part 2 (Barbara and Tim)
> Part 3 (Jason and Damian)
> 
> And if someone is interested, here's the review on RH:O #42.


I honestly wonder how can anyone unironically believe that Dick is struggling because DC is afraid of him "outshining" Batman. I mean, come on. The reason why he is struggling is the same reason why every other character does too which is because writers don't have the right pitch for them. It's not a conspiracy nor some kind of agenda aganist him or anyone else.

And seeing the theories about Wills reminded with how disappointed I was with how Lobdell handled the plot. Issue 23 is still to me the best issue he wrote in his 10 years with Red Hood and it's a shame how it went nowhere.

----------


## Zaresh

> *I honestly wonder how can anyone unironically believe that Dick is struggling because DC is afraid of him "outshining" Batman. I mean, come on. The reason why he is struggling is the same reason why every other character does too which is because writers don't have the right pitch for them. It's not a conspiracy nor some kind of agenda aganist him or anyone else.*
> 
> And seeing the theories about Wills reminded with how disappointed I was with how Lobdell handled the plot. Issue 23 is still to me the best issue he wrote in his 10 years with Red Hood and it's a shame how it went nowhere.


Those conspicacy theories always make  me roll my eyes. If a character it's struggling, logic says is not because someone has putting them aside because some fear for other character, or because someone in a high place dislikes them. I have a hard time believing that because every character is an asset to the company they're owned by, and damaging them voluntary is damaging a possible future income, because you never know what will work for the readers next week or month or year.

If a character is struggling, I think it's usually because editorial either doesn't know what they want to do with them, or the concept they chose for them doesn't grab interest between the readers, or the artistic team isn't doing a good enough work "selling" it. Or there isn't just enough interest in that character at the time. They're tied to tendences, like everything else; people gain and loose interest in certain stories with the passing of time. This works for every fictional story. I like Blue Bettle, for example (I'm not a fan, but I like both Jaime and Ted), and I know that I don't have a new booke because probably there isn't enough interest in the audience and maybe because there isn't a creative team with an idea that the bosses like for them. Or the Green Arrow cast as a whole, a big one fanbase with even a Life Action and everything: I bet it's not only that Bendis benched their book because his Leviathan stuff. By now, that ended and there's still no book in the near future. Nope. I think they just put the whole cast to rest for a while, and see if, much like tsome cuotivated land would, it gains some new momentum with a bit of passed time, some new interest. And maybe a new idea.to work with that they like.  Or maybe they're just waiting for 5G to release a book with Connor as GA  :Big Grin:  IDK.

----------


## Sergard

> Jason is one of the options in the "DC's sexiest men: Hunk Edition" poll of DC Universe
> 
> https://www.dcuniverse.com/news/poll...-week-2-hunks/


DC Universe is also advertising the poll on Twitter.

_DC Universe
@TheDCUniverse
Hubba hubba! This week, DCs hunks take the stage in the search for DCs sexiest man in the Universe! https://yourdcu.com/sxmwk2_



_Which of these four bachelors will you pick? Vote here: https://yourdcu.com/sxmwk2v_



And here's the original post:

_Dick Grayson is so last year. Its time for someone new to take on the role of sexiest man of the DC Universe. Check out our contestants here and vote for your picks each week!  https://yourdcu.com/dcusma_





They should also make a Best Detective poll and exclude Batman. The same way that there are a lot of hot guys in the DC universe that can challenge Dick, there are brilliant detectives in the DC universe that can keep up with Bruce.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Is this real? (source)


It is

https://twitter.com/flametoys_staff/...00767161356289

I'm cracking up at the banner for the Sexiest man using that panel of Jason in the shower from RH/A #2

----------


## Sergard

> It is
> 
> https://twitter.com/flametoys_staff/...00767161356289
> 
> I'm cracking up at the banner for the Sexiest man using that panel of Jason in the shower from RH/A #2


Me too. We all know what's going to happen in the next panels.  :Wink: 
Paolo Pantalena's artworks are going places.
Wasn't one of his artworks also used on a figure box?

I'm surprised that they are still making new Arkham Knight figures.
Seems like the game is still popular.

----------


## Jackalope89

How did everyone feel about Jason's part in Alfred RIP?

Honestly, I think his reaction was muted, that he should have been far angrier with Bruce then what was shown. And not sure if Tomasi read it or not, but Outlaws #25 gave some pretty good reasons for Jason not wanting to help Bruce.

----------


## Zaresh

> How did everyone feel about Jason's part in Alfred RIP?
> 
> Honestly, I think his reaction was muted, that he should have been far angrier with Bruce then what was shown. And not sure if Tomasi read it or not, but Outlaws #25 gave some pretty good reasons for Jason not wanting to help Bruce.


I didn't read it yet (I'm not at home yet), but for one, as far as I see, it's not like Jason was absolutely antaginizing in RHATO #27 either. He's not going to chill with Bruce at all, as seen in the issue where Jason comes back to Gotham; but he seems to be kind of emotionally supportive, I guess? Which would be why he hugged Bruce, because all that happened with the HiC mess, that should have hit Bruce hard.

----------


## Aahz

> How did everyone feel about Jason's part in Alfred RIP?


He drinks, is a jerk, must be saved and is not included in the family photo.
Pretty much standard treatment of him by the Batoffice.

----------


## Sergard

Batman: Pennyworth R.I.P. was weird. I thought it's about mourning Alfred but it felt more like a Bruce Wayne, Barbara Gordon and Dick Grayson show.
Some dialogues felt weird.
Some scenes felt weird.
All in all there was so much potential but a lot of potential was wasted.

----------


## E.Marie

> How did everyone feel about Jason's part in Alfred RIP?
> 
> Honestly, I think his reaction was muted, that he should have been far angrier with Bruce then what was shown. And not sure if Tomasi read it or not, but Outlaws #25 gave some pretty good reasons for Jason not wanting to help Bruce.


I haven't gotten the issue yet but what I have seen in commentary makes it feel like no one keeps canon straight.

----------


## Zaresh

> He drinks, is a jerk, must be saved and is not included in the family photo.
> Pretty much standard treatment of him by the Batoffice.


Sigh. I guess I'll ask someone to lend me the issue. All of the four, and not even a positive trait to balance? Sigh

----------


## Zaresh

> Batman: Pennyworth R.I.P. was weird. I thought it's about mourning Alfred but it felt more like a Bruce Wayne, Barbara Gordon and Dick Grayson show.
> Some dialogues felt weird.
> Some scenes felt weird.
> All in all there was so much potential but a lot of potential was wasted.


So, standard treatment for the Royalty of the company. Everything needs to be only about them, even when it shouldn't.

I'm mad now.

----------


## Katana500

> He drinks, is a jerk, must be saved and is not included in the family photo.
> Pretty much standard treatment of him by the Batoffice.


Im not sure Jason comes across that badly. Sure he is a bit arguementative at the start but I think that can be chalked up too grief. Its natural to say things you don't mean especially when you are upset. Barbara arguebly loses her cool her more by tossing a glass at the wall.
Tim and Barbara especially absolutely rip Bruce to shreds (rightfully so). Jason comes across as alot more sympathetic.

I actually really enjoyed this issue! Because I think this is the precursor to Bruce getting his head out his arse and fixing what he has broken!

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Jason does make good points, true, but ultimately it is pointless because is obviously depicted as the one being in the wrong there.  Besides that, the story keeps the tradition of using Jason as a means to prop the others by being the one acting wrong/bad. I do appreciate them using the classic costume instead of Ermac's.

----------


## Zaresh

Hey, I read it.

It wasn't that bad for Jason. I didn't like the issue: they make the whole thing about Bruce, when it should've been about Alfred. And that's bad, however you look at it. It's like when you're in a wedding and some random guest is stealing the spotlight of the groom and the bride. That's tasteless, and Alfred has his fans, you know? And art was, eh, not my cup of tea half the time (thankfully, not in Jason's flashbacks few pages :3). But errr, Jason's part in this little mess wasn't that bad? You made it feel way worse than it was! O.o Like @Katana said, he comes across as rather sympathetic. It's true that they make it look like he's kinda bad and stuff, when the others (but Damian, who is clearly shocked and guilt tripped, shut in himself) mostly do the same, and his points are actual real points, and readers have to realize they're, ultimately. But still, his role was nice: he was kinda mature, even. Can't say the same for Barbara, that honestly, I didn't like at all (but I usually don't like her much, so...). But then, of course, he's left out of the family picture. Ah, I wish someone would put some glue in the seat of certain people.

This issue should've been published in the regular Batman run, not as some special issue for Alfred. This is Batman and Robin Eternal or Robin War all over again.

And what the heck? There's at least two if not three things in this issue that are against what RHATO states differently. And at least a big one for Dick and Nightwing as far as I know. Feels as if they wrote this issue in a rush and never took into account other books but Batman and, maybe, Tec. That's a bit of a sloppy work, if you ask me.

----------


## Aahz

> Im not sure Jason comes across that badly.


It is not that bad but it is also not great (and I wouldn't have such a big problem if it wasn't always like that if he appears in a Batfamily story).

I'm just sick of these Jason is reckless, overly reliant on his guns and needs to be saved thing, in this case from a bunch of random thugs.
Compare it to the other flashbacks, Damian, Barbara and Tim get their villains down with no problem, with Damian and Tim being Just at the beginning of their career, but Jason of course doesn't ....

----------


## E.Marie

That reminds me of another story Tynion did, the Batman #0 back up I think. It showed Dick, Jason, Tim and Barbara on the night the New 52 bat signal was first turned on. While everyone else is either hopeful or heroic Jason gets peer pressured into robbing a store with his so-called friend. He screws up, his partner in crime kills a woman and then Jason beats him up.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> That reminds me of another story Tynion did, the Batman #0 back up I think. It showed Dick, Jason, Tim and Barbara on the night the New 52 bat signal was first turned on. While everyone else is either hopeful or heroic *Jason gets peer pressured* into robbing a store with his so-called friend. He screws up, his partner in crime kills a woman and then Jason beats him up.


That's by far the thing I hate the most of Tynion's take on Jason. He always writes him like a weak-willed guy that can't take decisions on his own and needs to be told what to do.

----------


## Aahz

> That reminds me of another story Tynion did, the Batman #0 back up I think. It showed Dick, Jason, Tim and Barbara on the night the New 52 bat signal was first turned on. While everyone else is either hopeful or heroic Jason gets peer pressured into robbing a store with his so-called friend. He screws up, his partner in crime kills a woman and then Jason beats him up.


You will find lots of similar stuff in Batfamily stories like the Eternals or Robin War.

Examples were Jason is shown to be competent on the other hand are super rare in those stories.

----------


## Zaresh

> You will find lots of similar stuff in Batfamily stories like the Eternals or Robin War.
> 
> Examples were Jason is shown to be competent on the other hand are super rare in those stories.


Which hurts a little, because people has to remember that he put Bruce in a pinch in UtH, for example. And I don't want to bring The Cult again, but he was the one who held Bruce when he was lost there. He's very, very competent. He just isn't Mister Perfect Score, and that helps in making him him relatable.

But him failing here and there isn't a bad thing itself. Here and there, occasionally. Not always, much less to let others show off, which seems to be what usually happens.

I still don't think that his flashback showed him as weak, though. It was meant to show that Alfred was always there to help him. Finding yourself in a mess could happen any time for a vigilante, in my opinion, no matter how good you are. And then, we don't know if Jason could have freed himself without help: he probably could, but Alfred just arrived before that.

I mean, I think the issue wasn't good, but that wasn't a thing I personally really had a problem with.

----------


## Digifiend

Since when is Red Hood a Titan?

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2020/02...-page-giant-1/

----------


## cc008

I was just reading that article and thinking the same thing.

----------


## Zaresh

> Since when is Red Hood a Titan?
> 
> https://www.bleedingcool.com/2020/02...-page-giant-1/


He had a few guest appearances in NTT about the time COIE happened (he showed up twice, I think?). Technically, he would be, even if he didn't have a team himself, or lasted long. I'm guessing this could be addressed actually, and he would be more a guest character and not a Titan.

And he has had a significative friendship (or companionship more so in the case of Donna) with two or three titans: Kori, Roy and Donna. So, there's that too.

Huh. I may check this one out (or maybe not. It's one of those that don't release as digital copies, right?).

----------


## Digifiend

Yeah, no digital edition, but it should eventually be reprinted in a format that does - the new material from the previous Titans Giant run was reprinted as Titans: Burning Rage.

----------


## Zaresh

> Yeah, no digital edition, but it should eventually be reprinted in a format that does - the new material from the previous Titans Giant run was reprinted as Titans: Burning Rage.


Tsk, I guess I just need to wait them. I doubt this is going to be published here, and I don't know if I'm interested enough to purchase a physical copy by Book Depository (if they sell it to Europe, which is something I don't know either)

(Thanks for the info, btw)

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Jason looks hilariously out of place in that cover. Nice art though.

----------


## Badou

I don't think Jason appears in the issue. Since his face picture isn't listed there with the others, but I dunno. 

I wonder if it was meant to be Roy or Wally originally there on the cover, but they had to switch them out because Roy is dead and Wally is in a different universe now. Although you figure they would have used Garth if that was the case.

----------


## Aahz

> Since when is Red Hood a Titan?


He is in the live action show.

----------


## Zaresh

> I don't think Jason appears in the issue. Since his face picture isn't listed there with the others, but I dunno. 
> 
> I wonder if it was meant to be Roy or Wally originally there on the cover, but they had to switch them out because Roy is dead and Wally is in a different universe now. Although you figure they would have used Garth if that was the case.


He's holding a gun. I think that redrawing a character into a different one can be quite hard, and you would notice if the changed the pose that much. I'm pretty confident this is how the cover was meant to be from the start,  unlike what happened with Dick for Kyle in Titans a year ago (or two? How long has it been?). Besides, Roy's been dead for long and Wally has been traveling the multiverse for six months too. I don't think this cover was commisioned so long ago \o/.

Now, Roy being the reason why Jason is there, as an actual reason to put him in the stories with the NTT's cast... Maybe that's what's happening here.

----------


## Jackalope89

> He's holding a gun. I think that redrawing a character into a different one can be quite hard, and you would notice if the changed the pose that much. I'm pretty confident this is how the cover was meant to be from the start,  unlike what happened with Dick for Kyle in Titans a year ago (or two? How long has it been?). Besides, Roy's been dead for long and Wally has been traveling the multiverse for six months too. I don't think this cover was commisioned so long ago \o/.
> 
> Now, Roy being the reason why Jason is there, as an actual reason to put him in the stories with the NTT's cast... Maybe that's what's happening here.


And Jason is also friends with Starfire.

----------


## Zaresh

> And Jason is also friends with Starfire.


That too. His links with Dick, Donna, Kori and Roy make for a credible reason to show up there, I think.

----------


## Badou

The only original stories in the issue are about Raven though. The other 3 stories are from Starfire's solo, the Super Sons book, and a Titans story from the 70s. Raven is the character Jason has no connection with, so I don't think he actually appears in the story.

----------


## Jackalope89

> The only original stories in the issue are about Raven though. The other 3 stories are from Starfire's solo, the Super Sons book, and a Titans story from the 70s. *Raven is the character Jason has no connection* with, so I don't think he actually appears in the story.


Don't tell that to certain fans of the Teen Titans animated series.

----------


## dietrich

> He's holding a gun. I think that redrawing a character into a different one can be quite hard, and you would notice if the changed the pose that much. I'm pretty confident this is how the cover was meant to be from the start,  unlike what happened with Dick for Kyle in Titans a year ago (or two? How long has it been?). Besides, Roy's been dead for long and Wally has been traveling the multiverse for six months too. I don't think this cover was commisioned so long ago \o/.
> 
> Now, Roy being the reason why Jason is there, as an actual reason to put him in the stories with the NTT's cast... Maybe that's what's happening here.


I don't think it's a redraw either. Most likely an original story done for the Giants. The characters shown in the circles normally feature along with the ones in the main cover art.

These TT giants have always had a TT team never before seen in the comics as the lead original story.

Nevermind just saw Badou's comment. I wrong then

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

So this is a thing







> Batman: The Adventures Continue is part of an initiative to introduce new characters into DC Collectibles Batman: The Animated Series line of toys, with Templeton designing these new additions in Timms style. *So, the comic will feature many familiar faces from the DC Animated Universe like Superman and Lex Luthor and some that never appeared in that world until now, like Jason Todd.*
> 
> Wed gone from Dick Grayson to Tim Drake, and we had left out Jason. What were doing with this is looking at this as a chance to go back and actually acknowledge that was a part of the animated Batmans history, Dini tells EW. For the first time, youre going to see that story and youre going to see what happened in that relationship. So, its our chance to not only to do Jason Todd but also the Red Hood. There are other characters like Azrael, who was popular in the comics around [the time of the show], and Deathstroke, who we never used in the animated series.
> 
> Templeton adds: Its fun that it doesnt feel like we have to deal with the 15 year gap since we told stories with these characters. We can just feel like we just stepped into these things yesterday, because the shows and comics are always out there. They never go away. I didnt want it to feel like theres a big gap and Batman was old and Tim was in his 30s or anything like that. Im really happy it just feels like the next day. (To clarify even further, the comic takes place before the traumatic flashback events in Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker).
> 
> ----
> 
> The first issue also introduces a mystery for the reader: *Who is the mysterious character in the shadows observing all of this? says Templeton. Dini adds, Theres a stranger in town who has staked out the Batman family, who knows them very well, and is watching them from a distance with a mixture of amusement and deep hatred. Thats gonna be a challenge and concern for them at some point. The guy is so good that even though Batman and the others get glimpses of him, they have no idea who he is or what he wants, and thats a mystery for them to solve.*


Another take on UTRH. 

https://ew.com/books/2020/02/13/batm...-ty-templeton/

----------


## Jackalope89

Interesting. 

What's more, Paul Dini and Bruce Timm wanted to use Jason, but were told they couldn't by the higher ups. So, they took Jason's background and slapped "Tim Drake" onto him. So its going to be interesting to see how they do this.

----------


## Frontier

> So this is a thing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another take on UTRH. 
> 
> https://ew.com/books/2020/02/13/batm...-ty-templeton/


This kind of reminds me of when, for the animated movies, there was talk of Jason Todd and Tim showing up even though they skipped over them in the Robin legacy.

----------


## Zaresh

> So this is a thing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another take on UTRH. 
> 
> https://ew.com/books/2020/02/13/batm...-ty-templeton/


Goooooood. This picks my interest a lot. I trust Dini to write fun, good, original stuff; and this needs to be pretty original, because, as everyone knows, Tim in the TAS universe is basically Jason with little changes, and his fate kind of resembles Jason's as well with the torture and brainwashing and then turning into the bad guy himself. And we know that Jason didn't come to be between Dick and Tim, most probably.

Sooo... this Jason, apparently, goes after Tim in the sequence, and appears to be an antagonist from the start? Hum, I wonder what's the spin here for his story. Will this Jason being the stalker the fanbase make Tim be? But not only a stalker, but also makes them dance his mysterious tune and holds a grunge. Maaaaan, I'm just thinking of the many, many twists this story could have when you throw his original story through the window and create a new origin for him that would fit this premise... This can be very, very fun. And Dini, I think he likes Jason and understands what makes him so relatable and fun to read. I'm absolutely sold now. I don't care if it's just a thing for the sake of selling more toys.

Not even Dick's mullet will make me look forward for this any less.

----------


## kaimaciel

Please don't make him look like the toy...

tumblr_a9287bc4279140d5bfb76b9142d881da_2865089d_640.jpg

He has no eyebrows!

----------


## E.Marie

I was just thinking that and hoping he didn't look like that.

----------


## Zaresh

Depends on if it's the same line of toys, I guess. Same line and same batch / year, even. Sometimes, toymakers change their designs from year to year.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Depends on if it's the same line of toys, I guess. Same line and same batch / year, even. Sometimes, toymakers change their designs from year to year.


Its the same line. The comic is even meant as an advertisement for the toys.

----------


## Zaresh

> Its the same line. The comic is even meant as an advertisement for the toys.


Grrrr, so we're stuck with old grumpy browless Jason. Ehh, not sure I like that, but, well, whatever. I can deal with it.

----------


## kaimaciel

> Its the same line. The comic is even meant as an advertisement for the toys.


OH NO! He looks so bad.

----------


## Sergard

Red Hood: Outlaw #43 - finalized cover

----------


## Digifiend

If Bizarro and Artemis are back, why hasn't the book gone back to it's original title?

----------


## Digifiend

> I don't think Jason appears in the issue. Since his face picture isn't listed there with the others, but I dunno. 
> 
> I wonder if it was meant to be Roy or Wally originally there on the cover, but they had to switch them out because Roy is dead and Wally is in a different universe now. Although you figure they would have used Garth if that was the case.


It's alternate universe (all Giants are, except for Batman's which featured Jinny Hex's debut), so they could've used Arsenal or Wally if they wanted to.

----------


## Zaresh

> Red Hood: Outlaw #43 - finalized cover


You know, one of the things that I like more about these covers is that they look old fashioned, with those ballons. I love them, and they make the book stand out a little. It's charming.

Edit:




> If Bizarro and Artemis are back, why hasn't the book gone back to it's original title?


Marketing. It takes some time to change that, and I think this arc is probably be the last one before we have yet another soft-relaunch. Or maybe they will end the run and start to release limited and minis.

Didn't know about the alternative universe thing. Interesting.

----------


## Sergard

DC Comics MAY 2020 Solicitations are out.





RED HOOD: OUTLAW #46
written by SCOTT LOBDELL
art and cover by PAOLO PANTALENA
variant cover by PHILIP TAN
Red Hood, Artemis, and Bizarro have their hands full—and until now they thought the biggest problem they had to face was the uprising of the Untitled during the political protests in Qurac! They’re about to learn this ancient race might very well be the lesser of two evils when the Outlaws square off against one of the oldest and most dangerous threats in all the DC Universe! (We’re not kidding—we know better than to say his name out loud! Yeah, he’s that scary!)
Meanwhile, Artemis has united with Mistress—but at what price? Bizarro meets...his mother? And Jason is forced to choose between Essence and Isabel if he’s going to defeat the Untitled once and for all!
ON SALE 05.27.20
$3.99 US | 32 PAGES
FC | DC
This issue will ship with two covers.



RED HOOD: OUTLAW VOL. 3: GENERATION OUTLAW TP
written by SCOTT LOBDELL
art by R.B. SILVA, TOM DERENICK, and others
cover by V KEN MARION
Leave it to Red Hood to get Lex Luthor’s strangest offer of all: to train the next generation of super-villains! But has Jason Todd fallen so far that he’d take on the task of forging tomorrow’s Legion of Doom or Crime Syndicate—or is he trying to undermine Lex’s machinations? Will the kids of Generation Outlaw trust Jason Todd, and will they ultimately prove to be the end of his old teammates? It’s all been leading to this showdown between the Outlaws and the New Outlaws! Collects Red Hood: Outlaw #37-41.
ON SALE 06.24.20
$16.99 US | 152 PAGES
FC | ISBN: 978-1-77950-252-0

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Huh, none of those artists listed in the TP worked on those issues.

----------


## Sergard

I'm glad that RED HOOD: OUTLAW #46 isn't a "Joker War" tie-in like Batgirl #47.

I've found another First Look on RH:O #43. Seems like the CBR article from last time is missing the first page.

[IMG]https://***********/all-comic.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/RHOUTL_43_A.jpg?fit=1031%2C1566[/IMG]

Little fun fact: When I first saw the high school girls in RH:O #43, I mistook them for a hidden advertisement for Everglade Angels by Scott Lobdell and Blake Northcott. (Everglade Angels is a horror graphic novel about a girls softball team that stumbles into a trap set by a murderous cult.) Funnily enough, Blake Northcott is also mentioned in the May solicitations. She has her DC debut as co-writer on Catwoman #23.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

DC's new timeline has leaked




https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQwN40HX...=png&name=orig

----------


## Zaresh

> I'm glad that RED HOOD: OUTLAW #46 isn't a "Joker War" tie-in like Batgirl #47.


My thoughts exactly. I was looking at the whole set of solicits, and I felt like we fortunately dodged the bullet this time.

----------


## Aahz

@Dark_Tzitzimine thaks.

The time line is still wired. DitF happend after Killing Joke and it is even referenced in the story it self. 

And it looks imo to decompressed.

----------


## Zaresh

I'm pretty sure those are the pictures we all put together from the low quality scans back then, tough. I mean, I can see spots in XXX where we couldn't tell what was written there. If I recall correctly, the user that did those pics was @Tenzen.

(Edit: Still, thanks for posting them, @Dark--in case I have sounded rude)

----------


## Zaresh

So I guess we only get one story and no cover for the Robin special. Well, whatever. At least it's Winick with Nguyen, whose art I enjoy a lot.

Unless I counted wrong those creative names from BC.

----------


## Digifiend

You counted right. They're listed in chronological order by Robin and then era. Four Dick stories, one Jason, two Tim, one Steph, and two Damian, I believe.

----------


## Zaresh

> You counted right. They're listed in chronological order by Robin and then era. Four Dick stories, one Jason, two Tim, one Steph, and two Damian, I believe.


Good that Steph gets her own story. I'm happy for her fans. We are lucky with how much attention we're getting for Jason now, but they only have her in YJ, and that book's cast is huge.

----------


## Swallowtail

> @Dark_Tzitzimine thaks.
> 
> The time line is still wired. DitF happend after Killing Joke and it is even referenced in the story it self. 
> 
> And it looks imo to decompressed.


So DC are now cool with a Dick Grayson who is pushing 40? Bit of a 180 there.

----------


## Restingvoice

> So DC is now cool with a Dick Grayson who is pushing 40? Bit of a 180 there.


Everyone else also aged up, Bruce now was born during World War II but because of time-lapse he's only 60

----------


## Aahz

https://www.deviantart.com/glee-chan...Todd-830495065

----------


## Zaresh

> https://www.deviantart.com/glee-chan...Todd-830495065


Cool. In the TT style. I like it a lot, it's nicely done.

----------


## Sergard

> My thoughts exactly. I was looking at the whole set of solicits, and I felt like we fortunately dodged the bullet this time.


Jason dodged a second bullet with Punchline.


The fanfic author Comicfan has posted a new story: The Masks We Wear. It's a one-shot about Jason and Artemis and takes place after RH:O 42 and before Batman: Pennyworth R.I.P. Artemis isn't very thrilled that Jason returns to Gotham and that he'll meet up with the batfamily.

----------


## Zaresh

> *Jason dodged a second bullet with Punchline.*
> 
> The fanfic author Comicfan has posted a new story: The Masks We Wear. It's a one-shot about Jason and Artemis and takes place after RH:O 42 and before Batman: Pennyworth R.I.P. Artemis isn't very thrilled that Jason returns to Gotham and that he'll meet up with the batfamily.


How much bad it was?

----------


## Sergard

> How much bad it was?


Punchline will appear in NIGHTWING #72 - so basically another Joker War tie-in.
Good thing that Joker doesn't have more associates.

----------


## Zaresh

> Punchline will appear in NIGHTWING #72 - so basically another Joker War tie-in.
> Good thing that Joker doesn't have more associates.


Oh, I though she had already debuted in Batman, or somewhere else.

Oh, yeah, I saw the tie-in bit. Sucks, to be honest. Dick doesn't need an event that doesn't have anything to do with his book to be drawn into his recovering / coming back to his ID plot. It's a bad move, imho. I get that they probably want to gain readers from the tie-in, but I don't think that it's going to help the story a lot, if anything at all. I don't know.

........

I was making some mask templates for Carnival, for the kids I teach, and I thought: I think, for a Jason pre-Crisis that goes antagonistic, it could be an interesting idea, making him a Carnival (as in the Carnival festivity. I think it's called Mardi Gras over there?) themed vigilante identity. It has a circus feel to it, it's implying some satirical meaning, subversion, life and death themes... I don't know, but it could be cool, developing that idea into an actual story. I think I may keep it for my non-fan writings. But, hum...

----------


## Sergard

I've found a Jedi Jason fanart on Twitter by nockuth.






And since there's still no Three Jokers announcement, here a Three Red Hoods fanart by CAPesch.Arts

----------


## Zaresh

That reminds me, *@Sergard*, there seems to be a new small trend in the Batfam fanfics in AO3 about making crossovers with the Star Wars verse. I found one of them like a month ago, it's old, but it seems to have been ressurected recently, but I think it was promising. It was Jason-centric, and it's settled before the prequels, I think. Reminded me of Knights of the Old Republic a bit, too. I liked what I read. In case you or any other wants to check it: Rise (And Try Not to Fall). It's teen aimed, and gen.

----------


## Jackalope89

> That reminds me, *@Sergard*, there seems to be a new small trend in the Batfam fanfics in AO3 about making crossovers with the Star Wars verse. I found one of them like a month ago, it's old, but it seems to have been ressurected recently, but I think it was promising. It was Jason-centric, and it's settled before the prequels, I think. Reminded me of Knights of the Old Republic a bit, too. I liked what I read. In case you or any other wants to check it: Rise (And Try Not to Fall). It's teen aimed, and gen.


Haven't really seen that myself. Its been more the BatFam and Miraculous Lady Bug and Cat Noir, from what I've seen.

----------


## Zaresh

> Haven't really seen that myself. Its been more the BatFam and Miraculous Lady Bug and Cat Noir, from what I've seen.


Yeah, those are a BIG trend. I can't see the appeal; Ladybug is too much like a kid show to me, to be honest (but I have to know about it because the kids love it and love to chat about it. I wish they liked The Dragon Prince better, geeez: I do watch that show!). But I've seen a few new crossover fics with SW since Christmas and I think it may be some smaller trend; and those are more right up my alley. Would love some Persona 5 / Batfam fics too, but I guess that game's time has already passed and none will come from there :/.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Yeah, those are a BIG trend. I can't see the appeal; Ladybug is too much like a kid show to me, to be honest (but I have to know about it because the kids love it and love to chat about it. I wish they liked The Dragon Prince better, geeez: I do watch that show!). But I've seen a few new crossover fics with SW since Christmas and I think it may be some smaller trend; and those are more right up my alley. Would love some Persona 5 / Batfam fics too, but I guess that game's time has already passed and none will come from there :/.


Ladybug isn't bad, I give it that. But the way all those stories go, are basically the opposite in tone of the series.

A different crossover though, that actually kind of works, is Hunters of Justice. A crossover between RWBY (the series in general) and the DC universe (Titans, Justice League, Amazons, even the Bat Family). Its posted both on fanfiction and AO3. What's more, it actually does a good job with the characterizations and interactions. And every few chapters, there's an intermission chapter called "RWBY Chibi" which is simply played up for laughs as the two series learn more about each other.

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1305839...ers-of-Justice

----------


## Zaresh

> Ladybug isn't bad, I give it that. But the way all those stories go, are basically the opposite in tone of the series.
> 
> A different crossover though, that actually kind of works, is Hunters of Justice. A crossover between RWBY (the series in general) and the DC universe (Titans, Justice League, Amazons, even the Bat Family). Its posted both on fanfiction and AO3. What's more, it actually does a good job with the characterizations and interactions. And every few chapters, there's an intermission chapter called "RWBY Chibi" which is simply played up for laughs as the two series learn more about each other.
> 
> https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1305839...ers-of-Justice


Oh, I saw it long ago, and it looks like a nice read. But I know nothing about RWBY, and that's the main reason why I haven't launched a reading attack over it yet.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Oh, I saw it long ago, and it looks like a nice read. But I know nothing about RWBY, and that's the main reason why I haven't launched a reading attack over it yet.


Well, for where the story picks, you would only have to get as far as season 3 (if that). And a good number of those early episodes are less then 20 minutes a piece.

----------


## Sergard

I'm sensing a theme here.

Batman: Pennyworth R.I.P.





Batman & the Outsiders #1/Red Hood and the Outlaws #20

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Sale numbers are out

127. RED HOOD OUTLAW #41 (DC) - 15,835 [131]
129. RED HOOD OUTLAW #42 (DC) - 15,419 [135]

https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...0/2020-01.html

----------


## Zaresh

> Sale numbers are out
> 
> 127. RED HOOD OUTLAW #41 (DC) - 15,835 [131]
> 129. RED HOOD OUTLAW #42 (DC) - 15,419 [135]
> 
> https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...0/2020-01.html


Auch. Why did it so low? It dropped like lead.

----------


## OBrianTallent

> Auch. Why did it so low? It dropped like lead.


I wouldnt say it dropped like lead.  400 copies isnt that big a deal and could have been simply because the variant wasnt popular or ordered?

----------


## Zaresh

> I wouldnt say it dropped like lead.  400 copies isnt that big a deal and could have been simply because the variant wasnt popular or ordered?


Last month (November) it did more than 400 more copies. It almost reached the 22k mark. A drop of 400-500 copies is the average. This though, isn't by far.

Edit: even before that, for October, we were doing more than 17,5k.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

It is entirely possible that the series skipping December and then have both in January led to both issues "cannibalize" each other's sales. We'll need to see how 43 sell.

----------


## Sergard

> It is entirely possible that the series skipping December and then have both in January led to both issues "cannibalize" each other's sales. We'll need to see how 43 sell.


RH:O isn't the only title from the 01/01/20 releases that has such a significant drop.



Little change of subject: I've found more Starwars/Batman fanarts. I don't know if this is really becoming a thing in the fan-community but it definitely looks like fun.

nockuth



And younger versions of Jason by nockuth

----------


## Zaresh

> Little change of subject: I've found more Starwars/Batman fanarts. I don't know if this is really becoming a thing in the fan-community but it definitely looks like fun.
> 
> nockuth
> 
> 
> 
> And younger versions of Jason by nockuth


As a long time SW fan, I supeeapprove of all these. I hope it last tong :3. And I hope they make Jason a mandalorian. It fits him :^D (I think).

----------


## Sergard

Tom Taylor

_Red Hood has never looked so red.

Our first issue of #DCeased #Unkillables hits stores tomorrow._




Jason Fabok

_Batman and Batgirl.  Happy (Bat) Family day to my Canadian friends and family! #ThreeJokers #Batman_

----------


## kaimaciel

Batman Family Is Treating Jason Todd Horribly After Alfred's Death

Wow! I didn't expect CBR to do an article on this.

----------


## cc008

> Batman Family Is Treating Jason Todd Horribly After Alfred's Death
> 
> Wow! I didn't expect CBR to do an article on this.


Link isn't working but I'd love to read that

----------


## Sergard

> Batman Family Is Treating Jason Todd Horribly After Alfred's Death
> 
> Wow! I didn't expect CBR to do an article on this.


I have reread Batman: Pennyworth R.I.P. a few times by now - and my opinion hasn't changed - well, maybe for the worse.

The best I can say is that it made me appreciate Red Hood and the Outlaws #23 (and Red Hood: Outlaw #42, even Red Hood: Outlaw #27) more.

I expected Batman: Pennyworth R.I.P. to be something similar to RHatO #23:
The narrative framework could have been Bruce' speech about Alfred (not just a discarding "The speech is beautiful. It really is.") intertwined with flashbacks by different members of the batfamily, not just Dick, Jason, Tim, Damian and Barbara. I'd have included reactions of allies like Superman, Wonder Woman, etc. too.

I would have preferred "better" stories for the flashbacks. For me, the writers missed the point.

In my eyes, Alfred isn't loved as a character because he's some kind of ubermensch who dresses up as Batman, drives the batmobile, electrocutes criminals, retrieves utensils from the GCPD evidence room like he's the main character from Mission Impossible or effortlessly climbs mountains in his old days.

Alfred is loved because he's literally a supporting character. He's loved because he cares about his family. Things like giving Damian a little life lesson (“You break it, you clean it.”), visiting Jason or celebrating Barbara's one-year-anniversary after recovery show the true Alfred. (Tim’s flashback didn’t have any substance in my eyes and didn’t highlight Alfred. Tynion was more occupied showing how “awesome” Robin Tim was.)

But instead of giving closure regarding Alfred's death, his death was exploited by the writers to create forced drama so that Tynion and Tomasi can push their stories for Batman and Detective Comics. Considering how the characters were treated in this issue, I'm not interested in seeing how Tynion and Tomasi will treat them in their stories, especially not Jason.

I wasn't interested in another batfamily trial like Tynion already wrote in Detective Comics #975: "The trial of Batwoman". Instead of Kate it's now Bruce who's on a trial.
I already didn't like Detective Comics #975 and this here is just too similar:

Barbara is the one who prepares and is the major player in the confrontation.
Dick "speaks from the heart".
Tim is the idealist who only wants to help Bruce.
Jason calls things by their real name: Kate's trial was a "witchhunt" and Bruce' trial a "crucifixion".
Damian doesn't really add anything to the main discussion. (Although Damian has at least some role here).

There is so much forced drama in this issue: (And since Tynion apparently wants to push Barbara and Tim and Tomasi wants to push Damian but they also want to create friction, Jason gets the short end of the stick more often than not and is portrayed as jerk who lashes out at everyone in a way he would never behave in his own series.)

- Jason was told not to come to the public event – for no reason. (In the meanwhile it’s okay that Barbara stands alongside Bruce, Damian and I-don’t-know-who like she is part of the Wayne family.)
- This weird dialogue between Dick and Jason makes no sense. Why would Jason call Dick "not a part of this family anymore"? It's still Dick, just with amnesia. Jason himself had amnesia before (written by Tynion – so don’t tell me the writers didn’t know). And when Bruce had amnesia, Jason still hugged him in RH/A.
- Barbara attacking Jason because he wasn't in the city. (Also blaming an amnesic Dick. Why?)
- Jason blaming Damian for no reason.
- Why would Jason call Tim a "Brownnoser."? Wasn't it said often enough that Tim is one of Jason's favorite people in the batfamily?
- What's going on with this Damian self-pity show? Is DC really trying to tell me that NOT A SINGLE PERSON in the batfamily took the time to talk with Damian? And didn't Damian listen? A few pages before his departure Barbara already said that he wasn't responsible. So what's going on with Damian's "I know what you all are thinking."? And of course, for cheap drama, Damian isn't allowed to hear Jason's "[...]We all know what that feels like right now. We're *all* feeling it.")
- Why is no one following Damian? I know Bruce is his dad but it’s clear that Bruce is suffering and therefore can’t properly care for his kid right now. And when someone is suffering, a family should do what a family does best: help out. So why isn’t Barbara following Damian? She’s the one who's angry about Bruce neglecting Damian (in Detective Comics #975 she was mad because Bruce neglected Cass). Why not Dick? Sure, he has amnesia, but amnesia doesn’t stop him from saying some sappy stuff to Bruce at the end either - or from carrying a photo of the "batfamily" around.
- Bruce already looks like a beaten dog – but that doesn’t stop Barbara from being harsh and insensitive. Some of her points aren’t even really Bruce’ fault.

----------


## Zaresh

> Link isn't working but I'd love to read that


Let's try again?

https://www.cbr.com/batman-family-ja...-alfred-death/

Yey! Now it works.

----------


## Blue22

> I'm sensing a theme here.
> 
> Batman: Pennyworth R.I.P.


I know Jason's standing with the family always seems to be in constant flux but it still felt kinda fucked up to me that he wasn't in this picture :|

----------


## Jackalope89

> I know Jason's standing with the family always seems to be in constant flux but it still felt kinda fucked up to me that he wasn't in this picture :|


Agreed. When I read it, I had to double check to make sure Jason wasn't there. 

Honestly, just more proof Jason has found his real family with the Outlaws.

----------


## deadboy80

> Agreed. When I read it, I had to double check to make sure Jason wasn't there. 
> 
> Honestly, just more proof Jason has found his real family with the Outlaws.


Ya, no doubt. Look, I've always held out hope that he and they would grow closer. It's been shown here and there. However, it seems as though he truly us destined to be thrown from the nest and only called upon when they need to use him. Love Jason, he's one of the best Legacy charecters ever. Hers to Jason!!

----------


## E.Marie

I'm shocked that this was not only written about in an article but that someone that doesn't seem to be following RHO noticed. Jason Todd has been reintroduced to Gotham in his own series, so the family can't be trying to keep him away because of his death. He could have still shown up even if he was still considered dead, but making it so he had to avoid security? That sounds like they actually told guards to keep him out which just feels spiteful. Alfred wanted the family together but nah.




> Honestly, just more proof Jason has found his real family with the Outlaws.


I've been feeling that way for awhile, at this stage he's better off with them and away from the bat family/writers.

----------


## sifighter

Without spoiling anything since it’s still pretty early, Jason not only gets a good chunk of the story in Dceased Unkillables #1 today with what I think are some good moments for him....you know as good as being one of the few survivors of the batfamily in a zombie apocalypse can be.

----------


## Rise

> Without spoiling anything since it’s still pretty early, Jason not only gets a good chunk of the story in Dceased Unkillables #1 today with what I think are some good moments for him....you know as good as being one of the few survivors of the batfamily in a zombie apocalypse can be.


Oh man, it has been such a long time since I read a story with Jason that I have enjoyed. I really missed the guy.

Thank you for recommendation. I hate zombies, but this issue was superb and and Tom did a good job with Jason.

----------


## redmax99

> Without spoiling anything since it’s still pretty early, Jason not only gets a good chunk of the story in Dceased Unkillables #1 today with what I think are some good moments for him....you know as good as being one of the few survivors of the batfamily in a zombie apocalypse can be.


i repect four people in this book jason,bullock,rose and vandal because they knew what time it was and slade i think i breeze thought this book in 3 mintues

----------


## Sergard

DCeased: Unkillables #1 is awesome.

----------


## Zaresh

So, Unkillables #1 was fun. Not great (for me), but very fun. I can't say I like the art, but I can say that I liked the story fine enough. We have Jason being competent, we have him being "savage" (what he did in that car's hood...), we have him with dogs and kids, and we have him being kind of mocked by Cass and Jim once (his face when Jim said that, that was pissed Jason there, and Cass was totally smugfacing). And he was kind of nice too, to the fallen ones.
The part with Slade and Rose was nice too. And, hey, Taylor used Mirror Master, which is a Flash villain that I enjoy because he's a honest piece of sh*t who happens to be fun.

I'll read the next one.

----------


## Sergard

I can't believe that Unkillables has a better photo of the batfamily than Batman: Pennyworth R.I.P..

----------


## Zaresh

> I can't believe that Unkillables has a better photo of the batfamily than Batman: Pennyworth R.I.P..


I guess Taylor has a way better grasp than other writers about how's the ensemble batfamily that fans like to see. And this being an elseworld may help with who we have in and who don't in the current continuity,

----------


## cc008

> I guess Taylor has a way better grasp than other writers about how's the ensemble batfamily that fans like to see. And this being an elseworld may help with who we have in and who don't in the current continuity,


They should have Taylor write Detective Comics. Or Batman for that matter.

----------


## Zaresh

> They should have Taylor write Detective Comics. Or Batman for that matter.


I don't know. He likes a lot to go pretty crazy and bizarre, as far as I can tell. He fits these kind of stories, but, hmmm, putting him in a book that's expected fo feel less relaxed and more serious and restrained like Batman or Tec...

But then again, they let Snyder do his stuff in JL and plenty of other books for the main DCU, so... I guess it could happen.

Now that we're talking about writers, I gave a glance to Russell's work. I wouldn't mind him for Jason if Lobdel decided to left at some point. Actually, I think he could work fine for a few characters and teams if he were interested in writing for them.

----------


## cc008

> I don't know. He likes a lot to go pretty crazy and bizarre, as far as I can tell. He fits these kind of stories, but, hmmm, putting him in a book that's expected fo feel less relaxed and more serious and restrained like Batman or Tec...
> 
> But then again, they let Snyder do his stuff in JL and plenty of other books for the main DCU, so... I guess it could happen.


Perhaps he'd get away with more fantastical stuff in Detective... rather than the main Batman book.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I don't know. He likes a lot to go pretty crazy and bizarre, as far as I can tell. He fits these kind of stories, but, hmmm, putting him in a book that's expected fo feel less relaxed and more serious and restrained like Batman or Tec...
> 
> But then again, they let Snyder do his stuff in JL and plenty of other books for the main DCU, so... I guess it could happen.
> 
> Now that we're talking about writers, I gave a glance to Russell's work. I wouldn't mind him for Jason if Lobdel decided to left at some point. Actually, I think he could work fine for a few characters and teams if he were interested in writing for them.


Well, Lobdell has said he's done at issue 50 (last I heard, anyway), and Taylor would be an interesting choice to take over. Plus he's done something that no other book has really done before; teaming up Jason and Cass. Granted, it took a zombie apocalypse, but still.

----------


## Zaresh

> Well, Lobdell has said he's done at issue 50 (last I heard, anyway), and Taylor would be an interesting choice to take over. Plus he's done something that no other book has really done before; teaming up Jason and Cass. Granted, it took a zombie apocalypse, but still.


You know? I think Taylor is going to get Green Arrow. It's just a hunch, but somehow, I feel like he will. Same as I had the feeling Lobdell was or is wrapping things up in RHATO.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Lobdell didn't say he was done with issue 50, he said that he had been plotted up to issue 50.

----------


## Zaresh

> Lobdell didn't say he was done with issue 50, he said that he had been plotted up to issue 50.


Oh, I see. Then, this is just my wildest guess, but I think that we're going to see the end of this run with issue 50, that would be September this year. And that's when the big shift in the main DCU (the gen rearrangement) happens, right? I would make the run finish there, or at least, put it on hold until all is done.

But I've been wrong before. I was calling Gintama's ending (the manga, I mean) for two whole years before it actually happened, he he.

----------


## Sergard

> Oh, I see. Then, this is just my wildest guess, but I think that we're going to see the end of this run with issue 50, that would be September this year. And that's when the big shift in the main DCU (the gen rearrangement) happens, right? I would make the run finish there, or at least, put it on hold until all is done.
> 
> But I've been wrong before. I was calling Gintama's ending (the manga, I mean) for two whole years before it actually happened, he he.


50 is a good number to end a run - and for a strategic relaunch.
Supergirl ends in May with issue #42 - which feels strange.

Mangas are sometimes unpredictable. I can't remember if it was Fairy Tail, Naruto or Bleach but at least for one of them was the final arc announced - and then it still took at least two years until the series actually ended.

----------


## Sergard

I'm really digging zumaon's artstyle. Beautiful and cute fanarts.

zumaon




zumaon




zumaon

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Tangentially related, but the series former editor is leaving DC.

https://twitter.com/Alex_Antone/stat...94262114914305

----------


## Zaresh

> I'm really digging zumaon's artstyle. Beautiful and cute fanarts.


Beautiful indeed. I love the choice of colours and the texture for lines and colouring.

----------


## Sergard

Dexter Soy





Philip Tan (RH:O #46 variant cover)

----------


## Sergard

V Ken Marion

_My pencils for the cover to Red Hood and the Outlaws #40.  It was an acetate foldover cover so it was drawn in 2 layers_

----------


## AmiMizuno

What do you guys think about him and I know this has been for a while. About him putting on the Bat logo? For a while, he didn't want really anything to do with Bruce mainly. With the others he was cool.

----------


## Zaresh

> What do you guys think about him and I know this has been for a while. About him putting on the Bat logo? For a while, he didn't want really anything to do with Bruce mainly. With the others he was cool.


I feel indifferent. It's a brand for the franchise, and it's marking his origin. We don''t have anything better, so...

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Welp, a major shakeup for DC is coming. 

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...lisher-1280488

----------


## Jackalope89

> Welp, a major shakeup for DC is coming. 
> 
> https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...lisher-1280488


This is pretty big. And a lot depends on who steps in to take his place.

----------


## Zaresh

> Welp, a major shakeup for DC is coming. 
> 
> https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...lisher-1280488


Wow!

I guess those rumours about the whole Gen event finding some troubles has something to do with this? Because I can't say that I saw this coming, to be honest.

This blow is going to have some big impact in the whole house.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Oh boy

----------


## Zaresh

> Oh boy


Well, I guess we lost a supporter. But I think that there is a chance that there are still some more. At least, someone else, a few, fewer. Maybe?

By what people is saying about Didio, he may have had strong opinions, but he still was open to try new things, give things he disagreed with a chance, sometimes at least. People, some people, are already missing that, it seems. We will see what happens with whoever comes to fill his role, if they're the same or less open to do so.
For now, I'm kind of worried about the whole Generations venture. I don't know if we're going to lost our book, I can't guess one way or another; so for now, I'm going to choose not to worry abouy that.

----------


## Aahz

So I was thinking about who the members on Jasons "Generation" in the Aquaman, Green Lantern and Flash Franchise could be, if we stick to the core members (and not to more obscure choises like Bizzaro is imo for Superman). Ideally those characters should be age wise between Fab5 and YJ4 and be somehow troubled.

I think for Aquaman Jackson Hyde seems the best candidate. He is the son of Black manta, is not an iconic member of any other generation, and seems to fall age wise also somewhere in the gap between Dick's and Tims generation.

For the Green Lanters Simon Baz seems the most fitting, he was into illegal racing and stole car, he was put in Guantanamo and was caring a gun as Green Lantern, I'm not really sure how old he is, but I doubt that he is older then Dick's Generation. 
Jessica Cruz could also fit, she seems to be his age and a Green Lantern with anxiety is proaby troubled enough to be e member of the outlaws.

Flash is a little tricky but I think "New Wally" seems the best choise. He is also a juvenile delinquent and the the son a Reverse Flash, which makes him the "dark and edgy" member of the Flash Family and the character was (like Jason) when he was introduced pretty "controversial" (to put it mildly) among fans. 
The thing is of course that his age doesn't really fit and he has been the Flash Family member on Damian's teams in the past years. But the spot in Damians Generation should have probaly been given to Wally's kids (*spoilers:*
who have returned to the main earth this week in the Final issue of Flash Forward
*end of spoilers*), he is at least acting more mature then Bart Allen, and has as "Kid Flash" the mantle that is traditionally above "Impulse".

----------


## Zaresh

Too many characters in that list have similar stories. And some of them have a roo high profile. I don't think age is a big factor for the Outlaws: Artemis is way older, Roy and Kori were older, Biz is technically either way younger or Clark's age, or ageless.

Personally, I see both Simon and Jess too 'clean" for the team (they didn't mess things enough, I mean), even if I would love Jess in there (for the sake of adding some diversity and a female. But really, she's very cool), I suspect Simon would clash with Jason a lot. Edit: but then, they're space cop. They need a good enough reason to work with some "outlaws." Maybe a lantern who are not geen or blue would fit better for the story. Someone "above" law, or a kind of free agentscould work as well, I think.

I like Jackson Hyde and I think he fits the criteria for an Outlaw. He also adds some diversity for the team, and has a personality that I don't think would clash with the others, and his story is working different flaws and issues. Well, he has some "daddy issues", but they're different to Jason's, if we don't add Wallace. Reading his dynamic with the team could be interesting. But maybe, with being YJ show character, his profile is too high for the Outlaws. I think he's a better fit here than in Damian's team, in any case. Edit: but perhaps the Outsiders is a better suited team for him.

I don't like the idea of Wallace for the team. If we add Jackson too, his background could be a bit redundant. He's too naive. Besides, he's identified with Damian's TT and that is going to mean some controversy with his fans. I don't think he would add much to the Outlaws. Hmmm, perhaps the twins would add more now, to be honest, even if they's actual kids.

We could add someone who doesn't fill a JL spot too. It's what happens for Titans, Teen Titans and YJ.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Too many characters in that list have similar stories. And some of them have a roo high profile. I don't think age is a big factor for the Outlaws: Artemis is way older, Roy and Kori were older, Biz is technically either way younger or Clark's age, or ageless.
> 
> Personally, I see both Simon and Jess too 'clean" for the team (they didn't mess things enough, I mean), even if I would love Jess in there (for the sake of adding some diversity and a female. But really, she's very cool), I suspect Simon would clash with Jason a lot. Edit: but then, they're space cop. They need a good enough reason to work with some "outlaws." Maybe a lantern who are not geen or blue would fit better for the story. Someone "above" law, or a kind of free agentscould work as well, I think.
> 
> I like Jackson Hyde and I think he fits the criteria for an Outlaw. He also adds some diversity for the team, and has a personality that I don't think would clash with the others, and his story is working different flaws and issues. Well, he has some "daddy issues", but they're different to Jason's, if we don't add Wallace. Reading his dynamic with the team could be interesting. But maybe, with being YJ show character, his profile is too high for the Outlaws. I think he's a better fit here than in Damian's team, in any case. Edit: but perhaps the Outsiders is a better suited team for him.
> 
> I don't like the idea of Wallace for the team. If we add Jackson too, his background could be a bit redundant. He's too naive. Besides, he's identified with Damian's TT and that is going to mean some controversy with his fans. I don't think he would add much to the Outlaws. Hmmm, perhaps the twins would add more now, to be honest, even if they's actual kids.
> 
> We could add someone who doesn't fill a JL spot too. It's what happens for Titans, Teen Titans and YJ.


Jackson Hyde is as Clean as Simon and Jess. He is a hero 100%, 0% Outlaw which is why he was on Damian's black and white straight cut TT Team and didn't make it on to the current grey blurred lines Team.

----------


## Sergard

> What do you guys think about him and I know this has been for a while. About him putting on the Bat logo? For a while, he didn't want really anything to do with Bruce mainly. With the others he was cool.


Jason wearing the bat logo was a good era. It symbolized redemption and recovery - and Jason went a long way in the last years.
The red bat on Jason's chest was his "Scarlet Letter".
We also got a lot of good designs and merchandise out of it - and a few but nice interactions with other members of the batfamily (I personally would have liked more but I'm also glad for the few we have).
There were also bad interactions that I could have lived without.

Do I think Jason should return to wearing the bat logo? No.
I believe that we have reached a point, where it's better for Jason - and the Outlaws - to not wear the bat logo. It would also be difficult to explain why Jason would choose to return after everything that went down in 2019.




> Welp, a major shakeup for DC is coming. 
> 
> https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...lisher-1280488


And some people are celebrating it like "the evil witch is dead". *sigh*

----------


## Aahz

Like I said I was just looking at the core (or non obscure) characters, at those seem to me the best options out of those (even if they are nor really optimal).

----------


## Zaresh

> Like I said I was just looking at the core (or non obscure) characters, at those seem to me the best options out of those (even if they are nor really optimal).


Oh, ok.
I need to work my reading comprehension.

----------


## Sergard

I don't think that every member of the batfamily needs to have a "counterpart" in the other big families (Super, Wonder, Arrow, Flash, Aqua, Lanterns) just because Bruce does.
Not every franchise is big enough to carry so many characters (Green Arrow doesn't even have an on-going right now, Connor Hawke is still missing and Roy is dead) - and it's getting kind of bland when nearly all teams basically consist of the same "powers". Leave some space for new original characters or smaller franchise families. Dick's Titans and Tim's Young Justice are already too huge, in my eyes. Not even the Justice League can give proper credit to all their members.

If the Outlaws really need some aqua-powered person at some point in time, it's better to create a new character that's not related to the Aquafamily or their rogue gallery. Something like a sea witch could be cool. And if they are in need of a space character, it doesn't need to be some Lantern Corps member. There's more to space than lanterns.

I'd also prefer it if the Outlaws maintain their family character instead of becoming just another team of colleagues/friends in the DC universe. I like the concept of the Outlaws providing a home/sanctuary for other outcasts/misfits. But since the other big families in the DC universe aren't dysfunctional like the batfamily, there aren't really any outcast-types.

In the case of Jackson Hyde, I'd actually like to see him on a completely new team (not some iteration of an already existing team) together with meta-humans like Duke Thomas, Caden Park, Sideways, etc.
In general, I'm not a fan of age-restricted team names like "Teen Titans" or "Young Justice". Although some adult teams have a similar problem. You're Dick's age? You become a Titan. You're Bruce' age? Welcome to the Justice League.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Jason will go back to the red bat sooner or later, it is his symbol now and is used everywhere to market him, even in places like Injustice where he doesn't wear a logo, the red bat is still used to identify him.

And the Batman corner of the DCU is such a mess now thanks to King that I simply won't put any serious thought on the poorly written interactions we've gotten lately.

----------


## E.Marie

I don't see age or lawfulness being a obstacle for being a member of the Outlaws. New members might not even fit into the Flash, Green Lantern, etc., criteria. Lobdell seems to want to put Creeper on the team and we've seen him appear twice as an Outlaw in Bizarro's dream and the comic Ma Gunn read. He would be fun to have and not just because of his history with Artemis. The only potential problem might be how he reminds Jason of Joker. It's come up a few times in universe with people commenting on the similarities.

I'd like to see some variety with the abilities of any new teammate though.

----------


## Sergard

> Jason will go back to the red bat sooner or later, it is his symbol now and is used everywhere to market him, even in places like Injustice where he doesn't wear a logo, the red bat is still used to identify him.
> 
> And the Batman corner of the DCU is such a mess now thanks to King that I simply won't put any serious thought on the poorly written interactions we've gotten lately.


Tom King isn't the first writer of his kind and won't be the last. Batman: Pennyworth R.I.P. by Tomasi and Tynion only looks like the start of the next wave of poorly written interactions because the writers were too occupied shitting on King's run and setting the stage for their own upcoming stories. They exactly did what I hate the most about King's run: putting characters into categories, making characters out-of-character "for the sake" of the story/soap opera they want to write, too much unnecessary drama and Alfred getting the short end of the stick again.

Not that I expected much.

As I already mentioned once or twice, I hated Tynion's "Trial of Batwoman". 
And Tomasi wrote a psychopathic Damian in "Batman and  Robin" who put a crowbar in Jason's bed in order to exploit his trauma while also making fun of Jason's death and victim-blaming him.

But I still expected better from Tynion and Tomasi.

----------


## Aahz

> But I still expected better from Tynion and Tomasi.


The odd thing is both have written Books staring Jason in the past. Tynion wrote RHatO for roughly a year and Thomasi wrote the Arkham Knight Comics.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

And both books were either mediocre or bad. Tynion and Tomasi write stories that are crowd-pleaser but lack any substance or depth. And they have a pretty poor grasp on Jason's character.

----------


## Sergard

Tynion and Tomasi have both written a lot of bat characters.
Didn't help with Batman: Pennyworth R.I.P.. Some characters aren't even written the same way by the writers like they were written in other titles.
Character-inconsistency because of different writers is already annoying - but character-inconsistency under the same writer? *sigh*

----------


## Sergard

Lol.

DCs Artist Alley Line Debuts New Statues, Figures

----------


## Restingvoice

> Lol.
> 
> DC’s Artist Alley Line Debuts New Statues, Figures


wow, even in a joke statue Tim is left out

----------


## Zaresh

> Lol.
> 
> DC’s Artist Alley Line Debuts New Statues, Figures


Ha ha ha ha XD
Loving it.




> wow, even in a joke statue Tim is left out


Oh, you're right. Weird.

----------


## Sergard

> wow, even in a joke statue Tim is left out


I noticed it too.
It would be funny if Tim is behind the cape relaxing on Bruce' foot while the others are trying to carry Batman.

----------


## Zaresh

> I noticed it too.
> It would be funny if Tim is behind the cape relaxing on Bruce' foot while the others are trying to carry Batman.


Oh, I can see it. Or, well, he could be holding Bruce by the foot. It has space enough to it behind the cape.

----------


## Celgress

> Lol.
> 
> DC’s Artist Alley Line Debuts New Statues, Figures


ROFLMAO, this is too just too much...  :Big Grin:

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Via Bleeding Cool




> Kevin Shinick is an Emmy award winning writer as well as an actor, director and multiple Annie award-winning producer. Working alongside George Lucas, directing Stan Lee, collaborating with the rock band KISS and helping Mike Tyson solve a few mysteries, Shinick is perhaps best known for his work on the shows Robot Chicken and MAD, the animated series he created for Cartoon Network. He's also voiced characters on The Cleveland Show, MAD, Robot Chicken, Ugly Americans, Titan Maximum and The Looney Tunes Show. As an actor, he has performed in over a half a dozen Broadway shows, numerous TV and film projects and as the host of the Emmy award-winning series, Where In Time Is Carmen Sandiego?
> 
> ----
> 
> *One comic I hear he might be working in would involve Jason Todd… but that's up in the air right now.*


https://www.bleedingcool.com/2020/02...5e-Gk_S3S_A8sA

----------


## Zaresh

Can't open BC here unless I want a premature death by lag.

Going by your quote, it may be true, that they're looking for talent in other industries, like the cartoons one. I remember reading so when Didio left, somewhere, can't remember where; but I wasn't expecting them to find people there this fast.

I'm guessing this may be a book for after the reboot/relaunch/whatever Gen5.

----------


## Aahz

Could be that Lobdells time as main Writer of Red Hood is ending, if you count all 3 incarnations of the book he has been on on it for more then 80 issues (not counting specials) at this point, when the current story arc concludes he will have more Red Hood Issues than King has issues of Batman (I think he has allready more issues than Dixon had on Nightwing and Gail Simone had on Birds of Prey).

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Not counting the specials, Issue 45 would be the 100th issue of Red Hood.

----------


## Aahz

> Not counting the specials, Issue 45 would be the 100th issue of Red Hood.


Are You counting the Rebirth and the #0 Issue (I put them under specials)?

But either way I think it is still great that the book has managed to keep going since Flashpoint, apparat from RHatO I think only the books of the Big Six, Nightwing, Batgirl, the main Justice League League pulled that of and maybe the (Teen) Titans depending how you count.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

By specials, I am only not counting the Annuals.

----------


## Sergard

Here's a beautiful DCeased: Unkillables inspired artwork by

Travis Mercer



Probably also inspired by Unkillables: Jason and Ace by @ichijiku3105



So cute. I love Jason and dogs. Can we have a universe where Jason is a dog-sitter?

----------


## Sergard

source: toyark







Also: little clip by Paul Harding showcasing the DCeased figures.

_"New DCeased reveals at Toy Fair from me and DC Direct. Including Batgirl, Red Hood, Nightwing and Deathstroke."_

----------


## Sergard

CBR article: Fabok Knows When Batman: Three Jokers #1 Comes Out - But He Wont Tell You

And art stuff from Twitter:

Jason Fabok

_"I promised a little tease of a Joker panel today from #threejokers.  So here is a tiny little snippit of a panel.  Have a great friday!"_



Brad Anderson

_"@geoffjohns Three Jokers one, @JasonFabok is drawing his butt off in these pages, I am deeeeep into it, and have hard deadlines, so here we go. Grinning face"_

----------


## Zaresh

Very, very nice colour work.

----------


## Sergard

A hilarious Valentine's Day fanart by inkydandy with the Dark Trinity and Kyle Rayner:

----------


## Sergard

inkydandy (continuation)

----------


## Sergard

> Found this online, no idea if is legit.


As far as I recall, this hasn't been mentioned yet (sorry if this is already known):

Apparently that's a Pop! Moments - Red Hood vs. Deathstroke (Does this count as legit source? I've also seen facebook posts on Funko fanpages.).

----------


## Zaresh

Kind of off topic, for the sake of sharing some fun I had.

Today, I started a new game (my first one) of "Pathfinder: Kingmaker". This game looks nice, reminds me of Baldur's Gate a ton--which is absolutely logical, but has a few design choices that I love, like adding some gamebook elements in the gameplay; and it's still a bit buggy--which doesn't make sense. But well, what can you do, right? Still, so far, so good.

but I'll go to the reason why I'm telling you this little piece of a journal now.

I've been thinking about playing with a half-orc for a while. In this kind of fantasy games, I usually go with human wizards, rogues or rangers; but this time, I wanted to try something different. Turns out, the background of half-orcs is way, way more interesting that what I was expecting, and really appeals to my tastes. I wonder why not more people try to roleplaying with one of them: so much potencial for a good story. Also, they're pretty versatile and badass, and sturdy: they really die hard.

The more I was tinkering with the clases and abilities, the more an idea started to form in my mind: I was going to play with Jason as an half-orc in my first game. Or, well, a quarter-orc, but I can't put that in the game. He goes by the name of Hood, it's a Deliverer (first class) Eldritch Scoundrel (second class; I wasn't sure about this one but I ended choosing it because I liked the set of skills) who worships Desna, because Deliverer is a religious kind of hitman (I choose this one because its freedom and luck aspect, alongside alignment. But Sarenrae was probably more fitting, I guess). He's chaotic good, but sometimes I choose chaotic neutral answers if they feel suitable.

Not the most accurate, I guess; but it will be fun to play.

*Have you ever created a PJ in any game who's been inspired or modelled after Jason?* If you play any RPG-like game, I mean. I wonder. I do this sometimes, with Jason or any other of the characters that I love, if I don't have a clear idea for my character background and the game doesn't give me any other that catches* my interest well enough.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Kind of off topic, for the sake of sharing some fun I had.
> 
> Today, I started a new game (my first one) of "Pathfinder: Kingmaker". This game looks nice, reminds me of Baldur's Gate a ton--which is absolutely logical, but has a few design choices that I love, like adding some gamebook elements in the gameplay; and it's still a bit buggy--which doesn't make sense. But well, what can you do, right? Still, so far, so good.
> 
> but I'll go to the reason why I'm telling you this little piece of a journal now.
> 
> I've been thinking about playing with a half-orc for a while. In this kind of fantasy games, I usually go with human wizards, rogues or rangers; but this time, I wanted to try something different. Turns out, the background of half-orcs is way, way more interesting that what I was expecting, and really appeals to my tastes. I wonder why not more people try to roleplaying with one of them: so much potencial for a good story. Also, they're pretty versatile and badass, and sturdy: they really die hard.
> 
> The more I was tinkering with the clases and abilities, the more an idea started to form in my mind: I was going to play with Jason as an half-orc in my first game. Or, well, a quarter-orc, but I can't put that in the game. He goes by the name of Hood, it's a Deliverer (first class) Eldritch Scoundrel (second class; I wasn't sure about this one but I ended choosing it because I liked the set of skills) who worships Desna, because Deliverer is a religious kind of hitman (I choose this one because its freedom and luck aspect, alongside alignment. But Sarenrae was probably more fitting, I guess). He's chaotic good, but sometimes I choose chaotic neutral answers if they feel suitable.
> ...


I may or may not have done something similar in Fallout 4 with mods that included the Red Hood helmet...

----------


## Sergard

I don't play RPG-like games but I used to nickname my Pokemons after characters I liked - and if my favorite characters had changed, I just started the game all over.
And I've done personality quizzes by answering questions like Jason would (in my opinion).
Jason is a Gryffindor, by the way. I even tried to rig the quiz so that Jason is a Ravenclaw - he still was a Gryffindor.

----------


## Zaresh

> I may or may not have done something similar in Fallout 4 with mods that included the Red Hood helmet...


There is a Red Hood helmet mood? Huh, I'll make a note about that one for when I play that game again.




> I don't play RPG-like games but I used to nickname my Pokemons after characters I liked - and if my favorite characters had changed, I just started the game all over.
> And I've done personality quizzes by answering questions like Jason would (in my opinion).
> Jason is a Gryffindor, by the way. I even tried to rig the quiz so that Jason is a Ravenclaw - he still was a Gryffindor.


Well, it's fitting I guess. As far as I know, it's the house that highlights heroic behaviour and courage the most. But to be honest, my knowledge about Harry Potter is shallow.

----------


## Sergard

source: that_artemis_fan

_SPOILER ALERT FOR RHATO 44, READ TO FIND OUT WHY I'M POSTING ONLY IF YOU DON'T MIND SPOILERS:

Alright y'all, this is a sneak peak of Artemis in RHATO 44 when they go undercover! Yes, she has black hair to hide her identity since her red hair is such an iconic feature to her. It will only be temporary obviously, maybe one or two issues. That is why we don't see Artemis in the covers of 44 or 45. It was done to prevent spoiling it! I think she will be back with the super long red ponytail we all love to see her with and are waiting to see return in RHATO 46.

This sneak peek was shared by @arifprianto_arf in their stories and I noticed it was the same outfit that @paolo_pantalena shared some time back with the title "Artemis". So there you go, you got the scoop on Artemis!_



mentioned artwork by Paolo Pantalena:




Also by Paolo Pantalena (posted 4 days ago):

_Excited for the new Red Hood issue?_

----------


## Sergard

Outlines from RH:O #43 by ChrisCross. (source)

_The work I did for Red Hood:The Outlaw l, formerly RedHood and the Outlaws, number 43 was really fun and was like jumping into cold water and getting used to a new environment in A HURRY. lol. I want another issue sometime and to work with the great Scott Hanna again. The colorist Arif Prianto has an interesting palette. Need this colorist on more of my work. Mental note._

----------


## Sergard

More outlines from RH:O #43 by ChrisCross.

part 1



part 2

----------


## Jackalope89

Here's another fanfic. A short one with only 2 chapters scheduled, with the other supposed to be coming tomorrow. The summary is; Jason, only having been Robin for a few months, left his book on Bruce's spaceship. Bruce has a Justice League meeting, so Jason "sneaks" aboard the Watchtower.

https://archiveofourown.org/works/22...pters/54924241

A fluff piece, really.

Another one I'm following, is a crossover between DC and Miraculous Ladybug. The characters aren't really all that much in character, but the premise is that Marinette is Jason's little sister that was separated from him when they were both quite young. It took about 15-16 chapters before we really got to the real crossover. That said; the author pumps out 1-2 chapters (about 2k words each) a day. Not sure how much interest there is in such a story though here.

----------


## Sergard

DC Universe

_"And the award for 2020’s Sexiest Man of DC Universe goes to…
https://yourdcu.com/dcusxm2020"_





Dexter Soy

_Batman vs Robin_

----------


## Sergard

Pete Woods (poll is already closed)

x Red Hoodie
x Red Helmet

_"Honest answers please. I won’t be offended. I’m curious. Do you like the Red Hoodie design or do you prefer traditional Red Helmet for Jason Todd? When the poll is over I’ll share some thoughts of my own.
(I’ve got a pretty good idea how this poll will turn out.)"_

Pete Woods' thoughts

_60/40 in favor of the helmet look. I’m surprised it didn’t do better. People hate change. I guess the hoodie is growing on people!
As promised here’s a look at the design process. (This appeared in a DC Nation issue so if you got that issue this will be familiar.) 1/15

A note before I get started. I’ll talk about what I wanted, what I thought, & give my opinion on. Please don’t interpret that as me complaining that my creative vision was being ignored or that I think someone made a mistake. 2/15

Comic books are team effort & we work on characters that we don’t own. Red Hood belongs to DC & DC can do whatever they like with him. If they told me to put him in a green clown suit then my job would be to draw Red Hood in a green clown suit. That’s how this works. 3/15

At the time I was tapped to draw Red Hood was a team adventure book staring Bizarro, Artemis, & Red Hood so that was my mindset going in. This quick sketch was me trying to capture the feel & look I wanted going in. An energetic, poppy style with a funky palette. 4/15_



_The first & last panels of this page were also me figuring out the look I wanted to go with (the middle panel was added later as a proof-of-concept as we neared final costume design.) Again- the colors were too cinematic for the look DC wanted so I had to make some changes. 5/15_



_I found out quickly that to book was going to be pushed in a darker direction. The team adventure thing was going away & the book was going to become a solo series. Jason was going walkabout and he was becoming more violent. 6/15

I was a big fan of the Arkham games’ take on Jason so that was my jumping off point. I came up with this initial sketch that leaned heavily into that design. 7/15_



_Story-wise we needed a bigger change from the helmet look though. Jason was breaking ties with Batman. He was going to be on his own. Stripped down. No protection. I always really liked the helmet costume but the story called for a big change.Time to adjust my thinking. 8/15

At this point there was lot’s of communication between Scott, Rob Levin, & the higher-ups at DC. We were making big changes to a character people have strong feelings about so we wanted to get things right. 9/15_

----------


## Sergard

Pete Woods' thoughts (continuation)

_They saidGo crazy so I did. You can see in these designs we go from motorcycle gang to street thug to ninja to Assassins Creed influence to Lawrence of Arabia. Trying everything. I still had a hard time letting go of the helmet as you can see. 10/15_

----------


## Sergard

Pete Woods' thoughts (continuation)

_We started to narrow things down in this batch & eventually decided on a variation of C. 11/15_



_The logo was vary difficult to decide on. I tried a lot of ideas & frankly all of them were cheesy & overcomplicated. We needed to lose the Bat connection, but what single, simple image represents Red Hood? 12/15_



_It was about 2 weeks going back & forth until the idea hit to do a stylized version of Jasons eyes/mask looking out from under his hood ("B" in this image.). It went over great. I think I got approval in under 2 hours. 13/15_

----------


## Sergard

Pete Woods' thoughts (conclusion)

_With all the elements in place I did the final design sketch & that was that. 14/15_



_I didnt expect this design to remain after the initial Outlaw storyline. Its great to see Jason still in the costume. I love seeing so many artists take a crack at it. I think it works & makes sense for the Jason. Weve gotta shake things up a bit from time to time. 15/15_

----------


## Jackalope89

> Pete Woods' thoughts (continuation)
> 
> _They said“Go crazy“ so I did. You can see in these designs we go from motorcycle gang to street thug to ninja to Assassin’s Creed influence to Lawrence of Arabia. Trying everything. I still had a hard time letting go of the helmet as you can see. 10/15_


Second row's J and L are basically a recolored Deathstroke. Bottom row's E I kind of like though.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Woods' dissertation about the look and his satisfaction on still being used, is funny and ironic to me in the light that the official banner celebrating Jason as the sexiest man in the DCU _doesn't use the hoodie look at all._

PS. Logo is still stupid.

----------


## Sergard

Paolo Pantalena

_Red hood and the outlaws cover
Me, @scottylobdell and @arifprianto_arf are having so much fun_




Paolo Pantalena

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

So we're finally back to the Hundred Acres of All and the Chamber of All.

----------


## Aahz

https://nicknaysayer.tumblr.com/

----------


## Sergard

> https://nicknaysayer.tumblr.com/


I've seen the artwork before. It's nice.  :Big Grin: 

Although at this point in time I truly believe that Jason would be better off without the "core batfamily".
Jason is reaching 10 years of redemption next year (if you start counting with New52 in 2011). 
In comparison, the last time Jason was blamed for his own death, attacked and insulted by one of the "core family" (for no good reason): 2019
This is garbage.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Blame the writers, not the characters.

----------


## Sergard

> Blame the writers, not the characters.


Kinda hard when the list of writers is getting longer and longer, including prominent names like Morrison, King, Bendis, Tomasi and Tynion.
For some bat characters I can't even remember the last time Jason and them had a good moment together - outside of RHatO.
In RHatO you have a nice annual with Jason and Dick.
In RHatO you have Jason and Bruce reconciling.
In RHatO you have Jason and Batwoman teaming up to save a whole city.
In RHatO you have Jason mentioning his "four brothers".
Outside of RHatO: burning pile of garbage

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Morrison was the first writer outside of Lobdell to depict Jason in friendly terms with the rest of the family, and he was in fact, one of the first writers to speak in favor of Jason's redemption.

Every single time that Jason gets thrown under a bus is due to Batman's main writer deciding to shake the status quo and destroy the Bat-family for shock value and the rest of the writers being forced to follow through with that.

King is the worst offender of this since the man simply doesn't get the characters at all.

----------


## Sergard

Jason Fabok

_HA!_




And a little off-topic but I know there are a lot of Artemis fans in this thread:

Dima Ivanov

_#Artemis commission for @overseer195


this one's a celebratory piece for the 25th anniversary of Artemis of Bana-Mighdall (which technically was last year, but
Shushing face
)

aaand it's an homage to #WonderWoman
 750 cover by  @artgerm_




And here's another fanart of Jason's favorite Amazon by Paz. Can we please have this Artemis back in comics?

----------


## Zaresh

If they're making her have black hair, maybe they with get the chance and change it back to her* usual hair style one that story is finished. Her hair is magical, or so said Lobdell  :Big Grin: .

Pretty, pretty art :3.

----------


## Sergard

> If they're making her have black hair, maybe they with get the chance and change it back to his usual hair style one that story is finished. Her hair is magical, or so said Lobdell .
> 
> Pretty, pretty art :3.


According to @that_artemis_fan, Artemis' classic Rebirth look will be back in #46 - and the cover for #47 also shows Artemis with her Rebirth look.

On another note, Paolo Pantalena has posted a new RH:O panel:

_Jason Todd will save us
Sunday detail page from upcoming issue_

----------


## Jackalope89

Jason Todd: Unhailed Savior of the World!

----------


## Sergard

> Jason Todd: Unhailed Savior of the World!


DC should do a crossover between Outlaws and Doom Patrol. I'm sensing some common themes.

Is "hail" a verb normally used in English? I would have guessed that it was negatively impacted thanks to the Nazi salute, you know: "Hail Hitler", "Hail, my leader" or "Hail victory!".

Which reminds me that Jason fought Captain Nazi in Batman: Under the Hood.

----------


## Jackalope89

> DC should do a crossover between Outlaws and Doom Patrol. I'm sensing some common themes.
> 
> Is "hail" a verb normally used in English? I would have guessed that it was negatively impacted thanks to the Nazi salute, you know: "Hail Hitler", "Hail, my leader" or "Hail victory!".
> 
> Which reminds me that Jason fought Captain Nazi in Batman: Under the Hood.


"Hail" isn't. "Heil" (pronounced hi-l) is though. If "hail" was, well, it would make certain weather system that pops up every so often rather awkward too. Besides, "Hail to the Chief," is the song for the President (whomever is in office).

----------


## Sergard

> "Hail" isn't. "Heil" (pronounced hi-l) is though. If "hail" was, well, it would make certain weather system that pops up every so often rather awkward too. Besides, "Hail to the Chief," is the song for the President (whomever is in office).


Sooo ... Hail Hitler is okay but Heil Hitler is not?
I wonder how an encounter between Captain Grandpa and Captain Nazi would look like.
And yes, I know he's called Captain Glory but I always remember Grandpa first and then I remember that his real name also starts with G ... and then I remember Glory.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Sooo ... Hail Hitler is okay but Heil Hitler is not?
> I wonder how an encounter between Captain Grandpa and Captain Nazi would look like.
> And yes, I know he's called Captain Glory but I always remember Grandpa first and then I remember that his real name also starts with G ... and then I remember Glory.


Except for a certain group of, lets say, idiots, no one in English speaking countries says, "Heil Hitler" without it being sarcastic or the like (mocking Nazis and their ilk). Even the translation isn't really used by the idiots. They prefer the German, "Heil". 

Outside of making fun of Nazis, its a big taboo (to say the least).

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

https://www.newsarama.com/49337-john...this-june.html

https://ew.com/books/geoff-johns-jas...-jokers-comic/

Three Jokers first issue is coming in June 17th.

----------


## Zaresh

> https://www.newsarama.com/49337-john...this-june.html
> 
> https://ew.com/books/geoff-johns-jas...-jokers-comic/
> 
> Three Jokers first issue is coming in June 17th.


Yay!
June 17th is still Spring, technically.
My guesses weren't wrong by much.

----------


## Jackalope89

> https://www.newsarama.com/49337-john...this-june.html
> 
> https://ew.com/books/geoff-johns-jas...-jokers-comic/
> 
> Three Jokers first issue is coming in June 17th.


Yes, finally! I won't even question if its in continuity, because I've been looking forward to this!

----------


## Aahz

Alfred seems to be in it.

----------


## Sergard

> Yay!
> June 17th is still Spring, technically.
> My guesses weren't wrong by much.


Hehe.  :Big Grin:  True.
Let's hope Three Jokers will end in summer (of 2020  :Wink: ).





> Alfred seems to be in it.


Yep. And I'm looking forward to Alfred. Even if he's just a secondary character.
But it already makes me happy that he's alive in Three Jokers.
Alfred deserves to live.

----------


## Sergard

Thanks to the Robin anniversary, there are many beautiful and cute Robin fanarts floating around on Twitter and Co..

Sa Lightning Strikes



Jarrulus




posa

----------


## Sergard

liz



liz



Yaz (reverse batfamily)

----------


## Zaresh

> Thanks to the Robin anniversary, there are many beautiful and cute Robin fanarts floating around on Twitter and Co..
> 
> Sa Lightning Strikes
> 
> 
> 
> Jarrulus
> 
> 
> ...


These three are great.
And the colour scheme of Robin is such an eye-catcher.

----------


## Sergard

More Robins.

kuroiyagi




yuki




3eden

----------


## Sergard

This is cute. (source)

----------


## Sergard

Fan-made Red Ronin figurine.

Kwest Custom Art

_Update on my #redhood print. Let me know your thoughts.._

----------


## Sergard

Kwest Custom Art (continuation)




Also this:

Alireza kh

_Red hood from batman Arkham Knight universe
wip_

----------


## Zaresh

I just remembered, Dick got banned from  that contest because he always wins, if I'm not mistaken (I think I read this in some tweet). Which makes that strip funnier.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I just remembered, Dick got banned from  that contest because he always wins, if I'm not mistaken (I think I read this in some tweet). Which makes that strip funnier.


Its little comic strips like that, that just hit the right spot.

----------


## Sergard

> I just remembered, Dick got banned from  that contest because he always wins, if I'm not mistaken (I think I read this in some tweet). Which makes that strip funnier.


Dick probably signed up Tim too ... and maybe some others. Can't imagine that someone like Deathstroke would sign up.
Scratch that. Dick probably secretly orchestrate the whole vote. Dick is the Tyra Banks of "DC's next Sexiest Man".

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

https://twitter.com/TomTaylorMade/st...55048445026304

DCeased 2 is coming, and Taylor is using the hashtag #DeadPlanet. Coupled with what it seems older Jon and Damian, I'm guessing Jason won't make it in Unkillables.

----------


## Sergard

> https://twitter.com/TomTaylorMade/st...55048445026304
> 
> DCeased 2 is coming, and Taylor is using the hashtag #DeadPlanet. Coupled with what it seems older Jon and Damian, I'm guessing Jason won't make it in Unkillables.


Yeah, I think so too. But considering that Taylor generally kills a lot of people, it's not surprising. Everyone in Unkillables is probably going to die.
Seems like I'm going to stop following the DCeased universe after Unkillables.

----------


## sifighter

I think this gonna be a wait and see for Jason, I mean Swamp Thing is on that cover and he hasn’t shown up in either series or even the one-shot. Then again it is DCeased so...well while I wanna hope if they can kill Bruce, Dick, Tim, Barbara, Kate, and Selena things might not go Jason’s way.

----------


## Sergard

> I think this gonna be a wait and see for Jason, I mean Swamp Thing is on that cover and he hasnt shown up in either series or even the one-shot. Then again it is DCeased so...well while I wanna hope if they can kill Bruce, Dick, Tim, Barbara, Kate, and Selena things might not go Jasons way.


Well, we will know for sure in April if Jason, Cass and Co. survive or not.
And if Slade's group and Jason's group will meet or not.
It would be funny if they met and survived all those years.
This could be a universe where Jason and Rose become a couple (since it seems like Artemis doesn't exist in this universe) - and then Jason would probably have to fear Slade more than the zombies.  :Wink:

----------


## Rac7d*

> Well, we will know for sure in April if Jason, Cass and Co. survive or not.
> And if Slade's group and Jason's group will meet or not.
> It would be funny if they met and survived all those years.
> This could be a universe where Jason and Rose become a couple (since it seems like Artemis doesn't exist in this universe) - and then Jason would probably have to fear Slade more than the zombies.


Are they not the left behinds on a earth that is gonna die when Superman finishes eating the sun

----------


## sifighter

> Are they not the left behinds on a earth that is gonna die when Superman finishes eating the sun


Right now the Unkillables story is happening around the same time as the first series, so we don’t know if any of the characters we follow either die, stay on the dying earth like Harley and Ivy, or make it to the arms leaving the planet...or escape to another dimension like Dr. Fate, Zatanna, and John Constantine did in that one-shot

----------


## Sergard

Theoretically, maybe Jason could flee to the Chamber of All, I think it's in a different dimension (in case Jason was trained by the All-Caste in this universe). But not everyone is allowed to enter.
And Jason is definitely not leaving a bunch of orphans behind. So we'll probably not only see Jason die but also a lot of kids.

----------


## Sergard

I can't remember the last time I've seen a Gotham City Garage fanart. It's sad that there are so few. I like biker Jason.

fishtre



used reference:



fishtre also drew a Red Lantern Jason this year (probably inspired by Flash Forward). It's nice. I generally like the style of the artist. It's cute.

----------


## Digifiend

What if Jason lived?
https://www.polygon.com/2020/3/10/21...ublished-pages

----------


## Jackalope89



----------


## adrikito

> I can't remember the last time I've seen a Gotham City Garage fanart. It's sad that there are so few. I like biker Jason.
> 
> fishtre
> 
> 
> 
> used reference:
> 
> 
> ...


HAHAHAHAHA.. Now I understand why I was thinking.. I saw this before..

I saw all Hokuto serie between 2019-2020

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Jason might show up in Nightwing during Joker War.

NIGHTWING #73 – On sale June 17, 2020

The Joker knows Dick Grayson is Nightwing—and the plans he’s set in motion in will haunt Batman forever. Under the control of The Joker’s mysterious ally Punchline, Nightwing must battle the people he once loved most: Batgirl, the Robins, and…himself.

Written by DAN JURGENS

Art by RONAN CLIQUET

Cover by TRAVIS MOORE

Variant cover by ALAN QUAH

$3.99 US | 32 PAGES

FC | DC

https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2020/0...allies-in-june

----------


## Sergard

> What if Jason lived?
> https://www.polygon.com/2020/3/10/21...ublished-pages


Someone on Reddit posted another part.

----------


## Zaresh

> Jason might show up in Nightwing during Joker War.
> 
> NIGHTWING #73  On sale June 17, 2020
> 
> The Joker knows Dick Grayson is Nightwingand the plans hes set in motion in will haunt Batman forever. Under the control of The Jokers mysterious ally Punchline, Nightwing must battle the people he once loved most: Batgirl, the Robins, andhimself.
> 
> Written by DAN JURGENS
> 
> Art by RONAN CLIQUET
> ...


Weird.

Edit: nevermind. Moore is only doing the cover  :Frown:

----------


## Sergard

> Jason might show up in Nightwing during Joker War.
> 
> NIGHTWING #73  On sale June 17, 2020
> 
> The Joker knows Dick Grayson is Nightwingand the plans hes set in motion in will haunt Batman forever. Under the control of The Jokers mysterious ally Punchline, Nightwing must battle the people he once loved most: Batgirl, the Robins, andhimself.
> 
> Written by DAN JURGENS
> 
> Art by RONAN CLIQUET
> ...


Is Punchline a meta?
I don't like the sound of it.
I wished Jason wasn't involved in Joker War.
I already hated his depiction in Batman: Pennyworth R.I.P.

----------


## Sergard

DCeased: Unkillables #2 Preview is out.

----------


## sifighter

> DCeased: Unkillables #2 Preview is out.


So from the looks of it they didn't get on the Arks off world...given what we know about the end of DCeased that is not good. Unless a miracle happens I don't think Jason or Cassandra are making it to the sequel. Then again if Constantine can make it out okay maybe luck will be on their side.

Although I'm surprised three weeks in and Jason hasn't already just murdered all the zombies in the other room.

----------


## Zaresh

> DCeased: Unkillables #2 Preview is out.


*Facepalm

I don't know, Jim. Maybe we could use some bus? Sure there will be some left in the neighbourhood* that we can drive* back with some scout mission?

Or something.

----------


## Sergard

More cute fanart by fishtre (the original post contains more information about the cute fox)

----------


## Katana500

> *Facepalm
> 
> I don't know, Jim. Maybe we could use some bus? Sure there will be some left in the neightbour that we can bring back with some scout mission?
> 
> Or something.


I don't fully see his logic. Cause won't they all die anyway by just starving to death

----------


## Zaresh

> I don't fully see his logic. Cause won't they all die anyway by just starving to death


Perhaps they have access to some unlimited stock of non-perishable food.
Or a garden in the roof.

I don't know. I don't see the logic in Jim's choice, to be honest. I don't see it at all.

----------


## Katana500

It'd make alot more sense for Jason and Cass to go to the sanctuary to get help to then retrieve the kids.

I bet staying stuck in that building ends badly.

----------


## Aahz

> DCeased: Unkillables #2 Preview is out.


The Art of the series is imo really weak.

----------


## Sergard

Why did the heroes in DCeased leave the planet so fast in the first place? I haven't read the last issues of the series.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Why did the heroes in DCeased leave the planet so fast in the first place? I haven't read the last issues of the series.


The arcs were full and Superman was eating the sun no need to stick around

----------


## Sergard

> The arcs were full and Superman was eating the sun no need to stick around


No "need"? Are you kidding me? That's a heartless comment.

----------


## CPSparkles

> No "need"? Are you kidding me? That's a heartless comment.


Take it up with taylor that's the words from the title and i don't disagree. The arcs were full

----------


## dietrich

Damian I believe made the call once the arcss were full if i recall.

The narration then makes it clear that they couldn't wait or delay since it would mean disaster if they had spared anymore time or attempted to save more.

----------


## Sergard

> Take it up with taylor that's the words from the title and i don't disagree. The arcs were full


And I disagree with the wording and the sentiment.
Millions of people in danger and dying. But "no need". 
That's cruel.

----------


## Sergard

Dexter Soy

_Easter egg Batman and the Outsiders #11 #redronin helmet ya’ll (with ears)_



Also a repost by Soy.

----------


## sifighter

> Damian I believe made the call once the arcss were full if i recall.
> 
> The narration then makes it clear that they couldn't wait or delay since it would mean disaster if they had spared anymore time or attempted to save more.


All of this was especially true after Superman got infected and was just tearing up the planet. The Arks were a back up plan if they were initially created with the help of Lex Luthor as a backup plan of sorts in case they needed to evacuate and once Superman became infected they knew they couldn’t stay on the planet anymore and had to bail. Hell they didn’t even really stop Superman.

Zombie Superman has been waiting in the sun, eating it’s energy to kill the planet. I wouldn’t be surprised if we saw a very terrifying version Golden sun superman in the sequel.

For the record this is what Zombie Superman was doing 

81E71A58-1117-4C4B-90B0-01AE08C6472D.jpg
1204D1D0-2BDC-4DE8-B0CF-FC94A841B8F8.jpg

----------


## Sergard

More fanarts celebrating the Robins:

02png



liz



zumaon

----------


## Sergard

nockuth

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

A list for upcoming Mcfarlane DC figures was found in EB Games Site and what do you know, a Red Hood figure is listed for October.

----------


## Sergard

> A list for upcoming Mcfarlane DC figures was found in EB Games Site and what do you know, a Red Hood figure is listed for October.


Lol. Muder Machine. The typo is funnier than it should be.  :Big Grin:  (It's Murder Machine, for everyone who doesn't know.  :Wink: )

----------


## Zaresh

> Lol. Muder Machine. The typo is funnier than it should be.  (It's Murder Machine, for everyone who doesn't know. )


"Muder Machine" is obviously the first one of a clay figure series. They will be a bit more slippery, though.

----------


## sifighter

Perhaps a chance for Jason Todd still exists in Unkillables? Not gonna try to raise too many hopes though.

 Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy are still there along with any survivors from Unkillables. Quote from Taylor from this new interview about DCeased 2.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/am...mpression=true

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> RED HOOD: OUTLAW #47
> 
> Written by SCOTT LOBDELL
> 
> Art and cover by PAOLO PANTALENA
> 
> Variant cover by PHILIP TAN
> 
> The Chamber of All has been excavated by the Untitled in Qurac, which means it's up to Red Hood, Artemis, Bizarro and Essence to prevent an unspeakable horror from wiping out all of humanity once and for all. Sounds like a tall order for the Outlaws? Don't worry, they get help from the most unexpected (and misunderstood) super-team of all time: Red Hood and the Outlaws! All this, plus Ma Gunn learns the tragic reason Monsieur Mallah and the Brain want to teach the students of Generation Outlaw.
> ...


And the Three Jokers solicit




> BATMAN: THREE JOKERS #1
> 
> Written by GEOFF JOHNS
> 
> Art by JASON FABOK
> 
> Cover by JASON FABOK
> 
> Variant cover by JASON FABOK
> ...


And since is somewhat relevant, the DCeased 2 one




> DCEASED: DEAD PLANET #1
> 
> Written by TOM TAYLOR
> 
> Art by TREVOR HAIRSINE, STEFANO GAUDIANO, GIGI BALDISSINI
> 
> Cover by DAVID FINCH
> 
> Variant cover by FRANCESCO MATTINA
> ...

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Also, Pantalena posted other tease



https://www.instagram.com/p/B9heS8iHMQH/

----------


## Zaresh

The solicit for RH:O #47 is a bit confusing, isn't it? Or maybe it's just me reading wrong.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> The solicit for RH:O #47 is a bit confusing, isn't it? Or maybe it's just me reading wrong.


Not really. The Chamber of All was established to be a nexus where space and time converged, so it stands to reason that is what allows the Outlaws from the past (Roy, Kori, and Jason) to come to the aid of the Dark Trinity. A few years later but Lobdell finally made good on his promise of having the Dark Trinity meet the OG Outlaws.

----------


## Sergard

Nevermind. I misread.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Not really. The Chamber of All was established to be a nexus where space and time converged, so it stands to reason that is what allows the Outlaws from the past (Roy, Kori, and Jason) to come to the aid of the Dark Trinity. A few years later but Lobdell finally made good on his promise of having the Dark Trinity meet the OG Outlaws.


was just about to ask if the Chamber of All is that place in New 52 RHATO #3 because it does look like it from the cover. Yeah. Sounds like they're gonna meet the old team.

----------


## Jackalope89

> was just about to ask if the Chamber of All is that place in New 52 RHATO #3 because it does look like it from the cover. Yeah. Sounds like they're gonna meet the old team.


It will be interesting for Biz and Artemis, but rather tough for Jason. Roy being dead and, whatever Star is up to out in deep space lately.

You know, Jason is one of the few characters left to keep much of their New52 history (barring how he met Bruce, at least). Though, unlike for many, the New52 was actually good for Jason.

----------


## Sergard

> Someone on Reddit posted another part.


Found this on Instagram. But I don't know if it's true. I haven't seen the full second page yet.





I also found this on Instagram. And I think it's hilarious. Cosplayers are awesome.

----------


## Zaresh

> Not really. The Chamber of All was established to be a nexus where space and time converged, so it stands to reason that is what allows the Outlaws from the past (Roy, Kori, and Jason) to come to the aid of the Dark Trinity. A few years later but Lobdell finally made good on his promise of having the Dark Trinity meet the OG Outlaws.


Ok, alright. Now it does make sense.

----------


## Zaresh

> Found this on Instagram. But I don't know if it's true. I haven't seen the full second page yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also found this on Instagram. And I think it's hilarious. Cosplayers are awesome.


I would kill for that AK cosplay, and I know I wouldn't fit that breastplate even with some magic help because, well, laws of physics don't work like that. What a killer of a cosplay, wow.

No wonder they made that meme joke x'D

----------


## Sergard

Dexter Soy shared a photo of a Red Ronin gauntlet.



It's incredible, how much effort and detail cosplay creators put into their work.

I also found a Red Ronin fanart on Instagram (and Red Ronin isn't even an official comic character/version of Jason - so far. Hopefully, we'll get a Red Ronin comic one day).

Prziarts

----------


## RedBird

Nevermind.

----------


## Sergard

inkydandy

_Problems can always be solved in superhero world. Unfortunately, we are not in superhero world and this virus sucks. Just wanted to make something light for the heavy atmosphere that's taken over. Stay safe and clean those surfaces and hands.
EDIT: this is a light-hearted work, not the news, but as pointed out, masks are meant for health workers and the ill, panic-buying helps no one._

----------


## Zaresh

Heh.

I'm jobless again, until the virus outbreak allows kids to have classes again. 15 days at least, maybe a whole month. I hope it's not further than that.  My employers are a small business and I don't know if they will survive such a hit. And, more than because of my own interest, they're great and responsible bosses and hard workers, and don't deserve to have to close bussiness for real after this all passes.

Like Inky, I'm drawing and painting again busying myself whike we're stuck at home. 

Hope you guys are doing fine and don't have any health problems. My cuddliest safe, virtual hug for you all.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Heh.
> 
> I'm jobless again, until the virus outbreak allows kids to have classes again. 15 days at least, maybe a whole month. I hope it's not further than that.  My employers are a small business and I don't know if they will survive such a hit. And, more than because of my own interest, they're great and responsible bosses and hard workers, and don't deserve to have to close bussiness for real after this all passes.
> 
> Like Inky, I'm drawing and painting again busying myself whike we're stuck at home. 
> 
> Hope you guys are doing fine and don't have any health problems. My cuddliest safe, virtual hug for you all.


All the schools in my city and the neighboring towns are closed too. We're all still fine though.

----------


## Zaresh

> All the schools in my city and the neighboring towns are closed too. We're all still fine though.


Good to hear (about you being fine, I mean).
I hope it doesn't go further than that and you guys don't have to resort to soft-quarantine the country like we've just done.

----------


## Sergard

> Heh.
> 
> I'm jobless again, until the virus outbreak allows kids to have classes again. 15 days at least, maybe a whole month. I hope it's not further than that.  My employers are a small business and I don't know if they will survive such a hit. And, more than because of my own interest, they're great and responsible bosses and hard workers, and don't deserve to have to close bussiness for real after this all passes.
> 
> Like Inky, I'm drawing and painting again busying myself whike we're stuck at home. 
> 
> Hope you guys are doing fine and don't have any health problems. My cuddliest safe, virtual hug for you all.


I'm sorry to hear that.  :Frown: 
In my country, kindergartens, schools, universities and similar institutions are closed too. Events are cancelled. There are time regulations for bars and restaurants. A lot of shops also have to close and only "necessary" shops like supermarkets, pharmacy, drugstores, etc. are still allowed to stay open (It's crazy how empty some supermarkets are currently because hysteric people are buying everything). Businesses are advised by government to use teleworking if possible. I'm still working but there is a lot of talk and changes in the company I'm working for. Some colleagues have already been switched to teleworking.

I hope you won't be jobless for too long and that the business will be fine.
In my country, the government at least proclaimed that they would support businesses so that there won't be any bankruptcy.

----------


## Zaresh

> I'm sorry to hear that. 
> In my country, kindergartens, schools, universities and similar institutions are closed too. Events are cancelled. There are time regulations for bars and restaurants. A lot of shops also have to close and only "necessary" shops like supermarkets, pharmacy, drugstores, etc. are still allowed to stay open (It's crazy how empty some supermarkets are currently because hysteric people are buying everything). Businesses are advised by government to use teleworking if possible. I'm still working but there is a lot of talk and changes in the company I'm working for. Some colleagues have already been switched to teleworking.
> 
> I hope you won't be jobless for too long and that the business will be fine.
> In my country, the government at least proclaimed that they would support businesses so that there won't be any bankruptcy.


Here we're doing the same since Wednesday in some parts of the country, since yesterday night everywhere now. Only difference is that we're also restricting mobility between cities and regions. For good, because holy lord, some people are too irresponsible sometimes. Police, too, is starting patrol around some cities to ensure that certain leisure-oriented business (malls, pubs, cafés, etc.) that should be closed are going to be closed. Even when I could've worked from home thanks to our website, classes are just a small percentage of our services. Then, apparently, education-related business aren't going to have access to financial aid (crazy as it may seem). Sucks a ton, but what can we do. At least I'm sure they're going to re-hire me as soon as this whole crisis ends.

Best wishes to all of you and your close ones, guys <3.

----------


## Jackalope89

My state (Wyoming) only has 1 confirmed case so far, and that's on the other end (the UK can fit inside of Wyoming, North to South, with room to spare going East and West). That said, a lot of schools have hit Spring Break this week, including the university, but ended up extending it to 2 weeks.

And it figures. Since the beginning of January, I've been stuck at home from recovering from ankle surgery. Finally get released to to get back to walking and what not, and then this blows up.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Good to hear (about you being fine, I mean).
> I hope it doesn't go further than that and you guys don't have to resort to soft-quarantine the country like we've just done.





> I'm sorry to hear that. 
> In my country, kindergartens, schools, universities and similar institutions are closed too. Events are cancelled. There are time regulations for bars and restaurants. A lot of shops also have to close and only "necessary" shops like supermarkets, pharmacy, drugstores, etc. are still allowed to stay open (It's crazy how empty some supermarkets are currently because hysteric people are buying everything). Businesses are advised by government to use teleworking if possible. I'm still working but there is a lot of talk and changes in the company I'm working for. Some colleagues have already been switched to teleworking.


The government's starting to form the patrol, but everything except schools is still open. People are still going to work or shop at traditional markets. It's just the malls and travel planes are getting empty. 

We did have the buying hysteria. Masks, disinfectants. Sold out everywhere. So the government ban mass buying, confiscate the ones they found and reselling it. The currently available batch of masks have limits placed on how many a person can buy. 

We've had many confirmed cases, four died, four healed, and one actually ran away from the hospital. No update yet on that last one. The school closing and patrol formation is the newest news.  

I hope things don't last too long where you all are.

----------


## Sergard

I already know what I would do if I were put in quarantine and had to kill time: I'd read fanfics  :Stick Out Tongue: 
There's still the "More to Being a Father than Having a Kid" series that Zaresh once recommended and that I haven't started yet. But I fear no quarantine would be long enough in order to bring me up to date.

----------


## kaimaciel

I work in healthcare, so I'll be doing double shifts and working until this is over or until I can't anymore. Now I know how the musicians in the Titanic felt. 

If I make it, I want a shirt saying "F$ck you, Corona! I lived!"

Stay safe everyone.

----------


## Restingvoice

Ah. Back to Jason, apparently DC Universe's story about his inclusion in the sexiest man poll is because champion-in-exile big bro Dick put his name in? ^^

Saw the screenshot on Tumblr but now I can't find it again -_-

----------


## Aahz

https://ningmoe.tumblr.com/post/6117...t-place-in-the

----------


## Zaresh

> I work in healthcare, so I'll be doing double shifts and working until this is over or until I can't anymore. Now I know how the musicians in the Titanic felt. 
> 
> If I make it, I want a shirt saying "F$ck you, Corona! I lived!"
> 
> Stay safe everyone.


My take on that shirt:

"Fuck you, Corona. I'm the King now!"

(because "corona" means "crown")
(I know, I know; it's not a pun in English, but...)

Same. Good luck at work.




> Ah. Back to Jason, apparently DC Universe's story about his inclusion in the sexiest man poll is because champion-in-exile big bro Dick put his name in? ^^
> 
> Saw the screenshot on Tumblr but now I can't find it again -_-


I think I read at the time somewhere in Twitter that officially they let Dick out because he always wins those contets. But I don't know if it was something official or not.

----------


## Sergard

> https://ningmoe.tumblr.com/post/6117...t-place-in-the


There's also this screenshot:



But I don't know if it's official or fan-made.

----------


## Jackalope89

> There's also this screenshot:
> 
> 
> 
> But I don't know if it's official or fan-made.


Either way, its not wrong.

----------


## Zaresh

I've just saw this video posted in Dick's thread. It's from SYFY Wire, a special report about the anniversary of Robin. It goes through the history of the concept and the characters and it's 20 minutes long. Has a few interviews cuts here and there. I think, for the sake of knowing the story about how we got the first Jason Todd, that you can hit the player at 06:49. It's where they're going with Dick becoming Nightwing, but it's also where they explain why and how they decided to create a new Robin instead of de-aging Dick. Then they go on about why the changed Jason's origin in post-crisis. And of course, they talk about the whole "A Death in the Familly" mess. I have to say that I disagree with some statements the narrator states, but, well, that's no news. It's interesting info, as brief as it is his block in the video.




A bad thorn in Bruce's side, reminder of his falilures... F*ck that. I'm so pissed about people saying stuff like that. I though we were above that already. But I guess we're not. You know what I get of statements like those? That certain readers can't deal with characters disagreeing with their fictional idols and they need every character to please and bend to their wills and wishes. 

/rant

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

DC not releasing the variant cover for issue 47 makes me think that it will include the original team and they want to keep it a surprise.

----------


## Ssstammerer

My growing Jason Todd statue collection. I told myself that 2020 will be more focused on Jaybird statue hunting.  :Cool: 

#JasonToddPH #RedHoodPH

----------


## Sergard

> [...]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A bad thorn in Bruce's side, reminder of his falilures... F*ck that. I'm so pissed about people saying stuff like that.*I thought we were above that already*. But I guess we're not. You know what I get of statements like those? That certain readers can't deal with characters disagreeing with their fictional idols and they need every character to please and bend to their wills and wishes. 
> 
> /rant


The sad thing is - we will never be above that.  :Frown:  There'll always be people like that.
And that's awful. I'm sick and tired of hearing that Jason is the "bad Robin" and Batman's "biggest failure".
I still believe that it would be better for Jason if he left the bat-"family" and stopped interacting with the members entirely.
They treat him like shit anyway.
Jason is a good person and is deserving of a family that is actually a family, i.e. people who care about him.

----------


## Restingvoice

> There's also this screenshot:
> 
> 
> 
> But I don't know if it's official or fan-made.


Yeah that's the one I saw

----------


## Sergard

> My growing Jason Todd statue collection. I told myself that 2020 will be more focused on Jaybird statue hunting. 
> 
> #JasonToddPH #RedHoodPH


Any specific statue that you want to hunt or that you are looking forward to?


-----

Dexter Soy 

_#redronin gauntlets available @Cosplus3D shop!_

----------


## Sergard

Red Hood: Outlaw #44 - finalized cover

----------


## Sergard

The Robin 80th Anniversary issue will have a Red Hood & The Outlaws Pinup by Kenneth Rocafort.



(source)

----------


## Jackalope89

An oldie, but one of my favorite little fanarts.

----------


## Sergard

I believe this hasn't yet been shared here, or?

Sean Gordon Murphy

Sean Gordon Murphy twitter 02-03-2020.JPG

----------


## Jackalope89

> I believe this hasn't yet been shared here, or?
> 
> Sean Gordon Murphy
> 
> Sean Gordon Murphy twitter 02-03-2020.JPG


Crap. Now I have to read it.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I don't get the hate the White Knight 'verse gets on some sites. For an elseworld, I think it pretty interesting with some neat takes on the different Batman Characters, so I'm all to see what Murphy has in mind for Jason. That said, Dark Prince Charming was the superior Batman elseworld.

----------


## Zaresh

> I don't get the hate the White Knight 'verse gets on some sites. For an elseworld, I think it pretty interesting with some neat takes on the different Batman Characters, so I'm all to see what Murphy has in mind for Jason. That said, Dark Prince Charming was the superior Batman elseworld.


I like it too, as crazy as it may be. My guess it's because how Bruce is depicted in the book versus Harley or Jack. It's a very flawed Bruce, who has messed up big; and that's a big deal for a lot of people. But I don't know, perhaps it's not that.

----------


## Badou

Jason was the first Robin in that universe, right? Since Murphy didn't know that Dick came first as he had very limited Batman lore knowledge before working on the series. So you figure it will be a very different take on the character possibly if he was the first Robin and Dick replaced him.

----------


## Zaresh

> Jason was the first Robin in that universe, right? Since Murphy didn't know that Dick came first as he had very limited Batman lore knowledge before working on the series. So you figure it will be a very different take on the character possibly if he was the first Robin and Dick replaced him.


That's the interesting thing about elseworlds: you can play with stuff like that, see what happens, have some fun. This Dick for example, has some common traits with DCU Dick, but also significant differences.

----------


## Restingvoice

> I don't get the hate the White Knight 'verse gets on some sites. For an elseworld, I think it pretty interesting with some neat takes on the different Batman Characters, so I'm all to see what Murphy has in mind for Jason. That said, Dark Prince Charming was the superior Batman elseworld.


Two things people don't like from WK is promoting Joker and Harley as a couple (some fans don't want Joker and Harley to ever ever ever getting back together and view books like those as promoting abuse regardless the actual story) and depicting a violent Batman again. When Batman is obsessive and violent in the main book and again in WK it's not much different.

----------


## Sergard

I wasn't even aware that the White Knight 'verse gets hate. That's ... kind of unnecessary.
It's an elseworlds. The story will be finished at some point and that's it.

I can understand people when they are upset about something in the main universe - because it's the "main universe".
If something controversial happens here, it will have an influence on a character or series for a long time. And that can be really annoying.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I wasn't even aware that the White Knight 'verse gets hate. That's ... kind of unnecessary.
> It's an elseworlds. The story will be finished at some point and that's it.
> 
> I can understand people when they are upset about something in the main universe - because it's the "main universe".
> If something controversial happens here, it will have an influence on a character or series for a long time. And that can be really annoying.


I don't give it hate, just wasn't that invested in it, and dropped it after the first issue.

----------


## Zaresh

Just in case you guys want to know, if you like pulp, Curse is very, very pulpy.

----------


## Ssstammerer

So I didn't know this collectible existed.

The Lego Limited Edition Robin from Poland. I love that they chose the New 52 Jason Todd as their exclusive Robin.  :Cool: 

#JasonToddPH #RedHoodPH

----------


## Aahz

> The Robin 80th Anniversary issue will have a Red Hood & The Outlaws Pinup by Kenneth Rocafort.
> 
> 
> 
> (source)


I find it disappointing that we get a Red Hood Story and not a Robin Story for Jason, there are (if we ignore pre crisis which is a pretty different character) not that many comics with him as Robin in the first place, and hardly any that really focus on him (apart from is origin and DitF).

----------


## Zaresh

> I find it disappointing that we get a Red Hood Story and not a Robin Story for Jason, there are (if we ignore pre crisis which is a pretty different character) not that many comics with him as Robin in the first place, and hardly any that really focus on him (apart from is origin and DitF).


Nowadays I don't expect the best things to happen. This is not a surprise for me, so, well, I will achieve nothing by complaining or anything. They still can't bring themselves to acknowledge him as a former Robin properly, and when they do, guess what? I expect them to pict him like a jerk, justifying his death somehow. When we know it wasn't like that. But it's the narrative they sell because it's the one the've sold before and the one people have bought.

I'm not going to lie, I'm mad; but I somehow have dealt with it. Life is not fair, and I'm used to have to deal with it as mad as it may make me :/.

Their miss, too. A book with some retconned or retold stories about Jason being Robin and showing his passion and virtues (alongside his flaws, insecurities and fears) would sell like nothing, just by novelty alone, not to mention people are going to like it because he would be a bold and street smart but still friendly and kind kid. And still and underdog and hardworker, which is a trope people love too (as we know).

----------


## Zaresh

> So I didn't know this collectible existed.
> 
> The Lego Limited Edition Robin from Poland. I love that they chose the New 52 Jason Todd as their exclusive Robin. 
> 
> #JasonToddPH #RedHoodPH


I think I like Poland, and polish people are cool in my book. They seemingly have good taste too. Yeep.

----------


## Sergard

> I don't give it hate, just wasn't that invested in it, and dropped it after the first issue.


It would be nice if more people just dropped a series if they don't like it.
I've seen enough comments by people who still follow a series although they don't like the story.
Their comments are especially negative. (... duh)

I've dropped some books in the past.
I've dropped DCeased after issue 3. (and then started again with Unkillables).
I've started Detective Comics because of the Arkham Knight arc - and dropped it with the Arkham Knight arc.
I've started Teen Titans with the current team - and dropped the series after the annual.
I've dropped Batman: Last Knight on Earth after the first issue.
I've dropped Batman: Damned after the second issue - I think. Maybe I own the third issue but I can't remember reading it.

----------


## Sergard

> I find it disappointing that we get a Red Hood Story and not a Robin Story for Jason, there are (if we ignore pre crisis which is a pretty different character) not that many comics with him as Robin in the first place, and hardly any that really focus on him (apart from is origin and DitF).


There'll probably be one or more flashbacks. (At least there was a glimpse of Robin Jason in the sneak peek shared a few weeks ago.) Better than nothing, I guess.
On the other hand, "More Time" sounds like a reference to "Death in the family". It's sad that Jason always gets reduced to his death.
Jason was such a cute and passionate kid who cared about people but who also had enough of it that the poorest of people were terrorized.





> Nowadays I don't expect the best things to happen. This is not a surprise for me, so, well, I will achieve nothing by complaining or anything. They still can't bring themselves to acknowledge him as a former Robin properly, and when they do, guess what? I expect them to pict him like a jerk, justifying his death somehow. When we know it wasn't like that. But it's the narrative they sell because it's the one the've sold before and the one people have bought.
> 
> I'm not going to lie, I'm mad; *but I somehow have dealt with it.* Life is not fair, and I'm used to have to deal with it as mad as it may make me :/.
> 
> Their miss, too. A book with some retconned or retold stories about Jason being Robin and showing his passion and virtues (alongside his flaws, insecurities and fears) would sell like nothing, just by novelty alone, not to mention people are going to like it because he would be a bold and street smart but still friendly and kind kid. And still and underdog and hardworker, which is a trope people love too (as we know).


You have to tell me your secret to inner harmony. Because I'm mad as hell.

(And I'd love to read some Robin Jason, also pre-Robin Jason/streetkid Jason stories would be great.)

----------


## Aahz

> There'll probably be one or more flashbacks.


But it would be nice to get more than just Flashbacks.

Honestly there is (ignoring pre crisis) sofar only a single Jason solo story from his time as Robin, and that's a Backup Story in Batman Annual #12 about Jason in school.

----------


## Sergard

> But it would be nice to get more than just Flashbacks.
> 
> Honestly there is (ignoring pre crisis) sofar only a single Jason solo story from his time as Robin, and that's a Backup Story in Batman Annual #12 about Jason in school.


It would have already been nice if DC had listed Jason in the list of contents as Robin II. (Something like "Robin II and Red Hood", "Robin II/Red Hood" or "Red Hood (Robin II)").
But nope, Jason is still treated as "He Who Must Not Be Named".

And man, I loved the Backup story. It was a sweet little story that could have led to more. But nope again.

----------


## Zaresh

> There'll probably be one or more flashbacks. (At least there was a glimpse of Robin Jason in the sneak peek shared a few weeks ago.) Better than nothing, I guess.
> On the other hand, "More Time" sounds like a reference to "Death in the family". It's sad that Jason always gets reduced to his death.
> Jason was such a cute and passionate kid who cared about people but who also had enough of it that the poorest of people were terrorized.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have to tell me your secret to inner harmony. Because I'm mad as hell.
> 
> (And I'd love to read some Robin Jason, also pre-Robin Jason/streetkid Jason stories would be great.)


Not like I always manage to not get incredibly mad (I had: people that know me, knows), but my philosophy, at this point, is the following.
*spoilers:*
Life is unfair. I can be unfair, others are going to be unfair. How the world works is unfair. Partly because they think different than you, partly because they may have more influence or power than you. Whatever the reason, it's what is it and how it is.

Am I going to be mad and unhappy, bothered by something I can't change or have any power or hand it it, the whole time, 24/7?
No.
Why?
Because it robs me from stuff that I can do to fight this unfairness.

So I can't change the editors opinions, or can't change how they approach Jason's time as Robin, or how they want to sell it. I can't change their thick, obtuse ideas ideas that I know are wrong for very strong and truthful reasons. I can't change it by staying mad and be mad almost beyond reason; and it's arguable that I can change it by showing proof because human mind is like that: we tend to stick to our first opinion on something no matter what (I'm sure it's an effect that has a name for psychologists, but I don't know its name).

But there're things that I can do, like for example, showing other readers who don't have a strongly set opinion on the matter how awesome and cute and interesting Jason could be; or just by showing my love, passion and affection towards Jason, recommending reads about him, or posting pages from the comics in the net. Just by that, you get those others to get interested or changing their bias, even if slowly. And it helps in changing the big guys way of seeing how to portrait Jason, even if bit by bit, in the end. So, maybe, it will reach their thick heads and those who do can do something to change their approach from its core at some point. It's part wishful thinking, I know; but I think it can work.

It also helps that I know I'm right and they're wrong  :Big Grin: .
And that I'm not alone, and there's people out there that creates what I like and how I see it.
*end of spoilers*

Edit: I've just left some passive-agressive tweet /cc to DCcomics account in Twitter. Feels good.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Sales data

124. RED HOOD OUTLAW #43 (DC) - 14,623 [130]

https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...0/2020-02.html

----------


## Zaresh

> Sales data
> 
> 124. RED HOOD OUTLAW #43 (DC) - 14,623 [130]
> 
> https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...0/2020-02.html


So it's a fact: we're falling down.
Sigh, it's sad, especially now that the book is so enjoyable again :/.

Edit: hard to believe Hawkeye is so low too. I'm pretty sure it's doing better than that.

----------


## Aahz

Sales seem in general bad, even Batman is below 75K.

At least Unkillable did well (despite the weak artwork).

----------


## Sergard

> Sales seem in general bad, even Batman is below 75K.
> 
> At least Unkillable did well (despite the weak artwork).


True. There aren't that many great numbers.
38,004 also feels kinda low for Batman: Pennyworth R.I.P., even if no one really liked the story. But it contains Bruce, Dick, Jason, Tim, Damian and Barbara - and it's written by Tomasi and Tynion.
DC can't even exploit Alfred's death for money.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Jason is definitely a Titan on Titans Giant




> DC has revealed the cover and contents to May 20's Titans Giant #2, with promise of a wedding engagement and threat of DC superheroes' secret identities revealed to the world.
> 
> In writer Phil Hester and artist Scott Koblish's "Bride of Blood," Deathstroke beseeches long-time adversaries, the Titans, to help him save his daughter Ravager after she was abducted by Brother Blood's Church of Blood. Red Hood believes Slade Wilson is telling the truth - but do the other Titans?

----------


## gohei_

> Jason was the first Robin in that universe, right? *Since Murphy didn't know that Dick came first* as he had very limited Batman lore knowledge before working on the series. So you figure it will be a very different take on the character possibly if he was the first Robin and Dick replaced him.


Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with changing things up but if you're gonna write a story about Batman and his (former) sidekicks, how can you not know such a thing as in which order the Robins were?

----------


## Zaresh

> Jason is definitely a Titan on Titans Giant


This os sooooooo weird.
I mean, I'm totally going to read it.

But it's very weird. The weirdest thing this month for me. Which is to say a lot.




> Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with changing things up but if you're gonna write a story about Batman and his (former) sidekicks, how can you not know such a thing as in which order the Robins were?


This is a guess, but I've often read that Murphy is more of a fan of the derivative works than the comics themselves. He's a bit fan of the animated series, and those skipped Jason entirely. So his place in the order isn't probably clear for him, if he didn't follow the comics thoroughly until he was a teenager (which means he probably knows Dick and Tim better than Jason. And I'm going to guess and say that he probably doesn't know much about Damian either). 

From there, it's easy, with the help of a little of imagination to fill the gasp, to imagine that Bruce's first sidekick was Jason, who died; and let Bruce broken; explaining why Dick and Bruce had a Rocky relationship in the end by the time Tim arrived to the comics. Instead of what we know that happened.

That, and mixing concepts, ideas, traits... Happens when you read stuff long ago, you read a ton of stuff afterwards, but don't re-read it later to refresh your memories.

----------


## Arctic Cyclist

> Jason was the first Robin in that universe, right? Since Murphy didn't know that Dick came first as he had very limited Batman lore knowledge before working on the series. So you figure it will be a very different take on the character possibly if he was the first Robin and Dick replaced him.


It's a reverse Robin universe. No Damian, as there was no reason for Talia, and therefore Ra', to be interested in Bruce. Duke is an adult and older than Jason, Barbara, and Dick with a military career behind him. No Tim as without Dick there's no feasible reason for Tim to have figured out Batman. No Stephanie or Cass because, again, when you remove Dick as the first Robin you remove most of Bruce's humanity and compassion. He has no reason to collect anyone but Jason whose origin has no connection to Dick.

By reversing Robins, the motivation for Jason to ever forgive Bruce and come back is also eliminated. There's no Talia to tell most versions of Jason that he's special, worthwhile, deeply loved, and missed. Nor is there a reason based on Dick for Jason to think that Bruce cared about him or anyone as more than a tool and an object to be used.

Hence Jason getting the heck out of Dodge after OG Harley released him and never coming back as Red Hood or Arkham Knight.

Overall it is a well thought out and excellent series that delves into how simple changes alter the characters. I'm disappointed that the powers that be have decided that Catwoman must be in everything and are going to kill the book's sales by shoving her in as a love interest instead of Harley.

----------


## Zaresh

> It's a reverse Robin universe. No Damian, as there was no reason for Talia, and therefore Ra', to be interested in Bruce. Duke is an adult and older than Jason, Barbara, and Dick with a military career behind him. No Tim as without Dick there's no feasible reason for Tim to have figured out Batman. No Stephanie or Cass because, again, when you remove Dick as the first Robin you remove most of Bruce's humanity and compassion. He has no reason to collect anyone but Jason whose origin has no connection to Dick.
> 
> By reversing Robins, the motivation for Jason to ever forgive Bruce and come back is also eliminated. There's no Talia to tell most versions of Jason that he's special, worthwhile, deeply loved, and missed. Nor is there a reason based on Dick for Jason to think that Bruce cared about him or anyone as more than a tool and an object to be used.
> 
> Hence Jason getting the heck out of Dodge after OG Harley released him and never coming back as Red Hood or Arkham Knight.
> 
> Overall it is a well thought out and excellent series that delves into how simple changes alter the characters. I'm disappointed that the powers that be have decided that Catwoman must be in everything and are going to kill the book's sales by shoving her in as a love interest instead of Harley.


Is this a fact or your theory, @Arct? I mean, it's a cool concept, but is as it is or...?

----------


## Sergard

> Jason is definitely a Titan on Titans Giant


I feel like the cover is a reference to an other cover, but I'm not sure.

Also seems like DC is catering to fans of the Titans TV-series. (Although I'm not sure if those fans know that Red Hood is Jason Todd.)


Off-topic: Shay Veritas (who was part of the Generation Outlaw arc, RH:O #37-41) has an appearance in The Terrifics #26. She's part of the "T-Council", a group of some of the best scientists in the world.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> It's a reverse Robin universe. No Damian, as there was no reason for Talia, and therefore Ra', to be interested in Bruce. Duke is an adult and older than Jason, Barbara, and Dick with a military career behind him. No Tim as without Dick there's no feasible reason for Tim to have figured out Batman. No Stephanie or Cass because, again, when you remove Dick as the first Robin you remove most of Bruce's humanity and compassion. He has no reason to collect anyone but Jason whose origin has no connection to Dick.
> 
> By reversing Robins, the motivation for Jason to ever forgive Bruce and come back is also eliminated. There's no Talia to tell most versions of Jason that he's special, worthwhile, deeply loved, and missed. Nor is there a reason based on Dick for Jason to think that Bruce cared about him or anyone as more than a tool and an object to be used.
> 
> Hence Jason getting the heck out of Dodge after OG Harley released him and never coming back as Red Hood or Arkham Knight.
> 
> Overall it is a well thought out and excellent series that delves into how simple changes alter the characters. I'm disappointed that the powers that be have decided that Catwoman must be in everything and are going to kill the book's sales by shoving her in as a love interest instead of Harley.


I mean, the fact is deviating so much is precisely the reason why is interesting, to see how Murphy can include these characters where the main facts about them in the regular universe is not present. Also, you do know that Murphy has all but confirmed this version of Jason is coming back as Red Hood, yes?

----------


## Sergard

Travis Mercer

Travis Moore 17-03-2020.jpg

From his Instagram (so people have an idea how his style looks like):

Travis Mercer

_"The many expressions of Jason todd....just some coloring practice for fun"_




Travis Mercer

_"Here was the final for the @dccomics unkillables #1. Jason and slade! Two fantastic characters! Oh and some zombies haha."_

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Mercer's work is very reminiscent of Scott Kollins' work. Not bad.

----------


## redmax99

found it 76c4511112d685f6a0bb770ba2ab1051.jpg

----------


## Zaresh

Seems like our "Jason" story for the anniversary's special is going to be a very Robin-themed story after all. Or so it seems. We will know for sure tomorrow.

This is a link to the photo of a few panels of the actual issue, hosted and posted in Reddit /r/DCcomics. Beware the spoilers.

https://i.redd.it/7uc6kumtmbn41.jpg

And apparently, he shows up in a few other stories too.

----------


## Arctic Cyclist

> Is this a fact or your theory, @Arct? I mean, it's a cool concept, but is as it is or...?


Given that we are shown that Duke is older than Dick and discussed his time in the service, then that Jason was the first Robin and is older than Dick and Barbara, I would say it's canon. However, you don't have to take my word on it, the first series was well drawn and written, completely worth reading.

It is strongly tied to Batman: TAS, but also shows a good grasp of 80s comics and a certain amount of 90s comics.

----------


## Sergard

> found it Attachment 94569


Interesting cover, thanks for looking.  :Smile: 
But I had an other cover in mind with two people in the front kissing (or at least looking romantic) and a bunch of people in the background looking surprised. Maybe it's just my own imagination and that cover doesn't even exist.

----------


## sifighter

Ok so I guess DC has a thing of putting Jason and Rose together right now? They just attempted it in DCeased Unkillables #2 today, before everything went to hell anyway.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Unkillables has the most monumentally stupid characters that I've ever seen.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I'm not very impressed by the 80th-anniversary issue. It is mostly about Dick but that is to be expected, he _is_ the first Robin after all (although getting four stories of his own is a bit too much) but when it comes to Jason, it was just a retreading of previous stories/takes. Winnick's story doesn't add much to Jason as a character and is another "oh woe me" scene meant to tug at the reader's heartstrings by showing how close Bruce and Jason were in the past and how their relationship is broken now. It does make sense since it is meant to be placed during the original UtRH period, but as I said, it doesn't add anything new to that story.  I do appreciate seeing a human, empathic Bruce again though. 

Besides the Winnick story Jason has small appearance on Tynion's Tim story that is a lead up to Rebirth's Detective Comics on which, unsurprisingly, Jason is shown as the "sidekick gone wrong" that tries to tempt Tim to go astray by pointing out how Bruce has failed. And a small acknowledgment about his death on Robbie Thompson's Damian story.

Besides that, there's an extremely simplified "who's Who" section at the end giving a barebones explanation of each of the Robin's career, that oddly enough, it only mentions their pre N52 adventures with the exception of Agent 37 for Dick, and leading the Teen Titans for Damian. 

Here's the Jason's bit



Rocafort's pinup is freaking amazing though.

----------


## Zaresh

We should overflow the net everywhere with content about Jason: fanarts, fanfics, posts, articles, polls... everywhere where there's an audience and a chance creators are looking there: twitter, facebook, tumblr, reddit... And to the hell if we're annoying. That way we achieve to objetives: gain awareness out there about how Jason really is, and show how cool and intersting he is, gaining new fans.

It works for me with my shameless promotion of the Discworld everywhere. It could work for fighting for Jason too.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> We should overflow the net everywhere with content about Jason: fanarts, fanfics, posts, articles, polls... everywhere where there's an audience and a chance creators are looking there: twitter, facebook, tumblr, reddit... And to the hell if we're annoying. That way we achieve to objetives: gain awareness out there about how Jason really is, and show how cool and intersting he is, gaining new fans.
> 
> It works for me with my shameless promotion of the Discworld everywhere. It could work for fighting for Jason too.


That's how we got RHATO in the first place, as matter of fact. People flooded DC's offices with postcards asking for a Red Hood ongoing.

----------


## Zaresh

I read it before I would've because... Stuff. I may get this one in paperback, because the whole batch of stories isn't bad overall.

Jason's story wasn't that bad. It was touching, nice but sad. I agree in that it seems that Winick only knows how to write a very limited kind of stories for Jason; but on the other hand... This whole issue was though to aim general audience, and like it or not, this is what the general audience seeks in Jason for a story. Which is why I said that before: let's work towards making people know that Jason is more than they know.

In any case, nice, very short, very simple story, with great art (I'm a big fan of Nguyen), even if I'm not too sold about the colours (but they fit the palette that they used for UtH, so I guess it makes sense). I like the analogy about Jason and the watch. I'm not too fond of Bruce having that much importance in his story: Jason's life is much more that everything revolving around Bruce and Batman. But again, it makes sense in that it's what general audience knows, and probably what Winick himself knows about him (I don't think he has been following his solo or anything else). And he did show a very conflicted relationship with Bruce in UtH, balancing between rage and melancholy.

Edit: just in case it was misleading.* I liked this story a lot.*

----------


## Rise

Jason's story was easily the best one. Bittersweet and simply heartwarming which is suitable for an anniversary story. 

With all due respect to Lobdell (who I personally did enjoy his work despite my disappointment lately) and every writer who did their best with Jason, no one has yet to match Winnck's voice for him and get what made him popular in the first place. I have hope for Johns and the 3 jokers, but let's wait and see.

----------


## Sergard

> [...]
> 
> Rocafort's pinup is freaking amazing though.


Cool. Ducra, Crux and Isabel are in the background.

----------


## Zaresh

> Jason's story was easily the best one. Bittersweet and simply heartwarming which is suitable for an anniversary story. 
> 
> With all due respect to Lobdell (who I personally did enjoy his work despite my disappointment lately) and every writer who did their best with Jason, *no one has yet to match Winnck's voice for him* and get what made him popular in the first place. I have hope for Johns and the 3 jokers, but let's wait and see.


Just in case, because I'm aware now that I was a bit misleading. I liked the story a lot too. It was very touching.

And I have to agree with you in this, too. But I wonder if Winick is aware about why I  and others like his voice for him so much.

----------


## Blue22

Finally getting to read this Robin thing now that I'm off work. I was not prepared for all these feels but Jason's hit the hardest so far XD
[img]https://****************.ru/uploads/manga/robin-80th-anniversary-100page-super-spectacular-2020/chapters/1/46.jpg[/img]

----------


## Sergard

And of course, there's already a fanart of cute Robin Jason:

hyaena666

----------


## charliehustle415

> Finally getting to read this Robin thing now that I'm off work. I was not prepared for all these feels but Jason's hit the hardest so far XD
> [img]https://****************.ru/uploads/manga/robin-80th-anniversary-100page-super-spectacular-2020/chapters/1/46.jpg[/img]


What an amazing story; I wish we had more of kind Todd. I would love a mini series by Nguyen and Winick that takes place during this time.

----------


## Zaresh

> What an amazing story; I wish we had more of kind Todd. I would love a mini series by Nguyen and Winick that takes place during this time.


I would love Nguyen as a regular artist for Jason. He's right up my alley, he's soft, but can be hard, he's very expressive and has a wide range of style.

But I guess his is not explosive enough, given the kind of artistic style that they're asking for the book currently.

----------


## charliehustle415

> I would love Nguyen as a regular artist for Jason. He's right up my alley, he's soft, but can be hard, he's very expressive and has a wide range of style.
> 
> But I guess his is not explosive enough, given the kind of artistic style that they're asking for the book currently.


I loved Nguyen on Streets of Gotham and 'Tec during the Batman RIP days; good times

----------


## Sergard

Today is Dexter Soy's birthday.

------

I've found this cosplay of Jason and Artemis on Instagram. (Fun fact: Those cosplayers are a couple and this photo was taken on Valentine's Day/their anniversary.)



I love cosplays.

This is another cosplay I really like: Prince of Gotham Jason and Artemis in her black dress:



Fun fact: These two cosplayers also did a cosplay of Red Hood and a female Nightwing version (source):



This is amazing stuff.
Cosplayers deserve more credit for what they are creating.

----------


## Celgress

> Today is Dexter Soy's birthday.
> 
> ------
> 
> I've found this cosplay of Jason and Artemis on Instagram. (Fun fact: Those cosplayers are a couple and this photo was taken on Valentine's Day/their anniversary.)
> 
> 
> 
> I love cosplays.
> ...


Love it, they did a great job.  :Cool:

----------


## Restingvoice

Dustin Nguyen's art aside, if you want to put Jason's Robin 80 story in the timeline, where would it be? Soon after he's adopted? After he found out about Two-Face? Before?

----------


## Sergard

> Dustin Nguyen's art aside, if you want to put Jason's Robin 80 story in the timeline, where would it be? Soon after he's adopted? After he found out about Two-Face? Before?


Not before Two-Face.
Jason received his Robin costume in Batman #410 - and then immediately the Two-Face case happened.
But probably not that far after.
Winick's story reminds me of Batman #413 when Jason is at the museum because he wants to write a report for extra credit in history.
Both stories show Jason as a precious child who's a hard worker type and who gets fascinated by unusual stuff like comparing England in the early 19th century with Japan based on an exhibition or clock repair.
(And both stories show Alfred enjoying Jason's accomplishments. I really miss Alfred.)





I imagine that the Red Hood part is set shortly after Batman: Under the Hood. It can't be before but Jason is still wearing his classic Red Hood outfit.

----------


## Restingvoice

Ooh, that's good. Yeah. That sounds right.

Okay, so... fans pretty much accepts Jason these days and doesn't really miss Pre-Crisis Jason, but... are there elements from his old stories anyone wants to bring back if they haven't?

Example, his relationship with Nocturna, partnership with Bullock, jealousy on Catwoman (by this point he's already grown up and doesn't feel that way, but in flashback, as part of his Robin canon), feud with Killer Croc (they're friends in this version since he helped Roy and he never killed his parents)...

----------


## Zaresh

> Ooh, that's good. Yeah. That sounds right.
> 
> Okay, so... fans pretty much accepts Jason these days and doesn't really miss Pre-Crisis Jason, but... are there elements from his old stories anyone wants to bring back if they haven't?
> 
> Example, *his relationship with Nocturna, partnership with Bullock, jealousy on Catwoman (by this point he's already grown up and doesn't feel that way, but in flashback, as part of his Robin canon)*, feud with Killer Croc (they're friends in this version since he helped Roy and he never killed his parents)...


These could make for some interesting drama, given Jason post-Crisis background. Why?
- Because his issues about parenting and parental figures, specially motherly figures.
- Because it gives more of a base for tensions with Bruce in his past, but not in a too messy way that pictures Jason as the one in fault, exactly. It plays some of the insecurities in Jason, and also a few of the shortcomings Bruce depicts nowadays.
- Jason was a Crime Alley kid, and a thief. Both Natalia and Selina are thieves, and both of them had hard childhoods.

Edir: I just like Bullock.

----------


## Aahz

The Nocturna story never really worked for me (I might switch her for Talia).

I liked his partner ship with Bullock and wood bring it back (and the Film freak story arc was iirc quite good).

I don't think he ever met Croc again after his origin story, so thee is not much to bring back.

Not sure about the Catwoman thing, I'm not sure if Batman and Catwoman dating at that time fits in the current time line.

Also not sure if bringing back him being kidnapped by Man-Bat would make sense.

I guess I would also bring back Rena and Dr. Fang.

----------


## Sergard

> Ooh, that's good. Yeah. That sounds right.
> 
> Okay, so... fans pretty much accepts Jason these days and doesn't really miss Pre-Crisis Jason, but... are there elements from his old stories anyone wants to bring back if they haven't?
> 
> Example, his relationship with Nocturna, partnership with Bullock, jealousy on Catwoman (by this point he's already grown up and doesn't feel that way, but in flashback, as part of his Robin canon), feud with Killer Croc (they're friends in this version since he helped Roy and he never killed his parents)...


Nocturna won't work in this continuity. She's changed a lot compared to her pre-crisis version. She's a Batwoman villain now.
Bullock would be cool. I loved the Film Freak story. And Red Hood and the Outlaws (2011) #15 mentioned that Jason trusts Bullock.



I can't even remember if there was a post-crisis Robin Jason story including Catwoman. Considering that both are thieves, I feel like post-crisis Jason would have been more inclined to liking Selina than pre-crisis Jason. Was Selina even Bruce' main love interest in post-crisis when Jason was Robin?

I prefer Jason and Killer Croc as friends/being friendly around each other.  But I also prefer it when Killer Croc is not a villain.

----

Sweet fanart by Vorimar:




Dexter Soy shared a little clip of a 3d bust sculpt of the Red Ronin. Looks nice (personally, I could have done without the Joker elements).

----------


## Restingvoice

Yeah, the Bullock partnership is at the top of my list too because it's so cute. 

I don't remember who he dated during Jason's time as Robin. I don't remember if he even dates anyone.

Some thread told me that the way they ended that relationship because they don't really retcon it, is by making Joker brainwash Catwoman so she's a villain again, and then just continue the story from there to Post Crisis, and never mentioned it again

Bruce did date Selina in Post Crisis but in Long Halloween era but they broke it up. Selina didn't know Bruce was Batman and saw him as too busy with other things he can never explain.  

Their relationship is getting that old tension again during Tim's time, with Contagion, No Man's Land, where they have to work together, leading up to Catwoman's Brubaker era and finally Hush when he revealed his identity to her and they became a short******d couple. 

So I guess it won't really work with the Post Crisis timeline.  

How about Chimera? Was he tied to the Circus?

----------


## Aahz

> I don't remember who he dated during Jason's time as Robin. I don't remember if he even dates anyone.


If you mean Bruce, pre crisis, he had 3 main love interests during Jasons time as Robin, Catwoman, Vicky Vale, and Julia Pennyworth (ok she might have been more a potential love interest), and then there were also Talia and Nocturna.

Post Crisis,  you had this Catwoman getting brain washed thing, but I think that was put directly out of canon by Batman Year one, and Vicky only appeared in Jasons Orgin story.




> How about Chimera? Was he tied to the Circus?


I think bringing back the Chimera story arc would only work, if you give it to Dick, due to the Circus connection it doesn't work with Jason.

----------


## Zaresh

> Nocturna won't work in this continuity. She's changed a lot compared to her pre-crisis version. She's a Batwoman villain now.


I think the stuff with Nocturna could be reworked. It's not like it would the first time we straight dismiss an entire concept from New 52 into Rebirth (look at Deathstroke, for example. Or a huge piece Teen Titans). And many of the fans of Kate hate that part, so they would be open to it being forever forgotten, I think.




> I think bringing back the Chimera story arc would only work, if you give it to Dick, due to the Circus connection it doesn't work with Jason.


Suggestion: It could be an* excuse to tell a story with both Jason and Dick working a case  :Big Grin: .

----------


## Sergard

> [...]
> 
> How about Chimera? Was he tied to the Circus?


Yes, Chimera was tied to the circus. 
Chimera was also a rather weak villain who served more as a trial villain for pre-crisis Jason.
If you want to turn Chimera into an interesting villain for Jason Todd/Red Hood you'd probably have to change a lot about the character - therefore, if I was a writer, I wouldn't really bother with Chimera.
(Or I'd give the original Chimera a little cameo, like: original Chimera is still in business because the circus incident never happened in this universe.  He breaks into the house of the "new" Chimera - and then gets killed by the new Chimera).
Especially since there are already other characters named Chimera in the DC universe.
(Chimera also sounds more like a Wonder family villain.)


I'd bring Jack Crane/Savage Skull back. Jack was a good friend of Bullock and it was revealed that they trained street kids in their free time (Detective Comics #528). It would be a nice connection if post-crisis Jason was one of those street kids - especially since it was shown in his post-crisis origin story that he had some basic fighting skills (Batman #409, he was able to stand his ground against three boys bigger and stronger than him before he was wrestled down by half a dozen of people.)

But I wouldn't use Jack Crane as a villain for Red Hood. When I read the pre-crisis story of Jack Crane, I felt like parts of the "true" story were missing. Jack Crane claimed that he shot an arsonist.  The police didn't find any proof - so Jack Crane was removed/fired. The whole police turned their back on him - including Harvey Bullock. Jack Crane lost his face - metaphorically and literally. 

... But what if Jack Crane was right and there was an arsonist?

----------


## Sergard

More Coronavirus fanart:

Quic

_No more patrol for now, stay at home and wash your hands, master Bruce!_





----

And this fanart is just funny:

faustox9285

----------


## Aahz

> Suggestion: It could be an* excuse to tell a story with both Jason and Dick working a case .


Yeah but the story was really more about what was more about what was more about Bruce finally accepting Jason as new partner (the story happened before Jason became Robin), and that wouldn't really work post crisis.

For Dick the story could work as written, if you make the story about Dick and Jason working together that would also be interesting but that would be a pretty different story, and might not really be in line with the original continuity, where they never really worked together (apart from taking down a few Drug dealers in Batman #416).

----------


## Aahz

> But I wouldn't use Jack Crane as a villain for Red Hood. When I read the pre-crisis story of Jack Crane, I felt like parts of the "true" story were missing. Jack Crane claimed that he shot an arsonist.  The police didn't find any proof - so Jack Crane was removed/fired. The whole police turned their back on him - including Harvey Bullock. Jack Crane lost his face - metaphorically and literally.


Thats also one I was thinking about, but IIRC Jason was not working on that case in the original story.

i still would like to see a post crisis version of "Flying Hi", would be interesting how post crisis Jason would handle school kids that do drugs.

----------


## Sergard

> Thats also one I was thinking about, but IIRC Jason was not working on that case in the original story.
> 
> i still would like to see a post crisis version of "Flying Hi", would be interesting how post crisis Jason would handle school kids that do drugs.


That's true. He wasn't working on that case. I also wouldn't let post-crisis Jason work on that case (it would still take place during Jason's pre-Robin training).
I'd let Jason re-investigate the case as Red Hood together with Bullock to give Jack Crane some belated justice - and maybe the friendship between Crane and Bullock can be restored.

Yeah, that would be interesting. Rena can work post-crisis in the same way like pre-crisis. Maybe we could see adult Rena too. If writers want to be cheeky, adult Rena could now date one of the three boys from the Back-up story - that would be a nice combination of pre- and post-crisis stories.

----------


## Aahz

> Yeah, that would be interesting. Rena can work post-crisis in the same way like pre-crisis. Maybe we could see adult Rena too. If writers want to be cheeky, adult Rena could now date one of the three boys from the Back-up story - that would be a nice combination of pre- and post-crisis stories.


They could also bring Shane Rivers back (the "bad guy" from "Flying Hi").





> and maybe the friendship between Crane and Bullock can be restored.


 I think redeeming Crane wouldn't really work, not after turning into a cop killer.

----------


## Sergard

> They could also bring Shane Rivers back (the "bad guy" from "Flying Hi").
> 
> 
> * I think redeeming Crane wouldn't really work, not after turning into a cop killer.*


I'm not talking about Crane being redeemed. He'd still have to remain in prison for killing other cops.
But Bullock could at least show a little bit of understanding for his old friend who had a horrible traumatizing accident, lost his face and then was blamed by "his own people" for something he didn't do.
Not a single person took his side.


It could also be an interesting story line if Jason met some of Ma Gunn's "boys" - the kids that she tried to turn into criminals in the past. Some of them could be big names by now in other cities.

----------


## Ssstammerer

The official Lego Minifigures of all Jason Todd/Red Hood and their respective 'variants'.  :Cool: 

#JasonToddPH #RedHoodPH #Lego #Minifigures #LegoMinifigures

----------


## Restingvoice

When was the first time Jason depicted out of character if we use UTRH as a basis? 

This is different than character development, of course. That's when he first feel "okay fine I'm not gonna kill Joker"

----------


## Aahz

> When was the first time Jason depicted out of character if we use UTRH as a basis?


I would say either when he was Nightwing (Nightwing #118), or post Count Down (Robin #177).

----------


## Restingvoice

> I would say either when he was Nightwing (Nightwing #118), or post-Count Down (Robin #177).


Jason as Nightwing was right after Infinite Crisis as part of what Didio wanted at that time. That early, huh? Straight up his second appearance?

----------


## Sergard

Here's some cute Young Justice fanart by T Z.

----------


## Sergard

Paolo Pantalena

_Blam blam blam...from Red Hood and Outlaws, stay safe everyone!_

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I wonder if that girl in the back is supposed to be Isabel.

----------


## Sergard

> I wonder if that girl in the back is supposed to be Isabel.


The girl with the long hair?

----------


## Zaresh

> I wonder if that girl in the back is supposed to be Isabel.


I don't think it's her.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Well, the composition of the pic has as focus characters that are either part of the Outlaws or associated with them (Major Glory to the right of Jason, Bizarro on top). The ones missing are Artemis and Isabel/Essence. We can discard Artemis leaving only Isabel/Essence. However, the body language of our mysterious girl  is in line with Isabel's rather than Essence.

----------


## Zaresh

> Well, the composition of the pic has as focus characters that are either part of the Outlaws or associated with them (Major Glory to the right of Jason, Bizarro on top). The ones missing are Artemis and Isabel/Essence. We can discard Artemis leaving only Isabel/Essence. However, the body language of our mysterious girl  is in line with Isabel's rather than Essence.


I only see Jason, a bunch of zombies (untitled, I guess), that woman, some random old, bald guy in a fighting pose (Major Glory. Sorry, I had problems reading his lineart. Blame my short sighting), and what looks like the body of some big guy that could or could not be Bizarro (I don't think he is). For me, it looks like Jason (and* Glory) opening his way, and the way of a bunch of average, non vigilante humans, throughout a* horde of monsters.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Is Bizarro, is the same tanktop he's wearing in the preview of issue #44



Going further with my speculation, I'd say that girl is sort of a merge between Essence and Isabel, with Isabel's personality clearly in charge.

----------


## Sergard

> Is Bizarro, is the same tanktop he's wearing in the preview of issue #44
> 
> 
> 
> Going further with my speculation, I'd say that girl is sort of a merge between Essence and Isabel, with Isabel's personality clearly in charge.


It's not completely impossible - but Isabel would still have to change clothes first. Those are neither Isabel's nor Essence' clothes.

----

I think I simultaneously hate and like General Grandpa.
He reminds me a little bit of Aka Inu from One Piece.
Let's just hope that Jason doesn't end up like Portgas D. Ace.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Their clothes merging would part of the package.

----------


## Zaresh

> Their clothes merging would part of the package.


Not liking the idea. It doesn't make sense :/.
I mean, it could be her. Or, it wouldn't be rare either if it were some artwork inconsistency.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Is magic, it doesn't have to make sense. For a clearer example, think of the way fusions work on Dragon Ball (specifically Potara).

----------


## Zaresh

> Is magic, it doesn't have to make sense. For a clearer example, think of the way fusions work on Dragon Ball (specifically Potara).


It still doesn't make sense. I think it only works because as kids we suspend any disbelief and roll with it. Same for invisible clothimg and stuff. But here most of the readers are older teens or young adults, and besides, there's no precedent in the story for a fusion to work like that.

I mean, it can be that, but if it is, I'm not going to like it. But just me.

----------


## Sergard

I wouldn't call it "fusion". Essence is more of a parasite - similar to the Untitled who take over the body of a normal person and transform it.
But instead of killing the host, Essence has some symbiotic elements. Isabel is still "there" - but she's not in control.
Well, not at first. If this is really Isabel in the panel, maybe she's found a way to fight back.

-----

Well, good thing RH:O #44 is coming out this week: Diamond Comic Distributors No Longer Taking In New Comics

----------


## Sergard

I've found a Robin poll on Instagram. Nothing big. People eliminate each round the Robin that they like the least.
Carrie and Stephanie are already out - so it's just the four main Robins. And here comes the big surprise. I thought Jason would go next. But so far there are only Damian and Tim comments.
I'm glad that I neither like Tim nor Damian - but even as an outsider, this feud between Damian Wayne fans and Tim Drake fans is annoying.
The "community" here also seems to be in a bad mood today.
But comic community being toxic and hateful towards each other is nothing new. *sigh*

Can we just pretend that RH:O takes place in a different universe where the rest of the batfamily doesn't exist?
I'm just so tired of some discussions, stans/fan bias, hypocrisy and straight out lies.

----------


## Aahz

https://jjmk-jjmk.tumblr.com/post/61...med-jason-todd

----------


## Sergard

JJMK is like medicine for my wounded soul  :Embarrassment: 

JJMK

_"Roy"_



And I also love

fishtre



Well, there are actually a lot of fan artists that I like. And I regularly find new ones that I enjoy. Twitter, Tumblr and Instagram are great sources. Although Instagram can be tricky sometimes because a lot of people post stuff without credit.

----------


## Zaresh

Beautiful pictures.

Cher up, @Sergard! At least here we can always chill and discuss stuff at ease.

----------


## Restingvoice

So continuing where I left off, would Jason bother filling in for Dick as Nightwing? My impression was as written he did it for kicks that has nothing to do with his goal in UTRH

No, wait, more important question, would he have forgiven Bruce for slitting his throat when he wanted him to kill Joker? How did he take that?

----------


## Zaresh

> So continuing where I left off, would Jason bother filling in for Dick as Nightwing? My impression was as written he did it for kicks that has nothing to do with his goal in UTRH
> 
> No, wait, more important question, would he have forgiven Bruce for slitting his throat when he wanted him to kill Joker? How did he take that?


So, that awful story in Nightwing that had Dick being er, not very brotherly, and Jason being kinda murderous and violent and ending with some fancy tentacles.. Brothers in Blood? As far as I know, was originally meant to be a story about Jason filling in the Nightwing costume and name after Dick gave up on it.
I think he would be open to fill in, as long as there were no better candidate. Which Tim or Damian would be, by far, and more willed to do so at this point.

In my opinion, Jason is forgiving to some degree. He doesn't forget, he can hold grunges hard; but he can forgive tough stuff. To certain degree at least. And he loves Bruce, even if he doesn't trust him anymore. I think he would forgive him, if that were in the current continuity; but he would also remind him what he did without remorse, to deliver his point, as he usually does. /Edit: using it as some kind of emotional ammunition if needed./ That's something Lobdell got perfectly right from Judd Winick's take, I think.

Edit: I love how my computer randomly decides to uppercase letters and put commas here and there, no matter what I actually type.

----------


## Jackalope89

> So continuing where I left off, would Jason bother filling in for Dick as Nightwing? My impression was as written he did it for kicks that has nothing to do with his goal in UTRH
> 
> No, wait, more important question, would he have forgiven Bruce for slitting his throat when he wanted him to kill Joker? How did he take that?


Yeah, comic ending to UTRH always bugged me. Animated one was better (Bruce threw a Batarang into the gun's barrel, making at worse, a hand wound, but Jason wore heavy gloves). I can understand pre-Flashpoint Jason being even more pissed off at Bruce (not to mention saving Joker while slitting his son's throat during that), and thus being very antagonistic towards him.

Post-flashpoint, we know _some_ version of UTRH happened, but little details like that are left out. Possibly the animated movie version.

----------


## Restingvoice

Yeah attacking the gun or hand makes more sense. It's really hard to aim for the neck when the neck is behind Joker's head

Tell me about this one

"Jason appears once more in several issues of Green Arrow alongside Brick as part of a gun-running organization, which brings Batman to Star City. 
Jason's true motives are shown in the third part as he kidnaps Mia Dearden (Speedy) in an effort to convert her to his side, feeling that they are kindred spirits, cast down by society and at odds with their mentors.
The two fight while conversing but when Jason is unsuccessful in his bid to turn Mia, he settles for blowing up her high school. Mia is deeply troubled by what transpired between her and Jason but ultimately decides to stick with Green Arrow."

Doesn't sound good

----------


## Zaresh

> Yeah attacking the gun or hand makes more sense. It's really hard to aim for the neck when the neck is behind Joker's head
> 
> Tell me about this one
> 
> "Jason appears once more in several issues of Green Arrow alongside Brick as part of a gun-running organization, which brings Batman to Star City. 
> Jason's true motives are shown in the third part as he kidnaps Mia Dearden (Speedy) in an effort to convert her to his side, feeling that they are kindred spirits, cast down by society and at odds with their mentors.
> The two fight while conversing but when Jason is unsuccessful in his bid to turn Mia, he settles for blowing up her high school. Mia is deeply troubled by what transpired between her and Jason but ultimately decides to stick with Green Arrow."
> 
> Doesn't sound good


I haven't read that Green Arrow's story, but it was Winick's run as far as I recall, so it probably wasn't out of character in the comic itself, as much as it sounds in that summary. I know he wasn't in Winick's Outsiders (that one I did read).

----------


## Sergard

> Beautiful pictures.
> 
> Cher up, @Sergard! At least here we can always chill and discuss stuff at ease.


Thanks for the cheer-up!
Today I'm pretty happy. I've found some cute Animal Crossing stuff on Twitter.



(source)




(source)



(source)

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Well, now I can't wait for Red Hood on the White Knight universe.

https://imgur.com/ANQA38p

----------


## Rise

This page definitely made me excited for what he is planning for Jason.

----------


## Zaresh

I don't think he's Jason though. I mean...

*spoilers:*
I may have forgotten something but, doesn't Bruce think Jason is dead? Why would he call for a guy who he thinks is dead to help holding him locked up? Not to mention that this guy looks pretty dark skinned, while Jason didn't look any kind of tanned in that flashback in White Knight.

I think it may be Mr Bones, who amusingly bears the surname Todd now and is tied to the Suicide Squad somehow. Which would make sense. Hummm....

*end of spoilers*

Edit: btw, now that I think about it, if Murphy wants to make the Red Hood name coming from somewhere else that's not related to gangs in the underworld of Gotham, a redcap, which is some being from the british folklore, could come handy.

----------


## Jackalope89

If that is Jason... Can't say I like shaved-headed Jason, personally. Though him being in the military (seemingly), is a different take on him, I give you that.

----------


## Zaresh

> If that is Jason... Can't say I like shaved-headed Jason, personally. Though him being in the military (seemingly), is a different take on him, I give you that.


*spoilers:*

Him being military is another reason why I don't think it's him and he's Robert Todd instead. That, and the gloves. I can see Murphy changing the hardcore cyanide-producing transparent skin Bones has into something less, er, extreme but still cool as a concept.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I don't think he's Jason though. I mean...
> 
> *spoilers:*
> I may have forgotten something but, doesn't Bruce think Jason is dead? Why would he call for a guy who he thinks is dead to help holding him locked up? Not to mention that this guy looks pretty dark skinned, while Jason didn't look any kind of tanned in that flashback in White Knight.
> 
> I think it may be Mr Bones, who amusingly bears the surname Todd now and is tied to the Suicide Squad somehow. Which would make sense. Hummm....
> 
> *end of spoilers*
> 
> Edit: btw, now that I think about it, if Murphy wants to make the Red Hood name coming from somewhere else that's not related to gangs in the underworld of Gotham, a redcap, which is some being from the british folklore, could come handy.


*spoilers:*
Jack revealed the truth about Jason during issue 7 of the first series. 

https://imgur.com/uPzBPBC

As for the tan,  he's an army officer and certainly has been on the field explaining the tan. That said, I don't think he's tanned and is simply the color used. I can't see any noticeable difference between Jason and Bruce's skintone on those pages.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Sergard

Of course that's Jason.  :Big Grin: 
Look at the shadows. There are Batman and Robin.

----------


## Zaresh

> *spoilers:*
> Jack revealed the truth about Jason during issue 7 of the first series. 
> 
> https://imgur.com/uPzBPBC
> 
> As for the tan,  he's an army officer and certainly has been on the field explaining the tan. That said, I don't think he's tanned and is simply the color used. I can't see any noticeable difference between Jason and Bruce's skintone on those pages.
> *end of spoilers*


Man, my memory sucks. How could've I forgotten that part?

I see a different color between Bruce and that guy in that page, probably an effect of the different palettes in the picture, but I do see a difference between both. But as I've been pointed out, people withing the same ethnic groups can have different skintones (even when usually you don't see that in this kind of comics).

Edit: oh, I totally missed that shadow in the page.
Yeah, it's Jason.

----------


## Zaresh

Ok. So... 

*spoilers:*

If Jason is a cop (I guess he's some kind of outside-the-city officer? I missed the badge too. I need my glasses now), I guess the Red Hood is going to be a different character for a while, maybe?
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Sergard

Jason looks ... healthy. (Jason may want to size up his jacket. It looks a little tight around the chest area xD)
The only thing I'm not sure about is his left eye. It looks closed - and there seems to be a scar. Maybe he has lost an eye? But this could also be the artwork.

I first thought that Jason wears a military uniform. But the badge reads Stonegate (and something with "correction").
Is this the prison Bruce is in? Did Bruce order Montoya to find Jason so that Jason could be Bruce' prison guard?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Jason looks ... healthy. (Jason may want to size up his jacket. It looks a little tight around the chest area xD)
> The only thing I'm not sure about is his left eye. It looks closed - and there seems to be a scar. Maybe he has lost an eye? But this could also be the artwork.
> 
> I first thought that Jason wears a military uniform. But the badge reads Stonegate (and something with "correction").
> Is this the prison Bruce is in? Did Bruce order Montoya to find Jason so that Jason could be Bruce' prison guard?


Looking for Stonegate, shows is a penitentiary created for the animated series

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Stonegate_Penitentiary

----------


## Zaresh

> Jason looks ... healthy. (Jason may want to size up his jacket. It looks a little tight around the chest area xD)
> The only thing I'm not sure about is his left eye. It looks closed - and there seems to be a scar. Maybe he has lost an eye? But this could also be the artwork.
> 
> I first thought that Jason wears a military uniform. But the badge reads Stonegate (and something with "correction").
> Is this the prison Bruce is in? Did Bruce order Montoya to find Jason so that Jason could be Bruce' prison guard?


Mmmm... Could be.
It can go interesting places. (I'm having a Mr Burns "Excellent" moment here)




> Looking for Stonegate, shows is a penitentiary created for the animated series
> 
> https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Stonegate_Penitentiary


Makes sense.

----------


## Sergard

Travis Mercer

_First look at WIP for Red Hood. So happy for the chance to draw Essence! One of my favorite of the @scottylobdell created characters!_

----------


## Restingvoice

> I would say either when he was Nightwing (Nightwing #118), or post Count Down (Robin #177).


Forgot to ask, what happened in Robin #177?

----------


## Jackalope89

> Forgot to ask, what happened in Robin #177?


I think that was when Jason ambushed Tim in Titans Tower. Don't quote me on that though.

----------


## Zaresh

> I think that was when Jason ambushed Tim in Titans Tower. Don't quote me on that though.


No, I think that happened in Johns' TT. Again, I as well may be wrong.
Robin 177 is near the end of the run, so it could be just before Battle for the Cowl.
Edit: I glanced (again, because I remember reading this sometime ago) over that issue, an encounter disconnected to any other stuff happening in the big storylines. Man, Tim's OYL costume* is so nice.

----------


## RedBird

A little late but...

I really liked the Robin anniversary overall, and I especially loved Jay's story.
I had already assumed it would be a contrasting 'then and now' kind of story, but I thought the direction was going to be more like a, 'Jason reminisces about the time he 'disobeyed' and 'failed' and how this made him into the resentful Red Hood', kind of thing, etc. Instead, this has an emotional impact that is very much akin to the 'tug at your heartstrings' final scene from the UTRH animated film.

It was simple, tender and bittersweet, with a nice little analogy using the watch/time, and it presented an adorably enthusiastic, sassy, thoughtful and sweet Robin Jason. The complex relationship between Bruce and Jason is still clearly as enduring in the story despite the pain and resentment. The art was also very beautiful and effective in how it displayed the strong contrast and similarities within the two timelines. I always welcome more stories like this that actually highlight Jason's positive and endearing characteristics as Robin, and furthermore show how those characteristics followed him even through his dramatic transformation as Red Hood.

----------


## RedBird

> Of course that's Jason. 
> Look at the shadows. There are Batman and Robin.


Also notice that Jason is presented in three colors, green, yellow and red.

----------


## Zaresh

> Also notice that Jason is presented in three colors, green, yellow and red.


I feel so lame, sigh. I can't believe myself sometimes.

/*dramatic gesture.

----------


## Aahz

> Forgot to ask, what happened in Robin #177?


That's before BFC, where Jason takes control over several gangs and starts a gang war to take over Gotham. And is them taken down by Tim and put in prison.

Thats kind of the start of the Jason going full villain, we had during Morrisons Run.

----------


## redmax99

> Forgot to ask, what happened in Robin #177?


robin 177  jason was trying to unite all the gangs as there leader tim found out about it jason ask for help tim told him no jason open fire trying to draw  tim near him so they can fight. the general show up wearing the red robin out fit jason tried to shoot him because he was wearing the RR outfit but one of the gang leaders found jason gun and shot him, jason get sent to prison. it's basically the lead up to tim donning the red robin outfit he find out from donna who gave jason the suit and why jason would flip out about it. 

178-179 Tim dons the RR cowl for the first time the general kills his brother and sister. tim take jason plan for uniting the gangs and actually smooth out the edges like jason ask. alfred talk tim into getting jason out of jail and tim frame it as doing a favor for bruce. You Get jason and tim acknowledging each other as family in their own way. next up robin 183 bruce leave jason a horrible last will setting up BFTC.

----------


## redmax99

> Yeah attacking the gun or hand makes more sense. It's really hard to aim for the neck when the neck is behind Joker's head
> 
> Tell me about this one
> 
> "Jason appears once more in several issues of Green Arrow alongside Brick as part of a gun-running organization, which brings Batman to Star City. 
> Jason's true motives are shown in the third part as he kidnaps Mia Dearden (Speedy) in an effort to convert her to his side, feeling that they are kindred spirits, cast down by society and at odds with their mentors.
> The two fight while conversing but when Jason is unsuccessful in his bid to turn Mia, he settles for blowing up her high school. Mia is deeply troubled by what transpired between her and Jason but ultimately decides to stick with Green Arrow."
> 
> Doesn't sound good


it's actually a good story. it got plenty of batman fans upset,Jason haters and lovers at the time complain about the way Bruce talk about him. They took everything at surface level not understanding his action. Plus you have two of the worst parents sniping about each other parenting skills.

----------


## gregpersons

> Jason looks ... healthy. (Jason may want to size up his jacket. It looks a little tight around the chest area xD)
> The only thing I'm not sure about is his left eye. It looks closed - and there seems to be a scar. Maybe he has lost an eye? But this could also be the artwork.
> 
> I first thought that Jason wears a military uniform. But the badge reads Stonegate (and something with "correction").
> Is this the prison Bruce is in? Did Bruce order Montoya to find Jason so that Jason could be Bruce' prison guard?


Yes, exactly. He's saying he wants someone there who can make sure Bruce won't escape, because he can of course escape anything. So they bring in Jason Todd, by Bruce's request.

Bruce found out Jason was alive from Jack Napier (the sane version of Joker) in the first series. In this universe, Jason was the first Robin, then sometime after his death/disappearance, Bruce adopted Dick Grayson. 

It appears that Jason Todd is probably a high level government/military assassin of some kind. Murphy likes to incorporate story points from Bat movies and other media, so I think it could be quite possible that this Jason might be a more "Arkham Knight" version of the Red Hood, at least to begin with, or a different name entirely -- maybe he'll be "The Comedian". I've always thought that names like "Jason Todd" and "Tim Drake" were strong enough to be their own "Nightwing" names without a codename honestly, though in-universe they can be called whatever you want. Like "Damian" is probably referred to as "Damian" more than he is "Robin." They can all be Robin as far as I'm concerned, and I think Murphy's view is similar -- in the first series, that same issue #7, Barbara tells Dick he's still basically Robin even if he's not calling himself that. And she basically is too. 

So yeah my guess is Jason Todd left Gotham to become basically a global secret agent or private military operator. It's also possible that Murphy could throw a curveball on Todd's usual angsty persona and instead portray this Jason as a broken man who is more like a minister of peace; he's in military garb but he might not necessarily have a heart of violence like we assume. He probably will though.

But I'm definitely excited by the prospect of the Trial... and I assume we'll see more of Harvey Dent/Two Face, who idk if we've even seen yet? I might be misremembering. In post-Crisis continuity, Dent killed Jason's father over a gambling debt so there's a connection between those two characters as possibilities for a Trial series.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I wouldn't expect Murphy to reference relatively obscure trivia from old comics. Let's not forget the whole reason Jason is the first Robin in the White Knight universe is because Murphy mixed up his Robins.

----------


## gregpersons

> I wouldn't expect Murphy to reference relatively obscure trivia from old comics. Let's not forget the whole reason Jason is the first Robin in the White Knight universe is because Murphy mixed up his Robins.


Did he confirm it was a mix up? Murphy seems to have a good handle on trivia, even if there's clearly a big influence from outside-comics media. There's a lot of references to Batman '89 obviously but also there were a lot of callbacks to specific panels in Knightfall throughout this.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Did he confirm it was a mix up? Murphy seems to have a good handle on trivia, even if there's clearly a big influence from outside-comics media. There's a lot of references to Batman '89 obviously but also there were a lot of callbacks to specific panels in Knightfall throughout this.


Yup




> Through his own admittance, *Murphy is not very knowledgeable about comics continuity. He also didn't intend to use Jason Todd in the story because he didn't know enough about him.* Then, when Murphy needed to add something for the Joker to do that was so bad even Harley Quinn quit, Jason's murder came into the picture.
> 
> It was only after the final decisions on White Knight #2 were made that he realized what this meant for the order of Robins. Thankfully, it's a subtle change and fans haven't seemed to mind, if they even noticed it at all. In his Twitter thread, Murphy was quick to thank his readers for not being too hard on him about it. After all, it's not in continuity, so anything can be changed.


https://www.cbr.com/batman-white-kni...in-chronology/

----------


## Sergard

More "Jason Todd" in Animal Crossing New Horizons. So cute xD

source: Sdimo





source: Sdimo

----------


## Sergard

source: zumaon (There's a Roy version too xD)

----------


## Jackalope89

Jason in Fallout New Vegas.

----------


## Sergard

Kenneth Rocafort is drawing on a Red Hood commission. I love his style and color palette.

Travis Mercer has posted a little sneak peek of Artemis.

_Tiny Tease of Ms. Grace WIP. What has her so worried???!!!_








> Yes, exactly. He's saying he wants someone there who can make sure Bruce won't escape, because he can of course escape anything. So they bring in Jason Todd, by Bruce's request.
> 
> Bruce found out Jason was alive from Jack Napier (the sane version of Joker) in the first series. In this universe, Jason was the first Robin, then sometime after his death/disappearance, Bruce adopted Dick Grayson. 
> *
> It appears that Jason Todd is probably a high level government/military assassin of some kind.* [...]


What gives you that impression?
As far as I can see, Jason is wearing the clothes of a correctional officer of Stonegate. And judging by the dialogue, it's his first day wearing this uniform.
Even his haircut could be interpreted as him shaving his head for his "new job". Of course, there are other possibilites for that haircut: genetics, Jason's preference, Murphy's preference, military background, maybe Jason was in jail, maybe Jason lost a bet, etc.

----------


## Sergard

Fancy cosplay stuff from Instagram:

source: darkknightfx

_Finally got around to redoing the 3d models for my Arkham Knight gauntlets. Ive tried to make these a bit more accurate than the ones from my current mold. Ive also etched in some indents into the main body so that I have designated spots to glue the fins into place.. next step will be printing these up and making an updated V2 mold. Hope you like it and I hope everyone is safe and keeping busy. 3d modeled using @zbrushatpixologic ZBrush_




source: makesmithforge

_Hard at work and never bored_

----------


## Sergard

Paolo Pantalena

_Some little details of Artemis vs Essence_

----------


## Zaresh

> Paolo Pantalena
> 
> _Some little details of Artemis vs Essence_


Artemis is looking really pissed there.
Excellent.

----------


## Sergard

> Artemis is looking really pissed there.
> Excellent.


Maybe Artemis has realized that Essence is possessing Isabel's body.
Considering that Artemis was controlled by someone else (Caden) recently and therefore knows how shitty such a situation is, it would be only natural for her to be really pissed.

----------


## Sergard

... I can't ... This is just too good xD

JJMK

----------


## Zaresh

> ... I can't ... This is just too good xD
> 
> JJMK


Hilarious!

----------


## Sergard

My two favorite DC related Corona memes are still these two (off-topic):



(source)



(source - but not the original source, artist unknown so far)


-----

And something that's not off-topic: 

I LOVE JASON TODD

----------


## Jackalope89

> My two favorite DC related Corona memes are still these two (off-topic):
> 
> 
> 
> (source)
> 
> 
> 
> (source - but not the original source, artist unknown so far)
> ...


All were good, but that last one was especially good, considering the Robin anniversary special.

----------


## Sergard

This figurine looks incredible. (3D sculpture, not official)

stivens_trujillo_3d_art

----------


## Sergard

The temptation to play the game (Animal Crossing New Horizons) myself is getting stronger and stronger. xD





(source)




(source)

----------


## Sergard

One has to love Jensen Ackles  :Smile: 

Supernatural's Jensen Ackles Revisits the Red Hood During Lockdown

----------


## Aahz

> 


They should let Jason go up against the Clock King.

----------


## Sergard

One can always rely on Dexter Soy to provide some fantastic Jason artwork.

"_chillin in the name_"




And seems like Artemis' hair is returning to its former length.

Travis Mercer

_Even when drawing Tiny figures, the Attitude can still be big! Especially when it comes to Artemis_

----------


## Sergard

"Interesting" conversation on Twitter:

lrate Protectrix of Juan and Jim Corvus

Twitter Irate Corvus 31-03-2020.jpg

Judd Winick

Twitter Judd Winick 31-03-2020.jpg

----------


## Restingvoice

> "Interesting" conversation on Twitter:
> 
> lrate “Protectrix of Juan and Jim” Corvus
> 
> Twitter Irate Corvus 31-03-2020.jpg
> 
> Judd Winick
> 
> Twitter Judd Winick 31-03-2020.jpg


Did he get drunk on waffles to forget the experience?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I hate when writers play along with dumb headcanons like that.

----------


## Sergard

> I hate when writers play along with dumb headcanons like that.


People joking isn't really a "headcanon".
And an overworked person falling asleep in a public place isn't that extraordinary.
At least, I've seen dumber things in canon.



Does anyone know what's up with Lobdell's announcement on Instagram? Is Lobdell going to write some X-Men stuff?



I've found this fanart on Twitter and I think it's incredible cute. I especially like Batman's shadow in the background.

Rıza Çiziyor

----------


## Zaresh

> Does anyone know what's up with Lobdell's announcement on Instagram? Is Lobdell going to write some X-Men stuff?


No idea. I guess it's a possibility, but I don't think it's going to be that either. Just my hunch.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Chances are this is our first look at Jason in the BTAS universe

----------


## Jackalope89

Will be interesting to see how this "Under the Red Hood" goes.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Does anyone know what's up with Lobdell's announcement on Instagram? Is Lobdell going to write some X-Men stuff?


Is an initiative to self publish comics on Instagram, I think?

https://www.instagram.com/p/B-dj7NQh4Km/

----------


## Zaresh

> Is an initiative to self publish comics on Instagram, I think?
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/B-dj7NQh4Km/


Looks like.
Edit: also, could be a joke. April fool's, I can't believe I forgot about it. Damn virus.

------

Looking at the figure for Jason in this BTAS verse, it's him, more than likely. But I noticed that they've changed the design a little bit. Scar is in the other side of the face, and his haircut and jaw seem a bit different, softer somehow, younger-like I guess.

I just hope they give him brows.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Looks like.
> Edit: also, could be a joke. April fool's, I can't believe I forgot about it. Damn virus.
> 
> ------
> 
> Looking at the figure for Jason in this BTAS verse, it's him, more than likely. But I noticed that they've changed the design a little bit. Scar is in the other side of the face, and his haircut and jaw seem a bit different, softer somehow, younger-like I guess.
> 
> I just hope they give him brows.


Yeah, the initial designs for BTAS Jason had him looking older than Bruce. So this seemingly younger looking Jason (I hope) already feels a little better.

----------


## Sergard

> Chances are this is our first look at Jason in the BTAS universe




"It looks like this is going to get personal." - Robot destroys Wayne Tech building.
Even if you don't know that this is Jason, you still know that mystery man knows that Batman is Bruce Wayne.

----------


## Sergard

Travis Mercer

_"DO YOU THINK YOURE 6 FEET AWAY!!!?? Love drawing Essence!!!"_




Paul Harding

_"Some early color shots prior to full articulation. Batman: The Adventures Continue Red Hood and Azrael Batman. Designed by @templeton.ty for @dcdirect"_



Jason's jacket looks so cosy  :Smile:

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Nice model, a shame that the toyline is so pricey for what it offers.

----------


## Sergard

> Nice model, a shame that the toyline is so pricey for what it offers.


I'm just glad that the body shape is more balanced compared to, for example, Azrael or Deathstroke.
The extreme-broad-shoulders-and-skinny-legs-look doesn't work for me. 






> Looks like.
> Edit: also, could be a joke. April fool's, I can't believe I forgot about it. Damn virus.
> 
> ------
> 
> [...]


It's real: QuaranComics

----------


## Zaresh

> It's real: QuaranComics


Oh, I see.
Cool.

----------


## Sergard

I wonder what backstory Jason will have in the BTAS universe.
He apparently knows that Batman is Bruce Wayne but he probably was never Robin. (I haven't watched BTAS but I guess the series made it pretty clear that Dick is the first and Tim the second Robin.)
He's still Red Hood - and he has a white streak which is interesting.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I wonder what backstory Jason will have in the BTAS universe.
> He apparently knows that Batman is Bruce Wayne but he probably was never Robin. (I haven't watched BTAS but I guess the series made it pretty clear that Dick is the first and Tim the second Robin.)
> He's still Red Hood - and he has a white streak which is interesting.


It honestly is rather different. As Dini and Timm wanted to use Jason, but were told no. So they used Jason's character, but named him Tim.

----------


## Sergard

> It honestly is rather different. As Dini and Timm wanted to use Jason, but were told no. So they used Jason's character, but named him Tim.


Did they give Tim Jason's origin?

----------


## Jackalope89

> Did they give Tim Jason's origin?


From wikipedia itself;



> Tim Drake
> In The New Batman Adventures Tim Drake became the second person to brand the Robin costume. Tim was the son of a thug named Steven Drake. He worked for the crime lord Two-Face for quite some time. Tim's father was never really around so he spent most of his time idolizing Batman and even putting clippings of his actions on the wall. Tim's father began to have problems with Two-Face. When he doubled crossed him Steven fled the city, leaving his son a note and a key to a locker at a Gotham City airport. Two-Face found out about the key and went after Tim. This led to him kidnapping and almost executing him, but Batman was able to get there and rescue him from Two-Face. Later on, they found out that Steven was killed outside of Gotham. With no one else to take care of Tim, Bruce decided to adopt him and trained him in several martial arts, this led to Tim becoming Robin and taking over (for Dick Grayson, the original Robin) as Batman's sidekick.

----------


## Aahz

> I wonder what backstory Jason will have in the BTAS universe.


My guess is that he is from an alternate Earth.

----------


## Sergard

> From wikipedia itself;


So theoretically, Jason can still be a kid that steals the tyres of the bat-mobile. 




> My guess is that he is from an alternate Earth.


Is it normal in BTAS that people from an alternate earth appear?

----------


## Aahz

> Is it normal in BTAS that people from an alternate earth appear?


It is not normal, but with the Justice Lords there was at least one alternate earth in the DCAU.

----------


## Sergard

> It is not normal, but with the Justice Lords there was at least one alternate earth in the DCAU.


I have just remembered that there's also a Batman Who Laughs figure, so there's at least one new character who origins from an alternate earth.
On the other hand, "I forgot how much fun Gotham can be." sounds more like Jason has at some point in the past lived in this Gotham.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Look at the number of fingers Veronica is showing to Bruce



Chances are Jason is being retconned into the BTAS timeline ala Arkham Knight.

----------


## Zaresh

> My guess is that he is from an alternate Earth.


The woman with Bruce points to three kids under Bruce wing. Then Bruce proceeds to point out that Tim is just his ward, not adopted.
I think they retconned him in between, but not as a Robin.

But could be that he's from another earth somehow. I don't know. They didn't play with that trope in the Timmverse. They played the time card though. with time travelling and changes between timelines.

Edit: ah, crap. This is what happens when I don't refresh my page in a while.
Edit: ok, so that alternate earth it was in a movie? Makes sense that I couldn't remember that. In any case, I didn't. I think there was some reference in JL, though.

----------


## Aahz

> I have just remembered that there's also a Batman Who Laughs figure, so there's at least one new character who origins from an alternate earth.


There are also AzzBat, Vampire-Batman and Flashpoint Batman figures coming, who are also likely from other earths (especially Flashpoint Batman).

----------


## Sergard

> There are also AzzBat, Vampire-Batman and Flashpoint Batman figures coming, who are also likely from other earths (especially Flashpoint Batman).


Oh, I forgot about them too.
I'm curious how they are going to introduce Azrael.
Hush is announced too. I wonder if he'll play a role in Jason's story.

----------


## Jackalope89

> The woman with Bruce points to three kids under Bruce wing. Then Bruce proceeds to point out that Tim is just his ward, not adopted.
> I think they retconned him in between, but not as a Robin.
> 
> But could be that he's from another earth somehow. I don't know. They didn't play with that trope in the Timmverse. They played the time card though. with time travelling and changes between timelines.
> 
> Edit: ah, crap. This is what happens when I don't refresh my page in a while.
> Edit: ok, so that alternate earth it was in a movie? Makes sense that I couldn't remember that. In any case, I didn't. I think there was some reference in JL, though.


Justice Lords was in the Justice League series, so canonical, but not seen in the Batman series itself. Not a movie (an arc though, but the effects of it remained with the Justice League for quite awhile). 

Then there was Crisis on Two Earths, which was meant to be an "in between" of the original JL and JLU, but a number of changes in it made it kind of hard to see it that way (still a good film by itself though).

----------


## Aahz

> I'm curious how they are going to introduce Azrael.


Introducing Azreal wouldn't be much pof a problem, but since the the Knightfall Batman and not Azrael, things might get tricky, but White Knight also introduced him without Knightfall.

----------


## Sergard

> Introducing Azrael wouldn't be much of a problem, but since the the Knightfall Batman and not Azrael, things might get tricky, but White Knight also introduced him without Knightfall.


Yeah, I meant Jean-Paul as Batman, sorry for the confusion. But it is funny that _Batman: The Adventures Continue_ #1 starts out with Bane trying to break Batman's back.
Jason watching Batman fight a robot could also be a little reference to BUtH where Batman fought the android Amazo.




> Look at the number of fingers Veronica is showing to Bruce
> 
> 
> 
> Chances are Jason is being retconned into the BTAS timeline ala Arkham Knight.


The dialogue then goes on with:

Bruce: "Tim is my ward. He's been with me for a while."
Veroniqa: "Don't you ever think these boys could use a mother's touch? Alone in that big, drafty mansion. I imagine they feel as you must have felt at one time. Alone. Forgotten ..."

I'm not sure if Veroniqa is a trustworthy source for information.
The three fingers could be more of an Easter Egg/hint by the artist.

----------


## Aahz

https://twitter.com/ArtofNickRobles

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> The three fingers could be more of an *Easter Egg/hint* by the artist.


Add Foreshadowing and that is exactly what it is. 




> https://twitter.com/ArtofNickRobles


I don't like the streak at all. Is either generic "bad boy" look, makes him look really old or like Jason Blood. There's not even an in-story reason for it. And before someone brings it, using the "Is for the Lazarus pit" it also means Jason is a balding red head.

----------


## Sergard

Here's the other artwork by Nick Robles (Jason Todd beefcake sketch, as he calls it):



Well, that's the closest Jason will probably ever be to the Sandman universe. (Nick Robles is the artist of THE DREAMING: WAKING HOURS.)

Personally, I like the white streak but it shouldn't be created by the Lazarus Pit. So many people have bathed in the Pit and not one of them came out with a white streak. It would make no sense for Jason to be the only one.

----------


## Zaresh

> Here's the other artwork by Nick Robles (Jason Todd beefcake sketch, as he calls it):
> 
> 
> 
> Well, that's the closest Jason will probably ever be to the Sandman universe. (Nick Robles is the artist of THE DREAMING: WAKING HOURS.)
> 
> Personally, I like the white streak but it shouldn't be created by the Lazarus Pit. So many people have bathed in the Pit and not one of them came out with a white streak. It would make no sense for Jason to be the only one.


I love these pencils, to be honest. I saw this picture yesteday and went "woah" when I saw it.

----------


## Sergard

> I love these pencils, to be honest. I saw this picture yesteday and went "woah" when I saw it.


Yeah, me too. "Woah" is a good description of my reaction.
But I'm still not a fan of the mouth helmet.

There's currently a #SixFanartsChallenge going on (Twitter, Instagram, etc.). You have probably seen that too.

Here's, for example, the artwork by Dan Mora:

----------


## Zaresh

> Yeah, me too. "Woah" is a good description of my reaction.
> But I'm still not a fan of the mouth helmet.
> 
> There's currently a #SixFanartsChallenge going on (Twitter, Instagram, etc.). You have probably seen that too.



Yep. Saw it too. Cool stuff.

----------


## Sergard

Someone made a fanart of the Waffle House joke on Twitter (with Judd Winick).
I think it's cute that someone actually took the time to draw this.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Yeah, me too. "Woah" is a good description of my reaction.
> But I'm still not a fan of the mouth helmet.
> 
> There's currently a #SixFanartsChallenge going on (Twitter, Instagram, etc.). You have probably seen that too.
> 
> Here's, for example, the artwork by Dan Mora:


Pretty good, though Goku's hair is a bit off (yes, it is important to the lore).

----------


## Sergard

Jason's current design has gone a long way.
At the beginning, there were a lot of mixed reactions and few fanarts. Nowadays a lot of people say that the design has grown on them and fanarts feel pretty balanced between classic and new design.
When it comes to fanart, there's generally some really good stuff out there. Here are two fanarts of the current design that I really like:

Bella Rachlin



Don Aguillo



And of course, the classic outfit:

Marc Lee

----------


## Zaresh

> Jason's current design has gone a long way.
> At the beginning, there were a lot of mixed reactions and few fanarts. Nowadays a lot of people say that the design has grown on them and fanarts feel pretty balanced between classic and new design.
> When it comes to fanart, there's generally some really good stuff out there. Here are two fanarts of the current design that I really like:
> 
> Bella Rachlin
> 
> 
> 
> Don Aguillo
> ...


Wow. What a fantastic set of pieces.

----------


## K7P5V

> Jason's current design has gone a long way.
> At the beginning, there were a lot of mixed reactions and few fanarts. Nowadays a lot of people say that the design has grown on them and fanarts feel pretty balanced between classic and new design.
> When it comes to fanart, there's generally some really good stuff out there. Here are two fanarts of the current design that I really like:
> 
> Bella Rachlin
> 
> https://scontent-vie1-1.cdninstagram...77&oe=5EB6B112
> 
> Don Aguillo
> ...


To the utmost, I agree. I like all three, especially the *classic*.  :Cool:

----------


## Zaresh

Otto Schmidt, one of my fave artist right now (the guy has range, his art is skilful, expressive, dynamic, clear, and damn if his colours aren't good too. You have to love what he creates, really) has posted his second take on the 6 fanarts challenge. I hope you guys enjoy this one as much as I do.

EVChw4bWsAADlH3.jpg

----------


## Jackalope89

Talia there reminds me more of Lady Shiva, to be honest. The rest look really good though.

----------


## Sergard

JJMK did it again. Always providing us with the best artworks.

----------


## Sergard

Travis G Moore is also participating in the #SixFanartsChallenge.
Here's his version of Jason, or how I call it: Jensen Ackles as Jason Todd.

----------


## Jackalope89

Been awhile since I contributed, but this is a great scene and still stands out to me;

----------


## Sergard

> Been awhile since I contributed, but this is a great scene and still stands out to me;


Suzie Su is a true gem. Her and Jason turning from enemies into friends is one of the best things in DC comics.
I generally like the redemption, recovery and rehabilitation themes in RHatO.

----------


## Sergard

I'm not crying - You are crying!

doc-squash

----------


## Sergard

(continuation)

----------


## kaimaciel

Oh, I love this comic. I love it so much.

----------


## Sergard

Here's another little comic strip that I really like simply because it's cute.

----------


## Sergard

Travis Moore has recently posted the whole artwork for the #sixfanartschallenge:




Some people get really creative with this callenge, like here (Twitter: @myjjyyd):



Personally, I'm looking forward to this artwork by kenny (Twitter: @spaceboykenny):
(It's nice to see an artwork of Mother Panic's Jason Todd.)

----------


## Zaresh

That Wanda ^____________^ is totally my Wanda. I wonder how his Rogue is.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Travis Moore has recently posted the whole artwork for the #sixfanartschallenge:


Ah, f*. 

He's doing it again. 

His Peter Parker makes me feel things.

----------


## Zaresh

> Ah, f*. 
> 
> He's doing it again. 
> 
> His Peter Parker makes me feel things.


He's a cutie pie.

----------


## Sergard

> Here's the other artwork by Nick Robles (Jason Todd beefcake sketch, as he calls it):
> 
> 
> 
> Well, that's the closest Jason will probably ever be to the Sandman universe. (Nick Robles is the artist of THE DREAMING: WAKING HOURS.)
> 
> Personally, I like the white streak but it shouldn't be created by the Lazarus Pit. So many people have bathed in the Pit and not one of them came out with a white streak. It would make no sense for Jason to be the only one.


Colored version by Nick Robles (not sure if this is the finished version)

----------


## Ssstammerer

Red Hood by Kidrobot.  :Smile: 

#JasonToddPH #RedHoodPH #Kidrobot

----------


## Sergard

> Red Hood by Kidrobot. 
> 
> #JasonToddPH #RedHoodPH #Kidrobot


Seeing that reminds me that I've found this on Twitter recently but I have no idea what this is supposed to be (or if it's something official or fan-made):

----------


## Shauds02

Hi everyone, I'm new here and not sure how introducing yourself to a new thread is supposed to work, but, uh Hi  :Smile: .
In your guy's opinions, how has the rhato run been going so far? I've been meaning to get back into it, but crossovers and such are worrying me. Since there seem to be people actually reading it here, I'd like an opinion from some place that isn't just "oh noes, hate Lobdell" :|.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Hi everyone, I'm new here and not sure how introducing yourself to a new thread is supposed to work, but, uh Hi .
> In your guy's opinions, how has the rhato run been going so far? I've been meaning to get back into it, but crossovers and such are worrying me. Since there seem to be people actually reading it here, I'd like an opinion from some place that isn't just "oh noes, hate Lobdell" :|.


Its actually been overall pretty good. Some parts between #25 and about 39 had ups and downs, but its coming back up. And really, it hasn't been affected much by other series. Though I would recommend the Robins Book that came out recently, Judd Winick (guy who did Under the Red Hood) did a Jason story in there which was awesome. Plus, I don't think many in this thread are on the "hate Lobdell" wagon. 

And going by the name you chose; you're the one that writes so many JasonxSteph fanfics, right?

----------


## Shauds02

Don't know if I'm THE one that writes a lot of JaySteph fics, but I do write a lot  :Big Grin: .
I read up until Jason had that fight with Bunker, not because I wasn't interested in rhato anymore, but the edginess in other Batbooks, made me worry about the same coming to rhato. 
I did read the Robins book and Jason's story was just precious ❤

----------


## Sergard

> Hi everyone, I'm new here and not sure how introducing yourself to a new thread is supposed to work, but, uh Hi .
> In your guy's opinions, how has the rhato run been going so far? I've been meaning to get back into it, but crossovers and such are worrying me. Since there seem to be people actually reading it here, I'd like an opinion from some place that isn't just "oh noes, hate Lobdell" :|.


Welcome to the forum  :Big Grin: 
Personally, I love the RHatO Rebirth run. The current arc got off to a good start.
Crossovers/tie-ins are worrying me too in general, especially since "Joker War" is happening right now in Batman - which is already going to affect Batgirl and Nightwing. But so far there hasn't been any announcement for RHatO. Hopefully we are dodging the bullet this time.

----------


## Shauds02

Yeah, Joker war has me rolling my eyes at every mention, really don't want to deal with another rehashing of Batman Vs Joker again, and I don't want Jason getting caught up on it.
I have seen a couple panels of later rhato issues floating around, and they look like a lot of fun, which is why I asked about it.

----------


## Zaresh

> Hi everyone, I'm new here and not sure how introducing yourself to a new thread is supposed to work, but, uh Hi .
> In your guy's opinions, how has the rhato run been going so far? I've been meaning to get back into it, but crossovers and such are worrying me. Since there seem to be people actually reading it here, I'd like an opinion from some place that isn't just "oh noes, hate Lobdell" :|.


My impressions.

Up to issue 25+annual was very good (specially the issues that make for the last arc of that part), even if a bit slow in the middle.
26 to 36 was pretty ok, but the ending was a bit rushed in both arcs.
The following arc, that introduced the kids, issues 37-42 + annual 2, was a bit too much fast paced, but fun nevertheless, and brought back Artemis and Bizarro.
The current arc is going pretty strong and once again the pace seems to be relaxed, like in the first 25 issues, but not too much that it would be too slow. It's nice, and goes again in dealing with feelings, regrets, emotional conflicts, bonding, etc. A nice mix of actual, usual cape story, a bit of mystery and character development and drama, I think.

Welcome to this thread  :Smile: .

----------


## Aahz

> Crossovers/tie-ins are worrying me too in general, especially since "Joker War" is happening right now in Batman - which is already going to affect Batgirl and Nightwing. But so far there hasn't been any announcement for RHatO. Hopefully we are dodging the bullet this time.


Sofar the Rebirth run has been been free of cross overs and tie ins (if I don't forget something), I doubt that "Joker War" change that since RHatO is also in the middle of a quite big story arc, that picks up stuff from the fist RHatO series, I don't see how they could interrupt this for Joker War.

----------


## Shauds02

It's not so much big event cross overs that worry me, so much as Batman is sad in his book, so he's going to come over to rhato and beat Jason up, you know? 
They've interrupted stories for less, unfortunately. but I think I'll start picking rhato up again soon  :Smile: .

----------


## Sergard

> Sofar the Rebirth run has been been free of cross overs and tie ins (if I don't forget something), I doubt that "Joker War" change that since RHatO is also in the middle of a quite big story arc, that picks up stuff from the fist RHatO series, I don't see how they could interrupt this for Joker War.


I wouldn't call it a crossover or tie-in, but I do feel like RHatO #25 and Jason being banned from Gotham was, for example, influenced by Tom King's Batman. At least in my eyes, it seems like DC wanted to isolate Bruce from the rest of the batfamily. Also, Gotham needed to be "bat-free" in City of Bane.

Generation Outlaw was also strongly influenced by the Year of the Villain event.

So even if there aren't any tie-ins per se, RHatO isn't 100% independent from other titles either.
And this is bothersome to some degree (I like Generation Outlaw, I don't like the drama that King has created).

----------


## Shauds02

This is exactly it.
I don't mind a little edge in my comics, I'm a Jason fan, of course I don't, but I'd like any edge in rhato to be rhato's edge, and not from whatever 'intellectual' is writing some bigger book or even at the moment.

----------


## Sergard

"The Importance of Qurac" (article from the fan blog "Exploring The Time Lab")




> I saw a theory online (that I can't find it anymore otherwise I'd link it) that guessed that the the solicit for #46 hinting at an anicent evil being. The theory also matched up to the cover art with the giant red hand, suggesting it belonged to Trigon. Which isn't totally out of left field as *Essence outright told the Outlaws way back at the beginning of volume one that she was once trapped in the heart of Trigon*. It would make sense if he was responsible for the Well of Sins that created the Untitled. So, how does that connect to Jason and the Amazons?


Did that really happen?

When it comes to demons appearing in RHatO, I'd prefer Neron over Trigon. With Neron there's at least a little bit of backstory with Jason: 
"Red Hood: How Jason Todd (Almost) Came Back from the Dead" (CBR article)




> Underworld Unleashed was a major DC event story that was released in 1995. [...]
> 
> Neron also extends offers to many heroes, including Batman. Neron appears before Batman inside the Batcave and promises to restore Jason Todd to life if Bruce Wayne is willing to part with his soul. He even conjures the image of Jason up to tempt Batman. But Bruce Wayne refuses, and Neron disappears as quickly as he appeared. Jason vanishes as well, leaving a heartbroken Batman alone in his cave - with the sounds of what happened to Jason ringing in the cave as one final taunt from the demon.

----------


## Shauds02

Oh, I would love if they did something with Neron! Trigon's also an interesting villains and all, but Neron also has a connection with Eddie Bloomberg, and even if that weren't brought up even once, I'd like that tiny string connecting Eddie and Jason again.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Is a random line during issue 7



That said, trying to find a deeper meaning on the series current development using as a basis the previous runs is pointless. Things are constantly getting retconned and changed so they better fit whatever story has currently in mind. The Chamber of all and the All-Caste, for example, was introduced as being located in some remote mountain in China, and before the recent solicits there was no hint of having any relation to Qurac whatsoever. Qurac prominence itself is more likely just due to its role as an Iran stand-in so no one gets offended. DC clearly learned its lesson with DOTF and the whole thing with Embassador Joker.

----------


## Shauds02

It might not have much point, but theorising about future issues is part of the fun with comics, whether your predictions happen or not, and little mentions like that are also good for fanwork inspiration.

----------


## Sergard

> Oh, I would love if they did something with Neron! Trigon's also an interesting villains and all, but Neron also has a connection with Eddie Bloomberg, and even if that weren't brought up even once, I'd like that tiny string connecting Eddie and Jason again.


Eddie Bloomberg is the only red devil that I want to see in RHatO  :Wink: 




> Is a random line during issue 7
> 
> [...]
> 
> That said, trying to find a deeper meaning on the series current development using as a basis the previous runs is pointless. Things are constantly getting retconned and changed so they better fit whatever story has currently in mind. The Chamber of all and the All-Caste, for example, was introduced as being located in some remote mountain in China, and before the recent solicits there was no hint of having any relation to Qurac whatsoever. Qurac prominence itself is more likely just due to its role as an Iran stand-in so no one gets offended. DC clearly learned its lesson with DOTF and the whole thing with Embassador Joker.


Thanks. I only remembered this page from RHatO #27 (New52 run). But that story was by Tynion.




I sometimes do wonder if there's maybe a connection between the All-Caste and the Goddess Nyphthys.
Her dress has an eye symbol (well, two) similar to the one on Jason's All-Caste robe.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Another DCU poll, this time, about who's your favorite non-Dick Grayson Robin. 

https://www.dcuniverse.com/news/poll...avorite-robin/

EDIT: Nevermind, is from 2019.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Another DCU poll, this time, about who's your favorite non-Dick Grayson Robin. 
> 
> https://www.dcuniverse.com/news/poll...avorite-robin/


Did Dick win this one every time too?

----------


## Sergard

Has anyone else read Batman: The Adventures Continue (2020-) #2 yet?

----------


## Zaresh

> Has anyone else read Batman: The Adventures Continue (2020-) #2 yet?


Not yet. I've been a bit busy. But it's my intention to read it.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Has anyone else read Batman: The Adventures Continue (2020-) #2 yet?


Yep. Took an interesting turn with Lex. And did a bit more setup with Jason, hinting at possibly some form of Under the Red Hood.

----------


## redmax99

> Has anyone else read Batman: The Adventures Continue (2020-) #2 yet?


 i will say clark will always be a better person than me and jason is ever the hot head.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I truly hope Jason doesn't go the way of Bane and gets stuck endlessly rehashing UtRH in increasingly lame ways.

----------


## Sergard

> [...]
> 
> I truly hope Jason doesn't go the way of Bane and gets stuck endlessly rehashing UtRH in increasingly lame ways.


So the BTAS action figure of Jason has a white streak ... but the comic version has a red streak?
Jason reminds me of an anime character but I neither know the name of the character nor the anime - little girl with black hair and a red streak.

----------


## Jackalope89

> So the BTAS action figure of Jason has a white streak ... but the comic version has a red streak?
> Jason reminds me of an anime character but I neither know the name of the character nor the anime - little girl with black hair and a red streak.


Closest I can think of is Ruby Rose from RWBY. But hers is more that her hair goes from black to red at the tips.

----------


## Zaresh

> So the BTAS action figure of Jason has a white streak ... but the comic version has a red streak?
> Jason reminds me of an anime character but I neither know the name of the character nor the anime - little girl with black hair and a red streak.


Kill la Kill MC, Ryuko, perhaps?

----------


## Sergard

> Kill la Kill MC, Ryuko, perhaps?


Yeah, that's the character I meant.
Thanks  :Smile: 



--------------

This was fast.

Jason by acclast:

----------


## Zaresh

You're welcome!

No brows. It's killing me, honestly.

----------


## Jackalope89

Forgot about Kill la Kill. Weird, but good, show.

And yeah, the no eyebrows thing is kind of annoying.

Edit: Also, anyone else imagine Jensen Ackles voice for Jason in most comics and what not? Or just me?

----------


## AJpyro

Same here. Jenson is Forever Jason.

----------


## Zaresh

> Forgot about Kill la Kill. Weird, but good, show.
> 
> And yeah, the no eyebrows thing is kind of annoying.
> 
> Edit: Also, anyone else imagine Jensen Ackles voice for Jason in most comics and what not? Or just me?


I've my own voice for Jason, which is the usual male adult MC voice I put for every character like him in my head. Which is loosely based in some voice actor from here. Jensen was cool, though.

----------


## Aahz



----------


## kaimaciel

Where are his eyebrows? Why is he drawn without them? To make him look... evil? Unhinged?

----------


## Sergard

> Where are his eyebrows? Why is he drawn without them? To make him look... evil? Unhinged?


I didn't even notice the missing eyebrows.
But what I did notice are the pointy strands of hair on the left and right (although they aren't there in the last panel when Jason is shown from behind).
I associate such a hair style with devil horns. And that's not a nice association for Jason. He's not Klarion the Witch Boy.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I didn't even notice the missing eyebrows.
> But what I did notice are the pointy strands of hair on the left and right (although they aren't there in the last panel when Jason is shown from behind).
> I associate such a hair style with devil horns. And that's not a nice association for Jason. He's not Klarion the Witch Boy.


Well, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. Considering Timm and Dini wanted to use Jason originally way back when, but were forced to use "Tim" (given Jason's background and whatnot). So, I'll see what they have planned for him.

----------


## Sergard

> Well, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. Considering Timm and Dini wanted to use Jason originally way back when, but were forced to use "Tim" (given Jason's background and whatnot). So, I'll see what they have planned for him.


So far, characters feel a little one-dimensional in Batman: The Adventures Continue. I don't know if this was normal for BTAS too.
I'd also like to give them the benefit of the doubt - but if they have given Tim a lot of Jason's stuff, they obviously can't use that stuff for Jason himself. So what are they going to give Jason?

----------


## Jackalope89

> So far, characters feel a little one-dimensional in Batman: The Adventures Continue. I don't know if this was normal for BTAS too.
> I'd also like to give them the benefit of the doubt - but if they have given Tim a lot of Jason's stuff, they obviously can't use that stuff for Jason himself. So what are they going to give Jason?


No idea, hence the "wait and see" attitude I have right now.

----------


## AmiMizuno

Overall should Jason appear in a live action movie? Should he be part of the Batfam or should they keep him seprated?  BOth in movie and comics. Many say he was better has his own thing

----------


## Zaresh

He's tied to the batman franchise intrinsically, both by being a Robin and a reason for Bruce unbearable angst (I hate that part so much). He can still be troubled and hurt and suffering from his death even without Batman, but then you need a big excuse for his vengeance arc to work: you need someone else (in stead of Bruce) to be the one Jason wants to be chosen by, and the one he wants to reconnect to, and the one he wants to be looked by, and the one he wants to show how his methods can work too. You can also write other kind fo story with him, but then you have to alter the course of the plot.
He can appear in movies, can even star a movie himself; but you need to introduce certain background in the story in order to work. Just like the animated movie did.

He is an associate to the baftam and he should stay that way. He has strong ties to other characters in there. Even if he doesn't need to often show up in their books or them in his, it's something you can use and should now and them. Because it's a big part of why Jason is how he is nowadays.

In my opinion, that is.

----------


## Aahz

Nice clip from Teen Titans Go.

https://dailyjasontodd.tumblr.com/day/2020/04/14/

----------


## Jackalope89

> Overall should Jason appear in a live action movie? Should he be part of the Batfam or should they keep him seprated?  BOth in movie and comics. Many say he was better has his own thing


As Robin, despite DC trying to say otherwise, Jason was a good Robin. 

As for afterwards... It really depends. Main-verse, yeah it seems separating from the Bats is in his best interest. Elseworlds, it depends on the setting.

----------


## Rise

> Nice clip from Teen Titans Go.
> 
> https://dailyjasontodd.tumblr.com/day/2020/04/14/


_"Nobody cares about Tim Drake"_

Ouch, how the mighty have fallen.

----------


## Sergard

> Nice clip from Teen Titans Go.
> 
> https://dailyjasontodd.tumblr.com/day/2020/04/14/


How old is this?
I'm a little surprised that Damian is not in it. On the other hand, it's nice that they acknowledge Carrie - and there were only Beast Boy, Cyborg and Raven that they could use.




> Overall should Jason appear in a live action movie? Should he be part of the Batfam or should they keep him seprated?  BOth in movie and comics. Many say he was better has his own thing


I'd dig a Red Hood movie or Red Hood (and the Outlaws) liveaction series. I think Batman: Under the Red Hood - and therefore Jason interacting with Bruce - is unavoidable since it's such a popular story. I'm not sure about the rest of the batfamily. In a movie: no, because there isn't enough time.

Regarding comics, I'm definitely in favor of Jason leaving this so called "family". I have zero interest in seeing Jason interact with them ever again.

Jason is at his best when he's with the Outlaws - and Jason is at his worst when he is a side-character in a bat-title where he is used as the writers' trashcan. Writers want someone to say something bad or act aggressive so that their favored character can react heroically and superior to that person? Oh, let's use Jason and let's not care if it's in-character for him to say or do this stuff because Bruce, Dick, Damian, etc. looking awesome is more important.

As far as I'm concerned, I wouldn't even mind if DC retcons the whole batfamily out of Jason's life with the next reboot. Jason can steal the tyres of someone else and wind up in Ma Gunn's school (in New York or somewhere else outside of Gotham). Let the story progress from there. Reveal that Ma Gunn is Jason's grandmother. Jason can help Ma Gunn redeem herself and change for the better. Free Willis from prison and finally give Jason a father and family that treat him like family. Let Jason meet some teachers (and the other Outlaws) on the way and introduce the All-Caste and Untitled, etc. 

The batfamily can look for a new punching bag who they can hate, blame, exploit, beat up, insult, humiliate, etc.
I have no sympathy for a bunch of "Greatest Heroes of all Time" who are quick to blame and demean others but then fall silent when it comes to their own wrongdoings. This is pathetic. That's not the kind of "heroes" I want to read about. Nor am I interested in reading about people who prefer punishment over rehabilitation.

I hate this black and white thinking in superhero comics. I hate this labeling. If you are a "hero", you are "good". If you are a "villain", you are "bad". When a villain punches a hero, it's "bad". When a hero punches a villain, it's "good". When a villain does something bad, they get punished. When a hero does something bad, no one cares. When a hero does something good, they get celebrated and praised. When a villain does something good, it gets ignored. This is dumb.

----------


## Aahz

> How old is this?
> I'm a little surprised that Damian is not in it. On the other hand, it's nice that they acknowledge Carrie - and there were only Beast Boy, Cyborg and Raven that they could use.


It is from the episode Egg Hunt from lat week.

Here is a little longer clip.

----------


## Aahz

From the same episode:

----------


## Zaresh

> From the same episode:


XDDDDDDDDDDD

I think we can send a box of sweets and a bouquet of flowers to their team of writers.

----------


## Sergard

Well, this is my favorite #SixFanartsChallenge fanart xD

kenny

----------


## Sergard

Look what Dexter Soy is wearing in Animal Crossing New Horizons.





Karl Mostert (the artist of DCeased: Unkillables) is currently drawing on this piece (not finished):

----------


## AmiMizuno

I’m curious what would happen if Dc seprated Jason Todd again. I mean they do have Red hood and the outlaws. Or should Dc. Use him less?

----------


## Zaresh

> I’m curious what would happen if Dc seprated Jason Todd again. I mean they do have Red hood and the outlaws. Or should Dc. Use him less?


There is a ton of stories one could tell with Jason and the Outlaws, not to mention there's a lot of characters that they could add to the cast. Why would they "use" him less? As long as he's not stupid foil for the next event, there's interest in the reading base about him.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I’m curious what would happen if Dc seprated Jason Todd again. I mean they do have Red hood and the outlaws. Or should Dc. Use him less?


As Zaresh pointed out; there's quite a bit DC can do with Jason independent of the Bats. Especially in his own team book. Its kind of similar to where Dick Grayson was with the Titans back in the 70s and 80s. Except this time around, there is FAR less to hold Jason back as an independent character than Dick. 

Going forward, I wouldn't mind if we saw the additions of say, Red Devil (one of the few characters that actually has a friendly history with Jason in his Robin days, and being of a similar age), Rose Wilson (whom has been in and out of the Titans a LOT and has been more independent of their "no kill" rule than most), and a few others.

----------


## AmiMizuno

Right now should DC simply somewhat make the relationships with the Bats okay? I'm not saying sunshine and rainbows. Rather things can be on decent terms. I don't want them showing up in his books. Then again Dick does appear. WOuld it be okay if Dick or Babs appeared? e

----------


## Jackalope89

> Right now should DC simply somewhat make the relationships with the Bats okay? I'm not saying sunshine and rainbows. Rather things can be on decent terms. I don't want them showing up in his books. Then again Dick does appear. WOuld it be okay if Dick or Babs appeared? e


Nah. Tired of seeing him portrayed as horrible or being crapped on in other Bat Books. He was even forced to sneak into Alfred's funeral because he was banned from it otherwise. 

So, keep those characters away, and authors away who only want to do a bad portrayal of Jason.

----------


## E.Marie

> Right now should DC simply somewhat make the relationships with the Bats okay? I'm not saying sunshine and rainbows. Rather things can be on decent terms. I don't want them showing up in his books. Then again Dick does appear. WOuld it be okay if Dick or Babs appeared? e


Not for me.

I feel like too much has happened to have Jason on okay terms with everyone. The stuff with Bruce and Damian for example needs to be properly addressed because they both misjudged and attacked him more than once. Ignoring that stuff feels like their saying what they did, and by extension Jason, doesn't matter.

Jackalope89: That too. If you don't know what happened between Jason and the family Alfred Pennyworth R.I.P. and other appearences like it would make you think Jason is solely to blame for everything. For me the whole thing makes it seem like the family doesn't care enough about him to try to mend things or are just being petty like trying to ban him from making an appearance.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Right now should DC simply somewhat make the relationships with the Bats okay? I'm not saying sunshine and rainbows. Rather things can be on decent terms. I don't want them showing up in his books. Then again Dick does appear. WOuld it be okay if Dick or Babs appeared? e


I'd like for Jason to be on good terms with the batfamily. There's no real reason for him to not be and it wouldn't be first, nor the last time bad stories get retconned away. That said, batfamily characters shouldn't appear in RHATO just because.

----------


## redmax99

> Not for me.
> 
> I feel like too much has happened to have Jason on okay terms with everyone. The stuff with Bruce and Damian for example needs to be properly addressed because they both misjudged and attacked him more than once. Ignoring that stuff feels like their saying what they did, and by extension Jason, doesn't matter.
> 
> Jackalope89: That too. If you don't know what happened between Jason and the family Alfred Pennyworth R.I.P. and other appearences like it would make you think Jason is solely to blame for everything. For me the whole thing makes it seem like the family doesn't care enough about him to try to mend things or are just being petty like trying to ban him from making an appearance.


why should Damian Apologize? Bruce yeah but jason never apologize for shooting him or trying to kill tim. They forgave and moved on he need to forgive and move on.

----------


## Light of Justice

> why should Damian Apologize? Bruce yeah but jason never apologize for shooting him or trying to kill tim. They forgave and moved on he need to forgive and move on.


Jason shot Damian and tried to kill Tim when he was in (crazy) villain phrase. Jason hate them both and both Damian or Tim hate him back. So it's mutual antagonism. I agree that it's weird for him to get along easily on Batfam interaction without anyone berate him for what happen in the past, but that's reboot for you. That's why I always feel it's weird that Jason and Tim became best bud on Rebirth. Jason hates Bruce not only because Bruce didn't avenge him and kill Joker, but also replaced him with Tim (hence the nickname Replacement). And Tim was occasionally the target of Jason's murder intent when he was just on his early teen. For them become good brothers with each other like Dick and Damian is really strange, especially without any background explanation and relationship development plot like Dick and Damian.
But whatever, I don't really mind that. I enjoy their interaction. I mean, Tim even forgave Steph and still on relationship with her after the whole gang wars fiasco, so maybe Tim is just a person who forgive easily.

Back to the topic. On Teen Titans annual, it's different. Jason and Damian were allies. They formed partnership and agree with each other moral code. That's why Damian attacked Jason left more bitter taste for me. Just like Damian felt betrayal over Jason, Jason must feel like he was betrayed by Damian, especially when he threatened to lock Jason forever and blackmailed him with the mysterious box (which we STILL don't know what's that means to Jason seriously DC or Glass some explanation please?). Personally I anticipated their team-up, and Damian broke it because of half-baked accusation. Damian is my favorite, but he needs to learn to apologize and admit his fault.

Scratch that, everyone with Wayne blood in them need to learn to apologize and admit their own fault.

----------


## Sergard

> why should Damian Apologize? Bruce yeah but jason never apologize for shooting him or trying to kill tim. They forgave and moved on he need to forgive and move on.


Damian should apologize for putting a crowbar in Jason's bed.
Damian should apologize for exploiting Jason's trauma.
Damian should apologize for blaming Jason for his own death.
Damian should apologize for making fun of Jason's death.
Damian should apologize for attacking Jason in Teen Titans.
Damian should apologize for attacking Jason in Event Leviathan.

Why should Jason apologize for something that happened in a different continuity?
Why should Jason apologize when he was the one being character assassinated by writers who wanted to PUSH OTHER CHARACTERS LIKE DICK AND DAMIAN (and to some degree Tim)? Dick and Damian BENEFITED from Jason being OOC. So first, Dick and Damian PARASITE on Jason's character and now Jason is also supposed to apologize for something that he would have never done when writers would have given a shit about his character?
And why the heck does it always have to be Jason who needs to apologize? Jason is the one who's on a redemption path. Jason is the one who shows remorse for his past actions. Jason is the one who wants to make it up to the family. And he did so for nearly a decade now. But every f*cking time when it comes to the batfamily hurting Jason and the Jason Todd fan-base arguing that the family should apologize, it's always the same: Dick, Damian, Bruce, etc. don't need to apologize. 


Damian has never shown any forgiveness towards Jason. Nor has Damian shown any remorse for his own actions. Damian is worse than Bruce in that regard. Bruce at least admits when he has done something wrong. But writers (and Damian fans) constantly play the "Damian is a child and therefore can't be hold accountable for his own actions"-card. Personally, I just wish that Damian finally stops antagonizing Jason. If he hates Jason so much than Damian can just go way! The DC universe is big enough. Damian needs to stop attacking Jason! This is pathetic and I'm sick of Damian being such a hateful and horrible person.

Jason is the one who constantly forgives Damian - although Damian never does anything to earn this forgiveness.
Jason is also the one who has been shown to worry about Damian - in the meanwhile Damian enjoys it when Jason gets hurt and has no problems to hurt Jason himself.

So how about Damian finally forgives and moves on for a change?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Is dumb to expect (or want) Damian to apologize Jason when he's up there with him as the character most inconsistently written among the Batfamily. Furthermore, a lot of the things you list come from self-contained stories that weren't that good, to begin with, had characterization problems from the get-go and very obviously were written with zero forethought about the possible ramifications and just because the writer thought it would be cool.

----------


## Zaresh

I want to mention that, for me, it was implied in the N52/DCYou runs of the Outlaws that he apologized to Tim, and felt certain guilt and regret about everyone else.

About the batfam showing up in RHATO... Depends on who and for what for me.

----------


## redmax99

[QUOTE=Sergard;4939006]Damian should apologize for putting a crowbar in Jason's bed.
Damian should apologize for exploiting Jason's trauma.
Damian should apologize for blaming Jason for his own death.
Damian should apologize for making fun of Jason's death.
Damian should apologize for attacking Jason in Teen Titans.
Damian should apologize for attacking Jason in Event Leviathan.

Why should Jason apologize for something that happened in a different continuity?
Why should Jason apologize when he was the one being character assassinated by writers who wanted to PUSH OTHER CHARACTERS LIKE DICK AND DAMIAN (and to some degree Tim)? Dick and Damian BENEFITED from Jason being OOC. So first, Dick and Damian PARASITE on Jason's character and now Jason is also supposed to apologize for something that he would have never done when writers would have given a shit about his character?
And why the heck does it always have to be Jason who needs to apologize? Jason is the one who's on a redemption path. Jason is the one who shows remorse for his past actions. Jason is the one who wants to make it up to the family. And he did so for nearly a decade now. But every f*cking time when it comes to the batfamily hurting Jason and the Jason Todd fan-base arguing that the family should apologize, it's always the same: Dick, Damian, Bruce, etc. don't need to apologize. 

editorial said everything that happen in the bat mythos goes into nu52 and rebirth so he shot that kid. 

while i agree writers agenda to push dick and Damian, he still shot that kid. I love jason but i dont excuse his failings or skip over them. Damian put a crow bar in his bed his ptsd kick in bad yeah, but he still not fighting for life his from a gunshot wound. Damian accuse jason of being Leviathan I take that as a compliment cause heaven knows IMO jason in his own book could barely find a paper bag. As for The Redemption arc goes i Never Seen him Apologize to Damian for the shooting  he can show remorse all he wants i never saw it and i read all of new 52 bat boys books. So if in the Wayne family all you need is a head nod to know everything is ok that what damian should give him.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

[QUOTE=redmax99;4939095]


> Damian should apologize for putting a crowbar in Jason's bed.
> Damian should apologize for exploiting Jason's trauma.
> Damian should apologize for blaming Jason for his own death.
> Damian should apologize for making fun of Jason's death.
> Damian should apologize for attacking Jason in Teen Titans.
> Damian should apologize for attacking Jason in Event Leviathan.
> 
> Why should Jason apologize for something that happened in a different continuity?
> Why should Jason apologize when he was the one being character assassinated by writers who wanted to PUSH OTHER CHARACTERS LIKE DICK AND DAMIAN (and to some degree Tim)? Dick and Damian BENEFITED from Jason being OOC. So first, Dick and Damian PARASITE on Jason's character and now Jason is also supposed to apologize for something that he would have never done when writers would have given a shit about his character?
> ...



Editorial says many things, but if you have read the N52 comics, is evident that the events of BFtC never happened. Jason did try to kill Dick, Bruce and Tim but he never made such attempts on Damian in the post Flashpoint version. As matter, of fact, Jason's most heinous crimes were erased by the reboot.

----------


## Zaresh

Jason has shot a lot of people. Actually, the one who has suffered more from Jason is, by far, Tim, and very few things have been retconned. Yet Tim, because he's very forgiving and understanding, forgives him (I want to believe that's also because Tim knows he could do nasty stuff himself too, when he's hurt and cornered. But that's my headcanon). And just to clear things up: the shot that "broke" Damian's back wasn't Jason's. I don't know why people usually think it was him, but it wasn't. Pre-Flashpoint Morrison's Jason did a lot of bad, but that thing wasn't on him at least. But as I said, he did shot Damian at some point. Yet Damian wasn't killed, so I would think that Jason wasn't aiming to kill him, "just" hurt him. The Batfam seems to do that a lot, aiming to hurt.

I just hope Damian is as hard on himself as he seem to be on others, because I swear he has done some awful stuff to people after he became Robin as well (and after FP, if I'm not mistaken). Would be hypocritical in his part if he didn't. Or, well, he does that, at some point, because he's a teenager and technically he's growing into an actual good human being, or mean to.

----------


## redmax99

> Jason shot Damian and tried to kill Tim when he was in (crazy) villain phrase. Jason hate them both and both Damian or Tim hate him back. So it's mutual antagonism. I agree that it's weird for him to get along easily on Batfam interaction without anyone berate him for what happen in the past, but that's reboot for you. That's why I always feel it's weird that Jason and Tim became best bud on Rebirth. Jason hates Bruce not only because Bruce didn't avenge him and kill Joker, but also replaced him with Tim (hence the nickname Replacement). And Tim was occasionally the target of Jason's murder intent when he was just on his early teen. For them become good brothers with each other like Dick and Damian is really strange, especially without any background explanation and relationship development plot like Dick and Damian.
> But whatever, I don't really mind that. I enjoy their interaction. I mean, Tim even forgave Steph and still on relationship with her after the whole gang wars fiasco, so maybe Tim is just a person who forgive easily.
> 
> Back to the topic. On Teen Titans annual, it's different. Jason and Damian were allies. They formed partnership and agree with each other moral code. That's why Damian attacked Jason left more bitter taste for me. Just like Damian felt betrayal over Jason, Jason must feel like he was betrayed by Damian, especially when he threatened to lock Jason forever and blackmailed him with the mysterious box (which we STILL don't know what's that means to Jason seriously DC or Glass some explanation please?). Personally I anticipated their team-up, and Damian broke it because of half-baked accusation. Damian is my favorite, but he needs to learn to apologize and admit his fault.
> 
> Scratch that, everyone with Wayne blood in them need to learn to apologize and admit their own fault.


i get what your saying i just feel if damian apologize to jason than he should apologize to people he hurt more than jason like tim, than jason should start apologizing to dick and tim not to mention damian and its never going to happen so don't talk for week than move on

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Jason has shot a lot of people. Actually, the one who has suffered more from Jason is, by far, Tim, *and very few things have been retconned*. Yet Tim, because he's very forgiving and understanding, forgives him (I want to believe that's also because Tim knows he could do nasty stuff himself too, when he's hurt and cornered. But that's my headcanon).


Such as? As I explained before, Battle For the Cowl never happened post reboot, and neither did the TT so the beatdown Jason gave to Tim shortly after UtRH never happened either.  The only thing we have to go on the post FP timeline are vague references here and there about Jason trying to kill Tim but we've never seen them. 




> And just to clear things up: the shot that "broke" Damian's back wasn't Jason's. I don't know why people usually think it was him, but it wasn't. Pre-Flashpoint Morrison's Jason did a lot of bad, but that thing wasn't on him at least. But as I said, he did shot Damian at some point. Yet Damian wasn't killed, so I would think that Jason wasn't aiming to kill him, "just" hurt him.


Pretty sure the shot people think of when speaking of Jason shooting Damian is the one from Battle for the Cowl.

----------


## Sergard

> editorial said everything that happen in the bat mythos goes into nu52 and rebirth so he shot that kid.


Source?
Comic proof?
Any mention in RHatO?




> while i agree writers agenda to push dick and Damian, he still shot that kid. I love jason but i dont excuse his failings or skip over them. Damian put a crow bar in his bed his ptsd kick in bad yeah, but he still not fighting for life his from a gunshot wound.


You can't compare physical and psychological damage.
Even if Jason shot Damian in this continuity, there is no scar on Damian's body and Damian never mentions the shot. There are no aftermaths.
The same can't be said for Jason's trauma.
So don't tell me that Damian is excused for crossing a line that some villains wouldn't cross.
At his worst character assassination Jason was named and treated like a villain. In the meanwhile, we are all supposed to believe that Damian is hero.




> Damian accuse jason of being Leviathan I take that as a compliment cause heaven knows IMO jason in his own book could barely find a paper bag.


Then why should Jason apologize for shooting Damian in Battle for the Cowl. It was a "compliment". So everything is fine. *facepalm*




> As for The Redemption arc goes i Never Seen him Apologize to Damian for the shooting  he can show remorse all he wants i never saw it and i read all of new 52 bat boys books. So if in the Wayne family all you need is a head nod to know everything is ok that what damian should give him.


Then go on. Show me the comic panel of Damian's "head nod".

----------


## redmax99

> Source?
> Comic proof?
> Any mention in RHatO?
> 
> 
> 
> You can't compare physical and psychological damage.
> Even if Jason shot Damian in this continuity, there is no scar on Damian's body and Damian never mentions the shot. There are no aftermaths.
> The same can't be said for Jason's trauma.
> ...


never mind

----------


## Zaresh

> Such as? As I explained before, Battle For the Cowl never happened post reboot, and neither did the TT so the beatdown Jason gave to Tim shortly after UtRH never happened either.  The only thing we have to go on the post FP timeline are vague references here and there about Jason trying to kill Tim but we've never seen them. 
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty sure the shot people think of when speaking of Jason shooting Damian is the one from Battle for the Cowl.


I think the retconned attack in Hush hasn't been re-retconned yet. I think his attack in the Titans' tower hasn't been retconmned yet either (I mean, when was it retconned?), but I guess we will see that mentioned somehow in Johns' Three Jokers story. And I can see him having been attacked (oooph, it's that proper English grammar?) Tim in the not-BftC story that must have happened, by what he commented in RHATO in the past. He said that he hurt Tim plenty, iirc. So something had to have happened that seriously hurt Tim in the past, and not just once, imho.

Or maybe I'm remembering wrong what he said in RHATO. Wouldn't be the first time I remember things not quite so well. Can someone look it up?

Half the time I see the shot being brought into some discussion, it's about Damian's back.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I think the retconned attack in Hush hasn't been re-retconned yet. I think his attack in the Titans' tower hasn't been retconmned yet either (I mean, when was it retconned?), but I guess we will see that mentioned somehow in Johns' Three Jokers story. And I can see him having been attacked (oooph, it's that proper English grammar?) Tim in the not-BftC story that must have happened, by what he commented in RHATO in the past. He said that he hurt Tim plenty, iirc. So something had to have happened that seriously hurt Tim in the past, and not just once, imho.


Hush doesn't even exist post FP, so that's out.
The TT didn't even exist until Bendis got YJ and even then, it isn't clear what exactly happened there so that one is also out. 
There was no BTFC equivalent, the events of Batman RIP happened but Dick took over with no incident. That it was how Morrison originally planned the story anyways. 





> Or maybe I'm remembering wrong what he said in RHATO. Wouldn't be the first time I remember things not quite so well. Can someone look it up?




Nothing of the sort.

----------


## Zaresh

> Hush doesn't even exist post FP, so that's out.
> The TT didn't even exist until Bendis got YJ and even then, it isn't clear what exactly happened there so that one is also out. 
> There was no BTFC equivalent, the events of Batman RIP happened but Dick took over with no incident. That it was how Morrison originally planned the story anyways. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing of the sort.


Man, I'm so freaking lost about what's in cont and what's not nowadays...

Ah, I remembered that, but blurry enough that I though it was more explicit. Still, for me it reads as Jason doing some serious bad deeds to Tim in the past. If not, why feeling guilt at all? He doesn't feel regret for being a jerk for other people, or well, not when he feels he's justified to be so.

----------


## Sergard

Karl Mostert has updated his batfamily artwork (still not finished).
Dick and Duke were added.






Oh, and I found this on Twitter and wanted to share it because it's incredibly cute.

BX

----------


## Zaresh

> Oh, and I found this on Twitter and wanted to share it because it's incredibly cute.
> 
> BX


Awwwwwwwww~~ 

Mmm... Reminds me of the chibis in Hetalia, somehow.

----------


## Jackalope89

Man, new algorithms for posting images sucks. Found a good one. Had to save it to my PC though.

jasonmask.jpg

----------


## Zaresh

> Man, new algorithms for posting images sucks. Found a good one. Had to save it to my PC though.
> 
> jasonmask.jpg


He did it before it was a trend.
As usual  :Big Grin: 

(I probably deserve some special hell for making jokes about something so terrible. Still, can't help it. I mean... er...)

----------


## Sergard

It's finished.

Karl Mostert



Also, individual shot of Jason:

----------


## Sergard

17:22 - "And what could the little scar on his face be from? [...] A lot of fanart of Jason has a scar like this."
What fanart? I've never seen fanart of Jason with such a scar.

----------


## Jackalope89

> 17:22 - "And what could the little scar on his face be from? [...] A lot of fanart of Jason has a scar like this."
> What fanart? I've never seen fanart of Jason with such a scar.


Fanart and some fanfics like to include a scar, generally the Arkham Knight "J" scar, even if it has nothing to do with the Arkham games. But, its nowhere near as prevalent as the white stripe in the hair.

----------


## Zaresh

Meh.

The only fanarts I've come across with that shows a scar in his face are the AK fanarts that does show the J brand in his left cheek. Honestly, I think that giving him scars that aren't meant* to be there or don't have a meaningful story behind is adding unnecessary edginess* (or grimness?*), in my opinion.

I also dislike when people don't draw eyebrows in their characters, because it limits their expressiveness so, so much. But, well, I know for one that not few of the kids I teach dislike drawing brows; I'll have to live with their stylistic choices XD.

----------


## Sergard

> Meh.
> 
> The only fanarts I've come across with that shows a scar in his face are the AK fanarts that does show the J brand in his left cheek. Honestly,* I think that giving him scars that aren't mean to be there or don't have a meaningful story behind is adding unnecessary edgeness, in my opinion.*
> 
> I also dislike when people don't draw eyebrows in their characters, because it limits their expressiveness so, so much. But, well, I know for one that not few of the kids I teach dislike drawing brows; I'll have to live with their stylistic choices XD.


This reminds me of fanarts and fanfics where Jason has an autopsy scar.
Which makes zero sense. Why should Bruce cut dead Robin Jason open in the first place and even if he did, the scar would have still been healed by the Lazarus pit.

It's unrealistic that the batfamily members don't have any scars. On the other hand it would be a pain in the ass for artists to stay consistent with the scars.

----------


## Zaresh

> This reminds me of fanarts and fanfics where Jason has an autopsy scar.
> Which makes zero sense. Why should Bruce cut dead Robin Jason open in the first place and even if he did, the scar would have still been healed by the Lazarus pit.
> 
> It's unrealistic that the batfamily members don't have any scars. On the other hand it would be a pain in the ass for artists to stay consistent with the scars.


I'm on the same opinion about the autopsy scar: it makes little sense for it to be there after the pit, you could say it makes zero sense too, if coming back itself was a kind of rewind of his body back to a state just before he died. It can erase decay, so it should also erase any autopsy scar he could have. They like it because "it's cool and dark" but, eh, it's a hard pass for me, I don't like it.

On the other hand, yeah: they should have some scars in themselves, same as any cop, I guess. Bullets and cuts in places that aren't protected. I guess Dick will keep the one in the head that he could easily cover with a half-long haircut. Unless it was a fake scar all along placed there by the Court or something. But then, most scars wouldn't be noticeable in the art, unless they're big or raw, or it's a close up, I think.

(every time I reread my own posts, I keep finding new mistakes)

----------


## sifighter

I cant say I want every member of the Batfamily to have scars but I can honestly say Im okay with it when it makes sense for the  characters such as those who had a traumatic injury like Dick and Barbara or where characters actually died like Jason and Damian....Tim better watch his back or else he will wind up on one of those list.

I dont want them showing it off but if its not inconsistent then I can live with it.

----------


## Sergard

> Right now should DC simply somewhat make the relationships with the Bats okay? I'm not saying sunshine and rainbows. Rather things can be on decent terms. I don't want them showing up in his books. Then again Dick does appear. WOuld it be okay if Dick or Babs appeared? e


God no. Dick is the one who has exploited Jason the most.
Every time Jason interacts with Dick or Dick talks about Jason, it feels like writers are trying to retcon Jason's personality or history to Dick's advantage and Jason's disadvantage. Dick especially should stay the hell out of RHatO, he has already done more than enough damage. I also have zero interest in seeing Babs - one of Dick's main love interests - around Jason. 

I truly believe that a complete separation would be the best for Jason. Just make Jason reevaluate his place in the batfamily and let him compare his treatment by the batfamily to the Outlaws FAMILY (I wish DC would stop calling them a mere team, they are so much more.). Jason can then take his silent leave. It doesn't have to be more complicated than that. After that, Jason stops appearing in bat-titles and no one of the batfamily appears in RHatO. RHatO isn't influenced by any events in other bat-titles anymore and, ideally, Jason also doesn't meet any of the batfamily members in any other DC comic either.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I'm looking for any source but word on street is that Lobdell is out with issue 51.

----------


## Zaresh

> I'm looking for any source but word on street is that Lobdell is out with issue 51.


Well, I kind of saw that coming. If it does happen, my best wishes for whatever new project he starts afterwards.
I hope the new writer, if we get a new one, is good and respectful enough to follow the book with its mood, interaction, relationships and characters as they've been until this point.

----------


## Zaresh

So... I haven't rearranged the fic posts yet, but I'll leave a pair of fics that you guys may enjoy. Both are pretty friendly and enjoyable, even if one is a bit more violent than the other (and so more mature).

The weighing of one's heart is a 20k-ish fic by Comicfan, a canon-divergence fic pre-UtH-like, Rebirth cont, with Jason, Artemis and Egyptian mythology. I've yet to read the last chapter, but I've liked it a lot up to the sixth one. Edit: ok, so, even if it says 7/7 chapgers, it's not finished yet.

Of Broken, Blazing Wings, by FrEShAVocaNoob. It hasn't finished yet, but it's updated each week, and it's been going for long enough that there's enough to read for a rather long session. It's a sort of crossover between the X-Men and the story of post-crisis Jason Todd since his death. It's pretty entertaining and enjoyable. What if the thing that brought Jason back from the death was the Phoenix Force, and it gave him crazy powers? This is a fic that works with that.

----------


## Sergard

> I'm looking for any source but word on street is that Lobdell is out with issue 51.


We already speculated that something would happen after issue 50.
And there was also the Kevin Shinick rumour.
Considering how Jason is treated by other writers, I'd rather wish that Lobdell doesn't leave.




> Well, I kind of saw that coming. If it does happen, my best wishes for whatever new project he starts afterwards.
> I hope the new writer, if we get a new one, is good and *respectful enough to follow the book with its mood, interaction, relationships and characters as they've been until this point*.


I hope so too. But my hopes are low. DC writers aren't particularly known for this kind of stuff.


On a positive note, Nick Robles has updated his Jason Todd artwork.

----------


## Zaresh

Weeell, that's looking great. I'm digging it a lot.

----------


## Jackalope89

> We already speculated that something would happen after issue 50.
> And there was also the Kevin Shinick rumour.
> Considering how Jason is treated by other writers, I'd rather wish that Lobdell doesn't leave.
> 
> 
> 
> I hope so too. But my hopes are low. DC writers aren't particularly known for this kind of stuff.
> 
> 
> On a positive note, Nick Robles has updated his Jason Todd artwork.


Judd Winick (the guy who did Under the Red Hood in the first place), with his story in the Robin special, showed he still has a great understanding of Jason. It would just be a question of the Outlaws with him.

Another one that's been a surprise is Tom Taylor. He's done Injustice and DCeased, but his portrayals of Jason, particularly in DCeased: Unkillables, are actually pretty good. And the first time that Jason and Cass have actually teamed up (and can't forget Jason being in the family portrait).

----------


## Zaresh

I don't think Taylor would write the kind of stories that we're having in this book, going by what he has done. He's pretty bizarre, and, while he is a really fun read in a closed and short story, I don't think I would like much a long run of Bizarre Injustice Adventure Where Everyone Gets Violent and Dies.

I mean, I like my cozzy confy heartfelt slow paced drama too. And my introspection. And he kind of tries to in his writing, but doesn't get to reach me, to be honest.

He seems to be more of a fan of other characters anyways. I don't think he's going to approach Jason :/.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Judd Winick (the guy who did Under the Red Hood in the first place), with his story in the Robin special, showed he still has a great understanding of Jason. It would just be a question of the Outlaws with him.
> 
> Another one that's been a surprise is Tom Taylor. He's done Injustice and DCeased, but his portrayals of Jason, particularly in DCeased: Unkillables, are actually pretty good. And the first time that Jason and Cass have actually teamed up (and can't forget Jason being in the family portrait).


Nah, Winnick can only write asshole Red Hood Jason and Fluffy Robin Jason. Taylor is a better pick but I doubt he's interested in something long term with Jason.

----------


## Rise

Lobdell leaving is expected. He spent longer than anyone else on a single character and I'm grateful for what he has done, but it's about time.

Winnick is great, but Jason needs a new blood. If no other writer is able to make him shine, then he should be shevled.

----------


## Sergard

> Judd Winick (the guy who did Under the Red Hood in the first place), with his story in the Robin special, showed he still has a great understanding of Jason. It would just be a question of the Outlaws with him.


I don't think Judd Winick is an option in the first place. It was already surprising that he wrote the Robin special. I can't even remember the last time/thing he wrote for DC before that.
And yes, he wrote a beautiful Jason in the special but I'm not sure how he'd do with the rest of the Outlaws cast. 
I also can't remember if he ever wrote a Jason story that didn't involve someone from the batfamily. Or if Winick gave Jason ever any kind of supporting character.
Red Hood: Lost Days, for example, was a big loss of potential. He could have given Jason some memorable mentors instead of a bunch of no-names.




> Another one that's been a surprise is Tom Taylor. He's done Injustice and DCeased, but his portrayals of Jason, particularly in DCeased: Unkillables, are actually pretty good. And the first time that Jason and Cass have actually teamed up (and can't forget Jason being in the family portrait).


I like Jason in DCeased. But I agree with Zaresh. I don't think Taylor would be a good fit for RHatO. There is just too much death going on in Taylor's stories. He's a better choice for alternate universe stories. Or for stories like Suicide Squad where he can create a bunch of new people and kill them off during the story. Never mind that he has other characters - like Harley Quinn or Green Arrow and Black Canary - that he prefers more. I'm surprised that DC hasn't already launched a new Green Arrow series a while ago.




> Lobdell leaving is expected. He spent longer than anyone else on a single character and I'm grateful for what he has done, but it's about time.
> 
> Winnick is great, but Jason needs a new blood. If no other writer is able to make him shine, then he should be shelved.


I'm fine with Jason being shelved as long as he's completely shelved. 
It would be the worst case scenario if Jason doesn't have an own comic but still appears in other titles (especially bat-titles) where writers drag Jason through the mud so that other characters can benefit.
If RHatO ends with Jason starting a new (bat-free) life in New York including the Outlaws to help Ma Gunn with her school and to raise the kids then I'm very, very happy.

Although I don't think Lobdell will be able to tie up all loose ends in the remaining issues. I would have liked to see Jason reconcile with his grandmother and father.

----------


## Zaresh

I think Jason can keep a niche similar to Moon Knight in Marvel, where he gets short or medium runs now and then, when someone finds a story to tell for him; and people keep buying those books, because they are usually quite enjoyable. He's there, people know him, even when he doesn't get a regular book for him or with him in a team. If you publish a book just for the sake of publishing and see what sticks to the wall with a popular but not massively followed character you don't know who to aim to, you get something like what has happened with Bucky.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

https://twitter.com/Newsarama/status...383776257?s=19

RHO 45 and Unkillables #3 have been added to the list of titles available for shipping in DC's new system. No set release date though.

----------


## Sergard

> https://twitter.com/Newsarama/status...383776257?s=19
> 
> RHO 45 and Unkillables #3 have been added to the list of titles available for shipping in DC's new system. No set release date though.


Is there somewhere a list of all titles that are available?
(Actually, I just want to know if Batman and the Outsiders is on the list.)



Today is Jason's death day. (I'm a little surprised that there was never a Happy Death Day Easter Egg in RHatO.)

And of course there is fanart.

kenny



moon115115



Lele Lenore

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Is there somewhere a list of all titles that are available?


Here's the list

DCEased: Unkillables #3 (FEB200421-3)
Lost Carnival: A Dick Grayson Graphic Novel (DEC190526)
Aquaman #59 (FEB200430-1)
Batman Beyond #43 (Feb200436-7)
Flash #754 (Feb200447-8)
He Man and the Masters of the Multiverse #6 (of 6) (Feb200459)
Justice League #45 (Feb200464-5)
Mad Magazine #13 (Feb200474)
Red Hood Outlaw #45 (Feb200483-4)
Suicide Squad #5 (Feb200489-90)
Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen #10 (of 12) (Feb200495-6)
Teen Titans #41 (Feb200497-8)
Terrifics #27 (Feb200500)
Wonder Woman #755 (Feb200503-4)
Basketful of Heads #7 (of 7) (MR) (Feb200510-1)
Dollhouse Family #6 (of 6) (MR) (Feb200514-5)
Low Low Woods #5 (of 6) (MR) (Feb200516-7)
Plunge #3 (of 6) (MR) (Feb200518-9)
Books of Magic #19 (MR) (Feb200520)
Flash Giant #4 (Feb200528)
Our Fighting Forces Giant #1 (Feb200529)
Wonder Woman Giant #4 (Feb200531)
Adventures of Superman by George Perez HC (Feb200544)
Batman the Caped Crusader TP Vol 04 (Feb200545)
Flash by Mark Waid TP Book 07 (Feb200555)
Harley Quinn & Poison Ivy HC (Feb200562)
Justice League Dark TP Vol 03 The Witching War (Feb200563)
New Teen Titans TP Vol 11 (Feb200568)
Nightwing TP Vol 01 The Gray Son Legacy (Feb200572)
Stargirl by Geoff Johns TP (Feb200575)
Superman Action Comics HC Vol 03 Leviathan Hunt (Feb200576)
Superman Action Comics TP Vol 02 Leviathan Rising (Feb200577)
Superman HC Vol 03 The Truth Revealed (Feb200579)
Wonder Woman & Justice League Dark Witching Hour TP (Feb200582)
Superman Smashes The Klan TP (Jan200630)
Batman Detective Comics HC Vol 03 Greetings From Gotham (Jan200634)
Shazam The World’s Mightiest Mortal HC Vol 02 (Jan200662)
Young Justice TP Vol 01 Gemworld (Jan200678)
Year of the Villain Hell Arisen #3 (of 4) 3rd Ptg (Jan209134)
Green Arrow Year One Deluxe Edition HC (Nov190542)
Weird Western Tales Jonah Hex HC Vol 01 (Nov190566)

No Outsiders.

----------


## Sergard

> Here's the list
> 
> [...]


But is this really the whole list or just the list of the newly added titles?
Because titles like Batman, Three Jokers, Detective Comics, etc. are missing.
In my eyes, it looks like the already known available titles weren't listed in the article.



I found this on V Ken Marion's Twitter:



Is this something new or is this an old panel? 

There are also similar versions of Damian and Dick.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> But is this really the whole list or just the list of the newly added titles?
> Because titles like Batman, Three Jokers, Detective Comics, etc. are missing.
> In my eyes, it looks like the already known available titles weren't listed in the article.


That's the list of newly announced titles to join DC's new distribution plan.

----------


## Aahz

> But is this really the whole list or just the list of the newly added titles?
> Because titles like Batman, Three Jokers, Detective Comics, etc. are missing.


I guess that they are shipping  just the smaller books they had allready printed. They are probably keeping the big sellers for after the lockdown.

----------


## Sergard

Dexter Soy is the best  :Smile: 

_Here's a custom Red Hood suit I did and you can use! #AnimalCrossing #ACNH #NintendoSwitch_





(source)

----------


## Light of Justice

> https://twitter.com/Newsarama/status...383776257?s=19
> 
> RHO 45 and Unkillables #3 have been added to the list of titles available for shipping in DC's new system. No set release date though.


According to newsrama, on May 19 RH:O #45 and D: Unkillables #3 will be available on digital platform and comic book stores that ordered their DC titles through new distributor Lunar and UCS.
And comics ordered via Diamond will go on sale on Wednesday, May 20

https://www.newsarama.com/50000-offi...19-may-26.html

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

At long last!

----------


## Zaresh

> At long last!


Yet so far still! Almost a month. This is sort of like, torture, but soft torture. Softure.

Edit:

Silly slice of life moment that matters to no one. One of those I punish you with.

I was struggling to give the Jason of my last fic some songs to sing that weren't something I would have to make myself, when this night I just found myself singing this one in a loop. Yeah, I'm totally borrowing "Behind Blue Eyes" by The Who. It's folk-esque enough, I like the lyrics and they fill some purpose for some nice scene I have in already pictured in my head. Edit again: not about Jason, but sort of  sarcastically sung.

----------


## Jackalope89



----------


## Sergard

I called my LCS the day before yesterday (because I had forgotten to pre-order Three Jokers.) They told me too that they are expecting a shipment for May 20 or May 21.
But according to them, they are supposed to get all missed out titles (but they weren't 100% sure either).


------

Paolo Pantalena

_Artists are always isolated, quarantine does not affect their lifestile, it takes a lot of focus to work indoor in order to not get distrscacted by all the comforts that surrounds them. This quarantine is strictly related to Red Hood issues I am doing for @dccomics which I am enjoying so much
How you guys are spending your time indoor?
_

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

123. RED HOOD OUTLAW #44 (DC) - 14,158 [130]

https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...0/2020-03.html

Sales, in general, dropped so in perspective, the book isn't doing that badly.

----------


## Sergard

> 123. RED HOOD OUTLAW #44 (DC) - 14,158 [130]
> 
> https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...0/2020-03.html
> 
> Sales, in general, dropped so in perspective, the book isn't doing that badly.


I'm a little surprised that the Robin 80th Anniversary  has "only" 60,011 units.
I thought it would be higher.

----------


## skyvolt2000

Red Hood may end at issue 50.

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/scot...o-end-with-50/




> I couldn't visit for long, it was past my bedtime, but I did pop by and I have just found my notes. Scott Lobdell mentioned that he was bringing his run on Red Hood: Outlaw to an end with #50 of the series, that this might be the end of the series and in doing so, would bring a sense of closure and symmetry to his long run on the Red Hood And The Outlaws characters that began in 2011 with the New 52 reboot.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Well, there's the confirmation of the rumor I heard.

----------


## Sergard

> Red Hood may end at issue 50.
> 
> https://bleedingcool.com/comics/scot...o-end-with-50/


I hope RHatO ends on a good note with Jason and Co. starting a new life in New York.
But it is already nice that the All-Caste, Essence and Isabel are involved.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

https://www.newsarama.com/50040-judd...he-mighty.html

By the way, Winnick has his hands full with creator-owned work, so probably chances are low for him to go back to DC.

----------


## Jackalope89

> https://www.newsarama.com/50040-judd...he-mighty.html
> 
> By the way, Winnick has his hands full with creator-owned work, so probably chances are low for him to go back to DC.


Dang. But I really enjoyed his Jason story he wrote. 

Guess it will be almost strictly fanfics for awhile then when RHATO ends. Barring stuff like Titans and Young Justice animated series (if they use Jason).

----------


## Sergard

Good thing that there are a lot of fanfics. 

For example, I'm still enjoying one day at a time by Nyame very much. So far, there are 29 chapters and the fanfic is updated regularly. The story has been recommended in this thread before but here's a part of the description: 

"In a depressing-but-not-entirely-terrible future, Jason Todd is the third official Batman after the deaths of Bruce and his brothers. Getting into his old age and diagnosed with a terminal disease, he passes on the Cowl to his chosen successor, Terry McGinnis, and spends his last years in peace.

And then wakes up on the day Talia threw him into the Lazarus Pit.

Death called it a gift. Jason can only hope to make the most of it."

All Good Things by pudding_bretzel is also very good. (Story: "Jason listened to Ducra and stayed with the All Caste instead of returning to Gotham. But after the caste is wiped out and he hears news of the Red Hood terrorizing his hometown, he can't escape the pull of his past anymore.") but updates are rather slow and irregular. So far, 9 of supposedly 16 chapters are available. The fanfic has also been recommended in this thread before.

I hope that Civic Duty by meaninglessblah will be continued one day. So far, there's only one chapter but I like the idea:

"Jason wakes with no ID, no phone, and no memory of the last twenty years of his life. And all he's got to show for it is a godawful amount of scars and a spinal injury.
But he's resourceful, so Jason gets himself a job as a courier with the local mob, finds a new apartment, and tries to settle into his new, piecemeal life. No matter how much it doesn't seem to want to settle into him.
It'd be nice if the over-invested vigilantes tailing him could stay well enough away too."

---

And of course, there are not only fanfics but also fanarts that one can enjoy. For example, here are more fanarts that were created for Jason's Death Day on April 27.

gothamtwinks



nockuth



pinkcloverchan

----------


## Sergard

BX



I LOVE JASON TODD



onipilot

----------


## Jackalope89

Tried one day at a time, but not my cup of tea.

----------


## adrikito

Artemis, Bizarro y will MISS YOU.(I know that I will see Jason soon after this)

You were the BEST COMPANIONS.

----------


## Rise

RHATO is ending? It feels like an end of era, but it's a good news. It's better than continuing the series with different writer because the concept is getting stale.

Start completely fresh with new take and ideas for Jason.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Start completely fresh with new take and ideas for Jason.


I'd hate if they just outright throw away nearly a decade of character development. Any future series should build upon what the Outlaws did, not start from zero again.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I'd hate if they just outright throw away nearly a decade of character development. Any future series should build upon what the Outlaws did, not start from zero again.


Agreed. The Dark Trinity right now, one of my favorite team ups.

----------


## Restingvoice

Has Jason ever had a vehicle... a bike, or a car, that he calls The Hood or something? Something inline with Batmobile?

----------


## Jackalope89

> Has Jason ever had a vehicle... a bike, or a car, that he calls The Hood or something? Something inline with Batmobile?


Not really. 

In all honesty, not sure he even really has a signature vehicle at all.

----------


## Sergard

> Not really. 
> 
> In all honesty, not sure he even really has a signature vehicle at all.


Do the others?
I know that Tim has "Redbird" - or had. I'm not sure if the car still exists in this continuity.
Does Wonder Woman still have her Invisible Plane?

----------


## Jackalope89

> Do the others?
> I know that Tim has "Redbird" - or had. I'm not sure if the car still exists in this continuity.
> Does Wonder Woman still have her Invisible Plane?


She did with Rebirth, kind of, but so much has changed since then, I don't even know if Batman has a Batmobile or a Batwalker now.

----------


## Rise

> I'd hate if they just outright throw away nearly a decade of character development. Any future series should build upon what the Outlaws did, not start from zero again.


What development? Jason is literally in the same postion he was in the 2011 title. Angry at Batman and fighting the Untitled with his outlaw team.

I didn't say start from zero, but also don't bother continuing the series and start fresh with something new with Jason because he desperately needs it.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> What development? Jason is literally in the same postion he was in the 2011 title. Angry at Batman and fighting the Untitled with his outlaw team.
> 
> I didn't say start from zero, but also don't bother continuing the series and start fresh with something new with Jason because he desperately needs it.


So you're just going to ignore the friendships he has made over the years, his newfound role as mentor for Generation O, the fact Ma Gunn is his grandmother or the supporting cast he has developed over the years. But most importantly, the huge character grow he has had over the past decade, he finally moved from being angsty and obsessed with Bruce.

----------


## Sergard

> What development? Jason is literally in the same postion he was in the 2011 title. Angry at Batman and fighting the Untitled with his outlaw team.
> 
> I didn't say start from zero, but also don't bother continuing the series and start fresh with something new with Jason because he desperately needs it.


By that definition, Bruce never had any development. He's still fighting crime, especially the Joker, and mourning his parents - the same stuff he did in the 40s.

If we are talking about Jason's position in the batfamily, then I agree. Jason is back to square one. I'd even argue that Jason's position within the batfamily is worse than at the beginning of New52.
Jason pretty much wasted 3 to 4 years of his life making it up to people who simply don't care.

----------


## Rise

> So you're just going to ignore the friendships he has made over the years, his newfound role as mentor for Generation O, the fact Ma Gunn is his grandmother or the supporting cast he has developed over the years. But most importantly, the huge character grow he has had over the past decade, he finally moved from being angsty and obsessed with Bruce.


How did Ma gunn being his grandmother affected Jason in any way? And what supporting cast that got developed? It's only Suzie who went through some changes while Essences and Saru are still the same. 

Also, Jason wasn't obsessed and angsty with Batman in the very first arc in the first outlaws series. 




> By that definition, Bruce never had any development. He's still fighting crime, especially the Joker, and mourning his parents - the same stuff he did in the 40s.
> 
> If we are talking about Jason's position in the batfamily, then I agree. Jason is back to square one. I'd even argue that Jason's position within the batfamily is worse than at the beginning of New52.
> Jason pretty much wasted 3 to 4 years of his life making it up to people who simply don't care.


Depends on your definition of "development". His goal didn't change, but he definitely isn't the same person he was in the 40s.

Same with Jason who went through some changes from the 80s to 00s. He also went through some rapid "changes" under Lobdell that made him look like bi bipolar before he returned to the same point he stared with. A new writer starting freash doesn't mean "a decade of development" being thrown away because there's nothing much to begin with.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> How did Ma gunn being his grandmother affected Jason in any way? And what supporting cast that got developed? It's only Suzie who went through some changes while Essences and Saru are still the same.


Is giving him another supporting cast and the whole thing about their true relationship is something that can be easily developed into a very interesting plotline by other writers. Ultimately that's the biggest boon from Lobdell's long tenure, there's many plot points and characters than can be explored and expanded upon by other writers. Jason has more elements to work with now that simply going the Bane way and get stuck rehashing UtRH ad infinitum. 




> Also, *Jason wasn't obsessed and angsty with Batman* in the very first arc in the first outlaws series.


_Exactly._

RHATO was the first time since Jason's resurrection in UtRH that he was allowed to have a different motivation than just getting back at Bruce.




> Same with Jason who went through some changes from the 80s to 00s. He also went through some rapid "changes" under Lobdell that made him look like bi bipolar before he returned to the same point he stared with. A new writer starting freash doesn't mean "a decade of development" being thrown away because there's nothing much to begin with.


What's this starting point you are talking about?

Before RHATO Jason was a loner, backstabbing ass that only looked for himself and had no care for any collateral damage his actions could bring. 

Now Jason is someone that enjoys working with others, reliable, loyal, and who has mellowed out enough to look for others' well being. He still has a snarky and self-deprecating streak, but that is a core part of who he is, just like being a natural born leader is for Dick or planning ahead for Bruce.

----------


## Zaresh

I'm sure almost no one wants his story with Roy, Artemis and Bizarro, or with the Su sisters, or with the kids, to be erased. Trying new things is good, but I expect them to use those characters and their built story with Jason to be brought back to the new book at some point, being acknowledged, and not erased. Because it's good for Jason as a character; it brings balance to him, having a cast and a history upon which he can base his new ventures.

The new story could start from a different point, be about a different thing entirely and not start just from where he was when this books ends (wouldn't be odd if Lobdell lets Jason alone again, even if he doesn't break ties with his cast at all. But it all depend* on what editorial wants Jason to be in the future, or what the new writer wants to do with him, if they already have someone for him). But whoever gets to write him, please, please, don't forget his previous history: build on it, use it, acknowledge it. It's good history and those are good elements one can use with his character.

----------


## Rise

> Is giving him another supporting cast and the whole thing about their true relationship is something that can be easily developed into a very interesting plotline by other writers. Ultimately that's the biggest boon from Lobdell's long tenure, there's many plot points and characters than can be explored and expanded upon by other writers. Jason has more elements to work with now that simply going the Bane way and get stuck rehashing UtRH ad infinitum. 
> 
> 
> 
> _Exactly._
> 
> RHATO was the first time since Jason's resurrection in UtRH that he was allowed to have a different motivation than just getting back at Bruce.
> 
> 
> ...


What are you even arguing with me about? You are just repeating what I have said in the beginning. 




> What development? *Jason is literally in the same postion he was in the 2011 title*. Angry at Batman and fighting the Untitled with his outlaw team.


I didn't how you twisted my words about how I want a new writer to start freash to I want Jason to return to his older status in pre-flashpoint.

Also, this isn't a development because Lobdell just started his first run with Jason suddenly not caring and already friends with Roy and Kory. He didn't went through some life changes that made him get to that point because he just started with it and with no build up.

I will definitely give Lobdell credits for the way he build up Jason's relationship with Artemis and Bizarro tho because he has done a good job with them (amd while I did enjoy the way he wrote Jason & Roy's friendship, the build up wasn't good).

----------


## Sergard

Why is Jason's "position" defined by how he thinks of Bruce and the villain he  is fighting? This seems like a rather strange and restricted set of parameters. You wouldn't solely define an other character's position by what they think of Jason and their current villain.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Here's a curious pitch for a Bat-family Animated Series

http://www.sodamonkeyent.com/blog/20...-pitched-to-wb





I'm always down for more Batfmaily, but I can't help to feel the pitch is way too close to your average TMNT cartoon.

----------


## AmiMizuno

I have to ask. Does Jason wearing the Batman logo make him less unique or just showing despite everything he still does love his family.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I have to ask. Does Jason wearing the Batman logo make him less unique or just showing despite everything he still does love his family.


Personally, I'm a firm believer of the latter interpretation. The other feels like a cynical "Glass half empty" outlook.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Here's a curious pitch for a Bat-family Animated Series
> 
> http://www.sodamonkeyent.com/blog/20...-pitched-to-wb
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm always down for more Batfmaily, but I can't help to feel the pitch is way too close to your average TMNT cartoon.


Thank you for the share. Visit the link and read the description. So... sounds like it comes straight from tumblr. Not that I mean it's really a bad thing, but.... Well, I guess it's too hard to capture the complexity of each Robins character on animated series. Description of Jason's running gag actually made me wary. 
Although comparing him to Sasuke completely caught me off guard. It never crossed my mind but now I can't help but kinda see the similarities. That means Dick is his Itachi, even though Dick isn't really a great brother to Jason unlike Itachi, especially on Jason's Robin days.
Now I'd like to see fanart of Dick doing Itachi's finger-forehead gesture to Jason. And maybe also to Tim and Damian.

(Although considering the fact that finger-forehead move was used by Damian to drill his fingers into Nobody's skull and instantly kill him, I don't think that gesture is meant to be endearing on DC universe).

Bonus: Is that Batman in boxer? He's so skinny, where's the Bat-abs?

----------


## Jackalope89

> Thank you for the share. Visit the link and read the description. So... sounds like it comes straight from tumblr. Not that I mean it's really a bad thing, but.... Well, I guess it's too hard to capture the complexity of each Robins character on animated series. Description of Jason's running gag actually made me wary. 
> Although comparing him to Sasuke completely caught me off guard. It never crossed my mind but now I can't help but kinda see the similarities. That means Dick is his Itachi, even though Dick isn't really a great brother to Jason unlike Itachi, especially on Jason's Robin days.
> Now I'd like to see fanart of Dick doing Itachi's finger-forehead gesture to Jason. And maybe also to Tim and Damian.
> 
> (Although considering the fact that finger-forehead move was used by Damian to drill his fingers into Nobody's skull and instantly kill him, I don't think that gesture is meant to be endearing on DC universe).
> 
> Bonus: Is that Batman in boxer? He's so skinny, where's the Bat-abs?


Something I noticed while reading the descriptions; Babs gets along best with Jason. I know during the New52 they got along alright, but its about always been Babs and Dick. Hard to tell if its platonic or moving in other directions with how vague it was.

And besides Sasuke (I admit, after I finished the Naruto manga, I never looked back at the series), Jason was also compared to Zuko. I can see that. Minus shouting "honor!" for a base reason for his actions, that is.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Something I noticed while reading the descriptions; Babs gets along best with Jason. I know during the New52 they got along alright, but its about always been Babs and Dick. Hard to tell if its platonic or moving in other directions with how vague it was.
> 
> And besides Sasuke (I admit, after I finished the Naruto manga, I never looked back at the series), Jason was also compared to Zuko. I can see that. Minus shouting "honor!" for a base reason for his actions, that is.


IMO it's definitely platonic, from the concept it implied that Babs will have lovesick feeling to Nightwing and she will have Jason as her talk buddy. So possible girlfriend of Dick, Jason's best buddy, Tim has one sided crush on her and capable to cuddle Damian without losing her limbs or her life. Uh, why does it sound like self-insert reader fic?

Yeah, angry hot guys, love their mother dearly, banished from their own birthlands, had doubt with their morality, only super calm and graceful granpa/uncle can calm them, secretly softie to woman and children, I also can see their similarities. Minus the 'honor', I think it's more Damian's thing than Jason.

----------


## Zaresh

I would argue against more than a few things about how they picture each character, they sound too much archetypìcal and fanfictioney. But then, it is a fan work, not a pro work; so it wouldn't feel fair, being too critical or hard on them. I mean, they're trying to do something quite ambitious in my eyes, and it doesn't look bad, and this is a hobby and I'm sure they're putting their souls and love in it. I would feel bad if I were to nitpick about how many things I don't like about the description of those characters.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I would argue against more than a few things about how they picture each character, they sound too much archetypìcal and fanfictioney. But then, it is a fan work, not a pro work; so it wouldn't feel fair, being too critical or hard on them. I mean, they're trying to do something quite ambitious in my eyes, and it doesn't look bad, and this is a hobby and I'm sure they're putting their souls and love in it. I would feel bad if I were to nitpick about how many things I don't like about the description of those characters.


God it's a fanwork? I thought it was official plan from DC... Aahh stupid me, now I feel bad, I shouldn't have been that harsh. Sorry Soda Monkey, your upcoming project looks great. Fans are free to create their own interpretation for the characters after all.

----------


## Aahz

> And besides Sasuke (I admit, after I finished the Naruto manga, I never looked back at the series), Jason was also compared to Zuko. I can see that. Minus shouting "honor!" for a base reason for his actions, that is.


His discription of Jason doesn't really fit with the manga characters he has chosen, most of them are nor that hot headed, and usally they are (at least in the bigging) the ones that the main character is comparing him self to. Also Rocket doesn't really fit with the others...

Btw. Tim was probaly the least socially akward Robin, and the one with by far the most Girlfriends during the time as Robin. And Dick was irrc in the bronze age comics the one with the one sided crush on Barbara.

----------


## Zaresh

> God it's a fanwork? I thought it was official plan from DC... Aahh stupid me, now I feel bad, I shouldn't have been that harsh. Sorry Soda Monkey, your upcoming project looks great. Fans are free to create their own interpretation for the characters after all.


I mean, I think it is fanwork. Maybe I'm wrong.

----------


## Light of Justice

> His discription of Jason doesn't really fit with the manga characters he has chosen, most of them are nor that hot headed, and usally they are (at least in the bigging) the ones that the main character is comparing him self to. Also Rocket doesn't really fit with the others...
> 
> Btw. Tim was probaly the least socially akward Robin, and the one with by far the most Girlfriends during the time as Robin. And Dick was irrc in the bronze age comics the one with the one sided crush on Barbara.


I think rocket got compared because of their swearing habit

----------


## Zaresh

> I think rocket got compared because of their swearing habit


Which is funny, considering that Jason never swears in the comics. He's actually quite fluent and uses a wide, educated vocabulary, even if it's, I don't know, informal, or casual.

This is one of those things that I dislike about that kind of fan depiction.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I mean, I think it is fanwork. Maybe I'm wrong.


Is an official pitch made to WB, WB passed on the idea but still, is not what I would call a fanwork. 

That is also part of the reason the character descriptions have comparisons with other characters, pitch usually use comparison so executives can quickly grasp the overall idea presented to them.

----------


## Zaresh

> Is an official pitch made to WB, WB passed on the idea but still, is not what I would call a fanwork. 
> 
> That is also part of the reason the character descriptions have comparisons with other characters, pitch usually use comparison so executives can quickly grasp the overall idea presented to them.


Then there is a lot of stuff that I certainly wouldn't like about this draft. And it's not only about Jason. They seemed to have some quite shallow concept of the characters they've chosen, and I'm not talking about their stories and backgrouds. I mean about their personalities and behaviours. In just a few stokes that they have written, I can already see that I wouldn't like their take at all and would probably make me even mad. They would need to work those characters more, imho.

It doesn't even fit the TT-verse kind of take on Dick's character (TT does have a very not comic-like personalities for some characters). Heck. Titans seemed to have a better grasp on the characters, and that was a departure of the comic canon to some degree.

I guess this is a pitch for a kids show?  I get that they need to keep it simple, but, er, you can simplify without making them definitely non-characters. Edit: but, erm if it's for a little kids show, I guess it has a pass. They do seem to be this much like archetypes.

And now I've been definitely on the harsh side about their poject, that they, again, probably are working with their souls. But hey, if this is going to be profitable and make an impact in the audience, with all my respect, I need to speak my mind about it.

Not that they had to care, or they would be doing something wrong. I mean, each verse is their own stuff. But, I know I wouldn't like it a bit. But I'm not the target.

(Edit: I guess the Rocket Racoon comparison is with the movies and not the comics, too. Because movie Rocket was way more likeable that comic Rocket is, as far as I recall. Also, who reads that stuff anyways? Yeah, definitely the movies)

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Personally,  I don't see anything particularly offensive or bad about the pitch. 

The characterizations are simpler than normal with a heavy emphasis in some specific aspects of the characters but given the idea is a self-aware, 4th wall-breaking family comedy in the vein of TTG!, Harley Quinn or TMNT 2012, that is to be expected. The fact the series is actually trying something new with the franchise is what I like the most about the pitch.

----------


## Zaresh

> Personally,  I don't see anything particularly offensive or bad about the pitch. 
> 
> The characterizations are simpler than normal with a heavy emphasis in some specific aspects of the characters but given the idea is a self-aware, 4th wall-breaking family comedy in the vein of TTG!, Harley Quinn or TMNT 2012, that is to be expected. The fact the series is actually trying something new with the franchise is what I like the most about the pitch.


Dick being bassically the silly funny all good and, hah, the hardest to anger is basically that fanfiction depiction of him that I dislike with passion because it makes him a parody of himself and robes him of a lot of very human and sympathetic traits that he actually has. It's like the reverse TTG (which is definitely not Dick either). I know that would annoy me to no end. 

Jason being self-centered, really? And it reads like he wants to be the one in the spotlight, and that's why he's rebeious. Reads kind of like a spoiled but troubled kid.

Tim is anything like socially awkward. Like, at all. He's a nerd now, but even now, he's pretty socially comfortable. He's not an archetypical nerd. He's also very snarky and sarcastic, and even rude. He's funny, but not like that. 

Barbara isn't really an optimist. I mean, as far as I know, she's a very realistic person. She seems very prudent too, for me, in batstandards, I mean.

Only Damian seems to be fine in my book, even when you reduce hm to a few lines. But he's not minuBruce, really.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Dick being bassically the silly funny all good and, hah, the hardest to anger is basically that fanfiction depiction of him that I dislike with passion because it makes him a *parody* of himself and robes him of a lot of very human and sympathetic traits that he actually has. It's like the reverse TTG (which is definitely not Dick either). I know that would annoy me to no end. 
> 
> Jason being self-centered, really? And it reads like he wants to be the one in the spotlight, and that's why he's rebeious. Reads kind of like a spoiled but troubled kid.
> 
> Tim is anything like socially awkward. Like, at all. He's a nerd now, but even now, he's pretty socially comfortable. He's not an archetypical nerd. He's also very snarky and sarcastic, and even rude. He's funny, but not like that. 
> 
> Barbara isn't really an optimist. I mean, as far as I know, she's a very realistic person. She seems very prudent too, for me, in batstandards, I mean.
> 
> Only Damian seems to be fine in my book, even when you reduce hm to a few lines. But he's not minuBruce, really.



That's precisely the point, this is a silly, exaggerated take that is more interested in making funny jokes than in being faithful. Basically a kids friendly Batmetal.

----------


## Zaresh

> That's precisely the point, this is a silly, exaggerated take that is more interested in making funny jokes than in being faithful. Basically a kids friendly Batmetal.


Oh, okey then.

I don't like this kind of parody, but I can see how it works if that's the case.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Which is funny, considering that Jason never swears in the comics. He's actually quite fluent and uses a wide, educated vocabulary, even if it's, I don't know, informal, or casual.
> 
> This is one of those things that I dislike about that kind of fan depiction.


Yeah that was sarcasm. Jason and Rocket for some reason are written like they swear every 5 minutes or something. Even I often found some tags on fanfic Batfam "rate T because of Jason's mouth" like, ugh. Even Rocket doesn't swear that much,  IMO member of GoTG who likes to swear is Starlord.

----------


## Zaresh

> Yeah that was sarcasm. Jason and Rocket for some reason are written that they swear every 5 minutes or something. Even I often found some tags on fanfic Batfam "rate T because of Jason's mouth" like, ugh. Even Rocket doesn't swear that much,  IMO member of GoTG who likes to swear is Starlord.


Dam, I'm dense today. I didn't get the sarcasm either :/.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Dick being bassically the silly funny all good and, hah, the hardest to anger is basically that fanfiction depiction of him that I dislike with passion because it makes him a parody of himself and robes him of a lot of very human and sympathetic traits that he actually has. It's like the reverse TTG (which is definitely not Dick either). I know that would annoy me to no end. 
> 
> Jason being self-centered, really? And it reads like he wants to be the one in the spotlight, and that's why he's rebeious. Reads kind of like a spoiled but troubled kid.
> 
> Tim is anything like socially awkward. Like, at all. He's a nerd now, but even now, he's pretty socially comfortable. He's not an archetypical nerd. He's also very snarky and sarcastic, and even rude. He's funny, but not like that. 
> 
> Barbara isn't really an optimist. I mean, as far as I know, she's a very realistic person. She seems very prudent too, for me, in batstandards, I mean.
> 
> Only Damian seems to be fine in my book, even when you reduce hm to a few lines. But he's not minuBruce, really.


No, there are also some points are wrong on Damian's description :
1. "Favored Grandson of Ra's Al Ghul" yeah if your description of favored Grandson is your Granpa tried to take over your body for his own immortality, gifted you dead bird on your 13th birthday and allow your cousin to kill you for the 'sacred' Year of Blood. Even on comic Ra's said that Damian is allowed to exist for his sufferance. And he never boast to everyone that 'hey, I am the favored grandson of Ra's Al Ghul!', he boast that he's trained by the League since birth, to prove that even though he's underage, he's not amateur and as much pro as other heroes, if not more. But animated Damian is another story, so maybe his character is based on that.
2. "Tries to take charge" that's definitely not true. He may often ignore orders but he never tried to be leader when Batfam work together. On Teen Titans maybe but to be fair he IS their leader because he's the one who recruit them, pay for their facilities, create their training regime, analyze their missions, and make mission reports to his father (except about prison and brainwash criminal). On Batfam? No. Especially when Bruce or Dick are present. When those two are unavailable (like on Robin War), he didn't try to boss Jason and Tim around, instead prefer to work alone. Even on his early Robin days (Dickbats) he never tried to take charge on his mission with Dick but yeah he ignored him alot. 
3. Titus is not Bat-Dog, Ace is. 

I agree, he's not mini Batman, but if they take his character from Animated Universe, i found many comments said that he's like mini Batman, especially on JL vs TT movie. If they really take his character from Animated universe, that's explain.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Dam, I'm dense today. I didn't get the sarcasm either :/.


Don't sell yourself too short, I should have made it clearer XD

----------


## Aahz

> The characterizations are simpler than normal with a heavy emphasis in some specific aspects of the characters but given the idea is a self-aware, 4th wall-breaking family comedy in the vein of TTG!, Harley Quinn or TMNT 2012, that is to be expected. The fact the series is actually trying something new with the franchise is what I like the most about the pitch.


Probaly more TMNT 2018 than TMNT 2012.

TMNT 2012 is not primary a comedy.

----------


## Rise

> Here's a curious pitch for a Bat-family Animated Series
> 
> http://www.sodamonkeyent.com/blog/20...-pitched-to-wb
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm always down for more Batfmaily, but I can't help to feel the pitch is way too close to your average TMNT cartoon.


Shame that WB passed on this. I like the pitch and it's look like it would have been fun.

----------


## qwazer07

> Here's a curious pitch for a Bat-family Animated Series
> 
> http://www.sodamonkeyent.com/blog/20...-pitched-to-wb
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm always down for more Batfmaily, but I can't help to feel the pitch is way too close to your average TMNT cartoon.


Hard pass. The descriptions read like Tumblr wrote them. Batgirl sounds like someone's self-insert.

----------


## K7P5V

If and when *Red Hood* gets another chance at an ongoing,
I'll be hoping the new creative team will continue to explore Jason's mystical side (especially the ALL-BLADES):

----------


## redmax99

those aren't the all blades these are. 
RCO014_1469404848.jpg

----------


## K7P5V

^^^Oops! Thanks for the info. Couldn't resist posting another cool image of Jason's Red Hood.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2020/0...ay-comic-books

RHO #46 is coming out on June 23.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Jason's appearance on this issue of the Adventure Continues

----------


## Zaresh

About B:TAC.

*spoilers:*
It's intriguing. What's Jason aim in this story? Whatever his plan is, it's probably going to be messed up by Slade's steam and his own plot. Jason seems to be alone, by himself. Doesn't seem like he has even a band of any sort. And he seems to be just observant, lurking over them.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## qwazer07

Hell yeah! BTAS Jason! Will he be Red Hood?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

https://www.newsarama.com/50102-dc-g...-schedule.html

Not really surprising but Three Jokers will get a new release date "soon" thanks to the Corona outbreak.

----------


## Sergard

Harley Quinn Confirms a Major DC Death IS Canon

Jason's death is mentioned in Harley Quinn Season 2, Episode 6, "All the Best Inmates Have Daddy Issues".


DC has posted a list of the "5 Baddest Mamas in the DC Universe". Jason's post-crisis mother is second place.



    Martha Wayne (Joker version) in FLASHPOINT: BATMAN - KNIGHT OF VENGEANCE #1-3

     Sheila Haywood (Jason Todds mom) in BATMAN #426-428 (A DEATH IN THE FAMILY)

     Ursa (Chris Kents mom) in ACTION COMICS #844-851 and ANNUAL #11 (LAST SON)

    Granny Goodness in MISTER MIRACLE #5-6 (1971)

    Talia Al Ghul in BATMAN INCORPORATED VOL. 2 #8-9


Oh, and here's a photo of the Red Hood vs. Deathstroke Funko Pop.

----------


## Jackalope89

Makes me wonder if a certain red-helmeted and gun-toting vigilante with a well-earned hated of clowns is running around in the Harley Quinn series.

----------


## K7P5V

> Makes me wonder if a certain red-helmeted and gun-toting vigilante with a well-earned hated of clowns is running around in the Harley Quinn series.


To the utmost, I agree. This would certainly make my day.  :Wink:

----------


## qwazer07

> Makes me wonder if a certain red-helmeted and gun-toting vigilante with a well-earned hated of clowns is running around in the Harley Quinn series.


Could make Red Hood a great nemesis to Harley and the gang. And he can go H.A.M. and brutalize people with the Mature rating.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

And of course the Funko set is a PZ Previews Exclusive.

----------


## Sergard

Here's a nice commission artwork by Robert Atkins (lines) and Timothy C. Brown (colors).





Artwork by another comic artist:


Michael Jason Paz

----------


## Jackalope89

Jason's raised pinky on the gun reminds me of this;

----------


## Sergard

No. Just no. Why is RH:O #48 a tie-in?

----------


## Jackalope89

Unless its so Jason can finally put a bullet between the clown's eyes and go his own way after, not sure I'll be all that invested.

----------


## Zaresh

I hate events.
That being said, I bet it's going to be something like a throwaway line or something like that.
I want to believe.
I had to.

I mean, who would suggest a significant tie-in in a book in its last story arc, in the middle of said arc, that's mean to be the closure to the whole run? No one. It smells like some typical marketing move.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Chances are it won't tie properly into the final arc of Lobdell.

----------


## Rac7d*

Where can I find a Red good face mask, DC needs to get on this

----------


## cc008

> Chances are it won't tie properly into the final arc of Lobdell.


Hopefully since it's just 1 issue, it can be spun so it happens naturally during the arc

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Three Jokers #1 is scheduled for August 25

https://www.newsarama.com/50180-batm...ust-debut.html

And our first look at colored pages with Jason on them



I still don't like that costume.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Three Jokers #1 is scheduled for August 25
> 
> https://www.newsarama.com/50180-batm...ust-debut.html
> 
> And our first look at colored pages with Jason on them
> 
> 
> 
> I still don't like that costume.


At least it's still better than THIS costume :
jason's scene 2.jpg

Not gonna lie, up knowing Joker since 8 years old until now, this is the first time he can make me laugh. With that long shiny mask from Morrison Jason's days, I just can't XD XD I thought it will be on the deepest and darkest part of Jason's drawer, how can Joker get hold of that?

jason's scene 3.jpg
Well, since there's 3 joker, I hope Jason is allowed to kill at least one of them. And does Jason's red hood helmet always has bullet mark on the forehead? This is the first time I see it.

----------


## Zaresh

I think that costume looks better now that in the character sheet that they showed back then.

The batsignal in the costume. Now, that's some ridiculous stuff I didn't know I wanted to see. I bet Jason has some comment on it.

----------


## Restingvoice

> At least it's still better than THIS costume :
> jason's scene 2.jpg
> 
> Not gonna lie, up knowing Joker since 8 years old until now, this is the first time he can make me laugh. With that long shiny mask from Morrison Jason's days, I just can't XD XD I thought it will be on the deepest and darkest part of Jason's drawer, how can Joker get hold of that?
> 
> jason's scene 3.jpg
> Well, since there's 3 joker, I hope Jason is allowed to kill at least one of them. And does Jason's red hood helmet always has bullet mark on the forehead? This is the first time I see it.


If he kills one you think Batman will be pissed or he's just gonna go "eh at least not our one"

half-joke

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

By the way, according to Bleeding Cool, the 5G plans for Batman have been scrapped

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/john...an-5g-no-more/

I wonder what this will mean for Jason.

----------


## K. Jones

> I think that costume looks better now that in the character sheet that they showed back then.
> 
> The batsignal in the costume. Now, that's some ridiculous stuff I didn't know I wanted to see. I bet Jason has some comment on it.


The yellow oval chest signal is something Morrison introduced with Finch in the Incorporated costume. Fabok's a Finch protege so it's not a surprise to see him draw some design influence from looking at his mentor's work.

Also, Fabok might be my favorite in this entire kind of school of artists. There's a lot going on in his influences, where everything is definitely "Fabok" but you can see the Jim Lee influence, the Finch influence, in this particular arc the Bolland influence, in Darkseid War the Kirby influence, and more and more. Obviously having the time to make this series the detail is heavy and excellent. Ivan Reis has that more flowy take on anatomy and posing that feels more fluid and dynamic like Adams and Aparo and the Bronze Age styles. Fabok's figures are stiffer - but it makes sense. It especially makes sense in Gotham with its grim architecture and the Bat-Family in their armored costumes. I like the balance between his Gotham feeling Gothic and Industrial. It doesn't feel like it leans too far one way or the other, and it also feels a dash art deco (TAS) and a fair amount grounded.

I'm curious about the costume designs here, the choices. I imagine there'll be a whole plethora of bonus material and articles about the creation of this project because of the high profile nature of it. I was planning on a short article at some point about the pros, cons, ironies and humors of it being "Another Geoff Johns Picks Up Alan Moore Threads" thing, in a joking sort of way. But obviously already just in this art we've got homages to modern costume riffs, remixed somewhat, a Gotham stylized with influences from multiple periods, a Joker reflective of multiple periods, and direct homages to Killing Joke, Five-Way Revenge, Sign of the Joker, and Mad Love, all in one.

----------


## gohei_

> I still don't like that costume.


Yeah it's not Really much of a costume, is it? Still, The art itself looks dope.

----------


## Zaresh

> The yellow oval chest signal is something Morrison introduced with Finch in the Incorporated costume. Fabok's a Finch protege so it's not a surprise to see him draw some design influence from looking at his mentor's work.
> 
> Also, Fabok might be my favorite in this entire kind of school of artists. There's a lot going on in his influences, where everything is definitely "Fabok" but you can see the Jim Lee influence, the Finch influence, in this particular arc the Bolland influence, in Darkseid War the Kirby influence, and more and more. Obviously having the time to make this series the detail is heavy and excellent. Ivan Reis has that more flowy take on anatomy and posing that feels more fluid and dynamic like Adams and Aparo and the Bronze Age styles. Fabok's figures are stiffer - but it makes sense. It especially makes sense in Gotham with its grim architecture and the Bat-Family in their armored costumes. I like the balance between his Gotham feeling Gothic and Industrial. It doesn't feel like it leans too far one way or the other, and it also feels a dash art deco (TAS) and a fair amount grounded.
> 
> I'm curious about the costume designs here, the choices. I imagine there'll be a whole plethora of bonus material and articles about the creation of this project because of the high profile nature of it. I was planning on a short article at some point about the pros, cons, ironies and humors of it being "Another Geoff Johns Picks Up Alan Moore Threads" thing, in a joking sort of way. But obviously already just in this art we've got homages to modern costume riffs, remixed somewhat, a Gotham stylized with influences from multiple periods, a Joker reflective of multiple periods, and direct homages to Killing Joke, Five-Way Revenge, Sign of the Joker, and Mad Love, all in one.


It is old, then? I didn't know. I've read Inc, but I don't remember it. Nice touch, then. Fun, too: I tend to find that kind of cartoonish gadgets very fun.

Art is very good. It looks great, honestly.

----------


## Zaresh

> By the way, according to Bleeding Cool, the 5G plans for Batman have been scrapped
> 
> https://bleedingcool.com/comics/john...an-5g-no-more/
> 
> I wonder what this will mean for Jason.


I guess thatl at least, whatever they planned for him, they changed the premise for the story a bit. Enough that they don't need to adress the flashforward into a few years of the DCU.

----------


## Restingvoice

> By the way, according to Bleeding Cool, the 5G plans for Batman have been scrapped
> 
> https://bleedingcool.com/comics/john...an-5g-no-more/
> 
> I wonder what this will mean for Jason.


Oh thank f. 5G is a bad idea. Now to wait for someone to reset Jon Kent back to a little kid. 

Was anything planned for Jason? I don't remember him mentioned for 5G.

----------


## cc008

> Was anything planned for Jason? I don't remember him mentioned for 5G.


Don't believe so. Nothing publicly planned after Lobdell's 50th issue.

----------


## Sergard

> At least it's still better than THIS costume :
> Attachment 96604
> 
> Not gonna lie, up knowing Joker since 8 years old until now, this is the first time he can make me laugh. With that long shiny mask from Morrison Jason's days, I just can't XD XD I thought it will be on the deepest and darkest part of Jason's drawer, how can Joker get hold of that?
> 
> Attachment 96606
> Well, since there's 3 joker, I hope Jason is allowed to kill at least one of them. And does Jason's red hood helmet always has bullet mark on the forehead? This is the first time I see it.


The penis helmet didn't originate under Morrison.
Originally, it was part of Joker's Red Hood costume. Or, at least, the first Red Hood is believed to be an old identity of the Joker.



(Detective Comcis #168)

And looking at Fabok's artwork, one of the three Jokers is probably going to be THAT Red Hood.

And no - normally, Jason's helmet doesn't have a bullet mark.

----------


## Jackalope89

> The penis helmet didn't originate under Morrison.
> Originally, it was part of Joker's Red Hood costume. Or, at least, the first Red Hood is believed to be an old identity of the Joker.
> 
> 
> 
> (Detective Comcis #168)
> 
> And looking at Fabok's artwork, one of the three Jokers is probably going to be THAT Red Hood.
> 
> And no - normally, Jason's helmet doesn't have a bullet mark.


Considering he's gone through a few helmets before going all Mortal Kombat, yeah.

----------


## Light of Justice

aHR0cDovL3d3dy5uZXdzYXJhbWEuY29tL2ltYWdlcy9pLzAwMC8yODAvOTE0L29yaWdpbmFsL1JFRF9IT09EX180OF9NYWlu.jpg

Man, Jason will never be free from the damned crowbar isn't he...
Summary of RH : O #48 solicitation :
Jason = F**k this shit I'm out
Can't say I blame him, the whole situation looks like pure mess..

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

RED HOOD: OUTLAW #48
written by SCOTT LOBDELL
art by BRETT BOOTH and DANNY MIKI
cover by DAN MORA
variant cover by PHILIP TAN
In the aftermath of the war between Batman and The Joker, Jason Todd has a few decisions to make. Does Gotham Cityor the world at largereally need the Red Hood? If Jason contemplates retiring the Red Hood mask altogether, what does that mean for Artemis and Bizarro? Can the Outlaws continue to exist without their leader? A family reunion with Ric Grayson doesnt go as planned as he brought along his new friend: Punchline!
FC | ON SALE 08.25.20
$3.99 US | 32 PAGES
FC | DC
This issue will ship with two covers.

----------


## Zaresh

...

Damn it. Not because retirement or whatever, but because it is a straight tie-in.

----------


## Sergard

> RED HOOD: OUTLAW #48
> written by SCOTT LOBDELL
> art by BRETT BOOTH and DANNY MIKI
> cover by DAN MORA
> variant cover by PHILIP TAN
> In the aftermath of the war between Batman and The Joker, Jason Todd has a few decisions to make. Does Gotham City—or the world at large—really need the Red Hood? If Jason contemplates retiring the Red Hood mask altogether, what does that mean for Artemis and Bizarro? Can the Outlaws continue to exist without their leader? A family reunion with Ric Grayson doesn’t go as planned as he brought along his new friend: Punchline!
> FC | ON SALE 08.25.20
> $3.99 US | 32 PAGES
> FC | DC
> This issue will ship with two covers.


So it's the "aftermath of the war" - but Dick is still controlled by Punchline - what?

----------


## Jackalope89

> RED HOOD: OUTLAW #48
> written by SCOTT LOBDELL
> art by BRETT BOOTH and DANNY MIKI
> cover by DAN MORA
> variant cover by PHILIP TAN
> In the aftermath of the war between Batman and The Joker, Jason Todd has a few decisions to make. Does Gotham City—or the world at large—really need the Red Hood? If Jason contemplates retiring the Red Hood mask altogether, what does that mean for Artemis and Bizarro? Can the Outlaws continue to exist without their leader? *A family reunion with Ric Grayson doesn’t go as planned as he brought along his new friend: Punchline!*
> FC | ON SALE 08.25.20
> $3.99 US | 32 PAGES
> FC | DC
> This issue will ship with two covers.


Yep. Dick still living up to his name.

----------


## Sergard

Karl Mostert

_Some ideas i had for the cover of #redhood way back when.  #Dccomics #Dceased_





Final version of the RH:O #39 variant cover:

----------


## Sergard

DCeased: Unkillables #3 Preview



[IMG]https://***********/aiptcomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/dceased-unkillables_32.jpg[/IMG]

----------


## Sergard

preview (continuation)

[IMG]https://***********/aiptcomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/dceased-unkillables_34.jpg[/IMG]

----------


## sifighter

Well I suppose lucky for them Harley and Ivy are still on earth huh. Can’t wait for next Tuesday to see how this ends and sets up for Dead Planet.

----------


## cc008

Pumped for this

----------


## Sergard

Paolo Pantalena

_"MISTRESS TO ME!!!!" ---ARTEMIS---_ 




Paolo Pantalena

_Guess who's back?_

----------


## Zaresh

> Paolo Pantalena
> 
> _Guess who's back?_


Huh. But how?

----------


## Arsenal

Isn’t the new outlaws supposed to team up with the originals via time travel of some sort in issue #46 or 47? I vaguely remember being a thing.

----------


## Sergard

> Isnt the new outlaws supposed to team up with the originals via time travel of some sort in issue #46 or 47? I vaguely remember being a thing.


Yeah, that's #47.




> (W) Scott Lobdell (A/CA) Paolo Pantalena
> The Chamber of All has been excavated by the Untitled in Qurac, which means it's up to Red Hood, Artemis, Bizarro and Essence to prevent an unspeakable horror from wiping out all of humanity once and for all. Sounds like a tall order for the Outlaws? Don't worry, they get help from the most unexpected (and misunderstood) super-team of all time: Red Hood and the Outlaws! All this, plus Ma Gunn learns the tragic reason Monsieur Mallah and the Brain want to teach the students of Generation Outlaw.


But I'm not sure if it's really time travel. It could also be an illusion created by the Chamber of All.


-------------------


Brett Booth

_Little snippet from Red Hood_

----------


## Zaresh

> Yeah, that's #47.
> But I'm not sure if it's really time travel. It could also be an illusion created by the Chamber of All.
> 
> -------------------
> 
> Brett Booth
> 
> _Little snippet from Red Hood_


Oh, right. I totally forgot about that out of time team up.
Also, that art looks good. I didn't know Booth was going to draw for the book. Or is it from the Gen Zero one-shot?

----------


## Jackalope89

Well, I get to read 3 stories with Jason in a central role. So hell yeah I'm looking forward to it!

----------


## Zaresh

> Well, I get to read 3 stories with Jason in a central role. So hell yeah I'm looking forward to it!


What a time to live, right?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Oh, right. I totally forgot about that out of time team up.
> Also, that art looks good. I didn't know Booth was going to draw for the book. Or is it from the Gen Zero one-shot?


Most likely is from issue 48. The Generation one shots are MIA.

----------


## Sergard

This looks really nice  :Big Grin: 

stivens_trujillo_3d_art (follow link for more pictures, also: grey renders)

_ok my friends here is the info about redhood  if you wanna get in you should contact my friend @atf_want before sold out :P
1/4 Scale 25inches
Available in 2 Versions: -Ronin Exclusive-
Comes with:
6 switchable heads (Ronin Helmet, Outlaw Mask, Ronin Demon mask,Jason Todd, Red Hood Classic Helmet and Battle Damaged helmet)
Double Katanas
Crowbar switchable (left hand)
Electric gauntlet (right hand)
Double Jericho Guns
League of Shadows Dagger (Right Hand)
Exclusive Ronin Torso
Classic Brown leather Jacket torso
Torso Stand
-Regular-
Comes with:
3 switchable heads (Jason Todd, Red Hood Classic Helmet and Battle Damaged helmet)
Crowbar switchable (left hand)
Electric gauntlet (right hand)
Double Jericho Guns
League of Shadows Dagger (Right Hand)
Classic Brown leather Jacket torso_

----------


## Sergard

Harley Quinn is ending with #75.
Considering that this is a Joker War tie-in, maybe that means that other titles are ending too?
Will there be a general relaunch?




> No. Just no. Why is RH:O #48 a tie-in?

----------


## Restingvoice

> Harley Quinn is ending with #75.
> Considering that this is a Joker War tie-in, maybe that means that other titles are ending too?
> Will there be a general relaunch?


I hope so, for the new timeline. No more chaotic what's canon or not in Rebirth because they have to stall for Doomsday Clock. Clean and clear. At least until they screw it up again.

----------


## Sergard

> I hope so, for the new timeline. No more chaotic what's canon or not in Rebirth because they have to stall for Doomsday Clock. Clean and clear. At least until they screw it up again.


I wonder if Three Jokers will be of any importance.
If Three Jokers is monthly, then Three Jokers #3 will appear in the same month as RH:O #50 and Batgirl #50.

I haven't read Doomsday Clock but isn't Alfred alive there? So hasn't DC screwed it up already?

----------


## Zaresh

> I wonder if Three Jokers will be of any importance.
> If Three Jokers is monthly, then Three Jokers #3 will appear in the same month as RH:O #50 and Batgirl #50.
> 
> I haven't read Doomsday Clock but isn't Alfred alive there? So hasn't DC screwed it up already?


There are more inconsistences with DDC at this point, but I guess it's fixable with a few stories to justify those changes.

----------


## Sergard

> There are more inconsistences with DDC at this point, but I guess it's fixable with a few stories to justify those changes.


What are the big inconsistencies?
I'm not sure if DC would really take the time to write stories just to fix stuff.


Ah, this fanart is cute  :Smile: 

Mia

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Harley Quinn is ending with #75.
> Considering that this is a Joker War tie-in, maybe that means that other titles are ending too?
> Will there be a general relaunch?


We know by Lobdell's own words that RHATO will go as far as #50 at least with a small chance of someone else picking up the book after him, so I doubt a line-wide reboot is coming. That said, maybe that was the original plan with 5G.




> This looks really nice 
> 
> stivens_trujillo_3d_art (follow link for more pictures, also: grey renders)
> 
> _ok my friends here is the info about redhood  if you wanna get in you should contact my friend @atf_want before sold out :P
> 1/4 Scale 25inches
> Available in 2 Versions: -Ronin Exclusive-
> Comes with:
> 6 switchable heads (Ronin Helmet, Outlaw Mask, Ronin Demon mask,Jason Todd, Red Hood Classic Helmet and Battle Damaged helmet)
> ...


VERY impressive, although the maskless faces need some work. Hair looks like a mop and the mouth mask are just too bulky and cumbersome. Still 1000 times better than anything DC Direct has put out though.

----------


## Zaresh

> What are the big inconsistencies?
> I'm not sure if DC would really take the time to write stories just to fix stuff.


As far as I recall (@Restingvoice, if you know better, please feel free to point so in case I'm wrong). the JSA background and lineup, also Dick being old Dick and usual Nightwing. And Clark Kent's parents being all both alive.

----------


## AmiMizuno

I'm curious. Does Jason hate the other Robins or is he being difficult? Is it kind of like Damian fearing being replaced?

----------


## Zaresh

> I'm curious. Does Jason hate the other Robins or is he being difficult? Is it kind of like Damian fearing being replaced?


I don't think Jason hates any of the other Robins.
Hasn't even when he was fighting them, I think.
Well, maybe Morrison's redhead Jason, which was very OOC for me.
And maybe, just maybe (because I don't remember Lost Days too well), when he was fresh from being alive and "well" again. Very psychotic in a very calm way.

But definitely not after the New 52 reboot, and as far as I know, not before that phase that I mentioned under Morrison. I think, at worst, he felt indifference towards some of them, felt hurt, resent them; but hate, hmm, I don't think so Nest way to know, is reading those comics, which is something I recommend you to do. With questions as this one, you're only going to get very personal and views and opinions.

Being difficult is a bit too "vague". What do you mean with that?
Edit post posting and editing: yeah, exactly. He gets along fine now.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I'm curious. Does Jason hate the other Robins or is he being difficult? Is it kind of like Damian fearing being replaced?


He gets along with all of them now.

----------


## Sergard

> I'm curious. Does Jason hate the other Robins or is he being difficult? Is it kind of like Damian fearing being replaced?


The last time Jason has mentioned the other Robins in his own series was in RH:O #42 as his four brothers (Dick, Tim, Damian and probably Duke).

----------


## Restingvoice

> I wonder if Three Jokers will be of any importance.
> If Three Jokers is monthly, then Three Jokers #3 will appear in the same month as RH:O #50 and Batgirl #50.
> 
> I haven't read Doomsday Clock but isn't Alfred alive there? So hasn't DC screwed it up already?


No, because Doomsday Clock is supposed to be the setup, while the Generation Zero, One, and so on is supposed to be the start of the new timeline, so until the Generation series is out and finished, we won't officially be in the new timeline. 

In the meantime, current authors are finishing up their stories
Damian stop being Robin but the Titans chase after him
Dick Grayson is brainwashed but prepped to return
Jason disbanding Outlaw maybe
Snyder's doing his Death Metal that is what happened if Perpetua won
and of course, now that Legion and JSA are back, The Three Jokers is the story set up in Rebirth they need to finish




> As far as I recall (@Restingvoice, if you know better, please feel free to point so in case I'm wrong). the JSA background and lineup, also Dick being old Dick and usual Nightwing. And Clark Kent's parents being all both alive.


Thing is I don't know when Doomsday Clock is supposed to be set anymore. Flash Forward has more connection to the new timeline because it directly continues to the Generation series where Wally will be the one fixing the timeline.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Oh, this might be a big reason for Lobdell to drop the book.

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/ball...and-the-blunt/

----------


## Zaresh

> Oh, this might be a big reason for Lobdell to drop the book.
> 
> https://bleedingcool.com/comics/ball...and-the-blunt/


Well, that sounds awesome for them. Explains his leaving more, if he's involved in the project. I wish them good luck.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Oh, this might be a big reason for Lobdell to drop the book.
> 
> https://bleedingcool.com/comics/ball...and-the-blunt/


6 figure contract? Well, can't say I blame him. Will miss him on Red Hood and The Outlaws though. He really struck something good with the Rebirth crew.

----------


## Sergard

> 6 figure contract? Well, can't say I blame him. Will miss him on Red Hood and The Outlaws though. He really struck something good with the Rebirth crew.


Man, that series was published two decades ago.
I wonder how it must feel if you are suddenly offered a huge contract for something that you maybe even can't remember that well anymore.
I mean, Lobdell must have written a lot of stuff in his life. There's no way that he can still remember every story-line.

----------


## Sergard

Paolo Pantalena

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Paolo Pantalena


Huh.

That is from the Red Hood/Arsenal era. Specifically from the second issue, where they fight the mimes.

EDIT: 


Is hard to note but is not the same page either.

----------


## Sergard

> Huh.
> 
> That is from the Red Hood/Arsenal era. Specifically from the second issue, where they fight the mimes.
> 
> EDIT: 
> 
> 
> Is hard to note but is not the same page either.


What are the differences?
I only noticed that the pose of the woman looks different but maybe there was a last minute edit for that part in Red Hood/Arsenal #2.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> What are the differences?
> I only noticed that the pose of the woman looks different but maybe there was a last minute edit for that part in Red Hood/Arsenal #2.


That's the difference. If is an older take of the page I posted, why share a pic of it after 4 years and in the middle of teases for future issues? It doesn't make sense.

----------


## Sergard

> That's the difference. If is an older take of the page I posted, why share a pic of it after 4 years and in the middle of teases for future issues? It doesn't make sense.


Because it has Jason and Roy in it?
There aren't a lot of alternatives. Theoretically, Pantalena could also re-create that panel in one of the next issues but why should he re-create everything? For example, that woman is completely irrelevant for the current story arc.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Because it has Jason and Roy in it?
> There aren't a lot of alternatives. *Theoretically, Pantalena could also re-create that panel in one of the next issues but why should he re-create everything?* For example, that woman is completely irrelevant for the current story arc.


We're having time travel next, is not that far out there to assume we're getting meta and we'll see the current Outlaws travel in time and falling into old stories. Anyone read Homestuck? Think of what happened to John when he got retcon powers.

Anyways, DCeased as whole was a solid story but as a Jason one was pretty disappointing. He doesn't anything of note beyond getting knocked out. At least he survived.

----------


## Blue22

Jason may not have done much but I couldn't resist smiling when Jim called him Batman's son

----------


## sifighter

*spoilers:*
 Genuinely I’m glad Jason made it out of this series alive, it means that we may soon see a good reunion between him and Damian when he returns to earth in the sequel 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Zaresh

> Jason may not have done much but I couldn't resist smiling when Jim called him Batman's son


Is it me, or does Jim feel responsible for Jason as some kind of surrogate father?

I have yet to read this issue. I'm glad to hear about Jason's fate, but I have to agree with Dark_T: he had not much of a relevance for the last issues except the first and in the second for a little bit moment. Cass had more emotional relevance, and she didn't have a lot either. Rose was almost in Jason levels of relevance, if not worse. The young-ish characters were the weakest link in the plot, not much more than excuses for the old, parental age characters' drama and struggles.

But I still have to read the last issue.

Edited again: already read it. It was a good last issue. Enjoyable read for the whole story, around 6.5 out of 10 for me.

----------


## Aahz

> Anyways, DCeased as whole was a solid story but as a Jason one was pretty disappointing. He doesn't anything of note beyond getting knocked out. At least he survived.


Which is wired with how prominent he was on the covers.

But it was kind of similar with Taylors Injustice 2 Series, he brought Jason in as the Fake-Batman early in the series and then never really did anything with him.

----------


## Jackalope89

You guys did forget a few things, if kind of minor;

Jason buried Bruce, Dick, and Tim.
Was actually in the family portrait.
Rescued the puppy.
Teamed up with Cass (finally).
Strapped Joker's body to the Batmobile like a hood ornament.

----------


## sifighter

> You guys did forget a few things, if kind of minor;
> 
> Jason buried Bruce, Dick, and Tim.
> Was actually in the family portrait.
> Rescued the puppy.
> Teamed up with Cass (finally).
> Strapped Joker's body to the Batmobile like a hood ornament.


He also protected and trained at least 30-40 orphans and helped get them to safety along with the rest of the survivors. I mean he did drive the batmobile through a horde of anti-life to safety until Wonder Woman stomped him...literally.

----------


## Zaresh

> You guys did forget a few things, if kind of minor;
> 
> Jason buried Bruce, Dick, and Tim.
> Was actually in the family portrait.
> Rescued the puppy.
> Teamed up with Cass (finally).
> Strapped Joker's body to the Batmobile like a hood ornament.


All of this happens in half an issue. And has almost no impact after it happens.

He is an excuse for (cool) things to happen, but emotionally has little impact in the story (I mean, most of the time, you could use any other character and the story would still work as it was), The most important part of his actions, emotionally speaking, are his parts in the first issue up until they reach the orphanage, his blink and you miss relationship scenes with Rose, and when he sees Billy and stops for a second to realize of how sad the whole circumstances are.

Cass, Jim and Slade are the ones that carry the weight of the story, followed by Shiva. The rest are just there doing things sometimes. I've the feeling that Taylor struggles a little with ensemble casts so doesn't surprise for me. But with all tose characters, it's a tough job making them all eve in such a short book.

----------


## Sergard

> Is it me, or does Jim feel responsible for Jason as some kind of surrogate father?


Probably a little bit. Jim has lost Barbara. He's not going to let the kid of a close friend (= Batman) die too. It's a little heartbreaking when he refers to Rose as "your girl" because he's probably thinking of his own girl at that moment. "We've lost enough kids" probably also doesn't just refer to the orphans that were killed by Mirror Master in the bus but also to Barbara.




> I have yet to read this issue. I'm glad to hear about Jason's fate, but I have to agree with Dark_T: he had not much of a relevance for the last issues except the first and in the second for a little bit moment. Cass had more emotional relevance, and she didn't have a lot either. Rose was almost in Jason levels of relevance, if not worse. The young-ish characters were the weakest link in the plot, not much more than excuses for the old, parental age characters' drama and struggles.
> 
> But I still have to read the last issue.
> 
> Edited again: already read it. It was a good last issue. Enjoyable read for the whole story, around 6.5 out of 10 for me.



I actually thought that DCeased: Unkillables was well-balanced, giving attention to everyone - especially to those who died in the end, at least some small but strong emotional moments.
I think it's fine that the survivors didn't have any big moments in the last issue - we'll see them again later on. Unkillables #3 was about cherishing the fallen comrades who gave there life to save the others.

Generally, I enjoyed the character cast. The group - although normally full of moral diversity -  harmonized pretty well. Villains, anti-heroes, a hero, a cop and a bunch of kids vs a zombie apocalypse are a surprisingly great team. 

I also low-key enjoy it that both Unkillables and RHatO have Jason being (partly) responsible for a bunch of kids.

----------


## Zaresh

I don't know @Sergard, but I don't think we will see much of Jim, Jason, Cass or Rose in future stories. Taylor has plenty of characters he can use and likes more for whatever follows unkillables. My bet is that we will see Damian, Jon, Mary Marvel (superhero kids), Harley, Ivy and Constantine (adults) as the leads for it, and the others either background characters or meat to be killed. I may be wrong, but it's what I'm expecting.

As I said before somewhere in this thread, his writing doesn't get me very engaged in the read, and his drama and calls for emotional feelings don't trigger much of an effect for me (I've been feeling the same since Injustice). And art was on a style that I don't like. But it was an ok read, so I'm glad that it was published. And it's good if you guys liked it more (more series are going to be published within this universe, I guess untill next year spring or so: it's crazy popular, it seems).

----------


## sifighter

> I don't know @Sergard, but I don't think we will see much of Jim, Jason, Cass or Rose in future stories. Taylor has plenty of characters he can use and likes more for whatever follows unkillables. My bet is that we will see Damian, Jon, Mary Marvel (superhero kids), Harley, Ivy and Constantine (adults) as the leads for it, and the others either background characters or meat to be killed. I may be wrong, but it's what I'm expecting.
> 
> As I said before somewhere in this thread, his writing doesn't get me very engaged in the read, and his drama and calls for emotional feelings don't trigger much of an effect for me. And art was on a style that I don't like. But it was an ok read, so I'm glad that it was published. And happy, if you guys liked it more.


I don't quite agree. I just can't see why Taylor would pick to skip over Jason in Dead Planet when it would be literally written as Damian/Batman reuniting with his last "brother" or family member outside Alfred. Yes Gordon and Cassandra will be there, but I would expect a much closer connection with Jason, and I would say the same for Jason who had to bury Tim, Dick, and Bruce. I would expect a "last two sons of Batman" moment.

I do expect Mary Marvel to play a much bigger role though. That is gonna be some much needed fire power against zombie Wonder Woman and I'm suspecting golden sun Undead Superman. I mean come on, its Superman literally eating the sun. If he doesn't come back powered up Taylor will have genuinely surprised me, so we will need Cassie/Wonder Woman, Mary Marvel, Jon, and Doctor Fate for this.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

At this point is obvious that Taylor is more interested in writing female characters than male ones. DCeased was mostly told through Lois POV and Unkillables was Mary's story. so I don't expect the trend to be any different in Dead Planet.

----------


## Zaresh

> I don't quite agree. I just can't see why Taylor would pick to skip over Jason in Dead Planet when it would be literally written as Damian/Batman reuniting with his last "brother" or family member outside Alfred. Yes Gordon and Cassandra will be there, but I would expect a much closer connection with Jason, and I would say the same for Jason who had to bury Tim, Dick, and Bruce. I would expect a "last two sons of Batman" moment.
> 
> I do expect Mary Marvel to play a much bigger role though. That is gonna be some much needed fire power against zombie Wonder Woman and I'm suspecting golden sun Undead Superman. I mean come on, its Superman literally eating the sun. If he doesn't come back powered up Taylor will have genuinely surprised me, so we will need Cassie/Wonder Woman, Mary Marvel, Jon, and Doctor Fate for this.





> At this point is obvious that Taylor is more interested in writing female characters than male ones. DCeased was mostly told through Lois POV and Unkillables was Mary's story. so I don't expect the trend to be any different in Dead Planet.


Grrr, I've lost al least 200 words of post while I was writing this.

Sorry if my writing isn't the finest: I'm tired now, it's pretty late and I tend to struggle with English when I'm tired.

To the point then.
I don't think it's a matter of being more interested in female characters, as much as it's that he doesn't know what to do with Jason (or Tim, or maybe even Dick and Babs from the Bats). He clearly enjoys writing Damian, even when he makes him going through some serious drama: he cares for the character and feels like he's having fun writing him. Has written many other male characters before, like Clark or Bruce or Oliver, and has done things with them. And here, he did a pretty readable Slade, who had an arc with motivations and realizations, for as short as this story was. He has his faves, and characters he has ideas for, and that's all.

But I don't think he has any big ideas for Jason. I actually though he had killed him during DCeased, offscreen, without mentioning it, until he wrote that tweet about having an idea for Jason and a sequel after the really positive response over that really, really cool variant cover for DCeased.

The reason why I think he won't write any kind of relevant interaction between Damian and Jason in Dead Planet is because he could have done that twice now, and he didn't. He had it easy in Injustice, and it amount to nothing. He could have used Jason as some kind of aid for Damian in DCeased, using Jason being distant, sort of on his own, from the Bats as some kind of excuse, and again, Taylor chose to use other characters for that task. So I can see Damian having his memento for the family moment with Cass over Jason.

I think that there is a limit to the number of characters that you can use in a relatively short series if you want then to have any kind of reasonable dramatic arc, melodrama, or plot importance (well, maybe not for that last one). We know Damian, Cassie and Jon are going to be tree of those main characters, and I'm counting on him using Mary and Harley too. With Harley, you're going to have Ivy. That makes six main characters for a limited series. That's a lot, if you also add a few villains to the mix. Maybe add someone from the new inbetween digital comic. The rest are going to either be support characters with one or two scenes or be cannon fodder for the new threat (this is an action series, so there's going to be some threat). I can see him using Constantine, but maybe he uses Fate. Mmm, and there's Zatanna too. So many characters from the magic side... It's going to mean something.

Mmmm... I read someone (can't remember who or where) comment that it could be cool if Taylor writes a story about the "hero team" coming back to Earth to find that the survivors are honouring a group of villains as their heroes. I think that's something that Taylor could try, to be honest. It's interesting and original, and could be a fun read.

----------


## Aahz

> You guys did forget a few things, if kind of minor;
> 
> Jason buried Bruce, Dick, and Tim.
> Was actually in the family portrait.
> Rescued the puppy.
> Teamed up with Cass (finally).
> Strapped Joker's body to the Batmobile like a hood ornament.


Still Jason was marketed as a lead character for this story. 




> The blockbuster DC series returns to answer this question: What did the villains do when the heroes failed and the world ended?
> Spinning out of the dramatic events of 2019s smash hit, writer Tom Taylor returns to this dark world with a street-level tale of death, heroism and redemption. Led by Red Hood and Deathstroke, DCs hardest villains and antiheroes fight with no mercy to save the only commodity left on a dying planet of the undead-life!


I think it is fair to expect that he would get at least one big heroic moment in this.

----------


## sifighter

> Still Jason was marketed as a lead character for this story. 
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is fair to expect that he would get at least one big heroic moment in this.


To name a few, and because I have a three picture image limit.

Saves Jim Gordon and Cassandra Cain

B766BEB2-B32E-456B-A1A4-73F93EF689B8.jpg

Fights off the horde to protect orphans so they can get to the buses

1AF9EBBF-4AC1-4D00-A738-F7C14DCB5E87.jpg

Driving the Batmobile in front through the horde, so that he can lead the kids to safety and clear a path

182BE215-6589-4F2B-8E1F-018832ACA36F.jpg

Granted he may not have fought off Wonder Woman, but he doesnt exactly have the power to stand up to her compared to the others that did.

----------


## Zaresh

> To name a few, and because I have a three picture image limit.
> 
> Saves Jim Gordon and Cassandra Cain
> 
> B766BEB2-B32E-456B-A1A4-73F93EF689B8.jpg
> 
> Fights off the horde to protect orphans so they can get to the buses
> 
> 1AF9EBBF-4AC1-4D00-A738-F7C14DCB5E87.jpg
> ...


Again. Doing one-time cool things doesn't mean being a lead character. The story doesn't involve or go into telling about any conflict or struggle or dilema that Jason goes through, he doesn't get any kind of catharsis or resolution, and his part could easily be played by any other character most of the time. That's a supporting character, he's the cool guy/aniki. The most important thing that happens to him, narratively, developement-wise speaking, that he has for him is that he gets into a very under developed relationship with Rose that appears in about 6-8 panels, followed by his whole part in issue 1 with him burying the other bats, rescuing Cass and Jim, finding Babs and leaving Gotham, which was like half the issue or less, maybe. And then that page with him realizing about Billy and shooting him with the other gunners. Driving the batmobile is something that could've been done by anyone else. Cass, or Rose herself I bet. They could have killed Jason after showing how he added any of them to the navigator AI of the car and let it be like that andit wouldn't have changed the story.
That's very little for what was supposed to be a co-lead character as it says in that solicit. Jim had more relevance, had more impact in the reader. Cass too, because her story with Shiva played a big part and used a lot of space.

I mean, I don't really care that his part was small, but, eh, he's not important at all. He doesn't lead the story, he goes through it following other characters leading.

----------


## sifighter

I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree because I don’t think that his role was small, but I will say though that he did share it with others and that he was probably outshined by them a number of times especially in the last issue.

----------


## Aahz

> To name a few, and because I have a three picture image limit.
> 
> Saves Jim Gordon and Cassandra Cain
> 
> B766BEB2-B32E-456B-A1A4-73F93EF689B8.jpg
> 
> Fights off the horde to protect orphans so they can get to the buses
> 
> 1AF9EBBF-4AC1-4D00-A738-F7C14DCB5E87.jpg
> ...


But that all him just shooting Zombies from a distance or driving them over with the car. There is no really good fight scene for him, on the opposite side you get him being one shottet by Shiva and rescued in the end by Gordon.

You also don't see him do anything particularly smart or come up with a plan, there is nor even a reference of him training the kids and for some reason he recognizes Billy but not Mary.

He didn't had fight Wonder Woman, but some more spectacular panels of him killing zombies, or rescuing kids from Zombies, or maybe him killing one of lesser superpowered zombies (Bane or Mirror Master) should have been there.

----------


## Sergard

> Still Jason was marketed as a lead character for this story. 
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is fair to expect that he would get at least one big heroic moment in this.


I agree that the solicitations were misleading, not just regarding Jason's part. But I still enjoyed Unkillables and Jason being part of the cast.

I also agree with people expecting that Jason won't have a big part in Dead Planet. The next title will focus on a) introducing the new Justice League and probably (hopefully) b) defeating Superman and Wonder Woman. That's not Jason's territory. Out of the people, who are currently in the Garden, Mary Marvel, Harley Quinn, Poison Ivy, Zatanna, Constantine and Dr Fate will probably have the most relevance - and those are already a lot of people for a six issues series. Further, I expect that some of the kids will pick up the identities of the fallen villains. I can totally see Matilda becoming the new Cheetah and Zaid the new Deadshot.

But if there was something like "Hope At World's End" for the missing years between Unkillables and Dead Planet, I'd be down for it. With Deathstroke and Co. gone, it's up to Jason, Cass and Rose to train those kids. I also wonder if they'll look for other survivors or if it's impossible to leave the Garden. I'd also like to see some interactions between the Garden people and the Unkillables cast. Harley and Jason talking about Joker, or Jim Gordon talking to Harley and Ivy about Barbara (since zombie Barbara was killed by them) could be interesting. It's also a shame that there weren't more interactions between Jason and Cass - and I think not any between Rose and Cass.

Here's some fun fact about Karl Mostert and Unkillables (source):

_This is one of the first pics i did for @Ben_Abernathy
 That i think got me the job for #DCeased #Unkillables @RexLokus
 put these amazing colours on here and brought it to life.  I like to think it swayed @TomTaylorMade
 as well.  #Deathstroke #Giganta #Krypto #DCcomics_

----------


## sifighter

> I agree that the solicitations were misleading, not just regarding Jason's part. But I still enjoyed Unkillables and Jason being part of the cast.
> 
> I also agree with people expecting that Jason won't have a big part in Dead Planet. The next title will focus on a) introducing the new Justice League and probably (hopefully) b) defeating Superman and Wonder Woman. That's not Jason's territory. Out of the people, who are currently in the Garden, Mary Marvel, Harley Quinn, Poison Ivy, Zatanna, Constantine and Dr Fate will probably have the most relevance - and those are already a lot of people for a six issues series. Further, I expect that some of the kids will pick up the identities of the fallen villains. I can totally see Matilda becoming the new Cheetah and Zaid the new Deadshot.
> 
> But if there was something like "Hope At World's End" for the missing years between Unkillables and Dead Planet, I'd be down for it. With Deathstroke and Co. gone, it's up to Jason, Cass and Rose to train those kids. I also wonder if they'll look for other survivors or if it's impossible to leave the Garden. I'd also like to see some interactions between the Garden people and the Unkillables cast. Harley and Jason talking about Joker, or Jim Gordon talking to Harley and Ivy about Barbara (since zombie Barbara was killed by them) could be interesting. It's also a shame that there weren't more interactions between Jason and Cass - and I think not any between Rose and Cass.
> 
> Here's some fun fact about Karl Mostert and Unkillables (source):
> 
> _This is one of the first pics i did for @Ben_Abernathy
> ...


Okay it’s official, I want that as a poster on my wall.

----------


## Zaresh

> Okay it’s official, I want that as a poster on my wall.


It's calling for a wall to be posted in, clearly. Like some zombiepocalypse version of The Last Judgement (it's not like that one, but, you get what I mean).

----------


## Sergard

Has anyone else read Batman: The Adventures Continue #4 yet?

----------


## Zaresh

> Has anyone else read Batman: The Adventures Continue #4 yet?


Not yet. I wasn't even aware of this issue being out already. I've been caught into IRL stuff (like expending my whole afternoon and evening looking which one is the new bird that sounds so strong in our backyard. Seems like we've got a robin there now. The little guy sounds so strong, I though it was inside home, not out the building, in the adjacent house (a country house: I live in a block). Seems like we have a whole flock of assorted birds there: this year we've find out a couple of collared doves too. New species to the zoo alongside this robin).

----------


## Jackalope89

I read it. It didn't "show" Jason, but now Batman is aware "someone" is watching him.

----------


## Sergard

> I read it. It didn't "show" Jason, but now Batman is aware "someone" is watching him.


I'm not even 100% sure that this "someone", that Bruce noticed, was Jason. The artist didn't even draw a silhouette. Theoretically, this could be a red herring and instead of Jason this was, for example, Deathstroke's accomplice from the last chapter. Maybe I'm overthinking stuff, but it feels strange that the artist didn't even draw a silhouette. Readers already know that Jason is watching Bruce. So why this sudden "mystery"?

----------


## Jackalope89

> I'm not even 100% sure that this "someone", that Bruce noticed, was Jason. The artist didn't even draw a silhouette. Theoretically, this could be a red herring and instead of Jason this was, for example, Deathstroke's accomplice from the last chapter. Maybe I'm overthinking stuff, but it feels strange that the artist didn't even draw a silhouette. Readers already know that Jason is watching Bruce. So why this sudden "mystery"?


Mystery for Bruce and his Bats.

----------


## Sergard

Titans Star Curran Walters Says He's Down for a Red Hood Spinoff




> Currant Walters wouldn't mind seeing his Robin on Titans become the Red Hood. The star of the DC Universe series isn't sure when he'll begin filming for the show's third season, but he tells ComicBook.com that he'd be willing to take Jason Todd into a Red Hood spinoff series. "Yeah, I mean, that would be pretty cool," Walters said during an episode of ComicBook.com's Talking Shop. "I mean, it all depends on what the team thinks and where the Titans writers decide to go so. It'd be cool if we even got to the storyline on Titans someday. We'll definitely see."
> 
> Walters also says that he wasn't a huge comic book fan before being cast as Jason Todd. Figuring the character out required some research.
> 
> "I wasn't that too crazy into comics," Walters says. "I knew, of course, of Batman and Robin and all the other crazy famous characters. But as soon as I booked the role, I went out to the local comic book stores, and I got everything I could find on Jason's story, obviously to get kind of a feel for where the future of the character goes, if it goes that way. I watched the movie. I read all the comic books, and I got a feel for the character and where I needed to take it when I got on screen.
> 
> "You know, on the day, you have all this pressure of booking a comic book role, especially since the character's been around for so long. You feel a sort of pressure on you, but I just did my best, and I think I nailed the role, and all the fans are pretty happy with it. And one thing about the character too is like, I felt like in a way I did have to act, but I didn't. It's all how I am in person. I'm very energetic. I'm very just all over the place. So, half of it was like, 'Hey, that's just me' and half of it was, 'Oh, I got to act,' so. It was definitely awesome."
> 0comments
> 
> Walters discussed some of his favorite Jaston Todd moments, including some he'd like to see in Titans. "Man, I think obviously, one of the most iconic things, it would be pretty cool to like have the Batmobile stealing of the tires. That's a pretty memorable scene for me, for sure. So that would be fun. Obviously, the whole Joker thing would be a dream, ideal world. But, yeah, we'll see. I'm so thrilled to get that first script of the season and see what happens."

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Nice gesture from him but he doesn't have the body type nor the presence that I associate with Jason as Red Hood.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Nice gesture from him but he doesn't have the body type nor the presence that I associate with Jason as Red Hood.


If they made Jason as Red X instead...

----------


## cc008

> Nice gesture from him but he doesn't have the body type nor the presence that I associate with Jason as Red Hood.


Completely agreed.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Anyone knows what happened to the Titans 100-page Spectaculars? I'm really curious to see if Jason is indeed a Titan in those.

----------


## Sergard

> Anyone knows what happened to the Titans 100-page Spectaculars? I'm really curious to see if Jason is indeed a Titan in those.



I've only seen two panels.  This one (from "Bride of Blood", Titans Giant #2):

[IMG]https://***********/s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/dcn-wp/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/27220827/Titans-Giant-2-Jason-and-Garth.jpg?resize=640%2C290&ssl=1[/IMG]

(source)


And this one (although I'm confused since the tags say that this is from Titans Giant #1. Is there a story with Jason in Titans Giant #1?)



(source)

----------


## Zaresh

> And this one (although I'm confused since the tags say that this is from Titans Giant #1. Is there a story with Jason in Titans Giant #1?)
> 
> 
> 
> (source)


*cough cough*
Did Donna say what I think she said? Did she make a shipping joke? Or is my Enlgish failing me here and I'm missunderstanding what she says?

----------


## Rise

> I've only seen two panels.  This one (from "Bride of Blood", Titans Giant #2):
> 
> [IMG]https://***********/s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/dcn-wp/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/27220827/Titans-Giant-2-Jason-and-Garth.jpg?resize=640%2C290&ssl=1[/IMG]
> 
> (source)


The reviewer making a comment about how Jason isn't a team player is weird. I mean, come on. He has been running with a team for almost 10 years now.

And for Curren's interview. He really did a great job as Jason and was the best (and the only good) part about the show, but I have disliked everything else about it and I don't want a Red Hood series to be attached to it.

----------


## Zaresh

> The reviewer making a comment about how Jason isn't a team player is weird. I mean, come on. He has been running with a team for almost 10 years now.
> 
> And for Curren's interview. He really did a great job as Jason and was the best (and the only good) part about the show, but I have disliked everything else about it and I don't want a Red Hood series to be attached to it.


Superboy was good too. And Bruce.

But only those few highlights. God, was the S2 one of the worst things I watched last year.. Or at least the few first episodes. It could've been so, so, so much better.

----------


## Sergard

Here's a little story by doc-squash: "Checkmate"

----------


## Sergard



----------


## Sergard



----------


## Sergard

(The end)

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Yet another look back at DOTF

https://www.newsarama.com/50331-batm...ason-todd.html

----------


## AmiMizuno

I'm curious. If Jason had to get another comic, what should another comic be about? Maybe bonding with other Dc heroes? I would have said maybe a Dick and Jason comic book. But how close even are the two right now?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I'm curious. If Jason had to get another comic, what should another comic be about? Maybe bonding with other Dc heroes? I would have said maybe a Dick and Jason comic book. But how close even are the two right now?


My ideal book would be Jason traveling all around the world taking down criminal syndicates, cartels, mystical threats, and the occasional supervillain. So pretty much just a more streamlined version of that Red Hood Arsenal was. I don't think him leading a team is strictly necessary but he would definitely need a supporting cast. I'd try to keep the Batfamily out of it because the more involvement they have, the less freedom the book would get.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I'm curious. If Jason had to get another comic, what should another comic be about? Maybe bonding with other Dc heroes? I would have said maybe a Dick and Jason comic book. But how close even are the two right now?


Other than the first Rebirth annual, Jason and Dick have never been close. Not always hostile to one another, but not close. 

Instead, I'd rather Jason's adventures with the Rebirth Outlaws continued, with much of the cast Lobdell has provided thus far.

----------


## K7P5V

> I'm curious. If Jason had to get another comic, what should another comic be about? Maybe bonding with other Dc heroes? I would have said maybe a Dick and Jason comic book. But how close even are the two right now?


Definitely would love further exploration of Jason's mystical side (especially the *All-Blades*):

----------


## Arsenal

I’m all for DC further exploring Jason’s mystical side. It doesn’t have to be the primary focus of the series (but I’d totally be okay if it was) but it’s something I’d love to see explored more.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

https://twitter.com/DCComics/status/...268412417?s=19

Winnick talked about Red Hood on DC daily.

Can't watch it due to not being in the US though.

----------


## AmiMizuno

> Other than the first Rebirth annual, Jason and Dick have never been close. Not always hostile to one another, but not close. 
> 
> Instead, I'd rather Jason's adventures with the Rebirth Outlaws continued, with much of the cast Lobdell has provided thus far.



Is it due to how different they are? I often thought the two looked at each other as brothers. Then again they still could. I mean Jason will still work with his family despite having issues.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Is it due to how different they are? I often thought the two looked at each other as brothers. Then again they still could. I mean Jason will still work with his family despite having issues.


Jason and Dick have always been depicted as being at odds with each other for some reason or another but when needed, they are able to set those differences aside and work together. With that said, Jason has been mostly a loner and would rather go his own way with his own friends that keep hanging around his family, not because he hates them or anything but simply because that is how he rolls.

----------


## Aahz

> Is it due to how different they are? I often thought the two looked at each other as brothers. Then again they still could. I mean Jason will still work with his family despite having issues.


The thing is that during Jason's time as Robin Dick wasn't really around, he was mostly with the Teen Titans, and even on the two occasions Jason was with the Titans Dick wasn't there (and at that point it was still debatable if it was pre of post crisis Jason).

----------


## Sergard

Judd Winick

Judd Winick comment 29-05-2020 part 1.jpg

Judd Winick comment 29-05-2020 part 2.jpg

----------


## Zaresh

> Judd Winick
> 
> Judd Winick comment 29-05-2020 part 1.jpg
> 
> Judd Winick comment 29-05-2020 part 2.jpg


Jason's own brand of batdramatics, I think.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Definitely would love further exploration of Jason's mystical side (especially the *All-Blades*):


We will never see the all blades again
Jason needs to pose with guns since that is his brand

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> We will never see the all blades again
> Jason needs to pose with guns since that is his brand


You missed issue #45, I see. 


https://twitter.com/DCComics/status/1264284951521955840

----------


## Rac7d*

> You missed issue #45, I see. 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/DCComics/status/1264284951521955840


Where has he been hiding those all this time?
Their like the electric ecrisma sticks   To much heat for a normal story

----------


## Arsenal

A pair of magic swords that appear out of thin air & can only be used against magical entities (plus taking a bit of his soul after ever use) wouldn’t break anything in a normal story.

----------


## Sergard

I found a Twitter post about DC cameos in "Ready Player One" (2018 American science fiction adventure film directed by Steven Spielberg). I wasn't aware that this was even a thing. Here are screenshots of the Arkham Knight cameos.

----------


## cc008

Wow! Had no idea Jason made a cameo in the movie. Very cool little easter egg.

----------


## Jackalope89

That is pretty cool!

----------


## Rise

AK cameo is pretty old news and we talked about it here before. It's still interesting to see it again.

----------


## Sergard

> AK cameo is pretty old news and we talked about it here before. It's still interesting to see it again.


I'm aware that it's old news (the movie is from 2018) but I was pretty surprised when I saw the screenshots and thought that maybe others didn't know about it either.
No harm done in sharing some screenshots.  :Smile: 


But here's something newer. A few days ago, Dexter Soy posted a WIP of an Artemis drawing.
There was no further information but maybe we are lucky and Dexter Soy is going to draw RH:O #50?





And here's a Red Hood commission by Tony S Daniel.

----------


## AmiMizuno

I'm curious does Jason still need to hided his idenity to the public?

----------


## Sergard

> I'm curious does Jason still need to hided his idenity to the public?


Jason is officially legally alive again since Red Hood: Outlaw #32.
The story even has a nice twist since he didn't declare himself legally alive just to be legally alive again but because he wanted to give a friend and her family the chance for a better life.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

And to piss of Bruce. Personally I think that was the main reason.

----------


## Jackalope89

> And to piss of Bruce. Personally I think that was the main reason.


2 birds, one stone.

No pun intended.

----------


## AmiMizuno

This beings me to another question. With how Red Hood and Outlaws started should Jason even had gone back to Batfam. I mean in a sense he was just doing his own thing. Not wanting to talk to Bruce. Or anyone of his fam. In fact, he has or will be. I mean did he work better on his own.

----------


## Aahz

> This beings me to another question. With how Red Hood and Outlaws started should Jason even had gone back to Batfam. I mean in a sense he was just doing his own thing. Not wanting to talk to Bruce. Or anyone of his fam. In fact, he has or will be. I mean did he work better on his own.


Honestly I think he needs to be part of the Batfamily in some capacity to sell books.

----------


## redmax99

but jason was legally alive before red hood 32. bruce had current pictures of him on his office desk not to mention being public out with him and the boys in his own book

----------


## Sergard

> And to piss of Bruce. Personally I think that was the main reason.


The scene feels a little strange considering that Jason and Bruce had just reconciled in RH:O #27.
And I'm not completely dismissing the possibility that there was some editorial BS going on in the background.
Personally, I'm tired of conflicts between Jason and Bruce. Well, I'm generally tired of any conflicts within the batfamily/hero community. 




> This beings me to another question. With how Red Hood and Outlaws started should Jason even had gone back to Batfam. I mean in a sense he was just doing his own thing. Not wanting to talk to Bruce. Or anyone of his fam. In fact, he has or will be. I mean did he work better on his own.


The first volume of the New52 run was named REDemption. And redemption is still a big theme in RHatO. 
Reconciling with the people you have hurt is part of redemption. One could even say that the red bat on Jason's chest was his version of "The Scarlet Letter".
But Jason could have redeemed himself without being an official member of the batfamily.
I can't even remember when and how Jason was re-integrated in the batfamily. It definitely wasn't right at the beginning of New52. In RHatO #9 Batgirl threatens Jason with jail time. 






> but jason was legally alive before red hood 32. *bruce had current pictures of him on his office desk* not to mention being public out with him and the boys in his own book


When did that happen?
With "public out" you mean the Batburger scene?

----------


## redmax99

> The scene feels a little strange considering that Jason and Bruce had just reconciled in RH:O #27.
> And I'm not completely dismissing the possibility that there was some editorial BS going on in the background.
> Personally, I'm tired of conflicts between Jason and Bruce. Well, I'm generally tired of any conflicts within the batfamily/hero community. 
> 
> 
> 
> The first volume of the New52 run was named REDemption. And redemption is still a big theme in RHatO. 
> Reconciling with the people you have hurt is part of redemption. One could even say that the red bat on Jason's chest was his version of "The Scarlet Letter".
> But Jason could have redeemed himself without being an official member of the batfamily.
> ...


yeah not to mention the  picture in teen titans which was new

----------


## Zaresh

> And to piss of Bruce. Personally I think that was the main reason.


Two birds, one stone (like @jackal said already). I don't think he liked or acknowledged Bruce's rule about being banned from the city. So he definitely delivered his point, with being there as Jason Todd, Bruce Wayne's ward, but not operating as Red Hood.

Jason is just practical.

I think they started to work together around the Death fo the Family's event/crossover.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

It was earlier, during the Night of Owls crossover. As always, it was due to editorial orders. On pre-release interviews Lobdell said his goal was to not even mention the B-word through the first year of the series at least since he wanted to get Jason out of Bruce's shadow and let him find his own place on the DCU first.

----------


## Sergard

> yeah not to mention the  picture in teen titans which was new


You mean the Teen Titans Annual? As far as I recall, that picture is hanging somewhere in the Wayne manor, and the manor is not a public space. Basically, only members of the batfamily are even able to see that picture. 




> It was earlier, during the Night of Owls crossover. As always, it was due to editorial orders. On pre-release interviews Lobdell said his goal was to not even mention the B-word through the first year of the series at least since he wanted to get Jason out of Bruce's shadow and let him find his own place on the DCU first.


I agree that the Night of Owls crossover was probably the first step to re-integrating Jason into the batfamily, but back then Jason wasn't already considered part of the family. Batgirl's reaction at the end is proof enough.

-------

Nick Robles is drawing donation sketches to support BLM. And one of the donators asked for a Jason Todd sketch (there's also an awesome Duke Thomas sketch).

----------


## AmiMizuno

I mean to a certain extent are all of them okay with Jason now or is he still like an issue? Because he didn't need to go to Bruce or anything. I get in a sense moneywise for DC it makes sense. I only say this since there is only so much you can do with family issues in Batfam book that becomes an issue. like Damian being a jerk. He can be a jerk but there is only so much. I'm not saying Jason has to act as nothing happened and be buddy. Rather the tension should die down.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Something important to keep in mind is that ultimately, the characters are beholden to the whims of their writers, and they, in turn, have to deliver whatever editorial asks of them. So is kind of a pointless thing to worry about if Jason hates his brothers and whatnot since he will be whatever Editorial needs of him regardless if it fits the current narrative of his own book. More often than not, anytime Jason ends up acting out of character is because editorial is forcing him into specific roles rather than integrating him organically into the plot.

----------


## Sergard

> *I mean to a certain extent are all of them okay with Jason now or is he still like an issue?* Because he didn't need to go to Bruce or anything. I get in a sense moneywise for DC it makes sense. I only say this since there is only so much you can do with family issues in Batfam book that becomes an issue. like Damian being a jerk. He can be a jerk but there is only so much. I'm not saying Jason has to act as nothing happened and be buddy. Rather the tension should die down.


It changes with every writer. Sometimes members of the batfamily are okay with Jason, sometimes not. It's inconsistent. The most consistent relationship Jason has with a batfamily member is probably Alfred - and Alfred is dead. Jason's character is not in a good place within the batfamily (well, there are other members of the batfamily who are in a bad place too, in my opinion). Just one more reason why Jason should stop interacting with the other bats. Whatever relationships one writer builds up, the next writer will ignore and maybe even contradict.

I don't think that the batfamily soap opera drama will ever stop. Heroes being in conflict with each other is a common comic trope. And there's a bigger chance for characters who are close to each other to be used for such kind of drama. Even if it's getting repetitive. For example, Batman: Pennyworth R.I.P. isn't that different from The Trial of Batwoman. And Joker War reminds me of Death of the family - just that Joker War is also used to introduce the character Punchline. Well, maybe Punchline's introduction is even more important than the batfamily. It's hard to say. There's at least a lot of hype for Punchline - and not a lot of talk or information about the involvement of the "batfamily" (Just the four main Robins and Barbara feels a little restrictive) in Joker War.


----


Batman: The Adventures Continue (2020-) #5 is out since yesterday. Has anybody else read it yet?
It's the first chapter that I actually enjoy.

----------


## AmiMizuno

True. I get every family has its issues. That's what makes any family real. Heck, the same issues can repeat themselves. But there comes a point where it doesn't feel like the characters go anywhere at times. This is why at times I feel the same with Dick maybe Jason shouldn't be in the Batfam. Take a break.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Batman: The Adventures Continue (2020-) #5 is out since yesterday. Has anybody else read it yet?
> It's the first chapter that I actually enjoy.


Yep. Good chapter. The plot deepens. 
*spoilers:*
Though Jason was genuinely shocked that Slade planned to kill Batman. Which raises its own questions to what Jason's plans are.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## AmiMizuno

Speaking of which. In an old episode of TT Go Dick goes to the Bat Cave. That Jason is the favorite Robin. Is that just a joke or the is it pointing to the fact Batman was suprised with the tire stealing

----------


## Zaresh

> Speaking of which. In an old episode of TT Go Dick goes to the Bat Cave. That Jason is the favorite Robin. Is that just a joke or the is it pointing to the fact Batman was suprised with the tire stealing


TTG's Dick is a self-centered jerk. I wouldn't take anything from his mouth as some actual fact.
That being said, there's an old, running joke about Jason being Bruce's favourite, or at least, his dearest, because how he took his death. But it's pretty old, isn't very widespread and as far as I'm aware, it's just a joke.

(Why isn't the past participle of spread, sprod or something else? It's because it sounds like read or something? Damn English, get your sh*t together!)

----------


## Sergard

> Yep. Good chapter. The plot deepens. 
> *spoilers:*
> Though Jason was genuinely shocked that Slade planned to kill Batman. Which raises its own questions to what Jason's plans are.
> *end of spoilers*


And Jason has eyebrows now. I think @Zaresh will be very happy hearing this  :Smile: 

----

Could this be an upcoming cover or variant?

Paolo Pantalena

----------


## Zaresh

> And Jason has eyebrows now. I think @Zaresh will be very happy hearing this


Yes. I like me some eyebrows, as they say somewhere  :Big Grin: .

Looks like some commission for me. It doesn't have much space for the hypothetical title up there.

----------


## Sergard

WB should fund House of Batman - there's a petition on change.org for House of Batman.
I'm a little surprised (positively). I've also found House of Batman fanart on Twitter. Seems like the dismissed cartoon concept is more popular than I thought.

sumi




Kookaocin




mtam02

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

https://www.instagram.com/p/B9FRzd0BaKq/

----------


## Sergard

I found this comment on Reddit:

_"[..]There was a period where he was on the outs with the Batfamily and apparently couldnt be used. Michael Moreci said that he could not use certain characters as part of the Batfamily, including Jason two years ago, and that still seemed to be the case up to last summer when Dick and Jason were kept out of City of Bane. However like Ric Grayson or Tims death, whatever the plan was with Jason being on the outs was an editorial edict that never led anywhere and what the actual plan was remains a mystery and has likely now been discarded.[...]"_

Was this really a thing?

----------


## Jackalope89

> I found this comment on Reddit:
> 
> _"[..]There was a period where he was on the outs with the Batfamily and apparently couldn’t be used. Michael Moreci said that he could not use certain characters as part of the Batfamily, including Jason two years ago, and that still seemed to be the case up to last summer when Dick and Jason were kept out of City of Bane. However like Ric Grayson or Tim’s death, whatever the plan was with Jason being on the outs was an editorial edict that never led anywhere and what the actual plan was remains a mystery and has likely now been discarded.[...]"_
> 
> Was this really a thing?


There was the whole fallout from Jason not-shooting Penguin and Bruce beating the living daylights out of him. And Damian accusing him, twice, of things he didn't do. But with Alfred, Tim (weren't the two on good terms before Tim "died"?), and Babs, we really didn't get anything. Not to my knowledge.

----------


## Zaresh

> https://www.instagram.com/p/B9FRzd0BaKq/


^_^

I like this one.
But I think Buck fits Dick way better. A Dick who had a lot of bad luck. A lot.




> I found this comment on Reddit:
> 
> _"[..]There was a period where he was on the outs with the Batfamily and apparently couldn’t be used. Michael Moreci said that he could not use certain characters as part of the Batfamily, including Jason two years ago, and that still seemed to be the case up to last summer when Dick and Jason were kept out of City of Bane. However like Ric Grayson or Tim’s death, whatever the plan was with Jason being on the outs was an editorial edict that never led anywhere and what the actual plan was remains a mystery and has likely now been discarded.[...]"_
> 
> Was this really a thing?


Since Doomsday Clock started, it felt like they were isolating all bats from each other, over the whole family. Perhaps this is true, I don't know.

----------


## Jackalope89

> ^_^
> 
> I like this one.
> But I think Buck fits Dick way better. A Dick who had a lot of bad luck. A lot.


In that case, who would be Jason's counterpart in Marvel?

----------


## Zaresh

> In that case, who would be Jason's counterpart in Marvel?


I have my own choice, but it's probably because I'm a die hard fan of him. If Steve were Bruce, which, fortunately, isn't the case, Bucky would be Dick with bad luck and greyer morals, Clint would be Jason with lighter morals and better luck, Peter Parker would be Tim, the diehard average-not-so-average fan, but with superpowers, and Sam would be Damian because he's the last one and I'm running out of Cap America's ex-sidekicks. Also, Sam is a bit of a prick. Doesn't fit, but whatever.

Now, for a way less arguable/controversial/biased  choice, Kaine Parker is a fitting choice, as far as I know. He's definitely filling Jason's place in the spiderfam.

----------


## Arsenal

I wish DC had figured out where they wanted Jason to be in their universe as quickly as Marvel figured out what Bucky’s place was in theirs. 

Both TWS & UTH were great stories but only marvel really managed to capitalize on it.

----------


## Zaresh

> I wish DC had figured out where they wanted Jason to be in their universe as quickly as Marvel figured out what Buckys place was in theirs. 
> 
> Both TWS & UTH were great stories but only marvel really managed to capitalize on it.


Bucky's place in the Marvel Universe is even worse, they keep trying to do something with him but, after Brubacker, they lost direction with him. A shame really. 

I mean, even if I like him quite a lot, I'm not a big fan of Winter Soldier; but I have read a bunch of the books he appears in by chance (I like many characters he has connections with). And what I've noticed is that they don't know how to write him or even where to put him, in which stories, half the time. In my opinion, I mean.

----------


## AmiMizuno

> WB should fund House of Batman - there's a petition on change.org for House of Batman.
> I'm a little surprised (positively). I've also found House of Batman fanart on Twitter. Seems like the dismissed cartoon concept is more popular than I thought.
> 
> sumi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kookaocin
> ...



This would be interesting a show about them has brothers. Since the comics don't genenrally show them as such

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I wish DC had figured out where they wanted Jason to be in their universe as quickly as Marvel figured out what Buckys place was in theirs. 
> 
> Both TWS & UTH were great stories but only marvel really managed to capitalize on it.


I have no idea what are you talking about. Unlike Bucky has had a clear role and place within the DCU since the N52, the best proof of that is that Jason has been able to hold a title for nearly a decade in which he only had two relaunches but those relaunches: A) were line wide and b) followed the narrative of their predecessor. Bucky on the other has been bouncing from role to role and headed many short lived series and far as I know, is not relevant in the current Marvel landscape.


That said, what I've heard about the whole thing with the Penguin is that it wasn't a direction that Lobdell was really planned to but it was forced by the now discarded idea of Jason being Leviathan. The plan was using Jason taking over the Penguin's operations as a justification for Jason suddenly having enough resources to take down all the other Intelligence agencies in the DCU and lead the charge against the heroes, once him being leviathan was discarded, it was too late to change the plot and that leads to Prince of Gotham lacking a real direction or goal. 

And when you think about it, it kind of make sense. That would explain why Jason randomly attacked the organized crime in Europe for seemingly no reason and the way it was quietly shoved under the rug afterward, the bad thing Essence tried to stop him from doing was becoming Levitahan and it ties neatly with the random Leviathan cameo in issue 35, I believe?

----------


## Zaresh

Every year I find a new reason to hate (even detest, stronger word) events.

----------


## Sergard

The BTAS Red Hood figure comes with a red batarang (and a gun and a rocketlauncher). (source)

----------


## Restingvoice

...Crap. I'm starting to find those weird sleepless black under eye shadow thing attractive

In an intimidating serial killer slash rock star kinda way

I always wonder what people see in those kinda makeup

This quarantine is getting too long

----------


## Sergard

Red Hood Batman The Adventures Continue Action Figure Review

2:08 "I'm all for this look ... maybe some eyebrows would have been good. But he does look pretty cool nonetheless."

Also:

2:22: The figure has a red batlogo on the back.

----------


## Zaresh

> Red Hood Batman The Adventures Continue Action Figure Review
> 
> 2:08 "I'm all for this look ... maybe some eyebrows would have been good. But he does look pretty cool nonetheless."
> 
> Also:
> 
> 2:22: The figure has a red batlogo on the back.


He really needs those eyebrows, really. Wouldn't even make the design look less intimidating or jaded.

*Shakes her head in sadness.

The figure does look neat, nevertheless. Looks really well made.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Red Hood Batman The Adventures Continue Action Figure Review
> 
> 2:08 "I'm all for this look ... maybe some eyebrows would have been good. But he does look pretty cool nonetheless."
> 
> Also:
> 
> 2:22: The figure has a red batlogo on the back.


Looks good, and I appreciate the Red Bat logo, but man, that is some pretty poor articulation. Definitely not worth the price tag. Also I've been burned from DC Direct since all of their stuff is insanely fragile.

----------


## Sergard

> Every year I find a new reason to hate (even detest, stronger word) events.


Heroes in Crisis
Event Leviathan
Year of the Villain
Joker War

Maybe Doomsday Clock, Three Jokers and the cancelled 5G also had some kind of impact on RHatO, hard to say.

Were there always so many events going on blow on blow or am I misremembering?

For RHatO New52, there was Death of the Family.
For Red Hood/Arsenal, there was Batman Superheavy.
Were there any other events that influenced the stories?



Travis Mercer

----------


## Zaresh

> Heroes in Crisis
> Event Leviathan
> Year of the Villain
> Joker War
> 
> Maybe Doomsday Clock, Three Jokers and the cancelled 5G also had some kind of impact on RHatO, hard to say.
> 
> Were there always so many events going on blow on blow or am I misremembering?
> 
> ...


I'm an old-time marvel reader. I grew to runaway from events.

3 jokers, I wouldn't count it as an event. It's a graphic novel, more like. And self-contained. I suspect, from now on, most series are going to be like that: limited series, minis, OGN, that are planned and connected entirely before they're finished and published. Kind of like WN, too. Even the digital ongoings that the're going to probably keep and try are going to have some kind of previows planning. Just my hunch. I think, at this point, that G5 thing has been mostly scrapped.

But again, just what I feel is going to be the direction, going by the news.

Edit: my point is, I don't think any event is going to have much of an inpact in the future of the Red Hood books, however they will come after this run ends. Unless it's some kind of big crossover book, containded* by* itself, and well planned. Which I doubt is going to draw much writing talent to DC

----------


## Sergard

Personally, I'm in favor of more limited series, minis, OGN or the season style of comics like Green Lantern or Naomi.


Is Jason legally dead again? Doesn't Joker watch the news?

From Batman Secret Files (2020) #3:
(I guess the "five beneficiaries" are Dick, Jason, Tim, Damian and Barbara.)

----------


## Zaresh

Are other writers aware of Jason being declared alive in his own book? Perhaps that's the question here. I don't think they're, and editors seem to be in their holidays, or maybe buried under a lot of trouble with all the changes in their editorial corners.

----------


## Sergard

> Are other writers aware of Jason being declared alive in his own book? Perhaps that's the question here. I don't think they're, and editors seem to be in their holidays, or maybe buried under a lot of trouble with all the changes in their editorial corners.


It still makes no sense that a legally dead person is a beneficiary of the Wayne trust.
Or that Joker even tells Slade that one person is dead. Joker knows that Jason is alive. Why is he lying to Slade when Slade already knows that Batman is Bruce and Nightwing is Grayson.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Who knows what is Joker talking about, he knows all of them are alive, and going by the look Jason has here, Tynion was aware of Jason taking over the Iceberg Lounge.

----------


## Sergard

> Who knows what is Joker talking about, he knows all of them are alive, and going by the look Jason has here, Tynion was aware of Jason taking over the Iceberg Lounge.


What look do you mean?
The sunglasses are from Batman: Pennyworth R.I.P.
I think all the civil looks are from Batman: Pennyworth R.I.P.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

That book was released before Pennyworth but even so, Jason wearing fancy suits comes from Prince of Gotham, otherwise, he's always depicted wearing leather jackets.

----------


## Sergard

> That book was released before Pennyworth but even so, Jason wearing fancy suits comes from Prince of Gotham, otherwise, he's always depicted wearing leather jackets.


Isn't that panel from Batman #89? (released: February 19 2020)
Batman: Pennyworth R.I.P. was released on February 12 2020, a week prior. So Batman #89 and Batman: Pennyworth R.I.P. were pretty much drawn around the same time. Artists probably just exchanged designs. Especially since all the other clothes on the Joker panel match with the clothes in Batman: Pennyworth R.I.P., not just Jason's. The artist even got Barbara's hairstyle right.
And Jason wearing a suit in Batman: Pennyworth R.I.P. isn't necessarily an indication that the writers/artists read the Prince of Gotham story arc. It's normal to wear fancy clothes at a funeral.

----------


## redmax99

alfred was a beneficiary

----------


## Sergard

> alfred was a beneficiary


Is this a guess or fact?
It at least sounds plausible.
But if it's true then the dialogue is misleading. Alfred is definitely not one of the "baby bats".
Furthermore, Joker is targeting five people of the "batfamily" - Dick, Jason, Tim, Damian and Barbara. If Alfred is one of the five beneficiaries, then one of the targets is not a beneficiary (probably Jason, maybe Barbara). So why target this extra person in the first place when Joker's main objective is the Wayne trust?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> RED HOOD: OUTLAW #49
> 
> written by SCOTT LOBDELL
> 
> art by PAOLO PANTALENA
> 
> cover by DAN MORA
> 
> variant cover by PHILIP TAN
> ...


Oh boy.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Batman: Three Jokers #2 
> 
> Written By Geoff Johns
> 
> Art And Cover By Jason Fabok
> 
> Variant Cover By Jason Fabok
> 
> 1:25 variant cover by TBD
> ...

----------


## Zaresh

And there we go. I feel nervous somehow.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

And in industry news, Dennis O'Neil passed away last night

https://www.gamesradar.com/legendary...ies-at-age-81/

----------


## redmax99

> Is this a guess or fact?
> It at least sounds plausible.
> But if it's true then the dialogue is misleading. Alfred is definitely not one of the "baby bats".
> Furthermore, Joker is targeting five people of the "batfamily" - Dick, Jason, Tim, Damian and Barbara. If Alfred is one of the five beneficiaries, then one of the targets is not a beneficiary (probably Jason, maybe Barbara). So why target this extra person in the first place when Joker's main objective is the Wayne trust?


he wasn't just talking baby bat when he mention 5 benefeiciaries and alfred was a recipient the last time to. not to mention don't rich people update their wills every other year or so, if jason was still a benefactor on the will tim and  damian name shouldn't be on the will if they came after jason died the lawyers would have been cross him off to receive his portion. 
 the story hasn't come out yet to know the whole aspect of whose targets and whose not. all i heard are whisper and probably miss leading solicitations

----------


## Sergard

> Oh boy.


Oh boy indeed.
First I thought that they are going to sacrifice Bizarro, but maybe it's Roy again.
As far as I'm concerned, Dan Mora can stay on cover duty. He has a beautiful style.




> As Batman and Batgirl follow an unexpected thread linking the three Jokers with someone from the Dark Knight’s past, Red Hood dives headfirst into trouble and finds himself struggling to stay afloat without the aid of his allies.
> 
> Batman: Three Jokers continues its trajectory as the ultimate examination of The Joker and his never-ending conflict with Batman. Prepare yourselves for the second chapter of one of the most terrifying and personal mysteries Batman has ever faced!


I have mixed feelings about this solicitation.

----------


## Arsenal

If an outlaw does die, I highly doubt it'll be one of the dark trinity. I'd say it's either gonna be one of the New 52 Outlaws (probably New 52 Jason) or a miscellaneous ally (Essence, a member of generation: outlaw, etc.). 

As for the Winter Soldier thing, I meant that I wish we could have skipped the dark times between UTH and RHATO where Jason was essentially whatever the plot required him to be at that point in time. Bucky, while not exactly in a great spot today, didn't have nearly as many hiccups after his re-brand that Jason did. And with how popular he's become over the last 8 or so years, I really do wish those initial years weren't wasted as much as they were (Plus an additional 6 or so years of stories worth reading woulda been nice too).

----------


## Shadowcat

I’m getting into Rebirth, and this book is on my radar. Has DC re-inserted Croc into Jason’s origin?

----------


## Sergard

> Im getting into Rebirth, and this book is on my radar. Has DC re-inserted Croc into Jasons origin?


No. It's still the post-crisis origin with Jason being a street kid stealing the tyres of the batmobile (and not the pre-crisis origin with Jason being an acrobat whose parents are killed by Killer Croc).
But Killer Croc and Jason work together in Red Hood and the Outlaws #17.
Killer Croc also appears in the Red Hood and the Outlaws Annual #2 but Jason and Killer Croc don't interact.

----------


## Sergard

> If an outlaw does die, I highly doubt it'll be one of the dark trinity. I'd say it's either gonna be one of the New 52 Outlaws (probably New 52 Jason) or a miscellaneous ally (Essence, a member of generation: outlaw, etc.). 
> 
> As for the Winter Soldier thing, I meant that I wish we could have skipped the dark times between UTH and RHATO where Jason was essentially whatever the plot required him to be at that point in time. Bucky, while not exactly in a great spot today, didn't have nearly as many hiccups after his re-brand that Jason did. And with how popular he's become over the last 8 or so years, I really do wish those initial years weren't wasted as much as they were (Plus an additional 6 or so years of stories worth reading woulda been nice too).


My money is on New 52 Outlaws. I don't think that Essence is currently considered a teammate, and the kids aren't involved in the mission. They are all in New York. I'd also be sad if one of them gets killed off so shortly after their introduction. (Well, I'd be generally sad if one of them died. I like them and there is already enough death in the DC universe.)

Of course it would have been nice if all the bad post-crisis stories with Jason wouldn't exist and/or were replaced by good ones. The character was wasted for years.
At least there isn't really anything to mourn about when New52 came around and cleaned stuff up.

After reading some comments about the upcoming Three Jokers story, I'm slowly losing my little bit of optimism I had for the story. This is starting to feel like Morrison's Batman and Robin 2.0. A crappy depiction of Jason in an otherwise popular story that's going to hurt the character for years.

----------


## Zaresh

I still hold hope, though, until I get to read and be disappointed (or not). I need to believe.

----------


## E.Marie

> Im getting into Rebirth, and this book is on my radar. Has DC re-inserted Croc into Jasons origin?


Croc is, or was, more involved with Roy as his sponsor. He felt sympathy during the stage in Roy's life when he was heavily addicted. He knows about Red Hood via Roy and doesn't see him in a bad light. Likewise Jason seems to have a soft spot for him for his efforts in helping Roy recover.

As for Three Jokers, I think the creative team already confirmed that there will be more than one controversy. Over on Reddit there's been comments on how Jason healed wrong because the solicits say he's not with his allies. It's not a title I'm really looking forward to in general.

----------


## Swallowtail

> My money is on New 52 Outlaws. I don't think that Essence is currently considered a teammate, and the kids aren't involved in the mission. They are all in New York. I'd also be sad if one of them gets killed off so shortly after their introduction. (Well, I'd be generally sad if one of them died. I like them and there is already enough death in the DC universe.) .


The smart money has got  to be on losing Bizarro though, right? Killing him off has zero impact on the wider universe because hes not even Bizarro Prime. Hes a character that needs constant supervision so if the Outlaws are ending And Since Jason is not going to be able to do that anymore hes either going to have to be teleported into some inaccessible safe haven with the kids or hes going to die.

Plus it resets Jason to factory settings of sad and angry.

----------


## Korath

> The smart money has got  to be on losing Bizarro though, right? Killing him off has zero impact on the wider universe because he’s not even ‘Bizarro Prime’. He’s a character that needs constant supervision so if the Outlaws are ending And Since Jason is not going to be able to do that anymore he’s either going to have to be teleported into some inaccessible safe haven with the kids or he’s going to die.
> 
> Plus it resets Jason to factory settings of sad and angry.


I hope they won't do that. They surely will, of course, but I hope they won't. Outlaw Bizarro is such a superior character compared to Bizarro Prime...

----------


## Rise

I'm still not interested in RHATO, but I do hope Lobdell end his run in high note.

The Three Jokers is the only book I'm excited for. 




> Croc is, or was, more involved with Roy as his sponsor. He felt sympathy during the stage in Roy's life when he was heavily addicted. He knows about Red Hood via Roy and doesn't see him in a bad light. Likewise Jason seems to have a soft spot for him for his efforts in helping Roy recover.
> 
> *As for Three Jokers, I think the creative team already confirmed that there will be more than one controversy. Over on Reddit there's been comments on how Jason healed wrong because the solicits say he's not with his allies. It's not a title I'm really looking forward to in general.*


Considering his lifestyle, I don't think anyone can excatly say he was "healed right" especially when you compare him to Batgirl who suffered because of the Joker too. Still, there's no point on judging a book that haven't come out yet.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Croc is, or was, more involved with Roy as his sponsor. He felt sympathy during the stage in Roy's life when he was heavily addicted. He knows about Red Hood via Roy and doesn't see him in a bad light. Likewise Jason seems to have a soft spot for him for his efforts in helping Roy recover.
> 
> As for Three Jokers, I think the creative team already confirmed that there will be more than one controversy. Over on Reddit there's been comments on how Jason healed wrong because the solicits say he's not with his allies. It's not a title I'm really looking forward to in general.


Is there a significant difference of portrayal between Red Hood Croc and other Croc? Like he's mainly friendly and human in Red Hood, but feral in others? I only remember during Batman Eternal, while he can be hostile, he is friendly and cares more about his sewer society where he protects the downtrodden.

----------


## Sergard

> [...]
> 
> As for Three Jokers, I think the creative team already confirmed that there will be more than one controversy. Over on Reddit there's been comments on how Jason healed wrong because the solicits say he's not with his allies. It's not a title I'm really looking forward to in general.


I fear that the confirmed controversies will just make Jason look bad and everyone else look good. I know that it was obvious that Jason would be used as the one who healed wrong but I still had a tiny bit of hope that there would be some nuance to it. I generally have some strong emotions about the phrase that someone "healed wrong", especially when compared to another person who supposedly "healed right". Just the simple fact that there is some kind of comparison going on is mind-boggling. Congratulations, Barbara gets a gold star for "healing right". But that's not a reason to drag Jason through the mud (again). I don't understand why there's this constant need in DC Comics to degrade a character because they want to elevate someone else. Just write a story about how awesome Barbara is. Leave Jason out of it. Simple as that.




> [...]
> Considering his lifestyle, I don't think anyone can excatly say he was "healed right" especially when you compare him to Batgirl who suffered because of the Joker too. Still, there's no point on judging a book that haven't come out yet.


No one claims that Jason "healed right" (whatever that means) but it would be a disservice to the character to completely ignore his own recovery path and simply reduce it to he "healed wrong". I'm also heavily against the idea of comparing Jason and Barbara. Those are two completely different cases. Just because they are both victims of the Joker doesn't mean they are the same.

I'd like to be optimistic about the book but I simply can't.

----------


## Rise

You take things way, way too personally. We literally have zero knowledge about what Johns & Fabok are planning for Jason (except thar it turned Fabok into a big fan of Jason because of this book) so what's the point of you expecting the worse? If you already feel like you aren't going to enjoy it, simply don't bother with it since I have seen it before with people who hated the idea of RHATO and decided to read it just to find reasons to get angry about it because they already mind up their minds. 

Seeing so much negativity every single time Jason show up in another book is seriously getting tiring and the reason why I started avoiding this thread.

----------


## Sergard

> You take things way, way too personally. We literally have zero knowledge about what Johns & Fabok are planning for Jason (except thar it turned Fabok into a big fan of Jason because of this book) so what's the point of you expecting the worse? If you already feel like you aren't going to enjoy it, simply don't bother with it since I have seen it before with people who hated the idea of RHATO and decided to read it just to find reasons to get angry about it because they already mind up their minds. 
> 
> Seeing so much negativity every single time Jason show up in another book is seriously getting tiring and the reason why I started avoiding this thread.


I don't see what's too personal about sharing a simple opinion, even if it's a negative one (I'm not denying that), especially since the solicitation for Three Jokers #2 just came out. And all comments I've seen so far are going in the same direction. If you think that I or others are too negative, you are welcome to argue against it (That's something Zaresh does all the time when there's a negative mood in the thread). Or don't. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.  :Wink:  

I also never stated that I'm going to read the book just to find reasons to get angry. I'm still going to give Three Jokers a fair chance when it's out. But I won't give it an approval in advance. If it's good, I'll say it is good. If I don't like what I see, I'll drop the book.

----------


## Zaresh

@Serg  I'll give you some hope.

To my understanding, Johns loves these redeeming characters that are like Jason. He also like underdogs, I think, which he clearly is. And he was one of the big supporters of Jason under Lobdell in Rebirth, as far as I understand. Keep some hope, my friend. He may make him suffer, but I doubt he will make him look like a joke or the untimate jerkass. I mean, sure, he wrote that issue in TT, and he was probably one who was Ok with the idea of bringing Jason back as an antagonist or supported it. But in these days, I have the feeling his thoughts on the character have changed.

I mean, I may be wrong. But I'm going to wait and read, and be mad if I had to when the times come. I had worse fears for Unkillables and in the end it just was... meh, Jason--wise.

Edit: he he, I guess, yes, I need to fight negatively, probably because I want you guys to be bappy. I makes me happier, when you feel good, or better at least. I usually do that by hugging and logic, but... Now, here, I only can resort to this :/.

----------


## dietrich

https://www.thethings.com/dc-animate...action-movies/

UTRH possibly the best Batman movie ever made.

----------


## Sergard

> @Serg  I'll give you some hope.
> 
> [...]


You would be a good protagonist in the Danganronpa game series.  :Smile: 

Here's a cute little DC Super Hero Girls fanart with Dick and Jason (or how Jason could look like in that style. He's not part of the series):

Quic

----------


## Sergard



----------


## Restingvoice

Is there any follow up after Batman and Damian accused him in Leviathan, whether in Leviathan itself or RHATO? Or just a mention? 

He seems pretty relaxed about the whole thing after he shook them off, so my impression is he didn't really take it personally but please tell me if I miss something.

----------


## Zaresh

> Is there any follow up after Batman and Damian accused him in Leviathan, whether in Leviathan itself or RHATO? Or just a mention? 
> 
> He seems pretty relaxed about the whole thing after he shook them off, so my impression is he didn't really take it personally but please tell me if I miss something.


Not to my knowledge. Maybe if the epilogue were released. But it keeps being delayed, or so I think.

Maaaaan, writing without an actual, 100% functional E key is a nightmare.

(thanks @Sergard. It mans a lot, believe it or not, that you think that. Right now, my personal life is pretty damn sh*tty, so, at least, I can give others some sense of "good feelings")

----------


## Sergard

> Is there any follow up after Batman and Damian accused him in Leviathan, whether in Leviathan itself or RHATO? Or just a mention? 
> 
> He seems pretty relaxed about the whole thing after he shook them off, so my impression is he didn't really take it personally but please tell me if I miss something.


No, there isn't any follow-up. Not in Leviathan so far and no mentions in RHatO.
RH:O #42 is set after Event Leviathan, and here Jason mentions his "four brothers". It's hard to imagine that Lobdell wasn't aware of what happened in Event Leviathan.
So I agree, I don't think Jason took it too personally. Although he seemed a little disappointed in Event Leviathan #2. After being accused of being Leviathan, he's actually addressing everybody and they are allowed to state their opinion, which is in every case basically a guilty verdict.

----------


## Sergard

> Is there a significant difference of portrayal between Red Hood Croc and other Croc? Like he's mainly friendly and human in Red Hood, but feral in others? I only remember during Batman Eternal, while he can be hostile, he is friendly and cares more about his sewer society where he protects the downtrodden.


I don't know enough about Killer Croc to answer the question for sure but it's definitely not just RHatO where Killer Croc is portrayed as a friendly person.

From Gotham City Monsters #3:



Killer Croc will also be in Detective Comics #1026, not sure how to interpret the solicitation.




> DETECTIVE COMICS #1026
> 
> As The Joker War rages on, the casualties are mounting, and the underground residents of Gotham City must deal with the devastating effects of the Joker toxin thats been pumped into the old citys tunnel system. Batman must risk everything to guide them to safety, but a familiar face has mobilized these forgotten souls to rise up in anger...and Killer Croc takes no prisoners!

----------


## Sergard

Dexter Soy has posted two RHatO sketches. The characters are in their Rebirth design. Are those old panels?


Dexter Soy





Dexter Soy

----------


## Restingvoice

> Killer Croc will also be in Detective Comics #1026, not sure how to interpret the solicitation.


That sounds reasonable. Killer Croc's priority usually is his people. He's very territorial and protective including against Batman or Catwoman if they cross his line and it makes sense for him to snap if people above keep bothering them because they already are victims fleeing a bad life upside.

----------


## Sergard

> [...]
> 
> (thanks @Sergard. It mans a lot, believe it or not, that you think that. Right now, my personal life is pretty damn sh*tty, so, at least, I can give others some sense of "good feelings")


I'm sorry to hear that, friend.  :Frown:  I hope life will be getting better for you soon.






> That sounds reasonable. Killer Croc's priority usually is his people. He's very territorial and protective including against Batman or Catwoman if they cross his line and it makes sense for him to snap if people above keep bothering them because they already are victims fleeing a bad life upside.



I'm in favor of Killer Croc as anti-hero. Just another reason why I'm glad that Jason's origin was completely changed in post-crisis. If pre-crisis had continued, there would probably have been some eternal conflict between Jason and Killer Croc. And I'm not a fan of the "murderer of my parents is my archenemy" trope. Well, I'm generally not a fan of the "my parents were murdered" trope. DC has kind of overused it.


On a different note, do you guys think that there's still a chance for an RHatO annual this year?

----------


## Zaresh

> On a different note, do you guys think that there's still a chance for an RHatO annual this year?


Hmmm, I'm not counting with that annual, to be honest. But I kind of feel lime we could have a mini soon after this next year starts.

(Thanks, @Serg. I really hope things get better. For my own sake and my family's sake)

----------


## Sergard

> Hmmm, I'm not counting with that annual, to be honest. But I kind of feel lime we could have a mini soon after this next year starts.
> 
> (Thanks, @Serg. I really hope things get better. For my own sake and my family's sake)


What would the mini be about? (I'm generally in favor of more minis from DC. It's not just a chance for characters who can't hold their own on-going but also for artists and writers.)

I'm curious what will happen after Synder's Metal stuff is over. (I read Death Metal #1 yesterday, and I quite enjoyed it.)

Ricardo Silva



It's funny how many people are unsettled by BTAS Jason without eyebrows.

sdimo (I like the style, it reminds me of the Professor Layton games.)

_"okay he has eyebrows"_

----------


## Zaresh

> What would the mini be about? (I'm generally in favor of more minis from DC. It's not just a chance for characters who can't hold their own on-going but also for artists and writers.)
> 
> I'm curious what will happen after Synder's Metal stuff is over. (I read Death Metal #1 yesterday, and I quite enjoyed it.)
> 
> Ricardo Silva
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny how many people are unsettled by BTAS Jason without eyebrows.
> ...


Mmmm... Probably* some small case dealing with some street level problem is my guess. That, if the writer* is a newcomer. If not, maybe something a bit more ambitious dealing with something more mythical or cosmic oriented, I guess. I like mijis and limited series. It works pretty well for my Moony, it can work fine for certain characters

I noticed yesteeday that the team behind Sex Criminals are having a part in Tec 1027. I know Dick, for example, is probably  way more up their alley; but, well, wouldn't it be fun it they were to write for Jason? Even if Chip really cannot because some exclusivity with Marvel, he could still exchange his ideas with Matt. I doubt they are going to do anything, so, welp. But dream's free and stuff.

I wonder if that issue can give some ideas of where they want the bat-franchise to go from now on.

----------


## AmiMizuno

I'm curious do you guys think Jason should ever be a red hair again.

----------


## Sergard

> Mmmm... Pronably some small case dealing with some street level problem is my guess. That, if the writter is a newcomer. If not, maybe something a bit more ambitious dealing with something more mythical or cosmic oriented, I guess. I like mijis and limited series. It works pretty well for my Moony, it can work fine for certain characters
> 
> I noticed yesteeday that the team behind Sex Criminals are having a part in Tec 1027. I know Dick, for example, is probably  way more up their alley; but, well, wouldn't it be fun it they were to write for Jason? Even if Chip really cannot because some exclusivity with Marvel, he could still exchange his ideas with Matt. I doubt they are going to do anything, so, welp. But dream's free and stuff.
> 
> *I wonder if that issue can give some ideas of where they want the bat-franchise to go from now on.*



I think we'll get at least some glimpses.

DC Announces Massive Talent Lineup for Oversized Detective Comics #1027




> "Detective #1027 has been a massive undertaking, and I’m really excited for fans to see what editors Paul Kaminski and Dave Wielgosz have in store come September," Batman group editor Ben Abernathy said in a statement. "A great combination of writers and artists are putting in their best work on the book and fans should pay close attention to these stories, *since some of them will plant the seeds for both Batman’s future and that of the DC universe.*"


But I guess it will be more focused on literally Batman's future and not particular on the future of the batfamily, although the future of the batfamily is of course influenced by Batman's future.




> I'm curious do you guys think Jason should ever be a red hair again.


No, those were bad times and made zero sense. But DC is welcome to change Dick's hair color with the next story arc and claim that red is his natural hair color. It's as nonsensical as Jason or anyone else for that matter.

----------


## Zaresh

Blond Jason from the scrapped pre-COIE universe, though, that has potential. Imagine: redhaired evil Jason who usurped post-Crisis Jason after Countdown vs Post-Crisis/New52 Jason vs Blond pre-Crisis Jason who was luckier overall as Robin but turned out to be awful luck as an adult and got stuck in a dying universe.

Just an idea for a storyline.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I'm curious do you guys think Jason should ever be a red hair again.


Hell no.




> Blond Jason from the scrapped pre-COIE universe, though, that has potential. Imagine: redhaired evil Jason who usurped post-Crisis Jason after Countdown vs Post-Crisis/New52 Jason vs Blond pre-Crisis Jason who was luckier overall as Robin but turned out to be awful luck as an adult and got stuck in a dying universe.
> 
> Just an idea for a storyline.


I believe Lobdell did consider a similar idea at some point.

----------


## Zaresh

> I believe Lobdell did consider a similar idea at some point.


Oh, it's a cool idea (for me) I would've loved to read.

----------


## Sergard

Zack Snyder Reveals Which Robin the DCEU Joker Killed

Recently Zack Snyder confirmed that the dead Robin in the movies is Dick Grayson (and not Jason Todd). I feel like this is old news but maybe I'm misremembering something since Snyder had to confirm it a few days ago. Some fans really seem to be upset about that. But I don't think Nightwing and/or Red Hood had ever a chance to appear in Snyder's movie universe. It seems like he just needed a dead child to explain Bruce' personality.

----------


## Zaresh

> Zack Snyder Reveals Which Robin the DCEU Joker Killed
> 
> Recently Zack Snyder confirmed that the dead Robin in the movies is Dick Grayson (and not Jason Todd). I feel like this is old news but maybe I'm misremembering something since Snyder had to confirm it a few days ago. Some fans really seem to be upset about that. But I don't think Nightwing and/or Red Hood had ever a chance to appear in Snyder's movie universe. It seems like he just needed a dead child to explain Bruce' personality.


I think the same.

I would've said that he just didn't know who was the Robin who died, or that even Jason exists. But as far as I know, the guy is a comic reader; so I guess he just used Robin for building Batfleck, and now it doesn't make much sense overcomplicating a universe with more Robins now that is pretty much a dead verse. So Dick it is.

----------


## AmiMizuno

He didn't really need to add a Robin. There served no purpose

----------


## Arsenal

It was more of an Easter egg than anything else.

----------


## Restingvoice

> I think the same.
> 
> I would've said that he just didn't know who was the Robin who died, or that even Jason exists. But as far as I know, the guy is a comic reader; so I guess he just used Robin for building Batfleck, and now it doesn't make much sense overcomplicating a universe with more Robins now that is pretty much a dead verse. So Dick it is.


He knows. The rumor started before even BvS came out and people were already taking a screenshot from the trailer showing Dick's tombstone, but the image was blurry, but then Suicide Squad's document of Harley mentioned Jason by name. At this point, DC/WB's already planning to make more movies than Snyder's original vision. 

I don' t remember if they're already thinking about the Nightwing movie, but it makes sense, either way, to keep things closer to comics, so DC/WB changed it to Jason.

I guess since the original Snyder vision is limited to Justice League he doesn't feel the need to portray the sidekicks.

----------


## Rise

Snyder confirmed it a long ago and his reasoning was that he believes that_ Batman wouldn't be that upest_ over Jason's death like he would be over Dick's.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Snyder confirmed it a long ago and his reasoning was that he believes that_ Batman wouldn't be that upest_ over Jason's death like he would be over Dick's.


Oh no 

wrong thread wrong thread XD

----------


## Zaresh

> Oh no 
> 
> wrong thread wrong thread XD


Meh, it's just Snyder's opinion, not law. We don't have to agree with his xD, everything's fine.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Snyder confirmed it a long ago and his reasoning was that he believes that_ Batman wouldn't be that upest_ over Jason's death like he would be over Dick's.


hahaha. That's a quite funny joke. I'm impressed, Synder.

----------


## Sergard

> Snyder confirmed it a long ago and his reasoning was that he believes that_ Batman wouldn't be that upest_ over Jason's death like he would be over Dick's.


Ouch.



On a different note, each Three Jokers issue will ship with a collectible playing card (source).




> In celebration of the highly anticipated Batman: The Three Jokers prestige miniseries, DC and participating comic book stores are dealing fans the ultimate wild card by offering a free with purchase souvenir playing card for each of the three issues of the series, while supplies last.
> 
> Featuring breathtaking new artwork by series artist Jason Fabok, each issue of the Geoff Johns-penned series will feature a different card, spotlighting the Clown Prince of Crime and his three major adversaries  Batman, Batgirl and Jason Todd.
> 
> Batman: The Three Jokers reexamines the myth of who, or what The Joker is, and whats at the heart of not just his eternal struggle with Batman, but how his horrific treatment of Barbara Gordon and Jason Todd has affected them. Arriving at open and operating comic book stores on Tuesday, August 25, the series will carry DCs Black Label content descriptor, identifying the series a appropriate for readers 17+.

----------


## Jackalope89

So, latest issue of Batman: The Adventure Continues dropped.

*spoilers:*
And Jason gave Babs the info she needed in order to to help Bruce against Slade. By doing so, he tipped his hand that he knows their civilian identities, but his larger plans still remain a mystery.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Zaresh

> So, latest issue of Batman: The Adventure Continues dropped.
> 
> *spoilers:*
> And Jason gave Babs the info she needed in order to to help Bruce against Slade. By doing so, he tipped his hand that he knows their civilian identities, but his larger plans still remain a mystery.
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
It's funny that he used books and the library, out of all the things he could've used for tipping them. I guess the writers are supporting that book nerdism for Jason as some kind of link to Babs. I wonder if we will see other traits fans usually give Jason, like the cooking, for connecting him to Alfred, for example.

Surprisingly, this book is felling like it does revolve around Jason, even if it's very slow burning. He seems to be the central mystery and seems to appear somehow, in every case they're dealing even when he doesn't have a hand on those plots. I'm intrigued by how it is possible that they don't seem to consider Jason as the suspect for this mystery man.

Nexr time in "Trouble for the Batfam": Azrael.

*end of spoilers*

I'm probably not won by the art, but given how fast this is being published, I'm not going to complain. It's easy to read, and the writing is fine. Feels like an episode or a movie from some cartoon aimed to teens, and I'm perfectly fine with it.

----------


## godisawesome

> Snyder confirmed it a long ago and his reasoning was that he believes that_ Batman wouldn't be that upest_ over Jason's death like he would be over Dick's.


I’d call bull on that, on the basis that the final film itself (even the extended edition) never really does anything more than have Bruce look at the suit one single time.

I think Snyder more likely just had a similar rejection of the Robin idea to Christopher Nolan’s rejection of it... except that whereas Nolan preferred to ignore it and then eventually introduce a *very* rough interpretation of it in TDKR, Snyder wanted to introduce it just so he could kill it and discard it permanently, similar to his approach to Jimmy Olsen.

Which, any way you look at it, is rather wasteful. Even though I’m a fan of having 3+ Robins with my Batman, even keeping _just_ Dick and Jason affords you Nightwing and possibly Red Hood as well as a potential for Batman to have lost two sons to his lifestyle, one via death and another via estrangement.

It also kind of leaves the DCEU idea of having Deathstroke as Batfleck’s enemy a little bit underwhelming, since you couldn’t do anything Robin-related with him, whether it would be to have him and Dick with a previously established rivalry, or to fuse the Teen Titans cartoon idea with Geoff Johns’s plan for Red Hood, where Deathstroke trained Jason after he “died.”

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

The death of Dick is what pushed Batfleck over the edge, so we're seeing the aftermath of that, the suit is just the clue that bind the idea together. And Zack wanted to bring Carrie instead.

----------


## dietrich

> He didn't really need to add a Robin. There served no purpose


I believe Carrie was going to feature. She might have even been cast

----------


## Sergard

> *spoilers:*
> It's funny that he used books and the library, out of all the things he could've used for tipping them. I guess the writers are supporting that book nerdism for Jason as some kind of link to Babs. I wonder if we will see other traits fans usually give Jason, like the cooking, for connecting him to Alfred, for example.
> 
> Surprisingly, this book is felling like it does revolve around Jason, even if it's very slow burning. He seems to be the central mystery and seems to appear somehow, in every case they're dealing even when he doesn't have a hand on those plots. I'm intrigued by how it is possible that they don't seem to consider Jason as the suspect for this mystery man.
> 
> Nexr time in "Trouble for the Batfam": Azrael.
> 
> *end of spoilers*
> 
> I'm probably not won by the art, but given how fast this is being published, I'm not going to complain. It's easy to read, and the writing is fine. Feels like an episode or a movie from some cartoon aimed to teens, and I'm perfectly fine with it.


Like the last issue, I also enjoyed this one. Although Jason's eyebrows are gone again.  :Wink: 

*spoilers:*
I liked the library scene. Jason and books will always be my jam. I liked the conclusion that Jason used "Historical Society" to hint at the location of Deathstroke and Batman. But it also makes me think that it's maybe a hidden hint for something else. We once theorized that this Jason could be from a different earth - and if so, it would only be logical for him to read something like "Historical Society" to gain some understanding of this new earth.

Jason sitting on a gargoyle is also a nice detail. Considering that Azrael is announced next, the mystery around Jason will probably stay a mystery for a little longer.
I wonder if Azrael will be a complete new story plot - or just the next antagonist hired by Lex Luthor because Slade failed.

I hope Sunny we'll have more appearances. We still don't know the reason why she works for Slade.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Zaresh

> Like the last issue, I also enjoyed this one. Although Jason's eyebrows are gone again. 
> 
> *spoilers:*
> I liked the library scene. Jason and books will always be my jam. I liked the conclusion that Jason used "Historical Society" to hint at the location of Deathstroke and Batman. But it also makes me think that it's maybe a hidden hint for something else. We once theorized that this Jason could be from a different earth - and if so, it would only be logical for him to read something like "Historical Society" to gain some understanding of this new earth.
> 
> Jason sitting on a gargoyle is also a nice detail. Considering that Azrael is announced next, the mystery around Jason will probably stay a mystery for a little longer.
> I wonder if Azrael will be a complete new story plot - or just the next antagonist hired by Lex Luthor because Slade failed.
> 
> I hope Sunny we'll have more appearances. We still don't know the reason why she works for Slade.
> *end of spoilers*


I'm guessing she's some kind of stand for Terra, but less controversial. Or even Rose. But I honestly can't think of a reason for making a placeholder for Rose here.

----------


## Sergard

> I'm guessing she's some kind of stand for Terra, but less controversial. Or even Rose. But I honestly can't think of a reason for making a placeholder for Rose here.


Maybe they didn't want to give Deathstroke too much backstory so early with introducing Rose.
Or they want to write a Deathstroke without any family. But I do wonder if Deathstroke will have another appearance in this run.
Not to mention that Sunny got pretty badly beaten up in this story with Slade not caring the least. This would have been a little awkward if the beaten up girl had been his daughter, in my opinion.

Paul Harding has shared some photos of the BTAS Red Hood figure.

"_Our Batman: The Adventures Continue Red Hood is out! Designed by @tytempleton
 and sculpted by me. Since my samples are quarantined at DC check out these pics from robdtoys._"

----------


## Korath

I really dig their approach for Jason.He's not a psycho killer or something, and he's not part of the Batfamily either. So far, he's got a really good groove and I hope the main book will take a page from it when RHatO will end (sadly T-T) and keep him as far away from the rest of the family as possible but having him help them in indirect ways like that.

----------


## Zaresh

How's doing The Adventure Continues, btw? Does anyone know? Being a digital comic, I expect it to fare so-so, but I don't really know how much that is, or if it's selling better or worse than expected (I doubt it's doing as good as Injustice, but...).

----------


## Sergard

> [...]
> 
> I'm probably not won by the art, but given how fast this is being published, I'm not going to complain. It's easy to read, and the writing is fine. Feels like an episode or a movie from some cartoon aimed to teens, and I'm perfectly fine with it.


A little off-topic, but I've found an example how a page looks like penciled, inked and colored. 


On-topic again: This is how the finalized version of the RH:O #46 cover looks like.
That's the issue for which Travis Mercer is one of the pencilers alongside Paolo Pantalena.





And some background information about the Three Jokers playing cards:

Jason Fabok

_"Inks for the #Batman : Three Jokers Book 1 playing card.  Based off of the card on the back cover of Killing Joke."_

----------


## AJpyro

> A little off-topic, but I've found an example how a page looks like penciled, inked and colored. 
> 
> 
> On-topic again: This is how the finalized version of the RH:O #46 cover looks like.
> That's the issue for which Travis Mercer is one of the pencilers alongside Paolo Pantalena.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Das some nice art mane. I especially like the playing card. Has DC ever made their own style of cards like this?

----------


## Sergard

The previews of all DC comics on sale June 23 are out: source (including RH:O #46)

----------


## Jackalope89

> How's doing The Adventure Continues, btw? Does anyone know? Being a digital comic, I expect it to fare so-so, but I don't really know how much that is, or if it's selling better or worse than expected (I doubt it's doing as good as Injustice, but...).


It being related to the DCAU should help. And I already know a number of youtubers that did things on the DCAU are probably tearing their hair out with Jason now in the picture.

Still, really looking forward to seeing Jason's plan going forward. And kind of annoys me that the big wigs way back when wouldn't let them use Jason in BTAS.

----------


## Zaresh

> It being related to the DCAU should help. And I already know a number of youtubers that did things on the DCAU are probably tearing their hair out with Jason now in the picture.
> 
> Still, really looking forward to seeing Jason's plan going forward. And kind of annoys me that the big wigs way back when wouldn't let them use Jason in BTAS.


It doesn't annoy me much, because, well, what they did with Tim was interesting. And it adds a layer here, how they can play it in a different way from the usual. AND it kind of gives me hope that they understand the characters the same way I do.

----------


## Jackalope89

> It doesn't annoy me much, because, well, what they did with Tim was interesting. And it adds a layer here, how they can play it in a different way from the usual. AND it kind of gives me hope that they understand the characters the same way I do.


Well, they kind of made Tim into Jason. Background, family, etc. But they had to call him "Tim" instead of Jason.

----------


## Sergard

> It being related to the DCAU should help. And I already know a number of youtubers that did things on the DCAU are probably tearing their hair out with Jason now in the picture.
> 
> Still, really looking forward to seeing Jason's plan going forward. And kind of annoys me that the big wigs way back when wouldn't let them use Jason in BTAS.



I like the reviews by "Watchtower Database" since they are full of background information combined with a good sense of humor. Regarding chapter 5, the reviewer even noticed that Jason has finally eyebrows and immediately turned Jason's face into a discord emoji. That was hilarious. I wonder if he'll say something in the chapter 6 review about Jason's eyebrows being gone again.









> It doesn't annoy me much, because, well, what they did with Tim was interesting. And it adds a layer here, how they can play it in a different way from the usual. AND it kind of gives me hope that they understand the characters the same way I do.


On a positive note, thanks to Tim being Robin, we got adult Jason as Red Hood.

At this point, I'm very hopeful that Jason is "on the good side". If they had wanted Jason to be the "big villain" for that series, then - in my opinion - they would have sculpted the BTAS Red Hood figure differently and would  have made him literally bigger. Just look at the size difference between Batman and Red Hood (source). That looks more like an allurement to a father-son-connection than a clash between a hero and a villain. Azrael's physic on the other hand looks intimidating. Although the broad shoulders combined with the skinny legs still look weird, same for Batman and Deathstroke. I'm still surprised how balanced Red Hood's body looks.



And just for fun, here's a comparison between the new Red Hood figure and the rest of the BTAS batfamily (source).

----------


## Zaresh

> Das some nice art mane. I especially like the playing card. Has DC ever made their own style of cards like this?


Sorry I skipped this post :/.

No, as far as I know. But I think there're some fanmade decks out there? I think there were a few, or the idea of making them.

There's also a storytelling batman themed dice game out there, btw.

----------


## Sergard

Yesterday I found a teaser trailer for a fan-made Red Hood mini-series called _Red Hood - No One's Son_ by Joseph Payne. It's supposed to premier this fall and looks like an adaptation of the BUtH story arc.


Season 3 of the _Red Hood Fan Series_ is supposed to start soon although a definite date for the first episode hasn't been announced yet.


Last but not least, I once had the fan-series _Gotham Knights_ on my radar but until now I hadn't noticed that episode 2 and 3 have been out for a while. I wasn't that impressed by the first episode, but episode 2 was already better and episode 3 has some nice moments I really enjoyed. The actors definitely have fun with their characters.

----------


## Zaresh

I was wondering.

What if the one who dies in the end is Jason, and they're planing a divine comedy-like book for him? Not exactly killing him, but puting him in a condition that would make it possible for him to cross heaven and hell and purgatory or limbo, finding characters and maybe rescuing them. Bonus points for classic literature nods and maybe some cosmic themes to the dcu too. It's a storyline more in the line of what you can read in Hellblazer, I know. And it's been used in plenty of works. Not very original. But it could still do for a good read, and would kill a few birds with the same stone.

----------


## Sergard

> I was wondering.
> 
> What if the one who dies in the end is Jason, and they're planing a divine comedy-like book for him? Not exactly killing him, but *putting him in a condition that would make it possible for him to cross heaven and hell and purgatory or limbo, finding characters and maybe rescuing them. Bonus points for classic literature nods* and maybe some cosmic themes to the dcu too. It's a storyline more in the line of what you can read in Hellblazer, I know. And it's been used in plenty of works. Not very original. But it could still do for a good read, and would kill a few birds with the same stone.


I'd read that. There are surely a lot of characters that were ditched in the past but would be good candidates for a revival.
Not sure if there's actually something like a "Heaven" in the DC universe.


There's a new Hush figure coming out (by MAFEX).




> Product Description
> 
> Based on the Batman: Hush story line, the MAFEX Hush is a highly detailed, fully articulated figure. Hush features a trench coat and several accessories including 3 interchangeable head sculpts.
> 
> 
> Product Features
> 
>     6.3 inches (16cm)
>     Made of plastic
> ...

----------


## K7P5V

Awesome! One of my all-time favorite scenes from Loeb's _Batman: Hush_ (too bad it was revealed to be a total fake-out in the next issue  :Frown: ):

----------


## Jackalope89

> I'd read that. There are surely a lot of characters that were ditched in the past but would be good candidates for a revival.
> *Not sure if there's actually something like a "Heaven" in the DC universe.*


Oh, there is. There's also Lucifer Morningstar, Michael Demiurgos, Hell, etc. Including God/the Presence.

For example, Lobo was banned from the afterlife because Hell couldn't handle him and Heaven didn't want him.

----------


## Zaresh

@Sergard, give it a try to the old vertigo-verse of DC. It's very enjoyable  :Cool: . Edit: I think I already recommended it once before? XD Sorry it that's the case.

Figure is pretty cool, btw. I'm not a big fan of Lee''s design, but I can appreciate how pulpy it's always felt. Also, trench coats are cool.

----------


## Ssstammerer

Damn, another Jason Todd milestone and I'm two days late (from where I'm from). Happy 5th year anniversary to Batman: Arkham Knight.

#JasonToddPH #ArkhamKnight

----------


## Sergard

> Awesome! One of my all-time favorite scenes from Loeb's _Batman: Hush_ (too bad it was revealed to be a total fake-out in the next issue ):


Thanks for sharing that page. It's impressive how close the figure is to the original. Even the position of the white streak is right.




> Oh, there is. There's also Lucifer Morningstar, Michael Demiurgos, Hell, etc. Including God/the Presence.
> 
> For example, Lobo was banned from the afterlife because Hell couldn't handle him and Heaven didn't want him.


I was aware that Lucifer, Michael, Hell and the Presence exist but I didn't know that there's a place like Heaven where souls can transition to. Good to know. Thanks.
When did this Lobo story take place? (sorry for being off-topic)






> @Sergard, give it a try to the old vertigo-verse of DC. It's very enjoyable . Edit: I think I already recommended it once before? XD Sorry it that's the case.
> 
> Figure is pretty cool, btw. I'm not a big fan of Lee''s design, but I can appreciate how pulpy it's always felt. Also, trench coats are cool.


I definitely want to dive into the old vertigo-verse one day when time allows it. I don't think one can recommend the vertigo-verse too much.




> Damn, another Jason Todd milestone and I'm two days late (from where I'm from). Happy 5th year anniversary to Batman: Arkham Knight.
> 
> #JasonToddPH #ArkhamKnight


Cool collection.
5 years already.
Which means that I've been reading DC for 5 years. Well, there have been some ups and downs in that time.

----------


## Jackalope89

Underworld Unleashed, I believe. Lobo and Neron go at it in the afterlife. By the end of it, Lobo literally gets a certificate stating he is not allowed to die.

----------


## Aahz

Next weeks issue of Gotham Nights is going to have to Red Hood Stories.  :Cool: 

https://www.dccomics.com/comics/batm...tham-nights-11

----------


## Sergard

TITANS: TITANS TOGETHER #1 is digitally available for $ 0.99.




> When one of Raven’s college professors goes missing, Nightwing is convinced the Titans should investigate. But the danger they uncover is far greater than one missing person—the fate of humanity is at stake, and only Beast Boy can save the day!

----------


## Sergard



----------


## Wingin' It

"I'll make you wish you were dead even more than I do."  That is so edgy oh my god.

----------


## Sergard

Jason Fabok

_"#Batman: Three Jokers will be getting some Premium Variants drawn by myself with colors by @bdanderson13
The idea here is to highlight some of the many looks from the Joker through history.  I've made a nice handy checklist to help you COLLECT THEM ALL! Out Aug 25, 2020!"_

----------


## Sergard



----------


## K. Jones

Edgelordddd.

Nice to see a current depiction team-up of the New Teen Titans with Jason back in the mix where it seems like his more recent friendship with Kory is in play.

----------


## K. Jones

> 


These are beautiful. I'm really digging Fabok's Joker. It has a lot going on but does a few things extremely well. For starters he feels consistent - while there's a few flourishes to depict Joker "how he's been depicted" by other artists, Fabok's Joker still feels like the same guy over and over again, in the same universe with the same body type and bone structure and generally the same dentistry and wavy hair and jaggy Michael Keaton-esque eyebrows. I swear I haven't seen that level of Joker art anatomical consistency since like ... Jim Aparo maybe? Since the Bronze Age house style at DC starting phasing out in the late 80s and early 90s.

But there's other things, too about this Joker depiction I really love. He's drawn a really specific tight balance between anatomical realism for Joker's bone structure and jawline with his rightly so exaggerated, cartoonish proportions for his mouth and the fact that he's got big teeth. In the 1970s even as Neal Adams and Jim Aparo really cranked out that ultra-consistent Joker design while hew as reinvented to be killer, they definitely extended the jaw to a certain extreme that even the less slick Silver Age and Golden Age artists didn't do. Golden Age Joker looks totally anatomically realistic, if not rendered a bit simply. So yeah, I really dig that Fabok's Joker feels modern and classic at the same time.

Which is why I think that Golden Age Joker behind bars "I hold the winning card"/"bottom of the deck" cover is probably my favorite so far.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> 


Remember when Fabok said Three Jokers wouldn't have incentive variant covers because they wanted the story to stand on its own? Me neither. 

That Titans take on Jason isn't half bad but yeah, they're trying too hard to make him sound like a badass. I hope they tone it down. And I don't even know what Gotham Knights is.

EDIT: Ok, I read Titans Together. 

It is a weird beast. The main plot is nothing out of the ordinary and kind of reads as if were an episode of an animated show, in some ways, very reminiscent to the Young Justice comics based on the show. The weirdest thing is that Jason out of the costume comes off more like a snarkier Tim than as himself while in costume is the tryhard badass that we saw on those preview pages.

----------


## Sergard

A little off-topic but Robin Jason is on the cover: Return to Sean Murphy's Batman: White Knight with Harley Quinn spin-off this October






> DC plans a return to the universe of Sean Murphy's Batman: White Knight in a new Harley Quinn spin-off series launching this October. Murphy will co-write the series with his wife, Katana Collins, with artist Matteo Scalera and colorist Dave Stewart rounding out the core creative team.
> 
> [...]
> 
> "Introducing the first spinoff series in Sean Murphy's White Knight universe! Two years have passed since Azrael wiped out Gotham's most formidable villains in Batman: Curse of the White Knight," reads the solicit. "The Joker is dead, Bruce Wayne is behind bars, and Gotham is still only beginning to redefine itself in a world without Batman."
> [...]
> 
> "In the wake of it all, Harley Quinn is officially off-duty, struggling to cope with the loss of her closest confidants as she improvises her lonely and hectic new life as a single mother to the late Jack Napier's twins," the text continues. "Against this unstable new 'normal,' the stage is set for Gotham's next criminal uprising. From the shadows, a visionary and elusive mastermind called the Producer is seizing this opportunity to assemble a colorful crew of villains and make his mark on the city."
> 
> ...

----------


## Zaresh

That spin off sounds like something I would pleasantly read. Yeah, this Murphyverse is growing on me with each new book.

This Titan's story sounds... I agree, kind of teenage-oriented. Writing isn't subtle, eh. But, ok, and fair I guess. Weren't these books a move for catching new readers in that demographic range, teenagers? As far as it's fun, because I'm guessing it's all it wants to be, it's an alright read (and it has been fun).

I'm looking forward to that Gotham Knights story. I love detective casebooks, and it seems to be sort of, kind of, a story withing that genre.

----------


## Aahz

> TITANS: TITANS TOGETHER #1 is digitally available for $ 0.99.


Not a particularly good take on Jason imo.

----------


## Sergard

The atmosphere in Titans: Titans Together reminds me a little bit of the Scooby-Doo cartoon. Which is not a particularly bad thing. I liked Scooby-Doo as a kid.
The story is nothing big, but it is light (not counting the dead person) and fun - and fine for what it is. 

Titans: Titans Together #2 will be out on July 2.




> Master mercenary Deathstroke needs the TitansÂ help. His daughter, Ravager, was infiltrating the demonic Church of Blood when she succumbed to the hypnotic power of its leader, Brother Blood. Red Hood believes that the plea is real...but is Deathstroke telling them the whole story?

----------


## Zaresh

> Not a particularly good take on Jason imo.


It's sort of child-like, but the whole issue is tinted with some child-esque dye, imho. Look at Starfire, being this one-note fierce warrior; or Dick being mister Gary MacGood. Eh, it's very cartoon-like, but it's what is mean to be, I think. Easy to read and follow, simple in plot and characterizations, lighthearted and fast-paced. I'm counting in Rose being a little mad and crazy, and Slade being this very bad, very manipulative villanious villain, but I may be wrong; will see.

----------


## Sergard

Karl Mostert

Unkillables Jason Todd concept art






Interview with Batman writer James Tynion IV and Batman group editor Ben Abernathy




> [...]
> While the main Joker War storyline will be chronicled in Batman #95-100, many of DC's other Batman-adjacent titles will be taking part in the crossover, most notably Detective Comics and Nightwing. DC will also be publishing an anthology special called Batman: Joker War Zone that spotlights other important players.
> 
> Abernathy explained, "While the Joker War core story is in Batman, there's a lot of important beats that will be taking place in the other titles... with Nightwing and Batgirl, and some big things happening in Detective Comics, *Red Hood #48 in particular as well*, so they are looking at Joker War from the different perspective of the different characters, and where they are this year, and how will the events of the last years have put them on different paths."
> 
> Readers may be wondering how Joker War connects to other major Batman projects in 2020, like the recently launched Dark Nights: Death Metal, the limited series Batman: Three Jokers, and the indefinitely delayed Batman/Catwoman series from Tom King and Clay Mann. The short answer is that each project is telling its own story."
> 
> Abernathy said, "The Joker War is a specific mainline Batman event. What Jason and Geoff are doing in Three Jokers is its own thing, what Tom and Clay are doing in Batman/Catwoman, their own thing, what Scott and Greg with Death Metal... I mean, it's amazing for readers to have such amazing content, but none of them connect to the Joker War puzzle at all, this is our story, this is the main Batman story, and as a fan, I'm looking forward to reading all the other titles for sure, and be sure to check out Death Metal, because that first issue was bonkers fun."
> 
> ...



And a little off-topic but for people who enjoy Geoff Johns and Jason Fabok working together: There'll be more.

On Twitter:

Question: "_Man, you and Johns are tight. Are there any other writers you'd like to work with, like KSD or Snyder for example?_"

Jason Fabok: "_Maybe.  But Geoff "gets" me.  He's so open to every idea, however lame or crazy they are.  And we have big plans for our future that has already started.  If I could work with him from now until the end of my career, I would_"

Two hours later:

Question: "_so pumped for 3 Jokers! Any other projects in the works?_"

Jason Fabok: "_2 more plus a few rough ideas.  We've been using this shutdown wisely and preparing for the future._"

----------


## Zaresh

You know, I don't know why, but I feel like they're giving Jason a lot of screen time these days. It feels... weird; not good, not bad either, but weird. I was betting on the tie-in being plain incidental, but maybe it's not and the whole thing sets the future of his story in the current DCU. With him having some future book or something.

I'm not complaining, but it feels weird.

----------


## Swallowtail

> You know, I don't know why, but I feel like they're giving Jason a lot of screen time these days. It feels... weird; not good, not bad either, but weird. I was betting on the tie-in being plain incidental, but maybe it's not and the whole thing sets the future of his story in the current DCU. With him having some future book or something.
> 
> I'm not complaining, but it feels weird.


Not weird. He is super popular and has enjoyed a significant expansion into other media in the past 18 months, raising his profile further. Under the Red hood must be the most retold bat story of the 21st century at this stage.

----------


## Sergard

> Next weeks issue of Gotham Nights is going to have to Red Hood Stories. 
> 
> https://www.dccomics.com/comics/batm...tham-nights-11






> Story 1 - A face from Red Hood's past needs his help when he's targeted by Codename: Assassin--he just doesn't know it yet! Story 2 - The clock counts down as a prisoner on death row awaits his sentence...but Nightwing and Red Hood believe there's more to his case than meets the eye, and now they have one night to prove it!


Reunion by Steve Orlando, Priscilla Petraites, Romulo Fajardo Jr. and Ryan Christy
One Minute After Midnight by Marc Guggenheim, Robert Gill, Luis Guerrero and Marshall Dillon


Digital release date: June 30 2020




Preview: source

[IMG]https://***********/aiptcomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/batman-gotham-nights_111.jpg[/IMG]

----------


## Sergard

[IMG]https://***********/aiptcomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/batman-gotham-nights_112.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://***********/aiptcomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/batman-gotham-nights_113.jpg[/IMG]

----------


## Zaresh

> Not weird. He is super popular and has enjoyed a significant expansion into other media in the past 18 months, raising his profile further. Under the Red hood must be the most retold bat story of the 21st century at this stage.


Has he gained that much support? I wasn't aware. Those are some good news. I was dreading that he would loss his spot light time once AK impact faded. And the UtRH movie was 10 years ago, so... (even if that story has been retold more recently than even AK, it still was the first one to give some lasting impact after the original story).

Hmmm, so he's definitely filling that sweet spot two of my other faves are in. Cool.

------

Very promising preview, @Serg. I'm definitely looking forward to this one.

----------


## RedBird

> There's a new Hush figure coming out (by MAFEX).


Yes Please  :Stick Out Tongue: 




> Not a particularly good take on Jason imo.


Really? I thought it was fine. I mean the whole book is pretty light hearted and simple overall, and the characters seem to follow suit.

Though, in Jasons case, it does feel like the concept for the book comes from some bizarre universe, where there was a slight shift in the canon and Jason actually was more of an official Titan (for a lot longer than he was originally) and as such, didn't quite alienate himself to most of the Titans as Red Hood, (considering how familiar and easy going he seems with them and visa versa). 

It's.....Interesting, I guess. Like getting a weird sort of glimpse into 'what could have been'.



Also that Gotham Nights preview looks pretty good, looking forward to it.  :Smile:

----------


## Rise

> Has he gained that much support? I wasn't aware. Those are some good news. I was dreading that he would loss his spot light time once AK impact faded. And the UtRH movie was 10 years ago, so... (even if that story has been retold more recently than even AK, it still was the first one to give some lasting impact after the original story).
> 
> Hmmm, so he's definitely filling that sweet spot two of my other faves are in. Cool.
> 
> ------
> 
> Very promising preview, @Serg. I'm definitely looking forward to this one.


I mean, mentioning his name alone makes fans cheer in cons, his funko pop figure was sold out few minutes after it was released, Boon (creator of Injustice) said that he never saw any DC character get such a huge reaction like Red Hood did and Murphy said last year that working on WK made him discover 3 facts about Batman and one of them was that people seriously love Red Hood. He has been very popular _for years_ now and DC reaction actually has been pretty slow and lacking. 

It's why I think it's weird you keep insisting that he is a niche character because he is far from it.

----------


## Restingvoice

> I mean, mentioning his name alone makes fans cheer in cons, his funko pop figure was sold out few minutes after it was released, Boon (creator of Injustice) said that he never saw any DC character get such a huge reaction like Red Hood did and Murphy said last year that working on WK made him discover 3 facts about Batman and one of them was that people seriously love Red Hood. He has been very popular _for years_ now and DC reaction actually has been pretty slow and lacking. 
> 
> It's why I think it's weird you keep insisting that he is a niche character because he is far from it.


He's a niche among comic buyers I guess since not that many buy his book, but very popular overall...

----------


## Swallowtail

> He's a niche among comic buyers I guess since not that many buy his book, but very popular overall...


I mean, I know its not a popular opinion around this neck of the woods, but that book is very tired and has spent the last year being about a mystical interdimensiobal demon fighting warrior, which is not what most people are searching for If they pick up any Batbook sight unseen.

----------


## Zaresh

> I mean, mentioning his name alone makes fans cheer in cons, his funko pop figure was sold out few minutes after it was released, Boon (creator of Injustice) said that he never saw any DC character get such a huge reaction like Red Hood did and Murphy said last year that working on WK made him discover 3 facts about Batman and one of them was that people seriously love Red Hood. He has been very popular _for years_ now and DC reaction actually has been pretty slow and lacking. 
> 
> It's why I think it's weird you keep insisting that he is a niche character because he is far from it.


Gooood.

I guess it's because of my personal experience. I always find myself having to explain who Jason is to people when we're talking about Batman and stuff.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I mean, I know it’s not a popular opinion around this neck of the woods, but that book is very tired and has spent the last year being about a mystical interdimensiobal demon fighting warrior, which is not what most people are searching for If they pick up any Batbook sight unseen.


Even discounting RHATO, the very few books that have had him in a starring role haven't sold huge numbers either. His merch irritatingly also tends to be limited editions/exclusives creating certain degree of artificial scarcity. That said, Jason is definitely popular with non-comic book readers but that also means he doesn't move big numbers within the specialized market but he has a dedicated fanbase there. So he's both niche and mainstream at the same time.

----------


## Sergard

> [...]
> 
> ------
> 
> Very promising preview, @Serg. *I'm definitely looking forward to this one.*


Me too. I wanted this kind of story (Jason reuniting with other former residents of Ma Gunn's school) for quite some time, especially with a character like Numbers who wasn't able to "make it out" like Jason. Like it says in the preview, Numbers has worked for Black Mask and Penguin in the past.
The art looks nice too. I like how Numbers keeps his left hand in his pocket after it was shown that Ma Gunn aimed at his left hand in the flashback. I guess there will be a big scar on that hand.
Good work on the title design: the reversed E/3 for Numbers and the red crosshair because of the assassination element.





> The atmosphere in Titans: Titans Together *reminds me a little bit of the Scooby-Doo cartoon*. Which is not a particularly bad thing. I liked Scooby-Doo as a kid.
> The story is nothing big, but it is light (not counting the dead person) and fun - and fine for what it is. [...]


Fun fact: Today, two days after Titans: Titans Together #1, the digital first edition of Scooby-Doo: Mystery Inc. #1 was released. Pretty much the same energy. (The issue celebrates 50 years Scooby-Doo. I wasn't aware that the franchise is already so old.)






> Even discounting RHATO, the very few books that have had him in a starring role haven't sold huge numbers either. His merch irritatingly also tends to be limited editions/exclusives creating certain degree of artificial scarcity. *That said, Jason is definitely popular with non-comic book readers but that also means he doesn't move big numbers within the specialized market but he has a dedicated fanbase there. So he's both niche and mainstream at the same time.*


Pretty much this. Jason is niche AND popular.

And talking about dedicated fanbase:
symeona.kanellou has done a redraw of a Titans: Titans Together #1 panel.
That was fast.

----------


## Sergard

Little off-topic: It seems like Jason Fabok is going to explain the idea behind each Three Jokers premium cover, starting with Joker's Red Hood version. Personally, I think this is interesting.

The YouTube channel Watchtower Database has finally released their review of Batman: The Adventures Continue Chapter 6.




I still find new House of Batman fanart on Twitter - fanarts for a cartoon that doesn't even exist.

Unmoving





acclast

----------


## Zaresh

> The YouTube channel Watchtower Database has finally released their review of Batman: The Adventures Continue Chapter 6.


Ha ha ha. That's some really fun review, to be honest. It made me laugh a few times.

*spoilers:*

Yeah, the thing about Tim being Robin for less than a year picked my attention. And I see that we're a bunch wondering about the alternate universe thing for Jason. But we also know that there was another ward in this same timeline we don't know about, by that's been said, so...
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Sergard

Dexter Soy has shared a Red Ronin cosplay by cosplaywill92. Looks good.




Something general since I'm not sure if everybody has heard about it: On August 22, the virtual convention "DC FanDome" takes place - and fans can submit questions. Maybe someone here would like to submit a question/questions to one or more of the given topics (mainly movies and TV shows/cartoons).

----------


## RedBird

Just read Gotham Nights #11, and I kinda enjoyed it.

I loved the way Jason is displayed in the first story, clever and capable, however even when he is at a major disadvantage, he'll just take a hit, roll with the punches and keep on pushing forward. That's the kind of content I love to see.  :Smile:  

*spoilers:*
Also Jason throwing his gun when he is out of ammo reminded me of that one move in injustice 2 again XD
*end of spoilers*

The second one features Jason and Dick working on a case together and the story presents them as actual detectives, which is nice. Plus throughout, there's some amusing back and forth between them as they bounce off each other.


As far as short stories go, these were pretty decent, the first one especially makes me crave for a new and actual solo book for Jason after rhato.

----------


## redmax99

> Just read Gotham Nights #11, and I kinda enjoyed it.
> 
> I loved the way Jason is displayed in the first story, clever and capable, however even when he is at a major disadvantage, he'll just take a hit, roll with the punches and keep on pushing forward. That's the kind of content I love to see.  
> 
> *spoilers:*
> Also Jason throwing his gun when he is out of ammo reminded me of that one move in injustice 2 again XD
> *end of spoilers*
> 
> The second one features Jason and Dick working on a case together and the story presents them as actual detectives, which is nice. Plus throughout, there's some amusing back and forth between them as they bounce off each other.
> ...



i think the second one needed to be expanded upon and not just cliff notes

----------


## Sergard

Scott Lobdell

_"I’m stepping away from only remaining freelance work on Red Hood and The Outlaws, effective immediately. Issue #50 out in October will be my final issue. While I’m profoundly grateful for the last ten years on a book telling the story of a tragically flawed man in search of redemption, I depart certain that my vacancy will be filled by a dynamic new voice. #rhato #redhoodandtheoutlaws #exitstageleft #later #freelancelife #bye"_

----------


## Zaresh

> Scott Lobdell
> 
> _"I’m stepping away from only remaining freelance work on Red Hood and The Outlaws, effective immediately. Issue #50 out in October will be my final issue. While I’m profoundly grateful for the last ten years on a book telling the story of a tragically flawed man in search of redemption, I depart certain that my vacancy will be filled by a dynamic new voice. #rhato #redhoodandtheoutlaws #exitstageleft #later #freelancelife #bye"_


Well, we were expecting this one. He will be miss, as much as others who have written for the character. I'm happy that he seems open to write for Jason as a freelance job, still. 
And we now have some kind of weak confirmation that Red Hood already has an assigned writer from now on, by someone young, or new and dynamic I guess.

(Sorry if my English is a little stiff right now)

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Welp, at least is official now. 

Godspeed Lobdell, thank you for doing Jason justice and finally letting him be more than just another villain used to prop up the bat family and for giving us a new group in the Outlaws. Best of luck on all of your future endeavors.  

That said, I hope that is a sign we're finally coming back to the OG costume and the lame Sub Zero ripoff is retired for good.

----------


## Morgoth

I liked his run. Not always, there were some moments what I didn't approve, but mostly I've enjoyed his story. I hope next writer will do a great job.
Also, probably Jason will get new author at the same time with Dick and Barbara. They seemingly want to do some kind of relaunch for Bat-titles.

----------


## Aahz

> I liked his run. Not always, there were some moments what I didn't approve, but mostly I've enjoyed his story. I hope next writer will do a great job.
> Also, probably Jason will get new author at the same time with Dick and Barbara. They seemingly want to do some kind of relaunch for Bat-titles.


I guess we will see a relaunch of most titles.

----------


## chachi

Re-Launch with a new #1?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

That's what relaunches usually mean, yeah.

----------


## Jman27

this is my first red hood series that i follow i enjoy it alot hopefully the team stays the same.

----------


## Zaresh

Oh, wait, I read it wrong. He's not taking any more freelance work period. I need to really stop and read slowly more often, and upsize my text font in my desktop browser.

----------


## Zaresh

Double posting, because I've finally read Gotham Nights 11.

It was a very nice read. I liked the first story more than the second one though. I think I like both what Orlando wanted to tell, how he told it, and his voice for Jason. Liked the art a lot too, both colours and pencils. I wouldn't mind more from this team in the future.
The second story was OK. It was a bit on the side of the simplified style of characterization for both Dick and Jason, and even if the story was probably more the kind of murder-mystery that I definitely enjoy, I wasn't really satisfied by how it was laid (I'm a bit spoiled for these kind of stories I guess). Art was more like what you usually find in these comics, it was alright, but I didn't like it as much as the art for the first story.

----------


## Sergard

> Just read Gotham Nights #11, and I kinda enjoyed it.
> 
> I loved the way Jason is displayed in the first story, clever and capable, however even when he is at a major disadvantage, he'll just take a hit, roll with the punches and keep on pushing forward. That's the kind of content I love to see.  
> 
> *spoilers:*
> Also Jason throwing his gun when he is out of ammo reminded me of that one move in injustice 2 again XD
> *end of spoilers*
> 
> The second one features Jason and Dick working on a case together and the story presents them as actual detectives, which is nice. Plus throughout, there's some amusing back and forth between them as they bounce off each other.
> ...


Gotham Nights #11 was awesome. I liked both stories, especially the first one. For each being only an 8-page-story, both writers and artists/colorists did incredibly good.
And I agree, I would like to see more stuff like "Reunion" for Jason.

*spoilers:*
The last panel with Jason sitting in the chair reminds me of Dexter Soy's version in RHatO #20 where Jason holds a gun and reads a book.
*end of spoilers*

I'm pleasantly surprised how fun the digital first stories are. I hope DC continues this line. With all those long and dramatic story arcs in DC comics nowadays, it's nice to have some short but fun (and cheap) stories from time to time.


Dexter Soy (Artemis with a little "Batman and the Outsiders" reference)

----------


## Zaresh

> Gotham Nights #11 was awesome. I liked both stories, especially the first one. For each being only an 8-page-story, both writers and artists/colorists did incredibly good.
> And I agree, I would like to see more stuff like "Reunion" for Jason.
> 
> *spoilers:*
> The last panel with Jason sitting in the chair reminds me of Dexter Soy's version in RHatO #20 where Jason holds a gun and reads a book.
> *end of spoilers*
> 
> I'm pleasantly surprised how fun the digital first stories are. I hope DC continues this line. With all those long and dramatic story arcs in DC comics nowadays, it's nice to have some short but fun (and cheap) stories from time to time.


I'm considering getting the trades of Gotham Nights if they release them, even when I'm pretty much pennyless at this point.  It's a good way of getting people I know interested in the bat side of the DCU without needing to know the backstory for  every character, imho.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Count me third as being pleasantly surprised by Gotham Nights' handling of Jason. Orlando seems to have struck a nice balance between Winnick and Lobdell's takes, while Guggenheim went for a more streamlined and simplistic (not that it was bad, mind you) take of Lobdell's Jason. I would definitely be down to see Orlando handling Jason after Lobdell while Guggenheim is fine for the occasional one-off.

----------


## RedBird

I'm really glad to see a few of us agree and approve of Orlando's take on Jason, cause for me, after reading, and rereading it, it's only gotten better.

And yeah, Dark I agree, this felt like current Jason with a touch of that edge from UTRH/Lost days, a perfect blend. It's only 8 pages but it's still well told, with a nice distinct attitude and voice for the character. The art from Petraites was also quite lovely in my opinion, bold, with some very nice sequencing work, especially in that gun fu scene. I've already been a fan of their work since Rat Queens, so if Soy is still unavailable by time the relaunch comes along, I certainly wouldn't mind seeing Petraites on the rhato/Red Hood title.

I think with this one story, Orlando has honestly been bumped up to my number #1  spot for 'new writers for Red Hood'. One can dream of course.

----------


## Jackalope89

I also agree it was a fun read. I just hope the Dark Trinity remains so with whomever takes over the series after 50.

----------


## Zaresh

Mmmm... Wasn't Orlando the one who wrote some lovecraftianesque run in Aquaman that people liked a lot? I don't read Aquaman, but I sort of remember something like that being the case?

It gives me ideas, if he was.

Edit: nevermind, I was mistaken, I think. And probably mixing things up.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> The End is Nigh


https://twitter.com/dextersoy/status...17168019398656

----------


## Sergard

TITANS: TITANS TOGETHER #2 - Bride of Blood Preview (source)

----------


## Sergard



----------


## Jackalope89

Ooh. Interesting. Having a Jason-centric storyline? Yes please. 

And it seems like its the first time Jason will be meeting Rose in this continuity, so that will certainly have "implications" going forward.

----------


## Sergard

> https://twitter.com/dextersoy/status...17168019398656


Dexter Soy has revealed in the comments that this is the cover for the final issue. But sadly, he's not doing the interior art of RH:O #50. It would have been awesome if DC could have gotten Soy and Gandini for the last issue.

Brett Booth




Wayne Faucher

_"Heres a page I inked back in 2013 for Red Hood and the Outlaws #17, as part of the Death of the Family story arc. The pencils are the stunning work of Ardian Syaf."_

----------


## Aahz

> Ooh. Interesting. Having a Jason-centric storyline? Yes please.


Seems wired that they are doing it in a Titans Book.

Btw. does anybody how many issues this Titans Together is going to have?

----------


## Restingvoice

> 


Whoa okay. Deathstroke's voice is weird mainly because I never saw him beg before. I feel like he's more likely to get 1 titan hostage while forcing the others to do what he wants.

So how's the consensus for this author? Looking at the previous issue and this one, seems he has the right and fun ideas, just needs more polish on character voices is my impression

----------


## L.H.

Well, you should read the whole issue first  :Wink: .
I've never heard of this author before, but I liked both issues and I don't think they're acting OOC, that's just another universe. I hope he is going to add Wally and Roy.

----------


## Jackalope89

Yeah, its actually pretty good.

*spoilers:*
Jason in this followed the usual background, died, came back, and then ended up joining the Titans rather than being solo. What's more, looks like he got through to Rose. Possibly setting up for her to join the Titans in the future.
*end of spoilers*

Also, taken into account what's been said in the issue, no one is OOC. Just different settings for them than the main universe.

----------


## Sergard

> Seems wired that they are doing it in a Titans Book.
> 
> Btw. does anybody how many issues this Titans Together is going to have?


According to Phil Hester, the writer of the series, there's at least one more story to come.
But I hope DC will continue Titans: Titans Together.





> Whoa okay. Deathstroke's voice is weird mainly because I never saw him beg before. I feel like he's more likely to get 1 titan hostage while forcing the others to do what he wants.
> 
> So how's the consensus for this author? Looking at the previous issue and this one, seems he has the right and fun ideas, just needs more polish on character voices is my impression



Similar to the last issue, I wasn't so sure about the story because the preview didn't convince me. But after reading issue 2, I can say that I enjoyed this one too.
Phil Hester writes short but fun stories with a bit darkness to them. And since this is an alternate universe, I'm fine with characters not being 100% like their main continuity versions (I don't know  most of the Titans characters good enough to judge them anyway. But I definitely like their team dynamic in these stories.)


Batman: The Adventures continue #7 is out too.

*spoilers:*
Jason is back to being the observer and is only seen in two panels. Seems like his existence is going to stay a mystery for another while.
Altogether, I liked the issue. It has some nice dialogue and a general good flow. Although I have to say that I thought that Azrael's transition from his St. Dumas outfit to his Batman outfit was very, very fast. But maybe that's just me because I like the first costume more than the second one.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Sergard

I call it a rumor for now because it comes from a fanpage but that_artemis_fan is normally right when they claim something regarding RHatO. (source)




> There you go y'all, the last cover of this run of RHATO, issue 50. @deathstar_soy came back to do the cover and it looks amazing and @paolo_pantalena will be doing the interiors. A big thanks to @scottylobdell for making my favourite character Artemis more popular in the DC universe, all the effort put in over 10 years and just being awesome. Thank you! Jason will be moving on to do his own thing, and so will Artemis. But I'm sure that they will both achieve their own greatness in their separate parts of the DC universe!


I have no trouble believing that Pantalena is going to do the interior artwork. Soy already confirmed that he's only contributing the cover.

But I will be sad when Jason and Artemis are really going to separate - especially since the source makes it sound like they'll be separated completely/have zero interactions in the future. And if Jason and Artemis separate, what will happen to Bizarro?

----------


## Jackalope89

Now I'm kind of dreading it ending for a different reason.  :Frown:

----------


## Zaresh

Nah. 
Even if they part ways for a while, it won't be forever. Just until the writers decide to pair them both again. It's a popular ship, those always come back.

It seems to me that they're trying to pair Jason with Rose now, but that one's no way as much popular as Artemis. And in any case, I'm guessing that, whoever takes over Jasonm wants a blank new status for him to tell their story. At least, that's what I'm getting from that rumour. Also, maybe Artemis is planned to be used by whoever writes WW and that's why they need her unattached to Jay.

Biz, though, worries me a bit.

----------


## TheCape

Even being an alternative universe, is still kind of weird to see Deathstroke begging for help (well maybe he would do it in the 90s when he was an anti-hero, so this might be that version).

Also, once Adam Glass run is over, i wonder if Jason would part of the next line up of TT, especially after his role in the TV show. Wich reminds me, how do you feel about Jason's characther in the Titan series?.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Even being an alternative universe, is still kind of weird to see Deathstroke begging for help (well maybe he would do it in the 90s when he was an anti-hero, so this might be that version).
> 
> Also, once Adam Glass run is over, i wonder if Jason would part of the next line up of TT, especially after his role in the TV show. Wich reminds me, how do you feel about Jason's characther in the Titan series?.


Different, for sure. The actor though, is a scene stealer when he's given the right stuff. I do wonder what sort of route they have for him going forward though. Killing doesn't have the same kind of shock value in this universe as it does in most others, so him going Red Hood and killing drug dealers wouldn't be as big a thing. Maybe something along the Red X from the animated Teen Titans series?

----------


## Zaresh

> Different, for sure. The actor though, is a scene stealer when he's given the right stuff. I do wonder what sort of route they have for him going forward though. Killing doesn't have the same kind of shock value in this universe as it does in most others, so him going Red Hood and killing drug dealers wouldn't be as big a thing. Maybe something along the Red X from the animated Teen Titans series?


Nah. I bet they're going to make him more like AK Jason, who arguably was more wild than Vanilla DCU Jason. Red X is just too soft for the Titansverse, imho.

----------


## Tony Stark

> https://twitter.com/dextersoy/status...17168019398656


Amazing cover. I'm said to see it end, but I have enjoyed the ride. Jason was my Robin growing up and to see him star in a book for 50 issues has just been amazing and stunning at the same time.

----------


## Sergard

> Even being an alternative universe, is still kind of weird to see Deathstroke begging for help (well maybe he would do it in the 90s when he was an anti-hero, so this might be that version).
> 
> Also, once Adam Glass run is over, i wonder if Jason would part of the next line up of TT, especially after his role in the TV show. Wich reminds me, how do you feel about Jason's characther in the Titan series?.


I don't think an anti-hero would do what Deathstroke did.

*spoilers:*
Deathstroke begging is just an act. He wants the Titans to get involved and fight Brother Blood's underlings so that he can sneak in and kill Brother Blood. Even Rose being brainwashed by Brother Blood is part of the plan. Deathstroke uses a neural implant (in place of Rose' missing eye) to reset Rose' memories. This Deathstroke is definitely not winning the father of the year award.

And all that just for money.
*end of spoilers*

I haven't watched the Titans TV show but I've seen a lot of clips. As far as I can tell, Curran Walters plays a wonderful Jason Todd - and there's a lot of praise for his portrayal in social media. I would definitely be in favor of a Robin spin-off starring Curran Walters (or a comic based on his portrayal). He's a great actor. CW could tell stories like the Ma Gunn arc, Jason meeting Nocturna or Batman: The Cult from Robin's perspective.

But I don't think that the TV series will have any influence on the (main continuity) Teen Titans comics. These two universes are just too different. Obviously, Jason is not a teen - and Jason already has half a dozen kids who need him more. And although I'm not a fan of the Teen Titans franchise, I especially don't like the idea of a mentor for the Teen Titans. Teen Titans should be about teen heroes figuring stuff out on their own. No adults involved. 


The solicitation for Titans: Titans Together #3 is out. This time, there will be two stories. None of them are written by Phil Hester who wrote the first two issues and has already announced that there will be a third story by him. I guess Titans: Titans Together is getting the same treatment as Gotham Nights - short stories by different writers and artists.




> A charismatic cult leader has been recruiting followers to join his church, a highly suspicious organization locked behind the walls of a private compound. For Raven, freeing this vulnerable flock is imperative...the question is, how can she save people who dont want to be saved? When reports surface that LexCorp has gained access to confidential government health records, Raven realizes that this could mean the unmasking of countless superheroes. With Beast Boys help, she must infiltrate LexCorps private servers and destroy the information before it falls into the wrong hands.

----------


## Sergard

> Amazing cover. I'm said to see it end, but I have enjoyed the ride. *Jason was my Robin growing up* and to see him star in a book for 50 issues has just been amazing and stunning at the same time.


Must have sucked to see him die.
Did you read pre- and post-crisis Jason?



Jason will have an appearance in Batman: Gotham Nights #12 alongside the other Robins. (source)




> Batman: Gotham Nights #12
> Every current and former Robin has been captured by a mysterious villain! Will these distinctly different students of Batman be able to stand each other long enough to fight off a horde of their greatest enemies?





I guess this also solves the mystery of the Red Hood panel that V Ken Marion had posted in April (together with panels showing Damian or Dick.)

----------


## TheCape

> I don't think an anti-hero would do what Deathstroke did.
> 
> *spoilers:*
> Deathstroke begging is just an act. He wants the Titans to get involved and fight Brother Blood's underlings so that he can sneak in and kill Brother Blood. Even Rose being brainwashed by Brother Blood is part of the plan. Deathstroke uses a neural implant (in place of Rose' missing eye) to reset Rose' memories. This Deathstroke is definitely not winning the father of the year award.
> 
> And all that just for money.
> *end of spoilers*
> 
> I haven't watched the Titans TV show but I've seen a lot of clips. As far as I can tell, Curran Walters plays a wonderful Jason Todd - and there's a lot of praise for his portrayal in social media. I would definitely be in favor of a Robin spin-off starring Curran Walters (or a comic based on his portrayal). He's a great actor. CW could tell stories like the Ma Gunn arc, Jason meeting Nocturna or Batman: The Cult from Robin's perspective.
> ...


Thank you for the information, i was just bading my opinion in the preview and still haven't read the story, that definetly sounds like the asshole i remember.   

As for the show, eh if is a 50/50 sometime they do influence directions sometimes they don't, really is hard to know when they are gonna do that. I personally inclined to think that they won't, especially if a new creative team is announced for a Red Hood solo (or a third incarnation of the Outlaws that is not written by Scott Lodbell), but if they don't, is most likely that he will be either as guest in Batman and some DC tittles or they will put him in an established team, maybe Outsiders or a new Titans Book, whi knows?. It wouldn't surprised me if i am wrong thougth, right now i'm more inclined to a new solo tittle with a new creative team.

----------


## Sergard

Little off-topic: Talia Al Ghul is getting her own anthology collection "Batman Arkham: Talia al Ghul" next year. (source)
The collection also contains Red Hood: The Lost Days #1. I like her depiction in that issue.




> Batman Arkham: Talia al Ghul
> 
> Intelligent, calculating, and composed: this brilliant strategist and master martial artist has proven to be one of the very few adversaries capable of going head-to-head with Batman on an emotional, mental, and physical level.
> 
> As Ra’s al Ghul’s daughter–also known as Daughter of the Demon–she is an elite and lethal warrior of the League of Assassins. Throughout this anthology, however, she enlists in both villain and hero affiliations, making her a complex antihero in her own right. Batman Arkham: Talia al Ghul features the combined storytelling talents of classic creators like Dennis O’Neil, Bob Brown, Neal Adams, Grant Morrison, Andy Kubert, Greg Rucka, Judd Winick and many more!
> 
> This anthology collects Batman #232, Batman #656, Detective Comics #411, Batman: Son of the Demon #1, Batman: Death and the Maidens #9, President Luthor Secret Files #1, Batman Villains Secret Files 2005 #1, *Red Hood: The Lost Days #1*, Who’s Who: The Definitive Directory of the DC Universe #23, Batman and Robin #12, Batman Incorporated #2, Batman Incorporated #13, and Batman #34-35.




From Red Hood: Lost Days #1

----------


## Jackalope89

See, that little bit is fine. Its the sleeping together part that really puts people off.

----------


## AtheistInRed

Titans Together #2 and Gotham Nights #11 was boring tbh.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Little off-topic: Talia Al Ghul is getting her own anthology collection "Batman Arkham: Talia al Ghul" next year. (source)
> The collection also contains Red Hood: The Lost Days #1. I like her depiction in that issue.


I miss when Talia was a good hearted woman torn between her love for her father and her love for Bruce and not just a female Cobra Commander.

----------


## Sergard

Preview for Gotham Nights #12 is out. (source)
I have to admit: The dialogue is a little weird.
And does Seeley mean Lucius Fox? (I can't remember that Luke ever worked for Wayne Enterprises.)

[IMG]https://***********/aiptcomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/batman-gotham-nights_121.jpg[/IMG]



[IMG]https://***********/aiptcomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/batman-gotham-nights_123.jpg[/IMG]

----------


## Rise

Skimmed through the TT and GN. Not bad, but clearly aimed at younger audience. 

Liked how Jason called out Batman for recurring children, tho. It's the first time I see a writer who didn't put all the blame on Jason for his death.

----------


## Zaresh

@Sergard, perhaps it sounds wierd because it's plain exposition. From the begining to the end of the preview, with a few, little interuptions of dialogue that isn't explanatory but still feel weird.

There's a reason people tend to dislike that kind of writing: it sound really unnatural, people don't talk like that, not even when they are explaining stuff, unless they're teaching. That said, you can find good exposition that doesn't feel intrusive (I can remember the times it happens in the first Mission: Imposible movie, for example). Here, it makes me believe that Seeley rushed this story a bit, because as far as I know, this isn't something he usually does. But I could be wrong: it could be a trick to distract the bad guys, or a way to inform a third party, or something else that plain exposition time.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Preview for Gotham Nights #12 is out. (source)
> I have to admit: The dialogue is a little weird.
> And does Seeley mean Lucius Fox? (I can't remember that Luke ever worked for Wayne Enterprises.)
> 
> [IMG]https://***********/aiptcomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/batman-gotham-nights_121.jpg[/IMG]
> 
> 
> 
> [IMG]https://***********/aiptcomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/batman-gotham-nights_123.jpg[/IMG]


I think he is in Rebirth. It was in Detective Comics when they refurbish Azrael's suit and he's in a lab coat. Which surprised me because he's introduced in Batwing as an MMA fighter

----------


## Sergard

Travis Mercer

_"Joy riding"_





Off-topic but I've noticed that one of the writers on Titans: Titans Together #3 is Andrew Aydin who hasn't written for DC before, as far as I know - but his Wikipedia page looks impressive. This makes me wonder how DC managed to get this guy to write a Titans short story for them and if he is going to stay for bigger projects. This also reminds me a little bit of the Kevin Shinick rumor from February and DC trying to hire new writers.

----------


## Sergard

Quic (@quic__art on Instagram) has posted a second part of their little DC Super Hero Girls fan-comic about Dick and Jason (here's part 1). It's cute - and sad. But still cute.

----------


## Sergard

(continuation)

----------


## Sergard

(final two pages)

----------


## Sergard

I've just read Gotham Nights #12 - and I don't know. I'm a little disappointed, I guess.

*spoilers:*
I didn't expect Underbelly. That was a positive surprise. Even though it was a fake Underbelly.
But I'm not a fan of Clayface as a villain after all the work in Detective Comics to rehabilitate him.
There's also not a lot of dialogue to judge character relationships on because, as it turns out, everyone was just playing an act to fool Clayface-Damian.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Sergard

V Ken Marion

_"Our Batman: Gotham Nights #12  is available now!  A Robin centric tale featuring ALL of the heroes to carry the mantle, By @HackinTimSeeley (writer), Me(pencils), #sanduflorea(inks) and @adalhouse  (colors).  Get your copy on the @DCComics app or @comiXology, only $0.99!"_

----------


## Sergard

Someone asked Tim Seeley on Twitter if Gotham Nights #12 takes place after Joker War.

Tim Seeley's answer:

_"It's more of a 'dancing between the raindrops' approach to continuity. It's a Robins story with no direct connection to crossover events."_


And there was also this little conversation on Twitter:

Tim Seeley Twitter 07-07-2020.jpg

Tim Seeley Twitter 07-07-2020 part 2.jpg

----------


## Zaresh

> Someone asked Tim Seeley on Twitter if Gotham Nights #12 takes place after Joker War.
> 
> Tim Seeley's answer:
> 
> _"It's more of a 'dancing between the raindrops' approach to continuity. It's a Robins story with no direct connection to crossover events."_
> 
> 
> And there was also this little conversation on Twitter:
> 
> ...


Oh, so it's confirmed: it's loose canon. I was expecting that, but still, it's good to have a first hand word.

----------


## Sergard

artist: fishtre

BTAS Jason Todd and eyebrows:



This is exactly my kind of sarcastic humor:

----------


## Sergard

I found this panel on Twitter (source). Apparently it's from DCeased: Dead Planet #2.

----------


## sifighter

> I found this panel on Twitter (source). Apparently it's from DCeased: Dead Planet #2.


Well I'm excited, the first issue was great and given how it ended I can see why maybe the Unkillables team has to go rescue everyone and possibly medical support.

Also, interesting to see that Blue Devil is here, first time I have seen him since Justice League Dark.

----------


## Zaresh

> I found this panel on Twitter (source). Apparently it's from DCeased: Dead Planet #2.


Huh... Unexpected, but cool. I wasn't hoping for them to show up, and briefly, until the very end.

----------


## Sergard

Okay, I found the whole preview for DCeased: Dead Planet #2.
*spoilers:*
Who's the archer in the preview? Roy?
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Zaresh

> Okay, I found the whole preview for DCeased: Dead Planet #2.
> *spoilers:*
> Who's the archer in the preview? Roy?
> *end of spoilers*


Where, which page? I can't see any archer (not surprising, my eyesight is pretty crappy)

----------


## Sergard

> Where, which page? I can't see any archer (not surprising, my eyesight is pretty crappy)


Maybe it's my eyesight that's crappy.

*spoilers:*
On the first page. The guy that gets hit by the green beam. It looks like he's carrying a quiver with arrows. He's also wearing a cap backwards.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Zaresh

> Maybe it's my eyesight that's crappy.
> 
> *spoilers:*
> On the first page. The guy that gets hit by the green beam. It looks like he's carrying a quiver with arrows. He's also wearing a cap backwards.
> *end of spoilers*


Ahhh.
*spoilers:*
 Could be Roy. He wears a cap backwards, which is very Roy-ish. But he's also carrying a belt holding a lot of pockets, which isn't very Roy-ish.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Is Roy. 

Strangely, he looked a bit different when he appeared in the Digital only series that was obviously based on his pre-FP version, now he looks like a mix of both.

That said, I'm growing a bit tired of Taylor's writing since he has the characters act out of character by making very dumb choices/actions since otherwise the plot would be solved in five minutes.

----------


## Sergard

Jason has a tiny guest appearance in Titans: Titans Together #3 (in the last two panels of the issue).



I definitely recommend the issue to all Raven fans. The issue contains two short stories. Both are about Raven. In the first story - What's "Normal"? by Guggenheim -, she's the sole protagonist (Dick has a guest appearance). The second one - "Cool and Hipaa" by Aydin - is about her and Beast Boy (with Jason's two-panel-guest-appearance as seen above). The first story was fine but I liked the second one more because of the fun chemistry between Raven and Beast Boy.

----------


## Restingvoice

I know Jason was a Titan in comics and in TV and adventures with Donna Post Crisis and in the Outlaws with Roy and Kori and partners with Dick in the Batfam and this is an out of continuity story but it still weird seeing him suddenly interacting with the Titans casually as a team member as Red Hood roasting everyone like a little brother. 

Like I need a transition. My mind hasn't caught up ^^

----------


## Zaresh

> Jason has a tiny guest appearance in Titans: Titans Together #3 (in the last two panels of the issue).
> 
> 
> 
> I definitely recommend the issue to all Raven fans. The issue contains two short stories. Both are about Raven. In the first story - What's "Normal"? by Guggenheim -, she's the sole protagonist (Dick has a guest appearance). The second one - "Cool and Hipaa" by Aydin - is about her and Beast Boy (with Jason's two-panel-guest-appearance as seen above). The first story was fine but I liked the second one more because of the fun chemistry between Raven and Beast Boy.


Ha, that one made me laugh. It's very silly a meme culture-reliant, but as someone who has lurked around certain places for years, well, it's funny.




> I know Jason was a Titan in comics and in TV and adventures with Donna Post Crisis and in the Outlaws with Roy and Kori and partners with Dick in the Batfam and this is an out of continuity story but it still weird seeing him suddenly interacting with the Titans casually as a team member as Red Hood roasting everyone like a little brother. 
> 
> Like I need a transition. My mind hasn't caught up ^^


Remember: these digital first comics, as far as I know, are almost out of continuity, if not their own thing entirely. It's the same for the Gotham Nights one, and I think the Superman series too? But I'm not sure about that one.

----------


## redmax99

> I know Jason was a Titan in comics and in TV and adventures with Donna Post Crisis and in the Outlaws with Roy and Kori and partners with Dick in the Batfam and this is an out of continuity story but it still weird seeing him suddenly interacting with the Titans casually as a team member as Red Hood roasting everyone like a little brother. 
> 
> Like I need a transition. My mind hasn't caught up ^^


Jason was a reserve titan in pre and post crisis that's how they knew he died in post crisis

----------


## Sergard

Red Hood: Outlaw #47 Variant cover

----------


## Sergard

Marton Adam Marton

_"Commission work.
Character designs of DC characters such as the Red Hood and the Green Arrow based on their Injustice versions with a little samurai twist."_

(see linked ********** page for the Green Arrow design)

[IMG]https://cdna.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/026/038/140/large/marton-adam-marton-mam-samurai-red-hood-concept-02.jpg?1587687385[/IMG]

[IMG]https://cdnb.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/026/038/143/large/marton-adam-marton-mam-samurai-red-hood-concept-03.jpg?1587687392[/IMG]

[IMG]https://cdnb.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/026/052/201/large/marton-adam-marton-mam-samurai-red-hood-concept-04.jpg?1587736398[/IMG]

----------


## Zaresh

> Marton Adam Marton
> 
> _"Commission work.
> Character designs of DC characters such as the Red Hood and the Green Arrow based on their Injustice versions with a little samurai twist."_
> 
> (see linked ********** page for the Green Arrow design)
> 
> [IMG]https://cdna.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/026/038/140/large/marton-adam-marton-mam-samurai-red-hood-concept-02.jpg?1587687385[/IMG]
> 
> ...


Oh... This one is pretty cool. I like the one for Oliver too.

----------


## Aahz

Does anyone know how long the Digital Series like Gotham Nights and Titans Together are going to continue? 

Since they are based on the original stories from the 100 Page Giants I doubt there is much material left for future issues.

----------


## Sergard

> Does anyone know how long the Digital Series like Gotham Nights and Titans Together are going to continue? 
> 
> Since they are based on the original stories from the 100 Page Giants I doubt there is much material left for future issues.


Are the two Raven stories in Titans: Titans Together #3 from the 100 Page Giants too?
I agree that there's probably not much material left for future issues. But it's a shame. I like the short story style of DC's Digital First initiative. I would like more writers, artists and characters to be part of this.



Here's a cool article about Batman: The Adventures Continue and the corresponding new action figures.
Batman's Animated Adventures Continue with New Figures and Comics

----------


## ChangingStation

> Ha, that one made me laugh. It's very silly a meme culture-reliant, but as someone who has lurked around certain places for years, well, it's funny.
> 
> 
> 
> Remember: these digital first comics, as far as I know, are almost out of continuity, if not their own thing entirely. It's the same for the Gotham Nights one, and I think the Superman series too? But I'm not sure about that one.


Gotham Knights is genuinely assumed to be in canon, but not especially reference heavy to make it easy for New Readers to understand. The writer of the last issue tweeted as such.

----------


## Zaresh

> Gotham Knights is genuinely assumed to be in canon, but not especially reference heavy to make it easy for New Readers to understand. The writer of the last issue tweeted as such.


As far as I recall, Seeley said that it was loosely canon. That means it really isn't mean to be canon most of the time, in my book. If anyone can repost that tweet here, I'll be thankfull. That way I can set my opinion with some base or stand corrected. I think I read that tweet in some other thread, not here.

---

Good lord. So many many Ladybug / Batman fics I'm not interested in. I know it's not fair, complaining about people enjoying their hobbies; but it's a bit of a chore navigating the Jason Todd tag in AO3 these days. I wonder when people is going to grow pass this trend. I'm happy for those who enjoy it, but... eh...

I guess I'll have to work my stuff or read some books waiting in my pile instead of reading fics.

----------


## Aahz

https://twitter.com/Quic19

----------


## Sergard

> As far as I recall, Seeley said that it was loosely canon. That means it really isn't mean to be canon most of the time, in my book. If anyone can repost that tweet here, I'll be thankfull. That way I can set my opinion with some base or stand corrected. I think I read that tweet in some other thread, not here.



Here's the post.




> Someone asked Tim Seeley on Twitter if Gotham Nights #12 takes place after Joker War.
> 
> Tim Seeley's answer:
> 
> _"It's more of a 'dancing between the raindrops' approach to continuity. It's a Robins story with no direct connection to crossover events."_
> 
> 
> And there was also this little conversation on Twitter:
> 
> ...







> Good lord. So many many Ladybug / Batman fics I'm not interested in. I know it's not fair, complaining about people enjoying their hobbies; but it's a bit of a chore navigating the Jason Todd tag in AO3 these days. I wonder when people is going to grow pass this trend. I'm happy for those who enjoy it, but... eh...
> 
> I guess I'll have to work my stuff or read some books waiting in my pile instead of reading fics.


Have you tried to exclude Miraculous Ladybug? A03 has the filter option to exclude certain stuff. You just could use "Other tags to exclude" and exclude "Miraculous Ladybug". Doesn't that work?

----------


## Zaresh

> Here's the post.
> 
> Have you tried to exclude Miraculous Ladybug? A03 has the filter option to exclude certain stuff. You just could use "Other tags to exclude" and exclude "Miraculous Ladybug". Doesn't that work?


Oh, that's useful. It wasn't there a year ago, was it? Now I can finally filter that ABO stuff too. Thanks a ton!

--------

Cute, @Aahz. Very cute, and the caption story about those puppies that goes with it is kindly heartwarming.

----------


## Sergard

> Oh, that's useful. It wasn't there a year ago, was it? Now I can finally filter that ABO stuff too. Thanks a ton!
> 
> [...]


It's a rather new feature, yes - but I can't remember when it was introduced (I don't use it). It's possible that it's not even a year old.



This is such a cute cosplay photo by Jordan.J.Cosplay:




And this shot is funny in a very basic sense (source: tiny_hannibal):

----------


## Jackalope89

Yeah, I've since used the filter with that too. Very useful with getting rid of stories under 2k words, ladybug crossovers (not worth it for the 5 out of 100 thousand that might be good), and other such things.

----------


## Sergard

For people who like fan-movies: There's a Red Hood & Deathstroke movie named "Drums of War" in the making (source).





Watchtower Database has released their BATMAN: The Adventures Continue, Chapter 7 review. They even mention that Willis Todd is the current Wingman in comics.

----------


## Restingvoice

> For people who like fan-movies: There's a Red Hood & Deathstroke movie named "Drums of War" in the making (source).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Watchtower Database has released their BATMAN: The Adventures Continue, Chapter 7 review. They even mention that Willis Todd is the current Wingman in comics.


Interesting design for the helmet. My first thought somehow is a racer, even though it looks nothing like a racing helmet.
...
...
I want Jason to have a bike. I asked before, right, and you guys said he doesn't have a named bike?

----------


## Zaresh

> Interesting design for the helmet. My first thought somehow is a racer, even though it looks nothing like a racing helmet.
> ...
> ...
> I want Jason to have a bike. I asked before, right, and you guys said he doesn't have a named bike?


Nope, he doesn't. Tim had one (or was it a car), and Dick. And I think even Damian had a regular one. But not Jason that I remember. He uses different stuff every time, I think.

----------


## Sergard

> Interesting design for the helmet. My first thought somehow is a racer, even though it looks nothing like a racing helmet.
> ...
> ...
> *I want Jason to have a bike.* I asked before, right, and you guys said he doesn't have a named bike?


What kind of bike?
And no, he never had a named one. What would you name it?

----------


## Restingvoice

> What kind of bike?
> And no, he never had a named one. What would you name it?


Idk. Something that looks rugged. 

Exposed engine, even though he gets shot all the time so that's a bad idea, that's just for the looks. 

Spiked tires so it can scale buildings or at least a grappling hook 

Basically my first thought is the BMW R18 but it should be lighter than that though since he's gonna jump off rooftops with it, so I looked at off-road bikes, they look too light. I like something that has a weight in it. I don't really like racing bike because it looks too slick and clean. Even though it's not gonna look as clean once it got shot...

Of course, it has to be red and black

The name, written in contrast to the rugged masculine body, in a feminine script is "Daddy's Disappointment" lol

----------


## Jackalope89

> Idk. Something that looks rugged. 
> 
> Exposed engine, even though he gets shot all the time so that's a bad idea, that's just for the looks. 
> 
> Spiked tires so it can scale buildings or at least a grappling hook 
> 
> Basically my first thought is the BMW R18 but it should be lighter than that though since he's gonna jump off rooftops with it, so I looked at off-road bikes, they look too light. I like something that has a weight in it. I don't really like racing bike because it looks too slick and clean. Even though it's not gonna look as clean once it got shot...
> 
> Of course, it has to be red and black
> ...


Something like the Akira motorcycle?

[IMG]https://www*****lessrobot.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/kaneda-b.jpg[/IMG]

----------


## Jackalope89

Or maybe the one from Judge Dredd?

----------


## Sergard

I found some closer looks at the Red Hood Ronin figurine by Marton Adam Marton (source).
This design is sooo good. I'm a little sad that it's not something official. I like all those little details: The bat ears on the naginata, the flower motive in the logo, the dragon heads on the guns, the demonic mouth mask, etc.

----------


## Restingvoice

I like Akira one better.

----------


## Zaresh

Why not something more practical, even if it's not pretty? Like a bike for motocross. I used to see them a lot here, growing up, between teens and young tweens because they were relatively cheap made, and allowed them to go pretty crazy in their runs.

Maybe those aren't the fastest, but sure you can jump and slide and whatever racing throughout a city with them.

----------


## Arsenal

Given how frequently Jason seems to travel (And how he lacks a city & steady home base), I don’t think it’d be worth it to give him any sort of custom or signature vehicle for now.

----------


## Sergard

Here are three bikes that Jason has used in the Rebirth run:

Red Hood and the Outlaws: Rebirth





Red Hood and the Outlaws #18




Red Hood: Outlaw #42

[IMG]https://***********/graphicpolicy.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/RHOUTL_42_4.jpg[/IMG]

----------


## Zaresh

Ok, so maybe not a motocross bike, or whatever. But a motorcycle for trials. Way more like an actual bike I guess, even if it's slender: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle_trials

I don't know. The idea is something that he could use for... for parkour with it, something motorized but lightweight and uhm, easy to jump with while crossing roofs.

I know nothing about motorcycles, to be honest. But I liked them a lot growing up.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Ok, so maybe not a motocross bike, or whatever. But a motorcycle for trials. Way more like an actual bike I guess, even if it's slender: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle_trials
> 
> I don't know. The idea is something that he could use for... for parkour with it, something motorized but lightweight and uhm, easy to jump with while crossing roofs.
> 
> I know nothing about motorcycles, to be honest. But I liked them a lot growing up.


Well, lightweight means little to no actual gadgets and what not. Let alone possible armor. Plus, I'd prefer something that can get him from point A to point B fast, safe, and in style. Trying to hop rooftops in a vehicle, may as well go Kiteman at that point.

----------


## Zaresh

> Well, lightweight means little to no actual gadgets and what not. Let alone possible armor. Plus, I'd prefer something that can get him from point A to point B fast, safe, and in style. Trying to hop rooftops in a vehicle, may as well go Kiteman at that point.


Oh, but @restingvoice was looking for something that could be used while grappling and the like, right? That's what came to my mind when I read their post at least. I personally don't mind if it doesn't have armour, to be honest: he's not going to use it for tanking. But a racing bike could be cool. It's hard to hit something if it's too fast to be hit in a run.

My personal tastes go for old bikes, like the ones you could see in the WWII or earlier. And big, cool bikes that feel like freaking space fighters when you ride them. Those are awesome, even if they're high maintenance, I guess. Not the best choice for a vigilante (unless you turn them into tanks I guess).

----------


## Sergard

More bikes

Red Hood and the Outlaws #21 (New52 run)




Red Hood and the Outlaws Annual #1



Red Hood: Outlaw #29

----------


## AmiMizuno

So the actor on Titans would love for his character to be killed off by the Joker. We might get a Death in the family.

----------


## Sergard

From _DCeased: Hope and World's End #5_ (The speech bubble belongs to Talia Al Ghul.)




On a different note, partly a little off-topic:

Titans: Titans Together #4 preview is out. Maybe I'm blind but I haven't seen a release date.

Yesterday, Gotham Nights #13 was released. Two-Face is on the cover. The preview shows Damian, Batman and Hal Jordan.

----------


## Zaresh

Seems like this digital venture is going well for them. I though issue 3 was going to be the last one for 3T..

----------


## Sergard

Does this mean something?

Vincenzo Viska Federici

_Doing test pages between issues! ESSENCE! @DCComics #dccomics #essence #redhood #outlaws #comics #drawing #inks_

----------


## Sergard

Talking about bikes, this is from Titans: Titans Together #4 that has been released digitally today.
The story is extremely good. 




Batman: The Adventures continue - Chapter 8 is out too (another enjoyable story), and it seems that the next story arc will finally be about Jason.

----------


## Aahz

> Talking about bikes, this is from Titans: Titans Together #4 that has been released digitally today.
> The story is extremely good.


Didn't knew that there was even a 4th issue, it really annoying that there are no solicitations for these books  :Mad:

----------


## Sergard

> Didn't knew that there was even a 4th issue, it really annoying that there are no solicitations for these books


True. Solicitations would be very helpful for following the digital first comics.
(On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if DC doesn't currently have a very fixed release schedule for their digital first stuff and decides last minute which digital issue is released on which day.) Until then, I'm usually checking the DC App or readDC regularly - which can be very surprising when there's suddenly a new digital first series that I hadn't heard about.

----------


## Restingvoice

> More bikes
> 
> Red Hood and the Outlaws #21 (New52 run)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Red Hood and the Outlaws Annual #1
> 
> ...


Yeah, the second one was the first thing I imagine but feels heavy although I guess he's been having no problem launching with it with ramps. 

The first one I like the model.

Bulletproof glass of course.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

October solicits are out and good news! Lobdell's last issue (Issue 50) isn't labeled as FINAL ISSUE




> RED HOOD: OUTLAW #50
> written by SCOTT LOBDELL
> art by PAOLO PANTALENA
> cover by DEXTER SOY
> variant cover by PHILIP TAN
> ON SALE 10/27/20
> $5.99 US | 48 PAGES | FC | DC
> Jason Todd's downward spiral began when he was murdered by The Joker. But deep in his heart he blamed himself for charging headfirst into deadly danger. His rage and self-loathing caused him to lash out at those around him—keeping friends and family alike at arm's length. Until the Outlaws. First Arsenal and Starfire, and later, Artemis and Bizarro, saw through his defenses. Now it's time to pay it forward to the one person who represents all the mistakes he's made in his own life: Duela Dent. But can he save The Joker's Daughter...when he couldn't even save himself? Don't miss the end of the Outlaw era!



And the final issue of Three Jokers caps it with a beautiful Jason focused cover




> BATMAN: THREE JOKERS #3
> written by GEOFF JOHNS
> art and cover by JASON FABOK
> variant cover by JASON FABOK
> 1:25 variant cover by JASON FABOK
> 1:100 variant cover by JASON FABOK
> Premium variant cover G by JASON FABOK (minimum order 50 copies)
> Premium variant cover H by JASON FABOK (minimum order 50 copies)
> Premium variant cover I by JASON FABOK (minimum order 50 copies)
> ...


Oh and The Adventure Continues #5 is finally about Jason




> BATMAN: THE ADVENTURES CONTINUE #5
> written by PAUL DINI and ALAN BURNETT
> art by TY TEMPLETON
> cover by PAOLO RIVERA and JOE RIVERA
> variant cover by SEAN "CHEEKS" GALLOWAY
> ON SALE 10/6/20
> $3.99 US | 32 PAGES | 5 OF 7 | FC | DC
> Batman is scrambling as he learns the true identity of the man who's been stalking him and the rest of the Bat-Family. As Batman and Alfred reel from the revelation, Tim demands answers! Batman's greatest shame is finally revealed!

----------


## Konja7

> October solicits are out and good news! Lobdell's last issue (Issue 50) isn't labeled as FINAL ISSUE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the final issue of Three Jokers caps it with a beautiful Jason focused cover


The solicitation of Red Hood comic sounds a lot as a final. Considering many comics of the Batfamily are ending, I think Red Hood has one or two months more at most.

I hope it returns after Death Metal.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> The solicitation of Red Hood comic sounds a lot as a final. Considering many comics of the Batfamily are ending, I think Red Hood has one or two months more at most.
> 
> I hope it returns after Death Metal.


Well it is announcing the end of the Outlaw Era, so I wouldn't be surprised if next month goes back to RHATO

Compare it with the Batman & the Outsiders and Batgirl solicits that explicitly says are the finale




> BATMAN AND THE OUTSIDERS #17
> 
> Written by BRYAN HILL
> 
> Art by DEXTER SOY
> 
> cover by TYLER KIRKHAM
> 
> Variant cover by SANFORD GREENE
> ...


Pantalena is also listed as the artist for this issue, making even more mysterious the Essence that Vicsenzo Viska posted on his Twitter

https://twitter.com/VincenzoFederi4/...10015945195521

----------


## Morgoth

I think, this is the end for Outlaws, but Red Hood will remain his series. Just a solo this time.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I think, this is the end for Outlaws, but Red Hood will remain his series. Just a solo this time.


That was my original guess, but then why announce with bells and whistles the end of the Outlaw era that technically, it was about Jason going solo?

----------


## Tony Stark

> October solicits are out and good news! Lobdell's last issue (Issue 50) isn't labeled as FINAL ISSUE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the final issue of Three Jokers caps it with a beautiful Jason focused cover
> 
> 
> 
> Oh and The Adventure Continues #5 is finally about Jason


This is epic for Jason. I gotta get all of these. I don't know how I'm going to do it money wise, but I'll think of something lol.

----------


## Zaresh

> October solicits are out and good news! Lobdell's last issue (Issue 50) isn't labeled as FINAL ISSUE
> 
> 
> And the final issue of Three Jokers caps it with a beautiful Jason focused cover
> 
> Oh and The Adventure Continues #5 is finally about Jason


Seems like a promising month. I'm absolutely looking forward to it. October is my favourite month, after all  :Big Grin:

----------


## Sergard

> October solicits are out and good news! Lobdell's last issue (Issue 50) isn't labeled as FINAL ISSUE


Well, THAT is a surprise (especially since Dexter Soy confirmed that #50 is the final issue).
And so is Duela Dent's appearance. That's a little out of the blue but I'm open-minded. 





> And the final issue of Three Jokers caps it with a beautiful Jason focused cover


Fabok did great work on all the covers. They all look phenomenal. 
And Jason is wearing a mask under the helmet, of course. Once an icon, always an icon.  :Wink: 






> Oh and The Adventure Continues #5 is finally about Jason


Nice cover. Although I'm probably going to wait for the trade since I'm already buying the digitally released chapters.






> Well it is announcing the end of the Outlaw Era, so I wouldn't be surprised if next month goes back to RHATO
> 
> Compare it with the Batman & the Outsiders and Batgirl solicits that explicitly says are the finale
> 
> 
> 
> Pantalena is also listed as the artist for this issue, making even more mysterious the Essence that Vicsenzo Viska posted on his Twitter
> 
> https://twitter.com/VincenzoFederi4/...10015945195521


I'm sad that BatO ends with #17. That's way too soon. 
But it seems like Dexter Soy is already going to work on a new project (source).


If I remember correctly, the two WIPs by Travis Mercer (work 1 and work 2) haven't been shown in any issue yet either.

----------


## RedBird

> Talking about bikes, this is from Titans: Titans Together #4 that has been released digitally today.
> The story is extremely good.


The series is surprisingly decent, I honestly didn't expect to get much out of it. It's overall pretty simplistic, but darn, after so many Titans/Teen Titans series becoming frustratingly dull or just frustrating in general, I'll take what I can get. Characters more or less being in-character, and friendly to each other and working as a team? Yes please.

Hopefully the series keeps going and keeping up the playful and enjoyable momentum it has.




> Batman: The Adventures continue - Chapter 8 is out too (another enjoyable story), and it seems that the next story arc will finally be about Jason.


Interesting, I wonder what the backstory for this Jason will be.

----------


## Restingvoice

tumblr_90d06d74bec51768cf6b1167aa1a9066_81028036_1280.jpg

In the mean time do we call this costume DiscoHood or what XD

----------


## RedBird

Also this is some peculiar news, I thought for sure all the books were ending and relaunching around the same time.

So does anyone suppose this is just an error, or is issue 50 really not the end for RHATO?
Will the book be relaunched anyway under a new title, similar to how it transitioned between RHATO and Red Hood: Outlaw?


Speaking of a relaunch, are there any creative teams people are hoping for?

----------


## RedBird

> Attachment 98874
> 
> In the mean time do we call this costume DiscoHood or what XD


I knew that seam on the Red Hood outfit was always meant to be a zipper  :Stick Out Tongue: 

Also, Hmm, maybe, but, Disco was technically a 70s trend wasn't it, way before Jason ever even existed. 

HOWEVER, funny enough, whilst the popped collar has existed for a while, it became a major and more widely known fashion statement by the 80s, (Jason's Robin era) and had a major resurgence in the early 2000s, (Jason's early Red Hood era).

So I guess it's still kinda perfect. No clue what to name it though sorry. I trust the collective fandom will come up with something though. XD

----------


## redmax99

> I knew that seam on the Red Hood outfit was always meant to be a zipper 
> 
> Also, Hmm, maybe, but, Disco was technically a 70s trend wasn't it, way before Jason ever even existed. 
> 
> HOWEVER, funny enough, whilst the popped collar has existed for a while, it became a major and more widely known fashion statement by the 80s, (Jason's Robin era) and had a major resurgence in the early 2000s, (Jason's early Red Hood era).
> 
> So I guess it's still kinda perfect. No clue what to name it though sorry. I trust the collective fandom will come up with something though. XD


i mean it is dick prototype suit so disco never out the question

----------


## RedBird

> i mean it is dick prototype suit so disco never out the question


I thought that was the New52 suit? 

Regardless, in addition to the popped collar, I think it's just funny that for whatever reason, along with the jacket, the sleeves of Jason's Red Bat outfit just keep getting shorter and shorter.

First it was just exposed wrists, now we're up to the shoulders, pretty soon it's all gonna loop back to his mortal kombat gear. XD

EDIT: Speaking of suits though, I really really hope Jason goes back to his first Rebirth suit. That one was so good.

----------


## sifighter

> Also this is some peculiar news, I thought for sure all the books were ending and relaunching around the same time.
> 
> So does anyone suppose this is just an error, or is issue 50 really not the end for RHATO?
> Will the book be relaunched anyway under a new title, similar to how it transitioned between RHATO and Red Hood: Outlaw?
> 
> 
> Speaking of a relaunch, are there any creative teams people are hoping for?


If he doesnt end up writing Nightwing Id suggest Joshua Williamson for Jasons next ongoing. Im thinking about his image series like Nailbiter and Birthright that show the creative potential he can show when it comes to Jasons level of violence and his runs on Flash and Batman/Superman shows me that he can do well with playing with DCs concepts.

----------


## Zaresh

> Also this is some peculiar news, I thought for sure all the books were ending and relaunching around the same time.
> 
> So does anyone suppose this is just an error, or is issue 50 really not the end for RHATO?
> Will the book be relaunched anyway under a new title, similar to how it transitioned between RHATO and Red Hood: Outlaw?
> 
> 
> Speaking of a relaunch, are there any creative teams people are hoping for?


I can see three possibilities:
It is just an error and the book is being canned after #50.The book is going to keep going, but under a different name. Has happened before.Issue #51 is going to be done by the new team as some sort of sneak peek to what's to come in the nearest future.

----------


## Sergard

> The series is surprisingly decent, I honestly didn't expect to get much out of it. It's overall pretty simplistic, but darn, after so many Titans/Teen Titans series becoming frustratingly dull or just frustrating in general, I'll take what I can get. Characters more or less being in-character, and friendly to each other and working as a team? Yes please.
> 
> Hopefully the series keeps going and keeping up the playful and enjoyable momentum it has.
> [...]


Titans: Titans Together surely is a breath of fresh air - and it definitely profits from being its own continuity/alternate universe (and only costing 0,99$ the issue also helps).
The Digital First line in general is a breath of fresh air - and I think it's well liked by readers - well, by readers who know about the line. DC isn't really promoting it. (For example, DC released "Shazam!: Lightning Strikes #1" yesterday. I wasn't aware that Shazam was getting a Digital first comic.)

Here's a fanart that was inspired by Gotham Nights #12.

@gothamtwinks








> [...]
> 
> Speaking of a relaunch, are there any creative teams people are hoping for?


Steve Orlando is very high on my list. His "Reunion" story in Gotham Nights was awesome.
But otherwise I'd probably prefer some new blood with fresh ideas over already established writers.

Regarding artists, I want Dexter Soy and Veronica Gandini back. If you have an artist like Soy who loves the character and is also loved by the fan-base, then why would you choose someone else?
Apart from that, I also enjoyed Priscilla Petraites style in "Reunion". Nick Robles has a special place in my heart too because he likes to draw Jason. But he's currently drawing The Dreaming: Waking Hours and his style is perfect for that kind of story. But if he's ever available for a Red Hood annual or generally as a guest artist for one issue - hell yeah!





> I knew that seam on the Red Hood outfit was always meant to be a zipper 
> 
> Also, Hmm, maybe, but, Disco was technically a 70s trend wasn't it, way before Jason ever even existed. 
> 
> HOWEVER, funny enough, whilst the popped collar has existed for a while, it became a major and more widely known fashion statement by the 80s, (Jason's Robin era) and had a major resurgence in the early 2000s, (Jason's early Red Hood era).
> 
> So I guess it's still kinda perfect. No clue what to name it though sorry. I trust the collective fandom will come up with something though. XD


I've never paid any attention to the seam. I wasn't aware that it's supposed to be a zipper. But we have never seen Jason change clothes, as far as  I can remember - at least not for his original Rebirth outfit. There was a change of clothes scene in #26 for his new Outlaw outfit.

My first association with Jason's look in Titans: Titans Together #4 was John Travolta in Grease, probably because of the tight shirt and the short sleeves.

I haven't seen a name for that look yet but there are already fanarts. (although they are mostly on the NSFW side *cough*)
Here's for example a redraw (source):







> If he doesnt end up writing Nightwing Id suggest Joshua Williamson for Jasons next ongoing. Im thinking about his image series like Nailbiter and Birthright that show the creative potential he can show when it comes to Jasons level of violence and his runs on Flash and Batman/Superman shows me that he can do well with playing with DCs concepts.


Williamson would be fun if Godspeed could at least make a guest-appearance for an arc. But I don't think that's an option anymore.




> I can see three possibilities:
> It is just an error and the book is being canned after #50.The book is going to keep going, but under a different name. Has happened before.*Issue #51 is going to be done by the new team as some sort of sneak peek to what's to come in the nearest future.*


That's what I would bet my money on.

----------


## Zaresh

I'm pretty sure that turning up the collar of your shirt, like how some people did in the 70's, has a name, at least in Spanish. But I can't remember which one was for my life.

----------


## Jackalope89

"popped collars" is all I've ever heard it called.

----------


## Sergard

Jason's Red Hood helmet is on the cover of Detective Comics #1029 - together with the masks of the rest of the batfamily, the Outsiders and - as the cover artist Kenneth Rocafort confirmed - Manhunter. But it's very, very unlikely that he'll have an appearance in the issue. The solicitation doesn't even mention the strange dude on the cover that looks like he's completely covered in tinfoil.








> ETECTIVE COMICS #1029
> written by PETER J. TOMASI
> art and cover by KENNETH ROCAFORT
> card stock variant cover by LEE BERMEJO
> ON SALE 10/27/20
> $3.99 US | 32 PAGES | FC | DC
> CARD STOCK VARIANT COVER $4.99 US
> After the City of Bane, the Riddler's takeover, The Joker War, and more, the people of Gotham City have had enough. The world is changing for Bruce Wayne, and the question he must ask himself is: What role does the Batman have in a city that rejects him? As the year barrels forward into what will become a turning point for the Dark Knight, Batman must grapple with the very citizens he has sworn to protect...while a familiar face looms large as a new threat on the horizon: Damian Wayne!

----------


## Sergard

That's my kind of humor.

artist: M-Alejandrita

----------


## Sergard

(continuation)

----------


## Katana500

> Titans: Titans Together surely is a breath of fresh air - and it definitely profits from being its own continuity/alternate universe (and only costing 0,99$ the issue also helps).
> The Digital First line in general is a breath of fresh air - and I think it's well liked by readers - well, by readers who know about the line. DC isn't really promoting it. (For example, DC released "Shazam!: Lightning Strikes #1" yesterday. I wasn't aware that Shazam was getting a Digital first comic.)
> 
> Here's a fanart that was inspired by Gotham Nights #12.
> 
> @gothamtwinks


Awesome art! Makes me want to see the whole Robin gang together more. 




> Jason's Red Hood helmet is on the cover of Detective Comics #1029 - together with the masks of the rest of the batfamily, the Outsiders and - as the cover artist Kenneth Rocafort confirmed - Manhunter. But it's very, very unlikely that he'll have an appearance in the issue. The solicitation doesn't even mention the strange dude on the cover that looks like he's completely covered in tinfoil.


Can anyone identify all the masks? A few are obvious like Red Hood! But some I have no idea!

----------


## redmax99

> Awesome art! Makes me want to see the whole Robin gang together more. 
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone identify all the masks? A few are obvious like Red Hood! But some I have no idea!


duke- signal yellow black helmet 
cass-orphan below batgirl
helena-huntress above redhood
katana beside redhood
jefferson-blacklighting next to manhunter and below nightwing mask
robin mask is up top, batwoman is below him, tim mask is above katana next to jason its in the shadow barley visible and batgirl helmet is above cass

----------


## Katana500

> duke- signal yellow black helmet 
> cass-orphan below batgirl
> helena-huntress above redhood
> katana beside redhood
> jefferson-blacklighting next to manhunter and below nightwing mask
> robin mask is up top, batwoman is below him, tim mask is above katana next to jason its in the shadow barley visible and batgirl helmet is above cass


impressive! thank you! I was wondering about a few of those!

----------


## Restingvoice

Where is Steph's mask and who are the extra dominoes below?

----------


## Aahz

> Can anyone identify all the masks? A few are obvious like Red Hood! But some I have no idea!


Going line by line
Robin
Batgirl and Huntress
Orphan, Batwoman and "Drake" ???
Nightwing and Red Hood
??? (No idea about the Red Mask, doesn't really look like Flamebird, maybe Katanas classic mask), Black Lightning, Batman, Signal, Katana
??? ??? (maybe an old Robin masks ?)

The major ones missing are Spoiler, Catwoman, Batwing and Azrael.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Going line by line
> Robin
> Batgirl and Huntress
> Orphan, Batwoman and ??? (maybe an old Robin mask or "Drake" ?)
> Nightwing and Red Hood
> ??? (No idea about the Red Mask, doesn't really look like Flamebird), Black Lightning, Batman, Signal, Katana
> ??? ??? (maybe an old Robin masks ?)
> 
> The major ones missing are Spoiler, Catwoman, Batwing and Azrael.


Red is Manhunter

Edit: Sorry I thought this is a different thread

----------


## Jackalope89

> (continuation)


lol, Donna went just a bit too hard on the boys.

----------


## Sergard

Jason Fabok

_"last night I read a "close to final" version of #ThreeJokers Book 1 and I was smiling ear to ear. We went back and made a few more tweaks and changes...and I have to say that Geoff really peels back some incredible layers on Jason Todd, his past and his character. #redhood #joker"_





And from the comment section:

Jason Fabok Twitter 2020-07-19.jpg

----------


## Sergard

Jason Fabok

_"Updated Batman: Three Jokers cover checklist!  We still have the 1:25 and 1:100 covers to reveal.  But here are all the main covers and the premium variants.  Gotta Collect them all! Call your local comic shop to pre-order today. #batman #joker #dccomics @DCComics"_




The main Joker covers were chosen according to the story. The hero covers weren't.

Jason Fabok

_"The jokers coincide with the issues they are on the covers of, but the heroes where chosen mostly because I liked the way it looked."_


There's also apparently a method to the madness of the premium variant cover order.

source

Someone asked: _"Is the idea that the looks for each issue are looks for "that" joker on the main cover? Or just all his looks? Thank you!"_

Fabok's answer: _"No. There's a method as to how I chose the order, but its loose and I won't talk about it until later"_

----------


## Zaresh

Lets try  :Big Grin: 

For the first row, you have him holding the crowbar (him killing Robin had an impact), then him as the one behind the Original Red hood, him with a jokerized fish and him with a bomb. All things done by Joker and making him the infamous figure he is. Or maybe... Maybe they're hits in Joker's life as a criminal, his evolution. The first one is the last one of that row. It all starts in Ace Chemicals (for this version, at least) as the former Red Hood, then he starts with his venom, then he starts using bombs, and ends killing someone by hand (Jason).

The second and third row... I can't figure out any pattern. But the third one is interesting. You can see what seems to be a film maker Joker, a photographer Joker, a comedian pre-Joker... and a scarred/burnt Joker with an axe. What the heck.

Edit: Oh, wait.
The second row, if you look at it a bit too much weird, they all seem to nod to some psychos/madmen in movies. I'm going to bet and say: Hannibal Lecter, Jack from the Shinning, some guy from A Clockwork Orange, and the Joker from Burton's Batman.
Yeah, honestly, I'm drawing blank with the second row.

Edit 2: ah, right. I know some of those Jokers are meant to be "classic" or "modern" Jokers. But I'm guessing Fabok draw them and grouped them together for certain reason.

----------


## Sergard

I'm still confused. There are three Jokers - crowbar Joker (Death in the family), receding hairline Joker (?) and peek-a-boo Joker (Killing Joke). Okay.
And then there are the premium variants. And every variant is one of those three Jokers. Okay.
But according to the comment by Fabok, the Jokers on the premium variants don't necessarily have to correspond to the Joker on the main cover, right?
So just because - for example - crowbar Joker is on the main cover, doesn't mean that all of the premium variants Jokers - Red Hood Joker, fishy Joker and bomb Joker - need to be the same Joker as crowbar Joker.

Thus, there's a possibility that Red Hood Joker and crowbar Joker are not the same person?

----------


## Zaresh

> I'm still confused. There are three Jokers - crowbar Joker (Death in the family), receding hairline Joker (?) and peek-a-boo Joker (Killing Joke). Okay.
> And then there are the premium variants. And every variant is one of those three Jokers. Okay.
> But according to the comment by Fabok, the Jokers on the premium variants don't necessarily have to correspond to the Joker on the main cover, right?
> So just because - for example - crowbar Joker is on the main cover, doesn't mean that all of the premium variants Jokers - Red Hood Joker, fishy Joker and bomb Joker - need to be the same Joker as crowbar Joker.
> 
> Thus, there's a possibility that Red Hood Joker and crowbar Joker are not the same person?


No idea. Honestly, going by what we know, and that the ones that don't have to do with what happens with the book at all are the hero covers, I think only can be sure that the first issue is about Jason, the second one about Bruce, and the third one about Barbara.

----------


## Sergard

> No idea. Honestly, going by what we know, and that the ones that don't have to do with what happens with the book at all are the hero covers, *I think only can be sure that the first issue is about Jason, the second one about Bruce, and the third one about Barbara.*


Why can we be sure about this? Because of the Joker order on the main covers?




Here are two _Batman: The Adventures continue_ fanarts.

nockuth




sdimo

----------


## Jackalope89

Kind of funny, that though the white streak is quite popular for the main series for Jason, it only ever appeared on Clayface posing as Jason. Meanwhile, Dini finally gets to put Jason in the DCAU, and actually gives him the white streak. 

I do wonder what Jason's overall plan will be in BTAC. We can surmise at least a little bit of Under the Red Hood will happen, but also some key differences. Like no Black Mask to topple and not setting up his own criminal empire in Gotham.

----------


## Zaresh

> Why can we be sure about this? Because of the Joker order on the main covers?


Because how thematic those Jokers are.
Maybe I'm not sure anymore.

The first row can fit pretty well with Jason's story overall. Well, three of them at least. But apparently, the second one has a cover inspired by A Death in the Family (the one with the monocle). I don't know anymore...

The last row has two Jokers that had to do with The Killing Joke: the main cover and one of the variants.

----------


## Jackalope89

Here's to hoping Jason gets to off the guy that tortured him and blew him up.

----------


## Sergard

Is there some kind of meaning behind the ":33" on the cover? (Or is this supposed to be some strange smiley?)




The number isn't shown on the countdown in Death in the family.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

So much for "the incredible layers" that Johns is giving to Jason





> “He’s incredibly damaged from the events that have occurred. And he wasn’t exactly on the most steady ground beforehand.”— Geoff Johns
> 
> https://twitter.com/thedcnation/stat...50964817600513


See, this is precisely why seeing Jason wearing an oversized Robin costume in Three Jokers raised red flags for me. It makes evident Fabok and Johns don't see Jason as someone able to grow and move forward from the tragic events of DOTF, but only as someone that is stuck there being defined and possibly obsessed by it.

----------


## Sergard

DC Nation

_Some emotional and physical scars dont heal. This is a story of how The Joker takes advantage of that.@geoffjohns

Batman: Three Jokers #1 by Geoff Johns, @JasonFabok, and @bdanderson13 is on sale August 25._




Jason Fabok

_"DC nation showed off a sneak peak at one of our intro pages to Batman: Three Jokers Book 1.  The entire story is about the scars we all struggle with...some emotional and some physical.  Here's my take on Bruce's physical scars, inspired by the classic image from Alex Ross."_

Here's the referenced artwork by Alex Ross:




From the comment section:

Jason Fabok

_"[...]Our thought with Three Jokers is that ALL of DC's 85+ year history is up for play.  So we were less interested in telling a story that fits with current continuity and instead wanted to tell the best, self contained story as possible.
[...]
We think of it as Canon as we believe we are delivering a story that will have impact across the DC universe.  But in the end, that's up to DC and the fan response.  We wanted it to feel "classic" in the sense that if you pick it up in 20 years, it still feels relevant.
[...]
it's one story that takes place is the present."_

And this:

Question: _"I have a question Mr. Fabok. Do you think with the revealing of these 3 jokers, can inspire to do new Batman stories as consequences of what'll see, for the DC Black Label comics?"_

Jason Fabok: _"I hope.  We end the series with some pretty cool revelations that could lead into other books by either us, or other teams  in future years who may want to tackle the threads."_

----------


## Zaresh

I hate the word "damaged", as much as I hate the word "broken". Nah, maybe more.

See, writers: characters are people, and people are "hurt". Things are "damaged" or "broken"; people are "hurt".

Goddammit.
Sometimes I wonder if people don't look into sensible speech for traumatised people when they deal with these subjects or what?

I'm not being whinny here; I'm just amazed that they keep describing characters in such terms when they're actually writing about people with these backgrounds.

Someone who has to deal with similar stuff may read these words, and think: "Oh, so I'm damaged." Christ.

I don't mean to sound hard or even criticise, just in case. But.... But...

----------


## Konja7

> So much for "the incredible layers" that Johns is giving to Jason
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See, this is precisely why seeing Jason wearing an oversized Robin costume in Three Jokers raised red flags for me. It makes evident Fabok and Johns don't see Jason as someone able to grow and move forward from the tragic events of DOTF, but only as someone that is stuck there being defined and possibly obsessed by it.


Unfortunately, I think that's the idea DC has for Jason.

It doesn't matter if he grows and moves forwarrd from DTOF in a story (or his solo), DC and new writers will always return to this situation.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I guess we should count ourselves lucky that Three Jokers went from "it will shape the Batman corner universe from years to come" to "it's a self contained story that we hope will inspire others to pick up the seeds we planted on it"

----------


## Sergard

Jason Fabok

_"Red Hood has become a standout character for me while going through this journey with him.  Ive come to really like him as a character.  We go on a very deep dive into his past, his scars and his relationship with Batman.  Here's a sneak peek from Batman: Three Jokers Book 1."_

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Fabok also said that the series wouldn't have any variant covers because they wanted to be able to stand on its own, so I'm going to take anything he says with a truckload of salt.

----------


## TheCape

I wasn't expecting much anyway, Johns take on Batman has always been unremarkable.

----------


## Zaresh

I think it still could be a good read. We all know how these promos are usually dealt with, and what kind of words make for impacting headlines. And much like with solicits, the final product can be different than what's been told.

I'm still wary, kinda expecting, that Jason is going to be "the one who healed wrong" (rolling eyes) because, eh, you're not going to show under a bad light _royals_ (primary, mainstream characters) like Babs or Bruce (specially Barbara). But, I dunno. 

Despite that... And despite "damaged" characters (rolls eyes).

Johns, for me, has so far been a nice read, so I'm waiting for the actual book to arrive and see how it turns out.

----------


## TheCape

> I think it still could be a good read. We all know how these promos are usually dealt with, and what kind of words make for impacting headlines. And much like with solicits, the final product can be different than what's been told.
> 
> I'm still wary, kinda expecting, that Jason is going to be "the one who healed wrong" (rolling eyes) because, eh, you're not going to show under a bad light _royals_ (primary, mainstream characters) like Babs or Bruce (specially Barbara). But, I dunno. 
> 
> Despite that... And despite "damaged" characters (rolls eyes).
> 
> Johns, for me, has so far been a nice read, so I'm waiting for the actual book to arrive and see how it turns out.


Johns is fine most of the time, he knows how to make an entertaining and epic story, and is good enougth in the emotional pathos deparment to make you care about what is happening, so i expect some cool moments (plus Fabok artwork is gonna help a lot there), but his charactherization of the bat-clan is not that great, is not exactly awfull but it never has impressed me.

----------


## Jackalope89

Yeah. I've enjoyed most of Johns' stuff (and the Stargirl series is making me want to look into his run on the comics), but this doesn't excite me that much. I'll still check it out, as I have enjoyed most of what Johns did during Rebirth (Justice League just never clicked right, beyond the one shots back then).

----------


## Sergard

Finalized version of the Red Hood: Outlaw #47 cover

----------


## Sergard

Batman: The Adventures Continue (2020-) #9
Digital Release date: July 30 2020

"Batman is hot on the trail of the man who's been watching him for months, and he can't believe who it is. Meanwhile, someone launches an assault on the clown prince of crime, the Joker!"

----------


## Zaresh

> Batman: The Adventures Continue (2020-) #9
> Digital Release date: July 30 2020
> 
> "Batman is hot on the trail of the man who's been watching him for months, and he can't believe who it is. Meanwhile, someone launches an assault on the clown prince of crime, the Joker!"


Going by the cover, I guess Jason ends the story as an ally, even if he's somewhat antagonistic. Or straight antagonistic for a while. Kind of like in AK, but softer, I guess.
Also, red batarangs. I like them.

----------


## Rise

So, Lobdell describing Jason as ""a tragically flawed man in search of redemption" is fine and dandy, but Johns saying that Jason was damaged from his past and suddenly there's a problem? I'm admittedly confused, but whatever. 

Anyway, I'm curious to see what Johns and Dini are planning for Jason in their books. If they end up being good, good for me. If not, it's not the end of the world

----------


## Swallowtail

> So, Lobdell describing Jason as ""a tragically flawed man in search of redemption" is fine and dandy, but Johns saying that Jason was damaged from his past and suddenly there's a problem? I'm admittedly confused, but whatever. 
> 
> Anyway, I'm curious to see what Johns and Dini are planning for Jason in their books. If they end up being good, good for me. If not, it's not the end of the world


I would say that Lobdell saying that was profoundly more awful because he was trying to use it to equate his own real world behaviours with the crimes of a fictional teenage superhero who was resurrected by retcon punch.

Arguing that Red Hood isnt damaged does seem a bit of a quibble. This is my/your/his damage is pretty benign vernacular. Nevertheless, would Johns be my usual first pick for a nuanced depiction of trauma...probably not.

----------


## Zaresh

> So, Lobdell describing Jason as ""a tragically flawed man in search of redemption" is fine and dandy, but Johns saying that Jason was damaged from his past and suddenly there's a problem? I'm admittedly confused, but whatever. 
> 
> Anyway, I'm curious to see what Johns and Dini are planning for Jason in their books. If they end up being good, good for me. If not, it's not the end of the world


My problem isn't with the statement of Jason having issues and problems, as much as what the word choice implies.
An example of what I mean. This is a personal issue, but it feels like when someone tells me that I'm a "minusválida" and not a "discapacitada". The first one means that I'm less worthy, the second one, that I have some disability. Both were and are used here regularly by our speakers; but one has certain connotations that, even when the speaker isn't aware, leave a trail behind and a weight to it ("discapacitada" too, but it weighs less. It's part of the reason why they're using "diversidad funcional" so much nowadays).
This is a personal view of me, but I wouldn't say that someone who has suffered and still suffers heavy trauma (and has problems and behaves in a certain way because ofhis life experiences) is "damaged". First, because like I said, we're talking about a character meant to be a human being. This use of that word puts him to the same level of a thing. Secondly, because it implies that he's not whole, or it needs a "fix" to be right. You don't fix people either. People can heal (or not), can bear scars (which is something they use in other tweets, I think); but they can't be fixed. Thinks are fixed, not people. People aren't a thing that need to be "a certain way" to be "alright".
I don't have a problem with Jason being "tragically flawed" because people are flawed. A flaw can be applied to a character, unlike damage. A flaw is an imperfection or weakness that, yeah, may imply that there's such a think as perfection there; but not as a natural, usual state of things. And he's tragically flawed, I guess, because those flaws work against Jason himself (eh, Lobdell, much too dramatic here, but whatever).

I don't know if it's because I'm not a native and my own background, but it didn't sound nice. I guess it doesn't sound wrong for native ears.

There's the chance that I AM being whinny, too. Not the most important issue to change or complain about out there. And I'm going to read this book anyways because I expect it to be a nice read.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> So, Lobdell describing Jason as ""a tragically flawed man in search of redemption" is fine and dandy, but Johns saying that Jason was damaged from his past and suddenly there's a problem? I'm admittedly confused, but whatever. 
> 
> Anyway, I'm curious to see what Johns and Dini are planning for Jason in their books. If they end up being good, good for me. If not, it's not the end of the world


The word "Damaged" when used to describe someone has the implication that the person in question has serious issues that won't heal no matter what and that is the only notable thing about them. Whereas saying "a tragically flawed man in search of redemption" has the implication that is not only aware of their shortcomings but that is actively working to get better. Big difference. 

As Johns, he had a fantastic run years ago where he wrote powerful stories that truly understood and respected the characters, taking elements from the work of previous writers into a cohesive whole that helped the characters to move forward. But since Darkseid War his work has become shallow, only going for the spectacle, with plotlines that either go nowhere or have unsatisfying resolutions and with a poor understanding about the characters he's writing, Doomsday Clock is by far his worst offender of this. 


More unlettered preview pages





https://www.gamesradar.com/check-out...-three-jokers/

More pages at the link but those don't focus on Jason so whatever.

----------


## Zaresh

That's some pretty-as-hell art. Both pencils and colours.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Nightwing vs Red Hood 2 pack releasing from Mcfarlane Toys this fall.



Unclear at the moment if Jason will get a solo release down the line, but I can't why it wouldn't.

----------


## Sergard

Edit: Dark was faster ;-)

The Jason figure looks gooooood.  :Big Grin: 




Jason Fabok

_"Here is an updated checklist from DC with all of the cover for Batman: Three Jokers.  21 in all.  Check out those insane 1:25 NEON covers. They will be printed using 5th color and spot gloss!!! They are incredible.  Designed by @DarranRobinson3"_



I wasn't aware that the hero covers are variants. I thought that they were also considered main covers.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Those are the regular variants that every DC book gets since the start of Rebirth.

----------


## sifighter

I’ll be honest, I like the Three Jokers Uniform more then his current half mask look, I recognize that yes it looks like a robin outfit but I like the idea that Jason worked in his old Robin look to his Red Hood suit. It feels like something Jason could do, and besides it’s not to different to me at least when he had a red bat on his chest.

Also I’m interested in Three Jokers, that “damaged” comment means nothing to me but a word used for marketing. As someone who has read Geoff Johns for years I trust him as a writer and expect the overall story to be good, he’s written a bunch of stuff I like including Doomsday Clock.

----------


## the illustrious mr. kenway

By "damaged" I think Johns is referring to the potential he might've went through after being killed by the Joker. Even after coming back from the dead, he could some mental scars that's haven't been dealt with. Which is why both he and Barbara are chosen for this particular story- they have very specific grievances for the Joker.

I don't think it contradicts Lobdell's statement, its just another aspect of his character.

PS. I like Fabok's take on Jason's design.

----------


## RedBird

Those Three Jokers pages look gorgeous, I'm really looking forward to it.
And that Red Hood figure looks great, I love the helmet. The twin pack is a bonus for me, I just wish the Nightwing was blue instead.

On a side note, after seeing it in yet another figure, and in Gotham Nights, and in Titans Together, and in DCEASED unkillables, and somewhat in Batman The Adventure Continues, can we finally go back to the first Red Hood Rebirth outfit? It was sooo good, it deserves to stick around for a lot longer than it had.

----------


## Zaresh

> Those Three Jokers pages look gorgeous, I'm really looking forward to it.
> And that Red Hood figure looks great, I love the helmet. The twin pack is a bonus for me, I just wish the Nightwing was blue instead.
> 
> On a side note, after seeing it in yet another figure, and in Gotham Nights, and in Titans Together, and in DCEASED unkillables, and somewhat in Batman The Adventure Continues, can we finally go back to the first Red Hood Rebirth outfit? It was sooo good, it deserves to stick around for a lot longer than it had.


It's also similar to his UtRH movie design. It's his by default design, and a really good one. I'm hoping that he will go back to it soon, to be honest. I wouldn't be against a black jacket and a white t-shirt either, though. But I guess the best thing to do is going back to the brown from time to time.

Nightwing is blue. Every time I see red there, I mentally sneeze.

----------


## Sergard

Paolo Pantalena (old page from the Deathstroke 2014 run, issue 16)

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Jason's Three Jokers card

----------


## Sergard

Jason will appear in Batman #100 alongside other batfamily members.

source: DCConnect #3, page 7 (sneak peek)

----------


## Robotman

If Jason has the occasional interaction with the Batfamily that’s ok, but I don’t think he should ever been super close with them. He should always be the outcast (Outlaw?) who is not totally averse to using lethal force.

----------


## Zaresh

> If Jason has the occasional interaction with the Batfamily that’s ok, but I don’t think he should ever been super close with them. He should always be the outcast (Outlaw?) who is not totally averse to using lethal force.


Hmmm...

What about "outsider"?
Outcast means he's not accepted by any of them.
Outlaw is just that he doesn't follow law, right? Vigilantism is all the same, beyond our laws, I think. Batman and Nightwing, and Robin, and Batgirl, are all vigilantes, aren't they?

----------


## TheCape

> Jason's Three Jokers card


Wait...does he have a Robin costume inside his coat?

----------


## Frontier

> Wait...does he have a Robin costume inside his coat?


I think it's just supposed to be evocative of the Robin shirt.

----------


## Robotman

> Wait...does he have a Robin costume inside his coat?


It seems like it. In one of the preview pages you can see that his belt has an ‘R’ on it. It’s the panel where he’s getting tackled.

Also, he’s wearing the Robin mask.

----------


## Zaresh

> I think it's just supposed to be evocative of the Robin shirt.


It's a tunic-like red vest, I think.

----------


## charliehustle415

Did y'all see the new MAFEX Hush figure - straight fire




https://www.bigbadtoystore.com/Produ...Details/127795

----------


## Robotman

> Did y'all see the new MAFEX Hush figure - straight fire
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.bigbadtoystore.com/Produ...Details/127795


I really wish they would add the white streak to Jason’s hair in the every story. It looks cool and it’s a great way to tell him apart from Grayson and Tim.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Yes, he is wearing an adult-sized Robin costume just in red. And that is why I hate that costume. Remember how Earth-2 Grayson is considered lesser than E1/E0 Dick because he could never outgrow the Robin identity and become his own man? Same concept.

----------


## Frontier

Visually I don't automatically link it to the Robin look but think it's a nice enough shout-out without being too in your face about it and being a cool look. 

But that's just me.

----------


## redmax99

the R literally is his symbol for red hood said it on  twitter 2 years ago when some one asked him about it he thought it would be fun for him to have his own symbol

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

The costume is nearly identical to Tim's costume back in the 90's


And that R logo is identical to the one in the classic Robin costume, how can that stand Red Hood when it doesn't have any difference? At least they added another RR to Tim's costume when he was supposed to go by Red Robin at the start of Tynion's Detective run. 


Jason already has his own symbol as Red Hood now, anyways

----------


## Korath

> Yes, he is wearing an adult-sized Robin costume just in red. And that is why I hate that costume. Remember how Earth-2 Grayson is considered lesser than E1/E0 Dick because he could never outgrow the Robin identity and become his own man? Same concept.


It isn't in itself a bad costume.

But if the choice is between it and the current one, I'll always favor the current one.

----------


## Robotman

> The costume is nearly identical to Tim's costume back in the 90's
> 
> 
> And that R logo is identical to the one in the classic Robin costume, how can that stand Red Hood when it doesn't have any difference? At least they added another RR to Tim's costume when he was supposed to go by Red Robin at the start of Tynion's Detective run. 
> 
> 
> Jason already has his own symbol as Red Hood now, anyways


I actually dislike the red Bat symbol. Nightwing has his own symbol but Jason just gets a red version of Bruce’s symbol? If he had “Bat” in his name it would work but he doesn’t. I like the one he currently has. The one that looks like a red mask. It still has a similarity to Batman’s symbol, has a call back to his time as Robin, but goes along with the name Red Hood.

----------


## charliehustle415

> I really wish they would add the white streak to Jasons hair in the every story. It looks cool and its a great way to tell him apart from Grayson and Tim.


I totally agree, and you can explain it by saying it came from the Lazarus Pit. 

But, I wonder if the execs think it will make him look aged up

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I actually dislike the red Bat symbol. Nightwing has his own symbol but Jason just gets a red version of Bruce’s symbol? If he had “Bat” in his name it would work but he doesn’t. I like the one he currently has. The one that looks like a red mask. It still has a similarity to Batman’s symbol, has a call back to his time as Robin, but goes along with the name Red Hood.


The current one is just dumb and it makes no sense, it looks like an angry face. And Jason having a red bat it makes sense, he's the one who got most influenced and attached to Bruce.

Kind of a moot point to discuss anyway, since every single piece of merch and apparition outside comics has Jason sporting the red bat.

And personally, I hate the white streak. I see it as a lazy shorthand to try and make a character look cool, and it narratively doesn't make sense either, we've seen many, many, _many_ people use the Lazarus pits over the years and no one has ever come out from them with white streaks of hair, why Jason would be any different? And let's not forget that the white streak was never a thing on the original Under the Red Hood, the origin in the Batman Annual 25, Lost Days or Winnick's original concept for Jason.

----------


## Restingvoice

They should just go with a red colored H for his logo. Red H. Red Hood. Simple.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> They should just go with a red colored H for his logo. Red H. Red Hood. Simple.


That's Hush logo.

----------


## Restingvoice

> That's Hush logo.


Gosh dammit. I knew I got that idea from somewhere

----------


## redmax99

> The costume is nearly identical to Tim's costume back in the 90's
> 
> 
> And that R logo is identical to the one in the classic Robin costume, how can that stand Red Hood when it doesn't have any difference? At least they added another RR to Tim's costume when he was supposed to go by Red Robin at the start of Tynion's Detective run. 
> 
> 
> Jason already has his own symbol as Red Hood now, anyways


it could be identical all it want to Jason Fabok said it stand for red hood. whats wrong with an artist making up his own costume for a character when its quasi not in continuity anyway it's a stand alone project that's been in production for years. not to mention why do everyone have a problem with the final costume now when the concept art been on different sites since summer of 2018 for everyone to see.

----------


## Zaresh

Guuuuuys.

Why using any logo at all? Put him in a white t-shirt or vest or underarmour, whatever; and let the blood colour it after he's done some work. It helps with the dramatics and it's cool in a very hardboiled way.

Or use a red wolf-fox-coyote head, because tods and little ridding red hood. 
Just half kidding.

Penguins are way cooler (winks).

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> it could be identical all it want to Jason Fabok said it stand for red hood. whats wrong with an artist making up his own costume for a character when its quasi not in continuity anyway it's a stand alone project that's been in production for years. not to mention why do everyone have a problem with the final costume now when the concept art been on different sites since summer of 2018 for everyone to see.


Fabok says many things that not always come true, and I've been criticizing the design since it was revealed and I've been my disliking clear many times. I've even voiced those complaints to Fabok himself in the past.

----------


## Zaresh

> it could be identical all it want to Jason Fabok said it stand for red hood. whats wrong with an artist making up his own costume for a character when its quasi not in continuity anyway it's a stand alone project that's been in production for years. not to mention why do everyone have a problem with the final costume now when the concept art been on different sites since summer of 2018 for everyone to see.


It's nothing new. Dark didn't like it from the start for this same reasons as far as I recall. I was not very won myself, saw it a bit too bland. But it has grown on me. Works better in the actual comic with the jacket on. I think we were the only ones who had any complaint back then.

Edit: ah, late. In any case, different opinions. Everyone has the right to own them, and it's impossible to please every fan anyways.

----------


## Rise

> Visually I don't automatically link it to the Robin look but think it's a nice enough shout-out without being too in your face about it and being a cool look. 
> 
> It's not just you. It's a nice look and it's obvious to anyone who isn't trying to nitpick that's it's just supposed to be a shout out. 
> 
> But that's just me.


It's not just you. It's a nice look and it's obvious to anyone who isn't trying to niptick that's it's just supposed to be a shout out. 




> *Fabok says many things that not always come true*, and I've been criticizing the design since it was revealed and I've been my disliking clear many times. I've even voiced those complaints to Fabok himself in the past.


Which are? Are you talking about the variants which it doesn't take a genius to figure out that it was out of his control?

----------


## Sergard

Happy 100 pages of Jason Todd appreciation!

Here are some costume designs that I found on Instagram/Twitter.

Bernard Chang




cash




VirtualMockingbird (Magic!AU)

----------


## the illustrious mr. kenway

> Yes, he is wearing an adult-sized Robin costume just in red. And that is why I hate that costume. Remember how Earth-2 Grayson is considered lesser than E1/E0 Dick because he could never outgrow the Robin identity and become his own man? Same concept.


Fabok pulls off the Adult Robin look better than Earth One Robin to me. But Earth One Robin looks like an awkward mishmash of Robin and Batman and i couldn't take it seriously.

Thats why a lot of adaptations use Tim's OYL look. The red black color scheme just holds up better than the red yellow and green.

----------


## Zaresh

> Fabok pulls off the Adult Robin look better than Earth One Robin to me. But Earth One Robin looks like an awkward mishmash of Robin and Batman and i couldn't take it seriously.
> 
> Thats why a lot of adaptations use Tim's OYL look. The red black color scheme just holds up better than the red yellow and green.


I think you can still work a nice adult suit with that colour scene. While being flashy. Look at Mister Miracle (who for me is the saint patron of the Robins XD). Scott's costume is flashy, and pretty cool. But then, it's Kirby's original design, so it's kinda unfair.

----------


## Sergard

> Did y'all see the new MAFEX Hush figure - straight fire
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.bigbadtoystore.com/Produ...Details/127795


Yes, the figure looks dope.  :Cool: 
And together with the just announced action figure by McFarlane, Jason Todd fans really can't complain that there aren't enough great Jason Todd/Red Hood figures.
Although I'm still waiting for news on the XM Studios Red Hood statue. It has been a while since the concept art was revealed.

----------


## Zaresh

I was wandering through Reddit...

Writers, if you read this (in the very unlikely chance that happens), please, please, keep using literature nods and homages in Jason's book here and there. It really helps making readers curious about both the comic itself and the books nodded there.

Just a plead from a librarian. And a fan.
<3

----------


## Sergard

Dan Mora

_red hood and batgirl next I promise_

----------


## Sergard

BleedingCool: Arkham Knight is Batman's Worst Nightmare with Flame Toys

The Batman: Arkham Knight Figure from Flame Toys will be priced at $198. He is set to release in December 2020 and pre-orders are already live.

Description




> Captured alive by The Joker, Jason Todd suffered cruel physical and mental torture. He was brainwashed to hold a deep-rooted grudge against Batman and fully intended to kill the vigilante after making him suffer. He later became the Arkham Knight, the mysterious commander of a vast militia of mercenaries. To defeat Batman, he allied himself with Scarecrow and managed to gather Gotham City's most powerful villains who invaded Gotham and forced its evacuation during the events of [Batman: Arkham Knight].
> 
> From the famous DC game [Batman: Arkham Knight], Flame Toys presents Arkham Knight in a new stylisation called [Hito Kara Kuri]!
> 
> It is a fully painted, high-grade action figure standing around 18.5cm tall.
> 
> Parts of the joints are made of die-cast so any action is stable without compromising great performance.
> 
> There are over 80 points of articulation, enabling a wide range of dramatic poses.

----------


## Zaresh

> Dan Mora
> 
> _red hood and batgirl next I promise_


Pulpy design. I dig it.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Dan Mora
> 
> _red hood and batgirl next I promise_



Power Ranger mash-up?

----------


## Aahz

> BleedingCool: Arkham Knight is Batman's Worst Nightmare with Flame Toys
> 
> The Batman: Arkham Knight Figure from Flame Toys will be priced at $198. He is set to release in December 2020 and pre-orders are already live.


Wow 5 years after the game came out they are still making new figures.

----------


## Zaresh

> Power Ranger mash-up?


Seems like it's trying to make some rider-esque designs. Or at least, they remind me more of what you can see in japanese sentais more than in Power Rangers itself (which, to be fair, it's a franchise with the soul of a tokusatsu show. Ah, whatever. I guess it is a power rangers approach).

----------


## Sergard

Here's a comparison photo of the upcoming Red Hood figure by McFarlane to their Batgirl and Nightwing figure.

source: McFarlane Toys

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I like the way the red bat is molded instead of just painted like in the DC Direct version, plus, is actually on-model, but I have my doubts with the articulation. From the little that can be seen, Mcfarlane's version has has less articulation points than the DC Direct version.

----------


## Ssstammerer

Happy 10th year anniversary to the movie that made me love Jason Todd more - 'Batman: Under the Red Hood'.

Here's hoping that one day, this masterpiece of a movie will be one of the basis for any live action Batman film.

#JasonToddPH #RedHoodPH #UnderTheRedHood

----------


## Jman27

> Happy 10th year anniversary to the movie that made me love Jason Todd more - 'Batman: Under the Red Hood'.
> 
> Here's hoping that one day, this masterpiece of a movie will be one of the basis for any live action Batman film.
> 
> #JasonToddPH #RedHoodPH #UnderTheRedHood


it was due that movie that I learn the existence of Jason Todd love him in that film and been a huge fan ever since

*Batman:* I know I failed you. But I tried to save you, Jason. I'm... I'm trying to save you now.
*Red Hood*: Is that what you think this is about?! That you let me die? I don't know what clouded your judgment worse. Your guilt or your antiquated sense of morality. Bruce, I forgive you... For not saving me. But why, why on God's earth is HE still alive?!

*Red Hood*: Why? I'm not talking about killing Penguin, or Scarecrow, or Dent. I'm talking about HIM. Just him. I'm doing it because... because he took me away from you.

----------


## the illustrious mr. kenway

> it was due that movie that I learn the existence of Jason Todd love him in that film and been a huge fan ever since
> 
> *Batman:* I know I failed you. But I tried to save you, Jason. I'm... I'm trying to save you now.
> *Red Hood*: Is that what you think this is about?! That you let me die? I don't know what clouded your judgment worse. Your guilt or your antiquated sense of morality. Bruce, I forgive you... For not saving me. But why, why on God's earth is HE still alive?!
> 
> *Red Hood*: Why? I'm not talking about killing Penguin, or Scarecrow, or Dent. I'm talking about HIM. Just him. I'm doing it because... because he took me away from you.


I always thought that scene had a subtext of proving you love someone. Jason secretly wanted Bruce to prove that he loved him by killing Joker.

In his own words, he would've killed Joker if he took Bruce from him.

----------


## Drako

I think you guys will like this. Tim Drake's fans, not so much.

----------


## Frontier

> I think you guys will like this. Tim Drake's fans, not so much.


Didn't Jason wear the Red Robin suit first, come to think of it? At least Post-Crisis.

I'm surprised they seemingly didn't get Jensen Ackles back for this.

----------


## TheCape

> Didn't Jason wear the Red Robin suit first, come to think of it? At least Post-Crisis.
> 
> I'm surprised they seemingly didn't get Jensen Ackles back for this.


He did, he took it from some alternate universe Batman, but he didn't keep it for long. Ulysses Armstrong got it later, then Tim took it.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I think you guys will like this. Tim Drake's fans, not so much.


I wasn't expecting this version to be in continuity with the UTRH film, what a pleasant surprise. Although I'm not a fan of the implications shown from what I assume is the "Batman save Robin" choice that means Jason will go down the path of villainy anyways. I hate when Jason gets pigeonholed on the "he was always bad" role. 

Also, Ackles isn't returning to voice an adult Jason so unless is supposed to be a surprise reveal, that means we aren't getting new footage of Jason as Red Hood.

----------


## Frontier

> Also, Ackles isn't returning to voice an adult Jason so unless is supposed to be a surprise reveal, that means we aren't getting new footage of Jason as Red Hood.


I kind of assume from Batman's voiceover during the straight _Under the Red Hood_ path scenes that he just narrates what happens.

I guess the Hush and Red Robin paths happen sooner than when Jason becomes Red Hood so Jason won't sound like an adult yet.

----------


## Drako

> Didn't Jason wear the Red Robin suit first, come to think of it? At least Post-Crisis.
> 
> I'm surprised they seemingly didn't get Jensen Ackles back for this.


Yes, during Countdown to Final Crisis.
Dick, Jason, Tim and Ulysses had used this costume before, but it became more prominent with Drake. By the thumbnail i thought Tim would be in the movie.

----------


## Vakanai

Just saw this in another thread, the excitement is real right now. They're bringing back the Under the Red Hood style and continuity for the Death in the Family movie? And they're going experimental with it by making it interactive? I didn't see that coming. I've had to have watched Under the Red Hood well over a hundred times! Getting this a decade later, I haven't been this excited for an animated DC film in years!

----------


## Zaresh

> I think you guys will like this. Tim Drake's fans, not so much.


Ok, So... It's a prequel to the UtRH movie, right? Straight prequel to the animated adaptation, not an adaptation of the original ADitF comic. Which, in my book, it's pretty exciting, like CHOO CHOO ALL ABOARD THE HYPE TRAIN et cetera levels of exciting.

But it's also an alternate original story to the UtRH and Hush? Or... Whaaaat? Because, is that Jason using the Red Robin costume during the same scene he used the Red Hood costume in the original movie? Or is Tim? Is Tim timetraveling again, guys? Or Is Jason from an alternate timeline/universe? Whaaaaat?

I'm utterly confused right now.

Edit: the first one to wear that costume was Dick in an elseword. Then Jason in Countdown. Then Tim in Red Robin. Edit2: oh, right, that guy took it in between Tim and Jason. Edit3: wait wait wait. It's an interactive movie, like the Black Mirror one? Cool.

----------


## Drako

> Ok, So... It's a prequel to the UtRH movie, right? Straight prequel to the animated adaptation, not an adaptation of the original ADitF comic. Which, in my book, it's pretty exciting, like CHOO CHOO ALL ABOARD THE HYPE TRAIN et cetera.
> 
> But it's also an alternate original story to the UtRH and Hush? Or... Whaaaat? Because, is that Jason using the Red Robin costume during the same scene he used the Red Hood costume in the original movie? Or is Tim? Is Tim timetraveling again, guys? Or Is Jason from an alternate timeline/universe? Whaaaaat?
> 
> I'm utterly confused right now.
> 
> Edit: the first one to wear that costume was Dick in an elseword. Then Jason in Countdown. Then Tim in Red Robin. Edit2: oh, right, that guy took it in between Tim and Jason.


There is no Tim Drake, the movie is all about Jason.

----------


## Vakanai

> Ok, So... It's a prequel to the UtRH movie, right? Straight prequel to the animated adaptation, not an adaptation of the original ADitF comic. Which, in my book, it's pretty exiting, like CHOO CHOO ALL ABOARD THE HYPE TRAIN et cetera.
> 
> But it's also an alternate original story to the UtRH and Hush? Or... Whaaaat? Because, is that Jason using the Red Robin costume during the same scene he used the Red Hood costume in the original movie? Or is Tim? Is Tim timetraveling again, guys? Or Is Jason from an alternate timeline/universe? Whaaaaat?
> 
> I'm utterly confused right now.
> 
> Edit: the first one to wear that costume was Dick in an elseword. Then Jason in Countdown. Then Tim in Red Robin.


It's Jason. Looks like they're playing up the "you decide if Robin lives or dies!" aspect of the comic, you literally get to choose. And your choice impacts how the Under the Red Hood story plays out. Robin is saved by Batman, becomes Red Robin but still makes war with Black Mask. Batman doesn't make it in time but Jason survives the explosion, he becomes Hush. Something like that anyways, I'm guessing here. So basically you get to make your own Elseworld with this film.

----------


## Zaresh

> There is no Tim Drake, the movie is all about Jason.





> It's Jason. Looks like they're playing up the "you decide if Robin lives or dies!" aspect of the comic, you literally get to choose. And your choice impacts how the Under the Red Hood story plays out. Robin is saved by Batman, becomes Red Robin but still makes war with Black Mask. Batman doesn't make it in time but Jason survives the explosion, he becomes Hush. Something like that anyways, I'm guessing here. So basically you get to make your own Elseworld with this film.


Saw it later, after 2 more edits ^_^U. Damn, this pretty much means I'm not going to watch it anytime soon. If it were some traditional narrative, I could count with them releasing it here. But interactive stuff, I don't know.

----------


## Vakanai

> Saw it later, after 2 more edits ^_^U. Damn, this pretty much means I'm not going to watch it anytime soon. If it were traditional narrative, I could count with them releasing it here. But interactive stuff, I don't know.


It's an interactive movie - everything is on the disk, you just make your choice via remote. It's no different than some of those interactive game type bonus features on some old DVDs. I assume it works the same with digital streaming, but I have no clue (I don't really do streaming). Point is it should be as easily distributable as any other release they do.

----------


## Drako

> It's an interactive movie - everything is on the disk, you just make your choice via remote. It's no different than some of those interactive game type bonus features on some old DVDs. I assume it works the same with digital streaming, but I have no clue (I don't really do streaming). Point is it should be as easily distributable as any other release they do.


Streaming works just like the blu ray. The choices are all align like a real movie, but when you press the button to select which one do you want, they jump you to the time code that choice is recorded.

----------


## Rise

I don't think it's that complicated to get...

The movie is a prequel to UTRH and when you get the scene where the joker is trying to kill Jason,  you (as viewer) are given 3 choices which will give you two alternative new stories plus UTRH. 

Death: Jason become Red Hood 
Rescued by Batman: Jason become Red Robin
Cheat death: Jason become Hush(?)

----------


## Zaresh

> It's an interactive movie - everything is on the disk, you just make your choice via remote. It's no different than some of those interactive game type bonus features on some old DVDs. I assume it works the same with digital streaming, but I have no clue (I don't really do streaming). Point is it should be as easily distributable as any other release they do.


My fears come from the type of medium. There's not much of a market for animated comic book movies here as far as I know; there's even less for interactive "Choose your own adventure" stuff like this one. I know about that Black Mirror movie, which was an actual hit and caught people's interest. But it was also released in Netflix, and it's a life-action drama. Its target is wider. Maybe Netflix buys this for its service here, but... I don't know. I don't have high hopes. And importing from the USA is quite expensive. I usually get my books from UK, could look how much it costs. I hope Netflix get it (but then, I have yet to see YJ S3 released there, so...).

----------


## Vakanai

> My fears come from the type of medium. There's not much of a market for animated comic book movies here as far as I know; there's even less for interactive "Choose your own adventure" stuff like this one. I know about that Black Mirror movie, which was an actual hit and caught people's interest. But it was also released in Netflix, and it's a life-action drama. Its target is wider. Maybe Netflix buys this for its service here, but... I don't know. I don't have high hopes. And importing from the USA is quite expensive. I usually get my books from UK, could look how much it costs. I hope Netflix get it (but then, I have yet to see YJ S3 released there, so...).


I can't tell you. I would assume it's as likely to show up in your country as any other DC animated movie, but I'm obviously not in a position to know that. Hope you get it over there.

----------


## Zaresh

> I can't tell you. I would assume it's as likely to show up in your country as any other DC animated movie, but I'm obviously not in a position to know that. Hope you get it over there.


Thank you  :Smile: . Your support in this dramatic time (man, I'm going to die waiting to be able to watch it... Like, seriously, I'm dying of hype right now. Not even the funko got me this hyped) is dearly appreciated and welcome.

----------


## Vakanai

> Thank you . Your support in this dramatic time (man, I'm going to die waiting to be able to watch it... Like, seriously, I'm dying of hype right now. Not even the funko got me this hyped) is dearly appreciated and welcome.


I totally get dying of hype for this. I mean the closest I've felt to this for a movie in recent years was the Batman/TMNT crossover, and even that didn't quite reach this level of hype for me. Under the Red Hood is one if my favorite movies, so getting both the prequel to it and different versions of it all in one go? Freaking Christmas!

----------


## Zaresh

> I totally get dying of hype for this. I mean the closest I've felt to this for a movie in recent years was the Batman/TMNT crossover, and even that didn't quite reach this level of hype for me. Under the Red Hood is one if my favorite movies, so getting both the prequel to it and different versions of it all in one go? Freaking Christmas!


Freaking Cristmas indeed!

----------


## Jackalope89

Only downside; no Jensen Ackles voicing Jason. Otherwise, hell yeah!

----------


## Sergard

> Only downside; no Jensen Ackles voicing Jason. Otherwise, hell yeah!


I'm surprised that they didn't ask Jensen Ackles. I don't believe he would have declined the offer.

I hope this movie will be awesome - not just because we are celebrating the 10-year-anniversary of _Batman - Unter the Red Hood_ but also because I like the interactive concept. Maybe we'll get more interactive movies afterwards. The description on YouTube mentions "multiple choices" and "several endings". So it seems like "Robin cheats death/Robin dies/Batman saves Robin" will only be the first step. (I wonder what happens if you don't choose anything.)

And can we just take a moment and appreciate how awesome the line "I alone will become more than the dreams and nightmares they imagined for me." is?

----------


## Zaresh

> *I'm surprised that they didn't ask Jensen Ackles. I don't believe he would have declined the offer.*
> 
> I hope this movie will be awesome - not just because we are celebrating the 10-year-anniversary of _Batman - Unter the Red Hood_ but also because I like the interactive concept. Maybe we'll get more interactive movies afterwards. The description on YouTube mentions "multiple choices" and "several endings". So it seems like "Robin cheats death/Robin dies/Batman saves Robin" will only be the first step. (I wonder what happens if you don't choose anything.)
> 
> *And can we just take a moment and appreciate how awesome the line "I alone will become more than the dreams and nightmares they imagined for me." is?*


I guess that, either they wanted someone sounding like a young adult (Jensen may sound too mature now for a character around their 18-20, I guess), or he wasn't available. I kind of see the second one being the case here.

It's a pretty badass line. I wonder who's writing the new script for those routes.

----------


## Sergard

Harley Quinn Black + White + Red (2020-) #6
Digital release date: 31 July 2020




> Black, White Knight, and Red
> From the pages of Sean Murphys BATMAN: WHITE KNIGHT, a sneak peek at the upcoming spinoff series BATMAN: WHITE KNIGHT PRESENTS HARLEY QUINN! Harley looks back on the night of her first arrest by Batman. In the heat of one of her earliest escapades with the Joker, Harleys high spirits are tanked and she gets a cold glimpse of the chaos to come when violence escalates and their heist is crashed by *Batman and Robin*. Forced to save face or take the high road, Harley makes a choice that will cement her unspoken bond with Batman for years to come.


Robin refers to Jason, right?





Batman: The Adventures Continue (2020-) Chapter #9 will be digitally released tomorrow.

If someone wants a little reminder/review of the last chapter, then I can - like always - recommend Watchtower Database:


]

----------


## Sergard

Dexter Soy

_"check out this 3d sculpt by @KallahanSculpt"_





Little reminder, Victor Kallahan (@KallahanSculpt) was the one who created this gorgeous figure of Artemis:

----------


## Jackalope89

> Harley Quinn Black + White + Red (2020-) #6
> Digital release date: 31 July 2020
> 
> 
> 
> Robin refers to Jason, right?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Watchtower Database is awesome. Especially watching their heads explode from trying to stuff everything into a timeline. 

As for the Batman & Robin; 95% sure its Jason. As he was the first Robin in this universe.

----------


## Sergard

Apparently there is a little misprint on the RH:O #47 variant. You can see a fainted Wonder Woman logo in the background. (source)
Not sure, if there are just a few copies like that or if every copy has the same misprint. But personally, I think that's hilarious. Jason is such a Wonder family fanboy.  :Wink: 




And off-topic, but in regards to Three Jokers: Jason Fabok mentioned in a comment on Instagram which three premium variant Jokers belong to Killing Joke Joker. I'm not sure if this was supposed to be obvious.

----------


## TheCape

> Dexter Soy
> 
> _"check out this 3d sculpt by @KallahanSculpt"_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Little reminder, Victor Kallahan (@KallahanSculpt) was the one who created this gorgeous figure of Artemis:


Damn, that looks good, props to Victor for doing a great job.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Apparently there is a little misprint on the RH:O #47 variant. You can see a fainted Wonder Woman logo in the background. (source)
> Not sure, if there are just a few copies like that or if every copy has the same misprint. But personally, I think that's hilarious. Jason is such a Wonder family fanboy. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And off-topic, but in regards to Three Jokers: Jason Fabok mentioned in a comment on Instagram which three premium variant Jokers belong to Killing Joke Joker. I'm not sure if this was supposed to be obvious.


Developed a bit of a crush on Diana in "Man Who Has Everything" when he was Robin. Teamed up with Donna not only in the NTT but after they both came back (and put up with Kyle). And now in a kind of grey area with Artemis. More than friends, but neither quite willing to admit their feelings for the other. And, while not Amazons, he's also gotten along well with Supergirl, friends with Starfire, and dated Ravager.

The guy clearly tends to be close with very strong women; both literally and metaphorically.

----------


## Zaresh

> Developed a bit of a crush on Diana in "Man Who Has Everything" when he was Robin. Teamed up with Donna not only in the NTT but after they both came back (and put up with Kyle). And now in a kind of grey area with Artemis. More than friends, but neither quite willing to admit their feelings for the other. And, while not Amazons, he's also gotten along well with Supergirl, friends with Starfire, and dated Ravager.
> 
> The guy clearly tends to be close with very strong women; both literally and metaphorically.


May point out that many, if not all but Kara, are older than him?  :Big Grin:

----------


## TheCape

> May point out that many, if not all but Kara, are older than him?


I thought that i was the only one that noticed that lol. Thougth is kind of ironic that now Kara is younger than him, considering that in the 80s she was Barbara's age.

----------


## Jackalope89

> May point out that many, if not all but Kara, are older than him?


Even Rose?

But still, I guess Jason has thing for older ladies.

----------


## TheCape

> Even Rose?
> 
> But still, I guess Jason has thing for older ladies.


Nah, she is probably his age.

Wich reminds me, what comic did she and Jason interact?

----------


## Zaresh

> Nah, she is probably his age.
> 
> Wich reminds me, what comic did she and Jason interact?


If I recall, New 52 Deathstroke, and... briefly an issue in New 52 RHATO? Or was Red Hood / Arsenal? Anyways, New 52 Deathstroke was kinda bad, I think (I just glanced through it, sorry), and I kind of remember her being out of her mind maybe? Just in case you're interested. It wasn't much of an interaction either, I think. Slade had more panels with Jason by far. It was for two issues, I think.

I totally forgot that she's probably his age. Joey is the one who is a bit older.

----------


## DurararaFTW

It was in an issue or two of New 52 RHATO though Rebirth Deathstroke is a full reboot of his family. Jason only dated a Rose with an eyepatch, current continuity Rose never lost her eye at all and is still teenaged.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Burnett and Dini are cribbing the Zero Year Tynion did for BTAS Jason origin. Can't say I'm a fan of it, or they way they still lean into "The signs for Jason's instability were always there" take.

----------


## Sergard

I enjoyed _Batman: The Adventures Continue_ - Chapter 9 for the most part although I'm sure that I missed some references.
*spoilers:*
Personally, I think Burnett and Dini did good with Jason's backstory, they put a new twist on the Red Hood persona. I like the Wolves and their Red Hood and that the writers gave Jason an older brother - even though they just did it to immediately kill him. I love Batman's surprised look in the bottom left corner panel when he realizes that he's standing in a room full of Batman fanart/photos(?). Jason looks a little embarrassed.

I'm disappointed by the batfamily. But I'll wait until the story arc is over for my final verdict.
*end of spoilers*

I wished Deathstroke and Azrael would have gotten a detailed backstory too, at least Azrael. As it is now, they appeared - and they disappeared.


Adam Fay (unused Red Hood design for _Harley Quinn_)

----------


## Zaresh

> I enjoyed _Batman: The Adventures Continue_ - Chapter 9 for the most part although I'm sure that I missed some references.
> *spoilers:*
> Personally, I think Burnett and Dini did good with Jason's backstory, they put a new twist on the Red Hood persona. I like the Wolves and their Red Hood and that the writers gave Jason an older brother - even though they just did it to immediately kill him. I love Batman's surprised look in the bottom left corner panel when he realizes that he's standing in a room full of Batman fanart/photos(?). Jason looks a little embarrassed.
> 
> I'm disappointed by the batfamily. But I'll wait until the story arc is over for my final verdict.
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*

Call me an optimist. But I think that the writers are going to show how judgemental and wrong the bats are. I mean, even when they could, they've yet to show Jason doing something straight wrong. The worst he has done, f I recall, has been pulling out a gun to threaten a nosy, complaining gothamite in crime alley. That, and stalking them.Not that they're going to show Jason as this perfect Robin or well adjusted teenager either. But I don't think they're going to dare painting him like he deserves his fate, or that he's unredeemable, or a monster, or something. If they go with the DCAU portrayals, every one of them, even Barbara, has clear flaws in their characters. Tim's angry moods have been pointed out, for example.

I find hilarious that they've kind of given Jason Tim's own obsessiveness.

Edit: Wrong here, just in case, is meant to mean, well, not getting the facts right. Not that they're wrong individuals or something. I hope my point got across.

*end of spoilers*

----------


## Restingvoice

> Burnett and Dini are cribbing the Zero Year Tynion did for BTAS Jason origin. Can't say I'm a fan of it, or they way they still lean into "The signs for Jason's instability were always there" take.


was Danny the guy who shot himself in the convenience store or... no... he's the one who asked Jason to join what's left of Red Hood gang right?

----------


## adrikito

I like Jason and artemis figures..


I liked the Death in Family Preview.(I still remember under Red Hood).. So. Jason inis using the RED ROBIN costume too.. right? 

I saw weird see Tim attacking Black Mask.

----------


## Vakanai

> I like Jason and artemis figures..
> 
> 
> I liked the Death in Family Preview.(I still remember under Red Hood).. So. Jason inis using the RED ROBIN costume too.. right? 
> 
> I saw weird see Tim attacking Black Mask.


No Tim. It's interactive, so depending on what you choose Jason becomes the Red Hood, Red Robin, or Hush.

----------


## Blue22

Not gonna lie, seeing Red Robin in the thumbnail made me misread the title. Thought we were getting a "Death *OF* the Family" adaption. Which...I honestly would have preferred. Especially since there doesn't seem to be a huge difference in the routes you take with this interactive movie. Hell, one of the three routes would just be the same old "Under the Red Hood"

----------


## Blue22

> Burnett and Dini are cribbing the Zero Year Tynion did for BTAS Jason origin. Can't say I'm a fan of it, or they way they still lean into "The signs for Jason's instability were always there" take.


I like the little streak they got going on in Jason's hair. A way to make him look different from the other Robins while also possibly being a shout out to his original hair color.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2020/0...-a-choiceagain

Out Digital and Physical on October 13th




> *Produced, directed and written by Brandon Vietti*, in Batman: Death in the Family, the infamous murder of Batman protégé Jason Todd will be undone, and the destinies of Batman, Robin and the Joker will play out in shocking new ways as viewers make multiple choices to control the story.


Let's see how it goes then, UTRH was so good because of Winnick's involvement, not Vietti's direction. And people are still very divided about Young Justice

----------


## Zaresh

> https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2020/0...-a-choiceagain
> 
> Out Digital and Physical on October 13th
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see how it goes then, UTRH was so good because of Winnick's involvement, not Vietti's direction. And people are still very divided about Young Justice


Mmm... I like Young Justice (well, the first two seasons af least. Haven't watched the third one yet), but it does have some problems in my opinion. Mainly, very tight animation, which is a budget problem; and a too large cast, which is probably a writers' room problem and maybe some push from the higher ups to put in as many new characters in each season as posible.

That said, glancing through IMDB, Vietti doesn't have a ton of experience scripting, which makes me a bit wary. But he does have plenty of experience in other fields of production; that's more reasuring.

Also, animation wise, direction wise, UTRH is good. It wasn't just the script, hey. Or, well, I don't think it was just becuase of that.

----------


## redmax99

never mind i got the answer

----------


## Jackalope89

> Mmm... I like Young Justice (well, the first two seasons af least. Haven't watched the third one yet), but it does have some problems in my opinion. Mainly, very tight animation, which is a budget problem; and a too large cast, which is probably a writers' room problem and maybe some push from the higher ups to put in as many new characters in each season as posible.
> 
> That said, glancing through IMDB, Vietti doesn't have a ton of experience scripting, which makes me a bit wary. But he does have plenty of experience in other fields of production; that's more reasuring.
> 
> Also, animation wise, direction wise, UTRH is good. It wasn't just the script, hey. Or, well, I don't think it was just becuase of that.


Third season had a few budget constraints (mainly for certain voice actors), but storywise, it was really good, with some little hints here and there of what is to come in the future.

----------


## Blue22

Overall I'd say the third season was *really* good but it suffered from the same problem that the second season had. Introducing so many new characters and doing next to nothing with them. In fact it was even worse than Season 2 in that regard. Did Steph and Cissie even have any lines?

The YJ universe is definitely one that would benefit from having more than one show (or at least some spin-off comics). It's amazing but I feel like it's grown too big to be restricted the way it is. Especially now that the main characters are all spread throughout three or four separate teams. I'm happy that there's a chance of seeing characters like Jason and Damian in the next season but part of me is fearful that they'll end up having maybe one episode where they get to do something and then get relegated to the background like every Bat family member who's not Dick and Babs.

----------


## Sergard

> was Danny the guy who shot himself in the convenience store or... no... he's the one who asked Jason to join what's left of Red Hood gang right?


Danny is a new character. *spoilers:*
He is Jason's older brother who joined a gang called Wolves to earn some money but died at the first job when he was their lookout, called Red Hood.
*end of spoilers* 

The other character you mean is probably Chris. He appeared in Batman #0 and in RHatO #25. Chris was a streetkid like Jason who wanted to escape the street life and be somebody. In both issues, Chris and Jason go separate ways in the end.

From Batman #0:



From RHatO #25 (New52 run):

----------


## Sergard

Batman: The Adventures Continue (2020-) Chapter #10 will be digitally released on August 13 2020 (source). No cover yet (little strange that DC switched from using a cover twice to giving each chapter a new cover). Also, very short summary without any new information:




> The secret history of Batman's second Robin revealed at long last!


I think it's a good sign when shortly after a story is released, artists start to post fanarts.

yopi




Nix





optimissie

----------


## Sergard

The Robin in _Harley Quinn Black + White + Red_ #6 doesn't get named but considering that this is the _Batman: White Knight_ universe, it's Jason. Robin has only a few panels and a few lines, though. Not surprising since he's only a side character.

The first panel reminds me of a different comic scene with Bruce and Jason where Jason is also leaning back and observing the scene. But I can't find it.
The third panel reminds me of a similar scene from Detective Comics #570. But there, a furious Batman punches Joker and Jason tries to stop him.

Harley Quinn Batman and Robin panel 1.jpg

Harley Quinn Batman and Robin panel 2.jpg

Harley Quinn Batman and Robin panel 3.jpg

----------


## sifighter

Screenshot_2020-08-01 DCeased_DeadPlanet_2_4 jpg (WEBP Image, 666 × 1024 pixels) - Scaled (94%).jpg

So I guess Jason helped reform the Shadowpact in the apocalypse. Also from the looks of the preview Jason lost Roy again. :Frown: 

https://aiptcomics.com/2020/07/31/dc...dead-planet-2/

----------


## Swallowtail

> Let's see how it goes then, UTRH was so good because of Winnick's involvement, not Vietti's direction. And people are still very divided about Young Justice


That's an utterly absurd thing to say. Even if Vietti didn't change a comma of Winnick's script he and his story board team would have had to conceptualise all the action pretty much from scratch. This is always true, but especially in animation, where you don't have physical environments to interact with. The directing team would have had to turn say "Rooftop knife fight" into a fully realised scene. Winnick wrote a good script, but that's no guarantee of a good film, if Vietti, Andrea Romano, the cast and the rest of the team hadn't also brought their A game.

----------


## Zaresh

> The Robin in _Harley Quinn Black + White + Red_ #6 doesn't get named but considering that this is the _Batman: White Knight_ universe, it's Jason. Robin has only a few panels and a few lines, though. Not surprising since he's only a side character.
> 
> *The first panel reminds me of a different comic scene with Bruce and Jason where Jason is also leaning back and observing the scene. But I can't find it.*
> The third panel reminds me of a similar scene from Detective Comics #570. But there, a furious Batman punches Joker and Jason tries to stop him.
> 
> Harley Quinn Batman and Robin panel 1.jpg
> 
> Harley Quinn Batman and Robin panel 2.jpg
> 
> Harley Quinn Batman and Robin panel 3.jpg


Maybe from issue #0 during Rebirth? There is another one in another flashback, I think, that could be what it reminds you of. But I can't remember what issue that other one was.

----------


## Sergard

> Attachment 99317
> 
> So I guess Jason helped reform the Shadowpact in the apocalypse. Also from the looks of the preview Jason lost Roy again.
> 
> https://aiptcomics.com/2020/07/31/dc...dead-planet-2/


I'd like to be optimistic and say that Roy isn't completely down yet and that Zatanna could maybe heal him (can she do that?). On the other hand, it's Tom Taylor. Roy is dead. Tom Taylor likes to finish what he starts. There's a bitter irony if you compare the preview with the story of the first issue.

Who's the guy with the green cape?

----------


## Zaresh

> I'd like to be optimistic and say that Roy isn't completely down yet and that Zatanna could maybe heal him (can she do that?). On the other hand, it's Tom Taylor. Roy is dead. Tom Taylor likes to finish what he starts. There's a bitter irony if you compare the preview with the story of the first issue.
> 
> Who's the guy with the green cape?


Mmmm... Are all the OG Titans dead now? Or am I counting wrong?

----------


## sifighter

> I'd like to be optimistic and say that Roy isn't completely down yet and that Zatanna could maybe heal him (can she do that?). On the other hand, it's Tom Taylor. Roy is dead. Tom Taylor likes to finish what he starts. There's a bitter irony if you compare the preview with the story of the first issue.
> 
> Who's the guy with the green cape?


I mean Roy seems to be pretty roasted at that point. 

The guy with the green cape is Ragman, he's pretty obscure.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Danny is a new character. *spoilers:*
> He is Jason's older brother who joined a gang called Wolves to earn some money but died at the first job when he was their lookout, called Red Hood.
> *end of spoilers* 
> 
> The other character you mean is probably Chris. He appeared in Batman #0 and in RHatO #25. Chris was a streetkid like Jason who wanted to escape the street life and be somebody. In both issues, Chris and Jason go separate ways in the end.
> 
> From Batman #0:
> 
> 
> ...


Oh okay, I thought his name is Danny too

----------


## Sergard

GHeroes Europe

_The PreOrder for the XM Red Hood 1/6 statue will be open this coming wednesday 5th August! Be ready! 

#XMStudios #XMStudiosGH #DC #RedHood_

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> That's an utterly absurd thing to say. Even if Vietti didn't change a comma of Winnick's script he and his story board team would have had to conceptualise all the action pretty much from scratch. This is always true, but especially in animation, where you don't have physical environments to interact with. The directing team would have had to turn say "Rooftop knife fight" into a fully realised scene. Winnick wrote a good script, but that's no guarantee of a good film, if Vietti, Andrea Romano, the cast and the rest of the team hadn't also brought their A game.


I stand by what I said. The film is mainly praised by the story and the way it fixed issues from the original story. The technical level of the film is what everyone has come to expect from any Warner Animation production, there's no real standout in there, like in, let's say, Batman Ninja, that got more creative with the presentation.

----------


## Zaresh

> I stand by what I said. The film is mainly praised by the story and the way it fixed issues from the original story. The technical level of the film is what everyone has come to expect from any Warner Animation production, there's no real standout in there, like in, let's say, Batman Ninja, that got more creative with the presentation.


Direction isn't only about technical features, Dark. It's also about how you represent the scene. It plays a big, big role in storytelling in animated media. Often, as far as I've seen, the director is also the screenwriter or part of the writers team. Because directors storyboard the story and that's the technical script of an animated project. They can be key animators too, because key animation is what dictates how a scene is going to look. Directors and writers work very tightly in animation. It also works the other way, I think: writer's role and involvement in how a project look is wider and bigger in animation, unless they only write the plot which I doubt's the case for Winick in Under the Red Hood.

And Under the Red Hood has some really nice choices in how it looks and feels, even if they're nothing groundbreaking or overly original. For starters, the action scenes look good and are easy to follow, same as the most dramatic scenes. I don't mean in a technical sense, which is average for western medium budged product I guess.

In my opinion, of course. I'm just a fan of animation in general.

----------


## Vakanai

> I stand by what I said. The film is mainly praised by the story and the way it fixed issues from the original story. The technical level of the film is what everyone has come to expect from any Warner Animation production, there's no real standout in there, like in, let's say, Batman Ninja, that got more creative with the presentation.


I don't know, most of what has come out since hasn't had the same visual style. Sure the animation is typically fluid and the action is amazing, but some of the detail like that close up of Robin's eye while Joker is beating him with a crowbar or the stunning backgrounds of Gotham City as Batman and Nightwing are chasing Jason, just hasn't been there very much since. It definitely had some technical stuff that either hasn't been repeated or hasn't been repeated as often.

----------


## Sergard

> I stand by what I said. *The film is mainly praised by the story and the way it fixed issues from the original story*. The technical level of the film is what everyone has come to expect from any Warner Animation production, there's no real standout in there, like in, let's say, Batman Ninja, that got more creative with the presentation.


... and for the chase scene (and for the voice acting). Never forget the chase scene. Even after 10 years it's still good.  :Embarrassment: 




Batman Ninja is from 2018. I don't see how those two movies are comparable.  :Confused:

----------


## Vakanai

> ... and for the chase scene (and for the voice acting). Never forget the chase scene. Even after 10 years it's still good. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Batman Ninja is from 2018. I don't see, how those two movies are comparable.


The chase scene with Batman in the Batwing was pretty great too. And the Amazo fight.

----------


## Sergard

> The chase scene with Batman in the Batwing was pretty great too. And the Amazo fight.


And the bathroom without a door is iconic.  :Cool:

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Direction isn't only about technical features, Dark. It's also about how you represent the scene. It plays a big, big role in storytelling in animated media. Often, as far as I've seen, the director is also the screenwriter or part of the writers team. Because directors storyboard the story and that's the technical script of an animated project. They can be key animators too, because key animation is what dictates how a scene is going to look. Directors and writers work very tightly in animation. It also works the other way, I think: writer's role and involvement in how a project look is wider and bigger in animation, unless they only write the plot which I doubt's the case for Winick in Under the Red Hood.
> 
> And Under the Red Hood has some really nice choices in how it looks and feels, even if they're nothing groundbreaking or overly original. For starters, the action scenes look good and are easy to follow, same as the most dramatic scenes. I don't mean in a technical sense, which is average for western medium budged product I guess.
> 
> In my opinion, of course. I'm just a fan of animation in general.


I consider storyboard, key animation, etc. to the technical aspect of a film, be animated or live-action. And yes, it is true that directors help to give a film a distinct voice, but as yourself pointed out, Vietti is a good director but one that lacks a distinctive voice so the story becomes a more important element to help his productions to stand out. UTRH had Winnick coming back to an old script of his with more experience and a new perspective, and according to a recent interview with him, he was the one who pitched the idea to Warner Animation in the first place, so the film was essentially his baby. 

Now with DITF, we know it will be well directed and animated, with pretty much the same voice cast so the only real question is the story. And was saw, Vietti doesn't have many writing credits to his name something that always makes me wary of a project.




> Batman Ninja is from 2018. I don't see how those two movies are comparable.


As it was already pointed out, URTH has great setpieces and fights but ultimately, so do the rest of the DC animated films, so it doesn't really stand out on a technical level. And in fact, that is a common criticism towards all of the recent output for DC's animated films. I mentioned batman Ninja because is the opposite of UTRH, a film with a mediocre story that is being held up for its visuals. Even discounting the fact is CG animation, the fact they used a completely different animation style for the segment with Jason earns it all the praise in that regard.

----------


## Sergard

Red Robin for everyone!

dedene15







Dan Mora has added Batgirl to his tokusatsu-style batfamily. Red Robin is next.

----------


## Vakanai

> I consider storyboard, key animation, etc. to the technical aspect of a film, be animated or live-action. And yes, it is true that directors help to give a film a distinct voice, but as yourself pointed out, Vietti is a good director but one that lacks a distinctive voice so the story becomes a more important element to help his productions to stand out. UTRH had Winnick coming back to an old script of his with more experience and a new perspective, and according to a recent interview with him, he was the one who pitched the idea to Warner Animation in the first place, so the film was essentially his baby.


That's not new news - in the sneak peek over a decade ago Winnick mentioned pitching the story.




> Now with DITF, we know it will be well directed and animated, with pretty much the same voice cast so the only real question is the story. And was saw, Vietti doesn't have many writing credits to his name something that always makes me wary of a project.
> 
> 
> 
> As it was already pointed out, URTH has great setpieces and fights but ultimately, so do the rest of the DC animated films, so it doesn't really stand out on a technical level. And in fact, that is a common criticism towards all of the recent output for DC's animated films. I mentioned batman Ninja because is the opposite of UTRH, a film with a mediocre story that is being held up for its visuals. Even discounting the fact is CG animation, the fact they used a completely different animation style for the segment with Jason earns it all the praise in that regard.


Not really - the fight scenes sure, but as I said I find the set pieces/background to not be on the same level, and the level of detail and animation outside of the fight scenes in the newer movies haven't been on the same level. Hell, look at the gorgeously detailed lamp R'as has while talking to Batman and the bland items every where else in other movies. I really think that Under the Red Hood is technically on a higher level than just the script when compared to most of what came out since.

----------


## Zaresh

> The chase scene with Batman in the Batwing was pretty great too. And the Amazo fight.


And the fight with those cyborg-bad guys was some nice and clever technical wise.
Edit: Also, also, the scene with the Joker, Jason and Bruce? How the whole scene is done, it's neat. It has some dramatic timing and framing.

Edit 2:



> Dan Mora has added Batgirl to his tokusatsu-style batfamily. Red Robin is next.


Ok, now I can say that I have a new fave in that pic. That Batgirl costume is stylish as hell.

----------


## Sergard

> Maybe from issue #0 during Rebirth? There is another one in another flashback, I think, that could be what it reminds you of. But I can't remember what issue that other one was.


Found it. It's from Batman Annual #11.

----------


## Digifiend

> Dan Mora has added Batgirl to his tokusatsu-style batfamily. Red Robin is next.


Shouldn't that be in Barbara's thread?

https://www.cbr.com/dc-batman-death-...ctive-trailer/

Why are they using Tim's logo for Jason? It's even on the Red Robin costume!

----------


## Zaresh

> Found it. It's from Batman Annual #11.


Man, the digital version looks nice. I wonder if I can find this one in paper, though. Wikia says it's written by Alan Moore and my brother is a fan and... stuff. For my brother.

*EDIT:* By the way, or by other way. I'm finally putting all those links to fics in a proper place for searching and finding. It's just a table (in Notion) so far, and I'm still recording entries in there. But if I'm not mistaken, it allows you guys to freely edit, comment or copy the table as it is now, as well as use searching, etc. Feel free to add, modify or copy any bit you would like to: it's made for the thread*. I plan to add another table tor writers, but I've yet work for hours until I can be done putting fics in this one. This is a shorten link hat hopefully now will work: https://cutt.ly/ndfZr6w

----------


## Sergard

> Man, the digital version looks nice. I wonder if I can find this one in paper, though. Wikia says it's written by Alan Moore and my brother is a fan and... stuff. For my brother.
> 
> *EDIT:* By the way, or by other way. I'm finally putting all those links to fics in a proper place for searching and finding. It's just a table (in Notion) so far, and I'm still recording entries in there. But if I'm not mistaken, it allows you guys to freely edit, comment or copy the table as it is now, as well as use searching, etc. Feel free to add, modify or copy any bit you would like to: it's made for the threat. I plan to add another table tor writers, but I've yet work for hours until I can be done putting fics in this one. This is a shorten link hat hopefully now will work: https://cutt.ly/ndfZr6w


Batman Annual #11 is collected in Batman: Second Chances, if this is of any help. But I guess that the trade isn't that easy to get either.
Personally, I enjoyed the annual very much. It's pure fun. Penguin gets a new love interest and Batman is grumpy because nobody is listening to him.

Thanks for the list.  :Big Grin:

----------


## Zaresh

> Batman Annual #11 is collected in Batman: Second Chances, if this is of any help. But I guess that the trade isn't that easy to get either.
> Personally, I enjoyed the annual very much. It's pure fun. Penguin gets a new love interest and Batman is grumpy because nobody is listening to him.
> 
> Thanks for the list.


Cool. Thanks a lot for the info  :Cool:

----------


## AmiMizuno

I'm curious. In the end, I guess Jason cares about his Batfam he just doesn't like how they aren't more about using violence? In the end you think he would get along more with Damian due to similar backgrounds with Ra and using violence.

----------


## Zaresh

> I'm curious. In the end, I guess Jason cares about his Batfam he just doesn't like how they aren't more about using violence? In the end you think he would get along more with Damian due to similar backgrounds with Ra and using violence.


Here goes my take.

Seems to me that the one who has a problem is Damian regarding Jason, not Jason regarding Damian, which is fair. Damian may fear that they could treat him the same way Jason is treated and looked upon half the time, once Damian's an adult. As well as Damian could want to strengthen his backing of Bruce's code, more than any other, because Damian's own past: killing is crossing the line. Which, eh. I guess it's not a thing anymore after Rebirth TT as far as I know, or maybe even before that, under Tomasi. Besides, I don't know if the times Jason has been the one to initiate aggression are all still canon or not. I guess some are, need to, in order for Jason's redemption to make sense.

Beyond that... I always thought that Jason's struggling with the batfam has more to do with them trying to dictate what's right or wrong when they are vigilantes themselves (who use violence to enforce with no qualms, even if they don't kill), and deal with criminals as allies from time to time. But Jason can be reasonable and respects them: he can compromise to certain degree. Also, I would say he definitely doesn't like a lot to be told how he should behave, or be strongly controlled. Seems to me that Jason's character has always have a problem with the control over his life being taken by others from himself. He's not obsessed about controlling others or controlling the situation, but he seems to strongly dislike not having a hold on his own life. Which is appropriate for someone with his background.

----------


## Sergard

Alex de Campi

Alex de Campi Twitter.jpg




Nick Robles

Nick Robles Twitter.jpg

----------


## Jackalope89

> Alex de Campi
> 
> Alex de Campi Twitter.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nick Robles
> 
> Nick Robles Twitter.jpg


Maybe she takes over after #50?

----------


## Zaresh

> Maybe she takes over after #50?


I don't think that's the case. Sounds a bit too confusing, but leads me to understand those tweets as her just wanting to write him.
But maybe?

Again, not a fan of the word damaged. And emo, err...
But Jason does suit the dark and troubled trope. And he's byronic at his soul at this point.

But maybe? We were suspecting it's someone relatively new and young. She would fit.

----------


## Rise

It's 2020 and Santori is still complaining about why people like Jason? I'm almost impressed.

----------


## Vakanai

> Alex de Campi
> 
> Alex de Campi Twitter.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nick Robles
> 
> Nick Robles Twitter.jpg


I don't know about the costume needing a redesign though.

----------


## Sergard

> Oh okay, I thought his name is Danny too


Chris was pretty forgettable. It didn't help much that he only had those two appearances, as far as I know, and Batman #0 and RHatO #25 are even a little contradictory. 
I would be really surprised if any future writer were to take up this character/storyline again. Although a good writer could probably turn this pebble into a diamond.




> Shouldn't that be in Barbara's thread?
> 
> [...]


You are welcome to post the fanart in the Barbara Gordon thread too. I'm sure Barbara Gordon fans would enjoy it.  :Smile: 
I posted it here for a few reasons: We have talked about Dan Mora's little tokusatsu batfamily project before. Jason is part of the fanart. The Red Robin announcement fit the overall Red Robin theme of my post. Artistically, it's interesting how Dan Mora moves the characters around so that the new additions have more space in the foreground. Batman's colors even look more fainted now that he's in the background compared to the original version. (Different example: a good while ago, Karl Mostert - the artist of DCeased Unkillables - did a more classic batfamily piece starting with Batman on a gigantic gargoyle. Mostert added batfamily members one by one but he didn't change anyone's position in the process. It was a different approach than what Dan Mora does now.)

Speaking of Dan Mora's tokusatsu batfamily project. Here's the updated version with Red Robin. You may want to share it in the Tim Drake appreciation thread too. Tim looks awesome.







> Maybe she takes over after #50?


Unlikely. In one of the comments, de Campi stated that she's currently ridiculously busy. And generally, the whole post reads like she _would like_ to write Jason and not that she's currently in the process of doing so. Whoever is writing beyond issue 50 is probably already finished with issue 51.





> I don't know about the costume needing a redesign though.


I'm fine with the current costume and the original Rebirth outfit. But I'd love to see a Red Hood design by Nick Robles.

----------


## RedBird

Speaking of Red Robin, did anyone else notice that unlike the black tights in the traditional version, Jasons Red Robin uniform in DITF seems to have kneepads, leg strap holsters and what appears to be shin guards, (though they could also be boots, its hard to tell). It's pretty reminiscent of his first rebirth outfit. I wonder if that was a deliberate choice, showing Jasons style remaining fairly consistent no matter the identity.

----------


## Sergard

Nick Robles

_"Jason Todd on the cover of Gotham Quarterly."_



From the comment section:

Alex de Campi

_"I FEEL ATTACKED, but also to blame, bcI know saying Jason Todd in a suit to you was the proverbial red rag to a bull"_

----------


## AmiMizuno

> Here goes my take.
> 
> Seems to me that the one who has a problem is Damian regarding Jason, not Jason regarding Damian, which is fair. Damian may fear that they could treat him the same way Jason is treated and looked upon half the time, once Damian's an adult. As well as Damian could want to strengthen his backing of Bruce's code, more than any other, because Damian's own past: killing is crossing the line. Which, eh. I guess it's not a thing anymore after Rebirth TT as far as I know, or maybe even before that, under Tomasi. Besides, I don't know if the times Jason has been the one to initiate aggression are all still canon or not. I guess some are, need to, in order for Jason's redemption to make sense.
> I
> Beyond that... I always thought that Jason's struggling with the batfam has more to do with them trying to dictate what's right or wrong when they are vigilantes themselves (who use violence to enforce with no qualms, even if they don't kill), and deal with criminals as allies from time to time. But Jason can be reasonable and respects them: he can compromise to certain degree. Also, I would say he definitely doesn't like a lot to be told how he should behave, or be strongly controlled. Seems to me that Jason's character has always have a problem with the control over his life being taken by others from himself. He's not obsessed about controlling others or controlling the situation, but he seems to strongly dislike not having a hold on his own life. Which is appropriate for someone with his background.


I can understand that. Makes you wonder should he have come back? I think that shows despite everything they are still family. Has he every  actually done things like dinner other family gathers?

----------


## Jackalope89

> I can understand that. Makes you wonder should he have come back? I think that shows despite everything they are still family. Has he every  actually done things like dinner other family gathers?


Honestly, outside of certain writers, Jason's portrayal within family gatherings is rarely flattering.

----------


## AmiMizuno

> Honestly, outside of certain writers, Jason's portrayal within family gatherings is rarely flattering.


Makes sense. Some writers don't really know how to write Jason. I mean how should he acted. He has a love-hate relationships

----------


## sifighter

I think some people are going to like DCeased dead planet today...for Jason at least. As I hoped we do get that nice reunion moment between him and Damian.

----------


## Jman27

> I think some people are going to like DCeased dead planet today...for Jason at least. As I hoped we do get that nice reunion moment between him and Damian.


yeah it was nice although Roy die pretty quick

----------


## Jackalope89

As I said in the Damian thread; it was 2 steps forward, 2 steps back. Jason and Cass reuniting with Damian was nice. But what happened to Shadowpact... Don't like it. Such is my love/hate relationship with Tom Taylor's works.

----------


## Hypo

> Nick Robles
> 
> _"Jason Todd on the cover of Gotham Quarterly."_
> 
> 
> 
> From the comment section:
> 
> Alex de Campi
> ...


de Campi added some lettering:

----------


## Sergard

> de Campi added some lettering:


"the arab billionaire solving global warming" - Sometimes I love a little dark humor  :Cool: 

I'd be down for Alex de Campi writing and Nick Robles drawing a Red Hood comic. They like the character and seem inspired. What more do you need?


On a different topic: Another "test page" by Vincenzo Viska Federici:

_ARTEMIS!
Continuing test pages.
#drawing #comics #inks @DCComics
 #redhood_

----------


## Jman27

> As I said in the Damian thread; it was 2 steps forward, 2 steps back. Jason and Cass reuniting with Damian was nice. But what happened to Shadowpact... Don't like it. Such is my love/hate relationship with Tom Taylor's works.


whats shadowpact?

----------


## Jackalope89

> whats shadowpact?


Constantine, Zatanna, Detective Chimp, and Blue Devil (in this iteration).

----------


## Sergard

> whats shadowpact?


From the DCeased: Dead Planet #2 preview:

----------


## Jman27

oh didnt know that had a name

----------


## Sergard

> As I said in the Damian thread; it was 2 steps forward, 2 steps back. Jason and Cass reuniting with Damian was nice. *But what happened to Shadowpact...* Don't like it. Such is my love/hate relationship with Tom Taylor's works.


That reminds me that Karl Mostert posted this on Twitter a month ago:

Karl Mostert twitter 01-07-2020.jpg


Since Ben Abernathy is the editor of the DCeased comics (and he obviously knows more about Karl Mostert's new project), maybe this means that we'll get a sequel to DCeased: Unkillables telling the story of the five missing years in which Shadowpact and Co. fought zombies and saved people.

----------


## Jackalope89

Yeah, I'm checking out on DCeased. I've loved the Jason stuff, and seeing him and Cass actually team up is pretty awesome. Even the Damian stuff has been interesting. 

But the unceremonious killing of characters, especially ones like Zatanna, Constantine, etc., not a fan. Its why I only checked Injustice 2 with the Lobo stuff.

----------


## Zaresh

Eh, I read it. As usual, I don't like how Taylor approaches drama, and felt rather indifferent about that scene; but I'm glad that I was wrong and we had that reunion scene. I hope I'm wrong about more things like that more often  :Big Grin: .

----------


## Sergard

Meet the Three Jokers: The Criminal, The Clownish, The Comedian - _Three Jokers_-Interview with Jason Fabok

It's admirable how strongly Jason Fabok promotes the book. Of course, he's the artist and he spent two years of his life on the artwork - but it's still admirable.




> *Nrama: The Joker has not only caused a lot of trauma for Batman, but Barbara Gordon and Jason Todd as well. How did you want to dig into these wounds with your art?
> *
> *Fabok:* The fun thing about this book was that I was able to draw a group of characters that I've never drawn before. I've drawn a lot of Batman stuff, but I never touched on the Joker much except for maybe a cover. I've never drawn Red Hood or Batgirl other than a few tiny panels here and there over the last few years. So, I really had a chance to get into these characters' heads.
> 
> Geoff and I discussed a lot about who these characters were and what our vision for them was in our story, and that really helped me to get into them and really just understand them. One of your jobs as an artist, essentially, you're the film director; like you're directing the shot, and you're directing the action and the emotion on the page, but you're also an actor in a way too.
> 
> So, a lot of the times you have to really read through the dialogue and you almost act it out yourself. When I was in school for animation that's what our teachers always told us: 'Try to act out the scene that you're trying to animate so that you can better understand how a person would move, talk, think, or the subtle little movements that they would do.' 
> 
> I do that a lot just with myself, I'll talk myself through the scene. So, I was really able to get into these characters and try to unlock some of the emotion behind what they're saying and what they're trying to portray. We feel that we've created some really compelling artwork and stories with these characters.
> ...

----------


## Sergard

XM Studios Red Hood 1/6 Premium Collectibles Statue is up for pre-order.
(follow link for more pictures and information)







> Product No.:      GIFT_20602
> Shippingtime:    Pre-Order Pre-Order 
> 3% Discount :    542,00 EUR - Purchase Option Full Payment
> Metal Plaque:     Until 09.08.2020 11:59 p.m. (GermanTimeZone)
> Limited :            MTO Edition Size (Max. 599)
> Deposit :           130,00 EUR
> Retail Price :      559,00 EUR
> Shipping:           Class A
> Weight:             10 kg per piece
> ...

----------


## TheCape

> Eh, I read it. *As usual, I don't like how Taylor approaches drama,* and felt rather indifferent about that scene; but I'm glad that I was wrong and we had that reunion scene. I hope I'm wrong about more things like that more often .


Could you elaborate on that, please? i'm curious about your opinion.

----------


## AmiMizuno

In generally how should his relationship be with each of the Batkids be? I mean I don't mind if it's a love hate relationship. I do think they are still bros despite everything

----------


## Zaresh

> Could you elaborate on that, please? i'm curious about your opinion.


Oophh, let's see if I can put it in words. It's just an opinion, not a fact; that, I want to make it clear first.
I find Taylor's sense of drama... gimmicky, I guess? It's mostly based in the shock it causes, no matter if it has had a proper build up to get to that point. It also tends to appeal to the reader's previous affection to the characters involved: not the affection build in the story it's telling there, but the story outside, in other comics. It also feels like it's asking me "please, cry and feel sad now," somehow forcing me to feel bad, which usually doesn't sit me right when I'm reading or watching a story. And it is toooo fast for me, I guess.

I also doesn't like melodrama a lot. I mean, I've liked some soap dramas, but it's not the kind of story I usually like. Unbelieabable, for someone who read X-Men and TItans and stuff, I know  :Big Grin: .

As I said, it's a me thing. People usually like his drama, but I usualy don't like it. I like how fun and over the top he can be at timss though.

----------


## Sergard

The cover of _Batman: The Adventures Continue_ (2020-) chapter 10 has been revealed.



Also, Leslie Thompkins will have an appearance in the comic.

Ty Templeton

_"One of my favourite characters, created by the great Denny O'Neil....Batman's put-upon surrogate mom. Whenever costumed teenagers are brutalized, she appears. I love my job. "_

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> "In this version of the classic tale, writer Phillip Kennedy Johnson and artist Dexter Soy pose the question: What if Tommy had ruined Bruce Wayne's life when they were children?" reads DC's official description of Tales From the Dark Multiverse: Hush.
> 
> "Tommy Elliot grew up to be the Dark Prince of Gotham City with help of Talia al Ghul, Oswald Cobblepot, Harvey Dent, and *Jason Todd*! But vengeance is coming in the form of Batman the Silenced...who will tear Tommy's life apart!"
> 
> Tales From the Dark Multiverse – Batman: Hush #1 is due out November 3.


Oh boy, that is not how I expected to see Dexter going back to Jason. 

https://www.gamesradar.com/hush-and-...rse-treatment/

----------


## sifighter

Wait...is anyone else getting Stephanie Brown flashbacks here in Adventures Continue? We have a character who at one point dressed up as Robin and is thought by Batman to be dead (Jason, obviously) and now Leslie Thompkins is talking to Batman. I'm feeling a fake his death to retire instead of lazarus pits resurrection here.

----------


## Zaresh

> Wait...is anyone else getting Stephanie Brown flashbacks here in Adventures Continue? We have a character who at one point dressed up as Robin and is thought by Batman to be dead (Jason, obviously) and now Leslie Thompkins is talking to Batman. I'm feeling a fake his death to retire instead of lazarus pits resurrection here.


We don't really know much about Leslie's role in the story yet, do we? And it's not like Jason and Leslie didn't have a precedent link between both before that. It's not a big role in his story, as much as she had in Steph's; but Leslie appears in some old story of Jason (pre-COIE, iirc, or maybe in between pre and post COIE); and she appears then again as being in Jason's "neighbourhood" in the New 52 origin story. And then there's the thing about her operating in that part of the city, that would make them meeting each other likeable.

----------


## Sergard

> As I said in the Damian thread; it was 2 steps forward, 2 steps back. Jason and Cass reuniting with Damian was nice. *But what happened to Shadowpact*... Don't like it. Such is my love/hate relationship with Tom Taylor's works.


Maybe the textless preview of DCeased: Dead Planet #3 makes you feel a little better?





> Oh boy, that is not how I expected to see Dexter going back to Jason. 
> 
> https://www.gamesradar.com/hush-and-...rse-treatment/


I'm actually curious about that story. And it's Dexter Soy drawing Jason. That's already pretty irresistible. 
Although, to be honest, I had already completely forgotten about the "Tales From the Dark Multiverse" line. But it's not that surprising either. DC is giving us currently a lot of big stuff: more DCeased, more Metal, more Injustice, Batman: The Adventures Continue, generally a lot of Batman, Harley Quinn and Joker, etc. - all the stuff that's guaranteed to sell decently. We are still in the middle of the corona crisis, so I guess DC wants to play it safe.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Maybe the textless preview of DCeased: Dead Planet #3 makes you feel a little better?


A little, but still gonna pass on it.

----------


## Zaresh

> A little, but still gonna pass on it.


No way John's going to disappear from the book, mate. He can survive a nuclear wasteland if he has to as if nothing.  Or at least old John was like that. I think he carried that trait into the New 52.

----------


## sifighter

> Maybe the textless preview of DCeased: Dead Planet #3 makes you feel a little better?


I’m glad to see that some of the team made it, but I’m honestly surprised that dc would show this off. Kind of takes the wind out of the sails if you ask me. Still interested to see what happens next though.

----------


## Jackalope89

> No way John's going to disappear from the book, mate. He can survive a nuclear wasteland if he has to as if nothing.  Or at least old John was like that. I think he carried that trait into the New 52.


In all honesty, I checked out of most of Injustice and Injustice 2 for similar reasons. I only popped into Injustice 2 for the Lobo part where he became a Green Lantern.

----------


## Light of Justice

What kind of relationship Jason had with Superman? We know that Dick is really close with Superman, Superman interacted with Tim through Kon, and interacted with Damian through Jon. But Bizarro is not close with Superman, even he only has his doll. So did they ever interacted with each other, and what kind of relationship they have? I am a new DC fans, and I don't recall any interaction between Superman and Jason on Rebirth. Perhaps on New52 or Silver Age era? The reason I asked this because of this page :



I don't like how this page implied Superman doesn't know that Bruce also raised Jason as his adopted son, although Jason is Batman's first adopted son. And even though I prefer Jason stay away from Batman family mess, Jason is also one of Batman's legacy. So, are they really not close so Superman made that mistake? or is it one of Taylor's weird writing? We know that he doesn't care much about Robins except Damian (and sometimes it's not a good thing for Damian fans, he's still the one who created the infamous Dick-killer Injustice Damian).

----------


## K7P5V

> What kind of relationship Jason had with Superman? We know that Dick is really close with Superman, Superman interacted with Tim through Kon, and interacted with Damian through Jon. But Bizarro is not close with Superman, even he only has his doll. So did they ever interacted with each other, and what kind of relationship they have? I am a new DC fans, and I don't recall any interaction between Superman and Jason on Rebirth. Perhaps on New52 or Silver Age era?


Jason & Superman seemed to be friendly towards one another and had interactions in...

*Superman Annual #11*

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> What kind of relationship Jason had with Superman? We know that Dick is really close with Superman, Superman interacted with Tim through Kon, and interacted with Damian through Jon. But Bizarro is not close with Superman, even he only has his doll. So did they ever interacted with each other, and what kind of relationship they have? I am a new DC fans, and I don't recall any interaction between Superman and Jason on Rebirth. Perhaps on New52 or Silver Age era? The reason I asked this because of this page :
> 
> 
> 
> I don't like how this page implied Superman doesn't know that Bruce also raised Jason as his adopted son, although Jason is Batman's first adopted son. And even though I prefer Jason stay away from Batman family mess, Jason is also one of Batman's legacy. So, are they really not close so Superman made that mistake? or is it one of Taylor's weird writing? We know that he doesn't care much about Robins except Damian (and sometimes it's not a good thing for Damian fans, he's still the one who created the infamous Dick-killer Injustice Damian).


In the N52 Superbro was friendly to Jason for the most part but current Superman hasn't had any proper interaction with Jason at all.

----------


## Zaresh

> In the N52 Superbro was friendly to Jason for the most part but current Superman hasn't had any proper interaction with Jason at all.


Current Superman is a mix of new 52 and pre-crisis (I think it was pre-Crisis, the one in Convergence) Superman, so he should remember Jason from the annual 11. New 52 Superman, who was straight  new Origin did carried that bit from "For the man who has everything." I think remember SuperBro mentioning that Jason saved his live in RHatO New 52 (and that story was pre-COIE-ish, I think). So I can hope that Clark's still friendly towards Jason.

----------


## Sergard

Dexter Soy

Dexter Soy 07-08-2020.jpg

----------


## TheCape

> What kind of relationship Jason had with Superman? We know that Dick is really close with Superman, Superman interacted with Tim through Kon, and interacted with Damian through Jon. But Bizarro is not close with Superman, even he only has his doll. So did they ever interacted with each other, and what kind of relationship they have? I am a new DC fans, and I don't recall any interaction between Superman and Jason on Rebirth. Perhaps on New52 or Silver Age era? The reason I asked this because of this page :
> 
> 
> 
> I don't like how this page implied Superman doesn't know that Bruce also raised Jason as his adopted son, although Jason is Batman's first adopted son. And even though I prefer Jason stay away from Batman family mess, Jason is also one of Batman's legacy. So, are they really not close so Superman made that mistake? or is it one of Taylor's weird writing? We know that he doesn't care much about Robins except Damian (and sometimes it's not a good thing for Damian fans, he's still the one who created the infamous Dick-killer Injustice Damian).


From where is that page?

----------


## Sergard

> From where is that page?


Injustice: Year Zero (2020-) #2 (preview)

----------


## Sergard

Summary for Batman: The Adventures Continue (2020-) Chapter #11 is out:




> Batman's clash with Jason Todd continues as he hunts for information on his former boy wonder. Meanwhile, Alfred recounts Jason's last days as Robin to Tim.


Digital Release Date
August 27 2020

----------


## Sergard

Here are some Jason Todd/Red Hood designs that I found online.

art.robins

_"Cyber! Red Hood design"_



soy yo (Star Wars inspired)




Glen Canlas

----------


## Zaresh

I've finished with adding in* that Notion table* all those fics in our old fic lists. I left out a few of them because they seem to be either discontinued (haven't been updated in a year and half) or don't have enough content yet to make for a long read, even if they're on hold or on going. From this point onwards, I'll add new works, either recent or old, that I've found. As usual, feel free to add your picks there too. Just, remember to put tags and info there. If you want to find the most recent recorded works in the table, just sort the table by the last column (recording date) instead of the first one (Title).

_Friendly warning_: while looking for a work, *mind the multiple tags* in the "Age target" and the "Ships and Warnings" columns. There's not Explicit age target, but there's an actual Explicit Content tag in the ships / warnings.

The following links are the guides about how to look for tags, and what they mean. For searching into the table, copy the tags of your choice in your browser's search tool.
The list will be updated as new tags are being added.

Tags in the Ships and Warnings column.
Tags in the Themes, Genres and Tropes column.

----------


## Sergard

> I've finished with adding in* that Notion table* all those fics in our old fic lists. I left out a few of them because they seem to be either discontinued (haven't been updated in a year and half) or don't have enough content yet to make for a long read, even if they're on hold or on going. From this point onwards, I'll add new works, either recent or old, that I've found. As usual, feel free to add your picks there too. Just, remember to put tags and info there. If you want to find the most recent recorded works in the table, just sort the table by the last column (recording date) instead of the first one (Title).
> 
> Friendly warning: while looking for a work, *mind the multiple tags* in the "Age target" and the "Ships / Triggers" columns. There's not Explicit age target, but there's an actual Explicit Content tag in the ships / triggers.
> 
> (Btw, "Autumn of Life" seems to have been deleted from AO3. I don't have any other link so I've had to leave it out)


Thank you for all the hard work, I've updated the links in the OP  :Big Grin: 



inkydandy

----------


## Sergard

> Developed a bit of a crush on Diana in "Man Who Has Everything" when he was Robin. Teamed up with Donna not only in the NTT but after they both came back (and put up with Kyle). And now in a kind of grey area with Artemis. More than friends, but neither quite willing to admit their feelings for the other. And, while not Amazons, he's also gotten along well with Supergirl, friends with Starfire, and dated Ravager.
> 
> The guy clearly tends to be close with very strong women; both literally and metaphorically.


Fun fact: Jason Todd's first appearance was in #357. But the first time he talks was in Detective Comics #525.

The first instance is him noticing Robin (Dick Grayson) (and it's not talking but only thinking):



And then he's left alone with Dick and he immediately wants to know how Wonder Girl is like:

----------


## Konja7

> Fun fact: Jason Todd's first appearance was in #357. But the first time he talks was in Detective Comics #525.
> 
> The first instance is him noticing Robin (Dick Grayson) (and it's not talking but only thinking):
> 
> 
> 
> And then he's left alone with Dick and he immediately wants to know how Wonder Girl is like:


Who was the person Dick was speaking at the end?

----------


## Sergard

> Who was the person Dick was speaking at the end?


You mean the blond boy in pink? That's pre-crisis Jason Todd.
The two people who leave the room are his pre-crisis parents: Trina and Joseph Todd.

----------


## Zaresh

> Thank you for all the hard work, I've updated the links in the OP


It's been my pleasure  :Cool: 
I mean, I find this kind of task relaxing.
And it makes easier adding new stuff each time I find some work I've enjoyed.
And I wanted to see what I can do with this app.

----------


## Konja7

> You mean the blond boy in pink? That's pre-crisis Jason Todd.
> The two people who leave the room are his pre-crisis parents: Trina and Joseph Todd.


No. I know the blond boy is Jason. 

Dick says Jason reminds him of someone. So, I was curious who was this "someone".

----------


## Restingvoice

> No. I know the blond boy is Jason. 
> 
> Dick says Jason reminds him of someone. So, I was curious who was this "someone".


He reminds him of himself.

----------


## Konja7

> He reminds him of himself.


Thanks for the clarification.

----------


## Sergard

> No. I know the blond boy is Jason. 
> 
> Dick says Jason reminds him of someone. So, I was curious who was this "someone".


Sorry for the misunderstanding.
And as Restingvoice has already answered: Dick himself is this someone.

Dick had quite the part in Jason's pre-crisis origin. Dick made friends with Jason's mother Trina. And although this origin is very close to Dick's own, there's also some legacy aspect to it: Jason's mother had looked up to Dick's parents when she was a kid; they had been her heroes.

From Batman #358:



Later, Dick is devastated by Trina's death... (#Detective Comics 526):




... and even wants to adopt Jason. But in the end, it's Bruce who takes Jason in. (also Detective Comics #526)

----------


## Zaresh

Dick's also the one who gives* Robin to Jason when he's wondering about his own hero ID.

----------


## Sergard

> Dick's also the one who give Robin to Jason when he's wondering about his own hero ID.


Oh yeah, that was in Batman #368.
Sure, DC had to go with Robin because of merchandise, etc. but it's still an interesting thought what would have happened if Jason had had a different ID.

Apparently, Jason likes the Wonder family but wouldn't have liked to be Wonder-Boy - because it sounds like bread. Which is a little funny because "Jason loves bread" is nowadays a little insider "joke" ("joke" because it's actually not funny when one knows the origin from Batman Annual #25).

Personally, I like Bluejay because it's also a little reference to his own name. I hadn't realized that Cardinal was one of the options back then too. Nowadays, Cardinal is more known as a hot contender under fans for Tim Drake's new identity.

But I do wonder why Jason thought that it would be good idea to ask Bruce for his opinion on a name. The guy calls himself Batman, sits in his batcave, drives his batmobile, waits for the batsignal and throws batarangs at criminals. He would probably have named Jason Bat-Boy.

----------


## Zaresh

Kid Dynamite... The pun is hidden there.

Also, Tonto? Whaaaat? That's "idiot" or "moron" in Spanish. Does it mean anything else in English? It's some kind of pop culture reference?

----------


## TheCape

> Kid Dynamite... The pun is hidden there.
> 
> Also, Tonto? Whaaaat? That's "idiot" or "moron" in Spanish. Does it mean anything else in English? It's some kind of pop culture reference?


I think that Tonto was the name of the Lone Ranger partner who was a native american. I don't know if it has any meaning on english, maybe they thougth that i sounded funny?

----------


## Zaresh

> I think that Tonto was the name of the Lone Ranger partner who was a native american. I don't know if it has any meaning on english, maybe they thougth that i sounded funny?


Ah, it could be that it's referencing the Lone Ranger (I can totally see that). That character apparently is called Toro in Spanish, which does ring some bell for me. Even if I'm probably mixing him with some other "sidekick" (the original Human Torch's sidekick).

----------


## TheCape

> Ah, it could be that it's referencing the Lone Ranger (I can totally see that). That character apparently is called Toro in Spanish, which does ring some bell for me. Even if I'm probably mixing him with some other "sidekick" (the original Human Torch's sidekick).


I'm pretty sure that they called him Tonto in the hispanic dub (i can't confirm thougth i only watched 3 episodes and was like 13 years ago), but yeah Toro sounds better, at least implies strength. I always forget that the original human torch was called Toro.

----------


## Zaresh

> I'm pretty sure that they called him Tonto in the hispanic dub (i can't confirm thougth i only watched 3 episodes and was like 13 years ago), but yeah Toro sounds better, at least implies strength. I always forget that the original human torch was called Toro.


Also, "Toro Sentado" was pretty much the name of every cheap version of a native american leader here, back in the day--being the actual Sitting Bull or not. I guess they were coming from there when they changed his name. It's a very spaniard thing to do, to be honest, so they most probably didn't change it over there.

(Toro was Jim's sidekick, not Jim (OG Human Torch) himself. Can't remember Toro's actual name. Maybe Tony? Something like that)

----------


## TheCape

> Also, "Toro Sentado" was pretty much the name of every cheap version of a native american leader here, back in the day--being the actual Sitting Bull or not. I guess they were coming from there when they changed his name. It's a very spaniard thing to do, to be honest, so they most probably didn't change it over there.
> 
> (Toro was Jim's sidekick, not Jim (OG Human Torch) himself. Can't remember Toro's actual name. Maybe Tony? Something like that)


Old dubs can be pretty ramdom when it comes to what they decide to change around here, at least in those times, i will never forget the likes of "La Aguja Dinamica"  :Stick Out Tongue: .

Man my knowledge of the Invaders is even worse that i remember, but hey maybe Jason was really refering to Jim's sidekick in that story, i wonder if Moench did work with the group on Marvel.

----------


## Zaresh

> Old dubs can be pretty ramdom when it comes to what they decide to change around here, at least in those times, *i will never forget the likes of "La Aguja Dinamica"* .
> 
> Man my knowledge of the Invaders is even worse that i remember, but hey maybe Jason was really refering to Jim's sidekick in that story, i wonder if Moench did work with the group on Marvel.


Asdfff... Gorgeous! So beautiful.

----------


## Restingvoice

> I think that Tonto was the name of the Lone Ranger partner who was a native american. I don't know if it has any meaning on english, maybe they thougth that i sounded funny?


I looked it up

Show creator Trendle grew up in Michigan and knew members of the local Potawatomi tribe, who told him Tonto meant "wild one" in their language. When he created the Lone Ranger, he gave the moniker to the Ranger's sidekick, apparently unaware of the name's negative connotations in Italian, Spanish and Portuguese.

----------


## TheCape

> I looked it up
> 
> Show creator Trendle grew up in Michigan and knew members of the local Potawatomi tribe, who told him Tonto meant "wild one" in their language. When he created the Lone Ranger, he gave the moniker to the Ranger's sidekick, apparently unaware of the name's negative connotations in Italian, Spanish and Portuguese.


That explains it, thanks for the info  :Smile:

----------


## Aahz

> apparently unaware of the name's negative connotations in Italian, Spanish and Portuguese.


Stuff like this happens, I mean there was Mitsubishi "Pajero" ...

----------


## Zaresh

> I looked it up
> 
> Show creator Trendle grew up in Michigan and knew members of the local Potawatomi tribe, who told him Tonto meant "wild one" in their language. When he created the Lone Ranger, he gave the moniker to the Ranger's sidekick, apparently unaware of the name's negative connotations in Italian, Spanish and Portuguese.


Oh, cool. I like "The Wild One". Sounds nice for a partner's name. It's a pity how much of a misleading meaning it has in other languages.




> Stuff like this happens, I mean there was Mitsubishi "Pajero" ...


Aasds... I think I heard about that one once. I also wonder how it is that they didn't change "Laputa" in that Miyazaki movie for something less awkward sounding. I think there was another car branded with that name that they changed into something else? I don't know if it was Mitsubishi too, or some other maker.

----------


## Sergard

Father Todd by JJMK (There are also versions of Damian al Ghul, Savior Tim Drake and Talon Dick Grayson)





fishtre

----------


## Jackalope89

You know, Father Todd almost sounds like he could be in a Hellsing kind of setting. Just knowing the regular Jason, and then the Father Todd version and all. I know Father Todd wasn't, but it would be an interesting Elseworlds.

----------


## Restingvoice

Ooh. Father Todd vs The Monk and Dala. I don't think he's faced them before.
Or, if you want a sexy team up, Father Todd and Andrew Bennett vs Cain The First Vampire

----------


## Zaresh

> Ooh. Father Todd vs The Monk and Dala. I don't think he's faced them before.
> Or, if you want a sexy team up, Father Todd and Andrew Bennett vs Cain The First Vampire


What about throwing in Vertigo's Lucifer? Sexy dude, he is.

----------


## Aahz

> I think there was another car branded with that name that they changed into something else? I don't know if it was Mitsubishi too, or some other maker.


I think the changed the name of the "Pajero" in Spanish speaking countries, and continued to use it in the rest of the world.

----------


## Zaresh

> I think the changed the name of the "Pajero" in Spanish speaking countries, and continued to use it in the rest of the world.


It's the Montero here, which definitely sounds better. Found the one for Laputa, it was a Mazda, that apparently wasn't sold here. But I do remember reading the news about that car. 

I'm sorry about all this off topic stuff, but it's fun and interesting, so maybe I'm not so sorry  :Big Grin: .

----------


## Sergard

Paolo Pantalena (textless version)



Paolo Pantalena (mouthless version)

_"Some fans don't like the "classic" new 52 mask of Jason, so here's a little edit to make everyone happy, because I listen my fans"_

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

The N52 look with a featureless helmet is absolutely perfect.

----------


## AJpyro

Read the latest RHatO and it was Ok. 

*spoilers:*
Dont like the inclusion of Trigon tho. Prefer if Lobdell made OC villains to fill Jason's RGs.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

The recent shakeups at DC are making me anxious about Jason's future.

----------


## Jackalope89

> The recent shakeups at DC are making me anxious about Jason's future.


Same. Went from wondering what will happen with Jason after #50, to if there will be _any_ Jason after #50.

----------


## Konja7

> Same. Went from wondering what will happen with Jason after #50, to if there will be _any_ Jason after #50.


I think Jason is likely one of the safest characters, because the concept about the Robin who died and resurrected as antihero is pretty popular. 

I wish that was not the main aspect that saves him, but it is what we have.

Now, Jason will likely loss his solo. So, I don't know where he will appear.

----------


## Rise

He is a bat character, he will be fine and won't disappear (that the benfit of being related to Batman to people who wanted Jason to be cut off from him).

Having his own book tho? It's a pretty slim chance, but not completely impossible.

----------


## Zaresh

I'm not especially worried about Jason's future. I have a hunch, I think they'll put him in a digital ongoing. It's just this feel I have, but I strongly feel it like a likeable possibility despite having no base or proof for it. Just my intuition.

----------


## Konja7

> I'm not especially worried about Jason's future. I have a hunch, I think they'll put him in a digital ongoing. It's just this feel I have, but I strongly feel it like a likeable possibility despite having no base or proof for it. Just my intuition.


Jason appears in Titans Together (a digital comic). 

So, DC may put him in a Titans digital comic.

----------


## Zaresh

> Jason appears in Titans Together (a digital comic). 
> 
> So, DC may put him in a Titans digital comic.


The TAS comic is a digital first too, with a webcomic-like format. And the new writer is apparently new talent, or newer, right? It's a very wild guess now, but...

----------


## Sergard

> Read the latest RHatO and it was Ok. 
> 
> *spoilers:*
> Dont like the inclusion of Trigon tho. Prefer if Lobdell made OC villains to fill Jason's RGs.
> *end of spoilers*


Agreed. Or

*spoilers:*
if it really had had to be an already existing character, they could have used Neron. There's at least a little connection between Neron and Jason. And I straight out think that Trigon is a boring character that only works for stories with Raven.
*end of spoilers*





> I'm not especially worried about Jason's future. I have a hunch, I think they'll put him in a digital ongoing. It's just this feel I have, but I strongly feel it like a likeable possibility despite having no base or proof for it. Just my intuition.


I don't doubt that Jason will hang around in some form. Time will tell in which one exactly - and if it will be good.
In general, putting bigger attention to digital releases and an international audience while reducing monthly floppies in favor of other formats that are easier accessible in bookstores for a potentially bigger readership doesn't sound bad in itself. This even reminds me of one comment by Alex de Campi about Jason's natural target audience:




> Alex de Campi
> 
> Attachment 99345


So very theoretically and if we are very optimistic, then Jason Todd - and some other DC characters who don't fit the classic superhero scheme but can appeal to readers outside of the superhero fan community - could be one of the winners of the current changes.





> Jason appears in Titans Together (a digital comic). 
> 
> So, DC may put him in a Titans digital comic.


I'm not sure if Titans: Titans Together will be continued. The last chapter was released on July 16 2020 and I haven't seen any word on a continuation.






> The TAS comic is a digital first too, with a webcomic-like format. And the new writer is apparently new talent, or newer, right? It's a very wild guess now, but...


At least we'll have the next chapter digitally released tomorrow. Some good news this week.  :Big Grin:

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Lobdell tied the Untitled to Trigon since the start, so it doesn't make any sense to pull a different demonic entity now.

----------


## Sergard

Alex de Campi

Alex de Campi Twitter 13-08-2020.jpg

----------


## Zaresh

Yeah, she wants to write him. She's prety vocal about it. But I think we can cross her out now. It's clear she's not The One this time ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

----------


## Sergard

> Yeah, she wants to write him. She's prety vocal about it. But I think we can cross her out now. It's clear she's not The One this time ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.


Oh, sorry if there is some kind of misunderstanding. I never expected her to be the next Red Hood writer. I just like to share her posts. She likes the character - and as fan it's nice to know that there are writers who'd like to write the character.


The new Batman: The Adventures Continue chapter is an emotional rollercoaster.

----------


## Zaresh

> Oh, sorry if there is some kind of misunderstanding. I never expected her to be the next Red Hood writer. I just like to share her posts. She likes the character - and as fan it's nice to know that there are writers who'd like to write the character.
> 
> 
> The new Batman: The Adventures Continue chapter is an emotional rollercoaster.


Gaaarrh, I just left home. I need to come back already to read it T_T.

----------


## Rise

Alfred was annoyingly sumg and unsympathetic in TNB.

Other than that, it's nice to see Bruce being portrayed as a decent human being for once.

----------


## Sergard

Red Hood Fan Series: Check Out the Season 3 Trailer Here (Exclusive)

The trailer looks good.




There are many references in _Batman: The Adventures Continue_ Chapter #10. They made my head spin a little bit.

----------


## Zaresh

We have the solicit for 51 already. Read it elsewhere.

Seems like it was, in fact the first one for the new team. The series isn't relaunch, I think. But it's rebranded again. From now on, it seems like it's just RED HOOD. Writer isn't exactly new to comic books, but he's new to writing. The new artist art is pretty cool. Summary for 51 seems street level stuff, but I like the premise so far. I don't know why, but it gives me some New-Vertigo vibes. And it's not the art.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

The solicit in question.


RED HOOD #51

Written by SHAWN MARTINBROUGH

Art by TONY AKINS

Cover by DAN MORA variant

Variant cover by KAEL NGU

A new era begins for the Red Hood! With his Outlaw days behind him, Jason Todd returns home to Gotham City. While he plots what's next for Red Hood, he tracks down a childhood friend now living in the Hill. As Gotham City reels from the effects of "The Joker War," Jason finds himself caught in the crossfire between vigilante protectors of the historic neighborhood and a rising criminal element intent on seizing power!

32 pages, $3.99, in stores on Nov. 24.



Seems interesting, let's see where it goes. I hope they ditch the bargain bin MK ninja outfit tho.

----------


## Rise

Oh man, finally I can read a Red Hood book again and they even dropped the outlaws (sorry I liked you, but good riddance)!

Did they release a cover?

----------


## redmax99

what's the car brand

----------


## Zaresh

> Oh man, finally I can read a Red Hood book again and they even dropped the outlaws (sorry I liked you, but good riddance)!
> 
> Did they release a cover?


Isn't it the picture attached to the solicit?
Edit: nevermind. You most probably posted before Dark added the pic.

----------


## Aahz

> what's the car brand


Looks like an old Ford Mustang to me, based on the pictures on wikipedia I would guess the 1969 version.

----------


## RedBird

> what's the car brand


Looks like a 'Boss 429 Mustang' 1969 or a 'Mustang Mach 1'.

Fun fact, that is the same car John Wick drives  :Big Grin: .

----------


## TheCape

> Looks like a 'Boss 429 Mustang' 1969 or a 'Mustang Mach 1'.
> 
> Fun fact, that is the same car John Wick drives .


Clearly the main reason behind giving the dog to Isabel, Jason saw the movie and knew how it would end  :Wink:

----------


## Jackalope89

Won't lie, gonna miss the Outlaws.

----------


## Rise

> Isn't it the picture attached to the solicit?
> Edit: nevermind. You most probably posted before Dark added the pic.


Nothing show up to me, but I already saw it elsewhere.

----------


## Zaresh

It just occurred to me.

The friend, maybe the friend is a girl.
And she's the girl in the cover.

Hmmmm...
And that other there is Killer Croc, I guess.

----------


## Sergard

I feel like this cover, or more specifically Robin's pose, is a reference to something.
Was there ever a similar Batman or Detective Comics cover?


BATMAN: THE ADVENTURES CONTINUE #6






> written by ALAN BURNETT and PAUL DINI
> art by TY TEMPLETON and MARK MORALES
> cover by KHARY RANDOLPH
> variant cover by KAARE ANDREWS
> ON SALE 11/3/20
> $3.99 US | 32 PAGES | 6 OF 7 | FC | DC
> Batmans clash with Jason Todd continues as he hunts for information on his former Boy Wonder. Meanwhile, Alfred recounts Jasons rampage against the criminal underbelly of Gotham City and what led him to a confrontation with the Clown Prince of Crime, The Joker!

----------


## Jackalope89

> It just occurred to me.
> 
> The friend, maybe the friend is a girl.
> And she's the girl in the cover.
> 
> Hmmmm...
> And that other there is Killer Croc, I guess.


Well, Jason and Croc have worked together, amicably, before. I don't know if I would call them friends, but they're not enemies either.

----------


## Restingvoice

> I feel like this cover, or more specifically Robin's pose, is a reference to something.
> Was there ever a similar Batman or Detective Comics cover?
> 
> 
> BATMAN: THE ADVENTURES CONTINUE #6


Is that...
Oh
Oh
That's Jason. The costume is closer to Dick's BTAS costume, which is based on Tim's comic costume. 
I have to think first because I don't remember if Tim went straight to his black and red costume or not ^^

----------


## Zaresh

> Is that...
> Oh
> Oh
> That's Jason. The costume is closer to Dick's BTAS costume, which is based on Tim's comic costume. 
> I have to think first because I don't remember if Tim went straight to his black and red costume or not ^^


And I think the cover that @Sergard is reminded of is one with Tim as Robin, actually.
Tim in BTAS went directly for the black and red costume, if I recall.

----------


## Restingvoice

TALES FROM THE DARK MULTIVERSE: BATMAN: HUSH #1

Tommy Elliot grew up to be the Dark Prince of Gotham City with the help of Talia al Ghul, Oswald Cobblepot, Harvey Dent, and Jason Todd! But vengeance is coming in the form of Batman the Silenced...who will tear Tommy’s life apart! Written by rising star Phillip Kennedy Johnson (The Last God) with jaw-dropping artwork from Dexter Soy (Batman and the Outsiders)!

The cover features Batman The Silenced defeating Talia, Oswald, Harvey, and what I thought to be ginger Jason because Batman The Silenced is supposed to be Hush, but no, it's Tommy. Batman The Silenced would be Jason then.

https://www.gamesradar.com/dc-novemb...solicitations/

----------


## Sergard

> TALES FROM THE DARK MULTIVERSE: BATMAN: HUSH #1
> 
> Tommy Elliot grew up to be the Dark Prince of Gotham City with the help of Talia al Ghul, Oswald Cobblepot, Harvey Dent, and Jason Todd! But vengeance is coming in the form of Batman the Silenced...who will tear Tommys life apart! Written by rising star Phillip Kennedy Johnson (The Last God) with jaw-dropping artwork from Dexter Soy (Batman and the Outsiders)!
> 
> The cover features Batman The Silenced defeating Talia, Oswald, Harvey, and what I thought to be ginger Jason because Batman The Silenced is supposed to be Hush, but no, it's Tommy. Batman The Silenced would be Jason then.
> 
> https://www.gamesradar.com/dc-novemb...solicitations/




I was under the impression that Batman The Silenced is Bruce Wayne whose life was ruined as child by Tommy. I don't think Jason is on the cover. But I could be wrong.




> Following the smash success of last years Tales from the Dark Multiverse series, DC returns with five new tales that explore dark, twisted timelines spinning out some of DCs most iconic stories. It begins with the story that kicked off the modern era for Batman...Hush! The landmark story introduced Bruce Waynes childhood friend Tommy Elliot as he tried to destroy the Dark Knight..*.but what if Tommy had ruined Bruces life when they were children?*
> Tommy Elliot grew up to be the Dark Prince of Gotham City with the help of Talia al Ghul, Oswald Cobblepot, Harvey Dent, and Jason Todd! But vengeance is coming in the form of Batman the Silenced...who will tear Tommys life apart! Written by rising star Phillip Kennedy Johnson (The Last God) with jaw-dropping artwork from Dexter Soy (Batman and the Outsiders)!

----------


## Zaresh

> TALES FROM THE DARK MULTIVERSE: BATMAN: HUSH #1
> 
> Tommy Elliot grew up to be the Dark Prince of Gotham City with the help of Talia al Ghul, Oswald Cobblepot, Harvey Dent, and Jason Todd! But vengeance is coming in the form of Batman the Silenced...who will tear Tommy’s life apart! Written by rising star Phillip Kennedy Johnson (The Last God) with jaw-dropping artwork from Dexter Soy (Batman and the Outsiders)!
> 
> The cover features Batman The Silenced defeating Talia, Oswald, Harvey, and what I thought to be ginger Jason because Batman The Silenced is supposed to be Hush, but no, it's Tommy. Batman The Silenced would be Jason then.
> 
> https://www.gamesradar.com/dc-novemb...solicitations/


I think the ginger guy is Jim Gordon, actually.
I wonder how in heavens could Jason help Tommy grow up into any kind of prince, dark or not, if he's like half his age. I mean. Isn't Elliot Bruce's age? That means that a teenager would help a crime lord into becoming a crime lord.

----------


## Sergard

> *I think the ginger guy is Jim Gordon, actually.*
> I wonder how in heavens could Jason help Tommy grow up into any kind of prince, dark or not, if he's like half his age. I mean. Isn't Elliot Bruce's age? That means that a teenager would help a crime lord into becoming a crime lord.


In the end it's going to be Jimmy Olsen  :Big Grin:

----------


## Zaresh

> In the end it's going to be Jimmy Olsen


Psss... Could be. Jimmy is a charming dude that just finds his way.

----------


## chachi

Red Hood 51. Willing to give the new direction a chance. Anyone know anything about the creative team?

----------


## Arsenal

Honestly, I’m just glad Red Hood gets to continue. Hopefully the book will do well enough that DC will keep it going. 

Even if they aren’t main characters of the book anymore, I do hope the Outlaws will pop in every now & then in some capacity.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Honestly, I’m just glad Red Hood gets to continue. Hopefully the book will do well enough that DC will keep it going. 
> 
> Even if they aren’t main characters of the book anymore, I do hope the Outlaws will pop in every now & then in some capacity.


Same here.

----------


## Hypo

> Red Hood 51. Willing to give the new direction a chance. Anyone know anything about the creative team?


I believe this is Shawn Martinbrough's comics writing debut, only prior comics work of his I'm familiar with is the Detective issues he drew when Rucka was writing the book.

Tony Akins rotated in for Cliff Chiang when he needed a break on him and Azzarello's New 52 WW book and also worked on Jack of Fables.

Anyways looks like these guys are only for an arc:



"The Hill" is from Batman: The Hill:

_Following an incident on the Hill, a predominantly black area of Gotham, James Gordon is heavily criticised by the press for his inability to maintain law and order there. Batman also finds it difficult to have any effect there, as the people (particularly Korlee, the prime mover and shaker in the Hill's criminal world) do not believe that he exists in any meaningful way. Working separately, they are able to bring Korlee down, but cannot help but feel as though they have failed the Hill._

----------


## Zaresh

An arc is at least 5 or 7 issues. Which makes me wonder, if he isn't following with the book, and the book is going to be ongoing further... Will Priest be writing anything in DC by then?

But honestly, I think that this new arc is just the first one of a series for the new team. Or a long arc.

----------


## TheCape

> An arc is at least 5 or 7 issues. Which makes me wonder, if he isn't following with the book, and the book is going to be ongoing further... Will Priest be writing anything in DC by then?
> 
> But honestly, I think that this new arc is just the first one of a series for the new team. Or a long arc.


Honestly, it wouldn't surprised me if this is the last arc of the serires.

----------


## Zaresh

> Honestly, it wouldn't surprised me if this is the last arc of the serires.


It doesn't make sense, changing the name of the book for a handful of issues. Or changing the mood and genre of the book. I don't think that it's going to be cancelled before at least 12 more issues after seeing this solicit.

Edit: what if, what if, what if that one-shot story in Gotham Nights was actually a tease of this new direction? It does share some themes/elements with this arc.

----------


## Sergard

Someone on Reddit has commented the following on the _DC cancels Teen Titans, Young Justice, Suicide Squad, Hawkman, and more_ thread:




> *Scott Snyder said last month on the Word Balloon podcast that we would be seeing a line wide relaunch in January* so i'm assuming that's why a bunch of things will be ending in November, so unless a creator comes out and says it has anything to do with the layoffs i don't see any cause for alarm.


So I guess that this will be a very short arc.

----------


## Zaresh

> Someone on Reddit has commented the following on the _DC cancels Teen Titans, Young Justice, Suicide Squad, Hawkman, and more_ thread:
> 
> o I guess that this will be a very short arc.


Mmmm... Still doesn't make sense to me that they are going to change the name for Red Hood alone just for a short story arc. Maybe we don't get an actual relaunch, but a soft-relaunch, stealth relaunch... earlier than the actual relaunch?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Interesting he's just in for one arc, that might explain the lack of news about it. 

I also doubt this will be the final arc, another possibility is that this was/is just mean to be padding for a line wide relaunch (the fabled 5G).

----------


## TheCape

> It doesn't make sense, changing the name of the book for a handful of issues. Or changing the mood and genre of the book. I don't think that it's going to be cancelled before at least 12 more issues after seeing this solicit.
> 
> Edit: what if, what if, what if that one-shot story in Gotham Nights was actually a tease of this new direction? It does share some themes/elements with this arc.


Well who knows, maybe this last arc would last 12 issues  :Wink: 

Edit:Oh so it doesn't, oh well.

----------


## Arsenal

Could be a bridge of sort that’ll set up the relaunch (if there is one/Jason is a part of it) after the end of Lobdell’s run.

----------


## Sergard

> Could be a bridge of sort that’ll set up the relaunch (*if there is one/Jason is a part of it*) after the end of Lobdell’s run.


If a new Red Hood comic is part of the next relaunch then it won't be affected by the recent layoffs.

This is from an interview with Jim Lee:




> *Do the layoffs or reorganization mean that planned comics are still happening? Are the comics that would have been announced at FanDome still happening?*
> 
> There is no pencils down notice. Everyone has been notified to keep working on all the projects that we’ve already greenlit and started. To that extent, there is no change.



source: Hollywoodreporter

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Thinking more, I beleive that if this relaunch is happening, Jason will still be leading a book. Because otherwise, why bother making a small arc to bridge things between Lobdell and whatever comes later? They could've simply cancel the book as they did with all the others.

----------


## Sergard

We also still don't know what's going on with Vincenzo Viska Federici's "test pages".




> Does this mean something?
> 
> Vincenzo Viska Federici
> 
> _Doing test pages between issues! ESSENCE! @DCComics #dccomics #essence #redhood #outlaws #comics #drawing #inks_








> [...]
> 
> On a different topic: Another "test page" by Vincenzo Viska Federici:
> 
> _ARTEMIS!
> Continuing test pages.
> #drawing #comics #inks @DCComics
>  #redhood_

----------


## Zaresh

_Red Hood: when the mystery and the detective work is now done beyond the fourth wall._

----------


## Restingvoice

So it's like Nightwing #30 to Grayson #1, except that one's just one issue and this one's two if the relaunch is in January. 

I think they don't really care about Red Hood changing the name because they've been doing that for a while now, from Red Hood and The Outlaws to Red Hood Outlaw and now just Red Hood, but officially, publication-wise this is still counted under Red Hood and The Outlaws Rebirth series

The only number and titling that's gonna change is the Trade
There's the Rebirth Outlaws trades, Rebirth Outlaw trades, and if this arc is only two issues, it will either be included in the last Rebirth Outlaw trade or the future Red Hood solo trade volume 1.

----------


## Arsenal

Could also end up in some “Joker War: Aftermath” trade if it really is only 2-3 issues long too.

----------


## OBrianTallent

Glad the book is continuing,  but just not thrilled with Tony Akins.

----------


## Zaresh

> So it's like Nightwing #30 to Grayson #1, except that one's just one issue and this one's two if the relaunch is in January. 
> 
> I think they don't really care about Red Hood changing the name because they've been doing that for a while now, from Red Hood and The Outlaws to Red Hood Outlaw and now just Red Hood, but officially, publication-wise this is still counted under Red Hood and The Outlaws Rebirth series
> 
> The only number and titling that's gonna change is the Trade
> There's the Rebirth Outlaws trades, Rebirth Outlaw trades, and if this arc is only two issues, it will either be included in the last Rebirth Outlaw trade or the future Red Hood solo trade volume 1.


The fact that it's tittled Red Hood and only lasts a few issues is why I think this is already our early relaunch. I seriously, seriously doubt that they would change the name in the solicits for much less than a trade long arc. It just is a bad idea business wise, imho.

----------


## Jman27

So Jason is back to being a solo hero? The reunion went by pretty quick then

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Shawn arc is just two issues long.




> Shawn is currently writing a two part “Red Hood” story for DC Comics. The story revisits the Harlem inspired neighborhood of “The Hill”, co-created by writer Christopher Priest and Shawn, and introduces new characters to the Batman/Gotham Universe.


https://shawnmartinbrough.com/bio/

----------


## Badou

Really surprised it took them this long to just go with the Red Hood title for his book. It should have been changed to that a long time ago I think.

----------


## skyvolt2000

> Shawn arc is just two issues long.
> 
> 
> https://shawnmartinbrough.com/bio/


So will be everything that got CUT from that originally a 5 part series-The Hill cut down to a 1 shot be included?

----------


## Sergard

> _Red Hood: when the mystery and the detective work is now done beyond the fourth wall._


It's mind-boggling that there's such a big lack of information regarding the next relaunch that is apparently supposed to happen at the beginning of next year. We have zero information about the titles that will be part of the relaunch and we don't know a single writer or artist. In the meanwhile, 5G was rumored way before it was ever a thing and in the end didn't even happen. It's suspiciously quiet. Why is nobody talking?




> So it's like Nightwing #30 to Grayson #1, except that one's just one issue and this one's two if the relaunch is in January. 
> 
> I think they don't really care about Red Hood changing the name because they've been doing that for a while now, from *Red Hood and The Outlaws* to *Red Hood Outlaw* and now just *Red Hood*, but officially, publication-wise this is still counted under Red Hood and The Outlaws Rebirth series
> 
> The only number and titling that's gonna change is the Trade
> There's the Rebirth Outlaws trades, Rebirth Outlaw trades, and if this arc is only two issues, it will either be included in the last Rebirth Outlaw trade or the future Red Hood solo trade volume 1.


This title is getting shorter and shorter - just like the sleeves of Jason's jacket.  :Wink: 






> So will be everything that got CUT from that originally a 5 part series-The Hill cut down to a 1 shot be included?


Do we know what was cut? Just looking at the cover of #51, I could imagine that the new female character has some kind of connection to the Batman: The Hill story. But Killer Croc(?) and the masked character? Doubtful.

----------


## Restingvoice

> It's mind-boggling that there's such a big lack of information regarding the next relaunch that is apparently supposed to happen at the beginning of next year. We have zero information about the titles that will be part of the relaunch and we don't know a single writer or artist. In the meanwhile, 5G was rumored way before it was ever a thing and in the end didn't even happen. It's suspiciously quiet. Why is nobody talking?
> 
> This title is getting shorter and shorter - just like the sleeves of Jason's jacket. 
> 
> Do we know what was cut? Just looking at the cover of #51, I could imagine that the new female character has some kind of connection to the Batman: The Hill story. But Killer Croc(?) and the masked character? Doubtful.


and I always support any decision that's giving Jason less and less clothing ;P

Killer Croc's black. I don't remember where he's from but I'm not surprised if they want to tie him with neglected black neighborhood since he's already an anti-villain protector of the neglected.

----------


## Aahz

> Killer Croc's black. I don't remember where he's from but I'm not surprised if they want to tie him with neglected black neighborhood since he's already an anti-villain protector of the neglected.


According from DC wikia he is from Tampa, Florida, but I don't think that he cares much about skin color, I mean a lot of the propel that mistreated him as a child (including his family) were probably black.

----------


## Sergard

> Is that...
> Oh
> Oh
> That's Jason. The costume is closer to Dick's BTAS costume, which is based on Tim's comic costume. 
> I have to think first because I don't remember if Tim went straight to his black and red costume or not ^^


I think it's Jason too because of the red batarangs. His BTAS action figure has one of those too (and the current story arc revolves around his Robin time).
It's just that Robin's pose on the BTAC #6 cover (crouched body, one hand in the foreground touching the surface underneath, the other hand stretching back, cape blowing in the wind and a smirk on the face) reminds me of something similar that I've seen in the past (not necessarily connected to Jason). I've probably reached a point where I've already seen too much Batman (+ family) stuff that everything looks similar to something else.

I'm still not 100% certain but I suspect that my brain somehow connected the cover with the following three artworks (please don't ask me how my brain works. I don't know it either.).

From Red Hood and the Outlaws #0 (New52 run):




Batman Incorporated #4:



And maybe Batman's pose subconsciously reminded me of Nightwing's pose on the Batman #416 cover.

----------


## Restingvoice

> According from DC wikia he is from Tampa, Florida, but I don't think that he cares much about skin color, I mean a lot of the propel that mistreated him as a child (including his family) were probably black.


Wouldn't be the first time they readjust a character backstory to fit a story concept

----------


## gwhh

Who she kissing in this comic?

http://tessatechaitea.blogspot.com/2...ergirl-35.html

----------


## Jackalope89

> Who she kissing in this comic?
> 
> http://tessatechaitea.blogspot.com/2...ergirl-35.html


A guy that didn't last long as a character. Considering the Rebirth series of Supergirl he was never brought up and what not.

----------


## Sergard

Fan-artists celebrate Jason's birthday on Twitter.

Fade



Sdimo



teriyaki_burino

----------


## Sergard

Unmoving

_"Best of Jason Todd.

What youve been through has made who you are today.

Happy birthday my boy!"_

----------


## Sergard

yottsu





wastedc__

----------


## Jackalope89



----------


## Sergard

Nix

_"When it's your birthday but you still have to work...HBD boy"_



risari



ichijiku

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I love those fanarts showing all of Jason's costumes over the years.

----------


## Zaresh

> I love those fanarts showing all of Jason's costumes over the years.


Me too. They also draw costumes from other media, which it's even nicer.

-----------

Btw, I've been updating the list of fics with a few new entries with some of my older bookmarks from AO3. If you want to know which ones are new, just short the list by "Recording date". I've also added a few new tags in the Themes and Ships/Triggers columns, as well as rearranged the tags in most columns. I'm not sure when, but I'll update the info post in the future with a brief view of the tagging system that I've worked out.

----------


## Sergard

This design looks awesome.


Jonathan Baschenis



I don't know what I like more. The above design or this one from a few weeks ago. 




> Marton Adam Marton
> 
> _"Commission work.
> Character designs of DC characters such as the Red Hood and the Green Arrow based on their Injustice versions with a little samurai twist."_
> 
> (see linked ********** page for the Green Arrow design)
> 
> [IMG]https://cdna.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/026/038/140/large/marton-adam-marton-mam-samurai-red-hood-concept-02.jpg?1587687385[/IMG]
> [...]

----------


## Restingvoice

> Fan-artists celebrate Jason's birthday on Twitter.
> 
> Fade
> 
> 
> 
> Sdimo
> 
> 
> ...


I love fan artists have make it a habit to draw Batman as Totoro

----------


## Sergard

Alice_ranko




yuki




acclast

----------


## Sergard

pseudae




croak828




pictoneko

_"HAPPY BIRTHDAY JASON"_

----------


## Sergard

Nakakitou





matsukoyama





Linkin Echelon

----------


## Sergard

mystea




Nic



Yidan

----------


## Sergard

Shi69

_"Jason Todd is my bias in DC comics
The first character get me become fan of DC 
"HAPPY BIRTHDAY JASON TODD"
16/8/2020."_

----------


## Sergard

huyandere



Noato




sam

----------


## Sergard

ashlee

_"happy birthday jason todd"_




noctemq




mtam02

----------


## Sergard

Mr.Faith



MÜGa




Dam_ATM

----------


## Sergard

iyama




iyama




ash

----------


## Jackalope89



----------


## Sergard

syusyusyu1515






Fosca

----------


## Sergard

Sen




ROXX




troishit

----------


## Sergard

Louna Ashasou




yopi




whippy

_"Happy birthday, Jay!"_

----------


## AmiMizuno

I have heard the next writer wants the Batfam to be close. What do you guys think about that? Should Jason be closer to Bruce and the others? I don't mind but Dick and Jason aren't that close. So the two kinda of would have to hang out more.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I have heard the next writer wants the Batfam to be close. What do you guys think about that? Should Jason be closer to Bruce and the others? I don't mind but Dick and Jason aren't that close. So the two kinda of would have to hang out more.


Honestly, I would need for Bruce to make some big apologies to Jason and the others before even considering of having the Bats be close. And outside of Bruce, I wouldn't say there's bad blood, aside from Damian, but there is a level of hostility between Jason and most of the others (barring Kate, Cass, Steph, and Duke).

----------


## Konja7

> Honestly, I would need for Bruce to make some big apologies to Jason and the others before even considering of having the Bats be close. And outside of Bruce, I wouldn't say there's bad blood, aside from Damian, but there is a level of hostility between Jason and most of the others (barring Kate, Cass, Steph, and Duke).


I don't think apologies to Jason will be happening. Many writers don't even know (or care) what happens in Red Hood comic. 

Also, most writers seem to just want to ignore or retcon what Lobdell has written.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I don't think apologies to Jason will be happening. Many writers don't even know (or care) what happens in Red Hood comic. 
> 
> Also, most writers seem to just want to ignore or retcon what Lobdell has written.


Martinbrough is continuing where Lobdell left off, so he cares, and he's the one who matters. Besides, DC's continuity is such a mess right now that is pointless trying to reconcile all the books in a coherent whole.

----------


## Restingvoice

> I have heard the next writer wants the Batfam to be close. What do you guys think about that? Should Jason be closer to Bruce and the others? I don't mind but Dick and Jason aren't that close. So the two kinds of would have to hang out more.


I want it because I've had enough Batfam conflict for a lifetime. Like I don't even care if anyone apologizes or not, because I consider most of the conflict to have a ridiculous start anyway.
Batman beating Red Hood that much and not listening to him is ridiculous
Damian making a prison to torture criminals is ridiculous
Bruce not inviting Jason and Julia to Alfred's funeral is ridiculous
Bruce and Dick not telling others to go undercover is ridiculous
Stephanie breaking the Bat-Signal because she thinks Batfam causing more damage than criminals is ridiculous
Bruce being too busy with his own grief instead of making sure Damian understands that Alfred's death is not his fault is ridiculous.
Dick lost his minds 3 times in a row and fighting the Batfam is ridiculous
I can go back further

----------


## Konja7

> Martinbrough is continuing where Lobdell left off, so he cares, and he's the one who matters. Besides, DC's continuity is such a mess right now that is pointless trying to reconcile all the books in a coherent whole.


If I'm not mistaken, Martinbrough is just writing a two-issues arc. We also don't know how much he cares about Lobdell story (new writers could totally ignore what previous writers wrote). 

Also, the point to discuss was about the Bat-family becoming close. That will likely happen in Batman book.

----------


## Zaresh

Going by the solicit, I think we're safe that he will follow on Lobdell's story, or at least, he is going to take it all into consideration.

It would be an awful misstep in this particular fandom if the next writers disregard everything Lobdell has done for the last 10 years, imho. A very not-well advised move, I think. I think they can retcon stuff, sure; but not everything or the big stuff.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Honestly, I would need for Bruce to make some big apologies to Jason and the others before even considering of having the Bats be close. And outside of Bruce, I wouldn't say there's bad blood, aside from Damian, but there is a level of hostility between Jason and most of the others (barring Kate, Cass, Steph, and Duke).


There's bad blood between Jason and Tim? On new52 they're so close, and Jason also already apologized to Tim for his attempt to murder Tim.

----------


## Light of Justice

> huyandere


Ouch, my heart hurts seeing adult Jason's little smile..
Jason : Yeah, magic in form of Lazarus Pit and All-Caste

----------


## Jackalope89

> There's bad blood between Jason and Tim? On new52 they're so close, and Jason also already apologized to Tim for his attempt to murder Tim.


Considering the only time in Rebirth they've shown to be actually interacting is in Alfred RIP... Hard to say if there's anything positive there.

----------


## Zaresh

> Considering the only time in Rebirth they've shown to be actually interacting is in Alfred RIP... Hard to say if there's anything positive there.


They interacted in the trial of Batwoman too. It was kind of neutral.

----------


## Sergard

Linda Thai (@lindatart_)

_"Happy belated to my fav batboy uwu"_




Quic

_"Dick asked Alfred if he could make some cookies for Jason, but he didn't tell him why"_




chrysa

_"A birthday boy"_

----------


## Sergard

gothamtwinks

_"HBD king #HappyBirthdayJasonTodd"_ (Remark: #HappyBirthdayJasonTodd is generally a good way to find Jason Todd birthday fanart on Twitter)




komru

----------


## Sergard

BX




Wren

----------


## Sergard

Ezzy

_"#HappyBirthdayJasonTodd #jasontodd
Happy birthday for both of them"_




Ylang



symeona.kanellou

_"Happy Bday to the bby"_

----------


## AmiMizuno

> I want it because I've had enough Batfam conflict for a lifetime. Like I don't even care if anyone apologizes or not, because I consider most of the conflict to have a ridiculous start anyway.
> Batman beating Red Hood that much and not listening to him is ridiculous
> Damian making a prison to torture criminals is ridiculous
> Bruce not inviting Jason and Julia to Alfred's funeral is ridiculous
> Bruce and Dick not telling others to go undercover is ridiculous
> Stephanie breaking the Bat-Signal because she thinks Batfam causing more damage than criminals is ridiculous
> Bruce being too busy with his own grief instead of making sure Damian understands that Alfred's death is not his fault is ridiculous.
> Dick lost his minds 3 times in a row and fighting the Batfam is ridiculous
> I can go back further


Now with the others like Batgirl or Dick he can be hostile but is okay with. But with the others who would, you reconcile them? Because I would be annoyed if they just go forget everything that happened. I think one on one would be a good idea

----------


## Restingvoice

> Now with the others like Batgirl or Dick he can be hostile but is okay with. But with the others who would, you reconcile them? Because I would be annoyed if they just go forget everything that happened. I think one on one would be a good idea


Well, I don't give a frick because I usually stop reading when the stuff I think is stupid happens and wait until they're fixed, so if there's a relaunch, then I want it already fixed.

----------


## RedBird

I love seeing all this fanart for Jasons Birthday  :Big Grin: 

If there's one thing that I really love about the fandom for this character, it's that it has remained really really passionate throughout the years.

----------


## Sergard

Dexter Soy



And here's a little rumor about Artemis' future (source: that_artemis_fan on Instagram):




> [...]I have been told that Artemis will feature in her own separate series as well after she leaves Jason and the Outlaws, but I don't have any further news confirmation on that yet. I will update for sure as and when I find out more info! I am not sure what DC plans for Bizarro sadly.[...]

----------


## Jackalope89

Still sad on the break-up of these Outlaws. The Dark Trinity really works quite well. Lobdell hit on some gold with it.

----------


## Zaresh

I'm sure they'll cross paths in the future again. Seems like the fandom really liked their team up as much if not more than the first trinity did, and that tends to mean that writers make them team up now and them.

----------


## Sergard

Paolo Pantalena

_"Red Ronin

Going throught the last pages on my Red hood run alongside @arifprianto_arf are you guys excited for the last outlaws adventure?

#redronin #redhood #redhoodandtheoutlaws #dccomics"_

----------


## Jackalope89

Red, white, and black? Interesting combination. I don't hate it.

----------


## Zaresh

> Paolo Pantalena
> 
> _"Red Ronin
> 
> Going throught the last pages on my Red hood run alongside @arifprianto_arf are you guys excited for the last outlaws adventure?
> 
> #redronin #redhood #redhoodandtheoutlaws #dccomics"_


We left the Mortal Kombat frontier and are now entering the Assassins Creed territory. Not that I'm complaining, and then, it's actually the name and colour scheme Soy used (and Arkham Knight too, in the DLC). But it's weird, I think. Very much fitting, but weird.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Paolo Pantalena
> 
> _"Red Ronin
> 
> Going throught the last pages on my Red hood run alongside @arifprianto_arf are you guys excited for the last outlaws adventure?
> 
> #redronin #redhood #redhoodandtheoutlaws #dccomics"_


So much better than the Outlaw costume. Even though is just a different color scheme and the helmet. Going to miss Pantalena's work.

EDIT: There's also a rumor making the rounds that Jason will be a Playstation Exclusive DLC for the upcoming Suicide Squad game.

----------


## Jackalope89

> So much better than the Outlaw costume. Even though is just a different color scheme and the helmet. Going to miss Pantalena's work.
> 
> EDIT: There's also a rumor making the rounds that Jason will be a Playstation Exclusive DLC for the upcoming Suicide Squad game.


Aw, only Playstation? That sucks. I'm on Xbox.

----------


## cc008

> Aw, only Playstation? That sucks. I'm on Xbox.


Sony seems to be hitting on that a lot lately what with Spider-Man in the Avengers game too.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Jurgens is going with the cordial approach for Jason and Tim on Nightwing

----------


## Drako

What happened to his mask?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Good question, that is his only appearance in the issue.

----------


## Zaresh

> What happened to his mask?





> Good question, that is his only appearance in the issue.


Maybe he broke it? It happened a lot with the previous mask.

Or it's some clue on something else happening for the future. Like loosing his mask. Or a reason for him being affected by some gas in the next issue.

----------


## Restingvoice

Did they ever name which middle school Jason went?

----------


## Sergard

Here are two belated birthday fanarts.


bententodd



VinceMon







There's also - for quite some time by now - the rumor going around that Red Hood will appear on Titans season 3. At least I'm pretty sure that it's still considered a rumor. Maybe there'll be some official announcment during the DC FanDome event. Until then, here's some cool fanart of Curran Walters as Red Hood. I love the style.

Mizuri

_"Heres a painting I did of @CurranWalters1 as Red Hood!! Cant wait to see what @DCTitans have prepped for us at #DCFandome. Suit designed by Datrinti. Enjoy!"_

----------


## Aahz

> Did they ever name which middle school Jason went?


Pre Crisis he visited North Gotham Junior High (Batman #397).


Post Crisis afaik not in his initial run, but shortly before Flashpoint (Batman and Robin #25) it was said that he went to the Tomas Wayne Middle School.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Pre Crisis he visited North Gotham Junior High (Batman #397).
> 
> 
> Post Crisis afaik not in his initial run, but shortly before Flashpoint (Batman and Robin #25) it was said that he went to the Tomas Wayne Middle School.


Thank you. Graduated or died?

----------


## Aahz

> Thank you. Graduated or died?


Hard to say, all that is said in Batman and Robin #25, is that he went there only for 3 month.

In his original run, the is really only one story (Batman Annual #12) that shows him in school, and it is hard to say how much time passed between that and DitF, or how old Jason was in DitF (there is in general not much information about Jason's age in the post crisis stories).

----------


## Restingvoice

> Hard to say, all that is said in Batman and Robin #25, is that he went there only for 3 month.
> 
> In his original run, the is really only one story (Batman Annual #12) that shows him in school, and it is hard to say how much time passed between that and DitF, or how old Jason was in DitF (there is in general not much information about Jason's age in the post-crisis stories).


I'm gonna put it down as died. First meeting at 12, went to Ma Gunn's (for a bit longer in Rebirth), getting legally adopted, train as Robin for 6 months, went to school for 3 months, even if we stretch it out he will reach 14 at most.

----------


## Sergard

> We left the Mortal Kombat frontier and are now entering the *Assassins Creed territory*. Not that I'm complaining, and then, it's actually the name and colour scheme Soy used (and Arkham Knight too, in the DLC). But it's weird, I think. Very much fitting, but weird.


"Assassin's Creed territory" reminds me of Pete Woods' Assassin's Creed inspired but in the end dismissed look for Red Hood. I still like the long coat with the hood though.





Here's a cool Red Ronin fanart by spaceboykenny.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Here's a cool Red Ronin fanart by spaceboykenny.


F*** that's hot

----------


## Sergard

People on Twitter have pointed out that Jason's Robin costume in _Batman: The Adventures Continue_ resembles his very first pre-crisis costume before he became Robin.
I can see the similarities.

----------


## Konja7

> People on Twitter have pointed out that Jason's Robin costume in _Batman: The Adventures Continue_ resembles his very first pre-crisis costume before he became Robin.
> I can see the similarities.


I think the similarities is just because the first pre-crisis Jason costume is similar to Robin's suit.

Jason's Robin costume in Batman: The Adventures Continue is similar to Dick's Robin costume in Batman TAS.

----------


## Restingvoice

> People on Twitter have pointed out that Jason's Robin costume in _Batman: The Adventures Continue_ resembles his very first pre-crisis costume before he became Robin.
> I can see the similarities.


The belt and the boots espeically yes.

----------


## Zaresh

Just realised that the costume is orange, not red. Like the actual robin birds.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Just realised that the costume is orange, not red. Like the actual robin birds.


Could simply be the lighting effects for it.

----------


## Zaresh

> Could simply be the lighting effects for it.


Mmm... Could be. But the mask is red alright.
Could be a colouring mistake too, I guess O.o.

----------


## Sergard

Red Hood Outlaw #48 - finalized cover

----------


## Jackalope89

The title is kind of redundant when you think about it...

----------


## Restingvoice

He couldn't been attacked by some random, I mean who dress like that in the Batfam

----------


## Sergard

> The title is kind of redundant when you think about it...


Do you mean "Collateral Damage" or "Betrayed by the family!"?

----------


## Jackalope89

> Do you mean "Collateral Damage" or "Betrayed by the family!"?


The latter mostly.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Lobdell actually is working with what he was given form editorial and from what I've heard, in a strange reversal, this tie in is a standalone story that has zero relation or coherency with the cliffanger of RHO #47.

----------


## Zaresh

> Lobdell actually is working with what he was given form editorial and from what I've heard, in a strange reversal, this tie in is a standalone story that has zero relation or coherency with the cliffanger of RHO #47.


Well, looks like the house publisher is a mess. Not surprised by this bit of info, at all.

----------


## Sergard

> Lobdell actually is working with what he was given form editorial and from what I've heard, in a strange reversal, this tie in is a standalone story that has zero relation or coherency with the cliffanger of RHO #47.


I consider it a good thing that this tie-in isn't connected to the main story at all. This way, one can just ignore everything that happens in #48 and continue with #49 like #48 never happened.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I consider it a good thing that this tie-in isn't connected to the main story at all. This way, one can just ignore everything that happens in #48 and continue with #49 like #48 never happened.


On the other hand, it means Lobdell lost an issue he could've used to give his run a better ending.

----------


## Sergard

From the Batman #99 preview:

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

See, this is why I find pointless arguing about Jason's standing with the batfamily, since that always be what editorial needs to be, regardless of the actual narrative within their respective books or plans from the writer. Even the events from RHATO 25 were mandated rather than something Lobdell wanted.

----------


## Sergard

> [...]
> 
> There's also - for quite some time by now - the rumor going around that Red Hood will appear on Titans season 3. At least I'm pretty sure that it's still considered a rumor. Maybe there'll be some official announcment during the DC FanDome event. Until then, here's some cool fanart of Curran Walters as Red Hood. I love the style.
> 
> Mizuri
> 
> _"Heres a painting I did of @CurranWalters1 as Red Hood!! Cant wait to see what @DCTitans have prepped for us at #DCFandome. Suit designed by Datrinti. Enjoy!"_


Mizuri

_"Here is a masked version of my drawing of @CurranWalters1
 as #RedHood. Enjoy!"_









> So much better than the Outlaw costume. Even though is just a different color scheme and the helmet. Going to miss Pantalena's work.
> 
> EDIT: There's also a rumor making the rounds that Jason will be a Playstation Exclusive DLC for the upcoming Suicide Squad game.


I've found a list of "leaks" which also includes the rumor that Jason will be a PlayStation Exclusive DLC. Have you seen some of these "leaks" elsewhere too? Some of them sound ridiculous.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Mizuri
> 
> _"Here is a masked version of my drawing of @CurranWalters1
>  as #RedHood. Enjoy!"_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, those are the same rumors I saw.


Anyways, in light of the news of Ben Affleck donning the cowl one last time



https://www.instagram.com/p/BvDY4tlHTJX/

----------


## Sergard

Travis Mercer (probably "just" a fun artwork and not part of the comic)

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Or a commission.

----------


## Zaresh

Whatever it is, I'm looking forward to see the finished piece. I like the poses there. I wonder if Biz is somewhere in the compo or it's just Jason and Artemis.

----------


## Sergard

The Batman: The Adventures Continue Chapter #11 cover is the same as the one for issue #6 (not surprising).







Solicitation for Batman: The Adventures Continue Chapter #12 (no cover yet)




> Years ago, Jason Todd's rampage against the criminal underbelly of Gotham led him face-to-face with The Joker and through that conflict, Batman was never the same again!

----------


## Zaresh

So, Otto Schmidt didn't draw Ms Harper and Ms Todd, but he did deliver a cutie (well, I find her cute) female Jason, or, well, Jessy. Man, I love this guy. He's so responsive to fans. I love when artists reply with sketches.

Jason a cutie pie.jpg

----------


## Sergard

> So, Otto Schmidt didn't draw Ms Harper and Ms Todd, but he did deliver a cutie (well, I find her cute) female Jason, or, well, Jessy. Man, I love this guy. He's so responsive to fans. I love when artists reply with sketches.
> 
> Jason a cutie pie.jpg


Beautiful. I love Earth-11, even though it's just gender-swap. 

Here's a female Jason fanart by symeona.kanellou:

----------


## Rise

Jason is playable in the game and not as DLC? Freaking finally!! Dark is definitely going to be happy with the costume choice.

----------


## Sergard

> Jason is playable in the game and not as DLC? Freaking finally!! *Dark is definitely going to be happy with the costume choice.*


I literally thought the same thing when I saw the costume xD

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Jason is playable in the game and not as DLC? Freaking finally!! Dark is definitely going to be happy with the costume choice.


Indeed I am! I wasn't expecting for them to dust off the RH/Arsenal suit!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhVf...ture=emb_title

I hope they post a clear look of the Jim Lee promo art soon, it looked so cool.

----------


## sifighter

> Indeed I am! I wasn't expecting for them to dust off the RH/Arsenal suit!
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhVf...ture=emb_title
> 
> I hope they post a clear look of the Jim Lee promo art soon, it looked so cool.


Here you go, found it on Twitter

EgCvZefUYAU9lJn.jpg

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Here you go, found it on Twitter
> 
> Attachment 100010


Thanks!

It looks so cool.

----------


## Jman27

> From the Batman #99 preview:


so tim really is a kid again damn comic retcons. So Harley officially apart of the Batman family now right?

----------


## Sergard

Jason has a white streak in Gotham Knights (and a scar).









> so tim really is a kid again damn comic retcons. So Harley officially apart of the Batman family now right?


I don't think she's officially part of the family. She's simply an important ally in this story - but if you want to see her as part of the family, feel free to do so.
Catwoman is part of the family - and Harley is one of her best friends. Close enough. 

And yeah, Tim and the chewing gum surprised me too. Is this some kind of reference I'm not getting?

----------


## Konja7

> so tim really is a kid again damn comic retcons. So Harley officially apart of the Batman family now right?


Tim may use a Robin suit, but it seems he will still use Drake name. This was implied to be the case in Nightwing #73.

----------


## Jman27

> I don't think she's officially part of the family. She's simply an important ally in this story - but if you want to see her as part of the family, feel free to do so.
> Catwoman is part of the family - and Harley is one of her best friends. Close enough. 
> 
> And yeah, *Tim* and the chewing gum surprised me too. Is this some kind of reference I'm not getting?


I think its Bendis Young Justice run where Tim is now called Drake. Yeah I think I will just considered Harley to be a member of the family now considering she isnt a villian anymore based on what I see from comics.

----------


## Zaresh

I have the feeling that design-wise, this game was worked before Rebirth, maybe within the first year of Rebirth. It's just, the costumes and the whole concept, kind of reminds me of how the batfam looked from the distance in those first months between all the books.

Ah, some of the comments in TY are hilarious. Seriously, some people, sometimes... xd.

----------


## Sergard

> Here you go, found it on Twitter
> 
> EgCvZefUYAU9lJn.jpg


Jim Lee has posted the uncolored version.

----------


## cc008

> Thanks!
> 
> It looks so cool.


This is SO great.

----------


## Zaresh

Those guns, are laser guns. They are, right?
How cool can it get? Could it get cooler?

----------


## TheCape

> Those guns, are laser guns. They are, right?
> How cool can it get? Could it get cooler?


They shoot energy T-Rexs  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Zaresh

> They shoot energy T-Rexs


Damn~ I didn't see that one coming.

I was watching the gameplay video and looks like Alfred is running coms again. Good. Also, this game is going to be so fun to explore. I had a lot of fun exploring the Lego-Villains game, this is going to be even better. Looks more explorable than Arkham Knight. And it has co-op, so I guess I'll play with my brother.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Jason's logo from the game.




And link to the official discord in case you guys want to keep Jason repped

https://twitter.com/GothamKnights/st...38751232634885

----------


## Frontier

Stephen Oyoung (Mr. Negative from Spider-Man PS4) is playing Jason.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Lots of Jason fans

----------


## Frontier

> Lots of Jason fans


Something about Robin and Batgirl being close together that feels appropriate.

----------


## Zaresh

> Lots of Jason fans


I voted already. Can't believe Jason is so high. Or maybe I can. He's definitely popular between gamers. And how can he not? Laser guns. I mean, cooooome ooon.

I saw you posting in the rh channel. Would have said Hi, but I couldn't write there yet.

----------


## Sergard

(source)

Are the faces of the characters based on actual people? Tim reminds me of someone.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Rubber bullets!

----------


## Drako

Jason will become Red Hood in Titans, confirmed.

----------


## Zaresh

> Jason will become Red Hood in Titans, confirmed.


And going by how (most but not all) the Titans behaved in season 2, I know already that he will be more sympathetic than them xD even if he goes full murderous. It's going to be like the first Avenger's movie were everyone else made Loki look not so bad in the end.

You will see xD.

----------


## cc008

Good day for Jason. And really the family as a whole lol. Excited for everything that I've seen today

----------


## Sergard

> Jason will become Red Hood in Titans, confirmed.


You were faster than me.  :Wink: 

Some further information:
Curran Walters will still be the actor of Jason Todd/Red Hood.
Apparently, the transition to Red Hood stems from the fallout with the Titans at the end of season 2.
Barbara Gordon and Jonathan Crane/Scarecrow will also appear on season 3.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> You were faster than me. 
> 
> Some further information:
> *Curran Walters will still be the actor of Jason Todd/Red Hood.*
> Apparently, the transition to Red Hood stems from the fallout with the Titans at the end of season 2.
> Barbara Gordon and Jonathan Crane/Scarecrow will also appear on season 3.


Aaand I'm out. 

I don't like him much as Robin, I like him even less for Red Hood.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Aaand I'm out. 
> 
> I don't like him much as Robin, I like him even less for Red Hood.


To each their own.

But it will be interesting to see how they do Red Hood. And for once, it really is on everyone else for being, well, douchebags to him. Except Kori, who really wasn't around during that whole thing.

----------


## Badou

Not surprised they are rushing to Red Hood given the lack of ideas they have with the show. I still feel like this should have just been a Nightwing show given all the Batman influences they keep adding in. Feels like it would have made a lot more sense.

----------


## Sergard

I wasn't aware that artists exist who can draw at the speed of light.
Here are two fanarts of Gotham Knights' Jason Todd.

yottsu




Quic

----------


## Wingin' It

> Aaand I'm out. 
> 
> I don't like him much as Robin, I like him even less for Red Hood.


I like Curran for Jason as Robin, but I agree he doesn't fit as Red Hood. He's not beefy enough, as shallow as that sounds. 

It does seem like they're kind of rushing into it. A falling out with the Titans as the reason why he heel-face-turns rather than Bruce refusing to avenge his death seems less interesting. 

Also, if this is a Titans show, it would be nice if they gave some of the other non-Bat characters the spotlight.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Jason will become Red Hood in Titans, confirmed.


Standing 5’4 I can’t wait for the memes

----------


## Zaresh

> Standing 5’4 I can’t wait for the memes


To be fair, you can be threatening while short. Just, not with your built. It all depends on what they want to do with the character.

----------


## Arsenal

I’m kinda surprised they are bringing Red Hood in so soon, I figured they’d wait at-least a season or 2 before doing that.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Unique Character Abilities and Customization – Each hero has unique abilities, gear, weapons and a customizable suit. Batgirl wields her melee tonfa; Nightwing uses his signature dual Escrima Sticks; *Red Hood has trained to reach peak human strength*; and Robin is expertly skilled with his collapsible quarter staff.


https://www.gematsu.com/2020/08/goth...box-one-and-pc

So Jason is the brute of the squad?

----------


## TheCape

He is the Wolverine of the group most likely.

----------


## Sergard

The rumor about a Red Hood DLC for the Suicide Squad game wasn't confirmed (and feels unrealistic).
The game takes place in the same universe as the Arkham games though. (So maybe we'll get some Easter Eggs in the Suicide Squad game?)
The playable characters, by the way, are Harley Quinn, Deadshot, Captain Boomerang and King Shark who have to kill the Justice League.

----------


## Zaresh

> https://www.gematsu.com/2020/08/goth...box-one-and-pc
> 
> So Jason is the brute of the squad?


We don't really now yet

So far, Tim seems to be stealth/tech and acrobatics, and Babs seems to be non-stealth with weapons/tech. Dick could be melee and acrobatics with stealth, and Jason non-stealth weapons specialist and tech. I mean, they seem to have different things going for each of them, not just one set of skills depending on the character. It makes sense, if they want to give the game some sense of RPG-like growth of the characters. Honestly, I'm waiting for a gameplay video for Dick and Jason to make a more focused picture of the mechanics behind.

Edit: I've just read the info that Dark posted in the other thread. I guess that yes, Jason is the most physical oriented of them. A pity, honestly. I was hopping for a weapons specialist, something a bit more subtle and fun to play.

----------


## Jackalope89

> We don't really now yet
> 
> So far, Tim seems to be stealth/tech and acrobatics, and Babs seems to be non-stealth with weapons/tech. Dick could be melee and acrobatics with stealth, and Jason non-stealth weapons specialist and tech. I mean, they seem to have different things going for each of them, not just one set of skills depending on the character. It makes sense, if they want to give the game some sense of RPG-like growth of the characters. *Honestly, I'm waiting for a gameplay video for Dick and Jason to make a more focused picture of the mechanics behind.*


That, and I want to see a cutscene or two of the characters interacting. It does look very good, but I still want character interaction.

----------


## numberthirty

> I’m kinda surprised they are bringing Red Hood in so soon, *I figured they’d wait at-least a season or 2 before doing that.*


It did occur to me that they might not be banking on having the season or two to wait. Well, at least that they might not be betting on just having two or three more seasons to do what they would like to.

----------


## ZeroBG82

I'm betting each of the four characters will represent a kind of base class, but that you can branch out towards the other paths with tech or ability upgrades.  My speculation (and it IS PURELY SPECULATION ON MY PART): Batgirl is the balanced 'jack of all trades' (being the Bat representative).  Nightwing is speed and agility.  He might not hit as hard, but he will be more fluid and focused on mobility.  Tim looks to be the stealth and tech character, he'll deal the least damage with his physical attacks but will have all the best toys and sneak attacks.  And Jason is the heavy or tank, all about brute force and direct, in your face combat.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Potential spoilers for Three Jokers are out there, so if you don't want to risk being spoiled, tread carefully.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Potential spoilers for Three Jokers are out there, so if you don't want to risk being spoiled, tread carefully.


Uhh... where's "out there"?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Message boards.

----------


## Aahz

> So Jason is the brute of the squad?


If you look how tall and bulky he is in comparison to the others that seems likely.

----------


## Immortal Hulk

Jason always been my favorite. So, no doubt he's gonna b my main character!

----------


## Rise

I have no problem with Currun. He had done a great job as Jason and was one of the few highlights of the show. 

The problem is the show iself and its writing. I have no interest in season 3, but we will see.

----------


## Robanker

> https://www.gematsu.com/2020/08/goth...box-one-and-pc
> 
> So Jason is the brute of the squad?


He is an absolute unit. I'll say it does play into when artists like making him larger than Dick. Considering he is the most ruthless of all of them when pushed, sometimes even more than Damian (though he certainly talks less), making him the most physically imposing makes a degree of sense. I kind of like that while Damian fronts the most about how dangerous he is, you're always side-eyeing Jason in the corner. If he must be the Bat family's bad boy, making him their brute certainly fits.

----------


## Sergard

> I like Curran for Jason as Robin, but I agree he doesn't fit as Red Hood. He's not beefy enough, as shallow as that sounds. 
> 
> It does seem like they're kind of rushing into it. A falling out with the Titans as the reason why he heel-face-turns rather than Bruce refusing to avenge his death seems less interesting. 
> 
> *Also, if this is a Titans show, it would be nice if they gave some of the other non-Bat characters the spotlight.*


Starfire and Blackfire will play a big role in the next season. I didn't mention it before because this is an already known story-line that started in season 2.
There will be another Titans panel during the DC FanDome event in September. Maybe there will be more information revealed. Conor Leslie, actress of Donna Troy, was part of the panel yesterday - so maybe we'll get the return of Donna Troy in season 3 too.





> Standing 54 I cant wait for the memes


The memes will go nicely with the "villainous" Damian Wayne memes that probably will pop up in the upcoming months.  :Wink: 

-----

A belated birthday fanart by the one and only JJMK:

----------


## Sergard

Look at all those Gotham Knights Jason Todd fanarts!
I'm even more hyped for the game.

yopi



nockuth



uth69

----------


## Sergard

Ladena Aiuke



svnctis



Rubio

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

The leaks for Three Jokers have been proved truthful and from what has been posted, Jason is regressed to his post UtRH characterization.

----------


## Sergard

> The leaks for Three Jokers have been proved truthful and from what has been posted, Jason is regressed to his post UtRH characterization.


What are the leaks?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Just about Jason or the whole first issue?

----------


## Light of Justice

> Just about Jason or the whole first issue?


About Jason, please. I have seen the preview but sadly there's no mention of Jason.

----------


## Sergard

> Just about Jason or the whole first issue?


Mainly about Jason but I don't mind being spoiled.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

*spoilers:*
Jason is angrily tracking down one of the three Jokers stirring some conflict with Barbara and Bruce due to his methods. By the end of the issue they've tracked down and restrained the Joker who presumably killed him. Bruce leaves him and Barbara after getting a call from Gordon that the GCPD has cornered another Joker. Once Bruce is gone Jason pulls his gun and aims to the Joker they captured, Barbara throws a batarang at Jason to disarm him but misses and Jason kills him. The issue then ends with Jason asking Barbara when was the last time she missed
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Sergard

> *spoilers:*
> Jason is angrily tracking down one of the three Jokers stirring some conflict with Barbara and Bruce due to his methods. By the end of the issue they've tracked down and restrained the Joker who presumably killed him. Bruce leaves him and Barbara after getting a call from Gordon that the GCPD has cornered another Joker. Once Bruce is gone Jason pulls his gun and aims to the Joker they captured, Barbara throws a batarang at Jason to disarm him but misses and Jason kills him. The issue then ends with Jason asking Barbara when was the last time she missed
> *end of spoilers*


And that's a bad thing?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Personally I don't like Jason going back to angry, punch first ask questions never mode. And the reveal about the Three Jokers completely wrecks Joker as character

*spoilers:*
In a rip off from Arkham Knight, the Golden Age Joker has been dumping random people on Chemicals Ace to make more Jokers, looking to make "the perfect Joker" and thus, Batman has been fighting random Jokerized people over the years with no one realizing it was different guys every time. Hopefully, Johns will lead with the ramifications of this in the coming issues but this is such a needless retcon that I don't know how he's going to write himself out of it. 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Light of Justice

> *spoilers:*
> Jason is angrily tracking down one of the three Jokers stirring some conflict with Barbara and Bruce due to his methods. By the end of the issue they've tracked down and restrained the Joker who presumably killed him. Bruce leaves him and Barbara after getting a call from Gordon that the GCPD has cornered another Joker. Once Bruce is gone Jason pulls his gun and aims to the Joker they captured, Barbara throws a batarang at Jason to disarm him but misses and Jason kills him. The issue then ends with Jason asking Barbara when was the last time she missed
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
Him killing joker is not regression for me, but conflict with Bruce for another goddamn times because of another kill Joker kill Joker not is indeed regression in the sake of story line. Like come on Bruce, there are 3 Joker! Surely the world will not miss one or two.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Sergard

> Personally I don't like Jason going back to angry, punch first ask questions never mode. And the reveal about the Three Jokers completely wrecks Joker as character
> 
> *spoilers:*
> In a rip off from Arkham Knight, the Golden Age Joker has been dumping random people on Chemicals Ace to make more Jokers, looking to make "the perfect Joker" and thus, Batman has been fighting random Jokerized people over the years with no one realizing it was different guys every time. Hopefully, Johns will lead with the ramifications of this in the coming issues but this is such a needless retcon that I don't know how he's going to write himself out of it. 
> *end of spoilers*


Okay. This sounds dumb. I can believe the first spoiler even though *spoilers:*
it's stupid of Bruce to leave Jason alone with the Joker (and Barbara).
*end of spoilers*
Are you sure that your second spoiler is 100% true?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Well, the guy posting the leaks also posted photos of his issue, so that's enough for me.

----------


## Zaresh

> Personally I don't like Jason going back to angry, punch first ask questions never mode. And the reveal about the Three Jokers completely wrecks Joker as character
> 
> *spoilers:*
> In a rip off from Arkham Knight, the Golden Age Joker has been dumping random people on Chemicals Ace to make more Jokers, looking to make "the perfect Joker" and thus, Batman has been fighting random Jokerized people over the years with no one realizing it was different guys every time. Hopefully, Johns will lead with the ramifications of this in the coming issues but this is such a needless retcon that I don't know how he's going to write himself out of it. 
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*

Angry or not, going by those leaks they posted there, Jason seems to be more informed about what's going on and who the survivor was than Bruce and Barbara, which is funny, when you take into account that both Bruce and Barbara are arguably the more detective and smart of the bats (besides Tim). I find it funny, at least. We will see how it all really is told next week.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Sergard

> Well, the guy posting the leaks also posted photos of his issue, so that's enough for me.


I think I'll wait for the first issue to be released and see for myself.
But thanks for sharing the leaks. Personally, I'm relieved because I thought that the spoilers would be way worse.


----

Something more positive: More Gotham Knights fanart!

Mori




maduva




Yaz

----------


## Restingvoice

> Personally I don't like Jason going back to angry, punch first ask questions never mode. And the reveal about the Three Jokers completely wrecks Joker as character
> 
> *spoilers:*
> In a rip off from Arkham Knight, the Golden Age Joker has been dumping random people on Chemicals Ace to make more Jokers, looking to make "the perfect Joker" and thus, Batman has been fighting random Jokerized people over the years with no one realizing it was different guys every time. Hopefully, Johns will lead with the ramifications of this in the coming issues but this is such a needless retcon that I don't know how he's going to write himself out of it. 
> *end of spoilers*


Yeah, that's dumb because apparently that company can make anything these days.
Also, that implies that once this is over, we the Joker we're going to get is that one. The most difficult one to write because of his subtlety.
Well, let's see how long they can maintain that consistency. I'll give it a month.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Personally I don't like Jason going back to angry, punch first ask questions never mode. And the reveal about the Three Jokers completely wrecks Joker as character
> 
> *spoilers:*
> In a rip off from Arkham Knight, the Golden Age Joker has been dumping random people on Chemicals Ace to make more Jokers, looking to make "the perfect Joker" and thus, Batman has been fighting random Jokerized people over the years with no one realizing it was different guys every time. Hopefully, Johns will lead with the ramifications of this in the coming issues but this is such a needless retcon that I don't know how he's going to write himself out of it. 
> *end of spoilers*


You know what? Not angry at that. Its something I've felt should have happened for awhile now, and hoped would happen in this.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

https://twitter.com/mike711514/statu...25026008592385
Heh

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Some quotes I found interesting from the Newsarama article




> "We choose characters who resonate with players on a few different axes," says Fleur Marty, the senior producer speaking at DC FanDome. "We wanted heroes who embody different aspects of the Bat Family – the detective side, the fighter, the scourge of the underworld, and the urban legend. We looked for characters that offer players a unique starting point and then a long runway for growth. Ultimately we wanted heroes that could take on the forces that threaten Gotham City, with each bringing their own unique perspective."
> 
> ---
> 
> At a basic level, however, each hero comes equipped with a core set of proficiencies. Nightwing uses his signature dual Escrima Sticks and mastery of acrobatics to effectively manage large groups of enemies. *Red Hood's anti-hero status is reflected in his fighting styles, a brawler equipped with a proficiency in multiple combat techniques and weapons.* Robin combines his intellect with his expertise with a collapsible quarterstaff, tapping into the Justice League satellite for short-range teleportation and stealth cloaking.


https://www.gamesradar.com/gotham-kn...rkham-formula/

Assuming they actually give Jason an arsenal to use, he could be the most fun character to use.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Some quotes I found interesting from the Newsarama article
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.gamesradar.com/gotham-kn...rkham-formula/
> 
> Assuming they actually give Jason an arsenal to use, he could be the most fun character to use.


I was already going to main Jason, but that just ups the fun factor.

----------


## Sergard

Philip Tan (artist of various Red Hood: Outlaw variant covers) seems to be a big Red Hood fan - and a fan of Stephen Oyoung who will voice Red Hood in the Gotham Knights game. (I also think it's cool that Stephen Oyoung has retweeted Gotham Knights fanart on his Twitter page.)

Philip Tan Twitter 23-08-2020.jpg


-----


Watchtower Database released their review of Batman: The Adventures Continue Chapter 10 yesterday.

----------


## Jackalope89

I'll admit, its fun watching the guys on Watchtower Database literally have meltdowns trying to figure out how to squeeze everything into a single timeline. From the most minute details to actual major events.

----------


## Zaresh

> I'll admit, its fun watching the guys on Watchtower Database literally have meltdowns trying to figure out how to squeeze everything into a single timeline. From the most minute details to actual major events.


I go almost all their videos softy laughing. They're pretty fun, and the videos are really well made. Thanks again, guys for sharing these videos.

----------


## Immortal Hulk

> I was already going to main Jason, but that just ups the fun factor.


No doubt he's gonna be my main, too.

----------


## Sergard

More _Gotham Knights_ fanart. I think all the fanart is a good sign that people are hyped for the game and the characters.


acclast




kaokaocin




BX

----------


## Sergard

pochip




xylo




Nix

----------


## Arsenal

Read today’s issue. I enjoyed it for what it is, though I wish it was placed in an annual or something so it didn’t disrupt the flow of the current story as much.

----------


## RedBird

Nice! More fan art  :Cool: 

Can't say I have any interest in the Titans show, not after that last mess of a season.

But Gotham Knights looks really interesting, I'm genuinely surprised that they essentially managed to green light a 'Batman game' without Batman as a protagonist, that's a bold move.

And boy, Three Jokers sure was something. I know there might be some division here, but from first impressions, I liked it. The art is beautiful, the whole comic is very moody and I enjoyed the slow build up to the mystery. Also, I liked Jason here. 

*spoilers:*
He actually gets to do, quite frankly, a good portion of the detective work in this issue, his morals and boundaries in comparison with Bruce and Babs are set up clearly, he is tense and brutal at times, but no, I didn't take that as regression at all, more just tension from the high stakes, and the obvious fact that they are dealing with the Joker. Admittedly, the actual _build up_ to that 'ending scene' has me feeling a little mixed, I might need to reflect on this one for a while. 
*end of spoilers* But overall, I'm still looking forward to issue 2.

----------


## Katana500

Three Jokers is very exciting!

*spoilers:*
 I think Jason is very quickly going to realize that killing Joker doesn't solve his issues and make him feel better. A Vengeance Feels Empty situation. 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Zaresh

About the 3 jokers.

*spoilers:*
I didn't read yet the 3 Jokers issue but, I knew it. Heh, I knew that Jason's role in the story was going to have a lot of detectiving on it: those leaks were pointing at it. Shame on you, Babs (Bruce at this point doesn't do much detecting, eh? And the sadest part is, that no matter the writer, it's what's nowadays his MO). I want that Batman movie to come already so much :/). Thanks for confirming, @Redbird.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## scary harpy

> Three Jokers is very exciting!
> 
> *spoilers:*
>  I think Jason is very quickly going to realize that killing Joker doesn't solve his issues and make him feel better. A Vengeance Feels Empty situation. 
> *end of spoilers*


I this Jason *spoilers:*
 killed the wrong Joker obviously; he killed the Clown when he should have killed the Comedian.
*end of spoilers*

How sad. I liked the idea of the Criminal and the Clown. After all, every deck has 2 Jokers.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

The leaks were accurate and yes, the story is a mess. 

Jason does show a regression since is once again rash, impulsive and punch first, ask questions later. Him getting to kill one Joker feels  like Johns stroking his own ego but at the same time it loses meaning when turns out that was just one of dozens of Jokers that have been running around over the years with no one realizing it was a different guy every time. Not a good look for a superhero that is billed like one of the best detectives in fiction. And even if it turns out a fakeout, the idea of Jason asking for mercy and saying he will do anything up to join the Joker during DOITF is disgusting and shows that Johns doesn't get Jason on more than a superficial level.

----------


## Rise

Chill it with the spoilers and calm down. The issue just come out today and many haven't read it yet.

----------


## DurararaFTW

> I this Jason *spoilers:*
>  killed the wrong Joker obviously; he killed the Clown when he should have killed the Comedian.
> *end of spoilers*
> 
> How sad. I liked the idea of the Criminal and the Clown. After all, every deck has 2 Jokers.


*spoilers:*
Clown was Death in the Family, Comedian was Killing Joke, I believe.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Zaresh

Ah, right.

Sorry for my little bit of spoilers. It's not the most spoiling post, but, eh, sorry about it anyways. I'll put the tags now.
Still haven't read it, btw.

----------


## scary harpy

> *spoilers:*
> Clown was Death in the Family, Comedian was Killing Joke, I believe.
> *end of spoilers*


I thought Comedian was both; I thought Clown was the Silver Age Joker.

Guess I'm confused.  :Frown:

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Even if we assume the idea of multiple Jokers running around as true, DITF and TKJ were published in the same year, just with months of difference so it should be the same guy in both stories. the only reason the're treated as different individuals is the forced symbolism of giving one Joker to each hero.

----------


## DurararaFTW

> I thought Comedian was both; I thought Clown was the Silver Age Joker.
> 
> Guess I'm confused.





> Even if we assume the idea of multiple Jokers running around as true, DITF and TKJ were published in the same year, just with months of difference so it should be the same guy in both stories. the only reason the're treated as different individuals is the forced symbolism of giving one Joker to each hero.


This was the story where the Joker became Iran's ambassador to the UN, proximity to The Killing Joke not withstanding, that was pretty Silver Agey.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

That's irrelevant, it should be the same guy either way.

----------


## Trt-R5

Well, I loved it. Without spoiling anything, I think johns really got Jason's voice and brought back some of the things people loved about winnick's characterization without regressing him to villain status. It's probably the best Jason we've had in the last few years (in my opinion of course) and I do think that most Jason fans will like it.

----------


## Sergard

I enjoyed Three Jokers #1. There are some hidden depths to it. But it will depend on #2 and #3 if I like the story or not - and personally, I'm glad it's only three issues long. The story has a very intense atmosphere - and normally, for this kind of stories, I tend to lose interest very fast when I have to constantly wait a month for the next chapter.


-----

Can we take a moment to appreciate these designs?



(source)




(source)

----------


## Jackalope89

^^^^
That controller looks awesome.

But just read 3 Jokers myself, and I stand by what I said before; if anyone deserved to end (a certain) Joker, it was Jason. And Babs "missing", well, considering she suffered directly because of the clown too, in her own separate but just as awful way, yeah. Can't fault either of them for that.

----------


## Jman27

> ^^^^
> That controller looks awesome.
> 
> But just read 3 Jokers myself, and I stand by what I said before; if anyone deserved to end (a certain) Joker, it was Jason. And Babs "missing", well, considering she suffered directly because of the clown too, in her own separate but just as awful way, yeah. Can't fault either of them for that.


Plus that was his whole purpose for coming back I like that he finally did it and plus that line with Babs was cool. I just hope its the right one

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> *Plus that was his whole purpose for coming back* I like that he finally did it and plus that line with Babs was cool. I just hope its the right one


No, Jason's reason to come back was because he wanted to know if he mattered so little to Bruce that he never bothered to avenge him, getting back at Joker was an extra.

----------


## Restingvoice

> ^^^^
> That controller looks awesome.
> 
> But just read 3 Jokers myself, and I stand by what I said before; if anyone deserved to end (a certain) Joker, it was Jason. And Babs "missing", well, considering she suffered directly because of the clown too, in her own separate but just as awful way, yeah. Can't fault either of them for that.


Oooh. She should break his spine. Permanently. I don't know how to do that without a gun, but Bane's style is an acceptable alternative.

----------


## Arsenal

Honestly, I like that he got to do what he did but it wasn’t exactly on his terms. Makes it feel even more like the bitter sweet victory it was.

----------


## AmiMizuno

https://www.cbr.com/titans-season-3-...todd-red-hood/

This should be interesting

----------


## Zaresh

> No, Jason's reason to come back was because he wanted to know if he mattered so little to Bruce that he never bothered to avenge him, getting back at Joker was an extra.


Yeah, I agree. Jason's biggest point and obsession during UtH was to know if he was loved at all. Because he loves Bruce, he really loves, or loved, Bruce (I think he still does, even if he's given up in having something meaningful, like a parent). That's why it hurts so much that Bruce doesn't love him enough to let Jason kill Joker, or kill Joker Bruce himself. But as Lobdell's Jason pointed out near the conclusion of the first half of Rebirth RHATO, love's not enough. Which is true, in real life, for a lot of parental relationships that have deep and heavy issues.

----------


## RedBird

> No, Jason's reason to come back was because he wanted to know if he mattered so little to Bruce that he never bothered to avenge him, getting back at Joker was an extra.


Agreed, although I'm not against Jason killing at least one of these Jokers, and I don't find the concept of Jason killing the Joker himself as some kind of backslide into regressive territory, (even rhato had him ending the clown in hallucinations). In all the _'finally Jason got his revenge'_ commentary, that point, is something I see being kind of misconstrued or outright forgotten about Jasons character and his arc.
Jason has had plenty of opportunities to kill the Joker himself if that was his main problem (spoiler alert, it's not). Red Hood Lost Days even makes a point to show Jason stopping himself only moments from killing Joker, realising that he wants something 'more'. As Dark mentioned, wanting Bruce to prove he cared for Jason by doing what Jason would have done, had the circumstances been reversed.

I'm just gonna go on a slight tangent here but, aside from obvious reasons for why the Joker can never really be killed outside the narrative. Post UTRH, where the answer to Jasons question was disappointingly clear, how do you guys justify Jason's refusal to take action himself? Personally, I always presumed that despite the circumstances from UTRH, Jason is still waiting for Bruce to take action and kill the Joker, leaving that chance open for the sliver of hope that it might still happen. In a strange way, despite the fact that Jason killing the Joker could be seen as simply sweet revenge for himself, to me, Jason killing the Joker (as in all of them now I guess) would actually be a bittersweet, but ultimately unselfish act. Finally ending the terror the clown has inflicted on the city and his family, whilst sadly throwing away the last meaningful opportunity he could give to Bruce to finally prove he cared more about Jason than the mission, which was something Jason wanted more so, than the clowns demise. 

Going back to Three Jokers, do I think it is necessarily trying to say all that with it's story? No. Not at all.
It's entertaining, and I'm intrigued none the less, but truth be told, I am a little wary that this might ultimately be another _'Revenge Bad'_ story line, especially one that lacks any self awareness and nuance, the worst kind.
Or _worse yet_, if it actually ends up with Jason as the final Joker and/or antagonist. Ugh, I'm getting 'Suicide Squad movie Joker fan theory' flashbacks just thinking about it.

By the way, have any of you seen the trailer for Three Jokers on the DC youtube channel? At the 44 second mark it features an interesting panel that I couldn't recall being teased previously, it appeared to be Babs and Jason caught in a fire while one the Jokers takes pictures of their demise. Going by the context of the Joker covers, I'm guessing that may be in issue 3?

Edit: Found another one, at around the 1:06 mark there is a very very quick, blink and you'll miss it panel of Joker sneaking up behind Red Hood with a crowbar.

----------


## Zaresh

> Agreed, although I'm not against Jason killing at least one of these Jokers, and I don't find the concept of Jason killing the Joker himself as some kind of backslide into regressive territory, (even rhato had him ending the clown in hallucinations). In all the _'finally Jason got his revenge'_ commentary, that point, is something I see being kind of misconstrued or outright forgotten about Jasons character and his arc.
> Jason has had plenty of opportunities to kill the Joker himself if that was his main problem (spoiler alert, it's not). Red Hood Lost Days even makes a point to show Jason stopping himself only moments from killing Joker, realising that he wants something 'more'. As Dark mentioned, wanting Bruce to prove he cared for Jason by doing what Jason would have done, had the circumstances been reversed.
> 
> I'm just gonna go on a slight tangent here but, aside from obvious reasons for why the Joker can never really be killed outside the narrative. Post UTRH, where the answer to Jasons question was disappointingly clear, how do you guys justify Jason's refusal to take action himself? Personally, I always presumed that despite the circumstances from UTRH, Jason is still waiting for Bruce to take action and kill the Joker, leaving that chance open for the sliver of hope that it might still happen. In a strange way, despite the fact that Jason killing the Joker could be seen as simply sweet revenge for himself, to me, Jason killing the Joker (as in all of them now I guess) would actually be a bittersweet, but ultimately unselfish act. Finally ending the terror the clown has inflicted on the city and his family, whilst sadly throwing away the last meaningful opportunity he could give to Bruce to finally prove he cared more about Jason than the mission, which was something Jason wanted more so, than the clowns demise.


A believable reason for Jason to not kill the Joker... Hmmm.

Well, there's the fact that killing him in cold blood serves no purpose and doesn't send a message, or sends a message that's not one Jason would want. Joker means a lot to Bruce, apparently. So killing him would trouble Bruce even more than any other rogue in his gallery. And then he would probably resurrect him somehow, because... whatever.

There's also Bruce probably feeling not exactly disappointed, but guilt, and concerned, about Jason killing the Joker. But then, he probably would felt slightly disappointed. And Jason, eh, probably doesn't want to deal with Bruce disappointed  on him because the Joker, not because the Joker. And then it's giving Bruce more fuel for his neverending guilt trip, making him feel guilty for Jason killing the Joker. And I don't see Jason allowing Bruce to appropriate that for himself. It's Jason choice to kill Joker, and the consequences are for him alone. Not Bruce allowed in this party.

And then, there's the point that this isn't just about what Joker did to Jason. Joker has hurt, maimed and killed a lot more people. It wouldn't be fair, that he did himself, not in cold blood. Unless Jason had to because Joker was now unstoppable and an immediate menace to populace. I can see Jason killing Joker as some preventive action, in the face of a potential near plot of the clown, or because he was really, really unstoppable and no one was to deal with him. Just like he has done with other criminals several times, it's a thing he does, I think. He wouldn't care about Bruce or any other say and opinions on it.

And then, there's the problem with the hole that the Joker dying leaves in Gotham. If he's dead, someone is going to try to fill his shoes, probably a lot of actually mentally unwell people, besides some psychopaths who want to use fear for their rise into power. And that would mean a feast of craziness that would hurt a lot of innocents, I think. Not exactly a gang war, but an escalation of attacks between a bunch of mad men. And Jason cares about the ones living in the city.

These are a few justifications that I can think of right now.

----------


## Konja7

There is something in the Three Jokers Issue 1 that I don't understand.

Why is it implied Jason doesn't die? 

In the dialogue, it sounds like Jason was "just" extremely hurt, but survives.

I mean, if Jason resurrected for an external force, it isn't Jason's tenacity what makes him survive (and there is no way Joker could expect his survival).

----------


## RedBird

> There is something in the Three Jokers that I don't understand.
> 
> Why Issue 1 of Joker implied Jason doesn't die?


I thought of it as Joker basically taking credit for Jasons resurrection, not so much implying that he left him alive, more so that he knew Jason would 'live' again and proclaiming that that was part of his grand scheme and desire.
All to get under Jasons skin by trying to take the agency of Jasons return away from him.

----------


## Restingvoice

> There is something in the Three Jokers Issue 1 that I don't understand.
> 
> Why is it implied Jason doesn't die? 
> 
> In the dialogue, it sounds like Jason was "just" extremely hurt, but survives.
> 
> I mean, if Jason resurrected for an external force, it isn't Jason's tenacity that makes him survive (and there is no way Joker could expect his survival).


When Joker finished crowbarring him, he was still alive. This Joker said he left him alive to hurt Batman

Johns forget about the bomb I think, or in his version, there's no bomb




> I thought of it as Joker basically taking credit for Jasons resurrection, not so much implying that he left him alive, more so that he knew Jason would 'live' again and proclaiming that that was part of his grand scheme and desire.
> All to get under Jasons skin by trying to take the agency of Jasons return away from him.


Hurm... I guess this works...

----------


## Sergard

Dexter Soy (Little _Tales from the Dark Multiverse - Batman: Hush_ sneak peek)




Nick Robles (inspired by _Gotham Knights_ Jason Todd)

_"Jason"_




bententodd (_Red Hood: Outlaw_ #48 fanart)

----------


## Wrestler

Fans of Jason must be pretty pissed with Three Jokers since Jason was pretty upset with all the things Jokers was saying (giving the sense it was true what he was saying), especially that part where he cowarded under the beating unleashed by the Joker.

----------


## Rise

No, I'm not nor I see it as him being "coward" or whatever.

----------


## Wrestler

> I thought of it as Joker basically taking credit for Jasons resurrection, not so much implying that he left him alive, more so that he knew Jason would 'live' again and proclaiming that that was part of his grand scheme and desire.
> All to get under Jasons skin by trying to take the agency of Jasons return away from him.


Or he expected that Batman would show up before the bomb went off and would save Jason. Saying what he said to Jason takes everything away from him, because it doesn't matter he ressurected, Joker never wanted him dead in the first place (maybe), and Jason living granted his wish.

----------


## Rise

> Dexter Soy (Little _Tales from the Dark Multiverse - Batman: Hush_ sneak peek)


What's that? Soy is going to draw Jason again? I miss the guy.

----------


## Sergard

> What's that? Soy is going to draw Jason again? I miss the guy.


Dexter Soy is the artist for _Dark Multiverse - Batman: Hush_. The oneshot was announced two weeks ago in the DC November solicitations.






> written by PHILLIP KENNEDY JOHNSON
> art by DEXTER SOY
> cover by DAVID MARQUEZ
> ONE-SHOT | PRESTIGE FORMAT
> ON SALE 11/3/20
> $5.99 US | 48 PAGES | FC | DC
> Following the smash success of last years Tales from the Dark Multiverse series, DC returns with five new tales that explore dark, twisted timelines spinning out some of DCs most iconic stories. It begins with the story that kicked off the modern era for Batman...Hush! The landmark story introduced Bruce Waynes childhood friend Tommy Elliot as he tried to destroy the Dark Knight...but what if Tommy had ruined Bruces life when they were children?
> Tommy Elliot grew up to be the Dark Prince of Gotham City with the help of Talia al Ghul, Oswald Cobblepot, Harvey Dent, and Jason Todd! But vengeance is coming in the form of Batman the Silenced...who will tear Tommys life apart! Written by rising star Phillip Kennedy Johnson (The Last God) with jaw-dropping artwork from Dexter Soy (Batman and the Outsiders)!

----------


## Rise

I see, thanks. It's seem interesting enough to give it a shot.

----------


## AmiMizuno

What do you guys think about Red Hood coming to the Titans show?

----------


## Jackalope89

> What do you guys think about Red Hood coming to the Titans show?


You actually missed the discussion a few pages back. A lot of people like Curran Walters as Jason, but have reservations about him as Red Hood.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

More Gotham Knights info




> *How different can the Knights become? Will my Red Hood be different to someone else's Red Hood?*
> *Patrick Redding:* "Between the ability tree for Red Hood (which is very unique), and his gear spec, and the way you can modify and upgrade both his ranged weapons, his melee weapons, and his suit - absolutely. In fact that range [between character builds] remains actually quite robust throughout the entire game.".
> How do character skins work? Are they made up of individual pieces of armour, or full outfits?
> *Fleur Marty:* "They're a mix of all that."
> 
> *Patrick Redding:* "So, just to be clear, when we talk about Gear, we're talking about your melee weapon, your ranged weapon, and your suit, which has certain armor characteristics.
> 
> And then there's your suit style - that's the sort of 'skinning' of the suit. Because we didn't want it to turn into just a random crazy quilt, what we've done is we've got distinct suit looks. And then within that there's accessory variation that the player can tap into, and that way you get a chance to tweak it and make it exactly the way you like it."


https://www.ign.com/articles/batman-...VgvcVR4x9B3_kM

With some neat screenshots of Jason included




I'm starting to get the impression, from the promo materials and interviews, that Jason will have a pivotal role in the game.

----------


## Zaresh

> More Gotham Knights info
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.ign.com/articles/batman-...VgvcVR4x9B3_kM
> 
> With some neat screenshots of Jason included
> 
> 
> ...


That's the impression that I've got from the intro/trailer movie, to be honest. Him and Barbara being the ones with more weigh plot wise. But as I mentioned in other post, I can't believe that Dick wouldn't have a big role, with the Owls being the big bads and all that. I know that the Court is technically a Bruce villain, but we all know that they were intended for Dick and he does have ties to their history. Unless suddently all of them have ties, somehow.

And I'm glad to read that Jason is the weapons specialist after all. That's going to be a fun run to play.

----------


## Sergard

> https://www.cbr.com/titans-season-3-...todd-red-hood/
> 
> This should be interesting





> Red Hood (Series star Curran Walters)  Jason Todd now dons a new identity in his obsession to take down his old team.
> 
> Barbara Gordon (to be cast)  Former Batgirl Barbara Gordon is now Commissioner of the Gotham City Police Department. Although she has a past relationship with Dick Grayson, she is wary of the Titans now being in Gotham.
> 
> Dr. Jonathan Crane (to be cast)  Known to most as the Scarecrow, Crane is a current inmate at Arkham Asylum and offers his services as a profiler and consultant for the Gotham City Police Department.


I knew that Jason would go up against the Titans but I wasn't aware that he will be "obsessed" to take them down. I haven't watched the second season. I only know that the Titans blamed Jason for something he didn't do, then Jason wanted to jump off the rooftop but Dick could prevent it - and later on Jason has some sweet moments with Rose ... and at the end Jason drives away on a bike and no one of the Titans seem to care. Can someone enlighten me what I missed?

So Barbara is an old flame ... I hope this won't turn into another shipping war between Dick/Starfire and Dick/Barbara fans.

Scarecrow's part sounds interesting. He's an inmate but also helps the police. So he's basically Hannibal Lector.




> What do you guys think about Red Hood coming to the Titans show?


I'm curious how Curran Walters will interpret the Red Hood persona. He is a great Robin Jason - and personally I would have preferred a Robin spin-off with him. There are so many stories CW could have told: Ma Gunn, Nocturna, Jason investigating his father's "death", Batman: The Cult, his friendship with Eddie Bloomberg/Kid Devil, etc. It feels a little like wasted potential to turn Jason into Red Hood so soon.

----------


## DurararaFTW

> I knew that Jason would go up against the Titans but I wasn't aware that he will be "obsessed" to take them down. I haven't watched the second season. I only know that the Titans blamed Jason for something he didn't do, then Jason wanted to jump off the rooftop but Dick could prevent it - and later on Jason has some sweet moments with Rose ... and at the end Jason drives away on a bike and no one of the Titans seem to care. Can someone enlighten me what I missed?
> 
> So Barbara is an old flame ... I hope this won't turn into another shipping war between Dick/Starfire and Dick/Barbara fans.
> 
> Scarecrow's part sounds interesting. He's an inmate but also helps the police. So he's basically Hannibal Lector.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious how Curran Walters will interpret the Red Hood persona. He is a great Robin Jason - and personally I would have preferred a Robin spin-off with him. There are so many stories CW could have told: Ma Gunn, Nocturna, Jason investigating his father's "death", Batman: The Cult, his friendship with Eddie Bloomberg/Kid Devil, etc. It feels a little like wasted potential to turn Jason into Red Hood so soon.


In the first episode Jason got in front of tv camera and said "Titans are back, bitches!" This was broadcast, seen by Deathstroke who then came out of retirement to kill the Titans, freeing Dr Light from prison to fight them after 4 months of prep time. before the 4 month timeskip Dick does in fact start a new group of Titans with Gar, Rose and Jason (requested by Bruce). In missions against Dr Light, Dick kept the younger Titans benched, caused Jason to convince Gar to go off alone to find him. Deathstroke and Dr. Light capture Jason, sets a trap to trade him for Rose, Dick tries to save Jason, the trap is sprung and Jason falls off a building but is caught by the Superboy (first appearance of the character), Rose has been leaving messages in the Titans building as a means of psychological warfare, Jason is thought responsible, who also can't get the experience of falling of a building out of his head, Jason gets up on the roof to jump but Dick shows up and tells him how this war started because he ended up involving Jericho in their fight with Deathstroke and ended up getting him killed.

After this story Rose leaves (no one suspects her of being responsible for the messages), Jason goes after her because Rose hit on him in the previous episode, Rose tries to get Jason to take him to Wayne manor. Jason rather opens up to her about his past before Batman. Rose gets second thoughts about using Jason for Deathstrokes revenge, heads back to San francisco to fight Deathstroke, Jason does not want to go with her. Donna dies in the fight against Superboys creators. Jason comes attend the funeral on his motorbike.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I knew that Jason would go up against the Titans but I wasn't aware that he will be "obsessed" to take them down. I haven't watched the second season. I only know that the Titans blamed Jason for something he didn't do, then Jason wanted to jump off the rooftop but Dick could prevent it - and later on Jason has some sweet moments with Rose ... and at the end Jason drives away on a bike and no one of the Titans seem to care. Can someone enlighten me what I missed?
> 
> So Barbara is an old flame ... I hope this won't turn into another shipping war between Dick/Starfire and Dick/Barbara fans.
> 
> Scarecrow's part sounds interesting. He's an inmate but also helps the police. So he's basically Hannibal Lector.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious how Curran Walters will interpret the Red Hood persona. He is a great Robin Jason - and personally I would have preferred a Robin spin-off with him. There are so many stories CW could have told: Ma Gunn, Nocturna, Jason investigating his father's "death", Batman: The Cult, his friendship with Eddie Bloomberg/Kid Devil, etc. It feels a little like wasted potential to turn Jason into Red Hood so soon.


*spoilers:*
In season 2 of Titans, Jason is kidnapped by Deathstroke, and while captive, he's kicked off the side of a tall building while strapped to a chair. If not for the timely arrival of Conner Kent, he would have gone "splat". And boy does he realize it. The moment he's falling keeps playing over and over in his mind (he has PTSD), and when he comes out of his room for something, the others begin blaming him for certain things going wrong or something that really affects them emotionally. Dick does talk him down, but then later on, wanting to get away from everything, and joined by Rose, the two become quite involved. That said, Jason finds out Slade is Rose's father and flips out. Suspecting she's working for Slade to torment him some more. From then on, Jason leaves the Titans. And Bruce being Bruce, can seemingly only focus on one thing (and one thing only) at a time. Meaning no one tries to clear up the misunderstanding for Jason, no one apologizes for the false accusations... The last he's seen is when Donna's body is shipped off to Themyscira. He's on a motorcycle a good distance away from everyone else, and you can see he is (rightfully) pissed off at them.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Sergard

> In the first episode *Jason got in front of tv camera and said "Titans are back, bitches!" This was broadcast, seen by Deathstroke who then came out of retirement to kill the Titans*, freeing Dr Light from prison to fight them after 4 months of prep time. before the 4 month timeskip Dick does in fact start a new group of Titans with Gar, Rose and Jason (requested by Bruce). In missions against Dr Light, Dick kept the younger Titans benched, caused Jason to convince Gar to go off alone to find him. *Deathstroke* and Dr. Light *capture Jason*, sets a trap to trade him for Rose, *Dick tries to save Jason, the trap is sprung and Jason falls off a building but is caught by the Superboy (first appearance of the character)*, Rose has been leaving messages in the Titans building as a means of psychological warfare, *Jason is thought responsible, who also can't get the experience of falling of a building out of his head, Jason gets up on the roof to jump but Dick shows up* and tells him how this war started because he ended up involving Jericho in their fight with Deathstroke and ended up getting him killed.
> 
> After this story Rose leaves (no one suspects her of being responsible for the messages), Jason goes after her because Rose hit on him in the previous episode, Rose tries to get Jason to take him to Wayne manor. *Jason rather opens up to her* about his past before Batman. Rose gets second thoughts about using Jason for Deathstrokes revenge, heads back to San francisco to fight Deathstroke, Jason does not want to go with her. Donna dies in the fight against Superboys creators. Jason comes attend the funeral on his motorbike.


I'm sorry. I realize now that I kept my explanation too short. I actually know about the stuff in bold too but I only mentioned the things I know about that happened towards the end.
I also remember that Hank and Jason had a tiny character development. Hank didn't like Jason at first but when Jason was captured by Deathstroke, Hank was really mad about it - and later on the whole emotional growth went to complete waste because Hank immediately sided with the other Titans when they accused Jason of ... putting crosses in Raven's room, or? I hope I remember that correctly. Wasn't that the scene when Jason is alone in his room looking out of the window, still being in shock because of the fall and the near-death experience - and then Raven storms in and screams at him? (I also know that Raven suspected Jason because he had made a hurtful comment towards her in an earlier training session.) The Titans accuse him and Jason states that he would rather want to be with Deathstroke than with them and leaves (for the rooftop).

And Jason is a thespian.  :Cool:

----------


## Zaresh

Man, the second season was a mess script wise. They better get, well, better.

----------


## DurararaFTW

> I'm sorry. I realize now that I kept my explanation too short. I actually know about the stuff in bold too but I only mentioned the things I know about that happened towards the end.
> I also remember that Hank and Jason had a tiny character development. Hank didn't like Jason at first but when Jason was captured by Deathstroke, Hank was really mad about it - and later on the whole emotional growth went to complete waste because Hank immediately sided with the other Titans when they accused Jason of ... putting crosses in Raven's room, or? I hope I remember that correctly. Wasn't that the scene when Jason is alone in his room looking out of the window, still being in shock because of the fall and the near-death experience - and then Raven storms in and screams at him? (I also know that Raven suspected Jason because he had made a hurtful comment towards her in an earlier training session.) The Titans accuse him and Jason states that he would rather want to be with Deathstroke than with them and leaves (for the rooftop).
> 
> And Jason is a thespian.


Donna, Hank and Dawn also find stuff in their room that indicate someone is messing with them. Gar and Jason are the only ones seemingly left out.

----------


## Sergard

> More Gotham Knights info
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.ign.com/articles/batman-...VgvcVR4x9B3_kM
> 
> With some neat screenshots of Jason included
> 
> [...]
> ...



Hell yeah. Now I'm stoked.   :Cool: 




> What's the timescale of the game? Is there a day-night cycle?
> Fleur Marty: "It's actually over many nights. So yes, we do kind of have a day night cycle, but the daytime is when you spend your time in the Belfry. The Belfry is super-central to our game because it's your base of operations. You get to go back there, analyze all the clues that you've picked up during your previous night, *have a little chat with Alfred*, craft your gear, and really prepare yourself for the next night of crime fighting. So yeah, daytime is Belfry, and then at night you're roaming the streets, fighting criminals and unraveling the mystery."

----------


## Arsenal

If I’m remembering the end of S2 right, I wouldn’t be surprised if S3’s Blackfire & Red Hood story lines end up being connected.

----------


## TheCape

> That's the impression that I've got from the intro/trailer movie, to be honest. Him and Barbara being the ones with more weigh plot wise. But as I mentioned in other post, I can't believe that Dick wouldn't have a big role, with the Owls being the big bads and all that. I know that the Court is technically a Bruce villain, but we all know that they were intended for Dick and he does have ties to their history. Unless suddently all of them have ties, somehow.
> 
> And I'm glad to read that Jason is the weapons specialist after all. That's going to be a fun run to play.


I think that Jason and Barbara are the ones that they are taking their losses (Gordon for Babs and Bruce for Jason) the hardest and a lot of the game is gonna be then coming to terms with it, plus Babs recovering her confidence now that she is out of the chair.

Dick and Tim are seems to be pretty straigthfoward, they keep "figthing the good figth" like Bruce wanted then to, althougth for different angles, Dick is already an acomplish solo hero that is probably going back to Gothan because he owns it to Bruce, while Tim wants to prove to himself that he can be an equal to the rest of the family.

----------


## Sergard

> More Gotham Knights info
> 
> 
> 
> [...]
> 
> [...]


Oh, I didn't realize that there's a Janus Cosmetics advertising. That's the company of Roman Sionis/Black Mask's family, right?

----------


## Sergard

> Or a commission.


You were right. It is a commission.

Travis Mercer

_"Red Hood and the outlaws commission. Pencil and ink versions. Never seem to tire of drawing these characters"_

----------


## Zaresh

Hey, for those in the Gotham Knights discords, they've reseted the roles' votations again. So if you vouted for Red Hood, you can vote again.

----------


## AmiMizuno

Okay, I don't mind Jason being the Robin who went wayward and does his own version of vigilante. Which would become a  tension with the Batfam. The question should be how far should this be? I'm getting tired of them always fighting when they could easily just have him arrest no? Then again didn't he almost out who Dick and Damian are?

----------


## Zaresh

> Okay, I don't mind Jason being the Robin who went wayward and does his own version of vigilante. Which would become a  tension with the Batfam. The question should be how far should this be? I'm getting tired of them always fighting when they could easily just have him arrest no? Then again didn't he almost out who Dick and Damian are?


Morrison's Jason is a fake.
Never trust anything he did.

I'm joking. Half-joking. But in any case. No one likes to bring Morrison's Jason because it was way, way, way OOC.

----------


## Sergard

Has anyone else read _Batman: The Adventures Continue_ Chapter #11 yet?
I have a theory, where this story is going.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Okay, I don't mind Jason being the Robin who went wayward and does his own version of vigilante. Which would become a  tension with the Batfam. The question should be how far should this be? I'm getting tired of them always fighting when they could easily just have him arrest no? Then again didn't he almost out who Dick and Damian are?


The problem with comics is some conflict are not allowed to be resolved. Just like Batman/Catwoman eternal flirting but I can't see DC will allow them married for real, because that means they can't write a story about Batman/Catwoman relationship dynamic anymore. Also that's why they can't let Joker dies even though on real life Joker will be hanged multiple times by or court after all he did. DC on New52 let Jason have an okay relationship with Batfam, but almost everytime some writer want to have Bat angst or conflict, they can create another 'tension' between Jason and Batfam. 
You get tired? Yeah me too, just like I get tired of BatCat flirting and breakup again, Damian regression again, Joker existence in general again. But of course DC doesn't care for that.

----------


## Sergard

In the meanwhile on Twitter:

John Boyega

John Boyega Twitter 26-08-2020.jpg



And OF COURSE there's already fanart.

kiara

_"introducing john boyega as the red hood"_

----------


## Swallowtail

> Has anyone else read _Batman: The Adventures Continue_ Chapter #11 yet?
> I have a theory, where this story is going.


Does it involve a crowbar and sustained torture?

Frankly, His hideous death seems to have agreed with this Jason. Or at least calmed him the hell down.

----------


## RedBird

> Or he expected that Batman would show up before the bomb went off and would save Jason. Saying what he said to Jason takes everything away from him, because it doesn't matter he ressurected, Joker never wanted him dead in the first place (maybe), and Jason living granted his wish.


That's certainly another way to look at it too. Either way, ultimately it's about Joker 'winning' and getting what he wants, taunting Jason with that statement, whether it's true or not.




> More Gotham Knights info
> 
> https://www.ign.com/articles/batman-...VgvcVR4x9B3_kM


Thanks for the link, honestly that article has just increased my excitement for the game  :Big Grin: 
And man those screenshots are beautiful, I love that you can actually see in the city windows, that the city actually feels 'lived in'.




> I'm starting to get the impression, from the promo materials and interviews, that Jason will have a pivotal role in the game.


Considering you have the option to play the game as one character all the way through, I'm doubtful that the story line will change all that much to necessarily give any one character more significance, but who knows, perhaps different dialogue between the characters (as in depending on who you select) might help to provide more nuance.

And as far as promotional material goes, perhaps the chosen screenshots were simply a way to appeal to the fans, since a recent fan poll on the Gotham Knights Twitter page had Red Hood as peoples first choice, with Nightwing a close second. Probably why we got a screenshot with Red Hood and another with Nightwing AND Red Hood.

----------


## AmiMizuno

> The problem with comics is some conflict are not allowed to be resolved. Just like Batman/Catwoman eternal flirting but I can't see DC will allow them married for real, because that means they can't write a story about Batman/Catwoman relationship dynamic anymore. Also that's why they can't let Joker dies even though on real life Joker will be hanged multiple times by or court after all he did. DC on New52 let Jason have an okay relationship with Batfam, but almost everytime some writer want to have Bat angst or conflict, they can create another 'tension' between Jason and Batfam. 
> You get tired? Yeah me too, just like I get tired of BatCat flirting and breakup again, Damian regression again, Joker existence in general again. But of course DC doesn't care for that.


I mean if you get a good writer. Their relationship dynamic doesn't have to end at all. Jst because you get married doesn't mean you still can't be you. Yea I don't get it because Dick helped Damian in many ways that Bruce couldn't always do.

----------


## Zaresh

> In the meanwhile on Twitter:
> 
> John Boyega
> 
> John Boyega Twitter 26-08-2020.jpg


I knew I liked the guy  :Cool: .

----------


## Sergard

More Gotham Knights fanart!

Robin (here's a close-up)





mcmramcm





Dusksunset

----------


## Jackalope89

> I knew I liked the guy .


John Boyega was my favorite in Force Awakens. Then he got done dirty going forward.  :Frown:

----------


## Rac7d*

> In the meanwhile on Twitter:
> 
> John Boyega
> 
> John Boyega Twitter 26-08-2020.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> And OF COURSE there's already fanart.
> ...


I think he may be too old

----------


## Zaresh

> John Boyega was my favorite in Force Awakens. Then he got done dirty going forward.


If they hadn't regressed his character in the second movie... Making him repeat the same chararter arc rather than make him going forward. Shameful T_T. I liked Oscar Isaac's character (Poe Dameron) too. But I usually have a thing for cool pilots of the aniki type generally (and then they made an idiot of him in the second movie).

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I just read issue 11 of The Adventure Continues. 

So much for Jason having a decent handling, they went so overboard in making him evil that it becomes ridiculous. I mean, a machine gun, really?

----------


## Restingvoice

> I just read issue 11 of The Adventure Continues. 
> 
> So much for Jason having a decent handling, they went so overboard in making him evil that it becomes ridiculous. I mean, a machine gun, really?


Oh? Sounds like some of _those_ fans will be happy. I went to the comment section of Gotham Knight analysis videos and there's a few who keep saying Jason using rubber bullet is lame.

----------


## upmiddowntown

Love seeing him in the new Gotham Knights game and in Three Jokers.
I always felt he is the most interesting member of the Bat-family.

----------


## Sergard

Gotham Knights Creators Shed Light On Whats To Come 




> *When you have four distinct characters, that means you have to reflect four unique playstyles that all work. What can you tell me about what makes each of these characters distinct,and compelling on their own within the game world?*
> 
> *Redding:* For us, they arent supposed to be four mini-Batmans. They are people who have trained and have some of that crimefighting DNA as a starting point, but either through virtue of their story or just their personalities, theyve started to evolve in these four distinct ways.
> 
> For example, our Robin, Tim Drake, hes relatively young. Hes a teenager. But hes still formidable. Its just that his focus becomes more on stealth and using the tricks to disrupt the AI and confuse and apply status effects.
> 
> Conversely, a character like Nightwing  while hes still very much a martial arts combatant  hes a very acrobatic character. Hes more ping-pongy. It allows him to tackle groups of enemies.
> 
> Theres a flavor and stylistic support, that we wanted to provide. Every player, regardless of their preference for how to play, can approach it the way they want.
> ...

----------


## Restingvoice

One way I can think of how they're gonna surprise people who don't read comics is by bringing out the All-Blades. I don't know if that's they're talking about but he did get the blades post-resurrection.

Someone reminds me... can he use the blades against the ghosts summoned by Deacon Blackfire in Batman Eternal or is it Untitled only?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> One way I can think of how they're gonna surprise people who don't read comics is by bringing out the All-Blades. I don't know if that's they're talking about but he did get the blades post-resurrection.
> 
> Someone reminds me... can he use the blades against the ghosts summoned by Deacon Blackfire in Batman Eternal or is it Untitled only?


The way Lobdell conceptualized, they work against any mythical/magical threat so Black fire's ghost shouldn't pose a problem for them.

----------


## Sergard

> I just read issue 11 of The Adventure Continues. 
> 
> So much for Jason having a decent handling, they went so overboard in making him evil that it becomes ridiculous. I mean, a machine gun, really?


I have a theory. I think the BTAC story was inspired by *spoilers:*
Detective Comics 571
*end of spoilers*.



I've found another RH:O #48 fanart. This time it's drawn by sdimo:

----------


## Zaresh

> Gotham Knights Creators Shed Light On What’s To Come


Battle mage. Oh, fuck yeah. Just PERFECT. I always, always, always like a battle mage. Or a ranger. I like rangers too. And thieves. Bards are cool, and going by the description, Tim's definitely shades of a bard.

Jason/Tim for me, is it.

Edit: cute fanart, btw. Very cute :3

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Unlettered page from Three Jokers #2
https://www.gamesradar.com/batman-th...ers-2-preview/

----------


## Aahz

> I just read issue 11 of The Adventure Continues.


Btw. does anybody know how many issues this series in going to have? My assumption was 12, but it doesn't look like they could wrap it up in the next issue.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Btw. does anybody know how many issues this series in going to have? My assumption was 12, but it doesn't look like they could wrap it up in the next issue.


24 online, 12 printed would be my guess.

----------


## Sergard

The November solicitations state that there are 7 issues in total - so 14 chapters (two chapters are one issue).

----------


## Sergard

Paolo Pantalena

_"Artemis one last ride!

Where the Outlaws will go? Find out in #redhood series"_




And here's a video showing another page with Jason and Artemis.

Where is Bizarro?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Paolo Pantalena
> 
> _"Artemis one last ride!
> 
> Where the Outlaws will go? Find out in #redhood series"_
> 
> And here's a video showing another page with Jason and Artemis.
> 
> Where is Bizarro?


There's also this panel with N52 Jason



https://www.instagram.com/p/CEPPQ4bnAHU/

About Bizarro, he's probably stuck in whatever realm Trigon was locked in.

EDIT: 

Looking more into Pantalena's timeline, there are two pics with Artemis in a different costume, alongside the JL





Doesn't look like any of the current JL lineups, promo stuff? Tease for a new JL?

----------


## Sergard

Funnily enough, the panel with Artemis on the bike reminds me of this scene from Red Hood and the Outlaws #25:

Red Hood and the Outlaws #25 Artemis.JPG







> [...]
> 
> Doesn't look like any of the current JL lineups, promo stuff? Tease for a new JL?


Artemis was also shown in the Wonder Woman Annual #4.



Maybe Artemis will play a bigger role in the Wonder family/franchise in the future.






> Unlettered page from Three Jokers #2
> https://www.gamesradar.com/batman-th...ers-2-preview/


Barbara and Jason both look unhappy. At least that's how I interpret the panels. Jason is alone - physically and emotionally - and Barbara is just following Batman's lead.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

https://www.instagram.com/p/CEbu6PXlAqx/

----------


## gohei_

Just finished reading Red Hood The Lost Days. During the first two issues I did not see the point of this miniseries, but then it got a bit interesting to see him take on new teachers while also ridding the earth of criminals. All in all, I guess it was all right.

----------


## Sergard

I found this on Twitter. It's from the DCeased: Unkillables trade.

----------


## Sergard

> I knew I liked the guy.


There is more fanart of John Boyega as Red Hood.

karlsteinn




acdra_art (see source for hooded version and more close-ups)

----------


## Zaresh

> There is more fanart of John Boyega as Red Hood.
> 
> karlsteinn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> acdra_art (see source for hooded version and more close-ups)


People sure are* fast, wow. Cool pieces.

----------


## Sergard

> People sure is fast, wow. Cool pieces.


Indeed they are fast xD


jaayy_birdd




_Gotham Knights_ fanarts are still coming too.

nockuth




huyandere

----------


## Sergard

Another RH:O #48 fanart.

sdimo





And a little off-topic: _DCeased: Hope At World's End_ #8 was released this week. It's drawn by Karl Mostert (the artist of _DCeased: Unkillables_). The story takes place after the events of _DCeased: Unkillables_ but before _DCeased: Dead Planet_. Jason isn't part of the story - but Ace is. It's a cute story. So maybe some people want to give it a try.

----------


## brenster21

> Funnily enough, the panel with Artemis on the bike reminds me of this scene from Red Hood and the Outlaws #25:
> 
> Attachment 100189
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am sort of expecting that Jason is going to be spiraling into depression here with bruce and barbara pushing him out of the investigation for killing the Joker, which is presumably going to blow up in everyone's face when jokers capture Jason to try and make him into the new Joker. You would think Bruce at some point would invest in a competent bat therapist that has no connection to Arkham Asylum. 

It would be rather nice if Jason and Artemis would continue to interact with each other after the current run of Red Hood and the outlaw's end, maybe with the outlaws appearing in wonder woman books. Though after reading most of dark knights metal and death metal I am really glad they never actually appeared with the exception of the villain of the year.

----------


## Jackalope89

No lie, but Diana's face in that image is a bit creepy.

But yeah, the Outlaws need to stay in contact, period.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Considering how unlike the OG Outlaws who were still used by other writers on whatever rare appearances they had outside RHATO still got split by editorial and only Lobdell ever acknowledged their past adventures, I'd say the odds of the Dark Trinity being acknowledged outside of RH (and even then I don't think we'll see them brought often) are very small.

----------


## Sergard

Is there more context to this (source) or did just someone write this post and call it a day?


DC Universe Jason Todd.jpg

----------


## Jackalope89

> Is there more context to this (source) or did just someone write this post and call it a day?
> 
> 
> DC Universe Jason Todd.jpg


Someone that clearly doesn't like nor understand the "bad" Robins.

----------


## Zaresh

> Considering how unlike the OG Outlaws who were still used by other writers on whatever rare appearances they had outside RHATO still got split by editorial and only Lobdell ever acknowledged their past adventures, I'd say the odds of the Dark Trinity being acknowledged outside of RH (and even then I don't think we'll see them brought often) are very small.


They mentioned Roy teaming with Jason in Green Arrow around when Roy died.
And then there's the Heroes in Crisis files.
It's not straight ignoring their shared past. Not at least for those two.
Can't same for Koriand'r I guess.

----------


## Zaresh

> Is there more context to this (source) or did just someone write this post and call it a day?
> 
> 
> DC Universe Jason Todd.jpg


Pointing and hating characters makes for a marvellous storm in Twitter, farming retweets and replies like nothing else.
I hate those moves, honestly.

Sorry for the double posting.

----------


## Drako

> Someone that clearly doesn't like nor understand the "bad" Robins.


Looks like this person doesn't understand any of them.

----------


## Zaresh

> Looks like this person doesn't understand any of them.


Ah, that too.
But still, I'm half convinced that this is just straight bait for social media attention.

------------

Edit: *Brief update.* This weekend, I've added 10 works to the list of fanfics. You can see which ones sorting the table by recording date.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Is there more context to this (source) or did just someone write this post and call it a day?
> 
> 
> Attachment 100232


Hmmm... I hope Twitter tear them a new one... they tear them apart when they tried to promote Damian feud with Bruce
(read the source)
Heh. Yes the do.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

https://www.cbr.com/red-hood-gotham-...ing-character/

Heh

----------


## AmiMizuno

What do you guys think Jason and Dick be more like brothers instead of arguing like they hate each other? I don't think they hate each other rather writers just want an antagonist like behavior. You can get that just not like how they have Jason.

----------


## Jackalope89

> What do you guys think Jason and Dick be more like brothers instead of arguing like they hate each other? I don't think they hate each other rather writers just want an antagonist like behavior. You can get that just not like how they have Jason.


In all honesty, they've never been all that close. Even before Jason's attempted character assassination before his death, they never really bonded like Dick did with Tim and Damian. Jason's death was the catalyst for Dick taking a more active role in helping the next Robins. 

Though in early Rebirth, at least, they did seem to be getting along better. Then Rebirth went through the tonal shift, and most things turned much darker again.

----------


## cc008

> What do you guys think Jason and Dick be more like brothers instead of arguing like they hate each other? I don't think they hate each other rather writers just want an antagonist like behavior. You can get that just not like how they have Jason.


I prefer them getting along. At least on a mutual respect level. They can still bicker at each other. They're brothers.

----------


## Sergard

> Hmmm... I hope Twitter tear them a new one... they tear them apart when they tried to promote Damian feud with Bruce
> (read the source)
> Heh. Yes the do.


My favorite three reactions:

by hyaena666:




by Watchtower Database:






and third but not least this one. It uses a panel from _Three Jokers_ #1, so spoilers ahead.

----------


## Zaresh

> My favorite three reactions:
> 
> by hyaena666:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by Watchtower Database:
> 
> ...


Those last two got a laugh out of me when I read them.

----------


## Sergard

> Those last two got a laugh out of me when I read them.


@Zaresh: Have you read _Three Jokers_ #1 by now?

----------


## Zaresh

> @Zaresh: Have you read _Three Jokers_ #1 by now?


Not yet, but I've been spoiler'd left and right. I'm actually thinking about waiting until the three issues are out, to be honest.

----------


## AmiMizuno

Has Jason ever been part of the Titans?




> I prefer them getting along. At least on a mutual respect level. They can still bicker at each other. They're brothers.


Yea agree. I think they are brothers who don't get along most of the time but when it comes now to it they care

----------


## Zaresh

> Has Jason ever been part of the Titans?


He has, sort of. He starred in... two issues?? In the same year they released Crisis in Infinite Earths, I think. Putting it in that weird time frame where it isn't old DCU, but it isn't post-Crisis either. Aahz, Serg, Restingvoice or Dark_T could know if I'm wrong or I'm remembering right this stuff.

Edit: exactly what TheCape said.

----------


## TheCape

> Has Jason ever been part of the Titans?
> 
> 
> 
> Yea agree. I think they are brothers who don't get along most of the time but when it comes now to it they care


Pre-Crisis Jason team up with then in an arc where Donna was the leader. Outside of that, not really.

----------


## Sergard

> Not yet, *but I've been spoiler'd left and right*. I'm actually thinking about waiting until the three issues are out, to be honest.


I'm sorry to hear that.  :Frown: 
It is hard to avoid spoilers when so many people are talking about that story all over social media right after release.
Although I personally think that _Three Jokers_ is a story that's probably better when read in one go.

----------


## Zaresh

> I'm sorry to hear that. 
> It is hard to avoid spoilers when so many people are talking about that story all over social media right after release.
> Although I personally think that _Three Jokers_ is a story that's probably better when read in one go.


Nah, don't worry. I don't mind spoilers, not with this one. I usually don't get bothered by them  :Cool: . Spoilers have helped me in choosing to wait.

----------


## Restingvoice

> What do you guys think Jason and Dick be more like brothers instead of arguing like they hate each other? I don't think they hate each other rather writers just want an antagonist like behavior. You can get that just not like how they have Jason.


I came in with them already allies, and I enjoy their brotherly moments, but there's an appeal in making Jason and Dick enemies with Dick inheriting Batman's morality and Jason keeping his ideal that relapsing hardcore criminals need to die to protect innocents, so I personally can go with either because I can enjoy both takes. 

DC doesn't seem to care which one they go and just follow the writers with how Red Hood Outlaw, Year of The Villains, LEGO DC Supervillains, LEGO Batman Family Matters, Arkham Knight, Gotham Knights, Titans Together, and TNBA can be published hand in hand (or at least in quick enough successions).

----------


## AmiMizuno

I mean we could have both. Frenemies. They will fight and argue but when it comes now to it they will help each other out.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

My ideal take would be for them to be cordial, respectful of each other's skills and willing to work together if needed but not really close and trying to avoid each other as much they could. Sort of like Goku and Vegeta during the Buu saga of DBZ, I guess.

----------


## Jackalope89

> My ideal take would be for them to be cordial, respectful of each other's skills and willing to work together if needed but not really close and trying to avoid each other as much they could. Sort of like Goku and Vegeta during the Buu saga of DBZ, I guess.


Except Vegeta _really_ wanted to test his fighting ability against Goku again. And though Goku would normally be happy to oblige, the circumstances delayed it and Vegeta ended up forcing Goku to fight him.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Oh hey, if any of you have $540 burning a hole on your pocket, BBTS has the Red Hood statue from XM studios available



https://www.bigbadtoystore.com/Produ...Details/131839

----------


## Jman27

> Except Vegeta _really_ wanted to test his fighting ability against Goku again. And though Goku would normally be happy to oblige, the circumstances delayed it and Vegeta ended up forcing Goku to fight him.


yeah this is it had the Buu stuff didnt happen Goku would gladly fight Vegeta that day although he probably will still withheld ssj3 even though the whole point of majin vegeta was so he can be even with ssj2 Goku

----------


## Sergard

Priscilla Petraites (uncolored scene from #Gotham Nights #11 "Reunion")

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Wow, this is scrapping the bottom of the barrel

https://www.cbr.com/red-hood-body-anatomy/

----------


## Sergard

This shirt is going places. (RH:O #48 fanart)

yuKi.





Fan-artists are still hyped for Gotham Knights.

remina




Youko

----------


## Sergard

Exclusive: New Details About Titans Season 3





> [...]After reading the article and realizing it talks about things that have not been revealed yet, I decided to contact a few sources about these new details. This is what I could find out:
> 
> This season was originally supposed to focus very little on Gotham, but this changed due to the coronavirus. COVID-19 pushed back production to Fall/Winter, which means it is hard to film a lot of scenes during the daytime without any rain or snow. Seeing as how Gotham is basically always supposed to be dark and cold, it was decided to focus more on Gotham than San Francisco. As you most likely already have realized, the aesthetic of San Francisco is going to be harder to replicate in the winter compared to the dark and rainy Gotham.
> 
> *Red Hood will be the main villain of the first half of the season*, with Blackfire being the main antagonist of the entire season and especially the second half. This is done similarly to how season 1 was written, with Blackfire having Trigons role (though Blackfire appears more in her season than Trigon did in season 1).
> 
> Scarecrow is very different from past versions of the character. I have been told that this version is, specifically, very different from Christopher Nolans Scarecrow, portrayed by Cillian Murphy. It has been suggested that the Titans version of the character is supposed to give off a Hannibal Lecter vibe. *A Red Hood suit has been made*, though Scarecrow does not have a suit yet. This makes sense, as he is supposed to be in GCPD custody as revealed by EntertainmentWeekly. Scarecrow has not been cast yet.



And another news that could have a big impact on the Titans series: Titans Star Alan Ritchson Cast as Jack Reacher in Amazon Series. (I wonder what this will mean for the character of Hank Hall aka Hawk.)

----------


## cc008

> Wow, this is scrapping the bottom of the barrel
> 
> https://www.cbr.com/red-hood-body-anatomy/


When 2020 offers literally nothing new.

----------


## Jackalope89

> When 2020 offers literally nothing new.


To be fair, a lot of the "new" of 2020 has been pretty awful.

----------


## Sergard

> Wow, this is scrapping the bottom of the barrel
> 
> https://www.cbr.com/red-hood-body-anatomy/


The editor is new. (Click on his name and you'll see that he's only written three articles so far.) The whole title "Gotham Anatomy: The 5 WEIRDEST Facts About Red Hood's Body" sounds very clickbait-y. I guess that's also the intention of the article. Which in itself is fine. News websites need to be clickbait-y. But the choice of topic is a little weird. Is "Gotham Anatomy" going to be a series and any character related to Gotham City will be examined for their 5 weirdest body features?

----------


## Aahz

https://quic.tumblr.com/

----------


## sifighter

Alright well here is some new information people may like, after Wally West’s bout today vs Archie Sonic (which I won’t spoil because it’s only available on Rooster Teeth not to the public on YouTube), it was revealed that Jason Todd is coming to Deathbattle for the second ever live-action fight where he will be up against the Winter Soldier.

2B2B8372-6B21-43E3-844C-EEC9BA5F5EEE.jpg

----------


## cc008

Two of my favorites! Love them both.

----------


## Sergard

Not connected to sifighter's post but a funny coincidence: Here's a Red Hood and Winter Soldier artwork by Vasco Georgiev (who's already drawn similar Marvel/DC Comics crossover artworks like this in the past with characters like Poison Ivy and Mystique, Harley Quinn and Deadpool, etc. - check out his Twitter page for more.)

According to this tweet, it was a "pretty tight race between Winter Soldier, the Punisher, Daredevil and *Scarlet Spider*". (*@Zaresh*  :Wink: )

----------


## Zaresh

> Not connected to sifighter's post but a funny coincidence: Here's a Red Hood and Winter Soldier artwork by Vasco Georgiev (who's already drawn similar Marvel/DC Comics crossover artworks like this in the past with characters like Poison Ivy and Mystique, Harley Quinn and Deadpool, etc. - check out his Twitter page for more.)
> 
> According to this tweet, it was a "pretty tight race between Winter Soldier, the Punisher, Daredevil and *Scarlet Spider*". (*@Zaresh* )


Tsk, tsk, a pity that it wasn't Kaine (I guess that SS was Kaine and not the original one, Ben). But it's just natural, I guess, that Buck was the chosen, for the sake of the joke there (you know, the one about two dead sidekicks who were expected to never come back).

Deadpool and Deathstroke would've been pretty funny, too.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Alright well here is some new information people may like, after Wally Wests bout today vs Archie Sonic (which I wont spoil because its only available on Rooster Teeth not to the public on YouTube), it was revealed that Jason Todd is coming to Deathbattle for the second ever live-action fight where he will be up against the Winter Soldier.
> 
> Attachment 100405


Honestly, haven't watched Death Battle in some time. So, even though Jason is my favorite, I may still not watch it. Let's just say when they do their "fact research", its often questionable.

----------


## Jman27

> Honestly, haven't watched Death Battle in some time. So, even though Jason is my favorite, I may still not watch it. Let's just say when they do their "fact research", its often questionable.


Their fights arent even that long anymore its like what 3 minutes now. I still watch them though

----------


## scilover

THE GRAPHIC IS SO NICE. The color, the atmosphere, the details. WOW

----------


## Sergard

It's nice that fan artists still post new _Gotham Knights_ fanart on social media...

nockuth





... and I found another fanart of John Boyega as Red Hood. And why not? The DC Universe is a multiverse. Any movie, TV series etc. is just another Earth. So a black Jason Todd/Red Hood isn't a big thing. 

Symeona

----------


## AtheistInRed

Jason Todd's actor getting ready to dawn The Hood In Red: https://www.instagram.com/p/CE2LmHXFnbE/

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> ... and I found another fanart of John Boyega as Red Hood. And why not? The DC Universe is a multiverse. Any movie, TV series etc. is just another Earth. So a black Jason Todd/Red Hood isn't a big thing.


I think he's a forgettable actor that doesn't fit the role, plus, I don't like him after what he did to Pacific Rim.

----------


## Zaresh

> I think he's a forgettable actor that doesn't fit the role, plus, I don't like him after what he did to Pacific Rim.


Attack the Block is a fun movie, if you want to try again. I think he's alright. 

Also, not exactly related, but I've heard PR2 is an awful movie overall.

----------


## cc008

> Jason Todd's actor getting ready to dawn The Hood In Red: https://www.instagram.com/p/CE2LmHXFnbE/


Hope he's hittin' the weights a little bit... and eating everything in sight too.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Yeah, he's way too small for Red Hood.

----------


## Sergard

Dexter Soy (from _Tales from the Dark Multiverse - Batman: Hush_)

_"tadaa! white streak"_

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I mean, this is one of the two possible instances in the main universe in which the streak should be used. That said, in that particular panel, it looks like a brush with fresh white paint was dropped on Jason's head though.

----------


## cc008

I just saw Soy's pinned tweet. He's almost synonymous with Red Hood to me at this point.. going to be sad if he's off the title when the Outlaws run is over.

BEAUTIFUL art though.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I just saw Soy's pinned tweet. He's almost synonymous with Red Hood to me at this point.. going to be sad if *he's off the title when the Outlaws run is over.*


Huh? He's been off the book since issue 25.

----------


## Sergard

Here's the final version of the Red Hood & Winter Soldier artwork by Vasco Georgiev.

_"Red Hood & Winter Soldier in Revenge of the fallen!"_






Here's a silly Jason Todd tweet by Dexter Soy.

Dexter Soy Twitter 08-09-2020.jpg

----------


## cc008

> Huh? He's been off the book since issue 25.


Womp womp. 

I'm catching up now (on 23) so i'll be disappointed even quicker!!

----------


## Sergard

I'd be down for this.

Symeona




John Boyega, by the way, has retweeted one of the fanarts showing him as Red Hood.

John Boyega Twitter 09-09-2020.jpg


And Judd Winick has retweeted John Boyega's retweet. This is so funny on so many levels.

Judd Winick Twitter 09-09-2020.jpg

----------


## Jackalope89

Get Jensen Ackles, John Boyega, and Curran Walters. That would be pretty interesting. Jensen as the older Jason, John as the Red Hood, and Curran as Robin.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Lobdell actually did consider a similar idea as his final arc but it never went past a mere concept.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Lobdell actually did consider a similar idea as his final arc but it never went past a mere concept.


Aw, that would have been fun!

----------


## Sergard

> Dexter Soy (from _Tales from the Dark Multiverse - Batman: Hush_)
> 
> _"tadaa! white streak"_


By the way, is it just me or does whatever he's wearing resemble Dexter Soy's Red Ronin design at least a little bit?







> Lobdell actually did consider a similar idea as his final arc but it never went past a mere concept.


Maybe some other writer will have the chance to write such a story in the future.
On the bright side, we have had a few "new" Jason Todds in the last months who now have the chance to appear/to be referenced in a future story. 
Jason Todd from _Batman: The Adventures Continue_ 
Jason Todd from the _Gotham Knights_ game
Jason Todd from _Unkillables_
Red Robin Jason Todd and Hush Jason Todd from the _Batman: Death in the Family_ short
Jason Todd from the upcoming _Tales from the Dark Multiverse - Batman: Hush_
Red Lantern Jason Todd from _Flash Forward_
Jason Todd from _Three Jokers_
honorable mentions: Jessy Todd by Otto Schmidt, Tokusatsu Red Hood by Dan Mora

----------


## Restingvoice

> Get Jensen Ackles, John Boyega, and Curran Walters. That would be pretty interesting. Jensen as the older Jason, John as the Red Hood, and Curran as Robin.


Ah. Crisis of Infinite Todds
...
InfiniTodds




> Lobdell actually did consider a similar idea as his final arc but it never went past a mere concept.


New 52 Superboy's final arc was kinda like that, but he also already off the title by then. He keeps missing these things

----------


## Sergard

Symeona has posted another Crisis with infinite Jasons artwork.





And of course, here's another John Boyega as Red Hood fanart. This time it's by Marrissa Leigh.



(It's a reference to RHatO (Rebirth) #7.)



There are currently also a few Red Riding Hood inspired fanarts popping up on social media thanks to Nightwing #74.

But this (artist: zynix) is the only one I could find that's not NSFW.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Newsarama says December solicits are dropping this week, so tomorrow we'll know if Martinbrough arc is filler or the end of the series.

----------


## Korath

Yikes.

Batman : The Adventure Continue isn't quite tender with our boy.

I don't mind too much because I feel the Earth-0 version is in a good place so far, and hopefully ten years won't be discarded so easily, but BTAC's Jason is very close to Morrison's insane Jason, it seems.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Yikes.
> 
> Batman : The Adventure Continue isn't quite tender with our boy.
> 
> I don't mind too much because I feel the Earth-0 version is in a good place so far, and hopefully ten years won't be discarded so easily, but BTAC's Jason is very close to Morrison's insane Jason, it seems.


*spoilers:*
And Bruce cared more saving Joker than he did about saving Jason.
*end of spoilers* After that, well, I normally would dismiss the once "out there" theory that Bruce loved Joker more than his own family, but now I have to seriously rethink that position because of this.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> RED HOOD #52
> 
> Written by SHAWN MARTINBROUGH
> 
> Art by TONY AKINS and STEFANO GAUDIANO
> 
> Cover by DAN MORA
> 
> Variant cover by SKAN
> ...


Cover picture is out but very small. Jason continues to truck on, I wonder if that childhood friend is Gabby.

----------


## Konja7

The solicitations doesn't mention this is the Final Issue.

However, there is a theory we will have a general relaunch in January. Death Metal will end on December (#6 and #7 will be released that month), while all Endless Winter event will happen on December.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Here's the cover



Reposting since is new page

RED HOOD #52

written by SHAWN MARTINBROUGH
art by TONY AKINS and STEFANO GAUDIANO
cover by DAN MORA
variant cover by SKAN
ON SALE 12/22/20
$3.99 US | 32 PAGES | FC | DC
After making his dramatic return to Gotham City, Jason Todd finds himself in the middle of a turf war between a violent gang aided by Killer Croc and a new group of vigilantes dedicated to protecting his old neighborhood of the Hill.
When a childhood friend is targeted for assassination by a vicious new crime lord on the rise, the Red Hood must forge an uneasy alliance with the vigilantes to save her.

And I was looking at the other solicits and the cover for *Death Metal: The Last 52: War of the Multiverses #1* has something really strange



Zombie Roy. Oh, and Jason is to Roy's left.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Here's the cover
> 
> 
> 
> Reposting since is new page
> 
> RED HOOD #52
> 
> written by SHAWN MARTINBROUGH
> ...


There it is. My guess was they used Killer Croc because he's black and this story is about a black neighborhood, and at first, because he used to be a mob boss in his first appearance, but then I asked if his birthplace in Gotham was ever mentioned, and people said no or don't remember, so I thought they're gonna make The Hill Croc's old place.

----------


## Aahz

> There it is. My guess was they used Killer Croc because he's black and this story is about a black neighborhood, and at first, because he used to be a mob boss in his first appearance, but then I asked if his birthplace in Gotham was ever mentioned, and people said no or don't remember, so I thought they're gonna make The Hill Croc's old place.


According to DC wikia he was born in Tampa, Florida.

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Waylon_Jones_(New_Earth)

----------


## Restingvoice

> According to DC wikia he was born in Tampa, Florida.
> 
> https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Waylon_Jones_(New_Earth)


...Of course, it's Florida

Found it. I just forgot which villain issue he was. Batman and Robin.  In the New 52, his childhood was in Crown Point, Gotham City, but he's got no daddy and momma. He's living with his auntie. So it's possible he moved there from Florida.

----------


## Sergard

Dexter Soy (probably from _Tales from the Dark Multiverse - Batman: Hush_)




Nick Robles (The scar on the face is a reference to Jason in the _Gotham Knights_ game. The autopsy scar is a  headcanon of some fans.)

_"Morning Jason"_

----------


## Jackalope89

Main issue with the autopsy scar, is that it would most likely be healed by the Lazurus Pit after he was tossed in.

----------


## redmax99

> Main issue with the autopsy scar, is that it would most likely be healed by the Lazurus Pit after he was tossed in.


that's not even main issue they didn't even do an autopsy because of the damage to his body.

----------


## Sergard

There wouldn't even be a need for an autopsy.




> An autopsy (post-mortem examination, obduction, necropsy, or autopsia cadaverum) is a surgical procedure that consists of a thorough examination of a corpse by dissection to *determine the cause, mode, and manner of death* or to evaluate any disease or injury that may be present for research or educational purposes.


Jason was tortured by Joker and died in an explosion. There aren't any questions that aren't already answered.

Furthermore, some rips and organs are removed during an autopsy. What happened to those parts?

For main-continuity Jason it makes no sense to have an autopsy scar. In a different universe, writers surely could make up a plausible reason why Jason has one.

----------


## Zaresh

> Main issue with the autopsy scar, is that it would most likely be healed by the Lazurus Pit after he was tossed in.





> There wouldn't even be a need for an autopsy.
> Jason was tortured by Joker and died in an explosion. There aren't any questions that aren't already answered.
> 
> Furthermore, some rips and organs are removed during an autopsy. What happened to those parts?
> 
> For main-continuity Jason it makes no sense to have an autopsy scar. In a different universe, writers surely could make up a plausible reason why Jason has one.



As someone else posted in Reddit, a scar of that kind implies a series of procedures has been made to the body, and sure as hell Jason wouldn't be fine afterwards.

As cool and fashionable as the scar may look for some, it's kind of, meh, not realistic, or... something like that. Belieavable, maybe. Doesn't follo0w a fine logic in and out universe.

That being said, that fanart is honestly good, so, well, whatever  :Cool:

----------


## Frontier

> There it is. *My guess was they used Killer Croc because he's black* and this story is about a black neighborhood, and at first, because he used to be a mob boss in his first appearance, but then I asked if his birthplace in Gotham was ever mentioned, and people said no or don't remember, so I thought they're gonna make The Hill Croc's old place.


That was true in the _Joker_ graphic novel and in _Suicide Squad_ but I don't think that's ever really been confirmed in the comics.

----------


## Restingvoice

> That was true in the _Joker_ graphic novel and in _Suicide Squad_ but I don't think that's ever really been confirmed in the comics.


He's black in Batman and Robin #23.4 Killer Croc #1 Villains Mont... who approved this titling?
I don't know if it's been revealed in other comics before New 52

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

https://www.dcfandome.com/video/insi...87080017244aba

Short documentary about the poll for the original story and the Titans show. For the most part, is just a rehash of what we've seen on the extras for Under the Red Hood but there's an interesting tidbit from Titans EP who says that Jason in the show is basically, Geof Johns' take on him. So you can sort of get an idea of how Geoff sees Jason as a character, And is not a flattering view. Besides that, O'Neil and Didio (yes it was recorded before everything went down) double down on the idea that Jason failed as a Robin and that was the reason he had to die. And I hate that posture. Jason was a fine Robin until writers decided he wasn't. Another thing it bothered me was the way half of the video was about DC justifying the reason to kill Jason and why they think people voted for him to die back then. But when they brought the recent poll for the show, they simply forego a similar deep analysis on why the fans voted now for him to live. Besides a passing mention that people probably felt responsible for wanting him to die in the past. Something that makes no sense since these are different audiences altogether. 

If this is really how DC sees Jason, then is disappointing that they haven't changed their minds in 15 years.

----------


## RedBird

> If this is really how DC sees Jason, then is disappointing that they haven't changed their minds in 15 years.


Yeah, pretty disappointing.

Maybe if DC ever decided to actually print it one day, I could actually point people to an omnibus copy of Jasons robin days and say please read this first before talking about it, thanks.

----------


## Aahz

> Maybe if DC ever decided to actually print it one day, I could actually point people to an omnibus copy of Jasons robin days and say please read this first before talking about it, thanks.


I think the "Batman: Second Chances" TDB covers the most important parts before Jason went dark.

To cover everything from the original run you also need (I think) "Batman: The Caped Crusader Vol.1" , "Batman:The Dark Knight Detective Vol.1", "Batman: The Cult" and "Death in the Family".

----------


## Sergard

I like Bryan Hill in the interview. (Although, like Dark, I disagree with his statement that voters felt responsible for Jason's death. All death-voters I've seen so far on social media are even proud of their vote.) But all in all, there wasn't any new information or aspect shared.

----------


## RedBird

> I think the "Batman: Second Chances" TDB covers the most important parts before Jason went dark.
> 
> To cover everything from the original run you also need (I think) "Batman: The Caped Crusader Vol.1" , "Batman:The Dark Knight Detective Vol.1", "Batman: The Cult" and "Death in the Family".


Good selections, but there's still a chunk of his pre crisis days that's still missing unfortunately.

----------


## Sergard

There isn't any new information given in the Three Jokers Panel. The panel shows pages from _Three Jokers_ #1 - so spoilers ahead. If people, who haven't read the issue yet, still want to hear the interview, they can still listen to it without looking on the screen because the interview itself with Geoff and Fabok doesn't contain spoilers. John Geoff clarifies again though who of the characters has healed right and who has healed wrong. *spoilers:*
Barbara has healed right, Jason has healed wrong. No surprises here.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Trt-R5

Apparently, there wont be a relaunch in january according to Jim Lee. Read in a comic news site that he said no relaunch and no 5G. Supposedly, their aim for 2021 is to write character driven stories without the need for everything to be part of some big crossover story

----------


## Restingvoice

> Apparently, there wont be a relaunch in january according to Jim Lee. Read in a comic news site that he said no relaunch and no 5G. Supposedly, their aim for 2021 is to write character driven stories without the need for everything to be part of some big crossover story


Didio and Harras are the shared universe guy and they're gone, Snyder makes events but he usually gives options if the others wanna join or not, it's usually editorial that enforce it, and if Team Snyder consisting of Snyder, Williamson, Tynion, Seeley, Orlando, Tomasi and King make a crossover together it's because they want to do it together. I don't know about Bendis and Johns plus Morrison are in their own universe, so I guess it's possible...

----------


## Sergard

> Apparently, there wont be a relaunch in january according to Jim Lee. Read in a comic news site that he said no relaunch and no 5G. Supposedly, *their aim for 2021 is to write character driven stories without the need for everything to be part of some big crossover story*


That's great news. Hopefully they'll stick to this plan. No more crossovers and tie-ins please.


The DC Showcase Collection - Batman: Death in the Family - Panel is pretty fun. They show a clip from the Hush Jason route and one from the Red Robin Jason route where Jason fights Two-Face. They also show a screenshot of Talia Al Ghul.




> Learn the fascinating details behind Warner Bros. Home Entertainment’s first-ever interactive film presentation during the DC Showcase – Batman: Death in the Family panel. As the anchor of an anthology of 2019–2020 animated shorts, Batman: A Death in the Family is based on the 1988 landmark DC event where fans voted by telephone to determine the story’s ending, and is organically grown out of the 2010 DC Universe Movie Batman: Under the Red Hood. In this new version, the animated short is an interactive storytelling presentation with numerous “branches,” allowing the viewer multiple options from which to choose and alter the path of the core characters (Batman, Robin, Joker, Red Hood and more). Join Brandon Vietti (Batman: Under the Red Hood) with actors Vincent Martella (Phineas and Ferb) and John DiMaggio (Adventure Time) for an in-depth panel discussion moderated by DC Daily’s Hector Navarro about this innovative film. Produced by Warner Bros. Animation and DC, DC Showcase – Batman: Death in the Family arrives from Warner Bros. Home Entertainment on Blu-rayTM Combo Pack and Digital in fall 2020. 30 min

----------


## Zaresh

> Apparently, there wont be a relaunch in january according to Jim Lee. Read in a comic news site that he said no relaunch and no 5G. Supposedly, their aim for 2021 is to write character driven stories without the need for everything to be part of some big crossover story


Finally! Someone stuck some common sense into their heads. Miracle of miracles.

----------


## Zaresh

> That's great news. Hopefully they'll stick to this plan. No more crossovers and tie-ins please.
> 
> 
> The DC Showcase Collection - Batman: Death in the Family - Panel is pretty fun. They show a clip from the Hush Jason route and one from the Red Robin Jason route where Jason fights Two-Face. They also show a screenshot of Talia Al Ghul.


The little bits of the new storylines that they show, they look really, realñy goos for a "small" product like this. I was expecting it to look worse, to be honest. And the old stuff still looks great.

Geez, DiMaggio seems like such a huggable, great guy. Love him. I don't think I can see Bender the same way anymore now. Also, I think I liked the point of view of Vietti about the horror feel it all could have, and about letting Jason survive the experience not being the compassionate option, not realistically. Of course, comics being comics, he wouldn't go through the post-experience as he would, and he could be perfectly fine, no trauma withstanding within a year. Just like Bruce, Dick, Tim or any other (but Barbara, because because). Compassionate would have been not putting him in that situation at all.

----------


## skyvolt2000

> That's great news. Hopefully they'll stick to this plan. No more crossovers and tie-ins please..


Part of the reason you saw all that was because stores had ZERO issues ordering those books no matter who the title was.

In some cases those crossover and tie in was the only some books even sniff a store shelf.


They say that but let sales stink and hello hostage events and tie ins.

----------


## Sergard

Shawn Martinbrough

Shawn Martinbrough Twitter Red Hood 51 52.jpg

Currently, I guess that the new characters on the cover of Red Hood #51 are part of the "violent gang aided by Killer Croc", the unmasked woman on the Red Hood #52 cover is Jason's childhood friend and the other two are the vigilantes "Red Hood must forge an uneasy alliance with".

Side note: DC has added _Batman: The Hill_ on readDC.com.

Theoretically, the childhood friend could still be Gabby Christensen from _Red Hood/Arsenal_. It would be nice to see her again. But I wouldn't hold my breath.

----------


## Sergard

First Look - Red Hood - Rebirth by XM - Prototype Sample

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Looks really nice. Kind of a missed chance that doesn't include a helmetless head tho.

----------


## Sergard

A while ago we had a discussion about Jason and bikes. I think this fanart is a cool addition.

Yen

_"Jason and an akira inspired bike"_





This John Boyega as Jason Todd combined with Lost Days fanart is also nice.

Symeona




And of course, the hype for the Gotham Knights game is still strong.

Mashal

----------


## Sergard

Red Hood #51 variant cover by Kael Ngu

----------


## Restingvoice

> Red Hood #51 variant cover by Kael Ngu


Cool
Is that canvas pants

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I was hoping this new era for Jason meant ditching the MK cosplay. I hate it.

----------


## Korath

Just so you know, Jason had a bad-ass scene in today's Teen Titans

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

The Bendis story in Detective Comics #1027 uses the good Red Hood costume, thank God.

----------


## Arsenal

I mean, technically, if all those windows really were full of people with guns I’d imagine it’d be even more effective with all of them opposed to just one.

----------


## Zaresh

> I mean, technically, if all those windows really were full of people with guns I’d imagine it’d be even more effective with all of them opposed to just one.


Bendis writing a murder mystery, eh... not his strongest point. But you guys probably know that already. And this one was very much a murder mystery story.

I ended up reading the issue. By far, my fave was Fractions/Zdarsky. And then the last one by* Mariko? Rumiko? I can't remember her name, sorry. It was a very nice read, with honestly gorgeous art. Dan Mora (I think) in the pencils, and Tamra Bonvillain (I think was the name) doing some honest beautiful colours.

And the one by* Rucka (was it Rucka? I think it was) wasn't bad either. It wasn't my cup of tea exactly, but it was good. And oh, the art by* Eduardo Risso (I mean, I remember the artist, but I'm not sure Rucka was the writer), that spoiled me. I was probanly looking more at the art than the letters, to be honest. 

God, I suck at remembering names.

----------


## Frontier

> Bendis writing a murder mystery, eh... not his strongest point. But you guys probably know that already. And this one was very much a murder mystery story.
> 
> I ended up reading the issue. By far, my fave was Fractions/Zdarsky. And then the last one from Mariko? Rumiko? I can't remember her name, sorry. It was a very nice read, with honestly gorgeous art. Dan Mora (I think) in the pencils, and some Tamra Bonvillain (I think was the name) doing some honest beautiful colours.
> 
> And the one from Rucka (was it Rucka? I think it was) wasn't bad either. It wasn't my cup of tea exactly, but it was good. And oh, the art from Eduardo Risso (I mean, I remember the artist, but I'm not sure Rucka was the writer), that spoiled me. I was probanly looking more at the art than the letters, to be honest. 
> 
> God, I suck at remembering names.


Mariko Tomaki  :Smile: .

If you're talking about the rookie story, that was Rucka.

----------


## Zaresh

> Mariko Tomaki .
> 
> If you're talking about the rookie story, that was Rucka.


Yep, that one.

----------


## Sergard

> Just so you know, Jason had a bad-ass scene in today's Teen Titans


Do you mean this one? I'm not up to date. What's the current story about?






> The Bendis story in Detective Comics #1027 uses the good Red Hood costume, thank God.


Sadly, it's the bad Batgirl "mask" with the giant holes.



People on Twitter have a good sense of humor.

Twitter DC #1027 funny comment.jpg

(source)


Twitter DC #1027 funny comment 2.jpg

(source)

----------


## Sergard

Vincenzo Viska Federici

_"RED HOOD AND THE OUTLAWS!
A couple of months ago I did these test pages for @DCComics, really enjoyed it!
Hope you'll do the same."_

----------


## sifighter

> Do you mean this one? I'm not up to date. What's the current story about?


Current story of teen titans is basically Damian has supposedly started killing villains now (there’s a lot more to it but that’s the short version) and has quit being Robin as well as leave the titans. Presently the Batfamily is looking for him and Jason is telling the remaining Titans to stay out of it even though Damian is supposedly leaving behind clues for them.

----------


## Sergard

> Current story of teen titans is basically Damian has supposedly started killing villains now (there’s a lot more to it but that’s the short version) and has quit being Robin as well as leave the titans. Presently the *Batfamily* is looking for him and Jason is telling the remaining Titans to stay out of it even though Damian is supposedly leaving behind clues for them.


Lot of batfamily this week. I think Batman #99 has the most members present.


DEATH BATTLE!

_"Winter Soldier VS Red Hood premieres FIRST this Sunday!!

The super talented actor & stuntman @TheRealTimNeff takes up the Red Hood for this brutal #DeathBattle by @Ismahawk. Catch a look at this former Robin's arsenal in today's early preview:[...]"_

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Vincenzo Viska Federici
> 
> _"RED HOOD AND THE OUTLAWS!
> A couple of months ago I did these test pages for @DCComics, really enjoyed it!
> Hope you'll do the same."_


Interesting, test pages normally use scripts of already published issues but there's no issue in which a similar scene happens. I wonder if is from an scrapped script of Lobdell.

----------


## Katana500

> The Bendis story in Detective Comics #1027 uses the good Red Hood costume, thank God.


I really enjoyed this wee story! I always love seeing the family interacting and friendly bickering.

----------


## Sergard

This is cute.  :Smile: 

source: Twitter




And this is just funny xD

Symeona

_"Jason in Gotham Knights...... That's it, thank you."_

----------


## Celgress

> Lot of batfamily this week. I think Batman #99 has the most members present.
> 
> 
> DEATH BATTLE!
> 
> _"Winter Soldier VS Red Hood premieres FIRST this Sunday!!
> 
> The super talented actor & stuntman @TheRealTimNeff takes up the Red Hood for this brutal #DeathBattle by @Ismahawk. Catch a look at this former Robin's arsenal in today's early preview:[...]"_


Oh, I love it, photo-realistic. The pic reminds me of a scene from a major motion picture or big budget video game, well done.  :Cool:

----------


## Sergard

> Oh, I love it, *photo-realistic*. The pic reminds me of a scene from a major motion picture or big budget video game, well done.


It's a photo  :Wink:

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Everytime I see people complaint that Jason shouldn't have adventures in the space or against magical beings, because "he's a street level character" I can't help but wonder why those same people never have an issue with Batman or any of Jason's brothers doing the same.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Everytime I see people complaint that Jason shouldn't have adventures in the space or against magical beings, because "he's a street level character" I can't help but wonder why those same people never have an issue with Batman or any of Jason's brothers doing the same.


Hmm... personal preference based on perceived image and because they don't care about the other characters
Kinda like a Batman fan who likes things realistic and don't involve the Batfam or Justice League

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Fair enough, but those people not only are in the minority, they don't throw a fit every time Batman has unrealistic situations happen on his own book (that thanks to Snyder and King are the bulk of his stories) whereas people keep harping on about how Jason should never be anything but a Punisher ripoff.

Also, having Jason travel all over the world, to space or to mystical dimensions gives him a niche of his own that lets him stand apart instead of just keep clogging Gotham with street-level vigilantes.

----------


## Arsenal

Of all the batfam, Jason is the one who should be going on those type of stories more often. It’s not like he has any real compelling reason to permanently reside there anyway.

----------


## redmax99

> Fair enough, but those people not only are in the minority, they don't throw a fit every time Batman has unrealistic situations happen on his own book (that thanks to Snyder and King are the bulk of his stories) whereas people keep harping on about how Jason should never be anything but a Punisher ripoff.
> 
> Also, having Jason travel all over the world, to space or to mystical dimensions gives him a niche of his own that lets him stand apart instead of just keep clogging Gotham with street-level vigilantes.


1.you have to remember one very important thing people hate the writer and whatever he write doesn't fly with most readers. 

2. they do it to mostly all the batfamily saying they should be street and not interact with most of the dc because the bats is mostly realism. DC put freddy on the titans because they wanted tim to stay more grounded in the 90's.

----------


## Celgress

> It's a photo


Ah, I see.  :Big Grin:

----------


## sifighter

> Everytime I see people complaint that Jason shouldn't have adventures in the space or against magical beings, because "he's a street level character" I can't help but wonder why those same people never have an issue with Batman or any of Jason's brothers doing the same.


Hasn’t a good majority of his new 52 and rebirth runs dealt with more fantastical elements? 

-Spaceship adventures with Starfire
-A magic organization that trained him
-A Superman clone
-An Amazon
-Alternate dimensions and time travel
-A school for villains 

Those are the ones right off the top my head.

----------


## cc008

> Hasn’t a good majority of his new 52 and rebirth runs dealt with more fantastical elements? 
> 
> -Spaceship adventures with Starfire
> *-A magic organization that trained him*
> -A Superman clone
> -An Amazon
> -Alternate dimensions and time travel
> -A school for villains



Feel like this is the BIG one that really allows him to venture into the supernatural probably moreso than his brothers.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Hasn’t a good majority of his new 52 and rebirth runs dealt with more fantastical elements? 
> 
> -Spaceship adventures with Starfire
> -A magic organization that trained him
> -A Superman clone
> -An Amazon
> -Alternate dimensions and time travel
> -A school for villains 
> 
> Those are the ones right off the top my head.


Pre-New52, he also went on a multiverse hopping adventure with Donna Troy and Kyler Rayner, guided by Bob the Monitor and briefly joined by the Jokester.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Fair enough, but those people not only are in the minority, they don't throw a fit every time Batman has unrealistic situations happen on his own book (that thanks to Snyder and King are the bulk of his stories) whereas people keep harping on about how Jason should never be anything but a Punisher ripoff.
> 
> Also, having Jason travel all over the world, to space, or to mystical dimensions gives him a niche of his own that lets him stand apart instead of just keep clogging Gotham with street-level vigilantes.


I mentioned it but didn't elaborate, a lot of people's first (and sometimes only) exposure to Red Hood is Under The Red Hood followed by Arkham Knight, and that defines Red Hood's character and tone to them, the vigilante who kills mobs and fight Batman for his ideals. Even in Gotham Knights fandom, you find people complaining about Jason using rubber bullets. 

Also considering that RHATO number is 25,000 or below, I'd say they're the majority 

Batman has been in the game for a long time, he established himself as a street-level detective first, but people also know him as a Justice League member. So by this point most people already expect him to do that. 

Red Hood doesn't have as much exposure, and I'm betting the complaints coming from people who hold Under The Red Hood as the only right way to do Jason.

----------


## Sergard

It seems like Dark and I frequent completely different places. I mainly encounter stuff like this:



(source)

Twitter: ash




Twitter: newbie_angkum

----------


## Zaresh

> Feel like this is the BIG one that really allows him to venture into the supernatural probably moreso than his brothers.


Being mysterously resurrected is also a point in the why yes, and The Cult is a story in his Robin time and also touches certain supernatural elements (kind of). And he's the Robin that famosuly saved Superman, too. Kind of counts for space, even if it's not as much as other Robins. Ah, and also, Countdown, I forgot that.

And again, it's a corner no other batfam member covers, the fantastic adventure corner, a classic genre in pulps. And there's a limit of street level stories that you can tell in a row without getting the audience tired of it. The Shadow had variety, Batman had variety, Moon Knight has variety. Even the opposite side, a fantastic adventurer, a mystic knight, like Iron Fist, has street level stories (and it's a big part of his catalogue). You need a range of different genres to move in between if you don't want the character to die soon, either because of burnt out or because you keep retelling the same storiss (originality isn't always a spare thing to come across)

In my opinion at least.

I wouldn't put Jason into an epic, not yet, not without reason. He works way better in small stories. But in mystic adventures? Or even magic, or supernatural... Sure.

That being said, DC, stop putting John Constantine in big epic stories within a badass magician role. He's a trickster, almost a con artist of the magic. He doesn't work that way. He's at best a guide, not a solver.

----------


## Aahz

I just read the last Nightwing issue, another entry in the long list of shitty appearances of Jason in Batfamily crossovers  :Mad:

----------


## the illustrious mr. kenway

I'm surprised they haven't had Jason hang out with Justice League Dark yet. He feels like a better fit for supernatural adventures because he actually resurrected. That feels like a good avenue to explore with him.

----------


## Restingvoice

> I'm surprised they haven't had Jason hang out with Justice League Dark yet. He feels like a better fit for supernatural adventures because he actually resurrected. That feels like a good avenue to explore with him.


He, Artemis, and Bizarro were in a... was it a crossover? I don't remember...  with the Trinity and the JLD's trinity, fighting Ra's, Lex and Circe

No... it's not a crossover, it's a Trinity story arc.

----------


## Zaresh

> He, Artemis, and Bizarro were in a... was it a crossover? I don't remember...  with the Trinity and the JLD's trinity, fighting Ra's, Lex and Circe
> 
> No... it's not a crossover, it's a Trinity story arc.


I read that story. They were there, but it was a pretty bad story, and besides not being very in character, the outlaws were... I don't know, more of an element there than actual co-protagonists. The actual ones who had a true part in the story were the actual Trinity and the JLD. Well, some of them were, at least.

----------


## Restingvoice

Hmm... I guess
tumblr_ousiky4STB1r1j2boo1_540.jpg

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Small preview of Death Battle.

I noticed having a vial of a glowing green liquid, my guess is Venom.

----------


## Sergard

Philip Tan

_"Issue 50 ends my run on variant #covers for #RedHood, #art by myself and #colors by Jay Ramos

Cannot be more appreciative of the opportunity/patience from #DC #comics and my awesome editor, @Eddy_Choi
 (Absolutely one of the best)"_






Vasco Georgiev

_"One happy family."_

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

https://www.instagram.com/p/CFUvV0OA...d=yhv293u5w1tl

----------


## Sergard

Vasco Georgiev (colored version)

_"The best trinity! Red Hood and the Outlaws!"_





Otto Schmidt

_"Jess. #earth11 #RedHood #dccomics"_

----------


## Zaresh

> https://www.instagram.com/p/CFUvV0OA...d=yhv293u5w1tl


This one looks great and I have to say, unusual, at least for me. A rare find, 0these kind of aesthetics in the superhero genre, I think. Kind of art nouveau, but also... Asiatic? Nice looking, to be honest.

Edit: too late. Edited because it's been already posted by @Serg  :Cool:  I'm so slow XD

----------


## Sergard

> This one looks great and I have to say, unusual, at least for me. A rare find, 0these kind of aesthetics in the superhero genre, I think. Kind of art nouveau, but also... Asiatic? Nice looking, to be honest.
> 
> Edit: too late. Edited because it's been already posted by @Serg  I'm so slow XD


The rose windows were the first thing I noticed. Rose windows are a particularly characteristic of Gothic architecture (although their origins are much earlier). There's also a #gothic-hashtag in the description of the original post on Instagram. Further, the rose windows look like halos in this artwork. I guess that's intentionally. The floral decoration could be art nouveau - or maybe some other style. Isn't that basically arabesque? I think there are many art styles that use that kind of floral decoration.

P.S., @Zaresh: You're welcome.  :Big Grin:

----------


## Zaresh

> The rose windows were the first thing I noticed. Rose windows are a particularly characteristic of Gothic architecture (although their origins are much earlier). There's also a #gothic-hashtag in the description of the original post on Instagram. Further, the rose windows look like halos in this artwork. I guess that's intentionally. The floral decoration could be art nouveau - or maybe some other style. *Isn't that basically arabesque?* I think there are many art styles that use that kind of floral decoration.
> 
> P.S., @Zaresh: You're welcome.


It does look like that. Mmm, Could be some neoclassical style look-alike. It would make sense for both the use of rose windows and arabesques in Gotham (and those are styles that I tend to mistake with art nouveau). But I'm not an art historian.

Hilarious that the English wiki entry for Rose Windows mentions my city following the part about the origin of said element. It seems that our oldest churches are relevant concerning the matter and I wasn't aware. Shame on me.

Edit: by the way, Batgirl looks as if she were sitting in a throne with arms made of apses. Smart.

----------


## Sergard

Here's a fanart of Stephen Oyoung (Jason's voice in the Gotham Knights game) as Jason Todd/Red Hood.

source: Nic




Regarding fan activity in form of fanart and what I've personally encountered on social media, Gotham Knights is very popular.

On the other hand, Three Jokers fanart is very rare - which is kind of interesting. The title is very hyped but it seems like artists aren't really inspired by it. Although, all in all, Jason's costume in Three Jokers is positively received by the vast majority.

source: uth69



In the meanwhile, Jason's costume from the Red Hood: Outlaw #33 issue - suit and mask - is still very liked.

source: yuKi

----------


## Restingvoice

> https://www.instagram.com/p/CFUvV0OA...d=yhv293u5w1tl


That is so gaudy

----------


## Sergard

Vasco Georgiev

_"Id like to see @TomTaylorMade write Red Hood and the Outlaws one day. Im sure it would be a fantastic read! Dont you agree?"_

----------


## cc008

Yes I would love to see Taylor write a Red Hood title

----------


## Zaresh

> Yes I would love to see Taylor write a Red Hood title


Well, he has had the chance to write Jason twice already, and both times it felt like he didn't know what to do with him beyond a few interactions that did feel in character. I don't think he's that much interested in the Jason. He feels way more invested in Damian and, ironically, Dick (even when he has killed him twice). But more than those two, I think he likes Harley, Pamela and many other girls more. A Birds of prey book is more likely, imho. Hmmm, or a Teen Titans book.

----------


## Sergard

In the _Mostly DCeased_ Panel during the DC FanDome event, Tom Taylor said that his favorite character is Superman.
(Although I don't know if this also means that he'd like to write Superman.)

----------


## Zaresh

> In the _Mostly DCeased_ Panel during the DC FanDome event, Tom Taylor said that his favorite character is Superman.
> (Although I don't know if this also means that he'd like to write Superman.)


Somehow, that doesn't surprise me much.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Vasco Georgiev
> 
> _"Id like to see @TomTaylorMade write Red Hood and the Outlaws one day. Im sure it would be a fantastic read! Dont you agree?"_


Best Trinity. Need more of it.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Well, he has had the chance to write Jason twice already, and both times it felt like he didn't know what to do with him beyond a few interactions that did feel in character. I don't think he's that much interested in the Jason. He feels way more invested in Damian and, ironically, Dick (even when he has killed him twice). But more than those two, I think he likes Harley, Pamela and many other girls more. A Birds of prey book is more likely, imho. Hmmm, or a Teen Titans book.


Agreed, after Unkillables I don't think that Taylor would be a good fit for Jason.

----------


## Sergard

Arif Prianto

_"Can we get this rad bike in the upcoming game, please? Pages from RED HOOD OUTLAW 48 from @dccomics. Pencils by @brettbooth_comicart inks by @koimando colors by me with @ijur and @saktiisback."_




Arif Prianto

_"Jason giving everyone a quick nap. From RED HOOD OUTLAW 48. Lines by @brettbooth_comicart inks by @koimando colors by me with @ijur and @saktiisback"_




Paolo Pantalena

_"Red Hood 49
Red Hood+Red Hood
Outlaws+Outlaws
Me+@arifprianto_arf @dccomics"_

----------


## Celgress

> Best Trinity. Need more of it.


Same here, so sweet, in an odd-ball sort of way.  :Wink:

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

So about Death Battle

*spoilers:*
Jason lost, and was more or less one sided. Meh.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Jackalope89

> So about Death Battle
> 
> *spoilers:*
> Jason lost, and was more or less one sided. Meh.
> *end of spoilers*


Yeah, see, part of the reason why I stopped, is because the excuses they give for certain characters winning/losing, are hamfisted at best. So not watching it saves me from having to sit through it. Another reason is because of the insufferable fanboys in constant circle-jerks about the battle.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

From Peter V Nguyen

https://twitter.com/petervnguyen/sta...49856135323648

I have no idea what is going on with Jason's face

----------


## Zaresh

> From Peter V Nguyen
> 
> https://twitter.com/petervnguyen/sta...49856135323648
> 
> I have no idea what is going on with Jason's face


Broken helmet, I guess. Or some kind of sci fi cyberhelmet with smart liquid metal? I don't know. But he wears a mask under his mask. So it doesn't matter  :Cool:

----------


## Sergard

> Broken helmet, I guess. *Or some kind of sci fi cyberhelmet with smart liquid metal?* I don't know. But he wears a mask under his mask. So it doesn't matter


This would be cool.


Maybe off-topic but according to Ben Abernathy, the Batman group editor, there's cool stuff coming.

_"Working on a Sunday morning to prepare for a meeting in 90 minutes...SO much cool stuff coming!"_

He doesn't specify anything though. So maybe Jason isn't part of the cool stuff coming.

----------


## Sergard

Brett Booth



(I think that's a commission.)

----------


## RedBird

> This would be cool.
> 
> 
> Maybe off-topic but according to Ben Abernathy, the Batman group editor, there's cool stuff coming.
> 
> _"Working on a Sunday morning to prepare for a meeting in 90 minutes...SO much cool stuff coming!"_
> 
> He doesn't specify anything though. So maybe Jason isn't part of the cool stuff coming.


Probably not, going by the replies it may be more Dceased stuff. 
I'm still wondering whether or not Jason will even have a book going forward, let alone being featured in any extra stuff. Issue #52 not being labelled as the end of the series is still kind of baffling.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Broken helmet, I guess. Or some kind of sci fi cyberhelmet with smart liquid metal? I don't know. But he wears a mask under his mask. So it doesn't matter


It looks like a new design based on a mix of Arkham Knight helmet base and his domino mask

----------


## Sergard

> Probably not, going by the replies it may be more Dceased stuff. 
> I'm still wondering whether or not Jason will even have a book going forward, let alone being featured in any extra stuff. Issue #52 not being labelled as the end of the series is still kind of baffling.


Yeah, I've seen Tom Taylor in the comments. So more DCeased seems a given.
I've also seen a thumbs-up-comment by Travis Mercer. He was, together with Paolo Pantalena, a penciller on Red Hood: Outlaw #46. As far as I remember, this was his first official work for DC. So maybe Mercer is part of a new project.

Vincenzo Viska Federici, who did some test pages for Red Hood and the Outlaws, liked the post. I'm not sure if this means anything. Especially because the artist revealed yesterday that he also did test pages for Batman Beyond.

----------


## Sergard

source: Twitter

back cover art to the forthcoming Blu-ray release of "Batman: Death in the Family"

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

And here's the video. 

The reasoning for Bucky winning is kind of lame and they did minimize some of Jason's feats while also ignoring pretty much everything he has achieved during the Dark Trinity era. I will say this though, I was pleasantly surprised that they did count his All Caste Training and respected the way th eAll Blades work (although this might be just to justify Bucky's win). Strangely, despite a good research, they decided that Jason using venom was something he does regularly when he only used it twice.

----------


## Sergard

source: P.W on Instagram



The design with the mesh for the lower face looks interesting. This could have been a better alternative for the New52 mouth helmet.



And this here is just a cute Dark Trinity fanart I found and wanted to share.

source: yuKi



I know, we still have two issues left with Jason, Bizarro and Artemis - but I already miss them.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> source: P.W on Instagram
> 
> 
> 
> The design with the mesh for the lower face looks interesting. This could have been a better alternative for the New52 mouth helmet.


I'm not a fan of the Handsome Squidward helmet but at least was distinctive on his own, this just looks like a bad Star Wars design.

----------


## lemonpeace

> And here's the video. 
> 
> The reasoning for Bucky winning is kind of lame and they did minimize some of Jason's feats while also ignoring pretty much everything he has achieved during the Dark Trinity era. I will say this though, I was pleasantly surprised that they did count his All Caste Training and respected the way th eAll Blades work (although this might be just to justify Bucky's win). Strangely, despite a good research, they decided that Jason using venom was something he does regularly when he only used it twice.


yeah death battle's notoriously sloppy with there analysis, the fight scenes are usually dope tho, so I try to not sweat the results since their reasoning is always super hit or miss. I would say I don't know why they don't just go with votes, but I imagine the divisiveness fuels more views from outrage/guilt pleasure watches. They did Jason pretty good justice in the breakdown and I think their Jason pulls it off really well.

----------


## dietrich

Surprising Spoilers for 3 JOKERS #2 from Reddit

https://i.redd.it/8hr7l2csm7p51.png

----------


## lemonpeace

> Surprising Spoilers for 3 JOKERS #2 from Reddit
> 
> https://i.redd.it/8hr7l2csm7p51.png


oh god, can people just not help themselves? does Barbara need to passed around to every other male Bat-character? Dick, Bruce, Luke, and now Jason? Steph needs to keep Tim on short lease, he might be next!

----------


## KrustyKid

> oh god, can people just not help themselves? does Barbara need to passed around to every other male Bat-character? Dick, Bruce, Luke, and now Jason? *Steph needs to keep Tim on short lease, he might be next*!


Lol, that might not be a bad idea. Damian should look out as well when he comes of age

----------


## Restingvoice

I'm covering one part of that image and just keep towel Jason. That is the hottest Jason I've ever seen.

----------


## Badou

> oh god, can people just not help themselves? does Barbara need to passed around to every other male Bat-character? Dick, Bruce, Luke, and now Jason? Steph needs to keep Tim on short lease, he might be next!


They had Barbara marry Tim in the Arkham game universe, right? I bet it is only a matter of time until it is Damian's turn with how they keep aging Damian up and aging Barbara down, lol.

----------


## lemonpeace

> They had Barbara marry Tim in the Arkham game universe, right? I bet it is only a matter of time until it is Damian's turn with how they keep aging Damian up and aging Barbara down, lol.


she got Tim to!? Duke is about 18, that's legal, he might be next before she starts in on Damian  :Stick Out Tongue:  she's just bidding her time, collecting Batboys like infinity stones at this point lol

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Surprising Spoilers for 3 JOKERS #2 from Reddit
> 
> https://i.redd.it/8hr7l2csm7p51.png


Is really that surprising? Rich called it months ago.

Edit:

Spoilers for issue 2 are also out in 4chan and since they were right last month, I'm inclined to believe them. Doesn't seem like a particularly exciting or interesting issue.

----------


## dietrich

> Is really that surprising? Rich called it months ago.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Spoilers for issue 2 are also out in 4chan and since they were right last month, I'm inclined to believe them. Doesn't seem like a particularly exciting or interesting issue.


Must have missed Rich breaking it so was pretty surprised and curious.

----------


## Sergard

I've already said it in the Three Jokers thread: This is not a romantic kiss that will result in a relationship but a comforting one that was born out of the moment. Judging by this panel, neither Barbara nor Jason are reduced as a character so that the other can benefit. That's not something I can say about certain other character constellations in DC comics.

And why exactly is Barbara "passed around"? In the meanwhile Dick Grayson had relationships with Barbara and Helena - who are both Birds of Prey members - and no one is complaining about that. I've even seen people calling Birds of Prey Dick's "harem" while celebrating Dick as a "Sexgod". Why are female characters shamed and male characters praised for the same thing?

And no, I don't ship Barbara and Jason. Neither do I ship Barbara with any member of the batfamily. Bruce, Dick, Jason, Tim - all of them aren't good choices.

----------


## Aahz

> In the meanwhile Dick Grayson had relationships with Barbara and Helena - who are both Birds of Prey members - and no one is complaining about that. I've even seen people calling Birds of Prey Dick's "harem" while celebrating Dick as a "Sexgod". Why are female characters shamed and male characters praised for the same thing?


Dick and Helena had only a one night stand, and Helena wasn't a member of the Birds of Prey when it happened.

----------


## Badou

> I've already said it in the Three Jokers thread: This is not a romantic kiss that will result in a relationship but a comforting one that was born out of the moment. Judging by this panel, neither Barbara nor Jason are reduced as a character so that the other can benefit. That's not something I can say about certain other character constellations in DC comics.
> 
> And why exactly is Barbara "passed around"? In the meanwhile Dick Grayson had relationships with Barbara and Helena - who are both Birds of Prey members - and no one is complaining about that. I've even seen people calling Birds of Prey Dick's "harem" while celebrating Dick as a "Sexgod". Why are female characters shamed and male characters praised for the same thing?
> 
> And no, I don't ship Barbara and Jason. Neither do I ship Barbara with any member of the batfamily. Bruce, Dick, Jason, Tim - all of them aren't good choices.


Seeley in that Batman Eternal issue already set up the two being romantically attracted to each other with Babs basically making a pass at him and Jason hesitantly turning her down. Now Johns here has the two make out when Jason is just wearing a towel. Sure, it was probably in the moment kind of thing, but it is now firmly established the two are very attracted to one another. This will continued to be explored in the future for sure even if this story isn't canon, but given its massive success I'd be surprised if it isn't in canon in some form.  

Like Aahz said, Dick and Helena hooked up before she was part of the BoP. That happened before the BoP book even came out. So that isn't a great example. Also I've never heard of anyone describing Birds of Prey as Dick's harem before. I mean Roy's hooked up with more members of the BoP than Dick has I believe. The problem with Barbara is how they just use her as the default love interest for the Batman family or extended family. It just comes across as kind of gross when you have her be with across different media Bruce, Dick, Jason, Tim, and Luke. Give her some romantic partners that are beyond this already. It would be like if Dick's only love interests were Barbara, Helena, Selina, Harley, Stephanie, and so on. It would be awful. 

But I'm not a fan of mixing up the love interests between characters that operate more like family. I'd never want to date my brother's ex-girlfriend or ex-wife. It just creates needless drama in my opinion, but I understand some people love that kind of drama in media/fiction. I mean I don't think Jason fans would like it if a writer thought having Artemis and Dick start a romance was a good idea. There are plenty of characters in DC where you don't need family members stepping on each others toes, imo.

----------


## Zaresh

> Surprising Spoilers for 3 JOKERS #2 from Reddit
> 
> https://i.redd.it/8hr7l2csm7p51.png


I knew it. 
Welp, seems like Johns was talking about Jason Todd in DDC after all.

----------


## Zaresh

> she got Tim to!? Duke is about 18, that's legal, he might be next before she starts in on Damian  she's just bidding her time, collecting Batboys like infinity stones at this point lol


Tim is meant to be Jason's age or even a bit older than him in the Arkhamverse as far as I recall.

Edit: Nevermid, I read it as Tim being 18. Speedreading is bad for your health xD

----------


## kaimaciel

> Surprising Spoilers for 3 JOKERS #2 from Reddit
> 
> https://i.redd.it/8hr7l2csm7p51.png


Honestly, I'm dreading the DickBabs shippers. It's gonna be the whole "Jason stole Dicks friends" debacle all over again with Barbara. And it's not like it's going to last.

----------


## Sergard

> Seeley in that Batman Eternal issue already set up the two being romantically attracted to each other with Babs basically making a pass at him and Jason hesitantly turning her down. Now Johns here has the two make out when Jason is just wearing a towel. Sure, it was probably in the moment kind of thing, but it is now firmly established the two are very attracted to one another. This will continued to be explored in the future for sure even if this story isn't canon, but given its massive success I'd be surprised if it isn't in canon in some form.


How about we wait until Three Jokers is finished to have a clear picture how the panel is meant? Batman Eternal was Seeley's thing and this here is Geoff Johns'. Seeley and Johns don't necessarily need to have the same idea. If writers would have really liked to explore Jason and Barbara, they would have done it by now - but so far Red Hood and Batgirl writers have stuck to other characters. It's very, very doubtful, that their perspective will change after reading Three Jokers, even if the title is a massive success.




> Like Aahz said, Dick and Helena hooked up before she was part of the BoP. That happened before the BoP book even came out. So that isn't a great example. Also I've never heard of anyone describing Birds of Prey as Dick's harem before. I mean Roy's hooked up with more members of the BoP than Dick has I believe. The problem with Barbara is how they just use her as the default love interest for the Batman family or extended family. It just comes across as kind of gross when you have her be with across different media Bruce, Dick, Jason, Tim, and Luke. Give her some romantic partners that are beyond this already. It would be like if Dick's only love interests were Barbara, Helena, Selina, Harley, Stephanie, and so on. It would be awful. 
> 
> But I'm not a fan of mixing up the love interests between characters that operate more like family. I'd never want to date my brother's ex-girlfriend or ex-wife. It just creates needless drama in my opinion, but I understand some people love that kind of drama in media/fiction. I mean I don't think Jason fans would like it if a writer thought having Artemis and Dick start a romance was a good idea. There are plenty of characters in DC where you don't need family members stepping on each others toes, imo.


I agree that it would be better for Barbara to date outside the batfamily. Neither Bruce, Dick, Jason, Tim or any other member of the batfamily is a good choice for her. But I disagree with the statement of Barbara being "passed around". She's not an object, especially not in Three Jokers. Jason Fabok has made it clear that Barbara is the heart of the story. She is as much a main character as Jason and Bruce if not even more. Neither Jason nor Barbara are reduced to the part of the love interest.

As already said, I don't like Jason and Barbara as a couple - but I also don't like Bruce, Dick, Tim, etc. But this has nothing to do with Barbara being Dick's or Luke's ex-girlfriend. I don't see the chemistry, that's the reason - and it's the same reason for Bruce, Dick, Tim, etc. The characters just don't match. But I can understand why Barbara and Jason have an emotional moment together in Three Jokers - which has nothing to do with physical attraction or romance.

And with all respect: I don't care if Dick Grayson fans want to complain that Jason takes away from Dick's history because this here has nothing to do with Dick (the writer isn't even really interested in Jason as a character but the overall topic of trauma), neither does it take anything away from Dick. God knows I'm tired of this fan hypocrisy. When Dick Grayson writers take away stuff from other characters' history so that Dick Grayson can benefit, it's completely okay - not a single Dick Grayson fan complains that some other character suffers because of this favoritism. But God forbid, other characters interact with people that Dick has met first. Dick Grayson was introduced in 1940!!! Of course he's met many people before Jason or other characters even existed. But that doesn't mean that all these people are Dick's property.

----------


## Konja7

> I've already said it in the Three Jokers thread: This is not a romantic kiss that will result in a relationship but a comforting one that was born out of the moment. Judging by this panel, neither Barbara nor Jason are reduced as a character so that the other can benefit. That's not something I can say about certain other character constellations in DC comics.
> 
> And why exactly is Barbara "passed around"? In the meanwhile Dick Grayson had relationships with Barbara and Helena - who are both Birds of Prey members - and no one is complaining about that. I've even seen people calling Birds of Prey Dick's "harem" while celebrating Dick as a "Sexgod". Why are female characters shamed and male characters praised for the same thing?
> 
> And no, I don't ship Barbara and Jason. Neither do I ship Barbara with any member of the batfamily. Bruce, Dick, Jason, Tim - all of them aren't good choices.


Although there is a issue of sexism from some fans for this topic (I just need to enter in 4chan to see that), I don't think this is the case for most people in this forum. 

I think Barbara "passed around" between Batfamily members is weird, because she is the default love interest of the Batfamily. I guess it is because she is the only really important female character in the Batfamily (for most writers), but it is still weird.

----------


## dietrich

> Honestly, I'm dreading the DickBabs shippers. It's gonna be the whole "Jason stole Dicks friends" debacle all over again with Barbara. And it's not like it's going to last.


IT be fair it's not like it's main continuity and like other's have said they've done it before with Tim and Bruce.

The only valid complaint is the issue of writers multi teasing Babs within the Batfam which lets face is as bad as what they do with Bruce's love Interests and his son's.

Or making Dick into a stripper or having Midnighter recognise him by his butt. Objectification it seems is equal opportunities for DC.

I personally was curious and I'm still gonna check the issue out.

----------


## RedBird

Welp.

If that panel is what I think it is. All I can say is, at least he's still not the worst 'Jason', that Babs has been with as of late. Jason Bard anyone? lol




> Judging by this panel, neither Barbara nor Jason are reduced as a character so that the other can benefit. That's not something I can say about certain other character constellations in DC comics.


Not all that fond of this ship for various reasons, and hard to judge from the panel, but yeah, I just hope after all that hype around Barbara and Jason in this book, that they don't reduce her role from here on, and visa versa, seems unlikely anyway given how short the series is and the fact that they are both central characters here. I'm just still worried about the whole Jason as the final Joker theory. Assuming this is real and confirmed, the thing everyone guessed would happen months ago, who knows what other 'obvious' things are bound to happen.

----------


## Korath

> I knew it. 
> Welp, seems like Johns was talking about Jason Todd in DDC after all.


Where ? I don't remember Jason being mentionned in DDC ?

----------


## Zaresh

> Where ? I don't remember Jason being mentionned in DDC ?


Didn't Bruce mentioned Babs being with some Jason in... issue 8 or 9, I think? Or maybe I'm mixing that book sith some other. But I think it was there.

----------


## Badou

> And with all respect: I don't care if Dick Grayson fans want to complain that Jason takes away from Dick's history because this here has nothing to do with Dick (the writer isn't even really interested in Jason as a character but the overall topic of trauma), neither does it take anything away from Dick. God knows I'm tired of this fan hypocrisy. When Dick Grayson writers take away stuff from other characters' history so that Dick Grayson can benefit, it's completely okay - not a single Dick Grayson fan complains that some other character suffers because of this favoritism. But God forbid, other characters interact with people that Dick has met first. Dick Grayson was introduced in 1940!!! Of course he's met many people before Jason or other characters even existed. But that doesn't mean that all these people are Dick's property.


No need to act so riled up about it. No one is claiming they are Dick's "property", but I don't think you can really argue that Dick didn't get his history stripped from him and that given to characters like Jason or Tim to fill out their character more. That is just the result of shrinking the DC timeline where DC wants to have these Robin characters fill some niche and characters like Dick who have been around since the 1940s will suffer from it. It's unavoidable. That doesn't mean they can't interact with other characters but you don't need to diminish one relationship in favor of another is my main point. A Jason/Babs romance damages the Dick/Babs romance because of Dick and Jason's relationship, same with Bruce/Babs, or having a Tim be the one that created the Teen Titans or deaging characters from Dick's generation to better fit in with Tim's gen undermines Dick's own past stories. Because of Dick's position of being around for so long he doesn't really "take" from other characters in that way unless you have a list of examples I don't know about.

That is the issue. Not that they are just interacting with each other. No one is complaining that a Starfire or Cyborg being off in space interacting with Azrael or a Jessica is undermining Dick's character. Because their history isn't being effected nor is their relationship being damaged from it. When a Starfire and Roy were given to Jason to be his "responsibility" after Dick abandoned them or whatever that is treating characters like property to be passed around. I wasn't a fan of it. Then you have a Artemis and Bizarro that don't have a connection with any Batman family members so it is a completely fresh set of relationships for Jason that doesn't hurt anyone. That is a great way to fill out a character more without lowering someone else, or pre-New 52 when Jason and Donna had their brief relationship/friendship that never felt like it undercut Dick's own friendship with Donna. There are ways to build up a character's connections and relationship without the need to damage those of other closely associated characters. 

Also you can call it hypocrisy, but you better be looking into a mirror too when you say that too. You would 100% be upset if Artemis was made into a romantic partner for Dick or if Dick became best friends with Bizarro. Same if Dick somehow was given the All Caste. You should be upset at those things because that isn't good writing. Though you seem to have issues with Dick as a character and his fans, so it would be best if I leave the discussion there probably.

----------


## Konja7

> Didn't Bruce mentioned Babs being with some Jason in... issue 8 or 9, I think? Or maybe I'm mixing that book sith some other. But I think it was there.


I think you mean a story in Detective Comics #1000. Yeah. Johns wrote that.

----------


## Zaresh

> I think you mean a story in Detective Comics #1000. Yeah. Johns wrote that.


Aaahh, right. It was tec. My mistake, sorry :_D

----------


## Badou

> I think you mean a story in Detective Comics #1000. Yeah. Johns wrote that.


I completely forgot about that. I remember people wondering if it was Jason Todd or Jason Bard because it was unclear, but maybe Johns was setting something up with Jason and Babs all the way back then.

----------


## Pohzee

Not to brigade here as a Dick fan, but I want to give my two cents:

I don't take issue with this issue because I think that Jason is "taking" from Dick. Nor do I think that Jason is really "earning" anything here. I would like to consider relationships to be meaningful interactions, not points to a characters sheet or whatever. And with their established histories, I think that Barbara/Jason is wrong a gross in a lot of ways.

The fact that Barbara already has previously been in a relationship with Dick, long and important enough to nearly lead to marriage, makes it a bit odd that she would hook up with Jason given the pseudo-brother dynamic that has developed around the Robins. There's nothing morally wrong with dating an ex's relative, but it is a bit odd. This is especially true given the age difference between Dick and Jason. I know current comics prefer to play Jason as closer to Dick in age but realistically it only makes sense that Jason was a child as Robin at the Barbara had been active for several years as Batgirl. And again there's nothing wrong with age gaps in relationships, so its a bit weird. 

I know that I would be very weirded out of someone I grew up with and was close with as a you adult ended up hooking up with my little brother who was a minor when we first met.

Obviously these are fictional characters, ideas and not real people, so real life doesn't necessarily apply to them. Things can be more flexible to serve a story. And maybe I'm just a prude. But I think it is weird and uncomfortable. Not as a Dick fan. I don't care that he's not with Barbara or that Jason is "taking her away." Just like I'm not upset when Barbara dates Jason Bard in her own comic. Or even Batwing really. I just think that is super weird and kinda creepy

----------


## Rac7d*

It’s not a dick babs thing, it’s a stop passing her around what is suppose to be a family kind of thing
It’s kind of gross

----------


## Restingvoice

Yeah you know that feeling when your ex go with your brother(s) or father instead? It's weird. 

Dick sleeps around, but outside the family. He doesn't date Steph or Cass in other media (mainly because they're not even available... who knows if they do maybe they will) and people do reject it when Dick is macking on Catwoman or eyeing Vicki Vale.

Luke and Helena are not close enough to be family so people are cooler with them about family issues. 

Their problem is racism.

----------


## WonderNight

I'm a dick fan and I don't have a problem with  jason and babs, but I will say that the whole "brothers" and "family" aspect of the Robin's is overrated in my opinion. 

Dick didn't grow up with Jason. They didn't meet until dick was already in adult and away from the batfamily with the titans, then jason dies 2 years after that. Dick and Jason can be cool at most but close loving brothers they are not.

----------


## AJpyro

> Surprising Spoilers for 3 JOKERS #2 from Reddit
> 
> https://i.redd.it/8hr7l2csm7p51.png


I dislike this with great intensity. Isabel, Artemis, Essence. Literally all are better than this.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

The issue about pairing Jason with Barbara is that is only a complete misread of both of their characters. It turns Barbara into a woman that keeps throwing herself at members of the Wayne family, and perpetuates the notion that Jason is just a poor man's Dick.

----------


## Drako

Look, we only have a panel to judge this at the moment. If the person who leaked this chose this single picture to put on the internet to shock the others, i tend to believe there isn't much more than this. 

I'll wait until the official release to make a judgment call.

----------


## Jackalope89

Panel got deleted before I could even see it.  :Frown:

----------


## Sergard

> Panel got deleted before I could even see it.


That Three Jokers Book 2 "Moment" Leaks on Reddit (Spoilers Update)

There's a link in the article.

----------


## RedBird

I've noticed Jason has red marks over his body, this is kind of leaning into what I thought would happen with issue 2, which was that Jason would stumble across another Joker, get beat, and that Babs would save him, I guess probably leading to this moment of him stripped down and Babs by his side? 

Also Babs eyes are open, implying perhaps surprise? I wonder if this is something Jason initiates with Babs pushing him away in the next scene. Considering it's the only leaked panel that seems pretty likely too.

----------


## Jackalope89

> That Three Jokers Book 2 "Moment" Leaks on Reddit (Spoilers Update)
> 
> There's a link in the article.


Yeah. And the reddit page had the user take down the image. So, still out of luck.

----------


## Konja7

> I've noticed Jason has red marks over his body, this is kind of leaning into what I thought would happen with issue 2, which was that Jason would stumble across another Joker, get beat, and that Babs would save him, I guess probably leading to this moment of him stripped down and Babs by his side? 
> 
> Also Babs eyes are open, implying perhaps surprise? I wonder if this is something Jason initiates with Babs pushing him away in the next scene. Considering it's the only leaked panel that seems pretty likely too.


Remember this is written for Johns. 

He has written an story in Detective Comics #1000 where it is mentioned that Barbara and Jason have children together. 

So, I don't think Barbara will be so repulsed for Jason's kiss.

----------


## Sergard

> Yeah. And the reddit page had the user take down the image. So, still out of luck.


Did you click on "UPDATE: And here's a better version of it."?

----------


## RedBird

> Remember this is written for Johns. 
> 
> He has written an story in Detective Comics #1000 where it is mentioned that Barbara and Jason have children together.


It's hard to say for sure when Babs has an actual romantic interest who is also named Jason. I always assumed that was Bard in that issue.

Seems more like Three Jokers will be the comic confirming whether or not it was Todd or Bard in Tec 1000, more so than the other way around.

----------


## Sergard

@Dark: Do you have more spoilers?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> @Dark: Do you have more spoilers?


Allegedly

*spoilers:*
Jason gets kidnapped by the two remaining Jokers and beat with a crowbar again. Babs and Bruce find him and return him to her apartment. Jason expresses his hatred at Bruce for leaving him in the ground. Babs explains that she wished she could've been there. They kiss, say it's a mistake. Also, Joe Chill is involved in the plot and had a specific reason to kill the Waynes, and the Jokers have kidnapped him.
*end of spoilers*

This sound like fanfiction but so was Doomsday Clock and the first issue of Three Jokers so I'm inclined to believe it.

----------


## Frontier

> Allegedly
> 
> *spoilers:*
> Jason gets kidnapped by the two remaining Jokers and beat with a crowbar again. Babs and Bruce find him and return him to her apartment. Jason expresses his hatred at Bruce for leaving him in the ground. Babs explains that she wished she could've been there. They kiss, say it's a mistake. Also, Joe Chill is involved in the plot and had a specific reason to kill the Waynes, and the Jokers have kidnapped him.
> *end of spoilers*
> 
> I've read fanfiction better written.


*spoilers:*
It always comes back to the crowbar...
*end of spoilers*

----------


## RedBird

Ha, pretty close.

----------


## Zaresh

> I've noticed Jason has red marks over his body, this is kind of leaning into what I thought would happen with issue 2, which was that Jason would stumble across another Joker, get beat, and that Babs would save him, I guess probably leading to this moment of him stripped down and Babs by his side? 
> 
> *Also Babs eyes are open, implying perhaps surprise? I wonder if this is something Jason initiates with Babs pushing him away in the next scene.* Considering it's the only leaked panel that seems pretty likely too.


But she's the one holding his hands, not the other way. Seems like an intimate moment going to certain places to me.

----------


## RedBird

> But she's the one holding his hands, not the other way. Seems like an intimate moment going to certain places to me.


I know, my assumption was still that she was already holding his hand and comforting him, when he initiates the kiss.

----------


## Zaresh

> I know, my assumption was still that she was already holding his hand and comforting him, when he initiates the kiss.


Hmmm... could be the case. But I don't think there would make much of a difference in the context. They didn't tease any of them liking the other in issue 1, did they?

----------


## RedBird

> Hmmm... could be the case. But I don't think there would make much of a difference in the context. They didn't tease any of them liking the other in issue 1, did they?


Nope, not that I recall. All the more reason for why my assumption was that it's a spur of the moment thing from Jasons end, due to Babs comforting him.

But anyway, all random speculations aside, I'm just curious to see if there is a story reason behind this moment.

----------


## Frontier

*spoilers:*
I'm just glad they don't sleep together. At least keep some dignity...
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Konja7

> *spoilers:*
> I'm just glad they don't sleep together. At least keep some dignity...
> *end of spoilers*


Are the spoilers confirmed? It is weird that the preview isn't mentioned on the spoilers.

----------


## Jackalope89

I'm gonna go with a spur of the moment/chaotic circumstances that led up to that.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Aaand the spoilers are legit

----------


## Restingvoice

> Aaand the spoilers are legit


It's the whole naked except towel thing, Babs. Understandable.

----------


## Drako

> Aaand the spoilers are legit


I told y'all.

----------


## dornwolf

> Aaand the spoilers are legit


It's like some weird self correcting paradox.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I told y'all.


That doesn't make it any better, and arguably, is actually worse.




> It's like some weird self correcting paradox.


Or more like Johns have absolutely zero idea of how to write these characters and is instead just using the laziest things possible to artificially create hype for his story with no regard to the characters' actual characterization.

----------


## Sergard

> Aaand the spoilers are legit


Well, this was an unnecessary discussion.
I hope whoever uploaded the first panel had a lot of fun reading all the reactions.


On a different note, Dexter Soy has posted a page from - what looks like - _Tales from the Dark Multiverse - Batman: Hush_.

----------


## dietrich

> Well, this was an unnecessary discussion.
> I hope whoever uploaded the first panel had a lot of fun reading all the reactions.


I did  :Cool:

----------


## Drako

> That doesn't make it any better, and arguably, is actually worse.


Why do you think it's worse?

----------


## Sergard

After Joker War: The Future of Batman and Gotham City in 2021




> [...]That finally changed in Batman #99, with Batman assembling every member of the Bat-family and vowing to undo the mistakes of the past. Whatever happens in Batman #100, Batman's victory will only come with a lot of help from Nightwing, Robin, Batgirl, Batwoman and the rest of the team. And as Abernathy teases, that should pave the way for a more consistent presence from these characters in the future.
> 
> "I think one of my favorite sequences in all of The Joker War was the gathering of the Bat Family back together, as thats been a goal of mine since taking over this position," he said. "*The Bat-Family is really a super hero universe in and of itself and greater connectivity among the titles is the goal for the coming year.*"[...]



...joy. More connectivity. I thought DC was going for less events and more character-driven stories.  :Frown:

----------


## Sergard

Tony Akins

_"New faces (and some old ones) being met on the streets of Gotham Citys Hill District. #dccomics #gothamcity #redhood #dcentertainment"_

----------


## RedBird

> Well, this was an unnecessary discussion.
> I hope whoever uploaded the first panel had a lot of fun reading all the reactions.





> I did


Ha, Cheeky.

I thought that comment about this irking more fans than what was done to Wally and Ivy in HIC combined was an exaggeration till I saw the reactions of an out of context, out of continuity panel yesterday.

Shipping is serious business, that's for sure.  :Stick Out Tongue: 




> ...joy. More connectivity. I thought DC was going for less events and more character-driven stories.


Do you suppose the original statement of more character driven stories and less events was meant more towards _other_ dc titles, in the form of OGNs and digital only releases, and was excluding the Bat-Family mains. Especially since it seems as though the Bats are viewed as almost existing in their own universe. With all these books dropping, and the maybe/maybe not relaunch around the corner, I wonder if we'll still see a Red Hood title in the future. If DC will drop it altogether, or if they will finally promote the title with a new long term creative team and give it a push.

----------


## Zaresh

> Ha, Cheeky.
> 
> I thought that comment about this irking more fans than what was done to Wally and Ivy in HIC combined was an exaggeration till I saw the reactions of an out of context, out of continuity panel yesterday.
> 
> *Shipping is serious business, that's for sure.* 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you suppose the original statement of more character driven stories and less events was meant more towards _other_ dc titles, in the form of OGNs and digital only releases, and was excluding the Bat-Family mains. Especially since it seems as though the Bats are viewed as almost existing in their own universe. With all these books dropping, and the maybe/maybe not relaunch around the corner, I wonder if we'll still see a Red Hood title in the future. If DC will drop it altogether, or if they will finally promote the title with a new long term creative team and give it a push.


I saw the Kori-Babs wars. It is.

About the connectivity, I think you're onto something. It's straight what fans write in their fanfics and fancomics, and I suspect it's the approach DC is, well, approaching, to be honest. I would've prefered each tittle being its own thing with some nods, occasional supporting roles and guest starrings here and there; but I don't think it's going to be an event feast anymore.

----------


## Sergard

> [...]
> 
> Do you suppose the original statement of more character driven stories and less events was meant more towards _other_ dc titles, in the form of OGNs and digital only releases, and was excluding the Bat-Family mains. Especially since it seems as though the Bats are viewed as almost existing in their own universe. With all these books dropping, and the maybe/maybe not relaunch around the corner, I wonder if we'll still see a Red Hood title in the future. If DC will drop it altogether, or if they will finally promote the title with a new long term creative team and give it a push.


I've found the article: Jim Lee Says a '5G Reboot' of the DC Universe Is 'Not Going to Happen'




> "There won't be a project called '5G', or a big reboot, or whatever," Lee said during a prerecorded video for fans. "We really want to focus on individual titles, and organically build up individual characters over the course of the next year."
> 
> Lee continued to explain that there are "a lot of great ideas...floating around. And rather than dumping it all in one month and renumbering the line and going for that really short term spike in sales, we just naturally gravitated to the story ideas and concepts we love and building them into the mythology, the ongoing [DC] mythology, in a very organic way."


Theoretically you could be right. When I read Jim Lee's statement for the first time, I didn't even think about the possibility of exclusions. I just assumed that this approach was a general rule that holds true for every character. Although viewing the batfamily as their own little universe doesn't feel very "organic" to me.

Altogether, this feels like a huge letdown. I'm tired of how DC utilizes the batfamily.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

The Batfamily isn't going to be excluded, if anything, it is what will set the pace for this new "era" of DC as whole.

----------


## RedBird

> The Batfamily isn't going to be excluded, if anything, it is what will set the pace for this new "era" of DC as whole.


So, the Batfamily will have more connectivity amongst its titles, AND will focus more on building up individual titles organically?
The first option sounds much more likely to be under a heavier editorial mandate than the second option, which is why they sounded a little contradictory.
Though admittedly, it could be just a misinterpretation, the information in that 5G article is a little vague. The more direct news in relation to the Batfamily is the Joker war article, with the goal of _greater connectivity_ between titles. 
Which to be honest, does not sound very appealing considering previous instances where the titles had more connectivity with crossovers and events and such. Whatever is planned, here's hoping it works out though.

----------


## Restingvoice

Greater connectivity is not the problem. Greater connectivity is a good thing if you're writing a shared universe. That's how it should be. 

The problem is top-down hiearchy. When only Batman can determine the course of the story, and only Batman story can affect the rest while each of the family members are not allowed to grow and affect the other titles including Batman. That is unnatural storytelling and the opposite of organic character driven stories. 

For the universe to have both greater connectivity and character-driven, each character must be allowed to affect each other with equal chance. No more top-down pyramidal directive.

----------


## Frontier

> After Joker War: The Future of Batman and Gotham City in 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...joy. More connectivity. I thought DC was going for less events and more character-driven stories.


I mean, I'd personally prefer character-driven interconnectedness like in the 90's rather than just isolated books that rarely connect with each other at all aside from when events happen.

But that's just me.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

[IMG]https://cdna.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/030/592/242/large/joey-vazquez-batman-and-family-copy.jpg?1601054119[/IMG]
Gotham Knights by Joey Vazquez

----------


## RedBird

> The problem is top-down hiearchy. When only Batman can determine the course of the story, and only Batman story can affect the rest while each of the family members are not allowed to grow and affect the other titles including Batman. That is unnatural storytelling and the opposite of organic character driven stories.


That has definitely been one of the biggest overarching issues in the recent attempts to connect the Bat-Family titles. So unless there's a shakeup to how DC approaches this though, unfortunately we may be in for more of the same top-down layout, with everything circling around Batman. Again, hopefully that won't be the case though.




> I mean, I'd personally prefer character-driven interconnectedness like in the 90's rather than just isolated books that rarely connect with each other at all aside from when events happen.
> 
> But that's just me.


Yeah, that would nice too. Perhaps not with all the titles, things are more crowded now than they were in the 90s, but the main ones at least, like Nightwing and Batgirl or Robin or BOP etc.

----------


## RedBird

Lovely artwork, and on that topic, is anyone else looking forward to that new Gotham Knights game? 

I know they only recently dropped the initial trailer, but I still want to know more about the game and see more screenshots asap. 

I'm still very pleasantly surprised that a game focused on the Bat-Family was greenlit. Never really thought it would happen.

----------


## Zaresh

> Lovely artwork, and on that topic, is anyone else looking forward to that new Gotham Knights game? 
> 
> I know they only recently dropped the initial trailer, but I still want to know more about the game and see more screenshots asap. 
> 
> I'm still very pleasantly surprised that a game focused on the Bat-Family was greenlit. Never really thought it would happen.


I am. I'm honestly interested in the game. I can't help but wish for some Witcher 3-like game, for some reason.

----------


## RedBird

> I am. I'm honestly interested in the game. I can't help but wish for some Witcher 3-like game, for some reason.


One thing I always wanted in the Arkham series, especially when it expanded into Gotham City, was the ability to help random Gotham citizens. Not just NPCs that are part of a mission, I mean to be roaming or patrolling the city, and randomly coming across crimes in progress. Since this game is all about taking up the mantle and the legacy of the Batman, you can have it so that the more you take time to help people, the more your reputation grows. So something similar to Red Dead Redemption.

Any particular Witcher 3-like elements you'd like to see?

----------


## Zaresh

> One thing I always wanted in the Arkham series, especially when it expanded into Gotham City, was the ability to help random Gotham citizens. Not just NPCs that are part of a mission, I mean to be roaming or patrolling the city, and randomly coming across crimes in progress. Since this game is all about taking up the mantle and the legacy of the Batman, you can have it so that the more you take time to help people, the more your reputation grows. So something similar to Red Dead Redemption.
> 
> Any particular Witcher 3-like elements you'd like to see?


Well, a lived city, for starters. Then, the fact that you can develop your characters, and the feel of exploration and discovering. I love rpgs, and I love coming across small stories that I can unravel completing sidequest and the like. I could be fine with a RDR2-like game too, but for some reason The Witcher 3 came to my mind when I was thinking about how I would hope the game to feel like. Something with a world more alive than any plain GTA-esque game.

----------


## RedBird

> Well, a lived city, for starters. Then, the fact that you can develop your characters, and the feel of exploration and discovering. I love rpgs, and I love coming across small stories that I can unravel completing sidequest and the like. I could be fine with a RDR2-like game too, but for some reason The Witcher 3 came to my mind when I was thinking about how I would hope the game to feel like. Something with a world more alive than any plain GTA-esque game.


Good choices, and considering that GK is set to be an action RPG just as Witcher 3 was, I also hope that it has a similar feel. I too really enjoy the smaller stories in RPGs.
Also just for clarification, I didn't intend to imply that I want the game to be more GTA-like with that Red Dead Redemption comparison, just that I would like something similar to just that one particular gameplay mechanic in RDR that allowed you to help random citizens with the specific result being rewarded with points towards your reputation. I believe Witcher 3 had a similar sort of deal, where you could help people attacked by bandits, but (and correct me if I'm wrong) those rewarded the player with XP or mainly bonus loot, and whilst XP sounds fine, I don't think I would want the citizens of Gotham to empty their pockets for the vigilante saving them.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Zaresh

> Good choices, and considering that GK is set to be an action RPG just as Witcher 3 was, I also hope that it has a similar feel. I too really enjoy the smaller stories in RPGs.
> Also just for clarification, I didn't intend to imply that I want the game to be more GTA-like with that Red Dead Redemption comparison, just that I would like something similar to just that one particular gameplay mechanic in RDR that allowed you to help random citizens with the specific result being rewarded with points towards your reputation. I believe Witcher 3 had a similar sort of deal, where you could help people attacked by bandits, but (and correct me if I'm wrong) those rewarded the player with XP or bonus loot, and whilst XP sounds fine, I don't think I would want the citizens of Gotham to empty their pockets for the vigilante saving them.


I remember loot, but it could be experience too, I don't remember it that well (it didn't happened often, I think. Edit: I looked into it, they ended up being scripted, not random). Oh, citizens could "drop" info, I guess. Clues and rumours or... Imagine that xD.

The first RDR didn't feel very alive yeah, (it was very much like any GTA up until that time), but the second one does feel like it has an actual world in it, and you can follow the missadventures of lots of npcs in it, so it's a perfectly alright example of what I wish for the game in that regard  :Big Grin: .

Edit: or like the random encounters in Skyrim (those were actual random and happened relatively often). That could be nice. But I doubt it'd be as deep as that, giving almost every npc a routine and background (it's not like Skyrim was very populated, so it helped).

----------


## RedBird

> I remember loot, but it could be experience too, I don't remember it that well. Oh, citizens could "drop" info, I guess. Clues and rumours or... Imagine that xD.
> 
> The first RDR didn't feel very alive yeah, (it was very much like any GTA up until that time), but the second one does feel like it has an actual world in it, and you can follow the missadventures of lots of npcs in it, so it's a perfectly alright example of what I wish for the game in that regard .
> 
> Edit: or like the random encounters in Skyriim. That could be nice. But I doubt it'd be so much deep like that, giving almost every npc a routine and background.


Hmmm, honestly I think I actually recall RDR having such random encounters also providing you with 'loot' as well, so maybe it's not quite so different to Witcher 3 after all. XD I suppose such is life in the Wild West or Fantasy Worlds, where good deeds don't go unrewarded.

But yeah, agreed, citizens providing information would be an interesting addition.

Also, in the gameplay for Gotham Knights it showed Alfred conversing with Barbara over the com link as she headed towards the Mr Freeze mission. I think what would also be kind of a neat way to both flesh out the main characters and add more intrigue to each characters path would be conversations over the com links with not only the other three protagonists, but also other DC characters. And have it be so that depending on which character you choose, you can receive messages from different allies/friends. For example if you choose to be Barbara, then you can receive messages and converse with Dinah and/or Helena. Also as a bonus, if there are going to be DLC characters added later down the road, it could be used as a way to weave them into the story and world as well.

----------


## Zaresh

> Hmmm, honestly I think I actually recall RDR having such random encounters also providing you with 'loot' as well, so maybe it's not quite so different to Witcher 3 after all. XD I suppose such is life in the Wild West or Fantasy Worlds, where good deeds don't go unrewarded.
> 
> But yeah, agreed, citizens providing information would be an interesting addition.
> 
> Also, in the gameplay for Gotham Knights it showed Alfred conversing with Barbara over the com link as she headed towards the Mr Freeze mission. I think what would also be kind of a neat way to both flesh out the main characters and add more intrigue to each characters path would be conversations over the com links with not only the other three protagonists, but also other DC characters. And have it be so that depending on which character you choose, you can receive messages from different allies/friends. For example if you choose to be Barbara, then you can receive messages and converse with Dinah and/or Helena. Also as a bonus, if there are going to be DLC characters added later down the road, it could be used as a way to weave them into the story and world as well.


Ah, that could be nice too. Didn't GTA V have something like that? And Persona 5 uses messages in your in-game smartphone to help you organise your social schedule and develop your social links (or confidents, like the 5th game calls them). And there's the photos that henchmen and villains send to you in the Lego Villains game, when they show themselves doing stuff: it's fun, but it could be helpful in the game too, if it pointed you to crimes being attempted or something like that. And there's the dialogues between teammates that I think are already confirmed the game is going to have, that I guess are like the ones in Mass Effect or The Other Worlds.

----------


## Sergard

> Greater connectivity is not the problem. Greater connectivity is a good thing if you're writing a shared universe. That's how it should be. 
> 
> The problem is top-down hiearchy. When only Batman can determine the course of the story, and only Batman story can affect the rest while each of the family members are not allowed to grow and affect the other titles including Batman. That is unnatural storytelling and the opposite of organic character driven stories. 
> 
> For the universe to have both greater connectivity and character-driven, *each character must be allowed to affect each other with equal chance. No more top-down pyramidal directive.*


We both know this will never happen.

The only characters who win from connectivity are Batman, Nightwing and Robin (Damian Wayne) because they are on top of the hierarchy. And do you know which writers like to misuse Jason's character the most? Batman, Nightwing and Robin writers.

Is it really too much to ask that Jason gets his own independent stories that have nothing to do with the batfamily? Don't get me wrong, I love big families - but DC has successfully ruined the batfamily.

If Jason has to be part of a "universe" within the DC universe than it should be his own universe that focuses on the Outlaws/his family.
I want to read stories where Jason is an organic part of a family(-like) group. And we already have this with the Outlaws (Artemis, Bizarro), Ma Gunn and the Generation Outlaw kids. Jason even has his own dog. And let's be realistic: We'll never have organic stories with Jason as part of the batfamily. Writers won't suddenly change their mind. Tynion is continuing on Batman and Tomasi is currently writing Detective Comics. We've seen in Batman: Pennyworth R.I.P. how they treat Jason's character.

----------


## Restingvoice

> We both know this will never happen.
> 
> The only characters who win from connectivity are Batman, Nightwing and Robin (Damian Wayne) because they are on top of the hierarchy. And do you know which writers like to misuse Jason's character the most? Batman, Nightwing and Robin writers.
> 
> Is it really too much to ask that Jason gets his own independent stories that have nothing to do with the batfamily? Don't get me wrong, I love big families - but DC has successfully ruined the batfamily.
> 
> If Jason has to be part of a "universe" within the DC universe than it should be his own universe that focuses on the Outlaws/his family.
> I want to read stories where Jason is an organic part of a family(-like) group. And we already have this with the Outlaws (Artemis, Bizarro), Ma Gunn and the Generation Outlaw kids. Jason even has his own dog. And let's be realistic: We'll never have organic stories with Jason as part of the batfamily. Writers won't suddenly change their mind. Tynion is continuing on Batman and Tomasi is currently writing Detective Comics. We've seen in Batman: Pennyworth R.I.P. how they treat Jason's character.


Nightwing and Robin lost 2 years of characterization/character development because of the top-down hierarchy. No one is safe as long as they're using that model, and if they're not changing it, then they'll just have to continue not getting my money.

----------


## Aahz

> Nightwing and Robin lost 2 years of characterization/character development because of the top-down hierarchy. No one is safe as long as they're using that model, and if they're not changing it, then they'll just have to continue not getting my money.


But they also got some good stuff out the connection, both had bigger roles (or at least good appearances and showings) in crossovers and Thomasi has written a lot of good Batman and Robin team ups.

When it comes to good appearances for Jason the list pretty short (especially opposed to the issues where he is basically written as an idiot).

----------


## Sergard

> Nightwing and Robin lost 2 years of characterization/character development because of the top-down hierarchy. No one is safe as long as they're using that model, and if they're not changing it, then they'll just have to continue not getting my money.


Dick Grayson already has 80 years of characterization/character development. These 2 years won't matter - especially because writers can just ignore the Ric era. He had amnesia. That's all. Now he has his memories back and writers can use him again as the best leader, hottest guy, best martial artist, best detective, best spy, best Robin, better than Batman, better than anybody else in the batfamily, best whatever in the DC universe.

Damian is protected. He's the blood son and current Robin. I bet with Dick's return, Damian will also be back to his old self. If anything, the whole story with Damian will probably only make Bruce look bad. I even doubt that Damian will have to face any consequences. Writers will just play "He's a kid"-card. Judging by the solicitation for Detective Comics, Tomasi handles Damian's fallout with Bruce (and in true Tomasi fashion, he's using other batfamily members as fodder for his Bruce & Damian story - just like in Batman & Robin):




> DETECTIVE COMICS #1032
> written by PETER J. TOMASI
> art and cover by BRAD WALKER and ANDREW HENNESSY
> card stock variant cover by LEE BERMEJO
> ON SALE 12/8/20
> $3.99 US | 32 PAGES | FC | DC
> CARD STOCK VARIANT COVER $4.99 US
> Father vs. son round two! Batman and Damian Wayne are once again butting heads after Bruce uncovers the missing Black Casebook pages in the clutches of his estranged son. But when the notorious Hush captures the entire Bat-Family, the Dark Knight and the former Boy Wonder must put aside their differences to help Nightwing, Batgirl, Signal, Orphan, Red Hood, and Batwoman survive!


So in the end, the only thing that really happened was you saving some money.

----------


## Aahz

> Dick Grayson already has 80 years of characterization/character development. These 2 years won't matter - especially because writers can just ignore the Ric era. He had amnesia. That's all.


And the blame for this going on for so long is probably more with the Nightwing editors/writers as with the Batfamily Hirachy, I think if they really had wanted they could have probably dealed with the Fallout from Batman #50 in a way that would have brought Dick back to normal much faster or would have had less impact than giving him amnesia.
And that imo the same for most other occasion where his book was derailed by an event, cross over ect.

----------


## Konja7

> We both know this will never happen.
> 
> The only characters who win from connectivity are Batman, Nightwing and Robin (Damian Wayne) because they are on top of the hierarchy. And do you know which writers like to misuse Jason's character the most? Batman, Nightwing and Robin writers.
> 
> *Is it really too much to ask that Jason gets his own independent stories that have nothing to do with the batfamily? Don't get me wrong, I love big families - but DC has successfully ruined the batfamily.*
> 
> If Jason has to be part of a "universe" within the DC universe than it should be his own universe that focuses on the Outlaws/his family.
> I want to read stories where Jason is an organic part of a family(-like) group. And we already have this with the Outlaws (Artemis, Bizarro), Ma Gunn and the Generation Outlaw kids. Jason even has his own dog. And let's be realistic: We'll never have organic stories with Jason as part of the batfamily. Writers won't suddenly change their mind. Tynion is continuing on Batman and Tomasi is currently writing Detective Comics. We've seen in Batman: Pennyworth R.I.P. how they treat Jason's character.


It is likely too much to ask, because the Batfamily is the only thing that DC care about Jason (they will likely disregard all the stories on his comic when a new writer take control over him). 

To be fair, the Batfamily is a protection for Jason too. He is a popular character, but his comic isn't a really good seller anymore. So, the Batfamily (and Jason's complicated relationship with them) is one of the reasons why DC won't send the character to the limbo.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Dick Grayson already has 80 years of characterization/character development. These 2 years won't matter - especially because writers can just ignore the Ric era. He had amnesia. That's all. Now he has his memories back and writers can use him again as the best leader, hottest guy, best martial artist, best detective, best spy, best Robin, better than Batman, better than anybody else in the batfamily, best whatever in the DC universe.
> 
> Damian is protected. He's the blood son and current Robin. I bet with Dick's return, Damian will also be back to his old self. If anything, the whole story with Damian will probably only make Bruce look bad. I even doubt that Damian will have to face any consequences. Writers will just play "He's a kid"-card. Judging by the solicitation for Detective Comics, Tomasi handles Damian's fallout with Bruce (and in true Tomasi fashion, he's using other batfamily members as fodder for his Bruce & Damian story - just like in Batman & Robin):
> 
> 
> 
> So in the end, the only thing that really happened was you saving some money.


Yeah? That's just how it goes? Story bad no buy story good buy.

No, but I get it. Less favorited character means less chance to get him right.  We can sorta say that Good Guy Red Hood is only 9 years old at this point, and even now DC and the fans are still back and forth between him as a hero or villain... so there's fear that they're gonna ruin him... again... maybe forever... but here's the thing...

Is DC actually invested in Jason or not? That's the simple, big question for me, and it applies to every character. If they're good on one story but not on the other, then I'll buy that one. I'm not investing in the other one... and let's say they got nothing for me, then they got nothing from me. 

From what I've seen, in general, they still want to, they just suck at the details, so then the solution is simple: cherry picking. Gotham Nights and Titans Together seems good, so let's pick those. Batfamily story if bad, then don't. The main Red Hood comic, if it's good keep following until they're not, then quit, then pick it up again once it get good again, buying and playing Gotham Knights while we're at it.  

Old fans say they need to keep reading because they're already too invested in it, if they quit buying now then "what have I been doing all this time", and if they quit, then maybe DC will actually quit producing stuff for me and I will no longer see my faves again... but in actuality, they're dangling people by a thread, and I'm not a fish. 

So that's why, if there's a danger sign, let's get out and wait without paying. It's these people who have to prove themselves to us.

----------


## Zaresh

Brief notification. I've just updated the fic table with a dozen of old-new works. As usual, to find them in the link, sort by recording date > descending. Link here and OP post.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Brief notification. I've just updated the fic table with a dozen of old-new works. As usual, to find them in the link, sort by recording date > descending. Link here and OP post.


Honestly, it could use a search function allowing the person to narrow down tags of what they want or don't want.

----------


## Zaresh

> Honestly, it could use a search function allowing the person to narrow down tags of what they want or don't want.


It could, but I can't find any function that allows me to organize it that way. I want to share a list of tags for several of the columns so that you can use your browser's own search function with them. I guess I can put some of those lists already, and then update them with every new tag each time I add a new onw. Give me a few days and I'll have it ready.

Edit: if any of you know a better place where to make this sort of tables that would allow find and cross out by tags in a row or column, I can always move those links there  :Cool:

----------


## Zaresh

Tags guide to the fanfics list, part 1.
For searching into the table, copy them in your browser's search tool.

Just suggest any changes you would like to make, as usual  :Smile: 

These tags correspond to the "*Ships and Warnings*" column. There are two types of tags here: the ones that guide about relationships depicted in the fics, and the ones guiding about trigger warnings. Each group have their own colour code.

*Ships tags*. These are romantic or sexual in nature. Emotional or familial relationships are excluded.

*Green tags*
+ Gen/No ships: the fic doesn't depict any kind of romantic or sexual repationship. This is the only tag in this colour so far.

*Purple tags*. These are the Male/Female ships of any variant.

+ JayTemis (Jason/Artemis), JayDonna, JayOFC (Jason/Original Female Character), BruceSelina, BruceTalia, DickKori, DickBabs, TimBabs.

*Blue tags*. These are the Male/Male and its variants, like M/M/M

+ JayTim, JayDick, JayKyle, JayTimKon, JayJoey (Jason/JosephWilson), JayDami, TimKon, TimDick, BruceSlade, DickSlade

*Pink tags*. These are the Female/Female and its variants, like F/F/F.

+ HarleyIvy

*Dark gray tags* are reserved for other kind of ships, like genderless androids. No tags so far.

*Trigger Warning tags*. These use three colours, from less triggering to most, or so I hope. I'm not really good at this stuff, to be honest.

*Yellow tags*. These are the softer triggerings. Can appear in general audience, teen aged and mature readers works.

+ Confined Spaces, Curse Feast, Dissociative Disorders, Fire and Explosions, Panick Attacks, Violence.

*Orange tags*. Can appear in teen aged and mature works.

+ Character Death, Depression, Implied Sex, Major Injuries, Mind Control, Nudity, Severe Illnesses.

*Red tags*. Can appear in teen (some, at least, but only sparsely, and depending on how they're used in the fic) and mature works.

+ Child Abuse, Drug Abuse, Explicit Sexual Content, Gore, Mutilation, NonCon, Sexual Violence, Suicidal Thoughts, Torture.

----------


## Sergard

Otto Schmidt

_"The Clan of the grumpies from the Earth 11."_





On a different note, it seems like Matthew Rosenberg is a Red Hood fan ... 

Matthew Rosenberg

Matthew Rosenberg Twitter 28-09-2020.jpg



... and apparently also a fan of Shawn Martinbrough, the writer of Red Hood #51 and #52.

Shawn Martinbrough

Shawn Martinbrough Twitter 28-09-2020.jpg

----------


## Frontier

> Otto Schmidt
> 
> _"The Clan of the grumpies from the Earth 11."_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a different note, it seems like Matthew Rosenberg is a Red Hood fan ... 
> ...


Shouldn't male Kate still be a redhead?

----------


## Zaresh

> Otto Schmidt
> 
> _"The Clan of the grumpies from the Earth 11."_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a different note, it seems like Matthew Rosenberg is a Red Hood fan ... 
> ...


Aw yeah. Mattew's a guy with taste. Hawkeye, Red Hood...  :Cool:

----------


## fearyouhavemeisenough

Excellent breakdown, many congratulations. I don't know what to expect for the series in the future, I just pray it's good

----------


## fearyouhavemeisenough

> Aaand the spoilers are legit


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY only a Kiss. I'm disappointed.  wooow thanks for getting this incredible information, you're great

----------


## Sergard

The fan-made Jason Todd Zine is still in the works. The organizer/s have posted previews for the artworks. Personally, I'm excited for this.



(source)




(source)



(source)

----------


## Zaresh

Tags guide to the fanfics list, part 2.
For searching into the table, copy them in your browser's search tool.

Just suggest any changes you would like to make, as usual  :Cool: .

These tags correspond to the "*Themes, Genres and Tropes*" column. There are several types of tags here, grouped into different colours.

*Yellow tags.*
These ones are the main genres and subgenres tags. I assign them to each work when there's a considerable amount of each genre's elements and narrative in said work. Normally, fictional works swing between genres in the course of the story that they're telling, so it's better to just mention the most important ones.

+ Main genres: Adventure, Comedy, Drama, Fantasy, Horror, Romance, Sci Fi, Suspense.
+ Subgenres: CaseFic (when a story revolves around a case or a series of cases, duh), Domestic (when it's mostly slice of life, daily routines content), Magic Realism (it means soft fantasy more or less, like certain fanfic that I remember about raining every time Jason was sad), metafiction (when it uses the fact that it's a fictional work in the narrative, selfawareness, etc.), Murder Mystery, Road Trips, SicFic (this one's popular enough to deserve a tag) and Urban Fantasy.

*Green tags.*
Tags to make notice of alternate universes than the ordinary DCU with their canon divergences. Not yet added, but Teen Titans and Young Justice would have their own tags.

+ Arkhamverse, Elseworlds (everything that's not the regular main verse; from vikings to pirates to the non-DCU far outer space), Vertigoverse (which is a bit different than the plain old DCU)

*Pink tags.*
Pink tags are more or less emotional tags. Moods, emotional tropes, familial dynamics, etc.

+ Moods: Angst, Fluff
+ Dynamics: Batfam Feels, Parent-Child Relationship, Sibling Bonding
+ Emotional struggles: Grief/Mourning, Hurt/Confort, Moving On, PTSD

*Purple tags.*
These are smaller tropes, narrative tools and elements in a story. From vampires and werewolves to home renovations, to de-aging or time travel. In short, things that you would like or not to find in these works.

+ Age Reversal (the most common one is the one with the Robins ages switched), Aliens and Outer Space Monsters, All-caste Lore, Bruce's Biokids (non counting Damian or Helena, one or several of the youngsters are Bruce biokids), Building Collapse, Children, Court of Owls, De-aging, Demons, Dragons, Gods, Ghosts, Fantastic Creatures, The Fair Folk (fae, fairies, etc.), Home Renovations, Magic, Merpeople, Multiverse Travel (multiverse is not the same as dimensional), Mythology Lore (Norse, Greek, Egyptian), No Capes, Pets, Social Media Culture, Soulbonds and Soulmarks (includes the whole soulmate topic), Supernatural Elements, Tabletop RPGs and LARP, Time-Travel, Truth Spells and Serums, Zombie Apocalypse, Vampires, Werewolves.

*Red tags.*
Associated with the roles and backgrounds that Jason plays besides the more canonical or fanfictioney but common ones. The civilian ones only apply to the DCU and canon divergence settled stories.

+ Amnesiac Jason Todd, Civilian Jason Todd, Cook Master Jason Todd, Father Todd, Immortal Jason Todd, Jason is Shiva's Child, JayBats, Kid Jason Todd (Robin or not), Lantern Jason Todd, Nerd Jason Todd.

*Blue tags.*
Associated with the roles and backgrounds that Dick plays besides the more canonical or fanfictioney but common ones.

+ Amnesiac Dick Grayson (it's surprisingly non rare), DickBats, Lantern Dick Grayson, Officer Grayson.

*Orange tags.*
Associated with the roles and backgrounds that Tim plays besides the more canonical or fanfictioney but common ones.

+ Amnesiac Tim Drake, Civilian Tim Drake, Nerd Tim Drake.

----------


## Sergard

Anyone else a fan of the _Among us_ game?

hudarts

----------


## Sergard

Quic

_Jason Todd- final part #dcshg 
next day in the morning in the wayne manor~_

----------


## Sergard



----------


## Sergard

Bonus: Tim Drake




Off-topic: Did you all know that Ra's Al Ghul is a great singer in DC Super Hero Girls?

----------


## Zaresh

> Off-topic: Did you all know that Ra's Al Ghul is a great singer in DC Super Hero Girls?


Cool song, cool voice (I mean the singer). I dig it.

----------


## Rac7d*

Just so everyone know the actor who plays Jason Todd is 5’10
I know this becuase I called him short and he got upset and clarified 
So I’m glad that’s out of the way

----------


## Vakanai

> Just so everyone know the actor who plays Jason Todd is 5’10
> I know this becuase I called him short and he got upset and clarified 
> So I’m glad that’s out of the way


I don't know, I'm 5'9 or 5'10 and it feels like I'm constantly running up to 6'+ guys all the time.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I don't know, I'm 5'9 or 5'10 and it feels like I'm constantly running up to 6'+ guys all the time.


5'11 here. About 6 with shoes on. I guess Curran isn't short, but he just seems shorter than some of the others on Titans. But if he ways more than 150lbs, I'd be surprised.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Just so everyone know the actor who plays Jason Todd is 510
> I know this becuase I called him short and he got upset and clarified 
> So Im glad thats out of the way


He is short for an American and even shorter for how Jason is depicted in the comics.

----------


## Rac7d*

> I don't know, I'm 5'9 or 5'10 and it feels like I'm constantly running up to 6'+ guys all the time.


Anna Diop must be 63

----------


## Sergard

That's the kind of content I want to see in _Gotham Knights_.  :Cool: 

artist: Symeona

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Just 18 days until the arrival of "Batman: Death in the Family," an interactive animated short in which you control the story!
> Featuring voices of #BruceGreenwood 
> @TheJohnDiMaggio
> 
> @VinMan17
> 
> @ZehraFazal
>  #GaryCole & produced/directed/written by 
> @BrandonVietti
> ...


https://twitter.com/SuperPRGuy/statu...65431888240640

I have no idea if this is just a promotional pic or an actual screenshot from the film, if is the latter, then I wonder what is the context since such scene never happened in the original.

----------


## Sergard

This is a nice Earth-11 Jessy Todd fanart.

artist: Javechan




And of course, there can never be enough Gotham Knights Jason fanart.  :Cool: 

artist: Nic

----------


## Jackalope89

Well, the Adventure Continues went the opposite of 3 Jokers. 

*spoilers:*
Jason tranquilized Babs after taking out Straight Man and kidnapping Joker.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Jman27

> Well, the Adventure Continues went the opposite of 3 Jokers. 
> 
> *spoilers:*
> Jason tranquilized Babs after taking out Straight Man and kidnapping Joker.
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
"expecting to see a clown" that line was funny
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Sergard

Artist: JJMK




Little info for people who enjoy Nick Robles art: Nick Robles is on Patreon now. 




> Cool song, cool voice (I mean the singer). I dig it.


Off-topic, but I'd like to add that Hal Jordan is a good singer too. xD

----------


## Zaresh

> Artist: JJMK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Little info for people who enjoy Nick Robles art: Nick Robles is on Patreon now. 
> 
> 
> 
> Off-topic, but I'd like to add that Hal Jordan is a good singer too. xD


I... Welp...
*Záresh look the other way around.

Yep, singers are great in this series. I can't say I like this song and style that much this time, I left behind my (short lived, to be honest) boys band days long ago. But pre-teens and teens are going to love this stuff.

----------


## Sergard

Previews for the fan-made Jason Todd zine Vol 1 and Vol 2 are out.
Some of them sound really nice and all in all there's a good variety. There's even a story with Jason and Nocturna.

----------


## Sergard

Previews for Vol 2.
Pre-orders are open, by the way.

----------


## Sergard

A few more detailed Jason Todd zine previews.

Artist: onipilot





Artist: kenny





Artist: Moths

----------


## Aahz

Just read Joker War, honestly I find it very wired that Jason in story like that is just written like any other Batfamily member, especially if you have characters like Harley any Clownhunter doing the kind of stuff he did in UTRH.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Just read Joker War, honestly I find it very wired that Jason in story like that is just written like any other Batfamily member, especially if you have characters like Harley any Clownhunter doing the kind of stuff he did in UTRH.


I mean, he might as well not be there since he didn't have a single line of dialogue. Just be there for cool-looking splash pages. If this is how they intend to keep the Batfamily more connected in 2021, then they shouldn't bother. 

On the other hand, Jason had a very brief appearance in today's Gotham Knights that was more substantial than what he did in Jokers War




If they're so bent in making a more connected Batfamily, then they should do what Gotham Knights is doing and show them working as a proper team and not just something that makes for "neat" panels.

----------


## AmiMizuno

What do you guys think about making the Batfam more conntected with each other?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

As I said, I love the idea of a more connected batfamily as long is really treated as one big team and not like writers have to stop their stories in the middle to do a mandated tie in with zero relevance in the larger plot.

----------


## cc008

> What do you guys think about making the Batfam more conntected with each other?





> As I said, I love the idea of a more connected batfamily as long is really treated as one big team and not like writers have to stop their stories in the middle to do a mandated tie in with zero relevance in the larger plot.


Yeah I'm 100% all for connectivity between the Bat family and their books.. so long as one isn't used to prop up any of the others.

----------


## Aahz

> I mean, he might as well not be there since he didn't have a single line of dialogue. Just be there for cool-looking splash pages. If this is how they intend to keep the Batfamily more connected in 2021, then they shouldn't bother.


I usually don't mind if he just pops up in a Splash Page (I think Dick and Barbara were the only ones that got slightly more then that), but not when the Joker is evolved.

----------


## Rise

> If they're so bent in making a more connected Batfamily, then they should do what Gotham Knights is doing and show them working as a proper team and not just something that makes for "neat" panels.


For once, I agree with you on something. 

GK have been really enjoyable and actually better than the main Batman book.

----------


## Zaresh

> For once, I agree with you on something. 
> 
> GK have been really enjoyable and actually better than the main Batman book.


For as much as I've seen of the main Batman book, yep, Gotham Nights at least is more enjoyable, and has the virtue of different guest writers and stories. So you may not like the first in an issue, but love the following one.
I honestly hope this anthology book lasts long.

----------


## RedBird

In general, I agree with the majority here, the idea of the Batfamily working together as a group, being more interconnected, and the one off stories seen in Batman Gotham Knights is refreshing.
In regards to Jason specifically though? Whilst I don't mind the one off stories, (as mentioned) I don't see much value in the idea of him integrating into the Batfamily beyond a few team ups here and there in Gotham. 

There seems to be a lack of consistency as to whether or not Jasons methods are tolerated. During the new52 period, it appeared as though Jason was being slowly welcomed back into the batfamily folds the more he co-operated and on the condition that he didn't kill whilst in Gotham or alongside the other Bats. As far as we know, Jason was still using lethal force in rhato new52 and had opted for nonlethal rounds in major Batfamily events like Batman Eternal. More evidence for the lack of resistance to his lethal methods was in Batman and Robin Eternal when Bruce tells Damian something unique about the other BatBoys and mentions that 'Jason is willing to do what Batman can't, when the world needs it.' Meaning he had come to accept Jasons methods.

I honestly thought this was as much of a decent compromise as you could get between Batman and Red Hood, where DC can still have it's little team ups (since they can't resist pretty group shots) since you can have Jason willing to 'keep it clean' for the sake of the mission, but still have him following his own code elsewhere and in his own title.

However Rhato Rebirth and its editorial influence threw a wrench into that status quo, by then having Jason keep to Bruces no kill rules not only in Gotham, but all the way into Qurac and up until Rhato 25 when they had a falling-out, so Jason killing is now seen as a backwards step for the character, rather than in new52 where it was an accepted fact and part of a compromise. And aside from the latest Nightwing and Batman issue 100 when Bruce calls in the whole family cause he once again is magically back to realising he is stronger with the power of family and friendship and yadda yadda, Jason post rhato 25 has been largely seen as either a shunned outcast or an enemy.

If Jason being more integrated into the Batfamily means he'll be undermined and his moral code will be deemed meaningless. Then no thanks. I'd much prefer him on his own or at least back to the new52 status quo, where there was compromise but definitely not complete conformity.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> In general, I agree with the majority here, the idea of the Batfamily working together as a group, being more interconnected, and the one off stories seen in Batman Gotham Knights is refreshing.
> In regards to Jason specifically though? Whilst I don't mind the one off stories, (as mentioned) I don't see much value in the idea of him integrating into the Batfamily beyond a few team ups here and there in Gotham. 
> 
> There seems to be a lack of consistency as to whether or not Jasons methods are tolerated. During the new52 period, it appeared as though Jason was being slowly welcomed back into the batfamily folds the more he co-operated and on the condition that he didn't kill whilst in Gotham or alongside the other Bats. As far as we know, Jason was still using lethal force in rhato new52 and had opted for nonlethal rounds in major Batfamily events like Batman Eternal. More evidence for the lack of resistance to his lethal methods was in Batman and Robin Eternal when Bruce tells Damian something unique about the other BatBoys and mentions that 'Jason is willing to do what Batman can't, when the world needs it.' Meaning he had come to accept Jasons methods.
> 
> I honestly thought this was as much of a decent compromise as you could get between Batman and Red Hood, where DC can still have it's little team ups (since they can't resist pretty group shots) since you can have Jason willing to 'keep it clean' for the sake of the mission, but still have him following his own code elsewhere and in his own title.
> 
> However Rhato Rebirth and its editorial influence threw a wrench into that status quo, by then having Jason keep to Bruces no kill rules not only in Gotham, but all the way into Qurac and up until Rhato 25 when they had a falling-out, so Jason killing is now seen as a backwards step for the character, rather than in new52 where it was an accepted fact and part of a compromise. And aside from the latest Nightwing and Batman issue 100 when Bruce calls in the whole family cause he once again is magically back to realising he is stronger with the power of family and friendship and yadda yadda, Jason post rhato 25 has been largely seen as either a shunned outcast or an enemy.
> 
> If Jason being more integrated into the Batfamily means he'll be undermined and his moral code will be deemed meaningless. Then no thanks. I'd much prefer him on his own or at least back to the new52 status quo, where there was compromise but definitely not complete conformity.


See, the idea that Jason has been killing on a regular basis even outside of Gotham is a complete misconception.

Even in the N52 Jason only really killed the Qurac terrorists while freeing Roy at the start, and then, he only killed Suzie Zu (who ended up being revived, rendering the whole thing moot. From there he only limited to use lethal force when fighting otherworldly threats like the Untitled, the Blight, or Hellspont, barring some very specific exceptions like the guy behind the Washington nuking attempt in issue 32 or the Venom enhanced mercenaries of issue 36. And the latter can be somewhat excused as being in self-defense. Besides those particular examples, Jason was never seen using lethal force (Roy and Kori were the ones killing people, oddly enough) and by the same token, it was never explicitly stated that he used rubber bullets. Issue 48 of the second volume is the only time it has been explicitly stated this was the case, before it, the only explanation given was him hitting the bad guys in non-lethal places during the War of Robins arc in Batman & Robin. 

During RH&A, Jason was again only seeing killing Palette to save Roy in the first issue, and then a bunch mercs off-panel and then the rogue STAR Labs Scientist in issue 2, from there his killings were once again limited to supernatural threats and once Joker's Daughter joined them, him going non-lethal was an explicit plot point that remained until the end of the series, where he once again broke his vow to save Roy (notice a trend here?)

Rebirth RHATO also kept Jason from killing people up until he shot the Penguin and while it was made a huge deal at the moment, the truth of the matter is that it was pushed by Editorial because they wanted to keep Bruce isolated from his allies to fit King's story, using Roy's death in HIC was a last-minute addition tp retroactively explain his return to violence at the start of The Outlaw period. And even then, this didn't last long, by the time Prince of Gotham started he also stopped killing people, limiting himself to using lethal force against the All Caste Assassins.

So yeah, Jason killing being seen as a regression of his character at this point is 100% intentional and completely in line to how he was written by Lobdell.

----------


## Jackalope89

> See, the idea that Jason has been killing on a regular basis even outside of Gotham is a complete misconception.
> 
> Even in the N52 Jason only really killed the Qurac terrorists while freeing Roy at the start, and then, he only killed Suzie Zu (who ended up being revived, rendering the whole thing moot. From there he only limited to use lethal force when fighting otherworldly threats like the Untitled, the Blight, or Hellspont, barring some very specific exceptions like the guy behind the Washington nuking attempt in issue 32 or the Venom enhanced mercenaries of issue 36. And the latter can be somewhat excused as being in self-defense. Besides those particular examples, Jason was never seen using lethal force (Roy and Kori were the ones killing people, oddly enough) and by the same token, it was never explicitly stated that he used rubber bullets. Issue 48 of the second volume is the only time it has been explicitly stated this was the case, before it, the only explanation given was him hitting the bad guys in non-lethal places during the War of Robins arc in Batman & Robin. 
> 
> During RH&A, Jason was again only seeing killing Palette to save Roy in the first issue, and then a bunch mercs off-panel and then the rogue STAR Labs Scientist in issue 2, from there his killings were once again limited to supernatural threats and once Joker's Daughter joined them, him going non-lethal was an explicit plot point that remained until the end of the series, where he once again broke his vow to save Roy (notice a trend here?)
> 
> Rebirth RHATO also kept Jason from killing people up until he shot the Penguin and while it was made a huge deal at the moment, the truth of the matter is that it was pushed by Editorial because they wanted to keep Bruce isolated from his allies to fit King's story, using Roy's death in HIC was a last-minute addition tp retroactively explain his return to violence at the start of The Outlaw period. And even then, this didn't last long, by the time Prince of Gotham started he also stopped killing people, limiting himself to using lethal force against the All Caste Assassins.
> 
> So yeah, Jason killing being seen as a regression of his character at this point is 100% intentional and completely in line to how he was written by Lobdell.


And when Jason shot Penguin, it was with a blank (revealed later on).

----------


## Konja7

> See, the idea that Jason has been killing on a regular basis even outside of Gotham is a complete misconception.
> 
> Even in the N52 Jason only really killed the Qurac terrorists while freeing Roy at the start, and then, he only killed Suzie Zu (who ended up being revived, rendering the whole thing moot. From there he only limited to use lethal force when fighting otherworldly threats like the Untitled, the Blight, or Hellspont, barring some very specific exceptions like the guy behind the Washington nuking attempt in issue 32 or the Venom enhanced mercenaries of issue 36. And the latter can be somewhat excused as being in self-defense. Besides those particular examples, Jason was never seen using lethal force (Roy and Kori were the ones killing people, oddly enough) and by the same token, it was never explicitly stated that he used rubber bullets. Issue 48 of the second volume is the only time it has been explicitly stated this was the case, before it, the only explanation given was him hitting the bad guys in non-lethal places during the War of Robins arc in Batman & Robin. 
> 
> During RH&A, Jason was again only seeing killing Palette to save Roy in the first issue, and then a bunch mercs off-panel and then the rogue STAR Labs Scientist in issue 2, from there his killings were once again limited to supernatural threats and once Joker's Daughter joined them, him going non-lethal was an explicit plot point that remained until the end of the series, where he once again broke his vow to save Roy (notice a trend here?)
> 
> Rebirth RHATO also kept Jason from killing people up until he shot the Penguin and while it was made a huge deal at the moment, the truth of the matter is that it was pushed by Editorial because they wanted to keep Bruce isolated from his allies to fit King's story, using Roy's death in HIC was a last-minute addition tp retroactively explain his return to violence at the start of The Outlaw period. And even then, this didn't last long, by the time Prince of Gotham started he also stopped killing people, limiting himself to using lethal force against the All Caste Assassins.
> 
> So yeah, Jason killing being seen as a regression of his character at this point is 100% intentional and completely in line to how he was written by Lobdell.


Yeah. Unlike general audience idea about Jason, the current situation in comics is that Jason doesn't regularly kill anymore. 

Jason could use lethal force in a really extreme situation, but he doesn't kill criminals left and right.


Even Johns (and I don't think he reads RHAO) that makes Jason pretty violent in Three Jokers, it still shows the situation of Jason killing as something uncommon.

----------


## RedBird

> See, the idea that Jason has been killing on a regular basis even outside of Gotham is a complete misconception.


Complete misconception how? Jason most certainly has killed outside of Gotham. You even provided several examples. I never stated that Jason killing was a regular thing, just that he wasn't bound to non lethal means.




> See, the idea that Jason has been killing on a regular basis even outside of Gotham is a complete misconception.
> 
> Even in the N52 Jason only really killed the Qurac terrorists while freeing Roy at the start, and then, he only killed Suzie Zu (who ended up being revived, rendering the whole thing moot. From there he only limited to use lethal force when fighting otherworldly threats like the Untitled, the Blight, or Hellspont, barring some very specific exceptions like the guy behind the Washington nuking attempt in issue 32 or the Venom enhanced mercenaries of issue 36. And the latter can be somewhat excused as being in self-defense. Besides those particular examples, Jason was never seen using lethal force (Roy and Kori were the ones killing people, oddly enough)
> 
> ........
> 
> During RH&A, Jason was again only seeing killing Palette to save Roy in the first issue, and then a bunch mercs off-panel and then the rogue STAR Labs Scientist in issue 2, from there his killings were once again limited to supernatural threats and once Joker's Daughter joined them, him going non-lethal was an explicit plot point that remained until the end of the series, where he once again broke his vow to save Roy (notice a trend here?)


Well that's not all, from the top of my head there was also the Talon he killed and Plytus who asked for Jason to kill him in the rhato annual 2. Also, killing even in self defence, is still a no-no in Bat circles, hence why Jason differs from the bunch.
Nowhere in my statement did I say that Jason ONLY killed, just that he was not restricted to non lethal means. This rebuttal does not refute what I originally stated.
Bottom line is, when push came to shove, Jason still killed in his own series.




> and by the same token, it was never explicitly stated that he used rubber bullets. Issue 48 of the second volume is the only time it has been explicitly stated this was the case, before it, the only explanation given was him hitting the bad guys in non-lethal places during the War of Robins arc in Batman & Robin.


I just want to make it clear that my statement was intending to refer to the nonlethal aspect of his time with the Bats, though I should have written nonlethal attacks as opposed to non lethal rounds, so fair point there. But I just want to point out that it indeed HAS been explicitly stated by Jason that he uses rubber bullets in new52, though it's not without context. (For example mind controlled civilians. See Batman Eternal 41) The fact that he is warned to attack people in non lethal places is also stated and upheld in Batman Eternal issue 18 and 19. And the rubber bullets also made a return in rhato rebirth issue 48, this time on criminals.





> Rebirth RHATO also kept Jason from killing people up until he shot the Penguin and while it was made a huge deal at the moment, the truth of the matter is that it was pushed by Editorial because they wanted to keep Bruce isolated from his allies to fit King's story, using Roy's death in HIC was a last-minute addition tp retroactively explain his return to violence at the start of The Outlaw period.


We've already established rhato rebirth kept Jason from killing till the fallout from issue 25, whether it's due to Roy's death or Bruces separation or not was not the issue. The issue I was pointing out was the complete editorial change in approach to Red Hood up till that point to even warrant this supposed 'regression'.




> And even then, this didn't last long, by the time Prince of Gotham started he also stopped killing people, limiting himself to using lethal force against the All Caste Assassins.


This impression that it didn't 'last long' is only because Jason came across few enemies from the Prince of Gotham arc that weren't 'All Caste Assassins' (though I'm not sure why them being assassins makes taking their lives any better. Limiting or not it's still a lethal act), and then after there was the Outlaw arc which is one of the few arcs that gave a halfway decent explanation for Jason refusing to kill, since he wanted to be a role model for his students and not resort to killing as eagerly as they did. Also again, this 'didn't last long' statement doesn't add up since Jason attempted to kill several clown henchmen just 2 issues ago, in rhato rebirth issue 48. He even acts like a smart ass about it since he promised Bruce he wouldn't shoot and kill (he mentions the rubber bullets in the issue since it's 'Bruces' city) but decides he can simply let them perish in the building explosion as a loop hole. So far, he still seems to be fine with killing.





> So yeah, *Jason killing being seen as a regression of his character at this point is 100% intentional* and completely in line to how he was written by Lobdell.


I doubt that considering what just happened only two issues ago, but mainly, I would like to point out this interview which is what I was referring to with the editorial change in approach to Red Hood.


SL
_'I think Jason should only kill when he doesn’t have other options. I think he should probably only kill when his life (or that of another person) is in imminent danger.

When the series started, I understood they wanted to instill a “No Killing In Gotham City Rule.”  But when we got to Qurac, I had him killing terrorists and soldiers who were trying to kill him.  I got a note: “he can’t kill, remember?”  I was like, “he’s in the middle of a war!” The note came back: “doesn’t matter. He promised.” Honestly, I was a little embarrassed: part of putting him in the middle of the war was so that I thought I could write a sort of Jason Unbound! So now I have him in the middle of a war and he can’t shoot any one. Sigh.'_



So, yeah, it wasn't intentional, at least not by the writer. Jason all of a sudden abiding by Bruces rules even _outside_ of Gotham and away from bats was an editorial decision. 
As I already stated, the exact kind of decision that I hope does not make a return. Jason should be lethal when he needs to be.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Complete misconception how? Jason most certainly has killed outside of Gotham. You even provided several examples. I never stated that Jason killing was a regular thing, just that he wasn't bound to non lethal means.


I'm not saying that he doesn't kill, but that he doesn't kill *regularly*, small but significant difference. 






> Well that's not all, from the top of my head there was also the Talon he killed and Plytus who asked for Jason to kill him in the rhato annual 2. Also, killing even in self defence, is still a no-no in Bat circles, hence why Jason differs from the bunch.
> Nowhere in my statement did I say that Jason ONLY killed, just that he was not restricted to non lethal means. This rebuttal does not refute what I originally stated.
> Bottom line is, when push came to shove, Jason still killed in his own series.


The Talon was unlivin and Plytus was an alien. See my post again, Jason's vow to not kill only applies to humans. Aliens and mystical/magical beinngs are fair game, an attitude that some writers have had Bruce sharing. 





> I just want to make it clear that my statement was intending to refer to the nonlethal aspect of his time with the Bats, though I should have written nonlethal attacks as opposed to non lethal rounds, so fair point there. But I just want to point out that it indeed HAS been explicitly stated by Jason that he uses rubber bullets in new52, though it's not without context. (For example mind controlled civilians. See Batman Eternal 41) The fact that he is warned to attack people in non lethal places is also stated and upheld in Batman Eternal issue 18 and 19. And the rubber bullets also made a return in rhato rebirth issue 48, this time on criminals.


I don't counted the Eternals because Jason was awfully mishandled and written OOC of character there to begin with, so those stories only serve as an example of how to *not write* a connected Batfamily. Issue 48 of the second Volume of RHATO is the only time Lobdell himself has explicitly stated that Jason was using rubber bullets.





> We've already established rhato rebirth kept Jason from killing till the fallout from issue 25, whether it's due to Roy's death or Bruces separation or not was not the issue. The issue I was pointing out was the complete editorial change in approach to Red Hood up till that point to even warrant this supposed 'regression'.


Again, because the priority was set the stage for King's story with no care of what writers of the extended Batfamily books had planned for their series. Lobdell simply did the best he could with the hand he was dealt with. 





> This impression that it didn't 'last long' is only because Jason came across few enemies from the Prince of Gotham arc that weren't 'All Caste Assassins' (though I'm not sure why them being assassins makes taking their lives any better. Limiting or not it's still a lethal act), and then after there was the Outlaw arc which is one of the few arcs that gave a halfway decent explanation for Jason refusing to kill, since he wanted to be a role model for his students and not resort to killing as eagerly as they did. Also again, this 'didn't last long' statement doesn't add up since Jason attempted to kill several clown henchmen just 2 issues ago, in rhato rebirth issue 48. He even acts like a smart ass about it since he promised Bruce he wouldn't shoot and kill (he mentions the rubber bullets in the issue since it's 'Bruces' city) but decides he can simply let them perish in the building explosion as a loop hole. So far, he still seems to be fine with killing.


Is not being assassins what matters here, is the fact that *they're magical beings and not simple humans*. Jason wanting to be a good role model is also something that had been established previously during RHA with Duela, so again, the characterization is consistent. And lastly, Bruce has used similar loopholes in the past so is not surprising for Jason to use them too.




> I doubt that considering what just happened only two issues ago, but mainly, I would like to point out this interview which is what I was referring to with the editorial change in approach to Red Hood. So, yeah, it wasn't intentional, at least not by the writer. Jason all of a sudden abiding by Bruces rules even _outside_ of Gotham and away from bats was an editorial decision. As I already stated, the exact kind of decision that I hope does not make a return. Jason should be lethal when he needs to be.


Lobdell had a lot of plans and ideas for stories that never materialized for one reason or another, so is pointless to dwell on them, what matters is what made to print, and that shows that Jason simply doesn't kill people in the regular anymore, and when he does is only in straight self-defense, to protect the people closest to him or against non-human threats. All of which has been present in series since the start.


EDIT: 

Oh and heads up, DITF has leaked online.

----------


## RedBird

> I'm not saying that he doesn't kill, but that he doesn't kill *regularly*, small but significant difference.


That was MY POINT exactly. *I* never stated that Jason killed regularly to begin with, just that he does in fact, kill.



> The Talon was unlivin and Plytus was an alien. See my post again, Jason's vow to not kill only applies to humans. Aliens and mystical/magical beinngs are fair game, an attitude that some writers have had Bruce sharing. 
> 
> I don't counted the Eternals because Jason was awfully mishandled and written OOC of character there to begin with, so those stories only serve as an example of how to *not write* a connected Batfamily. Issue 48 of the second Volume of RHATO is the only time Lobdell himself has explicitly stated that Jason was using rubber bullets.
> 
> Again, because the priority was set the stage for King's story with no care of what writers of the extended Batfamily books had planned for their series. Lobdell simply did the best he could with the hand he was dealt with. 
> 
> Is not being assassins what matters here, is the fact that *they're magical beings and not simple humans*. Jason wanting to be a good role model is also something that had been established previously during RHA with Duela, so again, the characterization is consistent. And lastly, Bruce has used similar loopholes in the past so is not surprising for Jason to use them too.
> 
> Lobdell had a lot of plans and ideas for stories that never materialized for one reason or another, so is pointless to dwell on them, what matters is what made to print, and that shows that Jason simply doesn't kill people in the regular anymore, and when he does is only in straight self-defense, to protect the people closest to him or against non-human threats. All of which has been present in series since the start.


All this is, is either stating what has been already said, or splitting hairs as to what counts as killing, and when content shouldn't count, because you determine it to be OOC. That wasn't what my original post was about, neither was it about 'dwelling' on what plans or ideas were for Lobdells stories. All that is irrelevant.

My entire point from my _first post_, and the point I have been reiterating, was that in new52, Jason killed. Period. 
Whether or not it is in self defence, or to protect loved ones, is not what I was stating. 
The reason is not relevant. The relevant part was that during the new52, he did in fact, kill, when he needed to. Unlike Batman.
It was never treated with as much regression as it was in rhato rebirth. It was an accepted fact. Jason had been slowly included in the batfamily all throughout the new52, whilst still killing _when he needed to_. 
Where as in rhato rebirth, all of a sudden Jason could not kill AT ALL, under any circumstances, even in self defence, and still remain part of the batfamily. That was a distinct change. A distinct editorial change, as I mentioned. It's not about dwelling on the change that occurred, but about hoping that history doesn't repeat itself.

And IF Jason is to be included in more batfamily content in the future, I hope it doesn't mean that he will have to be _again_ restricted to non lethal means for any and every situation as he was in rhato rebirth 1-25.
Jason should still be lethal when/if he needs to be.




> EDIT: 
> 
> Oh and heads up, DITF has leaked online.


That explains a few comments I've been seeing. Thanks for the heads up.

----------


## RedBird

Also, going way back to the topic of the Gotham Knights game, and content we'd like to see.
Along with NPCs roaming around the city, let there also be dogs and cats in Gotham as well. 
And let us pet them.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> That was MY POINT exactly. *I* never stated that Jason killed regularly to begin with, just that he does in fact, kill.
> 
> 
> All this is, is either stating what has been already said, or splitting hairs as to what counts as killing, and when content shouldn't count, because you determine it to be OOC. That wasn't what my original post was about, neither was it about 'dwelling' on what plans or ideas were for Lobdells stories. All that is irrelevant.
> 
> My entire point from my _first post_, and the point I have been reiterating, was that in new52, Jason killed. Period. 
> Whether or not it is in self defence, or to protect loved ones, is not what I was stating. 
> The reason is not relevant. The relevant part was that during the new52, he did in fact, kill, when he needed to. Unlike Batman.
> It was never treated with as much regression as it was in rhato rebirth. It was an accepted fact. Jason had been slowly included in the batfamily all throughout the new52, whilst still killing _when he needed to_. 
> ...


Jason not killing during Rebirth was an explicit plot point, so yeah, if Jason is to remain in Gotham and be closer to the Batfamily, that will be his status quo (See at Gotham Knights) since otherwise, it will cause the entire setting to unravel itself. Especially in light of characters like Clownhunter around.

And I elaborated upon because in your original post it came off as you having the idea that Jason killing was both his only response to bad guys and an integral part of his character, something that it hasn't been true for a long while.

----------


## RedBird

> Jason not killing during Rebirth was an explicit plot point, so yeah, if Jason is to remain in Gotham and be closer to the Batfamily, that will be his status quo (See at Gotham Knights) since otherwise, it will cause the entire setting to unravel itself. Especially in light of characters like Clownhunter around.
> 
> And I elaborated upon because in your original post it came off as you having the idea that Jason killing was both his only response to bad guys and an integral part of his character, something that it hasn't been true for a long while.


Being included in the Batfamily and physically remaining in Gotham are two separate things. 
Jason not usually killing whilst in Gotham has been established since new52.
Rhato Rebirth had it so Jason could not kill even _outside_ of Gotham and away from any Bats. _That_ is an aspect of rebirth that I distinctly do not want returning, Jason being non lethal in any and every situation even outside of Gotham.

As I said before, one off stories like Batman Gotham Knights are fine here and there. But if Jason being included in the Batfamily in the future means he will literally be rubbing shoulders with them and having to remain in Gotham 24/7? Then I can't say I'm looking forward to more of Red Hood on a constant leash.




> And I elaborated upon because in your original post it came off as you having the idea that Jason killing was both his only response to bad guys and an integral part of his character, something that it hasn't been true for a long while.


And again, to be clear, I never said that killing was Jasons _only_ response. This is completely misconstruing my original post.
It's part of the reason why I linked that interview and specific quote about Jason not killing every bad guy he comes across, and only killing when he had to. I completely agree with that approach to the character.

----------


## CTTT

anyone find it ironically funny that Jason became more popular as Red Hood than Robin?  And that the qualities that they didn't like when he had the Robin mantle they like in Red Hood?  Kind of a shame that he didn't work out as Robin and that the classic costume got retired too.

----------


## Konja7

> anyone find it ironically funny that Jason became more popular as Red Hood than Robin?  And that the qualities that they didn't like when he had the Robin mantle they like in Red Hood?  Kind of a shame that he didn't work out as Robin and that the classic costume got retired too.


I've understood Jason didn't usually have the popular "Red Hood qualities" when he was Robin.

During his time as Robin, I read these qualitites only appear near to his death (to put the blame of his own death on Jason).

----------


## AmiMizuno

I'm hoping that Artemis and Jason do become a thing. It becomes awesome to see the Batfam actually get to appear in let's say a Wonder Woman book. Since Artemis is friends with Diana

----------


## Jackalope89

> I'm hoping that Artemis and Jason do become a thing. It becomes awesome to see the Batfam actually get to appear in let's say a Wonder Woman book. Since Artemis is friends with Diana


For Lobdell's faults with other series, he did good with Jason. Especially with bringing in Biz and Artemis in for the Rebirth Outlaws. The fiery Amazon, the clone with a heart of gold, and the blackest of sheep. Really hoping they reunite again in the future too.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

There are new scenes in the UTRH recap but Red Hood Jason is being voiced by the same guy that is voicing Teenager Jason. He might fit for a younger Jason but it does not fit him for Red Hood.

----------


## RedBird

> There are new scenes in the UTRH recap but Red Hood Jason is being voiced by the same guy that is voicing Teenager Jason. He might fit for a younger Jason but it does not fit him for Red Hood.


Yeah, it is slightly jarring. Hopefully it's only for a few soundbites the film may have required here and there for some extra scenes, like the grunts and small snippets of dialogue as seen in this clip, instead of them redubbing Red Hood Jason for the entire default 'Under the Red Hood' option of the DITF film. As far as I can tell the Red Robin and Hush route make sense with a younger Jason, not so much the Red Hood route.

----------


## Vakanai

> anyone find it ironically funny that Jason became more popular as Red Hood than Robin?  And that the qualities that they didn't like when he had the Robin mantle they like in Red Hood?  Kind of a shame that he didn't work out as Robin and that the classic costume got retired too.


Eh, I'm no fan of the classic Robin costume. It had not aged well. The green scaled bikini bottom and bare legs look on a teenage boy, just why was that ever a thing?

----------


## Vakanai

> There are new scenes in the UTRH recap but Red Hood Jason is being voiced by the same guy that is voicing Teenager Jason. He might fit for a younger Jason but it does not fit him for Red Hood.


Glad to see we're getting new and different fight scenes for the Red Hood route and not just rehashing the previous movie. Makes it more interesting.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Glad to see we're getting new and different fight scenes for the Red Hood route and not just rehashing the previous movie. Makes it more interesting.


The lack of Jensen Ackles as Jason though is saddening.

----------


## Vakanai

> The lack of Jensen Ackles as Jason though is saddening.


Eh, it is what it is. As long as everything else is good, I'm not going to get hung up on one voice.

----------


## Sergard

It's really not possible to avoid spoilers for the DitF movie on social media - and I've already seen fanarts too.
But I still don't know how many endings exist.

----------


## Aahz

Is it allready out?

In my country I have to wait till the end of October.

----------


## Sergard

> Is it allready out?
> 
> In my country I have to wait till the end of October.


No, it's not officially out. Amazon states the official release for October 13.




> I'm hoping that Artemis and Jason do become a thing. It becomes awesome to see the Batfam actually get to appear in let's say a Wonder Woman book. Since Artemis is friends with Diana


Artemis and Bizarro are the only good thing about the DC universe.

Aside from those two characters, I still think it would be better for Jason as a character if DC would retcon him (and characters like Ma Gunn, Willis Todd, the All-Caste, Su sisters, Crux, Generation Outlaw) out of main-continuity and recreate his character in a new universe. Keep him as an "orphaned" street kid, give him a new mentor and murderer, keep his resurrection a mystery, introduce the All-Caste, recreate the Under the Red Hood story line and then deal with Jason's redemption and recovery story.

And yes, I know that this is radical.

----------


## Rise

This is beyond radical. You are pretty much asking to reboot him completely and turn him into a different character to the point that I wonder why would you even call him Jason Todd and not make a new character instead. 

Jason is fine and he certainly not a mess in need of reboot. He just need a fresh blood who would do something interesting with him. It's really that simple.

----------


## Sergard

> This is beyond radical. You are pretty much asking to reboot him completely and turn him into a different character to the point that I wonder why would you even call him Jason Todd and not make a new character instead. 
> 
> Jason is fine and he certainly not a mess in need of reboot. He just need a fresh blood who would do something interesting with him. It's really that simple.


I don't see how this would turn him into a different character. All the impulses would still be there - his biological parents, his life on the streets, a mentor, his torture, death and resurrection, etc. You'd still have the same personality in the end. If said mentor is a furry or not, if Jason's sidekick identity is called Robin or not  and if said murderer is a clown or not is completely irrelevant.

What would really be the big loss?

Jason is fine - but everything around him is a mess, especially the batfamily but also larger parts of the DC universe. 

In my eyes, Jason needs more than a fresh blood who does something interesting with him. This fresh blood also needs DC editors to allow them to write their take on the character without interruptions by other writers - be it events or to a lesser extent contradicting or unfavorable guest appearances in other titles. Stuff that, by default, wouldn't happen with Jason in his own universe, and will - without a shadow of a doubt - happen again in main-continuity.

----------


## Konja7

> This is beyond radical. You are pretty much asking to reboot him completely and turn him into a different character to the point that I wonder why would you even call him Jason Todd and not make a new character instead. 
> 
> Jason is fine and he certainly not a mess in need of reboot. He just need a fresh blood who would do something interesting with him. It's really that simple.


To be fair, characters like Ma Gunn, Willis Todd, the All-Caste, Su sisters, Crux, Generation Outlaw will likely be forgotten for new writers. Or even retconned when DC wants to tell Jason's origin again. 

Not just because DC seems to want to ignore Lobdell's work in general, but new writers usually don't use ideas of previous writers. 

However, Jason being Robin and his mentor being Batman won't change. All the drama around Jason's strained relationship with Bruce is one of the reason why Jason is so popular. 


I wonder if Jason will mantain his solo. DC is suffering from many changes, we don't even exactly know what will happen in January (and the Future State event). Also, it is possible many things change in March. 

To be clear, Jason won't be in the limbo, since he is pretty popular, but it is possible he ended up in a Batfamily book (or something like that).

----------


## Zaresh

> I don't see how this would turn him into a different character. All the impulses would still be there - his biological parents, his life on the streets, a mentor, his torture, death and resurrection, etc. You'd still have the same personality in the end. If said mentor is a furry or not, if Jason's sidekick identity is called Robin or not  and if said murderer is a clown or not is completely irrelevant.
> 
> What would really be the big loss?
> 
> Jason is fine - but everything around him is a mess, especially the batfamily but also larger parts of the DC universe. 
> 
> In my eyes, Jason needs more than a fresh blood who does something interesting with him. This fresh blood also needs DC editors to allow them to write their take on the character without interruptions by other writers - be it events or to a lesser extent contradicting or unfavorable guest appearances in other titles. Stuff that, by default, wouldn't happen with Jason in his own universe, and will - without a shadow of a doubt - happen again in main-continuity.


I have to agree with Rise. If you strip Jason off all his story and links with the Batman, you may as well write a straight new different character with a different name as well. You're basically erasing his whole history. It's not much different than transform him into a new character with different personality and the same name, which is more or less what Morrison did, and why I always complain about him not straight creating a new character for what he used Jason there.

I mean, it's a matter of opinions and likes and dislikes (edit: I'm not implying that my opinion is a fact, or anything like that). I do think the batfam needs a deep reform and working out what they want to do with their characters and how to treat every one of them. But, for me, too, this is beyond radical. This is straight creating a new character. And if you want to cut any tie with Batman, you need to create and write him under another publisher; because as long as Batman is the de facto center piece of the DC (and he is) everyone who becomes remotely popular is going to be tied to him eventually.

In fact, many characters can use that Batman popularity to boost their own. Look and Deathstroke. He was an already popular character, but now that he's tied to Batman? He's even more. It's unfair, but as long as they're written in DC, is what's going to happen.

That being said, if you people know of a story and character like Jason Todd outside DC, I'd love to know about them. I've got a soft spot for that stuff, as you probably know already, and am always open to try new reads.

Edit: if we are going to do teams with the bats, I want him with Kate or Tim. Or even both. I think their dynamic could work pretty well if they're written as they should.

Edit: btw, I'm actually looking forward to what they're going to do with the new writer. Also, I don't think the Lobdell era is going to be forgotten: he brought in a lot of elements that fans like, even when they disliked some others. I know of a few new readers that got to know about Jason as his own character outside his story with Bruce as an antagonist that actually liked him here despite being indifferent to him before. And the Gotham Knights game info teased that they may use some elements from his background with the All-Caste... or something mystical, or magical. So, yeah: I don't think it's not going to fade soon. Not to mention that Artemis is now linked to him and it's not a small piece of his whole editorial history now.

----------


## Zaresh

Chris Samnee posted this pretty picture in his inktober batman themed thread, in twitter. I think you guys may like it  :Cool: .

Ej-1kUaXkAAJFwB.jpg

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I don't see how this would turn him into a different character. All the impulses would still be there - his biological parents, his life on the streets, a mentor, his torture, death and resurrection, etc. You'd still have the same personality in the end. *If said mentor is a furry or not, if Jason's sidekick identity is called Robin or not  and if said murderer is a clown or not is completely irrelevant.*
> 
> What would really be the big loss?
> 
> Jason is fine - but everything around him is a mess, especially the batfamily but also larger parts of the DC universe. 
> 
> In my eyes, Jason needs more than a fresh blood who does something interesting with him. This fresh blood also needs DC editors to allow them to write their take on the character without interruptions by other writers - be it events or to a lesser extent contradicting or unfavorable guest appearances in other titles. Stuff that, by default, wouldn't happen with Jason in his own universe, and will - without a shadow of a doubt - happen again in main-continuity.


It wouldn't be Jason anymore. For better or worse, what makes Jason, well, Jason, are his connections with Batman and how those helped him to shape into something new that is not just a lite Dick Grayson nor an angrier Bruce. Jason is the sum of its parts, take one away and then he wouldn't be Jason anymore. 

What you're proposing is a fanfiction character that is ripping Jason off by being similar, but not the same.

----------


## Sergard

> I have to agree with Rise. If you strip Jason off all his story and links with the Batman, you may as well write a straight new different character with a different name as well. You're basically erasing his whole history. It's not much different than transform him into a new character with different personality and the same name, which is more or less what Morrison did, and why I always complain about him not straight creating a new character for what he used Jason there.


I don't want to sound cheeky but Morrison wouldn't have happened if Jason had his own universe  :Wink:  (Or Battle for the Cowl for that matter and some other stuff that I'd rather forget.)
It also wouldn't be the first version of Jason that didn't meet Bruce. It's rare but neither Father Todd from the Flashpoint universe, nor Jason from Gotham City Garage ever met Batman. Bombshells Jason met Batwoman instead of Batman (I'm not sure if Batman even exists in that universe). 

I don't think it would erase Jason's whole history by exchanging some people (mainly Bruce and Joker because Jason doesn't have any deep/consistent relationships with anyone else in the batfamily - so what does it matter if those characters exist or not?) with new characters who fulfill the same purpose - but better because there's only one writer (at a time) for all of them. One of the biggest problems with DC is that too many writers write the same character. Too many cooks spoil the broth. Too many writers ruin the character/universe. It's already hard to find organic stories and character relationships in the DC universe but Batman especially doesn't really feel like a character anymore but more like an empty vessel for whatever kind of story/personality the writer wants to create.




> I mean, it's a matter of opinions and likes and dislikes (edit: I'm not implying that my opinion is a fact, or anything like that). I do think the batfam needs a deep reform and working out what they want to do with their characters and how to treat every one of them. But, for me, too, this is beyond radical. This is straight creating a new character. And if you want to cut any tie with Batman, you need to create and write him under another publisher; because as long as Batman is the de facto center piece of the DC (and he is) everyone who becomes remotely popular is going to be tied to him eventually.


To be honest, I don't think this deep reform is ever going to happen. As far as I see (and I think you'll agree), DC stories are strongly influenced by character popularity and writers pushing their personal favorites (sometimes at the expense of other characters). This is just one more reason why it's so hard to find good stories and why I don't normally look forward to batfamily stuff.

Most remotely popular characters aren't really tied to him though. Sure, most characters meet and team-up with Batman (or fight him) at some point but that's something else than having Batman as a "father" figure.




> In fact, many characters can use that Batman popularity to boost their own. Look and Deathstroke. He was an already popular character, but now that he's tied to Batman? He's even more. It's unfair, but as long as they're written in DC, is what's going to happen.


I'm more interested in good stories than popularity. There are many good DC stories that sold low - and there are many bad DC stories that sold high.
I also don't consider Deathstroke tied to Batman. Although I do believe it is better for Deathstroke as a character to have confrontations with Batman than with Teen Titans or Titans. It's just weird seeing such an old guy fighting kids, teenagers and young adults. But that's a different topic.

----------


## Zaresh

> I don't want to sound cheeky but Morrison wouldn't have happened if Jason had his own universe  (Or Battle for the Cowl for that matter and some other stuff that I'd rather forget.)
> It also wouldn't be the first version of Jason that didn't meet Bruce. It's rare but neither Father Todd from the Flashpoint universe, nor Jason from Gotham City Garage ever met Batman. Bombshells Jason met Batwoman instead of Batman (I'm not sure if Batman even exists in that universe). 
> 
> I don't think it would erase Jason's whole history by exchanging some people (mainly Bruce and Joker because Jason doesn't have any deep/consistent relationships with anyone else in the batfamily - so what does it matter if those characters exist or not?) with new characters who fulfill the same purpose - but better because there's only one writer (at a time) for all of them. One of the biggest problems with DC is that too many writers write the same character. Too many cooks spoil the broth. Too many writers ruin the character/universe. It's already hard to find organic stories and character relationships in the DC universe but Batman especially doesn't really feel like a character anymore but more like an empty vessel for whatever kind of story/personality the writer wants to create.


You change the mentor to Jason for a new character, it hurts Jason's whole drama. Few will care about Jason's origin story (this being since he stole the tyres to his death and resurrection) because few are going to be invested in the conflict with a brand new mentor that people know nothing about. And if you use another already known character, like Kate, you're going to have to change their story to fit Jason and his conflict there: no fan of this designated character will like it. You don't want the conflict there? Then you're changing Jason's whole origin, because there's conflict since the beginning of the post-crisis Jason in his story, conflict that helped shape him as we know him now (and shape how we feel about him). It works in an elseworld, because those are new characters, with new backgrounds, sometimes new personalities, and there are no expectations (which is wonderful, a reason why elseworld are great). They retain certain traits, a feel that makes us recognize them: but they're new. Father Todd isn't Jason, it's a big what if, or more like a nod actually: his story, his strugglings, his personality are most probably different. Maybe not radically, but different (we didn't see much of him really: it was more like a cameo). Bombshells Jason worked, because it was adapting his whole background and origin to a new elseworld with different players and elements in the story (he really was Jason); but it wouldn't work in the main universe because those characters are tied to their own backgrounds, their stories and expectations. It would be like forcing a character that doesn't belong in a fandom to belong in that fandom. Kind of like what they did with Harley Queen in the Birds of Prey movie

Mmm... What makes Jason, Jason? He was the sidekick of a bigger-than-life vigilante-hero, who died and came back, and now he's an anti-hero that is willed to cross certain lines, his own man with his own set of rules and moral code. That defines Jason; but that could describe other characters. Bucky in Marvel, for example (if we're a bit too loose with the death bit. Well, technically, Bucky has died now again. Whatever. Events, cubes...). You let out the batman ties entirely? You need to tie him to another big, famous mentor figure (in the DCU) to work (in the DCU). Edit: A reason why the people that were drawn to his life, like Talia and the League, and with them the All-Caste, ended meeting him. Why would Talia be interested in (for example) The Question's dead sidekick? Who would kill Jason that would drive Jason to a psychotic break like the one that he had in his way to and during Under the Hood? Mmm, it could work, maybe, but... Tough fit.




> To be honest, I don't think this deep reform is ever going to happen. As far as I see (and I think you'll agree), DC stories are strongly influenced by character popularity and writers pushing their personal favorites (sometimes at the expense of other characters). This is just one more reason why it's so hard to find good stories and why I don't normally look forward to batfamily stuff.
> 
> Most remotely popular characters aren't really tied to him though. Sure, most characters meet and team-up with Batman (or fight him) at some point but that's something else than having Batman as a "father" figure.
> 
> I'm more interested in good stories than popularity. There are many good DC stories that sold low - and there are many bad DC stories that sold high.
> I also don't consider Deathstroke tied to Batman. Although I do believe it is better for Deathstroke as a character to have confrontations with Batman than with Teen Titans or Titans. It's just weird seeing such an old guy fighting kids, teenagers and young adults. But that's a different topic.


Most popular characters are tied to him now. Superman? Bruce is his best pal (this one was the first, long, long ago, when he was the bigger of the two). And Wonder Woman is his best femfriend. Harley? She's all rooting for Batman and is everywhere; even as an ally. Joker is his main villain. Flash, or Barry, has been tied to Bruce personal life now by way of Flashpoint Thomas' Batman. Now even the lanterns had used Batman in their stories, when the lantern part of the DCU is one of the most isolated parts of the DCU besides all the Aquaman stuff (and the Marvel fam). But Aquaman and Cap Marvel aren't popular. I guess Green Arrow is still safe.

And now Deathstroke, a classic Titan's villain, is always presented as a batman rogue. A Batman Rogue. Every time. Probably why he appeared, in the Arkham Knight game, for example. And he's popular again. It's bullcrap, but it is happening.

Good stories is what we all want, but when we're also lucky, good stories also become popular, and that means eventually tieing them to Batman. And if we're not lucky and they don't become popular, they die soon and we can't read more of them. It's a monkey's paw.

Unless we get our stuff together and start treating the characters in this franchise with some coherence, and stop using them as foil to others, dismissing what's being done in those character's own books and stories, and with some direction to follow (because it's not fun when your character makes you break your neck every time you read him in a different book).

Peoples of DC, please, just write stories with Jason and let him life his own stories. I don't mind if you make him meet other bats, or work with them, or even the Bat, briefly. Just let them be Jason's stories deep down, about Jason or about the people he crosses his path with. Also, please, no more Joker, or Ra's: I'm tired of Ra's too.

----------


## OpaqueGiraffe17

they really should think about giving Jason some kind of disfigurement/scar along with that Rogue hairdo since other media likes to do some variation of it, not every Robin needs to be pretty.
DBD31E70-15A1-4866-BF3C-BC0119E432E2.jpg

----------


## Konja7

> they really should think about giving Jason some kind of disfigurement/scar along with that Rogue hairdo since other media likes to do some variation of it, not every Robin needs to be pretty.
> DBD31E70-15A1-4866-BF3C-BC0119E432E2.jpg


I like Jason to be pretty. 

I don't really think Jason needs a notable scar.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> they really should think about giving Jason some kind of disfigurement/scar along with that Rogue hairdo since other media likes to do some variation of it, not every Robin needs to be pretty.
> DBD31E70-15A1-4866-BF3C-BC0119E432E2.jpg


Ew. No way. If anything, Jason is the one Bat that is justified to not have any scars due to his experience with the Lazarus Pit. 

Besides, giving notorious scar or a disfigurement to the one Robin that comes from the streets and is widely considered as the "black sheep" creates some very unflattering implications.

You know, like how in two of your three examples Jason is a psychotic villain/murderer.

----------


## OpaqueGiraffe17

> Ew. No way. If anything, Jason is the one Bat that is justified to not have any scars due to his experience with the Lazarus Pit. 
> 
> Besides, giving notorious scar or a disfigurement to the one Robin that comes from the streets and is widely considered as the "black sheep" creates some very unflattering implications.
> 
> You know, like how in two of your three examples Jason is a psychotic villain/murderer.


fair enough, maybe it's just the Zuko fan in me, particularly that Hush one, lol  :Smile:

----------


## Zaresh

> they really should think about giving Jason some kind of disfigurement/scar along with that Rogue hairdo since other media likes to do some variation of it, not every Robin needs to be pretty.
> DBD31E70-15A1-4866-BF3C-BC0119E432E2.jpg


Eh, I pass. Too grim, unnecessary, and then, what's the story behind it? A noticeable scar need it's story behind. If not... well... it comes across as vain for me, at least. It's why it worked in AK, for example. But, in the current DCU? Meh.

Also, I like Jason to be kind of pretty, too. Maybe not a pretty boy like Dick or Tim, but certainly handsome. I'm just that... vain xD.

Now, we could give him a new one in current time, but it needs a story that works the mark. But with medicine and  him being a vigilante and that all? Logic dictates he would pass through surgery to fix whatever he does if it's visible enough. It's the most practical for him.

----------


## Sergard

> they really should think about giving Jason some kind of disfigurement/scar along with that Rogue hairdo since other media likes to do some variation of it, not every Robin needs to be pretty.


Then DC should take one of the other Robins.
Jason has already enough baggage to carry.

And just to be clear, I don't mind versions of Jason with a scar like seen above. I even still consider all three of them handsome.
But these are their own versions - the same way as Jason in current continuity is his own version. I'm against mixing things up.

I'm also against changing things about Jason because some batfamily members look too similar. That's not a good reason, especially since Jason is the character with the least interactions with other batfamily members. If you really want more distinct looking Robins in order to keep them apart, then DC should change something about Dick or Tim.

----------


## Vakanai

> they really should think about giving Jason some kind of disfigurement/scar along with that Rogue hairdo since other media likes to do some variation of it, not every Robin needs to be pretty.
> DBD31E70-15A1-4866-BF3C-BC0119E432E2.jpg


Where's the 2D/cartoon pic from?

----------


## Zaresh

> Then DC should take one of the other Robins.
> Jason has already enough baggage to carry.
> 
> And just to be clear, I don't mind versions of Jason with a scar like seen above. I even still consider all three of them handsome.
> But these are their own versions - the same way as Jason in current continuity is his own version. I'm against mixing things up.
> 
> I'm also against changing things about Jason because some batfamily members look too similar. That's not a good reason, especially since Jason is the character with the least interactions with other batfamily members. If you really want more distinct looking Robins in order to keep them apart, then DC should change something about Dick or Tim.


Didn't Tim have scars in his head at some point? Burns, if I recall, in his nape? Or maybe I'm mixing stuff, as usual.

----------


## Jackalope89

> they really should think about giving Jason some kind of disfigurement/scar along with that Rogue hairdo since other media likes to do some variation of it, not every Robin needs to be pretty.
> Attachment 101354


Doesn't really fly with the Lazarus Pit though. As one of the things that does, is heal wounds.

----------


## Sergard

> Where's the 2D/cartoon pic from?


Batman: Death in the family movie.

----------


## Konja7

> Didn't Tim have scars in his head at some point? Burns, if I recall, in his nape? Or maybe I'm mixing stuff, as usual.


It is implied all the Batfamily members have many scars that aren't noticeable by the reader. These will only appear when a writer wants a story around that.

This aspect is mentioned in Three Joker, where it seems Jason still has his scars from Joker attack.

----------


## Vakanai

> Batman: Death in the family movie.


I thought that wasn't out yet?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> This aspect is mentioned in Three Joker, where it seems Jason still has his scars from Joker attack.


Something that only makes sense if Jason never died in Ethiopia since as it has been pointed out already, resurrecting him through the pit would've healed those scars.

----------


## Konja7

> Something that only makes sense if Jason never died in Ethiopia since as it has been pointed out already, resurrecting him through the pit would've healed those scars.


I suspect most writers don't remember or know that aspect (where it was said?)

They usually know Jason resurrected through Lazarus pit, but this erasing his scars is likely something they don't pay enough attention.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I suspect most writers don't remember or know that aspect (where it was said?)


You kidding right? The pits healing powers are literally the reason they're often used as Plot Devices to bring people back or cure potentially lethal/crippling injuries. 

If you want a more specific example though, Nygma used a pit to cure his brain cancer during Hush, and in Legends of the Gotham Knights Bane used one to "clean his slate" so to speak, and cure his addiction to venom and all the side effects from its use.

----------


## Konja7

> You kidding right? The pits healing powers are literally the reason they're often used as Plot Devices to bring people back or cure potentially lethal/crippling injuries. 
> 
> If you want a more specific example though, Nygma used a pit to cure his brain cancer during Hush, and in Legends of the Gotham Knights Bane used one to "clean his slate" so to speak, and cure his addiction to venom and all the side effects from its use.


I know the healing powers of Lazarus Pit. That doesn't mean the writers don't put the rules they want

It is pretty easy to say the Lazarus Pit resurrected Death people, but doesn't erase scars. It would be dumb, but not really impossible. 

That's why I want to know if it's directly mentioned the scars of Jason were erased.

----------


## redmax99

> I know the healing powers of Lazarus Pit. That doesn't mean the writers don't put the rules they want
> 
> It is pretty easy to say the Lazarus Pit resurrected Death people, but doesn't erase scars. It would be dumb, but not really impossible. 
> 
> That's why I want to know if it's directly mentioned the scars of Jason were erased.


it doesn't have to mention the scars from jason being erase when bruce and ras scars were erase heck it turn back the hands of time for ras. 

excusing johns way of using the pit would be wrong he's been working for dc almost 30 years he know's the way the pit work so does tomasi, morrison, and half the writers who been their since the early 00's. this is just john telling everyone i know the prime punch was stupid and here's an another  idea.

----------


## Sergard

> [..].
> 
> Edit: if we are going to do teams with the bats, I want him with Kate or Tim. Or even both. I think their dynamic could work pretty well *if they're written as they should*.
> 
> Edit: btw, I'm actually looking forward to what they're going to do with the new writer. Also, I don't think the Lobdell era is going to be forgotten: he brought in a lot of elements that fans like, even when they disliked some others. I know of a few new readers that got to know about Jason as his own character outside his story with Bruce as an antagonist that actually liked him here despite being indifferent to him before. And the Gotham Knights game info teased that they may use some elements from his background with the All-Caste... or something mystical, or magical. So, yeah: I don't think it's not going to fade soon. Not to mention that Artemis is now linked to him and it's not a small piece of his whole editorial history now.


And how are Kate and Tim supposed to be written?

I feel like Kate has the same problem as Jason - she just needs a good writer and adventures that are completely independent from the batfamily. She already has enough supporting cast and her own distinct themes - military and international terrorism combined with spooky/occult stuff; and being a homosexual woman obviously plays a part too. Kate already has a great foundation for writers to build on.

Tim is a little bit more difficult. Opinions on what should be done with him are very mixed. He still has the potential to be transformed in something very unique and exciting though. At least in my eyes, Tim is - theoretically - in a better place than Dick and Damian.

----------


## Zaresh

> And how are Kate and Tim supposed to be written?
> 
> I feel like Kate has the same problem as Jason - she just needs a good writer and adventures that are completely independent from the batfamily. She already has enough supporting cast and her own distinct themes - military and international terrorism combined with spooky/occult stuff; and being a homosexual woman obviously plays a part too. Kate already has a great foundation for writers to build on.
> 
> Tim is a little bit more difficult. Opinions on what should be done with him are very mixed. He still has the potential to be transformed in something very unique and exciting though. At least in my eyes, Tim is - theoretically - in a better place than Dick and Damian.


Tim, I have an idea about him already. He's an idealist to his bone, but also incredible pragmatic: which means he can play dirty, he will play dirty, and he will get dirty (as much as he can without crossing certain lines himself). He's not likely to show moral superiority about others, but he's also going to call things by their names with no qualms about it. He's smart, and he knows that he's smart; but he's also aware that there're things he doesn't know. He has a controlling streak: which means he can also manipulate others fine if he thinks it's what will bring the better outcome of a plan. And he comes across me like one of those people that can honestly forgive (comes from his need to understand stuff) but doesn't forget (and will take into account the chances. And, yeah, he can be resentful). Seems to be able to obsess to the point of driving himself to a wall, too. He seems like a nice guy (he seems to be nicer than Dick, to be honest), but he also seems to be, much like Jason, one who you would better not piss of or hurt, because he knows where to strike hard and how to do so.

This is how I saw him by reading Young Justice, Red Robin and a few Tec/Batman/Robin issues (certain stories). Old comics most of them at this point, I guess. I'm not an expert, but I see him this way.

Which is why, at this point, I think he offers the better dynamic with Jason. They seem to share traits, but also strong differences. I know less about Kate, but she seems to have some traits, different ones, that would make for an enjoyable dynamic with Jason too. For as little as I read about her, she reminds me a little of Bruce in TAS; a less stoic, more talkative and brash Bruce, but she does give certain vibe

----------


## Jackalope89

Kate actually is fairly stoic. She shares a lot of traits with Bruce like that. Though, she doesn't purposely throw family into danger/beat the tar out of them on a whim. So, she has that going for her.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

https://twitter.com/CroissantWren/st...11418856370176

----------


## Sergard

artist: karosake (follow link for versions of Dick, Tim and Damian)



artist: nockuth

_"Here's a preview of my page for @JaybirdZine
 !!
Pre-orders are now open at https://jaytheredbird.bigcartel.com"_




artist: Yaz

_"preview of my pages for @JaybirdZine

I joined at vol.1"_

----------


## Sergard

Zahui Patrick Nandor (follow the link/visit the profile for more pictures)

_"Badassery overload!!!

EXCLUSIVE BREAKING NEWS!!!!!

Collector @maweixiao4 has blessed me and my page exclusively with early sneak peeks at the UPCOMING @mcfarlane_toys_official DC Multiverse Red Hood & Nightwing two-pack!

And also many more!"_

----------


## RedBird

I can't believe we're going to have more rhato issues featuring the Mortal Kombat suit, instead of THIS suit.

I don't even dislike the MK gear at all, but I am still hoping to get back to rebirth suit asap, it was one of Jasons best looks by far.
Would also love to see it in black, like it is in this figure, rather than the more blueish/grey costume in early rebirth.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Zahui Patrick Nandor (follow the link/visit the profile for more pictures)
> 
> _"Badassery overload!!!
> 
> EXCLUSIVE BREAKING NEWS!!!!!
> 
> Collector @maweixiao4 has blessed me and my page exclusively with early sneak peeks at the UPCOMING @mcfarlane_toys_official DC Multiverse Red Hood & Nightwing two-pack!
> 
> And also many more!"_


Well, is definitely more detailed than the DC Direct version.

EDIT: Strange, that two-pack is not up for preorder yet in BBTS.

----------


## cc008

> I can't believe we're going to have more rhato issues featuring the Mortal Kombat suit, instead of THIS suit.
> 
> I don't even dislike the MK gear at all, but I am still hoping to get back to rebirth suit asap, it was one of Jasons best looks by far.
> Would also love to see it in black, like it is in this figure, rather than the more blueish/grey costume in early rebirth.


I like the MK gear.. because I'm of the school of thought that MK Ninjas are the only MK fighters that matter :P 

But I do prefer that suit lol.

----------


## Zaresh

So... I may be imagining things, but...

I think, the new batman in those books, is Jason.

I swear this is me imagining things most likely. Edtit: Yeah, it's not him.

But...

Edit: Teal eyes? And those eyes and face in one of the covers seem too young and hard to be Dick's. Too fair to be Damian...

I'm seeing things.

----------


## Drako

> So... I may be imagining things, but...
> 
> I think, the new batman in those books, is Jason.
> 
> I swear this is me imagining things most likely.
> 
> But...


It's not him.

Future State: Dark Detective #2 (Jan 26)

"Also in this issue, Jason Todd is a haunted man. He’s working a job he hates on the violent streets of Gotham City as a mask hunter for the Magistrate! He takes contracts to catch villains—or heroes—and brings them in alive—mostly. But when the Red Hood gang reemerges, Jason must solve a mystery that could doom the city.

----------


## Zaresh

> It's not him.
> 
> Future State: Dark Detective #2 (Jan 26)
> 
> "Also in this issue, Jason Todd is a haunted man. He’s working a job he hates on the violent streets of Gotham City as a mask hunter for the Magistrate! He takes contracts to catch villains—or heroes—and brings them in alive—mostly. But when the Red Hood gang reemerges, Jason must solve a mystery that could doom the city.


I know, it's just... it's some weird vibes it gives me. I hope he's not a bad guy in the end. I'm tired of this neverending chain of him being the one doing the bad choice always. So now he's the one hunting heroes: great. I bet he will be the only one, unlike in that Nightwing mini with Dick doing the "hunting".

----------


## Frontier



----------


## RedBird

> So... I may be imagining things, but...
> 
> I think, the new batman in those books, is Jason.
> 
> I swear this is me imagining things most likely. Yeah, it's not him.
> 
> But...
> 
> Teal eyes? And those eyes and face jn one of the covers seem too young and hard to be Dick's. Too fair to be Damian...
> ...


Of course not. Jason isn't allowed to be Batman, at least not a 'sane' or 'good' version.

Instead as Red Hood, he gets to be a mercenary working for the new villainous regime that every other Bat are fighting against.

...........yay..................

----------


## Zaresh

> Of course not. Jason isn't allowed to be Batman, at least not a 'sane' or 'good' version.
> 
> Instead as Red Hood, he gets to be a mercenary working for the new villainous regime that every other Bat are fighting against.
> 
> ...........yay..................


Yep,  joy....

Sigh.

It's just, why would he do that? Makes no sense.
No freaking sense.

I'm beyond pissed now, and the book isn't even out. It's really, really against what we know of his character. It better be a nobel price of a piece of fiction, because, I'm definitely a sceptic* with this one. And I liked Williamson's writing.o

----------


## Jackalope89

And just like that, everything Lobdell had built up gets tossed aside. Actually, this is worse. Jason now works for this "Magistrate" for no plausible reason!

----------


## RedBird

> Yep,  joy....
> 
> Sigh.
> 
> It's just, why would he do that? Makes no sense.
> No freaking sense.
> 
> I'm beyond pissed now, and the book isn't even out. It's really, really against what we know of his character. It better be a nobel price of a piece of fiction, because, I'm definitely an excepting with this one. And I liked Williamson's writing.


I'm so tired of DC.

Like....Of all characters, is Jason Todd, the bat that is resentful of authority in general, really seen as the one who would work for a villainous authoritarian regime?

----------


## Drako

Wally is also getting the short end of the stick in this. At least it's just a two month filler event.

----------


## Zaresh

> And just like that, everything Lobdell had built up gets tossed aside. Actually, this is worse. Jason now works for this "Magistrate" for no plausible reason!


You know what? From now on, I'm going to not buy anything main DCU related. The day they decide to not break freaking characterization and character development with these stupid events and what's not, and stop pissing me as a fan, I'll start buying again.

I guess 3 jokers trade and the last trade of rhato are the last books I will buy, unless things turn different that they look right now.

I can't believe they can't learn. This is not what the jason readers like about Jason, DC: get your stuff together.

Edit.




> Wally is also getting the short end of the stick in this. At least it's just a two month filler event.


Of course he is!
Just my luck.

Grrrrrr!

----------


## Jackalope89

Seriously, the one time it would seem like the situation would most benefit Jason's character, DC STILL finds a way to screw it up!

----------


## Nite-Wing

Hey this is just filler no big deal at all 
Its what comes after this that makes me worry about Jason's status 

All of this reminds me of future's end a big nothing burger filler event

----------


## redmax99

> I'm so tired of DC.
> 
> Like....Of all characters, is Jason Todd, the bat that is resentful of authority in general, really seen as the one who would work for a villainous authoritarian regime?


only if he was the leader or if taila or bruce was the lead  otherwise no.

----------


## RedBird

> Wally is also getting the short end of the stick in this. At least it's just a two month filler event.


Unfortunately, this decade has not been kind to Wally in general.

Filler aside though, it's still disappointing none the less. As a fan, you should be looking forward to these kinds of events, it's a new and exciting setting to see fan favourite characters tackle.
From the images and new character designs, there's almost a slight cyberpunk dystopian feel to everything, it's a cool new Gotham, with themes of pushing back against a big bad authority figure, and all the Bats are rising up and fighting back against an evil regime, Huzza...................Except of course the one bat you'd 100% expect to fight back against an unjust system.




> Hey this is just filler no big deal at all 
> Its what comes after this that makes me worry about Jason's status 
> 
> All of this reminds me of future's end a big nothing burger filler event


Short as this event is, problem is, it seems like every other Bat character is still, in-character. From solicitations, they still seem to be heroes and fighting for what is right. So far, this doesn't appear to be a 'bad' future in the sense that it has 'bad' or 'evil' versions of the characters, it's more so that the environment has just gone awry. Which means these versions of the character don't stray from their mainline counterparts.

So if DC are this tone deaf with Jasons characterisation and appeal as Red Hood, then it leaves me sceptical for whatever direction they may have planned for him in the future, if there even is one.




> Seriously, the one time it would seem like the situation would most benefit Jason's character, DC STILL finds a way to screw it up!


Exactly. A world where Jason could unleash his brand of justice against an powerful regime, but instead he's working for them. Talk about a missed opportunity.

----------


## cc008

> Hey this is just filler no big deal at all 
> Its what comes after this that makes me worry about Jason's status 
> 
> All of this reminds me of future's end a big nothing burger filler event


I'm still going to check it out. Worst case scenario, this is true. Best case scenario, everything isn't as it seems right now.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Okay, I just read all the info released about this Future State event. Twice because the press releases aren't very clear. 

First things first, is painfully obvious this is DC reworking the concept of 5G from the new status quo into a filler event _ala_ Convergence. Abernathy's words are a bit ambiguous at times but is stated no less than three times this is just a possible future. so for the time being we can rest easy a bit since this won't be Jason's status quo beyond those two months. 

Second, other than utterly awful costume, I don't thing the whole thing paints Jason in a very bad light. The solicits make clear he's a bounty hunter against his will, and given how evil the Magistrate is painted in the other books, it stands to reason that there's more than meets the eye. I don't like Williamson's writing that much but if there's something I can praise him for, is his commitment to keep things in continuity since it was a huge deal during his Flash run. So I very much doubt that all the hard work Lobdell did will be thrown away.

That said, I don't find this whole event really appealing but I'll pick up Dark Detective to see where this whole thing leads. It can't be worse than Three Jokers.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Okay, I just read all the info released about this Future State event. Twice because the press releases aren't very clear. 
> 
> First things first, is painfully obvious this is DC reworking the concept of 5G from the new status quo into a filler event _ala_ Convergence. Abernathy's words are a bit ambiguous at times but is stated no less than three times this is just a possible future. so for the time being we can rest easy a bit since this won't be Jason's status quo beyond those two months. 
> 
> Second, other than utterly awful costume, I don't thing the whole thing paints Jason in a very bad light. The solicits make clear he's a bounty hunter against his will, and given how evil the Magistrate is painted in the other books, it stands to reason that there's more than meets the eye. I don't like Williamson's writing that much but if there's something I can praise him for, is his commitment to keep things in continuity since it was a huge deal during his Flash run. So I very much doubt that all the hard work Lobdell did will be thrown away.
> 
> That said, I don't find this whole event really appealing but I'll pick up Dark Detective to see where this whole thing leads. *It can't be worse than Three Jokers.*


*sigh*
Murphy's Law.

----------


## Konja7

> Hey this is just filler no big deal at all 
> Its what comes after this that makes me worry about Jason's status 
> 
> All of this reminds me of future's end a big nothing burger filler event


I'm worried that Jason doesn't have a solo in this event (unlike Dick or Tim/Robin). He has only one story in an oversized comic. 

I'm worried about his solo.

----------


## RedBird

> Second, other than utterly awful costume, I don't thing the whole thing paints Jason in a very bad light. The solicits make clear he's a bounty hunter against his will, and given how evil the Magistrate is painted in the other books, it stands to reason that there's more than meets the eye. I don't like Williamson's writing that much but if there's something I can praise him for, is his commitment to keep things in continuity since it was a huge deal during his Flash run. So I very much doubt that all the hard work Lobdell did will be thrown away.
> 
> That said, I don't find this whole event really appealing but I'll pick up Dark Detective to see where this whole thing leads. It can't be worse than Three Jokers.


Regardless if it's actually against his will or not, (the solicit only states that he takes contracts and that he hates his job, not that it's necessarily against his will), this story for Red Hood just doesn't sound exciting in general. 
This would have been a neat world to unleash a more tactical version of Red Hood. Committing to his brand of justice whilst dodging an evil regime. 
Instead we're getting, this. Red Hood as a regimes lackey. From solicitations, it sounds kind of boring at best, and possibly OOC at worst.

Oh well, let us know if it turns out to be good.

----------


## RedBird

On a plus side, I'm already seeing fanart for Jasons future state look. Wow! Fans are quick.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

When you get down to the basics, Jason has never been anti-regime. He was only against Batman's approach to fighting crime since he believed Bruce failed to fully commit and that led to villains perpetuating their reign of terror over the innocent. From that angle, the idea of Jason working alongside a totalitarian regime that has pretty much a kill on sight order against anyone breaking the law isn't too far fetched. We also don't know the exact events that led to Bruce's disappearance and the Regime taking over, nor the exact circumstances that led to Jason working with the Magistrate in the first place. If the magistrate captured someone Jason holds dear, everything falls into place neatly since under Lobdell, Jason has always been one to risk everything for his friends and family. 

I don't see how doing a job your hate can mean you're making it willingly. Since the normal response to that is simply find a job you enjoy, unless circumstances force you to remain there, in real life that usually means good pay but in a bad future there must be more dramatic factors at play.

----------


## Zaresh

> Regardless if it's actually against his will or not, (the solicit only states that he takes contracts and that he hates his job, not that it's necessarily against his will), this story for Red Hood just doesn't sound exciting in general. 
> This would have been a neat world to unleash a more tactical version of Red Hood. Committing to his brand of justice whilst dodging an evil regime. 
> Instead we're getting, this. Red Hood as a regimes lackey. From solicitations, it sounds kind of boring at best, and possibly OOC at worst.
> 
> Oh well, let us know if it turns out to be good.


You guys are going to read it, right? I'll wait here with Red. See your opinions once it's released.

But to be honest, it could be worse than OOC: it could be actually against character.

I don't want to sound whinny, and I know I do sound whinny, but I also know that the track record isn't good and it's a very short event and his story is highly secondary. My hopes are dark, low and dirty, and my current mod mirrors it.

----------


## Zaresh

> When you get down to the basics, Jason has never been anti-regime. He was only against Batman's approach to fighting crime since he believed Bruce failed to fully commit and that led to villains perpetuating their reign of terror over the innocent. From that angle, the idea of Jason working alongside a totalitarian regime that has pretty much a kill on sight order against anyone breaking the law isn't too far fetched. We also don't know the exact events that led to Bruce's disappearance and the Regime taking over, nor the exact circumstances that led to Jason working with the Magistrate in the first place. If the magistrate captured someone Jason holds dear, everything falls into place neatly since under Lobdell, Jason has always been one to risk everything for his friends and family. 
> 
> I don't see how doing a job your hate can mean you're making it willingly. Since the normal response to that is simply find a job you enjoy, unless circumstances force you to remain there, in real life that usually means good pay but in a bad future there must be more dramatic factors at play.


Do you really see Jason hunting down people trying to fight injustice? For real? Because that's what the others are going to do in their fight: fight against the regime because they fight against injustice. And I bet the regime is going to be corrupt. Because they always are (especially in cyberpunk settings). The good guys are going to fight bad guys, and Jason is the one who's going to go after the good guys. That's what it's going to be, it's what's implied.

(Oh, god, I'm so pissed)

----------


## RedBird

> When you get down to the basics, Jason has never been anti-regime.


Let's agree to disagree.




> He was only against Batman's approach to fighting crime since he believed Bruce failed to fully commit and that led to villains perpetuating their reign of terror over the innocent. From that angle, the idea of Jason working alongside a totalitarian regime that has pretty much a kill on sight order against anyone breaking the law isn't too far fetched.


This regime is against vigilantes as well and the solicit mentions that Jason is also taking contracts to capture heroes.

----------


## Aahz

> I'm worried that Jason doesn't have a solo in this event (unlike Dick or Tim/Robin). He has only one story in an oversized comic.


On the other hand that's Tim first solo comics since flashpoint.

I think we have to wait for the march solits, but since they just did the Death in the Family movie, he is going to be in Gotham Knight, and he was in 3 pretty high profile out of continuity books this year, I think there is a good chance that he will be used in some capacity post future state.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Do you really see Jason hunting down people trying to fight injustice? For real? Because that's what the others are going to do in their fight: fight against the regime because they fight against injustice. And I bet the regime is going to be corrupt. Because they always are (especially in cyberpunk settings). The good guys are going to fight bad guys, and Jason is the one who's going to go after the good guys. That's what it's going to be, it's what's implied.
> 
> (Oh, god, I'm so pissed)


I mean, Red Hood started becoming a crime lord to keep all the criminals under control and he had no qualms about taking down Bruce and Nightwing if needed. That particular version of Red Hood would completely be down to work with a regime like this, and we even saw it once before, in Injustice where Jason willingly worked with Superman's regime until they went on a genocide rampage and Damian talked him out of it.

That said I'm not particularly upset about this because is just an elseworld and the solicit paints, Jason, in a sympathetic light thanks to the whole "haunted man doing a job he hates" and the promise of his investigation into the Red Hood gang playing a crucial part into bringing down the Magistrate. If this were the main line, then I would be beyond pissed but is not, and honestly, is a lot better than Lord Robin from Mother Panic or the Nick Fury ripoff that Tynion used in Detective Comics during Rebirth.

----------


## Konja7

> On the other hand that's Tim first solo comics since flashpoint.
> 
> I think we have to wait for the march solits, but since they just did the Death in the Family movie, he is going to be in Gotham Knight, and he was in 3 pretty high profile out of continuity books this year, I think there is a good chance that he will be used in some capacity post future state.


I don't doubt Jason will be used in some capacity post future state1. He is pretty popular.

However, I'm worried he lost his solo.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Anyways, someone pinch me becaue I think I'm dreaming. A DC article that doesn't put Jason as an ill fit for the Robin role!?

https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2020/1...est-boy-wonder




> I don't doubt Jason will be used in some capacity post future state1. He is pretty popular.
> 
> However, I'm worried he lost his solo.



If Jason would've lost his solo, it would've happened already. DC didn't touch their hearts to cancel Batgirl, or Outsiders.

----------


## Zaresh

> I mean, Red Hood started becoming a crime lord to keep all the criminals under control and he had no qualms about taking down Bruce and Nightwing if needed. That particular version of Red Hood would completely be down to work with a regime like this, and we even saw it once before, in Injustice where Jason willingly worked with Superman's regime until they went on a genocide rampage and Damian talked him out of it.
> 
> That said I'm not particularly upset about this because is just an elseworld and the solicit paints, Jason, in a sympathetic light thanks to the whole "haunted man doing a job he hates" and the promise of his investigation into the Red Hood gang playing a crucial part into bringing down the Magistrate. If this were the main line, then I would be beyond pissed but is not, and honestly, is a lot better than Lord Robin from Mother Panic or the Nick Fury ripoff that Tynion used in Detective Comics during Rebirth.


I don't see Under the Hood Jason working with a totalitarian regime that chases vigilantism, when said regime is going to be corrupt, ineffective and the reason why these vigilantes operate (I mean, I don't think this was stated, but why would they fight for, if not?). He fought Dick or Bruce; because they weren't enough and were an annoyance to his view of how to fight the rotten part of the society. Which is how Jason ended in that side in Injustice. That said, I think we can agree in that Injustice-comic Jason was OOC half the time, and when he wasn't, he was highly manipulated and looked like a fool for letting himself being manipulated to that degree. Jason doing his own stuff, like in the second game, but actually helping the heroes, makes more sense.

Edit: geez, I don't know. Maybe I'm really wrong and the story ends up being good and convinces me and I like it in the end. I know it's an elseworld, but it still says something about how the office sees him and that they think it's his appeal.

Edit 2: I don't fear for the rhato book at the moment, to be honest.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Anyways, someone pinch me becaue I think I'm dreaming. A DC article that doesn't put Jason as an ill fit for the Robin role!?
> 
> https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2020/1...est-boy-wonder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If Jason would've lost his solo, it would've happened already. DC didn't touch their hearts to cancel Batgirl, or Outsiders.


That was a good and cathartic article. Jason did have a rough and tumble early life, but like he said, he only stole to survive. He wasn't bad to begin with or anything. Just a kid put in a tough situation, but with strong morals and standards.

----------


## Konja7

> Anyways, someone pinch me becaue I think I'm dreaming. A DC article that doesn't put Jason as an ill fit for the Robin role!?
> 
> https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2020/1...est-boy-wonder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If Jason would've lost his solo, it would've happened already. DC didn't touch their hearts to cancel Batgirl, or Outsiders.


The thing is we don't know what will happen on March.

The solicitations for December doesn't have Final Issue, but I'm not so sure that means Red Hood comic is safe. 

If there is a relaunch for March, it wouldn't be so weird they don't announce Final Issue in the solicitations (they didn't announce in previous relaunch).

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Also for all of you doom sayers




> *Then in March, the regular DC title lineup resumes with the numbering of existing series* in-tact, "continuing existing storylines from 2020 and introducing new arcs for the year."


https://www.gamesradar.com/dc-future-state-details/

Red Hood is one of the existing series, so now you know.

----------


## Konja7

> Also for all of you doom sayers
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.gamesradar.com/dc-future-state-details/
> 
> Red Hood is one of the existing series, so now you know.


That's a relief. Thank you for the answer.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Also for all of you doom sayers
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.gamesradar.com/dc-future-state-details/
> 
> Red Hood is one of the existing series, so now you know.


My doom saying was strictly for this farce of what was left over from 5G (a concept that I hated anyway). Main series, I'll wait until we actually see what drops.

----------


## RedBird

> Anyways, someone pinch me becaue I think I'm dreaming. A DC article that doesn't put Jason as an ill fit for the Robin role!?
> 
> https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2020/1...est-boy-wonder


Oh I saw this article a while back, it was initially a DC universe exclusive, glad they re-released it for everyone.

And yes, it is indeed so cathartic to finally come across an article like this, (from DC no less) that actually looks into Jasons severely unappreciated history and his legacy as Robin.

Indeed, Jason was the best.  :Big Grin:

----------


## Rise

It's not a Jason thread without you people freaking out about one thing or another whenever there's a new announcement. 

Anyway, I admit that I'm little interested, but I might give it a pass. I'm more curious about who is going to take over Red Hood in March.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

From the IGN article




> Instead, the entire event allows creators to explore the future of the DC Universe, with stories set anywhere from 2030 all the way till the end of time as we know it.


So this is all set at least 10 years into the future of the current books.

----------


## RedBird

> It's not a Jason thread without you people freaking out about one thing or another whenever there's a new announcement.


I mean to be fair, that's also comic forums in general, but hey, that's what we're all here for aren't we. To react  :Big Grin: 
Whether it's good or bad reactions, I prefer a lively thread to a dead one anyday.




> Anyway, I admit that I'm little interested, but I might give it a pass. I'm more curious about who is going to take over Red Hood in March.


Same, assuming it's still continuing after future state, I wonder if it's actually going to be Williamson on the title going forward. I was hoping we'd get more information this month, but with future state now in place, I guess we won't have any confirmation on new creative teams till perhaps January.

Does anyone have any particular writers they'd prefer to take over, or are there hopes for some new blood?

----------


## Rac7d*

> only if he was the leader or if taila or bruce was the lead  otherwise no.


He did it for scarecrow in Arkham knight

----------


## RedBird

> So this is all set at least 10 years into the future of the current books.


So pretty much like those Futures End tie ins.
And I guess whatever turns out to be a breakout success for them or shows the most potential, will be integrated into the main universe in March. I'm hoping that new Wonder Woman sticks around, she seems cool.

----------


## Zaresh

From the solicit for the Nightwing story:




> Batman is gone! Now, Nightwing has taken on the mission of *keeping the citizens of Gotham City safe from the Magistrate*. But to do that, he'll have stay one step ahead of the Magistrate! And you know things have gotten bad in Gotham when the safest place for Dick to hide out is the abandoned Arkham Asylum! When Nightwing gets a visit from a mask claiming to be the new Batman…does he fight like one? Pick up this dark peek into the future by writer Andrew Constant and artist Nicola Scott to find out!


That doesn't sound like a regime that chases crime alone. That sounds like a regime that still can't protect their people and actually endangers them. Which is within the genre (cyberpunk, dystopian general) and their tropes.

Just in case, I don't blame Williamson for this. I'm guessing there were certain depictions of the characters the brass wanted and they just pitched their stories following those points they wanted to follow. However it turns out in the end, if it turns bad, I'm not going to blame it on him. I liked how he wrote Jason in that short, and I think he had the right idea about him there.

I hope Jason's working from within... or something.

Pfff, whatever.

----------


## RedBird

> He did it for scarecrow in Arkham knight


That's kind of ignoring the whole 'brainwashed into taking down Batman' element of the story. Context is key. Plus, as soon as AK second guessed that joker-influenced desire to take down Batman, he sabotaged Scarecrow.
Also Scarecrow had the toxin and Jason had the army he trained, they both brought something to the table for a combined goal. Sounds more like a partnership anyway.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> That's kind of ignoring the whole 'brainwashed into taking down Batman' element of the story. *Context is key.* It wasn't just Jason gormlessly following orders, they has a combined goal, and the same could be said about his relationship with Talia and Bruce as well. Plus, as soon as AK second guessed that joker-influenced desire to take down Batman, he sabotaged Scarecrow.
> Also Scarecrow had the toxin and Jason had the army, they both brought something to the table for a combined goal. Sounds more like a partnership anyway.


Exactly, that is why is too premature to start losing your minds over the solicit when we don't know yet how the story plays.

----------


## RedBird

> Just in case, I don't blame Williamson for this. I'm guessing there were certain depictions of the characters the brass wanted and they just pitched their stories following those points they wanted to follow. However it turns out in the end, if it turns bad, I'm not going to blame it on him. I liked how he wrote Jason in that short, and I think he had the right idea about him there.


Which short did he write Jason in?

Also I just found Williamson partly wrote new52 rhato issue #6. Huh.

----------


## Zaresh

> Which short did he write Jason in?
> 
> Also I just found Williamson partly wrote new52 rhato issue #6. Huh.


Wasn't he the one who wrote that short a while back about an old friend of Jason being tagged by some assassin? I think it was a Tec special. It was after the Robin special, of that I'm sure (maybe like four months after?). But maybe I'm mixing him with someone else. But I think it was him. I vaguely remember thinking it read way better than Flash.

----------


## Sergard

> Wasn't he the one who wrote that short a while back about an old friend of Jason being tagged by some assassin? I think it was a Tec special. It was after the Robin special, of that I'm sure (maybe like four months after?). But maybe I'm mixing him with someone else. But I think it was him. I vaguely remember thinking it read way better than Flash.


Do you mean "Reunion" by Steve Orlando?

----------


## Zaresh

> Do you mean "Reunion" by Steve Orlando?


GOD, yes, I mean that one. So it was Orlando. I'm sorry for both of them, I absolutaly mixed their names, which means I thought Orlando wrote Flash, also.
I suck at remembering names, actually. Not a surprise I was so mistaken here. Edited: I'm sooo ashamed of myself. Orlando was the guy in Green Arrow, right? Who was the one in Rebirths Aquaman?

So... I don't know how he's going to write Jason. Well, I still stand for what I said: I think this is a story guided by the points that the office delivered for their pitches. I do think office wanted Jason to be the one with the  side of the regime, and the odd one from the bats.

----------


## RedBird

> Exactly, that is why is too premature to start losing your minds over the solicit when we don't know yet how the story plays.


No one is losing their minds. We're giving our opinions on the solicitation. That thing that's put out for you to judge and to convince you to buy something, that's the point of a solicitation, you are meant to judge it and gauge your interest in the concept it's presenting. And some of us are just not interested, and would have preferred something conceptually different. As it turns out, a solicitation for a story about Red Hood working for an evil regime, especially with every other bat working against it, isn't garnering much excitement.

Personally for me, the context isn't even relevant here, it isn't even my main issue because as I mentioned before, even if this is not (at it's worst) OOC and if Jason is 100% an unwilling participant in this, it's still a story about Red Hood taking contracts on behalf of an evil regime. Not the concept I would have preferred for the Red Hood of all characters in a cyberpunkish dystopia.

As far as solicitations go, this stirs no interest in me. As a Red Hood fan, this solicitation alone has not convinced me to make this purchase. And that's about it.

----------


## RedBird

> GOD, yes, I mean that one. So it was Orlando. I'm sorry for both of them, I absolutaly mixed their names, which means I thought Orlando wrote Flash, also.
> I suck at remembering names, actually. Not a surprise I was so mistaken here.


Ah man, Orlando was at the top of my list for writers for Jason after that one single short story.
Unfortunately, I'm not sure how much longer he is working with DC.

----------


## Restingvoice

Yeah it's kinda... we just got him getting The Offer from Luthor and being suspected of Leviathan, so it's kinda... "this again?"... associated with the enemy again? It's a bit uncreative

----------


## Sergard

I just noticed that Batman: The Adventures Continue #14 was released today. I'm glad it's over. The last chapters turned more and more into an unpleasant read.
Although I also have to admit that the last two pages were unexpected.

----------


## Zaresh

> Ah man, Orlando was at the top of my list for writers for Jason after that one single short story.
> Unfortunately, I'm not sure how much longer he is working with DC.


I mean, it could surprise us. Not that I think Flash Rebirth was great (I stopped reading it by issue 12, or 15, maybe? Too slow, too wordy, kinda "I already read that" and I'll be honest, Barry bores me); but you never know. Some writers can write well certain characters and stories, but not others.

I've some hopes for the new writer for RHATO, because a) I like the premise, b) Seems like Martinbropugh is a good fit for noir and suspense, and c) hey, Matthew Rosenberg said he was cool for Jason's book, so he may be. Hoping it wasn't just some polite tweeting (maaan, Rosenberg writing Jason, after Freefall? I'll totally support that one. Such a fun and intense read. But he's in Marvel, so...).

----------


## RedBird

> I mean, it could surprise us. Not that I think Flash Rebirth was great (I stopped reading it by issue 12, or 15, maybe? Too slow, too wordy, kinda "I already read that" and I'll be honest, Barry bores me); but you never know. Some writers can write well certain characters and stories, but not others.
> 
> I've some hopes for the new writer for RHATO, because a) I like the premise, b) Seems like Martinbropugh is a good fit for noir and suspense, and c) hey, Matthew Rosenberg said he was cool for Jason's book, so he may be. Hoping it wasn't just some polite tweeting (maaan, Rosenberg writing Jason, after Freefall? I'll totally support that one. Such a fun and intense read. But he's in Marvel, so...).


I get what you mean with Williamsons Flash, even though I was enjoying Flash at first, the drama felt needless at times and it did begin to drag a little and repeat itself. Though to be fair, the excess drama could also be due to the chaotic history of the flash and all the consequences of the reboot and retcons beginning to weigh down on the series due to Williamson, to his credit, trying to make everything fit. 

And oooh Rosenberg is a good choice, I'd definitely would've wanted to see some of that. Also, wait, he said he was cool for Jasons book?

----------


## Zaresh

> I get what you mean with Williamsons Flash, even though I was enjoying Flash at first, the drama felt needless at times and it did begin to drag a little and repeat itself. Though to be fair, the excess drama could also be due to the chaotic history of the flash and all the consequences of the reboot and retcons beginning to weigh down on the series due to Williamson, to his credit, trying to make everything fit. 
> 
> And oooh Rosenberg is a good choice, I'd definitely would've wanted to see some of that. Also, wait, he said he was cool for Jasons book?


No, he he. If I recall, he said Jason was one of his favourites, and that he was cool with Shawn Martinbrough writing him. The "he" in my sentence is Shawn, not Matthew. Sorry for my awkward phrasing.

----------


## RedBird

> No, he he. If I recall, he said Jason was one of his favourites, and that he was cool with Shawn Martinbrough writing him. The "he" in my sentence is Shawn, not Matthew. Sorry for my awkward phrasing.


Oh haha, gosh, got my hopes up and everything  :Stick Out Tongue: 

Also I just noticed that even though he is with Marvel, as you mentioned, Rosenberg actually has a story in the upcoming DC Death Metal The last 52, so perhaps a future DC book isn't too out of the question.

----------


## Zaresh

> Oh haha, gosh, got my hopes up and everything 
> 
> Also I just noticed that even though he is with Marvel, as you mentioned, Rosenberg actually has a story in the upcoming DC Death Metal The last 52, so perhaps a future DC book isn't too out of the question.


Oh, that gives me some hope. Nice  :Big Grin: . I think he could do well in a few books. I have some ideas...

----------


## RedBird

> Oh, that gives me some hope. Nice . I think he could do well in a few books. I have some ideas...


Do tell...

Also, I don't want to derail the Jason thread but you've mentioned being a fan of Moon Knight a few times previously and I'm kind of curious to see what he's about, I was wondering if there was any particular run you'd recommend?

----------


## Zaresh

> Do tell...
> 
> Also, I don't want to derail the Jason thread but you've mentioned being a fan of Moon Knight a few times previously and I'm kind of curious to see what he's about, I was wondering if there was any particular run you'd recommend?


Besides Red Hood? I think he could write a good Justice League International-like book with second line heroes that allow for ensemble cast stories without putting certain ones over the others. Something less bright and soft... I think he could write a nice run for Hellblazer, even if a run more down to earth than the ones with high magic plots people expect. Huh, what about The Question? Heh, or Huntress?

About Moon Knight.

*spoilers:*
It depends on what you like: old and pulpy or modern and crazy. MK has very few bad runs, he's one of those C listers that are lucky enough to get good but short runs now and then. What's he like? He's like The Shadow, but in the Marvel Universe. Some dirty mercenary almost dies / actually dies in Egypt saving some people from his current boss and associate, who's an actually big piece of shit. He cames back and decides to fight pieces of shit by being a vigilante, like some watcher spirit of vengeance that he may actually be, to pay for his faults. And, he also hunts monsters and deals with the supernatural. Sometimes he plays de detective too. He creates three identities for this purpose that later on the story evolves into actual different personalities that live within himself: Marc Spector, the mercenary, is the actual character; a man that carries his weighted baggage, 
 he's generally speaking good and has some virtues, but also some very problematic flaws. Steven Grant is a businessman, the handsome and charming one, the nicer one. And Jake Lockley is the street smarts one, the one who deals with the folks and gathers info and allies. He has a developed cast of supporting characters that often suffer from his career either as a vigilante or as a mercenary. He also has a nice rogue gallery that tends to die or suffer ill fates after their story arcs. Like the Shadow, he has a love interest that is in and out his live and struggles with him (but loves him). And then there's Khonshu, that may be an actual good, may be Marc's schizophrenic mind, or may be something else. But see, even if Marc doesn't have powers or is powered by a god, it is sooo weird that he survives so many impossible situations, and has imposible stamina sometimes, and has such good luck (or bad) sometimes... Heh.

If you want to take a taste, I always suggest the short run that Ellis wrote back in 1014 (Vol 5): it's six issues long, introduces the character to new readers alright, and you can also taste a bit of everything MK is about nowadays. From issue 7 up to the end of that volume, there're two more writers that I didn't like that much, but were ok. Well, I actually liked Wood's issues plenty, and it was the first time Greg Smallwood worked on MK and he was the main penciller in Lemire's run and oooh, that was some pretty art to look at, during Lemire's run (Vol. 6, the run in 2016). As I say, Lemire's run is also pretty good, but it's a big, big retcon of Moon Knight's whole story that is not the best way you could start reading about the character and is more enjoyable if you've read older comics. Volume 3 (2005) is very grimdark, but it's also a very enjoyable and you get to see why and how Marc screwed his life so much that he ends up kind of isolated in the following volumes. And then the original Moench run is very good if you like the writing style: old school, but good old school. Beyond that, I've read Bendis run that was, er, Bendis run: he did what he wanted and that means disregarding several traits and background facts about the main characters. It was fun, but it wasn't good. At least it introduced Steven as some film producer, which lets be honest, it's a neat and fun thing to do because he's a jewish vigilante doing hollywood movies about his vigilante life and everyone knows it's his. I also read the first two story arcs of Max Bemis run and it was ok, I liked them, but couldn't get into the third one for some reason.
*end of spoilers*

And I think that's all I can say about MK in a thread that's not about MK.

----------


## RedBird

> Besides Red Hood? I think he could write a good Justice League International-like book with second line heroes that allow for ensemble cast stories without putting certain ones over the others. Something less bright and soft... I think he could write a nice run for Hellblazer, even if a run more down to earth than the ones with high magic plots people expect. Huh, what about The Question? Heh, or Huntress?


Thank you so much for the introduction and recommendations for Moon Knight  :Smile: 
Funny enough it was through Rosenbergs Punisher series that I first noticed the character, so I don't know how accurate Rosenbergs version of Moon Knight is but it sure was entertaining. I'll definitely start out with the 2014 series, I've heard quite a lot of good things about that one.

And oh yeah, I can definitely see a Hellblazer series by Rosenberg.

----------


## cc008

Speaking of Rosenberg, he would absolutely crush a Red Hood title.

----------


## RedBird

Oh gosh darn. 

Looks like Rosenberg is on the Grifter title. Feels like he has written for every character similar to Red Hood except for Red Hood himself.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Zaresh

> Oh gosh darn. 
> 
> Looks like Rosenberg is on the Grifter title. Feels like he has written for every character similar to Red Hood except for Red Hood himself.


I saw it a few minutes ago in twitter (when twitter came back). God deary mine, it's coming close, yet still too far. Let it come even closer. Pretty please.

I ask batting my eyelashes.

----------


## RedBird

> God deary mine, it's coming close, yet still too far.


Exactly. It being _just_ out reach, makes it oh so much more painful XD

Its like a monkeys paw, I even said on the previous page that a future DC book might not be out of the question for Rosenberg. 
I was right, but at what cost XD If only I had been more specific.

----------


## Rise

I watched DITF. It was pretty good and the ultimate Jason movie. Didn't expect to see so many different endings and possibilities for Jason.

The best thing about it that it did a great job capturing what made Jason and Bruce's relationship tragic because they were treated as a father and son, not as a mentor and his failed student (which makes the fact that the comics completely shy away from mentioning the "s" word compared to the movie really shameful). Bruce's line about how the crime ally took his parents and how it has given him a son was easily my favourite. 

Besides the excellent way they handled Bruce and Jason, they also did a good job with Tim and his inclusion was pretty clever.

----------


## Zaresh

> I watched DITF. It was pretty good and the ultimate Jason movie. Didn't expect to see so many different endings and possibilities for Jason.
> 
> The best thing about it that it did a great job capturing what made Jason and Bruce's relationship tragic because they were treated as a father and son, not as a mentor and his failed student (which makes the fact that the comics completely shy away from mentioning the "s" word compared to the movie really shameful). Bruce's line about how the crime ally took his parents and how it has given him a son was easily my favourite. 
> 
> Besides the excellent way they handled Bruce and Jason, they also did a good job with Tim and his inclusion was pretty clever.


Looks like I'm purchasing that BD as soon as I can.

----------


## RedBird

> I watched DITF. It was pretty good and the ultimate Jason movie. Didn't expect to see so many different endings and possibilities for Jason.
> 
> The best thing about it that it did a great job capturing what made Jason and Bruce's relationship tragic because they were treated as a father and son, not as a mentor and his failed student (which makes the fact that the comics completely shy away from mentioning the "s" word compared to the movie really shameful). Bruce's line about how the crime ally took his parents and how it has given him a son was easily my favourite. 
> 
> Besides the excellent way they handled Bruce and Jason, they also did a good job with Tim and his inclusion was pretty clever.


Yeah agreed, the fact that this film completely embraced the Father and Son relationship between Bruce and Jason, definitely made it a highlight of the experience. I genuinely lost count of how many times Bruce calls Jason his son, or refers to himself as a father in this film. 

Modern comics really are pitiful by comparison, and their insistence on shying away from the father and son relationship doesn't even make sense since it only ends up destroying a lot of the Pathos that is the very essence of the tragedy in DITF, UTRH, and even in the characters of Bruce and Jason.

All the paths broke my heart in different ways, but *spoilers:*
 in the path where Bruce dies, and he utters the words 'I love you son' to Jason. Alternate take or not, that one really got me. You rarely ever hear Bruce saying 'I love you' like that, especially to Jason nowadays.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I had forgotten about DITF.

Personally, I found it thoroughly mediocre. There's five major paths but ultimately only one doesn't end up being a rehash of UTRH with a different costume, the writing is also all over the place with some decisions ignoring the internal logic presented in the original UTRH story (since is the baseline for the whole thing) just to create shocking moments or drama, while other options outright throw away any character development Jason goes through _that specific pathline_ for the aforementioned reasons. Brandon Vietti also seems to enjoy punishing Jason (and the viewers for association) any time he picks the "good" choices while the "evil" ones lead to the better outcomes. All branches have their high and lows but the Hush one is certainly the worst of the bunch, being entirely lineal and the writing coming off like a self indulgent fanfiction that goes hard into "Jason is an angsty badass that can't be stopped" and makes every other character look like complete morons. 

The animation is also pretty poor with a bunch of scenes that are just slideshows while an off-frame voice narrates what's happening. Also as I mentioned before, like 60% of the total runtime is just rehashed scenes from UTRH with the only big differences being what costume Jason is wearing and the addition of some explicit (and at times, gratuitous) gore. The voice acting is pretty good, even if that is mostly to DiMaggio doing an astounding job as The Joker since Bruce Greenwood has very few lines and while Martella does a decent job as a teenager Jason, he's horribly miscast as Red Hood, and having him redub an entire scene from UtRH just highlights how poor of a replacement he is for Ackles. 

As others have mentioned, the absolute best part of the film is how hard it leans on Bruce seeing Jason as his son, that unsurprisingly, takes the front seat during the UtRH recap.

Ultimately the film was slightly better than what I expected but my expectations were low to begin with, so isn't that big of a feat, still a nice addition to the collection of any Jason fan but UtRH continues to reign as both the definitive animated appearance of Jason and the best modern DC animated film.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I just finished reading the Adventure Continues. 

Well that was an incredibly underwhelming retelling of UTRH, especially because it never did even a token attempt at trying to handwave Jason's existence in the BTAS universe. Pretty disappointing compared to how clever was the integration of JPV and AzBats.

----------


## Sergard

Giannis Milonogiannis

_"see you in January"_




Joshua Williamson

_"I also did a RED HOOD story for Future State that was drawn by @musashinoelegy
 and colored by Jordie Bellaire. I don't think I can show off the art yet but they made something really beautiful and rad."_

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

https://twitter.com/Williamson_Josh/...37461223419904

Ohhhh boy, the costume is even worse than I thought.

----------


## Sergard

Shawn Martinbrough

_"Demetrius Korlee, Jr. in #REDHOOD #51. Art by @Tony8Akins /Stefano Gaudiano, Colors by Paul Mounts w/lettering by Troy Peteri. Covers A & B  by @Danmora_c & @KaelNgu. Written by me & published by @DCComics. In stores Nov."_

----------


## Sergard

> https://twitter.com/Williamson_Josh/...37461223419904
> 
> Ohhhh boy, the costume is even worse than I thought.


I don't really see much of Jason's costume. The bike is cool though.

Is Jason chasing Vigilante?

----------


## RedBird

> Ohhhh boy, the costume is even worse than I thought.


How so?




> I don't really see much of Jason's costume. The bike is cool though.
> 
> Is Jason chasing Vigilante?


I guess they are being really literal with the targeting vigilantes thing.  :Stick Out Tongue: 

Also I feel Jason is getting closer and closer to finally getting an Akira bike.

----------


## Sergard

> How so?
> 
> 
> 
> I guess they are being really literal with the targeting vigilantes thing. 
> 
> *Also I feel Jason is getting closer and closer to finally getting an Akira bike.*


So at least one good thing about _Future State_.  :Cool: 



Jason won the October Pinup Poll on Nick Robles' Patreon page against Zagreus (Hades game) and Geralt (Witcher). It was very close - and Geralt was actually leading for the longest time. I could be wrong but I think it was a last second win for Jason.

So Nick Robles is going to draw a (sexy) Jason Todd Pinup for his Patreon page.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> How so?


First I'm going to quote the pícs for context




> 





> 


The sketch makes obvious how poorly designed the helmet is, since the way the visor portrudes forward breaks the aesthetic of using a helmet in the first place and makes Jason look pretty Robotic. It was already an issue to have him convey emotions with the helmet and this design looks even more inhuman than usual. But the real problem is the coloring scheme. There's just not a coherency in the way the slapped red all over the outfit. The jacket is very obviously taken from his AK version but having the sleeves blue while the rest of the jacket is red makes it look like is tacked on, rather than a proper jacket. Having the muzzle piece of the helmet be crimson red while the rest of the helmet is black makes him look like a pretty unappealing luchador mask. The way the visor portrudes also gives the impression of Jason's face being black while his mouth is red, creating a pretty jarring visual.

----------


## RedBird

> So Nick Robles is going to draw a (sexy) Jason Todd Pinup for his Patreon page.


His tweet says 'another' Jason Todd. So I guess this is the second one of the month. XD

----------


## Sergard

> His tweet says 'another' Jason Todd. So I guess this is the second one of the month. XD


Actually the third one. There are already two very spicy Jason artworks. Nick Robles calls them "50 Shades of J".

----------


## RedBird

> First I'm going to quote the pícs for context
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The sketch makes obvious how poorly designed the helmet is, since the way the visor portrudes forward breaks the aesthetic of using a helmet in the first place and makes Jason look pretty Robotic. It was already an issue to have him convey emotions with the helmet and this design looks even more inhuman than usual. But the real problem is the coloring scheme. There's just not a coherency in the way the slapped red all over the outfit. The jacket is very obviously taken from his AK version but having the sleeves blue while the rest of the jacket is red makes it look like is tacked on, rather than a proper jacket. Having the muzzle piece of the helmet be crimson red while the rest of the helmet is black makes him look like a pretty unappealing luchador mask. The way the visor portrudes also gives the impression of Jason's face being black while his mouth is red, creating a pretty jarring visual.


I think the sleeves are meant to be grey instead of blue, but otherwise yeah, the mask is kind of a miss for me. Mainly because (sans hoodie) the rest of the helmet/mask being black instead of red makes it look like a balaclava instead. I guess with the hoodie up it's not that jarring for me, but without it, well, it's weird that he has red all over his design except for the one iconic place it should be. His head.

----------


## Jackalope89

Yeah, read Batman the Adventure Continues, and Joker literally said, "you saved me and left him to die."

The ending is, interesting? Don't know how I feel about it. But it doesn't help that BTAS Tim is basically Jason in all but name as well.

----------


## Zaresh

> So at least one good thing about _Future State_. 
> 
> 
> 
> Jason won the October Pinup Poll on Nick Robles' Patreon page *against Zagreus (Hades game) and Geralt (Witcher)*. It was very close - and Geralt was actually leading for the longest time. I could be wrong but I think it was a last second win for Jason.
> 
> So Nick Robles is going to draw a (sexy) Jason Todd Pinup for his Patreon page.


Tough challengers. I personally would absolutely have one Zaggie for me. Because he's just so huggable, the snarky, sassy, rebellious, hot, dorky guy.

You guys would love Zagreus.
Go play Hades. Or watch some let's play or something. Even watching the game's a lot of fun. Also, badass music.

----------


## Aahz

> Yeah, read Batman the Adventure Continues, and Joker literally said, "you saved me and left him to die."


Haven't really read it, but just on quick look the whole thing looks like one of the worst takes of Jason sofar.

----------


## Sergard

> [...]
> 
> The sketch makes obvious how poorly designed the helmet is, since the way the visor protrudes forward breaks the aesthetic of using a helmet in the first place and *makes Jason look pretty Robotic*. It was already an issue to have him convey emotions with the helmet and this design looks even more *inhuman* than usual. But the real problem is the coloring scheme. There's just not a coherency in the way the slapped red all over the outfit. The jacket is very obviously taken from his AK version but having the sleeves blue while the rest of the jacket is red makes it look like is tacked on, rather than a proper jacket. Having the muzzle piece of the helmet be crimson red while the rest of the helmet is black makes him look like a pretty unappealing luchador mask. The way the visor protrudes also gives the impression of Jason's face being black while his mouth is red, creating a pretty jarring visual.


The Magistrate uses robot law enforcement peacekeepers. I guess the artist wanted to incorporate some robotic elements. In my opinion, the design is fine for that kind of story ("Jason Todd is a haunted man. He's working a job he hates[...]" - with a premise like that it makes sense that the design is "dark" and even off-putting.). Personally, I don't agree with you. Neither does it look like a luchador mask nor does the design create the false impression that Jason has a black face with a red mouth. But, as said, this is just my personal opinion. 

I will probably read the story. I don't expect much though. It's filler. Maybe it's bad, maybe it's good - maybe it's just mediocre. In the end, it won't matter. But Jason working for the Magistrate isn't automatically a red flag for me. As others have pointed out before, the solicitation even states that Jason hates it. So how is this any different from Jason working for Black Mask at the beginning of the RHatO Rebirth run?

But I can also understand people being annoyed.

Personally, I'm looking forward to Dan Mora's art on Dark Detective, Matthew Rosenberg writing Grifter and John Ridley's The Next Batman. I also like Cass and Stephanie's designs.
It's weird though that the bat-franchise is concentrated on one event while all the other titles present a broader future. I'm going to wait for reviews but some of those other titles actually look very nice.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

A proper review of the Mcfarlane Two-pack. Jason looks fantastic.

Seems like the pack will be out until December so that's might be why there's no preorders anywhere.

----------


## Sergard

> A proper review of the Mcfarlane Two-pack. Jason looks fantastic.
> 
> Seems like the pack will be out until December so that's might be why there's no preorders anywhere.


Me: No time for the whole video, therefore I immediately jump to the Red Hood part.
Guy in the video: "... Now I know you are all here for the Red Hood ..."
I feel exposed.  :Big Grin: 

And I agree. This figure looks incredible.

----------


## Zaresh

> Me: No time for the whole video, therefore I immediately jump to the Red Hood part.
> Guy in the video: "... Now I know you are all here for the Red Hood ..."
> I feel exposed. 
> 
> And I agree. This figure looks incredible.


It's like everyone is aware of the appeal, but the guys who should really ponder about said appeal for improving their sales.

\o/

----------


## Drako

This Nightwing is just a repaint of the Rebirth one, of course Red Hood it's the appeal of this box. And they did a better job with Jason anyways.

They are marketing as the New 52 version but didn't even bothered to change the model. This remind me thoses dragon ball figures that only change the head from each version.

----------


## Zaresh

> This Nightwing is just a repaint of the Rebirth one, of course Red Hood it's the appeal of this box. And they did a better job with Jason anyways.
> 
> They are marketing as the New 52 version but didn't even bothered to change the model. This remind me thoses dragon ball figures that only change the head from each version.


Oh, I guess that explains it. I honestly know near to nothing about toys and figures and collectibles like these.

----------


## Drako

> Oh, I guess that explains it. I honestly know near to nothing about toys and figures and collectibles like these.


The reviewer shows the comparison between this version and the original one. The blue one is much better. It's funny because they have a picture of the New 52 costume and doesn't even look close to what they did with the figure, since his rebirth costume is much simpler.

As a Nightwing fan, i would buy the blue version, but the Red Hood in this one it's pretty cool.

----------


## Sergard

Nick Robles

_"October's Pinup is now on my Patreon.

Who did everyone vote for? Jason, of course!"_

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> Nick Robles
> 
> _"October's Pinup is now on my Patreon.
> 
> Who did everyone vote for? Jason, of course!"_



Uh is there a full pic, I need to see it for research purposes...

----------


## Zaresh

> Uh is there a full pic, I need to see it for research purposes...


I doubt it, seems like a sneak peek for contents for patreons. But there's some instagram, too, with a lot of pictures... Plenty of nice pictures (Zagreus' one is also something pretty to look at, I dare say)

----------


## Sergard

> Uh is there a full pic, I need to see it for research purposes...





> I doubt it, seems like a sneak peek for contents for patreons. But there's some instagram, too, with a lot of pictures... Plenty of nice pictures (Zagreus' one is also something pretty to look at, I dare say)


Zaresh is right. The full pic is on Nick Robles' Patreon (5$ per month - totally worth it, in my eyes. But I also adore Nick Robles' style). Maybe he'll post the full pic on social media one day too - but I'm a little doubtful because it's ... spicy.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Jason's cameo in Batman: White Knight Presents: Harley Quinn #1

----------


## Sergard

I wonder why DC likes to use Death in the family and not The Killing Joke for giving Harley the necessary push to leave Joker.
Personally, I don't mind it. It doesn't change anything about Jason's story if Harley is involved or not. I just think it's maybe lost potential to not show the similarities between Harley and Barbara.
Both are women around the same age, both are incredibly smart - and both were deeply hurt by Joker - Barbara physically and Harley mentally.



Here's the finalized Red Hood: Outlaw #50 cover.

----------


## Aahz

> I wonder why DC likes to use Death in the family and not The Killing Joke for giving Harley the necessary push to leave Joker.


I guess because "The Killing Joke" is the by far superior comic, making retroactive changes to that story is far more risky than to Death in the family, which is not that great.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

How many times has DITF actually been used as a catalyst for that? WK is the first time I remember. 

Also, that cover is beautiful.

----------


## Restingvoice

> I wonder why DC likes to use Death in the family and not The Killing Joke for giving Harley the necessary push to leave Joker.
> Personally, I don't mind it. It doesn't change anything about Jason's story if Harley is involved or not. I just think it's maybe lost potential to not show the similarities between Harley and Barbara.
> Both are women around the same age, both are incredibly smart - and both were deeply hurt by Joker - Barbara physically and Harley mentally.


because it's the killing of a child whereas Harley has no problem with Joker torturing adults
Ignoring of course, the time she helped him taking hostage of newborn babies in No Man's Land hospital, but I can justify it by saying Joker never targeted the babies in the first place or he told Harley such

Torturing Tim in Beyond doesn't count. That was just one time.

----------


## Sergard

> How many times has DITF actually been used as a catalyst for that? WK is the first time I remember. 
> 
> Also, that cover is beautiful.


I don't know if it will have a big impact on Harley, but something similar happened in Batman: The Adventures Continue recently.
Harley was also present in Arkham Knight Genesis - but I'm not sure if it had a positive impact on her. As far as I can recall, she participated in the torture - and she still is a villain in the game (or?). Maybe someone else can remember if she showed any remorse for her actions or not.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Bad examples.

The adventures continue supposedly fits into the BTAS canon and Harley not only continues to love The Joker during Batman Beyond, she never showed remorse at what the Joker did to Tim.

Same with AK: Genesis. Harley is still a faithful follower of the Joker through the entire saga. In fact, Harley growing a conscience is a relatively recent retcon used to justify her heel face turn.

----------


## Sergard

> Bad examples.
> 
> The adventures continue supposedly fits into the BTAS canon and Harley not only continues to love The Joker during Batman Beyond, she never showed remorse at what the Joker did to Tim.
> 
> Same with AK: Genesis. Harley is still a faithful follower of the Joker through the entire saga. In fact, Harley growing a conscience is a relatively recent retcon used to justify her heel face turn.


I don't know BTAS good enough - I actually don't know it at all. BTAC hints at Ivy and Harley being a thing - does this coincide with BTAS canon?
I wouldn't mind BTAC being a reboot. I hate the Joker Jr. part. On the other hand, I also don't really like BTAC. So maybe the BTAS universe was never meant for me to begin with.






> It's the holidays in Gotham City, and Harley and Ivy have a wonderful idea: they want to hold a party for all the city's villains to commemorate the season! But one evildoer wasn't invited and has sent a devious present to the festivities to make some mischief. Can Batman intercept the package and save the villains, or is it the final night for these fiendish foes?!


You are probably right about AK: Genesis. I think I misremembered/misinterpreted a panel of Harley looking sad while Joker "spends some time" with Jason.

----------


## cc008

> Here's the finalized Red Hood: Outlaw #50 cover.


My goodness, I love this.

----------


## Jackalope89

BTAS Harley did team up with Ivy a few times. But at some point, had a kid, and then grandkids. Why? 



That is old lady Harley and her granddaughters, Dee and Dee. Whom are members of the Jokerz gang in Batman Beyond.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> BTAS Harley did team up with Ivy a few times. But at some point, had a kid, and then grandkids. *Why?*


Because the Ivy/Harley ship is a recent development that it wasn't a part of Harley's original characterization. There's even an infamous page from one of the original BTAS comics where Harley asks Barbara if she and Supergirl are together to which Barbara questions Harley about her relationship with Ivy to which Harley asks shocked and decides to drop the whole thing.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Because the Ivy/Harley ship is a recent development that it wasn't a part of Harley's original characterization. There's even an infamous page from one of the original BTAS comics where Harley asks Barbara if she and Supergirl are together to which Barbara questions Harley about her relationship with Ivy to which Harley asks shocked and decides to drop the whole thing.


That was more rhetorical on my end...

----------


## Jman27

> BTAS Harley did team up with Ivy a few times. But at some point, had a kid, and then grandkids. Why? 
> 
> 
> 
> That is old lady Harley and her granddaughters, Dee and Dee. Whom are members of the Jokerz gang in Batman Beyond.


I need to rewatch batman beyond i dont remember nothing except for the movie which i rewatch multiple times as a kid

----------


## Sergard

I admit, saying that DitF is used as an eye-opener for Harley was a wrong assessment.
But, in my eyes, it's still lost potential that writers never mention TKJ in a story with Harley Quinn to point out some similarities between Barbara and Harley. (I'm not saying that Harley should be retconned into TKJ. I'd just like to know how Harley feels about it - or how Harley and Barbara in general feel about each other. I know they met each other in Heroes in Crisis but I can't even remember the story anymore.)

----------


## Aahz

> But, in my eyes, it's still lost potential that writers never mention TKJ in a story with Harley Quinn to point out some similarities between Barbara and Harley.


The thing is that Joker in Killing Joke target Barbara because she was the daugther of inspector Gordon and didn't knew that she was Batgirl.

Also in the White Knight Universe and the DCAU Killing Joke didn't happened.

Btw. if they somehow retcon Harley into DitF in the main continuity, they almost also have to retcon her into Killing Joke, since those two happened really close after one another.

----------


## Sergard

> The thing is that Joker in Killing Joke target Barbara because she was the daugther of inspector Gordon and didn't knew that she was Batgirl.
> 
> Also in the White Knight Universe and the DCAU Killing Joke didn't happened.
> 
> *Btw. if they somehow retcon Harley into DitF in the main continuity, they almost also have to retcon her into Killing Joke, since those two happened really close after one another.*


Not necessarily. They could always say that Harley wasn't around during The Killing Joke. Joker and Harley don't have to stick together 24/7.
Do we know when Dr. Quinzel turned into Harley Quinn in the current main continuity? Before or after DitF?

----------


## Arsenal

Didn’t RHATO Rebirth mention something about Harley treating treat Hood during his time in Arkham?

----------


## Jackalope89

> Didn’t RHATO Rebirth mention something about Harley treating treat Hood during his time in Arkham?


Something like that, and mentioned in passing.

----------


## RedBird

> I wonder why DC likes to use Death in the family and not The Killing Joke for giving Harley the necessary push to leave Joker.
> Personally, I don't mind it. It doesn't change anything about Jason's story if Harley is involved or not. I just think it's maybe lost potential to not show the similarities between Harley and Barbara.
> Both are women around the same age, both are incredibly smart - and both were deeply hurt by Joker - Barbara physically and Harley mentally.


Considering the push for Harley as a hero, it is baffling that there hasn't really been much in the way of retcons and revisions to Harleys history to justify the change, if this is to be her new status quo, then yes, there is certainly potential for story flashbacks to major events such as the Killing Joke to help shape Harleys character, as they shaped the Jokers character.

Unfortunately DC in general hasn't done a good job establishing how Harley felt about her time with Joker outside of her own abuse narrative. It wasn't the torture of innocents, and the cries of those that Joker killed that gave her any sort of epiphany, on the contrary, she gleefully joined him in his terrorisation of Gotham and it's people. Instead, it was because at times, he was cruel to her too, and that was when she realised she was not ok with her situation. It's a very good catalyst for her leaving him and becoming a solo villain, not wanting to be restrained by him. Not so much a good or logical reason for having a heel turn into heroism. Main continuity wise, she is as murderous as Joker, and even when framed with the lens of a sympathetic abuse narrative, it still means that her moving away from Joker was due to self preservation, and not because she cared about the well being or lives of others.

Far as I know WK is the first example of DITF being used as the catalyst for Harley realising Jokers monstrous behaviour. It's also possibly the best example thus far of a story actually _putting the effort_ into Harleys backstory to justify her transformation from villain into a hero/anti-hero, instead of just hand waving it and hoping the audience is too distracted to notice.

DCs main continuity wishes it had what WK has.
A Harley Quinn that was established to have _limits_ to her villainy. Using both its version of DITF and also HQ Black and white and red #6, WK drew a much more clear line in the sand for Harley and where her morals really were _despite_ her love for the Joker, making her redemption more logical and credible. Her own faults and flaws aside, the story doesn't have her being as twisted and depraved as Joker, it displayed her as a villain who enjoyed the thrill of committing crimes such as major heists and having fun doing so, but not necessarily having the desire to hurt people or go out of her way to hurt innocent people. So far, the current WK Harley, is the version of Harley that the main continuity pretends it has, just an intelligent girl with a wild streak who fell for the wrong man and sadly, became in over her head. As opposed to the monstrous serial killer that the main continuity _actually_ have on their hands, that they are now trying to pass off as just a fun loving clown girl.

----------


## Sergard

Matthew Rosenberg

Matthew Rosenberg Twitter 23-10-2020.jpg

----------


## cc008

I love his Hawkeye and would LOVE for him to write Jason. Two of my favorites.

----------


## RedBird

Oh the tease  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Zaresh

> Matthew Rosenberg
> 
> Matthew Rosenberg Twitter 23-10-2020.jpg


Oh, near perfect. If he were to add Wally West, Rogue and, lets say, Peter or Kaine Parker, he would be literally God Tier.
And I love his writing.
This pleases me immensely.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Not necessarily. They could always say that Harley wasn't around during The Killing Joke. Joker and Harley don't have to stick together 24/7.
> Do we know when Dr. Quinzel turned into Harley Quinn in the current main continuity? Before or after DitF?


The last time I know was in New 52 where Harley's earliest appearance alongside Joker, Batman and Robin was dated 5 years ago, the same year Joker and Dick Grayson Robin debuted. 




> Didnt RHATO Rebirth mention something about Harley treating treat Hood during his time in Arkham?


Yeah that doesn't make sense unless he went to Arkham as a child since Arkham, at least in the game, also has a treatment facility for civilians. The only time Jason went to Arkham in canon was during Dick's time as Batman and no matter which continuity that's way after she became Harley and won't be able to publicly practice.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Yeah that doesn't make sense unless he went to Arkham as a child since Arkham, at least in the game, also has a treatment facility for civilians. The only time Jason went to Arkham in canon was during Dick's time as Batman and no matter which continuity that's way after she became Harley and won't be able to publicly practice.


There were passing mentions here and there that in the N52 reimagined events of the Under the Red Hood, Bruce locked Jason in Arkham for a brief period of time before he escaped and left Gotham, leading to the events of RHATO #1.

----------


## RedBird

> The last time I know was in New 52 where Harley's earliest appearance alongside Joker, Batman and Robin was dated 5 years ago, the same year Joker and Dick Grayson Robin debuted. 
> 
> Yeah that doesn't make sense unless he went to Arkham as a child since Arkham, at least in the game, also has a treatment facility for civilians. The only time Jason went to Arkham in canon was during Dick's time as Batman and no matter which continuity that's way after she became Harley and won't be able to publicly practice.


In Rhato rebirth issue #4, Jason mentions 'Dr Quinzel' and having therapy sessions in Arkham, though in the suicide squad arc he seems wary of Harley. 
It's an easily ignored reference, and as you mentioned she would have been unable to practise by the time Jason ends up in Arkham.

Though this could also be interpreted as Jason only speaking of Harley in a formal way as Doctor Quinzel since the context of the scene is that he is taking professional advice she offered him once, in a moment where he needs to apply it. 
And if that's the case then the reference from rhato could still work if it's interpreted as Jasons interaction with Harley being less of a patient and doctor scenario and more so with the two of them as patients in Arkham, attending group therapy sessions where Harley, no doubt, did most of the talking.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Restingvoice

> There were passing mentions here and there that in the N52 reimagined events of the Under the Red Hood, Bruce locked Jason in Arkham for a brief period of time before he escaped and left Gotham, leading to the events of RHATO #1.


Oh that reminds me, I've been meaning to ask, In the New 52 version of UTRH, did Batman aim for the neck or wrist? or does that never revisited?

----------


## Zaresh

> Oh that reminds me, I've been meaning to ask, In the New 52 version of UTRH, did Batman aim for the neck or wrist? or does that never revisited?


I think that's something we don't know. The whole Under The Hood time is quite vague. It happened, sort of the same way, it's implied. But not described to details, as far as I know.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

From the little we saw, there was no sadistic choice since Dick actually helped Bruce this time and maybe he was even the one to beat Jason. Honestly, Dick missing a proper meeting with Jason during UtRH is one of the story's biggest flaws.

----------


## Zaresh

> From the little we saw, there was no sadistic choice since Dick actually helped Bruce this time and maybe he was even the one to beat Jason. Honestly, Dick missing a proper meeting with Jason during UtRH is one of the story's biggest flaws.


In the comics, at least, they had their plates full with what was happening in Blüdhaven, and was had been going for Dick that year and the year before, as far as I recall. I guess it would've broken the mood they were setting for Dick there, if he were to Gotham and help Bruce for too long.

----------


## Sergard

> From the little we saw, there was no sadistic choice since Dick actually helped Bruce this time and maybe he was even the one to beat Jason. *Honestly, Dick missing a proper meeting with Jason during UtRH is one of the story's biggest flaws.*


I'm glad Dick is not a big part of the UtRH story. He's a horrible character.
Battle for the Cowl and Morrison's Batman & Robin run were bad enough.

----------


## RedBird

> From the little we saw, there was no sadistic choice since Dick actually helped Bruce this time and maybe he was even the one to beat Jason. Honestly, Dick missing a proper meeting with Jason during UtRH is one of the story's biggest flaws.


I think Dick and Jason not having a proper meeting and confrontation, _after_ UTRH is perhaps a bit of a missed opportunity, though the same could be said of Barbara and Jason not having a confrontation _after_ UTRH, she is after all, referenced in the very climax of the story during Jasons monologue for why Joker should be put down. With that said though, I certainly don't see how a lack of interaction or in this case a 'proper meeting' between Dick and Jason _during_ UTRH could in any way be seen as a flaw in the story, let alone the 'biggest' flaw. I find it to be quite the opposite actually.

Jasons time as robin was largely spent with only Bruce (and Alfred), his story of revenge was focused on Gotham, Batman and the Joker, and the pathos of the story hinges on his relationship with Bruce, it wouldn't even really make sense to insert any other batfamily members too heavily into the story or feature a 'proper' confrontation between them and Jason, since aside from Alfred none of them had close relations with Jason to begin with and therefore would not have served the story or the specific pathos it's building upon. For all of the grandiose elements and events that occur in UTRH, it ultimately all comes down to a very intimate clash and drama between a father and son, trying to shove any other characters into that interplay would have most likely only hurt the story or distracted from it.

In the case of UTRH, the fact that it largely ignores the Batfamily members and/or keeps their roles small, is definitely a positive, as it allows for more focus on the main themes of the story and the characters that ACTUALLY matter here, Bruce and Jason.

----------


## Sergard

@Dark: Are any Three Jokers #3 spoilers out yet?

----------


## RedBird

There doesn't even seem to be a preview out for it yet.

----------


## Sergard

Shawn Martinbrough

_"I can check these two items off my bucket list. Introducing Dana Harlowe & King Kati rolls to the DCU in #REDHOOD #51. Art by @Tony8Akins & Stefano Gaudiano. Colors by @paulmounts. Covers by Danmora_c & @KaelNgu. Written by me & published by @DCComics. In stores Nov."_

----------


## Restingvoice

> From the little we saw, there was no sadistic choice since Dick actually helped Bruce this time and maybe he was even the one to beat Jason. Honestly, Dick missing a proper meeting with Jason during UtRH is one of the story's biggest flaws.


Whoa. So that one flashback was the only one?




> In the comics, at least, they had their plates full with what was happening in Blüdhaven, and was had been going for Dick that year and the year before, as far as I recall. I guess it would've broken the mood they were setting for Dick there, if he were to Gotham and help Bruce for too long.


His leg hasn't healed so he took a leave from Bludhaven. Tim and Cass went there in his stead. After the first part of UTRH Dick went undercover as a mob enforcer, nicknamed Crutch because of his leg, with the purpose of arranging events so the mob stay away from Bludhaven. He succeeded. He also met Deathstroke and trained Rose while pretending to have rejected Batman. Dick successfully get Rose on his side and go against her father, so Slade decided as revenge to drop Chemo on Bludhaven, and that happened during the second part of UTRH right. At this point he's out of town with the Titans when the OMAC became active. Tim also joined the Teen Titans to fight OMAC. So they all safe.

----------


## Rise

> I think Dick and Jason not having a proper meeting and confrontation, _after_ UTRH is perhaps a bit of a missed opportunity, though the same could be said of Barbara and Jason not having a confrontation _after_ UTRH, she is after all, referenced in the very climax of the story during Jasons monologue for why Joker should be put down. With that said though, I certainly don't see how a lack of interaction or in this case a 'proper meeting' between Dick and Jason _during_ UTRH could in any way be seen as a flaw in the story, let alone the 'biggest' flaw. I find it to be quite the opposite actually.
> 
> Jasons time as robin was largely spent with only Bruce (and Alfred), his story of revenge was focused on Gotham, Batman and the Joker, and the pathos of the story hinges on his relationship with Bruce, it wouldn't even really make sense to insert any other batfamily members too heavily into the story or feature a 'proper' confrontation between them and Jason, since aside from Alfred none of them had close relations with Jason to begin with and therefore would not have served the story or the specific pathos it's building upon. For all of the grandiose elements and events that occur in UTRH, it ultimately all comes down to a very intimate clash and drama between a father and son, trying to shove any other characters into that interplay would have most likely only hurt the story or distracted from it.
> 
> In the case of UTRH, the fact that it largely ignores the Batfamily members and/or keeps their roles small, is definitely a positive, as it allows for more focus on the main themes of the story and the characters that ACTUALLY matter here, Bruce and Jason.


You said it best. Dick has no place in UTRH and shouldn't be given more since he has nothing to do with it.

I would also say that Jason suddenly obsessing with the batfamily after UTRH made zero sense

----------


## Jackalope89

> You said it best. Dick has no place in UTRH and shouldn't be given more since he has nothing to do with it.
> 
> I would also say that Jason suddenly obsessing with the batfamily after UTRH made zero sense


Tim I could see conflicted feelings on. The first being replaced by him, the other would be anger at having another kid put in harm's way so recklessly. But even then, that wouldn't require a violent confrontation, let alone what happened pre-Flashpoint.

----------


## Zaresh

> I think Dick and Jason not having a proper meeting and confrontation, _after_ UTRH is perhaps a bit of a missed opportunity, though the same could be said of Barbara and Jason not having a confrontation _after_ UTRH, she is after all, referenced in the very climax of the story during Jasons monologue for why Joker should be put down. With that said though, I certainly don't see how a lack of interaction or in this case a 'proper meeting' between Dick and Jason _during_ UTRH could in any way be seen as a flaw in the story, let alone the 'biggest' flaw. I find it to be quite the opposite actually.
> 
> Jasons time as robin was largely spent with only Bruce (and Alfred), his story of revenge was focused on Gotham, Batman and the Joker, and the pathos of the story hinges on his relationship with Bruce, it wouldn't even really make sense to insert any other batfamily members too heavily into the story or feature a 'proper' confrontation between them and Jason, since aside from Alfred none of them had close relations with Jason to begin with and therefore would not have served the story or the specific pathos it's building upon. For all of the grandiose elements and events that occur in UTRH, it ultimately all comes down to a very intimate clash and drama between a father and son, trying to shove any other characters into that interplay would have most likely only hurt the story or distracted from it.
> 
> In the case of UTRH, the fact that it largely ignores the Batfamily members and/or keeps their roles small, is definitely a positive, as it allows for more focus on the main themes of the story and the characters that ACTUALLY matter here, Bruce and Jason.


Well, that too. It would've lost the focus from the actual story that was being told, yep.

----------


## RedBird

> You said it best. Dick has no place in UTRH and shouldn't be given more since he has nothing to do with it.
> 
> *I would also say that Jason suddenly obsessing with the batfamily after UTRH made zero sense*


Agreed.

The random obsession was quite a degradation and misunderstanding of his character that ignored both the nuances of Jasons plight and his deeply personal relationship with Bruce.

----------


## RedBird

> Shawn Martinbrough
> 
> _"I can check these two items off my bucket list. Introducing Dana Harlowe & King Kati rolls to the DCU in #REDHOOD #51. Art by @Tony8Akins & Stefano Gaudiano. Colors by @paulmounts. Covers by Danmora_c & @KaelNgu. Written by me & published by @DCComics. In stores Nov."_


It may just be that one panel, but Tony Akins's Jason is really reminding me of Greg Capullo's Bruce.

----------


## Sergard

> It may just be that one panel, but Tony Akins's Jason is really reminding me of Greg Capullo's Bruce.


Here's another one:

----------


## Jackalope89

> Here's another one:


Yeah, not liking the design personally.

----------


## Frontier

It looks like there's going to be a Red Hood reveal for _Titans_ on Monday.

----------


## cc008

> It looks like there's going to be a Red Hood reveal for _Titans_ on Monday.


Nervous excitement.

----------


## Sergard

> Yeah, not liking the design personally.


I need more panels for a judgement. I'm not even sure if the jacket is part of his Red Hood outfit in that story or if it's supposed to be civilian clothing.

At least we now know the names of the two new characters on the Red Hood #51 cover.
The woman is Dana Harlowe and the masked man is Demetrius Korlee, Jr.






> It looks like there's going to be a Red Hood reveal for _Titans_ on Monday.


I'm honest: I had completely forgotten about Red Hood appearing on Titans season 3.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I need more panels for a judgement. I'm not even sure if the jacket is part of his Red Hood outfit in that story or if it's supposed to be civilian clothing.
> 
> At least we now know the names of the two new characters on the Red Hood #51 cover.
> The woman is Dana Harlowe and the masked man is Demetrius Korlee, Jr.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm honest: I had completely forgotten about Red Hood appearing on Titans season 3.


Has more to do with the "Mr. Incredible" chin and such.

----------


## Zaresh

> I need more panels for a judgement. I'm not even sure if the jacket is part of his Red Hood outfit in that story or if it's supposed to be civilian clothing.
> 
> At least we now know the names of the two new characters on the Red Hood #51 cover.
> The woman is Dana Harlowe and the masked man is Demetrius Korlee, Jr.


I do like the design. Well, maybe not the jaw, but, eh, could be something because of the pencils not being detailed. And then, it's just nitpicking. I like those names, btw.

----------


## Drako

Official Red Hood from the Titans series.

----------


## WebSlingWonder

That looks so freaking clean. Say what you want about _Titans_, but most of their costumes and designs have been on point.

----------


## Frontier

> Official Red Hood from the Titans series.


This isn't a half-bad Red Hood costume...although I think Jensen Ackle's Halloween suit looked a little better  :Stick Out Tongue: .

In all seriousness, I'm happy with it.

The first pic makes it looks like there's damage to the helmet.

----------


## Drako

I wanna know if they will give a reason behind his name in the series, since he is not getting killed by the joker it seems.

----------


## cc008

concept art looks cool. I like the spray painted logo on the chest. I'm just skeptical of how he'll be portrayed by the current actor. Or how he'll fill out that uniform lol

----------


## Jman27

Hopefully he is treated well this season gotta wait until I see it live

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

The helmet looks goofy but then again, the classic helmet would always look weird in real life due to how big it has to be to fit someone's head inside, I would've liked if they used the more stylized design of Dexter's Red Ronin and I hate the angry penguin logo. Besides that, the costume is pretty much the Rebirth costume with an added red hoodie, which I think is a little too much. That said, there's something odd about the photo since makes it look oddly proportioned like he's lacking a neck or has a hunchback, I don't know how to explain it. the very obvious heels to make him look taller is also pretty distracting.

----------


## Arsenal

The helmet is probably as good as a live action version is gonna get unless it’s CGIed on. I’m Surprised they are going with the Outlaw symbol instead of the red Bat. Hopefully Jason gets treated well and has a good showing next season.

----------


## OpaqueGiraffe17

looks like a good mix of the various costumes he's had over the years.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> The helmet is probably as good as a live action version is gonna get unless it’s CGIed on. I’m Surprised they are going with the Outlaw symbol instead of the red Bat. Hopefully Jason gets treated well and has a good showing next season.


Nah, slimmer helmets are possible

----------


## Badou

Helmet looks a bit big, but it does feel like these kind of helmets in live action shows always look too big. Guess that might be because the helmets we get in the comics or non live action media don't really have to adhere to actual physics and look a lot more slim downed when that look wouldn't really work with an actual person in the helmet. Especially when you have to make a helmet that can withstand some stunts. Still, one of the better costumes on the Titans show but given its design it shouldn't have been too difficult to pull off. 

I still don't think the show is very good, but I believe Jason's character has generated the most attention or discussion on the show out of the cast to far from what I've seen with so many clamoring for Red Hood to eventually appear. So I still wonder if they would give him a Red Hood spinoff show because of it.

----------


## gohei_

That actually looks pretty good. I just dislike whenever they have those lines all over the helmet, as is makes it look too much like Iron Man.

----------


## Arsenal

> Nah, slimmer helmets are possible


Eh, that’s true but I honestly don’t mind it being bulky tbh. I just wish the eyes weren’t so noticeably big.

----------


## RedBird

> I still don't think the show is very good, but I believe Jason's character has generated the most attention or discussion on the show out of the cast to far from what I've seen with so many clamoring for Red Hood to eventually appear. So I still wonder if they would give him a Red Hood spinoff show because of it.


Jason's appearance as Red Hood being seen as a major attraction of the show is honestly off-putting. Not only because the Titans show has done such a bad job so far of actually being about the Titans, but that Jason's first live action appearance as Red Hood is now just a rushed out, cobbled together version from a show that was never about him in the first place. What a waste.

Considering how much enthusiasm there clearly is to see Red Hood, I don't know why there wasn't a Red Hood series to begin with. Not a spin off though. Titans is pretty awful in terms of writing, I don't think it deserves 'spin-offs'. 
If it's source material that's needed, then the comics are right there, I'd much rather have fresh new shows with none of the 'inspiration' from this Titans series.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Jason's appearance as Red Hood being seen as a major attraction of the show is honestly off-putting. Not only because the Titans show has done such a bad job so far of actually being about the Titans, but that Jason's first live action appearance as Red Hood is now just a rushed out, cobbled together version from a show that was never about him in the first place. What a waste.
> 
> Considering how much enthusiasm there clearly is to see Red Hood, I don't know why there wasn't a Red Hood series to begin with. Not a spin off though. Titans is pretty awful in terms of writing, I don't think it deserves 'spin-offs'. 
> If it's source material that's needed, then the comics are right there, I'd much rather have fresh new shows with none of the 'inspiration' from this Titans series.


An Outlaws Series would be good. A personal preference would be based on the Rebirth Outlaws.

----------


## numberthirty

> concept art looks cool. I like the spray painted logo on the chest. *I'm just skeptical of how he'll be portrayed by the current actor. Or how he'll fill out that uniform lol*


That's one thing.

I'm a bit more uncertain of how they are going to shoehorn the entire story line in question into what they are doing.

----------


## Restingvoice

The helmet looks big because of Curran's proportion. He's much shorter and thinner than the 6 feet and above superhero build.

----------


## Darkcrusade25

Yeah y’all will like RHO #50 over 3 Jokers. That story was not a good Jason story.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Yeah y’all will like RHO #50 over 3 Jokers. That story was not a good Jason story.


Not that I was expecting differently, but remember how Fabok was adamant that this would be THE Jason Todd story?

----------


## Rise

If the three jokers ended with Jason leaving the Red Hood mantle (and vigilante life) behind and taking his first step in healing and actually living with having Bruce and Barbara helping him out, I would have called it the ultimate Jason story. Unfortunately, the writers (and some fans too tbh) obsession with continuity is what hurt it.

----------


## Zaresh

> If the three jokers ended with Jason leaving the Red Hood mantle (and vigilante life) behind and taking his first step in healing and actually living with having Bruce and Barbara helping him out, I would have called it the ultimate Jason story. Unfortunately, the writers (and some fans too tbh) obsession with continuity is what hurt it.


I would like that, I think.

----------


## Arsenal

If you slightly tweak Jason’s letter at the end, 3 Jokers could feel like the bridge between UTH Jason and the New52/Rebirth Jason.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Yeah, no.

Jason made the exact same mistake that Tynion did in his brief run in RHATO, think that Jason is the kind of guy that lacks the initiative to do anything on his own. That he is someone that needs of someone telling him what to do.

Honestly I don't understand how they can keep make that mistake when if there's something that defines Jason is his total and complete compromise to his beliefs. Hell, the whole reason he is Red Hood is precisely because he decided to take upon himself to do that what Bruce can't to stop crime.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

See? The pit heals all scars.

----------


## Jackalope89

Issue #50, bittersweet though the ending was, was still enjoyable. And Jason and Artemis did become more than friends, but not quite a couple. 

*spoilers:*
And Pup Pup helping out and being support for Duela, now no longer wanting to be "Joker's Daughter", is pretty cool too. Alas, Ma Gunn never revealed who she was to Jason. And what happened to Dog!? Won't someone please think of Dog!?
*end of spoilers*

----------


## redmax99

> See? The pit heals all scars.


that maybe how the pit work but it been more than 4 to 5 years that boy has scars

----------


## Konja7

> that maybe how the pit work but it been more than 4 to 5 years that boy has scars


Yeah. Jason should have a lot of new scars in his body after all the fights he had since he bath in the pit. 

I guess scars only appear in comics when these are important for the story.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> that maybe how the pit work but it been more than 4 to 5 years that boy has scars


Sure, but none of those are from the bomb or the crowbar.

----------


## Konja7

> Sure, but none of those are from the bomb or the crowbar.


Honestly, considering the popular and profitable Three Jokers has been, I wouldn't be surprised DC will add this story to the canon in the future (and the scars from the bomb and crowbar could return).

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Honestly, considering the popular and profitable Three Jokers has been, I wouldn't be surprised DC will add this story to the canon in the future (and the scars from the bomb and crowbar could return).


Has it? There are no objective sources for sales data about DC books and either way, book sales don't equal quality and lots of people online agree that the series came down in flames in the final issue.

----------


## Arsenal

If anything Jason related from 3 Jokers enters canon, it’ll be that he shot & killed a Joker. I highly doubt anything else will.

----------


## Konja7

> Has it? There are no objective sources for sales data about DC books and either way, book sales don't equal quality and lots of people online agree that the series came down in flames in the final issue.


I agree that sales doesn't equal quality, but DC likely cares more about the sales. 

Unfortunately, apart from sales, I don't know another reliable measure to popularity, since people's opinions vary a lot. 

I've read the sales of Three Jokers #1 were extremely good (around 300k), but I guess we don't have the old sources.

----------


## DragonPiece

Jason getting curved by 2 different red heads in the same day, hate to see it

----------


## Jackalope89

> Jason getting curved by 2 different red heads in the same day, hate to see it


Well, at least the Amazon went beyond "just friends" for a while.

----------


## Kalethas31

> See? The pit heals all scars.


Jason is a man of culture! nothing like good hips  :Big Grin:

----------


## RedQueen

Artemis and Jason honestly would be one of the better couples coming out of DC for a while. I actually give a damn about a batman character having a romance. Jason B/Babs and Bea/Dick are complete bores.

Also Artemis is awesome.

----------


## Kalethas31

> Artemis and Jason honestly would be one of the better couples coming out of DC for a while. I actually give a damn about a batman character having a romance. Jason B/Babs and Bea/Dick are complete bores.
> 
> Also Artemis is awesome.


she is a great character

----------


## Robanker

Not gonna lie, I expected them not to hook up because she's not in the solicits and yet I'm still disappointed. Their dynamic was a lot of fun and I worry Artemis is just going to drift into the background of Wonder Woman panels for a while now. It was nice while it lasted, I guess, and you can certainly read where it leaves off more as a "not right now" than a "no," but yeah. Whole thing just felt like "next writer doesn't want to deal with it, so bummer dudes."

----------


## Vordan

> Has it? There are no objective sources for sales data about DC books and either way, book sales don't equal quality and lots of people online agree that the series came down in flames in the final issue.


Lee said the first issue sold around 300k iirc and it’s been number 1 in the Comichron and ComiXology charts every time an issue has come out. I mean c’mon it’s Johns and Fabok doing Batman vs. the Joker, Batman fans seemingly never get tired of that ****.

----------


## scilover

Would say that the helmet looks a bit not cool. Should create a better helmet and more curves.

----------


## Sergard

> Jason is a man of culture! nothing like good hips


I'm surprised how much I low-key adore this little panel. I love the softness. i love the trust and emotional closeness. Even Jason's "I might love you" sounds more affectionate than a straight out "I love you" probably would have.

----------


## Jackalope89



----------


## Jackalope89



----------


## Restingvoice

> 


This is never not funny because it's kinda canon ^^

----------


## Kalethas31

> I'm surprised how much I low-key adore this little panel. I love the softness. i love the trust and emotional closeness. Even Jason's "I might love you" sounds more affectionate than a straight out "I love you" probably would have.


they make a good couple it is sad that they are no longer together!

----------


## RedBird

Looks like Jason is being featured as Red Hood on an upcoming Harley Quinn White Knight cover.

I saw the original post just yesterday and already it's apparently been posted again with an updated image and redesign of Jason.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Looks like Jason is being featured as Red Hood on an upcoming Harley Quinn White Knight cover.
> 
> I saw the original post just yesterday and already it's apparently been posted again with an updated image and redesign of Jason.


Link to the post?

----------


## RedBird

> Link to the post?


Sorry, I was having trouble posting for some reason. Still having trouble with images, but here's the links at least.

Old Design - https://www.instagram.com/p/CG3MmpoH62l/

Updated Design - https://www.instagram.com/p/CG5I0qKnHgG/

----------


## Jackalope89

> Sorry, I was having trouble posting for some reason. Still having trouble with images, but here's the links at least.
> 
> Old Design - https://www.instagram.com/p/CG3MmpoH62l/
> 
> Updated Design - https://www.instagram.com/p/CG5I0qKnHgG/


Guess I'll actually have to check out this series more studiously now. Plus the Harley in it isn't the psycho of the main universe, but one that actually did have a moral line of not crossing. And since Jason is going to be more than just a cameo now, it'll be interesting to see what happens with him. Especially as the first Robin in this universe.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Sorry, I was having trouble posting for some reason. Still having trouble with images, but here's the links at least.
> 
> Old Design - https://www.instagram.com/p/CG3MmpoH62l/
> 
> Updated Design - https://www.instagram.com/p/CG5I0qKnHgG/


Thanks!

Old Design


Re-design

----------


## RedBird

Thanks for the images, not sure why I was having trouble linking them before.  :Confused: 

The old design pretty much looks like Jason from the end of the second series, and the redesign seems to have updated the hair and nose. Murphy mentioned changing the nose as it was too same-y to most his leading male designs, and opted for a Capullo nose instead.

Also I checked the comments and according to one of Murphys replies, in this universe Bruce is apparently in his 50s, whilst Jason, being the first Robin and therefore closer to Bruces age, is in his 40s.

----------


## Zaresh

> Thanks!
> 
> Old Design
> 
> 
> Re-design


I like it.

----------


## cc008

> I like it.


The difference is amazing. I'm oddly fascinated by how much better he looks lol.

----------


## Zaresh

> The difference is amazing. I'm oddly fascinated by how much better he looks lol.


Yeep. I didn't mind the nose, to be honest. But overall, it looked too jaded to me. Now, it feels fitting, somehow. Just mature and weary enough, still with some fire on him.

Funny, he just changed hair and nose, as far as I can see.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> she is a great character


I am sad this is going to end... I hardly like canon couples and I fell for this one and with a no-good explanation Artemis is going away :///

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Bizarro figure from Mcfarlane Toys

----------


## Drako

> Bizarro figure from Mcfarlane Toys


LOL sorry to post about this here again, but i mentioned before that the Nightwing figure was a reused model when someone posted the video review of the pack with him and Red Hood. And now they are reusing the same model again with a different face.

McFarlane toys is cheap asf

----------


## Kalethas31

> Sorry, I was having trouble posting for some reason. Still having trouble with images, but here's the links at least.
> 
> Old Design - https://www.instagram.com/p/CG3MmpoH62l/
> 
> Updated Design - https://www.instagram.com/p/CG5I0qKnHgG/


awesome i love white knight

----------


## Aahz

After reading 3 Joker and Joker War, I find it wired that is apparently still OK for Jason to get rescued from the Joker by other Batfamily members, while Barbara always gets to kick his when that happens ...

----------


## Sergard

> Thanks for the images, not sure why I was having trouble linking them before. 
> 
> The old design pretty much looks like Jason from the end of the second series, and the redesign seems to have updated the hair and nose. Murphy mentioned changing the nose as it was too same-y to most his leading male designs, and opted for a Capullo nose instead.
> 
> Also I checked the comments and according to one of Murphys replies, in this universe Bruce is apparently in his 50s, whilst Jason, being the first Robin and therefore closer to Bruces age, is in his 40s.


What's a Capullo nose?

----------


## RedBird

> What's a Capullo nose?


That's the term that Murphy used in the post, it's most likely referring to the artist Greg Capullo and how he usually depicts noses (especially Bruces). 
Typically giving main characters either a straight or scooped bridge but with a very defined and slightly upwards tip at the end of the nose.

EDIT: Found an example from Capullo's Twitter, of Clark and Bruce.

----------


## Sergard

Shawn Martinbrough

_"New players in Gotham. #REDHOOD #51. Art by @Tony8Akins & Stefano Gaudiano. Colors by @paulmounts. Covers by @Danmora_c & @KaelNgu. Written by me & published by @DCComics. In stores Nov."_

----------


## Jackalope89

> Shawn Martinbrough
> 
> _"New players in Gotham. #REDHOOD #51. Art by @Tony8Akins & Stefano Gaudiano. Colors by @paulmounts. Covers by @Danmora_c & @KaelNgu. Written by me & published by @DCComics. In stores Nov."_


Practically nothing to go off of with that image. Other than they wear, I almost want to say African, masks. There's really not much to take from it.

----------


## Korath

> Shawn Martinbrough
> 
> _"New players in Gotham. #REDHOOD #51. Art by @Tony8Akins & Stefano Gaudiano. Colors by @paulmounts. Covers by @Danmora_c & @KaelNgu. Written by me & published by @DCComics. In stores Nov."_


I am a little... cautious.

I'm not sure having traditional masks of various African cultures thrown together on what seems to be bad guys is a good idea, for plenty of reasons.

----------


## Sergard

The Batman origin gets a new spin in Tales From the Dark Multiverse: Batman: Hush #1 preview

I really missed Dexter Soy's art.

----------


## cc008

> I really missed Dexter Soy's art.


Yeah, me too. One of my favorites.

----------


## RedBird

> The Batman origin gets a new spin in Tales From the Dark Multiverse: Batman: Hush #1 preview
> 
> I really missed Dexter Soy's art.


I really miss his art for Jason, it was truly the best, I hope we'll get to see more of it in the future.

Also, in regards to that preview. Dinah? I wonder what she's doing there. Every other character present is either associated with Gotham and/or Bruce.

----------


## Restingvoice

> I really miss his art for Jason, it was truly the best, I hope we'll get to see more of it in the future.
> 
> Also, in regards to that preview. Dinah? I wonder what she's doing there. Every other character present is either associated with Gotham and/or Bruce.


The Canary Dojo is in Gotham

----------


## Vordan

> I am a little... cautious.
> 
> I'm not sure having traditional masks of various African cultures thrown together on what seems to be bad guys is a good idea, for plenty of reasons.


The writer Shawn is black so Im not worried.

----------


## RedBird

> The Canary Dojo is in Gotham


Oh that's right, my mistake.

I keep associating her with Star City and Seattle so much, I forget she has roots in Gotham. I guess that kind of makes a bit more sense.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I really miss his art for Jason, it was truly the best, I hope we'll get to see more of it in the future.
> 
> Also, in regards to that preview. Dinah? I wonder what she's doing there. Every other character present is either associated with Gotham and/or Bruce.


They did say "Dinah Drake", not "Dinah Lance". Take that how you will.

...Still, I feel adverse to these grim/dark stories.

----------


## Sergard

> They did say "Dinah Drake", not "Dinah Lance". Take that how you will.
> 
> *...Still, I feel adverse to these grim/dark stories.*


I'm just here for Dexter Soy.

I've read very little of the Metal and Dark Multiverse stuff that DC has put out in the past. I'm not particularly interested in the idea of a Dark Multiverse in general. The main continuity is already dark enough.

----------


## RedBird

> I'm just here for Dexter Soy.
> 
> I've read very little of the Metal and Dark Multiverse stuff that DC has put out in the past. I'm not particularly interested in the idea of a Dark Multiverse in general. The main continuity is already dark enough.


Same here.

I enjoy Else worlds, different futures and what not, but in the case of these Dark Multiverse titles, it kind of takes the intrigue out when you know that as part of the running theme, all of these stories will end badly in some way. I don't necessarily mind dark stories, but since this series is all one shots, there's usually not enough time to bring about any sort of catharsis to the bleak, depressing, or twisted tales.

----------


## Sergard

Phillip Kennedy Johnson

_"BATMAN: HUSH is on shelves tomorrow, the latest installment of Tales of the Dark Multiverse from @DCComics! Featuring the stellar art team of @dextersoy, @ivanplascencia, and @troypeteri!_

----------


## RedBird

Well, on the specific prospect of hoping to see more of Dexter Soys Jason, Dark Multiverse Hush was somewhat neat and somewhat underwhelming.

It's certainly still always lovely to see Soys Jason, but just don't expect to see too much of it is all.


EDIT: Oh also, spoilers I guess for DCeased Dead Planet #5 *spoilers:*
Jason dies.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## RedBird

Here's a sneak peek of that same Harley Quinn White Knight cover, now with colour. Check out the Han Solo pants.  :Stick Out Tongue: 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CHGtiHrnUds/

According to Murphy's post, Jason will simply have a cameo in this particular series but will be addressed more in depth in future White Knight stuff.

----------


## redmax99

> Well, on the specific prospect of hoping to see more of Dexter Soys Jason, Dark Multiverse Hush was somewhat neat and somewhat underwhelming.
> 
> It's certainly still always lovely to see Soys Jason, but just don't expect to see too much of it is all.


i'll say this it was a good story for what it was, it just didn't go far enough and the last page didn't make sense.

----------


## Zaresh

> Here's a sneak peek of that same Harley Quinn White Knight cover, now with colour. Check out the Han Solo pants. 
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/CHGtiHrnUds/
> 
> According to Murphy's post, Jason will simply have a cameo in this particular series but will be addressed more in depth in future White Knight stuff.


I absolutely dig it. This is a design I definitely like. Like, a lot.

----------


## RedBird

> i'll say this it was a good story for what it was, it just didn't go far enough and the last page didn't make sense.


It was decent, though I think a longer format or multiple issues would have certainly served the story and characters better, would have loved to see some of them fleshed out a little more before the end. Also in regards to the last page, are you referring to specifically the imagery not making sense? Cause honestly I was a little puzzled at what was being depicted, but from what I could tell, it appears as though *spoilers:*
Bruce is holding Graysons body, and has either severed him or is standing atop multiple Talons.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## redmax99

never mind

----------


## RedBird

The scene with Jason at the end was pretty confusing too.
*spoilers:*
He was seen in the cage before the final showdown, so I guess in most likelihood it would make sense that he is still in it by the end, but that panel of him walking away is confusing. Either the walking away panel was simply meant to be an accompanying image of him as the press talk about the Gotham 'club scene bad boy'. In which case a 'photograph' of him would have made more sense for a moment like that. OR it could be that he did walk away and it simply is a colouring error, where upon the man in the cage at the end was actually meant to be Harvey. (Who was seen in a cage before the final showdown as well.)
*end of spoilers*

----------


## redmax99

> The scene with Jason at the end was pretty confusing too.
> *spoilers:*
> He was seen in the cage before the final showdown, so I guess in most likelihood it would make sense that he is still in it by the end, but that panel of him walking away is confusing. Either the walking away panel was simply meant to be an accompanying image of him as the press talk about the Gotham 'club scene bad boy'. In which case a 'photograph' of him would have made more sense for a moment like that. OR it could be that he did walk away and it simply is a colouring error, where upon the man in the cage at the end was actually meant to be Harvey. (Who was seen in a cage before the final showdown as well.)
> *end of spoilers*


that's the one i'm talking about. 

  i can't highlight so i was going to wait to say it. i must have really miss the last page cause i never notice the ending.

----------


## km_sus

oopop.jpg

Dexter's Jason with the white streak is *chef's kiss*

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Dark Multiverse: Hush is a weird story since it barely has anything to do with the original like it was the case with the previous specials. Due to that, they crammed a ridiculous amount of plot in such a limited space that ends up being incredibly underwhelming and Dexter's art is the only memorable thing to come from it. I said it before and I said it again, Jason looks dumb with that "streak" since it looks like he got plastered in the head with a bucket of white paint.

Not much to say about DCeased other than this proves without a shadow of a doubt that Taylor has *zero* interest in Jason as a character.

----------


## km_sus

> I said it before and I said it again, Jason looks dumb with that "streak" since it looks like he got plastered in the head with a bucket of white paint.


I've always liked the white streak. Not only does it make Jason visually distinct from the other Robins, but it also serves as a constant physical reminder of Jason's trauma regarding his death.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I've always liked the white streak. Not only does it make Jason visually distinct from the other Robins, but it also serves as a constant physical reminder of Jason's trauma regarding his death.


You only need artists to not be lazy to get the robins to be visually distinct since Jason is the biggest and most muscular out of them. And the Red Hood persona already serves as a physical reminder of his trauma.

----------


## km_sus

> You only need artists to not be lazy to get the robins to be visually distinct since Jason is the biggest and most muscular out of them.


Definitely. I yearn for pages where Jason is drawn as absolutely freaking McHuge as he's supposed to be.




> And the Red Hood persona already serves as a physical reminder of his trauma.


Yeah but Jason isn't Red Hood all the time. I'm talking about in Jason's downtime, like when he looks in the bathroom mirror. Even though the lazarus pit can heal all scars and injuries, the idea of being constantly reminded of your unjust death even in your most private moments is something that I feel is core to Jason's anger, and I think the white streak represents it as a permanent reminder. Jason's body may be physically perfect, but the white streak is an imperfection in Jason's revival.

That being said I also appreciate the opposite side of that, where Jason has no physical scars or reminders, but they're all psychological/mental instead.

----------


## Konja7

> You only need artists to not be lazy to get the robins to be visually distinct since Jason is the biggest and most muscular out of them. And the Red Hood persona already serves as a physical reminder of his trauma.


This isn't only artists being lazy.

DC really likes its Batfamily stairs between Batman and (ex) Robins. So, they want Jason to be shorter than Dick and Bruce. 

I know there was data in the past that Jason should pretty tall and muscular, but I really doubt DC (or writers) care about this.

----------


## Jackalope89

> This isn't only artists being lazy.
> 
> DC really likes its Batfamily stairs between Batman and (ex) Robins. So, they want Jason to be shorter than Dick and Bruce. 
> 
> I know there was data in the past that Jason should pretty tall and muscular, but I really doubt DC (or writers) care about this.


And yet, fanfic writers make sure to point out that Jason is the biggest, Dick is the acrobat, Tim is Tim, and Damian is the youngest. And, usually, all it needs is just a line or two. In comics, not even that.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> This isn't only artists being lazy.
> 
> DC really likes its Batfamily stairs between Batman and (ex) Robins. So, they want Jason to be shorter than Dick and Bruce. 
> 
> I know there was data in the past that Jason should pretty tall and muscular, but I really doubt DC (or writers) care about this.


They've been consistent nowadays about keeping the height accurate, and Gleason even issued an apology when he drew Dick taller than Jason during the N52.

----------


## Arsenal

I prefer purely psychological reminders since him being Res Hood at all is a good enough physical reminder as is.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Yeah but Jason isn't Red Hood all the time. I'm talking about in Jason's downtime, like when he looks in the bathroom mirror. Even though the lazarus pit can heal all scars and injuries, the idea of being constantly reminded of your unjust death even in your most private moments is something that I feel is core to Jason's anger, and I think the white streak represents it as a permanent reminder. Jason's body may be physically perfect, but the white streak is an imperfection in Jason's revival.


You're asking for a Jason that is unable to move on and is firmly stuck in the past, and that is the worst thing you can do for a character's longevity. Again, the biggest achievement of Lobdell's run is making Jason able to move on and work into improving himself rather than keep dwelling on the past.

----------


## Aahz

At least the Gotham Knights Game seems to get it right, that Jason completely dwarfs the other characters.

----------


## Sergard

After reading _Tales from the Dark Multiverse - Batman: Hush_ I have to say that I definitely consider main continuity "darker" than this universe.

----------


## km_sus

> You're asking for a Jason that is unable to move on and is firmly stuck in the past, and that is the worst thing you can do for a character's longevity. Again, the biggest achievement of Lobdell's run is making Jason able to move on and work into improving himself rather than keep dwelling on the past.


No, I actually really like Lobdell's version of Jason and what he did in RHatO. I'm all for Jason moving forward actually. I'm all for him and Bruce forgiving each other, Jason having a better relationship with the other members of the family and for a sustained romantic interest with someone like Artemis.

That being said, you cannot deny that Jason's death and rebirth was not THE most formative event of his life and that it will continue to cause him pain for as long as he lives. This is all personal opinion, but I would prefer that Jason continue to kill criminals. Maybe not low level henchman who are just trying to provide for their family, like Jason's father was, but big villains like Bane and Ra's al Ghul who Jason would despise. Ultimately, his hatred for villains and criminals and his desire to lethally punish them stems from his death at the hands of the Joker and the trauma that surrounds that. Jason can move on from his death and no longer be stuck in the past, but we have to acknowledge that his death changed his worldview permanently. He can never go back to abiding by Batman's ethics and code, because he does not view them as effective. That is why the white streak could be visually important for Jason. Despite moving on from past events, the white streak remains - a permanent reminder of what has happened and why he believes his methods are important.

----------


## Sergard

@Dark: Do you know more about this?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> No, I actually really like Lobdell's version of Jason and what he did in RHatO. I'm all for Jason moving forward actually. I'm all for him and Bruce forgiving each other, Jason having a better relationship with the other members of the family and for a sustained romantic interest with someone like Artemis.
> 
> That being said, you cannot deny that Jason's death and rebirth was not THE most formative event of his life and that it will continue to cause him pain for as long as he lives. This is all personal opinion, but I would prefer that Jason continue to kill criminals. Maybe not low level henchman who are just trying to provide for their family, like Jason's father was, but big villains like Bane and Ra's al Ghul who Jason would despise. Ultimately, his hatred for villains and criminals and his desire to lethally punish them stems from his death at the hands of the Joker and the trauma that surrounds that. Jason can move on from his death and no longer be stuck in the past, but we have to acknowledge that his death changed his worldview permanently. He can never go back to abiding by Batman's ethics and code, because he does not view them as effective. That is why the white streak could be visually important for Jason. Despite moving on from past events, the white streak remains - a permanent reminder of what has happened and why he believes his methods are important.


I feel like you're contradicting yourself here. Jason moving forward and growing as a person means he's able to understand that killing is not the only option to deal with crime and that he can play by Bruce's rules if the situation calls for it. The description you're giving for Jason also sounds a lot like for you, Jason is defined by his hatred and that is something he was able to move from it during Lobdell's run, so that would be a regression for his character. Hell, just look at Jason's closing thoughts in issue 50 where he says he never took the time to be grateful for the fact he was given a second shot at life. 

With that said, Jason will never forget the events that lead to his death and keep being the biggest motivation behind his actions, making the white streak becomes redundant as a reminder for that. 




> @Dark: Do you know more about this?


Nope, first time I hear of it. Hopefully, it will be a regular release this time.

----------


## km_sus

> I feel like you're contradicting yourself here.


Entirely possible, I'm not a very coherent person lol. But I mean, someone can move on from a traumatic event and a dark time in their life while still retaining elements from their old mentality.

I actually think we agree on way more than we disagree. I do like Lobdell and that he moved Jason forward into realising that killing someone isn't always the solution, which is a direction I like. I don't think Jason's primary motivator is anger either, only that his death and the pain that it had informs a lot of the big decisions he makes.

I do disagree on Jason working with Bruce. In my opinion if Jason is killing people and not trying to stop, then Bruce would have no tolerance for it, although I understand that is not the direction editorial wants to go with him and it's just my personal view. We also disagree on the white streak but uh << I'll just leave it for now

----------


## Sergard

> [...]
> Nope, first time I hear of it. Hopefully, it will be a regular release this time.




source: Twitter

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> source: Twitter


So if I'm getting it right, is an exclusive of Funko's web shop?

----------


## Sergard

> So if I'm getting it right, is an exclusive of Funko's web shop?


I think so.




> Entirely possible, I'm not a very coherent person lol. But I mean, someone can move on from a traumatic event and a dark time in their life while still retaining elements from their old mentality.
> 
> I actually think we agree on way more than we disagree. I do like Lobdell and that he moved Jason forward into realising that killing someone isn't always the solution, which is a direction I like. I don't think Jason's primary motivator is anger either, only that his death and the pain that it had informs a lot of the big decisions he makes.
> *
> I do disagree on Jason working with Bruce*. In my opinion if Jason is killing people and not trying to stop, then Bruce would have no tolerance for it, although I understand that is not the direction editorial wants to go with him and it's just my personal view. We also disagree on the white streak but uh << I'll just leave it for now


To be fair, I don't want Jason to work with anyone in the batfamily. DC has completely butchered the concept of "heroes who don't kill". DC has butchered the concept of heroes in general, to be honest.

Having a no-kill-rule is not morally superior to not having a no-kill-rule and it's mind-boggling how straight out obsessed DC writers are to prove otherwise.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I keep waiting for Jason to get the spotlight in the Gotham Knights twitter but now is obvious they're leaving him for the last.

----------


## AJpyro

Read the last of Outlaws.

I enjoyed it but I do wish we coulda had a moment with King of H*ll Bizarro. I'm not sure I'm gonna continue to read though.

----------


## Restingvoice

I need confirmation if there's any, on whose idea it was to make Jason work in the Bat-Family. My prime suspect is Didio because one of his earliest ideas, when he came to DC, was to make Jason Nightwing, and then he said he likes 52. That's when Jason became a good guy for an extended time. Then of course, when New 52 came, Red Hood and The Outlaws were created where the main idea is redemption, and the book itself is pretty much the Titans title when there was no official Titans book, and despite being low-selling, it's not getting canceled when at that time low selling titles are getting axed left and right.

----------


## Aahz

> To be fair, I don't want Jason to work with anyone in the batfamily. DC has completely butchered the concept of "heroes who don't kill".


For some reason it seems less of a problem when they make team ups with Batfamily members and characters other than Jason.
Stuff like Dick teaming up with Tiger, Midnighter or raptor worked fine.
In the Outsiders we had Katana an Shiva.
In Batman we have currently Harley and Clown Hunter.

When it comes to Jason in Batfamily stories ...


Btw. he doesn't necessarily have to kill, he could be just more Brutal (like in the Grave Yard fight in Three Jokers) or use otherwise tactics the other Batfamily members wouldn't use.

----------


## Sergard

> I need confirmation if there's any, on whose idea it was to make Jason work in the Bat-Family. My prime suspect is Didio because one of his earliest ideas, when he came to DC, was to make Jason Nightwing, and then he said he likes 52. That's when Jason became a good guy for an extended time. Then of course, when New 52 came, Red Hood and The Outlaws were created where the main idea is redemption, and the book itself is pretty much the Titans title when there was no official Titans book, and despite being low-selling, it's not getting canceled when at that time low selling titles are getting axed left and right.


Didio is gone and Jason is still part of the batfamily.







> For some reason it seems less of a problem when they make team ups with Batfamily members and characters other than Jason.
> Stuff like Dick teaming up with Tiger, Midnighter or raptor worked fine.
> In the Outsiders we had Katana an Shiva.
> In Batman we have currently Harley and Clown Hunter.
> 
> When it comes to Jason in Batfamily stories ...
> 
> 
> Btw. he doesn't necessarily have to kill, he could be just more Brutal (like in the Grave Yard fight in Three Jokers) or use otherwise tactics the other Batfamily members wouldn't use.


Befriending enemies - like we got with Bizarro, Crux, Suzie, Vessel and Duela - is a tactic the other batfamily members don't use.  :Cool:

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I need confirmation if there's any, on whose idea it was to make Jason work in the Bat-Family. My prime suspect is Didio because one of his earliest ideas, when he came to DC, was to make Jason Nightwing, and then he said he likes 52. That's when Jason became a good guy for an extended time. Then of course, when New 52 came, Red Hood and The Outlaws were created where the main idea is redemption, and the book itself is pretty much the Titans title when there was no official Titans book, and despite being low-selling, it's not getting canceled when at that time low selling titles are getting axed left and right.


The redemption angle was 100% Lobdell. It was one of the conditions he asked to write RHATO in the first place.

----------


## Arsenal

I do think Jason’s redemption was an inevitably regardless. Even if it was just during some event shortly before he died again.

----------


## Aahz

They allready went in that direction in Countdown, they just changed direction half way through.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Yeah but after Countdown the editorial  mandate was "turn Jason into Dick's Joker"

----------


## 4sake Baned

https://screenrant.com/batman-red-ho...a-fan-art/amp/

----------


## Zaresh

> https://screenrant.com/batman-red-ho...a-fan-art/amp/


Nah, it's kind of old, and not really news, honestly. It was some reaction to John Boyega commenting in Twitter that he likes Red Hood a lot. Twitter went nuts, and we got a bunch of good fanarts from it  :Smile:   :Cool:

----------


## Sergard

PIAB EXC DC Comics Red Hood Jason Todd Funko Pop! Vinyl

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Interesting, this is the N52 version.

----------


## Shadowcat

Oof. I went overboard on a bat buying spree. I bought the first 50 issues of Red Hood, Nightwing, and a large chunk of the Tynion Tec run.

----------


## Celgress

> PIAB EXC DC Comics Red Hood Jason Todd Funko Pop! Vinyl


Oh, I want this, so epic.  :Smile:

----------


## Sergard

> Oof. I went overboard on a bat buying spree. I bought the first 50 issues of Red Hood, Nightwing, and a large chunk of the Tynion Tec run.


Enjoy.  :Smile: 
There isn't a lot of new stuff coming out and a lot of it is event-heavy. Furthermore, there are only two "normal" months left before two months of filler with Future State hit. So it's a good time for going back and reading some runs.

Maybe this time I finally manage to read Sandman.

--------------

Finalized Red Hood #51 cover

----------


## cc008

> Oof. I went overboard on a bat buying spree. I bought the first 50 issues of Red Hood, Nightwing, and a large chunk of the Tynion Tec run.


When I caught up to the books I wanted, I bought complete lots of Batman, Red Hood, Nightwing, and Tec. You're not alone. 

I like the new Pop. Even if it is quite similar to the first one.

Edit - I pre ordered it  :Smile:  I'm a sucker for a good Pop

----------


## Shadowcat

> Enjoy. 
> There isn't a lot of new stuff coming out and a lot of it is event-heavy. Furthermore, there are only two "normal" months left before two months of filler with Future State hit. So it's a good time for going back and reading some runs.
> 
> Maybe this time I finally manage to read Sandman.
> 
> --------------
> 
> Finalized Red Hood #51 cover


Does this mean Jason goes solo?

----------


## Jman27

looks like it

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Does this mean Jason goes solo?





> looks like it


It was confirmed a couple of months ago.

----------


## Shadowcat

> It was confirmed a couple of months ago.


I’m fine with that. Jason has always been my favorite Robin anyway.

----------


## Sergard

> Does this mean Jason goes solo?


Yes and the Rebirth run of _Red Hood and the Outlaws_ gets a second title change.
Issue 1 - 25: _Red Hood and the Outlaws_ (about Jason, Artemis and Bizarro)
Issue 26 - 50: _Red Hood: Outlaw_ (starts with Jason solo, Artemis and Bizarro return later on, around issue 40)
Issue 51 - 52: _Red Hood_ (Jason is solo, this is a two-issue story by Shawn Martinbrough with art by Tony Akins)

After that, we have the Future State event in January and February. 

As far as we know, all titles will return in March. But we don't know the creative team for _Red Hood_ #53+.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I looked at TvTropes page for Three Jokers and there's two things it stood out to me, the sheer dislike of everything with multiple editors pointing out the multiple plot holes of the story, something I kind of expected. And those same editors arguing that Jason's letter to Barbara at the end is mysoginistic, now that is new. 

Either way, the series in general seems to be generally loathed online.

----------


## Sergard

Shawn Martinbrough

_"Another addition to the #DCU. #REDHOOD #51. Art by @Tony8Akins & Stefano Gaudiano. Lettering by @troypeteri. Color by @paulmounts. Covers by @Danmora_c & @KaelNgu. Written by me & published by @DCComics. In stores this month."_

----------


## gwhh

Jason evolution  in movies and tv:

https://youtu.be/iyvwRdE8uZE

----------


## Shadowcat

> Yes and the Rebirth run of _Red Hood and the Outlaws_ gets a second title change.
> Issue 1 - 25: _Red Hood and the Outlaws_ (about Jason, Artemis and Bizarro)
> Issue 26 - 50: _Red Hood: Outlaw_ (starts with Jason solo, Artemis and Bizarro return later on, around issue 40)
> Issue 51 - 52: _Red Hood_ (Jason is solo, this is a two-issue story by Shawn Martinbrough with art by Tony Akins)
> 
> After that, we have the Future State event in January and February. 
> 
> As far as we know, all titles will return in March. But we don't know the creative team for _Red Hood_ #53+.


Hows Artemis portrayed in this book?

----------


## Jackalope89

> How’s Artemis portrayed in this book?


Pretty well. Tough, and in the beginning she tries not to get too involved, but forms strong bonds with Jason and Bizarro.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Huh, the character bio in the newest Funko Pop combines Jason's Post-Crisis and N52 backstories. I wonder if there was a similar situation in the previous Pop.

----------


## Sergard

> Hows Artemis portrayed in this book?





> Pretty well. Tough, and in the beginning she tries not to get too involved, but forms strong bonds with Jason and Bizarro.


This.

Thanks to Red Hood and the Outlaws, Artemis has become my favorite female DC character.

---

Cute fanart from Twitter.

source: @54x10_1x0

----------


## Sergard

I'm confused. Is this the same Red Hood figure?

source: Twitter

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Seems to be the same figure, yeah. It is very strange that new toys keep popping out but no pre-orders for them.

----------


## Trt-R5

> Huh, the character bio in the newest Funko Pop combines Jason's Post-Crisis and N52 backstories. I wonder if there was a similar situation in the previous Pop.


I really wish they ignored the new 52 "joker orchestrated everything" origin and stayed with the stealing Batman's tires one. 
There are a lot of things I liked about lobdell's red hood run, but that wasn't one of them...

----------


## Sergard

> Seems to be the same figure, yeah. It is very strange that new toys keep popping out but no pre-orders for them.


The solo pack is still awesome news. (And Azrael looks f*cking epic.)

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I really wish they ignored the new 52 "joker orchestrated everything" origin and stayed with the stealing Batman's tires one. 
> There are a lot of things I liked about lobdell's red hood run, but that wasn't one of them...


If you notice, they kept both.

----------


## Sergard

Shawn Martinbrough

_"Another new character for the #DCU. #REDHOOD #51. Art by @Tony8Akins & Stefano Gaudiano. Lettering by @troypeteri. Color by @paulmounts. Covers by @Danmora_c & @KaelNgu. Written by me & published by @DCComics. In stores this month."_

----------


## Trt-R5

> If you notice, they kept both.


I know. I just feel that the whole joker thing takes from Jason character. I like him as a clever street kid who impressed Bruce and made him laugh in the aniversary of his parents death, in the exact same place, and how their relationship progressed from that. 
Somehow, making the joker the one behind it taints the sweet moment for me. 
But I understand that some people might disagree

----------


## Sergard

> I know. I just feel that the whole joker thing takes from Jason character. *I like him as a clever street kid who impressed Bruce and made him laugh in the anniversary of his parents death, in the exact same place, and how their relationship progressed from that.* 
> Somehow, making the joker the one behind it taints the sweet moment for me. 
> But I understand that some people might disagree


I think most fans like this version. I can't remember anyone actually enjoying the New52 version with Joker. As you say, it takes away from Jason's character.

On the other hand, DC constantly takes stuff away from Jason's character. Only a few issues after his post-crisis introduction the whole moment in the alley already was retconned into Bruce taking Jason in because he had missed Dick. Horrible story.

----------


## Zaresh

I don't think it matters a lot if the funko guys decide to use some mixture for his backstory, to be honest ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

----------


## Arsenal

The Joker version works best as Jason’s irrational fear brought to life via fear gas or some equivalent hallucination. It shouldn’t be the actual story of what happens but some tale Joker spins to mess with his head.

----------


## cc008

> The Joker version works best as Jason’s irrational fear brought to life via fear gas or some equivalent hallucination. It shouldn’t be the actual story of what happens but some tale Joker spins to mess with his head.


Yes I agree with this. Makes complete sense this way

----------


## Sergard

There isn't really a lot to look forward to right now.

There's Red Hood #51 and #52 by Shawn Martinbrough. I am excited for Jason interacting with completely new characters (and yes, this is partly because I'm too tired of _certain_ "discussions"). On the other hand, the story plays in Gotham - and I'm tired of Gotham too. (But with so many new characters I at least hope that there won't be any surprise appearances of the batfamily.)

----------


## Zaresh

> There isn't really a lot to look forward to right now.
> 
> There's Red Hood #51 and #52 by Shawn Martinbrough. I am excited for Jason interacting with completely new characters (and yes, this is partly because I'm too tired of _certain_ "discussions"). On the other hand, the story plays in Gotham - and I'm tired of Gotham too. (But with so many new characters I at least hope that there won't be any surprise appearances of the batfamily.)


It's not like the batfam works in Gothan a lot nowadays. And when they work in the city, it's not this new-but-not-new neighbourhood. As I said before, I'm looking forward to these two last issues. I hope it ends up being a good read. And, with some lucky if it is good, something that carries on the book after this nonsense new event.

And there's White Knight too. I absolutely forgot about that one.
Maybe my time for go and read Carey's Lucifer has finally come.

----------


## RedBird

> Dexter's Jason with the white streak is *chef's kiss*


100% Agreed.  :Big Grin: 




> There isn't really a lot to look forward to right now.


Yeah, it feels as though everything is winding down, especially now with the two month gap created by future state.




> There isn't really a lot to look forward to right now.
> 
> There's Red Hood #51 and #52 by Shawn Martinbrough. I am excited for Jason interacting with completely new characters (and yes, this is partly because I'm too tired of _certain_ "discussions"). *On the other hand, the story plays in Gotham - and I'm tired of Gotham too. (But with so many new characters I at least hope that there won't be any surprise appearances of the batfamily.)*


Same here. I hope it remains a one off moment because otherwise it feels absurd to have Jason limited to Gotham and the Batfamily, when there is literally nothing tying him to the city or the family. Also, Jason, along with Dick, Kate, Cass, Duke, and Babs all show up in Tec 1030 in a group meeting to talk about how the city is turning on them, and the people of Gotham are seen harassing and sabotaging them, all the while Bruce asks them about Damian and to be on the lookout since Bruce wants to chat with him. Tec has been pretty meh overall, so I'm definitely not recommending the title, plus the entire family will most likely end up as props for the sake of Damians story anyway. It's a Tomasi book after all. But Tec just demonstrates the glaring problem of Jasons inclusion here when there is no urgency or time sensitive threat over Gotham, again, nothing is tying Jason to the city and last time Jason actually interacted with Bruce one on one, or had the pleasure of a 'chat' was in the Prince of Gotham arc where Bruce was attempting to arrest Jason for returning to Gotham, since then the only interactions between them have been 'emergencies' in some way or another but considering the emergency is now over I fail to see why he is sticking around or why there is no acknowledgement of their clash.

It's almost ridiculous now, since the current status quo is that technically, Jason is in a city that doesn't want him there, with a family that doesn't want him there, fighting crime _under the strict supervision_ of a mentor/father figure that doesn't want him there either. So why he doesn't pack up and leave to fight crime elsewhere is anyone's guess. But he is in Gotham anyway, because instead of ever being properly utilised as the lethal or rogue member of the bats, he is now making a successful transformation into 'background batperson number #7' I guess.


If the rumours about Clownhunter being Red X were true then Jason being Bao's mentor would have given him a legitimate reason to play nicely in Gotham since similar to the Outlaw kids he'd be trying to reel in someone else's more violent tendencies. Making the Red X identity which was long rumoured to be Jason Todd thanks to Beast Boy in the original show itself, (so technically by the shows creators) and having it turn out to be his student instead, thereby doing what the show always did and tying Jason Todd to the title but without it actually being him under the mask and giving the Red Hood a legacy in the form of Red X would have been kind of neat. Plus having Jasons student be someone who is also a misguided kid with a hatred for clowns since they uprooted his life, it all fits pretty well whilst still staying true to the original intrigue and theories surrounding the Red X character. I don't think that's where the story is going at all, (and I don't know how I would feel about Tynion writing Jason again anyway), but still, it honestly would make a lot of sense.




> It's not like the batfam works in Gothan a lot nowadays. And when they work in the city, it's not this new-but-not-new neighbourhood. As I said before, I'm looking forward to these two last issues. I hope it ends up being a good read. And, with some lucky if it is good, something that carries on the book after this nonsense new event.


So far this appears like a somewhat sequel to the original Batman: The Hill comic, which is really intriguing. I really liked the original but I also hope there is a difference to the approach between the original with Batman and now with the Red Hood.

----------


## Zaresh

If this stuff with that magistrate guy is true and the way it seems to go, then I think we're going to have Jason in Gotham, because editorial or someone else may want him there for street level stories for a while.

I'm just hoping for it to be good and its own stuff outside any big epic great  awesome batfam storyline after future shock ends. So a new zone of the city with new characters, troubles and conflics is what I wish to happen in these circumbstances. I don't mind star guestings of the batfam itself here and there, but please DC people, make sense, be meausred. We're reading a book about Jason. Play nice with these toys we love.

----------


## Sergard

*sigh*

artist: lost_piero



(I think we all know who would be the stay-at-home parent in this relationship.)

----------


## Jackalope89

> *sigh*
> 
> artist: lost_piero
> 
> 
> 
> (I think we all know who would be the stay-at-home parent in this relationship.)


Gokushufudou (Way of the House Husband) makes it work remarkably well. Also one of the funniest and most wholesome manga I've come across. Still, would love to see this explored more.

----------


## Celgress

> *sigh*
> 
> artist: lost_piero
> 
> 
> 
> (I think we all know who would be the stay-at-home parent in this relationship.)


(We sure do.  :Wink:  ) 

Sweet family portrait.  :Cool:

----------


## Sergard

> Gokushufudou (Way of the House Husband) makes it work remarkably well. Also one of the funniest and most wholesome manga I've come across. Still, would love to see this explored more.


Off-topic: I love that manga too. So far I have read the first three volumes and it's pure fun.


On-topic: Obligatory cute stuff with Jason (and the Outlaws):

artist: hyaena666





artist: Javechan

----------


## RedBird

Aww so many lil Red Hoods to choose from  :Smile: 

Hard to choose just one, but for sure, I'm gonna need a figurine of that lil tired Red Hood with the #1 Outlaw mug.

----------


## Zaresh

> Aww so many lil Red Hoods to choose from 
> 
> Hard to choose just one, but for sure, I'm gonna need a figurine of that lil tired Red Hood with the #1 Outlaw mug.


They released a sticker pack for whatsapp. Adorable.

----------


## Sergard

Judd Winick

Twitter Judd Winick 12-11-2020.jpg

----------


## Jackalope89

> Judd Winick
> 
> Twitter Judd Winick 12-11-2020.jpg


Judd Winick back on Jason? Would be interesting. The guy who did UTRH as well as that fun little one-shot not long ago, that could be interesting.

----------


## Trt-R5

> Judd Winick
> 
> Twitter Judd Winick 12-11-2020.jpg


In an interview some months ago he said it would be almost inevitable he would eventually do some more work with Jason (if I recall correctly)
That it was more a question of timing and if he came up with some interesting idea he would like to explore. 
But with the current cutbacks in pay for creators in DC, I dunno if that wouldn't affect that possibility...

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Judd Winnick can only write Jason as an edgy mary sue that can't stop backstabbing everyone so I hope he never gets to write Jason in a long term capacity.

----------


## Sergard

Titans Red Hood Spin-Off Series in the Works at HBO Max




> The HBO Max streaming service is developing a Red Hood solo series, this show is supposed to be a spin-off of Titans. Red Hood is what the character of Jason Todd (played by actor Curran Walters) becomes in the third season of Titans.
> 
> Topics:
> 
>     Who is Red Hood?
>     A Live-Action Red Hood Television Series?
>     What Other Characters Could Appear In The Red Hood Show?
>     Is Titans Canceled In Favor of the Red Hood Series?
>     Are We Getting Any Other Titans Spin-Off Shows?
> ...

----------


## Sergard

> Judd Winnick can only write Jason as an edgy mary sue that can't stop backstabbing everyone so I hope he never gets to write Jason in a long term capacity.


Chill a little. Judd Winick has no plans to come back to write any series.

----------


## Shadowcat

> Enjoy. 
> There isn't a lot of new stuff coming out and a lot of it is event-heavy. Furthermore, there are only two "normal" months left before two months of filler with Future State hit. So it's a good time for going back and reading some runs.
> 
> Maybe this time I finally manage to read Sandman.
> 
> --------------
> 
> Finalized Red Hood #51 cover


Croc showing up, I hope they make him back into the criminal kingpin, and former enforcer he used to be.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

https://twitter.com/NikolaCizmesija/...84380334288897

----------


## Arsenal

DC)
 "Dark Detective" written by MARIKO TAMAKI
 "Dark Detective" art by DAN MORA
 "Red Hood" written by JOSHUA WILLIAMSON
 "Red Hood" art by GIANNIS MILONOGIANNIS
 cover by DAN MORA
 card stock variant cover by BRIAN BOLLAND
 ON SALE 2/23/21
 $5.99 US | 48 PAGES | 4 OF 4 | FC | DC
 CARD STOCK VARIANT COVER $6.99 US

Bruce Wayne may be a dead man in the eyes of the villainous Magistrate, but this dark detective isn't through yet! In this pulse-pounding finale, Bruce makes his final move and comes face to face with the man at the top of Gotham's oppressive regime, Peacekeeper One! With bombs planted and the trap waiting to be sprung, this final battle will decide the fate of Gotham City once and for all...

And after the events of the last "Red Hood" chapter, Jason Todd is a wanted man. He got too close to the mystery of the new Red Hood Gang, and that forced the Magistrate to take extreme measures—because no one can know the truth. Hurt and alone, Jason must turn to some unlikely allies if he's going to survive!

----------


## Zaresh

I have to say, I don't know what's happening anymore. So the next two issues are either a big flashforward, or these future shock issues aren't in the future anymore.

Or they screwed the solicits.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I have to say, I don't know what's happening anymore. So the next two issues are either a big flashforward, or these future shock issues aren't in the future anymore.
> 
> Or they screwed the solicits.


Is a possible future, they've emphasized that since the reveal.

----------


## Zaresh

> Is a possible future, they've emphasized that since the reveal.


Yeah, but the second half of this solicit talks about "after the events of the last "Red Hood" chapter, Jason Todd is a wanted man." And then, as if it were a direct, straight, close in time consequence of that, "He got too close to the mystery of the new Red Hood Gang, and that forced the Magistrate to take extreme measures—because no one can know the truth". What I understand by this is that after Red Hood 52, Jason ends being wanted by the authorities, these authorities being the magistrate, that is directly managing whatever happens with a new Red Hood gang. All this, since RH52 to the last part of the solicit, happening in the same present time, whenever that time is (now or in the future). Also, it drops Jason working for the magistrate, unless he works for them in Red Hood 51 and 52.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Yeah, but the second half of this solicit talks about "after the events of the last "Red Hood" chapter, Jason Todd is a wanted man." And then, as if it were a direct, straight, close in time consequence of that, "He got too close to the mystery of the new Red Hood Gang, and that forced the Magistrate to take extreme measures—because no one can know the truth". What I understand by this is that after Red Hood 52, Jason ends being wanted by the authorities, these authorities being the magistrate, that is directly managing whatever happens with a new Red Hood gang. All this, since RH52 to the last part of the solicit, happening in the same present time, whenever that time is (now or in the future). Also, it drops Jason working for the magistrate, unless he works for them in Red Hood 51 and 52.


They meant the previous chapter of Red Hood in Dark Detective #2



> "Also in this issue, Jason Todd is a haunted man. He’s working a job he hates on the violent streets of Gotham City as a mask hunter for the Magistrate! He takes contracts to catch villains—or heroes—and brings them in alive—mostly. But when the Red Hood gang reemerges, Jason must solve a mystery that could doom the city."

----------


## Zaresh

Ohhhh, wait. So these are new, not the previous ones re-written.

I feel really dumb now. Yeah, now it makes absolute sense :_D.

----------


## sifighter

> Croc showing up, I hope they make him back into the criminal kingpin, and former enforcer he used to be.


Doesn’t Red Hood actually have a friendship of sorts with Killer Croc because of Roy?

----------


## Sergard

> https://twitter.com/NikolaCizmesija/...84380334288897


That's some out of the box artstyle - I love it.  :Embarrassment: 






> DC)
>  "Dark Detective" written by MARIKO TAMAKI
>  "Dark Detective" art by DAN MORA
>  "Red Hood" written by JOSHUA WILLIAMSON
>  "Red Hood" art by GIANNIS MILONOGIANNIS
>  cover by DAN MORA
>  card stock variant cover by BRIAN BOLLAND
>  ON SALE 2/23/21
>  $5.99 US | 48 PAGES | 4 OF 4 | FC | DC
> ...


Jason's default setting since 1988 

At least "unlikely allies" suggests that it's nobody from the batfamily. I consider this a plus.






> Doesnt Red Hood actually have a friendship of sorts with Killer Croc because of Roy?


Friendship is probably a too strong word. But they are on friendly terms in RHatO #17.
I really liked that moment.

----------


## Sergard

source: Cosplus





source: Twitter

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> BATMAN: A DEATH IN THE FAMILY: THE DELUXE EDITION HC
> written by JIM STARLIN and MARV WOLFMAN
> art by JIM APARO, GEORGE PÉREZ, and others
> cover by JIM APARO
> ON SALE 4/13/21
> $49.99 US | 280 PAGES | FC | DC
> HARDCOVER | 7.0625" x 10.875"
> ISBN: 978-1-77951-917-8
> The game-changing Batman epic returns in a new deluxe edition hardcover! As the second person to assume the role of Batman's sidekick, Jason Todd had a completely different personality than the original Robin. Rash and prone to ignore Batman's instructions, Jason was always quick to act without regard to consequences. This story put Jason's fate in the readers' hands—who voted whether or not Robin should live or die at the hands of The Joker. This tale of loss, guilt, and brutality stands as one of the most defining pieces of the Dark Knight's mythology. Collects Batman #426-429 and #440-442, The New Teen Titans #60-61, *plus several never-before-published pages that show what would have happened if Jason Todd had lived!*


Now this is interesting.

----------


## Arsenal

Didn’t DC already print the “what if Jason survived?!?!” Version of DITF in one of the trades? I’m pretty sure that was a thing.

----------


## Sergard

> Now this is interesting.


Not really. We have already seen one and a half page of the "Jason lives" route - and the character would still have been thrown away by DC.
Furthermore, half of the book is about Tim's introduction. 

Jason is the only DC character who can't even call his death story his own because everyone else in the batfamily uses it as a prop to make themselves look superior.

----------


## cc008

I don't care how similar the Pops look, they both look great... better together, and I will have both  :Smile:

----------


## Jackalope89

> Not really. We have already seen one and a half page of the "Jason lives" route - and the character would still have been thrown away by DC.
> Furthermore, half of the book is about Tim's introduction. 
> 
> Jason is the only DC character who can't even call his death story his own because everyone else in the batfamily uses it as a prop to make themselves look superior.


Yep. Jason goes down a hero, even trying to shield his b**** of a bio-mom with his own battered body, and then gets crapped on for the next 20 years.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> Yep. Jason goes down a hero, even trying to shield his b**** of a bio-mom with his own battered body, and then gets crapped on for the next 20 years.


To be fair, he has the best series out of the four robins right now.

----------


## Jackalope89

> To be fair, he has the best series out of the four robins right now.


True. Dick suffered through 2 years of "Ric", thanks to Dan DiDio. Tim is still forever 16 with no real forward progress thus far. And Damian was character assassinated in Teen Titans.

----------


## Arsenal

> Not really. We have already seen one and a half page of the "Jason lives" route - and the character would still have been thrown away by DC.
> Furthermore, half of the book is about Tim's introduction. 
> 
> Jason is the only DC character who can't even call his death story his own because everyone else in the batfamily uses it as a prop to make themselves look superior.


To be fair, DITF is a pretty terrible story in general so Im not all that surprised.

----------


## RedBird

> Now this is interesting.





> Didn’t DC already print the “what if Jason survived?!?!” Version of DITF in one of the trades? I’m pretty sure that was a thing.


Yeah that particular page where Batman is holding Jason and happily says 'He's Alive!' has been printed and reprinted a few times in various trades, and what not. Even used in the DITF interactive film which I thought was a neat easter egg.

There was also an article featuring the page along with Jason in the hospital recovering shown here. https://www.cbr.com/dc-alternate-dea...he-family-art/

But I think what this statement of 'several never-before-published pages' is referring to is perhaps what was seen in this article featuring a screenshot from a segment which was looking at never before seen artwork from DC.

https://www.comicsbeat.com/batman-a-...t-jason-lives/

The pages in question feature Dick showing up at the hospital asking if Bruce needs help taking down the Joker. The page itself seems unfinished (unless it's purposefully empty) and according to the article had editorial notes asking to swap Dick out and replace him with Alfred instead for the scene. I'm assuming these are the panels that will be printed in the upcoming release. In the screenshot we can see three different pages (all with various levels of completion) making up that scene of Bruce finding Jason and being in the hospital by Jasons side with Dick visiting, but that said, there is a fourth page below the others that we aren't able to see in the screenshot, so maybe the new DITF release will feature an additional page along with the ones already shown here.

----------


## Sergard

Shawn Martinbrough

_"One of my favorite scenes from #REDHOOD #51. #JasonTodd having a beer, in The Hill on a lovely night in Gotham. Art by @Tony8Akins & Stefano Gaudiano. Color by @paulmounts. Covers by @Danmora_c & @KaelNgu. Written by me & published by @DCComics. In stores this month."_

----------


## Shadowcat

> Doesnt Red Hood actually have a friendship of sorts with Killer Croc because of Roy?


I dont know. Ive literally just read the first 2 books of the Rebirth era.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Shawn Martinbrough
> 
> _"One of my favorite scenes from #REDHOOD #51. #JasonTodd having a beer, in The Hill on a lovely night in Gotham. Art by @Tony8Akins & Stefano Gaudiano. Color by @paulmounts. Covers by @Danmora_c & @KaelNgu. Written by me & published by @DCComics. In stores this month."_


Yeah, mega-chin on Jason just looks weird.

----------


## Shadowcat

Noticed a theme so far. Dick is going under deep cover for the Owls, while Jason is doing the same for the regular criminal underworld. Does this theme interconnect with the titles, or was it just coincidental?

----------


## Shadowcat

Alsois there a Dick/Jason crossover storyline? It would be so perfect to see the first two Robins interact now that theyre grown men, and their experiences took them down very different paths.

----------


## Sergard

> I don’t know. I’ve literally just read the first 2 books of the Rebirth era.


Killer Croc generally has the problem that writers like to flip-flop between Killer Croc as villain or anti-villain/anti-hero.
That's a problem some other DC characters have too.




> Noticed a theme so far. Dick is going under deep cover for the Owls, while Jason is doing the same for the regular criminal underworld. Does this theme interconnect with the titles, or was it just coincidental?


Coincidental. Undercover missions are a regularly recurring theme in vigilante stories.




> Also—is there a Dick/Jason crossover storyline? It would be so perfect to see the first two Robins interact now that they’re grown men, and their experiences took them down very different paths.


Not really. There are some old and very one-sided stories from post-crisis written by Dick Grayson writers à la "look how perfect Dick Grayson is - and here's Jason Todd, the biggest loser that ever lived".

Dick has a guest appearance in Red Hood and the Outlaws Annual #1 (Rebirth run) though. It's one of the very few stories where Dick and Jason are portrayed as "brothers".

----------


## Aahz

There is also a short team up story of Dick and Jason in Gotham Knight #11, that was not bad.

Most other Crossovers, Batfamily events and Titans Together go unfortunately also for "look how perfect Dick Grayson (or Tim, or Barbara, or ...) is - and here's Jason Todd, the biggest loser that ever lived".

----------


## Jackalope89

> There is also a short team up story of Dick and Jason in Gotham Knight #11, that was not bad.
> 
> Most other Crossovers, Batfamily events and Titans Together go unfortunately also for "look how perfect Dick Grayson (or Tim, or Barbara, or ...) is - and here's Jason Todd, the biggest loser that ever lived".


Yep. Fanfics usually do a far better job of balancing out the Robins character wise than actual DC Comics do.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> Yep. Fanfics usually do a far better job of balancing out the Robins character wise than actual DC Comics do.



what fanfics would you recommend?

----------


## Jackalope89

> what fanfics would you recommend?


There's a list on page 1. Like the 2nd or 3rd post.

----------


## Zaresh

> There's a list on page 1. Like the 2nd or 3rd post.


Second post, that links to another post, and a guide.
For something more specific, it's better to just ask  :Smile: .
List isn't complete, but we do what we can  :Cool: .

----------


## Shadowcat

> Killer Croc generally has the problem that writers like to flip-flop between Killer Croc as villain or anti-villain/anti-hero.
> That's a problem some other DC characters have too.


I definitely can see that. I’m just over the Croc is a mutated monster, ala DC’s answer to the Lizard. Conway really fleshed Croc out into a character that I’d love to see writers do again.




> Coincidental. Undercover missions are a regularly recurring theme in vigilante stories.


I’m completely aware of that, I just thought the editor might have been setting up a theme to connect the two former Robins. 




> Not really. There are some old and very one-sided stories from post-crisis written by Dick Grayson writers à la "look how perfect Dick Grayson is - and here's Jason Todd, the biggest loser that ever lived".
> 
> Dick has a guest appearance in Red Hood and the Outlaws Annual #1 (Rebirth run) though. It's one of the very few stories where Dick and Jason are portrayed as "brothers".


I have most of the post Crisis stories, and you’re correct. Wolfman and Starlin really seemed to not like Jason, post Crisis. I did enjoy what Winnick did with him. Made him a very tragic, flawed character, who had every right to be upset with Bruce over the events of what happened.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Noticed a theme so far. Dick is going under deep cover for the Owls, while Jason is doing the same for the regular criminal underworld. Does this theme interconnect with the titles, or was it just coincidental?


Don't know how far you've read Detective, and I forget when he actually mention it, I think a year in, but Tim pointed this out so Batman... didn't really talk about it.

----------


## Aahz

> Noticed a theme so far. Dick is going under deep cover for the Owls, while Jason is doing the same for the regular criminal underworld. Does this theme interconnect with the titles, or was it just coincidental?


Technically predending to be a villain is something Jason is consistently doing, the writers usually just don't put much emphasis on that or ignore it.

----------


## Shadowcat

> Don't know how far you've read Detective, and I forget when he actually mention it, I think a year in, but Tim pointed this out so Batman... didn't really talk about it.


I just finished the Monster Men crossover. It was...rough. Which is sad. I absolutely love Steve Orlando, especially his Wonder Woman runs.

----------


## RedBird

> I just finished the Monster Men crossover. It was...rough. Which is sad. I absolutely love Steve Orlando, especially his Wonder Woman runs.


I also really love Orlando's Wonder Woman run, but, yeah, Night of the Monster Men sure was.....something. I mean, I get it, I don't think it was meant to be taken too seriously as a story, it does definitely have a lot of 'kaiju' elements after all. But I think I remember not being too much of a fan of it, since it felt like an unnecessary derailing of quite a few Rebirth titles that also was much too early into Rebirth. I think Nightwing was only onto its 5th issue when it got pulled into this crossover. 

Considering how self contained the story was, how zany the tone was, and how irrelevant it was to the books thereafter, I think it would have served better as a standalone miniseries similar to Batman Universe, rather than a main continuity based crossover.

----------


## Sergard

> [...]
> 
> I'm completely aware of that, I just thought the editor might have been setting up a theme to connect the two former Robins. 
> 
> [...]


Sorry if I sounded rude. I was tired.


---

Nick Robles has posted the October's Patreon Pinup - aka Jason - on Twitter. (Warning: NSFW)

@Zaresh: November's Patreon Pinup is going to be Zagreus (_Hades_ game).  :Embarrassment:  (source)

----------


## Zaresh

> Sorry if I sounded rude. I was tired.
> 
> 
> ---
> 
> Nick Robles has posted the October's Patreon Pinup - aka Jason - on Twitter. (Warning: NSFW)
> 
> *@Zaresh: November's Patreon Pinup is going to be Zagreus (Hades game). * (source)


Goood  :Big Grin: 
I love how many Zag fanarts I'm finding out there. People appreciating sweet Zag. He deserves everything.
Knowing fandom, I'm also expecting them to draw crossovers between both Jason and Zagreus. I'm guessing once Hades becomes GOTY, and it reaches a bigger audience, that they will come. It's just too easy, mixing both the batfam drama, and the House of Hades drama, and a few common traits and themes both characters share as well.

----------


## Sergard

> Goood 
> I love how many Zag fanarts I'm finding out there. People appreciating sweet Zag. He deserves everything.
> Knowing fandom, *I'm also expecting them to draw crossovers between both Jason and Zagreus*. I'm guessing once Hades becomes GOTY, and it reaches a bigger audience, that they will come. It's just too easy, mixing both the batfam drama, and the House of Hades drama, and a few common traits and themes both characters share as well.


That would be awesome. Like back when _Voltron: Legendary Defender_ was so popular and fan artists created some nice crossover fanarts with Shiro and Jason. Shiro and Young Justice Jason even have the same voice actor: Josh Keaton. That was a funny coincidence.


The _Red Hood_ #51 cover and variant look so good. Only one week left.

Shawn Martinbrough

_"And speak of the devil, my #REDHOOD comps just arrived in the mail from @DCComics. Look at that @KaelNgu cover!"_

----------


## Rac7d*

So all of Jason’s years of being a phychotic mad men will be returning?

----------


## cc008

DC does variant covers nicely

----------


## Restingvoice

> Sorry if I sounded rude. I was tired.
> 
> 
> ---
> 
> Nick Robles has posted the October's Patreon Pinup - aka Jason - on Twitter. (Warning: NSFW)
> 
> @Zaresh: November's Patreon Pinup is going to be Zagreus (_Hades_ game).  (source)


(reading the comments) Before Jason do people ever have a fetish for autopsy scar




> Goood 
> I love how many Zag fanarts I'm finding out there. People appreciating sweet Zag. He deserves everything.
> Knowing fandom, I'm also expecting them to draw crossovers between both Jason and Zagreus. I'm guessing once Hades becomes GOTY, and it reaches a bigger audience, that they will come. It's just too easy, mixing both the batfam drama, and the House of Hades drama, and a few common traits and themes both characters share as well.


Immediately I saw the parallel
Zag = Jason
Hades = Bruce
Meg = Artemis
Than = ...Diiiick? (immediate thought because he's dad's best boi)

It helps that the art looks similar to Dexter Soy's




> So all of Jason’s years of being a phychotic mad men will be returning?


Sorry, context?

----------


## RedBird

> Immediately I saw the parallel
> Zag = Jason
> Hades = Bruce
> Meg = Artemis
> Than = ...Diiiick? (immediate thought because he's dad's best boi)
> 
> It helps that the art looks similar to Dexter Soy's


Yes, Jason as Zag and Artemis as Meg, I thought the exact same thing. XD

Also can I add, Nocturna as Nyx.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> (reading the comments) Before Jason do people ever have a fetish for autopsy scar
> 
> 
> 
> Immediately I saw the parallel
> Zag = Jason
> Hades = Bruce
> Meg = Artemis
> Than = ...Diiiick? (immediate thought because he's dad's best boi)
> ...


Than = Roy
Achilles = Dick

Too much romantic tension with Than to pick a batsibling for him.

----------


## Sergard

Something cute from Twitter (source):





artist: Unmoving





artist: HEX

----------


## Restingvoice

> Yes, Jason as Zag and Artemis as Meg, I thought the exact same thing. XD
> 
> Also can I add, Nocturna as Nyx.


Good one




> Than = Roy
> Achilles = Dick
> 
> Too much romantic tension with Than to pick a batsibling for him.


I just can't imagine Roy as Than since these days Roy's rep is being incompetent while Than is efficient, but Achilles Dick works. 




> artist: Unmoving


Why does he wear that neck brace?

----------


## Sergard

> [...]
> 
> 
> 
> Why does he wear that neck brace?


Don't know. It was never explained in _Tales from the Dark Multiverse - Batman: Hush_.
I could imagine that this version of Jason was injured in an explosion too.

----------


## Zaresh

> Immediately I saw the parallel
> Zag = Jason
> Hades = Bruce
> Meg = Artemis
> Than = ...Diiiick? (immediate thought because he's dad's best boi)
> 
> It helps that the art looks similar to Dexter Soy's


Dick fits it well, but so does Tim, just differently, I guess. Roy is way different than Than to be him. I get the point about romance, buuuuut...
Nah, screw that, Tim is Dusa. Hypnos is Roy though (I mean as a joke, justin case).
No, wait. Aquilles is Roy. Dick works too, but I feel he's too relaxed to fit Dick. Roy resembles the character better.
Hypnos is... Hmmmm...

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

A new batch of supposed leaks was posted on 4chan, surprisingly, Jason was mentioned in some

-Phil Noto will making the covers for the series.
-Editorial will give him the white streak so people differentiate all the robins when they're on-panel. 

Roy was also mentioned in which all the people killed in HiC would be revived at the end of Death Metal and that Lian will be canon again. The wildest claim made is that Tynion and Mark Rusell will helm a storyline late in 2019 in which *spoilers:*
Kon and Tim will come out as bi and will start dating
*end of spoilers*

As always, take these with a truckload of salt.

----------


## RedBird

Hmm, honestly it all sounds too good to be true. So yeah, a truckload of salt indeed, though I do want to be hopeful for all these points.

----------


## Sergard

> A new batch of supposed leaks was posted on 4chan, surprisingly, Jason was mentioned in some
> 
> -Phil Noto will making the covers for the series.
> *-Editorial will give him the white streak so people differentiate all the robins when they're on-panel.* 
> 
> Roy was also mentioned in which all the people killed in HiC would be revived at the end of Death Metal and that Lian will be canon again. The wildest claim made is that Tynion and Mark Rusell will helm a storyline late in 2019 in which *spoilers:*
> Kon and Tim will come out as bi and will start dating
> *end of spoilers*
> 
> As always, take these with a truckload of salt.


Personally, I like the white streak - as long as the existence makes sense.

But giving Jason the white streak to differentiate the Robins is dumb because

a) Jason is the big one with the red helmet and leather jacket. He's already the one who looks different. Dick, Tim and Damian are the problem - sometimes even Bruce.
b) I hate the thought that DC is - again - changing something about Jason, so that the other Robins can profit from it.
c) I don't want Jason to be on-panel with the other Robins.

----------


## RedBird

> -Phil Noto will making the covers for the series.


I love Noto's artwork, though I'm sceptical about this point since I can't even recall the last time they had been consistently working with DC, however I just want to ask, does this point mention whether it's simply _A_ series featuring Jason, or a Red Hood series?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I love Noto's artwork, though I'm sceptical about this point since I can't even recall the last time they had been consistently working with DC, however I just want to ask, does this point mention whether it's simply _A_ series featuring Jason, or a Red Hood series?


The exact wording was 

The new Red Hood book covers will be made by Phil Noto

----------


## RedBird

> The exact wording was 
> 
> The new Red Hood book covers will be made by Phil Noto


Oh, well that'll certainly be neat if it's true. Not just that Noto will be on the covers but the idea that a Red Hood book may just make it into 2021 and beyond. Here's hoping.

----------


## Zaresh

> A new batch of supposed leaks was posted on 4chan, surprisingly, Jason was mentioned in some
> 
> *-Phil Noto will making the covers for the series.*
> -Editorial will give him the white streak so people differentiate all the robins when they're on-panel. 
> 
> Roy was also mentioned in which all the people killed in HiC would be revived at the end of Death Metal and that Lian will be canon again. The wildest claim made is that Tynion and Mark Rusell will helm a storyline late in 2019 in which *spoilers:*
> Kon and Tim will come out as bi and will start dating
> *end of spoilers*
> 
> As always, take these with a truckload of salt.


This picks my interest. Oh, ho hoho. Those covers are going to be my new desktops.

I can't say that I believe the second bit, but, well, can't say I'll be surprised if they do. Edit: much as Serg, I too hope it's justified. It's not hard to justify the streak to be honest.

I think that I like Rusell's work. I feel meh about Tynion, but I trust Rusell.
Can't say it surprises me the bit inside the spoil tags either. Well, not for the bat character at least. I would've gone with that years ago, honestly. The other half is a bit eh, I dunno, maybe? But whatever. I'm fine with it all. But then I'm not a fan so...

Edit: huh, I hope the bit about RH having his own book next year is true too.
Edit again: also, wow, Phil Noto is a high profile. Sure, it's not inner work, but still. Maaan, my wallpapers are becoming redder and redder.
Edit again and again: I saw the leaks now. Humm, a Titans book by Humphries can be a nice read too. Actually, all the leaks sound appealing to me. Even Aquaman.

----------


## Shadowcat

> The exact wording was 
> 
> The new Red Hood book covers will be made by Phil Noto


Oh. My. God. I can’t wait.

----------


## Zaresh

Let's not get our hopes too high. Those leaks could be fake, as good ad they sound now.
I guess we will know something else if BC posts their stuff in the next days.

----------


## Jackalope89

> A new batch of supposed leaks was posted on 4chan, surprisingly, Jason was mentioned in some
> 
> -Phil Noto will making the covers for the series.
> -Editorial will give him the white streak so people differentiate all the robins when they're on-panel. 
> 
> Roy was also mentioned in which all the people killed in HiC would be revived at the end of Death Metal and that Lian will be canon again. The wildest claim made is that Tynion and Mark Rusell will helm a storyline late in 2019 in which *spoilers:*
> Kon and Tim will come out as bi and will start dating
> *end of spoilers*
> 
> As always, take these with a truckload of salt.


It being 4Chan is enough to bring in 3 truckloads of salt.

Phil Noto I know nothing about. So, whatever.
White streak, I could take it or leave it. 
Roy being back, with Lian being alive, would be awesome. Killing her off (along with a number if other child characters) marked a time that makes me question the people at DC.

For the spoiler- Meh. *spoilers:*
Tim, while I don't hate him, I just don't find interesting and thus, whatever. Conner, only version I know, and care about for that matter, is the Young Justice animated series one. So, once again, whatever.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## RedBird

> I can't say that I believe the second bit, but, well, can't say I'll be surprised if they do. Edit: much as Serg, I too hope it's justified. It's not hard to justify the streak to be honest.


If it ever came to pass, it'll either be from his resurrection in the coffin, as a mark of death, that even the pit can't remove or whatever, or more likely just be from the pit itself, right? 
Though I suppose making it become some kind of mark of the All Caste might also work. Unlike the Lazarus explanation, but similar to the unexplained resurrection explanation, it would help to make the reason more distinct to Jason. The most well known and powerful All-Caste members tend to have completely white hair, like Ducra and Essence, it wouldn't be an out of this world retcon for that to be a mark of power or immortality within the All-Caste. It could be used as a signifier of his place as a powerful All-Caste member, but also as still a mortal human within their ranks, hence the only partial streak of white hair? I dunno. 




> Edit again: also, wow, Phil Noto is a high profile.


All the more reason to feel sceptical XD




> Edit again and again: I saw the leaks now. Humm, a Titans book by Humphries can be a nice read too. Actually, all the leaks sound appealing to me. Even Aquaman.


Hmm, Humphries on a Titans book does sound good. His Dial H for hero run had been fun, and despite the fact that Humphries seemed to earn mixed reactions (at least in this forum) for his Nightwing run at the time, I personally enjoyed it and had wanted to see more.

----------


## Zaresh

> If it ever came to pass, it'll either be from his resurrection in the coffin, as a mark of death, that even the pit can't remove or whatever, or more likely just be from the pit itself, right? 
> *Though I suppose making it become some kind of mark of the All Caste might also work.* Unlike the Lazarus explanation, but similar to the unexplained resurrection explanation, it would help to make the reason more distinct to Jason. The most well known and powerful All-Caste members tend to have completely white hair, like Ducra and Essence, it wouldn't be an out of this world retcon for that to be a mark of power or immortality within the All-Caste. It could be used as a signifier of his place as a powerful All-Caste member, but also as still a mortal human within their ranks, hence the only partial streak of white hair? I dunno.


That could work nicely. I like it. Please DC, if it happens, let it be that. Or, I don't know, even some weird genetics. Ma Gunn's granddaughter had silver hair. My father had coal black hair, but then he had some funny red haired streaks that turned blond once his hair started to grow grey (that happened when he was around his 27-30). I mean, I don't think they will remember that bit about the Gunns, but I'm hopeful about they using the All-Caste stuff.

----------


## Shadowcat

Any links to the leaks?

----------


## Staystrong

'By the way, I think that's the same safe house that Tomasi/Gleason made for him in Batman and Robin where he said hello to his pillow before being attacked by Damian. The same ceiling to floor windows, circular wall, and his weapon collection is on the frame in the wall that divides the living room and bedroom, with storage underneath.

That red sword on the frame is the one Damian used to attack him.

The layout and content's a bit different, or this is the other side where the living room is, while behind the wall is his bed.'

By the way, it seems like thr truth.

----------


## Sergard

> If it ever came to pass, it'll either be from his resurrection in the coffin, as a mark of death, that even the pit can't remove or whatever, or more likely just be from the pit itself, right? 
> Though I suppose making *it become some kind of mark of the All Caste might also work*. Unlike the Lazarus explanation, but similar to the unexplained resurrection explanation, it would help to make the reason more distinct to Jason. *The most well known and powerful All-Caste members tend to have completely white hair, like Ducra and Essence, it wouldn't be an out of this world retcon for that to be a mark of power or immortality within the All-Caste. It could be used as a signifier of his place as a powerful All-Caste member, but also as still a mortal human within their ranks, hence the only partial streak of white hair*? I dunno. 
> 
> [...]


I like that. It doesn't even have to be a retcon but something Jason earns in a new story arc that's centered around the All-Caste.
The white streak would go nicely with the tattoo - and it's based on a story that was explicitly created for and completely belongs to Jason and nobody else.
Writers could even make the white streak concealable - like the tattoo.

The more I think about it the more I like it  - so we'll 100% never get it because it's DC.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> 'By the way, I think that's the same safe house that Tomasi/Gleason made for him in Batman and Robin where he said hello to his pillow before being attacked by Damian. The same ceiling to floor windows, circular wall, and his weapon collection is on the frame in the wall that divides the living room and bedroom, with storage underneath.
> 
> That red sword on the frame is the one Damian used to attack him.
> 
> The layout and content's a bit different, or this is the other side where the living room is, while behind the wall is his bed.'
> 
> By the way, it seems like thr truth.


Huh, what area you talking about?

----------


## Sergard

> Huh, what area you talking about?


I have found the original post on page 17.




> By the way, I think that's the same safe house that Tomasi/Gleason made for him in Batman and Robin where he said hello to his pillow before being attacked by Damian. The same ceiling to floor windows, circular wall, and his weapon collection is on the frame in the wall that divides the living room and bedroom, with storage underneath.
> 
> That red sword on the frame is the one Damian used to attack him. 
> 
> The layout and content's a bit different, or this is the other side where the living room is, while behind the wall is his bed.



And I have found the "leaks" on 4chan too.

These are all of them, right?

*spoilers:*
>Mark Russell on Young Justice ongoing, smaller cast centered around the core four
>Titans book by Humphries
>2 Flashes book one with Barry and the other with Wally, the Wally book will start with a Year One arc after a couple of issues like Rucka did with WW
>Waid in charge of Supes and Action comic
>Priest in charge of Aquaman
>Saladin Ahmed in charge of Green Arrow
>The new Red Hood book covers will be made by Phil Noto
>JSA ongoing by Geoff
>Alan Scott 6 issues mini by Orlando
>Superman Black Label book by King

Now about the characters:
>All the people who died in HiC is brought back to life
>Roy's daughter Lian is back (she was resurrected in the events of Convergence)
>Diana was part of the original JSA
>Jon is gonna be de-aged and all his memories of the 7 years+his time in the Legion will disappear but he will still have a ring
>Kyle will become relevant again, the first event will be about him
>Kon and Tim will start dating by late 2021 they will both come out as Bi, Tynion and Russell are in charge of the whole storyline
>The whole DC editorial is surprised that WB and AT&T gave the good to go by the way, Geoff was the one who pushed for it. Bendis is kinda mad because he wanted to make Naomi and Kon a couple back in 2019 with the whole Wonder Comics and nobody wanted it
>Damian will become Robin again, Tim is gonna go back to be Red Robin
>Marcus To is in charge of Tim new design he has the same hair than his Red Robin run, Jason will also have the white stripe again. This is because they don't want people to play who is who anymore when the Robins share a panel

*end of spoilers*

Some of them sound really stupid, some of them sound like wishful thinking/what fans want to hear - so I declare the whole thing fake.

----------


## Zaresh

> I have found the original post on page 17.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I have found the "leaks" on 4chan too.
> 
> These are all of them, right?
> 
> ...


I dunno. 
*spoilers:*
Kyle being relevant could mean he gets back to his white lantern status, which could tie with all those HiC victims being alive again, plus Lian and probably someone else.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Jackalope89

Lian, the ones who died in HiC (what could have been interesting turned into a stupid "kill everyone" event), Jon being a kid again, Damian as Robin, and the simple fact that Bendis is mad about something are the only things I like about that.

But it does read like a fanfic setup. I've seen a few with those elements (forgot the names though). While I would like the things I listed, DC has proven far too many times that they like to do things their own way (often to fans' ire). If I'm proven wrong, well, we'll see.

----------


## Shadowcat

I wonder if Bendis is getting the Batman books after? Maybe having Tynion and Jimenez taking over Nightwing, Tomasi on Red Hood? I’d rather him not, but with him doing a big crossover next year, I’m assuming DC will put him in charge of one of the marquee franchises.

----------


## CPSparkles

> I wonder if Bendis is getting the Batman books after? Maybe having Tynion and Jimenez taking over Nightwing, Tomasi on Red Hood? I’d rather him not, but with him doing a big crossover next year, I’m assuming DC will put him in charge of one of the marquee franchises.


Tynion on Nghtwing and Tomasi on Red Hood.; Those are some very bad picks. lets hope that doesn't become reality.

Never a good idea putting a writer on titles featuring characters they dislike/have no care for.

Bendis on Batman sounds good since his batman Universe is very good. Much better than Tynion's current Batman run which is so boring and does nothing but copy what was done before and pander to nostalgia.

Bendis could bring his Daredevil game to Batman.
Bendis however doesn't have the sales and his recent works don't have the critical acclaim to be on batman but then again neither did Tynion so...
Priest would be my choice for batman or Taylor

----------


## CPSparkles

> Lian, the ones who died in HiC (what could have been interesting turned into a stupid "kill everyone" event), Jon being a kid again, Damian as Robin, and the simple fact that Bendis is mad about something are the only things I like about that.
> 
> But it does read like a fanfic setup. I've seen a few with those elements (forgot the names though). While I would like the things I listed, DC has proven far too many times that they like to do things their own way (often to fans' ire). If I'm proven wrong, well, we'll see.


Tiny Tim Robin is something that fanfics and tumblr have been clamouring for as well as TimxConner.

Tim recently was drawn to look like a toddler in the recent Batbook. A book that is currently written by a guy who up till recently ran 2 Tim Drake fan blogs.

I wouldn't put it past Tynion with his level of fanboyism to make those dreams reality. he already made the 'Tim is Baby' dodgy tumblr fetish reality.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> Tynion on Nghtwing and Tomasi on Red Hood.; Those are some very bad picks. lets hope that doesn't become reality.
> 
> Never a good idea putting a writer on titles featuring characters they dislike/have no care for.
> 
> Bendis on Batman sounds good since his batman Universe is very good. Much better than Tynion's current Batman run which is so boring and does nothing but copy what was done before and pander to nostalgia.
> 
> Bendis could bring his Daredevil game to Batman.
> Bendis however doesn't have the sales and his recent works don't have the critical acclaim to be on batman but then again neither did Tynion so...
> Priest would be my choice for batman or Taylor


Priest would actually address Bruce's poor parenting without brushing it aside or making it melodrama

----------


## CPSparkles

> Priest would actually address Bruce's poor parenting without brushing it aside or making it melodrama


Yep. Priest doesn't come across as so much of a Batman fanboy that he glosses over everything.

he is also a writer that likes to expose the flaws in his characters and he is unapologetic.
His batman I feel could be flawed, human, hard and compelling. 

No OTT Bat wank a la Snyder, no incompetent hero a la King and no rehashed concepts  a la Tynion

----------


## Jackalope89

> Tiny Tim Robin is something that fanfics and tumblr have been clamouring for as well as TimxConner.
> 
> Tim recently was drawn to look like a toddler in the recent Batbook. A book that is currently written by a guy who up till recently ran 2 Tim Drake fan blogs.
> 
> I wouldn't put it past Tynion with his level of fanboyism to make those dreams reality. he already made the 'Tim is Baby' dodgy tumblr fetish reality.


Yeah, I just don't really care about Tim. Not to say I hate him, or want his character killed or anything. And I've tried to get into his character, but the closest was BTAS, which was basically Jason's character but Tim's name.

The only things I dread going forward about that, are the shipping wars. While there's a small contingent of "TimxCon" people, there's quite a few TimxSteph and ConxCassandra Sandsmark. And you know that will spill over into other things.

----------


## Aahz

> Priest would actually address Bruce's poor parenting without brushing it aside or making it melodrama


After "Batman vs. Deathstroke" I have no desire to see him as batman writer.

And his non-linear storytelling is anyway super annoying.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Yeah, I just don't really care about Tim. Not to say I hate him, or want his character killed or anything. And I've tried to get into his character, but the closest was BTAS, which was basically Jason's character but Tim's name.
> 
> The only things I dread going forward about that, are the shipping wars. While there's a small contingent of "TimxCon" people, there's quite a few TimxSteph and ConxCassandra Sandsmark. And you know that will spill over into other things.


I was under the impression that the TimXConner ship was quite popular [maybe they are just vocal]

Lately the rumblings for gay TimKon seems to have gotten louder.
I think a few Dc writers are now savy enough to try to pander to the tumblr HC. We saw it with Taylor via JayxRose.
Those are two things that are popular with tumblr fans.
Tom king's batman success was down to stringing shippers by dangling a canon wedding esp kept up by teasing them online.

I agree that DC never seems to listen to fans but I think a few writers are starting to understand that there's a lot of money and goodwill to be had by incorporating some popular fan Hc's/wishlist.

tynion even went as far as giving Steph and Cass the bat symbol back making them batgirls but not.
he also brought back Oracle. That is pandering [very low effort pandering since it's just a coat of paint without changing anything]

I wouldn't put it past him to make Tim and Conner bi. I just hope they take it seriously

----------


## RedBird

> I wonder if Bendis is getting the Batman books after? Maybe having Tynion and Jimenez taking over Nightwing, Tomasi on Red Hood? I’d rather him not, but with him doing a big crossover next year, I’m assuming DC will put him in charge of one of the marquee franchises.


Tomasi for Red Hood? Yikes, I definitely wouldn't want that, no way. Let's not even dare speak that into existence.

----------


## Sergard

I want Alex de Campi or Matthew Rosenberg as a writer for Red Hood. And Dexter Soy or Nick Robles as artist.

Big no to Tomasi.


Red Hood #52 variant cover by SKAN

----------


## Zaresh

> I want Alex de Campi or Matthew Rosenberg as a writer for Red Hood. And Dexter Soy or Nick Robles as artist.
> 
> Big no to Tomasi.


Rosenberg in an Outlaws book, with Roy and any girl he likes as the third one? Yes, please. As we comented, he's a fan and his writing is just, definitaely, right up my alley. But doesn't look like the case.

Zdarsky in Nightwing could be a great pick too, for those who like the character, imho. And my feed in twitter would be even funnier, probably.

----------


## RedBird

> I want Alex de Campi or Matthew Rosenberg as a writer for Red Hood. And Dexter Soy or Nick Robles as artist.


Yup  :Big Grin: 

Also that variant looks sweet, and it gives me a little hope that we might return to this Red Hood outfit one day. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

----------


## Shadowcat

I had no idea Tomasi didn’t like Jason. That’s too bad. I really enjoy his Tec, and his Nightwing RIP was really good (I know Jason was in neither of these runs).

----------


## Shadowcat

Rosenberg or Zsdarsky on this book would be great.

----------


## Arsenal

I would love a Zdarsky Red Hood run

----------


## batnbreakfast

Please spoil me: In Batman #648 Jason gets stabbed by Black Mask as a cliffhanger. What happens next? I own the Under the Red Hood trade but my collection is... unorganized. Why does Jason survive this one?

----------


## Aahz

> Please spoil me: In Batman #648 Jason gets stabbed by Black Mask as a cliffhanger. What happens next? I own the Under the Red Hood trade but my collection is... unorganized. Why does Jason survive this one?


It wasn't Jason, just one of his goons in a costume and Jason speaking via Radio.

Btw. I still think they should have had Jason kill Black Mask (as Revenge for him killing Steph) and not having Catwoman it do a few month later.

----------


## cc008

> Rosenberg or Zsdarsky on this book would be great.





> I would love a Zdarsky Red Hood run


Mentioned in the Hawkeye thread on the Marvel board that I'd read anything either of the two wrote. If it were Red Hood, that would be incredble.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I want Alex de Campi or Matthew Rosenberg as a writer for Red Hood. And Dexter Soy or Nick Robles as artist.
> 
> Big no to Tomasi.
> 
> 
> Red Hood #52 variant cover by SKAN


I hope this means the end of the MK costume.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I hope this means the end of the MK costume.


Don't worry, his next look will be like Raiden's.

----------


## KrustyKid

> Don't worry, his next look will be like Raiden's.


Hahahaha, now that would be something

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

interestingly, it looks like it was initially drawn with Woods' design, and then they simply redraw the torso and head to include the helmet and the jacket.

----------


## Zaresh

> Hahahaha, now that would be something


Oh, please. No.
No.
No.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

https://twitter.com/Symeona1/status/1329180143995265027



https://twitter.com/emmshin/status/1313334815886721026

----------


## KrustyKid

> Oh, please. No.
> No.
> No.


The fan reaction would be epic, lol

----------


## Zaresh

A few days (2-3?) have passed and BC (or any other news site) has said nothing. I guess we can announce those leaks as mostly busted.

----------


## Shadowcat

Not too sure on Jason’s history, post Nu52/Rebirth, but does his time with the Titans still a part of his history, or no?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

https://www.gamesradar.com/jason-tod...-red-hood-arc/

Interview with Martinbrough about the Hill two parter. 

I don't like much his pitch about exploring Jason's personal demons and how is a novel approach for the character since that was the underlying theme of Lobdell's entire run.

----------


## Zaresh

> Not too sure on Jasons history, post Nu52/Rebirth, but does his time with the Titans still a part of his history, or no?


In a way. I'm not sure, but I think he at least got to meet them once?

----------


## Jackalope89

> https://www.gamesradar.com/jason-tod...-red-hood-arc/
> 
> Interview with Martinbrough about the Hill two parter. 
> 
> I don't like much his pitch about exploring Jason's personal demons and how is a novel approach for the character since that was the underlying theme of Lobdell's entire run.


Yeah. Apparently it was editorial that greenlit it.




> The universal reaction I've received from within DC editorial has been very positive with regard to our showing a different, human side of Jason Todd.


It really makes you wonder, after reading just before that they explained the previous 50 issues, what _exactly_ they told him.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Yeah, or that bit about the new characters being created as stand-ins for Jason and Bruce's relationship. Like, is really needed to go through that angle _again_?

----------


## Zaresh

It could be worse. At least, it's not a choice for themes that I dislike.
I haven't read the interview, but I've learnt to just not take seriously whatever most of creators say in interviews that are promotional pieces for new works by new creative teams. Sometimes they just try to sell the hype for absolutely nothing new. And besides, it could be writing about different kind of ghosts and demons. Not that Jason has few in his past.

----------


## Jackalope89

> It could be worse. At least, it's not a choice for themes that I dislike.
> I haven't read the interview, but I've learnt to just not take seriously whatever most of creators say in interviews that are promotional pieces for new works by new creative teams. Sometimes they just try to sell the hype for absolutely nothing new. And besides, it could be writing about different kind of ghosts and demons. Not that Jason has few in his past.


If it was about, say, Bruce tricking Jason into reliving the day he died, or beating the crap out of him for shooting Penguin (whom was more than alive afterwards), then I could see revisiting that kind of thing. Otherwise, I don't know if its really all that warranted.

----------


## Zaresh

> If it was about, say, Bruce tricking Jason into reliving the day he died, or beating the crap out of him for shooting Penguin (whom was more than alive afterwards), then I could see revisiting that kind of thing. Otherwise, I don't know if its really all that warranted.


I'm guessing that the demons are from his days pre-Robin, or his time as the Red Hood underworld lord. I mean, the story is supposedly about an old friend of him in the Hill, right?

----------


## Jackalope89

> I'm guessing that the demons are from his days pre-Robin, or his time as the Red Hood underworld lord. I mean, the story is supposedly about an old friend of him in the Hill, right?


Something like that. I'll check out the first one, see if its worth it for the second.

----------


## Arsenal

Read it and Enjoyed it. Willing to give the second issue a shot to see if they can stick the landing.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Yeah, or that bit about the new characters being created as stand-ins for Jason and Bruce's relationship. Like, is really needed to go through that angle _again_?


That is literally my response to Dick's story arc throughout New 52 to Rebirth, so get used to it, he's an old enough character to get a repeating storyline ^^ 
Babs is not getting out of Killing Joke
Dick is not getting out of Getting Out From The Shadow of Batman
Damian is not getting out of Demon Brat
I don't know what Tim is not getting out of... oh yeah. Robin XD




> Not too sure on Jason’s history, post Nu52/Rebirth, but does his time with the Titans still a part of his history, or no?


I don't think they even sure who's been on Titans and when. There's the classic guys, the Fab Five Founder and the NTT but every authors keep mixing them up and when they joined the team.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Detective #1031 out today along RH #51 has Jason working with Bruce to deal with the aftermath of Joker War, so Martinbrough idea of there being a rift (again) between them makes no sense.

----------


## Arsenal

I'm not sure anybody would think there was supposed to be a rift between Bruce and Jason without the interview.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I'm not sure anybody would think there was supposed to be a rift between Bruce and Jason without the interview.


The panel with Jason's hesitation to call Bruce and his reticence to talk about Bruce when asked by Dana. There's no need to have it be stated out loud with huge golden letters to notice it.

----------


## Arsenal

> The panel with Jason's hesitation to call Bruce and his reticence to talk about Bruce when asked by Dana. There's no need to have it be stated out loud with huge golden letters to notice it.


Eh I felt it was ambiguous enough in both instances that somebody could interpret them differently and wouldn't necessarily be wrong. It's not like we got any dialogue (internal or otherwise) that suggests or outright states that there's problems between them again. 

Speaking of which, it was kind of weird to read the book without the internal narrations.

----------


## RedBird

> Detective #1031 out today along RH #51 has Jason working with Bruce to deal with the aftermath of Joker War, so Martinbrough idea of there being a rift (again) between them makes no sense.


Jason being in Gotham after Joker war and having 0 conflict with Bruce is what makes no sense.

Jason having tension or a rift between him and Bruce now that he's (thanks to editorial mandate) stuck in Gotham is pretty on point considering the Joker War has ended and Jason and Bruce have had only unpleasant one on one interactions as of late.

Plus, why should TEC, a comic that is not about Jason, not for Jason and is only using Jasons character (and every other Batfamily member not named Damian) as a stooge in it's story, why should that book necessarily eclipse the story that's occurring in Red Hood? Why now of all times, should an outsider book not intended to give Jason's character or conflict any consideration be given _more_ merit than his very own book? That is just putting the cart before the horse.

----------


## Shadowcat

Is there a weapon, besides a gun, you’d like to see Jason use? It seems all the Robins have their own preference for a certain type of weapon, but Red Hood’s guns seem to be the least Bruce approved weapon.

----------


## Aahz

> Is there a weapon, besides a gun, you’d like to see Jason use? It seems all the Robins have their own preference for a certain type of weapon, but Red Hood’s guns seem to be the least Bruce approved weapon.


In the movie and the comics pre countdown he used a dagger/knife (and he used iirc more often than the guns back then) I would like to see that more often.

Him using the All Blades more often (and especially outside of his book and in other media) would also be cool.

And him just beating up people with furniture or other stuff that is lying around is also allways fun.

----------


## RedBird

> In the movie and the comics pre countdown he used a dagger/knife (and he used iirc more often than the guns back then) I would like to see that more often.
> 
> Him using the All Blades more often (and especially outside of his book and in other media) would also be cool.
> 
> And him just beating up people with furniture or other stuff that is lying around is also allways fun.


Yes to all of this.  :Big Grin: 

Jason being proficient with his dual pistols, knifes and swords is great, as are times when he has to be resourceful and use various nearby objects as weapons. The ingenuity in fight scenes is always fun to see.

Along with all these, I would also like to see more discreet defence weapons utilised. Like for instance some of the tools he had from early Rebirth, like the electric charge in his bat symbol, or the knife that can be extended out from his shoe, or even things like small explosives as seen in UTRH or the Injustice 2 (game).

----------


## Restingvoice

> In the movie and the comics pre countdown he used a dagger/knife (and he used iirc more often than the guns back then) I would like to see that more often.
> 
> Him using the All Blades more often (and especially outside of his book and in other media) would also be cool.
> 
> And him just beating up people with furniture or other stuff that is lying around is also allways fun.


I like his UTRH dagger, but I guess it's too evil looking for his image now

----------


## Shadowcat

I’d like to see Jason join the Outsiders. That group is just tailored to his strong suits.

Currently reading The Who is Artemis arc, and am loving it. I’ve loved Artemis since her introduction, and it’s so nice to read her in a regular monthly title.

----------


## cc008

Red Hood and the.... Out...SIDERS. 

It does have a nice ring to it.

----------


## km_sus

7TUeAGA.jpg

Shoutout to the Kris Dagger! The best weapon he doesn't use anymore

----------


## Jackalope89

> 7TUeAGA.jpg
> 
> Shoutout to the Kris Dagger! The best weapon he doesn't use anymore


The animated film gave him a more practically designed dagger/knife. A the wavy blade of the comic just isn't practically designed outside of something you would show off on a stand or something.

----------


## Sergard

Maybe a little off-topic, but I've been playing Hades for the last two weeks - and now I definitely want crossover fanarts with Jason and Zagreus.
(Although ALL the characters in the game and their interactions with each other - not just with the protagonist - are _so_ good.)

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Ah right, turns out that Jason's story in Future State happens before Bruce goes MIA in Dark Detective.

----------


## Zaresh

> Maybe a little off-topic, but I've been playing Hades for the last two weeks - and now I definitely want crossover fanarts with Jason and Zagreus.
> (Although ALL the characters in the game and their interactions with each other - not just with the protagonist - are _so_ good.)


I'm that girl that says "I told you so".
Yes, I am.
I told you so.

Yeeep, the game's writing is pure gold. And it only gets better and better the more you progress in the game.

-------
I think I can say that I feel absolutely uninterested, no; the opposite of interested, the absolute opposite, about Future State's Jason's part. The more I know, the less I like.

----------


## AJpyro

Read Red Hood 51. Its a decent start. Jason takes a bit of backseat for the villains and the ploy but its not bad.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Finally, Jason has the spotlight

https://twitter.com/GothamKnights/st...01245118648321

----------


## Zaresh

> Finally, Jason has the spotlight
> 
> https://twitter.com/GothamKnights/st...01245118648321


Saw it. Besides the expected Gun Fu, I'm also hopeful that we will get our cool all-blades  :Big Grin: . He's the cool guy, he needs his cool swords, come on, WB!

Also, despite the third or fourth reset of the roles poll in Discord, Jason's still leading the votes.

----------


## RedBird

> I think I can say that I feel absolutely uninterested, no; the opposite of interested, the absolute opposite, about Future State's Jason's part. The more I know, the less I like.


Yeah, the synopsis for Jason is still not really peaking my interest, I'm hoping the teases and previews might change my mind, but, eh. At this point, I'm actually more intrigued by Rose and her inclusion in the Red Hood Future State story. I like Rose, and since the Deathstroke series ended, I haven't seen her pop up anywhere else, or at least not in a book closer to current continuity.





> Finally, Jason has the spotlight


Nice, we'll finally get to see the concept art for Red Hoods costume, so far the details in the designs have been really interesting to see up close, like the spikes in Batgirls gauntlets, or the separate vest over Nightwings outfit.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

Future State continues to confuse me, nice Akira bike though

----------


## RedBird

It'll be a big missed opportunity if there's not at least one panel featuring the Akira bike slide.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## RedBird

Pure speculation here, but, I saw this post from Gleb Melnikov teasing future projects. And I want to note the second image there, the one with Ras.

There was also another post after this of Talia with a comment about it and that image with Ras not being for future state and instead part of a new big thing.

What do you guys think? Does that reddish figure to the side of that second image look more like Red Hood, Deathstroke, Grifter or any other character?

----------


## Zaresh

> Pure speculation here, but, I saw this post from Gleb Melnikov teasing future projects. And I want to note the second image there, the one with Ras.
> 
> There was also another post after this of Talia with a comment about it and that image with Ras not being for future state and instead part of a new big thing.
> 
> What do you guys think? Does that reddish figure to the side of that second image look more like Red Hood, Deathstroke, Grifter or any other character?


Not Deathstroke.
Could be Grifter with a different design, I guess. Looks like a helmet, not a... hmm... cloth mask? Whatever that should be. But it also doesn't look like the collar of the last brown jacket he has worn. On the other hand, I guess that girl is Harley?

I don't know. Could be something completely different.

----------


## Sergard

> I'm that girl that says "I told you so".
> Yes, I am.
> I told you so.
> 
> Yeeep, the game's writing is pure gold. And it only gets better and better the more you progress in the game.
> 
> -------
> I think I can say that *I feel absolutely uninterested, no; the opposite of interested, the absolute opposite*, about Future State's Jason's part. The more I know, the less I like.


Well, that's my current mood about DC in general, not just Future State. 







> Pure speculation here, but, I saw this post from Gleb Melnikov teasing future projects. And I want to note the second image there, the one with Ras.
> 
> There was also another post after this of Talia with a comment about it and that image with Ras not being for future state and instead part of a new big thing.
> 
> What do you guys think? Does that reddish figure to the side of that second image look more like Red Hood, Deathstroke, Grifter or any other character?


Maybe it's a story about Talia Al Ghul. 

Could this be the classic Red Hood design?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Since I guess some of you will be interested, Artemis is in the variant cover of WW#770, out in march

https://www.gamesradar.com/dc-names-...creative-team/

Strangely, she's with the look she had when stranded on the Dark Multiverse.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Unused RHATO #50 cover



https://www.facebook.com/nefar007/ph...3973848292895/

----------


## Sergard

Shawn Martinbrough

"_Character design for "Strike" by artist @tony8kins and I. #REDHOOD51 published by @DCComics. In stores now._"

----------


## Rac7d*

> Shawn Martinbrough
> 
> "_Character design for "Strike" by artist @tony8kins and I. #REDHOOD51 published by @DCComics. In stores now._"



sHE sportzmaster daughter

----------


## Sergard

Shawn Martinbrough

"_New addition to the DCU "Dana Harlowe" character design by artist @Tony8Akins. Red Hood 51 published by @DCComics. In stores now._"

----------


## Sergard

Shawn Martinbrough

_"New addition to the DCU. "Tommy MAXX" character design by artist @Tony8Akins and I. Red Hood 51 published by @DCComics.  In stores now."_

----------


## Badou

> Future State continues to confuse me, nice Akira bike though


*spoilers:*
In the The Last Stories of the DC Universe issue there is a panel of Rose flirting with Jason. She basically says "I'm winking at you under my eyepatch". So maybe they are going to do something romantic with the two in Future State based off of that. This panel of them on the bike makes a bit more sense now at least.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Aahz

> *spoilers:*
> In the The Last Stories of the DC Universe issue there is a panel of Rose flirting with Jason. She basically says "I'm winking at you under my eyepatch". So maybe they are going to do something romantic with the two in Future State based off of that. This panel of them on the bike makes a bit more sense now at least.
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
Rose actually shouldn't have an Eyepatch in current continuity, during Priest's run she had both Eyes.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Badou

> *spoilers:*
> Rose actually shouldn't have an Eyepatch in current continuity, during Priest's run she had both Eyes.
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
Yeah, and characters like Terra who were there were wearing their costumes from Priest's Deathstroke run still. So if that is still the current cannon then she should have both eyes, but who knows with DC and continuity anymore. It's a giant mess, haha. Babs was wearing her Burnside costume which she hasn't worn in a long time.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

And here it is, at last. 



https://twitter.com/GothamKnights/st...02319504777224

----------


## RedBird

Nice.  :Smile:  

The holsters doubling as armour is a neat idea, though I honestly hope we can upgrade the mask to an actual helmet in the game.

Also I've been waiting for an article to drop about it and confirm it, but have you guys heard the extra new details for Gotham Knights. One of them being that throughout the game Red Hood unlocks more abilities as he learns more about his resurrection.

EDIT: Found the interview.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Nice.  
> 
> The holsters doubling as armour is a neat idea, though I honestly hope we can upgrade the mask to an actual helmet in the game.
> 
> Also I've been waiting for an article to drop about it and confirm it, but have you guys heard the extra new details for Gotham Knights. *One of them being that throughout the game Red Hood unlocks more abilities as he learns more about his resurrection.*


That definitely sounds like they will taking the All Caste into consideration. 

And the costume is 100% based/inspired by Medri's design

----------


## Rac7d*

The Jason Rose romance
Seems to be keeping up

----------


## RedBird

Yeah, Williamson is one of the writers of that Death Metal issue, so that panel of Rose flirting with Jason could be foreshadowing their relationship in future state and perhaps even in the ongoing dc future. It's a romance that has appeared with a growing frequency across a few books now, and even with the Titans tv series. And yet it's still so severely underdeveloped. I've mentioned before that right off the bat, it's the kind of ship that makes sense on paper, and I'm not against it, but the lack of development and interactions leaves a lot to be desired, so unless dc is finally going to put in the time to develop Jason and Roses relationship together or at least have them speak to each other for more than just a handful of panels I can't say I'm all that intrigued about it. 

It's just, there, existing for the time being. I like both characters but if this relationship is going to be a thing, then I just want to see it grow first, have it be properly fleshed out and earned.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Did you guys forget already that Rose and Jason were confirmed to have been in a relationship since the N52?

----------


## RedBird

> Did you guys forget already that Rose and Jason were confirmed to have been in a relationship since the N52?


Not at all.

But even when it was introduced in New52 it was still a relationship we as readers didn't see unfold and are instead told about after the fact. Same problem. From the beginning this relationship has been a lot of just telling the audience these characters are (or in new52s case, 'were') a couple, rather than actually showing their relationship develop. I wonder if future writers will even remember their past relationship from new 52 and use it as a base, or if it was forgotten in rebirth.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I'm not arguing about that one being better handled or anything. I'm just pointing out this not a novel development nor the first time this relationship has been alluded to in the comics. Personally, I don't like because I have never cared about Rose.

----------


## Zaresh

> That definitely sounds like they will taking the All Caste into consideration. 
> 
> And the costume is 100% based/inspired by Medri's design


The all-caste and the all-blades are my guess too. They seem to draw a lot from the new52-early Rebirth era for inspiration and foundations for the characters in the game, besides the Arkham games, I mean.

----------


## Arsenal

I’m surprised the Jason/Rose thing has become as big as a thing as it has since they’ve had maybe a handful of interactions in the comics that I can think of.

----------


## RedBird

> I'm not arguing about that one being better handled or anything. I'm just pointing out this not a novel development nor the first time this relationship has been alluded to in the comics.


Oh yeah for sure, though it is honestly kind of both strange and impressive to see a ship that was born from nothing more than a throw away line, has now snowballed and become this pervasive and prominent without any proper canon interactions.




> I’m surprised the Jason/Rose thing has become as big as a thing as it has since they’ve had maybe a handful of interactions in the comics that I can think of.


Pretty much, as far as I recall this one panel from Death Metal is literally the only canon interaction they have had since the last few issues of new52 Rhato. Everything else has been either been outside media, or a comic else world.

----------


## Badou

> Did you guys forget already that Rose and Jason were confirmed to have been in a relationship since the N52?


That really felt like Lobdell just wanted to add a notch in Jason's bed post or something. Had the two characters ever interacted before that random encounter between the two of them? I think Rose was missing an eye during that encounter, but then in Priest's run she obviously had both eyes and was written a bit younger. So I think some were thinking their New 52 interaction wasn't in continuity anymore, but who knows now with how confusing things are, lol. Everything is apparently canon now.

----------


## RedBird

> That really felt like Lobdell just wanted to add a notch in Jason's bed post or something.


Not necessarily. 

I can't quite find a link for it right now, but if I recall correctly the introduction of Rose at the end of the new52 outlaws was initially due to plans to have Rose in the next iteration of Outlaws, supposing a past relationship would have explained some familiarity between the two without needing lengthy introductions as well as set up a base to expand on the relationship if that plan had gone through, but for whatever reason it didn't pan out, perhaps due to Roses inclusion in the DCYou Deathstroke series.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Yeah, at the time Lobdell's idea was to replace Kori and Roy with Rose and Crux but Daniels wanted to use Rose on his series so Lobdell had to scrap that idea and come up with Red hood Arsenal.

----------


## Badou

> Not necessarily. 
> 
> I can't quite find a link for it right now, but if I recall correctly the introduction of Rose at the end of the new52 outlaws was initially due to plans to have Rose in the next iteration of Outlaws, supposing a past relationship would have explained some familiarity between the two without needing lengthy introductions as well as set up a base to expand on the relationship if that plan had gone through, but for whatever reason it didn't pan out, perhaps due to Roses inclusion in the DCYou Deathstroke series.


From what I remember her introduction involved her straddling Jason and mentioning how it reminded her of old times or something, right? I just remember how it was introduced that it felt like Lobdell was trying to add a notch in Jason's bed post rather than introduce Rose in a cool way. Given that it was Lobdell, who is a bit of a perv, it kind of just came off that way I guess.

----------


## RedBird

> From what I remember her introduction involved her straddling Jason and mentioning how it reminded her of old times or something, right? I just remember how it was introduced that it felt like Lobdell was trying to add a notch in Jason's bed post rather than introduce Rose in a cool way. Given that it was Lobdell, who is a bit of a perv, it kind of just came off that way I guess.


Nah, yeah that was pretty much it, but I'm not arguing the quality of the initial interaction here, it was sexy playfighting/flirting, nothing substantial, however your comment was about it being intended as nothing more than a sexual conquest, when in actuality the intention was that it was to be expanded upon in another series. The series just never came to fruition, and thus unfortunately on page just became a random sexual encounter. Until perhaps now, I guess.

----------


## RedBird

> And the costume is 100% based/inspired by Medri's design





> The all-caste and the all-blades are my guess too. They seem to draw a lot from the new52-early Rebirth era for inspiration and foundations for the characters in the game, besides the Arkham games, I mean.


It does seem all the more likely, though perhaps since the League has been pretty much confirmed with the Demons Head logo appearing in the initial teasers for the game alongside the Court of Owls, logo or faction symbols, the writers may also attempt to condense Jasons story and increase the League as an even more predominant element in his journey and give him additional abilities via the Lazarus pit waters instead, or he may have mystical abilities due to reviving from the dead, or maybe he'll have the All Blades, but they will be an ancient League weapon instead and the All Caste will be scrapped to save time and again to keep the League more relevant in story.

----------


## Zaresh

> It does seem all the more likely, though perhaps since the League has been pretty much confirmed with the Demons Head logo appearing in the initial teasers for the game alongside the Court of Owls, logo or faction symbols, the writers may also attempt to condense Jasons story and increase the League as an even more predominant element in his journey and give him additional abilities via the Lazarus pit waters instead, or he may have mystical abilities due to reviving from the dead, or maybe he'll have the All Blades, but they will be an ancient League weapon instead and the All Caste will be scrapped to save time and again to keep the League more relevant in story.


Merging the League and the All-Caste for cool dual swords with/and/or some self-healing buff is more likely, yeah.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Im surprised the Jason/Rose thing has become as big as a thing as it has since theyve had maybe a handful of interactions in the comics that I can think of.


It works and wont ever effect any kind of bat storyline

----------


## Aahz

> I'm not arguing about that one being better handled or anything. I'm just pointing out this not a novel development nor the first time this relationship has been alluded to in the comics. Personally, I don't like because I have never cared about Rose.


I think it is mostly do to the TV show that it is so prominent now.

----------


## Sergard

I'm sensing a theme:

*Teen Titans #47* (2007) (I just want to point out that there were both Jason Todd and Eddie Bloomberg in this issue - and these two didn't even interact. Instead we have Dick, Tim and Jason kicking each other in the balls. DC quality content. *facepalm*)



*Red Hood and the Outlaws #39* (2015)



*Dark Nights: Death Metal: The Last Stories of the DC Universe* (2020)

----------


## RedBird

It is kind of funny to see that both of them are on the same wavelength. I'm pretty sure Jason has made that same joke of 'You can't tell but I'm (making X facial expression here) under this hood' at least twice before, in Rhato v1 annual 2, and Rhato v2 Rebirth issue.

----------


## cc008

> It is kind of funny to see that both of them are on the same wavelength. I'm pretty sure Jason has made that same joke of 'You can't tell but I'm (making X facial expression here) under this hood' at least twice before, in Rhato v1 annual 2, and Rhato v2 Rebirth issue.


Yeah, nice little call back. They're practically perfect for each other.

----------


## Zaresh

> Yeah, nice little call back. They're practically perfect for each other.


Eh... This is my personal opinion, but they are the perfect formula for a disaster, with Rose's issues to deal with and Jason's isues to deal with. I can only see an emotional mess coming from it. Also, Rose can be very pushing lines with the killing people stuff. More than Jason. By a long stretch. I'm pretty against them pairing as a ship long term, but it could make for great melodrama, that's something I can agree with.

----------


## Trt-R5

I know this isn't really on topic, but do you know if March solicitations will be released today or next week?
Really anxious to find out who is going to be the next creative team in red hood

----------


## cc008

> Eh... This is my personal opinion, but they are the perfect formula for a disaster, with Rose's issues to deal with and Jason's isues to deal with. I can only see an emotional mess coming from it. Also, Rose can be very pushing lines with the killing people stuff. More than Jason. By a long stretch. I'm pretty against them pairing as a ship long term, but it could make for great melodrama, that's something I can agree with.


Yeah I know.. I was a bit overzealous with that comment. I prefer to "ship" Jason with Artemis. And I'm not really "shipper" per se... relationships don't really matter to me unless they bring a character down.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I know this isn't really on topic, but do you know if March solicitations will be released today or next week?
> Really anxious to find out who is going to be the next creative team in red hood


They should come later today.

----------


## Trt-R5

> They should come later today.


Thanks! Any hopes or expectations in terms of plot or artístic team?

----------


## Sergard

> Thanks! Any hopes or expectations in terms of plot or artistic team?


Hopefully a team that completely ignores the rest of the DC universe - including the bat-"family" - together with 80 years of dumb superhero cliché garbage and creates an own little world around Jason. But my expectations are low.



Finalized Red Hood #52 cover

----------


## Arsenal

Nah, ignoring the wider DCU would be a mistake. Just use the good, ignore the rest and make the best out of any events the book gets dragged into.

----------


## Sergard

> Nah, ignoring the wider DCU would be a mistake. Just use the good, ignore the rest and make the best out of any events the book gets dragged into.


What good is even left to use?

----------


## Zaresh

So, Not Rosenberg. But this fellow I also love to read, who happens to talk a lot with Matthew with his twitter account? Chip Zdarsky, that guy. That crazy, funny man. He's writing a new anthology series, and the first arc of six numbers? It's an story with Jason and Bruce.

I'm freaking hyped.
Like, in the (seventh?) ninth heaven.
I trust him.

Still no news about the Outlaws, I think. But this is something to look forward to.

----------


## Sergard

> Picking up the 'Future State' anthology format (along with some of its serials and creators), the 64-page monthly Batman: Urban Legends anthology will be the third major Batman title, standing alongside Batman and Detective Comics.
> 
> Writer Chip Zdarsky and artist Eddy Barrows will lead the anthology, with a six-part Batman/Red Hood story that finds Jason Todd investigating a new lethal drug that is sweeping Gotham City.
> 
> "In the course of one night, this investigation will change his life forever  and put him in Batman's crosshairs," reads DC's announcement.[...]


(source)

----------


## Arsenal

I know it probably won't happen, but I'd absolutely love it if Zdarsky's Batman/Red Hood story followed up on their altercation in RHATO 25. 




> What good is even left to use?


Ignoring the wider DCU means we'd have never gotten the Dark Trinity, no outlaws, Outlaw Biz, Jason/Artemis, Jason-Roy friendship, the All Caste, Grandma Gun, etc.

I'm just saying we'd have missed out on a lot of cool stuff these last 10 years if Jason was cut off from the wider DCU and I'm sure we'd miss out on some more good stuff in the future if they do it now.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Dear God, when the hell are they dropping that costume!?

----------


## Konja7

> (source)


I wonder what this means for the Red Hood solo?

----------


## Frontier

> Dear God, when the hell are they dropping that costume!?


Yeah, I'm not sure what the impetus is for keeping that costume at this point.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I wonder what this means for the Red Hood solo?


Shouldn't mean anything because that is a Batman Anthology and Jason just happened to co-star the opening arc.

----------


## RedBird

> So, Not Rosenberg. But this fellow I also love to read, who happens to talk a lot with Matthew with his twitter account? Chip Zdarsky, that guy. That crazy, funny man. He's writing a new anthology series, and the fist arc of six numbers? It's an story with Jason and Bruce.
> 
> I'm freaking hyped.
> Like, in the (seventh?) ninth heaven.
> I trust him.
> 
> Still no news about the Outlaws, I think. But this is something to look forward.


I haven't read his Daredevil series, but I've heard a lot of good things about it. Definitely looking forward to this one.




> Dear God, when the hell are they dropping that costume!?


At this point, I'm actually truly sick of looking at it. It's become so frustrating to see it show up again and again.




> I wonder what this means for the Red Hood solo?


I suppose there are three options. The first being that it means absolutely nothing and that this anthology just happens to start with a Batman and Red Hood team up. The second being that this will help to establish some elements and launch a new Red Hood #1, possibly by the same writer, Zdarsky. And the third being that this means there is no Red Hood solo or team book and that the character will now, at best, be regulated to showing up in random stories like this, similar to most of the fringe Batman characters.

----------


## cc008

Zdarsky writing Red Hood, in my opinion, is just as wonderful news as Rosenberg writing him. I'm pumped about this news. DAREDEVIL has been off the charts good. This is going to be awesome.

----------


## Hannibal

Long time lurker/first post

I will read that mini series, but i sure hope that the Red Hood solo isn’t cancelled. He needs is own comic.

Hope we will have news soon.

----------


## Arsenal

Just noticed that Red Hood 52 dropped "Outlaw" from its title. 

Maybe issue 75 will drop the "Hood" next and it'll just be Red  :Stick Out Tongue:  going forward.

----------


## Sergard

> I know it probably won't happen, but I'd absolutely love it if Zdarsky's Batman/Red Hood story followed up on their altercation in RHATO 25. 
> 
> 
> Ignoring the wider DCU means we'd have never gotten the Dark Trinity, no outlaws, Outlaw Biz, Jason/Artemis, Jason-Roy friendship, the All Caste, Grandma Gun, etc.
> 
> I'm just saying we'd have missed out on a lot of cool stuff these last 10 years if Jason was cut off from the wider DCU and I'm sure we'd miss out on some more good stuff in the future if they do it now.


What's your definition of "wider DCU"?

The All Caste was specifically created for Jason.
Ma Gunn was specifically created for Jason in his post-crisis origin story.
I guess the Outlaws - the team name - was specifically created for Jason. 
This version of Bizarro was specifically created for the Outlaws.

Artemis - I give you that - is awesome.
Jason-Roy friendship is nice but I still wished Jason could have a better best friend. Don't get me wrong. I don't want to throw shade on Roy - but his character is in a bad position - and not because he's dead. But neither the Arrow franchise nor the Titans franchise seem to be particularly interested in his character. And I don't think DC is interested enough in giving Roy a solo. Green Arrow himself didn't have a solo for quite some time. Which is sad. The Arrow family is so big but feels so overlooked.

And can we at least make a wide berth around the Justice League, the Titans and most members of the batfamily? I'm too tired of them. I think I said it once already but I'm not agreeing with DC's definition of "hero".





> I haven't read his Daredevil series, but I've heard a lot of good things about it. Definitely looking forward to this one.
> 
> At this point, I'm actually truly sick of looking at it. It's become so frustrating to see it show up again and again.
> 
> I suppose there are three options. The first being that it means absolutely nothing and that this anthology just happens to start with a Batman and Red Hood team up. The second being that this will help to establish some elements and launch a new Red Hood #1, possibly by the same writer, Zdarsky. And the third being that this means there is no Red Hood solo or team book and that the character will now, at best, be regulated to showing up in random stories like this, similar to most of the fringe Batman characters.


I like the costume as a road trip costume when Jason has to travel light/hide his vigilante stuff. But it makes no sense for an investigation story in Gotham, where he has at least one safe-house and surely needs more armored clothing. Maybe the current costume is just on the cover but the costume has reached a point where it's starting to overstay it's welcome. I'm ready for something new - or old. Jason had some really nice costumes in the past.




> Zdarsky writing Red Hood, in my opinion, is just as wonderful news as Rosenberg writing him. I'm pumped about this news. DAREDEVIL has been off the charts good. This is going to be awesome.


I prefer Rosenberg because I know that he likes Red Hood. I don't know how Zdarsky feels about the character. How is Zdarsky treating other characters in Daredevil? Do they have well thought out personalities - or are they are just one-dimensional representations of aspects about/contrasts to the main character?




> Long time lurker/first post
> 
> I will read that mini series, but i sure hope that the Red Hood solo isnÂt cancelled. He needs is own comic.
> 
> Hope we will have news soon.


Welcome to the thread, long time lurker.  :Smile: 
Let's just all hope that Jason will get/keep his own comic.





> Just noticed that Red Hood 52 dropped "Outlaw" from its title. 
> 
> Maybe issue 75 will drop the "Hood" next and it'll just be Red  going forward.


The "Outlaw" is gone since Red Hood #51. The title has gotten shorter and shorter over time - just like Jason's costumes.  :Big Grin: 
(And I'm still a little annoyed that suddenly everyone else - except Jason, the Outlaw #1 - is an outlaw in Future State.)

----------


## Zaresh

> I prefer Rosenberg because I know that he likes Red Hood. I don't know how Zdarsky feels about the character. How is Zdarsky treating other characters in Daredevil? Do they have well thought out personalities - or are they are just one-dimensional representations of aspects about/contrasts to the main character?


Apologies in advance: I'm talking a bit like Yoda today for whatever reason. And I think my English is going to suffer from it.

Chip is a freelancer.
If he's writing for Jason, I'm sure he is because he likes the character.
And he seems to be friends with Matthew Rosenberg. They tweet each other almost every week. So I'm going to guess that he definitely chose Jason for the story with Batman and not what editorial mandated over him.

I thought he was more likely to write Nightwing (who is a lot more like DD), but I guess Dick's too morally uhm, clear, and law oriented for picking his interest. I mean, this is the guy who co-created Sex Criminals with Fraction  :Big Grin: .
And in my experience, he seems to get a good understanding of the characters he writes. His Spider-man: Life Story is said to be a new classic for a reason, and I haven't read it yet, but I bet his Daredevil will be a recommended run for the character eventually.

I think Rosenberg is a more suitable writer for the character, but darn, Zdarsky is a good choice too. Maybe we're lucky, and they rotate writing stories for the character. I think both will be tied to this new anthology for a while, not just for a story alone. So let's hope for the best outcome  :Cool:

----------


## Hannibal

Is Rosenberg rumored to be the next writer of Red Hood?

----------


## Zaresh

> Is Rosenberg rumored to be the next writer of Red Hood?


No, but we know he likes Jason a lot. A lot lot.

----------


## Hannibal

> No, but we know he likes Jason a lot. A lot lot.


That would be so awesome.

----------


## Zaresh

> That would be so awesome.


It would. It would indeed. I think many of us here think the same  :Cool:

----------


## cc008

> I prefer Rosenberg because I know that he likes Red Hood. I don't know how Zdarsky feels about the character. How is Zdarsky treating other characters in Daredevil? Do they have well thought out personalities - or are they are just one-dimensional representations of aspects about/contrasts to the main character?
> [/SIZE]


Throughout the series, Punisher, Spider-Man, and Elektra have all appeared in fair capacity and they've all been there to challenge Matt, certainly not to prop him up. Even the Iron Man appearances have been enjoyable and not just shoehorned in. The surrounding DD cast like Foggy and district attorneys have their own personalities and I think Foggy's been written especially well. Zdarsky also has introduced a new NYPD detective.. one of the bigger recurring characters in the series to date who's personality has been well thought out. Fisk has been written very well and the lesser street level villains and other recurring characters all have their places that push the story forward. It's a really fantastic comic book.

Given how Chip has written witty and/or semi similar characters in the past... Spectacular Spider-Man (Pete and Torch), Two in One (Torch again), Invaders (Bucky), Daredevil (red Batman)... I think he definitely has the chops for Red Hood. I'm very excited to see how it turns out.

I think the only other option that would get me as excited as Rosenberg writing Jason would be Zdarsky writing Jason.

----------


## Sergard

Shawn Martinbrough

_"Character design for "Demetrius Korlee, Jr."/ #RedHood51 published by @DCComics. In stores now."_




Shawn Martinbrough

_"Just received comps of Part 2 (of 2) from the good folks at @DCComics. Gorgeous covers by @Danmora_c  & Skan. #redhood"_

----------


## Hannibal

Do you think it’s bad news that we haven’t heard anything for Red Hood solo for March? I know we learned he’s gonna be in the first act of Batman urban legends, but that can’t be just it..?

----------


## Trt-R5

> Do you think its bad news that we havent heard anything for Red Hood solo for March? I know we learned hes gonna be in the first act of Batman urban legends, but that cant be just it..?


March solicits will be realeased tomorow, so we'll find out soon enough.
But his comic hasn't sell that well in the past months, so there is the possibility that it won't continue.
On the other hand, I think it was kinda confirmed that most if not all comics that were still ongoing by december would continue in march. And there is also the fact that not only will he have a story in future state, but he seems to be given more center stage in some panels from death metal and other event comics this month (even if he hasn't an important role, but normaly he would be relegated to the background or not appear at all) that might mean that he will have at least some relevance in march

----------


## CorDaytona

> Do you think it’s bad news that we haven’t heard anything for Red Hood solo for March? I know we learned he’s gonna be in the first act of Batman urban legends, but that can’t be just it..?


We just got Nightwing (written by Tom Taylor), so maybe they're revealing it later today.

Man, if they actually axe his solo now that I _finally_ got my wish of Lobdell  leaving RH, I'm gonna be sad  :Frown:  

However, I took the fact that his book wasn't outright cancelled like others and actually given a bumper 2-issues arc (#51 and #52) as an indication the book will continue. Especially since they dropped the "Outlaw" subtitle, which might indicate it'll be called "Red Hood" to signal a new era and start with #53.

New here btw, been lurking for a couple of months!

----------


## Avi

I still think it's going to be Williamson. There aren't really any other red-suited characters left and he is still teasing red... but I could be wrong, of course.

Welcome to the forum!

----------


## CorDaytona

> I still think it's going to be Williamson. There aren't really any other red-suited characters left and he is still teasing red... but I could be wrong, of course.
> 
> Welcome to the forum!


Oh, I hadn't noticed that in his Twitter account, could very well be. 

And thank you!

----------


## Drako

> I still think it's going to be Williamson. There aren't really any other red-suited characters left and he is still teasing red... but I could be wrong, of course.
> 
> Welcome to the forum!


I also think it's going be him. I was wishing to be Williamson writing Nightwing, but i can't complain with Taylor. So i hope you guys can have a great writer in your book too.

----------


## RedBird

Firstly I just wanna say to the two newcomers, welcome to the forums!  :Smile: 




> I still think it's going to be Williamson. There aren't really any other red-suited characters left and he is still teasing red... but I could be wrong, of course.
> 
> Welcome to the forum!


Honestly I've been partially suspecting the same, if only because he is already writing the future state Red Hood story and we've seen a few writers confirmed to be continuing with their future state one off characters in new on going titles. But with that being said, my first guesses for Williamson were actually, from most to least likely, either a new Titans book, Nightwing and then Red Hood and or Wildstorm both being on about the same level. Though I suppose I can cross Nightwing off the list now.




> I also think it's going be him. I was wishing to be Williamson writing Nightwing, but i can't complain with Taylor. So i hope you guys can have a great writer in your book too.


I know it's seen as a rarity in these forums, but personally, as someone who loves both characters, the news about Taylor has already made my day, so if Red Hood also gets a title and a decent writer, I'll be pretty stoked.
That said, fandom solidarity is always nice to see.  :Smile:

----------


## Drako

> I know it's seen as a rarity in these forums, but personally, as someone who loves both characters, the news about Taylor has already made my day, so if Red Hood also gets a title and a decent writer, I'll be pretty stoked.
> That said, fandom solidarity is always nice to see.


I can't say Jason is one of my favorite characters, but i like him and if Williamson is really writing i'll follow his book. 

About the fandom solidarity, this forum is so jaded that i rather try to be positive about things than to be a downer. Especially after two years of Ric, i don't wish that on any fandom.

----------


## RedBird

> About the fandom solidarity, this forum is so jaded that i rather try to be positive about things than to be a downer. Especially after two years of Ric, i don't wish that on any fandom.


I couldn't tell what was worse, two years of a comic for one of my favourite characters becoming so utterly unreadable, or two years of the fandom constantly striking down and snuffing out any various positive discussions because of it.

Comics can be frustrating at times, so the more fandom positivity that can be spread, the better.

EDIT: Oh forgot to ask, out of curiosity, what is it about Williamsons writing that you find appealing enough to follow? I don't think I've read enough from them to gauge how I feel about their writing, but could you perhaps provide some pros?

----------


## Vordan

Williamson is going to get Shazam I think.

----------


## RedBird

> Williamson is going to get Shazam I think.


Ah, that would make sense too, that's another added to the list of possibilities for Williamson, above all the rest actually.

----------


## Drako

> I couldn't tell what was worse, two years of a comic for one of my favourite characters becoming so utterly unreadable, or two years of the fandom constantly striking down and snuffing out any various positive discussions because of it.
> 
> Comics can be frustrating at times, so the more fandom positivity that can be spread, the better.
> 
> EDIT: Oh forgot to ask, out of curiosity, what is it about Williamsons writing that you find appealing enough to follow? I don't think I've read enough from them to gauge how I feel about their writing, but could you perhaps provide some pros?


I loved what he did with Wally and the Flash Family, he treated them with respect. And he made me like a Barry Allen book. So if he can make me have interest in Barry Allen, he can do it with whatever character in the DC lore.

----------


## RedBird

> I loved what he did with Wally and the Flash Family, he treated them with respect. And he made me like a Barry Allen book. So if he can make me have interest in Barry Allen, he can do with whatever character in the DC lore.


Oh, ha, funny you mention that, I felt the same way about Barry Allen, I never had much of an interest for him until the Rebirth Flash book, whereupon I found him to be much more appealing and endearing as a character.

----------


## CorDaytona

https://twitter.com/Williamson_Josh/...07422126604290

Damian? Could be a non-Batfamily character too, but that was my first thought.



> Firstly I just wanna say to the two newcomers, welcome to the forums!


Thanks!  :Big Grin:

----------


## RedBird

> https://twitter.com/Williamson_Josh/...07422126604290
> 
> Damian?
> 
> Thanks!


Looks like it, considering several panels of Talia have been teased from the same artist this does help to connect those dots.

Still no clue where Red Hood will be post future state.

----------


## Zaresh

> I still think it's going to be Williamson. There aren't really any other red-suited characters left and he is still teasing red... but I could be wrong, of course.
> 
> Welcome to the forum!


Not very enthusiastic with the idea. I ended dropping Flash. It really bored me like 12-14 issues in. Edit: it probably didn't help that I'm a Wally fan and I can't care for Barry a lot when he's repeating some of Wally's storylines and conflicts.

----------


## CorDaytona

> Looks like it, considering several panels of Talia have been teased from the same artist this does help to connect those dots.
> 
> Still no clue where Red Hood will be post future state.


You're right, didn't know about that! Seems like a foregone conclusion then.

I'm kinda worried we won't get a solo (still would bet on it though). I really want a talented creative team and nice narrative and aesthetic break that sets him on a new direction. I guess we'd at least have to look forward to Future State and the Batman anthology thing, some other characters have it way worse :/

----------


## Konja7

> Looks like it, considering several panels of Talia have been teased from the same artist this does help to connect those dots.
> 
> Still no clue where Red Hood will be post future state.


Well, Red Hood will be in a story Batman Urban Legends (where he team up with Batman). 

It is possible they want to build expectations with that story before they relaunch a solo.

----------


## Hannibal

Would be such a disappointement for me to only see RH in Urban Legends in march...

Maybe Zdarsky or Rosenberg are only available later in 2021 for a full time run on Red Hood..?

Any DC official news regarding this would be nice, at this point...

----------


## Trt-R5

> Looks like it, considering several panels of Talia have been teased from the same artist this does help to connect those dots.
> 
> Still no clue where Red Hood will be post future state.


There is a photo where the artist teased future projects and there is one that has r'as, what looks to be harley quinn and half of Jason's face.

https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...381255685?s=20

----------


## CorDaytona

> There is a photo where the artist teased future projects and there is one that has r'as, what looks to be harley quinn and half of Jason's face.
> 
> https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...381255685?s=20


He also uploaded today a picture showing a Damian figurine, so I think his main project will be Damian related. I wonder what that one with R'as, Harley and most likely Jason is

----------


## Sergard

> Well, Red Hood will be in a story Batman Urban Legends (where he *team up* with Batman). 
> 
> It is possible they want to build expectations with that story before they relaunch a solo.


I don't think they team up. 




> Writer Chip Zdarsky and artist Eddy Barrows will lead the anthology, with a six-part Batman/Red Hood story that finds Jason Todd investigating a new lethal drug that is sweeping Gotham City. "In the course of one night, this investigation will change his life forever  and *put him in Batman's crosshairs*," reads DC's announcement.


This sounds more like they are enemies. I could be wrong though.


But I will be disappointed if Jason doesn't get a solo. DC took away his family, his home, his friends, his dog and his kids - for what? Right now it feels like Jason has nobody/nothing once again. (Not counting the current Hill arc because it's filler.)

----------


## Arsenal

> What's your definition of "wider DCU"?
> 
> The All Caste was specifically created for Jason.
> Ma Gunn was specifically created for Jason in his post-crisis origin story.
> I guess the Outlaws - the team name - was specifically created for Jason. 
> This version of Bizarro was specifically created for the Outlaws.
> 
> Artemis - I give you that - is awesome.
> Jason-Roy friendship is nice but I still wished Jason could have a better best friend. Don't get me wrong. I don't want to throw shade on Roy - but his character is in a bad position - and not because he's dead. But neither the Arrow franchise nor the Titans franchise seem to be particularly interested in his character. And I don't think DC is interested enough in giving Roy a solo. Green Arrow himself didn't have a solo for quite some time. Which is sad. The Arrow family is so big but feels so overlooked.
> ...


While it's true many of those things were built around Jason, they still have roots or connections to the wider DCU that would have made them otherwise inaccessible had the wider DCU been completely ignored. I'm all for the book being a largely self contained series that isn't dragged into constant crossovers, I just don't think cutting it off completely from everything else would be beneficial either. 




> Would be such a disappointement for me to only see RH in Urban Legends in march...
> 
> Maybe Zdarsky or Rosenberg are only available later in 2021 for a full time run on Red Hood..?
> 
> Any DC official news regarding this would be nice, at this point...


Solicits come out tomorrow so we'll have an answer soon. Even if it turns out he doesn't have a book out in March, I wouldn't be all that worried. Way I see it, they wouldn't  of bothered to give him a back up story in Future Slate if they at least didn't have some plans in the works for him in the (relatively) near future.


Plus, in all honesty, I wouldn't even mind his solo spinning out of Zdarsky's story if it means we'll  keep him as the ongoing writer.

----------


## Konja7

> While it's true many of those things were built around Jason, they still have roots or connections to the wider DCU that would have made them otherwise inaccessible had the wider DCU been completely ignored. I'm all for the book being a largely self contained series that isn't dragged into constant crossovers, I just don't think cutting it off completely from everything else would be beneficial either. 
> 
> 
> 
> Solicits come out tomorrow so we'll have an answer soon. Even if it turns out he doesn't have a book out in March, I wouldn't be all that worried. Way I see it, they wouldn't  of bothered to give him a back up story in Future Slate if they at least didn't have some plans in the works for him in the (relatively) near future.
> 
> 
> Plus, in all honesty, I wouldn't even mind his solo spinning out of Zdarsky's story if it means we'll  keep him as the ongoing writer.


Honestly, we already know DC has plans for Jason in the near future. 

Jason (along Batman) seems to be the face for Batman Urban Legends anthology. He will be in 6 issue arc (at least) in what seems to be the "main story".


That seems to be more than Barbara, who seems to be supporting character for Dick.

----------


## Arsenal

> Honestly, we already know DC has plans for Jason in the near future.


That's my point  :Stick Out Tongue:  

Zdarsky's Jason/Batman story in Urban legends already blew past my expections of what his post Future State fate may look like.  While I would _love_ to have an ongoing alongside it, I don't think it would automatically be a bad sign if he doesn't end up with one either.

----------


## Zaresh

If it helps...

Solicit for Zdarsky's story seems to imply it's from Jason's POV, which is something that makes me think he's the main focus of the drama, and he's the one who moves and suffers the story, not Bruce. If he's initially a suspect, I'm guessing things will soon move towards Jason being proved innocent of whatever bad stuff Batman blames him, and then both resume the inquiry together, as a team. It's a common buddy cop storyline that works fine for a mini of six, I think.

----------


## CorDaytona

Well, just in case I'm gonna pretend there's no solo ongoing as I'm about to get some sleep (it's late where I live).

At the very least Nightwing's new thing is exciting.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Welp, no Red Hood on March solicits

http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stori...18/dcmarch.htm

----------


## Arsenal

Surprised DC’s only putting out 20 new books in March.

----------


## Hannibal

Sad and pissed... Damn DC...

After his run in Batman Urban Legends, he better get his solo back, ffs..

----------


## Konja7

> Welp, no Red Hood on March solicits
> 
> http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stori...18/dcmarch.htm


I'm not surprised. In fact, after I see him on Batman Urban Legends, I was almost sure Jason won't get a solo in March. 

DC really want to decrease the amount of comics. So, they won't likely put him on the anthology if he has a solo.

----------


## Hannibal

> I'm not surprised. In fact, after I see him on Batman Urban Legends, I was almost sure Jason won't get a solo in March. 
> 
> DC really want to decrease the amount of comics. So, they won't likely put him on the anthology if he has a solo.


But Harley is in the anthology and she still has a solo.

I’m pissed right now..

----------


## RedBird

I'm disappointed, but not even remotely surprised anymore.

----------


## Konja7

> But Harley is in the anthology and she still has a solo.
> 
> I’m pissed right now..


Harley is like Batman for DC, so she can appear in many things. 

The situation of Jason is similar to Poison Ivy, who seems to be only on that anthology (with Harley).

----------


## CorDaytona

Oh fuck off DC lmao.

Why wouldn't they stop the ongoing after Lobdell's departure then? The bumper/filler arc gave me hope.

8 years wishing for Lobdell to leave only to have the book straight-up cancelled after it finally happens, I'm kinda pissed ngl.

----------


## Hannibal

> Oh fuck off DC lmao.
> 
> Why wouldn't they stop the ongoing after Lobdell's departure then? The bumper/filler arc gave me hope.
> 
> 8 years wishing for Lobdell to leave only to have the book straight-up cancelled after it finally happens, I'm kinda pissed ngl.


Same here. I hope DC see the mistake that their making..

----------


## Drako

It seems like some stories will spin off to other books. Williamson is only writing two back-ups that start and end in March, there is no way he doesn't get another book of his own. So maybe the anthology with Red Hood will get him a new series after it ends.

----------


## CorDaytona

> Same here. I hope DC see the mistake that their making..


I guess he could have something after the Zdarsky anthology (kinda like how you'd expect Aquaman will have something of his own down the line). However, I'm not counting on it, not in the near future anyways. It's not like he's a best-selling character iirc (which is partly why I'm bummed, as I can totally see why the sales weren't great considering the quality of his book).

Man, what a dissapointment. I know (I think?) many around here like Lobdell's run, but I really, really didn't. Except for the first few arcs of Rebirth, I found his work on RH incredibly mediocre or middling at best, especially during the New 52 days. I was so ready for a new ongoing with hopefully better quality and more interesting plot, but lol no.

----------


## Hannibal

Is their hope Zdarsky gets full time Red Hood solo after his run in Batman Urband Legends, somewhere in August?

----------


## Konja7

> It seems like some stories will spin off to other books. Williamson is only writing two back-ups that start and end in March, there is no way he doesn't get another book of his own. So maybe the anthology with Red Hood will get him a new series after it ends.


Honestly, if Williamson gets a new book, I think it is more possible Williamson will continue Damian story in the back-up. 

After all, the back-up of Batman is a good promotion, so they could continue that.

----------


## CorDaytona

> It seems like some stories will spin off to other books. Williamson is only writing two back-ups that start and end in March, there is no way he doesn't get another book of his own. So maybe the anthology with Red Hood will get him a new series after it ends.


Oh, that's a good point, yeah! It'd be weird if he doesn't get anything else, limited or ongoing. So maybe, don't want to be hopeful though, just in case.

At least we got some excitement over Nightwing, finally.



> Is their hope Zdarsky gets full time Red Hood solo after his run in Batman Urband Legends, somewhere in August?


That'd be a dream, but I don't know. Would he be able to tackle on two monthly ongoings plus the other stuff he's got? He's not getting off the DD train anytime soon, it seems.

I also think he might be a bit too high profile/sought-after these days for a character like Jason. But that's not to say it couldn't happen, especially if he likes him (really don't know).

----------


## Konja7

> I guess he could have something after the Zdarsky anthology (kinda like how you'd expect Aquaman will have something of his own down the line). However, I'm not counting on it, not in the near future anyways. It's not like he's a best-selling character iirc (which is partly why I'm bummed, as I can totally see why the sales weren't great considering the quality of his book).
> 
> Man, what a dissapointment. I know (I think?) many around here like Lobdell's run, but I really, really didn't. Except for the first few arcs of Rebirth, I found his work on RH incredibly mediocre or middling at best, especially during the New 52 days. I was so ready for a new ongoing with hopefully better quality and more interesting plot, but lol no.


Yeah. The sales weren't good, which seems to be a big problem. 

I think Batgirl has better sales than Red Hood, but she seems to be relegated to supporting character in Batman, Nightwing and Joker (she seems to be the supporting character to Jim Gordon).

----------


## Aahz

Also no Aquaman, not Batgirl and no Justice League Dark, wondering if they might launch some titles a little bit later...

----------


## Konja7

> Oh, that's a good point, yeah! It'd be weird if he doesn't get anything else, limited or ongoing. So maybe, don't want to be hopeful though, just in case.
> 
> At least we got some excitement over Nightwing, finally.


Honestly, I think it is a lot more possible than Williamson would continue in Damian's ongoing. After all, he seems to be promoting his back-up in Batman.

----------


## Zaresh

> Welp, no Red Hood on March solicits
> 
> http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stori...18/dcmarch.htm


Ugh. Seriously, these people doing questionable marketing. The character is rising among fans, he's coleading their next game and he's one if not the most popular character of the show  they're releasing. This is what being blindmust be comercial wise.

Whatever. I guess I'll stick just to Chip's anthology story.

Of course, royalty will have their books. Of course.

----------


## Drako

> Honestly, if Williamson gets a new book, I think it is more possible Williamson will continue Damian story in the back-up. 
> 
> After all, the back-up of Batman is a good promotion, so they could continue that.


I know, that's why i said that maybe this anthology will get Red Hood a new series. I used Williamson as a example of writers that will surely get a new book, but not the Red Hood one.

These short stories seems to be about laying the groundwork for the upcoming books.

----------


## CorDaytona

> Honestly, I think it is a lot more possible than Williamson would continue in Damian's ongoing. After all, he seems to be promoting his back-up in Batman.


Oh, I know, I was talking about him not being in a long-running series as an indication that there'll be some more series launched down the coming months.

I don't know who would be tackling RH if that were to happen. Zdarsky would be amazing, but I'm not really not counting on it.

Seriously, the fact that Red Hood: Outlaw dropped the subtitle and had two unnecessary issues (enjoyed #51, so I'm not talking about the quality) is genuinely weird if they don't intend to continue his book in the very near future. Some other characters had clear cut endings or cancellations.

----------


## Zaresh

> Oh, that's a good point, yeah! It'd be weird if he doesn't get anything else, limited or ongoing. So maybe, don't want to be hopeful though, just in case.
> 
> At least we got some excitement over Nightwing, finally.


Hmmm... I didn't post in Dicks thread because I fear to sound pesimistic. But I don't think it's going to be something I'll enjoy. Taylor can write fun things, but I suspect this is not going to be the kind of fun many of you expect. He has his... hum, his way of approaching drama and espectacularity that's very over the top. I know it sounds badly after these news with Jason. I like Dick, I like reading him, and this new book with Taylor... I feel wary towards it.

Fraction or any other writer who has had already a good output of suspense-with-fun is something I would've hoped for Dick.

I hope I'm wrong though, and Taylor surprises me or you guys there like the book. Also, he can't kill him if he's the lead, right?

----------


## CorDaytona

> Hmmm... I didn't post in Dicks thread because I fear to sound pesimistic. But I don't think it's going to be something I'll enjoy. Taylor can write fun things, but I suspect this is not going to be the kind of fun many of you expect. He has his... hum, his way of approaching drama and espectacularity that's very over the top. I know it sounds badly after these news with Jason. I like Dick, I like reading him, and this new book with Taylor... I feel wary towards it.
> 
> Fraction or any other writer who has had already a good output of suspense-with-fun is something I would've hoped for Dick.
> 
> I hope I'm wrong though, and Taylor surprises me or you guys there like the book. Also, he can't kill him if he's the lead, right?


With the little (basically DCeased stuff and some Injustice iirc) I read of Taylor, I do agree with you.

However, I'd imagine he'd change his tune a little bit considering how different of a beast Nightwing stuff is. His words and the small preview gave me confidence.

----------


## Trt-R5

There's a chance DC is pulling a "deathstroke" and put batman and red hood on the same comic to drive up sales and boost interest and then take him out and let the character support the book himself

----------


## Arsenal

> Hmmm... I didn't post in Dicks thread because I fear to sound pesimistic. But I don't think it's going to be something I'll enjoy. Taylor can write fun things, but I suspect this is not going to be the kind of fun many of you expect. He has his... hum, his way of approaching drama and espectacularity that's very over the top. I know it sounds badly after these news with Jason. I like Dick, I like reading him, and this new book with Taylor... I feel wary towards it.
> 
> Fraction or any other writer who has had already a good output of suspense-with-fun is something I would've hoped for Dick.
> 
> I hope I'm wrong though, and Taylor surprises me or you guys there like the book. Also, he can't kill him if he's the lead, right?


That sounds like a challenge.

----------


## Konja7

> Oh, I know, I was talking about him not being in a long-running series as an indication that there'll be some more series launched down the coming months.
> 
> I don't know who would be tackling RH if that were to happen. Zdarsky would be amazing, but I'm not really not counting on it.
> 
> Seriously, the fact that Red Hood: Outlaw dropped the subtitle and had two unnecessary issues (enjoyed #51, so I'm not talking about the quality) is genuinely weird if they don't intend to continue his book in the very near future. Some other characters had clear cut endings or cancellations.


I suspect they don't cancel Red Hood book earlier, because Batman Urban Legends.

DC clearly want to use Jason in this anthology, since he is in a six part story (at least). I think that's the reason why they mantain Red Hood book. 

Compare this with Barbara, which Batgirl book was canceled earlier. She is relegated to supporting character in Batfamily books.

----------


## Zaresh

> With the little (basically DCeased stuff and some Injustice iirc) I read of Taylor, I do agree with you.
> 
> However, I'd imagine he'd change his tune a little bit considering how different of a beast Nightwing stuff is. His words and the small preview gave me confidence.


Good to hear. I hadn't read that perview :/.

----------


## Drako

> Hmmm... I didn't post in Dicks thread because I fear to sound pesimistic. But I don't think it's going to be something I'll enjoy. Taylor can write fun things, but I suspect this is not going to be the kind of fun many of you expect. He has his... hum, his way of approaching drama and espectacularity that's very over the top. I know it sounds badly after these news with Jason. I like Dick, I like reading him, and this new book with Taylor... I feel wary towards it.
> 
> Fraction or any other writer who has had already a good output of suspense-with-fun is something I would've hoped for Dick.
> 
> I hope I'm wrong though, and Taylor surprises me or you guys there like the book. Also, he can't kill him if he's the lead, right?


I mean, you can say whatever you want there, it's not like his thread doesn't already have people with doubts about the new creative team. It's your opinion, feel free to share there too.

But i rather not discuss this here, since it's a thread about Jason, should focus on him.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Is worth pointing out that there's an unusually low amount of titles being published in March so there's a small chance that either Comics Continuum got an incomplete list or that DC is planned a staggered release for more series over the next few months, and thus Red Hood solo might show up later.

----------


## Arsenal

For what little it’s worth, Jason is on the cover of Infinite frontier.

----------


## CorDaytona

> I suspect they don't cancel Red Hood book earlier, because Batman Urban Legends.
> 
> DC clearly want to use Jason in this anthology, since he is in a six part story (at least). I think that's the reason why they mantain the book. 
> 
> Compare this with Barbara, which Batgirl book was canceled earlier. She is relegated to supporting characters in Batfamily books.


Idk, I still don't see much logic behind that. As in, Batman: Urban Legends is its own thing, numbering, creative talent, cast (beyond Batman) and all, so it's not like they felt forced to continue the RH solo for two more issues to get to a certain place.

The Martinbrough stuff seems to be its own thing with no link with whatever Zdarksy is doing (pure speculation, for sure), so they might have as well cancelled the book after 50 (which put an end on a decade of solo adventures) and start with Future State and the anthology a new era where Jason is, for the time being, a recurring character without his solo. The existence of these two issues changes nothing, really.

My more optimistic side tells me that issue 53 will come out in the near future and take him new directions after whatever happens in Urban Legends, but I really don't feel like listening to that part of my brain.




> For what little it’s worth, Jason is on the cover of Infinite frontier.


With the Outlaw outfit still!  :Frown:  

But yeah, for those who didn't see it: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he..._medium=social

----------


## RedBird

> Man, what a dissapointment. I know (I think?) many around here like Lobdell's run, but I really, really didn't. Except for the first few arcs of Rebirth, I found his work on RH incredibly mediocre or middling at best, especially during the New 52 days. I was so ready for a new ongoing with hopefully better quality and more interesting plot, but lol no.


I'd say that's honestly not too far off from my own feelings about Rhato. The thing I've most appreciated is the stability that the book provided and the new additions to Jasons lore, coming off of the back of the mess that was post BFTC pre-52 Red Hood, it was certainly much more appreciated as a direction. But ultimately in terms of writing, the new52 series was pretty mediocre all round, very run of the mill. I've said this before but whilst new52 rhato certainly had it's good moments, they were too few and far between to ever call the overall product, 'good'.

Rebirth was a different story, at least in the beginning. Heck, the Rebirth series turning out to be actually decent for once was one of the main reasons I joined the forum to discuss the book. Post issue 25 even that meandered as well, albeit not quite as much as the New52 book, and funnily enough, with the declining quality of books around DC for the past couple of years, it still looked better than most titles by comparison. 

But yeah, I too was hoping for a fresh new writer as well. Only hope now is a book launching from the anthology, or further announcements down the road I suppose. There were mentions of DC not relaunching all titles at once anymore so on the plus side, perhaps there could still be more in store.

On the negative side though, another factor that kept and is still keeping my future expectations down for Red Hood is the fact that, unfortunately, interest for the character has always appeared very low, at least from the comics side of things. All despite the very clear growing interest outside of comics.

I'm not too sure what to make of the Red Hood situation anymore.

----------


## Zaresh

> I mean, you can say whatever you want there, it's not like his thread doesn't already have people with doubts about the new creative team. It's your opinion, feel free to share there too.
> 
> But i rather not discuss this here, since it's a thread about Jason, should focus on him.


I dunno. I honestly to god don't want to add to the negativity there, and I know that threads of each character are like the place you want to be reading at least some positiveness. I feel bad posting my fears there nowadays.

But you're right, here isn't the best place either.

Maybe I can rant in Twitter.

Edited again: and Batgirl being cancelled doesn't make any sense either. What the heck.

----------


## CorDaytona

> I'd say that's honestly not too far off from my own feelings about Rhato. The thing I've most appreciated is the stability that the book provided and the new additions to Jasons lore, coming off of the back of the mess that was post BFTC pre-52 Red Hood, it was certainly much more appreciated as a direction. But ultimately in terms of writing, the new52 series was pretty mediocre all round, very run of the mill. I've said this before but whilst new52 rhato certainly had it's good moments, they were too few and far between to ever call the overall product, 'good'.
> 
> Rebirth was a different story, at least in the beginning. Heck, the Rebirth series turning out to be actually decent for once was one of the main reasons I joined the forum to discuss the book. Post issue 25 even that meandered as well, albeit not quite as much as the New52 book, and funnily enough, with the declining quality of books around DC for the past couple of years, it still looked better than most titles by comparison. 
> 
> But yeah, I too was hoping for a fresh new writer as well. Only hope now is a book launching from the anthology, or further announcements down the road I suppose. There were mentions of DC not relaunching all titles at once anymore so on the plus side, perhaps there could still be more in store.
> 
> On the negative side though, another factor that kept and is still keeping my future expectations down for Red Hood is the fact that, unfortunately, interest for the character has always appeared very low, at least from the comics side of things. All despite the very clear growing interest outside of comics.
> 
> I'm not too sure what to make of the Red Hood situation anymore.


You're taking words out of my mouth lmao, because I'm the same, as the thing I appreciated most about Lobdell's time with Jason was the character stopping being relegated to a villain, wild card or whatever and finally given some much needed stability. I don't know if Lobdell personally pushed for a more heroic, solo-worthy character, but if so, I'm thankful. 

And yeah, I genuinely quite liked the beginning arcs of Rebirth. Absolutely loved Artemis and Bizarro and, of course, Soy's amazing art and designs (my favourite take on Red Hood, for instance). After that, while I enjoyed the first few Outlaw issues and some of the Prince of Gotham stuff, I found everything way too unfocused, rushed and convoluted, even if it was still better than N52 RH. For as exciting as the prospect of the Dark Trinity reuniting sounded, it didn't land with me, and after Artemis and Bizarro returned, I honestly couldn't even tell you what was going on. Never cared for the All Caste or the Untitled, so there's also that.

Regarding popularity, I notice a lot of people who like the character myself, but that might very well be a vocal minority. He's indeed on the rise at least outside of comic stuff, and seems to be the most consistently liked out of the Gotham Knights as a playable character in polls and the like, or at least on par with Dick. Then there's the Titans show, as well as, of course, UtRH and its latest iteration this year.

I don't really follow (or have a great understanding of for that matter) comic sales, but yeah, I seem to recall they weren't great or were in a downward trend. All the more reason, imo, for DC to try something drastically new to capitalize on his apparent multimedia appeal. Which is what Urban Legends might be, mind you. I just like the certainty of an ongoing compared to an anthology focused on, of course, Batman.

----------


## Shadowcat

If Jason doesnt get a new book after FS, I hope when they relaunch theyll get Zdarsky on it, with maybe Pete Woods returning on art.

----------


## Drako

> Albert Ching who works in DC's marketing department confirms that more books will be coming post-March: https://twitter.com/albertxii/status...88267194699777


There's still chance for his book.

----------


## Zaresh

> Is worth pointing out that there's an unusually low amount of titles being published in March so there's a small chance that either Comics Continuum got an incomplete list or that DC is planned a staggered release for more series over the next few months, and thus Red Hood solo might show up later.


I was wondering now.

What if they left out the only digital releases? Are they included in the solicits?




> There's still chance for his book.


Oh, good. Good.

----------


## DragonPiece

Bat group editor confirms Chip Zdarsky's red hood story is the continuation of his ongoing series: https://www.cbr.com/interview-ben-ab...-future-state/


So don't expect a ongoing until after the 6 issue arc finishes..

----------


## Drako

> Bat group editor confirms Chip Zdarsky's red hood story is the continuation of his ongoing series: https://www.cbr.com/interview-ben-ab...-future-state/
> 
> 
> So don't expect a ongoing until after the 6 issue arc finishes..


Makes sense.

----------


## Godlike13

I think RHatOs only lasted as long as it did because of Lobdell. There came a point where it existed for him. With DC cleaning house, Lobdell gone, and new books coming out for shops to fill out their selves. The book got the chop. Which honestly is a shame, cause I too was looking forward to the prospect of a Red Hood book by someone other then Lobdell. I’m surprised they are even keeping Nightwing going.

----------


## Hannibal

I just hope that Zdarksy will stay and start a Red Hood solo after those 6 issues of Urban Legends around August.

Please DC.

----------


## RedBird

> So don't expect a ongoing until after the 6 issue arc finishes..


So potentially, nothing but a 15-16 page cameo in the months all till September, plus with no guarantee thus far of anything after that. _sigh_

----------


## Arsenal

> So potentially, nothing but a 15-16 page cameo in the months all till September, plus with no guarantee thus far of anything after that. _sigh_


To be fair, the Urban Legends story seems to be a Jason story featuring Bruce not the other way around. So there’s that.

----------


## Konja7

> Bat group editor confirms Chip Zdarsky's red hood story is the continuation of his ongoing series: https://www.cbr.com/interview-ben-ab...-future-state/
> 
> 
> So don't expect a ongoing until after the 6 issue arc finishes..


I would say this reinforces my theory that they don't canceled the comic in Red Hood #50, because Batman Urban Legends.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Welp, it was a good run but I guess this is it for me and DC comics once the RH story ends in Urban Legends.

----------


## Restingvoice

Is The Hill still in though is what I want to know

----------


## Sergard

> Welp, no Red Hood on March solicits
> 
> http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stori...18/dcmarch.htm


Not surprised. Still disappointed and sad.
It's not just Jason.
Literally, where is everyone? Where's Batwoman, where's Duke, where are Cass, Steph and Tim? Where's Azrael? 

I'm not saying that the list of titles is bad. There are Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Nightwing, Catwoman, etc. - decades-old characters with hundreds of stories and fan bases that grew and grew over the decades thanks to all those stories. So there will be a lot of buyers for these books.

But how are other characters supposed to get more popular and have a similar development when DC isn't giving them the same treatment?

I'll give Urban Legends a try. Not just for Jason, but for Grifter and Outsiders too. And because there's nothing else of interest for me (not counting The Dreaming: Waking Hours #8 which I'm definitely looking forward to).

Oh, and I see Dexter Soy's name among the Infinite Frontier #0 artists. It's good to see that he's still around. I hope he'll be on some on-going title again in the future. I love his style.

----------


## cc008

i'm excited for Urban Legends. Me thinks something could spin out of that. My hopes anyway. And it keeps $$ in my pocket during these trying times.

----------


## Restingvoice

Albert Ching, DC marketing, said there will be more titles after March, but said no more. 
https://twitter.com/albertxii/status...88267194699777

----------


## Konja7

> Albert Ching, DC marketing, said there will be more titles after March, but said no more. 
> https://twitter.com/albertxii/status...88267194699777


It has been mentioned that Batman Urban Legends is the "continuation" of Jason's solo.

So, a solo before the Jason's six month arc in Batman Urban Legend ends (at least) is extremely unlikely.

Now, a Jason solo after that arc ends is in doubt too. DC doesn't lkkely hasn't plan so far yet.

----------


## Aahz

> DC doesn't lkkely hasn't plan so far yet.


Not sure it is usually said that it takes about 6 month for a comic issue to come out, so if there is going to put out a Red Hood book after Urban Legends, they need to have a plan for it.

It is of course possible that they gonna stick with the anthology format.

----------


## CorDaytona

The dream scenario right now is that after his story in the anthology ends, Zdarsky tackles on a new ongoing/continues from #53 and the Batman: Urban Legends stuff marks a new status quo for Jason. Giving him a chance to breathe outside of Lobdell's influence and see if this hypothetical book's resulting sales correspond to the perceived popularity of the character outside comics or if there's just little interest for Jason comics.

Not even gonna entertain that possibility though, I'm kinda tired of DC's stupid management.

----------


## Hannibal

> The dream scenario right now is that after his story in the anthology ends, Zdarsky tackles on a new ongoing/continues from #53 and the Batman: Urban Legends stuff marks a new status quo for Jason. Giving him a chance to breathe outside of Lobdell's influence and see if the resulting sales correspond to the perceive popularity of the character.
> 
> Not even gonna entertain that possibility though, I'm kinda tired of DC's stupid management.


That would be THE DREAM! Please DC, don’t let Red Hood fans down...

Finger crossed.

----------


## Arsenal

It might also be worth remembering that RHATO rebirth debuted 2 months after the initial Rebirth roll out in June 2016. The same thing could happen here too.

----------


## RedBird

> It might also be worth remembering that RHATO rebirth debuted 2 months after the initial Rebirth roll out in June 2016. The same thing could happen here too.


Sure, but at that time, rhato rebirth was announced alongside every other comic being released for rebirth. Two month gap or not, it was a sure thing to look forward to. Compare that to the current situation, with a possible 8 month gap, with still no clear indication of a solo book on the horizon. This circumstance is by far more grim.

Still, at least there is the news of a quality writer providing some kind of short story for the time being, here's hoping it leads to something more. In the meantime I may just catch up on Zdarskys Daredevil series to see what all the fuss is about.

----------


## Arsenal

> Sure, but at that time, rhato rebirth was announced alongside every other comic being released for rebirth. Two month gap or not, it was a sure thing to look forward to. Compare that to the current situation, with a possible 8 month gap, with still no clear indication of a solo book on the horizon. This circumstance is by far more grim.
> 
> Still, at least there is the news of a quality writer providing some kind of short story for the time being, here's hoping it leads to something more. In the meantime I may just catch up on Zdarskys Daredevil series to see what all the fuss is about.


That’s fair. Just trying to give some hope that it may not be as bad as it seems is all. 

In the meantime, I do hope we’ll get to hear some more about what Zdarsky has planned for his story in Urban Legends sometimes soon.

----------


## RedBird

> Thats fair. Just trying to give some hope that it may not be as bad as it seems is all. 
> 
> In the meantime, I do hope well get to hear some more about what Zdarsky has planned for his story in Urban Legends sometimes soon.


For sure, hopefully soon we'll also see some teaser pages or panels for the story.

----------


## Rac7d*

Will his book debut later in the year?

----------


## Zaresh

> Will his book debut later in the year?


We can only hope... It doesn't look like it's going to be within the first half.

----------


## Restingvoice

I wanna say a 6 issue mini or feature fits the idea if they wanna launch a new series but don't know how they'll receive it... I don't personally think Jason needs that... but maybe the one they want to convince is WB/AT&T who's really tightening the ship. 

Red Hood isn't officially canceled in December with a FINAL ISSUE right? The writer said that he's only there to transition, so they _are_ planning to continue it, they just... maybe don't have a set status quo yet so they're stalling for now... or it's a matter of convincing WB/AT&T... 

Or they really... simply using this feature to set up what's the relation between Batman and Red Hood's going to be, because that usually determines the direction. Like if he's staying in Gotham or not. Batfam or Outlaw. Staying or traveling's gonna need a different setup, right? So this is the prep.

----------


## Rac7d*

> We can only hope... It doesn't look like it's going to be within the first half.


Hopefully before Titans season 3

----------


## Konja7

> I wanna say a 6 issue mini or feature fits the idea if they wanna launch a new series but don't know how they'll receive it... I don't personally think Jason needs that... but maybe the one they want to convince is WB/AT&T who's really tightening the ship. 
> 
> Red Hood isn't officially canceled in December with a FINAL ISSUE right? The writer said that he's only there to transition, so they _are_ planning to continue it, they just... maybe don't have a set status quo yet so they're stalling for now... or it's a matter of convincing WB/AT&T... 
> 
> Or they really... simply using this feature to set up what's the relation between Batman and Red Hood's going to be, because that usually determines the direction. Like if he's staying in Gotham or not. Batfam or Outlaw. Staying or traveling's gonna need a different setup, right? So this is the prep.


I've never put my trust in the lack of FINAL ISSUE for December solicitations. It was a weird time.

Honestly, I really think Red Hood solo is canceled for a while (at least).

The sales of Red Hood is what make me doubt they will continue. Batgirl has better sales, but her comic is canceled.

----------


## Sergard

Red Hood #52 preview is out.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Red Hood #52 preview is out.


Knowing this is the final issue makes it hard to care about.

----------


## CorDaytona

Especially since this mini arc is so inconsequential (which doesn't mean I'm not enjoying it).

Hardly care about the Future State stuff either.

Although I guess the Urban Legends stuff could pick up some things from both the Hill arc and FS. Only 6 issues though and then probably just guest appareances until god knows when.

----------


## Sergard

> Knowing this is the final issue makes it hard to care about.


It's the only Red Hood story I care about currently.
I like Shawn Martinbrough's writing style. And I definitely enjoy this little RHatO #1 reference in the preview.

----------


## Jackalope89

Its not bad, its just hard wrapping my head around Jason once living in The Hill as a kid.

----------


## Sergard

> Its not bad, its just hard wrapping my head around Jason once living in The Hill as a kid.


Jason was a street kid. He didn't exactly live anywhere and probably had many hideouts.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Jason was a street kid. He didn't actually live anywhere and probably had many hiding spots.


Looking at a map of Gotham, I guess Jason's usual area is right next to the Hill. So crossing over now and then is possible.

----------


## CorDaytona

Come to think of it, do we know what Joshua Williamson's red avatar is supposed to be? 

I don't really follow him much, so I don't even if it has a meaning, was a tease or whatever. Damian's new look doesn't seem to have any red. I guess it could be another look in the future, another title or simply nothing, but my stupid mind tells me Red Hood even if it's not going to be that  :Stick Out Tongue: 




> It's the only Red Hood story I care about currently.
> I like Shawn Martinbrough's writing style. And I definitely enjoy this little RHatO #1 reference in the preview.


There were some very comfy moments with Jason in #51. Love the ones where he's having a beer in the roof and then goes dancing with Dana.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Come to think of it, do we know what Joshua Williamson's red avatar is supposed to be? 
> 
> I don't really follow him much, so I don't even if it has a meaning, was a tease or whatever. Damian's new look doesn't seem to have any red. I guess it could be another look in the future, another title or simply nothing, but my stupid mind tells me Red Hood even if it's not going to be that 
> 
> 
> 
> There were some very comfy moments with Jason in #51. Love the ones where he's having a beer in the roof and then goes dancing with Dana.


That mega-chin though...

----------


## AmiMizuno

Do you guys think they will ever have him date Artemis?

----------


## Jackalope89

> Do you guys think they will ever have him date Artemis?


By the time Jason gets his own book again, we'll be happy just to have that.

----------


## CorDaytona

They seem to be kinda pushing towards Rose and Jason as a couple tbh. Artemis I assume will be doing her own thing in WW-related stuff. 

Unless Jason gets another solo, I can't see them even referencing his relationship with Artemis, sadly.




> That mega-chin though...


Lmao, yeah, that's my only problem with the Jason design. Well, and the fact that he's essentially Capullo's Bruce. 

Beyond that, I like the design even if my ideal Jason is Soy's:
3fd0a50993f77fc55db0766e2fcd5c8d201895e1r1-2048-1280v2_00.jpg

Also, don't know what the opinion in this thread is regarding Jason having a white streak in his hair, but I like that. Helps him stand out from the other Robins, who usually end up looking very similar otherwise unless drawn together (and even then).

I don't love his Gotham Knights design however (nor the base outfit, the DCYou one is one my least favourite of his).

EDIT: speaking of the devil, some alternative skins for GK seen in some dev T-shirts.

Glad to see a hard material on Jason's mask. Dick's looking really armoured à la Arkham series.

----------


## gwhh

I love these lines.

----------


## Sergard

> Come to think of it, do we know what Joshua Williamson's red avatar is supposed to be? 
> 
> I don't really follow him much, so I don't even if it has a meaning, was a tease or whatever. Damian's new look doesn't seem to have any red. I guess it could be another look in the future, another title or simply nothing, but my stupid mind tells me Red Hood even if it's not going to be that


Could also be Red X or some Flash character. I know Red X will already appear in _Titans Academy_ but maybe the character is getting a solo too.
And, you know, after skimming through _Dark Nights: Death Metal: The Last Stories of the DC Universe_ I don't think it's a bad thing if Joshua Williamson is not writing _Red Hood_.




> Do you guys think they will ever have him date Artemis?


"ever" is a very flexible time frame, so probably. One day some writer will use the pairing once again. Maybe in main continuity if it still fits or in an alternate universe.
In the near future? No. Jason is stuck in the bat franchise and Artemis has returned to the Wonder Woman franchise.




> They seem to be kinda pushing towards Rose and Jason as a couple tbh. Artemis I assume will be doing her own thing in WW-related stuff. 
> 
> Unless Jason gets another solo, I can't see them even referencing his relationship with Artemis, sadly.


Joshua Williamson mentioned on Twitter that he likes to write Jason and Rose together. But that's _Future State_ and doesn't have to mean anything for main continuity.





> [...]Also, don't know what the opinion in this thread is regarding Jason having a white streak in his hair, but I like that. Helps him stand out from the other Robins, who usually end up looking very similar otherwise unless drawn together (and even then).


I like the white streak - as long as it isn't a) a consequence from the Lazarus pit (because that's nonsensical) or b) given to Jason in order to keep the Robins apart. If Jason has a white streak, the white streak should be purely about Jason - and not about Dick, Tim and Damian. So if DC ever wants to give Jason a white streak in main continuity then they have to come up with a complete new - and good(!) - story with 100% focus on Jason.




> I don't love his Gotham Knights design however (nor the base outfit, the DCYou one is one my least favourite of his).


I like the Gotham Knights design and the base outfit. With the thick vest it would be a great winter outfit/outfit for colder regions. My absolute favorite is still the Rebirth outfit though. New52 is good too without the mouth on the helmet. And you can never go wrong with the classic Red Hood from BUtRH. 




> EDIT: speaking of the devil, some alternative skins for GK seen in some dev T-shirts.
> 
> Glad to see a hard material on Jason's mask. Dick's looking really armoured à la Arkham series.


Nice. Alternative skins. Give me more.  :Cool:

----------


## CorDaytona

> Could also be Red X or some Flash character. I know Red X will already appear in _Titans Academy_ but maybe the character is getting a solo too.
> And, you know, after skimming through _Dark Nights: Death Metal: The Last Stories of the DC Universe_ I don't think it's a bad thing if Joshua Williamson is not writing _Red Hood_.


You know, I've seen some people say it might be Clownhunter. I don't think it's a terrible guess. I suppose he could be a brand new character, although I imagine they'd want someone established for the surprise and all of that.

I can't say I've read much of his (that I can remember), so I don't really have an opinion. I'm curious about his Future State stuff with Jason at the very least (it's a bit tiring to have Jason be aligned with the bad guys, but it could be fun and it's not a concept I dislike by default). And yeah, his FS story will probably have no effect on whatever Red Hood will do in Infinite Frontier, but it seems like the whole FS deal won't simply be a "what-if" scenario and will have some ramifications in the overall continuity set in the present.




> I like the white streak - as long as it isn't a) a consequence from the Lazarus pit (because that's nonsensical) or b) given to Jason in order to keep the Robins apart. If Jason has a white streak, the white streak should be purely about Jason - and not about Dick, Tim and Damian. So if DC ever wants to give Jason a white streak in main continuity then they have to come up with a complete new - and good(!) - story with 100% focus on Jason.


I'm fine with it as long as it's not a Lazarus Pit product, yeah, his body should be as good as new. Say it's fucking stress or whatever lmao. On that note, I wonder about the story behind it in GK, as well as his scar. I'm honestly betting it'll have to do with his resurrection, but I guess the scar could be to show how harsh his Red Hood vigilante days are.




> I like the Gotham Knights design and the base outfit. With the thick vest it would be a great winter outfit/outfit for colder regions. My absolute favorite is still the Rebirth outfit though. New52 is good too without the mouth on the helmet. And you can never go wrong with the classic Red Hood from BUtRH.


Give me a cool leather jacket or nothing  :Stick Out Tongue:  Honestly, though, I can't put my finger on what I don't love about his DCYou/GK base design, as I don't find it a bad design by any means. 

In any case, his proportions I think could be toned down just a _tiny_ little bit, mostly the upper torso. I like it when he's portrayed as a really muscular guy, but with a certain degree of stylization, instead of his Arkham series Batman-like shape. The helmet I straight-up dislike, don't like how small the eyes are and how it's made of cloth/a flexible material instead of metal or whatever. 

Cool to have such a focus on alternative skins, from the sound of it. Beyond original stuff (like that shirt seems to show), the ones I'd be dissapointed if they're not in the game are the Rebirth suit (love how stylized it looks and the Metal Gear Solid-esque armour), the UtRH designs (both the movie and comic designs are great) and the Three Jokers' one (even if the Robin inspiration I'd like toned down a little bit).

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Well, the final issue wasn't that bad. 

It still feel like Jason was a guest on his own book since the story was first and foremost about Martinbrough new characters with Jason being just a mean to tell their story, but Martinbrough grasp on Jason this issue was a lot stronger than the previous and much to my delight, it acknowledged Lobdell's run. We get a namedrop from the Outlaws and Croc and Jason are on pretty cordial terms, much like they were when they met during the Suicide Squad crossover. Jason and Bruce's relationship seems to have gone back to how it was before the whole Outlaw thing happened and that final page gives me hope for the Subzero ripoff having its time counted. It still sucks if this is the last we see of Jason in a solo series though but it was good send-off if that is the case.

----------


## Arsenal

Reading 51 & 52 does make me wish we had more shorter arcs sprinkled in the back half of the rebirth RHATO run. Wouldn't of minded a couple brief stories of Jason alone and dealing with the aftermath of issue 25 before moving on to the Underlife arc.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Reading 51 & 52 does make me wish we had more shorter arcs sprinkled in the back half of the rebirth RHATO run. Wouldn't of minded a couple brief stories of Jason alone and dealing with the aftermath of issue 25 before moving on to the Underlife arc.


That was the intention, but Event Leviathan rushed everything.

----------


## RedBird

Well, this may be the last Red Hood issue, and honestly despite the disadvantage it has of just being a filler arc, it was still quite a decent issue to close on.

Overall for the arc, there's some really good worldbuilding here, and though the shaping of the Hills identity here may have been helped partly due to it's spiritual predecessor, there's still plenty of new conflicts happening to make the location seem fresh and fully realised, even to new readers. A recent interview mentioned that this story had a partly classic Western approach to it, and it shows, it does feel like the kind of tale where a well meaning protagonist/Outlaw has walked right in the middle of a town with conflict. As a result, the warring factions here and especially the villains are given more time in the book to be fleshed out, but honestly for such a short arc, that's a fair trade to see a more fully realised world and setting. What little we do see of Jasons character is either innocuous or more so accurate to how he has been characterised in the Rhato series, so that was neat. Personally as a side note, whilst these more domestic elements are pleasant to read, I do miss a little of the brutality of the Red Hood, as it seems to be slipping further away from the character. Though I want to make it clear this isn't a criticism of this arc in particular, just a trend I've noticed.

I have to also mention the use of Killer Croc in this arc which I was initially sceptical of in issue #51 due to the presumed regression of him as a villain. No matter how good it was to see Croc in a stylish suit again, it wouldn't have been worth it to see the majority of his New52 characterisation of a more misunderstood and sympathetic character thrown out the window. Fortunately issue #52 brought more context to his role in the turf war, plus his interaction with Jason was still amiable and civil as it's always been in Rhato, Croc remains a morally ambiguous but relatively civil and understandable character.

As mentioned the ending is a neat send off. *spoilers:*
Bruce watching over Jason was a nice touch. Plus him giving Jason a housewarming gift for his new apartment, was a nice and subtle way of essentially welcoming him back to Gotham.
*end of spoilers* I'm hoping the strained relationship doesn't magically reform from just that, but regardless, let's see how long the truce lasts this time. XD

I still remain thoroughly confused as to why this series was pushed to #52 issues when most other titles that have been cancelled and don't appear to be returning ended at #50. I could understand if say the story and arcs for the series required two more issues to wrap up, however, adding more so to the confusion was the fact that issue #50 of Rhato saw the books long time writer leave and close off the series, if the intention was to cancel it, it would have been an absolutely appropriate time to end it at issue #50, it had already been wrapped up. Stretching it to another two issues just for filler feels needless. Granted the filler in question was enjoyable and also managed to have a nice ending to it, but regardless nothing that happened here feels all that necessary to kick off the new anthology story that is coming up and is supposedly continuing off from Rhato (especially since Tec already has Jason interacting with the Bats with no questions). It's made all the more obvious from the lack of a 'to be continued in' message at the end of the issue which is usually what would appear in these kinds of situations. The mixed messages of keeping this run going only two issues after it had already wrapped up implies that either there's more coming after/during the anthology, or sad to say, that the titles cancellation was really made at the last minute.

----------


## Zaresh

I have this hunch that the new anthology is in fact a 4 in 1 book. And Red Hood is going to be a regular. Outsaiders, too, I suspect. And they will follow the actual numbering of the series and being collected into trades under those, hum,  legacy names and numbering.

----------


## Konja7

> I have this hunch that the new anthology is in fact a 4 in 1 book. And Red Hood is going to be a regular. Outsaiders, too, I suspect. And they will follow the actual numbering of the series and being collected into trades under those, hum,  legacy names and numbering.


I agree with most of this, since I also suspect Red Hood will be a regular in the anthology. 

However, I don't think Red Hood will have a solo in trades either. I think something like "Batman and Red Hood" is more likely for a trade.

After all, Batman will likely be a regular in most stories of this anthology too, since his name is in the title.

----------


## Hannibal

I’m still a believer that Red Hood is gonna get is solo back after his anthology run.

Might be a wish, but i think it’s still a good bet. Red Hood is too much of a up and coming force and well like to be sideline.

----------


## Konja7

> I’m still a believer that Red Hood is gonna get is solo back after his anthology run.
> 
> Might be a wish, but i think it’s still a good bet. Red Hood is too much of a up and coming force and well like to be sideline.


The are a good amount of popular characters outside comics that don't have a solo.

In the comics side, Red Hood doesn't seem so popular, since his comics doesn't usually have good sales. And popularity outside comics won't usually benefit comic sales. 

Not to mention that Jason could still be an active member in comics even without a solo. For example: Jason being a regular in the anthologies.

I've already mentioned that Jason seems to be in better position than Barbara (although Batgirl comic usually sells better than Red Hood).

----------


## Zaresh

> I agree with most of this, since I also suspect Red Hood will be a regular in the anthology. 
> 
> However, I don't think Red Hood will have a solo in trades either. I think something like "Batman and Red Hood" is more likely for a trade.
> 
> After all, Batman will likely be a regular in most stories of this anthology too, since his name is in the title.


Hummm, I don't know. The name for the #52 was Red Hood alone, and that's a weird thing to change in the last issue of a series (an easy thing to change back to the original "and the outlaws", too, if they had decided that there won't be more just Red Hood series, too). The future state specials are also called Red Hood. And Batman's role in Urban Leyends story seems to be more secondary than Jason's; so I doubt he's going to be in folowing stories. Batman in the tittle of the antology seems to be a marketting choice. I mean, I wouldn't collect the trades, that are aimed to fans and followers of certain characters or teams, under another's character name, a name that throws as big a shadow as Batman's. Let's say I'm a fan of Black Canary (I'm not). I wouldn't mind reading an anthology for the Arrow fam (and if I were a casual reader, I would like to read one under the main chara's name. It would pick my curiosity, I think); but I don't think I would be interested in a "Green Arrow and Black Canary" so much, because... Dinah's story with Oliver and stuff, and she's a pretty independent member of the fam, as much as she's the on and off ship for Oliver.

That being said, I honestly think DC should list under just Red Hood everything after Under the Hood; Outlaws, Arsenal, Outlaw, everything. Not Under the Hood itself, because that's actually a Batman story.

Well, let's just hope our guesses aren't too off.

----------


## Konja7

> Hummm, I don't know. The name for the #52 was Red Hood alone, and that's a weird thing to change in the last issue of a series (an easy thing to change back to the original "and the outlaws", too, if they had decided that there won't be more just Red Hood series, too). The future state specials are also called Red Hood. And Batman's role in Urban Leyends story seems to be more secondary than Jason's; so I doubt he's going to be in folowing stories. Batman in the tittle of the antology seems to be a marketting choice. I mean, I wouldn't collect the trades, that are aimed to fans and followers of certain characters or teams, under another's character name, a name that throws as big a shadow as Batman's. Let's say I'm a fan of Black Canary (I'm not). I wouldn't mind reading an anthology for the Arrow fam (and if I were a casual reader, I would like to read one under the main chara's name. It would pick my curiosity, I think); but I don't think I would be interested in a "Green Arrow and Black Canary" so much, because... Dinah's story with Oliver and stuff, and she's a pretty independent member of the fam, as much as she's the on and off ship for Oliver.
> 
> That being said, I honestly think DC should list under just Red Hood everything after Under the Hood; Outlaws, Arsenal, Outlaw, everything. Not Under the Hood itself, because that's actually a Batman story.
> 
> Well, let's just hope our guesses aren't too off.


As you say, Batman in the anthology is a marketing choice, but I think this make a "Batman and Red Hood" more likely. 

Batman is a big seller. So, DC could find "Batman and Red Hood" has better opportunities to sell more in trade too. 

Honestly, I think Red Hood fans who won't buy a comic where Jason has an important role because Batman is also in the title are likely in the minority.

Instead, the "complicated" relationship between Batman and Red Hood usually attract people, even although they aren't fans of Red Hood.


PS: Batman won't dissapear from "Batman: Urban Legends". Even if he has a secondary role, he will still likely be in most of these stories.

----------


## Zaresh

> As you say, Batman in the anthology is a marketing choice, but I think this make a "Batman and Red Hood" more likely. 
> 
> Batman is a big seller. So, DC could find "Batman and Red Hood" has better opportunities to sell more in trade too. 
> 
> Honestly, I think Red Hood fans who won't buy a comic where Jason has an important role because Batman is also in the title are likely in the minority.
> 
> Instead, the "complicated" relationship between Batman and Red Hood usually attract people, even although they aren't fans of Red Hood.
> 
> 
> PS: Batman won't dissapear from "Batman: Urban Legends". Even if he has a secondary role, he will still likely be in most of these stories.


Every time I look at my Lost Days trade I feel the Batman there in the begining of the tittle is so stupid, and meaningless, because it's not about Batman at all. Dumb marketing choice, imho. If I were a Batman fan I would feel lied to. And it does pisses me off a bit that the title has an unnecessary Batman.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Urban Legends is effectively, Batman the Brave & The Bold under a different name. The stories presented might swap the main protagonist role around but it is first and foremost a Batman book, assuming this book will have Jason in a relevant role after his arc is over is just setting yourself for disappointment. 

As for the idea of the cancellation happening at the last minute, is pretty much impossible barring some specific and extraordinary circumstances (as in "the creative got involved in a scandal" type). Editorial has planned things in advance for at least three months and sometimes the planning goes as far as six months. Sure, sometimes things change here and there in the meantime but the general direction remains untouched.

----------


## Arsenal

I am kinda surprised it didn’t even get a “Next: Future Slate!” type of thing.

----------


## Konja7

> Urban Legends is effectively, Batman the Brave & The Bold under a different name. The stories presented might swap the main protagonist role around but it is first and foremost a Batman book, assuming this book will have Jason in a relevant role after his arc is over is just setting yourself for disappointment. 
> 
> As for the idea of the cancellation happening at the last minute, is pretty much impossible barring some specific and extraordinary circumstances (as in "the creative got involved in a scandal" type). Editorial has planned things in advance for at least three months and sometimes the planning goes as far as six months. Sure, sometimes things change here and there in the meantime but the general direction remains untouched.


They likely know the Red Hood solo won't return in March. I agree it wouldn't be cancellations at the last minute. 

It is more likely they just don't want (or care) to mention the books are canceled. After all, it was a weird time, since Future State will happen after that. 

It is also possible it was related to Jason being relevant in a six part arc (at least) of Batman Urban Legends.


PS: Aquaman comic doesn't have a FINAL ISSUE in November or December solicitations, but the comic seems to be cancelled (I've read rumores that there aren't plans for an ongoing in 2021).

----------


## Godlike13

They might not have been sure. DC themselves are in transition, but they still needed books for shops to put on their selves. So they kept books going. But it could be a situation where they figured out Future State and then reevaluated what books they were going to put out. That being said RHatOs continual existence never made traditional sense.

----------


## Arsenal

There's some preview art of the Red Hood story in Batman: Urban Legend's in DC COONNECT #8

https://www.dccomics.com/reader/#/comics/467121

Page 8.

----------


## Hannibal

> There's some preview art of the Red Hood story in Batman: Urban Legend's in DC COONNECT #8
> 
> https://www.dccomics.com/reader/#/comics/467121
> 
> Page 8.


Looks real good!

Imagine if we would have a Red Hood solo by Zdarksy and Barrows! Holy cow!!

----------


## Zaresh

> There's some preview art of the Red Hood story in Batman: Urban Legend's in DC COONNECT #8
> 
> https://www.dccomics.com/reader/#/comics/467121
> 
> Page 8.


Art doesn't excite me exactly. I don't like the art style, but I already knew I wasn't going to like it when I read who the artist was (Barrows is so not my cup of tea). I'm in on this one for the writer, to be honest.

----------


## Sergard

Red Hood #52 was nice. I enjoyed this little filler arc for what it was. It was also the last story I was looking forward to.

Batman group editor Ben Abernathy calls Batman: Urban Legends a Bat-Family anthology (interview). My personal guess: Jason is only there for this six-issue-story - and after that some other bat-family character will take the spotlight for a few issues and so on.

Also from the interview:




> [...]Fair enough! You mentioned that in Batman and Detective there are going to be stories about Robin. Are these stories exclusively about Damian Wayne?
> 
> Abernathy: Yep! The backups in March are all about Damian. It connects directly with what's been going on with him. Tim Drake is featured in the Future State: Robin Eternal book, and reminds folks of why Tim Drake is such a great character. Let's just say that Tim is not forgotten! *We have active plans for just about any core character you can name.*


Would have been nice to know who is and who isn't considered a core character.

----------


## Frontier

> Red Hood #52 was nice. I enjoyed this little filler arc for what it was. It was also the last story I was looking forward to.
> 
> Batman group editor Ben Abernathy calls Batman: Urban Legends a Bat-Family anthology (interview). My personal guess: Jason is only there for this six-issue-story - and after that some other bat-family character will take the spotlight for a few issues and so on.
> 
> Also from the interview:
> 
> 
> 
> Would have been nice to know who is and who isn't considered a core character.


Will I finally get a Batman and Batgirls team-up story?

----------


## RedBird

> As for the idea of the cancellation happening at the last minute, is pretty much impossible barring some specific and extraordinary circumstances (as in "the creative got involved in a scandal" type). Editorial has planned things in advance for at least three months and sometimes the planning goes as far as six months. Sure, sometimes things change here and there in the meantime but the general direction remains untouched.


I don't understand why or how this point about a three month plan negates a last minute cancellation. 
And to be clear by last minute, I'm referring to a cancellation made sometime after the decision of another 2 issue arc, and that's about it. Even the reveal in solicitations for issue #51 were all the way back in August, and we can only presume the new creative team was already on board way before that, whilst the public were just receiving announcements. So logically, even before August, there were plans to continue past issue #50, fast forward to December where ahead of us there is the two month gap that future state has created and three months from now, there doesn't seem to be a continuation in March. Not saying it's a guarantee, we're all just theorising here of course, but I don't think it's all that improbable that there was a change of plans in between all that time, especially when DC is already going through a shake up. 

The alternative here (beyond a doubtful April solicit reveal or post anthology reveal) is that the book was actually intended to have exactly #52 issues and no more, despite most other books ending at #50, despite the main writer leaving at #50, and despite everything in story already wrapping up at #50. A whole new creative team was brought on board for a two issue filler arc to cap off a series that could have more easily and appropriately ended two issues ago.




> Will I finally get a Batman and Batgirls team-up story?


Fingers crossed

----------


## Arsenal

Still, I’d like to think it’s a good sign that we are guaranteed to still have new Jason stories for (at least) the next 8 months. Means they must have some sort of game plan for the character otherwise they would of just stuck him in limbo.

----------


## Konja7

> Still, I’d like to think it’s a good sign that we are guaranteed to still have new Jason stories for (at least) the next 8 months. Means they must have some sort of game plan for the character otherwise they would of just stuck him in limbo.


I also hope DC has future plans for Jason. 

That said, I don't think that Jason having stories for the next 8 months means DC has already a game plan now. 

Jason has become a popular and recognizable character (especially outside comics). So, DC will try to mantain the character active.

However, it is possible he ends up as a regular in the anthology. Or a supporting character in other batbooks (like Barbara).

----------


## gwhh

a storyline of him and Supergirl would be a better story line.  I would love to see Superman and Batman reaction with there relationships. 

I love black mask train of logic here!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8L3U73Ia9Y





> Do you guys think they will ever have him date Artemis?

----------


## CPSparkles

> a storyline of him and Supergirl would be a better story line.  I would love to see Superman and Batman reaction with there relationships. .


Didn't Damian and Kara have a thing in Injustice? I like Jason and Rose or Artemis is also another great choice even though after wonderbat in DCeased I'm getting tried of the BatXmega powered shipping thing

Jason and Arty are the most organic and make the most sense.

There was a Superman/Batman issue that gave us kara and Jason working together. Where they had to fight Mongul or someone. I thought there was some mild flirting [or was that just my imagination] but thanks to injustice everytime I think of Kara and the bat boys, I see her cutting her hair because Damian

----------


## Jackalope89

> Didn't Damian and Kara have a thing in Injustice? I like Jason and Rose or Artemis is also another great choice even though after wonderbat in DCeased I'm getting tried of the BatXmega powered shipping thing
> 
> Jason and Arty are the most organic and make the most sense.
> 
> There was a Superman/Batman issue that gave us kara and Jason working together. Where they had to fight Mongul or someone. I thought there was some mild flirting [or was that just my imagination] but thanks to injustice everytime I think of Kara and the bat boys, I see her cutting her hair because Damian


There was also New52 Supergirl issues where she and Jason teamed up. 

And while I wouldn't say I'm against DC testing the waters on a Jason/Kara thing, Jason/Artemis was the best thus far. Best Bat/Wonder thing there is.

----------


## Zaresh

> Didn't Damian and Kara have a thing in Injustice? I like Jason and Rose or Artemis is also another great choice even though after wonderbat in DCeased I'm getting tried of the BatXmega powered shipping thing
> 
> Jason and Arty are the most organic and make the most sense.
> 
> There was a Superman/Batman issue that gave us kara and Jason working together. Where they had to fight Mongul or someone. I thought there was some mild flirting [or was that just my imagination] but thanks to injustice everytime I think of Kara and the bat boys, I see her cutting her hair because Damian


Jason and Kara had a short flirting thing in New 52. They team up and Jason dorkly flirts with her, who doesn't seem uninterested, but maybe just curious about the bat, I think.

----------


## Sergard

> a storyline of him and Supergirl would be a better story line.  I would love to see Superman and Batman reaction with there relationships. .


I do think Jason and Kara could be an excellent couple in an alternate universe (There are too many problems with main continuity, in my opinion.)

Who is Kara's current love interest in main continuity? Brainiac 5?

----------


## Jackalope89

> I do think Jason and Kara could be an excellent couple in an alternate universe (There are too many problems with main continuity, in my opinion.)
> 
> Who is Kara's current love interest in main continuity? Brainiac 5?


During Supergirl Rebirth, it was a classmate at her high school. Though it didn't last past the Bendis takeover, with Kara going to space. The LI though, did end up in Titans for awhile though. After that, no clue.

----------


## Sergard

Vasco Georgiev

_"Merry Christmas from Bizarro and friends  and from me too, of course!"_

----------


## Jackalope89

> Vasco Georgiev
> 
> _"Merry Christmas from Bizarro and friends  and from me too, of course!"_


That's REALLY good! And makes me miss the Rebirth Outlaws all the more.

----------


## Konja7

> I have this hunch that the new anthology is in fact a 4 in 1 book. And Red Hood is going to be a regular. Outsaiders, too, I suspect. And they will follow the actual numbering of the series and being collected into trades under those, hum,  legacy names and numbering.


In the case of Future State, the trades for Next Batman anthology include all the stories (and Future State Nightwing story too). 

So, I guess the Batman Urban Legends name will still be used for trades and include all the stories.

----------


## Zaresh

> In the case of Future State, the trades for Next Batman anthology include all the stories (and Future State Nightwing story too). 
> 
> So, I guess the Batman Urban Legends name will still be used for trades and include all the stories.


Well, Future State issues being collected under the Future State name makes sense because in the case of Red Hood, and Nightwing, are a two issues story each. But Zdarsky's Batman and Red Hood is going to last 6 issues: you can release a full trade with that amount.

I could be wrong, but I think there were rumours about editorial aiming to sell more books for bookstores and the like; and trades are easier to sell there, as far as I know.

----------


## Konja7

> Well, Future State issues being collected under the Future State name makes sense because in the case of Red Hood, and Nightwing, are a two issues story each. But Zdarsky's Batman and Red Hood is going to last 6 issues: you can release a full trade with that amount.
> 
> I could be wrong, but I think there were rumours about editorial aiming to sell more books for bookstores and the like; and trades are easier to sell there, as far as I know.


Remember that Future State: The Next Batman floppies are anthologies too (these have stories of Batgirls, Outsiders, between others). 

The trade for Future State: The Next Batman already has The Next Batman 1-4 (a group of antologies), Nightwing 1-2 and Dark Detective 1-3 (another group of anthologies). 

This size would probably be similar to a possible Batman: Urban Legends 1-6 in trade. 

Also, I wonder how many pages will have Batman/Red Hood story in Batman Urban Legends. 


PS: The books for bookstores are likely OGNs. I think this was the rumor.

----------


## Sergard

Eileen Widjaja

_"Celebrating Christmas with a BANG! I've wanted to try my hand at @musashinoelegy's Future State Red Hood design and figured this would be a good time as any. Merry Christmas to everyone who celebrates"_



_"bonus maskless jason"_

----------


## Celgress

> Vasco Georgiev
> 
> _"Merry Christmas from Bizarro and friends  and from me too, of course!"_


Love it  :Embarrassment:

----------


## Sergard

Artist: Sdimo




Artist: Sdimo



Artist: Shoucolate

----------


## Jackalope89

Found an interesting Jason and Roy fanfic. Normally I go for the Rebirth Outlaws, but this time, it makes sense. Else they would be too OP;

https://archiveofourown.org/works/27...pters/67138723

The boys, while Starfire is doing something else, get warped into the Star Wars Clone Wars series (season 5 or 6), and get found by Obi Wan and his forces. Pretty interesting so far, even includes the All-Blades. 10 chapters posted too.

----------


## Zaresh

> Found an interesting Jason and Roy fanfic. Normally I go for the Rebirth Outlaws, but this time, it makes sense. Else they would be too OP;
> 
> https://archiveofourown.org/works/27...pters/67138723
> 
> The boys, while Starfire is doing something else, get warped into the Star Wars Clone Wars series (season 5 or 6), and get found by Obi Wan and his forces. Pretty interesting so far, even includes the All-Blades. 10 chapters posted too.


Ah, this one, I'm following it. It's pretty fun, and they update it quite often.

----------


## Sergard

> Found an interesting Jason and Roy fanfic. Normally I go for the Rebirth Outlaws, but this time, it makes sense. Else they would be too OP;
> 
> https://archiveofourown.org/works/27...pters/67138723
> 
> The boys, while Starfire is doing something else, get warped into the Star Wars Clone Wars series (season 5 or 6), and get found by Obi Wan and his forces. Pretty interesting so far, even includes the All-Blades. 10 chapters posted too.


I've put it on my reading list. At least there are still fanfics to enjoy. Thank you for the recommendation.  :Smile: 



fishtre



The helmet visor of the first design looks a little like the Red Hood logo - and I generally like the idea of putting a character's logo somewhere else instead of on the chest. (Chest logos are a little old-fashioned.) The logo doesn't even have to be part of the outfit. It could be on a weapon - or if the character is super-powered, then the logo could even be the form of an attack. There are so many options to explore.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Death Metal is such a horrible trainwreck that I'm glad Jason was ignored through most of it besides some meaningless cameos.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I've put it on my reading list. At least there are still fanfics to enjoy. Thank you for the recommendation. 
> 
> 
> 
> fishtre
> 
> 
> 
> The helmet visor of the first design looks a little like the Red Hood logo - and I generally like the idea of putting a character's logo somewhere else instead of on the chest. (Chest logos are a little old-fashioned.) The logo doesn't even have to be part of the outfit. It could be on a weapon - or if the character is super-powered, then the logo could even be the form of an attack. There are so many options to explore.


Yeah, the logo visor is pretty good. But the rest of the helmet/color scheme just doesn't quite fit.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Yeah, the logo visor is pretty good. But the rest of the helmet/color scheme just doesn't quite fit.


Too much black?

----------


## CorDaytona

I was gonna say that for a future Jason I'd have love something more in the line of Red Ronin, by Dexter Soy. Maybe with a proper jacket. _Love_ the Gray Fox vibes he's got:
EE7H4-BXsAY2GZ6.jpg

EE7H8coWsAACxIO.jpg

And speaking of Soy: https://twitter.com/dextersoy/status...076099/photo/1 

He really seems to love the character, and I adore his artstyle and designs, so I hope he gets to draw him again sooner than later.

Re: RH #52, it was fun to read too. You can clearly see how they told Martinbrough not to do anything crazy with Jason (he's mostly a guest) and it's too short to amount to anything too meaningful, but I enjoyed the more grounded vibe (don't really like Jason's intergalactic/mystic adventures) and that ending with Batman. 

The present is most assuredly never going to be shown, but it'd be cool if it were a new outfit now that he's not an outlaw  :Stick Out Tongue:  He's sadly still wearing the MK getup in Urban Legends, though. I enjoy its street brawler vibes (when drawn by certain artists), but it has _really_ overstayed its welcome and there's nothing like leather/bomber jacket RH. I also dislike him having a hood constantly up (ironic, I know) and find him looking cooler like how Mora drew him in this cover:
REDHOTO_Cv52.jpg

This is his absolute best look during his Outlaw arc, though.

----------


## Arsenal

If Jason is ever portrayed as a mob boss again (for whatever reason), he should definitely keep the suit.

----------


## CorDaytona

> If Jason is ever portrayed as a mob boss again (for whatever reason), he should definitely keep the suit.


I'd honestly loved to have him tackling on gangs head on outside of Gotham and across the world, for the sake of change and new opportunities. The Prince of Gotham arc was very unfocused, rushed and didn't know what it wanted to be (might have been due to some editorial mandate, idk), but I liked the concept of Jason Todd being a public figure as Bruce's protegee and dealing with shady business on the side.

In any case, I'm on issue 16 of Zdarsky's DD and, while it's a shame it's only for six issues, I'm super excited to see what he does with Jason. Really loving what he's doing with Matt and Hell's Kitchen. He really has a grasp of grittier, grounder stories and characters, which is why I'd like for RH to focus on in the future.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Too much black?


Probably so.

----------


## Arsenal

> I'd honestly loved to have him tackling on gangs head on outside of Gotham and across the world, for the sake of change and new opportunities. The Prince of Gotham arc was very unfocused, rushed and didn't know what it wanted to be (might have been due to some editorial mandate, idk), but I liked the concept of Jason Todd being a public figure as Bruce's protegee and dealing with shady business on the side.
> 
> In any case, I'm on issue 16 of Zdarsky's DD and, while it's a shame it's only for six issues, I'm super excited to see what he does with Jason. Really loving what he's doing with Matt and Hell's Kitchen. He really has a grasp of grittier, grounder stories and characters, which is why I'd like for RH to focus on in the future.


I do wish the Prince of Gotham arc replaced Generation.: Outlaw as the YOTV tie-in. Jason taking advantage of resources freely given to him by Lex to dismantle a larger criminal organizations around the globe would’ve been a lot of fun. Kind of what Lobdell did in RH:O 34 (I think) but better executed.

----------


## CorDaytona

> I do wish the Prince of Gotham arc replaced Generation.: Outlaw as the YOTV tie-in. Jason taking advantage of resources freely given to him by Lex to dismantle a larger criminal organizations around the globe would’ve been a lot of fun. Kind of what Lobdell did in RH:O 34 (I think) but better executed.


Man, I found the Generation: Outlaw stuff so dull and uninteresting that I honestly had forgotten about it. Really, after Prince of Gotham, the run became a blur to me that I read by pure inertia (like N52 and DCYou RH), a shame after an enjoyable first few arcs. `

The YotV tie-in being what you say sounds so much more interesting than what we got, apart from making a lot of sense coming from the Iceberg Lounge thing. The trip to Paris was cool and I wanted more of that and not whatever Jason being a tutor was.

----------


## adrikito

From the same artist. I found the 2nd funny and I posted it too.  :Wink:   :Stick Out Tongue: 

Attachment 103670

Attachment 103669

----------


## Sergard

Any wishes or suggestions for the first post in the upcoming Appreciation 2021 thread?
I don't think it's of any use to list Jason's family, friends and enemies because they won't probably play a role next year.

----------


## Zaresh

> Any wishes or suggestions for the first post in the upcoming Appreciation 2021 thread?
> I don't think it's of any use to list Jason's family, friends and enemies because they won't probably play a role next year.


I don't know. Probably updating the upcoming stuff with Zdarsky mini and the supporting role in Harley Queen's side story for White Knight; and maybe adding other media, like the TV Show and the Gotham Knights game. And figures and statues too, because I think a lot of thread mates are really interested in them.

----------


## Arsenal

I’d keep the family and friends list, though I would shorten the friends list to just the big 4.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Any wishes or suggestions for the first post in the upcoming Appreciation 2021 thread?
> I don't think it's of any use to list Jason's family, friends and enemies because they won't probably play a role next year.


If we want to match it with what we know is going to be published, like for example, we know he's in Gotham, that he will have a clash of sorts with the Batfam in Future State and Bruce in the mini, then start with a recap of that relationship. 

The recap of the development of Jason's relationship with the relevant Batfam members leading up to that point. Also what he's been doing when he's in Gotham and how he feels about the city.

After that, once the story's out, we can complain if what they portray doesn't match ^^

----------


## Aahz

https://jjmk-jjmk.tumblr.com/post/63...d-2020-fan-art

----------


## RedBird

I think the Generation Outlaw stuff started out just fine and all, I definitely enjoyed aspects of it, but the way it fizzled out and was wrapped up in the end made it feel superfluous in the grand scheme of things. The way it also felt as though it 'interrupted' the grand return of the Dark Trinity was also a bit disappointing at the time.

Looking back, the Prince of Gotham arc rushing itself, especially towards the end, was probably one of the biggest missed opportunities of the series. I could have honestly had another two years or more of Jason as a casino owner, dipping his hands back into the underworld of Gotham, pulling a duel identity role as a wealthy public figure and unbeknownst to anyone not engaged with the underbelly of Gotham, a notorious but 'gentleman' mobster (similar to what Penguin tries) but also being the Red Hood, working for Casino owner Jason Todd and having himself on the payroll. Unlike most bat vigilantes Jason almost never gets to play with the duality of his civilian identity and his vigilante identity. This could have been an almost a twisted and slightly darker take on the Bruce or Brucie Wayne vs Batman duality. Plus that suit combo on that one cover was great, I was so disappointed that we never saw it in the story.

----------


## Restingvoice

> https://jjmk-jjmk.tumblr.com/post/63...d-2020-fan-art


That's Joker's gloves right. Ew.

----------


## RedBird

Nice! Art of Jason 2020

Lets see, theres; Titans Together #4 Jason, Hush route Death in the family animated film Jason, Red Hood Outlaw #48 Jason from a flashback, Three Jokers Jason when he is captured, Gotham Knights Jason and Hush dark multiverse Jason. 

Hopefully we'll see more new Jason content for 2021  :Smile:

----------


## Drako

> https://jjmk-jjmk.tumblr.com/post/63...d-2020-fan-art


Oh, cool artwork!
Just don't understand why the joker has three hands. haha

----------


## Aahz

> Oh, cool artwork!
> Just don't understand why the joker has three hands. haha


Because there were two Jokers in that scene from 3 Jokers.

----------


## Drako

> Because there were two Jokers in that scene from 3 Jokers.


Oh, so these are redraws of some of his stories, got it. 
Thanks!

----------


## Restingvoice

> Nice! Art of Jason 2020
> 
> Lets see, theres; Titans Together #4 Jason, Hush route Death in the family animated film Jason, Red Hood Outlaw #48 Jason from a flashback, Three Jokers Jason when he is captured, Gotham Knights Jason and Hush dark multiverse Jason. 
> 
> Hopefully we'll see more new Jason content for 2021


I didn't even realize that's supposed to be a scene from Three Jokers because he looks so young there in the fan art. I actually imagine A Death in The Family but fan version and the many hands are more metaphorical.

----------


## Hannibal

With what James Tynion said about Batman Urban Legends, i have more hope than never that Red Hood is gonna get his solo back after his run in Urban Legends!!

Yeaaaahh!!

----------


## Konja7

> With what James Tynion said about Batman Urban Legends, i have more hope than never that Red Hood is gonna get his solo back after his run in Urban Legends!!
> 
> Yeaaaahh!!


I'm not so sure about a solo for Red Hood. 

It seems they plan to use Urban Legends to promote new oneshots, miniseries and series.

However, this also mean DC doesn't have so much expectatives for a Jason solo yet (or he would return in March). 

I see more likely they will put him in a team.


PS: I guess it will depends on Jason reception in Urban Legends.

----------


## Hannibal

He clearly stated that Legends will be the starting point of futur solo. And the first big name in Legends is Red hood by Zdarsky.

I guess 1+1 =2

Well i sure hope so!

----------


## Arsenal

If nothing else, it should allow some to feel cautiously optimistic about his future going forward.

----------


## Sergard

> I don't know. Probably updating the upcoming stuff with Zdarsky mini and the supporting role in Harley Queen's side story for White Knight; and maybe adding other media, like the TV Show and the Gotham Knights game. And figures and statues too, because I think a lot of thread mates are really interested in them.


I can definitely do the first point. But for the figures and statues I'm probably going to need some help.





> Id keep the family and friends list, though I would shorten the friends list to just the big 4.


Who would you consider the big 4?






> If we want to match it with what we know is going to be published, like for example, we know he's in Gotham, that he will have a clash of sorts with the Batfam in Future State and Bruce in the mini, then start with a recap of that relationship. 
> 
> The recap of the development of Jason's relationship with the *relevant Batfam members* leading up to that point. Also what he's been doing when he's in Gotham and how he feels about the city.
> 
> After that, once the story's out, we can complain if what they portray doesn't match ^^


But Bruce is the only relevant batfam member. Theoretically, there is also Alfred - but Alfred is dead.






> https://jjmk-jjmk.tumblr.com/post/63...d-2020-fan-art


JJMK is such an awesome artist. Remember this piece?

----------


## Zaresh

> JJMK is such an awesome artist. Remember this piece?


We could use that new 2020 art for the new thread, actually. I guess they'll share a new one for New Year or maybe February, something more like an actual illustration than these small pieces that they put together in one picture. But in the meanwhile, it's a nice picture. Or we could give a peek to the back pages in this thread and select one for the new OP post.

I'm sorry, I can't help with those figures myself. I'm like some Jon Snow in regard to figures and statues: I know nothing. But I know some other users here know a ton about then. It would be great if any could post a brief post with info about the upcoming releases.

----------


## Sergard

Otto Schmidt

_"a white streak #redhood #jasontodd #dccomics"_

----------


## Arsenal

> I can definitely do the first point. But for the figures and statues I'm probably going to need some help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who would you consider the big 4?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Artemis, Biz, Kori & Roy. Out of his allies and friends, those are really the major ones he’s spent a good amount of on panel time with (and the ones most likely to be acknowledged/appear out of his own book). Rose might make it on that list eventually if DC decides to do something with them that isn’t an AU.

----------


## CorDaytona

> With what James Tynion said about Batman Urban Legends, i have more hope than never that Red Hood is gonna get his solo back after his run in Urban Legends!!
> 
> Yeaaaahh!!


What did he say again? All I remember is this tweet:



> "Very excited about the new BATMAN: URBAN LEGENDS series, not only for the stories you can see we've got in store for you right here in Issue #1, but ALSO everything I know is cooking for this book down the line!
> 
> GOTHAM 2021 is going to be the most exciting place in comics "


EDIT: oh, I found it: https://bleedingcool.com/comics/jame...and-the-joker/




> "For the first time in the history of my working in and around Gotham City, I have an answer to pretty much to the "where can I find THIS character" for every fan-favorite. Urban Legends is going to be a real gift. *A lot of storylines will be seeded in that title before they break out into their own titles**… There are also more books to come in the Gotham line as the year goes on.* Big moments in the core Gotham titles will set new runs in motion in other titles. Backups and shorts might turn into one-shots and miniseries and series, and we're working to make sure it all matters."


Not gonna lie, this actually gives me a lot of hope that we'll get a RH book after the 6 B:UL issues. Maybe a team-up one, but I think that, if he's in an ongoing, it'll be a solo book.

I'm legitimately excited to see the status quo for Jason after the drug trafficking storyline and will happen to him in the future. Hopefully little to no Batfamily drama, tired of it. The premise/synopsis might indicate a story whose main PoV is Jason's as theorized in the thread before, which would be cool.

----------

