# Comics  > Image Comics >  The Walking Dead (With Spoilers)

## Deviancy

If you're new to this thread there are a few important things to keep in mind.

 1. We are very opinionated when it comes to the comic.

2. Many of us do discuss the latest issue on the day it comes out, so this thread does contain spoilers.

 So let's see if we can pick up where we left off.

 We were all discussing the current issue and tossing out our personal theories when it comes to what kind of man Negan is.

 I'm sticking with my belief that he's a tweener, and only was doing what he felt needed to be done to lead and survive.

 Who wants to go next?

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## Madam-Shogun-Assassin

Ok, so the comic has become...interesting.  to say the least.  Let's say the almighty whitey grand savior rick builds a utopia,  how long before government and or military remnants show up to destroy it?

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## Marc Lombardi

> Ok, so the comic has become...interesting.  to say the least.  Let's say the almighty whitey grand savior rick builds a utopia,  how long before government and or military remnants show up to destroy it?


I think the govt./military remnants would have shown up already, especially after the prison. That sort of event would have managed to get some attention and surely Rick & crew would have encountered a battalion of whatever showed up by then.

I think Negan is what's going to end up rearing his ugly head. The fact that Rick left him alive it's what's going to get nasty at some point. And I also think we're going to see a new focus of "the zombies are the bad guys, not the other humans." So expect some more undead-focused storylines in the coming year.

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## Emperor-of-Dragons

Yeah I like Rick but the way kirkman shove his leadership praise down our throat is a little too much. And I don't think it's too late for government remnants to still show up. I'm also fatigued with negan already. I will say this I think it's a bad move to explode/implode yet another community. I think they should move on to something else, something radical but still in tone with the series.

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## BeauL83

From the feel of things issue 127 will be jump on point in a way.

Regarding the military/government infrastructure; I don't think its going to happen, not after all this time.

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## PlumeNoir

Yeah, someone is going to kill Negan. Even with the "whole new society" thing, he had just been too much of a stake (because he's way beyond a thorn). I expect Maggie to be the one to do him him for beating Glen to death, no matter what she says. Or any of the other "minor" characters that has lost someone.

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## GatheringComic

Wow, this is sort of what I was expecting last issue to be and I think that helped make it more shocking. That first image of Rick in the book. Kirkman threw me off guard again. Really excited to see how thing go now. Such a 'full' issue. 

Now back to monthly waits of agony

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## Deviancy

I have to admit I was shocked as well.

I didn't expect him to fast forward things by two years, and I found it odd that Andrea, Rosita, and everyone else looked the same but Rick looked ten years older.  It probably was the buzz cut and the bum leg though.  However, Negan is having chats from behind bars like I thought he would, just not with who I thought he would.  I figured it would be Rick but its Carl instead, and he seems to be rehabilitated.

The latest issue makes me see two paths, one path leads to the comic going down hill fast, the other path leads to the story evolving in an interesting way.

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## Joker

I liked it. This is where I was hoping the comic would go when the A Larger World arc started; to a larger, more developed community. 

Two years is a big time skip, but if it was of relative peace, and a whole lot of farming, I'm okay with skipping it. I'm happier to see the post apocalypse grow into something other than fighting and running and struggling. I'm also sure that after 10 years of writing the book Kirkman needed to mix it up for himself a little. 

I'm curious to see where Magna and her crew go within the framework. (Magna is an old Scandanavian name, I used to know a woman named Magna when I was a kid) their story could be an interesting one. 

I'm sure a lot of people aren't going to enjoy the time skip, but I was okay with it as the ends seem to justify the means, so far.

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## capuga

I was against the idea of a time jump, but I have to admit that I thought this issue was really cool. It wasn't a huge leap but enough of one for us to see some progress in the return to civilization without having to sit through years of it slowly happening. Actually worked well. 

This was more of what I was expecting when they first started talking about the A Larger World arc and I think it is a welcome change of pace to see a little different tone in the story then we've been used to. Only gripe is the same as others - Rick doesn't look like Rick at all (and I didn't realize the samurai at the beginning was Jesus either).

Gonna be hard to go back to once a month issues now.

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## Matt Antony

I think Kirkman made the right decision to timejump. To me things had been getting stale and repetitive for a long while. The Negan arc went on far too long, and the bloke was far too much of a caricature.

Now with their "perfect life" they have way more to protect. And lose. 
Characters can change. And, though I doubt it, I hope something is rotten in the state of Denmark. It all looks a little too perfect.


I think there was one misstep though. As I was nearing the end I'm thinking "this has to finish with a twist" because it had been very straight forward and comfortable. And I figured it ("Negan behind bars talking to a Grimes") out before I ever got to that scene.
What I'm saying is Kirkman's previous-issue decision to have Rick *reveal* that he was going to keep Negan around, behind bars, to watch his New World really *took the shock* out of the ending. If he hadn't tipped his hand on that in the other issue then it would have genuinely took be my surprise, and been way cooler.

It was a nice choice to have a changed Negan - note the lack of swearing. I hope we've lost him as an unreal human being, and gained him as something with some nuance/believability. His situation/role echoes Brian Cox's characters in the ultra-obscure KINGS series, where Cox was the imprisoned former King, and "advisor", to the current King, Ian McShane. I think I'd have preferred the ending with Rick talking to Negan also. It has a little more poetry.

Overall though, I think I see hope for new energy to be injected into the flagging corpse of the franchise.

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## Knight Auditor

Well, I'm definitely very interested in seeing what Kirkman has in store.  A time jump like this offers a lot of little story threads to tug on as the writer can reach 'into the past' as well as move the narrative forward.  With TWD's large cast he could fill several issues with interesting materially simply by showing us brief glimpses into the Kingdom and the Hilltop as well.  Oh, and Negan's old followers.  The main thing is that Kirkman has to be even more daring now.  A time jump is one thing, but he can never really just return to a tight story focusing on the interactions and developments of small, emotional groups.  A larger world demands a larger story.

Oh, and Rick needs to shave immediately.  This is unacceptable.

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## General Nerditry

Wow, 127 was surprisingly good. To echo others, this is more what I was looking for when they first found Alexandria and the Hilltop and before Negan sidetracked everything. I really like this concept and new setting, and I find it really interesting.  I was also strongly against a massive, status-quo-changing time jump, but 2 years of relative peace while they refine what they've been working on really worked very well.  I must agree with others, though... Rick needs to shave!  He looks gaunter, too, probably from not being able to exercise as much.  I like that he has finally, grudgingly, accepted his leadership role.  I also didn't recognize the samurai was supposed to be Jesus.  I'm not sure if that's my fault or Adlard's. :P   

The Negan thing wasn't a huge shock, but what's worse...hipster Carl!  Ughhh!!   :Wink:   I also couldn't help but be reminded of a parallel.  Magna agreeing to give up their weapons while looking at a smiling benevolent Rick welcoming them in was very reminiscent of a suspicious Rick Grimes and his ragtag group weary from surviving out on the road giving a new community a try...but sneaking around to get their weapons.  Very interesting development.  I wonder if there will be some role reversal?  Anyway, I like this issue a whole lot better than the end of the total war arc.

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## GatheringComic

> I was against the idea of a time jump, but I have to admit that I thought this issue was really cool. *It wasn't a huge leap but enough of one for us to see some progress in the return to civilization without having to sit through years of it slowly happening. Actually worked well.* 
> 
> This was more of what I was expecting when they first started talking about the A Larger World arc and I think it is a welcome change of pace to see a little different tone in the story then we've been used to. Only gripe is the same as others - Rick doesn't look like Rick at all (and I didn't realize the samurai at the beginning was Jesus either).
> 
> Gonna be hard to go back to once a month issues now.


That's what I liked. The jump was used effectively for what would have been a pretty boring chunk of time to read about**: the rebuilding, peace and a new society forming. The same beats are covere but we're thrust right into it

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## GatheringComic

> Wow, 127 was surprisingly good. To echo others, this is more what I was looking for when they first found Alexandria and the Hilltop and before Negan sidetracked everything. I really like this concept and new setting, and I find it really interesting.  I was also strongly against a massive, status-quo-changing time jump, but 2 years of relative peace while they refine what they've been working on really worked very well.  I must agree with others, though... Rick needs to shave!  He looks gaunter, too, probably from not being able to exercise as much.  I like that he has finally, grudgingly, accepted his leadership role.  I also didn't recognize the samurai was supposed to be Jesus.  I'm not sure if that's my fault or Adlard's. :P   
> 
> The Negan thing wasn't a huge shock, but what's worse...hipster Carl!  Ughhh!!    I also couldn't help but be reminded of a parallel.  *Magna agreeing to give up their weapons while looking at a smiling benevolent Rick welcoming them in was very reminiscent of a suspicious Rick Grimes and his ragtag group weary from surviving out on the road giving a new community a try...but sneaking around to get their weapons.  Very interesting development.  I wonder if there will be some role reversal?*  Anyway, I like this issue a whole lot better than the end of the total war arc.


Very good point.

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## Judge Dredd

Really like the time jump and actually allowing the world to grow a little. It is good to see that they are working to move the zombie herds away from the towns they have setup. I am surprised they are not killing them in some way or burning them, at this point just about everyone should be great about killing them and would be good if they start downsizing some of those gigantic herds. I am glad Kirkman ended the last arc the way he did, he kills fan favorites a little bit to often when he is trying to have something major happen good to see he did not do that again. Also hopefully this breaks the cycle of find a place things go bad hit the road and then repeat over and over.

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## General Nerditry

I wonder how they would take down herds, though.  It's such a massive number that I don't know how they would kill them en mass.

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## Judge Dredd

> I wonder how they would take down herds, though.  It's such a massive number that I don't know how they would kill them en mass.


Yeah it is a tricky one cause if you had a spike pit you could only get some of them until the pit over flowed. The only way I can think of kill them in mass would be to lead them into a wooded area load it up with a gasoline and set it a blaze and drive them towards the fire or light it after they are in the area.

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## Joker

Then you have a mobile forest fire on your hands. As if a forest fire needs help spreading.

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## Judge Dredd

> Then you have a mobile forest fire on your hands. As if a forest fire needs help spreading.


Well depending how far away they go from home with these herds it would not be an issue eventually it will burn it self out. If they are only like a mile from home then yes it would be a terrible idea but if you can get the herds a long way away before they even get close to the new towns they would not have to worry about it. But if we are going to worry about realistic things like a forest fire spreading most of the zombies would be made immobile by now. They have been in the sun slowly rotting and decaying this would eventually make the dead bodies break down. During the winter they would probably also be effected by the large amounts of snow that comes down, you can easily get a couple feet of snow in a week or two and without clean up they would be buried in snow and ice.

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## joshuastar

> Well depending how far away they go from home with these herds it would not be an issue eventually it will burn it self out. If they are only like a mile from home then yes it would be a terrible idea but if you can get the herds a long way away before they even get close to the new towns they would not have to worry about it. But if we are going to worry about realistic things like a forest fire spreading most of the zombies would be made immobile by now. They have been in the sun slowly rotting and decaying this would eventually make the dead bodies break down. During the winter they would probably also be effected by the large amounts of snow that comes down, you can easily get a couple feet of snow in a week or two and without clean up they would be buried in snow and ice.


I think it's been said in Hacks that whatever makes the dead come back also slows down the decomposition process.

I know it's mixing things but fire doesn't seem to do a good job. I know in the show we've seen some crispy dead walking around. haven't we seen a couple crispy walkers in the book? 

I like the question, though: how would you thin a herd, so to speak?

practically, it might be easier to work on disabling them first and then work through the crowd finishing them off. 
but my first thought was to use head-level piano wire. 

actually, I just want to see someone kill a zombie with piano wire in general. slice right through the mushy head.

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## Judge Dredd

> I think it's been said in Hacks that whatever makes the dead come back also slows down the decomposition process.
> 
> I know it's mixing things but fire doesn't seem to do a good job. I know in the show we've seen some crispy dead walking around. haven't we seen a couple crispy walkers in the book? 
> 
> I like the question, though: how would you thin a herd, so to speak?
> 
> practically, it might be easier to work on disabling them first and then work through the crowd finishing them off. 
> but my first thought was to use head-level piano wire. 
> 
> actually, I just want to see someone kill a zombie with piano wire in general. slice right through the mushy head.


I have not watched the show so I do not know about that and I think early on maybe during the helicopter crash we saw some burned zombies. I do not remember that in the hacks but it has been a long time since I have read the early monthly issues again. I would like a piano wire kill of the zombie also, redirecting is a good idea I would think you would want to thin those things out as much as you can. My first thought was mad max style cars with spikes but they do not have the gas supply to waste like that and fire was the second idea but more I think of it does have a lot of issues because it would have to get hot enough to melt the skull and brain and even if they are soft it would still take a good amount of heat.

 I suppose thinning out the herds would take to much man power and resources that are better used elsewhere such as building new houses or buildings as brought up in the issue needing the man power for that. I do like that they are bringing the book in the new direction, I remember Kirkman talking about wanting to get to a point that they are rebuilding society nice to see him actually make it to that point.

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## Deviancy

> Big fan of the time jump, like a few others I was getting a bit bored with the series. The Negan storyline did seem to go on forever and it all felt a bit stale.


The only thing I don't like about it at the moment is that right now, Rick seems to be Douglas II.  But well, it's really too soon to assume he'll remain totally useless physically in the series, he could still recover a bit more and become a bit more alpha like again.  As for the time jump itself, the second season of the game basically has done a two year time jump.  At the very start it is obvious at least 6 months had passed by, and then after Omid dies, they jump 16 months into the future. And while there's still two more episodes, I have a hunch they'll do another 6-12 month time jump.  They kind of had to do the time jump thing though since Clementine is the new lead, and having an 11 year old surviving everything she has to survive would have been harder to buy into than someone who is 13 or 14.

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## JaggedFel

Man I needed name tags under characters, could not recognize anyone at all.

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## General Nerditry

Hey guys, this thread is about the comic.  Can we please not spoil other mediums?  I'm behind on the game, and I get that it's been out for a while, but when I come to this thread I'm expecting spoilers about the comic, but not the show or game.  Maybe spoiler tags for non-comic stuff?  Pretty please?  Courtesy and kindness and new CBR with a cherry on top?     :Embarrassment: 

I also think the parallels between Rick and Douglas were completely intentional.  It's a nice way for Kirkman to call back to when Rick's group first arrived and show how things have flipped around.  It's a nice sort of symmetry.  I'm sure Rick won't be a spayed dog for long.  The is TWD.  Something's going to go wrong.

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## first_citizenx

Did anyone else notice that Michonne wasn't seen anywhere in the issue? You don't think we'll find out that she was killed off during the two missing years, do you?

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## General Nerditry

Kirkman may be a little stretched thin, but he's not that big an idiot.

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## Judge Dredd

> Did anyone else notice that Michonne wasn't seen anywhere in the issue? You don't think we'll find out that she was killed off during the two missing years, do you?


She is with Ezekiel at the Kingdom now and not in Alexandria I am sure when we see the Kingdom again we will see her, same with when they go back to the Hilltop Maggie will be shown.

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## first_citizenx

> She is with Ezekiel at the Kingdom now and not in Alexandria I am sure when we see the Kingdom again we will see her, same with when they go back to the Hilltop Maggie will be shown.


Ah, yes! Good thinking.

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## Deviancy

Rick and Michonne talked about where she'd go in the last issue, she seemed uncertain but Rick seemed pretty certain she'd go back with Ezikel.  For the best really, we have Jesus now kicking ass for the Rick.  And Jesus is more of an ass kicker, the man doesn't even need a sword, he has a far better personality and likes to talk to people, and he can be quite logical.  Right now I'm actually reminded of King Arthur and his knights, and Jesus seems a lot like Lancelot.  Of course Lancelot in some King Arthur stories ends up sleeping with Arthur's woman, so lets hope Jesus doesn't nail Andrea.  And now we have Magna in the book, and she doesn't seem to be involved with any of the men in her group, so will she end up causing some friction? 

I wouldn't be surprised if Michonne is pregnant or has a child when we see her in the comic again.

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## AZBarbarian

What I think is most interesting is that Rick and his crew is on the other side of the fence now. They are the established community taking the guns away from the crew coming in from the outside. I expect to see a lot of parallels to Woodbury, but from a different perspective.

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## Deviancy

Rick and his crew have been on the other side of the fence since they first got to Alexandria.  Remember when those thugs pretty much demanded to enter, and Rick was like, "it isn't going to happen" because they went the wrong way about it, which of course lead to the big shoot out?  For awhile I thought it was going to turn out that they were part of Negan's gang but I guess they were just stragglers.  And to be real, even though Rick wasn't as crippled as he is now, ever since they got to Alexandria he hasn't really done a lot on the outside other than to visit the other leaders, and to confront Negan.  In short, I've realized that the wobbly Rick really isn't that big of a change since other than the war with Negan, he hasn't been that active in a long time.  However, the buzz cut still has to go, buzzcuts make people look like squares.

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## Mantis Girl 94

I am sure that at least ONE person can figure out how to work some heavy machinery!  

build trenches of course

Once all the walkers in a big herd are buried in a deep deep trench I would thin them out the old fashion way.... Sharp stick to the brain.  I would have crews that do nothing but shove a sharp pole down into their brains.


BTW, I love this comic.  I am a Marvel reader but also buy some DC.  This is the ONLY ONLY ONLY comic that don't disappoint month to month...the rest of you comic writers need to take a hint  :Big Grin:

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## Sacred Knight

Really cool to see a time skip.  Was definitely the right move, along with keeping Negan alive.  He didn't seem to have much on the Governor before, but now with this, there's much more of an interest there in his evolution these past two years and if he's changed for the better, or maybe even for the worse.

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## joshuastar

> I am sure that at least ONE person can figure out how to work some heavy machinery!  
> 
> build trenches of course
> 
> Once all the walkers in a big herd are buried in a deep deep trench I would thin them out the old fashion way.... Sharp stick to the brain.  I would have crews that do nothing but shove a sharp pole down into their brains.
> 
> 
> BTW, I love this comic.  I am a Marvel reader but also buy some DC.  This is the ONLY ONLY ONLY comic that don't disappoint month to month...the rest of you comic writers need to take a hint



yeah, I'm feeling the trench idea. it's a one-time-use thing (just cover it up and mark it as a mass grave, right?) but quantity, not quality.

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## The Big Texan

> What I think is most interesting is that Rick and his crew is on the other side of the fence now. They are the established community taking the guns away from the crew coming in from the outside. I expect to see a lot of parallels to Woodbury, but from a different perspective.


Rick can't not be in charge, which is why he destabilizes the status quo everywhere he goes.  Now that Rick is finally the unquestioned leader, what happens when someone else enters the scene who also can't not be in charge?

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## Sprite

Is the time skip a good jumping on point? I'm way behind on the book, but I don't mind skipping ahead.

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## Sacred Knight

I'd say its a fine jumping on point, yeah.

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## capuga

> Is the time skip a good jumping on point? I'm way behind on the book, but I don't mind skipping ahead.


Yes, probably the best jumping on point the book has had in a long time.

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## General Nerditry

It's arguably the only jumping on point Kirkman has really done.  With the time shift, both new and old readers are waiting to find out what's going on.

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## Deviancy

It is a pretty good jumping on point.

Some new readers may wonder why the dude from Motorhead is behind bars but I'm sure it'll be re-explained as to why he's there in the near future.

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## Azrael

I'd say yes. All Out War was so boring... you really don't need to read that.

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## The Fn Man

I actually enjoyed All Out War (minority) but also enjoyed the time jump. I am actually nervous in the since that whenever something is going well, we always get the big swing in the other direction. Plus now our next Big Bad has to be worse than Neagan + The Govenor combined. Love the book cant wait for next week!!!

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## wild_child2

I don't know why Carl thinks he can fight zombies as a team member. He's to short 4"5 to be respected by his teamates. He's not tall enough to carry his teammates if they fall and injury themselves.

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## wrkngclasshero

How much time do we think has elapsed since the Rick initally woke up in the hospital?

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## capuga

> How much time do we think has elapsed since the Rick initally woke up in the hospital?


My guess is about 4 years. I thought it was about 2 years through the end of All Out War and then the 2 year time jump.

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## wrkngclasshero

> My guess is about 4 years. I thought it was about 2 years through the end of All Out War and then the 2 year time jump.


I wonder if Kirkman plans on revisiting that 2 year time period we just jumped, more than just in passing conversations I mean.  I have to say I am pretty psyched to see where the story is heading, it's clearly shifting away from it's initial tone but that's not a bad thing.  Probably necessary to keep it fresh after 10 years of publishing.

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## Joker

Apparently, from the letters, it isn't exactly a 2 year time jump. It was supposed to just be unspecified.

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## Deviancy

> Apparently, from the letters, it isn't exactly a 2 year time jump. It was supposed to just be unspecified.


Is that what he's saying in the letters page in issue #128?  I haven't read the letters yet.

If he is saying that.. then well.. I'm calling him out on this..

44444.jpg

So what's the deal, did a year pass somewhere between page 24 and 36 in issue #127?

Ok, I'm being a little harsh but other than Negan and Carl's dialogue, and that Negan appears to be showing some remorse or regret, things are pretty dull right now.

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## Quest Mar-Vell



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## GatheringComic

Rick especially looks like he's been aged more than two years. I'm not gonna worry about it, but he seems a bit older in relation to everyone else.

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## Deviancy

The buzz cut, the horrible beard, and walking on a cane plays into why he looks older than the others, I mean that's how I'm seeing it.  Andrea still looks exactly the same, and the same goes with Rosita, Eugne, and well, we haven't seen Michonne yet.

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## capuga

> The buzz cut, the horrible beard, and walking on a cane plays into why he looks older than the others, I mean that's how I'm seeing it.  Andrea still looks exactly the same, and the same goes with Rosita, *Eugne*, and well, we haven't seen Michonne yet.


I thought Eugene looked a little thinner. But, agreed, everyone of the adults but Rick looked mostly the same (which you would expect them not to visibly age as much as a kid like Carl).

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## Deviancy

I have a hunch the new chick will be the new tough chick.. if she survives.

You know what would be bad ass?

When Magna earns her weapons back, the issue where she gets them back, the cover can be of her with all her weapons and the text on the cover would say...

"Welcome to Team Grimes, Magna.. Hope you survive the Experience".

Kirkman and Adlard would never do it but if they did, which they won't, I think it would be bad ass and be paying homage to the X-Men, back when the X-Men was a good comic.

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## AZBarbarian

So, the new folks wre looking for a dirty little secret. Just happens to be one hidden down in a cell!

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## wild_child2

The time passed has been two years. Carl states that a boy working under Eugene is ten years old, only a year older than him. Carl was about nine years old before the time-skip.

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## wild_child2

I think Manga's group is pretty stupid. They're not trusting Rick's group because of if something too good to be true, it probably is.  :Confused:  Manga's group is probably going to snoop around find Negan. Negan is going to lie to them so he can get free. Conflict assures between the group. What happens beyond the comic is pretty obvious. The story continue with Rick finding a conflict either within the group or an opposing group. Rick will mostly end up winning with maybe a few characters dying here and there.

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## joshuastar

> I think Manga's group is pretty stupid. They're not trusting Rick's group because of if something too good to be true, it probably is.  Manga's group is probably going to snoop around find Negan. Negan is going to lie to them so he can get free. Conflict assures between the group. What happens beyond the comic is pretty obvious. The story continue with Rick finding a conflict either within the group or an opposing group. Rick will mostly end up winning with maybe a few characters dying here and there.



YOU WIN!

My guess though, is that Magna and co. won't be as rash as to let him out. Rock was upfront with her about him being dangerous. Lots of misdirection here lately. 

I think the Neegan discovery will lead to more tension between our crew and the new crew. 

Really interested in seeing more of the two travelers (we don't know them, right?)

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## Joker

> The time passed has been two years. Carl states that a boy working under Eugene is ten years old, only a year older than him. Carl was about nine years old before the time-skip.


Did you even read what you wrote? That's some pretty awful math.

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## General Nerditry

Wow, what a great issue.  It's a whole different kind of tension.  I am completely sold on the new direction.  I am thinking the new crew won't be dumb enough to buy into Negan's rantings because it would be too obvious, and I mean, he's a prisoner.  Of course he's going to say anything he can to try and get out.  Also, didn't Kirkman pretty plainly say the time jump was indeterminate in length despite what the editor posted?  I think 2-3 years seems a reasonable time.  

Also, not sure if it's Charlie's drawing or if Negan does nothing but workout in his cell, but he seems pretty buff for a dude who presumably doesn't go anywhere.

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## Zartan's Brother

I actually liked All Out War (since I read most of it in trade, it didn't feel as drawn out), but the new direction is fantastic. It's still a zombie survival story, but we're seeing the post-apocalyptic world growing and developing along with the characters now, which is great. We didn't need another stretch of Rick % Co. on the run or finding a new community. Having them BE the community now? Very nice.

It was nice to see how so many of the mains from pre-127 are doing, although Carl's got a terrible fashion sense. Hopefully Magna and her group stick around, because I really like her as a second generation Rick.

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## Deviancy

> I actually liked All Out War (since I read most of it in trade, it didn't feel as drawn out


I picked up the trade containing the first 6 parts of "All Out War" a month or two back, and you're right, in trade format it didn't feel as drawn out.  The trade with the second half recently came out, so I'll order it sooner or later.  

As for the current story line, while Magna may have potential, right now I find her to be rather one dimensional.  To be fair, Abraham just came off as a GI Joe like character at first and got interesting, and Andrea got a lot more interesting as time went on.  There have only been a few characters have won me over right away and those characters would be Rick, Tyreese, Phillip, Negan, and Michonne.  But to be fair, Michonne only won me over at first because she came off creepy at first so I was really curious to see where things were going to go with her.  Sadly, after the war with Woodsbury, she got a little bleh.  The show version of Michonne however seems to have a bit more depth.

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## Joker

Well that was interesting. I'm pretty sure we're getting trolled, though.

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## ysemaj

> Well that was interesting. I'm pretty sure we're getting trolled, though.


I HOPE to God that we are getting trolled. Talking Walkers would be the worst thing....

----------


## Joker

It's a cliffhanger. How often do those pan out? I just can't see Kirkman doing that.

----------


## Spork

It's probably not going to be true, but I kind of wish it was. It could be awful if not handled well, but it think it could be an interesting way to go if it was well written. It could lead to a situation like the end of I Am Legend (the book)

----------


## Deviancy

It better not be true.

It worked in Return of the Living Dead because it was a comedy but in serious zombie horror flicks, those flicks deservedly went direct to video because they were crap.

What I'd like to see is the guy get diagnosed with some form of mental illness which caused him to imagine what he thought he heard.  In short, I'm saying it would be very progressive if the Walking Dead tackled mental health directly since it is a very, very big issue in the US right now.  There are almost as many, if not more suicides, usually due to mental health now than traffic fatalities, and one in ten Americans is on some type of anti depressant, so imagine how bad mental illness would be in the world of TWD.  It would open the door to some new serious issue for the world of Grimes' to have to deal with.  Yes, Kirkman has touched on mental illness but in a very simplistic way, I'm saying he should borrow a page from the novels and really dig in like they dug into Brian/Phillip's psyche.  But he had that other guy co-writing with him so it could have been the other guy who had more insight on mental health.

----------


## Zartan's Brother

I thought the implication on the page was that both Ken and Marco heard the voices, right? If the zombies are going to start talking, then I imagine a number of zombie "purists" are going to jump ship since it's not a usual part of zombie lore. Personally, I just hope it's handled well, whatever it is.

Also, no comments on Magna vs. Negan? She schooled him pretty hard, but to be fair he wasn't lying very convincingly.

----------


## Deviancy

It was implied they both heard the voices but for all we know, the one who made it back imagined they both heard the voices.  For all we know, this man went fruit loops and not only imagined he heard them talk but killed the other man.  I mean it would make sense that both men would be suffering from post traumatic stress, since they ended up in a very, very bad spot which would cause the brain to go haywire.  But I'm being optimistic and thinking Kirkman isn't stupid enough to do the talking thing.  It's just to late in the series for such a thing, I mean why would they start talking after all this time but never before?  And besides, the ones that would be the most talkative would be the ones who just turned, and they've been around numerous people who turned before their eyes and they didn't say a word.  

Rick still needs to grow his hair back and shave the beard, he needs to look like a leader, not a sloth.  Plus, his reasoning was stupid since it was proven years ago that celebrities can shave their head and change their look but still get spotted.  But I guess Rick never bothered to watch TMZ before the outbreak.  :Wink:

----------


## Scott M Davis

> I thought the implication on the page was that both Ken and Marco heard the voices, right? If the zombies are going to start talking, then I imagine a number of zombie "purists" are going to jump ship since it's not a usual part of zombie lore.


I am a zombie purist, and I am all for this, as TWD is not a traditional zombie title. But I think it will be more along the lines of Ken and Marco not hearing the walkers talking, but understanding their grunts and moans. 

Spend enough time engulfed in another culture, you will eventually start to understand it.

----------


## capuga

Glad Magna saw through Negan's act. Makes me more interested to learn more about her and her group.

No interest in talking zombies, I hope there is another explanation.

Enjoyed seeing Maggie's group, hopefully we'll see the other communities soon as well.

Quick, but enjoyable, read.

----------


## Sacred Knight

Fake-out cliffhangers are kinda irritating, but I like Magna so would've hated seeing her be stupid and buy into Negan's claims and free him or something so early into her tenure. 

The voices are probably going to turn out to be someone(s) herding this particular horde.  More protagonists or new antagonists.

----------


## FishboneX

> I am a zombie purist, and I am all for this, as TWD is not a traditional zombie title. But I think it will be more along the lines of Ken and Marco not hearing the walkers talking, but understanding their grunts and moans.


I am also a long-time Romero Zombie purist, hell, I had to ask my LCS to special order the first issue of this book because he had not planned on carrying it.  I am actually fine with the Dead talking, a separate evolved/non-devolved version of the the walkers. Kirkman has always hinted for years now, that there was more to the zombie herds and the zombies that just didn't seem active at all, just laying around. Maybe this is an exploration into that. It's different, but different isnt bad if done well. And Kirkman is the best Romero-verse zombie writer ever, so I am willing to let him do what he wants. Hell, even Romero had zombies evolving/non-devolved since his Day of the Dead wen Bub remembered pieces of his past and carried feelings for the Docs who took care of him and hatred for the soldiers.





> Fake-out cliffhangers are kinda irritating, but I like Magna so would've hated seeing her be stupid and buy into Negan's claims and free him or something so early into her tenure. 
> 
> The voices are probably going to turn out to be someone(s) herding this particular horde.  More protagonists or new antagonists.


I don't like Magna at all yet, too distrusting for a group of people accepted into a community like this after being alone outside for so long. She can just leave if she distrusts them so much.  But I was glad they showed her to be smart enough to read right through Negans story. Also, how great was Negans dejected reaction when he was left alone again?

Love this issue.

----------


## joshuastar

excited to see where this goes. also interesting to see Rick being treated like Tyler Durden. 

also, some folks don't seem to know what actual trolling is. something that makes you go "hmmm..." or "wait, that's not right!" is not a troll. it's called a twist. to troll is to bait someone with stupidity and/or misinformation for no other reason than to be a jerk. 

examples:
"she's my sister????" = twist
"TV Andrea is a way better character than the comic Andrea" = obvious troll. 

the whispers, whether they're real or not, are definitely not just for kicks.


the whispers.  


the whiiiissspers...

yeah, it's most likely a walker shepherd or something like that.

----------


## Jack Flag

> excited to see where this goes. also interesting to see Rick being treated like Tyler Durden. 
> 
> also, some folks don't seem to know what actual trolling is. something that makes you go "hmmm..." or "wait, that's not right!" is not a troll. it's called a twist. to troll is to bait someone with stupidity and/or misinformation for no other reason than to be a jerk. 
> 
> examples:
> "she's my sister????" = twist
> "TV Andrea is a way better character than the comic Andrea" = obvious troll. 
> 
> the whispers, whether they're real or not, are definitely not just for kicks.
> ...


I think it is humans who like Michonne figured out a way to move around with zombies - wearing body parts and using that to survive. I don't for once second think the zombies are talking. If they can talk - and they were talking in normal ways not like say Frankenstein's monster (me hungry, see people) which means they have normal human intelligence and could operate a firearm or use tools, etc. 

So, no, I don't think the zombies evolved and can talk now in the comic. The whisperers are for sure to my estimation humans who hide via the Michonne method. The end of the book was not even that freaky to me - so it was kind of a faint and I think a failed one because to a long time reader like myself it seems obvious. I could be wrong, but that's cool.

----------


## Jack Flag

> Fake-out cliffhangers are kinda irritating, but I like Magna so would've hated seeing her be stupid and buy into Negan's claims and free him or something so early into her tenure. 
> 
> The voices are probably going to turn out to be someone(s) herding this particular horde.  More protagonists or new antagonists.


My thinking also. I really don't think a fake cliffhanger works well for a series that is this serious in tone. It kind of feels fake and awkward. And I, like most readers, knew Magna was not going to fall for that because it is so obvious. 

Has anyone commented on Rick going wild beating up that - are they mounted guards or herders or something? - like he is crazy? That is more interesting to me than the Negan fake cliffhanger. But then in  the next book we see Rick arrive at the compound and treated like he is Captain America. 

It would be more interesting to me if people hated on Rick and are afraid of him in a Saddam Hussein kind of way - clearly he now has this propensity for casual violence on his people. Did his kid Carl even flinch seeing dad beat the crap out of a person?

But we are forced to concentrate on someone we just met named Magna and boring predictable Negan.

----------


## Jack Flag

> I am also a long-time Romero Zombie purist, hell, I had to ask my LCS to special order the first issue of this book because he had not planned on carrying it.  I am actually fine with the Dead talking, a separate evolved/non-devolved version of the the walkers. Kirkman has always hinted for years now, that there was more to the zombie herds and the zombies that just didn't seem active at all, just laying around. Maybe this is an exploration into that. It's different, but different isnt bad if done well. And Kirkman is the best Romero-verse zombie writer ever, so I am willing to let him do what he wants. Hell, even Romero had zombies evolving/non-devolved since his Day of the Dead wen Bub remembered pieces of his past and carried feelings for the Docs who took care of him and hatred for the soldiers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't like Magna at all yet, too distrusting for a group of people accepted into a community like this after being alone outside for so long. She can just leave if she distrusts them so much.  But I was glad they showed her to be smart enough to read right through Negans story. Also, how great was Negans dejected reaction when he was left alone again?
> 
> Love this issue.


I don't think the zombies talk. I think it was humans that learned to survive using the Michonne method to camouflage themselves amongst the zombies. 

Kirkman has always stated that his world is based on the Night Of The Living Dead George Romero zombies. I always assumed the zombies becoming less active has to do with them wasting and rotting away. In just a few year - most zombies would just rot away and the meat would fall from their bones. A few cold winters of thaw and freeze cycles would turn flesh into mush. So I always assumed the dead being even less motivated to be zombies was a result of that. 

Of course we could be wrong and zombies get new abilities but I don't think so. I think it is just humans wearing dead body parts or something like that.

----------


## Azrael

> Of course we could be wrong and zombies get new abilities but I don't think so. I think it is just humans wearing dead body parts or something like that.


But if they were people disguised as zombies they wouldn't talk, right? And if they were whispering, the guy wouldn't have listened.

----------


## Joker

No answers to that mystery this issue, but some good development of characters. Still looking forward to jumping into the next arc, even though I've enjoyed this quieter period.

----------


## Ronin705

> I don't think the zombies talk. I think it was humans that learned to survive using the Michonne method to camouflage themselves amongst the zombies. 
> 
> Kirkman has always stated that his world is based on the Night Of The Living Dead George Romero zombies. I always assumed the zombies becoming less active has to do with them wasting and rotting away. In just a few year - most zombies would just rot away and the meat would fall from their bones. A few cold winters of thaw and freeze cycles would turn flesh into mush. So I always assumed the dead being even less motivated to be zombies was a result of that. 
> 
> Of course we could be wrong and zombies get new abilities but I don't think so. I think it is just humans wearing dead body parts or something like that.


didn't Romero make the Zombie movie with the boss Zombie who wasa pumping gas, remebering, and talking? If so, then this twist isn't so far fetched after all..

----------


## Omnipitus

Keep in mind it was raining too. When Rick and Glenn tried that way back, the smell washed off them. However, it could be a "weather-proof" zombie disguise. It should be interesting, either way.

----------


## Deviancy

The whispering zombie thing wasn't really the big story in the latest issue, the two biggest things in the current issue in my opinion, they'd have to be what Rick said about Michonne, which sounds like something not so great happened between her and Rick, and Magna and her pals pulling something that I can't see not having consequences.  But well, Negan could use some roommates.  

As for the talker walkers...  If Jesus is shocked because he hears one talk or scream, then something is up because Jesus is a rock, he isn't the type who'd lose his mind and hear things.

http://dailydead.com/cover-art-walki...omnibus-vol-5/

----------


## General Nerditry

I'm surprised and concerned at the hopefully fake cliffhanger from this issue.  I wonder if Rick's community has security easily accessible to handle this type of thing or how far they will take it.  Andrea's been shit on a lot in the last arc, so the girl deserves a break.

----------


## Scott Taylor

They don't seem to have any kind of police force, do they? Trouble in paradise. Its still within probably six months of the Negan thing, so they are in the late stages of the peaceful aftermath. 

Things I like about where this seems to be going:

-Tables being turned by the new group.
-Sophie being a bad ass!
-Maggie finally moving on from Glenn, maybe.
-Undead whispers.

----------


## General Nerditry

> They don't seem to have any kind of police force, do they? Trouble in paradise. Its still within probably six months of the Negan thing, so they are in the late stages of the peaceful aftermath.


I think it has been more than six months. More like 2 years ish given the letters column flub and how much older Carl seems, among other things.

----------


## Joker

Thought this was a really great issue. Definitely excited for the next couple issues, now.

----------


## Davenex

#132 was an amazing issue! Just to avoid spoiling anything for anyone:




> They finally resolved the cliffhanger from a few issues back with the talking zombies, they are indeed people with zombie masks made from zombies. The lead up to and revelation of this was simply amazing. Especially loved the panel with their initial shock when they though zombies were parrying their attacks with knives, simply epic.


. 
Really interested to see where the story goes from this point onwards.

----------


## Deviancy

When it comes to the latest issue... this sums it up..

"it rubs the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again"

I wasn't shocked by the "big reveal" entirely, I knew someone learned a new trick, I just didn't think he'd go the Buffalo Bill route, but I'm glad he did because it makes perfect sense.  The question is, will they be the next threat?  I can't imagine they have enough people to be a big threat but I do imagine they can play in a role in a regular or two biting it.  Its been awhile since a core character has been killed, I think the last one was Abraham, I'd say it was his woman but she was never really a core character.

----------


## Zartan's Brother

> When it comes to the latest issue... this sums it up..
> 
> "it rubs the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again"
> 
> I wasn't shocked by the "big reveal" entirely, I knew someone learned a new trick, I just didn't think he'd go the Buffalo Bill route, but I'm glad he did because it makes perfect sense.  The question is, will they be the next threat?  I can't imagine they have enough people to be a big threat but I do imagine they can play in a role in a regular or two biting it.  Its been awhile since a core character has been killed, I think the last one was Abraham, I'd say it was his woman but she was never really a core character, she was just his hot pocket.


How about the death in issue 100?  :Wink:

----------


## Deviancy

> How about the death in issue 100?


My bad, I should have said "Its been awhile since a cool character has been killed"...

I like the Glenn in the show but I never cared much for him in the comic.

----------


## Zartan's Brother

> My bad, I should have said "Its been awhile since a cool character has been killed"...
> 
> I like the Glenn in the show but I never cared much for him in the comic.


I'm shocked and horrified. Horrified, I say. Harumph. (Poor Glenn).

The only other deaths that felt important since then were Denise, Eric, and Nicholas, but I have trouble getting attached to characters who debuted starting with Alexandria (excepting Jesus and a couple of others).

----------


## Deviancy

It has been a long time since a relevant character has died in TWD, and now there's these Buffalo Bill guys and the previews make it seem like it is possible something big can happen from this.  But well, I thought All Out War was going to cost Rick a few close friends and it didn't cost him any of his close friends, all we got was a dead tiger, and a lot of dead trivial characters.

----------


## cybrestrike

> It has been a long time since a relevant character has died in TWD, and now there's these Buffalo Bill guys and the previews make it seem like it is possible something big can happen from this.  But well, I thought All Out War was going to cost Rick a few close friends and it didn't cost him any of his close friends, all we got was a dead tiger, and a lot of dead trivial characters.


I liked All Out War. And I'm glad Kirkman didn't go Kyle/Yost by just killing key characters to kill key characters. And out of Rick's close friends, let's face it--he doesn't have a lot of them left. Shane, Tyreese, Abraham, Glenn, and Hershel are all dead. Anyone close to Rick now are basically family or peripheral allies for the most part (he's not gonna spend downing post-apocalyptic moonshine with Eugene, for instance and we haven't seen any Jesus/Rick scenes if I can remember since the time skip). And where's Michonne? She was like his closest friend, and now she's probably at the Kingdom with Ezekiel.

As for the current development, I thought last issue was fantastic. The reveal at the end was perfect written and illustrated, and actually pretty frightening. That's how a cliffhanger is done. Loved the fighting tactics displayed--it was interesting and really made sense from a strategic standpoint. Hope we see that in the TV show eventually. The Walking Dead does 'calm before the storm' just right and this issue demonstrated that with flying colors.

I've already got a few theories about how this could threaten everything that the survivors have built...if it's going the way that I think it is, it's going to get really, really horrible for one or more of the communities.

----------


## Joker

I'm curious to see what Kirkman does with the parallel of Magna's group and when Rick's group entered Alexandria. It seems like he's doing that for a reason, I'm just not sure what that reason is, yet.

----------


## Joker

Well this was a great issue. I'm loving the book right now. I was mildly disappointed in All Out War. Just an overhyped storyline that sort of failed on it's promise. I think I would have liked it more if they hadn't promoted it as some big amazing event bullshit. So yeah, I'm enjoying where the book is now. This arc is off to a nice start.

----------


## Zartan's Brother

Man, the new antagonists are creepy as hell. I'm happy to see that the integration of Magna and her group has been a relatively smooth process so far. I was afraid Kirkman would draw it out too long, but he has thankfully avoided that.

Nice to finally get a mention of Dwight and the Saviors. Still eagerly awaiting word on Michonne and the Kingdom, though.

----------


## Azrael

These new antagonists don't look like a big threat for Alexandria (they only use knives, whereas Negan used guns), but I really like them.

----------


## Scott Taylor

They have guns, obviously, but don't use them when they are running with zombies. The reason would be that they don't want to draw attention to the fact that they are not zombies. You shoot a gun around one of the zombies and its like ringing the dinner bell. 

Really curious what these zombie-skin guys are up to and just how many are out there. It could be pretty rude if they have developed the ability to command and guide entire herds of zombies.

----------


## Jaddari

> These new antagonists don't look like a big threat for Alexandria (they only use knives, whereas Negan used guns), but I really like them.


You have to consider that they can band zombies together and drive them directly towards Alexandria in case an "All out war" situation happened.

However I don't think that this story is going to last too long, we'll see  :Smile:

----------


## AZBarbarian

After this weeks episode of the TV show I think it is clear that Sasha will be the 'replacement' for Andrea. This is based on the how she and Bob were used in the Hunter's storyline. You think the TV show will continue with that and make her Rick's significant other in upcoming seasons?

I am still bummed that the TV show made Andrea so lame.

----------


## Deviancy

I strongly disliked the TV Andrea until I found out My13 was syndicating the show, I then started to watch the old episodes just to see what was edited out, and they do edit out bits and pieces.  And while I was watching the earlier episodes I came to realize the tv Andrea didn't suck, she was just different.  My favorite three Andrea episodes would have to be the episode when she goes to the prison and Carol tells her to go back to kill the Governor (adding the Tom Waits song really put it over), the episode where she and the Governor play cat and mouse, and of course her final episode.  

As for the comic, I've sold almost all of my individual issues and made a decent chunk of change.  Now I need to do away with the trades but trades, well there's no profit to be made there since they go for 10-12 on Walmart.com.  So I'm thinking trading would be the way to go but ever since Todd had the Spawn forum taken down, which had a good trading sub forum, I haven't been able to find a good toy/comic trading forum.  So my question is this, do any of you know of one?  If so.. can you PM me the link?  Some may think anyone who wants the trades already has them but you'd be surprised how many people on the Walking Dead forum are just starting to buy the comics now.  

Oh, and I don't mean this thread.. I mean the actual Walking Dead forum..

http://www.walkingdeadforums.com/forum/

Sadly, there isn't a trading section on that site, I may send the mods a request to add one though.

----------


## Iron Fist

Does anyone know where I can buy the Walking Dead HC Compendiums 1 & 2 for a reasonable price? I can't see them on amazon or ebay or IST =/

----------


## thetrellan

> didn't Romero make the Zombie movie with the boss Zombie who wasa pumping gas, remebering, and talking? If so, then this twist isn't so far fetched after all..


That's an example of a story getting better in retrospect.  The zombies were getting smarter, for sure, but not talking or pumping gas.  Actually the zombie tried to pump gas, which was explained as some trace memory of an oft-repeated action.  In life he was probably a gas station attendant.  

What was really startling was when the first zombie stepped in the water to get to the other side.  It was almost as if he were thinking and realized there was no reason not cross, and all the other zombies followed him.  They were definitely getting smarter.

Yeah, I also wondered if Kirkman was going the Romero route.  Great minds think alike, I guess.  :Wink: 

God knows where Romero was headed with this.  The idea that zombies would somehow get better kind of contradicts everything that went before.  Zombies rise, eat, rot, eat, eat, eat, then presumably rot to a second death.  Although something seems to preserve the brain better than the rest of the body, they should only get worse, not better.

Maybe he had it in mind to end the series.  Because in the next film zombies were trained to eat horses instead of people.

----------


## thetrellan

> After this weeks episode of the TV show I think it is clear that Sasha will be the 'replacement' for Andrea. This is based on the how she and Bob were used in the Hunter's storyline. You think the TV show will continue with that and make her Rick's significant other in upcoming seasons?
> 
> I am still bummed that the TV show made Andrea so lame.


Yeah, she never seemed to take off as a character, but went her own direction time and again, as if she were only a standby member of the group.  And she kept sleeping with lowlifes!

Speaking of the show, i just watched the latest.  SPOILERS - the one about what happened to Beth.  On Talking Dead they considered whether Carol deliberately got caught, but then I think about the look on Daryl's face it now makes sense.  Daryl must have lost Carol and picked up Noah.  I guess we'll find out soon enough. - END SPOILER

----------


## Joker

There is a full thread for the TV show in the TV/Film section.

----------


## thetrellan

> There is a full thread for the TV show in the TV/Film section.


I would have asked, but hey, I'm a guy, and we never ask for directions.  Thanks for the redirect.   :Embarrassment:

----------


## Joker

No worries. Just figure you'll get more conversation there. 

134 was a great issue, I thought. This arc is starting off with a bang. I really love the whisperers.

Not really a spoiler but *spoilers:*
when was the last time we had a full issue with no Rick?
*end of spoilers*

----------


## AwesomeUsername

> No worries. Just figure you'll get more conversation there. 
> 
> 134 was a great issue, I thought. This arc is starting off with a bang. I really love the whisperers.
> 
> Not really a spoiler but *spoilers:*
> when was the last time we had a full issue with no Rick?
> *end of spoilers*



Right after Something To Fear, the issue where Carl hid in the truck and made his way to the Sanctuary, then all the way back to the prison. Those issues from the Governor's point of view.

----------


## Joker

Thanks, I couldn't recall beyond the issue back during the prison arc. 

It seems like they're pulling away from Rick as the lead character. Since the time jump it's made a continual point to show us that Rick isn't at the forefront of any action taking place. Now we're possibly shifting focus to a more ensemble style book.

----------


## justice~!

> Thanks, I couldn't recall beyond the issue back during the prison arc. 
> 
> It seems like they're pulling away from Rick as the lead character. Since the time jump it's made a continual point to show us that Rick isn't at the forefront of any action taking place. Now we're possibly shifting focus to a more ensemble style book.


And probably eventually getting Rick's death, since he will be less of a focal character.

----------


## General Nerditry

So, is anyone still reading this?  MAN, the latest issue was intense.

----------


## Joker

I am. Still enjoying it. It hasn't been super crazy action packed, which is why I don't think anyone's talking about it. 

This was a good issue. Those last two scenes. Power plays. I'm sure Lydia is scamming Carl. I doubt she's legit. That's just not how this book does things. Fuck Gregory. That guy is the worst.

----------


## Ragdoll

Dat eyeball licking.... HNGGGG

----------


## Joker

That was pretty funny. Also, I'm sure there to suggest that something isn't right about The Whisperers.

----------


## Joker

And another issue without Rick. I guess they're testing out how well the book works without Rick. Honestly, I don't even notice his absence until I think back on the issue.

----------


## General Nerditry

Yeah, not action-packed, per se, but still really tense with the plot implications.  I mean, Maggie *spoilers:*
being poisoned...do you think she survives?  I'm hoping Jesus beats Gregory to death and forces Maggie to throw up the poison enough so she lives, but who knows with this book.
*end of spoilers*  I also suspect Lydia is going to betray Carl.  I wonder if Carl's oft-predicted death is coming up soon?  Frankly, I hope not because I'm still burnt out on that kind of tension.  I want to see more world-building, etc.

----------


## Ragdoll

> I also suspect Lydia is going to betray Carl..


I think she plans to, but once Carl realizes Maggie has been taken out, he will have Lydia bring him to the other Whispers, after she convinces him that they aren't crazy and will be able to help reclaim the town. Maybe they'll even play nice for Carl and tell him they will help take out the baddies and save Maggie, but then, when they save the day and find the hole Maggie is stashed in, the head Whisper will kill her and claim themselves as new leader.

----------


## Joker

Could go a lot of ways. I don't think Carl dies any time soon. If anything, Rick dies, and Carl becomes the more central character. That seems the direction they're working toward right now.

----------


## Omega Alpha

Carl dying would be pointless, frankly. On a related note, Lydia being just a con artist would be too. Kirkman can be very good, but he often seems to think good storytelling is make the worst possible thing happen every single time.

----------


## General Nerditry

Eh, I think too many of us are predicting Lydia to be a con artist for it to actually happen. Kirkman has a way of going the unexpected direction, for good or ill.

----------


## bobellis75

Trying to avoid spoilers as I'm behind but wanted to chime in on something. Just finished 133. Really like the whisperers. Probably the creepiest thing kirkman has come up with in a while.

----------


## Shaggy

I read vols 1-6 last summer and have gone through vols 7-17 during the last week. I think the story actually got much better after the prison and right now I can't wait to see where the whole Negan storyline will go. The book can be pretty gripping but I also have issues with it. In my opinion, most of the characters aren't fleshed out enough for the reader to really care about them (Rick and Carl are the most developed followed by Michonne/Andrea and that's pretty much it). For instance, I believe Glenn biting it in #100 was a big deal and if you've been with that character for years as a reader then perhaps it was a big deal. But if you just marathon the series then the lack of characterization becomes more obvious and I must say that I didn't feel much for Glenn. 

Also, Kirkman does not understand subtlety and that's why the characters keep monologuing and explaining what they are currently feeling. And Rick pretty much has a new epiphany and a new speech to go with said epiphany every new arc. 

Hope this didn't come off as too harsh. I do enjoy the book and simply wish that Kirkman had maybe evolved a bit more as a writer during the run.

----------


## Ragdoll

> I read vols 1-6 last summer and have gone through vols 7-17 during the last week. I think the story actually got much better after the prison and right now I can't wait to see where the whole Negan storyline will go. The book can be pretty gripping but I also have issues with it. In my opinion, most of the characters aren't fleshed out enough for the reader to really care about them (Rick and Carl are the most developed followed by Michonne/Andrea and that's pretty much it). For instance, I believe Glenn biting it in #100 was a big deal and if you've been with that character for years as a reader then perhaps it was a big deal. But if you just marathon the series then the lack of characterization becomes more obvious and I must say that I didn't feel much for Glenn. 
> 
> Also, Kirkman does not understand subtlety and that's why the characters keep monologuing and explaining what they are currently feeling. And Rick pretty much has a new epiphany and a new speech to go with said epiphany every new arc. 
> 
> Hope this didn't come off as too harsh. I do enjoy the book and simply wish that Kirkman had maybe evolved a bit more as a writer during the run.


When I binge read the comic last year, I sometimes thought similar sentiments. But now that I have to wait between issues, the tension is 20x higher and I care a lot more about the characters. You don't really start to love the characters while reading, but while spending a whole month after a cliffhanger worried they will be dead when you get the next issue. Waiting month to month makes the comic feel more like you are in the trenches with them.

----------


## Shaggy

So I'm all caught up now and I'm really excited about the timeskip and the new status quo. I guess the main reason I'm excited is because it seems that it's nearly impossible to go back now (tear down the new civilization, have the characters on the run again - this cycle has repeated itself a number of times now). I'm sure there will still be outside threats and infighting but it would take a serious natural disaster to reset everything (and if that happened then I think that would truly be the jump-the-shark moment of the Walking Dead).

----------


## Joker

They don't have to tear it down to put characters back out on the road, though. Exploration, long journeys, those things can happen with a home base still intact. Especially as they seem to be moving away from Rick Grimes as the central character.

----------


## thetrellan

> I read vols 1-6 last summer and have gone through vols 7-17 during the last week. I think the story actually got much better after the prison and right now I can't wait to see where the whole Negan storyline will go. The book can be pretty gripping but I also have issues with it. In my opinion, most of the characters aren't fleshed out enough for the reader to really care about them (Rick and Carl are the most developed followed by Michonne/Andrea and that's pretty much it). For instance, I believe Glenn biting it in #100 was a big deal and if you've been with that character for years as a reader then perhaps it was a big deal. But if you just marathon the series then the lack of characterization becomes more obvious and I must say that I didn't feel much for Glenn. 
> 
> Also, Kirkman does not understand subtlety and that's why the characters keep monologuing and explaining what they are currently feeling. And Rick pretty much has a new epiphany and a new speech to go with said epiphany every new arc. 
> 
> Hope this didn't come off as too harsh. I do enjoy the book and simply wish that Kirkman had maybe evolved a bit more as a writer during the run.


I imagine his dealings with the TV show will ultimately help with this, although you should be aware that comics writing isn't like writing novels or for television.  There are things a comic book can't convey.  Having a fantastic artist capable of conveying such subtleties helps, but sometimes the writer simply must tell you what the character is thinking.  It must have been easier when third person narration wasn't out of vogue. 

A simile would be silent pictures.  When I saw all of the characters dancing around (not literally, but constantly), even the horses, I had to laugh.  But then I realized that the lack of sound meant that more had to be conveyed through body language alone, and it made sense.

I must say, though, for a writer getting complaints about monologuing, his stories sure do read fast.  I have always considered that the mark of a good writer.  Unless the writer simply uses fewer words, that is.  Which Kirkman doesn't.  Ever read Preacher?  Amazing story.  Every issue took ten minutes flat to read, about half my usual time.  Same for Walking Dead.




> They don't have to tear it down to put characters back out on the road, though. Exploration, long journeys, those things can happen with a home base still intact. Especially as they seem to be moving away from Rick Grimes as the central character.


Hey, you think Rick's time is coming up?  Kirkman once said that not even he was safe.

----------


## Joker

Yes. Kirkman's said that he thinks Carl could carry the book, but 'down the road when he's a bit older'. Not an exact quote, but the age was the qualifier. Now Carl's older, and the focus of the main story in these last issues. And Rick's been largely absent. I assume we're being eased into it. 

At the very least, they're testing those waters.

----------


## Joker

Another Rickless issue. Carl taking the lead role in the book going one step further with this arc. I'd love to see more Andrea, though. At the same time, it's nice having the book switch things up a little. 

I like The Whisperers. I like that we still don't really know what role they'll play, but they're definitely not "good guys" in any way this book defines them.

----------


## Ragdoll

Amazing. I went from laughing my ass off at how pathetic Gregory was to bawling at that heavy ending. The issue covered a great spectrum of emotions.

----------


## SSJLuffy

I do love the feeling of these last few issues and how they've been Carl centric. I wonder where they're going with this. Rick dying has always been a thought in the back of my mind, but I don't think I'm ready for that to happen yet. I also hope nothing bad happens to Carl. 

I read somewhere that the next issue is supposed to be a game changer, I wonder what that's supposed to mean. Any ideas?

----------


## Zartan's Brother

> I do love the feeling of these last few issues and how they've been Carl centric. I wonder where they're going with this. Rick dying has always been a thought in the back of my mind, but I don't think I'm ready for that to happen yet. I also hope nothing bad happens to Carl. 
> 
> I read somewhere that the next issue is supposed to be a game changer, I wonder what that's supposed to mean. Any ideas?


Well based on the cover, my guess is: *spoilers:*
(Since the cover is Rick at a port with what looks like a manned boat sailing towards the shore) I wonder if we won't start to find our survivors making contact with folks from other parts of the east coast, or even other countries. At some point, they'll (hopefully) push towards restoring a global community.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Ragdoll

Just read #140.
I think I just experienced what those in the medical community call a panic attack. I'm almost too scared to read #141 when it comes. 
*spoilers:*
I just can't watch Alexandria burn and Negan tear down everything Rick just spent years building. Kirkman, please don't break my heart again.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Joker

Great issue. Last month was a little soap opera-y, but this one really paid off on that set up. That double page spread was fantastic.

----------


## Scott Taylor

Well, they're screwed.

----------


## thetrellan

> Just read #140.
> I think I just experienced what those in the medical community call a panic attack. I'm almost too scared to read #141 when it comes. 
> *spoilers:*
> I just can't watch Alexandria burn and Negan tear down everything Rick just spent years building. Kirkman, please don't break my heart again.
> *end of spoilers*


Come on, you had to know there was only one reason for keeping him around, and this is it.

----------


## Ragdoll

> Come on, you had to know there was only one reason for keeping him around, and this is it.


I really hope he doesn't tear everything down. I hope it is just a test to see if he has earned parole, and if he stays put, he passes. I was thinking that Dwight could've built an explosive ankle bracelet for him or something to enforce some strict parole terms that at least allows him the freedom of house arrest, and then maybe time on the town. 
Sadly, that is probably just wishful thinking. I'm gonna be sad as hell when Negan slaughters that fair or whatever terrible thing he decides to do. If he decides to go full villain, I was thinking he should go for Dwight. They made it clear that Dwight's command of the salt trade is pivotal to people, and that is seems to be getting sparce as is. If he took over an important outpost, he could force Rick to work with him to get his goods. Like how America is only in business with the Middle East because we need oil. Negan becomes a voyeuristic salt baron.

----------


## thetrellan

> I really hope he doesn't tear everything down. I hope it is just a test to see if he has earned parole, and if he stays put, he passes. I was thinking that Dwight could've built an explosive ankle bracelet for him or something to enforce some strict parole terms that at least allows him the freedom of house arrest, and then maybe time on the town. 
> Sadly, that is probably just wishful thinking. I'm gonna be sad as hell when Negan slaughters that fair or whatever terrible thing he decides to do. If he decides to go full villain, I was thinking he should go for Dwight. They made it clear that Dwight's command of the salt trade is pivotal to people, and that is seems to be getting sparce as is. If he took over an important outpost, he could force Rick to work with him to get his goods. Like how America is only in business with the Middle East because we need oil. Negan becomes a voyeuristic salt baron.


He'd be better off just going somewhere no one knows him and building a new empire.  This could be an attempt to get rid of him.  But all things considered, it just looks like a foul up.  And I think that pride and greed will have him causing trouble for our gang in short order.

On the other hand, if it _was_ a test, they would want it to look like a foul up, so maybe it is intentional after all.

----------


## Ragdoll

*spoilers:*
Negan should have run. 
I predict this arc ends with Rick killing him, after realizing Maggie is right.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## GuyOne

The dialogue between Negan and Rick was fantastic. Negan has always been a source of entertainment for me. Have always loved his character. I truly believe he was just a normal dude before the infection and ended up doing what he thought was best for his people to survive.

Now going forward, who knows what'll happen. There are so many possibilities. I have a feeling next issue we'll see something come of Carl leaving with the Whisperers. When everyone gathers for the fair something is going down. Rick finding out about Gregory's fate. Maggie explaining to Rick where Carl went. I just have a hunch Negan will want to help and Rick might just not have a choice but to let Negan help.

----------


## Scott Taylor

Maggie is right when you think about it, and Rick is wrong. The only way you can have justice be fair is by having some kind of court system. And they just aren't set up for that to happen. Hence, dictatorship. Rick is doing everyone a disservice by keeping Negan around for such weak reasons. Maggie knew a threat to the community when she saw it and put it down.

We'll see how committed Rick is to his policy when he learns what has been going down at the Hilltop and about the Whisperers. 

Is it just me or are others hoping that Carl becomes a Whisperer?

----------


## Joker

Feel like there was a great opportunity to silently show the lead up to Gregory's death in alternate panels as Rick gave his speech. Certainly would have added more tension to the end of the issue. Also wouldn't have robbed us of watching Gregory cry and beg for mercy. Glad that piece of shit is dead, though.

----------


## GuyOne

I fully agree that they need a justice system and Rick cannot have the final say in everything that happens. Maggie can't have it either though. But are they really ready to set that up?

The way the issue played out was perfect. We knew Maggie was dead set on killing Gregory. He was a huge piece of shit. We didn't need to see him beg for mercy that had already been done and Maggie already made up her mind. It was a shock though to see him hang. By the end of the issue I was not expecting to see it. Actually since the focus was on Rick the entire time I kinda forgot it was going on.

----------


## ysemaj

The Walking Dead is getting incredibly dull. Kirkman really needs to wrap this up in a few years.

----------


## thetrellan

> The Walking Dead is getting incredibly dull. Kirkman really needs to wrap this up in a few years.


I think this is intentional.  Everyone is civilized now.  Hell, Michonne is in love and can't handle it now that peace is here.  We're headed somewhere still.  Will radio communication be established again?  Can a broadcast channel be set up and electricity be restored?  Events from the show suggest something like that could happen.  And when it does, will nations again go to war?  

I just don't think Kirkman is that close to finished yet.  I suppose it depends whether he agrees with you or not.

----------


## GuyOne

> I think this is intentional.  Everyone is civilized now.  Hell, Michonne is in love and can't handle it now that peace is here.  We're headed somewhere still.  Will radio communication be established again?  Can a broadcast channel be set up and electricity be restored?  Events from the show suggest something like that could happen.  And when it does, will nations again go to war?  
> 
> I just don't think Kirkman is that close to finished yet.  I suppose it depends whether he agrees with you or not.


I firmly believe he has some tricks up his sleeves and we are really setting up for something big. It might be going through a dull spell but I doubt it'll last.

----------


## thetrellan

> I firmly believe he has some tricks up his sleeves and we are really setting up for something big. It might be going through a dull spell but I doubt it'll last.


And we're transitioning from a Rick-centric narrative;  which, I have to admit, is harder to deal with than I would have thought.

----------


## ysemaj

> I think this is intentional.  Everyone is civilized now.  Hell, Michonne is in love and can't handle it now that peace is here.  We're headed somewhere still.  Will radio communication be established again?  Can a broadcast channel be set up and electricity be restored?  Events from the show suggest something like that could happen.  And when it does, will nations again go to war?  
> 
> I just don't think Kirkman is that close to finished yet.  I suppose it depends whether he agrees with you or not.


Ah yes, I hadn't thought about whether he has done it on purpose, makes sense I guess. 

I really do hope it picks up though, it used to be fantastic in places where it was fast paced and had a feeling that all the characters were frantically trying to control events that were conspiring.

----------


## GuyOne

> And we're transitioning from a Rick-centric narrative;  which, I have to admit, is harder to deal with than I would have thought.


I'm slowly preparing myself for the death of Rick. I'm confident it'll happen soon. Like maybe by Negan or some kind of uprising. But the way Kirkman has been leading us on lately I'm starting to doubt it'll be Negan or even a Whisperer but possibly someone entirely different that we least expect.

In a discussion with my gf (who is also a fan) I was predicting issue 200... but that is quite far off and I'm thinking more like 150 now.

----------


## GuyOne

Covers for 145 and Vol 24 was just posted:

http://www.thewalkingdead.com/the-wa...vol-24-covers/

Interesting information:

We have two covers for you this month! Walking Dead 145, which will be the first issue of COMPENDIUM 4 (wow!) and the cover to Volume 24 (which will be comprised of issues 139-144, the final run in COMPENDIUM 3).

The title of 145 "Blood for blood" is interesting and with 150 just around the corner I think we are really in for a treat.

----------


## thetrellan

> I'm slowly preparing myself for the death of Rick. I'm confident it'll happen soon. Like maybe by Negan or some kind of uprising. But the way Kirkman has been leading us on lately I'm starting to doubt it'll be Negan or even a Whisperer but possibly someone entirely different that we least expect.
> 
> In a discussion with my gf (who is also a fan) I was predicting issue 200... but that is quite far off and I'm thinking more like 150 now.


The thing is, when the main character of a long-running show leaves on television, it usually comes before cancellation.  Comics usually aren't that different either.  I'm sure that if Kirkman had merchandisers to answer to, the book would be history.  Fortunately he can do what he wants because it's up to him.  But the signs still make me feel like the series is over.

And that's kind of depressing.  I'll be glad when the pace picks up.

Of course I felt the same way when Larsen took the spotlight away from Dragon.  And I'm finally starting to get used to Malcom now.

----------


## Ragdoll

Rick, Andrea, and Michonne in the wild? I can not wait for these upcoming issues.

----------


## GuyOne

> Rick, Andrea, and Michonne in the wild? I can not wait for these upcoming issues.


144 is supposed to be a huge issue. Those four are heading right into a showdown once Alpha finds out where Rick went.

----------


## Scott Taylor

It was very clever to have Rick, Michonne and Andrea head out to kick ass at the same time as Alpha decided to infiltrate Alexandria to gather more information. There can't be a good end to this scenario.

----------


## Joker

Can we talk about that last page? 

Were those actual zombies, or just a massive group of Whisperers. Wasn't enough detail to tell. Maybe that was intentional? I'm going to assume Whisperers, because if they could control the zombies that well to corral them, would they still dress as the dead? The quiet talking, it seems like they're still afraid of the zombies, not a group able to herd and control them, but maybe the costumes factor into that. 

Either way, that was a hell of a way to end an issue. I can't wait to see where this goes.

----------


## Stevo

> Either way, that was a hell of a way to end an issue. I can't wait to see where this goes.


I assume they are Whisperers too... and it sure was some way to end the issue. Loved it!

----------


## Ragdoll

I am pretty sure they are all zombies. In the Letter Hacks, they called it "by far the largest concentration of walkers we've ever seen". Also, no way they have resources for that many humans. And the Whispers don't seem that uncivilized that they would only allow a privileged few to hang with the community and keep the rest as slaves. The horde is just a zombie equivalent of having a nuclear bomb, especially if you have the know-how to coral and control that many of them.

----------


## Jinjonator

Also, it seems highly unlikely that they'd be able to get such a massive quantity of people on board with the whole "let's all wear the faces of the dead" thing.

Really excited for the next issue now though.

----------


## Joker

I'd have to look back, but I do recall mention of the whisperer community being rather large. I think that's why I felt uncertain about them being zombies or whisperers. There's also the fact that there wasn't enough detail to tell definitely, which was used as the bait and switch upon their introduction. 

I guess we'll find out in two weeks.

----------


## Scott Taylor

For all we know, it could be a combination of walkers and whisperers. The whisperers use the walkers as livestock, basically, to serve as cover or as offensive weapons. They do "herd" the dead, but their purpose isn't to get rid of them, its to use them.

What I don't get is Alpha. She keeps making these big threats, but seems unwilling to really follow through with anything so far. She kind of seems nutty. And I don't mean because she dresses in zombie skins - thats actually kind of normal given the society they are in now. Having trouble understanding what exactly the whisperers are after.

----------


## Turn the Page

It's clearly a giant ass horde of zombies. Even if they could somehow force that many people to get on board with the whole dead skin mask thing, there's no was that many living humans could survive being packed that tightly together for very long. Not to mention feeding them or supplying them with water.

----------


## Joker

A) I don't think anyone is being forced to be a whisperer. After all, they've only asked to be left alone up to this point. They're not on a mission of assimilation. 

B) Why would you assume they live like that? It's simply grouping the troops to show your power. There aren't any fences in that picture. I don't think zombies just stay grouped in one place. In fact, we've seen the opposite in the book.  

Again, I don't see enough detail to discern wether this is a group of zombies, or a group of people wearing zombie skins. I'm eager to find out what it is. I believe it was left vague on purpose.

----------


## Ragdoll

> A) I don't think anyone is being forced to be a whisperer.


I'm pretty sure Carl is being forced to be a Whisper now, and so is that girl he wants to save. Alpha made it clear that if that girl said "I want to go with Carl", it would not be tolerated. She is suffering sexual abuse in the group and explicitly said she did not want to be with them, but has no choice.

----------


## Joker

Good point. I'm not sure Carl is being forced to be a whisperer, though. 

I don't see Rick behaving any better than Alpha in this instance, and Rick isn't forcing anyone to stay in the communities that we've seen. 

Which is to say, both are keeping their children close, and one is clearly the villain because: rape. Which is an unfortunate easy shorthand for villain, and a tired fucking trope I wish Kirkman had avoided. 

I guess my point is that we still don't really know much about The Whisperers or how their group works, but I may be forgetting things.

----------


## Scott Taylor

I don't think you are forgetting things. The Whisperers seem to be intended to be a completely new type of culture for this world, based on some kind of tribal model that has rejected most of the moral code of what we normally think of as human civilization.

----------


## Zartan's Brother

> Which is to say, both are keeping their children close, and one is clearly the villain because: rape. Which is an unfortunate easy shorthand for villain, and a tired fucking trope I wish Kirkman had avoided.


Let's call a spade a spade: none of Kirkman's antagonists in this book have been especially morally complex villains. Shane, Thomas, The Governor, the Hunters, Doc Pete, Negan... I think the two most "gray" antagonists so far have been Dexter and Dwight, and the former bit it pretty quickly.

----------


## ysemaj

So thoughts on BKV and MM doing The Walking Dead on The Private Eye? I for one am fucking excited as hell. TPE was an amazing comic and BKV and MM collaborate and compliment so well.

----------


## Ragdoll

> So thoughts on BKV and MM doing The Walking Dead on The Private Eye? I for one am fucking excited as hell. TPE was an amazing comic and BKV and MM collaborate and compliment so well.


Wow, this is some cool news. This should be fantastic. As long as he doesn't turn Rick gay. When BKV got ahold of Ultimate X-Men, I recall the first thing he did was start having characters come out of the closet. 
I'd almost rather BKV quit writing that terrible Under The Dome TV adaption and start write a TWD TV episode instead. He can make Daryl out of the closet. Kirkman clearly has been building to that anyways, and only publically denies it because too many people started figuring it out before his planned "coming out" point. Kirkman has denied loads of things that wind up happening, it's called "not giving spoilers" and I appreciate him for it.

----------


## Joker

Vaughn quit that show after season 1.

----------


## ysemaj

> Wow, this is some cool news. This should be fantastic. As long as he doesn't turn Rick gay. When BKV got ahold of Ultimate X-Men, I recall the first thing he did was start having characters come out of the closet. 
> I'd almost rather BKV quit writing that terrible Under The Dome TV adaption and start write a TWD TV episode instead. He can make Daryl out of the closet. Kirkman clearly has been building to that anyways, and only publically denies it because too many people started figuring it out before his planned "coming out" point. Kirkman has denied loads of things that wind up happening, it's called "not giving spoilers" and I appreciate him for it.


BKV does like his gay characters. The two tabloid reporters in Saga feels a bit OTT and stereotypical but making his main character of The Private Eye gay could be quite empowering as he never really gave the idea that he was until one crucial scene, and for the most part his sexuality never had a big factor in the story. 

I don't think we have to worry about him fucking with the character profiles. By the sounds of it they'll be writing an original story, rather than one that concerns the the Hilltop etc.

----------


## Ragdoll

I'm beginning to fear Alpha really did kill someone important on the road. Shit, dude. 
0.jpg

----------


## ysemaj

Kirkman blasted the comic out of the water this week, one of the best issues of the run so far. The horizontal divide of the panelling with the head at the top and people talking about them at the bottom was just.... wow.

----------


## Shaggy

I'm a little bit disappointed because now it's back to business as usual.

----------


## Joker

> The horizontal divide of the panelling with the head at the top and people talking about them at the bottom was just.... wow.


Yeah, that was a good one. I like when Kirkman splits narrative like that. He's done it a couple times to great effect. I wish he would do it more. 


Spoilers follow, obviously. 

Some characters that have been around a while, but none that were especially developed characters. Rosita is a rough one, and Ezekiel, but only because they mean something to other characters, than anything to us. Maybe that's different for other people, but that's how I felt. I was wondering if we'd get Andrea or Michonne up there. I thought Andrea, as we'd clearly been trolled into expecting Michonne, with the upcoming covers, and that panel of just dreads in shadow before the page turn. Kirkman is the biggest troll, so I figured at worst it would be Andrea not Michonne who died in this issue. 

I still wonder if Alpha's daughter is playing the long con. I don't know why, I guess it's just always felt off. She's an easy 'victim' to pity, and Alpha's turn in sending her away didn't fit her character up to this point. I'd fallen into trusting her, but this issue made me rethink that. But, unless their protocol upon capture is to pretend to want out so you can learn about your capture, her being a spy would be kind of bad writing, given her capture couldn't really have been planned.

----------


## Stevo

Wow! I didn't see that coming. I wasn't sure if Alpha really was bad or they were just playing us... but no, she definitely is one bad bitch. Love it! 

Now let's see if her daughter has her Mother's genes...  :Cool:

----------


## Shaggy

Alpha made the same mistake Negan did when he killed Glenn. He thought he was so untouchable and figured he'd get away wth it. Same thing with Alpha. Rick & Co won't let this one go. Even if it measn that it'll end up in an all out war (again) Rick will end her. The only question is, how much are Rick's people (and Rick himself) going to lose in the process?

----------


## Jinjonator

> She's an easy 'victim' to pity, and Alpha's turn in sending her away didn't fit her character up to this point.


I'm not sure if we can really say if it was out of character or anything just yet, since we still don't know too much about Alpha personally, but I think this issue has shown there's a lot more to her than the social Darwinist philosophy she (probably constantly) tells herself. 

As for the deaths, yeah, Rosita and Esekiel were the only ones whose deaths resonated with me. The rest I struggled to remember if they were actually characters I was supposed to know. Although I think the biggest shock of all of it is the implication of what has to come next. And given the massive army the Whisperers have, it's gonna be messy.

----------


## nightw1ng

I wasn't particularly attached to Ezekiel, but Rosita's been around for awhile.  She may have been pretty much inconsequential, but Kirkman just had to make her pregnant so it's even more tragic.  It's a little unbelievable that they were able to kill so many people unnoticed.

----------


## Ragdoll

> Alpha made the same mistake Negan did when he killed Glenn. He thought he was so untouchable and figured he'd get away wth it. Same thing with Alpha. Rick & Co won't let this one go. Even if it measn that it'll end up in an all out war (again) Rick will end her. The only question is, how much are Rick's people (and Rick himself) going to lose in the process?


I disagree, I think Rick would have dropped the Negan fight if Negan wasn't going to be a constant threat in their lives, demanding huge taxations of supplies to be paid to him. Negan openly declared that he would be an ongoing problem. These people, twisted as they are, just want peace for their people. 
Negan was just a thug. Alpha is more like Rick being a President and dealing with an evil foreign leader. One with a zombie nuke, no less. Would America start a war any time a rogue group of rebels kills some tourists that stumbled into the bad part of town? Fighting Negan was like running a biker gang out of town, this is the first real war Rick will have to fight. Rick has rebuilt society, and this situation will set the standards for how the future of foreign policy works in the post-apocalypse, and Rick is just ego-maniacal enough to realize this. He already abolished the death penalty, now he will be chomping at the bit to promote peace and turn the other cheek in exchange for peace. I just can't wait for his hypocrisy to blow up in his face when the "Maggie killed" issue comes to the forefront.

----------


## Scott Taylor

Well some revelations about Whisperer culture, finally. My take is that its not tribal, as I thought before, but formalized brutality. Its taking the worst of humanity and turning it into a system where everything people have done up to this point to survive is ok. Essentially, caveman movie level of society. Obviously, Alpha is not keen on her daughter being passed around. Thinking this is really a patriarchal "culture" in spite of having a female leader.

----------


## Jinjonator

> These people, twisted as they are, just want peace for their people.


Although... it seems like snatching people up, murdering them, and sticking their heads on spikes is antithetical to that. If they just left well enough alone, this could easily be over. Whereas what they did guarantees peace isn't an option. 

Tbh, it doesn't seem like they really want peace, because this was clearly a very calculated move, and there's literally only one reaction they could possibly anticipate - retaliation. If they somehow don't anticipate that, they're morons. If they intended it as some kind of warning ("don't fuck with us, or else you'll get more of this"), they're still morons, since, again, all they had to do was do nothing and this would all be settled. Rick & co. would return home, the Whisperers would carry on their way, everybody's happy. They seem to want war, and they've certainly prepared for it.

----------


## thetrellan

> Yeah, that was a good one. I like when Kirkman splits narrative like that. He's done it a couple times to great effect. I wish he would do it more. 
> 
> 
> Spoilers follow, obviously. 
> 
> Some characters that have been around a while, but none that were especially developed characters. Rosita is a rough one, and Ezekiel, but only because they mean something to other characters, than anything to us. Maybe that's different for other people, but that's how I felt. I was wondering if we'd get Andrea or Michonne up there. I thought Andrea, as we'd clearly been trolled into expecting Michonne, with the upcoming covers, and that panel of just dreads in shadow before the page turn. Kirkman is the biggest troll, so I figured at worst it would be Andrea not Michonne who died in this issue. 
> 
> I still wonder if Alpha's daughter is playing the long con. I don't know why, I guess it's just always felt off. She's an easy 'victim' to pity, and Alpha's turn in sending her away didn't fit her character up to this point. I'd fallen into trusting her, but this issue made me rethink that. But, unless their protocol upon capture is to pretend to want out so you can learn about your capture, her being a spy would be kind of bad writing, given her capture couldn't really have been planned.


Although I have tried to talk around it, the following could be considered spoiler material.

All that about the daughter is true.  Everything she told Carl sounds designed to pull his strings, especially the rape situation.  And the way she kept trying to get Carl to leave could mean that she didn't want to be put in the position to betray him.  But if Alpha wanted the girl to be trusted, she went about it the wrong way.  

I suspect that everything is what it seems and that for all her talk, Alpha has doubts, especially after seeing Rick's society.  I don't think she even believed what his people has accomplished was possible deep down, and is stewing in a deep pit of denial.  I think that's why she did them all this way.  Survival of the fittest means that if her way is wrong, it deserves to be taken down.  So she made a move that was both a warning and an invitation to war, and left the decision up to Rick.

----------


## Omega Alpha

> .  
> 
> I suspect that everything is what it seems and that for all her talk, Alpha has doubts, especially after seeing Rick's society.  I don't think she even believed what his people has accomplished was possible deep down, and is stewing in a deep pit of denial.  I think that's why she did them all this way.  Survival of the fittest means that if her way is wrong, it deserves to be taken down.  So she made a move that was both a warning and an invitation to war, and left the decision up to Rick.


Yep, the group she built is really a patriarchy on steroids (and zombies) in which everything goes as long as it guarantees survival; but what Rick accomplishes proves everything she did- including letting her daughter getting raped (which ISN'T a lie, IMO, I don't think the mother is that much of an actress)- wasn't all that necessary, and a more civilized society was possible.

I'm thinking she's hoping for a suicide-by-cop (well, literally in Rick's case) for her society; or if she wins, she'd tell herself she was right all along. It's a twisted win-win scenario for her.

----------


## thetrellan

> Yep, the group she built is really a patriarchy on steroids (and zombies) in which everything goes as long as it guarantees survival; but what Rick accomplishes proves everything she did- including letting her daughter getting raped (which ISN'T a lie, IMO, I don't think the mother is that much of an actress)- wasn't all that necessary, and a more civilized society was possible.
> 
> I'm thinking she's hoping for a suicide-by-cop (well, literally in Rick's case) for her society; or if she wins, she'd tell herself she was right all along. It's a twisted win-win scenario for her.


Damn, no like button when you need one.

----------


## Zartan's Brother

> Yep, the group she built is really a patriarchy on steroids (and zombies) in which everything goes as long as it guarantees survival; but what Rick accomplishes proves everything she did- including letting her daughter getting raped (which ISN'T a lie, IMO, I don't think the mother is that much of an actress)- wasn't all that necessary, and a more civilized society was possible.
> 
> I'm thinking she's hoping for a suicide-by-cop (well, literally in Rick's case) for her society; or if she wins, she'd tell herself she was right all along. It's a twisted win-win scenario for her.


That was my take on Alpha's mixed messages to Rick. She puts on quite the Alpha front to her pack, even if it means killing a dozen members of the four communities who are part of the fair. What she saw at the fair, and what it means for Lydia, has brought out a more human side of her, even though it was brief.

Hopefully Negan joins in whatever fight comes against Alpha's pack and horde. He hates rape, so I imagine that alone will make him see red.

----------


## Scott Taylor

If Rick's answer is "lets get Negan and sick him on them" - not sure if I would be shocked or pleased, or a bit of both.

----------


## Stevo

My money is on a Negan redemption as the war against the Whisperers brings about a (probably uneasy) alliance between Rick and Negan... But as long as 'Lucille' gets to smash a few more skulls, I don't care how the social drama plays out. Kill or be killed. Let's get that bat back in action!

----------


## Ragdoll

I actually think that Negan is about to be executed. Maggie and Andrea are going to gang up on Rick about his anti-death penalty stance and they are going to kill Negan in issue #150 before attacking the Whispers.

----------


## thetrellan

> I actually think that Negan is about to be executed. Maggie and Andrea are going to gang up on Rick about his anti-death penalty stance and they are going to kill Negan in issue #150 before attacking the Whispers.


If you ask me, and I know you wanted to and just didn't know it, I think Negan will escape and try to team up with the Whisperers, who will be lethally unfriendly to him.  Maybe that will involve an abortive execution attempt, maybe not.

----------


## Ragdoll

This issue was great.
*spoilers:*
Last issue was a shocker, but this issue might have been even better. The reveal of the 12 deaths last month didn't give us any time to grieve, so this was the issue where I got to reflect and shed tears for the fallen comrades. It is hard to cry for Ezekiel personally, but when I am watching Michonne cry for Ezekiel, then I feel similarly moved.

Also, this is the beginning of the end, huh? Is it bad if I can't wait for Alexandria to fall and the series to return to life on the road and homelessness?
*end of spoilers*

----------


## General Nerditry

Wow, shit just got crazy.  I'm a little disappointed in some regards like others because I found the new status quo interesting, but it now appears to be back to business as usual. On the other hand...I want Michonne to cut Alpha's heart out!  Uggghhhh.  Maybe Negan will get to play.  Of course knowing Kirkman, this could all backfire and the gang could get their asses handed to them.  I do hope the entire civilization doesn't just get burned to the ground to knock them back to square one.  I like the rebuilding of civilization and I hope that sticks around and that the struggle going forward is more dealing with people like the Whisperers in a peaceful society.  It almost has a Roman empire and barbarian hordes kind of vibe.  I wonder if that is what he was going for?

----------


## Joker

I kind of figured the time skip was sort of so we could get back to business as usual instead of sitting around watching them build houses and shit. 

The Whisperers are at least a different type of foe, and I'm very curious to learn more about them. They're far more interesting to me than the overly long Negan saga.

----------


## Scott Taylor

I'm just excited because whatever happens, Alexandria and the crew is going to be facing the biggest herd in the series history. Now it could be that they try and sabotage the herd in some way. Either way they need to deal with that big stockpile now.

----------


## Batman#22

> Kirkman blasted the comic out of the water this week, one of the best issues of the run so far. The horizontal divide of the panelling with the head at the top and people talking about them at the bottom was just.... wow.


 I know right?!! That is one of my favorite comic book moments of all time. Robert Kirkman wrote the hell out of this issue. I liked how no one in the safe zone realized what was going on. They were just wondering or even infuriated with their absence. I also loved their reaction in the next issue when they all found out about who died. Especially with how Michone reacted to Ezekiel's death.




> Yeah, that was a good one. I like when Kirkman splits narrative like that. He's done it a couple times to great effect. I wish he would do it more. 
> 
> 
> Spoilers follow, obviously. 
> 
> *Some characters that have been around a while, but none that were especially developed characters. Rosita is a rough one, and Ezekiel, but only because they mean something to other characters, than anything to us. Maybe that's different for other people, but that's how I felt. I was wondering if we'd get Andrea or Michonne up there. I thought Andrea, as we'd clearly been trolled into expecting Michonne, with the upcoming covers, and that panel of just dreads in shadow before the page turn. Kirkman is the biggest troll, so I figured at worst it would be Andrea not Michonne who died in this issue. 
> 
> *I still wonder if Alpha's daughter is playing the long con. I don't know why, I guess it's just always felt off. She's an easy 'victim' to pity, and Alpha's turn in sending her away didn't fit her character up to this point. I'd fallen into trusting her, but this issue made me rethink that. But, unless their protocol upon capture is to pretend to want out so you can learn about your capture, her being a spy would be kind of bad writing, given her capture couldn't really have been planned.


 I suppose it would have been nicer if they did add a few more longer running/ more likeable characters. However we would be left with any one left if they killed of characters like Michone or Andrea. I'm just grateful that Robert Kirkman raised the stakes by having so many characters get killed off in such a brutal way. Especially considering Ezekiel was one of them. 




> Let's call a spade a spade:* none of Kirkman's antagonists in this book have been especially morally complex villains*. Shane, Thomas, The Governor, the Hunters, Doc Pete, Negan... I think the two most "gray" antagonists so far have been Dexter and Dwight, and the former bit it pretty quickly.


 I don't think that's true at all. I love the Governor. He's one of my most recent favorite villains. I love how sadistic and humorous the character was. However I do agree that he's still a disgusting character when it comes to the "rape" thing. On plus side, him doing that made his punishment the all the more satisfying and easily the most well deserved one ever. I don't just mean his death, but also the way Michone mutilated him, which led up to "Made to Suffer".

 I also like Negan and the Hunters.

----------


## Ragdoll

> Especially considering Ezekiel was one of them.


Y'know, I am mad that Kirkman thought Ezekiel was the most upsetting death, when we've known Rosita for years longer. Rosita's head gets a tiny little panel and Ezekiel steals the full page spread. Just because you sold a few "Ezekiel Has A Tiger" shirts doesn't make him the superior character. Maybe it's just because Abraham was my all time favorite character and she was my closest connection to him. Also, 'Zeke wasn't preggo, either. They killed lil baby Eugene (or baby Negan, depending on what fringe theory you support about the paternity).

----------


## Joker

Ezekiel was given more prominence because he mattered to Michonne, not us. Michonne was in the scene, so. 

What's this Negan's kid thing? How would it be Negan's kid? Am I missing something?

----------


## Batman#22

I don't know where else I can go to talk about the new show so I guess I have to do it here.

 This first episode not only met my high expectations, but it went beyond them as well. I love how this show is revealing how the world fell apart when the Zombie virus came. I loved how no one believed Nick about the walkers until the very end because he was a drug addict. Speaking of which, he's my favorite character on the show due to his originality. I don't like Alicia because she fricking rude to every one. I mean who just goes on their cell phone in class like that? Growing up my fellow students at least tried to hide their cell phones. Also isn't the metal detectors a bit much? I loved the viral video of the walker attacking the paramedic and police and how the world reacted to it. I also love how scary the opening title sequence was. My favorite part was the ending where Nick killed his drug dealer in self defense and how he came back as a walker. The family's reaction to that was priceless.

 I give it 5 stars out of 5.

----------


## GuyOne

During all the previews I couldn't stand Nick. For some reason I was quick to judge him as just a junkie but man, I started to feel bad for him when he met with his dealer. Fortunately all I could think of when he killed Cal was, "trust me, no one will care that you killed a man." This episode might have been a slow burn but it really works because we know what is coming. We'll really see a drastic change now between normal modern life and post-apoc life.

This first season looks really awesome, setting up the apocalypse, watch everything fall apart. It was all perfectly set up last night.

----------


## Ragdoll

I loved the new show. I hate Nick as a character, but as far as acting goes, he is the best on the show. He comes off like a young Johnny Depp. 




> What's this Negan's kid thing? How would it be Negan's kid? Am I missing something?


It's just a bad fan theory I read somewhere that stuck with me, that Rosita was visiting Negan after-hours and got knocked up. When they first showed pregnant Rosita, they hadn't shown Eugene yet post-time skip, so the internet was abuzz with debate about who the baby daddy was.

----------


## Joker

Talk about the new show in the TV/Film section. It has its own thread.

----------


## Batman#22

Has anyone been reading the spin-off novel's? I'm currently reading "Rise of the Governor" and I like it so much that I plan on getting the sequel book "Road to Woodberry". I had it for two days and I'm already on chapter nine.  :Smile:

----------


## General Nerditry

I read the first one, but I didn't like where they went with it, and I thought the wording was a bit over-the-top and it didn't read like a Walking Dead story to me.  I wasn't intrigued enough to get the next two.  I'd like to know what you think when you're done.

----------


## GuyOne

So thought we were gonna get the name of the father. I guess their saving that for when Jerry Springer shows up at Alexandria's door.

----------


## Ragdoll

^^^
lol

Eugene is dead. Carl will see no difference between Eugene and little Billy.

EDIT: Oh man, did you guys see this super spoilery cover for #149?
http://www.skybound.com/wp-content/u...-cover-900.jpg

----------


## Stevo

> Oh man, did you guys see this super spoilery cover for #149?
> http://www.skybound.com/wp-content/u...-cover-900.jpg


Nice! 

About time 'he' got back in to action!  :Smile:

----------


## Joker

> ^^^
> lol
> 
> Eugene is dead. Carl will see no difference between Eugene and little Billy.
> 
> EDIT: Oh man, did you guys see this super spoilery cover for #149?
> http://www.skybound.com/wp-content/u...-cover-900.jpg


Spoilery? More like super trolly! It also doesn't have to be literal. You know, Kirkman and all.

----------


## GuyOne

> Spoilery? More like super trolly! It also doesn't have to be literal. You know, Kirkman and all.


Just read the title. There might be a conversation or discussing Negan's possible involvement but I doubt he'll be let loose.

----------


## Ragdoll

At this rate, Rick will need to team up with Alpha to defeat Team Eugene. We can't forget that he's the one who knows how to make bullets and weaponry, he's the absolute last person Rick would want to lose from the community, or worse, do battle against.

----------


## capuga

> At this rate, Rick will need to team up with Alpha to defeat Team Eugene. We can't forget that he's the one who knows how to make bullets and weaponry, he's the absolute last person Rick would want to lose from the community, or worse, do battle against.


Agreed. Though I think Rick is in the right here. I know where Euge is coming from, I'd want revenge too. But putting a kid in danger isn't the way to do it.

----------


## Joker

Yeah, Eugene is overreacting, and will probably come to his senses.

----------


## el shah

> Yeah, Eugene is overreacting, and will probably come to his senses.


??? After his lady and her unborn child get killed?

----------


## Ragdoll

> ??? After his lady and her unborn child get killed?


Yeah. Maggie never went off half-cocked to get Negan after issue 100, or tried to hurt innocents on the road to All Out War. Eugene is going to destroy society because he needs revenge ASAP and can;t wait and give Rick time to formulate a plan like he did with Negan.

----------


## thetrellan

> ??? After his lady and her unborn child get killed?


Yep.  Gene is an introvert.  The reason he has trouble relating with others is that he's too good at thinking and won't jump into relationships without thinking first.  And the more he thinks, the more likely it is he will realize the Lydia is the wrong target for his anger.

Besides, the more into the story we get, the more likely it seems to me that Alpha is the most trapped person in it.  

She saw a slim chance to get her daughter safely away and took it, knowing that it was just as likely the girl would be killed in retaliation.  Her life has become the most nightmarish thing imaginable.  She only leads as long as she caters to the insanity of her community.  And now she is confronted with the reality that living may not have been worth the cost.  Just look at Lydia.  The poor girl is so messed up she can't even afford to see past her fears.  

I'm betting Alpha will turn on her own soon enough.

----------


## Ragdoll

negan smiling.jpg
Yes.

----------


## Jinjonator

It's probably already been said before (probably even by me), but Alpha really does seem like the most compelling and interesting major villain so far. The most human, somewhat ironically. 

Also, shit is getting increasingly bananas. These next two issues are gonna be wild af.

----------


## Omega Alpha

There's no chance Rick releasing Negan backfires.

----------


## Scott Taylor

Release the Negans!

Not sure if its for his leadership skills or his skills with an iron.

----------


## Joker

That's all assuming he's interested in releasing him. It could just be talking. Though, why Rick would do either of those things I don't really know.

----------


## Prisoner 6655321

Since his introduction I've kinda felt that there's more to Neagan that we still don't really understand. I don't think he's a nice guy or anything but it always struck me as he had a sort of twisted sense of honor. Looking back, the Survivors kinda sorta started the whole beef with the Saviours. Yeah, he ran the Saviours with an iron fist and they did very terrible things but did he have some reason(s) that he believed he had to do this in order for them to fulfill some role. Sure, they extorted the other communities but did they also provide a service? Was the brutality of the Saviours simply a by-product of Negan's twisted mind or his best attempt at maintaining  of their role (self appointed or otherwise) as a sorta military to protect the other communities from the hordes? When Negan was talking to Rick after their fight and claims to have seen the light could he have possibly been being sincere at least on some level? We still don't know a whole lot about his background or the history of the Saviours and I'm not suggesting that Negan is anything other than a vile manipulative bastard but I still question if this is so much a part of his nature or more about a very, very, flawed individual dealing with the situation he was put in the only way he could come up with.

----------


## Ragdoll

Negan's speech really hammered home how this Whispers arc is pulling a Saga and doing some real world commentary on our asses, with a huge War On Terror metaphor going on lately. Rick is turning into George W Bush, the Whispers are al Queda/ISIS, and Alexandrians=post 9/11 Americans. I'm enjoying Kirkman's attempt at getting deep, hopefully it just doesn't get racist.

Also, I can;t be the only one who realized Negan was just trolling Rick the moment he pretended to be all embarrassed early on. Rick is an idiot if he didn't see through that little act of playing dumb.

----------


## Jinjonator

I'm not sure I see a parallel between Rick and Dubya. Unless Rick is gonna say "We need to stop the Whisperers" and then send troops to attack some other place entirely?

Anyway, stuff with Negan didn't go down the way I anticipated, but still, a good issue.

----------


## Scott Taylor

Interesting conversation all right. Tail wagging the dog. Not sure if Rick really bought all that, though, and if he did it will represent a major shift in his character.

----------


## Prisoner 6655321

I also do not see the war on terror GWB analogy to be a very good one but the last issue did reinforce my ideas about Neagan not being quite so black and white as he's been cut out to be. I still don't think he's really "good" but probably not as utterly evil and probably a bit smarter than he's been presented. That he could have escaped but didn't kinda implies to me a bit of his thinking. Sure, he could have got out and killed some people, run away and be "free" and alone in a world full of undead but he didn't. He wants to be safe. Sure, he tried to turn some new arrivals on Rick but who can really blame a guy for trying to improve his situation? He's not crazy or dumb. He most likely viewed what he did as what he had to do in order to survive and fill the roll that the Saviours imposed or was even possibly put upon them. Heck, we don't even know if Neagan was the original leader of the Saviours or if he somehow "inherited" this group which already had its own set of rules which he had to work under.

----------


## Ragdoll

Oh man, I was dying laughing when Rick wrecked that dude zombie style. There were a lot of big laughs this issue actually.
I lol'd when they showed Vincent's face as Michonne was hot on his heels, that was a priceless "I'm so screwed" look.
I lol'd when Negan had his villainous "everything going accordingly with my plan" look, too. All the funniest moments of this issues were facial expressions, actually. Rick takes the cake for best one when he ate a dude's throat, though. I was reading the book sitting down, and literally leaped to my feet in shock and laughter when Rick fucked that dude up. I assumed Rick would live, but thought someone else would come to his rescue. But Rick doesn;t need anyone's help, he's crafty for a cripple.

Besides laughs, there was a lot of good emotional scenes. Overall, a very fine issue. It ran the gambit for fun things. It wasn't issue 100, but we just got that Whisper slaughter, I wasn;t expecting any major character deaths so soon anyways.
Was that Father Gabriel chanting Rick Grimes at the end? How long did it take that piece of shit to finally admit Rick Grimes Is God? Also, Letter Hacks hinted that Gabriel will have a part to play in upcoming stories. It better be to die, he should've died a while ago. I hope the show offs that dude early.

----------


## Joker

Spoilers for 150... 


Man, I am glad they didn't do some big character death. 100 felt a little forced in that regard, and I'm glad this was just a solid issue setting up where we go from here. 

Now that we're at 150 it might be time to sit down and re read the entire run.

----------


## Stevo

(Possible spoilers)

I thought TWD #150 was a bit weak myself... Rick was a bad ass all right and he gave a good battle cry speech, but he might as well have just done a replay of "they are fu*#ing with the wrong people" speech from #64, this time aimed at the Whisperers. The 'bed scene' was a quiet way of opening _that_ sub-plot... but I would like to have seen some more of Negan in this issue, not just the last panel, as I don't think he is staying put for too long and he's way more interesting than Rick. So although #150 was an extra sized issue, and wasn't a bad read, I didn't think it was anything special.

----------


## saul_on_the_road_to_damascus

> Spoilers for 150... 
> 
> 
> Man, I am glad they didn't do some big character death. 100 felt a little forced in that regard, and I'm glad this was just a solid issue setting up where we go from here. 
> 
> Now that we're at 150 it might be time to sit down and re read the entire run.


See I gotta disagree.  I was rooting for a major death since we haven't had one since issue one hundred.  I was really hoping either *spoilers:*
rick died or daryl showed up
*end of spoilers*  and sadly neither of those things happened.

----------


## Ragdoll

> *spoilers:*
> daryl showed up
> *end of spoilers*


I still think Daryl is going to be a modified Dwight, and Negan will be burning Daryl's face off with an iron in the season finale.

----------


## Joker

> See I gotta disagree.  I was rooting for a major death since we haven't had one since issue one hundred.  I was really hoping either *spoilers:*
> rick died or daryl showed up
> *end of spoilers*  and sadly neither of those things happened.


If Daryl shows up then I quit the comic right then and there. That's the worst fucking move they can do.

----------


## saul_on_the_road_to_damascus

> I still think Daryl is going to be a modified Dwight, and Negan will be burning Daryl's face off with an iron in the season finale.


Dwight has already been introduced in the tv series.  The guy in the mid season finale

----------


## Jinjonator

I have mixed feelings about this issue, despite the fact that I highly enjoyed it and thought it was a great issue. Mostly because they hyped up the whole "rick gets betrayed!!" angle, which made me think it would actually be someone who matters betraying Rick. And there aren't really any massive ramifications to the "betrayal", so it wasn't the game-changer I anticipated (Rick was already planning to put together the army, unite the people, and wreck the Whisperers' shit even before he was attacked; this definitely gave his rallying speech some extra oomph, but it didn't fundamentally change the course of things).

Overall though, very strong issue. Hopefully things will start to pick up a bit more in the next arc, though.

----------


## Joker

Never trust the solicitations or covers.  :Wink:

----------


## Scott Taylor

Strong issue, but nothing amazingly special happened other than Rick using his zombie-honed chewing skills. I was hoping they'd all mount up, ride into Whispererville and blow heads off and ride back. Oh well.

----------


## Ragdoll

Oooooooo this issue was awesome, and is actually the turning point I have been waiting for ever since the time jump. It seemed inevitable and now it is here: *spoilers:*
contact with another functioning post-apocalypse society. Are they going to be on the other side of America, or from Europe? Any chance we'll meet some of the Fear The Walking Dead characters living out in Cali or wherever that show is?
Also Rick is about to free the Negans, you could tell when he was telling that black dude about how if he was gone, all his future good deeds would be erased.
*end of spoilers*
So excited to see where we go from here.

----------


## Joker

Good issue. The end was nice, and I always look forward to the world expanding.

----------


## Jinjonator

> Oooooooo this issue was awesome, and is actually the turning point I have been waiting for ever since the time jump. It seemed inevitable and now it is here: *spoilers:*
> contact with another functioning post-apocalypse society. Are they going to be on the other side of America, or from Europe? Any chance we'll meet some of the Fear The Walking Dead characters living out in Cali or wherever that show is?
> Also Rick is about to free the Negans, you could tell when he was telling that black dude about how if he was gone, all his future good deeds would be erased.
> *end of spoilers*
> So excited to see where we go from here.


I wouldn't expect anyone who originated from any of the TV shows to appear in the comics. 

Solid issue tho. And a good ending. Excited to see how this particular plot develops.

----------


## Scott Taylor

Part of me is wondering if Negan might actually be reformed in some way. Probably not.

----------


## Ragdoll

I might think Negan was reformed if Kirkman didn't constantly cut to Negan's giant ass smirk every time Rick gets a little bit dictator-y. He knows Rick is self conscious and is playing him. He knew that militarization would lead to his eventual escape and chance to get his people back. Rick is even actuvely looking for someone to lead the Saviors LOL. Rick will give him his crew back, and say "please take them, I need the Negan to rule these ruffians". Then when whoever those people on the radio show up, Negan will be the one to greet them with open arms and begin his global domination.

----------


## thetrellan

> I might think Negan was reformed if Kirkman didn't constantly cut to Negan's giant ass smirk every time Rick gets a little bit dictator-y. He knows Rick is self conscious and is playing him. He knew that militarization would lead to his eventual escape and chance to get his people back. Rick is even actuvely looking for someone to lead the Saviors LOL. Rick will give him his crew back, and say "please take them, I need the Negan to rule these ruffians". Then when whoever those people on the radio show up, Negan will be the one to greet them with open arms and begin his global domination.


Honestly I feel the dynamic between Rick and Negan has taken a wrong turn somehow, as if suddenly Kirkman is unsure exactly where to take it himself.  Since I don't actually think this is so, I conclude that whatever Rick is considering might not be obvious.  Might even be mysterious.  The idea that he would even consider releasing Negan seems pretty unrealistic.  So I figure he just has an idea now what to do about the guy, that it's not obvious, and might even maybe be brilliant.  At least more brilliant than my redundant ass can imagine right now.  Geez, it's late.  Night all.

----------


## Prisoner 6655321

I dunno. I think Kirkman has been pretty solid with Negan since the start but I still don't know how to take the guy. Going back, we were never really shown much about the background of the Saviours or the nature of their relationship with their neighbors and while we saw some pretty brutal things it was never really answered if Negan was the sort of leader of the sort of group that he was because of some kinda innate vileness or because he felt that the steps he took were necessary for the greater good. The Survivors killed first, conversations have suggested pretty strongly that Negan didn't "force" anyone to do anything. I wouldn't be totally surprised if Negan has some kinda "shocking" background and turns out to have been a kindergarten teacher or something equally benign, being transformed into who he is by the post-zombie world.

----------


## thetrellan

> I dunno. I think Kirkman has been pretty solid with Negan since the start but I still don't know how to take the guy. Going back, we were never really shown much about the background of the Saviours or the nature of their relationship with their neighbors and while we saw some pretty brutal things it was never really answered if Negan was the sort of leader of the sort of group that he was because of some kinda innate vileness or because he felt that the steps he took were necessary for the greater good. The Survivors killed first, conversations have suggested pretty strongly that Negan didn't "force" anyone to do anything. I wouldn't be totally surprised if Negan has some kinda "shocking" background and turns out to have been a kindergarten teacher or something equally benign, being transformed into who he is by the post-zombie world.


Yeah, I was pretty tired when I wrote that last post so I was having trouble stringing words together.  I meant that because it seemed off there must be something to reveal that we don't already know.  Certainly there's no reason I know of for Rick to consider releasing the guy under any circumstances, other than using him as cannon fodder.  Clearly the guy expects it, but he's shown zero remorse.  How does he imagine to justify it?  It's not like he has Rick twisted around his pinky.  It's as if he knows something we don't.  That or he takes Rick for a fool.

Of course it could be he really thinks himself justified and is waiting for Rick to see things his way.  But the man bribed women into a harem, permanently disfiguring potential rivals to discourage the girls from wanting to return to their exes.  If he can't see how despicably evil his own actions have been, he must be pretty stupid.  And I'm not seeing that.  So I suspect something is being kept from us.

I expect it will all make sense in due time.

----------


## Jinjonator

> I wouldn't be totally surprised if Negan has some kinda "shocking" background and turns out to have been a kindergarten teacher or something equally benign, being transformed into who he is by the post-zombie world.


Probably not. I get the feeling Negan was probably already a bit messed up in the head to begin with, and the zombie apocalypse just gave him a context to let loose. I can understand someone losing their moral compass to varying degrees in this world, but Negan has too much fun with the things he does. 'S'just who he is.

----------


## Ragdoll

*spoilers:*
Welp, Kirkman freed the Negans. Good luck, Rick. Everyone knows those Whispers respect a real Alpha, and the top dog just broke free of his kennel. DUde is coming back with an army of Whispers and their nuclear zombie bomb.

Is there any chance Negan just killed that kid by the exit and then voluntarily goes back to jail and gives Rick the kids body, just like when that dumb girl forgot to lock his cell. Or has he learned his lesson after Rick didn;t let him out last time? I think Negan is still playing some long con on Rick, and can tell that Rick will let him out to kill Whispers if he just gives it a little longer. Negan knows he can do more damage to Rick playing nice than openly evil. 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Joker

Good issue. Exciting times ahead!

----------


## JBH3

So I plowed through from issue #132 to #150 last night. What an AMAZING read. I love this book. I've been a single issue reader since "A Larger World". This is the best book out there. I grab a lot of Marvel & DC stuff w/ a few other indies scattered around. The Walking Dead though has the best story running, any thing can happen, its a rollercoaster ride w/ a ton of characters that can be developed, killed off, introduced, etc.

My jaw dropped though when the Whisperers "marked their territory" with all of those heads on pikes.

----------


## Scott Taylor

Well, thats one big ugly chicken coming home to roost for Rick. And right after the Saviors lose their current leader.

----------


## Batman#22

Holy crap it's about time things got exciting again. I mean honestly, there little to interesting things happen since The Whisper's killed all those people. I mean I understand why Robert Kirkman needs to tell the story properly but good lord he spends way to much time on character development. First off, I *always* hated that little punk ass and his A-hole family since he first appeared. Although I sympathize with what he's going through, like Rick said he came from a family of monsters and he deserved to be treated like one. I'm excited to see where the new alliance the punk is taking with Negan (I just noticed I've been pronouncing it wrong this entire time). I also can't wait to see if the Radio man's group are friend or foe.

----------


## thetrellan

> Well, thats one big ugly chicken coming home to roost for Rick. And right after the Saviors lose their current leader.


I think Negan will surprise everyone.  Sure he wants his freedom, but if it turns out he still wants to convince Rick he's useful, this would be a golden opportunity.  One he will probably at least partially screw up on account of the fact that he's a psychopath who flat out does not understand ethical behavior.  It's actually starting to be amusing, on its way to being chilling.  But one can only hope.


> Holy crap it's about time things got exciting again. I mean honestly, there little to interesting things happen since The Whisper's killed all those people. I mean I understand why Robert Kirkman needs to tell the story properly but good lord he spends way to much time on character development. First off, I *always* hated that little punk ass and his A-hole family since he first appeared. Although I sympathize with what he's going through, like Rick said he came from a family of monsters and he deserved to be treated like one. I'm excited to see where the new alliance the punk is taking with Negan (I just noticed I've been pronouncing it wrong this entire time). I also can't wait to see if the Radio man's group are friend or foe.


Foe, I suspect.  Considering he made a condition of Eugene not telling anyone about their contact.  That's plain suspicious.  I mean, yes, that could just be Eugene interpreting the request too broadly, but when they guy didn't correct him it felt wrong to me.

----------


## daningotham

> I think Negan will surprise everyone.  Sure he wants his freedom, but if it turns out he still wants to convince Rick he's useful, this would be a golden opportunity.  One he will probably at least partially screw up on account of the fact that he's a psychopath who flat out does not understand ethical behavior.  It's actually starting to be amusing, on its way to being chilling.  But one can only hope.Foe, I suspect.  Considering he made a condition of Eugene not telling anyone about their contact.  That's plain suspicious.  I mean, yes, that could just be Eugene interpreting the request too broadly, but when they guy didn't correct him it felt wrong to me.


A friend of mine thought of this possibility.  What if Negan figures out a way to take care of the Whisperers himself?  Then he shows Rick's group that he was the one who took action and got revenge.  While Rick has been screwing around trying to be safe.  Then would Rick's group join and follow Negan? Or lose trust in Rick?  That would be an interesting scenario.  And there is nothing Rick could do to stop it.  Negan just coming back to get vengeance on Rick just seems to obvious, and Kirkman always seems to surprise me.  So I'm guessing it won't be just a simple, predictable story like that.  I'm guessing it will be something we aren't expecting.

----------


## thetrellan

> A friend of mine thought of this possibility.  What if Negan figures out a way to take care of the Whisperers himself?  Then he shows Rick's group that he was the one who took action and got revenge.  While Rick has been screwing around trying to be safe.  Then would Rick's group join and follow Negan? Or lose trust in Rick?  That would be an interesting scenario.  And there is nothing Rick could do to stop it.  Negan just coming back to get vengeance on Rick just seems to obvious, and Kirkman always seems to surprise me.  So I'm guessing it won't be just a simple, predictable story like that.  I'm guessing it will be something we aren't expecting.


I think you nailed it there.  I just had the sense that Negan wanted Rick to see things his way and wasn't sure where that was headed.  The idea that he would want to actually please Rick is patently absurd, but I can see him causing all kinds of untold damage just to prove a point.

----------


## Professor Bazinga's C-Men

> A friend of mine thought of this possibility.  What if Negan figures out a way to take care of the Whisperers himself?  Then he shows Rick's group that he was the one who took action and got revenge.  While Rick has been screwing around trying to be safe.  Then would Rick's group join and follow Negan? Or lose trust in Rick?  That would be an interesting scenario.  And there is nothing Rick could do to stop it.  Negan just coming back to get vengeance on Rick just seems to obvious, and Kirkman always seems to surprise me.  So I'm guessing it won't be just a simple, predictable story like that.  I'm guessing it will be something we aren't expecting.


I'm thinking something along these lines myself. 
If I was a betting man, I'd put some money on something like that happening. I figure Rick's story will be ending soon, and how fu*ked up would it be if the Rick Grimes entry in the New World's history books mentions the mistakes he made more than his successes and efforts as a leader in the battle to bring back civilization?
History is told by the winning side. If Negan pulls off some kind of coup by bringing about the destruction of the Whisperers, he'll be in control. Rick dies somehow while in disgrace, leaving Carl to try to redeem his father's legacy against an enemy he already has a history with. 
Negan vs. Carl seems even more awesome than Negan vs. Rick to me....

----------


## daningotham

> I'm thinking something along these lines myself. 
> If I was a betting man, I'd put some money on something like that happening. I figure Rick's story will be ending soon, and how fu*ked up would it be if the Rick Grimes entry in the New World's history books mentions the mistakes he made more than his successes and efforts as a leader in the battle to bring back civilization?
> History is told by the winning side. If Negan pulls off some kind of coup by bringing about the destruction of the Whisperers, he'll be in control. Rick dies somehow while in disgrace, leaving Carl to try to redeem his father's legacy against an enemy he already has a history with. 
> Negan vs. Carl seems even more awesome than Negan vs. Rick to me....


Yeah, that would be crazy if Rick dies in the process.  Eventually I think Carl will be the main character too like you said.  I'm just not sure how soon.  Which would really suck for the tv show as I love Andrew Lincoln as an actor.  It should be really interesting to see where they go with the story now that Negan is on the loose.

----------


## Professor Bazinga's C-Men

> Yeah, that would be crazy if Rick dies in the process.  Eventually I think Carl will be the main character too like you said.  I'm just not sure how soon.  Which would really suck for the tv show as I love Andrew Lincoln as an actor.  It should be really interesting to see where they go with the story now that Negan is on the loose.


Yeah, but the show almost always remixes the comics. For instance, I'm willing to bet Glenn isn't killed by Negan on the show. At least, not right off the "bat". (groan)
But you have to admit Kirkman has been planting the seeds for a long game between Carl and Negan. Add in the facts that Rick didn't kill him when he had the chance and now he's actually trying to get advice from him.....yeah, this isn't going to end well for Rick.  When Rick does die, I just hope Kirkman doesn't do another timejump. That's a story I'd really like to see throughout its development.

----------


## Ragdoll

Negan dialogue was hilarious. It definitely made up for how terrible his TV introduction was.  I'm glad that one dude who freed the Negans is already dead, too.

I liked Rick's face when he realized that the kid only shot that dude because Rick had whipped him into a paranoid frenzy. That shooting was another thing to emphasize how this is a metaphor for the war on terror, back after 9/11 when everyone started thinking anyone of their neighbors could be a terrorist and arabs would get beaten up on the street at night by drunk white dudes and arab run stores would get vandalized. Now everyone thinks everyone else is a Whisper.




> Yeah, but the show almost always remixes the comics. For instance, I'm willing to bet Glenn isn't killed by Negan on the show. At least, not right off the "bat". (groan)


I haven't looked at the TV forum thread, but I can't be the only one who hated the way the show handled that scene, right?

----------


## Ite

> Negan dialogue was hilarious. It definitely made up for how terrible his TV introduction was.  I'm glad that one dude who freed the Negans is already dead, too.
> 
> I liked Rick's face when he realized that the kid only shot that dude because Rick had whipped him into a paranoid frenzy. That shooting was another thing to emphasize how this is a metaphor for the war on terror, back after 9/11 when everyone started thinking anyone of their neighbors could be a terrorist and arabs would get beaten up on the street at night by drunk white dudes and arab run stores would get vandalized. Now everyone thinks everyone else is a Whisper.
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't looked at the TV forum thread, but I can't be the only one who hated the way the show handled that scene, right?


What was wrong with his TV introduction?

----------


## Professor Bazinga's C-Men

> Negan dialogue was hilarious. It definitely made up for how terrible his TV introduction was.  I'm glad that one dude who freed the Negans is already dead, too.
> 
> I liked Rick's face when he realized that the kid only shot that dude because Rick had whipped him into a paranoid frenzy. That shooting was another thing to emphasize how this is a metaphor for the war on terror, back after 9/11 when everyone started thinking anyone of their neighbors could be a terrorist and arabs would get beaten up on the street at night by drunk white dudes and arab run stores would get vandalized. Now everyone thinks everyone else is a Whisper.
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't looked at the TV forum thread, but I can't be the only one who hated the way the show handled that scene, right?


Ha. Uh, no. Plenty of others were "mildly disappointed". 
haha

----------


## Ite

Anyone worried Negan will actually killed by The Whisperers?

----------


## Jinjonator

Negan's scene in the show was absolutely incredible, right until they completely ruined it in the final moment, omitting the one thing that made it so memorable and important in the first place. (And even though they'll obviously still show it later, they totally took away the full impact by doing it this way)

This issue of TWD was definitely a nice respite from that catastrophe.

----------


## Ragdoll

> Negan's scene in the show was absolutely incredible, right until they completely ruined it in the final moment, omitting the one thing that made it so memorable and important in the first place. (And even though they'll obviously still show it later, they totally took away the full impact by doing it this way)


This. The actor did a great performance, but the writers/creative team ruined the impact of the speech with that abominable ending.

----------


## Scott Taylor

> Anyone worried Negan will actually killed by The Whisperers?


No, he's too smart for that. Besides, he'd love their style. He was the one who sent a cloaked zombie back to Alexandria. 

Probably he will kill whats-her-face, take charge of the Whisperers, and promptly release the zombie bomb on Rick.

----------


## Ite

> This. The actor did a great performance, but the writers/creative team ruined the impact of the speech with that abominable ending.


Yeah I thought he did a great job.

----------


## Ragdoll

> Probably he will kill whats-her-face, take charge of the Whisperers, and promptly release the zombie bomb on Rick.


They literally pick leaders based on how Alpha their behavior is. There is no question of Negan becoming their new leader. 
I've never seen a more alpha fictional male in my life. Dude's weapon is like if phallic symbolism got a vicious STD.

----------


## Joker

> Negan's scene in the show


This thread is for the comic, not the TV show. If you want to talk about the show, there is a dedicated thread in the TV/Film section. 

Out of respect for those enjoying one medium or the other, we try to keep the threads separate. I'll ask to have this thread labeled (comic) to avoid confusion going forward.

----------


## Ragdoll

We know the difference between threads. When they feature the same characters, sometimes there will be overlap in discussion. Maybe if an actual mod comes in and tells me "NO EVER MENTIONING THE TV SHOW, EVEN TO COMPARE TO THE COMIC" but otherwise, overlap happens and nobody cares.
It was Negan's big week, of course it's gonna come up.

I went back to the front page and saw people discussing if the military will ever show up and ruin Rick's utopia:



> Regarding the military/government infrastructure; I don't think its going to happen, not after all this time.


I have a bad feeling that those are the kinds of people Eugene is in radio contact with now. A new wannabe government that will commandeer everything Rick built.

----------


## Joker

Put shit in spoiler tags. A comic reader who isn't watching weekly should be able to read this thread without having to worry about show spoilers. 

If we know the difference between the threads, let's show it.  :Wink:

----------


## Professor Bazinga's C-Men

[QUOTE=Ragdoll;1928033]We know the difference between threads. When they feature the same characters, sometimes there will be overlap in discussion. Maybe if an actual mod comes in and tells me "NO EVER MENTIONING THE TV SHOW, EVEN TO COMPARE TO THE COMIC" but otherwise, overlap happens and nobody cares.
It was Negan's big week, of course it's gonna come up.

This. It's under the Image Comics folder, not the TV/Film folder. Operative word being Image "COMICS".
These days if people are worried about spoilers involving anything with a fanbase larger than 5-10 people, they just need to stay off the internet.

----------


## Joker

Well, if consideration and politeness is above our collective abilities then I'll see you guys later.

----------


## Professor Bazinga's C-Men

I'd like to think that common sense and realistic expectations are right in the wheelhouse of most people's collective abilities.
Unless I'm giving most people too much credit...?

----------


## Ragdoll

Hype intensifies. This looks sexy.
0.jpg

----------


## Sacred Knight

Ha, Negan's gonna seduce Alpha?  I guess that's one way to go to reconsolidate your power.  Bone the insane new top dog.

----------


## Handsome men don't lose fights

I was so happy when Negan stuck Brandon.  That whole family was annoying AF, so I enjoyed Kirkman using Neg to clean out the last (and worst) of them.  

"I'm sad, I'm soooo sad, I'm just a kid, this is so overwhelming for me--_SHLEK!!_

----------


## Prisoner 6655321

After reading the first part of Negan's origin story I only believe more that Negan may not be a hero but he was only doing what he thought he had to do.

----------


## Ragdoll

New issue today. Negan dialogue was on fire.

----------


## AwesomeUsername

Awesome issue. The comic has been killing it lately. Also, this is probably a stretch but maybe the person Eugene is talking with is located in the UK? I'm only saying that because she called the zombies "rotters". That's what they used to call them in "In The Flesh" (a UK show). Unless they've called them that before. I forget now..

----------


## Ite

> New issue today. Negan dialogue was on fire.


Can you give a summary?

----------


## Ragdoll

> Can you give a summary?


It starts with Andrea and Maggie having some discussions about their past and how it led to their present.
Then we cut to Michonne and Aaron, who are following Negan's trail. They find Brandon's dead body and proceed into Whisper territory.
Then we get 5 pages of Negan meeting the main Whisper gang, sans Alpha. He banters with them and claims to be a lone traveler. He basically tells Beta "Cool fucking set up you have! I've been meaning to find a group like this to join! I'm a total joiner!" But also stays bad ass and threatens to kill Beta when Beta talks some smack.
We then go to Eugene talking to the radio person, whose name is revealed to be Stephanie.
We get a quick scene of Carl doing metal work and telling Maggie he's staying with her people for now.
Andrea gets home to Alexandria and flips her shit about the "Fear The Whispers" signs, calling them "propaganda".
Then we're back with Michonne and Aaron. Aaron is being a gossipy bitch and whining that Jesus is too much of a man whore. As if in punishment for slandering the savior Jesus, Whispers attack and stab Aaron in the gut. Maybe he'll live, but it looks like a bad wound. The last we see of Aaron is the stabbing, so next issue should bring us his fate.
Then Negan meets Alpha and immediately declares "I"m in love" with a big puppy dog look on his face.

----------


## Ite

> It starts with Andrea and Maggie having some discussions about their past and how it led to their present.
> Then we cut to Michonne and Aaron, who are following Negan's trail. They find Brandon's dead body and proceed into Whisper territory.
> Then we get 5 pages of Negan meeting the main Whisper gang, sans Alpha. He banters with them and claims to be a lone traveler. He basically tells Beta "Cool fucking set up you have! I've been meaning to find a group like this to join! I'm a total joiner!" But also stays bad ass and threatens to kill Beta when Beta talks some smack.
> We then go to Eugene talking to the radio person, whose name is revealed to be Stephanie.
> We get a quick scene of Carl doing metal work and telling Maggie he's staying with her people for now.
> Andrea gets home to Alexandria and flips her shit about the "Fear The Whispers" signs, calling them "propaganda".
> Then we're back with Michonne and Aaron. Aaron is being a gossipy bitch and whining that Jesus is too much of a man whore. As if in punishment for slandering the savior Jesus, Whispers attack and stab Aaron in the gut. Maybe he'll live, but it looks like a bad wound. The last we see of Aaron is the stabbing, so next issue should bring us his fate.
> Then Negan meets Alpha and immediately declares "I"m in love" with a big puppy dog look on his face.


Awesome thank you.

----------


## Joker

Yeah, I didn't see that coming. Maybe I should have, but I didn't. I don't try to predict where the book is going, though. 

Great issue. Negan has never been my favorite character, but I thought he's really been improved in these last 6 or so issues.

----------


## capuga

Can't complain about an all Negan issue. Interested to see if Rick is in on Negan's plan or not.

----------


## Ragdoll

Hahahahahahaha!
Brilliant. I'm glad I didn't check CBR before coming here, that big headline article saying SOMEONE DIES IN TODAY'S WALKING DEAD would have made the ending very predictable.

----------


## Joker

This is exactly why I read TWD digitally, early in the morning. I hate big non spoilers like that. I don't want to know anything going in.

----------


## JayBee

> Can't complain about an all Negan issue. Interested to see if Rick is in on Negan's plan or not.


I don't think so, I feel as though he hates Rick too much to have been a double agent, not to mention sending people after Negan in the previous issue.

----------


## capuga

> I don't think so, I feel as though he hates Rick too much to have been a double agent, not to mention sending people after Negan in the previous issue.


I'm not sure he actually hates Rick. If Rick wasn't in on this, Negan is clearly hoping to present him with a goodwill gift. I think he respects Rick and what he's built.

----------


## Ragdoll

> I think (Negan) respects Rick and what he's built.


He does.
And he wants to take it from him.
He will play the good guy card for a while, then start turning everyone against each other.
Calling it now: down the line, Rick will be stripped of power and living like an outcast, and we will watch him live as a survivor in the badlands again, and eventually come back to battle Negan for the Iron Throne.

----------


## Joker

Or Negan is going to show that he took immediate action that Rick did not. Which is what the people wanted, however misguided that may be.

----------


## Sacred Knight

The smart money to me says that this is a power play by Negan to show he can do what Rick is unable to, to try and wrest control.  But I'd like a twist where he's genuinely trying to be a part of Rick's community and earn a place.  Not to rule or supplant, just earn a place in the society.  Make Lydia angry and vengeful against the community and groom her to be the actual new major female antagonist, with Carl at least temporarily by her side.

----------


## longshot3

> Hahahahahahaha!
> Brilliant. I'm glad I didn't check CBR before coming here, that big headline article saying SOMEONE DIES IN TODAY'S WALKING DEAD would have made the ending very predictable.


I had read the headline before reading the issue (didnt read the article until after) and the whole time reading it, i thought Negan was the one about to bethe one who dies

----------


## Jinjonator

So bizarre seeing Negan occupy the moral high ground.

----------


## Joker

Negan's always been very vocal about is stance on rape. We saw that a while back with the saviors.

----------


## Batman#22

This week I could only afford to buy three comics and I made a really smart choice by buying WD. I mean wow, for the first time in a long time WD has gotten back on track with excitement. I enjoyed seeing how Negan interacted with Alpha and the Whisperer's. I liked how Negan being as evil as he is, actually considered the Whisperers to be a greater evil then himself. I loved how at the end both Alpha and Negan had a heart to heart conversation about their past regrets and hating themselves for the decisions they've made. But Holy crap I can't believe Negan killed Alpha. That will no doubt kick start the war next issue (which is about damn time if you ask me).

----------


## big_boss

Excellent issue. I was just blown away, could not believe that Alpha was killed. Negan is something else.

----------


## Scott Taylor

Nice to know Negan is an equal opportunity a-hole.

----------


## thetrellan

> Can't complain about an all Negan issue. Interested to see if Rick is in on Negan's plan or not.


You forget whose idea it was to free him.  At best, Rick may have been aware of his escape, but I doubt it.  

Negan thinks he can take power again by proving his methods to everyone.  I don't think memories are really that short, but who knows?  There could be many who weren't on the receiving end of his methods, or who even benefited from them.  And right now Rick is primed for takeover by some enterprising demagogue.  But is Negan that demagogue?  Is anyone really going to forget how the man mutilated the faces of boyfriends of the women who joined his harem, or how he terrorized everyone under his thumb?

The sad truth is people really are that stupid.  It's the mob mentality.  And Negan will give the sharks blood to smell.

----------


## big_boss

Negan has been out of sight, out of mind for three years, the Whisperers are fresh on everbodys mind, propaganda everywhere, he strolls in with their leaders head, that will surely win some hearts.

----------


## thetrellan

> Negan has been out of sight, out of mind for three years, the Whisperers are fresh on everbodys mind, propaganda everywhere, he strolls in with their leaders head, that will surely win some hearts.


Especially if Rick hasn't made his escape public knowledge yet.  Might make Negan a legend in some minds.

----------


## Joker

This was a really good issue. It is mostly set up, but they established a lot by using the 16 panel grid, which I've always loved. That double page spread worked gloriously because of what preceded it. 

I'm glad the formatting of this is different, so it can tell the story faster per issue. Double shipping All Out War was fine, but I think I like this approach more.

----------


## Ragdoll

WAR!
This issue was good, but a lot like the most recent issue of Civil War 2, all set up for the big event. Next month: all the shit hits the fan. Looks like Kirkman is about to clean-house of side-characters.

----------


## Scott Taylor

Really curious to see what kind of battle tactics are involved when purposefully using a walker herd. Are they just like a bunch of animals, used as a big distraction? Or will the whisperers wield squads of them to take out soft targets? Maybe they are a ticking time bomb for Alexandria.

----------


## Stevo

Just caught up with #157; I loved it and I am getting really excited about where things are leading... so I am looking forward to the next issue. All hell is going to break loose... 

And it's only just over a week away... bring it on!  :Smile:

----------


## big_boss

Well 158 is out today...

Wow that was just another home run by Kirkman. A lot of high drama that's interesting so far.

First, as expected, Father Gabe has met his end. After everything, he proved useless completely. I like this choice because a lot of guys can handle training, but when he comes to the real battle they just are worth nothing. This happens in real war and isn't unusual for Gabe. In the end, he just didn't bring anything to the comic, so it felt right for him to die. Gosh that was a brutal way to go though.

Rick is not getting the help he needs and turmoil in the Kingdom is interesting. Might be a coup there.

The front line action is awesome. Beta is beasting it. I'm stoked about this rest of this arc. Negan vs Beta next issue!

----------


## Ragdoll

hahahaha they finally killed that stupid f###ing douche! I've been waiting on this one for a while. Literally never did anything right, couldn't even climb a damn ladder.

I also read Walking Dead: Rise Of The Governor today. I thought it would be generic zombie filler but it was amazing and I never saw the twist coming in the slightest. Such a crazy book! Worth it for Governor fans to read, I still like him more than Negan and this book only reinforces that.

----------


## Scott Taylor

Gabriel's first instincts were correct - he should never have tried to be a fighter. Oh well, RIP. Going to miss having some element of religion in this world.

Thinking at some point the Alexandrians will start skinning some zombies. Negan really seems to be on the up and up.

----------


## Jinjonator

So not too surprised that Gabriel died (as has been noted, he really has never had any justification for existing in the first place), but man, bit surprised by the anticlimax of him dying right away at the beginning, haha. 

This arc is shaping up nicely.

----------


## Ragdoll

> So not too surprised that Gabriel died (as has been noted, he really has never had any justification for existing in the first place), but man, bit surprised by the anticlimax of him dying right away at the beginning, haha.


Him dying early works because I thought they were building him up to be the shock death near the end. With him dead so soon, it only promises that people of actual relevance will bite the dust for the climax.

----------


## Joker

Not my favorite issue of this War, but there's some nice stuff in it. 

I kind of wish this was every two weeks like that other War.

----------


## Ragdoll

LMFAO the kills of major characters (and objects) get funnier every issue with this arc.

----------


## Scott Taylor

Haha, agree about the humor. Thinking next issue someone's going to slip on a banana peel while running from the zombies.

----------


## Sacred Knight

Is Negan getting the full-on Vegeta treatment?  People keep waiting for the other shoe to drop but at this point I'm kinda wondering if it ever will, or if we are indeed seeing Negan becoming a genuine protagonist.  It sure as hell would be more interesting than him betraying Rick and the others again at some point.  There'd be lots of cool places to go with Negan becoming a genuine member of the community,  exploring his relationships with Rick, Carl, and  especially with Maggie, whom understandably will never forgive him for killing Glenn regardless of his reformation.

----------


## Jinjonator

rip in peace, lucille 2012-2016

----------


## FoghornLeghorn

Negan's bat broke!  He seemed horrified by this!   What will happen!  Will Negan loose it cuz of the bat?  That Bat has crushed the head of many a person and Zombie!  AAAAAHHHHHH The end of the bat!

----------


## Montressor

I just find it amazing that Maggie or Rick hasn't killed Negan yet. I could see Negan becoming a 'good guy', but I cannot fathom Maggie allowing him to continue to breathe. And Glenn was one of the first friends Rick made in Year One of the zombie apocalypse.

----------


## Ragdoll

> I just find it amazing that Maggie or Rick hasn't killed Negan yet. I could see Negan becoming a 'good guy', but I cannot fathom Maggie allowing him to continue to breathe. And Glenn was one of the first friends Rick made in Year One of the zombie apocalypse.


And Rick was mad that Maggie killed Gregory. It could all be foreshadowing for a Maggie Vs Rick war all over Negan's life.

----------


## big_boss

Dang the, "Kill Negan" discussion is years old and yet still going on! I cannot figure out if he's playing the long game or not to get back at Rick. If I had to guess, I'd say he's not... but who really knows, especially with Lucille gone. Dang, separated for years, brought back momentarily only to once again be ripped apart from each other for ever. Has a very LOST feel to it in a ridiculous way like Sun and Jin.

A LOT of places for the story to go from here, but let's see what horrors fall upon the hill top.

----------


## Scott Taylor

#160 was jam packed. This story is only supposed to go two more issues but I want it to be longer.

----------


## Ragdoll

Preemptive RIP to Hershell Jr.

----------


## big_boss

I'm really really worried that baby is gonna die. What are the chances Carl, Sophia, Herschal jr and Maggie all make it out? 0% for all?

----------


## Sacred Knight

I think the baby will make it.  In fact I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a situation where Negan rescues him before this is over.  Really complicate relations.

----------


## Andru

> I think the baby will make it.  In fact I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a situation where *Negan rescues him before this is over.*  Really complicate relations.


Very interesting. I need this to happen!

----------


## Stevo

I hope Negan doesn't rescue them! It might be an interesting development, and it would change the dynamic going forward, but it would also make Negan a bit of a softie, which he isn't. (And shouldn't be!)

----------


## big_boss

I don't know if I could buy Negan getting to the hilltop since 159 on foot and saving the baby, particularly getting inside the house and saving the baby before Carl or Maggie could. Or somehow in the next two being anywhere near him to save him in a situation though. I love the idea though.

----------


## Jinjonator

"Yay. We won."

----------


## Scott Taylor

Nice to see Carl stepping up and being a man, making a self-sacrificial decision that wasn't based on trying to prove anything for once.

----------


## Jinjonator

I loved the zombie on the splash page looking back at us like "check this shit out. we 'bout to wreck this joint."

One hell of an ending though, although I'm surprised that was the conclusion of the Whisperer War arc since... the Whisperer War is clearly far from over. At any rate, it seems like zombies are finally going to become a much larger threat than they've ever been before. Hard to imagine things turning out at all okay. Could this be the end of the communities for awhile?

----------


## thetrellan

> I loved the zombie on the splash page looking back at us like "check this shit out. we 'bout to wreck this joint."
> 
> One hell of an ending though, although I'm surprised that was the conclusion of the Whisperer War arc since... the Whisperer War is clearly far from over. At any rate, it seems like zombies are finally going to become a much larger threat than they've ever been before. Hard to imagine things turning out at all okay. Could this be the end of the communities for awhile?


I believe this is the first time Kirkman has borrowed an element from the show.  Can't wait to see how it plays out.

----------


## Jinjonator

> I believe this is the first time Kirkman has borrowed an element from the show.  Can't wait to see how it plays out.


You mean ending an arc without closure? :P

And oh yeah, how could I forget to mention: nice bit of backstory on Negan and Lucille there. (Note: I have not read any of Here's Negan, so I have no idea what sort of backstory is already revealed there) Curious to see where his quasi-redemption arc goes.

----------


## The Celtic Batman

> I loved the zombie on the splash page looking back at us like "check this shit out. we 'bout to wreck this joint."


Yep. Knockout DPS. Big trouble & proves Rick's mathematics is solid. 

I was also surprised the WW ended on this 'cliffhanger', but it's all good, and who knows, maybe Beta will come along for the ride?

----------


## Scott Taylor

Looking pretty bad right now. They haven't seen a herd even close to this large since that time when Rick, Carl, Morgan and Abraham were traveling back to the group and drove into one.

----------


## Ite

Anyone else sick of Rick? Would love for him to die and Negan to take over.

----------


## thetrellan

> Anyone else sick of Rick? Would love for him to die and Negan to take over.


No, but I am getting damn sick of him acting like a wuss all the time. If I want endless self-doubt I'll read Green Lanterns.

----------


## Andru

So spoilers from Today's issue (165)..

*spoilers:*
Andrea is apparently bitten on the neck by a walker while saving Eugene from a herd...

However, I am not totally sold that it is a bite mark. The wound looks more like she was grazed by a bullet from Magna or Yumiko.
*end of spoilers*.

Thoughts?

----------


## Joker

*spoilers:*
I agree that it's more likely a bullet wound. This is a classic TWD fake out cliffhanger. Or is it?
*end of spoilers*




> No, but I am getting damn sick of him acting like a wuss all the time. If I want endless self-doubt I'll read Green Lanterns.


Well, you've been reading this long. Rick's always been like this. Back and forth, back and forth.

----------


## Scott Taylor

This is a spoiler thread, so people have been warned.

Andrea had a good run. Like others, I'm not fully convinced she's done for, but if she is then I can't really complain about the shake up. Getting to be lots of characters now.

----------


## big_boss

I think she's done. I think after such overwhelming odds they faced, it would be a serious let down if we lost NOBODY (father gab does not count).

But who knows.

----------


## Joker

I wouldn't mind seeing the cast greatly reduced and maybe even back on the road, but I don't know if I see Kirkman doing that at this point.

----------


## Scott Taylor

At some point, you would think they might seek greener pastures. The communities around here have sucked many of the available resources dry. And who needs to live near a bunch of jerks like the Saviors?

----------


## thetrellan

> *spoilers:*
> I agree that it's more likely a bullet wound. This is a classic TWD fake out cliffhanger. Or is it?
> *end of spoilers*
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you've been reading this long. Rick's always been like this. Back and forth, back and forth.


Not like this he hasn't.  This isn't just Rick second-guessing himself.  This is a guy acting like he's past his prime.  This is Cerebus after marrying Jaka.  The man who refused to let the loss of his dominant hand stop him is missing from the picture.  And as with Cerebus, it's damn annoying.

----------


## Stevo

Personally, I think Rick needs to die. Negan or Michonne taking over would change up the dynamic big time, (in different ways obviously) TWD is getting a bit stale for me at the mo. 25c issues and variant covers might push up the sales, but the plot has been sagging of late. The Andrea thing is only a plaster over the cut, Rick - and Carl - need to go.

----------


## Spensieri

I agree that Rick is getting a bit stale. I wouldn't mind seeing him take more of a backseat advisory role in the next story and let someone else step up as leader. I think Michonne is due, but she didn't want to take over the Kingdom so I don't know if she'd want to lead Alexandria. I don't think anyone would be comfortable letting Negan take control, even with his change of heart. 

I think Carl has a lot of potential. I'd like to see him developed more.

----------


## victorsage

> I agree that Rick is getting a bit stale. I wouldn't mind seeing him take more of a backseat advisory role in the next story and let someone else step up as leader. I think Michonne is due, but she didn't want to take over the Kingdom so I don't know if she'd want to lead Alexandria. I don't think anyone would be comfortable letting Negan take control, even with his change of heart. 
> 
> I think Carl has a lot of potential. I'd like to see him developed more.


I think Carl will end up killing Negan out of principle eventually. Even if Negan's so called change of heart is real. This world creates hard people, and I think the next generation is going to prove to be harsher then even the old.

----------


## Scott Taylor

This series continues to surprise. No way I saw all that coming, any of it.

----------


## thetrellan

> This series continues to surprise. No way I saw all that coming, any of it.


Apparently one truth about the zombie apocalypse: some people are just too stupid to live.  For once things were exactly what they appeared to be.

----------


## Comicazzi

I'm thinking Andrea takes the fall for the "murder" and all is reconciled when she dies.

----------


## Aldoxin

> Personally, I think Rick needs to die. Negan or Michonne taking over would change up the dynamic big time, (in different ways obviously) TWD is getting a bit stale for me at the mo. 25c issues and variant covers might push up the sales, but the plot has been sagging of late. The Andrea thing is only a plaster over the cut, Rick - and Carl - need to go.


I totally agree and I hope it's Negan.

----------


## thetrellan

> Personally, I think Rick needs to die. Negan or Michonne taking over would change up the dynamic big time, (in different ways obviously) TWD is getting a bit stale for me at the mo. 25c issues and variant covers might push up the sales, but the plot has been sagging of late. The Andrea thing is only a plaster over the cut, Rick - and Carl - need to go.


I kind of hate variant covers.  They seem like a ploy to get unwary buyers to get the same comic by accident.  Once I got used to it, it was nice to have a choice, but now I can't remember covers half the time because now an unfamiliar cover isn't vital info. My feeling is the interior artist should always do the cover.  Just one cover, no enhancements.  What you see is what you get.  If Jae Lee is on the front, he should damn well be inside too.

----------


## Joker

Well god damn...

----------


## InformationGeek

So I heard about what happened in this issue.  My response is this: It's really hard to see why this is so bad.  It just feels like another tally for the death count and another excuse to give the main character grief and motivation.  Also, hey!  Haven't seen a female character scarified to give the male character angst, drama, development, or motivation in a while.  There's an old classic trope that sadly never goes out of style.  :Big Grin: 


But yeah, it's hard to really care.  The series is what it is.  A hollow meat grinder.  Hard to care since it always seems like it's killing people.

----------


## Joker

I'm reading the book (sounds like you're not?) and I very much felt something here. 

I disagree with your take, entirely. Especially the fridge take.

----------


## InformationGeek

> I'm reading the book (sounds like you're not?) and I very much felt something here. 
> 
> I disagree with your take, entirely. Especially the fridge take.


That's fine.  If you're getting something out of this, that's cool.

----------


## capuga

> I'm reading the book (sounds like you're not?) and I very much felt something here. 
> 
> I disagree with your take, entirely. Especially the fridge take.


I agree. This isn't just another character dying. This is someone that I have years of investment in. Someone with years of development and built up emotional attachment. I very much felt this. And thought the issue was well done and handled with the depth and emotion it deserved.

And it is certainly not "fridging" every time a female character dies.

----------


## Ragdoll

Anyone else cry like a baby? My one complaint is that there's no way Negan was allowed at Andrea's death bed, not even a throwaway line like "they didn't want me to come in" makes that make any sense. We can survive one whole issue without Negan, Mr Kirkman.

----------


## InformationGeek

Let me just quote someone else on this...

It's the problem with 'anyone can die' storylines.

Either you eventually reach a point where you run out of people who shouldn't die to keep people caring, or you kill them too and train your readers not to get attached.

----------


## Joker

I just want to know if you're actually reading the book, or do you just get off on running in and spouting that you're better than things other people enjoy?

----------


## InformationGeek

> I just want to know if you're actually reading the book, or *do you just get off on running in and spouting that you're better than things other people enjoy?*


I am not better than anyone for not liking something they're enjoying.  Honestly, I feel like I'm better than anyone a lot of the time.  I feel pretty low and little.


I'll be honest guys.  I've acted like a dick about this.  Yesterday was not a good day for me and it really showed in my posts here and other forums.  I want to apologize for being a douche about this.  While I do feel negatively towards the overuse of death in The Walking Dead, I shouldn't have let that and my personal issues affect me.  I'm sorry guys.  I'll shut up.

----------


## Sacred Knight

I don't think Rick will be killed, but what they should do is have him leave for parts unknown.  Leave for a journey aimed at helping rebuild Alexandria, but don't show it.  Have that be the character's sabbatical.  Then have Negan actually run things in his absence, at first with resistance from Maggie, Carl, and Michonne but actually beginning to earn respect (on Maggie's end, just an acknowledgment that he's doing decently with the people which supercedes her feelings...obviously she'd never forgive the guy for Glenn).

----------


## Scott Taylor

Well, goodbye Andrea. Rick seems to have gotten past the worst of dealing with it. 

This issue was good but I'm a little concerned that it was done to bring the book more in line with the TV show. And that Michonne/Rick as a couple is now on the horizon. Not that I mind that, I just have really enjoyed how the comic is a different story with different characters and different dynamics.

----------


## Ragdoll

> Well, goodbye Andrea. Rick seems to have gotten past the worst of dealing with it. 
> 
> This issue was good but I'm a little concerned that it was done to bring the book more in line with the TV show. And that Michonne/Rick as a couple is now on the horizon. Not that I mind that, I just have really enjoyed how the comic is a different story with different characters and different dynamics.


If anything, this just confirmed Michonne to DIE ON THE TV SHOW!!!! NOOOOO!!!!!

----------


## Qwerty

> If anything, this just confirmed Michonne to DIE ON THE TV SHOW!!!! NOOOOO!!!!!


How's that?  They killed Andrea to make room for Michonne.  At least that's how I see it.

----------


## Joker

> Yesterday was not a good day for me and it really showed in my posts here and other forums.  I want to apologize for being a douche about this.


It's cool, man. I think we've all been there. I know I've done that exact same thing before. 

Anyway, hope you're feeling better!

----------


## Punisher007

Honestly it just gets hard to care about anyone after awhile.  You know that, more often than not, they're going to die horribly at some point.  So why invest in them at all?

That's the flaw in stories like this, especially when they go on this long.  And no, I felt nothing for Andrea's death except, exhaustion.  I knew it was coming, it was oh so predictable, Kirkman's explanation for it was lame as heck, etc.

----------


## Andru

I was honestly surprised this was not some sort of twist...I was convinced the wound on Andrea's neck was just going to turn out to be a bullet graze or something similar.

Her death feels completely random & thoughtless. Instead of feeling grief & sadness over the loss of a beloved character, I mostly feel apathetic.

----------


## Ragdoll

> How's that?  They killed Andrea to make room for Michonne.  At least that's how I see it.


They put Michonne in the Andrea role. So when the show gets to this point, it will be Michonne who has this fate. Hypothetically. They do love trolling comic fans with swerves.

----------


## Spensieri

I was half expecting her to survive the bite, throwing in a plot twist that the virus is slowly dying out. Her death felt anti-climactic. I'm still bummed that she's gone, though. 
I still feel like Kirkman isn't introducing new characters to replace the dead ones. Sure we have Magda and some other fairly new characters, but they've not been fleshed out.

----------


## Sacred Knight

> They put Michonne in the Andrea role. So when the show gets to this point, it will be Michonne who has this fate. Hypothetically. They do love trolling comic fans with swerves.


The thing is this isn't a set rule.  They don't HAVE to follow this model.  Just like they weren't obligated to have Abraham die anti-climactically with an arrow to the eye.  Just like they weren't obligated to have Carol commit suicide.  That she's in Andrea's role in the show essentially means nothing unless they want to follow the set-up.  But their hands are more than free and clear to completely avoid it if they want to, or when it gets to this point choose someone else to be the death.

----------


## thetrellan

> How's that?  They killed Andrea to make room for Michonne.  At least that's how I see it.


This occurred to me as well.  If so, it sucks big time.  It means Kirkman caved to market concerns, pandering to potential new fans who might be turned off to see Rick shacking up with some strange woman.

On the other hand, maybe it just means he now thinks Michonne is a better match for Rick, and that this is just the kick in the teeth needed to get him moving in the right direction.  He has seemed lost for awhile now.  But dammit, now my eyes are red.

----------


## Ragdoll

If comic Rick and Michonne get together, I will lose it. I doubt Kirkman is doing that angle. If he is, I would be deeply ashamed. Also, he's said a million times that comic Michonne is only attracted to black men. Rick is so far out of her type range. Show Michonne is a very different personality and doesn't have the history of hooking up with every black guy in the Prison.

----------


## thetrellan

> If comic Rick and Michonne get together, I will lose it. I doubt Kirkman is doing that angle. If he is, I would be deeply ashamed. Also, he's said a million times that comic Michonne is only attracted to black men. Rick is so far out of her type range. Show Michonne is a very different personality and doesn't have the history of hooking up with every black guy in the Prison.


Don't if I'd put it that way myself.  Tyrone and the prison were a long time ago.  

I don't know what Kirkman has said.  I rarely even read the letters pages, let alone articles behind the scenes.  But it has never been established what Michonne's 'type' is in the course of the story, and life is what happens when you're making other plans.  So even if she does have a type, that doesn't necessarily exclude the chance of her finding love outside of it.  I don't want to see this happen either, because as I said, it would seem like the only reason for it is to make the comic more like the show.  But until something appears in story, it's not canon.  No matter _what_ Kirkman has said or how many times he's said it.

----------


## MajorHoy

from forbes.com:



> *'The Walking Dead' Creator Apologized For Killing A Major Character In The Comic This Week*
> May 7, 2017 @ 12:46 PM - Paul Tassi, Contributor
> _The Walking Dead_ is off the air and _Fear the Walking Dead_ is around the corner, but big moves are happening in the source material that inspired it all. This week, _The Walking Dead_ released issue #167, which killed arguably the single most major character in the series to date, even more than the events of the famed issue #100, though perhaps it wasnt quite that brutal.
> *Spoilers* for the comic and show follow in order to be able to discuss this, so turn back if youre not caught up. I will say that this death should not spoil a character death on the show, for reasons that will be obvious in a minute.
> Andrea is dead. Robert Kirkman killed her, and he felt so bad about it, he actually ended the issue with an apology to fans. Andrea put herself at risk saving Eugene from a horde of walkers, and ended the encounter with a small but deadly neck bite. Issue #167 is start-to-finish all about her slow demise, with the entire population of the comic wishing her farewell...


You can read the rest at: https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertc.../#2baf24b05cd3

----------


## Scott Taylor

> Her death feels completely random & thoughtless. Instead of feeling grief & sadness over the loss of a beloved character, I mostly feel apathetic.


I felt that way about Glen's death as well. And Tyrone's death before that.

----------


## Ragdoll

> I felt that way about Glen's death as well. And Tyrone's death before that.


This question is not just for you, but everyone complaining about the lack of emotional impact:

Would this have been a better issue if Rick actually killed himself with Andrea and left the book in Carl and Negan's hands? I've heard some people saying Rick's time is coming to a close, and Kirkman really had me thinking Rick was going down this issue.

----------


## Joker

I thought the issue was just fine as is.

----------


## Scott Taylor

> This question is not just for you, but everyone complaining about the lack of emotional impact:
> 
> Would this have been a better issue if Rick actually killed himself with Andrea and left the book in Carl and Negan's hands? I've heard some people saying Rick's time is coming to a close, and Kirkman really had me thinking Rick was going down this issue.


Probably not. For emotional impact, its got to be tough to write considering how many people have died over the course of the series. I'd rather see this kind of issue, where its not as shocking and emotional, than the kind where the death is treated like its the first time its ever happened. This series has had a LOT of people die, and the meta-commentary from Andrea to Rick in this issue was spot on - its just another death, get over it.

----------


## DanMad1977

No talk about the latest issue? 

I thought Negan would take over...

----------


## DanMad1977

Everyone talking in the Marvel thread, and no one over here?

 What happend guys??

----------


## Spensieri

I enjoyed the latest issue. I don't like seeing Dwight and Rick at odds with one another, but I understand how Dwight feels. I hope it doesn't come to a show down between the two of them, because I really like seeing them work together. 

I'm looking forward to seeing what happens with with new community in Ohio.

----------


## Sacred Knight

My guess is Negan is going to figure out in short order that Dante is tailing him.  They'll leave it ambiguous for a short period his fate, hinting perhaps that Negan killed him, only for Dante to return to Hilltop quite alive. Probably with some off-color message from Negan telling Maggie to leave him the f-k alone.  It'll be the start of a long game to Maggie having to come to the realization that Negan's changed.  Doesn't mean she ever has to like him, he killed her husband and that'll never just go away, but just knowing he's not what he once was.

----------


## thetrellan

> Everyone talking in the Marvel thread, and no one over here?
> 
>  What happend guys??


Dude, TWD is always one of the last comics I read.  More depth than most, and also an independent label.  It only came out yesterday, and this thread is hella old.  It's gonna lag at times, especially now that momentum has come to such a grinding halt that nothing is phasing fans.

Today I just happened to be in the mood for it, though.  I'm glad to see Rick showing some attitude, even if it's to the wrong guy.  Lately the book has had the same feel Cerebus had after the aardvark married.  All the time civilized has put Rick off his game, and I fear he's not long for the world.  But unlike some, I'm not looking forward to it.  The core group has been divided for too long, and the book seems less attractive because of it.  But getting rid of Rick would continue the trend in the wrong direction.

Dammit, Kirkman, either prove me wrong or prove me right!  I'm _this close_ to dropping the book.

----------


## DanMad1977

Yeah, Negan is the new star of the book, i guess. 

Rick is kinda like a worn out tire...

----------


## thetrellan

> Yeah, Negan is the new star of the book, i guess. 
> 
> Rick is kinda like a worn out tire...


Missing some tread, sure.  But that never stopped him before.  I'm actually starting to miss that old phone he used to carry around.  Heh.  Good times.

----------


## thetrellan

> I was half expecting her to survive the bite, throwing in a plot twist that the virus is slowly dying out. Her death felt anti-climactic. I'm still bummed that she's gone, though. 
> I still feel like Kirkman isn't introducing new characters to replace the dead ones. Sure we have Magda and some other fairly new characters, but they've not been fleshed out.


This is likely why the new journey has been set up.  Whoever survives it will be the new core group, I'm thinking.  Or maybe just to expand our cast of characters as the book enters a new phase, where the community expands.  Because clearly, hanging around in relative safety is just eating away at everyone. People be dying and blaming it on Rick, those close to them doing the same.  Who knew peace was so stressful?

----------


## DanMad1977

No to the phone thing, that was awkward.

But yes to hitting the road. That would be cool. A core group hitting the road to discover something, or something like that. I would like it...

----------


## thetrellan

> No to the phone thing, that was awkward.


There's always someone who takes the joke seriously.  Glad it's not me this time.


> But yes to hitting the road. That would be cool. A core group hitting the road to discover something, or something like that. I would like it...


We already know it's happening.  I just hope it gets some serious page time.

----------


## DanMad1977

Ah...a smiley would help to understand  :Stick Out Tongue: 

I still cant believe a zombie book is so darn successful...

----------


## thetrellan

> Ah...a smiley would help to understand 
> 
> I still cant believe a zombie book is so darn successful...


Smilies are crutches! Down with all smilies!!   :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Qwerty

http://www.avclub.com/article/robert...d-comic-258410

So apparently the Walking Dead will be coming to an end.

----------


## Scott Taylor

Huh, well part of me is really hoping they deal with the zombie cause before the end. Maybe they do go to Washington and find out someone's been working on a cure this whole time.

Or we could go with the fan theory that this has all been a fever dream of Rick's.

----------


## Qwerty

> Huh, well part of me is really hoping they deal with the zombie cause before the end. Maybe they do go to Washington and find out someone's been working on a cure this whole time.
> 
> Or we could go with the fan theory that this has all been a fever dream of Rick's.


I'm looking forward to this new group Eugene has been talking to

----------


## Emperor-of-Dragons

> Huh, well part of me is really hoping they deal with the zombie cause before the end.


Fans will riot if that happens. Soon as the series started i remember reading fans letters to him begging not to explain anything.

----------


## Joker

That article makes it sound like it's ending soon, but I wouldn't count on it wrapping up at 200 or something.

----------


## thetrellan

> That article makes it sound like it's ending soon, but I wouldn't count on it wrapping up at 200 or something.


This is true.  Kirkman talks sometimes of things well in advance.  Like years in advance.  And sometimes they never happen.  Which doesn't rule out them not happening in the future.

I sense the hand of a master of misdirection.

----------


## Spensieri

I swear I read an article years ago were he said the comic would end at issue 150. Obviously that didn't happen. 
Then again he could end it at any time. I'm still surprised that Invincible isn't going to end on a milestone issue #.

----------


## Joker

He's usually talked about it going to 300. Or that he had it roughly mapped out to that point. But things change. Negan was originally going to die pretty shortly after his debut. That didn't happen.

----------


## Joker

Anyone get the variant with extra pages?

----------


## Spensieri

I didn't see that version. What was in the extra pages?

----------


## thetrellan

I already think everything about variants sucks.  You telling me I have a whole new reason?

----------


## Joker

It's the first 7 pages from the next issue. It's a little annoying, but it's not like you'll never get to read it.

----------


## thetrellan

> It's the first 7 pages from the next issue. It's a little annoying, but it's not like you'll never get to read it.


Oh.  Putting away my angry hat for now.   I'm still ticked about Negan's back story appearing in a book I have no other reason to get, though.   So I'm keeping it within reach.  That's right, Kirkman.  I'm talking to you. ;P

No, I got the regular version.

----------


## Joker

Negan's story is being collected, though. So again, it's not like you'll never get to read it. 

Obviously that was an attempt at putting incentive on picking up Image+. I actually liked Image+. It was nice for interviews and previews, and $2 ain't that steep in this market. But I get why it was annoying for some people.

----------


## thetrellan

> Negan's story is being collected, though. So again, it's not like you'll never get to read it. 
> 
> Obviously that was an attempt at putting incentive on picking up Image+. I actually liked Image+. It was nice for interviews and previews, and $2 ain't that steep in this market. But I get why it was annoying for some people.


I'd just rather read the comics, not read about them.  It should be all you need in order to understand.  But I was just comparing the list of worlds from Multiversity to those in DC's database, and have to admit, after all these years, that it's all a confusing mess.  I'm not going into it further than that, but daaamn.

I can see how fanzines can by useful.

----------


## Joker

It's more about previews and interviews for _upcoming_ books. It's basically Image's version of Previews. It's nice for $2.

----------


## Jinjonator

Just read 171. I like Princess already (altho she's clearly designed to be likable, it feels).

----------


## thetrellan

> Just read 171. I like Princess already (altho she's clearly designed to be likable, it feels).


Designed to be suspicious, you mean.  Who cries wolf at this late stage of the Apocalypse?

----------


## Catsonheat

Hey all, is The Walking Dead really worth getting into at this stage? I know it's really popular and become a bit of a phenomenon and I'm not trying to start any fights haha, I'm pretty sure everyone in this thread is going to be a huge fan but as someone who is new to comics I look at TWD and just think, wow, 170+ issues, there's like 26 TP's and huge compendiums! When you are buying the issues weekly and you are up to date it's not so bad but i would have to invest a lot of money into buying all the existing volumes to try and catch up, but would you say its definitely worth it? There seems to be no end in sight for this comic!

----------


## thetrellan

> Hey all, is The Walking Dead really worth getting into at this stage? I know it's really popular and become a bit of a phenomenon and I'm not trying to start any fights haha, I'm pretty sure everyone in this thread is going to be a huge fan but as someone who is new to comics I look at TWD and just think, wow, 170+ issues, there's like 26 TP's and huge compendiums! When you are buying the issues weekly and you are up to date it's not so bad but i would have to invest a lot of money into buying all the existing volumes to try and catch up, but would you say its definitely worth it? There seems to be no end in sight for this comic!


Sure, if you start at the beginning.  Monthly costs more, in the long run.  You don't have to catch up all at once, you know.  But you could get the omnibus I've heard about, if that's your wish.  Just start with volume one, otherwise.  At least that way you can decide if want to keep buying.

Things have been less gripping lately, though.  I wouldn't recommend starting with the latest monthlies.  They're not really representative of the series as a whole.  But you can do that too, if you must.  You might feel different than those of us who are up to date do, and it seems to be picking up a bit anyway.

----------


## Joker

I'd try to find the compendiums used if you want a cheap way in.

----------


## thetrellan

> I'd try to find the compendiums used if you want a cheap way in.


Word.  Listen to this guy, Catsonheat, he knows whereof he speaks.

----------


## Jinjonator

> Designed to be suspicious, you mean.  Who cries wolf at this late stage of the Apocalypse?


I think it's just to show how weird and off her character is. If anything, I think it actually makes her less suspicious; if she had ill intent, she'd be trying to act normal and gain their trust, and this wouldn't really help with that. She's just odd, I think.

----------


## thetrellan

> I think it's just to show how weird and off her character is. If anything, I think it actually makes her less suspicious; if she had ill intent, she'd be trying to act normal and gain their trust, and this wouldn't really help with that. She's just odd, I think.


I do think you're right.  But what Michonne is thinking is that maybe the girl is trying to put them off their guard.

----------


## Scott Taylor

Nooooo not Jesus!

----------


## Jinjonator

I'm sure he'll live. Would be odd to end on a cliffhanger like that, if he's actually just gonna die, ya know.

----------


## Spensieri

I really hope they don't kill off Aaron. I assume Jesus will survive. For some reason I feel like Beta will take Jesus captive... which is not something the Whisperers usually do, but he might be changing strategy to try and get the most revenge out of his inevitable attack on Rick's group.

----------


## DamianBane

Jesus should def not die!

----------


## Scott Taylor

Well, Beta is *drumroll* some dude no one in this world knows but who is famous there. An interesting development, but feels a little like a wasted opportunity for some social commentary to reveal him right before he just dies like a punk.

----------


## Joker

Felt like a rushed end to the Whisperers so they can move on to this next arc, Brave New World or whatever it's called. 

I don't care, really. People get quickly dispatched in this book all the time, so it's nothing new. Beta being a somebody, but a nobody to us is fine, too. Mostly, it just felt like an extra quick wrap up.

----------


## InformationGeek

I just keep trying to read this book just feels like Robert is going in circles honestly.  Ever feel like every story is almost the same in structure and form, but raises the stakes just a little bit further?  It's more of a story that's less to do with zombies and more to do with fighting a wannabe dictator or warlord before moving onto the next one.

----------


## thetrellan

> I just keep trying to read this book just feels like Robert is going in circles honestly.  Ever feel like every story is almost the same in structure and form, but raises the stakes just a little bit further?  It's more of a story that's less to do with zombies and more to do with fighting a wannabe dictator or warlord before moving onto the next one.


Yes.  That's why they say "The Walking Dead" refers to survivors, not zombies.  Zombies are a constant threat, but not the main focus.  They never have been.


> Felt like a rushed end to the Whisperers so they can move on to this next arc, Brave New World or whatever it's called. 
> 
> I don't care, really. People get quickly dispatched in this book all the time, so it's nothing new. Beta being a somebody, but a nobody to us is fine, too. Mostly, it just felt like an extra quick wrap up.


As expected.  Beta talked like a bigger threat than he really was, but with Alpha gone, the real threat was removed.  They were reduced to being just malcontents hiding in the woods.  The fact that they wanted to recruit new blood confirms this.  Rather than anticlimactic, I found this satisfying.

In fact, the whole issue satisfied.  Things are moving again, and more interesting than they've been in awhile.  Although I do wish the journey of Michonne's group had lasted longer.  It was supposed to take weeks, but if those weeks take place in real time, it seems like two days at most.  So that part did feel rushed.  Considering how easily Beta and his crew were dispatched, it's not surprising how you feel.  One of these should have been handled more slowly.

----------


## Joker

I didn't really have a problem with it. I mean, we did their story. It was interesting, but where else do you take it? There wasn't really that much meat on those 
bones. 




> I just keep trying to read this book just feels like Robert is going in circles honestly.  Ever feel like every story is almost the same in structure and form, but raises the stakes just a little bit further?  It's more of a story that's less to do with zombies and more to do with fighting a wannabe dictator or warlord before moving onto the next one.


This is a fair, if tired criticism of the book. It's been thrown at it for a long time, and I suppose with good reason. 

But, that's what the book is, and has always been. You either like the book for what it is, or it isn't for you. I don't think it's a negative. Like all things, though, it won't be for everyone.

----------


## thetrellan

> I didn't really have a problem with it. I mean, we did their story. It was interesting, but where else do you take it? There wasn't really that much meat on those 
> bones. 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a fair, if tired criticism of the book. It's been thrown at it for a long time, and I suppose with good reason. 
> 
> But, that's what the book is, and has always been. You either like the book for what it is, or it isn't for you. I don't think it's a negative. Like all things, though, it won't be for everyone.


It's Romero's original concept, as seen in Night of the Living Dead (as opposed to the Dawn of the Dead remake, and the spoof Return of the Living Dead series, where zombies could run or even talk).  Outside of short passages like the one from- was it 28 Days or Weeks later?- where you actually see a time lapse of what it's like to be a z, no film is about the zombies themselves.  It's about the humans responding to the zombie menace.  

I actually prefer the slow ones.  There's something frighteningly inevitable about such a lethal threat one can easily outmaneuver one on one, but which becomes so overwhelming in groups.  The book's biggest zombie moments have to do with every increasing swarms of living dead.  Romero's last zombie film had them learning to eat horses instead of people, but I say so what?  They used to eat people and now they eat anything in sight.  That just endangers the food supply.  It wouldn't make anything safer. 

But I digress.  This isn't about the show or about films.  But anyone who expects screaming rage zombies, or zombies that evolve, probably won't like TWD.  That's true.

----------


## Joker

I like slow zombies. I agree about the inevitability of their threat. 

But I love 28 Days Later, and like parts of the Dawn remake.

----------


## thetrellan

> I like slow zombies. I agree about the inevitability of their threat. 
> 
> But I love 28 Days Later, and like parts of the Dawn remake.


Me too.  That remake was much better than the original, imo.  I used to hate zombie movies.  But one day I admitted to myself it was because they scared me.  Now I can't get enough of them.  Psychology must be fascinating.

----------


## Joker

Oh man, no, I LOVE the original. The remake falls apart the farther into it you get. The original stays great. 

On that note, the helicopter they case in TWD that leads them to Woodville, is supposed to be the helicopter from Dawn of the Dead. You can see the character's heads in the Governors fishtanks. A fun little easter egg.

----------


## ArthurCurry

Does anyone else think Princess is Negan's long lost sister?

----------


## thetrellan

> Oh man, no, I LOVE the original. The remake falls apart the farther into it you get. The original stays great. 
> 
> On that note, the helicopter they case in TWD that leads them to Woodville, is supposed to be the helicopter from Dawn of the Dead. You can see the character's heads in the Governors fishtanks. A fun little easter egg.


Oh man, that is just awesome.  I freaking love that show.  

But I do have trouble with the original Dawn.  The zombies are too obviously actors in makeup.  Color was new, they weren't used to it, and couldn't get away with it the same as in Night of the Living Dead.  By the time Day of the Dead was done, they had it figured out.  But Dawn of the Dead looked really amateurish.  Which is a shame, because it had a more interesting story than Night did.

----------


## Joker

I meant in the comic. The show didn't do that. 

I love the zombies in Dawn. I love the blue tone to them.  I think it's wonderful.

----------


## thetrellan

It was green.  And the skin near the eyes and lips was normal, as if they were afraid to get too close with the makeup.  Seriously, you never noticed how fake that looked?  Ah, but I didn't see it til I'd reached my fifties.  It's still a recent memory to me.  Doesn't bear up to today's standards at all.  Maybe if I'd watched it in the 70s.

----------


## Joker

I remember. I just don't care. I'm not saying it's amazing work, just that I like the story enough that '70s make up effects don't detract from it for me.

----------


## Scott Taylor

> I remember. I just don't care. I'm not saying it's amazing work, just that I like the story enough that '70s make up effects don't detract from it for me.


Same here for me. In fact, this is one of my big issues with CGI in movies over practical effects. Moviemakers sometimes assume we care too much about silly details that will be silly no matter what they do.

----------


## Joker

It'd have a hard time flying today, but given when it was made I have no issues with its effects.

----------


## thetrellan

> Same here for me. In fact, this is one of my big issues with CGI in movies over practical effects. Moviemakers sometimes assume we care too much about silly details that will be silly no matter what they do.


I agree that CG effects should be used when it saves time and money.  Outside of the occasional green screening, it doesn't where zombies are concerned.  Someone turning shouldn't look like Banner Hulking out. For some things, the old ways are best.

That said, I grew up in the 60s and 70s.  Before computers got involved, special effects were pretty pathetic.  I thank God for CGI.

----------


## DanMad1977

I am a child of the 80´s and must say, i love handmade stuff. The Ninja Turles? Gremlins? Critters? Some CGI from today makes me cringe. So bad, so soulless. Mind it, not every CGI is bad, but some of them are really awful in contrast to the production cost...

----------


## thetrellan

> I am a child of the 80´s and must say, i love handmade stuff. The Ninja Turles? Gremlins? Critters? Some CGI from today makes me cringe. So bad, so soulless. Mind it, not every CGI is bad, but some of them are really awful in contrast to the production cost...


The biggest problem with CG art lies in living things.  The eyes, in particular, are really tough to get right.  Too often they look like the dead things they are.  But faces are problematic as well.  Often they only look great from just one or two angles, and the rest is just blah.  That's why most of what you see in CG looks like a comic strip.  Simple models with really large eyes.

As an art student, though, I love to see realistic 3d renditions.  They do get better and better, and when artists are encouraged to excel, the results can be astounding.  But as a gamer, I know that a basic, simple fact is that no matter how realistic the environment, there always comes a point where the mind adjusts, and sees the artificiality at all times.  All of that work by so many people, and in the end the mind rejects it as fake.

So yeah, it should be used judiciously.  It's not really a fit replacement for traditional cartooning.  Especially since a key element to making cartoons work is the viewer's imagination.  Animators walk a fine line, needing to be able to recognize when to let imagination do its work.  Another reason for the cartoony look.  Rendering in 3d (as well as viewing in 3d stereo vision) may look great, but the viewer kind of needs to ignore it all in order to appreciate the more basic, hands-on design.  

I don't know if that makes sense.  I'm trying to describe something that sequential artists have known all along.  That what isn't shown titillates the imagination, and makes the unreal seem real.  When the mind has to fill details, in some ways it uses the heart, and the result is a richer impression, whether because detail is boring exposition or whatever.  In comics, though, the mind fills in the action between panels.  You may not see Batman's arm move, or his fist strike.  But he seems to move all the same.

And, again, it's possible that all of that beautiful detail painted under and over the ink work makes the imagination's job that much harder.  I haven't really decided.  I was always in it for the art, you see.  So I'm just thrilled to see it.

----------


## DanMad1977

Thats a very fine explanation! 

The worst thing with CGI are explosions. Why do that with CGI when you can blow up a real car? It worked and felt real every time.

Ah, we are straning too far from the TWD thread here...but still...

----------


## thetrellan

> Thats a very fine explanation! 
> 
> The worst thing with CGI are explosions. Why do that with CGI when you can blow up a real car? It worked and felt real every time.
> 
> Ah, we are straning too far from the TWD thread here...but still...


Almost forgot what forum I was on.  Braaaiins!!

----------


## Chris Reager

I'm really enjoying how cinematic the approach with the panels has been of late; lots of non-verbal stuff happening but yet it still feels so TWD, which is great.

I'm intrigued by Princess so far but not overly...I'm also intrigued as to what Dwight has planned.

Not long now for #174 (!)

----------


## thetrellan

> I'm really enjoying how cinematic the approach with the panels has been of late; lots of non-verbal stuff happening but yet it still feels so TWD, which is great.
> 
> I'm intrigued by Princess so far but not overly...I'm also intrigued as to what Dwight has planned.
> 
> Not long now for #174 (!)


I know, right?  There was this one scene where the group came on a bridge, and I could practically hear the wind blow and leaves skitter.  Awesome.TWD 170 (17).jpg

----------


## Chris Reager

> I know, right?  There was this one scene where the group came on a bridge, and I could practically hear the wind blow and leaves skitter.  Awesome.TWD 170 (17).jpg


Thank you, that’s exactly what appealed to me when I wrote that.

Cheers!

----------


## Chris Reager

Finally, issue #174...!

Focused on Negan, which was interesting...I actually didn’t see Maggie coming to throw the red herring in there...and the ending definitely intrigued me as to what happens next with Negan...

Not bad.

----------


## Joker

I wonder if anything will happen. Maybe nothing needs to happen with him. That was definitely the end of a character arc.

----------


## Comicazzi

This was masterfully done. I literally would be satisfied if we never saw Neegan again as much as I love him. This is too perfect of an ending to his involvement with Ricks group. If anything he may be gone for years...

----------


## Scott Taylor

Really well done end to Negan's arc. Gonna miss him, but he needs a break.

----------


## Joker

Yeah, I'd be fine with never seeing him again. Not out of dislike, but that was a fine end to his story. 

Meanwhile, a new arc! New World Order!

It's going to be interesting to see how that last page plays out. I can't recall Michonne's origin 100% off the top of me head, so I don't remember the deal with her daughters.

----------


## Scott Taylor

During the prison (waaaay back) I think the daughters were described at some point by her as "missing," which pretty much means dead in this world. 

So far, the New World Order seems pretty basic. Not a lot to distinguish it from every other community we've seen along the way. Except that they are bigger with more stuff. They remind me a bit of the kingdom.

----------


## Comicazzi

Just re-read the Michonne origin special. Zero mention of children. Didn't she mention a son who died in the show? If she mentioned anything in the comics of her missing children I'd love to know which issue.

----------


## Ragdoll

Interesting issue. Has Kirkman ever commented on Fear The Walking Dead TV characters being added to the comic? This would be the point to introduce some of them, if there ever would be one.

----------


## Joker

He's not putting TV characters in the comic.

----------


## Scott Taylor

So far the New World Order people seem classy enough. A bit militaristic, but that is understandable. They don't seem to have a currency, which is interesting since they seem so bent on re-establishing civilization. No post-apocalypse society has had a currency yet.

Waiting for the other shoe to drop on these guys, I guess.

----------


## thetrellan

> So far the New World Order people seem classy enough. A bit militaristic, but that is understandable. They don't seem to have a currency, which is interesting since they seem so bent on re-establishing civilization. No post-apocalypse society has had a currency yet.
> 
> Waiting for the other shoe to drop on these guys, I guess.


We know they like lawyers and won't let you play with radios.  The first part is a huge red flag, and I tend to think it's more about wanting a successful self-starter (preferably a woman? No time like the Apocalypse to correct social imbalance, anyway).  The second is perfectly understandable.  I thought Eugene was plain crazy to keep talking with a complete stranger from God knows what hellhole.  At least without telling Rick.

You need some kind of wealth depository established before you can establish paper currency.  Otherwise you could melt precious metals into coins of specific weight.  Dealing with real metal of real value would reduce inflation, and give a measure for it.  But they're still at the barter stage, I imagine. That's what Negan had going.  I wonder if anyone has cleared Fort Knox or Grand Central Terminal yet?  That's where the real wealth resides.

----------


## Joker

I'd really like it if this community isn't Woodbury again. 

It doesn't have to be perfect, but I don't want to see another villain community. The book's been moving in the direction of people re establishing functioning communities for a while, and I'd like to see that come to fruition here. 

I don't know where the story goes from there, but I'd like to see something different. That'd be the real twist.

----------


## Scott Taylor

Who is the next antagonist if they move away from the "villain community" concept?

They've done massive herds multiple times.

----------


## Joker

Like I said, I don't know where the story goes. 

I'm also not sure I want to see our group fully integrate into this community, either.

----------


## thetrellan

If we've learned anything from the Apocalypse, it's that jerkwads use it to set up little dystopias.  But we seem to have entered a civilizing stage.  I hope this encounter at least leads toward connecting two geographically separate communities who then go on to crush these nightmare towns one by one.  The new guys seem to be well equipped for such a project.  

To be united enough to insist your neighbors behave like real human beings.  That would be something.  Even in the real world.

----------


## Morsoth

Hi guys, I have a kinda off topic question. Do you think *Here's Negan* will ever be reprinted in Trade Paperback? The Hardcover is very cheap - so cost is not the problem- but since I own the Compendium #1-3, having the oversized HC of *Here's Negan* will look a little weird on the shelf (it's my OCD thing)!

----------


## Joker

I'd assume. They've published everything else in every format possible.

----------


## Scott Taylor

> To be united enough to insist your neighbors behave like real human beings.  That would be something.  Even in the real world.


Or not. These commonwealth folks seem united by a tenuous system of checks and balances, and they are at risk for a military coup. Not that thats a bad thing necessarily, but we know so very little about the community right now that its still to early to tell. 

The military/quasi-military guys are neat, though. After using body armor like that way back in the prison, that technique was just kind of abandoned for no reason at all.

----------


## Joker

A lack of the actual equipment? 

I suppose one angle is The Commonwealth turns in to a riotous chaos, all is lost, and our heroes have to bail.

They don't seem evil. But I don't see this being the new Alexandria, either. So, I'm not sure what's going to happen here, but I can't help but keep guessing how this goes wrong.

----------


## Scott Taylor

> They don't seem evil. But I don't see this being the new Alexandria, either. So, I'm not sure what's going to happen here, but I can't help but keep guessing how this goes wrong.


Maybe the community really isn't all that big?  The guy said they had 50,000 people, but perhaps in reality its more on the level of Hilltop, and they just put on a show for new people.

----------


## thetrellan

The spoiled kid reminds me of how Alexandria played out on the show.  Maybe Kirkman wants to explore the theme.  I think it would be strange to see a project of mine brought to life as his was and to not have it spark ideas.  Not borrowing, just a variation of theme.

----------


## DanMad1977

I have the feeling the NWO arc will be big. Its already full of interesting stuff and characters, and its just two issues in.

----------


## thetrellan

> I have the feeling the NWO arc will be big. Its already full of interesting stuff and characters, and its just two issues in.


Since Kirkman has been teasing us for years about it through Eugene's secret radio conversations, it ought to be.

----------


## DanMad1977

Its good to see that the book is still interesting, and i think NWO could be as good as All out war...

And as much as i liked Negan (no, i hated him, but not really. He was a very interesting character) its good to not see him anymore. I have the feeling his story is told for now.

----------


## Joker

This thread sure died off. Over a year since the last post! 

I suppose today is as good a day as any to revive it, right?

----------


## Zero Hunter

I am really surprised they finally did it.  Even after reading last months issue I didn't think they would really go through with it, but they did.  And to have it go down that way really was a very sad moment.

----------


## Morsoth

It's sad that this thread is dead. I still love TWD and I'm up-to-date. Very curious to see how things will evolves now.

Quick question: who's your favorite (alive) character now? Seriously, I could say Negan but he's gone since a while... I'm not sure who's my favorite I guess...

----------


## capuga

Was disappointed that it was that whiny little entitled punk that was the one to finish him off. Would have preferred him going out in a more badass way.

----------


## Scott Taylor

Yah it was a little disappointing that he went out like that, but the circumstances this time were way different from the last time a whiny little punk tried to take him out. This time, his death will have significant meaning to a lot more people. 

I always thought what set Rick apart was that he was in that coma during the fall of humanity. He was never broken by it, never had to go through what everyone else did, but just woke up during the apocalypse with all the same pre-event attitudes intact. It took him longer to go through all the pain that others were very familiar with, so he continually lived in a headspace that was removed from everyone else. 

Now its all survivors, all broken people who are left. But Rick will be remembered and serve as the big inspirational figure for future generations. And I think it was time to have this happen, for sure. 

Wonder if it might be time for another time skip.

----------


## Joker

I'm kinda glad he went with little fanfare. I'm glad it wasn't some big badass moment. 

I personally would like to see Maggie take the unofficial lead. Carl to an extent. I'd also just like to see the expanded cast fleshed out a little more. 

It also might be time for an epic re read of the whole damn series.

----------


## Ying Ko

Well, I guess i will be dropping this book now, just like I stopped the tv show after Rick left. To me, this was always Rick's story

----------


## Joker

I think it was time. There wasn't much left to do with Rick at this point. I think his character had run it's course. 

I'm really curious to see what Kirkman does now. So, I won't be dropping it.

----------


## DanMad1977

Without Rick i see sales dropping. For me it was always Ricks and to some extend Micchones story, so i will stay as long as its a good read. 

There was no need to kill him, he could have lived at the sidelines with other characters taking over the story.

----------


## Joker

I think that was largely already happening. 

After All Out War, Rick very much seemed to take a side role. He was still important in the community, but he was very much not the center of attention. It felt to me like Kirkman was setting this up for a while. So, I wasn't really surprised it happened.

----------


## SUPERECWFAN1

According to this...Negan will now take over as the lead character in comics. 

https://comicbook.com/thewalkingdead...obert-kirkman/

----------


## abysslord

> According to this...Negan will now take over as the lead character in comics. 
> 
> https://comicbook.com/thewalkingdead...obert-kirkman/


I took him saying that as a joke.  The book doesn't really have a main character anymore, even when Rick was alive.

----------


## your_name_here

Meh. This hasnt been great for quite some time. I felt indifferent to the main characters death, and that isnt how
I should be feeling.

----------


## abysslord

> Meh. This hasn’t been great for quite some time. I felt indifferent to the main characters death, and that isn’t how
> I should be feeling.


I agree.  I haven't really enjoyed reading the book much lately.  I feel like there are too many characters and some of them look very alike to where I don't really know who is who.  Then you get 1 page of characters F, G, then 1 page of characters L,M ...etc.  I'd rather get a big portion of a few characters then small portions of many characters.

----------


## Zero Hunter

It might be a good idea now for Carl to go out on his own away from the towns.  Sort of just have him go on a walkabout by himself to some places we have not seen yet to clear his head and let him deal and process what has happened.  Let him get back out there to the crazier parts of the world.  It would be a nice change of pace for a while.  Sort of like what Morgan did on Dear the Walking Dead show.

----------


## iron chimp

I've been enjoying the Commonwealth arc. I dropped off years ago but a binge reading of 50 issues and I was back in again. Rick was pretty much finished as a character - I still only half understand why he shot dwight and he was a proper mangy dog by the end.

What I dont understand about the series is that they just all seem to have given up wanting to find out what actually happened to create the walking dead in the first place. It's interesting to me seeing how different groups form and structure their communities but the dead are very much whatever now.

----------


## Elmo

Hey guys, I'm looking for a good jumping off point on this series to finish my collection. The last volume I have is 25 where Rick finds *spoilers:*
a bunch of chafacters' heads on pikes
*end of spoilers* . How many more trades do I have to buy for me to feel like I can jump off and feel a sense of closure for the characters and overall storyline?

----------


## numberthirty

> Hey guys, I'm looking for a good jumping off point on this series to finish my collection. The last volume I have is 25 where Rick finds *spoilers:*
> a bunch of chafacters' heads on pikes
> *end of spoilers* . How many more trades do I have to buy for me to feel like I can jump off and feel a sense of closure for the characters and overall storyline?


*That* overall story line, or the bigger picture story as a whole?

----------


## Elmo

> *That* overall story line, or the bigger picture story as a whole?


Bigger picture. I just want an ending for myself so I can move on. I love the series and it's been fun but I'm tired now

----------


## Morsoth

I would say #192 (Volume 32)... It's the end of a major character arc, and it's also the last issue of the 4th Compendium (I buy the compendium editions). Even the last frame of 192 feels like it's an ending (kind of).

If you are at Volume 25, that would mean to buy 7 more volumes (or just buy the 4th compendium which contains #145-192 - Volumes 25-32 - in October), and that's it.

----------


## Elmo

> I would say #192 (Volume 32)... It's the end of a major character arc, and it's also the last issue of the 4th Compendium (I buy the compendium editions). Even the last frame of 192 feels like it's an ending (kind of).
> 
> If you are at Volume 25, that would mean to buy 7 more volumes (or just buy the 4th compendium which contains #145-192 - Volumes 25-32 - in October), and that's it.


Thank you. I think I'll wait til year's end and finish the collection by then. Been collecting it for over a decade and it's been a great ride but emotionally I can only take so much, especially when it's a comic series over a television or film series. Something about it makes me feel more connected. Looking forward to finishing it up

----------


## Digifiend

Bleeding Cool is saying that the solicits for issues 194 and 195 are fake, and that 193 is the finale!
https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/07...-193-spoilers/

----------


## Maestro 216

> Bleeding Cool is saying that the solicits for issues 194 and 195 are fake, and that 193 is the finale!
> https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/07...-193-spoilers/


It's over like that?

----------


## Digifiend

Apparently so. Two days, we'll know for sure.

----------


## numberthirty

> It's over like that?


Take a close look at the #194/#195 solicits.

If it's not wrapping up at #193, it is the most brilliant curve ball in recent memory.

*Edit:*

That said, I honestly felt like it was going to be something like a couple of issues along the lines of the companion show and then wrap it up at #196/#197. Maybe set up a new ongoing.

Seems like I guessed incorrectly.

----------


## numberthirty

There is also this pair of Twitter posts. If it's not drawing to a close, it's a pretty great joke.

- https://twitter.com/RobertKirkman/st...57280370761728

- https://twitter.com/RobertKirkman/st...99958811107329

The comments section of that second one is kind of a chuckle.

*Note:*

Be forewarned that there is what might be a page scan in those comments that lets the cat all of the way out of the bag if it is on the level.

----------


## babyblob

Figures.  I just start reading this series.  36 issues in and it stops.  At least I can catch up now I guess.

I am a huge fan of the show.  Am five seasons in.  I love that the comics are so much different from the show.  I got into the show first and thought that the comics would be like it.  Thats why I didnt get into the comics for so long because I didnt want to read what I just watched.  But I can enjoy them both on their own merits and really love it.

----------


## Morsoth

My gosh! I only buy the Compendiums (but I own Here's Negan, the Survival Guide, and the FCBD special) but I'll take #193 for sure tomorrow.

That explains why Stefano Gaudiano's inking ended with issue #192… They wanted to keep the details of #193 for themselves (Robert Kirkman and Charlie Adlard).

----------


## Sacred Knight

It still sells pretty damn good right?  Guess Kirkman was just burned out.  Disappointing.  I think people were ready and willing to move on to Carl being the main character.

----------


## Zero Hunter

Seems like kind of a waste to end the series when issue 200 is so close.  If you want to end it 200 seems like a the perfect ending point to me, and it give you one last arc to really tie the series up.

----------


## your_name_here

I feel like it’s a series that could have ended quite some time ago. Ever since the end of “All Out War” I felt it’s just been meandering and not really knowing where to go.
That being said, it’s a damn good book and hats off to Kirkman for not going on just for the sake of going on.
With him finishing Invincible, Outcast and The Walking Dead that only leaves him Oblivion Song?

----------


## Comic-Reader Lad

Let's see what will happen to Image's market share once Walking Dead is gone.

In May 2019, the top 300 comics sold 6.56 million copies.  Image sold 349,917 comics in the Top 300, so Image's Top 300 market share was 5.33%.  This is confirmed by Comichron.com


OK, now let's remove May's Walking Dead 191, which sold 48,743 copies (representing almost 14% of Image's May Top 300 sales), from the May 2019 sales.

Image Top 300 sales is now 301,174 copies, and the Top 300 is now 6,511,257‬ copies, so Image's market share drops to 4.63%.



Image is still comfortably ahead of IDW and Dark Horse in terms of Top 300 market share, but losing 14% of your monthly sales is not good for any company, and I don't see anything on the horizon that could even remotely replace this.

I also wonder if the absence of Walking Dead will have an overall depressing effect on Image because people who looked at the Image section of the New Releases wall might just bypass it now that Walking Dead is no longer there.  So, this might hurt things overall even further.

----------


## numberthirty

> *Let's see what will happen to Image's market share once Walking Dead is gone.*
> 
> In May 2019, the top 300 comics sold 6.56 million copies.  Image sold 349,917 comics in the Top 300, so Image's Top 300 market share was 5.33%.  This is confirmed by Comichron.com
> 
> 
> OK, now let's remove May's Walking Dead 191, which sold 48,743 copies (representing almost 14% of Image's May Top 300 sales), from the May 2019 sales.
> 
> Image Top 300 sales is now 301,174 copies, and the Top 300 is now 6,511,257‬ copies, so Image's market share drops to 4.63%.
> 
> ...


This doesn't really amount to anything.

If you seriously believe that Image has any designs on having some degree of market share, you haven't been paying attention to how they actually operate.

Never mind that you have to ignore actual reality to entertain what is in green.

----------


## Digifiend

Yeah, Image is very much creator driven. Readers aren't loyal to the publisher, but to the writers. It's not like Marvel and DC.

----------


## Qwerty

Honestly this is a stroke of genius.  End it at a random number and continuing to solicit issues till the final one comes out was pretty brilliant.  I'm just sad someone spoiled it the day before.  I can't get my issue till next week but it would have been nice if they had kept it a surprise.  Ducking Bleeding Cool

----------


## Comic-Reader Lad

> This doesn't really amount to anything.
> 
> If you seriously believe that Image has any designs on having some degree of market share, you haven't been paying attention to how they actually operate.
> 
> Never mind that you have to ignore actual reality to entertain what is in green.



How Image "actually operates"? 

Hopefully, Image actually operates like a business that wishes to remain in business.

Losing 14% of your Top 300 sales is a big deal.  I didn't mean to imply that Image wants market share just for the bragging rights.  

The loss of Walking Dead coupled with Saga being on hiatus until Part 2 begins leaves major holes in Image's publishing schedule that are not so easily fixed.

The loss of Walking Dead bleeds out to the comics stores themselves who are now faced with the loss of the top selling Indie comic in an already down market.

----------


## Scott Taylor

We are not the Walking Dead taken quite literally. I like it.

But its a little confusing that none of the websites I visit for such things showed a Walking Dead issue coming out at all tomorrow. Hope my comic store ordered it!

----------


## numberthirty

> How Image "actually operates"? 
> 
> *Hopefully, Image actually operates like a business that wishes to remain in business.*
> 
> Losing 14% of your Top 300 sales is a big deal.  I didn't mean to imply that Image wants market share just for the bragging rights.  
> 
> The loss of Walking Dead coupled with Saga being on hiatus until Part 2 begins leaves major holes in Image's publishing schedule that are not so easily fixed.
> 
> The loss of Walking Dead bleeds out to the comics stores themselves who are now faced with the loss of the top selling Indie comic in an already down market.


Again, it seems like you have a lack of insight into how Image actually remains in business.

Being able to maintain the sales of titles independent of what any other title is doing it at the core of what they do in order to successfully remain is business. You seem to be operating under the flawed assumption that they are operating in the same fashion that DC/Marvel do.

Nothing could be further from the actual truth.

You are discussing holes that need to be "Fixed..." when the company operates in a fashion that makes whatever your believe needs to be "Fixed..." into an utter non-issue.

As for shops, titles have ended all throughout the history of the direct market. Accounting for that these shops managed to get by before the title we are discussing, I don't see things turning into the end of *The Wild Bunch* once this title comes to a close.

Never mind that it assumes that *The Walking Dead*  readers were making "Impulse..." entrances into reading other Image titles. Which is on incredibly shaky ground with no facts to point to it actually being the case.

----------


## Comic-Reader Lad

> Again, it seems like you have a lack of insight into how Image actually remains in business.
> 
> Being able to maintain the sales of titles independent of what any other title is doing it at the core of what they do in order to successfully remain is business. You seem to be operating under the flawed assumption that they are operating in the same fashion that DC/Marvel do.
> 
> Nothing could be further from the actual truth.
> 
> You are discussing holes that need to be "Fixed..." when the company operates in a fashion that makes whatever your believe needs to be "Fixed..." into an utter non-issue.
> 
> As for shops, titles have ended all throughout the history of the direct market. Accounting for that these shops managed to get by before the title we are discussing, I don't see things turning into the end of *The Wild Bunch* once this title comes to a close.
> ...




I am under the assumption that Image operates in the "fashion" of Gross Revenue minus Expenses equals Profit.  The way every other company on Planet Earth operates.  Less Revenue at the top line means less Profit at the bottom line.  This is bad for any company including Image.  There is no such thing as "It doesn't matter that we're taking in less Revenue."  It always matters.

The loss of Walking Dead might not affect the profitability of another title, but it does affect the profitability of the company as a whole.  Image, as a company, still has overhead -- company officer and staff salaries to pay, offices to rent, equipment to buy and maintain, etc.  A way to offset the loss in Revenue is to cut Expenses, which might mean job losses, salary freezes, and the like.

Any company that loses its best-selling product is going to be adversely affected.

On the other hand, if you have real details on the inner workings of Image that could allow it to lose its best-selling title and just go along as if nothing has happened, please feel free to share what you know.

----------


## numberthirty

> *I am under the assumption that Image operates in the "fashion" of Gross Revenue minus Expenses equals Profit.  The way every other company on Planet Earth operates.  Less Revenue at the top line means less Profit at the bottom line.  This is bad for any company including Image.  There is no such thing as "It doesn't matter that we're taking in less Revenue."  It always matters.
> 
> The loss of Walking Dead might not affect the profitability of another title, but it does affect the profitability of the company as a whole.  Image, as a company, still has overhead -- company officer and staff salaries to pay, offices to rent, equipment to buy and maintain, etc.  A way to offset the loss in Revenue is to cut Expenses, which might mean job losses, salary freezes, and the like.
> 
> Any company that loses its best-selling product is going to be adversely affected.*
> 
> On the other hand, if you have real details on the inner workings of Image that could allow it to lose its best-selling title and just go along as if nothing has happened, please feel free to share what you know.


Again, everything you are saying sounds like you are talking about DC/Marvel.

As for the real details, keep an eye on every day after tomorrow.

----------


## C_Miller

Yep. Numberthirty is 100% correct. Image is less a corporation and more a co-op for creators to produce their own work. The only person losing money on this is Robert Kirkman and Charlie Adlard. Image charges a flat fee for production and an "office" fee which covers their overhead. They make no more money on The Walking Dead as they do, I don't know Revival. Or Manifest Destiny or what have you, but they'll have another title to pay the fee right afterwards.

----------


## numberthirty

> Yep. Numberthirty is 100% correct. Image is less a corporation and more a co-op for creators to produce their own work. The only person losing money on this is Robert Kirkman and Charlie Adlard. Image charges a flat fee for production and an "office" fee which covers their overhead. They make no more money on The Walking Dead as they do, I don't know Revival. Or Manifest Destiny or what have you, but they'll have another title to pay the fee right afterwards.


In particular, the idea(which seems to be a part of the most likely non-existent "Issue" we are discussing...) that there is much of a "Image As A Publisher..." expense that needs to be maintained is something that I would doubt unless someone can point to an instance where it has been an issue.

Never mind the idea that losing a single title would make it more(or less) difficult for Image to maintain. For all we know, the company could lose a quarter of the titles it currently publishes and it would make no difference in it's ability to be able to make ends meet.

Let alone "Profitability..." When it comes to this company, it's almost hard not to laugh when someone brings that up while talking about Image.

----------


## numberthirty

> *I am under the assumption that Image operates in the "fashion" of Gross Revenue minus Expenses equals Profit.  The way every other company on Planet Earth operates.  Less Revenue at the top line means less Profit at the bottom line.*  This is bad for any company including Image.  There is no such thing as "It doesn't matter that we're taking in less Revenue."  It always matters.
> 
> The loss of Walking Dead might not affect the profitability of another title, but it does affect the profitability of the company as a whole.  Image, as a company, still has overhead -- company officer and staff salaries to pay, offices to rent, equipment to buy and maintain, etc.  A way to offset the loss in Revenue is to cut Expenses, which might mean job losses, salary freezes, and the like.
> 
> Any company that loses its best-selling product is going to be adversely affected.
> 
> On the other hand, if you have real details on the inner workings of Image that could allow it to lose its best-selling title and just go along as if nothing has happened, please feel free to share what you know.


Come to think of it, let's take just this and try to gauge how up to speed you are on Image and how they operate.

The title *Moonshine*. Tell me what you know about that title.

----------


## Dark-Flux

> I am under the assumption that Image operates in the "fashion" of Gross Revenue minus Expenses equals Profit.  The way every other company on Planet Earth operates.  Less Revenue at the top line means less Profit at the bottom line.  This is bad for any company including Image.  There is no such thing as "It doesn't matter that we're taking in less Revenue."  It always matters.
> 
> The loss of Walking Dead might not affect the profitability of another title, but it does affect the profitability of the company as a whole.  Image, as a company, still has overhead -- company officer and staff salaries to pay, offices to rent, equipment to buy and maintain, etc.  A way to offset the loss in Revenue is to cut Expenses, which might mean job losses, salary freezes, and the like.
> 
> Any company that loses its best-selling product is going to be adversely affected.
> 
> On the other hand, if you have real details on the inner workings of Image that could allow it to lose its best-selling title and just go along as if nothing has happened, please feel free to share what you know.


All Image books are creator-owned. Image just charge creators a flat fee to cover printing and admin costs, so in effect they make no more money off of sales of their best-selling title in floppies as they do their lowest.

----------


## Somecrazyaussie

I thought it was a joke. But once you get to the last page and you see a great big "The End" staring back at you, it hits you. Image if this had just come out with no one knowing it was the end? That is Bobby Ewing in the shower level surprise.

----------


## Dark-Flux

Have retailers not already put in orders for #194 and #195? Seems like a bit of a dick move to do a fake out.

----------


## The Ozman

I wish I hadn't heard the news yesterday, but even so that was still an emotional read - both the story itself and the letter from Kirkman at the end. I don't mind admitting I welled up a little. Twice.

So long to one of the best comics ever created, and much love and appreciation to everyone involved in putting it in our hands every month. Time to dust off the trades and start a re-read.

----------


## Jokerz79

> How Image "actually operates"? 
> 
> Hopefully, Image actually operates like a business that wishes to remain in business.
> 
> Losing 14% of your Top 300 sales is a big deal.  I didn't mean to imply that Image wants market share just for the bragging rights.  
> 
> The loss of Walking Dead coupled with Saga being on hiatus until Part 2 begins leaves major holes in Image's publishing schedule that are not so easily fixed.
> 
> The loss of Walking Dead bleeds out to the comics stores themselves who are now faced with the loss of the top selling Indie comic in an already down market.


Comic Stores will feel it starting with the last issue many would had ordered more if they knew just for those impulse buyers who hear Walking Dead is ending and thing is impulse buyers are just that impulse buyers they ain't coming back when the reorder eventually comes in.

----------


## Rich Johnston

> Honestly this is a stroke of genius.  End it at a random number and continuing to solicit issues till the final one comes out was pretty brilliant.  I'm just sad someone spoiled it the day before.  I can't get my issue till next week but it would have been nice if they had kept it a surprise.  Ducking Bleeding Cool


We ran the story with full spoiler warnings. 12 in fact.

----------


## RickWJ324

I have to say I've been a fan of the show but never read the comic (I intended to catch up on digital copies eventually but haven't done it yet).  I've never heard anything but good things about it and I'm sad to hear it's ending.

That said, I wish the show would come to an end.  It went from being one of my favorite shows to now I really could care less about it.  I will finish the series out of habit but honestly feel like it ran out of steam a long time ago.

Now if someone could talk Kirkman into reviving INVINCIBLE!!




> We ran the story with full spoiler warnings. 12 in fact.


Yep... can't fault Bleeding Cool for that!  They did spoiler it and it is NEWS.  I'm sure 100 other sites probably have it as well by now.

----------


## Captain M

I'm upset at this. I wish the final arc was better.

----------


## Captain M

I'm just not feeling any closure to majority of the characters, it doesn't feel planned at all. It's so abrupt.

----------


## MagSeven

> I'm just not feeling any closure to majority of the characters, it doesn't feel planned at all. It's so abrupt.


What closure were you missing? What questions did you have at the end? For me, I just wish we could have gotten more Negan before the end. All in all though, he wrapped things up pretty neatly for me. I also just wish it wasn't so abrupt. I was not ready for this ride to be over.

----------


## Joker

Well he did it. He ended it. 

I'll admit I was skeptical when I read the news. It felt abrupt, but I think he stuck the landing.

----------


## Zero Hunter

I liked the ending and it makes sense with the world they live in.  I always like it when a creator can end things on their own terms, and those are the kind of books that stand the test of time in the long run.  Thanks for all the memories Mr. Kirkman.

----------


## shooshoomanjoe

> Honestly this is a stroke of genius.  End it at a random number and continuing to solicit issues till the final one comes out was pretty brilliant.  I'm just sad someone spoiled it the day before.  I can't get my issue till next week but it would have been nice if they had kept it a surprise.  Ducking Bleeding Cool


Probably got the idea from when Malibu did it with Exiles back in the 90s.

----------


## Joker

It is a shame that we will never be able to have the intended experience.

----------


## Toxin45

I have seen some walking dead and still surprised it ended today. I liked the ending though and the amc tv show and movies are coming up so we still got that.

----------


## Morsoth

Ok! I've read it, and that was a great ending! I think Kirkman might still be able to do more comics if he ever want in 10-15 years. He can easily do a series dealing with the events in between 192-193. I know that now, he doesn't have any idea on how filling the gap, but by then, I might just came with a bright idea. And if it never happens, well, whatever! The novels are going to continue to develop the comic universe, and he might also decide to make more spin-off comics in the future. For now, it's over, and I liked it! That was a hell of a story!




> Thank you. I think I'll wait til year's end and finish the collection by then. Been collecting it for over a decade and it's been a great ride but emotionally I can only take so much, especially when it's a comic series over a television or film series. Something about it makes me feel more connected. Looking forward to finishing it up


Oh yeah, I've told you to end after #192... well, I guess it's #193 now...!

----------


## bomaya

Managed to read it without knowing the spoiler....I knew something BIG was happening but I was thinking of terrible ideas like the recent big death being a dream or something. Anyway, I was halfway through reading #193 and said to my girlfriend that it was strange...I couldn't tell how the story could continue now that things were so idyllic and walkers virtually wiped out so maybe chaos or a new threat was around the corner to start off this new arc. Then I got to the final few pages and finally wised up to what I was reading. Hit THE END and exclaimed my shock out loud. Amazingly ballsy for Kirkman to do this. So great that he can go with his instinct on things like this rather than just milk it forever. 

I much prefer this ending to the one he says thought about doing after #142.

----------


## DanMad1977

I read it without knowing that it would end, and i was shocked. 

After thinking about it for a while, i came to the conclusion that it was a great move to end it, before it gets sore. And after rereading the issue i will say, it was a good last issue. 

At least we know that it really ends. Would TWD be a Marvel book, it wouldnt have any impact whatsoever...

Damn, so many good stuff ending...TWD, Invincible, Mad Magazine, Inhumans (love them, but i know they will be back someday)

----------


## Cmbmool

I wonder what this series would have been if Tony Moore stayed the entire run of this epic series ?

----------


## Orion

I've been reading for 15 years and I thought the ending was great. I wish it would've happened after 25-75 more issues but they stuck the landing just the same.

----------


## Sacred Knight

Only kinda disappointing thing was how Herschel turned into a dick.  Glenn would not approve.  :Frown:   But on the other hand  it works in the sense that not everything turns out fairy-tale.  Just because these people were family to Glenn and Glenn was a great person unfortunately doesn't mean his son, of whom he had no influence on, would have to be the same way.

----------


## Jinjonator

I... honestly did not like the ending. I had heard the day before about 193 being a surprise ending, and I was curious how everything would get resolved, and deliver a satisfying conclusion to the whole series. Even with Rick having just died, I didn't get the feeling that the story was winding down, or nearing any kind of conclusion. It felt like there was still room to tell a lot more story, and show the continued effort to rebuild society, and the struggles re class inequality and such. So imagine my surprise when I started reading the final issue, only to find that Kirkman decided to just... skip all that. Like suddenly civilization is all rebuilt and life is swell and Rick Grimes is Jesus Christ, because he, uh, gave a cool speech? Like it looks like the overwhelming majority of the progress made in rebuilding society and reconnecting everyone and rebuilding the previous institutions happened after Rick died, so when everyone kept saying "rick grimes is the only reason anybody in the country (world?) is alive today, without him all would be lost", it felt like they were referring to events which... did not happen? Because Rick was already dead? Like, ok, he co-opted some communities other people had already formed and gave inspirational speeches, but that doesn't really translate to the messianic figure he's suddenly portrayed as. (The implication that Rick Grimes was canonically the only human being in the entire United States, and I guess possibly also the world, who was inspirational and a good leader is, uh, weird; like yes he was a good leader and a good person throughout the story, but the time-jump and the ending blow anything he actually did out of proportion, like he was a real credit to the sections of Georgia that the story takes place in, but he didn't end the zombie menace or rebuild society)

Also, I'm 100% fine with happy endings, but... this one didn't feel earned. Which is surprising, because I would've thought, if any story would be able to earn a happy ending, it'd be this one. For awhile, Kirkman seemed like he was actually committed to detailing the struggles of rebuilding society. But then he just skips everything and goes "and then after the sad thing, everyone became super cool and rebuilt society, take my word for it, and some people are dicks, but basically they lived happily ever after". It's honestly hard to believe this was planned, because everything about this, from the lame and anticlimactic way Rick was killed by some loser, to the massive time-jump and literal storybook ending, felt like the incredibly rushed ending of someone who just wanted the end the story as soon as possible and literally didn't care about anything else. It almost feels like you could've had a version of this exact same ending happen at literally any point throughout the series, and it would make equal sense. "[insert any community here] has potential, and we can rebuild, and start society anew!" speech, resident douchebag kills him, time-jump, dream embodied by that community is fulfilled. 

I mean, at least it wasn't as bad as Game of Thrones. But this seems to be a year of disappointments.

----------


## GOLGO 13

Well, it was a nice ending.

That said, I dislike the time jumps that SEEMS like a rush to end it.  Seems like there's a LOT of potential story to fill in the blanks from 192-193.   I get that he's super hot right now & that the time to make a bigger move is when your hot.  Just how it seems to me.  

Meh.

----------


## babyblob

> I have seen some walking dead and still surprised it ended today. I liked the ending though and the abc tv show and movies are coming up so we still got that.


What abc show?

----------


## Toxin45

We are getting a 10th season and three movies dude so more adaptions of the walking dead.

----------


## Dark-Flux

> We are getting a 10th season and three movies dude so more adaptions of the walking dead.


I think he was alluding to it being AMC, not ABC.

----------


## Toxin45

> I think he was alluding to it being AMC, not ABC.


Oh sorry I misspelled that.

----------


## Orion

I think the idea is that we have been spending years and years watching society come back, and specifically Rick guide and shape society coming back. Each group, each community Rick encountered and joined and lead were the steps on the path you feel was skipped. Hell, readers were *already* giving him nonstop shit about his constant focus on society-building over dumb zombie action. 

I think Kirkman saw the Commonwealth as that final group Rick encounters, that last stepping stone to reach the society they've all been looking for and trying to achieve. Of course it took Rick to "lead" this group too and change it to his own vision, and connect it with all of his other groups in order to reach that stable society they all wanted. But they were almost there. The leader of the commonwealth wasn't The Governor or Negan. With Rick's version of the commonwealth, plus the other communities, plus Eugene's railroad project I believe the place Kirkman took us was far along enough to justify the ending. 

Now I agree with you that ideally there should have been more. Stuff got glossed over or set aside. I would've liked to have seen 12-24 more issues to further flesh all this out, and I'm betting Kirkman did have content for at least 6-12 more issues, but he didn't have content for 48 more issues, and (hilariously) rather than orphaning the last Compendium, he cut things a smidgen short. 




> I... honestly did not like the ending. I had heard the day before about 193 being a surprise ending, and I was curious how everything would get resolved, and deliver a satisfying conclusion to the whole series. Even with Rick having just died, I didn't get the feeling that the story was winding down, or nearing any kind of conclusion. It felt like there was still room to tell a lot more story, and show the continued effort to rebuild society, and the struggles re class inequality and such. So imagine my surprise when I started reading the final issue, only to find that Kirkman decided to just... skip all that. Like suddenly civilization is all rebuilt and life is swell and Rick Grimes is Jesus Christ, because he, uh, gave a cool speech? Like it looks like the overwhelming majority of the progress made in rebuilding society and reconnecting everyone and rebuilding the previous institutions happened after Rick died, so when everyone kept saying "rick grimes is the only reason anybody in the country (world?) is alive today, without him all would be lost", it felt like they were referring to events which... did not happen? Because Rick was already dead? Like, ok, he co-opted some communities other people had already formed and gave inspirational speeches, but that doesn't really translate to the messianic figure he's suddenly portrayed as. (The implication that Rick Grimes was canonically the only human being in the entire United States, and I guess possibly also the world, who was inspirational and a good leader is, uh, weird; like yes he was a good leader and a good person throughout the story, but the time-jump and the ending blow anything he actually did out of proportion, like he was a real credit to the sections of Georgia that the story takes place in, but he didn't end the zombie menace or rebuild society)
> 
> Also, I'm 100% fine with happy endings, but... this one didn't feel earned. Which is surprising, because I would've thought, if any story would be able to earn a happy ending, it'd be this one. For awhile, Kirkman seemed like he was actually committed to detailing the struggles of rebuilding society. But then he just skips everything and goes "and then after the sad thing, everyone became super cool and rebuilt society, take my word for it, and some people are dicks, but basically they lived happily ever after". It's honestly hard to believe this was planned, because everything about this, from the lame and anticlimactic way Rick was killed by some loser, to the massive time-jump and literal storybook ending, felt like the incredibly rushed ending of someone who just wanted the end the story as soon as possible and literally didn't care about anything else. It almost feels like you could've had a version of this exact same ending happen at literally any point throughout the series, and it would make equal sense. "[insert any community here] has potential, and we can rebuild, and start society anew!" speech, resident douchebag kills him, time-jump, dream embodied by that community is fulfilled. 
> 
> I mean, at least it wasn't as bad as Game of Thrones. But this seems to be a year of disappointments.

----------


## KROENEN

I felt like I would have enjoyed the original ending he had planned, just not on the issue he had planned it.  I enjoy the idea of a bleak, nihilistic ending  where the living dead win; seems more keeping with the horror legacy of Romero's series, like maybe how Day of the Dead ends with them simply moving on an island and not worrying about saving humanity or understanding the plague.  And even after reading the entire series since the beginning I don't buy all the post-mortem Rick praise, seemed pretty heavy handed and hollow.

----------


## GOLGO 13

> I felt like I would have enjoyed the original ending he had planned, just not on the issue he had planned it.  I enjoy the idea of a bleak, nihilistic ending  where the living dead win; seems more keeping with the horror legacy of Romero's series, like maybe how Day of the Dead ends with them simply moving on an island and not worrying about saving humanity or understanding the plague.  And even after reading the entire series since the beginning I don't buy all the post-mortem Rick praise, seemed pretty heavy handed and hollow.


The only problem with this is that it really ends the entire TWD universe once & for all, right? 

With this ending he could revisit & jumpstart the entire thing with a new cast of characters/location reacting to a new walker-infection.  Maybe even do a story anthology series with different writers/artists.  Many years passed by from 192-193.  Lot of potential for future stories still with this ending.  

Remember, he did say that, Neagan lives, yes?

----------


## KROENEN

I'm fine with it ending here.

If they did pick up a different story during that time lapse it kind of loses the traditional Walking Dead narrative of following survivors right from the beginning of the zombie apocalypse.  I remember Kirkman saying he was disappointed when a Romero Living Dead movie ended because he wanted to know what happen to the survivors after the end credits.  He wanted to keep following them to their _actual_ end; so it kind of makes sense for the comic series to end the way it did with Rick passing.  I really wouldn't be interested in a spin-off that took place in the middle of the "trials"; I'm fine with definitive endings, I just wish it ended on more of a dire, non-optimistic note, something more keeping with Romero's movies and the horror traditions at large; the idea that society is pretty much doomed to failure in the wake of the living dead, which was how Kirk was originally going to end it. If they do a spin-off comic series about zombies just call it something else....

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## Toxin45

Maybe focus on self aware zombies like zombiland saga?

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## stwaz

> Only kinda disappointing thing was how Herschel turned into a dick.  Glenn would not approve.   But on the other hand  it works in the sense that not everything turns out fairy-tale.  Just because these people were family to Glenn and Glenn was a great person unfortunately doesn't mean his son, of whom he had no influence on, would have to be the same way.


I liked the scene where Herschel confronts Carl towards the end. It made him less of a dick, I think, to hear why he was doing what he was doing. I believe it made Carl think differently about him as well.

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## stwaz

I don't remember exactly when I started reading Walking Dead, but it must have been sometime during 2010 or early 2011. One of the guys at my comic shop told me I should try it out, and it was when they were doing the Image #1's for a buck, so what did I have to lose. I was hooked after that first issue and I started getting the collected volumes from the library. Once I ran out of the volumes at the library, I would buy 2 or 3 volumes at a time when they were on sale. I started buying it monthly with A Larger World, issue 93 and never stopped until 193. When I think back over everything that happened to Rick and Carl and all the others, it was an amazing roller coaster ride. Shock and horror followed by periods of peace and boredom followed by a bigger shock and the "bad guys", followed by more horror and unrest and then relative peace and boredom. Just like real life.

Unlike the Marvel comics I read, the consequences in this book were real. The losses were real and the deaths stuck. Rick lost his hand. Carl his eye. Lori and Judith killed brutally. Tyreese beheaded. Ezekiel beheaded. Rosita beheaded. Lots of beheadings, in retrospect. The cannibals. The Governor's twisted violence. Glenn's horrific murder followed by Negan's brutal rule and defeat and imprisonment and redemption(?). The Whisperer's effed up ways. And the festering from within which was sometimes worse than the actual bad guys. It was what got Shane and Dwight killed, and what ultimately killed Rick. The actual walking dead had nothing on the human's brutality towards their fellow humans.

But there was beauty and hope as well. I thought Andrea's death was handled respectfully. Rick sparing Negan ushering in a new era of order. I thought Michonne reuniting with Elodie was sweet. I loved the late addition of Princess (I'll maybe miss her potential future stories the most!) and I hope we meet her on the show (I'm a little behind, on season 9 so they may have already for all I know.). The loving relationships of Michonne & Ezekiel, Maggie & Glenn, Rick & Andrea, Jesus & Aaron, Magna & Yumiko.

My only complaint, is as the series went on, I couldn't connect with the growing cast of characters. I wish he'd kept the cast a little tighter. He'd introduce a new character, and then they'd be relegated to the background, and I had a hard time remembering who was who. To be honest, I had to scratch my head on who Earl was in the final issue, and why he was significant.

I, for one, loved the ending. I love that it was not a happy ending per se, but a realistic ending. Rick's death was unexpected and upsetting, but Carl surviving (and thriving) is what Rick fought for the entire series. So I guess in that respect, it really was a happy ending. I thought he touched on each main character just enough. Princess and Mercer together was a nice surprise. Carl and Sophia together was exquisite. Herschel being an a-hole was a bummer, but I liked his explanation to Carl towards the end of the book. Eugene still being Eugene was perfect. Michonne and Maggie running things, seemed appropriate. Magna & Yumiko and Jesus & Aaron seem to still be together and happy. Seeing Pamela visiting Sebastian felt like closure. Even Lydia had a nice wrap up to her story. I guess I would have liked a substantial Negan scene...but his ending felt somehow right too.

I'm also glad Kirkman went out on his own terms. There were times the book felt stale, but then it would get interesting again. I think he just wanted to stop before it felt permanently stale. I respect that. I read the entire run of Invincible. I've been reading Oblivion Song since it debuted and I'm really enjoying that. I started Outcast, but fell off after a year and a half. I may go back and finish it at some point. So, without really trying, I'm kind of a Kirkman fan, I guess. I enjoy his storytelling, and I will miss this world and these characters. Yes, we still have the shows and I enjoy them, but I'm a bigger TWD comic fan than I am a show fan. And with so many of the main comic characters gone from the show, it's starting to feel like something else entirely.

Anyway, I felt like I had to write something about the end of The Walking Dead, so I'm happy to have this forum to do so. The arc of the entire story is mind-blowing. To watch society completely broken down and see what it took to build it up again, I wonder if Kirkman isn't some kind of soothsayer. It almost feels like, with the way our society is now, after some sort of apocalypse, it could go exactly the way Kirkman wrote it. I hope not, but in the end, humanity does come together to build a new livable society, and maybe something even a little better than before.

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## Scott Taylor

> I felt like I would have enjoyed the original ending he had planned, just not on the issue he had planned it.  I enjoy the idea of a bleak, nihilistic ending  where the living dead win; seems more keeping with the horror legacy of Romero's series, like maybe how Day of the Dead ends with them simply moving on an island and not worrying about saving humanity or understanding the plague.  And even after reading the entire series since the beginning I don't buy all the post-mortem Rick praise, seemed pretty heavy handed and hollow.


Same for me, exactly. I liked Rick and everything, but turning him into a messiah type and then having society rebuilt was really not in keeping with the tone of the entire series. This felt like, dare I say, fan fiction. It was almost the same concept as Day of the Dead - but without any of the desperation or despair elements. Just kind of hollow as an ending to this epic series.

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## iron chimp

Finally caught up.

Ended like a corny kids film for me - could have said something thought provoking on human but just meandered towards some bland conclusions.

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## KROENEN

> Same for me, exactly. I liked Rick and everything, but turning him into a messiah type and then having society rebuilt was really not in keeping with the tone of the entire series. This felt like, dare I say, fan fiction. It was almost the same concept as Day of the Dead - but without any of the desperation or despair elements. Just kind of hollow as an ending to this epic series.


I feel like the Walking Dead ended up being the thematic opposite of the Living Dead movies.  *Day of the Dead* embraced an almost nihilistic acceptance that society would not be rebuilt and that they would never understand the plague or overcome the dead, that whatever they did it would make little difference; it stood completely against the 80's optimism of everyone is special and could change the world.  The Walking Dead is kind of saying it just takes one man to turn it all around no matter how desperate everything seems.  It's overly optimistic, almost to the point where it ceases being about horror and more about leaving everyone with the "feel goods" at the end.  The more I think about it the more I really dislike it...

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## iron chimp

> I feel like the Walking Dead ended up being the thematic opposite of the Living Dead movies.  *Day of the Dead* embraced an almost nihilistic acceptance that society would not be rebuilt and that they would never understand the plague or overcome the dead, that whatever they did it would make little difference; it stood completely against the 80's optimism of everyone is special and could change the world.  The Walking Dead is kind of saying it just takes one man to turn it all around no matter how desperate everything seems.  It's overly optimistic, almost to the point where it ceases being about horror and more about leaving everyone with the "feel goods" at the end.  The more I think about it the more I really dislike it...


Its optimistic in a really odd way tho - we see a society that's gone from what was basically a commune under Rick to a capitalist society with money, private property, and presumably taxes to pay for railroad and a world where you get preferential treatment from law if you know right people. That could have been presented as humanity slipping back into pre apocalyptic status quo but instead was seen as a sign of hope even when at certain points in story (esp. with Michonne) that pre apocalyptic world was a time when people never truly lived. 

It was a woolly fluffed ending for me. A big point could have been made but was avoided

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## KROENEN

> Its optimistic in a really odd way tho - we see a society that's gone from what was basically a commune under Rick to a capitalist society with money, private property, and presumably taxes to pay for railroad and a world where you get preferential treatment from law if you know right people. That could have been presented as humanity slipping back into pre apocalyptic status quo but instead was seen as a sign of hope even when at certain points in story (esp. with Michonne) that pre apocalyptic world was a time when people never truly lived. 
> 
> It was a woolly fluffed ending for me. A big point could have been made but was avoided


I agree, part of what made Romero's movies compelling to me was the idea that society was basically doomed to fail; doomed to repeat the same mistakes over and over.  The Living Dead were the new status quo, not something to be overcome, but rather the new accepted state of the world.

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## thetrellan

> I felt like I would have enjoyed the original ending he had planned, just not on the issue he had planned it.  I enjoy the idea of a bleak, nihilistic ending  where the living dead win; seems more keeping with the horror legacy of Romero's series, like maybe how Day of the Dead ends with them simply moving on an island and not worrying about saving humanity or understanding the plague.  And even after reading the entire series since the beginning I don't buy all the post-mortem Rick praise, seemed pretty heavy handed and hollow.


Under Rick's leadership, several communities were freed from despotism and joined a larger community forged by his people, then made contact with another large community, and was instrumental in staving off a revolt.  Then he died, and in dying was honored by both communities as it founder.  Can you say that Washington really did more?  I think not.  GW was just a General.

Yeah, it totally rings true to me.  Rick's death was the cement that held everything together.  It makes sense.

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## babyblob

I am just now on Issue 81.  Am looking forward to seeing how they get all the roamers away from the fence.  This series has been really good and I am glad I started to read it.  I love it much more then the tv show.  

I havnt read the issue yet but I have no problem with Rick dying.  Kinda like Mosses.  Lead his people to the promised land but not destined to live there.

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