# Comics  > Image Comics >  The Wicked + The Divine

## Celestin

A new issue is out and in my opinion it would be nice to have one thread for a discussion of the whole series.

Confirmed gods:
- Lucifer
- Amaterasu
- Baal
- Sakhmet
- Woden
- Inanna
- Minerva
- The Morrigan
- Tara
- Baphomet

That's ten and additionally there is Ananke as their guardian. That leaves two more and I suspect that Laura may turn out to be one of them if Gillen wants to have "be careful what you wish for" theme in the series.

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## joshuastar

right on!

I wonder how far we are into the recurrence. and do all the gods come back at the same time? if they come back at different times, do they each get two full years, or is it two years from the first?

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## Celestin

Gods with their possible pantheons and symbols which is something I didn't have time to add in the first post.

Amaterasu - Japanese mythology. (12th hour symbol)

Lucifer - Christianity and she's the odd one since she's not a god in her religion. (1st hour symbol)

Sakhmet - Egyptian mythology. (2nd hours symbol)

Baphomet - occult and another odd choice. (3rd hour symbol)

Minerva - Roman mythology. More or less Greek Athena. (4th hour symbol)

Woden - Anglo-Saxon mythology. More or less Norse Odin. (5th hour symbol)

The Morrigan - Irish mythology. (6th hour symbol)

Inanna - Sumerian mythology. (8th hour symbol)

Tara - Buddhism or Hinduism going by the comics. Additionally Polynesian mythology or the Druidic religion after checking wikipedia. Popular name that one. (9th hour symbol)

Baal - ancient Near Eastern mythology. (10th hour symbol)

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## El Sombrero

I think I'm done with this book.  I was let down by #1 and couldn't really get into #2 either.  I think this book has a great concept but the execution isn't really working for me.  Gillen just tries WAY too hard to be hip and the book feels so in love with itself that it's a turnoff.  I had the exact same problem with Young Avengers; Gillen has these tendencies to begin with, and it seems like McKelvie brings the worst out of him.  I generally like comics with more of an indie sensibility, but this is so hipster it hurts.

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## Kid A

Yeah Gillen's style is way too self-conscious and try-hard to take seriously.

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## El Sombrero

> Yeah Gillen's style is way too self-conscious and try-hard to take seriously.


Yep, "self-conscious" was the term I was thinking of but couldn't recall.

It's a shame because the art is really excellent and I like the overall idea, and even some of the characters seem interesting with solid dialogue, but the try-hard stuff as you said just goes wayyyyy overboard.

I think this has become a problem with a lot of popular writers and books right now, especially at Image.  KSD's Pretty Deadly would have been a lot better if the story was presented more clearly and didn't treat itself like the most high-art thing ever created.  Hickman's East of West would be better if it didn't treat itself like the most important story ever created.

The reason why Saga works, unlike the above mentioned titles, is that the series isn't completely in love with itself and still feels humble.  Same thing with Sex Criminals, that's another title that has a bit of a hipster feel to it but doesn't take itself so seriously that it feels like you need to put on your THIS IS SERIOUS BUSINESS hat when you read it.

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## Left Hook

After the 1st issue, I considered dropping it. A lot of ppl like it though, so maybe I missed something, maybe I half-passed read it on a bad day. So I decided to give issue 2 a shot. It's not for me. 


Question, when you guys say it feels like the book feels too important for itself, did the end essay have anything to do with it? I get that from the book too, but can't really put my finger on why.

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## Dorktron

> Yep, "self-conscious" was the term I was thinking of but couldn't recall.
> 
> It's a shame because the art is really excellent and I like the overall idea, and even some of the characters seem interesting with solid dialogue, but the try-hard stuff as you said just goes wayyyyy overboard.
> 
> I think this has become a problem with a lot of popular writers and books right now, especially at Image.  KSD's Pretty Deadly would have been a lot better if the story was presented more clearly and didn't treat itself like the most high-art thing ever created.  Hickman's East of West would be better if it didn't treat itself like the most important story ever created.
> 
> The reason why Saga works, unlike the above mentioned titles, is that the series isn't completely in love with itself and still feels humble.  Same thing with Sex Criminals, that's another title that has a bit of a hipster feel to it but doesn't take itself so seriously that it feels like you need to put on your THIS IS SERIOUS BUSINESS hat when you read it.


Saga and Sex Criminals have comedy elements to them. Is that what you are referring to?

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## El Sombrero

> Question, when you guys say it feels like the book feels too important for itself, did the end essay have anything to do with it? I get that from the book too, but can't really put my finger on why.


No, the essay didn't have anything to do with it.  Kind of like you said, it's hard to put into words why I think the book feels so self-important.  I guess, to pinpoint a few specific flaws, the story so far seems concerned with pomp and circumstance over much actual plot development.  The scenes where we see the gods on display look kind of stupid, with the gods either acting really childish (the Rihanna cat one) or the reader just having to believe Gillen's word that the music is somehow hypnotic and orgasm-inducing (the concert in the first issue).  I love music and have been deeply touched by music but it feels like Gillen found a metaphor he liked (music as the work of the gods) and took it way too far.  I have a hard time believing people can really rate this 10/10 based on the execution presented thus far.




> Saga and Sex Criminals have comedy elements to them. Is that what you are referring to?


Comedy certainly plays a part, but there are comedy elements in The Wicked & The Divine too, so it's more than that.  I guess I feel we're being shown all these major scenes (the concert mentioned above, the past incarnations of gods in the first issue opening, how Luci is created in the second issue, etc) but it doesn't really feel like there's any weight or anything truly meaningful behind it.  The fangirl main character is obsessed with becoming godlike as her main mission in life, which in this title seems to amount to "you dress really trendy and have a lot of social media followers."  Gillen & McKelvie's Young Avengers was hyped as "style > substance" and I think they live up to that in a really disappointing way.  This is the definition of a book that gets overhyped on the Internet before release based on fashionable, cosplay-ready characters and a fresh, cutting-edge, marketable style, but really fails to deliver.

Saga and Sex Criminals spent significantly more time in their opening issues on character development, and crafted characters and relationships with genuine heart and believable emotion to complement their creative high concepts.  That's the difference.

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## Left Hook

Actually, I'm ok with the concert scene. I just associated it with those crazy fans that feint in the first row from those big name concerts. Sometimes in documentaries, they'll show security dragging them out. This is the concept of the book that I actually dig. Pop stars in real life do have powers over their crazy obsessed fans. Look at that "Leave Britney alone" guy for example. The concept is what got me to buy issue 1, but It's the execution that hasn't grabbed me.

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## Blacksun

> Yeah Gillen's style is way too self-conscious and try-hard to take seriously.


I don't think he is self-conscious. I think it's exactly the contrary, his writing is pretty acessible and speak very well to young readers like me.  He just do a complete work that involves even music.

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## Dr. Cheesesteak

So far, I think the execution and characterizations are fine in their own way.  I just don't like how every character is some combo of dull, unlikable, and/or self-serving.  And the whole hipster, fast lifestyle of the gods we've seen so far doesn't really redeem anything either.  

After #1, I thought I may like Luci.  After #2, she seems just another generic British hipster druggy.  

I am still curious as to the other gods, their personalities, what the point of the Recurrence is, etc.  But I'm not sure any of that will be explained any time soon and I'm not sure I'm willing to wait very long.  

I know it's only 2 issues in, but my budget is tight and my pull list is long w/ what seems to be a handful of new titles vying for spots every month.  I'll prob give this series another issue or 2, but it's a very short leash.

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## Time Like Lightning

Fantastic book. We're definitely still in the world-building stage right now, but Gillen's also managing to put in a good chunk of development for Laura, Luci, and (surprisingly) Cassandra. How far's Laura willing to go? How much can she trust Luci? What does Luci see in her? How much does Cassandra believe in any of this, and what does she hope to get out of it? 

Plus it's damn gorgeous. You go, McKelvie and Wilson.

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## LooneyKoala

Just read issue #2, and I absolutely love this series!! (which is good as I've already ordered #3)

I can't wait for the next issue, which is something that's becoming rare for me now. So it must be doing something right for me that other titles aren't doing!! :') I'm excited to see where they take it and get to know some of the other gods (like the now introduced Baphomet  :Wink:  ), but Luci is definitely my favourite character so far  :Smile: 

Just wish I had the #1 Luci variant... :'(

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## Kid A

> Question, when you guys say it feels like the book feels too important for itself, did the end essay have anything to do with it? I get that from the book too, but can't really put my finger on why.


For me, the first two issues have too many scenes that just feel like posturing the premise of the comic instead of moving the story forward.  Like even if you didn't read interviews and didn't know the premise, it's excessive.  And the problem here is that once you get past all that posturing, the plot itself is fairly thin and uninteresting. 





> I don't think he is self-conscious. I think it's exactly the contrary, his writing is pretty acessible and speak very well to young readers like me.  He just do a complete work that involves even music.


Uh, glad you like it, but I don't get how any of that is "exactly the contrary" to how self-conscious this book is. 

And for me it's the opposite, this feels like some 40 year old pop culture geek (that's NOT an insult, I'm probably the same just younger) trying too hard to be hipster.

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## InformationGeek

> Yep, "self-conscious" was the term I was thinking of but couldn't recall.
> 
> It's a shame because the art is really excellent and I like the overall idea, and even some of the characters seem interesting with solid dialogue, but the try-hard stuff as you said just goes wayyyyy overboard.
> *
> I think this has become a problem with a lot of popular writers and books right now, especially at Image.  KSD's Pretty Deadly would have been a lot better if the story was presented more clearly and didn't treat itself like the most high-art thing ever created.  Hickman's East of West would be better if it didn't treat itself like the most important story ever created.*


Yes.  A million times yes.  That's my problem.  A lot of these books feel so... pretentious that it really bothers me (I don't like the word pretentious since its overused so much to begin with).  They have a great ideas and interesting approaches, but that should never be the book alone or have it overshadow the rest of the material.  You need good storytelling, good characters, and real emotion as well for the books to be winners.


As for The Wicked + The Divine, it's just okay.  It's style over substance like people said.  It's got potential, but it's got to move into developing its characters and story better.  Cause now, it's rather corny and silly at points (that entire concert scene in the first issue was making me laugh, because of how overblown and ridiculous it was) with not much heart or soul in these characters.

Also, Amaterasu a pop star?  BAH!  That's not nearly as cool as being a wolf with the power to kick bad guy butt through painting.

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## InformationGeek

Okay, now I officially read the second issue of this comic and... it's pretty meh.  There's not much in the way of likeable characters in this story and not much really happens. I did an old fashion reaction shot to it instead of a regular review (find it here).

I think what my main problem with the book isn't that people have missed.  It's the main character of Laura.  She's a fangirl and that's all there is to it.  She loves and adores her gods' music to the point where she seems like she's going to climax to it.  However, what else is there to her?  We don't know much about her family life, her personality, or such.  The only thing we really know about her is how she feels about music and how she obsesses over it.  Nothing else matters to this girl and she doesn't give a crap about the rest of the world either.  She's almost unbalanced and disturbed in a way.  




> Why waste time planning for my future when I don’t want one? My future is no future. My future is this, or my future is nothing.


How can we like or want to follow a person like this?

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## King's_Gambit

> Okay, now I officially read the second issue of this comic and... it's pretty meh.  There's not much in the way of likeable characters in this story and not much really happens. I did an old fashion reaction shot to it instead of a regular review (find it here).
> 
> I think what my main problem with the book isn't that people have missed.  It's the main character of Laura.  She's a fangirl and that's all there is to it.  She loves and adores her gods' music to the point where she seems like she's going to climax to it.  However, what else is there to her?  We don't know much about her family life, her personality, or such.  The only thing we really know about her is how she feels about music and how she obsesses over it.  Nothing else matters to this girl and she doesn't give a crap about the rest of the world either.  She's almost unbalanced and disturbed in a way.  
> 
> 
> 
> How can we like or want to follow a person like this?


I think part of the problem you're having here is that Gillen, in structuring the series, has said that he was heavily influenced by Hickman's recent work.  So I'm not surprised to see you also bring up East of West for its "pretentiousness" or whatever in discussing the book.

Certainly, I think Gillen's being influenced by Hickman may also explain the slow pace and characterization.  A methodical pace and sparing characterization have, for better or for worse, often been hallmarks of Hickman's work.

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## InformationGeek

> I think part of the problem you're having here is that Gillen, in structuring the series, has said that he was heavily influenced by Hickman's recent work.  So I'm not surprised to see you also bring up East of West for its "pretentiousness" or whatever in discussing the book.
> 
> Certainly, I think Gillen's being influenced by Hickman may also explain the slow pace and characterization.  A methodical pace and sparing characterization have, for better or for worse, often been hallmarks of Hickman's work.


Actually, I don't really think East of West is pretentious (Pretty Deadly on the other hand), I was just agreeing with the notion that some of the works from Image do have the air of pretentiousness in them like someone else brought up.  I should have been clearer.

Well, even if it is going for that approach, the problem is that with Hickman's books, I don't actively hate the characters.  In East of West, I get why these characters may be unlikeable or bad people, especially after reading the first and second issue and reading between the lines.   Here though, the main character is just so solely unlikeable but without any reason for it.

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## Prince Disarming

My LCS got in more copies of issue two so I was able to catch-up on it. I really like this comic so far. It hasn't revealed a ton in these first couple of issues, but I am perfectly fine just going along for the ride because it is so damn enjoyable. I really don't get the accusations of pretentiousness, as I think it goes out of its way to be likable. The dialog is snappy and fun to read. The art has a very precise clean look to it that I think conveys a pop look to it quite well. The style of the art seems very indebted to the Hernandez brothers. The art is especially good at conveying facial expressions. There are a lot of subtle expressions that a lesser artist simply couldn't pull off.

I'm curious to see where this goes.

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## Enigmatic Undead

> *The Wicked + The Divine #3*
> 
> Story By: Kieron Gillen
> Art By: Jamie McKelvie & Matt Wilson
> Cover By: Jamie McKelvie & Matt Wilson
> Cover Price: $3.50
> Digital Price: $2.99
> Published: August 20, 2014
> 
> Laura has no choice. She has to go underground to find the goth-goth-gothity-goth of the Morrigan. Is this the most illadvised underworld-related decision since Orpheus decided to see how Eurydice was doing in the back seat? To find out, read the comic that people are literally calling "The one by GILLEN/MCKELVIE/WILSON with the very long title."







> *The Wicked + The Divine #4*
> 
> Story By: Kieron Gillen
> Art By: Jamie McKelvie & Matt Wilson
> Cover By: Jamie McKelvie & Matt Wilson
> Cover Price: $3.50
> Digital Price: $2.99
> Published: September 17, 2014
> 
> The mystery is solved. But does pop-god Lucifer like the answer? The answer is a word that rhymes with "Go", "Blow" and "Pro". If you think the answer rhymes with "Cow" I applaud you for your unconventional nature. It's good to experiment. We're experimenting with being Awesome for four issues in a row. JOIN US.

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## Dr. Cheesesteak

even the solicitations are too hipster and pretentious...  

maybe I'm just too cynical

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## eye of all

Yeesh -- lighten up, people. Pretty Deadly sets the standard for pretentiousness in the comics biz, and nothing will ever live up to it.

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## Dr. Cheesesteak

> Yeesh -- lighten up, people. Pretty Deadly sets the standard for pretentiousness in the comics biz, and nothing will ever live up to it.


at least Pretty Deadly didn't glorify hipsterdom!  

Btw, I'm one (of the few?) who didn't think Pretty Deadly was _that_ pretentious.  I was checking these forums after #1, did ppl think KSD was trying too hard to make it a difficult read or something?

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## InformationGeek

> Btw, I'm one (of the few?) who didn't think Pretty Deadly was _that_ pretentious.  I was checking these forums after #1, did ppl think KSD was trying too hard to make it a difficult read or something?


I personally didn't think she was trying too hard... at first.  However, as the plot went along, it became clear (or unclear) that the story was trying too hard to be complex and difficult.  It was getting worse than Drumhellar at points with following along.

I do remember people gushing about it and when I said it was getting too hard to follow or complicated, people said I just didn't get it.

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## Dr. Cheesesteak

> I personally didn't think she was trying too hard... at first.  However, as the plot went along, it became clear (or unclear) that the story was trying too hard to be complex and difficult.  It was getting worse than Drumhellar at points with following along.
> 
> I do remember people gushing about it and when I said it was getting too hard to follow or complicated, people said I just didn't get it.


I see.  And I meant to say I did _not_ check these forums.  

But anyway, I suppose I can understand that.  I really liked the complexity the first couple issues.  But by the end of the first arc, I had/have no desire to read once it picks back up again.

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## Kid A

> even the solicitations are too hipster and pretentious...  
> 
> maybe I'm just too cynical


The last three sentences just made me roll my eyes.

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## Harry Dresden

Hi everyone!!! I didn't want to open another thread to chat about this and since in this post we're all fans of The Wicked + The Divine I hope I can get here some help. Lately I've been purchasing some Image Comics in TPB from bookdepository. But with this series, the book is out-of-stock and it's weird because in other sites like Amazon, you can pre-order this. Anyone knows the reason about this? I'm interested in buying from bookdepository since I'm from Spain and this page is the only one where I don't have to pay shipping costs. Thanks!!!!

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## Tayne Japal

The first trade hasn't been released. Just check back with bookdepository in November when the trade is scheduled to be released.

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## El Sombrero

> I personally didn't think she was trying too hard... at first.  However, as the plot went along, it became clear (or unclear) that the story was trying too hard to be complex and difficult.  It was getting worse than Drumhellar at points with following along.
> 
> I do remember people gushing about it and when I said it was getting too hard to follow or complicated, people said I just didn't get it.


This is semi-unrelated to the main topic of the thread here, but I re-read all of Pretty Deadly a little while ago and I thought the story was much easier to digest in one sitting.  It's still a bit unnecessarily pretentious and the delivery of information could be clearer, but I had a much easier time understanding character relationships and what was actually going on.  It made me want to continue the series whereas before I had basically decided to be done with it.

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## Ilan Preskovsky

Yeah, I think I'm done with this. The art is incredible but I find the writing to be pretty insufferable, to be honest. I usually find complaints about "hipsterism" or "pretentiousness" to be way off the mark (I, for one, absolutely love Pretty Deadly) but they're sadly way too accurate in this case - especially the former. It's a pity. The art is, as has been established, pretty incredible and I think the premise has real potential but the execution, particularly in terms of characterization and dialogue, has largely been incredibly irritating.

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## wwise03

I don't know what all the complaining is about. I think this is a very good book. Sure, it's different. It seems to celebrate and mock pop culture. I haven't read a book that's done that, so I'm enjoying it. 

I also don't understand how this book can be called pretentious. I don't get the impression that it is trying to be more important than it actually is. It's just a story that is beginning to play out. 

Which leads me to another question...is a book being pretentious such a bad thing? What makes being pretentious bad? Can you not read one pretentious book out of how many books you're currently reading?

Also, I loved Pretty Deadly. Again, it was just a story told in a different way.

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## Ilan Preskovsky

> I don't know what all the complaining is about. I think this is a very good book. Sure, it's different. It seems to celebrate and mock pop culture. I haven't read a book that's done that, so I'm enjoying it. 
> 
> I also don't understand how this book can be called pretentious. I don't get the impression that it is trying to be more important than it actually is. It's just a story that is beginning to play out. 
> 
> Which leads me to another question...is a book being pretentious such a bad thing? What makes being pretentious bad? Can you not read one pretentious book out of how many books you're currently reading?
> 
> Also, I loved Pretty Deadly. Again, it was just a story told in a different way.


Actually that's fair enough. Pretentious was probably the wrong word. It's just that the characters and, I think, the writing itself, give off this too-cool-for-school vibe that just kinda grates on me. 

I think Gillen is clearly a talented writer but he might just be one whose overall style simply doesn't work for me.

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## Enigmatic Undead

I don't get that vibe from this series at all.

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## wwise03

> Actually that's fair enough. Pretentious was probably the wrong word. It's just that the characters and, I think, the writing itself, give off this too-cool-for-school vibe that just kinda grates on me. 
> 
> I think Gillen is clearly a talented writer but he might just be one whose overall style simply doesn't work for me.



I can see where you could get that vibe.  I haven't gotten it myself, but I can see where one could.  It might be that I see the vibe but just don't mind it (or possibly even enjoy it) in this case.  This is a unique book with a unique atmosphere and one that I will continue reading for the immediate future...in large part because of the art.

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## Celestin

I really like Woden's design. It's very different from what you would expect (Viking metal?), but at the same time it just fits his modernized version.

And after this issue I'm starting to strongly suspect that Luci isn't even half as hardcore she wants people to believe she is. She says she wants drugs, but marijuana is all that she ever tried. She talks about her sexual adventures, but she's asexual. And it would make sense since at her core she's suppose to be the Prince of Lies.

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## Time Like Lightning

> I really like Woden's design. It's very different from what you would expect (Viking metal?), but at the same time it just fits his modernized version.
> 
> And after this issue I'm starting to strongly suspect that Luci isn't even half as hardcore she wants people to believe she is. She says she wants drugs, but marijuana is all that she ever tried. She talks about her sexual adventures, but she's asexual. And it would make sense since at her core she's suppose to be the Prince of Lies.


Luci's only ever smoked weed? O.o I believe you, but I'm curious-- where'd we learn that? 

I'm starting to wonder if Luci _herself_ doesn't know whether she killed the judge. There's still a huge amount we've yet to learn about the Pantheon, including their powers... how difficult are they to master? How much of a learning curve do they take, and how far along that curve are each of the gods? Are some more inherently powerful than others? Are some reincarnations naturally harder to wield than others?

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## JaggedFel

I think its quite clear some are inherently more powerful. I mean Woden has basically no combat abilities whereas the rest of the bunch seem to have various more active powers. I would say Luci did it, I mean the First arc has Faust in the Title. Although it is funny that the two she seems closest to could have set her up easy and she does have a beef with Baal (or so she says) and Baal seems pretty tight with Woden. I mean Woden hands him a chain and let him put a massive mural up at his place.

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## Time Like Lightning

When this series ends we need to make a hookup chart. If Luci's actually being honest and if she's any indication of how much the other gods've been up to... my oh MY.

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## Ragdoll

Wow, I love how angry this comic has made some people. Based Kieron, riling everyone up.

Anyways, issue #7 dropped today, and this thread looks like it needs a kick in the pants seat to get discussion going again. The issue was fantastic!
"Imagine angry Darwinist/Creationist sex... Hmmm." Man, I laughed so hard.
Another amazing line was "Don't say it's racist. I'm working on an aesthetic. It's complicated." 
Also, "We all float down here" was a great IT reference.
I'm ready for some based Dionysus dance party action in #8.

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## Viteh

Looooved this issue, a lot more than issue #6 which I liked. 

So I take it Woden has no "tongue" powers (the ones that let you perform)? He does seem to have the blow stuff up with a finger snap power, so he wasn't referring to those powers.

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## Will

> Actually that's fair enough. Pretentious was probably the wrong word. It's just that the characters and, I think, the writing itself, give off this too-cool-for-school vibe that just kinda grates on me. 
> 
> I think Gillen is clearly a talented writer but he might just be one whose overall style simply doesn't work for me.


I feel that Gillen writes in the same vain of people like Vaughn or Ennis, just representing a different subculture. To enjoy both the aforementioned writers, readers need to have experienced the culture and lifestyle of them. For example, I get a real kick out of Ennis' 'taking the piss' dialogue because it's got a lot to do with life experience. I've been involved in music scenes a lot in my life so I get something special out of this book. Though I can totally see how this can be a deferent for Gillen's writing (I'm not well versed in Tumblr/Instagram) so those references don't penetrate as strong. 

That being said, I think there's a lot of well meditated subtext embedded in this book and it continues to be a top read on my pull list.

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## Ragdoll

> I think Gillen is clearly a talented writer but he might just be one whose overall style simply doesn't work for me.


Yeah, I am 50/50 with his works. I can groove to this, but Phonogram got repetitive and boring to me fairly quick.
Sometimes his writing feels cool, but sometimes it feels like Portlandia should be spoofing him.

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## Time Like Lightning

Wow, today's was GREAT. 

#7, the status quo is in effect and the team is having a BALL with it. From Minerva/Baal sibling-esque moments to members of the Pantheon looking out for Laura with (hopefully) no ulterior motive to the introduction of more human characters, this was a really packed issue in all the best ways. 

Not to mention the expansion of the universe's mythology. We know *spoilers:*
 Woden's on a lower power level than other members of the Pantheon, at least through some lenses. We know his ability to empower others might not be unique, if Luci really gave powers to Laura... although this makes me wonder if Woden might've given them to her instead? Or another god, entirely? After all, if one god can pass on powers, other gods might be able to, as well. Then there's this Prometheus Gambit. The panel when Cassandra mentions it is bigger than the others on the page, so y'know it's gonna come into play. Whether because it's real, or just because people believe it _might_ be. 
*end of spoilers*

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## xMatt

Guys. 

_Hamaretsu Sandwiches._

Seriously.

This book is genius.

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## LooneyKoala

This just gets better and better with each issue. It's right up there with Alex + Ada as my favourite title being published right now (that has nothing to do with Spider-Man)!!  :Big Grin:  I just love everything about it!!

Liked the MCR line of the karaoke  :Wink:  Feels even better to me given that MCR are my favourite band, I saw Gerard Way two days ago and when I saw him back in November Kieron Gillen and Jamie McKelvie (and Becky Cloonan!!) were also there!!!!!!!!!   So it's these little things that make me connect to the comic so much more than I would have otherwise. Plus there's parallels between how fans see the gods and how I myself look up to Gerard Way, making it even more relatable.

(Also, I'm still hyped up about my email being printed in the back of issue #6 hehe, which incidentally was about the Gerard Way gig in November  :Big Grin:  )

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## Ragdoll

> Liked the MCR line of the karaoke


That made me smile, too.
I remember being so happy when I learned that Gerard Way wrote comics. The one he made for the Fabulous Killjoys was fly as fuck. And his one Edge Of Spiderverse issue was killer. I hope Marvel does more with him.

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## Ragdoll

New issue today, it was decent. The party was fun, the art was unique, and meeting Dionysus left me with a lot to take in. Also, that ending was great.
*spoilers:*
bow chicka wow wow, she gon' get some
*end of spoilers*

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## InformationGeek

I'm pretty indifferent to this issue as a whole.  The art was interesting, but hard to follow at points.  Other than that... there's really not much to chew on here.  Some characterization, but it doesn't feel like the plot went anywhere and feels like barely anything was accomplished by the end.  I wonder if this plot will be going anywhere at some point.

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## JaggedFel

> New issue today, it was decent. The party was fun, the art was unique, and meeting Dionysus left me with a lot to take in. Also, that ending was great.
> *spoilers:*
> bow chicka wow wow, she gon' get some
> *end of spoilers*


Lol Funny how the Party went.

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## Celestin

Well played. I expected Cassandra's role to be that of a permanent sceptic in the series and didn't expect this kind of twist for her.

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## InformationGeek

Well a pretty decent twist, I'm a bit disappointed.  I just don't find half of these gods all that interesting and I fear she'll become just like them.  I kind of like the fact that she was far more normal and relatable, and also least the frustrating character in this series.

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## JaggedFel

Thought we get to see what happened at Casa Baal this issue. The twist was surprising. Also interesting Baphomet not he Couldn't Kill Baal and Wouldn't Kill Minvera. Minerva I assume its because she is a kid but Baal guess that means Baal is more powerful then Baphomet.

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## Ragdoll

Another great issue. Good to get a lot of things clarified. I don;t mind comics being intentionally mysterious, but it always feels nice to finally hit an issue like this that brings clarity to a lot of long standing questions.

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## Ryochan

Kind of surprised there has not been a review posted of #11. No spoilers, but I need a hug.

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## Potanical Pardon

*Hug*

An aside...can't find the Fiona Staples variant anywhere!

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## Ragdoll

I'm dropping this series. Gillen is just too hip for me to get into these days, I guess.

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## Celestin

Once again I was surprised. Not so much about the revelation of Laura, but what happened next.

*spoilers:*
Removing your main character from the comic is rather ballsy move if there is no twist to it.

As for Ananke's actions, they are unexpected. Is she prolonging her life by killing other gods? But wouldn't they be not aware of it if that was the case? And how much life would she gain since it's suggested that it's two years at best? Unless there is a lot more gods reborn than just twelve. Maybe all of them and she just allows limited number of them to be revealed to the world, killing the rest.

Or the gods aren't reborn, but she chooses people to host them and she's not limited by anything, but her own rules to bring them back periodically and only twelve of them.
*end of spoilers*

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## JaggedFel

Ah Well Laura's Goddess whole story is about moving between the Heavens and the Underworld.....and Inana also has an Underworld Myth so I wouldnt bet on death.

Still I assume Baal is going to be pretty p****** in the Next Issue.

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## InformationGeek

Big surprises this issue... kind of wish I actually liked Laura in anyway.  Also, not fan of her being another god for two reasons:
Knew that was coming for a long time.  I mean, why bother having a normal person, that we are suppose to relate to somehow, be around extraordinary people when they can be a god as well!  Stupid idea since they are all the damn same and we lose that human connection.  It was stupid last issue when Gillen did it and its still stupid now.  Ugh.

But for those of you who want positively, look at a review from one of my friends and coworkers on the subject of this issue.

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## Ryochan

> Once again I was surprised. Not so much about the revelation of Laura, but what happened next.
> 
> *spoilers:*
> Removing your main character from the comic is rather ballsy move if there is no twist to it.
> 
> As for Ananke's actions, they are unexpected. Is she prolonging her life by killing other gods? But wouldn't they be not aware of it if that was the case? And how much life would she gain since it's suggested that it's two years at best? Unless there is a lot more gods reborn than just twelve. Maybe all of them and she just allows limited number of them to be revealed to the world, killing the rest.
> 
> Or the gods aren't reborn, but she chooses people to host them and she's not limited by anything, but her own rules to bring them back periodically and only twelve of them.
> *end of spoilers*


To respond to a couple of things... I spent a rather ridiculous amount of time yesterday re-reading past issues.
*spoilers:*

The very first thing we see in the series is four gods killing each other, presumably at the end of the 2 year cycle. 

Later, when Ananke is telling the story of how she became the keeper of the gods, she is floating surrounded by twelve other gods. Making 13 total. Nowhere in the interview does SHE say that it is two years (that's only when she is informing them they are of the pantheon). She says the cycle is 90 years. 

Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that every god gets not 2 years but 10 (consistent with average human lifespan historically if you also assume they are usually 25 or so when they are 'found'). Some gods die for other reasons, or in a way that Ananke can't 'harvest'. So, to make sure she will be around for the next 90 year cycle, she takes ALL of the 13th god's years and simultaneously sets at least one of the other gods to 'harvesting' other gods (OHAI, Baphomet!) and ultimately she harvests /that/ god, acquiring all of their years in addition to however many they managed to get for themselves. 

But then it becomes an issue... is anything she's saying actually true? She says she's doing it so she can care for the gods, but it seems like what she's mostly doing is selecting them and then preparing them for death. What is this darkness that she says they are fighting? Because it's hard to get a lot more dark than snuffing out the light of inspiration as embodied by the gods to extend your own life. 

One of the things I found particularly interesting was how she approached Laura saying 'aren't you glad you escaped?' To which Laura replies that she still wants it. Only THEN does she become selected. Perhaps the thirteenth god is chosen, not born (which makes some sense if you equate the thirteenth god with Ananke herself). This would also be supported by the fact that she says "I've seen so many girls, just like you. So full of hope and excitement, only to be left with nothing but the taste of ashes in your mouth." (Putting aside the obvious irony of 'ashes in your mouth'.) Still, I dunno. It's going to be excruciating waiting a year for resolution, if the next twelve issues are each the history of a single one of the gods. 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## HsssH

Catched up with this series after hearing lots of positive buzz and some claiming it to be Gillen's Watchmen. So with two arcs concluded... I'm rather disappointed. I know that its rather ironic since this creative team started building name for itself as "Style > substance", but there just isn't enough substance. 11 issues in and it feels that someone like Ellis would have achieved same results in 3 issues. 

Couple of annoyances with characters:

Cassandra was really aggressive sceptic in first issue... then becomes best friends with Laura? Its strange since Laura is opposite of her yet they never clash or have an argument, moreover Cassandra seams to have become a believer after first issue too which could be explained due to what happened with Lucifer... but I'd expect someone making some comment about it? Anyway, then comes her interview with Ananke and she is hardcore again calling bullshit that bullshit this. Only thing thats kinda consistent with her seams to be that she wants to believe but can't and calls lots of things bullshit, everything else is very fluid.

Idea of someone being pop star for 2 years and then having to die seams interesting because we could see how each of them would deal with that... but we don't really get that? Sure Baphomet is ready to kill to extend his lifespan and others? Can't say for sure, can we? Problem is that Laura hasn't been developed past "I want to be special, I want it really really bad" characterization that she got in first issue either. So we got a bit clearer picture on Cassandra (but as I previously mentioned I also found it wonky) but at the same time it feels that her "character arc" is over. As a result we got bunch of characters that were barely developed in 11 issues. 

It seams that we got more focus on who slept with who than on actually who they are. Which in a sense could work since our media also tends to focus on who newest Pop star is dating or how she is dressed, but this series is not about media reaction (which surprisingly we got very little off in this series) but about Laura's first hand experience with them, I'd expect something more from that.

----------


## Anduinel

In which Gillen dismantles any fear-mongering about Wic + Div's sales.

----------


## ishikabe

> Catched up with this series after hearing lots of positive buzz and some claiming it to be Gillen's Watchmen. So with two arcs concluded... I'm rather disappointed. I know that its rather ironic since this creative team started building name for itself as "Style > substance", but there just isn't enough substance. 11 issues in and it feels that someone like Ellis would have achieved same results in 3 issues.


I agree. I recently dropped this from my pull list. What drew me in(hah) was the artwork. But then part of what pushed me away was the style. Am I looking at a punkish/gay clothing style that everyone in W+D follow? When I saw the pictures of the new Suicide Squad, those costumes reminded me of this comic.

I understand that pretty much every comic is showing a new God, but geez the story feels lacking to me. I can't really put my finger on why. Maybe that's why - there isn't much to go on.

----------


## xMatt

*TARA: I couldn't be everything you needed me to be. And you saw what happened any time I tried to be anything else.*

This was an absolutely heartbreaking comic. The twitter feed parts of the comic were so difficult to read because of how realistic they were. Considering this is how creators/artists/celebrities are treated, it is honestly a wonder that more of them don't commit suicide.

----------


## Ragdoll

> Catched up with this series after hearing lots of positive buzz and some claiming it to be Gillen's Watchmen. So with two arcs concluded... I'm rather disappointed. I know that its rather ironic since this creative team started building name for itself as "Style > substance", but there just isn't enough substance. 11 issues in and it feels that someone like Ellis would have achieved same results in 3 issues. 
> 
> Couple of annoyances with characters:
> 
> Cassandra was really aggressive sceptic in first issue... then becomes best friends with Laura? Its strange since Laura is opposite of her yet they never clash or have an argument, moreover Cassandra seams to have become a believer after first issue too which could be explained due to what happened with Lucifer... but I'd expect someone making some comment about it? Anyway, then comes her interview with Ananke and she is hardcore again calling bullshit that bullshit this. Only thing thats kinda consistent with her seams to be that she wants to believe but can't and calls lots of things bullshit, everything else is very fluid.
> 
> Idea of someone being pop star for 2 years and then having to die seams interesting because we could see how each of them would deal with that... but we don't really get that? Sure Baphomet is ready to kill to extend his lifespan and others? Can't say for sure, can we? Problem is that Laura hasn't been developed past "I want to be special, I want it really really bad" characterization that she got in first issue either. So we got a bit clearer picture on Cassandra (but as I previously mentioned I also found it wonky) but at the same time it feels that her "character arc" is over. As a result we got bunch of characters that were barely developed in 11 issues. 
> 
> It seams that we got more focus on who slept with who than on actually who they are. Which in a sense could work since our media also tends to focus on who newest Pop star is dating or how she is dressed, but this series is not about media reaction (which surprisingly we got very little off in this series) but about Laura's first hand experience with them, I'd expect something more from that.


Thank goodness someone else dislikes this series, I was starting to think I was crazy for being the only one uninterested in the series. I read 10 issues and finally just couldn't handle it. But it has such a "cool" presentation that I kept telling myself I just wasn't getting it and that the book MUST be good and is going over my head. I think Gillen is too cool for me in general. Like, I would never want to meet him for fear he would shag my girlfriend and expose me for the lesser man I really am. I'll stick to my comics about losers, mutants, and burnouts, thank you. Hipster comics are more than I can handle.

----------


## InformationGeek

I'm pretty far behind on the series myself, but someday, I'll catch up... like someday I'll catch up on Deadly Class.

----------


## Jinjonator

Damn. #13 was definitely, imo, one of the best issues of the series so far. That shit had me emotional as hell.

----------


## xMatt

Yeah, there are parts of this series that resonate so strongly and that feel so genuine. It's quite clear this is coming from a very personal place for some of the creators and others involved, that all the emotional beats hit that little bit harder.

----------


## JaggedFel

Well Cass needs Laura for access or lol needed her.

As for others I think Wotan laid it out he thinks the Gambit is bs so he is not doing it no reason to believe he wouldnt kill lol.

As for Laura brush up on ur mythology, she is Persephone who is whole shtick is basically she moves between Olympus and the Underworld with the seasons. Winter and Fall means she is the Underworld and Spring and Summer means she is in the Underworld.

----------


## Lucena Soares

I cried in issue #13 (still am, since i just finished it). In #11 i was in pure shock but in this one i had a vision of what wold happen the second i read the twitter page, it was so painfull to turn the pages and then the end and the letter and the twitter... gods i'm starting to cry again, like, for real. #FuckingAnanke!

----------


## xMatt

Yeah, this was handled with such tact and depth. And you're right about Ananke ... she's more and more starting to look like the bad guy. I'm starting to wonder if the Gods really do die after two years, or if she just kills them all.

----------

