# Comics  > Batman >  Kate Kane: Batwoman Appreciation 2018

## beetlebum

*Welcome*



(I promise Kate isn't shooting at you. Just the bad guys.)

Here be, the brand new, shiny thread devoted to Kate Kane.

*Why celebrate Kate Kane?:*  Because she's one of the most prominent LGBTQ members of the DC Universe, and is one of the few things DC did right, post-reboot. Because rather than turn Kate into another vehicle for mass titillation, DC managed to create a compelling character whose struggles were all too real and are something we can all relate to. While some of us might not be able to relate to being kicked out of West Point for our sexual orientation, we can relate to the sense of injustice Kate felt afterwards, and we can also relate to the desire to be true to ourselves, even if we're punished for it in the process.

And Kate's compelling narratives were delivered with fantastic prose that was penned by Greg Rucka, and absolutely sensational art that was gifted to us by J.H Williams III (and later, W. Haden Blackman). While Batwoman's creative team has been shuffled a few times, and is currently penned by Marc Andreyko, what Kate represents still stands, and this groundbreaking character deserves to be lauded. So let's do that here.
Information about Kate.

Sites devoted to her:

http://hellyeahkatekane.tumblr.com/

*Credit for the wallpaper goes to kestinstewart. The gif is mine.*

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## Enigmatic Undead



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## Enigmatic Undead

Trevor McCarthy art work from Batwoman Annual #1

Batwoman Annual 1 page 39.jpg

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## beetlebum

Kate Kane, Helena Bertinelli, Selina Kyle and others 

by snackage and runmonsterun 

And ...



by msciuto

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## Enigmatic Undead

From Batwoman #17

Batwoman 17 page 10.jpg

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## Flash Gordon

batwoman0.jpg

God I love Kate.

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## Batman Begins 2005

Really like the character. Highlight of it, Batwoman: Elegy. Great book.

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## Vanguard-01

Batwoman's a great character.

I really haven't read an appearance by her that I didn't like, but I'd say her teamup with Wonder Woman is probably my favorite story thus far. Two awesome DC ladies from such radically different worlds? What's not to love?

So glad she's finally free of her DEO slavery. That was really hurting my enjoyment of the book.

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## oasis1313

Does this woman ever go to the tanning booths?

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## exile001

I was originally opposed to her re-introduction in 52. I just felt there were too many Gotham based characters, especially at that time, and making yet another Bat seemed unnecessary to me. 

I do not like the original Batwoman or the era she was most prominent in, so was entirely uninterested in a re-hash. 

Of course, I had underestimated Greg Rucka.

I enjoyed her in 52, but Elegy was fantastic and really pushed the character for me. I loved the fact that she was almost entirely divorced from the rest of the Bat-Family and had an entirely different reason for, and method of, doing what she does.

Her New 52 title has been great and, although I was very sorry to see the original team leave, I've been a fan of Marc Andreyko since the start of Manhunter.

I also think Kate's relationship with Maggie is one of the most believable I have seen in a mainstream comic in years.

On a final note, she has one of the most badass new costume designs of the last decade.

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## Sprite

Kate Kane is my favorite Bat-character, easily.

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## michael-schofield

I've been a fan of Kate since she was introduced back in 52- her relationship with Renee was beautiful, with just enough tragedy to avoid becoming a cliche (Their scene on the rooftop in The Crime Bible miniseries still gives me chills).

I really worry about her being integrated too much into the regular Bat-Universe though- there are already so many characters in there that I don't want her to just become another face in the crowd!

Batwoman has definitely been my favourite book of the New 52 though. I love Kate so much, I got a Batwoman tattoo!

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## Enigmatic Undead



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## Enigmatic Undead



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## beetlebum

> Does this woman ever go to the tanning booths?


But the pale look is why we like her! 

The lack-of-vitamin-E-efficiency just gives her a vampiric look, and that's perfect considering that fear is a necessary component, in her war against crime.

I'm sure most people would piss their pants if they saw a giant, pale, redheaded Bat come after them. Hence why the alabaster skin tone works for her.

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## beetlebum

Panel from Batwoman Annual #1 (2014)



(Source)

I haven't read it, as I'm behind on all things Kate and need to get caught-up, but nevertheless, I'm glad the art for her book still manages to be pleasing, and fantastic.

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## beetlebum

I'm not sure how I feel about the pin-up series in general, but this I like.

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## MrMcMuffin

Kate as a Vampire, huh. Well, she certainly looked the part already! I'm actually really excited for this, especially the part about Nocturna being her 'former lover', though it does make me worry for poor Maggie...

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## Bethrazuul

"Under the spell of Nocturna" has been hinted at in future solicitations, and I'm excited to see where it leads our favorite heroine. The main reason I'm looking forward to this arc, is Kate has to me been at her most interesting when dealing with the supernatural and occult, as it gives her a different bat-flavor which differentiates the book from the myriad of other bat titles currently on the selves. Having said that, I am hesitant with Nocturna potentially shoving aside the long-standing relationship BW has had with Maggie and hope this is more of a fling or some such, that tests her current relationship. Because I really enjoy her "normal" life. In fact I think her relationship with Maggie is the books strongest point since Andreyko took over.

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## Clockwork_Fish

I thought Nocturna was a lover from the past-past, not the future-past (stupid Future's End, stupid time travel)?  I'm pretty sure Andreyko hinted that one of Kate's old lovers would make an appearance in an interview a while back, but I may be mistaken.

Personally, I hope they never pull the trigger on the whole vampire thing, since it would probably involve shelving the supporting cast and driving a stake (haha) through her relationship with Maggie.  As many have pointed out, one of the things that makes Batwoman stand out from the rest of the Family is the focus on Kate's family & personal life.

Plus, let's just address the elephant in the room, some people just don't like vampires.

Having said that, I liked issue 31.  I'd had issues with how Kate had been portrayed in this arc, but liked seeing Kate show responsibility for herself and go out of her way to help Maggie; okay, it's not as dramatic as injecting yourself with fear toxin, but by the same token a lot less creepy.

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## MrMcMuffin

The past lover your referring to is Josie, her girlfriend from west point who's appearing next issue. (Her names a retcon, it used to be sophie)

Andreyko has said there's going to be 'seismic' changes, and vampirism seems to be what they're hinting at. On one hand I'd really like to see where he would go with it, Nocturna loving and all. But on the other hand, that would mean we'd lose Maggie, who we've all come to love over this series. 

Perhaps it could just be a temporary thing. Are they using Future's End to hint at future (past chronological) stories or is it something that you think will be undone at the end? If it's undone, the whole vampire thing could just be a cool little 'what if?' scenario.

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## michael-schofield

This looks gorgeous, and looks like something I'd frame and hang on the wall.




> 


This, on the other hand, looks weird, and fills me with dread. 




> 


Meanwhile, is anyone else upset that Batwoman isn't being collected in Hardcover format anymore, just paperback?

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## MrMcMuffin

> This looks gorgeous, and looks like something I'd frame and hang on the wall.
> 
> 
> 
> This, on the other hand, looks weird, and fills me with dread. 
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, is anyone else upset that Batwoman isn't being collected in Hardcover format anymore, just paperback?


It sucks for people who trade wait it, especially those with OCD. Those (4?) hardcovers together, then suddenly it switches to smaller books! Luckily I switched to single issues after the first HC. Are they only doing paperback now because of low sales?

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## Enigmatic Undead



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## cwatz

Just borrowed a buddies collection and power read through the whole damn thing.  I gotta say, im a big Batwoman fan.

The series has been a bit inconsistent, but the one guarantee ive noticed is things are never dull when Kate Kane is on the page (Her costume design is also the best in the business).  If anything, its biggest falters are when it gets too far off path with the rest of the cast and slows things down.

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## Enigmatic Undead



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## The Conductor

I've always been a bit confused about the exact relationship between Kate Kane, Kathy Kane and the Wayne family. I mean, am I right in thinking that they are all somewhat related? And am I also right in thinking that "Bette Kane" is a New 52 version of the original, golden age Batgirl?

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## MrMcMuffin

> I've always been a bit confused about the exact relationship between Kate Kane, Kathy Kane and the Wayne family. I mean, am I right in thinking that they are all somewhat related? And am I also right in thinking that "Bette Kane" is a New 52 version of the original, golden age Batgirl?


Kate and Bruce are (possibly first) cousins (they share an uncle, who is Martha Wayne's brother and who has a painting of Kate and Beth in his office.) While I don't think it's been explored in depth I think Kathy is an aunt by marriage, and yes, Bette Kane is the new 52 version, but was never Batgirl in this continuity.

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## beetlebum

> Kate and Bruce are (possibly first) cousins (they share an uncle, who is Martha Wayne's brother and who has a painting of Kate and Beth in his office.) While I don't think it's been explored in depth I think Kathy is an aunt by marriage, and yes, Bette Kane is the new 52 version, but was never Batgirl in this continuity.





> This wake scene is the most interesting of the book because it removes all doubt that Bruce and Kate are indeed cousins and likely first cousins.


From here.

I tend to think of them as being first cousins, even if it's not been explicitly stated in canon. It would just make sense for them to so (albeit they're first cousins who apparently, steal motorcycles from each other, but that's only so she could stop a jewel heist!)




> Just borrowed a buddies collection and power read through the whole damn thing.  I gotta say, im a big Batwoman fan.
> 
> The series has been a bit inconsistent, but the one guarantee ive noticed is things are never dull when Kate Kane is on the page (Her costume design is also the best in the business).  If anything, its biggest falters are when it gets too far off path with the rest of the cast and slows things down.


Glad to hear it.

And yeah, the series has been inconsistent at times. Though the one thing that never falters is the art, and I'm grateful for all the beautiful panels we get from that.

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## BatwomanFanHere

Became my favorite character due to Greg Rucka, JH Williams and Blackman. Really independent and capable woman but do not like her being related to Bruce Wayne and be part of the bat family. Also, have being feeling mixed about Marc andreyko's run.

Other than that, really loved her.

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## Bat007007

> Became my favorite character due to Greg Rucka, JH Williams and Blackman. Really independent and capable woman but do not like her being related to Bruce Wayne and be part of the bat family. Also, have being feeling mixed about Marc andreyko's run.
> 
> Other than that, really loved her.


Good to read and welcome.

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## Sprite

Batwoman has gotten weird since I last read it. Can't imagine things getting any better, but I do like Marc Andreyko's writing.

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## ABH



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## ABH

I think Kate definitely received one of the cooler steam-punk variants...

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## Enigmatic Undead



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## Bat007007

> 


They would make such a great duo in a team up book.

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## electr1cgoblin

Enjoying the character and book a great deal.  This was my first exposure to her, and I have not been disappointed.  She's a very complex person, and that leaves room for all kinds of interesting plots and conflicts.  She's got a ton of family conflict; sister, cousin, father, mother, etc., her personal life, her struggles with the DEO, not to mention the tenuous connection to Batman.  

I wonder what everyone thinks could be the fate of the character post-"Batwoman".  Not to be a doomsayer, but if the book's sales aren't wonderful...I think she works well in a two person team-up, but I can't honestly see her part of the JLA or Outsiders, or...anybody, really, unless they craft a whole new book where she 'might' fit in.  I'd hate to lose her, but I wouldn't want her watered down for the sake of a team book, either.

Maybe Birds of Prey?

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## electr1cgoblin

> But the pale look is why we like her! 
> 
> The lack-of-vitamin-E-efficiency just gives her a vampiric look, and that's perfect considering that fear is a necessary component, in her war against crime.
> 
> I'm sure most people would piss their pants if they saw a giant, pale, redheaded Bat come after them. Hence why the alabaster skin tone works for her.


Agree with all of that, plus, let's face it...90 percent of female comic characters look the same...impossible build, blond or brunette hair, standard Caucasian skin tone.  Kate's different appearance is one of many things that set her off from the rest and I welcome it.

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## Bat007007

> Does this woman ever go to the tanning booths?


Nope. And and you know what ? Thats good because in a way she is more scary than Batman because of that. And it add a mystical element to Batwoman. Her skin tone matches the tone of her book.

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## cwatz

> Enjoying the character and book a great deal.  This was my first exposure to her, and I have not been disappointed.  She's a very complex person, and that leaves room for all kinds of interesting plots and conflicts.  She's got a ton of family conflict; sister, cousin, father, mother, etc., her personal life, her struggles with the DEO, not to mention the tenuous connection to Batman.  
> 
> I wonder what everyone thinks could be the fate of the character post-"Batwoman".  Not to be a doomsayer, but if the book's sales aren't wonderful...I think she works well in a two person team-up, but I can't honestly see her part of the JLA or Outsiders, or...anybody, really, unless they craft a whole new book where she 'might' fit in.  I'd hate to lose her, but I wouldn't want her watered down for the sake of a team book, either.
> 
> Maybe Birds of Prey?


It is kind of hard to picture, but a ton of great things have been born from low expectations.  In my opinion she could realistically fit in several places.  As it stands half the book is already filled with side characters, and its usually the stuff that drags the product down.  If they can keep superhero Kate and personal life Kate material intact, the stuff that makes the comic great to read, then just about anything else can fill up the rest of the pages.

I also gotta say... she has to be the most visual appealing superhero in comics.  I always find myself pausing in awe at the images when reading.

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## Enigmatic Undead

Kate meeting Batman for the first time in Secret Origins #3

Secret Origins 3 page 18.jpg

and Kate donning the costume for the first time.

Secret Origins 3 page 21.jpg

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## nepenthes

They are almost line-for-line repeats of the the original scenes. Glad I skipped the issue and that Secret Origins is being so upfront about what it is; the most basic versions of the origin told as straightforwardly as possible.

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## gwhh

http://gwhh.tumblr.com/post/68640914...ume-one-c-2006

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## MrStatham

> They are almost line-for-line repeats of the the original scenes. Glad I skipped the issue and that Secret Origins is being so upfront about what it is; the most basic versions of the origin told as straightforwardly as possible.


They do basically just look like some straightforward stories to establish who these characters are... Which, given some things are still up in the air thanks to the New52 (and Batwoman as a book has not been exempt from this, given what happened with Bette and the Titans references), it's not a bad idea. But for the people who have Elegy in trade, it's not really gonna be necessary, nor will it look as good as JHW3 channeling Mazzucchelli.

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## Enigmatic Undead

>

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## Enigmatic Undead



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## scary harpy

> 


Breathtaking.

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## Kapparition

I am just afraid with Batwoman sales falling, the title will be cancelled before the end of the year. However they did let Batwing continue on way past cancellation level so maybe there is hope.

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## Bat007007

> I am just afraid with Batwoman sales falling, the title will be cancelled before the end of the year. However they did let Batwing continue on way past cancellation level so maybe there is hope.


If DC cancels her book I propose this : Make her join Batman Inc. and launch another Batman Inc. book but this time focused on all Bat Inc. characters such as her and Batwing. And relaunch her book at a later date of course.

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## Kurisu

> I am just afraid with Batwoman sales falling, the title will be cancelled before the end of the year. However they did let Batwing continue on way past cancellation level so maybe there is hope.


She's not going anywhere lol. Relax. 

Based on August's solits, Marc and DC are planning something big for her in Q4. At the very least, she's got until next summer, probably longer. They don't want (or need!) the controversy.

(That rooftop picture is gorgeous btw.)

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## OlOneEyed

What's the consensus on Andreyko's run on the title? Kate's tales in Detective Comics under Rucka/Williams stand as some of my favorite comic issues ever and I read a decent amount of the current volume of Batwoman before I stopped reading comics all together for a bit (around #14 I think?). I know things didn't end amicably between Blackman/Williams and D.C. and the company's decision making pisses me off from what I read it involved, but should I get back into it and support the title? Is Andreyko's writing worth it? Thanks in advance for any help.

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## Red_11

> What's the consensus on Andreyko's run on the title?... Is Andreyko's writing worth it? Thanks in advance for any help.


Eh, it's OK.  

I loved Rucka's run, and enjoyed Blackman/Williams.  Andreyko's has been good enough to keep me reading (the annual was terrible, but I can't really blame Andreyko for that.)  I think Andreyko's work is strong when he's focused on Kate's personal life and relationships, but less so when he switches over to the superheroics.  With Rucka and Blackman/Williams there was a clear theme and a sharp focus to the book and that is what I think has been lost with the new creative team, the book now, while not bad, just feels a bit bland to me.  I'm still reading it, but honestly I could drop it and not really miss it all that much at this point.

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## Noviere

I've recently started reading Batwoman(I'm only on issue 11), but I have a question regarding reading order... From what I've gathered, the Annual is a conclusion to arc that was left open in issue 24. Does this mean I should read it before 25? Or does the Annual occur chronologically in tandem with when it was published? Hopefully that made sense... :P

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## nepenthes

> I've recently started reading Batwoman(I'm only on issue 11), but I have a question regarding reading order... From what I've gathered, the Annual is a conclusion to arc that was left open in issue 24. Does this mean I should read it before 25? Or does the Annual occur chronologically in tandem with when it was published? Hopefully that made sense... :P


Read it after 24. And go in with low expectations  :Frown:

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## Kurisu

> What's the consensus on Andreyko's run on the title? Kate's tales in Detective Comics under Rucka/Williams stand as some of my favorite comic issues ever and I read a decent amount of the current volume of Batwoman before I stopped reading comics all together for a bit (around #14 I think?). I know things didn't end amicably between Blackman/Williams and D.C. and the company's decision making pisses me off from what I read it involved, but should I get back into it and support the title? Is Andreyko's writing worth it? Thanks in advance for any help.


Hi, residential Andreyko-fan boy, Williams-as-a-writer-hater here! You should absolutely support the title, it's Kate! I dropped off around the same time you did- maybe sooner- so I don't think I can fairly compare the two, and truthfully, it hasn't reached the heights of Rucka's flawless run, but I'm personally enjoying it a lot more than the W/B run. Marc's good with stories, but where he really shines is the characters. Everyone, from Kate to Maggie to Maggie's daughter to Kate's therapist, just feels so alive and they all have a distinctive voice. That alone carries the first arc with the Wolf Spider, which is a little dry when coming from all the supernatural stuff Kate's dealt with in the past. I think the current arc with Nocturna is gonna be something great though!

Give it a shot, especially if you're a Kate fan. Don't punish a great character and a great writer because of DC's d-bag tendencies. 




> I've recently started reading Batwoman(I'm only on issue 11), but I have a question regarding reading order... From what I've gathered, the Annual is a conclusion to arc that was left open in issue 24. Does this mean I should read it before 25? Or does the Annual occur chronologically in tandem with when it was published? Hopefully that made sense... :P


I don't think it matters? 25 is Zero Year and happens before the first issue anyway. Go ahead and read the annual first if you want.

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## Vworp Vworp

> What's the consensus on Andreyko's run on the title? Kate's tales in Detective Comics under Rucka/Williams stand as some of my favorite comic issues ever and I read a decent amount of the current volume of Batwoman before I stopped reading comics all together for a bit (around #14 I think?). I know things didn't end amicably between Blackman/Williams and D.C. and the company's decision making pisses me off from what I read it involved, but should I get back into it and support the title? Is Andreyko's writing worth it? Thanks in advance for any help.


As with anything, you don't really know until you try.  Some people here will (and have) say it's worth picking up.  Others will say it's not.

I'm with the others.  If I'm being completely honest,  I'm a pretty fickle person, so when the B&W controversy hit, I was all ready to drop Batwoman on priniciple.  However, I do love Kate as a character and a genuinely good writer creating interesting and vibrant stories probably would have made it tougher for me to stand by those principles.  As it turned out though, I did not have to compromise my ideals because a few issues of Andreyko's flat, dull, character-less Batwoman was enough for me to drop the title on its own lack of merits, regardless of the 'bigger picture'.

And with numbers dropping at a steady rate, it would seem that even those readers that stuck with the book after B&W's exit are now rapidly losing interest too.

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## michael-schofield

I know we're a few months removed from the whole JHW controversy now, but does anybody know if he's ever come forward and revealed any of what his plans for the book HAD been? I've been rereading the whole series lately, and it's really made me curious as to how the whole "Bones as a Kane" thing would have gone, had it not been derailed by everything else. Also, the whole Kate/ Bette dynamic seemed to be significantly different, and was his final arc intended to be the final arc involving the DEO?

I know that technically, these threads have been resolved by Andreyko, but I'd love to know how they were initially intended to wrap up, considering how well crafted those storylines had been, and how they felt to be building to something bigger and bigger.

Thanks!

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## beetlebum

I don't know if this fits your criteria, but I found this: J.H. Williams III Teases Abandoned 'Batwoman' Plans.

It does speak of the things J.H wanted to resolve, but it doesn't go into great detail about them.

As with the whole debate about Andreyko, I'm slowly working my way into his run.

I've found the few issues I've read enjoyable for the most part, but I find myself too hampered by the disappointment of the way DC has treated Kate to enjoy it too much. It's sad Marc has to bear the brunt of the fall out.

And I like him too. Andreyko once sent me a bunch of free comics (_Manhunter_, for those wondering) and I've been a fan of his ever since. I get the sense that he's just trying to do the most with what he's been given, though sadly, he's been tasked with something quite difficult. I hope the series picks up, and the readers put off by the unfortunate way Kate has been treated, will eventually be brought back into the fold.

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## beetlebum

At least Kate is allowed to marry in the Injustice 'verse.



The only bad thing about this is my heart is torn in half, because I ship Kate and Maggie as well.

Nonetheless, I'm happy that at least one of my couples are together and married (even if it is in an AU).

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## TheDarkKnightReturns

> At least Kate is allowed to marry in the Injustice 'verse.
> 
> 
> 
> The only bad thing about this is my heart is torn in half, because I ship Kate and Maggie as well.
> 
> Nonetheless, I'm happy that at least one of my couples are together and married (even if it is in an AU).


Injustice, one of the best DC books as we speak. Thank you Injustice writers. Thank you for fully respecting Batwoman wishes.

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## michael-schofield

> I don't know if this fits your criteria, but I found this: J.H. Williams III Teases Abandoned 'Batwoman' Plans.


Wow. This is equal parts fascinating and heartbreaking.

It's not that I haven't appreciated what Andreyko has brought to the book, but it's definitely missing the gravitas and the heart the previous team provided...

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## michael-schofield

[QUOTE=beetlebum;337609]

QUOTE]

You know, I don't *need* these two still together, because I love Maggie and Kate, but I really love their history. I wish we could have more stories where they interact, either as flashbacks, or to see how their chemistry translates to the Nu52.

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## heiro5

> 


Stanley Lau's concept for this statue is fantastic.  I just got this statue, and I love it, but I'm bummed DC didn't go with this and instead decided to give her the grappling gun.



This thing is cast porcelain, I think.  It feels so fragile, like it was made to snap off.  But mostly, "just hands" would be so much cooler to me than grappling gun.  Still, looks cool as hell in my office.

I'm am sticking with the Andreyko/Haun run, but only out of sheer willfulness and love of the character.  Both story and art have been middling to me.  Looking forward to the shift in artist.  Georges Jeanty is hit and miss for me, but I will enjoy the change of pace.  Plus, bringing in monster-y supporting characters should be fun for a bit.

We'll see...

EDIT:  Talkin' about Batwoman 35.

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## heiro5

Also, saw this cosplay.  Pretty good, but she's got her bracers spun all backwards.  Whaat..?

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## TheDarkKnightReturns

> EDIT:  Talkin' about Batwoman 35.


She is going to be the leader of a group ? If confirmed, thats welcome. She deserves it. Every members of the Bat army should be leader.

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## heiro5

> She is going to be the leader of a group ? If confirmed, thats welcome. She deserves it. Every members of the Bat army should be leader.


Not totally clear.  The DC page says:




> The new storyline Batwoman and the Unknowns starts now with new artist Georges Jeanty (Buffy the Vampire Slayer)! Batwoman is neck-deep in danger with her new allies Ragman, The Demon, Clayface and Red Alice! What is going on and how did Batwoman end up here? Find out beginning in this issue!


http://www.dccomics.com/comics/batwo...11/batwoman-35

So it kind of sounds like it, but maybe they are just in the story and on her side..?  And is this an ongoing situation or just a single story arc?  We'll see.

Dave Stokes
http://stokesbook.deviantart.com/art...shed-160700809



Pryce14
http://pryce14.deviantart.com/art/BATWOMAN-397042986



Cameron Stewart

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## heiro5

Pre-redesign, 52 costume.  Dan Brereton



Adi Granov



Adam Hughes, makin' me laugh.  Nightwing... nope!  Batman... nope!  Catwoman...  Oh, yeah!

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## heiro5

Skyscraper48



Joel Gomez



Howdy Captain

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## heiro5

Stjepan Sejic sneaking Batwoman into this bat-sketch.  Would love to see a fully rendered Batwoman by him.
http://nebezial.deviantart.com/art/b...e-XD-302252425



Luciano Vecchio
http://lucianovecchio.deviantart.com...oman-340218515

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## Shimbo

So with Batwoman joining a team of other supernatural characters, do you think she should stick to using only technology against magic and the supernatural? Or do you think she'd be pretty cool as a vampire (which is being hinted at) or knowing a little magic. Imagine an arc with her teaming up with Zatanna! How awesome would that be?

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## heiro5

> Stjepan Sejic... Would love to see a fully rendered Batwoman by him.


Yeah, like this.  Now where's her heroic single shot??!  haha!
http://nebezial.deviantart.com/art/b...yles-313667720

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## heiro5

> So with Batwoman joining a team of other supernatural characters, do you think she should stick to using only technology against magic and the supernatural? Or do you think she'd be pretty cool as a vampire (which is being hinted at) or knowing a little magic. Imagine an arc with her teaming up with Zatanna! How awesome would that be?


I would be a bit bummed if she were converted into a vampire, but I think it would be good tactics and very fun story-wise if she finally decides to learn some magic given that she keeps coming up against the supernatural.

Mahmud Asrar
http://mahmudasrar.com/post/43414448...ommission-this

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## Shimbo

> I would be a bit bummed if she were converted into a vampire, but I think it would be good tactics and very fun story-wise if she finally decides to learn some magic given that she keeps coming up against the supernatural.


I agree that the vampire angle is a little tacky. I do think it'd be cool if she learned some basic magic, though. But I also like the idea of Kate having to really think about ways to take down magical and supernatural beings that don't require punching. Like in the first arc of the New 52 when she we saw her meditating to figure out how to take down La Llorona. That was nice.

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## heiro5

> But I also like the idea of Kate having to really think about ways to take down magical and supernatural beings that don't require punching. Like in the first arc of the New 52 when she we saw her meditating to figure out how to take down La Llorona. That was nice.


Yeah, I'm totally cool with this angle too, which I honestly think is how they will continue to develop her in a supernatural context.

----------


## Shimbo

> Yeah, I'm totally cool with this angle too, which I honestly think is how they will continue to develop her in a supernatural context.


Probably. But I'd still love a Zatanna team-up. Or another one with Wonder Woman. I definitely think Kate deserves to be promoted to the DCU at large. Put her in JLD or have her appear in an issue of Batman (I really do think Kate should know Bruce is Batman. And Selina should too, for that matter). Rotate her in and out of the Birds of Prey with Babs so we can see her kick ass with Dinah. I'd just like for more people to recognize Kate. She's just such an awesome character.

----------


## electr1cgoblin

> I agree that the vampire angle is a little tacky. I do think it'd be cool if she learned some basic magic, though. But I also like the idea of Kate having to really think about ways to take down magical and supernatural beings that don't require punching. Like in the first arc of the New 52 when she we saw her meditating to figure out how to take down La Llorona. That was nice.


This angle does contribute to the original nature of the book, but I guess my overall questions is always, "Why is a street level hero, with no powers and just incredible physical training being tasked to take on supernatural threats?"  Ultimately if you want her to be a warrior in the dark side of the DC world, you have to give her the tools to really go up against them.  If you aren't willing to do that, you should just draft Zatanna or someone to do this job and leave Kate to deal with Mr. Bones, Scorpio, Intergang, etc.  Kate's trained against terrorists, spies, mobsters and street level crime.  It really does not make much sense to have her fighting vampires or ghosts, particularly when there are many other DC characters who are more suited for these battles.

----------


## heiro5

> Probably. But I'd still love a Zatanna team-up. Or another one with Wonder Woman. I definitely think Kate deserves to be promoted to the DCU at large. Put her in JLD or have her appear in an issue of Batman (I really do think Kate should know Bruce is Batman. And Selina should too, for that matter). Rotate her in and out of the Birds of Prey with Babs so we can see her kick ass with Dinah. I'd just like for more people to recognize Kate. She's just such an awesome character.


Agree with everything you're saying.

Batwoman cosplay by MostFlogged
http://mostflogged.deviantart.com/ar...oman-470212981

I'm a goddamn soldier!

----------


## TheDarkKnightReturns

> Probably. But I'd still love a Zatanna team-up. Or another one with Wonder Woman. I definitely think Kate deserves to be promoted to the DCU at large. Put her in JLD or have her appear in an issue of Batman (I really do think Kate should know Bruce is Batman. And Selina should too, for that matter). Rotate her in and out of the Birds of Prey with Babs so we can see her kick ass with Dinah. I'd just like for more people to recognize Kate. She's just such an awesome character.


Hear, hear. Its a shame Kate still does not know her cousin is the goddamn Batman. I mean does she even know Bruce Wayne is her cousin ?

----------


## Shimbo

> This angle does contribute to the original nature of the book, but I guess my overall questions is always, "Why is a street level hero, with no powers and just incredible physical training being tasked to take on supernatural threats?"  Ultimately if you want her to be a warrior in the dark side of the DC world, you have to give her the tools to really go up against them.  If you aren't willing to do that, you should just draft Zatanna or someone to do this job and leave Kate to deal with Mr. Bones, Scorpio, Intergang, etc.  Kate's trained against terrorists, spies, mobsters and street level crime.  It really does not make much sense to have her fighting vampires or ghosts, particularly when there are many other DC characters who are more suited for these battles.


While I understand your line of reasoning, Kate's first costumed appearance had her fighting werewolves and gorilla people. Her story in 52 was centered on the Religion of Crime and the Crime Bible that had supernatural creatures in them. Her taking on the supernatural has been in her ballpark since she first appeared. And while you may not like the street-level vigilante taking on the supernatural, I think it opens up so many different story possibilities. Not only that, it gives Kate a place in Gotham and in the greater DCU. With so many Bat characters, they should each have their own voices and niches (not that they can't branch out). There are other things that make Kate different, but the supernatural settings that she gets involved in make her stand out. I don't think her fans necessitate her deal with the supernatural in every story and every arc, but neither should we try to completely divorce her from that which she's been most heavily involved in for most of her publication history.

----------


## michael-schofield

> I don't think her fans necessitate her deal with the supernatural in every story and every arc, but neither should we try to completely divorce her from that which she's been most heavily involved in for most of her publication history.


This sums up how I feel about Kate as well. She's been too intrinsically linked to the supernatural elements of Gotham to just ignore that part of her history, but I would be interested in seeing her in some other types of stories. Remember that story arc from Detective Comics that was never collected? That one was really cool. 

Speaking of collections, any word on why Batwoman: Volume 5 is going to be Softcover only? I know it's anal, but I'm sad it wont match all my HCs!

----------


## Shimbo

> In "Batwoman," Andreyko will soon introduce a team called The Unknowns which will draw on more horror-themed characters like Clayface, Ragman and The Demon as well as a new character who may be related to Kate Kane. The arc will take the characters to outer space, though the writer promised that he would also ground the story in Batwoman's own personal journey as faces from her past in the military will return to challenge her own sense of self. "It's a real honor to deal with this character because I feel like she really fills a void in superhero comics," he said, particularly noting Batwoman's desire to have a normal life outside of superheroing.


I definitely wasn't expecting Kate in space. But, y'know what, I'm down for some Kate in space. I'm down for Kate anywhere and everywhere because she's an amazing freakin' character and I want to read more of her in different and weird situations and places. You can also tell that Andreyko really loves Kate, too. I think he's done very well by her and I'm really excited to see how this The Unknowns arc plays out.




> A reader excited to see Ragman return asked whether the shared Judaism of Batwoman and Ragman would play a role in the series. Andreyko joked that "We're going to be doing a Passover special" before giving a more serious response that the character's background will remain intact from his pre-New 52 version and that he has long term plans for Ragman's inclusion in the book. The writer also revealed that the mystery character in the Unknowns team will be called Red Alice.


Also definitely excited for Ragman. And let's not kid ourselves, Red Alice is obviously Beth. I think it's a really cool idea, but only if Andreyko brings her crazy back. And she really should be Kate's Joker, as cliched as some may find that.

----------


## Enigmatic Undead



----------


## Enigmatic Undead



----------


## quinnzel

Kate Kane is such an interesting, layered character and I've really been enjoying reading through her story so far. Elegy was amazing. 

My one problem... J.H. Williams III's artwork is so dynamic and stunning that when someone else tries to draw her in some other style, I'm not sure I'll be able to love it _quite_ as much as Williams'. The art in the books is among some of the best I've ever seen. I mean WOW.

----------


## Shimbo

> Kate Kane is such an interesting, layered character and I've really been enjoying reading through her story so far. Elegy was amazing. 
> 
> My one problem... J.H. Williams III's artwork is so dynamic and stunning that when someone else tries to draw her in some other style, I'm not sure I'll be able to love it _quite_ as much as Williams'. The art in the books is among some of the best I've ever seen. I mean WOW.


Yeah, Batwoman has had some amazing art. You should check out the "Cutter" arc that ran in 'Tec after Elegy. JHW3 drew almost every issue of the New 52 run until the fourth volume, when Trevor McCarthy came in. It's definitely a jarring shift, but he definitely fit with Batwoman. After the original creative team, however, Jeremy Haun took over and the change was...drastic. But I, and many others, have grown to really appreciate his art, so much so that a lot of us are disappointed by a change in artist coming up in issue 35. Jeanty is taking over, and while I wasn't familiar with his work he seems like an adequate artist. I really would love a return to the more experimental art this book used to have, but I'll take a Batwoman book with less than original/stellar art over no Batwoman book at all.

----------


## quinnzel

Thanks, I'll definitely check it out!

I actually wasn't aware that the creative team for Batwoman was changing after #35 until just recently. It's a real shame. Seems like lots of New 52 books are changing the creative team after #35.

I definitely agree with you, though-- even if the art isn't as amazing as JHW3' current stuff, I'll still keep coming back to Batwoman.

----------


## electr1cgoblin

> Thanks, I'll definitely check it out!
> 
> I actually wasn't aware that the creative team for Batwoman was changing after #35 until just recently. It's a real shame. Seems like lots of New 52 books are changing the creative team after #35.
> 
> I definitely agree with you, though-- even if the art isn't as amazing as JHW3' current stuff, I'll still keep coming back to Batwoman.


Wait, when you say 'creative team' you just mean the artist is changing, right?  Andreyko is still writing after #35, correct?

----------


## MykeHavoc

Finally playing catch up on this. I got the first 2 hardcovers a year ago. Enjoyed them immensely, though the art change in volume 2 was a bit of a draw back and some of the writing was suffering. Im now reading vol 3 and 4 digitally. A few issues in, and its leaps and bounds improved. JH's art is back, the writing, Diana guest starring etc. Im going to read through until the creative switch happened and decide whether to continue reading.

Was that second zero issue not one of the best? Real good stuff.

----------


## quinnzel

> Wait, when you say 'creative team' you just mean the artist is changing, right?  Andreyko is still writing after #35, correct?


WHOOPS! I got my wires seriously crossed here, I am so sorry. I was thinking of Wonder Woman with Azzarello and Batgirl's creative team leaving after #35. I meant to say JHW3 leaving after #26. I'm actually not familiar with the current creative team on it right now. I'm following Batwoman right now only in trades and I'm only up to volume 2, so I'm behind the current single issue run right now. My sincerest apologies!

----------


## Shimbo

> Wait, when you say 'creative team' you just mean the artist is changing, right?  Andreyko is still writing after #35, correct?



Yup. Only the artist is changing. But he could only be penciling the one issue. I'm interested to see his take on Batwoman, space, and the supernatural elements of the book. That said, I was really getting used to Haun. Whatever happened to Jason Masters? I thought he did a nice job as a fill-in for that one issue in the first Andreyko arc.

----------


## DjessNL

So guys, what's your dream creative team on Batwoman? What's on your wishlist for the series?

----------


## Shimbo

> So guys, what's your dream creative team on Batwoman? What's on your wishlist for the series?



Rucka as writer and JHW3 as artist.

----------


## Punisher007

I'd like to see Gail Simone take a shot at writing Batwoman as well.  The stuff in her Batgirl run probably would have worked better in a Batwoman book imo.  Rucka coming back would be really cool, and even Marjorie Liu (she's not doing much at the Big Two right now).  As for art, JH Williams III would be idea, but someone like Stephanie Hans or Andrea Sorrentino could be really cool as well.

----------


## electr1cgoblin

> WHOOPS! I got my wires seriously crossed here, I am so sorry. I was thinking of Wonder Woman with Azzarello and Batgirl's creative team leaving after #35. I meant to say JHW3 leaving after #26. I'm actually not familiar with the current creative team on it right now. I'm following Batwoman right now only in trades and I'm only up to volume 2, so I'm behind the current single issue run right now. My sincerest apologies!


Not a problem, just wanted to be sure Marc is staying.  So far, I'm enjoying his ideas for the book.

----------


## Enigmatic Undead



----------


## exile001

> Not a problem, just wanted to be sure Marc is staying.  So far, I'm enjoying his ideas for the book.


Yeah, I'd love to see Rucka return to Batwoman (or anything DC, actually) but Andreyko has a fan for life in me thanks to Manhunter. What a great book. He's doing a great job and the writing hasn't missed a beat. 

The series' current issue is that going from JHW3 to anyone will seem like a step down, regardless of how great the art is. I was hoping for Sorrentino, but he's off to Marvel (where I will follow).

----------


## hsalf

I got curious about Batwoman by reading Eternal and hearing about the upcoming storyarc. So I picked up Elegy and wow, I've been missing out on a great character and book. Now to play a little catch up. The only bummer is sales look a little on the low side, hopefully it doesn't get cancelled anytime soon.

----------


## Shimbo

> I got curious about Batwoman by reading Eternal and hearing about the upcoming storyarc. So I picked up Elegy and wow, I've been missing out on a great character and book. Now to play a little catch up. The only bummer is sales look a little on the low side, hopefully it doesn't get cancelled anytime soon.


Yeah, her sales for last month's issue were at approximately 24k, but as long as they stay in around there I doubt DC will cancel Batwoman. With all the new female led titles Marvel is launching, DC has something they don't, a lesbian female led book (and she's Jewish). Even with 24k, her book sold more than Green Arrow, Supergirl, Green Lantern: NG, JL3K, RHatO, Catwoman and other DC and Marvel books. So, let's hope the new direction brings in some new readers and keeps them around.

----------


## hsalf

> Yeah, her sales for last month's issue were at approximately 24k, but as long as they stay in around there I doubt DC will cancel Batwoman. With all the new female led titles Marvel is launching, DC has something they don't, a lesbian female led book (and she's Jewish). Even with 24k, her book sold more than Green Arrow, Supergirl, Green Lantern: NG, JL3K, RHatO, Catwoman and other DC and Marvel books. So, let's hope the new direction brings in some new readers and keeps them around.


Yeah I hope the book sticks around. When I started getting back into comics this last spring (after a 15 year absence), as I knew nothing about the character, I passed on it. Glad Eternal gave her a bit of exposure.

----------


## Punisher007

I REALLY did not like how a certain plot point was handled in the latest issue.  It didn't work for me at all.  Also, that last scene makes me VERY conflicted.

----------


## DjessNL

Who do you guys want to see Batwoman up against in the future? And teaming up with?

----------


## TheDarkKnightReturns

> Who do you guys want to see Batwoman up against in the future? And teaming up with?


Batwoman teaming up with Batman to take down Ra's Al Ghul and Lady Shiva. You know, to show people how badass Kate really is. And Ra's noticing her should increase her profile.

----------


## Shimbo

> Who do you guys want to see Batwoman up against in the future? And teaming up with?


Batwoman and Zatanna. Batwoman and Black Canary (maybe establish Dinah as bisexual?). Batwoman and Catwoman. Batwoman and Starling (somebody mentioned them having a one-night stand in a BoP thread. I think that'd be hysterical. Of course, Batwoman has to keep her mask on).

In terms of villains, I don't really know. I'd prefer for more additions to her rogues gallery. Although the Ra's and Lady Shiva suggestion sounds great to me.

----------


## Vworp Vworp

> Yeah, her sales for last month's issue were at approximately 24k, but as long as they stay in around there I doubt DC will cancel Batwoman.


I guess it depends how quickly (and how far) the Bombshell cover sales boost dissipates.  Prior to June, #31's sales only hit about 18.5k.   The Bombshell cover elevated #32 to around 33.5k, so the book has already lost almost 10,000 potential new readers in just one month.

The sort-of relaunch with the 'unknowns' arc starting in #35 might bring in some new readers, albeit those interested in the other characters.  On the other hand, potentially turning Kate's solo book into essentially a team book might also alienate a few current readers if Kate is sidelined in her own title to accommodate four more characters.

----------


## electr1cgoblin

> Who do you guys want to see Batwoman up against in the future? And teaming up with?


Enjoyed her Wonder Woman team up.  Yeah, I agree that a proper team up with Batman (where she isn't trying to expose him) would be a nice story.  I also think Batgirl and Huntress are inevitable, so you might as well do them up right.

As far as villains, I personally would like to see her move away from the supernatural foes a bit and build her own rogue's gallery of criminals, terrorists, super spies, etc.   Prometheus, maybe?

----------


## MykeHavoc

I'm still soured by the creative team getting bitch slapped with wrapping up their story. And the annual just bummed me out even more. I love this character though. The solicitations for this new team she's becoming apart of sounds interesting. I've skipped all the monthly issues since the switch, though. Is the current writer good? I mean, he'd need to blow my mind for me to feel getting back on would be worth it; to cave in my principles and all :-P

As for her Rogues, the DEO stuff was a huge draw. Why make another Gotham crimfighter have the same cookie cutter villains as the others? With all the spooky, moody settings, I see no reason to not have someone focus on the supernatural stuff that everyone else overlooks. I mean, she HAD Croc until he was forced out by editorial. Taking the hyperbolic references of him from Arkham Asylum: SHOSE and making them literal was awesome. He's always been a favorite and now he had a chance to shine. Nope. Plucked out, back to old thug croc (though the villains month issue was awesome). And I was digging the Alice story, and all the Crime Bible stuff carried over from Rucka's various books. My only gripe was too many damn dead children. It was getting depressing. But overall, easily one of the best books of the reboot. I just wish everyone could've agreed on the whole wedding thing and JH and co. Could have stayed on. Who knows. Maybe bridges can be mended. They owe that guy some carte blanche after the more than a decade of gorgeous art he gave DC.

----------


## Shimbo

> I'm still soured by the creative team getting bitch slapped with wrapping up their story. And the annual just bummed me out even more. I love this character though. The solicitations for this new team she's becoming apart of sounds interesting. I've skipped all the monthly issues since the switch, though. Is the current writer good? I mean, he'd need to blow my mind for me to feel getting back on would be worth it; to cave in my principles and all :-P
> 
> As for her Rogues, the DEO stuff was a huge draw. Why make another Gotham crimfighter have the same cookie cutter villains as the others? With all the spooky, moody settings, I see no reason to not have someone focus on the supernatural stuff that everyone else overlooks. I mean, she HAD Croc until he was forced out by editorial. Taking the hyperbolic references of him from Arkham Asylum: SHOSE and making them literal was awesome. He's always been a favorite and now he had a chance to shine. Nope. Plucked out, back to old thug croc (though the villains month issue was awesome). And I was digging the Alice story, and all the Crime Bible stuff carried over from Rucka's various books. My only gripe was too many damn dead children. It was getting depressing. But overall, easily one of the best books of the reboot. I just wish everyone could've agreed on the whole wedding thing and JH and co. Could have stayed on. Who knows. Maybe bridges can be mended. They owe that guy some carte blanche after the more than a decade of gorgeous art he gave DC.


I've been enjoying Andreyko's run. He's best at characterization and natural dialogue. I'm still a little curious as to why he spent the first six issues on such an underwhelming villain, but he's picked up the pace with the Nocturna arc. Just be prepared for some changes. Bette had a decent character arc under the first creative team, but Andreyko hasn't really used her much and when she has shown up, she's back to her more bubbly persona. The Kane family is no longer really present. Kate doesn't dress in her signature goth-rockabilly whathaveyou style anymore (which I hope Jeanty brings back). Try it out. Or pick up issue #35 in October and let us know what you think.

----------


## MykeHavoc

Thanks. Some of those points are a bit "wtf" worthy, but when that new arc starts, I'll give it a shot.

----------


## Vworp Vworp

> I've been enjoying Andreyko's run. He's best at characterization and natural dialogue.


Funny how we all see things differently.  For me, it was the sudden absence of characterisation that ultimately put me off Andreyko's run.  I just found his dialogue so...  I don't know... so perfunctory.   It all felt very flat and generic, Kate especially.  For me, Marc's run feels like a fill-in writer, going through the motions but not really connecting with the character on any level.

----------


## Shimbo

> Funny how we all see things differently.  For me, it was the sudden absence of characterisation that ultimately put me off Andreyko's run.  I just found his dialogue so...  I don't know... so perfunctory.   It all felt very flat and generic, Kate especially.  For me, Marc's run feels like a fill-in writer, going through the motions but not really connecting with the character on any level.


Haha, that's just my opinion. I have heard some others express similar sentiments about Andreyko's Kate, but I personally don't see it. I hope you'll try out the new arc, and if not, that you'll come back to the book when/if there's a different writer (assuming you have dropped the book, that is).

----------


## Oberon

> Batwoman and Zatanna. Batwoman and Black Canary (maybe establish Dinah as bisexual?). Batwoman and Catwoman. Batwoman and Starling (somebody mentioned them having a one-night stand in a BoP thread. I think that'd be hysterical. Of course, Batwoman has to keep her mask on).
> 
> In terms of villains, I don't really know. I'd prefer for more additions to her rogues gallery. Although the Ra's and Lady Shiva suggestion sounds great to me.


Ummm, how about Batwoman and... Flamebird!  I'm tired of Bette being shoved to the sidelines. From Elegy on, it was the intention to bring her back. There's no reason to ignore and not revamp her in a better light.  I so hate "Hawkfire", makes no sense to me at all. And lately she hasn't appeared in I think 2 issues. I suspect she is being quietly dropped. What a shame.   I had such hopes we would get some serious continuity with silver age Robin and Bat-girl moments.

I did not favor the post crisis "Robin-stalker" take on Bette, but I always thought making her Flamebird was a wonderful way to homage both the original NW/FB team and the distinct possibility that there could be something more between Dick and her.   I await your brick-bats!

----------


## Punisher007

My problem with Andreyko is that since he took over, Kate seems to have become a lot less competent.  She's making amateurish mistakes that she really shouldn't.  How *spoilers:*
 Nocturna discovered her identity was face-palm worthy, really Marc, really? 
*end of spoilers*  That's incredibly OOC.  Also, I didn't buy *spoilers:*
 how the breakup with Maggie was handled 
*end of spoilers* and the whole *spoilers:*
 Lesbian-vampire thing (especially since Nocturna practically sexually assaulted her in that last scene) 
*end of spoilers* just makes me cringe.

----------


## Enigmatic Undead



----------


## Shimbo

BW_Cv37.jpg

BATWOMAN #37
Written by MARC ANDREYKO
Art by GEORGES JEANTY
Cover by RAFAEL ALBUQUERQUE
On sale DECEMBER 17 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US • RATED T+
The cultish crimes continue to corrupt Gotham City – and their next target is...Clayface? Also, Batwoman’s toxic connection to Nocturna continues to spiral down to a place where even demons fear to tread!

----------


## Punisher007

Ugh, oh dear sweet merciful crap.  :Mad:

----------


## Kurisu

Cool, but that cover looks like Rafael didn't even try though.  :Frown:

----------


## Shimbo

> Ugh, oh dear sweet merciful crap.


Haha, I'm guessing the lesbian vampire stuff is pissing you off?

----------


## The Whovian

It really ticks me off that JHW isn't going to be on this book anymore. I absolutely love his artwork. I would buy this book for his gorgeous art alone. Hopefully he will end up on a big book. It would be amazing to see him on Daredevil

----------


## DjessNL

While I dislike Vampire Batwoman, I really enjoyed Etrigan's, Ragman and Alice's designs in the FE one-shot. And I didn't mind Clayface either.

----------


## beetlebum

ladyasakura

----------


## beetlebum

On another note, I still need to catch-up on Batwoman, but from what I've seen from the previews, some of her stuff is starting to borderline on horror erotica, so I'm not sure if I still want to. Though I might just end up doing so to satiate my curiosity.




> Enjoyed her Wonder Woman team up.  Yeah, I agree that a proper team up with Batman (where she isn't trying to expose him) would be a nice story.  I also think Batgirl and Huntress are inevitable, so you might as well do them up right.
> 
> As far as villains, I personally would like to see her move away from the supernatural foes a bit and build her own rogue's gallery of criminals, terrorists, super spies, etc.   Prometheus, maybe?


I want to see her team up with Helena Bertinelli or Stephanie Brown.

I know Hel is far off doing stuff with Spyral now, but it's always been a dream of mine to see them team-up.

Same thing with Steph. I would just love for those two to work together. 

Also agreeing about Kate getting her own rogues gallery. It's just  one of those things that needs to happen, and I'd love to see villains specifically developed for her.

----------


## Punisher007

From what I've seen of Andreyko's work, he's a good writer overall.  However, every now and then he does these story/plot-lines that leave you scratching your head and wondering how he could possibly think that it was a good idea (this is one such idea).  He was also the guy who wrote the Nightwing Annual where Dick slept with Barbara the day before he was supposed to marry Starfire, and then gave her an invitation to said wedding the next morning.  That was another "WTH were you thinking" moment.  Lesbian vampire, really?  That's the best that you could come up with, seriously?

----------


## DjessNL

> On another note, I still need to catch-up on Batwoman, but from what I've seen from the previews, some of her stuff is starting to borderline on horror erotica, so I'm not sure if I still want to. Though I might just end up doing so to satiate my curiosity.
> 
> 
> 
> I want to see her team up with Helena Bertinelli or Stephanie Brown.
> 
> I know Hel is far off doing stuff with Spyral now, but it's always been a dream of mine to see them team-up.
> 
> Same thing with Steph. I would just love for those two to work together. 
> ...



10/10 would pay hundreds for Steph/Kate team-up. Also, developing my own Rogue Gallery for Batwoman.. but I bet people will hate it, lol

----------


## michael-schofield

Does anybody know if Batwoman is scheduled to appear in Lego Batman 3? I haven't heard anything, but surely if Bat-Cow is in there, they wouldn't forget Kate... right?

----------


## TheDarkKnightReturns

> Does anybody know if Batwoman is scheduled to appear in Lego Batman 3? I haven't heard anything, but surely if Bat-Cow is in there, they wouldn't forget Kate... right?


I hope not as well.

----------


## heiro5

In my limited spare time I've been fooling around with this illustration.  I am a big fan of Batwoman, and then the new look and direction for Barbara Gordon suggested this to me.  Tried to contrast their personalities and play up the light/dark thing that the original Bataman and Robin had.  I think this would be a fun team up.

Of course, mostly all I see are the flaws.  Oh, well.

----------


## electr1cgoblin

> In my limited spare time I've been fooling around with this illustration.  I am a big fan of Batwoman, and then the new look and direction for Barbara Gordon suggested this to me.  Tried to contrast their personalities and play up the light/dark thing that the original Bataman and Robin had.  I think this would be a fun team up.
> 
> Of course, mostly all I see are the flaws.  Oh, well.


I think it's a really creative theme for a (well drawn) sketch, and I agree that a team up between the two would be very interesting.

----------


## BatGlamorous

Not to be overly negative, but does anyone else think that her title isn't going to survive past Convergence? The past few issues have danced pretty close to cancellation level, unfortunately. I could easily see it wrapping with #39 right before the event starts. A new "Batwoman and the Unknowns #1" in the Spring could be a possibility, though. It seems current DC is more in favor of relaunching/re-branding a struggling title than canceling it outright.

----------


## Punisher007

IDK, but given how far this book has fallen quality-wise since the creative team shift (both in the writing and art), I'm not so sure that a relaunch with a new creative team might not be for the best.

----------


## Thirteen

> On another note, I still need to catch-up on Batwoman, but from what I've seen from the previews, some of her stuff is starting to borderline on horror erotica, so I'm not sure if I still want to. Though I might just end up doing so to satiate my curiosity.


batwoman29_cov_size3.jpg
I recently took a peek at the current run of Batwoman, having drifted away from keeping up with it with the departure of Rucka/JHWII etc.
While I think Nocturna is absolutely a character that fits Batwoman's Gothic Quasi Supernatural Rogues Gallery, and the whole "horror erotica" thing is part and parcel of her character, the execution has left a bit to be desired.  

batwoman-sired.jpg

A lot of the moments feel like I'm still reading Andryenko's Kate "Manhunter" Spencer and not Kate Kane.  Especially with the moment Kane's identity was compromised.  I'm certain the measures that had been taken to make that NOT happen with the mask were outlined early on.  Kate Kane is more competent than that.
batwoman1.jpg

Beyond the covers, I feel like the visuals are a bit lackluster overall.   Batwoman could use a creative detour for a bit in a wildly different direction.  I'd love to see what Mike Deodato would do with her shadowy world or if Jae Lee would make a return to interiors.

Would be neat if she showed up in Montoya Question title during Convergence.

----------


## Shimbo

> batwoman29_cov_size3.jpg
> I recently took a peek at the current run of Batwoman, having drifted away from keeping up with it with the departure of Rucka/JHWII etc.
> While I think Nocturna is absolutely a character that fits Batwoman's Gothic Quasi Supernatural Rogues Gallery, and the whole "horror erotica" thing is part and parcel of her character, the execution has left a bit to be desired.  
> 
> batwoman-sired.jpg
> 
> A lot of the moments feel like I'm still reading Andryenko's Kate "Manhunter" Spencer and not Kate Kane.  Especially with the moment Kane's identity was compromised.  I'm certain the measures that had been taken to make that NOT happen with the mask were outlined early on.  Kate Kane is more competent than that.
> batwoman1.jpg
> 
> ...


I agree with everything you've said. I think Andreyko portrayed her as pretty competent in the last two issues, at least compared to what he's written her to do early in his run. I like the idea of Batwoman and the Unknowns, but the art is subpar and the writing feels a little unfocused at times. I feel like the Bat office isn't paying attention to this book because it's getting cancelled soon and that would suck.

----------


## michael-schofield

> I feel like the Bat office isn't paying attention to this book because it's getting cancelled soon and that would suck.


Can't agree with this more  :Frown: 

It's been extra dissapointing that Mark Andreyko just hasn't really taken to this book as well as I expected him too- it's like when you have two friends that you think would be perfect together, try to set them up, and they just have zero chemistry. It SHOULD have worked, but for some reason, it just hasn't clicked. 

How was the book selling back before M.A took over?

----------


## electr1cgoblin

> Can't agree with this more 
> 
> It's been extra dissapointing that Mark Andreyko just hasn't really taken to this book as well as I expected him too- it's like when you have two friends that you think would be perfect together, try to set them up, and they just have zero chemistry. It SHOULD have worked, but for some reason, it just hasn't clicked. 
> 
> How was the book selling back before M.A took over?


The book has dropped quite a bit since Marc took over...however, it was dropping noticeably even before he came on.

Check out the real numbers here.

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales.html

----------


## Punisher007

It's just so disappointing.  The best idea that they could come up with is "let's break up one of the few positive/stable LGBT relationships in the Big Two in an incredibly stupid and contrived way.  And then lets immediately put her into a disturbing pseudo-rapey relationship with a villain."  Really, that's the best that you've got Marc?  Also, the art has taken an obvious, and large, dip in quality.

----------


## BatGlamorous

> It's just so disappointing.  The best idea that they could come up with is "let's break up one of the few positive/stable LGBT relationships in the Big Two in an incredibly stupid and contrived way.  And then lets immediately put her into a disturbing pseudo-rapey relationship with a villain."  Really, that's the best that you've got Marc?  Also, the art has taken an obvious, and large, dip in quality.


Not to mention throwing her into space!

I've never seen a good book implode so fast. I really think a cancel/relaunch would be an act of mercy at this point. Batwing was selling 9k a month before it got canned, so maybe _Batwoman_ will be given enough of a grace period to turn around. 2014 was a lot more stable in sales than the previous years, even if it was still declining.

----------


## Punisher007

Actually, I have no real problem with that idea.  Heck I loved the space arc in RHATO.  The WAY that it's being done, well that's another story.

----------


## electr1cgoblin

OK, guys, a bit confused here...what order should I have read these books in?  I read Batwoman 34, with Nocturna, Killshot, etc., then I went to Batwoman Future's End #1, then I read Batwoman #35.  How do I get, story wise, from the second to the third?  That is, was there something between BFE and BW 35 I should have read, because at this point I'm totally confused, sorry.

----------


## Kurisu

> OK, guys, a bit confused here...what order should I have read these books in?  I read Batwoman 34, with Nocturna, Killshot, etc., then I went to Batwoman Future's End #1, then I read Batwoman #35.  How do I get, story wise, from the second to the third?  That is, was there something between BFE and BW 35 I should have read, because at this point I'm totally confused, sorry.


No, you haven't missed anything. The issues following #35 will explain how everything got to this point. I wouldn't worry about FE tbh. I don't think it's anything more than an alternate ending to the current arc.

----------


## electr1cgoblin

> No, you haven't missed anything. The issues following #35 will explain how everything got to this point. I wouldn't worry about FE tbh. I don't think it's anything more than an alternate ending to the current arc.


OK, thanks...wow, though, that is really  not a good way to attract new readers (or old ones, for that matter).  The story is just all over the place.  I like the art and I'm intrigued by the notion of the "unknowns", but damn, the narrative is like a bowl of jello.

----------


## beetlebum

So yeah, Batwoman's canceled.

It seems like a mercy killing to me, to be honest.

Everything just went straight to Hell after J.H Williams left and DC decided that somehow, allowing Kate to be raped by Nocturna was more compelling than any of the plans that Williams and Blackman had for her.

I'm sad this has happened, but there's a part of me that also feels strangely relieved, as it means she's out of Nocturna's grip now.

I wish her series could have stayed around with good writing, but alas ... in life, I am not allowed to have nice things.

My only fear now is DC killing off either her or Maggie for shock value. And given the fact that DC is DC, I wouldn't put it past the realm of possibility for them.

----------


## Clockwork_Fish

> So yeah, Batwoman's canceled.
> 
> It seems like a mercy killing to me, to be honest.
> 
> Everything just went straight to Hell after J.H Williams left and DC decided that somehow, allowing Kate to be raped by Nocturna was more compelling than any of the plans that Williams and Blackman had for her.
> 
> I'm sad this has happened, but there's a part of me that also feels strangely relieved, as it means she's out of Nocturna's grip now.
> 
> I wish her series could have stayed around with good writing, but alas ... in life, I am not allowed to have nice things.
> ...


It wouldn't surprise me if they kill off Kate and replace her with a newer, safer, straighter Batwoman.  They should just let the character slip back into limbo until somebody comes around who actually knows what to do with her.  They have had no positive press on this title and no end of headaches since they booted Williams and Blackman.  As far as I'm concerned the series ended with them, and DC should just let it rest.

----------


## beetlebum

> It wouldn't surprise me if they kill off Kate and replace her with a newer, safer, straighter Batwoman.


I wouldn't be surprised if they did that too.

I also wouldn't be surprised if they removed the ethnoreligious aspect of her and somehow made her stand-in a Goy and no longer a Jewish woman.

I just wouldn't put anything past DC.

Of course, this is all speculation [and they could prove me wrong] ...

But given DC's track record, we all have a right to be worried.

----------


## nepenthes

> It wouldn't surprise me if they kill off Kate and replace her with a newer, safer, straighter Batwoman.





> I wouldn't be surprised if they did that too.
> 
> I also wouldn't be surprised if they removed the ethnoreligious aspect of her and somehow made her stand-in a Goy and no longer a Jewish woman.
> 
> I just wouldn't put anything past DC.
> 
> Of course, this is all speculation [and they could prove me wrong] ...
> 
> But given DC's track record, we all have a right to be worried.




Not sure how these comments are warranted when we all know DC have been going quite out of their way to increase diversity across the line lately. Not reduce it.

----------


## Clockwork_Fish

> Not sure how these comments are warranted when we all know DC have been going quite out of their way to increase diversity across the line lately. Not reduce it.


They fired Williams and Blackman because they didn't want a lesbian wedding; the current creative team has been criticized by how they handled the editorially mandated breakup, and the subsequent...rapey lesbian vampire thing.  I don't think it's an issue of intolerance, mind you, just that they haven't put much thought into anything they're doing, and have fallen into some pretty obvious traps as a result.

DC may want to increase diversity, but they clearly don't like anything about this character or where the previous creative team took her.  I can see them shelving Kate Kane and replacing her with an all new Batwoman who has no relationship or sexuality issues that might stir up controversy and which would basically be just a second Batgirl book.

----------


## oasis1313

Why not have Barbara Gordon graduate up to Batwoman status, and leave Batgirl for Steph or Cass who's closer to a "girl" age?

----------


## LostinFandom

I'm really sad about the cancellation. I knew it was coming and it still stings.  I hope it gets relaunched soonish and that Kate Kane as Batwoman continues in other titles in the post Convergence DCU.

I'm still pretty angry with Williams and Blackman.  I blame them for making it impossible for the following creative team to have the type of enthusiasm needed to great a new endeavor. They made it about a story that didn't happen.  Nothing that does happen can compete with that.

----------


## geetard

Hopefully we'll get that rumoured BoP relaunch with Batwoman in post-Convergence.

----------


## Dmreyn

> Hopefully we'll get that rumoured BoP relaunch with Batwoman in post-Convergence.


I would definitely pick that up if this ends up happening. Batwoman might not have her own book, but she's too much of a cult classic favorite to not be seen again anytime soon. It would be interesting to see her on a team as well, maybe bring Bette along for the ride. I think everybody had high hopes for "The Unknowns" but it hasn't exactly transpired to anything more than a mash up of horror-themed creatures + Batwoman + Clayface fighting mythical creatures in space.

----------


## LostinFandom

> I would definitely pick that up if this ends up happening. Batwoman might not have her own book, but she's too much of a cult classic favorite to not be seen again anytime soon. It would be interesting to see her on a team as well, maybe bring Bette along for the ride. I think everybody had high hopes for "The Unknowns" but it hasn't exactly transpired to anything more than a mash up of horror-themed creatures + Batwoman + Clayface fighting mythical creatures in space.


I don't think The Unknowns ever really generated much excitement. The two back to back flash forward issues felt more like exposition than giving a team feel or any sense of what it was about. (I thought it was too much to have those issues like that. After the Rape articles came out I thought maybe it was to assure readers that what was happening with Nocturna wouldn't last long and was about bring Bstwoman back to the horror occult.)

----------


## Punisher007

They didn't veto the Kate/Maggie wedding because they were Lesbians.  They vetoed it because DC has this ridiculous (heroes cannot have happy personal lives, or else they cannot be heroes) mandate.  And given how much flak DC has gotten over both the marriage debacle and the Nocturna creepiness, I cannot see them just getting rid of one of their, if not their, most prominent LGBT characters.  I wouldn't be surprised if we get a relaunch down the line with a new creative team, or at least have her become a recurring presence in another Bat-book.

----------


## nepenthes

100% Kate will have a leading role in something post-Convergence. They can star her in an new Outlaws books, new BoP, Spyral, Checkmate, SHADE or JLD, Question/Batwoman, Wonder Woman/Batwoman, World Finest.   




> I don't think The Unknowns ever really generated much excitement. The two back to back flash forward issues felt more like exposition than giving a team feel or any sense of what it was about. (I thought it was too much to have those issues like that. After the Rape articles came out I thought maybe it was to assure readers that what was happening with Nocturna wouldn't last long and was about bring Bstwoman back to the horror occult.)


The *concept* was exciting, a team and Red Alice and Ragman and space adventures etc - all that stuff is awesome. The problem as mentioned upthread however is that the first two issues barely explored any of that properly. It's all stupid cartoon fights and one-liners. It's not even that the arc began en media res. It's that nothing of substance actually happens. 




> They fired Williams and Blackman because they didn't want a lesbian wedding; the current creative team has been criticized by how they handled the editorially mandated breakup, and the subsequent...rapey lesbian vampire thing


As Punisher already pointed out they blocked the marriage because apparently Animal Man is the only character permitted a stable relationship (it's kind a huge part of the premise).  It's not a gay thing, it's a DC-characters-must-be-miserable- and-alone-forever thing.

----------


## LostinFandom

Because it needs to be said: Williams and Blackman weren't writing a healthy and happy relationship.  They did include a lot of problematic stuff included in how they presented Kate's sexuality (including having her sexually assaulted by a minor villain).

I'm going to continue reading Batwoman until the end. I fact I'm re reading it and blogging about it. I'm still interested in Red Alice, partially because I can't imagine Rucka or Williams & Blackman going there.  (Also I thought issue #36 was one of the strongest issues).

I like the _Birds of Prey_ idea. My other idea would be that she have a larger role in the second year of _Batman Eternal_, but I'm not a big fan of that series.

----------


## Blacksun

> Because it needs to be said: Williams and Blackman weren't writing a healthy and happy relationship.  They did include a lot of problematic stuff included in how they presented Kate's sexuality (including having her sexually assaulted by a minor villain).


I don't see it this way. From what I know the villain just kissed her, nothing on andreyko levels

----------


## LostinFandom

> I don't see it this way. From what I know the villain just kissed her, nothing on andreyko levels


She/he did it to unnerve her while misleading her and the DOE. It was arguably more gratuitous and kind of trans-phobic.  And it wasn't the only incident. I bring this up a lot, because it needs to be said: they paired Kate and Maggie's first sex scene with Bette being gutted by a pedophile over nine pages! Kate stalked Maggie and broke into her office immediately following their first date. In a later issue Kate "accidentally" drugged Maggie with Scarecrow toxin.  That plot point was "resolved" by having Kate drug herself with the same toxin as Maggie watched.  That is such a selfish, stupid act.  Maggie should have walked out on her while she hallucinated, but instead they played up the love scene aspect.  That was their second to last issue.

----------


## HeWhoSlapsAll

Maybe a new outsiders book, but with Kate as the lead? BoP is a good idea, as is a new Outlaws book w/o Jason.

----------


## Blacksun

Wonderella ‏@wonderella  4 hHá 4 horas
Happy Hanukkah to Batwoman, hope you are allowed to spend it with those you are editorially permitted to love.

I saw this on twitter and laughed. then I cried

----------


## Punisher007

A book with Kate becoming the (somewhat reluctant) mentor to the younger Bat-characters (Bette, Steph, Cass, Harper, etc).  Given her "questionable" methods for training Better before, it could be interesting to see Kate in a role that she's not immediately comfortable with.

----------


## BatGlamorous

I hope there's at least one arc in her new series that deals with something like transphobia or homeless LGBT youths. I've always felt like the series could be...more "gay", I guess? As a person in the LGBT community, I'd really like a comic that talks about issues concerning us head on. DC seems to consider Kate's sexuality as a backseat personality trait, which is disappointing. I'd love a gay superhero that dealt with inherently gay issues, even if it's not their raison d'etre.

----------


## LostinFandom

> I hope there's at least one arc in her new series that deals with something like transphobia or homeless LGBT youths. I've always felt like the series could be...more "gay", I guess? As a person in the LGBT community, I'd really like a comic that talks about issues concerning us head on. DC seems to consider Kate's sexuality as a backseat personality trait, which is disappointing. I'd love a gay superhero that dealt with inherently gay issues, even if it's not their raison d'etre.


Christy Marx _Birds of Prey_ run emphasized how all the characters (minus Batgirl) were escaping working for corrupt organizations which failed them. (Black Canary was with Team 7, Strix from the Court of Owls, Condor from Basilisk).  Since speculating that Batwoman could be a member of the next Birds of Prey I've been thinking that Kate/Batwoman fits better with that unifying theme for BoP members than Batgirl.  Reading your comment I wonder about doing a more about if we took working for marginalized people including LGBTQ could be the starting point for a BoP with Batwoman.

I just think we're getting another BoP before we get a _Batwoman_.

----------


## Man-Thing

So I just went and picked up a bunch of back-issues, having not read since to the end of the wolfspider arc due to financial setbacks.

...

The story went downhill. Kate lost a lot of IQ points. Mags got thrown under the bus. The art went downhill. And now there's a rapey lesbian vampire thing? In space? And it's getting cancelled?

What the hell happened to this title?

I've been following this Batwoman since she first showed up, and I will be so sad if this is the note she gets rested on.

----------


## nepenthes

Question #2 is a Rucka book, in case you forgot  :Cool:

----------


## K. Jones

> Question #2 is a Rucka book, in case you forgot


I saw that cover earlier and gleeked out completely. Beyond the Cully art and his superior Huntress costume design ... I re-read Pipeline really recently, and 52 even more recently (obviously I'm constantly re-reading Morrison's Batman - the only other place that really held the standards of Rucka's Batwoman up after his Tec run). It's been an age since I read Half A Life. This just by nature of the characters involved is a sequel to all three of those stories. And FC: Revelations, I suppose.

I keep seeing and being distracted by all the goodies in the Convergence line-up but I think when all is said and done this is the one that's going to stick with me, just because it features Cavalieri-Huntress and Renee as The Question. I mean it's even thematically perfect as a two-parter with Two-Face, right?

Anyway, cover gleeked. I didn't expect Huntress and Batwoman to turn up.

I believe this is their first time appearing in the same place at the same time.

----------


## BatGlamorous

Rucka with Renee and Kate on the cover? Sold!

---

I've just realized that Batwoman is the only book from the initial launch that I've followed from issue one, and it's ending in two weeks. Kinda depressing. Let's hope there's something new for Kate in 2015.

----------


## LostinFandom

> Rucka with Renee and Kate on the cover? Sold!
> 
> ---
> 
> I've just realized that Batwoman is the only book from the initial launch that I've followed from issue one, and it's ending in two weeks. Kinda depressing. Let's hope there's something new for Kate in 2015.


Has the new JLU creative team been announced? As there isn't a new BoP or Batwoman in the May titles that seems a good guess as to where she could be appearing regularly for now. 

The Question cover with Batwoman and the Bertinelli Huntress guarantees I'll be buying that.

Controversial Opinion: I think Morisson's Batwoman worked against Rucka's plans (and involved a light straight washing).

----------


## electr1cgoblin

> Rucka with Renee and Kate on the cover? Sold!
> 
> ---
> 
> I've just realized that Batwoman is the only book from the initial launch that I've followed from issue one, and it's ending in two weeks. Kinda depressing. Let's hope there's something new for Kate in 2015.


I haven't seen anything ongoing advertised with Batwoman involved, whatsoever.

It's disappointing.  She's the first 'new' DC character I've gotten into in quite a while, and then the creators that sparked my interest in her left, the new team just didn't cut it, and now they've apparently put her in limbo.  That's mainstream comics, I guess.  I know everyone seems to favor Greg Rucka's version (and it might be great; I never read it) but I hope that SOMEONE out there cares enough about the character to do it justice again in the near future.  There's just too much potential there to let lie fallow and waste.

----------


## Vworp Vworp

Given the book's current sales, I'd assume we won't be seeing Kate for a while.  Certainly if Gail Simone's excuse/reason for the absence of Steph' back in the early days of the New 52 are to be believed.  When asked about DC's stance on Steph at that time, Gail posted the following response on her tumblr;




> "This sucks, but Stephanie's book was not at the sales level they were hoping for with a Batgirl logo on it.  This gets lost over and over in the timeline, but her book was already going to end before the new 52 thing happened. When that happens, there is usually a period where the character is deliberately held back for a while. It is NOT to be mean, honestly. It is to prevent bringing a character back in a method that doesn't change enough from what they were when they were cancelled.
> 
> There is even a not-too-pleasant term for it, "waiting for the smell to wear off.". If they don't do that, if they don't reposition properly, they are almost certainly setting that character up to fail again."

----------


## electr1cgoblin

> Given the book's current sales, I'd assume we won't be seeing Kate for a while.  Certainly if Gail Simone's excuse/reason for the absence of Steph' back in the early days of the New 52 are to be believed.  When asked about DC's stance on Steph at that time, Gail posted the following response on her tumblr;


Regrettably, that makes a lot of sense.  I tend to have a lot of favorites cancelled, and while I'd love to see them back again soon, it doesn't serve the character to just throw them out there again, only to fail and double down on the notion of their lack of marketability.  I've seen it happen, quite recently, in fact, and it's very disheartening.

Personally, I think Kate's next appearance should be in a team book, where she doesn't have the burden of carrying the whole book.  I thought she did fine with that in her own, but for newer readers who don't know her as well, it might be good to get the exposure without the responsibility, just for a while.  Once she's proven how interesting she is, then consider a relaunch, with the RIGHT creators.

----------


## Kurisu

The difference is Stephanie isn't half as popular as Kate, and she was benched because despite the outrage and campaigning that went on after her death, fans didn't support her return. Kate doesn't have that baggage, so I doubt that idea holds much weight here.

She also has two statues coming out this year, so her "stench" mustn't be too ripe.

----------


## Abishai100

A lesbian superhero surely draws our attention to the bold direction DC Comics writers are willing to take to reach wider audiences in the modern era.

Let's distinguish between Kathy and Kate, both of whom don the Batwoman mantel.  Kate experiments more with the dark side and is cast more as the representative lesbian, confounded by the ills of Gotham City and swearing to engage in acts of radical vigilantism.

Vigilantism is of course the main theme in Batman (DC Comics), since the Dark Knight often deals with the complex (and confusing) issue of criminal insanity (or mania/hysteria) and how it shockingly gives rise to mass terror in a city flooded by profiteers, mismanagement, daredevils, and crime syndicate bosses such as Black Mask.


=====

Let's position Kate/Batwoman in a mock trial involving Ra's al Ghul, Talia al Ghul, Two-Face, Man-Bat, and Nightwing:

"*Batwoman*: Vigilantism demands diligence and passion.
*Ra's*: Vigilantism implies a need for complete control.
*Talia*: Vigilantism mandates dialogue about self-governance.
*Two-Face*: Vigilantism is too dependent on mob psychology.
*Nightwing*: Batman would have wanted constant evaluation of tactics.
*Man-Bat*: Batman was naive, and we must be more vicious.
*Talia*: Do we want a lesbian representative?
*Batwoman*: Lesbians have the right attitude.
*Nightwing*: Since I am the judge, my verdict is that we need a formal council."

=====





 :EEK!: 

Seduction of the Innocent

batwoman.jpg

----------


## Starchild

Maybe they can put Kane in a relaunch Birds of Prey title.  Have her lead.

----------


## electr1cgoblin

Is everyone up to speed on what's happening in the monthly?  I guess it's all a bit moot now, but I'd still like to discuss the events there, if no one else minds.  There may be some spoilers (mild) so continue at your own risk.

***********SPOILER ALERT****************

I'm up to #38, and while I agree this run is not nearly as strong as the first one, I don't think it's flat out terrible.  I've never been a huge fan of planting Kate firmly in the supernatural world, but I do find myself intrigued by the concept of the "Unknowns" (though I doubt they'll ever be called such), and some of the cult plot is enjoyable, as well as the interaction of the group.

What I don't like (and I assume most fans agree) is the way Kate has really become passive in her approach to things.  Yes, I know she's been seduced/turned by Nocturna, so that's part of it, but even before that, her 'solution' to the relationship issues with Maggie was uncharacteristically passive, frustratingly so.  She seems at this point like a character who is letting life happen to her, rather than actively shaping it, and that's not the Kate I grew to like in the series.  Yes, she was a pawn of the DEO for a while, but even then she was raging against it and plotting ways to circumvent it.  Now she seems like a victim and I honestly hope she isn't written this way in the future.  

END SPOILERS

Thoughts?

----------


## LostinFandom

> Is everyone up to speed on what's happening in the monthly?  I guess it's all a bit moot now, but I'd still like to discuss the events there, if no one else minds.  There may be some spoilers (mild) so continue at your own risk.
> 
> ***********SPOILER ALERT****************
> 
> I'm up to #38, and while I agree this run is not nearly as strong as the first one, I don't think it's flat out terrible.  I've never been a huge fan of planting Kate firmly in the supernatural world, but I do find myself intrigued by the concept of the "Unknowns" (though I doubt they'll ever be called such), and some of the cult plot is enjoyable, as well as the interaction of the group.
> 
> What I don't like (and I assume most fans agree) is the way Kate has really become passive in her approach to things.  Yes, I know she's been seduced/turned by Nocturna, so that's part of it, but even before that, her 'solution' to the relationship issues with Maggie was uncharacteristically passive, frustratingly so.  She seems at this point like a character who is letting life happen to her, rather than actively shaping it, and that's not the Kate I grew to like in the series.  Yes, she was a pawn of the DEO for a while, but even then she was raging against it and plotting ways to circumvent it.  Now she seems like a victim and I honestly hope she isn't written this way in the future.  
> 
> END SPOILERS
> ...


I honestly thought she was much more passive in the DOE fights than with the current stories.  The plan to sabotage it all came about because her cousin and father sabotaged her and there were several issues where she was completely sidelined.

I think the Nocturna storyline is at least in part about mother issues. Maggie was the "good mother" figure, and when Kate messes up Maggie's relationship with Jamie she punishes herself by pursuing the "bad mother" Nocturna*. See the scene where Kate watches Nocturna from the courthouse window while awaiting news on Maggie's custody petition.  There's something self flagellating about the whole thing.

I'm less certain about her fugue states and what they have to with Nocturna.  (There mental connection was broken a few issues ago, so what it was, isn't what it is.) I get that they exist to give her some shared experience with her twin, but the root of it and the relation to her romantic life is harder to see.  I'm grateful for the emphasis on mothers. So often in these stories the mothers are mostly written out.  (It's one of my problems with the Selina Calabrese story, she has a father whose legacy she's upholding but no mother, because mothers aren't important.) 

The Unknowns are in part about setting up a new kind of family unit.  I can't picture either Rucka or Williams and Blackman going in this direction with Beth/Alice/Red Alice, and that's really necessary. The characters need to be open to new interpretations, or else they risk turning into pale imitations of themselves. (Rucka was doing a lot with doubling and replacing that I don't think anyone else could have brought to a conclusion.  See Beth/Bette, Kate having a step mother named Cathy, the whole "Cutter" plot.)

I really don't know where Morgaine Le Fey fits into this.  I can't even tell if this is supposed to be a variation on an earlier DC Comics Morgan Le Fey.  The only Morgaine Le Fey I've read in DC before was in _Madame Xanadu_, which would make some behind the scenes parallels. 

*I never read the original Nocturna story but came across a scan from it earlier where she's telling Bruce Wayne they should marry and adopt Jason Todd. Now I really think it's always about motherhood with her.

----------


## Kurisu

> It was mentioned that Batwoman will come back and they may even already be talking to people about it. MIDNIGHTER was not meant to fill a void.


http://www.comicvine.com/articles/ji...n/1100-151595/  :Smile:

----------


## Vworp Vworp

So other than the Bombshell version of Kate having some involvement in that upcoming project, have we had any news on DCU Kate returning since Didio and Lee made that typically vague and non-committal remark waaaay back in March?

----------


## Shimbo

> So other than the Bombshell version of Kate having some involvement in that upcoming project, have we had any news on DCU Kate returning since Didio and Lee made that typically vague and non-committal remark waaaay back in March?


I figure we may see her in something in the October solicitations. Eternal 2 might be launched then, and even though there are rumors it'll be Robin-centric, that's a good venue for her to show up in. Of course, I'd love to see her solo come up soon, but we might have to wait for a bit. It'll be interesting to see how they handle Kate when she does come back. Will they go with supernatural stuff or more street-level vigilante stuff? Time will tell, but Kate is too awesome of a character to stay in limbo for too long.

----------


## LostinFandom

> So other than the Bombshell version of Kate having some involvement in that upcoming project, have we had any news on DCU Kate returning since Didio and Lee made that typically vague and non-committal remark waaaay back in March?


Nothing thus far. I keep hoping she'll start to show up in _Detective Comics_ and whatever _Eternal_ take 2 is.

----------


## quinnzel

I really hope that Kate gets a relaunched series soon but one that has a cohesive direction and creative team. I'm a huge fan of the character and was trade-waiting the series and a while back when they started a new arc (in the same vein as Catwoman and Batgirl) I got really excited about the idea of buying it on the regular and adding it to my pull-list. But the storyline looked like a complete mess, so I passed it up. 

In my perfect world, Rucka didn't stop writing after Elegy, JH3 never left, and of course, Kate and Maggie got married.

----------


## Kurisu

A few comic bloggers with inside sources say a relaunch has been in the works for months and an announcement is imminent. This is, apparently, unrelated to the team book rumor that popped up around the initial post-Convergence announcement.

----------


## Kurisu

So, there's a Kate Easter egg in Arkham Knight. She leaves Bruce a voice mail about coming to she and Maggie's engagement party.  :Big Grin:

----------


## Project Initiative Cascada

> So, there's a Kate Easter egg in Arkham Knight. She leaves Bruce a voice mail about coming to she and Maggie's engagement party.


I wish she was actually in the game physically. Kate is long overdue for a proper media portrayal. She would've been a great addition to the playable characters in this game.

----------


## TheDarkKnightReturns

> I wish she was actually in the game physically. Kate is long overdue for a proper media portrayal. She would've been a great addition to the playable characters in this game.


I was hoping that she would show up in Batman AK sigh.

----------


## LostinFandom

> I was hoping that she would show up in Batman AK sigh.


I'm still hoping she'll be in _Batman vs Superman_. (Jena Malone not having a character credit yet gives me hope.)

----------


## quinnzel

> I'm still hoping she'll be in _Batman vs Superman_. (Jena Malone not having a character credit yet gives me hope.)


That would be awesome. I'm still wondering if she'll end up being Carrie Kelley, though.

----------


## byrd156

She had a brief cameo appearance in Son of Batman or the other horrible Batman animated movie, they were both awful so I try to forget that they exist. She was just unconscious in a dream sequence which sucked. In the new Animated movie universe the Batfamily is really small for some reason, it's really weird. Hopefully she will appear in some of the upcoming DLC for AK.

----------


## Immortal Weapon

When Kate returns to the limelight again I would like to see her familial relation to Bruce played up. There's some untapped potential there.

----------


## Shimbo

Batwoman's first appearance in the new DCYou will be in Batgirl Annual #3 out later this month! The Kate and Barbara team up is being drawn by Ming Doyle and she posted this on her twitter:

mingdoylebatwomanbatgirl.jpg

Could Ming Doyle be working on a Batwoman solo instead of Dark Universe? I could see her doing wonderful things with a Kate solo.

----------


## quinnzel

> Batwoman's first appearance in the new DCYou will be in Batgirl Annual #3 out later this month! The Kate and Barbara team up is being drawn by Ming Doyle and she posted this on her twitter:
> 
> mingdoylebatwomanbatgirl.jpg
> 
> Could Ming Doyle be working on a Batwoman solo instead of Dark Universe? I could see her doing wonderful things with a Kate solo.


That looks absolutely phenomenal. Very excited about this!

----------


## Shimbo

Link to a Newsrama interview with Ming Doyle about drawing the Batgirl and Batwoman team-up in Batgirl Annual #3:

http://www.newsarama.com/25062-proli...-annual-3.html




> My take on Batwoman is that she's quieter but also more physically powerful, a little more reserved but just a powerhouse full of packed tight danger. She's all quiet, uncanny consideration, but she's also got that femme fatale styling and a kick that will take your jaw right off.
> 
> She is so intense, I just love drawing her. Everything about her character design is genius. She's a dense shadow with flashes of knock-out white and slashes of red, and she will mess you up in one fell, elegant swoop.


Please, Mark Doyle, get this woman on a Batwoman solo now!

----------


## electr1cgoblin

Well, I like what Ms. Doyle has to say about the character, but I don't know if it's just the panels they chose to feature or my taste or what, but the art looks a bit...uninspired...to me.  (shrugs)  Maybe the rest of it's better, I hope so.

----------


## TheDarkKnightReturns

She is going to show up in an upcoming animated fIlm right ?

----------


## billee0918

She's set to appear in next year's Batman: Bad Blood animated movie

----------


## billee0918

This beauty showed up today (thanks Amazon Prime Day!)
Gorgeous statue, definitely getting a front and center spot.
Here's hoping Batwoman gets the relaunch she deserves, with a great team!

image.jpg

----------


## Triple J

*Batman: Bad Blood First Look*






> Chuck and Dexter alum Yvonne Strahovski (currently starring on ABC's The Astronaut Wives Club) will voice *Batwoman* (and her alter ego, Katherine Kane), while Gaius Charles (best known for Friday Night Lights and Grey's Anatomy and now appearing on NBC's Aquarius) plays *Batwing* and his alter ego, Luke Fox.


http://www.tvinsider.com/article/280...woman-batwing/

----------


## deathen

From the look of this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewr3oOSCEAI, there will be a scene in Bad Blood where Kate is on a date with a woman

----------


## Punisher007

Oh good.  I was wondering if they movie would acknowledge her Lesbianism at all.  Given that those movies aim to be(with mixed success) more "mature" PG-13 fare, if they were going to do it, then this would be the place.

----------


## AdvanceBushido

Did Batwoman get canceled?

----------


## Vworp Vworp

> Did Batwoman get canceled?


Way back in March, yep.  There have been rumours of a relaunch since then, but nothing's officially been announced.  Kate's only post-Convergence appearance so far will be to co-star with Batgirl in a short strip in the latter's upcoming annual.

----------


## Vworp Vworp

> A few comic bloggers with inside sources say a relaunch has been in the works for months and an announcement is imminent. This is, apparently, unrelated to the team book rumor that popped up around the initial post-Convergence announcement.


It's looking like those bloggers may want review their sources.

Three months later, with solicits now released until the end of the year and another big Bat-Event on the horizon and still mention of Kate in any significant role or book.  I guess we'll have to make do with Bombshell Universe Batwoman for the foreseeable future.

In the meantime...


http://edgarsandoval.deviantart.com/


http://daxiong.deviantart.com/


http://mindywheeler.deviantart.com/

----------


## The Whovian

> It's looking like those bloggers may want review their sources.
> 
> Three months later, with solicits now released until the end of the year and another big Bat-Event on the horizon and still mention of Kate in any significant role or book.  I guess we'll have to make do with Bombshell Universe Batwoman for the foreseeable future.
> 
> In the meantime...
> 
> 
> http://edgarsandoval.deviantart.com/
> 
> ...


Those are really cool

----------


## Project Initiative Cascada

> It's looking like those bloggers may want review their sources.
> 
> Three months later, with solicits now released until the end of the year and another big Bat-Event on the horizon and still mention of Kate in any significant role or book.  I guess we'll have to make do with Bombshell Universe Batwoman for the foreseeable future.
> 
> In the meantime...
> 
> 
> http://edgarsandoval.deviantart.com/
> 
> ...


Fantastic fan art. Kate looks gorgeous in all of them.

----------


## Project Initiative Cascada

A look at Batwoman in the upcoming Bad Blood film. I like it. I do hope she plays a huge role in this animation and is not just some minor supporting character. She deserves a huge role with this being her debut in the animated universe.

----------


## TheDarkKnightReturns

> A look at Batwoman in the upcoming Bad Blood film. I like it. I do hope she plays a huge role in this animation and is not just some minor supporting character. She deserves a huge role with this being her debut in the animated universe.


I hope so too so she can appear in the DCEU down the road alongside Batman.

----------


## Project Initiative Cascada

Does anyone know what Kate's status is right now? The last time I saw her in a comic was her guest appearance in Batgirl. I miss her dearly.

----------


## joybeans

> Does anyone know what Kate's status is right now? The last time I saw her in a comic was her guest appearance in Batgirl. I miss her dearly.


She's not in any of the main DC books, but she is in Bombshells.

----------


## Batgirlfan

Bad Blood was awesome, her appearances in Bombshells great. But with Rebirth coming up here I am hoping she is brought into say Batgirl and the Birds of Prey along with Cassandra Cain.

----------


## joybeans

Interesting twitter exchange. Some journalists are talking about the lack of Batwoman, and Geoff Johns brings up James Tynion

https://twitter.com/geoffjohns/statu...rc=twsrc%5Etfw

----------


## Godlike13

> Interesting twitter exchange. Some journalists are talking about the lack of Batwoman, and Geoff Johns brings up James Tynion
> 
> https://twitter.com/geoffjohns/statu...rc=twsrc%5Etfw


James Tynion underwhelms me, but Batwoman needs to be in a book so id take it. I quite enjoyed her in Bad Blood and its kind of crazy they're not trying again with. Plus I need more Alice. Though not sure if they are hinting that she is getting a book down the pike, or that she is just gonna be popping up in Hellblazer.

----------


## joybeans

Tynion is not a bad writer in the right circumstances, it's just that most of his stuff has been as a fill-in writer, a writer of a weekly (which will be a rushed mess by default), or while taking over someone else's mess. A Batwoman solo (assuming it gets announced a few months into Rebirth) might be Tynion's cup of tea. It's a solo book that doesn't need to tie in with other Batfamily books, and Tynion can play with either the supernatural or military aspects of Batwoman stories.

----------


## Batgirlfan

> James Tynion underwhelms me, but Batwoman needs to be in a book so id take it. I quite enjoyed her in Bad Blood and its kind of crazy they're not trying again with. Plus I need more Alice. Though not sure if they are hinting that she is getting a book down the pike, or that she just gonna be popping up in Hellblazer.


Looks like they were talking a bit about Kate but but mightve been a reply more so to the JSA or Titans, hoping it is in regards to Batwoman though.

----------


## Project Initiative Cascada

> Bad Blood was awesome, her appearances in Bombshells great. But with Rebirth coming up here I am hoping she is brought into say Batgirl and the Birds of Prey along with Cassandra Cain.


How would you like to see a cartoon adaptation of Elegy somewhere down the line? It would be nice to have a whole film that focuses on Kate and show the supernatural threats she faces, along with the introduction of characters like Beth Kane and Maggie Sawyer. Not to mention it'd be nice to have a film without the large focus on Batman once in a while.

----------


## DevilBat66

I would hope that Batwoman gets a feature in the new Detective Comics.

I'm pretty sure that having so many books bi-weekly that some of them will have back-up\ co features in them. It would be cool if she had a rotating feature or something if we can't have an ongoing.

I really don't want to see her stuck in some team book.

----------


## Styder24

> Looks like they were talking a bit about Kate but but mightve been a reply more so to the JSA or Titans, hoping it is in regards to Batwoman though.


Me too. I'm so eager for some new Batwoman comics.

----------


## Styder24

http://axeeeee.tumblr.com/post/132400273725



http://doodlesaresketcheswithnoodles...ese-days-heres

----------


## Chrysalis_Changling

so what's everyone think on her being on detective comics new bat team?

----------


## Chrysalis_Changling

> I would hope that Batwoman gets a feature in the new Detective Comics.
> 
> I'm pretty sure that having so many books bi-weekly that some of them will have back-up\ co features in them. It would be cool if she had a rotating feature or something if we can't have an ongoing.
> 
> I really don't want to see her stuck in some team book.


looks like they did what you didn't want and put her on a team book(which is what detective comics is now)

it's disappointing she doesn't have her own book and even more so that she's sharing the spotlight with Batman Red Robin Spoiler Cassandra Cain And The Wild Card Clayface

----------


## Caivu

> so what's everyone think on her being on detective comics new bat team?


At this point I'll take any main continuity book where she'll show up regularly. For about a six-month stretch she wasn't in anything but Injustice and Bombshells, and while I've liked both those series well enough, they're just not the same.

I'm interested to see how Kate's shift to being more team-oriented is handled.

----------


## Chrysalis_Changling

it feels weird that now all of kate's development will be done in a book where she has to share the spotlight with five other characters

----------


## heyevaxx

> so what's everyone think on her being on detective comics new bat team?





> looks like they did what you didn't want and put her on a team book(which is what detective comics is now). it's disappointing she doesn't have her own book and even more so that she's sharing the spotlight with Batman Red Robin Spoiler Cassandra Cain And The Wild Card Clayface


I'm excited! I don't know Kate well but I like that she'll be a very different female mentor compared to Babs/Oracle. I look forward to her Cass and Steph interaction.

I'm also real interested in the (mild) conflict that's coming with Bats: he wants solo training, she wants team building. Bruce doesn't partner well when mentoring and even in the Justice League he's frequently the obstinate/insistent one in a debate. Having him partner with Kate for these 3 teens should be fun.

About getting her own book, I've found that having your fave in a self title isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Cass: lost her Batgirl title to "make room" for the new Batwoman, Kate Kane. This according the inker for Batgirl. So, Cass is turned evil Post-OYL and made a villain for Robin. The rest is (very depressing) history.

Steph: she gets tortured to death and then returns at least in part to fan pressure. Steph gets Batgirl and it's canceled after 2 years. Oh well.

Azrael: I don't know why he was canned but after 100 issues he literally disappeared. They just found his costume and no body! A different Az appeared later.

Selina Kyle: her post Valentine sales tanked so badly she's been canceled after 23 years of having a monthly, self title or GCS.

So with the Rebirth Detective Comics I get 2 of my old faves as regulars and Az will at least guest in the first issue. And in an ensemble, there's less pressure on a single character to carry the load. If things don't go well, a character is more likely to take a break instead of turning evil, ascending into heaven, or getting canceled for whatever reason.




> At this point I'll take any main continuity book where she'll show up regularly. ... I'm interested to see how Kate's shift to being more team-oriented is handled.


Yes! I'll take regular appearances in a group over exiled to the bench like Cass was pre-BRE. I can't wait to see the Bats/Kate mentoring play out.




> it feels weird that now all of kate's development will be done in a book where she has to share the spotlight with five other characters


For Cass and Steph fans like me, having them back post-New52 is fantastic, even in an ensemble. The alternative was silence or editorial blocking writers from using them or just Futures End/Convergence alt reality stuff.

----------


## Chrysalis_Changling

i know what happened the last time i rode with DC Comics and I'm at the edge of dumping all my marvel stuff for rebirth books

Detective Comics having Batwoman is tempting me to take the plunge but i don't want to fall into DC's trap and find out it's just the same crap i escaped from during the new 52....

----------


## Project Initiative Cascada

> looks like they did what you didn't want and put her on a team book(which is what detective comics is now)
> 
> it's disappointing she doesn't have her own book and even more so that she's sharing the spotlight with Batman Red Robin Spoiler Cassandra Cain And The Wild Card Clayface


I am very excited that she will be in a team ongoing and be with her cousin, not to mention my other favorites Stephanie and Cassandra. Kinda hope she becomes a mentor and cadet with the young vigilantes.

As long as the writing is top notch and Kate is treated with respect, I will support this book.

----------


## The Whovian

> so what's everyone think on her being on detective comics new bat team?


I like it as long as they don't overuse her. In other words, they should all get equal billing, not counting Batman.

----------


## DebkoX

Are there any plans for a future Batwoman solo? Was sorely disappointed to return to comics and see its gone.

----------


## Badou

> Are there any plans for a future Batwoman solo? Was sorely disappointed to return to comics and see its gone.


Given that her last solo book ended because of low sales it is unlikely they give her another one soon. So it is best to follow the character in Detective for a while.

----------


## Chrysalis_Changling

i just really wish some of that supernatural weirdness from her solo book creeps into detective comics

----------


## DebkoX

> Given that her last solo book ended because of low sales it is unlikely they give her another one soon. So it is best to follow the character in Detective for a while.


Thats a damn shame ;l

----------


## Project Initiative Cascada

It will be hard to top the quality that J.H. Williams III and Rucka supplied with their Batwoman runs. You can definitely tell they genuinely cared about the character, and the stories and artwork had an effective kick to it. Andreyko's run was descent, but not great. 

I would love another Batwoman solo series, but the bar has already been set so high already. Hope some writer is willing to top it.

----------


## Caivu

> Andreyko's run was descent, but not great.


You are a far kinder soul than I.  :Big Grin: 

Bit of a tangent, but is anyone still reading Injustice? I started it because for a good six months or so it was one of the only places to get any Kate appearances, and I didn't really care whether it was an AU or not. It's an okay series for what it is, and Kate and most of the other characters are pretty accurate to their main universe counterparts from what I can tell. I like her in it because she so closely resembles the "real" Kate, so it's a bit of a downer that's she's almost certainly going to get killed off this Year.

----------


## Project Initiative Cascada

> You are a far kinder soul than I. 
> 
> Bit of a tangent, but is anyone still reading Injustice? I started it because for a good six months or so it was one of the only places to get any Kate appearances, and I didn't really care whether it was an AU or not. It's an okay series for what it is, and Kate and most of the other characters are pretty accurate to their main universe counterparts from what I can tell. I like her in it because she so closely resembles the "real" Kate, so it's a bit of a downer that's she's almost certainly going to get killed off this Year.


Did you read all the Andreyko run? I will admit from what I read (Which wasn't too much since I remained bitter about the previous creative team leaving), I wasn't too impressed with the generic vampire stories but I am biased enough to like anything with Kate staying somewhat true to in character.

And is she still in Injustice? I did drop the series long ago, but Batwoman was always a scene stealer in it. Loved that she was a part of the Birds of Prey and genuinely loved all the women in the group like family.

----------


## Caivu

> Did you read all the Andreyko run? I will admit from what I read (Which wasn't too much since I remained bitter about the previous creative team leaving), I wasn't too impressed with the generic vampire stories but I am biased enough to like anything with Kate staying somewhat true to in character.


I did, and though I kept reading just to see where things would go, I was pretty much done with things about halfway through the "Webs" arc. If that story had been half as long or had ended with Wolf Spider getting his teeth kicked in, I would've liked it better. But Kate having such difficulty dealing with a glorified cat burglar was ridiculous. By the time the vampire stuff rolled around I was convinced the series had jumped the shark.




> And is she still in Injustice? I did drop the series long ago, but Batwoman was always a scene stealer in it. Loved that she was a part of the Birds of Prey and genuinely loved all the women in the group like family.


The last two issues were pretty good quasi-focus issues for her, to the point that I was about 99% certain they were doing that to prep for killing her off; remind the audience how great she is so it'll be more impactful when it happens. And it's going to happen, but the when is back up in the air right now. It's even, based on some of the more recent solicits, looking like Batgirl's going to get offed before her, which would be surprising.

----------


## Chrysalis_Changling

i really think Kate's now in that situation where she's no longer good enough to hold her own title and has to share it with five other people because otherwise she'll fall into the void of obscurity

----------


## Chrysalis_Changling

bumping this to say I'm surprised nobody's posted since the july solicits were posted Detective Comics#936 solicit mentions batman's M.I.A. and batwoman takes over as leader of the group

----------


## Caivu

> bumping this to say I'm surprised nobody's posted since the july solicits were posted Detective Comics#936 solicit mentions batman's M.I.A. and batwoman takes over as leader of the group


That sounds _perfect_. So much potential for conflict. Her having to take charge of the group by herself get them to act as a unit to find Batman, when they all may not be on the best of terms... ahhhhh! This series hasn't even started yet and it already sounds so _good_.

----------


## Chrysalis_Changling

> That sounds _perfect_. So much potential for conflict. Her having to take charge of the group by herself get them to act as a unit to find Batman, when they all may not be on the best of terms... ahhhhh! This series hasn't even started yet and it already sounds so _good_.


yeah and add in the wildcard that is clayface and you got something that batwoman might not be able to handle

I Know an online buddy who is gonna get back into comics with DC Rebirth(He'll be Reading Superman/Action comics  i wasn't able to sell him on anything else sadly)and I'm gonna give him The Batman Info since I'll be reading Batman/Detective And He'll give me the superman info since He'll be reading Superman/Action

gonna make voice chat conversations much more interesting when we have comic book info to share that the other doesn't

----------


## beetlebum

Been a long time since I posted in my own thread.

[Sidenote: But I've been very busy running a few blogs on Tumblr, trying to finish my degrees, and completing all the necessary paperwork I need to become a caregiver. Hence why I don't post much on forums]

This aside, I will say that I was really disappointed with the end of Andreyko's run. I'd like to think that he was hampered with editorial mandates, and the whole thing in Nocturna just left an incredibly poor taste in my mouth. Actually, 'poor taste in my mouth' is an understatement. I still can't believe they went there with Kate and had Nocturna pretty much sexually assault her. I like Marc Andreyko, as he's a really nice guy (he once sent me free comics after all) but I still can't believe he wrote that. (However, I'd like to believe that the whole entire debacle wasn't entirely his fault.)

With that being said, I'm really looking forward to Rebirth. I want a new slate with Kate, and one where the events I mentioned above, will be retconned out of existence.




> i really think Kate's now in that situation where she's no longer good enough to hold her own title and has to share it with five other people because otherwise she'll fall into the void of obscurity





> bumping this to say I'm surprised nobody's posted since the july solicits were posted Detective Comics#936 solicit mentions batman's M.I.A. and batwoman takes over as leader of the group


I completely agree. I can't wait to see Kate as the leader of the group. I think she'd be perfect for the role, and as far as I'm concerned, July can't get here fast enough.

In addition to the fact that I'm going to Comic-Con (_which I'm super excited about!_), I can't wait to read Kate in Rebirth as well. I hope it's everything I expect it to be, and it will do Kate justice as she dishes out her own brand of justice, in Gotham.

----------


## Caivu

Haven't seen this discussed here yet, so why not?

What are everyone's thoughts on Kate's short hair in the new 'Tec? I really like it, and think it's appropriate since Rebirth's supposed to be a fresh start. A new look makes sense. But there's obviously some reason for it in-universe. Is she thinking of going back to the military, maybe?

----------


## Cowtools

> What are everyone's thoughts on Kate's short hair in the new 'Tec? I really like it, and think it's appropriate since Rebirth's supposed to be a fresh start. A new look makes sense. But there's obviously some reason for it in-universe. Is she thinking of going back to the military, maybe?


I wasn't aware of this. How short are we talking? Can you post a link?
I've always thought Kate looked at her most badass out of costume, with the bob.

Also, can anybody here give me a quick rundown on important events for Kate since JHW3 and Blackman left the book? I heard that she and Maggie broke up (ugh) but did anything else important happen?

----------


## Caivu

> I wasn't aware of this. How short are we talking? Can you post a link?
> I've always thought Kate looked at her most badass out of costume, with the bob.
> 
> Also, can anybody here give me a quick rundown on important events for Kate since JHW3 and Blackman left the book? I heard that she and Maggie broke up (ugh) but did anything else important happen?


Buzzcut, like military-style short. It's shown in these previews:

http://www.newsarama.com/29044-dc-re...omics-934.html

The biggest thing that happened besides the breakup was Kate getting hypnotized by a vampire and made into her sex slave. Yes, really.

Shortly before that she was seeing a psychiatrist because she came home beaten up after a patrol and scared Maggie's daughter; Maggie suggested that maybe some of the events of the previous year or so (combined with lingering stuff from seeing her mother get killed) had finally taken too much of a toll on Kate's mind and was causing her to make dumb mistakes.

She also teamed up with Clayface, Ragman, Jason Blood/Etrigan, and Alice. In space. Again, really.

----------


## Cowtools

> Buzzcut, like military-style short. It's shown in these previews:
> 
> http://www.newsarama.com/29044-dc-re...omics-934.html
> 
> The biggest thing that happened besides the breakup was Kate getting hypnotized by a vampire and made into her sex slave. Yes, really.
> 
> Shortly before that she was seeing a psychiatrist because she came home beaten up after a patrol and scared Maggie's daughter; Maggie suggested that maybe some of the events of the previous year or so (combined with lingering stuff from seeing her mother get killed) had finally taken too much of a toll on Kate's mind and was causing her to make dumb mistakes.
> 
> She also teamed up with Clayface, Ragman, Jason Blood/Etrigan, and Alice. In space. Again, really.


Yeeesh. Y'know, other than the vampire s**t, none of that sounds bad _in theory_ (even the space stuff, because why not?), but from your tone I can assume the execution was way off.

As for the hair, I'm down with it. I think it could be in character for her, especially after major trauma/break-up, to radically change her looks. Plus, she looks hawt.

----------


## berserkerclaw

Im fine with the short hair when shes kate. While its the same,color,it does somewhat help keeping a secret id.

----------


## Supernature

I'm very excited to see what kind of dynamic she'll have with those Batfamily members. Love the hair as well.

----------


## Bl00dwerK

New fan here. All I know about Kate is what I've seen in the animated stuff and want to get some comics. Is the New52 series worth buying? I know the art looks fantastic, but how's everything else?

----------


## ayanestar

> New fan here. All I know about Kate is what I've seen in the animated stuff and want to get some comics. Is the New52 series worth buying? I know the art looks fantastic, but how's everything else?


The New52 series was really good one of the best but only the beginning? I remember that I dropped it later on when they changed the creative team. I think it was around issue 26.

----------


## Bl00dwerK

> The New52 series was really good one of the best but only the beginning? I remember that I dropped it later on when they changed the creative team. I think it was around issue 26.


Thanks. What would you consider "required reading" for this character?

----------


## ayanestar

> Thanks. What would you consider "required reading" for this character?


'Batwoman: Elegy' is perfect for everyone who is new to Batwoman in my opinion.

----------


## Bl00dwerK

> 'Batwoman: Elegy' is perfect for everyone who is new to Batwoman in my opinion.


Thanks! I see a hardcover that's pretty reasonable...  :Smile:

----------


## Caivu

> Thanks. What would you consider "required reading" for this character?


I'll jump in here with:

Batwoman: Elegy (Detective Comics #854-#860)
Detective Comics #861-#863
Batwoman #0: Beyond a Shadow
Batwoman #0-#25, Annual #1
Batgirl #11-#13

----------


## Bl00dwerK

> I'll jump in here with:
> 
> Batwoman: Elegy (Detective Comics #854-#860)
> Detective Comics #861-#863
> Batwoman #0: Beyond a Shadow
> Batwoman #0-#25, Annual #1
> Batgirl #11-#13


Thanks. I think everybody's closed for Memorial Day, but I should be doing some ordering tomorrow!

----------


## Caivu

Not the biggest news, but kind of neat: Batwoman has been voted Character of the Month for June over on r/DCcomics. Good job, Reddit!

----------


## Lhynn

Dont know much about the character. Wasnt she one of batman chicks?

----------


## Caivu

> Dont know much about the character. Wasnt she one of batman chicks?


No. She and Batman are cousins, and she didn't receive any training from him at all. She was instead inspired by him during a directionless point in her life after being dismissed from the military.

The _first_ Batwoman, Kathy Kane, was a romantic interest of Batman's for a while.

----------


## Lhynn

I see. Is she any good in a fight? 
And do you recommend me to read her new stuff?

----------


## Caivu

> I see. Is she any good in a fight? 
> And do you recommend me to read her new stuff?


She's a formidable fighter, and IMO gets underestimated a lot. She's very strong and fast, but where she really shines is being phenomenally tough and pain-resistant. For example, she got stabbed in the heart, then pulled the knife out and threw it at the man who stabbed her, possibly killing him. She was out of the hospital in about a month, and willingly went off painkillers less than a week after getting stabbed.

Batwoman: Elegy is great, and the first 24 issues of her solo series are overall pretty good. After #24 the quality takes a sharp dive IMO, but there are some interesting character developments in the last 16 issues.

----------


## Lhynn

I see, sounds interesting, i may check out her stuff in preparation for detective comics.

----------


## DevilBat66

Really looking forward to 'tec. I hope it ends up being very Kate-centric since it's her only book.

----------


## Batman Begins 2005

> New fan here. All I know about Kate is what I've seen in the animated stuff and want to get some comics. Is the New52 series worth buying? I know the art looks fantastic, but how's everything else?


Batwoman: Elegy is brilliant and the best story.
Batman and Robin: Batman vs. Robin. It's Grant Morrison writing Batwoman!
Batman, Incorporated pre New 52 if you want more Morrison Batwoman.
Batwoman #0
Batwoman: Hydrology
Batwoman: World's Finest
Batwoman: This Blood is Thick

Batwoman #0 to This Blood is Thick is the New 52. STOP WITH THAT. The new creative team takes over and it's not good.

----------


## Batman Begins 2005

> Really looking forward to 'tec. I hope it ends up being very Kate-centric since it's her only book.


Here's hoping. Picking the first issue at least.

----------


## Bl00dwerK

> Batwoman #0 to This Blood is Thick is the New 52. STOP WITH THAT. The new creative team takes over and it's not good.


Thanks for the suggestions! When I order the New52 run I'll have to get the whole thing, though. I'm a completionist. I can't help it! BTW, my Kotobukiya statue came in today! It is *GLO-RI-OUS*!!!

----------


## Doctor Know

OK I just finished all 5 volumes of J.H. Williams' Batwoman. I know he left after issue #24, with his series ended on a cliffhanger but *how and what* issue is the D.E.O. scheme to unmask Batman resolved? I've heard the plot line was wrapped up hurriedly with Williams' departure as well.

----------


## Caivu

> OK I just finished all 5 volumes of J.H. Williams' Batwoman. I know he left after issue #24, with his series ended on a cliffhanger but *how and what* issue is the D.E.O. scheme to unmask Batman resolved? I've heard the plot line was wrapped up hurriedly with Williams' departure as well.


It's resolved in Annual #1. It's pretty rushed and has quite a few bits of bad characterization, but it ties everything up nicely.

----------


## Doctor Know

> It's resolved in Annual #1. It's pretty rushed and has quite a few bits of bad characterization, but it ties everything up nicely.


Thanks, mate.

EDIT TO ADD---

Just finished the Annual, and that was mediorce. The writing, art, and the exposition...






... for the plot lines and "twist" was clunky and rushed. All in all, Williams' run was a classic that got screwed by the editors in charge and weaker writing talent going forward.

----------


## Stormcrow

*Comicvine* has an interview with Dan Jurgens where he mentions that Maggie Sawyer will be back in Metropolis as part of the supporting cast for his _Action Comics_ run, so I guess now we can kiss her relationship to Kate goodbye for good...

----------


## Caivu

> *Comicvine* has an interview with Dan Jurgens where he mentions that Maggie Sawyer will be back in Metropolis as part of the supporting cast for his _Action Comics_ run, so I guess now we can kiss her relationship to Kate goodbye for good...


Sad but true. They might return to it eventually, but bringing it back now just because of Rebirth would be so pandering. I've been looking for a while for some kind of confirmation that they've at least made amends, but haven't found anything; as long as they're on fairly good terms still, it's fine.

----------


## Caivu

Kate's got herself a brand new, pretty comprehensive respect thread over on r/respectthreads!

https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthre...dc_comics_new/

----------


## MrMcMuffin

Yup, looks like her and Maggie are over...

----------


## Bl00dwerK

Who is talking in those other bubbles?

----------


## Caivu

> Who is talking in those other bubbles?


Her father.

----------


## Bl00dwerK

> Her father.


Makes sense. Thanks!  :Smile:

----------


## Oeternalis

So let's say I want to do a custom bind for Batwoman comics (two volumes), what do I need to put in it and in what order? I currently have the 6 collected volumes and Elegy is on the way. I'm thinking:
(Elegy) Detective Comic 859-860Detective Comic 861-863 (Looks like they were never collected, will need to track down floppies, are they any good?)Batwoman 0-24Batwoman Annual 1Batwoman 25-40Batwoman Annual 2Future's End Batwoman (for completeness sake even though it's terrible)

Is the stuff in 52 needed or interesting? Is so, where to put it?

----------


## Caivu

> So let's say I want to do a custom bind for Batwoman comics (two volumes), what do I need to put in it and in what order? I currently have the 6 collected volumes and Elegy is on the way. I'm thinking:
> (Elegy) Detective Comic 859-860Detective Comic 861-863 (Looks like they were never collected, will need to track down floppies, are they any good?)Batwoman 0-24Batwoman Annual 1Batwoman 25-40Batwoman Annual 2Future's End Batwoman (for completeness sake even though it's terrible)
> 
> Is the stuff in 52 needed or interesting? Is so, where to put it?



The Cutter arc is okay, pretty typical villain-of-the-week stuff. The end of it is a lead-in to the New 52 series.

Everything from 52 would go in order before Elegy. She's not in it a whole lot, but it does have her heart-stabbing, which is pretty important.

I'd recommend chronological order as best you can, but that could just be more confusing due to all the flashbacks and nonlinear storytelling. If so, to the best of my knowledge this is how it would go (with some bonus comics):

Batwoman 25

52 appearances

Detective 854-863

Batwoman 1-11 (bonus points if you untangle "To Drown the World" and put it in chronological order)

Batgirl 11-13

Batwoman 12

Batwoman 0

Batwoman 13-24, Annual 1

Batwoman 26-34

Batwoman 36-40, 35, Annual 2

Future's End

----------


## Oeternalis

What issues of 52 is she in?

----------


## Caivu

> What issues of 52 is she in?


7, 9, 11, 28, 30, 33, 34, 48, 52

----------


## Oeternalis

> (bonus points if you untangle "To Drown the World" and put it in chronological order)


I think I'll leave it as is, I quite like the non linear narrative.

----------


## Bl00dwerK

Is it just me or does Batwoman look like a vampire most of the time?

----------


## Caivu

> Is it just me or does Batwoman look like a vampire most of the time?


Nope, not just you. It's an intentional choice on the part of the artists. Redheads can have pretty severely pale skin, but hers is exaggerated to make her stand out visually. Same with her hair.

----------


## Bl00dwerK

> Nope, not just you. It's an intentional choice on the part of the artists. Redheads can have pretty severely pale skin, but hers is exaggerated to make her stand out visually. Same with her hair.


She looks fuckin' gorgeous. That new Detective Comics issue is a prime example. Man, she looks cool. I know Bats is the one everybody is super afraid of, but can you imagine seeing Kate swoopin' down on your ass?!

----------


## Atlanta96

> Nope, not just you. It's an intentional choice on the part of the artists. Redheads can have pretty severely pale skin, but hers is exaggerated to make her stand out visually. Same with her hair.


I like vampire Kate. I know some people complain that her exaggerated appearance takes them out of the story, but I don't really care. It looks badass, and it's no more ridiculous than the impractical outfits many characters wear.

----------


## Caivu

> I know some people complain that her exaggerated appearance takes them out of the story


I've heard the same. If some people don't like her, fine, but that's a very silly reason not to.

----------


## Atlanta96

> I've heard the same. If some people don't like her, fine, but that's a very silly reason not to.


By that logic they should hate any character with an abnormal appearance. Beast, Nightcrawler, Starfire, J'onn Jonzz, all inhuman looking so they must suck.  :Frown:

----------


## Stormcrow

JH Williams created such a unique look for Kate, it's one of the reasons I love her.

And also why I'm so annoyed with how she looks now in Detective Comics. Barrows can draw an amazing Batwoman, but wtf is that haircut on Kate?? She kinda looks like Rahne Sinclair now... Not a good look.



Hell, even the Kotobukiya Bishoujo statue included a mask-less face beacuse it was awesome:

----------


## Caivu

> JH Williams created such a unique look for Kate, it's one of the reasons I love her.
> 
> And also why I'm so annoyed with how she looks now in Detective Comics. Barrows can draw an amazing Batwoman, but wtf is that haircut on Kate?? She kinda looks like Rahne Sinclair now... Not a good look.


I like the bob, but the I'm fine with the buzzcut, too. New era, new look, whatever.

I'm starting to think the real reason they gave her such a drastic haircut is to make it more obvious that she's wearing a wig in-costume. I know of many readers who failed to catch that before, so I can see the same thing happening to new readers now.

----------


## Caivu

So, according to the concept art for "Night of the Monster Men," Kate's going to become a kaiju-type monster:

KateKaiju.jpg

And you know what? I say bring it on. It's not like this is a choice that'll stick, since if it happens she'll get healed, so whatever. It's little different from when she got affected with the Anti-Life Equation since she came back from that, and it certainly can't be worse that that horrible Future's End tie-in.

This is exactly the kind of silliness I want to see from that crossover.

----------


## Oeternalis

And here we were, all worried that the supernatural horror wouldn't be back  :Big Grin:

----------


## Caivu

> And here we were, all worried that the supernatural horror wouldn't be back


That's exactly what I was thinking. "She who fights monsters..." and all of that. Let's see it!

----------


## Punisher007

I love Kate's look as well.  The extremely pale skin is not only cool-looking in and of itself, but it contrasts REALLY nicely with the red hair and the red and black in her costume.  It gives her a really striking appearance.

----------


## Bl00dwerK

> I love Kate's look as well.  The extremely pale skin is not only cool-looking in and of itself, but it contrasts REALLY nicely with the red hair and the red and black in her costume.  It gives her a really striking appearance.


That it does. I recently got the Kotobukiya statue, which is really pretty, but it's missing the pale-skinned vampire look. I know it's an anime-esque figure, which is nice, but if I see a more comic-accurate statue I'm getting it!

----------


## Caivu

I'm really loving how nuanced Kate's role in 'Tec is so far. She's being a hard-ass, as she should be, but not to the point that she's ignoring the trainees' frustrations. She's itching to put the team into the field but recognizes that Bruce has to agree, as well; she reminded him last issue that they're equal in authority, and she seems to be willing to hold up her end of that partnership, to not go over his head on things. This is really good writing; Tynion's not flanderizing her into "tough drill sergeant lady," which is a minor worry I had. 

And I liked her evaluations of the team, they all seemed spot-on.

----------


## Bl00dwerK

I still haven't read the latest Detective Comics book. I need to take a day and catch up on everything.

----------


## Caivu

A pretty amusing production error in today's issue of Injustice (Year Five #29): Kate's wearing Barbara's batsuit. Brian Buccellato mentioned on Twitter it was just an oversight and that it wasn't caught in time due to the lettering comps being in black-and-white.

So now Kate is unofficially the third woman to serve as both Batwoman and Batgirl in at least one continuity (after Bette Kane and Cassandra Cain).  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Bl00dwerK

> So now Kate is unofficially the third woman to serve as both Batwoman and Batgirl in at least one continuity (after Bette Kane and Cassandra Cain).


Ha! Does that count?  :Big Grin:

----------


## Caivu

More Injustice news: next week it looks like Kate's going to be throwing down with Hawkgirl. I'm preparing myself for this to be where she dies, just in case.

----------


## Bl00dwerK

> More Injustice news: next week it looks like Kate's going to be throwing down with Hawkgirl. I'm preparing myself for this to be where she dies, just in case.


How much of a chance does Kate have against Hopgirl? I know HG was kind of a badarse in the Justice League cartoon...

----------


## Caivu

> How much of a chance does Kate have against Hopgirl? I know HG was kind of a badarse in the Justice League cartoon...


Well, Kate still has Kryptonian durability pills and a personal hatred of the Regime. The preview text for issue #32 reveals that the Insurgents are successful in capturing Cyborg, and the text for #34 indicates she'll be alive at least until then.

So I'm guessing she's going to kick Hawkgirl's ass. Hard.

----------


## Bl00dwerK

> So I'm guessing she's going to kick Hawkgirl's ass. Hard.


Sounds good to me!  :Smile:

----------


## WhipWhirlwind

So this sounds like it could be potentially awesome.

Batwoman rumored to be joining Supergirl




> Kathy Kane and her alter ego, Batwoman, will appear on Supergirl as a recurring role. She will be Maggie Sawyers ex, whose adventures as Batwoman occasionally take her to National City.
> 
> Barbara Gordon will also appear as Oracle (mostly so as not to have Batwoman AND Batgirl).
> 
> Babs will develop a strong friendship with Kara, Supergirl. The Oracle/Batwoman relationship is being modeled after the original Chuck Dixon Era Birds Of Prey, but with Kathy as the operative instead of Dinah.


Kind of a tough break for Dinah, but I get the switch, strength of the bat brand and all that.

----------


## darkseidpwns

It's a sad day when a move to CW is lauded because there are ultimately no opportunities elsewhere. This news pretty much falls in line with what the rest of DCTV,  they just try to get as many headlines and ratings boosts via crossovers, characters getting introduced or some other cheap stunt. When was the last time these shows were in the news for good story telling ? all I see is Gotham using Monster Men story line as an excuse to introduce as many Batvillains or over at Flash Jay Garrick being Hunter Zolomon being Henry Allen being time remnant being Black Flash or how about Arrow putting Felicity in a wheel chair only to have her walk out dramatically in time to end the relationship? not even going to bother with Hank Henshaw being Martian Manhunter WTF.

People will always love their favorite characters getting more exposure, I certainly wouldn't begrudge them for that but this news gets a big resounding meh especially if Babs gets put in to a wheel chair for no reason other than because Berlanti needed two Bat characters .

----------


## WhipWhirlwind

Yeah, i'll admit my "excitement" is simply at seeing live action version of these characters. Flash has had a few highs, but overall CW being the main source for DCTV isn't a strength.

----------


## Caivu

Edit: double post.

----------


## Caivu

I'd heard that rumor, which I found slightly distasteful because even though Maggie and Kate were a couple, it made it seem like Maggie couldn't stand on her own, like having Maggie requires Kate or something. Now it seems like this rumor is a lot more likely to be true.
I'm so torn on this. It'd be amazing to finally see Kate in live action, but Supergirl seems completely opposite of the ideal tone for her. Making her a Bird of Prey will be interesting, though. And if this is just a testing the waters thing before putting her in the DCEU, even better, but only of they get her mostly right.

----------


## Caivu

Well, the fight in today's Injustice went about as well as I could've hoped. I'll put it this way: if Batwoman's still alive for the final battle, she's gonna have a few Regime members gunning specifically for her.

----------


## darkseidpwns

> I'd heard that rumor, which I found slightly distasteful because even though Maggie and Kate were a couple, it made it seem like Maggie couldn't stand on her own, like having Maggie requires Kate or something. Now it seems like this rumor is a lot more likely to be true.
> I'm so torn on this. It'd be amazing to finally see Kate in live action, but Supergirl seems completely opposite of the ideal tone for her. Making her a Bird of Prey will be interesting, though. And if this is just a testing the waters thing before putting her in the DCEU, even better, but only of they get her mostly right.


I found the potential treatment that may be meted out to Babs to be even more shameful. They want both Babs and Kate because they're both Bat characters but cant be bothered to come up with something for Babs so she gets wheel chaired. Babs stuck in a wheel chair without any of her history= meaningless, but not like Berlanti/CW care.

----------


## Caivu

> I found the potential treatment that may be meted out to Babs to be even more shameful. They want both Babs and Kate because they're both Bat characters but cant be bothered to come up with something for Babs so she gets wheel chaired. Babs stuck in a wheel chair without any of her history= meaningless, but not like Berlanti/CW care.


That's a fantastic point.

----------


## Project Initiative Cascada

> So this sounds like it could be potentially awesome.
> 
> Batwoman rumored to be joining Supergirl
> 
> 
> 
> Kind of a tough break for Dinah, but I get the switch, strength of the bat brand and all that.


Kinda hard to believe that article when they are also referring to her as Kathy Kane over just Kate. Kathy is a completely separate character who only coincidentally has a similar name and has taken on the Batwoman mantle. 

And I agree that while I loved Kate and Maggie as a couple, we don't need those two together yet. Let Maggie develop as her own character without a big name attached to hers.

----------


## WhipWhirlwind

> That's a fantastic point.


Babs could still have her history though. If we've got a superman in this show we could also have a batman, even if he's never shown. Same with Joker.

----------


## Caivu

> And I agree that while I loved Kate and Maggie as a couple, we don't need those two together yet. *Let Maggie develop as her own character without a big name attached to hers.*


This. Maggie predates Kate by almost two full decades. I'm not super familiar with her before the New 52, but surely she did _something_ noteworthy in all that time, something the writers can pull from to establish her in the show.

----------


## Caivu

New interview where James Tynion drops some more hints about 'Tec: http://thebatmanuniverse.net/detective-comics-46/

But this part got me interested:




> *TBU:* Okay. So, now that we know that Kate’s father is the head of The Colony and his ideology is very different from Kate, how is she going to be able to go up against him and how is this going to affect her?
> 
> *James Tynion IV:* Oh, it’s going to affect her really deeply because in that incredible like Batwoman Elegy storyline by Rucka and Williams. It ended on that gut-wrenching moment where she found out that he’d been lying to her about Beth since she was 8 years old. That betrayal led to a real rift in them that they had only just begun to heal before she finds out about this other lie. The thing that I think is crucial in understanding those moments is that everything that Jacob has ever done has been to protect Kate and help her become who he thinks she has always wanted to become. It’s also really assumptive and wrong of him to be doing that, but I saw some people who like talking about that beat and worrying that Jacob is going to become like this cackling villain and all of that. That’s never the intention.
> 
>  You’re going to see in the next few issues, flashbacks to earlier moments in Kate’s life and how the relationship between Jacob and Kate Kane is so close to the heart of that character and the fact that everything Jacob has done, even the lines he’s been willing to cross, has all been in response to what happened to Kate’s mother and sister. That truth is always going to bond them, even though–even if it gets to a point where she can’t forgive him. That is a really interesting dynamic that I think is going to play out. It’s been playing out for years, and I can’t wait to dive that–to twist that knife a little harder and really get to the heart of, you know, what it’s like to truly love and care about someone, but also not be able to go with them anymore, to not be able to stand by their side. So, yeah.

----------


## Project Initiative Cascada

> New interview where James Tynion drops some more hints about 'Tec: http://thebatmanuniverse.net/detective-comics-46/
> 
> But this part got me interested:


How has Kate been so far in the New Detective Comics series? Has she and the young sidekicks been getting along fine?

----------


## Caivu

> How has Kate been so far in the New Detective Comics series? Has she and the young sidekicks been getting along fine?


She's being written very well IMO. After four issues shes not done or said anything I'd consider out-of-character.

She hasn't had much interaction with Clayface or Cass. Spoiler seems annoyed with her, but that's to be expected a bit, given the situation. The commander-lieutenant relationship she has with Tim is a highlight of the book for me. It's really nuanced and complex, especially since I had expected them to be a lot more argumentative with each other. Instead Tim is acting as a good advisor; he's smarter than she is, and isn't afraid to challenge her decisions in order to help her see a better course of action. But he also ultimately trusts her, because Batman does.

----------


## Caivu

So, Detective Comics #938 has one of the most succinctly perfect Kate Kane moments I think I've ever seen:

YASS.JPG

----------


## hotroddii

Has Kate been Rebirthed as Christian???

In the flashback in the most recent Detective comic, her mom's gravestone has a Christian cross on it.

I thought she was supposed to be Jewish? (Unless that's just on her dad's side!?)

----------


## Caivu

> Has Kate been Rebirthed as Christian???
> 
> In the flashback in the most recent Detective comic, her mom's gravestone has a Christian cross on it.
> 
> I thought she was supposed to be Jewish? (Unless that's just on her dad's side!?)


It was just an art error. The cross has since been changed to a Star of David in the digital edition and will be corrected for the TPB. She's still Jewish (though ambiguously devout).

----------


## The Whovian

> She's being written very well IMO. After four issues shes not done or said anything I'd consider out-of-character.


Agreed. She's been great.

----------


## Stormcrow

Detective Comics #941 variant cover! I love Albuquerque's Kate so much.

----------


## The Whovian

> Detective Comics #941 variant cover! *I love Albuquerque's Kate so much.*


I love all of his work. It's awesome!

----------


## Caivu

That's a beautiful cover.

I came across this interview, during the middle of which Tynion discusses Kate. Really exciting stuff in store, from the sounds of it:

http://comicsalliance.com/james-tyni...con-interview/

Some choice quotes:




> *CA:* In the area of queer presentation politics, I have to ask: what prompted, either in-text or out, Kate’s transition from a hard femme bob to a more butch, shaved look?
> 
> *JT:* We’ll be seeing Kate in more of the — I do like the high femme. There’s a moment in, I think it’s #943, where there was an initial outline of Kate in a more standard dress and it was just, “We got to boost this up” because that’s so much a part of Kate. …
> 
> I wanted to get at a raw form of Kate in formation. Something that would harken back almost to the idea of Kate at bootcamp, Kate at the beginning of her story, even though this isn’t Kate at the beginning of her story literally, it’s the beginning of a new chapter. That was something that it was a deliberate choice, but we will see her spirit coming out more through her fashion and style.





> *JT:* There are definitely different arcs that focus on different characters, but Batwoman will always be fairly front-and-center. The larger mystery behind the backbone of the series is very deeply tied in Colony and the secret battle between Colony and the League of Shadows, which will have ties to another character in the series — but those ties haven’t been revealed yet — so, Batwoman, just for simple plot purposes, she will remain front-and-center and her relationship with her father is something that will continue to drive the book.
> 
> ...
> 
> the impact of Batman is so core to this series and what it means to different characters, and especially what it means to Kate — and how Kate, in some ways, could be a better rallying symbol for this next generation of Bat-heroes, is something I’m very interested in exploring.


It is a fantastic time to be a Batwoman fan.

----------


## Stormcrow

I get his point, but Kate's hair remains my one gripe with the book... I just hate it, really miss the bob look.

And that cover just made me realize that Kate should be at this point the Bat-Family's expert in dealing with monsters, right? Hope that shows during Night of the Monster Men.

----------


## Alycat

> I get his point, but Kate's hair remains my one gripe with the book... I just hate it, really miss the bob look.
> 
> And that cover just made me realize that Kate should be at this point the Bat-Family's expert in dealing with monsters, right? Hope that shows during Night of the Monster Men.


Agreed. Every time she takes off the wig I just want her to put it back on. Like Kate being in the front, although still think it sucks that they shoved her and Tim into the same book.

----------


## Caivu

> I get his point, but Kate's hair remains my one gripe with the book... I just hate it, really miss the bob look.
> 
> And that cover just made me realize that Kate should be at this point the Bat-Family's expert in dealing with monsters, right? Hope that shows during Night of the Monster Men.


Aw, I love the hair, it's so badass. But you're not alone in not liking it, either.  :Smile: 

Yeah, supernatural and occult stuff is her bag. 
She's apparently going to turn _into_ one of the kaiju, which I think is good in a "she who fights monsters" sort of sense. It'd be great to see her regain control while still in kaiju form and start kicking monster ass.
I also really want there to be a quick line where Kate says something like "We _could_ call in Wonder Woman, y'know. I've got her on speed dial" as a reference to the end of the "World's Finest" arc.

----------


## Oberon

Previously said:

The larger mystery behind the backbone of the series is very deeply tied in Colony and the secret battle between Colony and the League of Shadows, which will have ties to another character in the series  but those ties havent been revealed yet  so, Batwoman, just for simple plot purposes, she will remain front-and-center and her relationship with her father is something that will continue to drive the book.

  I can only take this as a reference to Bette's upcoming appearance or role in this book. Out of all the characters, Bette is the one most likely to either know about Jake's plans, possibly being a part or dare I say, a mole (on her own - or with Bruce or Kate's awareness?)

----------


## Caivu

So, what are thoughts on Batwoman potentially joining the JLA? Steve Orlando does seem to be open to the idea:

LevelUp.JPG

As long as her reason for joining is good, I'd be okay with that. Or maybe she could be a reserve member. The current stuff going on in 'Tec could maybe warm her up to the idea. Maybe.
In any case, she's been fairly isolated from the rest of the DCU and having her spread her wings a bit would be a good thing.

----------


## Stormcrow

I'd be *really* okay with that and I'm sure Steve Orlando would do an amazing job writing her.

Loved her team-up with Wonder Woman back in her own series - probably the only arc I actually liked - she really needs to shine in the DC universe beyond Gotham already.

----------


## Caivu

> I'd be *really* okay with that and I'm sure Steve Orlando would do an amazing job writing her.
> 
> Loved her team-up with Wonder Woman back in her own series - probably the only arc I actually liked - she really needs to shine in the DC universe beyond Gotham already.


We'll get a glimpse of how Orlando can write her in just a few weeks, which is exciting.

I was actually thinking about this yesterday, but Wonder Woman is the only non-Gotham-associated character I think Kate has ever interacted with; not since the New 52 started at least. It's certainly not a long list.

----------


## Stormcrow

> We'll get a glimpse of how Orlando can write her in just a few weeks, which is exciting.
> 
> I was actually thinking about this yesterday, but Wonder Woman is the only non-Gotham-associated character I think Kate has ever interacted with; not since the New 52 started at least. It's certainly not a long list.


I think it would be fun to see her team-up with Supergirl too, given their mutual connection to Cameron Chase and the DEO. Funnily enough, a book also currently handled by Steve Orlando.

----------


## Frontier

> So, what are thoughts on Batwoman potentially joining the JLA? Steve Orlando does seem to be open to the idea:
> 
> LevelUp.JPG
> 
> As long as her reason for joining is good, I'd be okay with that. Or maybe she could be a reserve member. The current stuff going on in 'Tec could maybe warm her up to the idea. Maybe.
> In any case, she's been fairly isolated from the rest of the DCU and having her spread her wings a bit would be a good thing.


I wonder if Bruce would ask her to join the team so he could have someone from the family in the group to keep tabs on things for him?

----------


## Caivu

> I think it would be fun to see her team-up with Supergirl too, given their mutual connection to Cameron Chase and the DEO. Funnily enough, a book also currently handled by Steve Orlando.


That'd be interesting. She and Chase don't get along at all, and the last interaction they had was Kate kicking her across the face. Fireworks!




> I wonder if Bruce would ask her to join the team so he could have someone from the family in the group to keep tabs on things for him?


If it happens, that's close to how I imagine it going down. It'd have to be handled carefully, though; I don't think she'd be cool with being a mole, and joining would have to be her decision. Maybe she'll take her dad's suggestion of moving on to bigger things to heart, only she'll do so by not joining a rogue paramilitary group.

----------


## Stormcrow

Is that Kate in the Tim Sale variant cover for Batman #8?

----------


## Caivu

> Is that Kate in the Tim Sale variant cover for Batman #8?


Probably. Some of the characters are going to get transformed into kaiju during NotMM. Nightwing is another, supposedly.

----------


## Caivu

Well, over in the Injusticeverse, Kate's time is quickly running out. This week's issue could potentially be her last. I'm worried even though I've known this was going to happen for months.  :EEK!:

----------


## Caivu

Today marks the five-year anniversary of Batwoman's solo series debut. Currently the longest-running solo title lead by an LGBT character, if my info is correct.

Batwoman_Vol_2_1.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

> Today marks the five-year anniversary of Batwoman's solo series debut. Currently the longest-running solo title lead by an LGBT character, if my info is correct.
> 
> Batwoman_Vol_2_1.jpg


I remember reading this back then and how cool it was. Now she's kicking butt in 'Tec

----------


## Oberon

I loved the Batwoman comic, other than the final arc/issues - but I liked those, just not as much.

----------


## The Whovian

> I loved the Batwoman comic, other than the final arc/issues - but I liked those, just not as much.


Yep. When JHW3 left the book, it wasn't as good.

----------


## Stormcrow

Other than the magnificent artwork, I never really enjoyed Williams III and Blackman's run except for the Wonder Woman team-up arc.

It just felt endlessly decompressed and not very interesting overall, _To Drown The World_ was a mess and I didn't like how Kate allowed the DEO to own her like that, she should know better.

Of course it was a masterpiece next to Andreyko's terrible run, though.

----------


## Caivu

> Other than the magnificent artwork, I never really enjoyed Williams III and Blackman's run except for the Wonder Woman team-up arc.
> 
> It just felt endlessly decompressed and not very interesting overall, _To Drown The World_ was a mess and I didn't like how Kate allowed the DEO to own her like that, she should know better.
> 
> Of course it was a masterpiece next to Andreyko's terrible run, though.


The art is a bit of a problem in that sense, I agree. And TDtW tried out nonlinear storytelling for reasons I still haven't figured out. But Kate working for the DEO actually makes sense. It shows that despite how angry she is with her dad, she still doesn't want him to suffer in prison, so it adds some depth to that relationship, and to her character. It also means that Kate has access to DEO resources now, which she uses in her quest to find the missing kids she's after. And it's not like she just turns into their obedient little lapdog, she thumbs her nose at them on more than a few occasions, even going further and outright defying them several times.

----------


## Caivu

So, over in Injustice... *spoilers:*
Kate (and Barbara) might actually still be alive.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## millernumber1

> So, over in Injustice... *spoilers:*
> Kate (and Barbara) might actually still be alive.
> *end of spoilers*


I don't follow. Looked to me like 
*spoilers:*
Superman vaporized her with his heat vision?
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Caivu

> I don't follow. Looked to me like 
> *spoilers:*
> Superman vaporized her with his heat vision?
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
It's ambiguous, though. The last two times Superman heat-visioned anyone to death, it was _very_ clear they were dead. Plus there's no other confirmation within the comic itself. I'm just holding out on any sliver of hope, here.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## millernumber1

Ah, I see.  :Smile:

----------


## Stormcrow

Batwoman pinup by Rafael Albuquerque, from the “Love Is Love” comic.

So happy to see her in the spotlight for a cause like this one.

----------


## Caivu

Found something interesting. After Kate's apartment building was destroyed, she and Maggie buy another penthouse, which is only a few blocks away from the Old Wayne Tower, the building that would become the Belfry.
Top right corner:

RCO014 (4).jpg

From Batwoman #18

----------


## adrikito

I would like Batgirl seems more batwoman(something like before Burnside)... This is my opinion of Batwoman.. an admirable Woman.

The influence of Burnside became Barbara in a girl of 16 years(the possible age of Tim/Steph/Cass)... and she have 21..

----------


## Thirteen

Very pleased with the showing by Kate in this preview of BATMAN #8, I may have to pick this run up!  She seems to be working with Batman as a peer (in her mind at least) whether or not he acknowledges her as such.
*http://www.newsarama.com/31276-night...review.html#s1*

----------


## Caivu

Yes! I love that she's getting to fight some actual monsters again.
And I agree with what you said about them being "peers". That's an important word choice. One of the things I love about Kate is that she's never been about usurping Batman, or intentionally one-upping him or making him look bad. She understands that he has his stuff to do, and she has hers, and that they can coexist in Gotham. Plus that "I'm the best there is" idea would fly right in the face of her mentality as a soldier. It would also knock against Batman being her own inspiration.
The only thing I can think of that comes close is when she was tasked with capturing him, but that was a special case.
Anyway, yeah. Can't wait for Wednesday!

----------


## Styder24

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hea...0?sf38024560=1 


 :Smile:   :Smile:

----------


## The Whovian

> http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hea...0?sf38024560=1


Woohoo!! I just saw this! And Epting is doing the art!

----------


## Stormcrow

Some more details from Newsarama's NYCC coverage:

-It will be a globehopping adventure tracking down villains that have eluded the Bat Family
-The series will also explore the untold years mentioned in Rucka and Williams' run
-Bennett wants to bring the noir tone from Batman TAS into the book

Really excited about this, just hoping they get rid of the buzzcut already!

----------


## millernumber1

> Some more details from Newsarama's NYCC coverage:
> 
> -It will be a globehopping adventure tracking down villains that have eluded the Bat Family
> -The series will also explore the untold years mentioned in Rucka and Williams' run
> -Bennett wants to bring the noir tone from Batman TAS into the book
> 
> Really excited about this, just hoping they get rid of the buzzcut already!


Hmmm, very interesting! I hope those years are telling Beth/Alice's backstory - that's the biggest hole that I would like to see filled. The concept seems nice - I like it a bit more than the supernatural/horror stuff (which just didn't feel like Gotham to me, but I'm probably in a minority). Didn't watch TAS as a kid, so I don't have any real nostalgia for it, but I hope the tone is as dark and thoughtful as when Rucka was writing. Or at least a serious but fun as Tynion's stuff.

I am SO WITH YOU on the buzzcut.  :Smile:

----------


## darkseidpwns

Hopefully these villains will either be new or d listers that will require effort and build up from the writer because Ra's and Bane are the primary international Bat villains and I'd they rather fight Batman and not get jobbed to Batwoman.

----------


## Caivu

> Hmmm, very interesting! I hope those years are telling Beth/Alice's backstory - that's the biggest hole that I would like to see filled. The concept seems nice - I like it a bit more than the supernatural/horror stuff (which just didn't feel like Gotham to me, but I'm probably in a minority). Didn't watch TAS as a kid, so I don't have any real nostalgia for it, but I hope the tone is as dark and thoughtful as when Rucka was writing. Or at least a serious but fun as Tynion's stuff.
> 
> I am SO WITH YOU on the buzzcut.


Dagnabit, the buzzcut is beautiful, you all hush!  :Stick Out Tongue: 
In all seriousness, the premise sounds awesome. Noir and black-ops missions... yes please. I love the weird esoteric/supernatural side of Batwoman, but this seems like it'll really be honing in on Kate's skill as a soldier, which hasn't really been done, certainly not in detail. That sounds like a good way to keep things fresh. Also looking forward to seeing more of that slump period of her life, particularly how long it took for her to go from a star cadet to an utter wreck. And seeing more of her very early vigilante days... man. I'm excited.

----------


## Caivu

Batwoman has been confirmed to show up in the first arc of the upcoming Mother Panic series from Young Animal.

----------


## Frontier

> Batwoman has been confirmed to show up in the first arc of the upcoming Mother Panic series from Young Animal.


Socialites who moonlight as vigilante's have to stick together  :Cool: .

----------


## Stormcrow

It sure looks like Kate grew back her hair in these Detective Comics preview pages, yay! And more Montoya!

----------


## Caivu

> It sure looks like Kate grew back her hair in these Detective Comics preview pages, yay! And more Montoya!


I liked buzzcut, but nice to see the bob back! Fast hair regrowth is obviously Kate's superpower.  :Stick Out Tongue: 
And yes to more Renee!

----------


## Frontier

Is the bob cut another wig? Does Kate now have a Batwoman wig and another hair wig for when she's out in public  :Stick Out Tongue: ?

Cool seeing Bruce and Kate attending a gala/fundraiser/charity event together and dressed to the nines. Also neat seeing Luke there and doing his best Iron Man impression. 

Also great to see more Renee  :Smile: .

----------


## Caivu

In all seriousness, I hope the longer hair is just an artistic thing and doesn't actually mean that months have passed since the first arc. I really want to see Kate and Steph clear the air after the last arc, and having that happen long after would be odd.

----------


## millernumber1

> In all seriousness, I hope the longer hair is just an artistic thing and doesn't actually mean that months have passed since the first arc. I really want to see Kate and Steph clear the air after the last arc, and having that happen long after would be odd.


I'm with you - I don't want to leave things hanging and jump forward - that's just unhealthy relationship patterns, and I'd like to think that our heroes are better than that.

----------


## Caivu

Well, unfortunately the newest 'Tec seems to have skipped ahead a month...  :Mad:  And I didn't like Kate's reaction to Luke, since it struck me as out-of-character and overly rude anyway. Forced conflict, bleh. It's a small thing, but man.

On a more positive note, I like what Kate's doing so far. She's concerned about Bruce, which she would be, as he's one of the increasingly few family members she can trust. Even though he's fallen away from the team, Kate's not trying to keep the leadership position all for herself, she's trying to get him back. And she's concerned about Steph, because she knows what can happen when a young vigilante goes off on their own in a bad state of mind, which is what happened with Bette. I especially liked her suggestion to Bruce that the whole team needs to see therapists, because they _do_, and Kate actually _did_ see one for a brief time, so she knows what she's talking about.

Lots of good stuff here, aside from that flub with Luke.

----------


## Aahz

> Well, unfortunately the newest 'Tec seems to have skipped ahead a month...  And I didn't like Kate's reaction to Luke, since it struck me as out-of-character and overly rude anyway. Forced conflict, bleh. It's a small thing, but man.


It is especially odd if you consider Kates live between Westpoint and her Batwoman training.

And almost every rhing you can say about Luke would also apply to Tim (and maybe even Steph).

----------


## millernumber1

> Well, unfortunately the newest 'Tec seems to have skipped ahead a month...  And I didn't like Kate's reaction to Luke, since it struck me as out-of-character and overly rude anyway. Forced conflict, bleh. It's a small thing, but man.
> 
> On a more positive note, I like what Kate's doing so far. She's concerned about Bruce, which she would be, as he's one of the increasingly few family members she can trust. Even though he's fallen away from the team, Kate's not trying to keep the leadership position all for herself, she's trying to get him back. And she's concerned about Steph, because she knows what can happen when a young vigilante goes off on their own in a bad state of mind, which is what happened with Bette. I especially liked her suggestion to Bruce that the whole team needs to see therapists, because they _do_, and Kate actually _did_ see one for a brief time, so she knows what she's talking about.
> 
> Lots of good stuff here, aside from that flub with Luke.


I don't agree with Kate in today's issue, but I think Luke is intentionally being written as having gone a bit off the deep end having left the Batwing identity behind. I'm expecting Tynion to do excellent work with him, and with his relationship with Kate, going forward.

----------


## ProgmanX

> And I didn't like Kate's reaction to Luke, since it struck me as out-of-character and overly rude anyway. Forced conflict, bleh. It's a small thing, but man.





> I don't agree with Kate in today's issue, but I think Luke is intentionally being written as having gone a bit off the deep end having left the Batwing identity behind. I'm expecting Tynion to do excellent work with him, and with his relationship with Kate, going forward.


Mentioned this in the Tec 943 thread, but it feels right addressing this here as well. Regarding Kate's attitude towards Luke: 

I can see how one could think she's out of character at first glance, or being forced into this position, but I disagree. Kate's reaction to Luke reminds me of the way she tried to shut Bette down as a vigilante way back in Batwoman #3. Since she "didn't have what it takes". While Kate didn't truly believe that, and we find out just how much she _does_ "have what it takes" later on, she only did that to try and protect Bette from...pretty much exactly what the Hook did to her. 

The other part of that conversation, though, was about how Bette was basically just _playing_ at being a superhero. That she wasn't fighting _for_ anything. She was just sort of doing it, and at the time Kate was correct. Aside from wanting to be more like Kate, which really isn't a great justification. I have a feeling that this perceived lack of internal drive would be the biggest reason as to why she doesn't think Luke is a wise choice. 

She all but says that he's got nothing to fight for right before the bomb goes off, and while you don't _need_ to have experienced high levels of trauma to put on a mask...Harper support's Kate's attitude here with the fact that she's doing _more_ good as a normal person than she ever did as a vigilante. She did get back to that stuff with the electrical grid, after all. Last mentioned in Batman #12, I think? 

Anyway, think of vigilantism as analogous to acting as a profession. A common mentality within that community is that if you can do _anything_ else besides act, you should do it. Because the industry is just that intense, demanding and nightmarish. So, what Kate sees is a brilliant young man, with all of these credentials...who _played at being a superhero._ I don't think it's strange that she'd be distrustful of a person like that, since he represents the concept of wearing a costume even more literally than Bruce does. 

Kate wears a uniform; they don't. She's accepted that most everyone else operates with that mentality, even if she tries to hammer it out of their heads when she's able. But what Kate sees in Luke is a quite different. He's like a pro-wrestler who marches on stage in his shiny suit to impress everybody, but it's all fake in the worst of ways. 

From her perspective, he's undisciplined and unreliable. He's doing it because it's cool, not because it's right. Luke, apparently, gave up a ton of great job offers right out of college to do something more "fun", becoming an MMA fighter. Then he abandoned that to play superhero, and then dropped it once he got bored and started a tech company. Yes, it's extremely successful, but how long until he gets bored and goes to do something else? 

And to add on to that, anyone who reminds Kate of how Bette used to act is going to trigger some serious red flags for her, _especially_ after what happened to Tim. She might not have known him that well, but remember that this is the first time she's really had a fully functional unit to lead, train and command. And the first deployment they go on, she loses her second in command. So she's hurting from his death, too. Just...not in the most obvious of ways. Probably thinking about Bette a lot, as I've said.

Which just makes her think of her father, which isn't fun. 

Not saying Luke will half-ass anything, or that he is anything less than committed to helping his city, since we as readers know that to be most likely true. Kate, however, doesn't know that. And, in all fairness, she makes a valid point about what Luke appears to be doing with this fundraiser. He built it explicitly for the GCPD while he markets hyper-expensive bleeding edge non-lethal tech _during_ said event that they could only pay for if everyone at the fundraiser paid through the nose. They'd save time if they just handed their donations to Luke at the door.

At least, that's how I'm seeing all of this.

----------


## Caivu

^ After reading that explanation, I agree much more.

----------


## millernumber1

ProgmanX has best Kate meta  :Wink:

----------


## Caivu

Kate's entry in the updated edition of the DC Encyclopedia (sorry if it's small):

20161028_160132.jpg

----------


## JJ!

I like the dynamic between Batman and Batwoman, especially in the aftermath of Tim's "death." She's pushing Batman to talk about it because they need to talk about Stephanie's struggle to cope. I like how both are almost co-leaders of the squad (in Detective Comics.)

----------


## ProgmanX

...wait she's 5'_11_", not 5'10"? Okay, now all these height related art errors irk me even more. Unless Bruce is _always_ wearing 5-inch lifts in his shoes/boots, haha. Oh well, it's hardly the most important thing in the art department. But like, sometimes she wears heels, so she'd be 6'2" or 6'3" when dressed to the nines. That is _so tall_ and awesome. Nearly Diana's height. And where did you even find this? It's surprisingly comprehensive and current. That last line in particular. Nothing about her being Jewish, which isn't surprising, but they gave Renee a whole box so, win some you lose some, I guess.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

----------


## Caivu

> ...wait she's 5'_11_", not 5'10"? Okay, now all these height related art errors irk me even more. Unless Bruce is _always_ wearing 5-inch lifts in his shoes/boots, haha. Oh well, it's hardly the most important thing in the art department. But like, sometimes she wears heels, so she'd be 6'2" or 6'3" when dressed to the nines. That is _so tall_ and awesome. Nearly Diana's height. And where did you even find this? It's surprisingly comprehensive and current. That last line in particular. Nothing about her being Jewish, which isn't surprising, but they gave Renee a whole box so, win some you lose some, I guess.
> 
> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


It's from the newest (I think 3rd?) edition of the DC Encyclopedia.

There are some omissions and other small errors like that throughout. Like, this page says that Batwoman debuted in the 1950s, which is true, but fails to mention that that was _Kathy_ Kane, not Kate. Not technically wrong, just misleading. There's also no mention from what I saw of her familial relation to Bruce.

(And speaking of Wonder Woman, her height is given in this as 6 feet exactly, so it's not totally up-to-date, which is understandable)

Fun fact: Kate is the exact same height and weight as Charise Carnes (Knightfall), and the same height as Barbara Gordon.

----------


## Frontier

Huh, I would never think of Babs as being as tall as Kate (especially now), but interesting to know  :Smile: .

----------


## ProgmanX

> It's from the newest (I think 3rd?) edition of the DC Encyclopedia.
> 
> There are some omissions and other small errors like that throughout. Like, this page says that Batwoman debuted in the 1950s, which is true, but fails to mention that that was _Kathy_ Kane, not Kate. Not technically wrong, just misleading. There's also no mention from what I saw of her familial relation to Bruce.
> 
> (And speaking of Wonder Woman, her height is given in this as 6 feet exactly, so it's not totally up-to-date, which is understandable)
> 
> Fun fact: Kate is the exact same height and weight as Charise Carnes (Knightfall), and the same height as Barbara Gordon.


...aren't both Clark and Diana supposed to be 6'4" and Bruce 6'2"? And holy hell, okay, no, Barbara is like 5'5" at the most. Perfectly average. Even if the whole FBI thing isn't canon anymore---which stinks since I liked that a lot---she's not a tall woman. So they just copy-pasted some of this stuff, it seems. I was going to say that 141lbs is on the lowest end of a healthy weight for her height, and it should be around 155-160ish, I think? Accounting for muscle mass. 

And I thought it said in that thing that "much like her cousin Bruce..." etc. Right at the top. I think that infodumping stuff about Kathy Kane would've been too confusing, so just saying the mantle itself popped up in the 50s is fine. Plus, anyone reading that with even the smallest knowledge of American history would realize that in the 50s, Kate would have been _thrown in prison_ for homosexual misconduct if she were volunteering in a support role, not just discharged.

----------


## Caivu

> And I thought it said in that thing that "much like her cousin Bruce..." etc. Right at the top.


Welp, that's what I get for skimming! Thanks for pointing that out.

----------


## Aahz

The official height of the adults female Batfamily members are often off, Kate, Barbara and Hellena are all said in multiple books to be 5'11'' even if they are shorter than Dick who is only 5'10''.

----------


## ProgmanX

(Skip to *11:53* if it doesn't happen automatically)

The DCAbridged folks snuck this little Bad Blood teaser in after the credits of their Court of Owls Halloween Special. Parody or not, two lines in and this portrayal of Kate is _already_ heads and shoulders above the original adaptation. Its Batwoman, its flawless, and for Gods sake go watch the rest of their stuff its all beyond phenomenal and hysterical.

----------


## Caivu

Some Kate sketches from Claire Roe:

IMG_20161102_200701.jpg

----------


## millernumber1

> Some Kate sketches from Claire Roe:
> 
> IMG_20161102_200701.jpg


Oooh, very nice! Is Roe doing the holiday special part with her?

----------


## Frontier

> Some Kate sketches from Claire Roe:
> 
> IMG_20161102_200701.jpg


Kate's got some abs  :Wink: .

----------


## Caivu

> Oooh, very nice! Is Roe doing the holiday special part with her?


I hadn't even thought of that, but maybe. I like her version, it's the closest I've seen to what I picture Kate "actually" looking like (as in, if she were a real person).

Edit: I did a real quick, unpolished coloring job just for kicks.

IMG_20161102_200701.jpg

----------


## millernumber1

> Kate's got some abs .


My favorite part of Roe's work is the muscle work she puts into her characters. They look intimidating and sexy.  :Smile:

----------


## ProgmanX

> I hadn't even thought of that, but maybe. I like her version, it's the closest I've seen to what I picture Kate "actually" looking like (as in, if she were a real person).
> 
> Edit: I did a real quick, unpolished coloring job just for kicks.
> 
> Attachment 41356


I saw the original version on tumblr yesterday and was floored by it, specifically for the same reasons you pointed out. Flawless Kate, especially the lounging one. And damn, dude, it's amazing with the red. Nice work!

----------


## Caivu

> I saw the original version on tumblr yesterday and was floored by it, specifically for the same reasons you pointed out. Flawless Kate, especially the lounging one. And damn, dude, it's amazing with the red. Nice work!


Thank you!

----------


## Caivu

First peek at Batwoman's appearance in _Mother Panic_, courtesy of Tommy Lee Edwards:

BWMP.jpg

Likely from issue #3.

----------


## millernumber1

Man, I have the same reaction to Edwards's art that people seem to have to Roe's art. I love Roe's strong women, and her noses are distinctive, even though they take getting used to. But Edwards is just...ugly and undifferentiated, to me.

----------


## Caivu

> Man, I have the same reaction to Edwards's art that people seem to have to Roe's art. I love Roe's strong women, and her noses are distinctive, even though they take getting used to. But Edwards is just...ugly and undifferentiated, to me.


His coloring is where he really shines, I think, though I like the rest of it. And for something like Mother Panic, the garishness that his colors tend to lean toward coupled with the roughness of his pencilwork really work to the book's advantage. It not only looks distinct, but gives a lot of appropriate, unrefined atmosphere to everything.

As a side note, that panel could be from issue #2.  I just read an interview where Edwards said Batwoman will be in Mother Panic #2 and #3, and that the series will be divided into 3-issue arcs for at least the first 9 issues.

----------


## Caivu

Kate will have a short story in the upcoming _Love is Love_ (big surprise, right? And seriously, go buy a copy if you can, it's for a great cause), written by Amanda Deibert with art by Cat Staggs.

AD.JPG

Edit - I looked up some of Staggs's art, and she's drawn Batwoman before:

heroes09final.jpg

Hell yeah!

----------


## ProgmanX

> Kate will have a short story in the upcoming _Love is Love_ (big surprise, right? And seriously, go buy a copy if you can, it's for a great cause), written by Amanda Deibert with art by Cat Staggs.
> 
> AD.JPG
> 
> Edit - I looked up some of Staggs's art, and she's drawn Batwoman before:
> 
> heroes09final.jpg
> 
> Hell yeah!


I pre-ordered that book from IDW the second I was able; cannot wait to read it. But, I'm even more excited now! Stagg's art kinda reminds me of Alex Ross. Not quite as "hyper-realistic painting-y", but definitely a cool style. Now I just wish I knew who was writing her Chanukah Crisis (perfect title) story in the Holiday Special. And I kinda hope it's _not_ Tynion, as he's not Jewish.

----------


## Caivu

> I pre-ordered that book from IDW the second I was able; cannot wait to read it. But, I'm even more excited now! Stagg's art kinda reminds me of Alex Ross. Not quite as "hyper-realistic painting-y", but definitely a cool style. Now I just wish I knew who was writing her Chanukah Crisis (perfect title) story in the Holiday Special. And I kinda hope it's _not_ Tynion, as he's not Jewish.


Tynion is writing a Flash story for that.

Also, speaking of artists: Steve Epting is doing the art for Mighty Thor #13 and #14. Since this is recent work from him, and since Thor has a similar helmet shape to Kate's cowl (especially the face), and also has visible hair, we can get a small taste of what his Batwoman will likely look like.

Thor.JPG

Thor2.JPG

The answer is, "probably really cool."

----------


## ProgmanX

> Tynion is writing a Flash story for that.
> 
> Also, speaking of artists: Steve Epting is doing the art for Mighty Thor #13 and #14. Since this is recent work from him, and since Thor has a similar helmet shape to Kate's cowl (especially the face), and also has visible hair, we can get a small taste of what his Batwoman will likely look like.
> 
> Thor.JPG
> 
> Thor2.JPG
> 
> The answer is, "probably really cool."


I never realized that about Thor's costume. Damn, okay, that's _awesome._

----------


## Frontier

I didn't know that the _Love is Love_ book was even going to have actual DC characters in it. Cool  :Smile: .

----------


## ProgmanX

love9.jpg

I...am at a loss for words.

----------


## Caivu

The title for the first story arc of Batwoman's new series is called "The Many Arms of Death". That's a _badass_ title.

----------


## ProgmanX

> The title for the first story arc of Batwoman's new series is called "The Many Arms of Death". That's a _badass_ title.


Yeah, it is. And doesn't that sort of make it her _third_ "Rebirth"? I've been thinking about this a bit, and if you count "Rise of the Batmen" as her first---as you should since it brought her back to center _Quantum Leap_-style; put right what once went wrong etc---with "Batwoman Begins" being the pseudo-prequel/pilot to her solo book...the one-shot prologue makes three. I mean, yes, it's probably going to make perfect narrative sense for there to be this large an investment, especially considering the only _other_ character who got more than one was Harley, but at the same time---_what?!_

I'm nowhere near complaining but like seriously is this one long drawn out apology or something? Because the fact that she has exceeded _Barbara Gordon_ in exposure is extremely surprising.

Babs:
-Birds of Prey
-Batgirl
-Nightwing (cameos count)
-DC Super Hero Girls
-Bombshells (she was in that Annual)
-Injustice

Kate:
-Detective Comics
-Batwoman
-Nightwing
-Batman
-Bombshells
-Mother Panic
-Injustice (she got tossed into an alternate reality/forward in time about a few months let's be real)

Sorta just makes me chuckle all the more at "Batgirl: Year One". _Really_ should've named yourself, Babs.

----------


## joybeans

> Yeah, it is. And doesn't that sort of make it her _third_ "Rebirth"? I've been thinking about this a bit, and if you count "Rise of the Batmen" as her first---as you should since it brought her back to center _Quantum Leap_-style; put right what once went wrong etc---with "Batwoman Begins" being the pseudo-prequel/pilot to her solo book...the one-shot prologue makes three. I mean, yes, it's probably going to make perfect narrative sense for there to be this large an investment, especially considering the only _other_ character who got more than one was Harley, but at the same time---_what?!_
> 
> I'm nowhere near complaining but like seriously is this one long drawn out apology or something? Because the fact that she has exceeded _Barbara Gordon_ in exposure is extremely surprising.
> 
> Babs:
> -Birds of Prey
> -Batgirl
> -Nightwing (cameos count)
> -DC Super Hero Girls
> ...


To be fair, her appearances in Batman and Nightwing were just part of a crossover.

----------


## ProgmanX

> To be fair, her appearances in Batman and Nightwing were just part of a crossover.


Very true, yes, but that's more or less what Babs was doing in those early Nightwing issues. Just saying it's _weird._

----------


## Caivu

First glimpse of Ben Oliver's art from "Batwoman Begins":

BB.jpg

----------


## ProgmanX

> First glimpse of Ben Oliver's art from "Batwoman Begins":
> 
> BB.jpg


WHERE DID YOU FIND THIS ALSO oh my God it's happening

----------


## Caivu

> WHERE DID YOU FIND THIS ALSO oh my God it's happening


Off Twitter, but it was a repost. I have no idea where it originated.

Edit:
Found it, it's from Oliver's Instagram.

----------


## Caivu

I mostly opposed to Kate appearing on _Supergirl_ or any other CW show because tonally I think that would be a complete mismash, but Claire Roe is making me reconsider that a bit:

CyCqZZNXUAA-WoP.jpg

----------


## Frontier

It would be even more funny considering Maggie on that show feels like a composite of Maggie and Montoya  :Wink: .

Though I'm kinda pulling for Batgirl over Batwoman, at least for the first proper Batfamily appearance in Supergirl, personally...

----------


## Caivu

Yeah, Batgirl on CW would be okay. Batwoman needs something more akin to _Daredevil_ in tone.

----------


## Aahz

I think except Supergirl the tone of the CW shows could work for Kate.

For Supergirl Batgirl would be a better fit, and it is anyway a the more traditional team up (happended in pre crisis comics, in the DCAU and pre flashpoint in Stephs Batgirl run).

----------


## ProgmanX

> I mostly opposed to Kate appearing on _Supergirl_ or any other CW show because tonally I think that would be a complete mismash, but Claire Roe is making me reconsider that a bit:
> 
> CyCqZZNXUAA-WoP.jpg


I'm more concerned with the large group of people who want Alex to become Batwoman. I assume most of them don't realize just how much that _would not work_, especially since Alex is...a lesbian serving in what is basically the military. Also not Jewish, but a _cameo_ with Oracle would be awesome. Just like that fake rumor Bleeding Cool circulated before SDCC this year.

----------


## ProgmanX

> Yeah, Batgirl on CW would be okay. Batwoman needs something more akin to _Daredevil_ in tone.


And would probably do better on not-basic-cable. I'm not sure you could really capture how vicious she is on network TV. Not saying there should be GALLONS OF BLOOD, but there should probably a mandate for how many plate glass windows she dropkicks someone through every X episodes.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## The Whovian

> First glimpse of Ben Oliver's art from "Batwoman Begins":
> 
> BB.jpg


YES! This is going to be amazing!

----------


## vitaminbee

This is going to be a stunning book. Excited to come back to the character after JH Williams left her previous run.

----------


## The Whovian

> Yeah, Batgirl on CW would be okay. Batwoman needs something more akin to _Daredevil_ in tone.


EXACTLY! A Batwoman show like DD on Netflix would be so incredible!

----------


## 16 Bit

ok so can someone confirm if I have this correct?

Kathy Kane is the ex-wife of the now dead brother of Martha Wayne, Nathan Kane.
Kate Kane is the daughter of Jacob Kane, brother of Martha Wayne.
Cathy Kane is Jacob's new wife and has no connection to the super hero stuff.

Who is Betty/Bette Kane? Are they the same person? I haven't read Kate's solo series but apparently her past as Bat-Girl is referenced, how does this make sense?

----------


## Frontier

> ok so can someone confirm if I have this correct?
> 
> Kathy Kane is the ex-wife of the now dead brother of Martha Wayne, Nathan Kane.
> Kate Kane is the daughter of Jacob Kane, brother of Martha Wayne.
> Cathy Kane is Jacob's new wife and has no connection to the super hero stuff.
> 
> Who is Betty/Bette Kane? Are they the same person? I haven't read Kate's solo series but apparently her past as Bat-Girl is referenced, how does this make sense?


There was also Philip Kane, brother of Martha Wayne and the person running Wayne Enterprises before Bruce came back in Snyder's Zero Year.

----------


## ProgmanX

> There was also Philip Kane, brother of Martha Wayne and the person running Wayne Enterprises before Bruce came back in Snyder's Zero Year.


Philip was, afaik, the eldest sibling between Martha, Jacob and himself.

Additionally, Silver Age Kathy Kane was retconned out of existence (sort of) by making her the daughter of nazi supervilliain Otto Netz in Grayson.

Bette's history as Bat-Girl is not referenced, but her long tenure with the Teen Titans WAS. They are the same person, though.

----------


## Aahz

> Who is Betty/Bette Kane? Are they the same person? I haven't read Kate's solo series but apparently her past as Bat-Girl is referenced, how does this make sense?


Bette and Betty are the same girl she is also known as Elizabeth Kane and Mary Elizabeth Kane and was Bat-Girl, Flambird and Hawkfire (that depends all on the continuity). And she is Kates Bruce Cousin (and originally Kathys niece).

But to make it more confusing Elizabeth Kane is also the name of Kate's twin sister also known as Alice, who is a completely different character.

----------


## Caivu

A page for the new series from the DC Previews magazine:

Preview.jpg

And a sketch from Steve Epting:

SEBW.jpg

My only quibble here is the lack of a full noseguard.

----------


## Caivu

Kind of a small thing, but one of the stories in today's Batman Annual confirms that Kate still celebrates Hannukah. I know that's kind of a "well, duh" sort of thing, but her Judaism has been in the backseat for a pretty long time, so seeing it referenced again before her story in the upcoming Holiday Special was nice.

----------


## darkseidpwns

Uh cant read the page, caught a glimpse of Nolans LOS being mentioned. How exactly is it Nolans League when Bane and the Al Ghuls are the only named characters to be part of the Nolan version and all are busy in other books. Besides the Shadows name was utilized by Timm in animated DC verse.

----------


## ProgmanX

> Kind of a small thing, but one of the stories in today's Batman Annual confirms that Kate still celebrates Hannukah. I know that's kind of a "well, duh" sort of thing, but her Judaism has been in the backseat for a pretty long time, so seeing it referenced again before her story in the upcoming Holiday Special was nice.


I posted about this in the Annual thread but yeah this was very sweet. Plus, Alfred went all out on those things! How mangs did he even _make_?! And all of them with her bat-logo on 'em. I bet she saw some Bat-Christmas ornaments and this popped into her head. That being said, I hope we get some mention of Yom Kippur in the future. 

It's already happened, presumably after Jacob was thrown into the Belfry holding cells, so I'd love to hear a reference to that one time Kate made sure he wasn't fed nine days after he received an apple with dipping honey as extra food. _Force_ him to reflect, because damn that'd send one strong message. Not willing to talk to him, but not willing to take his faith away...even if he's not that observant, he'd know what it meant.

----------


## Caivu

> Uh cant read the page, caught a glimpse of Nolans LOS being mentioned. How exactly is it Nolans League when Bane and the Al Ghuls are the only named characters to be part of the Nolan version and all are busy in other books. Besides the Shadows name was utilized by Timm in animated DC verse.


It's more to do with people apparently not realizing that the LoS from Nolan's films _was_ the League of Assassins. They just changed the name for the movies. The LoS from the comics is a separate (but related) group with the same name.

----------


## Caivu

Didn't see this posted in here yet:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/14012...zTL&ref=plSrch

A new collection of Rucka's entire Batwoman run from Detective Comics. So that's Elegy plus the last 3 issues of the "Cutter" arc, which haven't been collected in anything previously. I know Steph's Batgirl run has its first volume out the exact same day, and I've heard Cass and Red Robin volumes might not be too far behind, so it looks like the whole current cast of 'Tec is getting some reprinting love, which is awesome.

And even better, this collection is out just one day before Kate's 11th anniversary!

I do hope that's not the final cover, though...

----------


## Frontier

Cool to hear  :Smile: .

----------


## Caivu

I wrote a thing.

----------


## millernumber1

> I wrote a thing.


Excellent thing! I especially liked the way you pointed out continued continuity - with the Batgirl Annual (which I hadn't noticed) and Kate bringing up the mental health of the team in Tec (which I did). I liked that element of the Andreyko run as well (though not quite as much as I liked the Alice stuff, but neither of them made up for just how bad and dull the whole thing was).

----------


## Caivu

> Excellent thing! I especially liked the way you pointed out continued continuity - with the Batgirl Annual (which I hadn't noticed) and Kate bringing up the mental health of the team in Tec (which I did). I liked that element of the Andreyko run as well (though not quite as much as I liked the Alice stuff, but neither of them made up for just how bad and dull the whole thing was).


Thank you. I'm considering making regular Batwoman-related posts over there leading up to her new series. A "primer for new readers" sort of thing, ideally.

----------


## Caivu

First glimpse of Batwoman VS Mother Panic in _Mother Panic_ #3:

BatwomanVSMotherPanic.JPG

I really hope this is a good fight, even if Kate loses. It's been a while since she's had a proper, one-on-one scrap with someone.

----------


## ProgmanX

> First glimpse of Batwoman VS Mother Panic in _Mother Panic_ #3:
> 
> BatwomanVSMotherPanic.JPG
> 
> I really hope this is a good fight, even if Kate loses. It's been a while since she's had a proper, one-on-one scrap with someone.


This is going to be really interesting. If Kate wins, it establishes that Violet's lack of experience is still very apparent even though she has Super Strength. Since she's such a new character, this wouldn't change anything about our perception of her. We know she's fresh to this vigilante thing, and Kate putting her in her place (though not without a ton of swearing and lots of blood) as opposed to Batman...well, that's much more interesting. 

On the other hand, if Kate LOSES, and they don't pull it off just right, there's a big risk of Violet being propped up by tearing Kate down. So that's a concern. Yet, what I want most of all is for Kate to start dropping F-bombs. 

I know she technically can't in a regular comic because ratings reasons, but I always found it weird as hell that she didn't curse ALL THE TIME. Even casually. It just makes sense for her to be that kind of person, I dunno. Maybe I'm just hoping that stereotype of Spec Ops soldiers swearing up a storm rubbed off on Kate when she was training with the Crows. It sounds so fun!

----------


## Caivu

> This is going to be really interesting. If Kate wins, it establishes that Violet's lack of experience is still very apparent even though she has Super Strength. Since she's such a new character, this wouldn't change anything about our perception of her. We know she's fresh to this vigilante thing, and Kate putting her in her place (though not without a ton of swearing and lots of blood) as opposed to Batman...well, that's much more interesting. 
> 
> On the other hand, if Kate LOSES, and they don't pull it off just right, there's a big risk of Violet being propped up by tearing Kate down. So that's a concern. Yet, what I want most of all is for Kate to start dropping F-bombs. 
> 
> I know she technically can't in a regular comic because ratings reasons, but I always found it weird as hell that she didn't curse ALL THE TIME. Even casually. It just makes sense for her to be that kind of person, I dunno. Maybe I'm just hoping that stereotype of Spec Ops soldiers swearing up a storm rubbed off on Kate when she was training with the Crows. It sounds so fun!


Yeah, this is where the series might write itself into a corner a bit. We know Violet isn't going to be aprehended for any significant period of time, so Kate won't capture her, meaning Kate likely loses... but if that happens, the whole Batfamily is going to be gunning for Violet, and we also know they won't play a major role in the series. So I dunno. What I'm thinking is that Kate gets her ass beat, but later says something to Bruce along the lines of "She could've killed me, but didn't, so I don't think she's bad. Let's keep an eye on her, though."

I won't mind Kate losing as long as it's a _fight_, y'know? She can lose without getting Worfed. I'm thinking we'll see some new feature of Violet's suit come into play that turns things in her favor.

----------


## Caivu

Early look at Detective Comics #948, and it looks great:

http://www.cbr.com/detective-comics-948-preview/

This cover also caught my eye:

BATWOMAN-1-CVR.jpg

Looks like Renee and Julia, and then that badass woman with the knives at the very bottom. New ally or villain? I don't recognize her. I hope she's a villain, 'cause she looks like a pretty solid opponent for Kate to tussle with.

----------


## 16 Bit

art looks cool. Very excited.

----------


## Caivu

I made some mockups of what the final Rebirth one-shot and the #1 covers could look like.

BW1_2.jpg

BW1_1.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Variant cover for 'Tec #949 by Rafael Albuquerque.

IMG_20161212_195049.jpg

----------


## Caivu

A really good character beat in 'Tec #946:

Screenshot_20161214-143805.jpg

Later, it's revealed that Luke gave Kate a blocker for the anti-fear-toxin, which Kate claims not to have needed. Rather than that being bravado talking, I think she was telling the truth. Look at what Madame Crow says the effects of the toxin are, what type of fear it removes. Kate doesn't operate on that kind of (and I would argue not on any type of) fear, so it doesn't effect her anyway. Really cool.

----------


## ProgmanX

> A really good character beat in 'Tec #946:
> 
> Screenshot_20161214-143805.jpg
> 
> Later, it's revealed that Luke gave Kate a blocker for the anti-fear-toxin, which Kate vlaims not to have needed. Rather than that being bravado talking, I think she was telling the truth. Look at what Madame Crow says the effects of the toxin are, what type of fear it removes. Kate doesn't operate on that kind of (and I would argue not on any type of) fear, so it doesn't effect her anyway. Really cool.


I _adored_ that beat. There's never been an inclination that she operates on a fractured psyche. All about service and duty. She could totally stop if there were a better alternative for her. Whether or not she would is up for debate, but still...

----------


## Caivu

So, the Batwoman story from the Holiday Special... it kinda sucked, right? It's not just me?

I was mostly irritated by Kate's voice in it; she sounded more like Barbara. The repeated references to pie were pretty annoying, too. She didn't sound dry enough, if that makes sense. 

And Kit? Who's that? What does the two years things she mentioned refer to?

----------


## Frontier

> So, the Batwoman story from the Holiday Special... it kinda sucked, right? It's not just me?
> 
> I was mostly irritated by Kate's voice in it; she sounded more like Barbara. The repeated references to pie were pretty annoying, too. She didn't sound dry enough, if that makes sense. 
> 
> And Kit? Who's that? What does the two years things she mentioned refer to?


I thought it was a harmless, fun, one-off. Not my favorite of the holiday stories, but I didn't mind reading it, and the art was very nice. 

Where did you get Kate sounding more like Barbara from?

----------


## Caivu

> I thought it was a harmless, fun, one-off. Not my favorite of the holiday stories, but I didn't mind reading it, and the art was very nice. 
> 
> Where did you get Kate sounding more like Barbara from?


I agree, it's pretty harmless, just irritating.

The specific line that made me think of Barbara was (and I'm paraphrasing since I can't remember it exactly) "You owe somebody $2.95 and fond memories!", referring to her slice of pie that got ruined in the shootout at the beginning. Even for a lighter story, that doesn't sound like Kate. It's not the kind of quip she'd do. Hers are more along the lines of minor puns and Bond-esque one-liners, and even those are occasional.

----------


## ProgmanX

> I agree, it's pretty harmless, just irritating.
> 
> The specific line that made me think of Barbara was (and I'm paraphrasing since I can't remember it exactly) "You owe somebody $2.95 and fond memories!", referring to her slice of pie that got ruined in the shootout at the beginning. Even for a lighter story, that doesn't sound like Kate. It's not the kind of quip she'd do. Hers are more along the lines of minor puns and Bond-esque one-liners, and even those are occasional.


It _does_ sound more like something Barbara would say, you're right. She'd be a little more self-aware at how silly this kind of thing can be. Plus, there's that whole, uh, mind reading thing that _definitely_ doesn't bring up horrifying trauma at all. And it's the most non-Jewish Hanukkah story ever. Like, she had nine damn pages, including a double page spread (did anyone else get one???) and the best they could get was Kate trying to eat pie and mope about her dad. Hanukkah is literally a war story that ends in a miracle; it would have been the easiest thing to make something super simple out of that. 

Or, I dunno, something absurd like a flashback where Jacob actually _does_ pitch the story of the Maccabees as an absurdly over-the-top modern action movie where Kate is the star for some reason---he can be a doting father once in a while! Or, even simpler, make it a snarky meta-commentary about how the "Holiday Season" is mandatory, how exhausting that can be, and it just so happens that Hannukah lands on Christmas this year, so it's even more pervasive. Simpler still: Catherine tries not to be overbearing or awkward for once in her damn life while they're making latkes. It doesn't work because Jacob's been sorta missing for like a month or more at this point and dancing around that has just been _so much fun_ for Kate.

Honest to God, it feels like they set aside nine freaking pages for Kate, put her first on the solicitation to help promote her, and couldn't find a good writer to fill it.

----------


## Caivu

> Or, I dunno, something absurd like a flashback where Jacob actually _does_ pitch the story of the Maccabees as an absurdly over-the-top modern action movie where Kate is the star for some reason---he can be a doting father once in a while!


Holy crap, that would make _so much sense_ given the role Jacob was preparing Kate for. He would totally have done that when she was younger.

----------


## ProgmanX

> Holy crap, that would make _so much sense_ given the role Jacob was preparing Kate for. He would totally have done that when she was younger.


...or, maybe there wasn't anything nefarious about it and he wanted to tell a story where his daughter is the hero? Actually, it would have been pretty devastating if the flashback showed he did that with Kate AND Beth, and we cut to the present and neither of them are there anymore.

----------


## Caivu

> ...or, maybe there wasn't anything nefarious about it and he wanted to tell a story where his daughter is the hero? Actually, it would have been pretty devastating if the flashback showed he did that with Kate AND Beth, and we cut to the present and neither of them are there anymore.


Yeah, that does sound a bit more self-serving than I wanted, now that you mention it. Having it be when Beth was still around would've been yet another good choice, since in addition to the reasons you mentioned it would've given her a face to new readers before she eventually shows up again.

----------


## Caivu

Not to keep harping on her Holiday Special story, but I just noticed someone else saying this and didn't see it brought up here. 
Kate's eyes in that story were blue:

Screenshot_20161224-025954.jpg

IMG_20161224_030031.jpg

Like, c'mon now. I ordinarily wouldn't care about or even notice something like that, but when eye color becomes an actual plot point... then yeah, it's important to get right in subsequent appearances.

----------


## ProgmanX

> Not to keep harping on her Holiday Special story, but I just noticed someone else saying this and didn't see it brought up here. 
> Kate's eyes in that story were blue:
> 
> Screenshot_20161224-025954.jpg
> 
> IMG_20161224_030031.jpg
> 
> Like, c'mon now. I ordinarily wouldn't care about or even notice something like that, but when eye color becomes an actual plot point... then yeah, it's important to get right in subsequent appearances.


Yeah, completely agree. IIRC, there are still uncorrected eye coloring mistakes in a few pages of Batwoman vol 1, though they're far less noticeable in the trade release. #20s intervention scene seemingly mitigated this by making everyone a dark turquoise, but that could be a printing error, tbh. Anyway, the ones that first popped up in the _Elegy/Go/Cutter_ run _were_ fixed for the trade. Pretty sure Gabi had blue eyes for a panel or two, as did Beth in the flashbacks. Eye color is something I notice _a lot_, for whatever reason, and this happens very often with redheads. It's more rare for Kate, for the reason you specified, but for Barbara Gordon it's increasingly silly.

Half the colorists think she has green eyes, and the other half think she has blue. Sometimes they can't decide and it changes from page to page, or even panel to panel. But they're _blue_ lol

EDIT: Even so, back on topic, this could point to a fundamental lack of understanding of Kate's character. Her logo and how her cowl/hood/helmet works changes depending on the artist, and while that is weird it's just par for the course. This is something else.

----------


## Frontier

> Not to keep harping on her Holiday Special story, but I just noticed someone else saying this and didn't see it brought up here. 
> Kate's eyes in that story were blue:
> 
> Screenshot_20161224-025954.jpg
> 
> IMG_20161224_030031.jpg
> 
> Like, c'mon now. I ordinarily wouldn't care about or even notice something like that, but when eye color becomes an actual plot point... then yeah, it's important to get right in subsequent appearances.


Eye color is one of the most inconsistent things in comics. 

I'll at least say I still think the art is pretty  :Stick Out Tongue: .

----------


## Caivu

'Tec #947 confirms that Kate's suit is _not_ electrically insulated, which IIRC has never been addressed before now.

Screenshot_20161226-103149.jpg

----------


## ProgmanX

> 'Tec #947 confirms that Kate's suit is _not_ electrically insulated, which IIRC has never been addressed before now.
> 
> Screenshot_20161226-103149.jpg


An argument can be made for both, tbh. Steph could have exploited a potential weakness in the taser gloves, using that to transfer the charge into her suit's internals and thus Kate. It seems absurd that if she's running around with enhanced tasers, she wouldn't be insulated from it.

Plus, it makes Steph look smarter

----------


## Caivu

> An argument can be made for both, tbh. Steph could have exploited a potential weakness in the taser gloves, using that to transfer the charge into her suit's internals and thus Kate. It seems absurd that if she's running around with enhanced tasers, she wouldn't be insulated from it.
> 
> Plus, it makes Steph look smarter


I looked closer at the image, and I think you might be right, even though Steph doesn't mention the tasers. Kate's glove has wires on it again, leading to the contact points on the knuckles. I can't recall those being there in Rebirth until now.

----------


## ProgmanX

> I looked closer at the image, and I think you might be right, even though Steph doesn't mention the tasers. Kate's glove has wires on it again, leading to the contact points on the knuckles. I can't recall those being there in Rebirth until now.


To my knowledge, that's a little detail that's been overlooked. Also, the gloves and gauntlets are seperate pieces, so that probably helped.

And mentioning the tasers isn't necessary, I'd say. The important part is that it's not Wolf Spider bullshit this time lol

----------


## Caivu

> To my knowledge, that's a little detail that's been overlooked. Also, the gloves and gauntlets are seperate pieces, so that probably helped.
> 
> And mentioning the tasers isn't necessary, I'd say. The important part is that it's not Wolf Spider bullshit this time lol


So if they're bothering to have them appear now, that mean's she'll more than likely use them. Hmm...

----------


## ProgmanX

> So if they're bothering to have them appear now, that mean's she'll more than likely use them. Hmm...


She hasn't exactly had a chance to use them much before now. The Colony had fully body armor, then monsters, and she had safer alternatives with ranged weaponry/the team when facing the VS. Madame Crowe is more rule of cool, I'd bet.

----------


## Frontier

I'd always just assumed every Batfamily suit has complete insulation as a general safety rule...

Well, except Batgirl  :Stick Out Tongue: .

----------


## Caivu

Lots of good stuff this week.

In _Mother Panic_ #2, Kate disses Violet's suit:

Q3E6kip.jpg

I hope she does it to her face before or during their fight next issue.

And in Detective Comics, this made me really happy:

Luke.JPG
Appreciate.JPG

Kate and Luke becoming friends is something I'm really looking forward to.

----------


## Caivu

Detective Comics #949 cover:

IMG_20161228_221955.jpg

First look at Kate's new rogue!

----------


## Frontier

> Detective Comics #949 cover:
> 
> IMG_20161228_221955.jpg
> 
> First look at Kate's new rogue!


Looks like the Arkham Knight.

----------


## Caivu

> Looks like the Arkham Knight.


The Colony's infantry all do, even more than this guy. He's supposedly a high-ranking member who isn't happy that Kate was apparently being groomed to take the top spot. He'll be a fun one for her to tangle with.

----------


## Frontier

> The Colony's infantry all do, even more than this guy. He's supposedly a high-ranking member who isn't happy that Kate was apparently being groomed to take the top spot. He'll be a fun one for her to tangle with.


I know, it just sticks out more on this guy 'cause he's pointing a gun at the cover (which is a very Arkham Knight thing to do)  :Stick Out Tongue: .

----------


## Caivu

Mother Panic #3 variant cover by Mingjue Helen Chen:

MPvsBW.jpg

Here's hoping this fight is awesome.

----------


## millernumber1

> Mother Panic #3 variant cover by Mingjue Helen Chen:
> 
> MPvsBW.jpg
> 
> Here's hoping this fight is awesome.


That is some awesome art! I'm very curious to see if Violet starts showing up in the mainstream titles, too, sort of like how Jessica Jones did over in Marvel after her Max line ended.

----------


## Caivu

> That is some awesome art! I'm very curious to see if Violet starts showing up in the mainstream titles, too, sort of like how Jessica Jones did over in Marvel after her Max line ended.


I hope not for a while, but for right now an Easter egg would be good, like a shot of her on the Batcomputer or something. Or some other oblique reference.

----------


## Frontier

> Mother Panic #3 variant cover by Mingjue Helen Chen:
> 
> Attachment 43130
> 
> Here's hoping this fight is awesome.


Oh! I didn't know Helen Chen was doing DC variants. 

Cool  :Smile: .

----------


## Thirteen

> Mother Panic #3 variant cover by Mingjue Helen Chen:
> 
> Attachment 43130
> 
> Here's hoping this fight is awesome.


My first real look at the Mother Panic character.  I wonder if they intentionally evoke the other Mysterious Batwoman before Kate?  White suit, glider and all...

----------


## Caivu

> My first real look at the Mother Panic character.  I wonder if they intentionally evoke the other Mysterious Batwoman before Kate?  White suit, glider and all...


Interesting idea. I know that from the moment I first heard of her, Violet sounded waaaaay too much like Kate for it to be a coincidence. So maybe this is an oblique reference to the animated Batwoman and thus yet another layer to it.

----------


## Red obin

As someone who has had little exposure to Batwoman, I am really enjoying her in 'tec and her fight against the victim syndicate and their anti fear gas was really good, I am picking up her next arc in tec and I am going to try and get her first solo series issue.

One more thing though in Bad Blood she is called by other people Katie(pronounced kat-ee) not Kate(pronounced Kate like gate), have I been reading her name wrong? Was it a nickname? Were they deviating form canon?

----------


## Caivu

> As someone who has had little exposure to Batwoman, I am really enjoying her in 'tec and her fight against the victim syndicate and their anti fear gas was really good, I am picking up her next arc in tec and I am going to try and get her first solo series issue.
> 
> One more thing though in Bad Blood she is called by other people Katie(pronounced kat-ee) not Kate(pronounced Kate like gate), have I been reading her name wrong? Was it a nickname? Were they deviating form canon?


In the comics, if she was called Katie, it was usually when she was a child IIRC. The only person who called her Katie (or "Katey") as an adult that I can think of was Nocturna, who was an abusive piece of shit. 

She's mostly just called Kate. The movie took some liberties with her, including that. Not strictly wrong, just different from the comics.

Also, if you've not read Elegy, I recommend starting there.

----------


## Stormcrow

> Mother Panic #3 variant cover by Mingjue Helen Chen:
> 
> Attachment 43130
> 
> Here's hoping this fight is awesome.


I'm not reading Mother Panic, but it seems like I will have to start ASAP because there's not way I'm missing out on that cover.

----------


## Caivu

> I'm not reading Mother Panic, but it seems like I will have to start ASAP because there's not way I'm missing out on that cover.


I'd recommend it! It's very character-centric and mysterious, with a unique tone. With every new thing revealed about Violet, a few more questions pop up. It's great.

Plus, y'know, a Batwoman fight next issue.

----------


## Caivu

A couple pieces by Nicola Scott:

NicolaBatwoman.jpg

NicolaBatwoman2.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

> A couple pieces by Nicola Scott:
> 
> NicolaBatwoman.jpg
> 
> NicolaBatwoman2.jpg


Nice! I like his work

----------


## Caivu

> Nice! I like his work


_Her_ work, you mean.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Mutant God

A random thought here, has she ever fought the Mad Hatter? because I could see him calling her the Red Queen who is messing up his plans. lol

----------


## Stormcrow

> A random thought here, has she ever fought the Mad Hatter? because I could see him calling her the Red Queen who is messing up his plans. lol


I don't think she has yet, I'd love to see what he'd do if he met Beth - the one woman who actually buys into the whole Alice thing. Kate acting as the Red Queen in that dynamic would be fun to see.

----------


## The Whovian

> _Her_ work, you mean.


Sorry. Yes, her.  :Smile:

----------


## Caivu

A new progress image from Kate and Violet's fight:

IMG_20170107_165858.jpg

_So. Excited._

----------


## Caivu

Batwoman and Wonder Woman by Steve Epting:

IMG_20170109_161017.jpg

He posted a "sketch" a while back that turned out to be part of the cover to Batwoman #1, sooo... fingers crossed that this is something official.

----------


## The Whovian

> Batwoman and Wonder Woman by Steve Epting:
> 
> Attachment 43587
> 
> He posted a "sketch" a while back that turned out to be part of the cover to Batwoman #1, sooo... fingers crossed that this is something official.


Oh man, this is going to be awesome!

----------


## ProgmanX

> Batwoman and Wonder Woman by Steve Epting:
> 
> Attachment 43587
> 
> He posted a "sketch" a while back that turned out to be part of the cover to Batwoman #1, sooo... fingers crossed that this is something official.


"World's Finest II" oh fuck yeah! It's like Rucka^2!

----------


## Frontier

> Batwoman and Wonder Woman by Steve Epting:
> 
> Attachment 43587
> 
> He posted a "sketch" a while back that turned out to be part of the cover to Batwoman #1, sooo... fingers crossed that this is something official.


...Wish Diana didn't have the sword and shield, which is about the only complaint/nitpick I have here  :Stick Out Tongue: .

----------


## Caivu

Another fight panel from Mother Panic #3:

IMG_20170109_194504.jpg

I'm not sure what's happening here, but Kate doesn't look like she's on the winning end of things.  :EEK!:

----------


## millernumber1

> Another fight panel from Mother Panic #3:
> 
> IMG_20170109_194504.jpg
> 
> I'm not sure what's happening here, but Kate doesn't look like she's on the winning end of things.


I'm sad to say I still can't see what's happening in this sketch...

----------


## Caivu

> I'm sad to say I still can't see what's happening in this sketch...


The two possibilities I have right now are:

1. Kate is throwing a kick

2. Kate is getting tossed off a ledge

The first seems more likely given the apparent orientation of the page, but I dunno.

----------


## Stormcrow

Really hope that Steve Epting pic means a Kate/Diana reunion, it's been way too long!

----------


## darkseidpwns

> "World's Finest II" oh fuck yeah! It's like Rucka^2!


I thought Worlds Finest refers to Batman/Superman family team ups, shouldn't it be Batwoman and Superwoman?

----------


## ProgmanX

> I thought Worlds Finest refers to Batman/Superman family team ups, shouldn't it be Batwoman and Superwoman?


The arc that Batwoman and Wonder Woman teamed up was called "World's Finest", so that's what I was referencing. I guess technically Brave and the Bold would've made more sense? Doesn't---OH that's why she called her "Batwoman the Brave"! Just got that. 

I dunno if a Lana Lang team-up would make much sense. She's an engineer/reporter and has Captain Marvel (Carol Danvers) powers. Not really sure what Kate could bring to the table aside from intel and all that jazz.

----------


## Caivu

More from Mother Panic #3:

20170110_212902.jpg

Screenshot_20170111-091019.jpg

----------


## millernumber1

> More from Mother Panic #3:Screenshot_20170111-091019.jpg


I like that second panel a lot. First one feels a bit too generic.

----------


## Caivu

> I like that second panel a lot. First one feels a bit too generic.


The first one, I'm guessing, is Batwoman revealing herself to Violet from the shadows, which is why it's less defined and why her hair's not visible.

----------


## Stormcrow

ICYMI, Tynion and Bennett did an interview round on Comicosity, Comicvine and ComicsAlliance talking in length about the "Batwoman Begins" two-parter that started in today's Detective Comics as well as her upcoming solo series.

The relationship between Kate and Julia sounds like it will be a lot of fun, can't wait!

----------


## Caivu

Neat callback in 'Tec #948 to #861:

Screenshot_20170112-013213.jpg

Screenshot_20170112-013431.jpg
Screenshot_20170112-013458.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Variant cover for Batwoman: Rebirth #1 by Jae Lee:

Screenshot_20170113-163457.jpg

I don't think I like it.  It's an odd pose and her arms look too spindly.

----------


## ProgmanX

> Variant cover for Batwoman: Rebirth #1 by Jae Lee:
> 
> Attachment 43771
> 
> I don't think I like it.  It's an odd pose and her arms look too spindly.


Looks...bad. It just looks bad. That's gonna turn people off of the book if all they see is the variant cover on the rack and don't know better.

----------


## millernumber1

> Looks...bad. It just looks bad. That's gonna turn people off of the book if all they see is the variant cover on the rack and don't know better.


Jae Lee is a very distinct, highly recognized artist. I don't really like their style that much, but I think they've got some clout. Eh.

----------


## ProgmanX

> Jae Lee is a very distinct, highly recognized artist. I don't really like their style that much, but I think they've got some clout. Eh.


Clout or no, the average person won't know that.

----------


## The Whovian

> Variant cover for Batwoman: Rebirth #1 by Jae Lee:
> 
> Attachment 43771
> 
> I don't think I like it.  It's an odd pose and her arms look too spindly.


Yeah, I normally like Jae Lee's art, but this cover looks weird.

----------


## Stormcrow

> Yeah, I normally like Jae Lee's art, but this cover looks weird.


Same here. I had pre-ordered the variant cover, but I might just have to see if it's possible to switch to the regular one.

----------


## Caivu

Even _more_ Batwoman in Mother Panic #3: 

IMG_20170112_112348.jpg

----------


## Stormcrow

Advance solicitation for Batwoman #2, seems like it'll now be $3.99 as well... Kinda wish the villain would have a more memorable name, but at least she looks interesting!

*BATWOMAN #2*

Written by MARGUERITTE BENNETT and JAMES TYNION IV  Art and cover by STEVE EPTINGVariant cover by J.G. JONES

The Many Arms Of Death part two! The criminal haven of Coryana has changed completely in the years since Batwoman left! The biggest change of all? Her closest friends are now her enemies  or theyre corpses! Its time for Kate Kane to cut to the heart of whats happening here, and find out who brought the deadly bioweapon Monster Venom into Coryanabut she might get her own heart cut out in the process, by the unbeatable assassin known as the Knife!

On sale APRIL 19  32 pg, FC, $3.99 US  RATED T+

----------


## Caivu

Oh _hell yes._ Gorgeous cover, and I'm so glad that Kate's got a new villain. I don't even mind her name. The reference to cutting out her heart is totally a Religion of Crime thing. So excited!

Edit: It also sounds like there are going to be at least three plotlines right from the start. Kate's past re-emerging, the bioweapon plot, and dealing with knife. Awesome.

----------


## The Whovian

I'm just glad that she has a book and the artist is Epting. This book is going to be great.

----------


## darkseidpwns

Maybe she'll fight the spoon next and then fork and finally the plate.

----------


## Caivu

> Maybe she'll fight the spoon next and then fork and finally the plate.


Oh, you're better than that easy joke.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Caivu

Here's something really cool.
I run a Batwoman fandom Twitter account (basically, it's like this thread but on Twitter), and one of my followers, @ravensdottir, was kind enough to share some info from a con appearance that JHWIII gave a while back. During it, he went into some detail about what the future of Batwoman would've been if he and Blackman hadn't left. He talked about plans all the way out to issue #30.

Here are the notes @ravensdottir took, which she has given me permission to share:

Screenshot_20170118-131048.jpg

Screenshot_20170118-131110.jpg

----------


## Caivu

And these:

Screenshot_20170118-131019.jpg

Screenshot_20170118-131142.jpg

Really interesting stuff.

----------


## Stormcrow

Thanks for sharing! I never cared for their take on Killer Croc, but the Alice stuff sounds pretty great. Would have been sooo much better than the mess Andreyko made of her.

Such a shame that we never got to see Bill Sienkewicz doing that story...

----------


## Frontier

Yeah, I'll say the Alice stuff was interesting but they kinda lost me on the Killer Croc stuff...

----------


## millernumber1

> Yeah, I'll say the Alice stuff was interesting but they kinda lost me on the Killer Croc stuff...


Same.  :Smile:  I thought the Croc issue was...fine on its own.

----------


## Caivu

Man, no one likes what they did with Croc? Batwoman #21 is probably the best Croc writing I've ever read.

Incidentally, that was one of story threads that Williams and Blackman sparred with editorial over.

----------


## millernumber1

> Man, no one likes what they did with Croc? Batwoman #21 is probably the best Croc writing I've ever read.
> 
> Incidentally, that was one of story threads that Williams and Blackman sparred with editorial over.


Sorry, I didn't think it made up for the distraction from Kate's story. It might have been fine as a three-part backup.

----------


## darkseidpwns

> Yeah, I'll say the Alice stuff was interesting but they kinda lost me on the Killer Croc stuff...


They lost me when Bane was getting jobbed for no reason at all.

----------


## Caivu

> They lost me when Bane was getting jobbed for no reason at all.


He didn't get jobbed. He got the jump on both Kate and Bette and was kind of kicking their asses a bit. He tossed Bette away like a ragdoll and damn near punched Kate's head off. And even his defeat was neutralization; it's not like Kate went toe-to-toe with him and KO'd him. She just smashed him in the face with a rock while he was focused on Bette and got him tied to a tree with her python coil.

Like, c'mon. How is that in any way jobbing on his part? He gave them some lumps, and they gave back. Unless you think she's not capable of taking him, despite... y'know, everything else she's done.

----------


## darkseidpwns

> He didn't get jobbed. He got the jump on both Kate and Bette and was kind of kicking their asses a bit. He tossed Bette away like a ragdoll and damn near punched Kate's head off. And even his defeat was neutralization; it's not like Kate went toe-to-toe with him and KO'd him. She just smashed him in the face with a rock while he was focused on Bette and got him tied to a tree with her python coil.
> 
> Like, c'mon. How is that in any way jobbing on his part? He gave them some lumps, and they gave back.


It was jobbing because it served no purpose, he already was in an ongoing story by Tynion in Talon which later continued in Arkham War and onwards. He had this very clear continuity in the New 52 era except for those specific issues of Batwoman. He didn't do anything except get owned by Kate and then Bruce. I dont mind villains getting owned but atleast the writers should have the decency to give them an actual story especially if said villain doesn't even belong to the said hero.

----------


## Caivu

> It was jobbing because it served no purpose, he already was in an ongoing story by Tynion in Talon which later continued in Arkham War and onwards. He had this very clear continuity in the New 52 era except for those specific issues of Batwoman. He didn't do anything except get owned by Kate and then Bruce. I dont mind villains getting owned but atleast the writers should have the decency to give them an actual story especially if said villain doesn't even belong to the said hero.


Dude, we have no idea where Bane's issues of Batwoman take place in relation to Talon. The two series are totally unrelated to each other. Bane being in Alaska doesn't contradict anything. Surely it can fit _somewhere_ into that "clear continuity". Timewise, his appearances in Batwoman take maybe a few hours, tops, plus the week he spent in Alaska. I'm skeptical that his New 52 storyline is tight enough to not have space for that.

I don't see why he needed is own story in his Batwoman appearances. She was after him just to get some info on how to defeat  Batman, since Bane had done it before and that was her current task.

----------


## darkseidpwns

> Dude, we have no idea where Bane's issues of Batwoman take place in relation to Talon. The two series are totally unrelated to each other. Bane being in Alaska doesn't contradict anything. 
> 
> I don't see why he needed is own story in his Batwoman appearances. She was after him just to get some info on how to defeat  Batman, since Bane had done it before and that was her current task.


Yes they do, how does the ruler of a South American country end up in Alaska? the writers could have given us an actual explanation but they didn't. They were lazy, that was Bane's status quo like I said Bane had a linear continuity except for those specific issues.
He needed a purpose and it would have been ok had that been the extent of his involvement but the humiliation continued.

----------


## Caivu

> Yes they do, how does the ruler of a South American country end up in Alaska? the writers could have given us an actual explanation but they didn't. They were lazy, that was Bane's status quo like I said Bane had a linear continuity except for those specific issues.


It doesn't matter why he's in Alaska. He's not the point of the story aside from the info Kate needed. Plus, he's _Bane._ He goes where he wants.

Maybe he was practicing wilderness survival in a harsh climate. Or testing how his Venom gear dealt with the cold. It's not even clear that he _was_ leading any kind of nation at that point. Make something up. Headcanon that shit.

Like I said, it can fit in loads of places. And he could be there for any number of reasons. It's not automatically a contradiction just because you don't like it for some reason. What can you specifically point to that says there's a continuity error? I'm not sure why this is such a big deal unless you _know_ that he doesn't have a week free someplace.




> He needed a purpose and it would have been ok had that been the extent of his involvement but the humiliation continued.


What "humiliation"?

----------


## darkseidpwns

> It doesn't matter why he's in Alaska. He's not the point of the story aside from the info Kate needed. Plus, he's _Bane._ He goes where he wants.
> 
> Maybe he was practicing wilderness survival in a harsh climate. Or testing how his Venom gear dealt with the cold. It's not even clear that he _was_ leading any kind of nation at that point. Make something up. Headcanon that shit.
> 
> Like I said, it can fit in loads of places. And he could be there for any number of reasons. It's not automatically a contradiction just because you don't like it for some reason. What can you specifically point to that says there's a continuity error?
> 
> 
> 
> What "humiliation"?


He wasn't practicing anything, he was kidnapped and thrown in there against his will, again out of nowhere. Also what info? that Kate must cheat? that's all I got, lame. She could have easily gone to Santa Prisca and asked him, that could have happened had the writers bothered to pay attention. Yes it was perfectly clear, I made it clear twice that Bane had a linear continuity throughout the New 52 except for those specific issues of Batwoman.

TDK led to Talon led to Arkham War led to Eternal led to Endgame led to Batman and Robin Eternal. The only outliers were Batwoman, Batgirl: Futures End (a story taking place in a potential future),Europa (a pre Flashpoint story). So only Batwoman cant be explained.

Yeah literally shitting isn't humiliation at all or getting captured by Bones and being his lackey.

----------


## Caivu

> He wasn't practicing anything, he was kidnapped and thrown in there against his will, again out of nowhere.


What? Are we talking about the same thing? I thought there wasn't a stated reason for him being in Alaska...

That's what I'm talking about. We _don't know_ why he was in Alaska, because it's not important. But that doesn't mean we can't theorize.




> Also what info? that Kate must cheat? that's all I got, lame. She could have easily gone to Santa Prisca and asked him, that could have happened had the writers bothered to pay attention.


Yeah, let's send a Bat who is also working as representative of the U.S. Government into a hostile nation just to ask the leader of that nation how to take down Batman. That'll go well. And again, _this is assuming Talon and Batwoman take place at the same time._




> Yes it was perfectly clear, I made it clear twice that Bane had a linear continuity throughout the New 52 except for those specific issues of Batwoman.
> 
> TDK led to Talon led to Arkham War led to Eternal led to Endgame led to Batman and Robin Eternal. The only outliers were Batwoman, Batgirl: Futures End (a story taking place in a potential future),Europa (a pre Flashpoint story). So only Batwoman cant be explained.


Batwoman takes place before TDK. Boom, there you go. Is there anything to contradict that? 

Even if not, is there again, *not a single free week during any of that?* Like, between Arkham War and Eternal, for example? I find that hard to believe. 

All these things happened in the New 52 timeline. Unless you can specifically find an airtight contradiction, then there isn't one. Instead it's just a matter of sliding things around until it all fits.




> Yeah literally shitting isn't humiliation at all or getting captured by Bones and being his lackey.


Okay. So what, a villain gets humiliated.

----------


## darkseidpwns

> What? Are we talking about the same thing? I thought there wasn't a stated reason for him being in Alaska...
> 
> That's what I'm talking about. We _don't know_ why he was in Alaska, because it's not important. But that doesn't mean we can't theorize.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, let's send a Bat who is also working as representative of the U.S. Government into a hostile nation just to ask the leader of that nation how to take down Batman. That'll go well. And again, _this is assuming Talon and Batwoman take place at the same time._
> 
> 
> ...


He was kidnapped and placed against his will man. Ofcourse its important, he's out of his element, imagine reading an issue of Batman where he just wakes up on a street in Mumbai and then just travels back to Gotham pretending as if nothing happened. The info thing like I said could have been depicted differently, a simple phone call would have been enough. So yes the execution of the idea was terrible.

Bane isn't Joker, it would have gone just fine.

Based on what? this is high levels of strawmanning. Yes there wasn't a free week for Bane after Arkham War.

A villain who is not a Batwoman villain to even begin with for starters. Secondly he just got his back broken by Selina, I didn't have anywhere near as much of a problem with that because Bane had an actual purpose in the story that corresponds to his treatment. If Bane's purpose was merely to give Kate some info then wtf was the need for Alaska and the issues that followed? It was a case of horrible writing.

----------


## Caivu

> He was kidnapped and placed against his will man. Ofcourse its important, he's out of his element, imagine reading an issue of Batman where he just wakes up on a street in Mumbai and then just travels back to Gotham pretending as if nothing happened. The info thing like I said could have been depicted differently, a simple phone call would have been enough. So yes the execution of the idea was terrible.


Uh... what series are you talking about here?




> Based on what? this is high levels of strawmanning. Yes there wasn't a free week for Bane after Arkham War.


I'll take your word for that, even though I don't buy it _at all_. But fine. Batwoman takes place before Arkham War. Boom, fixed.




> A villain who is not a Batwoman villain to even begin with for starters.


So? She's in Gotham, there's going to be some crossing of paths with "his" villains just from her association with the Bat-brand. She's tangled with Croc and Scarecrow before, why are they not as big a deal?




> Secondly he just got his back broken by Selina, I didn't have anywhere near as much of a problem with that because Bane had an actual purpose in the story that corresponds to his treatment. If Bane's purpose was merely to give Kate some info then wtf was the need for Alaska and the issues that followed? It was a case of horrible writing.


Bane _did_ have a purpose in Batwoman: to give Kate information, since he was the only one who could. That _was_ his purpose, along with being part of a distraction later on. The story doesn't need to focus on him. He's a minor character, and that's okay.

Why are you so hung up on this Alaska thing? He was in Alaska for some reason that we don't know _because it's not important that we know._ He just was. *We don't have to know why.*

----------


## ProgmanX

Is anyone going to mention that the whole Alaska thing was kind of an awesome reference to _Metal Gear Solid_? Because it was. 

MGSKate.jpg

"Five miles off the coast of Alaska" is directly lifted from MGS1's opening monologue. I mean, if anything, that should validate the entire sequence. Batwoman and Bane + MGS? Solid gold.

And unnamed? More like "if we said it was in the Fox Archipelago, we'd get sued and it'd be too obvious"

----------


## Caivu

Kate will be in Batman #16, possibly helping fight Bane:

Screenshot_20170119-152327.jpg

On the plus side: More interaction with the rest of the Family! Especially Damian. Hopefully something with Barbara as well.

But then again, those solicits for "I am Bane"...  :Frown:

----------


## The Whovian

> Kate will be in Batman #16, possibly helping fight Bane:
> 
> Attachment 43993
> 
> On the plus side: More interaction with the rest of the Family! Especially Damian. Hopefully something with Barbara as well.
> 
> But then again, those solicits for "I am Bane"...


Looks cool. Good to see Jason there as well.

----------


## Caivu

It's a bit weird for her in particular. There's "I am Bane", which is Bane wrecking Gotham, and it looks like she's going to be there for that. But in 'Tec, "League of Shadows" is the LoS doing the same thing. I don't mind that, but I figured at least one of those arcs would take place while she's out of town in her solo, y'know? It's still a possibility in either case, I guess.

I'm also wondering if the rest of the team will be in "IaB" and if not, why not.

----------


## ProgmanX

> Kate will be in Batman #16, possibly helping fight Bane:
> 
> Attachment 43993
> 
> On the plus side: More interaction with the rest of the Family! Especially Damian. Hopefully something with Barbara as well.
> 
> But then again, those solicits for "I am Bane"...


Really? We know nobody is going to get crippled or killed. What's with the frown. Jason has his ongoing, and has been dead before. Damian has Teen Titans and Super Sons, and...has been dead before. Babs has _two_ ongoings. Dick has Titans and Nightwing. Kate has Tec and her own series. Batman is _everywhere._ And also Duke can't die because then who would play Not!Robin to Batman in All-Star? Also he marries Claire in the future I guess.

No, this just makes it much more interesting as to who is going to get KO'd first. I'd previously assumed the "family" would just be composed of Dick, Jason, Damian and Duke. But, with Kate and Babs, this gets...interesting. It certainly makes one wonder if Cass and Luke will show up. Though if Cass were there I'm not sure this arc would take very long lol. 

So, who goes down first? Jason might not be the most obvious choice anymore. Could be Babs unless she brought the Birds along.

----------


## Aahz

> Looks cool. Good to see Jason there as well.


Based on the previous events, I'm not really excited about this. 
And the solits also not sound like anyone apart from Batman has a bigger role in that event.

Btw. where is the rest of the 'tec team?

----------


## Caivu

> Really? We know nobody is going to get crippled or killed. What's with the frown. Jason has his ongoing, and has been dead before. Damian has Teen Titans and Super Sons, and...has been dead before. Babs has _two_ ongoings. Dick has Titans and Nightwing. Kate has Tec and her own series. Batman is _everywhere._ And also Duke can't die because then who would play Not!Robin to Batman in All-Star? Also he marries Claire in the future I guess.


I know all that. And I think you know more than anyone that, from a characterization standpoint, I want Kate to get beaten up fairly and badly. But even though I think that needs to happen to her, that doesn't mean I'm going to actually like witnessing it. It's the same for the others. I get that all of them getting taken out is for the story, since it's about the final confrontation between Batman and Bane. But I like all of them, and don't like seeing them get thrashed even if I understand that's the point.

There's also the fact that if she's _also_ in "League of Shadows", and things go similarly for her in Mother Panic #3 and her own solo... then damn, that'll be a rough few months. Making up for lost time, but still. I'm usually an optimist, but not when it comes to comic solicits.  :Stick Out Tongue: 




> No, this just makes it much more interesting as to who is going to get KO'd first. I'd previously assumed the "family" would just be composed of Dick, Jason, Damian and Duke. But, with Kate and Babs, this gets...interesting. It certainly makes one wonder if Cass and Luke will show up. Though if Cass were there I'm not sure this arc would take very long lol.
> 
> So, who goes down first? Jason might not be the most obvious choice anymore. Could be Babs unless she brought the Birds along.


Duke's the greenest, I'm guessing him.




> Based on the previous events, I'm not really excited about this. 
> And the solits also not sound like anyone apart from Batman has a bigger role in that event.


They shouldn't, really. It's not their story. But I do hope they're not just total fodder.




> Btw. where is the rest of the 'tec team?


Dunno. They either will be in this or won't be, with an explanation as to why (I trust King). That _is_ going to make it weird with "League of Shadows" going on at the same time though, either way.

----------


## Aahz

> So, who goes down first? Jason might not be the most obvious choice anymore. Could be Babs unless she brought the Birds along.


After their fights in the Eternals it is imo actually time that Jason finally kicks Banes Ass, but that probably want happen.

----------


## Caivu

> After their fights in the Eternals it is imo actually time that Jason finally kicks Banes Ass, but that probably want happen.


It's definitely not. The whole point of the arc is Batman and Bane having a final showdown. Just them, after everyone else gets taken down.

----------


## Aahz

> It's definitely not. The whole point of the arc is Batman and Bane having a final showdown. Just them, after everyone else gets taken down.


I know, and therefore I'm have really no expectations for this.

But I still think that the Batwriters really owe Jasons fans to give him finally something big like this.

----------


## Caivu

Some previews of Steve Epting's art from the new series:

Screenshot_20170120-182345.jpg

Screenshot_20170120-182258.jpg

Screenshot_20170120-182239.jpg

I'm not surprised, but wow is this book going to be beautiful.

----------


## Caivu

And also:

Screenshot_20170120-182321.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

> Some previews of Steve Epting's art from the new series:
> 
> Screenshot_20170120-182345.jpg
> 
> Screenshot_20170120-182258.jpg
> 
> Screenshot_20170120-182239.jpg
> 
> I'm not surprised, but wow is this book going to be beautiful.


If nothing else, this book will indeed be beautiful.

----------


## Caivu

Well, 'Tec #949 implies that Kate is missing about 4 years of her history due to Rebirth (that's what I'm going with for now, anyway). She mentions she was eight when she was kidnapped, when Elegy established that she was twelve. That's such a deliberate change that for it to _not_ be intentional would be almost unimaginable. Why change it otherwise, if not for whatever timeline wonkiness is going on in Rebirth? There's an in-universe reason for that to be there, so I'm not too worried right now.

Also, there was this great moment:

Don'tApprove.JPG

----------


## Aahz

> She mentions she was eight when she was kidnapped, when Elegy established that she was twelve. That's such a deliberate change that for it to _not_ be intentional would be almost unimaginable.


More likely the mistake of the writes, Bruce and Dick starting ages are also are also changing all the time.

----------


## Caivu

> More likely the mistake of the writes, Bruce and Dick starting ages are also are also changing all the time.


The thing is, I don't know how it _could_ be a mistake. I don't know what they could be confusing her age with, where they got 8 years old from. 

Plus, they've said they're not going to contradict anything from Elegy, which made it pretty clear that the kidnapping happened on Kate's twelfth birthday. It could've been meant as everything will sort itself out in the end even if it seems contradictory.

In other words, there are so many "mistakes" here that I don't think they're actually mistakes or retcons. For right now I think something else is up.

----------


## Aahz

> The thing is, I don't know how it _could_ be a mistake. I don't know what they could be confusing her age with, where they got 8 years old from.


maybe they just confused it with Bruce age when his parents got murdered?

Btw. there was sometnig siilar with burce in one of the last issues, in the new 52 he was 10 when his parents died, but one of the last issues also referenced 8.

----------


## adrikito

> Also, there was this great moment:
> 
> Attachment 44204


I liked this moment... This chapter was too short for me... in other words.. The new batwoman serie has not started yet But I really want to start this serie.

----------


## Caivu

A few glimpses of pages from the Batwoman Rebirth one-shot:

Screenshot_20170125-123236.jpg

Seems like that Wonder Woman panel discussed earlier is just a flashback. Oh well, I figured it probably was.

----------


## ProgmanX

BatwomanRebirthPreview1.jpg
BatwomanRebirthPreview2.jpg
BatwomanRebirthPreview3.jpg

Got 'em in higher resolution. Not much, but it's something.

----------


## ProgmanX

> The thing is, I don't know how it _could_ be a mistake. I don't know what they could be confusing her age with, where they got 8 years old from. 
> 
> Plus, they've said they're not going to contradict anything from Elegy, which made it pretty clear that the kidnapping happened on Kate's twelfth birthday. It could've been meant as everything will sort itself out in the end even if it seems contradictory.
> 
> In other words, there are so many "mistakes" here that I don't think they're actually mistakes or retcons. For right now I think something else is up.


I agree. Birds of Prey Rebirth even changed the name of the theater where the Wayne's were murdered (well the alley next to it) from the Monarch to the Majestic and it wasn't a lettering error. I think it's a clever way to tie-in every Rebirth book into the growing mystery in a way that rewards more savvy readers for paying attention. I've seen this a bunch of times in other books; tiny things that don't actually change anything but are changed anyway. King's Batman #6 says 10 years old, too but...how long has it been 8?

----------


## The Whovian

> Well, 'Tec #949 implies that Kate is missing about 4 years of her history due to Rebirth (that's what I'm going with for now, anyway). She mentions she was eight when she was kidnapped, when Elegy established that she was twelve. That's such a deliberate change that for it to _not_ be intentional would be almost unimaginable. Why change it otherwise, if not for whatever timeline wonkiness is going on in Rebirth? There's an in-universe reason for that to be there, so I'm not too worried right now.
> 
> Also, there was this great moment:
> 
> Attachment 44204


LOL! I love that!

----------


## The Whovian

> A few glimpses of pages from the Batwoman Rebirth one-shot:
> 
> Screenshot_20170125-123236.jpg
> 
> Seems like that Wonder Woman panel discussed earlier is just a flashback. Oh well, I figured it probably was.


Geez, I love Epting's art. I can't believe he's going to be doing the art for Batwoman.

----------


## Caivu

> BatwomanRebirthPreview1.jpg
> BatwomanRebirthPreview2.jpg
> BatwomanRebirthPreview3.jpg
> 
> Got 'em in higher resolution. Not much, but it's something.


Nice. That book she's reading in the second page is pretty meaningful:

http://https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wi...Six_Stratagems

----------


## Caivu

Got a glimpse of the first page of the Mother Panic #3 script from another progress image from Edwards. Kate and Bruce are both there:

Screenshot_20170126-104809.jpg

Didn't expect to see either of them so early in the issue.

----------


## The Whovian

> Nice. That book she's reading in the second page is pretty meaningful:
> 
> http://https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wi...Six_Stratagems


Oh, good catch. Sometimes I get so excited to read the next page that I miss things like that.

----------


## Caivu

Part of page 7 from Mother Panic #3:

KateOnTheRoof.jpg

Looks like just before the fight, which I'm guessing starts on page 8.

Remember how I said for an earlier progress panel that it looked like she was getting tossed off a ledge or roof? Yeah... that's looking a bit more likely now.

----------


## Caivu

Saddened by John Hurt's passing, but it did make for this amusing conversation between Blackman and Williams III:

Screenshot_20170127-225330.jpg

----------


## Caivu

A tease of _Batwoman_ #3's cover:

Screenshot_20170130-150830.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

Thanks for posting these Caivu!

----------


## Man-Thing

Hello all! After dropping comics for a year or two, a friend of mine recently let me know that Kate was back in Detective, and I've greatly pleased with the run, and super happy about the incoming solo series. 

Was wondering if she had any appearances of note between the end of her last solo series and showing up in the current Tec run. 

Thanks  :Smile:

----------


## Caivu

> Hello all! After dropping comics for a year or two, a friend of mine recently let me know that Kate was back in Detective, and I've greatly pleased with the run, and super happy about the incoming solo series. 
> 
> Was wondering if she had any appearances of note between the end of her last solo series and showing up in the current Tec run. 
> 
> Thanks


She had a small role in Batgirl Annual #3 and an even smaller role in issues #23-26 of Batman and Robin Eternal.

----------


## The Whovian

> She had a small role in Batgirl Annual #3 and an even smaller role in issues #23-26 of Batman and Robin Eternal.


Yeah, it wasn't much. Which is why it was so nice to see her on 'Tec and now getting a whole new series.

----------


## Frontier



----------


## Caivu

More Steve Epting panels!

Screenshot_20170202-103429.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

> More Steve Epting panels!
> 
> Screenshot_20170202-103429.jpg


Oh man, how much longer do I have to wait to get my hands on this book?!?!!?

----------


## ProgmanX

> Oh man, how much longer do I have to wait to get my hands on this book?!?!!?


13 Days. Tick tock...

----------


## Man-Thing

So it Kate or her father no longer going to be in Tec?

----------


## Caivu

> So it Kate or her father no longer going to be in Tec?


Kate will still be in 'Tec. As for Jacob, who knows? He's probably going to be in her solo series, though.

----------


## ProgmanX

> Kate will still be in 'Tec. As for Jacob, who knows? He's probably going to be in her solo series, though.


If she's not letting him out of that cell, he'll still be there. Still hope she told her stepmother that he was, y'know alive

----------


## Selina

Love...Loved her in *Batman: Badblood.*. She does not seem to whine as much as Batgirl.

----------


## Man-Thing

> Love...Loved her in *Batman: Badblood.*. She does not seem to whine as much as Batgirl.


I loved her in this, though I was a little disappointed they didn't get in to the reason for her dismissal from the military.

----------


## Frontier

> I loved her in this, though I was a little disappointed they didn't get in to the reason for her dismissal from the military.


I was actually kind of surprised that, with how much else they included from Kate's origin and story from the comics, they never brought up why she was dismissed.

I mean, you could easily assume it was because of her sexual orientation, but it was vague enough in the movie that it could've been anything.

----------


## Caivu

> I loved her in this, though I was a little disappointed they didn't get in to the reason for her dismissal from the military.


They did, very briefly. She apparently had a mental breakdown of some kind. From an adaptation standpoint that's... okay, I guess, but that's a pretty key thing to change.

----------


## The Whovian

> Kate will still be in 'Tec. As for Jacob, who knows? He's probably going to be in her solo series, though.


I know he will be in flashbacks. But do you think he'll be in it in the present time?

----------


## Caivu

> I know he will be in flashbacks. But do you think he'll be in it in the present time?


Maybe, but it'd be weird if he's still in the Belfry communicating with her.

----------


## Man-Thing

Still catching up on stuff. How's Kate in the Injustice comics?

----------


## Caivu

> Still catching up on stuff. How's Kate in the Injustice comics?


On the whole, a pretty good depiction compared to her main counterpart. Some things are missing (I can't recall any mention of her being Jewish, and there's nothing about her backstory at all), but for an AU, it's not bad.

She's *spoilers:*
one of the last survivng members of the Insurgency, and there's not even hard evidence that she's dead. Plus, along with Barbara, she was responsible for bringing in the heroes from the good universe into the Injusticeverse,
*end of spoilers* so that's pretty cool.

She also beats the living shit out of Wonder Woman at one point, which was pretty awesome.

----------


## Caivu

I learned yesterday that, according to J.H. Williams III, Kate's birthday is March 21st:

20170205_141544.jpg

As good a date as any (as he says), and there's been nothing else to say otherwise.

----------


## ProgmanX

> On the whole, a pretty good depiction compared to her main counterpart. Some things are missing (I can't recall any mention of her being Jewish, and there's nothing about her backstory at all), but for an AU, it's not bad.
> 
> She's *spoilers:*
> one of the last survivng members of the Insurgency, and there's not even hard evidence that she's dead. Plus, along with Barbara, she was responsible for bringing in the heroes from the good universe into the Injusticeverse,
> *end of spoilers* so that's pretty cool.
> 
> She also beats the living shit out of Wonder Woman at one point, which was pretty awesome.


No, no. She does it _twice._

*spoilers:*
 And there's no way she's dead! I'm kind of half convinced Harley is recapping all of this to Kate in "Ground Zero". Besides, if she'd actually been vaporized by Superman's heat vision, that entire back wall would have melted too. But it was only lightly damaged
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Caivu

> No, no. She does it _twice._
> 
> *spoilers:*
>  And there's no way she's dead! I'm kind of half convinced Harley is recapping all of this to Kate in "Ground Zero". Besides, if she'd actually been vaporized by Superman's heat vision, that entire back wall would have melted too. But it was only lightly damaged
> *end of spoilers*


Ah, I forgot the second, you're right.

That's an interesting idea about Harley telling her the story. But...

Screenshot_20170205-185055.jpg

Screenshot_20170205-185125.jpg

I think she's probably still alive, to be clear.

----------


## ProgmanX

> Ah, I forgot the second, you're right.
> 
> That's an interesting idea about Harley telling her the story. But...
> 
> Screenshot_20170205-185055.jpg
> 
> Screenshot_20170205-185125.jpg
> 
> I think she's probably still alive, to be clear.


They wouldn't have left it as ambiguous as it was. The panel structure itself suggests it pretty heavily. Everyone else got teleported away, but we didn't see where Kate ended up...

----------


## Bat-Meal

I hope she turns-up in the Injustice 2 game, since she's not been in many games (only referenced in Arkham Knight), and she was an NPC to rescue a few times in DC Universe online (I heard, but never played it).

----------


## Man-Thing

> I hope she turns-up in the Injustice 2 game, since she's not been in many games (only referenced in Arkham Knight), and she was an NPC to rescue a few times in DC Universe online (I heard, but never played it).


I tweeted NRS, asking if she was going to be in, but they never got back to me :/

----------


## Caivu

Left: A mockup of_ Batwoman: Rebirth_ #1 I made back in December.
Right: The actual cover.

Mine2.jpg Theirs.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

> Left: A mockup of_ Batwoman: Rebirth_ #1 I made back in December.
> Right: The actual cover.
> 
> Mine2.jpg Theirs.jpg


The actual cover is a lot better

----------


## Caivu

> The actual cover is a lot better


Thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanks

----------


## Caivu

I am totally okay with Kate becoming a surrogate sister or even mom to Cass:

BWCass.JPG

BWCass2.JPG

She's really the first positive woman Cass has had any significant exposure to, so that would make a lot of sense.

----------


## Caivu

Tynion and Bennett are holding a Facebook Live Q&A about the new series on February 22nd.

Screenshot_20170210-121726.jpg

Screenshot_20170210-121651.jpg

----------


## adrikito

> Tynion and Bennett are holding a Facebook Live Q&A about the new series on February 22nd.
> 
> Screenshot_20170210-121726.jpg
> 
> Screenshot_20170210-121651.jpg


THANK YOU *Caivu*. Is interesting.

----------


## Caivu

More from Epting! Kate and... an Anklyosaurus, I guess.

Screenshot_20170211-150841.jpg

----------


## ProgmanX

> More from Epting! Kate and... an Anklyosaurus, I guess.
> 
> Screenshot_20170211-150841.jpg


Really? You don't think it might be Killer Croc or one of the RoC Were-Monsters?

----------


## Caivu

> Really? You don't think it might be Killer Croc or one of the RoC Were-Monsters?


It was a joke.

----------


## Caivu

More Claire Roe sketches, colored by her this time:

4aabf892-9ab9-40d6-b393-7ac25cb86d62.jpg

----------


## Caivu

J.G. Jones's variant cover to issue #1:

BW_Cv1_var.jpg

I really want that as a poster.

----------


## The Whovian

> J.G. Jones's variant cover to issue #1:
> 
> BW_Cv1_var.jpg
> 
> I really want that as a poster.


Oh wow, that is awesome!

----------


## Caivu

I love Kate's "Lost Year" hair:

Screenshot_20170214-191712.jpg

Pretty much the exact same that Natalie Dormer wore in Mockingjay. I liked it then, too.

Not only is such a style totally something Kate would do (especially in an aimless and rebellious phase), it's also immediately recognizable and helps visually show that a flashback is happening. And not just any flashback, but one to that specific period of time.

Plus, it also works if Kate and Violet Paige were in a punk band together like I suspect they were...

----------


## Caivu

Also, Kate's into kinky shit:

50ShadesOfKane.JPG

----------


## adrikito

> I love Kate's "Lost Year" hair:
> 
> Screenshot_20170214-191712.jpg
> 
> Pretty much the exact same that Natalie Dormer wore in Mockingjay. I liked it then, too.
> 
> Not only is such a style totally something Kate would do (especially in an aimless and rebellious phase), it's also immediately recognizable and helps visually show that a flashback is happening. And not just any flashback, but one to that specific period of time.
> 
> Plus, it also works if Kate and Violet Paige were in a punk band together like I suspect they were...


You are not the only..  :Wink:  Like the Renee hair.

----------


## Chrysalis_Changling

> Also, Kate's into kinky shit:
> 
> 50ShadesOfKane.JPG


welp let's hope this isn't hinting at Kate Kane Talking about her experiences in The BDSM Lifestyle

----------


## SneakyLookingSort

> welp let's hope this isn't hinting at Kate Kane Talking about her experiences in The BDSM Lifestyle


Mild bondage in the bedroom is not exacly uncommon  :Smile:

----------


## Bat-Meal

It could be in there to empathise how much she *trusted* Safiya.  

That way, when she comes across her again in the series, if the blurb about her friends now being enemies is anything to go by - it really shows how much things have changed and how hurtful that is for them to go from such a level of trust to being enemies.

----------


## Caivu

Batwoman's getting an action figure this year!

IMG_20170219_151224.jpg

IMG_20170219_151207.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

> Batwoman's getting an action figure this year!
> 
> IMG_20170219_151224.jpg
> 
> IMG_20170219_151207.jpg


Need a cool statue of her

----------


## Caivu

BW_3_COV_600.jpg

*BATWOMAN #3*

Written by MARGUERITE BENNETT and JAMES TYNION IV • Art and cover by STEVE EPTING • Variant cover by J.G. JONES

“The Many Arms Of Death” part three! Batwoman’s identified the cancer spreading through the lawless nation of Coryana, but to fight back, she’s going to need an army…and the only soldiers at hand belong to the island’s deadly warlords and gang leaders! Can Kate rally every one of these cutthroats to a common cause? Or will Coryana collapse into the same wretched hive of scum and villainy it’s always been? The fate of one of Kate’s greatest loves hangs in the balance…

On sale MAY 17 • 32 pg, FC, $3.99 US • RATED T+

----------


## Caivu

Kate is officially a baseball fan in the main universe as of 'Tec #951. That's awesome.

----------


## Green Goblin of Sector 2814

Some great J.G. Jones artwork.

----------


## Caivu

New interview with Tynion about the new series, about 54 minutes in:

http://blog.midtowncomics.com/podcast/13123

Scarecrow is confirmed for the second arc.

----------


## darkseidpwns

Must be starting soon if he's pretty lax about spoiling it.

----------


## Caivu

> Must be starting soon if he's pretty lax about spoiling it.


It was pretty obvious from the Rebirth issue. Lots of swirling green gas, someone talking about fear?

----------


## Assam

> Must be starting soon if he's pretty lax about spoiling it.


Darkseid, since you seem to hate Cass and Steph, I curious what you think of Kate. Me personally, while she's had some cool moments, and Elegy is a brilliant story, there are about half a dozen Batfam members I'd rather see get solo titles.

----------


## darkseidpwns

> Darkseid, since you seem to hate Cass and Steph, I curious what you think of Kate. Me personally, while she's had some cool moments, and Elegy is a brilliant story, there are about half a dozen Batfam members I'd rather see get solo titles.


Dont care about Cass but I'm actually a Steph fan. I dont need my favorite characters beating up villains beyond their league or taking up important mantles that they never had any claim on to feel good about them.
I'm a fan of Kate too.

----------


## darkseidpwns

> It was pretty obvious from the Rebirth issue. Lots of swirling green gas, someone talking about fear?


Dr Death, Mad Hatter etc

----------


## Caivu

> Dr Death, Mad Hatter etc


Since when does Hatter use gas? Or Death talk about fear?

Moot point, since it _is_ Scarecrow.

----------


## Caivu

Detective Comics #953 variant cover by Rafael Albuquerque:

Screenshot_20170227-221810.jpg

 :Frown:

----------


## Assam

> Dr Death, Mad Hatter etc


Man, if it had been Dr. Death, that would have been a hoot! I know he's the first villain Batman ever fought, but I mostly remember him as the guy that got Bruce and Cass to fight each other across Gotham City. 

I wasn't a big fan of him as a character, but I would have preferred it to yet another Scarecrow story. He's approaching Joker level of villain fatigue for me.

----------


## Bat-Meal

> Detective Comics #953 variant cover by Rafael Albuquerque:
> 
> Screenshot_20170227-221810.jpg


...Is it just me, or does it sort of maybe a bit look like the sword going through her breast?  

Hardly the first she's been stabbed, so I'm not worried.  Plus, she's been dead before (and so has her sister for that matter).

----------


## Assam

> ...Is it just me, or does it sort of maybe a bit look like the sword going through her breast?  
> 
> Hardly the first she's been stabbed, so I'm not worried.  Plus, she's been dead before (and so has her sister for that matter).


That's how you know she's a true member of the Batfamily: She won't stay dead.

----------


## Caivu

> ...Is it just me, or does it sort of maybe a bit look like the sword going through her breast?


That is exactly what the site I screenshotted this from said.




> Hardly the first she's been stabbed, so I'm not worried.  Plus, she's been dead before (and so has her sister for that matter).


All true, and if covers lie, then variant covers lie even more. Still, I expect the team's gonna be in for some serious hurt.

----------


## darkseidpwns

> Since when does Hatter use gas? Or Death talk about fear?
> 
> Moot point, since it _is_ Scarecrow.


Death has Soul gas, it can induce fear depending on the person and he's an arms dealer who specializes in biological weapons, the arc is about an organization called the Many arms of Death that specializes in bio weapons.
Hatter uses all sorts of stuff that can result in hallucinations, he used gas in Hurwitz TDK run.

----------


## darkseidpwns

> ...Is it just me, or does it sort of maybe a bit look like the sword going through her breast?  
> 
> Hardly the first she's been stabbed, so I'm not worried.  Plus, she's been dead before (and so has her sister for that matter).


Shiva loves them some ...you know what, to be fair so does every man.

----------


## Bat-Meal

> That is exactly what the site I screenshotted this from said.
> 
> 
> 
> All true, and if covers lie, then variant covers lie even more. Still, I expect the team's gonna be in for some serious hurt.


Well, if it only went through the mammary gland, that would hurt, but it's probably not lethal.  

Would have made more sense to aim closer to the centre of the chest though.

----------


## darkseidpwns

Is the main cover for that issue out?

----------


## Caivu

Batwoman by Stjepan Sejic:

IMG_20170228_084611.jpg

----------


## SplinteringHeart

That is some art!  :Cool:

----------


## millernumber1

> Batwoman by Stjepan Sejic:
> 
> IMG_20170228_084611.jpg


Oh, man, Sejic is such a fun artist. That's incredible - I love the seams on the costume!

----------


## Caivu

Some bits and bobs about the Rebirth issue.

#21 on February's bestseller list:

Screenshot_20170305-200938.jpg

It peaked at #6 on Comixology:

60e82e81-830f-4249-8178-01ffbdc8afa0.jpg

And did very well at this store in particular (#1 bestseller of the week):

0fe9a62e-c072-4d18-9607-dce8e7a0c2fc.jpg

So, a pretty respectable debut. Can't wait to see the actual numbers for it.

----------


## Frontier

Good to hear  :Smile: .

----------


## Aahz

> So, a pretty respectable debut. Can't wait to see the actual numbers for it.


based on the sales of titles above and below it is probably in the region of 50k- 60k, thats decent but not great.

----------


## ProgmanX

> based on the sales of titles above and below it is probably in the region of 50k- 60k, thats decent but not great.


It doesn't _need_ great numbers. Kinda cynical, I know, but it just needs to not-be-cancelled. Which, honestly, if they can grab enough of the last ongoing's readership, plus some bonuses from TEC and Rebirth itself, shouldn't be difficult. Considering how the odds of it being anywhere near as bad as Andreyko's run are like, almost literally zero...looks good to me.

----------


## Assam

> It doesn't _need_ great numbers. Kinda cynical, I know, but it just needs to not-be-cancelled. Which, honestly, if they can grab enough of the last ongoing's readership, plus some bonuses from TEC and Rebirth itself, shouldn't be difficult. Considering how the odds of it being anywhere near as bad as Andreyko's run are like, almost literally zero...looks good to me.


I dropped the book after DC cancelled Kate's marriage. How bad did it get?

----------


## ProgmanX

> I dropped the book after DC cancelled Kate's marriage. How bad did it get?


She got brainwashed/mind controlled by a vampire who emotionally and psychologically abused her into a meek, pale imitation of herself. She had numerous blackouts and is convinced by that same vampire that she was murdering people (it was Nocturna, the vampire, trying to frame her for the killings). Nocturna also raped her repeatedly, starting in that issue where she broke up with Maggie. 

Also Kate was convinced she was a vampire too, but apparently the parts of her brain that would reason that as VERY BAD were shut down by Nocturna. The narrative treats Kate as if she "wanted" it, which is a direct response to the criticism Andreyko got from readers. Nocturna literally says "I'm not some kind of rapist" but she is, and gaslights Kate into oblivion. 

So, if you were wondering why Kate seems a little off in her scripting (not OOC off but like there's something else going on in her head) or why she's much more timid than typical before the end of Tec 937, it's most likely because she's still coping with ALL OF THAT.

----------


## Caivu

Here's the estimated sales, from Comichron:

Comichron.jpg

And a comparison to the first volume's #1:

Comichron2.JPG

And for Batwoman #0: Beyond a Shadow, which the Rebirth issue is more analogous to:

Comichron3.JPG

Looking pretty comparable to me for the moment.

Edit: Wow the image uploader was wonky. Sorry about that.

----------


## ProgmanX

> Here's the estimated sales, from Comichron:
> 
> Comichron.jpg
> 
> And a comparison to the first volume's #1:
> 
> Comichron2.JPG
> 
> And for Batwoman #0: Beyond a Shadow, which the Rebirth issue is more analogous to:
> ...


Last time digital wasn't nearly as big, though. That has to be a factor here.

----------


## Caivu

> Last time digital wasn't nearly as big, though. That has to be a factor here.


I've been under the impression that digital sales aren't counted in these lists at all, but maybe I'm wrong.

----------


## ProgmanX

> I've been under the impression that digital sales aren't counted in these lists at all, but maybe I'm wrong.


They aren't, and that's what I mean. There's a mystery number of sales that aren't divulged for some reason. I mean she was #6 at one point, so...I guess one could make a decent guess on how many copies were sold if you were to figure out how many issues of Batman were sold. The ratio would most likely be the same.

----------


## Caivu

I've also been hearing that DC was low across the board last month.

----------


## hotroddii

Is Kate Kane Jewish through her mothers side of the family?

Because if her dad is Jewish too then, then that would mean his sister, Martha, was Jewish ... making Bruce technically Jewish too

----------


## Assam

> Is Kate Kane Jewish through her mothers side of the family?
> 
> Because if her dad is Jewish too then, then that would mean his sister, Martha, was Jewish ... making Bruce technically Jewish too


OMG, I didn't think of that. I may be an Atheist, but I was raised Jewish, and I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't get a kick out of the revelation that Batman has been Jewish all along.

----------


## ProgmanX

> Is Kate Kane Jewish through her mothers side of the family?
> 
> Because if her dad is Jewish too then, then that would mean his sister, Martha, was Jewish ... making Bruce technically Jewish too


Kate is Jewish through _both_ sides of her family. Bruce is ethnically Jewish by default, though don't hold your breath for anyone to ever address this in the comics. I can't find the tweet from Tynion right now but yes, all three Kane siblings (Martha, Jacob and Philip) were/are Jewish.

----------


## Oberon

Also Nathan or Nathaniel who married the original Batwoman, Kathy Kane.  Martha's older brother

----------


## ProgmanX

> Also Nathan or Nathaniel who married the original Batwoman, Kathy Kane.  Martha's older brother


Almost positive Nathan was erased from canon, and that he was originally like her third cousin or something. Otherwise, Bruce would've married his cousin-by-marriage. Which is...weird.

----------


## hotroddii

> Kate is Jewish through _both_ sides of her family. Bruce is ethnically Jewish by default, though don't hold your breath for anyone to ever address this in the comics. I can't find the tweet from Tynion right now but yes, all three Kane siblings (Martha, Jacob and Philip) were/are Jewish.


Hmmm ... that's what I suspected.

Yes, Bruce being ethnically Jewish will probably never be addressed ... and obviously he wasn't raised in the religion. I am reading the most recent Detective trade, and I noticed a menorah in the church behind the photo of Martha and her siblings at her funeral.

----------


## ProgmanX

> Hmmm ... that's what I suspected.
> 
> Yes, Bruce being ethnically Jewish will probably never be addressed ... and obviously he wasn't raised in the religion. I am reading the most recent Detective trade, and I noticed a menorah in the church behind the photo of Martha and her siblings at her funeral.


Mhmm. It's actually an impressive attention to detail on Barrows's part._ Most_ would have made the mistake of just sticking a nine-candle Menorah (a hannukiah) rather than the seven-candle Menorah. The latter being the oldest symbol of Judaism, so it'd make sense to put that in an interfaith ceremony like that.

----------


## Oberon

No Nathan/iel was Bruce's uncle, so the original Kathy Kane was Bruce's _aunt by marriage_.    I honestly don't know if it was erased from canon. Earlier in the New 52, Batman INC - which does seem to not be in total tune - indicated this story.

----------


## Caivu

So... found this on Allen Passalaqua's Instagram:

Screenshot_20170314-023607.jpg

Um.

----------


## Assam

> So... found this on Allen Passalaqua's Instagram:
> 
> Screenshot_20170314-023607.jpg
> 
> Um.


Oh no! Is Kate gonna die? OMG, I'm so worried about what could, OH WAIT she just launched an ongoing. She'll be fine. Never mind.

----------


## Caivu

> Oh no! Is Kate gonna die? OMG, I'm so worried about what could, OH WAIT she just launched an ongoing. She'll be fine. Never mind.


Dude, I know that. She wouldn't be in danger of dying even without her new series. Doesn't mean I like seeing it.

----------


## Assam

> Dude, I know that. She wouldn't be in danger of dying even without her new series. Doesn't mean I like seeing it.


Fair enough. 

But if this IS from the next issue, that's 3 out of 6 'Tec team members out of commission. And considering the other two remaining members are Batman and the arc's protgaonist, Cass, I'd be watching my back if I were Basil at this point.

----------


## darkseidpwns

Kinda sad to see these characters taken down by regular ninjas. I know Caivu is going to tell me that we should wait but I'm reasonably sure there isn't much to these guys.

----------


## darkseidpwns

What happened to the preview of the first issue?

----------


## Caivu

> Kinda sad to see these characters taken down by regular ninjas. I know Caivu is going to tell me that we should wait but I'm reasonably sure there isn't much to these guys.


Don't you think the fact they're being taken down so easily is maybe, I don't know, a sign that they _aren't_ regular ninjas?

Like, seriously, that's a very odd thing to think based on what's being shown. It's a clear case of the Worf Effect, but that's a valid tool.




> What happened to the preview of the first issue?


Hasn't been released yet. The one-shot's preview released really late on a Tuesday, and that looks like what'll happen here too.

----------


## darkseidpwns

I think in the enf they'll spin it to these ninjas being really skilled and all which would be kinda lazy.

----------


## adrikito

> So... found this on Allen Passalaqua's Instagram:
> 
> Attachment 46623
> 
> Um.


WOW. Awesome.

----------


## Bat-Meal

Batman may be regretting not inviting the 'Tec Team to batburger, followed by dropping them all off with the Super-babysitter (hey, it worked with the robins).....Actually, if Jake ever gets out of that cell, he might be doing his own version of that.  :P

----------


## SneakyLookingSort

> Don't you think the fact they're being taken down so easily is maybe, I don't know, a sign that they _aren't_ regular ninjas?


There seemed to be some kind of mystical element going on with their black eyes (even Shiva had black eyes for a moment after she knocked out Cass)

----------


## Caivu

> There seemed to be some kind of mystical element going on with their black eyes (even Shiva had black eyes for a moment after she knocked out Cass)


Exactly. That plus them being able to stab through armor (especially in Kate's case as seen here, since magic items have been the only thing capable of damaging her suit) point to something supernatural going on.

----------


## Oberon

> Fair enough. 
> 
> But if this IS from the next issue, that's 3 out of 6 'Tec team members out of commission. And considering the other two remaining members are Batman and the arc's protgaonist, Cass, I'd be watching my back if I were Basil at this point.


Oh NO! They'll have no choice but to recruit Flamebird.... ummm, yeah.

----------


## Caivu

Comixology currently has a Batwoman sale going on until March 20th.

7cef0897-2f1f-45a4-b277-3b3b7f5b7a6a.jpg

----------


## Aahz

> Oh NO! They'll have no choice but to recruit Flamebird.... ummm, yeah.


They can still bring back Roberta the Girl Wonder.

----------


## Oberon

> They can still bring back Roberta the Girl Wonder.


Is that Gotham Girl?  I would be okay with that.

  or you're trolling me.

----------


## Caivu

Gotta post this while it's still Pi Day:

C65kstHW0AsqHXN.jpg

----------


## DebkoX

Hmmm....

Batburger.

----------


## Aahz

> Is that Gotham Girl?  I would be okay with that.
> 
>   or you're trolling me.


Nope, she is an obscure golden age character that only appeared in one story (Star-Spangled Comics #103) and kind of the predecessor of Bette.



And there is of course also Wireboy (Star-Spangled Comics #98).



And if they want more diversity they can also bring in Rajah Robin (Star-Spangled Comics #98).

----------


## Caivu

So... yeah. Batwoman #1 kicked ass and started what's sure to be a wild ride. Such a bold opener to the series proper. 

Buy a copy. Or three.

----------


## Assam

> So... yeah. Batwoman #1 kicked ass and started what's sure to be a wild ride. Such a bold opener to the series proper. 
> 
> Buy a copy. Or three.


Glad to hear it's good! I probably won't be reading the book since I'm already reading so many Rebirth titles, and I'm not willing to drop any of them for Kate. Still, always glad to hear DC has yet another great title, and I'm sure bigger Kate fans than I will love it.

----------


## Moriarty

> Batman may be regretting not inviting the 'Tec Team to batburger, followed by dropping them all off with the Super-babysitter (hey, it worked with the robins).....Actually, if Jake ever gets out of that cell, he might be doing his own version of that.  :P


aw, now i wish we could get a similar story with Bruce, Cass, Steph, Kate and Clayface at Batburger.

----------


## Caivu

Issue #1 is currently #5 on Comixology, which is one place  higher than the Rebirth issue charted.

Screenshot_20170319-092557.jpg

That's a good sign so far. I saw some not-so-encouraging projections for the early issues, so we'll see how this snapshot bears out.

----------


## Bat-Meal

> aw, now i wish we could get a similar story with Bruce, Cass, Steph, Kate and Clayface at Batburger.


Maybe they'll still go to the Ballet or Baseball at the end of the arc, with any luck.  Although that might only be Bruce, Kate and Cass - but if they included other team members that would be nice.

----------


## Assam

> Maybe they'll still go to the Ballet or Baseball at the end of the arc, with any luck.  Although that might only be Bruce, Kate and Cass - but if they included other team members that would be nice.


That's the kind of ending I'm expecting/hoping for, even though I want Kate to be more of a cool aunt than a surrogate mom, since that would be a slap in the face to Babs. 

Honestly, even if we don't get that, so long as NO ONE LEAVES, I won't complain.

----------


## Aahz

> Issue #1 is currently #5 on Comixology, which is one place  higher than the Rebirth issue charted.
> 
> That's a good sign so far. I saw some not-so-encouraging projections for the early issues, so we'll see how this snapshot bears out.


Currently it is a #12, which is not that great for a number #1 issue. I'm not sure how the difital sales compare to the physical ones, but most of the comics that above Batwoman on the list sold a little bit above 40K last month.

----------


## Caivu

> Currently it is a #12, which is not that great for a number #1 issue. I'm not sure how the difital sales compare to the physical ones, but most of the comics that above Batwoman on the list sold a little bit above 40K last month.


Not sure what list you're looking at, but I took this screenshot less than a minute ago:

Screenshot_20170320-082917.jpg

As for physical sales, it had about 52,000 last month (and that's adjusting 10% down due to returnability). Functionally it's also issue #2, but that's a quibble.

----------


## Aahz

> Not sure what list you're looking at, but I took this screenshot less than a minute ago:
> 
> Screenshot_20170320-082917.jpg


I was looking here.

----------


## Caivu

> I was looking here.


Taking the average, it's still top 10.

----------


## Caivu

BW_4_cover.jpg

*BATWOMAN #4*

Written by MARGUERITE BENNETT and JAMES TYNION IV • Art and cover by STEVE EPTING • Variant cover by J.G. JONES

Retailers: This issue will ship with two covers. Please see the order form for details. Includes a code for a free digital download of this issue.

“The Many Arms Of Death” finale! Batwoman's been following the trail of the deadly weapon Monster Venom, while simultaneously trying to discover what became of her lost lover, Safiyah…but what happens when those two roads meet? And how does it all connect to the death of Batwoman's mother? A terrifying new threat is unleashed on the world when the true nature of the Many Arms Of Death is revealed!

On sale JUNE 21 • 32 pg, FC, $3.99 US • RATED T+

----------


## Assam

> BW_4_cover.jpg
> 
> *BATWOMAN #4*
> 
> Written by MARGUERITE BENNETT and JAMES TYNION IV • Art and cover by STEVE EPTING • Variant cover by J.G. JONES
> 
> Retailers: This issue will ship with two covers. Please see the order form for details. Includes a code for a free digital download of this issue.
> 
> “The Many Arms Of Death” finale! Batwoman's been following the trail of the deadly weapon Monster Venom, while simultaneously trying to discover what became of her lost lover, Safiyah…but what happens when those two roads meet? And how does it all connect to the death of Batwoman's mother? A terrifying new threat is unleashed on the world when the true nature of the Many Arms Of Death is revealed!
> ...


Please link me to the June solicits! I can't find them anywhere.

----------


## Frontier

Curious to see how this is going to tie back to Kate's Mom...

----------


## Caivu

> Please link me to the June solicits! I can't find them anywhere.


They should be up on Newsarama right now.




> Curious to see how this is going to tie back to Kate's Mom...


As long as she's not still alive...

My guess is that the Many Arms of Death were involved in the kidnapping. I had always figured the Religion of Crime had been responsible, but maybe the two are linked somehow.

----------


## millernumber1

> Please link me to the June solicits! I can't find them anywhere.


http://www.newsarama.com/33652-dc-co...citations.html

----------


## Caivu

e202d048-04b0-4dcd-99ff-b48b18339834.jpg

March 21st is, according to J.H. Williams III, Kate's birthday.

So, happy birthday, Kate!

----------


## Man-Thing

The June solicits for Tec make me wonder if Kate is going to be phased out of Tec after the end of this current arc.

----------


## Caivu

> The June solicits for Tec make me wonder if Kate is going to be phased out of Tec after the end of this current arc.


She's not.

Screenshot_20170321-104502.jpg

----------


## Man-Thing

Excellent! Having timeline conundrums is a small price to pay for more Kate  :Smile:

----------


## The Whovian

> Attachment 46915
> 
> March 21st is, according to J.H. Williams III, Kate's birthday.
> 
> So, happy birthday, Kate!


Sweet! Happy Birthday Kate!

----------


## adrikito

Wow... Happy birthday batwoman, kate.

----------


## Aahz

> Attachment 46915
> 
> March 21st is, according to J.H. Williams III, Kate's birthday.
> 
> So, happy birthday, Kate!


Thats also one of the dates for Dicks Birthday.

----------


## Caivu

> Thats also one of the dates for Dicks Birthday.


I've heard of March 20th, but not the 21st. Probably has something to do with wanting his birthday to be the first day of spring.

----------


## Aahz

> I've heard of March 20th, but not the 21st. Probably has something to do with wanting his birthday to be the first day of spring.


IIRC Robin Annual #4 says first day of Spring which can be March 19th, 20th or 21st, and the timeline in the Nightwing Year One TPB says March 21st.

But Dick has also a few other canonic Birthday dates, but  March 21st seems to be the most popular among his fans.

----------


## Caivu

> IIRC Robin Annual #4 says first day of Spring which can be March 19th, 20th or 21st, and the timeline in the Nightwing Year One TPB says March 21st.
> 
> But Dick has also a few other canonic Birthday dates, but  March 21st seems to be the most popular among his fans.


'Kay.

Wouldn't the Dick thread be a better place to bring that up, then?

----------


## Frontier

Happy birthday Batwoman  :Smile: .

----------


## Caivu

Maybe this means nothing. Maybe it does.

Screenshot_20170321-223631.jpg

Screenshot_20170315-182645.jpg

----------


## Frontier

Batwoman in _Green Arrow_ would be...random. I'm not even sure how I see those two interacting. 

I could see a Canary/Batwoman team-up and friendship happening somewhere, probably _Birds of Prey_  :Smile: .

----------


## Caivu

> Batwoman in _Green Arrow_ would be...random. I'm not even sure how I see those two interacting. 
> 
> I could see a Canary/Batwoman team-up and friendship happening somewhere, probably _Birds of Prey_ .


Yeah, their interaction would be more based around Dinah. It wouldn't be a stretch to think Kate would be a fan of Black Canary the band, and they would have military stuff in common, too (Dinah's time in Team-7 is still a thing, right?). 

I think Ollie would bug the hell out of Kate, which would make it fun.

----------


## The Whovian

> Maybe this means nothing. Maybe it does.
> 
> Screenshot_20170321-223631.jpg
> 
> Screenshot_20170315-182645.jpg


I don't want Batwoman in GA. I just don't think it would be a good fit.

----------


## Caivu

Yesterday was Kate's birthday. Today is Diana's. So... WonderBat art!

IMG_20170322_150615.jpg

IMG_20170322_145539.jpg

IMG_20170322_145531.jpg

Best I can figure, these are all done by someone whose Twitter handle is @your_mouster.

----------


## Frontier

> Yesterday was Kate's birthday. Today is Diana's. So... WonderBat art!
> 
> IMG_20170322_150615.jpg
> 
> IMG_20170322_145539.jpg
> 
> IMG_20170322_145531.jpg
> 
> Best I can figure, these are all done by someone whose Twitter handle is @your_mouster.


Cute _and_ sexy  :Embarrassment: .

----------


## Caivu

Batwoman #2 variant cover by J.G. Jones:

BW2var.jpg

----------


## ProgmanX

> Batwoman #2 variant cover by J.G. Jones:
> 
> Attachment 46993


Kind of a step down from #1's, but at least it doesn't make me go "WTF were you thinking" like the Jae Lee variant.

----------


## The Whovian

> Batwoman #2 variant cover by J.G. Jones:
> 
> Attachment 46993


I usually like Jones' art, but I don't care for this cover.

----------


## Caivu

From Alvaro Martínez's Instagram, probably from 'Tec #959 based on when it was posted:

Screenshot_20170328-021907.jpg

----------


## Bat-Meal

I wonder why he's taking her to Fox Tech - does that place include a hospital?  

Are those wires or bandages, or both, attached around her waist you think.

----------


## Caivu

> I wonder why he's taking her to Fox Tech - does that place include a hospital?  
> 
> Are those wires or bandages, or both, attached around her waist you think.


Maybe a hospital, or maybe whatever injury she has is technologically-based since the villain for this story is a robot, and can be fixed there. Like she inhaled nanobots or something. Either way, they still look to be on course to become Fire-Forged Friends, which is good. I wonder if that means Kate'll help Luke in the last few issues of "League of Shadows", and he returns the favor here.

I think that's just her cape bunched up.

----------


## Caivu

Today marks the 2nd anniversary of Batwoman Annual #2, the final issue of her first series. It's a fitting date considering what a joke that book turned into in its final 15 issues.

----------


## millernumber1

> Today marks the 2nd anniversary of Batwoman Annual #2, the final issue of her first series. It's a fitting date considering what a joke that book turned into in its final 15 issues.


Sadly true. At least Kate's got a solo again.  :Smile:

----------


## Assam

> Sadly true. At least Kate's got a solo again.


Be sure to let know if the book is anything special. I like Kate well enough, but with all the other books I'm reading, I'm not picking it up unless it's around the same level of quality as Elegy.

----------


## Caivu

> Be sure to let know if the book is anything special. I like Kate well enough, but with all the other books I'm reading, I'm not picking it up unless it's around the same level of quality as Elegy.


Honestly, it could be pretty close. After one issue and based on the solicits, the first arc might very well be a spiritual sequel to Elegy.

Also, a new preview panel from issue #2:

Screenshot_20170401-172427.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Detective Comics #955 variant cover by Rafael Albuquerque:

f3c9753e-3707-4dac-845e-217ec3fca370.jpg

----------


## darkseidpwns

I liked the Nocturna arc.

----------


## Caivu

> I liked the Nocturna arc.


Uh... _why?_

Is it still April Fool's Day where you are?

----------


## Caivu

"The Gotham City _what?_"
"Sirens! You, me, *Kate*, and Babs!"

Holy crap.

----------


## Man-Thing

AHHHHHHHHHHHH! It's happening!  :Big Grin: 




> Uh... _why?_
> 
> Is it still April Fool's Day where you are?


I mean, there _was_ some nice, interesting stuff in there, but it was all sort of mired by the whole, you know, physical and mental rape going on at the same time...

----------


## Frontier

> "The Gotham City _what?_"
> "Sirens! You, me, *Kate*, and Babs!"
> 
> Holy crap.


I kept trying to figure out what Harley was saying after the "you, me," part  :Stick Out Tongue: .

Batwoman as DLC confirmed  :Wink: ?

----------


## Man-Thing

Wasn't there a leak suggesting that Kate was going to be one of those alt-costumes for Batman that came with new voice acting and stuff, similar to the various Green Lantern "costumes"?

----------


## Caivu

> Wasn't there a leak suggesting that Kate was going to be one of those alt-costumes for Batman that came with new voice acting and stuff, similar to the various Green Lantern "costumes"?


There was indeed.

----------


## Caivu

52_48.jpg

Today marks the 10th anniversary of _52_ #48, where Kate was stabbed in the heart, then was all "nah, not today" and ripped the knife out to kill the guy who stabbed her and save the Question's life at the same time.

I consider this to be her "in a cave, with a box of scraps!" Moment.

----------


## millernumber1

> 52_48.jpg
> 
> Today marks the 10th anniversary of _52_ #48, where Kate was stabbed in the heart, then was all "nah, not today" and ripped the knife out to kill the guy who stabbed her and save the Question's life at the same time.
> 
> I consider this to be her "in a cave, with a box of scraps!" Moment.


Nice! That is a pretty badass moment (though I'm still curious to know if it's plausible  :Smile:  )

----------


## Man-Thing

So I recently ordered the trades I was missing, since a friend started reading Elegy and wants to borrow more as she goes through so I wanted to make sure I had everything on-hand, and I must say I would have collected the Andreyko run differently. 

I would have waited on This Blood is Thick and included the Annual in that trade, so you have a complete story in one volume, even if that story has a bit of a disappointing ending.

I would have collected 25 through 31 in a "Webs" trade.

I would have put the material from Secret Origins, issues 32, 33, & 34, and the Future's End one-shot in a trade and called it "Nocturnal Habits" or "...and I Shall Become a Bat" (hur hur vampire & year one puns) or something.

I would have then collected 35 through the end of the series in the Unknowns trade, as it currently is, so I guess leave that one alone.

Basically, I think the material collected in the Webs trade should have been split up a bit. Not sure why they organized it as they did.

----------


## Caivu

> Not sure why they organized it as they did.


I think at the end of the day, it's because they didn't care anymore. Pretty much very other creative choice about the book around that time indicates that, so I don't see why the TPBs would be any different.

----------


## Caivu

batwomanwip2.jpg

*BATWOMAN #5*

Written by MARGUERITE BENNETT and JAMES TYNION IV—Art and cover by STEPHANIE HANS—Variant cover by J.G. JONES

*Includes a code for a free digital download of this issue.

“THE MANY ARMS OF DEATH” epilogue! In this special one-off issue with art by Stephanie Hans (Angela), learn the truth of what went down between Kate and Safiyah, which led to the future Batwoman having to leave Coryana for what she was sure would be forever!

On sale JULY 19 • 32 pg, FC, $3.99 US • RATED T+

----------


## Frontier

I hope this isn't another bait-and-switch with Stephanie Hans...

----------


## millernumber1

What bait and switch have they pulled before?

----------


## Frontier

> What bait and switch have they pulled before?


She was originally slated for the Batman/Catwoman story after "I am Suicide."

----------


## The Whovian

A guest artist already?

----------


## Caivu

> A guest artist already?


Why not? It's for an epilogue issue, so it's not like it's in the middle of the arc. Plus Hans is awesome.

I'm guessing there will be a guest for #6 as well, since I'm predicting it'll be a single-issue story.

----------


## millernumber1

> She was originally slated for the Batman/Catwoman story after "I am Suicide."


Oh, I see! Thanks.

----------


## Caivu

Batwoman #1 moved up two places from the Rebirth issue! Niiice.

Screenshot_20170409-112049.jpg

Still need the actual numbers, but I imagine they're comparable to last month.

----------


## adrikito

> Batwoman #1 moved up two places from the Rebirth issue! Niiice.
> 
> Screenshot_20170409-112049.jpg
> 
> Still need the actual numbers, but I imagine they're comparable to last month.


In the TOP 20? WOW.  :Cool:

----------


## The Whovian

> Batwoman #1 moved up two places from the Rebirth issue! Niiice.
> 
> Attachment 47804
> 
> Still need the actual numbers, but I imagine they're comparable to last month.


Awesome!!!!

----------


## Caivu

To put this in perspective, a Batwoman issue hasn't been in the top 20 since November 2011.

----------


## M L A

> Batwoman #1 moved up two places from the Rebirth issue! Niiice.
> 
> Attachment 47804
> 
> Still need the actual numbers, but I imagine they're comparable to last month.


Flash was 57k and 55k last month, so I imagine both are gonna be 50k-54k this month. So Kate sold about 50k-54k probably.

----------


## Aahz

> Batwoman #1 moved up two places from the Rebirth issue! Niiice.
> 
> Attachment 47804
> 
> Still need the actual numbers, but I imagine they're comparable to last month.


Can you give a link?

----------


## Caivu

> Can you give a link?


http://ow.ly/1L8T30aGWZ7

----------


## Aahz

Thanks, so that probaly means that this issues sold similarly as the Rebirth Issue, will be intersting to see how big the drop to the second issue will be. The absolute numbers are much lower than what the titles in the first wave of rebirth tites had, but maybe they were just over hyped, and Batwoman will not drop as strong as them.

----------


## Caivu

Batwoman Rebirth #1: 52,650

Batwoman #1: 54,849

----------


## ProgmanX

> Batwoman Rebirth #1: 52,650
> 
> Batwoman #1: 54,849


That...I feel like this is super weird for more than one reason.

----------


## Caivu

> That...I feel like this is super weird for more than one reason.


It really is. I checked, and Batwoman is only the eighth Rebirth series that started with a one-shot to have a sales _increase_ from the one-shot to the #1. Eighth out of _twenty-three._ And it's only the _second_ Bat-related title to do so, fourth if you count Suicide Squad and Titans because of Harley and Nightwing (the first, of course, being Batman).

----------


## ProgmanX

> It really is. I checked, and Batwoman is only the eighth Rebirth series that started with a one-shot to have a sales _increase_ from the one-shot to the #1. Eighth out of _twenty-two._ And it's only the _second_ Bat-related title to do so, fourth if you count Suicide Squad and Titans because of Harley and Nightwing (the first, of course, being Batman).


But we're talking about a difference of around 2,000 copies. Sure, that's not insignificant, but were these people specifically avoiding the Rebirth one-shot...or...wait, but that would imply that basically everyone who bought the one-shot bought #1 but that's not how that works. Was there a sales drop from the people who bought the one-shot, and didn't like it, but then a _boost_ for those who didn't think they needed the one-shot (not entirely inaccurate) to understand the story? 

What the actual hell is gonna happen with #2?

----------


## Caivu

> But we're talking about a difference of around 2,000 copies. Sure, that's not insignificant, but were these people specifically avoiding the Rebirth one-shot...or...wait, but that would imply that basically everyone who bought the one-shot bought #1 but that's not how that works. Was there a sales drop from the people who bought the one-shot, and didn't like it, but then a _boost_ for those who didn't think they needed the one-shot (not entirely inaccurate) to understand the story? 
> 
> What the actual hell is gonna happen with #2?


I've heard that a typical drop from a #1 to a #2 is about 20%, so if issue #2 gets about 44k, that would be expected. Best we can do is signal boost the hell out of it again.

----------


## ProgmanX

> I've heard that a typical drop from a #1 to a #2 is about 20%, so if issue #2 gets about 44k, that would be expected. Best we can do is signal boost the hell out of it again.


Isn't this technically #3, though? God, this is weird.

----------


## Aahz

> But we're talking about a difference of around 2,000 copies. Sure, that's not insignificant, but were these people specifically avoiding the Rebirth one-shot...or...wait, but that would imply that basically everyone who bought the one-shot bought #1 but that's not how that works. Was there a sales drop from the people who bought the one-shot, and didn't like it, but then a _boost_ for those who didn't think they needed the one-shot (not entirely inaccurate) to understand the story? 
> 
> What the actual hell is gonna happen with #2?


These are if i understand it correctly, the numbers of issues that were ordered by comic stores, not the numbers they actually sold. And for the the first few (3 ?) issues of a series the stores can usually return unsold issues, they might order more in this case and #1 are any collectors items, you will usually see a drop of something like 30%-50% from issue #1 to issue #2 or #3.

----------


## Caivu

> Isn't this technically #3, though? God, this is weird.


A #3? What's the other issue?

----------


## Caivu

> These are if i understand it correctly, the numbers of issues that were ordered by comic stores, not the numbers they actually sold. And for the the first few (3 ?) issues of a series the stores can usually return unsold issues, they might order more in this case and #1 are any collectors items, you will usually see a drop of something like 30%-50% from issue #1 to issue #2 or #3.


I don't see why any of that matters. An increase is still an increase. If what you say is right, why did most of the series that stared with one-shots not have higher numbers for their number #1s? Stuff like Blue Beetle or Cyborg I could understand not having those, but that was also true for titles like Superman, Nightwing, RHatO, Green Arrow, and Teen Titans.

----------


## ProgmanX

> A #3? What's the other issue?


No, no. Isn't this technically _issue #3 of the book_. Because of the one-shot. So there'd be a drop, except there wasn't. Hence, weird.

----------


## Caivu

> No, no. Isn't this technically _issue #3 of the book_. Because of the one-shot. So there'd be a drop, except there wasn't. Hence, weird.


There's the one-shot and issue #1. What's the third issue?

----------


## ProgmanX

> There's the one-shot and issue #1. What's the third issue?


#2. What is this, "Who's On First"?

----------


## Caivu

> #2. What is this, "Who's On First"?


Oh okay, the _upcoming_ issue. I thought you were talking about one that was already out. My bad.

----------


## Caivu

I recently noticed this brilliant connection from the Rebirth issue:

Screenshot_20170410-142931.jpg

Screenshot_20170410-142815.jpg

----------


## Man-Thing

I will be so happy if Alice speaks in Lewis Carroll quotes again  :Smile:

----------


## Caivu

> I will be so happy if Alice speaks in Lewis Carroll quotes again


That reminded me...

Screenshot_20170415-105730.jpg

I can't find that second part as a quote _anywhere,_ whether related to Carroll or not. If it's really not, then that could be a hint of some changes in Beth, like she hasn't fully reverted back to Alice.

----------


## millernumber1

I want Alice to be a semi-hero, not a villain.  :Smile:  We don't need a Batwoman's Joker.

----------


## Caivu

I figured out that the approximate location of Coryana is somewhere along this semicircle:

Coryana.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Well, Kate's got herself a solid new archenemy! Knife had a good true first outing in this week's issue, with enough to establish her while leaving plenty of room for growth.

----------


## Man-Thing

I kind of want a "Batwoman: Year One" mini, that goes over the relevant stuff from 52, but from Kate's perspective, and with her Elegy-onwards design. Could also perhaps massage in all the new continuity on her background and early days that has popped up since that was written.

----------


## Caivu

> I kind of want a "Batwoman: Year One" mini, that goes over the relevant stuff from 52, but from Kate's perspective, and with her Elegy-onwards design. Could also perhaps massage in all the new continuity on her background and early days that has popped up since that was written.


I think I'd like that after the next reboot (which is hopefully many years away).

----------


## Man-Thing

Which also leads me to realize that I don't have a great handle of Kate's timeline. When exactly is 52 for her, in relation to when she started being Batwoman? I realize that post-New52 they don't really reference stuff from the old continuity much anymore, but it's an important series for her, in that it was her inaugural appearance. Anyone god a good beat by beat of Kate's personal timeline of events over the course of her life?

----------


## Caivu

> Which also leads me to realize that I don't have a great handle of Kate's timeline. When exactly is 52 for her, in relation to when she started being Batwoman? I realize that post-New52 they don't really reference stuff from the old continuity much anymore, but it's an important series for her, in that it was her inaugural appearance. Anyone god a good beat by beat of Kate's personal timeline of events over the course of her life?


It's not easy to say, but:

I think the implication is that Kate first becomes Batwoman during 52 (as in, during the year it takes place).

Batwoman: Elegy takes place 18 months after Kate was stabbed (near the end of the year in 52). So already there's some issues with what the "Batwoman Begins" arc said, that she's only been Batwoman for 2 years (even negating all of that, it would mean that the entire New 52 would have to have happened in less than 2 years, since she shows up in B&RE, which is one of the last things to happen in the New 52, and _months_ pass between some of the arcs in her first series). This is part of why I think she's missing some years due to the timeline being messed with.

----------


## Man-Thing

So it's....

Age 12 when she & Beth got kidnapped.

Age 20 she goes into the military.

By somewhere in age 22, she's been kicked out do to Don't Ask Don't Tell.

Age 23 is her missing year on Coryana.

Age 24 is when she has her back alley moment where Batman shows up to save her and she decides to do the vigilante thing, right after having her fight/breakup with Renee.

We know she was doing this for at least a year, because she was still doing it the next time she ran into Renee during a bar bust, in which Renee says it's been "over a year" since they last saw each other. It was that night that her father discovered her activities and vowed to help her.

When she returns home, her stepmother says she's been "globe-trotting" for around two years, and her father reveals her costume. Which brings us to her being Batwoman at age 27.

That all roughly lines up with the recent Rebirth issue.

Now then.

52 takes place over the course of a year. Renee shows up with the bat signal to Kate in the final day of the 52nd week. If we assume the weekly comic took place in the time it was published, it's marked the week of May 2nd. In the Crime Bible mini, Kate says it was "months" before she saw Renee again after the events of 52, and that it's been the better part of a year since _then_, so we can assume around a full year since 52.

Then there's her part in Final Crisis: Revelations, which again, no idea how long after that is.

Then, finally, we get to Elegy, which is, as you say, 18 months after her getting stabbed, which was in the penultimate month of 52, so Final Crisis must have been somewhere in the intervening half year or so.

Go has "Twenty Years Ago" on the first cover, which features the kidnapping, which would suggest she's 22 "now", so, uh, we've had some timescale sliding. Go's second issue has "Seven Years Ago" and features the mugging attempt where she's saved by Batman, again lining up with a "current" age of 22. Go's final cover is "Four Years Ago" and features her donning the Batwoman costume, which.... doesn't actually work, I don't think. There's just not enough time. She would have to be a minimum of 17 to enter West Point, and then her getting kicked out and meeting Renee and breaking up and fighting crime in stolen gear for a year _could_ work out to her still being 18, by this early time scale, I guess, since the issue starts with her meeting Renee again. Still, if she was meant to be age 22 during Elegy, that's long gone out the window. Would allow for a two year gap after she first dons the suit for the events of 52 and its various follow-ups to occur, either way.

Despite the gap in publishing, Hydrology takes place very shortly after Cutter. A few issues in, Chase talks to Col. Kane and asks him about his kidnapping "a few months ago", putting a bit of a gap between Go and Cutter. This gap is tentatively where I'm putting her 3-issue appearance in Batman, Inc. (Note to self: go read Grayson and see what happened with Kathy post-Inc.)

To Drown the World takes place three or so weeks later (with copious intertwined flashbacks leading us up to "now").

(God I have no life. This is what I do between jobs, apparently.)

The Issue Zero actually has some contradictory continuity, as it states she was training with the Murder of Crows for _three_ years, not two. But, given that she meets up with her father at the end of the third year, the twelve months of hell, and that she talks about it as him trying to test her conviction, perhaps the last twelve months of training began after she arrived back home from two years of globe-trotting. Which rather truncates the time period in which 52 & follow-ups can occur. We're in a post-Flashpoint world by this point though, so perhaps we've already gotten some time dilation going on. There's a page obliquely referencing 52, Final Crisis, and Blackest Night (weee zombie batman), so, those all still occurred. Hmm, actually, if you fudge a little, and say the mugging occurred near the _end_ of the year it's been since she last saw Renee, that could just about work. We know she was doing the vigilante thing for at least two months, per the issue, so if we say she was _only_ doing it on her own for two months, that could just about work. Cuts out a year of solo vigilantism, shifts the two years of globe-trotting up, and adds in the twelve months of hell-training, culminating with her still becoming Batwoman three years after her mugging and still leaves the two years for 52 & Friends to happen. Yeah, okay.

Anyway, World's Finest. Kate says it's been nine months since the first kids went missing. Not sure how long between the first abduction and the thirteenth, which we opened Hyrdology on, happened. They may have said, but I've been power-skimming these issues writing this up. And then there's obviously some time passage here, what with taking a submarine out to visit Wonder Woman, but I've no idea how long. A month at the longest, but likely not more than a week or two, given comic book timescales.

This Blood is Thick opens a bit later. Katherine the Elder is in on the game, Bette is accompanying Kate on DEO duties. I say another few weeks have gone by. And judging by all the set up and rounding up baddies to play decoy for Bats, I'd say another month goes by in this arc, at the very least. I'd say we're potentially a year out from Elegy at this point.

Issue 25 is the Zero Year issue, set "six years ago", centered around Uncle Phil's funeral. It's set while she's still at West Point though. That... doesn't at all line up with "six years ago", I don't think. Even if we assume it's late in her time at West Point, so she's 22, that'd make her 28 in the present, which doesn't leave near enough time for all the stuff that happens between her becoming Batwoman and the the end of This Blood. If we compress 52, Final Crisis, Blackest Night, et al, to a year or less, then maybe? We could possibly assume that Elegy through This Blood is only like half a year, that still adds up to two full years plus 52, so at least three years as Batwoman, which added to the three years since the mugging and the missing year in Coryana means that it's been at least 7 years since she got ousted from West Point. Ugh damn universe-altering crossover events. Then again, this was in the middle of New52, and we hadn't yet had Rebirth to help people get their missing time back, perhaps the "six years ago" thing doesn't _have_ to work right now. I guess this also confirms that Kate was off at West Point during Zero Year.

Anyway... Andreyko's run. Ugh. Do I have to? The end of This Blood is Thick in Annual 1 sees a three week time-skip as we get a "where are they now" flash forward. Webs happens over the course of a week or so. The next three issues happen a bit after, since whatever the fuck the vampiress' name is has been acquitted and is out of prison again and Jay and Mags are dealing with legal stuff. in The Unknowns, Dr Huss states it's been over a month since Kate came in for a session, which we last saw during the three-issues between Webs and Unknowns. It's also been "weeks" since had heard form her father about how Beth's recovery was going. The whole arc takes place over the course of a couple weeks, if that, so not that much actual time passage beyond the initial time skip. So that's... from Annual 1 to Annual 2 is a period of a few months, or thereabouts. We'll call it three months, just to be tidy about the whole thing.

Flashing forward a bit... we know that it's been at the very least least "a few months" of Kate "picking up Batman's scraps", alluding to her cameos in other bat books over the intervening two years real time (weee sliding comic book timescales). Batwoman Begins implies that she started being Batwoman "two years ago", which.... well I've already talked at length about compressing 52, Final Crisis, et all to allow that sort of thing to work. Col Kane has also apparently been back in town for a bit. I don't see her checking in with him in Eternal, flipping through my friend's trades, so maybe some time after that? Who can say. I don't know how DC expects us to have everything in Kate's time under the mask to fit in to just two years.

Either way, Kate's currently 29, give or take however many months.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I still haven't eaten breakfast.

----------


## Caivu

> Age 20 she goes into the military.
> 
> By somewhere in age 22, she's been kicked out do to Don't Ask Don't Tell.


20 was when she _left_ the Army. By 22 she was partying it up off the coast of Monaco.




> Go has "Twenty Years Ago" on the first cover, which features the kidnapping, which would suggest she's 22 "now", so, uh, we've had some timescale sliding. Go's second issue has "Seven Years Ago" and features the mugging attempt where she's saved by Batman, again lining up with a "current" age of 22. Go's final cover is "Four Years Ago" and features her donning the Batwoman costume, which.... doesn't actually work, I don't think. There's just not enough time. She would have to be a minimum of 17 to enter West Point, and then her getting kicked out and meeting Renee and breaking up and fighting crime in stolen gear for a year _could_ work out to her still being 18, by this early time scale, I guess, since the issue starts with her meeting Renee again. Still, if she was meant to be age 22 during Elegy, that's long gone out the window. Would allow for a two year gap after she first dons the suit for the events of 52 and its various follow-ups to occur, either way.


Your math is off. If the flashback in the first issue of "Go" happened 20 years ago, she'd be 32 "now".




> Anyway, World's Finest. Kate says it's been nine months since the first kids went missing. Not sure how long between the first abduction and the thirteenth, which we opened Hyrdology on, happened. They may have said, but I've been power-skimming these issues writing this up. And then there's obviously some time passage here, what with taking a submarine out to visit Wonder Woman, but I've no idea how long. A month at the longest, but likely not more than a week or two, given comic book timescales.


I'd have to check, but IIRC, at the time of Batwoman #1 the kidnappings had been going on for three or four months.

The trip with Wonder Woman actually happens fairly quickly, since I think Bones or Chase mentions that Kate's been out of Gotham only a couple days.

----------


## Man-Thing

Right you are! That's what I get for doing this all on an empty stomach and three cups of coffee.

----------


## Aahz

I don't think that 52 is still canon in the new 52. Parts of Kates storyline maybe in some form but defintally not the whole thing, and Kates story could have probaly have taken place in few days (it wasn't such a big subplot iirc).

Btw, wich story line was "Go"?

----------


## Caivu

> I don't think that 52 is still canon in the new 52. Parts of Kates storyline maybe in some form but defintally not the whole thing, and Kates story could have probaly have taken place in few days (it wasn't such a big subplot iirc).


Gee, I'm not surprised to see you lowballing how long she's been active. Again.  :Stick Out Tongue: 

Besides, didn't Superman Reborn put everything back, anyway?




> Btw, wich story line was "Go"?


Right after Elegy proper, but it was collected in that TPB. 'Tec #958-#960.

----------


## Aahz

> Gee, I'm not surprised to see you lowballing how long she's been active. Again.


Appart from Kates orgin nothing that happend in 52 is canon.

The whole the Trinty goes on vacation for a year seems not to be part of the continuity, Rene was never Question and Vic Sage is aperaently still alive, Billy started as Shazam in the new 52 so the whole Black Adam story is out (and the JSA who was iirc heavily inolved in that story is also not back)  and  as well as the Plot arround Booster Gold and Skeets (because that was iirc Mr. Mind who is also a Shazam villain), without the JSA there is also no Infinity Inc. so this plot is also out, which iirc just leaves the Space plot which also doesn't work since infinite crisis is apperantly also not part of the new 52 timeline.

So I don't see how this should take up a year in the new 52 timeline.

----------


## Caivu

> Appart from Kates orgin nothing that happend in 52 is canon.


Her kidnapping and stabbing by the Religion of Crime is. That was referred to in her first series. Plus Renee knows Kate is Batwoman, which she found out during 52, and no new version of her finding out has been shown or referred to.

----------


## Caivu

Batwoman #3 variant cover by J.G. Jones:

IMG_npgqli.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

> So it's....
> 
> Age 12 when she & Beth got kidnapped.
> 
> Age 20 she goes into the military.
> 
> By somewhere in age 22, she's been kicked out do to Don't Ask Don't Tell.
> 
> Age 23 is her missing year on Coryana.
> ...


Nice breakdown! Thank you

----------


## Man-Thing

> Batwoman #3 variant cover by J.G. Jones:
> 
> IMG_npgqli.jpg


That's pretty sick. Makes me wonder about various things, and what that cover means...

----------


## Caivu

> That's pretty sick. Makes me wonder about various things, and what that cover means...


It doesn't seem to connect to the solicit at all. Nothing in it about technology, computer viruses, cyberwarfare, or anything like that.

----------


## Man-Thing

> It doesn't seem to connect to the solicit at all. Nothing in it about technology, computer viruses, cyberwarfare, or anything like that.


Which is why it has me wondering. Like, that's Knife's mask there on the computer circuitry, yeh? Super weird alt cover if it truly has nothing to do with the story inside. Puzzling.

----------


## Caivu

> Which is why it has me wondering. Like, that's Knife's mask there on the computer circuitry, yeh? Super weird alt cover if it truly has nothing to do with the story inside. Puzzling.


Huh, I didn't even think of that being her mask. The best I had was that TMAoD was going to maybe execute an information warfare attack of some kind, or even expose Kate's identity to the world.

----------


## Caivu

Switching gears a bit, I've gotta point out connections like this more often:

IMG_gyrayu.jpg

IMG_7zhpq7.jpg

IMG_mcrwf1.jpg

Top from Batwoman vol. 1 #5, bottom two from Batwoman:Rebirth. 

I absolutely love stuff like this. There have been other examples of these type of connections  in the Rebirth era,  and they occur throughout Kate's publication history, across multiple writers. I'm not talking about major story beats here, but detail sort of stuff, things that could easily be overlooked. The way she talks, the kind if food she eats, even the way she stands in certain situations. Things that aren't called attention to. _It's so damn cool_. It shows a lot of care and makes her story feel so much richer as a result.

----------


## Man-Thing

So, now that I've eaten and such, revised timeline with actual correct math:

Age 12: On her twelfth birthday, Kate, her twin sister Beth, and their mother get kidnapped. Her mother is killed, and Kate is the only one who makes it home.

Age ??: Enters West Point, largely misses Zero Year due to being out of town

Age 20: Gets kicked out for Don't Ask Don't Tell

Ages 21~22: Bad decisions :P. Eventually, she finds herself on the island of Coryana, and nearly gets herself killed while freediving.

Ages 22~23: Kate's "Missing Year" on Coryana.

Age 23: Kate returns to Gotham and meets Renee while being pulled over for speeding, and proceeding to try to pick her up while receiving her ticket. Some time later, she runs into Renee again at a bar. They have a brief but passionate relationship which ends in a nasty fight.

Age 24: Batman breaks up an attempted mugging, Kate gets inspired. After a couple months of vigilantism, her father figures out what she's up to, and sets her up for training with his Murder of Crows.

Ages 25 & 26: Two years of "globe-trotting", as her step-mother calls it, as she travels around and does practical training with the Crows.

Age 27: Kate returns home and sees her father for the first time in two years. He shows off her new costume and base, before sending her off on twelve months of hell in what she later realizes is a test of her conviction.

Age 28: Afterwards, she dons her costume again and properly starts her career as Batwoman.

Sliding timescale follows:

The year-long events of 52. Renee walks back into Kate's life, which gets her tangled up in The Religion of Crime, resulting in Kate getting stabbed in the chest.

Kate gets drawn back in to Renee's fight with The Religion of crime a few times over the course of the next eighteen months. Kate and Renee break things off somewhere in there. This includes the events of Crime Bible and Final Crisis Revelations. Kate is also involved in The Battle For the Cowl after Batman's "death", as well as popping up in a few other places.

The events of Elegy begin. The events of Go immediately follow. Kate learns that her sister is alive and going by the name Alice right as she inadvertently kills her. It is currently about twenty years since Kate's kidnapping at age twelve, according to the cover of Go. She should be around age 32 here, and has been Batwoman for roughly four years. Kate formally meets Maggie Sawyer for the first time at a ball during her birthday. Not sure how old she is at this point thanks to DC's sliding timescales. But we know it was March 21st :P

Kate's involvement in the overseas events of Batman, Incorporated occur. She is sacrificed, again, but revived in a Lazarus Pit. (Still wondering if that's going to come up in the current Tec arc at all)

The events of Cutter occur. Kate has been on rocky ground with her father following the fallout of Elegy & Go, and her cousin Bette reveals that she is the sometimes-Titan Flamebird, and asks to be Kate's partner.

Not long after, the events of Hydrology begin. It has already been three or four months since the kidnappings started. It has been "a few months" since Col Kane was kidnapped by Alice. we can surmise that the kidnappings occurred around the same time. It is also only a "couple weeks" since Kate first met (and danced) with Maggie. Bette gets hospitalized, Kate starts working for the DEO.

The events of World's Finest occur. It has now been roughly nine months since the first kidnappings began, meaning around half a year has passed since Hydrology began and Kate started dating Maggie. Kate teams up with Wonder Woman, murders some gods, and asks Mags to marry her. Not a bad week, all things considered.

This Blood is Thick opens some weeks later. Kate has been blackmailed by the DEO into helping them hunt down Batman in return for the release of her sister, who was revived by The Religion of Crime some months after her death. A few weeks, potentially a couple months of setup and careful planning ensues. Things still do not end well for the DEO. Three weeks later, Alice is receiving treatement, Kate's father is taking some time off, as has Bette, and Kate is back on the crime beat.

Some few weeks later, the events of Webs begin. Kate becomes caught up in the goings on of a professional thief, known as Wolf Spider. Unbeknownst to her, he happens to be a close friend of hers. While their in and out of costumed lives intertwine, she meets Nocturna during a battle at Arkham Asylum. Maggie is served papers by her ex-husband for a new custody agreement for their daughter.

Some time later, potentially months, the events of the three-issue un-named interlude arc begin. I'm going to be calling this "Nocturnal Species", the name on the cover of Issue #32. Kate fights with Nocturna, now released from Arkham, while Maggie fights her ex in court. Kate makes a deal with said ex, such that she'll leave Maggie in exchange for a favorable custody arrangement. Nocturna then proceeds to sneak into Kate's home and rape her. (No, we're not buying the "well you really wanted it, deep down" excuse, DC, that's called victim blaming)

"Over a month" later, the events of The Unknowns (or, as it was known in the single issues prior to the super-title being dropped; "How the Hell Did We Get Here?") begins. Kate's been hypnotized/vampirized by Nocturna, who now has her as the passive partner in a "relationship", and is basically destroying Kate mentally. A series of events occurs involving Kate, her returned sister Alice (now doing much better), Clayface, Ragman, and Etrigan forming a super team to go fight Morgan le Fay (Nocturna, incidentally, being one of her underlings). Kate gets better, and goes to reconcile with Mags, though they ultimately don't get back together long term. 

Around this time, the Convergence occurs, and Gotham is temporarily encased in a dome. Batwoman reunites with Renee during the crisis, and they (and Huntress) help out while Two-Face has a wicked case of identity crisis.

By around this time, I'd say it's safe to bet that roughly another year has passed, and that Kate is now age 33, or thereabouts.

I have no idea how much time passes in-universe between the end of Batwoman Annual #2 and the beginning of Rise of the Batmen. A year or two, maybe?

Rise of the Batmen happens. etc.... That brings us up to present day, I think. Batwoman Rebirth tries to indicate that Kate's only been Batwoman for maybe two years, but, yeah, no, it's been like five or six.

----------


## Caivu

Very thorough.

Maggie and Kate's first meeting looks out of place, since they met during Elegy, not Cutter.

Since Batwoman's numbered issues ended at issue #40 and the New 52 stopped with issue #52 on the remaining titles, a year seems reasonable. 

Kate was involved in the final battle of B&RE,  and Cass adopted the Orphan name about a month after that. So Rebirth 'Tec I'd say begins maybe two months or less after that scene? I think the first arc of Rebirth Batman happens before it since it takes place over a longer span of time than 'Tec.

----------


## Man-Thing

Ah cripes, I'll fix the Mags meeting thing. Other than that, glad to see I didn't fubar anything too badly  :Smile:

----------


## Man-Thing

Oh man, looking at ComicBookDB, I hadn't realized that her appearance in Batman Eternal basically happens between Webs and Nocturnal Species, and that her "appearance" in Batman & Robin Eternal basically happens right around the start of Tec Rebirth. Where the hell was she for a whole year?!

----------


## Caivu

> Oh man, looking at ComicBookDB, I hadn't realized that her appearance in Batman Eternal basically happens between Webs and Nocturnal Species, and that her "appearance" in Batman & Robin Eternal basically happens right around the start of Tec Rebirth. Where the hell was she for a whole year?!


She _did_ show up in the third Batgirl Annual, but after that, nothing for six months until B&RE.

----------


## Man-Thing

Actually, rereading the Rebirth issue, I'm tempted adjust her timeline with Renee a bit. We've seen their first meeting, when she was pulled over for speeding, but given the seen of her meeting Renee again after coming home from her lost year, can we surmise that while they may have had a hook-up or two prior to her swanning off to Coryana, they didn't actually enter in to a relationship until afterwards? And that it was relatively short-lived, at that?

This would put her Lost Year overlapping ages 22 & 23. She meets Renee again at the bar, per the Rebirth issue. She has a passionate yet short relationship with Renee and they fight and break up, per Issue 0 Interlude. She gets assaulted in the alley the better part of a year later and Batman intervenes. She flies solo in riot gear for a couple months, gets found out, etc, etc.

Yeah, going to go adjust that.

----------


## Caivu

> Actually, rereading the Rebirth issue, I'm tempted adjust her timeline with Renee a bit. We've seen their first meeting, when she was pulled over for speeding, but given the seen of her meeting Renee again after coming home from her lost year, can we surmise that while they may have had a hook-up or two prior to her swanning off to Coryana, they didn't actually enter in to a relationship until afterwards? And that it was relatively short-lived, at that?


Unless it turns out otherwise, I think it's more reasonable that their first meeting happened after Coryana and they didn't have any prior flings. I don't really see evidence of that. But yeah, their relationship was pretty short.

----------


## Man-Thing

Also, given the reveal in this last issue, I'm even more curious to see how this apparently ties back to Kate's mother.

----------


## Caivu

> Also, given the reveal in this last issue, I'm even more curious to see how this apparently ties back to Kate's mother.


Our very own ProgmanX has an idea of what the connection could be, which I really love. Assuming that's correct, I think the two CEOs were the people Kate refused to kill, and now they're back for revenge, since they seem to be going after Kate as _Kate,_ not Batwoman.

----------


## Caivu

Seems like it's been a while since there's been fan art in this thread, so here's some sketch covers:

Screenshot_20170421-121114.jpg
By Jesse Toves

Screenshot_20170415-194946.jpg
By Chad Hardin

Screenshot_20170328-184242.jpg
By Chad Heinrich

----------


## Caivu

More sketch covers! 

IMG_20170423_150950.jpg
By Janet Lee

IMG_20170421_223324.jpg
By Stephane Roux

7363efc9-89e4-42f6-8aca-2bd6e435b470.jpg
By Kevin McCoy

----------


## The Whovian

They're all great, but that one by Janet Lee is amazing!

----------


## millernumber1

> More sketch covers! 
> 
> IMG_20170423_150950.jpg





> They're all great, but that one by Janet Lee is amazing!


It is! I'm used to her going more cute, but that's a really nice and dramatic cover. Didn't know what she was up to - she kinda dropped off the map for a while.

----------


## Hypestyle

Does Batwoman know the secret IDs of the rest of the Bat-heroes?  Do they know who she really is?

----------


## ProgmanX

> Does Batwoman know the secret IDs of the rest of the Bat-heroes?  Do they know who she really is?


As of recently, yes. She's known Bruce was Batman for a while, and presumably figured out who the Robins were just by basic logic. Though as for them knowing her, that wasn't really up to her, not that she seems to care...

----------


## ProgmanX

> Our very own ProgmanX has an idea of what the connection could be, which I really love. Assuming that's correct, I think the two CEOs were the people Kate refused to kill, and now they're back for revenge, since they seem to be going after Kate as _Kate,_ not Batwoman.


_And_ she clearly knows who they are, possibly even aside from that. She asked Julia for the _CEOs_, plural, so she's already very familiar with this company. She's either dealt with the before, met them at high society functions, or any number of things. Though I'm also thinking, perhaps, that since Gabi was Army Intelligence (I can't remember where I read that she was) she may have gotten too deep into investigating the Many Arms of Death and...that's why the kidnapping happened.

I'd like that _a lot_ more than it being a Religion of Crime thing, since it'd flesh out Gabi a bit more.

----------


## millernumber1

> _And_ she clearly knows who they are, possibly even aside from that. She asked Julia for the _CEOs_, plural, so she's already very familiar with this company. She's either dealt with the before, met them at high society functions, or any number of things. Though I'm also thinking, perhaps, that since Gabi was Army Intelligence (I can't remember where I read that she was) she may have gotten too deep into investigating the Many Arms of Death and...that's why the kidnapping happened.
> 
> I'd like that _a lot_ more than it being a Religion of Crime thing, since it'd flesh out Gabi a bit more.


I just want the Gabi thing (and Alice/Beth) to get a plotline so we have more explanation.  :Smile:

----------


## Man-Thing

> I just want the Gabi thing (and Alice/Beth) to get a plotline so we have more explanation.


Whatever the plotline is, I hope Gabi isn't actually alive. Pulling it once with Beth was fine, and great, but pulling it again with the mother would just be distasteful, especially since Kate's father got remarried instead of going off to find her.

----------


## Man-Thing

Was talking with Caivu (I think that's Caivu, apologies if it's not) on twitter about Kate running in to the original Batwoman and how that'd be an interesting dichotomy. I'm kind of surprised it hasn't happened yet, actually. Convergence would have been an ideal place to do that, honestly.

----------


## Caivu

> Was talking with Caivu (I think that's Caivu, apologies if it's not) on twitter about Kate running in to the original Batwoman and how that'd be an interesting dichotomy. I'm kind of surprised it hasn't happened yet, actually. Convergence would have been an ideal place to do that, honestly.


Yeah, that was me. 

One of the things the current series will supposedly do is explore what happens when Kate has her current role stripped from her in some way, just like what happened with her military career. The original Batwoman returning due to Rebirthy shenanigans or something and taking over would be an unlikely but valid way to do that.

----------


## Man-Thing

Oh, yes, I like that thought. Would also be interesting to see how the dynamic with Bette changed, if by some Rebirth-magic she regains her identity as the original Batgirl to "Luka's" Batwoman.

----------


## Caivu

A gorgeous watercolor from Jeff "Dekal" Becker:

----------


## The Whovian

> A gorgeous watercolor from Jeff "Dekal" Becker:
> 
> 
> Edit- not sure why it posted twice.


Oh wow, that is really cool. I wish I was talented like that.

----------


## adrikito

> A gorgeous watercolor from Jeff "Dekal" Becker:
> 
> 
> Edit- not sure why it posted twice.


hahahah.. GOOD.

----------


## Katana500

> Yeah, that was me. 
> 
> One of the things the current series will supposedly do is explore what happens when Kate has her current role stripped from her in some way, just like what happened with her military career. The original Batwoman returning due to Rebirthy shenanigans or something and taking over would be an unlikely but valid way to do that.


I hope they dont make her and Batman fall out leading to her having her role stripped from her. I quite like how close their relationship is now  :Smile:

----------


## Caivu

> I hope they dont make her and Batman fall out leading to her having her role stripped from her. I quite like how close their relationship is now


Well... something like that might happen. During the Batwoman Q&A a month or so back, Tynion mentioned that their relationship would be "coming to a head" in 'Tec over the next year, and said in another interview that 'Tec is building toward issue #975, which is scheduled for next April.

----------


## Katana500

We did see that teaser of Batwoman leading the Colony right? so maybe it is something to do with that

----------


## Caivu

> We did see that teaser of Batwoman leading the Colony right? so maybe it is something to do with that


Right now I think it's a case of Colony!Kate being either from the future or a different universe entirely, sent to the current present to stop something from happening. That Kate looks about 15 years older than Kate does now, so for her to show up "soon" means that this would almost certainly have to be the case. If so, regular Kate might take the stance of "this is something I have to do myself" and go it alone. Broadly speaking, I think that's what'll happen.

----------


## Katana500

Whatever it is! its gonna be great  :Smile:

----------


## millernumber1

> Well... something like that might happen. During the Batwoman Q&A a month or so back, Tynion mentioned that their relationship would be "coming to a head" in 'Tec over the next year, and said in another interview that 'Tec is building toward issue #975, which is scheduled for next April.


Oh, interesting. I think that would be pretty interesting, having a 25-issue arc from now till then.

----------


## Caivu

> Oh, interesting. I think that would be pretty interesting, having a 25-issue arc from now till then.


I think the rift, if there is one, will start in the last two issues of League of Shadows, since the Colony is probably going to play a major role in defeating them. Kate's already almost forgiven Jacob for the first arc while Bruce hasn't, so there's already a tension there.

----------


## Man-Thing

Am I weird in hoping that time travel isn't involved in this storyline?

----------


## Caivu

> Am I weird in hoping that time travel isn't involved in this storyline?


No, but there's also not really a lot of other options for an older Kate appearing "soon".

----------


## millernumber1

> No, but there's also not really a lot of other options for an older Kate appearing "soon".


Could be like that (kinda terrible) Robin storyline where Batman pretends to be himself from the future (or has Alfred do it) to "test" Tim.  :Smile:

----------


## Man-Thing

I take it I'm alone in thinking that she doesn't actually look that much older in that shot?

----------


## Caivu

> I take it I'm alone in thinking that she doesn't actually look that much older in that shot?


Maybe? I mean, she has crow's feet and her hair's lost a bit of color. Her face looks more worn.

Compare the faces and hair color:

Screenshot_20170425-221625.jpg

Screenshot_20170425-221833.jpg

Screenshot_20170425-222008.jpg

----------


## RebirthgotmebackintoDC

Just caught up with this Book! Really enjoying it.  I dropped the Nu52 one after the Rucka Williams combo left, that art was gorgeous, so do I need to know anything about the previous series.  I get the impression that the characters introduced in issue two are new, but I just want to be sure

----------


## Caivu

> Just caught up with this Book! Really enjoying it.  I dropped the Nu52 one after the Rucka Williams combo left, that art was gorgeous, so do I need to know anything about the previous series.  I get the impression that the characters introduced in issue two are new, but I just want to be sure


Yes, Coryana and everyone on it so far are completely new.

So far I don't think there's anything you need to know from vols. 5 and 6 of the first series. Alice is eventually returning in the current series, and they might reference the time she in vol. 6 when she briefly turned good, since it seems like she'll have relapsed since then and possibly become more formidable.

Edit: I guess there's also the reason why Bette is apparently no longer superheroing, which came from vol. 5. She got sidelined for over a month after getting her ribs broken and I guess decided to do something more legitimate, which is why she took after Kate and enrolled at West Point.

----------


## Caivu

> Maybe a hospital, or maybe whatever injury she has is technologically-based since the villain for this story is a robot, and can be fixed there. *Like she inhaled nanobots or something.*


Well, I mentioned this a few pages back as an explanation for why Luke is taking Kate to FoxTech... and now the Colony (or rather, the General) has developed a nanobot-based weapon in 'Tec #955. So that's interesting. It's looking like it's going to backfire and mess her up bad.

----------


## ProgmanX

> Well, I mentioned this a few pages back as an explanation for why Luke is taking Kate to FoxTech... and now the Colony (or rather, the General) has developed a nanobot-based weapon in 'Tec #955. So that's interesting. It's looking like it's going to backfire and mess her up bad.


Why do you think she's injured again? That panel could easily be her just...being carried for the sight gag. Even if riding on his back would be funnier, like that time Maggie did with Superman when Skyhook kidnapped her daughter. Besides, this would happen a decent amount of time _after_ this current arc, so if Kate inhaled nanobots that _set themselves on fire and never stop self-replicating_ she'd be long dead by then. Probably not even a corpse, depending on how hot the nanites burn.

----------


## Caivu

> Why do you think she's injured again? That panel could easily be her just...being carried for the sight gag. Even if riding on his back would be funnier, like that time Maggie did with Superman when Skyhook kidnapped her daughter. Besides, this would happen a decent amount of time _after_ this current arc, so if Kate inhaled nanobots that _set themselves on fire and never stop self-replicating_ she'd be long dead by then. Probably not even a corpse, depending on how hot the nanites burn.


The combination of her expression and the way her right hand is posed are screaming at me that something's wrong with her. They both look relatively lifeless to me. It also raises the question of why, if she's not unwell, she's not holding on with both arms?
As for the nanites (if those are what indeed end up injuring her), the way I'm picturing it is that they get onto her system somehow, like being inhaled, but they don't get activated.

----------


## btmarine23

Is it known if Kate will be a mainstay in Detective?  Or is it possible(likely) she'll be rotated out?

----------


## Caivu

> Is it known if Kate will be a mainstay in Detective?  Or is it possible(likely) she'll be rotated out?


Tynion has repeatedly said she's staying.

----------


## Caivu

By Yusuf Idris:

IMG_20170428_194045.jpg

----------


## Bat-Meal

The only good thing I can say about the hostage situation in that recent 'Tec issue is that maybe Kate wasn't too freaked-out about the situation - because it probably wasn't the first time she's been tied-up naked by an aggressive woman.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Caivu

> The only good thing I can say about the hostage situation in that recent 'Tec issue is that maybe Kate wasn't too freaked-out about the situation - because it probably wasn't the first time she's been tied-up naked by an aggressive woman.


I still don't know how I feel about that scene in light of the whole "being involuntarily stripped" thing, since Kate was raped within the past year in-universe. 

On the one hand, there was nothing sexual about the situation other than the nudity, Kate's always had a pretty hefty amount of mental fortitude, she had two allies nearby in the exact same situation, and she was almost certainly running on adrenline at that point (as were Luke and JPV) to just suck up an impalement like that. And she does have a history of shrugging off stab wounds.

But on the other hand... even ignoring the stuff with Nocturna, I recall the scene in Elegy where Kate makes clear that both her kidnappings greatly distressed her (surprise surprise), in large part because she was tied up and helpless both times.

So I dunno. There's enough leeway here that I guess I can be okay with it, and I wasn't expecting her to have a breakdown or anything, but still.

----------


## Bat-Meal

> I still don't know how I feel about that scene in light of the whole "being involuntarily stripped" thing, since Kate was raped within the past year in-universe. 
> 
> On the one hand, there was nothing sexual about the situation other than the nudity, Kate's always had a pretty hefty amount of mental fortitude, she had two allies nearby in the exact same situation, and she was almost certainly running on adrenline at that point (as were Luke and JPV) to just suck up an impalement like that. And she does have a history of shrugging off stab wounds.


Oh, it was definitely offensive, and I don't think the writer necessarily thought that one through properly, and the implications.  Which is why I was trying to make lite of it.

In any case, I expect that finding Batwing and JPV were there calmed her down some.  Initially when she wakes she starts fretting, when she calls for help, then when the others reveal themselves she calms and starts trying to take leadership.  No doubt she puts on extra bravado for her teammates, and only freaks-out in private when possible.  She only shows her weaknesses to her father and those she's in a close relationship with, like when she cried in Maggie's arms.

----------


## Caivu

> In any case, I expect that finding Batwing and JPV were there calmed her down some.  Initially when she wakes she starts fretting, when she calls for help, then when the others reveal themselves she calms and starts trying to take leadership.  No doubt she puts on extra bravado for her teammates, and only freaks-out in private when possible.  She only shows her weaknesses to her father and those she's in a close relationship with, like when she cried in Maggie's arms.


I agree that having allies there helped. However, and I can't explain why, but I don't think she was fronting afterward. At least, not actively.

It's not the best example (for a few reasons), but after her first stabbing she was still relatively collected. She broke out of the Weeping Woman's mind-effery twice with relatively minor damage, even after almost drowning once. So it's complicated what's going on with her mentally in this issue.

----------


## Caivu

_52_ #52 was released 10 years ago today. Here's the final scene:

52_1.jpg

52_2.jpg

52_3.jpg

----------


## Assam

> _52_ #52 was released 10 years ago today. Here's the final scene:
> 
> 52_1.jpg
> 
> 52_2.jpg
> 
> 52_3.jpg


I really wish we could have gotten a Question ongoing after 52 instead of just back-ups in 'Tec.

----------


## millernumber1

> _52_ #52 was released 10 years ago today. Here's the final scene:
> 
> 52_1.jpg
> 
> 52_2.jpg
> 
> 52_3.jpg


ARE YOU READY? Sniff sniff.  :Smile:

----------


## Caivu

A C2E2 commission by Ken Lashley:

IMG_20170503_193827.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

> A C2E2 commission by Ken Lashley:
> 
> IMG_20170503_193827.jpg


That is cool!

----------


## Caivu

A FCBD sketch from today, by Eugene Commodore:

Screenshot_20170506-130650.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

> A FCBD sketch from today, by Eugene Commodore:
> 
> Screenshot_20170506-130650.jpg


Oh man, that is so cool. You guys are so fortunate to live close to shops who do this sort of thing. No one comes to the midwest. Amazing sketch! Congrats Caivu!

----------


## Caivu

> Oh man, that is so cool. You guys are so fortunate to live close to shops who do this sort of thing. No one comes to the midwest. Amazing sketch! Congrats Caivu!


Heh. You're the second person today who thought this was mine. It's not, sadly. I wish it were, but I have to settle for collecting .jpegs from elsewhere (and posting them here).

----------


## The Whovian

> Heh. You're the second person today who thought this was mine. It's not, sadly. I wish it were, but I have to settle for collecting .jpegs from elsewhere (and posting them here).


LOL. Well, whoever got it has a really cool piece.  :Smile:

----------


## Caivu

Another sketch cover from today, this one by Chris Visions:

Screenshot_20170506-212613.jpg

They've all looked so good!

I also came across this custom Funko Pop by someone going by @juztadude:

Screenshot_20170506-212808.jpg

I'm actually making my own custom Batwoman Pop, so this is very helpful in terms of inspiration.

----------


## Caivu

Batwoman had a 46-point drop in sales rankings from March to April.

Screenshot_20170507-131006.jpg

Still need the actual numbers, but that's not a good sign.  :Frown:

----------


## Aahz

> Still need the actual numbers, but that's not a good sign.


Based on the numbers fron the previous month they should be somewhere arroung 35K, issue #3 will probaly end up somewhere in the 20s.

----------


## Caivu

> Based on the numbers fron the previous month they should be somewhere arroung 35K, issue #3 will probaly end up somewhere in the 20s.


That doesn't somehow make it a good sign.

I'm holding out that maybe things were a bit skewed for April due to both The Button and Secret Empire probably having higher than average sales. Even then, this is still a massive drop and far less stable than her previous series.

----------


## Frontier

Why would there be such a steep drop though? Title attrition or something?

----------


## Aahz

> Why would there be such a steep drop though? Title attrition or something?


Drops like this are pretty normal during the first issues.

----------


## Caivu

> Why would there be such a steep drop though? Title attrition or something?


Collectors buying #1s but not the rest of the series. Also less variants for #2. The drop between a #2 and a #3 is more telling. Super Sons, for example, dropped from #4 to #42 or thereabouts between #1 and #2, but with April's #3 it ranked 45th.

Rankings-wise this is still a big drop though, especially compared to the previous series. I'm hoping Batwoman #2 managed at least close to 40k, because it's rapidly running out of wiggle room here. But I've also read April was a low month.

Also, more people might be buying it digitally than in print, because it's made the Comixology Top 20 each month so far.

----------


## millernumber1

Issh. I really, really think that the bump to $4 an issue for the once a month is a really, really bad idea. It's going to kill off the tangential market.

----------


## Caivu

> Issh. I really, really think that the bump to $4 an issue for the once a month is a really, really bad idea. It's going to kill off the tangential market.


I don't think that had as big of an effect. Look at Super Sons. A massive (close to 50%) dropoff from issue #1 to issue #2, _before_ the price increase. Stabilized at issue #3 at 45th, down from 42nd. That's why the drop from #2 to #3 is a better indicator of where a book will be long-term.

The one _good_ thing I can say about this, assuming it did about 35k for April, is that with the standard (at least, that I've heard) month-to-month attrition rate of 2%, it'll still make it into the 30s before it drops under 20k. It's just discouraging that it has to pretty much do perfectly if that's the case.

----------


## millernumber1

> I don't think that had as big of an effect. Look at Super Sons. A massive (close to 50%) dropoff from issue #1 to issue #2, _before_ the price increase. Stabilized at issue #3 at 45th, down from 42nd. That's why the drop from #2 to #3 is a better indicator of where a book will be long-term.
> 
> The one _good_ thing I can say about this, assuming it did about 35k for April, is that with the standard (at least, that I've heard) month-to-month attrition rate of 2%, it'll still make it into the 30s before it drops under 20k. It's just discouraging that it has to pretty much do perfectly if that's the case.


I did not know that about Super Sons. That's a good point. I hope that it's good and lasts for a good long time, to wipe out Andreyko's run from our memory (and get Bette and Julia and Beth/Alice entrenched as solid characters for all writers to use.  :Smile:

----------


## Aahz

And there have been wore drops, look at Iron Fist it was last month on number 5 now it is on number 77.

Btw. it doesn't seem like the price increase had a big effect on the sales sofar.

----------


## millernumber1

> And there have been wore drops, look at Iron Fist it was last month on number 5 now it is on number 77.
> 
> Btw. it doesn't seem like the price increase had a big effect on the sales sofar.


I hope you are right. I want Batwoman and Super Sons and Birds of Prey to hold on!

----------


## Aahz

> I hope you are right. I want Batwoman and Super Sons and Birds of Prey to hold on!


At least when you compare this top 100 with the previous one mostof the series (appart from the just lauched like Batwoman) that were effected by the price increase are still on a similar place in the ranking.

----------


## millernumber1

> At least when you compare this top 100 with the previous one mostof the series (appart from the just lauched like Batwoman) that were effected by the price increase are still on a similar place in the ranking.


I will hope they all hold steady, then!

----------


## Caivu

Numbers! 

Screenshot_20170508-112159.jpg

That's about a 39% decrease from March, which is higher than what I understand to be the typical attrition rate of 35% from an issue 1 to an issue 2. However, since #2 was still returnable, the actual number is close to 37k, making for a less-than-average drop. Close, but good.

Also good is that it's still within the top 50 in terms of dollars. Again, still close, but it's there.

----------


## Aahz

> However, since #2 was still returnable, the actual number is close to 37k, making for a less-than-average drop.


If you factor in that the numbers for the  issue #1 are also adjusted for beeing returnable, the drop stays roughly the same.

----------


## Caivu

Looks like Kate will play a significant role in Nightwing: The New Order:

IMG_-3s2kfb.jpg

Unlikely as it is, it'd be awesome if this universe is where Colony!Kate is from. It does take place 10-20 years in the future.

----------


## millernumber1

> Looks like Kate will play a significant role in Nightwing: The New Order:
> 
> IMG_-3s2kfb.jpg
> 
> Unlikely as it is, it'd be awesome if this universe is where Colony!Kate is from. It does take place 10-20 years in the future.


But would this be the same Batwoman? MAYBE IT'S BETTE!  :Wink:

----------


## The Whovian

> Looks like Kate will play a significant role in Nightwing: The New Order:


Sweet!!!!!!!!

----------


## Oberon

Your comment reminds me of an older Teen/titans story that has Bette "involved" with Tim and also taking on the mantel of Batwoman. I believe this comes from earlier than the Kate/NewBatWoman debut in 52 series.  I've only seen some pages/panels from that story, never the whole story.

----------


## darkseidpwns

> Looks like Kate will play a significant role in Nightwing: The New Order:
> 
> Attachment 49167
> 
> Unlikely as it is, it'd be awesome if this universe is where Colony!Kate is from. It does take place 10-20 years in the future.


There was no mention of it on Screen Rant (the source that revealed this book) or Higgins Twitter. Is there a source for this other than Bleeding Cool? those guys often put their own speculation in to news.

----------


## Caivu

> There was no mention of it on Screen Rant (the source that revealed this book) or Higgins Twitter. Is there a source for this other than Bleeding Cool? those guys often put their own speculation in to news.


Not yet, there isn't.

----------


## Caivu

This was a great visual pun from today:

Screenshot_20170510-212357.jpg

----------


## James Hunter

> Your comment reminds me of an older Teen/titans story that has Bette "involved" with Tim and also taking on the mantel of Batwoman. I believe this comes from earlier than the Kate/NewBatWoman debut in 52 series.  I've only seen some pages/panels from that story, never the whole story.


Your thinking of "Titans Tomorrow" I think (or it might have been its sequel, "Titans of Tomorrow...Today!") by Geoff Johns..  I have to say that was one of my favourite arcs by Johns (and one of the best TEEN TITANS stories in the last 20 years IMHO)

Cheers.

James.

----------


## Caivu

Kate's mention of all her scars in 'Tec #956 got me to wondering how many she actually has, so I decided to chart them out. Unless I'm missing some, it's this many:

Kate_Scars.jpg

----------


## Bat-Meal

Meh, whenever in her underwear she's usually depicted scar-less, they won't last.  Once or twice tattoos have gone missing as well. :P
...And she has magic fast-growing hair!

----------


## Caivu

Commission by Stephanie Hans:

Screenshot_20170512-224324.jpg

----------


## Red obin

> Meh, whenever in her underwear she's usually depicted scar-less, they won't last.  Once or twice tattoos have gone missing as well. :P
> ...And she has magic fast-growing hair!


Kate is a metahuman confirmed! Super healing and hair growth. :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Caivu

Found the best Batwoman minifig I've ever seen, by someone going by starknguyenphuoc on Instagram:

Screenshot_20170514-103933.jpg

----------


## Caivu

A Timm-esque WIP by Akif Noor:

Screenshot_20170515-135906.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

Nice!

10 chars

----------


## Caivu

Gorgeous progress art by Stephanie Hans from issue #5:

Screenshot_20170517-090338.jpg

----------


## Caivu

More art!

By Ludovic Leondi:

Screenshot_20170517-161624.jpg

By Chris Samnee:

Jtu3jLQN_1605171244371gpadd.jpg

----------


## Caivu

And more!

By Garrie Gastonny:

Screenshot_20170518-112556.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Adam Tupper:

Screenshot_20170519-023918.jpg

----------


## Caivu

The mods over on r/DCComics voted on the best comics of the New 52, and the Williams/Blackman run tied for 11th place!

Screenshot_20170520-005959.jpg

----------


## darkseidpwns

link to the full list please.

----------


## millernumber1

> The mods over on r/DCComics voted on the best comics of the New 52, and the Williams/Blackman run tied for 11th place!
> 
> Screenshot_20170520-005959.jpg


That is a weird list, to be sure. Two of them I would agree are quality (Batwoman and Catwoman), one has a very popular novellist writing it, the other is...ugh.

----------


## Caivu

> link to the full list please.


http://imgur.com/a/JZ0iQ

----------


## darkseidpwns

> http://imgur.com/a/JZ0iQ


That's...actually a rather good list, usually these tend to be silly (CBR) but with the exception of Simone Batgirl and Supergirl I can accept it and those they put under personal recommendation.

----------


## Caivu

More sketch covers.

By Allen Spears:

Screenshot_20170521-020810.jpg

By Sean Forney:

IMG_20170521_090339.jpg

By Shane McCormack:

Screenshot_20170520-184451.jpg

----------


## Assam

"BATWOMAN #6

Written by Marguerite Bennett, James Tynion IV, art and cover Eddy Barrows, variant cover by Michael Cho.

"Open Fire," part one! Return to the brief flash of the future seen in Batwoman: Rebirth and meet Commander Kane -- a battle-hardened version of Batwoman! Hurting from battles unknown, she's taken control of the deadly Colony and declared war on Gotham City! What could possibly cause Kate Kane to bring the battlefront to her home? Find out here! 

32 pages, $3.99, in stores on August 16."

Okay seriously,  is it a rule that everyone in the Batfamily has to become a villain at some point?

----------


## Katana500

> "BATWOMAN #6
> 
> Written by Marguerite Bennett, James Tynion IV, art and cover Eddy Barrows, variant cover by Michael Cho.
> 
> "Open Fire," part one! Return to the brief flash of the future seen in Batwoman: Rebirth and meet Commander Kane -- a battle-hardened version of Batwoman! Hurting from battles unknown, she's taken control of the deadly Colony and declared war on Gotham City! What could possibly cause Kate Kane to bring the battlefront to her home? Find out here! 
> 
> 32 pages, $3.99, in stores on August 16."
> 
> Okay seriously,  is it a rule that everyone in the Batfamily has to become a villain at some point?


So is this the actual future or just a future? Interesting either way

----------


## Caivu

> "BATWOMAN #6
> 
> Written by Marguerite Bennett, James Tynion IV, art and cover Eddy Barrows, variant cover by Michael Cho.
> 
> "Open Fire," part one! Return to the brief flash of the future seen in Batwoman: Rebirth and meet Commander Kane -- a battle-hardened version of Batwoman! Hurting from battles unknown, she's taken control of the deadly Colony and declared war on Gotham City! What could possibly cause Kate Kane to bring the battlefront to her home? Find out here! 
> 
> 32 pages, $3.99, in stores on August 16."
> 
> Okay seriously,  is it a rule that everyone in the Batfamily has to become a villain at some point?


First of all: where did you get this? Did the solicits release early? I didn't see them on Newsarama yet.

And second, This was shown in the Rebirth issue. It's not a surprise. The question is how she gets there. Interviews have mentioned that this series is going to explore what happens when Kate gets her Batwoman status ripped away from her; before, when she left the Army, she eventually found a new purpose. But she doesn't have a Plan C, and her moral code, while pretty black-and-white, has always edged into a darker territory than Batman's has. And plus, we don't know that she's an actual villain. I mean, the Colony themselves aren't.




> So is this the actual future or just a future? Interesting either way


I'm hoping we find out! I don't want this to answer all the questions and hope it's just a preview for a future story, but I'm glad the teaser from the Rebirth issue isn't being put on complete hold for twelve issues or whatever. Though this does put off what I had hoped this issue would be (a flashback to how Kate and Julia first met) a while longer.

----------


## Assam

> First of all: where did you get this? Did the solicits release early? I didn't see them on Newsarama yet.
> 
> And second, This was shown in the Rebirth issue. It's not a surprise. The question is how she gets there. Interviews have mentioned that this series is going to explore what happens when Kate gets her Batwoman status ripped away from her; before, when she left the Army, she eventually found a new purpose. But she doesn't have a Plan C, and her moral code, while pretty black-and-white, has always edged into a darker territory than Batman's has. And plus, we don't know that she's an actual villain. I mean, the Colony themselves aren't.


Found them here: http://www.newsarama.com/34577-dc-co...citations.html 

As for the other thing, I don't read _Batwoman_ so I didn't know about this. Neat sounding ideas from the interview though, although it does make me wonder what made her stop being Batwoman. (Which is good; our attention should be hooked) 

Oh, and as for the Colony? I'm not sure if this makes sense, but while I wouldn't call them evil, except for _certain_ members, I do still classify them as villains, and not just antagonists. Their actions in my book have crossed that line.

----------


## Caivu

> Found them here: http://www.newsarama.com/34577-dc-co...citations.html


But where'd you get the address before they were actually released?

----------


## Caivu

Also, I just noticed that "Open Fire" isn't a single issue. I'm guessing a two-parter, since the Volume 1 trade contains 168 pages, so that would be 8 issues of 21 pages (the Rebirth issues, the first arc, and this story). Meaning the second arc (with Scarecrow) starts on issue #8, most likely.

----------


## Caivu

Let's not forget the cover:

IMG_jb83wh.jpg

----------


## Caivu

A panel from issue #4:

Screenshot_20170522-171015.jpg

Dammit Kate stop throwing things at her and reaching into your belt for stuff and just punch her in the face

----------


## Caivu

> Also, I just noticed that "Open Fire" isn't a single issue. I'm guessing a two-parter, since the Volume 1 trade contains 168 pages, so that would be 8 issues of 21 pages (the Rebirth issues, the first arc, and this story). Meaning the second arc (with Scarecrow) starts on issue #8, most likely.


Confirmed! I think...

Screenshot_20170522-180652.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

> Let's not forget the cover:
> 
> Attachment 49741


Wow, I love that cover!

----------


## Man-Thing

Well, it's the future. You win! Still hope there's no time travel involved and that this is more like the Batman 666 flash-forwards where we slowly learn about what's happening in the present through the lens of a future where it's all already happened.

----------


## Caivu

> Well, it's the future. You win! Still hope there's no time travel involved and that this is more like the Batman 666 flash-forwards where we slowly learn about what's happening in the present through the lens of a future where it's all already happened.


I wouldn't mind time travel, but i have a feeling it's going to work like you describe. Hopefully, anyway. That is, bits of the Colony!Kate story will be doled out in 1-or-2-issue stories between the main arcs until the present storyline catches up, possibly with Present!Kate having to face off with Colony!Kate and take her down.

----------


## Caivu

Jock got some comp copies of the new collected edition to be released next month:

IMG_20170522_121309.jpg

----------


## millernumber1

> Jock got some comp copies of the new collected edition to be released next month:
> 
> IMG_20170522_121309.jpg


Finally, we get Cutter!  :Smile:

----------


## Caivu

Batwoman #4 variant cover by Michael Cho:

IMG_-gcv30q.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

> Batwoman #4 variant cover by Michael Cho:
> 
> IMG_-gcv30q.jpg


I just can't get over how awesome these covers are

----------


## Caivu

> I just can't get over how awesome these covers are


Right? I'd be double-buying print issues anyway, but it doesn't hurt when all the covers are actually fantastic.

----------


## Caivu

[double-post]

----------


## Man-Thing

> Finally, we get Cutter!


I've had Cutter in a clear plastic binder on my shelf next to the original Elegy hardcover, but it'll be much nicer to have an actual collected edition of the entirety of the og Tec run. Good times.  :Smile:

----------


## millernumber1

> I've had Cutter in a clear plastic binder on my shelf next to the original Elegy hardcover, but it'll be much nicer to have an actual collected edition of the entirety of the og Tec run. Good times.


Nice work!  :Smile:

----------


## Caivu

Here's a great follow-up to ProgmanX's rundown of issue #3:

Three Issues Of Batwoman, And I’m Already An Idiot

----------


## Caivu

Heh, Steph seems to have picked up some stuff from her teacher:

48395888-b103-43dc-bf49-8efd9d6563ab.jpg
835e79e9-7480-4230-b29d-2d62f308f6ab.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

> Heh, Steph seems to have picked up some stuff from her teacher:
> 
> 48395888-b103-43dc-bf49-8efd9d6563ab.jpg
> 835e79e9-7480-4230-b29d-2d62f308f6ab.jpg


Yep. Some of Batman's technique will rub off on you if you're around him long enough.

----------


## Caivu

New panel from issue #4:

Screenshot_20170525-145456.jpg

----------


## Assam

So how's the new Batwoman title been? With the dropping of another book, I'm interested in maybe picking it up. Is it similar to the Nu52 title? Anywhere near as good as Elegy?

----------


## Caivu

> So how's the new Batwoman title been? With the dropping of another book, I'm interested in maybe picking it up. Is it similar to the Nu52 title? Anywhere near as good as Elegy?


A solid 8-8.5/10 average so far. I'd put it about on par with her first series (in fact, so far this series works as a nice companion/complementary piece to it).  The biggest problem it has so far is pacing; specifically, it feels just a little too fast. Like it's trying to fit 6 issues into 4 or 5. I don't have much of a problem there since it's not a slog, but it's worth mentioning.

There are a _lot_ of great things being done in terms of setting up Knife as Kate's archenemy. Holy crap. So many comparisons and contrasts, and done in so many different ways: through character design, their personalities and actions, through panel layout and color schemes... it's great.

I find the story intriguing even though there aren't really any answers yet, but there are still two issues left. It's not a grandiose story, but it's still big, if that makes sense. Much like both Elegy and her first series, the focus is on Kate, for the most part. And speaking of that, Kate is herself. She acts like Kate acts, talks how Kate talks, and so on.

----------


## Caivu

Artist Ren Wong does an interesting and cool thing: leaves his art taped up in public places and posts the approximate location on Twitter. Whoever finds it first keeps it.

Today, it was Batwoman:

Screenshot_20170526-214909.jpg

IMG_20170526_214630.jpg

It's still there, as far as I know...

Screenshot_20170526-215201.jpg

----------


## Frontier

His art style reminds me of Todd Nauck...

----------


## Caivu

Some clarifications about the series:

Screenshot_20170527-224602.jpg

Screenshot_20170527-224504.jpg

----------


## millernumber1

Ah, that clarifies a lot.  :Smile:

----------


## Caivu

A short-haired Batwoman by Joshua Hixson:

Screenshot_20170528-164110.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Dima Ivanov:

18333c51-3e14-459c-8875-0fa839ab34a2.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Tumblr user @maridoodles created some drawings about the key info on all the main bat-ladies. Here's Kate's:

c23cd81c-4d25-45ef-aeb0-23f6aedc4e48.jpg

----------


## Caivu

I literally just found this out: 11 years ago today, Kate Kane was first announced to the public.

----------


## Man-Thing

Hot damn! A good eleven years.  :Smile:

----------


## Caivu

Yep, and three weeks from today marks the same anniversary of her actual debut (and the release of issue #4, which seems intentional).

----------


## Caivu

By Jann Galino:

Screenshot_20170601-005800.jpg

Sketch cover by Robert Summers:

Screenshot_20170601-005857.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Tony Cruz:

BWTonyCruz.JPG

----------


## Caivu

By Andrea Ferloni:

2219468d-5541-47cc-8a0b-9d9698cff20f.jpg

----------


## Assam

So Tynion on Twitter said that readers of Detective Comics will want to check out Batwoman #6 in particular. Now he's probably just saying that because its going to be about the Colony, but now I'm kind of hoping Kate's not the only 'Tec team member whose potential future we'll be seeing here.

----------


## Caivu

> So Tynion on Twitter said that readers of Detective Comics will want to check out Batwoman #6 in particular. Now he's probably just saying that because its going to be about the Colony, *but now I'm kind of hoping Kate's not the only 'Tec team member whose potential future we'll be seeing here.*


Possible, I guess. I've been wondering if Colony!Kate's reason for attacking Gotham (and this is assuming that she's time-traveled) is to destroy the Belfry and the rest of the team for whatever reason.

----------


## The Whovian

> So Tynion on Twitter said that readers of Detective Comics will want to check out Batwoman #6 in particular. Now he's probably just saying that because its going to be about the Colony, but now I'm kind of hoping Kate's not the only 'Tec team member whose potential future we'll be seeing here.


That would be awesome to see what the other members would look like in the future.

----------


## Caivu

What would be pretty neat is if Colony!Kate is actually from the Batman Beyond timeline, just earlier than that series is set. One of the complaints I've heard about that series is that pretty much none of the female Gotham chatacters appear in that or are even referred to, so this might be a way to meet halfway on that, to see them 15 to 20 years in the future as opposed to... what, 30, 40? I dunno.

That's a very big "maybe", though.

----------


## Caivu

Another piece by Ren Wong:

BWBG_RenWong.JPG

----------


## Katana500

Could colony Kate be connected to the dark multiverse stuff. Maybe shes from one of the dark timelines their?

----------


## Caivu

> Could colony Kate be connected to the dark multiverse stuff. Maybe shes from one of the dark timelines their?


I've wondered that, too. It'd be interesting if she's from the same universe that Nightwing: The New Order takes place in. Some of the GCPD designs from that look pretty Colony-esque already.

----------


## Caivu

I'm not 100% sure, but I think these panels by Stephanie Hans are from issue #5:

Screenshot_20170603-221109.jpg

They were posted to her IG right after a panel that definitely _is_ from that issue, so...

----------


## millernumber1

> That would be awesome to see what the other members would look like in the future.


I would LOVE Future!Steph. Maybe that's how Steph interacting with Kate in the Batwoman Rebirth issue will work out?

----------


## Caivu

> I would LOVE Future!Steph. Maybe that's how Steph interacting with Kate in the Batwoman Rebirth issue will work out?


How do you mean? Steph in that issue looks like she does in the present.

----------


## Caivu

By Lisa De Leon:

Screenshot_20170603-000007.jpg

----------


## millernumber1

> How do you mean? Steph in that issue looks like she does in the present.


TIME TRAVEL! I dunno. Just something that popped into my head, trying to figure out how Steph fits into Kate's story.

----------


## Caivu

> TIME TRAVEL! I dunno. Just something that popped into my head, trying to figure out how Steph fits into Kate's story.


Whatever it is, it seems clear that they grow closer somehow. Even before she left, Steph didn't seem like she would shed a tear about Kate at all, so that panel was telling.

----------


## millernumber1

> Whatever it is, it seems clear that they grow closer somehow. Even before she left, Steph didn't seem like she would shed a tear about Kate at all, so that panel was telling.


I don't think Steph disliked Kate, I think she was more admiring but distant, based on their interactions in Tec, and before that, the Tec Endgame one-shot.

----------


## Caivu

> I don't think Steph disliked Kate, I think she was more admiring but distant, based on their interactions in Tec, and before that, the Tec Endgame one-shot.


Maybe, but the point is they're not particularly close yet, whatever the case. Like, if that scene from the Rebirth issue were to happen the very next issue after Steph returns, I can't see her crying about it then, even taking into account her not wanting someone else to leave. But maybe 10 to 15 issues after that (or more), if they do some bonding? Sure.

----------


## millernumber1

> Maybe, but the point is they're not particularly close yet, whatever the case. Like, if that scene from the Rebirth issue were to happen the very next issue after Steph returns, I can't see her crying about it then, even taking into account her not wanting someone else to leave. But maybe 10 to 15 issues after that (or more), if they do some bonding? Sure.


Makes sense. But that's why I think the future Steph thing might make sense, even if she didn't look that much older.

----------


## Caivu

By Ryan Winn:

IMG_20170603_183515.jpg

----------


## Caivu

There's something interesting I'm noticing about both Batman and Batwoman's titles, and it's become more apparent with the preview for Batman #24. It's still a bit early to say for sure, but both books seem to be dealing with the idea of each of them not being a superhero anymore; in Batman, there are lots of indications that Bruce seems to be mulling over the idea of retirement, while multiple interviews with both Batwoman writers mention that Kate's status as Batwoman is going to be taken from her in some sense. We'll have to see how it plays out in both cases, but I still thought that was a noteworthy parallel.

----------


## Caivu

By Kat McI:

Screenshot_20170605-203105.jpg

----------


## Caivu

This is certainly intriguing...

Screenshot_20170605-213159.jpg

----------


## Man-Thing

Oh! I hadn't even thought about that much. I wonder what the state of their relationship will be _in the future_ ~mysterious arm wave~

----------


## Caivu

> Oh! I hadn't even thought about that much. I wonder what the state of their relationship will be _in the future_ ~mysterious arm wave~


I think we all know the obvious answer is "they're married", which would be fantastic even if this is only a potential future. The only other real option is that Renee's dead, but I really doubt either Tynion or Bennett would fridge her like that as one of the steps to break Kate for this future, as it seems will happen. They both like her too much, for starters.

----------


## Caivu

A Bombshells Batwoman, by someone going by LuckyStar:

IMG_20170606_122254.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

I like it. Cool design.

----------


## Caivu

By Angel de Berg:

Screenshot_20170606-141930.jpg

By Cameron Stewart:

IMG_20170606_163031.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Thought this was interesting. Liam Sharp approves of both Wonderbats:

Screenshot_20170605-210721.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Another peek from Stephanie Hans of issue #5:

18891683_1430674173665282_4139428997113446079_o.jpg

----------


## Caivu

So... leaving behind the obvious meta stuff surrounding the end of Batman #24, how do we think Kate will react to this? Assuming Selina says yes, of course.

It's tricky, because Kate and Selina have never been shown interacting so their status quo is up in the air, but I don't think she'd be okay with this given how black-and-white her perspective tends to be. It could cause some friction with Clayface, too ("You can't marry her, Bruce, she's a criminal!" "Uh, so was I." etc.)

----------


## Caivu

A battle-damaged Batwoman by J. McGrim:

Screenshot_20170607-145431.jpg

And a print by Jeff Janelle in honor of Pride Month:

IMG_20170607_182746.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Today marks the one-year anniversary of Detective Comics #934.

detective-comics-938.jpg

----------


## millernumber1

> Today marks the one-year anniversary of Detective Comics #934.
> 
> Attachment 50375


Woohoo! Here's to my favorite run of Rebirth so far!  :Smile:

----------


## The Whovian

> Today marks the one-year anniversary of Detective Comics #934.
> 
> Attachment 50375


Can't believe it's already been one year. Time just flies

----------


## Caivu

Batwoman amd The Question by Penelope R. Gaylord:

Screenshot_20170608-142336.jpg

Batwoman by Dan Asfour:

Screenshot_20170608-194830.jpg

----------


## Caivu

A uniform redesign by Yasmin Liang:

e88febab-9587-44b9-8768-70e09aff8c76.jpg

----------


## Frontier

Seems very Burnside-esque...

----------


## ProgmanX

> So... leaving behind the obvious meta stuff surrounding the end of Batman #24, how do we think Kate will react to this? Assuming Selina says yes, of course.
> 
> It's tricky, because Kate and Selina have never been shown interacting so their status quo is up in the air, but I don't think she'd be okay with this given how black-and-white her perspective tends to be. It could cause some friction with Clayface, too ("You can't marry her, Bruce, she's a criminal!" "Uh, so was I." etc.)


Wow, I have to just completely disagree with you on this one. Kate _can_ veer into "black and white" mode, but if memory serves that only happens when things have gotten extremely personal and her judgement is clouded. Read: her dad. Everything else has been, for the most part, pretty grey...in a sense. It's more like...her sense of purpose is black and white (if she has one, she's good. If not, everything is on fire) but her actions within that framework are nowhere near as absolute as Bruce. _Night of the Monster Men_, though lacking nuance in most areas, portrayed this pretty well, if rather bluntly. 

Anyway, with that in mind, I think she'd be more focused on how this affects Bruce emotionally rather than the "logistics" of marrying and loving a thief. If it makes him happy, and Selina is also happy...it'd be pretty crappy of her to start taking a moral high ground _especially_ when it comes to matters of the heart. Remember how her dating history is kind of, uh, really shady? I guess we'll find out next month if she'd have actually stayed with Safiyah had "the thing" not made her choose to leave, but even still. This'd be just weird if it was an issue.

----------


## Caivu

> Wow, I have to just completely disagree with you on this one. Kate _can_ veer into "black and white" mode, but if memory serves that only happens when things have gotten extremely personal and her judgement is clouded. Read: her dad. Everything else has been, for the most part, pretty grey...in a sense. It's more like...her sense of purpose is black and white (if she has one, she's good. If not, everything is on fire) but her actions within that framework are nowhere near as absolute as Bruce. _Night of the Monster Men_, though lacking nuance in most areas, portrayed this pretty well, if rather bluntly.


I may have been unclear. Yes, I agree that in terms of actions, she's more gray, but her morals _tend_ to be less flexible than that. She's not Rorschach or anything, but still.  




> Anyway, with that in mind, I think she'd be more focused on how this affects Bruce emotionally rather than the "logistics" of marrying and loving a thief. If it makes him happy, and Selina is also happy...it'd be pretty crappy of her to start taking a moral high ground _especially_ when it comes to matters of the heart. Remember how her dating history is kind of, uh, really shady? I guess we'll find out next month if she'd have actually stayed with Safiyah had "the thing" not made her choose to leave, but even still. This'd be just weird if it was an issue.


I think that slight hypocrisy on her part might be interesting, though. Besides, even though she's had some shady romantic partners, she's never proposed to one, and she was with Safiyah when she was in a messed-up, negative, immature time in her life. Bruce doesn't have that excuse.

I will say that as interesting as I think that'd be, I'm leaning more toward your idea now.

----------


## Caivu

Some in-progress print art by Elsa Charretier:

IMG_20170609_141316.jpg

----------


## Punisher007

I think it would also depend on the type.  Selina might be a thief, but she's not a fundamentally evil/bad person, and she's risked her neck to help others before.  So that might change how Kate views things to.

----------


## Caivu

> I think it would also depend on the type.  Selina might be a thief, but she's not a fundamentally evil/bad person, and she's risked her neck to help others before.  So that might change how Kate views things to.


Yeah, that definitely makes it a bit tricky. They were both part of the final mission in B&RE, including being in the same room during the mopup of Mother's base, so they realistically would've seen each other there. And I don't think Kate of all people would find someone eliminating an entire terrorist network singlehandedly _that_ objectionable (if she indeed doesn't know Selina's innocent of that).

I'm starting to change my view on this. Now I'm thinking she'd find it unwise, but would be okay with it if it makes Bruce happy (though she might still have some friction with him if he decides to leave the game entirely). I've thought for a while now that she and Selina should be roughly Seinfeld/Newman in their relationship, and that could still be true in this case.

----------


## Caivu

By @jcdesign05 on Instagram:

BWFlat.JPG

----------


## Caivu

So, the obvious choice for the actress referred to here (assuming it's supposed to be a reference to a real person, of course) is Kristen Stewart, but I've also heard someone bring up Kate Beckinsale:

Screenshot_20170609-142615.jpg

----------


## darkseidpwns

Chastain is my choice.

----------


## Caivu

> Chastain is my choice.


She was in multiple vampire movies?

----------


## darkseidpwns

> She was in multiple vampire movies?


Oops thought we were fan casting Kate.

----------


## Katana500

If the event in Batman 24 does come to pass, I think it would be highly likely we would see Batwoman and the rest of the teams reaction in TEC. It would be interesting to see how Tynion would approach it, and if their is any similiar aspects you guys suggested above.

----------


## Caivu

> If the event in Batman 24 does come to pass, I think it would be highly likely we would see Batwoman and the rest of the teams reaction in TEC. It would be interesting to see how Tynion would approach it, and if their is any similiar aspects you guys suggested above.


If Selina says yes, I'd be pretty shocked if it wasn't at least mentioned, even if the actual marriage doesn't end up happening.

----------


## The Whovian

> So, the obvious choice for the actress referred to here (assuming it's supposed to be a reference to a real person, of course) is Kristen Stewart, but I've also heard someone bring up Kate Beckinsale:
> 
> Attachment 50427


Kristen Stewart?? Blech!

----------


## Caivu

> Kristen Stewart?? Blech!


Well, if you know of any other (preferably lesbian, bi, or otherwise queer) actresses who have been in multiple vampire movies, I'm all ears.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## The Whovian

> Well, if you know of any other (preferably lesbian, bi, or otherwise queer) actresses who have been in multiple vampire movies, I'm all ears.


Why do they have to be bi or lesbian? Straight actresses have played bi and lesbian characters before. I doubt a straight woman would turn down the role just because they didn't want to play a lesbian character in a movie. It's why it's called 'acting'.  :Smile:

----------


## Caivu

> Why do they have to be bi or lesbian? Straight actresses have played bi and lesbian characters before. I doubt a straight woman would turn down the role just because they didn't want to play a lesbian character in a movie. It's why it's called 'acting'.


We're not talking about casting. We're talking about the actress referred to in the opening of issue #958, who Kate would apparently like to flirt with or even take home for the night.

----------


## The Whovian

> We're not talking about casting. We're talking about the actress referred to in the opening of issue #958, who Kate would apparently like to flirt with or even take home for the night.


Oh. Never mind then  :Wink:

----------


## Caivu

A reminder that this is released this Wednesday:

51PIMzky1TL.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

> A reminder that this is released this Wednesday:
> 
> 51PIMzky1TL.jpg


Is this a hardcover second print release?

----------


## Caivu

> Is this a hardcover second print release?


It looks like it's softcover. It collects "Elegy" and "Go", which have been collected before, but also includes "Cutter", which is collected for the first time here.

----------


## The Whovian

> It looks like it's softcover. It collects "Elegy" and "Go", which have been collected before, but also includes "Cutter", which is collected for the first time here.


Thanks. I have the hardcover already so I'll pass on this.

----------


## Caivu

By Erica Batton:

IMG_20170611_132839.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Found some Batwoman-related drink mixes and a drinking game for _Elegy_, from Funnybooks and Firewater. I'm editing them here due to some typos.

downloadfile.jpg

- 1.5 oz Vodka

- 0.5 oz of Cointreau or triple sec

- 0.5 oz of pomegranate juice

- 1 oz of fresh sweet and sour mix

Shake well.

downloadfile-2.jpg

- 1.5 oz Jack Daniel's Whiskey

- 1.5 oz Drambuie Liqueur 

Shake with ice and strain into a lowball glass.


downloadfile-1.jpg

*Twice Named, Twice Drunk*

Every time the phrase "Twice Named" is mentioned, take 2 drinks. 

*The Logo*

Every time the panels are laid out in Batwoman's logo, take a drink.

*We're All Just a Little Mad*

Every time there is an _Alice in Wonderland_ quote, take a drink.

----------


## millernumber1

> *We're All Just a Little Mad*
> 
> Every time there is an _Alice in Wonderland_ quote, take a drink.


Oh, man, you just want to kill Kate and Alice/Beth fans, don't you.  :Wink:

----------


## Caivu

> Oh, man, you just want to kill Kate and Alice/Beth fans, don't you.


Add a slight change of the rules for that one: use beer shots.

----------


## Caivu

By Avi Kanish:

582dc9f4-dad9-4c5a-b095-eac8b76a784c.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Another piece by Chris Visions:

IMG_20170612_132243.jpg

----------


## Caivu

No surprise that Kate made this list... but how did she rank?

http://www.cbr.com/pride-fighters-th...r-superheroes/

----------


## Caivu

Sketch by Ben Oliver:

Screenshot_20170612-163423.jpg

----------


## Man-Thing

Finally bit the bullet and decided to fill the gap in my shelf. Have ordered the trades of Andreyko's run, along with the new "Batwoman" volume that includes the _entirety_ of the original Tec run, Cutter included  :Smile:

----------


## Katana500

> No surprise that Kate made this list... but how did she rank?
> 
> http://www.cbr.com/pride-fighters-th...r-superheroes/


I guess she is probably the most important LGBT Superhero around, so no surprise there  :Smile:

----------


## Caivu

> I guess she is probably the most important LGBT Superhero around, so no surprise there


I was honestly surprised (though pleased, of course) to see her there.




> Finally bit the bullet and decided to fill the gap in my shelf. Have ordered the trades of Andreyko's run, along with the new "Batwoman" volume that includes the _entirety_ of the original Tec run, Cutter included


Be sure to report back on how the new edition is! I haven't been able to determine if it also includes the Question backups (guessing no) or any extra material, like concept sketches and stuff.

----------


## Katana500

> I was honestly surprised (though pleased, of course) to see her there.


The only one im suprised isnt above is WonderWoman, but I guess thats because its just been a recent development for her, not really explored.

----------


## millernumber1

> Be sure to report back on how the new edition is! I haven't been able to determine if it also includes the Question backups (guessing no) or any extra material, like concept sketches and stuff.


I don't know why the Question backups would be included, though - the title is "Batwoman," and she's not even a guest in the backups. I think a reprint of Pipeline would be good, though - as well as a first printing of Manhunter: Face the Face (the Streets of Gotham backups from around the same time).

----------


## Caivu

> I don't know why the Question backups would be included, though - the title is "Batwoman," and she's not even a guest in the backups. I think a reprint of Pipeline would be good, though - as well as a first printing of Manhunter: Face the Face (the Streets of Gotham backups from around the same time).


I could see them being included just because they're part of the collected issues, but that also wouldn't make much sense because that story continues past issue #863. That's mainly why I don't think they will.

----------


## millernumber1

> I could see them being included just because they're part of the collected issues, but that also wouldn't make much sense because that story continues past issue #863. That's mainly why I don't think they will.


The only time I've seen backups collected like that is when they are directly connected to the main storyline(s) - such as the Wrath volume of n52 Tec, where the backups about Man-Bat were related to a lot of what was going on, or The Black Mirror, where the backups were more like a separate chapter of the story. Plus, as you say, the Pipeline backups continued for probably about five or six more issues than Rucka was writing the main feature.

----------


## Man-Thing

> as well as a first printing of Manhunter: Face the Face (the Streets of Gotham backups from around the same time).


 That's another pesky gap in my shelf that I hope gets filled some day...

----------


## Caivu

Sketch cover WIP by Bella Rachlin:

Screenshot_20170613-000329.jpg

Screenshot_20170613-000258.jpg

----------


## Caivu

So, I'm doing a reread of the series so far to prepare for issue #4, partially to catch anything I may have missed or that's been recontextualized as new issues have been released. I plan to write a larger thing about this, but already two bits of dialogue have caught my eye. I may have discussed some of this before, but I don't remember.

Anyway:

Screenshot_20170614-134043.jpg

"Twins are the great untapped secret weapon of our time." 

That smells of foreshadowing to me, especially with the reference to Gabi's death in the #4 solicit. Could it be that the twins were the actual target of the kidnapping, specifically because they were twins? If so, it raises the question of what Kate would've become had she not been rescued, since we can make some reasonable guesses about Beth. I've always figured that Gabi was the primary target, or at the very least the three of them were roughly equal in value to the kidnappers.

Screenshot_20170614-134114.jpg

"Your daddy can't help you now, soldier."

This one's a bit more straightforward.  In context, Sophie's line relates to what she goes on to talk about (she and Kate's future in the Army) but until now it didn't occur to me that it probably also relates to their sparring. Because duh, right? It's what they're doing in this scene, after all.

It's a line that implies that Jacob "saved" Kate in some way, and that Sophie knows about it. I doubt it refers to the rescue operation, because that'd be pretty taboo to bring up. 

Something I think works pretty elegantly is that Kate was on West Point's boxing team and was getting her ass kicked at a smoker several months or so prior (hell, maybe even by Sophie). Jacob was in attendance since he's a good dad, and he made his way ringside to give Kate some encouragement and pointers that allowed her to eke out a win. I dunno, maybe I'm reading into that too much.

More to come as I hopefully find more things.

----------


## Caivu

Screencap of a warmup timelapse by Claire Rodriguez:

Screenshot_20170614-151537.jpg

----------


## Caivu

WIP by Sean Carroll:

Screenshot_20170614-171444.jpg

By Carlyle Wilson:

IMG_20170614_170330.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Ramon Villalobos:

971722c6-8e21-426e-abf7-155a6ac37709.jpg

And an update on Becca Rachlin's sketch cover:

Screenshot_20170614-201024.jpg

----------


## AcesX1X

do you think we'll ever see kate in the movies?

----------


## Caivu

> do you think we'll ever see kate in the movies?


Ever? Sure. Soon? That I'm less confident about... but the huge success of Wonder Woman gives me more hope of that than I had, say, six months ago. If Batgirl does well, I could see it. Plus there have been rumors of her possibly being in Gotham City Sirens (which is a long shot).

I have mixed feelings on her joining the DCEU, because on the Gotham side of things, the story feels very late-stage. Batman's older than he's usually depicted, for example. If she were to be in it, having her be close to Bruce's age like she is in the comics would be the wrong way to go (because she'd either have started being Batwoman in her late 30s, or else was active this entire time and just wasn't referred to, which isn't ideal for a movie), but having her be 20 years younger also seems wrong.

----------


## Caivu

By Kent Archer:

Screenshot_20170615-172106.jpg

By Michael Mencer:

Screenshot_20170614-200918.jpg

----------


## millernumber1

> By Kent Archer:
> 
> Screenshot_20170615-172106.jpg
> 
> By Michael Mencer:
> 
> Screenshot_20170614-200918.jpg


That latter one looks kinda like Mother Panic  :Wink:

----------


## Caivu

> That latter one looks kinda like Mother Panic


Probably unintentional, but still fitting.

----------


## Troian

> do you think we'll ever see kate in the movies?


Possibly eventually but even then I highly doubt it.

----------


## Caivu

By Jeff Dekal:

Screenshot_20170615-224618.jpg

Sketch cover by Devin Lawson:

Screenshot_20170615-225111.jpg

----------


## Man-Thing

The Andreyko trades came in yesterday. Gotta love all the review snippets plastered all over the front and back covers. I particularly like the one that reads "Offers everything any fan of the character could ask for." (bonus, that quote is superimposed over the cover of Issue 34)

My eyes can only roll so much, guys.

----------


## millernumber1

> The Andreyko trades came in yesterday. Gotta love all the review snippets plastered all over the front and back covers. I particularly like the one that reads "Offers everything any fan of the character could ask for." (bonus, that quote is superimposed over the cover of Issue 34)
> 
> My eyes can only roll so much, guys.


Bwahahaha. The Andreyko issues offered exactly two things I, as a fan, wanted: Jeremy Haun's art (and that was supplanted by the incredibly ugly art of the last arc), and Beth/Alice's return.

That's not everything, just saying.  :Smile:

----------


## Caivu

Some more drinks.

download (5).jpg

- 2 1/4 cups sugar
- 2 cups warm water
- 1/2 cup coarsely cracked black pepper, plus 1 tablespoon finely ground black pepper
- 2 quarts strawberries, hulled and halved
- 2 1/2 cups blanco tequila (20 ounces)
- 1 1/4 cups fresh lime juice (10 ounces)
-1 teaspoon salt
- 1 lemon wedge
- Ice

- In a medium saucepan, combine 2 cups of the sugar with the warm water and bring to a boil, stirring to dissolve the sugar. Remove the saucepan from the heat, stir in the 1/2 cup of coarsely cracked black pepper and let cool. Cover with plastic and refrigerate for 3 hours.
- Pour the black pepper syrup through a fine-mesh strainer into a large measuring cup.
- In a large pitcher, muddle the halved strawberries. Add 2 1/4 cups of the black pepper syrup, the tequila and fresh lime juice (reserve the remaining black pepper syrup for another cocktail). 
- Refrigerate until chilled, about 1 hour.
- On a small plate, mix the remaining 1/4 cup of sugar with the finely ground black pepper and the salt. 
- Moisten half of the outer rims of 10 rocks glasses with the lemon wedge and coat lightly with the pepper-and-salt mixture. Fill the rocks glasses with ice. 
- Stir the drink well, then pour or strain into the prepared rocks glasses and serve at once.

download.jpg

Over ice, layer:

- 1 shot of Southern Comfort

- 1 shot of Amaretto

- 1 shot of Grand Mariner

----------


## Caivu

Sketch cover by Richard Cox:

Screenshot_20170616-184547.jpg

By Amy Reeder:

IMG_20170616_161704.jpg

----------


## Man-Thing

I'd also just like to reiterate one last time that I really do think these two trades should have been split up into three, with the first Annual tacked on to the end of This Blood is Thick, just for closure, even if it's not great closure.

To reiterate earlier points:

Six issues of Webs.

Material from Secret Origins + three issues of Nocturnal Species + Future's End.

Six issues of Unknowns + Annual 2.

End result: This Blood trade becomes a bit larger, Unknowns trade gets a little smaller, Webs is the same length as To Drown the World, and Nocturnal Species is roughly the size of the new Elegy trade.

----------


## Caivu

> I'd also just like to reiterate one last time that I really do think these two trades should have been split up into three, with the first Annual tacked on to the end of This Blood is Thick, just for closure, even if it's not great closure.
> 
> To reiterate earlier points:
> 
> Six issues of Webs.
> 
> Material from Secret Origins + three issues of Nocturnal Species + Future's End.
> 
> Six issues of Unknowns + Annual 2.
> ...


I do like the idea of putting the first annual in a logical place like that... but I think I like that DC didn't get money from an additional TPB even more. Not for that crap.

----------


## Caivu

By Bradey Sooter:

Screenshot_20170616-212012.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Two from Meredith Laxton; the first from last October, the second from today:

Screenshot_20170617-155731.jpg

Screenshot_20170617-155528.jpg

----------


## Bukdiah

Ah, I remember reading New 52 Batwoman. I gave volume 1 a go but just could not get into it. I just never liked the supernatural stuff. She's great in Detective Comics though.

----------


## Caivu

That's a bit of a shame. The character arc she went through during Williams and Blackman's run (mainly  "becoming less hard-nosed about working alone") is a big part of what makes her position in Rebirth make sense.

----------


## millernumber1

I just read Rucka's "Batman: New Gotham volume 1" which collects his run immediately post NML, and I'm really surprised - the character of Abbot, who I have always been really not a fan of in the Batwoman series, was originally one of Ra's al Ghul's soldiers, and his werewolf form is the result of Ra's alchemy, rather than the Religion of Crime.

This makes me like him (as a concept) a lot better. I'll have to reread Elegy at some point and see what Rucka was doing there (I'd probably have to reread 52 as well).

----------


## Caivu

81st place for May.

Screenshot_20170618-100911.jpg

For reference, the 81st comic in April sold 27,840. So if #3's numbers are around there, it would actually be close to 30k since it was still returnable.

----------


## Punisher007

The supernatural stuff is actually what I like about it.  It gives her her unique own niche within the Batfamily.

----------


## millernumber1

> The supernatural stuff is actually what I like about it.  It gives her her unique own niche within the Batfamily.


To me, it stretched her too far away from the Gotham I know and love for me to really embrace her niche.

----------


## Punisher007

If everything is the same, it gets boring/repetitive for me.

----------


## Man-Thing

> I just read Rucka's "Batman: New Gotham volume 1" which collects his run immediately post NML, and I'm really surprised - the character of Abbot, who I have always been really not a fan of in the Batwoman series, was originally one of Ra's al Ghul's soldiers, and his werewolf form is the result of Ra's alchemy, rather than the Religion of Crime.
> 
> This makes me like him (as a concept) a lot better. I'll have to reread Elegy at some point and see what Rucka was doing there (I'd probably have to reread 52 as well).


I didn't actually know he was a pre-existing character!

I already knew about Chase and the DEO, and I guess Mags and Renee, but are any of the other supporting cast from previous stories/runs I should know about?

----------


## Caivu

> I didn't actually know he was a pre-existing character!
> 
> I already knew about Chase and the DEO, and I guess Mags and Renee, but are any of the other supporting cast from previous stories/runs I should know about?


Aside from Bette, I can't recall any offhand.

----------


## Caivu

May's numbers:

Screenshot_20170619-111016.jpg

Better than I expected after seeing the numbers for April's same-placed comic. And I was mistaken about this issue being returnable, so finally the numbers are accurate. As long as it stays hovering around 30k (there are some likely bumps in the future), this is an okay place to be, if not ideal.

----------


## Caivu

BW7.jpg

*BATWOMAN #7*

Written by MARGUERITE BENNETT
Art by FERNANDO BLANCO
Cover by BEN OLIVER
Variant cover by MICHAEL CHO
Retailers: This issue will ship with two covers. Please see the order form for details. Includes a code for a free digital download of this issue.

“FEAR AND LOATHING” part one! When her father, Colonel Jacob Kane, realized that Kate would never become the soldier he wanted, he chose someone else to lead his secret paramilitary group, the Colony. That man—Colony Prime—hates nobody on Earth the way he hates Kate…and the feeling is mutual! So when the two of them are stranded in the Sahara Desert, heavily dosed with Scarecrow’s fear toxin, with no way to survive except to rely on each other…they might just choose death instead!

On sale SEPTEMBER 20 • 32 pg, FC, $3.99 US • RATED T+

I'm giddy right now.  This sounds awesome.

Also:

RHatO14.jpg

*RED HOOD AND THE OUTLAWS #14*

Written by SCOTT LOBDELL
Art by JOE BENNETT
Cover by MIKE McKONE
Variant cover by GUILLEM MARCH
Retailers: This issue will ship with two covers. Please see the order form for details. Includes a code for a free digital download of this issue.
“Bizarro Reborn” part one! Bizarro is back and he’s better than ever! He’s stronger, he’s faster and now he’s a genius! As if that weren’t enough to deal with, things only get more complicated when the Outlaws find themselves in the crosshairs of the one and only Batwoman, who will stop at nothing to take down the infamous Red Hood!

On sale SEPTEMBER 13 • 32 pg, FC, $3.99 US • RATED T+

----------


## pansy

Kate Vs Jason well this is going to be amazing. Curious as Lobdell had treated Kate, I hope it lasts for a few editions.

----------


## Caivu

First look at Fernando Blanco's take on Batwoman:

IMG_20170620_085744.jpg

----------


## millernumber1

> First look at Fernando Blanco's take on Batwoman:
> 
> Attachment 50749


I really like Blanco's stark contrasts and black lines - I think this should be excellent, similar to Trevor McCarthy's run with Williams and Blackman for art.

----------


## Caivu

> I really like Blanco's stark contrasts and black lines - I think this should be excellent, similar to Trevor McCarthy's run with Williams and Blackman for art.


Especially since it sounds like Kate and Simon are going to be tripping balls the entire arc.

----------


## millernumber1

> Especially since it sounds like Kate and Simon are going to be tripping balls the entire arc.


Ahaha. True.  :Smile:  I am actually really excited for this arc!

----------


## Caivu

It's Batwoman Day!

11 years ago today, Kate Kane debuted in the pages of _52_ #7.

52_7.jpg

IMG_y4i12d.jpg

----------


## Man-Thing

partyhat.jpg

Happy publication day Bawoman  :Big Grin:

----------


## Assam

Picked up the first issue of Rebirth Batwoman from the bin while at my LCS. 

Honestly, second verse, same as the first.  It's well written and drawn, though not as well drawn as her early Nu52 stuff,  but like her Nu52 book, it just isn't for me. Honestly, I think Kate just works better for me as a supporting character, or at least as part of an ensemble.  I really enjoy her over in 'Tec, but there really isn't anything about her on her own that I can personally to latch onto. 

Glad a lot of you can still get something out of it though.

----------


## Caivu

in honor of Batwoman Day, I made some Spotify playlists.

First, there's the Batwoman Rebirth Playlist, which uses the songs that the issues in this first arc were titled after: 

https://open.spotify.com/user/talkin...9pnLuOn1zLCW3P

And Kate's Playlist, which is made up of songs I think Kate would listen to on patrol, while working out, etc. I extrapolated from her canonical musical tastes.

https://open.spotify.com/user/talkin...5wO0ViOeUqnBon

----------


## Caivu

> Picked up the first issue of Rebirth Batwoman from the bin while at my LCS. 
> 
> Honestly, second verse, same as the first.  It's well written and drawn, though not as well drawn as her early Nu52 stuff,  but like her Nu52 book, it just isn't for me. Honestly, I think Kate just works better for me as a supporting character, or at least as part of an ensemble.  I really enjoy her over in 'Tec, but there really isn't anything about her on her own that I can personally to latch onto. 
> 
> Glad a lot of you can still get something out of it though.



I'm pretty bummed to hear this, especially today of all days. But at least you tried it.

Do you know what specifically you don't like?

----------


## ss888

> I really like Blanco's stark contrasts and black lines - I think this should be excellent, similar to Trevor McCarthy's run with Williams and Blackman for art.


Blackman is a writer not an artist. He and Williams were co-authors and Williams, McCarthy and Amy Reeder were the rotating artists.

----------


## Assam

> I'm pretty bummed to hear this, especially today of all days. But at least you tried it.
> 
> Do you know what specifically you don't like?


Yeah, I figured today of all times would be a good time to try it out. Oh well. 

It's not that I really disliked anything, so much as what I failed to like. A plot like this, just based in the first issue, which is servicable but nothing special, is fine of the characters shine. As I said though, Kate fails for me as a solo hero. My favorite heroes are all ones I can relate to, and aside from having a dad whose not who she thought they were, I don't have anything at all in common with Kate. That doesn't mean I don't think Kate is a great character though. Any time she's talking with the 'Tec team or Renee, its great stuff because of how well she bounces off them. Amazing character, like her more than a lot of the Batfamily...Her story just isn't for me.

----------


## Caivu

> Yeah, I figured today of all times would be a good time to try it out. Oh well. 
> 
> It's not that I really disliked anything, so much as what I failed to like. A plot like this, just based in the first issue, which is servicable but nothing special, is fine of the characters shine. As I said though, Kate fails for me as a solo hero. My favorite heroes are all ones I can relate to, and aside from having a dad whose not who she thought they were, I don't have anything at all in common with Kate. That doesn't mean I don't think Kate is a great character though. Any time she's talking with the 'Tec team or Renee, its great stuff because of how well she bounces off them. Amazing character, like her more than a lot of the Batfamily...Her story just isn't for me.


Well, fair enough.

Edit: On a more upbeat note, the thread has passed 1,000 responses!

----------


## millernumber1

> Blackman is a writer not an artist. He and Williams were co-authors and Williams, McCarthy and Amy Reeder were the rotating artists.


I know. But I was talking about the times when McCarthy was the artist, when Williams and Blackman were the writers.

----------


## Caivu

This is old news but hasn't been mentioned here, I don't think.

Anyway, Batwoman will finally be getting a big-budget live action appearance!

...in a porn parody of Justice League. Yeah, I know. It's a little odd.

Anyway, the costume was revealed today, worn by Charlotte Stokely, who will be playing Kate:

BW.jpg

The film is being made by a company that apparently has a track record of high-quality films (relatively speaking), and other superhero parodies from them have apparently been pretty faithful to the source material. That seems to be true here; it's been confirmed that Batwoman will only have lesbian scenes in this, and just look at that costume.

I have mixed feeling on this, but all in all, if they're going to do this I appreciate that they're putting a lot of effort into it and being true to the character by the sound of things. There will also apparently be a solo Batwoman film in 2018 from this same company.

----------


## Man-Thing

I have no idea how to feel about that haha

----------


## Caivu

> I have no idea how to feel about that haha


Right? When I first heard, I could basically only go "Well... huh. Okay."

----------


## Man-Thing

If it's a Justice League parody are they pairing her off with Wonder Woman?

Which reminds me, my Love is Love shirt shipped. Need to post a picture when that gets in...

----------


## Caivu

> If it's a Justice League parody are they pairing her off with Wonder Woman?


I believe they are. Stokely and the actress playing Wonder Woman did some fight choreography together.

----------


## Man-Thing

Oh nice! They're doing this right and proper then I see. That's kind of amazing hahah XD

----------


## Caivu

One thing about this week's issue I want to talk about.

I don't remember if I've mentioned this here, but one of the things I've wanted to see Kate go through is getting completely thrashed during a fight, solely due to her opponent being better, and seeing how she reacts. It's something I've felt was missing from her characterization, and so I was hoping the new series would deliver that. She's been badly beaten up once before, but that was due to being drugged and defenseless. I'm talking about a fair fight, no tricks, where Kate ends up bloody on the floor. I think all superheroes need to go through something like that.

Well, issue #4 showed almost exactly what I was looking for. There are some minor nitpicks, like how Kate seemed to be holding herself back a little against Knife (that seems to have started after Kate learned who she really was) and that the fight ends with Knife escaping, but... yeah. Pretty close. Knife kicks the shit out of Kate without Kate being significantly impaired, and it feels appropriate, since Knife had gotten the upper hand on her twice before. It feels like an earned and relatively definitive loss.

And of course Kate's reaction to it, the entire point of this in the first place, was spot-on. She just sorta rolled with it (as opposed to being stupidly vindictive, as Andreyko wrote her after Wolf Spider beat her up), and I think that sort of attitude reflects the change she articulates at the very end: she's not going to go along with Safiyah's whims anymore, and that includes not letting one of her enforcers get under her skin. She reacted similarly at the end of "League of Shadows" and even during "Elegy", so this has precedence.

I dunno, maybe I'm overreading this. But I like fight scenes, and I especially like it when they serve the characters involved, and I think this one did that.

Damn, I want to see these two clash again soon (and more evenly this time).

----------


## Caivu

We finally have an answer to the whole "When did Kate meet Clark?" question:

AwwMan.JPG

Humph.  :Mad:

----------


## Man-Thing

Speaking of Kate/Diana pairings, my new shirt arrived!

----------


## Caivu

> Speaking of Kate/Diana pairings, my new shirt arrived!


Nice! That was the limited edition one, right?

----------


## Caivu

Batwoman #5 variant cover by Michael Cho:

IMG_20170623_224608.jpg

----------


## Man-Thing

> Nice! That was the limited edition one, right?


I believe so, yes. Was a tad pricey (for a shirt), but was too good to pass up  :Smile:

----------


## Caivu

By Tim Laskey:

Screenshot_20170624-180011.jpg

Screenshot_20170625-172428.jpg

----------


## Caivu

BW7.jpg

Just learned that the order cutoff for Batwoman #7 is July 18th, so let your LCS know to order it by then!

----------


## Caivu

One of Marcio Takara's recent daily sketches:

IMG_20170626_140031.jpg

----------


## millernumber1

Mmm. Those Takara sketches are always quality.  :Smile:

----------


## Caivu

Screenshot_20170626-181400.jpg

Screenshot_20170626-193055.jpg

Screenshot_20170626-193116.jpg

----------


## Man-Thing

And they're making us wait? Those bastards! :P

----------


## Caivu

A new interview with J.H. Williams III:




He talks about Batwoman from about 9:00 onward.

----------


## Caivu

Here's some insight as to why the first arc may have left so many readers cold.

----------


## darkseidpwns

Yeah I dont agree with that at all. Having Epting on art is a blessing. The problem is entirely on the script, the villains were uninteresting, the supporting characters were uninteresting, the setting was bland and the basic premise aka Monster Men was just awful. The Scarecrow arc already looks more promising.

----------


## millernumber1

Nice article, though it doesn't deal with my own disappointments. I personally thought Epting was fine, though not quite as moody as I'd hoped for (that's partly a coloring thing, too, I think). To be fair, the solicits for this first arc underwhelmed me - it's a conceptual thing - so the fact that I'm excited about the next issues based on solicits hopefully indicates I'll like the actual issues too.

----------


## Caivu

> Yeah I dont agree with that at all. Having Epting on art is a blessing. The problem is entirely on the script, the villains were uninteresting, the supporting characters were uninteresting, the setting was bland and the basic premise aka Monster Men was just awful. The Scarecrow arc already looks more promising.


You're kinda making the author's point:




> If you look at the dialogue in Batwoman Rebirth, the actual beat for beat events, and consider what those panel descriptions most likely were, it’s not hard to discern why some readers of Batwoman Rebirth find it underwhelming in its execution. *The hooks are there, the specificity is present, she’s still pushing forward, but so very little of it is conveyed effectively, if at all, through the art.*
> 
> *Fact of the matter is, this book as heaps and tons of nuance and subtext but it’s inherently harder to “find” because of how, to be perfectly blunt, kind of sanitized Epting’s style is. The average reader won’t dig deeper into a story if the execution doesn’t draw them in, and that’s true for everything.* But, at the same time, nuance and subtext isn’t the end all, be all. You can do a Batwoman story with very little, provided the text itself is executed effectively flawlessly.
> 
> ...
> 
> Of course, the general fandom will most likely never see the issues here as Epting’s, obviously unintentional, doing.


Epting did a lot of great stuff with drawing parallels through his panel structure and stuff, but his art is too "sanitized" for this type of story. Too clean. He's a great artist, and I like a lot of what he did here. And I can see why he was picked, based on his other work. But someone different may have been better.

A lot of the stuff you claim is "boring" is based on much of the interesting stuff being subtextual... and the claim is that a lot of readers won't catch that subtext due to being hindered by Epting's art.

----------


## Harry McTell

> A new interview with J.H. Williams III:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He talks about Batwoman from about 9:00 onward.


Interesting stuff.
JHW3 is a mega talent.

----------


## Harry McTell

> Batwoman #4 variant cover by Michael Cho:
> 
> Attachment 49773


So glad this was posted here.
Easily one of my fav three BW covers.
Up there with that stunning Alex Ross cover (Tec #860)and the JHW3 Batwoman #0...

----------


## Harry McTell

Epting's BW Rebirth cover is up there too.
I guess I have four at the top...and then all the others.

Other favorite BW covers...?

----------


## Caivu

> Other favorite BW covers...?


My top three, which I'm limiting to one from each era since there are so many good ones...

Adam Hughes's variant to Detective Comics #858:

Tec858.jpg

JHWII's cover to Batwoman #1:

Batwoman_Vol_2_1.jpg

And Steve Epting's Batwoman #1 (J.G. Jones's was really cool, too):

BW_cover.jpg

----------


## Harry McTell

> My top three, which I'm limiting to one from each era since there are so many good ones...
> 
> JHWII's cover to Batwoman #1:
> 
> Batwoman_Vol_2_1.jpg


This is just is so great. 
I didn't include it in my list because I limited myself to only one by each artist.

----------


## Gunsmith Cat

This is a modded Hori Fightstick, i did 6 years ago.

----------


## Caivu

> This is a modded Hori Fightstick, i did 6 years ago.


Pretty cool (and unusual). What did you use to make it?

----------


## Caivu

By Grace Kim:

Screenshot_20170702-033013.jpg

By Key Stuber:

Screenshot_20170702-032838.jpg

By Matias O. Arbon:

Screenshot_20170630-204207.jpg

----------


## yohyoi

I love the JHW3 Batwoman #0. It just pops out of the page with its overly stylistic art and the masterful use of colors and fonts.

----------


## Caivu

By Tiffani King:

Screenshot_20170702-185159.jpg

By Ben Allen:

Screenshot_20170702-184901.jpg

By Costanza Bertani:

Screenshot_20170630-151710.jpg

----------


## Caivu

The finished piece by Matias O. Arbon, from earlier:

BWvsNW.jpg

It's apparently called "Batwoman vs Neon Warriors".

----------


## Caivu

By Dustin Nguyen and Derek Fridolfs:

4b170bd6-a840-4aea-bdc1-4da46bded909.jpg

----------


## Caivu

The upcoming Batwoman figure is scheduled for October!

Screenshot_20170709-151843.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

> The upcoming Batwoman figure is scheduled for October!
> 
> Screenshot_20170709-151843.jpg


The only Batwoman I have (and that I think is beautiful) is the statue. It's awesome next to my other Bat family statues. I tend to stay away from the action figures unless they're bigger like the Batman in armor from the BVS movie. It's easily my favorite female statue that I own.

----------


## The Whovian

> The finished piece by Matias O. Arbon, from earlier:
> 
> BWvsNW.jpg
> 
> It's apparently called "Batwoman vs Neon Warriors".


Oh wow, I like that!

----------


## millernumber1

> The upcoming Batwoman figure is scheduled for October!
> 
> Screenshot_20170709-151843.jpg


What's it look like?




> The only Batwoman I have (and that I think is beautiful) is the statue. It's awesome next to my other Bat family statues. I tend to stay away from the action figures unless they're bigger like the Batman in armor from the BVS movie. It's easily my favorite female statue that I own.


I think my bookstore stocks that statue - if it's the same one, it's really pretty. I have a collection of Heroclix on my desk that I love - haven't checked out the Batwoman figures for that series, though.

----------


## Caivu

> What's it look like?


78c876d7-fbca-4f57-9de7-0dcc4965e923.jpg

c50e5198-d552-4066-8f73-dee32421686d.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

> 78c876d7-fbca-4f57-9de7-0dcc4965e923.jpg
> 
> c50e5198-d552-4066-8f73-dee32421686d.jpg


I don't like how her hair looks with the one pointy ear popping through it on the left side.

----------


## millernumber1

That's a pretty nice fig! So jealous that you guys have one  :Wink:

----------


## The Whovian

> What's it look like?
> 
> 
> 
> I think my bookstore stocks that statue - if it's the same one, it's really pretty. I have a collection of Heroclix on my desk that I love - haven't checked out the Batwoman figures for that series, though.


I should post a pic of my collection. I absolutely love her statue.

----------


## millernumber1

> I should post a pic of my collection. I absolutely love her statue.


Do it!  :Smile:  Where do you display it?

----------


## The Whovian

> Do it!  Where do you display it?


I will tomorrow, if I feel good. I display them all on top of my bookshelves.

----------


## millernumber1

I found an image of the Batwoman Heroclix - looks pretty cool!

1.jpg

----------


## Caivu

I might have to get one if those now.

Just looked them up on eBay to price them. I don't really know what Heroclix exactly is (a tabletop game, I guess), but the card it comes with was interesting:

Screenshot_20170709-220422.jpg

Some relatively in-depth references there. Liquid armor is what Kate originally used on her suit before getting her DEO one (and she presumably still uses it on her other spares). "Combat improvisation" is a good descriptor of how she fights. That's way more character-accurate than I expected.

----------


## millernumber1

> I might have to get one if those now.
> 
> Just looked them up on eBay to price them. I don't really know what Heroclix exactly is (a tabletop game, I guess), but the card it comes with was interesting:
> 
> Screenshot_20170709-220422.jpg
> 
> Some relatively in-depth references there. Liquid armor is what Kate originally used on her suit before getting her DEO one (and she presumably still uses it on her other spares). "Combat improvisation" is a good descriptor of how she fights. That's way more character-accurate than I expected.


Heroclix is a miniatures game, similar to the Star Wars Miniatures games. It's pretty complicated - I don't really know how to play it, I just have a ton of the little guys (they're about 1.5 inches tall) on my desk, because they make figures of character you can't normally get figures of, like Steph as Batgirl (or Steph period), Black Bat, Oracle, etc. The cards usually do have a lot of fun little references to the character's histories - more than you'd expect for a game-based mechanic. I really like how dramatic Kate's figure is, with the red-lined cape flared out like that.

If you get it, post some pics!  :Smile:

----------


## The Whovian

Here's my Batwoman statue and Bat Family statue collection:

----------


## The Whovian



----------


## oasis1313

Is this blk/white Batman the Bruce Wayne or Dick Grayson version?

----------


## The Whovian

> Is this blk/white Batman the Bruce Wayne or Dick Grayson version?


Bruce. It's the Tim Sale version of Batman

----------


## Andru

So I know this probably isn't too relevant anymore, but I just finished reading J.H William's & W. Haden Blackman's New 52 "Batwoman" and I am SO DISAPPOINTED with that ending!

At first I was pretty confused why the 4th volume ended on a cliffhanger and didn't just wrap up the arc. Then I finished the "story" in the 5th volume and was even more confused with the rushed ending.

This led to the research which led to the explanation  :Frown: 

I so badly want to read the last 2 issues of what Williams & Blackman had planned!

----------


## Caivu

> So I know this probably isn't too relevant anymore, but I just finished reading J.H William's & W. Haden Blackman's New 52 "Batwoman" and I am SO DISAPPOINTED with that ending!
> 
> At first I was pretty confused why the 4th volume ended on a cliffhanger and didn't just wrap up the arc. Then I finished the "story" in the 5th volume and was even more confused with the rushed ending.
> 
> This led to the research which led to the explanation 
> 
> I so badly want to read the last 2 issues of what Williams & Blackman had planned!


Me too. However, I don't think the originally-intended ending would've been _that_ different from what we got, honestly. Better art and writing, probably, but the general shape would likely have been similar. But I also know that ending was supposed to seed stuff for the next year or so of story, none of which ended up being used.

----------


## Caivu

Some new art from Babs Tarr:

IMG_20170711_165811.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Inking progress from Fernando Blanco:

Screenshot_20170712-102011.jpg

Crash landing?

----------


## millernumber1

Nice! I really like Blanco's art, and think he's a good fit.

----------


## Caivu

It's also a bit noteworthy that this is the first time Kate's mask has ever been cracked (as far as I can remember).

----------


## millernumber1

Have we ever gotten confirmation that Kate's nano-tube armor is still in play?

----------


## Caivu

> Have we ever gotten confirmation that Kate's nano-tube armor is still in play?


I don't think there's been hard confirmation, but after all the shit the DEO put her through, I think she just kept it. Out of spite if nothing else.

----------


## millernumber1

> I don't think there's been hard confirmation, but after all the shit the DEO put her through, I think she just kept it. Out of spite if nothing else.


But do the writers know that?

----------


## Caivu

> But do the writers know that?


Maybe? She  _does_ have other suits (at least three spares), which are presumably more akin to her Elegy suit since they're able to be cut with conventional blades, so her wearing a less advanced suit isn't unusual.

----------


## darkseidpwns

> Have we ever gotten confirmation that Kate's nano-tube armor is still in play?


She gave it away at the end of the Williams run didn't she? its never been acknowledged elsewhere.

----------


## Caivu

> She gave it away at the end of the Williams run didn't she? its never been acknowledged elsewhere.


No? It doesn't say she did. She still has her taser gloves, too, even if she hasn't really used them since.

----------


## millernumber1

> Maybe? She  _does_ have other suits (at least three spares), which are presumably more akin to her Elegy suit since they're able to be cut with conventional blades, so her wearing a less advanced suit isn't unusual.


Hmm. I'm just suspicious about tech that isn't referenced again by new writing teams.

----------


## Caivu

> Hmm. I'm just suspicious about tech that isn't referenced again by new writing teams.


If it's not been confirmed that she doesn't have it anymore, the reasonable assumption should be that she still does, even if it's not used a lot.

----------


## millernumber1

> If it's not been confirmed that she doesn't have it anymore, the reasonable assumption should be that she still does, even if it's not used a lot.


I agree - I'll be thrilled if Kate mentions or uses it again. I just don't think we can assume that the writers intend us to think she's using it as her normal suit in Tec and her solo.

----------


## darkseidpwns

> No? It doesn't say she did. She still has her taser gloves, too, even if she hasn't really used them since.


I thought she gave it away, hmmm. Well it makes sense right? she was done with the DEO and that includes their tech.

----------


## Caivu

> I thought she gave it away, hmmm. Well it makes sense right? she was done with the DEO and that includes their tech.


It doesn't really fit her character to just return that stuff after what they put her through. And that's assuming they even asked for it back.

----------


## millernumber1

I agree - I think she still probably has it - but I don't think the writers are writing her as using it as her normal suit.  Why? Um...dunno. But I feel like that would be an important detail that she's completely, ridiculously bulletproof.

----------


## Bat-Meal

I'm still waiting for the DEO to retaliate.  I mean come on, they know her real identity and stuff, and they obviously aren't afraid of going-up against Batman.

----------


## Caivu

> I'm still waiting for the DEO to retaliate.  I mean come on, they know her real identity and stuff, and they obviously aren't afraid of going-up against Batman.


Why would they? That entire mess was solely due to Bones and his delusions. Chase is the Director now, and apart from she and Kate hating each other, there's no reason for them to get involved again.

----------


## Bat-Meal

Because the Knife and Colony Prime are *boring* villains.  The DEO and ROC are more compelling antagonists, and at least there was some chemistry with Chase.  The Batwoman Rebirth run has been super-dull so far IMO. >_<

----------


## darkseidpwns

Well that I absolutely agree with, I miss the freak of the week style horror villains

----------


## millernumber1

> Because the Knife and Colony Prime are *boring* villains.  The DEO and ROC are more compelling antagonists, and at least there was some chemistry with Chase.  The Batwoman Rebirth run has been super-dull so far IMO. >_<


Knife, yes. Colony Prime? I actually am really excited about that confrontation. He takes such joy in being a jerk.

----------


## Bat-Meal

I also want to know what Beth/Alice's current status is (I prefer her as a villain), and what Batman's thoughts on her are - since she is his other cousin and that relationship (or lack-of) has never been explored.  I want her to make another appearance and start causing trouble for everyone.  

Plus, come on, identical twins! *So much potential* there - I want to see a storyline where at least one of them impersonates the other (and in Elegy it was stated they used to do so as children).  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## millernumber1

> I also want to know what Beth/Alice's current status is (I prefer her as a villain), and what Batman's thoughts on her are - since she is his other cousin and that relationship (or lack-of) has never been explored.  I want her to make another appearance and start causing trouble for everyone.  
> 
> Plus, come on, identical twins! *So much potential* there - I want to see a storyline where at least one of them impersonates the other (and in Elegy it was stated they used to do so as children).


I prefer her as a hero, because I want Kate to have some healing from the murder of her mother and sister, and if Beth stays a villain, I don't see a chance of that.

But mostly, I just want them to use her. And not freaking Knife.

----------


## Caivu

> Because the Knife and Colony Prime are *boring* villains.  
> 
> ...
> 
> The Batwoman Rebirth run has been super-dull so far IMO. >_<


I completely disagree. They're both twisted reflections of Kate, which is ideal for both of them serving as her archenemies. Knife is essentially a failed, prototype Kate in a sense, and Colony Prime is a demonstration of what she could become. Those aspects of them feed into their respective reasons for hating her. It's pretty interesting stuff.

----------


## Bat-Meal

> I prefer her as a hero.


If they go the hero route I want it to be a struggle with actual character development and tension, like trust issues and such (like the others keeping a close watch on her) - she was raised by villains and is traumatized after all, and the Marc Andreyko version was awful where she just turns-up and _'bam! Look! Now she's suddenly a hero and the sisters trust each other! Yay!'_. *Ugh!* >_<

I think she'd be better as an anit-hero than hero.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Bat-Meal

> I completely disagree. They're both twisted reflections of Kate, which is ideal for both of them serving as her archenemies. Knife is essentially a failed, prototype Kate in a sense, and Colony Prime is a demonstration of what she could become. Those aspects of them feed into their respective reasons for hating her. It's pretty interesting stuff.


I prefer her sister as the true twisted reflection of Batwoman.  

To me the Knife and Prime are boring jerks with petty grudges like schoolyard bullies - they don't have that creepy obsessive fanaticism of Kate like the ROC, or the manipulative and controlling nature of the DEO over Kate.  The reasons for being enemies is all too surface level and simple for my taste, there's little that's deeply psychologically disturbing there, but with her sister as a villain you get that in bucket loads - to go from being able to finish each others sentences to having so little understanding so as not to recognize your own twin when face to face.

----------


## Caivu

> I prefer her sister as the true twisted reflection of Batwoman.


She can still be that, just of a different type than the other two.




> To me the Knife and Prime are boring jerks with petty grudges like schoolyard bullies - they don't have that creepy obsessive fanaticism of Kate like the ROC, or the manipulative and controlling nature of the DEO over Kate.


That's true. That's part of why I like them. They're just violent, jealous, petty assholes. Something different that still makes sense in regard to Kate, hitting the more military side of her character than the horror one.

(Now that I think about it, Shard is sort of a simpler precursor to these two.)




> The reasons for being enemies is all too surface level and simple for my taste, there's little that's deeply psychologically disturbing there, but with her sister as a villain you get that in bucket loads - to go from being able to finish each others sentences to having so little understanding so as not to recognize your own twin when face to face.


They don't have to be "psychologically disturbing," though. That's trying to fit them into the Alice mold when they don't need to. All that does is create carbon-copy villains.

----------


## millernumber1

> I completely disagree. They're both twisted reflections of Kate, which is ideal for both of them serving as her archenemies. Knife is essentially a failed, prototype Kate in a sense, and Colony Prime is a demonstration of what she could become. Those aspects of them feed into their respective reasons for hating her. It's pretty interesting stuff.


I think that's the intent. But...Colony Prime is interesting to me because he's a different direction of an aspect of Kate's character - the military side, the side her father represents, but gone much darker. Knife is...a really less well done and interesting version of Beth. Why do we need less well done Beth when Beth has so much more potential?




> If they go the hero route I want it to be a struggle with actual character development and tension, like trust issues and such (like the others keeping a close watch on her) - she was raised by villains and is traumatized after all, and the Marc Andreyko version was awful where she just turns-up and _'bam! Look! Now she's suddenly a hero and the sisters trust each other! Yay!'_. *Ugh!* >_<
> 
> I think she'd be better as an anit-hero than hero.


I agree - I would want it do be a difficult choice for Beth. I liked the Andreyko version because she did the rhyming and weird speech, and had a cool design, and most of all, was an actual exploration of the things about Kate I wanted explored - but she wasn't particularly well done. Just a huge leap better than the rest of the series.

I'd be okay with anti-hero. I'm just not interested in a repeat of her Elegy form.

----------


## Caivu

> I think that's the intent. But...Colony Prime is interesting to me because he's a different direction of an aspect of Kate's character - the military side, the side her father represents, but gone much darker. Knife is...a really less well done and interesting version of Beth. Why do we need less well done Beth when Beth has so much more potential?


What do you mean? Knife really isn't similar to Beth at all that I can see, except in the broadest possible ways. I even recall both writers saying they intended for her to be profoundly different from Beth, even down to her visual design.

----------


## millernumber1

> What do you mean? Knife really isn't similar to Beth at all that I can see, except in the broadest possible ways. I even recall both writers saying they intended for her to be profoundly different from Beth, even down to her visual design.


Knife and Beth are both mirrors of Kate who became crime lords. Visual design does not really cut it for making the character's role significantly the same as Alice in Elegy - only much, much less in every way.  I am curious - do you find Knife equal to Alice in terms of design, impact, and execution?

----------


## Caivu

> Knife and Beth are both mirrors of Kate who became crime lords. Visual design does not really cut it for making the character's role significantly the same as Alice in Elegy - only much, much less in every way.


Knife isn't a crime lord. She's just an assassin. And visual design is just one aspect of how they differ, not the main one. It's the icing.

There wasn't ever a personal thing between Batwoman and Alice, meaning that Batwoman was never after Alice _because_ she was Alice. Alice just happened to be leading the RoC when they cropped up again and Kate took notice. Similarly, the RoC only cares about Kate inasmuch as they need her to fulfill their prophecy; they're after her for only superficial reasons (with some minor additional beefs with her for thwarting them before, yadda yadda).

In contrast, Knife is completely against Kate for personal reasons, and specifically against _Kate_, not Batwoman. She doesn't even seem to care about that. And Kate doesn't seem to have anything personal against Knife, in contrast to the RoC.

As far as the mirror part goes, Alice and Knife are basically opposite ends of the spectrum if Kate is in the middle. Alice is super showy and theatrical, Knife is stripped-down and no-nonsense. Alice is relatively bubbly, Knife is relatively terse and stoic. Etc, etc.




> I am curious - do you find Knife equal to Alice in terms of design, impact, and execution?


Given that they're so different from each other that's slightly tricky, but taking those things into account... yes. Maybe not perfectly, since again, there are major differences between them.

----------


## millernumber1

> Knife isn't a crime lord. She's just an assassin. And visual design is just one aspect of how they differ, not the main one. It's the icing.
> 
> There wasn't ever a personal thing between Batwoman and Alice, meaning that Batwoman was never after Alice _because_ she was Alice. Alice just happened to be leading the RoC when they cropped up again and Kate took notice. Similarly, the RoC only cares about Kate inasmuch as they need her to fulfill their prophecy; they're after her for only superficial reasons (with some minor additional beefs with her for thwarting them before, yadda yadda).
> 
> In contrast, Knife is completely against Kate for personal reasons, and specifically against _Kate_, not Batwoman. She doesn't even seem to care about that. And Kate doesn't seem to have anything personal against Knife, in contrast to the RoC.
> 
> As far as the mirror part goes, Alice and Knife are basically opposite ends of the spectrum if Kate is in the middle. Alice is super showy and theatrical, Knife is stripped-down and no-nonsense. Alice is relatively bubbly, Knife is relatively terse and stoic. Etc, etc.
> 
> 
> ...


You have some good points about the differences between Alice and Knife - but my real point should have been they're both figures from Kate's past, with mirrored elements, who are on the path of a criminal. My apologies for bad articulation.

Just to clarify - are you saying that in your reading, Many Arms of Death is a story with approximately equal skill in design, impact, and execution as Elegy/Go? Or just that Knife is a character who is designed, impacts you as a reader, and executed as well?

----------


## Caivu

> You have some good points about the differences between Alice and Knife - but my real point should have been they're both figures from Kate's past, with mirrored elements, who are on the path of a criminal. My apologies for bad articulation.


This is part of what I was talking about when I mentioned broad similarities earlier.




> Just to clarify - are you saying that in your reading, Many Arms of Death is a story with approximately equal skill in design, impact, and execution as Elegy/Go? Or just that Knife is a character who is designed, impacts you as a reader, and executed as well?


TMAoD as a story is just a prologue to the rest of the series, and works in that sense. As to the other thing, basically yes.

----------


## millernumber1

> TMAoD as a story is just a prologue to the rest of the series, and works in that sense. As to the other thing, basically yes.


Hmm. Well, I'll have to fundamentally disagree. Elegy/Go was an intricately constructed masterwork (even if it doesn't work quite as well as some of Rucka's other stuff for me). MAoD is a fairly generic opening arc to a series.

Alice has a gimmick - sure, you can say Mad Hatter has a similar gimmick, but her sheer level of lunatic death dealing like the razor blade in the mouth, is quite different. You could also argue that it's Jokeresque - sure, that's also the case, but she has distinctives from that as well, with her position in an organization. Knife is...someone who murders people. She's not even as interesting as Deathstroke or Deadshot, who have gimmicks or close personal connections that complicate their motivations. Knife is just a jealous murderer.  That's what I mean by generic.

----------


## Caivu

> Hmm. Well, I'll have to fundamentally disagree. Elegy/Go was an intricately constructed masterwork (even if it doesn't work quite as well as some of Rucka's other stuff for me). MAoD is a fairly generic opening arc to a series.


I'd say there's quite a bit of craft going on in TMAoD, mostly in the comparisons and contrasts between Kate and Knife. Page structure, color... lots of visual storytelling.




> Alice has a gimmick - sure, you can say Mad Hatter has a similar gimmick, but her sheer level of lunatic death dealing like the razor blade in the mouth, is quite different. You could also argue that it's Jokeresque - sure, that's also the case, but she has distinctives from that as well, with her position in an organization. Knife is...someone who murders people. She's not even as interesting as Deathstroke or Deadshot, who have gimmicks or close personal connections that complicate their motivations. Knife is just a jealous murderer.  That's what I mean by generic.


Knife doesn't _need_ a gimmick (incidentally, that's another difference between her and Alice). The strength of her character comes from her being delusional, obsessive, and petty, and willing to inflict a completely out-of-scale punishment because of it, while at the same time not being a stereotypical cackling psychopath.

----------


## millernumber1

Competently crafted generic storytelling is still generic. I find it...puzzling that you don't see a clear quality difference between what Rucka and Williams did and what Bennett and Epting did. Bennett and Epting aren't bad - I said they were generic, not poorly done - but Rucka and Williams are really unusual talents, and in Elegy, they were both working at a high level even for them. If you want, we can do a page by page comparison, but that's pretty intense for something I think is fairly self evident.

As for Knife not needing a gimmick...um, her name is pretty gimmicky. And this is comics. Specifically superhero comics. About hunting down a serum that turns people into monsters.  Gimmicks are part of the way these kinds of comics work best, and if you try to deny them, you end up with generic, forgettable comics.  There's a great essay by Shamus Young about why Batman doesn't kill the Joker - because Batman is an ongoing story, and killing the Joker means that part of that story is done forever (or howeverlong forever is when you constantly resurrect these characters). What do the writers do when faced with a dead gimmick villain? They either resurrect them, cheapening their death and death in comics in general; they make a copy (Riddler --> Cluemaster), cheapning the gimmick; or they have Batman fight gangsters. And it's forgettable.

I really, really don't believe you think that people are going to remember Knife (as she is now - I reserve the right to change this statement if Bennett decides to seriously beef up her gimmick and uniqueness) as equal to Alice 10 years from now.

----------


## Caivu

> Competently crafted generic storytelling is still generic. I find it...puzzling that you don't see a clear quality difference between what Rucka and Williams did and what Bennett and Epting did. Bennett and Epting aren't bad - I said they were generic, not poorly done - but Rucka and Williams are really unusual talents, and in Elegy, they were both working at a high level even for them. If you want, we can do a page by page comparison, but that's pretty intense for something I think is fairly self evident.


I can give you Epting's art being _relatively_ more generic than Williams, but otherwise I honestly don't know what you mean. I do think _Elegy_ is better, but it isn't vastly more complex of a story than TMAoD is.




> As for Knife not needing a gimmick...um, her name is pretty gimmicky. And this is comics. Specifically superhero comics. About hunting down a serum that turns people into monsters.  Gimmicks are part of the way these kinds of comics work best, and if you try to deny them, you end up with generic, forgettable comics.


Solid character traits are more important than gimmicks, and Knife has those sort of traits.




> I really, really don't believe you think that people are going to remember Knife (as she is now - I reserve the right to change this statement if Bennett decides to seriously beef up her gimmick and uniqueness) as equal to Alice 10 years from now.


I believe she has the potential to, yes. She has a strong basis so far.
I'll ask you this: what would _you_ do to make her more unique? I don't know what you want her to be (or more specifically, what that means).

----------


## millernumber1

Intricately constructed isn't just complexity - it's the emotions evoked, the way it sticks in your memory, the characters, their relationships, the thematic depth. Elegy is a fairly generic story if you take away all the craft used to tell it, I think. It's how it was told - and that's where it's a masterwork, while MAoD is just competent comics.

I don't think that in comics, a gimmick can't be a solid character trait. When you think "Knife is coming to kill you," do you think "Oh, man, that's the best one-eyed assassin in the world with a messed up family" (Deathstroke) or "Better not go near windows or the best shot in the world will bounce a bullet off a plate to try to make it up to his daughter" (Deadshot) or "Don't move, don't breathe, or that clown will do SOMETHING HORRIBLE and vaguely funny to murder me and probably everyone in a mile radius" (duh), or "Watch out for scary riddles" (also duh) or "I hope I get this one, he's pretty incompetent and gives himself away to the police" (Cluemaster  :Wink:  )? No, you think "Man, I'm going to get stabbed. Blah." Whatever. I really don't see how Knife's character traits make her stand out - Colony Prime has all the traits Knife does that you've mentioned - a history with Kate, jealousy, pettiness, revenge - but he also has the Colony, a relationship with her father, and the mission of the Colony in addition. That's why I'm excited about that issue, and not any more Knifeness.

I've already told you what I wanted this series to be about**: Alice, Bette, Jacob, and their relationships with Kate. Instead I got a bunch of characters who I think are pretty self evidently not as interesting as these three characters, plus Julia, who is admittedly the highlight of the book and likely as strong as the others - but notice that she's the only one of these characters who is a previously existing one. So, that's part of why I find this first arc just incredibly disappointing - it's so unnecessary, when I think there are tons of stories to be told that are necessary (other unnecessary stories: Webs. The Unknowns. That Killer Croc one-shot.)

If you held a comic book contract to my head, and said I HAD to write Knife, I would do this: Make "Knife" a super awesome gimmick. Make her like Huntress with her crossbows - she uses knives EVERYWHERE. She has TEN of them all over her body. And some where you can't see them. She constantly pulls them out and does things with them. Knife would be a meaningful gimmick then, not just a name that many were making fun of even before the comic came out (I would like to note that I was not one of the ones making fun of it, because I was hoping that she would have a ridiculous number of knives).

----------


## Caivu

> I really don't see how Knife's character traits make her stand out - Colony Prime has all the traits Knife does that you've mentioned - a history with Kate, jealousy, pettiness, revenge - but he also has the Colony, a relationship with her father, and the mission of the Colony in addition. That's why I'm excited about that issue, and not any more Knifeness.


Her hatred is based on different things than Prime's is, though. Plus she's mentally unstable (though not the standard Ax Crazy sort of unstable) while he isn't. She's serious, he's more smarmy, etc. 




> If you held a comic book contract to my head, and said I HAD to write Knife, I would do this: Make "Knife" a super awesome gimmick. Make her like Huntress with her crossbows - she uses knives EVERYWHERE. She has TEN of them all over her body. And some where you can't see them. She constantly pulls them out and does things with them. Knife would be a meaningful gimmick then, not just a name that many were making fun of even before the comic came out (I would like to note that I was not one of the ones making fun of it, because I was hoping that she would have a ridiculous number of knives).


If you want to talk generic, _that_ idea sounds generic to me. You're reducing her to just "uses lots of knives". There aren't _any_ character traits there.

----------


## millernumber1

> If you want to talk generic, _that_ idea sounds generic to me. You're reducing her to just "uses lots of knives". There aren't _any_ character traits there.


I mean. You would also have character motivations. I'm talking about what I would change. And that would be: make Knife actually interesting because of her knives. Otherwise...she's just a much less interesting assassin than the other two I mentioned. Or Cheshire or Lady Shiva.

But we're talking about characters who swing around one city on ropes dressed as animals.  I don't see how my idea is more generic than that.

----------


## Caivu

A new one by Amy Reeder:

IMG_20170713_172557.jpg

----------


## Harry McTell

She's a great talent. 
Would love to see her do more with Batwoman.
Maybe an annual one day...

----------


## Oberon

I just have to say I like how Caivu and Miller go at it. Your reflections and insights are easy to understand but significant expositions on the matter.  Thanks!

----------


## Oberon

Previously, Millernumber1 said:

've already told you what I wanted this series to be about**: Alice, Bette, Jacob, and their relationships with Kate. Instead I got a bunch of characters who I think are pretty self evidently not as interesting as these three characters, plus Julia, who is admittedly the highlight of the book and likely as strong as the others - but notice that she's the only one of these characters who is a previously existing one. So, that's part of why I find this first arc just incredibly disappointing - it's so unnecessary, when I think there are tons of stories to be told that are necessary (other unnecessary stories: Webs. The Unknowns. That Killer Croc one-shot.)

   and *so this*.  I'm enjoying her new series enough, but I really, terribly miss Bette, Jacob, Alice and their and others various interactions with Kate.  Kate being conflicted with Jacob's wife, things like that. All that personal relationship stuff is really what I look for in comics. I'm an older person now and the action and intrigue and mystery is all STILL so very important to me. But human relationships and feelings are more important, as they inform these actions and mysteries, when done well.  And Batwoman does it well more often than not.

I want to know why Bette entered Westpointe - more on Jacob or more herself or what?  I want to know how deep down whatever rabbit hole Jacob has gone. I think there must be so much more to the idea that he knew (but when and how?) that Beth was alive.

I would also like to see a revival of all the Alice crime story stuff. All that creepy Religion of Crime stuff supplied a distinct tone to Batwoman and I'm sure there is more story there.

----------


## millernumber1

> and *so this*.  I'm enjoying her new series enough, but I really, terribly miss Bette, Jacob, Alice and their and others various interactions with Kate.  Kate being conflicted with Jacob's wife, things like that. All that personal relationship stuff is really what I look for in comics. I'm an older person now and the action and intrigue and mystery is all STILL so very important to me. But human relationships and feelings are more important, as they inform these actions and mysteries, when done well.  And Batwoman does it well more often than not.
> 
> I want to know why Bette entered Westpointe - more on Jacob or more herself or what?  I want to know how deep down whatever rabbit hole Jacob has gone. I think there must be so much more to the idea that he knew (but when and how?) that Beth was alive.
> 
> I would also like to see a revival of all the Alice crime story stuff. All that creepy Religion of Crime stuff supplied a distinct tone to Batwoman and I'm sure there is more story there.


Thanks! I do think that part of my excitement for the Colony Prime storyline is that it's a window into Jacob's world.

----------


## Caivu

Sideshow Collectibles has just announced a new premium format Batwoman figure:

Screenshot_20170716-084846.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

> Sideshow Collectibles has just announced a new premium format Batwoman figure:
> 
> Screenshot_20170716-084846.jpg


Is there a full picture of it?

----------


## Caivu

> Is there a full picture of it?


Not as of yet.

----------


## The Whovian

> Not as of yet.


Ok, thanks. Hopefully it will look neat.

----------


## Caivu

I couldn't help but notice how much Damian sounds like Kate in Super Sons #6:

Screenshot_20170716-115542.jpg

----------


## millernumber1

> I couldn't help but notice how much Damian sounds like Kate in Super Sons #6:
> 
> Screenshot_20170716-115542.jpg


Oooh, good catch. That's really Kate!

----------


## Caivu

A lot of Kate this October. Aside from Batwoman #8 and 'Tec #966 and #967, there's RHatO #15 (with the rest of the 'Tec team!) and possibly Nightwing: The New Order #3. Maybe even Batman #33.

----------


## Assam

> 'Tec #966 and #967,


I'm not sure about that. I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see the 'Tec team (Besides Tim of course) during A Lonely Place of Living.

----------


## millernumber1

> I'm not sure about that. I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see the 'Tec team (Besides Tim of course) during A Lonely Place of Living.


Well, they are on the cover of the first issue of Lonely Place. So I have hope!  :Smile:

----------


## Caivu

Found a full image of the new Sideshow figure:

Screenshot_20170719-151628.jpg

----------


## millernumber1

What's that she's standing on? Looks like ruins? But of what?

----------


## Caivu

> What's that she's standing on? Looks like ruins? But of what?


I think it's just rubble to act as a base.

----------


## millernumber1

> I think it's just rubble to act as a base.


Aww. I like it when there's story-relevant detail.  :Smile:

----------


## Caivu

Some higher-quality images:

IMG_20170719_174927.jpg

IMG_20170719_174857.jpg

----------


## millernumber1

I love the detail, like the matte on her sides, and didn't realize she was holding her pistols. While the pose is still a bit underwhelming, the level of intricacy is really appealing.

----------


## Oberon

I collect action figures and Barbie dolls (since, about same scale, 1/6) and I have some Batgirl and others. I usually display them at the Library I work at or others for various themes; Halloween, "Story" characters, etc.  I'm putting one up in August so I will try to take some pix.  I have 3 Batgirl figures.  1 with her motorcycle, very articulated and poseable (Barbie, btw) and another without the MC, Barbie.  Then I have an action figure from the Batman & Robin movie of Silverstone as Batgirl, so blonde. 


I like to pretend she's Bette Kane, obviously.

----------


## Caivu

Renato Arlem is replacing the originally-solicited Eddy Barrows as the artist for issue #6.

https://www.newsarama.com/35470-batw...s-artists.html

----------


## millernumber1

> Renato Arlem is replacing the originally-solicited Eddy Barrows as the artist for issue #6.
> 
> https://www.newsarama.com/35470-batw...s-artists.html


This seems really late in the game for this announcement. I hope the art isn't rushed. The cover for #6 is pretty awesome.

----------


## batnbreakfast

Does Batwoman have solid numbers? I wouldn't know. Is there a site for stuff like that? Thanks for an answer, guys. Hopefully Kate's solo is here to stay.

----------


## millernumber1

> Does Batwoman have solid numbers? I wouldn't know. Is there a site for stuff like that? Thanks for an answer, guys. Hopefully Kate's solo is here to stay.


Comichron is the place to go for numbers. Caivu's been tracking them.

----------


## Caivu

> Does Batwoman have solid numbers? I wouldn't know. Is there a site for stuff like that? Thanks for an answer, guys. Hopefully Kate's solo is here to stay.


It sold 26,782 copies in June, which is less than a 3k drop from May, so I'm comfortable saying it's stabilized. That sounds low, but DC seems to be willing to let their $3.99 books go until they fall under 10k, if Blue Beetle is any indication. So Batwoman is safe for a while assuming no other factors. 

I'd expect issue #5 to get a bump because of Stephanie Hans, issue #6 to get a bump due to Detective Comics readers who aren't already reading this, and issue #7 (and maybe the rest of the 2nd arc) to get one because of Scarecrow. I've also been particularly aggressive on social media lately reminding people to preorder and let their LCSs know to get Batwoman, so that might make some difference, we'll see.

----------


## Caivu

YES:

IMG_20170721_120309.jpg

I think this is the very first time Kate's been shown driving a car.

----------


## millernumber1

> YES:
> 
> IMG_20170721_120309.jpg
> 
> I think this is the very first time Kate's been shown driving a car.


What's it from? Looks awesome. I assume Blanco?

----------


## Caivu

> What's it from? Looks awesome. I assume Blanco?


Yes, it's him.

----------


## darkseidpwns

I love Blanco's style, really looking forward to his contribution.

Kate will be in BOP, so will Gotham Girl, an upcoming arc that sees all men falling ill or something will unite Gotham's female characters or atleast heroes.

----------


## millernumber1

> I love Blanco's style, really looking forward to his contribution.
> 
> Kate will be in BOP, so will Gotham Girl, an upcoming arc that sees all men falling ill or something will unite Gotham's female characters or atleast heroes.


Where'd we hear about the Birds of Prey appearance?

----------


## Caivu

> Where'd we hear about the Birds of Prey appearance?


There's a panel going on right now. Newsarama is liveblogging it.

https://www.newsarama.com/35518-sdcc...rth-panel.html

----------


## Frontier

> I love Blanco's style, really looking forward to his contribution.
> 
> Kate will be in BOP, so will Gotham Girl, an upcoming arc that sees all men falling ill or something will unite Gotham's female characters or atleast heroes.


I wonder if that includes Steph and Cass?

----------


## darkseidpwns

> I wonder if that includes Steph and Cass?


Its safe to assume I guess.

----------


## millernumber1

Interesting! Nice panel, lots of content, though mostly on the current stuff. No real reveals, other than Batwoman and Gotham Girl showing up in the Birds of Prey.

----------


## Caivu

> I wonder if that includes Steph and Cass?


At least one of them:

Screenshot_20170721-145220.jpg

----------


## millernumber1

> At least one of them:
> 
> Screenshot_20170721-145220.jpg


Here's hoping it's all three... but probably not.  :Frown:

----------


## Caivu

I figured out the car Kate is driving: a Lamborghini Veneno.

Lamborghini-Veneno-Roadster_043.jpg

lamborghini-veneno-roadster-inline2-photo-547156-s-original.jpg

Only 5 were ever built, only 3 were available for sale, and they cost $4.5 million each.

----------


## yohyoi

> I figured out the car Kate is driving: a Lamborghini Veneno.
> 
> Lamborghini-Veneno-Roadster_043.jpg
> 
> lamborghini-veneno-roadster-inline2-photo-547156-s-original.jpg
> 
> Only 5 were ever built, only 3 were available for sale, and they cost $4.5 million each.


Nice detective skills.

----------


## millernumber1

> I figured out the car Kate is driving: a Lamborghini Veneno.
> 
> Lamborghini-Veneno-Roadster_043.jpg
> 
> lamborghini-veneno-roadster-inline2-photo-547156-s-original.jpg
> 
> Only 5 were ever built, only 3 were available for sale, and they cost $4.5 million each.


I love a good Lambo, but I prefer Helena's Gallardo Spyder.  :Smile:

----------


## Caivu

Michael Cho's variant cover for Batwoman #6:

b74d1669-c889-4a89-be4b-92144da65b40.jpg

----------


## Aahz

The Rebirth Series made me again realise what my big problem with her charcater is, it took her forever to come to the point were she decides to become a Superhero, and it feels kind of that she only did it because she was kicked out of the army and didn't knew what to do with her life.

I mean her sister and mother got killed when she was 12, so decides to become soldier (like her father). But that seems not important enough for her to go either with "don't tell" or fight for it when she gets kicked out of Westpoint, instead becomes Partygirl for several years, before she gets rescued by Batman and decides to become a hero herself (with the help of her father). And hanging out with a group of pirates in that time, and her father beeing the leader of the colony also doesn't really made this better imo.

----------


## Harry McTell

> Michael Cho's variant cover for Batwoman #6:
> 
> b74d1669-c889-4a89-be4b-92144da65b40.jpg


So cool.
Loving Michael Cho's art.

----------


## Caivu

> The Rebirth Series made me again realise what my big problem with her charcater is, it took her forever to come to the point were she decides to become a Superhero, and it feels kind of that she only did it because she was kicked out of the army and didn't knew what to do with her life.


That's pretty much it. She _didn't_ know what to do. Serving in the Army was the only thing she ever wanted to do, and once she no longer had that, it broke her.




> I mean her sister and mother got killed when she was 12, so decides to become soldier (like her father). But that seems not important enough for her to go either with "don't tell" or fight for it when she gets kicked out of Westpoint,


That's exactly what makes that choice so powerful, and shows how ptincipled she is. Kate is Chaotic Good, meaning she does what she believes is right even if it seems irrational. Here, it demonstrates that denying who she is is unacceptable to her even if it comes at the cost of giving up her future. That's awesome, and that's before getting into the fact that by leaving West Point, she prevented an investigation that would likely have outed other cadets.




> instead becomes Partygirl for several years, before she gets rescued by Batman and decides to become a hero herself (with the help of her father). And hanging out with a group of pirates in that time, and her father beeing the leader of the colony also doesn't really made this better imo.


Not sure what is puzzling about this. All the stuff between her leaving West Point and her fighting the mugger in the alley (_not_ being rescued by Batman, to clarify) is to show the depths she's capable of going to. And seeing Batman in action, seeing the Batsignal in the sky, is what made it click that she could still serve. That's all she wants to do.

I guess I'm still not sure what you dislike here.

----------


## Caivu

By Todd Nauck:

IMG_20170723_184409.jpg

By Pierre Olivier:

Screenshot_20170721-090518.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

> By Todd Nauck:
> 
> IMG_20170723_184409.jpg


That's really cool!

----------


## Oberon

> That's pretty much it. She _didn't_ know what to do. Serving in the Army was the only thing she ever wanted to do, and once she no longer had that, it broke her.
> 
> 
> 
> That's exactly what makes that choice so powerful, and shows how ptincipled she is. Kate is Chaotic Good, meaning she does what she believes is right even if it seems irrational. Here, it demonstrates that denying who she is is unacceptable to her even if it comes at the cost of giving up her future. That's awesome, and that's before getting into the fact that by leaving West Point, she prevented an investigation that would likely have outed other cadets.
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure what is puzzling about this. All the stuff between her leaving West Point and her fighting the mugger in the alley (_not_ being rescued by Batman, to clarify) is to show the depths she's capable of going to. And seeing Batman in action, seeing the Batsignal in the sky, is what made it click that she could still serve. That's all she wants to do.
> ...


Caivu, fans like me certainly get your summation. It is really spot-on and good.  The original scene in Elegy has staying power and can certainly be revisited or tweaked to bring out new ideas or nuance.

----------


## Caivu

By William Hood:

Screenshot_20170725-154703.jpg

By Amie Wilensky:

Screenshot_20170724-024620.jpg

By Taurin Clarke:

IMG_20170725_155324.jpg

----------


## Aahz

> Kate is Chaotic Good, meaning she does what she believes is right even if it seems irrational.


Not really, her desire to serve is not really in line with chaotic, and not lying about her sexuality and just accepting the consequence seems actually quite lawfull to me.

Chaotic Charcters are rebells, which means someone like Anarchy, Red Hood, Catwoman and maybe Spoiler or Blue Bird, Kate is either lawfull or neutral.

----------


## Caivu

> Not really, her desire to serve is not really in line with chaotic, and not lying about her sexuality and just accepting the consequence seems actually quite lawfull to me.


Not so.

"A chaotic good character acts as his conscience directs him with little regard for what others expect of him. He makes his own way, but he’s kind and benevolent. He believes in goodness and right but has little use for laws and regulations. He hates it when people try to intimidate others and tell them what to do. He follows his own moral compass, which, although good, may not agree with that of society."

That's right out of the DnD Player's Handbook.

Her coming out to her superior officer is clearly this. He expected her to lie, or at the very least to save face, since doing otherwise would be irrational. But she didn't, because she knew that was wrong, even though it cost her immensely. A lawful choice would've been her staying at West Point but being demoted.

I'm also getting definitions from here, specifically the first post: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...nment-Handbook

This is a good summation: "A Chaotic Good character acts on their conscience without regards to what others think, or what they were supposed to do."

_That_ is Kate to a T, and there are multiple examples of it.




> Chaotic Charcters are rebells, which means someone like Anarchy, Red Hood, Catwoman and maybe Spoiler or Blue Bird, Kate is either lawfull or neutral.


 :Confused:  This is kind of broad anyway, but you think _Kate Kane_ of all people isn't a rebel?

Besides, the mark of a Chaotic Good character is that they do right because it's the right thing to do, and screw what anyone else has to say about it. Being a rebel can certainly be a part of that, but isn't absolutely necessary.

----------


## Aahz

> Her coming out to her superior officer is clearly this. He expected her to lie, or at the very least to save face, since doing otherwise would be irrational. But she didn't, because she knew that was wrong, even though it cost her immensely. A lawful choice would've been her staying at West Point but being demoted.


No, because lying is not lawfull. Honor, telling the truth, discipline that are all lawfull qualities, a chaotic character would probaly not even join the army in the first place.




> Being a rebel can certainly be a part of that, but isn't absolutely necessary.


 The Chaotic Good Archetype is even called "Rebel" in my Version of the Players Handbook.

Kate has some lawfull tendencies and some chaotic which makes her by DnD definition in the end Neutral.

----------


## Caivu

> No, because lying is not lawfull. Honor, telling the truth, discipline that are all lawfull qualities, a chaotic character would probaly not even join the army in the first place.


Lying is lawful if it promotes good. Or more specifically in this case, if it promotes order. Kate refusing to compromise is not an orderly choice on her part.

And yes, a chaotic character would indeed join the Army or any other organization if their conscience directed them so.




> Kate has some lawfull tendencies and some chaotic which makes her by DnD definition in the end Neutral.


No. I agree she has a _few_ lawful characteristics, but most of them are chaotic. Most of her _actions_ fit Chaotic Good, which is ultimately what matters: how a character acts.

----------


## Aahz

> Lawful Good, "Crusader"
> 
> A lawful good character acts as a good person is expected or required to act. She combines a commitment to oppose evil with the discipline to fight relentlessly. She *tells the truth, keeps her word*, helps those in need, and speaks out against injustice. A lawful good character hates to see the guilty go unpunished.


There is a reason why Lawful Good characters a commonly know as "Lawful Stupid".

And Lying when it promotes good might be good, but not Lawful.

----------


## Caivu

> There is a reason why Lawful Good characters a commonly know as "Lawful Stupid".
> 
> And Lying when it promotes good might be good, but not Lawful.


You're focusing on just one aspect.

I'm going to use the same source you did and bold the things that apply to Kate.




> Lawful characters *tell the truth, keep their word,* respect authority, honor tradition, and *judge those who fall short of their duties.*
> 
> Chaotic characters *follow their consciences, resent being told what to do, favor new ideas over tradition,* and do what they promise if they feel like it.
> 
> "Law" implies *honor, trustworthiness*, obedience to authority, and *reliability.* On the downside, lawfulness can include close-mindedness, reactionary adherence to tradition, *judgmentalness,* and a lack of adaptability. 
> 
> ...
> 
> "Chaos" implies *freedom, adaptability, and flexibility.* On the downside, chaos can include *recklessness,* resentment toward legitimate authority, *arbitrary actions, and irresponsibility.*


That's 7 in the Lawful column (and I'm being generous with a couple), 9 in the Chaotic. She's not Lawful, man.

----------


## Aahz

> That's 7 in the Lawful column (and I'm being generous with a couple), 9 in the Chaotic. She's not Lawful, man.


That's pretty mach a draw, which would imply neutral.

The alignement system is anyway not that great, and apart from DnD (and it's clones) most other RPGs don't have something like it.

----------


## Caivu

More WIP from Fernando Blanco:

IMG_20170726_091504.jpg

And a confirmation that the second arc will only be two issues?

Screenshot_20170726-094435.jpg

----------


## millernumber1

Two issues. Huh. That's interesting. I hope they're good ones! And then we get to BETH BETTE JACOB CATHERINE ETC!  :Smile:

----------


## Caivu

> Two issues. Huh. That's interesting. I hope they're good ones! And then we get to BETH BETTE JACOB CATHERINE ETC!


It _could_ mean that he's just doing the art for 2 issues out of 5 or whatever.

----------


## Katana500

Kate was pretty awesome in the newest TEC.  Her talking to Zatanna was pretty funny.

----------


## Caivu

> Kate was pretty awesome in the newest TEC.  Her talking to Zatanna was pretty funny.


Yep, great teamwork with Cass. I'd put today's fight in the top 5 Kate's ever been in. Maybe even top 3. Also glad she got to truly meet Z, if not under the best circumstances.

----------


## Assam

> Yep, great teamwork with Cass. I'd put today's fight in the top 5 Kate's ever been in. Maybe even top 3. Also glad she got to truly meet Z, if not under the best circumstances.


The layout and choreography of the fight really were stunning.

----------


## Caivu

By Ace Continuado:

IMG_20170726_232531.jpg

By Dan Asfour:

Screenshot_20170726-232250.jpg

By Brianna Garcia:

Screenshot_20170725-203044.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Drew Edward Johnson:

IMG_20170725_215300.jpg

A Colony werebeast... thing (hallucination?) by Fernando Blanco:

Screenshot_20170725-204805.jpg

And a new sketch by Amy Reeder:

IMG_20170727_150145.jpg

----------


## batnbreakfast

> That's pretty much it. She _didn't_ know what to do. Serving in the Army was the only thing she ever wanted to do, and once she no longer had that, it broke her.
> 
> 
> 
> That's exactly what makes that choice so powerful, and shows how ptincipled she is. Kate is Chaotic Good, meaning she does what she believes is right even if it seems irrational. Here, it demonstrates that denying who she is is unacceptable to her even if it comes at the cost of giving up her future. That's awesome, and that's before getting into the fact that by leaving West Point, she prevented an investigation that would likely have outed other cadets.
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure what is puzzling about this. All the stuff between her leaving West Point and her fighting the mugger in the alley (_not_ being rescued by Batman, to clarify) is to show the depths she's capable of going to. And seeing Batman in action, seeing the Batsignal in the sky, is what made it click that she could still serve. That's all she wants to do.
> ...


Now, I like her even more :Wink: 

Am I the only one who likes Kate's real hair really short Navy Style? It just fits.

----------


## Caivu

> Am I the only one who likes Kate's real hair really short Navy Style? It just fits.


I love it. But then again, she has yet to have a bad hairstyle as far as I'm concerned. I especially like how her hair being so much shorter is never remarked upon by anyone. Kate has a history of being pretty fluid in how masculine or feminine she dresses, and this is just another example of that.

----------


## Caivu

A new, short interview with Bennett about both Batwoman and Bombshells United: https://www.previewsworld.com/Articl...bshells-United

She possibly confirms that "Fear and Loathing" is only two issues, but forms the first part of a 7-issue story.

----------


## Caivu

I'm not really one to promote Kate and Diana fighting _each other_ (apart from their Injusticeverse counterparts), but if such a thing were to happen, marceline2174 has depicted it in an appropriately bloody fashion:

9566ed66-25a2-4fe2-ac99-e7128a3a6126.jpg

----------


## Caivu

There is a rumor, based on some quasi-numerology from All-Star Batman #12, than J.H. Williams III will return to Detective Comics for issue #971 (and possibly more):

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/07...woman-married/

That is inconclusive at best, and I highly, _highly_ doubt this will happen. I only mention it now just it case it does.

----------


## millernumber1

> There is a rumor, based on some quasi-numerology from All-Star Batman #12, than J.H. Williams III will return to Detective Comics for issue #971 (and possibly more):
> 
> https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/07...woman-married/
> 
> That is inconclusive at best, and I highly, _highly_ doubt this will happen. I only mention it now just it case it does.


wut.

wut is this.

That's just stupid.

----------


## Caivu

> wut.
> 
> wut is this.
> 
> That's just stupid.


Right? They're correct that it's a shout-out, if an oddly specific one, but they're reading way too much into it. 

But I'll admit, I am wondering why 971 was picked as a number, since the 1939 was clearly intentional. That's the one detail that gives me a slight pause.

----------


## millernumber1

> Right? They're correct that it's a shout-out, if an oddly specific one, but they're reading way too much into it. 
> 
> But I'll admit, I am wondering why 971 was picked as a number, since the 1939 was clearly intentional. That's the one detail that gives me a slight pause.


Why isn't it just a hint at an upcoming Snyder project? That seems much more likely.

----------


## Caivu

> Why isn't it just a hint at an upcoming Snyder project? That seems much more likely.


Could be, Williams has at least two "secret projects" he's working on, and both look horror-related. It's the 971 that's throwing me. The two could both be clues, but unrelated to each other, I guess.

----------


## darkseidpwns

Between this and Batman being meta, Bleeding Cool should change its name to reaching cool. Snyder is too busy to launch Batwoman projects and I dont see Tynion or Bennet going anywhere.

----------


## rev516

> Between this and Batman being meta, Bleeding Cool should change its name to reaching cool. Snyder is too busy to launch Batwoman projects and I dont see Tynion or Bennet going anywhere.


Agreed and that's big facts. Bleeding Cool is clickbait at times.

----------


## Caivu

By Mark Pexton:

1af304cd-1018-4336-ac4a-cc0851858da4.jpg

By Hon-Bun Leung:

Screenshot_20170720-182135.jpg

Some awesome SDCC cosplay by darthlexii:

Screenshot_20170723-191928.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Ian Menezes:

Screenshot_20170730-160701.jpg

By Marcelo di Chiara:

7e04c3b3-4567-48af-90bd-038b08ca2e80.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Probably should've done this last week, but whatever. For anyone unfamiliar with the work of Renato Arlem, the artist for issue #6, here's some examples of his work:

Screenshot_20170731-015304.jpg

Screenshot_20170731-015341.jpg

Screenshot_20170731-015542.jpg

I can see why they picked him over Barrows for this. Like Epting, his style is quite precise, and given what this issue will likely be about, that sounds like a plus.

----------


## Caivu

Some pieces by John Yandall:

Screenshot_20170731-095848.jpg

7b1e5f1e-8a0f-45e8-af3f-4e797f827331.jpg

4a88735a-c03b-4126-95a9-aeec8ddbb1a2.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Sarah Jones:

IMG_20170729_115220.jpg

By Shaun Butler:

Screenshot_20170731-195225.jpg

A tattoo conversion by Kat James of Purple Rose Tattoo:

Screenshot_20170731-142731.jpg

----------


## Caivu

There's an interview with Marguerite Bennett in this huge SDCC recap, starting 51 minutes in.

----------


## millernumber1

> There's an interview with Marguerite Bennett in this huge SDCC recap, starting 51 minutes in.


What's the skinny?  :Smile:

----------


## Caivu

> What's the skinny?


- Confirmation that Julia was supposed to report on Kate but didn't.
- The reason, or at least a big one, that Batman doesn't fully trust Kate (and part of why Julia is there) is because he didn't have a direct hand in forming her. Julia is the "thread" that ties the two of them together.
- More news about Bette will be in 'Tec, but it's uncertain if she'll actually appear (I found this a bit strange, since it conflicts with stuff Tynion has said). They're looking for the right spot to introduce that news. 
- Alice will be part of the next arc, at least in terms of where she's been.
- Kate will eventually return home, but "home might not be where people are guessing."
- Confirmation that Kate's rogue's gallery is being more solidified, with both new and old characters.

Bennett had to be very tight-lipped about a lot of the specifics regarding questions about Renee, Maggie, Jacob, and what "Plan B" is.

----------


## Red obin

What is Julia up to in Kates book now, I liked Julia but I am not reading batwoman.

----------


## Caivu

> What is Julia up to in Kates book now, I liked Julia but I am not reading batwoman.


She's essentially Kate's Alfred, running all the behind-the-scenes stuff on their missions, just like she did as Penny-Two. She's also a mole for Batman and reporting to him on Kate's activities. Kate seems to suspect this, and Julia seems to be having second thoughts about it. 

There have also been a few hints that they are attracted to each other.

----------


## millernumber1

> - Confirmation that Julia was supposed to report on Kate but didn't.
> - The reason, or at least a big one, that Batman doesn't fully trust Kate (and part of why Julia is there) is because he didn't have a direct hand in forming her. Julia is the "thread" that ties the two of them together.
> - More news about Bette will be in 'Tec, but it's uncertain if she'll actually appear (I found this a bit strange, since it conflicts with stuff Tynion has said). They're looking for the right spot to introduce that news. 
> - Alice will be part of the next arc, at least in terms of where she's been.
> - Kate will eventually return home, but "home might not be where people are guessing."
> - Confirmation that Kate's rogue's gallery is being more solidified, with both new and old characters.
> 
> Bennett had to be very tight-lipped about a lot of the specifics regarding questions about Renee, Maggie, Jacob, and what "Plan B" is.


Ah, blast. I desperately want Bette to show up. C'mon, Bennett! Where Alice has been...sounds like another "Bette says hello from West Point." I hate off panel land so much.

----------


## Caivu

> Ah, blast. I desperately want Bette to show up. C'mon, Bennett! Where Alice has been...sounds like another "Bette says hello from West Point." I hate off panel land so much.


She did mention that she wasn't entirely sure if she'd actually appear, so it's not a definite no, at least. But it's odd because just a few months ago it _did_ sound definite, just in the opposite direction.

----------


## millernumber1

> She did mention that she wasn't entirely sure if she'd actually appear, so it's not a definite no, at least. But it's odd because just a few months ago it _did_ sound definite, just in the opposite direction.


The fact that it's not a straightforward "yes" is what frustrates me so much.

----------


## Oberon

> - Confirmation that Julia was supposed to report on Kate but didn't.
> - The reason, or at least a big one, that Batman doesn't fully trust Kate (and part of why Julia is there) is because he didn't have a direct hand in forming her. Julia is the "thread" that ties the two of them together.
> - More news about Bette will be in 'Tec, but it's uncertain if she'll actually appear (I found this a bit strange, since it conflicts with stuff Tynion has said). They're looking for the right spot to introduce that news. 
> - Alice will be part of the next arc, at least in terms of where she's been.
> - Kate will eventually return home, but "home might not be where people are guessing."
> - Confirmation that Kate's rogue's gallery is being more solidified, with both new and old characters.
> 
> Bennett had to be very tight-lipped about a lot of the specifics regarding questions about Renee, Maggie, Jacob, and what "Plan B" is.


I live with whatever we get. I'm not going to drop Batwoman just because Bette never appears anymore. I like Kate.  I think I can like Julia too.

I am excited for Alice' return.

----------


## Oberon

> She did mention that she wasn't entirely sure if she'd actually appear, so it's not a definite no, at least. But it's odd because just a few months ago it _did_ sound definite, just in the opposite direction.


Despite the small, and ... pretty whiny Bette's-the-best crowd, we have to admit that there are shinier and newer toys that more fans are interested in. I'm into Bette because I am a continuity n__i and feel that maybe everything in Batman's canon, really did happen.

----------


## Oberon

> The fact that it's not a straightforward "yes" is what frustrates me so much.


My guess would be its editorial. Although Williams, Tynion, et al want to use the character (to varying degrees) maybe the Board wants the focus elsewhere.

----------


## Caivu

> My guess would be its editorial. Although Williams, Tynion, et al want to use the character (to varying degrees) maybe the Board wants the focus elsewhere.


This is what I'm thinking too, since the shift from "Bette is appearing in Batwoman" to "Bette _might_ be appearing in Detective" seems relatively abrupt. But then again, almost all the info about this series has been frustratingly fun to try and suss out before it's been revealed.

----------


## Caivu

It'd be remiss not to mark National Girlfriend Day here, so...

Screenshot_20170801-135103.jpg

Screenshot_20170801-160427.jpg

Screenshot_20170801-134254.jpg

----------


## Caivu

And:

Screenshot_20170801-160543.jpg

Screenshot_20170801-160327.jpg

Violet Paige is still in the "maybe" or "unknown" column, unfortunately. There's also Rachele, but since she hasn't been mentioned in close to 30 issues, she was likely a fling.

----------


## Caivu

By Edward Pun:

IMG_20170801_210148.jpg

By Iolanda Zanfardino:

Screenshot_20170801-140025.jpg

By Paul Maybury:

Screenshot_20170731-230429.jpg

----------


## RedBird

In light of the rhato arc with Batwomans guest appearance

Heres Kate and Jason [X]

----------


## Caivu

> In light of the rhato arc with Batwomans guest appearance
> 
> Heres Kate and Jason [X]


Looks a little like a Blade Runner-style anime or something. I'd watch it.

----------


## Caivu

Edit: Never mind, that panel was probably for a different title.

----------


## Caivu

Some pieces by Ricardo Sales:

Screenshot_20170802-170753.jpg

Screenshot_20170802-170713.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Eddy Barrows's and Eber Ferreira's original cover art for Batwoman #6 is up for sale, if you've got $2500:

http://www.comicartfans.com/galleryp...?piece=1411944

----------


## Caivu

A couple pieces by waytoocatty on Tumblr:

cce0c8da-2f62-4add-8c59-e404f5653256.jpg

e3927a8b-79e7-4640-80d9-ea7c3b70372d.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Final version of one of the earlier Ricardo Sales pieces:

Screenshot_20170803-030842.jpg

----------


## Caivu

A SFW screenshot from Justice League XXX:

IMG_20170803_144600.jpg

I _still_ find the ridiculously high production value of this so bizarre.

----------


## Caivu

By Megan Cassidy:

Screenshot_20170803-180830.jpg

By Dean Trippe:

IMG_20170804_031614.jpg

----------


## Moriarty

> A SFW screenshot from Justice League XXX:
> 
> IMG_20170803_144600.jpg
> 
> I _still_ find the ridiculously high production value of this so bizarre.


its weird but several of those films do have high production value.  some of the costumes are very comic accurate too.

----------


## Caivu

> its weird but several of those films do have high production value.  some of the costumes are very comic accurate too.


Yeah, and the thing is they could totally get away with not going that extra mile. It's impressive.

----------


## Caivu

Well, as is usially the case with such things (that is, creating new Latin phrases), the Latin used for the Kane family motto is apparently not exactly correct:

Screenshot_20170805-001936.jpg

It does still make a bit of sense as given, but yeah, if this is correct then it's not quite as impactful as it could be.

----------


## Caivu

The finished Dean Trippe piece from the previous page:

IMG_20170805_093415.jpg

Sketch cover by Jim O'Riley, done for a cancer charity:

IMG_20170804_145931.jpg

By IG user vladspium:

Screenshot_20170804-191323.jpg

----------


## millernumber1

> By IG user vladspium:
> 
> Screenshot_20170804-191323.jpg


This one has a really nice sense of motion and drama.

----------


## Caivu

> This one has a really nice sense of motion and drama.


It does, but her arm looking like it's growing out of her neck is a bit of a flaw.

----------


## Caivu

Sketch cover by Jeff Batista:

Screenshot_20170805-214708.jpg

Emma Kubert and a sketch cover she did:

Screenshot_20170805-214813.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Edward Canning:

Screenshot_20170807-123918.jpg

By Dzaky Alkaff:

Screenshot_20170807-124030.jpg

----------


## darkseidpwns

Does Emma Kubert have any relation to the Kubert brothers and Katie Kubert?

----------


## Caivu

> Does Emma Kubert have any relation to the Kubert brothers and Katie Kubert?


Maybe...? I dunno.

----------


## millernumber1

> Maybe...? I dunno.


Daughter of one of the Kubert brothers, apparently: https://www.behance.net/emmakubert

----------


## Caivu

First look at Dexter Soy's Batwoman, from RHatO:

Screenshot_20170808-092353.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

Cool! I love Soy's art

----------


## Punisher007

> its weird but several of those films do have high production value.  some of the costumes are very comic accurate too.


The Wonder Woman one that they made a few years back also had surprisingly high production values.  And the costume in that looked far better/more accurate than the one from that godawful NBC pilot.

----------


## Caivu

More WIP from Fernando Blanco:

IMG_20170809_160128.jpg

This is gonna be good.

----------


## Assam

So next week is the first flash forward issue. If I hear that future versions of other characters (Namely the 'Tec team) are in it, I'll check it out.

----------


## Caivu

> So next week is the first flash forward issue. If I hear that future versions of other characters (Namely the 'Tec team) are in it, I'll check it out.


It's not necessarily their future versions (or at least not far future), but it is supposed to tie heavily into 'Tec.

----------


## millernumber1

> It's not necessarily their future versions (or at least not far future), but it is supposed to tie heavily into 'Tec.


Well, it could be the scene with Steph that I still think happened before The Victim Syndicate  :Wink:  (I kid!)

----------


## Caivu

> Well, it could be the scene with Steph that I still think happened before The Victim Syndicate  (I kid!)


Right now, that's an equally valid option.

----------


## Caivu

By Maxine Frank:

Screenshot_20170809-201823.jpg

By Márcio Cerqueira:

Screenshot_20170810-092050.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Today marks the 1st anniversary of Detective Comics #938, which gave us this brilliant summation of Bruce and Kate's relationship:

fedffd3a-607a-461c-b83e-6fbe47c6f0fc.jpg
2f304e7d-00d2-43ad-86fe-bf6cdeef8926.jpg

There _is_ more nuance than this, but that's it in a nutshell.

----------


## The Whovian

Brilliant! It's one of the reasons why I love the book.

----------


## Caivu

> Brilliant! It's one of the reasons why I love the book.


Yep. Tynion writes all the cast at least mostly right, but the way he writes Kate is on another level. He really gets her in every aspect.

That's something I've noticed with all but two of her writers so far: there really seems to be a concerted effort to write her consistently across all her apprearances, no matter how small (apart from non-speaking ones, of course). There's been relatively little wavering since Elegy, and that's so rewarding to read.

I hope Lobdell and the Bensons continue that trend.

----------


## Caivu

By Rolands Kalniņš:

Screenshot_20170811-084056.jpg

----------


## Caivu

A new Amy Reeder sketch:

IMG_20170811_115213.jpg

----------


## Caivu

A couple new pieces by Tony Cruz:

Screenshot_20170808-210758.jpg

Screenshot_20170811-223529.jpg

----------


## Caivu

A new WIP piece by Chad Heinrich:

Screenshot_20170812-182107.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Here's a unique one: the J.G. Jones cover of Batwoman #1 made of various spices:

IMG_20170813_024618.jpg

This was made by Christiane Ertmer as part of the GISHWES (Greatest International Scavenger Hunt the World Has Ever Seen) and took 30 hours.

----------


## Caivu

Screenshot_20170813-105854.jpg

Issue #5 ranked in at #92 for July, compared to issue #4's 90th-place ranking in June. So the book has definitely stabilized at this point.

(As a side note, some other titles popped up double-digit places, namely RHaTO and Deathstroke, so that was unusual, and might indicate a bump across a lot of other titles)

----------


## millernumber1

> Screenshot_20170813-105854.jpg
> 
> Issue #5 ranked in at #92 for July, compared to issue #4's 90th-place ranking in June. So the book has definitely stabilized at this point.
> 
> (As a side note, some other titles popped up double-digit places, namely RHaTO and Deathstroke, so that was unusual, and might indicate a bump across a lot of other titles)


Are there new creative directions and stuff?

----------


## Caivu

> Are there new creative directions and stuff?


They both started new arcs last month, but I wouldn't have  thought that alone would cause such an increase. Deathstroke went up from 104th place in June to 91st in July, and RHatO went from 101st to 85th.

----------


## millernumber1

> They both started new arcs last month, but I wouldn't have  thought that alone would cause such an increase. Deathstroke went up from 104th place in June to 91st in July, and RHatO went from 101st to 85th.


What was the shift in units sold, though? That could just be a sagging lower tier comics market.

----------


## Caivu

> What was the shift in units sold, though? That could just be a sagging lower tier comics market.


Won't know until tomorrow, but I wouldn't expect a drastic shift in the grand total, since it's still for a summer month. 

Looking at just those two compared to June, they could've each jumped 1-2k.

----------


## Caivu

Sketch cover by April Grady-Reyna, both before and after coloring:

Screenshot_20170813-121444.jpg

Screenshot_20170813-232822.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Issue #5: 24,843

Screenshot_20170814-101017.jpg

Higher $ ranking than in June, and a smaller percentage drop from June to July than from May to June.

----------


## darkseidpwns

Its trajectory is similar to Superman and its not critically acclaimed either. Horrible, HORRIBLE decision by Bennet and Tynion to use Boreyawna and its inhabitants. Should've gone with the Scarecrow arc. I hope we can get to Alice before this book is scrapped. If they dump the Boreyawna plot altogether I'll be very pleased, its economical that way.

----------


## Aahz

> Attachment 53011
> 
> Issue #5 ranked in at #92 for July, compared to issue #4's 90th-place ranking in June. So the book has definitely stabilized at this point.
> 
> (As a side note, some other titles popped up double-digit places, namely RHaTO and Deathstroke, so that was unusual, and might indicate a bump across a lot of other titles)


Red Hood went ~1000 issues up and Deathstroke just 200, that looks more like a lot of other titles droped.

----------


## Caivu

> Its trajectory is similar to Superman and its not critically acclaimed either. Horrible, HORRIBLE decision by Bennet and Tynion to use Boreyawna and its inhabitants. Should've gone with the Scarecrow arc. I hope we can get to Alice before this book is scrapped. If they dump the Boreyawna plot altogether I'll be very pleased, its economical that way.


Dude, I'm really kinda sick of hearing you do nothing but badmouth stuff. Why are you even reading it still if you hate it so much?
And no, Coryana was not a horrible decision. If you think it's boring, that's on you.




> Red Hood went ~1000 issues up and Deathstroke just 200, that looks more like a lot of other titles droped.


Okay...?

----------


## darkseidpwns

Because I want the book to be good and I want to support it. Kate had plenty of momentum going for her leading in to her book, all of which was squandered. I'm not here appease your opinions so I dont care what you think.

----------


## Caivu

> Because I want the book to be good and I want to support it. Kate had plenty of momentum going for her leading in to her book, all of which was squandered. I'm not here appease your opinions so I dont care what you think.


It already is good, man. Could it be better? Of course it could. "Could be better" =/= "bad".

----------


## millernumber1

> Its trajectory is similar to Superman and its not critically acclaimed either. Horrible, HORRIBLE decision by Bennet and Tynion to use Boreyawna and its inhabitants. Should've gone with the Scarecrow arc. I hope we can get to Alice before this book is scrapped. If they dump the Boreyawna plot altogether I'll be very pleased, its economical that way.


While I completely agree with you that the Island plot is really boring, there's no way that Bennett is dropping it. Especially since all the SDCC interviews I read indicated that the things I actually care about (Alice, Bette, etc) are almost certainly going to be off-screen. I'm excited about Kate interacting with the Colony some more, since that's connected to Jake, but...yeah. I'm hopeful that this book surprises me, but am not really expecting it at this point.




> Red Hood went ~1000 issues up and Deathstroke just 200, that looks more like a lot of other titles droped.


Thanks! I was worried that the lower end of the comics pool was getting drained a bit, and while I'm glad that Deathstroke isn't dropping currently, it sounds like that's what's happening.




> Dude, I'm really kinda sick of hearing you do nothing but badmouth stuff. Why are you even reading it still if you hate it so much?
> And no, Coryana was not a horrible decision. If you think it's boring, that's on you.


I don't think darkseidpwns really just badmouths stuff. I've been on the other side of this argument with them, so I know it's frustrating, but I disagree that the boringness is on them or myself. Both of us are positively disposed towards Kate, both of us wanted this book to be great, and both of us think it's pretty generic and disappointing because it's not tapping the richness of Kate's stories that desperately beg to be told about Bette, Alice, Jake, and how Kate deals with them. Is that a counterfactual criticism? Yes, there is an element of that - but that doesn't mean that the actual stuff we're getting is compelling. The Drowned weren't connected to the past, and I, at least, found it pretty compelling - because 1) the story kept the cast we cared about (Jake, Bette) involved, and 2) it was done in a way that wasn't generic. The kind of petty, dull rivalries and past "betrayals" that Bennett and Tynion pumped out are nowhere close to the kind of atmosphere or sympathy that Williams and Blackman created in their first three volumes.




> It already is good, man. Could it be better? Of course it could. "Could be better" =/= "bad".


I'm really curious - how is this book actually better than the Andreyko run, if we discount the vampire plot (which was really disgusting, so I don't want to mitigate how bad that was). The weird plot that went nowhere with her cousin who was a secret spider-burglar - why is he so boring to you, but the criminals of the Island are so interesting? Because, to me, what Bennett's doing is exactly why I hated what Andreyko did - focusing on brand new and really dull characters who have a hitherto unknown connection to Kate (cousin, lover, rival, etc) in really dull and generic plots.

----------


## darkseidpwns

I found the Nocturna arc to be funny in a Schumacher Batman and Robin esque manner, Nocturna's date with the rich guy was straight up hilarious, this isn't even that. I'm just hoping that the crashing sales would compel Bennet to focus on the story that matters and drop the unnecessary fluff.

----------


## Caivu

> I'm really curious - how is this book actually better than the Andreyko run, if we discount the vampire plot (which was really disgusting, so I don't want to mitigate how bad that was). The weird plot that went nowhere with her cousin who was a secret spider-burglar - why is he so boring to you, but the criminals of the Island are so interesting? Because, to me, what Bennett's doing is exactly why I hated what Andreyko did - focusing on brand new and really dull characters who have a hitherto unknown connection to Kate (cousin, lover, rival, etc) in really dull and generic plots.


I don't think the warlords were supposed to be the most interesting. Knife is interesting because she's a twisted reflection of Kate and has motives that are both complex and striaghtforward. Elder and Younger are interesting due to the mystery around them and by the fact that what we _do_ know about them is weird and quirky. Safiyah also has that "enigmatic" thing going for her.

There were certain similarities with Wolf Spider (that is, he was a newly-introduced character who already knew Kate previously), but what makes that different is that in the in-story chronology, he doesn't have any conflict with Batwoman until she comes after him. And he has _no_ conflict with Kate herself. In contrast, Knife disliked Kate almost from the moment they first met (which spiraled into outright hatred), and Safiyah was betrayed or otherwise hurt by Kate somehow, long before she became Batwoman. There's a history of animosity between the characters there where there wasn't with Wolf Spider; the fact that this history is new doesn't really matter that much. The point is that it's there.

Apart from all that, Andreyko did not have a good handle of Kate's character, to put it mildly. I'm going to quote what my friend ProgmanX had to say about this, because I really can't put it any better:




> Believe it or not, everything that went wrong can be traced back to one extremely specific change that Andreyko made when taking over the Batwoman book. And I’m not talking about the corporate mandate that Kate and Mags couldn’t get married because heroes can’t be too happy. 
> 
> But that didn’t help.
> 
> Andreyko made the very conscious choice to retcon “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” out of Kate’s backstory, as he didn’t want the book to be ‘political’, and, in his opinion (which is confusing af since he’s an openly gay man so what???) DADT, since it had been repealed back in 2011, was far too dated to work.
> 
> Of course, Kate Kane as a character doesn’t work without that core, since Andreyko I guess missed the memo that the DADT backstory was intentionally dated when it was published in 2009/2010 (in which there was already strong congressional support in repealing DADT so it was only a matter of time), because Greg Rucka wanted Batwoman to serve as an eternal reminder of just how homophobic the United States was in this specific era, so that it wouldn’t be forgotten. And how an individual voluntarily erasing their identity so that they would be allowed to protect their country was seen as progressive by the general public for a long time…which is also not-so-subtly historically linked to her judaism. 
> 
> That’s still one of the biggest ‘points’ of who Kate Kane is, and even more so why she is what she is. She’s not a gay superhero. 
> ...


Bennett and Tynion, on the other hand, have demonstrated that they both understand who Kate Kane is on a deep level. That high level of consistency of character across all but two of her writers, is (for me at least) one of the big draws of Batwoman.

----------


## rev516

http://www.craveonline.com/entertain...iew-batwoman-6

Damn Kate took an L

Disgraced the Bat Symbol, huge L mate

----------


## Caivu

> http://www.craveonline.com/entertain...iew-batwoman-6
> 
> Damn Kate took an L
> 
> Disgraced the Bat Symbol, huge L mate


We don't even know what it involves...

Plus, it seems she's trying to rectify things.

----------


## rev516

I know that. She just did some things, presumably very bad things, while wearing the symbol and 'dragging it into the darkness' with her. 

Wonder what she did though and how Bruce died

----------


## Assam

So the preview pretty much confirmed that this is just one of many "POTENTIAL FUTURES" of the DCU, and not actually anything being lead up to. Probably for the best that way.

----------


## Assam

https://twitter.com/JamesTheFourth/s...86220966789122

Yeah, Tim is definitely Batman in this messed up future.

----------


## millernumber1

> I don't think the warlords were supposed to be the most interesting. Knife is interesting because she's a twisted reflection of Kate and has motives that are both complex and striaghtforward. Elder and Younger are interesting due to the mystery around them and by the fact that what we _do_ know about them is weird and quirky. Safiyah also has that "enigmatic" thing going for her.
> 
> There were certain similarities with Wolf Spider (that is, he was a newly-introduced character who already knew Kate previously), but what makes that different is that in the in-story chronology, he doesn't have any conflict with Batwoman until she comes after him. And he has _no_ conflict with Kate herself. In contrast, Knife disliked Kate almost from the moment they first met (which spiraled into outright hatred), and Safiyah was betrayed or otherwise hurt by Kate somehow, long before she became Batwoman. There's a history of animosity between the characters there where there wasn't with Wolf Spider; the fact that this history is new doesn't really matter that much. The point is that it's there.
> 
> Apart from all that, Andreyko did not have a good handle of Kate's character, to put it mildly. I'm going to quote what my friend ProgmanX had to say about this, because I really can't put it any better:
> 
> 
> 
> Bennett and Tynion, on the other hand, have demonstrated that they both understand who Kate Kane is on a deep level. That high level of consistency of character across all but two of her writers, is (for me at least) one of the big draws of Batwoman.


Fair argument. I will grant that Knife is marginally more interesting than Wolf Spider, but only marginally, and fundamentally for the same reasons.

----------


## millernumber1

What I'm really curious about, though, is will the future of Pax Batmana continue in Batwoman as well as in Detective?

----------


## Caivu

> So the preview pretty much confirmed that this is just one of many "POTENTIAL FUTURES" of the DCU, and not actually anything being lead up to. Probably for the best that way.


I agree it's probably a potential future, but what did you see that made it virtually confirmed? Was it just the extreme state of things (Julia and Bruce dead, etc.)?




> What I'm really curious about, though, is will the future of Pax Batmana continue in Batwoman as well as in Detective?


I think it will, or at least I think a large part of both stories will involve preventing it somehow.

Here's a rough idea that I have based on the preview (it's vastly different from what I thought was going to happen prior to this):

-Tim returns.
- His time in captivity has hardened him and made him more extreme in his personality. Less forgiving, that sort of thing. Or at least the beginnings of it are seen.
- Kate sides with Tim, at least in regards to multidimensional level threats like Oz.
- This causes an eventual rift between Kate and Bruce. Kate leaves the team.
- Bruce dies, as Gotham Girl said he would.
-Tim becomes Batman, at first spurred on by Kate. This is the failure she refers to in issue #6: not reigning him in.

That's the framework for how things get so bad. If the story involves this bad future being averted, I have no idea how that could come about.

----------


## millernumber1

> I think it will, or at least I think a large part of both stories will involve preventing it somehow.
> 
> Here's a rough idea that I have based on the preview (it's vastly different from what I thought was going to happen prior to this):
> 
> -Tim returns.
> - His time in captivity has hardened him and made him more extreme in his personality. Less forgiving, that sort of thing. Or at least the beginnings of it are seen.
> - Kate sides with Tim, at least in regards to multidimensional level threats like Oz.
> - This causes an eventual rift between Kate and Bruce. Kate leaves the team.
> - Bruce dies, as Gotham Girl said he would.
> ...


I hope it does. Unless they killed Steph. Then NOPE.  :Wink: 

I think what you say makes sense, but I don't think, based on what Tynion's said, that Tim's going to be Super Dark Hardcore Cold Red Robin Man.  :Smile:  I also have difficulty seeing Tim becoming that person unless Bruce or Steph died.

----------


## darkseidpwns

Tynion loves the post Identity Crisis and New 52 Tim. His writing speaks louder than his words. After my conversation with Assam I decided to go back and skim through the General appearences and holy crap that Tim is absolutely a different character already.

----------


## Assam

> Tynion loves the post Identity Crisis and New 52 Tim. His writing speaks louder than his words. After my conversation with Assam I decided to go back and skim through the General appearences and holy crap that Tim is absolutely a different character already.


Definitely. The decision to basically make him Bruce Jr. completely changed him well before the Nu52 did. I personally feel that he regained some of himself in the Red Robin solo, but it was still an expansion of the Bruce jr. version.

----------


## Caivu

> I think what you say makes sense, but I don't think, based on what Tynion's said, that Tim's going to be Super Dark Hardcore Cold Red Robin Man.  I also have difficulty seeing Tim becoming that person unless Bruce or Steph died.


Well... we already know that Bruce is dead (or at least is presumed dead). And based on what Kate and Jason say, it sounds like Tim!Batman has just made Gotham worse.

----------


## TheCape

To be honest, Bruce, Dick and Tim are more similar that many people realized. Something that both Dick and Tim has to deal many times.

----------


## Caivu

Here's something worth noting: In both Epting and now Arlem's art of Colony!Kate holding that huge rifle, she's exercising extremely poor trigger discipline and gun handling by holding it pointed at the ceiling. I wondered about that with Epting, since he's drawn enough guns and stuff to know better than that. But now with Arlem, who has also drawn a lot of military stuff, she still does the same thing. So it's not just a goof. And Bennett does so much research in general that I don't think this is a slip-up on her part, either. This is intentional. For a soldier like Kate to be holding a gun so poorly... something's up there, and I believe that's a hint. Jason being there just adds to it.

----------


## Oberon

> While I completely agree with you that the Island plot is really boring, there's no way that Bennett is dropping it. Especially since all the SDCC interviews I read indicated that the things I actually care about (Alice, Bette, etc) are almost certainly going to be off-screen. I'm excited about Kate interacting with the Colony some more, since that's connected to Jake, but...yeah. I'm hopeful that this book surprises me, but am not really expecting it at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! I was worried that the lower end of the comics pool was getting drained a bit, and while I'm glad that Deathstroke isn't dropping currently, it sounds like that's what's happening.
> 
> <<< Oberonificant Snippity Do Dah >>>
> 
> I'm really curious - how is this book actually better than the Andreyko run, if we discount the vampire plot (which was really disgusting, so I don't want to mitigate how bad that was). The weird plot that went nowhere with her cousin who was a secret spider-burglar - why is he so boring to you, but the criminals of the Island are so interesting? Because, to me, what Bennett's doing is exactly why I hated what Andreyko did - focusing on brand new and really dull characters who have a hitherto unknown connection to Kate (cousin, lover, rival, etc) in really dull and generic plots.


You sum it up pretty well, but having caught up with most of the recent issues, I would say Batwoman's new title isn't boring so much to me, but distracting, as I wait month, after month, for some sign of life from Bette.

I know I'm a whiny broken record. .. .  . ummm  CD . . . err, "download".... but I think they really want to break the connection between Bette/Firebird and Dick/Nightwing.  I just have an intuition on this - that I would so happily love to see being WRONG!

But that is what it seems like to me.  And I don't think it is Tynion, necessarily, but editorial, because the renaming of Bette (won't say it, I won't!) was the first part of that.

Without the connection to silver age Dick/etc, we lose any of that synergy and connection. I feel Morrison did a great thing by viewing Bat's entire history as true on some level (drug induced hallucinations for some of that silver age stuff).  But Bette was no false-dream for me.

----------


## Oberon

I like your summation between Knife and other characters. I am not 'un-enjoying' Batwoman. Just hoping there will be something that resonates more for me in the future.

----------


## Caivu

Batwoman vs Supergirl, by Amy Reeder:

IMG_20170815_145221.jpg

----------


## Oberon

"Back off, Kara . . . ummm, but wait till we 're closer to the ground?"

----------


## Aioros22

> https://twitter.com/JamesTheFourth/s...86220966789122
> 
> Yeah, Tim is definitely Batman in this messed up future.


https://twitter.com/JamesTheFourth/s...91541487669248

Totally.

----------


## Caivu

I like how utterly inaccurate this description is:

Screenshot_20170816-172816.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Since it's significant, it should be mentioned here that today's issue marked Kate's 52nd solo, self-titled issue.

----------


## Caivu

BGBOP_Cv16.jpg

BATGIRL AND THE BIRDS OF PREY #16

Written by JULIE BENSON and SHAWNA BENSON
Art by ROGE ANTONIO
Cover by YANICK PAQUETTE
Variant cover by KAMOME SHIRAHAMA

“Manslaughter” part two! As an illness that affects half of Gotham City’s population grows, Batgirl, Black Canary and Huntress pick up some unexpected help from Catwoman, Ivy and Harley, as well as some welcome backup from Batwoman, Spoiler, Gotham Girl and Wonder Woman. But as the Birds of Prey grow closer to discovering the source of the outbreak, what they find won’t end the plague and might only make it grow faster.

On sale NOVEMBER 8 • 32 pg, FC, $3.99 US • RATED T

----------


## millernumber1

> BGBOP_Cv16.jpg
> 
> BATGIRL AND THE BIRDS OF PREY #16
> 
> Written by JULIE BENSON and SHAWNA BENSON
> Art by ROGE ANTONIO
> Cover by YANICK PAQUETTE
> Variant cover by KAMOME SHIRAHAMA
> 
> ...


Question - who do you think Kate's going to be concerned about, per the interview with the Bensons? I'm guessing Jacob, but that would be odd, since he's off doing who knows what with the Colony.

----------


## Caivu

> Question - who do you think Kate's going to be concerned about, per the interview with the Bensons? I'm guessing Jacob, but that would be odd, since he's off doing who knows what with the Colony.


Well, Bruce is her cousin, and Luke's become a friend of hers. And JPV and Clayface are fellow teammates. So, a bunch of choices.

----------


## Caivu

By Cottony Hotchkiss:

Screenshot_20170817-130439.jpg

By Carlo Pagulayan:

HyhHkG3c_1508171605451spadd.jpg

----------


## millernumber1

> Well, Bruce is her cousin, and Luke's become a friend of hers. And JPV and Clayface are fellow teammates. So, a bunch of choices.


Ah, good point.

----------


## Caivu

> Ah, good point.


I do have a weird suspicion it'll be some totally new character, which would make absolutely no sense, but I trust the Bensons not to do that.

----------


## Caivu

Sketch cover by Nathan Donnell:

IMG_20170817_013817.jpg

An unusual interpretation by Otto Schmidt:

IMG_20170818_100507.jpg

By Chad Heinrich:

IMG_20170818_213531.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Brett Wampler:

Screenshot_20170819-140649.jpg

Sketch cover by Jason Meents:

Screenshot_20170819-140722.jpg

----------


## millernumber1

> I do have a weird suspicion it'll be some totally new character, which would make absolutely no sense, but I trust the Bensons not to do that.


I mean, they sort of did that with Gus, but I think that made more sense than a old character. I think Kate's point of concern will be someone we already know.

----------


## Godlike13

Nevermind.

----------


## Caivu

> Nevermind.


Well now I'm curious/confused...

----------


## Godlike13

> Well now I'm curious/confused...


I was wondering if it could be Bette, but then remembered it only affects men.

----------


## Caivu

I did some figuring in light of the upcoming BBoP and RHatO arcs, and it's likely that from now until the end of the year (4 months), Kate is going to be in at least 17 issues. That's kinda nuts.

----------


## millernumber1

> I did some figuring in light of the upcoming BBoP and RHatO arcs, and it's likely that from now until the end of the year (4 months), Kate is going to be in at least 17 issues. That's kinda nuts.


Well, that's twice a month in Tec and once a month in Batwoman, so that's 12 right there. A huge number, but not that surprising if you consider what double shipping does. The others are 2 for Red Hood and 3 for Birds of Prey, right?

----------


## Caivu

> Well, that's twice a month in Tec and once a month in Batwoman, so that's 12 right there. A huge number, but not that surprising if you consider what double shipping does. The others are 2 for Red Hood and 3 for Birds of Prey, right?


4 for Red Hood. I'm assuming she won't be in the two Spoiler issues.

----------


## Caivu

IMG_20170821_160433.jpg

BATWOMAN #9

Written by MARGUERITE BENNETT
Art and cover by FERNANDO BLANCO
Variant cover by MICHAEL CHO

Retailers: This issue will ship with two covers. Please see the order form for details. Includes a code for a free digital download of this issue.

“Fear and Loathing” part three! Drugged by the Scarecrow’s fear toxin and trapped in an unrelenting desert, Batwoman must find her way free of her fears as she avoids capture by the Many Hands of Death and her father’s agent, Colony Prime.

On sale NOVEMBER 15 • 32 pg, FC, $3.99 US

----------


## millernumber1

> 4 for Red Hood. I'm assuming she won't be in the two Spoiler issues.


We shall see!

----------


## Caivu

> We shall see!


It's actually looking like you were right about only 2 RHatO issues. The 'Tec team apparently captures the Outlaws in the second issue of that arc.

----------


## Assam

> We shall see!


Right now, the only 'Tec member confirmed to be in the Spoiler issues is Cass. Not a 'Tec member, but Harper will be there too. Wouldn't be surprised if Kate showed up.

----------


## Caivu

> Right now, the only 'Tec member confirmed to be in the Spoiler issues is Cass. Not a 'Tec member, but Harper will be there too. Wouldn't be surprised if Kate showed up.


Since I think Spoiler will rejoin the team in #964, a reunion scene would make sense there.

----------


## Caivu

By Giovanni Valletta:

IMG_20170822_082416.jpg

----------


## Caivu

More WIP from Fernando Blanco:

IMG_20170823_090053.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Kristen Gudsnuk:

Screenshot_20170823-014957.jpg

By Josileudo Lima:

Screenshot_20170823-120116.jpg

By Rodrigo Parreira:

Screenshot_20170823-015238.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Robbi Rodriguez:

IMG_20170823_180233.jpg

I saw this image referred to as the variant cover for issue #7,  but can't find a confirmation.

By Diego Riselli:

Screenshot_20170823-180155.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @thepressa on IG:

Screenshot_20170824-005913.jpg

By Rodrigo Catraca:

Screenshot_20170824-155548.jpg

By Ryan Winn:

IMG_20170823_214844.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Gary L. Shipman:

Screenshot_20170825-010114.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

> By Ryan Winn:
> 
> IMG_20170823_214844.jpg


I love this one

----------


## Caivu

> I love this one


Green and red color schemes do seem fairly popular in her art lately.

----------


## Caivu

Well, well. Looks like someone's out of his coma:

Screenshot_20170825-171016.jpg

Director Bones will be back in Batman: The Merciless.

----------


## The Whovian

Huh

10 char

----------


## Caivu

By TeMeL (Thekla Maria Barck):

IMG_20170826_134828.jpg

By Michael Magtanong:

IMG_20170826_143928.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Dan Asfour:

Screenshot_20170826-152235.jpg

A couple sketches by Deirdre Noonan:

IMG_20170826_213451.jpg

Screenshot_20170826-182221.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Lee Bermejo:

IMG_20170827_175620.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

> By Lee Bermejo:
> 
> IMG_20170827_175620.jpg


Bermejo always does good work. I like it!

----------


## Caivu

> Bermejo always does good work. I like it!


The way he did the shading reminds me of Nicola Scott's Batwoman pieces.

----------


## Caivu

I finally figured out what type of motorcycle that Kate was (probably) riding in issue #1 (the autopilot one):

Screenshot_20170824-160555.jpg

The faring and headlights look a lot like a Yamaha R6 of some type to me.

Yamaha_YZF_R6_L_1.jpg

09f33d70560ea373e29f656d0f19a581--r-motorcycle-yamaha-motorcycles.jpg

There are still some differences in the windscreen, the brake lights, and the tail, however.

----------


## Caivu

By David Frankum:

Screenshot_20170828-120118.jpg

By Diana Greenhalgh:

Screenshot_20170828-103606.jpg

----------


## Caivu

More WIP from Blanco:

IMG_20170829_103608.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Drawn by Scott Hepburn, colors by @wtigris:

b1177fd6-e80a-4adc-8eb6-8ee1b5c20220.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Kate and Nocturna quite rightly made this list:

http://www.cbr.com/couples-dc-wants-you-to-forget/

Should've at _least_ been in the top half, IMO. And been more explicit about calling Nocturna a rapist.

----------


## Caivu

I'm not sure whether this is just a maquette or an action figure, but Casting and Customs (aka Victor Aguilar) made a 3D version of the Batwoman from Bad Blood:

Screenshot_20170827-021824.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Jon Wesley Huff:

Screenshot_20170831-194834.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Arthur Hesli colored the Rodrigo Catraca piece from a while ago:

Screenshot_20170831-231942.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Here's the official poster for Justice League XXX:

IMG_20170901_150710.jpg

----------


## byrd156

> Here's the official poster for Justice League XXX:
> 
> IMG_20170901_150710.jpg


Was not expecting to see anything Axel Braun related posted in here.

----------


## Caivu

> Was not expecting to see anything Axel Braun related posted in here.


It's been revealed for a few months now that Batwoman would be appearing in this. The costume is awesome:

IMG_20170901_162312.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Frank A. Kadar:

68746016-4fac-459f-b9d3-5fdf8f3d614e.jpg

By Chris Askham:

Screenshot_20170901-200550.jpg

By Justin Coffee, with paints by Michelle Coffee:

35c66783-d11c-4bc9-9ddb-048c49711644.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Yet more WIP from Fernando Blanco. Looks like an earlier scene:

IMG_20170902_110111.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Gene Ha:

Screenshot_20170903-003903.jpg

By Luciano Vecchio:

Screenshot_20170903-003748.jpg

By Yanick Paquette:

IMG_20170902_184418.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

> By Gene Ha:
> 
> Screenshot_20170903-003903.jpg
> 
> By Luciano Vecchio:
> 
> Screenshot_20170903-003748.jpg
> 
> By Yanick Paquette:
> ...


WOW. Those are fantastic, especially the one by Vecchio

----------


## Caivu

> WOW. Those are fantastic, especially the one by Vecchio


Yep. I know I've seen his work somewhere else, but I can't remember where.

----------


## Caivu

Kate is currently at #43 on this Top 100 DC Heroes poll:

http://m.ranker.com/crowdranked-list...l&l=525567&g=1

It's still open for voting.

Screenshot_20170903-170742.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

Just voted up for her. There's also this poll ranking the top Batman characters:
http://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-li...l&l=518713&g=3

Kate, Dick, Damian, Jason, Tim and Steph are all way too low. Not sure who is voting in these polls, but it's crazy.

----------


## Caivu

> Just voted up for her. There's also this poll ranking the top Batman characters:
> http://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-li...l&l=518713&g=3
> 
> Kate, Dick, Damian, Jason, Tim and Steph are all way too low. Not sure who is voting in these polls, but it's crazy.


Thanks. I'll send that other link out, too.

That poll in particular is ridiculous. There are so many repeats.

----------


## The Whovian

> Thanks. I'll send that other link out, too.
> 
> That poll in particular is ridiculous. There are so many repeats.


I know, and I couldn't believe how low some of the characters were ranked.  :Confused:

----------


## Caivu

By Giselle Lagace:

IMG_20170902_184446.jpg

By Juan Ferreyra:

IMG_20170902_150531.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Dan Asfour:

Screenshot_20170901-200642.jpg

Screenshot_20170903-003921.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Fabian Lelay:

IMG_20170905_200849.jpg

----------


## Caivu

More Fernando Blanco WIP:

IMG_20170906_121157.jpg

Why is it not the 20th yet?

----------


## adrikito

> More Fernando Blanco WIP:
> 
> IMG_20170906_121157.jpg
> 
> Why is it not the 20th yet?


Scary horse

----------


## Caivu

There's a company called Brothers Figure that makes high-quality custom minifigure accessories, and this is one of their upcoming products:

Screenshot_20170908-094317.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Suit redesign by Chad Heinrich:

Screenshot_20170905-222115.jpg

----------


## Outlaw22

New to Batwoman comics, my first issue was #6 which was a futuristic story-line, excited about the scarecrow arc, looks to be scary  :Big Grin:

----------


## Caivu

> New to Batwoman comics, my first issue was #6 which was a futuristic story-line, excited about the scarecrow arc, looks to be scary


Welcome aboard! You sure picked a doozy of an issue to start with, though.
And yeah, next arc looks all around great. Scary, brutal, trippy...

----------


## The Whovian

> New to Batwoman comics, my first issue was #6 which was a futuristic story-line, excited about the scarecrow arc, looks to be scary


Welcome! Kate is a great character. I would highly recommend you try her very first story that has been collected in one book called Batwoman: Elegy by Rucka and JH Williams. It's so amazing!

----------


## Caivu

By Fabian Lelay, after Yanick Paquette's cover to BBoP #16:

IMG_20170909_014652.jpg

----------


## Oberon

> Welcome! Kate is a great character. I would highly recommend you try her very first story that has been collected in one book called Batwoman: Elegy by Rucka and JH Williams. It's so amazing!


I strongly echo this sentiment. Also my first taste.  Still.hooked.YEAH!

----------


## Red obin

> Suit redesign by Chad Heinrich:
> 
> Screenshot_20170905-222115.jpg


Looks a bit like future batwoman mixed with stephanie brown with a few other elements mixed in.

----------


## Caivu

> Looks a bit like future batwoman mixed with stephanie brown with a few other elements mixed in.


Or just her Sideshow figure:

Screenshot_20170909-130549.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Found this, which I guess is from a trading card series:

044803d0-0cfa-40b2-a7d4-18c5dd2c14cc.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Bad news. Batwoman was not in the top 100 comics for August. Don't know the actual number yet.

Oddly, both RHatO and Deathstroke, which were both in the same sort of area, had much smaller placement drops from July to August:

Screenshot_20170910-110708.jpg

Screenshot_20170910-110738.jpg

----------


## Red obin

> Or just her Sideshow figure:
> 
> Screenshot_20170909-130549.jpg


ok her sideshow figure Looks a bit like future batwoman mixed with stephanie brown with a few other elements mixed in!

its actually quite a cool figure.

I'm surprised sales dropped since #6 pulled in Tec readers such as myself due to the tie in. Also single issues are normally more accessible. It most likely lost people who said they were just going to get the first arc.

----------


## Caivu

> I'm surprised sales dropped since #6 pulled in Tec readers such as myself due to the tie in. Also single issues are normally more accessible. It most likely lost people who said they were just going to get the first arc.


That's possible, I guess. 
I've been wrong about what was going to bring more people in twice so far, it seems. Maybe the new Scarecrow arc will change that? Hopefully.

----------


## Aahz

> I'm surprised sales dropped since #6 pulled in Tec readers such as myself due to the tie in. Also single issues are normally more accessible. It most likely lost people who said they were just going to get the first arc.


IIRC #6 was the the August issue.

----------


## Red obin

> IIRC #6 was the the August issue.


Yeah, I was talking about August sales and the decline for batwoman.

----------


## Aahz

> Yeah, I was talking about August sales and the decline for batwoman.


Sorry I misread what you wrote..

----------


## Aahz

But imo you usually have to wait for the absolute numbers to see if a title dropped, at what spot a title ends up in the Top 100 is verydepended on what else was published in the same month, in August you have for exapmle lots of marvel Generation one shots, which shifts of course a lot of titles down by a few spots.

----------


## Aahz

Ok the numbers are out. http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomi...7/2017-08.html

Batwoman is on 103 with 22,362 sold issues, which places it a little bit below Batgirl (at 101 and with 22,593 issues).

----------


## Caivu

> Ok the numbers are out. http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomi...7/2017-08.html
> 
> Batwoman is on 103 with 22,362 sold issues, which places it a little bit below Batgirl (at 101 and with 22,593 issues).


That's kind of embarrassing, frankly. I'm kinda pissed about this. Not just because it's too good a series to be doing this poorly, but I've been promoting preordering for this and other titles on social media (where I have a significant, though not enormous, audience), and it doesn't seem to have had an effect. Or worse, it _has._

However, it _is_ still about 7k higher than Blue Beetle was at the same point. BB has become my gauge for what DC is willing to tolerate sales-wise, so as long as it keeps a higher pace than that, okay.

----------


## Caivu

By Daniel Warren Johnson:

IMG_20170911_172614.jpg

----------


## Oberon

> Found this, which I guess is from a trading card series:
> 
> Attachment 54540


Thank you for the picture that includes Flamebird.  Will have to tide me over till they (never) bring her back.

----------


## millernumber1

> Thank you for the picture that includes Flamebird.  Will have to tide me over till they (never) bring her back.


That's a gorgeous image! I miss these two working together!

----------


## Caivu

Well, Kate wasn't in RHatO #14 as the solicit made her out to be... but _was_ technically in Metal #2. So I guess it evens out.

----------


## Caivu

December's solicits have apparently leaked, and:

IMG_-yt9z7.jpg

I know to take these with a grain of salt, and even the actual, official solicits can differ from the printed issue, but man. Working under the assumption for now that this is genuine, it raises some questions.

Did someone mistake Geneva for Brussels? Because _that's_ where Gabi was killed, not Geneva. And it's hard to picture what Kate would find more horrific a memory or loss than that if the Geneva part is supposed to be correct.

On a more positive note, I like how the theme of time, and specifically the progression of it, is still being continued.

----------


## millernumber1

> December's solicits have apparently leaked, and:
> 
> IMG_-yt9z7.jpg
> 
> I know to take these with a grain of salt, and even the actual, official solicits can differ from the printed issue, but man. Working under the assumption for now that this is genuine, it raises some questions.
> 
> Did someone mistake Geneva for Brussels? Because _that's_ where Gabi was killed, not Geneva. And it's hard to picture what Kate would find more horrific a memory or loss than that if the Geneva part is supposed to be correct.
> 
> On a more positive note, I like how the theme of time, and specifically the progression of it, is still being continued.


Those potential solicits are such a tease.  :Smile:   But if they are actually going to deal with the death of her mother and kidnapping of her sister, I AM SO THERE FOR IT.  :Smile:   Who's the artist listed for this?

----------


## Caivu

> Who's the artist listed for this?


Still Fernando Blanco.

----------


## Caivu

Speaking of, here's more of his WIP:

Screenshot_20170913-150038.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Decided to double-check on this Geneva thing, and it does have precedence. Kate spent her 10th birthday there with Beth and Gabi:

IMG_utvq1d.jpg

So, problem solved for now. Serves me right for doubting.

----------


## Caivu

More Blanco WIP:

Screenshot_20170914-122743.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Two color versions of and earlier Chad Heinrich piece.

By Thomas Mason:

Screenshot_20170914-140118.jpg

By Shelby W. Robertson:

Screenshot_20170913-195501.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Red Hood and the Outlaws #15 variant cover by Guillem March:

Attachment 54737

----------


## Caivu

Batwoman #10 cover by Dan Panosian:

IMG_20170915_193626.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Volume 2 is scheduled for June 5, 2018.

IMG_20170916_003752.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Marcio Takara:

IMG_20170915_193547.jpg

----------


## Oberon

that is awesome

----------


## Assam

> that is awesome


of course it is. It's Takara.  :Smile:

----------


## Caivu

By Jahnoy Lindsay:

1f7a4861-ad74-4dea-a280-4b0d46fc5a9b.jpg

By Brent Peeples:

Screenshot_20170916-191537.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By John D. Yandall:

Screenshot_20170917-030537.jpg

By Angie Spice:

Screenshot_20170917-102833.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Looks like Scott Godlewski will be doing the art for the third arc.

----------


## Korath

Who is he ?

----------


## Caivu

> Who is he ?


He's the artist on Copperhead, The Dark and Bloody, and did some issues of Superman recently. Probably other stuff, too.

Copperhead0101-85a99.jpg

DRKBLDY_1_4.jpg

SM_26_4.jpg

I think whether the art for this arc works or not will depend on the colorist. Get Patricia Mulvihill or someone similar to make it look like TDaB, and it'll be great. Otherwise, I dunno...

----------


## Caivu

There's some good, understated character stuff in today's issue. The first arc was, in part, about Kate essentially getting over her nerves about tackling TMAoD and getting her past with Safiyah out of her head enough to do her job. And that seems to have held. 

Apart from the montage of her taking out three operatives in as many weeks, we see Kate's thought process during an emergency. She's disoriented and confused, sure. But she's also thinking and keeping calm even under stress (no doubt reassured by the fact that she's beaten this desert before). That's to be expected of her anyway, but this is specifically in regard to this mission of hers. Pretty cool.

----------


## Caivu

By Thiago Motta:

Screenshot_20170920-012651.jpg

----------


## Outlaw22

Hate the buzzcut look, wish she looked like she did in the animated movie.

----------


## Caivu

> Hate the buzzcut look, wish she looked like she did in the animated movie.


Too bad.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Caivu

Batwoman #8 variant cover by Michael Cho:

IMG_-64w3fs.jpg

----------


## Caivu

WIP by Jacob Edgar:

IMG_20170921_205706.jpg

----------


## Man-Thing

I'm catching up on last month's singles but it's all good stuff. The flashforward issue was... interesting.

----------


## Caivu

> I'm catching up on last month's singles but it's all good stuff. The flashforward issue was... interesting.


I was so relieved that Colony!Kate hadn't turned evil or gone insane or something.

----------


## Man-Thing

I am getting a little tired, however, of distopian near-futures where brother eye controls everything and a bat militia roams the streets. They trot that one out like every other year or so it seems.

----------


## Caivu

Here's the first (?) official image of the Bombshells Pop:

Screenshot_20170922-180542.jpg

----------


## Caivu

The finished Jacob Edgar piece:

aa7ee530-926d-4197-abe8-a2c19fcf69d5.jpg

By Sara Richard:

Screenshot_20170923-004655.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Giorgio Viola:

IMG_20170923_130002.jpg

By Ingo Römling:

IMG_20170923_141630.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Juan Navarro:

Screenshot_20170924-031233.jpg

By Edwin Cruz:

Screenshot_20170924-031445.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Nicolas Rinear:

Screenshot_20170924-031314.jpg

By John D. Yandall:

Screenshot_20170924-031528.jpg

By Alberto Pacheco:

Screenshot_20170924-031418.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Thought Bubble UK commission by Fernando Blanco:

IMG_20170925_180846.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Rafael Albuquerque:

IMG_20170924_163852.jpg

----------


## Caivu

I tweeted a bit the other day about how Kate's trek through the Sahara in issue #7 (and specifically the effects she experiences) are all plausible, which I thought was pretty neat. I'm only screencapping it because I don't want to retype it.

Screenshot_20170926-172635.jpg

Screenshot_20170926-172654.jpg

Kind of a minor batch of details, but they add so much. Come to think of it, that can be said for a lot of things in Kate's history.

----------


## Caivu

"The Batwoman Who Laughs" by Chad Heinrich:

IMG_20170926_202656.jpg

(I wish more people remembered/knew that Kate's a guitarist.)

----------


## Caivu

More Fernando Blanco WIP:

IMG_20170927_110355.jpg

(Not 100% certain it's from Batwoman, but it's likely)

----------


## Caivu

By Jeremiah Lambert:

Screenshot_20170927-214108.jpg

By Bill Tucci:

Screenshot_20170927-214031.jpg

By Pierre-Henri Gaffuri:

Screenshot_20170927-213907.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Scott Godlewski just posted on Instagram that he's on three issues of Batwoman. So either that arc is only three issues and the seventh issue of this multi-arc story is a standalone issue (or part 2 of "Pax Batmana"), or a different artist is doing one of the issues in that arc.

----------


## millernumber1

> Scott Godlewski just posted on Instagram that he's on three issues of Batwoman. So either that arc is only three issues and the seventh issue of this multi-arc story is a standalone issue (or part 2 of "Pax Batmana"), or a different artist is doing one of the issues in that arc.


Very interesting. What else has he done?

----------


## Caivu

> Very interesting. What else has he done?


He's the artist for Copperhead (a space western) and did a few recent issues of Superman. There's also a series called The Dark and Bloody that he did that tonally seems closest to what Batwoman should be.

I'm kinda torn on his work. I like it and think it works well for Copperhead since it can be stylized and kinda rough-looking, but I don't know how that'll translate here. But he can definitely do moody shadow stuff as well.

Screenshot_20170928-120510.jpg

Screenshot_20170928-120038.jpg

Screenshot_20170928-115951.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Here's a Batman he did, which gives us the closest idea so far of what his work here might look like:

Screenshot_20170928-115804.jpg

Screenshot_20170928-115747.jpg

----------


## millernumber1

Interesting. Looks a bit David Messina-like, but hopefully a bit more consistent.

I'm really curious about how artists are assigned to books, and what causes a book to get as many art shifts as Kate's is going through.

----------


## Caivu

> I'm really curious about how artists are assigned to books, and what causes a book to get as many art shifts as Kate's is going through.


I think here it might just be due to scheduling, for the most part. And so far it's at least been on an arc-by-arc basis, so it's not _that_ jarring.

And Blanco has kinda maybe hinted that he'll be back for a while:

Screenshot_20170928-122735.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Found some more trading card stuff, this time hand-drawn sketch cards from Cryptozoic's Batman: The Legend line.

By Pablo Priano:

Screenshot_20170928-171140.jpg

By Neil Camera:

Screenshot_20170928-171256.jpg

----------


## Caivu

And then there's this official card from the same line, that botches Kate's origin/motives (it's not hard to get right, people!)  :Mad: 

d24f27fb-dee1-40f6-9cf1-a9dd9c29c8aa.jpg

back.jpg

Art by Iban Coello and Rainer Petter.

----------


## Caivu

By Andrew Ponce:

86088042-cf0f-4130-adf0-6d73670ee171.jpg

By Michael Dooney:

c6615a6c-33be-46e0-826c-7aab1acb38a6.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Patricia Wheatley:

IMG_20170929_002457.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Well, Justice League XXX apparently released early, and a friend of mine is livetweeting it. It sounds like they got Kate's characterization pretty much correct, which is wild.

----------


## Aioros22

> "The Batwoman Who Laughs" by Chad Heinrich:
> 
> Attachment 55222
> 
> (I wish more people remembered/knew that Kate's a guitarist.)


Snif, where is my Red Hood Who kills? I only have the Boy Who Crows. 

Kate, Jay, Damian and Dick should make a band.

----------


## Aioros22

> Well, Justice League XXX apparently released early, and a friend of mine is livetweeting it. It sounds like they got Kate's characterization pretty much correct, which is wild.


I`m guessing that is a non rated T for viewers?

----------


## Caivu

> I`m guessing that is a non rated T for viewers?


It's a porn parody, so... no.

----------


## Caivu

Just read Nightwing: The New Order #2, and apparently Kate is the leader of the Justice League in that universe, which is neat.

I like that the regime in that has a bit of nuance to it in the sense that it's not villainous, and I'm hoping that extends to Kate as well. I'm really kinda hoping she's some kind of Schindler-esque figure, somehow.

----------


## The Whovian

Hey fellow Kate fans, Sideshow is giving away a Batwoman framed print. All you have to do is enter the drawing. I know it's a long shot, but hey, you never know
https://www.sideshowtoy.com/contest/...rint-giveaway/

----------


## Caivu

Cool, very cool!

----------


## Caivu

Another card. And it _also_ gets things wrong...

IMG_-h9y2e1.jpg

IMG_1rhmpb.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Michael Cho cover WIP:

IMG_20170929_162935.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Francesca Vincent:

Screenshot_20170930-102418.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Alvaro Martínez WIP:

Screenshot_20171001-085300.jpg

----------


## Korath

All of the yes ! I can't wait 'Tec to return to the team instead of Tim !

----------


## Caivu

Eaglemoss's line of DC statues is getting updated and re-released, including Batwoman's:

https://www.tfaw.com/Merchandise/Pro...woman___554110

OCT172396.jpg

It's scheduled for December 27th.

----------


## Caivu

By Chad Heinrich and Thomas Mason:

Screenshot_20171001-085145.jpg

By Elsa Charretier and Alex Sollazzo:

IMG_20171001_123932.jpg

----------


## Assam

> All of the yes ! I can't wait 'Tec to return to the team instead of Tim !


You know there's a chance he'll be _on_ the team after this arc, right?  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Caivu

More Fernando Blanco WIP:

IMG_20171002_104946.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Ren McKinzie:

Screenshot_20171001-224605.jpg

By Ana Carrera:

Screenshot_20171002-104547.jpg

By Xulia Vicente:

IMG_20171002_132247.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

> By Ren McKinzie:
> 
> Screenshot_20171001-224605.jpg
> 
> By Xulia Vicente:
> 
> IMG_20171002_132247.jpg


These two are really cool

----------


## Caivu

By Crystal Inscho:

Screenshot_20171003-085355.jpg

By Kitty Lewis:

Screenshot_20171003-083916.jpg

By Marco Marcel Kosdei:

Screenshot_20171003-083733.jpg

----------


## Caivu

The tagline makes it sound like Kate and Simon are going to have a drug-fueled brawl in the desert and I am so on board for that.

IMG_20171003_140909.jpg

----------


## CPSparkles

Bat Family by Afterlife

----------


## Caivu

> Bat Family by Afterlife


Man, Bruce and Damian have pretty severe cases of forward head carry...  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## CPSparkles

> Man, Bruce and Damian have pretty severe cases of forward head carry...


I know right. That's what happens when you brood too much  :Smile:  At least Damian's smiling unlike Bruce

----------


## CPSparkles

Batwoman Kate Kane

This is so pretty

----------


## CPSparkles

Kate by AfterLife

----------


## Caivu

> Batwoman Kate Kane
> 
> This is so pretty


These should be variant covers.

----------


## Caivu

From BBoP #15, next week:

IMG_20171004_152802.jpg

----------


## Caivu

All right, now that Selina's answer is out, what do we think Kate's reaction will be?

I have to think it'll be roughly about how she feels about Clayface, just a bit more negative since Selina's not as clearly reformed and is in a closer relationship than just an ally. But she has also seen Selina help save the world, so she knows she's not all bad.

BBoP #15 will be the first tell of this, I think.

----------


## Caivu

No one? Oh well. Art dump!

By Stephanie Hans:

Screenshot_20171004-094134.jpg

By Dan Asfour:

Screenshot_20171004-004343.jpg

By Mateo Cortez:

Screenshot_20171005-005505.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Early Cully Hamner art for Batman and the Signal #1:

bmsig_1_01.jpg

Will Kate _finally_ get to talk to Damian?

----------


## Caivu

Promo video for the Sideshow figure:

----------


## The Whovian

That's really cool. I like everything about it except the two strands of hair coming over the left side of her mask. Depending on the cost, I may get it.

----------


## Caivu

I know for a fact I won't be able to afford it for a long while, even if it's on the lower end price-wise.  :Frown:

----------


## Caivu

This was kinda neat:

Screenshot_20171004-140823.jpg

----------


## Caivu

A couple more by Stephanie Hans:

Screenshot_20171005-213117.jpg

IMG_20171006_110529.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Because I like anniversaries: exactly a year ago today,  Batwoman's current series was announced.

----------


## Caivu

I already posted this over in the RHatO #15 thread, but there's an early, spoilerish review for it out:

https://popcultureuncovered.com/2017...he-outlaws-15/

I of course haven't read it yet and am missing context, but from the sounds of it Kate and the rest of the 'Tec team act like total jerks. I've been trying to wrangle out some way that this makes sense and isn't just Lobdell writing the team badly, but haven't found one.

Is this secretly a ploy of Bizarro's to get the Outlaws to infiltrate Belle Reve? If so, why have such a complex plan, and why bother writing Kate as a complete hothead?

Are Kate and Jason secretly working together on a similar plan, since the next issue's solicit mentions Colony tech? That would explain why Kate's acting so off, but then she'd be lying to her team, and that creates another problem. Maybe it's just the reviewer's own bias, I dunno.

This is mostly just to talk things out for myself, and the actual issue with proper context could (and probably will) make things much clearer, but I really don't like the sound of this. I was really looking forward to this issue too, but it seems like it could be the worst possible version of how I imagined things going down.

Fingers crossed, I guess. Open to hearing any other ideas.

----------


## Caivu

More Fernando Blanco WIP:

IMG_20171007_100738.jpg

Guessing this is from issue #9.

----------


## Caivu

And a new page, revealed at NYCC:

IMG_-b9x2yk.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

Whoa. Weird

----------


## Caivu

> Whoa. Weird


Right? I'm wondering if her bloody hands are a reference to the fox thing or more literal, and she's bloody because she ends up beating Colony Prime to death.

Also, her suit's fixed.

----------


## Caivu

Sideshow figure giveaway!

https://www.sideshowtoy.com/contest/.../#contest-form

----------


## The Whovian

> Sideshow figure giveaway!
> 
> https://www.sideshowtoy.com/contest/.../#contest-form


Psst. Hey Caivu,

http://community.comicbookresources....ciation/page94

----------


## Caivu

> Psst. Hey Caivu,
> 
> http://community.comicbookresources....ciation/page94


Already entered!

----------


## The Whovian

> Already entered!


Cool, cool  :Smile:

----------


## Caivu

By Alfred Cabillon:

Screenshot_20171005-151901.jpg

By Rafael Gumboc:

Screenshot_20171003-112832.jpg

By Marcelo Pegini:

Screenshot_20171005-005437.jpg

----------


## Caivu

It's rather late for this, but it deserves to be mentioned that today is International Lesbian Day. I'm kinda embarrassed I didn't know sooner.

----------


## Caivu

Well, the "good" news is that the series dropped less than 1k units this time...

Screenshot_20171009-120008.jpg

----------


## Assam

It came up on the Steph thread and I became curious: How many of you Kate fans are familiar with Pre-Crisis and/or Lewis Era Nocturna?

----------


## Caivu

> It came up on the Steph thread and I became curious: How many of you Kate fans are familiar with Pre-Crisis and/or Lewis Era Nocturna?


I'm not, and I don't really care to be.

----------


## Assam

> I'm not, and I don't really care to be.


I get why, but she really is completely different in both. Especially as a RobinJay fan, I hate what was done to her character, basically making her unusable.

----------


## Caivu

> I get why, but she really is completely different in both. Especially as a RobinJay fan, I hate what was done to her character, basically making her unusable.


Sell me on this older version.

----------


## Caivu

There's a new Batwoman Imaginext figure on the way (and a bunch of others, too), as seen at their NYCC booth.

Screenshot_20171009-183704.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Ben Templesmith:

Screenshot_20171010-001241.jpg

By Maria Laura Sanapo:

Screenshot_20171010-001054.jpg

By Allief Edowari:

Screenshot_20171010-001027.jpg

----------


## Caivu

It's National Tuxedo Day!

80d57b9f-434d-4da7-beab-9ddca777e5aa.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Batgirl and the Birds of Prey #16 variant cover by Kamome Shirahama:

IMG_20171010_175144.jpg

----------


## Caivu

More Blanco WIP:

IMG_20171011_102636.jpg

IMG_20171009_140332.jpg

----------


## millernumber1

> More Blanco WIP:
> 
> IMG_20171011_102636.jpg
> 
> IMG_20171009_140332.jpg


Those are really nice! I'm really looking forward to this art!

----------


## Caivu

> Those are really nice! I'm really looking forward to this art!


I really hope he's back after Godlewski.

----------


## Caivu

For National Coming Out Day, here's Kate's, which doubles as her second moment of heroism:

f95dae95-6273-49df-9dba-ac6a37afdf60.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Guillem March WIP for a 'Tec variant:

IMG_20171012_133248.jpg

----------


## Caivu

This was a small moment, and in context it was kinda rushed, but I appreciated the Bensons including this:

IMG_16w0zb.jpg

Before Rebirth, Kate had worked alongside Barbara in some capacity more than almost any other character, so it's fitting that Babs was the one to convince her. A pretty good (if subtle) nod.

Now all I want is a reference to World's Finest, now that Wonder Woman's here.

----------


## Caivu

By Alvaro Martinez:

Screenshot_20171012-020635.jpg

By Alessio Monaco:

Screenshot_20171005-124542.jpg

By Marcio Takara:

IMG_20171007_100808.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Another card, and this one's mostly correct!

IMG_20171011_150457.jpg

IMG_20171011_150501.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Dan Butler:

Screenshot_20171015-090725.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Cian Tormey:

IMG_20171015_221441.jpg

----------


## Caivu

I'm hearing from the January solicits that K. Perkins might be on for an issue. I hope it's not a permanent change, since I both like Bennett's story and Perkins's Kate is... not good, based on the last Holiday Special. And it's not like Perkins is the writer to boost the series, if for some ridiculous reason DC is deciding to change the writer now.

----------


## Caivu

batwoman11.jpg

BATWOMAN #11 

Written by K. Perkins, art by Scott Godlewski, cover by Bill Sienkiewicz, variant cover by Michael Cho.

"Pygsty." It's the New Year, and Professor Pyg needs new Dollotrons for his latest artistic endeavor. As Batwoman tries to put her personal demons to bed, she must stop the madman from carving out his sick intentions.

32 pages, $3.99, in stores on Jan. 17.

----------


## Caivu

Also, this:

DETECTIVE COMICS #973 

Written by James Tynion IV, art by Joe Bennett, cover by Guillem March, variant cover by Rafael Albuquerque.

"Fall Of The Batmen" finale! With the team in disarray and facing their most powerful adversary yet, Batwoman must make a critical battlefield choice -- one with the power to shatter everything Batman has built! You'll be talking about this issue for years to come!

32 pages, $3.99, in stores on Jan. 24.

----------


## millernumber1

> I'm hearing from the January solicits that K. Perkins might be on for an issue. I hope it's not a permanent change, since I both like Bennett's story and Perkins's Kate is... not good, based on the last Holiday Special. And it's not like Perkins is the writer to boost the series, if for some ridiculous reason DC is deciding to change the writer now.





> Also, this:
> 
> DETECTIVE COMICS #973 
> 
> Written by James Tynion IV, art by Joe Bennett, cover by Guillem March, variant cover by Rafael Albuquerque.
> 
> "Fall Of The Batmen" finale! With the team in disarray and facing their most powerful adversary yet, Batwoman must make a critical battlefield choice -- one with the power to shatter everything Batman has built! You'll be talking about this issue for years to come!
> 
> 32 pages, $3.99, in stores on Jan. 24.


Interesting. I'm NOT a fan of Marvel-style "Nothing Will Be The Same Again." I'm reading Tec because I love the characters and really like Tynion's writing. This solicit actually makes me want to read it less (not that I'll drop the series - haha - wild horses couldn't make me drop it at this point).

Perkins...that's a very strange choice, in terms of having a fill in writer. Doesn't seem like a really necessary choice, unless Bennett's overwhelmed and they already had an inventory issue by Perkins in the can.

----------


## Caivu

> Interesting. I'm NOT a fan of Marvel-style "Nothing Will Be The Same Again." I'm reading Tec because I love the characters and really like Tynion's writing. This solicit actually makes me want to read it less (not that I'll drop the series - haha - wild horses couldn't make me drop it at this point).


The thing of it is, Kate's the kind of character who can have these sort of huge things happen with her at the epicenter or thereabouts, provided it's all handled well. And I think it has been and will be, based on what I expect Kate's going to do in a few issues.

By the way, here's the #973 cover:

WHOA.jpg




> Perkins...that's a very strange choice, in terms of having a fill in writer. Doesn't seem like a really necessary choice, unless Bennett's overwhelmed and they already had an inventory issue by Perkins in the can.


I don't think it's that sort of situation, since this issue is supposedly happening on New Year's, just like issue #10 will. I know Bennett's on a bunch of books and she loves Kate, so I'm guessing this is a temporary thing due to her workload. I'll ask her about it.

----------


## Caivu

Spot the difference: desert travel edition.

BM_33_1.jpg

IMG_-1v9a9u.jpg

----------


## Oberon

I guess I have to ask if Bette Kane - in any of her incarnations has such a card?

----------


## Caivu

> I guess I have to ask if Bette Kane - in any of her incarnations has such a card?


I know of at least two.

In other news, K. Perkins confirmed that her Batwoman issue is just a one-shot.

----------


## Oberon

I thought you might post them.   I can't (firewall) but I can put one in my avatar and have done so.   Long live Batwoman, no matter who is under the mask!

----------


## Caivu

> I thought you might post them.   I can't (firewall) but I can put one in my avatar and have done so.   Long live Batwoman, no matter who is under the mask!


I'll post them in Bette's thread later.

----------


## Caivu

WIP from Alvaro Martínez and Raúl Fernández. Looks like Kate vs Future!Tim:

Screenshot_20171017-121347.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

I would love to see this matchup!

----------


## Oberon

Thanks, sweets.  I know I'm a one trick pony on Bette.  Thanks for being gentle.

----------


## Assam

> I would love to see this matchup!


Why do I have a sneaking suspicion  the rest of the 'Tec team is gonna job to FutureTim?

----------


## Caivu

> Why do I have a sneaking suspicion  the rest of the 'Tec team is gonna job to FutureTim?


I'm expecting him to disable the rest of them somehow, so they won't interfere. Probably in Spoiler-esque fashion.

----------


## Assam

> I'm expecting him to disable the rest of them somehow, so they won't interfere. Probably in Spoiler-esque fashion.


We'll see. Hopefully if that is the case, the methods will at least be unique and not just "I'M HACKING YOUR SYSTEMS! YES, EVEN YOUR NON-EXISTENT ONES CASS!"

More than that though, since FutureTim seems to remember a version of Pre-FP continuity, I'd kind of love to see his reactions to the 4. 

"Oh my god, Jean-Paul, you're alive! Cass, you're so tiny! Clayface, you're not a villain?! Dear lord,  David, you don't even look like yourself!"

----------


## Caivu

More Blanco WIP:

IMG_20171017_150609.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Thalia Becerra:

Screenshot_20171016-224014.jpg

By Steven Pulawa:

Screenshot_20171017-020244.jpg

By Ivan Otero:

Screenshot_20171017-122116.jpg

----------


## Caivu

First look at Scott Godlewski's Batwoman. I like.

IMG_20171018_121117.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Some interesting developments in today's issue. 

There's a few small indications that Kate's personality was altered by her fear toxin exposure; Prime mentions it directly at one point, and the final scene has them both acting fairly manic after being redosed. That's sort of what I was hoping for, but it needs to progress to the point where Kate truly becomes compromised somehow,  maybe even to the point of being a Manchurian Candidate of sorts for Crane. There's too much pointing to Kate killing someone for that to go to waste.

Prime remains interesting, and even more so that there's another piece of foreshadowing about *spoilers:*
him being Kate's half-brother.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Caivu

John Paul Leon commission:

IMG_20171019_105242.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Batwoman #9 variant cover by Michael Cho:

IMG_tnmu9u.jpg

----------


## Caivu

More WIP, from Scott Godlewski and Terry Dodson, respectively:

IMG_20171019_151835.jpg

IMG_20171019_153804.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Kate in Nightwing: The New Order #3. Nice to see Trevor McCarthy drawing her again.

IMG_-1y8yvo.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Bu Amri Putradjaja:

Screenshot_20171020-022835.jpg

By Saneyah Q. James:

Screenshot_20171020-022706.jpg

By Ali Sasongko:

Screenshot_20171019-182253.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Well, posting in this thread is a bit like pulling teeth sometimes, but we finally got to 100 pages!

To celebrate, here's the Batwoman Sideshow Premium Art Print by Alex Pascenko:

IMG_20171006_001504.jpg

----------


## okiedokiewo

Caivu has got me interested in reading the Batwoman comics, but my library only has the New 52 ones on Hoopla, so I started there. I've read volume 1 and volume 2 so far and started on volume 3. I like them so far, but I've noticed they're a lot...darker than what I usually read.

----------


## TheCape

Congratulations for the 100 pages, hopefully you reach another 100.

----------


## Caivu

> Caivu has got me interested in reading the Batwoman comics, but my library only has the New 52 ones on Hoopla, so I started there. I've read volume 1 and volume 2 so far and started on volume 3. I like them so far, but I've noticed they're a lot...darker than what I usually read.


Yeah, that's one of the things that hooked me. Glad to hear that I helped get you reading it!  :Smile: 




> Congratulations for the 100 pages, hopefully you reach another 100.


Hopefully it happens a lot faster than three-and-a-half years this time.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Caivu

Marc Laming WIP. Not sure what it's for.

IMG_20171021_121006.jpg

IMG_20171021_170221.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Update: It's art for the current series.

Here's a couple more pieces:

IMG_20171021_175107.jpg

IMG_20171021_175049.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

> Caivu has got me interested in reading the Batwoman comics, but my library only has the New 52 ones on Hoopla, so I started there. I've read volume 1 and volume 2 so far and started on volume 3. I like them so far, but I've noticed they're a lot...darker than what I usually read.


Hey okie, have you read Batwoman: Elegy?

It's my favorite Batwoman story

----------


## okiedokiewo

> Hey okie, have you read Batwoman: Elegy?
> 
> It's my favorite Batwoman story


I've just read the vol. 1 and vol. 1 in the New 52 so far. I'll have to see if Hoopla has that. I think they may just have the New 52 series and then something that is just labeled "Batwoman by Greg Rucka and J.H. Williams."

Actually, skimming through that, that might be what you mean, since it says "Elegy, Part One." I have that checked out to read, too.

----------


## The Whovian

> I've just read the vol. 1 and vol. 1 in the New 52 so far. I'll have to see if Hoopla has that. I think they may just have the New 52 series and then something that is just labeled "Batwoman by Greg Rucka and J.H. Williams."
> 
> Actually, skimming through that, that might be what you mean, since it says "Elegy, Part One." I have that checked out to read, too.


YES! That is the one. It is pure magnificence!  :Big Grin:

----------


## millernumber1

> I've just read the vol. 1 and vol. 1 in the New 52 so far. I'll have to see if Hoopla has that. I think they may just have the New 52 series and then something that is just labeled "Batwoman by Greg Rucka and J.H. Williams."
> 
> Actually, skimming through that, that might be what you mean, since it says "Elegy, Part One." I have that checked out to read, too.


You should definitely read that collection, since it also includes a shorter arc called "Cutter" by Rucka that sets Kate in her new direction. It's not quite as powerful as Elegy (few things are), but it's definitely the equal of what Blackman and Williams did.

----------


## Caivu

More of Laming's WIP. He said on Twitter it's from issue #10.

IMG_20171022_171819.jpg

----------


## Oberon

Me too!  I have the deluxe collected in the library I work at and discovered it on the shelf.  I had heard about the new Batwoman, a year or several before but was not reading DC at the time.  So I checked it out and was converted forever.

While the story, art, etc was overall awesome and hooked me, the bonus was

finding an author who had room for Bette Kane in the mythos, and was willing to make her more credible.

----------


## Caivu

I ran across a slightly old interview about the BBoP Manslaughter arc that I missed at first. Batwoman and Catwoman are apparently going to fight:

IMG_9mou38.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Batgirl and the Birds of Prey #17 variant cover by Kamome Shirahama:

IMG_20171023_152050.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

That is very cool! The only small quibble I have with it is that Canary's hair looks silver and kind of anime-ish.

----------


## Caivu

Even more Marc Laming WIP:

IMG_20171023_162921.jpg

IMG_20171023_113722.jpg

IMG_20171023_113643.jpg

----------


## Caivu

I want to talk about it so much now but won't yet because of spoilers, but 'Tec #967 had so many great Kate things in it to unpack. Batwoman fans are blessed right now with her main writers, that's for sure. They get her to an almost scary degree.

----------


## Caivu

More WIP, from Godlewski amd Laming, respectively:

IMG_20171025_204650.jpg

IMG_20171025_192115.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Mario D'Arpino:

Screenshot_20171024-115956.jpg

----------


## Caivu

I stitched together some of Laming's WIP panels:

Laming.jpg

Pretty intriguing.

----------


## batnbreakfast

It really bothers me how Rebirth TEC made Kate's dad into a bad guy. Especially since the evil father/mum thing isn't exactly brandnew and does the Batfamily really need even more tragedy?

----------


## Caivu

> It really bothers me how Rebirth TEC made Kate's dad into a bad guy. Especially since the evil father/mum thing isn't exactly brandnew and does the Batfamily really need even more tragedy?


I don't agree that he's bad. He's definitely not evil. He took the Colony rogue because he recognized a legitimate threat was on American soil, and he and his soldiers could eliminate it. And the only reason he decided to risk innocent lives was because the Knights' rescue of Batman damaged the Colony's operations enough that they couldn't narrow down their suspect list.

----------


## Caivu

Fernando Blanco WIP:

IMG_20171028_155648.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

> Fernando Blanco WIP:
> 
> IMG_20171028_155648.jpg


The Mad Hatter making an appearance?

----------


## Caivu

> The Mad Hatter making an appearance?


Probably not. The hallucinations that Kate is seeing are based on Wonderland.

----------


## Caivu

By Mel Ford:

IMG_20171029_125857.jpg

----------


## Caivu

More Marc Laming WIP:

IMG_20171029_195322.jpg

Looks like Colony Prime survives issue #9.

----------


## Caivu

I figured out something pretty interesting. Remember how Kate recieved some training from the FBI? Well, up until right about now I figured that FBI training was a full four years, like a regular college, and that Kate only took maybe a semester of forensic science from them or something, after a lot of string-pulling.
But apparently FBI training only takes, like, 21 weeks. For everything. So it's entirely possible (and I'd say likely) that she has full FBI qualifications. Why not, as short as the training is?

----------


## Caivu

Laming and Godlewski WIP, respectively:

IMG_20171030_172018.jpg

IMG_20171030_211010.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Chaos... reigns.

IMG_20171030_221333.jpg

Marc Laming is generous with his WIP posts.

----------


## Caivu

This was cute:

Screenshot_20171031-153617.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Still more Marc Laming WIP. Appropriate for today, too.

IMG_20171031_204828.jpg

And some from Scott Godlewski, as well:

IMG_20171031_001001.jpg

----------


## Caivu

I wrote a rambly thing that hopefully expresses why the cafe scene in 'Tec #967 was so good:

https://batwomanandmotherpanic.tumbl...s-scene-ramble

----------


## TheCape

> This was cute:


Wow, that's awesome.

----------


## Oberon

I appreciate that you care for the character. Your observations are correct I think.  The scene reminds me also of Elegy where Kate more or less blows off Bette as well.

I would hazard a guess that you don't feel or think Bette's career actually started as the old Bat-girl, and for me this is a critical point I wish would be acknowledged, but as it is, it goes towards Kate's main point *if* this history is not/no longer true.

Still I like what you expressed. Still haven't got the issue yet...

----------


## Caivu

> Wow, that's awesome.


Yep. The fact that the kids had an _immediate_ expectation of a female counterpart to Batman is pretty heartwarming. 




> I would hazard a guess that you don't feel or think Bette's career actually started as the old Bat-girl, and for me this is a critical point I wish would be acknowledged, but as it is, it goes towards Kate's main point *if* this history is not/no longer true.


Bette's time as Bat-Girl is one of those things I think is gone for good. I'm pretty neutral about it.

----------


## Caivu

More Godlewski WIP. I think these might be flashbacks:

Screenshot_20171102-110704.jpg

Screenshot_20171102-130156.jpg

----------


## Oberon

Previously Caivu said: Bette's time as Bat-Girl is one of those things I think is gone for good. I'm pretty neutral about it. 

Hey, I don't want her to be a Bat girl again.  I am quite happy if she can be Flamebird.

I just don't believe her past should be un-acknowledged. I don't need it reminded to the reader every issue, but it should not be a red headed step child either.

When I posted the thoughts about Tomorrow Titans and how one of the stories showed Bette involved as a lover, to Tim, I forgot to ask this question (I didn't know)


   Did the character of Spoiler/Stephanie exist on page, when that story of Tomorrow Titans was published?     Without knowing much of this era . . .

how did we go from a story about Tim and Bette as involved

to this other blonde showing up and being involved?   

Without knowing Steph's history, she mostly seems like another Blonde, who is enthusiastic, not well trained (originally) and has +/- natural/unnatural attraction to a Robin.

I guess I prefer the original Blonde Bat-family member.

----------


## Aahz

Steph was created roughly a decade before the Titans Tomorrow, but she died  "War Games", around the same time when the Titans Tomorrow story started, which is very likely the reason they brought Bette in instead.

----------


## Caivu

By David Lothschultz:

Screenshot_20171102-110752.jpg

By Melissa Mosqueda:

63a4084d-3f8b-4de6-b229-72133cbbdc82.jpg

By Jane Nov:

Screenshot_20171101-183313.jpg

----------


## Caivu

First look at Godlewski's Professor Pyg:

Screenshot_20171103-001059.jpg

----------


## Oberon

Thanks for filling that in. I actually think many many characters are re-treads of previous characters, but I won't mention them now. From that encyclopedia I quoted from, the Spoiler entry indicates that she thought something was suspicious with her father and investigated, eventually costuming herself.

In the Silver Age, Betty is suspicious of her Aunt Kathy's night time activities and investigates, eventually becoming Bat-girl.

----------


## millernumber1

> Previously Caivu said: Bette's time as Bat-Girl is one of those things I think is gone for good. I'm pretty neutral about it. 
> 
> Hey, I don't want her to be a Bat girl again.  I am quite happy if she can be Flamebird.
> 
> I just don't believe her past should be un-acknowledged. I don't need it reminded to the reader every issue, but it should not be a red headed step child either.
> 
> When I posted the thoughts about Tomorrow Titans and how one of the stories showed Bette involved as a lover, to Tim, I forgot to ask this question (I didn't know)
> 
> 
> ...


Ahaha. I can't let that go, obviously. I love Bette, but Steph is my girl, and she may have some similarities (mostly in being romantically inclined towards a Robin and being constantly told she's not good enough), but she's very, very different. Steph became Spoiler out of a sense of guilt and attempt to put her father's evil activities right. She was originally intended as a one-shot character, but purely on the strength of her characterization, Chuck Dixon kept bringing her back until she became a significant character.

----------


## Aahz

> Thanks for filling that in. I actually think many many characters are re-treads of previous characters, but I won't mention them now. From that encyclopedia I quoted from, the Spoiler entry indicates that she thought something was suspicious with her father and investigated, eventually costuming herself.
> 
> In the Silver Age, Betty is suspicious of her Aunt Kathy's night time activities and investigates, eventually becoming Bat-girl.


Imo Betty is technically also re-tread of an older character ("Roberta the Girl Wonder").

----------


## Oberon

This is actually true and Roberta is the actual first girl to kiss Robin/Dick Grayson.

I think for this thread, it is worth talking about Bette's possible future in either BW or Detective. Some thought or heard that she was going to place in BW but then the page in Detective showed her showing there, though not conclusively as joining the team, in fact quite otherwise.

I guess they might as well run with a story that keeps her in Westpoint but brings in some intrigue and a possible crossover with Nightwing perhaps.

----------


## Caivu

By ScaryKrystal:

IMG_20171104_144057.jpg

----------


## Oberon

These don't seem to be Kate to me.

----------


## Caivu

> These don't seem to be Kate to me.


Why not? It is.

----------


## CPSparkles



----------


## Oberon

It seems to rough to be her. Artist's impressions/interpretation.  I don't hate it, it makes her look coarse.  Sorry. Just my opinion.

----------


## Caivu

> It seems to rough to be her. Artist's impressions/interpretation.  I don't hate it, it makes her look coarse.  Sorry. Just my opinion.


Rough in what way?

----------


## Caivu

By Stephanie Hans:

Screenshot_20171104-144808.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Admira Wijaya:

IMG_20171105_183432.jpg

----------


## Oberon

I prefer my second term; coarse.  Coarse is unrefined, to some degree.  She look more like a "from the bad streets" kind of street brawler.  She doesn't look like a somewhat priviledged daughter of a wealthy family, who went to the military etc.

Kate's look, to me, is more defined by her white pallor and somewhat odd clothing style. This drawing doesn't seem to be like her to me.  Just personal.

I hope you won't keep picking at it because there is no other fruit to be found.  I love Kate and like her in a more elegant stance.

----------


## Caivu

More Scott Godlewski WIP:

IMG_20171106_135013.jpg

----------


## Caivu

More Marc Laming WIP.

IMG_20171106_200606.jpg

Might be early in #10, since her arm isn't bandaged.

----------


## Caivu

More Marc Laming WIP:

IMG_20171107_112326.jpg

And a small bit of a script reveal from Scott Godlewski:

IMG_20171107_171622.jpg

And a partial enlargement:

Screenshot_20171107-173143.jpg

The important bit is that Julia gets captured by Pyg.

----------


## Caivu

I did some tweaking to the image, and this is what I ended up typing out from that page:

20171107_180210.jpg

----------


## Caivu

More Laming WIP:

IMG_20171107_195130.jpg

There are later panels showing that Kate leaves Crane's base apparently alone, so... that's a bit ominous.

----------


## Caivu

A trifecta! WIP from Blanco, Godlewski, and Laming:

IMG_20171108_103644.jpg

IMG_20171108_123735.jpg

IMG_20171108_125352.jpg

----------


## Aioros22

Gotta say, she`s going up in my interesting Bat related characters to read about. Been catching up her first run and I like the whole aesthetic.

----------


## Caivu

> Gotta say, she`s going up in my interesting Bat related characters to read about. Been catching up her first run and I like the whole aesthetic.


Always great to hear things like this!

----------


## millernumber1

Really liked Kate's confrontation with Bat-Tim in today's Tec. Her expression and dialogue was so very much her attitude.

----------


## Caivu

> Really liked Kate's confrontation with Bat-Tim in today's Tec. Her expression and dialogue was so very much her attitude.


Yes! And what Bat!Tim actually said to her was at least the third example in Rebirth of her antagonists really not understanding her well and failing at pulling off Breaking Speeches on her. They've all _sounded_ damning, but hold no weight because they're inaccurate. 

It's a good example of how well Tynion and Bennett understand her character, that they're able to give other characters perspectives on her that make sense from their POV, but are also not actually right.

----------


## Oberon

More or less, Kate, Batwoman, brought me back to the DC Universe as somewhat regular reader. I'd been away for nearly 30 years after they changed or gutted so many characters with COIEs, but first Elegy, then the new 52 got me to reading DC again. For the first nearly 2 years I read and collected Batwoman, Nightwing, Batwing, Batgirl and occasional others. I eventually dropped to just Batwoman and that was canceled. But I kept reading some DC, just not as regularly. 

I was overjoyed when Batwoman began appearing in Detective.

There is nothing else like her, anywhere in DC or Marvel. I suppose there are characters like her elsewhere in Independent comics.   In some ways, Marvel's Spiderwoman, Jessica Drew, gives off a similar vibe, though everything else is different pretty much not like Kate. It is hard for me to think of any other such well realized character, like her. Sure we have Wonder Woman but Kate is just so unique to me.

At any rate... I came for Batwoman, but stayed for Bette. So I want Kate's comic to be its own unique take on the Batman and Robin aesthetic. I think that was an important part of the first run of Batwoman and some of the Detective stories before that. Since everything about Kate, at that time was somewhat distorted or reverse/mirror take on Batman, the addition of Bette, as a very willing, but to Kate, very flawed would be crime fighter is also somewhat an inversion of the original (to me at least) take on Batman's relationship and partnership with the first Robin, Dick.

----------


## Caivu

> There is nothing else like her, anywhere in DC or Marvel. I suppose there are characters like her elsewhere in Independent comics.   In some ways, Marvel's Spiderwoman, Jessica Drew, gives off a similar vibe, though everything else is different pretty much not like Kate. It is hard for me to think of any other such well realized character, like her. Sure we have Wonder Woman but Kate is just so unique to me.


Well said. I can't think of any character quite like her either; certainly not in mainstream comics. There's a consistency to her personality and her history, that, while not completely perfect, is unlike anything else I've seen. It helps that she's never truly been rebooted, but most people who write her, even briefly, get even small details about her correct. It's so cool.

It's also why I get massively irritated when I see people reduce her to being just "the gay one" or "the female Batman". She's far too rich a character for that, and it's just ignorant to say otherwise. And frustrating since it can so easily be proven wrong.

----------


## Oberon

Yes!, Incredible YES.  "far too rich a character".                 

What I find is that I don't even think about her as being gay or the female Batman. I just see a great character and you're right, almost every writer 'gets her'.

(I know, she's really a Goddess"

----------


## Caivu

More Laming WIP:

IMG_20171109_190638.jpg

----------


## Caivu

And more Godlewski WIP:

IMG_20171109_125055.jpg

IMG_20171108_234412.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Goodreads is doing a giveaway of Volume 1!

https://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/s...?sf159925058=1

US residents only, ends November 21st.

----------


## Caivu

More Scott Godlewski WIP:

IMG_20171111_003334.jpg

----------


## Caivu

More from Marc Laming:

IMG_20171111_173842.jpg

IMG_20171111_203259.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Karl Slominski:

Screenshot_20171110-122235.jpg

By Koimalin Towers:

Screenshot_20171109-153509.jpg

----------


## Caivu

More Mark Laming WIP:

IMG_20171112_164502.jpg

----------


## Man-Thing

Been catching up on Batwoman and Tec. Do we have a clear timeline of how these two intertwine?

I also liked the acknowledgement of the Batman 666 stuff when going over the future history in Tec. Good stuff.

----------


## Caivu

> Been catching up on Batwoman and Tec. Do we have a clear timeline of how these two intertwine?


The whole series so far (except #6) has to happen before A Lonely Place of Living. I lean toward the first arc taking place after Kate heals from being stabbed in League of Shadows. She returns to the States like 2-3 weeks after the events of the first arc, so she could've been back in Gotham for Intelligence.

----------


## Caivu

Commission WIP by Renae De Liz:

b8dab38c-fcd2-4faa-9665-53354710db74.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Yet more Marc Laming WIP:

IMG_20171113_145252.jpg

----------


## Caivu

More again:

IMG_20171115_110924.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Even more process on that last panel:

IMG_20171115_153606.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Detective Comics #970 variant cover by Rafael Albuquerque:

Screenshot_20171116-122222.jpg

----------


## Oberon

The same, but different.

----------


## Caivu

> The same, but different.


Uh...  :Confused:

----------


## Caivu

Found this in Justice League #33, as part of the Hypertime scene:

Screenshot_20171116-163319.jpg

----------


## Man-Thing

Anyone know if this is any good?

dc521.jpg

https://www.graphicaudio.net/dc-comics-52-1-of-2.html
https://www.graphicaudio.net/dc-comics-52-2-of-2.html

----------


## Oberon

to me... the drawing seems like two artists/interpretations.  I know (think) they must be the same artist but

the artist has drawn them in a rather distinct way. Each of their 'styles', especially Kate's _is their own, or differing from each other_

at least to me, I see two equals but each stand... err, ride, on their own.


I guess I'm too cryptic for you?

----------


## Caivu

> Anyone know if this is any good?


First I've heard of those. Looks like it's gotten good reviews, but I'm not into audiobooks.





> to me... the drawing seems like two artists/interpretations.  I know (think) they must be the same artist but
> 
> the artist has drawn them in a rather distinct way. Each of their 'styles', especially Kate's _is their own, or differing from each other_
> 
> at least to me, I see two equals but each stand... err, ride, on their own.
> 
> 
> I guess I'm too cryptic for you?



No, I just didn't know what you meant. I can kinda see it now.

----------


## Caivu

Possibly the final WIP panel Marc Laming will be posting from issue #10:

Attachment 57914

----------


## Caivu

Okay, here's a question I asked on Twitter: in issue #9, while transforming into a giant bat to kick Scarecrow's ass, Kate mentions that she's now a manifestation of her worst fear. But what is that fear?

The two main answers I got were "losing her identity" and "becoming a criminal", both of which I can see based on the context of the scene. There's probably also an element of her family being hurt/killed or disappointed in her, since those have shown up in both this arc and in earlier fear toxin bouts she's gone through.

----------


## Oberon

Her biggest fear is 

of being herself. That which is called...

The Bat.    

I obviously haven't seen it yet; I'm just hopeful that I'll see "Thor" tomorrow since its my birthday (62) and also my anniversary (36th).  Dinner at a local and great Thai restaurant. 

So I hope to pick it up soon-ish, but I think from the various elements of Elegy and also her first volume, Kate has a mostly subconscious fear of being herself, which is in most respects like Bruce, being the Bat. So it may(eventually) go to the core of all that, with the Dark Metal stuff and the tribes stuff.

But it could also mean that sign of justice. And a Bat is what the most cowardly criminals 'fear'. So Scarecrow getting a good dose of his own medicine I guess.

Can't wait to see it!

----------


## Man-Thing

> First I've heard of those. Looks like it's gotten good reviews, but I'm not into audiobooks.


These are fairly decent. I've been listening to their Planet Hulk dramatic reading. Haven't listened to 52 yet, but it's now in the queue. Will try to figure out who on the cast list is playing Renee and Kate (and wait isn't Bette in that one scene?)

----------


## Caivu

> Her biggest fear is 
> 
> of being herself. 
> 
> ...
> 
> So I hope to pick it up soon-ish, but I think from the various elements of Elegy and also her first volume, Kate has a mostly subconscious fear of being herself, which is in most respects like Bruce, being the Bat. So it may(eventually) go to the core of all that, with the Dark Metal stuff and the tribes stuff.


Doesn't that run completely counter to her decision to leave West Point, among other things? I've never really seen her having that level of fear about herself. You'll have to sell me on this one.

----------


## Oberon

Being the Bat gives you more freedom, certainly than she had at West Pointe. It was the "way to serve", but it has also seemed like a curse.

You're more well versed in BW, her story. And you do her credit. Some of this to me, is more of a visceral feel, and maybe others won't feel the same way.
  The other thing is in "serving", she has been subject to some eerie stuff, and thats what the hallucinatory scenes I've seen so far, in previous issues - 

they rather recall that semi supernatural stuff with Abbott (?), Beth, the Religion of Crime, etc.  The sense of dreaminess, hypnotic and surreal. 
     I suppose I'm not selling this well, and hope to read the issue. Sorry if I've wobbled on there.  Then again, the fear may be repressed, and in her subconscious, but in the scene you mention, it unleashes this way and is brutal.  Maybe the fear is her unrepressed rage. Due to all these things; her mother, Beth, her own death and rebirth with the pits.... This is the self she's afraid of being. A rage she may not be able to control.
  Its possible that the one person she feels she can trust (or did) is Bette, who has never really done her any wrong, not intentionally at least. And that also explains her off and cool behavior with her, which seems notable with all the other Bat-folks in her world. She tries to protect her and people like her, from that rage in herself too.

----------


## Caivu

> Being the Bat gives you more freedom, certainly than she had at West Pointe. It was the "way to serve", but it has also seemed like a curse.


Eh... I don't think so. There's too much of a time gap there, I think. It's not like Kate went immediately into becoming a vigilante after West Point, and even though she's couched in Bat imagery, it's not really a thing for her the way it is for Bruce.




> Maybe the fear is her unrepressed rage.


Okay, _that_ I could see as a possibility. Kate usually has a pretty good reign on her anger (since really, it's always present), but if she truly went off the deep end there, she could potentially do a lot of damage.

----------


## Caivu

I've been thinking about it more, and I'm liking the idea of this fear being her uncontrolled rage. That's got some precedence as far back as Elegy, when Kate pretty easily threatened to wipe out the all the werepeople of Gotham if they didn't leave her alone.

----------


## Caivu

In light of the revelation about Colony Prime this week, I went back through his prior appearances to see if that had been foreshadowed. And it may have, in 'Tec #949:

Screenshot_20171118-172829.jpg

It's not explicit, but this can definitely be interpreted now as Prime picturing himself in Gabi's place, and how that would hurt his daughter.

----------


## Oberon

I almost has time to pick it up yesterday at my store(few miles away), but then we had to wait on Thor tickets; seems three weeks in and we still didn't arrive early enough and had to wait for the next showing (not quite an hour)

but it through our time off and we didn't go to Dearborn for dinner (where the comic store is).  RATZ

but I did very much enjoy the movie.     With the last couple of issues, of both 'Tec and BW, I'm more in the groove with it; more engaged with current story lines.

----------


## Caivu

By Jim Lee:

Screenshot_20171119-090519.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Marc Laming, expressing similar sentiments as Fernando Blanco did a few months ago:

Screenshot_20171119-170037.jpg

----------


## Oberon

While I often don't reference the creative team of a particular book, in this case, it is really everything; that.he.did.

----------


## Caivu

detective975.jpg

DETECTIVE COMICS #975 

Written by James Tynion IV, art by Alvaro Martinez and Raul Fernandez, cover by Guillem March, variant cover by Rafael Albuquerque.

"The Trial of Batwoman." In a 30-page anniversary story, Batwoman faces scrutiny from Batman and Red Robin but stands up for her actions. Will Batman allow her to continue bearing his symbol after everything she has done?

----------


## Barbatos666

Where did you get that solicit from?

----------


## Caivu

> Where did you get that solicit from?



http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stori...1/20/dcfeb.htm

----------


## Caivu

Also, the solicit for issue #12 this month was originally given for #10. Here's the updated #10 solicit:

"'Fear and Loathing' finale! In order to escape a wonderland of nightmares, Batwoman must embrace the monster within to defeat Scarecrow once and for all. But Dr. Crane is the least of her worries, Colony is coming to the rescue and her father turned enemy, Colonel Jacob Kane, is leading the charge. Could this father/daughter reunion be the beginning of the end for Kate Kane’s career as Batwoman?"

Blanco and Laming on art, which we knew. Ben Oliver is apparently doing the regular cover.

----------


## Barbatos666

Ok thanks.

----------


## Katana500

Cass and Bruce look pretty angry at Kate in the Cover. I wonder what she does and if she will be kicked out the team.

----------


## Bat-Meal

My guess, considering the writer interviews earlier on about Rebirth 'Tec and the different ideologies between Batwoman as a soldier and Batman as a Warrior - she'll eliminate a threat to protect her squad.  Batman has a no kill rule, but it might not be the same for Batwoman.

It's an interesting one, because it's somewhat murky whether she's a character that would kill or not:

-She uses guns sometimes, and lethal force sometimes depending (though usually that's just for metas/demi-gods)
-In her original solo during her training her father tested her to see if she would lose it and kill, she held back but admitted that there were giveaways that the murder scene wasn't real
-In her original 'Tec run, her father asks/reminds her to stick to the 'Batman no kill rule'
-In the Andreyko issues, her sister states that Kate hasn't killed anyone yet and that she (Beth/Alice) is the only one of the two of them who is a killer

----------


## Caivu

> Batman has a no kill rule, but it might not be the same for Batwoman.


It's definitely not the same for her.




> It's an interesting one, because *it's somewhat murky whether she's a character that would kill or not*:
> 
> -She uses guns sometimes, *and lethal force sometimes* depending (though usually that's just for metas/demi-gods)


Doesn't that answer the question?  :Confused: 

She's killed 5 or 6 people by now (or "sentient beings" if you want to be technical).




> -In the Andreyko issues, her sister states that Kate hasn't killed anyone yet and that she (Beth/Alice) is the only one of the two of them who is a killer


Well, if it was just _killing_ both Alice and Andreyko were wrong about that, quite frankly. I mean, Kate killed Alice, for starts (or at least, Kate herself believes so).

Now, if it's _murder_, then it'd be correct, and that's probably what it was in context, since Nocturna had been hypnotizing Kate to believe she was murdering people.

But kill? Kate has no qualms about killing.

----------


## Bat-Meal

Perhaps I should rephrase - what would be lethal force if the targets were not metas/demi-gods and hence they don't die so easily.  She doesn't use lethal force against humans, so when she does resort to such tactics it's very calculated.  Note the one time she did use a gun against batman she aimed for his legs, not the head and he did sneak up on her so she was attacking more on instinct.

Who has she actually killed?  Can you provide a list. 

I don't remember he ever actually killing a foe, but the original solo baddies were quite forgettable, so maybe she did and I just didn't care.  Alice killed herself by intentionally stabbing Kate's hand to force her to let go.  She's maimed foes (the demi-god/metas whatever they were).

----------


## Caivu

> Who has she actually killed?  Can you provide a list.


1. Bruno Mannheim (killed by throwing a large knife into his back after he stabbed her with it)

2. Alice (dropped her from a plane; whether or nor this actually counts, Kate believes it does)

2A. Not actual kills, but she threatened to exterminate the entire wereperson population of Gotham if they didn't stay away from her and her family.

3. Killed Medusa by petrifying her and punching her apart

4 - 6. Killed three of Morgaine le Fey's monster henchmen (two by impaling them, one by breaking his neck).

7. Killed Morgaine le Fey by trapping her inside a magical stone and smashing it.

She also shot Colony Prime in the face with a shotgun when he was monsterfied, so there was possibly an intent to kill there.

----------


## Caivu

I read a review of the new Vol.1, and its author, Brian Clements, began with a great opening paragraph that articulates a lot of what I've tried to here and elsewhere:




> Since its debut, Batwoman has been, I believe purposefully, difficult to categorize.  Many might want to make it about the hero’s gender, others about her sexuality.  Having a strong female lead, both in terms of physical strength and depth of character, knocks some off their axes.  Kate Kane does not fit the traditional, archetypal roles we expect from female characters.  She combines the effortless grace of Wonder Woman with the physicality of Batman.  Even when, pre-Batwoman, Kane is at her most vulnerable, she is not the helpless damsel in distress, nor is she some stereotype to be categorized, pinned down like a butterfly in a collection.  Kate is beautiful, determined, loving, firm in her convictions, and stronger than many give her credit for.


http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com...ff-their-axis/

----------


## Bat-Meal

I never saw the pre-elegy stuff, I only vaguely know she got stabbed because Elegy starts with her complaining about how long it was taking her to recover physically.


The other possibility is calling on the colony for help against the VS - that'd upset the team all right.

----------


## Oberon

Awesome summation.

----------


## Caivu

John Rauch finishing the colors on issue #10:

Screenshot_20171121-112116.jpg

Screenshot_20171121-112046.jpg

Probably from early in the issue, since that looks like Blanco's art.

----------


## Man-Thing

Interesting Feb solicits. I wonder what the "twist no one was expecting" will be in issue 12, and it looks like the speculation about Kate getting stripped of her Bat emblem were on the money given the sole oversized issue of Tec for that month is about her being judged by the bats on whether she will be "allowed" to continue being Batwoman.

----------


## Caivu

> Interesting Feb solicits. I wonder what the "twist no one was expecting" will be in issue 12,


I'm almost afraid to say what I think, since I'm paranoid that at least one person involved in shaping Kate's story reads these forums; there have been too many instances of the current series having significantly different content compared to their solicits. 




> and it looks like the speculation about Kate getting stripped of her Bat emblem were on the money given the sole oversized issue of Tec for that month is about her being judged by the bats on whether she will be "allowed" to continue being Batwoman.


I get why the solicit phrased it the way it did, but it's kinda ridiculous if you think about it. Kate started off wearing a Bat without his permission, so the only reasonable reaction I can think of to him trying to take that away from her is to tell him to go piss up a rope. Or fight him or something. _Especially_ if she thinks she was justified in whatever she did, which the solicit seems to indicate she does. If she gives up being Batwoman, it should be on _her_ terms, not his (barring something out of left field).

The cover also makes me wonder something. The expectation is that Cass is going to be upset with Kate, which would make sense... but the cover can be read a different way. Cass is standing beside Kate, not Bruce, and has her back to him. She's not in an obviously accusatory pose. Maybe that means nothing, maybe it's intentionally ambiguous... or maybe it's important.

----------


## Man-Thing

> I'm almost afraid to say what I think, since I'm paranoid that at least one person involved in shaping Kate's story reads these forums; there have been too many instances of the current series having significantly different content compared to their solicits.


Speaking of which, this is what's on DC's site for issue 12: "“CORYANA”-- As Batwoman begins the hunt for the Mother of War, she recalls the death of love -- the brutal end of her lost year upon the secret island of Coryana. As  Safiyah, the Lady of the Island, seeks the villain who carried a deadly virus into paradise, treachery, butchery, passion, and plague bring the island to a fever pitch! "

and this is what's in the solicits that just went up the other day: "After her deadly trip around the world hunting the infamous Many Arms of Death, Batwoman returns to Brussels, the site of her most brutal losses and memories. As the clock begins to tick on a new cycle of violence, Kate must overcome her haunted past to ensure her terrorist foes don’t begin the New Year with a bang! Don’t miss the issue we’ve been building to all year, with a twist no one saw coming!"

So, uh, which is it?

----------


## Caivu

> Speaking of which, this is what's on DC's site for issue 12: "“CORYANA”-- As Batwoman begins the hunt for the Mother of War, she recalls the death of love -- the brutal end of her lost year upon the secret island of Coryana. As  Safiyah, the Lady of the Island, seeks the villain who carried a deadly virus into paradise, treachery, butchery, passion, and plague bring the island to a fever pitch! "
> 
> and this is what's in the solicits that just went up the other day: "After her deadly trip around the world hunting the infamous Many Arms of Death, Batwoman returns to Brussels, the site of her most brutal losses and memories. As the clock begins to tick on a new cycle of violence, Kate must overcome her haunted past to ensure her terrorist foes don’t begin the New Year with a bang! Don’t miss the issue we’ve been building to all year, with a twist no one saw coming!"
> 
> So, uh, which is it?


They changed it _again?!_ WTF, DC?

I did see that Dan Panosian, the artist for the cover for #12 (originally #10) tagged it on Instagram as issue #13, so... I'm not too surprised, I guess?

Screenshot_20171122-122233.jpg

----------


## Man-Thing

> They changed it _again?!_ WTF, DC?
> 
> I did see that Dan Panosian, the artist for the cover for #12 (originally #10) tagged it on Instagram as issue #13, so... I'm not too surprised, I guess?
> 
> Screenshot_20171122-122233.jpg


That cover, incidentally, is displayed in the solicits for issue 12, and is attached to both issues 10 and 12 on DC's site.

----------


## Caivu

> That cover, incidentally, is displayed in the solicits for issue 12, and is attached to both issues 10 and 12 on DC's site.


Yeah, I know. It's just weird for all these changes to be happening so fast.

----------


## Man-Thing

What was the original plan?

----------


## Caivu

> What was the original plan?


BATWOMAN #10

Written by MARGUERITE BENNETT
Art by SCOTT GODLEWSKI
Cover by DAN PANOSIAN
Variant cover by MICHAEL CHO

“Home Horrors” part one! After her deadly trip around the world hunting the infamous Many Arms of Death, Batwoman returns to Geneva, the site of her most brutal losses and memories. As the clock begins to tick on a new cycle of violence, Kate must overcome her haunted past to ensure her terrorist foes don’t begin the new year with a bang!

On sale DECEMBER 20 • 32 pg, FC, $3.99 US • RATED T+

It does make more sense that this story should happen after Kate takes down TMAoD once and for all, but still.

----------


## Caivu

My copy of the vol. 1 TPB arrived, and they added Kate's bluebird tattoo back in. For the most part. But her arrowhead was overlooked again. I'm considering drawing it back in myself because it bugs me so much.

----------


## Caivu

Batwoman #10 variant by Michael Cho:

IMG_20171122_170806.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Found another favorable review of vol. 1:

https://thechicocomicspage.com/2017/...-the-familiar/

This one acknowledges something that I don't think has been talked about enough: that this series plays with the conventions of the genres it blends, namely spy and noir. I can vouch for that, because in filling out the TV Tropes page for the series, I've noticed how many of the present tropes are not played fully straight.

----------


## Caivu

So, I was rereading The Victim Syndicate, and ran across this bit that Steph says:

Attachment 58193

Which is very similar to something Kate thinks about in Batwoman #9:

Attachment 58194

Attachment 58195

Coupled with that one panel of Steph crying over Kate apparently leaving, this is pretty interesting. 

Steph's main goal with what she was doing was to stop vigilantism to help save vigilantes from that kind of life, and that seems like something Kate has on her mind now. But they seem to be going about it in different ways: Steph by attempting to erode public trust in vigilantes, and Kate by, apparently, eliminating the need for vigilantes (killing supervillains). That's all speculation right now, but it's pretty neat and a lot of the evidence points to it.

----------


## Caivu

I love how enthusiastic the creative team is about the series, and this is just one more example:

Screenshot_20171123-142830.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Reno Msad:

Screenshot_20171123-021518.jpg

By Adam Quinones:

Screenshot_20171123-021708.jpg

By Carl Corilla:

Screenshot_20171123-021738.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Here's a bit of a voting thing.

http://community.comicbookresources....ll-of-Comicdom

----------


## Caivu

Pro: Bat-Aunt!
Con: Dumb 52-era mask.

IMG_20171122_160804.jpg

----------


## Bat-Meal

If Batwoman gets kicked-out of the team, I wonder if there's a chance of another team-up with Flamebird, since Bette showed-up in a recent issue.  

It'd be great to see the two cousins in action again, and the two of them are closer (and have more history) than Batwoman is with any of the Knights IMO.

----------


## Caivu

> If Batwoman gets kicked-out of the team, I wonder if there's a chance of another team-up with Flamebird, since Bette showed-up in a recent issue.  
> 
> It'd be great to see the two cousins in action again, and the two of them are closer (and have more history) than Batwoman is with any of the Knights IMO.


That would make the most sense, I think (except if she leaves, it should be on her own terms unless she was brainwashed into doing whatever she ends up doing).

----------


## Caivu

This is old, but heartening news for Kate's Injusticeverse counterpart:

Screenshot_20171125-224748.jpg

----------


## Oberon

I don't know much about the Injustice thing.   Is that a game?  My son talks about it, so, must be a game, lol.

The idea of Bette being a special/partner type team with Kate is heartening to me!   While I don't want to see Kate removed from Detective (and I still haven't read that latest issue; sucky Batwoman-fan, me)

I would really like her own book to feature Bette and stories related to "Kate's universe". Detective is now becoming a larger team book, has. I love team books more than solo books, with Batwoman being the # 1 exception to that rule.
 So I get to see her play out in the bigger stream of Bat-dom.
 Remember, I'm not really a DC or Bat reader or fan, so most of these characters are still fresh to me or rather mostly unknown.

I can say that I am not getting Basil, the Clayface. This is actually odd, since he 'memes' closer to the weird, semi/supernatural themes that I loved in the first BW run.

But its not like I would dump the book or heap lots of hate. Some of his things are cool or okay.

The other characters are all growing on me and I'm beginning to better distinguish some traits and histories, etc.  I guess it doesn't matter

since it may all be up in play as Rebirth works its way through the DC universe.

----------


## Caivu

> I don't know much about the Injustice thing.   Is that a game?  My son talks about it, so, must be a game, lol.


Both a game series and a prequel comic to each game. Batwoman was a member of Batman's Insurgency fighting Superman's worldwide Regime. She survived until the end of the first comic, and was directly involved (along with Barbara) in causing the events of the first game.

Then this happened:

Screenshot_20171126-090640.jpg

Bruce and Barbara survived this, so it's not unreasonable that Kate could have, but she's been forgotten by the narrative and other characters.

----------


## Oberon

So, obviously or strictly speaking its not in continuity with her series or other appearances.   But I love the scene, and to me, in a way, that is why I love her character. She stands against "the normal order", or perception(s) of business as usual.

If the DC universe in comics truly went to this darkness, she would be the one opposing it. Certainly with others, but she would be leading I think.   I only know that from what I get from her personality and character.  That's why the appearance of her killing is not as crucial for me to like her. I certainly don't approve and want to see her killing, but she will do what may have to be done, and deal with the regrets later.   Do you see her that way too?

----------


## Caivu

> That's why the appearance of her killing is not as crucial for me to like her. I certainly don't approve and want to see her killing, but she will do what may have to be done, and deal with the regrets later.   Do you see her that way too?


For this upcoming "trial" to work, the situation has to not be clear-cut one way or the other. There's not really a point otherwise, dramatically speaking.

Here's the possibilities I can see:

1. Kate kills someone because she's been brainwashed into being a sleeper agent by Scarecrow. So then the trial is more about her mental state and whether she can continue being Batwoman, or cured.

2. She kills someone because it's the only option, or at least the only obvious or percievable option to her. Then you get a discussion of when killing is justified, and a chance for Bruce and Kate to hash out their respective views in detail, and see who the other Knights side with. That could be really cool.

3. Kate kills someone on accident. This one's really unlikely, since the solicit indicates that Kate is convinced that she is in the right with whatever she ends up doing, and causing an accidental death is not something she'd be okay with.

----------


## Caivu

By Mahmud Asrar:

Screenshot_20171126-105625.jpg

----------


## Bat-Meal

> Here's the possibilities I can see:
> 
> *1. Kate kills someone because she's been brainwashed into being a sleeper agent by Scarecrow. So then the trial is more about her mental state and whether she can continue being Batwoman, or cured.*
> 
> 2. She kills someone because it's the only option, or at least the only obvious or percievable option to her. Then you get a discussion of when killing is justified, and a chance for Bruce and Kate to hash out their respective views in detail, and see who the other Knights side with. That could be really cool.
> 
> 3. Kate kills someone on accident. This one's really unlikely, since the solicit indicates that Kate is convinced that she is in the right with whatever she ends up doing, and causing an accidental death is not something she'd be okay with.


In the last issue the VS seems very confident one of the Knights will betray their own team.  Spoiler already sort of did that the last time, so it won't be her again, and Clayface seems too obvious/easy, so it could be Batwoman.

----------


## Caivu

> In the last issue the VS seems very confident one of the Knights will betray their own team.  Spoiler already sort of did that the last time, so it won't be her again, and Clayface seems too obvious/easy, so it could be Batwoman.


If it is her, the only way that makes sense is if she's been brainwashed or something. Kate allying with villains of her own accord would be disgustingly out-of-character. I honestly can't think of a scenario besides her not being herself where that would be okay.

If it's not this, it would be a crushing misstep, and it would throw out a lot of the goodwill I've given Tynion. He's written her almist perfectly so far, so I have faith in him.

----------


## Caivu

Another positive review of the first TPB:

http://collectededitions.blogspot.co...=hootsuite&m=1

----------


## millernumber1

> In the last issue the VS seems very confident one of the Knights will betray their own team.  Spoiler already sort of did that the last time, so it won't be her again, and Clayface seems too obvious/easy, so it could be Batwoman.


I'm going to be pretty mad if it's Spoiler again. I don't think "too obvious" is necessarily the same as "Tynion won't do it." I love the guy, but he's really into the big, bold, and obvious stories.

----------


## Caivu

Clayface makes much more sense because of his instability and the fact that he's regularly been meeting with one of the members of the VS. It might not even be a conscious betrayal on his part, but an indication that the VS knows he's slipping.

----------


## Assam

> Clayface makes much more sense because of his instability and the fact that he's regularly been meeting with one of the members of the VS. It might not even be a conscious betrayal on his part, but an indication that the VS knows he's slipping.


The solicits basically tell us that the VS get beaten about half way through this story, the team left to fight an amplified version of "One of Batman's strongest rogues." Obviously my brain turned to Clayface when I saw that, but after the last issue, I wonder if it might be Grundy. No, Grundy isn't exactly a Batman rogue, but Duke and Hal aren't Batman's closest allies either.

----------


## Caivu

> The solicits basically tell us that the VS get beaten about half way through this story, the team left to fight an amplified version of "One of Batman's strongest rogues." Obviously my brain turned to Clayface when I saw that, but after the last issue, I wonder if it might be Grundy. No, Grundy isn't exactly a Batman rogue, but Duke and Hal aren't Batman's closest allies either.


But if it's Grundy, then at the very least he's not the one to get killed, since he _can't_ be killed. And _some_one's gettin' killed:

BLAM.JPG

The variant for #971 hints that Mr. Freeze is getting involved somehow:

DPRcsD_V4AImsOI.jpg large.jpg

----------


## millernumber1

> Clayface makes much more sense because of his instability and the fact that he's regularly been meeting with one of the members of the VS. It might not even be a conscious betrayal on his part, but an indication that the VS knows he's slipping.


Oooh. What if it's like what happened to Clayface in White Knight?

----------


## Caivu

> Oooh. What if it's like what happened to Clayface in White Knight?


What was that?

----------


## millernumber1

> What was that?


Uh. Do you care about spoilers?

----------


## Caivu

> Uh. Do you care about spoilers?


No, but tag them for anyone else who might.

----------


## millernumber1

> No, but tag them for anyone else who might.


Okay. So *spoilers:*
in White Knight, Joker - going by Jack Napier after he is "cured" - uses Mad Hatter technology to mind control Clayface, then makes Clayface go through a process that turns him into dust. He then mixes the dust into a lot of drinks,
 and uses the mind-controlled Clayface dust in drinks to take control of all the other villains. So basically, I'm curious to know if Kate's choice has to do with killing Clayface, or doing something with Clayface that is morally questionable in the name of fighting crime.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Caivu

> Okay. So *spoilers:*
> in White Knight, Joker - going by Jack Napier after he is "cured" - uses Mad Hatter technology to mind control Clayface, then makes Clayface go through a process that turns him into dust. He then mixes the dust into a lot of drinks,
>  and uses the mind-controlled Clayface dust in drinks to take control of all the other villains. So basically, I'm curious to know if Kate's choice has to do with killing Clayface, or doing something with Clayface that is morally questionable in the name of fighting crime.
> *end of spoilers*


Everything is pointing toward her killing someone, so I don't think it's that second thing (plus, is that severe enough to warrant a "trial"?).

----------


## Caivu

If anyone would like to help vote for Kate in this thread, I'd appreciate it:

http://community.comicbookresources....dition!/page80

----------


## millernumber1

> Everything is pointing toward her killing someone, so I don't think it's that second thing (plus, is that severe enough to warrant a "trial"?).


I think that it's possible Kate does something like "refuse to let Clayface retreat from battle to rehumanize," leading to Clayface losing control and all sense of conscience again. That would be pretty terrible, without killing.

----------


## Caivu

> I think that it's possible Kate does something like "refuse to let Clayface retreat from battle to rehumanize," leading to Clayface losing control and all sense of conscience again. That would be pretty terrible, without killing.


I can't see that being worthy of a trial, though. That would just be a case of a risky maneuver that backfires, and that's something not unique to her. Why single her out for that?

----------


## millernumber1

> I can't see that being worthy of a trial, though. That would just be a case of a risky maneuver that backfires, and that's something not unique to her. Why single her out for that?


I dunno. I'm just speculating what might happen. But I do think that having Kate actually kill someone directly would be pretty serious, at a level that I am not convinced editorial would let any of their characters take.

----------


## Caivu

> I dunno. I'm just speculating what might happen. But I do think that having Kate actually kill someone directly would be pretty serious, at a level that I am not convinced editorial would let any of their characters take.


But Kate _has_ killed before. Multiple times. It wouldn't be a radical departure from her character or anything, and that very conflict has popped up a few times already in Rebirth.

----------


## millernumber1

> But Kate _has_ killed before. Multiple times. It wouldn't be a radical departure from her character or anything, and that very conflict has popped up a few times already in Rebirth.


Hmm. I am surprised, because I am blanking on all these deaths and the conflict about it in Rebirth. Refresh my memory?

----------


## Caivu

> Hmm. I am surprised, because I am blanking on all these deaths and the conflict about it in Rebirth. Refresh my memory?


Kate has killed:

Bruno Mannheim
Alice (whether or not it actually counts, Kate believes she's responsible for Alice's death)
Medusa
Three of Morgaine Le Fey's henchmen
Morgaine Le Fey

She also had an indirect role in the deaths of Falchion and Maro, and threatened to kill all the werepeople in Gotham if they didn't leave her and her family alone. She hasn't actually killed anyone yet in Rebirth, but since Kate's continuity has been ongoing since Elegy and hasn't restarted, those all still count.

In Rebirth specifically, Kate shot Colony Prime in the face point-blank with a shotgun in 'Tec #949, and the only reason he survived is because he was monsterfied at the time. And in her solo series, part of Julia Pennyworth's role is to monitor Kate and report on if she kills or not.

----------


## Man-Thing

SO I was reading through that timeline I wrote up a million pages ago and am now wondering where The Crows fit in to the whole Colony business.

----------


## millernumber1

> Kate has killed:
> 
> Bruno Mannheim
> Alice (whether or not it actually counts, Kate believes she's responsible for Alice's death)
> Medusa
> Three of Morgaine Le Fey's henchmen
> Morgaine Le Fey
> 
> She also had an indirect role in the deaths of Falchion and Maro, and threatened to kill all the werepeople in Gotham if they didn't leave her and her family alone. She hasn't actually killed anyone yet in Rebirth, but since Kate's continuity has been ongoing since Elegy and hasn't restarted, those all still count.
> ...


Mannheim - yes. I forgot because 52 still isn't part of my mental history of Kate, because she looks and sounds so different from Elegy. But it's definitely still canon.
I don't count Alice, because Alice forced Kate to drop her.
Medusa's not human. Batman didn't rag on Wonder Woman for killing Medusa in 2005, so I don't think he'd consider it a problem in the n52 either.
Uh. Are we still trying to count Andreyko's run as canon?  :Wink:  (seriously - those arcs were so painful to read I've blocked almost everything except Alice coming back)

----------


## Man-Thing

Speaking of, what if Kate's biggest fear being represented at the end of the last issue is being the vampire bat monster she could have been as seen in the Future's End issue?

----------


## Caivu

> I don't count Alice, because Alice forced Kate to drop her.


Kate still considers herself guilty of that, though. That's why I'm counting it.




> Medusa's not human. Batman didn't rag on Wonder Woman for killing Medusa in 2005, so I don't think he'd consider it a problem in the n52 either.


Then it should be okay to kill extraterrestrials? I thought the cutoff was "sapient beings".




> Uh. Are we still trying to count Andreyko's run as canon?  (seriously - those arcs were so painful to read I've blocked almost everything except Alice coming back)


It is, and I'm not a fan of discarding a run solely because it sucked. Kate mentioned during "Intelligence" that she dated a vampire once, for starters.




> SO I was reading through that timeline I wrote up a million pages ago and am now wondering where The Crows fit in to the whole Colony business.


They might not be a part of it. The implication I got is that Jacob dragged them out of semi-retirement specifically to train Kate, and then later Bette.




> Speaking of, what if Kate's biggest fear being represented at the end of the last issue is being the vampire bat monster she could have been as seen in the Future's End issue?


I don't think it's specifically that, but I'm not 100% sure what she was referring to.

----------


## millernumber1

> Kate still considers herself guilty of that, though. That's why I'm counting it.
> 
> Then it should be okay to kill extraterrestrials? I thought the cutoff was "sapient beings".
> 
> It is, and I'm not a fan of discarding a run solely because it sucked. Kate mentioned during "Intelligence" that she dated a vampire once, for starters.


The fact that she considers herself guilty of it means to me that she would be less likely, not more, to kill again.

Monsters aren't the same as an alien. Aliens could be sentient and moral and live in harmony with humans. Monsters only want to kill humans, and so the only appropriate response by humans is self defensive killing. (Again, Batman has no problems with Diana killing Medusa on live television, so I think it's clear that at least from DC's editorial position, killing Medusa doesn't "count" in any meaningful sense.)

Well. They've already discarded Andreyko's tweaking of Kate's origin (at least, that's ProgramX's interpretation), so I don't see why other things can't be discarded. Yes, obviously the Nocturna thing is still somewhat canon - but I wouldn't be surprised if it were a version of it, not exactly what happened in the published book.

----------


## Caivu

> The fact that she considers herself guilty of it means to me that she would be less likely, not more, to kill again.


Kate feels guilty for that because she believes killed her sister, not because she killed full stop. Too many other things point to her being willing to kill if needed.




> Monsters aren't the same as an alien. Aliens could be sentient and moral and live in harmony with humans. Monsters only want to kill humans, and so the only appropriate response by humans is self defensive killing. (Again, Batman has no problems with Diana killing Medusa on live television, so I think it's clear that at least from DC's editorial position, killing Medusa doesn't "count" in any meaningful sense.)


Has Batman himself ever killed monsters that weren't just mindless beasts? And I thought he was understanding of WW killing in general.




> Well. They've already discarded Andreyko's tweaking of Kate's origin (at least, that's ProgramX's interpretation), so I don't see why other things can't be discarded. Yes, obviously the Nocturna thing is still somewhat canon - but I wouldn't be surprised if it were a version of it, not exactly what happened in the published book.


I just don't like contradictory retcons like that. Kate's had almost none of them, so doing that now would be particularly noticeable.

----------


## millernumber1

> Kate feels guilty for that because she believes killed her sister, not because she killed full stop. Too many other things point to her being willing to kill if needed.
> 
> Has Batman himself ever killed monsters that weren't just mindless beasts? And I thought he was understanding of WW killing in general.
> 
> I just don't like contradictory retcons like that. Kate's had almost none of them, so doing that now would be particularly noticeable.


Eh. I think the "too many other things" aren't really that many, obviously. So clearly I'm just interpreting Kate differently - probably the same reason I jar so much against Bennett's "Kate is so flawed" approach. To me, Batwoman is the pure hero who says, "I'm always on Batman rules." The reason she is so let down by her dad's betrayal is because her standards are so high.

Night of the Monster Men! He killed those monsters super hardcore! Though you could argue that zombies are different from mythical Greek monsters.

Eh. I think it's fairly standard practice to retcon things that weren't super well received unless you have a Morrison plan for it. One may not like it, but it's still happening all the time when you have so many writers.

----------


## Caivu

> Eh. I think the "too many other things" aren't really that many, obviously.


Well, that's wrong, quite frankly. She's killed multiple times. She's okay with it if need be. There's nothing that contradicts that, anywhere.




> So clearly I'm just interpreting Kate differently - probably the same reason I jar so much against Bennett's "Kate is so flawed" approach. To me, Batwoman is the pure hero who says, "I'm always on Batman rules." The reason she is so let down by her dad's betrayal is because her standards are so high.


Not so much "differently" as "incomplete". I don't think Kate is a character that allows for a lot of room for interpretation, since she's been so consistently written. There's no option to pick and choose with her the way there is with Batman.

Kate does have high standards, you're right, but that's only one part of why Jacob's actions hurt her so much. And while I don't think Bennett is right about the way she thinks of Kate as A Mess (even though that doesn't really come through in the series), she's not wrong that Kate some pretty big flaws. She's absolutely not pure, and I'm honestly confused how you can think that.

She's contradictory, deliberately so. One examole: She has this high level of personal discipline, but also loves going out partying and spending the night with random women. That's not an act the way it would be with Bruce.




> Eh. I think it's fairly standard practice to retcon things that weren't super well received unless you have a Morrison plan for it. One may not like it, but it's still happening all the time when you have so many writers.


Maybe, but not in this case. She's been pretty immune to removal-style retcons so far, and I want it to stay that way.

----------


## millernumber1

> Well, that's wrong, quite frankly. She's killed multiple times. She's okay with it if need be. There's nothing that contradicts that, anywhere.
> 
> Not so much "differently" as "incomplete". I don't think Kate is a character that allows for a lot of room for interpretation, since she's been so consistently written. There's no option to pick and choose with her the way there is with Batman.
> 
> Kate does have high standards, you're right, but that's only one part of why Jacob's actions hurt her so much. And while I don't think Bennett is right about the way she thinks of Kate as A Mess (even though that doesn't really come through in the series), she's not wrong that Kate some pretty big flaws. She's absolutely not pure, and I'm honestly confused how you can think that.
> 
> She's contradictory, deliberately so. One examole: She has this high level of personal discipline, but also loves going out partying and spending the night with random women. That's not an act the way it would be with Bruce.
> 
> Maybe, but not in this case. She's been pretty immune to removal-style retcons so far, and I want it to stay that way.


So far, I would say you have one straightforward killing - Mannheim, one monster (who I really don't think is even a question), and something that happened at the end of a very murky arc that hasn't been mentioned again and has never had any consequences for Kate's characterization (and if I were forced to come up with an answer, I'd say "fantasy dimension, probably not truly sentient because created by sorceress" or something similar). Interestingly, the one kill I'd really give you, Mannheim, is never brought up as something Kate did wrong, by anyone - though it was while Bruce and his closest allies were gone, so maybe there was a sense of "no Batman, different rules" - but I still think that if "Kate is willing to kill" were a thing, you would have seen a lot more characterization like Helena Bertinelli got pre-Flashpoint. It's enough of a distinctive that I think someone would really have brought it up, since Huntress was known for two things (for non-fans) - she's the one Gotham vigilante who kills, and she's got the belly window.

The biggest point in your favor, I would say, is that Kate never goes on about the no-kill rule. And for a Bat to not go on about it is significant.

But you seem to be talking about Kate like she had a comparable body count to Jason "duffel bag full of heads" Todd pre-Flashpoint. To me, Kate is the woman who wanted so badly to help others, to serve her country, to be true to herself, that when she was told she couldn't do that, she was incredibly depressed and self destructive. And who sees the Bat not as a self-aggrandizement, or vengeance, but as a way to serve.

I'm not convinced that Kate actually loves partying and the hookup lifestyle. That, to me, reads as part of her self-destruction when she was unfairly kicked out of the army. We've seen her in a bar with Renee in Rebirth Tec, but she wasn't dancing or partying, but instead was being pretty meditative.

EDIT: Did a quick google, and apparently Kate didn't even necessarily kill Bruno, since he was seen after 52. Now, that doesn't mean Kate didn't kill him and he came back with some kind of Religion of Crime mumbo jumbo, but that seems like an interesting bit of evidence, and that would also explain why no one ever brought up Kate killing him later.

MOAR EDIT: Further googling and checking of reviews reveals no discussion of Kate killing. TVTropes mentions that she doesn't seem to have an aversion to killing, but it doesn't record any specific kills. Again, I know this is arguing from silence, but I think considering just how much crap Huntress got for being willing to kill (even though her actual recorded kills were pretty low, as far as I can tell), I really think that if DC intended for Kate to be another "killer vigilante" who "bucks the Bat's rules," it would have been something that was really obvious.

----------


## Caivu

> The biggest point in your favor, I would say, is that Kate never goes on about the no-kill rule. And for a Bat to not go on about it is significant.
> 
> But you seem to be talking about Kate like she had a comparable body count to Jason "duffel bag full of heads" Todd pre-Flashpoint.


If so, that's not what I'm meaning. I'm just saying that she is perfectly okay with killing if needed, and has demonstrated that multiple times. She has no moral qualms about it in and of itself. Why would she? She was originally going to be a soldier, after all.




> To me, Kate is the woman who wanted so badly to help others, to serve her country, to be true to herself, that when she was told she couldn't do that, she was incredibly depressed and self destructive. And who sees the Bat not as a self-aggrandizement, or vengeance, but as a way to serve.


You're correct about that. But that's not all she is.




> I'm not convinced that Kate actually loves partying and the hookup lifestyle. That, to me, reads as part of her self-destruction when she was unfairly kicked out of the army. We've seen her in a bar with Renee in Rebirth Tec, but she wasn't dancing or partying, but instead was being pretty meditative.


She was meditative because she had just embarked on a new venture in her life and was nervous. And there's a few panels that will help address your first point that I need to add.

Edit: this isn't the best one, but...

Screenshot_20171128-205729.jpg

I know that's past tense there. The better one I'm thinking of is in the first #0 issue, where Bruce follows her to a club and basically says "she's able to cut loose and be free in a way I just can't."




> Again, I know this is arguing from silence, but I think considering just how much crap Huntress got for being willing to kill (even though her actual recorded kills were pretty low, as far as I can tell), I really think that if DC intended for Kate to be another "killer vigilante" who "bucks the Bat's rules," it would have been something that was really obvious.


But that's not the intent. She's okay with killing, but she mostly refrains from it because she respects the symbol. That differentiates her from both Batman and Huntress. Kate's not there to buck the rules just for kicks; quite the opposite.

My biggest problem with all this is that you're basically trying to strip her of many of her major characteristics, in spite of the evidence... and thus making her waaay too similar to Batman, which is explicitly against a key point of her character.

----------


## millernumber1

> If so, that's not what I'm meaning. I'm just saying that she is perfectly okay with killing if needed, and has demonstrated that multiple times. She has no moral qualms about it in and of itself. Why would she? She was originally going to be a soldier, after all.
> 
> The better one I'm thinking of is in the first #0 issue, where Bruce folloqs her to a club and basically says "she's able to cut loose and be free in a way I just can't."
> 
> But that's not the intent. She's okay with killing, but she mostly refrains from it because she respects the symbol. That differentiates her from both Batman and Huntress.


I think there's a big difference - that Kate knows - between serving as a soldier who is asked to kill in combat, and volunteering as a vigilante protector in a civilian city in your homeland. It's one of the big reasons why Kate was so against the Colony's actions in Gotham, after all.

You have a point on the #0 issue, though I think it's important that it's not followed up in very many meaningful ways. Also, my own thought there is "being less repressed and emotionally damaged than Batman isn't a bad thing."  :Smile: 

I don't know how much further we can get in this discussion, barring actually posting the specific kills and taking a look at the circumstances in detail, but I appreciate the back and forth.

----------


## Caivu

> I don't know how much further we can get in this discussion, barring actually posting the specific kills and taking a look at the circumstances in detail, but I appreciate the back and forth.


That's not really the point, though. At least not that I'm making. I'm just saying she's willing to kill if necessary but refrains from it on the whole. She's not at the extreme of either Batman or Huntress in that regard.

----------


## Caivu

Screenshot_20171129-143405.jpg

Seeing this sort of thing always makes me happy.

----------


## Caivu

Unexpected, but Kate was in the New Talent Showcase today! She was one of the allies that Dick was mentally "hearing" give him advice and help, and one of his reinforcements at the end. Damian was as well, so this is yet another instance of Kate and Damian being in the same scene and not speaking to each other. I wish this one wasn't so questionably canon, because it was cool to see Dick have such explicit admiration for her.

The Red Hood/Signal story was more clearly canon, and implies that the Knights and Outlaws are on okay terms now, and that Kate and Selina might be as well.

----------


## CPSparkles

Family

----------


## Caivu

Exactly. That was such a pleasant surprise.

----------


## CPSparkles

I wasn't expecting it either. It wasn't advertised or anything.
Loved the theme

----------


## Caivu

The voting game is down to two, and Kate's in trouble! :0

Help her out if you want.

http://community.comicbookresources....dition!/page87

----------


## Man-Thing

pitching in where I can!

----------


## Caivu

> pitching in where I can!


Much appreciated!

----------


## Caivu

By Ozzie Coria:

Screenshot_20171130-165623.jpg

By Dan Asfour:

Screenshot_20171130-165533.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Delayed again:

Screenshot_20171202-093229.jpg

----------


## Caivu

> The voting game is down to two, and Kate's in trouble! :0
> 
> Help her out if you want.
> 
> http://community.comicbookresources....dition!/page87


It's over, and she won! Thanks to everyone who helped out. It was hairy there for a good while.

----------


## CPSparkles

Congratulations Kate

----------


## Oberon

I only collect Barbie/action figures with comparable size, but I sure would like to see one for Kate.  Maybe some day.  I have the original Barbie as Wonder Woman, still in box, from around 2000 or so.   The rare Batgirl (babs) from about 10 years ago, and I also have the less rare Batgirl on her Batcycle which was released at the same time.

Blah-blah-blah.

----------


## Caivu

By Kris Anka:

Screenshot_20171202-150319.jpg

By Tressina Bowling:

IMG_20171202_184427.jpg

----------


## Caivu

More Scott Godlewski WIP:
Screenshot_20171203-193119.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Sketch cover by Camillo Di Pietrantonio:

Screenshot_20171205-111613.jpg

----------


## Caivu

A couple by Ted Naifeh:

ba9e7733-c626-4d5f-960b-d0f402b6e561.jpg

138b7265-60ec-44c9-b05f-f49ff0b69bde.jpg

----------


## Caivu

And a couple more:

0d97a8c0-edb8-473e-ac94-8c00558bf63a.jpg

c1af9bf6-96df-4063-9ab4-1fb4113218df.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Batwoman #10 cover by Ben Oliver:

IMG_20171205_220506.jpg

New logo and stuff looking mighty fine.

----------


## millernumber1

> Batwoman #10 cover by Ben Oliver:
> 
> IMG_20171205_220506.jpg
> 
> New logo and stuff looking mighty fine.


Oh, hey, a new pattern for Oliver!  :Smile:

----------


## Caivu

Finally, some new images of the Multiverse figure:

ClayFace-Mulitiverse-08__scaled_300.jpg

ClayFace-Mulitiverse-09__scaled_400.jpg

ClayFace-Mulitiverse-10__scaled_400.jpg

You can see the rest of this wave here:

http://toynewsi.com/news.php?itemid=30241

----------


## Oberon

It's really nice.  I hope someday they do a 12" one (Sideshowtoys!)

----------


## Bat-Meal

Here's another thought, on that issue cover for next year Batwoman, Cass and Batman aren't in the Belfry prison.  And the previous issue talks about Tim piecing his dreams back together - maybe Batwoman blows-up the Belfry!?  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Caivu

> Here's another thought, on that issue cover for next year Batwoman, Cass and Batman aren't in the Belfry prison.  And the previous issue talks about Tim piecing his dreams back together - maybe Batwoman blows-up the Belfry!?


I know you're joking, but that'd just be dumb.

----------


## Caivu

Batwoman XXX is officially casting:

5a2b354690c4b-unnamed.jpg

Here's a look at the roles:

Screenshot_20171208-194112.jpg

Screenshot_20171208-193713.jpg

Nocturna and Red Alice are... concerning, but people more in the know than me trust the studio not to do anything stupid here.

----------


## Man-Thing

Oh man I never even got around to watching the Justice League XXX parody

----------


## Caivu

> Oh man I never even got around to watching the Justice League XXX parody


From what I hear, it's legitimately good. As in, not just by porn standards.

----------


## Caivu

This could have some major implications:

Screenshot_20171211-213641.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Cottony Hotchkiss:

Screenshot_20171212-132228.jpg

----------


## Man-Thing

> This could have some major implications:
> 
> Screenshot_20171211-213641.jpg


Hmm... I wonder if this has anything to do with whatever Bruce dying again storyline they're cooking long-term over on the main Bats title is...

----------


## Caivu

> Hmm... I wonder if this has anything to do with whatever Bruce dying again storyline they're cooking long-term over on the main Bats title is...


Maybe, but I was thinking more in terms of non-comic appearances, especially live action. That's what Johns is involved with now, and what the first person was tweeting about.

----------


## Caivu

So, Batwoman made a surprise appearance in Ragman #3 today... and apparently they didn't recognize each other. Even though we know from 'Tec that the Unknowns arc still happened. Sigh.

----------


## Man-Thing

> So, Batwoman made a surprise appearance in Ragman #3 today... and apparently they didn't recognize each other. Even though we know from 'Tec that the Unknowns arc still happened. Sigh.


...wah?!

----------


## Man-Thing

> Maybe, but I was thinking more in terms of non-comic appearances, especially live action. That's what Johns is involved with now, and what the first person was tweeting about.


Oh! Well shit, yeah, that does have some possible implications...

----------


## Caivu

Regarding the Kate/Jacob scene in today's 'Tec: I had a thought that it's possible he was a hallucination, and that Batwoman #10 could confirm this. If so, it would almost certainly mean that whatever she does in #973 will be due to brainwashing.

----------


## Caivu

Marc Laming got his comp copies of Batwoman #10, and shared a bit:

IMG_20171214_094149.jpg

I love the strategic glare.

----------


## Caivu

By Bora Arslanbulut:

Screenshot_20171214-132753.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Batwoman #11 variant cover by Michael Cho:

IMG_20171214_133136.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Simon Turner:

Screenshot_20171214-173904.jpg

----------


## Barbatos666

> So, Batwoman made a surprise appearance in Ragman #3 today... and apparently they didn't recognize each other. Even though we know from 'Tec that the Unknowns arc still happened. Sigh.


To be fair that run was terrible and I dont blame anyone for not acknowledging it.

----------


## Caivu

> To be fair that run was terrible and I dont blame anyone for not acknowledging it.


Terrible or not, it's still canon, so to have it treated as not here (at least with no explanation), is not so great. Especially when Kate has almost no contradictory retcons associated with her; it makes it all the more glaring.

----------


## Caivu

By Sarah Diamond  (aka Miss Monocle):

Screenshot_20171215-101707.jpg

----------


## Caivu

_Another_ delay:

Screenshot_20171215-185256.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Art by Art Thibert, colors by Jeremy Scully:

Screenshot_20171217-090924.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Encouraging news!

Batwoman Vol. 1 was #12 on November's bestselling graphic novel list!

Screenshot_20171217-101906.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Sketch by Fernando Blanco:

IMG_20171217_190801.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Batwoman is officially below 20k in print sales for November, having dropped almost 1400 units from October. It's beyond ridiculous that it's still not stabilized; it's too good a series for that.

More positively, the first TBP sold 3k, which is decent, and more than the vol 1s of some other Rebirth titles that have been cancelled or given a new lease. So that's somewhat encouraging, I guess.

----------


## Caivu

IMG_20171218_151457.jpg

*BATWOMAN #13*

Written by Marguerite Bennett, art by Fernando Blanco, cover by Dan Panosian, variant cover by Lee Bermejo.

"The Fall of the House of Kane" part one! After her deadly trip around the world hunting the infamous Many Arms of Death, Batwoman returns to her childhood home in Brussels, the site of her most brutal losses and memories. As the clock begins to tick on a new cycle of violence, Kate must overcome her haunted past to prevent an attack more terrible than any before!

32 pages, $3.99, in stores on March 21.

----------


## Man-Thing

Oh now doesn't that look interesting  :Smile: 

Still trying to nail down a reading order. Remind me, have there been any major timeskips in Tec yet?

----------


## Caivu

> Oh now doesn't that look interesting 
> 
> Still trying to nail down a reading order. Remind me, have there been any major timeskips in Tec yet?


None yet. I think issue #12 and onward will definitely take place after "Fall of the Batmen", but we'll see.

----------


## Caivu

By Sean Forney:

IMG_20171217_110432.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Okay, we'll see how it ends up playing out, but issue #10 did establish that Kate's taking a harder line toward criminals now, or at least is more willing to stop them for good. And it seems to be within reason, too; she's not trigger-happy.

I like that this change wasn't entirely due to just one thing.

----------


## Man-Thing

Enjoyed the issue! Like that it sort of seeds in parallel with Batwoman potentially taking someone out in Tec here in a few issues. 

I'm also seeing a broader theme of loved ones in Kate's life trying to mold her into what they perceive to be her greater potential. Her father, Safiyah, Batman, etc...

----------


## Caivu

> I'm also seeing a broader theme of loved ones in Kate's life trying to mold her into what they perceive to be her greater potential. Her father, Safiyah, Batman, etc...


For sure. That goes back all the way to her New 52 #1.

----------


## Caivu

Fernando Blanco WIP:

Screenshot_20171221-135003.jpg

Seems pretty spoilery.

----------


## Fantastic Alice

Just finished off Victim Syndicate and abput to read volume 3. I really am impressed with how good Detective comics is. It really fills the promise of not only what we all would want a lesbian superherp to be but for Batwoman to be. As many faults as Batman has he does stick to seeimg her as an equal. And Batwoman has many of the same monolithic traits as Batman.

She can be very cold. Even Pre Burnside Batgirl had a much more youthful and relatable vibe to it. It make Batwoman really stand on her own and not come off as a sidekick.

Also I think I'm in love with how Tyniom writes. He still gets under both Bats even though they try to stay as Islands.

It's some of the best comic writing I've seen in ages. I own the first 4 Batwoman Solo trades, the expanded new Batwoman tpb of Elegy, and have every rebirth trade with her including Monster Men. Worth every penny.

The only thin I don't own is the post debacle V1 solo issues.


Oh and I have yet to get the Bombshells trades as I am hoping for an omnibus version. Honestly they should do a spinoff after Unites gets underway. Perhaps a Gotham Central '40s with Batgirls as a backup. I find with Bombshells that it's such a perfectly realized team book that it's hard to imagine a additional title. But The Adventures Of Black Bat would be great. DC is making some great choices with elseworlds lately. I think they need to keep takong small risks and it will work.


I guess that was my introduction! Hallo! GutenTag.

----------


## Caivu

Welcome!

I totally agree with you about how Tynion writes her; he understands her very well. Bennett does, too. in fact, that's the case with most people who have written her, even a small bit, and that consistency is pretty powerful.

----------


## RedBird

> Oh and I have yet to get the Bombshells trades as I am hoping for an omnibus version. Honestly they should do a spinoff after Unites gets underway. Perhaps a Gotham Central '40s with Batgirls as a backup. I find with Bombshells that it's such a perfectly realized team book that it's hard to imagine a additional title. But The Adventures Of Black Bat would be great. DC is making some great choices with elseworlds lately. I think they need to keep takong small risks and it will work.
> 
> I guess that was my introduction! Hallo! GutenTag.


Same here, I'm eagerly awaiting the trades for bombshells as well, even with a lot of dark imagery and topics the title remains very high spirited and heartwarming throughout, its what also helped solidify my interest in Kate, at least enough to buy her first rebirth volume. I'm also kinda loving almost all the else worlds titles going on at the moment, most of those are even more entertaining than the canon line.

Also Hello!  :Smile:

----------


## Oberon

Nice comments.   Batwoman is nearly my favorite DC character.

I do take exception that "all" of her loved ones are trying to mold her life.

The only one that doesn't, Bette, however

Seems to be treated the most shabbily (at times) by Kate.

----------


## Caivu

I'm not completely sure what Vinimates are, but there's a Batwoman one set for August of next year:

Screenshot_20171222-155715.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Gail Simone seems to ship Kate and Scandal Savage...

Screenshot_20171222-160424.jpg

For the record, I'd read both those situations.

----------


## Caivu

By Andrea Vásquez:

70d5fd9a-6183-4b43-9069-b7dd71e62726.jpg

----------


## Fantastic Alice

> Gail Simone seems to ship Kate and Scandal Savage...
> 
> Screenshot_20171222-160424.jpg
> 
> For the record, I'd read both those situations.


Same. Kate in a secret six situation. Her, scandal, and 4+ other characters she woild recognise as villaims. I could see it being a take down of Kate's occasional ego and her feelings for Scandal coild be what helps her to see  that it's not all black and white. And Catman is one of the 'villains' Because it's Catman.

----------


## Caivu

> Same. Kate in a secret six situation. Her, scandal, and 4+ other characters she woild recognise as villaims. I could see it being a take down of Kate's occasional ego and her feelings for Scandal coild be what helps her to see  that it's not all black and white. And Catman is one of the 'villains' Because it's Catman.


As far as the Six go, the only ones I think she'd actually dislike for sure would be Bane, Deadshot, and Ragdoll.

----------


## Caivu

11 years ago...

IMG_20171225_095935.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Well, in the running gag that is "Damian and Kate don't speak to each other," there was partial credit this week in Teen Titans:

Screenshot_20171227-130236.jpg

----------


## Fantastic Alice

Wow. I've been reading Bombshells. As many know The Waynes had a child much later than the Kanes. This means Batwoman was able to save Bruce's parents and Bruce will have a happier life. Perhaps he will be Batman one Day and perhaps he will find a Flying Grayson ready to leave his parents' tent and be Robin.... as I assume they are all alive and well....unless the Court of Owls still exists.....

But in the late 30s .... Batwoman found her Robin. I instantly knew what was coming when I heard the name.

And after Jason died I.... Good Goddess it was such a gut punch for Batwoman to lose Jason Todd. Thankfully the stories get brighter after that and really focus in on Jewish Pride which helped my crying and bawling.

But damn, this is the perfect example of what I want my ideal comic book to be. Action, Drama, and lots of very well written beautiful romance between women and other women and a few of them girl boy romances you all like ;p But It's written so well and who I am as a lesbian is so represented in the romance I was actually a little bummed out that Big  Barda isn't with Mr.Miracle! That's how well it is written... I would have favored a straight romance in that case because I was so well represented I could not only enjoy Constantine and Zatanna but actually have my own 'ships I prefer.

And Kate is with Mags. As it always and forever should be! I love Rene but I feel like Mags is her Steve Trevor, her Lois Lane. I will always love Batwoman but I will never not smile when she is with Mags.

She's even snuck into my Doctor Who fiction.

But I love this series.

----------


## Caivu

I started Bombshells during the six or so months where it and Injustice were the only places to see Kate. I liked it, and still do, but I've fallen off reading it a little now that she's firmly back in the main universe. I need to maybe fix that.

----------


## Caivu

By Anne-lise Nalin:

IMG_20171228_141806.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Riley Rossmo:

Screenshot_20171227-151829.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Chad Heinrich:

Screenshot_20171228-143400.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Royal Dunlap:

Attachment 60155

----------


## Caivu

By Alexandra Jury:

Screenshot_20171229-021331.jpg

----------


## Caivu

I heard something about a store being scheduled to get a shipment of the new Multiverse figures on December 29, so they might already be available. Or will be soon. Probably. Hopefully.

----------


## Caivu

So, there were at least two Best Comics of 2017 lists that included the current series, but I can't find either one. Sigh.

----------


## Caivu

Okay, as if the series wasn't awesome enough already, this was the dedication in the front of the Vol. 1 TPB:

IMG_20180102_002838.jpg

Simple, but that's very sweet.

----------


## Caivu

By Joe Dunn:

Screenshot_20180103-181107.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Chris Johnson:

dd10a542-1123-4000-9bbc-e5ac03f0353f.jpg

----------


## JudasFanny616

I'm new to reading Batwoman stuff, but my god i lover her role in Detective Comics. She almost steals the spotlight. Great character and leader.

----------


## Caivu

> I'm new to reading Batwoman stuff, but my god i lover her role in Detective Comics. She almost steals the spotlight. Great character and leader.


Welcome!  :Smile: 

Yeah, Tynion gets her very well, and has done a great job of integrating and expanding on the work of her previous major writers. Both big and small things. That level of consistency is a big part of making her feel like a real person, and one of the reasons I love her so much.

----------


## Caivu

Fernando Blanco WIP:

IMG_20180105_120201.jpg

----------


## Oberon

Kate is the only/best reason I read Detective.  Yeah, she is the light to me there. I don't dislike the other characters; I just haven't glommed onto them as much as I did Kate (and BETTE!)


"I came for Batwoman. I stayed for Bette"

----------


## Caivu

Gotta post this quick while it's still today:

Screenshot_20180105-204029.jpg

Don't know what specific calendar this is, but several people on Instagram have it.

----------


## Caivu

> Kate is the only/best reason I read Detective.  Yeah, she is the light to me there. I don't dislike the other characters; I just haven't glommed onto them as much as I did Kate (and BETTE!)


Same, pretty much.

----------


## Caivu

Tattoo by Milla Sipola:

Screenshot_20180106-165423.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Nick Justus:

Screenshot_20180104-135809.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Nestor Pitu Vergara:

Screenshot_20180107-032117.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Fernando Blanco WIP:

IMG_20180107_082551.jpg

----------


## Caivu

More Blanco WIP:

IMG_20180108_114810.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Alvaro Martínez WIP:

Screenshot_20180109-104005.jpg

Looks like Dick, Jason, and Barbara are there.

----------


## Caivu

More Blanco WIP:

IMG_20180109_115005.jpg

Not liking those manga speed lines.

----------


## TomServofan

> More Blanco WIP:
> 
> IMG_20180109_115005.jpg
> 
> Not liking those manga speed lines.


Your right it does look like manga speed lines.

----------


## Caivu

The finished Cottony Hotchkiss piece from a long while ago:

0d9ff751-32da-4acd-8928-ad7c2dc398f7.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Detective Comics #974 WIP by Philippe Briones:

Screenshot_20180110-001729.jpg

Screenshot_20180110-001704.jpg

----------


## millernumber1

> Alvaro Martínez WIP:
> 
> Screenshot_20180109-104005.jpg
> 
> Looks like Dick, Jason, and Barbara are there.


Any idea which issue this is? I want Martinez back so badly...




> Detective Comics #974 WIP by Philippe Briones:
> 
> Screenshot_20180110-001729.jpg
> 
> Screenshot_20180110-001704.jpg


Oooh, this looks awesome! Looks like Carmen Carnero is going to have some competition for "favorite guest artist on Tec". Though unless Briones gets to draw some awesome Steph, Carnero will have a pretty solid point in her favor.

----------


## Caivu

> Any idea which issue this is? I want Martinez back so badly...


Probably #975. That's what he's next credited on, and it looks like they're arriving for the "trial".

----------


## millernumber1

> Probably #975. That's what he's next credited on, and it looks like they're arriving for the "trial".


Ah, yes. I clearly need to get back into editing the Steph wikia, so I'll be on top of these things.  :Smile:

----------


## Caivu

So, I didn't much care for the Kate/Jacob scene today, since it felt like it was trying to milk extra conflict and suspicion at the expense of a rational character decision. I find it hard to believe Kate would sidetrack in the middle of an emergency to meet Jacob for a reason that, according to the scene, she didn't seem to know beforehand. It was a rare misstep, especially since there's enough raw material in this story that it's not needed.

It also doesn't help that the  scene highlighted that Tec!Jacob and Batwoman!Jacob have yet to be reconciled.

----------


## Caivu

By Bintuo Edan:

Screenshot_20180109-104724.jpg

----------


## Katana500

> Alvaro Martínez WIP:
> 
> Screenshot_20180109-104005.jpg
> 
> Looks like Dick, Jason, and Barbara are there.


Does this mean the Batfamily will be the judges or something?

----------


## Caivu

> Does this mean the Batfamily will be the judges or something?


More accurately they'll probably be the jury, but yeah.

----------


## Caivu

The new Multiverse figure is finally available! 

Here's one site that I know has it, and which was recommended:

https://paulmartstore.com/products/d...twoman-rebirth

Apparently, she's the only figure from this new wave available right now.

----------


## millernumber1

> The new Multiverse figure is finally available! 
> 
> Here's one site that I know has it, and which was recommended:
> 
> https://paulmartstore.com/products/d...twoman-rebirth
> 
> Apparently, she's the only figure from this new wave available right now.


Aw, man, she has the buzzcut. (And just to repeat myself, I don't like buzzcuts on anybody, not just Kate.  :Smile: )

But it's nice to have a good figure of great characters!

----------


## Assam

> More accurately they'll probably be the jury, but yeah.


I'm still really hoping Judge Bruce, Cassandra Von Karma and Phoenix Drake.  :Embarrassment: 

Also, since every Batgirl and every other Robin is gonna be here, it's probable Damian will be showing up too.




> Aw, man, she has the buzzcut. (And just to repeat myself, I don't like buzzcuts on anybody, not just Kate. )


Guess that means you would have hated how I looked in middle school.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Caivu

> Aw, man, she has the buzzcut. (And just to repeat myself, I don't like buzzcuts on anybody, not just Kate. )


You know I like it, but even just from a physical standpoint, it's nice to have a "clean" head on which to do custom sculpts.

----------


## Caivu

Batwoman #13 variant cover by Lee Bermejo:

DTSpo3VVAAA-qlE.jpg large.jpg

----------


## Katana500

> More accurately they'll probably be the jury, but yeah.


I study Law, and I totally forgot about a jury! Thats a bad sign haha! 

Yeah now i think about it that would make more sense  :Smile:

----------


## Caivu

A bit from issue #11, by Godlewski and Rauch:

Screenshot_20180111-200821.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Daniel Kamarudin:

batwoman_by_thedurrrrian-dbzup7y.jpg

----------


## Caivu

More 'Tec #974 WIP from Philippe Briones:

Screenshot_20180113-160623.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Oliver Pulumbarit:

IMG_20180113_103644.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Detective Comics #976 (probably) WIP by Javier Fernandez:

Screenshot_20180114-090258.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Some pieces by Ted Naifeh:

IMG_20180114_160152.jpg

IMG_20180114_155612.jpg

IMG_20180114_160145.jpg

----------


## Caivu

And one more:

9b260da0-a188-40fa-bec6-9cac5b26d433.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Alfredo Frangella:

Screenshot_20180114-142345.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Fernando Blanco WIP:

IMG_20180116_103100.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Alvaro Martínez WIP:

Screenshot_20180116-111717.jpg

----------


## Caivu

I had some problems with the way Kate was portrayed in today's issue. It was mostly a matter of degree; it's not a problem that Kate was beating herself over her mistakes, but it was a bit much here, to the point of irrationality. That was odd.

Loved Godlewski's take on Kate, though: lean and mean.

----------


## millernumber1

> I had some problems with the way Kate was portrayed in today's issue. It was mostly a matter of degree; it's not a problem that Kate was beating herself over her mistakes, but it was a bit much here, to the point of irrationality. That was odd.
> 
> Loved Godlewski's take on Kate, though: lean and mean.


I think it doesn't help that Bennett has set a non-linear storytelling template for the book that is not helpful for really getting into the motivations of the characters. I know you don't agree with me here, because we went all around on it, but I still think Bennett's structural choices are incredibly badly made because I can't get into Kate's motivations. Now, non-linear structure can be done really well - Batwoman: Go and Cutter both did it very well - but Bennett is not Rucka, and not taking the steps she needs to take to get on that level. (I know this is a Perkins issue, but I think she's writing to fit what Bennett has been doing).

----------


## Caivu

> I think it doesn't help that Bennett has set a non-linear storytelling template for the book that is not helpful for really getting into the motivations of the characters. I know you don't agree with me here, because we went all around on it, but I still think Bennett's structural choices are incredibly badly made because I can't get into Kate's motivations.


You're right that I don't agree, because no one's motives are hard to suss out. I don't understand how that's difficult.

----------


## millernumber1

> You're right that I don't agree, because no one's motives are hard to suss out. I don't understand how that's difficult.


Well, you said that her level of response didn't make sense. That, to me, is part of motivation - the level of reaction.

----------


## Caivu

> Well, you said that her level of response didn't make sense. That, to me, is part of motivation - the level of reaction.


That's different from it being a total mystery, though. The level might be a bit out of whack, but the cause is still right in line with how Kate acts. And there are ways it can still make sense, like the fact that this issue has to take place pretty much immediately after the last arc, where Kate's success against Scarecrow was quickly muffled by the realization that she's still on Safiyah's leash to an extent.

----------


## millernumber1

> That's different from it being a total mystery, though. The level might be a bit out of whack, but the cause is still right in line with how Kate acts. And there are ways it can still make sense, like the fact that this issue has to take place pretty much immediately after the last arc, where Kate's success against Scarecrow was quickly muffled by the realization that she's still on Safiyah's leash to an extent.


I wasn't arguing it was a total mystery - I was arguing that it made it harder to engage emotionally with, because it didn't quite fit with the reader's reaction. I was just going with your own response, and providing my expansion of why I thought you had that response.

----------


## Caivu

> I wasn't arguing it was a total mystery - I was arguing that it made it harder to engage emotionally with, because it didn't quite fit with the reader's reaction.


I don't think that's the case though? I still got the point. Maybe I'm confused, I dunno.

----------


## millernumber1

> I don't think that's the case though? I still got the point. Maybe I'm confused, I dunno.


It's okay. I was just going off of your not-completely-on-board-with-how-intense-Kate's-freakout-is post. I mean, you obviously are enjoying the series a lot more with me, but I thought we had a bit of agreement at least that the level of motivational intensity wasn't quite conveyed correctly, and was positing my theories on why that was.

----------


## Caivu

> It's okay. I was just going off of your not-completely-on-board-with-how-intense-Kate's-freakout-is post. I mean, you obviously are enjoying the series a lot more with me, but I thought we had a bit of agreement at least that the level of motivational intensity wasn't quite conveyed correctly, and was positing my theories on why that was.


I just don't think it's due to non-linearity, as you said. If anything, that _helps_ it. I don't want to get the entire Coryana back story in one enormous 4-issue chunk or whatever.

I guess what I'm more concerned about is things squaring up between this series and 'Tec. There's still time for that to happen, since apparently this is all happening before she finds out Tim's alive, but it's getting a little concerning because there's so much ground to cover. It's hard to articulate.

----------


## millernumber1

> I just don't think it's due to non-linearity, as you said. If anything, that _helps_ it. I don't want to get the entire Coryana back story in one enormous 4-issue chunk or whatever.
> 
> I guess what I'm more concerned about is things squaring up between this series and 'Tec. There's still time for that to happen, since apparently this is all happening before she finds out Tim's alive, but it's getting a little concerning because there's so much ground to cover. It's hard to articulate.


I mean, since I'm not as invested in this series as I wish I were, I'm not as concerned about it fitting in with Tec. But since you are invested heavily in both, I can see how that's something hanging in the background.

(I still think that having the epilogue issue for Many Arms of Death instead of integrating it through flashbacks is a massive mistake.  :Wink:  )

----------


## Man-Thing

Always happy to see more Prof Pyg. Hoping the implications that he's in contact with Beth bear fruit and mean he's showing up again later.

----------


## Caivu

Scott Godlewski WIP:

IMG_20180117_120711.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Tanner Saltzman:

Screenshot_20180117-211602.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Craig Cermak:

9942dd6a-5c16-43ce-91b3-174022c14e77.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Denis Medri:

IMG_20180118_120143.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Batwoman has just been nominated for a GLAAD Award for Outstanding Comic Book!  :Big Grin:

----------


## millernumber1

I am very curious - considering the conflict in Tec ahead seems to center around Kate killing Basil, do you think Kate is right to do it, given what we know?

----------


## Katana500

> I am very curious - considering the conflict in Tec ahead seems to center around Kate killing Basil, do you think Kate is right to do it, given what we know?


Im not really sure. I mean what Clayface is doing isnt all that different from Batmans other rogues when they go on a rampage and kill many people and they never get killed. Put Batman has always been looser on his code to his family. Im interested to see what happens

----------


## Caivu

> I am very curious - considering the conflict in Tec ahead seems to center around Kate killing Basil, do you think Kate is right to do it, given what we know?


To any outside observer, the rational conclusion is that Clayface is too far gone after the Mud Room got dumped on him. Whether or not that's actually correct, killing him to stop further destruction and death would be justified based on what she knows.

----------


## Caivu

By Dan Mora:

IMG_20180120_222451.jpg

----------


## Harry McTell

> Detective Comics #974 WIP by Philippe Briones:
> 
> Attachment 60574





> By Bintuo Edan:
> 
> Attachment 60608


Both very good...

----------


## Caivu

By S.K. Kramer:

94e6cb68-d280-4784-8146-f5b7395fb359.jpg

----------


## scary harpy

> Always happy to see more Prof Pyg. Hoping the implications that he's in contact with Beth bear fruit and mean he's showing up again later.


I enjoyed this issue too.

A nice, straight-forward Bat story. I liked Julia's presence.

----------


## Caivu

> I enjoyed this issue too.
> 
> A nice, straight-forward Bat story. I liked Julia's presence.


I still don't really care for her role in this issue. She was just kinda... there. And after being absent for 6 issues, that's not great. I at least wish there had been more detail about the side missions she's apparently been doing, or about when exactly she got captured.

----------


## Caivu

Alvaro Martínez WIP:

Screenshot_20180121-155036.jpg

Dunno who the big dude she's standing on is.

----------


## Man-Thing

I've been thinking about the broader implications of Pyg having interacted with Alice. Depending on _when_ that happened, there's some _interesting_ stuff implied there. It's not brought up much, but Pyg has deep ties to Spyral. He was one of their agents, and was driven mad by Doctor Dedalus, and his son was the one running the training-facility-masquerading-as-a-young-women's-boarding-school where everyone was dressed as the original Bat Girl. Depending on when Alice made contact with him, she might very well have been in contact with Kathy Kane _the Elder_, the _original_ Batwoman. This could, if you think about it, play into the themes of Kate losing her place in things that's been going on in this Batwoman/Tec run(s) via the original holder of the mantle showing up and challenging Kate over whether she has any right to the title.

----------


## millernumber1

I'm really curious what Kate fans think of her in Nightwing: The New Order. I mean, McCarthy's art of her is gorgeous, even though she's not in her usual uniform, and I think her voice is pretty solid so far, but I'm not as good a judge of Kate's voice as more dedicated fans.

----------


## Caivu

> I'm really curious what Kate fans think of her in Nightwing: The New Order. I mean, McCarthy's art of her is gorgeous, even though she's not in her usual uniform, and I think her voice is pretty solid so far, but I'm not as good a judge of Kate's voice as more dedicated fans.


I think she's acting fair for the circumstances. She's not evil, and just doing her job. Part of an immoral system, but so was Dick, and even he hasn't made a complete 180.

As for her actual voice... it's fine? I'd have to check again, but I don't recall anything super distinctive. Main U Kate has a very odd way of talking if you really pay attention to it; not any one particular thing, but an amalgamation of stuff. Bennett has made her noticeably more Southern (especially when drugged), but even that has precedence in her other main writers' work.

----------


## Caivu

> I've been thinking about the broader implications of Pyg having interacted with Alice. Depending on _when_ that happened, there's some _interesting_ stuff implied there. It's not brought up much, but Pyg has deep ties to Spyral. He was one of their agents, and was driven mad by Doctor Dedalus, and his son was the one running the training-facility-masquerading-as-a-young-women's-boarding-school where everyone was dressed as the original Bat Girl. Depending on when Alice made contact with him, she might very well have been in contact with Kathy Kane _the Elder_, the _original_ Batwoman. This could, if you think about it, play into the themes of Kate losing her place in things that's been going on in this Batwoman/Tec run(s) via the original holder of the mantle showing up and challenging Kate over whether she has any right to the title.


I was actually surprised his Spyral background wasn't referred to, since this is a spy story of sorts.

I do like the general premise of this. I've thought of the original Kathy coming back from the dead for just what you discribe, though it's a rather pulpy premise for what the series is. I'd much rather Kate get her mojo back by taking out her current frustrations on Knife's face.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Caivu

Well, looks like we now know who's siding with Kate after this all shakes out:

IMG_20180122_150425.jpg

Not sure the issue, but it's by Eddy Barrows, Eber Ferreira, and Adriano Lucas.

Makes sense to me. She and Luke are friends, JPV and Luke have bonded as well, and JPV is a type of soldier already.

----------


## Katana500

Awesome! Im glad batwing and azreal arent just being dropped.

When are the full solicits released? Do you know

----------


## Caivu

> Awesome! Im glad batwing and azreal arent just being dropped.
> 
> When are the full solicits released? Do you know ��


Should be in about 45 minutes, unless someone can find the page on ComicsContinuum.

----------


## Caivu

And here's the cover and solicit for issue #14:

IMG_20180122_153149.jpg

IMG_20180122_153155.jpg

----------


## Oberon

Man-Thing said: where everyone was dressed as the original Bat Girl. 

But you meant the original BatWoman costume; the yellow and red thing.

----------


## Man-Thing

Ah, my mistake. And also that teaser image and the new solicit are ace! Glad to see Alice is back again finally  :Smile:

----------


## Caivu

Alice being back and almost certainly working for TMAoD very strongly implies that they turned her again, which... _damn._ I know they want to hurt Kate as badly as possible, but that would be especially vicious.

----------


## millernumber1

> Alice being back and almost certainly working for TMAoD very strongly implies that they turned her again, which... _damn._ I know they want to hurt Kate as badly as possible, but that would be especially vicious.


I'm not happy about Beth/Alice being evil again. Frown.

----------


## Caivu

> I'm not happy about Beth/Alice being evil again. Frown.


Well, at least it seems like a similar deal with Clayface: done against her will. Though hopefully without the same outcome.

----------


## millernumber1

> Well, at least it seems like a similar deal with Clayface: done against her will. Though hopefully without the same outcome.


I don't have the same faith in Bennett that I do with Tynion. If she kills off Beth/Alice, that is a narrative choice I think is seriously misjudged. But I hope I am wrong.

----------


## Caivu

> I don't have the same faith in Bennett that I do with Tynion. If she kills off Beth/Alice, that is a narrative choice I think is seriously misjudged. But I hope I am wrong.


I don't think you have anything to worry about there. Kate's already killed Alice once, or at least believes she did; I highly doubt she'd do it again without an extremely good reason, and Bennett knows that.

----------


## Bat-Meal

Speaking of Beth, I wonder if we'll ever get to see Batman's thoughts on his other cousin.  We know from that one flashback that Kate and Bruce were at the very least reasonably close, what about Beth and Bruce.  

Or does he simply not care story wise - because Alice is a Batwoman rogue and so far cannot venture outside of that series.

----------


## millernumber1

> I don't think you have anything to worry about there. Kate's already killed Alice once, or at least believes she did; I highly doubt she'd do it again without an extremely good reason, and Bennett knows that.


That's why it would be misjudged. But I hope, very much, that you're right.

----------


## Caivu

#973 spoilers...

*spoilers:*
I'm mostly satisfied with how Kate shooting Clayface played out. It's weird that she hid the info about the rifle last issue but was so free with revealing it to Batman here, just like her detouring to meet with Jacob in the middle of an emergency was weird. But otherwise, it was a pretty clear case of justifiable homicide.

I was worried Kate would outright murder him. She didn't. She waited until a cure was tried. She waited to see if Basil could hold himself together after the cure, and he couldn't. She didn't come off as bloodthirsty or vengeful, which I was also worried about. And though it came at the expense of some drama, I liked that she was convinced that she might have to resort to this. Not eager to, but accepting of it and not treating it lightly. And informing Batman of the possibility rather than just doing it out of the blue. She even wanted to protect Cass from seeing it, so she's not heartless, either.

The Batfamily might think differently, but legally and morally, I think she's pretty much in the clear here.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Bat-Meal

*spoilers:*
Near as I can tell it was a collection of miscommunication. Clayface was going to turn back to clay form no matter what, Dr October says as much to Cass, due to a spring type reaction from compressing too much mass - but no one tells this to Batwoman. Batwoman mentions to Batman that basically for the gun to work she has to take the shot when he's shrunken down (no one for obvious reasons mentions this to Cass) - this is probably the same thing as how Cass had to go deep into Clayface for the cure to work. All in all, it isn't clear if given enough time Clayface's mind would have cleared or not, or if the colony rifle would have worked on a super-sized rampaging Clayface and so it was a lose-lose situation.

Or another way of looking at it is - Red Robin and Batman unintentionally set the whole mess in motion by creating the Mud Room and recruiting Clayface knowing his problems.  They also recruited Batwoman knowing her history, and closeness to her father, and different methods.  

Cass, Batwoman,  the people who were in the buildings Clayface destroys, and most of all Clayface are the ones to pay the price and are left to clean-up the mess.  Part of why Batman and especially Red Robin will 'lose it' is because they know they are more than a little responsible, ultimately, for what happens and it's easier to lay *all* the blame on Batwoman than accept their own part in his downfall.  After all, she pulled the trigger, she was recruited to train Basil as a vigilante, therefore it's *all* her fault. 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Caivu

> *spoilers:*
> Near as I can tell it was a collection of miscommunication. Clayface was going to turn back to clay form no matter what, Dr October says as much to Cass, due to a spring type reaction from compressing too much mass - but no one tells this to Batwoman. Batwoman mentions to Batman that basically for the gun to work she has to take the shot when he's shrunken down (no one for obvious reasons mentions this to Cass)
> *end of spoilers*


If she knows he was going to shrink, then she'd have to know about the rest, right?




> *spoilers:*
> Part of why Batman and especially Red Robin will 'lose it' is because they know they are more than a little responsible, ultimately, for what happens and it's easier to lay *all* the blame on Batwoman than accept their own part in his downfall.  After all, she pulled the trigger, she was recruited to train Basil as a vigilante, therefore it's *all* her fault. 
> *end of spoilers*


I dunno... it'd feel a little bit skeevy if they tried to pull that in earnest.

----------


## Man-Thing

This will be a bit interesting because, from a legal standpoint, Kate's got this, I think. The mayor has made it super clear that he doesn't like Batman, doesn't like his vigilante troop, and thinks Clayface should at the very least be in prison. Kate, on the other hand, was _technically_ working with a government military agency on this one, and is probably going to be seen by the local governance as having made the correct call. The most that this little "trial" for Kate can lead to is being kicked out of the group, unless they feel the need to illegally imprison her.... which I suppose they've shown no compunction about doing to other people so hey I guess that's a possibility.

----------


## Caivu

> Kate, on the other hand, was _technically_ working with a government military agency on this one, and is probably going to be seen by the local governance as having made the correct call.


I don't think that part would even necessarily matter, honestly. Private citizens on their own can be found justified in killing someone if the criteria are met.

----------


## Man-Thing

> I don't think that part would even necessarily matter, honestly. Private citizens on their own can be found justified in killing someone if the criteria are met.


Yeah, but I'm just saying that her father stepping in and going "Yeah, after I got away from Batman's illegal detainment facility I recruited my daughter, as someone with required military training, to be an inside eye. During the Clayface incident I issued her means to deal with the situation." Even though that's not all necessarily _true_, it certainly can't hurt anything, and casts Batman in a bad (or rather, worse) light, as far as actual light, as far as various legalities are concerned.

----------


## Caivu

> Yeah, but I'm just saying that her father stepping in and going "Yeah, after I got away from Batman's illegal detainment facility I recruited my daughter, as someone with required military training, to be an inside eye. During the Clayface incident I issued her means to deal with the situation." Even though that's not all necessarily _true_, it certainly can't hurt anything, and casts Batman in a bad (or rather, worse) light, as far as actual light, as far as various legalities are concerned.


Hmm. Maybe. I don't know if that would change Akins's mind, but legally there'd not be much he could do.

----------


## Caivu

Alvaro Martínez WIP:

Screenshot_20180124-124224.jpg

----------


## Bat-Meal

> I dunno... it'd feel a little bit skeevy if they tried to pull that in earnest.


I don't think they'd do it consciously, but more an an emotional level, really I'm more talking about Tim *spoilers:*
and how his evil-future-self acts like Kate jumped out from behind some bushes and shot Clayface while he and Cass were out for coffee.
*end of spoilers*  It can feel easier to use a scapegoat for all your woes than accept any responsibility or look at the details.  I mean, another reason Tim is going to lose it is after seeing Steph likes another guy.

----------


## Caivu

> I don't think they'd do it consciously, but more an an emotional level, really I'm more talking about Tim *spoilers:*
> and how his evil-future-self acts like Kate jumped out from behind some bushes and shot Clayface while he and Cass were out for coffee.
> *end of spoilers*  It can feel easier to use a scapegoat for all your woes than accept any responsibility or look at the details.  I mean, another reason Tim is going to lose it is after seeing Steph likes another guy.


Hmm. That is a good point about Future!Tim exaggerating things a bit.

----------


## Caivu

By Daniel Tomás:

Screenshot_20180124-200827.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Batwoman #12 variant cover by Michael Cho:

IMG_20180125_142459.jpg

----------


## Caivu

The colored Daniel Tomás piece from earlier:

Screenshot_20180125-135626.jpg

----------


## millernumber1

> Batwoman #12 variant cover by Michael Cho:
> 
> IMG_20180125_142459.jpg


That is REALLY cool. I love Michael Cho's stuff. Very Darwyn Cooke.

----------


## Caivu

> That is REALLY cool. I love Michael Cho's stuff. Very Darwyn Cooke.


Yep. And possibly a sign she'll be getting out of her funk soon, since she's smiling. She _needs_ to get out of it soon, for Detective to make sense.

----------


## Caivu

By Simon Wyatt:

Screenshot_20180126-003152.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Jim Calafiore:

b7bb753b-bc87-469c-9ef6-6363f89ac6c0.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Adam Tupper:

Screenshot_20180127-213747.jpg

----------


## lalalei2001

Does anyone know if either Batwoman (Kathy Kane or Kate Kane) ever ran into Catwoman?

----------


## Caivu

> Does anyone know if either Batwoman (Kathy Kane or Kate Kane) ever ran into Catwoman?


Don't know about Kathy, but Kate has encountered jer at least twice: first in the final three issues of Batman and Robin Eternal, where they were both part of a global team assembled to take down Mother. 

Then they were both part of the "Manslaughter" arc of Batgirl and the Birds of Prey, for a similar, smaller-scale reason. Kate threatened to drop her (and Harley and Ivy) off a roof, though she got over that quick.

----------


## Aahz

> Does anyone know if either Batwoman (Kathy Kane or Kate Kane) ever ran into Catwoman?


At least in the Silver Age Kathy never met Catwoman, since Catwoman didn't appear in the Batman comics during that time (or more specifically from 1954 till 1967), that had iirc someting to do with the comics code. And I would actually claim that Batwoman was actually kind of a replacement for her as Batmans Love interest.

But Kathy actually became Catwoman in Detective Comics 318.

----------


## lalalei2001

> At least in the Silver Age Kathy never met Catwoman, since Catwoman didn't appear in the Batman comics during that time (or more specifically from 1954 till 1967), that had iirc someting to do with the comics code. And I would actually claim that Batwoman was actually kind of a replacement for her as Batmans Love interest.
> 
> But Kathy actually became Catwoman in Detective Comics 318.


That's really interesting, especially that she kept the costume! Since Selina was absent from comics at the time and when she returned it was years after going straight I kinda wonder if Kathy Kane was an alias of hers or something XD

----------


## Caivu

By Ash Madi:

Screenshot_20180129-111149.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Thiego Trajano:

Screenshot_20180129-222441.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @thepaintingpigeon on IG, after Alex Ross:

Screenshot_20180130-014542.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Admira Wijaya:

d8edf89.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Fernando Blanco WIP:

IMG_20180130_131830.jpg

Looks like the tables have turned pretty quick.

----------


## Caivu

By Korana Celan:

Screenshot_20180130-222640.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By René Córdova:

IMG_20180130_211409.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Francesca Fantini:

IMG_20180131_124725.jpg

I don't think I've ever seen this exact grouping before.

----------


## Caivu

By Neosuchia on DeviantArt:

Screenshot_20180201-095723.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Random observation: I've recently become aware that Batwoman teaming up with Spider-Gwen is a fairly popular concept. That's cool, but I'm not sure why that should be so since I really don't know much about Gwen. Is it like a buddy cop sort of situation? That'd be my guess.

----------


## Caivu

By @nizebelami on IG:

Screenshot_20180201-170500.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Douglas Skot Whitman:

Screenshot_20180201-164246.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Another by Whitman:

Screenshot_20180202-003817.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Javier Fernandez WIP:

Screenshot_20180202-095841.jpg

----------


## Oberon

Though I read more Marvel, I'm not reading anything about Spider-Gwen and in general don't like too much of this alt-universe stuff in the regular Marvel verse.

Having said that, it would seem to be that Batwoman and Spider Gwen would be very unlikely partners. Though Gwen had a Police Captain for a father she never struck me as being much like him.  Could be the difference in 'verses (Spider Gwen may have more sympathy to law and order where she comes from?)

I think Kate is too serious and Gwen not (again I am going from her Marvel verse 'incarnation' so I may not know what I'm talking about at all).

----------


## Caivu

Yeah, you hit on sort of what I was expecting: Kate being the more serious one and Gwen being less so.

----------


## Oberon

Now. . . 

if such a Marvel-DC crossover were possible (even out of continuity, which has been done before, but not in decades)

that would be a Batwoman - Spiderwoman crossover - something I'm sure I've postulated before but maybe not!

But at least up until the end of Jessica Drew's more classic look and storyline (this would be imho, around her newer solo series and the big costume change and the pregnancy thing - you get my point)

a compelling story, crossover, could be told.    They're both presenting as rather mysterious, secretive even. Kate has the military and para-military stuff and Jessica has the background of SHIELD with all that. 
 I'm sure we could find a lot of other similar and oppositional things that would make the story compelling.

----------


## Caivu

Yeah, Kate and Jessica is a more well-known pairing. They both operate independently of their male counterpart, they both have worked for a government agency, etc. They aren't as much of a personality clash, either.

----------


## Caivu

Fernando Blanco WIP:

IMG_20180203_043920.jpg

----------


## Caivu

More from Blanco:

IMG_20180203_115112.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Pui Yan Chik:

Screenshot_20180203-104832.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Tasso Brito:

Screenshot_20180204-082011.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Giulia Manzo:

Screenshot_20180204-124742.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @gdafm on IG:

Screenshot_20180204-155513.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Fernando Blanco WIP:

IMG_20180205_105956.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Batwoman #14 variant cover by Michael Cho:

STL077255.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Cameron Stewart:

2753f825-51ef-4a08-ab8d-a9a0394d2f71.jpg

Maybe they'll finally speak to each other in the trial issue.

----------


## Caivu

By Amy Reeder:

88ae526e-6608-49b6-b3ed-dcdf5e37d170.jpg

----------


## millernumber1

> By Amy Reeder:
> 
> 88ae526e-6608-49b6-b3ed-dcdf5e37d170.jpg


Man, I wish she'd come and do some Batwoman or Tec. That would be awesome.

----------


## Oberon

I liked Amy on the old Batwoman series!

----------


## Caivu

Yes, it'd be neat to have a visual connection to earlier issues.

----------


## millernumber1

> Yes, it'd be neat to have a visual connection to earlier issues.


And she's just a really good artist, too.  :Smile:

----------


## Caivu

By Anthony Diecidue:

3b24da70-938d-4c8e-9ce7-1de42d7665d9.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Ron Salas:

5d67e886-85f6-4c2b-8e11-c62fa002c3c8.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Rubén Garza:

13188357-d714-48fe-be5c-9cced47c871b.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Maya Chwan:

0a46ec61-097b-41e4-be6e-eb9631bfa04b.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Daniel Irizarri:

6a48a558-fec5-471b-93cc-4e6b653d9a0c.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Fernando Blanco WIP:

IMG_20180208_112957.jpg

----------


## Caivu

I really appreciate that Kate's not happy about killing Clayface. Accepting, but not happy. It would have been so easy to have her make some sort of quip about it, but no. Thankfully, no.

----------


## Caivu

By Psuede:

798f16f8-efef-4175-bca2-0084506d58c2.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Ihor Loboda:

65d7e165-581a-4a82-a0ed-f208424ee0e9.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By CK Russell:

f6506cb6-30dc-4a19-9e65-cf8a09ea754c.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Mayra Dias:

fba97333-39d7-4e2c-8023-160519d75633.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Fernando Blanco WIP:

IMG_20180209_130014.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Batwoman vs Purgatori by MyCKs:

IMG_20180209_153109.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Thony Silas:

df6f72cd-cf61-415d-ad0a-98920583e621.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Jim Lee:

IMG_20180205_192158.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Javier Fernandez and John Kalisz WIP from an upcoming 'Tec issue:

Screenshot_20180209-160806.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Another by Thony Silas:

Screenshot_20180209-175141.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Paperweight Jellyfish:

tumblr_p3xyhyFROx1vcmc8co1_1280.jpg

----------


## Oberon

Wow, is there a comic book of this adventure? I am a fan of Purgatori.

I collect Barbie dolls and action figures of the same size ; 1/6 scale.   I have a Purgatori figure (wings and everything) which is going into my local display at a Public Library this October: Various Vampires. "She" will be in my vignette "Court of the Vampire King", posed on a scale throne of King Tut I bought some years ago.

Now I really wish they did a 1/6 Batwoman - you've given me evil ideas!

I also, btw, have a blonde Batgirl action figure. Its actually the "Batman and Robin" tie-in, based on Alicia Silverstone's character, Barbara 'Alfred's niece'.

----------


## Caivu

> Wow, is there a comic book of this adventure? I am a fan of Purgatori.


I'm guessing no. I don't know much about Purgatori, but if she's a vampire, that'd be a fun scrap.

----------


## Caivu

DeviantArt user skphile made this awesome diorama to fit the Multiverse figure:

Screenshot_20180211-094230.jpg

Screenshot_20180211-094148.jpg

Screenshot_20180211-093356.jpg

----------


## Caivu

More of that diorama:

Screenshot_20180211-101543.jpg

Screenshot_20180211-101531.jpg

----------


## Oberon

Thanks for sharing.  I have to depend on my artistic daughter in law for similar fabrications on play/sets, etc.

----------


## Oberon

I really dig miniature models/worlds.

Last summer I went to a conference in Chicago and we toured the museum that has Colleen Moore's "Fairy Castle" in it. Exquisite!

----------


## Caivu

Models are so cool. I've been meaning to make a scale model of Kate's apartment to fit the new figure.

----------


## Caivu

By @emeeedee on IG:

Screenshot_20180211-145236.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Lorelai Brooke:

6dc5e54b-a1b9-49b6-8737-8592b22ac4e3.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Chandra Sheppard makes superhero cat plushes, and this one's Batwoman's:

Screenshot_20180211-190640.jpg

----------


## Caivu

I mentioned this in Violet's thread, but I guess it's worth noting here, too. In the Mother Panic/Batman Special, Violet has a similar (though shorter) speech to what Kate told Scarecrow in issue #9, and it's one of the most explicit parallels between the characters to date. Seeing those has been fascinating.

----------


## Caivu

Batwoman has a new character page on TV Tropes listing her supporting cast and villains, as well as herself. Still under construction, but it's pretty filled out right now.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...cters/Batwoman

----------


## Oberon

N I c e ! !

----------


## millernumber1

> Batwoman has a new character page on TV Tropes listing her supporting cast and villains, as well as herself. Still under construction, but it's pretty filled out right now.
> 
> http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...cters/Batwoman


Are you working on that?

----------


## Caivu

> Are you working on that?


I've helped with it, yes.

----------


## Oberon

I'm sure it is a true labor of love.

----------


## Caivu

> I'm sure it is a true labor of love.


I mean, yeah, but it's hardly backbreaking.

----------


## Oberon

I know, and I'm not trying to shill or anything.  You're just the best gosh-darn Kate fan ever, I think it is clear.   (I might be Bette's b-d-fan myself)

----------


## Caivu

> I know, and I'm not trying to shill or anything.  You're just the best gosh-darn Kate fan ever, I think it is clear.


That's kind of you to say, but I know for a fact I'm not.

----------


## Oberon

I go with the evidence presented. You write the most about Kate, you always have her back, story-wise, you kindly and carefully explain things to people who may need it. 

You share great stuff about her, that I don't see many others do. I think you have brutal insight into her character at times. Its almost like you consult with the team, okay that is pandering, but you 'get' Kate very well.

I'm not saying maybe there isn't someone else who isn't a better fan - - 


but I don't see who those folks are.

----------


## Caivu

By Steve Lieber:

11d35614768616533c63faef30eeb9d4.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Apri Kusbiantoro:

Screenshot_20180213-003436.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Gleb Melnikov:

Screenshot_20180213-003551.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Should probably do something for Valentine's Day, yeah?
Here's a piece featuring Kate and Renee, linked, since the artist doesn't want it reposted:

https://littlebluejaydraws.tumblr.co...february-circa

----------


## Caivu

Oh, and also: #BatwomanWasRight

----------


## Oberon

As usual I have not caught up with this latest one.  But based on the talk, my Oberonificant theory is:

the plot is to eventually spin out Kate from the team in Detective. She will be exclusively in Batwoman, but probably moving out of the 'Tec story. Or at least for an arc or two. (wait to see fan/reader reaction?).

Possibly other suitable malcontents will join her in BW, or at least have a spin or two there.   And... hopefully her own book will move back towards the kind of arcs her first book had.  More supernatural or seemingly/semi supernatural.

And of course more Bette.   Anyone want to 'bet' me?

----------


## Caivu

By GeersArt:

IMG_20180215_085023.jpg

----------


## millernumber1

> As usual I have not caught up with this latest one.  But based on the talk, my Oberonificant theory is:
> 
> the plot is to eventually spin out Kate from the team in Detective. She will be exclusively in Batwoman, but probably moving out of the 'Tec story. Or at least for an arc or two. (wait to see fan/reader reaction?).
> 
> Possibly other suitable malcontents will join her in BW, or at least have a spin or two there.   And... hopefully her own book will move back towards the kind of arcs her first book had.  More supernatural or seemingly/semi supernatural.
> 
> And of course more Bette.   Anyone want to 'bet' me?


I think it really depends on what the conclusion of Batmen Eternal is, whether the Batwoman title holds its numbers or continues to drop, and whether Tynion leaves the book or not.

So...no bets on anything right now.  :Frown:

----------


## Caivu

Fernando Blanco WIP:

IMG_20180215_115201.jpg

----------


## Caivu

The current series launched a year ago today!

679828634ec47e39bf556c9c3a689354_xl.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Nebur Canyuel:

Screenshot_20180214-205911.jpg

----------


## Oberon

Happy Birthday, Kate and Crew!

----------


## Caivu

By Jaex Addams/ ATO Studios:

Screenshot_20180216-104951.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Keith Mackey:

Screenshot_20180214-210957.jpg

----------


## Caivu

And the same, colored:

Screenshot_20180216-132103.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Apri Kusbiantoro:

Screenshot_20180216-203716.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Rod Reis:

BWRodReis.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Screenshot_20180217-105601.jpg

(Based, of course, on Steve Epting's cover to Batwoman: Rebirth #1)

----------


## Caivu

By Greg Louryan:

Screenshot_20180217-181329.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @swabluonacloud on IG:

Screenshot_20180217-201546.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Carla Wyzgala:

Screenshot_20180217-234738.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Luisa Leal:

Screenshot_20180218-164845.jpg

----------


## Caivu

I don't like posting art without credit, but this was cute:

Screenshot_20180216-171122.jpg

I add it when I find it.

----------


## Caivu

By Yukiko Kayutsu:

IMG_20180213_204725.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @count_ruvel on IG:

Screenshot_20180219-134225.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Anthony Le Duc Mergeay:

IMG_20180219_171923.jpg

----------


## Caivu

This part from the issue #12 preview made me roll my eyes:

Screenshot_20180219-112001.jpg

I don't know if that's just Kate being modest (she did say something similar to Alfred just before Zero Year), but c'mon. You don't get to be one of the top cadets at West Point if you slack in your studies. Heck, you don't even get in if that's the case.

----------


## Caivu

Bombshells is ending.

----------


## Oberon

I've not read this series. I know some folks have occasionally posted pictures of characters like Bette, in there, but I chose not to partake of.

I'm happy it had so many fans and hope you enjoyed it well.

----------


## Assam

> Bombshells is ending.


Of course this is happening before Cass gets anything more than a cameo; not sure why I expected anything else. 

Probably never gonna look at this series now.

----------


## Caivu

> Of course this is happening before Cass gets anything more than a cameo; not sure why I expected anything else. 
> 
> Probably never gonna look at this series now.


Wow, how did I know _that_ would be your takeaway?  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Caivu

batwoman15.jpg

*BATWOMAN #15*

Written by Marguerite Bennett, art by Fernando Blanco, cover by Dan Panosian, variant cover by Rafael Grampa. 
"The Fall of the House of Kane" part three! A lethal plague fills the skies of Gotham City as the Many Arms of Death throttle Batwoman's hold on the city! As their leader Alice begins her deadly endgame, Batwoman realizes that if she cannot stop her sister -- Batman will.

32 pages, $3.99, in stores on May 16

----------


## Caivu

detective981.jpg

*Detective Comics #981*

Written by James Tynion IV, art and cover by Alvaro Martinez and Raul Fernandez, cover by Eddy Barrows, variant cover by Rafael Albuquerque.

"Batmen Eternal" finale! The unbelievable conclusion of James Tynion IV's Batman epic! It's the last stand of the Gotham Knights, fighting a monster they helped inspire...and a destiny they won't accept! What will become of the greatest crime-fighting team Gotham City ever saw? 

32 pages, $2.99, in stores on May 23.

----------


## Caivu

By Gilbert Monsanto:

BATWOMAN_by_gammaknight.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Another issue, another instance of Kate's tattoos being AWOL...  :Mad:

----------


## Man-Thing

Well that was an issue! Not quite how I expected that impending flashback to play out, that's for sure.

----------


## Man-Thing

I really need to revisit my big timeline and slot in all the new info...

----------


## Caivu

> Well that was an issue! Not quite how I expected that impending flashback to play out, that's for sure.


I saw the actual reveal coming since issue #7, when it was introduced, but Safiyah's part in it was interesting. And it was nice seeing Knife again; I was hoping Godlewski would get a chance to draw her.

----------


## Caivu

By Geraldo Neto:

Screenshot_20180220-124357.jpg

----------


## Caivu

On rereading #12, there are a bunch of things that tie into and tie up stuff from way earlier in this run. Bennett has been seeding things for a long time, which is cool. I need to sit down and list them all.

----------


## Caivu

Dustin Nguyen's cover for the collected edition of Li'l Gotham:

dbac4cde-22c6-4873-8700-0aac7e3085f1.jpg

----------


## Caivu

The #975 cover was already cool, but even more so in the final version:

Screenshot_20180222-100023.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Bennett spoke briefly about the next story:

Screenshot_20180222-154200.jpg

After issue #12, I'm hooked to see how this next arc was foreshadowed, since Bennett's been doing that well the whole run so far.

----------


## millernumber1

> Dustin Nguyen's cover for the collected edition of Li'l Gotham:
> 
> dbac4cde-22c6-4873-8700-0aac7e3085f1.jpg


That's a new piece of art, right?

----------


## Caivu

I think so.

----------


## Caivu

It happened again today: the Batgirl movie was in the news, and a bunch of people came out of the woodwork to say "I'd prefer a Batwoman movie, thanks". That's been amusing and consistent almost ever since that project was announced.

----------


## Caivu

I had a thought that seems pretty obvious: the next arc is going to show how Beth became Alice.

Those books Bennett mentioned using for research? If this is so, I'd guess most if not all of them deal with psychology. Stockholm syndrome, how people are radicalized, how child soldiers are created, the psychology of kidnapping victims... that's just a few possible topics if this pans out.

----------


## Caivu

By Dima Ivanov:

55848b87-ece8-4a34-8e01-0a601ff009c7.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Yukiko Kayutsu:

IMG_20180223_031245.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Roberto Caramiello:

Screenshot_20180223-075852.jpg

----------


## Oberon

Do you think she is pulling Batwoman back to her own corner of the universe (along with her more normal cast?) ?

----------


## Caivu

> Do you think she is pulling Batwoman back to her own corner of the universe (along with her more normal cast?) ?


Maybe? I don't think that's a priority, but this will depend a lot on the next arc.

----------


## Oberon

I could enjoy both, but I think Kate's story would be very resonant at this time, plus ... such a bad-ass!

----------


## Oberon

I trust you/your summations and thoughts very much.   I guess I was blind-sided and didn't realize that Bennett might be doing this.

I so approve!

Of course given what you're saying as possible, it sorta throws some darkness towards Jacob, what he may have been doing all those years ago, and also how he tried to mold Kate and possibly Bette.

----------


## Caivu

> Of course given what you're saying as possible, it sorta throws some darkness towards Jacob, what he may have been doing all those years ago, and also how he tried to mold Kate and possibly Bette.


I don't think his motives were ever sinister. Him raising and guiding Kate is not on the same level as whatever happened to break Beth.

----------


## Caivu

I did a small bit of searching and found the exact satellite photo used at the end of issue #12:

ISS039-E-009383.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Sketch by Guilherme Sfredo Miorando:

Screenshot_20180223-160403.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Alfred Lee:

Screenshot_20180223-160656.jpg

----------


## Man-Thing

Do you think there's going to be a resync at some point to show exactly how Batwoman lines up with Tec?

----------


## Caivu

> Do you think there's going to be a resync at some point to show exactly how Batwoman lines up with Tec?


Since the next arc is going to be in Gotham, there'll have to be.

----------


## Caivu

A good (and frustratingly necessary) article:

https://www.thefandomentals.com/batwoman-was-right/

----------


## millernumber1

> A good (and frustratingly necessary) article:
> 
> https://www.thefandomentals.com/batwoman-was-right/


I think the title's misleading, but I completely agree that it's in character for Kate and it's very defensible.

----------


## Assam

> A good (and frustratingly necessary) article:
> 
> https://www.thefandomentals.com/batwoman-was-right/


Gotta  comment on the one thing I keep seeing in these defenses that gets under my skin: " Which is, you know, how soldiers and police officers are supposed to operate." It was BS when the Pro-Registration side tried making that argument in Civil War and it's BS here. Costumed vigilantes are NOT cops or soldiers. These are people who have taken the law into their own hands. And you know what? TIM IS RIGHT. They _are_ supposed to be better. It's why I look up to and aspire to be like my favorite superheroes, while viewing the American Armed Forces and Police Force as two of the most corrupt and evil organizations the world over. If I lived in the DCU and 'heroes' were given the right to kill as they see fit, I'd be even more terrified than I would already be living in a world full of supervillains. If this is how Kate wants to operate, she really should just hang up her cape and become a soldier. 

And in regards to  "and calling in the JLA would mean hundreds if not thousands more would die before they got there", this is just flat out wrong. If Bruce had called the satellite the second things got out of control, literally all of them could have gotten to Gotham in seconds, either through their own super speed/ instantaneous travel (Flash, the Green Lanterns, Superman and Cyborg) or through the satellites boom tubes (Diana and Arthur). Hell, none of them even needed to show up. Just call Vic and tell him "Hey, boom Clayface into an abandoned area" and problem solved. This is just another case of Tynion not covering his tracks when it comes to his plots. 




> I think the title's misleading, but I completely agree that it's in character for Kate and it's very defensible.


Funny thing is, I know some passionate Kate fans who HATE this and DO deem it bad writing.

----------


## millernumber1

> Funny thing is, I know some passionate Kate fans who HATE this and DO deem it bad writing.


I mean, yes. Kate's current direction has definitely been polarizing. But I think on balance more of them like the direction than not?

----------


## Assam

> I mean, yes. Kate's current direction has definitely been polarizing. But I think on balance more of them like the direction than not?


Not sure. Definitely seen a number of people of people on both sides.

----------


## Caivu

> Gotta  comment on the one thing I keep seeing in these defenses that gets under my skin: " Which is, you know, how soldiers and police officers are supposed to operate." It was BS when the Pro-Registration side tried making that argument in Civil War and it's BS here. Costumed vigilantes are NOT cops or soldiers. These are people who have taken the law into their own hands.


Whether they're costumed or not doesn't matter. Private citizens are allowed to use lethal force in these situations.




> And you know what? TIM IS RIGHT. They _are_ supposed to be better. It's why I look up to and aspire to be like my favorite superheroes, while viewing the American Armed Forces and Police Force as two of the most corrupt and evil organizations the world over. If I lived in the DCU and 'heroes' were given the right to kill as they see fit, I'd be even more terrified than I would already be living in a world full of supervillains.


It is wild to me that you seem to consider justifiable homicide, a thing that actually exists, to be an action worthy of supervillainy.




> Just call Vic and tell him "Hey, boom Clayface into an abandoned area" and problem solved.


And then he's... what, rampaging around unsupervised? 




> Funny thing is, I know some passionate Kate fans who HATE this and DO deem it bad writing.


And they're wrong to think so, because this is a part of her character. Clayface is not the first person she's killed.

----------


## Assam

> It is wild to me that you seem to consider justifiable homicide, a thing that actually exists, to be an action worthy if supervillainy.


1. Just because a law is real doesn't make it right. Morality>Legality every time. 
2. If someone of their own volition is attempting to murder you and the only way to save yourself is to kill them? I have ZERO problems with that. This was not that; it was an execution. 




> And then he's... what, rampaging around unsupervised?


No, THEN you call up the GL's once they're available (Simon and Jess are shown to have plenty of free time in their book), and have them contain him until October can find a more effective cure. 




> Clayface is not the first person she's killed.


Based on your conversations with Miller, that's debatable.

----------


## Caivu

> If someone of their own volition is attempting to murder you and the only way to save yourself is to kill them? I have ZERO problems with that. This was not that; it was an execution.


Do you really, honestly not consider killing someone to prevent that someone from killing others to be moral?  :Confused: 




> No, THEN you call up the GL's once they're available (Simon and Jess are shown to have plenty of free time in their book), and have them contain him until October can find a more effective cure.


It took months to come up with the first cure. And it would certainly take at least a few days to make a new one. What if they can't stay there that long?




> Based on your conversations with Miller, that's debatable.


Miller is wrong, too.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Assam

> Do you really, honestly not consider killing someone to prevent that someone from killing others to be moral?


If an untrained civilian has the power to keep someone from getting killed, regardless of whatever action is necessary, protecting them is moral. 

If a trained cop or soldier sees an attempted murder in progress and their first response it to kill the attacker, that is amoral. 

Real life or fictional, civilians cannot be held to the same standards.  




> It took months to come up with the first cure. And it would certainly take at least a few days to make a new one. What if they can't stay there that long?


Especially outside of the Batbooks, Bruce's intelligence is off the bloody charts. I THINK he could build a containment cell for him.

----------


## Caivu

> If an untrained civilian has the power to keep someone from getting killed, regardless of whatever action is necessary, protecting them is moral. 
> 
> If a trained cop or soldier sees an attempted murder in progress and their first response it to kill the attacker, that is amoral.


That makes absolutely no sense. Why is it okay for the first group and not the second?




> Especially outside of the Batbooks, Bruce's intelligence is off the bloody charts. I THINK he could build a containment cell for him.


I don't doubt it. But how long would it take?

----------


## Oberon

agreed, very.

----------


## millernumber1

> Not sure. Definitely seen a number of people of people on both sides.


I do agree - that's why I said it was polarizing. Maybe it's just because I really, really like how Tynion writes her, but I think it's a strong take that's got more fans than not.




> Miller is wrong, too.


I like to think of myself as reasonable, and I promise you - I don't think Clayface is Kate's first human kill because I'm being stubborn! I honestly think she's never been shown to use lethal force on humans before. (Also, since Tynion's back on twitter, you should totally ask him about it.  :Wink:  I would, but I want to use all my Tynion tweets for Steph, since I think she needs it more.)




> That makes absolutely no sense. Why is it okay for the first group and not the second?


That's more a political/philosophical question that I don't think will really get answered here.

----------


## Caivu

By Nick Kilislian:

IMG_20180224_144435.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Sho Murase:

Screenshot_20180225-123108.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @nickyj1981 on IG:

Screenshot_20180227-095551.jpg

----------


## sdc27

From @rickcelis 

Commission done https://www.instagram.com/p/BfrBAUFF...n-by=rickcelis

----------


## Caivu

Rick is a machine. He has to have done at least 20 of those sorts of homages since Rebirth started.

----------


## sdc27

I gave him a choice of 3 different Batwoman covers and he chose that one - well worth the cost of commission

----------


## Caivu

Oh cool! I didn't realize you were the commissioner.

----------


## Caivu

By Chris Kozak:

Screenshot_20180228-010948.jpg

----------


## Caivu

So, even though Kate's tattoos were left off _again_ today ( :Mad: ), she _was_ shown to have a bunch of scars, particularly on her back. Not unlike Violet, actually. It looks super-cool and I wish that she was depicted that way more often.

The interesting thing is: I can't account for any injures that might have caused those scars. It could be nothing, or an indication of other offscreen battles... but maybe they're wounds caused during the next arc of her solo. They look like knife scars as much as anything else.

----------


## Bat-Meal

> So, even though Kate's tattoos were left off _again_ today (), she _was_ shown to have a bunch of scars, particularly on her back. Not unlike Violet, actually. It looks super-cool and I wish that she was depicted that way more often.
> 
> The interesting thing is: I can't account for any injures that might have caused those scars. It could be nothing, or an indication of other offscreen battles... but maybe they're wounds caused during the next arc of her solo. They look like knife scars as much as anything else.


Most likely creative license to demonstrate how she is in emotional turmoil.  Also likely the reason she's naked is to depict vulnerability, when all previous depictions of her waking-up from bed (that I've seen anyway, and there's been many) she's usually in pyjamas.

----------


## Caivu

> Most likely creative license to demonstrate how she is in emotional turmoil.  Also likely the reason she's naked is to depict vulnerability, when all previous depictions of her waking-up from bed (that I've seen anyway, and there's been many) she's usually in pyjamas.


I get that, but it's slightly more noticable and a bit irritiating when it's done for a character who has such a high (not perfect, but high) degree of continuity consistency. It's kinda annoying just in general, but eh.

I'm just glad that it's mostly been kept to relatively minor things.

----------


## Caivu

By SavantiRomero on DA:

Batwoman_by_SavantiRomero.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By SaintYak on DA:

Screenshot_20180301-102643.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Jae Lee:

Screenshot_20180301-160026.jpg

I like this much more than his actual variant.

----------


## Assam

"Maguerite Bennet was up first talking about the Fall of the House of Cain and how she was so excited to continue Cassandra's legacy."

Did Newsarama get their characters mixed up or am I missing something here?

----------


## Caivu

That's almost certainly a mix-up, though I don't know how.

----------


## Bat-Meal

Wouldn't be the first time I've seen ppl get the two mixed-up.  

Too many of the characters have similar names I guess.  Cass Cain, Kate Kane, Cassandra Cain, Katherine Kane - if you don't have the best hearing those could blur.

The two characters weren't originally intended to coexist.  The original Batwoman (Kathy Kane) was killed-off and then removed from continuity.  At some point Cass came into existence and they used a similar name.  Then, at some point Batwoman was reborn as Kate Kane, a very different character to Kathy, but only a slight variation on name.

Batwoman's family members names are bad too, she's a Katherine while her step-mother is a Catherine.  Her sister is Elizabeth, shortened to Beth, and her younger cousin is Elizabeth, shortened to Bette.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Caivu

By Trika Dafrek:

Batwoman_by_dafrek.jpg

----------


## Caivu

And just in case there was any doubt that Newsarama quote was a mistake...

Screenshot_20180301-181351.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Eric Jimenez:

IMG_20180301_224807.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Sven Blass:

Screenshot_20180302-145855.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Nicola Scott:

IMG_20180227_122954.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Ben Oliver's cover to 'Tec #948 certainly seems popular for recreating recently. Here's it remade with action figures by @batmanfigs on IG:

Screenshot_20180303-000148.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Corin Howell:

IMG_20180302_191251.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By João Otávio:

Screenshot_20180303-135454.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Jeremy Carver:

ffdbca1c-7931-4311-bf90-56b598e8611a.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Minkyu Jung:

Screenshot_20180304-101448.jpg

I think Kate's secretly into this...

----------


## Punisher007

Given that she's dated two cops, I wonder if handcuffs ever came into play.   :Wink:

----------


## shado

If you met Kate Kane in a bar, what would you talk about? 
What do you think her answer would be to the question - what do you do for a living?

----------


## Caivu

> If you met Kate Kane in a bar, what would you talk about? 
> What do you think her answer would be to the question - what do you do for a living?


She does actually have some sort of office job, though it's only been mentioned, like, once. 

During 52, I interpreted her as working in real estate in some capacity, and now I assume she works for her stepmother's rifle company, though it's probably a sinecure.

----------


## Caivu

By Robbi Rodriguez:

Screenshot_20180305-010647.jpg

----------


## millernumber1

I'm really curious - what is your sense of how popular Kate's plot in Rebirth has been? I know you (Caivu) and I really like it, and I believe ProgmanX also likes it (haven't checked their reviews recently), but it seems like there's a lot of dissension among hardcore Kate fans about whether the Colony is a good addition to her mythology or not (and I don't count myself as a hardcore fan, though I do like her a lot.)

----------


## Caivu

> I'm really curious - what is your sense of how popular Kate's plot in Rebirth has been? I know you (Caivu) and I really like it, and I believe ProgmanX also likes it (haven't checked their reviews recently), but it seems like there's a lot of dissension among hardcore Kate fans about whether the Colony is a good addition to her mythology or not (and I don't count myself as a hardcore fan, though I do like her a lot.)


A lot of the dislike of the Colony, based on what I've seen, seems largely due to the perception that they're evil or even fascistic, somehow. The second one especially would be highly questionable description of a group for two Jewish characters to be leading, but even the first isn't correct, either: I've seen more than one person refer to the Colony as "paramilitary", which they aren't. They're a division of the Army, if a highly classified one. 

I haven't been able to nail down any exact complaints beyond that, just a nebulous claim that Kate is "different" now, because of... reasons. I don't get that claim, since I keep track of that sort of thing and there have been relatively few and/or minor changes as long as she's been around.

In general, I've seen a slow warming up to things since "Fear and Loathing" started, though the major theme that's been revealed in more recent issues (the cyclical nature of violence, basically), doesn't seem to have largely clicked with people yet, I think.

----------


## Caivu

Fernando Blanco WIP:

IMG_20180305_135438.jpg

----------


## millernumber1

> A lot of the dislike of the Colony, based on what I've seen, seems largely due to the perception that they're evil or even fascistic, somehow. The second one especially would be highly questionable description of a group for two Jewish characters to be leading, but even the first isn't correct, either: I've seen more than one person refer to the Colony as "paramilitary", which they aren't. They're a division of the Army, if a highly classified one. 
> 
> I haven't been able to nail down any exact complaints beyond that, just a nebulous claim that Kate is "different" now, because of... reasons. I don't get that claim, since I keep track of that sort of thing and there have been relatively few and/or minor changes as long as she's been around.
> 
> In general, I've seen a slow warming up to things since "Fear and Loathing" started, though the major theme that's been revealed in more recent issues (the cyclical nature of violence, basically), doesn't seem to have largely clicked with people yet, I think.


I think the Colony is currently "rogue" - I thought after Gotham they were considered acting outside of their command structure? But as a fan of the Colony, I agree that they're neither evil or tyrranical. Questionable, antagonistic, absolutely. But they have clearly acted against their more evil elements, like the General.

I think the biggest specific complaint I've heard is that Jacob is now evil. Which...1) no he's not, and 2) he was already very much an antagonist at the end of Elegy and Go. The n52 just obscured that by flattening his character. I think if Rucka had stayed on, we wouldn't have gotten the Colony, but we would likely have gotten more conflict between Jake and Kate.

I definitely agree that Kate seems pretty solidly consistent with her pre-Rebirth characterization.

(I can't comment on Bennett's stuff, because I really dislike it. But I do think that it's not nearly as influential or controversial as the Colony in Tec - it seems more that people find Bennett's contributions kinda dull rather than "I hate it.")

----------


## Caivu

> I think the Colony is currently "rogue" - I thought after Gotham they were considered acting outside of their command structure?


Officially, yes. Their actions in Gotham were not sanctioned... officially. I've said it before here, but the remnants of the Colony are not acting like fugitives. They're still conducting operations and Jacob is openly walking around Gotham. So I think it's a case where the guys who were captured by ARGUS were quietly released; the Colony strikes me as a project that has a _lot_ of leeway before the government would actually shut it down. And if it really is that secretive, having a show of it being shut down would be beneficial.

----------


## Caivu

By Mirka Andolfo:

Screenshot_20180304-185551.jpg

----------


## Oberon

At times the colony plot seems more, or less important to the overall tale - or I'm missing some clues.

Where do you think this plot goes?  It would seem to be bigger than Kate, though now with her "switching sides", it is sure to be more important to others, certainly Batfamily members.

----------


## Caivu

By Tony Moy:

Screenshot_20180306-154826.jpg

----------


## Caivu

> At times the colony plot seems more, or less important to the overall tale - or I'm missing some clues.
> 
> Where do you think this plot goes?  It would seem to be bigger than Kate, though now with her "switching sides", it is sure to be more important to others, certainly Batfamily members.


If the theory that Kate is going to dismantle it from the inside (for whatever reason) is correct, then that. If not, then maybe her solo will change gears into her leading the Colony on missions, I dunno.

----------


## millernumber1

> Officially, yes. Their actions in Gotham were not sanctioned... officially. I've said it before here, but the remnants of the Colony are not acting like fugitives. They're still conducting operations and Jacob is openly walking around Gotham. So I think it's a case where the guys who were captured by ARGUS were quietly released; the Colony strikes me as a project that has a _lot_ of leeway before the government would actually shut it down. And if it really is that secretive, having a show of it being shut down would be beneficial.


That makes sense. It is odd that Jacob still has access to infrastructure to support a helicarrier. (Back when Avengers first came out, I did a check on how many people crew on an aircraft carrier, and it was more people than usually are on the books for any one of the big three letter agencies. So...haha, yeah, the Colony is probably still somewhat sanctioned. In that hilariously unrealistic "we have a helicarrier" sort of way.  :Smile:  )

----------


## Punisher007

I just hate what they've been doing with Jacob ever since the "reveal."  It's cliché and dull and boring, etc.  He was more interesting before all of this.

Also I'm bored with the "Bat-family constantly fighting itself" plots to, and unless Kate is playing double-agent and planning to take it down from the inside, I don't care for her joining The Colony either.

Basically it's all so dreadfully dull right now.

----------


## Oberon

Yes, I would think that Kate would try to dismantle or control it better. Depending on whether this shows up more in her title, I could see a way to use Bette as an agent, perhaps, since Bette seems to have an in with Jacob and some of his cohorts (question, I don't remember if they explained any 'thing' or connection between the Crow gang in BW's first title that took Bette in, or the colony?

But the idea of someone who is an out Lesbian and pretty defiant about it, trying to , perhaps covertly change or channel the Colony seems interesting.  Maybe she will find out even far more dark secrets of her father or others.

----------


## Oberon

I'm willing to hang onto Jacob as possibly being a really deep below kind of agent. He always had an edge but this does seem different.  I will probably do some rereading of many issues to get a better handle on it.

My problem is I let my comic shop pull really stack up. Then I try to read them all fast (which I can, but...) and maybe retain the stuff I need to keep moving on.

But I prefer Kate to either not be in the Batfamily or not be very directly involved in it.  I want to see her and Flamebird 'invert' the Dynamic Duo, and to better results and stories.

----------


## millernumber1

> I'm willing to hang onto Jacob as possibly being a really deep below kind of agent. He always had an edge but this does seem different.  I will probably do some rereading of many issues to get a better handle on it.
> 
> My problem is I let my comic shop pull really stack up. Then I try to read them all fast (which I can, but...) and maybe retain the stuff I need to keep moving on.
> 
> But I prefer Kate to either not be in the Batfamily or not be very directly involved in it.  I want to see her and Flamebird 'invert' the Dynamic Duo, and to better results and stories.


What do you normally pull that you've let stack up? I mean, I read pretty obsessively every Wednesday, but I'm only following about 5 or 6 titles max.

----------


## Caivu

More Blanco WIP:

IMG_20180306_145218.jpg

----------


## Oberon

I just can't get to my store weekly. Its in another city, and my commute to work etc is long enough. So in the past I've literally gone months without stopping by to pick up.   Talk about Cha-Ching!

I've been better lately though.

My stack currently is:

Batwoman
Detective
Avengers (during NO Surrender, otherwise, possibly Uncanny Avengers and main title Avengers0
Black Bolt (author lives in the city where my comic store is!)
Royals - possibly another Inhuman title, but NOT ms. marvel (nothing personal, just not feeling it)

just started/will start Xmen Red (first x title I'll/may read in many years; Jean Grey)
The Phoenix Ressurection mini.

my main likes are team comics and/or with female characters. Sue, Wanda, Jan are the most!

----------


## Caivu

Michael Cho WIP:

Screenshot_20180307-090745.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Kiarou:

IMG_20180307_090649.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Johnny Chu:

IMG_20180308_120951.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By maptiv:

IMG_20180307_110406.jpg

----------


## millernumber1

Well, Batwoman has finally dropped as a stretch goal for Gotham City Chronicles: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects.../posts/2132887

 :Smile:

----------


## Caivu

I thought she was part of it from the beginning, but whatever. Still cool. Looks like they've fixed the sculpt to make her suit look less like body paint.

----------


## millernumber1

> I thought she was part of it from the beginning, but whatever. Still cool. Looks like they've fixed the sculpt to make her suit look less like body paint.


Nope! She wasn't one of the original set of heros, but she's a stretch goal now! (I'm still waiting for Steph, obvs.)  :Smile:

----------


## Caivu

Looks like the goal is going to be reached by the end of today.

----------


## millernumber1

> Looks like the goal is going to be reached by the end of today.


I think the goal has already been met. (Now I'm mad that Bluebird if being released before Spoiler. That's just not cool! Even though I like Bluebird. Frown!)

----------


## Caivu

Was just about to post that.

Pretty disappointed at the writeup about her, though. Even if it was just a blog post.
No mention of Kate being Jewish. No mention of Beth. Gabi's name was incorrect. No mention of Kate leaving the Army even in general. Those are all kinda important.

----------


## millernumber1

> Was just about to post that.
> 
> Pretty disappointed at the writeup about her, though. Even if it was just a blog post.
> No mention of Kate being Jewish. No mention of Beth. Gabi's name was incorrect. No mention of Kate leaving the Army even in general. Those are all kinda important.


The game makers are French, and a lot of the info has felt slightly garbled.  :Smile:

----------


## Caivu

By Orbin Spinoza:

Screenshot_20180309-153049.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Frank A. Kadar:

Screenshot_20180310-225630.jpg

----------


## Caivu

An all-female Justice League lineup, by Dan Wolff:

Screenshot_20180309-153416.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Demetrius Reddick:

Screenshot_20180310-103521.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Bruna Carol:

Screenshot_20180308-124005.jpg

----------


## Oberon

I like the look with the exception of the simulated or otherwise blood dripping.  At least it looks like that to me.

----------


## Caivu

Fernando Blanco WIP:

IMG_20180312_113259.jpg

----------


## Caivu

I did some rechecking, and apparently Kate's 200th main DCU appearance will be in 'Tec #976 this Wednesday!

----------


## Oberon

If we had some award for most obsessive Batwoman fan, it would go to you I believe! That is actually amazing and has made me feel diminished because I have no acquaintance with her first appearances or earlier runs.

I've only read Elegy and pretty sure I saw most of "Cutter" which these were before her first series. But I've read most of her appearances since then, with the exception of where she may have guested or cameoed elsewhere. Like didn't she turn up in one of the JLA arcs during the first year or two of new 52?

----------


## Caivu

> If we had some award for most obsessive Batwoman fan, it would go to you I believe! That is actually amazing and has made me feel diminished because I have no acquaintance with her first appearances or earlier runs.


I recently realized that I've made over half the posts in this thread, so... maybe. Heh.
Don't feel lesser because of it! You're no less a fan of any character just for not having read all their stuff. As long as you like them, you're a fan.




> Like didn't she turn up in one of the JLA arcs during the first year or two of new 52?


I don't think so. If so, I don't know about it.

----------


## Twice-named

> Like didn't she turn up in one of the JLA arcs during the first year or two of new 52?


Maybe you’re thinking of Justice League: Cry for Justice? She also cameoed in Justice Society of America during Brightest Day and Justice League of America during Rise of Eclipso. In the New 52, she was in the Rotworld crossover.

----------


## Oberon

You have great value for doing all this.

----------


## Caivu

By Damien Malglaive:

Screenshot_20180313-210923.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Jorge Molina:

Screenshot_20180313-111030.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Andi Watson:

IMG_20180313_123517.jpg

----------


## Caivu

In addition to today marking Detective Comics #976 and Kate's 200th appearance, I found out she was also in a flashback in RHaTO #20.

----------


## Caivu

Fernando Blanco WIP:

IMG_20180315_144013.jpg

So glad he finally gets to draw Julia! She looks so cool.

----------


## millernumber1

> In addition to today marking Detective Comics #976 and Kate's 200th appearance, I found out she was also in a flashback in RHaTO #20.


What did she do?

----------


## Caivu

> What did she do?


It was just the panel from #15 of her popping Bizarro the silicon pill or whatever it was.

----------


## Caivu

By Jim Cheung:

IMG_20180315_152319.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Francisco Cortes:

Screenshot_20180307-090858.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Rafael Gumboc:

Screenshot_20180316-123308.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By u/ucancallmeroot:

Screenshot_20180316-180931.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

> By Jim Cheung:
> 
> IMG_20180315_152319.jpg


I love this!

----------


## Caivu

Right? It's slightly Injustice-y with the chin bit.

----------


## Caivu

By Nick Perks:

line3-16-3.jpg

----------


## Caivu

I want to go into this more in-depth later, but I think 'Tec #976 may have spoiled the next arc of Batwoman.

----------


## Caivu

By Mirka Andolfo:

Screenshot_20180317-135433.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Tattoo by Shane Murphy, on the leg of Rowan Zuhlke:

Screenshot_20180317-194217.jpg

----------


## Oberon

I await 'later', then.

----------


## Caivu

> I await 'later', then.


And it's now!

Okay, so: For anything to make sense, "Fall of the House of Kane" _has_ to take place before "Fall of the Batmen" since Kate hasn't joined the Colony yet in her solo. Meaning that some things _have_ to be the case.

1. The Many Arms of Death have to be defeated or at least weakened to the point of insignificance.

Look at what Kate says here:

Screenshot_20180317-161235.jpg

If TMAoD were still a significant problem,  there's no reason I can see that Kate would not use her new resources to crush them once and for all. If they were still a problem, this wouldn't be a question.

2. Beth has to still be alive.

This relates to Kate's clarification of lethal force:

Screenshot_20180317-161307.jpg

TMA have been trying to break Kate and get her to accept at least what they see as her true nature, which seems to be a mindless killer or something. They almost succeeded with Scarecrow.

I think they will try to maneuver Kate into killing Beth. But since neither Kate nor Jacob have mentioned this, it can't have happened. Can't. It'd be inhuman of them to have experienced that loss again and just... not mention it. So, surprise, the bad guys lose.

But they _do_ succeed in one area: getting Kate to change her methods, as Kate mentioned at the end of issue #12.

3. Julia has to still be alive, for similar reasons.

----------


## Caivu

By Adrian Duchemin:

Screenshot_20180318-091027.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Mask replica by Tiger Stone FX:

IMG_20180318_200430.jpg

----------


## Bat-Meal

> By Jim Cheung:
> 
> IMG_20180315_152319.jpg


To me it kinda looks like she has a beard with that chin piece.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Caivu

Screenshot_20180319-160542.jpg

*BATWOMAN #16*

Written by MARGUERITE BENNETT
Art by FERNANDO BLANCO
Cover by DAN PANOSIAN
Variant cover by MICHAEL CHO

Retailers: This issue will ship with two covers. Please see the order form for details.

“The Fall of the House of Kane” part four! Alice’s deadly plague of virus-ridden bats may have been torn from the sky, but she still roams free. Now Batman must do whatever it takes to stop her—even if that means going through her sister, Batwoman, to do it. Blood ties and betrayal wage war in a clash for control that’s been in the making since the day Kate Kane put on the cowl: Batman vs. Batwoman!

On sale JUNE 20 • 32 pg, FC • $3.99 US • RATED T+


When is this supposed to take place? Does this virus cause amnesia? Is it not as much of a fight as described?

----------


## Caivu

By Sophie Scruggs:

IMG_20180319_184737.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

> By Sophie Scruggs:
> 
> IMG_20180319_184737.jpg


That is cool

----------


## Caivu

By Nacho Ortiz:

Screenshot_20180319-145210.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Bombshells United #19 cover by Marguerite Sauvage:

IMG_20180320_101722.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Today's Kate's birthday!  :Big Grin:

----------


## Man-Thing

Read the issue. That's.... not how I saw that shaking out. Hmm.

*spoilers:*
Alice as the Mother of War. Hrm. 

As much as people dislike Andreyko's run, I really hope it isn't just completely swept under the rug and ignored. I liked Alice actually getting better, and wrestling with her inner demons, even if it was a bit badly written, and hidden away amongst the rest of the clusterfuck of that run. I hope that's not all just quietly dropped and never mentioned again.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Caivu

> Read the issue. That's.... not how I saw that shaking out. Hmm.
> 
> *spoilers:*
> Alice as the Mother of War. Hrm. 
> 
> As much as people dislike Andreyko's run, I really hope it isn't just completely swept under the rug and ignored. I liked Alice actually getting better, and wrestling with her inner demons, even if it was a bit badly written, and hidden away amongst the rest of the clusterfuck of that run. I hope that's not all just quietly dropped and never mentioned again.
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
I don't think it has been. It's pretty clear that Beth was still in recovery afterward. It's just that Knife broke her out and probably caused her to relapse. There's still some details that need filling in here, but that's the gist of it.

I also think Safiyah's not innocent in this (obviously). She's trying to cast _Knife_ as the Mother of War, after all, and Kate did name-drop her in association with TMAoD while talking to the doctor. Another thing that's missing some details for now.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Oberon

"Fascinating" (thanks, Mr. Spock)

----------


## Caivu

This is a very good article:

http://www.multiversitycomics.com/ne...this-batwoman/

----------


## Caivu

Batwoman #15 variant cover by Rafael Grampá:

IMG_20180321_163426.jpg

----------


## Oberon

Good article and thanks for sharing. Sarah Lance, on 'Arrow' was mentioned and I think if Kate ever got a TV or film appearance, that actress would be a good choice to play her.

----------


## Caivu

Caity Lotz hasn't really been on my radar as far as Kate casting goes, even though she hits a lot of boxes for what I'd look for.

----------


## Oberon

I'm usually better at remembering actor's names. Thanks for the assist.  I watch her with the DC Legends gang and of course she has at least a couple of things going for her.  She plays a convincing bisexual/more Lesbian. She has a demeanor that is icy cool calm. And she appears credible in fighting scenes and skilled fighting scenes.

Just a thought based on the mention of her in the article.  If I really put myself to the task there is probably someone else that would reek 'perfect' to me.

----------


## Caivu

All those reasons are correct. But I'm looking for all that _plus_ someone who matches her physically. Both Lotz and one of the more popular fancasts, Evan Rachel Wood, are considerably shorter than Kate. I hate to be that picky, but I just am (ERW is still my second choice, though).

----------


## Oberon

I would feel the same way, actually.  I favor more specific casting.  The only 'shortie' who really got away with it, maybe, was M. Keaton in the original Burton Batman movies.

Speaking of Batman, I guess the part of the multiversity article that indicates that 'Tec, BW and ... Batman are rather interconnected storylines gave me pause.

Maybe I should start reading at least that one?

----------


## Caivu

Yeah, that was an interesting point. Both Batman and Batwoman are more introspective series than 'Tec, and in many ways more personal to their respective leads.

----------


## Caivu

By Perry Fiero:

Screenshot_20180322-030417.jpg

----------


## Caivu

A peek at the cover to issue #17, I'm guessing. By Dan Panosian.

Screenshot_20180322-030513.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Fernando Blanco posted a bunch of WIP today. Gonna have to spread these out...

IMG_20180322_133857.jpg

IMG_20180322_133900.jpg

IMG_20180322_133910.jpg

----------


## Oberon

A long time ago I knew a fellow Wiccan who said as a child she always told her Mommy she wanted to sleep in a coffin - I guess sorta goth lady?

I feel you have a healthy similar 'craving' over Batwoman. You're such a fan, really.  You eat, drink and sleep Batwoman, I know you do!

So tell me, do you want to wear a cape or anything? (If this was silly or tasteless, please forgive me!)

----------


## Caivu

No, not at all.  :Smile:

----------


## Oberon

I'm pretty obsessive myself, not really ocd (but. . . . )

I obsess over Bette like she is the only Bat character ever.

I am currently obsessing over my "Various Vampires" display of dolls and action figures in the fall.

I obsess over being on time, but not in an ocd kind of way.

That is enough for now.   My vampire display will totally destroy!

----------


## Caivu

Second *bat*ch:

IMG_20180322_133917.jpg

IMG_20180322_133922.jpg

IMG_20180322_133932.jpg

----------


## millernumber1

> I'm pretty obsessive myself, not really ocd (but. . . . )
> 
> I obsess over Bette like she is the only Bat character ever.
> 
> I am currently obsessing over my "Various Vampires" display of dolls and action figures in the fall.
> 
> I obsess over being on time, but not in an ocd kind of way.
> 
> That is enough for now.   My vampire display will totally destroy!


You're not alone. Just check out any of the appreciation threads, and you'll find your mirror for different characters.  :Smile:

----------


## Caivu

Two more to go after these:

IMG_20180322_133940.jpg

IMG_20180322_133951.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Last two:

IMG_20180322_134003.jpg

IMG_20180322_134510.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Ludovic Leondi:

Screenshot_20180322-111758.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Tynion, Martinez, Fernandez, and Anderson were just announced as the new team for Justice League Dark, and though Kate was not announced as part of the cast, this greatly increases her chances of appearing in it at least a bit. Having her on JLD is one of the bigger story ideas I've had in mind for her, so it's kinda neat for it to be a realistic possibility now.

----------


## Twice-named

> Tynion and Martinez were just announced as the new team for Justice League Dark, and though Kate was not announced as part of the cast, this greatly increases her chances of appearing in it at least a bit. Having her on JLD is one of the bigger story ideas I've had in mind for her, so it's kinda neat for it to be a realistic possibility now.


IGN is saying Renee will be in it as the Question.

----------


## Oberon

This could still lead to a Batwoman appearance, possibly.

----------


## Caivu

> IGN is saying Renee will be in it as the Question.


Okay, after having a mini heart attack, it looks like they mistyped her for Zatanna... for some reason.

----------


## Twice-named

> Okay, after having a mini heart attack, it looks like they mistyped her for Zatanna... for some reason.


Hmm. Their article still says Renee. It also says Zatanna.

----------


## Caivu

> Hmm. Their article still says Renee. It also says Zatanna.


Renee is not in it:

Screenshot_20180324-151246.jpg

----------


## Twice-named

> Renee is not in it:
> 
> Screenshot_20180324-151246.jpg


That definitely settles it. Thanks!

----------


## Caivu

> This could still lead to a Batwoman appearance, possibly.


It would be such a waste to not at least have her in for an arc. The team deals with stuff that's within her area of expertise,  it has two members she's crushed on... and involves some of her main creatives for the past couple years.

----------


## Caivu

I am very cautiously encouraged...

Screenshot_20180324-142847.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Steve Epting:

Screenshot_20180324-155709.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Guile Sharp:

IMG_20180324_181757.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Matheus Fernandes:

Screenshot_20180322-154143.jpg

----------


## Oberon

I very much agree. Sadly I did not see any appearances of Kate in any previous JL books - you told me there were a couple.

But I really think Batwoman would do well in such a series and would buy it if she truly were a regular member.

----------


## Caivu

She was only a minor part of Justice League: Cry for Justice, and she was originally supposed to end up joining the Justice League. Generally she's considered to have dodged a bullet there since the series wasn't good.

And yeah, she'd be the perfect Bat member for JLD.

----------


## Caivu

By Tatiana B. Barthel:

Screenshot_20180323-204512.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Josh Bauer:

Screenshot_20180324-181619.jpg

----------


## Twice-named

Is Batwoman being cancelled with #18?

From the description for Vol. 3: “Written by Marguerite Bennett (DC Comics Bombshells) this stunning conclusion to the series ends this chapter of Batwoman’s history! Batwoman Vol. 3 collects issues #12-18.”

----------


## Caivu

> Is Batwoman being cancelled with #18?
> 
> From the description for Vol. 3: “Written by Marguerite Bennett (DC Comics Bombshells) this stunning conclusion to the series ends this chapter of Batwoman’s history! Batwoman Vol. 3 collects issues #12-18.”


I've heard nothing official, so until I do, I'm not believing it. But it's definitely not encouraging.

----------


## Caivu

By Rafael Gumboc:

Screenshot_20180326-022349.jpg

----------


## Man-Thing

> Is Batwoman being cancelled with #18?
> 
> From the description for Vol. 3: Written by Marguerite Bennett (DC Comics Bombshells) this stunning conclusion to the series ends this chapter of Batwomans history! Batwoman Vol. 3 collects issues #12-18.


Oh dear  :Frown:

----------


## Caivu

> Oh dear


Don't despair yet! It's not been officially announced, and this wouldn't be the first time description copy has been inaccurate.

----------


## Oberon

. . . OR . . . .  misleading?

----------


## Caivu

By Angel Santiago:

IMG_20180326_171258.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Steve Epting:

ba20d162-7774-4f42-bbb8-9ca4f2a226a3.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Siobhan Clair:

IMG_20180326_175931.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Carlos Sekko:

IMG_20180327_095907.jpg

----------


## Caivu

I fixed a small thing from issue #7...

IMG_20180327_110922.jpg

----------


## Man-Thing

> I fixed a small thing from issue #7...


heh good job

----------


## Caivu

> heh good job


Thanks. Should've used a higher-res image, but oh well.

----------


## Caivu

By Gabriel Hardman:

f76cdfef-c1e2-4794-8146-f60d2e36e3c2.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Destiny Sanchez:

Screenshot_20180328-010602.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Javier Cruz:

Screenshot_20180328-201319.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Matthew Hirons:

Screenshot_20180328-211801.jpg

----------


## Miles To Go

Variant for Detective#979

----------


## Caivu

Sweet. I knew they'd be fighting together again.

I hope Albuquerque stays on variants after this run.

----------


## Oberon

Your Psycho-senses serve you well!   Ummm, I mean Psychic!

----------


## Caivu

By Dani Darko:

Screenshot_20180329-114218.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Fernando Blanco WIP:

IMG_20180329_220628.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @sifueagle on IG:

Screenshot_20180329-231308.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Bruno Redondo:

Screenshot_20180330-024624.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Wellington Diaz:

Screenshot_20180330-093743.jpg

----------


## Caivu

@ablouzada on Twitter combined a few pieces by José Garcia-Lopez to show what Kate might have looked like in the 1980s:

IMG_20180330_114411.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Michelle Pratt, after Blanco:

Screenshot_20180330-024654.jpg

----------


## Caivu

It's not quite 100% officially started yet everywhere, but in most places Passover for this year has begun, and that's worth noting here.

----------


## Oberon

I said many Happy Passovers to my Jewish friends and co-workers in the Detroit area.

Happy Passover, Happy Easter or happy good eating, whatever you do!

----------


## Caivu

By Rafael Gumboc:

Screenshot_20180330-202202.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Jessica Lynn:

Screenshot_20180328-201143.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Oren Paz:

Screenshot_20180331-175351.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Another by Jessica Lynn:

Screenshot_20180331-130835.jpg

----------


## Caivu

And another:

Screenshot_20180331-130849.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Appropriate for today:

Screenshot_20180401-084456.jpg

By Dave Alvarez.

----------


## Caivu

Today also marks the 3rd anniversary of the end of her New 52 series, as well as Batman Eternal #52, which she cameoed in.

----------


## Caivu

Something miller wrote in the Steph thread seems to dash the possibility of Kate being in JLD, which is a bummer:




> He also said that Man-Bat is the only Gotham character he's touching right now.


"He" being Tynion.

----------


## Caivu

By Dima Ivanov:

962062ad-9817-4fbe-bed4-9ecffdcb189d.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Aarin Knox:

IMG_20180402_101210.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Eddy Barrows:

Screenshot_20180401-182313.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Dima Ivanov again, a redraw of the previous image:

907c1b1c-3380-48fb-bc6f-078834d68f47.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Kris Anka:

c77089a2-d979-4cf5-9b9c-8a85dd01f6ec.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Tony Esteves:

Screenshot_20180402-160248.jpg

----------


## millernumber1

> Something miller wrote in the Steph thread seems to dash the possibility of Kate being in JLD, which is a bummer:
> 
> "He" being Tynion.


Oooh, I didn't think of that. That is a bummer.  :Frown:

----------


## Caivu

> Oooh, I didn't think of that. That is a bummer.


Especially since it makes so much sense to have her there, even as like, a support role with all her new resources.
But at least that eliminates one possibility to worry about.

----------


## Caivu

By Jim Forzese:

Batwoman_by_jimf0123.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Charlotte de Ladell:

Screenshot_20180403-005711.jpg

----------


## Caivu

WIP from Fernando Blanco and John Rauch:

Screenshot_20180403-111921.jpg

Looks like the same memory layout used earlier by Epting is coming back here.

----------


## Caivu

By Michael Dooney:

Screenshot_20180403-112123.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Anton Oxenuk:

Screenshot_20180403-151905.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Another good article:

https://comicsverse.com/convergence-...tary-batwoman/

----------


## Caivu

By Edward Pun:

IMG_20180403_122929.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Stephen Byrne:

IMG_20180404_010843.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Bridgette Bocanegra:

Screenshot_20180403-151923.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Alvaro Martínez:

Screenshot_20180403-191854.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Another by Jessica Lynn:

Screenshot_20180331-130903.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Kaitlyn Lloyd:

Screenshot_20180404-163757.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Amy Reeder:

IMG_20180404_230249.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Some older Fernando Blanco WIP that I missed earlier:

IMG_20180402_173930.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Victoria Anderson:

2018_365_challenge:_Day_95_by_Miss-Arcadia.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Another by Amy Reeder:

IMG_20180404_230256.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By George Kambadais:

IMG_20180405_090506.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Norm Rapmund:

Screenshot_20180405-155553.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Progman's back with another analysis, this time of issue #13:

https://www.thefandomentals.com/batw...ls-at-failing/

In part, he makes a very convincing case for the Mother of War's actual identity.

----------


## saiyan_earthling

"wonderfully relatable dumbass". Very savage.

----------


## Caivu

> "wonderfully relatable dumbass". Very savage.


Heh, yeah. He and I disagree a little about how much Kate's negative traits should be emphasized (I take a more balanced view, I think), but he's an even bigger fan of Kate than I am.

In other words, I don't think I personally would ever describe Kate that way, but I don't think the idea of that description is completely unsound.

----------


## Caivu

Fernando Blanco's redesign of Alice:

IMG_20180403_110042.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Sean Stannard:

Screenshot_20180406-102732.jpg

----------


## Caivu

DARKANGEL-LEVY on DA colored the sketch cover by Rafael Gumboc from the other day:

Screenshot_20180406-114645.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Jhonesbas Craneo:

IMG_20180406_145316.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Summer Suzuki:

IMG_20180406_191028.jpg

----------


## Mataza

> "wonderfully relatable dumbass". Very savage.


Thats interesting. I always wondered if i was missing something or was that truly in the nature of the character.

----------


## Caivu

> Thats interesting. I always wondered if i was missing something or was that truly in the nature of the character.


It is, though I don't agree with the view that Kate is some sort of massive, quasi-legendary screwup of a person. She has too many positive traits to balance her flaws for that to be totally true.

It's basically like this: one of Kate's biggest flaws is that she's relatively easy to manipulate. Not because she's stupid (because she's not), but because she's principled and doesn't tend to be introspective. The DEO took advantage of that, and now TMAoD have in a different way.

----------


## Restingvoice

Who are some people who won't buy queer stories if they don't have explicit romance in it?

Appreciation Thread Talk: Batwoman, I think has one of the best costume design and the most stand out character design as a very pale woman with bright red hair and cool tattoos. She has good back story and supporting cast, and often strong launching with the best artist like J.H. Williams III. 
...I just can't relate to her. She's one of those characters that I want to like, but can't, maybe because of the personality. I kinda like Bette and Julia Pennyworth more. I really like Julia.

----------


## Caivu

> Who are some people who won't buy queer stories if they don't have explicit romance in it?


Plenty of people. For this specifically, I think a lot of people were expecting something more swashbuckly and stuff, with romance as a part of that. I know I was. But that was dispelled pretty early on, I think.




> Appreciation Thread Talk: Batwoman, I think has one of the best costume design and the most stand out character design as a very pale woman with bright red hair and cool tattoos. She has good back story and supporting cast, and often strong launching with the best artist like J.H. Williams III. 
> ...I just can't relate to her. She's one of those characters that I want to like, but can't, maybe because of the personality. I kinda like Bette and Julia Pennyworth more. I really like Julia.


Could you go into this deeper? Not to put you on the spot or anything, I'm just curious. I've heard a lot of people say they can't relate to her, but I've never understood why.

----------


## Caivu

A couple more by Kaitlyn Lloyd:

Screenshot_20180404-163824.jpg

Screenshot_20180404-163842.jpg

----------


## Restingvoice

> Could you go into this deeper? Not to put you on the spot or anything, I'm just curious. I've heard a lot of people say they can't relate to her, but I've never understood why.


Sure thing. I'm kinda curious myself. Like I said, she's a character I want to like but somehow difficult to get into. 

My first thought it's because she's kind of a hardass. There are a lot of hardass characters, but when it comes to the main character to like or relate, they're usually not one of mine. My favorites tend to be paragons of kindness like Clark, Diana and Dick, snark-shooters like Jason, Damian, Pennyworth I and II, or people who have revel in their ridiculousness like Midnighter (though not overly cutesy like Harley). 

I find Kate kinda... serious... or mature. Decisive. She can joke and quip, she parties, she can bare her heart out to people she trusts, but I haven't seen those parts where she's emotional or vulnerable as much as her duty mode and badass moments. Even in her narration boxes. 

I guess she's kind of like Bruce in that way, but I've known Bruce almost all of my life and he has many versions to choose. Batman was my favorite character, but it's Golden-Silver-Bronze Age Batman who was more emotional, sensitive, outwardly kind, and sometimes a dad. I never knew Jerk Age Batman, and while current Batman apparently has his sensitivity back, he's still too closed off and inconsistently written to be my favorite again. 

Like Batman, I find Batwoman's a fun character to watch when beating up bad guys, but not that interesting to get to know personally.

So since buying comics is like a wallet battle royale, when J.H. Williams III left I kinda lost a reason to buy. Of course, that means my assessment is very limited to the short time I read her plus the previews. 

...I like her fangirling over Wonder Woman. That was cute.

----------


## Caivu

> I find Kate kinda... serious... or mature. Decisive. She can joke and quip, she parties, she can bare her heart out to people she trusts, but I haven't seen those parts where she's emotional or vulnerable as much as her duty mode and badass moments. Even in her narration boxes.


What you say here is all true, but that's also a big part of her character. Her relative level of stoicness is her emulating Jacob. She wanted that sort of stability in her life after her kidnapping, and it's part of why she went into the military.

Are you reading her current series? Because that emotional vulnerability is _definitely_ present there (also in her first series, though not as much).




> Like Batman, I find Batwoman's a fun character to watch when beating up bad guys, but not that interesting to get to know personally.


This is just me, but I'd say the reason she's interesting is because she's not really like the characters you mentioned in your second paragraph. I _like_  all those characters, but I tend to prefer characters who _aren't_ paragons, who _aren't_ snark machines, who _aren't_ campy. She's relatively unexaggerated as far as her personality goes, and as such tends to act more like a real person, and I like that.

----------


## Caivu

By Munir Bhiriya:

Screenshot_20180407-101531.jpg

----------


## Restingvoice

> What you say here is all true, but that's also a big part of her character. Her relative level of stoicness is her emulating Jacob. She wanted that sort of stability in her life after her kidnapping, and it's part of why she went into the military.
> Are you reading her current series? Because that emotional vulnerability is _definitely_ present there (also in her first series, though not as much).
> This is just me, but I'd say the reason she's interesting is that she's not really like the characters you mentioned in your second paragraph. I _like_  all those characters, but I tend to prefer characters who _aren't_ paragons, who _aren't_ snark machines, who _aren't_ campy. She's relatively unexaggerated as far as her personality goes, and as such tends to act more like a real person, and I like that.


True, but it's just different taste. 

No... I'm not buying anything at the moment because DC seems not finished shaping their universe and clearing continuity yet.  

Initially, I picked books with characters or art I'm interested in, hence why Batwoman got in, but once I realized the larger DCU has a main plot and it affects characters and series related to it, I shifted my priority there. It's like DC is one huge book and the story is spread out in little pieces, so I want books where that main plot is happening. 

Unfortunately the main plot this time is fixing the timeline, and that's a big red flag to me that they can change anything. Confirmed when Superman Reborn happened. They changed the universe history in the middle of ongoing. I hate that. Then Tom King started reinserting classic history, and previous continuities are teased during The Button, so I was like, nope! Figure this out first, dum dums! Don't sell me a world that's still in draft form!  

So ideally, I wanna wait until things settle down. Even though I know it can take years, so who knows when I will get back to the main DCU. I'm still paying attention though, because once things settle down, the high selling stories stand a good chance of remaining canon. I just don't wanna pay them for a work in progress.

----------


## Caivu

> Unfortunately the main plot this time is fixing the timeline, and that's a big red flag to me that they can change anything. Confirmed when Superman Reborn happened. They changed the universe history in the middle of ongoing. I hate that. Then Tom King started reinserting classic history, and previous continuities are teased during The Button, so I was like, nope! Figure this out first, dum dums! Don't sell me a world that's still in draft form!


If that's a worry for you, then you don't really have to worry when it comes to Kate. She's one of the more consistent Big Two characters in terms of continuity, since she's never been rebooted and anything that _is_ in question can be slotted out very easily without getting snarled on anything. Plus her only retcons have been additive.

----------


## Caivu

By Tressina Bowling:

IMG_20180407_201727.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Marco Checchetto:

Screenshot_20180407-111201.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @tollbirds on IG:

Screenshot_20180406-183029.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @foresakenfaerie, also on IG:

Screenshot_20180407-202330.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Multiversity ran a poll that began around Passover and was somewhat in honor of it, and now that it's over, guess who won?

Screenshot_20180408-014615.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @cindy.ye on IG:

Screenshot_20180405-174943.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Nigel Lewis:

Screenshot_20180408-081927.jpg

----------


## Assam

> Multiversity ran a poll that began around Passover and was somewhat in honor of it, and now that it's over, guess who won?
> 
> Screenshot_20180408-014615.jpg


Not surprising. Equally unsurprising that both of my favorite Jewish heroes weren't even included in the poll.

----------


## Caivu

> Not surprising. Equally unsurprising that both of my favorite Jewish heroes weren't even included in the poll.


I thought Harley might have taken it. Or Thing, or Magneto.

Who's missing?

----------


## Assam

> Who's missing?


A bunch of characters, but the ones I was specifically referring to as my faves were Gim Allon and Albert Rothstein.

----------


## Caivu

By Kris Anka:

IMG_20180408_105421.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Jeffery Edwards:

Screenshot_20180408-195909.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Raye Minamino:

Screenshot_20180409-010511.jpg

----------


## Caivu

WIP by Fernando Blanco and John Rauch:

Screenshot_20180409-024413.jpg

----------


## Caivu

More Blanco WIP:

IMG_20180409_113919.jpg

----------


## Caivu

So, amazingly, Batwoman #13 sold slightly more than #12! 359 issues, to be exact. Not a lot, but that's still really encouraging.

----------


## Twice-named

> So, amazingly, Batwoman #13 sold slightly more than #12! 359 issues, to be exact. Not a lot, but that's still really encouraging.


I wonder if it was the Lee Bermejo variant.

----------


## Caivu

Maybe, but whatever. It's a gain, however small.

----------


## Caivu

By Michelle Sciuto:

Screenshot_20180409-202149.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Megan Rose Gedris:

Screenshot_20180409-203832.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Elena Casagrande:

Batwoman_by_elena-casagrande.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Today is National Siblings Day!

IMG_20180410_101134.jpg

IMG_20180410_101128.jpg

Screenshot_20180410-100634.jpg

----------


## millernumber1

> Today is National Siblings Day!
> 
> IMG_20180410_101134.jpg
> 
> IMG_20180410_101128.jpg
> 
> Screenshot_20180410-100634.jpg


Awww. I wish we had more of this.

----------


## Caivu

r/comicbooks is hosting an AMA with JHWIII in about half an hour from this post.

----------


## Caivu

The AMA is basically done, and there was a bit more info on the original intentions of the first series.

Basically, Sophie, now working for the FBI, would have re-entered Kate's life due to her DEO work. Renee was going to appear sometime around the third year of the book. Both would have caused some awkwardness with Maggie also in the picture.

----------


## Twice-named

> The AMA is basically done, and there was a bit more info on the original intentions of the first series.
> 
> Basically, Sophie, now working for the FBI, would have re-entered Kate's life due to her DEO work. Renee was going to appear sometime around the third year of the book. Both would have caused some awkwardness with Maggie also in the picture.


It’s very exciting to learn more about what they had planned but also painful. I love his comment about getting to know Kate as a real person. That’s why she’s my favorite and why I read her stories over and over again. I would love to see Williams on Kate’s book again or some project with her but I understand why he doesn’t want to work with DC. Hopefully, that will change at some point like it did with Rucka.

----------


## Bat-Meal

> The AMA is basically done, and there was a bit more info on the original intentions of the first series.
> 
> Basically, Sophie, now working for the FBI, would have re-entered Kate's life due to her DEO work. Renee was going to appear sometime around the third year of the book. Both would have caused some awkwardness with Maggie also in the picture.


Meh, 'all' the ladies lusting after Kate, sounds silly to me, but at least they aren't villains.

The current series Safiya's obsession with Kate is annoying enough.  Kate got sexually harassed/assaulted by villains a bit too much in the original solo too, with no emotional repercussions adequately addressed, if at all.

----------


## Caivu

> I love his comment about getting to know Kate as a real person. That’s why she’s my favorite and why I read her stories over and over again.


Same here. I think most of the reasons I like her could fall under that description.

----------


## Caivu

> Meh, 'all' the ladies lusting after Kate, sounds silly to me, but at least they aren't villains.


There wasn't anything mentioned about them "lusting" after her, just that they would resurface.




> The current series Safiya's obsession with Kate is annoying enough.


She wasn't the obsessed one.




> Kate got sexually harassed/assaulted by villains a bit too much in the original solo too, with no emotional repercussions adequately addressed, if at all.


True, but that kinda fits with Kate's character either way. She either "soldiered on", or went back to seeing her psychiatrist.

----------


## Caivu

By Daniel HDR:

Screenshot_20180411-012612.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Rhylin James Doman:

Screenshot_20180410-174236.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Fernando Blanco WIP:

IMG_20180411_123032.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Michael Cho WIP:

Screenshot_20180411-164151.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Lucas G. Linhares:

Screenshot_20180411-164336.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

Niiiiiiice!!!

----------


## Caivu

Yep. I've noticed a significant uptick of Batwoman fanart recently, and it's all great.

----------


## Caivu

A bit more of that Cho cover:

Screenshot_20180411-184351.jpg

----------


## Caivu

The final piece by Daniel HDR:

Screenshot_20180411-175520.jpg

----------


## Caivu

The LA GLAAD Media Awards ceremony is tonight, and the comic award is apparently going to be presented there.

----------


## Caivu

Okay, the Batwoman #14 preview pretty much clarifies that Knife has been the mastermind behind this whole operation the entire time. She's definitely responsible for "recruiting" Beth and bringing back her Alice persona.

This is good to have clear, since #13 was just ambiguous enough (at least to me) to have some questions.

----------


## Caivu

Batwoman #16 variant cover by Michael Cho:

batwoman-16-Michael-Cho-600x904.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Victoria Anderson:

2018_365_challenge:_Day_101_by_Miss-Arcadia.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Even more of Cho's #17 (probably) variant:

Screenshot_20180411-225427.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @thepaintingpigeon on IG:

Screenshot_20180412-032507.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Seems like the comic award wasn't presented tonight, so it'll be at the New York ceremony on May 5th.

----------


## Caivu

The finished, but not full, Cho variant for #17 (probably).

IMG_20180412_221002.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Chandra Free:

IMG_20180412_221049.jpg

----------


## Caivu

> Seems like the comic award wasn't presented tonight, so it'll be at the New York ceremony on May 5th.


Oooor not. I just heard that Black Panther: World of Wakanda won. Congrats!

And, suspiciously, CBR left Batwoman, and _only_ Batwoman, off their list of nominees.

Screenshot_20180413-102922.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By CWMax:

Screenshot_20180413-031845.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @cutter-irre on Tumblr:

5182242b-b6f5-4eeb-88ee-2bb4ca6e926b.jpg

----------


## Caivu

I'd be remiss to not commemorate this moment today:

Screenshot_20180413-101413.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

Lol!

10 char

----------


## Caivu

Yep. It was also National Kissing Day today, but there aren't enough image slots available to add in every lady Kate's kissed.

----------


## Caivu

By Riza Türker:

IMG_20180414_115246.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @geky_sk_art on IG:

Screenshot_20180414-121439.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Cameron Norbert:

Screenshot_20180414-200753.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Jason O. Jimenez:

Screenshot_20180414-200844.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Ricardo Sales:

Screenshot_20180414-230135.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Ruhi Vij:

Screenshot_20180415-102530.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Tony S. Daniel:

Screenshot_20180415-180951.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Fernando Blanco working on a commission:

IMG_20180415_205718.jpg

Haven't seen the finished piece anywhere yet.

----------


## Caivu

By @whispering_winnow on IG:

Screenshot_20180415-181015.jpg

----------


## Caivu

downloadfile-3.jpg

*BATWOMAN #17*

written by MARGUERITE BENNETT
art by FERNANDO BLANCO
cover by DAN PANOSIAN
variant cover by MICHAEL CHO

Kate Kane's latest assignment is leaving her cold-it's a cold case that forces her to team up with GCPD Detective Renee Montoya, and which, as usual, has Gotham City running out of time. Is this the start of a beautiful crime-fighting partnership? No spoilers, but expect sparks and punches to fly!

ON SALE 07.18.18
$3.99 US | 32 PAGES
FC | RATED T+

----------


## Caivu

By Kieran Bates:

Screenshot_20180416-203837.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Keith Haugen:

Screenshot_20180417-090304.jpg

----------


## Mataza

> By Ricardo Sales:
> 
> Screenshot_20180414-230135.jpg


I thought it was Batgirl at first. Anyway, i really like it.

----------


## Caivu

Yep, it's the lack of a noseguard (or at least a smaller one).

----------


## Caivu

Greg Rucka and Michael Lark are doing an AMA, and of course some stuff relevant to this thread got brought up.

Screenshot_20180417-151430.jpg

Screenshot_20180417-164702.jpg

I really love this attitude, the recognition that he's too close to the situation to be objective and that even though Kate has (in his opinion) drastically changed, that's not necessarily a bad thing, or something that needs correcting.

I find it especially interesting that he thinks the more major changes to Kate happened under Williams and Blackman. I don't agree at all that Kate has changed fundamentally, since I see no evidence for that, but their work is definitely not where I would point to.

----------


## Caivu

By Cat Staggs:

IMG_20180417_175150.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Lark also mentioned an interesting thing in the AMA. When he drew Helena as Batwoman in the recent Annual #2, the costume was supposed to be a different design, but he refused to do so since DC hasn't compensated him for using some of his previous designs for toys.

----------


## Caivu

Batman #47 variant cover by Amanda Conner:

IMG_20180417_203057.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Victor Santos:

IMG_20180418_095509.jpg

----------


## Man-Thing

Well damn, that was an issue, wasn't it? I feel like they did a good job of tying various things back together, making it feel much more like a cohesive whole. Was a bit exposition heavy but eh.

----------


## Caivu

> Well damn, that was an issue, wasn't it? I feel like they did a good job of tying various things back together, making it feel much more like a cohesive whole.


Absolutely. It's pulling a little from all segments of Kate's history, though mainly this series and Elegy.  I loved how the stuff with Crane wasn't just some random detour, but purposeful. And it's cool that the theme of cycles is being continued by having both sisters be infection vectors on the city: recreating both Alice's first attack and Kate's infection of Coryana. I love it. It's both a meticulous and scattershot plan.




> Was a bit exposition heavy but eh.


That's something I've noticed throughout the series as I've reread. It happens a bunch, and for how complex the story is, it's probably necessary. I think it's been pretty cleverly hidden (or at least justified):
- Julia does it when she's trying to get Kate refocused, by stating the mission objectives.
- Kate's been doing it in her thoughts and now in her speech to show how frazzled she is. She was almost flat-out babbling while talking to Julia this issue.
- Knife has done it to hide her true nature from Alice and keep her under control.

----------


## Caivu

By Guile Sharp and Gwenaëlle Daligault:

Screenshot_20180418-183340.jpg

----------


## Caivu

From #14, a new feature of Kate's suit: the gloves are heat-resistant to at least around 1000 degrees C.

Screenshot_20180419-015630.jpg

Example_incandescence_colors_(temperature_range_550_-_1300_C).svg.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Fernando Blanco WIP:

IMG_20180419_103725.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Guess who's getting an official Lego minifig?

b680c5d.jpg

41juzfjf32lobsb9.jpg

----------


## Man-Thing

Ahhhhhhh! <3

hwelp, time to go order yet another LEGO set

----------


## Caivu

No kidding. I still haven't even bought her action figure yet. It's a good problem to have.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Guess who's getting an official Lego minifig?
> 
> b680c5d.jpg
> 
> 41juzfjf32lobsb9.jpg


Who's the villain there? ...Oh is that OMAC and Brother Eye?

----------


## Caivu

> Who's the villain there? ...Oh is that OMAC and Brother Eye?


Right on both.

----------


## Caivu

By Yale Stewart:

Screenshot_20180420-010442.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By NOORA:

BATWOMAN_by_NOORA_(04192018)_by_rodelsm21.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Fernando Blanco WIP:

Screenshot_20180420-115006.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Robert Carey:

d44cd6ce-fbad-4d52-8dff-d813923ed853.jpg

----------


## TheCape

bat_sitting_by_scarykrystal-da6cbbk.jpg
This is pretty funny.

----------


## Caivu

ScaryKrystal! I love her. She's done a bunch of Batwoman and Question art.

----------


## Caivu

By @jullyfishhuman on Twitter:

IMG_20180421_005228.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Kieran Morris:

batwoman_by_kieranmorris-d689ct0.jpg

----------


## Caivu

JHWIII's cover to Batman Inc. #4 ended up being rather prescient of Kate and Bruce's current roles:

d5cdb445-cc23-4d75-aff4-3b1f9eb3e7a9.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By jacksony22 on DA:

Screenshot_20180421-221818.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Daniel Campos:

BATWOMAN_by_stalk.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Robert Lee:

Screenshot_20180422-113855.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Oliver Nome:

Screenshot_20180422-114102.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Hayden Scott:

Screenshot_20180422-212353.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Paul Renaud:

Batwoman_by_PaulRenaud.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Joel Gomez:

Screenshot_20180422-210115.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Fernando Blanco WIP:

IMG_20180423_104413.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Charles Holbert Jr.:

BATWOMAN_by_KidNotorious.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Josh Ruud:

Screenshot_20180422-205954.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Paris Alleyne:

Screenshot_20180423-022330.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

> By Paris Alleyne:
> 
> Screenshot_20180423-022330.jpg


That's really cool. The colors are especially neat.

----------


## Caivu

Yeah, the sheen of the suit is more apparent than it usually seems to be.

----------


## Caivu

By Joseph Giampietro:

Screenshot_20180422-210030.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By TJ Frias:

DC_Hotties:_Batwoman_by_guinnessyde.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

> By TJ Frias:
> 
> DC_Hotties:_Batwoman_by_guinnessyde.jpg


Niiiiice!!

----------


## Caivu

By Gus Vazquez:

Batwoman_52_by_Uncle-Gus.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Cedric Poulat:

Screenshot_20180423-022242.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Julien Hugonnard:

IMG_20180425_094129.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Fernando Blanco WIP:

IMG_20180425_141112.jpg

This series has had MGS in its blood for a while, but now they're not holding back. Love it.

----------


## Caivu

By @sneakyy_pie on Twitter:

IMG_20180425_165440.jpg

Batwoman Ninja!

Technically onna-bugeisha but whatever

Edit - and the colored version:

IMG_20180425_173339.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Another by Charles Holbert, Jr.:

Screenshot_20180422-205633.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Two variations by Eldin Pahi:

141fa92c-d7f4-4a1f-9673-05a4d0f4e24d.jpg

1b48da0b-9091-46a7-80bf-63276ea77461.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Joc Mark:

Screenshot_20180426-030051.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Batwoman #17 variant cover by Michael Cho:

STL086536.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Allen Watson:

Screenshot_20180426-153439.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @cecinne on Twitter, done for Lesbian Visibility Day today:

IMG_20180426_202049.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @luckystar_art on IG:

Screenshot_20180426-153404.jpg

----------


## Caivu

I made another small edit, this time to #934 to retroactively account for "Batwoman Begins":

IMG_20180426_151535.jpg

----------


## Katana500

Caivu you know everything about Batwoman  :Smile:  

What is the story with Red Alice? Is she meant to be good or bad?

----------


## Caivu

> Caivu you know everything about Batwoman  
> 
> What is the story with Red Alice? Is she meant to be good or bad?


Heh, thanks.

Red Alice starts in Batwoman #35. She's supposed to still be the Alice persona, but good. Right now Beth has recovered enough that she's normally free of Alice altogether.

----------


## Caivu

By @keegan.sketch on IG:

Screenshot_20180426-153512.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Jim Zub:

IMG_20180427_165820.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By David Williams:

Screenshot_20180427-103216.jpg

----------


## sdc27

This artist is wonderful - found this Steampunk Batwoman she drew

----------


## Caivu

Yeah, I remember that one. Great piece. LuckyStar's a fantastic artist.

Here's another:

il_570xN.1179973292_pnec.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Charles Holbert, Jr. and Vincent Pizarro:

Batwoman_by_KidNotorious_by_VPizarro626.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Emil Nordtømme:

Screenshot_20180427-212408.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Shadia Amin:

IMG_20180428_191130.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By LizCoshizzle on DA:

Screenshot_20180428-134600.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By hanukara on DA:

Screenshot_20180422-113827.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Austen Marie:

IMG_20180429_173415.jpg

----------


## Caivu

WIP by Mike Hailey:

Screenshot_20180429-204724.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Tressina and Daniel Bowling:

IMG_20180430_163425.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Michelle Sciuto:

3c897401-1fd3-48c1-9915-b607871a5174.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Fernando Blanco WIP:

IMG_20180501_102429.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @mondo.no on IG:

Screenshot_20180501-141707.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By dklem on Tumblr:

99db633d-4208-4e0f-a0e0-36274b4b21de.jpg

----------


## Caivu

I'm modeling Knife's swords from issue #14.

a032780c-4a9a-4412-a2f9-c2e79be2555f.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Batcats. By @_mysonshine_ on Twitter.

8807f3bd-ee49-45c4-9253-a3475d05755b.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Heri Leyva:

Screenshot_20180502-112711.jpg

----------


## Caivu

The final #15 covers, by Dan Panosian and Rafael Grampá, respectively:

IMG_20180502_171834.jpg

IMG_20180502_171827.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Michelle Sciuto:

a6478331-828b-475b-822c-a4be38e31ee2.jpg

----------


## Caivu

The finished Heri Leyva piece from earlier:

Screenshot_20180503-033523.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Rodrigo Martins dos Santos:

batwoman_by_adagadegelo-dcahsn8.jpg

----------


## bat_girl_cc

> By Robert Lee:
> 
> Attachment 65002


her face, ahah, also beautiful art!

----------


## Caivu

By John Osborne:

Screenshot_20180504-011927.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Two friends on DeviantArt decided to redraw each other's old art, and one of them was a Batwoman piece.

The original by TheUnsungTrouvere:

Batwoman!_by_TheUnsungTrouvere.jpg

And the redraw by Nightlovesbirds:

Screenshot_20180502-134829.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Harold Edge:

Screenshot_20180503-123530.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @ultearlight on IG:

Screenshot_20180504-202142.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

> By Rodrigo Martins dos Santos:
> 
> batwoman_by_adagadegelo-dcahsn8.jpg





> By John Osborne:
> 
> Screenshot_20180504-011927.jpg


These are really cool

----------


## Caivu

I like the blue and violet in that second one especially. Feels very 80s.

----------


## Caivu

By Dustan Bradley:

Screenshot_20180505-090144.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Dave Stokes:

tumblr_m3ysdhsQxt1qisas1o1_1280.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Christian Wildgoose:

Screenshot_20180505-164152.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By apathenapromachus on Tumblr:

de5ab3f0-33ef-4f12-97d3-180a161f9e39.jpg

----------


## Caivu

The finished Mike Hailey piece from earlier:

Screenshot_20180506-171705.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Simona Kanellou:

Screenshot_20180506-171437.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

> By Dave Stokes:
> 
> tumblr_m3ysdhsQxt1qisas1o1_1280.jpg





> By Simona Kanellou:
> 
> Screenshot_20180506-171437.jpg


I really like these. Very cool

----------


## Caivu

> I really like these. Very cool


That first one in particular is pretty interesting since it predates Rebirth, I think.

----------


## Caivu

By Cat Staggs:

IMG_20180505_164041.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Detective Comics #980 adds a few more trivia bits about Kate: she's a troper and a Beatles fan. Both are totally believable given her canon tastes in music and fiction.

----------


## Caivu

By Amy Reeder:

IMG_20180507_084050.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Francis Portella:

Screenshot_20180507-215843.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @tigerz_and_nerds on IG:

Screenshot_20180507-094731.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Something interesting: Sal Cipriano, who lettered most if not all of Rebirth 'Tec, reviews the Batwoman Multiverse figure.

----------


## millernumber1

> Something interesting: Sal Cipriano, who lettered most if not all of Rebirth 'Tec, reviews the Batwoman Multiverse figure.


Very interesting review. I am curious to know if he does any commentary about lettering on the channel, or if it's all action figures (and if he'll do a Steph review once that figure comes out in the Fall  :Smile:  ).

The figure itself looks pretty great (even if I'm still more a fan of the J. H. Williams head rather than the Barrows/Martinez head, because of the hair).

----------


## Caivu

It seems that channel is only for toy-related stuff. Maybe he has another channel.

----------


## Maxpower00044

> By Amy Reeder:
> 
> IMG_20180507_084050.jpg



If this is from FCBD, thats my LCS. To keep this relevant, Ive been enjoying the current run and Blanco has been killing it on art. I see him moving up the ranks sooner than later. 

Edit: Just checked her Instagram, thats definitely my LCS.

----------


## Caivu

> If this is from FCBD, that’s my LCS. To keep this relevant, I’ve been enjoying the current run and Blanco has been killing it on art. I see him moving up the ranks sooner than later. 
> 
> Edit: Just checked her Instagram, that’s definitely my LCS.


Very cool!

I'm waiting for Blanco to do the inevitable Midnighter/Batwoman teamup, seeing as he's drawn for both of their series.

----------


## Caivu

Michael Cho posted some of his rough sketches and unused ideas for his variant covers. He also said he just turned in his final cover for the series.

IMG_20180508_154044.jpg

IMG_20180508_154116.jpg

IMG_20180508_154055.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Continued.

IMG_20180508_154100.jpg

IMG_20180508_154106.jpg

IMG_20180508_154119.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Last one, which might be my favorite:

IMG_20180508_154124.jpg

----------


## Caivu

I really don't like where the apparent foreshadowing in this week's 'Tec is pointing. Namely, that Kate is going to be benched for some reason or even get killed.

Maybe that 's just paranoia. It probably is. But this feels different somehow.

----------


## Caivu

By Glynnis Koike (aka inkydandy):

Screenshot_20180509-023143.jpg

----------


## Caivu

I made some concept posters for a hypothetical HBO series over the past week or so:

IMG_20180508_190854.jpg

IMG_20180508_191009.jpg

I try to do some kind of warmup before work, and these were as good a thing as any.

----------


## Caivu

By @batmanluo on IG:

Screenshot_20180509-140902.jpg

----------


## Aahz

Apparently issue 18 will be the last.


https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/05/09/dc-comics-to-cancel-batwoman-in-august/

----------


## Caivu

Emphasis on "apparently". That TPB blurb has been out there for months and could very well be wrong. I want to hear something official.

----------


## Caivu

By NOORA:

BATWOMAN_by_NOORA_(05092018)_by_rodelsm21.jpg

----------


## Man-Thing

> Emphasis on "apparently". That TPB blurb has been out there for months and could very well be wrong. I want to hear something official.


Worrying  :Frown:

----------


## Caivu

> Worrying


Yep. If it _does_ go past #18, it won't be many more. But squeaking through to #20 would bring it to October, and that could allow for an Annual, and that would be enough to make up a slim fourth trade. So I'm still hopeful, dumb as it may be.

----------


## Caivu

By Cat Staggs:

IMG_20180505_164047.jpg

----------


## Man-Thing

> Yep. If it _does_ go past #18, it won't be many more. But squeaking through to #20 would bring it to October, and that could allow for an Annual, and that would be enough to make up a slim fourth trade. So I'm still hopeful, dumb as it may be.


Anything they could bundle in for padding, ala the Secret Origins stuff they put into that Andreyko trade?

----------


## Caivu

> Anything they could bundle in for padding, ala the Secret Origins stuff they put into that Andreyko trade?


Maybe "Batwoman Begins" if they were _really_ in need of filler. It'd be dumb, but that would make for the equivalent of six issues.

Maybe script samples, sketches, process shots, concept art? But we're getting way ahead of things.

----------


## Caivu

By J. Giner:

IMG_20180510_110317.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Patrick Lacarda:

Screenshot_20180508-181409.jpg

----------


## Caivu

This isn't venting, really, since I'm not angry, but whatever.

After the "news" of the cancellation dropped yesterday, I've found out that a fair number of people I know of who I thought were fans of hers... aren't actually fans of _her_. They just want monster fighting or something, I dunno. I like that stuff, but it's just wallpaper. She's so much more than that, and it's discouraging that more people than I thought haven't latched onto Kate herself.

It feeds the misconception that Kate's boring or useless, which I'm beyond tired of hearing because I know that's not true. I'm frustrated that she can't be summarized as easily as most of the other Bat characters. That's one reason I think she's not catching on like she should, because it's hard to describe her in a few sentences.

----------


## Caivu

By Yolanda Ruiz:

Screenshot_20180511-024457.jpg

----------


## Caivu

The finished J. Giner piece:

IMG_20180511_102715.jpg

----------


## Celgress

> The finished J. Giner piece:
> 
> IMG_20180511_102715.jpg


Very nice this is an artistically pleasing pic if I ever saw one. Nice use of darker color tones.  :Cool: 

PS I don't think there is a single member of the "Bat Family" I don't like, expect maybe Damian but even he is growing on me.

----------


## Caivu

Yeah, I don't get how some people can just outright dislike certain members. They all have _something_ interesting about them, at least. 
The worst is when one is hated for something that another one also does but doesn't get grief for. Be consistent, at least.

----------


## Caivu

By Craig Cermak:

IMG_20180511_131730.jpg

Kate looks so annoyed. She's not even cuffed!

----------


## Caivu

By David Yett:

Screenshot_20180511-141201.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Brian Tyson:

Screenshot_20180510-114037.jpg

----------


## Man-Thing

Well there goes any chance of a coherent timeline out the window. Ugh... how many pages back is that giant timeline dissection I did? I obviously needs another pass now...

----------


## Caivu

> Well there goes any chance of a coherent timeline out the window. Ugh... how many pages back is that giant timeline dissection I did? I obviously needs another pass now...


I don't think it's absolutely 100% shattered, but it's going to take some wrangling and study if there's a way it can work.

----------


## Caivu

By Tyler Boss:

IMG_20180511_164632.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By nojuro on Tumblr:

06baedb1-132c-4240-b92b-68eb06f45f12.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @shin_ttt on Twitter:

d44f2067-c31c-4f66-b2a2-1670ddfcf79b.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Head84 on DA:

Miss_Kane....._by_Head84.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Sébastien Barré:

Screenshot_20180512-140900.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Fernando Blanco and John Rauch WIP:

Screenshot_20180513-021906.jpg

Screenshot_20180513-021948.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Ben Vazquez:

Screenshot_20180512-224830.jpg

----------


## Caivu

In honor of Mother's Day...

Gabi Kane, who taught Kate the value of personal responsibility, which she has carried through her whole life.

e30f40fc-72b2-42f6-a55a-04ea095bb07f.jpg

20ad0571-f040-4db9-a4d2-1c9af724b409.jpg

And, in the Bombshells universe, Kate and Maggie, who had a daughter after the war.

RCO018 (20).jpg

That last one breaks me a bit, since I've thought for a long time that the text supports that main-U Kate would both want to be a mother and be terrified of having a repeat of what happened to her own mom.

----------


## Restingvoice

Batwoman Begins said Kate became Batwoman two years ago, and Batwoman Rebirth #1 marked her as twenty-seven when she became Batwoman. So is she twenty nine now at the most recent issues, or has time passed further since then?

----------


## Caivu

> Batwoman Begins said Kate became Batwoman two years ago, and Batwoman Rebirth #1 marked her as twenty-seven when she became Batwoman. So is she twenty nine now at the most recent issues, or has time passed further since then?


The preview for #15 explicitly says that Kate was 25 when Alice first attacked Gotham. And issue #13 says that Kate's old home in Brussels has been abandoned for 15 years. So Kate's 27 now. Maybe 28.

That's, to be frank, absurd. Pure nonsense. It wouldn't be so bad if there was some indication that Kate was _supposed_ to be missing time due to Rebirth, but there's just... not. So she was apparently de-aged at least 5 years for literally no reason.

----------


## Caivu

By Maik Harau:

Screenshot_20180512-225510.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Okay, I think I figured out the timeline issue. It's not as elegant as it was before, and it introduces quite a bit of sloppiness that requires some wrangling and inferences to make some things make sense, but it does work out as far as I know:

- "Intelligence" happens
- First six weeks of Kate's mission (didn't start until then due to logistics/prep or whatever)
- Kate stops over in the States for a quick break, "ALPoL" happens
- Kate leaves, first solo arc happens within the three-week gap in 'Tec #969
- "FotB" happens, Kate kills Clayface on a Monday.
- Leaves Gotham, second solo arc up until now happens.
- A few days to cool down from everything (especially Alice's attack)
- Kate's trial and her joining the Colony happen on the second Friday after Clayface's death.

This all falls apart again if issues or #15 or #16 say Kate's joined the Colony, because there really, truly, honestly is no time for that to have happened yet in her solo.

----------


## Caivu

By Luciano Vecchio:

Screenshot_20180513-185624.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By David Yett:

Screenshot_20180512-004648.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By tenacioustheoristnightmare on Tumblr:

cef737f3-afbe-4749-9687-4bd814c7ef64.jpg

----------


## Caivu

An apparent closeup of the upcoming minifig has leaked.

IMG_20180514_134644.jpg

And a couple of older customs, for comparison:

s-l300.jpg

batwoman_web_front_main__50129.1458419141.380.380.jpg

I don't like that the official figure won't apparently have boots. But the head piece is by far the most accurate  (I wish it was slightly shorter so it doesn't touch the mouth). The torso decal is also the best; accurate symbol and appropriately muscled.

----------


## Caivu

By LyckyStar:

Screenshot_20180514-131124.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Laura Braga:

d060d3e9-0a23-4c92-92fd-d6219f1dd7dc.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Valeria Viero:

Screenshot_20180515-143454.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @ryaaankyle on IG:

Screenshot_20180515-190202.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Rachel Ward:

Screenshot_20180516-011024.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @littlemadihan_ on IG:

Screenshot_20180515-143422.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Kate was further confirmed as a troper this week, by mentioning Hannibal Lecture. Interestingly, though, the thing she was describing as such wasn't an actual example of that trope.

----------


## Caivu

By Matias Rivero:

Screenshot_20180516-011100.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Tavo Quiros:

Screenshot_20180516-213156.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Posted in its own thread, but worth a mention here, too:

http://ew.com/tv/2018/05/17/cw-super...over-batwoman/

Right now my happiness about getting her in live action is outweighing the fact she's on the CW.

----------


## Caivu

Fernando Blanco WIP:

IMG_20180517_103703.jpg

I'm so glad she finally looks happy.

----------


## Zudomon

I'm excited!!  I honestly think the CW hasn't really been awful with their characters.  While some of the shows definitely went downhill in quality, for the most part the individual characters are great as are the actors!

----------


## Caivu

> I'm excited!!  I honestly think the CW hasn't really been awful with their characters.  While some of the shows definitely went downhill in quality, for the most part the individual characters are great as are the actors!


I've never watched any of their shows, nor am I super familiar with most of their characters, so I can't say in either case. I'm more worried about chintziness and bad acting than anything. Kate's a complex character, but not to the point of being inscrutable.
In other words, I'll worry for real when and if they give me reason to.

----------


## Caivu

@kimxtrini on Twitter designed a CW concept suit:

IMG_20180517_193903.jpg

I really like that for the most part. It draws from the Sideshow statue. I'd only want the red arm and leg stripes removed so it looks less motorcycle-y, and a more comic-accurate batsymbol. Maybe have the gray a few notches darker. But this is really cool.

----------


## Caivu

By Scott Dalrymple:

IMG_20180517_184310.jpg

----------


## Caivu

This was pretty funny:

Screenshot_20180517-122155.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Grzegorz Pawlak:

Screenshot_20180518-090751.jpg

----------


## Caivu

A couple by Aerosera:

Screenshot_20180518-230224.jpg

Left from about January 2017, right from yesterday in honor of the CW news.

----------


## Bat-Meal

> This was pretty funny:
> 
> Screenshot_20180517-122155.jpg


Lol, that edited pic makes it look like she's blocking the out others and being an attention hog.

----------


## Caivu

> Lol, that edited pic makes it look like she's blocking the out others and being an attention hog.


Honestly, for a crossover? That's not a terrible idea, necessarily. If they write her correctly and cast a charismatic actress, that could easily happen.

----------


## Caivu

By Jack Kotz:

Screenshot_20180519-133723.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Fernando Blanco WIP:

IMG_20180519_173751.jpg

Kinda ominous.

----------


## Oberon

I enjoy the CW shows but don't get overly involved/fan-ish. They are a bit formulaic - some plots are very typical bait and switch stuff.  But acting tends to be good, the actors/characters seem to have chemistry, etc. They all could use more budget for some other CGI stuff. That's about it.

----------


## Caivu

By @aavaeika on IG:

Screenshot_20180516-142528.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Thomas Hedglen:

Screenshot_20180520-193231.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Jules Victor:

Screenshot_20180520-193039.jpg

----------


## Caivu

IMG_20180521_162636.jpg

*BATWOMAN #18*

written by MARGUERITE BENNETT
art by FERNANDO BLANCO
cover by DAN PANOSIAN
variant cover by MICHAEL CHO

It’s the series finale, and there’s a lot of drama to resolve for Kate Kane, both in and out of costume. As Batwoman, she teams with Renee Montoya to thwart Clock King’s latest time-bending enterprise: selling a drug that allows criminals to know if their crime will be successful—before it’s committed. But Batwoman’s facing a quandary to boot: Take this drug off the street, or use it herself to stop crime? The only fight tougher is the personal one: Should Kate and Renee give their relationship another chance?

ON SALE 08.15.18
$3.99 US | 32 PAGES
FC | RATED T+
FINAL ISSUE

Welp, seems confirmed.
Odd place to end, but a spinoff sounds possible. Very odd that Kate sounds like she'll be debating whether or not to use drugs to benefit herself. When has that ever gone right for her? She's smarter than that.

----------


## Caivu

By Joe Higgins:

Screenshot_20180520-193130.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Amy Reeder:

IMG_20180520_205956.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Rouz Gonzalez:

Screenshot_20180522-031720.jpg

----------


## millernumber1

> IMG_20180521_162636.jpg
> 
> *BATWOMAN #18*
> 
> written by MARGUERITE BENNETT
> art by FERNANDO BLANCO
> cover by DAN PANOSIAN
> variant cover by MICHAEL CHO
> 
> ...


I would be 100% on board with a Question title featuring Kate.  :Smile:

----------


## Caivu

> I would be 100% on board with a Question title featuring Kate.


Same. Maybe all this time stuff in the last two issues makes Renee remember.

----------


## millernumber1

> Same. Maybe all this time stuff in the last two issues makes Renee remember.


I doubt it - it was all data driven, not metaphysical. But I wouldn't be surprised if Kate showed her. Renee seeing the events of 52 and Pipeline would be...very interesting.  :Smile:

----------


## Caivu

By Bree King:

Screenshot_20180521-191439.jpg

----------


## Oberon

It is sad that yet again Batwoman is being canceled.

I wonder if it was known this would be, before the CW had planned to put BW into their TV universe?

I'd like to think that they were impressed enough with the character and the way she'd play with their other characters, rather

than a ploy to make her more visible to help her comics sales.  That just never works that way. I've found that folks I know who are readers close/er to my age just don't read (comics) as much - and prefer the various other media depictions.

my problem is resolving the differences between the two medias.   For one, I'm pretty sure that Batwoman will keep her sexual orientation in the CW, but pretty sure that her long and nuanced story would only be served well by a dedicated show or main/recurring character.

----------


## Caivu

That'd be an awful dramatic move to save a comic, so I agree. If they wanted to do that, they could have just started promoting it literally at all.

I've actually started a campaign of sorts to contact the current Arrowverse EPs about this, politely telling them how important Kate is and how much it means to portray her as accurately as possible. May not work, but it definitely won't if there's no attempt.

----------


## Caivu

> I doubt it - it was all data driven, not metaphysical. But I wouldn't be surprised if Kate showed her. Renee seeing the events of 52 and Pipeline would be...very interesting.


I meant the Clock King stuff in the solo.

----------


## Man-Thing

aw butts  :Frown: 

I agree that a Question comic co-starring Kate would be cool.

I also feel a little cheated out of the promise that Bette was going to be used, like, at all.

This run feels longer than it is, being paired up with Tec as it was, so I guess there's that to consider, getting what amounts to three issues a month instead of one, but the Tec run is also ending. All in all though, this combined Tec/Batwoman run is an impressive 72ish issues, give or take, depending on how you're counting. And that's not taking into account appearances in other titles, like when the team showed up over in Red Hood.

As they say, it was good while it lasted...

----------


## Caivu

Yeah, I'd have to do the exact math, but Rebirth has accounted for close to 40% of Kate's total main-U appearances, which is wild.

I hope the message DC takes from this is not that Batwoman needs to be more like a typical superhero comic/character. That's a big part of why I like her and her stories. There are so many other directions that can be done with her, all while keeping it character-focused, as usual.

Bette might be an unfortunate casualty of both this and Tynion's run ending. But at least we know what she's doing.

----------


## Caivu

It was World Goth Day today, so why not mark the occasion?

Screenshot_20180522-161733.jpg

----------


## millernumber1

> I meant the Clock King stuff in the solo.


Ah, I see!

----------


## Caivu

Marcio Takara asked Twitter for some ideas for characters to sketch as a cooldown exercise, and picked my suggestion!

IMG_20180522_170716.jpg

----------


## Caivu

I'm happy with where Kate ended up by the end of #981, and I'm very glad she and Bruce are on good terms. Based on what is mentioned in her last scene, a Batwoman/Question spinoff seems a bit more likely.

----------


## Man-Thing

Summing up my thoughts on the issue in the dedicated thread, but does anything in this help solidify any timeline stuff?

----------


## Caivu

> Summing up my thoughts on the issue in the dedicated thread, but does anything in this help solidify any timeline stuff?


Yes! Since the Colony is dissolved by the end of #981, and is still in existence at the current point of Batwoman's solo, logically that current story has to take place after she kills Clayface but before she joins the Colony. I mentioned that a while back, but this seals it. The revised timeline is the one now; kinda sloppy, but possible.

----------


## Caivu

By Vix Wren:

Screenshot_20180523-143950.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Nepa Ynadamas:

Screenshot_20180523-224623.jpg

----------


## Caivu

I noticed that Kate's last two scenes of #981 are a bit of a mirror of her first two in #934. Kinda neat.

----------


## millernumber1

> I noticed that Kate's last two scenes of #981 are a bit of a mirror of her first two in #934. Kinda neat.


Man, Tynion was just on fire with 981. Parallels and connections everywhere. Meticulous construction!

So, do you think the Colony will return? I still think that because it was instituted as being so secret that the president didn't know about it, that if the president disbands it, it doesn't necessarily mean that much.

----------


## Oberon

With a degree of sadness I will be looking forward to this. But Batwoman is a unique character that not just anyone can appreciate. This is not to suggest elitism, or trendiness or anything like that. I honestly feel the character can't possibly be everyone/most' cup of tea. She was never intended to be.  A true rebel, though with a very worthy cause.

It is sad that Bette was ignored as she was; a one page set of cameo panels. But we're going to miss a true gem in Batwoman's continued story per her own book.

----------


## Caivu

> So, do you think the Colony will return? I still think that because it was instituted as being so secret that the president didn't know about it, that if the president disbands it, it doesn't necessarily mean that much.


Not in full force, at least. I can see Prime creating a splinter group from it.

----------


## Caivu

Fernando Blanco WIP:

IMG_20180524_121411.jpg

----------


## Aioros22

So, Caivu, what are your opinions on the near future of the character with the volume closing the current plot threads and Tec shifting gears with a new creative team after "Batmen Eternal"?

----------


## Caivu

> So, Caivu, what are your opinions on the near future of the character with the volume closing the current plot threads and Tec shifting gears with a new creative team after "Batmen Eternal"?


I was really worried that she would be benched in-universe, but that's not the case, so that's good. And since the RoC has popped up again and Renee is coming back, a Batwoman/Question series doesn't seem unlikely.

----------


## Caivu

By Mark Santiago and Jackson Gebien:

Batwoman_by_Mark_Santiago_by_JacksonGebien.jpg

----------


## Caivu

More Renee by Blanco:

IMG_20180525_120932.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Louise Dolan:

Screenshot_20180525-141618.jpg

----------


## Oberon

I may have missed how you know "that's not the case" that BW would be benched?  I never read these comics before Elegy so I have no feelings one way or the other about Renee and the Question. I understand some of this from recounting.  I guess a lot happened in the 52 series for her and then her appearances leading up to Elegy.  The Cutter story is after that, of course and I'm slightly more aware of that.

----------


## Caivu

> I may have missed how you know "that's not the case" that BW would be benched?


Kate's still active as Batwoman. She's not dead, or out do to injurt, or taking some kind of sabbatical.

----------


## Caivu

By Shiqi-0214 on DA:

Screenshot_20180524-162058.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @tigerb103 on IG:

Screenshot_20180525-194903.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Andrew Bayliss:

Screenshot_20180526-131910.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @sutexii on Twitter:

IMG_20180522_103420.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @stayawakeandcreate on IG:

Screenshot_20180526-221600.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Fifth Dimension Props is developing Kate's belt:

Screenshot_20180527-185021.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By JunkiePUNK on DA:

Batwoman_by_JunkiePUNK.jpg

----------


## Caivu

The second TPB is out this week. I hope the corrections to Kate's tattoos are done better this time.

----------


## Caivu

Dave Fowler WIP:

IMG_20180529_004530.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Sebastian Drewniok:

Screenshot_20180529-103634.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Fernando Blanco WIP:

IMG_20180529_131741.jpg

----------


## Caivu

I was going through the pages of Kate's training today, and noticed something.

Screenshot_20180529-161049.jpg
Screenshot_20180529-211141.jpg
Screenshot_20180529-211859.jpg

Yeah... I'm half-convinced that Kate had a small bit of training from Shado. That's just a _little_ too coincidental. But obviously, if something like this isn't extremely clear...

----------


## saiyan_earthling

> I was going through the pages of Kate's training today, and noticed something.
> 
> Screenshot_20180529-161049.jpg
> Screenshot_20180529-211141.jpg
> Screenshot_20180529-211859.jpg
> 
> Yeah... I'm half-convinced that Kate had a small bit of training from Shado. That's just a _little_ too coincidental. But obviously, if something like this isn't extremely clear...


No wonder she was announced to appear in Arrow. Though it'd be cool if she does get her own series.

----------


## Caivu

> No wonder she was announced to appear in Arrow. Though it'd be cool if she does get her own series.


That's the thing, that issue's from almost 4 years ago. There have been other odd connections, too: both the current Batwoman and Green Arrow series have referenced the process of _kintsugi..._

IMG_20180530_101551.jpg
IMG_20180530_101555.jpg

...Emiko was shot in the heart similar to how Kate was stabbed, and there has been a subtle archery motif in Kate's series.
It's all right on the line of being too coincidental but also not explicitly deliberate. Strange.

----------


## Jackalope89

Can't help but wonder that, when Kate appears on Arrow next season, that she'll make a quip on how much Ollie reminds her of her cousin.

----------


## Caivu

Fernando Blanco WIP:

IMG_20180530_104709.jpg

----------


## Caivu

> The second TPB is out this week. I hope the corrections to Kate's tattoos are done better this time.


Apparently not, so I hear.  :Mad:

----------


## Caivu

By Luke Fehring:

Screenshot_20180529-104001.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Avi Kishundat:

Screenshot_20180531-203601.jpg

----------


## Caivu

DC's Pride Month announcement:

Screenshot_20180601-142039.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Jaime Rimmer:

IMG_20180601_152628.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @comicnerdstudio on IG:

Screenshot_20180602-083452.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Gina Donahue:

batwoman__sword_and_sorcery_style_by_speedforcesatori-d6rh4x1.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By PENvsSWORD on DA:

batwoman_by_penvssword-da55902.jpg

----------


## Caivu

There was a good recappy sort of article published a few days ago:

http://ew.com/books/2018/05/30/batwo...-book-origins/

There was one passage in particular I really liked:




> As for why Kane was introduced specifically as Batwoman rather than the latest in a long line of Batgirls, Didio says it was all about securing her a permanent place in the DC canon.
> 
> “It was important for that character to land, and it was important for her to be Kate Kane, because there was already a Batgirl. So if we introduced her as Batgirl she would never be the ‘real’ Batgirl,” Didio says. “That way, it wasn’t something that someone could undo easily.”

----------


## Caivu

By Ben Bolling:

6fa49160-362a-4239-b15a-c72b48a3f331.jpg

----------


## Assam

"That way, it wasn't something that someone could undo easily," he said, knowing full well that at the exact time Kate was being created, he was cancelling Cass's book and turning her into a villain.

----------


## Caivu

> "That way, it wasn't something that someone could undo easily," he said, knowing full well that at the exact time Kate was being created, he was cancelling Cass's book and turning her into a villain.


Heh, I figured you wouldn't like that line!  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Caivu

By Rhiannon Owens:

IMG_20180603_114732.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Marcos Medina:

Screenshot_20180603-181213.jpg

----------


## Caivu

WIP by @MellieArt1987 on Twitter:

IMG_20180604_034316.jpg
IMG_20180604_034313.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @supercheyne on IG:

Screenshot_20180604-164657.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Iain Moore:

Screenshot_20180605-023532.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @mochidayo_ on Twitter:

IMG_20180605_094329.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Fernando Blanco WIP:

IMG_20180605_111004.jpg

Let them get back together, DC. ;_;

----------


## Caivu

By Dylan Macri:

IMG_20180605_125112.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By JRS-ART on DA:

Screenshot_20180605-204641.jpg

----------


## Caivu

This seems like as good a page topper as any: 5.5 pages from a Batwoman pilot script I'm writing for fun.

https://batwomanandmotherpanic.tumbl...n-pilot-script

----------


## Caivu

By @apathenapromachus on Tumblr:

9776e47f-a2e9-4146-a4b7-065dcbdc7bed.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Tim Shinn:

Screenshot_20180606-181605.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Crys Hurford:

Screenshot_20180605-203119.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @yawniverse on Twitter:

IMG_20180607_101133.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Elaine Snowden:

IMG_20180607_101954.jpg

----------


## the illustrious mr. kenway

http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/dream-casting-batwoman

----------


## Caivu

> http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/dream-casting-batwoman


For the most part, I like those choices just on the surface. ERW would be a phenomenal Kate.

Some of the picks are a tiny bit wonky from an age standpoint. Max Martini is only 18 years older than Wood, which isn't terrible, but someone in their mid-50s to early 60s would be better, I think. Klena and Martin are a little too young, as is Mlambo (especially Mlambo; I think some important subtext is lost if Knife's actress is younger than Kate's). 

Nitpicky, I know.

----------


## Caivu

By @MessyPandas on Twitter:

IMG_20180607_203021.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Mark Santiago and Jackson Gebien:

Batwoman_with_gray_tones_by_JacksonGebien.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Travis Summerour:

Screenshot_20180608-024701.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @instagiuseppe on IG:

ed9970d3-4149-46e8-a8c4-37feb8a74c51.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Batwoman #18 variant cover by Michael Cho:

STL088822.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @greatsenpai on Twitter:

IMG_20180609_024157.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Fred Reyes:

Screenshot_20180609-123614.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Chad Heinrich:

IMG_20180609_203526.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Josh Grilli:

IMG_20180609_233920.jpg

----------


## Caivu

More of the earlier piece from @MellieArt1987, including the final:

IMG_20180610_031723.jpg
IMG_20180610_105049.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

> By Chad Heinrich:
> 
> IMG_20180609_203526.jpg


Oh wow, that is awesome!

----------


## Caivu

> Oh wow, that is awesome!


Yeah, hadn't seen much from him in a while.

Did you catch the start of the script I wrote? Top of the previous page.

----------


## Caivu

By @Aka0kami on Twitter:

IMG_20180610_083735.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Jessica Lynn finished some pieces from a while ago:

Screenshot_20180610-224713.jpg

Screenshot_20180610-224744.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Kate finally made one of the Batman #50 variants:

149899f.jpg

By J. Scott Campbell and Peter Steigerwald.

----------


## Caivu

By Macauley Etherington:

Screenshot_20180610-224807.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Claire Letord:

Screenshot_20180610-224845.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Jahnoy Lindsay:

8a599ede-5e4b-47ab-ab0c-4423250e537c.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Matt Simas:

4df0629b-97a5-4027-996b-8ff8cfcbdadd.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Tom Fowler:

ef80d999-d874-4051-8f17-c2a754a6f04c.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Dylan Burnett:

6179981e-1ce5-4f05-9de0-e31fa1536739.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Te'Shawn Dwyer:

ac308640-d6a1-445a-a78b-9c6f12e3baee.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Rhys Prosser:

Screenshot_20180613-113530.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Julia Wallingford:

IMG_20180613_100904.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By David Lafuente:

IMG_20180612_124538.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Francesco Francavilla:

IMG_20180614_023524.jpg

----------


## Caivu

From yesterday's Titans special:

Screenshot_20180614-023854.jpg

Looks like Kate, Jean-Paul, and Basil are on the Justice League's radar.

----------


## Caivu

By Marcel de Souza:

Screenshot_20180613-000935.jpg

----------


## Caivu

I realized recently that Kate was wearing some medals as a cadet in Elegy:

IMG_20180614_150511.jpg

The ones on the left seem to be fictional, but the right ones are all real awards that a West Point cadet could realistically earn.

From top to bottom: Air Assault Badge, Parachutist Badge, and the National Defense Service Medal.

----------


## Caivu

By Jae Pereira:

Screenshot_20180614-193237.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @sneakyy_pie on Twitter:

IMG_20180614_173056.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Bombshell Batwoman cosplay by @choupettecosplay on IG:

Screenshot_20180615-030925.jpg

Photo by Rapture Photography.

----------


## Caivu

By Meredith Laxton:

Screenshot_20180615-132900.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Dean Trippe:

IMG_20180615_145755.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Eric Canete:

Screenshot_20180615-201835.jpg

----------


## Caivu

One of the things I like about Kate is that there's a relatively high level of specificity and realism about what she had to do to become Batwoman,  compared to many other nonpowered heroes. Of course there's still a measure of fictionalization and such, but when almost all the other Bats, for example, have a lot of hand-wavy, Eastern mystic mumbo-jumbo in their pasts, Kate stands out (that's not to be disparaging about anything other than quantifiable things).

I recently discovered the Youtube channel of Christopher Littlestone, a retired Green Beret, Airborne Ranger, and a bunch of other stuff. He discusses, as much as he can, what goes into becoming an elite soldier, and that provides a wealth of insight into Kate's character, at least in one aspect.

Military Training Tips playlist

----------


## Caivu

The finished @Aka0kami piece from earlier:

161d63ca-160e-4bd4-8c11-ab22bc99a894.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Diana Greenhalgh:

Screenshot_20180615-201946.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Seth Roswell Penn:

Screenshot_20180616-110645.jpg

Fighty Kate is one of my favorite Kates.

----------


## Caivu

By Elias Melendez:

Screenshot_20180616-165500.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Mary Werneck:

IMG_20180616_201644.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Paul Maybury:

Screenshot_20180616-153604.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Matt Lesniewski:

IMG_20180616_211554.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Omar Rios:

Screenshot_20180617-085223.jpg

The Sideshow figure has been getting a lot of use from artists.

----------


## Caivu

For Father's Day, it's worth remembering that, while Jacob has done wrong, none of that erases that he is still a good father.

IMG_20180617_090054.jpg
IMG_20180617_090056.jpg

(From _Batwoman_ #0)

Much like his daughter, he is a dichotomous character, and since Kate sought to emulate him, that makes sense in-story.

----------


## Caivu

By Kate Leth:

034a6928-d2d6-4e74-ade8-486a05f1e439.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Albert Nguyen:

IMG_20180617_172913.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Chris Fischer:

IMG_20180617_145508.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Tim Gaffey:

Screenshot_20180617-095440.jpg

----------


## Oberon

That was a nice part from that story. I've always felt that Kate's tragic origins impressed me more than Bruce's. Hers seem more visceral.

----------


## Caivu

> That was a nice part from that story. I've always felt that Kate's tragic origins impressed me more than Bruce's. Hers seem more visceral.


I think that might be because of the kidnapping aspect. While Bruce seeing his parents shot was certainly traumatic, it was over in seconds. But Kate wasn't rescued for hours, and had to listen to her mom getting beaten up in the meantime.

----------


## Caivu

By Jeremy Haun:

IMG_20180618_124859.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Well, it seems official: Kate is in limbo starting in September.  :Frown: 

Hopefully not for long.

----------


## The Whovian

> Well, it seems official: Kate is in limbo starting in September. 
> 
> Hopefully not for long.


Ugh. This stinks. Maybe they'll give her a new series next year with a new creative team.

----------


## millernumber1

> Well, it seems official: Kate is in limbo starting in September. 
> 
> Hopefully not for long.


 :Frown:  Sad day. DC has now cancelled two Batfamily titles (Batgirl and the Birds of Prey and Batwoman) - where's our new Batfamily title to replace them?

----------


## Caivu

> Ugh. This stinks. Maybe they'll give her a new series next year with a new creative team.


There might, possibly, may be something on that front:

Screenshot_20180618-184230.jpg




> Sad day. DC has now cancelled two Batfamily titles (Batgirl and the Birds of Prey and Batwoman) - where's our new Batfamily title to replace them?


Here's to October. So far the entire 'Tec cast is in limbo during September aside from Bruce and JPV.

----------


## Caivu

The completed Chris Fischer piece from earlier:

IMG_20180617_215308.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Mitch Collins:

Screenshot_20180619-010330.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Julian Lopez WIP:

Screenshot_20180619-101802.jpg

----------


## Caivu

A custom miniature painted by Snickernack Studios:

IMG_20180619_121930.jpg

----------


## Caivu

I found another of Kate's cars; in college she drove a 2002 Volkswagen Jetta GLS.

Screenshot_20180619-170723.jpg

28f006dbad_640.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By osmium-dog on Tumblr:

fc0c4d04-240a-4a59-845a-ac813a542aed.jpg

----------


## K. Jones

Batwoman's limbo is surely another example of a relaunch with a flashy creative team shake-up. I think creators tend to be dying to get their hands on her, but we gotta get new oncoming writers time to really build up something in advance, not just try to jump in and crank something out in under six months (writing a story with a beginning, middle, end, and good ideas, plus getting a good artist a good lead time).

But I mean, you know, we've got Azrael on the Justice League ... IN SPACE. I think Batwoman will be around.

Hoping frankly she RUNS Batman's vigilante school. And it basically just becomes a stealth BATGIRLS book.

----------


## Caivu

> Batwoman's limbo is surely another example of a relaunch with a flashy creative team shake-up. I think creators tend to be dying to get their hands on her, but we gotta get new oncoming writers time to really build up something in advance, not just try to jump in and crank something out in under six months (writing a story with a beginning, middle, end, and good ideas, plus getting a good artist a good lead time).
> 
> But I mean, you know, we've got Azrael on the Justice League ... IN SPACE. I think Batwoman will be around.
> 
> Hoping frankly she RUNS Batman's vigilante school. And it basically just becomes a stealth BATGIRLS book.


I hope you're right. Something new in October would be appropriate for her. Hopefully the rest of the missing Knights, too.

----------


## Caivu

By NOORA:

BATWOMAN_by_Noora_June_18_2018_by_rodelsm21.jpg

----------


## Caivu

A bat-wedding thing by Mike Lilly:

IMG_20180620_101525.jpg

Kate's way in the back, but she's there.

----------


## Caivu

By David Winters:

IMG_20180620_142201.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Jason, Kate, and Renee by littlebluejaydraws

----------


## Caivu

Some photos of Mackenzie Davis from the new Terminator film were released today, and damn, she'd make a good Kate:

IMG_20180620_185501.jpg

IMG_20180620_185644.jpg

IMG_20180620_191650.jpg

----------


## millernumber1

> Some photos of Mackenzie Davis from the new Terminator film were released today, and damn, she'd make a good Kate:
> 
> IMG_20180620_185501.jpg
> 
> IMG_20180620_185644.jpg
> 
> IMG_20180620_191650.jpg


Huh. I know it's because she's blonde, but I'm seeing Maggie.  :Smile:

----------


## Caivu

Also not a bad possibility.

----------


## Caivu

It's officially Batwoman Day! 12 years ago today, Kate debuted in 52 #7.

52_7 (1).jpg

Barring only a relative handful of instances, Kate has had pretty consistently good stories this whole time, and has never truly been rebooted from Batwoman: Elegy onward. Plenty of superhero characters can't make those sorts of claims, and it's that consistency that's allowed her to grow and develop into such a great character.

To 12 more years and many more after that, as well as to as short a stay in limbo as possible.

----------


## Caivu

By Dominic Brown:

Screenshot_20180621-022723.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By crsimones on Tumblr:

ffaf7a96-da76-40e9-b7a0-a4682f1da298.jpg

----------


## Man-Thing

> Batwoman's limbo is surely another example of a relaunch with a flashy creative team shake-up. I think creators tend to be dying to get their hands on her, but we gotta get new oncoming writers time to really build up something in advance, not just try to jump in and crank something out in under six months (writing a story with a beginning, middle, end, and good ideas, plus getting a good artist a good lead time).
> 
> But I mean, you know, we've got Azrael on the Justice League ... IN SPACE. I think Batwoman will be around.
> 
> Hoping frankly she RUNS Batman's vigilante school. And it basically just becomes a stealth BATGIRLS book.


Let's play the fun game of dream writer/artist team for a new Batwoman run!

I'd be down for the pair behind the 2012 Ghost reboot (which went downhill fast after they left, unfortunately)  Kelly Sue DeConnick and Phil Noto.
Or bring in DeConnick's artists from Pretty Deadly (another great series, tbh) Emma Ríos and Jordie Bellaire.
Kelly Sue DeConnick with kick-ass pencillers and colorists, basically :P

----------


## Caivu

I'd like to see Jody Houser write her. Violet Paige is a similar character, and she got her correct already in her Mother Panic cameo. 

Claire Roe on main art duties, since she draws a great Kate and can pull off the sort of brutal violence I'd want.

3f67d124-c6cd-4c8b-a5b1-9aa52b1c46d0.jpg

8c150a11-ab1f-46c3-aa4f-bc17f6db7094.jpg

c8896c00-5710-4749-aff8-0ed26a284502.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Denise Kather (aka @sneakyy_pie on Twitter):

IMG_20180621_184555.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By osmium-dog on Tumblr:

03508d85-fb8c-49cd-b8b3-c228934cace9.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Steven Brezenoff:

Screenshot_20180622-000005.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By apathenapromachus on Tumblr:

9637c389-198c-4a08-b733-7c02133c4985.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Tony Pitura, after Bruce Timm:

Screenshot_20180622-040137.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Here's about 22.5 very rough pages of the screenplay, this time in a feature version. It's basically in drabbles after page 10.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1b3-...wp8Nrbb3n/view

----------


## Caivu

Fernando Blanco WIP:

IMG_20180622_122601.jpg

I hope that swordsman is Tahani.

----------


## Caivu

By David Evans:

Screenshot_20180622-164403.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Julian Lopez:

Screenshot_20180622-144617.jpg

----------


## Caivu

While it's discouraging, I'm kinda glad to see an almost uniformly negative reaction to last issue, especially That One Page. And most seem to be placing the blame on, if not the writer, then not Kate. They know that was out-of-character for her.

----------


## Caivu

By Nina Vakueva:

Screenshot_20180623-003525.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Charles Simpson:

IMG_20180623_184351.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By CJ Marziano:

Screenshot_20180623-193029.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @linesanddreams on IG:

Screenshot_20180623-193000.jpg

----------


## Caivu

An early mask sculpt by Rogue Design FX:

Screenshot_20180624-005404.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Alfret Le:

Screenshot_20180624-010136.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Francisco Cortes:

Screenshot_20180623-223402.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Darran Robinson:

Screenshot_20180623-201524.jpg

Screenshot_20180623-201502.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @black_regent on IG:

Screenshot_20180624-114639.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Blanco addressed the reaction to #16. I agree with at least some parts.

Screenshot_20180624-175335.jpg

----------


## Caivu

I learned that today is also the 9th anniversery of Elegy beginning.

----------


## Caivu

Another by @black_regent:

Screenshot_20180623-223334.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Egemen Yalçın:

Batwoman_by_PathfinderArt.jpg

----------


## Caivu

More progress on the Rogue Design FX mask:

Screenshot_20180625-110457.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Michael Cho, variant cover artist for around half the current series, has been nominated for a Ringo Award for Best Cover Artist.

----------


## Caivu

By Van-Brand-Artworks on DA:

Batwoman_by_Van-Brand-Artworks.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By ADL-art on DA:

Screenshot_20180625-193537.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By graysoninabox on Tumblr:

83b96111-ca9f-42ad-a19c-3ecbc62b6763.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By IrisFalcon96 on DA:

Batwoman_by_IrisFalcon96.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By nooodle07 and king.kell_odin:

https://nooodle07.tumblr.com/post/17...phobes-its-the

----------


## Caivu

WIP by Joshua Moore:

Screenshot_20180626-233903.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Dustin Nguyen:

Screenshot_20180627-013758.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By forwhateveryouwant on Tumblr:

Screenshot_20180627-101531.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Louis Berdecia:

Screenshot_20180627-154419.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Lewis John Nield:

Screenshot_20180627-195043.jpg

----------


## Caivu

It's been a while since I've made a "convert", but I did today. On my recommendation, a stranger bought Elegy and the first four volumes of her New 52 series, and has already finished Elegy and liked it. That feels good.

----------


## Caivu

By Ludovic Leondi:

Screenshot_20180627-154606.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @art_halli on IG:

Screenshot_20180627-231412.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Koreen Mica:

IMG_20180628_111455.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @nesichlo on IG:

Screenshot_20180628-161832.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @head_up_in_the_sky on IG:

Screenshot_20180628-195051.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Trevor L. Wooten:

Screenshot_20180628-235659.jpg

----------


## Caivu

The finished @black_regent piece from earlier:

Screenshot_20180628-233539.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By apathenapromachus on Tumblr:

3108f429-02ce-43bd-ad8b-f77288d74ad6.jpg

----------


## Caivu

The Charissa Simones piece from a few pages back, now inked:

Screenshot_20180628-212344.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By David M. Buisán:

Screenshot_20180629-093045.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Jason A. Irizarry:

Screenshot_20180629-135700.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @Appleblotch on Twitter:

IMG_20180629_215058.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @machining_l on IG:

Screenshot_20180630-030816.jpg

----------


## Caivu

With the news that the upcoming Titans show on DC Universe will be more adult in tone, I'm mildly encouraged that there could be a possibility of a Batwoman show on that platform. If the service is going to launch with a show that has a dark tone, and in a franchise that isn't typically that dark, then that willingness to have darker content is a good sign for properties that usually are that way.

This plus the upcoming Arrowverse crossover is enough to at least put it in the realm of plausibility.

----------


## Caivu

I found this bit of info:

Screenshot_20180626-032534.jpg

Since Kate would technically be eligible for this award, I think there's story potential there. For a while now I've been curious to see her return to West Point and interact with some of her old instructors, given her public persona.

----------


## Caivu

By Ben Bolling:

fd1085e7-ce0f-4397-8b06-72c93ee57eaf.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Kevin Enhart:

Screenshot_20180630-202947.jpg

----------


## Caivu

The Vol. 2 trade contains some of Fernando Blanco's unused cover sketches:

IMG_20180630_132349.jpg

I like the first one in the second row a lot. The first one in the last row is interesting, too; Kate's shadow is that of Madame Crow, who was put through the same sort of torture as Kate, though Kate escaped.

----------


## Caivu

By Alan Frank Gesek:

Screenshot_20180701-092229.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Kris Anka:

IMG_20180701_131943.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Ace Continuado:

IMG_20180630_231535.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Roberto Lucarda:

Screenshot_20180701-092307.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @ra7ar on Twitter:

IMG_20180701_223041.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Ike Khienvichit:

Screenshot_20180701-220909.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @dont.forget.to.fangirl on IG:

Screenshot_20180701-002126.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Dzaky Alkaff:

Screenshot_20180702-103156.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Fernando Blanco WIP:

IMG_20180702_115255.jpg

----------


## Caivu

More progress on the Rogue Design FX mask sculpt:

Screenshot_20180702-103351.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Another by Kevin Enhart:

Screenshot_20180701-000942.jpg

----------


## Man-Thing

If anyone's interested, the full-cast audiobook reading of the novelization of 52, which picks the Renee/Kate story as one of the three they focus on, is available in the currently ongoing DC Comics Audiobooks Humble Bundle promotion https://www.humblebundle.com/books/dc-comics-audiobooks

----------


## Caivu

> If anyone's interested, the full-cast audiobook reading of the novelization of 52, which picks the Renee/Kate story as one of the three they focus on, is available in the currently ongoing DC Comics Audiobooks Humble Bundle promotion https://www.humblebundle.com/books/dc-comics-audiobooks


Thank you! That's really cool.

----------


## Caivu

By Fabian Lelay:

IMG_20180703_021940.jpg

I love bloody, fighty Kate.

----------


## Caivu

By Nate Melendez:

IMG_20180703_021915.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Cazel Rulloda:

IMG_20180703_155100.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Chad Heinrich:

IMG_20180702_204947.jpg

IMG_20180702_204950.jpg

IMG_20180702_205000.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

Those are all amazing!!

----------


## Man-Thing

Agreed!

I'm in love with that second one with the mask <3

----------


## The Whovian

> Agreed!
> 
> I'm in love with that second one with the mask <3


Yeah, that one is really cool

----------


## Caivu

More by Heinrich:

IMG_20180702_205003.jpg

IMG_20180702_205006.jpg

IMG_20180702_205009.jpg

----------


## Caivu

And more:

IMG_20180702_205019.jpg

IMG_20180702_205034.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By artcroftarts on Tumblr:

a71ea17a-c58c-4c40-8bf4-10373a281dda.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Megan Fabbri:

Screenshot_20180703-182628.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By David Caldwell:

Screenshot_20180703-182447.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By RobinTheGirlWonder:

Screenshot_20180705-043041.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By IrisFalcon96 on DA:

Batwoman_by_IrisFalcon96-1.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Donovan Jackson:

Batwoman_quick_paint_by_Squamate.jpg

----------


## Caivu

I noticed that, in broad terms, the current Batman and Catwoman series are sort of a decomposite of the current Batwoman series. 

Batman #50 revealed that Bane has been manipulating most, if not all, of the major events in the series, specifically to hurt Bruce... kinda like Tahani has been doing to Kate. And Catwoman #1 finds Selina in a brand-new setting, with a new support cast and villains, and even being mentally out-of-sorts to some degree.

I doubt this actually means anything, but it was interesting to note.

----------


## Caivu

By Scott Davies:

Screenshot_20180706-032751.jpg

----------


## millernumber1

Is there any indication of where Kate's going to land after Batwoman #18?

Also, I'm listening to the 52 audiobook/drama from the Humble Bundle, and just got to Kate's introduction. Man, 52 Batwoman really feels different from Elegy Batwoman. I know part of that is the novelization, but even in the comic, she's just not as brass tacks as I think of Kate.  :Smile:

----------


## Caivu

> Is there any indication of where Kate's going to land after Batwoman #18?


Only that Shea Fontana is writing her in something, but she implied it wouldn't be a regular comic. Gail Simone might be as well; she followed by Batwoman Twitter account the other day out of complete nowhere. 




> Also, I'm listening to the 52 audiobook/drama from the Humble Bundle, and just got to Kate's introduction. Man, 52 Batwoman really feels different from Elegy Batwoman. I know part of that is the novelization, but even in the comic, she's just not as brass tacks as I think of Kate.


52 was proto-Kate. Recognizable, but basically a scaffold.

----------


## millernumber1

> Only that Shea Fontana is writing her in something, but she implied it wouldn't be a regular comic. Gail Simone might be as well; she followed by Batwoman Twitter account the other day out of complete nowhere. 
> 
> 52 was proto-Kate. Recognizable, but basically a scaffold.


Mmmm. Fontanta. That implies either more Zoom (like Batman: Overdrive) or DCSHG, which would be cute, but...not super substantial. Or could be a one-shot, like the Catwoman Election one shot. Though let's hope not. That was terrible.  :Smile: 

It's just so jarring to me, because the Kate I know and love is SO distinct - like Athena from Zeus's head in Elegy.

----------


## Caivu

> Mmmm. Fontanta. That implies either more Zoom (like Batman: Overdrive) or DCSHG, which would be cute, but...not super substantial.


I've thought she could be a teacher on DCSHG, but a Zoom story would work better since those are for older kids.

----------


## Caivu

By @drawingneko on IG:

Screenshot_20180706-140639.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By dklem on Tumblr:

523ccc19-7db9-4e9c-a2a4-e65b51b9d417.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Eleanor Doman:

3b7ade85-5f6c-4205-9e34-a9391081a605.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Waterwidow on DA:

d95a3545-1b4b-4072-804c-82733d2dd953.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Ryan Pasibe and Sam DelaTorre:

batman_family_by_samdelatorre-dcgiv1l.jpg

----------


## Caivu

WIP by dannylart on Tumblr:

Screenshot_20180707-141904.jpg

----------


## Caivu

There's apparently going to be an Arrow-related announcement on Monday. It's probably that season 7 will be the final one, but maybe it's the Batwoman casting? Possibly?

----------


## Rac7d*

> There's apparently going to be an Arrow-related announcement on Monday. It's probably that season 7 will be the final one, but maybe it's the Batwoman casting? Possibly?


i was expecting comic con announced

----------


## Caivu

> i was expecting comic con announced


That's probably right. But it could be Monday.

----------


## Caivu

By Nova-sama420 on DA:

Screenshot_20180707-134847.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Rodrigo B. Echeverria:

Screenshot_20180707-171132.jpg

----------


## Caivu

More progress on the Rogue Design FX mask:

Screenshot_20180708-031348.jpg

Screenshot_20180708-031332.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Cosplay by Tawny Blake, photo by Affliction Media:

Screenshot_20180708-111309.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Joel Gomez:

Screenshot_20180708-111428.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @ark210mo8 on IG:

Screenshot_20180708-172041.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Telenia Albuquerque:

ae20afb7-2f0c-42a0-ba0d-168718ce213f.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Mel Ford:

IMG_20180707_154421.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Tony Gregory WIP:

Screenshot_20180708-181221.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @steel_peach on Twitter:

IMG_20180709_134104.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Alessadr on DA:

Screenshot_20180709-155037.jpg

----------


## Caivu

The finished Crys Hurford piece from a long while back:

Screenshot_20180709-144729.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Well, Amell's announcement got moved to tomorrow, whatever it is.

----------


## Caivu

Here's the updated Reddit respect thread:

https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthre...dc_comics_new/

----------


## Caivu

By Jason A. Irizarry:

Screenshot_20180710-021744.jpg

Screenshot_20180710-021732.jpg

----------


## Caivu

The completed Tony Gregori piece from earlier:

Screenshot_20180709-172635.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Jeferson Desenhos (aka Jeferson Jacques):

Screenshot_20180709-164132.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @kawoart on Twitter:

IMG_20180709_195431.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By gnome-oo on DA:

Screenshot_20180710-133100.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By 89g on DA:

kate_kane_by_89g.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Bonnaud Roméo:

Screenshot_20180710-140320.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Christopher Uminga:

IMG_20180710_232850.jpg

----------


## Caivu

The most recent Nightwing had another entry in the background Kate/Barbara saga.

Screenshot_20180710-043247.jpg

Way back in the New 52, Barbara started carrying a handkerchief in her belt after seeing Batwoman do so, and now Barbara also has her own set of taser gloves like Kate does.

----------


## Caivu

Steve Orlando has said The Unexpected might soon feature a Bat:

Screenshot_20180710-195240.jpg

He could mean issue #4, which will have Huntress, but it's also possible it's open to anyone.

----------


## Caivu

Kate showed up in Plastic Man #2:

Screenshot_20180711-114127.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Brett Carr:

Screenshot_20180711-180724.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By urbandrakes on Tumblr:

48cbda57-085f-4b86-a78c-59981ac912e5.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Canti78 on DA:

Screenshot_20180711-230352.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @maverickmadness_ on IG:

Screenshot_20180711-180655.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Fernando Blanco WIP, from apparently the very last page:

IMG_20180712_103219.jpg

I hope that the cropped-out part is Kate and Renee making out.

----------


## Caivu

A faces exercise by possumist on Tumblr:

9c2ab8a1-c57b-447f-a2cb-dccfbb1b159d.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Fabian Lelay:

IMG_20180712_014919.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Dierdre Noonan:

IMG_20180713_135206.jpg

----------


## Caivu

WIP by @insane_humanoid on IG:

Screenshot_20180714-021402.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Cosplay by @bratshley on IG:

Screenshot_20180714-182144.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By laughandpanic on Tumblr:

Screenshot_20180715-033518.jpg

----------


## Caivu

The final sculpt of the Rogue Design FX mask:

Screenshot_20180715-115258.jpg

----------


## Caivu

The final piece by @artbydannyl on IG from a while back:

IMG_20180715_182434.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Andréia Carbonari:

IMG_20180715_221040.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @robot_hammer on Twitter:

IMG_20180715_232214.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Renee Montoya was just confirmed as part of the BoP movie.  So it's now a realistic possibility that Kate could be, too.

----------


## Caivu

By Brett Booth and Bruno Furlani:

IMG_20180716_150300.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Brandon Scaglione:

Screenshot_20180716-105906.jpg

----------


## Caivu

There's already a thread for this, but there's going to be a Batwoman show!

It's pretty encouraging that they're announcing this so soon, since that makes it pretty clear the network _wants_ to use her.

----------


## Caivu

By Dustin Nguyen:

8cd75a90-b4b6-4ed6-8afe-e2163f466b02.jpg

----------


## skyvolt2000

https://shadowandact.com/an-out-lesb...ries-at-the-cw




> Fresh off the word that a Batwoman series is in early development from Caroline Dries and Greg Berlanti at the CW, word has come that the higher-ups at the CW are looking to cast a lesbian actress to portray Gotham's most prominent heroine. 
> 
> According to TV Line, the future addition to the CW's Arrowverse (the DC Comics shows), which currently consists of Supergirl, The Flash, Legends Of Tomorrow and Arrow, is seeking an out actress, open ethnicity, between the ages of 25 and 29 years old. For those unfamiliar with the character, Batwoman aka Kate Kane is a wealthy Gotham socialite with armed with "a passion for social justice and a flair for speaking her mind, as well as a  highly trained street fighter primed to snuff out the failing citys criminal resurgence"

----------


## Caivu

I really hope they can get the kind of actress they specify, who is also skilled in all the relevant parts of the role and has a good physical presence. And who is also Jewish, preferably, to bring that nuance to the role. Might have to go with an unknown. But I also hope they're willing to open up the casting if they really can't find anyone.

----------


## Caivu

The final Rogue Design FX mask, appropriately named "Kate" and coincidentally released today:

Screenshot_20180718-020504.jpg

----------


## Oberon

That is pretty cool, I'd think it would work. Masks of various sorts always look good on the printed page but not always when translated to live action media.

----------


## Caivu

New details about Kate's character description.

http://thathashtagshow.com/2018/07/e...ls-arrowverse/




> Kate is fully aware of how bad-ass she is whenever she enters a room, even though she prefers to put a smile on your face. Young Ms. Kane is physically and intellectually confident while being a woman who is proud to be openly gay. However, Kate still deals with her inner demons that go back to her history with her dad. Their relationship is quite complicated as she struggles to get praise from him. She once aspired to have a successful military career, but those dreams sadly came to an end as she was kicked out of West Point once she came out of the closet. But that didn’t stop her from becoming the crime-fighting vigilante known as Batwoman. Striking fear into the criminals she fights, Kate is someone who must also fight the complications of living a double life, both as a citizen and hero of Gotham. While she has her shield up when fighting criminals, she lets herself be vulnerable when dating women.


Sounds pretty spot-on.

----------


## Caivu

By Hibren on DA:

Screenshot_20180718-122348.jpg

----------


## FBarnhill

She got kicked out of the military. How sad. She didn’t have to fight a pointless war and murder people for the sake of a country’s greed and ego. Why is that a bad thing?

----------


## Caivu

> She got kicked out of the military. How sad. She didn’t have to fight a pointless war and murder people for the sake of a country’s greed and ego. Why is that a bad thing?


There is nothing inherently immoral about serving in the military and wanting to help defend one's country. Characterizing that service with a broad brush as you did here is neither helpful nor accurate.

Anyway. Why is it a bad thing? Because military service (stress on _service_) was all Kate ever wanted to do. Her decision to leave the academy and abandon her future rather than compromise her integrity was the honorable choice... but it also completely wrecked her life and lead to her spiral into alcohol abuse and cheap flings. She had no idea what to _do_ after that.

----------


## Caivu

By Rida Ahmed:

Screenshot_20180719-040215.jpg

----------


## FBarnhill

> There is nothing inherently immoral about serving in the military and wanting to help defend one's country. Characterizing that service with a broad brush as you did here is neither helpful nor accurate.
> 
> Anyway. Why is it a bad thing? Because military service (stress on _service_) was all Kate ever wanted to do. Her decision to leave the academy and abandon her future rather than compromise her integrity was the honorable choice... but it also completely wrecked her life and lead to her spiral into alcohol abuse and cheap flings. She had no idea what to _do_ after that.


I fell sorry for her. I do. But I personally can’t support a war or it’s troops when the result is more division and fear.

----------


## millernumber1

> By Dustin Nguyen:
> 
> 8cd75a90-b4b6-4ed6-8afe-e2163f466b02.jpg


Love it whenever Nguyen visits any of the Batfamily...  :Smile:

----------


## Caivu

By nechayano on Tumblr:

4e4d46c0-c839-41cd-b9be-485c62876a55.jpg

The premise of this is basically a tabloid situation where it's specualted Kate and Dick are dating and Kate's all like "nah."

----------


## Caivu

By Bill D. Kurtz:

Screenshot_20180719-161303.jpg

----------


## millernumber1

> By nechayano on Tumblr:
> 
> 4e4d46c0-c839-41cd-b9be-485c62876a55.jpg
> 
> The premise of this is basically a tabloid situation where it's specualted Kate and Dick are dating and Kate's all like "nah."


I really like this art! Is it attached to a fic, or just captions?

----------


## Caivu

> I really like this art! Is it attached to a fic, or just captions?


Just a caption.

----------


## Caivu

Cosplay by silber.katz on IG:

IMG_20180719_184518.jpg

----------


## Caivu

There is now at least one official Batwoman audition tape out. It's hard to say much about it since its scenes could be audition-specific, but it could mean that the role hasn't been cast yet and won't be announced at SDCC.

----------


## Caivu

New CW promo:

----------


## Caivu

By Danielle Otrakji:

Screenshot_20180720-105658.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Patrick Zircher:

IMG_20180720_194517.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Nicola Scott:

Screenshot_20180720-233637.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Alex Ross:

IMG_20180720_222715.jpg

----------


## Twice-named

> There is now at least one official Batwoman audition tape out. It's hard to say much about it since its scenes could be audition-specific, but it could mean that the role hasn't been cast yet and won't be announced at SDCC.


The Hollywood Reporter article from 7/17 stated, “A casting notice for the role of Kate will be going out shortly.”

----------


## Caivu

Hmm. Good to know. It does seem awful late, though. But that does reinforce the likelihood that they'll go with someone who already has stunt experience (which they should anyway, because that's just smart).

----------


## Caivu

By Chad Hardin:

Screenshot_20180721-112322.jpg

----------


## Caivu

No casting news from the Arrow panel. In fact, they confirmed they haven't even made it to the halfway point of the season yet.

----------


## Caivu

By David Buceta:

Screenshot_20180721-112436.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By nico_llette_h on IG:

Screenshot_20180721-151530.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Daniela Rojas:

Screenshot_20180722-031738.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Carmen Brucato:

Screenshot_20180722-031801.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Adam Hughes:

Screenshot_20180722-175810.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Inking progress on the Bill D. Kurtz piece:

Screenshot_20180722-111229.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Cat Staggs:

IMG_20180722_175927.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Lexi Dahlberg:

Screenshot_20180722-223715.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Kya Kiniro:

IMG_20180723_154215.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Well, I've seen six audition tapes so far, and one, from an actress named Ashley Platz, has been the standout. Unfortunately, it's been deleted from Vimeo.

----------


## Caivu

No Kate in this month's solicits, although I'm not honestly expecting anything new with her to be announced until after her current series is over. And there can always be surprises like Plastic Man #2.

----------


## Caivu

By Sebastián Píriz:

IMG_20180724_094919.jpg

----------


## Oberon

Not surprised.   Anything else you can tell us? Do we have any ideas about "where" or how this happens?   I'm very curious over what Earth she will be on.

Arrowverse, with Flash and all

Supergirl's world - I kinda like this idea

Black Lightning - great series but no connection, so far, to the other CW shows.

----------


## Caivu

It'll probably be on the Arrow Earth.

----------


## Caivu

Kate makes a cameo at the end of _The Death of Superman_.

IMG_20180724_181607.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Kate makes a cameo at the end of _The Death of Superman_.

IMG_20180724_181607.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Georg Lund:

Screenshot_20180724-213051.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Edit: double post

----------


## Caivu

By Dave Fowler:

IMG_20180725_223342.jpg

----------


## Dylan Davison

Does anyone know what she's going to be in now? It's hard to imagine that with her new show coming up, that she won't be in something.

----------


## Caivu

> Does anyone know what she's going to be in now? It's hard to imagine that with her new show coming up, that she won't be in something.


No idea right now. The last two issues of this series seem to be indicating a Batwoman/Question title, but I'm not expecting anything to be announced for her at all until after issue #18.

----------


## Caivu

By @RequiemPluie on Twitter:

IMG_20180726_143616.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Ian Bertram:

Screenshot_20180726-031723.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Otto Schmidt:

IMG_20180726_172906.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Xulia Vicente:

IMG_20180727_102057.jpg

----------


## Caivu

DnD Cass and Kate by @dopingues on Twitter:

IMG_20180727_160506.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Michael Dooney:

IMG_20180727_102013.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Rod Reis:

IMG_20180727_163654.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By khali_ivy on IG:

Screenshot_20180727-160102.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Sara Pichelli:

IMG_20180728_084608.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Jordan Mizell:

Screenshot_20180728-112639.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Ben Allen:

Screenshot_20180728-112704.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @sebardilesdead on Twitter:

IMG_20180728_005046.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By ronnie_artbook on IG:

Screenshot_20180729-085801.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @SugarPun on Twitter:

IMG_20180729_181137.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Telenia Albuquerque:

IMG_20180728_152705.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @angelasrocket on Twitter:

IMG_20180729_230443.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @perfect_syntax on Twitter:

IMG_20180730_172526.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Felipe Raveau Drouilly:

Screenshot_20180731-005936.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By John Barrons:

Screenshot_20180729-201228.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By LuckyStar:

fc3166a4-2bfb-4609-a84b-fa9866a34a2c.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Sonia Liao:

bcfeae61-a40e-4e29-842f-80d72d3b8619.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Sachi Ediriweera and Stefani Rennee:

IMG_20180731_172107.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By grimace_noir on IG:

Screenshot_20180731-225219.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Rhiannon Owens:

IMG_20180730_181752.jpg

----------


## Caivu

I've heard a rumor from a friend of someone supposedly in the know that Kate has already been cast and could be announced as soon as the end of this week. The reason is supposedly wardrobe-related, basically.

Take that with salt, of course, but it's good to know if true.

----------


## Caivu

By Christine Almeda:

7f39f07e-d32b-41d5-a022-a282995f5b54.jpg

----------


## Caivu

> I've heard a rumor from a friend of someone supposedly in the know that Kate has already been cast and could be announced as soon as the end of this week. The reason is supposedly wardrobe-related, basically.
> 
> Take that with salt, of course, but it's good to know if true.


I won't be too specific here, but I have just received some information that convinces me this is more likely now.

----------


## Caivu

By Selma Tereza:

Screenshot_20180731-225242.jpg

A capybara Batwoman. Sure, why not?

----------


## Caivu

By Yuri Salvador:

Screenshot_20180802-095431.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By J. Giner:

IMG_20180802_113944.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By @ArkhamHQ17 on Twitter:

IMG_20180801_224023.jpg

----------


## Caivu

The word going around is that the pilot could start filming as early as next spring.

----------


## Caivu

By Phil G. Ramsay:

Screenshot_20180804-091653.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Franck Uzan:

Screenshot_20180804-153822.jpg

----------


## Caivu

I did some research on exactly how long it took to cast the part of the CW's Barry Allen, to get a better perspective on when we might get a casting announcement.

Grant Gustin was announced as Barry 45 days after news of the Flash TV show broke. If the same is true here, we could know who's playing Kate as early as August 31.

----------


## Caivu

The finished Franck Uzan cover:

Screenshot_20180805-171426.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Marcio Takara:

IMG_20180805_200740.jpg

----------


## Oberon

On Newsarama today, they are saying the CW Batwoman will be a mid season show.  Not much else on details.  But I like hearing it is happening.

----------


## Caivu

It will probably depend on a good reception. But I'm excited that the network seems enthusiastic about her.

----------


## Caivu

By Travis Truant:

02_-_Batwoman_by_TravisTruant.jpg

----------


## Caivu

I'm starting (restarting?) my attempt at 3D modeling Kate's apartment.

20180804_213209.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Ruby Rose has been cast as Kate!

http://m.ign.com/articles/2018/08/07...erse-crossover

Pretty huge get for the CW, and amazingly fast casting. Rose has never been my top choice, but she's always been on my list, so I'm pretty satisfied.  :Smile:

----------


## Immortal Weapon

She is debuting in the crossover so casting her this soon shouldn't be out of the question.

----------


## daningotham

I'm guessing someone on here can help me, it's driving me crazy.  Does anyone remember the issue with Batwoman in it, I can't remember if it was in Williams Batwoman run or his Detective Comics run.  But there is a page with a guy looking out a window during a thunderstorm.  He looks at the window and all he sees is darkness.  A lightning strike lights up the outside of the window and he sees Batwoman looking back at him.  It's the coolest and freakiest thing ever.  I own the issue but don't want to start looking through a ton of issues.  I was hoping someone here could tell me the issue that was in.  If not, not biggie.  Just wanted to show a friend of mine.  Thanks!

----------


## Caivu

> I'm guessing someone on here can help me, it's driving me crazy.  Does anyone remember the issue with Batwoman in it, I can't remember if it was in Williams Batwoman run or the Detective Comics run.  But there is a page with a guy looking out a window during a thunderstorm.  He looks at the window and all he sees is darkness.  A lightning strike lights up the outside of the window and he sees Batwoman looking back at him.  It's the coolest and freakiest thing ever.  I own the issue but don't want to start looking through a ton of issues.  I was hoping someone here could tell me the issue that was in.  If not, not biggie.  Just wanted to show a friend of mine.  Thanks!


'Tec #860.




> She is debuting in the crossover so casting her this soon shouldn't be out of the question.


It's unusually fast. Compare it to Barry Allen, a character who also debuted in a crossover along with a show announcement. Grant Gustin was cast 45 days after _The Flash_ was announced, and about halfway into September. 

The casting for Kate took 21 days.

----------


## daningotham

> 'Tec #860.


Thank you Caivu!  It was driving me crazy.  I love this image, I should blow it up and make it into a poster.

----------


## Restingvoice

Did you guys see that guy complaining on Twitter that every reboot has to be LGBT because what about the straight white male characters... but he phrased it like he wants Batwoman to be played by straight white male character... and now he's complaining that people are stupid and didn't get what he's trying to say? XD

----------


## Raijin

I love how creators are always fair and take the high road. Too bad fans NEVER have the same mentality. Screenshot_2018-08-07-23-54-21.jpg

----------


## Caivu

JHWIII and Tynion have also expressed support for this choice.

----------


## Caivu

By Jim McClain:

20180808_025745.jpg

----------


## Vworp Vworp

> I love how creators are always fair and take the high road. Too bad fans NEVER have the same mentality.


What's fair?  Wanting the best for a character that you love?  




> JHWIII and Tynion have also expressed support for this choice.


Well, it's not like they were gonna come out and say "Meh".

Bottom line, Rose is not a great actress.  Sure, that sort of thing can be subjective and it's all opinion, but it's a prevalent one across social media at the moment.  Even some of the posts in favour of her casting have addressed her limitations  - the go to argument being that it's "only a CW show" so acting ability isn't a huge requirement anyway

Personally, I disagree with that.  OK, I'm not seeing any acting Emmys anywhere in the Arrowverse's future and to be honest, I'm not actually watching any of their DC shows now anyway.  But for however long I did stick with Arrow, LoT and Supergirl, I never came across a performance so bad that I would outright say that any particular individual couldn't act.  However, Rose's performance on OitNB was one that did give me that impression.  You notice bad acting because... because it _feels_ like someone is acting.  So you don't see the character, you see the performer.  

And granted her body of work is currently very small, but I've yet to ever see Ruby Rose as anyone except Ruby Rose.  Let's be honest, when your best performance to date has been in a role without any dialogue, that's probably a sign.

----------


## daningotham

I've only seen her in John Wick 2 and I thought she was awesome in that.  I can't wait to see her play Kate.

----------


## Caivu

> Well, it's not like they were gonna come out and say "Meh".


Why not? Rucka, at the very least, is not one to mince words on Twitter. What do they have to gain by lying? None of them are involved with the show or expect to be. If it's a matter of professionalism, simply saying "Not who I would pick" or something similar would be fine.




> You notice bad acting because... because it _feels_ like someone is acting.  So you don't see the character, you see the performer.


Okay... never had that watching any of RR's scenes.




> And granted her body of work is currently very small, but I've yet to ever see Ruby Rose as anyone except Ruby Rose.  Let's be honest, when your best performance to date has been in a role without any dialogue, that's probably a sign.


Everyone dings her for the role of Ares, as if acting with only your expressions, gestures, and body language is somehow easy or something. It's, uh... not. That was actually the role that convinced me she could make a good Kate.

----------


## Vworp Vworp

> Everyone dings her for the role of Ares, as if acting with only your expressions, gestures, and body language is somehow easy or something. It's, uh... not.


You're right, it's not easy. And done well, it can lead to a phenomenal performance. Just look at Sally Hawkins in The Shape of Water for evidence of that. 

But Rose's portrayal of Ares wasn't that.  It was... alright.  But this wasn't a performance that gained something more by the absence of dialogue.  Instead, it was merely a _slight_ improvement on her other roles, purely because she did not have any lines.

----------


## Caivu

> But Rose's portrayal of Ares wasn't that.  It was... alright.  But this wasn't a performance that gained something more by the absence of dialogue.  Instead, it was merely a _slight_ improvement on her other roles, purely because she did not have any lines.


I honestly don't get how you can say this. I feel like I'm watching a completely seperate filmography from everyone else.

----------


## Caivu

By Robert Hack:

IMG_20180808_165931.jpg

----------


## Caivu

The finished J. Giner piece from a while ago:

IMG_20180808_194944.jpg

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## Caivu

By @pseudofolio on Twitter:

IMG_20180808_210304.jpg

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## Caivu

By Fabian Lelay:

IMG_20180804_163217.jpg

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## Caivu

By Jonathan Reyes:

Screenshot_20180808-230058.jpg

----------


## Vworp Vworp

> I honestly don't get how you can say this. I feel like I'm watching a completely seperate filmography from everyone else.


It works both ways.  Perhaps even moreso from my perspective.  I can see from your posts on here that you're a huge Batwoman fan and so I'm genuinely surprised you think someone of Rose's *extremely* limited range could do _any_ kind of justice to Kate.

For me, this casting is selling Kate short by a long way.  As a character, she deserves _so_ much better.  But hey, the same can be said of Supergirl in terms of the writing on that show for the last two years, so I guess it's par for the course on the CW anyway!

----------


## Raijin

> You're right, it's not easy. And done well, it can lead to a phenomenal performance. Just look at Sally Hawkins in The Shape of Water for evidence of that. 
> 
> But Rose's portrayal of Ares wasn't that.  It was... alright.  But this wasn't a performance that gained something more by the absence of dialogue.  Instead, it was merely a _slight_ improvement on her other roles, purely because she did not have any lines.


Actresses who were supposedly bad, average, etc have been known to turn in great performances. I know this is out of the question with ALL fandom but you gotta learn how to give things a chance. I feel like a true comic fan would want to see what she can actually bring to the table.

Some of the comments against her have been disgusting,  which makes me support the casting more.

----------


## Caivu

> I can see from your posts on here that you're a huge Batwoman fan and so I'm genuinely surprised you think someone of Rose's *extremely* limited range could do _any_ kind of justice to Kate.


Because I don't think she has an "*extremely* limited range". That doesn't mean I think she's Oscar or Emmy material, just that she's capable. As Rucka said, CW!Kate's portrayal will come down to how she's written, and I pretty much agree.




> For me, this casting is selling Kate short by a long way.  As a character, she deserves _so_ much better.


I don't entirely disagree with this, believe it or not. RR wasn't even in my top 10 picks for this role. But neither was she ever someone I absolutely didn't want.

----------


## Vworp Vworp

> Actresses who were supposedly bad, average, etc have been known to turn in great performances. I know this is out of the question with ALL fandom but you gotta learn how to give things a chance. I feel like a true comic fan would want to see what she can actually bring to the table.


Alternately, going in with enormously (and to be fair, justifiably) low expectations at least means we won't be disappointed.

----------


## Vworp Vworp

> As Rucka said, CW!Kate's portrayal will come down to how she's written, and I pretty much agree.


That much may be true.  If Kate's written as a one-dimensional character with little to no depth, Rose will probably be fine.

----------


## Osiris-Rex

Ruby Rose seemed personable enough in the Jimmy Fallon interview so I don't see the problem.  Maybe is was more a case of her getting crappy roles and bad writing than lack of talent.  
And even if it is her, she can't be any worse than Stephen Amell and Arrow is still reasonably enjoyable.

----------


## Caivu

> That much may be true.  If Kate's written as a one-dimensional character with little to no depth, Rose will probably be fine.


You don't have to be snarky (just generally speaking, I am well beyond tired of reading that kinda crap over the past few days). You know that's not what he meant.

----------


## Immortal Weapon

> As Rucka said, CW!Kate's portrayal will come down to how she's written, and I pretty much agree.


I disagree. Good writing can't save a bad performance. 

I'm not familiar with Ruby Rose work so I can't say anything definitive about her.

----------


## Caivu

> I disagree. Good writing can't save a bad performance.


What I think both Rucka and I (but at least I) mean by this is that Kate should be written recognizably. If her adapted self strays too far from her established character, I don't care if she were played by my top picks for the role, even if the performance given were stellar.

----------


## Caivu

By J.H. Williams III:

Screenshot_20180808-230024.jpg

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## Caivu

By winterStorm42 on DA:

Screenshot_20180809-022743.jpg

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## Immortal Weapon

> What I think both Rucka and I (but at least I) mean by this is that Kate should be written recognizably. If her adapted self strays too far from her established character, I don't care if she were played by my top picks for the role, even if the performance given were stellar.


Unrecognizable is par the course with the Arrowverse. Ollie, Laurel, Mr. Terrific, Ray Palmer and a couple I'm forgetting are nothing like their comic counterparts. It's something I'm bracing myself for. It's why I wish she had appeared in Gotham instead.

----------


## Bat-Meal

> Unrecognizable is par the course with the Arrowverse. Ollie, Laurel, Mr. Terrific, Ray Palmer and a couple I'm forgetting are nothing like their comic counterparts. It's something I'm bracing myself for.* It's why I wish she had appeared in Gotham instead.*


But if she had appeared in Gotham wouldn't she have been a little kid?

Anyone know if they're keeping Batman and Batwoman related, or doing away with that?

----------


## Immortal Weapon

> But if she had appeared in Gotham wouldn't she have been a little kid?


She would be but I believe that show would be truer to the character.

----------


## Caivu

By Boss Logic:

IMG_20180807_235118.jpg

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## Caivu

Edit: double post

----------


## Caivu

By Brian Rogers:

Screenshot_20180810-111814.jpg

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## Caivu

By Marcos Medina:

Screenshot_20180810-111706.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Chris Samnee:

IMG_20180807_143509.jpg

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## Caivu

By Taurence Bell:

20180812_030743.jpg

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## Caivu

By jrs_art on IG:

Screenshot_20180812-085736.jpg

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## Caivu

By Janek Kałwa:

Screenshot_20180808-230159.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Maybe lost in the shuffle of recent news is that the Lego set with the new minifig was released.

----------


## Raijin

What villains and characters does everyone hope to see on the Batwoman show. Honestly I'm kinda bummed that this will take place in Gotham City. I wish they would have given her a city of her own.

----------


## Caivu

> What villains and characters does everyone hope to see on the Batwoman show. Honestly I'm kinda bummed that this will take place in Gotham City. I wish they would have given her a city of her own.


No reason to not have it be Gotham. For all we know, she's the city's only vigilante at the moment.

Anyway, I want to see the Religion of Crime as villians, of course; Mannheim, Whisper A'Daire, Abbot, Shard. Maybe Alice later on. Knife's another possibility, though her role would probably be significantly changed. 

Jacob, Bette, and Catherine as supporting characters.

----------


## Caivu

Update on the apartment project:

Apartment.jpgApartment.jpg

Working out the dimensions of the coffered ceiling is a minor nightmare.

----------


## Jokerz79

It's a CW all you need is to be able to say your lines, look pretty, kick butt in fight scenes, and occasionally cry and you don't even have to be good at that in truth Ruby Rose will be fine. If this was a feature film then I'd be worried she needs to be Dean Cain not Christopher Reeve  :Big Grin:

----------


## Immortal Weapon

> What villains and characters does everyone hope to see on the Batwoman show. Honestly I'm kinda bummed that this will take place in Gotham City. I wish they would have given her a city of her own.


Gotham is a big city. She can be responsible for defending a district of the city. Catwoman got the East End, Batgirl got Burnside. CW can make something up for Kate.

----------


## Caivu

By Drew Bird:

Screenshot_20180814-020150.jpg

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## Caivu

By Jeffery Brown:

Screenshot_20180814-121431.jpg

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## Restingvoice

> What villains and characters does everyone hope to see on the Batwoman show. Honestly I'm kinda bummed that this will take place in Gotham City. I wish they would have given her a city of her own.


This is a series, not a movie, so we can actually see everyone
They should start with the most popular story, Elegy, and everyone involved in it.

----------


## Caivu

By jock:

Screenshot_20180814-042207.jpg

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## Caivu

By Michael Lark:

IMG_20180814_192453.jpg

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## Caivu

Issue #18 was fantastic. Despite some small problems I have, it was an incredibly uplifting finale.

*spoilers:*
Seeing that Kate is now finally, _finally_ free of all the mental crap that was wearing her down this whole series is so heartwarming. She weathered one of the worst set of experiences she's ever been through, having been brought almost to her all-time lowest point, and came out stronger. Tahani's plan ultimately failed. I hate that she's still out there, but there was at least a tease of future stories with her.
*end of spoilers*

*spoilers:*
And speaking of those teases... they mitigated a lot of the sadness that this book is ending. There are stories still to tell with Kate and Renee, plenty of them by the looks of it, so I think we may be seeing them again sooner than later. I sure hope so, anyway.
*end of spoilers*

This might be in my top 3 Batwoman issues.

----------


## millernumber1

> Issue #18 was fantastic. Despite some small problems I have, it was an incredibly uplifting finale.
> 
> *spoilers:*
> Seeing that Kate is now finally, _finally_ free of all the mental crap that was wearing her down this whole series is so heartwarming. She weathered one of the worst set of experiences she's ever been through, having been brought almost to her all-time lowest point, and came out stronger. Tahani's plan ultimately failed. I hate that she's still out there, but there was at least a tease of future stories with her.
> *end of spoilers*
> 
> *spoilers:*
> And speaking of those teases... they mitigated a lot of the sadness that this book is ending. There are stories still to tell with Kate and Renee, plenty of them by the looks of it, so I think we may be seeing them again sooner than later. I sure hope so, anyway.
> *end of spoilers*
> ...


What are your other two, then?  :Smile: 

I thought it was pretty good. Glimpses of Tim and Steph in that big spread will definitely make me happy. But on the whole, I really liked the idea of moving forward, which has been done with Kate before, but is much more effective this time. And I like that Kate's keeping Beth herself, instead of putting her on a boat. Since Beth was my biggest concern going into this series, that's very satisfying. Liked the Kate and Renee stuff, though I really hope to see both of them sooner rather than later.  :Smile:

----------


## Caivu

> What are your other two, then?


New 52 #0 is definitely the top.

----------


## Caivu

By AgostinoF on DA:

Screenshot_20180814-225342.jpg

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## millernumber1

> New 52 #0 is definitely the top.


Interesting. If I were picking a top three, I'd definitely have to include something from Go - probably the one where it ends with Kate looking at the Batsignal in the sky. And maybe the one where Kate finds out that Alice is her sister from Elegy. It's hard to pick Williams issues. But I have a strong preference for Rucka over Blackman, in terms of writing.  :Smile: 

I think I'd also include the issue where Kate's whole family confronts her, as ProgmanX has pointed out.  :Smile:

----------


## willtupper

Great issue. Thanks Caivu, I wouldn't have picked this up without your endorsement.

Might be worth noting (as it's a wonderful work, well-worth reading), this issue was HEAVILY influenced by William Saroyan's 1939 play, "The Time of Your Life."

----------


## Caivu

> Interesting. If I were picking a top three, I'd definitely have to include something from Go - probably the one where it ends with Kate looking at the Batsignal in the sky.


That issue's probably my second-place pick.




> Great issue. Thanks Caivu, I wouldn't have picked this up without your endorsement.
> 
> Might be worth noting (as it's a wonderful work, well-worth reading), this issue was HEAVILY influenced by William Saroyan's 1939 play, "The Time of Your Life."


You're welcome! And that's interesting about the play, but knowing Bennett, that kind of literary reference doesn't surprise me. I'll have to look into that.

----------


## willtupper

It's wonderful. Here's a quote from the play, where I think it's influence on this issue is pretty apparent:

“In the time of your life, live—so that in that good time there shall be no ugliness or death for yourself or for any life your life touches. Seek goodness everywhere, and when it is found, bring it out of its hiding place and let it be free and unashamed.

Place in matter and in flesh the least of the values, for these are the things that hold death and must pass away. Discover in all things that which shines and is beyond corruption. Encourage virtue in whatever heart it may have been driven into secrecy and sorrow by the shame and terror of the world. Ignore the obvious, for it is unworthy of the clear eye and the kindly heart.

Be the inferior of no man, or of any men be superior. Remember that every man is a variation of yourself. No man's guilt is not yours, nor is any man's innocence a thing apart. Despise evil and ungodliness, but not men of ungodliness or evil. These, understand. Have no shame in being kindly and gentle but if the time comes in the time of your life to kill, kill and have no regret.

In the time of your life, live—so that in that wondrous time you shall not add to the misery and sorrow of the world, but shall smile to the infinite delight and mystery of it.”

― William Saroyan, The Time Of Your Life 




> You're welcome! And that's interesting about the play, but knowing Bennett, that kind of literary reference doesn't surprise me. I'll have to look into that.

----------


## Caivu

Yeah, that quote is definitely similar to the final few pages here.

----------


## Caivu

Edit: double post again

----------


## ZorakLovesComics

I read Batwoman up until J. H. Williams III left. I can't really speak on the later stuff because of that but I do love what I read. The art really spoiled me.

----------


## Man-Thing

Just read today's issue. Damn that was a trip. That final splash page with all the arcs we'll never see  :Frown:

----------


## Caivu

> Just read today's issue. Damn that was a trip. That final splash page with all the arcs we'll never see


Don't give up hope on that front.

----------


## Caivu

Unused(?) Bad Blood art by Alon Chou:

IMG_20180815_213721.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Arief Leuvenardi:

Screenshot_20180816-043942.jpg

----------


## Dylan Davison

> Don't give up hope on that front.


Yeah, with the show coming up they should at least try a new series.

----------


## Caivu

> Yeah, with the show coming up they should at least try a new series.


I'm seriously going to politely yell at DC about it if they don't follow up on those teases. At the _very least_ follow up on Tahani and Fatima; what are they up to? What's Tahani going to do now since she can't pull this sort of complex gambit again?

But the final two-page spread has enough potential to, without exaggeration, fill out another 18-issue series at least. It would be a cruel waste to abandon all those ideas.

----------


## millernumber1

> I'm seriously going to politely yell at DC about it if they don't follow up on those teases. At the _very least_ follow up on Tahani and Fatima; what are they up to? What's Tahani going to do now since she can't pull this sort of complex gambit again?
> 
> But the final two-page spread has enough potential to, without exaggeration, fill out another 18-issue series at least. It would be a cruel waste to abandon all those ideas.


See...that would just keep me away again. I was just reading ProgmanX's reviews on the Batwoman series, and they are as onboard as you are, but I think it's clear that there's not a widespread resonance for Tahani, etc, in the Kate fandom. Or do you disagree - you think there really is an audience? And if so, why didn't the readership respond to this iteration of her solo?

----------


## Caivu

> See...that would just keep me away again. I was just reading ProgmanX's reviews on the Batwoman series, and they are as onboard as you are, but I think it's clear that there's not a widespread resonance for Tahani, etc, in the Kate fandom. Or do you disagree - you think there really is an audience? And if so, why didn't the readership respond to this iteration of her solo?


I'm not going to say she's the most popular villain, but aside from maybe Nocturna, she _is_ the most evil one Kate's faced, and the only one so far who's completely gotten away; aside from her plans failing, she suffered _no_ repurcussions for her actions. Even Wolf Spider got beaten up. 

Plus, she was intended to be an archenemy, and that one panel at the end of #18 clearly shows further intent for her. It's not a matter of whether fans like it, it's about not abandoning an entire series worth of ideas when they're _right there_. Do _something_ with all that raw material. It would be cruel to show all that potential and just waste it.

The larger question of why this series didn't click with lots of people has an easy answer, I think: it's not what they expected. It's not what _I_ expected, but I rolled with it. Many didn't, and never appreciated what this book was doing and how far it planned things in advance. Just today I read a review where the author clearly had no idea what this book was even _about_ beyond the surface.

----------


## Dylan Davison

> I'm seriously going to politely yell at DC about it if they don't follow up on those teases. At the _very least_ follow up on Tahani and Fatima; what are they up to? What's Tahani going to do now since she can't pull this sort of complex gambit again?
> 
> But the final two-page spread has enough potential to, without exaggeration, fill out another 18-issue series at least. It would be a cruel waste to abandon all those ideas.


I mean it seemed like things that had yet to come, and to me it feels like a hint of a new series, idk.

Maybe a question and batwoman series? Haha. Wishful thinking, I'm sure.

----------


## Caivu

> I mean it seemed like things that had yet to come, and to me it feels like a hint of a new series, idk.
> 
> Maybe a question and batwoman series? Haha. Wishful thinking, I'm sure.


I desperately hope so. A lot of lines in this seemed like winks to the audience to that effect.

----------


## Dylan Davison

> I desperately hope so. A lot of lines in this seemed like winks to the audience to that effect.


Agreed. I mean, Flash, Arrow, Supergirl all have comics, right? So if her show does get picked up, she should have one too.

----------


## millernumber1

> I'm not going to say she's the most popular villain, but aside from maybe Nocturna, she _is_ the most evil one Kate's faced, and the only one so far who's completely gotten away; aside from her plans failing, she suffered _no_ repurcussions for her actions. Even Wolf Spider got beaten up. 
> 
> Plus, she was intended to be an archenemy, and that one panel at the end of #18 clearly shows further intent for her. It's not a matter of whether fans like it, it's about not abandoning an entire series worth of ideas when they're _right there_. Do _something_ with all that raw material. It would be cruel to show all that potential and just waste it.
> 
> The larger question of why this series didn't click with lots of people has an easy answer, I think: it's not what they expected. It's not what _I_ expected, but I rolled with it. Many didn't, and never appreciated what this book was doing and how far it planned things in advance. Just today I read a review where the author clearly had no idea what this book was even _about_ beyond the surface.


I think, if you want more Kate, you need to balance existing audience expectations and new reader enthusiasm. I don't think Bennett did either, so I don't see how even someone who really loves Tahani and the Lost Year cast can reasonably argue that DC should sink more time and energy into that concept, at least not in the direct follow up (unless that follow up isn't for five years, minimum).

Bennett clearly got some really devoted fans, and that's great - but that's not enough to sustain a solo that we all know Kate can sustain. I think agitating for more of what didn't sustain this book is the wrong way to go. Now, obviously, I'm not a fan of this run, so I would say something like that. But I think it's reasonable to say that something didn't work here, and blaming it all on the audience doesn't seem like a good way to go.

----------


## Caivu

They don't have to return to the Lost Year. That's done and dusted. It got brought back into Kate's life to hurt her, and she made amends for it, and moved on. This kind of plan can't reasonably work on her again. But that doesn't mean Tahani and Fatima aren't still useful as villains, and they're just one thread in those teases.

----------


## millernumber1

> They don't have to return to the Lost Year. That's done and dusted. It got brought back into Kate's life to hurt her, and she made amends for it, and moved on. This kind of plan can't reasonably work on her again. But that doesn't mean Tahani and Fatima aren't still useful as villains, and they're just one thread in those teases.


But the teases are only desired by 16,000 readers. The market for Batwoman is much bigger than that. And that still doesn't answer my question (indirect, I admit, but direct now): what went wrong with this series that it dropped so far so quickly? Was it because of the Lost Year/villains people didn't like (my own theory)? Was it because of the negative backlash against the Colony plot (which is a viable argument, since even though it doesn't seem to have hurt Detective's sales significantly, it does tend to be brought up as a negative by many fans, even though I personally really love it)? Was it the art (ProgmanX's first theory)?

----------


## Caivu

There's no way to accurately gauge what the audience for those teases is. If they were to use all those elements in something more traditionally actiony, I bet it would do just fine. 

_That's_ where I saw the bulk of complaints: that the story was slow (despite that being the intent) when it had been billed as some sort of Bond/Metal Gear Solid hybrid (and I think it still is, just not in the obvious ways). Part of that slowness was seeing Kate profoundly shaken mentally, and I can get why people didn't take to that even though it's a core component of the run.

----------


## millernumber1

> There's no way to accurately gauge what the audience for those teases is. If they were to use all those elements in something more traditionally actiony, I bet it would do just fine. 
> 
> _That's_ where I saw the bulk of complaints: that the story was slow (despite that being the intent) when it had been billed as some sort of Bond/Metal Gear Solid hybrid (and I think it still is, just not in the obvious ways). Part of that slowness was seeing Kate profoundly shaken mentally, and I can get why people didn't take to that even though it's a core component of the run.


I like Kate shaken to her core. I mean, that's the base of Elegy/Go, and most of the Blackman/Williams run. I just have to care about the things that are shaking her, and I wanted to, but didn't. And as I think I said way back when, the issue where they actually showed the romance was one of the stronger ones in getting me to care (as much as I did through the run).

I dunno. I still maintain that while adding new stuff is always important, Bette, Beth, and Jake should have been the focus. (Though I would have taken Julia in addition, since I'm already a fan of her from Batman Eternal.)

----------


## Caivu

But Elegy and the New 52 run weren't "Kate shaken to her core". Not even close. They didn't effect her abilities, for one thing.

----------


## millernumber1

> But Elegy and the New 52 run weren't "Kate shaken to her core". Not even close. They didn't effect her abilities, for one thing.


Finding out her dad lied to her, and her sister was insane and evil? That was pretty shaking to her core. I agree it didn't affect her abilities, but...Batman's shaken to his core right now, and the only thing really affected is his detective ability, apparently.

You're probably right that the n52 didn't shake her to her core (though Nocturna probably should have - but they didn't deal with the consequences of that), but I think the first 20 or so issues are really her trying to deal with what she found out in Elegy - and you can see that most clearly in her relationship with Jake.

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## Caivu

By Chris Willdig:

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## Caivu

By Horacio Minteguiaga:

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## Caivu

By Eric Sobel:

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## Caivu

By @RADMANRBARR on Twitter:

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## danielsan52

Was 70s Batwoman really a thing?  


9FF782F3-4536-47DA-871F-67CD818AE4F6.jpg9FF782F3-4536-47DA-871F-67CD818AE4F6.jpg

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## Caivu

> Was 70’s Batwoman really a thing?  
> 
> 
> 9FF782F3-4536-47DA-871F-67CD818AE4F6.jpg9FF782F3-4536-47DA-871F-67CD818AE4F6.jpg


That was the first Batwoman, Kathy Kane, who debuted in 1956.

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## danielsan52

> That was the first Batwoman, Kathy Kane, who debuted in 1956.



I know.  But that art is from 70s or 80s (I think) and the costume is more modern than the 50s costume.

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## Caivu

> I know.  But that art is from 70s or 80s (I think) and the costume is more modern than the 50s costume.


She was still around then...

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## danielsan52

In the regular DCU?  Earth-Two?

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## Caivu

> In the regular DCU?  Earth-Two?


Her main universe version was killed in 1979.

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## Caivu

By strawberry-menace on Tumblr:

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## Caivu

By Isaac Goodhart:

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## Caivu

By Kerin Cunningham:

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## Caivu

By Amy Reeder:

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## Caivu

By Fredrik Mattsson:

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## Caivu

By Raphael Vaxelaire:

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## Caivu

Another month, another round of solicits with no Kate (except a statue).  :Frown:

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## Caivu

By Lucas Filappi:

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## Caivu

Reading this description of Martina, I'm convinced she'd make an excellent Batwoman villain.

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## Caivu

By Andrew Griffith:

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## Gulftastic

> In the regular DCU?  Earth-Two?


Earth 2. I remember an issue of The Brave & The Bold when it was strictly a Batman team up title, and he went to Earth 2 to team up with their Robin, and Batwoman was part of that story. I recall she had to be blindfolded on the way to Robin's 'batcave' so she wouldn't know it's location.

Here you go, it was this one.

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/569001734152740328/

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## Caivu

By Richard Stapleton:

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## Oberon

A vague memory.  Still, that one might be down in the basement in a box, in a room (not necessarily well preserved).

I loved the Aparo art. It was a sort of stylistic thing, that often lent itself to the more surreal elements or unusual pairings with Batman.   I only vaguely recall the original Batwoman was a part of this story.

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## Caivu

By linesanddreams on IG:

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## Caivu

By tomturbo17 om Tumblr:

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## Caivu

Small mention in today's 'Tec.

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## Caivu

By Maicou Oliveira:

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## Caivu

By @Platyloid on Twitter:

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## Oberon

I'm always behind with comics and when they're every other week I get really behind, so it does appear that Kate will not be regularly in 'Tec and I'll probably drop it from my list at the comic shop.

But it is nice that an effort to keep her/continuity is in place.

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## Powertool

Finished reading the eighteenth and last issue of _Batwoman_ and my impression about this latest volume of the title is...

meh.

The only thing I'm probably going to remember about these 18 issues in the future is the work of the art department, since I think that Marguerite Bennett was doing a much better job at writing duties on Dynamite's _Sheena Queen fo the Jungle_ at the same time this was published. And when a writer manages to make a jungle queen that has always had the percentage of skin that was left exposed by her fur bikini as her main selling point a more compelling character than the concentration of internal turmoil and determination to face her old demons, you know that something went very wrong.

As far as I'm concerned, since I personally appreciate the character of Batwoman (I wouldn't be here otherwise), I hope for the next incarnation of her title to have somebody completely different at the helm and most importantly somebody capable of a completely new take on the character. The main sin of this volume in my opinion was the amount of retreading of themes that were already present in Rucka and Williams's runs and it all ultimately felt like a giant exercise of going around in circles without making it too evident. It's well past time for Kate to start walking towards the future and end this cycle of remembering the ways she failed in the past and finding new ways to fail in the present.

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## Caivu

> As far as I'm concerned, since I personally appreciate the character of Batwoman (I wouldn't be here otherwise), I hope for the next incarnation of her title to have somebody completely different at the helm and most importantly somebody capable of a completely new take on the character. The main sin of this volume in my opinion was the amount of retreading of themes that were already present in Rucka and Williams's runs and it all ultimately felt like a giant exercise of going around in circles without making it too evident. It's well past time for Kate to start walking towards the future and end this cycle of remembering the ways she failed in the past and finding new ways to fail in the present.


With all due respect, I think you missed that one of the biggest themes of this series is precisely what you're describing: cyclicity, and how it can eat away at you (in fairness, a lot of people have missed this). Kate's narration even spells that out in issue #9, I think it was. It was a synthesis of sorts of most of Kate's history to propel her forward, and I love it for that (and other reasons).

It's all intentional. From the way the story was constructed  as one long multi-arc tale (like the Williams/Blackman run), to smaller things like her returning to the Sahara (one site of her training) to the way Tahani deliberately tried to reorchestrate Alice's attack from Elegy. It's why the flashbacks were so important. It's why the first arc is a mini version of the next two.

And it's especially present in Tahani and Kate's relationship. They are explicity compared and contrasted throughout this run, and to make a long story short, it's why Kate ultimately ends up winning. She accepts and moves on from the ghosts in her past, and looks toward the future, as you said. But Tahani does not, and remains stuck.

There were a lot of problems in this series, but the main story was almost perfectly rock-solid in its construction. The foreshadowing alone was amazing.

I certainly hope there's not a "new take", at least not until all those story teases are told.

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## Caivu

By artemisarts on Tumblr:

7f5aea42-9592-4bd1-b762-7bdde14cec4d.jpg

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## signalman112

> Earth 2. I remember an issue of The Brave & The Bold when it was strictly a Batman team up title, and he went to Earth 2 to team up with their Robin, and Batwoman was part of that story. I recall she had to be blindfolded on the way to Robin's 'batcave' so she wouldn't know it's location.
> 
> Here you go, it was this one.
> 
> https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/569001734152740328/


BATWOMAN was on both Earth-1 and Earth-2.
Earth-2 Batwoman appeared again briefly in Brave and the Bold #197.
Earth-1 Batwoman was killed in Detective Comics #485, "The Vengeance Vow".

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Detective_Comics_Vol_1_485

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## Caivu

The beautiful finished piece by Andrew Griffith:

95f93c72-887e-4223-8088-f3c314b39e6c.jpg

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## Caivu

By Alexandria Ellis:

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## Caivu

By @emmilions on Twitter:

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## Powertool

> With all due respect, I think you missed that one of the biggest themes of this series is precisely what you're describing: cyclicity, and how it can eat away at you (in fairness, a lot of people have missed this). Kate's narration even spells that out in issue #9, I think it was. It was a synthesis of sorts of most of Kate's history to propel her forward, and I love it for that (and other reasons).
> 
> It's all intentional. From the way the story was constructed  as one long multi-arc tale (like the Williams/Blackman run), to smaller things like her returning to the Sahara (one site of her training) to the way Tahani deliberately tried to reorchestrate Alice's attack from Elegy. It's why the flashbacks were so important. It's why the first arc is a mini version of the next two.
> 
> And it's especially present in Tahani and Kate's relationship. They are explicity compared and contrasted throughout this run, and to make a long story short, it's why Kate ultimately ends up winning. She accepts and moves on from the ghosts in her past, and looks toward the future, as you said. But Tahani does not, and remains stuck.
> 
> There were a lot of problems in this series, but the main story was almost perfectly rock-solid in its construction. The foreshadowing alone was amazing.
> 
> I certainly hope there's not a "new take", at least not until all those story teases are told.


And you, on your part, missed the point where Kate now lives again in the tower with the sequoia growing inside of it (she even ponders about the very long time it takes for that kind of tree to grow to such heights) and is ready to restart a romantic relationship with Renée Montoya. Why? Because they're iconic parts of her past history and therefore she's forever destined to go back to them. Renée pretty much wore a label on her clothes that spelt "please return to Ms. Kate Kane if found" the very moment she re-appeared in _Detective Comics_, for Pete's sake!

This is just the n-th example of comic book's obsession with cyclicity stunting any kind of interesting turns a character's life could take, the reason why the Teen Titans, the X-Men, Spider-Man, etc. are the shadows of the characters they used to be before everything in comics started being utterly self-referential and often just plain boring. And you come to tell me that Batwoman moved away from the ghosts of her past? Give me a break. This is a classic case of what you can read between the lines ("It'c ompletely OK to stay anchored to the past") and what is written in those lines ("You should move on") simply don't match. And that's why this whole run is a giant, nicely-drawn "meh" in my opinion.

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## Caivu

> And you, on your part, missed the point where Kate now lives again in the tower with the sequoia growing inside of it (she even ponders about the very long time it takes for that kind of tree to grow to such heights) and is ready to restart a romantic relationship with Renée Montoya. Why? Because they're iconic parts of her past history and therefore she's forever destined to go back to them. Renée pretty much wore a label on her clothes that spelt "please return to Ms. Kate Kane if found" the very moment she re-appeared in _Detective Comics_, for Pete's sake!


Nothing "destined" about it. Complaining about her going back to the Kane building is... weird, frankly. That's where her apartment is. _Of course_  she's going to go back there. That's like complaining Bruce still lives in Wayne Manor. Plus Beth's living there now, in her own specialized room, so that's a major change.

Similar with Renee. She and Kate are both at way different points in their life now than when they first dated.




> And you come to tell me that Batwoman moved away from the ghosts of her past? Give me a break. This is a classic case of what you can read between the lines ("It'c ompletely OK to stay anchored to the past") and what is written in those lines ("You should move on") simply don't match.


Yes, she did move on from her past ghosts. She accepted and came to terms with what she did on the island, something she had been suppressing in her mind for years, and did so by going through some of the worst stuff she has _ever_ been through. Those aren't "interesting turns"? What do you want, then?

You're misreading what's being said. It's not "stay anchored in the past", it's "stay anchored" full stop. Stay grounded, so that you can move forward.

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## Osiris-Rex

> You're misreading what's being said. It's not "stay anchored in the past", it's "stay anchored" full stop. Stay grounded, so that you can move forward.


The whole point of an anchor is to keep something from moving.

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## Caivu

> The whole point of an anchor is to keep something from moving.


Yeah, I'm aware. It's a metaphor for having a firm grounding and not just being blown about by whatever. The image of plant roots is the one actually used in the comic, which better conveys that idea.

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## Caivu

By Michael W. Kus:

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## Caivu

By Otto Schmidt:

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## Twice-named

So, I’ve been thinking about Kate and Renee and I don’t think these two should be in a relationship. Here’s why. In 52, Kate punches Renee in the face after Renee says Kate’s dress is not concealing anything she hasn’t already seen. That’s domestic violence. Then there’s the time in Go when Renee grabs Kate aggressively by the arm and tries to slut-shame her. That’s emotional abuse. Thoughts, Caivu?

----------


## Powertool

> Nothing "destined" about it. Complaining about her going back to the Kane building is... weird, frankly. That's where her apartment is. _Of course_  she's going to go back there. That's like complaining Bruce still lives in Wayne Manor. Plus Beth's living there now, in her own specialized room, so that's a major change.


The only change that would ever deserve the adjective "major" happened in Batwoman #16, written and drawn by J.H. Williams III, where the entire building was turned to rubble and the sequoia to toothpicks by a colossal Hydra. And that change brought forward the issue where Kate and Maggie moved to their new apartment, which was one of the best stories of that cycle, with the reunion of the whole family.

But now -- surprise! -- the building _and the sequoia_ are back to their place like nothing ever happened, meaning that at least two great issues of a run that I loved were retconned for absolutely no reason aside from "oh, yeah, that building is easily recognizable!". And that's the kind of attitude that's been killing serialized comics for two decades or more: periodically cycling back to what is arbitrarily considered "iconic" for a character with no regards for any actual growth of a character. The whole of Bennett's run has been an act of worship towards the superficial aspects of the character of Batwoman.

At least when Wayne Manor was wiped out in Cataclysm the writers had the decency to respect the readers' intelligence and show the trouble the Bat-family went to rebuild it while keeping the Bat-Cave a secret. But that's the problem, after all: respect is a rare commodity these days.




> Similar with Renee. She and Kate are both at way different points in their life now than when they first dated.


No. Renée definitely isn't. In fact, since the whole thing of her leaving the GCPD, meeting Vic Sage and becoming the new Question was, with 99% probability, completely wiped out from the continuity, that means that her history can be summarized this way: "she broke up with Kate after an argument that turned gratuitously violent and then spent years off-screen doing nothing of importance until the conscience of the Universe decided that Kate Kane needed a girlfriend again".

On the other hand, Kate probably is a different person now, since the one I remember from a few years ago would have been smart enough to think twice before hooking up again with the woman who gave her help when she was at her lowest point due to alcohol abuse in the form of a hook to her face. Of course she'd try her best to keep everything civil, but nothing more.




> Yes, she did move on from her past ghosts. She accepted and came to terms with what she did on the island, something she had been suppressing in her mind for years, and did so by going through some of the worst stuff she has _ever_ been through. Those aren't "interesting turns"? What do you want, then?
> 
> You're misreading what's being said. It's not "stay anchored in the past", it's "stay anchored" full stop. Stay grounded, so that you can move forward.


I want a character that doesn't take eighteen issues to move on from the demons that were introduced out of the blue in the first one and were the only thing the narrative focused on month after month after month (Bennett may not be Claremont, but is it possible that so few modern writers have any consideration for those brilliant things that are subplots?). Because if this is the way DC wants to waste a whole volume of Batwoman after the mess that plagued the previous one, then it's quite clear that the writing will forever be on the wall for any future writer approaching the character. And that writing spells out "Batwoman has to suffer".

----------


## Caivu

> The only change that would ever deserve the adjective "major" happened in Batwoman #16, written and drawn by J.H. Williams III, where the entire building was turned to rubble and the sequoia to toothpicks by a colossal Hydra. And that change brought forward the issue where Kate and Maggie moved to their new apartment, which was one of the best stories of that cycle, with the reunion of the whole family.
> 
> But now -- surprise! -- the building _and the sequoia_ are back to their place like nothing ever happened, meaning that at least two great issues of a run that I loved were retconned for absolutely no reason aside from "oh, yeah, that building is easily recognizable!". And that's the kind of attitude that's been killing serialized comics for two decades or more: periodically cycling back to what is arbitrarily considered "iconic" for a character with no regards for any actual growth of a character. The whole of Bennett's run has been an act of worship towards the superficial aspects of the character of Batwoman.
> 
> At least when Wayne Manor was wiped out in Cataclysm the writers had the decency to respect the readers' intelligence and show the trouble the Bat-family went to rebuild it while keeping the Bat-Cave a secret. But that's the problem, after all: respect is a rare commodity these days.


If you're going to blame someone for bringing back that building (for whatever reason), at least blame the right person. That building's been back since the very start of Rebirth, in 'Tec, so it's Tynion's "fault".

And Bennett understands much more about Kate than just the superficial. That's why this run worked so well, because she understands the sorts of things that would throw Kate off. And if a character's growth is so important, and it is, then their accoutrements returning shouldn't necessarily matter so much if their character stays true, and that's the case with Kate.




> No. Renée definitely isn't. In fact, since the whole thing of her leaving the GCPD, meeting Vic Sage and becoming the new Question was, with 99% probability, completely wiped out from the continuity, that means that her history can be summarized this way: "she broke up with Kate after an argument that turned gratuitously violent and then spent years off-screen doing nothing of importance until the conscience of the Universe decided that Kate Kane needed a girlfriend again".


Yes, she definitely is, even with the Question portion of her history gone. She's openly gay now, which is part of her and Kate's original argument (that you're wrongly describing as "gratuitously violent") that caused their breakup.




> On the other hand, Kate probably is a different person now, since the one I remember from a few years ago would have been smart enough to think twice before hooking up again with the woman who gave her help when she was at her lowest point due to alcohol abuse in the form of a hook to her face. Of course she'd try her best to keep everything civil, but nothing more.


What are you talking about? If Renee has _ever_ punched Kate, it was in 52 or Five Books of Blood, both of which are not really canon anymore, and neither situation involved alcohol.




> I want a character that doesn't take eighteen issues to move on from the demons that were introduced out of the blue in the first one and were the only thing the narrative focused on month after month after month (Bennett may not be Claremont, but is it possible that so few modern writers have any consideration for those brilliant things that are subplots?).


Did you have a similar problem when the Williams/Blackman run took exactly the same number of issues to tell their first story? Or that Kate struggling with the "out-of-the-blue" reveal of Beth as Alice took even longer?

I disagree that this series doesn't have subplots, but I think they're more like A and B plots: one is the fight against the Many Arms, one is Kate's internal struggle.




> Because if this is the way DC wants to waste a whole volume of Batwoman after the mess that plagued the previous one, then it's quite clear that the writing will forever be on the wall for any future writer approaching the character. And that writing spells out "Batwoman has to suffer".


Oh, heaven forbid characters not suffer.

----------


## Caivu

> So, I’ve been thinking about Kate and Renee and I don’t think these two should be in a relationship. Here’s why. In 52, Kate punches Renee in the face after Renee says Kate’s dress is not concealing anything she hasn’t already seen. That’s domestic violence. Then there’s the time in Go when Renee grabs Kate aggressively by the arm and tries to slut-shame her. That’s emotional abuse. Thoughts, Caivu?


1. Most of Kate and Renee's parts of 52 have been retconned and can be pretty safely excised. The scene you're talking about has the exact opposite situation from Elegy onward: that Renee came out before Kate. Also, Kate was Batwoman at that time, so that's two contradictions to the present. Ignore them.

2. The larger context is that Renee is worried about Kate being in a dangerous dump of a bar. From her perspective, Kate has only gotten worse since their breakup, and she's scared for her.

Even assuming both those things are still canon and can be taken only at face value, there's none of that sort of stuff between them since the New 52 started.

I mean, going by the original logic, Bruce and Selina shouldn't be together, since she's robbed him and they've fought each other multiple times. Dick and Barbara shouldn't be a couple because they've beaten each other up. Etc.

----------


## Twice-named

> 1. Most of Kate and Renee's parts of 52 have been retconned and can be pretty safely excised. The scene you're talking about has the exact opposite situation from Elegy onward: that Renee came out before Kate. Also, Kate was Batwoman at that time, so that's two contradictions to the present. Ignore them.


Yes, some parts of 52 were retconned (e.g. the length of time since Kate and Renee last saw each other going from 10 years to 2 years) but I don’t recall anything pointing to the punch in the face being retconned out. With Rebirth, the question is whether Renee is not the Question because of Dr. Manhattan. 





> 2. The larger context is that Renee is worried about Kate being in a dangerous dump of a bar. From her perspective, Kate has only gotten worse since their breakup, and she's scared for her.


Concern for someone doesn’t excuse emotional abuse. 




> Even assuming both those things are still canon and can be taken only at face value, there's none of that sort of stuff between them since the New 52 started.


It’s only a matter of time until the next instance of abuse. 




> I mean, going by the original logic, Bruce and Selina shouldn't be together, since she's robbed him and they've fought each other multiple times. Dick and Barbara shouldn't be a couple because they've beaten each other up. Etc.


No, they shouldn’t be together.

----------


## Caivu

> Yes, some parts of 52 were retconned (e.g. the length of time since Kate and Renee last saw each other going from 10 years to 2 years) but I don’t recall anything pointing to the punch in the face being retconned out. With Rebirth, the question is whether Renee is not the Question because of Dr. Manhattan.


That scene has been retconned because it directly contradicts newer stuff. Not just in Batwoman, but Gotham Central, as well. It doesn't apply any more.




> Concern for someone doesn’t excuse emotional abuse.


Explain how she was emotionally abusive? Grabbing someone by the arm and asking what the hell they're doing in a bad situation? Sounds like a reach to me.




> It’s only a matter of time until the next instance of abuse.


No, it's not. They don't have any examples of being abusive to each other currently, unless you strain things past the point of being reasonable.




> No, they shouldn’t be together.


Well, at least you're consistent.

----------


## Twice-named

> That scene has been retconned because it directly contradicts newer stuff. Not just in Batwoman, but Gotham Central, as well. It doesn't apply any more.


 I don’t know what newer stuff contradicts the punch in the face. Unless we’re saying that, since Renee is not the Question, her story in 52 never happened (though it’s more likely Dr. Manhattan messed with her mind). Gotham Central was pre-52. 






> Explain how she was emotionally abusive? Grabbing someone by the arm and asking what the hell they're doing in a bad situation? Sounds like a reach to me.


I’ve never slut-shamed my partner. Calling a current or former lover a slut is abusive. Renee’s actions in the bar were also controlling. 






> No, it's not. They don't have any examples of being abusive to each other currently, unless you strain things past the point of being reasonable.


People who abuse have a high chance of abusing again. Statistics bear it out. 




Well, at least you're consistent.[/QUOTE]

BTW, I’m not looking to argue. Just wanted to get your thoughts on it. Thanks for replying.

----------


## Caivu

> I don’t know what newer stuff contradicts the punch in the face. Unless we’re saying that, since Renee is not the Question, her story in 52 never happened (though it’s more likely Dr. Manhattan messed with her mind). Gotham Central was pre-52.


I'm talking about the fact that in the punch scene, Kate is still in the closet and Renee is out. In everything after 52, the exact opposite is true. That obviously contradicts, making that scene retconned away. 




> I’ve never slut-shamed my partner. Calling a current or former lover a slut is abusive. Renee’s actions in the bar were also controlling.


Renee is partially acting in her capacity as a cop, so, uh, yes she's being a bit controlling. If I was a cop and saw a friend or ex in a bad situation, especially while on the job, then absolutely I'd want to know what the hell they're doing there.

As for Renee's "slut-shaming", I think it has a different purpose. Renee broke up with Kate because she saw her as irresponsible and flightly and naive. And the bar scene does absolutely nothing to remove that idea. So she's trying to get through to Kate that she's in a dangerous situation.  She's not actually calling her a slut.




> BTW, I’m not looking to argue. Just wanted to get your thoughts on it. Thanks for replying.


Well... okay, but forgive me for being a tiny bit suspicious about that.

----------


## Caivu

By Nelson A. Vega:

Kate_Kane_by_nelsonavega.jpg

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## Caivu

By Jenn St-Onge:

IMG_20180825_010802.jpg

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## Powertool

> If you're going to blame someone for bringing back that building (for whatever reason), at least blame the right person. That building's been back since the very start of Rebirth, in 'Tec, so it's Tynion's "fault".
> 
> And Bennett understands much more about Kate than just the superficial. That's why this run worked so well, because she understands the sorts of things that would throw Kate off. And if a character's growth is so important, and it is, then their accoutrements returning shouldn't necessarily matter so much if their character stays true, and that's the case with Kate.


Criticizing Tynion's work is so easy that it's more or less impossible to take any satisfaction from it. And I luckily removed almost everything I read on the pages of Detective Comics as soon as I stopped buying it, so I genuinely didn't remember that detail. But the matter stands that this doesn't invalidate my point since it's an issue that doesn't involve a single writer in the industry (I wish it was only one writer!) and given that it was Bennett who wrote this _Batwoman_ volume, not Tynion, I'm still blaming her. And the editor, of course.

And define "worked so well", please, since I extensively explained why I think it was a continuous 'meh' from issue 1 to issue 18 and I've not been convinced by any of your counter-arguments. It's a shallow understanding because it's a shallow use of the character. Rather than building on what had come before her, Bennett once again resorted to the "a ghost from her past comes back to torment her" plot that was the very same plot of Batwoman's first six-issue arc on _Detective Comics_. Recycling, recycling, recycling...




> Yes, she definitely is, even with the Question portion of her history gone. She's openly gay now, which is part of her and Kate's original argument (that you're wrongly describing as "gratuitously violent") that caused their breakup.
> 
> What are you talking about? If Renee has _ever_ punched Kate, it was in 52 or Five Books of Blood, both of which are not really canon anymore, and neither situation involved alcohol.


Sorry, I misremembered a passage of Rucka's run on _Detective Comics_, but aside from the lack of the hook to Kate's face, Ms. Kane already had issues with alcohol consumption at the time the two got together. She even met Renée because she was stopped while driving over the speed limit with a little too much booze in her body. The whole sequence (life after the Army + meeting Renée + leaving Renée) was clearly framed as Kate seriously letting herself go after she was discharged and the cop's reaction to her sweetheart being slowly consumed by her apathy was a "screw this, I'm outta here". 

And what was the straw that broke the camel's back (which was never shown as being overloaded until that time)? Kate replying to Monotoya's preachment about her lack of purpose by mentioning that at least she was honest with herself and the people surrounding her. And nothing else. Truly the epitome of a relationship with a rock-solid foundation. To me, that would be a perfect starting point to explore Renée's personality as being ill-fitted for long-lasting romantic relationships, as shown by how much she cared for (one would say "loved") Vic Sage in 52, a person she couldn't feel any kind of physical attraction for. To heck with it being declared out of continuity or whatever, since history has shown time and time again that what ultimately matters is if a story is good or not, not what an editor says afterwards. For others (including Bennett and you) it's just a way to take the shallowest approach possible to the situation and merrily announcing "she's out of the closet now! Let's throw a party for this rekindled paragon of true love!".




> Did you have a similar problem when the Williams/Blackman run took exactly the same number of issues to tell their first story? Or that Kate struggling with the "out-of-the-blue" reveal of Beth as Alice took even longer?
> 
> I disagree that this series doesn't have subplots, but I think they're more like A and B plots: one is the fight against the Many Arms, one is Kate's internal struggle.


No, because in both cases the narrative flowed much, much better since the timing of each step in the way to the conclusion was managed in a much wiser way. In Bennett's run the flashbacks were a veritable drag, the variety of situations was restricted to the different geographic locations of the action without anything else feeling actually different and there was no sense of what the story ultimately wanted to accomplish, since what you call A plot and B plot kept obstructing each other in a confused jumble rather than running parallel or suggesting an eventual intersection. 

Handling a double narrative (not main plot + subplots, that's a different system) is something that not everybody can accomplish and Bennett unfortunately fell short.




> Oh, heaven forbid characters not suffer.


In this contrived and completely sterile way? Yes. Heaven forbid.

----------


## Caivu

> But the matter stands that this doesn't invalidate my point since it's an issue that doesn't involve a single writer in the industry (I wish it was only one writer!) and given that it was Bennett who wrote this _Batwoman_ volume, not Tynion, I'm still blaming her. And the editor, of course.


I don't understand why you're still nitpicking this point.




> And define "worked so well", please, since I extensively explained why I think it was a continuous 'meh' from issue 1 to issue 18 and I've not been convinced by any of your counter-arguments. It's a shallow understanding because it's a shallow use of the character. Rather than building on what had come before her, Bennett once again resorted to the "a ghost from her past comes back to torment her" plot that was the very same plot of Batwoman's first six-issue arc on _Detective Comics_. Recycling, recycling, recycling...


It's neither a shallow use nor a shallow understanding. This series threw Kate through the worst set of experiences she's ever been through, and brought her to some of the lowest points she's ever been emotionally, and to do that, Bennett had to understand Kate's character at a deep level, which she did. She not only understood what it would plausibly take to throw Kate off to start with (that is, "bad thing I did coming back into my life by surprise"), she also understood what Kate would struggle with only after being compromised first (falling back into addicton, basically). She took Kate's existing fears and pushed them. It's great.




> For others (including Bennett and you) it's just a way to take the shallowest approach possible to the situation and merrily announcing "she's out of the closet now! Let's throw a party for this rekindled paragon of true love!".


Oh, pssssh. Stop it. That's not what I meant. All I was getting at was that Renee has changed since she and Kate last dated. They've both considerably matured since, and both of the reasons for their breakup argument no longer apply. So it's reasonable to expect that things would work out this time. That doesn't mean there can't be struggles in that relationship or that it's some sort of paragon. Heck, they can use the idea you mentioned here, whatever. But now wasn't the place.




> In Bennett's run the flashbacks were a veritable drag, the variety of situations was restricted to the different geographic locations of the action without anything else feeling actually different and there was no sense of what the story ultimately wanted to accomplish, since what you call A plot and B plot kept obstructing each other in a confused jumble rather than running parallel or suggesting an eventual intersection.


I seriously don't see what's confused or jumbled about it. I had no trouble following it apart from sections where it seemed like confusion was the intent, which is fine. Never had a sense it was directionless.




> In this contrived and completely sterile way? Yes. Heaven forbid.


What is contrived or sterile here?

----------


## Caivu

By Ahnanano on DA:

Power_Girl-Batwoman_by_Ahnanano.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Jeremy Haun:

IMG_20180827_123422.jpg

----------


## Caivu

I finally completed the hi-rezifying of Kate's tattoos. I kept putting off the bluebird but finally just sat down and did it.

IMG_20180827_184218.jpg

IMG_20180827_184213.jpg

IMG_20180827_224248.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Campy Draper:

Screenshot_20180827-020441.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Michael Calero:

20180829_042001.jpg

----------


## Phyre

Art by: http://dimaiv-nov.tumblr.com/
Commissioned by: https://petsupergirl.tumblr.com/

tumblr_messaging_pe6feo1UFn1uf5j7k_1280.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Ooh, I like that suit.

----------


## Caivu

By Jenn St-Onge:

IMG_20180820_234738.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Leo Mitchell:

https://batwomanandmotherpanic.tumbl...ack-as-a-means

----------


## The Whovian

> By Leo Mitchell:
> 
> https://batwomanandmotherpanic.tumbl...ack-as-a-means


That motion image is awesome! Love that!

----------


## Caivu

I recent figured something out.

In Elegy, Gabi wears the patch for the 525th Battlefield Surveillance Brigade:

20180829_233257.jpg

This coupled with the fact that Jacob was a Green Beret almost certainly means that before moving to Brussels, the Kanes lived on Fort Bragg.

----------


## Caivu

By S.K. Kramer:

Screenshot_20180831-112806.jpg

----------


## Caivu

> I realized recently that Kate was wearing some medals as a cadet in Elegy:
> 
> Attachment 67104
> 
> The ones on the left seem to be fictional, but the right ones are all real awards that a West Point cadet could realistically earn.
> 
> From top to bottom: Air Assault Badge, Parachutist Badge, and the National Defense Service Medal.


I found the star one! It's not fictional, it's actually the Superintendent's Award for Excellence. It's awarded to the top 5% of cadets in each class based on their performance in West Point's three program areas: Academic, Military, and Physical.

----------


## Caivu

> I realized recently that Kate was wearing some medals as a cadet in Elegy:
> 
> Attachment 67104
> 
> The ones on the left seem to be fictional, but the right ones are all real awards that a West Point cadet could realistically earn.
> 
> From top to bottom: Air Assault Badge, Parachutist Badge, and the National Defense Service Medal.


And I found the arrowhead one, too! It's the Recondo Badge.

mPVe4snx07LABHNgQykofOg.jpg

Screenshot_20180831-181535.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Paulo Cesar Temblador:

Screenshot_20180830-215441.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Mai Irving:

Screenshot_20180830-215253.jpg

----------


## RedBird

@marcusto
commission

----------


## Caivu

Nice, I was just about to post that one.

----------


## Caivu

By Valentine Barker:

IMG_20180906_153009.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Hibren on DA:

Screenshot_20180907-041639.jpg

----------


## Caivu

I wrote a short fic. Apparently, as of right now, it's the only story on Ao3 to feature Sophie Moore.

Cadet Scrap

----------


## Caivu

By Dani Darko and Trey Mykel:

Screenshot_20180909-085016.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Dan Mora:

d0fe5c66-0860-4c1c-bf18-0bb93db1fb87.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Batwoman stuff is already on DC Universe! Honestly didn't expect that yet.

Screenshot_20180912-215901.jpg

Screenshot_20180912-215749.jpg

However, their encyclopedia entry on her has a fair number of mistakes, like saying she was in the Marines or that Batman saved her in that alley. I've contacted them about fixing those mistakes, as have others.

----------


## Caivu

By @Kaibuzetta on Twitter:

IMG_20180915_181813.jpg

----------


## Caivu

I wrote a new story.

The  Serpent's House

----------


## Caivu

Glad to see Kate in the December solicits... but less excited that she's in RHatO, and that apparently Lobdell didn't get the memo on what her current status is.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Glad to see Kate in the December solicits... but less excited that she's in RHatO, and that apparently Lobdell didn't get the memo on what her current status is.


I'll at least see what happens. Lobdell did a great job with Artemis (but the writer for Wonder Woman walked back a LOT of the character development she had, so its not limited to Lobdell by a long shot of where characters are at).

----------


## Caivu

> I'll at least see what happens. Lobdell did a great job with Artemis (but the writer for Wonder Woman walked back a LOT of the character development she had, so its not limited to Lobdell by a long shot of where characters are at).


The most generous thing I can say about the solicit is that the fault lies with whoever wrote it. Otherwise, there's really no possible way it can line up with everything and make sense.

Plus, I'm not convinced Lobdell has a good understanding of Kate anyway. Her last appearance in RHatO was... eh.

----------


## Caivu

By Fabrizio Dionisio:

Batwoman_by_Bryce22.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By 7tavor7 on DA:

Screenshot_20180918-011214.jpg

BatWoman_Sketch_by_7tavor7.jpg

----------


## The Whovian

> @marcusto
> commission


That is cool!

----------


## Caivu

200 pages! It didn't take as long to get the second hundred as it did the first.

On a different note: I've lately been messing around with making 3D renderings of DC characters. Here are a few of Kate, in the Combatives uniform she would have worn as a cadet, and one of Sophie Moore, also depicted as a Cadet.

543be98d-3ed7-4517-859d-c89d4e9c5483.jpg

IMG_20180918_225514.jpg

----------


## Oberon

Congratulations on Batwoman's Second Hundredth page!

----------


## Pohzee

> 200 pages! It didn't take as long to get the second hundred as it did the first.
> 
> On a different note: I've lately been messing around with making 3D renderings of DC characters. Here are a few of Kate, in the Combatives uniform she would have worn as a cadet, and one of Sophie Moore, also depicted as a Cadet.
> 
> 543be98d-3ed7-4517-859d-c89d4e9c5483.jpg
> 
> IMG_20180918_225514.jpg


That's pretty cool!

----------


## Caivu

Thank you! I really want to develop these more, maybe make some animations eventually.

----------


## Caivu

By Alexander Flores:

e838d1aa-9ed0-43cb-b6ce-df1945164b45.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Sebastian Cheng:

IMG_20180912_012014.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Dean Kotz:

IMG_20180920_174437.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Matthew Clark:

Screenshot_20180920-190422.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Finally finished a long story about Kate and Sophie boxing as cadets. It's violent, bloody, but also hopefully sweet.

Well-Matched

----------


## Caivu

By Dante Aguirre:

Screenshot_20180922-195114.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Carmen Carnero:

Screenshot_20180922-195304.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By the Fraim Brothers:

Screenshot_20180923-165049.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By GoodDogPress on DA:

Screenshot_20180924-221445.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By John Romita, Jr.:

Screenshot_20180925-021154.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By John Grosjean:

8a36483.jpg

----------


## Caivu

First look at the CW's Batsymbol:

Screenshot_20180926-122258.jpg

I was iffy on it at first until I realized it seems to be taking a few cues from the logo on the Sideshow Premium Format figure:

Screenshot_20180926-231652.jpg

There are differences, but a lot of similarities. The outer edges of the wings, the top curve where the ears are, the tail... all are pretty close, so that's a bit encouraging, that another Batwoman thing is probably being used for reference.

----------


## Caivu

By Alex Mays:

Screenshot_20180928-103034.jpg

----------


## MajorHoy

> There's a new Batwoman Imaginext figure on the way (and a bunch of others, too), as seen at their NYCC booth.
> 
> Attachment 55958


Found this on the Imaginext website:*IMAGINEXT® DC SUPER FRIENDS LEGENDS OF BATMAN HEROES & VILLAINS*
Product: FNG92
Here's a better picture from elsewhere:

----------


## Caivu

Oh, neat. That Huntress and Jessica Cruz look good, too.

----------


## MajorHoy

> Oh, neat. That Huntress and Jessica Cruz look good, too.


Katana isn't bad, either (though why a children's toy labeled for ages 3-8 is dressed like the _Suicide Squad_ movie-inspired version is questionable).

I wish Batwoman had more of a pointed-Bat-ears look (maybe it does but isn't visible in that picture). I also don't know if / when the set may have been available (or where from).

----------


## Osiris-Rex

> Katana isn't bad, either (though why a children's toy labeled for ages 3-8 is dressed like the _Suicide Squad_ movie-inspired version is questionable).


Not sure why that would be a problem. She is more modestly dressed than Killer Frost.

----------


## MajorHoy

For the heck of it, . . . 


from *Convergence: The Question #1* (June 2016)
art by Cully Hamner

----------


## Caivu

NYCC week. Probably getting the first look at the CW costume.

----------


## Caivu

This is mostly a Bette fic, but Kate _is_ in it, so... eh:

Fighting for Approval

----------


## Oberon

I read, enjoyed, and responded.  Good job.

----------


## pauloctavio

> *Welcome*
> 
> 
> 
> (I promise Kate isn't shooting at you. Just the bad guys.)
> 
> Here be, the brand new, shiny thread devoted to Kate Kane.
> 
> *Why celebrate Kate Kane?:*  Because she's one of the most prominent LGBTQ members of the DC Universe, and is one of the few things DC did right, post-reboot. Because rather than turn Kate into another vehicle for mass titillation, DC managed to create a compelling character whose struggles were all too real and are something we can all relate to. While some of us might not be able to relate to being kicked out of West Point for our sexual orientation, we can relate to the sense of injustice Kate felt afterwards, and we can also relate to the desire to be true to ourselves, even if we're punished for it in the process.
> ...


I've been a devotee of Marc Andreyko since the beginning of Manhunter. 
I likewise believe Kate's association with Maggie is a standout amongst the most acceptable I have found in a standard comic in years. 
On a last note, she has a standout amongst the most rebel new outfit outlines of the most recent decade.

----------


## Caivu

By Glowwyrm on DA:

Snowy_Gotham_by_Glowwyrm.jpg

----------


## Caivu

I recently learned something incidentally interesting about Ruby Rose that gives her another thing in common with Kate: about six years ago, she was an amateur boxer, just as Kate was at West Point. I don't know if the CDs were considering that, but it's kinda neat, especially with all their other similarities.

----------


## Caivu

I've heard from a source I trust that there's going to be major Batwoman news tomorrow. I'm speculating here, but I think it might be the TV suit.

----------


## Caivu

It was, indeed, the suit.

IMG_20181009_083800.jpg

That looks pretty friggin' great.

----------


## Batman Begins 2005

Liking it. I do like how the cape goes from black to red.

----------


## Oberon

I would like the cape to see/appear more solid.  Sorta see through seems flimsy - but I'm willing to see how it works live.

I still love it.

----------


## Punisher007

Yeah the caps the only kind of iffy thing here.  Not terrible, but it does look kind of flimsy.  But we'll see how it looks in motion.  Also I wish that the boots and gloves were red as well. 

But for the most part, it looks good and surprisingly comic accurate.

----------


## Oberon

Well to be fair it is probably a staged promo type shot.  Not what it may look like "in action".

----------


## Jackalope89

The only thing for me, would be the lack of eye lenses, but that's more a nitpick than anything. But otherwise? Very awesomely done.

----------


## Caivu

> The only thing for me, would be the lack of eye lenses, but that's more a nitpick than anything. But otherwise? Very awesomely done.


Eye lenses would look weird. Comics and animation can get around that because they can have the masks follow expressions. In live action it looks buglike, and eyes are such an expressive part of the face that they shouldn't be hidden unless needed.

----------


## Restingvoice

I'm not liking the cape or the metallic lines, I think the comic costume is simple and doesn't need additional details, but overall it's fine.

...I thought something was weird. I just realized she's wearing a full Batman cowl, the front half of it at least, instead of the comic mask.

----------


## Caivu

> ...I thought something was weird. I just realized she's wearing a full Batman cowl, the front half of it at least, instead of the comic mask.


I hope that's what it is. The one thing I hate about her comic costume is that her mask only covers her face.

----------


## tabo61

Beautiful outfit.

----------


## ss888

The more I look at the suit the less I like it because it doesn't really have any of Batwoman's suit's uniqueness other than some red. The symbol isn't hers and the cowl isn't hers and there's not the red gloves and cape lining and boots that make Kate's suit stand out and awesome and be more unique in my opinion. It's not a bad suit for a TV show but it's just sorta red female Batman and not really Kate's Batwoman suit... not to me at least.

----------


## Osiris-Rex

I heard a lot of complaint about Ruby Rose having short hair and Batwoman has long flowing hair.  I guess none of the complainers have even read a comic book.  Because Kate Kane
does have short hair and the costume has a wig.   So this is really what Kate Kane should look like when she doesn't have the costume on.

----------


## Caivu

> The symbol isn't hers


Well, it not like it's anyone _else's_. It actually looks like it was adapted from the Sideshow Collectible statue, which is where much of the other inspiration came from.




> and the cowl isn't hers


Huh? Looks like it to me. The ears look like they're at the front as they should be.




> and there's not the red gloves and cape lining and boots that make Kate's suit stand out and awesome and be more unique in my opinion.


It's sensible why they toned down the red, though.

----------


## superduperman

Wish there was more red in the gloves and boots but other than that it looks good.

----------


## Caivu

By Kevin Thio:

Screenshot_20181013-010308.jpg

----------


## Caivu

More WIP by Pete Woods:

IMG_20181014_013108.jpg

----------


## Caivu

I mocked up Kate's dog tag:

IMG_20181014_033019.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Marguerite Bennett:

Screenshot_20181014-103724.jpg

----------


## KyCoo

Wonder woman + Batwoman + Awesomeness.

----------


## Caivu

> Wonder woman + Batwoman + Awesomeness.


Yep, and it needs to happen again. They have a standing pact, after all.

----------


## Caivu

By Dylan Macri:

IMG_20181018_132010.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Dayvison Santos:

Screenshot_20181017-231121.jpg

----------


## Shadowcat

Any news on whether we’ll get a new book before her new show airs? Creative teams you’d like to see on it?

----------


## Caivu

> Any news on whether we’ll get a new book before her new show airs? Creative teams you’d like to see on it?


No news. I'd love for Jody Houser to write, and maybe Juan Ferreyra or Claire Roe on art.

----------


## Hypestyle

does Batwoman have her own cave?  Or a warehouse?

----------


## Caivu

> does Batwoman have her own cave?  Or a warehouse?


She actually uses the panic room of her apartment as her HQ. It's really cool.

IMG_20181020_002109.jpg

IMG_20181020_002114.jpg

Screenshot_20181020-003013.jpg

Incidentally, I have a project where I'm recreating it in 3D.

----------


## Twice-named

> Any news on whether we’ll get a new book before her new show airs? Creative teams you’d like to see on it?


I’d love to see Joelle Jones as both writer and artist.

----------


## Caivu

> I’d love to see Joelle Jones as both writer and artist.


Eh... I don't think she's a good fit in either area.

----------


## Twice-named

> Eh... I don't think she's a good fit in either area.


It’s subjective. I didn’t think Blanco was a good fit. In particular, his Alice. Didn’t care for Panosian or the art during Tynion’s Tec run either. Nor Bennett and Tynion’s writing. But plenty of people did. For me, I look at Jones’ beautiful artwork in Catwoman and get excited at the thought of her working her magic on Batwoman.

----------


## Caivu

> It’s subjective. I didn’t think Blanco was a good fit. In particular, his Alice. Didn’t care for Panosian or the art during Tynion’s Tec run either. Nor Bennett and Tynion’s writing. But plenty of people did. For me, I look at Jones’ beautiful artwork in Catwoman and get excited at the thought of her working her magic on Batwoman.


I don't find Jones's writing impressive at all. It's just sorta... there. Tynion and Bennett both understand Kate very well, and that was reflected in how they wrote her. Maybe it's just because I'm not as familiar with Catwoman, but I don't see anything really in-depth about her in her current series.

Jones's art isn't bad at all, but it's so 60s-inspired that it's a wrong fit for Kate. It works for Selina because she's a femme fatale sort of character; Kate isn't. The coloring in the current Catwoman book doesn't do it any favors, though.

----------


## Twice-named

> I don't find Jones's writing impressive at all. It's just sorta... there. Tynion and Bennett both understand Kate very well, and that was reflected in how they wrote her. Maybe it's just because I'm not as familiar with Catwoman, but I don't see anything really in-depth about her in her current series.
> 
> Jones's art isn't bad at all, but it's so 60s-inspired that it's a wrong fit for Kate. It works for Selina because she's a femme fatale sort of character; Kate isn't. The coloring in the current Catwoman book doesn't do it any favors, though.


Jones’ writing hasn’t blown me away with the new Catwoman series but I’m enjoying it. Respectfully disagree about her art not being a fit for Kate. Based on what I’ve seen art wise, I think her Kate would look amazing. But that’s just my opinion. I remember Gotham Spoilers not liking the coloring either. I like it. We’ll never see eye-to-eye on Tynion and Bennett. But that’s ok. All that matters is we agree Kate is the best character hands down.

----------


## Caivu

> Respectfully disagree about her art not being a fit for Kate. Based on what I’ve seen art wise, I think her Kate would look amazing.


No doubt it would. But that doesn't mean it's a correct artistic fit.




> We’ll never see eye-to-eye on Tynion and Bennett.


What specifically don't you like about how they write her?

----------


## Twice-named

> No doubt it would. But that doesn't mean it's a correct artistic fit.


I feel that’s a matter of opinion. 






> What specifically don't you like about how they write her?


I didn’t like the Jacob Kane/Colony plot nor the concept of the lost year.

----------


## Caivu

> I didn’t like the Jacob Kane/Colony plot nor the concept of the lost year.


Neither of those directly have anything to do with Kate herself as a character aside from how she responded to each of them, and both responses were correct.

----------


## Shadowcat

I’d love to see Chelsea Cain take a crack at Batwoman or the BoP.

----------


## Twice-named

> Neither of those directly have anything to do with Kate herself as a character aside from how she responded to each of them, and both responses were correct.


Theyre what I was referring to when I wrote that I didnt care for their writing.

----------


## Twice-named

Kate’s other hobby. 633C3B80-B75B-4B9D-B3AB-77F4720B4716.jpg

----------


## Caivu

I think she actually owns that series as a joke.

----------


## Caivu

By Fernando Gabriel Calvi:

Screenshot_20181021-124119.jpg

----------


## Caivu

First BTS photo of Batwoman:

Screenshot_20181026-183057.jpg

----------


## Oberon

I am trying to have reasonable high hopes for the story and her series to follow.

----------


## Caivu

By astraea-f-blueback on Tumblr:

4e6daf80-4f90-4bd6-9fdd-895088102899.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Screenshot_20181031-150305.jpg
RCO009 (22).jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Fred Grivaud:

fred-grivaud-batwomane02-100.jpg

----------


## Jackalope89

Jason-I got your back aunt Kate.
Kate- I'm not your aunt, I'm your cousin, twice removed or some such.
Jason- Close enough.

----------


## MajorHoy

> I am trying to have reasonable high hopes for the story and her series to follow.


Has a "series to follow" officially been announced yet, or is it just that one is expected?

----------


## Caivu

> Has a "series to follow" officially been announced yet, or is it just that one is expected?


It has an official synopsis.

----------


## MajorHoy

> It has an official synopsis.


Which means . . . what exactly?  :Confused:

----------


## Caivu

> Which means . . . what exactly?


Which means it's officially in development.

----------


## MajorHoy

> Which means it's officially in development.


I thought "in development" was a term used more for possible TV shows and movies prior to a studio making any commitment to it?  :Confused:

----------


## Caivu

> I thought "in development" was a term used more for possible TV shows and movies prior to a studio making any commitment to it?


I don't understand what's confusing about this. Yes, they've committed to it. It technically still has to be ordered to series, but the likelihood of that not happening is very small.

----------


## Caivu

Red Hood: Outlaw #29 variant cover by Yasmine Putri:

IMG_20181106_140341.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Maximilian Walther:

Batwoman_by_bockmanton.jpg

----------


## Caivu

I made a quick mockup of Kate's discharge certificate:

20181111_111644.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Fernando Blanco:

IMG_20181029_111438.jpg

IMG_20181029_111443.jpg

IMG_20181029_111446.jpg

----------


## Caivu

By Marcio Takara:

IMG_20181110_154556.jpg

----------


## Caivu

WIP by @MalbonDesigns on Twitter:

IMG_20181113_143539.jpg

----------


## Oberon

A Friend and associate's daughter, Mairghread Scott now writes Batgirl.  When I catch up with her (saw her a couple of years ago before this gig) I am going to encourage her to help bring back Bette from Oblivion.  Maybe she could feature her in Batgirl, is my obvious hope.  But at least now, I know someone who may be more sympathetic and has PULL!

----------


## Caivu

Along with the expected appearance at the end of today's RHatO, Kate also had a cameo in 'Tec #992.

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## Caivu

New photo and article:

IMG_20181115_111256.jpg

https://ew.com/tv/2018/11/15/ruby-ro...ossover-photo/

Among other things, this confirms Batwoman will debut in the second episode of the crossover (maaaaybe at the very end of the first).

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## Caivu

By Doc Shaner:

as.jpg

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## Caivu

By Amanda Conner:

IMG_20181116_112725.jpg

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## Caivu

First footage!

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## sdc27

Can you post where you found them? Be nice to look at their other items or follow them

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## Oberon

I'm pretty optimistic for this.  Looks not so shabby, as in, I like!

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## Oberon

That way she looks into the camera, close up - - its Kate to me.

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## Oberon

So I'm just skimming the article you sent Caivu, and while it doesn't give too much away, it does seem that they are going to give her the right treatment, which, in my own words, has always been


A complete and realized character.  No matter what happens with the show, Jake, Bette or others being in the cast, or 'situations' (will we know her cousin-hood with Batman, etc)

This is Batwoman, for me at least.

----------


## Caivu

> So I'm just skimming the article you sent Caivu, and while it doesn't give too much away, it does seem that they are going to give her the right treatment, which, in my own words, has always been
> 
> 
> A complete and realized character.  No matter what happens with the show, Jake, Bette or others being in the cast, or 'situations' (will we know her cousin-hood with Batman, etc)
> 
> This is Batwoman, for me at least.


Yeah, almost every description of her in the show sounds correct.

----------


## Caivu

That time again:

60bcf82.jpg

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## MajorHoy

> That time again:


Shouldn't Professor Pyg be laid out on a plate with an apple stuffed into his mouth?

----------


## Caivu

Kate appeared in Injustice 2 Annual #2 this week, where she unfortunately did _not_ get to beat up some Nazis.

68fa9e61-1650-4c95-a121-61913ba5795d.jpg

Lois is greedy.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Caivu

By u/Steel_Gazebo on Reddit, made in Soul Calibur IV:

1d7b905.jpg

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## Caivu

By Ben Oliver:

1bda247.jpg

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## Oberon

With caveats, this is how I would like the Elseworlds crossover on the CW should end, setting up Kate for her own show:

I'm assuming that Elseworlds is a sort of Flashpoint situation for the CW, so at the end, when things are resolved, we end up back in 'real world' ie; Arrow-verse.

Closing scene:  [from behind] Cloaked or hooded women enters a stately mansion.   "Kate, you're back." a young blonde woman says.   "I'll go start lunch" and she walks down the hall.  From a staircase, an older man with red hair stands watching Kate, who now is facing the camera/action.  "Are we ready to begin." says the man.   Kate: "Yes, I'm ready."

The epilogue-ish set up to her series?

----------


## Caivu

By Skribduex on Reddit:

f4210b4.jpg

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## Caivu

New images:

IMG_20181129_152022.jpg

1a4c958.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Hanukkah has begun where I am, so here's a piece by Jeff Moy showing Kate celebrating with Clara Kendall (Tomorrow Woman):

IMG_20181202_162220.jpg

----------


## Oberon

Happy Hanukkah to those who celebrate! I am resuming my Interfaith activities tonight so no doubt will be spoken of too.

----------


## Caivu

By Juan Calle:

IMG_20181204_135257.jpg

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## Caivu

New trailer with more shots, including the first look of Kate as a civilian:

----------


## Caivu

By Matheus Ferreira:

Screenshot_20181205-115734.jpg

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## Caivu

Casting breakdowns for the series:

http://www.thathashtagshow.com/2018/...son-flamebird/

----------


## kilderkin

Found the answer 

Pity it's gone for now

----------


## Caivu

> Found the answer 
> 
> Pity it's gone for now


What was the question?

----------


## kilderkin

> What was the question?


Sorry,  did not realise I deleted it,

I asked if her book was cancelled as I hadn't seen it in a while but was behind on my reading so might have missed it

A pity, she's my favourite character I picked up on since rebirth

----------


## Oberon

Having looked at the breakdown on casting, I am going to get out there and say

The character of Charlotte, who is / seems new for TV, and "important" will be revealed to be a another version/the older/previous Batwoman.  If so probably a season finale/cliffhanger.

----------


## Caivu

> Having looked at the breakdown on casting, I am going to get out there and say
> 
> The character of Charlotte, who is / seems new for TV, and "important" will be revealed to be a another version/the older/previous Batwoman.  If so probably a season finale/cliffhanger.


I don't think Charlotte's an entirely new character. She sounds like Catherine Hamilton-Kane.

----------


## Oberon

True that, though the article implies she is different.  Just my thought that maybe they are combining things, since they seem to have a handle on the other potential characters.  Thus far Catherine has not had a very strong presence or voice in Batwoman's story.   Plus as "Charlotte" she is the possible Bette character's mother, not Kate.  Or did I misread that?

Thus I believe she is a sort of amalgam, with the potential to have a secret of her own, as I mentioned.

But, either way, I'm pretty excited if this does seem to be a correct synopsis of Kate's storyline. 

It will also be very important that Alice/Alexa be portrayed well, not too over the top but enough to convey her surreal and nonchalant view of crime and terror in general.

----------


## Bat-Meal

Batwoman in action.   :Cool: 




Her voice is slightly jarring though, IMHO, sounded off somehow.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Caivu

She's talking with her teeth gritted, sounds like.

----------


## Oberon

looked awesome.  But I couldn't hear the voices, only music

----------


## Caivu

I haven't seen the second episode of Elseworlds yet, but from a glance at Twitter, the reaction to Batwoman seems overwhelmingly positive.

----------


## Bat-Meal

She was great! :Big Grin: 

Good lines too.

----------


## Oberon

I really liked it. Having said that, it took a while to get to the action with her, but was worth it.

I get the strong feeling that with the way it ended, we may not see her in tonight's episode. It almost seemed a sense of closure.

My wife, who does not get these things, felt Batwoman was too flat, but I tried to explain that is her character.  Her final line to Supergirl comes off as sarcastic, perhaps, but still rings true to the character.


I really liked it a lot and hope she does appear in tonight's episode.

----------


## Caivu

> My wife, who does not get these things, felt Batwoman was too flat, but I tried to explain that is her character.


Yeah, a lot of people, even some comic readers, don't seem to grasp that Kate is a deliberately stoic and even-keeled character for the most part. Not a brooding robot, but not stereotypically extroverted, either. And there weren't any scenes in this episode where extreme emotions from her would have been appropriate anyway.

----------


## Jackalope89

All in all, a solid first appearance for Kate. Slightly surprised that Kate herself didn't have red hair, but that's a minor nitpick. Overall, I like it, and hope to see her in part 3 tonight (and hoping that Earths 1 and 38 are merged).

----------


## tabo61

Yep, she was great.

----------


## Osiris-Rex

> All in all, a solid first appearance for Kate. Slightly surprised that Kate herself didn't have red hair, but that's a minor nitpick. Overall, I like it, and hope to see her in part 3 tonight (and hoping that Earths 1 and 38 are merged).


She sets up next year's crossover at the end of Supergirl. That is probably when the merge the Earths, if they are going to ever do it.

----------


## Caivu

By Daniel HDR:

IMG_20181209_011727.jpg

----------


## Bat-Meal

I like how they've adapted this interpretation of the character slightly to better fit with the actor.  Like acknowledging the multiple tattoos and stuff, just seems like a good move, and also keeps the character interesting for long-time comic fans, because she's a vaguely different Kate.  

If she gets her own series, and goes into more crossovers, I wonder how long until the other heroes (besides Supergirl) find out her identity, or if they will.

----------


## Caivu

Interesting note about the tattoos, now that you mention it: they actually gave the character a unique one.

Compare:

Screenshot_20181212-173615.jpg
Screenshot_20181212-173326.jpg

First is RR's actual ink, second is Kate's.

They didn't do this for _every_ tattoo, of course... but the fact that they went to that amount of effort for a detail that most people will miss is pretty neat.

It's even symbolically appropriate, too!

----------


## Bat-Meal

> Interesting note about the tattoos, now that you mention it: they actually gave the character a unique one.
> 
> Compare:
> 
> Screenshot_20181212-173615.jpg
> Screenshot_20181212-173326.jpg
> 
> First is RR's actual ink, second is Kate's.
> 
> ...


Interesting, did you find that out on your own or in an article somewhere?  

It would be a bit _weird_ IMO for Kate to have an Astroboy tattoo though (I just can't picture her reading manga), so swapping it out for a thematically appropriate tree makes sense.

And on the topic of the tattoos, the Supergirl stuff was amusing, but also slightly unsettling.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Caivu

> Interesting, did you find that out on your own or in an article somewhere?


Did it myself. I was curious whether that exact thing had been done.




> It would be a bit _weird_ IMO for Kate to have an Astroboy tattoo though (I just can't picture her reading manga), so swapping it out for a thematically appropriate tree makes sense.


Maybe (at least one of the Kane girls was a fan of Ultraman, so that's not _too_ out-there), but the point is they didn't _have_ to change it. The new tattoo wasn't called attention to specifically, or shown in detail. If they hadn't done anything, no one would likely have noticed. So it's a plus that this level of detail was done for something so minor.

----------


## Bat-Meal

> Did it myself. I was curious whether that exact thing had been done.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe (at least one of the Kane girls was a fan of Ultraman, so that's not _too_ out-there), but the point is they didn't _have_ to change it. The new tattoo wasn't called attention to specifically, or shown in detail. If they hadn't done anything, no one would likely have noticed. So it's a plus that this level of detail was done for something so minor.


Ah, just found this article: https://www.cleo.com.sg/entertain-me...meg-interview/

Interesting, seems to be a thing the actor likes to do to suit her roles.

Good catch by the way, I didn't even look at her tattoos in the Kate Kane scenes.

----------


## Caivu

> Ah, just found this article: https://www.cleo.com.sg/entertain-me...meg-interview/
> 
> Interesting, seems to be a thing the actor likes to do to suit her roles.


Very interesting. So this may have been Rose's own idea. I know that in the area covered up here, she has a couple of explicitly Christian tattoos, which some people were concerned about a Jewish character having. Good on her if she made that call.

----------


## Caivu

By Dedy Ramones:

Screenshot_20181214-225524.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Kate is going to be in Young Justice: Outsiders. At least a bit.

IMG_20181217_152314.jpg

----------


## Bat-Meal

What on earth is Young Justice?  Ah, nevermind, sounds like a kids show, I likely won't watch it.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Caivu

By Andrew Elbendari:

Screenshot_20181217-210417.jpg

----------


## byrd156

> What on earth is Young Justice?  Ah, nevermind, sounds like a kids show, I likely won't watch it.


You're missing out. But you do you.

----------


## saiyan_earthling

> What on earth is Young Justice?  Ah, nevermind, sounds like a kids show, I likely won't watch it.


This could be the same Batwoman you see from Bad Blood, but we can only wait and see.

----------


## Oberon

I never saw many of them and ~not very~ like a kid's show, pretty good stuff.

To me, it was sort of a dangling plot line that Bette Kane was also involved in.  Not sure I cared for the idea (she had a "one-night stand" with Nightwing/Dick) - - although to some degree it was consistent with her character before she came to Batwoman's storyline.

----------


## Caivu

By ScaryKrystal:

IMG_20181220_103026.jpg

----------


## Caivu

52 #33, when it was made official:

AurhLH8.jpg

----------


## Mel Dyer

I saw Ruby Rose 'The Meg', last night. I can't wait for the series on CW.

----------


## Caivu

By Justin Castaneda:

IMG_20181230_105911.jpg

----------


## Twice-named

That time Supergirl put her arm through Kate. 

C3765545-EE48-4AE1-A189-8942129DAEA4.jpg

----------


## Caivu

> That time Supergirl put her arm through Kate. 
> 
> C3765545-EE48-4AE1-A189-8942129DAEA4.jpg


Quite a difference from the current dynamic between them, at least as far as fandom goes. Thankfully this didn't stick.

----------


## Osiris-Rex

> Quite a difference from the current dynamic between them, at least as far as fandom goes. Thankfully this didn't stick.


I almost expected Kara to hug Kate in the CW crossover. Kara loves to hug people on the TV show.

----------


## Caivu

Kate was finally added to an Injustice game; specifically, Injustice 2 Mobile.

Screenshot_20181231-133852.jpg

----------


## Caivu

Kate was also part of some year-end reader's choice type awards on the blog LGBT in Comics: #3 favorite character and #3 favorite kiss (with Renee).

Screenshot_20181231-211023.jpg

Screenshot_20181231-211042.jpg

----------

