# Comics  > Batman >  Damian Wayne Robin Appreciation 2021

## dietrich

Link to 2020 and previous Appreciation threads  https://community.cbr.com/showthread...reciation-2020

Happy 2021 Everyone. What do you think is in store for Damian Wayne this Year?

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## Fergus

Happy New Year Everyone.

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## Frontier

Happy New Year to Damian and all his fans  :Smile: .

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## Fergus

> Happy 2021 Everyone. What do you think is in store for Damian Wayne this Year?


I don't know. I'm not good with predictions so I'll just go with the obvious.

With Snyder and Tynion still calling the shots as DC's big sellers I predict more undermi9ning  and more attempts to replace him with Pets and characters they stan. You the the same thing they've been doing since Snyder took over the Batman title years back.

Damian will continue being Robin regardless
DCeased part 3, More Supersons but I don't see an ongoing in the works just yet.
I also predict animated Damian will be back as will Damian and Raven despite the best efforts of Supersons fans.

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## Fergus

What are people's thoughts on this? fans be crazy.

Someone changed the Supersons Wiki. On the damian Wayne Spanish Wiki, Jon is listed as his wife

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## dietrich

> What are people's thoughts on this? fans be crazy.
> 
> Someone changed the Supersons Wiki. On the damian Wayne Spanish Wiki, Jon is listed as his wife


fans be Crazy indeed. That's just creepy.

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## dietrich

> I don't know. I'm not good with predictions so I'll just go with the obvious.
> 
> With Snyder and Tynion still calling the shots as DC's big sellers I predict more undermi9ning  and more attempts to replace him with Pets and characters they stan. You the the same thing they've been doing since Snyder took over the Batman title years back.
> 
> Damian will continue being Robin regardless
> DCeased part 3, More Supersons but I don't see an ongoing in the works just yet.
> I also predict animated Damian will be back as will Damian and Raven despite the best efforts of Supersons fans.


I also predict the return of Injustice Damian, dick and Damian getting a reunion curtesy of Taylor.

I don't see an ongoing. Don't think anyone in the Batfamily is getting one aside from Dick [lets face it Dick and Babs are the only ones who've managed to carry a solo since rebirth]

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## Astralabius

> Happy 2021 Everyone. What do you think is in store for Damian Wayne this Year?


Happy new year

Not really a prediction, I just hope that DC will do Damian and Talia more justice than they did in the past.
Damian reconnecting with his mother has a lot of potential if DC doesn't treat them as villains.
I think most of us had enough of that.

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## Astralabius

> What are people's thoughts on this? fans be crazy.
> 
> Someone changed the Supersons Wiki. On the damian Wayne Spanish Wiki, Jon is listed as his wife


I don't ship them, but even if I did I wouldn't agree with something like this. People can have their headcanons, but maybe they should keep in mind that it's just that, headcanons.

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## Astralabius

> I also predict the return of Injustice Damian, dick and Damian getting a reunion curtesy of Taylor.
> 
> I don't see an ongoing. Don't think anyone in the Batfamily is getting one aside from Dick [lets face it Dick and Babs are the only ones who've managed to carry a solo since rebirth]


There is nothing confirmed yet, but Gleb Melnikov (or maybe it was Joshua Williamson) did say on twitter that the back up stories would lead to something bigger. Which is not suprising considering that the 20 pages Damian's back up stories will have combined are not enough space to tell a lot of story. It all sounds like a set up for a bigger storyline.

Gleb seems to be working on Damian even after the back up stories and he also confirmed only a little while ago that he's working on a cover for *****#1.
Nothing is confirmed, but I also wouldn't say it's impossible for Damian to get an ongoing.

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## dietrich

> Happy new year
> 
> Not really a prediction, I just hope that DC will do Damian and Talia more justice than they did in the past.
> Damian reconnecting with his mother has a lot of potential if DC doesn't treat them as villains.
> I think most of us had enough of that.



Agree. Taylor did Mama Talia and Damian some justice. I think I'm ready for positive Talia and Damian. Used to be a fan of super-villainous Talia but DC never did her Justice. Bendis especially turned her mediocre

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## Restingvoice

LMAO okay didn't expect that to be the first pic on the thread
That kind of edit happens a lot... sometimes... once or twice
It is kind of a shipper joke. They're usually gone within a day. People just wait to see how long before someone notice and edit it back.  So enjoy it while you can
...
I'm saving it

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## the1&onlyE.

> Happy 2021 Everyone. What do you think is in store for Damian Wayne this Year?


Happy New Year!  :Smile:  I think a part 3 of DCeased is definitely a possibility later in the year, and, contrary to most people, I do think there's a strong possibility Damian will be in an book. And I'm also really excited to finally find out what happened with him in Future State, because I've been wondering since they announced it.

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## dietrich

> There is nothing confirmed yet, but Gleb Melnikov (or maybe it was Joshua Williamson) did say on twitter that the back up stories would lead to something bigger. Which is not suprising considering that the 20 pages Damian's back up stories will have combined are not enough space to tell a lot of story. It all sounds like a set up for a bigger storyline.
> 
> Gleb seems to be working on Damian even after the back up stories and he also confirmed only a little while ago that he's working on a cover for *****#1.
> Nothing is confirmed, but I also wouldn't say it's impossible for Damian to get an ongoing.


I hope so but DC seems to be going for saver menu [unproven/fresh cheap talent and slashed no of on-going's]
Odd choices when it comes to approving pitches [I'm not Starfire. Just why?, Tim drake as Robin but not? Red Hood and Grifter both in the Batfamily corner of titles?]

Damian has good sales but lets be honest, DC plays favourites and Damian isn't high on that list. 

I don't want to get my hopes up. DC messed too much with Damian during Rebirth. They really did him dirty.

I hope you are proven correct and Damian gets a title.

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## Restingvoice

I'll start with some of Damian's Classic Hits: 
"Father I imagined you taller"
"Don't patronize me or I'll break your face"
"WHERE'S MY LAPTOP"
JUL060136_1._SX1280_QL80_TTD_.jpg

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## adrikito

This is weird... Not Robin appreciation??  :Confused:  Only Damian Wayne?  :Frown: 

I would had added Robin and maybe even Batman(as reference to another universes) appreciation..

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## dietrich

> Happy New Year!  I think a part 3 of DCeased is definitely a possibility later in the year, and, contrary to most people, I do think there's a strong possibility Damian will be in an book. And I'm also really excited to finally find out what happened with him in Future State, because I've been wondering since they announced it.


Also curious to find out what happened to him. It's so strange that he's absent from it all. What is Dc thinking? It's like they hate money and success

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## dietrich

> This is weird... Not Robin appreciation?? Only Damian Wayne?


I felt Damian doesn't need all that. Everyone knows Damian is also Robin. I know the other threads have alias but do they need them? We all know their history plus i was in a hurry

I don't know if I can edit the title but can try and Robin if you like?

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## the1&onlyE.

> I'll start with some of Damian's Classic Hits: 
> "Father I imagined you taller"
> "Don't patronize me or I'll break your face"
> "WHERE'S MY LAPTOP"
> Attachment 103815


I looove, Batman and Son. It's really sad that some people don't appreciate it just because of what happened to Tim - though, to be fair, it that happened with my fave I would be pretty pissed too. Personally, I think it's great, hilarious, over the top and a pretty unique introduction.




> Also curious to find out what happened to him. It's so strange that he's absent from it all. What is Dc thinking? It's like they hate money and success


I mean, something definitely happened to him, but it's very weird. I think he was obviously meant to be a villain in 5G, but it seems even DC realized fans weren't very pleased with this direction, so maybe they changed direction? Or he might still be a villain, who knows, though, based on Tims line in Robin Eternal, it doesnt seem like it.

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## Astralabius

> I hope so but DC seems to be going for saver menu [unproven/fresh cheap talent and slashed no of on-going's]
> Odd choices when it comes to approving pitches [I'm not Starfire. Just why?, Tim drake as Robin but not? Red Hood and Grifter both in the Batfamily corner of titles?]
> 
> Damian has good sales but lets be honest, DC plays favourites and Damian isn't high on that list. 
> 
> I don't want to get my hopes up. DC messed too much with Damian during Rebirth. They really did him dirty.
> 
> I hope you are proven correct and Damian gets a title.


Can't fault you for that, before the solicitations for March came out I felt pretty disappointed and hopeless myself. Yeah, we got that arc in Detective Comics, but with Tomasi leaving the book I was kinda expecting for Damian to get stuck in limbo for some time since the Batman books pretty much ignored him for the past few years.

The announcement of the back up stories and Gleb's tweets gave me some hope again that if nothing else DC must have put at least a little thought into this, which is more than I can say for the past 2-3 years.

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## Morgoth

I think he's either dead or in the League of Assassins. I'm sure he had something to do with Magistrate initially, but then they changed plans because of the fans backlash. And they could not leave everything as it is, because they present the Future State as a future that is possible, even if it does not come true eventually. Most likely for this reason Damian is not here, they simply did not have time or did not know what to do with him here.
Regarding predictions, it's hard to say. On the one hand, I am sure that nothing drastically bad will happen to him, because, as I understand it, the reaction to Glass's TT clearly influenced the plans for Damian. They had a chance to do something bad to him, send him down the path of a villain or something else, but in the end they changed direction, that is, there is simply no point in going back to it now. On top of that, Williamson loves Damian, and if he really writes his ongoing after the back-ups, that's very good news. And he's even on the cover of Infinity Frontier, that's a good sign too.
On the other hand, DC always know how to somehow unpleasantly surprise.

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## Astralabius

> Also curious to find out what happened to him. It's so strange that he's absent from it all. What is Dc thinking? It's like they hate money and success


DC seems to want to keep that a secret for now.
In the preview for Robin Eternal Tim tells us that Dick is "ranting and raving" in Arkham (which apparently isn't exactly true, so maybe Tim doesn't know everything), Jason betrayed them to work for the people that killed Bruce and when he's about to talk about Damian he conveniently stops to throw a bomb. It's just "Damian...". I'm pretty sure that's on purpose.

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## Fergus

> I'll start with some of Damian's Classic Hits: 
> "Father I imagined you taller"
> "Don't patronize me or I'll break your face"
> "WHERE'S MY LAPTOP"
> Attachment 103815


He's such a little shit and in the best possible way. I normally hate kid characters like this but Damian is so much fun and funny with it. But it's not just his way with words or attitude. He's also very interesting. His journey has been a joy. I hope we get more development and growth form the character..

I need more Damian and Drake. not the hair ruffling pod people that Tynion gave us in Rebirth Tec but this pair.

Damian trolling Tim into almost throttling him

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## adrikito

> I felt Damian doesn't need all that. Everyone knows Damian is also Robin. I know the other threads have alias but do they need them? We all know their history plus i was in a hurry
> 
> I don't know if I can edit the title but can try and Robin if you like?


OK.. Don´t worry about it.


I think that is not possible. I think that I tried it once and failed.. Maybe only Frontier and other admins can make it.

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## Fergus

I think Future State was all crafted around the time when some where attempting to get rid of Damian and replace him [think BRE/RSOB era] but plans changed so now they are scrambling.

He wasn't a part of the initial plans clearly. I just hope however they explain his absence they make it a good one.

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## the1&onlyE.

> I think he's either dead or in the League of Assassins. I'm sure he had something to do with Magistrate initially, but then they changed plans because of the fans backlash. And they could not leave everything as it is, because they present the Future State as a future that is possible, even if it does not come true eventually. Most likely for this reason Damian is not here, they simply did not have time or did not know what to do with him here.
> Regarding predictions, it's hard to say. On the one hand, I am sure that nothing drastically bad will happen to him, because, as I understand it, the reaction to Glass's TT clearly influenced the plans for Damian. They had a chance to do something bad to him, send him down the path of a villain or something else, but in the end they changed direction, that is, there is simply no point in going back to it now. On top of that, Williamson loves Damian, and if he really writes his ongoing after the back-ups, that's very good news. And he's even on the cover of Infinity Frontier, that's a good sign too.
> On the other hand, DC always know how to somehow unpleasantly surprise.


Yeah, I honestly think Damian might just be dead in FS or something like that. I do wonder though, if they made all of that just so that he couldn't be Batman in the future, which, to me, seems really over the top. There's just so many ways of doing it, no need to ruin a character for that. 

And I also get the feeling Williamson likes Damian, which is honestly a huge relieve. But I gotta admit that he being in Infinite Frontier gives me some flashbacks of No Justice, and we all know how well that one ended. lol But Williamson is a good writer, so I have hope.

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## Astralabius

> I think Future State was all crafted around the time when some where attempting to get rid of Damian and replace him [think BRE/RSOB era] but plans changed so now they are scrambling.
> 
> He wasn't a part of the initial plans clearly. I just hope however they explain his absence they make it a good one.


5G (FS seems to be what 5G turned into after they scrapped it) was Dan Didio's baby, wasn't it?
Maybe I remember this wrong, but Rebirth was Geoff Johns' idea and since he stepped down in 2018 Dan Didio was completely in charge of DC's direction. 2018 was also the year Dick got shot, Jason had his falling out with Bruce and Glass took over Teen Titans. So at least to me it sounds more like they were preparing for 5G only since 2018.

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## Astralabius

> Yeah, I honestly think Damian might just be dead in FS or something like that. I do wonder though, if they made all of that just so that he couldn't be Batman in the future, which, to me, seems really over the top. There's just so many ways of doing it, no need to ruin a character for that. 
> 
> And I also get the feeling Williamson likes Damian, which is honestly a huge relieve. But I gotta admit that he being in Infinite Frontier gives me some flashbacks of No Justice, and we all know how well that one ended. lol But Williamson is a good writer, so I have hope.


I wouldn't be suprised if they wanted Damian as a supervillain so the person who took over the cowl could have a "Batman shouldn't be inherited, it should be earned" arc.
Basically a foil to the next Batman to highlight how much more worthy than Damian Bruce's replacement is because DC knows a lot of people are annoyed that they didn't pick one of the many sidekicks Bruce has as his successor.

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## the1&onlyE.

> I wouldn't be suprised if they wanted Damian as a supervillain so the person who took over the cowl could have a "Batman shouldn't be inherited, it should be earned" arc.
> Basically a foil to the next Batman to highlight how much more worthy than Damian Bruce's replacement is because DC knows a lot of people are annoyed that they didn't pick one of the many sidekicks Bruce has as his successor.


Honestly, makes sense. Also considering how Dan Didio loves legacy characters and, as someone pointed out, uses Damian to create drama for Bruce, it's not suprising at all. Now that he is gone, at least, I feel the aproach to a lot of characters will change, and hopefully Damian will be one of them.

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## Blue22

Ah, new year. New thread. Glad things are finally looking pretty good for my second youngest "son". Honestly things are looking good for all my favorites but Jon. 

Bart's apparently still gonna be around in Flash books. Gar had a GREAT moment in Death Metal and DC seems to have finally embraced the fact that he's just as much an adult as the other veteran Titans. And Damian seems to be on a path that, while not the one I would have wanted for him just yet, is still a lot better than where he was with the Teen Titans. Added bonus: He gets an awesome new costume.

So far so good. I'm not really all that interested in any Future State books, save for Titans and Wonder Woman, so I don't really have anything more than a mild curiosity as to where Damian is in those stories. So once all that's over and done with, here's hoping he has a bright year ahead of him.

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## Frontier

> I looove, Batman and Son. It's really sad that some people don't appreciate it just because of what happened to Tim - though, to be fair, it that happened with my fave I would be pretty pissed too. Personally, I think it's great, hilarious, over the top and a pretty unique introduction.


Tim got his payback as Red Robin. I'd say they're about even now.

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## OopsIdiditagain

> I felt Damian doesn't need all that. Everyone knows Damian is also Robin. I know the other threads have alias but do they need them? We all know their history plus i was in a hurry
> 
> I don't know if I can edit the title but can try and Robin if you like?


he might get a new name anyway

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## Rac7d*

> This is weird... Not Robin appreciation??  Only Damian Wayne? 
> 
> I would had added Robin and maybe even Batman(as reference to another universes) appreciation..


Yeah thats odd ???

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## Astralabius

> he might get a new name anyway


Maybe, but the other appreciation threads list all the major identities of the characters, no matter if they're still going by that name or not.

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## Konja7

> he might get a new name anyway


As it was mentioned, the appreciation thread include past identities too. 

That said, even Tynion still call him Robin for the back-up in March. So, I'm not so sure he will left Robin identity at the end.

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## Rac7d*

> As it was mentioned, the appreciation thread include past identities too. 
> 
> That said, even Tynion still call him Robin for the back-up in March. So, I'm not so sure he will left Robin identity at the end.


If we get a new name we
Can just make a new thread

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## the1&onlyE.

> Tim got his payback as Red Robin. I'd say they're about even now.


I agree, but a lot of Tim fans don't. lol I always see a post now and then complaining about how Damian pushed Tim out of the dinosaur in a salty tone, which is pretty funny to me, considering that Batman and Son will be 15 yo this year.  :Stick Out Tongue:

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## dietrich

Damian isn't getting a new identity guy's. He's Robin and will stay Robin.

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## dietrich

> I agree, but a lot of Tim fans don't. lol I always see a post now and then complaining about how Damian pushed Tim out of the dinosaur in a salty tone, which is pretty funny to me, considering that Batman and Son will be 15 yo this year.


Didn't help that Priest changed it to Damian testing Tim. 

It doesn't matter though. Even if Tim is shown stomping Damian into the ground, the salt will remain since a lot of the bitterness isn't about that but about the fact that a lot blame Damian for Tim's fall from popularity.

Which is only true in the sense that by adding Damian and bringing Jason back, more choices were introduced to fans.

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## Fergus

I think the thread nme is fine. 

Not to mention that listing all alias leads to Son of Batman, Robin, Red Bird, Demon's Head, Batman666, Nightwing..... Damian has had a lot of aliases

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## Blue22

> Damian isn't getting a new identity guy's. He's Robin and will stay Robin.


I'd like to  believe that but I don't know. They seem to be going full steam ahead this new direction for him now. Though if he does go back to Robin, I hope he at least keeps the new costume. I love it.

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## the1&onlyE.

> Didn't help that Priest changed it to Damian testing Tim. 
> 
> It doesn't matter though. Even if Tim is shown stomping Damian into the ground, the salt will remain since a lot of the bitterness isn't about that but about the fact that a lot blame Damian for Tim's fall from popularity.
> 
> Which is only true in the sense that by adding Damian and bringing Jason back, more choices were introduced to fans.


You're right, which to me is pretty stupid, considering Damian is a _fictional_ character, is not like he's responsible for what DC does. Well, fans will be fans. As long as we're getting more good Damian content, I don't care about this type of delusional take.




> I'd like to  believe that but I don't know. They seem to be going full steam ahead this new direction for him now. Though if he does go back to Robin, I hope he at least keeps the new costume. I love it.


Honesty, I definitely think he will be Robin again. It might take a while, but it will happen. In fact, I will even say that if Damian is in fact getting his own book, based on Gleb's posts, it isn't absurd to guess that its name will be Robin.

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## Frontier

Well, Joshua Williamson is writing "Robin" backups, so take from that what you will. 

Until we have someone else firmly using the Robin identity in a prominent way, I think there's still a possibility Damian will become Robin again in a year or two.

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## Konja7

> I'd like to  believe that but I don't know. They seem to be going full steam ahead this new direction for him now. Though if he does go back to Robin, I hope he at least keeps the new costume. I love it.


They've already said Damian will have another suit. So, I wouldn't hope he will mantain it. 


PS: I suspect the new suit will be a Robin suit.

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## Konja7

> I think the thread nme is fine. 
> 
> Not to mention that listing all alias leads to Son of Batman, Robin, Red Bird, Demon's Head, Batman666, Nightwing..... Damian has had a lot of aliases


However, Robin is the only identity tha he's been using for more than 10 years. 

I think it will be good to include Robin in the title.

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## Morgoth

Maybe some mix between Robin suit and his new look. 
Tynion said in his newslatter, that back-ups can lead to mini-series and ongoings, so with Melnikov and Williamson words I think it's pretty much confirmed some Damian series, maybe in April.

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## OopsIdiditagain

> However, Robin is the only identity tha he's been using for more than 10 years. 
> 
> I think it will be good to include Robin in the title.


But it's not like "Damian Wayne" alone isn't recognizable.

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## Astralabius

> Well, Joshua Williamson is writing "Robin" backups, so take from that what you will. 
> 
> Until we have someone else firmly using the Robin identity in a prominent way, I think there's still a possibility Damian will become Robin again in a year or two.


At least it doesn't look like Bruce has given up on Damian as Robin. But DC loves ignoring what Tomasi has done so that doesn't have to mean much.

DC still referring to Damian as Robin in interviews, stories and on the covers for the backup stories in March months after he quit as Robin makes me feel like this might end up being far less permanent than we thought at first too.

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## the1&onlyE.

> They've already said Damian will have another suit. So, I wouldn't hope he will mantain it. 
> 
> 
> PS: I suspect the new suit will be a Robin suit.


Someone asked Gleb how he would do a Damian Robin suit if he had the chance and he said he couldn't answer because of spoilers. This doesn't necessarily mean he's doing Damian a new Robin costume, but it raises suspicion.




> At least it doesn't look like Bruce has given up on Damian as Robin. But DC loves ignoring what Tomasi has done so that doesn't have to mean much.
> 
> DC still referring to Damian as Robin in interviews, stories and on the covers for the backup stories in March months after he quit as Robin makes me feel like this might end up being far less permanent than we thought at first too.


I think they got to a point in wich they were more dealing with the consequences of what they did in TT than actually moving forward, you know? They wanted to take Damian out of Robin for 5G and changed their minds, but they can't ignore everything - though they have already ignored a big part -, and now are dealing with it. We will see where that end up at.

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## Darkspellmaster

> But it's not like "Damian Wayne" alone isn't recognizable.


Damian and Jon will probably be getting more notice once they end up in Young Justice, or if they show up in some form on a CW show at some point. I can easily see DC wanting to sell a kids show with those two for HBO Max.

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## Rebeca Armus

I think keep just "Damian Wayne Appreciation" is better, there is many Robins, but just one Damian Wayne <3<3<3

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## Rebeca Armus

> Damian and Jon will probably be getting more notice once they end up in Young Justice, or if they show up in some form on a CW show at some point. I can easily see DC wanting to sell a kids show with those two for HBO Max.


I am dreaming with it too =u= can be in Clark and Louis series, new animation movies about they two, new super pets movies, YJ s4 aaany place, but I think it will happens

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## Rebeca Armus

There is one more thing, DC Super Hero Girls appeared in Teen Titans GO! Last month, Since Shazam appearance in TTGO! This really became a show for show Warner Bros projects, I still think Damian can show up in some episode. 
Would be fun and many many peoples would know the character.

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## Rebeca Armus

I think no one ever commented about Tiny Titans's Damian, but too much adorable for not being mentioned. 

6542fd3d7ca11503d5626d888ca3bfba.jpg

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## Restingvoice

> LMAO okay didn't expect that to be the first pic on the thread
> That kind of edit happens a lot... sometimes... once or twice
> It is kind of a shipper joke. They're usually gone within a day. People just wait to see how long before someone notice and edit it back.  So enjoy it while you can
> ...
> I'm saving it


It's gone ^^

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## Batman Begins 2005

My favourite Damian Wayne was with Dick Grayson's Batman. That Batman and Robin by Grant Morrison plus Batman #666 was special followed by his banter with Superboy in Peter J Tomasi's Super Sons.

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## Light of Justice

> Happy 2021 Everyone. What do you think is in store for Damian Wayne this Year?


Can you include link of past year thread as well? So new fans can read all of past discussion.

What I think is in store for Damian :
- Magic or Al Ghul related business and away from Batman and Batfam (which is weird because he's freaking 13 Bruce you can't leave him be and think "now he will search for his own path and I respect his opinion". At least he has his mother on future issues). 
- From Gleb twitter looks like there will be new support/villains character for him. And I like how he draw Damian.
- I think he will get mini book kinda similar with 'Robin Son of Batman'. 
- Of course, Supersons. If there's miracle, I hope we will get Supersons animated series this year, or maybe just announcement for next year.
- I really really don't want it, but there's possibility that he occasionally will appear as cameo on Titans Academy.
- Hope that we will get some closure about Book of Damned, Black Casebook, and Heretic's fate (I know that his death is not as iconic as Jason's but I think it should be a big deal if Damian's killer merged alive again? There's so many potential stories about it? Damn Glass and your unsatisfying storytelling, your take of Heretic is so lame)




> I think no one ever commented about Tiny Titans's Damian, but too much adorable for not being mentioned. 
> 
> 6542fd3d7ca11503d5626d888ca3bfba.jpg


Tiny Titans gave me this adorable Jason&Damian interaction, bless that book.

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## Astralabius

> - Hope that we will get some closure about Book of Damned, Black Casebook, and Heretic's fate (I know that his death is not as iconic as Jason's but I think it should be a big deal if Damian's killer merged alive again? There's so many potential stories about it? Damn Glass and your unsatisfying storytelling, your take of Heretic is so lame)


I fear there will be no more closure to these things than was already given.

Book of the damned: Just a plot device to get the team from plot a to plot b I'm afraid. Which is kinda funny considering Glass' "big bad" the Other aka Heretic turned out to be not much more than a plot device to give Damian this plot device.
I would be suprised if another writer uses it again.

Black Casebook: I feel like at the end of the day the only purpose of this was to give Bruce a reason to start looking for Damian (since his thirteen year old kid being missing was apparently not reason enough) and for Damian to have something to do while Tomasi had Bruce deal with the anti-vigilante movement. Also I'm pretty sure Bruce took it back when he found Damian's base and considering how much he stressed that the book was important for his work I don't see why Bruce should have given it back to Damian.

The Heretic: Well, his whole plan was to get Damian to take over for him because his resureccted body was dying. So if Crush making him fall down that hole didn't kill him he might have died because of his body failing him by now.

I know none of this sounds satisfying, but it's probably enough closure in DC's eyes.

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## the1&onlyE.

Guys, there's something that is kind of in my mind. In the first part of Demon or Detective, the solicitation says:




> Plus, the backup story "Demon or Detective" begins as *Damian Wayne is on the run*! After everything Damian has gone through, can he escape Gotham and find his way back to where his journey started—to his mother, Talia al Ghul? This two-part tale concludes this month in Detective Comics #1034!


This raised many questions in my mind. Why is he running away? From whom? Do you guys think this is just meant to mislead us or did something happen?

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## Astralabius

> Guys, there's something that is kind of in my mind. In the first part of Demon or Detective, the solicitation says:
> 
> 
> 
> This raised many questions in my mind. Why is he running away? From whom? Do you guys think this is just meant to mislead us or did something happen?


When the solicitations for March came out I thought something would happen in Detective Comics #1033 that would force Damian to escape from Gotham, but that didn't happen. Bruce has no reason to capture him right now.

Joker is going to attack Gotham in Infinite Frontier #0, so that might be a reason.
It might have to do with the League of Lazarus that was mentioned in the solicitations.
It could also be someone completely new that Joshua Williamson plans to use later in whatever story Damian will be involved in.
It could be nothing too. Solicitations are often more dramatic than the actual issue and sometimes they are straight up lying.
Maybe "After everything he went through Damian missed his mom and left the city to find her" simply didn't sound epic enough.

----------


## Rac7d*

> But it's not like "Damian Wayne" alone isn't recognizable.


Why his thread is the only one to discard his one and only title is an enigma to me ? Why not call the Bruce’s thread Bruce Wayne appreciation?

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> Why his thread is the only one to discard his one and only title is an enigma to me ? Why not call the Bruce’s thread Bruce Wayne appreciation?


Why is this so controversial? These threads aren't made by the same person, they won't always have the same title style. This is kinda a nonissue to be honest.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> When the solicitations for March came out I thought something would happen in Detective Comics #1033 that would force Damian to escape from Gotham, but that didn't happen. Bruce has no reason to capture him right now.
> 
> Joker is going to attack Gotham in Infinite Frontier #0, so that might be a reason.
> It might have to do with the League of Lazarus that was mentioned in the solicitations.
> It could also be someone completely new that Joshua Williamson plans to use later in whatever story Damian will be involved in.
> It could be nothing too. Solicitations are often more dramatic than the actual issue and sometimes they are straight up lying.
> Maybe "After everything he went through Damian missed his mom and left the city to find her" simply didn't sound epic enough.


Yes, to me there's two possibilities: something will happen in Infinite Frontier or it's just to raise the drama. Honestly, I hope it's the second case, because even though I'm happy Damian is in Infinite Frontier's cover, the situation reminds me of No Justice. And we all know where that one ended... :S

Also, even though he's in the cover, he might not have a huge part in any of the stories. I'm guessing he will appear in Joker's one, but more in the background than as a protagonist.

----------


## dietrich

can a mod add Robin to the title of this thread please

----------


## Blue22

> Why is this so controversial? These threads aren't made by the same person, they won't always have the same title style. This is kinda a nonissue to be honest.


Yeah I honestly didnt even notice until people brought it up. We all know who Damian is. Why does it matter?

----------


## Astralabius

> Yeah I honestly didnt even notice until people brought it up. We all know who Damian is. Why does it matter?


Someone changed it so now we can stop talking about it.

----------


## Fergus

I like this sketch of Damian from Gleb

----------


## the1&onlyE.

Damian was in Death Metal #7 and this time it was 100% him, a character even said his name! And he had dialogue!

It's dumb, but I always feel happy seeing him in this type of event.

----------


## Fergus

https://twitter.com/e_n0eno



https://twitter.com/glitter_dc

----------


## Fergus

> Damian was in Death Metal #7 and this time it was 100% him, a character even said his name! And he had dialogue!
> 
> It's dumb, but I always feel happy seeing him in this type of event.


I don't think it's dumb. I bet all fans feel the same. I know I do. It's always nice when big events with lots of characters show love or include characters I have a soft spot for.

----------


## Morgoth

I liked how he, Bruce and Dick were basically the last men standing in this battle.

----------


## Blue22

Maybe I need to actually read it but I'm just kinda confused on the timeline of Death Metal. It clearly takes place after Damian quit but...He's definitely Robin in the newest issue....So is that them just already spoiling that he really will be back as Robin?

----------


## Frontier

> Maybe I need to actually read it but I'm just kinda confused on the timeline of Death Metal. It clearly takes place after Damian quit but...He's definitely Robin in the newest issue....So is that them just already spoiling that he really will be back as Robin?


I think it's probably similar to how Babs is wearing the Burnside costume even though she hasn't worn it in a while. They just went with recognizable looks.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> Maybe I need to actually read it but I'm just kinda confused on the timeline of Death Metal. It clearly takes place after Damian quit but...He's definitely Robin in the newest issue....So is that them just already spoiling that he really will be back as Robin?


I think this whole Metal thing is kind of in and out of continuity. I don't know how to explain it - I'm not even sure there is a good way to explain it -, but from what other writers said, that's the conclusion I got.

----------


## Morgoth

> Maybe I need to actually read it but I'm just kinda confused on the timeline of Death Metal. It clearly takes place after Damian quit but...He's definitely Robin in the newest issue....So is that them just already spoiling that he really will be back as Robin?


These events were erased anyway, even with everyone remember it. And, probably, Snyder and Capullo just didn't care who Robin currently is.
But I think we can assume, that Damian just decided to wear suit one last time (maybe for now) in final battle.

----------


## Astralabius

> Maybe I need to actually read it but I'm just kinda confused on the timeline of Death Metal. It clearly takes place after Damian quit but...He's definitely Robin in the newest issue....So is that them just already spoiling that he really will be back as Robin?


Eh, Death Metal doesn't make a lot of sense for lots of characters timelinewise, I wouldn't read too much into it.
The event is supposed to be read by everyone who is into DC comics, even the ones who didn't pay attention to Teen Titans and Detective Comics, so Damian is still Robin in Death Metal because it's easier that way.

----------


## Restingvoice

At the end of Death Metal the event was erased to right before Batman Who Laughs attack, so that explains why the other books beside Metal don't show signs of doing anything related to Metal. 

After Perpetua and Batman Who Laughs left Earth at the end Justice/Doom War, after the Justice League was thought to be dead but rescued by the Council of Eternity, all of which happened at the end of Snyder's Justice League... 

Things continue like in all the books after Snyder's Justice League run ends. It's as if Justice/Doom War is the climax, then Justice League continues with its new writer, Batman continues with Joker War, Damian quitting Titans, and so on, while Death Metal is just a memory.

----------


## Eckri

So Challenge of the Supersons issue #4 
recently released. 
*spoilers:*
Vandal Savage, Faust, and Faust's apprentice, Aurora, are the main antagonist for the issue. As Damian and Jon time travel back to the past, curious how'll they get out of the grasp of Faust and Vandall Savage. Also Aurora looks like the old lady from the first issue, so there's a time question to be answered
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Fergus

So Snyder just took the scenic route to Morrison's everything is canon.

----------


## Fergus

> So Challenge of the Supersons issue #4 
> recently released. 
> *spoilers:*
> Vandal Savage, Faust, and Faust's apprentice, Aurora, are the main antagonist for the issue. As Damian and Jon time travel back to the past, curious how'll they get out of the grasp of Faust and Vandall Savage. Also Aurora looks like the old lady from the first issue, so there's a time question to be answered
> *end of spoilers*


While I'm enjoying this series, I can't wait till it's all collected/completed so I can read it all in one go.

I think that's when it'll really shine. At the moment it feels a tad slow

----------


## the1&onlyE.

Another Demon or Detective panel. I'm really curious to know what's happening.

----------


## Astralabius

> Another Demon or Detective panel. I'm really curious to know what's happening.


Maybe a member of the League of Lazarus attacking Talia? They were the only possible antagonists mentioned in the solicitations.
Talia hasn't been a member of the league of assassins in years, she had her own organization. So they might have a problem with her, who knows at this point.

----------


## Korath

> Another Demon or Detective panel. I'm really curious to know what's happening.


I just love how chill Talia seems to be about her situation.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> So Challenge of the Supersons issue #4 
> recently released. 
> *spoilers:*
> Vandal Savage, Faust, and Faust's apprentice, Aurora, are the main antagonist for the issue. As Damian and Jon time travel back to the past, curious how'll they get out of the grasp of Faust and Vandall Savage. Also Aurora looks like the old lady from the first issue, so there's a time question to be answered
> *end of spoilers*


They use half of the comic for explain the new characters :/ too much wait for don't see the protagonists right.
But love the "you are from the past" thing.

----------


## Katana500

> Another Demon or Detective panel. I'm really curious to know what's happening.


Death probably isnt as scary when you can be revived in a Lazarus pit.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Death probably isnt as scary when you can be revived in a Lazarus pit.


True '^^ How many times did Talia die at now?

----------


## Frontier

> Another Demon or Detective panel. I'm really curious to know what's happening.


China dress Talia?

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> True '^^ How many times did Talia die at now?


Honestly, who knows. I guess it depends of what stories are and aren't canon, which I have no idea. If at least Death and the Maidens is canon, she died a lot of times.

By the way, I wonder if Damian has ever met Nyssa. 




> China dress Talia?


If I remember correctly, Talia's mother, Melisandre, was Chinese and Arab descendant. Talia has used Chinese clothes a couple of times now.

----------


## Fergus

> Honestly, who knows. I guess it depends of what stories are and aren't canon, which I have no idea. If at least Death and the Maidens is canon, she died a lot of times.
> 
> By the way, I wonder if Damian has ever met Nyssa.


Not that I'm aware of. I wouldn't mind getting more stories that explore his Al Ghul side. Like we got we Mara and the Fist.

I want to see more of a cast from that side of the family.

----------


## Fergus

> Another Demon or Detective panel. I'm really curious to know what's happening.


Demon or Detective? Damian should be both. He is both.
Damian Wayne Demon Detective aka Robin.

Gleb truly is a great Artist. What a nice piece. Talia looks Amazing.

----------


## Fergus

Loved this panel from Death metal

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Loved this panel from Death metal


Is because of this I read comics X''''D

----------


## CPSparkles

> Loved this panel from Death metal


This is funny and very Damian. Of course you are right Damian and Snyder has always maintained that Damian is the Batman Perfected. Don't know if that's a positive or a negative.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Is because of this I read comics X''''D


I know right.

Happy 2021 everyone.

Hope this year is a bigger and better one for Damian.

2020 was a mixed bag at best for Damian. He  starred in DC's most successful direct to DVD animated movie [thanks to Covid restrictions forcing people around the Globe to streaming content]

DCeased was on of the top ten selling comics going into 2020 and those sales, critical acclaim and awards just kept going up. 

[as an aside, Tom Taylor had one hell of a year and excited to see what he does with Dick]

But he also briefly lost Robin and was replaced by Tim or that strange mixture of characters Damian Drake.

He was missing from a lot of Metal and Tynion's batman which ironically pledged to bring back/restore the Batfamily [guess Tynion meant 90's Bat family. The Era Tynion first got into comics]

He is missing from all Future State promo and TT continued to shit all over the character.

Thing's are looking up with the backups and Dc's continued reluctance to put a ring on it and actually name/acknowlegde Tim as robin.

The continued promotion of Damian as Robin. I hope they get their shit together and stop messing fans around

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I know right.
> 
> Happy 2021 everyone.
> 
> Hope this year is a bigger and better one for Damian.
> 
> 2020 was a mixed bag at best for Damian. He  starred in DC's most successful direct to DVD animated movie [thanks to Covid restrictions forcing people around the Globe to streaming content]
> 
> DCeased was on of the top ten selling comics going into 2020 and those sales, critical acclaim and awards just kept going up. 
> ...


Happy New Year <3

I also hope a better year dor Dmain and earth in general, I know what I mean...
I am still excited about how many midias are going to be released and how Damian can pop up on them, I saw a post about YJ and remembered that someone here talked about a season with "Super Babies" (*-*)/<333 I would like a movie in the same universe of Man of Tomorrow, more chances of them showing up...

What is your "best promise" for Damian?

----------


## CPSparkles

> Happy New Year <3
> 
> I also hope a better year dor Dmain and earth in general, I know what I mean...
> I am still excited about how many midias are going to be released and how Damian can pop up on them, I saw a post about YJ and remembered that someone here talked about a season with "Super Babies" (*-*)/<333 I would like a movie in the same universe of Man of Tomorrow, more chances of them showing up...
> 
> What is your "best promise" for Damian?


YJ is a possibility since we know that there's going to be a time skip and Greg said that they are keen to move on the current cast. However there is a rumour that the upcoming season will focus on the OG team which is also a smart move and very likely.

Maybe Dickbats can finally get introduced.

harley quin season 3 is coming and Damian is a definite.

I don't see him being in Gotham knights since Tim is rocking his face and clothes.

No Animated Movies this year [we've already seen the list] 
The higher ups at WB and HBO in general don't seem to be interested in or big fans of the Batfamily [they called Batgirl a risky choice. batgirl!] so while new live-action shows will keep getting greenlit, the chances of Damian being in one is not big

DCeased 3 is likely but don't see him popping up in Batman. I hope he gets a solo or even a maxi. If DC really is honest about encouraging creator led projects then Damian should be fine if DC doesn't fire the rest of the older guard left at DC.

Jorge Jimenze keeps talking about animated Supersons I hope someone is listening. That is my big wish for Damian. An anime with the two bros

----------


## CPSparkles

Damian Wayne 



https://twitter.com/0yongyong0tata

----------


## CPSparkles

Late Holiday wishes



https://twitter.com/Unmoving5



https://twitter.com/c4ttyw4mpus

----------


## CPSparkles

Bros
Dick and Damian



https://twitter.com/swanndraws

Jason and baby Damian [inspired by YJ]



https://twitter.com/itoshi228

Damian and Steph 



https://twitter.com/CroissantWren

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/catyyps

Damian as batman by TK Comics



https://twitter.com/comics_tk

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/_elcece

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/_vaxxu068

----------


## Fergus

> https://twitter.com/_elcece


This is funny

----------


## Fergus

> This is funny and very Damian. Of course you are right Damian and Snyder has always maintained that Damian is the Batman Perfected. Don't know if that's a positive or a negative.


I think it was both. While he said that Damian would make the best Batman, he also said that Damian was batman without the empathy.

I think Damian will make the best Batman 
Dick is the best hero
Tim is the dark horse and potential the most deadly.

----------


## KrustyKid

> I think it was both. While he said that Damian would make the best Batman, he also said that Damian was batman without the empathy.
> 
> I think Damian will make the best Batman 
> Dick is the best hero
> Tim is the dark horse and potential the most deadly.


Completely agree, Damian hands down would make the best Batman of the three. He's not only the most driven, his motivation would keep him at the max height mentally while I feel Tim and Dick would get clouded by things outside the mission. Damian is the only one out of the boys I feel could match Bruce, or surpass him in productivity when all fields are considered. Tim, Jason, and Dick might do some things better, but Damian as the full package to me would be the most effective.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Completely agree, Damian hands down would make the best Batman of the three. He's not only the most driven, his motivation would keep him at the max height mentally while I feel Tim and Dick would get clouded by things outside the mission. Damian is the only one out of the boys I feel could match Bruce, or surpass him in productivity when all fields are considered. Tim, Jason, and Dick might do some things better, but Damian as the full package to me would be the most effective.


Yeah i think a lot of times people forget just how young he is relative to his skill leve4l, accomplishments and just what he undertakes.

Of the Robins I think Dick also did a lot when he was young/pre teen.

----------


## CPSparkles

Talia by Gleb

----------


## CPSparkles

> I think it was both. While he said that Damian would make the best Batman, he also said that Damian was batman without the empathy.
> 
> I think Damian will make the best Batman 
> Dick is the best hero
> Tim is the dark horse and potential the most deadly.


I agree with the last 3 statements.
Timmy being the dark horse with the potential to be the most dangerous [I don't think he's the most deadly that would be Damian] is mostly due to him being somewhat detached with a tendency to touch the darkness.

Fans forget that

Dick is another that fan forget has a temper and totally would go ham when pissed

----------


## KrustyKid

> I agree with the last 3 statements.
> Timmy being the dark horse with the *potential* to be the most dangerous [I don't think he's the most deadly that would be Damian] is mostly due to him being somewhat detached with a tendency to touch the darkness.
> 
> Fans forget that
> 
> Dick is another that fan forget has a temper and totally would go ham when pissed


I actually agree with Fergus here. From what we've seen from potential futures as each 'Robin' taking over the mantel Tim has been the one that has gone completely out of pocket. From a physical standpoint/battle skills, Damian is easily the superior when full potential is measured. I feel a Damian Batman would be more like Bruce, except one who may be tempted or who would not mind pushing or crossing lines Bruce would never. Tim/Batman is more of a game of chess in the way he operates, fully seen by the dictatorship that was on display. All the more reason Damian would be better suited for the role, I don't believe he would go that far, at least not in that direction.

----------


## Astralabius

> Talia by Gleb


I'm here for Talia kicking some ass.

----------


## CPSparkles

> I'm here for Talia kicking some ass.


Me too  :Smile:  Between this and Deathmetal 7's end tease I hope there's good things on the horizon for her

----------


## CPSparkles

> I actually agree with Fergus here. From what we've seen from potential futures as each 'Robin' taking over the mantel Tim has been the one that has gone completely out of pocket. From a physical standpoint/battle skills, Damian is easily the superior when full potential is measured. I feel a Damian Batman would be more like Bruce, except one who may be tempted or who would not mind pushing or crossing lines Bruce would never. Tim/Batman is more of a game of chess in the way he operates, fully seen by the dictatorship that was on display. All the more reason Damian would be better suited for the role, I don't believe he would go that far, at least not in that direction.


Damian's superiority isn't just physical. mentally and in other  areas as well. He's skill sets is astonishing.
I felt it was a nice touch Tynion highlighting Tim tendencies like cheating to compensate for his short comings. 
like when he fought Shiva - poising her before hand parallel with Tim blowing up a building because he was inferior to Damian in physical combat. So I guess that might be considered chess playing.

Tim it turns out isn't a good chess player. He should have researched how to kill an immortal like Damian [Hurt explained how] rather than blowing up Gotham Central. Lord knows how many people died in that.

----------


## KrustyKid

> Damian's superiority isn't just physical. mentally and in other  areas as well. He's skill sets is astonishing.
> I felt it was a nice touch Tynion highlighting Tim tendencies like cheating to compensate for his short comings. 
> like when he fought Shiva - poising her before hand parallel with Tim blowing up a building because he was inferior to Damian in physical combat. So I guess that might be considered chess playing.
> 
> Tim it turns out isn't a good chess player. He should have researched how to kill an immortal like Damian [Hurt explained how] rather than blowing up Gotham Central. Lord knows how many people died in that.


Tim's way of thinking, by chess/ I mean he is less direct in his approaches than Damian. He'll set something up and let all the chips fall into place like a domino affect. 

More so than anything they have done as Robin, I look at their future Batman interpretations. Bat-Damian overall has been shown to be the more skillful one, while Bat-Tim has shown to be the more dangerous; simply because of how far he has shown he will go. We have not seen that from any version of Bat-Damian that has gone to such extreme lengths to try and gain control of the playing field, thus why I'd give the edge to Tim in that regard.

Now let's say we got a future Bat-Damian that lost his way and possibly involved the LoA in his quest, then we could be talking an entirely different game.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Tim's way of thinking, by chess/ I mean he is less direct in his approaches than Damian. He'll set something up and let all the chips fall into place like a domino affect. 
> 
> More so than anything they have done as Robin, I look at their future Batman interpretations. Bat-Damian overall has been shown to be the more skillful one, while Bat-Tim has shown to be the more dangerous; simply because of how far he has shown he will go. We have not seen that from any version of Bat-Damian that has gone to such extreme lengths to try and gain control of the playing field, thus why I'd give the edge to Tim in that regard.
> 
> Now let's say we got a future Bat-Damian that lost his way and possibly involved the LoA in his quest, then we could be talking an entirely different game.


Tim failed in his attempts to gain control of the playing field which was why he was forced to time travel.

He failed in his attempt to kill off the threat that was teen Damian and the only other time's we saw that world there were 2 batmen [Tim and Damian though Tim then died]

Tim tried to play chess but he failed.
Becoming a dictator isn't what I would call playing chess. Setting up traps around Gotham to ensure victory [666], researching your enemy before hand and have plans for taking them down [future Tim did and didn't do this] that is chess playing.

An attempted fascist regime isn't.

I do agree that Tim is more Dangerous

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Jorge Jimenze keeps talking about animated Supersons I hope someone is listening. That is my big wish for Damian. An anime with the two bros


First time listening about him, I would love!

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I have a thought about Damian-Tim as Batman.

Tim wants to be Batman because he always admired him as Gotham Knight; Damian wants to be Batman because he is his father. 
So Tim choose Batman among all the other heroes, but Damian probably would to become another hero if his father had another identity.

So I still like Tim being Batman and Damian finding another path.
***but still think he is perfect in DCeased and when Bruce was out of Gotham and he use a Batman ugly-cute uniform <333

----------


## Light of Justice

> I have a thought about Damian-Tim as Batman.
> 
> Tim wants to be Batman because he always admired him as Gotham Knight; Damian wants to be Batman because he is his father. 
> So Tim choose Batman among all the other heroes, but Damian probably would to become another hero if his father had another identity.
> 
> So I still like Tim being Batman and Damian finding another path.
> ***but still think he is perfect in DCeased and when Bruce was out of Gotham and he use a Batman ugly-cute uniform <333


I completely agree about this. Damian's journey so far largely were influenced by his family and his blood. I want him to carve his own path away from Bruce's and Talia's expectation (even though I think he's still to young for that). That's why when I see 'Demon or Detective' title I just raised my eyebrow. 
Damian is both but I want him to be neither.

----------


## KrustyKid

> *Tim failed in his attempts to gain control of the playing field which was why he was forced to time travel*.
> 
> He failed in his attempt to kill off the threat that was teen Damian and the only other time's we saw that world there were 2 batmen [Tim and Damian though Tim then died]
> 
> Tim tried to play chess but he failed.
> *Becoming a dictator isn't what I would call playing chess*. Setting up traps around Gotham to ensure victory [666], researching your enemy before hand and have plans for taking them down [future Tim did and didn't do this] that is chess playing.
> 
> An attempted fascist regime isn't.
> 
> I do agree that Tim is more Dangerous


Future Tim was in control of things in that version of Gotham, him being teleported away was against his will. The whole time travel bit was to try and change the past to alter the present.

It's not just being a dictator, but rather his process behind controlling things like we saw from him. The wide range surveillance he had set up being part of that.

Both future versions of Tim/Damian are schemers, and both showed to do their homework when it comes to taking down someone who may oppose them. Tim just showed to push the envelope a little further when trying to get what he wants.

----------


## KrustyKid

> I completely agree about this. Damian's journey so far largely were influenced by his family and his blood. I want him to carve his own path away from Bruce's and Talia's expectation (even though I think he's still to young for that). That's why when I see *'Demon or Detective'* title I just raised my eyebrow. 
> Damian is both but I want him to be neither.


Can't change what you are. He can still be both and forge a great path of his own. The kid has great ambition

----------


## KrustyKid

> I have a thought about Damian-Tim as Batman.
> 
> Tim wants to be Batman because he always admired him as Gotham Knight; Damian wants to be Batman because he is his father. 
> So Tim choose Batman among all the other heroes, but Damian probably would to become another hero if his father had another identity.
> 
> So I still like Tim being Batman and Damian finding another path.
> ***but still think he is perfect in DCeased and when Bruce was out of Gotham and he use a Batman ugly-cute uniform <333


Tim definitely doesn't want to become Batman, in his mind if anyone should take over he'd elect Dick in a heart beat.

You're pretty spot on in regards to Damian. It's definitely a pride thing, a motivation that presses him to keep grinding

----------


## Fergus

https://twitter.com/Minwind2009

----------


## Fergus

> Future Tim was in control of things in that version of Gotham, him being teleported away was against his will. The whole time travel bit was to try and change the past to alter the present.
> 
> It's not just being a dictator, but rather his process behind controlling things like we saw from him. The wide range surveillance he had set up being part of that.
> 
> Both future versions of Tim/Damian are schemers, and both showed to do their homework when it comes to taking down someone who may oppose them. Tim just showed to push the envelope a little further when trying to get what he wants.


How was he in control?

ToT Tim was successful in his Dictatorship Rebirth Tec Future Tim wasn't and he more important he wasn't a reliable narrator.

rebirth Tec Tim was far too stupid really. I don't subscribe to the whole Tim is a wonder kid HC because he wasn't but he was smarter than future Tim shown in Tec

----------


## Fergus

> I have a thought about Damian-Tim as Batman.
> 
> Tim wants to be Batman because he always admired him as Gotham Knight; Damian wants to be Batman because he is his father. 
> So Tim choose Batman among all the other heroes, but Damian probably would to become another hero if his father had another identity.
> 
> So I still like Tim being Batman and Damian finding another path.
> ***but still think he is perfect in DCeased and when Bruce was out of Gotham and he use a Batman ugly-cute uniform <333


Tim doesn't want to be Batman and I don't think he has the aptitude for it. He doesn't have a good record when it comes to the cowl. Always ends in failure

For Damian I like what we saw in BB. Inherits the cowl then passes it to Terry to take over the LOa and change it into something good or a peaceful civilian life

----------


## Frontier

> https://twitter.com/Minwind2009


Everyone looking good in suits!



> Tim doesn't want to be Batman and I don't think he has the aptitude for it. He doesn't have a good record when it comes to the cowl. Always ends in failure
> 
> For Damian I like what we saw in BB. Inherits the cowl then passes it to Terry to take over the LOa and change it into something good or a peaceful civilian life


Seems like nobody other than Bruce was able to really work as Batman in the long-term.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I completely agree about this. Damian's journey so far largely were influenced by his family and his blood. I want him to carve his own path away from Bruce's and Talia's expectation (even though I think he's still to young for that). That's why when I see 'Demon or Detective' title I just raised my eyebrow. 
> Damian is both but I want him to be neither.


Double agree <3
I still think he can be away but not alone, like with another friends or tutor, sadly DC just made this in a way it will not be gold Dick.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Tim doesn't want to be Batman and I don't think he has the aptitude for it. He doesn't have a good record when it comes to the cowl. Always ends in failure
> 
> For Damian I like what we saw in BB. Inherits the cowl then passes it to Terry to take over the LOa and change it into something good or a peaceful civilian life


Why Tim doesn't want to be Batman? I think he really wanted the name in Battle for the Cowl, also Dick doesn't want to become Batman, I don't think Tim would put pressure on Dick because on this.

----------


## Eckri

So Challenge of the Supersons # 5 released 
*spoilers:*
Just set up for the time travel with Aurora to save Hawkgirl. So any news what's Damian's role on Infinite Frontier?
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Light of Justice

> Seems like nobody other than Bruce was able to really work as Batman in the long-term.


Dick works well as Batman, and Morrison planned him to be Batman for 5 years more (with Robin Damian of course) but it was protested by editorial and Batman fans. Such unfortunate, because if I had to choose between Morrison's B&R and Tomasi's B&R, I will choose Morrison's B&R in heartbeat




> Why Tim doesn't want to be Batman? I think he really wanted the name in Battle for the Cowl, also Dick doesn't want to become Batman, I don't think Tim would put pressure on Dick because on this.


I, and probably every other Robins fans except some of Dick's fans, will never ever re-read Battle for The Cowl, but from my understanding Tim (temporary) wore Batman's cowl to push Dick to take it? I agree that most likely Tim doesn't want to be Batman, even on Titans of Tomorrow, Tim became Batman because other candidates are unavailable (thanks to some very shitty reasons, Dick left the family to get married and live happily ever after? Jason get crippled and depressed? Whatever Hitler incarnate enters Damian's body? I mean, the future setting was already on apocalypse condition, why not just make them already drop dead?). 

Anyway, I don't know if he ever wants be Batman, but personally I don't want either of 4 main Robin take Batman's cowl. Their characters are too unique to be just as Bruce's replacement (DickBats is special case because I enjoyed Reverse Dynamic Duo so much).

----------


## Morgoth

And still just one mention of Damian in Future State, and that's it. It's really weird, to be honest, even if they just did not have time to come up with a plot for him.

----------


## Astralabius

> And still just one mention of Damian in Future State, and that's it. It's really weird, to be honest, even if they just did not have time to come up with a plot for him.


Is it "Damian..." in Robin Eternal?

I'm kinda hoping Damian is simply dead. No more Damian as a villain bullshit.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> Is it "Damian..." in Robin Eternal?
> 
> I'm kinda hoping Damian is simply dead. No more Damian as a villain bullshit.


Yes, that's the only mention I've seen so far. Really disappointing, to be honest.  :Frown:  I'm also hoping he is just dead and that's it, but I want to know why, you know? 

And it's just frustrating, because we don't know why they are keeping so much secret about it. On one hand, it might just be a case of sloppiness, but on the other it might be something else, I just have no idea what.

----------


## Fergus

when you consider the explanation for Damian the current Robin missing from BRE and the explanation for Damian missing from New 52 Batman then remember that Future State was over seen by the same people then I wouldn't hold my breathe on the explanation being very good.

My bet is he was going to be evil and dead [judging by the way he's story was heading and that baby Hitler line] until the fan backlash re TT and plans relating to Robin changed.

----------


## CPSparkles

> https://twitter.com/Minwind2009


This is cute

----------


## CPSparkles

> when you consider the explanation for Damian the current Robin missing from BRE and the explanation for Damian missing from New 52 Batman then remember that Future State was over seen by the same people then I wouldn't hold my breathe on the explanation being very good.
> 
> My bet is he was going to be evil and dead [judging by the way he's story was heading and that baby Hitler line] until the fan backlash re TT and plans relating to Robin changed.


I'm cool with no explanation instead of a halfarsed explanation like we had with Snyder's batman. I also don't mind dead [like Wallace] but not evil or something stupid.

Now that Red X is someone inspired by Dick I fear it might be him. I hope not

----------


## CPSparkles

> Future Tim was in control of things in that version of Gotham, him being teleported away was against his will. The whole time travel bit was to try and change the past to alter the present.
> 
> It's not just being a dictator, but rather his process behind controlling things like we saw from him. The wide range surveillance he had set up being part of that.
> 
> Both future versions of Tim/Damian are schemers, and both showed to do their homework when it comes to taking down someone who may oppose them. Tim just showed to push the envelope a little further when trying to get what he wants.


Future tim wasn't in control of anything. He wasn't in control of Gotham, he wasn't in control of getting rid of Damian and he wasn't in control of his plans to kill people from the future. Tynion messed up trying to graft ToT on to what looked like 666.

Tim was never in control since that world had 2 Batmen always. Tim's attempts to get rid of Damian failed as we saw so Tim was never solo Batman.

ToT Tim was ran a successful Fascist regime but due to Tec I don't know if that world even is still a thing.

----------


## Astralabius

Solicitations are coming out in two days and Joshua Williamson posted a Damian gif, can't wait to see what we'll be getting exactly.
I'm hoping for a Damian solo.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> Solicitations are coming out in two days and Joshua Williamson posted a Damian gif, can't wait to see what we'll be getting exactly.
> I'm hoping for a Damian solo.


I really hope that Joshua dropping gifs means that we will have an announcement Friday! If it's not I will be pretty disappointed, even though I'm pretty sure it will come sooner or later.

----------


## Drako

NEWS!!

DC Comics launching Damian Wayne led series ‘Robin’

https://aiptcomics.com/2021/01/14/dc...es-robin-2021/

----------


## Korath

Welp... I'm done with this character it seems. 

DC got the chance to make him hiw own man and instead they regress him to the Robin mantle for that story ? Hard pass.

----------


## Astralabius

> NEWS!!
> 
> DC Comics launching Damian Wayne led series ‘Robin’
> 
> https://aiptcomics.com/2021/01/14/dc...es-robin-2021/


Finally something I can look forward to. I'm really excited!

----------


## Restingvoice

> Welp... I'm done with this character it seems. 
> 
> DC got the chance to make him hiw own man and instead they regress him to the Robin mantle for that story ? Hard pass.


He's 13. He shouldn't be his own man just yet.

----------


## sifighter

I trust Williamson after Flash and Speed Metal to write a good and compelling Damian as well as a reasonable reason why he’d call himself Robin again. Plus Damian in a fighting tournament sounds cool.

----------


## Astralabius

> He's 13. He shouldn't be his own man just yet.


Yeah. It's kinda hard to be a man when you're literally a child and should be allowed to be that.

----------


## Digifiend

Should've shown the full cover and not the cropped version.
[img]https://***********/aiptcomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/ROBIN_Cv1-min.jpg?resize=768%2C1181&ssl=1[/img]

----------


## Rac7d*

> NEWS!!
> 
> DC Comics launching Damian Wayne led series ‘Robin’
> 
> https://aiptcomics.com/2021/01/14/dc...es-robin-2021/


Here we go!!!! Damian wins again.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Welp... I'm done with this character it seems. 
> 
> DC got the chance to make him hiw own man and instead they regress him to the Robin mantle for that story ? Hard pass.


His own man at 13 ???? 
Your confusing him with Tim

----------


## Korath

> He's 13. He shouldn't be his own man just yet.


Of course he should. it's not his age which matetrs, it's that he finally had managed to break off the control of his father like he had his mother's, in a way which elft no doubt about it. And he returns to it like a whipped dog. that's trash storytelling and a true character assassination. Far more than what was done in TT where Damian was likeable, and perhaps my favorite depiction of him since a very long time. You felt for him. But now, this decision to call himself Robin all over again just destroy all of it in the worst way. And that's a damn shame.

----------


## Korath

> Yeah. It's kinda hard to be a man when you're literally a child and should be allowed to be that.


Then he needs to stop being a super-hero. Stop lying to yourself, he is a child-soldier, and he won't ever stop to be if he doesn't ditch the cowl entirely. He will NEVER be a child.

----------


## Blue22

> Finally something I can look forward to. I'm really excited!


Oh my God! I love that costume! Not as much as his current look but still! WOW! He's rocked two GREAT looks in a row now.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

I'M SO EXCITED!! Can't wait for April!!

----------


## Drako

> Of course he should. it's not his age which matetrs, it's that he finally had managed to break off the control of his father like he had his mother's, in a way which elft no doubt about it. And he returns to it like a whipped dog. that's trash storytelling and a true character assassination. Far more than what was done in TT where Damian was likeable, and perhaps my favorite depiction of him since a very long time. You felt for him. But now, this decision to call himself Robin all over again just destroy all of it in the worst way. And that's a damn shame.


TT Damian was likeable?
Robbie Thompson's Teen Titans?

----------


## Korath

> TT Damian was likeable?
> Robbie Thompson's Teen Titans?


Yes. You could see him hurting and yet still try to do the right thing, battling with the very rules of a never-ending super-heroes comic universe. You saw how, time and again, eh strove for ways to make the world safer without killing. He tried all he could, it made him tremendously great. And in the end, he even told, in no uncertain terms, that he was done taking orders from Batman, that he was done being someone else, and was free to be whoever he wanted. And now he returns to Robin as if nothing had happened. That's just terrible writing, it robs him of his agency, it makes him look more like a petulant and in fact overreacting child than it makes him great. 

And all of this could have been avoided if he wasn't calling himself Robin. Damian doesn't need this mantle to sell or be distinct from other characters. The mantle does tremendously little to help him, in fact it's more a leash than anything else.

----------


## Drako

> Yes. You could see him hurting and yet still try to do the right thing, battling with the very rules of a never-ending super-heroes comic universe. You saw how, time and again, eh strove for ways to make the world safer without killing. He tried all he could, it made him tremendously great. And in the end, he even told, in no uncertain terms, that he was done taking orders from Batman, that he was done being someone else, and was free to be whoever he wanted. And now he returns to Robin as if nothing had happened. That's just terrible writing, it robs him of his agency, it makes him look more like a petulant and in fact overreacting child than it makes him great. 
> 
> And all of this could have been avoided if he wasn't calling himself Robin. Damian doesn't need this mantle to sell or be distinct from other characters. The mantle does tremendously little to help him, in fact it's more a leash than anything else.


I didn't find him likeable at all during that run, but different strokes i guess. 

Even so, Tomasi already made him make peace with Bruce in TEC. We'll see how Williamson make the transition back to Robin. But i suspect that Tim wll be the one working for Bruce, since Tynion loves him, and Damian will have his adventures by himself.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Of course he should. it's not his age which matetrs, it's that he finally had managed to break off the control of his father like he had his mother's, in a way which elft no doubt about it. And he returns to it like a whipped dog. that's trash storytelling and a true character assassination. Far more than what was done in TT where Damian was likeable, and perhaps my favorite depiction of him since a very long time. You felt for him. But now, this decision to call himself Robin all over again just destroy all of it in the worst way. And that's a damn shame.


What control? He basically let him go off on his own, if anything he doesn't have enough control (read: give enough attention) as a parent.

----------


## Korath

> I didn't find him likeable at all during that run, but different strokes i guess. 
> 
> Even so, Tomasi already made him make peace with Bruce in TEC. We'll see how Williamson make the transition back to Robin. But i suspect that Tim wll be the one working for Bruce, since Tynion loves him, and *Damian will have his adventures by himself*.


Then all the more reason for him to not be calling himself Robin ! 

And I was against letting Tomasi write Damian ever again in main continuity after what he did to the character in Superman and then Supersons, and as I feared, he made sure I could never enjoy the character again.




> What control? He basically let him go off on his own, if anything he doesn't have enough control (read: give enough attention) as a parent.


And yet, every time they share a panel, he boss Damian around. it's quite clear that the Robin mantle is meant as a leash to keep Damian under Bruce's thumb more than it serves his son. And if this story is used to revive Alfred... the Bruce + Damian corner of the Batbook will be dead for me, because nothing which will happens here will matter and the only way to make me loath it more would be to marry Bruce and Selina for good and have them have a baby on which to lavish their love so that Bruce's little mutt could also "learn to be better" or some shit like that DC would then spew...

----------


## Wingin' It

This is great news! It's about time he got another ongoing. Looking forward to see what Williamson has in store!

----------


## Restingvoice

> And yet, every time they share a panel, he boss Damian around. it's quite clear that the Robin mantle is meant as a leash to keep Damian under Bruce's thumb more than it serves his son. And if this story is used to revive Alfred... the Bruce + Damian corner of the Batbook will be dead for me, because nothing which will happens here will matter and the only way to make me loath it more would be to marry Bruce and Selina for good and have them have a baby on which to lavish their love so that Bruce's little mutt could also "learn to be better" or some shit like that DC would then spew...


The writers of Teen Titans or whoever's planning for Damian to quit Robin (since the order came from the top) doesn't realize (or ignore) that portraying Bruce with that whole attitude of ignoring and berating doesn't make sense for someone who went to Apokolips to revive his son.

You like the portrayal in Teen Titans and accept the setup, that's fine, but I don't even accept the baseline concept of the past few years in the first place. So I'm waiting until they're done and it's back to a place where it makes sense. 

...and since the setup for this story is still Damian trying to be on his own, and Bruce doing idk whatever, we're not back yet, and I'm still waiting until it's completely over.

----------


## Astralabius

> Then he needs to stop being a super-hero. Stop lying to yourself, he is a child-soldier, and he won't ever stop to be if he doesn't ditch the cowl entirely. He will NEVER be a child.


I'm really wondering what you read with Damian except for Teen Titans considering that Damian allowing himself to be a kid is a pretty common theme in Damian's stories.

----------


## Korath

> I'm really wondering what you read with Damian except for Teen Titans considering that Damian allowing himself to be a kid is a pretty common theme in Damian's stories.


No, he allows himself moments of levity. Everyone does that, even adults, it help us endure the stress of life. Being a child, as in seeing the world with the innocence and gentleness of a child is already hard to keep for long in today's world. For child soldier, it's almost impossible even once they are taken out of the groups which made them killers at such a young age. For those who are still soldiering, even under other rules of engagement, it is simply impossible. Damian can't ever be a child because as a hero he is forever forced to see the darkness and rot of the world. That's as simple as that.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Then all the more reason for him to not be calling himself Robin !


Then what name should they call him? If they give him new name out of nowhere, new reader who don't know shit about Damian will skip it. This is Damian's first solo after a long time, and they need iconic name and title to attract new readers. 2 identities belongs to Damian that's popular enough are "Robin" and "Son of Batman" (Grandson of Demon Head is not popular enough, look at Mara and Nyssa). Which one between two of them that makes him tied with Bruce? If we're looking at business perspective, his solo titled Robin is understandable. He's on solo mission (or maybe with some help from his mother), he's done being Batman's sidekick and looks like he will put himself on gladiator ring so I think the "Robin" title is nothing more than advertisement.

----------


## Drako

> No, he allows himself moments of levity. Everyone does that, even adults, it help us endure the stress of life. Being a child, as in seeing the world with the innocence and gentleness of a child is already hard to keep for long in today's world. For child soldier, it's almost impossible even once they are taken out of the groups which made them killers at such a young age. For those who are still soldiering, even under other rules of engagement, it is simply impossible. *Damian can't ever be a child because as a hero he is forever forced to see the darkness and rot of the world. That's as simple as that*.


Funny how that doesn't apply to other child heroes.

----------


## lemonpeace

> Funny how that doesn't apply to other child heroes.


to be fair, a lot of the other child heroes weren't child soldiers/groomed to be warlords like Damian was; most had regular (-ish) childhoods.

----------


## Astralabius

> No, he allows himself moments of levity. Everyone does that, even adults, it help us endure the stress of life. Being a child, as in seeing the world with the innocence and gentleness of a child is already hard to keep for long in today's world. For child soldier, it's almost impossible even once they are taken out of the groups which made them killers at such a young age. For those who are still soldiering, even under other rules of engagement, it is simply impossible. Damian can't ever be a child because as a hero he is forever forced to see the darkness and rot of the world. That's as simple as that.


Turn down the edge a bit buddy. I literally don't understand how that is your interpretation of Damian's stories.

----------


## Drako

> to be fair, a lot of the other child heroes weren't child soldiers/groomed to be warlords like Damian was; most had regular (-ish) childhoods.


That's why the little moments that he can act like a kid are so good.

----------


## Korath

> Turn down the edge a bit buddy. I literally don't understand how that is your interpretation of Damian's stories.


Well, I read them ? Damian as never been a gentle child. He wasn't taught that way, he didn't grew up that way, and yet he has an heart of gold, beneath everything. But he sees the world differently from anyone who would have lived a normal childhood. And he nonetheless tries to do good. That's why he was such a great character. And that's why him returning to RObin after having ditched it is terrible.

I don't understand how anyone could be actually happy he returns to the Robin's mantle when it doesn't make sense story wise and highlight one of the greatest weaknesses of superhero comics, the lack of cohesive and actually meaningful storytelling.




> That's why the little moments that he can act like a kid are so good.


That's a thing, he doesn't act like a kid so much as he act like a normal person does. And I'm fine with that. but he's not a slapstick comedy character. He isn't a funny (in the traditional sense of the term) character.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Turn down the edge a bit buddy. I literally don't understand how that is your takeaway from Damian's stories.


I think different fans can have different perspective about a character, it's normal. And for people who have different takes, it's understandable that they can't understand each other. 

And I think it's too early for us to judge. As per solicitation, he's nowhere get his Robin mantle back as Batman's sidekick, more like he creates his own version of Robin title.

----------


## lemonpeace

> That's why the little moments that he can act like a kid are so good.


true, but it also makes sense that those moments are pretty few and far between, especially as he's entering adolescence and his teens. the older he gets, I can see Damian feeling more justified in his "adult complex".

----------


## Restingvoice

Damian is a child soldier, yes, he started at the darkest of dark, which is why the character development I want is for him to be less and less that. That doesn't mean there isn't gonna be bumps or withdrawals, and maybe in a long form storytelling, the withdrawal can last a while, but there should be a progressive change. 

(I'm no longer talking about Robinhood or not right now but the way DC tell their story and yeah, I realize we're talking about corporate comics who likes to keep things the same, but I'm not lowering my standard.)

...Bruce is his own problem.

----------


## Morgoth

It seems like DC wants once again to promote Robin not just as a sidekick or a Titans member, but as a more independent character with his own stories and support cast. Just like they did with Tim many years ago.
They, obviously, don't have any faith in Tim, so they decided to invest in Damian.

----------


## Light of Justice

> It seems like DC wants once again to promote Robin not just as a sidekick or a Titans member, but as a more independent character with his own stories and support cast. Just like they did with Tim many years ago.
> They, obviously, don't have any faith in Tim, so they decided to invest in Damian.


It's the same case with Superboy, like Conner's Superboy on Suicide Squad and Jon's Superboy on Superman/Action Comics maybe. With three Batgirl, West twins come back but Wallace still there and Wally's redemption, I think next era will be focused on multiple holder of legacy title. Looks like Tim will be Robin on Gotham, next Batman writer is Tynion after all.

----------


## Astralabius

> I think different fans can have different perspective about a character, it's normal. And for people who have different takes, it's understandable that they can't understand each other. 
> 
> And I think it's too early for us to judge. As per solicitation, he's nowhere get his Robin mantle back as Batman's sidekick, more like he creates his own version of Robin title.


Tell that to the guy who insisted I was "lying to myself"

----------


## Fergus

> Solicitations are coming out in two days and Joshua Williamson posted a Damian gif, can't wait to see what we'll be getting exactly.
> I'm hoping for a Damian solo.


Looks like you called it

----------


## scary harpy

> Should've shown the full cover and not the cropped version.
> [img]https://***********/aiptcomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/ROBIN_Cv1-min.jpg?resize=768%2C1181&ssl=1[/img]


I don't hate the costume.

I am less than impressed with the color choices.

----------


## Fergus

> I don't hate the costume.
> 
> I am less than impressed with the color choices.


I'm not too keen on the costume or the colours myself. Also he looks younger somehow

----------


## Blue22

> Also he looks younger somehow


That's been a common thing with him ever since Rebirth. He'll look anywhere between 10 and 14 depending on the artist. One of the only times he really looked like a teenager to me was in an early issue of King's Batman books. I don't really mind. It works for the short man complex he's always had lol

That said, I think 14 is probably the last year DC can get away with that. And even then, it's pushing it. Puberty is really taking its sweet time with him. Though I've often theorized that he came back to life at the same age he was when he died. So that might be the issue too. He's 13/14 but he very well could be a year behind, physically, depending on how long he was dead for.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I am less than impressed with the color choices.


Completely agree.  After Red Hood, Red Robin, Batwoman, and now even Grifter and Clownhunter, we seriously don't need another red-themed costume on Batfam.

----------


## Blue22

> Completely agree.  After Red Hood, Red Robin, Batwoman, and now even Grifter and Clownhunter, we seriously don't need another red-themed costume on Batfam.


It's not red though. That costume is mostly grey.

______________________

A post from Gleb's twitter

https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...811725316?s=20


This costume just looks better and better with each new pic

----------


## Restingvoice

> It's not red though. That costume is mostly grey.
> 
> ______________________
> 
> A post from Gleb's twitter
> 
> https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...811725316?s=20
> 
> 
> This costume just looks better and better with each new pic


I don't know what it is, but the grey looks better here. 
The old Robin cape still doesn't match the rest of the costume though.

----------


## Blue22

Yeah the cape does throw it off a bit, doesn't it? I honestly wouldn't mind if they just said "fuck it" and got rid of the cape or replaced it with a hood. But that could just be my general dislike for capes.

----------


## Rac7d*

Maya is coming back
We might even seen Jon and Colin

----------


## Blue22

> Maya is coming back
> We might even seen Jon and Colin


There was mention of Maya but none of Jon and Colin, as far as I know. That might just be wishful thinking. That said, I'd rather Jon just...stay away right now. Even if I did kinda like Williamson's voice for him in Justice League.

----------


## dietrich

> Maya is coming back
> We might even seen Jon and Colin


I'm pleased to get Maya back

----------


## Rac7d*

> Yeah the cape does throw it off a bit, doesn't it? I honestly wouldn't mind if they just said "fuck it" and got rid of the cape or replaced it with a hood. But that could just be my general dislike for capes.


They announced he will have many outfit 
This may not even be his final form

----------


## dietrich

> There was mention of Maya but none of Jon and Colin, as far as I know. That might just be wishful thinking. That said, I'd rather Jon just...stay away right now. Even if I did kinda like Williamson's voice for him in Justice League.


I agree. I don't want Jon here simply because they have Supersons to do the duo thing now let Damian have his own thing. I don't want Damian in Jon's Superman title and I don't want Jon in Damian's solo

----------


## Morgoth

> There was mention of Maya but none of Jon and Colin, as far as I know.


He was asked about them on Twitter and he said he's planning to use them all.
Jon will appear for sure, I think.

----------


## Blue22

> He was asked about them on Twitter and he said he's planning to use them all.
> Jon will appear for sure, I think.


Waaaaaaait! For real? So we are gonna see Colin? Don't you mess with me, man! I want sources lol

As for Jon...eh. I suppose they'll wanna follow up on the letter that Damian left him in Teen Titans but...I've fallen so far out of love with the character that I could care less. I don't really want him anywhere near Damian while they're still trying to shove him into that Clark 2.0 position that nobody asked him to be in.

----------


## Morgoth

https://twitter.com/Williamson_Josh/...45133630050305
But I think except Maya everyone will have some minor roles. Maybe they'll be rooting for Damian at tournament's finale, something like that.

----------


## Drako

Going by the cover, the Slade looking dude will be his final adversary.

----------


## Frontier

> It's not red though. That costume is mostly grey.
> 
> ______________________
> 
> A post from Gleb's twitter
> 
> https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...811725316?s=20
> 
> 
> This costume just looks better and better with each new pic


I have to admit, it's growing on me.

Might this be Damian's equivalent to Tim's red and black Post-Crisis costume?

----------


## Dataweaver

> Should've shown the full cover and not the cropped version.
> [img]https://***********/aiptcomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/ROBIN_Cv1-min.jpg?resize=768%2C1181&ssl=1[/img]


If Damian is going to be giving up the colors, maybe he should give up the moniker too. This would be a perfect opportunity to transition to a Bat-themed codename, like maybe Ibn al Xu'ffasch (Soon of the Bat). 

Not that I particularly want Tim to be Robin anymore, mind you. But it's better than Drake or Red Robin. 

Personally, I wouldn't mind if they used the recent time shenanigans to age Tim back up to adulthood and have him do something like the Agent 23 thing that Dick did for a while: have him become a private investigator, more along the lines of the Question. Heck, if they want to retire Vic Sage again and don't want to bring back Renee Montoya as his successor, Tim would make a _great_ Question.

----------


## dietrich

> If Damian is going to be giving up the colors, maybe he should give up the moniker too. This would be a perfect opportunity to transition to a Bat-themed codename, like maybe Ibn al Xu'ffasch (“Soon of the Bat”). 
> 
> Not that I particularly want Tim to be Robin anymore, mind you. But it's better than Drake or Red Robin. 
> 
> Personally, I wouldn't mind if they used the recent time shenanigans to age Tim back up to adulthood and have him do something like the Agent 23 thing that Dick did for a while: have him become a private investigator, more along the lines of the Question. Heck, if they want to retire Vic Sage again and don't want to bring back Renee Montoya as his successor, Tim would make a _great_ Question.


Or he can stick with Red Robin. never saw what was wrong with the name.

I don't want Tim mirroring Dick by becoming a spy. The bat boys copy each other too much as is not to mention I don't think Tim would make a good spy [Alvin Draper is no Agent 37]

Tim as a part time PI while he studies is an idea. That way he can have his work life balance thing going that was his thing way back then

----------


## dietrich

> If Damian is going to be giving up the colors, maybe he should give up the moniker too. This would be a perfect opportunity to transition to a Bat-themed codename, like maybe Ibn al Xu'ffasch (“Soon of the Bat”). 
> 
> Not that I particularly want Tim to be Robin anymore, mind you. But it's better than Drake or Red Robin. 
> 
> Personally, I wouldn't mind if they used the recent time shenanigans to age Tim back up to adulthood and have him do something like the Agent 23 thing that Dick did for a while: have him become a private investigator, more along the lines of the Question. Heck, if they want to retire Vic Sage again and don't want to bring back Renee Montoya as his successor, Tim would make a _great_ Question.


I believe Damian is going to be running through different costumes in the series so we don't know that he has given up the colours

----------


## Rac7d*

> Going by the cover, the Slade looking dude will be his final adversary.


Covers don’t mean anything he might just be an hallucinating him for 13 issues
But the Damian and Deathstroke rivalry seems to be going strong 8 years now

----------


## Wingin' It

> Covers don’t mean anything he might just be an hallucinating him for 13 issues
> But the Damian and Deathstroke rivalry seems to be going strong 8 years now


Slade isn't on the cover, it's someone else.

----------


## Dataweaver

> Or he can stick with Red Robin. never saw what was wrong with the name.
> 
> I don't want Tim mirroring Dick by becoming a spy. The bat boys copy each other too much as is not to mention I don't think Tim would make a good spy [Alvin Draper is no Agent 37]
> 
> Tim as a part time PI while he studies is an idea. That way he can have his work life balance thing going that was his thing way back then


Whoops! Wrong thread. This was supposed to be posted in Tim's appreciation thread. Sorry about that!

----------


## KrustyKid

Loving Damian's new look, it's awesome!

----------


## Konja7

> It's the same case with Superboy, like Conner's Superboy on Suicide Squad and Jon's Superboy on Superman/Action Comics maybe. With three Batgirl, West twins come back but Wallace still there and Wally's redemption, I think next era will be focused on multiple holder of legacy title. Looks like Tim will be Robin on Gotham, next Batman writer is Tynion after all.


Maybe Tim will be Robin in Gotham, but Tynion won't develop that. He had already said his Batman comic will focus on the new characters, while the Batfamily won't have a big role there.

In itself, I think DC has a lot more faith on Damian as Robin, since he has a solo.

----------


## KrustyKid

> Maybe Tim will be Robin in Gotham, but Tynion won't develop that. He had already said his Batman comic will focus on the new characters, while the Batfamily won't have a big role there.
> 
> In itself, I think DC has a lot more faith on Damian as Robin, since he has a solo.


Glad to see Damian back as Robin, as most of us predicted. I hope they revert Tim back to 'Drake', there is no need for two Robins imo

----------


## Rac7d*

> Slade isn't on the cover, it's someone else.


Its not???

----------


## KrustyKid

> It’s not???


Yep, that's how it sounds

----------


## Wingin' It

> It’s not???


Williamson confirmed it on his twitter, so people have been speculating about who it is.

----------


## Digifiend

> I have to admit, it's growing on me.
> 
> Might this be Damian's equivalent to Tim's red and black Post-Crisis costume?


Well, the R logo looks similar.

You mean post *Infinite* Crisis, of course. The term Post-Crisis usually means post-Crisis on Infinite Earths, so ALL of Tim's costumes are post-Crisis!

----------


## Drako

> Williamson confirmed it on his twitter, so people have been speculating about who it is.


What ya'll think about Grant Wilson? I think it would be interesting, since he is the only one of the Slade children that don't have much going on.

----------


## KrustyKid

> What ya'll think about Grant Wilson? I think it would be interesting, since he is the only one of the Slade children that don't have much going on.


If not a new character altogether, I'd actually be down with that.

----------


## Blue22

> What ya'll think about Grant Wilson? I think it would be interesting, since he is the only one of the Slade children that don't have much going on.


I'm hoping it's Grant. Mostly because, aside from a new character, the only alternative is Joey and like....no. He's been through enough lol

----------


## Wingin' It

> I'm hoping it's Grant. Mostly because, aside from a new character, the only alternative is Joey and like....no. He's been through enough lol


Honestly, Grant could be interesting as an antagonist to Damian. They have a lot of parallels that could be explored.

----------


## Jackalope89

Not mad at Damian being in a new Robin series (kind of looking forward to it), I just wished that DC would make up their minds on if Damian is Robin or not.

----------


## Korath

> Honestly, Grant could be interesting as an antagonist to Damian. They have a lot of parallels that could be explored.


Isn't Grant dead ? Isn't his whole deal that he die the very first time he puts on a mask and that's why Slade hates the Titans ?




> Not mad at Damian being in a new Robin series (kind of looking forward to it), I just wished that DC would make up their minds on if Damian is Robin or not.


I've got to hand it to Tim. When he gave up the Robin mantle, he at least added something before his new moniker. Here, we have Williamson stating that Damian is trying to distance himself from Batman by calling himself Robin. Even without taking into account the events of TT, which shouldn't be done because they marked a turning point for Damian, who was finally able to fully make a decision regarding his future on his own, I'm kind of baffled by this very notion.

And don't tell me that Robin sells more than Damian would have as a title. Naomi sold well and she was brand new. People who hate Damian won't pick up his book because of the Robin tag, he's not Batman. And as for myself, while I planned to buy is obviously coming solo, I wouldn't even read it on pirate sites now because it's called Robin. Beyond undermining the character, this choices does absolutely nothing, not even sense.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> I'm hoping it's Grant. Mostly because, aside from a new character, the only alternative is Joey and like....no. He's been through enough lol


It would be really interesting, and I think is not impossible, since the Lazarus pit is obviously involved in the story somehow.




> Not mad at Damian being in a new Robin series (kind of looking forward to it), I just wished that DC would make up their minds on if Damian is Robin or not.


I guess they didn't, because of 5G, and now changed their minds. Maybe in the back-ups we will know how he goes back to Robin.

----------


## Wingin' It

> Not mad at Damian being in a new Robin series (kind of looking forward to it), I just wished that DC would make up their minds on if Damian is Robin or not.


He is Robin. There is no question about that now. 5G's plan was to have him go evil and lose Robin, but when that direction was scrapped so was Damian leaving the mantle.

----------


## Wingin' It

> Isn't Grant dead ? Isn't his whole deal that he die the very first time he puts on a mask and that's why Slade hates the Titans ?


That was the case before the New52 reboot, but who knows what is canon now. Grant could well be alive...(correct me if I am wrong, I never ended up reading Deathstroke).

----------


## Korath

> That was the case before the New52 reboot, but who knows what is canon now. Grant could well be alive...(correct me if I am wrong, I never ended up reading Deathstroke).


I'm pretty sure that he still died in the New52/Rebirth continuity. And in fact it was partially his inability to save his son, no matter how much he tried, which made Slade become a sort of hero for a time.

----------


## Frontier

> Well, the R logo looks similar.
> 
> You mean post *Infinite* Crisis, of course. The term Post-Crisis usually means post-Crisis on Infinite Earths, so ALL of Tim's costumes are post-Crisis!


It was still within the Post-Crisis continuity  :Stick Out Tongue: .

----------


## Smilingblade

> Williamson confirmed it on his twitter, so people have been speculating about who it is.


Could it be Red Hood?

----------


## Drako

> That was the case before the New52 reboot, but who knows what is canon now. Grant could well be alive...(correct me if I am wrong, I never ended up reading Deathstroke).


He still is dead, Lazarus Contract was about Slade wanting to bring him back to life.
But death never stoped anything in the comics.

----------


## Wingin' It

> He still is dead, Lazarus Contract was about Slade wanting to bring him back to life.
> But death never stoped anything in the comics.


I see. So I guess the question is now...will he stay dead?

----------


## adrikito

> Maya is coming back
> We might even seen Jon and Colin


WHHAAAT?? How is that possible?




> NEWS!!
> 
> DC Comics launching Damian Wayne led series ‘Robin’
> 
> https://aiptcomics.com/2021/01/14/dc...es-robin-2021/


AWESOME. They changed their mind or something? I remember see with a different costume few weeks ago. Anyway. I like the designs... 

I found this today.. I randomly saw the news in my mobile phone. I like to see SLADE and Rose in his life again... 
*Some recognizes the characters here? I highly doubt that the dude in the cover is Slade.*

----------


## sifighter

> WHHAAAT?? How is that possible?


Probably because the big head writer of dcs next initiative decided he wanted to write a Damian book.

----------


## adrikito

> Probably because the big head writer of dc’s next initiative decided he wanted to write a Damian book.


But... Her name is mentioned? Maya is a Gleason creation..

For a moment I confused the girl with black hair with her.. But watching her better I discarded it.




> Welp... I'm done with this character it seems. 
> 
> DC got the chance to make him hiw own man and instead they regress him to the Robin mantle for that story ? Hard pass.


Damian has 13.. He is not Superkid who now is older than him.. If Damian had 15-16 I could understand him wanting independence but not with 13..




> Far more than what was done in TT where Damian was likeable, and perhaps my favorite depiction of him since a very long time. You felt for him. But now, this decision to call himself Robin all over again just destroy all of it in the worst way. And that's a damn shame.


I liked him in TT too.. Internet made me hate Supersons.. Pedophiles started to make gay porn with him and Superkid..  :Mad:  Pivix is TERRIBLE in that.

----------


## sifighter

You know I have to assume that Damian is at least 14 near 15 at this point, he turned 13 in Rebirth and since then characters like Aquaman had a baby daughter who are a few months old. At the very least a year or so has to have gone by. Personally I also think Damian should be drawn a little taller, not adult size I am just saying he doesn't necessarily need to be kid sized.

----------


## CPSparkles

this is great news.

----------


## CPSparkles

> You know I have to assume that Damian is at least 14 near 15 at this point, he turned 13 in Rebirth and since then characters like Aquaman had a baby daughter who are a few months old. At the very least a year or so has to have gone by. Personally I also think Damian should be drawn a little taller, not adult size I am just saying he doesn't necessarily need to be kid sized.


I like him kid size. Tim=teen size Dick and Jason=man size and Bruce is Burly man sized

----------


## adrikito

> https://twitter.com/Williamson_Josh/...45133630050305
> But I think except Maya everyone will have some minor roles. Maybe they'll be rooting for Damian at tournament's finale, something like that.


I see.. Hmmm.. I desire good luck to Maya but.. 

Until I see her I am not expecting too much... Maybe one of the characters in the cover shares the serie with him.

I am... The only who thinks that I see too many young girls here? 2 girls in the cover, the unknown above Ra´s and Rose.. *

3.jpg

Ra´s now wants to give him a girlfriend?*  :Confused: 

Maybe all of them are not as young as I think but... I see too many females here.  :Confused:

----------


## Blue22

> I liked him in TT too.. Internet made me hate Supersons.. Pedophiles started to make gay porn with him and Superkid..  Pivix is TERRIBLE in that.


Eh. I wouldn't like anything if I let the worse parts of the fandom influence me. The DamiJon stuff is awful but it's nothing to hold against the series, itself.

----------


## adrikito

> Eh. I wouldn't like anything if I let the worse parts of the fandom influence me. The DamiJon stuff is awful but it's nothing to hold against the series, itself.


It ruined me want to see Damian fanarts in internet.. I should be careful to avoid end disgusted. Thanks to that comic idea..

The comic disappointed me too many times and I left it before Supersons ended. I saw him humiliated as old man while Superkid was laughing and the TT had to act to make him recover his youth.  :Frown:   :Mad: 

*
ANYWAY. Now I should focus in Damian comic. Happy to see Slade and Damian again as Enemies. I hope that is the final villain..*

----------


## Blue22

See that's more understandable. Hate something for what you actually got from it and not for what the fans do lol

I'd freakin hate Steven Universe and RWBY if I judged them based on the behavior of their fandoms.




> *
> ANYWAY. Now I should focus in Damian comic. Happy to see Slade and Damian again as Enemies. I hope that is the final villain..*


Williamson already confirmed that's not Slade. And just as well. There are a number of reasons why I don't want those two near each other anymore. Mostly because it gets harder and harder to take Slade seriously as a villain in the greater DC Universe when his main adversaries are always kids and teenagers. Especially in the animated movies. Dude was easily the worst part of both Son of Batman and Judas Contract.

----------


## adrikito

Yeah.. I disliked him and the fans only made me think... Why I see now this??(talking about this Pedo porn with them)

*I am part of Inuyasha fanbase and I am surprised for how many ships there are in the serie..* I discovered it in twitter because I am watching the Sequel. Inuyasha older brother Seshomaru has ships with Almost every beautiful woman in the serie. These days twitter is in Fire with him because it won his love the predictable girl.  :Stick Out Tongue: 

I see Weird see many girls in the images but.. I wanted Maya, then Emiko and finally Djinn and nothing happened. I am not interested in more Damian ships anymore.  :Frown: 


Damnit.. Then Slade will not be too relevant. Maybe for this Rose is here. Because he is not in the comic to be the villain.

----------


## Konja7

Williamson has confirmed that Damian will have more suits in his solo:

https://mobile.twitter.com/Williamso...44037218013184


So, it's possible the current Robin suit in the cover won't be his final Robin suit.

----------


## adrikito

> Williamson has confirmed that Damian will have more suits in his solo:
> 
> https://mobile.twitter.com/Williamso...44037218013184
> 
> So, it's possible the current Robin suit in the cover won't be permanent.


Hmmm.. I think that this is the costume that we saw in FUTURE STATE.. Interesting. I thought that it was discarded and they returned here to give to him the Robin role again and discarded that costume.

----------


## Konja7

> Hmmm.. I think that this is the costume that we saw in FUTURE STATE.. Interesting. I thought that it was discarded and they returned here to give to him the Robin role again and discarded that costume.


That's the suit we see in Infinite Frontier (not Future State). 

Damian is using that suit in the Batman and Detective Comics back-ups. He will use his new Robin suit in his new solo.

However, it seems Damian will have other suits. That's why I say the the Robin suit in Robin #1 may not be his final Robin suit. 


PS: The suit for the back-ups of Batman and Detective Comics isn't discarded. It was always temporary, Williamson already mentioned that there would be another suit (the new Robin suit).

----------


## adrikito

Oh... Ok. Yeah. We don´t know anything about him in Future State and he should be OLDER here..

I hope that he receives good suits.

----------


## Godlike13

Im digging the new suit. Like a lot. Its Robin, yet very Damian. Very cool. The new series is a big relief. I thought Damian was falling to wayside, i did, but thankfully i was wrong. Though what is with the Nightwing villains on the cover. Lady Vic and Nite-Wing lol.

----------


## Katana500

I think this run is going to be awesome. 

Hearing Maya and all Damian's friends will appear is exciting and his pets! Looks like Williamson will be building alot on what has come before!

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> Yeah.. I disliked him and the fans only made me think... Why I see now this??(talking about this Pedo porn with them)
> 
> *I am part of Inuyasha fanbase and I am surprised for how many ships there are in the serie..* I discovered it in twitter because I am watching the Sequel. Inuyasha older brother Seshomaru has ships with Almost every beautiful woman in the serie. These days twitter is in Fire with him because it won his love the predictable girl. 
> 
> I see Weird see many girls in the images but.. I wanted Maya, then Emiko and finally Djinn and nothing happened. I am not interested in more Damian ships anymore. 
> 
> 
> Damnit.. Then Slade will not be too relevant. Maybe for this Rose is here. Because he is not in the comic to be the villain.


The shipping in Inuyasha is a given since it's a romance anime and had a large teenage fanbase lol. I think it's one of the fanbases with the most fanfics.

----------


## Jackalope89

> The shipping in Inuyasha is a given since it's a romance anime and had a large teenage fanbase lol. I think it's one of the fanbases with the most fanfics.


On fanfic.net crossovers, it beats out Dragon Ball Z in terms of sheer numbers of stories. In non crossovers, only Naruto beats it (a jump of 300,000), but still a good lead on others.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I like him kid size. Tim=teen size Dick and Jason=man size and Bruce is Burly man sized


Honestly, Jason is (supposed to be) just a little shorter, but a bit heavier than Bruce. 

But agreed on Damian still being kid-sized.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Wait, this comic is going to pass in the present (after Damian broke up with Bruce), or before (like challenge of super sons)?

----------


## Hypo

> Wait, this comic is going to pass in the present (after Damian broke up with Bruce), or before (like challenge of super sons)?


Present, from the announcement:




> Now that Damian Wayne has severed his ties to both Batman and the Teen Titans...

----------


## Fergus

I noticed his suit has an R and a D, for Robin and Damian?

----------


## Eckri

Aight, the costume will need some time to get used to. 
Luckily he'll get more outfits to test out.

Based on a recent link: https://www.cbr.com/robin-damian-way...comics-series/

If the information in the link is wrong, then oh boy let's wait for more news but here's what the link says.

Robin #1
written by JOSHUA WILLIAMSON
art by GLEB MELNIKOV
cover by GLEB MELNIKOV
wraparound variant cover by GLEB MELNIKOV
team-themed card stock variant cover by ANDY KUBERT
1:25 variant cover by RICCARDO FEDERICI

*"After learning of the deadly League of Lazarus tournament, Damian Wayne has a new mission: to win the tournament and prove he is the greatest fighter in the DC Universe! But first he must find the secret island where the tournament is being held!"*
ON SALE 4/27/21 

Huh, if the preview plot hints this, then Damian is going ala Mortal Kombat story. 
Ah yes, Ra's al Ghul as Shang Tsung and Damian as Liu Kang.

On another note, Maya is coming back? Sweet, hopefully Maps will too.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Present, from the announcement:


I didn't know what "severed" means '^^ sorry.

I said before I want Damian to keep small and with a babie face for more time, but know I am ready to see he grow up, so his size in this cover made me confuse, 14-15 years... hum?

----------


## Rebeca Armus

If they will keep this "R" I think they will say it is for redemption, still think is a pretty dumb idea... I like the old new costume more, it was so unique and cool.

Edit.
Wait, but the name of the comic IS Robin, this is even more confuse

----------


## Restingvoice

> I'm pretty sure that he still died in the New52/Rebirth continuity. And in fact it was partially his inability to save his son, no matter how much he tried, which made Slade become a sort of hero for a time.


Grant did die but there are a few unknown people revived at the end of Death Metal




> I found this today.. I randomly saw the news in my mobile phone. I like to see SLADE and Rose in his life again... 
> *Some recognizes the characters here? I highly doubt that the dude in the cover is Slade.*


Nightwing's old villains. 
Blond guy's Tad, Nightwing fanboy who became Nite-Wing. 
White mask woman is Lady Vic, an assassin. 




> I see.. Hmmm.. I desire good luck to Maya but.. 
> 
> Until I see her I am not expecting too much... Maybe one of the characters in the cover shares the serie with him.
> 
> I am... The only who thinks that I see too many young girls here? 2 girls in the cover, the unknown above Ra´s and Rose.. *
> 
> Attachment 104794
> 
> Ra´s now wants to give him a girlfriend?* 
> ...


Blue girl is a new character is called Flatline




> I didn't know what "severed" means '^^ sorry.


Severed = cut

----------


## DragonPiece

> He's 13. He shouldn't be his own man just yet.


I hope they age him up to 14 for this new seies. Since he's been 13 since rebirth started...

----------


## Konja7

> If they will keep this "R" I think they will say it is for redemption, still think is a pretty dumb idea... I like the old new costume more, it was so unique and cool.
> 
> Edit.
> Wait, but the name of the comic IS Robin, this is even more confuse


Yeah. The name of the comic is Robin. Damian will mantain/recover the Robin identity. 

Williamson has said Damian will have other suits. So, maybe the Robin suit we see in the cover isn't Damian's final Robin suit.

----------


## dietrich

It's exciting to see the buzz surrounding this new Damian solo online. As a Damian fan I'm used to negativity surrounding most things Damian heavy so this is a new experience.

I hope this is a success.

Death note and Tournament arcs, DC's really leaning into anime.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Yeah. The name of the comic is Robin. Damian will mantain/recover the Robin identity. 
> 
> Williamson has said Damian will have other suits. So, maybe the Robin suit we see in the cover isn't Damian's final Robin suit.


I see... but if he is not Robin anymore, I think he would change the name, and if he change the name the comics name should not be Robin... also Tim is Robin again. Unless something happen right before april.
I don't know, it's is like they know would be better get another name but want to use "Robin" for get more attention and sell better :/

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> It's exciting to see the buzz surrounding this new Damian solo online. As a Damian fan I'm used to negativity surrounding most things Damian heavy so this is a new experience.
> 
> I hope this is a success.
> 
> Death note and Tournament arcs, DC's really leaning into anime.


I hope this too <3 I have my dislikes with a couple of things, but wanted a Damian's solo since so long =u= he is not going to disappears ❤

----------


## Konja7

> I see... but if he is not Robin anymore, I think he would change the name, and if he change the name the comics name should not be Robin... also Tim is Robin again. Unless something happen right before april.
> I don't know, it's is like they know would be better get another name but want to use "Robin" for get more attention and sell better :/


Damian is mantaining/recovering the Robin title for his new ongoing. 

That's why DC still call him Robin for the back-up in Batman and Detective Comics. 

The current suit of Damian in the Robin ongoing will likely change, but his new suit will still be a Robin suit.


Maybe I wasn't clear (English isn't my main language), but I wasn't trying to imply Damian will stop to be Robin. 

In any case, it is Tim who will likely stop to be Robin and change identity.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Damian is mantaining/recovering the Robin title for his new ongoing. 
> 
> That's why DC still call him Robin for the back-up in Batman and Detective Comics. 
> 
> The current suit of Damian in the Robin ongoing will likely change, but his new suit will still be a Robin suit.
> 
> 
> Maybe I wasn't clear (English isn't my main language), but I wasn't trying to imply Damian will stop to be Robin. 
> 
> In any case, it is Tim who will likely stop to be Robin and change identity.


Hummm let's see how they will do this, I hope Damian-Tim-Robin title be well write.
Don't worry, English is not my fist language too '^^.
I am from Brazil, where are you guys from? (@w@)/?

----------


## Rac7d*

> I hope they age him up to 14 for this new seies. Since he's been 13 since rebirth started...


He can’t age up until Selina gets pregnant

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> He can’t age up until Selina gets pregnant


I though about it, I don't read Batman, but she and Bruce was together for a time, right? But recently they broke up, right? So maybe Selina IS pregnant right now, we are just not seeing her recently.

----------


## Astralabius

> I though about it, I don't read Batman, but she and Bruce was together for a time, right? But recently they broke up, right? So maybe Selina IS pregnant right now, we are just not seeing her recently.


Pretty sure she got shot in the stomach in the first Catwoman issue after they broke up, so no.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> He can’t age up until Selina gets pregnant


It's funny cause it's true. But he should be 14 by now if every other character in his generation is already 15/16.

----------


## Rac7d*

> It's funny cause it's true. But he should be 14 by now if every other character in his generation is already 15/16.


So he should be the same age as Tim ?

----------


## adrikito

> Grant did die but there are a few unknown people revived at the end of Death Metal
> 
> 
> 
> Nightwing's old villains. 
> Blond guy's Tad, Nightwing fanboy who became Nite-Wing. 
> White mask woman is Lady Vic, an assassin. 
> 
> 
> ...


FLAT-LINE?? WTF... First I heard about one PUNCH-LINE  and now this? lol

Yeah. I recognized them in another topic thanks to one user comments..

----------


## Restingvoice

> So he should be the same age as Tim ?


Steph is 19 now so Tim should be 18. Not official yet though.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

Also in April, Jorge Jimenez is doing a Batman and Robin story in Batman Black & White!




>  Superstar Batman artist Jorge Jimenez writes and illustrates a story starring Bruce and Damian Wayne as they try to prepare for a sting operation as Batman and Robin, with Damian questioning Bruce's methods every step of the way.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Also in April, Jorge Jimenez is doing a Batman and Robin story in Batman Black & White!


Batman and Robin 
The dynamic duo is back

----------


## adrikito

> Batman and Robin 
> The dynamic duo is back


If we could replace Bruce for Dick it would be PERFECT.

----------


## dietrich

> If we could replace Bruce for Dick it would be PERFECT.


Na Damian and Dick have plenty of team ups. It's better if it's Bruce and Damian though this looks like it's following Tomasi's B&R which isn't really a Dynamic duo teaming up working together.

I fear from the solicits that Jorge might not know Damian's character well ... sigh

----------


## CPSparkles

> Also in April, Jorge Jimenez is doing a Batman and Robin story in Batman Black & White!


3 Damian stories in April. I must be dreaming.

----------


## CPSparkles

https://spaceboykenny.tumblr.com

----------


## CPSparkles

I wonder was this what glass meant when he said the mandate to remove Damian from Robin was one step back two steps forward?

He did urge readers to wait and see where the story goes.

----------


## CPSparkles

Lol at Damian fans.

This tweet from Gleb

'guys, I appreciate your enthusiasm, but please, don't dm us your storyline ideas, it doesn't work that way'

https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...04074533642242

----------


## Frontier

> I wonder was this what glass meant when he said the mandate to remove Damian from Robin was one step back two steps forward?
> 
> He did urge readers to wait and see where the story goes.


Well, with Didio and 5G gone, plans my have changed.

----------


## Astralabius

> I wonder was this what glass meant when he said the mandate to remove Damian from Robin was one step back two steps forward?
> 
> He did urge readers to wait and see where the story goes.


I don't think that what we'll be seeing in March and April is what Glass was aiming for with his story, as Frontier already pointed out this was all supposed to lead to 5G.

There was already a difference in directions between what Glass wrote and what Thompson wrote, Thompson made Damian kill again, but also tried to (belatedly) explain Damian's actions with what happened with Dick and Alfred, events that Glass simply ignored. Also, Damian was originally not even supposed to be in Thompson's run, the original plan was for Damian to leave after Djinn War before they changed plans and put the second annual after issue #44. We don't know how much Glass was involved in those changes to the plan, perhaps he was even excluded completely.

Tomasi's arc in Detective Comics was mostly damage control. What Damian did in TT was kept pretty vague and the focus was on Damian punching Bruce in the face, quitting as Robin and feeling sad about Alfred. The more controversial and unpopular parts of Teen Titans got swept under the rug. Damian was almost back to normal, didn't try to kill anybody and kinda made up with Bruce by the end of the arc.
And now we're getting a new Robin ongoing (plus Damian wearing the R again) after only one arc where he wasn't Robin, but helped Bruce with Hush, so he was kinda acting in that position anyway.
Together with Williamson openly stating that he wants to put Damian back on the heroes journey all of this looks to me like DC wants to put Teen Titans and Damian quitting as Robin behind them fast.

----------


## Jackalope89

Damian back as Robin is good. The new suit is different, and I don't hate it. Just will take time to put it with the title "Robin". At least one thing is going to be good post-Future State, aside from Super Sons. Even sweeping the last arc or so of Teen Titans under the rug works for me (I stopped with the end of Djinn War anyway). 

Speaking of Super Sons; just need to get a certain half-Kryptonian back to the right age and I'll be more relaxed about the future of DC.

----------


## Blue22

> I wonder was this what glass meant when he said the mandate to remove Damian from Robin was one step back two steps forward?
> 
> He did urge readers to wait and see where the story goes.


Considering it doesn't fit with Didio's typical, depression inducing, Zack Snyder-esque vision for the DC Universe, I doubt it. Everything that's happened with Damian after he left the Titans feels like full on damage control. Especially with Tomasi kinda...sweeping most of his misdeeds under the rug and continuing that nonsense Thompson started about how he's just acting out because Alfred died. Even though Damian was going down this road WELL before Alfred's death.

I'm happy Damian is recovering but I'm still not happy that they seem to be ignoring most of what he'd done and trivialized his falling out with Bruce into teen angst over his grandpa's death. That doesn't really do him any favors.

Kinda hoping Williamson doesn't continue that trend. I don't like mistakes being fixed by acting like they didn't happen. Acknowledge they happened and make the character learn from them.




> Speaking of Super Sons; just need to get a certain half-Kryptonian back to the right age and I'll be more relaxed about the future of DC.


You probably won't be relaxing anytime soon. Damian may have recovered from Didio's reign but Jon's pretty much a lost cause at this point. Maybe the new writer can make something good out of who we have now. Who knows? I don't really care enough to find out. The Superboy you and I are waiting for is basically dead.

----------


## KrustyKid

Really excited for the first arc, love the whole tournament aspect. Can't wait to see who will all be competing. Hopefully we get some new, interesting, and fun characters out of the gate. Long due Damian got his own personal enemies. Hopefully he smokes the competition

----------


## Blue22

> Really excited for the first arc, love the whole tournament aspect. Can't wait to see who will all be competing. Hopefully we get some new, interesting, and fun characters out of the gate. Long due Damian got his own personal enemies. *Hopefully he smokes the competition*


That all depends on who the competition is. Defeating Slade (yes I know, that's not him in the art we saw) or any of his children? Okay, sure. Slade might be pushing it but it'd be far from the first time he was defeated by a teenager. 

But if characters like Shiva, Bronze Tiger, and Cheshire are involved I _might_ have to call some BS on him winning.

Damian is an amazing fighter. But I don't think he's *that* amazing. Even when we disregard his loss to Thomas Wayne that had no logical reason for happening.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I think Slade losing for Damian so forced, hero comics don't keep characters force, I think Stan Lee said "who wins is who the writer decides", Damian is weaker than Tim when it is easier for the story, also less independent when he is with Maya, for example.
I really dislike this inconsistence :/

In Damian's case, many times I think he loses just for underestimates his adversaries, and I think this matches with his personality, but in other times I just don't think it was well wrote :/

----------


## Wingin' It

> That all depends on who the competition is. Defeating Slade (yes I know, that's not him in the art we saw) or any of his children? Okay, sure. Slade might be pushing it but it'd be far from the first time he was defeated by a teenager. 
> 
> But if characters like Shiva, Bronze Tiger, and Cheshire are involved I _might_ have to call some BS on him winning.
> 
> Damian is an amazing fighter. But I don't think he's *that* amazing. Even when we disregard his loss to Thomas Wayne that had no logical reason for happening.


Don't get me wrong, I like Damian and I think he's a skilled fighter, but him beating Deathstroke in a 1v1 would be a pretty egregious case of jobbing. This was the same qualm I had with the DCAMU movies. But I'll reserve judgement till we see issue #1!  :Smile:

----------


## KrustyKid

> That all depends on who the competition is. Defeating Slade (yes I know, that's not him in the art we saw) or any of his children? Okay, sure. Slade might be pushing it but it'd be far from the first time he was defeated by a teenager. 
> 
> But if characters like Shiva, Bronze Tiger, and Cheshire are involved I _might_ have to call some BS on him winning.
> 
> Damian is an amazing fighter. But I don't think he's *that* amazing. Even when we disregard his loss to Thomas Wayne that had no logical reason for happening.


True that, it depends who is all there. Damian is also a solid tactician, so whatever skill gap their may be he can close with some handy tricks.

----------


## Digifiend

> I don't think that what we'll be seeing in March and April is what Glass was aiming for with his story, as Frontier already pointed out this was all supposed to lead to 5G.
> 
> There was already a difference in directions between what Glass wrote and what Thompson wrote, Thompson made Damian kill again, but also tried to (belatedly) explain Damian's actions with what happened with Dick and Alfred, events that Glass simply ignored. Also, Damian was originally not even supposed to be in Thompson's run, the original plan was for Damian to leave after Djinn War before they changed plans and put the second annual after issue #44. We don't know how much Glass was involved in those changes to the plan, perhaps he was even excluded completely.


I think that's what happened. Glass wrote Djinn War, but then Thompson came in and did some rewrites. They were co-credited for that arc and then Thompson took over the book.

----------


## Morgoth

> Thompson made Damian kill again


By the way, if it was part of rewrites, I really don't understand why Thompson did this. Eventually it was just one more thing Bat-office decided to forget about.

----------


## Restingvoice

Er5kP-lWMAAGQvR.jpg
the inks

----------


## Fergus

> Er5kP-lWMAAGQvR.jpg
> the inks


Nice. Really looking forward to this title. Williamson said he pitched this way back when Rebirth started. On twitter he revealed he's been pitching for Damian since his Robin/Supergirl one-shot way back. Finally got one approved. Lets go!

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> By the way, if it was part of rewrites, I really don't understand why Thompson did this. Eventually it was just one more thing Bat-office decided to forget about.


XD true
...
Maybe they talk about it in the future...

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Er5kP-lWMAAGQvR.jpg
> the inks


Can you post the link?

----------


## Restingvoice

> Can you post the link?


Gleb's twitter

Oh apparently now people are starting to call Gleb Melnikov Big Gleb ^^
https://twitter.com/FormerlyAizo/sta...27767555547136

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/yuki11_dc

----------


## Astralabius

> By the way, if it was part of rewrites, I really don't understand why Thompson did this. Eventually it was just one more thing Bat-office decided to forget about.


It's really strange. I guess DC was in a really difficult place where plans changed constantly at the time. Maybe they still had plans for Damian to become an anti-hero/villain at the time they started this and maybe the book where Damian was supposed to kill someons after he left the team after Djinn War got cancelled so they decided to do it in Teen Titans instead? Wasn't Damian supposed to show up in Checkmate by Bendis (aka the guy who wanted Damian to turn into Hitler 2.0 for his Legion of Superheroes book)?

We probably don't even know the original ending to Djinn War. The last issue of Djinn War came out after the DC lockdown and I remember the ending where Damian basically tries to convince the others they need to kill villains not fitting with the rest of arc. I'm certain it was changed to set up the changed arc that came afterwards. Who knows what happened in the original script.

Another  possibility is that someone wanted to salvage the rest of Damian's team and thought that making Damian kill again and blaming everything on him would make readers forget about what the others did. Sounds unlikely because DC usually puts bat-characters over new characters with no ties to Batman, but sometimes DC's decisions are simply weird.

Whatever the real reason was, we can only speculate and that is difficult with the few things we know.

----------


## Astralabius

Speaking of Legion of Superheroes, I remember someone on the team saying the founded the team because they wanted to prevent the timeline where Damian became Hitler 2.0 in the third (?) issue. Did they ever follow up on that?
I also don't remember the book being in the solicitations for March or April, is it cancelled?
I know there is a Future State: Legion of Superheroes book but I don't know if that is connected to any of the Bendis stuff or not.

----------


## Drako

> Er5kP-lWMAAGQvR.jpg
> the inks


Any ideia of who is the guy with the nunchaku that looks like a bat character?

----------


## Korath

> It's really strange. I guess DC was in a really difficult place where plans changed constantly at the time. Maybe they still had plans for Damian to become an anti-hero/villain at the time they started this and maybe the book where Damian was supposed to kill someons after he left the team after Djinn War got cancelled so they decided to do it in Teen Titans instead? Wasn't Damian supposed to show up in Checkmate by Bendis (aka the guy who wanted Damian to turn into Hitler 2.0 for his Legion of Superheroes book)?


A correction : Chameleon Boy said that and Brainiac 5 immediately said that it was a deeply unfair assesment of who Damian Wayne was. He was never meant to be Hitler-like, but he was clearly meant to be a more ambiguous figure than most other DC characters, which makes perfect sense considering who Damian is.

----------


## Blue22

Much like the entire Batfamily jobbing to Thomas Wayne, I just like to pretend the whole "baby Hitler" thing didn't happen. I know I just got done saying I don't like mistakes being swept under the rug but like....those are exceptions.

----------


## Astralabius

> A correction : Chameleon Boy said that and Brainiac 5 immediately said that it was a deeply unfair assesment of who Damian Wayne was. He was never meant to be Hitler-like, but he was clearly meant to be a more ambiguous figure than most other DC characters, which makes perfect sense considering who Damian is.


If everyone save for one member of a huge team considers it fair to compare you to Hitler then I wouldn't consider that ambiguous.
Several of them seemed straight up afraid of him.

----------


## Korath

> If everyone save for one member of a huge team considers it fair to compare you to Hitler then I wouldn't consider that ambiguous.
> Several of them seemed straight up afraid of him.


Sure, but only Brainiac 5 has been show to truly knows what happened or at mleast have more than a passing interest in Earth history, so I'd say his words are of greater worth in that regard. He knows that Damian did something(s) which are morally debatable but still it's clear he doesn't consider this comparison to hold any water, which is the most important element of this whole exchange to me. That and the fact that it was clearly there to (a) explain why there would be no Bat in the Legion and (b) highlight even more that te=hey were hiding a lot of things from Jon, which ended spectatcularly backfiring on them.

----------


## Batman Begins 2005

The best Damian Wayne/Robin costume:

.

The Rebirth version of the above was too cluttered. Like this new costume. Switch the collar for the trademark hood.

----------


## dietrich

> The best Damian Wayne/Robin costume:
> 
> .
> 
> The Rebirth version of the above was too cluttered. Like this new costume. Switch the collar for the trademark hood.


I love this costume too

----------


## Restingvoice

Hmm... since there are different type of Robin capes, I like the original for Dick and Jason since they're the trapeze artists, the bird feather type for Tim and Steph since their era was when they use the bird image instead of Robin Hood, and the current bat wing cape for Damian, since he's the Son of The Bat.

----------


## Blue22

> The best Damian Wayne/Robin costume:
> 
> .
> 
> The Rebirth version of the above was too cluttered. Like this new costume. Switch the collar for the trademark hood.


Oh wow. I thought I was the only one who preferred this over his rebirth costume (only thing I'd change is the cape. Make it black). I'd say its my favorite of his looks  but....I REALLY like the one he has now and the one he'll have in Williamson's book.

----------


## adrikito

It was not unexpected(after the last TT run) but... It seems that the EmikoxKidFlash will be a thing soon...


Damian is really UNLUCKY.. I thought that he had a change long time ago with her but nothing.  :Frown: 


Is like DC wants that those pedophiles that ship him with Superkid in disgusting *+18 fanarts*(No, not talking only about kisses) continue like that not allowing Damian to have any girlfriend.  :Frown: 





> Any ideia of who is the guy with the nunchaku that looks like a bat character?


I heard that is NITE-WING here. A Nightwing villain.

----------


## Morgoth

> hat not allowing Damian to have any girlfriend


Maybe Williamson will set something up with Maya or Flatline.
It will happen someday anyway, lol.

----------


## Blue22

I don't know enough about Flatline to decide whether or not I want that but as for Maya, absolutely not. She's made it pretty clear, more than once, the kind of relationship they have. And I'd like it to stay that way.

The only character I've really liked the idea of Damian being with is Djinn. But even that comes with some issues given the 4,000 year gap in their ages.

That said...Damian doesn't really need a girl(or boy)friend. I'm perfectly fine with him just not having a love interest for a very long time.




> Is like DC wants that those pedophiles that ship him with Superkid in disgusting *+18 fanarts*(No, not talking only about kisses) continue like that not allowing Damian to have any girlfriend.


If there's one thing you gotta know about hardcore shippers, it's that they're gonna ship their ships, regardless. DC could make Damian a bigger playa than Bruce and Dick put together and he'll still have that subset of fans who ship him with Jon. Fandoms *love* their LGBT ships. Just look at all the Iron Man and Captain America shippers lol

----------


## Jackalope89

> I don't know enough about Flatline to decide whether or not I want that but as for Maya, absolutely not. She's made it pretty clear, more than once, the kind of relationship they have. And I'd like it to stay that way.
> 
> The only character I've really liked the idea of Damian being with is Djinn. But even that comes with some issues given the 4,000 year gap in their ages.
> 
> That said...Damian doesn't really need a girl(or boy)friend. I'm perfectly fine with him just not having a love interest for a very long time.
> 
> 
> 
> If there's one thing you gotta know about hardcore shippers, it's that they're gonna ship their ships, regardless. DC could make Damian a bigger playa than Bruce and Dick put together and he'll still have that subset of fans who ship him with Jon. Fandoms *love* their LGBT ships. Just look at all the Iron Man and Captain America shippers lol


Worse, look at all the Supernatural shippers that put Dean and Sam (brothers) together. Or Dragon Ball shippers with Goku and Bra (don't ask me why, but they exist). Shippers may ship, but some of them have some pretty big issues with their ships.

----------


## Blue22

> Worse, look at all the Supernatural shippers that put Dean and Sam (brothers) together.


Hell, if you venture deep enough into tumblr you'll find plenty of ships between Batfamily members. The internet has no shame.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> Is like DC wants that those pedophiles that ship him with Superkid in disgusting *+18 fanarts*(No, not talking only about kisses) continue like that not allowing Damian to have any girlfriend.


Even if he had a girlfriend they would still ship him with Jon. What websites are you browsing? Can't you put it on safe mode and block +18 fanart?

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> Worse, look at all the Supernatural shippers that put Dean and Sam (brothers) together. Or Dragon Ball shippers with Goku and Bra (don't ask me why, but they exist). Shippers may ship, but some of them have some pretty big issues with their ships.


In Supernatural, it's probably because they didn't develop relationships outside the one between Dean and Sam enough. Shippers pair up whichever characters have the strongest relationship, they do it with straight ships too (Reylo, Katara and Zuko). It's like two characters can't have a strong relationship without it being romantic.

----------


## Jackalope89

> In Supernatural, it's probably because they didn't develop relationships outside the one between Dean and Sam enough. Shippers pair up whichever characters have the strongest relationship, they do it with straight ships too (Reylo, Katara and Zuko). It's like two characters can't have a strong relationship without it being romantic.


Has nothing to do with strong relationships. Can't count how many times I've seen people pair Goku up with Vados or Caulifla. The latter, they had a few episodes, tops. Some of which were when she was fused. With Vados, they've barely interacted. Then, to circle this thing back to Damian, you have shippers of Damian and Marinette of Miraculous Ladybug, when they've never had a crossover.

----------


## Eckri

So Challenge of the Supersons issue#6 released.
*spoilers:*
With Felix Faust and Vandal Savage learning of their defeats in the future thanks to Superboy and Robin, they plan a centuries long traps to kill the members of the Justice League. Hence why the Doom Scroll. Luckily, with Aurora's aid they were plunged back into the present to stop them. This issue is just the boys saving HawkGirl, the first few panels is just Damian explaining the story then concluding why he knocked HawkGirl with her mace. And then there's Jon holding in his breath some deadly toxic clouds. Ends with Vandal Savage taking Rora hostage. 
Overall, nothing much happened just see what awaits
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Wingin' It

> Has nothing to do with strong relationships. Can't count how many times I've seen people pair Goku up with Vados or Caulifla. The latter, they had a few episodes, tops. Some of which were when she was fused. With Vados, they've barely interacted. Then, to circle this thing back to Damian, you have shippers of Damian and Marinette of Miraculous Ladybug, when they've never had a crossover.


Call me crazy but I do truly believe that a lot of MxM shipping is due to the fact that male characters are often far more fleshed out than female ones, and their platonic relationships are often more intense and explored in more depth than the relationships between women or heterosexual love interests. They are more realized characters, and women learn to project themselves onto dudes as a result. Obviously, it's a bit better than it used to be these days.

----------


## Konja7

> Call me crazy but I do truly believe that a lot of MxM shipping is due to the fact that male characters are often far more fleshed out than female ones, and their platonic relationships are often more intense and explored in more depth than the relationships between women or heterosexual love interests. They are more realized characters, and women learn to project themselves onto dudes as a result. Obviously, it's a bit better than it used to be these days.


It could just be that they like relationship between male characters. 

In a good amount of shonen-ai/yaoi stories, one of the male characters could have exactly the same role a traditional female character has.

BL romance doesn't need a strong relationship either. A good amount of BL shippers could ship pretty shallow relationships.

----------


## Wingin' It

> It could just be that they like relationship between male characters. 
> 
> In a good amount of shonen-ai/yaoi stories, one of the male characters could have exactly the same role a traditional female character has.


Oh, absolutely that is the case, I just want to acknowledge that there's another component to the abundance of slash shipping.

----------


## sifighter

Well Jace may be Batman in a future earth, remember Damian’s Batman on his own anti-life world today in the finale to Dead Planet.

slight spoilers 

*spoilers:*
 Damian gets to Batman it up as he helps Jon break into the Australia base, even gets to destroy an Amazo, does a little light detective work and he gets to help Cyborg take down the Amazo army killing humanity. He was a much better Batman to Cyborg then his father ever was I’ll tell you that.  :Stick Out Tongue:  
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Jman27

so Damian quit being Robin for like what a month at best?

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> so Damian quit being Robin for like what a month at best?


He quitted in August, c'mon, it has been a while.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

The last DCeased: Dead Planet came out,

*spoilers:*
It has a pretty nice ending, they are able to save everyone, but there's a unsolved too. Superman absorbing the sun and anti-life Darkseid are still out there, so I'm pretty sure we will have a thrid part, but it will take a while. Maybe next year? 

Either way, I loved seeing Jon and Damian as Superman and Batman in this universe, I will definitely miss them.
*end of spoilers*

And still nothing about Damian in Future State.  :Frown:

----------


## Jman27

> He quitted in August, c'mon, it has been a while.


I meant like in story time how long was it

----------


## Rac7d*

> I meant like in story time how long was it


Irrelevant time doesn’t go by people don’t age it’s a comic

----------


## Jackalope89

> Irrelevant time doesnt go by *people dont age* its a comic

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Call me crazy but I do truly believe that a lot of MxM shipping is due to the fact that male characters are often far more fleshed out than female ones, and their platonic relationships are often more intense and explored in more depth than the relationships between women or heterosexual love interests. They are more realized characters, and women learn to project themselves onto dudes as a result. Obviously, it's a bit better than it used to be these days.


Agree, there is many male friends that are "I would die for you" "I will follow you whatever you go" and has something that too deep for not ship, and there is a relationship well construct in years of story. Heterosexual couples ending being more about people that are physical attract for each other, I think.
I don't like NarutoxSasuke or NarutoxSakura, but they are two of the many examples of this.
Also MxM hardly become canon couples because society still is too much homophobic, I talked about it before, but Deadpool is pansexual and never kissed a guy or trans in comics, he normally just do jokes with his pansexuality.

Of course there is just smut BL, it's normal.

My favorite gay canon couple is Harly! What a well done cute sexy couple!!!

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I meant like in story time how long was it


Kind impossible to calculate... I would say more than 4 months and less than 9 months

----------


## Rac7d*

> Kind impossible to calculate... I would say more than 4 months and less than 9 months


4-9 months go by every ear in story but this years never add up

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> 4-9 months go by every ear in story but this years never add up


When Damian went from 10 to 13 it did.
But I got you, generally means nothing.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I just saw Superman & Louis trailer, I don't think Damian will show up... </3
Any thoughts?

----------


## Fergus

> I just saw Superman & Louis trailer, I don't think Damian will show up... </3
> Any thoughts?


Damian won't show up why would he? Because Jon?

It's a Superman family show.

Bat characters are everywhere. I don't want him in this.

----------


## Blue22

Yeah, I remember people predicting Damian would be in it back before we knew the two boys were both Clark's kids. But after we learned that was the case, there really wasn't much of a reason to believe he'd have anything to do with this show.

I don't think I'd really want him in this, anyway.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Damian won't show up why would he? Because Jon?
> 
> It's a Superman family show.
> 
> Bat characters are everywhere. I don't want him in this.


I know, I don't like how DC always make things about Batman, I though he could appears in one episode without being truly important for the story, just a "hellooooo look the universes connectedsss, did you get this refereeenceee?", like in Harley...? Anyway, will not happen.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Yeah, I remember people predicting Damian would be in it back before we knew the two boys were both Clark's kids. But after we learned that was the case, there really wasn't much of a reason to believe he'd have anything to do with this show.
> 
> I don't think I'd really want him in this, anyway.


This version of Jon looks like a douché

----------


## Blue22

((If anyone knows who the artist is, lemme know so I can credit them))

This just makes me want some kind of animated series for these guys even more. Here's hoping Maya's appearance in the upcoming Robin title is something meaningful.

----------


## Batman Begins 2005

> The best Damian Wayne/Robin costume:
> 
> .
> 
> The Rebirth version of the above was too cluttered. Like this new costume. Switch the collar for the trademark hood.





> I love this costume too





> Oh wow. I thought I was the only one who preferred this over his rebirth costume (only thing I'd change is the cape. Make it black). I'd say its my favorite of his looks  but....I REALLY like the one he has now and the one he'll have in Williamson's book.


Cool we agree that's Damian Wayne's best Robin costume. Cheers!

----------


## Blue22

Yeah. Though Williamson's is a close second. I kinda go back and forth between the two in terms of which I love more lol

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> ((If anyone knows who the artist is, lemme know so I can credit them))
> 
> This just makes me want some kind of animated series for these guys even more. Here's hoping Maya's appearance in the upcoming Robin title is something meaningful.


This is from @gozerdor on ig :3

----------


## Frontier

> ((If anyone knows who the artist is, lemme know so I can credit them))
> 
> This just makes me want some kind of animated series for these guys even more. Here's hoping Maya's appearance in the upcoming Robin title is something meaningful.


This is to cute for words...but man, Kathy really got screwed over during the Bendis era.

----------


## Jackalope89

> This is to cute for words...but man, Kathy really got screwed over during the Bendis era.


That she did. Those four would honestly make a great animated series. Fun adventures, interesting and contrasting personalities, and a plethora of ways for their adventures to go. With plenty of room for guest appearances.

----------


## Eckri

No signs of Damian in Future State but here's something from the Future State Wonderwoman comic: Immortal Wonderwoman. 
In the Batcave.
Maps-Robin V.2.jpg
Huh, look at that Robin costume. 
So Bruce did get a new Robin.

----------


## sifighter

> No signs of Damian in Future State but here's something from the Future State Wonderwoman comic: Immortal Wonderwoman. 
> In the Batcave.
> Maps-Robin V.2.jpg
> Huh, look at that Robin costume. 
> So Bruce did get a new Robin.


It looks more like a reference to the upcoming Batman black and white issue where Maps (Gotham Academy) is Robin.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> It looks more like a reference to the upcoming Batman black and white issue where Maps (Gotham Academy) is Robin.


That, and also the writer of Immortal Wonder Woman, Becky Cloonan, also made Gotham Academy, so this is like a double reference.




> No signs of Damian in Future State but here's something from the Future State Wonderwoman comic: Immortal Wonderwoman.


But yeah, so far nothing of Damian in Future State. I'm so frustrated with this whole event, you have no idea.

----------


## ZuLuLu

> ((If anyone knows who the artist is, lemme know so I can credit them)).


These four had so much potential, DC really stumbled with the direction they went with both Jon and Damian

----------


## Astralabius

> But yeah, so far nothing of Damian in Future State. I'm so frustrated with this whole event, you have no idea.


I can't wait for March to arrive. I'm not really interested in alternate future events that don't have my favourite characters in major roles.

----------


## Batman Begins 2005

The chemistry between Dick Grayson's Batman and Damian Wayne's Robin was perfect. Miss that tandem. I LOVE Batman and Robin #1-16 by Grant Morrison.

----------


## Restingvoice

"Blocking" - Gleb
EskxX2CWMAAw9IN.jpg
Apparently underneath all that skin Damian is an Astro Boy
"see I knew that thing isn't human" - Tim Drake

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> "Blocking" - Gleb
> EskxX2CWMAAw9IN.jpg
> Apparently underneath all that skin Damian is an Astro Boy
> "see I knew that thing isn't human" - Tim Drake


I wonder what the caption means.

Also, not so long ago, he shared this panel that Joshua Williamson retweeted, so I guess it's something important:

----------


## Astralabius

> I wonder what the caption means.
> 
> Also, not so long ago, he shared this panel that Joshua Williamson retweeted, so I guess it's something important:


The caption was "blocking in", which just means that he started drawing the rough shapes. It's a wip.

The solicitations for the backups and for Robin #1 only mention the League of Lazarus as antagonists, I assume those two men belong to them.

----------


## Restingvoice

Robin variant cover Andy Kubert and I - Brad Anderson (colorist)
Esn0pvcVkAAtXMl.jpg
https://twitter.com/bdanderson13/sta...82165327458304

----------


## Morgoth

https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...93535931355137

----------


## Blue22

> https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...93535931355137


Whelp. My soul just cried.

----------


## KrustyKid

> https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...93535931355137


Oh, the good times

----------


## Jackalope89

> https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...93535931355137


Yes! All the yes!

----------


## Restingvoice

The ink wash is done!
EsraXxxXMAcjG6J.jpg
The way Jon looks at him... soft... it's probably the ink wash, but still, soft...  :3
https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...34743760121862

----------


## Frontier

Damian will be the main character of a new graphic novel from writer/artist Jeffrey Brown titled "Batman and Robin and Howard."

----------


## dietrich

> Damian will be the main character of a new graphic novel from writer/artist Jeffrey Brown titled "Batman and Robin and Howard."


I'm here for overbearing dad Bruce.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Damian will be the main character of a new graphic novel from writer/artist Jeffrey Brown titled "Batman and Robin and Howard."


Bruce is smiling so I’m down

----------


## Jackalope89

> Damian will be the main character of a new graphic novel from writer/artist Jeffrey Brown titled "Batman and Robin and Howard."


"Damian" looks an awful lot like how Dick Grayson would.

----------


## Frontier

> "Damian" looks an awful lot like how Dick Grayson would.


Well, hair-wise, yeah, although I think the base costume is like a cartoony version of Damian's original Robin costume.

----------


## Restingvoice

Yea looking at the art and premise, it's just a generic Robin using Damian's name

----------


## Frontier

> Yea it's just a generic Robin using Damian's name


Well, the Robin is Batman's biological son so you could really only use one of them...

----------


## Hypo



----------


## Blue22

> Yea looking at the art and premise, it's just a generic Robin using Damian's name


So the Ninja Batman movie all over again lol

----------


## CPSparkles

> Yea looking at the art and premise, it's just a generic Robin using Damian's name


The premise definitely isn't generic Robin. 

The Robin who feels he's too cool for school can really only be applied to Damian.
Similarly the Robin who needs to learn how to be 'a regular kid' also only applies to Damian.

It is pretty much a fleshed out version of Damian's Supersons 1st few arc's

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

Not really Damian news but if you need a good laugh:

----------


## CPSparkles

> Not really Damian news but if you need a good laugh:


Oh wow!

lol The Robin in the Hood is getting confused with RobinHood

----------


## Morgoth

After Williamson interview I got the impression that Damian will be set-up to eventually become part of Totality. Maybe it's the reason why he's absent in Future State.

----------


## dietrich

> 


This is cool.

----------


## Light of Justice

> The premise definitely isn't generic Robin. 
> 
> The Robin who feels he's too cool for school can really only be applied to Damian.
> Similarly the Robin who needs to learn how to be 'a regular kid' also only applies to Damian.
> 
> It is pretty much a fleshed out version of Damian's Supersons 1st few arc's


Tbh the premise reminds me of Ian Wayne

----------


## Restingvoice

> The premise definitely isn't generic Robin. 
> 
> The Robin who feels he's too cool for school can really only be applied to Damian.
> Similarly the Robin who needs to learn how to be 'a regular kid' also only applies to Damian.
> 
> It is pretty much a fleshed out version of Damian's Supersons 1st few arc's


The Robin who's too cool for school can be applied to anyone. Modern Dicks have been depicted as a jock bored with school, Jason outside of a select few who actually read old comics has a bad boy rep, and there's New 52 Tim and streetwise crossbreeding of Tim and Jason in TNBA. 

What I see here is a premise of a young daredevil that has to mingle with the mundane. The author said, pretty much, that he wants to take these larger than life superheroes to the real world, to us, and make a story that we can be heroes too. That's a generic premise that can be used on any character.

----------


## Aahz

Original pre flashpoint Tim was also usually not that interested in school.

IIRC the only Robins who liked school, were Dick during the Golden and Silver Age, and post crisis Jason.

----------


## Frontier

We all remember how long Damian lasted at Gotham Academy...

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> Damian will be the main character of a new graphic novel from writer/artist Jeffrey Brown titled "Batman and Robin and Howard."


To be honest, it really doesn't seem like a really Damian Damian, but since this is a kids book out of continuity, I don't really mind. And a character having their name attached to projects is good, so I see this as a positive thing. It seems like a cute story, I will definetely try to read it once it is out.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Hummmmm, I didn't like it =__= but I will try, weird how this Damian is using Dick/Jason's Robin costume.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Is some Damian's stuff going to be released in february/march? Besides Super Sons?

----------


## Morgoth

I'm not sure about February, but in March there will be back-ups in Batman and 'Tec, they will serve as prologue for Damian's ongoing.

----------


## Astralabius

> Is some Damian's stuff going to be released in february/march? Besides Super Sons?


For February only Super Sons is confirmed. Challenge of the Super Sons will come back February 15.
Dead Planet is over.
So far he hasn't been in Future State. Talia might talk to Bruce about him in the Catwoman book, but that's just a possibility.

In March he might be in Infinite Frontier #0, but that's not confirmed. He has the backup stories in Batman #106 and Detective Comics #1334 though.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> For February only Super Sons is confirmed. Challenge of the Super Sons will come back February 15.
> Dead Planet is over.
> So far he hasn't been in Future State. Talia might talk to Bruce about him in the Catwoman book, but that's just a possibility.
> 
> In March he might be in Infinite Frontier #0, but that's not confirmed. He has the backup stories in Batman #106 and Detective Comics #1334 though.


Wwwooowww tank you >3<)/

----------


## Rac7d*

> For February only Super Sons is confirmed. Challenge of the Super Sons will come back February 15.
> Dead Planet is over.
> So far he hasn't been in Future State. Talia might talk to Bruce about him in the Catwoman book, but that's just a possibility.
> 
> In March he might be in Infinite Frontier #0, but that's not confirmed. He has the backup stories in Batman #106 and Detective Comics #1334 though.


I think that was a mistake supersons is returning in march

----------


## Astralabius

> I think that was a mistake supersons is returning in march


Yeah, I posted this before Tomasi corrected himself.

----------


## Blue22

https://twitter.com/SeanIzaakse/stat...60342122332161

----------


## the1&onlyE.

Seeing fanart with Damian's new costume is making me like it even more! I'm really excited to see it in action once Robin starts, and to see the other costumes Gleb made.

Btw, now that there's Future State: Gotham, I wonder if there's any chance Damian will be in it. So far we still don't know anything about what happened to him in this future, but maybe we will know before February ends, and maybe it can be expanded in this book?

----------


## CPSparkles

> Seeing fanart with Damian's new costume is making me like it even more! I'm really excited to see it in action once Robin starts, and to see the other costumes Gleb made.
> 
> Btw, now that there's Future State: Gotham, I wonder if there's any chance Damian will be in it. So far we still don't know anything about what happened to him in this future, but maybe we will know before February ends, and maybe it can be expanded in this book?


Do you think so? I wonder what Damian is doing in Future State?

----------


## CPSparkles

> https://twitter.com/SeanIzaakse/stat...60342122332161


I like this a lot.

----------


## Aahz

Is "Challenge of the Super Sons" already finished?

----------


## Astralabius

> Is "Challenge of the Super Sons" already finished?


No, only the first half. The second half will come out in March. The artists need time to finish their work. This break was actually scheduled since the start, but a lot of comic sites failed to include in in their articles.

----------


## Astralabius

> Seeing fanart with Damian's new costume is making me like it even more! I'm really excited to see it in action once Robin starts, and to see the other costumes Gleb made.
> 
> Btw, now that there's Future State: Gotham, I wonder if there's any chance Damian will be in it. So far we still don't know anything about what happened to him in this future, but maybe we will know before February ends, and maybe it can be expanded in this book?


If Robin Eternal #2 doesn't reveal anything new I hope Talia will talk with Bruce about the fate of their son in Future State: Catwoman.
My current bets are that he's either imprisoned somewhere or he's simply dead.
If he's dead the question is when he died. If it's more recent it could be adressed in Future State Gotham. If he died several years ago it could be something unknowingly hanging over his head in Robin.

----------


## scary harpy

> https://twitter.com/SeanIzaakse/stat...60342122332161


Beautiful art.

The black, red and white really make this pop.

----------


## sifighter

> Do you think so? I wonder what Damian is doing in Future State?


My personal theory is that Damian is dead. No one is mentioning him, he has made no appearance, and what I consider especially important is that he has made no effort in challenging a stranger (Tim Fox) who is dressed up like Batman which would be in character to go "who the hell are you and why are you wearing my 'dead' fathers uniform". Not to mention that if the Magistrate knows Bruce Wayne is Batman, then they would clearly know Damian Wayne is Robin.

----------


## Morgoth

I still feel like his storyline was simply cut out due to changes in plans for him. It's just too weird, he is one of the main Bat-characters and is barely even mentioned here.

----------


## Astralabius

> I still feel like his storyline was simply cut out due to changes in plans for him. It's just too weird, he is one of the main Bat-characters and is barely even mentioned here.


Maybe there were plans for him to be a villain, that certainly seemed to be their plan for 5G, but with Joshua Williamson kinda being in charge of Infinite Frontier and him repeatedly stating he will put Damian back on the hero's journey it wouldn't be suprising if DC thought that it wouldn't fit with their new plans. But we can only speculate.

Anyway, I feel like revealing that he's dead would make the most sense.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> I still feel like his storyline was simply cut out due to changes in plans for him. It's just too weird, he is one of the main Bat-characters and is barely even mentioned here.


Exactly, I think it's just very weird not even mention him. I even tried asking Joshua Williamson on twitter, but no one answers. 

On one hand, DC could just be playing dumb and Damian won't be in the story at all for whatever reason. On the other hand, it that's really the case, why not just say it right away? Why not just say he is dead and settle this? I don't know if I'm tripping, but to me this is just really really suspiscious.

----------


## Astralabius

> Exactly, I think it's just very weird not even mention him. I even tried asking Joshua Williamson on twitter, but no one answers. 
> 
> On one hand, DC could just be playing dumb and Damian won't be in the story at all for whatever reason. On the other hand, it that's really the case, why not just say it right away? Why not just say he is dead and settle this? I don't know if I'm tripping, but to me this is just really really suspiscious.


If they were playing dumb they just shouldn't have mentioned his name in Robin Eternal #1.

Maybe they were hoping that by not saying it right away they could get some Damian fans to buy Teen Titans to see if he's Red X or to buy other titles in hopes of him getting mentioned somewhere.
Admitting that he's not going to be in this and what happened to him is not going to be important in any story would have killed more interest in Future State than keeping it a mystery. At least for Damian fans.

----------


## Morgoth

> Why not just say he is dead and settle this?


Probably because they didn't want to cut ties. They're still playing with Future State universe, maybe they want to use him there later. For example, I think there's a good chance for his appearance in Future State: Gotham.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

So, Damian's supposed to fight in some tournament to decide who's the best fighter in the DC Universe? Cassandra Cain fans are gonna be mad!

----------


## Rac7d*

> So, Damian's supposed to fight in some tournament to decide who's the best fighter in the DC Universe? Cassandra Cain fans are gonna be mad!


No madder then they were at her BOP debut into the mainstream

----------


## Astralabius

> So, Damian's supposed to fight in some tournament to decide who's the best fighter in the DC Universe? Cassandra Cain fans are gonna be mad!


They already were when the solicitations came out, for some reason a few acted like Damian "stole" Cassandra's arc, which was kinda ridiculous.
It's a tournament arc, very common in shounen. And the best fighter part is just to hype it up, I doubt it's going to be matter much in the end. Williamson wants to show Damian kick lots of ass and that's an easy way to do it.

----------


## CPSparkles

> So, Damian's supposed to fight in some tournament to decide who's the best fighter in the DC Universe? Cassandra Cain fans are gonna be mad!


I'm not sure what that's about. It's all kicking off on tumblr with Cass blogs attacking Damian. Saying he's taking everything from Cass. 

Claiming that they've been asking for a tournament arc for 15 years.

They should get over it. Why attack Damian a fictional character rather than focusing their ire on DC. The very real people who make the decisions

----------


## CPSparkles

> My personal theory is that Damian is dead. No one is mentioning him, he has made no appearance, and what I consider especially important is that he has made no effort in challenging a stranger (Tim Fox) who is dressed up like Batman which would be in character to go "who the hell are you and why are you wearing my 'dead' fathers uniform". Not to mention that if the Magistrate knows Bruce Wayne is Batman, then they would clearly know Damian Wayne is Robin.


I'm hoping that now that they've expanded Future state and plans have changed there might be a mention of Damian. He's most likely dead. Which is sad because it means that he dies quite young.

----------


## Morgoth

Either he leads the League of Shadows or part of Totality. It doesn't make much sense to just kill him, well, at least if they intend to develop this universe.

----------


## Astralabius

> Either he leads the League of Shadows or part of Totality. It doesn't make much sense to just kill him, well, at least if they intend to develop this universe.


Why wouldn't it make sense? Lots of other characters are dead and they have tons of Batman characters to work with.

----------


## Morgoth

Well, they have almost entire Bat-family there, except him, and he's one of most important bat-characters. Not to mention his character's potentital and his popularity. So, yeah, it's pretty weird just to kill him off and that's it.

----------


## Astralabius

> Well, they have almost entire Bat-family there, except him, and he's one of most important bat-characters. Not to mention his character's potentital and his popularity. So, yeah, it's pretty weird just to kill him off and that's it.


Eh, killing off a character if you don't know what to do with them in an alternate future is pretty normal for DC. I also think it's possible that they simply didn't want to have two Robins running around.

----------


## Katana500

I dont really think Damian not appearing in Future State is that big a deal. I've been enjoying it so far and don't reallt see where he could have fitted in.

I think its very likely he was intended to show up a little down the line so was probably a casualty of Future State becoming a 2 month event. If it had become the main status quo I would not be suprised if Damian showing up would have been an arc 6 months later to build hype.

----------


## Eckri

*spoilers:*
Well Damian does appear in Future State: Robin Eternal. Hallucination, of course. Then there's Teen Titans where Red X reveals his face, but honestly unless DC wants the canon that Damian has brown hair, it's not him
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Astralabius

> *spoilers:*
> Well Damian does appear in Future State: Robin Eternal. Hallucination, of course. Then there's Teen Titans where Red X reveals his face, but honestly unless DC wants the canon that Damian has brown hair, it's not him
> *end of spoilers*


There is the hair thing, but more importantly the story and the solicitations for Future State and Infinite Frontier make it perfectly clear that Red X is a student of Titans Academy. It's a student who was inspired by Dick talking about the time he created the Red X identity and brought it back.
Damian won't be a student, he will be in his own ongoing as Robin fighting in a tournament on a secret island for the next few months.
Most of the teachers in the Academy used to be his team members and half the students hate him because they are from the Glass run that Damian just got out of. Damian has no reason to become a student of TA.

We'll find out which student of Titans Academy will become Red X in that book. That seems to be its biggest hook.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

Joshua Williamson recently made a new interview in which he talked about Infinite Frontier, Robin, etc.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8BqPoO-oHg

Among other things, he says that Future State won't affect Robin, because Damian is not in it at all, so I guess I am just a clown.  :Frown:  Either way, I really want to know why editorial decided not to use him, but I suppose the matter is settled.

----------


## dietrich

> Joshua Williamson recently made a new interview in which he talked about Infinite Frontier, Robin, etc.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8BqPoO-oHg
> 
> Among other things, he says that Future State won't affect Robin, because Damian is not in it at all, so I guess I am just a clown.  Either way, I really want to know why editorial decided not to use him, but I suppose the matter is settled.


Wow they really tried to bury Damian. For Tim or for Tim?
To take Robin from him or to replace one diverse character with another. 

A Black batman is cool but the Future JL having a part Asian part Arabian batman would have been even better. 

Remind folks that there's more than just Black and white. Diversity doesn't automatically =black.

----------


## Morgoth

I'm still pretty sure that in 5G he was in the same role that Magistrate now has in Future State. And they simply did not have time to come up with a new role for him. Although in general I am very surprised that Williamson did not come up with something for him.

----------


## Astralabius

> Joshua Williamson recently made a new interview in which he talked about Infinite Frontier, Robin, etc.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8BqPoO-oHg
> 
> Among other things, he says that Future State won't affect Robin, because Damian is not in it at all, so I guess I am just a clown.  Either way, I really want to know why editorial decided not to use him, but I suppose the matter is settled.


I'm glad he made it clear that FS won't affect Robin. There is no connection between the two.
To me that sounds like I'll be able to enjoy Robin in peace without having to worry about him getting killed of or imprisoned to explain his absence in FS.

----------


## dietrich

> I'm still pretty sure that in 5G he was in the same role that Magistrate now has in Future State. And they simply did not have time to come up with a new role for him. Although in general I am very surprised that Williamson did not come up with something for him.


I guess you could be correct but it feels unbelievable to me that they just didn't have time to come up with a direction for him. Damian is one of the more important bat characters so that they simply forgot one of bruce's heirs. the heir that belongs to the generation that 5G was focusing on. That sounds unlikely.

How do you start writing a future where the Supersons are broken up without remembering Damian?

It feels deliberate and it's nothing new.

DC giving in to fanboys and political correctness is the norm. Hence why it makes no sense. Damian is a popular and profitable character of colour. It should be win win.

----------


## dietrich

> I'm glad he made it clear that FS won't affect Robin. There is no connection between the two.
> To me that sounds like I'll be able to enjoy Robin in peace without having to worry about him getting killed of or imprisoned to explain his absence in FS.


That is a positive.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> Wow they really tried to bury Damian. For Tim or for Tim?
> To take Robin from him or to replace one diverse character with another. 
> 
> A Black batman is cool but the Future JL having a part Asian part Arabian batman would have been even better. 
> 
> Remind folks that there's more than just Black and white. Diversity doesn't automatically =black.


I have to disagree with you in what you said about Jace; I actually think he's a incredible addition, and having a black Batman is really important! Damian is also POC, but DC never committed fully with this, so some people don't consider him a good representation, even though he should be one.

Now, realistically speaking, I guess he really was buried for both lol. Which, to me, it's pretty stupid, because he doesn't need to be Robin or Batman necessarily in the future, especially in a relatively close one. But yeah, it bothers me a lot that he was excluded in a future in which his generation is supposed to be the heroes in action, and seeing Jon as Superman with no mention of Damian at all hurts a little, but, like Astralabius said, Robin not being affected by FS is actually pretty good. 

In the end, Future State is just a two-month event. What matters is what comes next.  :Wink:

----------


## dietrich

> I have to disagree with you in what you said about Jace; I actually think he's a incredible addition, and having a black Batman is really important! Damian is also POC, but DC never committed fully with this, so some people don't consider him a good representation, even though he should be one.
> 
> Now, realistically speaking, I guess he really was buried for both lol. Which, to me, it's pretty stupid, because he doesn't need to be Robin or Batman necessarily in the future, especially in a relatively close one. But yeah, it bothers me a lot that he was excluded in a future in which his generation is supposed to be the heroes in action, and seeing Jon as Superman with no mention of Damian at all hurts a little, but, like Astralabius said, Robin not being affected by FS is actually pretty good. 
> 
> In the end, Future State is just a two-month event. What matters is what comes next.


How is having a black Batman Important? Why is it Important?

there's a Chinese Batman and we have a batman of Africa. Seems to me dc did not need a black batman. They already had one that was simply not Bruce Wayne.

I'm glad Damian wasn't a part of FS since it doesn't feel sincere or well thought out but it's still shocking that they were prepared to bury one of the few well known and established characters of colour on DC's roster and I'd like to know who thought that was a good idea.

Thank God for Dceased. 1000x better than FS JL and with more content. I can enjoy that trinity. Can't wait for the next instalment

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> Wow they really tried to bury Damian. For Tim or for Tim?
> To take Robin from him or to replace one diverse character with another. 
> 
> A Black batman is cool but the Future JL having a part Asian part Arabian batman would have been even better.


DCeased says hi.

----------


## CPSparkles

Of course DC isn't sincere in their push for diversity but we should be glad that WB is behind Damian and that Damian is profitable.

I just hope Robin sells well.

As for him being part of his gen's trinity. that doesn't matter. like dietrich said we have DCeased. A beloved elseword and that world is still on-going.

Robin is the important title since these characters aren't about to replace the OG's. Damian was never going to become Batman in the way bruce or Terry are

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> How is having a black Batman Important? Why is it Important?
> 
> there's a Chinese Batman and we have a batman of Africa. Seems to me dc did not need a black batman. They already had one that was simply not Bruce Wayne.
> 
> I'm glad Damian wasn't a part of FS since it doesn't feel sincere or well thought out but it's still shocking that they were prepared to bury one of the few well known and established characters of colour on DC's roster and I'd like to know who thought that was a good idea.
> 
> Thank God for Dceased. 1000x better than FS JL and with more content. I can enjoy that trinity. Can't wait for the next instalment


There's never been a black Batman in main continuity before. You're talking about Batwing.

Most people don't even know Damian is a character of color, and if we're being honest, DC has made him white passing since his inception.

Getting mad over Damian not being Batman in Future State doesn't make sense, 'cause Future State's Batman is meant to make the jump into main continuity. And Damian in main continuity is 13 years old and currently wants nothing to do with the Bat-Family ('Course, that won't last, 'cause he's got the Robin series).

But if we're being honest, Batman as a concept shouldn't exist. Neither should Robin. How can you be superheroes without superpowers? It's a total contradiction!

----------


## dietrich

> There's never been a black Batman in main continuity before. You're talking about Batwing.
> 
> Most people don't even know Damian is a character of color, and if we're being honest, DC has made him white passing since his inception.
> 
> Getting mad over Damian not being Batman in Future State doesn't make sense, 'cause Future State's Batman is meant to make the jump into main continuity. And Damian in main continuity is 13 years old and currently wants nothing to do with the Bat-Family ('Course, that won't last, 'cause he's got the Robin series).
> 
> But if we're being honest, Batman as a concept shouldn't exist. Neither should Robin. How can you be superheroes without superpowers? It's a total contradiction!


Honestly not that bothered about damian being FS Batman or any sort of Batman since it's not like anyone other than maybe Terry can ever be a notable batman besides bruce.

I do however have issues when DC makes a big song and dance about representation and then proceeds to leave out the most prominent minority character they have ever produced.

Don't get me started on DC's inability/reluctance to depict Damian's heritage. 

DC has zero interest in representation or diversity aside from quick bucks. I had hoped that Daniel Cherry might bring about a change but sadly that hasn't been the case.

DC could have had David to counter BP

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> Honestly not that bothered about damian being FS Batman or any sort of Batman since it's not like anyone other than maybe Terry can ever be a notable batman besides bruce.
> 
> I do however have issues when DC makes a big song and dance about representation and then proceeds to leave out the most prominent minority character they have ever produced.
> 
> Don't get me started on DC's inability/reluctance to depict Damian's heritage. 
> 
> DC has zero interest in representation or diversity aside from quick bucks. I had hoped that Daniel Cherry might bring about a change but sadly that hasn't been the case.
> 
> DC could have had David to counter BP


I get you're a Damian Wayne fan, but... "The most prominent minority character they have ever produced"? Ooh, I don't know about that one.

Anyway, a black Batman is pretty amazing and great for black kids and kids of color in general. I dunno what this "Damian would be better because he's Arabian and Chinese" thing is, it's just not the case. One, we don't have to go down that route in the first place. Two, a black Batman is incredibly relevant after historical events in America. Three, Damian can't provide the dynamics that Jace does.

But why talk about Jace in Damian's appreciation thread? I, too, love the blood son! Even though Tim Drake totally kicked his butt twice in a row.

----------


## dietrich

> I get you're a Damian Wayne fan, but... "The most prominent minority character they have ever produced"? Ooh, I don't know about that one.
> 
> Anyway, a black Batman is pretty amazing and great for black kids and kids of color in general. I dunno what this "Damian would be better because he's Arabian and Chinese" thing is, it's just not the case. One, we don't have to go down that route in the first place. Two, a black Batman is incredibly relevant after historical events in America. Three, Damian can't provide the dynamics that Jace does.
> 
> But why talk about Jace in Damian's appreciation thread? I, too, love the blood son! Even though Tim Drake totally kicked his butt twice in a row.


nothing to do with being a Damian Fan. Robin is one of the the most well known heroes in comics period.

We already had a Black Batman David and he wasn't just some guy dressed in bruce's clothes.

mate there are no bragging rights when a  16 year old fights an undersized 10 year old. None what so ever and it doesn't help when we recall that Damian then goes on to thoroughly take down 17 yr old Tim in Robin War and bested him in a psychological battle.

Again no bragging rights for throwing hands with a 10 year old.
Or maybe there is because here you are.

I wonder how the other non Black race's feel about diversity in the media? After Caucasians African Americans are the next majority. Sure there's the whole BLM movement going on but Blacks have way more representation than other minorities. And yes we do have to go down that route.

If we are going to go down the route of active inclusion then we have to look at who's missing. Who is under represented in comics.

Arabs/Middle eastern people and Muslims are on the scant side.
And we already had a black batman. I wonder how many black readers would have preferred David over Tim.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> nothing to do with being a Damian Fan. Robin is one of the the most well known heroes in comics period.
> 
> We already had a Black Batman David and he wasn't just some guy dressed in bruce's clothes.
> 
> mate there are no bragging rights when a  16 year old fights an undersized 10 year old. None what so ever and it doesn't help when we recall that Damian then goes on to thoroughly take down 17 yr old Tim in Robin War and bested him in a psychological battle.
> 
> Again no bragging rights for throwing hands with a 10 year old.
> 
> I wonder how the other non Black race's feel about diversity in the media? After Caucasians African Americans are the next majority. Sure there's the whole BLM movement going on but Blacks have way more representation than other minorities. And yes we do have to go down that route.
> ...


Why do you keep saying we had a black Batman? David Zavimbe was Bat*wing*, not Batman. 

And according to the censuses taken, after Caucasians people of Hispanic descent are the majority. There's no route to go down, as black people are still underrepresented in media and have only just started to get representation in meaningful ways in the larger media (Compared to the obvious majority). Everybody knows this.

What's Arabs/Middle eastern people being on the "scant side" have to do with Jace Fox (Though if you're looking for representation, check out Summer Zahid in Teen Titans Academy)?Damian couldn't provide any of the same beats as Jace's Batman, Jace was created decades before him and created before all of the other Robins except for Dick, that's why he was chosen. Oh, yeah, and Damian is 13.

----------


## Shen

> Oh, yeah, and Damian is 13.


The age thing doesn't really matter - 10 or 13, Damian took him down. He's still a kid, and he doesn't have the phsyical capabilities of someone trained for around the same amount of time he was - also defeating the _Brainy Robin_ in a battle of wits as a kid is very impressive. 
Although I am biased I guess, I find Tim deeply annoying.

Also, get where you're coming from, and DC is an American based company so they have to show some representation to African-American individuals in this new event that's bringing back older characters - so what better way than to use an older character of that race in a notable position like Batman whilst Bruce does his new Dark Douche hobby. 

Perfect DC sense.

I still think it sucks that Damian won't be in future state, but at least he won't be subject to inconsistent writing thanks to all the changes.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Why do you keep saying we had a black Batman? David Zavimbe was Bat*wing*, not Batman. 
> 
> And according to the censuses taken, after Caucasians people of Hispanic descent are the majority. There's no route to go down, as black people are still underrepresented in media and have only just started to get representation in meaningful ways in the larger media (Compared to the obvious majority). Everybody knows this.
> 
> What's Arabs/Middle eastern people being on the "scant side" have to do with Jace Fox (Though if you're looking for representation, check out Summer Zahid in Teen Titans Academy)?Damian couldn't provide any of the same beats as Jace's Batman, Jace was created decades before him and created before all of the other Robins except for Dick, that's why he was chosen. Oh, yeah, and Damian is 13.


Damian spent the first day of his teenage year (13) on Rebirth, and there's no Tim vs Damian battle on Rebirth and later era, unless you're talking about future BatTim a.k.a Savior. Any era before that, Damian is either 10 or 11, depends on before or after his death, because I remember there's mention that Damian died when he was 10 years old. (Red Robin comic is before his death, so he's 10. Robin War is after his death, so he's 11. If we assumed that the year he spent on hell is counted on his age). 

Anyway, let's not turn it into fanwar, I like Tim too. To be truly honest, I don't care for representation, and I will not care for Damian if he was created only to fulfill "diversity quota". I like Damian because his story and characterization and I don't care for his race, his mother and father's race. It's perfectly fine if there's no Damian on Future State, I think. His build-up to 5G is awful, if his Future State will destroy everything I love about this character, it's better if he didn't exist on Future state at all. After all, Future State is just 2 month event. We still have Supersons and DCeased (even though I don't really like DCeased). We are on better place compared to, for example, Wallace. And Babs, I think (Is she already appear on Future State? Future State months means no reading comic months for me).

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> nothing to do with being a Damian Fan. Robin is one of the the most well known heroes in comics period.
> 
> We already had a Black Batman David and he wasn't just some guy dressed in bruce's clothes.
> 
> mate there are no bragging rights when a  16 year old fights an undersized 10 year old. None what so ever and it doesn't help when we recall that Damian then goes on to thoroughly take down 17 yr old Tim in Robin War and bested him in a psychological battle.
> 
> Again no bragging rights for throwing hands with a 10 year old.
> Or maybe there is because here you are.
> 
> ...


But we've had elseworlds where Damian was Batman, are Batman 666 and DCeased not a thing. Batman is not the be all end all for robin character's anyway. Damian's getting an ongoing solo series and that's what really matters. You're acting like DC is pushing Damian to the side for Jace like they haven't been promoting Damian for the past few months.

----------


## Morgoth

All of this doesn't matter at all, because there's always will be one true Batman and it's Bruce, and that's not gonna change, period.
Regarding Future State, the only really annoying thing is that they claim about pushing new generation in this thing, and Damian is actually the first character in his generation, and despite that they prefered to cut him out. And they for some reason did not bother to give him a new identity, to show that he is acting alongside Jon and Yara. Even Jace, lol, it's actually would be pretty interesting to see them working together. His complete absence just doesn't feel right. This, of course, is not the worst, Flash Family and Teen Titans treatment there is generally complete shit.
But otherwise, Damian has his own ongoing, which is promoted more than most titles from DC, lol, and is written by the author who builds Infinity Frontier. Therefore, I do not think that he will have any problems.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> The age thing doesn't really matter - 10 or 13, Damian took him down. He's still a kid, and he doesn't have the phsyical capabilities of someone trained for around the same amount of time he was - also defeating the _Brainy Robin_ in a battle of wits as a kid is very impressive. 
> Although I am biased I guess, I find Tim deeply annoying.
> 
> Also, get where you're coming from, and DC is an American based company so they have to show some representation to African-American individuals in this new event that's bringing back older characters - so what better way than to use an older character of that race in a notable position like Batman whilst Bruce does his new Dark Douche hobby. 
> 
> Perfect DC sense.
> 
> I still think it sucks that Damian won't be in future state, but at least he won't be subject to inconsistent writing thanks to all the changes.


Nah, not what I meant. Damian being 13 means he never could've been made into Batman after the event ended.

But, uh, Damian has never beaten Tim Drake in a fair fight, by the way.

----------


## Morgoth

1613140499730.jpg
ROBIN #2

Written by JOSHUA WILLIAMSON

Art and cover by GLEB MELNIKOV

Card stock variant cover by FRANCIS MANAPUL

After the shocking events of Robin #1, Damian has learned the deadly rules of Lazarus Island the hard way! Now he must prove that he belongs in the tournament and uncover its secrets! But his only ally is the daughter of one of his greatest enemies: Ravager! In this tournament, only one fighter can get out alive -- ready for round two? Fight!

32 pages, $3.99 (card stock variant, $4.99), available on May 25.

----------


## Restingvoice

Huh. He's drawn older. He actually looks 14

----------


## the1&onlyE.

DC FESTIVAL OF HEROES: THE ASIAN SUPERHERO CELEBRATION #1

Written by GENE LUEN YANG, RAM V, GREG PAK, ALYSSA WONG, AMY CHU, MINH LE, DUSTIN NGUYEN, and others

Art by MARCUS TO, BERNARD CHANG, DUSTIN NGUYEN, MARCIO TAKARA, TRUNG LE NGUYEN, FRANCIS MANAPUL, and others

Cover by JIM LEE

Variant cover by STANLEY "ARTGERM" LAU

Grab your favorite boba and pull a chair up to the dim sum table as we celebrate Asian Heritage Month with all your favorite Asian DC characters, old and new! Join Cassandra Cain, Katana, Green Lantern Tai Pham, the Atom, Dana Tan (a.k.a. Batman Beyond), Red Arrow, Lady Shiva, Damian Wayne and the al Ghul clan, New Super-Man, and more as we present new tales of these characters from their thrilling history! Plus, Cheshire Cat's relationship to Cheshire is revealed as Shoes asks Selina Kyle to take her under her wing as Cat Girl. And that's just the start!

96 pages, $9.99, available on May 5

I'M SO EXCITED!

----------


## the1&onlyE.

So DC finally acknowledged Damian's Asian and Arab heritages... now they just need to stop whitewashing him!

----------


## sifighter

> Huh. He's drawn older. He actually looks 14


I'm fine with that, given the time from Rebirth to now, the fact that a character like Aquaman has a baby who is now a couple months old, I would assume that Damian at this point has to be at least 14 nearly pushing 15.

----------


## Astralabius

> Huh. He's drawn older. He actually looks 14


Bruce missed yet another one of his birthdays :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Konja7

> So DC finally acknowledged Damian's Asian and Arab heritages... now they just need to stop whitewashing him!


I really doubt they will stop to whitewash him, since they still want the mini Bruce look. 

I guess you can say Damian is white passing

----------


## Astralabius

> I'm fine with that, given the time from Rebirth to now, the fact that a character like Aquaman has a baby who is now a couple months old, I would assume that Damian at this point has to be at least 14 nearly pushing 15.


Yeah, but time in comics never makes that much sense. Bruce had a birthday at the start of Tomasi's Tec run and Damian was already 13 years old at that point, then Bruce had another birthday in Tec #1027 and a few issues later Bruce still says Damian is 13.
Either time in DC makes no sense or Damian actually turned 14 at some point and Bruce seriously hasn't noticed.

----------


## Shen

> Nah, not what I meant. Damian being 13 means he never could've been made into Batman after the event ended.
> 
> But, uh, Damian has never beaten Tim Drake in a fair fight, by the way.


Yeah I agree that Damian being Batman in future state wasn't what I'd expect. 

And I do agree that Damian hasn't beaten Tim in a straight fight, but the brat knows he's at a disadvantage against him so he cheats. Would you expect Batman to beat Superman without Kryptonite? 

Don't answer that  :Big Grin:

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> I really doubt they will stop to whitewash him, since they still want the mini Bruce look. 
> 
> I guess you can say Damian is white passing


Sadly yes, but I wish he wasn't.  :Frown:  Gleb sometimes paints his skin darker, so let's see if he carries this to the book. 




> Huh. He's drawn older. He actually looks 14


Until DC states otherwise, I'll consider him as still 13, tho. But this is just a cover, to me the inside is more important.

----------


## Shen

> Yeah, but time in comics never makes that much sense. Bruce had a birthday at the start of Tomasi's Tec run and Damian was already 13 years old at that point, then Bruce had another birthday in Tec #1027 and a few issues later Bruce still says Damian is 13.
> Either time in DC makes no sense or Damian actually turned 14 at some point and Bruce seriously hasn't noticed.


Lol, I know he tries but Bruce actually might not have noticed - dude's had a lot happening lately but still. Perhaps it's to drive the plot forward and add more to Damian's angst. 

Son of Batman - The Eternal 13/14 year old.

----------


## Will Evans

At least they acknowledged he’s Asian.

----------


## Astralabius

> Lol, I know he tries but Bruce actually might not have noticed - dude's had a lot happening lately but still. Perhaps it's to drive the plot forward and add more to Damian's angst. 
> 
> Son of Batman - The Eternal 13/14 year old.


Damian already got his angst moments when Bruce ignored his 13th birthday at the start of Teen Titans 2016, he might be more suprised if Bruce actually remembered for his 14th.

----------


## Astralabius

Alfred promised to bake him a cake with blood and sulfur for his 14th birthday, but I guess that's not going to happen now.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Alfred promised to bake him a cake with blood and sulfur for his 14th birthday, but I guess that's not going to happen now.


Maybe he'll revive him after winning Lazarus tournament for the occasion

----------


## Light of Justice

> Damian already got his angst moments when Bruce ignored his 13th birthday at the start of Teen Titans 2016, he might be more suprised if Bruce actually remembered for his 14th.


At this point Damian will have to associate his birthday with angst. Year 1 possibly swimming on pool of blood, year 2-9 defeated by his mother, year 10 meet your father, but one day after got blown by torpedo and having some organ replacement, year 11 possibly in hell, year 12 Bruce is possibly amnesic, year 13 Bruce forgot but not because of amnesic plus his grandpa sent him bird corpse.

----------


## Shen

> At this point Damian will have to associate his birthday with angst. Year 1 possibly swimming on pool of blood, year 2-9 defeated by his mother, year 10 meet your father, but one day after got blown by torpedo and having some organ replacement, year 11 possibly in hell, year 12 Bruce is possibly amnesic, year 13 Bruce forgot but not because of amnesic plus his grandpa sent him bird corpse.


Damn man, and these are just his birthdays. It's no wonder the kid is borderline homicidal, considering he's mostly seen the darker side of the world in his short lifespan. 

Well, I'm sure there's a fanfic out there that corrects all this.

----------


## Blue22

> So DC finally acknowledged Damian's Asian and Arab heritages... now they just need to stop whitewashing him!


I'm typically okay with him looking white passing. He is 50% Bruce after all and this is the guy whose genes are so strong that even his adopted kids look like him lol

But yeah, darker skinned Damian is definitely welcomed.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> DC FESTIVAL OF HEROES: THE ASIAN SUPERHERO CELEBRATION #1
> 
> Written by GENE LUEN YANG, RAM V, GREG PAK, ALYSSA WONG, AMY CHU, MINH LE, DUSTIN NGUYEN, and others
> 
> Art by MARCUS TO, BERNARD CHANG, DUSTIN NGUYEN, MARCIO TAKARA, TRUNG LE NGUYEN, FRANCIS MANAPUL, and others
> 
> Cover by JIM LEE
> 
> Variant cover by STANLEY "ARTGERM" LAU
> ...


This is cool. I hope they add Tai to the main dc universe.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> I'm typically okay with him looking white passing. He is 50% Bruce after all and *this is the guy whose genes are so strong that even his adopted kids look like him* lol
> 
> But yeah, darker skinned Damian is definitely welcomed.


It's kinda creepy how there's an unwritten law for robins to have dark hair and blue eyes (ironically excluding Damian).

----------


## Astralabius

> I'm typically okay with him looking white passing. He is 50% Bruce after all and this is the guy whose genes are so strong that even his adopted kids look like him lol
> 
> But yeah, darker skinned Damian is definitely welcomed.


And Bruce looks like a clone of his dad most of the time (DC can't even keep Martha's hair color consistent). So almost everyone in the batfam looks like Thomas Wayne in a way.

----------


## adrikito

> Attachment 105986
> ROBIN #2
> 
> Written by JOSHUA WILLIAMSON
> 
> Art and cover by GLEB MELNIKOV
> 
> Card stock variant cover by FRANCIS MANAPUL
> 
> ...


It scares me a little see this kind of cover with Damian grave...

Damian allied with ROSE?? PERFECT.




> Huh. He's drawn older. He actually looks 14


I am perfectly fine with that.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> And Bruce looks like a clone of his dad most of the time (DC can't even keep Martha's hair color consistent). So almost everyone in the batfam looks like Thomas Wayne in a way.


I always ending talking about it, but inconsistency of characters do bother me, height, colors, shapes, body type, chess size, when someone need to say a name of a character for they be recognized there is a problem.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I think even in the dark skin Damian still looks like a mini-Bruce.... but I am ok with the white skin, just take out all Arabic/Asiatic culture of Damian take a lot of the character :/

----------


## Westbats

With all the discussion of time travel to connect _Future State_ to _Infinite Frontier_, such as Simon Saint/Peacekeeper 01, could it be possible that the Damian of that era is time travelling as well, and the Batfamily is assuming the worst?

----------


## Astralabius

> With all the discussion of time travel to connect _Future State_ to _Infinite Frontier_, such as Simon Saint/Peacekeeper 01, could it be possible that the Damian of that era is time travelling as well, and the Batfamily is assuming the worst?


Joshua Williamson said that Damian is not in FS at all and that the Robin ongoing is completely disconnected from FS in a recent interview. Since he's the writer of Robin and the head behind Infinite Frontier I assume he knows what he's talking about.

So while we're of course free to come up with reasons for Damian's disappearance, I wouldn't expect any detailed answers from FS.

----------


## Konja7

> It's kinda creepy how there's an unwritten law for robins to have dark hair and blue eyes (ironically excluding Damian).


Damian has dark hair and blue eyes in Tomasi's Detective Comics.





> I think even in the dark skin Damian still looks like a mini-Bruce.... but I am ok with the white skin, just take out all Arabic/Asiatic culture of Damian take a lot of the character :/


Technically, Damian will still be Arabic/Asian if he looks like a white kid. Even if Damian has white milk skin, this wouldn't change that her mother isn't white. 

The issue is comics are a visual media. So, many people expect the diversity is reflected in the character look. 

Comics being a visual media is also the reason why Damian needs white skin to look like mini Bruce.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Damian has dark hair and blue eyes in Tomasi's Detective Comics.
> 
> 
> 
> Technically, Damian will still be Arabic/Asian if he looks like a white kid. Even if Damian has white milk skin, this wouldn't change that her mother isn't white. 
> 
> The issue is comics are a visual media. So, many people expect the diversity is reflected in the character look. 
> 
> Comics being a visual media is also the reason why Damian needs white skin to look like mini Bruce.


about the Asian/Arabic thing is how there is almost any element that categorizes Damian as a no American, he could have dark skin and still be like this, Damian could for example has books in Arabic/Chinese in his room, or eat Arabian food some times, or talk in Chinese with Round House, or play/have a Tar, I don't like when they do this as a stereotyped way when there are characters that remember they are a foreigner in each 10 minutes.... 
Representation goes very beyond a physical characteristic. It's like Mille Morales, We can see he is black by his skin and hair, but there are cultural elements of where he lives, he calls his mother speaking in Spanish and don't need to wear a Mexican t-shirt for we got he is mixed race. 
I know many Japanese downward that call them grandmothers of obaa-chan XD, and I love fics that Damian calls Bruce "baba" accidentally XD, details are what make a good representation in characters.... 
So, I still prefer Damian in dark skin and I think he can look like a tiny-Bruce just by his black hair and proportions, but I agree he could've born with milk-white skin, but since Damian is mixed-race and I think it is interestanting and very unique for the character, I would like to see a little more of this.

----------


## Morgoth

> So while we're of course free to come up with reasons for Damian's disappearance, I wouldn't expect any detailed answers from FS.


Maybe tomorrow's Catwoman issue will have some Damian's mention, since Talia will meet Bruce there.

----------


## Astralabius

> Maybe tomorrow's Catwoman issue will have some Damian's mention, since Talia will meet Bruce there.


I know, but even if that happens I don't expect to get a long and detailed explanation. It's the Catwoman book and she has nothing to do with Damian.

----------


## Astralabius

Nope, no mention of Damian in FS: Catwoman either unless I missed something.
For some strange reason Tim Drake is the only one who seems to remember he ever even existed in Future State.

----------


## Fergus

> Yeah I agree that Damian being Batman in future state wasn't what I'd expect. 
> 
> And I do agree that Damian hasn't beaten Tim in a straight fight, but the brat knows he's at a disadvantage against him so he cheats. Would you expect Batman to beat Superman without Kryptonite? 
> 
> Don't answer that


Damian has beaten Tim in a fair fight. Robin War and Deathstroke.

Good serious fighters always cheat  aka strategy :Cool:

----------


## Morgoth

> Nope, no mention of Damian in FS: Catwoman either unless I missed something.
> For some strange reason Tim Drake is the only one who seems to remember he ever even existed in Future State.


Yeah, that's funny, from all people Tim Drake is one only one, who mentioned him.
I think he'll appear in anthology, it seems like that's where all of that Resistance vs Magistrate story is going. If he was dead, they would say about it, so there is a reason. And given that Williamson is a fan of Damian, most likely he will not miss the chance to introduce the FS version in his story.

----------


## Astralabius

> Yeah, that's funny, from all people Tim Drake is one only one, who mentioned him.
> I think he'll appear in anthology, it seems like that's where all of that Resistance vs Magistrate story is going. If he was dead, they would say about it, so there is a reason. And given that Williamson is a fan of Damian, most likely he will not miss the chance to introduce the FS version in his story.


Maybe, but I'm not gonna be checking that out. I'm over Future State.

----------


## Shen

> Damian has beaten Tim in a fair fight. Robin War and Deathstroke.
> 
> Good serious fighters always cheat  aka strategy


 :Wink:  I don't doubt Damian can break Tim Drake's patronizing face, but some people will always downplay his 'victories' to luck or cheating - or the opponent going easy on him. 

Meh, to each their own. 

But remind me, because my memory seems foggy. Did people downplay Cass when she showed up and took down fully trained fighters twice her size like Dick?

----------


## Fergus

> I don't doubt Damian can break Tim Drake's patronizing face, but some people will always downplay his 'victories' to luck or cheating - or the opponent going easy on him. 
> 
> Meh, to each their own. 
> 
> But remind me, because my memory seems foggy. Did people downplay Cass when she showed up and took down fully trained fighters twice her size like Dick?


Nope. Comic fans are funny that way.

----------


## Fergus

Really looking forward to the Robin solo. Haven't been this excited for a title in a very long time. Everything I see from the creators has been amazing and you can see that they are very passionate about the project.

The fan response and fan arts of Damian in his new outfit is just nice to witness. Especially in light of the way TT made him even harder to root for.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

Recently someone asked Joshua Williamson about Damian and Jon' reunion, and he answered:



I wonder if it will be in an event or if it will be in another title!

----------


## Blue22

It's probably PKJ's Superman, which I'm not all that interested in reading. Even if I am still curious about the note that Damian left Jon.

----------


## Astralabius

> It's probably PKJ's Superman, which I'm not all that interested in reading. Even if I am still curious about the note that Damian left Jon.


Yeah, I'm not interested in that and I'm honestly not interested in older Jon. I stopped caring.
I feel like the note won't be adressed. Thompson didn't tell us what Damian wrote and I'm not sure if PKJ, if he even knows about it, wants to come up with something that would convince Jon to give up on his supposedly best friend.

----------


## Astralabius

> Really looking forward to the Robin solo. Haven't been this excited for a title in a very long time. Everything I see from the creators has been amazing and you can see that they are very passionate about the project.
> 
> The fan response and fan arts of Damian in his new outfit is just nice to witness. Especially in light of the way TT made him even harder to root for.


I'm really excited for Robin and Nightwing. Both had a few rough years. I'm also glad Future State is ending soon. I felt bored by it.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Yeah, I'm not interested in that and I'm honestly not interested in older Jon. I stopped caring.
> I feel like the note won't be adressed. Thompson didn't tell us what Damian wrote and I'm not sure if PKJ, if he even knows about it, wants to come up with something that would convince Jon to give up on his supposedly best friend.


I'll admit, I've avoided EVERYTHING with fake Jon. Be it Future State or prior. And Damian's overall direction leading up to Future State, outside of Super Sons, was more than a let down.

----------


## Astralabius

> I'll admit, I've avoided EVERYTHING with fake Jon. Be it Future State or prior. And Damian's overall direction leading up to Future State, outside of Super Sons, was more than a let down.


If DC hadn't announced the Robin ongoing for Damian and he had been thrown into limbo I probably would have stopped reading DC for good.
The last two years of Teen Titans were just painful to get through if you're like me and saw what was coming for Damian since the secret prison arc.
Tomasi's last arc on Detective Comics fixed some things, but sugercoated all the missteps Bruce had as Damian's father and overall the arc was not that satisfying to read.
Most characters I liked that were not my favourite character had been treated badly by DC for years also and either still had bad directions or I kind of stopped caring about them (Dick and Jon)

Then we had two months of Future State, an event I wasn't interested in when it was announced and I'm still not interested in now that it's almost over.

I also don't feel any of the 100 Batman solo titles they have announced for Infinite Frontier, since I'm not interested in Bruce just on his own, so Taylor and Nightwing and Williamson on Robin is really the only saving grace DC has in my eyes after 2-3 years of doing everything in their power to make me stop caring about their comics.

----------


## Morgoth

I just want to note that recently one of the artists (I don't remember who exactly) posted art with the Titans, where Jon and Damian were as part of the team. Maybe that's the title he means, given that we still don't know what it was about.

----------


## Astralabius

> I just want to note that recently one of the artists (I don't remember who exactly) posted art with the Titans, where Jon and Damian were as part of the team. Maybe that's the title he means, given that we still don't know what it was about.


I remember seeing a wip for something Titans related too, but I don't recall Damian being in it. Are you sure it was him?

----------


## Konja7

> I remember seeing a wip for something Titans related too, but I don't recall Damian being in it. Are you sure it was him?


I think Morgoth means the images in Marcio Takara twitter:


Esm7eoqWMAIhyt2.jpg
https://mobile.twitter.com/marcio_ta...168832/photo/2

----------


## Astralabius

> I think Morgoth means the images in Marcio Takara twitter:
> 
> 
> Esm7eoqWMAIhyt2.jpg
> https://mobile.twitter.com/marcio_ta...168832/photo/2


Yes, that looks like Damian. More like his old suit though. Melnikov or Williamson said Damian would have multiple suits in his book so that doesn't have to mean much and it's just a wip anyway, but that's something I noticed.

----------


## Rac7d*

Talia becoming a stronger meme Of the bat family is intresting, surprised catwoman is not here

----------


## Fergus

*Nightwing and Damian Wayne Are the PERFECT Dynamic Duo for Infinite Frontier*



https://www.cbr.com/nightwing-damian...ampaign=CBR-TW

Dick and Damian have come a long way and compliment each other so well. 

Come on Taylor and Williamson, make it happen and take all our monies.

----------


## Fergus

> I think Morgoth means the images in Marcio Takara twitter:
> 
> 
> Esm7eoqWMAIhyt2.jpg
> https://mobile.twitter.com/marcio_ta...168832/photo/2


What is it with DC blending Robins? Damian's Hood and Tim bo. Iconic aesthetics of two very different Robins blended into one. Who is that?

Comics are a visual medium so easily identifiable/recognisable styles, weapons and costumes are important. 

I'm not a fan of amalgamated Robins.

----------


## Fergus

DC get them back together again please



https://twitter.com/ivy___mess

----------


## Fergus

I've noticed that Damian has footwear of all the Robins. I've liked his choice of footwear the most. Not pixie boots no Ninja split toe, just wearable and cool.



Like these new Red and Black Kicks he's got on here. 

The Kid likes his trendy footwear.

----------


## Fergus

> If DC hadn't announced the Robin ongoing for Damian and he had been thrown into limbo I probably would have stopped reading DC for good.
> The last two years of Teen Titans were just painful to get through if you're like me and saw what was coming for Damian since the secret prison arc.
> Tomasi's last arc on Detective Comics fixed some things, but sugercoated all the missteps Bruce had as Damian's father and overall the arc was not that satisfying to read.
> Most characters I liked that were not my favourite character had been treated badly by DC for years also and either still had bad directions or I kind of stopped caring about them (Dick and Jon)
> 
> Then we had two months of Future State, an event I wasn't interested in when it was announced and I'm still not interested in now that it's almost over.
> 
> I also don't feel any of the 100 Batman solo titles they have announced for Infinite Frontier, since I'm not interested in Bruce just on his own, so Taylor and Nightwing and Williamson on Robin is really the only saving grace DC has in my eyes after 2-3 years of doing everything in their power to make me stop caring about their comics.


I actually stopped reading for some time following the treatment of Damian and Dick Grayson. Even stopped buying DCeased Dead Planet after the fiasco that was Nightwing's return in Joker War.

Dipped back in  for the kids with Challenge of the Supersons recently but the decider will be how seriously DC's investment in Nightwing and Damian Wayne as Robin comes across going forward.

That will decide whether I carry on with my other DC titles.

----------


## Astralabius

> Talia becoming a stronger meme Of the bat family is intresting, surprised catwoman is not here


Are you talking about the Gotham Resistance in Future State that Talia is part of?

I hope this means DC will stop shitting on her just because Morrison couldn't do his research.
I'm tired of Talia getting written terribly just to prop up other characters and relationships.

----------


## Astralabius

> I actually stopped reading for some time following the treatment of Damian and Dick Grayson. Even stopped buying DCeased Dead Planet after the fiasco that was Nightwing's return in Joker War.
> 
> Dipped back in  for the kids with Challenge of the Supersons recently but the decider will be how seriously DC's investment in Nightwing and Damian Wayne as Robin comes across going forward.
> 
> That will decide whether I carry on with my other DC titles.


Yeah, they fucked up so badly with some characters, I'm just very reluctant to get excited for new comics.
I like Taylor's writing most of the time and his name alone should get the Nightwing book more attention again. So that's good.
I haven't read that much from Williamson before, but his interviews and the art Gleb Melnikov posted make me feel at ease. I don't feel like DC will continue to push him down the path of villainy and Williamson seems to want to repair some of the damage done to Talia as well, so I'm looking forward to that.

With most of the other stuff DC will put out...I will probably wait for reviews and reactions online before I buy it.

----------


## sifighter

Alright so you’ll be glad to know that Damian is *not* peacekeeper 01. How do I know this? A new preview for Dark Detective #4 came out and Peacekeeper 01 takes off his mask to reveal....a scared up white dude with red hair that I do not know.



Here’s a link if you care, just be satisfied they didn’t make Damian the villain.

https://aiptcomics.com/2021/02/19/dc...k-detective-4/

----------


## Restingvoice

> I've noticed that Damian has footwear of all the Robins. I've liked his choice of footwear the most. Not pixie boots no Ninja split toe, just wearable and cool.
> 
> 
> 
> Like these new Red and Black Kicks he's got on here. 
> 
> The Kid likes his trendy footwear.


I found out that Gleb drew Spider-Man. That explains the vibe I'm getting from his Damian.




> Alright so you’ll be glad to know that Damian is *not* peacekeeper 01. How do I know this? A new preview for Dark Detective #4 came out and Peacekeeper 01 takes off his mask to reveal....a scared up white dude with red hair that I do not know.
> 
> 
> 
> Here’s a link if you care, just be satisfied they didn’t make Damian the villain.
> 
> https://aiptcomics.com/2021/02/19/dc...k-detective-4/


Lol. Classic Luthor.

Peacekeeper 01 is shown in Nightwing too, and yeah it's not Damian.

----------


## sifighter

> I found out that Gleb drew Spider-Man. That explains the vibe I'm getting from his Damian.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol. Classic Luthor.
> 
> Peacekeeper 01 is shown in Nightwing too, and yeah it's not Damian.



Oh I didn’t remember seeing his face in Nightwing, must have accidentally skimmed that detail. Either way I remember speculation that it might have been Damian since he was missing, so wanted to put fears to rest.

----------


## Eckri

> Alright so you’ll be glad to know that Damian is *not* peacekeeper 01. How do I know this? A new preview for Dark Detective #4 came out and Peacekeeper 01 takes off his mask to reveal....a scared up white dude with red hair that I do not know.
> 
> 
> 
> Here’s a link if you care, just be satisfied they didn’t make Damian the villain.
> 
> https://aiptcomics.com/2021/02/19/dc...k-detective-4/


Not gunna lie, Peacekeeper looks like Jim Gordon when was Robo-Batman.

----------


## Blue22

> I've noticed that Damian has footwear of all the Robins. I've liked his choice of footwear the most. Not pixie boots no Ninja split toe, just wearable and cool.
> 
> 
> 
> Like these new Red and Black Kicks he's got on here. 
> 
> The Kid likes his trendy footwear.


I can't get over how much I fucking LOVE this costume. Only thing I'd do is replace the high collar with a hood. He feels weird without a hood (unless that weird fold in the cape is supposed to be a hood. I can't tell)

----------


## KrustyKid

> I can't get over how much I fucking LOVE this costume. Only thing I'd do is replace the high collar with a hood. He feels weird without a hood (unless that weird fold in the cape is supposed to be a hood. I can't tell)


I imagine it is. Can't have Damian without his good ole hood

----------


## Fergus

> I've noticed that Damian has footwear of all the Robins. I've liked his choice of footwear the most. Not pixie boots no Ninja split toe, just wearable and cool.



Edit

Meant to say that I've noticed that Damian has the *best footwear* of the Robins.

----------


## Fergus

Glad he isn't Peacekeeper 1. Though I wasn't expecting him to be.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

Future State is finally over, we survived once again! Just one more week to see Damian!  :Big Grin:

----------


## Blue22

And just like his previous Robin costume, it actually looks WAY better without the cape. Seriously. At this point point just ditch the cape and keep the hood.

----------


## Astralabius

> Future State is finally over, we survived once again! Just one more week to see Damian!


Glad FS is over, ever since they announced the backup stories with Damian and hinted towards something bigger coming after them I couldn't wait for March to arrive.

----------


## Astralabius

> I can't get over how much I fucking LOVE this costume. Only thing I'd do is replace the high collar with a hood. He feels weird without a hood (unless that weird fold in the cape is supposed to be a hood. I can't tell)


I think it's supposed to be a hood.

Gleb Melnikov posted this on twitter and it definitely looks like one here.

----------


## Frontier

> And just like his previous Robin costume, it actually looks WAY better without the cape. Seriously. At this point point just ditch the cape and keep the hood.


It looks off to me without the cape.

----------


## Zorkel567

> It looks off to me without the cape.


Yeah, I feel the same. I think the cape really completes the look.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> I think it's supposed to be a hood.
> 
> Gleb Melnikov posted this on twitter and it definitely looks like one here.


I'm really glad he included the hood. I remember that he said once, a long time ago, that he thought it was impractical, so I'm happy that he heard people's comments about how this is a very Damian thing that should be included in his costumes.

And I also prefer it with the cape, because I really like its bat shape. It's a nice reference for his character, imo.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

By the way, Gleb posted the colored version on instagram. Hood confirmed!

----------


## Blue22

> It looks off to me without the cape.





> Yeah, I feel the same. I think the cape really completes the look.


I might be biased because I side with Edna Mode on the whole "No capes" thing. Either way I prefer it that way lol

----------


## Restingvoice

> By the way, Gleb posted the colored version on instagram. Hood confirmed!


He still has that collar underneath. I prefer the hood. Anyway he looks adorable

----------


## Astralabius

> He still has that collar underneath. I prefer the hood. Anyway he looks adorable


He does look adorable.
I'm really pleased with the range of different situations Damian is shown to be in so far.
Meeting up with his mom, even sharing a hug with her, kneeing a guy in the face with a relaxed expression, sitting down to read a book.
Together with Williamson saying that Damian's pets, friends and family will make appearances sooner or later I feel like we'll be getting old Damian back.
I thought his characterization was rather flat in Teen Titans and lacked the qualities that had endeared Damian to me in his previous books.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I still prefer the cape... but maybe it's just a get used thing.

----------


## Morgoth

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/dami...nite-frontier/
Bleeding Cool leaked one more suit for Damian, he will wear in the first back-up.

----------


## Perfidiously

> https://bleedingcool.com/comics/dami...nite-frontier/
> Bleeding Cool leaked one more suit for Damian, he will wear in the first back-up.


Huh...I don't like this one as much, but maybe I need time to get used to it. I like the idea of a purple suit - it's nice to get away from the Robin colors + black/gray.

----------


## adrikito

> *Nightwing and Damian Wayne Are the PERFECT Dynamic Duo for Infinite Frontier*
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.cbr.com/nightwing-damian...ampaign=CBR-TW
> 
> Dick and Damian have come a long way and compliment each other so well. 
> 
> Come on Taylor and Williamson, make it happen and take all our monies.


Yeah. I think that some people forgot it for Supersons fault that they are the PERFECT Dynamic Duo.




> By the way, Gleb posted the colored version on instagram. Hood confirmed!


I was a little tired about Red between RED hood and RED Robin but.. I think now that Red fits damian.

I like it.. Not sure what to think about the purple cape.. I think that he will only wear that cape during 1 episode.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> https://bleedingcool.com/comics/dami...nite-frontier/
> Bleeding Cool leaked one more suit for Damian, he will wear in the first back-up.


This costume is super dramatic and took the Halloween theme to 100. lol But it kinda made me confused, because it really looks like his new Robin costume with some differences, like the mask and the cape, so I don't really understand what's happening. I really want to read it to understand.

----------


## Restingvoice

Ah. He's Thomas Wayne-ing

----------


## Fergus

> https://bleedingcool.com/comics/dami...nite-frontier/
> Bleeding Cool leaked one more suit for Damian, he will wear in the first back-up.


This is very dramatic. And the pose!

damian Wayne being extra is something I enjoy. He is without a doubt the funniest member of the bat family [unintentionally]

I like a lot about this scene mostly because he looks like a kid in his room in front of the mirror practising. 

The costume is too much though. Needs more work.

----------


## Fergus

> By the way, Gleb posted the colored version on instagram. Hood confirmed!


This adorable but also kind of sad. he looks like a kid. like a lonely kid just sitting on a crate. Reading.

I wonder what he's reading?

----------


## Perfidiously

> https://bleedingcool.com/comics/dami...nite-frontier/
> Bleeding Cool leaked one more suit for Damian, he will wear in the first back-up.


Tangentially - I hate the "heir to the Demon throne" angle here. He's already had the "the way I brought up was an awful nightmare, the al Ghuls are terrible" revelation. If you really want Damian to go a darker path, fine - but I'd much prefer him to go "screw Batman, screw the League of Assassins, I'm forging my own path."  I mean he's clearly going to go back to being Robin, but still. I hope that him trying to go back to the al Ghuls is a trick and not an actual desire of his, however temporary. Well, that or him trying to reform the League of Assassins, but this doesn't seem to be the way it's going either.

Also, I wonder if Mara al Ghul is ever going to show up again. What a character to create and then just kinda forget about.

----------


## Fergus

> Tangentially - I hate the "heir to the Demon throne" angle here. He's already had the "the way I brought up was an awful nightmare, the al Ghuls are terrible" revelation. If you really want Damian to go a darker path, fine - but I'd much prefer him to go "screw Batman, screw the League of Assassins, I'm forging my own path."  I mean he's clearly going to go back to being Robin, but still. I hope that him trying to go back to the al Ghuls is a trick and not an actual desire of his, however temporary. Well, that or him trying to reform the League of Assassins, but this doesn't seem to be the way it's going either.
> 
> Also, I wonder if Mara al Ghul is ever going to show up again. What a character to create and then just kinda forget about.


This would be an excellent way to reintroduce Maya and the Demon's Fist.

I don't mind Damian stating he is the Heir to the Demon or even going back to to the League and his Mother in his quest to find out his future/destination.

To move forward he has to face and make peace with his past and everything he is.

Damian is alone and young. He is clearly trying to find what's best for him and where he belongs in the world so it's understandable for him to go back.

I guess like most formerly indoctrinated people who manage to escape cults he might still be struggling [It was only 3 years ago in comic time] even if growing up in the LOa was nightmare.

I don't believe he is going back to the teachings of the LOA since the title is all about him getting back to the heroic path.

----------


## Astralabius

> This adorable but also kind of sad. he looks like a kid. like a lonely kid just sitting on a crate. Reading.
> 
> I wonder what he's reading?


He doesn't seem sad though, he has a small smile on his lips.

Maybe it's just because it's not colored, but the way the panel above him is drawn reminds me of manga.

----------


## Perfidiously

> This would be an excellent way to reintroduce Maya and the Demon's Fist.
> 
> I don't mind Damian stating he is the Heir to the Demon or even going back to to the League and his Mother in his quest to find out his future/destination.
> 
> To move forward he has to face and make peace with his past and everything he is.
> 
> Damian is alone and young. He is clearly trying to find what's best for him and where he belongs in the world so it's understandable for him to go back.
> 
> I guess like most formerly indoctrinated people who manage to escape cults he might still be struggling [It was only 3 years ago in comic time] even if growing up in the LOa was nightmare.
> ...


I'd love to see Mara & the Demon's Fist again! At least with the Demon's Fist, they're presumably off doing their own thing, maybe finding their families. Mara's still stuck with Ra's and having a terrible time, probably. I'd love to see more of her and Damian's relationship, there's so many stories you can do.

You make a good point re: League of Assassins and Damian going back...Him still being young & struggling is why I don't mind the more villainous turn he's taking for now. He'd spent the vast majority of his life in a horrific environment, and even after coming to Gotham has experienced a lot of trauma. It makes sense that he'd regress, especially since one of the issues he struggles with is thinking he's inherently evil, beyond redemption, etc. I guess I'm more annoyed about his terrible past sometimes being downplayed, and am kinda worried it will happen here. And I liked how he progressed from working with Batman but still faithful to the League, then beginning to doubt, then outright angry and rejecting the old teachings. It's hard for me to buy him thinking "well maybe Ra's won't try and steal my body to use as his own this time", even if he probably does miss other aspects of growing up in the League.

I definitely agree that he's not going back permanently (the whole 'getting back to the heroic path' thing makes it clear). I kinda suspect that Ra's is going to reject his appeal to rejoin the League? I guess we'll see.

----------


## Perfidiously

> He doesn't seem sad though, he has a small smile on his lips.
> 
> Maybe it's just because it's not colored, but the way the panel above him is drawn reminds me of manga.


You're right, it does look like manga. Aww, I'd be into Damian reading manga.

----------


## Astralabius

> Tangentially - I hate the "heir to the Demon throne" angle here. He's already had the "the way I brought up was an awful nightmare, the al Ghuls are terrible" revelation. If you really want Damian to go a darker path, fine - but I'd much prefer him to go "screw Batman, screw the League of Assassins, I'm forging my own path."  I mean he's clearly going to go back to being Robin, but still. I hope that him trying to go back to the al Ghuls is a trick and not an actual desire of his, however temporary. Well, that or him trying to reform the League of Assassins, but this doesn't seem to be the way it's going either.
> 
> Also, I wonder if Mara al Ghul is ever going to show up again. What a character to create and then just kinda forget about.


I'm not taking what he's saying here seriously until I read the whole story.
Williamson said that he would put Damian back on a heroic path after Teen Titans pushed him more on the path of a villain several times in interviews, and this angle would be an odd way to accomplish that.

Damian also has a history of trying to con people into believing he will join them/turn his back on heroism for various reasons.
He did it in the Born to Kill arc with Nobody (and Bruce), he joined the Court of Owls to protect Dick in Robin War, he pretended to join Ra's in the first arc of Teen Titans (2016) and he acted like he was loyal to his "father" Deathstroke in the Deathstroke vs Batman arc during Priest's Deathstroke run.

I wouldn't get upset just yet.

----------


## Perfidiously

> I'm not taking what he's saying here seriously until I read the whole story.
> Williamson said that he would put Damian back on a heroic path after Teen Titans pushed him more on the path of a villain several times in interviews, and this angle would be an odd way to accomplish that.
> 
> Damian also has a history of trying to con people into believing he will join them/turn his back on heroism for various reasons.
> He did it in the Born to Kill arc with Nobody (and Bruce), he joined the Court of Owls to protect Dick in Robin War, he pretended to join Ra's in the first arc of Teen Titans (2016) and he acted like he was loyal to his "father" Deathstroke in the Deathstroke vs Batman arc during Priest's Deathstroke run.
> 
> I wouldn't get upset just yet.


Yeah, that's fair. I just had a real visceral "ugh no" reaction - I'll hold out judgment until the story actually comes out.

Man, it's funny seeing all the times he pretended to join up with people listed out. He really does do it a lot, doesn't he? I wonder if he's going to end up, like, fake joining Legion of Doom or whatever in the future.

----------


## Astralabius

> Yeah, that's fair. I just had a real visceral "ugh no" reaction - I'll hold out judgment until the story actually comes out.
> 
> Man, it's funny seeing all the times he pretended to join up with people listed out. He really does do it a lot, doesn't he? I wonder if he's going to end up, like, fake joining Legion of Doom or whatever in the future.


I wasn't thrilled either, but this was posted by bleedingcool and they love riling people up over out of context panels, so I tried to approach this with scepticism right from the start. One thing that I found odd was that they seem to have covered up the rest of the speech bubbles in that panel. Maybe those will already clear up some things? We'll have to wait and see.

The solicitation says he had to escape from Gotham and some of the art Melnikov posted indicates what I assume to be League of Lazarus or League of Assassins members are trying to attack him and Talia. I'm leaning more towards League of Lazarus because the art shows them attacking Talia and they are supposed to be this mysterious and until now unknown faction of the League that we'll get to know in Robin.
They are probably the reason he had to leave Gotham.

Anyway, I wouldn't be suprised if it turns out Damian is just saying what he's saying in that panel because the League of Lazarus either pressured him into acting like this or he's pretending to return to the league in hopes of getting more information about them this way.

----------


## Astralabius

The article claims to be about the purple color of his cape and suit, but since it's pretty obvious it's just the lighting I doubt that was the real reason they wrote it. They probably wanted to get attention for what Damian is saying without outright claiming that Damian wants to be Ra's heir again because they probably already know that that's not true.
They get the attention without technically saying anything wrong or misleading.

----------


## Fergus

I hate the idea of Damian believing he's evil. That that's his nature. That is sad and untrue. Like he's a lost cause. I know DC has tried to paint him as such in some stories and some readers and characters believe and have said as much. 

That is bonk.

damian isn't evil and he never was. he did some bad things in the past which he worked very hard to atone for.

He became a hero because he saw that there was another way not just the LOA way. He made the decision to become a hero even before he became Robin. Alone in Gotham before joining the family.

He has made mistakes and has made some bad decisions but he isn't evil. All heroes have made mistakes.

It sucks whenever a writer goes down the heel turn path with Damian after he spent years fighting for redemption.

I don't think they should do those turns evil type stories with heroes like Damian. A young kid who started off with the odds stacked against him but still determined to change what the world believed to be his destiny.

He over came intense brainwashing and a bloody childhood just so to fall back again? That's hopeless and besides DC does far too many 'becomes evil' type stories with the bat kids. Enough already

----------


## Fergus

> He doesn't seem sad though, he has a small smile on his lips.
> 
> Maybe it's just because it's not colored, but the way the panel above him is drawn reminds me of manga.


It might be the way he's sat with the hood and he's body position. Like he's cold or something. I don't know it's just my 1st impression on seeing the panel was 'poor thing' not sure why.

Williamson in interviews has mentioned naruto re the tournament and I hope the manga/anime influences doesn't stop there.

Superson's I've noticed has some anime vibes which my kids really like. With how popular manga and anime currently is such such vibes might be positive.

DC and Comics in general might do well to emulate Japanese style to lure some of that lucrative market. If they are serious about going after the YA market it's going to take more than just putting out some watered down reimagining's of their heroes penned by YA authors to crack that market.

----------


## Eckri

> By the way, Gleb posted the colored version on instagram. Hood confirmed!


Judging by that bag near him he's going on a roadtrip. Chasing after the league? That's a good reason for Damian to go around places, granted no Wayne funds or Al Ghul gold, just a boy with skills trying to survive, sounds fun. Is he going full nomad, or have permanent HQ to on, maybe temporary HQs. I'd his HQ in Detective comics, Damian setting up a crude HQ in the place he's doing his mission, hope they role with that idea. 

Obviously still he's going to clash with Dick's Titans Academy in the future, here's hoping what's that going to be like, no doubt Dick knows Damian enough that inviting him to join the Titans is not what he needs.

----------


## Morgoth

I'm still sure that Damian's goal here is to use Lazarus Pit to resurrect Alfred, and that's the reason why he went after League of Assassins, and participates in tournament.
And regarding Titans, I think Williamson at some point use them to finally resolve their conflict with each other. But Dick obviously will not invite Damian to the Academy, it would be stupid, he perfectly understands that it will not work.

----------


## Astralabius

> Judging by that bag near him he's going on a roadtrip. Chasing after the league? That's a good reason for Damian to go around places, granted no Wayne funds or Al Ghul gold, just a boy with skills trying to survive, sounds fun. Is he going full nomad, or have permanent HQ to on, maybe temporary HQs. I'd his HQ in Detective comics, Damian setting up a crude HQ in the place he's doing his mission, hope they role with that idea. 
> 
> Obviously still he's going to clash with Dick's Titans Academy in the future, here's hoping what's that going to be like, no doubt Dick knows Damian enough that inviting him to join the Titans is not what he needs.


The tournament is held on an island by the League of Lazarus and I assume he'll stay on that island for most of the arc, so several months in our time.
With only one issue coming out each month the tournament will probably take some time.
They probably have quarters for the participants.

Why does he have to clash with Dick's Titans Academy? I didn't hear anything about crossover plans for that book with Robin so far.
We know Damian will meet Jon again outside of the Robin ongoing and Taylor and Williamson both seem open to do a crossover with Nightwing and Robin, but only at a later date.
Plus, Damian was the one who suggested founding the Academy to Nightwing, I don't see why he would be upset about it. It was his idea.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

Honestly, I also hate the idea of Damian becoming heir of the League or something, but there's no point of worrying about just a single line of text. I will just wait to see the whole thing to understand the context and what's going to happen. It's funny, but because Joshua and Gleb talked a lot about Robin and showed a lot WIPs, respectively, I forgot we don't really know yet what the story is about. :P 




> I'm still sure that Damian's goal here is to use Lazarus Pit to resurrect Alfred, and that's the reason why he went after League of Assassins, and participates in tournament.
> And regarding Titans, I think Williamson at some point use them to finally resolve their conflict with each other. But Dick obviously will not invite Damian to the Academy, it would be stupid, he perfectly understands that it will not work.


I also think, and hope, that this arc will have something to do with Alfred. About the Titans, I don't think they will cross with Damian anymore. Im pretty sure this matter was solved in the end of the run, no need to bring it up just to keep villainizing him. And, besides, everyone has been ignoring it for a while now.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Honestly, I also hate the idea of Damian becoming heir of the League or something, but there's no point of worrying about just a single line of text. I will just wait to see the whole thing to understand the context and what's going to happen. It's funny, but because Joshua and Gleb talked a lot about Robin and showed a lot WIPs, respectively, I forgot we don't really know yet what the story is about. :P


It's not new for Damian to get not-quite-peaceful leaks to raise the shock and suspense. And I think both Gleb and Williamson did a very good job on promoting Robin, we can feel their excitement and it makes us excited too. That's why it's important for creators to love their own works. I think the reason Damian fans can survive 2 months without reading anything about Damian is because those two and their steady but vague Robin leaks.





> I also think, and hope, that this arc will have something to do with Alfred. About the Titans, I don't think they will cross with Damian anymore. I’m pretty sure this matter was solved in the end of the run, no need to bring it up just to keep villainizing him. And, besides, everyone has been ignoring it for a while now.


Quite conflicted about this. The matter is hardly solved, more like swept under the rug with Damian somehow took a job as postman, but if they will bring it just to villainizing Damian, best if it get forgotten completely. 

Btw, looks like Gleb loves purple. I see many purple color on his works. Not really my preference color but it's quite refreshing to see purple after constant red and black on Damian's comics.

----------


## DragonPiece

> I'm still sure that Damian's goal here is to use Lazarus Pit to resurrect Alfred, and that's the reason why he went after League of Assassins, and participates in tournament.
> And regarding Titans, I think Williamson at some point use them to finally resolve their conflict with each other. But Dick obviously will not invite Damian to the Academy, it would be stupid, he perfectly understands that it will not work.


Yep, it seems like too easy of a plotline for Damian's future based on everything we've seen.

----------


## Blue22

> Quite conflicted about this. The matter is hardly solved, more like swept under the rug with Damian somehow took a job as postman, but if they will bring it just to villainizing Damian, best if it get forgotten completely.


^This^

I may have hated Glass' Titans but what I hated even more is how Damian's storyline in Tec just seemed to....overlook and downplay everything he did and turned it into him just acting out because he misses Alfred (granted, that Titans run also made everything about Alfred towards the end, when it was *never* about him). I don't want them to just act like it never happened. Especially since he really did seem to care about his old teammates and vice versa. I don't want him back with them, of course, but I'd at least like to see some closure. Just...you know...as long as they don't keep acting like Damian was the *only* loose canon (Yeah that "Robin can't force you to do anything, anymore" line from Dick still bothers the hell out of me)

----------


## Astralabius

> ^This^
> 
> I may have hated Glass' Titans but what I hated even more is how Damian's storyline in Tec just seemed to....overlook and downplay everything he did and turned it into him just acting out because he misses Alfred (granted, that Titans run also made everything about Alfred towards the end, when it was *never* about him). I don't want them to just act like it never happened. Especially since he really did seem to care about his old teammates and vice versa. I don't want him back with them, of course, but I'd at least like to see some closure. Just...you know...as long as they don't keep acting like Damian was the *only* loose canon (Yeah that "Robin can't force you to do anything, anymore" line from Dick still bothers the hell out of me)


Eh, I don't know. I had my problems with Damian's arc in Tec too, but Damian's entire storyline had been such a mess ever since No Justice came out, I'm fine with sweeping it all under the rug if it means getting a somewhat fresh start that opens up the possibility for him to have a cool story and to show up in other books again.

----------


## Astralabius

> It's not new for Damian to get not-quite-peaceful leaks to raise the shock and suspense. And I think both Gleb and Williamson did a very good job on promoting Robin, we can feel their excitement and it makes us excited too. That's why it's important for creators to love their own works. I think the reason Damian fans can survive 2 months without reading anything about Damian is because those two and their steady but vague Robin leaks.
> 
> 
> 
> Quite conflicted about this. The matter is hardly solved, more like swept under the rug with Damian somehow took a job as postman, but if they will bring it just to villainizing Damian, best if it get forgotten completely. 
> 
> Btw, looks like Gleb loves purple. I see many purple color on his works. Not really my preference color but it's quite refreshing to see purple after constant red and black on Damian's comics.


If Gleb hadn't posted all those wips I might have died of boredom. I had no interest in Future State.
Williamson has talked about making Damian a hero again several times, I really see no reason to think of that bit of dialogue as anything more than Damian lying about his true plans again.

I really don't think that outfit is purple. Pretty sure it's just gray and the lighting Gleb used gives it a purple tint.

----------


## Eckri

New Batman issue dropped. 
*spoilers:*
So far: Damian says he rejected Batman, Talia says Damian has nothing to show, Assassins show up, Talia gets a blade to her neck which she tells Damian to kill the assassin, Damian hesitates, and the last panel is a blood splatter. Let's be honest it's Talia killing the man and honest to god disappointed in Damian didn't take the kill, and guessing by it, sends Damian off into the tournament. Nothing to say so far just setting up his series.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## the1&onlyE.

*spoilers:*
I really enjoyed this issue, so sad it was short! 

But, I must say, on one hand this whole Ra's al Ghul thing worries me a little bit. On the other, however, I kinda knew already it would start like this, so it's not a huge surprise. I nervous and excited for what comes next! All in all, I'm just glad Damian is back.  :Smile: 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## the1&onlyE.

Fun facts about Damian's costume in the back-up:
- Gleb Melnikov said it was a little bit inspired in Etrigan and it is extra on purpose to show that Damian is trying to look cool and demonic. 
- Gleb also made it look weird and funny purpose to represent the fact that a kid made it.

I loved this, and to me it made it even better. I'm also happy he always seems to have in mind that Damian is a child, because I feel that a lot of artists sometimes don't really take it into account, and a lot of them don't even draw kids in the right way, just making them look like little adults. Happily, this is not case here!

Its also funny to me how it seems that that black and white costume with the golden gloves was probably just made to mislead the public, because it wasnt even used. It just appeared again in one panel from Infinite Frontier.

----------


## adrikito

This is the Biggest 13-14 years Damian version that I saw until now

Infinite Frontier Damian Wayne.jpg

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> This is the Biggest 13-14 years Damian version that I saw until now
> 
> Infinite Frontier Damian Wayne.jpg


They finally remembered he's 14 not 10.

----------


## CPSparkles

Loved the backup. Enjoyed Talia and Damian's interaction. so hype for the Robin solo and  Talia interacting more with Damian.

Talia really is a princess. Just because one is laying low doesn't mean you skimp on the finer things

----------


## CPSparkles

> They finally remembered he's 14 not 10.


When did he turn 14?

----------


## CPSparkles

> This is the Biggest 13-14 years Damian version that I saw until now
> 
> Infinite Frontier Damian Wayne.jpg


Yeah give me Damian who looks like a kid. I like that he looks younger than his age. This is almost as jarring as Liefeld's Damian.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Fun facts about Damian's costume in the back-up:
> - Gleb Melnikov said it was a little bit inspired in Etrigan and it is extra on purpose to show that Damian is trying to look cool and demonic. 
> - Gleb also made it look weird and funny purpose to represent the fact that a kid made it.
> 
> I loved this, and to me it made it even better. I'm also happy he always seems to have in mind that Damian is a child, because I feel that a lot of artists sometimes don't really take it into account, and a lot of them don't even draw kids in the right way, just making them look like little adults. Happily, this is not case here!
> 
> It’s also funny to me how it seems that that black and white costume with the golden gloves was probably just made to mislead the public, because it wasn’t even used. It just appeared again in one panel from Infinite Frontier.


I love all the fun facts.

Etrigan being an inspiration for the look is especially sweet spot since Damian/Etrigan is a dream team up of mine since Etrigan briefly took a shine to Damian in the Animated movies.

----------


## PowerPlay25

> Talia really is a princess. Just because one is laying low doesn't mean you skimp on the finer things


I really love this about her.

And it is all so non-note worthy for her.  Are her surroundings luxurious?  Of course, she could never tolerate less.  :Smile:

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> When did he turn 14?


Around Teen Titans Rebirth




> Yeah give me Damian who looks like a kid. I like that he looks younger than his age. This is almost as jarring as Liefeld's Damian.


Damian looking the same age as 10 year old Jon while being closer to Emiko's and Wallace's age is pretty jarring too.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Fun facts about Damian's costume in the back-up:
> - Gleb Melnikov said it was a little bit inspired in Etrigan and it is extra on purpose to show that Damian is trying to look cool and demonic. 
> - Gleb also made it look weird and funny purpose to represent the fact that a kid made it.
> 
> I loved this, and to me it made it even better. I'm also happy he always seems to have in mind that Damian is a child, because I feel that a lot of artists sometimes don't really take it into account, and a lot of them don't even draw kids in the right way, just making them look like little adults. Happily, this is not case here!
> 
> Its also funny to me how it seems that that black and white costume with the golden gloves was probably just made to mislead the public, because it wasnt even used. It just appeared again in one panel from Infinite Frontier.


So basically Damian gets his turn on "Robin with fashion disaster" era. It's about time. Embrace that tradition, Damian..
I don't think the black and white costume with the golden gloves was just made to mislead the public. The costume especially the golden gloves are loved by majority fans. Even Gleb made fanart contest based on that costume.

----------


## Light of Justice

> This is the Biggest 13-14 years Damian version that I saw until now
> 
> Attachment 106791


I'm on "prefer big and more mature looking Damian" side, but I think that art is quite too much. He doesn't even look like teen. Heck, he looks older than Dick from the same picture.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> This is the Biggest 13-14 years Damian version that I saw until now
> 
> Attachment 106791


I saw it and it looks super weird; he seems way older than 14 here. I guess this is one of those artists that are not very good at drawing kids, sadly.




> When did he turn 14?


As far as I'm concerned, he didn't. Last time his age was stated in panel was in Tomasi's Detective Comics arc, in which it is said he is 13, and technically Demon or Detective happens right after it.




> So basically Damian gets his turn on "Robin with fashion disaster" era. It's about time. Embrace that tradition, Damian..
> I don't think the black and white costume with the golden gloves was just made to mislead the public. The costume especially the golden gloves are loved by majority fans. Even Gleb made fanart contest based on that costume.


I think it was made to mislead the public, because, even though people loved it, it wasn't really used for anything. I initially thought it was supposed to be a transitional costume until he got Robin back, but that's not the case? It seems to me they just created it to don't give away immediately he would go back to Robin, since a lot of people saw in the Infinite Mysteries cover and assumed he would have a new identity.

----------


## Frontier

> Fun facts about Damian's costume in the back-up:
> - Gleb Melnikov said it was a little bit inspired in Etrigan and it is extra on purpose to show that Damian is trying to look cool and demonic. 
> - Gleb also made it look weird and funny purpose to represent the fact that a kid made it.
> 
> I loved this, and to me it made it even better. I'm also happy he always seems to have in mind that Damian is a child, because I feel that a lot of artists sometimes don't really take it into account, and a lot of them don't even draw kids in the right way, just making them look like little adults. Happily, this is not case here!
> 
> Its also funny to me how it seems that that black and white costume with the golden gloves was probably just made to mislead the public, because it wasnt even used. It just appeared again in one panel from Infinite Frontier.


Damian and his fashion sense  :Stick Out Tongue: .

----------


## CPSparkles

> Around Teen Titans Rebirth
> 
> 
> 
> Damian looking the same age as 10 year old Jon while being closer to Emiko's and Wallace's age is pretty jarring too.


he turned 13 in Rebirth and I'm a fan of the opposite type of jarring which is why I'm so pleased that the teaser art from the upcoming Robin solo seems to be continuing that kiddy look.

It's already hard enough telling Damian apart from Timmy without both looking like they are both 14.

----------


## CPSparkles

> I really love this about her.
> 
> And it is all so non-note worthy for her.  Are her surroundings luxurious?  Of course, she could never tolerate less.


I really love that too.

----------


## Blue22

> he turned 13 in Rebirth and I'm a fan of the opposite type of jarring which is why I'm so pleased that the teaser art from the upcoming Robin solo seems to be continuing that kiddy look.
> 
> It's already hard enough telling Damian apart from Timmy without both looking like they are both 14.


Yeah I'm fine with smol Damian. I think its kinda funny that he, of all people,  would be such a late bloomer. Plus I still remember the freshmen looking even younger than him when I was in high school so its not completely unbelievable. 

But I wouldnt be opposed to him looking older. He looked alright in that issue of King's book, where Bruce and Selina went to see Talia. He was a passable 13-14 without looking like he and Tim were the same age.

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/gothamtwinks



https://twitter.com/JaimealphonsoWi

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8



https://twitter.com/Napschnapps

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/artbyavasan

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/MaruDavalosArt

Supersons



https://twitter.com/leendraws

----------


## Perfidiously

My headcanon is that Damian looks younger than he should for his age specifically because he died for a while there. It stalled his growth for a while, but he'll shoot up in a couple years.

Generally, I don't mind him looking for a while longer, to differentiate more from Tim, and also because in real life some 14-year olds do look real young.

----------


## Fergus

> https://twitter.com/MaruDavalosArt
> 
> Supersons
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/leendraws


Thanks for all the Fan art Posting.
Enjoying all the fans and professionals having fun drawing Damian in his new costumes. Great Fan/audience participation.

The Supersons piece is vert well done. Jon here is very American Alien by Landis

----------


## Fergus

I too don't mind a younger looking Damian.
-Visual distinctions amongst the bat kids is a positive. Since Tim is teen Robin Damian can be pre teen Robin.
-It makes a lot of his shenanigans funnier Imo
- The irony. the gene perfected kid of two tall parent is so short.

----------


## sifighter

I think a good middle ground for Damian is how he looked in the original DCeased, he was short because of his age but he wasn’t small. I just think if Jon is around as in his mid to late teens we can make Damian a little taller, because while Jon is 16 or 17 right now I think Damian should be a least almost 15 at this point.

----------


## Astralabius

> I think a good middle ground for Damian is how he looked in the original DCeased, he was short because of his age but he wasnt small. I just think if Jon is around as in his mid to late teens we can make Damian a little taller, because while Jon is 16 or 17 right now I think Damian should be a least almost 15 at this point.


Damian's isn't even 14 as far as we know, his age was still stated to be 13 in Tomasi's last arc on Tec.
We just have to accept that ages and heights make little sense in comics.
He's 13 until stated otherwise and he's small (just like all the other Robins before him) to make Batman look taller and to make it clear that he's the youngest.

----------


## sifighter

> Damian's isn't even 14 as far as we know, his age was still stated to be 13 in Tomasi's last arc on Tec.
> We just have to accept that ages and heights make little sense in comics.
> He's 13 until stated otherwise and he's small (just like all the other Robins before him) to make Batman look taller and to make it clear that he's the youngest.


See I just dont believe that, I read it but in my head it made no sense. I keep going back to it but if Aquaman and Mera now have a daughter after the events of no-Justice then it makes no sense that Damian is only 13. Their daughter was a couple months old during Endless winter which is around right after Damian left the Titans. At some point hed have to be at least 14.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> I too don't mind a younger looking Damian.
> -Visual distinctions amongst the bat kids is a positive. Since Tim is teen Robin Damian can be pre teen Robin.
> -It makes a lot of his shenanigans funnier Imo
> - The irony. the gene perfected kid of two tall parent is so short.


In terms of visual distinctions amongst the other batkids, DC could commit with giving him a darker skin color, but they're cowards. Sometimes I see that Gleb paints him with darker skin, but let's see if editorial will allow it continuously in the book.




> See I just dont believe that, I read it but in my head it made no sense. I keep going back to it but if Aquaman and Mera now have a daughter after the events of no-Justice then it makes no sense that Damian is only 13. Their daughter was a couple months old during Endless winter which is around right after Damian left the Titans. At some point hed have to be at least 14.


It really makes no sense, but time and natural aging in comics just doesn't work, so he will probably only be aged in the future if a story line demands it. In fact, he's only 13 nowadays because Teen Titans needed him to be a teen, because, otherwise, I think he would still be 10.

----------


## Blue22

Its funny because before Bendis swooped in, and did his usual job of breaking things, Jon was said to have turned 11 at some point. Which means he got a year older while Damian is still 13 xD

Damian SHOULD be 14 at this point. But apparently he's not.

----------


## sifighter

> Its funny because before Bendis swooped in, and did his usual job of breaking things, Jon was said to have turned 11 at some point. Which means he got a year older while Damian is still 13 xD
> 
> Damian SHOULD be 14 at this point. But apparently he's not.


Wait I thought that was Tomasi who made Jon 11? I might be remembering wrong honestly.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

In my opinion, the only way Damian is too hard to distinguish from Tim Drake is if he's white-washed. But then again even Jason and Dick are still distinct despite having identical features.

----------


## Light of Justice

> In my opinion, the only way Damian is too hard to distinguish from Tim Drake is if he's white-washed. But then again even Jason and Dick are still distinct despite having identical features.


Now even when he was white washed, he has undercut hair, a trait that I think only belongs to him. And actually, I can't really differentiate between Jason and Dick without Jason's white streak and his jacket. Also Jason and Tim. Also Dick and Bruce. Like on this picture.
family.jpg
Dick is quite distinct but I admit that at first I thought Bruce is Dick, Dick is Tim, and Tim is Jason (or he's indeed Jason, it's quite unclear). DC's inability to be consistent about bat boys age difference doesn't help at all. I mean, I heard that now Tim is still 16? I also heard that Jason is 19 so he's also still teen? (CMIIW)

----------


## sifighter

I feel like Jason has to be in his 20's, I feel like that is how he is generally depicted, but I could see his age being all messed up because he was dead for a while.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Now even when he was white washed, he has undercut hair, a trait that I think only belongs to him. And actually, I can't really differentiate between Jason and Dick without Jason's white streak and his jacket. Also Jason and Tim. Also Dick and Bruce. Like on this picture.
> family.jpg
> Dick is quite distinct but I admit that at first I thought Bruce is Dick, Dick is Tim, and Tim is Jason (or he's indeed Jason, it's quite unclear). DC's inability to be consistent about bat boys age difference doesn't help at all. I mean, I heard that now Tim is still 16? I also heard that Jason is 19 so he's also still teen? (CMIIW)


Jason's had undercut too but he's never that small. 
I think that one's Tim since Jason should be at The Hill and avoiding Batman, but then again, Damian's here. Either way, I still think it's Tim because even if you know nothing about Jason or Damian's state, it's easy to think to exclude Jason thanks to being the shooter black sheep of the Bat fam.

Steph is 19 at the end of Rebirth so Tim should be 18. That would fit the college scholarship. 

Though if we go by Damian aging from 10 to 13 from New 52 to Rebirth Tim should be 19.

Jason's age never mentioned, but we think he's 19 in New 52 based on that New 52 Robin started at 15-16 and he started 2 years after Dick. 

Anyway, the timeline has been realigned now. It's not gonna affect Damian's age, but at this point, we don't know how much older everyone else will be.

In the last year of Post Crisis, the arrangement is like this
Damian 10
Tim 17
Stephanie 18
Jason 20
Cass 20
Dick 26
Bruce 41

----------


## Astralabius

> Now even when he was white washed, he has undercut hair, a trait that I think only belongs to him. And actually, I can't really differentiate between Jason and Dick without Jason's white streak and his jacket. Also Jason and Tim. Also Dick and Bruce. Like on this picture.
> family.jpg
> Dick is quite distinct but I admit that at first I thought Bruce is Dick, Dick is Tim, and Tim is Jason (or he's indeed Jason, it's quite unclear). DC's inability to be consistent about bat boys age difference doesn't help at all. I mean, I heard that now Tim is still 16? I also heard that Jason is 19 so he's also still teen? (CMIIW)


Damian only came back to the family to get his presents and then he vanished again XD
Jurgens confirmed it was him on twitter, it's nice that he included Damian, but it doesn't really fit with what's going on with him right now.

----------


## CPSparkles

Curly haired Damian




https://sapodilas.tumblr.com

----------


## CPSparkles

Bruce carrying Damian



https://jessquick.tumblr.com




https://nightwingthebooty.tumblr.com

----------


## CPSparkles

This Variant by Francis Manupaul is FIRE!

----------


## CPSparkles

Damian is the funniest Batkid

----------


## CPSparkles

https://catmomcass.tumblr.com

----------


## CPSparkles

Looking forward to more Talia from Williamson

----------


## CPSparkles

Saw this post and thought how true

All Damian vs Bruce fights: always end up with Damian accidentally slipping and falling from a high place and making Bruce jump behind him to shield him from the fall.

All Damian vs Dick fights: always end up with Dick trying to restrain Damian instead of hitting him back.

All Damian vs Jason fights: always start with Jason saying that he will not fight a child, but always end up with him fighting a child.

All Damian vs Tim fights: always start with Tim saying that he WILL fight a child and always end up with him fighting the said child.

----------


## Fergus

> Damian is the funniest Batkid


Damian is a very funny kid. Forgot about that Damian  had a story in that Robin Annual

----------


## Fergus

> Saw this post and thought how true
> 
> All Damian vs Bruce fights: always end up with Damian accidentally slipping and falling from a high place and making Bruce jump behind him to shield him from the fall.
> 
> All Damian vs Dick fights: always end up with Dick trying to restrain Damian instead of hitting him back.
> 
> All Damian vs Jason fights: always start with Jason saying that he will not fight a child, but always end up with him fighting a child.
> 
> All Damian vs Tim fights: always start with Tim saying that he WILL fight a child and always end up with him fighting the said child.


One of the many reasons why Dick Grayson is simply the best. You'll never catch him throwing hands with a child.

He acts like a grown up, never getting down to Damian's level of childish behaviour. Takes control of the situation and diffuses the situation. This  is why Damian and DC heroes have such respect for him.

Bruce his parental instincts kick in regardless of how pissed off/bratty Damian gets.

Jason and Tim, Damian is always able to get to them. He controls the situation so their confrontations always go the way Damian planned. The situation escalates to  throwing hands and nothing ever gets resolved. Kiddy frolics

----------


## Restingvoice

> Saw this post and thought how true
> 
> All Damian vs Bruce fights: always end up with Damian accidentally slipping and falling from a high place and making Bruce jump behind him to shield him from the fall.
> 
> All Damian vs Dick fights: always end up with Dick trying to restrain Damian instead of hitting him back.
> 
> All Damian vs Jason fights: always start with Jason saying that he will not fight a child, but always end up with him fighting a child.
> 
> All Damian vs Tim fights: always start with Tim saying that he WILL fight a child and always end up with him fighting the said child.


There's another one where he tallied all the Damian and Dick hugs and half of it is just Dick restraining Damian from beating up someone

----------


## Astralabius

We're getting solicitations on friday, right?

Williamson said he's writing the solicitations for Robin himself and he doesn't want to spoil too much through them, but I'm still curious.

----------


## Fergus

I wish these two interacted more often



Their interactions are always packed with comedy gold.

Side note The Signal writer is savage.

----------


## Fergus

> We're getting solicitations on friday, right?
> 
> Williamson said he's writing the solicitations for Robin himself and he doesn't want to spoil too much through them, but I'm still curious.


I believe so. What are your thoughts on the back up?

Williamson proved a long time ago that he's got a good handle on Damain's character so I wasn't worried.

His Talia was a surprise and a delight.

I feel the Robin title is going to strike the right balance between humour, action and emotion.

I have high hopes.

----------


## Fergus

> There's another one where he tallied all the Damian and Dick hugs and half of it is just Dick restraining Damian from beating up someone


I can believe that. Dick puts him in a bear hug to calm him. Like parents swaddle very young babies.

----------


## Fergus

> Looking forward to more Talia from Williamson


Glass houses Talia, because Ra's and Talia aren't known for theatrical antics.

Toss in Dick Grayson's influence Damian wasn't ever going to be anything but OTT levels of dramatics.

i wonder if we'll get Talia and Bruce interactions in Robin? I enjoy their bickering

----------


## Astralabius

> I believe so. What are your thoughts on the back up?
> 
> Williamson proved a long time ago that he's got a good handle on Damain's character so I wasn't worried.
> 
> His Talia was a surprise and a delight.
> 
> I feel the Robin title is going to strike the right balance between humour, action and emotion.
> 
> I have high hopes.


It was only 8 pages long, so jury is still out. I'm waiting for the second part.

I thought the cliffhanger could have been better though. We know Talia is not going to die here, in fact the blood is probably from her killing the guy who threatened her.
If the cliffhanger was supposed to make me wonder if Damian killed him then the only thing I can say is that it doesn't matter. Damian already threw all of his character developement out the window in Teen Titans when he killed Brother Blood and he didn't have an arc that made him re-learn that he shouldn't kill since then.
Didn't really make me feel any suspense.
I know it's difficult to tell a story in 8 pages though, so I'm not too bothered by it.

----------


## Astralabius

> Glass houses Talia, because Ra's and Talia aren't known for theatrical antics.
> 
> Toss in Dick Grayson's influence Damian wasn't ever going to be anything but OTT levels of dramatics.
> 
> i wonder if we'll get Talia and Bruce interactions in Robin? I enjoy their bickering


Damian gets his theatrical side from both his parents, but Bruce and Talia love to blame everything they don't like about their son on the other parent, even when the flaw in question applies to themselves too.

----------


## CPSparkles

So Bendis is doing a Checkmate book that features Robin. here's hoping it's not Damian.

----------


## CPSparkles

> There's another one where he tallied all the Damian and Dick hugs and half of it is just Dick restraining Damian from beating up someone


Yeah I've seen that post and it's funny and factual.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

So, it seems Bendis will write Damian again. Joy. At least he's just a guest.

----------


## Jackalope89

> So, it seems Bendis will write Damian again. Joy. At least he's just a guest.


Oh yay. More Bendis stuff to ignore.

----------


## Astralabius

> Oh yay. More Bendis stuff to ignore.


Couldn't agree more.

----------


## CPSparkles

> So, it seems Bendis will write Damian again. Joy. At least he's just a guest.


Nice Avatar  :Smile:

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> Nice Avatar


Thanks! It's from an old Gleb Melnikov drawing: https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...46349906223104  :Big Grin:

----------


## Blue22

> So Bendis is doing a Checkmate book that features Robin. here's hoping it's not Damian.


I kinda hate that we're still at a point where we sometimes have to wonder whether or not "Robin" means Damian or Tim XD




> So, it seems Bendis will write Damian again. Joy. At least he's just a guest.


Oh my God, Bendis! Just write Tim! You've already admitted you like him more. And your Damian is is shit. Just. Write. TIM!

----------


## Wingin' It

> I kinda hate that we're still at a point where we sometimes have to wonder whether or not "Robin" means Damian or Tim XD
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my God, Bendis! Just write Tim! You've already admitted you like him more. And your Damian is is shit. Just. Write. TIM!


Yeah, I am a little worried about how Damian will be depicted after how much of a stinker Event Levithan turned out to be. No more, not now that Damian finally has a less-edgy direction!

----------


## Astralabius

> I kinda hate that we're still at a point where we sometimes have to wonder whether or not "Robin" means Damian or Tim XD
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my God, Bendis! Just write Tim! You've already admitted you like him more. And your Damian is is shit. Just. Write. TIM!


Having two Robins just leads to confusion.
I hope Tim's story in Urban Legends will lead to him finding a new purpose and finally a good identity that is just his own.
I don't think 40 year old Tim as Robin like in FS: Justice League is something any reasonable fan of Tim wants for him.

I really don't get why he insists on writing Damian. He neither likes nor gets him. And I will never forgive him for comparing Damian to Adolf Hitler.
I hope that since Talia switched from being a main character in the original Checkmate story Bendis had planned to guest star in this new version that Damian's involvement in this has gotten smaller too.

----------


## Astralabius

> Yeah, I am a little worried about how Damian will be depicted after how much of a stinker Event Levithan turned out to be. No more, not now that Damian finally has a less-edgy direction!


I remember how absolutely dumb Damian's accusations against Jason were. Then again, Batman went along with them. Every "detective" in that book was an idiot.

I don't need more of that.

----------


## Astralabius

I guess I'm slightly curious to see how he plans to explain that Damian is in Checkmate in the first place.
Unless it takes place in the past or between Damian's meeting with Talia and Damian taking part in the League of Lazarus tournament that could be hard to explain.
Williamson said the tournament arc would be rather long, longer than six issues and I doubt Damian will be able to leave during the tournament. I also wouldn't be suprised if he wants to investigate this new unknown part of the League of Lazarus sooner rather than later.

----------


## Astralabius

Then again, Bendis is not known to care about continuity. Not even his own.

----------


## Fergus

> I guess I'm slightly curious to see how he plans to explain that Damian is in Checkmate in the first place.
> Unless it takes place in the past or between Damian's meeting with Talia and Damian taking part in the League of Lazarus tournament that could be hard to explain.
> Williamson said the tournament arc would be rather long, longer than six issues and I doubt Damian will be able to leave during the tournament. I also wouldn't be suprised if he wants to investigate this new unknown part of the League of Lazarus sooner rather than later.


It sounds like Robin is just one of many Guest characters not an actual member of the Spy group.

----------


## Astralabius

> It sounds like Robin is just one of many Guest characters not an actual member of the Spy group.


I know, I meant the book not the organization.
I just don't see how Damian could make even a meaningful guest appearance.
Why not just leave him out of this completely.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

Hey, everyone! Reminder that Challenge of the Super Sons is back!  :Big Grin:

----------


## Rac7d*

> Hey, everyone! Reminder that Challenge of the Super Sons is back!


We need a show

----------


## Blue22

> Hey, everyone! Reminder that Challenge of the Super Sons is back!


This issue was pure gold. Totally worth the wait. God, I just love how much fun I have whenever I read this series.

----------


## Frontier

> Hey, everyone! Reminder that Challenge of the Super Sons is back!


Comet, is that you?

----------


## Fergus

> This issue was pure gold. Totally worth the wait. God, I just love how much fun I have whenever I read this series.


 This series has been much better than the 2nd. I don't hear much buzz about it online. I hope fans are supporting it with their wallets and not taking it for granted.

I really want this to be a success, not just for the boys and their fans but for Tomasi. What happened to him? Is he writing anything for DC?

According to Walker they found out rather late that they were no longer on Tec which is a bad way to treat long standing writers.

----------


## Fergus

> Comet, is that you?


In prep for the Superpets movie.

----------


## Astralabius

> This series has been much better than the 2nd. I don't hear much buzz about it online. I hope fans are supporting it with their wallets and not taking it for granted.
> 
> I really want this to be a success, not just for the boys and their fans but for Tomasi. What happened to him? Is he writing anything for DC?
> 
> According to Walker they found out rather late that they were no longer on Tec which is a bad way to treat long standing writers.


I appreciate that they are on earth and are somewhat interacting with already established characters, even if they can't tell them why they are doing what they are doing.
I like Jon and Damian interacting with the established DC universe more than some space adventure.

I don't know if Tomasi is writing anything for DC right now. I think he mentioned an upcoming announcement for a project with Brad Walker, but it wasn't clear if it was for DC or not.

----------


## Morgoth

It's not for DC, Tomasi said that besides Super Sons he's not doing anything for them anytime soon.

----------


## Fergus

> So, it seems Bendis will write Damian again. Joy. At least he's just a guest.


Why does Bendis keep using Damian? I don't get it. Ai least his role is reduced.

----------


## Fergus

> It's not for DC, Tomasi said that besides Super Sons he's not doing anything for them anytime soon.


Which is a shame although WB did say ages ago that they were going to be replacing their writers with new blood and people from Animation. Which tracks looking at all the new writers they have on roster.

----------


## Astralabius

> Which is a shame although WB did say ages ago that they were going to be replacing their writers with new blood and people from Animation. Which tracks looking at all the new writers they have on roster.


It is a shame and it does look like it was DC's/WB's decision.
Even though I wouldn't have faulted Tomasi for having enough of DC.
He's one of the few writers interested in building something instead of tearing it apart (Death of the family was Snyder's idea and the reason the batfamily was broken, not Damian's death) and all DC does is cancel his books so the next writer can break everything he built and not replace it with anything better.
At least that's my impression.

----------


## Fergus

> It is a shame and it does look like it was DC's/WB's decision.
> Even though I wouldn't have faulted Tomasi for having enough of DC.
> He's one of the few writers interested in building something instead of tearing it apart (Death of the family was Snyder's idea and the reason the batfamily was broken, not Damian's death) and all DC does is cancel his books so the next writer can break everything he built and not replace it with anything better.
> At least that's my impression.


DC has screwed Tomasi too many times and I don't get it. The guy is a solid writer, has the sales and has created several beloved fanfav runs.


It just doesn't feel right the way things played out [according to Walker]

I hope he gets plenty of other offers

----------


## Astralabius

> Why does Bendis keep using Damian? I don't get it. Ai least his role is reduced.


I remember someone on this forum writing Bendis once said he feels like he's less restrained when writing Damian and can get away with certain things. I don't know there where they got it from though.

I don't agree with this take on Damian. Carelessness like this has lead to stories like Glass' Teen Titans run or Event Leviathan being as bad as they were. You can't just write Damian doing awful stuff like in Teen Titans and not bother to give him compelling and meaningful reasons for his actions.
That's where the take "Damian is evil and incapable of learning" comes from.

You can't just make Damian accuse Jason of being Leviathan because they "both wear red masks and Jason is sad because Roy died". That's dumb and with Bendis' record of writing Damian feels like he's intentionally trying depict him as a bad detective.

Oh, and comparing someone to Hitler? No. Just. No.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> It is a shame and it does look like it was DC's/WB's decision.
> Even though I wouldn't have faulted Tomasi for having enough of DC.
> He's one of the few writers interested in building something instead of tearing it apart (Death of the family was Snyder's idea and the reason the batfamily was broken, not Damian's death) and all DC does is cancel his books so the next writer can break everything he built and not replace it with anything better.
> At least that's my impression.


I think it was WB's decision to take Tomasi and Walker from Detective Comics, but Brad said they knew it and that's just how mainstream comics work. No creative team lasts forever, even though he said they would stay more in there if they could. 

But Tomasi not writing anything right now other than Super Sons I think is his own decision, tbh. It seems he will do a creator owned work now, which honestly you can't fault him for. Regarding DC, I do feel he was unsatisfied with some editorial decisions - like anyone that cares for Damian, including Joshua Williamson -, but I don't think DC would kick him out. It makes me really sad to don't see him in anything, but I respect his decisions as a creator.  :Frown:

----------


## Fergus

> I remember someone on this forum writing Bendis once said he feels like he's less restrained when writing Damian and can get away with certain things. I don't know there where they got it from though.
> 
> I don't agree with this take on Damian. Carelessness like this has lead to stories like Glass' Teen Titans run or Event Leviathan being as bad as they were. You can't just write Damian doing awful stuff like in Teen Titans and not bother to give him compelling and meaningful reasons for his actions.
> That's where the take "Damian is evil and incapable of learning" comes from.
> 
> You can't just make Damian accuse Jason of being Leviathan because they "both wear red masks and Jason is sad because Roy died". That's dumb and with Bendis' record of writing Damian feels like he's intentionally trying depict him as a bad detective.
> 
> Oh, and comparing someone to Hitler? No. Just. No.


Around the time when bendis posted that tweet about damian being the 5th best Robin, He did mention the only pro to Damian being that he had less restraints. Which I took to mean Damian as a mouth piece for the author like we see Taylor do often Eg
 in Tec when Damian called Bruce out for collecting orphans and neglecting his kids.

Or in Injustice 2 where Damian calls Bruce out on his double standards and ego

Bendis hasn't don that ever with Damian though.

Agreed on the bad detective part. Bendis has Damian as part of the DCU detectives and then proceeds to write him being dumb. Just don't use him.

No Robin should be on that team

----------


## Darkspellmaster

Wonder if Marvel would be willing to let Tomasi write something like Young Avengers or Champions, or a new team for them. He seems to have a good handle on characters of a younger age and honestly they could use someone like him writing there. (At least they give writers time to wrap up their stories).

----------


## Astralabius

> Around the time when bendis posted that tweet about damian being the 5th best Robin, He did mention the only pro to Damian being that he had less restraints. Which I took to mean Damian as a mouth piece for the author like we see Taylor do often Eg
>  in Tec when Damian called Bruce out for collecting orphans and neglecting his kids.
> 
> Or in Injustice 2 where Damian calls Bruce out on his double standards and ego
> 
> Bendis hasn't don that ever with Damian though.
> 
> Agreed on the bad detective part. Bendis has Damian as part of the DCU detectives and then proceeds to write him being dumb. Just don't use him.
> 
> No Robin should be on that team


Ah, okay. I didn't know the context and his wording was pretty vague. Thanks for the clarification.

I hope DC's attempts at damage control after Teen Titans mean editorial will keep a closer look at what Bendis is doing with Damian in Checkmate.

----------


## Astralabius

> We need a show


I really don't understand why we don't have a super sons cartoon yet. It would be such an easy way to introduce kids to the DC universe.

----------


## Astralabius

I just realized that both Robin #1 and the Batman and Robin story with Bruce and Damian in Batman: Black and White #5 come out on April 27th. 
April will be a long month for me.

----------


## sifighter

I'm going to assume that since its Talia on the team, that the Robin on this team is Damian. Also if Oliver is forming his own secret team with Batman's son on it, that can't end well.

https://www.gamesradar.com/dcs-event...-indefinitely/

----------


## PowerPlay25

Is Talia still going to be in Checkmate?   I thought she was moving to other stories more related to the broader DCU?

Originally I know she was working with Checkmate to be released from Prison but last time we saw her, she was in a chic, hotel in Markovia.

----------


## sifighter

> Is Talia still going to be in Checkmate?   I thought she was moving to other stories more related to the broader DCU?
> 
> Originally I know she was working with Checkmate to be released from Prison but last time we saw her, she was in a chic, hotel in Markovia.


In fairness it might have played into Checkmate because I remember that Leviathan bought Markovia.

----------


## scary harpy

> I really don't understand why we don't have a super sons cartoon yet. It would be such an easy way to introduce kids to the DC universe.


Batwheels.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> I really don't understand why we don't have a super sons cartoon yet. It would be such an easy way to introduce kids to the DC universe.


I also think that's a no-brainer, so I hope they have plans for the future. I also believe it might be possible to get Jon and Damian animated in Young Justice, if it survives one or two more seasons. It's pretty much setted up.




> Is Talia still going to be in Checkmate?   I thought she was moving to other stories more related to the broader DCU?
> 
> Originally I know she was working with Checkmate to be released from Prison but last time we saw her, she was in a chic, hotel in Markovia.


She will be there, but I think that her role might have been reduced. I wonder if Checkmate will somehow influence Robin, or at least be mentioned somehow.

Besides, I think that initially Checkmate was supposed to have a big influence in the DCU and it was going to set things for 5G, so I also wonder how much was altered given recent events.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Damian is so annoying in Super Sons, I love Damian being a brat, but this is not being fun in the last editions, I like when he is also quite and make sarcastic/smart comments, but I don't think that is what is happening :/

----------


## Astralabius

> Batwheels.


Don't remind me T_T

----------


## Shen

I don't know why, but the only thing that kinda annoys me from Challenge of the Supersons is that Rora calls Jon Superman instead of Superboy. 

Otherwise, I love it - especially the Hawkgirl issue.

----------


## Blue22

> I don't know why, but the only thing that kinda annoys me from Challenge of the Supersons is that Rora calls Jon Superman instead of Superboy. 
> 
> Otherwise, I love it - especially the Hawkgirl issue.


That wouldn't bother me as much if it weren't for Jon's....current status

----------


## Morgoth

Robin #3

written by Joshua Williamson
art by Gleb Melnikov
cover by Gleb Melnikov
card stock variant cover by Francis
Manapul
ON SALE 6/22/2021
$3.99 US | 32 PAGES | FC | DC
card stock variant cover $4.99 US| FC | DC

It’s a beach party from hell! Robin’s mission to get to the heart of the League of Lazarus's inner workings has left him once again locked in combat with his fellow fighters, but never did Damian Wayne think it would lead to a beach-blanket cookout. What’s more dangerous than a life-or-death struggle for the all-or-nothing prize of immortality? Well, for Damian, it’s acting like a normal teenager for five minutes. And don’t miss the surprise confrontation with Damian’s number 1 competition, a mysterious fighter trained by the League of Shadows!

----------


## the1&onlyE.

I'm loving the covers!

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> Robin #3
> 
> written by Joshua Williamson
> art by Gleb Melnikov
> cover by Gleb Melnikov
> card stock variant cover by Francis
> Manapul
> ON SALE 6/22/2021
> $3.99 US | 32 PAGES | FC | DC
> ...


The solicitation is very... interesting, I guess. Really hard to understand what's going on, but it seems there's a lot happening. There's:
- a beach party?; 
- he's fighting people;
- he needs to act his age?; 
- confrontation with a big fighter.

No idea how this all fits together, but I really want to read it!

----------


## Morgoth

I hope this ''secret fighter'' is not Heretic. 
Oh, and this beach party sounds pretty funny.



> Robin’s mission to get to the heart of the League of Lazarus's


It still seems to be related to the Lazarus Pit for Alfred, to be honest. I have no idea what else could be the reason for all this. But I guess we might find out next week in second part of back-up.

----------


## Restingvoice

Damian's getting a beach episode

That nose isn't Heretic. It looks like an adult face too.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I don't know why, but the only thing that kinda annoys me from Challenge of the Supersons is that Rora calls Jon Superman instead of Superboy. 
> 
> Otherwise, I love it - especially the Hawkgirl issue.


I don't like how the story go to present-pass pass-present, would be better in a normal time, I think... I Still like the series and I will follow it ^-^

----------


## Astralabius

> I'm loving the covers!


Some people are speculating it might be Connor Hawke. Francis Manapul, who already did this variant cover for Robin:

EuCkRdSWgAg_HqF.jpeg.jpg

posted this on his Instagram last month:

Screenshot_20210319-072450_Instagram.jpg

----------


## CPSparkles

> *Damian's getting a beach episode*
> 
> That nose isn't Heretic. It looks like an adult face too.


Very Anime.

----------


## CPSparkles

> I'm loving the covers!


This stunning.

From the solicits it sounds like the creative team is having a blast. Hope it translates well.

----------


## CPSparkles

> I just realized that both Robin #1 and the Batman and Robin story with Bruce and Damian in Batman: Black and White #5 come out on April 27th. 
> April will be a long month for me.


Forgot about batman Black and White.
Thanks for the reminder.

----------


## Astralabius

> Forgot about batman Black and White.
> Thanks for the reminder.


I had forgotten about it too until I stumbled over a screenshot of the solicitation on my phone.
Then I checked the date it would come out and was slightly disappointed when I saw it comes out the same day as Robin #1.
Of course I'm grateful Damian will appear in a story in Black and White (did any other of Robin besides Maps even show up in Black and White?) and Damian having his own ongoing is amazing.
I just like it more when the stories I'm really looking forward to are not all coming out in the same week.

----------


## Astralabius

> The solicitation is very... interesting, I guess. Really hard to understand what's going on, but it seems there's a lot happening. There's:
> - a beach party?; 
> - he's fighting people;
> - he needs to act his age?; 
> - confrontation with a big fighter.
> 
> No idea how this all fits together, but I really want to read it!


Well, the confrontation with the mysterious fighter and him fighting people is definitely related to the tournament.

Not sure how the beach party fits into this, but Williamson said in an interview he would let the story breath a lot more than he did on Flash. So it's not going to be just fighting.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I hope this ''secret fighter'' is not Heretic. 
> Oh, and this beach party sounds pretty funny.
> 
> It still seems to be related to the Lazarus Pit for Alfred, to be honest. I have no idea what else could be the reason for all this. But I guess we might find out next week in second part of back-up.


Beach, Damian, and Alfred? *Tom King flashback*
From the posture doesn't look like Heretic. Some fans speculate it's Connor but the shadow looks like at the same age as Damian. How old is Connor btw?

----------


## Astralabius

> I'm loving the covers!


When I saw the second cover on that slide show on Newsarama I didn't even realize it belonged to the Robin book. I just assumed it was a weird Red Hood cover and kept looking for the Robin covers :Big Grin:

----------


## Astralabius

> Beach, Damian, and Alfred? *Tom King flashback*
> From the posture doesn't look like Heretic. Some fans speculate it's Connor but the shadow looks like at the same age as Damian. How old is Connor btw?


Lol. It's hard to be more useless than Bruce was in that arc, so Damian's beach adventure can only be better.

I really think it's Connor. At least on the variant cover. The green background, the spiky mask, the hood, the fact that it's by the same artist and he already did a variant for Robin. It just fits too well.

I don't know a lot about Connor, but from I read about him on a wiki this could be very cool. I think they have a lot in common, but also enough differences to make it interesting.

Connor was erased at some point, wasn't he? He could be any age DC needs him to be.

----------


## prepmaster

To be honest, i just feel like DC is not knowing what to do with Damian. "Is Damian a Bat or an Al Ghul?" is a story that has been done before. Batman now has too many underlings that now they send Damian away. This mini series wont matter much for Damian's character development if Damian is to return back to the Batfam.

----------


## Astralabius

> To be honest, i just feel like DC is not knowing what to do with Damian. "Is Damian a Bat or an Al Ghul?" is a story that has been done before. Batman now has too many underlings that now they send Damian away. This mini series wont matter much for Damian's character development if Damian is to return back to the Batfam.


Do any DC comics truly matter? When was the last time Bruce had meaningful character developement that wasn't ignored the minute the next writer took over.

As long as Williamson makes Damian a hero again and we'll get some cool fights, emotional character interactions and interesting relationships out of it I don't really care anymore.

Also, it's an ongoing, not a mini-series.

----------


## Morgoth

> To be honest, i just feel like DC is not knowing what to do with Damian. "Is Damian a Bat or an Al Ghul?" is a story that has been done before. Batman now has too many underlings that now they send Damian away. This mini series wont matter much for Damian's character development if Damian is to return back to the Batfam.


They want to make him a definite hero again, and against all odds left him as Robin, apparently with a plan to return him to the Bat-family in the end. So I would not say that now they do not know what to do with it. They do what most fans want the character to do.

----------


## Zaresh

The variant does look like a Red Hood silhouette. But it does fit that Connor-lookalike sneak peek. I would love if it's Connor. I'll love it absolutely. He was a cool guy.

----------


## prepmaster

> They want to make him a definite hero again, and against all odds left him as Robin, apparently with a plan to return him to the Bat-family in the end. So I would not say that now they do not know what to do with it. They do what most fans want the character to do.


They are basically doing the same story with Damian so if you are trying to tell me that they know what they are doing, i dont see that.

Talia has also been inconsitently potrayed in order to service either Batman's stories or Damian's stories. She went from someone who doesnt need Damian and has bunch of his clones to someone who would welcome Damian back?

----------


## Astralabius

> They are basically doing the same story with Damian so if you are trying to tell me that they know what they are doing, i dont see that.
> 
> Talia has also been inconsitently potrayed in order to service either Batman's stories or Damian's stories. She went from someone who doesnt need Damian and has bunch of his clones to someone who would welcome Damian back?


Yeah, comics are going in circles. Shocking revelation lol. How many "Will Batman finally snap and kill the Joker" arcs do we have by now?

Talia has been wanting Damian back ever since Morrison stopped writing her. That's not suprising.
And she's going to have her own story with the Totality. Williamson said she's more than Ra's daughter and more than Damian's mom and he wants her to play a bigger role in the DC universe again.
If Williamson keeps his word then I'm not worried.

----------


## prepmaster

> How many "Will Batman finally snap and kill the Joker" arcs do we have by now?


An in character Batman would not be pushed to kill the Joker since he knows thats exactly what the Joker wants from him to do. Even if he does that, he will feel immense guilt and probably hang up the cowl since he wont be able to justify the direct killing of a human being.

----------


## Astralabius

> An in character Batman would not be pushed to kill the Joker since he knows thats exactly what the Joker wants from him to do. Even if he does that, he will feel immense guilt and probably hangs up the cowl since he wont be able to justify the direct killing of a human being.


Not the point. I know Batman won't ever kill him in canon. My question was, how many arcs did we have where the question if Bruce will finally kill someone, most of the time the Joker, is the hook.
You're complaining that we already had this story for Damian before, even though a character I know you like has the exact same problem.

----------


## prepmaster

> You're complaining that we already had this story for Damian before, even though a character I know you like has the exact same problem.


Because "Is Batman gonna kill or not" comes way before "Is Damian gonna become a killer or not"

----------


## Fergus

> To be honest, i just feel like DC is not knowing what to do with Damian. "Is Damian a Bat or an Al Ghul?" is a story that has been done before. Batman now has too many underlings that now they send Damian away. This mini series wont matter much for Damian's character development if Damian is to return back to the Batfam.


It depends on how you view it. Change isn't easy so I expected Damian to falter.

----------


## Fergus

> Because "Is Batman gonna kill or not" comes way before "Is Damian gonna become a killer or not"


The is the hero going to go bad pre dates batman and isn't the only arc that get repeated for Batman. It happens in comics. Batman being one of the most gulity.

I see you going around trying to troll batfamily fans by going around calling them underlings .

Guys don't feed the troll any more

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> Beach, Damian, and Alfred? *Tom King flashback*
> From the posture doesn't look like Heretic. Some fans speculate it's Connor but the shadow looks like at the same age as Damian. How old is Connor btw?


Uggh, don't even mention _that_ event.

I also think it's Connor and to me at least he doesn't seem to be Damian's age? He seems tall. And I know next to nothing about Connor, but wasn't he an adult already before being erased? I guess the big question is how he's going to be now that he's coming back after, I think, ten years or so of limbo.




> The variant does look like a Red Hood silhouette. But it does fit that Connor-lookalike sneak peek. I would love if it's Connor. I'll love it absolutely. He was a cool guy.


I don't know anything about Connor, except that he was Oliver's son, had his own tournament story and was Green Arrow for a period of time. What was he like? I'm curious to know more about him.

----------


## Perfidiously

> I don't know anything about Connor, except that he was Oliver's son, had his own tournament story and was Green Arrow for a period of time. What was he like? I'm curious to know more about him.


Connor was raised by his mom, with his dad not knowing about his existence. He was an angry kid, but ended up joining an ashram to follow in Oliver's steps, and ended up being a great archer and a really great martial artist (like, Lady Shiva level). He's very zen, thoughtful, naive about the outside world, but can be funny too. 

If it is Connor, I would freak out. Damian and Connor are the two characters I've most wanted to spend time together for ages! 

Seriously, they're two multiracial sons of white billionaire Justice League members, who grew up with their mothers and had a complicated relationship with them, ended up idolizing their fathers, only for their initial meeting to go badly. Then, their father dies and they take up their father's cause and struggle with their legacy and hang out with their father's acquaintances, only to have their father come back to life, where they clash some but eventually form a strong bond together. Also, they're both vegetarian (or kinda in Damian's case, depends on the writer.) They'd be a lot of fun together!

----------


## prepmaster

> The is the hero going to go bad pre dates batman and isn't the only arc that get repeated for Batman. It happens in comics. Batman being one of the most gulity.
> 
> I see you going around trying to troll batfamily fans by going around calling them underlings .


Batman's moral struggles at least are way more compelling because its him believing in either killing would prevent more deaths of other innocents or killing would make him become the same thug that murdered his parents. Damian has the discipline, a desire to be with his parent but never a strong moral foundation. His morals are just what the writer wants them to be.

----------


## Zaresh

> Connor was raised by his mom, with his dad not knowing about his existence. He was an angry kid, but ended up joining an ashram to follow in Oliver's steps, and ended up being a great archer and a really great martial artist (like, Lady Shiva level). He's very zen, thoughtful, naive about the outside world, but can be funny too. 
> 
> If it is Connor, I would freak out. Damian and Connor are the two characters I've most wanted to spend time together for ages! 
> 
> Seriously, they're two multiracial sons of white billionaire Justice League members, who grew up with their mothers and had a complicated relationship with them, ended up idolizing their fathers, only for their initial meeting to go badly. Then, their father dies and they take up their father's cause and struggle with their legacy and hang out with their father's acquaintances, only to have their father come back to life, where they clash some but eventually form a strong bond together. Also, they're both vegetarian (or kinda in Damian's case, depends on the writer.) They'd be a lot of fun together!


To add on all that, that I agree to the T with, Connor, also, would make for an incredible dynamic with Damian for all those points stated.

I want this now. I want it.

Edit: About his age, I think he was... twenty, twenty and a few? But I guess they're aging him down a bunch of years.

----------


## Shen

> and a really great martial artist (like, *Lady Shiva level*).


Okay, I don't know much about Connor - practically nothing really, but he's THAT good? They've definitely nerfed him for this tournament, especially if Damian has a chance of winning. 

I'm stating the obvious here - Dami's a total badass and I know he'll get to her level someday, but there's no way the kid can box with someone around Lady Shiva's level just yet.

Unless he cheats, of course.

Now I'm hyped, I can't wait to see this confrontation.

----------


## Perfidiously

> Okay, I don't know much about Connor - practically nothing really, but he's THAT good? They've definitely nerfed him for this tournament, especially if Damian has a chance of winning.


From what I recall, Lady Shiva did beat him, but it was a decently close match! They probably either nerf him for this arc, or have him not be that serious about winning. It's possible he might just be deaged,  depending on how old Oliver is now I guess.

Either way, if this is true and not just wild speculation, I'm excited! And even if it doesn't pan out this series, hopefully Connor and Damian get to hang out sometime in the future.

----------


## Shen

Oh man, this line-up is looking epic! If it really is Conner, then he and Rose would be interesting fights for Damian. 

I especially miss Damian and Rose's interactions, they were gold. I can't wait to see who else might show up!

I'm really interested in Flatline, she's more intriguing to me than Djinn ever was.

----------


## Astralabius

Preview for Detective Comics #1034 includes a preview for Demon or Detective part two.

https://aiptcomics.com/2021/03/19/dc...e-comics-1034/

----------


## Light of Justice

> Preview for Detective Comics #1034 includes a preview for Demon or Detective part two.
> 
> https://aiptcomics.com/2021/03/19/dc...e-comics-1034/



[IMG]https://***********/aiptcomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/DTC_1034_Robin_backup-2.jpg?resize=768%2C1182&ssl=1[/IMG]

----------


## Blue22

Yeah. The Talia fakeout was so obvious, I'm actually kinda disappointed they even bothered with it.

----------


## Astralabius

> Yeah. The Talia fakeout was so obvious, I'm actually kinda disappointed they even bothered with it.


It establishes that Damian is back to not wanting to kill, but since DC made him cross the line only a few months ago there weren't any stakes either way this time.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Yeah. The Talia fakeout was so obvious, I'm actually kinda disappointed they even bothered with it.


Nah, for suspense. They had to leave a cliffhanger on the end so people will buy the next issue, like "OMG, will Damian kill that guy?". The question is why they still think that "to kill or not to kill" plot is a good and totally not overused cliffhanger for Damian's story.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> Connor was raised by his mom, with his dad not knowing about his existence. He was an angry kid, but ended up joining an ashram to follow in Oliver's steps, and ended up being a great archer and a really great martial artist (like, Lady Shiva level). He's very zen, thoughtful, naive about the outside world, but can be funny too. 
> 
> If it is Connor, I would freak out. Damian and Connor are the two characters I've most wanted to spend time together for ages! 
> 
> Seriously, they're two multiracial sons of white billionaire Justice League members, who grew up with their mothers and had a complicated relationship with them, ended up idolizing their fathers, only for their initial meeting to go badly. Then, their father dies and they take up their father's cause and struggle with their legacy and hang out with their father's acquaintances, only to have their father come back to life, where they clash some but eventually form a strong bond together. Also, they're both vegetarian (or kinda in Damian's case, depends on the writer.) They'd be a lot of fun together!


Man, they have so much in common it's crazy! Connor is definitely not someone I was expecting to show up in Robin, but that's the magic of comics. I'm curious to know how they he's going to come back, though, given that he disappeared for so long. I also hope he ends up as an alliance. 

I'm actually really excited to read Connor, Damian and Rose interacting, this seems like a killer cast. Can't waaait!  :Big Grin:  




> Yeah. The Talia fakeout was so obvious, I'm actually kinda disappointed they even bothered with it.


I was kind of afraid, to be honest lol. Anyway, this is a pretty tiring cliffhanger with Damian, but it was necessary to establish were his morals are at now. I'm glad Joshua made right choice.

----------


## Restingvoice

Someone on Twitter already said they character assassinated Damian again because the first image is Damian holding a sword over his pool of blood. Never underestimate social media gut reaction.

----------


## sifighter

So wait let me get this right...Damian is just left holding the sword, and Talia killed the guy? Am I correct in understanding that?

----------


## Shen

> So wait let me get this right...Damian is just left holding the sword, and Talia killed the guy? Am I correct in understanding that?


Yup. That's why when Talia states that he hesitated, he replies that he knew she could take care of herself - and that he was distracted. 

Pretty misleading with the sword, but that was just to add some drama.

----------


## sifighter

> Yup. That's why when Talia states that he hesitated, he replies that he knew she could take care of herself - and that he was distracted. 
> 
> Pretty misleading with the sword, but that was just to add some drama.


See that is misleading because I assumed that the sword is how he saved his mother and the knife was the one that Talia was held up with and she disarmed her captor...I need to go back and look.

Edit: okay went back looked, the Knife Talia has was the disarming thing, blood on the sword was a misdirect. I understand now.

----------


## Blue22

It definitely could have been a bit clearer. I had to look at it a few times to figure out what happened too lol

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Man, they have so much in common it's crazy! Connor is definitely not someone I was expecting to show up in Robin, but that's the magic of comics. I'm curious to know how they he's going to come back, though, given that he disappeared for so long. I also hope he ends up as an alliance. 
> 
> I'm actually really excited to read Connor, Damian and Rose interacting, this seems like a killer cast. Can't waaait!  
> 
> 
> 
> I was kind of afraid, to be honest lol. Anyway, this is a pretty tiring cliffhanger with Damian, but it was necessary to establish were his morals are at now. I'm glad Joshua made right choice.


Waiiit, what Connor? Super Boy Connor?
I agree Damian killing or not is not overused, this is a decision Damian needs to take all time, but I reallh wish someone could write a happy path for him

----------


## KrustyKid

> Waiiit, what Connor? Super Boy Connor?
> I agree Damian killing or not is not overused, this is a decision Damian needs to take all time, but I reallh wish someone could write a happy path for him


No, Green Arrow Connor Hawke

----------


## Astralabius

> See that is misleading because I assumed that the sword is how he saved his mother and the knife was the one that Talia was held up with and she disarmed her captor...I need to go back and look.
> 
> Edit: okay went back looked, the Knife Talia has was the disarming thing, blood on the sword was a misdirect. I understand now.


When I only saw the first page I was confused too because I was pretty sure they would reveal that Talia killed the guy. Second page and the dialogue cleared that up.
But even if Damian did kill him, sure I wouldn't have liked that they continued with that crap from Teen Titans, but it wouldn't have been that shocking either because, well, they already made him cross the line at the end of Teen Titans.

Cliffhangers that are supposed to make us wonder if Damian killed someone or not are overused, but this one also had no stakes since Damian currently has no character developement to lose.

I like what Williamson is telling us in interviews about Damian and his ideas for the Robin solo, but I hope he stays away from cliffhangers like this one in the future.

----------


## Restingvoice

Gleb revealed that he drew a fountain of blood when Talia killed the guy, but it didn't get pass the rating ^^ 
Ew95Xq_WYAQIAdg.jpg
This won't be in the book.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Gleb revealed that he drew a fountain of blood when Talia killed the guy, but it didn't get pass the rating ^^ 
> Attachment 107619
> This won't be in the book.


Interesting that they can show us Joker's skinned face and wore it upside-down, but not the fountain of blood. Well, it's fine I think, almost all readers know that Talia can and will do something like that on hostage situation, anyway.

----------


## Blue22

Ah. So Talia did kill him. Figured that's what happened but I'm glad that got cleared up.




> But even if Damian did kill him, sure I wouldn't have liked that they continued with that crap from Teen Titans, but it wouldn't have been that shocking either because, well, they already made him cross the line at the end of Teen Titans.


I wouldn't have been a big fan of him doing it. But it was for his mom (whether she deserves him or not) so I'd have given it a pass. I've always been alright with the idea of Damian and Jason not making a habit out of killing but being more willing than Bruce to do it in extreme situations. Like...you know...someone holding a knife up to a loved one's throat.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Interesting that they can show us Joker's skinned face and wore it upside-down, but not the fountain of blood. Well, it's fine I think, almost all readers know that Talia can and will do something like that on hostage situation, anyway.


That Detective Comics story and Death of The Family arc in Batman was rated T for Teen which is 16 and up. The current Detective Comics is 13+

----------


## Astralabius

> Ah. So Talia did kill him. Figured that's what happened but I'm glad that got cleared up.
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't have been a big fan of him doing it. But it was for his mom (whether she deserves him or not) so I'd have given it a pass. I've always been alright with the idea of Damian and Jason not making a habit out of killing but being more willing than Bruce to do it in extreme situations. Like...you know...someone holding a knife up to a loved one's throat.


Eh, after Damian killed Brother Blood last summer I feel like this would have just cemented that Damian kills regularly, even if it's not an emergency. DC is terrible when it comes to nuance for characters that are only supposed to kill under certain dire circumstances. That's why I don't want Damian to go in that direction. I have no faith in DC to not make him a villain.

But I was actually just talking about the quality of the cliffhanger and why I didn't think it worked all that well.
The resolution shows us what direction Williamson intends to push Damian in (not killing), which I support, but there wasn't really any suspense.
Suspense built on the question "Will Damian kill or not?" in the context of Damian having to choose between his two legacies only really works if Damian has been closely following one legacy up until that point if you ask me. But Damian has been neither here nor there since 2018. Everything he learned about why killing is wrong got thrown out the window with his last arc in Teen Titans, so this decision in Demon or Detective doesn't feel like a big decision with high stakes at all. The resolution shows us what direction Williamson wants for Damian, but it doesn't really feel like a huge turning point for the character.

Damian already killed in Teen Titans not too long ago. So it wouldn't have mattered that much if he did it again here.
Damian had seemingly decided not to kill in Detective Comics, but Tomasi didn't really adress it so it hardly counts as character developement.
Damian's reaction to Talia killing that guy is also neither supportive nor opposing judging by that preview.

Maybe it's just me, but if you're not planning on making a clear stance on whether Damian supports killing people or not then don't write a cliffhanger like this one.

----------


## Astralabius

Really enjoyed the second part of Demon or Detective, can't wait to read the ongoing.

----------


## PowerPlay25

I second that.  The Demon or Detective story actually managed to have me intrigued by the futures of both Damian and Talia.   

I think the Al Ghul's are so wonderfully twisted and complex.

Talia's sense of calm has always crossed the threshold to cold-blooded but I think a cold and ice-like love, is what she is capable of.

As destructive and tragic as their past is, it's clear Damian still cares deeply about his mother.   Sometimes I wonder if Damian (and Bruce for that matter) know what Nyssa did to Talia in DaTM.   

Can't wait to see what the future holds.

----------


## Shen

So CBR spoiled me for Tec #1034 as soon as I opened my eyes, but it's confirmed that Connor will participate, as well as Rose, Batman of Japan and China White.

https://www.cbr.com/infinite-frontie...*********/amp/

----------


## Jackalope89

> So CBR spoiled me for Tec #1034 as soon as I opened my eyes, but it's confirmed that Connor will participate, as well as Rose, Batman of Japan and China White.
> 
> https://www.cbr.com/infinite-frontie...*********/amp/


Huh. CBR censored their own link.

----------


## Shen

> Huh. CBR censored their own link.


Apparently so. It doesn't work, but I'm sure you've already seen the article pop up.

----------


## Fergus

> I second that.  The Demon or Detective story actually managed to have me intrigued by the futures of both Damian and Talia.   
> 
> I think the Al Ghul's are so wonderfully twisted and complex.
> 
> Talia's sense of calm has always crossed the threshold to cold-blooded but I think a *cold and ice-like love*, is what she is capable of.
> 
> As destructive and tragic as their past is, it's clear Damian still cares deeply about his mother.   Sometimes I wonder if Damian (and Bruce for that matter) know what Nyssa did to Talia in DaTM.   
> 
> Can't wait to see what the future holds.


Yep. I've always thought the same about Talia. She comes across as uncaring but she does in her way. 

With Bruce
With Damian she can was at times ruthless but that was also love. She's fiercely protective of him which was a joy to see in RSOB and DCeased.

I like how Williamson writes Talia. I think I like his Talia even more than Gleason's 

[though Bruce and Talia squabbling like a divorced couple in a custody battle while fighting side by side with Damian in RSOB was a joy]

Talia seems to have a few things going on in Infinite Frontier and I'm pumped. I like the character but she hasn't had much of a positive showing in the last years. Silencer looked promising at 1st but...

I'm looking forward to Robin even more with this Talia in play.

----------


## Shen

So, was anyone else banned for a bit or was it just me?

----------


## CPSparkles

Damian and Bruce from Batman Black and White #5 out April 27th

----------


## CPSparkles

> So, was anyone else banned for a bit or was it just me?


Because of the cbr censored link? I didn't notice any other bans.

----------


## Shen

> Because of the cbr censored link? I didn't notice any other bans.


Probably, though its a little weird to be banned for that.

----------


## Shen

> Damian and Bruce from Batman Black and White #5 out April 27th


They're... actually doing some father-son bonding! Holy crap that's a breath of fresh air.

----------


## CPSparkles

https://hikariyami1.tumblr.com

----------


## CPSparkles

> Probably, though its a little weird to be banned for that.


Seems unfair especially since it was their link and no harm was intended when it was posted on here.

----------


## CPSparkles

> They're... actually doing some father-son bonding! Holy crap that's a breath of fresh air.


I know right?! I can't wait to read this.

Hopefully this is the start of the Batfamily being and feeling like a family.

----------


## CPSparkles

https://itsmespicaa.tumblr.com

----------


## CPSparkles

More from Batman Black and White.
This time #4 which is out now





I wasn't even aware of this comic.

----------


## Astralabius

> They're... actually doing some father-son bonding! Holy crap that's a breath of fresh air.


It's probably part of the sting operation mentioned in the solicits, but it is nice to see them doing something together in an unusual setting.

----------


## Blue22

> Damian and Bruce from Batman Black and White #5 out April 27th


Jeez. That reminds me. When's the last time they've ever done any out of costume father/son bonding? That short fishing trip in Tomasi's Batman and Robin?




> https://hikariyami1.tumblr.com


Stuff like this never fails to make me smile. Long live my sons!




> https://64.media.tumblr.com/fc86544d6c896866c5189be492b212f6/9724504655660ced-19/s500x750/4b073ea9da7bde12773633649c64f447b3f122e9.png
> 
> 
> https://itsmespicaa.tumblr.com


With everything canon again, we really need more Damian/Steph interactions. Those two are the best lol

----------


## Astralabius

> Jeez. That reminds me. When's the last time they've ever done any out of costume father/son bonding? That short fishing trip in Tomasi's Batman and Robin?


Sounds about right.
In Robin: Son of Batman Bruce had amnesia and when he showed up at the end it was as Batman.
In Teen Titans, Batman and Detective Comics they only interacted as Batman and Robin. Bruce calling Damian for assistance in Gotham were basically the only times those two even met.

The only exceptions I can think of were some moments in Super Sons or Tomasi's Superman run when Clark, Bruce, Jon and Damian hung out to cut down a tree or to celebrate christmas.

But no moments where it was just the two of them spending time with each other out of costume. That part of their relationship is even more underdeveloped than their dynamic as Batman and Robin.

----------


## Astralabius

Oh wait, there was that one conversation in King's Batman run when Damian amd Dick followed Bruce as civilians and Bruce basically told him that none of them make him happy, only Selina does.
Good times -_-

----------


## Blue22

You know, it may have just been a small spot in the corner of the page but Damian making an appearance in the Nightwing #79 preview made me so incredibly happy.

"My brothers"

[cue tears of joy]




> Oh wait, there was that one conversation in King's Batman run when Damian amd Dick followed Bruce as civilians and Bruce basically told him that none of them make him happy, only Selina does.
> Good times -_-


We just...don't talk about the family's treatment in King's run -___-

----------


## Frontier

> Jeez. That reminds me. When's the last time they've ever done any out of costume father/son bonding? That short fishing trip in Tomasi's Batman and Robin?


We don't get a lot of downtime bonding these days.

----------


## Shen

Tec is out, and damn does it build some hype for the Robin series.

----------


## Astralabius

> We just...don't talk about the family's treatment in King's run -___-


I probably shouldn't. It's just that when something causes me to remember bullshit like King making Alfred say that Bruce didn't have a true smile on his face since his parents died and only on the day he thought he would marry Selina that smile came back, it makes me want to hit my face against a wall.
King really has an involuntary talent for making me despise characters.

This doesn't make me think batcat is a great ship, it just makes me hate Bruce.

King was really trying to tell us that events like the miracle of bringing his 10 year old son back from the dead didn't make Bruce happy.

----------


## Astralabius

> We don't get a lot of downtime bonding these days.


In part probably because we haven't seen a lot of Bruce in recent years. Just Batman.
And now that we get some more focus on Bruce as Bruce Damian has seperated from the family.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Oh wait, there was that one conversation in King's Batman run when Damian amd Dick followed Bruce as civilians and Bruce basically told him that none of them make him happy, only Selina does.
> Good times -_-


That scene was so bad. Bruce just stammered and spluttered before managing to utter a short sentence like an actor being fed lines. King's batman was the worst.

----------


## CPSparkles

> You know, it may have just been a small spot in the corner of the page but Damian making an appearance in the Nightwing #79 preview made me so incredibly happy.
> 
> "My brothers"
> 
> [cue tears of joy]
> 
> 
> 
> We just...don't talk about the family's treatment in King's run -___-


It baffles me that DC let characterisations like that go to print. When you stop and think about King's batman the guy is a horrible, abusive man child. He isn't a hero, isn't a father or a care taker. Just a horny child abuser with issues running around punching things . That run robbed Bruce of so much agency and goodness. 

That line from Alfred should never have been allowed.
Alfred is also done dirty in that run. 
Honestly King just massacred everyone especially batcat. The cherry being that it in the end everything of consequence that happened between the couple was due to Bane. What a waste and he's back again with Batcat. Lord knows what he'll do with SuperGirl.

----------


## CPSparkles

Robin#3



How old is Conner? The guy I remember was in his 20's

----------


## Shen

> That scene was so bad. Bruce just stammered and spluttered before managing to utter a short sentence like an actor being fed lines. King's batman was the worst.


I've read fanfiction with better writing than that mess. BatCat will always be one of my favorite ships (Below BruTalia, of course), but the way it overshadowed everything else just made the story feel empty. King's Batman is one I would like to forget ever happened.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Jeez. That reminds me. When's the last time they've ever done any out of costume father/son bonding? That short fishing trip in Tomasi's Batman and Robin?
> 
> 
> 
> Stuff like this never fails to make me smile. Long live my sons!
> 
> 
> 
> With everything canon again, we really need more Damian/Steph interactions. Those two are the best lol


Did Williamson say something about Steph in Robin or am just mistaken? You are right I hope we get some interactions.

----------


## Shen

> Robin#3
> 
> 
> 
> How old is Conner? The guy I remember was in his 20's


"What better way to take out a Robin, than with a Hawke." Damn, I can't wait for this! Conner looks like he might be around his mid 20's in the comic.

----------


## CPSparkles

> "What better way to take out a Robin, than with a Hawke." Damn, I can't wait for this! Conner looks like he might be around his mid 20's in the comic.


When I heard he was going to be a rival for Damian I figured that he might have been aged down.
*
"What better way to take down  Robin , than with a Hawke"* 
I like that

----------


## CPSparkles

I love Damian Punning because you know where he gets it from



Loving Challenge of the Supersons.

----------


## Shen

> I love Damian Punning because you know where he gets it from
> 
> 
> 
> Loving Challenge of the Supersons.


Wait till you see the latest chapter of Challenge of the Supersons - I heard that Damian takes shots at Jon's parents!

----------


## Astralabius

> Did Williamson say something about Steph in Robin or am just mistaken? You are right I hope we get some interactions.


I think he said she would have a small cameo in Robin #1, along with the other members of the batfamily.
But that doesn't mean they will meet. They are in Gotham and Damian will be on his way to the island. We know there won't be reunion between Dick and Damian in Robin #1 so I don't think he will visit them before he takes part in the Lazarus tournament.

Williamson also said in an interview that he wants Damian away from the batfamily for a bit.
He wants him to have his own story.

----------


## Astralabius

> It baffles me that DC let characterisations like that go to print. When you stop and think about King's batman the guy is a horrible, abusive man child. He isn't a hero, isn't a father or a care taker. Just a horny child abuser with issues running around punching things . That run robbed Bruce of so much agency and goodness. 
> 
> That line from Alfred should never have been allowed.
> Alfred is also done dirty in that run. 
> Honestly King just massacred everyone especially batcat. The cherry being that it in the end everything of consequence that happened between the couple was due to Bane. What a waste and he's back again with Batcat. Lord knows what he'll do with SuperGirl.


I was always waiting for that moment when King would turn around and tell us that he was writing Bruce so terribly on purpose and that Bruce would either face consequences for his behaviour or decide to become better, but that never happened.
Throwing Bruce and Selina together fixes everything!!! Somehow!!! Who needs proper character developement when you can throw another sex scene in there?

King threw every relationship Bruce had under the bus to elevate Selina and only made them worse.

I feel bad far Supergirl fans.

----------


## Astralabius

> "What better way to take out a Robin, than with a Hawke." Damn, I can't wait for this! Conner looks like he might be around his mid 20's in the comic.


Really excited for Damian to meet Connor. They have a lot in common that could be interesting to talk about.

What I'm not excited about is all the whining I'm already seeing online that always comes when Damian is set to fight someone in a comic.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Really excited for Damian to meet Connor. They have a lot in common that could be interesting to talk about.
> 
> What I'm not excited about is all the whining I'm already seeing online that always comes when Damian is set to fight someone in a comic.


Yeah, bracing myself for there to be some complaint's about power-levels and character's getting nerfed. I hope Williamson handles everyone well and within expectation. The problem is that DC doesn't have a lot of combatants within Damian's age range to make the tournament interesting and using Oc's as fodder isn't as engaging.

It's also not fair to drag characters out of limbo to get beaten, however Damian stands a good chance against even seasoned veteran's if he 

-does what Bats do. Cheat. Tim took Shiva and Bruce took Bane by cheating
-utilizes his vast knowledge and skillsets. 
-cunning. Damian used this against Lex and Amazo
-Strategy. Damian used strategy and prep to take down GG

----------


## CPSparkles

> Wait till you see the latest chapter of Challenge of the Supersons - I heard that Damian takes shots at Jon's parents!


OOf! Can't wait. Damian's deadpan sass is always fun to read and Tomasi knows how to strike the right balance so that it's funny, cutting but doesn't go too far.

----------


## Astralabius

> It baffles me that DC let characterisations like that go to print. When you stop and think about King's batman the guy is a horrible, abusive man child. He isn't a hero, isn't a father or a care taker. Just a horny child abuser with issues running around punching things . That run robbed Bruce of so much agency and goodness


I think it was that moment in Batman 79, when Bruce tells Selina that Alfred sent a signal and that he will now send Damian to enter Gotham, kicking off what we saw in Batman 77, and Bruce saying that he wished he could stay on island alone with Selina forever in the next panel.
That was the moment I really started to despise King's Bruce.
Bruce prioritizing the city over his family in Batman comics? Not a good thing, but something I can accept.
But in that moment Bruce sent Damian, his 13 year old child, to do his dirty work for him in Gotham, while Bruce talks about not wanting to go there to help Damian and save Gotham because he would rather abandon his family and make out with his girlfriend on an island for all eternity.
Because King wanted to write Selina reminding Bruce of his responsibilities to Gotham.

I lost so much respect for Batman in City of Bane.

----------


## CPSparkles

> I was always waiting for that moment when King would turn around and tell us that he was writing Bruce so terribly on purpose and that Bruce would either face consequences for his behaviour or decide to become better, but that never happened.
> Throwing Bruce and Selina together fixes everything!!! Somehow!!! Who needs proper character developement when you can throw another sex scene in there?
> 
> King threw every relationship Bruce had under the bus to elevate Selina and only made them worse.
> 
> I feel bad far Supergirl fans.


It's odd. Some fans keep saying that king's Batman was human and honest but he was a puppet. Manipulated by those around him so much for human Bruce.

King took a heavy hand to the pairing and ended up turning the relationship into a toxic one. 

At the very least, Kara won't be meowing  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Light of Justice

> Williamson also said in an interview that he wants Damian away from the batfamily for a bit.
> He wants him to have his own story.


Well, Damian is already away from Batfamily for more than a bit. I'm down for more Damian's own story.




> Yeah, bracing myself for there to be some complaint's about power-levels and character's getting nerfed. I hope Williamson handles everyone well and within expectation. The problem is that DC doesn't have a lot of combatants within Damian's age range to make the tournament interesting and using Oc's as fodder isn't as engaging.
> 
> It's also not fair to drag characters out of limbo to get beaten, however Damian stands a good chance against even seasoned veteran's if he 
> 
> -does what Bats do. Cheat. Tim took Shiva and Bruce took Bane by cheating
> -utilizes his vast knowledge and skillsets. 
> -cunning. Damian used this against Lex and Amazo
> -Strategy. Damian used strategy and prep to take down GG


Or Connor was brainwashed and can't fight like himself. After I read his profile, I don't think Connor is the type to willingly join the League of Lazarus, if that organization is anything like League of Assassin.

----------


## Astralabius

> Well, Damian is already away from Batfamily for more than a bit. I'm down for more Damian's own story.
> 
> 
> Or Connor was brainwashed and can't fight like himself. After I read his profile, I don't think Connor is the type to willingly join the League of Lazarus, if that organization is anything like League of Assassin.


He probably meant that Damian will stay on that island for the first arc and we shouldn't expect him showing up in any other batman related books or family members showing up in Damian's book in that time.

Yeah, I think he might be brainwashed too. From what I read Connor is not the guy to be part of the League of Shadows like he currently is.

----------


## Astralabius

> It's odd. Some fans keep saying that king's Batman was human and honest but he was a puppet. Manipulated by those around him so much for human Bruce.
> 
> King took a heavy hand to the pairing and ended up turning the relationship into a toxic one. 
> 
> At the very least, Kara won't be meowing


King's Batman didn't feel human to me. In one moment he could walk hundreds of miles through ice and snow or claim to have forseen all of Bane's ludicrous and convoluted plan, the next he's a whiny manchild who needs his girlfriend to tell him how to throw a batarang or to tell him that he should save Gotham.
King's Bruce was so obsessed with Catwoman that he ignored all the other things that should be important to Bruce or any other human being, things like friends and family.

----------


## Blue22

Yeah I don't know how many humans King interacts with, but Bruce was anything but that in his run. King's book did about as much for the humanization of Batman as Heroes in Crisis did for the erasure of stigmas surrounding mental illness. Both stories were completely counterproductive to their messages and, even after DC's gone out of its way to bury HiC as much as they can, Wally is STILL paying for it. And the whole Batfamily is still dealing with the loss of Alfred. Hell, they even retconned it into the reason Damian went on his little rebellious streak.

----------


## Fergus

King's Batman didn't feel human at all. He could barely string words together and didn't seem able to accomplish and thing without Selina. 


I recall someone [poster Dietrich I think] once commenting that rather than human, he was acting like a Robot or someone under the influence. Lo and Behold, he was been controlled by Bane and his acolytes.

He was also an incompetent hero. He purposely let Bane take the city because reasons  and was the reason for Alfred nonsensical suicide.

Hew can DC hasn't retconed that run? DC is trash. Batman is their Juggernut. One of comics most iconic characters and the meduim's [or at least 2nd] most lucrative Ip's. They should be more mindful how he is portrayed.

The Batman deserves more respect and better than how King treated him.

----------


## Astralabius

> Yeah I don't know how many humans King interacts with, but Bruce was anything but that in his run. King's book did about as much for the humanization of Batman as Heroes in Crisis did for the erasure of stigmas surrounding mental illness. Both stories were completely counterproductive to their messages and, even after DC's gone out of its way to bury HiC as much as they can, Wally is STILL paying for it. And the whole Batfamily is still dealing with the loss of Alfred. Hell, they even retconned it into the reason Damian went on his little rebellious streak.


That the family is still dealing with Alfred's death is not King's fault. In Batman #85 he had Bruce say to Alfred's grave that "the boys came over for dinner and were doing well"
You know, despite the fact that Dick was Ric, Jason and Damian had major beef with Bruce in their comics and Bruce's incompetence just lead to Damian living through a highly traumatic event and all of them losing the only person they could all agree on they loved.
Apparently Bruce having a girlfriend fixed that too.

I'm actually glad DC decided to prove that statement wrong. Alfred's death deserves to have a greater impact than "oh well, guess we should move on" and it's also a more compelling reason for Damian to go off the rails than "I'm mad at my dad for some reason and a random restaurant owner that I never talked about again got killed"
I'm not a fan of how Thompson wrote Damian at all, but I will admit that finally adressing that events like Ric, Jon being almost an adult and Alfred's death all had an impact on Damian is something I appreciated. Glass didn't do that.
Too bad it came way too late and Thompson tried to use Damian as a scapegoat for all the shit all the other Teen Titans did in the Glass run.

----------


## Astralabius

Did they publish the wrong issue of Challenge of the Super Sons today?
It's supposed to be chapter 10, but on the cover and the credit page it says 11. I don't think it's a typo because they wrote 11 at the top and at the bottom of the credits.

----------


## Frontier

> That the family is still dealing with Alfred's death is not King's fault. In Batman #85 he had Bruce say to Alfred's grave that "the boys came over for dinner and were doing well"
> You know, despite the fact that Dick was Ric, Jason and Damian had major beef with Bruce in their comics and Bruce's incompetence just lead to Damian living through a highly traumatic event and all of them losing the only person they could all agree on they loved.
> Apparently Bruce having a girlfriend fixed that too.
> 
> I'm actually glad DC decided to prove that statement wrong. Alfred's death deserves to have a greater impact than "oh well, guess we should move on" and it's also a more compelling reason for Damian to go off the rails than "I'm mad at my dad for some reason and a random restaurant owner that I never talked about again got killed"
> I'm not a fan of how Thompson wrote Damian at all, but I will admit that finally adressing that events like Ric, Jon being almost an adult and Alfred's death all had an impact on Damian is something I appreciated. Glass didn't do that.
> Too bad it came way too late and Thompson tried to use Damian as a scapegoat for all the shit all the other Teen Titans did in the Glass run.


Yeah, I mean, Damian had genuine issues but it did feel like he was going off the rails partially to make the other Titans look better by the end of that run.

----------


## Astralabius

> Yeah, I mean, Damian had genuine issues but it did feel like he was going off the rails partially to make the other Titans look better by the end of that run.


Damian absolutely did shitty things in Teen Titans. They did want to kick him out of the mantle in disgrace and make him a villain after all.
But acting like Damian had been the only one who did shady stuff and forced the others to participate was simply not true and made me even more angry.

----------


## Blue22

I think what really pissed me off was that Thompson had NIGHTWING, of all people, swoop in and "save" this team while acting like Damian was the only problem (you know...like EVERYONE was doing after Djinn left). 


Like...sir! Fuck them kids! Stop throwing your brother under the bus and go find him! You are literally the only person he'd probably listen to! Let the other Titans deal with the knock-offs!

----------


## adrikito

> Damian and Bruce from Batman Black and White #5 out April 27th


How interesting. I will like to see them together again




> Robin#3
> 
> 
> 
> How old is Conner? The guy I remember was in his 20's


I like the cover.

----------


## Astralabius

> I think what really pissed me off was that Thompson had NIGHTWING, of all people, swoop in and "save" this team while acting like Damian was the only problem (you know...like EVERYONE was doing after Djinn left). 
> 
> 
> Like...sir! Fuck them kids! Stop throwing your brother under the bus and go find him! You are literally the only person he'd probably listen to! Let the other Titans deal with the knock-offs!


That pissed me off too, but I wanted to throw this title in the garbage way before that.

I found all the reactions of the people Damian was supposed to be close to kinda disappointing.
Dick didn't seem too bothered and sided with the Teen Titans, Jon tried to find Damian but gave up disappointingly quick (remember when Damian was prepared to risk everything to protect Jon when future Tim Drake told everyone Jon would kill millions?) and we didn't even get to see what Damian wrote in that letter. Bruce seems to care somewhat, but not enough to prioritize getting Damian back and seems still more sad about Alfred's death than about losing his son.

A 13 year old child just went through a huge crisis and all these heroes just stand around and do nothing. It's all so underwhelming.

----------


## Astralabius

I was also kinda disappointed that when Bruce finally got off his ass and started searching for Damian he failed to reflect on his own actions and how he contributed to Damian breaking away from him.

Tomasi also wrote Bruce only really thinking about Damian leaving the Robin mantle and how it might be possible to get Damian to return to that role.
Like, dude, fuck being Batman and Robin, this is YOUR SON. Focus on getting your kid back and rebuilding your relationship as father and child first, not as hero and sidekick.

----------


## Astralabius

> I also predict the return of Injustice Damian, dick and Damian getting a reunion curtesy of Taylor.
> 
> I don't see an ongoing. Don't think anyone in the Batfamily is getting one aside from Dick [lets face it Dick and Babs are the only ones who've managed to carry a solo since rebirth]


But Robin is a confirmed ongoing.

----------


## Hypo

Believe this is for the DC Festival of Heroes: The Asian Superhero Celebration one-shot:

https://twitter.com/juni_ba/status/1376638774088757254

----------


## Blue22

> Believe this is for the DC Festival of Heroes: The Asian Superhero Celebration one-shot:
> 
> https://twitter.com/juni_ba/status/1376638774088757254


So glad they're including Damian in this.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I was also kinda disappointed that when Bruce finally got off his ass and started searching for Damian he failed to reflect on his own actions and how he contributed to Damian breaking away from him.
> 
> Tomasi also wrote Bruce only really thinking about Damian leaving the Robin mantle and how it might be possible to get Damian to return to that role.
> Like, dude, fuck being Batman and Robin, this is YOUR SON. Focus on getting your kid back and rebuilding your relationship as father and child first, not as hero and sidekick.


I love Tomasi, but I had to admit that Bruce and Damian arc on Tec is completely pointless. Like, if you read Demon or Detective after Teen Titans annual 2 and skip Tomasi's story, you will not miss anything. The story only shows that apparently Bruce cares for Damian, then gave Damian green light to go off on his own?? I feel like Tomasi desperately wants to save Damian and Bruce's relationship, but other writers and upcoming arc have a different idea.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Believe this is for the DC Festival of Heroes: The Asian Superhero Celebration one-shot:
> 
> https://twitter.com/juni_ba/status/1376638774088757254


Is that corn on his mouth or he cosplayed as Nezuko? XD

----------


## Astralabius

> Believe this is for the DC Festival of Heroes: The Asian Superhero Celebration one-shot:
> 
> https://twitter.com/juni_ba/status/1376638774088757254


Eating corn and texting on his phone while swinging through the air, Damian is living dangerously.

Looks cute

----------


## Astralabius

> I love Tomasi, but I had to admit that Bruce and Damian arc on Tec is completely pointless. Like, if you read Demon or Detective after Teen Titans annual 2 and skip Tomasi's story, you will not miss anything. The story only shows that apparently Bruce cares for Damian, then gave Damian green light to go off on his own?? I feel like Tomasi desperately wants to save Damian and Bruce's relationship, but other writers and upcoming arc have a different idea.


We know from Joshua Williamson that he pitched Robin in August and I know that during that time the script for the first few issues of Tomasi's last arc must have been done, since the artists were already posting wips for those issues. I'm also pretty sure that introducing and developing Nakano was mandated by editorial for Future State and Tamaki's run and not something Tomasi came up with on his own.
So Tomasi certainly didn't have the freedom he probably would have wanted for this arc and DC might not have known themselves where they wanted this to go yet. But that doesn't change the fact that I didn't really get what I hoped for. 

I didn't start reading the arc expecting for Damian to go back to being Robin or to reconcile with Bruce. I'm not disappointed because of that. 

What I did want was to see how Bruce was feeling after the second Teen Titans annual. So I open the first issue of the arc I know will deal with what happened with Damian and instead of Bruce telling us how he feels about what went down I see him thinking about moving, thinking about how much he misses Alfred, about Nakano and the anti vigilante movement...and yeah I don't mind that, but it's not the main reason I bought the issue.
Bruce doesn't waste a single thought on Damian until he notices that the black casebook was stolen from him on the last two pages and for me that was a really disappointing beginning to that arc.
Because no matter what would come after, this first issue that was supposed to set the tone for the entire arc showed me that Bruce cared about so many things more than about Damian and that Damian had to force himself back into Bruce's mind by disrupting his work. 

The second issue having Bruce blame everything on Damian's character and age didn't sit well with me either. The issue also revealed to us that Bruce had done nothing after the annual because for some reason he believed Damian would come back to him if he just waited long enough...after doing nothing and waiting for Damian to return back to normal had lead to what happened in Teen Titans.
Bruce still wasn't searching for Damian, he was going to a meeting with the rest of the family to talk about the protests.
It's there that Bruce tells the others about Damian and their reaction is kinda underwhelming. Seriously, nobody even noticed the kid was gone? Nobody is concerned? Oh and then Duke just changed the topic again. Great. 

It's only in the third issue that we finally see Bruce searching for Damian and even that is put on pause because Bruce wants to keep an eye on a mob. Despite Barbara and Dick telling him they have it under control and Bruce himself saying that if he doesn't follow Damian's trail now he might not find another one for weeks. I hope it was Tomasi's intention to make me feel like Bruce wasn't putting his a game into finding Damian because that's the feeling I got while reading it. 

The confrontation between them in the fourth issue was disappointing because I didn't learn anything I didn't already know from Teen Titans or previous issues of Detective Comics. Bruce's declaration of love was better in Teen Titans where it wasn't followed by an "but sometimes I truly don't like you because of the choices you make"
The part where they learn about Hush kidnapping the family and Damian decides to help Bruce to free them was skipped and I was disappointed by that because the rest of the issue was kinda boring and it would have been interesting to see Damian's reaction. 

The last issue had some nice callbacks to Tomasi's Batman and Robin run, but all I could think about was how long ago that was, both in our time and in theirs. Great Bruce, you cared about him when he was ten. What about now? Why did you let this happen?
Their last conversation was weird too. I didn't really understand how they came from one topic to another, Bruce saying that he doesn't blame Damian for Alfred's death contradicts what he said in Batman (and an apology for not being there for Damian after Alfred's death would have been more appropriate) and then he suddenly wants to give the R back to Damian. 

To be fair, Damian rejects the R and doesn't go back to Bruce, which is the only logical outcome after Bruce failed to put any real effort into getting him back after TT and failed to say or do anything that would change Damian's mind in that arc. 

And then Bruce goes home, packs his last boxes, thinks about Alfred some more and...sets off for new shores.
Not sure if your underage son leaving you is something you should just put behind you. 

The arc did have some nice moments, I really liked Damian solving the case, but overall it was a really weird arc.

----------


## Astralabius

Sorry about that really long post, but I had a lot of thoughts when I read that arc.

----------


## Astralabius

Williamson had Damian talk about how he escaped from Bruce in Demon or Detective and in an interview with Bat Force Radio Williamson talked about how Damian is secretly on the run from Batman, which is also why he didn't chose any characters with ties to Batman to take part in the tournament arc because they would call Bruce and tell him where Damian is.

When it was just Damian talking about how he "escaped" I thought it might just be Damian trying to make himself feel better, but after listening to that interview I wonder if Williamson is serious about this.
Of course he could write Bruce looking for Damian in Robin, we know Bruce and the rest of the family make an appearance in Damian's book in Robin #1.
But if we're just looking at what has already happened then Damian didn't escape. Bruce let him go. He let him go after No Justice, he let him go in Pennyworth RIP, he let him go at the end of the second Teen Titans annual and he let him go at the end of Tomasi's Tec run.
So if Williamson wants to make this a story where Damian tries to hide from Batman he needs to establish Bruce looking for him first.

----------


## Digifiend

> I think what really pissed me off was that Thompson had NIGHTWING, of all people, swoop in and "save" this team while acting like Damian was the only problem (you know...like EVERYONE was doing after Djinn left). 
> 
> 
> Like...sir! Fuck them kids! Stop throwing your brother under the bus and go find him! You are literally the only person he'd probably listen to! Let the other Titans deal with the knock-offs!


That was a mandate to set up Teen Titans Academy. So blame Sheridan, not Thompson.




> Did they publish the wrong issue of Challenge of the Super Sons today?
> It's supposed to be chapter 10, but on the cover and the credit page it says 11. I don't think it's a typo because they wrote 11 at the top and at the bottom of the credits.


Which JLAer are they rescuing? Does it match what was said at the end of the previous issue? If not, yes, they printed the wrong one. But if so, the number is a typo.

----------


## adrikito

> Believe this is for the DC Festival of Heroes: The Asian Superhero Celebration one-shot:
> 
> https://twitter.com/juni_ba/status/1376638774088757254


I like it..

----------


## sifighter

> Eating corn and texting on his phone while swinging through the air, Damian is living dangerously.
> 
> Looks cute


Yeah thats how you get into an accident by crashing into our swinging or flying heroes.

Never text and swing

----------


## Astralabius

> That was a mandate to set up Teen Titans Academy. So blame Sheridan, not Thompson.


That the Titans are helping the Teen Titans was definitely for Sheridan, but the words he made Dick say were Thompson's.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I think Damian-Dick now is a little like Tim-Dick when Tim discovered Bruce is lost in pass and no one believes and Dick is like "you are crazy, I will put you on Arkaham", broke the idea of Dick being this big brother we all love. (I remember someone here told about it happening with Dick-Jason, but I didn't really read it).

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Anyway, I thing family, friendship and love works like this, he can give up of his brother for take care of job, romantic relationship, another brother, a child, even knowing he is needed, he changes the focus and this is it?

----------


## Zaresh

> I think Damian-Dick now is a little like Tim-Dick when Tim discovered Bruce is lost in pass and no one believes and Dick is like "you are crazy, I will put you on Arkaham", broke the idea of Dick being this big brother we all love. (I remember someone here told about it happening with Dick-Jason, but I didn't really read it).


As far as I recall, Dick never said that Tim had to be put in Arkham. He just implied that Tim was in severe denial about the whole thing with Bruce and he needed help, psychological, help, maybe, because he had lost a lot of friends by then. Dick wasn't especially nice or sensible, he came across a bit too condescending and patronizing, if I recall right. But nothing like some fanfiction and some headcanons imply or tell.

Dick did put Jason in Arkham, Bruce let him there too when he came back, if I recall. Apparently they thought he would be safer in there than in Blackgate (nonsense, but whatever). Joker wasn't there when Jason was, despite, again, some fan depictions of his time there.

----------


## Restingvoice

I don't know if it's been posted here but in Detective Comics, Bruce's phone wallpaper is the family's portrait sitting from way back in New 52 Batman and Robin, with Jason added at the back, and Damian moved to the center. Peeps on tumblr said Bruce Photoshop it because the screen isn't wide enough.

----------


## Fergus

> As far as I recall, Dick never said that Tim had to be put in Arkham. He just implied that Tim was in severe denial about the whole thing with Bruce and he needed help, psychological, help, maybe, because he had lost a lot of friends by then. Dick wasn't especially nice or sensible, he came across a bit too condescending and patronizing, if I recall right. But nothing like some fanfiction and some headcanons imply or tell.
> 
> Dick did put Jason in Arkham, Bruce let him there too when he came back, if I recall. Apparently they thought he would be safer in there than in Blackgate (nonsense, but whatever). Joker wasn't there when Jason was, despite, again, some fan depictions of his time there.


 Dick was sensible in how he handled Tim since Tim had no proof and had nothing to back up his claims.

he was respectful and even tried to be understanding with Tim.

Jason threatened to expose 10 yr old Damian's nudity to the whole of Gotham and was acting very disturbed since he returned and in BFTC. Dick was right to put him in an Asylum not a regular prison.

----------


## Fergus

> Anyway, I thing family, friendship and love works like this, he can give up of his brother for take care of job, romantic relationship, another brother, a child, even knowing he is needed, he changes the focus and this is it?


Dick isn't Damian's father. Damian isn't his responsibility and Dick has his own problems to take care of. No-one should be expecting him to be looking out for Damian.

----------


## Fergus

> I think Damian-Dick now is a little like Tim-Dick when Tim discovered Bruce is lost in pass and no one believes and Dick is like "you are crazy, I will put you on Arkaham", broke the idea of Dick being this big brother we all love. (I remember someone here told about it happening with Dick-Jason, but I didn't really read it).


Not sure what comics you've been reading but Tim never discovered that Bruce was lost in Time [that was Dick]

Dick never said that Tim was Crazy
Dick never said that he'd put Tim in Arkham.
Tim didn't know that Bruce was lost in time
Tim didn't discover that Bruce was lost in time. That was Dick [Alfred also solved some of the initial clues]
Where are you getting all this? None of this ever happened.

Tim believed bruce wasn't dead. when asked why he had no clue and he was acting out and being immature even attacking damian and rejecting his father's name.

----------


## Fergus

> Believe this is for the DC Festival of Heroes: The Asian Superhero Celebration one-shot:
> 
> https://twitter.com/juni_ba/status/1376638774088757254


Now I want some corn.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Not sure what comics you've been reading but Tim never discovered that Bruce was lost in Time [that was Dick]
> 
> Dick never said that Tim was Crazy
> Dick never said that he'd put Tim in Arkham.
> Tim didn't know that Bruce was lost in time
> Tim didn't discover that Bruce was lost in time. That was Dick [Alfred also solved some of the initial clues]
> Where are you getting all this? None of this ever happened.
> 
> Tim believed bruce wasn't dead. when asked why he had no clue and he was acting out and being immature even attacking damian and rejecting his father's name.


I didn't read Tim's stories because he is not inside my favorite characters, I just red what appears in Batman and Robin, I red Red Robin (muuch time ago, I need references) and asked a Tim's fan about his story (also for get reference), maybe this person exaggerated a little and made Dick a big Villain and Tim too much smart?
About Tim discovering Bruce was lost in time I thought they do this while Tim do this, I think Dick said "Tim was right, Bruce is not dead, he is lost in time" when they found Bruce in the old portrait... actually, I do believe Tim knew this before, I remember he noticing Bruce was not dead because a portrait, but he could not prove...
Sorry for so many mistakes ><

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Dick isn't Damian's father. Damian isn't his responsibility and Dick has his own problems to take care of. No-one should be expecting him to be looking out for Damian.


Agree, just like real life, but still hurts... just like in real life.

----------


## Fergus

> I didn't read Tim's stories because he is not inside my favorite characters, I just red what appears in Batman and Robin, I red Red Robin (muuch time ago, I need references) and asked a Tim's fan about his story (also for get reference), maybe this person exaggerated a little and made Dick a big Villain and Tim too much smart?
> About Tim discovering Bruce was lost in time I thought they do this while Tim do this, I think Dick said "Tim was right, Bruce is not dead, he is lost in time" when they found Bruce in the old portrait... actually, I do believe Tim knew this before, I remember he noticing Bruce was not dead because a portrait, but he could not prove...
> Sorry for so many mistakes ><


Yeah I think the Tim fan exaggerated the details and must have made some things up.
Tim didn't know Bruce was lost in time, Dick never said Tim was crazy and he never wanted or said he'd put Tim in arkham. those are all lies.

They found out Bruce wasn't dead when they found out his corpse was faked. they tried to bring Bruce back with the pits but it turned out to be a fake corpse.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Yeah I think the Tim fan exaggerated the details and must have made some things up.
> Tim didn't know Bruce was lost in time, Dick never said Tim was crazy and he never wanted or said he'd put Tim in arkham. those are all lies.
> 
> They found out Bruce wasn't dead when they found out his corpse was faked. they tried to bring Bruce back with the pits but it turned out to be a fake corpse.


I remember that part, so Tim was right just for lucky?

----------


## Light of Justice

> I remember that part, so Tim was right just for lucky?


Well, I don't really know the detail myself so I just copy-paste Tim fans' answer about Tim's role in finding Bruce.


this panel (red robin issue 12 present-day) shows that Alfred and Dick already knew. (meaning they had already found evidence of Bruce's survival while Tim was in Europe.)


the second picture is from the return of Bruce Wayne (by Grant Morrison) where Morrison directly references the bat symbol Tim found in Europe.

all Issue 12 adds is Tim finding the picture of Mordecai Wayne right after he was fired from being robin. this is how Tim knew Bruce was stranded in time.

I think Tim indeed is the one who found the evidence that Bruce is still alive first, but it's not fair to belittle Dick for it, even creating false info that Dick wanted to throw Tim into Arkham. Dick is the eldest, and as the eldest, he has responsibilities to handle everything that Bruce left behind (including 10 years old murderous son) to move forward. He has no time to investigate thing that based on vague proof.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Well, I don't really know the detail myself so I just copy-paste Tim fans' answer about Tim's role in finding Bruce.
> 
> 
> this panel (red robin issue 12 present-day) shows that Alfred and Dick already knew. (meaning they had already found evidence of Bruce's survival while Tim was in Europe.)
> 
> 
> the second picture is from the return of Bruce Wayne (by Grant Morrison) where Morrison directly references the bat symbol Tim found in Europe.
> 
> all Issue 12 adds is Tim finding the picture of Mordecai Wayne right after he was fired from being robin. this is how Tim knew Bruce was stranded in time.
> ...


Now I got it, I didn't read nothing of the Return of Bruce Wayne.
But I still felt like Dick was little "Whatever" with Tim, I know he already had too much for deal, but Tim was 17? And lost Friends, Bruce, Robin cowl...

----------


## Light of Justice

> Now I got it, I didn't read nothing of the Return of Bruce Wayne.
> But I still felt like Dick was little "Whatever" with Tim, I know he already had too much for deal, but Tim was 17? And lost Friends, Bruce, Robin cowl...


The problem is, Dick didn't ignore Tim at all. Yes, he didn't believe Tim's theory before he showed him undeniable proof. Who doesn't? Dick has so many matters to handle so something vague like that naturally will be his last priority. Yes, he gave Robin title to Damian, but he already gave Tim his reason. Tim is Bruce's Robin, and Dick saw him as equal. Robin is and should be a sidekick under Batman's tutelage. You can't tutor your equal.

But he still included Tim in every family event. He still helped Tim on Red Robin immediately after Tim asked him. Dick just trusts Tim more than Damian so he paid more attention to Damian, and that's the right choice. I mean, give him a break, he was just 23(?) himself. Bruce's responsibilities on JL? Dick handled it. Wayne corporation? Damian helped him but Dick was still the one that got called, like on Hush's problem. All Bruce's contact and allies? Dick handled it. Bruce's asset, even problems like literal airhead past "girlfriend"? Dick handled it. 

This is why I don't like Dick as a surrogate father narrative. When fandom already resigned by the fact that Bruce is a bad parent, they always expect Dick to fix everything. Tim was lonely and depressed? Fuck his responsibilities, Dick should be on his side all the time and support him on everything! Jason went crazy and killed everyone? He can't send him to Arkham's therapists, Dick should be the one who heals him with the power of love and family! Damian's recent extreme method? Dick should take Damian as his sidekick and understand his actions!

Enough, Dick is not a free babysitter. Every time Robins have their own problems, Dick is not obliged to coddle them just because Bruce is failed as a parent.

----------


## Drako

> Now I got it, I didn't read nothing of the Return of Bruce Wayne.
> But I still felt like Dick was little "Whatever" with Tim, I know he already had too much for deal, but Tim was 17? And lost Friends, Bruce, Robin cowl...


He was not "whatever" with Tim. The first arc of Red Robin is Tim being all dark and pushing his friends away. Dick tried to help him, since Tim was going through a lot, but he declined and start to fight Grayson.



The next page after that Dick hold Tim's arm and Red Robin starting the fight. 
Drake didn't want any help from his friends and went to the Al Ghuls to find his answers about Bruce.

----------


## Zaresh

*@Rebeca Armus*, my advise: go read the comics. All of us have our bias towards the characters. Some have some very strong opinions, even. And no one can read a page the very same way than another one can: we all get different things from the same panels and ballons. The best thing to do is read these books and come to your own conclusions and opinions. They're not hard to find, they have been collected and I think they may even have digital editions by now (not sure, pure guessing). Maybe Red Robin is harder to find, but Morrison's Batman time is easy to find in libraries of half this side of the world (the american and european side, I mean), in case you cannot purchase or ask someone to lend then to you.

(Also, Damian's thread may not be the best place to ask about Tim specifically, to be honest)

----------


## Astralabius

Bruce has a family picture to brood over for every occasion.

----------


## Drako

Robin #01 preview:

https://www.gamesradar.com/damian-wa...bin-1-preview/

----------


## Jackalope89

> The problem is, Dick didn't ignore Tim at all. Yes, he didn't believe Tim's theory before he showed him undeniable proof. Who doesn't? Dick has so many matters to handle so something vague like that naturally will be his last priority. Yes, he gave Robin title to Damian, but he already gave Tim his reason. Tim is Bruce's Robin, and Dick saw him as equal. Robin is and should be a sidekick under Batman's tutelage. You can't tutor your equal.
> 
> But he still included Tim in every family event. He still helped Tim on Red Robin immediately after Tim asked him. Dick just trusts Tim more than Damian so he paid more attention to Damian, and that's the right choice. I mean, give him a break, he was just 23(?) himself. Bruce's responsibilities on JL? Dick handled it. Wayne corporation? Damian helped him but Dick was still the one that got called, like on Hush's problem. All Bruce's contact and allies? Dick handled it. Bruce's asset, even problems like literal airhead past "girlfriend"? Dick handled it. 
> 
> This is why I don't like Dick as a surrogate father narrative. When fandom already resigned by the fact that Bruce is a bad parent, they always expect Dick to fix everything. Tim was lonely and depressed? Fuck his responsibilities, Dick should be on his side all the time and support him on everything! Jason went crazy and killed everyone? He can't send him to Arkham's therapists, Dick should be the one who heals him with the power of love and family! Damian's recent extreme method? Dick should take Damian as his sidekick and understand his actions!
> 
> Enough, Dick is not a free babysitter. Every time Robins have their own problems, Dick is not obliged to coddle them just because Bruce is failed as a parent.


I'm not saying Dick should be the "makes everything better" person, just that Arkham has an awful track record when it comes to, well, everything.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> *@Rebeca Armus*, my advise: go read the comics. All of us have our bias towards the characters. Some have some very strong opinions, even. And no one can read a page the very same way than another one can: we all get different things from the same panels and ballons. The best thing to do is read these books and come to your own conclusions and opinions. They're not hard to find, they have been collected and I think they may even have digital editions by now (not sure, pure guessing). Maybe Red Robin is harder to find, but Morrison's Batman time is easy to find in libraries of half this side of the world (the american and european side, I mean), in case you cannot purchase or ask someone to lend then to you.
> 
> (Also, Damian's thread may not be the best place to ask about Tim specifically, to be honest)


I write comic strips about Damian and Batfamily, so I really will not look for Tim's comics, =_=, it's just something that help me with my anxiety and I need Tim showing up sometimes, but I will not comment about comics I didn't read anymore >< I made so many mistakes '^^)/ sorry sorry sorry
(Unless the thing about Bruce lost in the past, I read RR but can't remember it very well, memories.... =__=)/)

Ah, I also though I was going to see Tim drinking coffee all the time, but it's just a Fandom thing... I remember I also thought Jon and Conner had a brother ship relationship because the fanarts, and someone here told me they never saw it other before! Disappoint U_u)/

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> The problem is, Dick didn't ignore Tim at all. Yes, he didn't believe Tim's theory before he showed him undeniable proof. Who doesn't? Dick has so many matters to handle so something vague like that naturally will be his last priority. Yes, he gave Robin title to Damian, but he already gave Tim his reason. Tim is Bruce's Robin, and Dick saw him as equal. Robin is and should be a sidekick under Batman's tutelage. You can't tutor your equal.
> 
> But he still included Tim in every family event. He still helped Tim on Red Robin immediately after Tim asked him. Dick just trusts Tim more than Damian so he paid more attention to Damian, and that's the right choice. I mean, give him a break, he was just 23(?) himself. Bruce's responsibilities on JL? Dick handled it. Wayne corporation? Damian helped him but Dick was still the one that got called, like on Hush's problem. All Bruce's contact and allies? Dick handled it. Bruce's asset, even problems like literal airhead past "girlfriend"? Dick handled it. 
> 
> This is why I don't like Dick as a surrogate father narrative. When fandom already resigned by the fact that Bruce is a bad parent, they always expect Dick to fix everything. Tim was lonely and depressed? Fuck his responsibilities, Dick should be on his side all the time and support him on everything! Jason went crazy and killed everyone? He can't send him to Arkham's therapists, Dick should be the one who heals him with the power of love and family! Damian's recent extreme method? Dick should take Damian as his sidekick and understand his actions!
> 
> Enough, Dick is not a free babysitter. Every time Robins have their own problems, Dick is not obliged to coddle them just because Bruce is failed as a parent.


Poor Dick >< I agree.
I think it's because Dick is the only character that will try make things better, I actually don't expect anyone of Batfamily taking care of each other feelings unless Dick, (maybe also Barbara), so when Dick doesn't, it's kind a lost cause.
I like the idea of Dick being this amazing brother and a father figure for Damian, but I get he can't live for other persons.
I also ending remembering Little Princess with "You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed" and Dick is this guy, again, take care of his own problems is the normal thing to do, but still hurts.
I am so emotional this days (/u\) omg

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Me too! And I don't even like corn XD

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Now I want some corn.


Me too! And I don't even like corn XD

----------


## Astralabius

They really did publish the wrong issue of Challenge of the Super Sons this week. The app told me to re-download the issue and now I have the new and correct story.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I'm not saying Dick should be the "makes everything better" person, just that Arkham has an awful track record when it comes to, well, everything.


Yet Batman and GCPD still puts mentally ill murderers in Gotham on Arkham Asylum even until now. Like isn't that one of silly but default rules on Gotham? Mentally ill murderers? Straight to Arkham. Domino mask? Truly perfect disguise. I think people have to protest about it first before critizing Dick for placing Jason on Arkham. He as Batman just followed his mentor's path and main premise on Batman story.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Yet Batman and GCPD still puts mentally ill murderers in Gotham on Arkham Asylum even until now. Like isn't that one of silly but default rules on Gotham? Mentally ill murderers? Straight to Arkham. Domino mask? Truly perfect disguise. I think people have to protest about it first before critizing Dick for placing Jason on Arkham. He as Batman just followed his mentor's path and main premise on Batman story.


I think everybody protests about this, I got the law of crazy people can't be the judge as mentally healthy people, it's just Arkaham is terrible as a prison or recuperation place. GCPD and Batman keeping thinking this is a good idea is completely no sense, Dick doing the same thing is not smart too.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I think everybody protests about this, I got the law of crazy people can't be the judge as mentally healthy people, it's just Arkaham is terrible as a prison or recuperation place. GCPD and Batman keeping thinking this is a good idea is completely no sense, Dick doing the same thing is not smart too.


Yet they don't change it. Bane still got thrown to Arkham. Freaking Joker always gets thrown to Arkham even after Dick gave Batman's cowl back to Bruce. Arkham is such an iconic place on Batman mythos so I don't see it will get replaced by another asylum for example. I don't see the way to make Dick choose better place than Arkham Asylum (possibly newly created by writer, a.k.a it will lost against Arkham Asylum on iconic aspect) without painting Bruce as a total stupid hero, especially when he still uses Arkham asylum until now.

----------


## Zaresh

Probably just my opinion, but both Bane and Joker do know what they're doing, and know they're doing if just for violence's sake alone. The Joker is nowadays a straight psychopath who does whatever he feels, he's not crazy: he lacks empathy and just doesn't care at all for others or morals or whatever. Bane, well: sometimes he is in a bad place, sometimes he's just a violent man. The thing is, if they don't need treatment of any kind, you don't put them in an asylum: you send them to prison. But iconic whatever writing, send them to Arkham or whatever. Sure that's a prison alright.

----------


## Fergus

> I think everybody protests about this, I got the law of crazy people can't be the judge as mentally healthy people, it's just Arkaham is terrible as a prison or recuperation place. GCPD and Batman keeping thinking this is a good idea is completely no sense, Dick doing the same thing is not smart too.


People don't protest it in universe. The point still stands that to give Dick flak for something he has no power over is just unfair and silly.

If there was an alternative to AA then Dick would have tossed Jason in there but there isn't so in Arkham he goes.

----------


## Fergus

> Probably just my opinion, but both Bane and Joker do know what they're doing, and know they're doing if just for violence's sake alone. The Joker is nowadays a straight psychopath who does whatever he feels, he's not crazy: he lacks empathy and just doesn't care at all for others or morals or whatever. Bane, well: sometimes he is in a bad place, sometimes he's just a violent man. The thing is, if they don't need treatment of any kind, you don't put them in an asylum: you send them to prison. But iconic whatever writing, send them to Arkham or whatever. Sure that's a prison alright.


Joker isn't always written as sane. Some versions are sane but not all

----------


## Fergus

> I remember that part, so Tim was right just for lucky?


Tim was right that bruce wasn't dead but he didn't have any proof. Basically the RR book was planned but the writers had to wait on Morrison to know how and what was happening with Bruce so Tim just kept saying that he had a feeling Bruce was alive but without any evidence to back it up

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Yet they don't change it. Bane still got thrown to Arkham. Freaking Joker always gets thrown to Arkham even after Dick gave Batman's cowl back to Bruce. Arkham is such an iconic place on Batman mythos so I don't see it will get replaced by another asylum for example. I don't see the way to make Dick choose better place than Arkham Asylum (possibly newly created by writer, a.k.a it will lost against Arkham Asylum on iconic aspect) without painting Bruce as a total stupid hero, especially when he still uses Arkham asylum until now.


I don't know in the history a better place than Arkham, but I can't think how a place could be worst than it too XD
Yeah, Bruce would looks stupid... I have this idea on my mind of Arkham being reconstructed or a new asylum, so the plans can go wrong and they say "maybe Arkham is not perfect, but still is the better place we could construct in all Gotham history" or "Arkham is very good, but the Villains are too bad even for this good system deal with" so we would believe that Arkham is a good idea and they already tried something different before, nice idea, right? Would be very epic... 

"Arkham: 10 bad guys get in, 11 bad guy get ou"

----------


## Fergus

> Well, I don't really know the detail myself so I just copy-paste Tim fans' answer about Tim's role in finding Bruce.
> 
> 
> this panel (red robin issue 12 present-day) shows that Alfred and Dick already knew. (meaning they had already found evidence of Bruce's survival while Tim was in Europe.)
> 
> 
> the second picture is from the return of Bruce Wayne (by Grant Morrison) where Morrison directly references the bat symbol Tim found in Europe.
> 
> all Issue 12 adds is Tim finding the picture of Mordecai Wayne right after he was fired from being robin. this is how Tim knew Bruce was stranded in time.
> ...


Did you not read Batman and Robin with the evil Bruce clone who taunted Damian?
Why would you look to a Tim fan for Dick's story?
Dick found out that Bruce wasn't dead and solved the 1st clues in london with squire.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> People don't protest it in universe. The point still stands that to give Dick flak for something he has no power over is just unfair and silly.
> 
> If there was an alternative to AA then Dick would have tossed Jason in there but there isn't so in Arkham he goes.


You mean in DC universe or fans?
I got Dick had a bad idea because everybody has the same bad idea.
 I think Bruce is a jerk for saying Jason was crazy and put him in Arkham; and don't like Dick also saying Jason was crazy and putting him on Arkham. It Is just a fail of the script that keep repeating, and I can't see how this someone could thing "the other 999 persons that we sent went wrong, but this time I think they got it"

----------


## Zaresh

> Joker isn't always written as sane. Some versions are sane but not all


When was the last time he was honest-to-god written as insane and not just someone we're told is insane by some character in story? Because Batman or any other can say that Joker is insane, but he can perfectly be written as a pretty "sane" psycho in that same story, despite those characters saying he's not. It's been a trend for the character since the 80's. I can't take it seriously when they do it, and they do it a lot.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I read, I don't know why, but I really thought Tim discovered about Bruce being alive before Dick and Damian, but could not convince them, so they discovered by themselves with the fake resurrect Bruce... I still don't know where that body come from...

Think like this, I know Tim said "Bruce is alive" so I just follow Dick and Damian stories, so they discovered about Bruce not being dead and Dick said "Tim was right, Bruce is not dead", I concluded Tim knew what happened by his investigation and Dick discovered by accident because it's like I got 50% of "where is Bruce?" Story

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Double post ><

----------


## Zaresh

> I read, I don't know why, but I really thought Tim discovered about Bruce being alive before Dick and Damian, but could not convince them, so they discovered by themselves with the fake resurrect Bruce... I still don't know where that body come from...
> 
> Think like this, I know Tim said "Bruce is alive" so I just follow Dick and Damian stories, so they discovered about Bruce not being dead and Dick said "Tim was right, Bruce is not dead", I concluded Tim knew what happened by his investigation and Dick discovered by accident because it's like I got 50% of "where is Bruce?" Story


Reading Red Robin years ago, I got the impression it was Tim the one who discovered the clues first. But it's probably safer if you go ask in his thread. Just for the sake of not diverting Damian's thread with off topic about other character (as we've been doing with Tim, Dick and now Joker. I take partial responsibility for that last one).

----------


## Drako

> Reading Red Robin years ago, I got the impression it was Tim the one who discovered the clues first. But it's probably safer if you go ask in his thread. Just for the sake of not diverting Damian's thread with off topic about other character (as we've been doing with Tim, Dick and now Joker. I take partial responsibility for that last one).


Yes, he was. He recognised Bruce in one of the pictures of the Wayne ancestors. But for whatever reason, he never told anyone about that.

----------


## Godlike13

That wasn’t revealed until later. Red Robin kind of existed in its own wold. With him finding Bat caves in the Middle East and what have you.

----------


## Drako

> That wasn’t revealed until later. Red Robin kind of existed in its own wold. With him finding Bat caves in the Middle East and what have you.


Yeah, because it would spoil "The Return of Bruce Wayne" that Morrison was doing. But chronologically, that portrait was the reason he found out Bruce was alive and that was before he left the mansion.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Yes, he was. He recognised Bruce in one of the pictures of the Wayne ancestors. But for whatever reason, he never told anyone about that.


Because it's just a hunch, and he knew that. If he tells anyone they'd think he's gone crazy with grief. There's a body after all. So he went away on his own to find more clues to confirm it.

----------


## Godlike13

Except he pretty much told everyone that Bruce was still alive, and then just gave no actual support to that claim.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Yeah, because it would spoil "The Return of Bruce Wayne" that Morrison was doing. But chronologically, that portrait was the reason he found out Bruce was alive and that was before he left the mansion.


yeah! this is what I remembered, so he really discovered before, thanks <3

----------


## Light of Justice

> Did you not read Batman and Robin with the evil Bruce clone who taunted Damian?
> Why would you look to a Tim fan for Dick's story?
> Dick found out that Bruce wasn't dead and solved the 1st clues in london with squire.


I've read it, and precisely only read that comic regarding Return of Bruce Wayne, because I was on that time only a fan of Dickbats and pretty much didn't really care for Bruce. But since the original poster asked about Tim's role on finding Bruce, I feel like it will be unfair to only tell her about my knowledge on Batman and Robin. Just like I said, I don't know the detail myself, I just found a comment about Batman book acknowledges Tim's clue, and apparently it happened before Dick found the evidence? 

I agree with @Zaresh, @Rebecca Armus should ask about it on Tim appreciation thread. To be completely honest, I don't really care about Return of Bruce Wayne arc and how he was resurrected.i just care that because Bruce was resurrected, Dickbats was ended

----------


## Restingvoice

When you look at something like Court of Owls, part of the logic of Court of Owls was that the owl is a natural predator for bats. So it works with those characters. So I was like, 'Okay, well, I'll take that logic and apply it to Robin. What are robin's natural predators?' And I looked it up and it was hawks.

But then once I started writing the book and I started realizing, it never clicked in my brain until I was actually writing it how much Damian and Connor have in common.

Once I started really outlining out what the whole first part was going to be, the emotional story for Damian became tied in with Connor Hawke and what Connor Hawke is going through. It jelled really, really well. Issue #3 has a big scene with the two of them that's one of my favorite things I've done in a long time. It's one of my favorite scenes in the book, the two of them having, essentially, a bonding moment where they're talking about what their lives have been like and how much they have in common.

- Joshua Williamson on Hawke and Robin

https://www.cbr.com/robin-joshua-wil...ampaign=CBR-TW

----------


## Restingvoice

"Well, selfishly for me, I enjoy throwing Damian in different situations where he has to interact with people. 

And it might be situations where he isn't his normal situation, where he's such a competent person, but I think there are ways of throwing him into situations that might humble him or where he might clash with people. 

I love Damian. I've liked him since day one. I've wanted to write him for years. And so for me, I like that idea of him being this wildcard of the DCU and him going through this growth period in his life where he just went through a lot of really hard stuff, and now he's taking a step back to reflect on what happened, growing as a character. Those are all the things that are important to me with him.

Damian is a person who thinks they know everything and then suddenly is confronted with, 'Maybe I don't know everything, maybe there's a piece of the world I'm not aware of and it was kept secret from me. How was that kept secret from me? Why was that kept secret from me?' And let's throw him into that situation, the League of Lazarus, where he finds himself surrounded by all of these people that... When Damian was first introduced, a part of his story was that he was a person that was like, "I can take a life. I can do this thing. I'm the best at killing. I can do this, doesn't matter." And then to just surround him with people who, all these fighters outside of Connor Hawke, a lot of them are assassins. A lot of them are mercenaries who kill people.

So to suddenly find himself in that situation again where Damian's around people who are just like, 'Oh yeah, I have no problem killing people. You're totally right. We should just kill people.' 

Finding himself in that moment, I think, makes Damian confront a lot of parts of himself and the fact that he was raised to be a weapon. He was raised to be a weapon, to be a vessel for rage -- all these things where people were just taking away who he was to make him into something else. 

I think being in this tournament, Damian gets to see other people who've gone through things very similar to him. And instead of them constantly trying to help him, I think it's an opportunity for him to help others get through what he also went through. All these pieces just go into this big story, and then there's a bunch of fighting."

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> When you look at something like Court of Owls, part of the logic of Court of Owls was that the owl is a natural predator for bats. So it works with those characters. So I was like, 'Okay, well, I'll take that logic and apply it to Robin. What are robin's natural predators?' And I looked it up and it was hawks.
> 
> But then once I started writing the book and I started realizing, it never clicked in my brain until I was actually writing it how much Damian and Connor have in common.
> 
> Once I started really outlining out what the whole first part was going to be, the emotional story for Damian became tied in with Connor Hawke and what Connor Hawke is going through. It jelled really, really well. Issue #3 has a big scene with the two of them that's one of my favorite things I've done in a long time. It's one of my favorite scenes in the book, the two of them having, essentially, a bonding moment where they're talking about what their lives have been like and how much they have in common.
> 
> - Joshua Williamson on Hawke and Robin
> 
> https://www.cbr.com/robin-joshua-wil...ampaign=CBR-TW


Joshua Williamson really said anything I wanted to hear in this interview, I'm dying to read this book! And it seems to me he really understands Damian, which is a huge relieve.

----------


## Perfidiously

It really sounds like the book is going to be incredible for Damian's character. (And Connor! Still not over Connor being back). Really can't wait for it!

----------


## Rebeca Armus

OMG, this is so good TuT)/

----------


## Shen

You can actually feel his love and excitement for the characters in the article. He's writing this as a fan. The way he describes the pacing of the book was just perfect. I think Damian is finally in great hands.

----------


## Blue22

Yep. I had my concerns at first but now I'm pretty sure our boy is finally in a good place again. Hell, this might end up being the best place he's been in since coming back from the dead.

----------


## Frontier

> When you look at something like Court of Owls, part of the logic of Court of Owls was that the owl is a natural predator for bats. So it works with those characters. So I was like, 'Okay, well, I'll take that logic and apply it to Robin. What are robin's natural predators?' And I looked it up and it was hawks.
> 
> But then once I started writing the book and I started realizing, it never clicked in my brain until I was actually writing it how much Damian and Connor have in common.
> 
> Once I started really outlining out what the whole first part was going to be, the emotional story for Damian became tied in with Connor Hawke and what Connor Hawke is going through. It jelled really, really well. Issue #3 has a big scene with the two of them that's one of my favorite things I've done in a long time. It's one of my favorite scenes in the book, the two of them having, essentially, a bonding moment where they're talking about what their lives have been like and how much they have in common.
> 
> - Joshua Williamson on Hawke and Robin
> 
> https://www.cbr.com/robin-joshua-wil...ampaign=CBR-TW


Williamson and me both on not noticing the similarities until it came up...especially when Emiko felt like a more direct stand-in for Damian.

Really excited for this book  :Smile: .

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> When you look at something like Court of Owls, part of the logic of Court of Owls was that the owl is a natural predator for bats. So it works with those characters. So I was like, 'Okay, well, I'll take that logic and apply it to Robin. What are robin's natural predators?' And I looked it up and it was hawks.
> 
> But then once I started writing the book and I started realizing, it never clicked in my brain until I was actually writing it how much Damian and Connor have in common.
> 
> Once I started really outlining out what the whole first part was going to be, the emotional story for Damian became tied in with Connor Hawke and what Connor Hawke is going through. It jelled really, really well. Issue #3 has a big scene with the two of them that's one of my favorite things I've done in a long time. It's one of my favorite scenes in the book, the two of them having, essentially, a bonding moment where they're talking about what their lives have been like and how much they have in common.
> 
> - Joshua Williamson on Hawke and Robin
> 
> https://www.cbr.com/robin-joshua-wil...ampaign=CBR-TW


can you try past the link again? it's broken

----------


## Restingvoice

> can you try past the link again? it's broken


if that doesn't work I don't have it anymore

----------


## numberthirty

> can you try past the link again? it's broken


Hey...

I suspect that this is the interview. Search without the space between the "T" and the "O"-

robin-joshua-williamson-lazarus-t ournament-interview

----------


## delaviux

Wild speculation: I think Maps Mizoguchi will be on Robin #1. I think this is Maps:

154258538_244877713930752_8227394091894549430_n.jpg

----------


## Astralabius

> Wild speculation: I think Maps Mizoguchi will be on Robin #1. I think this is Maps:
> 
> 154258538_244877713930752_8227394091894549430_n.jpg


I think Damian is just reading a manga

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Hey...
> 
> I suspect that this is the interview. Search without the space between the "T" and the "O"-
> 
> robin-joshua-williamson-lazarus-t ournament-interview


Thank you <3

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I think Damian is just reading a manga


I like the idea of Damian liking a couple of manga titles but denying it =u=)/

I just notice the bag, this give a feeling of "running way from home"!

----------


## sifighter

> I think Damian is just reading a manga


He’s secretly a big fan of Demon Slayer and Jujutsu Kaisen, especially after Jon got him started on Naruto

----------


## Light of Justice

> He’s secretly a big fan of Demon Slayer and Jujutsu Kaisen, especially after Jon got him started on Naruto


wonder what's his opinion about Assassination Classroom

----------


## Light of Justice

> When you look at something like Court of Owls, part of the logic of Court of Owls was that the owl is a natural predator for bats. So it works with those characters. So I was like, 'Okay, well, I'll take that logic and apply it to Robin. What are robin's natural predators?' And I looked it up and it was hawks.
> 
> But then once I started writing the book and I started realizing, it never clicked in my brain until I was actually writing it how much Damian and Connor have in common.
> 
> Once I started really outlining out what the whole first part was going to be, the emotional story for Damian became tied in with Connor Hawke and what Connor Hawke is going through. It jelled really, really well. Issue #3 has a big scene with the two of them that's one of my favorite things I've done in a long time. It's one of my favorite scenes in the book, the two of them having, essentially, a bonding moment where they're talking about what their lives have been like and how much they have in common.
> 
> - Joshua Williamson on Hawke and Robin
> 
> https://www.cbr.com/robin-joshua-wil...ampaign=CBR-TW


Really looking forward for Connor and Damian bonding! Still, this kid funnily tends to start a friendship with a fight.

----------


## Jackalope89

> He’s secretly a big fan of Demon Slayer and Jujutsu Kaisen, especially after Jon got him started on Naruto


Nah, he's reading a series with anthropomorphic animals.

----------


## Astralabius

> I like the idea of Damian liking a couple of manga titles but denying it =u=)/
> 
> I just notice the bag, this give a feeling of "running way from home"!


I mean, he's basically been running away from home since No Justice. It's just that Bruce finally started noticing it now.

----------


## Astralabius

> Really looking forward for Connor and Damian bonding! Still, this kid funnily tends to start a friendship with a fight.


I'm just imagining them fighting and they start to one-up each other on who had it the hardest and then they realize they have almost the same issues.

----------


## Astralabius

Unmasked Damian and Rose by Gleb Melnikov

----------


## Hypo

*DC Festival of Heroes Introduces Monkey Prince!*



> “What’s in the Box?” – Cassandra Cain steps into the spotlight once more, but this time with Colin Wilkes, a.k.a. Abuse (who first appeared in Detective Comics #947, October 2008), courtesy of words and art by Dustin Nguyen. Abuse finds Batgirl sitting by a bridge, upset by a comment made by Damian Wayne.





> “Special Delivery” – Master of None writer Aniz Ansari makes his comic book debut with artist Sami Basri in this story featuring Robin (Damian Wayne). As Robin ponders about his heritage, he slowly discovers that something about this pizza place seems off…

----------


## Rac7d*

> *DC Festival of Heroes Introduces Monkey Prince!*


Give me all the Damian. The more the better

----------


## Blue22

Titles that will include Damian in the Asian Heroes Celebration:




> 'What's in the Box?' by Dustin Nguyen, starring Cassandra Cain, Colin Wilkes (Abuse), and Damian Wayne (Robin)
> 
> 'Special Delivery' by Aniz Ansari and Sami Basri, starring Damian Wayne


I was shocked to see Colin included in one of these at first. But then I saw who was writing that particular story lol





> He’s secretly a big fan of Demon Slayer and Jujutsu Kaisen, especially after Jon got him started on Naruto


Jon got him started? HA. Damian's totally a closet anime snob and scoffs at Jon for only reading/watching the mainstream stuff XD

He'd probably also do some shit like this:

Damian: [hands Jon the full set of _Devilman_] "Here. I'm sure you'll like this."

[two days later]

Jon: [sobbing] "WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU!?"

----------


## Shen

> He'd probably also do some shit like this:
> 
> Damian: [hands Jon the full set of _Devilman_] "Here. I'm sure you'll like this."
> 
> [two days later]
> 
> Jon: [sobbing] "WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU!?"


Damian: [Apologises]

Damian: [Proceeds to give Jon the _Berserk_ series]

[Days later]

Damian: What is this nonsense, father?

Bruce: Clark contacted me the other day, and we both decided it'll be good if you spoke to someone qualified...

Damian: You first!

----------


## the1&onlyE.

Hey, guys, I don't know if you remember this, but I thought Juni Ba was doing Damian's story in the Asian Superheroes special. It turns out, however, that's not case - and he confirmed it. So, I guess there's something else coming and Damian will be in it!

----------


## Blue22

> Damian: [Apologises]
> 
> Damian: [Proceeds to give Jon the _Berserk_ series]
> 
> [Days later]
> 
> Damian: What is this nonsense, father?
> 
> Bruce: Clark contacted me the other day, and we both decided it'll be good if you spoke to someone qualified...
> ...


He was ready to show him Evangelion, Akame Ga Kill, Blassreiter, Another, Higurashi no Naku Koro ni, and Juni Taisen. Then Bruce and Clark had to intervene. Killjoys.

----------


## Shen

> He was ready to show him Evangelion, Akame Ga Kill, Blassreiter, Another, Higurashi no Naku Koro ni, and Juni Taisen. Then Bruce and Clark had to intervene. Killjoys.


😂 Damian would troll Jon soo much. And Jon would always fall for it. God, they need an animated series soo bad!

----------


## Frontier

It's nice to see Colin back.

I'm guessing Damian's story will deal more with understanding and acknowledging his ethnicity?

----------


## Hypo

> Titles that will include Damian in the Asian Heroes Celebration:


Missed that on my first read through - updated my post.

----------


## Astralabius

> Hey, guys, I don't know if you remember this, but I thought Juni Ba was doing Damian's story in the Asian Superheroes special. It turns out, however, that's not case - and he confirmed it. So, I guess there's something else coming and Damian will be in it!


He's wearing his old suit, so probably set in the past or out of continuity.

----------


## Restingvoice

Colin Wilkes is on life support only one person is using him once every five years or something XD

----------


## KrustyKid

> Colin Wilkes is on life support only one person is using him once every five years or something XD


Pretty much, lol

----------


## Astralabius

https://www.gamesradar.com/amp/goodb...mpression=true

New newsarama interview with Joshua Williamson

Damian will be 14 years old in Robin. So I guess that means Bruce missed yet another one of his birthdays.

----------


## Astralabius

"Any other Bat-Family members you can tease who we can expect to show up?

Williamson: They are all in the first issue with cameos. Then gradually, not to get too much into the spoilers, part of the thing is that Damian is missing. Like he's taken off, and Bruce isn't just going to let that fly. He's going to try to find him.

So, everyone in the Bat-Family is trying to look for Damian and they're looking for clues. Oracle is out there trying to pick up any traces, but he's a ghost. He's done the thing he's trained to do and he's disappeared. But that doesn't mean that they're not going to keep trying to find him, and we're going to show the search as well as what happens eventually when they do find him."

I'm really glad we'll finally get to see the batfamily try to do something about it, but I just kinda can't get over the fact that it took almost three years for them to go "hmmm, you know, maybe we should try to find that kid. He should be home with us"
 :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> Damian: [Apologises]
> 
> Damian: [Proceeds to give Jon the _Berserk_ series]
> 
> [Days later]
> 
> Damian: What is this nonsense, father?
> 
> Bruce: Clark contacted me the other day, and we both decided it'll be good if you spoke to someone qualified...
> ...





> Titles that will include Damian in the Asian Heroes Celebration:
> 
> 
> 
> I was shocked to see Colin included in one of these at first. But then I saw who was writing that particular story lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Berserk and Devilman are hella mainstream but that's exactly what a closeted anime snob would rec. I bet Damian only watches Evangelion with the original subs.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> Nah, he's reading a series with anthropomorphic animals.


Damian reads Beastars confirmed?

----------


## Blue22

> Berserk and Devilman are hella mainstream but that's exactly what a closeted anime snob would rec. I bet Damian only watches Evangelion with the original subs.


Berserk yes. But Devilman....I'd argue it actually wasn't until the remake came out, like three years ago.

Either way, I was going less for him recommending things to Jon that weren't mainstream and more things that would undoubtedly scar the poor kid for life lol

And yeah. He's totally a sub watcher....Actually no. He doesn't even need the subs. He just watches them raw XD

----------


## Eto

> https://www.gamesradar.com/amp/goodb...mpression=true
> 
> New newsarama interview with Joshua Williamson
> 
> *Damian will be 14 years old in Robin. S*o I guess that means Bruce missed yet another one of his birthdays.


Good to know, thanks.
Can't wait for the 1st issue.

----------


## Blue22

> https://www.gamesradar.com/amp/goodb...mpression=true
> 
> New newsarama interview with Joshua Williamson
> 
> Damian will be 14 years old in Robin. So I guess that means Bruce missed yet another one of his birthdays.


It's about time. Considering Jon's been 11 since the start of Bendis' run, Damian should have turned 14 a long time ago.

----------


## Eto

Awesome pfp btw  :Cool:    @Blue22

----------


## Blue22

> Awesome pfp btw    @Blue22


Lol thanks. Had to represent all four of my sons. Wasn't fair to only have Beast Boy XD

----------


## Eto

> Lol thanks. Had to represent all four of my sons. Wasn't fair to only have Beast Boy XD


Here's hopinng all FOUR of the boys will have a bright 2021 (Damian so far has...the other three, eehh)

----------


## Blue22

> Here's hopinng all FOUR of the boys will have a bright 2021 (Damian so far has...the other three, eehh)


There's no hope for Jon at this point. Bart might have a shot depending on where Flash goes. I wouldn't mind him being Wally's partner again since Wallace is busy. And Gar's doing alright with Titans Academy. I'm glad DC's finally acknowledging that he and Raven are adults lol

----------


## sifighter

> https://www.gamesradar.com/amp/goodb...mpression=true
> 
> New newsarama interview with Joshua Williamson
> 
> Damian will be 14 years old in Robin. So I guess that means Bruce missed yet another one of his birthdays.


I knew it! No way he was still 13. Im doing an excited chant right now over such a silly little thing.

And yeah Bruce isn’t exactly great when it comes to raising Damian, heck even Dick was better at it. I’m not saying Bruce doesn’t love Damian, his Bat-life just does not lead to a lot of time with him showing affection.




> Berserk yes. But Devilman....I'd argue it actually wasn't until the remake came out, like three years ago.
> 
> Either way, I was going less for him recommending things to Jon that weren't mainstream and more things that would undoubtedly scar the poor kid for life lol
> 
> And yeah. He's totally a sub watcher....Actually no. He doesn't even need the subs. He just watches them raw XD


I mean I could see Damian completely understanding Japanese. He learned it from Talia or Bruce under the pretext of training but really he wanted to secretly watch anime.

----------


## adrikito

> https://www.gamesradar.com/amp/goodb...mpression=true
> 
> New newsarama interview with Joshua Williamson
> 
> Damian will be 14 years old in Robin. So I guess that means Bruce missed yet another one of his birthdays.


14??? FINALLY.

I liked see Rose and the COPYRIGHT Joke to Slade copy.. Maybe this serie will make me as happy as *ROBIN SON OF BATMAN* I heard that King Snake is BANE FATHER?? Wtf.. I did not saw him too old. Maybe he died and returned to life YEARS LATER?

Tell me that this BATMAN in the image who is alongside Robin Damian is DICK GRAYSON.. I can´t believe that I see him with SuperKID here but Grayson who is more important in his life is not here.  :Mad: 

So the BATfamily is trying to find him.. Ok.. Despite only with Grayson trying to find him would have been enough for some of us.

I desire to him good luck with his sidekick.  :Wink:

----------


## sifighter

I assumed it was Dick when it was a lighter blue suit, but for all we know that is Bruce unless otherwise stated.

----------


## adrikito

I assumed it too but.. Unless I see one Old Batman collection with DICK as Batman like that I discard it.

----------


## Eckri

> "Any other Bat-Family members you can tease who we can expect to show up?
> 
> Williamson: They are all in the first issue with cameos. Then gradually, not to get too much into the spoilers, part of the thing is that Damian is missing. Like he's taken off, and Bruce isn't just going to let that fly. He's going to try to find him.
> 
> So, everyone in the Bat-Family is trying to look for Damian and they're looking for clues. Oracle is out there trying to pick up any traces, but he's a ghost. He's done the thing he's trained to do and he's disappeared. But that doesn't mean that they're not going to keep trying to find him, and we're going to show the search as well as what happens eventually when they do find him."
> 
> I'm really glad we'll finally get to see the batfamily try to do something about it, but I just kinda can't get over the fact that it took almost three years for them to go "hmmm, you know, maybe we should try to find that kid. He should be home with us"


I'll not lie seeing the drama of every bat family member hunting for Damian is entertaining, on the move while on the hunt, oh the stories with that. 

Then at the same time you got the Detective of the Batfamily, Tim Drake, the Digital Watcher, Barbara Gordon, and Batman, his father, on the trail finding a 14 year old kid with no resources to spare. Excluding Dick with the Titans at his side to help him, and Jason too. 

Makes me wonder if in the Batfamily, Damian by far is the most stealthiest person. I'm sure he's got the skills to boost but evading the whole Batfamily, I'll wait see what explanation they got for him managing to evade them. 

Can't wait for the first issue.

----------


## Restingvoice

> https://www.gamesradar.com/amp/goodb...mpression=true
> 
> New newsarama interview with Joshua Williamson
> 
> Damian will be 14 years old in Robin. So I guess that means Bruce missed yet another one of his birthdays.


Alright, counting everything, with the solicit for Tim Drake said he's a young adult and Nightwing also got his birthday in Titans Academy and the students said he's getting old, we're using Post Crisis age. 

Damian's 14, Tim's 20, Dick's 30, and Bruce's 45 until confirmed otherwise. 

Except Babs who's still the same age as Dick so she's 30 too.

Wait I just remember Steph is 19 in Rebirth, add one year for Infinite Frontier and Tim's 19 and still count as young adult. 

But that's like only one year of age difference so who cares. The mystery is Dick and Bruce. They both reach that age where they can't age anymore.

----------


## Astralabius

> 14??? FINALLY.
> 
> I liked see Rose and the COPYRIGHT Joke to Slade copy.. Maybe this serie will make me as happy as *ROBIN SON OF BATMAN* I heard that King Snake is BANE FATHER?? Wtf.. I did not saw him too old. Maybe he died and returned to life YEARS LATER?
> 
> Tell me that this BATMAN in the image who is alongside Robin Damian is DICK GRAYSON.. I canÂ´t believe that I see him with SuperKID here but Grayson who is more important in his life is not here. 
> 
> So the BATfamily is trying to find him.. Ok.. Despite only with Grayson trying to find him would have been enough for some of us.
> 
> I desire to him good luck with his sidekick.


No, I'm 99% percent sure this is Bruce as Batman. The page is supposed to be a little introduction for new readers who don't know Damian yet and Damian's brand is being the son of Batman. Williamson said something along the lines of "Son of Batman, Talia is his mom. He was in the Super Sons and Teen Titans. He had a falling out with Batman" when he talked about this page.
Considering that this whole situation was mainly caused by his problems with Bruce it makes more sense to focus on that.

Not directly a response to your comment, more like something your post reminded me of, but I'm always a bit confused when I see huge fans of Dick as Batman and Damian as his Robin talk about the current situation as if Dick is the knight in shining armor who will rescue Damian the second he learns about Damian having gone rogue or being missing.

Dick knew Damian was going rogue before he got shot in the head, but his only response was "Damian's choices are his own and will have to wait for the time being"
When Dick got his memory back he didn't ask where Damian was, he didn't comment on his absence in Joker War either. When Bruce told them all what happened Dick wasn't shown to have a different reaction from the rest.
When he gets a note from Damian asking him to mentor his former Teen Titans team he talks badly about Damian and does not try to find Damian.

This is not meant as a dig against Dick, Damian is not his responsibility, Bruce is Damian's father. Dick has his own life to deal with.
I'm merely expressing my confusion over the high amount of posts I've seen that act like Dick will drop everything and go travel the world in search for Damian the second somebody tells him there is something wrong with him.

----------


## Shen

https://screenrant.com/red-hood-jaso...l-villain/amp/

Truth and Justice #12 sets up the idea that Jason would become the next Ra's al Ghul, and Talia's around doing her usual stuff. Although it is Screenrant, so take it with a grain of salt - they like to over-emphasize. 

I know she helped train and raise him, but it annoys me when I see more of Talia's interactions with Jay than with Dami.

----------


## Astralabius

> Truth and Justice #12 sets up the idea that Jason would become the next Ra's al Ghul, and Talia's around doing her usual stuff. I know she helped train and raise him, but it annoys me when I see more of her interactions with Jay than with Dami.


That and it annoys me when DC keeps acting like she's part of the league of assassins when she hasn't been in years. She had her own organization called Leviathan. Also, how many people has DC tried to hail as the next Ra's al Ghul by now? It's overdone.
I assume this book is out of continuity, but it still annoys me. Get more creative DC.

----------


## Astralabius

> I'll not lie seeing the drama of every bat family member hunting for Damian is entertaining, on the move while on the hunt, oh the stories with that. 
> 
> Then at the same time you got the Detective of the Batfamily, Tim Drake, the Digital Watcher, Barbara Gordon, and Batman, his father, on the trail finding a 14 year old kid with no resources to spare. Excluding Dick with the Titans at his side to help him, and Jason too. 
> 
> Makes me wonder if in the Batfamily, Damian by far is the most stealthiest person. I'm sure he's got the skills to boost but evading the whole Batfamily, I'll wait see what explanation they got for him managing to evade them. 
> 
> Can't wait for the first issue.


The league of lazarus managed to stay hidden for hundreds of years and Bruce doesn't know about them, so Damian being on their secret island will probably help with that.

----------


## Shen

> The league of lazarus managed to stay hidden for hundreds of years and Bruce doesn't know about them, so Damian being on their secret island will probably help with that.


Wasn't there a story where Zod wanted to use the Lazarus pits, and Ra's told Bruce the pits were being protected by the league of Lazarus?

----------


## Astralabius

> Wasn't there a story where Zod wanted to use the Lazarus pits, and Ra's told Bruce the pits were being protected by the league of Lazarus?


Yeah, but I'm pretty sure Williamson is retconning his own story.
He said himself that Bruce has no records of them on the batcomputer and everything Williamson has said about the league of lazarus in his interviews about Robin doesn't fit together with what Ra's said about them in Batman and Superman.

----------


## Shen

> That and it annoys me when DC keeps acting like she's part of the league of assassins when she hasn't been in years. She had her own organization called Leviathan. Also, how many people has DC tried to hail as the next Ra's al Ghul by now? It's overdone.
> I assume this book is out of continuity, but it still annoys me. Get more creative DC.


I mean, the title of Ra's has kinda lost it's importance over time. Quite a few people can fill in the roll now, so I'm guessing this is just also out of continuity, just to get those fans who love their fanfics excited. The article you posted also says Ra's will show up in the Robin ongoing, and that he and Damian will actually converse. I can't wait to learn more about their history and Lore.

----------


## Shen

> Yeah, but I'm pretty sure Williamson is retconning his own story.
> He said himself that Bruce has no records of them on the batcomputer and everything Williamson has said about the league of lazarus in his interviews about Robin doesn't fit together with what Ra's said about them in Batman and Superman.


Yeah you're right, he's definitely retconning it. Trying to add more to the Assassin mythos like they did for Jason and his connection to the All-Caste. There's soo many secret guilds and societies and leagues in DC that I can't even keep up anymore.

----------


## Restingvoice

> https://screenrant.com/red-hood-jaso...l-villain/amp/
> 
> Truth and Justice #12 sets up the idea that Jason would become the next Ra's al Ghul, and Talia's around doing her usual stuff. Although it is Screenrant, so take it with a grain of salt - they like to over-emphasize. 
> 
> I know she helped train and raise him, but it annoys me when I see more of Talia's interactions with Jay than with Dami.


Tynion did a story of Jason being an heir of Ra's way back when he was still a new writer in New 52




> That and it annoys me when DC keeps acting like she's part of the league of assassins when she hasn't been in years. She had her own organization called Leviathan. Also, how many people has DC tried to hail as the next Ra's al Ghul by now? It's overdone.
> I assume this book is out of continuity, but it still annoys me. Get more creative DC.


Leviathan was over when Batman Inc end and she died. I don't know what her organization is aside from random bodyguards and ninja.

----------


## Astralabius

> Leviathan was over when Batman Inc end and she died. I don't know what her organization is aside from random bodyguards and ninja.


She had Leviathan until Mark Shaw took it from her in Event Leviathan. You also missed my point. It doesn't matter what Leviathan is or was, Talia hasn't been part of the league of assassins and serving Ra's in a long time.

----------


## CPSparkles

> That and it annoys me when DC keeps acting like she's part of the league of assassins when she hasn't been in years. She had her own organization called Leviathan. Also, how many people has DC tried to hail as the next Ra's al Ghul by now? It's overdone.
> I assume this book is out of continuity, but it still annoys me. Get more creative DC.


Ra's has attempted to recruit Bruce, Dick, Damian, Tim, Jason and Duke to fill the spot. Oh and that cold dude, The fanatic who usurped Damian after Ra's passed in BB. I guess Ra's hired him as back up should Damian   come down with a case of good guy attempts to save the world syndrome  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## CPSparkles

> https://www.gamesradar.com/amp/goodb...mpression=true
> 
> New newsarama interview with Joshua Williamson
> 
> Damian will be 14 years old in Robin. So I guess that means Bruce missed yet another one of his birthdays.


Writers just keep blindsiding the poor man with these Damian Birthday's.
Morrison - 10 Birthday's missed because Talia does thing's when she's ready.
Percy - Damian got a year older even though no one else in gotham got older. Some even got younger.
Williamson - another phantom Birthday.

Honestly I don't even think Bruce knows Damian's month and day of Birth. Did anyone tell him?

----------


## Shen

> Ra's has attempted to recruit Bruce, Dick, Damian, Tim, Jason and Duke to fill the spot. Oh and that cold dude, The fanatic who usurped Damian after Ra's passed in BB. I guess Ra's hired him as back up should Damian   come down with a case of good guy attempts to save the world syndrome


Damn, looks like the title of Ra's has been through more guys than Talia. Wasn't Bane hailed as a potential successor to the Demon's Head at one point?

----------


## Shen

> Honestly I don't even think Bruce knows Damian's month and day of Birth. Did anyone tell him?


As a Father he has a responsibility to find these things out, regardless of his emotional constipation or whatever other BS gets in the way. He's been a father figure to many of the other's who've come through the Batcave, he has to really step up his game because he's barely been there for his actual son.

----------


## Astralabius

> Writers just keep blindsiding the poor man with these Damian Birthday's.
> Morrison - 10 Birthday's missed because Talia does thing's when she's ready.
> Percy - Damian got a year older even though no one else in gotham got older. Some even got younger.
> Williamson - another phantom Birthday.
> 
> Honestly I don't even think Bruce knows Damian's month and day of Birth. Did anyone tell him?


He knows. If Damian didn't tell him Alfred did.

RCO006_w_1477619055-1.jpg

RCO019_w_1487842788-2.jpg

----------


## Astralabius

> As a Father he has a responsibility to find these things out, regardless of his emotional constipation or whatever other BS gets in the way. He's been a father figure to many of the other's who've come through the Batcave, he has to really step up his game because he's barely been there for his actual son.


Looking back at the first arc of Teen Titans (2016) makes one realize that Damian wasn't actually wrong in the way he saw his and Bruce's relationship in the DC Rebirth era.
He is an afterthought to Bruce and Bruce only pays attention to him if he gets in his way (Teen Titans, Tomasi's last arc in Detective Comics).
Oh, and if Bruce needs him for a mission. Like in City of Bane (even though that interaction happened off-panel) or in Detective Comics #1016 when he needed Damian to find a missing orphan in a snow storm while he was busy doing something else.

If Bruce is really searching for Damian in Robin then that is the first time since Rebirth began that Bruce proves Damian wrong.

----------


## CPSparkles

I think that if we are going to recall the bad we should also recall the good.

Supersons, Superman, Metal, Nightwing, Deathstroke v Batman, neck even GA gave us some great caring Batdad before King wrote him as the worst.

I feel that Percy did Bruce dirty by making him forget Damian's birthday for feels. It wasn't needed and it didn't feel right coming off of the place they were at following the new 52.

Bruce moving heaven and earth to bring Damian back and then going to him once he got his memory back in RSOB. To only bring Bruce in on TT to shit on him isn't right. King shit on Bruce and the family but he also gave us Bat burger and his run had the Button [not penned by him] where Bruce told his other dad about Damian.

Glass we know was mandated so Bruce not having eyes on Damian was necessary for Damian's fall.

I wish we had more Batdad but I understand that DC has no interest in that so I try to bear that in mind. Alfred RIP however there is no excuse for that other than Batman must not be held responsible for Alfred's death so the writers couldn't write him admitting that he was the one who sent Damian in making it his fault.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Damn, looks like the title of Ra's has been through more guys than Talia. Wasn't Bane hailed as a potential successor to the Demon's Head at one point?


Talia hasn't had that many lovers till King turned her into a Orgy Queen.

Yep we can add Bane to that long list.

----------


## Light of Justice

> https://screenrant.com/red-hood-jaso...l-villain/amp/
> 
> Truth and Justice #12 sets up the idea that Jason would become the next Ra's al Ghul, and Talia's around doing her usual stuff. Although it is Screenrant, so take it with a grain of salt - they like to over-emphasize. 
> 
> I know she helped train and raise him, but it annoys me when I see more of Talia's interactions with Jay than with Dami.


The most annoying thing about that for me is we never see either Jason or Damian actually acknowledge the fact that they both kinda tied with Talia. Even though Talia as Jason's resurrecter is as iconic as Talia as Damian's mom.

----------


## Shen

> The most annoying thing about that for me is we never see either Jason or Damian actually acknowledge the fact that they both kinda tied with Talia. Even though Talia as Jason's resurrecter is as iconic as Talia as Damian's mom.


In a way, she's like a mother to them both. It would be great to see them talk to each other about their experiences with her. The only time in my recent memory, where their relationship was acknowledged by the other is when Damian thought Jason was Leviathan.

----------


## Astralabius

> I think that if we are going to recall the bad we should also recall the good.
> 
> Supersons, Superman, Metal, Nightwing, Deathstroke v Batman, neck even GA gave us some great caring Batdad before King wrote him as the worst.
> 
> I feel that Percy did Bruce dirty by making him forget Damian's birthday for feels. It wasn't needed and it didn't feel right coming off of the place they were at following the new 52.
> 
> Bruce moving heaven and earth to bring Damian back and then going to him once he got his memory back in RSOB. To only bring Bruce in on TT to shit on him isn't right. King shit on Bruce and the family but he also gave us Bat burger and his run had the Button [not penned by him] where Bruce told his other dad about Damian.
> 
> Glass we know was mandated so Bruce not having eyes on Damian was necessary for Damian's fall.
> ...


I think what you have to consider in most of the books you listed is that those nice moments I think you're referring to were Bruce talking with other characters about Damian and not actual interactions with Damian. That's a difference. If someone is nice behind my back but not nice to me when I talk to them then that is not a good relationship.
In Super Sons we get a direct comparison between Bruce and Clark and it does not look good for Bruce.

Bruce didn't actually talk to Damian in the Bat Burger scene, he adressed them as a group.
The Batman issue where Bruce talks to Thomas was mainly written by Williamson and once again, it was Bruce saying those things to Thomas, not to Damian.
The only thing Bruce said to Damian and just Damian in King's run was Bruce telling him he and the others don't make him happy.

I know DC has no interest in batdad, but that doesn't mean I can't call Bruce a bad father because of it. I'm not asking for much, I just want Bruce to take basic responsibility for the child he brought back to life. Which we will finally get in Robin, at least it sounds like it.

The Alfred situation is so funny to me. Or frustrating. I don't know. Like, they published the story in which Alfred died.
And then they immediately tried their hardest not to talk about how it happened and why.

New 52 Bruce was a decent father and it seems like Infinite Frontier Bruce might be one once again.
But Rebirth Bruce? Sorry, but no. You have to do more than put your hand on your sons shoulder a few times to count as a decent father, at least in my book.

----------


## Astralabius

> Talia hasn't had that many lovers till King turned her into a Orgy Queen.
> 
> Yep we can add Bane to that long list.


And even if she did, kinda feels like slutshaming. I don't see people make the same kind of jokes about Bruce whose list is way longer.

----------


## Light of Justice

> In a way, she's like a mother to them both. It would be great to see them talk to each other about their experiences with her. The only time in my recent memory, where their relationship was acknowledged by the other is when Damian thought Jason was Leviathan.


Ugh, don't remind me of that story. 
Time for brainwashing.
meme batman.jpg

----------


## Light of Justice

> I think what you have to consider in most of the books you listed is that those nice moments I think you're referring to were Bruce talking with other characters about Damian and not actual interactions with Damian. That's a difference. *If someone is nice behind my back but not nice to me when I talk to them then that is not a good relationship.*
> In Super Sons we get a direct comparison between Bruce and Clark and it does not look good for Bruce.
> 
> Bruce didn't actually talk to Damian in the Bat Burger scene, he adressed them as a group.
> The Batman issue where Bruce talks to Thomas was mainly written by Williamson and once again, it was Bruce saying those things to Thomas, not to Damian.
> The only thing Bruce said to Damian and just Damian in King's run was Bruce telling him he and the others don't make him happy.
> 
> I know DC has no interest in batdad, but that doesn't mean I can't call Bruce a bad father because of it. I'm not asking for much, I just want Bruce to take basic responsibility for the child he brought back to life. Which we will finally get in Robin, at least it sounds like it.
> 
> ...


Sadly, this kind of trope is often glorified on media, even though I'm pretty sure if that thing happens in real life, only resulted on massive headache.
About caring batdad on GA, does it means when Bruce asked Ollie to look over his son, then Ollie said that Bruce doesn't understand a damn about his own son?

----------


## Astralabius

> Sadly, this kind of trope is often glorified on media, even though I'm pretty sure if that thing happens in real life, only resulted on massive headache.
> About caring batdad on GA, does it means when Bruce asked Ollie to look over his son, then Ollie said that Bruce doesn't understand a damn about his own son?


I think what those talks Bruce had with other characters about Damian in the Rebirth era prove is that Bruce loves Damian. I'm not saying he doesn't.
But love alone does not make a good parent and in the case of Rebirth Bruce that love is not reflected in his parenting. He says he loves Damian and cares for him, but we don't see him spending time with him as father and son, he doesn't even do much when Damian choses to not come home anymore and to stop talking to him.

If you want a storyline that is all about a kid slowly turning into a villain you can't expect people not to ask themselves why the father isn't doing anything about it and get mad when they conclude that Bruce failed as a parent.
If DC didn't want that then they shouldn't have tried to turn Damian evil in the first place.

----------


## Lucas 35

> “Special Delivery” – Master of None writer Aniz Ansari makes his comic book debut with artist Sami Basri in this story featuring Robin (Damian Wayne). As Robin ponders about his heritage, he slowly discovers that something about this pizza place seems off…


Is anyone else nervous about this story? The people know that Damian is not arab or muslim, right? Ra's is descended from Chinese nomads (or is he from Central Asia or Japan? but not arab) and Talia's mother is white (or mixed race, she's Arab and Chinese?)

----------


## Blue22

> Is anyone else nervous about this story? The people know that Damian is not arab or muslim, right? Ra's is descended from Chinese nomads (or is he from Central Asia or Japan? but not arab) and Talia's mother is white (or mixed race, she's Arab and Chinese?)


I wouldn't say nervous but I am...curious. We've seen before (especially in recent years) that Damian does occasionally embrace his Middle Eastern heritage. And the Chinese side has always seemed to be...mostly ignored by just about all the Al-Ghuls. So I'm definitely wondering what direction they're going in with this.

----------


## adrikito

> No, I'm 99% percent sure this is Bruce as Batman. The page is supposed to be a little introduction for new readers who don't know Damian yet and Damian's brand is being the son of Batman. Williamson said something along the lines of "Son of Batman, Talia is his mom. He was in the Super Sons and Teen Titans. He had a falling out with Batman" when he talked about this page.
> Considering that this whole situation was mainly caused by his problems with Bruce it makes more sense to focus on that.
> 
> Not directly a response to your comment, more like something your post reminded me of, but I'm always a bit confused when I see huge fans of Dick as Batman and Damian as his Robin talk about the current situation as if Dick is the knight in shining armor who will rescue Damian the second he learns about Damian having gone rogue or being missing.



OK. Is Batman.

I did not saw any signal of the TT... Only him attacking Batman.

Grayson is more important in his life than Superkid.. He has been with him for Years. Surprised that he did not appeared here as nightwing...




> When he gets a note from Damian asking him to mentor his former Teen Titans team he talks badly about Damian and does not try to find Damian.


How sad. Fortunately I did not saw this.

Never said that Damian is his responsability.. Despite I am surprised to learn this watching how worried was Damian for him when Dick lost his memory even wanting revenge against KGBeast. Dick reaction is the opposite to what I was expecting.  :Frown: 

It bothers me that they make Superkid more important than Damian mentor here.. The rest of old characters here(excluding those related with Slade&Flatline) are from the BATWORLD.

----------


## Eckri

Another DC festival of heroes story with Damian in it.

“What’s in the Box?” – Cassandra Cain steps into the spotlight once more, but this time with Colin Wilkes, a.k.a. Abuse (who first appeared in Detective Comics #947, October 2008), courtesy of words and art by Dustin Nguyen. Abuse finds Batgirl sitting by a bridge, upset by a comment made by Damian Wayne.

Nice to see Collin back in the recent years. 

But Holy Batcow, Damian what did you say to Cass to get her all upset. 

They're definitely going to reconcile at the end, say sorry and be friends.

You know that makes me wonder, who's the people that Damian doesn't interact much in the Batfamily. He's interacted heavily with Alfred, Bruce, Dick, Tim, Steph, and Duke (Robin war counts right?). He rarely interacts with Babs and Cass.

----------


## Astralabius

> Is anyone else nervous about this story? The people know that Damian is not arab or muslim, right? Ra's is descended from Chinese nomads (or is he from Central Asia or Japan? but not arab) and Talia's mother is white (or mixed race, she's Arab and Chinese?)


Both Talia and Ra's are kinda weird mixes of arab and chinese. Talia's mother wasn't white, she was also mixed chinese and arab like Ra's. The odds for all of that are not high, but it's canon.

So Damian is 1/2 white, 1/4 chinese and 1/4 arab. You're right that he's not muslim though.

----------


## Astralabius

> OK. Is Batman.
> 
> I did not saw any signal of the TT... Only him attacking Batman.
> 
> Grayson is more important in his life than Superkid.. He has been with him for Years. Surprised that he did not appeared here as nightwing...
> 
> 
> 
> How sad. Fortunately I did not saw this.
> ...


Jon has been more important in Damian's stories in recent years than Dick and him and Dick being Batman and Robin together ended a decade ago.
If you just want to get people up to speed you can skip it, it's not relevant to where Damian is right now.
That are his parents, these were the last two major books he was in, now he quit all of that and is in this book.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Another DC festival of heroes story with Damian in it.
> 
> “What’s in the Box?” – Cassandra Cain steps into the spotlight once more, but this time with Colin Wilkes, a.k.a. Abuse (who first appeared in Detective Comics #947, October 2008), courtesy of words and art by Dustin Nguyen. Abuse finds Batgirl sitting by a bridge, upset by a comment made by Damian Wayne.
> 
> Nice to see Collin back in the recent years. 
> 
> But Holy Batcow, Damian what did you say to Cass to get her all upset. 
> 
> They're definitely going to reconcile at the end, say sorry and be friends.
> ...


I think Babs has the rarest interaction with Damian. At least for Cass we have Gates of Gotham.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Jon has been more important in Damian's stories in recent years than Dick and him and Dick being Batman and Robin together ended a decade ago.
> If you just want to get people up to speed you can skip it, it's not relevant to where Damian is right now.
> That are his parents, these were the last two major books he was in, now he quit all of that and is in this book.


While I don't hate Supersons like the other person, I kinda understand their point. The book is called Robin and the star is Damian. Although already a decade ago, who gave Robin title to Damian? Dick. I think it's quite strange to not have Dick on a panel that was supposed to summarize Damian's journey.

----------


## Astralabius

> While I don't hate Supersons like the other person, I kinda understand their point. The book is called Robin and the star is Damian. Although already a decade ago, who gave Robin title to Damian? Dick. I think it's quite strange to not have Dick on a panel that was supposed to summarize Damian's journey.


It doesn't summarize his journey. It gets new people up to speed about where he is now, so recent events.
Dick didn't play a role in this.

----------


## Light of Justice

> It doesn't summarize his journey. It gets new people up to speed about where he is now, so recent events.
> Dick didn't play a role in this.



Literally only Damian punching Batman is the recent event. The other is clearly Damian and Bruce's first met, which is way earlier that Dickbats. Without Dick and Damian's picture, people can easily be mistaken as if Bruce is the one who took him in and made him Robin.
Also Jon didn't play a role in Damian's recent development just like Dick. At least Dick is one of factors Damian felt angry at Bruce and almost stepped over the no-killing rule, Damian almost killed KGBeast for Dick and included his amnesia accident as one of Bruce's failures.

----------


## Astralabius

> Literally only Damian punching Batman is the recent event. The other is clearly Damian and Bruce's first met, which is way earlier that Dickbats. Without Dick and Damian's picture, people can easily be mistaken as if Bruce is the one who took him in and made him Robin.
> Also Jon didn't play a role in Damian's recent development just like Dick. At least Dick is one of factors Damian felt angry at Bruce and almost stepped over the no-killing rule, Damian almost killed KGBeast for Dick and included his amnesia accident as one of Bruce's failures.


I already explained this. The page is supposed to get you up to speed to where he is now.
He's the son of Batman, so you have a flashback to that arc.
His two most recent books have been Super Sons and Teen Titans. That is just a fact.
Dick being Batman for one year and making him Robin is not important for this book. It doesn't matter.
Yeah, they made Damian angry about Dick getting shot over a year after it happened. And then promptly forgot about it again and made it all about Damian being sad about Alfred.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I already explained this. The page is supposed to get you up to speed to where he is now.
> He's the son of Batman, so you have a flashback to that arc.
> His two most recent books have been Super Sons and Teen Titans. That is just a fact.
> *Dick being Batman for one year and making him Robin is not important for this book. It doesn't matter.*
> Yeah, they made Damian angry about Dick getting shot over a year after it happened. And then promptly forgot about it again and made it all about Damian being sad about Alfred.


The point is it should. This book is literally called Robin not Son of Batman. For me, it truly matters that Dick should get acknowledged as the person who gave him Robin title. And since they use the punch scene, it can be noted that while Tomasi's arc made it all about Alfred, one of the reasons Damian punched Bruce is that Bruce failed to stop Dick's shooting incident. Just like I said, people who don't know anything about Damian and look at that panel, it shows as if Damian got Robin title from Bruce. For some people maybe the fact that Dick is the one who gave Damian Robin title is not important as long as Damian is Robin, but you can't blame Dickbats Damian fans to frown at the lack of that scene in a panel that supposed to explain Damian as Robin.

----------


## Astralabius

> The point is it should. This book is literally called Robin not Son of Batman. For me, it truly matters that Dick should get acknowledged as the person who gave him Robin title. And since they use the punch scene, it can be noted that while Tomasi's arc made it all about Alfred, one of the reasons Damian punched Bruce is that Bruce failed to stop Dick's shooting incident. Just like I said, people who don't know anything about Damian and look at that panel, it shows as if Damian got Robin title from Bruce. For some people maybe the fact that Dick is the one who gave Damian Robin title is not important as long as Damian is Robin, but you can't blame Dickbats Damian fans to frown at the lack of that scene in a panel that supposed to explain Damian as Robin.


If you want to be mad about this fine. I don't think including Dick in this is necessary. For me this happened a decade ago and has basically nothing to do with where Damian is now.
This a page explaining who Damian is and where he recently showed up in.
Bye.

----------


## Light of Justice

> If you want to be mad about this fine. I don't think including Dick in this is necessary. *For me this happened a decade ago and has basically nothing to do with where Damian is now.*
> This a page explaining *who Damian is* and where he recently showed up in.
> Bye.


I GREATLY disagree with that point and who is Damian on that book? Robin. 
But well, I see that we have different point of view. 

By the way, have this thread posted about potential Ra's interaction with Damian? I don't know how to think about it, for me problem between Ra's and Damian is beyond Ra's doomed the world in an attempt to save it, and he wanted Damian to be his (another) successor. Ra's literally wanted to take over Damian's body in Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul.

----------


## Godlike13

They have a point, Dick is why Damian is Robin. So to say he has nothing to do with where Damian is now isn’t really true as long as he’s still called Robin. Its why he’s called Robin, it’s why he was on TTs, etc, etc. Even just on the basis that Robin is Dick’s legacy there’s relevance. But that image just leans on that Damian is Batman’s son, and that Damian’s now rejecting Batman, but really what Damian is now also doing is rejecting continuing to follow what Dick did.

----------


## Rac7d*

> The point is it should. This book is literally called Robin not Son of Batman. For me, it truly matters that Dick should get acknowledged as the person who gave him Robin title. And since they use the punch scene, it can be noted that while Tomasi's arc made it all about Alfred, one of the reasons Damian punched Bruce is that Bruce failed to stop Dick's shooting incident. Just like I said, people who don't know anything about Damian and look at that panel, it shows as if Damian got Robin title from Bruce. For some people maybe the fact that Dick is the one who gave Damian Robin title is not important as long as Damian is Robin, but you can't blame Dickbats Damian fans to frown at the lack of that scene in a panel that supposed to explain Damian as Robin.


I agree, give it time I’m sure it will come up

----------


## CPSparkles

Yeah Dick should have been on the cover. Bruce is his dad but Dick is the one who took him in, made him family, gave him Robin and showed him that there's such a thing as unconditional love.

Dick is the one who acts more like a care giver and adult in charge. it's a shame that DC put on Jon and not Dick. I hope that Williamson understands the importance of Dick to Damian cos I want to see some interaction in this series.

----------


## Eckri

So anyone here have any thoughts on the DCRoundRobin, the one with the most votes on a comic idea gets to be a comic series. 
One of them is titled Robins - 
Here's the description:
 A small group meets at Dick Grayson's apartment. But what's brought them here isn't that they're all former sidekicks of Batman: They're being hunted by one claiming to be the first.

A book with all four robins in it, neat. So I'm guessing it's going to be like a TMNT style, like Leonardo is Dick, Michelangelo is Damian, Raphael is Jason, and Donatello is Tim.

----------


## Rac7d*

> So anyone here have any thoughts on the DCRoundRobin, the one with the most votes on a comic idea gets to be a comic series. 
> One of them is titled Robins - 
> Here's the description:
>  A small group meets at Dick Grayson's apartment. But what's brought them here isn't that they're all former sidekicks of Batman: They're being hunted by one claiming to be the first.
> 
> A book with all four robins in it, neat. So I'm guessing it's going to be like a TMNT style, like Leonardo is Dick, Michelangelo is Damian, Raphael is Jason, and Donatello is Tim.


Or it just a bunch of leftovers from the we are Robin book

----------


## Shen

> So anyone here have any thoughts on the DCRoundRobin, the one with the most votes on a comic idea gets to be a comic series. 
> One of them is titled Robins - 
> Here's the description:
>  A small group meets at Dick Grayson's apartment. But what's brought them here isn't that they're all former sidekicks of Batman: They're being hunted by one claiming to be the first.
> 
> A book with all four robins in it, neat. So I'm guessing it's going to be like a TMNT style, like Leonardo is Dick, *Michelangelo is Damian*, Raphael is Jason, and Donatello is Tim.


Idk about that. I'd say Steph was more like Mikey than the rest. Damian is basically Karai (also one of splinters kids).

----------


## Shen

https://youtu.be/kXhN7wUXOj4

You've probably seen this before, but this is just further proof that a Supersons animated show would be perfect  :Big Grin:

----------


## Lucas 35

> Or it just a bunch of leftovers from the we are Robin book


No

----------


## Blue22

> https://youtu.be/kXhN7wUXOj4
> 
> You've probably seen this before, but this is just further proof that a Supersons animated show would be perfect



"You sounds like a mouse whose parachute won't open"

Almost four years later and that still never fails to make me laugh XD




> Idk about that. I'd say Steph was more like Mikey than the rest. Damian is basically Karai (also one of splinters kids).


Yeah. Damian pretty much always gets paired with Mikey because they're both the youngest. And I get that. But if we're including all five Robins and all five of Splinter's kids (depending on the continuity) then he's definitely channeling 2012 Karai.

Though if Damian was the Mikey then I guess Steph would be April since she's the only one who's not Splinter/Bruce's kid and gets paired up with the team's nerd lol

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

Damian's more like Ralph. Jason outside of anything related to the Joker is like Mikey.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Damian's more like Ralph. Jason outside of anything related to the Joker is like Mikey.


Jason is more like Casey

----------


## Fergus

> So anyone here have any thoughts on the DCRoundRobin, the one with the most votes on a comic idea gets to be a comic series. 
> One of them is titled Robins - 
> Here's the description:
>  A small group meets at Dick Grayson's apartment. But what's brought them here isn't that they're all former sidekicks of Batman: They're being hunted by one claiming to be the first.
> 
> A book with all four robins in it, neat. So I'm guessing it's going to be like a TMNT style, like Leonardo is Dick, Michelangelo is Damian, Raphael is Jason, and Donatello is Tim.


Yeah at 1st I wasn't on board but with Seeley revealed as the writer I'm liking this more and more.

He seems to be able to manage the 4 Robins without having it turn into a TMNT parody.

Damian isn't mickey. He's more Raphael.

----------


## Fergus

So found out the scan of Damian swinging while eating corn isn't from the Asian Anthology. It's from another yet to be announced project. Wonder what it's gonna be.

----------


## adrikito

> Jon has been more important in Damian's stories in recent years than Dick and him and Dick being Batman and Robin together ended a decade ago.


Unfortunately I noticed about it these years.. Leave Supersons watching it as a bad comic for Damian was not enough..

Many people developed certain Homo Love for them that I even avoid see Damian fanarts(people makes +18 years images with them.. Even in Deviantart).. Anyway Damian is a teen probably the saddest thing here is that this crazy people makes PORN with a 10 years kid.  :EEK!: 


I can even consider Superkid the reason because I am less active. This topic was my favorite one..But I can´t stand people love for Supersons when this comic ridicules Damian many times and created that Ship.


*Anyway. I am sorry. I did not said it to want problems with anybody. Only that piss me how important considers DC their friendship when Grayson was the Best that happened in Damian life.*




> While I don't hate Supersons like the other person, I kinda understand their point. The book is called Robin and the star is Damian. Although already a decade ago, who gave Robin title to Damian? Dick. I think it's quite strange to not have Dick on a panel that was supposed to summarize Damian's journey.


You are right about it.. Dick was the First Robin. 

This comic is called Robin. Then even New People needs to understand how Robin role was introduced in comics and who gave this role to Damian.




> Yeah Dick should have been on the cover. Bruce is his dad but Dick is the one who took him in, made him family, gave him Robin and showed him that there's such a thing as unconditional love.
> 
> Dick is the one who acts more like a care giver and adult in charge. it's a shame that DC put on Jon and not Dick. I hope that Williamson understands the importance of Dick to Damian cos I want to see some interaction in this series.


Yeah. You are right in that... Anyway this is what saddens me the most



> Dick knew Damian was going rogue before he got shot in the head,* but his only response was "Damian's choices are his own and will have to wait for the time being"*
> When Dick got his memory back he didn't ask where Damian was, he didn't comment on his absence in Joker War either. When Bruce told them all what happened Dick wasn't shown to have a different reaction from the rest.
> When he gets a note from Damian asking him to mentor his former Teen Titans team he talks badly about Damian and does not try to find Damian.


REALLY? DC makes Damian worry about Dick during the last months and Dick does not care about Damian and even talks bad about him? HOW SAD.  :Mad:

----------


## Fergus

Dick should have been the one in that panel not Jon. 

Jon and Damian have a great Dynamic but he isn't a character that has added anything standout/ unique to Damian's journey thus far.

He isn't even his 1st friend [like some seem to claim] Sure the Supersons is a modern Bromance that is beloved by fans and it's refreshing seeing Damian be more like a kid with Jon but he shouldn't have been the one on that page.

I love the SSons but for a while there it seemed that fans couldn't mention Jon without mentioning Damian/mention Damian's behaviour without mentioning Jon.

They were becoming a tag team and I for one was glad to see that nipped in the bud. This could bring that back. Reminding fans if you will.

Jon's age up was a blessing for Damian in a way. He was in danger of Super Sons becoming the thing that fans think of when they think Damian Wayne.

Damian was and is a lot more than Supersons.

Dick Grayson should have been the one in that panel.

Supersons fans can be very vocal and have been looking at the state of Williamson and Gleb's twitter.

Jon being the one in that panel could be pandering/prompted by their MANY requests.

----------


## Shen

> Many people developed certain Homo Love for them that I even avoid see Damian fanarts(people makes +18 years images with them.. Even in Deviantart).. Anyway probably the saddest thing here is that this crazy people makes PORN with a 10 years kid.


Yeeeeaaaahhh, that's the problem though. We live in a society where people can say and do almost anything. It is pretty weird that people want them to be an item, I mean they're literally just kids, but fans will be fans - some of them like projecting into their favourite characters. 
You think that Damian and Jon are bad? ScienceBros (Tony Stark and Bruce Banner) is a thing for shippers, as well as (Thor and Loki). 

What you're doing is right though, just ignore it.

----------


## Shen

> Dick should have been the one in that panel not Jon. 
> 
> Jon and Damian have a great Dynamic but he isn't a character that has added anything standout/ unique to Damian's journey thus far.
> 
> He isn't even his 1st friend [like some seem to claim] Sure the Supersons is a modern Bromance that is beloved by fans and it's refreshing seeing Damian be more like a kid with Jon but he shouldn't have been the one on that page.
> 
> I love the SSons but for a while there it seemed that fans couldn't mention Jon without mentioning Damian/mention Damian's behaviour without mentioning Jon.
> 
> They were becoming a tag team and I for one was glad to see that nipped in the bud. This could bring that back. Reminding fans if you will.
> ...


Agree with every point.

I'm sure they'll address this in future, because Dick was/is a big part of what makes Damian who he is. So this one page could be a sacrifice, maybe later we'll see a lot more of Grayson.

I mean, we know he'll show up when the batfam are searching for Dami. I just want to see his reaction when that happens - then I'll judge.

----------


## adrikito

> Yeeeeaaaahhh, that's the problem though. We live in a society where people can say and do almost anything. It is pretty weird that people want them to be an item, I mean they're literally just kids, but fans will be fans - some of them like projecting into their favourite characters. 
> You think that Damian and Jon are bad? ScienceBros (Tony Stark and Bruce Banner) is a thing for shippers, as well as (Thor and Loki). 
> 
> What you're doing is right though, just ignore it.


Hulk and Iron Man.. It scares me just think in them like that..

Even Thor and Loki have this kind of fanatics?? They are not brothers?

I think that ROBIN comic will tempt me again to see more Damian fanarts... When more I see him with his new costume(that appeared in Robin 1 preview) more I like it. 

Anyway. Fortunately I block in deviantart those that I think that take this Supersons ship too seriously. I do not care about them kissing but when the thing turns in something more extreme I prefer not see the artist images anymore.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Yeeeeaaaahhh, that's the problem though. We live in a society where people can say and do almost anything. It is pretty weird that people want them to be an item, I mean they're literally just kids, but fans will be fans - some of them like projecting into their favourite characters. 
> You think that Damian and Jon are bad? ScienceBros (Tony Stark and Bruce Banner) is a thing for shippers, as well as (Thor and Loki). 
> 
> What you're doing is right though, just ignore it.


Funny thing is, the first time I knew about Damian and Jon is from a comic strip about them having accidental kissing and it gets recorded + broadcasted. But I didn't ship them in the slightest, the comic strip just made me know that Batman and Superman have sons and apparently they're friends. Then after I searched about them, I got hooked more with Damian and Dickbats (and honestly didn't care much about Jon).
Maybe that's why I didn't pay any thought to those kinds of artists and fanfic writers, even though their creations truly far from my taste. Like you said, just ignore them. Skip or even block their accounts if necessary. Berates them for their own contents will just do more harm than good.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Hulk and Iron Man.. It scares me just think in them like that..
> 
> *Even Thor and Loki have this kind of fanatics?? They are not brothers?*
> 
> I think that ROBIN comic will tempt me again to see more Damian fanarts... When more I see him with his new costume(that appeared in Robin 1 preview) more I like it. 
> 
> Anyway. Fortunately I block in deviantart those that I think that take this Supersons ship too seriously. I do not care about them kissing but when the thing turns in something more extreme I prefer not see the artist images anymore.


When I watched Avenger 1 long time ago and searched fanfics about it, Thor/Loki fanfics are like the most popular, second only to Steve/Tony. Interesting thing is, both of pairings have hostile relationship on that film. Truly dunno how fangirls like them think, the more hostile they are with each other, the more they shipped them. Something about "sexual tension", when I just saw "tension" between the pairings.

----------


## Light of Justice

> So found out the scan of Damian swinging while eating corn isn't from the Asian Anthology. It's from another yet to be announced project. Wonder what it's gonna be.


Another Damian project? It's amazing, I can't wait! Btw, with Challenge of Supersons still gets published, potential mini about Robins with him on his casual Robin costume, and that upcoming project with Damian still on that costume, maybe Damian will get back his casual Robin status quo earlier than expected.

----------


## Fergus

Tim and Jarro are the casual Robins. Damian is the official Robin. That has never change since he gained that title during his early introduction.

DC has attempted to change to favour the whims of 'insert current entitled person who welds power because they are making DC a decent amount/has the most connections' twice now that we are aware of.

Those two attempt were blocked/thwarted.

Hopeful those behind the scenes will just knock it off and just let Damian be Robin without replacements,  outdated models, obsolete models looking for a place to be packed or lookalikes/ limited edition alien alternatives snapping at his heels.

----------


## Restingvoice

Snikt

----------


## Shen

> Snikt


He really should keep his claws, coz it looks soo good! I've always liked the idea.

Dick's the flippy bro
Jay's the shooty bro
Tim's the Sticky(?) bro
And Dami's the stabby bro.

----------


## Shen

> Tim and Jarro are the casual Robins. Damian is the official Robin. That has never change since he gained that title during his early introduction.
> 
> DC has attempted to change to favour the whims of 'insert current entitled person who welds power because they are making DC a decent amount/has the most connections' twice now that we are aware of.
> 
> Those two attempt were blocked/thwarted.
> 
> Hopeful those behind the scenes will just knock it off and just let Damian be Robin without replacements,  outdated models, obsolete models looking for a place to be packed or lookalikes/ limited edition alien alternatives snapping at his heels.


As much as I love Jarro, it always annoyed me that DC made Bruce be able to raise an Alien Starfish better than he raised his actual son.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Snikt


A fashion ICON
The ninja drip

----------


## Rac7d*

> He really should keep his claws, coz it looks soo good! I've always liked the idea.
> 
> Dick's the flippy bro
> Jay's the shooty bro
> Tim's the Sticky(?) bro
> And Dami's the stabby bro.


Their just batarangs when he can’t use his swords

----------


## Shen

Odd, I remember them being claws once. I know Percy's Teen Titans had him use the batarangs like that, but I swear there was a comic where they were actual retractable claws. I think it was when they tried to recruit Emiko the first time. Though you're right, these look more like Batarangs.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Snikt


"this is Damian's tournament suit basically

it's easier to fight in it

he'll add that domino mask later, just for a cool look

also, he'll wear different variations of it, depending on weather or just his mood"

- Gleb

----------


## adrikito

> Snikt


Fanart or from ROBIN?

Between his appearance and dressed like this he looks like DAMIAN BEYOND son.  :Wink:

----------


## Light of Justice

> Odd, I remember them being claws once. I know Percy's Teen Titans had him use the batarangs like that, but I swear there was a comic where they were actual retractable claws. I think it was when they tried to recruit Emiko the first time. Though you're right, these look more like Batarangs.




You're right




> "this is Damian's tournament suit basically
> 
> it's easier to fight in it
> 
> he'll add that domino mask later, just for a cool look
> 
> also, he'll wear different variations of it, depending on weather or just his mood"
> 
> - Gleb


Truly interesting! Not that I say it's silly (I like this costume than the other one), but really refreshing to see how something like silly hero costume was made from teenager's point of view, instead of 30 something grown man.




> Fanart or from ROBIN?
> 
> Between his appearance and dressed like this he looks like DAMIAN BEYOND son.


From Robin's official artist, so it will definitely be included in Robin book.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> Hulk and Iron Man.. It scares me just think in them like that..
> 
> Even Thor and Loki have this kind of fanatics?? They are not brothers?
> 
> I think that ROBIN comic will tempt me again to see more Damian fanarts... When more I see him with his new costume(that appeared in Robin 1 preview) more I like it. 
> 
> Anyway. Fortunately I block in deviantart those that I think that take this Supersons ship too seriously. I do not care about them kissing but when the thing turns in something more extreme I prefer not see the artist images anymore.


Don't you know the rules to these things? They always put the characters with the strongest relationship, regardless if it's hateful, platonic or romantic one.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Hulk and Iron Man.. It scares me just think in them like that..
> 
> Even Thor and Loki have this kind of fanatics?? They are not brothers?
> 
> I think that ROBIN comic will tempt me again to see more Damian fanarts... When more I see him with his new costume(that appeared in Robin 1 preview) more I like it. 
> 
> Anyway. Fortunately I block in deviantart those that I think that take this Supersons ship too seriously. I do not care about them kissing but when the thing turns in something more extreme I prefer not see the artist images anymore.


Dude. There are fanships of characters that have no business being such outside of Jon and Damian. There's Goku and Vegeta, Goku and Vados (they've barely been in the same scene, let alone interacted), Dean and Sam Winchester from Supernatural (they're brothers, and have actually had episodes that include such things, strangely enough), Yang and Ruby from RWBY despite being sisters, and then there's the truly disturbing ones. The ones I know of tend to involve Dragon Ball characters, but I have no doubts that there are many more out there.

----------


## Shen

> *The ones I know of tend to involve Dragon Ball characters*, but I have no doubts that there are many more out there.


Oh god, do you remember when the DB fandom went insane and started shipping Goku with Caulifla because they smiled at each other? Seriously, shippers will find a small moment, a single second of contact between characters - and lose control of their bodily fluids.

----------


## Arsenal

> 


Clearly that's just a set up for a future Marvel/DC crossover: Damian, Son of Wolverine. ''

----------


## Fergus

Dick Grayson's Design for Damian's Suit. from Batman's Files



I find this so cute and heart warming.
Dick can draw and he designed Damian's Robin uniform.

----------


## Fergus

> Clearly that's just a set up for a future Marvel/DC crossover: Damian, Son of Wolverine. ''


I would read the crap out of that book.

Wonder how short he'll be in this cross over

----------


## sifighter

So I’m going to be safe on this based on a new Bleedingcool article and post this in spoilers, read at your own risk of course as fair warning.

*spoilers:*
 So how long do you think it’s going to be until we see Damian take on Bane’s daughter?

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/scoo...r-the-joker-2/ 


*end of spoilers*

----------


## Rac7d*

> You're right
> 
> 
> Truly interesting! Not that I say it's silly (I like this costume than the other one), but really refreshing to see how something like silly hero costume was made from teenager's point of view, instead of 30 something grown man.
> 
> 
> 
> From Robin's official artist, so it will definitely be included in Robin book.


i hate how their friendship  was ruined

----------


## Shen

> i hate how their friendship  was ruined


I know right? I know Dami thought of them as Allies first, but when he visited her in hospital after she was shot, I thought - hey, this could be the start of a good frienship for him. 

Then Teen Titans happened, and we gradually saw their relationship degrade. To top it all off, they had to draw Dami hurting her as he lost control. 

And don't get me started on their respective romances.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Oh god, do you remember when the DB fandom went insane and started shipping Goku with Caulifla because they smiled at each other? Seriously, shippers will find a small moment, a single second of contact between characters - and lose control of their bodily fluids.


Yep. One of the few advantages of little Dragon Ball content for a couple of years.

But I've ran across some that have characters like Nappa shipped with Sailor Moon characters, and pure DB ones where Goku is shipped with freakin' Bra!

----------


## Shen

> But I've ran across some that have characters like Nappa shipped with Sailor Moon characters, and pure DB ones where *Goku is shipped with freakin' Bra!*


I have... no words...

Except, _WhAt Is WrOnG wItTh SoMe PeOpLe??_

----------


## Fergus

> So Im going to be safe on this based on a new Bleedingcool article and post this in spoilers, read at your own risk of course as fair warning.
> 
> *spoilers:*
>  So how long do you think its going to be until we see Damian take on Banes daughter?
> 
> https://bleedingcool.com/comics/scoo...r-the-joker-2/ 
> 
> 
> *end of spoilers*



*spoilers:*
 The current writers at DC seem to be very gimmicky so we might actually see it that happen. 

I swear the number of notifications that pop up on my dash from DcNation and DC writers is insane. It's like they are constantly on social media.

so we might get to see Damian attempt to break the daughter's neck or back.

She's look's tall so Damian might need to get creative  :Stick Out Tongue: 

Vengeance for Bruce and Alfred. 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Fergus

> i hate how their friendship  was ruined


Another casualty of Glass.

I had high hopes for this friendship and the whole team lineup at first. I really liked that line up.
What a waste.

DC's most diverse TT team to date and that group had to be one that they had to villainize and make into arseholes.

Good job DC. That line up had so much potential. Now DC's scrambling making big showy PR pushes trying to show how inclusive and diverse they are . 

They had a team with Damian, Emiko, Wallce, Crush, Djinn and RH. Every single member was a member of a group that could do with positive representation since all those  groups are under represented. What did we get;

A part middle Eastern who straps bombs to themselves and threatens to blow himself up

A violent, short tempered lesbian who acted like she had a chip on her shoulder and constantly physically assaulted a male team mate

An Asian nerd into tech who was out for vengeance

A black boy who is decent guy but went along with the team's activates

A Bi-sexual manipulator who attempted to seduce the Team leader, played a big role in the criminal activities that went on and then somehow managed to play the victim because she had the short tempered lesbian wrapped around her finger.

All negative with some very real and harmful stereotypes tossed in.

There was so much potential. So much that could have been done with such a group but they choose to use them to show how Damian was unsuitable for the Robin mantle.
Made them the most unlikable, shitty and unheroic characters who in the end turned out to be cowards who were apparently scared of a 4 foot teen.

This turned into a rant.
I guess I had some stuff i needed to get off my chest about that TT run.

----------


## Restingvoice

> So I’m going to be safe on this based on a new Bleedingcool article and post this in spoilers, read at your own risk of course as fair warning.
> 
> *spoilers:*
>  So how long do you think it’s going to be until we see Damian take on Bane’s daughter?
> 
> https://bleedingcool.com/comics/scoo...r-the-joker-2/ 
> 
> 
> *end of spoilers*


I'm sorry how old is everyone right now

----------


## CPSparkles

> I'm sorry how old is everyone right now


Not sure but Damian's gonna be 14 when Robin starts.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Another casualty of Glass.
> 
> I had high hopes for this friendship and the whole team lineup at first. I really liked that line up.
> What a waste.
> 
> DC's most diverse TT team to date and that group had to be one that they had to villainize and make into arseholes.
> 
> Good job DC. That line up had so much potential. Now DC's scrambling making big showy PR pushes trying to show how inclusive and diverse they are . 
> 
> ...


You should know by now that Dc doesn't care about representation. They care about money.

I never considered the fact that Damian's TT team didn't include one actual Caucasian member.

What an odd choice to draft up such a team when you have been tasked to create a team that fails fails at being heroes. Glass is himself of Jewish descent so you'd think he'd be more mindful

Buttttt ........  the 2 biggest baddies in the team had middle Eastern connections. An Al ghul and a Jinn.

Djinn defo tried to develop a romantic relationship with Damian while not doing a lot to discourage Crush from wooing her.

She never actually confirmed whether she felt an attraction to Crush. I know Crush kissed her and had feeling for her but not sure how she felt about Crush.
I do recall her confessing her feeling for Damian and making moves on him. She kissed him, I remember that but did he ever feel the same?

Also Crush had a girlfriend all this time! What a tangled web.

Worse still is they left us hanging. Did Damian reject Djinn?
Did Crush manage to woo Djinn?
Did Damian break Djinn's heart?
Did Crush get over her jealousy?
Did Damian ever figure out how to use words when a girl confesses her love?
Is Damian really some Machiavellian uber charismatic Don Juan who played them all?

----------


## Shen

Djinn was never my favorite character, hell I even liked RH more than I liked her. She just felt like an empty character to me.

Also, the part where she couldn't free herself from her ring, and then found out she was able to, only if she tried? Yeeaah, I know they were trying to finish the run ASAP (Coz it was trash, easily my number 2 just Below King's Batman.), but that was just BS.

Damian acted soo OOC in front of her at times, I had to re-read the page. Remember when he jumped on an explosive for her? That's why I thought she was manipulating him all along. She even went kinda psycho when Emi confronted her.

Oh god, then there's Emi and her beacon of hope. I think her and Lace would be good friends - but not a couple. Their story was a bit too rushed to be believable. 

I am kinda biased tho, coz I like the idea of Avery and Lace.

----------


## adrikito

> So I’m going to be safe on this based on a new Bleedingcool article and post this in spoilers, read at your own risk of course as fair warning.
> 
> *spoilers:*
>  So how long do you think it’s going to be until we see Damian take on Bane’s daughter?
> 
> https://bleedingcool.com/comics/scoo...r-the-joker-2/ 
> 
> 
> *end of spoilers*


WTFFFFFF... Really? I was not expecting learn this from BANE..

----------


## Restingvoice

Oh gosh I just remember that Bane did bang someone 
I just don't remember who. It was in Gail Simone's Secret Six. 
(Too late in the timeline if we're talking about at least a teenager though.)

----------


## adrikito

> Oh gosh I just remember that Bane did bang someone 
> I just don't remember who. It was in Gail Simone's Secret Six. 
> (Too late in the timeline if we're talking about at least a teenager though.)


I saw Joker 1 today.. I wonder if she is that Blonde Girl that we saw wanting Gordon to kill the Joker.. It would make sense. Gordon even said that is younger than Barbara and she said that the mansion does not belong to her.

Her hair looks Black in Joker 2 cover?? She can be using a wig here. At least I would think that Bane daughter is beautiful if is this girl.

joker1.jpg

----------


## Blue22

> A Bi-sexual manipulator who attempted to seduce the Team leader, played a big role in the criminal activities that went on and then somehow managed to play the victim because she had the short tempered lesbian wrapped around her finger.


I think that's kind of an unfair assessment of Djinn. I never really got the sense that she was trying to seduce/manipulate anyone. Save for that one scene where Roundhouse literally forced her to. Whatever she and Damian felt for each other was definitely mutual and, unless I'm remembering wrong, neither of them acted on it until the moment where they almost kissed. And then everything snowballed out of control from there and they grew apart before things could go further. As for Crush, I also don't get the sense that she was intentionally misleading or manipulating her either. All I saw was a girl who deeply cared about two people and didn't really know what to do.

Now her playing the victim and pinning everything on Damian. That IS a valid complaint. Though it's one that the whole team is kinda guilty of. All of them sucked but they were more than willing to throw Damian under the bus as if he was the only problem child in that group. Really the entirety of Djinn's arc was a mess but that ending where she blames Damian for everything and then peaces out was definitely the icing on the shit cake. I still think she and Emiko are the best characters in that run (and the only two who didn't consistently get on my nerves). But damn if they didn't fuck up her departure.

There's a lot to rant and rave about in Glass' Tians but I actually think Djinn was handled wonderfully until the very end. The only qualm that I have about her "will them/won't they" with both Damian and Crush is her age. It's that same messy subject that I've seen a lot in anime too. Where one half of a ship is underage and the other half *looks* underage, so it's often shrugged off by fans.

----------


## adrikito

> There's a lot to rant and rave about in Glass' Tians but I actually think Djinn was handled wonderfully until the very end. The only qualm that I have about her "will them/won't they" with both Damian and Crush is her age. It's that same messy subject that I've seen a lot in anime too. Where one half of a ship is underage and the other half *looks* underage, so it's often shrugged off by fans.


I think the same.. She was my favorite.

Glass favorite the Roundhouse was who disliked me since the begin and even more after he turned crazy from some issues and attacked his companions.

I don´t care too much about Crush neither.. DJINN was the only *new character* that I wanted to see after this TT run.

----------


## Blue22

Yeah I pretty much hated Roundhouse from day 1 and my feelings on him never changed. In fact they only got worse since he was the catalyst for Djinn leaving. I warmed up to Wallace some but I still *highly* dislike him. So it's no wonder those two ended up being best friends.

Crush is...a mixed bag. When she doesn't have Djinn on the brain I actually like her. She hasn't been anywhere near as insufferable since Djinn left...but like....I'm still kinda salty that my favorite character leaving was what made Crush better lol

----------


## adrikito

> Yeah I pretty much hated Roundhouse from day 1 and my feelings on him never changed. In fact they only got worse since he was the catalyst for Djinn leaving.


I forgot it after all this time.. I thought that it was only her brother fault..

Anyway.. This is a thing of the past.. Like Damian and Maya days in RBSOB.. 

ROBIN comic is the present and we should focus in it. After the comics starts this month.

----------


## Restingvoice

> I saw Joker 1 today.. I wonder if she is that Blonde Girl that we saw wanting Gordon to kill the Joker.. It would make sense. Gordon even said that is younger than Barbara and she said that the mansion does not belong to her.
> 
> Her hair looks Black in Joker 2 cover?? She can be using a wig here. At least I would think that Bane daughter is beautiful if is this girl.
> 
> joker1.jpg


I haven't read it. Could be. I mean Bane doesn't appear often enough for us to know when he made a child. It could be any time. I think they meant for him and Bruce to be the same age, so her being younger than Barbara fits.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> So Im going to be safe on this based on a new Bleedingcool article and post this in spoilers, read at your own risk of course as fair warning.
> 
> *spoilers:*
>  So how long do you think its going to be until we see Damian take on Banes daughter?
> 
> https://bleedingcool.com/comics/scoo...r-the-joker-2/ 
> 
> 
> *end of spoilers*


That would be really interesting, but I imagine that this character will most likely be retained in the Joker book side of the DCU. But one day... I can hope.

----------


## adrikito

> I haven't read it. Could be. I mean Bane doesn't appear often enough for us to know when he made a child. It could be any time. I think they meant for him and Bruce to be the same age, so her being younger than Barbara fits.


Anyway probably she we will end like in ARKHAM KNIGHT case and we will see her ending as another villain and will not care about her anymore. Not everyone can be as lucky as Harley.

BANE is the real deal.

----------


## Blue22

Thought this was pretty funny XD

----------


## Shen

> Thought this was pretty funny XD


I remember seeing this recently, still makes me crack-up each time XD. 

Some of the older Batfam vines are pretty decent as well.

----------


## Shen

This one's also pretty funny

----------


## Jackalope89

> This one's also pretty funny


...Yeah, I'm Jason in that one.

----------


## Blue22

> This one's also pretty funny


HA! I'd like to believe they'd both do that just to fuck with Jason XD




> ...Yeah, I'm Jason in that one.


I wanna say I'm Jason but I know myself well enough to know that I'd be Dick and Damian lol

----------


## Restingvoice

is that from the channel that made Soup? Voices sound similar

----------


## Light of Justice

> is that from the channel that made Soup? Voices sound similar


the voice is taken from already existing vines, not from the creator.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

Gleb Melnikov keeps delivering when we need it the most!

----------


## CPSparkles

> Gleb Melnikov keeps delivering when we need it the most!


I'm a big fan of his Damian. April 27th can't get here soon enough. So hype.

----------


## adrikito

> Gleb Melnikov keeps delivering when we need it the most!


Cool image.  :Cool:

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> This one's also pretty funny


English accent is hard UuU)/

----------


## Jackalope89

> English accent is hard UuU)/


That's not even getting into all the various dialects.

----------


## Light of Justice

by @marcio_takara (twitter). Dunno for what project though, anyone knows the artist's current project?

----------


## Drako

> by @marcio_takara (twitter). Dunno for what project though, anyone knows the artist's current project?


It's a commission, he is working on this specific drawing for months now.

----------


## adrikito

> Unmasked Damian and Rose by Gleb Melnikov


WTF... I lost something important.. I was not expecting to see Damian expose his identity to Rose.

*Damian:* I am Robin. You want to know My Secret Identity?   :Wink:  :Stick Out Tongue: 


*2 WEEKS UNTIL THIS SERIE BEGIN. RIGHT? I want to start it.*

----------


## Astralabius

> WTF... I lost something important.. I was not expecting to see Damian expose his identity to Rose.
> 
> *Damian:* I am Robin. You want to know My Secret Identity?  
> 
> 
> *2 WEEKS UNTIL THIS SERIE BEGIN. RIGHT? I want to start it.*


Yep. 27.04.
A batman: black and wite story with Damian comes out on the same day.

----------


## adrikito

> by @marcio_takara (twitter). Dunno for what project though, anyone knows the artist's current project?


This is a fanart? This looks like STEPH BATGIRL..




> Yep. 27.04.
> A batman: black and wite story with Damian comes out on the same day.


THANKS

----------


## Rac7d*

> Unmasked Damian and Rose by Gleb Melnikov


Rose: So  Damian is your Older brother seeing anyone

Damián: tt what am I a matchmaker

----------


## Katana500

> Rose: So  Damian is your Older brother seeing anyone
> 
> Damián: tt what am I a matchmaker


hahahah I honestly would not be surpised if she says something like that.

I think Jason x Rose is a couple we will probably see become an established pairing sooner or later.

----------


## sifighter

> Rose: So  Damian is your Older brother seeing anyone
> 
> Damián: tt what am I a matchmaker


Alternatively- Damian: Which one are you talking about?

Rose: Any of the three will do? :Stick Out Tongue: 

It’s a bad joke but at this point since teen titans and rebirth and future state she’s had crushes on Dick, Jason, & Tim.

----------


## KrustyKid

> Alternatively- Damian: Which one are you talking about?
> 
> Rose: Any of the three will do?
> 
> Its a bad joke but at this point since teen titans and rebirth and future state shes had crushes on Dick, Jason, & Tim.


You make a great point, lol

----------


## Jackalope89

> hahahah I honestly would not be surpised if she says something like that.
> 
> I think Jason x Rose is a couple we will probably see become an established pairing sooner or later.


It was in Future State, though at times, they "acted" like it was more of a casual fling sort of deal.

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> hahahah I honestly would not be surpised if she says something like that.
> 
> I think Jason x Rose is a couple we will probably see become an established pairing sooner or later.


I honestly see that for Jason/Artemis. Jason and Rose just aren't as interesting so far.

----------


## Rac7d*

> It was in Future State, though at times, they "acted" like it was more of a casual fling sort of deal.


They were married in deceased

----------


## Shen

> Alternatively- Damian: Which one are you talking about?
> 
> Rose: Any of the three will do?
> 
> Its a bad joke but at this point since teen titans and rebirth and future state shes had crushes on Dick, Jason, & Tim.


'Damian turns 18'

Rose: So I hear you're legal now.

Damian: 😐 I need an adult

Rose: You are an adult 😈

XD 

I personally like the idea of Rose and Jay, they have great chemistry. Although, with Connor in this run we might see a new 'romance'.

----------


## Jackalope89

> They were married in deceased


Ah. Must have missed that one.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> That's not even getting into all the various dialects.


You got it (>^u^)>

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I honestly see that for Jason/Artemis. Jason and Rose just aren't as interesting so far.


I don't know about Rose and Jason, but I really liked him with Artemis </3

----------


## adrikito

> hahahah I honestly would not be surpised if she says something like that.
> 
> I think Jason x Rose is a couple we will probably see become an established pairing sooner or later.


I liked that idea too long time ago.. Now I prefer Jason with Artemis.




> 'Damian turns 18'
> 
> Rose: So I hear you're legal now.
> 
> Damian:  I need an adult
> 
> Rose: You are an adult 
> 
> XD


Hahahahahaha

----------


## Blue22

> I honestly see that for Jason/Artemis. Jason and Rose just aren't as interesting so far.


I've been* firmly* in the Rose/Bart camp since Geoff Johns' Teen Titans run. But their gap in age seems to be...uh...a lot wider now. So I'm cool with her being with Jason. I think he's better with Artemis. But I'm cool with Rose too.

----------


## Rac7d*

I am hearing rumors that Robin will be one of the bosses in Sucide Squad kill the justice league

----------


## Shen

> I am hearing rumors that Robin will be one of the bosses in Sucide Squad kill the justice league


If it's true, you know who's their favorite Robin to destroy in Videogame Media.

----------


## Janet wayne

NOOo why did they cancel Damian batman game and keep turning him into a villian  :Frown: 
Isn't he popular ?

----------


## CPSparkles

> NOOo why did they cancel Damian batman game and keep turning him into a villian 
> Isn't he popular ?


Not sure why they cancelled the Damian Game.
They make him a villain because they do that with all of them. Villain and anti heroes are very popular among the audience and gamers.

As for Damian's popularity, I don't have access to the kind of info those behind the scenes have but the fact that WB gaming considered making a Damian game seriously even for a minute indicates that Damian is very very popular.

DC has thousands of Characters that they could have considered for a game but they choose Damian.

Heck even the Robin in GK is clearly a renamed Damian model. They likely are obviously hoping to piggy back on the popularity of Injustice Robin [one of the games most popular mains]

DC always does the Robin turn evil thing.

----------


## CPSparkles

> If it's true, you know who's their favorite Robin to destroy in Videogame Media.


Yeah it's sad how in every video game Dc ruin's Tim. AK, not a main in Injustice and now he's pasted onto an obvious Damian model.

Robin as one of the Bosses in a game where Superman and the JL are the bosses. That would be a huge flex.

----------


## CPSparkles

> I am hearing rumors that Robin will be one of the bosses in Sucide Squad kill the justice league


Starro is the big bad in the SS movie and his son was also a Robin. Watch they be a appearance by Jarro.

----------


## Restingvoice

> I am hearing rumors that Robin will be one of the bosses in Sucide Squad kill the justice league


Just one? That's very generous in power ranking

Also I like how all of us have different idea on which Robin DC likes to ruin ^^ I was thinking Dick. When it comes to ability showcase I mean. Then I remember this is supposed to be the Arkhamverse so Dick would already be Nightwing.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Just one? That's very generous in power ranking
> 
> Also I like how all of us have different idea on which Robin DC likes to ruin ^^ I was thinking Dick. When it comes to ability showcase I mean. Then I remember this is supposed to be the Arkhamverse so Dick would already be Nightwing.


Dick being Robin bring the justice league to its earliest concept. A team that Amanda Waller would find a threat would have to be more then a couple years in. So the Robin partner choice would be Tim or Damian.  All of the justice league will be villains from the squads perspective

----------


## Light of Justice

Damian by Gleb Melnikov. Really like the fancy-gloves-ninja outfit, hope that it will have a long tenure.

----------


## Rac7d*

Is Shang chi like an adult Damian Wayne

----------


## Eckri

So Damian appeared in the recent Nightwing as a cameo in his new Robin outfit. 
I don't know if this confirms it, but it  might show that all the former robins are hanging out in the potential Robins comic series, which is nice.

----------


## Astralabius

> So Damian appeared in the recent Nightwing as a cameo in his new Robin outfit. 
> I don't know if this confirms it, but it  might show that all the former robins are hanging out in the potential Robins comic series, which is nice.


Do you mean the one in that poll you can vote in right now? Because that was promoted with an image where Damian is in his Rebirth suit. I feel like this book is set either at no certain point in time or in Rebirth.
Robin and Batman didn't sound like it was set in current contimuity either. I feel like if it was Tynion would know something about it.

According to Joshua Williamson Damian will be far away from the batfamily for the first arc of Robin (so eight issues) before his story will cross over with Batman probably at the end of 2021.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

At the end of today's Nightwing there's a little interview about Robin and it's great, as always.

----------


## Rac7d*

I wish the art in supersons was more consistent

----------


## Blue22

It seems like they only use that "backup" artist for the issues where the boys are in the past. Which I'm cool with since those have been the weakest parts of the story anyway lol

----------


## Rac7d*

> It seems like they only use that "backup" artist for the issues where the boys are in the past. Which I'm cool with since those have been the weakest parts of the story anyway lol


True, I can’t believe it’s almost over. I am buying the physicals too. I want a season 4.

----------


## Blue22

> True, I can’t believe it’s almost over. I am buying the physicals too. I want a season 4.


Same. I've subscribed to the book on comixology and if physicals are coming out I'll definitely buy them too. I do not want this to be the end. Especially since we've yet to get something quite as good as the first series. I feel like these guys do better with a collection of shorter arcs rather than one long story arc drawn out for 12-14 issues.

----------


## Astralabius

> Same. I've subscribed to the book on comixology and if physicals are coming out I'll definitely buy them too. I do not want this to be the end. Especially since we've yet to get something quite as good as the first series. I feel like these guys do better with a collection of shorter arcs rather than one long story arc drawn out for 12-14 issues.


Yeah, I loved the issues where they rescue the different members of the JL, but everything that was set in the past was kinda meh. I was also kinda disappointed that they didn't get to rescue Clark and Bruce.
Was there like a mandate for Adventures of the Super Sons and Challenge of the Super Sons that their father's arent't allowed to show up or something?

Shorter arcs and more interactions with the other established characters of the DC universe. That's what I would want from a new Super Sons series. The long arcs and the isolation from the rest of the world doesn't suit them.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Yeah, I loved the issues where they rescue the different members of the JL, but everything that was set in the past was kinda meh. I was also kinda disappointed that they didn't get to rescue Clark and Bruce.
> Was there like a mandate for Adventures of the Super Sons and Challenge of the Super Sons that their father's arent't allowed to show up or something?
> 
> Shorter arcs and more interactions with the other established characters of the DC universe. That's what I would want from a new Super Sons series. The long arcs and the isolation from the rest of the world doesn't suit them.


 I don’t think I care what they do or where they go, it’s just fun for them to work together. I really could watch 22 mins of this everyday

----------


## Hypo

https://twitter.com/TomTaylorMade/st...79976965578755

----------


## Morgoth

Pretty much expected, since Taylor is a huge fan of this duo.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Pretty much expected, since Taylor is a huge fan of this duo.


Good give the people what they want

----------


## Jackalope89

Taylor does like them, and has done both pretty well in his own series.

I still don't like fake Jon, and now being shoved into being Superman, is my issue. Like what Damian got, Jon needs a course correction too.

----------


## Astralabius

> Taylor does like them, and has done both pretty well in his own series.
> 
> I still don't like fake Jon, and now being shoved into being Superman, is my issue. Like what Damian got, Jon needs a course correction too.


I want to be excited like many others are, but I'm just not. I don't think this is the right direction for Jon.

----------


## dietrich

> At the end of today's Nightwing there's a little interview about Robin and it's great, as always.


Love the way Williamson describes Damian here. he's 100% correct. All signs indicate this book is going to be a delight.

----------


## dietrich

> Damian by Gleb Melnikov. Really like the fancy-gloves-ninja outfit, hope that it will have a long tenure.


Lo0ve the drip on out boy. Can't wait to see all of his outfits. Also liking how Williamson is making it clear that Damian is a super skilled bad ass can't wait to see it translated on the pages as well as  stylish Damian.

----------


## Restingvoice

"Wanted to assure all #Supersons fans (being one myself) their friendship will not be ignored in our #Superman series.
While Jon is older, they still have the same age gap - just flipped. Jon is 17. Damian is 14."
- Tom Taylor on Superman Son of Kal-El

This guy. What do you say to that? XD

----------


## Morgoth

https://twitter.com/Sampere_art/stat...68780469788677
Damian will appear in Action Comics #1030.

----------


## Blue22

> "Wanted to assure all #Supersons fans (being one myself) their friendship will not be ignored in our #Superman series.
> While Jon is older, they still have the same age gap - just flipped. Jon is 17. Damian is 14."
> - Tom Taylor on Superman Son of Kal-El
> 
> This guy. What do you say to that? XD


I say it's only one part of the much bigger problem that is Jon's age up. I love that they'll still be together (though I never doubted that they would be). But it's still....not the same.

----------


## sifighter

> https://twitter.com/Sampere_art/stat...68780469788677
> Damian will appear in Action Comics #1030.


See this I like, Jon reasonably looks like a teen and Damian is not ridiculously short compared to him. Now if Jon just had a better costume.

----------


## Light of Justice

> "Wanted to assure all #Supersons fans (being one myself) their friendship will not be ignored in our #Superman series.
> While Jon is older, they still have the same age gap - just flipped. Jon is 17. Damian is 14."
> - Tom Taylor on Superman Son of Kal-El
> 
> This guy. What do you say to that? XD


I don't really mind. Feels like the current dynamic is more mature than before. Their goofy days are maybe over, but we have to acknowledge that they have been through so much in the past 1 year.
The problem is, there are 2 pairs of Super-Bat teens now. I don't know how to twist it so neither pairing will feel redundant.

----------


## Astralabius

> "Wanted to assure all #Supersons fans (being one myself) their friendship will not be ignored in our #Superman series.
> While Jon is older, they still have the same age gap - just flipped. Jon is 17. Damian is 14."
> - Tom Taylor on Superman Son of Kal-El
> 
> This guy. What do you say to that? XD


What can I say. I stopped caring about main continuity Jon so I'm not interested in this. It doesn't fix the problems I have with Jon. The charm is gone.

----------


## Blue22

Pretty much. Again, it's Taylor and I'm sure it'll be great. He wrote them both so well in DCeased. But I don't really have a lot of interest in supporting this book.

----------


## Astralabius

> Pretty much. Again, it's Taylor and I'm sure it'll be great. He wrote them both so well in DCeased. But I don't really have a lot of interest in supporting this book.


At this point I feel like DC is trying really hard to tell us "See! Nothing changed! They are still friends! They are still the Super Sons you know and love!"...but it's just not true in my opinion.
Jon had so much potential and charm as a ten year old, I loved seeing Damian as a kind of mentor for Jon, but at the same time Damian also learned to be a bit more lighthearted around Jon.
It was simply fun. I wanted to see them grow up together.

Now Jon is almost an adult, he will take over as Superman and from his point of view he hang out with Damian seven years ago.
Since coming back Jon ditched Damian for the Legion, told Damian he has a dark future ahead, but didn't do anything about it and then he gave up on finding Damian after reading a note by him.
The magic is just not there anymore. I don't want to give them my money for this.

----------


## Blue22

There was never any doubt that they'd still be friends. But now...I dunno. I ain't all that invested in Jon anymore. He's damaged goods. They keep trying to patch up the damage but it's like using scotch tape to fix a broken vase. 

As far as Damian's friends go, I'd rather see what comes of Williamson's claims that Maya and Colin will be showing up. Those two never should have disappeared in the first place. And I'm still really surprised Maya was never even considered for either of Damian's Titans rosters. I mean, I'm glad she wasn't in Glass' run since that was hellbent on having Damian burn every bridge that he had. But I'm still surprised she wasn't even mentioned as a possible candidate either team




> At the end of today's Nightwing there's a little interview about Robin and it's great, as always.


I can not put into words how happy reading that makes me. Two of my four boys may be gone (Because who the fuck knows what's going on with Bart these days). But Damian really is back on track and I love it.

----------


## Rac7d*

> https://twitter.com/Sampere_art/stat...68780469788677
> Damian will appear in Action Comics #1030.


Yes someone gets it !

----------


## GhostCryptid13

Im happy that Jonll be interacting with Damian more, but like others have said it just isnt the same and its lost some of its charm IMO (I also wish Jon had a better costume but thats another story)

----------


## adrikito

> Damian by Gleb Melnikov. Really like the fancy-gloves-ninja outfit, hope that it will have a long tenure.


Hmmm... She was behind him and he noticed about it? 




> At the end of today's Nightwing there's a little interview about Robin and it's great, as always.


THANKS




> There was never any doubt that they'd still be friends. But now...I dunno. I ain't all that invested in Jon anymore. He's damaged goods. They keep trying to patch up the damage but it's like using scotch tape to fix a broken vase. 
> 
> As far as Damian's friends go, I'd rather see what comes of Williamson's claims that Maya and Colin will be showing up. Those two never should have disappeared in the first place.


I thought that I was the ONLY with problems with that SuperKid. Or is only that you Dislike what BENDIS made with him?


Yeah.. Last time that I saw Maya was before Gleason left.. Both Damian and Maya were unlucky when he left.

----------


## Rac7d*

> I’m happy that Jon’ll be interacting with Damian more, but like others have said it just isn’t the same and it’s lost some of its charm IMO (I also wish Jon had a better costume but that’s another story)


it isnt the same but , they cant just rewind time for him now, he has experienced to much as a teen now. I still hope for an animated series of Jon and Damián adventures as kids, but yes Bendis prematurely killed something so magical

----------


## Blue22

> Hmmm... She was behind him and he noticed about it? 
> 
> 
> 
> THANKS
> 
> 
> 
> I thought that I was the ONLY with problems with that SuperKid. Or is only that you Dislike what BENDIS made with him?
> ...


You're definitely not the only one who has problems with Jon. But I'm not one of those people. I love the kid. He's one of the characters who got me reading DC comics again. I just hate what he's become since Bendis' run. Even if they are taking steps to fix some the problem.

----------


## adrikito

> You're definitely not the only one who has problems with Jon. But I'm not one of those people. I love the kid. He's one of the characters who got me reading DC comics again. I just hate what he's become since Bendis' run. Even if they are taking steps to fix some the problem.


Bendis again.. In which comics is him now? To avoid them..

I lost interest in Superman comics for him. I even dislike his villains.

----------


## Blue22

> Bendis again.. In which comics is him now? To avoid them..
> 
> I lost interest in Superman comics for him. I even dislike his villains.


Currently his only book is Justice League. Which...actually isn't terrible so far. But my guard is still up.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Lo0ve the drip on out boy. Can't wait to see all of his outfits. Also liking how Williamson is making it clear that Damian is a super skilled bad ass can't wait to see it translated on the pages as well as  stylish Damian.


Damian is a Badass. Writers recently seem to forget that. He's been nerfed a lot since rebirth or he hasn't had many stand out fights/match ups so I welcome this Tournament.

I saw a post online of Damian's encounters with the Joker. wasn't aware they'd only interacted 3 times [thought it was more] anyway here how it goes

1, Beats him with a crowbar



2, Attempts to strangle him with his baby hands



2b, Stabs his foot with a Screw Driver

----------


## CPSparkles

And the third time Damian attempts to run him over 



We need Badass Damian back.

----------


## CPSparkles

> it isnt the same but , they cant just rewind time for him now, he has experienced to much as a teen now. I still hope for an animated series of Jon and Damián adventures as kids, but yes Bendis prematurely killed something so magical


Yeah, I've accepted there's no going back now. Jon is a teenager and Supersons in their OG form can only be in stories set on the past.

I have high hopes for Taylor's Superman and for the boys. They can still have their Bromance as we saw in DCeased..

The age gap between them is back to what it was.

----------


## Blue22

Yeah that's definitely the best way to take it but I just can't. The character is way to marred for me now. Like Bane. Or Charles Xavier. Or the Inhumans (Even after they've gone back to normal and that conflict with the X-Men ended, I still can't look at them the same)

I'm happy that Taylor is trying to preserve as much as old Jon as he can (especially his friendship with Damian. Though I never had any doubts about that). But my perception of him now is just...too damaged. The kid who helped me get back into comics and helped me become a fan of Superman was taken away, way too soon and now they keep plastering reminders of him onto a new guy. A new guy who could very well be a good character now that he's in the hands of a writer who knows what he's doing. But he still ain't my guy. He's not one of my four horsemen in my profile picture lol

Like...as a Super Sons fan, a pic like that should make me happy. But honestly, it just kinda hurts. Shit tugs right at my heart xD

----------


## Rac7d*

> Yeah that's definitely the best way to take it but I just can't. The character is way to marred for me now. Like Bane. Or Charles Xavier. Or the Inhumans (Even after they've gone back to normal and that conflict with the X-Men ended, I still can't look at them the same)
> 
> I'm happy that Taylor is trying to preserve as much as old Jon as he can (especially his friendship with Damian. Though I never had any doubts about that). But my perception of him now is just...too damaged. The kid who helped me get back into comics and helped me become a fan of Superman was taken away, way too soon and now they keep plastering reminders of him onto a new guy. A new guy who could very well be a good character now that he's in the hands of a writer who knows what he's doing. But he still ain't my guy. He's not one of my four horsemen in my profile picture lol
> 
> Like...as a Super Sons fan, a pic like that should make me happy. But honestly, it just kinda hurts. Shit tugs right at my heart xD


Have hope man

----------


## Jackalope89

> Yeah that's definitely the best way to take it but I just can't. The character is way to marred for me now. Like Bane. Or Charles Xavier. Or the Inhumans (Even after they've gone back to normal and that conflict with the X-Men ended, I still can't look at them the same)
> 
> I'm happy that Taylor is trying to preserve as much as old Jon as he can (especially his friendship with Damian. Though I never had any doubts about that). But my perception of him now is just...too damaged. The kid who helped me get back into comics and helped me become a fan of Superman was taken away, way too soon and now they keep plastering reminders of him onto a new guy. A new guy who could very well be a good character now that he's in the hands of a writer who knows what he's doing. But he still ain't my guy. He's not one of my four horsemen in my profile picture lol
> 
> Like...as a Super Sons fan, a pic like that should make me happy. But honestly, it just kinda hurts. Shit tugs right at my heart xD


Bendis marred the entire Super line for me (comics wise, at least) with how he did things. Even if Taylor writes Jon as a 10 year old in a 17 year old body, its too late for me. Taylor did a good Super Sons in DCeased, yes. But unless a number of things in the Super line change, I can't bring myself to read it anymore. Because it wasn't just Jon's character that was destroyed by Bendis.

----------


## GhostCryptid13

I’m holding out hope that the age up will be reversed in this Superman run. Probably at the end of it, if I were to guess. But I still want to see how they handle Jon’s interaction with Damian. The new Robin solo comes out next week right?

----------


## Digifiend

Double Damian in July, as not only is he in his own series, he's also starring in that month's issue of Truth and Justice!

Source: leaked solicits that have now been taken down.

----------


## Hypo

> Double Damian in July, as not only is he in his own series, he's also starring in that month's issue of Truth and Justice!
> 
> Source: leaked solicits that have now been taken down.






> Truth & Justice #6
> story by: ANDREW AYDIN
> pencils by: JUNI BA
> inks by: JUNI BA
> cover by: JUNI BA
> ON SALE 7/20/20
> $4.99 US | 40 PAGES | FC | DC
> 6 of 7
> variant cover by : DAMION SCOTT
> ...

----------


## Rac7d*

> 


Will Damian be captive most of it?

----------


## Astralabius

> 


Omg, Damian has a birthday and it is implied that Bruce is present for the celebration for once XD

----------


## Astralabius

> Will Damian be captive most of it?


Even if he is, it sounds like he's the main character and not just the Robin in distress while the reader mainly follows Bruce or something like that.

----------


## Astralabius

> Yeah, I've accepted there's no going back now. Jon is a teenager and Supersons in their OG form can only be in stories set on the past.
> 
> I have high hopes for Taylor's Superman and for the boys. They can still have their Bromance as we saw in DCeased..
> 
> The age gap between them is back to what it was.


Maybe I have to accept it, but hey, I don't have to buy it. And I honestly don't think I will.
DC has killed my interest in the Superman line and that's their problem.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Im holding out hope that the age up will be reversed in this Superman run. Probably at the end of it, if I were to guess. But I still want to see how they handle Jons interaction with Damian. The new Robin solo comes out next week right?


Yep it does.

I can't fault those who are still pissed off or who don't want to support aged up Jon or DC upholding the decision.

Dc took away something special. Killed something great while it was still in it's infancy and all for nothing [well because of the ego of their new writer. What about respect for Tomasi? ]

So I get it. I'm just done being angry plus I really enjoyed DCeased so if taylor brings that same energy to his Superman then this run should be great for Jon

----------


## CPSparkles

> Maybe I have to accept it, but hey, I don't have to buy it. And I honestly don't think I will.
> DC has killed my interest in the Superman line and that's their problem.


That's fair

----------


## garazza

> Robin #4
> story by: Joshua Williamson
> art by: Jorge Corona
> cover by: Gleb Melnikov
> ON SALE: 7/27/21
> $3.99 US | 32 PAGES | FC | DC
> variant cover by: Francis Manapul
> US $4.99 (card stock)
> 
> ...


Gleb's taking a break, but looks like Jorge Corona gets an issue. He did some issues of Challenge of the Super Sons and I loved him in Middlewest, so I'm excited.

I'm guessing the first two issues are preliminary rounds, the third is the beach episode, and this issue is a confrontation with the big bad before the next round begins. Very shonen, indeed.

And Rose gets a variant. That's cool.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Will Damian be captive most of it?


This is where that panel of Damian eating corn, texting and swinging through the skies came from so my guess is no.

He'll be getting into the action.

Yet another story where he's feeling the pull of his opposing Birth-rights  :Frown:  Still looking forward to it and Damian's birthday.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Gleb's taking a break, but looks like Jorge Corona gets an issue. He did some issues of Challenge of the Super Sons and I loved him in Middlewest, so I'm excited.
> 
> I'm guessing the first two issues are preliminary rounds, the third is the beach episode, and this issue is a confrontation with the big bad before the next round begins. Very shonen, indeed.
> 
> And Rose gets a variant. That's cool.


I swear Gleb is Outstanding. I love it.

It is very shonen. Rose looks breath taking.

I'm so curious about Respawn. 

he's outfit reminds me of Deathstroke but I've seen theories that it's another one of Damian's clones. I hope it isn't either

----------


## Restingvoice

> Omg, Damian has a birthday and it is implied that Bruce is present for the celebration for once XD


Isn't this book not canon or semi canon and that's why ^^

----------


## CPSparkles

I'm so Happy right now. Williamson on Damian: everything they release about the upcoming solo is hype worthy 

Taylor on Nightwing: has exceeded my expectations.

After Ric and Glass these characters deserve the love and attention they are currently getting. 

Taylor's Nightwing I'm plzed to see is doing very well sales wise [keeps selling out]

I hope the same will be the case for Williamson and Gleb's Robin. This is big for Damian

----------


## CPSparkles

> Isn't this book not canon or semi canon and that's why ^^


Party pooper  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Astralabius

> Isn't this book not canon or semi canon and that's why ^^


It's not canon, so yeah, that's probably it XD

----------


## Blue22

> https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/UwWUA2Lo2d97gdCxTSX7Gf-970-80.jpg
> https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/DD...Chf-970-80.jpg


Oh my God! These are perfection. Especially that Rose picture. Sparkles is right. The shounen is strong in these pics.

----------


## adrikito

*Batman Has Finally Realized He May Be DC's Worst Superhero*

https://screenrant.com/batman-realiz...ero-dc-comics/

LOL.. He finally Noticed that IN PART Damian was right.




> Truth & Justice #6
> story by: ANDREW AYDIN
> pencils by: JUNI BA
> inks by: JUNI BA
> cover by: JUNI BA
> ON SALE 7/20/20
> $4.99 US | 40 PAGES | FC | DC
> 6 of 7
> variant cover by : DAMION SCOTT
> ...


TRUTH AND JUSTICE??  :Confused:  

Wow. I thought that this time we would miss Damian BIRTHDAY. I was wrong. 

I think that the 14 years improved Damian appearance again  :Cool: (I had this opinion too when he made the 13 too)..

----------


## adrikito

> I'm guessing the first two issues are preliminary rounds, the third is the beach episode, and this issue is a confrontation with the big bad before the next round begins. Very shonen, indeed.
> 
> And Rose gets a variant. That's cool.


THANKS FOR THIS..

Wow. I was not expecting see one Damian&Ra´s image.. I like the Rose one too.




> It is very shonen. Rose looks breath taking.
> 
> I'm so curious about Respawn. 
> 
> *he's outfit reminds me of Deathstroke but I've seen theories that it's another one of Damian's clones.* I hope it isn't either


I do not want it Neither after Glass run..

Another reason(funny one) is that it would look like if Inside him Damian is a Deathstroke fan too.. hahahahaa

----------


## Shen

> Gleb's taking a break, but looks like Jorge Corona gets an issue. He did some issues of Challenge of the Super Sons and I loved him in Middlewest, so I'm excited.
> 
> I'm guessing the first two issues are preliminary rounds, the third is the beach episode, and this issue is a confrontation with the big bad before the next round begins. Very shonen, indeed.
> 
> And Rose gets a variant. That's cool.


'Shameless fanboy screaming in my doctor's office.' 

Things are just getting better and better. The first issue feels soo far away.

----------


## adrikito

> 'Shameless fanboy screaming in my doctor's office.' 
> 
> Things are just getting better and better. The first issue feels soo far away.


I hope that this comic is as good as we think..

----------


## Astralabius

> *Batman Has Finally Realized He May Be DC's Worst Superhero*
> 
> https://screenrant.com/batman-realiz...ero-dc-comics/
> 
> LOL.. He finally Noticed that IN PART Damian was right.
> 
> 
> 
> TRUTH AND JUSTICE??  
> ...


Neither Taylor's Batman book nor Truth and Justice is canon, so it's up to Williamson to decide if Bruce comments on missing yet another birthday and whether main continuity Bruce admits that Damian had a good reason to be upset.
But I'm still looking forward to reading a story about his birthday.

----------


## Astralabius

> I hope that this comic is as good as we think..


Williamson definitely seems to have the right idea when it comes to who Damian is, why people like him and what he needs right now.
Of course there is more to a good comic than that, but so far it sounds exactly like what a lot of us wanted for Damian.

----------


## adrikito

> Neither Taylor's Batman book nor Truth and Justice is canon, so it's up to Williamson to decide if Bruce comments on missing yet another birthday and whether main continuity Bruce admits that Damian had a good reason to be upset.
> But I'm still looking forward to reading a story about his birthday.


SO... We are not watching the Canon Damian 14th anniversary? How sad.. I looked like something canon..


Batman watching himself as a Failure?? I thought that it was TOO GOOD to be true.




> Williamson definitely seems to have the right idea when it comes to who Damian is, why people like him and what he needs right now.
> Of course there is more to a good comic than that, but so far it sounds exactly like what a lot of us wanted for Damian.


I hope that you are right and that Williamson is the "New Gleason". 

RSOB could had been longer according him but we were unlucky that time.. If I am not wrong Superkid was created that time and between Supersons and Gleason moving to Superman we never had the chance to see all what Gleason planned here.

I had Hopes in Glass before and we were unlucky even the most interesting character Djinn was the first in disappear.

----------


## Godlike13

So is Rose part of Robin’s supporting cast, cause if that is so that means we’d have 2 of Dick’s trainees in one book.

----------


## adrikito

*Lacking Teamwork*

A commission for :iconimk2015: who wanted to see Stephanie Brown and Damian Wayne, otherwise known as Spoiler and Robin respectively, tied up together. We decided on this situation where they were unable to stop Catwoman and were left tied up inside of an empty vault. 
Maybe next time they'll catch her 

Creator Note: I LOVED doing this picture. I wish more people asked for more DC Characters. 

Attachment 108847





> So is Rose part of Robin’s supporting cast, cause if that is so that means we’d have 2 of Dick’s trainees in one book.


I hope that is the case. I want Rose having some relevance in this comic.

Anyway. Maybe I should not worry about it.. I remember one image with Damian(no mask) and Rose here. It should be probably related with something that will happen in Robin.

----------


## Shen

> *Lacking Teamwork*
> 
> A commission for :iconimk2015: who wanted to see Stephanie Brown and Damian Wayne, otherwise known as Spoiler and Robin respectively, tied up together. We decided on this situation where they were unable to stop Catwoman and were left tied up inside of an empty vault. 
> Maybe next time they'll catch her 
> 
> Creator Note: I LOVED doing this picture. I wish more people asked for more DC Characters. 
> 
> Attachment 108847


I can already hear Damian telling Steph to stop padding her chest XD. This is very well done, reminds me of their back and forth when she was BG.

----------


## CPSparkles

> So is Rose part of Robin’s supporting cast, cause if that is so that means we’d have 2 of Dick’s trainees in one book.


I believe her and Connor have a bigger role in the series. So yeah we've got two of Dick's trainees in the same title.

----------


## Frontier

> Gleb's taking a break, but looks like Jorge Corona gets an issue. He did some issues of Challenge of the Super Sons and I loved him in Middlewest, so I'm excited.
> 
> I'm guessing the first two issues are preliminary rounds, the third is the beach episode, and this issue is a confrontation with the big bad before the next round begins. Very shonen, indeed.
> 
> And Rose gets a variant. That's cool.


Ra's looks like he's about to open up a can of whoop-@#$ on his grandson...

Oh, and Rose looks absolutely gorgeous  :Big Grin: .

----------


## adrikito

> I can already hear Damian telling Steph to stop padding her chest XD. This is very well done, reminds me of their back and forth when she was BG.


Hahahaha.. I still remember that scene about Her chest.. With Damian saying WHICH CHEST?

All this ROBIN images are teasing me. 

I WANT TO BE IN 27th of APRIL.. RIGHT NOW. Hahahaha. Fortunately we are closely to it.

----------


## CPSparkles

https://rowellcruzart.tumblr.com

----------


## garazza

> https://rowellcruzart.tumblr.com


I love Rowell's art. Maybe some day he can do a variant cover.

----------


## KrustyKid

> https://rowellcruzart.tumblr.com


That is so awesome, I love it

----------


## adrikito

> https://rowellcruzart.tumblr.com


Wow.. I think that I want this as Avatar.

Is a GREAT IMAGE.

----------


## Restingvoice

His little nose and lips
Adorable

----------


## Shen

Idk how to feel about the current SuperSons dynamic, but I came across this and it reminded me of the OG duo.

----------


## adrikito

> Idk how to feel about the current SuperSons dynamic, but I came across this and it reminded me of the OG duo.


That sounds BAD like if the things are now even worst than when I saw the original Supersons..

Anyway. Fortunately tomorrow ROBIN comic will start.

----------


## sifighter

You guys want to see a first issue preview? Of course you do!

https://aiptcomics.com/2021/04/26/dc-preview-robin-1-2/

----------


## Blue22

Awww. He remembered to take care of his pets before he left. That's my boy!  :Big Grin:

----------


## garazza

Three things that really interested me. One, all of Damian's pets on a farm. Seriously, it's so easy to address certain issues with just one good line and so few writers are capable of that. Good on Williamson.

Two, Tim's logo is obscured which I think is just the funniest thing ever. People were pissing themselves over the fact Tim was Robin again but the fact they pointed to was Joker War where he was referred to by all three of his names and it couldn't have been more clear that DC has no plan for Tim and not even Tynion, a self-professed Tim fanboy, could be bothered.

Three, Bruce, do you honestly think anything else except your chronic neglect of your child is the reason beyond his disappearance from your sphere of influence? lol

----------


## Shen

> You guys want to see a first issue preview? Of course you do!
> 
> https://aiptcomics.com/2021/04/26/dc-preview-robin-1-2/


Thanks for this. Seriously, 24 hours can't go by fast enough!

For some reason, this preview just made me wanna punch Bruce _really_ hard. Especially when he called Damian entitled(which he is, tbh) and made it seem like he demanded to be Robin.

Or Perhaps I'm reading _waaay_ into things.

----------


## Shen

> Bruce, do you honestly think anything else except your chronic neglect of your child is the reason beyond his disappearance from your sphere of influence? lol


Worlds Greatest Detective, except when it counts.

----------


## Pohzee

> Thanks for this. Seriously, 24 hours can't go by fast enough!
> 
> For some reason, this preview just made me wanna punch Bruce _really_ hard. Especially when he called Damian entitled(which he is, tbh) and made it seem like he demanded to be Robin.
> 
> Or Perhaps I'm reading _waaay_ into things.


Didn’t he?

----------


## garazza

> Thanks for this. Seriously, 24 hours can't go by fast enough!
> 
> For some reason, this preview just made me wanna punch Bruce _really_ hard. Especially when he called Damian entitled(which he is, tbh) and made it seem like he demanded to be Robin.
> 
> Or Perhaps I'm reading _waaay_ into things.


I was put off by Bruce's choice of words as well, because even though it isn't incorrect, it seemed more judgemental than it was descriptive or analytical.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> Thanks for this. Seriously, 24 hours can't go by fast enough!
> 
> For some reason, this preview just made me wanna punch Bruce _really_ hard. Especially when he called Damian entitled(which he is, tbh) and made it seem like he demanded to be Robin.
> 
> Or Perhaps I'm reading _waaay_ into things.


The short demon did both.

----------


## Blue22

> Thanks for this. Seriously, 24 hours can't go by fast enough!
> 
> For some reason, this preview just made me wanna punch Bruce _really_ hard. Especially when he called Damian entitled(which he is, tbh) and made it seem like he demanded to be Robin.
> 
> Or Perhaps I'm reading _waaay_ into things.


I mean...Damian, when he first started, was definitely an entitled brat who did demand the Robin title just as much as he demanded the title as Batman's heir. Bruce wasn't lying. 

My only issue is that they're still trying to make this about Alfred's death. As if Alfred wasn't still alive and well when Damian first started turning against Bruce. I hate how the events of King's run have somehow turned into a catalyst for Damian's behavior and not Bruce's overall lack of care for his own child.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> I mean...Damian, when he first started, was definitely an entitled brat who did demand the Robin title just as much as he demanded the title as Batman's heir. Bruce wasn't lying. 
> 
> My only issue is that they're still trying to make this about Alfred's death. As if Alfred wasn't still alive and well when Damian first started turning against Bruce. I hate how the events of King's run have somehow turned into a catalyst for Damian's behavior and not Bruce's overall lack of care for his own child.


The Teen Titans Annual confirms the little guy is mad because Dick got shot and Alfred got killed.

----------


## Blue22

> The Teen Titans Annual confirms the little guy is mad because Dick got shot and Alfred got killed.


Yep. That's where the bullshit got started. Again, this was* never* just about Alfred or Dick. That's just something they decided to run with once Thompson took over the book for some reason. To even imply that it all boils down Alfred dying and Dick not being around anymore (which had nothing to do with Bruce) does a huge disservice to the conflict that had been slowly brewing between those two since Rebirth began.

----------


## Astralabius

> I mean...Damian, when he first started, was definitely an entitled brat who did demand the Robin title just as much as he demanded the title as Batman's heir. Bruce wasn't lying. 
> 
> My only issue is that they're still trying to make this about Alfred's death. As if Alfred wasn't still alive and well when Damian first started turning against Bruce. I hate how the events of King's run have somehow turned into a catalyst for Damian's behavior and not Bruce's overall lack of care for his own child.


I still haven't forgiven DC for that awful TT issue where Alfred compares Damian to Ra's al Ghul. That is officially the last conversation between them that we know of before Alfred died.

But overall I'm mostly fine with using Alfred's death for this, I only wish DC was honest about it. As in: Aknowledging that Bruce sent Damian to Gotham and Damian didn't do anything Bruce hadn't ordered him to do, how fucked up Bruce's plan in City of Bane was (I could write a long rant about that plan), how Bruce failed to comfort Damian after Alfred's death and how Bruce (at least according to Tynion's run) actually did blame Damian for Alfred's death.

All of these things were published by DC and it annoys me that they are now acting like they didn't do that.
Bruce was an awful parent. They wrote him to be one. So what's so difficult about admitting it?

----------


## Astralabius

https://aiptcomics.com/2021/04/26/dc...black-white-5/

The preview for the Jorge Jimenez story in Batman: Black and White #5 with Bruce and Damian for the people that are interested.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> Yep. That's where the bullshit got started. Again, this was* never* just about Alfred or Dick. That's just something they decided to run with once Thompson took over the book for some reason. To even imply that it all boils down Alfred dying and Dick not being around anymore (which had nothing to do with Bruce) does a huge disservice to the conflict that had been slowly brewing between those two since Rebirth began.


Can't be mad at Williamson for preserving continuity with a developed conflict he inherited.

----------


## Morgoth

> My only issue is that they're still trying to make this about Alfred's death. As if Alfred wasn't still alive and well when Damian first started turning against Bruce. I hate how the events of King's run have somehow turned into a catalyst for Damian's behavior and not Bruce's overall lack of care for his own child.


They obviously want to completely forget Glass's run in terms of Damian storyline. They don't even mention prison, or Blood's murder, just that. So, it's probably just a retcon.

----------


## Astralabius

> I still haven't forgiven DC for that awful TT issue where Alfred compares Damian to Ra's al Ghul. That is officially the last conversation between them that we know of before Alfred died.
> 
> But overall I'm mostly fine with using Alfred's death for this, I only wish DC was honest about it. As in: Aknowledging that Bruce sent Damian to Gotham and Damian didn't do anything Bruce hadn't ordered him to do, how fucked up Bruce's plan in City of Bane was (I could write a long rant about that plan), how Bruce failed to comfort Damian after Alfred's death and how Bruce (at least according to Tynion's run) actually did blame Damian for Alfred's death.
> 
> All of these things were published by DC and it annoys me that they are now acting like they didn't do that.
> Bruce was an awful parent. They wrote him to be one. So what's so difficult about admitting it?


I know Bruce talks about Damian being angry at him because of Alfred and Bane, but what I'm missing is a clear aknowledgement that Damian is justfied for feeling that way because what Bruce did was seriously messed up.
Damian is often written to be angry without a good reason, I wish they would aknowledge that in this case it's different.

----------


## dietrich

> Didnt he?


He sure did and was told no. Shipped off with his mum, came to gotham on his own , started working as a hero, saved Batfamily members and then was given Robin.

Anyway Damian isn't the 1st Kid to barge in and demand/make a sales pitch for Robin. Unlike Tim Damian didn't get his demand's met within days.

Damian was already a hero and had resigned himself to the fact that Tim was Robin when he was given the mantle

Fans and Bruce are awfully forgetful or selective or just have different rules for different sidekicks

----------


## dietrich

has an illegal arse Jail under his living quarters, harassed Jason Todd, attempts to emotionally manipulate Todd, doesn't trust Todd, lies to his team mates. Ra's Al Ghul sounds an awful lot like Bruce Wayne.

Alfred convo with Damian coupled with his claims about bruce never having smiled in over 30+ yrs since his folks passed. Poor man was clearly suffering from dementia.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> He sure did and was told no. Shipped off with his mum, came to gotham on his own , started working as a hero, saved Batfamily members and then was given Robin.
> 
> Anyway Damian isn't the 1st Kid to barge in and demand/make a sales pitch for Robin. Unlike Tim Damian didn't get his demand's met within days.
> 
> Damian was already a hero and had resigned himself to the fact that Tim was Robin when he was given the mantle
> 
> Fans and Bruce are awfully forgetful or selective or just have different rules for different sidekicks


If we're talking about selective memory, you seem to have forgotten that Damian assaulted Tim with brass knuckles and beat him within an inch of his life, all because he wanted to be Robin, and brought a criminal's severed head into the Batcave as a trophy.

Tim Drake was much more deserving of the Robin mantle, Damian was just deemed by Dick to need it more.

----------


## Blue22

> has an illegal arse Jail under his living quarters, harassed Jason Todd, attempts to emotionally manipulate Todd, doesn't trust Todd, lies to his team mates. Ra's Al Ghul sounds an awful lot like Bruce Wayne.
> 
> Alfred convo with Damian coupled with his claims about bruce never having smiled in over 30+ yrs since his folks passed. Poor man was clearly suffering from dementia.


Bruh. I needed that laugh today. Especially that last bit. It's so fucking true XD

----------


## Astralabius

> If we're talking about selective memory, you seem to have forgotten that Damian assaulted Tim with brass knuckles and beat him within an inch of his life, all because he wanted to be Robin, and brought a criminal's severed head into the Batcave as a trophy.
> 
> Tim Drake was much more deserving of the Robin mantle, Damian was just deemed by Dick to need it more.


And Tim in turn assaulted Damian when he was only trying to help Alfred after he tripped, so badly that Damian cried out that Tim was killing him.
Don't act like Tim never tried to get revenge.
And Robin in Dick's and Jason's case was a tool meant to save the child. Tim didn't need saving. He's the outlier, not Damian.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> And Tim in turn assaulted Damian when he was only trying to help Alfred after he tripped, so badly that Damian cried out that Tim was killing him.
> Don't act like Tim never tried to get revenge.
> And Robin in Dick's and Jason's case was a tool meant to save the child. Tim didn't need saving. He's the outlier, not Damian.


The topic wasn't about Tim getting revenge, though he's completely justified to want payback on the little Brucey.

Never said Damian was an outlier, Tim just deserved it more. There's a difference between needing and deserving. Tim became Robin because Bruce needed it. He was a levelheaded kid with a sense of duty. Dick made Damian Robin because the kid needed it. He was a spoiled assassin who needed to mature into a hero.

----------


## dietrich

> If we're talking about selective memory, you seem to have forgotten that Damian assaulted Tim with brass knuckles and beat him within an inch of his life, all because he wanted to be Robin, and brought a criminal's severed head into the Batcave as a trophy.
> 
> Tim Drake was much more deserving of the Robin mantle, Damian was just deemed by Dick to need it more.


Robin is a mantle that was designed by Dick grayson when Batman took him in as a way to stop him falling down the dark path that bruce saw in Dick future that Night the grayson's died

Tim is the one Robin that didn't and has never deserved to be Robin since he doesn't meet any of the requirements. 

Robin was created by Dick. his actions are what gave the mantle value. His legacy is what all those that followed continued.

He defines and decides who is worthy not Bruce or anyone else.

Dick Grayson choose Damian so Damian  deserved at that moment more than Tim did and has ever done.

Robin is more than Batman's sidekick. batman's sidekick's don't have to be Robin's since he didn't create the mantle. It isn't his legacy.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> Robin is a mantle that was designed by Dick grayson when Batman took him in as a way to stop him falling down the dark path that bruce saw in Dick future that Night the grayson's died
> 
> Tim is the one Robin that didn't and has never deserved to be Robin since he doesn't meet any of the requirements. 
> 
> Robin was created by Dick. his actions are what gave the mantle value. His legacy is what all those that followed continued.
> 
> He defines and decides who is worthy not Bruce or anyone else.
> 
> Dick Grayson choose Damian so Damian  deserved at that moment more than Tim did and has ever done.
> ...


That's not the point. You tried to act like there was a double standard for Damian and that he resigned himself like a good little kid. He assaulted Tim when he found out he was Robin, tried to forcefully take the mantle, and was instead forced to wait his turn.

----------


## Frontier

> Robin is a mantle that was designed by Dick grayson when Batman took him in as a way to stop him falling down the dark path that bruce saw in Dick future that Night the grayson's died
> 
> Tim is the one Robin that didn't and has never deserved to be Robin since he doesn't meet any of the requirements. 
> 
> Robin was created by Dick. his actions are what gave the mantle value. His legacy is what all those that followed continued.
> 
> He defines and decides who is worthy not Bruce or anyone else.
> 
> Dick Grayson choose Damian so Damian  deserved at that moment more than Tim did and has ever done.
> ...


Okay, that's not fair to Tim, he more than earned being Robin and put the work in as much as anybody. Just because he didn't fulfill the requirements for when Dick and Jason became Robin doesn't make him less of a Robin. 

Dick just felt like, at the time he was becoming Batman, the best way to handle Damian was to make him Robin.

----------


## dietrich

> The topic wasn't about Tim getting revenge, though he's completely justified to want payback on the little Brucey.
> 
> Never said Damian was an outlier, Tim just deserved it more. There's a difference between needing and deserving. Tim became Robin because Bruce needed it. He was a levelheaded kid with a sense of duty. Dick made Damian Robin because the kid needed it. He was a spoiled assassin who needed to mature into a hero.


Tim wasn't in need of saving
Tim wasn't heading down a dark path 
Bruce needed a costumed Kid to be responsible for his mental health? Fine but that's not what the function of Robin is nor was it why the mantle was created in the 1st place. 

Robin has very well defined function when it was created.

----------


## Frontier

> Tim wasn't in need of saving
> Tim wasn't heading down a dark path 
> Bruce needed a costumed Kid to be responsible for his mental health? Fine but that's not what the function of Robin is nor was it why the mantle was created in the 1st place. 
> 
> Robin has very well defined function when it was created.


Isn't it fair to say the Robin mantle evolved over time?

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> Tim wasn't in need of saving
> Tim wasn't heading down a dark path 
> Bruce needed a costumed Kid to be responsible for his mental health? Fine but that's not what the function of Robin is nor was it why the mantle was created in the 1st place. 
> 
> Robin has very well defined function when it was created.


Yeah, Damian needed it. Tim just deserved it more.

Tim fit the notion that "Batman needs a Robin" which is a tribute to his sense of duty and inherent goodness. Damian is Jason Todd with even more angry issues and a tendency to act spoiled, which is why Dick took him in and made him into a hero.

----------


## garazza

To defend Tim, he recognized that Batman needs a Robin in order to balance and ground him. Tim actually tracked down Dick to try and convince him to become Robin again because Tim noticed Batman was getting reckless and sloppy after the death of Jason. He didn't desire being Robin, he simply recognized the need for a Robin, but he was the one that ultimately answered the call of duty, for lack of a better word, when the need arose.

The reason Dick made Damian Robin over Tim was two-fold. One, Damian needed guidance and what better guidance than under the wing of Dick's new role as Batman. Two, Dick and Tim's relationship is one of equals. They bonded as Nightwing and Robin, as brothers. By becoming Batman, Dick became the de facto patriarch of the Batfamily and keeping Tim as his Robin would've been disrespectful because the relationship between Batman, the superior, and Robin, the subordinate, is an inherently unequal one.

Damian, being brand new to the Batfamily, thought his rightful place was by Batman's side as his heir and that place comes in the form of the mantle of Robin. Damian was very narrow-minded when he was first introduced so he was unaware of the specific dynamics in the Batfamily. If Batman is the king, then Robin is the prince, and Damian in his mind was very much the next in line to his father's crown so he was simply taking his rightful place at his father's side.

----------


## dietrich

> Yeah, Damian needed it. Tim just deserved it more.
> 
> Tim fit the notion that "Batman needs a Robin" which is a tribute to his sense of duty and inherent goodness. Damian is Jason Todd with even more angry issues and a tendency to act spoiled.


None of that matters what matters is that the one who gets to decide who is deserving of continuing the his legacy is the one who created that legacy and that is Dick Grayson and he passed it onto Damian.

Bruce came back and he also saw and voiced what good work Dick and damian were doing as batman and Robin and he asked them to carry on.

And that is canon mate.

Bruce and the owner of Robin felt damian deserved it. heck even after he quit Bruce is still trying to get him to Robin.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> None of that matters what matters is that the one who gets to decide who is deserving of continuing the his legacy is the one who created that legacy and that is Dick Grayson and he passed it onto Damian.
> 
> Bruce came back and he also saw and voiced what good work Dick and damian were doing as batman and Robin and he asked them to carry on.
> 
> And that is canon mate.
> 
> Bruce and the owner of Robin felt damian deserved it. heck even after he quit Bruce is still trying to get him to Robin.


I see the problem, you're thinking I'm trying to say Damian shouldn't be Robin. No, Damian should be Robin. Tim just deserved the role more comparatively. Damian needed it more.

----------


## Frontier

> None of that matters what matters is that the one who gets to decide who is deserving of continuing the his legacy is the one who created that legacy and that is Dick Grayson and he passed it onto Damian.
> 
> Bruce came back and he also saw and voiced what good work Dick and damian were doing as batman and Robin and he asked them to carry on.
> 
> And that is canon mate.
> 
> Bruce and the owner of Robin felt damian deserved it. heck even after he quit Bruce is still trying to get him to Robin.


Bruce chose Jason but Dick eventually felt he could be Robin and didn't make too much of a stink of it. 

Tim wanted it to be Dick again but ended up doing it himself and eventually got the approval of both Dick and Bruce. 

I think Dick and Bruce both have valid say in who can be Robin.



> I see the problem, you're thinking I'm trying to say Damian shouldn't be Robin. No, Damian should be Robin. Tim just deserved the role more comparatively. Damian needed it more.


I mean, it's just two entirely different situations I don't think are worth comparing.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> I mean, it's just two entirely different situations I don't think are worth comparing.


Tell that to Bakugo. He did it first saying, "Unlike Tim Damian didn't get his demand's met within days." Which is, like... Yes, of course. Batman and Son details perfectly why his demands weren't met.

----------


## dietrich

> That's not the point. You tried to act like there was a double standard for Damian and that he resigned himself like a good little kid. He assaulted Tim when he found out he was Robin, tried to forcefully take the mantle, and was instead forced to wait his turn.


that is the point.

Plz don't try to tell me how I'm trying to act whatever that means. my comment simply agreed that Damian did demand Robin but I also reminded forgetful people that that's not why he got the mantle in the end.

The double standard bit is ref  he's not the 1st kid with moxy to barge in and tell Bruce how to run his operation.

----------


## Frontier

> Tell that to Bakugo. He did it first saying, "Unlike Tim Damian didn't get his demand's met within days." Which is, like... Yes, of course. Batman and Son details perfectly why his demands weren't met.


Does that make Tim Deku  :Stick Out Tongue: ? 



> that is the point.
> 
> Plz don't try to tell me how I'm trying to act whatever that means. my comment simply agreed that Damian did demand Robin but I also reminded forgetful people that that's not why he got the mantle in the end.
> 
> The double standard bit is ref  he's not the 1st kid with moxy to barge in and tell Bruce how to run his operation.


But that also doesn't justify Damian's behavior when he was first introduced.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> that is the point.
> 
> Plz don't try to tell me how I'm trying to act whatever that means. my comment simply agreed that Damian did demand Robin but I also reminded forgetful people that that's not why he got the mantle in the end.
> 
> The double standard bit is ref  he's not the 1st kid with moxy to barge in and tell Bruce how to run his operation.


There's no double standard, Damian assaulted Tim unprovoked and brought a severed head into the Batcave. Tim was just looking to help Dick go back to Robin! He didn't even want to join the operation.

----------


## Frontier

Every Robin has their own circumstances. It's what makes them unique.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> Every Robin has their own circumstances. It's what makes them unique.


Except the We Are Robin kids.

----------


## Frontier

> Except the We Are Robin kids.


Well, that's a whole 'nother can of worms...

----------


## dietrich

> Bruce chose Jason but Dick eventually felt he could be Robin and didn't make too much of a stink of it. 
> 
> Tim wanted it to be Dick again but ended up doing it himself and eventually got the approval of both Dick and Bruce. 
> 
> I think Dick and Bruce both have valid say in who can be Robin.
> 
> I mean, it's just two entirely different situations I don't think are worth comparing.


No Bruce and Dick don't have equal say in who gets to be Robin. Bruce gets to decide who his sidekick is. Dick Grayson gets to decide who carries his legacy.

Dick's actions like I said before are what made Robin the Hero that he is. Tim drake admired Robin and respects the role not because of Bruce but because of Dick Grayson and the good he did in the position. 100% Dick sweat, blood and hardwork

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> No Bruce and Dick don't have equal say in who gets to be Robin. Bruce gets to decide who his sidekick is. Dick Grayson gets to decide who carries his legacy.
> 
> Dick's actions like I said before are what made Robin the Hero that he is. Tim drake admired Robin and respects the role not because of Bruce but because of Dick Grayson and the good he did in the position. 100% Dick sweat, blood and hardwork


Haha, I see what you did there. Bruce does have equal say, though, he made Jason Robin.

----------


## Frontier

> No Bruce and Dick don't have equal say in who gets to be Robin. Bruce gets to decide who his sidekick is. Dick Grayson gets to decide who carries his legacy.
> 
> Dick's actions like I said before are what made Robin the Hero that he is. Tim drake admired Robin and respects the role not because of Bruce but because of Dick Grayson and the good he did in the position. 100% Dick sweat, blood and hardwork


I mean, both of those end up being Robin though. 

Dick set the precedent for what the mantle is meant to do that is carried by all the subsequent Robins, and every one of them have done justice to that mantle.

----------


## dietrich

> Well, that's a whole 'nother can of worms...


Alfred is a dangerous old man however I that Duke flat admits looking up to the legend the 1st Dick Grayson

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> I mean, both of those end up being Robin though. 
> 
> Dick set the precedent for what the mantle is meant to do that is carried by all the subsequent Robins, and every one of them have done justice to that mantle.


Jace Fox has more say than both of them. Lucius bought the trademark.

----------


## Frontier

> Jace Fox has more say than both of them. Lucius bought the trademark.


It all comes down to corporations  :Stick Out Tongue: .

----------


## dietrich

> I mean, both of those end up being Robin though. 
> 
> Dick set the precedent for what the mantle is meant to do that is carried by all the subsequent Robins, and every one of them have done justice to that mantle.


But Dick could have made a stink. I doubt that if Dick flat out rejected and made ot clear that he did not want Jason calling himself Robin that Bruce would have gone along. Jason would likely have just taken another name.

Everyone of them have done good work in the role but it is still Dick's legacy.

As illustrated in Bb where Matt was given the go ahead to be Robin but Dick put his down and retired the mantle after Joker attacked matt.

Bruce gave it and Dick took it away and Bruce accepted his decision.

----------


## Frontier

> But Dick could have made a stink. I doubt that if Dick flat out rejected and made ot clear that he did not want Jason calling himself Robin that Bruce would have gone along. Jason would likely have just taken another name.
> 
> Everyone of them have done good work in the role but it is still Dick's legacy.
> 
> As illustrated in Bb where Matt was given the go ahead to be Robin but Dick put his down and retired the mantle after Joker attacked matt.
> 
> Bruce gave it and Dick took it away and Bruce accepted his decision.


I mean, I think accepting Jason is Dick admitting Bruce some degree of control over making someone Robin, like how Bruce and Babs made Cass Batgirl.

I guess we've never seen an instance of them vehemently disagreeing over who Robin should be.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> It all comes down to corporations .


Damian's gonna be really disappointed when he finds out he can't live in a mansion anymore.

----------


## dietrich

> There's no double standard, Damian assaulted Tim unprovoked and brought a severed head into the Batcave. Tim was just looking to help Dick go back to Robin! He didn't even want to join the operation.


Damian brought a severed head with a grenade into the Batcave and I'm just going to highlight the comment that you ignored

t*The double standard bit is ref he's not the 1st kid with moxy to barge in and tell Bruce how to run his operation*

----------


## Frontier

> Damian's gonna be really disappointed when he finds out he can't live in a mansion anymore.


I think Damian can enjoy being a ronin...

----------


## dietrich

> Damian's gonna be really disappointed when he finds out he can't live in a mansion anymore.


Somehow I don't think that'll be a problem. Damian can deal with a Spartan lifestyle but if Gotham's made him go soft we've seen the kid donate 2 million to a shelter, pay Slade 5mil to F**k Off and stop hassling his travel companion.

He can buy his own mansion.

Surprised he didn't sell his private Island to save his father's finances.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> Damian brought a severed head with a grenade into the Batcave and I'm just going to highlight the comment that you ignored
> 
> t*The double standard bit is ref he's not the 1st kid with moxy to barge in and tell Bruce how to run his operation*


I didn't know we were calling attempted homicide moxy nowadays. You kids these days. Always inventing new slang!

----------


## dietrich

> I see the problem, you're thinking I'm trying to say Damian shouldn't be Robin. No, Damian should be Robin. Tim just deserved the role more comparatively. Damian needed it more.


No I get what you are saying. I'm just saying that you are wrong.

----------


## dietrich

> I didn't know we were calling attempted homicide moxy nowadays. You kids these days. Always inventing new slang!


Get with the Times  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> No I get what you are saying. I'm just saying that you are wrong.


I'm not, though, Damian didn't deserve to be Robin. That's why Dick had to make the choice and not Bruce. Like, saying the kid who tried to kill Tim Drake deserves to be Robin, in that moment, deserves to be Robin compared to the Tim Drake who tried to save Batman can be classified as the most obvious bias ever, dude.

----------


## Darkcrusade25

Hoping that tmrw’s AC 1030 has some good Super Sons interactions. Might be wrong in this but I think only Tomasi and Bendis have written Super Sons interactions so it’ll be interesting to see a new writer tackle the dynamic.

The age difference is the same again as it was in rebirth, but just flipped. But Damian still has way more experience than Jon and I’m hoping that’s enough to make the dynamic succeed. Idk how many super sons books they can cram in that short time between No justice and Bendis’ run

----------


## Rac7d*

> Hoping that tmrw’s AC 1030 has some good Super Sons interactions. Might be wrong in this but I think only Tomasi and Bendis have written Super Sons interactions so it’ll be interesting to see a new writer tackle the dynamic.
> 
> The age difference is the same again as it was in rebirth, but just flipped. But Damian still has way more experience than Jon and I’m hoping that’s enough to make the dynamic succeed. Idk how many super sons books they can cram in that short time between No justice and Bendis’ run


I'm not expecting that now, at least not so early  eventually

----------


## garazza

I don't know how Taylor can think that a reversed age gap is, in any way, amenable. Unless Damian demands Jon go therapy when he just casually mentions being tortured for seven years (because DC is really keen on never addressing the actual ramifications of that), nothing, no matter how "fanservice-y" Taylor writes, will ever come close to capturing what fans fell in love with without de-aging Jon.

----------


## KrustyKid

> But Dick could have made a stink. I doubt that if Dick flat out rejected and made ot clear that he did not want Jason calling himself Robin that Bruce would have gone along. Jason would likely have just taken another name.
> 
> Everyone of them have done good work in the role but it is still Dick's legacy.
> 
> As illustrated in Bb where Matt was given the go ahead to be Robin but Dick put his down and retired the mantle after Joker attacked matt.
> 
> Bruce gave it and Dick took it away and Bruce accepted his decision.


Bruce has just as much say(if not more) than Dick who should be Robin since it is 'his' partner. Robin is Batman's partner, not Nightwing's. Whether it be Jason, Tim, Steph, Damian, or even Carrie Kelly, Bruce should; and rightfully so should have the final say on who can be Robin. If he deems them unworthy, or not ready, he should be able to fire them without needing any say from Dick as well. On the flip side, Dick couldn't walk up to Damian from being Robin, especially if Bruce objects. In a scenario like that I'd imagine Damian would simply switch his name.

Way I see it, 'Robin' is still Batman's partner even if more solo these days. By virtue of that Batman should have top say who is Robin, Dick as the secondary judge.

----------


## Arsenal

Bruce absolutely has more say about who his partner should be, but Dick should be the one to give the “all clear” on whether said partner can be Robin. While there’s obviously a ton of overlap, it doesn’t mean they are necessarily one and the same anymore either.

----------


## KrustyKid

> Bruce absolutely has more say about who his partner should be, but Dick should be the one to give the “all clear” on whether said partner can be Robin. While there’s obviously a ton of overlap, it doesn’t mean they are necessarily one and the same anymore either.


For the most part they are. 'Robin' has been independent from Batman stemming from Dick's college days. Even still, one of the points of Robin at its core is Batman's partner. If Robin is not Batman's partner, then what is he/she? Robin (the mantle) even now is still Batman's partner in crime, nothing has yet to happen to break that establishment.

----------


## Shen

I'm still laughing at the fact that Superboy Prime called Dietrich 'Bakugou'. XD

And to be fair, he did warn Tim Drake not to mess with him - only bowstick boi and murder midget come from 2 different worlds. 

One is "Gee whiz Batman, I sure hope we catch the joker tonight." While the other is "You continue to exist at my sufferance, boy." 

It was like poking a bear that already growled at you. And when he did get the shit beat out of him, Tim and his fanboys were like 'Wait - this is illegal!' Apparently even still to this day.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> I'm still laughing at the fact that Superboy Prime called Dietrich 'Bakugou'. XD
> 
> And to be fair, he did warn Tim Drake not to mess with him - only bowstick boi and murder midget come from 2 different worlds. 
> 
> One is "Gee whiz Batman, I sure hope we catch the joker tonight." While the other is "You continue to exist at my sufferance, boy." 
> 
> It was like poking a bear that already growled at you. And when he did get the shit beat out of him, Tim and his fanboys were like 'Wait - this is illegal!' Apparently even still to this day.


Actually, in their first interaction Tim extended his hand for a handshake, which Damian ignored out of spite. And then, when he attacked Tim, he didn't do it because he was being "patronizing" he already came into the cave with the severed head and the explosive. He did it because he decided Bruce didn't need a Robin now that he was there.

----------


## Frontier

I mean, I don't think anyone should be defending how Damian acted when he first appeared (unless you really dislike Tim, but even objectively how he acted was not okay), but we're well past that point.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> I mean, I don't think anyone should be defending how Damian acted when he first appeared (unless you really dislike Tim, but even objectively how he acted was not okay), but we're well past that point.


Yeah, the point is that its indefensible. I like Damian, but I like him because he matured from that point.

----------


## garazza

> Yeah, the point is that its indefensible. I like Damian, but I like him because he matured from that point.


I think someone forgot to tell Adam Glass that.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> I think someone forgot to tell Adam Glass that.


Without Adam Glass we wouldn't be getting this Tournament arc, so I'd like to thank him.

----------


## Shen

> Actually, in their first interaction Tim extended his hand for a handshake, which Damian ignored out of spite. And then, when he attacked Tim, he didn't do it because he was being "patronizing" he already came into the cave with the severed head and the explosive. He did it because he decided Bruce didn't need a Robin now that he was there.


XD his fate was already sealed. Ah yes, the "on my world" handshake. I would have also assaulted him (verbally, I'm not gonna throw hands). I get he was trying to be funny, but he did come across as a bit of an annoying 'Dick' to anyone without the magic bowstaff of nostalgia jammed up their rectum (ie. Me at the time, I thought the scene was awesome). 

I'm not saying Damian was justified, definitely not - it's just that I can see why he wanted to break his face and/or punch him off a Dinosaur. I still wanna do that to Tim at times when I see what DC have done with him (like currently, just pick a name for God's sake).

Seriously though, Damian when he first showed up, was waay to intense and homicidal to be a character that was meant to stick around. He was originally disposable, so they made him unlikable and forgettable - unfortunately it worked against DC coz you had people like me rooting for the kid. 

I mean, he stole the Batmobile to impress a girl, I was sold.

----------


## Blue22

He was already striking out on his own well before Glass and Thompson sank their claws into him. There are a plenty of ways this arc could have still happened without the character assassination. Just like how Wally's current character arc could still happened without the stain on his history that is Heroes in Crisis. I'm not gonna be thankful for a bad idea just because some good ones came after it.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> XD his fate was already sealed. Ah yes, the "on my world" handshake. I would have also assaulted him (verbally, I'm not gonna throw hands). I get he was trying to be funny, but he did come across as a bit of an annoying 'Dick' to anyone without the magic bowstaff of nostalgia jammed up their rectum (ie. Me at the time, I thought the scene was awesome). 
> 
> I'm not saying Damian was justified, definitely not - it's just that I can see why he wanted to break his face and/or punch him off a Dinosaur.


So... You'd want to verbally assault Tim because... _You_ were the one to be rude?

----------


## adrikito

Someone in youtube called ROBIN 1 a GOOD START(He is even showing the comic):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5c9KOjLY3o

You remember that Damian image with a BOOK? It seems that is some kind of MANGA.

ok. is canon that Snake is Bane father. Maybe Damian misses Alfred even more than Bruce.

----------


## Shen

> So... You'd want to verbally assault Tim because... _You_ were the one to be rude?


No, no. I would verbally assault Tim for the way he approached someone he didn't know and acted like saying something funny would definitely be the best way to start a conversation with an unknown. At that point, he was basically trying to crack jokes with Ra's 2.0. 

I'd verbally assault Tim because _i_ found _him_ rude. I know some people can't imagine the mindsets of other's but just try putting yourself in a 10 year old killing machine's head when a guy like that comes along. You're not gonna laugh.

----------


## Shen

> Someone in youtube called ROBIN 1 a GOOD START(He is even showing the comic):
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5c9KOjLY3o


YaY, more current and entertaining things. Thanks bud  :Big Grin:

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> No, no. I would verbally assault Tim for the way he approached someone he didn't know and acted like saying something funny would definitely be the best way to start a conversation with an unknown. At that point, he was basically trying to crack jokes with Ra's 2.0. 
> 
> I'd verbally assault Tim because _i_ found _him_ rude. I know some people can't imagine the mindsets of other's but just try putting yourself in a 10 year old killing machine's head when a guy like that comes along. You're not gonna laugh.


Uh, so... Tim's rude because... When Damian ignored his handshake and instead just stared at him, he relieved tension with a joke. Right...

----------


## Shen

> Uh, so... Tim's rude because... When Damian ignored his handshake and instead just stared at him, he relieved tension with a joke. Right...


You know there's a world of people out there who react differently to situations that aren't scripted, right..?

He didn't wanna shake Tim's hand, and that stare made it kinda obvious.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> You know there's a world of people out there who react differently to situations that aren't scripted, right..?


Yes, and any one of them could conclude that the only rude one there was Damian.

----------


## Shen

> Yes, and any one of them could conclude that the only rude one there was Damian.


And there are other's that wouldn't. The worlds not as black and white as it's made out to be.

----------


## Shen

> And there are other's that wouldn't. The worlds not as black and white as it's made out to be.


Case in point; Me  :Big Grin:

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> Case in point; Me


Yeah, but you've got an obvious inclination towards defending Damian. It's not the same as the average person picking up the comic and coming to the obvious conclusion.

----------


## Shen

> Yeah, but you've got an obvious inclination towards defending Damian. It's not the same as the average person picking up the comic and coming to the obvious conclusion.


That's true, but I was that average person picking up that comic to read it for the first time. 

Was Damian rude? Undeniably. Was he excessive? Definitely. Was he in the wrong? Bruh, don't ask rhetorical questions.

All this, and still I, the average reader in a planet of billions, could still understand why the killer-kid was rude to Junior-Joker.

----------


## adrikito

Wow.. The last image is UNEXPECTED..

Now I understand Robin 2 Cover.

----------


## Shen

> All this, and still I, the average reader in a planet of billions, could still understand why the killer-kid was rude to *Junior-Joker*.


Damn, that was a Batman Beyond reference XD

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> That's true, but I was that average person picking up that comic to read it for the first time. 
> 
> Was Damian rude? Undeniably. Was he excessive? Definitely. Was he in the wrong? Bruh, don't ask rhetorical questions.
> 
> All this, and still I, the average reader in a planet of billions, could still understand why the killer-kid was rude to Junior-Joker.


Well, yeah, but you came to the wrong conclusion than the one Grant Morrison intended. Damian wasn't rude because he was provoked by Tim, he was rude because he perceived himself as being entitled to be the sole heir to Bruce's legacy.

----------


## Shen

> Wow.. The last image is UNEXPECTED..
> 
> Now I understand Robin 2 Cover.


Wait wait wait, I need to watch it. I just downloaded it. Damn. I hope they don't take it down.

----------


## adrikito

Is related with Flatline introduction.. I will not say more.

Rose is giving one advice to Damian and even appears in the last page. 

It seems that she will be relevant here. Despite watching one COPYRIGHT Slade copy(and even here sharing one future image with Damian) I should not be surprised about it  :Wink: 

Good thing because I like her.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> Wow.. The last image is UNEXPECTED..
> 
> Now I understand Robin 2 Cover.


What's even more unexpected is the guy doing the review.

----------


## Shen

> Well, yeah, but you came to the wrong conclusion than the one Grant Morrison intended. Damian wasn't rude because he was provoked by Tim, he was rude because he perceived himself as being entitled to be the sole heir to Bruce's legacy.


...

Buuuut I still came to that conclusion, which was a possibility so...

What was the point of this again? Oh right! 
You know that two sides to every story trope that gets tossed around a lot? 

I'm just the guy who understood both sides.

----------


## Shen

> What's even more unexpected is the guy doing the review.


Isn't he like a Tim Drake fan? I'm sure I've heard his name before.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> ...
> 
> Buuuut I still came to that conclusion, which was a possibility so...
> 
> What was the point of this again? Oh right! 
> You know that two sides to every story trope that gets tossed around a lot? 
> 
> I'm just the guy who understood both sides.


I think by calling Tim rude you're not understanding his side at all.

----------


## Blue22

> Someone in youtube called ROBIN 1 a GOOD START(He is even showing the comic):
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5c9KOjLY3o
> 
> You remember that Damian image with a BOOK? It seems that is some kind of MANGA.


Damian's a slice of life fan. Not what I was expecting but somehow I'm not surprised lol

----------


## Shen

> I think by calling Tim rude you're not understanding his side at all.


Oh I definitely do. He's just doing something any normal person would do to diffuse the tension in a hostile environment. That's what I would do in a normal situation. 

Problem is, that's not what you should do because this isn't a normal situation. Do you think humor is the best answer to a homicidal 10-year old with mommy, daddy and grand-daddy issues. 

To a person raised like an imperious prick like Damian, what Tim did would be considered rude. 

You realize I'm viewing this through his perspective, and that's why our opinion's differ on the subject, right?

----------


## adrikito

> What's even more unexpected is the guy doing the review.


Hahahaha. Yeah..

I put Robin 1 review and thanks to that I found that..

But I will see the comic too. Even if I am happy with what I saw there are some parts that I was unable to read them.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> Oh I definitely do. He's just doing something any normal person would do to diffuse the tension in a hostile environment. That's what I would do in a normal situation. 
> 
> Problem is, that's not what you should do because this isn't a normal situation. Do you think humor is the best answer to a homicidal 10-year old with mommy, daddy and grand-daddy issues. 
> 
> To a person raised like an imperious prick like Damian, what Tim did would be considered rude. 
> 
> You realize I'm viewing this through his perspective, and that's why our opinion's differ on the subject, right?


The problem is you're viewing it through Damian's perspective, which isn't objective. I could say, from Joker's perspective, he had a right to murder Jason Todd, as he was making Batman weaker. That's obviously not logical from any normal person's perspective. It's okay to say that Damian was completely in the wrong.

Just like I can say that clone boy had it coming!

----------


## Shen

> Someone in youtube called ROBIN 1 a GOOD START(He is even showing the comic):
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5c9KOjLY3o
> 
> You remember that Damian image with a BOOK? It seems that is some kind of MANGA.
> 
> ok. is canon that Snake is Bane father. Maybe Damian misses Alfred even more than Bruce.


Damn, this series is gonna be epic! Getting more Mortal Kombat vibes than the movie. Also, yeah I believe he misses Alfred more than Bruce, everyone could count on him when Bruce wasn't around - which for Dami was a lot.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> Hahahaha. Yeah..
> 
> I put Robin 1 review and thanks to that I found that..
> 
> But I will see the comic too. Even if I am happy with what I saw there are some parts that I was unable to read them.


Yeah, I'd rather not spoil it for myself. I still remember when I read Damian's death in Batman, Inc. I was so surprised and happy and excited! Then he came back!

----------


## Shen

> The problem is you're viewing it through Damian's perspective, which isn't objective. I could say, from Joker's perspective, he had a right to murder Jason Todd, as he was making Batman weaker. That's obviously not logical from any normal person's perspective. It's okay to say that Damian was completely in the wrong.
> 
> Just like I can say that clone boy had it coming!


So me viewing it through Damian's perspective and finding Tim rude is incorrect...

----------


## Shen

> Yeah, I'd rather not spoil it for myself. I still remember when I read Damian's death in Batman, Inc. I was so surprised and happy and excited! Then he came back!


I almost forgot you were kind of a troll XD

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> I almost forgot you were kind of a troll XD


Damian coming back was a good thing! Aren't you a Damian fan?

----------


## Shen

> Damian coming back was a good thing! Aren't you a Damian fan?


Of course I am. I was referring to your happiness at his death on his appreciation thread.

----------


## adrikito

I consider it weird too.. Even if he was trolling.

----------


## Shen

> I consider it weird too.. Even if he was trolling.


Meh, It's cool though. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion. Keeps things interesting.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> Of course I am. I was referring to your happiness at his death on his appreciation thread.


Of course, it was character development.

----------


## Shen

> Of course, it was character development.


Well, you're not wrong XD

----------


## Superboy-Prime

Damian with superpowers was cool, reminded me of Superboy. A shorter Superboy.

----------


## Shen

> Damian with superpowers was cool, reminded me of Superboy. A shorter Superboy.


I'm pretty sure Bruce had nightmares. Not only did his son have homicidal tendencies, he had the same superpowers as a Kent.

I think it could have been a good chance to teach Damian about responsibility, hell he could've bonded more with Clark. Of course, Bruce was like 'Nyope!'

----------


## adrikito

I am happy that Damian is NORMAL..

I would not like a weird decision like that one that was made with Superkid and see him aging 7-8 years for NO REASON

Anyway. Bendis thing. Nothing surprising. 

Even if I liked his Steph in Young Justice I hope not see him in anything related with Damian..

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> I am happy that Damian is NORMAL..
> 
> I would not like a weird decision like that one that was made with Superkid and see him aging 7-8 years for NO REASON
> 
> Anyway. Bendis thing. Nothing surprising.


In contrast to Jon, I wouldn't be surprised if Damian stays Robin forever. Like Earth-Two Richard Grayson.

----------


## adrikito

> In contrast to Jon, I wouldn't be surprised if Damian stays Robin forever. Like Earth-Two Richard Grayson.


I hope that Not.. I heard that Supersons showed one Damian(with a son) and was still a Robin as adult..

I think that this positions fits one Kid or Teen but not one adult.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> I hope that Not.. I heard that Supersons showed one Damian(with a son) and was still a Robin as adult..
> 
> I think that this positions fits one Kid or Teen but not one adult.


Yeah? Then what'd you have him become? Nightwing or something?

----------


## adrikito

> Yeah? Then what'd you have him become? Nightwing or something?


Batman. Like his 666 version. I saw him cool.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> Batman. Like his 666 version. I saw him cool.


Jon already has a Batman. So what else?

----------


## Shen

> I am happy that Damian is NORMAL..
> 
> I would not like a weird decision like that one that was made with Superkid and see him aging 7-8 years for NO REASON
> 
> Anyway. Bendis thing. Nothing surprising. 
> 
> Even if I liked his Steph in Young Justice I hope not see him in anything related with Damian..


Bendis has some good moments. Like, with justice league and Black Adam. I'm really enjoying how they're portraying him. Even Hippolyta.

It was my personal headcannon years before they shared the same page, that Teth Adam and Queen Hippolyta were inspirations to Damian and Mara when they were kids (well, smaller kids).

----------


## Shen

> Batman. Like his 666 version. I saw him cool.


I saw your profile pic  :Big Grin:  666 was always one of my favorites. Had a bit of depth to him. Especially that christmas special, where he and Ra's were the only ones left alive.

----------


## Frontier

> Without Adam Glass we wouldn't be getting this Tournament arc, so I'd like to thank him.


I think that depends on if Joshua Williamson would have written Damian with or without that Teen Titans run...



> Jon already has a Batman. So what else?


Maybe he gets two Batman's?

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> Maybe he gets two Batman's?


Nah. DC isn't getting rid of Bruce and Jace isn't going anywhere either.

----------


## Frontier

> Nah. DC isn't getting rid of Bruce and Jace isn't going anywhere either.


That doesn't rule out Damian becoming Batman at some point.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> That doesn't rule out Damian becoming Batman at some point.


I don't see three Batmen as being viable. The Flash does it, but that's a different situation. Jay Garrick is mostly retired, and Bruce is never going to be allowed to reach that age.

----------


## Shen

> That doesn't rule out Damian becoming Batman at some point.


At the rate were going, not any time soon. But that's okay, the kid needs a little time to decide if he truly wants to be a hardened vigilante/young man with a trust fund, and too much anger.

----------


## Shen

> I don't see three Batmen as being viable. The Flash does it, but that's a different situation. Jay Garrick is mostly retired, and Bruce is never going to be allowed to reach that age.


Just try thinking about that "I'm Batman" conversation.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

A Next Batman and Robin crossover where Damian realizes the mantle is covered and begins to figure out what he really wants for himself after maturing out of the Robin role would be interesting. I mean, of course at first he'd contend Jace, Damian not contesting his right to be Batman would be out of character.

----------


## Astralabius

> He was already striking out on his own well before Glass and Thompson sank their claws into him. There are a plenty of ways this arc could have still happened without the character assassination. Just like how Wally's current character arc could still happened without the stain on his history that is Heroes in Crisis. I'm not gonna be thankful for a bad idea just because some good ones came after it.


Yeah, why would I thank Glass or Thompson? Or DC? I'm grateful Damian is getting an ongoing, but that is the least they could give us to make up for the huge mess they made for three years.

----------


## Shen

> A Next Batman and Robin crossover where Damian realizes the mantle is covered and begins to figure out what he really wants for himself after maturing out of the Robin role would be interesting. I mean, of course at first he'd contend Jace, Damian not contesting his right to be Batman would be out of character.


This I can agree with. Thing is, the way the Robin title is going - it'll put him back onto being Robin and solving cases. You've seen it in recent pages of the backups. He'll still be Robin till he's at least 17 or so. And that's perfectly fine.

----------


## Frontier

> I don't see three Batmen as being viable. The Flash does it, but that's a different situation. Jay Garrick is mostly retired, and Bruce is never going to be allowed to reach that age.


Technically there's four Flashes, one of which is the Chinese Flash Avery Ho, and by that metric there are three Batman's with the Bat-Man of China. 

Damian would probably replace his father if he were ever to become Batman. 



> A Next Batman and Robin crossover where Damian realizes the mantle is covered and begins to figure out what he really wants for himself after maturing out of the Robin role would be interesting.


I feel like Damian would probably just size up Jace, think he's a decent enough Batman in his own right, and think both Jace and his father are good placeholders until he's ready for the mantle...

----------


## Shen

> Yeah, why would I thank Glass or Thompson? Or DC? I'm grateful Damian is getting an ongoing, but that is the least they could give us to make up for the huge mess they made for three years.


It's pretty much like putting a band-aid on a fatal wound, but hey this first chapter is one effective band-aid  :Big Grin:

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> Technically there's four Flashes, one of which is the Chinese Flash Avery Ho, and by that metric there are three Batman's with the Bat-Man of China. 
> 
> Damian would probably replace his father if he were ever to become Batman.


If Bruce retired, which he never will, but if the universe ever got to that point I'd want Jace to take up the role of Gotham's sole Batman. But that probably is what would happen, if they ever made Damian Batman.




> I feel like Damian would probably just size up Jace, think he's a decent enough Batman in his own right, and think both Jace and his father are good placeholders until he's ready for the mantle...


That's a very strong possibility. Depends on how Joshua Williamson wants to characterize him. In Tomasi's 'Tec run he has no interest in that kinda thing anymore. But now that he's back to Robin, just how much of his father's legacy does he want to inherit?

----------


## Frontier

> If Bruce retired, which he never will, but if the universe ever got to that point I'd want Jace to take up the role of Gotham's sole Batman. But that probably is what would happen, if they ever made Damian Batman.


You don't need to retire a hero to do a replacement story.

----------


## Astralabius

> It's pretty much like putting a band-aid on a fatal wound, but hey this first chapter is one effective band-aid


I think that is what the people complaining about Damian getting an ongoing, but not their fave, don't quite understand.
Jason, Cass, Duke, Steph, Tim, did they have some rough few years? Sure. But DC did not try to turn them into villains in an attempt to kick them out of their mantles for the past few years.
Even Ric, which was not good, was always going to end with Dick returning as Nightwing. We all knew that.

Damian needs an ongoing to repair the damage done to him as a character and make him a hero again.
One arc here and there in Detective Comics wouldn't have been enough to fix this mess.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> You don't need to retire a hero to do a replacement story.


I guess? But wouldn't Damian being Batman for a short arc be underwhelming? I'd rather he develop into it like Wally or just leave it alone.

----------


## Frontier

> I guess? But wouldn't Damian being Batman for a short arc be underwhelming? I'd rather he develop into it like Wally or just leave it alone.


I'd imagine it would be more like Dick as Bats than Jean-Paul or Gordon.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> I think that is what the people complaining about Damian getting an ongoing, but not their fave, don't quite understand.
> Jason, Cass, Duke, Steph, Tim, did they have some rough few years? Sure. But DC did not try to turn them into villains in an attempt to kick them out of their mantles for the past few years.
> Even Ric, which was not good, was always going to end with Dick returning as Nightwing. We all knew that.
> 
> Damian needs an ongoing to repair the damage done to him as a character and make him a hero again.
> One arc here and there in Detective Comics wouldn't have been enough to fix this mess.


I think it's just a Robin ongoing would sell a lot more haha. But true.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> I'd imagine it would be more like Dick as Bats than Jean-Paul or Gordon.


I see Dick as Batman as the same as the other two. Robin going to Nightwing works, but Nightwing going to Batman had the writing on the wall from its conception.

----------


## Frontier

> I see Dick as Batman as the same as the other two. Robin going to Nightwing works, but Nightwing going to Batman had the writing on the wall from its conception.


It was still a good point for Dick (and Damian)  :Smile: .

----------


## Frontier

> I see Dick as Batman as the same as the other two. Robin going to Nightwing works, but Nightwing going to Batman had the writing on the wall from its conception.


It was still a good point for Dick (and Damian)  :Smile: .

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> It was still a good point for Dick (and Damian) .


I don't actually share everyone's super enthusiastic love for them, I got a soft spot for the Tomasi and Gleason Bruce and Damian duo. I'm sure it was great, though, since Grant Morrison wrote it. That does remind me that Dick as Batman isn't on that Nightwing #79 second printing, though.

----------


## Shen

> I think that is what the people complaining about Damian getting an ongoing, but not their fave, don't quite understand.
> Jason, Cass, Duke, Steph, Tim, did they have some rough few years? Sure. But DC did not try to turn them into villains in an attempt to kick them out of their mantles for the past few years.
> Even Ric, which was not good, was always going to end with Dick returning as Nightwing. We all knew that.
> 
> Damian needs an ongoing to repair the damage done to him as a character and make him a hero again.
> One arc here and there in Detective Comics wouldn't have been enough to fix this mess.


Every character has their ups and downs, but Damian's been plummeting for a while now. I'm just glad they're finally trying to give him a positive direction. Plus, I might get to see Maya and Colin again so - win, win!

----------


## Astralabius

> I think it's just a Robin ongoing would sell a lot more haha. But true.


These fans would probably argue the same for their favourite character getting an ongoing.
But the one who got the ongoings (for now) were Nightwing with Tom Taylor as a big name attached to it and Damian.
I think those two characters suffered the most in recent years.
The others didn't get a lot of attention, that's true, but none of them were truly damaged.

----------


## Shen

> I don't actually share everyone's super enthusiastic love for them, I got a soft spot for the Tomasi and Gleason Bruce and Damian duo. I'm sure it was great, though, since Grant Morrison wrote it. That does remind me that Dick as Batman isn't on that Nightwing #79 second printing, though.


images (22).jpg

You don't have to love em, but you can't argue that moments like these aren't priceless

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> images (22).jpg
> 
> You don't have to love em, but you can't argue that moments like these aren't priceless


Sure. Never said I didn't like them.

----------


## Shen

> Sure. Never said I didn't like them.


They make a great team. But I do agree that I'd wanna see more of Bruce and Damian as a duo. Dick helped Damian grow, but Bruce wasn't there at the time and their interactions have been scarce lately.

----------


## Astralabius

> Every character has their ups and downs, but Damian's been plummeting for a while now. I'm just glad they're finally trying to give him a positive direction. Plus, I might get to see Maya and Colin again so - win, win!


This is DC we're talking about here, so I guess I have to be glad they didn't let him fall into limbo or killed him off just so they didn't have to deal with what they wrote for him. Or you know, stubbornly comitted to making Damian a villain even when almost no fan of Damian wants him to be one.
But do I really wanna hang the bar that low?

Anyway, I'm looking forward to this ongoing and hope that Williamson will deliver what he promised.

----------


## Blue22

> images (22).jpg
> 
> You don't have to love em, but you can't argue that moments like these aren't priceless


Added bonus for being one of the few times that Damian's actually looked 13 lol

----------


## Eckri

Recently read Robin#1,

Gotta say the Mortal Kombat vibes are strong with this one.  
Especially the last panel.

----------


## Shen

Read Challenge of the SuperSons #14. Was a pretty good issue. Even hinted at Damian's 'abilities', then proceeded to break the 4th wall.

----------


## sifighter

Read Robin #1 and we learn a big thing about Damian....the kid reads Manga. I thought it was a nice touch, overall good first issue.

----------


## Morgoth

I was surprised that there was no explanation as to why Damian calls himself Robin again, even though he had given up the role before.
Apparently, the only thing that will be taken into account is Damian's quarrel with Bruce, and about the rest they really just threw in the trash.

----------


## Shen

> I was surprised that there was no explanation as to why Damian calls himself Robin again, even though he had given up the role before.
> Apparently, the only thing that will be taken into account is Damian's quarrel with Bruce, and about the rest they really just threw in the trash.


I wasn't able to read it yet, coz it sold out and I have to wait for the scans, but does he really call himself Robin?

----------


## adrikito

> Jon already has a Batman. So what else?


Since when Batman belongs to Superman or Superman decides who is Batman?

facepalm.jpg

The current Batman is only someone who will be here TEMPORARILY.. In some months there will be the ONLY 1 BATMAN again. Like Gordon as Batman or Superkid as Superman. The Real Superman is alive.

I am thinking in the future.(Despite probably DICK will obtain the role before him) Not now.. I like this Robin costume to want him taking another role now..




> Bendis has some good moments. Like, with justice league and Black Adam. I'm really enjoying how they're portraying him. Even Hippolyta.
> 
> It was my personal headcannon years before they shared the same page, that Teth Adam and Queen Hippolyta were inspirations to Damian and Mara when they were kids (well, smaller kids).


I heard a little about it but.. Even if I respect Wonderwoman I stopped reading her comics many years ago(I hate her relationship with Trevor) I Only read her in Special Ocassions like when Darkseid appeared in her comic.

I liked the Chrismats special too..

*Ra`s:* I did not bring any present.
*Bat-Damian:* You did.

----------


## Eckri

> I was surprised that there was no explanation as to why Damian calls himself Robin again, even though he had given up the role before.
> Apparently, the only thing that will be taken into account is Damian's quarrel with Bruce, and about the rest they really just threw in the trash.


Think he's just using it for credibility's sake.

The kid is on the run, gotta use everything he can to accomplish his goals.

----------


## Astralabius

> Think he's just using it for credibility's sake.
> 
> The kid is on the run, gotta use everything he can to accomplish his goals.


Pretty much. In an interview with Newsarama Williamson said this:

Newsarama: Damian Wayne has been wanting to separate himself from the Bat mantle. With the book being called Robin, is he still trying to step away from the Bat-Family?

Williamson: He's back in a spot where he's like 'This is mine. So, I'm taking it back. I'm going use it as a tool because it has weight and value.' 

Like he sees the name of Robin as a weapon that carries weight to it in the world. 

So, he's going to use it, and then that's sort of where his take is on it. But then what it means to be Robin will definitely come up, and his interpretation of it. The fact that yes, he gave it back or it was taken away and all the stuff that happened with it, that stuff will come up in the book.

----------


## Astralabius

> I wasn't able to read it yet, coz it sold out and I have to wait for the scans, but does he really call himself Robin?


He introduces himself as Robin to the other fighters.

----------


## adrikito

I like his costume.. Is if Damian decided turn in a MODERN ROBIN  :Cool: 

Here I was thinking FINALLY.. I was starting to think that this poor family was introduced without reason while Damian was focused in another things.Damian money to poor people.jpg

----------


## Astralabius

> Recently read Robin#1,
> 
> Gotta say the Mortal Kombat vibes are strong with this one.  
> Especially the last panel.


Yeah...I actually hope Williamson doesn't overdo it with shock value cliffhangers in the next few issues. I liked the issue, but I can't say I'm a fan of violence for the sake of violence.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> Since when Batman belongs to Superman or Superman decides who is Batman?
> 
> facepalm.jpg
> 
> The current Batman is only someone who will be here TEMPORARILY.. In some months there will be the ONLY 1 BATMAN again. Like Gordon as Batman or Superkid as Superman. The Real Superman is alive.
> 
> I am thinking in the future.(Despite probably DICK will obtain the role before him) Not now.. I like this Robin costume to want him taking another role now..
> .


John Ridley has already confirmed that The Next Batman is permanent, so no. Again, what else? Jon already has a Batman.

----------


## Morgoth

> John Ridley has already confirmed that The Next Batman is permanent, so no. Again, what else? Jon already has a Batman.


Nobody gives a damn.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> Nobody gives a damn.


Your mom does.

----------


## Morgoth

Worst troll ever) :Embarrassment:

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> Worst troll ever)


I was gonna say the same thing about you! I guess the difference is that the Next Batman isn't a temporary Batman and is actually an additional member to the Bat-Family, incomparable to the previous Batman(s) like Dick Grayson, Azrael, and Jim Gordon because all three of those characters were properly established in their own identities as Nightwing, Azrael, and the Commissioner respectively. In another big difference, John Ridley confirmed that the Next Batman is explicitly different from Azrael in terms of him not being temporary, and that he's an ongoing Batman, therefore as it relates to the topic before you joined in, the Next Batman is not temporary and I'd like to hear another identity for Damian, as that most likely will never be his.

Yeah, that sounds like the difference.

----------


## Morgoth

I didn’t even mean Jace, the remark was that you again mention Jon’s potential duet with him, as if someone cares about it. And this "Jon already has a Batman" does not work very well, because according to this logic, he has two Batmen, considering that Bruce also does not go anywhere.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> I didn’t even mean Jace, the remark was that you again mention Jon’s potential duet with him, as if someone cares about it. And this "Jon already has a Batman" does not work very well, because according to this logic, he has two Batmen, considering that Bruce also does not go anywhere.


In Future State, Jon's Justice League has Jace on it, not Damian. Jace is the Batman to his Superman. That's all.

----------


## Shen

This is entertaining, ngl.

tenor.jpg

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> This is entertaining, ngl.


I'm just looking for some originality. A new identity for Damian to develop into, if he ever wanted to. I'd have no problem with him staying Robin as an adult like Earth-Two Dick Grayson. I just thought we all knew that Batman wasn't in Damian's path after Jace was introduced.

----------


## sifighter

> I'm just looking for some originality. A new identity for Damian to develop into, if he ever wanted to. I'd have no problem with him staying Robin as an adult like Earth-Two Dick Grayson. I just thought we all knew that Batman wasn't in Damian's path after Jace was introduced.


I mean theoretically Jace is 27 and Damian's 14, at some point if Jace did just take over for Bruce nothing is stopping Damian from suiting up like Jace is or that he takes over for Jace once he retires.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> I mean theoretically Jace is 27 and Damian's 14, at some point if Jace did just take over for Bruce nothing is stopping Damian from suiting up like Jace is or that he takes over for Jace once he retires.


Using Future State as a guideline, Jace was still Batman well into 2040. By that point, I don't think it'd go to Damian, probably someone new. And I'm not really convinced Jace is 27 until it's stated, I think they could be rounding up the years.

----------


## Shen

> I'm just looking for some originality. A new identity for Damian to develop into, if he ever wanted to. I'd have no problem with him staying Robin as an adult like Earth-Two Dick Grayson. I just thought we all knew that Batman wasn't in Damian's path after Jace was introduced.


You know, I actually wanna agree with you on that. I honestly wanted Damian to grow on his own, and see that Batman isn't all it's cut out to be. Idc what he becomes next, but he should honestly practice what he preached to his cousin. 

tumblr_oqegwdyok21smb66mo2_r1_500.jpg

----------


## sifighter

> Using Future State as a guideline, Jace was still Batman well into 2040. By that point, I don't think it'd go to Damian, probably someone new. And I'm not really convinced Jace is 27 until it's stated, I think they could be rounding up the years.


I mean the incident was on his 17th birthday, and he was gone for 10 years or so right? That would make him 27 now, and in 2040 that would make him 46 and Damian would be 33.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> I mean the incident was on his 17th birthday, and he was gone for 10 years or so right? That would make him 27 now, and in 2040 that would make him 46 and Damian would be 33.


Yeah, like I said, I'm not convinced that they weren't rounding up.

----------


## sifighter

> Yeah, like I said, I'm not convinced that they weren't rounding up.


Fair enough, I have my own personal doubts on the future state timeline, no way was Jace nearly 50 in Justice League with how he looked and then in comparison with other characters like Jon, Jo, and Andy. I mean come on in present day, Jon is 17, Yara is at least what 18, Jo is in her 20's, Andy is a baby, and Jess has yet to appear. So something is fishy in that timeline.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

Oh, what a stupid discussion this is lol. Just for the record, I don't think Damian should become Batman in the future, but that's just my opinion, of course. 

Anyway, I don't think that Jace being The Next Batman actually stops other characters from becoming Batman in the future. There's years and years of other characters becoming Batman temporarily, alternate futures and all. And I know Jace is different, of course, but that doesn't mean that's going to stop. And if Jace and Bruce will be Batman at the same time, what stops someone else from being Batman with Jace in the future, also at the same time? It doesn’t, because DC wants money.

----------


## Morgoth

> Using Future State as a guideline


What for? They themselves said that this is not part of the main continuity.
Given the sales of Second Son, I have my doubts that Jace as Batman will be on the same level as Bruce, and that goes for everyone else. The main one is Bruce, he's the Batman, that's all.
And it's amusing to think, that Damian can become Batman in main continuity, considering how "fast" he's growing up.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> What for? They themselves said that this is not part of the main continuity.


Because Future State is a possible future of the current main continuity. So it shows that Jace can continue to be Batman into the 2040s.

----------


## Blue22

Got around to reading the first issue. Loved it. 

*spoilers:*
Of course Damian goes and makes a complete ass out of himself in front of a whole island full of people. He wouldn't be him if he didn't.

Just didn't expect the ensuing ass whooping to be THAT bad. Dude entered a Mortal Kombat tournament and ended up being the first one to get fatality'd lol. Obviously Punchline didn't actually rip his heart out so I'm wondering what really happened.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Frontier

> I'm just looking for some originality. A new identity for Damian to develop into, if he ever wanted to. I'd have no problem with him staying Robin as an adult like Earth-Two Dick Grayson. I just thought we all knew that Batman wasn't in Damian's path after Jace was introduced.


I guess we've still got that Redbird identity?

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> I guess we've still got that Redbird identity?


That could definitely work. But what is it with Batman, Inc. identities being named after vehicles? Batwing is Batman's plane and Redbird is Tim Drake's car.

----------


## Frontier

> That could definitely work. But what is it with Batman, Inc. identities being named after vehicles? Batwing is Batman's plane and Redbird is Tim Drake's car.


Cool names are cool names  :Stick Out Tongue: ?

----------


## adrikito

> John Ridley has already confirmed that The Next Batman is permanent, so no. Again, what else? Jon already has a Batman.


PERMANENT... Hahahahahahaa.. When the fans Miss Bruce the other one will FALL alongside his comics sales.

Not everyone can be DICK GRAYSON that fans would allow him to be Batman some years.




> In Future State, Jon's Justice League has Jace on it, not Damian. Jace is the Batman to his Superman. That's all.


Future State is 2021 version of FUTURE *ENDS*.. Nobody will remember it in few years..  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> PERMANENT... Hahahahahahaa.. When the fans Miss Bruce the other one will FALL alongside his comics sales.
> 
> Not everyone can be DICK GRAYSON that fans would allow him to be Batman some years.
> 
> 
> 
> Future State is 2021 version of FUTURE *ENDS*.. Nobody will remember it in few years..


I don't know what makes you think Bruce isn't sticking around. Like, you know Bruce and Jace have always been Batman at the same time? In Future State, Bruce had Dark Detective and Jace had The Next Batman. Infinite Frontier #0 shows them being Batman at the same time, both on the cover and on the spread showing all of Infinite Frontier's heroes. Why do you think Clark is keeping Action Comics while Jon has Superman: Son of Kal-El? I already told you why Jace is permanent, John Ridley said it. Go take it up with him if you don't like two Batmen in Gotham.

Comparing him to Dick is interesting, because Dick was never meant to be permanent like Jace. He never could be. He was already established as Nightwing. If you're going to compare Jace to someone, compare him to Terry McGinnis. Anything else is false.

And, uh... There's such a huge difference between Future State and Future's End. Like, none of Future's End happened and a bunch of stuff from Future State is happening. Jon as Superman, The Next Batman, Yara Flor. Crazy huge difference.

----------


## adrikito

To me this is ANOTHER ALTERMATIVE FUTURE(like future ends) until DC has another new idea.. In few years.
*
SALES ARE IMPORTANT. When the people gets tired of this Unknown man(that Jace) Bruce will be the ONLY BATMAN again. Without matter that DC:Future State.* Probably in 2025 nobody will even remember his name.

Like KAL-EL will be the only Superman again in few years without matter this State.



Now were are in the past.. DC can avoid that Magistrate to take Gotham and with that This Future State.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> To me this is ANOTHER ALTERMATIVE FUTURE(like future ends) until DC has another new idea.. In few years.
> 
> SALES ARE IMPORTANT. When the people gets tired of this Unknown man that Jace Bruce will be the ONLY BATMAN again.. 
> 
> 
> Probably in 2025 nobody would even remember his name.


Yeah, man, remember when people got tired of Miles Morales? I don't even remember his name! And, like, DC is totally gonna get rid of the new Batman who literally doesn't affect the old Batman at all. Just so that *checks notes* my favorite character who was never gonna be Batman anyway can be Batman in *checks notes* an Elseworlds story!

Honestly, SALES ARE IMPORTANT. When people get tired of Damian, DC should bring back Carrie Kelley from the New 52. Would anyone even remember his name in 2025?

----------


## Shen

Yes. This threads 2025 version.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> Yes. This threads 2025 version.


Sorry, but after The Next Batman sold out twice in Future State, and it's a freakin' *Batman* title, thinking that it won't sell well makes 0 sense. Especially since the titular Batman in question is a person of color. Representation matters, and I'm sorry, but Miles Morales wasn't some Oscar winning writing for the 10 years that Bendis wrote it. Jace is permanent, accept it, and let's move on.

I actually just enjoy telling people their favorite character won't be Batman, but I believe the other stuff too. (And they all deserve more than the Batman mantle, right? Haha.)

----------


## Shen

> Sorry, but after The Next Batman sold out twice in Future State, and it's a freakin' *Batman* title, thinking that it won't sell well makes 0 sense. Especially since the titular Batman in question is a person of color. Representation matters, and I'm sorry, but Miles Morales wasn't some Oscar winning writing for the 10 years that Bendis wrote it. Jace is permanent, accept it, and let's move on.
> 
> I actually just enjoy telling people their favorite character won't be Batman, but I believe the other stuff too. (And they all deserve more than the Batman mantle, right? Haha.)


a) I actually don't mind Jace being Batman. As far as representation goes, I guess being black is the way to go. Not like there's an entire world out there with different skin-tones and ethnicities. 

b) I answered your final question about People remembering Damian in 2025, this forum will still be around even if it is to remember a hero lost to limbo.

c)... You've got some issues ranting on a forum can't solve, you should seek professional help.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> a) I actually don't mind Jace being Batman. As far as representation goes, I guess being black is the way to go. Not like there's an entire world out there with different skin-tones and ethnicities. 
> 
> b) I answered your final question about People remembering Damian in 2025, this forum will still be around even if it is to remember a hero lost to limbo.
> 
> c)... You've got some issues ranting on a forum can't solve, you should seek professional help.


a) "Not like there's an entire world out there with different skin-tones and ethnicites." What do you mean by that?

2. Carrie Kelley?

IV. Yeah, my Action Comics issues are taking up a lot of space in my room. I should move them to the attic, but they're pretty rare and I don't want them to collect dust.

7. Tim Drake was Batman Beyond.

----------


## garazza

It's so cool reading about another character in a different character's thread lol.

To put in my two cents, I have nothing against Jace but I really don't like how DC is both pushing him to the moon while simultaneously doing nothing to have put set down roots in the familiar Batfamily.

Jace is really cool idea, but, much like Miles, he works the best when he doesn't have to deal with the baggage of the Batfamily. If he was allowed to have his own, separate continuity, say the Future State one, because that's where he sold the best, the argument between who should be Batman, Bruce or Jace, would be moot because it would truly be the best of both worlds because there would be two worlds.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> It's so cool reading about another character in a different character's thread lol.
> 
> To put in my two cents, I have nothing against Jace but I really don't like how DC is both pushing him to the moon while simultaneously doing nothing to have put set down roots in the familiar Batfamily.
> 
> Jace is really cool idea, but, much like Miles, he works the best when he doesn't have to deal with the baggage of the Batfamily. If he was allowed to have his own, separate continuity, say the Future State one, because that's where he sold the best, the argument between who should be Batman, Bruce or Jace, would be moot because it would truly be the best of both worlds because there would be two worlds.


There's no argument, they've both always been Batman together. Jace works best with the rest of the Bat-Family, as Batwing being his brother is a big deal. And on the topic of sales, Jace being shot off to Digital First until later this year makes that weird to examine, though he's always within the top 10 digital sales.

Anyways, I only brought up Jace so that people would give a viable alternate identity for Damian, 'cause obviously it won't be Batman. I've only got Redbird so far, anybody got something else?

----------


## OopsIdiditagain

> There's no argument, they've both always been Batman together. Jace works best with the rest of the Bat-Family, as Batwing being his brother is a big deal. And on the topic of sales, Jace being shot off to Digital First until later this year makes that weird to examine, though he's always within the top 10 digital sales.
> 
> Anyways, I only brought up Jace so that people would give a viable alternate identity for Damian, 'cause obviously it won't be Batman. I've only got Redbird so far, anybody got something else?


He lead the League of Assassins in Beyond but most people won't like that because it makes him "villainous".

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> He lead the League of Assassins in Beyond but most people won't like that because it makes him "villainous".


A heroic Ra's al Ghul like in Batman Beyond would actually be cool!

----------


## garazza

Batman Beyond, because it is an AU, is the perfect place to do things they wouldn't otherwise be able to do in the main continuity.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> Batman Beyond, because it is an AU, is the perfect place to do things they wouldn't otherwise be able to do in the main continuity.


I could see it happening in main continuity. They introduce a new Robin, Damian inherits his mother's legacy, but as a force for good, takes up the mantle of Ra's.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> I could see it happening in main continuity. They introduce a new Robin, Damian inherits his mother's legacy, but as a force for good, takes up the mantle of Ra's.


I know that some people will disagree with me, but I hate this ending for him and I think it's the worst option lol. To me, Damian should create his own identity.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> I know that some people will disagree with me, but I hate this ending for him and I think it's the worst option lol. To me, Damian should create his own identity.


That's fine. I wonder what it would be.

----------


## Blue22

> I know that some people will disagree with me, but I hate this ending for him and I think it's the worst option lol. To me, Damian should create his own identity.


Yeah I'd rather he not follow in either of his parents' footsteps. Some kind of middle ground maybe but I don't want him being Batman (especially if he's using the 666 look. I hate that costume) and I don't want him straight up taking over either of Ra's or Talia's organizations (albeit for heroic purposes). I used to think I wanted the latter. But the more I think about it, the more I want Damian to just...do his own thing. I wanted the same for Jon but it looks like that ship has sailed.

----------


## Eckri

Re-read the issue again, and all this talk of his own identity. The idea struck me.

I'd say for him to adopt the name the Grey Ghost. 
Oracle in the first issue already calls him a Ghost, and his costume does have that tint of Grey. 
Plus, a call back to that old Batman TAS episode.

----------


## adrikito

> Yeah, man, remember when people got tired of Miles Morales? I don't even remember his name! And, like, DC is totally gonna get rid of the new Batman who literally doesn't affect the old Batman at all. Just so that *checks notes* my favorite character who was never gonna be Batman anyway can be Batman in *checks notes* an Elseworlds story!
> 
> Honestly, SALES ARE IMPORTANT. When people get tired of Damian, DC should bring back Carrie Kelley from the New 52. Would anyone even remember his name in 2025?


I am a little tired of this.. I will stop paying you attention. 

I enjoy talking with people but.. Is not the case with you.* Is almost like one Marvel and DC fan having a discussion about which universe is better*



If you are talking *Half seriously* and not only trolling you will end disappointed with that Batman.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Yeah I'd rather he not follow in either of his parents' footsteps. Some kind of middle ground maybe but I don't want him being Batman (especially if he's using the 666 look. I hate that costume) and I don't want him straight up taking over either of Ra's or Talia's organizations (albeit for heroic purposes). I used to think I wanted the latter. But the more I think about it, the more I want Damian to just...do his own thing. I wanted the same for Jon but it looks like that ship has sailed.


Hes not gonna be we know Jace will be batman
And Batman Beyond shows him the Demon head

----------


## Shen

> He lead the League of Assassins in Beyond but most people won't like that because it makes him "villainous".


That's soo dumb! I loved him as Ra's. God, some people just need to chill. 

Ever since reading Beyond, that's always the destiny I wanted him to have. The resources of Ra's al Ghul trump Batmans even more in current continuity. I mean, dude has his own country and built a city of assassins centuries ago. And should current Ra's bite the dust, that city will fall in either Talia or Damian's hands. He could actually do some good with what the title of Ra's gets him.

Not Batman though, Jace can have that or one of Bruce's other broken condoms can take a shot at it. Just recently Bruce asked himself what difference he's made in his city and - not much, actually. 

Because the Clown Prince can decide to show up one night in Gotham and paint the town red with the blood of the innocents, all while waiting for his Dark Knight to escort him back to his throne in Arkham. 

Well, lets hope Gordan changes that.

----------


## Shen

> Re-read the issue again, and all this talk of his own identity. The idea struck me.
> 
> I'd say for him to adopt the name the Grey Ghost. 
> Oracle in the first issue already calls him a Ghost, and his costume does have that tint of Grey. 
> Plus, a call back to that old Batman TAS episode.


I mean, his uncle Dusan was called the "White Ghost" by the league so...

Yeah, that's a great name.

----------


## Shen

> I am a little tired of this.. I will stop paying you attention. 
> 
> I enjoy talking with people but.. Is not the case with you.* Is almost like one Marvel and DC fan having a discussion about which universe is better*
> 
> 
> 
> If you are talking *Half seriously* and not only trolling you will end disappointed with that Batman.


If you stop feeding a Troll, it will die. Just keep away from it, they get clingy. Side note: they're really sensitive to flames and do weird things when they're burned, but that's just the Skyrim fanboy in me talking. What do I know?

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> I am a little tired of this.. I will stop paying you attention. 
> 
> I enjoy talking with people but.. Is not the case with you.* Is almost like one Marvel and DC fan having a discussion about which universe is better*
> 
> 
> 
> If you are talking *Half seriously* and not only trolling you will end disappointed with that Batman.


I'll take your word over the guy actually writing the book, sure. Not!

Anyways, Damian as Grey Ghost sounds great.

----------


## Shen

> Yeah I'd rather he not follow in either of his parents' footsteps. Some kind of middle ground maybe but I don't want him being Batman (especially if he's using the 666 look. I hate that costume) and I don't want him straight up taking over either of Ra's or Talia's organizations (albeit for heroic purposes). I used to think I wanted the latter. But the more I think about it, the more I want Damian to just...do his own thing. I wanted the same for Jon but it looks like that ship has sailed.


I know what you mean, in fact I wanted him to understand both sides of his family and decide to be with neither. 

I want him to be around the Assassins a bit more - they've got a lot of history that you mostly see in Jason's storyline. Though I think this series will help with that, I mean the league of Lazarus got retconned into something cooler.

We won't have to worry about Damian's identity for a long time though, but I do hope he finds his own path, I just hope DC will allow him that.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> We won't have to worry about Damian's identity for a long time though, but I do hope he finds his own path, I just hope DC will allow him that.


I don't know. Depends on sales.

----------


## adrikito

> If you stop feeding a Troll, it will die. Just keep away from it, they get clingy. Side note: they're really sensitive to flames and do weird things when they're burned, but that's just the Skyrim fanboy in me talking. What do I know?


Hahahahaha.

You have another Skyrim fan here. I liked that game a lot. Despite it was frustating not have more THALMOR story.. 


I know what happened between them and the Empire but.. I wanted at least force them to leave Skyrim.

----------


## Astralabius

Am I the only one who is extremely tired of the discussion of who Damian should become? He's too young to be Batman or to be the demon's head (which is dumb anyway. He tried turning them into a force of good in Beyond. They tried to kill him. You can use their money for good, that's it) and if there is no magical age up involved this will be the case for a long, long time. If not forever.
I think he's too young to get a new identity too. DC has already problems letting Tim turn into a young adult with his unique identity, until they have found out what they want to do with him Damian should simply be allowed to be Robin in peace for once.

----------


## garazza

> Am I the only one who is extremely tired of the discussion of who Damian should become? He's too young to be Batman or to be the demon's head (which is dumb anyway. He tried turning them into a force of good in Beyond. They tried to kill him. You can use their money for good, that's it) and if there is no magical age up involved this will be the case for a long, long time. If not forever.
> I think he's too young to get a new identity too. DC has already problems letting Tim turn into a young adult with his unique identity, until they have found out what they want to do with him Damian should simply be allowed to be Robin in peace for once.


Same. It's fun to speculate, but leave the characters be. If you're that eager, make a headcanon and move on.

----------


## Blue22

I don't think he's too young to get a new identity but I also have no problem with him continuing to be Robin. In fact, right now I kinda prefer it. I just wouldn't mind if he had decided to be someone else.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> Am I the only one who is extremely tired of the discussion of who Damian should become? He's too young to be Batman or to be the demon's head (which is dumb anyway. He tried turning them into a force of good in Beyond. They tried to kill him. You can use their money for good, that's it) and if there is no magical age up involved this will be the case for a long, long time. If not forever.
> I think he's too young to get a new identity too. DC has already problems letting Tim turn into a young adult with his unique identity, until they have found out what they want to do with him Damian should simply be allowed to be Robin in peace for once.


I mean, yeah, but will he be Robin forever? Compare it to Conner Kent, he didn't stay alive forever. DC replaced him with Jon for years. For now, Damian is Robin again, which is cool. But a decade down the line, he might not be. So it's fun to speculate on his identity what that time comes. He'll probably never be Batman, but he can still mature.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Am I the only one who is extremely tired of the discussion of who Damian should become? He's too young to be Batman or to be the demon's head (which is dumb anyway. He tried turning them into a force of good in Beyond. They tried to kill him. You can use their money for good, that's it) and if there is no magical age up involved this will be the case for a long, long time. If not forever.
> I think he's too young to get a new identity too. DC has already problems letting Tim turn into a young adult with his unique identity, until they have found out what they want to do with him Damian should simply be allowed to be Robin in peace for once.


I like the idea of Damian being Robin, but just if they do an script where he has a health relationship with Bruce/another mentor/partners (happened in the begin and actually with Jon);
I also like him founding a new identity, this Grey Ghost sounds cool, but don't match so much with Damian's posture, I think;
My favorite idea is still flame bird with Dick, but I think it is out of menu.

What I don't like is how the characters have no evolution learning with mistakes, Damian is like Naruto saying in loud voice he is going to become Hokage and being completely impulsive, what brings problems he can't deal with, he should be more smart than that...

----------


## Astralabius

> I mean, yeah, but will he be Robin forever? Compare it to Conner Kent, he didn't stay alive forever. DC replaced him with Jon for years. For now, Damian is Robin again, which is cool. But a decade down the line, he might not be. So it's fun to speculate on his identity what that time comes. He'll probably never be Batman, but he can still mature.


In ten years the DC universe might look completely different. So what is the point of speculating about this based on current events.
Not sure to which degree he can actually mature. It will still take a long time for him to turn 16-18.
In Robin #1 he's back to his old "telling everyone how great he is and who he is related to" ways and Williamson will put him through the wringer to "humble" him. Which is basically every Damian story ever. And I'm willing to bet we will start at that point all over again once the next writer takes over.

----------


## Astralabius

> I like the idea of Damian being Robin, but just if they do an script where he has a health relationship with Bruce/another mentor/partners (happened in the begin and actually with Jon);
> I also like him founding a new identity, this Grey Ghost sounds cool, but don't match so much with Damian's posture, I think;
> My favorite idea is still flame bird with Dick, but I think it is out of menu.
> 
> What I don't like is how the characters have no evolution learning with mistakes, Damian is like Naruto saying in loud voice he is going to become Hokage and being completely impulsive, what brings problems he can't deal with, he should be more smart than that...


The name Flamebird will always sound stupid to me, so I can't say I'm a fan.

To some degree it's normal that characters in comics have to regress, because their story never ends. But yeah, I think they are overdoing it with Damian. If you've seen the same arc for a character play out three times only for it to not matter in the next book you start to wonder why you're still supposed to be invested in that particular character developement.

----------


## Shen

> Hahahahaha.
> 
> You have another Skyrim fan here. I liked that game a lot. Despite it was frustating not have more THALMOR story.. 
> 
> 
> I know what happened between them and the Empire but.. I wanted at least force them to leave Skyrim.


Mods my friend. Someone on the skyrim nexus released a great war mod, and it was decent. Just more high elves to kill (although it was tough, died a couple times.) There's even mods that revamp the Civil War, you can recruit Giants!

Btw, which side did you choose in the civil war? Coz Ulfric is against the Thalmor, but he's quite racist. Even though I played as a Nord - I didn't like that (even though they're the most racist race around XD)

Elder Scrolls 6 should be around relatively soon, so you should find out what happened to them there.

----------


## Shen

> Same. It's fun to speculate, but leave the characters be. If you're that eager, make a headcanon and move on.


Or a fanfic, doesn't really matter. What DC says, goes. They just need to figure out where their characters are heading.

----------


## Frontier

I think Damian's still got a long while of Robin left in him. 

I think a better question is if we'll see Batman and Robin as a team again in the next few years.

----------


## garazza

> In ten years the DC universe might look completely different. So what is the point of speculating about this based on current events.
> Not sure to which degree he can actually mature. It will still take a long time for him to turn 16-18.
> In Robin #1 he's back to his old "telling everyone how great he is and who he is related to" ways and Williamson will put him through the wringer to "humble" him. Which is basically every Damian story ever. And I'm willing to bet we will start at that point all over again once the next writer takes over.


I'm tired of the same old story, too, but I think I think it's part of a pattern inadvertently created by writers who are unable to quite grasp the intricacies and nuances of his character. Whenever Damian "regresses" or his arrogance flairs up again, it's because he's faced with a new and unfamiliar situation. In Ben Percy's TT, it's because it's his first time running a team with all new people he's unfamiliar with. In today's issue, he's participating in a tournament run by a group he should be aware, but was kept from him. Even Super Sons, when not only is he interacting with someone his own age, but someone that can actually put up with him long enough for him to lower his guard.

I won't go so far as to sayhis bravado is a defense mechanism, but it certainly is a default for him when faced with something he hasn't faced before.

----------


## Shen

> In ten years the DC universe might look completely different. So what is the point of speculating about this based on current events.
> Not sure to which degree he can actually mature. It will still take a long time for him to turn 16-18.
> In Robin #1 he's back to his old "telling everyone how great he is and who he is related to" ways and Williamson will put him through the wringer to "humble" him. Which is basically every Damian story ever. And I'm willing to bet we will start at that point all over again once the next writer takes over.


Unfortunately, that's what people do. 

Basing things of current events gave us the Sequel Trilogy for Star Wars. So, yeah... maybe doing that is not such a good idea - but hey, what's the worst that could happen to DC?

He did say this takes inspiration from shounen, so expect Damian to get the crap beat out of him and then pull through when he's near death. Also, the power of friendship should play a factor. Also, as they showed us, Damian has a collection of various "Plot Armors" he can wear XD. 

Should be a good run though, shonen sells - and that's what DC cares about.

----------


## Shen

> I think Damian's still got a long while of Robin left in him. 
> 
> I think a better question is if we'll see Batman and Robin as a team again in the next few years.


This is the most valid question I've seen in a while. I'd say yes. Bruce and Damian need to bond both as heroes and as a family. This Robin series is about getting Damian onto the Hero's path again, but he still needs guidance. 

Bruce needs to step up and power through all of Damian's rage and bluster and be a responsible parent. I know Batdad isn't what most fans would want, but that doesn't mean DC should just gloss over it like the last few years. We've seen how that's effected Damian.

----------


## Shen

> I like the idea of Damian being Robin, but just if they do an script where he has a health relationship with Bruce/another mentor/partners (happened in the begin and actually with Jon);
> I also like him founding a new identity, this Grey Ghost sounds cool, but don't match so much with Damian's posture, I think;
> My favorite idea is still flame bird with Dick, but I think it is out of menu.
> 
> What I don't like is how the characters have no evolution learning with mistakes, Damian is like Naruto saying in loud voice he is going to become Hokage and being completely impulsive, what brings problems he can't deal with, he should be more smart than that...


Heh, yeah I see what you mean. Honestly I didn't even realize how similar those two are. "I am Damian Wayne, and I am going to become Batman! Believe it, Drake!"

----------


## Light of Justice

> I think Damian's still got a long while of Robin left in him. 
> 
> I think a better question is if we'll see Batman and Robin as a team again in the next few years.


Don't we have upcoming Robin and Batman books? I think we can see Batman and Robin as a team again sooner than we thought. The question is, which Robin? Tim hasn't changed his Robin costume and I have no idea what to call him now. Other solicits also didn't mention Tim's hero name.

I remember Williamson said that Damian will be off Batman's grid for like 8 issues, so 8 months.

(By the way, that...story...from the latest Batman Black and White doesn't count. *spoilers:*
 whoever wrote that issue, how old do you think Damian is? 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Astralabius

> I'm tired of the same old story, too, but I think I think it's part of a pattern inadvertently created by writers who are unable to quite grasp the intricacies and nuances of his character. Whenever Damian "regresses" or his arrogance flairs up again, it's because he's faced with a new and unfamiliar situation. In Ben Percy's TT, it's because it's his first time running a team with all new people he's unfamiliar with. In today's issue, he's participating in a tournament run by a group he should be aware, but was kept from him. Even Super Sons, when not only is he interacting with someone his own age, but someone that can actually put up with him long enough for him to lower his guard.
> 
> I won't go so far as to sayhis bravado is a defense mechanism, but it certainly is a default for him when faced with something he hasn't faced before.


I get that this can simply be seen as Damian's go to reaction to new people, but since DC keeps forgetting all about his previous relationships the second he's in a new book it's just beginning to feel lke Damian is stuck.

----------


## Astralabius

> This is the most valid question I've seen in a while. I'd say yes. Bruce and Damian need to bond both as heroes and as a family. This Robin series is about getting Damian onto the Hero's path again, but he still needs guidance. 
> 
> Bruce needs to step up and power through all of Damian's rage and bluster and be a responsible parent. I know Batdad isn't what most fans would want, but that doesn't mean DC should just gloss over it like the last few years. We've seen how that's effected Damian.


I can't respect a hero who neglects his kids, so making Bruce a better parent again is actually pretty important to make me like Batman again.

----------


## Astralabius

> Don't we have upcoming Robin and Batman books? I think we can see Batman and Robin as a team again sooner than we thought. The question is, which Robin? Tim hasn't changed his Robin costume and I have no idea what to call him now. Other solicits also didn't mention Tim's hero name.
> 
> I remember Williamson said that Damian will be off Batman's grid for like 8 issues, so 8 months.
> 
> (By the way, that...story...from the latest Batman Black and White doesn't count. *spoilers:*
>  whoever wrote that issue, how old do you think Damian is? 
> *end of spoilers*


Do you mean that "Robin and Batman" book they teased a few weeks ago.
I'm still wondering if that's just going to be an, probably out of continuity, anthology for stories about all the different Batman and Robin teams.
Tynion said he knew nothing about it when someone asked him and since he's the main Batman writer and a huge Tim fan I would assume he would know about it if it was canon and involved Tim as a main character.

Williamson said we can expect Robin to cross over with Batman around the end of the year.

----------


## Shen

Just read the scans for Robin #1 and, it was pretty good. 

Really liking the way things are going. They did say they'd explain why the big names aren't there for the tournament, but to namedrop Bronze Tiger, Richard Dragon and Lady Shiva in one panel was surprising. 

All in all, it stays consistent with Damian's attitude and overconfidence. And from here we'll hopefully see him grow. I know he's done this whole cycle already and to reset his development kinda sucks, but I like it this way. 

A clean slate, and a new beginning.

Also, Black and White was fun. It looks like it's supposed to be around the first time Bruce and Damian became a team. 

If that's the case, then I guess you could explain Damian's actions as a way of showing off his worth to his dad. And this is exactly what I'd want them to be like in normal continuity. That last panel made me smile. 

Basically, every story in this issue was a good read, but my favorites were Nightwing's and Two-Face's short stories.

----------


## adrikito

One writer makes his work correctly and 2 characters can be considered the FINEST DUO for no reason..  :Frown: 

https://www.cbr.com/superman-super-s...ds-finest-duo/

They are IGNORING *Dick and Damian Dynamic* existence for One Issue.. HOW SAD.

----------


## Shen

> They are IGNORING Dick and Damian relationship existence here.. HOW SAD.
> 
> https://www.cbr.com/superman-super-s...ds-finest-duo/
> 
> One writer makes his work correctly and 2 characters can be considered the FINEST DUO for no reason..


Huh, well what are ya gonna do? Besides, it's just a title that's supposed to grab your attention, I don't consider it to be true.

People like what's happening in the _NOW_ so I'm not surprised they wouldn't think of Dickbats and Dami being the FINEST DUO. 

I'm actually happy they're bringing back a friendship with Jon and Dami, it'll be nice for them to support each other in main continuity. Plus with the roles reversed, I'd like to see their dynamic whenever they bump into one another XD.

----------


## adrikito

Dick was who reformed Damian(he made more for Damian than ANYONE) but... 

Like everything the pass of years make the people forget important things like this one and the Character that is Considered your Best Friend(or brother) can be replaced for another person for one good scene.

I am calling it "Good scene" without saw it. Never liked this friendship between the humiliations that Damian had in the First Supersons(Probably in the next ones too) *and the Damijon ship existence*. Even one place like deviantart is not safe from that.  :Mad:  

Fortunately I almost renounced to find Damian fanarts. Not interested in the KID PORN that Damijon created. Now I even dislike see them together. Maybe it was a Good Decision make a random that JL Batman and not Damian.

----------


## Shen

> Dick was who reformed Damian(he made more for Damian than ANYONE) but... 
> 
> Like everything the pass of years make the people forget important things like this one and the Character that is Considered your Best Friend(or brother) can be replaced for another person for one good scene.
> 
> I am calling it "Good scene" without saw it. Never liked this friendship between the humiliations that Damian had in the First Supersons and the Damijon ship existence. Even one place like deviantart is not safe from that.  
> 
> Fortunately I almost renounced to find Damian fanarts. Not interested in the KID PORN that Damijon created now I even dislike see them together.


Big D and Little D, I'll always treasure their bond. Even if you don't see it much nowadays. 

It's true that recent years haven't been kind to them or their relationship (e.g. Damian had to stop Dick's best friend's heart to save the timeline, Ric Grayson, Dick being an actual 'Dick' when he spoke to the Titans about Damian) but that's unfortunately what has happened, we can't change that.

A lot's happened to them both, and their interactions were limited - so it's no wonder DC opted to develop Damian's relationship with 'Kent Boi'. They were gonna lead Damian down a completely different path, then did a 180 when things fell through.

People get shipped together for simply talking to one another, or even disagreeing. _Sexual Tension_ they'll tell you, but they're just wrong. And stupid. And time spent that you won't get back.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> One writer makes his work correctly and 2 characters can be considered the FINEST DUO for no reason.. 
> 
> https://www.cbr.com/superman-super-s...ds-finest-duo/
> 
> They are IGNORING *Dick and Damian Dynamic* existence for One Issue.. HOW SAD.


World's Finest isn't a Batman and Robin thing, it's a Batman and Superman title.

----------


## Frontier

The young "World's Finest..."

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> The young "World's Finest..."


Superman and Robin

----------


## Shen

> Superman and Robin


According to Rora and Challenge of the Supersons - yep.

----------


## Blue22

> Dick was who reformed Damian(he made more for Damian than ANYONE) but... 
> 
> Like everything the pass of years make the people forget important things like this one and the Character that is Considered your Best Friend(or brother) can be replaced for another person for one good scene.
> 
> I am calling it "Good scene" without saw it.


And honestly....As a someone who actually does like Super Sons, the scene itself wasn't even that good. It felt less like a genuine attempt to write those two together again and more like Damian was being used as a mouthpiece to hype up Taylor's run.

That said, it's no wonder his relationship with Jon is constantly painted as his most important one ever. Colin (his real first friend) doesn't exist anymore (for now). Tomasi and Gleason are the only ones at DC who care about Maya. He burned all bridges with both his old Titans teams (three teams if Johns' run is back in continuity). And when was the last time he and Dick ever actually hung out/teamed up with just the two of them? One arc in Nightwing's rebirth run? When all of these relationships aren't getting the attention that they should, I can't fault people for thinking him being friends with Superman's kid is the best thing he's ever done.

As for the shippy stuff. That's just something you gotta get used to in fandoms (or just avoid them altogether. It's why I stopped going on tumblr). I wouldn't let it be the thing that sours you to a certain concept or relationship. Everyone gets shipped with everyone. Scour through enough fanfics and tumblr pages and you'll find people who ship Damian and Dick. Or Bruce with ALL of the Robins. You'll be hard pressed to find any platonic relationships that fans don't twist into romantic ones. There were plenty of sick things regarding Damian, well before Jon existed.

----------


## adrikito

> People get shipped together for simply talking to one another, or even disagreeing. _Sexual Tension_ they'll tell you, but they're just wrong. And stupid. And time spent that you won't get back.


I knew that Supersons was more to show Superkid to the world than Damian but. Even leaving it I was unable to forget it. The consequences made me reduce my search for Damian fanarts..  :Frown: 

I heard once that Damian has A LOT OF FEMALE FANS and that.. They can be involved in this ship creation.

I can see both kissing and don´t care but when the images are a little extreme I think... I see Superkid in his *KID FORM.* The people understands that even if is a drawing they are drawing a kid porn? 

Damian case was a little similar because he had 10 few months before he appeared with 13.. Only PEDOPHILE PEOPLE can draw these things.  :Mad:

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> And honestly....As a someone who actually does like Super Sons, the scene itself wasn't even that good. It felt less like a genuine attempt to write those two together again and more like Damian was being used as a mouthpiece to hype up Taylor's run.


Well, coming from the kid who previously saw himself as Batman's heir by birthright, it makes sense he'd hype Jon up to take the mantle.

----------


## Blue22

> I knew that Supersons was more to show Superkid to the world than Damian but. Even leaving it I was unable to forget it. The consequences made me reduce my search for Damian fanarts.. 
> 
> I heard once that Damian has A LOT OF FEMALE FANS and that.. They can be involved in this ship creation.
> 
> I can see both kissing and don´t care but when the images are a little extreme I think... I see Superkid in his *KID FORM.* The people understands that even if is a drawing they are drawing a kid porn? 
> 
> Damian case was a little similar because he had 10 few months before he appeared with 13.. Only PEDOPHILE PEOPLE can draw these things.


Eh. I wouldn't be a fan of anything (comics included) if I let a fandom's behavior dictate my enjoyment of something. 

Besides, just from going through a quick deviantart search right now, I'm not seeing a lot of Damian fanart that has anything to do with Jon. The_ closest_ I saw to anything "shippy" was actually with Dick.




> Well, coming from the kid who previously saw himself as Batman's heir by birthright, it makes sense he'd hype Jon up to take the mantle.


I didn't say it was out of character or that his opinion on the matter didn't make sense (well...kinda. Especially when he's on his own little path of independence right now). I'm just saying that it came off as less of a genuine conversation between friends and more like the same "This is what's gonna happen. Accept it" moment that Lobdell wrote between Babs and Ric. Only way more inappropriate considering his main concern was less about being Superman and more about...you know...his Dad dying. He just kinda skirted all around that to say "Yeah sucks. But you're gonna be Superman. You have no say in the matter." (Even though he definitely does)

Like holy shit that conversation sucked, the more that I think about it. That might actually be worse than the interactions they had whenever Bendis wrote them....might. I hope that didn't actually make Jon feel better....because it shouldn't have.

----------


## adrikito

> And honestly....As a someone who actually does like Super Sons, the scene itself wasn't even that good. It felt less like a genuine attempt to write those two together again and more like Damian was being used as a mouthpiece to hype up Taylor's run.
> 
> That said, it's no wonder his relationship with Jon is constantly painted as his most important one ever. Colin (his real first friend) doesn't exist anymore (for now). Tomasi and Gleason are the only ones at DC who care about Maya. He burned all bridges with both his old Titans teams (three teams if Johns' run is back in continuity). And when was the last time he and Dick ever actually hung out/teamed up with just the two of them? One arc in Nightwing's rebirth run? When all of these relationships aren't getting the attention that they should, I can't fault people for thinking him being friends with Superman's kid is the best thing he's ever done.
> 
> As for the shippy stuff. That's just something you gotta get used to in fandoms (or just avoid them altogether. It's why I stopped going on tumblr). I wouldn't let it be the thing that sours you to a certain concept or relationship. Everyone gets shipped with everyone. Scour through enough fanfics and tumblr pages and you'll find people who ship Damian and Dick. Or Bruce with ALL of the Robins. You'll be hard pressed to find any platonic relationships that fans don't twist into romantic ones. There were plenty of sick things regarding Damian, well before Jon existed.


I see.. So it was Taylor.. Maybe for this the people loved it. If I am not wrong he transformed one shit Damian(Injustice I) in a better person in Injustice II(I think that he both wrote both comics but the people liked it).. and then had the chance to use him sometimes. So he is a little used to him. and Supersons fans enjoyed it...

I miss Gleason and Maya.. Even watching Steph as his older sister I liked Maya.. It was a sad day when Gleason left.. For maya and for damian..



> And when was the last time he and Dick ever actually hung out/teamed up with just the two of them? One arc in Nightwing's rebirth run? When all of these relationships aren't getting the attention that they should, I can't fault people for thinking him being friends with Superman's kid is the best thing he's ever done.


MONEY is the answer to this.. We made the people think this we will continue making it. I heard that they made like 2 supersons volumes and even know there is another serie even if superkid is not a kid now..

IS SAD THAT EVEN ROBIN... Avoided one Grayson image(why not use DICK-Bats with Damian Robin?) in the cover and prefered add Superkid.

I stopped using TUMBLR before this watching how Toxic is..

I am not someone who dislikes homo people(I never had problems with Aqualad in TT who was like Damian apprentice).. In Damian and Grayson case I would understand it. Anyway I would avoid the images too.




> There were plenty of sick things regarding Damian, well before Jon existed.


It seems that I was lucky never learning them... Or erasing them from my mind.

----------


## Blue22

Speaking of Damian fanart, DAMN this hit me right in the feels. Bring Colin back, you cowards!

https://www.deviantart.com/otterthea...olin-676564406




> I am not someone who dislikes Gays.. At least in Damian and Grayson case I can understand it. Even if like here I will avoid the images.


Er...Considering Damian is a child and Dick is a grown ass man who's typically in his mid to late 20s, you should probably be less understanding of that than him being shipped with someone closer to his age lol

Especially since Dick is....you know....his brother.

----------


## adrikito

> Er...Considering Damian is a child and Dick is a grown ass man (and his brother), you should probably be less understanding of that than him being shipped with someone closer to his age lol


I respect Grayson and I started to see Damian as a teen(not a child) when he made 13...

MORE THAN ANOTHER THIS is... THE RESPECT that I have for Dick Grayson that will make me dislike it less. With Superkid I only saw Damian(before leave Supersons) in humiliating situations to even consider him his friend.(I see him more like a Black Cat who gives bad luck).

I already said that I would avoid the images.. My mind would not be ready for this neither.  :EEK!:   :EEK!:  I would only hate it less.

----------


## Blue22

> I respect Grayson and I started to see Damian as a teen(not a child) when he made 13...
> 
> MORE THAN ANOTHER THIS is... THE RESPECT that I have for Dick Grayson that will make me see it Less Disgusting.
> 
> I already said that I would avoid the images.. My mind would not be ready for this neither.


It's not really about respect for the characters so much as it's just...one being significantly more wrong than the other. If people wanna ship DamiJon (provided it's nothing sexual) that's still weird and I hate the idea that two people can't be friends without instantly being paired together. But it's not really crossing any serious lines. The same can't be said for any scenario involving Dick and Damian. That's just wrong from every conceivable angle.

----------


## adrikito

> It's not really about respect for the characters so much as it's just...one being significantly more wrong than the other. If people wanna ship DamiJon (provided it's nothing sexual) that's still weird and I hate the idea that two people can't be friends without instantly being paired together. But it's not really crossing any serious lines. The same can't be said for any scenario involving Dick and Damian. That's just wrong from every conceivable angle.


Both ships are wrong.. UNFORTUNATELY People likes Ship EVERYTHING.

I saw in 4chan thinking in SHIP damian with this Flatline or Rose(18 years in Priest Run)... But watching DC attempts of ships with Damian(Emiko and Djinn) failures I am unable to ship him with ANYBODY.


FANMADE character or this Oliver Grayson existed in another universe?  :Confused: 

oliver_and_damian_by_jasontodd1fan.jpg

----------


## Frontier

> Superman and Robin


I guess that is how it will be soon. 

(I don't like Jon being Superman, by-the-by).

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> I guess that is how it will be soon. 
> 
> (I don't like Jon being Superman, by-the-by).


I've got a feeling you're not alone on that.

----------


## Shen

> It's not really about respect for the characters so much as it's just...one being significantly more wrong than the other. If people wanna ship DamiJon (provided it's nothing sexual) that's still weird and *I hate the idea that two people can't be friends without instantly being paired together.* But it's not really crossing any serious lines. The same can't be said for any scenario involving Dick and Damian. That's just wrong from every conceivable angle.


Such is life in the comic book fandom. Can you imagine if these people thought like that in real life? Oh wait, they actually might. 

Some genetic trees deserve to be cut.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> Such is life in the comic book fandom. Can you imagine if these people thought like that in real life? Oh wait, they actually might. 
> 
> *Some genetic trees deserve to be cut.*


Damian fans are even starting to sound like him!

----------


## Shen

> Both ships are wrong.. UNFORTUNATELY People likes Ship EVERYTHING.
> 
> I saw in 4chan thinking in SHIP damian with this Flatline or Rose(18 years in Priest Run)... But watching DC attempts of ships with Damian(Emiko and Djinn) failures I am unable to ship him with ANYBODY.
> 
> 
> FANMADE character or this Oliver Grayson existed in another universe? 
> 
> oliver_and_damian_by_jasontodd1fan.jpg


Ships are a thing you need to get used to, trust me. Even If you're trying to avoid em, they'll show up.

As for the 4chan ships, I mean we just met Flatline. She looks cool and has that mysterious/dangerous vibe that Wayne men go for; but it's waay too early to ship them just yet. I could see her as a possible rival/frenemy that _may_ grow into a ship eventually. God help him if he breaks her heart tho, she'll return the favor. 

Rose is a no, he's way too young for her currently and they have more of a brother/sister vibe than anything. I've been waiting for more of their banter ever since their TT run together.

Djinn was just a confused damsel in distress and he was her knight in stretchy spandex. She was a crush and he cared about her, but nothing more. (Plus she kinda blamed everything on him and then everyone agreed with that, so god no.)

I actually shipped Damian and Emiko a bit during their initial interactions (that blush when she kissed him XD), then their TT happened and that wasn't expanded upon, in fact they both discussed and defended their respective crushes when talking about the traitor - which I found rather amusing. 

I'm still sore about how things ended between them, they just had to punctuate that run with Damian hurting the one person who stood by him - and killed for him. Damnit DC.

I've never heard of Oliver Grayson, but I see that 'O' on his suit, and all I'm getting are Omni-man vibes.

----------


## Shen

> Damian fans are even starting to sound like him!


Heh, that was me long before I read about the murder midget.

----------


## Rac7d*

B91BDB45-1D03-4AEB-95D7-EC79088A22CE.jpg
Need some whole topic change
Happy national superhero day

----------


## Light of Justice

> Do you mean that "Robin and Batman" book they teased a few weeks ago.
> I'm still wondering if that's just going to be an, probably out of continuity, anthology for stories about all the different Batman and Robin teams.
> Tynion said he knew nothing about it when someone asked him and since he's the main Batman writer and a huge Tim fan I would assume he would know about it if it was canon and involved Tim as a main character.
> 
> Williamson said we can expect Robin to cross over with Batman around the end of the year.


Oh yeah. Forget that Tynion doesn't know anything about that book, so maybe it will be out of continuity.




> Eh. I wouldn't be a fan of anything (comics included) if I let a fandom's behavior dictate my enjoyment of something. 
> 
> Besides, just from going through a quick deviantart search right now, I'm not seeing a lot of Damian fanart that has anything to do with Jon. The_ closest_ I saw to anything "shippy" was actually with Dick.


Had to admit, while the amount of Damijon fanarts are diminished currently, they were massive when Supersons reach its peak popularity. Some of them even entered my Pinterest timeline back when I don't give any shit about American comics, like a comic strip when Damian fell on top of Jon (or vice versa, I don't remember) and they accidentally kissed, Damian's brothers recorded it, and accidentally broadcasted it in front of a gala, to Bruce and Clark's horror. Back then, my only thought is "Aren't Bruce and Clark Batman and Superman's real names? They have sons?", searched for their history, and found myself attracted to Damian and don't really care for Jon. Obviously, I'm not a Damijon shipper, despite the fact that the first time I know about Damian's existence is from Damijon comic strips. Probably that's why I'm kinda lenient for those kinds of fanart. I don't enjoy them but I admit that they have the ability to draw (unlike me) so I will enjoy what I like and ignore what I don't like. They're random people for me anyway, I'm not obliged to correct their preference or force them to understand my moral view. 






> I didn't say it was out of character or that his opinion on the matter didn't make sense (well...kinda. Especially when he's on his own little path of independence right now). I'm just saying that it came off as less of a genuine conversation between friends and more like the same "This is what's gonna happen. Accept it" moment that Lobdell wrote between Babs and Ric. Only way more inappropriate considering his main concern was less about being Superman and more about...you know...his Dad dying. He just kinda skirted all around that to say "Yeah sucks. But you're gonna be Superman. You have no say in the matter." (Even though he definitely does)
> 
> Like holy shit that conversation sucked, the more that I think about it. That might actually be worse than the interactions they had whenever Bendis wrote them....might. I hope that didn't actually make Jon feel better....because it shouldn't have.


DCeased Damian is often said to be the best future Damian alternative, but I can't feel Damian in him at all. He looks like a random broody guy who acts as Jon's cheerleader for me. Definitely prefer Batman666 and Beyond Damian than DCeased Damian. Speaking about DCeased, I heard that Taylor plans to write more of that book in the future. Good for him and those who enjoy it. I won't read that, though.  




> Ships are a thing you need to get used to, trust me. Even If you're trying to avoid em, they'll show up.
> 
> As for the 4chan ships, I mean we just met Flatline. She looks cool and has that mysterious/dangerous vibe that Wayne men go for; but it's waay too early to ship them just yet. I could see her as a possible rival/frenemy that _may_ grow into a ship eventually. God help him if he breaks her heart tho, she'll return the favor. 
> 
> Rose is a no, he's way too young for her currently and they have more of a brother/sister vibe than anything. I've been waiting for more of their banter ever since their TT run together.
> 
> Djinn was just a confused damsel in distress and he was her knight in stretchy spandex. She was a crush and he cared about her, but nothing more. (Plus she kinda blamed everything on him and then everyone agreed with that, so god no.)
> 
> I actually shipped Damian and Emiko a bit during their initial interactions (that blush when she kissed him XD), then their TT happened and that wasn't expanded upon, in fact they both discussed and defended their respective crushes when talking about the traitor - which I found rather amusing. 
> ...


Meh, 4chan is mostly shitposters. I don't think anyone truly ships Damian and Flatline now, at least not in the same intensity as Damirae or DamiDjinn. Personally, I don't ship Damian with any girl. My feeling for Damian on relationship is like when I see Bruce with any woman. These idiots are too emotionally constipated to understand a woman's heart, let alone build a harem

----------


## Eto

Finally got to read the issue.
STRONG start, both the narrative and the art sold me on this one.
Let's go Damian.
Tournament arc. :Cool:

----------


## adrikito

> I actually shipped Damian and Emiko a bit during their initial interactions (that blush when she kissed him XD), then their TT happened and that wasn't expanded upon, in fact they both discussed and defended their respective crushes when talking about the traitor - which I found rather amusing.


I too.. He was angry when she was attacked and even visited her in the hospital.

But after saw Glass opinion about it and see that this ship would not be available in that TT run I renounced to it.

----------


## Shen

> I too.. He was angry when she was attacked and even visited her in the hospital.
> 
> But after saw Glass opinion about it and see that this ship would not be available in that TT run I renounced to it.


I'd be fine if it was just the ship, but Emiko's personality was different the entire run compared to what I was used to. Plus her unexplained hatred for 'The Other' that had been her main reason for signing up with the Titans wasn't explored. I'm just salty at all the potential they squandered.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I'd be fine if it was just the ship, but Emiko's personality was different the entire run compared to what I was used to. Plus her unexplained hatred for 'The Other' that had been her main reason for signing up with the Titans wasn't explored. *I'm just salty at all the potential they squandered.*


That seems to be a running theme the last few years with DC.

----------


## Astralabius

> That seems to be a running theme the last few years with DC.


Yep. Messy storylines that don't end up making much sense and squandered potential is a good summary of my reading experience with DC.

----------


## Astralabius

I can't even answer a simple question like "did Damian kill Brother Blood?" because we never saw it happen, we only had Damian admitting that he did it and then it was never brought up again.
Now Damian is magically back to not wanting to kill, but you can bet your ass the question "should Damian kill or not?" is going to come up in a tournament where you can only win by killing your opponement.

----------


## Shen

> I can't even answer a simple question like "did Damian kill Brother Blood?" because we never saw it happen, we only had Damian admitting that he did it and then it was never brought up again.
> Now Damian is magically back to not wanting to kill, but you can bet your ass the question "should Damian kill or not?" is going to come up in a tournament where you can only win by killing your opponement.


It doesn't even matter if he killed him or not. Remember when Emiko killed Deathstroke mid-way through the series? Had a funeral and for him and everything. 

Then dude just comes back at the end of the run like nothing. Brother Blood is a staple of the Titans, so I won't be surprised if his followers or some other plot device revive him. 

What's the point of the No-Kill rule if DC will just bring that person back at some point in time? That's why I loved DCeased. Every death had an impact. There was a finality in their death, because you knew they wouldn't be able to return.

Even Alfred, if what most fan theories about Damian's plans are true, _probably_ won't be gone for long. As for the island, I'm pretty sure nobody can really die on it. Either they'd toss dead fighters in a Lazarus Pit, or the whole Island itself is magical. (Either way, Flatline can become really OP with the way her abilities work). And they probably are only allowed to be revived a certain amount of times, then it's real death.

----------


## Astralabius

> It doesn't even matter if he killed him or not. Remember when Emiko killed Deathstroke mid-way through the series? Had a funeral and for him and everything. 
> 
> Then dude just comes back at the end of the run like nothing. Brother Blood is a staple of the Titans, so I won't be surprised if his followers or some other plot device revive him. 
> 
> What's the point of the No-Kill rule if DC will just bring that person back at some point in time? That's why I loved DCeased. Every death had an impact. There was a finality in their death, because you knew they wouldn't be able to return.
> 
> Even Alfred, if what most fan theories about Damian's plans are true, _probably_ won't be gone for long. As for the island, I'm pretty sure nobody can really die on it. Either they'd toss dead fighters in a Lazarus Pit, or the whole Island itself is magical. (Either way, Flatline can become really OP with the way her abilities work). And they probably are only allowed to be revived a certain amount of times, then it's real death.


For me it's not really about if Brother Blood stays dead or not, it's just that I don't see a reason to still care if Damian has to choose between killing and not killing again, since they very carelessly had him cross the line in Teen Titans and now I'm not even sure if it happened or not.
But for character developement to matter I kinda need to know stuff like that.
Is Damian working hard to not kill after he committed a murder in Teen Titans? Or is this written under the assumption that Damian didn't kill anyone since he killed Otto Netz to save Bruce?

----------


## Shen

> For me it's not really about if Brother Blood stays dead or not, it's just that I don't see a reason to still care if Damian has to choose between killing and not killing again, since they very carelessly had him cross the line in Teen Titans and now I'm not even sure if it happened or not.
> But for character developement to matter I kinda need to know stuff like that.
> Is Damian working hard to not kill after he committed a murder in Teen Titans? Or is this written under the assumption that *Damian didn't kill anyone since he killed Otto Netz to save Bruce?*


God, if they ignore the NoBody storyline and the Year of Atonement, I'll be really annoyed. Some of his best moments came from his relationship with Maya. 

Considering the direction they want him to go in, I'd say he'd eventually decide not to kill after struggling with his inner demons (literally, when Ra's appears).

There's no way fans would accept a watered-down version of everything that's happened to him, and I'm sure Williamson would know that. So he should portray him as trying his best to reign-in his killer instincts - which would be a challenge on that Island.

----------


## Astralabius

> God, if they ignore the NoBody storyline and the Year of Atonement, I'll be really annoyed. Some of his best moments came from his relationship with Maya. 
> 
> Considering the direction they want him to go in, I'd say he'd eventually decide not to kill after struggling with his inner demons (literally, when Ra's appears).
> 
> There's no way fans would accept a watered-down version of everything that's happened to him, and I'm sure Williamson would know that. So he should portray him as trying his best to reign-in his killer instincts - which would be a challenge on that Island.


Hm? I didn't suggest DC is trying to ignore that. Otto Netz happened after Nobody.
It's the recent killing of Brother Blood that DC doesn't want to bring up again.

Damian already seems to have decided on not killing after Teen Titans.
He didn't try to kill Hush, he wanted to see him in prison.
He didn't kill the league of lazarus henchman in Demon or Detective when Talia asked him to do it.
The referee in his fight against King Snake tells him he would have payed Damian more money if he killed King Snake, something Damian only comments on with a "TT"
My problem is that if we assume that Damian did kill Brother Blood then we didn't get to see Damian come to the conclusion that he made a mistake and shouldn't kill from then on.
There was no character arc explaining this change, he just went back to not killing.
Which, at least for me, means there aren't a lot of stakes here. If Damian can just switch between killing and not killing without needing a good explanation for either decision, then why should I still care?

----------


## Shen

> Hm? I didn't suggest DC is trying to ignore that. Otto Netz happened after Nobody.
> It's the recent killing of Brother Blood that DC doesn't want to bring up again.
> 
> Damian already seems to have decided on not killing after Teen Titans.
> He didn't try to kill Hush, he wanted to see him in prison.
> He didn't kill the league of lazarus henchman in Demon or Detective when Talia asked him to do it.
> The referee in his fight against King Snake tells him he would have payed Damian more money if he killed King Snake, something Damian only comments on with a "TT"
> My problem is that if we assume that Damian did kill Brother Blood then *we didn't get to see Damian come to the conclusion that he made a mistake and shouldn't kill from then on.*
> There was no character arc explaining this change, he just went back to not killing.
> Which, at least for me, means there aren't a lot of stakes here. If Damian can just switch between killing and not killing without needing a good explanation for either decision, then why should I still care?


Yeah I get ya. I'm just saying they probably wanna retconn what's happened to him, so I hope they don't overwrite those storylines just coz his only connection to it isn't around for him. I don't want a repeat of Colin.

As it is, he's already been shown not killing when he's had the chance - as you said. It is disappointing that we didn't get to see him make that choice on paper, but it is implied that he has decided to stop killing. 

Maybe when he's tested on the Island, we'll at least get some flashbacks or something. That is, if he's even killed Brother Blood, and his thoughts afterwards. 

I've always thought a great way to explain it would be Heretic framing him for the murder - I mean he's a clone of the kid so it's plausible. 
There were many unanswered questions, but the issue where Jon showed up to talk to him - Damian was emphasizing the use of fear in his monologue. Maybe him taking responsibility for the murder is his way of instilling fear in criminals - that he's not messing around. 

Besides, it wouldn't be too surprising to anyone who knew him. Sad, but not something OOC for someone who's literally been through hell and back. He knew that.

Anyway, that was the theory I came up with, when I saw the issue.

----------


## Blue22

I'm gonna have to agree with Astralabius here. I do love that Damian is back to not killing. But considering his decision to start killing again is the final straw that led to his falling out with the Titans and breaking away from the Batfamily...it just feels like a waste for him to just change his mind off-panel like that. 

One second he's like "RAWR! WE HAVE TO KILL AGAIN AND YOU WILL ALL JOIN ME! FUCK YOU BATMAN! FUCK ROBIN!", then literally the next time we see him he's just....magically back to his old self (sans Robin identity), getting along well enough with Bruce (even complimenting him), and not even attempting to kill the bad the guy that they teamed up against. It just feels like there was a big chunk of development for him that we didn't see but we're supposed to just go with it because what Glass did to him was the unpopular route. And I get that but like...damn. That was a kind of a big thing that they're sweeping under the rug just so they can act like Bruce and Damian's troubles started with Alfred's death. Unless there's some kind of flashback planned later on, it's a bit sloppy on both Tomasi and Williamson's parts.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

Jorge Corona, the artist of Robin #4, shared a panel.

----------


## Astralabius

> I'm gonna have to agree with Astralabius here. I do love that Damian is back to not killing. But considering his decision to start killing again is the final straw that led to his falling out with the Titans and breaking away from the Batfamily...it just feels like a waste for him to just change his mind off-panel like that. 
> 
> One second he's like "RAWR! WE HAVE TO KILL AGAIN AND YOU WILL ALL JOIN ME! FUCK YOU BATMAN! FUCK ROBIN!", then literally the next time we see him he's just....magically back to his old self (sans Robin identity), getting along well enough with Bruce (even complimenting him), and not even attempting to kill the bad the guy that they teamed up against. It just feels like there was a big chunk of development for him that we didn't see but we're supposed to just go with it because what Glass did to him was the unpopular route. And I get that but like...damn. That was a kind of a big thing that they're sweeping under the rug just so they can act like Bruce and Damian's troubles started with Alfred's death. Unless there's some kind of flashback planned later on, it's a bit sloppy on both Tomasi and Williamson's parts.


In a similar vein, I'm happy that Bruce and the family are looking for Damian now, but...why?

Bruce didn't miss Damian when he first left him after No Justice.
Bruce did pretty much nothing about his problems with Damian until the second Teen Titans annual.
He let Damian walk away despite the fact that the kid had just killed someone, attempted to kill two more people and injured Emiko. He seemed more concerned about moving out of Wayne Manor, mourning Alfred and the rise of the anti vigilante movement.
Bruce simply waited for Damian to come home on his own and ask for his job back for some reason. He also blamed almost everything that went wrong on Damian's personality and age.
At the end of the arc he let Damian disappear again and went back to moving out of Wayne manor.

And now he has suddenly come to the conclusion that Damian shouldn't have to take care of himself, admits that he made many mistakes with his son and the whole family is looking for the kid.
I appreciate this developement, but I can't explain it.
Damian has been missing for awhile now, so what prompted this?

----------


## Astralabius

> Jorge Corona, the artist of Robin #4, shared a panel.


Looks nice!

----------


## Blue22

> In a similar vein, I'm happy that Bruce and the family are looking for Damian now, but...why?
> 
> Bruce didn't miss Damian when he first left him after No Justice.
> Bruce did pretty much nothing about his problems with Damian until the second Teen Titans annual.
> He let Damian walk away despite the fact that the kid had just killed someone, attempted to kill two more people and injured Emiko. He seemed more concerned about moving out of Wayne Manor, mourning Alfred and the rise of the anti vigilante movement.
> Bruce simply waited for Damian to come home on his own and ask for his job back for some reason. He also blamed almost everything that went wrong on Damian's personality and age.
> At the end of the arc he let Damian disappear again and went back to moving out of Wayne manor.
> 
> And now he has suddenly come to the conclusion that Damian shouldn't have to take care of himself, admits that he made many mistakes with his son and the whole family is looking for the kid.
> ...


You forgot the part where he never once consoled him over having to watch Alfred die. All because he followed Bruce's exact orders. He just let Damian go on believing the whole thing was his fault. I know there are people who hated seeing the whole family go off on Bruce (again) in the memorial book. But damn that was cathartic after what he did. Or rather...what he didn't do.

----------


## Rac7d*

Why are you guys asking thease questions?
Bruce gets written by dozens of writers 
One hated Damian and made him into the angry violent rebellious teen with a parent who couldn’t be bothered to care
Brother blood will get resurrected when he is needed again so he doesn’t matter anyway

----------


## Shen

> *One second he's like "RAWR! WE HAVE TO KILL AGAIN AND YOU WILL ALL JOIN ME! FUCK YOU BATMAN! FUCK ROBIN!"*, then literally the next time we see him he's just....magically back to his old self (sans Robin identity), getting along well enough with Bruce (even complimenting him), and not even attempting to kill the bad the guy that they teamed up against. It just feels like there was a big chunk of development for him that we didn't see but we're supposed to just go with it because what Glass did to him was the unpopular route. And I get that but like...damn. That was a kind of a big thing that they're sweeping under the rug just so they can act like Bruce and Damian's troubles started with Alfred's death. Unless there's some kind of flashback planned later on, it's a bit sloppy on both Tomasi and Williamson's parts.


XD I think I woke up my entire house laughing at this. 

Yea I agree with you guys, it'll be very disappointing if that isn't addressed at some point. That said, I'm putting my faith in Williamson. He seems to understand the fans and it's still early days.

Besides, if they're following Shounen there's definitely gonna be some flashbacks and reveals that makes the mc more special.

----------


## Shen

> You forgot the part where he never once consoled him over having to watch Alfred die. All because he followed Bruce's exact orders. He just let Damian go on believing the whole thing was his fault. I know there are people who hated seeing the whole family go off on Bruce (again) in the memorial book. But damn that was cathartic after what he did. Or rather...what he didn't do.


*Damian:* _'runs away feeling like crap'_
*Barbara:* _'Goes off on Bruce like he deserves, emphasizing his responsibility to Damian'_
*Tim:* _'Interrupts this beautiful moment'_
*Me:* "... I understand, but that was a dick move. Carry on."

----------


## Astralabius

> Why are you guys asking thease questions?
> Bruce gets written by dozens of writers 
> One hated Damian and made him into the angry violent rebellious teen with a parent who couldn’t be bothered to care
> Brother blood will get resurrected when he is needed again so he doesn’t matter anyway


Because I like knowing what a conflict or story is about and DC made Damian's storyline so messy that it's really hard to tell.

I already explained that my problem doesn't lie with wether Brother Blood comes back or not. You're missing the point.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Why are you guys asking thease questions?
> Bruce gets written by dozens of writers 
> One hated Damian and made him into the angry violent rebellious teen with a parent who couldnt be bothered to care
> Brother blood will get resurrected when he is needed again so he doesnt matter anyway


Agree. I'm pleased that at least someone decided to write the family looking for him

----------


## Astralabius

> You forgot the part where he never once consoled him over having to watch Alfred die. All because he followed Bruce's exact orders. He just let Damian go on believing the whole thing was his fault. I know there are people who hated seeing the whole family go off on Bruce (again) in the memorial book. But damn that was cathartic after what he did. Or rather...what he didn't do.


I filed that under "Bruce did pretty much nothing until the second Teen Titans annual"
No idea why people thought Bruce was being treated unfairly, King's Bruce was an idiot and editorial had been dumb for telling their writers to make the characters all have a falling out with Bruce in 2018 without ever forcing King to at least mention it in his title.
This was needed.

No, my problem is more that since DC handled Bruce's reaction to Damian seperating from him rather badly for so damn long that if I try to look at the bigger picture I can't really tell what's motivating him right now.
Damian was his son and shouldn't have had to take care of himself in 2018 too. So I would be happy if Williamson could explain a bit more what changed Bruce's mind.

----------


## dietrich

The Robin series was all out at the one and only comic shop so not read the book. The reviews seem positive so can't wait. Will head Manchester [ closet large city ] tomorrow to get a copy

----------


## Shen

> The Robin series was all out at the one and only comic shop so not read the book. The reviews seem positive so can't wait. Will head Manchester [ closet large city ] tomorrow to get a copy


I hope you're able to find one. I couldn't get my hands on one, and normally books with Damian aren't to hard to come by. Guess he's getting popular around here  :Big Grin:

----------


## Shen

> FANMADE character or this Oliver Grayson existed in another universe? 
> 
> Attachment 109002


Holy crap, I was right! Oliver Grayson is Omni-Man's son. He's basically a Kryptonian like Jon, but they're from the Image Comics Universe.

Did some digging after the season finale of Invincible. Extremely Bloody and graphic show, but it sure left an impression.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I think Damian has an indecision every time he thinks about to kill, he is not like Deadpool that uses his gun and katana without thinking, so keep the conflict "kill or not to kill" is valid for me. Kill anyone, kill for give an example, kill for revenger a brother, kill for a prime, kill for not die are different, I think a well written story can keep the "kill or not kill" conflict for a long time. 

Also, I see how he is confused because don't kill put him in a Batpath and kill put him in an Al Ghul path, it's hard to make your own path this way, how he can be rebel or appreciated if each decision makes opposite reaction for his parents? Separated parents.... You know

----------


## Rebeca Armus

And I am happy finally someone remembered Damian loves his pets.  :Embarrassment: 
[IMG]https://***********/www.popsfera.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/BD9487D2-FAE0-4E23-BFEF-3CEFCBC15B24.jpeg?resize=666%2C1024&ssl=1[/IMG]

----------


## adrikito

I am a little lost.. We can call her a HERO?

https://screenrant.com/dc-comics-fla...ath-dc-comics/

----------


## Shen

> I am a little lost.. We can call her a HERO?
> 
> https://screenrant.com/dc-comics-fla...ath-dc-comics/


I don't think so. She was made to be a sort of sidekick for Lord Death Man, and he's a Batman villain. Sites like Screenrant like to stretch the truth, so you shouldn't always believe what they say.

----------


## Shen

> I think Damian has an indecision every time he thinks about to kill, he is not like Deadpool that uses his gun and katana without thinking, so keep the conflict "kill or not to kill" is valid for me. Kill anyone, kill for give an example, kill for revenger a brother, kill for a prime, kill for not die are different, I think a well written story can keep the "kill or not kill" conflict for a long time. 
> 
> Also, I see how he is confused because don't kill put him in a Batpath and kill put him in an Al Ghul path, it's hard to make your own path this way, how he can be rebel or appreciated if each decision makes opposite reaction for his parents? Separated parents.... You know


Yeah, kid's got a really tough choice when considering his lineage. It isn't as simple as Good or Evil, Bruce and Talia are the two people who's attention he craves the most. It's especially tough on a kid who's trying to make everyone else happy. He may act out, but deep down he wants to have moments a normal family would. 

Attachment 109095

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> Yeah, kid's got a really tough choice when considering his lineage. It isn't as simple as Good or Evil, Bruce and Talia are the two people who's attention he craves the most. It's especially tough on a kid who's trying to make everyone else happy. He may act out, but deep down he wants to have moments a normal family would. 
> 
> Attachment 109095


Too bad his mom's crazy for coco puffs!

----------


## Jackalope89

> Too bad his mom's crazy for coco puffs!


Dad isn't much better.

His best adult role model was Dick and Steph (pre-New52). Alfred is still dead. And he and Jason have never been close (despite so many similarities).

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> Dad isn't much better.
> 
> His best adult role model was Dick and Steph (pre-New52). Alfred is still dead. And he and Jason have never been close (despite so many similarities).


Bruce is _waaaaaaaaaay_ better but I understand you were being hyperbolic.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Too bad his mom's crazy for coco puffs!


what this should means?? XD

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> what this should means?? XD


His mother is insane.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> His mother is insane.


but why coco puff? looks delicious XD so funny

----------


## Astralabius

> Bruce is _waaaaaaaaaay_ better but I understand you were being hyperbolic.


Is he? Better maybe, but not by much. 

He's authoritative, neglectful, extremely demanding, emotionally distant and so obesessed with his code, mission and his own myth that's he's constantly making decisions without even considering his responsibilities to his loved ones. He can't accept Damian making decisions he wouldn't make, going so far as telling him that he doesn't like him if he does that.
He needlessly risked Damian's life for his own gains in City of Bane and his actions played an important part in Damian's death in Batman Inc. 

I will give him that he gave Damian Titus and revived Damian when he was dead, but Talia would probably have done the same thing eventually if she had been alive, considering that she had not wanted Damian to die. 

Damian's life is still full of neglect and trauma even four years after meeting Bruce.

----------


## Shen

> *Damian's life is still full of neglect and trauma even four years after meeting Bruce.*


You're right about that (and everything else tbh), and I think that's sad because Damian's life wasn't as Princely as many are lead to believe before he even stepped foot in Gotham.

He didn't really understand that what he was doing was morally wrong, he just did everything he could to gain the respect and _love_ of his mother and grandfather because that's what he was raised to want. 

Moments like when he killed all of Goliath's kind, and demanded that the fuzzball fight him, all he got was a lick on the nose - and he broke down in tears. Deep down he began to understand how monstrous his actions were.

C4GXtKN.jpg

----------


## prepmaster

Damian is a brat that never learns. He was supposed to be killed off even by his own creator.

----------


## Shen

> Damian is a brat that never learns. He was supposed to be killed off even by his own creator.


Give him the lifespan of whomever your favorite character is, and you'll certainly see growth. But you don't strike me as a person who'd do that, considering your reputation here.

----------


## prepmaster

> Give him the lifespan of whomever your favorite character is, and you'll certainly see growth. But you don't strike me as a person who'd do that, considering your reputation here.


Sorry but since his original creator doesnt want to keep him, i dont see other writers would be able to develop him into something else. Only a few make the character somehow work. Damian is saved because of his marketing values as son of Batman.

----------


## Astralabius

> Give him the lifespan of whomever your favorite character is, and you'll certainly see growth. But you don't strike me as a person who'd do that, considering your reputation here.


I say we just ignore him, he never has anything important to say anyway.

----------


## Shen

> Sorry but since his original creator doesnt want to keep him, i dont see other writers would be able to develop him into something else. Only a few make the character somehow work. Damian is saved because of his marketing values as son of Batman.


There's no need to apologize, friend. Your inability to see the development of a character is nothing to be ashamed of, even if the evidence of a possibility is there. Just as Damian is defined by his father, you too are defined by your opinion. Which we value very highly. Thank you for your input  :Big Grin:

----------


## Shen

> I say we just ignore him, he never has anything important to say anyway.


Be like Dami: If you see a stray puppy, you toss him a bone. Plus, I like to hear other people's opinions on the character - makes me appreciate him more.

----------


## Astralabius

> Be like Dami: If you see a stray puppy, you toss him a bone. Plus, I like to hear other people's opinions on the character - makes me appreciate him more.


There are people who have a different opinion that is worth discussing and then there are trolls.

----------


## Shen

> There are people who have a different opinion that is worth discussing and then there are trolls.


XD well, you've got me there. 

I just feel bad, neglecting them like Bruce neglected Damian. Even if they are trolls, animal cruelty never was my style.

----------


## prepmaster

> There are people who have a different opinion that is worth discussing and then there are trolls.


What makes your opinion of Damian more worthy than those that dont like Damian? He is a brat that never learns. People like seeing him being humiliated.

----------


## dietrich

> Sorry but since his original creator doesnt want to keep him, i dont see other writers would be able to develop him into something else. Only a few make the character somehow work. Damian is saved because of his marketing values as son of Batman.


And Batman was originally an cheap Shadow rip off mixed in with a good deal of Spring Heel Jack who was under performing until Dick Grayson was introduced which saved the character.

Batman's original creators couldn't make him work and were going to get rid of him until Robin Dick Grayson came in increasing sales by 40%. That's how batman was saved and then thanks to a combination of writers, trends and time became the icon he is today.


Damian isn't saved because of the marketing value of Batman's son. He was given the chance because of his value as the son of Batman. That is what gave him his chance.

Damian saved himself by being a solid and interesting character that6 LOTS of writers and creators enjoy using and contrary to what ignorant fans might parrot is actually the most consistent bat character especially when only bruce and harley have more frequent use by numerous writers.

That garbage about only a few writers making him work is simply that garbage and easily disproved since there's actual objective evidence that counters that.

Dceased
Batman: Brave and the Bold Animated Universe
Supersons
Injustice [Both the comics and game]
The DCAMU [one of the most popular characters, part of the universes most popularship, Son of Batman is one of the DcAMU's most profitable movies, Damian is the character that got the best reviews in the DCAMU's and DC's most profitable animated to dvd movie to date JLD:AW]
Harley Quinn Show

 and this is before we get to the comics where like I said earlier he has had a shit ton of writers writing him and they6 all manage to do something with him.

I don't mind that part of Damian's rise to popularity is thanks to Batman.

Just like I love the fact that Dick Grayson Robin was the character that saved The Batman from cancellation and mediocrity.

You are correct.

Damian's creator didn't intend for him to be a mainstay but  Morrison is very proud and happy that he's still around Fucking up DC's continuity.

Those are his actual words.

And somehow lots of other writers and creators HAVE developed him.

lots of writers HAVE made him work and are still doing.

#It's okay if you don't like the character, it's okay to share your personal opinion but it's not okay to lie or talk BS.

----------


## dietrich

I agree that people like to see Damian humiliated. Damian is his father's son and he inherited the Bat hate just like he inherited the Wayne doucheness 


[but at least he learns fast than his father and unlike his dad he actually manages to retain some of what he has learnt. Repeat with me Bruce " soft bodied kids aren't the best side kicks"  :Stick Out Tongue: ]


he is also a badass that punches way above his weight and is designed to be divisive. Damian is an arrogant, smack talking brat with too much privileged and the greatest shit eating grin I've ever seen. 

He shit talks veterans and has dropped/humiliated a bunch of long standing faves + he can be annoying so of course there are haters who like seeing him humiliated [that hate propelled Injustice Damian to one of the most mained characters in that game as well as making him one of the most notorious] Sometimes hate can have positive outcomes

I don't think there's anything wrong in fans wanting to see a character they hate humbled. 

I do think that anyone who thinks that Robin is going to be a series where we see Damian humiliated hasn't been paying attention to the interviews.

----------


## prepmaster

> Damian isn't saved because of the marketing value of Batman's son. He was given the chance because of his value as the son of Batman. That is what gave him his chance.


Sure a chance to become a villain.

----------


## dietrich

> Sure a chance to become a villain.


Having fun fishing I see.
Or are you picking cherries?

----------


## Jackalope89

> Bruce is _waaaaaaaaaay_ better but I understand you were being hyperbolic.


Bruce doesn't kill. But he's manipulative, emotionally distant, abusive in more than one way, neglectful...

A good example of that can actually be seen in Batman & Robin #20 of the New52 (with Jason Todd at that).

----------


## dietrich

> Bruce doesn't kill. But he's manipulative, emotionally distant, abusive in more than one way, neglectful...
> 
> A good example of that can actually be seen in Batman & Robin #20 of the New52 (with Jason Todd at that).


The fact that Bruce is supposed to be a hero makes him worse/more harmful than Talia. Talia is a villain who grew up in a cult. Damian must realise now that his mum and the LOA are not the norm. The are what normal society consider bad/in the wrong. Bruce and Batman are seen are morally good. Held up as examples of goodness and positivity.

Damian is well and truly fucked

----------


## Shen

> Bruce doesn't kill. But he's manipulative, emotionally distant, abusive in more than one way, neglectful...
> 
> A good example of that can actually be seen in Batman & Robin #20 of the New52 (with Jason Todd at that).


B-b-b-but, you can't say that! _He'S bAtMaN!_, he's _sOoOo SmArT aNd GoOd_ he can't be wrong! I bet if he had *PrEp-TiMe* he'd be even better. He'd be the *BESTEST EVERRRR*. ~ Some fanboy who can't accept Bruce's faults, idk.

----------


## adrikito

ROBIN 2 TEASE.. Without Spoil anything:

Robin2 tease.jpg

https://twitter.com/Williamson_Josh/...02606945382404

Who are these 2 closely to RESPAWN(Slade/deadpool copy)?

----------


## Astralabius

> ROBIN 2 TEASE.. Without Spoil anything:
> 
> Robin2 tease.jpg
> 
> https://twitter.com/Williamson_Josh/...02606945382404
> 
> Who are these 2 closely to RESPAWN(Slade/deadpool copy)?


That might be Copperhead and Black Swan. Williamson mentioned them in an interview.

----------


## Restingvoice

Yeah they said his Copperhead is a new character, and Black Swan is new too

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> Bruce doesn't kill. But he's manipulative, emotionally distant, abusive in more than one way, neglectful...
> 
> A good example of that can actually be seen in Batman & Robin #20 of the New52 (with Jason Todd at that).


And Talia killed Damian. Let's not try and actually pretend like Bruce is by any means worse than Talia. He didn't indoctrinate Damian into a life of murder, she did.

----------


## Rac7d*

I wish his book was bimonthly

----------


## Jackalope89

> And Talia killed Damian. Let's not try and actually pretend like Bruce is by any means worse than Talia. He didn't indoctrinate Damian into a life of murder, she did.


I did say that Bruce doesn't kill. Short of that though, he's pretty awful in his own right.

----------


## Astralabius

> And Talia killed Damian. Let's not try and actually pretend like Bruce is by any means worse than Talia. He didn't indoctrinate Damian into a life of murder, she did.


The Heretic killed Damian. Not Talia. Talia killed the assassins that shot at Damian and eventually killed the Heretic for his continuous disobedience. She told Ra's that she hadn't thought Damian would be there.

Damian told Alfred his reasons for leaving the batcave and joining the fight. He wanted to prove Bruce wrong, who in their last conversation told Damian that he could never be Batman, could not be Robin either and that the only way out Bruce saw for them was to send him back to Talia because otherwise he would doom them all.

Bruce and Talia were both involuntarily at fault for Damian's death.


Talia intoctrinated him into a life of murder, Bruce is indoctrinating him in an endless fight against crime that has lead Damian to suffer terrible injuries, mental trauma and three, if Damian really died ln Robin #1, four deaths. 
The cause may be better, but it's not good for Damian either.

----------


## dietrich

> And Talia killed Damian. Let's not try and actually pretend like Bruce is by any means worse than Talia. He didn't indoctrinate Damian into a life of murder, she did.


Talia didn't kill Damian, Heretic went against her orders and killed Damian.

Sure Talia put Damian in a position that got him killed which lets be honest Bruce has done. What happened to damian was what happened to Jason. Adults responsible for their care put them in the line of fire.

And on the subject of indoctrination, Bruce does the same. He did indoctrinate Tim Drake another man's kid into his war. The whole pathetic Bruce allowed them because they asked is bonk. he is the adult. 

Talia is a bad guy for sure [she blew up Bludhaven] but those two charges you bring up against her;  causing the death of a minor and indoctrination /corrupting a minor are crimes that Bruce is also guilty of.

----------


## dietrich

> ROBIN 2 TEASE.. Without Spoil anything:
> 
> Robin2 tease.jpg
> 
> https://twitter.com/Williamson_Josh/...02606945382404
> 
> Who are these 2 closely to RESPAWN(Slade/deadpool copy)?


These characters all look so good. Still haven't read the 1st issue [couldn't get my hands on a physical copy], looking forward to getting to know these guy's

----------


## Shen

> ROBIN 2 TEASE.. Without Spoil anything:
> 
> Robin2 tease.jpg
> 
> https://twitter.com/Williamson_Josh/...02606945382404
> 
> Who are these 2 closely to RESPAWN(Slade/deadpool copy)?


I can see Mileena/Skarlet, Shang Tsung, Jade/Tanya, Kitana and Scorpion in this image XD. 

Looks really colorful and badass. It's gonna be a looong month.

----------


## Astralabius

> Talia is a bad guy for sure [she blew up Bludhaven]


Debatable.
Talia had been killed and revived with the pits countless times by her sister Nyssa in Death and the Maidens in 2003/2004 to brainwash her into becoming evil. Context matters.

----------


## Shen

RCO018_1579690128.jpg

Batman doesn't kill. But he can hit you with an oncoming truck. Like, how did she not go splat from that??

----------


## Astralabius

> RCO018_1579690128.jpg
> 
> Batman doesn't kill. But he can hit you with an oncoming truck. Like, how did she not go splat from that??


The power of Batman's no-kill-rule is so strong that his enemies simply don't die by his actions even when they really really should.

Imagine Damian pulling something like that. All the comic book news sites would call him unworthy of Batman's legacy.

----------


## Shen

> Debatable.
> Talia had been killed and revived with the pits countless times by her sister Nyssa in Death and the Maidens in 2003/2004 to brainwash her into becoming evil. Context matters.


Didn't Ra's train her similarly? Idk where, but I heard he trained her to death, dumped her into a Lazarus Pit and trained her again. Until he was happy with her progress. Kinda sounds like fanfiction, buuut also like Ra's at the same time.

Regardless, I enjoy seeing her on the pages.

----------


## Astralabius

> Didn't Ra's train her similarly? Idk where, but I heard he trained her to death, dumped her into a Lazarus Pit and trained her again. Until he was happy with her progress. Kinda sounds like fanfiction, buuut also like Ra's at the same time.
> 
> Regardless, I enjoy seeing her on the pages.


Sounds like what King wrote in Rules of Engagement, but I'm not gonna check, I hated King's run.
DC has retconned a lot about the al Ghuls. Originally Talia wasn't even a trained assassin. Her creator described her as a pacifist who was forced to do bad things out of loyalty to her father.
Ra's was a lot more reasonable and loving back then too.

----------


## Astralabius

Speaking of comic book news sites, can someone please shut down screenrant?

"Without Batman, Robin Finally Gets The Beating He Deserves

Robin's first fight in the legendary Lazarus League ends in a humiliating defeat from the character Flatline, befitting the Boy Wonder's massive ego"

"Batman Knows Robin is The Worst Sidekick He Could Ever Have

While The Dark Knight may carefully plan and prepare, Damian as Robin can hilariously ruin it all in an instant in DC's latest Batman story"

----------


## Shen

> Speaking of comic book news sites, can someone please shut down screenrant?
> 
> "Without Batman, Robin Finally Gets The Beating He Deserves
> 
> Robin's first fight in the legendary Lazarus League ends in a humiliating defeat from the character Flatline, befitting the Boy Wonder's massive ego"
> 
> "Batman Knows Robin is The Worst Sidekick He Could Ever Have
> 
> While The Dark Knight may carefully plan and prepare, Damian as Robin can hilariously ruin it all in an instant in DC's latest Batman story"


Hah, pay no attention to that drivel. Screenrant's word carries as much weight as Superboy Prime's and Prepmaster's. 

In fact, they'd make great writers for the site.

----------


## Astralabius

> Hah, pay no attention to that drivel. Screenrant's word carries as much weight as Superboy Prime's and Prepmaster's. 
> 
> In fact, they'd make great writers for the site.


I usually don't, it's just that this hate towards child characters that is very prevalent on many comic book news site kinda disturbs me.
I would be embarrassed to put something like this on the internet.

----------


## prepmaster

> I usually don't, it's just that this hate towards child characters that is very prevalent on many comic book news site kinda disturbs me.
> I would be embarrassed to put something like this on the internet.


So you say people should be embarrassed for disliking a brat? Bias much?

----------


## adrikito

> Speaking of comic book news sites, can someone please shut down screenrant?
> 
> "Without Batman, Robin Finally Gets The Beating He Deserves
> 
> Robin's first fight in the legendary Lazarus League ends in a humiliating defeat from the character Flatline, befitting the Boy Wonder's massive ego"
> 
> "Batman Knows Robin is The Worst Sidekick He Could Ever Have
> 
> While The Dark Knight may carefully plan and prepare, Damian as Robin can hilariously ruin it all in an instant in DC's latest Batman story"


DAMIAN haters?? They are stupid




> Yeah they said his Copperhead is a new character, and Black Swan is new too


I see




> I wish his book was bimonthly


I would like the same.

----------


## dietrich

That screenrant piece is very biased and comes from a place of hate.

Damian is intentionally designed to be very divisive. He was designed to be the guy you love to hate. Hating him isn't stupid. Every character has haters that's to be expected. 

Trolls however are stupid.

Don't feed The Trolls.

----------


## Rac7d*

I’m watching HunterXHunter and Gon and killua are the anime Jon and Damian I really wish DC would milk the superson brand

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Do Dick and Alf have haters? They are so nice.... (=u=)

I still don't like Damian being impulsive in a dumb way, I love more when he is this smart brat, I do enjoy a well done plan and just scream "everybody against me now!!!" Was kind disappoint. I loved all another scenes with he fighting against Snake Guy without speaking nothing and so a sarcastic-brat-smart commentary, or when he was reading the manga was so good!
As someone that need to write sometimes I know it is easier to do, or maybe they think it get more readers? I don't know...
I even wait to see if I get used with this last scenes but still bother me in comparison with the rest.

----------


## garazza

One of the reasons why I like Damian so much as a character is because his characters lends himself to being more silly and over-the-top in some stories (like Super Sons) and more mature and arrogant in other stories (like Batman and Robin and Robin: Son of Batman) and still be unmistakably Damian.

A lot people struggle with this dichotomy, preferring one over the other, but in my opinion, that dichotomy _is_ the character.

----------


## Shen

> One of the reasons why I like Damian so much as a character is because his characters lends himself to being more silly and over-the-top in some stories (like Super Sons) and more mature and arrogant in other stories (like Batman and Robin and Robin: Son of Batman) and still be unmistakably Damian.
> 
> A lot people struggle with this dichotomy, preferring one over the other, but in my opinion, that dichotomy _is_ the character.


Yeah, I like that about him. You can definitely see Damian in both his Supersons incarnation and his R:SOB incarnation. Though using him as a plot device for humor in Supersons _can_ get annoying at _certain_ times, other times it's exactly what Damian would say and do XD 

DJk0_trXkAAHBqm.jpg

----------


## prepmaster

> Having fun fishing I see.
> Or are you picking cherries?


The whole point of him entering a fight to the death tourament is to prove his worth to his mother and become a leader of an assassin group. Sounds "heroic" to me.

----------


## Shen

I actually wanted Williamson to write Damian like Bakugo in Season 1 of MHA: an uber-talented kid with anger issues and overconfidence, who actually has the skills to back it up. 

Then he went to Yuuei and saw that he was just a big fish in a small pond. He was gradually demoralized over like 2 episodes, and saw that he wasn't as special as he thought he was. He even admitted he couldn't beat Todoroki in a 1v1 and that he agreed with Yaoyorozu that he made stupid mistakes in his fight with Deku.

I can kinda see that here with the Robin series. He's already been demoralized by Flatline, Connor can be his Todoroki and I'm sure he's gonna be berated/laughed at by Rose. 

They should've saved the cliffhanger for the second book. Like if he fought King Snake in the Lazarus tournament itself. It would have more meaning, and when the time came for his victory, he'd have his conflict with killing/not killing the father of Alfred's killer(Is it mandatory on the Island to kill? WILL he _kill_ King Snake? Find out next time in Robin: Son of a B***h).

It may have been more impacting if book 1 built him up to be this overconfident badass, and book 2 ended with the girl stealing his heart. But, shock value sells and keeps people asking questions so...

----------


## Fergus

Robin 1 lived up to the hype and then some. Liked the bit with Alfred and Damian making sure his pets were taken care of before setting off was a nice touch. 

Flatline's move def was a HxH reference. Damian biting the dust was unexpected. Not sure if that was supposed to be shocking? I mean this is what the 3rd time for the kid? 

There's no stakes offing a character who has beaten death more than once, comes from a family [both sides] of folks who beat death on the regular and famously said that Death is a grey area. I just hope that Damian going forward doesn't abide by the 'to the death' mantra of the competition.

I would like him to make a point of not ending his opponents.

Looking forward to issue 2

----------


## Fergus

It seems the DCeased story isn't over yet. Tom Taylor let it slip

https://twitter.com/TomTaylorMade/st...83881128464387

----------


## DarkViKing

Not a Surprise if we sooner or later get new stuff...DCeased was better than expected and got a lot of love from what i have seen.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> I actually wanted Williamson to write Damian like Bakugo in Season 1 of MHA: an uber-talented kid with anger issues and overconfidence, who actually has the skills to back it up. 
> 
> Then he went to Yuuei and saw that he was just a big fish in a small pond. He was gradually demoralized over like 2 episodes, and saw that he wasn't as special as he thought he was. He even admitted he couldn't beat Todoroki in a 1v1 and that he agreed with Yaoyorozu that he made stupid mistakes in his fight with Deku.
> 
> I can kinda see that here with the Robin series. He's already been demoralized by Flatline, Connor can be his Todoroki and I'm sure he's gonna be berated/laughed at by Rose. 
> 
> They should've saved the cliffhanger for the second book. Like if he fought King Snake in the Lazarus tournament itself. It would have more meaning, and when the time came for his victory, he'd have his conflict with killing/not killing the father of Alfred's killer(Is it mandatory on the Island to kill? WILL he _kill_ King Snake? Find out next time in Robin: Son of a B***h).
> 
> It may have been more impacting if book 1 built him up to be this overconfident badass, and book 2 ended with the girl stealing his heart. But, shock value sells and keeps people asking questions so...


But I feel that's what Williamson did? At first Damian defeated King Snake, a known martial artist, with ease, showing that he has the skills. But then, because of his arrogance, he's later defeated. And the pacing in comics is very different than an anime, being usually pretty fast. Besides, Williamson just did this cliffhanger of will or won't he kill in the back-ups, so, honestly, it would have looked pretty bad if he did it again. To me, he did the right choice. 

But this is just first issue of a long arc, we need to wait for the story to develop. It has a very strong emotional base established, and this is clearly meant to grow Damian emotionally and as a fighter.

----------


## Fergus

> Not a Surprise if we sooner or later get new stuff...DCeased was better than expected and got a lot of love from what i have seen.


Agreed.

I just hope Taylor's current heavy workload doesn't delay or affect the next instalment of the series.

----------


## Shen

> But I feel that's what Williamson did? At first Damian defeated King Snake, a known martial artist, with ease, showing that he has the skills. But then, because of his arrogance, he's later defeated. And the pacing in comics is very different than an anime, being usually pretty fast. Besides, Williamson just did this cliffhanger of will or won't he kill in the back-ups, so, honestly, it would have looked pretty bad if he did it again. To me, he did the right choice. 
> 
> But this is just first issue of a long arc, we need to wait for the story to develop. It has a very strong emotional base established, and this is clearly meant to grow Damian emotionally and as a fighter.


Exactly, I wanted things to go this way, or at least similarly. The one thing *I* didn't like though was that in the mini-series the '_will he kill_' aspect was pretty brushed over. 

I mean, Talia had it handled anyway - Damian said so himself, he didn't need to step in. To me that wasn't him saying *No* to killing, that was him saying "Ooh, shiny glowy green tats! You do you, mom." 

It's kinda lame, considering everything that's led him to this point, to just let his recent homicidal behavior go and not address it on the pages properly. With the tournament, and apparently how they fight to the death, it would've been more poetic to see him reject killing King Snake. That's just my opinion though, the comic still looks good and I'm still hopeful for the future.

----------


## dietrich

> The whole point of him entering a fight to the death tourament is to prove his worth to his mother and become a leader of an assassin group. Sounds "heroic" to me.


Not only do you seem to have forgotten what we are talking about, I don't think you understood the story so far but that's irrelevant since it's got jack to do with his creator wanted him dead. 

however I will applaud you for being honest enough to concede and admit that creators ARE doing something with the character. That they are trying to develop him. Grant had Damian die in protection of others and he's a villain in fighting tournament [by your interpretation]

I give you a D- for trying cos bro your trolling needs work. at the very least stay on point. I feel like you're not even trying  :Frown:

----------


## dietrich

> One of the reasons why I like Damian so much as a character is because his characters lends himself to being more silly and over-the-top in some stories (like Super Sons) and more mature and arrogant in other stories (like Batman and Robin and Robin: Son of Batman) and still be unmistakably Damian.
> 
> A lot people struggle with this dichotomy, preferring one over the other, but in my opinion, that dichotomy _is_ the character.


As much as i enjoyed Supersons, I think that damian's character ended up compromised as the straight man but most of all it spawned a fanbase that seemed to believe that damian starts and ends with Supersons.

Damian in TT - it's because jon isn't there
Damian needs his best friend, he's acting out because Jon's not there to be a positive influence.
Jon bring's out the best in Damian
jon makes Damian more likeable [Okay that one is fair. I just like full flavoured Damian much more] 

These vocal ignorant and disrespectful fans who ignore everything that came before. Everything that shaped Damian and only view him as one half of a duo.

So disrespectful of the character that to them Damian has no agency or will without Jon. Damian, who had already saved the world twice before jon was even conceptualised.

These fans so entitled that they are still banging on about deaging Jon just so he can go on adventures with Damian. Pressuring creators constantly. Little wonder that in Robin 1 Jon is the other important figure in Damian's journey thus far. [Dick who]

I enjoyed Supersons but thanks to some of the fans not so much anymore. I'm glad Bendis aged jon up and I hope DC doesn't go back on the decision. 

The individual characters were being swallowed by the partnership and for a character like Damian [who has a very strong presence], that takes a lot.

Damian reads manga - it's jon's influence. I swear if I see one more person post that on social media I'll have a fit. 

That turned into a vent. wasn't directed at you @ garazza

----------


## Restingvoice

> As much as i enjoyed Supersons, I think that damian's character ended up compromised as the straight man but most of all it spawned a fanbase that seemed to believe that damian starts and ends with Supersons.
> 
> Damian in TT - it's because jon isn't there
> Damian needs his best friend, he's acting out because Jon's not there to be a positive influence.
> Jon bring's out the best in Damian
> jon makes Damian more likeable [Okay that one is fair. I just like full flavoured Damian much more] 
> 
> These vocal ignorant and disrespectful fans who ignore everything that came before. Everything that shaped Damian and only view him as one half of a duo.
> 
> ...


Just for the manga part, did Damian read manga before meeting Jon?

----------


## Eckri

> Just for the manga part, did Damian read manga before meeting Jon?


No indication really if Jon did influence Damian to read manga.
This comes from the fact during the Supersons' run there was a poster of kid Goku and Naruto in Jon's room.
Heck if anything it was Maps who influenced Damian to read manga. 
There's really no indication who influenced Damian to read manga, nor indication before meeting Jon he ever read some, heck maybe he just saw snippets of panels without context in manga, found them interesting, and took the liberty of reading one himself.

----------


## Restingvoice

> No indication really if Jon did influence Damian to read manga.
> This comes from the fact during the Supersons' run there was a poster of kid Goku and Naruto in Jon's room.
> Heck if anything it was Maps who influenced Damian to read manga. 
> There's really no indication who influenced Damian to read manga, nor indication before meeting Jon he ever read some, heck maybe he just saw snippets of panels without context in manga, found them interesting, and took the liberty of reading one himself.


I'll take it. I don't remember if Maps read manga. I only remember D&D, I mean Serpents and... what was it

----------


## PowerPlay25

> One of the reasons why I like Damian so much as a character is because his characters lends himself to being more silly and over-the-top in some stories (like Super Sons) and more mature and arrogant in other stories (like Batman and Robin and Robin: Son of Batman) and still be unmistakably Damian.
> 
> A lot people struggle with this dichotomy, preferring one over the other, but in my opinion, that dichotomy is the character.


This.  I really love Damian's interactions with almost everyone.   The Marquee's being Dick, Talia and Jon.

Dick Grayson - I don't think his guard is ever as fully down than when he is with Dick.   Dick is his big brother, friend, mentor and one of the few people Damian allows to posture as an authority figure.  While Dick is usually indulgent with Damian, he doesn't allow himself to be run over rough shod.

Talia - I like Damian's dynamic with her because it shows so much about who he is.   They were raised nearly the same, only Damian turned his life around, Talia never did.   The Al Ghul Haughty, superiority, cunning and macabre sense of detachment is always there.  But at the same time, Talia and Damian always know where the other is and for the most part what the other is up too.   Even after all Talia has done and her outlook that Damian turned is back on her, they still care about each other deeply.   It's a complicated dynamic.

Jon - I like seeing Damian interact with people his own age (I liked the short-lived Colin Wilkes as well).   Jon is an alien and has had a more traditional childhood (ignoring the horrific growth spurt) than Damian.   They both have heroic ambitions but Jon's are more compassionate and that always came through during their interactions.   I think the perfect example of their dynamic is when Talia was plotting to assassinate Lois Lane.   Jon's speech to Damian about how everyone matters and etc.   Jon's innate empathy, opposite Damian's innate callousness always entertains me.    Added bonus, I love when the Al Ghuls interact with Superman.   They seem to have such a distaste for him (Talia more than Damian) it cracks me up.

----------


## dietrich

> I'll take it. I don't remember if Maps read manga. I only remember D&D, I mean Serpents and... what was it


Damian a kid with an eclectic interest in entertainment, hobbies, knowledge of cultures, back ground, education and love of the arts and yet fans don't go for the most obvious likelihood that he discovered manga on his own rather they choose to put forward being introduced to it by jon or maps [that's even more far fetched since they have had what 3 interactions and in none of those did we ever get any indication that maps is even into manga WTF is going on with these ridiculous HC's]

Art, violin, video games, literature, music, drama, dressing up, playing pretend, mimicking movies, chess and so much more are all some of his hobbies we've seen.

Damian's interest in manga is no doubt an addition from Williamson and Gleb being fans, the nature of  the theme of the Robin series and manga's being very much a part of today's pop culture/trend.


Poor maya and colin. At least throw them in as possible friends who might have influenced Damian before Maps. A character that has even less of a relationship with Damian than Suren

----------


## dietrich

> Just for the manga part, did Damian read manga before meeting Jon?


Does jon read manga now? Has he ever read manga? Posters of an anime character doesn't mean he reads manga. he could just like anime or more likely it's an in joke like the Conner kent poster that was also a thing on his wall b4 Conner was even brought back. b4 Jon or even Superman met Conner in Rebirth.



this is from Superson 10

----------


## Shen

> Damian a kid with an eclectic interest in entertainment, hobbies, knowledge of cultures, back ground, education and love of the arts and yet fans don't go for the most obvious likelihood that he discovered manga on his own rather they choose to put forward being introduced to it by jon or maps [that's even more far fetched since they have had what 3 interactions and in none of those did we ever get any indication that maps is even into manga WTF is going on with these ridiculous HC's]
> 
> Art, violin, video games, literature, music, drama, dressing up, playing pretend, mimicking movies, chess and so much more are all some of his hobbies we've seen.
> 
> Damian's interest in manga is no doubt an addition from Williamson and Gleb being fans, the nature of  the theme of the Robin series and manga's being very much a part of today's pop culture/trend.
> 
> 
> Poor maya and colin. At least throw them in as possible friends who might have influenced Damian before Maps. A character that has even less of a relationship with Damian than Suren


I really liked the Manga idea. Even more when I read what was in the pages. It's about painting, one of Damian's hobbies from back when he was in the LoA. 

There's also the conversation in the manga that resonates with him, about how the character's parents tell him to always have a plan to be the best, but his friend tells him to forget about all that and find his own way. 

"Try to paint from the heart." To me, that page means a lot more than Damian's love for Manga. It's a reflection of his journey, and the path that's open for him to take. No Bats, no Demons, just Damian. I like that. 

Of course, Damian's like "Nah, you've gotta have a plan." but that's just classic Dami XD.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Damian a kid with an eclectic interest in entertainment, hobbies, knowledge of cultures, back ground, education and love of the arts and yet fans don't go for the most obvious likelihood that he discovered manga on his own rather they choose to put forward being introduced to it by jon or maps [that's even more far fetched since they have had what 3 interactions and in none of those did we ever get any indication that maps is even into manga WTF is going on with these ridiculous HC's]
> 
> Art, violin, video games, literature, music, drama, dressing up, playing pretend, mimicking movies, chess and so much more are all some of his hobbies we've seen.
> 
> Damian's interest in manga is no doubt an addition from Williamson and Gleb being fans, the nature of  the theme of the Robin series and manga's being very much a part of today's pop culture/trend.
> 
> 
> Poor maya and colin. At least throw them in as possible friends who might have influenced Damian before Maps. A character that has even less of a relationship with Damian than Suren





> Does jon read manga now? Has he ever read manga? Posters of an anime character doesn't mean he reads manga. he could just like anime or more likely it's an in joke like the Conner kent poster that was also a thing on his wall b4 Conner was even brought back. b4 Jon or even Superman met Conner in Rebirth.
> 
> 
> 
> this is from Superson 10


Of course it's an in joke, but if no other characters mention or make reference to it, then the closest reference will be taken. Did Maya have that reference or in joke? Suren won't since his appearance was limited to his clan. 

I know Damian knows his arts, classics, video games, netflix, twitter and Chirper and some pop culture on his own so it make sense that he would know manga on his own, but it's also fun to imagine him learning it from someone else who's shown to have that interest (or the closest possible one, like anime in-joke) otherwise he'll just be The Kid Who Knows Everything On His Own and don't need anyone else.

----------


## dietrich

> I really liked the Manga idea. Even more when I read what was in the pages. It's about painting, one of Damian's hobbies from back when he was in the LoA. 
> 
> There's also the conversation in the manga that resonates with him, about how the character's parents tell him to always have a plan to be the best, but his friend tells him to forget about all that and find his own way. 
> 
> "Try to paint from the heart." To me, that page means a lot more than Damian's love for Manga. It's a reflection of his journey, and the path that's open for him to take. No Bats, no Demons, just Damian. I like that. 
> 
> Of course, Damian's like "Nah, you've gotta have a plan." but that's just classic Dami XD.


I'm so glad that some one else noticed the content of the manga itself and that  it held as much significance for someone else beside me. Thank you.

I loved that so much. Such a small detail bit it means tons and speaks volumes about Williamson's love, knowledge and understanding of Damian.

I saw some spoilers and discuss before reading the actual  issue that had me groan [the whole humbling discuss] but having read the issue and in particular the manga I have total confidence in Williamson. He gets it. He knows Damian. How far the character has come and he's ready to take him to the next stage.

----------


## dietrich

> Of course it's an in joke, but if no other characters mention or make reference to it, then the closest reference will be taken. Did Maya have that reference or in joke? Suren won't since his appearance was limited to his clan. 
> 
> I know Damian knows his arts, classics, video games, netflix, twitter and Chirper and some pop culture on his own so it make sense that he would know manga on his own, but it's also fun to imagine him learning it from someone else who's shown to have that interest (or the closest possible one, like anime in-joke) otherwise he'll just be The Kid Who Knows Everything On His Own and don't need anyone else.


Damian IS sadly the kid who knows abnormally more should be possible thanks to his ahem ... intense upbringing. except he doesn't know something every kid takes for granted and most kids know. How to be a kid. That is what makes Jon unique in Damian's circle. Jon thought Damian how to be a kid.

Jon is the character that brings out Damian's kid side. I mean that's the whole concept behind Supersons. 

Jon doesn't need to introduce Damian to manga, he taught how to pretend fly, they started a garage band together and so much more that we actually saw in the comics.

Williamson introduced Damian to manga.

I forgot about twitter and netflix

----------


## Rac7d*

> Damian IS sadly the kid who knows abnormally more should be possible thanks to his ahem ... intense upbringing. except he doesn't know something every kid takes for granted and most kids know. How to be a kid. That is what makes Jon unique in Damian's circle. Jon thought Damian how to be a kid.
> 
> Jon is the character that brings out Damian's kid side. I mean that's the whole concept behind Supersons. 
> 
> Jon doesn't need to introduce Damian to manga, he taught how to pretend fly, they started a garage band together and so much more that we actually saw in the comics.
> 
> Williamson introduced Damian to manga.
> 
> I forgot about twitter and netflix


I don’t think that exclusively Jon’s to claims 
It was the upbringing of Dick and Alfred who contributed to that as well

----------


## dietrich

> I don’t think that exclusively Jon’s to claims 
> It was the upbringing of Dick and Alfred who contributed to that as well


I think you misunderstand, his intense upbringing is my nice way of phrasing his abusive and intense nurturing/training that aimed to create the next Alexander rather than allowing a child to be a child. That's not Dick or Alfred.

His learning to be a kid and the one in his circle who allows him to be a kid is Jon and Steph. Steph did that 1st.

Dick made him family, introduced him to the fact that love can be unconditional + so much more but I don't want this getting lengthy.

Alfred sent him away and is actually a lying manipulative shitbag to all the Batkids. He only truly cares about Master bruce.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> I think you misunderstand, his intense upbringing is my nice way of phrasing his abusive and intense nurturing/training that aimed to create the next Alexander rather than allowing a child to be a child. That's not Dick or Alfred.
> 
> His learning to be a kid and the one in his circle who allows him to be a kid is Jon and Steph. Steph did that 1st.
> 
> Dick made him family, introduced him to the fact that love can be unconditional + so much more but I don't want this getting lengthy.


Damian as the next Lex Luthor? Never thought of that before... Only if Jon Kent can be the next Joker!

----------


## Blue22

> I'm so glad that some one else noticed the content of the manga itself and that  it held as much significance for someone else beside me. Thank you.


Honestly, it was so on the nose, I didn't even think it needed to be mentioned lol

----------


## Shen

> Damian as the next Lex Luthor? Never thought of that before... Only if Jon Kent can be the next Joker!


Alexander the Great. Talia called him her Alexander, she was Queen Olympias and Bruce would be their King Philip.  The family Damian's always wanted.

----------


## Shen

> Honestly, it was so on the nose, I didn't even think it needed to be mentioned lol


It really was, but you'll be surprised how many of my friends just skimmed through it and thought it was *just* slice-of-life XD.

----------


## dietrich

> Damian as the next Lex Luthor? Never thought of that before... Only if Jon Kent can be the next Joker!


No not DC's Lex, Alexander The Great from history.

Damian did however date Lexi Luthor. Lex's daughter in Multiversity The Just

----------


## dietrich

> Honestly, it was so on the nose, I didn't even think it needed to be mentioned lol


All the comments I'd seen re that manga were suggestions about it being Jon's influence so glad others noticed the content. I thought it was a nice touch.

----------


## Shen

> No not DC's Lex, Alexander The Great from history.
> 
> *Damian did however date Lexi Luthor. Lex's daughter in Multiversity The Just*


"You're sick and twisted. All that stuff, Batman likes." XD I loved that relationship. I mean until, y'know... 

I kinda felt bad for Alexis.

----------


## dietrich

> "You're sick and twisted. All that stuff, Batman likes." XD I loved that relationship. I mean until, y'know... 
> 
> I kinda felt bad for Alexis.


I liked it too. I wish we got to see more of that world.

As much as I enjoyed the dynamic between Damian and Lexi I was more intrigued about Damian and Chris. Why does he REALLY have that lead lined wardrobe? 

I didn't buy the reason they gave.

----------


## Shen

> I liked it too. I wish we got to see more of that world.
> 
> As much as I enjoyed the dynamic between Damian and Lexi I was more intrigued about Damian and Chris. Why does he *REALLY* have that _lead lined wardrobe_? 
> 
> I didn't buy the reason they gave.


Oh god... how did I miss that?!

I think I ignored that and just assumed Damian was straight coz of Lex. Daaaaamn, Lexi was right! She was their number 1 shipper XD.

----------


## Blue22

> All the comments I'd seen re that manga *were suggestions about it being Jon's influence* so glad others noticed the content. I thought it was a nice touch.


Eh. That's a nice headcanon, I suppose. But yeah. I doubt it had anything to do with Jon. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if it was actually the other way around lol

----------


## CPSparkles

> Oh god... how did I miss that?!
> 
> I think I ignored that and just assumed Damian was straight coz of Lex. Daaaaamn, Lexi was right! She was their number 1 shipper XD.


I liked Lexi. She's spunky, diabolical and able to rock the Luthor baldness. 

I'm on board with her being The Just's SuperBat no 1 shipper.

Damian from the Just was for sure in the closet. Chris too. His attitude when he was asking Damian who his guest was was far too emotional and sulky.

It was like

Chris: "I can smell that cheap perfume. Where is she? Where is that hussy hiding"

Lexi still in the coat that Damian tossed over her trembles in his lead lined closet  :Smile: 
End Scene.

Damian from that Universe had such a suave Bat suit.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Eh. That's a nice headcanon, I suppose. But yeah. I doubt it had anything to do with Jon. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if it was actually the other way around lol


I like Damian converting Jon from an anime only to a manga reader.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Damian as the next Lex Luthor? Never thought of that before... Only if Jon Kent can be the next Joker!


A half Kryptonian Joker! Lord help the DC Universe.
And don't give Scott Snyder ideas.

----------


## Fergus

So I found out that Supersons trades performed significantly better on Amazon than Diamond makes me think that the audience for the boys was never the Direct sales fans.

Both of my kids are huge fans and the same is true with a lot of the other dad's in my FB comic group.

With the current series wrapping up I hope we get another not just for myself but for all the kids out there and the dads who finally were able to share their interest with their kids.

----------


## adrikito

I saw the Mother Soul similar to Talia.. I would not discard her as Damian grandmother

https://www.cbr.com/robin-mother-soul-identity/

----------


## Shen

> I saw the Mother Soul similar to Talia.. I would not discard her as Damian grandmother
> 
> https://www.cbr.com/robin-mother-soul-identity/


That actually would be pretty cool. It'd flesh out the Al Ghul's a little more, maybe even develop Talia at some later point. Plus we know Ra's is showing up later, so that would be a confrontation to watch.

----------


## HsssH

Mother Soul says that tournament is happening every 100 years, my understanding is that Talia's mother shouldn't be older than 60. Granted, it can be changed, but I don't think that it really fits at the moment. Maybe she is Ra's mother?

----------


## Eckri

So read the DC Festival Celebration of Asian Superheroes.
two-ish Damian stories.

The first story basically 
*spoilers:*
Batman suspects there is something going somewhere involving a pizza place, Damian offers to help but Batman tells him to take the night off and go hang out with his friends. Of course, Robin doesn't do that and investigates finding that the League of Assassins were springing a trap, and attacks Robin. All this while Damian has an internal monologue to himself, that leads to Damian reassuring himself that he is the one who defines him, that his past does not define him. All while beating the assassins at a pizza place.
*end of spoilers*

The second story is
*spoilers:*
 Nothing, he just gets named dropped and mentioned for two panels. It wasn't revealed what Damian said to Cass for her to get all sad. Though it was nice to see Collins once more
*end of spoilers*

Nice little fun stories.

----------


## Fergus

> So read the DC Festival Celebration of Asian Superheroes.
> two-ish Damian stories.
> 
> The first story basically 
> *spoilers:*
> Batman suspects there is something going somewhere involving a pizza place, Damian offers to help but Batman tells him to take the night off and go hang out with his friends. Of course, Robin doesn't do that and investigates finding that the League of Assassins were springing a trap, and attacks Robin. All this while Damian has an internal monologue to himself, that leads to Damian reassuring himself that he is the one who defines him, that his past does not define him. All while beating the assassins at a pizza place.
> *end of spoilers*
> 
> The second story is
> ...


Was it at least positive representation? I suppose the LOA isn't necessarily Asian but Talia is. I hope the Al Ghuls weren't demonised too much. Will check the title out

----------


## HsssH

Nah, nobody was demonised nor praised much. A definition of "filler" I'd say.

----------


## Rac7d*

7C819DEF-0419-4A0E-8005-A5F3FCB35D03.jpg

It was cute

----------


## Fergus

> Nah, nobody was demonised nor praised much. A definition of "filler" I'd say.



Ah well that's better than nothing. To be honest as much as i like Damian he wasn't the main draw for me.

Were there any standouts? and would you recommend spending money on it?

----------


## Fergus

> 7C819DEF-0419-4A0E-8005-A5F3FCB35D03.jpg
> 
> It was cute


Dropping in to kick ass. Remember in that B&r Annual where young damian had that extra spiky batman costume?

This bad guy here is lucky Damian gave up the spiked boots

----------


## Blue22

Damian's story was pretty alright. Nothing special, and nothing that really touched on his heritage all that much aside from the usual League of Assassins stuff. Thought his and Bruce's dialogue could have been written a bit better but it wasn't Bendis levels of OOC so I could give it a pass.

The second story...man I wish it had been longer. But it was nice seeing Colin again and seeing that he's formed relationships with more heroes besides Damian.

----------


## HsssH

> Ah well that's better than nothing. To be honest as much as i like Damian he wasn't the main draw for me.
> 
> Were there any standouts? and would you recommend spending money on it?


It is rather expensive so I'm leaning towards no? Probably Green Arrow/New Super-Man and Monkey Prince stories were the best ones, at least to me, but I wouldn't call them great either.

----------


## Digifiend

Even with the everything counts continuity, the Connor story just doesn't make sense. He and Kenan were just never around at the same time - and Kenan's costume is out of date so it can't just be set in the near future when Connor gets back from the Lazarus tournament.




> Does jon read manga now? Has he ever read manga? Posters of an anime character doesn't mean he reads manga. he could just like anime or more likely it's an in joke like the Conner kent poster that was also a thing on his wall b4 Conner was even brought back. b4 Jon or even Superman met Conner in Rebirth.
> 
> 
> 
> this is from Superson 10


That's also a Teen Titans logo on that skateboard, from before Flashpoint.

Who are those other people on the Conner poster? The Ravers?




> Nah, nobody was demonised nor praised much. A definition of "filler" I'd say.


Apart from the Cheshire Cat (Catwoman tie-in, as it reveals Shoes' real name) and Monkey Prince stories (setting up an upcoming book it seems), they're all filler. Doesn't mean some of them weren't entertaining.

----------


## adrikito

ROBINS were losing the last time that I saw the poll some hours ago.. and some people in twitter admitted be CHEATERS creating many accounts wanting to not see more Bat-series.  :Mad: 

Damnit. One friend told me that since Rebirth it was planned something like this.. SINCE 2016 and probably a group of cheaters ruined it. 

SADLY it seems that we will never have the chance to see this:

EvWFZQNVIAMWAaV.jpg

----------


## HsssH

> Even with the everything counts continuity, the Connor story just doesn't make sense. He and Kenan were just never around at the same time - and Kenan's costume is out of date so it can't just be set in the near future when Connor gets back from the Lazarus tournament.


Yeah, I enjoyed overall story, but this can't fit anywhere in continuity. Asides of the costume I thought that Kenan was also acting like at the start of his series ignoring his character development that happened towards the end of it. 

I suppose Connor might have been alive all the time now and thats when they met? But that would just open another can of worms.

----------


## dietrich

I liked the Damian and Cass stories but the real surprise was the Shoes revel

----------


## Fergus

> It is rather expensive so I'm leaning towards no? Probably Green Arrow/New Super-Man and Monkey Prince stories were the best ones, at least to me, but I wouldn't call them great either.


Thanks for the honest advice mate. Might just save my money.

----------


## Fergus

https://firefly215.tumblr.com

Eerie how similar they all look.

----------


## Fergus

This thread is missing some fan art so here's adult Damian



https://glitter-dc.tumblr.com

----------


## dietrich

> https://firefly215.tumblr.com
> 
> Eerie how similar they all look.


They don't look very happy. Poor Tim looks like he's about to cry.

Bruce and Damian look identical. Actually Bruce here looks like the adult Damian in your next post

----------


## Shen

> https://firefly215.tumblr.com
> 
> Eerie how similar they all look.


Soo, who/what is that thing behind all of them? Is that like the ghost of Alfred?

----------


## Shen

Speaking of Fan Art, I've always loved Chromic7sky's work. Especially Red Lantern Damian.

----------


## Fergus

> Soo, who/what is that thing behind all of them? Is that like the ghost of Alfred?


I honestly don't know.

----------


## Fergus

> Attachment 109536
> 
> Speaking of Fan Art, I've always loved Chromic7sky's work. Especially Red Lantern Damian.


I like this. 

I know that Damian in canon has had 2 lantern rings [red and Yellow] I wonder have the other Batkids being chosen as Lanterns?

I vaguely recall Steph and Babs becoming lanterns in BQ Millers batgirl run.

----------


## Shen

> I like this. 
> 
> I know that Damian in canon has had 2 lantern rings [red and Yellow] I wonder have the other Batkids being chosen as Lanterns?
> 
> I vaguely recall Steph and Babs becoming lanterns in BQ Millers batgirl run.


Steph was a Blue Lantern and Babs was a Green Lantern, and Damian was a Red.

I remember a panel from the Robin: Son of Batman series, where it looked like Damian had a Power Ring in his Vault. Can't say for sure, and maybe it was just a Belt-buckle, but it's always had me wondering. 

All the Batkids can be multiple Lanterns, well depending on what the ring needs from them. Isn't the reason why even though Bruce has Incredible Willpower, he could never be a Green Lantern because he can't let go of his parent's death?

----------


## Shen

Classic Damian XD

----------


## dietrich

> Classic Damian XD


Love it  :Smile:

----------


## dietrich

> Steph was a Blue Lantern and Babs was a Green Lantern, and Damian was a Red.
> 
> *I remember a panel from the Robin: Son of Batman series, where it looked like Damian had a Power Ring in his Vault*. Can't say for sure, and maybe it was just a Belt-buckle, but it's always had me wondering. 
> 
> All the Batkids can be multiple Lanterns, well depending on what the ring needs from them. Isn't the reason why even though Bruce has Incredible Willpower, he could never be a Green Lantern because he can't let go of his parent's death?


I think I'll revisit that series

----------


## CPSparkles

> Classic Damian XD


Very funny.

----------


## CPSparkles

> This thread is missing some fan art so here's adult Damian
> 
> 
> 
> https://glitter-dc.tumblr.com


Wow! A very handsome adult Damian.

GlitterDC is one of my fav Damian fan artist's

----------


## dietrich

Joshua talks Robin




Time code for robin: 35 mins

Issue  5 is about all the Robins.

Robin 1 sold really well [can't wait to see the figures]

DC approached him and asked if he wanted Robin [even though he has been pitching books for Damian for 10 years now]

He put Damian on an island because he felt Damian had become swallowed up by too many groups [Supersons, TT and bat family drama] so he wanted to separate him and explore the character.

*spoilers:*
 Damian kills again.  
*end of spoilers*

Robin is going to eventually tie in to another  unannounced series he's going to be writing.

This series is only short.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Joshua talks Robin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time code for robin: 35 mins


Thank you for the link!




> Issue  5 is about all the Robins.


Wow, can't wait! We will get Issue 5 solicits this week, right?




> Robin 1 sold really well [can't wait to see the figures]
> 
> DC approached him and asked if he wanted Robin [even though he has been pitching books for Damian for 10 years now]


Good for him, I'm happy for him. Looks like he really loves Damian.




> He put Damian on an island because he felt Damian had become swallowed up by too many groups [Supersons, TT and bat family drama] so he wanted to separate him and explore the character.


Finally! I thought I was the only one who thinks that. But JW really went "this boy has become fodder to uphold too many people, I take him and put him on an isolated island so leave him alone!" hahaha 




> *spoilers:*
>  Damian kills again.  
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
 Eh, at least he's now on an island that kinda "legalizes" killing, and no one bitching about hero-no-kill-rule or something. I don't really care, but I hope JW will not use it as a cliffhanger like on Demon and Detective, because well, it's overused at this point.  
*end of spoilers*




> Robin is going to eventually tie in to another  unannounced series he's going to be writing.


NEW CODENAME! NEW CODENAME! I am probably the only one who is on board with Damian will not reclaim his Robin status, but I really want Damian to have a new codename and costume. Besides, current Damian is not Robin in everything but name.




> This series is only short.


Aww, that's disappointing, but JW already promised more Damian on his next book, hope that the next book will have more issues instead of the usual less-than-thirty.

----------


## Eckri

*spoilers:*
Damian killing again, basing on the circumstances he's in I'd excused it. The only way he could feel somewhat better in killing his opponents is that he does it as humanely as possible.
*end of spoilers*

On the other note, Damian being too diluted with other groups. Over the recent years, like 2016 to now, yeah I kinda see the boy getting involve with too much of other groups than having his own story. 

Still I'm more hyped of Damian's potential other costumes, the Robin series promised Damian with multiple costumes, and boy I wanna more costumes. Like his dad with the multiple bat suits.

----------


## Astralabius

> NEW CODENAME! NEW CODENAME! I am probably the only one who is on board with Damian will not reclaim his Robin status, but I really want Damian to have a new codename and costume. Besides, current Damian is not Robin in everything but name.
> 
> 
> Aww, that's disappointing, but JW already promised more Damian on his next book, hope that the next book will have more issues instead of the usual less-than-thirty.


I don't think Damian will get a new identity. Williamson said that while we'll see Damian in different outfits, the new Robin costume we saw in Robin #1 will be the his suit for the forseeable future. Plus it's an ongoing titled Robin, why give that to Damian if you don't want him to be Robin anymore?

No, he was saying the unannounced book was short, not Damian's book. Robin is an ongoing.
I wonder if the book he's talking about is that Deathstroke Inc book that got teased some time ago. Rose and Respawn both are connected to Deathstroke (or at least Respawn looks like it).

----------


## Astralabius

> *spoilers:*
>  Damian kills again.  
> *end of spoilers*


Can you point me to where he said that because I listened to the part about Robin, but I don't remember him saying that. He only talked about Respawn doing that from what I know.

----------


## dietrich

> Can you point me to where he said that because I listened to the part about Robin, but I don't remember him saying that. He only talked about Respawn doing that from what I know.


You are right. Just re watched it and it was Respawn. Phew.

----------


## dietrich

> Thank you for the link!
> 
> 
> Wow, can't wait! We will get Issue 5 solicits this week, right?
> 
> 
> Good for him, I'm happy for him. Looks like he really loves Damian.
> 
> 
> ...


I found it very interesting but it seems i missed/misheard a couple of things so I hope you get the chance to listen to it.

I like that he decided to say yes when DC approached him with Robin. JW 10 years ago and Jw at the start of Rebirth isn't JW today. 

At the time when he was approached he had become a high profile writer so for him to accept when he could have gone for a JLeaguer means something

----------


## dietrich

> *spoilers:*
> Damian killing again, basing on the circumstances he's in I'd excused it. The only way he could feel somewhat better in killing his opponents is that he does it as humanely as possible.
> *end of spoilers*
> 
> On the other note, Damian being too diluted with other groups. Over the recent years, like 2016 to now, yeah I kinda see the boy getting involve with too much of other groups than having his own story. 
> 
> Still I'm more hyped of Damian's potential other costumes, the Robin series promised Damian with multiple costumes, and boy I wanna more costumes. Like his dad with the multiple bat suits.


I'm also hyped about the costume changes.

*spoilers:*
 @Astralabius was correct. Respwan kills two people not Damian. I was mistaken 
*end of spoilers*

Like I suggested to @ lightofJustice if you can find the time listen to it yourself. I might have missed more and there's also the other important parts of the interview that are his personal thoughts, him speculating etc Things that aren't simply objective which i didn't list.

----------


## HsssH

I was about to write an angry post and how upsetting it is that the supposed fan of the character still can't write anything new with Damian. But luckily it was all cleared up  :Big Grin: 

As for tie-in book, Williamson has talked a lot about Green Arrow. So maybe a mini starring Hawke?

----------


## dietrich

> I was about to write an angry post and how upsetting it is that the supposed fan of the character still can't write anything new with Damian. But luckily it was all cleared up 
> 
> As for tie-in book, Williamson has talked a lot about Green Arrow. So maybe a mini starring Hawke?


OOf! My bad. I'm sorry.

----------


## Astralabius

> You are right. Just re watched it and it was Respawn. Phew.


Ah, okay. Thank you for clearing that up.

I was a bit confused when I read your spoiler because I remember Williamson talking about how one part of this arc is that Damian is on an island full of assassins and now he's in the position where he has to convince them that killing might not be the best solution or something along that line in a previous interview.

----------


## dietrich

> Ah, okay. Thank you for clearing that up.
> 
> I was a bit confused when I read your spoiler because I remember Williamson talking about how one part of this arc is that Damian is on an island full of assassins and now he's in the position where he has to convince them that killing might not be the best solution or something along that line in a previous interview.


Thanks for pointing it out. That was a load off. Damian is still evolving sure and the dead clearly don't stay dead in this contest [it seems]  but him killing again in a series that's supposed to be moving him away from the hit job that was TT just didn't sit right

----------


## Light of Justice

> No, he was saying the unannounced book was short, not Damian's book. Robin is an ongoing.


Ah yes, I misread, sorry




> You are right. Just re watched it and it was Respawn. Phew.


Phew, hope that in the future there's no more killing-shock cliffhanger for Damian. 




> I found it very interesting but it seems i missed/misheard a couple of things so I hope you get the chance to listen to it.
> 
> I like that he decided to say yes when DC approached him with Robin. JW 10 years ago and Jw at the start of Rebirth isn't JW today. 
> 
> At the time when he was approached he had become a high profile writer so for him to accept when he could have gone for a JLeaguer means something


My English hearing is not very good so I might be more misinformed than the others -,-
Yeah, glad that Damian now is in the hand of the person who truly likes him.

----------


## Astralabius

> Thanks for pointing it out. That was a load off. Damian is still evolving sure and the dead clearly don't stay dead in this contest [it seems]  but him killing again in a series that's supposed to be moving him away from the hit job that was TT just didn't sit right


Yeah, killing and being a hero doesn't go that well together in the DC universe. And as I've talked about before, having Damian kill again wouldn't even be that interesting because they threw his entire character developement out the window last year.

But if Damian is truly back to no killing and continues to refuse to kill in this tournament then he might have a real problem. If I understand the rules correctly you can only truly win by killing your oponent and if he doesn't do that, then how is he supposed to advance? How many times can you lose before you get kicked out of the tournament?

----------


## Rac7d*

> Yeah, killing and being a hero doesn't go that well together in the DC universe. And as I've talked about before, having Damian kill again wouldn't even be that interesting because they threw his entire character developement out the window last year.
> 
> But if Damian is truly back to no killing and continues to refuse to kill in this tournament then he might have a real problem. If I understand the rules correctly you can only truly win by killing your oponent and if he doesn't do that, then how is he supposed to advance? How many times can you lose before you get kicked out of the tournament?


How come
Damian was made to be the bad guy when he killed
But red arrow got one Scott free

----------


## Astralabius

> How come
> Damian was made to be the bad guy when he killed
> But red arrow got one Scott free


You are not seriously asking me why I think Teen Titans threw Damian's character developement out the window.

Where would Emiko even suffer consequences? Green Arrow doesn't have a book right now.

----------


## Darkcrusade25

> How come
> Damian was made to be the bad guy when he killed
> But red arrow got one Scott free


Also slade came back in a later issue so the whole emiko murder thing got swept away. even though she did kill him.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Also slade came back in a later issue so the whole emiko murder thing got swept away. even though she did kill him.


Didn’t lady Vic die in teen Titans and now we see her in Robin ?
Does it even matter ?

----------


## Shen

Sometimes I wish Damian was a Marvel character, but then I see the stuff they're currently doing and I retract that wish.

----------


## Shen

> Didn’t lady Vic die in teen Titans and now we see her in Robin ?
> Does it even matter ?


I don't remember her dying, and no it doesn't really matter. For DC death is like a box, you see. A box of mysteries.

----------


## Shen

> How come
> Damian was made to be the bad guy when he killed
> But red arrow got one Scott free


She changed her mind, after she committed murder (Though it *was* to save Damian from doing the deed, that's some friendship). She then felt really bad, coz Deathstroke might've been right when he said she was like her Mother. At that point, she started to reject Robin's fanatical ideas and looked to her _beacon_ of _hope_ for guidance.

Wallace 'lace' West. 

That's fine. He wasn't always the best of characters, but his intentions were good. He was a really good friend to her and he tried to be a good friend to Damian. What I don't like is the whole *Hell* sequence. It should've been someone other than KF in her vision - like Ollie or Dinah being dissapointed in her or something, but noooo! 

Seriously, that annoyed me to no extent. It was like the end of Ben 10 Omniverse all over again. In one episode, the main characters come into contact with 5th dimensional beings they can't really perceive, except as the person/thing the viewer cares about the most. 

Rook saw his father, Maltruent was an egotistical tool so he saw himself. Instead of seeing Grandpa Max, the person who's been there the entire time and is the person who stood by Ben for years - Ben sees a *GiAnT FxCkInG SmOoThie!*

Coming back to DC, Deathstroke was there too, to further hammer home that Emi almost lost Lace (her mental representation of her humanity) coz she murdered Slade.

Then she has an epiphany, that she's been ignoring their connection and falls in love with him afterwards (contrived much?)

And then nobody cared, coz they had *plot* to take care of (Djinn was never my favorite, but this is the part I started to hate her) and when that was done they immediately moved onto the 'Reset Robin's Progress' plan where he began his "RAWR, WE'RE ALL GONNA KILL, JOIN ME FELLOW TROUBLED CHILDREN!" 

At that point, Emiko looked like a Nun in comparison, so everyone forgot.

That came off quite Ranty, so sorry about that. 
I just don't like remembering that Teen Titans run, and how they wasted such potential and damaged many relationships. I'm also probably a victim of Selective Memory - so if things I said don't match with actual canon,  It's just my perspective on a memory I'd like to forget (plus I was pretty pissed off the entire run).

----------


## Astralabius

> I don't remember her dying, and no it doesn't really matter. For DC death is like a box, you see. A box of mysteries.


Wasn't she pinned to a wall and dead in that building that blew up with the Teen Titans inside it? That stuff Damian blamed Jason for?

Death Metal revived a lot of people, I wouldn't think too hard about it.

----------


## Shen

> Wasn't she pinned to a wall and dead in that building that blew up with the Teen Titans inside them? That stuff Damian blamed Jason for?
> 
> Death Metal revived a lot of people, I wouldn't think too hard about it.


Oh, well I guess I did forget that. My bad. But yeah, Plot saves the day.

----------


## Astralabius

> Oh, well I guess I did forget that. My bad. But yeah, Plot saves the day.


It wasn't important, if she wasn't in the tournament I would have forgotten all about her too by now.

----------


## CPSparkles

Loved Damian in Batman Black and White series. The whole series has been a blast so far



Bruce's smile in the last panel is nice

----------


## CPSparkles

> Joshua talks Robin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time code for robin: 35 mins
> 
> Issue  5 is about all the Robins.
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting.

He's really enthusiastic. I'm glad the pair are having so much fun with the title. It comes across in the writing.

----------


## Light of Justice

> She changed her mind, after she committed murder (Though it *was* to save Damian from doing the deed, that's some friendship). She then felt really bad, coz Deathstroke might've been right when he said she was like her Mother. At that point, she started to reject Robin's fanatical ideas and looked to her _beacon_ of _hope_ for guidance.
> 
> Wallace 'lace' West. 
> 
> That's fine. He wasn't always the best of characters, but his intentions were good. He was a really good friend to her and he tried to be a good friend to Damian. What I don't like is the whole *Hell* sequence. It should've been someone other than KF in her vision - like Ollie or Dinah being dissapointed in her or something, but noooo! 
> 
> Seriously, that annoyed me to no extent. It was like the end of Ben 10 Omniverse all over again. In one episode, the main characters come into contact with 5th dimensional beings they can't really perceive, except as the person/thing the viewer cares about the most. 
> 
> Rook saw his father, Maltruent was an egotistical tool so he saw himself. Instead of seeing Grandpa Max, the person who's been there the entire time and is the person who stood by Ben for years - Ben sees a *GiAnT FxCkInG SmOoThie!*
> ...


Don't worry, that's how I remember it too.
I always wonder what is the actual purpose of Thompson storyline, because he created those meaningless storylines that will never be touched again on future issues. Wallace and Emiko is one of the example (pretty sure this random pairing manifested after Thompson dip his hand). Damian's maybe-murder, Jon's....whatever letter which I guess is not yet relevant since they can talk face to face on Action Comics, is Crush ever a leader for real? Her complete turnover personality is so ridiculous, not that I like Glass's Crush, mind you.
Well, hope that the run will be forgotten like N52 Teen Titans.

----------


## Eckri

Read the latest Nightwing, huh basically.
*spoilers:*
Dick calls Tim Robin. Nice, finally Tim gets some spotlight after a while of being in the shadows. Huh, that leaves Damian in the public not as Robin. Nice detail that connects with the Detective Comics, wonder if he'll stick with the Robin title once the tournament arc is over. Got something to look forward too.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## CPSparkles

> Read the latest Nightwing, huh basically.
> *spoilers:*
> Dick calls Tim Robin. Nice, finally Tim gets some spotlight after a while of being in the shadows. Huh, that leaves Damian in the public not as Robin. Nice detail that connects with the Detective Comics, wonder if he'll stick with the Robin title once the tournament arc is over. Got something to look forward too.
> *end of spoilers*


I really enjoyed this issue. The fan service was on point and it felt great seeing Tim and Dick working together. Taylor nailed it.

When was Tim in the shadows? Tim has always been in spotlight. Pre Flashpoint, Nu52, rebirth he's always been in the spotlight ie he has a lead role in an ongoing  series and been part of a high profile team. RR, TT, Batman Beyond, YJ, Tec, BRE, Titans Hunt, Robin Eternal. Tim has never been in the shadows. Dc has always pushed and promoted him.

I don't get how those who say he's neglected or that DC doesn't care anymore can make that claim. He get pushed even more than Jason. A character that's more popular than Tim.

Cass, Steph, duke and huntress those characters are in the shadows

----------


## Rac7d*

> I really enjoyed this issue. The fan service was on point and it felt great seeing Tim and Dick working together. Taylor nailed it.
> 
> When was Tim in the shadows? Tim has always been in spotlight. Pre Flashpoint, Nu52, rebirth he's always been in the spotlight ie he has a lead role in an ongoing  series and been part of a high profile team. RR, TT, Batman Beyond, YJ, Tec, BRE, Titans Hunt, Robin Eternal. Tim has never been in the shadows. Dc has always pushed and promoted him.
> 
> I don't get how those who say he's neglected or that DC doesn't care anymore can make that claim. He get pushed even more than Jason. A character that's more popular than Tim.
> 
> Cass, Steph, duke and huntress those characters are in the shadows


you just listed the gotham knights which is the team  Tim lead in the detecitives comics
he also lead them in Young justice tv show
in the shadows

----------


## adrikito

> I don't get how those who say he's neglected or that DC doesn't care anymore can make that claim. He get pushed even more than Jason. A character that's more popular than Tim.
> 
> Cass, Steph, duke and huntress those characters are in the shadows


Something that I can not understand after RED HOOD&OUTLAWS.. The last volume with Artemis and Bizarro was Great..

Yeah. Poor Steph.(Cass is in Outsiders). 

I hope that Robins wins.. I can not vote because I am in Europe.

Not sure what to say about Huntress.. I think that I continue prefering Helena Wayne.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Eckri

Rob.jpg

https://twitter.com/DCComics/status/1395046592307154946

It's Robins vs Suicide Squad.  

Well this decides if Robins is getting a book or not.
On another unrelated note, really surprised how Robins defeated Green Lantern. I checked on replies to the post there was a huge meltdown on Twitter of another Bat book.
I hope DC publishes some of the lost contenders like GL or Blue Beetle.

----------


## Rac7d*

It’ll be intresting to see Damian in Injustice animated

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> Itll be intresting to see Damian in Injustice animated


Man, I'm really not excited for this at all. A lot of people hate Damian because of Injustice, I'm not looking forward to see more hate.  :Frown:

----------


## Eckri

> It’ll be intresting to see Damian in Injustice animated


Oh yeah, Injustice is getting an animated movie. 
I wonder which portrayal they'd go with Damian's betrayal. 
The comics one or the one in Injustice 2.

----------


## Eckri

> Man, I'm really not excited for this at all. A lot of people hate Damian because of Injustice, I'm not looking forward to see more hate.


Game wise he was insufferable which is understandable on why he gets so much flank. 

Comic wise, he was a bit insufferable but decent moments where he wasn't. The scene where he was on the hunt for Zsas and confronts Batman was enjoyable. Not accounting the Injustice 2 comics where he was still a villain but enjoyed his interactions with Bruce and kara, and the Injustice - He-man crossover where he redeems himself, frees Bruce, and then gets his neck snapped by Wonder Woman. 

Overall, I hope the comics elements are in the animated movie, just to make hate somewhat less.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Loved Damian in Batman Black and White series. The whole series has been a blast so far
> 
> 
> 
> Bruce's smile in the last panel is nice


I read this last week, loved it! Was a good break of all sadness in canon, I said before I don't like Damian being so impulsive, but, pretty funny here <3

----------


## Astralabius

> Man, I'm really not excited for this at all. A lot of people hate Damian because of Injustice, I'm not looking forward to see more hate.


Yep, me too. I hate Injustice.

----------


## dietrich

> Game wise he was insufferable which is understandable on why he gets so much flank. 
> 
> Comic wise, he was a bit insufferable but decent moments where he wasn't. The scene where he was on the hunt for Zsas and confronts Batman was enjoyable. Not accounting the Injustice 2 comics where he was still a villain but enjoyed his interactions with Bruce and kara, and the Injustice - He-man crossover where he redeems himself, frees Bruce, and then gets his neck snapped by Wonder Woman. 
> 
> Overall, I hope the comics elements are in the animated movie, just to make hate somewhat less.


Can't wait for this, Finally Dc is adapting a series that allows them to go really creative and intense with the action. The conflict is grey enough to get fans thinking, it has lots of metahuman and fights so animators can go ham 

Injustice Damian is annoying
The game version gets hate but is one of the most mained characters so despite the hate his sweet moves and cool sword and aesthetics makes him bad ass and fun to use.

Also the haters love fighting him because of the dialogue and it's like they can throw shade via the character .

Injustice 2 Damian was the stand out character in the series. He saved the world, saves Jason, missed all of Kara's attempts at flirting and succeeded where Bruce and his allies failed.

All this while still patrolling the streets every night fight crime and protecting people.
  He was so epic that Kara looks up him.

The cross over with MOTU was fun with lots if feels. When he talks about Dick that hit me.

The growth and progress of Damian's character in series is a joy to see and I hope we get all the stages. 
From side kick who killed his brother to 
Regime bad guy who makes a good point  
to just out here saving the world because I want to help 
to the Batman who organises the resistance that takes down the regime. saved  Bruce  got his neck snapped.

----------


## Light of Justice

I am in general is indifferent to Injustice but really not looking forward for seeing Dick's silly death scene on animated form.

----------


## Shen

Videogame Injustice Damian was very annoying, but I loved his Comic version. He had a full story arc right up to his death. 

The game doesn't really explain why things are the way they are - it just says: "This kid killed Dick Grayson!" And everyone was like "Noo, right in the nostalgia! Lets hate this piece of crap without thinking too much!" (But that's understandable, not like the game expands on how it happened) 

The comic had moments like 'Deadman Dick' coming back and officially giving Damian the mantle of Nightwing, and Damian's kind of/almost Romance with Kara while he taught her how to be a hero. He showed real growth and despite what he had to go through for it, I really enjoyed injustice for focusing on him.

(Also, I obviously mained him in the game - do you have any idea how annoying it is to fight Batman/Starfire/RH? _"I have no words for Dick Grayson's killer."_ Goddamnit)

One more thing - wasn't Jon also responsible for his father's death by some Vampire plant that ate superman when they disagreed? I think i saw something like that in one of the lantern books.



Yupp. Why they gotta do my boys like this?

----------


## HsssH

Monthly sales are now hard to track due to DC using different distributor, but looks like Robin had a strong debut, number 7: https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...1/2021-04.html

Obviously it will drop down in next few months as all series do after their debut, but this looks promising.

----------


## dietrich

> Monthly sales are now hard to track due to DC using different distributor, but looks like Robin had a strong debut, number 7: https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...1/2021-04.html
> 
> Obviously it will drop down in next few months as all series do after their debut, but this looks promising.


This makes me happy. I want this title to be a success. Not just for Damian but for the writer and artist as well. JW choosing to write a Damian robin series when he could have done a member of the JL was a risky bet and I want it pay off.

----------


## dietrich

> Videogame Injustice Damian was very annoying, but I loved his Comic version. He had a full story arc right up to his death. 
> 
> The game doesn't really explain why things are the way they are - it just says: "This kid killed Dick Grayson!" And everyone was like "Noo, right in the nostalgia! Lets hate this piece of crap without thinking too much!" (But that's understandable, not like the game expands on how it happened) 
> 
> The comic had moments like 'Deadman Dick' coming back and officially giving Damian the mantle of Nightwing, and Damian's kind of/almost Romance with Kara while he taught her how to be a hero. He showed real growth and despite what he had to go through for it, I really enjoyed injustice for focusing on him.
> 
> (Also, I obviously mained him in the game - do you have any idea how annoying it is to fight Batman/Starfire/RH? _"I have no words for Dick Grayson's killer."_ Goddamnit)
> 
> One more thing - wasn't Jon also responsible for his father's death by some Vampire plant that ate superman when they disagreed? I think i saw something like that in one of the lantern books.
> ...


That sucks. Wasn't aware that Jon was even in Injustice.

----------


## HsssH

This is not from Injustice, it is Morrison's Black Star mini. Basically entire point of it was to show how ridiculous Metal/Injustice and things like that are.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> Monthly sales are now hard to track due to DC using different distributor, but looks like Robin had a strong debut, number 7: https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...1/2021-04.html
> 
> Obviously it will drop down in next few months as all series do after their debut, but this looks promising.


Im really happy to see this! This data is not as reliable as it was in the past, but JW himself said recently in an interview that Robin #1 sold a lot and was a hit. Im also rooting for the success of the creative team, especially for Gleb Melnikov, since this is his first ongoing at DC and I think hes incredible. The sales will obviously drop with the next issues, but I hope it stays high enough to last.  :Smile:

----------


## dietrich

> This is not from Injustice, it is Morrison's Black Star mini. Basically entire point of it was to show how ridiculous Metal/Injustice and things like that are.


I heard Morrison was firing shots in that series, sometimes even at themselves.

This I'm guessing is referencing Damian accidentally killing Dick. " I thought he'd catch it" lol

----------


## dietrich

> Loved Damian in Batman Black and White series. The whole series has been a blast so far
> 
> 
> 
> Bruce's smile in the last panel is nice


Fun series.

This panel made me laugh. Bruce's surprised face when Damian swings in is meme worthy.

----------


## dietrich

> Ah yes, I misread, sorry
> 
> 
> Phew, hope that in the future there's no more killing-shock cliffhanger for Damian. 
> 
> 
> My English hearing is not very good so I might be more misinformed than the others -,-
> Yeah, glad that Damian now is in the hand of the person who truly likes him.


I can relate. Since I moved to the UK I barely struggle when conversing in English after a few years but I struggle with Americans at times and heavy accents.

----------


## Blue22

I was already not looking forward to this Injustice movie because I, honestly, really hate those games' stories (what is with Neatherrealm studios and their disappointing story modes?) but I actually forgot about Damian's involvement in it and that just makes me even less interested. Damian, Clark, and Diana are probably my least favorite parts of that whole universe. Though Damian at least gets...better. It's just that, by then, I'd already stopped even trying to care about him.

----------


## adrikito

> Monthly sales are now hard to track due to DC using different distributor, but looks like Robin had a strong debut, number 7: https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...1/2021-04.html
> 
> Obviously it will drop down in next few months as all series do after their debut, but this looks promising.


I see... One good begin.. We hope that it continues in a good position during all the comic..

----------


## dietrich

https://doc-squash.tumblr.com

----------


## adrikito

> https://doc-squash.tumblr.com


lol... Damian is a Tekken fan too. 

From TIM?? Nah that is his Wayne Genetic.

----------


## Blue22

> https://doc-squash.tumblr.com


The only time Damian will ever call himself cute lol




> lol... Damian is a Tekken fan too.


Why do I feel like he mains Raven and Lee XD

----------


## adrikito

> Why do I feel like he mains Raven and Lee XD


I can understand Raven but.. 

Why Lee? Despite he is "a mishima" the real ones are strong compared with him..

Probably he would avoid Heihachi thinking that he reminds him his grandfather and with Nina and I am not sure.. He could think in her like in a cool assassin or in someone similar to his mother

----------


## Blue22

> I can understand Raven but.. 
> 
> Why Lee? Despite he is "a mishima" the real ones are strong compared with him..


I suppose Jin would have been the more obvious answer. But for Lee, I was thinking less from a story perspective and more on like....his personality and fighting style. Dude's always kinda reminded me of an older Damian lol

The agile fighter. The smug, rich, slightly power hungry asshole who's actually not as bad as he lets on and hates the elderly man who raised him. I could see Damian growing up to be kinda like him. The big difference is that Lee's issues are with his adopted family and Damian's are with his biological one.




> Probably he would avoid Heihachi thinking that he reminds him his grandfather and with Nina and I am not sure.. He could think in her like in a cool assassin or in someone similar to his mother


God, I didn't even think about that but Heihachi really is just like Ra's lol

----------


## Blue22

Preview for Robin #2:
https://aiptcomics.com/2021/05/21/dc-preview-robin-2/

*spoilers:*
So Heretic killing him didn't leave a scar. Bruce stabbing him back to life didn't leave a scar. Jason's ass whooping didn't leave any scars. But Flatline pulling a Killua on him did xD

And in typical Damian fashion,  he was not the least bit humbled by this defeat. Dude immediately wanted a rematch. That's my son lol
*end of spoilers*

----------


## sifighter

> Preview for Robin #2:
> https://aiptcomics.com/2021/05/21/dc-preview-robin-2/
> 
> *spoilers:*
> So Heretic killing him didn't leave a scar. Bruce stabbing him back to life didn't leave a scar. Jason's ass whooping didn't leave any scars. But Flatline pulling a Killua on him did xD
> 
> And in typical Damian fashion,  he was not the least bit humbled by this defeat. Dude immediately wanted a rematch. Thats my son lol
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
 I mean at this point Damian has died and come back twice, so I understand why he’s probably a tad cocky. 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Blue22

> *spoilers:*
>  I mean at this point Damian has died and come back twice, so I understand why he’s probably a tad cocky. 
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
Three times if we're counting his suicide in Glass' Titans
*end of spoilers*

----------


## dietrich

> *spoilers:*
> Three times if we're counting his suicide in Glass' Titans
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
 Four times he died in RSOB saving the world 
*end of spoilers*

Remember when Damian called Jason Todd 'Easy to kill' Robin? The irony.

----------


## Rac7d*

> *spoilers:*
>  Four times he died in RSOB saving the world 
> *end of spoilers*
> 
> Remember when Damian called Jason Todd 'Easy to kill' Robin? The irony.


He doesn’t have to hold back now

----------


## dietrich

> Preview for Robin #2:
> https://aiptcomics.com/2021/05/21/dc-preview-robin-2/
> 
> *spoilers:*
> So Heretic killing him didn't leave a scar. Bruce stabbing him back to life didn't leave a scar. Jason's ass whooping didn't leave any scars. But Flatline pulling a Killua on him did xD
> 
> And in typical Damian fashion,  he was not the least bit humbled by this defeat. Dude immediately wanted a rematch. That's my son lol
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
 I love it. Damian shouldn't be humble. Talk your shit Damian 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Frontier

> Preview for Robin #2:
> https://aiptcomics.com/2021/05/21/dc-preview-robin-2/
> 
> *spoilers:*
> So Heretic killing him didn't leave a scar. Bruce stabbing him back to life didn't leave a scar. Jason's ass whooping didn't leave any scars. But Flatline pulling a Killua on him did xD
> 
> And in typical Damian fashion,  he was not the least bit humbled by this defeat. Dude immediately wanted a rematch. That's my son lol
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
"Love is for fools!" Ha, maybe something will happen there...
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Blue22

> *spoilers:*
>  Four times he died in RSOB saving the world 
> *end of spoilers*


Oh shit. I forgot about that one.




> *spoilers:*
>  I love it. Damian shouldn't be humble. Talk your shit Damian 
> *end of spoilers*







> *spoilers:*
> "Love is for fools!" Ha, maybe something will happen there...
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
I'm really hoping it doesn't. Not every hero needs a love interest. And so far, of the *many* people Damian's been shipped with, the only one I could really get behind was Djinn. Though I don't know if I'd have wanted that to be a long term thing
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Frontier

> *spoilers:*
> I'm really hoping it doesn't. Not every hero needs a love interest. And so far, of the *many* people Damian's been shipped with, the only one I could really get behind was Djinn. Though I don't know if I'd have wanted that to be a long term thing
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
Well outside AU's and adaptions Damian's been pretty chaste, not that I think it *absolutely* has to be, but it could be a really creepy dynamic with the way she is...
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Astralabius

> Preview for Robin #2:
> https://aiptcomics.com/2021/05/21/dc-preview-robin-2/
> 
> *spoilers:*
> So Heretic killing him didn't leave a scar. Bruce stabbing him back to life didn't leave a scar. Jason's ass whooping didn't leave any scars. But Flatline pulling a Killua on him did xD
> 
> And in typical Damian fashion,  he was not the least bit humbled by this defeat. Dude immediately wanted a rematch. That's my son lol
> *end of spoilers*


Kinda lame.

----------


## Shen

> Preview for Robin #2:
> https://aiptcomics.com/2021/05/21/dc-preview-robin-2/
> 
> *spoilers:*
> So Heretic killing him didn't leave a scar. Bruce stabbing him back to life didn't leave a scar. Jason's ass whooping didn't leave any scars. But Flatline pulling a Killua on him did xD
> 
> And in typical Damian fashion,  he was not the least bit humbled by this defeat. Dude immediately wanted a rematch. That's my son lol
> *end of spoilers*


Maybe it's the effect of the Island, or maybe Death Metal warped reality. Depending on when it happened, DM could've overwritten his murder of Brother Blood + his older scars, hell it could've brought back Conner. 

XD I'm starting to like Flatline a lot more than 'the betrayer' already. I still say I want them to be Friends/Rivals at the end of this. He's still too young for romance (i still think Djinn was unconsciously manipulating his feelings and Crush's, wasn't Raven also doing that at one point). He better start paying attention to his Bro's and not his father when the time comes.

----------


## Digifiend

Death Metal is definitely responsible for restoring Connor Hawke, who was retgone due to New 52.

----------


## adrikito

> Preview for Robin #2:
> https://aiptcomics.com/2021/05/21/dc-preview-robin-2/
> 
> *spoilers:*
> So Heretic killing him didn't leave a scar. Bruce stabbing him back to life didn't leave a scar. Jason's ass whooping didn't leave any scars. But Flatline pulling a Killua on him did xD
> 
> And in typical Damian fashion,  he was not the least bit humbled by this defeat. Dude immediately wanted a rematch. That's my son lol
> *end of spoilers*


Excellent.. We reached the 100th page with Robin 2 preview...

*spoilers:*
lol.. I like Rose words about Damian falling in love.. hahahaa.

Poor Damian. Lose Djinn affected him more than the expected to give that answer about love.

WHY I think that Ravager will attack Damian now? Is a good moment now. He is with the Guard Down and she will use her sword.

*end of spoilers*

Oh.. The preview is too short. Anyway. In 3 days the issue will be out  :Big Grin: 




> Oh shit. I forgot about that one.
> 
> *spoilers:*
> And so far, of the *many* people Damian's been shipped with, the only one I could really get behind was Djinn. Though I don't know if I'd have wanted that to be a long term thing
> *end of spoilers*


Same opinion here. Despite  *spoilers:*
I had some interest in Emiko too before.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Eckri

Damian saying love is for fools.
Might as well take a page from ole Big Brother Dick about commitment.

Dick's Saying.jpg

----------


## adrikito

lol. Both broke that promise years later.


What do you think about that *Injustice Film*?? I think that we all Damian Fanbase will hate it.. Only comics can make him likeable.

1 (1).jpg

----------


## adrikito

Twitter mention about one interview about Infinite Frontier and about ROBIN:

https://twitter.com/GateCrashersPod/...57037024419841

The interview link:

https://gatecrashers.fan/2021/05/21/...ua-williamson/

----------


## dietrich

> Twitter mention about one interview about Infinite Frontier and about ROBIN:
> 
> https://twitter.com/GateCrashersPod/...57037024419841
> 
> The interview link:
> 
> https://gatecrashers.fan/2021/05/21/...ua-williamson/


Thanks for the link will give it a listen on my break

----------


## Digifiend

> lol. Both broke that promise years later.


Well, when that panel was published, wasn't Catwoman, up to that point his only love interest I think, in long term limbo? She only came back around the time Adam West was playing Batman on TV, because she was in the show.

----------


## adrikito

One question... the Fear State Bat-family event means that* no ROBIN* in October?  :Frown:

----------


## Rac7d*

> One question... the Fear State Bat-family event means that* no ROBIN* in October?


why would that be

----------


## Astralabius

> One question... the Fear State Bat-family event means that* no ROBIN* in October?


Williamson confirmed that Robin is not crossing over with Fear State so I wouldn't know why we shouldn't get Robin in October.
*spoilers:*
Someone also asked if Damian will interact with Jace Fox and Williamson answered that Damian will return to Gotham after the first arc/the first eight issues, but he will be mostly focused on his father, so there isn't much of a reason for Jace and him to meet right out of the gate.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## dietrich

> Williamson confirmed that Robin is not crossing over with Fear State so I wouldn't know why we shouldn't get Robin in October.
> *spoilers:*
> Someone also asked if Damian will interact with Jace Fox and Williamson answered that Damian will return to Gotham after the first arc/the first eight issues, but he will be mostly focused on his father, so there isn't much of a reason for Jace and him to meet right out of the gate.
> *end of spoilers*


I'm glad they are focusing on Damian and Bruce. Fix Damian 1st before he starts interacting with the new guys. I remember what Patrick did to Damian in the Signal so no thanks.

----------


## Astralabius

> I'm glad they are focusing on Damian and Bruce. Fix Damian 1st before he starts interacting with the new guys. I remember what Patrick did to Damian in the Signal so no thanks.


What did he do?

----------


## Blue22

> Williamson confirmed that Robin is not crossing over with Fear State so I wouldn't know why we shouldn't get Robin in October.
> *spoilers:*
> Someone also asked if Damian will interact with Jace Fox and Williamson answered that Damian will return to Gotham after the first arc/the first eight issues, but he will be mostly focused on his father, so there isn't much of a reason for Jace and him to meet right out of the gate.
> *end of spoilers*


Good. I couldn't care less about any interaction that he has with Jace. Work on fixing the hot ass mess that is his relationship with Bruce.

----------


## Astralabius

> Good. I couldn't care less about any interaction that he has with Jace. Work on fixing the hot ass mess that is his relationship with Bruce.


Yeah, I feel the same way. That relationship has turned so messy, I feel like we might need a new Batman and Robin book to truly fix it. Williamson said Damian would be focused on Bruce, but it's still a solo book so I'm not sure how much time he will really end up dedicating to that.
Possible spoiler for Bruce's search in Robin, don't read if you don't want to know.
*spoilers:*
 In the same interview Williamson also mentioned that they talked about what would happen if Bruce found out where Damian was (during the Lazarus Island arc) and why he wouldn't go there immediately and that they would come up with a reason. I guess that means we won't see Bruce finding Damian? I wonder if something really bad is going to happen to Bruce in Fear State and that's why Damian comes back to Gotham. Maybe he will find/win something in the first arc that might help Bruce? He's on Lazarus Island after all. I'm just speculating here, but I find it a bit odd that Williamson said Damian is focused on Bruce instead of just saying that they will interact after the first arc.
Maybe I'm just overthinking this though.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## adrikito

> Williamson confirmed that Robin is not crossing over with Fear State so I wouldn't know why we shouldn't get Robin in October.
> *spoilers:*
> Someone also asked if Damian will interact with Jace Fox and Williamson answered that Damian will return to Gotham after the first arc/the first eight issues, but he will be mostly focused on his father, so there isn't much of a reason for Jace and him to meet right out of the gate.
> *end of spoilers*


OK Thanks.. I saw something in inside pulse only mentioning this Fear State and I thought for a moment that NO ROBIN in october.. 

I have 0 interest in that State I prefer Robin. New Bat or Catwoman? No.. See Harley? NEVER

OK. I will still have Robin  :Big Grin:

----------


## Astralabius

> OK Thanks.. I saw something in inside pulse only mentioning this Fear State and I thought for a moment that NO ROBIN in october.. 
> 
> I have 0 interest in that State I prefer Robin. New Bat or Catwoman? No.. See Harley? NEVER
> 
> OK. I will still have Robin


I'm not interested in Fear State either, I don't care about the characters that we saw in the promo art.

I wonder when we'll finally get the solicitations for August. Joshua Williamson already spoiled who will show up as guests in Robin #5, but he also posted a Flashpoint Thomas Wayne gif on twitter and I would like to see if that means something and if yes, what.
Thomas is still alive as far as we know and it would be interesting to have him and Damian interact again at some point after what Thomas did to him.

----------


## Light of Justice

> What did he do?


After Damian and Duke's mutual acknowledgment at the end of Robin War, after the potential of watching movies together and overall nice and promising friendship between two of them, of course in the very first page of Batman & Signal Patrick wrote Damian yelled and belittled Duke.

----------


## Blue22

> I'm not interested in Fear State either, I don't care about the characters that we saw in the promo art.
> 
> I wonder when we'll finally get the solicitations for August. Joshua Williamson already spoiled who will show up as guests in Robin #5, but he also posted a Flashpoint Thomas Wayne gif on twitter and I would like to see if that means something and if yes, what.
> Thomas is still alive as far as we know and it would be interesting to have him and Damian interact again at some point after what Thomas did to him.


I'd prefer Flashpoint Batman just go away forever. But if he comes back for Damian to kick his ass, I suppose I can deal with his presence again.

----------


## Astralabius

> After Damian and Duke's mutual acknowledgment at the end of Robin War, after the potential of watching movies together and overall nice and promising friendship between two of them, of course in the very first page of Batman & Signal Patrick wrote Damian yelled and belittled Duke.


Yikes. Can we have like one book that doesn't use Damian to make us feel bad for another character or turns him into a joke?
Reminds me of when I read the asian superhero celebration issue, excited to read two Damian stories, and Dustin Nguyen used Damian to make us feel bad for Cass for absolutely no reason in one of the two.

----------


## Astralabius

> I'd prefer Flashpoint Batman just go away forever. But if he comes back for Damian to kick his ass, I suppose I can deal with his presence again.


I think Damian and his relationship has some story potential, even if it's just to help Damian deal with his trauma (possibly by kicking his ass).

----------


## dietrich

> After Damian and Duke's mutual acknowledgment at the end of Robin War, after the potential of watching movies together and overall nice and promising friendship between two of them, of course in the very first page of Batman & Signal Patrick wrote Damian yelled and belittled Duke.


Yeah that was a dick move. Patrick is a fan of dukes and has been following the character so he knew that Duke and Damian were amicable but he threw Damian  under the bus to get readers to feel sympathy for duke.

Which was undercut Duke's development. The maturity and ease with which he handled Damian in Robin War. Counter productive not just narrative wise but real world. Duke was/is a character that gets an unfair amount of hate. I'm sure some Damian fans had issues with him but for the most part their friendship in story made a lot of Damian fans less hostile to Duke. so to risk that tenuous peace for the sake of woobifying Duke is not a smart move

Ridley so far isn't propping Jace by undermining others but I just have that fear

----------


## dietrich

> Yikes. Can we have like one book that doesn't use Damian to make us feel bad about another character or turns him into a joke?
> Reminds me of when I read the asian superhero celebration issue, excited to read two Damian stories, and* Dustin Nguyen used Damian to make us feel bad for Cass for absolutely no reason in one of the two*.


Yeah I noticed that too. It's like Damian's on this list of characters that it's okay to hate on so writers feel free to make em the bad guy whenever you need a random bad guy

----------


## Shen

Would you guys call Damian killing Dick in Injustice a Murder or an Accident?

----------


## Blue22

> Would you guys call Damian killing Dick in Injustice a Murder or an Accident?


It was quite clearly an accident.

----------


## Shen

> It was quite clearly an accident.


For some reason, I've spent an unknown amount of time trying to make people on a YouTube video about Damian and Starfire understand that it was an accident.

Screenshot_20210525-053954.jpg

Haven't been too successful, but what was I expecting? XD

----------


## Blue22

> For some reason, I've spent an unknown amount of time trying to make people on a YouTube video about Damian and Starfire understand that it was an accident.
> 
> Screenshot_20210525-053954.jpg
> 
> Haven't been too successful, but what was I expecting? XD


I feel like, at the most, you could say Injustice Damian's guilty of manslaughter. I hate Injustice Damian but he did not murder Dick. Taylor made that SO very clear. Dick's death was not the same as all the other senseless killings in that universe. Intent does matter.

----------


## Eckri

You know I was thinking. 

What was Damian like pre-flash point? 

I mostly know of his history when Flashpoint came in with the New 52.

But don't know what the 5th Boywonder was like pre-new 52.
There's Dick-Batman run. 
But I knew he appeared in an detective comic, hazzy on what happened there but it was Bruce, Tim, and Damian fighting Ra's Al Ghul. Think it was before Dick-Batman.
Then there was the Teen Titans issue where he teams up with Rose.
Then a run in with Supergirl.
Then a run with Steph-Batgirl. 

Then there's this panel from Battle of the Cowl issue 1, he was near ten here right? I'm pretty sure he was drunk. Well at least he's lively as Dick when he's somewhat wasted.
Bat Drunk Drive 2.jpg

Like, how about you guys?
What are you thoughts on comparing Damian (Pre-52) to Damian (Current)? 
There any difference, or he remains the same. 
Want some thoughts, since Damian (Pre-52) was a blur to me, just snippets but couldn't get the bigger picture.

----------


## Shen

> You know I was thinking. 
> 
> What was Damian like pre-flash point? 
> 
> I mostly know of his history when Flashpoint came in with the New 52.
> 
> But don't know what the 5th Boywonder was like pre-new 52.
> There's Dick-Batman run. 
> But I knew he appeared in an detective comic, hazzy on what happened there but it was Bruce, Tim, and Damian fighting Ra's Al Ghul. Think it was before Dick-Batman.
> ...


It's pretty much the same for me. Certain stuff like his friendship with Ravager, his Brother/Sister dynamic with Steph and that Halloween issue with Kara stick out. 

At least my boy had the game to pull a girl roughly twice his age. Now he's messing around with girls 4000 years his senior XD.

I think he's been through very much in the timeframe since his introduction, and that should have had some noticeable changes to his demeanor. The thing is, his current characterization has changed soo many times, idk how to compare the two of them.

----------


## Rac7d*

> You know I was thinking. 
> 
> What was Damian like pre-flash point? 
> 
> I mostly know of his history when Flashpoint came in with the New 52.
> 
> But don't know what the 5th Boywonder was like pre-new 52.
> There's Dick-Batman run. 
> But I knew he appeared in an detective comic, hazzy on what happened there but it was Bruce, Tim, and Damian fighting Ra's Al Ghul. Think it was before Dick-Batman.
> ...


I don’t even know who that kid was during battle for the cowl. His father is gone and he is joy riding the bat mobile with a girl 7 years older then him?

----------


## Astralabius

> Thanks for pointing it out. That was a load off. Damian is still evolving sure and the dead clearly don't stay dead in this contest [it seems]  but him killing again in a series that's supposed to be moving him away from the hit job that was TT just didn't sit right


We learn some more things about what dying in this contest means.
Spoilers for Robin #2. I'm serious, don't read if you don't want to be spoiled. 

*spoilers:*
 You can die two times, if you die a third time you are dead. The tournament only starts if everyone died at least once. The reward for winning is immortality according to Mother Soul. After hearing that Damian basically commits mass murder without remorse to speed up the process.

I'm beginning to feel like this book is not for me. I see this as a regression. I don't care that the people get revived immediately. Damian didn't even hesitate before he killed them all. 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Shen

^Okay, that's a very *odd* thing to do in a book about making him a hero again. And that's me putting it nicely. 

Damian's inner Ra's is showing and if it's done as effortlessly as you're saying, then I'm a little concerned. 
I don't mind him being brutal, but that's going a little too far.

----------


## Light of Justice

> You know I was thinking. 
> 
> What was Damian like pre-flash point? 
> 
> I mostly know of his history when Flashpoint came in with the New 52.
> 
> But don't know what the 5th Boywonder was like pre-new 52.
> There's Dick-Batman run. 
> But I knew he appeared in an detective comic, hazzy on what happened there but it was Bruce, Tim, and Damian fighting Ra's Al Ghul. Think it was before Dick-Batman.
> ...


Personally pre-flashpoint Damian is my favorite era. Like he's such a swag but responsible and if I have to say after New52 he's kinda diluted for a bit and his arrogant personality turned into cheap dickiness to prop other characters. That's why I have hopes for this Robin series, and looks like my pre-flashpoint Damian is back. 
I remember pre-flashpoint Damian beat Joker with crowbar, let Two-Face fell from high building, and counted his footsteps when he was kidnapped why blindfolded and drugged, and I was like, wow this kid is such a badass. He also felt responsible for a kid whom he couldn't save and on that point I really rooted for his future.

Pretty sure every Robins fans prefer to pretend that Battle for The Cowl was never happened, including me. OOC is not even enough to cover what the hell is wrong with that book

----------


## Astralabius

> ^Okay, that's a very *odd* thing to do in a book about making him a hero again. And that's me putting it nicely. 
> 
> Damian's inner Ra's is showing and if it's done as effortlessly as you're saying, then I'm a little concerned. 
> I don't mind him being brutal, but that's going a little too far.


I encourage everyone to form their own opnion, but I was not a fan. This is not off to a good start.

----------


## Light of Justice

> We learn some more things about what dying in this contest means.
> Spoilers for Robin #2. I'm serious, don't read if you don't want to be spoiled. 
> 
> *spoilers:*
>  You can die two times, if you die a third time you are dead. The tournament only starts if everyone died at least once. The reward for winning is immortality according to Mother Soul. After hearing that Damian basically commits mass murder without remorse to speed up the process.
> 
> I'm beginning to feel like this book is not for me. I see this as a regression. I don't care that the people get revived immediately. Damian didn't even hesitate before he killed them all. 
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
I'm still in college so I haven't read it, but personally, I have no problem with him removing the possible resurrection condition to raise the stakes. I don't have any problem with him killing as long as there's no one belittle him like on Teen Titans, that match is deathmatch with dozens killers aimed for death after all. 
Thanks for spoiler though 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Astralabius

> *spoilers:*
> I'm still in college so I haven't read it, but personally, I have no problem with him removing the possible resurrection condition to raise the stakes. I don't have any problem with him killing as long as there's no one belittle him like on Teen Titans, that match is deathmatch with dozens killers aimed for death after all. 
> Thanks for spoiler though 
> *end of spoilers*


Good for you, but I'm seriously considering dropping this book. And DC as a whole. I'm not interested in this.

----------


## Morgoth

This is just the second issue, and this is just the beginning of Damian's journey to redemption, what happened in this issue is not so bad given the conditions of the tournament that Damian is in.

----------


## Astralabius

> This is just the second issue, and this is just the beginning of Damian's journey to redemption, what happened in this issue is not so bad given the conditions of the tournament that Damian is in.


Connor managed to show more concern for human life than Damian did, even Ravager cared more than our protagonist who acted like this was a fun warm-up.

People told me the same about Teen Titans. I waited two years for that book to become good. Didn't happen.
Damian has been through this kind of arc how many times now? I'm tired of waiting. I want a good, fun hero story to enjoy. I don't want to wait for several months just hoping that Williamson will eventually deliver something good. This was DC's last chance.

----------


## dietrich

Batman 666 is my fav Batman so I don't have an issue with heroes who kill as a last resort However I don't think Damian as Robin should kill.

I understand those who are disappointed with the direction Jw just took but I'll wait and see where he's going with this new turn.

Damian made the choice to become a hero, he adopted the no kill rule because Batman. He didn't make that choice personally. He follows it because that's the Batman way.

When he decided to change the world the Wayne way it was because he felt that was a better way. He saw a different way to make the world better other than the way that was drilled into him. The Al Ghul way of conquer and lead. He choose to help make the world safer for innocent people.

Jw's Robin is about the next step in Damian's hero Journey which I'm hoping will eventually set up a personal reason why he decides to embrace the no killing rule beyond because Batman says so.

I hope..... or maybe this is just cope

----------


## Eckri

> We learn some more things about what dying in this contest means.
> Spoilers for Robin #2. I'm serious, don't read if you don't want to be spoiled. 
> 
> *spoilers:*
>  You can die two times, if you die a third time you are dead. The tournament only starts if everyone died at least once. The reward for winning is immortality according to Mother Soul. After hearing that Damian basically commits mass murder without remorse to speed up the process.
> 
> I'm beginning to feel like this book is not for me. I see this as a regression. I don't care that the people get revived immediately. Damian didn't even hesitate before he killed them all. 
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
They've placed Damian in a position where it's do or die. 
It's either he goes completely pacifist, which let's be real here, will likely be seen as a weakness. Exploited even. 
What is Damian supposed to do in that situation? Knock them out? Likely still that Mother Soul and the other competitors will see Damian as an easy target. 

I'd say, if we're keeping some spirits up that Damian doesn't go all bloodthristy, he's just instilling some fear. 
You know get all of them to loose their extra lives, and instill fear of losing their life. Then go all no killing. 
That's just a hunch, and certainly still looking on the bright side of it. Still, I do agree he goes instantly to killing is kinda worrying. Hope they give a reason why he went to killing in an instant
*end of spoilers*

----------


## sifighter

> *spoilers:*
> They've placed Damian in a position where it's do or die. 
> It's either he goes completely pacifist, which let's be real here, will likely be seen as a weakness. Exploited even. 
> What is Damian supposed to do in that situation? Knock them out? Likely still that Mother Soul and the other competitors will see Damian as an easy target. 
> 
> I'd say, if we're keeping some spirits up that Damian doesn't go all bloodthristy, he's just instilling some fear. 
> You know get all of them to loose their extra lives, and instill fear of losing their life. Then go all no killing. 
> That's just a hunch, and certainly still looking on the bright side of it. Still, I do agree he goes instantly to killing is kinda worrying. Hope they give a reason why he went to killing in an instant
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
 I think the issue points it out, he can do what he wants with no guilt or consequences. It doesn’t matter if he kills because they’ll be okay afterwards. So basically after being the first to die in a tournament he’s going all out to show he’s not too be messed with and probably get some anger out. 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Astralabius

> *spoilers:*
> They've placed Damian in a position where it's do or die. 
> It's either he goes completely pacifist, which let's be real here, will likely be seen as a weakness. Exploited even. 
> What is Damian supposed to do in that situation? Knock them out? Likely still that Mother Soul and the other competitors will see Damian as an easy target. 
> 
> I'd say, if we're keeping some spirits up that Damian doesn't go all bloodthristy, he's just instilling some fear. 
> You know get all of them to loose their extra lives, and instill fear of losing their life. Then go all no killing. 
> That's just a hunch, and certainly still looking on the bright side of it. Still, I do agree he goes instantly to killing is kinda worrying. Hope they give a reason why he went to killing in an instant
> *end of spoilers*


You do all realize that Williamson put Damian in this situation, right? Nobody forced him to create this tournament. This was not necessary at all.

----------


## Astralabius

> Batman 666 is my fav Batman so I don't have an issue with heroes who kill as a last resort However I don't think Damian as Robin should kill.
> 
> I understand those who are disappointed with the direction Jw just took but I'll wait and see where he's going with this new turn.
> 
> Damian made the choice to become a hero, he adopted the no kill rule because Batman. He didn't make that choice personally. He follows it because that's the Batman way.
> 
> When he decided to change the world the Wayne way it was because he felt that was a better way. He saw a different way to make the world better other than the way that was drilled into him. The Al Ghul way of conquer and lead. He choose to help make the world safer for innocent people.
> 
> Jw's Robin is about the next step in Damian's hero Journey which I'm hoping will eventually set up a personal reason why he decides to embrace the no killing rule beyond because Batman says so.
> ...


I always saw Robin: Son of Batman as the book where Damian embraced the no killing rule.
He understood that by killing Nobody he had taken the chance from him to become a better person, something that had been granted to Damian.
Maya forgave Damian and decided not take revenge on him so he could use his chance to become a better person after she understood that Damian was trying to right his wrongs.
Damian decided to forgive Talia when she asked for forgiveness, explaining that he owed the same chance to her that had been given to him.

----------


## sifighter

> I always saw Robin: Son of Batman as the book where Damian embraced the no killing rule.
> He understood that by killing Nobody he had taken the chance from him to become a better person, something that had been granted to Damian.
> Maya forgave Damian and decided not take revenge on him so he could use his chance to become a better person after she understood that Damian was trying to right his wrongs.
> Damian decided to forgive Talia when she asked for forgiveness, explaining that he owed the same chance to her that had been given to him.


Okay but Williamson also showed in the backups that lead to the Robin ongoing Damians hesitancy to kill, remember the league of Lazarus sent people to kill Talia and he couldnt do it.

Going into series specific notes here so going into spoilers

*spoilers:*
 Here its anyone can die two times and be completely fine, they just come right back. So in this scenario to Damian its not as if hes actually killed anyone, we just have to see if that changes as we get to the third round of deaths. 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Shen

Considering that it is called *Lazarus* Island, perhaps the effects of being revived on it is similar to that of the Lazarus Pit. Y'know like Anger, Bloodlust, Bouts of insanity etc.

----------


## dietrich

> I always saw Robin: Son of Batman as the book where Damian embraced the no killing rule.
> He understood that by killing Nobody he had taken the chance from him to become a better person, something that had been granted to Damian.
> Maya forgave Damian and decided not take revenge on him so he could use his chance to become a better person after she understood that Damian was trying to right his wrongs.
> Damian decided to forgive Talia when she asked for forgiveness, explaining that he owed the same chance to her that had been given to him.


Good point. Didn't think of RSOB.

----------


## Astralabius

> Okay but Williamson also showed in the backups that lead to the Robin ongoing Damian’s hesitancy to kill, remember the league of Lazarus sent people to kill Talia and he couldn’t do it.
> 
> Going into series specific notes here so going into spoilers
> 
> *spoilers:*
>  Here it’s anyone can die two times and be completely fine, they just come right back. So in this scenario to Damian it’s not as if he’s actually killed anyone, we just have to see if that changes as we get to the third round of deaths. 
> *end of spoilers*


He didn't say he couldn't do it, he said he knew Talia would handle it.
And it's not just that he killed a bunch of people, it's the attitude Williamson gave him.

Even in Teen Titans it didn't feel like Damian thought it was fun to kill criminals in that last arc.

----------


## sifighter

> He didn't say he couldn't do it, he said he knew Talia would handle it.
> And it's not just that he killed a bunch of people, it's the attitude Williamson gave him.
> 
> Even in Teen Titans it didn't feel like Damian thought it was fun to kill criminals in that last arc.


Look I didn’t see him having fun here, I saw it as proving he’s not a pushover in a tournament after he died first. He was trying to show bravado. I’m pretty sure that if there wasn’t a resurrection rule he would have just beat them. But he knows they have spare lives so he’s not going easy.

----------


## DragonPiece

> You do all realize that Williamson put Damian in this situation, right? Nobody forced him to create this tournament. This was not necessary at all.


Williamson said it’ll be a slow redemption after what happened in teen Titans, I don’t see anything wrong here.

----------


## Astralabius

> Look I didn’t see him having fun here, I saw it as proving he’s not a pushover in a tournament after he died first. He was trying to show bravado. I’m pretty sure that if there wasn’t a resurrection rule he would have just beat them. But he knows they have spare lives so he’s not going easy.


He was literally smiling as he started his attack and said "game on" before he killed them.

----------


## Astralabius

> Williamson said it’ll be a slow redemption after what happened in teen Titans, I don’t see anything wrong here.


Maybe that is fine by you, I'm out of patience. And my idea of redemption doesn't include adding more crimes to the list.

----------


## Blue22

I was initially a little put off by him going straight into kill mode the minute Rose said it was okay. But...Then I remembered this is exactly what I asked for when I complained about his actions in Teen Titans being swept under the rug. He's still hot off of that period in his life where he decided killing was okay again. As horrible as it was, it happened. It's why he's where he is right now. Sure he's made some progress in the right direction, to the point where he's only doing it on the condition that these people will be brought back. But clearly he's still that same kid from Glass' run. And I see this series as something that will *hopefully* fix that over time. You know...like Williamson said he would. With that in mind, issue #2 is a little too soon to jump ship. He'll probably be fine. Especially since he's got Rose there, who's already doing more to help him through his dark period than any of his family has.




> Connor managed to show more concern for human life than Damian did, even Ravager cared more than our protagonist who acted like this was a fun warm-up.
> 
> People told me the same about Teen Titans. I waited two years for that book to become good. Didn't happen.
> Damian has been through this kind of arc how many times now? I'm tired of waiting. I want a good, fun hero story to enjoy. I don't want to wait for several months just hoping that Williamson will eventually deliver something good. This was DC's last chance.


I think the difference here is that Teen Titans was kinda always set up to lead Damian down that ill-thought out path. That book's premise was built on breaking the character down, not building him up. Williamson has said, multiple times, that this book is about getting him back on track. So of course he's gonna start out at the bottom. Because that's where he was before this story even began.

----------


## Astralabius

Good for you people. I'm done wasting my time with this shit.

----------


## Blue22

Well if your mind's made up, that's fair, I guess. Can't say I haven't made any knee-jerk decisions when it comes to giving books a chance since I'm still back and forth on whether or not I even wanna read the first issue of Taylor's Superman lol

But I still hope you keep in mind that him being at this point at the start honestly should have been expected. Williamson doesn't seem to wanna run from Damian's issues like Tomasi did. He'll hopefully be facing them, head on. Sure this song and dance has gotten old and we've definitely been here before with the character. But that's more Teen Titans' fault than this book. This book has always advertised itself as wanting to fix him. They can't do that (at least not in a satisfying way) if they ignore the problem.

----------


## Shen

> I was initially a little put off by him going straight into kill mode the minute Rose said it was okay. But...Then I remembered this is exactly what I asked for when I complained about his actions in Teen Titans being swept under the rug. He's still hot off of that period in his life where he decided killing was okay again. As horrible as it was, it happened. It's why he's where he is right now. Sure he's made some progress in the right direction, to the point where he's only doing it on the condition that these people will be brought back. But clearly he's still that same kid from Glass' run. And I see this series as something that will *hopefully* fix that over time. You know...like Williamson said he would. With that in mind, issue #2 is a little too soon to jump ship. He'll probably be fine.* Especially since he's got Rose there, who's already doing more to help him through his dark period than any of his family has*.


OOF! Plot Armor Piercing Rounds, looks like the Bats are down!

I agree. Like I said before with the backups, we didn't get to see him come to the decision of not killing his foes - and that is what I personally want to see. 

DC's put this character through some terrible situations, and the one thing I want to see is Damian wear those scars and grow from the experiences. I'd rather not see them get swept away with the latest universal reset. 

The fact that he's smiling and seems like a happy homicidal hero is possibly due to the after effects of resurrection. That doesn't change how he has to progress in the tournament - he needs to kill to survive now.

----------


## Eckri

> I was initially a little put off by him going straight into kill mode the minute Rose said it was okay. But...Then I remembered this is exactly what I asked for when I complained about his actions in Teen Titans being swept under the rug. He's still hot off of that period in his life where he decided killing was okay again. As horrible as it was, it happened. It's why he's where he is right now. Sure he's made some progress in the right direction, to the point where he's only doing it on the condition that these people will be brought back. But clearly he's still that same kid from Glass' run. And I see this series as something that will *hopefully* fix that over time. You know...like Williamson said he would. With that in mind, issue #2 is a little too soon to jump ship. He'll probably be fine. Especially since he's got Rose there, who's already doing more to help him through his dark period than any of his family has.
> 
> 
> 
> I think the difference here is that Teen Titans was kinda always set up to lead Damian down that ill-thought out path. That book's premise was built on breaking the character down, not building him up. Williamson has said, multiple times, that this book is about getting him back on track. So of course he's gonna start out at the bottom. Because that's where he was before this story even began.


It is a little to early to judge, and this is just after coming from his Teen Titans run. 
Granted, it's a shame that Damian started to go killing, his circumstance doesn't help it but hey let's just go along with it, and hopefully see it have some sort of good outcome. 

Then there's him killing despite a revive catch to it, which will cause some drama between him and Bruce. Oh, let's see that panel.

But issue 1 shows us that he's just a kid looking for something, he gave his prize money to a family what not and showed his hobbies more, so he's not entirely going all bad. Think it's a bit of slippery slope that Damian started killing again, but we'll just have to wait and see. Doesn't help the fact that Damian's regression and progression is always fluctuating, bit tiring too, really want a compromise where Damian could be a douche and likeable as well for his status quo.

I mean, not trying to jinx it, but what's the worst possible thing that could happen to Damian's character in Robin? his Teen Titans run already brought him low.

----------


## Blue22

> OOF! Plot Armor Piercing Rounds, looks like the Bats are down!


And I hope they stay down. Seriously, every last one of them failed this kid. I'm counting Babs too since she was _so_ enraged by Bruce ignoring him during Alfred's memorial and yet she also didn't lift a damn finger to try and help. Like....girl, you're talking a lot of shit for someone who's also not doing anything for this emotionally damaged child. It's not your responsibility like it is Bruce's but...you could have still done something, Ms. Superhero.

----------


## sifighter

So how we feeling about Flatline? I like her but not as a romance subplot or anything just as someone fun who seems to be an equal match for Damian in a fight.

----------


## Blue22

Yeah I've been saying from the start that I like her as an ally/rival....but just as that.

----------


## Fergus

> It is a little to early to judge, and this is just after coming from his Teen Titans run. 
> Granted, it's a shame that Damian started to go killing, his circumstance doesn't help it but hey let's just go along with it, and hopefully see it have some sort of good outcome. 
> 
> Then there's him killing despite a revive catch to it, which will cause some drama between him and Bruce. Oh, let's see that panel.
> 
> But issue 1 shows us that he's just a kid looking for something, he gave his prize money to a family what not and showed his hobbies more, so he's not entirely going all bad. Think it's a bit of slippery slope that Damian started killing again, but we'll just have to wait and see. *Doesn't help the fact that Damian's regression and progression is always fluctuating,* bit tiring too, really want a compromise where Damian could be a douche and likeable as well for his status quo.
> 
> I mean, not trying to jinx it, but what's the worst possible thing that could happen to Damian's character in Robin? his Teen Titans run already brought him low.


It always puzzles me when I see people repeat this. This is not true at all. Glass regressed him and Tomasi did too at the start of B&R but that's it.

Two titles out of 100's that the character has been in since his introduction. 2 regressed him but Damian's character has been consistently progressing. 

Some writers have written him out of character [Bendis], watered him down [Supersons], maxed up his abrasive snotiness [Priest] but mostly he's static [in character] or progressed in line with his growth so far.

I don't understand why Damian often gets the 'writers regress always regress him' label tossed at him even though that's objectively false.

DC and the Batfam has lots of character that suffer from this yet fans seldom have this complaint for most of them [aside from Bruce and Jason]
I wonder where this comes from.

----------


## SanityOrMadness

> I was initially a little put off by him going straight into kill mode the minute Rose said it was okay. But...Then I remembered this is exactly what I asked for when I complained about his actions in Teen Titans being swept under the rug. He's still hot off of that period in his life where he decided killing was okay again. As horrible as it was, it happened. It's why he's where he is right now. Sure he's made some progress in the right direction, to the point where he's only doing it on the condition that these people will be brought back. But clearly he's still that same kid from Glass' run. And I see this series as something that will *hopefully* fix that over time. You know...like Williamson said he would. With that in mind, issue #2 is a little too soon to jump ship. He'll probably be fine. Especially since he's got Rose there, who's already doing more to help him through his dark period than any of his family has.


Meanwhile, Rose is getting messed up. She finally moved past the whole stupid Geoff Johns "Ravager" thing in Priest's Deathstroke, and yet...

----------


## Katana500

Who else loved the second issue!

The book is a lot of fun and im already enjoying the dynamic forming between Damian and Rose. I feel like they will end up being friends who deliberately get on each others nerves.

----------


## garazza

I was actually quite enjoyed the issue. This is the comic I've been asking for.

As for the killing again thing, I don't know what y'all are on about, but between this book and TT, it's night and day. Damian's behavior in TT was given a completely unsatisfactory explanation that changed from when the run started to when it ended. Here, he just got killed and brought back to life, so he knows through experience there are no consequences for his actions (re:beating every competitor before him and winning the tournament), at least insofar as it concerns combat in the tournament, because I'm sure there are going to be consequences for Damian sneaking into somewhere he's not supposed to see.

Also, I loved Rose keeping an eye on Damian and watching out for him. He now has two big sisters.

But hey, if this comic is not doing it for you, that's perfectly acceptable. You are under no obligation to read something you're not enjoying.

----------


## Fergus

> So how we feeling about Flatline? I like her but not as a romance subplot or anything just as someone fun who seems to be an equal match for Damian in a fight.


I want the series to focus on Damian building relationships that are not romantic [Damian and Conner and Rose and Flatline bonding and becoming friends]. Damian never strokes me as a character that would do romance. Tom Taylor and the DCAMU surprised me with how well they made the character in a relationship work but deep down I want him to end up old and living with his cat.

But a lot of comic fans enjoy ships so won't be surprised if he does have a thing with Flatline.

----------


## Katana500

Kid XXL I think will be a whole lot of fun!

I look forward to Damian facing a character even more cocky and arrogant than himself!

----------


## Fergus

> Meanwhile, Rose is getting messed up. She finally moved past the whole stupid Geoff Johns "Ravager" thing in Priest's Deathstroke, and yet...


What's happening to Rose? Haven't read the issue yet.

----------


## Katana500

> What's happening to Rose? Haven't read the issue yet.


I don't want to spoil the issue for you cause its so good!

But she wants to help train Damian. 

I also think its pretty clear she wants his help as well for whatever reason she is on the island!

----------


## garazza

Is it just me or did Kid XXL remind anyone else of Nick Diaz or any other cocky MMA fighter because I know Melnikov and his friend and fellow artist Ramon Villalobos both like MMA and talk about it on twitter.

----------


## Katana500

> Is it just me or did Kid XXL remind anyone else of Nick Diaz or any other cocky MMA fighter because I know Melnikov and his friend and fellow artist Ramon Villalobos both like MMA and talk about it on twitter.


I think it will definitely have been an influence!

I really liked the touch that he has a bunch of annoying obnoxious groupies following him about!

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> Good for you people. I'm done wasting my time with this shit.


Hey, hey, hey! This is a comic of the highest caliber. It is most certainly not what you are claiming!

----------


## Fergus

> Hey, hey, hey! This is a comic of the highest caliber. It is most certainly not what you are claiming!


Subjective. It's the highest calibre comic to you and shit to others. Poster's not feeling the direction and that's sad but fair. 

This title had a very good response. According to Williamson, " it exceeded his expectations sales wise".

Hope more come on board and join the many experiencing this Highest calibre comic  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Fergus

> I don't want to spoil the issue for you cause its so good!
> 
> But she wants to help train Damian. 
> 
> I also think its pretty clear she wants his help as well for whatever reason she is on the island!


Doesn't sound like they are messing her up. I can't wait to read it. I enjoyed Rose and Damian's interactions back in the pre-flashpoint era.

----------


## Blue22

> Subjective. It's the highest calibre comic to you and shit to others. Poster's not feeling the direction and that's sad but fair.


If you've seen this dude's other posts around here, he was most likely trolling/being sarcastic lol

----------


## Shen

> If you've seen this dude's other posts around here, he was most likely trolling/being sarcastic lol


And to think I almost began to miss them. Now all we need is a guest cameo from Prepmaster and we've got the whole gang back together again.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> Subjective. It's the highest calibre comic to you and shit to others. Poster's not feeling the direction and that's sad but fair. 
> 
> This title had a very good response. According to Williamson, " it exceeded his expectations sales wise".
> 
> Hope more come on board and join the many experiencing this Highest calibre comic


Subjectivity? I don't know the meaning of the word! Tom King's Batman is a masterpiece, Bendis is the greatest writer to ever touch Superman, and the best Robin is Ace the Bat-hound.

----------


## Shen

Okay, just read it myself and I've gotta agree with Katana500, this issue was great!

Flatline is quickly becoming one of my favorites (she'll definitely grow on Dami in time - she reminds me a bit of Maya) and Rose is just an awesome big sis who wants to help her angry baby bro out XD 

Also, Damian actually looks his age - which is refreshing.

----------


## Morgoth

What's the point of the manga he's reading? Some significant emphasis is placed on it.

----------


## Blue22

> What's the point of the manga he's reading? Some significant emphasis is placed on it.


So far it's just a slightly heavy handed reference to his whole little story arc about familial expectations. There may be some more significance as the story progresses but so far that's all it is.

----------


## Fergus

> If you've seen this dude's other posts around here, he was most likely trolling/being sarcastic lol


Oh I know. I was taking the mickey

----------


## Fergus

> Subjectivity? I don't know the meaning of the word! Tom King's Batman is a masterpiece, Bendis is the greatest writer to ever touch Superman, and the best Robin is Ace the Bat-hound.


Look it up then. 
Tom King's Batman is a multi award winning run. the critics and a ridiculous number of the buying audience seem to agree that it is a Masterpiece. 
Many long standing Superman fans on this very site loved Bendis' run on Superman. 
Ace wasn't a Robin but he is the 1st Batman sidekick to be getting a lead role in a movie in this new era so WB seems to think he is worth the investment.

----------


## Drako

This book is fun and the art is great.
But the magic power of this Island that you can die two times and get back or whatever seems kinda cheap to me, looks like something out of Dragon Ball.

----------


## Blue22

> This book is fun and the art is great.
> But the magic power of this Island that you can die two times and get back or whatever seems kinda cheap to me, looks like something out of Dragon Ball.


My guess is that they're just dumping the dead combatants in the big ass Lazarus pit that Damian found, and after the third time they stop.

Momentary pit madness would also go a long way in explaining Damian suddenly going kill crazy xD

----------


## Jackalope89

> My guess is that they're just dumping the dead combatants in the big ass Lazarus pit that Damian found, and after the third time they stop.
> 
> Momentary pit madness would also go a long way in explaining Damian suddenly going kill crazy xD


After reading issue 2; gonna have to go with a "no" on that one. They seem to pop back up after a little bit of dead time. 

Though, Flatline being a heartbreaker, I don't think the term was ever meant to be literal for poor Damian.

----------


## Blue22

> After reading issue 2; gonna have to go with a "no" on that one. They seem to pop back up after a little bit of dead time.


Yeah, that might be the only hole in my theory. But I figured something as keeping him from waking up in the pit or something. [Shrug] Or maybe it's just a magic immortality island that just also happens to have a Lazarus pit lol

----------


## Shen

There are soo many theories that have spawned in my head after reading #2.

----------


## Fergus

> There are soo many theories that have spawned in my head after reading #2.


Care to share  :Smile:

----------


## Eckri

Alright read Robin 2.

Not as bad as the leaks say, and loving it. Yeah Damian killing the Assassins knowing there was a revive mechanic just gave him the reason to kill, but I'll keep a watch on that.

A fun little issue.

Points I like where how Damian and Hawke are interacting, oh I can already see the rivalry. But ultimately, guessing is that Damian helps Hawke break free from his manipulation from the League, then became best buds.

Then the thing with Lazarus resurrection and Alfred. I'm guessing this is all a ploy to resurrect Alfred, ala Injustce. But in the end I think Flatline dies, and now Alfred's ghost tells Damian it's time to let go. Damian gets his closure for Alfred's death, and resurrects Flatline. And he and she became best buds. 

Then there's Rose and Damian. Oh man this is some huge Damian and Stephanie vibes, acting like a douche and she fires back, love that dynamic in Steph's Batgirl run. Damian finally respecting Stephanie at the end of her Batgirl run was fantastic. Guessing by the end of the arc, Damian will respect Rose as he did with Stephanie. Also,  Ravager teaching Damian how to have fun, well Steph did it first at a bounce house though Damian did threaten to stab her, but it's a group of assassins so stab away.

Then the panel where Rose read Damian's manga, just brought a smile. Pure meme material, already I can see the edits of Damian's manga being replaced with other comics or manga.  Oh here's one I found, even more embarrassing for anyone to discover. 

If Jon can read his thing So can I.jpg

Overall a fun issue to start the events, next issue is all about the Beach interactions. Damian once more into the frey of socializing with Rose's supervision. See it now, Damian does something or about to start something awkward, and Rose saves his butt. Huh, reminding so much of that time Stephanie found out Damian doesn't know how to act fun. Huh, guess Rose replaces Stephanie as Damian's older sister, that's a bummer.

----------


## Light of Justice

Finally read the issue and I really enjoyed it!
I said it before that I have no problem with Damian killing again as long as there's no one belittle him, but in this chapter it was justified for many reason:
1. Rose said that the tournament will not start if everyone haven't died yet once. And Damian came to that island not to be a hero, but to unravel league of lazarus's mysteries. As someone who always so focused on his mission, it's ordinary for him to speed up the process. Especially if there's no long lasting side effect
2. On his conversation with Flatline, he confirmed that he held back on his fight with Flatline because he doesn't know the tournament's rule (namely resurrection stuff). Damian maybe accepts no killing-rule to give criminals a chance of redemption on RSOB, but unlike Batman, he's never disgusted by the act of killing. His killing spree certainly didn't rob those criminal for a chance of redemption, because they got resirrection and they even can resigned after their second death
3. After the humiliating defeat on first issue, he needs to show that he's not a kid who only can do big talk. And after the whole drama of "to kill or not to kill? You kill? You kill? How could you!" on many of his previous issue before it's refreshing to see him like "fuck it, I kill, but they got resurrected after all"
Really looking forward for the next issue!

----------


## hairys

> Then there's Rose and Damian. *Oh man this is some huge Damian and Stephanie vibes*, acting like a douche and she fires back, love that dynamic in Steph's Batgirl run. Damian finally respecting Stephanie at the end of her Batgirl run was fantastic. Guessing by the end of the arc, Damian will respect Rose as he did with Stephanie. Also,  Ravager teaching Damian how to have fun, well Steph did it first at a bounce house though Damian did threaten to stab her, but it's a group of assassins so stab away.


Totally, was thinking that, too.

----------


## Shen

> Care to share


*spoilers:*
Well, Connor's obviously being manipulated by the shadows. Then there's the Lazarus pit, and the experiments. They're trying to get it stable - and apparently soon it will be (I'm assuming it's something to do with the deaths of the participants - like their souls are fed to the pit) maybe they're trying to resurrect someone/thing. Then there's why this particular Lazarus pit is unstable. Then there's Respawn and Rose's connection, then Damian's own agenda on the island. And the prize for the island is Immortality - which can mean lots of things. Being so great a fighter that you're remembered like Caesar and Genghis Khan, or actual immortality like living forever, or maybe the winner will be the eternal vessel of whatever they might be trying to resurrect from this pit.
*end of spoilers*

Idk, random spitballing but these were my thoughts XD

----------


## HsssH

I find the argument about killing being ok because they'll just get resurrected a bit absurd. Heroes don't do bad things not because there might be some consequences to their actions, but because they are good people and doing bad things is wrong. Here Damian kills multiple people and smiles while doing it. He likes killing people, he just doesn't like the consequences. He is not a hero. And hey, some people like Damian killing people so more power to them, but thats where my journey with this title ends.

I was ok with Tomasi doing it in his first New 52 arc because it was a reboot and it wasn't entirely clear what was and wasn't still in continuity so it was understandable. I don't understand why 10 years later we still have to repeat same story beats.

And another minor complaint, I don't understand what is the point of doing a tournament where you declare that 4 of the 5 top threats are new characters.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I find the argument about killing being ok because they'll just get resurrected a bit absurd. Heroes don't do bad things not because there might be some consequences to their actions, but because they are good people and doing bad things is wrong. Here Damian kills multiple people and smiles while doing it. He likes killing people, he just doesn't like the consequences. He is not a hero. And hey, some people like Damian killing people so more power to them, but thats where my journey with this title ends.
> 
> I was ok with Tomasi doing it in his first New 52 arc because it was a reboot and it wasn't entirely clear what was and wasn't still in continuity so it was understandable. I don't understand why 10 years later we still have to repeat same story beats.
> 
> And another minor complaint, I don't understand what is the point of doing a tournament where you declare that 4 of the 5 top threats are new characters.


Well, if by definition heroes don't do bad things, then all heroes in the comic universe pretty much failed on their job. Punching people is a bad thing. Hacking is a bad thing. Public destruction is a bad thing. Even non-permanent killing sounds better than those, and almost every hero in DC world does it. Besides, even though that book is supposed to stir Damian toward heroic path, pretty sure that Damian came to that island not as a hero (even though I really don't understand why he used Robin as handle name). 

About new character, maybe to prevent some "comic fans" bitching about their character was jobbed for Damian? Like King Snake, he's like one of the first Tim Drake's villain as Robin but just because early Tim Drake had difficulty defeating him, people said that King Snake was weakened for Damian. And the recent Hawke vs Raptor. I feel like it's only yesterday when people said that Hawke is one of the best fighters in the DC world, but when he K.O -ed Raptor, fans yelled about Raptor is a villain whom Nightwing had difficulty with defeating, and that fight apparently demeaning Nightwing comic. There's no win for them except making bunch of new character whom no one will care.

----------


## Drako

> Well, if by definition heroes don't do bad things, then all heroes in the comic universe pretty much failed on their job. Punching people is a bad thing. Hacking is a bad thing. Public destruction is a bad thing.* Even non-permanent killing sounds better than those*, and almost every hero in DC world does it. Besides, even though that book is supposed to stir Damian toward heroic path, pretty sure that Damian came to that island not as a hero (even though I really don't understand why he used Robin as handle name).


You're reaching here. Saying that punching or hacking is worse than throwing a knife into someone's forehead is a reach.
Like i said, this book is fun, but i don't dig this magical thing.




> About new character, maybe to prevent some "comic fans" bitching about their character was jobbed for Damian? Like King Snake, he's like one of the first Tim Drake's villain as Robin but just because early Tim Drake had difficulty defeating him, people said that King Snake was weakened for Damian. And the recent Hawke vs Raptor. I feel like it's only yesterday when people said that Hawke is one of the best fighters in the DC world, but when he K.O -ed Raptor, fans yelled about Raptor is a villain whom Nightwing had difficulty with defeating, and that fight apparently demeaning Nightwing comic. There's no win for them except making bunch of new character whom no one will care.


I didn't like Raptor being there, i still don't, but him getting beat by Connor is fine.

----------


## adrikito

I saw ROBIN 2... I loved Damian and Rose interactions.. 

Obtain Inmortality.. It made me think in Batman 666.. I think that they are saying in part the truth and those who die for 3rd time soul will end trapped in that Lazarus Pit to give to only one person(maybe not the winner) the inmortality.

People is already shipping Damian... I already failed 2 times.

https://screenrant.com/robin-flatlin...dc-comics/amp/

----------


## Shen

> I saw ROBIN 2... I loved Damian and Rose interactions.. 
> 
> Obtain Inmortality.. It made me think in Batman 666.. I think that they are saying in part the truth and those who die for 3rd time soul will end trapped in that Lazarus Pit to give to only one person(maybe not the winner) the inmortality.
> 
> People is already shipping Damian... I already failed 2 times.
> 
> https://screenrant.com/robin-flatlin...dc-comics/amp/


For the love of... They just SPOKE to each other! Ffs man, I know I should just ignore this and carry on but seriously?! 

Sometimes I just wanna hire Talia. Originally the Al-Ghuls were Eco-terrorists, but I'm sure they'd agree with me that a lot of genetic trees need some cutting.

Okay, that was a bit much...

Then again, it's not as excessive as that article's exaggeration of a few pages with characters simply interacting. 

Bet they'll ship him with Rose next.

----------


## garazza

Are people actually shipping Damian and Flatline or are comic journalists just saying people are shipping them because they think people are shipping them, because I've seen no evidence of shipping outside of posts complaining about shipping after only looking at a few panels?

----------


## Blue22

> Are people actually shipping Damian and Flatline or are comic journalists just saying people are shipping them because they think people are shipping them, because I've seen no evidence of shipping outside of posts complaining about shipping after only looking at a few panels?


I see a few people online shipping them but for the most part it's just screenrant being screenrant. Honestly I'm surprised they never made a DamiJon article lol

----------


## Jackalope89

> For the love of... They just SPOKE to each other! Ffs man, I know I should just ignore this and carry on but seriously?! 
> 
> Sometimes I just wanna hire Talia. Originally the Al-Ghuls were Eco-terrorists, but I'm sure they'd agree with me that a lot of genetic trees need some cutting.
> 
> Okay, that was a bit much...
> 
> Then again, it's not as excessive as that article's exaggeration of a few pages with characters simply interacting. 
> 
> *Bet they'll ship him with Rose next.*


Er, about that....

----------


## Blue22

> Er, about that....


Yeah that ship set sail a looooooooooong time ago. And, honestly, if they were the same age and I wasn't already a Bart/Rose shipper....I'd be all for it.

----------


## Eckri

https://www.gamesradar.com/dc-august...solicitations/

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/full...solicitations/

Well boys, some new solicitations just came about 4 hours ago. 

Here's what they say about Robin#5

Story by JOSHUA WILLIAMSON
Art by GLEB MELNIKOV
Cover by JORGE CORONA
ON SALE: 8/24/21
$3.99 US | 32 PAGES | FC | DC
variant by Francis Manapul
Price $4.99 US (Card Stock)

Robin Issue 5.jpg

"Robin reunion! Nightwing, Red Hood, Tim Drake, and Spoiler guest-star as they track Damian down with a plan to bring the young hero back to Gotham. Back to his family. But the son of Batman plans to win the Lazarus Tournament and refuses to return. What starts as a happy reunion quickly turns into a Robin rumble!"

I really did not expect it to be that soon. Your guys' thoughts on this? I expected a reunion after he does his all Lazarus Tournament, they got four robins against one.

----------


## Eckri

https://www.reddit.com/gallery/nlmp7o

Well, some panels from the preview of the Robins comic. 

Notable panels are when Damian calls out Tim Drake for using the code name "The Drake", and he calls him Red Robin.
Which is interesting since at that point and time, it was during Damian's run in with the Teen Titans, as well as shortly afterwards where Tim ditched his Drake outfit for his current one that appeared in Joker War.

----------


## garazza

I like that my man Jorge Corona did the cover. That's cool.

As for the Robin "reunion," isn't the entire the point of the first arc to get Damian away from Gotham and the Batfamily? After issue 8, do whatever you want. Until then, any appearance by any member of the Batfamily is too premature. Still, I doubt anything meaningful can be done with the rest of the Robins in one issue unless they stick around for the rest the arc, which would literally undercut the fact this is Damian's book and he's supposed to developing his independence. You want to see all the Robins in one place? Go read Tim Seeley's book.

----------


## dietrich

> https://www.gamesradar.com/dc-august...solicitations/
> 
> https://bleedingcool.com/comics/full...solicitations/
> 
> Well boys, some new solicitations just came about 4 hours ago. 
> 
> Here's what they say about Robin#5
> 
> Story by JOSHUA WILLIAMSON
> ...


JW did mention that the Robin's will show up and they fight. Looking forward to it and at the same time I'm not.

Enough with Robins fighting each other.

----------


## Shen

> https://www.gamesradar.com/dc-august...solicitations/
> 
> https://bleedingcool.com/comics/full...solicitations/
> 
> Well boys, some new solicitations just came about 4 hours ago. 
> 
> Here's what they say about Robin#5
> 
> Story by JOSHUA WILLIAMSON
> ...


I like how they call him "Tim Drake" instead of a codename like everyone else. Issue #5 seems a bit early for this, but I guess we'll have to see what happens.

----------


## Shen

> Yeah that ship set sail a looooooooooong time ago. And, honestly, if they were the same age and I wasn't already a Bart/Rose shipper....I'd be all for it.


If they were roughly the same age, I guess I'd also like the ship. Except I already ship Jay and Rose (Thank you DCeased). Plus there's the Batman vs Deathstroke storyline that almost made them actual family. Even if it's not true, it's still weird for me to think of em as anything more.

----------


## Jackalope89

> If they were roughly the same age, I guess I'd also like the ship. Except I already ship Jay and Rose (Thank you DCeased). Plus there's the Batman vs Deathstroke storyline that almost made them actual family. Even if it's not true, it's still weird for me to think of em as anything more.


Its not my first choice, but I'm fine with Rose and Jason. Both can skirt that grey side without breaking character. 

Rose and Damian... Bad enough I have to sift through Damian x Raven ships, but at least they were portrayed as a similar age in the animated films. I don't want to get any where near Rose x Damian.

----------


## Blue22

Rose and Bart Allen had so much potential to be a really unexpected, but interesting, relationship, pre-Flashpoint. Like Gar and Raven was. I would have loved to have seen it actually go somewhere. But I can definitely see why Jason and (an older) Damian would also be easy ship material for her.




> JW did mention that the Robin's will show up and they fight. Looking forward to it and at the same time I'm not.
> 
> Enough with Robins fighting each other.


Yeah on one hand, bringing the Robins together is a sure-fire way to put a smile on my face. Especially whenever Steph is remembered. But on the other hand....this is so unnecessary. I really wish they had kept the Batfamily out of this until the tournament was over. Especially if the end result is just the Robins duking it out again.

----------


## Eckri

> Yeah on one hand, bringing the Robins together is a sure-fire way to put a smile on my face. Especially whenever Steph is remembered. But on the other hand....this is so unnecessary. I really wish they had kept the Batfamily out of this until the tournament was over. Especially if the end result is just the Robins duking it out again.


Let's go with likely reason they're fighting Damian is training. 
I mean you mean to tell me that all four robins are going to drag Damian back to Gotham in a fight, c'mon we all it's a misleading way of putting. 

It's going to start with Damian refusing to back to Gotha, the Robins having a mutual understanding that Damian needs to do this on his own, and do training panels so at least he's better prepared.
That's my guess.

----------


## dietrich

I think Damian and Rose works. I've always found their interactions entertaining. Going back to the pre flashpoint days. They bounce off each other well, love their banter.

Plus it allows Damian to pass another dodgy Robin [well Replacement Robins] rite of passage. 'Dating/wowing your bro's ex'  :Smile: 

He's died
He was replaced
so on to the next one.

----------


## garazza

I remember Williamson saying in a podcast that he writes the solicitations for Robin himself, and he does that because someone else generally writes the solicits for a writer's book and they often spoil the book before it comes out and Williamson wants to avoid that with his books, so I think it's meant to be misleading that the other Robins are coming to Lazarus Island to take Damian back to Gotham. I'd say in issue 5 the issue flashbacks to the what the Batfamily has been doing since issue 1 and meanwhile in Damian's plot, he has to reminisce about how the Batfamily has both mistreated and supported him.

----------


## dietrich

The series started with Batman and the family looking for him. By issue 5 they find him. That doesn't feel too soon. The 1st issue set up this 'Robins drop by', showing the outcome in issue 5 makes sense. Pacing-wise.

Resolve that plot then move on with the series so readers are kept wondering what happened with that.

----------


## dietrich

> I remember Williamson saying in a podcast that he writes the solicitations for Robin himself, and he does that because someone else generally writes the solicits for a writer's book and they often spoil the book before it comes out and Williamson wants to avoid that with his books, so I think it's meant to be misleading that the other Robins are coming to Lazarus Island to take Damian back to Gotham. I'd say in issue 5 the issue flashbacks to the what the Batfamily has been doing since issue 1 and meanwhile in Damian's plot, he has to reminisce about how the Batfamily has both mistreated and supported him.


Williamson said in an interview *spoilers:*
[the one that mentions Cass that HellyeahTeenheroes blog was mad salty about. I recognised your username from ur replies]
*end of spoilers*

that issue 5 resolves the most skilled Robin debate so they are fighting.

----------


## Shen

> I think Damian and Rose works. I've always found their interactions entertaining. Going back to the pre flashpoint days. They bounce off each other well, love their banter.
> 
> Plus it allows Damian to pass another dodgy Robin [well *Replacement Robins*] rite of passage. '*Dating/wowing your bro's ex'* 
> 
> He's died
> He was replaced
> so on to the next one.


Technically I only remember Jay doing this. But they are very similar guys XD

IMG_20210527_064354.jpg

IMG_20210527_064554.jpg

----------


## garazza

> Williamson said in an interview *spoilers:*
> [the one that mentions Cass that HellyeahTeenheroes blog was mad salty about. I recognised your username from ur replies]
> *end of spoilers*
> 
> that issue 5 resolves the most skilled Robin debate so they are fighting.


It _metaphorically_ resolves the best Robin "debate." It'll probably be some catch-all answer like "We're all the best Robin!" or "We're all special in our own ways!" Williamson doesn't strike me as the type to willingly tread into these hot waters without a really good plan.

*spoilers:*
I see my reputation precedes me. I am a preeminent advocate for all the characters I love.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Arsenal

Bruce and Damian obviously need the most work but I do hope issue 5 plants the seeds to (re)build his relationships with the rest of the family down the line. That’s really all I want from the issue. Don’t really care about the “whose the best Robin/fighter/detective/whatever” stuff since none of it matters anyway.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Technically I only remember Jay doing this. But they are very similar guys XD
> 
> IMG_20210527_064354.jpg
> 
> IMG_20210527_064554.jpg


Hate to say it, but that's about the best I've seen Jason and Damian get along. Yeah, they had that little "partnership" that never went anywhere, except for the author of Teen Titans to bury Damian's character in numerous ways, but even that was strained at best. And most of the vitriol between them has been tipped off by Damian.

But all the more reason for this Robins series. I want to see the Robins hash things out with words, and not beat the crap out of one another (physically or emotionally) for once.

----------


## adrikito

> https://www.gamesradar.com/dc-august...solicitations/
> 
> https://bleedingcool.com/comics/full...solicitations/
> 
> Well boys, some new solicitations just came about 4 hours ago. 
> 
> Here's what they say about Robin#5
> 
> Story by JOSHUA WILLIAMSON
> ...


I was not expecting it neither


It appeared in a TERRIBLE MOMENT this cover&issue.. 

Now a lot of HATERS have one excuse to give doubts to OTHERS to not vote ROBINS comic with the excuse that they reunite here.. Seriously?? You think that is better vote for Harley?  :Mad:

----------


## Light of Justice

> https://www.gamesradar.com/dc-august...solicitations/
> 
> https://bleedingcool.com/comics/full...solicitations/
> 
> Well boys, some new solicitations just came about 4 hours ago. 
> 
> Here's what they say about Robin#5
> 
> Story by JOSHUA WILLIAMSON
> ...


Why I have a feeling that issue will be like Jon vs Teen Titans? As someone who wants to let Damian alone after a long time, JW is so quick to bring Batfam to the table. Truthfully I have mixed feeling about this.
And seriously, why is Jason that bulky? I remember his posture on Infinite Frontier Batfam and he's also strangely so...muscled

----------


## Lucas 35

https://twitter.com/Williamson_Josh/...39337061273607

----------


## garazza

> https://twitter.com/Williamson_Josh/...39337061273607


Glad to see there won't be as much angst between the two of them as some fans have been expecting from this series. I've found Connor to be a surprisingly good fit for Damian. Jon really resonated with Damian as a peer his own age, but Connor from I've heard is an internally-conflicted character, something he shares with Damian, so I'm sure Damian will be surprised and comforted by the fact they have so much in common emotionally (which is why it'll be all the more heart-breaking when they finally cross paths in the tournament) much like how him and Rose have good chemistry despite their short acquaintanceship.

----------


## Fergus

> https://twitter.com/Williamson_Josh/...39337061273607


This looks so good.

----------


## dietrich

https://otter-the-author.tumblr.com

----------


## dietrich



----------


## dietrich

https://otter-the-author.tumblr.com

----------


## Blue22

Oh my God! I needed the laugh that both of those gave me XD

----------


## dietrich

> Oh my God! I needed the laugh that both of those gave me XD


I love this guy's art. 

I rag on the Supersons comics sometimes but I do miss this bromance.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I think Robin 2021 is being same as Super Sons 2021 I made my expectations too high ><, I see the scenes like "it's being silly when should be serious and serious when should be funny" >< I don't want be like my dad, but I ending doing comparisons with original Super Sons and Robin - Son of Batman (the comics) that I really liked.
But still like it and will follow...
The art is SO good and each comic looks like see someone playing a game XD, still funny, I can almost heard the "plim" when Rose finish a phrase and explain things and a "loading" in the end of each chapter.

Aaaaannnd about this ship >\\\< after Jaytemis I am upset about this great dinamic couples that show up and can have a great development and are broke without a good reason because is easier for the next writer, like I waaant to ship them, but I don't know if I should, sorry for being so dramatic....

***did some explanation about why Artemis went away show up?

And Iiiiiiifffff I ship them, how would it be called???
-FlatRobin???
-RobinLine???

***I said it before but I really don't like when they do Robins like same women again and again instead of add new relevant female characters, because this I liked Damian with Djinn and Jon (Raven too, but is an exception).

----------


## Jackalope89

> 


The only unbelievable part in this, is Starfire being cold, lol.

But yeah. While waiting for Multiversal Constant to be updated (slow, but worth it), Trinity has been a good fanfic to read. The only difference is that Jon in that one starts out the same age as Damian, and we also get Lyta Prince to add to the duo. Coming of age, with each getting their own personal arcs, and junior high school.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> The only unbelievable part in this, is Starfire being cold, lol.
> 
> But yeah. While waiting for Multiversal Constant to be updated (slow, but worth it), Trinity has been a good fanfic to read. The only difference is that Jon in that one starts out the same age as Damian, and we also get Lyta Prince to add to the duo. Coming of age, with each getting their own personal arcs, and junior high school.


Waaaaiit??? What is it you are talking about?? @w@

----------


## Jackalope89

> Waaaaiit??? What is it you are talking about?? @w@


Fanfics. Non slash, and canon-compliant to a certain point (both ignore the Jon age up, for example).

----------


## Shen

> The only unbelievable part in this, is Starfire being cold, lol.
> 
> But yeah. While waiting for Multiversal Constant to be updated (slow, but worth it), Trinity has been a good fanfic to read. The only difference is that Jon in that one starts out the same age as Damian, and we also get Lyta Prince to add to the duo. Coming of age, with each getting their own personal arcs, and junior high school.


Multiversal constant is still getting updated?! I thought the author stopped. 

I've heard about Trinity but I haven't read it yet, and after watching Superman and Lois, I really wanna see Damian and Jon in the same Highschool or something along the lines of school life. 
Supersons has that, but it's more about their adventures. 

I just wanna see em both on the Football team together XD

----------


## Jackalope89

> Multiversal constant is still getting updated?! I thought the author stopped. 
> 
> I've heard about Trinity but I haven't read it yet, and after watching Superman and Lois, I really wanna see Damian and Jon in the same Highschool or something along the lines of school life. 
> Supersons has that, but it's more about their adventures. 
> 
> I just wanna see em both on the Football team together XD


Multiversal Constant had one back in February. So, slow, but yeah. 

But Trinity explores the mythos of each of the Trinity's groups (Lyta's connections to the Greek Gods, Jon's more out of this world stuff, and Damian being a Detective), with cameos by other characters.

----------


## Shen

> Multiversal Constant had one back in February. So, slow, but yeah. 
> 
> But Trinity explores the mythos of each of the Trinity's groups (Lyta's connections to the Greek Gods, Jon's more out of this world stuff, and Damian being a Detective), with cameos by other characters.


Oh, that still sounds epic. I like how the focus is more on Damian's paternal heritage. I'm guessing Lyta's the leader while Damian is the strategist. I'd love this Dynamic so much if it were canon.
I think I'm gonna start reading that right now.

----------


## Shen

> I think Robin 2021 is being same as Super Sons 2021 I made my expectations too high ><, I see the scenes like "it's being silly when should be serious and serious when should be funny" >< I don't want be like my dad, but I ending doing comparisons with original Super Sons and Robin - Son of Batman (the comics) that I really liked.
> But still like it and will follow...
> The art is SO good and each comic looks like see someone playing a game XD, still funny, I can almost heard the "plim" when Rose finish a phrase and explain things and a "loading" in the end of each chapter.
> 
> Aaaaannnd about this ship >\\\< after Jaytemis I am upset about this great dinamic couples that show up and can have a great development and are broke without a good reason because is easier for the next writer, like I waaant to ship them, but I don't know if I should, sorry for being so dramatic....
> 
> ***did some explanation about why Artemis went away show up?
> 
> And Iiiiiiifffff I ship them, how would it be called???
> ...


Yeah, all of us were so excited when we heard Damian was getting an ongoing - it's kind of hard not to build expectations. 
Although, I also _want_ to compare this to Robin: Son of Batman, but I won't yet because that story has already been told completely while this one has barely started. It's like comparing a chicken to an egg.

Like Astralabius, for me R:SOB is the height of Damian's morality. It was compelling and really well done, and it gave both Main Characters a meaningful character arc.
This current Robin Ongoing is telling a different story in a different situation. Damian isn't looking for Redemption, he's trying to solve a mystery. So while he can reject the notion of Killing again - that isn't the main focus of his journey yet.

As for shipping, go ahead. Ship em while we've got em XD.
I'm not saying they'll be the next Bruce/Selina but it'll be fun to explore. I just don't like stuff like that Screenrant article already throwing around words like "Love" when the characters just met like a few hours ago. (Also, they called Flatline Lord Death Man's Daughter. To my knowledge, she's only his sidekick. Is there something I haven't seen that states she's his kid?)

It might also be possible that some of the new characters could be Damian's new rogues one day - like how King Snake was Tim's villain and Raptor is Dick's villain.
Perhaps people like Respawn, Black Swan and Flatline will be his own Rogues.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Oh, that still sounds epic. I like how the focus is more on Damian's paternal heritage. I'm guessing Lyta's the leader while Damian is the strategist. I'd love this Dynamic so much if it were canon.
> I think I'm gonna start reading that right now.


"Leader" is too strong a word. More like, they each take the lead when it falls into their expertise.

----------


## adrikito

> https://twitter.com/Williamson_Josh/...39337061273607


I like the image..

When more I see Damian costume more I desire to see him with it during a lot of time.

----------


## dietrich

> I like the image..
> 
> When more I see Damian costume more I desire to see him with it during a lot of time.


Can't blame you. That costume is fire.

----------


## Rac7d*

0CA4A3DE-3453-4062-9240-28933DA71126.jpg
The casual look

----------


## dietrich

> 0CA4A3DE-3453-4062-9240-28933DA71126.jpg
> The casual look


I have to say this isn't what i think when I think of off duty Damian. My God he's peek Teen. 

No wonder Bruce isn't so eager to get him back.

Is that Rose next to him?

----------


## Morgoth

It's Flatline. 
https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...89622342553602

----------


## dietrich

> It's Flatline. 
> https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...89622342553602


You know what? They look good. I'm with Screen rant. I ship it.

----------


## Rac7d*

> You know what? They look good. I'm with Screen rant. I ship it.


I wouldn’t go that far, I not down for shipping every female Damian stands next to. Damian has show affection for one girl and the writers set him up to not only loose but crash and burn. I say just be friends for now.
276EC97D-D42E-4816-8BBB-799D4E8AB09B.jpg

----------


## dietrich

> I wouldnt go that far, I not down for shipping every female Damian stands next to. Damian has show affection for one girl and the writers set him up to not only loose but crash and burn. I say just be friends for now.
> 276EC97D-D42E-4816-8BBB-799D4E8AB09B.jpg


Damian has stood next to lots of girls and has never had a relationship so not sure what you mean.


The one girl he showed affection for [Emi] he didn't crash and burn she just liked someone else.

This would be literally his 1st ship.

Emi, Maya, Maps, Rose, Steph, Kathy Damian has an abundance of female friends. He's 14 so he might be ready  for a gF

----------


## Blue22

I think he was talking about Djinn. That's honestly the closest he's come to really getting anywhere with a girl. Even if that relationship wasn't exactly healthy for either of them.

----------


## dietrich

> I think he was talking about Djinn. That's honestly the closest he's come to really getting anywhere with a girl. Even if that relationship wasn't exactly healthy for either of them.


When did he ever show affection for Djinn?

Did he even understand that Djinn liked him? Djinn pressured him and tried to manipulate him into a relationship or even a kiss but I don't recall Damian ever showing any romantic feelings towards her.

The Djinn situation crashed and burned because Damian wasn't interested and Crush was a stupid in lust

----------


## Blue22

Er...The shipteasing was pretty damn strong between those two. So much so that even Roundhouse thought using her was a good way to get back at him. Hell doesn't Damian straight up say in an inner monologue "Whatever Djinn and I had is over now" or something like that, after the prison break? They never go anywhere (though they come pretty close before they got interrupted by the Slade alarm), but I never got the impression that it was totally a one sided thing.

----------


## dietrich

> Er...The shipteasing was pretty damn strong between those two. So much so that even Roundhouse thought using her was a good way to get back at him. Hell doesn't Damian straight up say in an inner monologue "Whatever Djinn and I had is over now" or something like that, after the prison break? They never go anywhere (though they come pretty close before they got interrupted by the Slade alarm), but I never got the impression that it was totally a one sided thing.


We saw a lot of Djinn coming on to him but nothing back. He mostly was confused. He was so oblivious that when crush accused him of hurting someone who cared for him he didn't even know who she was talking about. This is after Djinn confessed by the way.

Yeah they nearly kissed after he got hurt and was feeling at his lowest. Djinn ambushed him. If some goodlooking guy came on to me at a time when I was feeling low I'd likely take them up on the offer. That doesn't mean that I have any interest in dating them.

I think the Djinn thing was just a way for Glass to write Crush smacking Damian around.

----------


## adrikito

> It's Flatline. 
> https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...89622342553602


I like the image.




> He's 14 so he might be ready  for a gF


Maybe. Is the 2nd time that the word *HEART* is touched.

*You helped my to find MY HEART*? Hmmm.. See him reading this kind of manga can be a clue of that? I see more likely see him having a temporal GF than ever.

Robin 2 damian wayne rose wilson image.jpg

----------


## Morgoth

It's actually can be pretty interesting, if Williamson is indeed building some relationship between Damian and Flatline. If he's gonna write it properly, why not? This is also the stage of growing up after all, and it's something that we haven't seen normally with Damian. And they really have pretty fun dynamic.

----------


## Rac7d*

> It's actually can be pretty interesting, if Williamson is indeed building some relationship between Damian and Flatline. If he's gonna write it properly, why not? This is also the stage of growing up after all, and it's something that we haven't seen normally with Damian. And they really have pretty fun dynamic.


I want to know flatline as a person before any shipping, why is she here, why is she lord deaths sidekick, is she compatible with Gotham to appear again later?

----------


## garazza

You have to recall that TT was a badly written comic because it wasn't only Damian who was being forced into a "relationship." Emiko and Wallace were supposedly dating, but the textual evidence for that was insubstantial and worse, out of character, and Damian and Djinn had even less than that. 

Damian and Flatline have not flirted in any of their interactions nor could their interactions ever be construed as flirtatious, nor have they expressed any interest in each other romantically. I don't know how none of you have caught onto this, but you do know they're supposed to be rivals, right? The literal second an unpaired male and unpaired female character appear in the same book, people automatically start assuming they should be in a relationship, like get your heteronormativity out of here.

----------


## PowerPlay25

I'm with those that don't get any kind of potential romantic vibe from Damian and Flatline.

She killed him (even if he did come back) and the only person I can see him letting that go with, is Talia.

Damian is tends to be very strategic and we've seen him foster "alliances" (the Al Ghul in him) that eventually evolve to friendship.   Colin, Maya, Jon, potentially Connor and I could totally see Flatline being included in that list.

He's get a relationship at some point but as of now, I feel like that would be the least interesting thing about him and a waste of page time IMO.   I'm much more interested in his relationships with Bruce, Talia, Dick, Ra's Al Ghul, Tim, Jason, Jon, Titus, Alfred (the cat) and the like, be they family, friend or foe.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I'm with those that don't get any kind of potential romantic vibe from Damian and Flatline.
> 
> She killed him (even if he did come back) and the only person I can see him letting that go with, is Talia.
> 
> Damian is tends to be very strategic and we've seen him foster "alliances" (the Al Ghul in him) that eventually evolve to friendship.   Colin, Maya, Jon, potentially Connor and I could totally see Flatline being included in that list.
> 
> He's get a relationship at some point but as of now, I feel like that would be the least interesting thing about him and a waste of page time IMO.   I'm much more interested in his relationships with Bruce, Talia, Dick, Ra's Al Ghul, Tim, Jason, Jon, Titus, Alfred (the cat) and the like, be they family, friend or foe.


Nxndjdndndndndnnssmksjs loves the part about Talia XD !

Hummm I also DO want to see he relationship with family and previous friends, but I can't hold my self about seeing Damian in a nice happy romantic relationship, can't I have both? TuT the answer is "no because the number of pages" =-=)/

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I don't get why people denial so much about Damian and Djinn liking each other, it did hapenned, was not so nice, but when Damian reveals being Damian Wayne and close his eyes for being kiss is enough proof of his feelings for me!
Hummmm I think they liked it other and accept many defects but not with all defects and any of they want to change for each other, so this needed to end.
Agree Damian got more hurted about this, but it is because he was 13, when you are 8000 years old a relationship with a boy not going well is pretty less relevant than other problems or good things that will happen.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Damian and Flatline have not flirted in any of their interactions nor could their interactions ever be construed as flirtatious, nor have they expressed any interest in each other romantically. I don't know how none of you have caught onto this, but you do know they're supposed to be rivals, right? The literal second an unpaired male and unpaired female character appear in the same book, people automatically start assuming they should be in a relationship, like get your heteronormativity out of here.


But in fiction rivals with good appears, single, same age, compatible sexuality are going to have some romatic relationship, it can be serie, anime, movie, book, childbook, is kind automatic, when I saw Invincible I was like "arrrrr they are going to do a love triangle" aand poof! 
***but, for not being heteronormativity, when I saw about Connor being Damian new rival I was like "omg, am I going to ship them?? Noooo stoooop, you don't even know Connor... but maybeee.... he us kind cuteeee, Damian could like hiiimmmmm"
***and not being heteronormative again, this rule works with lgbt fiction content too, "I am not Starfire" has kinda 6 images in internet and she and the other girl being a thing is  going to happen no matter what... is kind see a anime romantic comedy or BL, you know who is going to be with who in the first chapter.

----------


## Shen

I'm kind of on the fence for this. 

Garazza is right though, they are rivals first and foremost (or frenemies in Flatlines case XD). Sure some rivals grow romantic feelings for each other, but that takes a few arcs worth of development and relationship building. 

The kid barely understands his own feelings. Back in TT he was acting OOC while around Djinn, like being particularly nice to her, complimenting her, hell he pulled a Steve Rogers and jumped on an *explosive* for her. 
To him, that was how he showed affection. 

Even Emiko called Djinn out because Robin was making rash decisions when she was involved (To which _Discount Raven_ had a very violent reaction. Didn't she also erase Emi's memory?). She had no issue ragdolling and mindwiping Emi when her emotions were running high, what are the chances she could've also been manipulating Dami because of *her* feelings. I've always felt that it might be Djinn _unconsciously_ manipulating him, from the moment they met and he asked for her help - she became attached to him. _(That's just a theory though.)_

Even as Dietrich said, Damian states that whatever he and Djinn had between them was gone at the end. He couldn't define it as a romantic relationship because he doesn't understand what that is. 

The only actual times we get something solid is that kiss and when Heretic called Djinn his "Beloved".

This is Bruce Wayne's child were talking about. Feelings might take some time to understand. Although, with Rose and Flatline in the picture, I can easily see him gradually learning. He's not gonna go full Romeo anytime soon, but towards the end of the tournament arc I could definitely see him developing a bond with Flatline that might be potentially more than friendship (Plus, I just love her character thus far XD)

----------


## Jackalope89

> I'm kind of on the fence for this. 
> 
> Garazza is right though, they are rivals first and foremost (or frenemies in Flatlines case XD). Sure some rivals grow romantic feelings for each other, but that takes a few arcs worth of development and relationship building. 
> 
> The kid barely understands his own feelings. Back in TT he was acting OOC while around Djinn, like being particularly nice to her, complimenting her, hell he pulled a Steve Rogers and jumped on an *explosive* for her. 
> To him, that was how he showed affection. 
> 
> Even Emiko called Djinn out because Robin was making rash decisions when she was involved (To which _Discount Raven_ had a very violent reaction. Didn't she also erase Emi's memory?). She had no issue ragdolling and mindwiping Emi when her emotions were running high, what are the chances she could've also been manipulating Dami because of *her* feelings. I've always felt that it might be Djinn _unconsciously_ manipulating him, from the moment they met and he asked for her help - she became attached to him. _(That's just a theory though.)_
> 
> ...


He needs the advice of the one, the only, Rob-zarro!

----------


## Shen

> He needs the advice of the one, the only, Rob-zarro!


I can just imagine Damian's mind failing to comprehend Rob-zarro and just stalling, with eye twitches and everything, before he pulls a sword out of nowhere and starts stabbing XD.

Trinity was such a great read. I finished it this morning, and now I can't wait for more. 
Especially since Lyta's prophecy is starting to take shape in reality.

----------


## dietrich

> He needs the advice of the one, the only, Rob-zarro!


That moustache is so good. Bizarro Damian is genius. He is literally Gomez Adams.

Meaning that real Damian has zero game

----------


## Shen

> That moustache is so good. Bizarro Damian is genius. *He is literally Gomez Adams*.
> 
> Meaning that real Damian has zero game


Oh god, now I'm wondering who his Morticia is. Maybe Bizarro-Maya? I'm just imagining the same panel happening with an opposite reaction.

----------


## adrikito

> He needs the advice of the one, the only, Rob-zarro!


I think that this is the last time that we saw Maya.  :Frown:

----------


## Jackalope89

> I think that this is the last time that we saw Maya.


Not quite. She, Kathy, and Boyzarro all had minor appearances in The Terrifics for an arc. But, nothing since then.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Maya is cute and funny =u= I miss her

----------


## HsssH

Where is that Robzarro thing from? I somehow missed it completely.

----------


## sifighter

So apparently Talia has some pretty interesting ideas about crises and how they’ve effected Damian, from Infinite Frontier: Secret Files #4 today.

Talia believes that Damian was effected by the Crises in that because of changes to reality he now follows Bruce as his sidekick/son instead of being with his mother who raised him. Probably a lot of deniability there on her part but also remember that Williamson is co-writing secret files so that plot might come up in Robin if Williamson wants it to.

----------


## scary harpy

Boyzarro, Robzarro and the Legion of Fun were inspired ideas. 

I miss them and Maya and Kathy too.

----------


## Drako

> He needs the advice of the one, the only, Rob-zarro!


LOL the Bizarro Version of Damian is Pepe Le Pew?

----------


## Light of Justice

> So apparently Talia has some pretty interesting ideas about crises and how they’ve effected Damian, from Infinite Frontier: Secret Files #4 today.
> 
> Talia believes that Damian was effected by the Crises in that because of changes to reality *he now follows Bruce as his sidekick/son instead of being with his mother who raised him.* Probably a lot of deniability there on her part but also remember that Williamson is co-writing secret files so that plot might come up in Robin if Williamson wants it to.


Follow? Pretty sure that now he's running away from both of them

----------


## sifighter

> Follow? Pretty sure that now he's running away from both of them


Wrong choice of words, more that Damian went down his same path in life as Robin instead of being in the league of assassins with his mom. Basically Damian chose Bruce over Talia and Talia thinks thats the result of universe manipulation.

----------


## dietrich

> Where is that Robzarro thing from? I somehow missed it completely.


It's from Tomasi's Superman #43

----------


## dietrich

> So apparently Talia has some pretty interesting ideas about crises and how they’ve effected Damian, from Infinite Frontier: Secret Files #4 today.
> 
> Talia believes that Damian was effected by the Crises in that because of changes to reality he now follows Bruce as his sidekick/son instead of being with his mother who raised him. Probably a lot of deniability there on her part but also remember that Williamson is co-writing secret files so that plot might come up in Robin if Williamson wants it to.


Talia valiantly editing the disappointments in her life to boost her ego/protect her feels reminds m of my mum. It's weirdly endearing.

Hope Williamson doesn't  drag that into Robin.

Damian choose to be a hero before the crises and of his own free will. To imply otherwise undermines Damian.

----------


## KrustyKid

> Talia valiantly editing the disappointments in her life to boost her ego/protect her feels reminds m of my mum. It's weirdly endearing.
> 
> Hope Williamson doesn't  drag that into Robin.
> 
> Damian choose to be a hero before the crises and of his own free will. To imply otherwise undermines Damian.


Couldn't have been said any better

----------


## sifighter

I’m pretty sure that it’s meant to be taken as Talia deluding herself not that the universe/multiverse/omniverse constantly changing is actually causing Damian to side with his father over his mother. I feel like if Damian himself heard that he would have the same reaction as us, but considering that Talia managed to get herself on the Totality and Checkmate I wouldn’t underestimate what she might try to pull to get her way.

----------


## PowerPlay25

I was more taken aback by the pronounced disdain Talia displayed when speaking about "The Detective."

Few things make Talia seethe like any kind of rejection.

I think we are going to see Talia hatching schemes to steer Damian down a similar path to herself.  I feel like Tomasi broached this character beat when he had Talia try to murder Lois Lane in the first Super Son's series.

----------


## HsssH

> I’m pretty sure that it’s meant to be taken as Talia deluding herself not that the universe/multiverse/omniverse constantly changing is actually causing Damian to side with his father over his mother. I feel like if Damian himself heard that he would have the same reaction as us, but considering that Talia managed to get herself on the Totality and Checkmate I wouldn’t underestimate what she might try to pull to get her way.


I wonder if she is not slowly moving back to her Batman Inc./Leviathan ways?

----------


## 9th.

Finally read the first 2 issues of new solo and I love it. I'm here for all the shounen vibes and I really like Flatline.

----------


## dietrich

Talia with Baby Damian



https://romyjones.tumblr.com


They grow up so fast




https://guanidyl.tumblr.com

----------


## dietrich

Damian  and Raven





Supersons



https://romyjones.tumblr.com

----------


## dietrich

Long haired Damian with Alfred The Cat







Talia and Damian



https://romyjones.tumblr.com

----------


## Blue22

Yeesh. I am not feeling long haired Damian, at all.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I think his expression don't match so much with my vision of Damian, maybe also the hair, but is not just the physical, it's more about the gesture... the references are "sexy boys pose" XD

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Uuuhhh! I did had a NICE dream last night!
I was in a kind of movie theater  and there is a serie of movies protagonized by Damian (*-*)/! There was very well done animation (a little more anime style with a cool sword), for some reason I already knew how it's going to end and I was seeing a painful part of the story, but thinking, "this time DC will give him a happy story in the end, the fans are going to be crazy about how good this is..." TuT
Have been a time since I dreamed about characters, so this was a nice one
...

----------


## Jackalope89

Damian with long hair just doesn't work for me. Especially the man-bun.

----------


## Shen

I mean, he can pull it off - but Damian with long hair doesn't seem like something he'd do (not counting Injustice), current Damian would probably see it as a Liability or something. 
Plus he's the type to get angry if someone calls him cute, imagine when they start calling him 'Pretty Boy' XD

I love seeing pictures of him, Talia and Raven tbh, that ship in _it's_ universe worked.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I mean, he can pull it off - but Damian with long hair doesn't seem like something he'd do (not counting Injustice), current Damian would probably see it as a Liability or something. 
> Plus he's the type to get angry if someone calls him cute, imagine when they start calling him 'Pretty Boy' XD
> 
> I love seeing pictures of him, Talia and Raven tbh, that ship in _it's_ universe worked.


But I also can see Damian saying cut hair is a "TT, lost of time", or with chinese clothes with a male chinese pony tail hair =u=)/

Yeaaahh Damian is so cute with Talia :') I love #goodparenttaliaalghul fics, someone posted her reading Alexander's book for him before... it's so scary and pure at the same time...

----------


## dietrich

Agreed. Damian would not do long hair. Maybe for an under cover mission or roleplay ie drama class.

Damian is very bold and stylised with his hero costumes but also quite Spartan.
I don't see him as having long hair as a grown up

----------


## Shen

> But I also can see Damian saying cut hair is a "TT, lost of time", or with chinese clothes with a male chinese pony tail hair =u=)/
> 
> Yeaaahh Damian is so cute with Talia :') I love #goodparenttaliaalghul fics, someone posted her reading Alexander's book for him before... it's so scary and pure at the same time...


Batman 666 did have him rocking that Luthor swag - so no hair seems practical, and Damian's all about practicality.

Love him with Talia as well, which is why I was happy to see them interacting in the Backups. They handled her quite well there. 

I haven't read many fics where Talia is portrayed as anything but an obstacle for Damian to overcome, but there is a few that stand out. One of them centred around a Damian x Stephanie pairing with other Bat characters finding out about their developing relationship. 

Talia was spying on Damian (to check on potential threats to the League, of course. It's not like she's a Tsundere mom) and figured out he was growing attracted to Steph. 
She wasn't having it until she dug deeper into Steph's history and she started liking her (because she's awesome) even with all her "Imperfections". 

The fic is called *People Will Say We're In Love*, it's a good read.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Agreed. Damian would not do long hair. Maybe for an under cover mission or roleplay ie drama class.
> 
> Damian is very bold and stylised with his hero costumes but also quite Spartan.
> I don't see him as having long hair as a grown up


"Quite Spartan" IS a great way to describe Damian (*-*)

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Batman 666 did have him rocking that Luthor swag - so no hair seems practical, and Damian's all about practicality.
> 
> Love him with Talia as well, which is why I was happy to see them interacting in the Backups. They handled her quite well there. 
> 
> I haven't read many fics where Talia is portrayed as anything but an obstacle for Damian to overcome, but there is a few that stand out. One of them centred around a Damian x Stephanie pairing with other Bat characters finding out about their developing relationship. 
> 
> Talia was spying on Damian (to check on potential threats to the League, of course. It's not like she's a Tsundere mom) and figured out he was growing attracted to Steph. 
> She wasn't having it until she dug deeper into Steph's history and she started liking her (because she's awesome) even with all her "Imperfections". 
> 
> The fic is called *People Will Say We're In Love*, it's a good read.


I also don't see an adult Damian with long hair, but maybe being 17? I will do some fanarts tests, can't hold it anymore <3
For me Batman 666 is so dystopic </3 I would prefer Damian not living like this.

#taliaisagoodparent fics generally is with her giving Damian to Bruce early, so in the end they don't have so much interaction, but I like the concept.

***I didn't find this fic by the name, can you pretty please paste the link?

----------


## Shen

> I also don't see an adult Damian with long hair, but maybe being 17? I will do some fanarts tests, can't hold it anymore <3
> For me Batman 666 is so dystopic </3 I would prefer Damian not living like this.
> 
> #taliaisagoodparent fics generally is with her giving Damian to Bruce early, so in the end they don't have so much interaction, but I like the concept.
> 
> ****I didn't find this fic by the name, can you pretty please paste the link?*


Sure. I just searched for it on Archive of our Own and couldn't find it. Luckily I had the link from the PDF.

https://archiveofourown.org/works/16...pters/39643260

----------


## dietrich

Didn't they already apologise?

----------


## Jackalope89

> 


Bravo to Grant for admitting their mistake and wanting to fix it!

Too bad most other writers that have had Damian are too proud to admit their mistakes.

----------


## dietrich

> Bravo to Grant for admitting their mistake and wanting to fix it!
> 
> Too bad most other writers that have had Damian are too proud to admit their mistakes.


Agree.

Didn't they already apologise way back post flash point? I'm sure they did just before thay retconned their own retcon.

the part about Damian being the only good thing they have ever created seems passive aggressive and sarcastic. No way Morrison thinks that or believes that.

I don' t even think Grant like Damian at all.
Not to mention that Morrison isn't one to play down their own accomplishments.

----------


## HsssH

That is not Morrison's twitter. This is real one: https://twitter.com/grantmorrison/with_replies

----------


## delaviux

"ArabianBatBoy" lmao.....

Isn't this person the one who harasses creators because of Damian's skin color?

----------


## garazza

Yes, because confronting creators over the racist act of whitewashing brown and other characters of color is harassment.

They were telling a joke in the same vein as this:

jaboukie-fbi.jpg

----------


## delaviux

"Yes, because...."
You love to speak passive aggressive and be disrespectful huh?
Whatever, keep harassing creators and call it "confronting", I don't care. I suspect that such behavior has the opposite effect to what you want.....

----------


## dietrich

> Yes, because confronting creators over the racist act of whitewashing brown and other characters of color is harassment.
> 
> They were telling a joke in the same vein as this:
> 
> jaboukie-fbi.jpg


It is harassment and it's also ignorant as fuck. Creators don't draw the books. They don't colour the work. That would be the artist.

Not to mention that ensuring representation and spotting inconsistences like Damian's varying pigmentation fall on the editor.

----------


## dietrich

> "ArabianBatBoy" lmao.....
> 
> Isn't this person the one who harasses creators because of Damian's skin color?


Boy talk about barking up the wrong tree.

----------


## dietrich

> That is not Morrison's twitter. This is real one: https://twitter.com/grantmorrison/with_replies


So it was a prank?

Guess I should have figured since Morrison already apologised way back.

----------


## marhawkman

> I also don't see an adult Damian with long hair, but maybe being 17? I will do some fanarts tests, can't hold it anymore <3
> For me Batman 666 is so dystopic </3 I would prefer Damian not living like this.
> 
> #taliaisagoodparent fics generally is with her giving Damian to Bruce early, so in the end they don't have so much interaction, but I like the concept.
> 
> ***I didn't find this fic by the name, can you pretty please paste the link?


Perhaps not long but more.... mid-neck?  Doesn't go all the way to shoulders, but goes a little farther down.

At any rate, I think the best use of Talia is as an emotional obstacle.  Bruce wishes he could see her as just another enemy, especially after Damian.  But that was Talia's entire goal from BEFORE she met him.  She wants Bruce to be WITH her not against her.  When done just right it makes you wonder if Batman should give her what she wants... if only in a limited way.  Damian? Well Talia sending Damian to learn from his father was... the sort of move that's simultaneously cunning and manipulative, as well as kind and caring.  Is it a good thing? Is it insidiously super-mega-evil?  Will we ever be able to figure it out?  Good stuff.  :Big Grin:

----------


## garazza

> "Yes, because...."
> You love to speak passive aggressive and be disrespectful huh?
> Whatever, keep harassing creators and call it "confronting", I don't care. I suspect that such behavior has the opposite effect to what you want.....


Sorry, I forgot that calling out racism was actually worse than actual racism.




> It is harassment and it's also ignorant as fuck. Creators don't draw the books. They don't colour the work. That would be the artist.
> 
> Not to mention that ensuring representation and spotting inconsistences like Damian's varying pigmentation fall on the editor.


It's ignorant to think that whitewashing is simply the result of an individual act done by an individual person and is not part of an overall system/pattern of marginalization and oppression. What you described is a failure on all levels to combat racism in comics and other creative fields. Fans being critical of the art they love and holding creators to account for serious issues like this is not harassment.

Jonboy Meyers was removed from TT Rebirth because he wanted to focus on Damian's heritage and draw him with brown skin. Gleb Melnikov felt much the same way and colored him correctly in the first issue, but the second a new colorist was brought on Damian was colored white. Even when creators do take it upon themselves to do right by Damian and combat racism, it's almost invariably undone or ignored (or in some cases, like Meyers, retaliated against) soon afterwards not because the individuals that follow after them are themselves racist, but because there is inherent bias and discrimination in the creative process of publishing comics that they may not be aware they are perpetuating and so they need to be informed what they are doing is wrong and how to correct it, but if you think that's harassment, that's on you.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Sure. I just searched for it on Archive of our Own and couldn't find it. Luckily I had the link from the PDF.
> 
> https://archiveofourown.org/works/16...pters/39643260


Thanks, I just read it <3 pretty funny fic  :Smile:  and I like how Talia was write ^u^

----------


## dietrich

> Sorry, I forgot that calling out racism was actually worse than actual racism.
> 
> 
> 
> It's ignorant to think that whitewashing is simply the result of an individual act done by an individual person and is not part of an overall system/pattern of marginalization and oppression. What you described is a failure on all levels to combat racism in comics and other creative fields. Fans being critical of the art they love and holding creators to account for serious issues like this is not harassment.
> 
> Jonboy Meyers was removed from TT Rebirth because he wanted to focus on Damian's heritage and draw him with brown skin. Gleb Melnikov felt much the same way and colored him correctly in the first issue, but the second a new colorist was brought on Damian was colored white. Even when creators do take it upon themselves to do right by Damian and combat racism, it's almost invariably undone or ignored (or in some cases, like Meyers, retaliated against) soon afterwards not because the individuals that follow after them are themselves racist, but because there is inherent bias and discrimination in the creative process of publishing comics that they may not be aware they are perpetuating and so they need to be informed what they are doing is wrong and how to correct it, but if you think that's harassment, that's on you.


When did I say that white washing washing was an individual thing?

Matter of fact I made the opposite point.

you are the one who was standing up for the fan picking on individual creators despite knowing full well that the individuals themselves don't have the power to make that change. 

Despite knowing that Artists have lost their jobs over this

Despite knowing that Damian's skin colour isn't decided by these creators but by higher ups. Robin is a corporate character so WB is the one that has final say. WB decide if Damian's racial mix should be reflected in his pigmentation.

Damian is mixed so it's very possible for him to be passing. That doesn't make him any less of a minority [only less visibly so] Perhaps wB/DC are trying to eat their Cake and have it at the same time


If fans are aware that pressuring writers, artists and other targets lower on the food chain doesn't work and might even result in them losing their job then it's especially cruel that they carry applying pressure.

If any fans out there really care about DC making Damian a * visibly ethnic minority*  then apply pressure on DC and WB.

Leave the creators alone and focus on DC nation, Daniel Cherry, the upcoming DC fandome is a chance for fans to gain access to people with real power and clout.

You just pointed out how the some artists would like to have Damian's look reflect his racial mix but they were thwarted and at times punished 

[Jon Meyers a non-white artist in a sector dominated by white artists lost his job. That TT gig would have been a huge thing for Jon but he lost the sweet gig because he did what fans who contact creators re Damian's skin colour implore them to do]

How is that not harrasment? Putting pressure on a person to do something that you know they can't do is Harrasment and for dedicated fans who most likely are aware of the Meyer incident it is extremely cruel.

----------


## Aahz

Honestly I think with Damian the whole race thing is anyway a no win scenario.

If they ignore it people complain about white washing, if they would embrace it the same people would likely complain about how problematic/stereotypical/what ever the Al Ghuls are, or that DCis racist when damian makes again one of his more questionable things (like the Bomb Vest in Teen Titans).

----------


## Konja7

> Yes, because confronting creators over the racist act of whitewashing brown and other characters of color is harassment.


Is it whitewashing when the character was born with white skin? In Damian's creation, he was supossed to look like a mini Bruce.

I mean, Damian has mixed ethnicity, but mixed people could have white pale skin.

----------


## dietrich

> Honestly I think with Damian the whole race thing is anyway a no win scenario.
> 
> If they ignore it people complain about white washing, if they would embrace it the same people would likely complain about how problematic/stereotypical/what ever the Al Ghuls are, or that DCis racist when damian makes again one of his more questionable things (like the Bomb Vest in Teen Titans).


Then writers should just refrain from writing racist stereotypes. Don't write a character that's part middle eastern as a suicide bomber [WTF]. it's not hard. Glass went out of his way to be deliberately racist writing Damian out of character to support his racist portrayal. 

It's a shame. Visibly ethnic minorities are lacking in comics. people go on about Miles and Kamala. Robin is the most iconic sidekick in the world.

DC has had a Middle Eastern/Asian/Jewish Robin for Decades now and they did nothing with that. Sorry they turned him into a suicide bomber and attempted to replace him with a rich white kid from the suburbs.

Clearly all those that have ben pressuring Creators have been wasting their time. Pressure DC/WB not creators

----------


## garazza

> Is it whitewashing when the character was born with white skin? In Damian's creation, he was supossed to look like a mini Bruce.
> 
> I mean, Damian has mixed ethnicity, but mixed people could have white pale skin.


Four out of the past five Robins have white skin, so why not let one of them be brown?




> Then writers should just refrain from writing racist stereotypes. Don't write a character that's part middle eastern as a suicide bomber [WTF]. it's not hard. Glass went out of his way to be deliberately racist writing Damian out of character to support his racist portrayal. 
> 
> It's a shame. Visibly ethnic minorities are lacking in comics. people go on about Miles and Kamala. Robin is the most iconic sidekick in the world.
> 
> DC has had a Middle Eastern/Asian/Jewish Robin for Decades now and they did nothing with that. Sorry they turned him into a suicide bomber and attempted to replace him with a rich white kid from the suburbs.
> 
> Clearly all those that have ben pressuring Creators have been wasting their time. *Pressure DC/WB not creators*


I didn't know DC as a monolith has been writing and drawing comics all this time and not individual creators that unconsciously bring in their own biases into their work that has resulted in the continued whitewashing of Damian that can only be counteracted by a concerted and purposeful by creators to color him correctly. Creators whitewash Damian, not because they fear for their jobs, but because they don't know he's been whitewashed or what that even means. Without being informed and educated by fans, how are they supposed to know because certainly DC/WB ain't gonna do that.

----------


## Konja7

> Four out of the past five Robins have white skin, so why not let one of them be brown?


Damian could have brown skin.

However, the accusation of whitewashing tend to imply that the race of a character is changed to become white.

I wouldn't call whitewashing to Damian being drawn with white skin, since the character was created with that skin color. And Damian with white pale skin won't erase his mixed ethnicity.

----------


## dietrich

> Four out of the past five Robins have white skin, so why not let one of them be brown?
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't know DC as a monolith has been writing and drawing comics all this time and not individual creators that unconsciously bring in their own biases into their work that has resulted in the continued whitewashing of Damian that can only be counteracted by a concerted and purposeful by creators to color him correctly. Creators whitewash Damian, not because they fear for their jobs, but because they don't know he's been whitewashed or what that even means. Without being informed and educated by fans, how are they supposed to know because certainly DC/WB ain't gonna do that.



Dude are you serious?

Creators don't know what whitewashing means. I know the mean stereotype is that Americans are dumb but come on.

Stop harassing creators.
Enough with the excuses.
Pressure those that have the power to mandate that Damian be brown.

Jeez you guys are so callous. One black guy has lost his job because of this and yet you guys won't listen.

Writers and artistic know what white washing means. They are not stupid especially in todays political climate.
Stop Harassing creators.

----------


## Fergus

Damian has a reputation for having the worst fans. Today I believeit

@Garrazza how you can advocate for fans to harass creators even when you yourself said that The old TT artist lost his job over it,

That Gleb tried to make Damian Brown but failed.

Someone fired meyers, someone said no to Gleb. That person is the one that decides of Damian should be brown.

You comment that artists in America don't know what whitewashing is clearly a lie to support your pov that harassment is good.

You yourself admitted just now 2 artists who wanted to avoid whitewashing Damian. Why would you assume the others don't?
Can you show me any evidence to support this assumption? especially when you make proof of the opposite?

My kids are mixed race. I would like them to be represented more but I don't think harassing people who don't have the power to change things is the way to go

----------


## Aahz

> Then writers should just refrain from writing racist stereotypes. Don't write a character that's part middle eastern as a suicide bomber [WTF]. it's not hard. Glass went out of his way to be deliberately racist writing Damian out of character to support his racist portrayal.


In his first appearance Damian beheaded a villain, he has iirc kidnapped several other heros (his first Teen Titans team and Jon Kent iirc) and has run an illeagal prison, the the Bomb Vest doesn't seem that out of character to me.

----------


## Fergus

People please don't harass writers and artists. They don't own the intellectual property that is Damian Wayne Robin. Writers and Artists have to have certain changes approved by higher ups.

Priest has mentioned this, Glass and Williamson also touched on this. Gleb was denied by TPTB and Jonboy was fired for attempting to to give us a brown Damian. Clearly the people who decide how Damian  is portrayed are behind the scenes

----------


## Fergus

> In his first appearance Damian beheaded a villain, he has iirc kidnapped several other heros (his first Teen Titans team and Jon Kent iirc) and has run an illeagal prison, the the Bomb Vest doesn't seem that out of character to me.


Those are not the same thing at all. the bomb vest is out of character, promoted a negative stereotype and was racist as heck. There is a reason why people took offence to the suicide bomber and why it's always picked as a very OCC moment for Damian. *Because it was an OCC moment*

----------


## marhawkman

> Then writers should just refrain from writing racist stereotypes. Don't write a character that's part middle eastern as a suicide bomber [WTF]. it's not hard. Glass went out of his way to be deliberately racist writing Damian out of character to support his racist portrayal. 
> 
> It's a shame. Visibly ethnic minorities are lacking in comics. people go on about Miles and Kamala. Robin is the most iconic sidekick in the world.
> 
> DC has had a Middle Eastern/Asian/Jewish Robin for Decades now and they did nothing with that. Sorry they turned him into a suicide bomber and attempted to replace him with a rich white kid from the suburbs.
> 
> Clearly all those that have ben pressuring Creators have been wasting their time. Pressure DC/WB not creators


I don't think it's so much about "don't use racist stereotypes".  Why? because there's stereotypes for EVERYTHING.  Some of them aren't based on reality, but most are based on something in real life.  The problem is how they get used, and less about what they are.  

The question isn't if someone took offense.  It's like Aesop said, "You can't please everyone."  The mere fact that Ra'is Al'ghul is Arabic and a "terrorist" is considered an offensive stereotype by some.  It's one of those things where at some point you have to question WHY people are complaining.   The idea that you can't have Arabic villains is absurd.  But villains are defined by negative characteristics, and thus some "stereotype" based on those negative traits will apply.  

So why do people complain?  Well, because they dislike the way it was written.  Ultimately it's about wanting to dictate whether a character(often by proxy based on group identification) is portrayed positively or negatively.  Is there a GOOD reason for complaints? well people claim there is, but it's hard to say if those claims are correct without investigating each one.



> Those are not the same thing at all. the bomb vest is out of character, promoted a negative stereotype and was racist as heck. There is a reason why people took offence to the suicide bomber and why it's always picked as a very OCC moment for Damian. *Because it was an OCC moment*


Yeah this really hits the nail on the head.  It's not solely about if it's "racist" but about whether it was just DUMB.  Does it make sense from an in-universe perspective?  This one had multiple problems, the biggest being that it was a stupid idea for both an in out of universe reasons.

----------


## garazza

> Damian has a reputation for having the worst fans. Today I believeit
> 
> @Garrazza how you can advocate for fans to harass creators even when you yourself said that The old TT artist lost his job over it,
> 
> That Gleb tried to make Damian Brown but failed.
> 
> Someone fired meyers, someone said no to Gleb. That person is the one that decides of Damian should be brown.
> 
> You comment that artists in America don't know what whitewashing is clearly a lie to support your pov that harassment is good.
> ...


When did I advocate for harassing creators? Pointing out that putting Damian in a suicide vest isn't harassment, but pointing out that Damian should be colored brown is harassment? I don't get that.

Gleb successfully colored Damian correctly when he colored the first issue, but penciling, inking, and coloring a comic is a lot of work for one person, so the second issue was done by someone else and they colored Damian as white. I doubt the new colorist was directed by the higher ups to color him as white. The most likely answer is that, unlike Gleb, the new colorist is unaware of the implicit bias to color characters not explicitly stated otherwise as white. Pointing out to them that it would be great if they could continue doing what Gleb was doing is not harassment. What would be harassment is if they were accused of being racist for coloring him white and not brown and bombarding their social media with those false accusations until they were forced to leave.

As an American, I can say that a lot people here don't know what whitewashing is. Just because we know what it is doesn't mean everyone else does. For a lot people, racism is seen as being mean to people of color and not a complex system of oppression that permeates all facets of life. Do you think all creators are aware of the intricacies of racism manifests itself in art and pop culture, such as whitewashing? Some are, and some aren't. Some may know a little bit, some may know a lot, and some may not be aware at all about how it manifests. Being proactive in spreading awareness of how little acts like how a character's skin is colored or how they act or how they are treated is important and should not be diminished.

Glass wasn't fired for his little stunt, but Meyers was fired for being respectful and proactive. That is racism, but not the only way that racism is present in comics.




> People please don't harass writers and artists. They don't own the intellectual property that is Damian Wayne Robin. Writers and Artists have to have certain changes approved by higher ups.
> 
> *Priest has mentioned this, Glass and Williamson also touched on this. Gleb was denied by TPTB and Jonboy was fired for attempting to to give us a brown Damian. Clearly the people who decide how Damian  is portrayed are behind the scenes*


The fact that there are those on the inside that are trying to be a positive force for change but are thwarted by a racist company shows that we should be supporting those individuals while also trying to convert others that would potentially be sympathetic to that cause. WB/DC can be changed from within just as much as it can from without. If there is enough internal support within a company, the company can’t fire all of them, but right now the number small, so it’s risky, but that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be attempted at all. Meyers being retaliated against should not be a sign to give up and stop trying to inform creators. It should be a reminder this is going to be a long and hard process with no easy answers or solutions, but trying something is better than not trying at all.

But apparently I’m in the minority here and I’m not capable of giving thorough and thoughtful explanations for why and how racism in comics should be addressed, so I’ll stop here.

----------


## Astralabius

> In his first appearance Damian beheaded a villain, he has iirc kidnapped several other heros (his first Teen Titans team and Jon Kent iirc) and has run an illeagal prison, the the Bomb Vest doesn't seem that out of character to me.


Damian went through a lot of character developement since his first appearance and most of the other stuff you mentioned is from the pretty unpopular Rebirth Teen Titans book. Damian fans didn't like Percy's run either from all I can tell, the Glass run was just worse and that's why people stopped complaining about the Percy run. I don't think there are a lot of people out there who like Damian because of anything you listed.

It's also not just the fact that Damian used a bomb vest that's the problem, it's that in one of the first issues of the run Glass goes out of his way to make sure the reader knows that Damian is not white, didn't grow up in america and doesn't feel like he belongs in Gotham. All interesting things to talk about, if it wasn't followed by writing Damian in a pretty villainous way in the very same issue and everything that followed.
Glass linked Damian being non-white and non-american to him turning evil. That was deliberate, not an accident, the same way it was deliberate that Damian suddenly had a bomb vest in his fight with Jason, which didn't even had a story purpose, the bomb vest really didn't need to be in there.

You can't act like the decision to give Damian bomb vest had nothing to do with Damian's ethnicity or cultural identity, especially not when the writer wanted us to know that Damian was middle-eastern and highlighted Damian's "otherness" in a book whose goal was to make him a villain.

----------


## Aahz

> You can't act like the decision to give Damian bomb vest had nothing to do with Damian's ethnicity or cultural identity,


The thing is that Damian's cultural identity isn't really middle eastern, he grew up on remote island, was trained by a lot of different teachers that came from all over the world (the LoA is in general kind cultural all over the place), and he is not a muslim.

To me highlighting Damian as middle-eastern was more out of character than the bomb vest.

And in general if you want to avoid middle-eastern terrorist stereotypes, having a character who was raised by terrorist organization like the League of Assassins is just not a really good place to start with.
That's why in my opinion Damian is not exactly the best character if you want to push for "middle eastern representation".

----------


## Light of Justice

> In his first appearance Damian beheaded a villain, he has iirc kidnapped several other heros (his first Teen Titans team and Jon Kent iirc) and has run an illeagal prison, the the Bomb Vest doesn't seem that out of character to me.


I don't really care about his color skin, but boy the Bomb Vest fiasco is OOC as hell. Damian is a proud person, overwhelmingly so. Bomb Vest fiasco is basically him challenged Jason, got horribly beaten up, then pulled a suicide threat move and threaten to bring Jason in it, which turned out to be fake. It's pathetic as hell, only second to the time when Damian got captured by Killer Croc and shouted "Mommy!"

----------


## Fergus

> When did I advocate for harassing creators? Pointing out that putting Damian in a suicide vest isn't harassment, but pointing out that Damian should be colored brown is harassment? I don't get that.
> 
> Gleb successfully colored Damian correctly when he colored the first issue, but penciling, inking, and coloring a comic is a lot of work for one person, so the second issue was done by someone else and they colored Damian as white. I doubt the new colorist was directed by the higher ups to color him as white. The most likely answer is that, unlike Gleb, the new colorist is unaware of the implicit bias to color characters not explicitly stated otherwise as white. Pointing out to them that it would be great if they could continue doing what Gleb was doing is not harassment. What would be harassment is if they were accused of being racist for coloring him white and not brown and bombarding their social media with those false accusations until they were forced to leave.
> 
> As an American, I can say that a lot people here don't know what whitewashing is. Just because we know what it is doesn't mean everyone else does. For a lot people, racism is seen as being mean to people of color and not a complex system of oppression that permeates all facets of life. Do you think all creators are aware of the intricacies of racism manifests itself in art and pop culture, such as whitewashing? Some are, and some aren't. Some may know a little bit, some may know a lot, and some may not be aware at all about how it manifests. Being proactive in spreading awareness of how little acts like how a character's skin is colored or how they act or how they are treated is important and should not be diminished.
> 
> Glass wasn't fired for his little stunt, but Meyers was fired for being respectful and proactive. That is racism, but not the only way that racism is present in comics.
> 
> 
> ...




Don't do this. Everyone's voice is welcome here.

Over coming racism is something we all have to unite against, It's also something that's tricky to combat like you said.

I'm just wary of fans hounding creators.

----------


## Blue22

> I don't really care about his color skin, but boy the Bomb Vest fiasco is OOC as hell. Damian is a proud person, overwhelmingly so. Bomb Vest fiasco is basically him challenged Jason, got horribly beaten up, then pulled a suicide threat move and threaten to bring Jason in it, which turned out to be fake. It's pathetic as hell, only second to the time when Damian got captured by Killer Croc and shouted "Mommy!"


Yeah, Damian being biracial is one of the reasons I've never really cared that much about his skin tone or that brief period where artists couldn't decide if his eyes were green or blue (I actually kinda wish they kept the blue eyes. It would have really stood out with his tan skin). Besides, not every person of Middle Eastern descent is dark skinned.

That said, the suicide vest did bother the hell out of me, in a Titans run that was already bothering the hell out of me. Aside from it just being a REALLY bad look, having the Middle Eastern kid strap a bomb to his chest (regardless of whether or not Glass intended for it to come off that way), it made Damian look like a bitch. My son ain't no bitch lol 

Every attempt Glass made at making Damian a badass just made him look like a discount Jason. Pre-Flashpoint Jason, anyway. A paranoid, unstable, emotionally weak child with zero sense of self awareness. Which, to be fair, were things that he was when he started out. But he grew past most of that a long time ago.

----------


## marhawkman

> The thing is that Damian's cultural identity isn't really middle eastern, he grew up on remote island, was trained by a lot of different teachers that came from all over the world (the LoA is in general kind cultural all over the place), and he is not a muslim.
> 
> To me highlighting Damian as middle-eastern was more out of character than the bomb vest.
> 
> And in general if you want to avoid middle-eastern terrorist stereotypes, having a character who was raised by terrorist organization like the League of Assassins is just not a really good place to start with.
> That's why in my opinion Damian is not exactly the best character if you want to push for "middle eastern representation".


Which is probably why DC didn't push the representation angle.  They don't push representation on Talia or Ra'is either.  Yeah.... like you said, culturally, the League of Shadows isn't really Middle Eastern.  So that angle doesn't make a lot of sense.

----------


## Frontier

What's the current status of Titus, Bat-Cow, and Goliath?

----------


## Restingvoice

> What's the current status of Titus, Bat-Cow, and Goliath?


I think it's mentioned in Robin #1 preview... yeah. Steph said they're all at a farm somewhere.

I imagine with no proof that it's the same farm in the Bat-cow story by Dan Didio a while back 

Now what would a Goliath pen looks like...

----------


## garazza

Robin (2021-) 001-003.jpg

This is actually my favorite panel from the entire first issue. Williamson addressed why Damian's pets aren't around with one line and that's all you need. That's very competent of him.

----------


## marhawkman

> Yeah, Damian being biracial is one of the reasons I've never really cared that much about his skin tone or that brief period where artists couldn't decide if his eyes were green or blue (I actually kinda wish they kept the blue eyes. It would have really stood out with his tan skin). Besides, not every person of Middle Eastern descent is dark skinned.


Just look at Talia.  It doesn't make sense for Damian to have darker skin than his mother.  Darker skin than his father? Sure.  But not his mother.  Which doesn't make him all that dark.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

scan49.jpg

About Damian long hair talked before, I made some tests, not went so well as I wanted but I liked the last one enough ^^

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Just look at Talia.  It doesn't make sense for Damian to have darker skin than his mother.  Darker skin than his father? Sure.  But not his mother.  Which doesn't make him all that dark.


Ah, but Talia skin tone also change, so based on her skin is also hard to say how would be Damian's skin

(Again, I know could be anything between them, but Bruce's skin color is the same, but Talia's changes so much...)

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Robin (2021-) 001-003.jpg
> 
> This is actually my favorite panel from the entire first issue. Williamson addressed why Damian's pets aren't around with one line and that's all you need. That's very competent of him.


I knowwww isn't it the purest thing ever? TuT

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Which is probably why DC didn't push the representation angle.  They don't push representation on Talia or Ra'is either.  Yeah.... like you said, culturally, the League of Shadows isn't really Middle Eastern.  So that angle doesn't make a lot of sense.


Agree, but I personally like when then use Middle Easteen elements as clothes and food, it's just nice, but Comics are kind lame with this things, you know? It's not when you listen things like "did you know they traveled 6 months for know more About this culture and had 2 professors for consultation about the script???" Nop, comics are like a big mix of some culture that try to not be a big stereotype and sometimes don't do this very well.

----------


## Shen

> Attachment 110287
> 
> About Damian long hair talked before, I made some tests, not went so well as I wanted but I liked the last one enough ^^


Heyy, that's pretty good  :Big Grin:

----------


## Shen

> Ah, but Talia skin tone also change, so based on her skin is also hard to say how would be Damian's skin
> 
> (Again, I know could be anything between them, but Bruce's skin color is the same, but Talia's changes so much...)


Goddamn, she's finer than a tea-set from China.

I'd say he should be at least a _tad_ darker than Bruce (Like Ghostmaker's skintone would be my preference for him) 



Also, I just love that the younger version of Bruce being shown in the comics looks just like an older version of Damian would - barring the Blue Eyes and pale skin. Even the pissed-off scowl is present.



Definitely hereditary XD

----------


## marhawkman

> Agree, but I personally like when then use Middle Easteen elements as clothes and food, it's just nice, but Comics are kind lame with this things, you know? It's not when you listen things like "did you know they traveled 6 months for know more About this culture and had 2 professors for consultation about the script???" Nop, comics are like a big mix of some culture that try to not be a big stereotype and sometimes don't do this very well.


Yeah, there's only so much you can do when it comes to accuracy and realism.  More so when using plot elements that don't start with reality.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

More about Dick, much the Damian expression detail is adorable (=u=)/

----------


## Rebeca Armus

About Damian being a mini Bruce in appearance, the movie design of kid Damian and kid Bruce made me sick, This is lame and ... kind weird '=__= they need more people in character design? Imagine if all super heroes with kids have a past scene and they are exactly as them child... weird in a high production as an DC movie.

----------


## dietrich

> About Damian being a mini Bruce in appearance, the movie design of kid Damian and kid Bruce made me sick, This is lame and ... kind weird '=__= they need more people in character design? Imagine if all super heroes with kids have a past scene and they are exactly as them child... weird in a high production as an DC movie.


Not all superheroes have kids who were genetically tinkered with to be just like them.

The whole point of Damian is that Talia when she failed to get Bruce made her own mini version.

Damian being identical to Bruce is one of the biggest elements to his character. Talia didn't do a Jolie.
 She didn't have Damian because she wanted a kid. She had Damian because she wanted a bruce wayne.

She went out of her way to make a her own mini Bruce in that whale belly

Damian looking like Bruce isn't lazy animation.
it's comics accurate and a frequently recurring plot point. Did you forget?

----------


## Eckri

Anyone here read up on the latest Batman Urban legends issue. 

Concerning the title Robin, it appears Tim Drake is holding the title until Damian returns to Gotham. 

So after the whole tournament arc he goes back to being officially Robin, or maybe we'll just have two robins running around. Just guessing, what your guys' thoughts?

----------


## dietrich

> Anyone here read up on the latest Batman Urban legends issue. 
> 
> Concerning the title Robin, it appears Tim Drake is holding the title until Damian returns to Gotham. 
> 
> So after the whole tournament arc he goes back to being officially Robin, or maybe we'll just have two robins running around. Just guessing, what your guys' thoughts?


I feel that whatever plans were made to take Robin from Damian didn't work so Dc's walked it back pretty quick.

Tim wasn't ever going to go back to Robin while Damian graduated. WB wasn't ever going to be okay with replacing a popular better known Robin with a less well known and not as popular one. 

that's Dc's MO. They did that with Tim and Damian [though that was a temp move that ended up changing things forever]

They did it with Damian and Duke and they tried it again with Damian and Tim.

DC already told us that Damian was retaining the Robin mantle in the back ups.
The fact that Damian is heading a Robin solo well into next year says that he's not changing hero names. I just hope that DC can find something better for Tim than Damian stand-in.

Unlike Batgirls multiple Robins don't work.

Tim says he's filling for Damian. Filling in for Damian doing what?
He isn't Bruce's partner,  He isn't filling in for Damian on TT or Supersons. Filling in for Damian only works IF we see him doing what damian should be doing [like with Jarro who was working with bruce]

I hope writers are thinking hard for a new name for Tim. fill-in Robin doing things off panel is a copout

----------


## CPSparkles

I don't think Tim is going to stay Robin. There's already a Robin named Wayne

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Not all superheroes have kids who were genetically tinkered with to be just like them.
> 
> The whole point of Damian is that Talia when she failed to get Bruce made her own mini version.
> 
> Damian being identical to Bruce is one of the biggest elements to his character. Talia didn't do a Jolie.
>  She didn't have Damian because she wanted a kid. She had Damian because she wanted a bruce wayne.
> 
> She went out of her way to make a her own mini Bruce in that whale belly
> 
> ...


Hummm... This does make sense and I didn't have this idea so strong in my mind, but couldn't they change at least the hair style? Just for the character don't be exactly the same model sheet with another eyes color?

----------


## CPSparkles

> Hummm... This does make sense and I didn't have this idea so strong in my mind, but couldn't they change at least the hair style? Just for the character don't be exactly the same model sheet with another eyes color?


They could have made Damian a darker green eyed version of Bruce or simply darker.

Bypass some of the Unfortunate pro-Eugenics elements of Damian.

----------


## Shen

> Hummm... This does make sense and I didn't have this idea so strong in my mind, but couldn't they change at least the hair style? Just for the character don't be exactly the same model sheet with another eyes color?


I think it was done very internationally, because even Alfred notes that the resemblance between Damian and Kid Bruce is frightening. It kind of had to happen that way. After all, nothing says 'SON OF BATMAN' like an almost perfect 10-year old clone of Bruce. 

There's even a few comics where they're in the same panel and the only physical difference in their faces is their age (and skin tone, eye color etc). It really sucks, but being the son of Bruce Wayne will always be one of Damian's defining traits - like it or not. 
Kind of like how Naruto was always compared to the 4th Hokage/his dad.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Long haired Damian with Alfred The Cat
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Talia and Damian
> ...


These are so beautiful.
 I like Long haired Damian.
 He's pretty like Talia

----------


## Shen

> They could have made Damian a darker green eyed version of Bruce or simply darker.
> 
> Bypass some of the Unfortunate pro-Eugenics elements of Damian.


Initially in SOB he was, Later on his skin tone changed. I did always like his eyes being Lazarus Green tho.

----------


## Arctic Cyclist

> Not all superheroes have kids who were genetically tinkered with to be just like them.
> 
> The whole point of Damian is that Talia when she failed to get Bruce made her own mini version.
> 
> Damian being identical to Bruce is one of the biggest elements to his character. Talia didn't do a Jolie.
>  She didn't have Damian because she wanted a kid. She had Damian because she wanted a bruce wayne.
> 
> She went out of her way to make a her own mini Bruce in that whale belly
> 
> ...


Yes, they did. Like you, their versions of Damian and Talia are strictly from the animated movies overseen by Geoff "I'm nOT RACIST" Johns. Comics Talia from before Johns, Didio, and Simone was a complicated character who did want children and would have been a great mother if it weren't for a pesky past that wouldn't let her go.

Remember, both Tallant and Ibn turned out well. Both of them either never met Bruce or didn't met him until adulthood yet were capable of being moral, and this is a big thing as none of the Bats particularly Bruce are, ethical beings.

If you read comics, including Breach (I apologize for suggesting that, but Talia, Luthor, and the Senator are interesting even if the rest is crap), the LexCorp years in Action Comics, Superman, Man of Steel, and Superboy, Gotham Nights, Our Worlds at War, and Hush (again I apologize as it's a very mediocre storyline that is nothing like the animated movie, but superior to the movie even with its weaknesses), you get a woman who is doing the best she can in a world that doesn't like brown women.

She even provides sandwiches to hungry teenagers without prompting. Cuddles babies. Gets sarcastic with Superman. Snubs Bruce...a lot as this was during the period where she was completely same and decided that he was toxic and while she will always love him she needed to avoid him and move on. 

That last part is why she has been treated so poorly: a female character getting over a male character?! In DC?! A bat character no less?! One she was created to obsess over?!

NOOOOOO!!!! 

Obviously she must become an obsessive, manipulative villainess...but only if she's not white.

----------


## Blue22

> I don't think Tim is going to stay Robin. There's already a Robin named Wayne


There's been a Robin named Wayne since, what? 2009? And Tim still can't let the Robin name go XD

----------


## the1&onlyE.

May I interrupt for a second and say...

https://subscriptions.dccomics.com/ipd/1421

... Deathstroke and Robin will definitely cross.

----------


## Blue22

God no. Slade needs to stay as far away from children as humanly possible. Starting with his own, but definitely Damian and the Titans too XD

Squickiness of his past actions aside, how can this dude still be considered such a badass when he's most well known for being the villain who's always thwarted by teenagers? On the bright side, the premise of that book does sound...pretty okay. Though I'm not seeing a big difference between it and Suicide Squad, aside from the fact that he's working alone.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I think it was done very internationally, because even Alfred notes that the resemblance between Damian and Kid Bruce is frightening. It kind of had to happen that way. After all, nothing says 'SON OF BATMAN' like an almost perfect 10-year old clone of Bruce. 
> 
> There's even a few comics where they're in the same panel and the only physical difference in their faces is their age (and skin tone, eye color etc). It really sucks, but being the son of Bruce Wayne will always be one of Damian's defining traits - like it or not. 
> Kind of like how Naruto was always compared to the 4th Hokage/his dad.


I think if they keep Bruce and Damian with the same eyebrows and face proportion they would keep the same "resemblance" even changing another things like hair style.
Maybe I care more about this type of thing u.u, but I see your side too, it's easy for got the idea and don't disturb the story being good ^^

......... but they could 've change hair style........ Naruto, Boruto and Minato look really a lot but don't have this clone feeling... humm... When I see Goten of Dragon Ball Z I really think his appearance weird XD even when I was a lil kid I didn't get how he and Goku could look so much with each other.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> God no. Slade needs to stay as far away from children as humanly possible. Starting with his own, but definitely Damian and the Titans too XD
> 
> Squickiness of his past actions aside, how can this dude still be considered such a badass when he's most well known for the being the villain who's always thwarted by teenagers? On the bright side, the premise of that book does sound...pretty okay. Though I'm not seeing a big difference between it and Suicide Squad, aside from the fact that he's working alone.


Honestly, it will probably be more about Respawn, who I'm very curious about, and Rose. I also think the ideia of the book seems interesting, but yeah, it's definitely funny how Slade is this big ass villain, but at the same time is always defeated by teenagers lol.

----------


## Drako

> Honestly, it will probably be more about Respawn, who I'm very curious about, and Rose. I also think the ideia of the book seems interesting, but yeah, it's definitely funny how Slade is this big ass villain, but at the same time is always defeated by teenagers lol.


He is the Valdemort of comics.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> May I interrupt for a second and say...
> 
> https://subscriptions.dccomics.com/ipd/1421
> 
> ... Deathstroke and Robin will definitely cross.


The image is not being showed up for me >< are they together??

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> He is the Valdemort of comics.


Gcktckttvkgvjfvkffvkf Z OMG LOL!

----------


## Arsenal

> He is the Valdemort of comics.


Really? I always saw Trigon as a better fit.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Waaaaiiit did someone saw about this title called "Robin and Batman"??

----------


## Digifiend

> The image is not being showed up for me >< are they together??


The image isn't showing up because that page isn't meant to be publicly viewable yet.

----------


## Drako

> Really? I always saw Trigon as a better fit.


I was alluding to a very dangerous villain that gets beat by teenagers, but Trigon also fits the mold.

----------


## Arsenal

> I was alluding to a very dangerous villain that gets beat by teenagers, but Trigon also fits the mold.


I get what you were alluding to, it’s just that Deathstroke at least has a life beyond getting beat up by teenagers. Trigon’s existence is solely defined by getting whooped by a bunch of kids time and time again.

----------


## HsssH

Deathstroke does better against JL than against Titans.

----------


## Konja7

> Waaaaiiit did someone saw about this title called "Robin and Batman"??


I read that this will be a future comic, but we still don't know when it will be released.

We don't know who will be the Robin either.

----------


## marhawkman

> Deathstroke does better against JL than against Titans.


This is true actually.... which is weird....

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> The image isn't showing up because that page isn't meant to be publicly viewable yet.


gossip told in half... =_=

----------


## Shen

I just re-read the Teen Titans Special #1 and I'm annoyed all over again at DC. 

Reading the first issue lets you know exactly where this trinity stands, and as much he goes full homicidal later on, I perfectly understand why Damian feels the way he does and can't help but to agree with him. Heck, I actually like the idea of the prison right now (not the mindwipes though, that's just asking for trouble).

This story had soo much potential - but all I remember from it is a bungled mess of plotlines and a central character's descent into pseudo-villainy while everyone else just stood by unknowingly (minus Emiko - she stalled Damian a little in that regard when she killed Slade, but still). 

I know everything was rushed, but it could've been soo much better if they gave the story some time to breath. No matter how I look at it, it just seems like an entire run dedicated to breaking down Damian, with a few sprinkles of side-character development and storylines as well.

Some things just don't make sense at all.

----------


## CPSparkles

> I just re-read the Teen Titans Special #1 and I'm annoyed all over again at DC. 
> 
> This story had soo much potential - but all I remember from it is a bungled mess of plotlines and a central character's descent into pseudo-villainy while everyone else just stood by unknowingly (minus Emiko - she stalled Damian a little in that regard when she killed Slade, but still). 
> 
> I know everything was rushed, but it could've been soo much better if they gave the story some time to breath. No matter how I look at it, *it just seems like an entire run dedicated to breaking down Damian* , with a few sprinkles of side-character development and storylines as well.
> 
> Some things just don't make sense at all.


That was exactly what Glass was told to do when he got the title. In his words, "the decision had been made that Damian should lose the Robin mantle. He was directed to write Damian's fall, leading to him losing Robin.

----------


## Shen

> That was exactly what Glass was told to do when he got the title. In his words, "the decision had been made that Damian should lose the Robin mantle. He was directed to write Damian's fall, leading to him losing Robin.


That's why I'm not angry with him, a little annoyed but nothing like I was before. I (like many others) directed my anger at him each month as Damian started falling further and further - until I re-evaluated things and my perspective changed. 

Wasn't it Glass that said he believed Damian would become the best Batman?

IMG_20210611_070037.jpg

Damian is soo extra XD

----------


## CPSparkles

> That's why I'm not angry with him, a little annoyed but nothing like I was before. I (like many others) directed my anger at him each month as Damian started falling further and further - until I re-evaluated things and my perspective changed. 
> 
> Wasn't it Glass that said he believed Damian would become the best Batman?
> 
> IMG_20210611_070037.jpg
> 
> Damian is soo extra XD


I wasn't aware Glass said that. Don't think I've heard any writers views on how Damian as Batman would fare. The closest is Snyder saying that Damian is Batman perfected [which was a back handed dig since he followed it up, " He's Batman without the empathy"]

Glass was only doing his job. I agree but I doubt DC asked him to embrace Damian's middle Eastern roots and then strap bombs to him.

I doubt DC had him have Alfred say that Damian was acting like Ra's not a Wayne by having an illegal jail. A ridiculous lie since that is very much Bruce Wayne's playbook not Ra's.

So I have issues with Glass. He also did a poor job of letting us know Damian's motivations and he dropped a bunch of plot threads. What was the point of Jason?

What was in the box?
What was the extent of Jason's involvement?
Don't get me started on the whole suddenly everything is on Damian and the team was forced

----------


## Blue22

Meanwhile, I'm still trying to figure out why it was necessary to retcon Damian's reason for going off the deep end in the first place. It had nothing to do with Alfred but now all of a sudden they're acting like his death was the start of all the bullshit. I actually liked his original reason for forming the Terror Titans. Much like Wallace's reason, it made A LOT of sense (if I ever compliment Wallace again, slap me). But, much like a lot of Damian's actions in that run, it was promptly swept under the rug in favor of the incredibly basic "I'm acting out cuz grandpa died."

Glass' Titans had a strong start. But I saw where it was going from a mile away. The premise alone was enough to make me roll my eyes, and think "they're about to massacre the fuck out of my boy". Which is a shame because it wasn't all bad. We got two really interesting characters out of it (Crush and Djinn), even if they both ended up kinda sucking towards the end. And it actually made me start seeing Emiko and Wallace in a slightly more positive light than I did before (I still hate Wallace....just not as much). But I still can't look back at this run and not see it as anything more than a character assassination of my favorite Robin, and a bastardization of my favorite DC team.

So naturally this steaming pile of a run would end with Dick Grayson, of all people, being the one to throw one last bit of shade at Damian.

----------


## Shen

> Meanwhile, I'm still trying to figure out why it was necessary to retcon Damian's reason for going off the deep end in the first place. It had nothing to do with Alfred but now all of a sudden they're acting like his death was the start of all the bullshit. I actually liked his original reason for forming the Terror Titans. Much like Wallace's reason, it made A LOT of sense (*if I ever compliment Wallace again, slap me*). But, much like a lot of Damian's actions in that run, it was promptly swept under the rug in favor of the incredibly basic "I'm acting out cuz grandpa died."
> 
> Glass' Titans had a strong start. But I saw where it was going from a mile away. The premise alone was enough to make me roll my eyes, and think "they're about to massacre the fuck out of my boy". Which is a shame because it wasn't all bad. We got two really interesting characters out of it (Crush and Djinn), even if they both ended up kinda sucking towards the end. And it actually made me start seeing Emiko and Wallace in a slightly more positive light than I did before (I still hate Wallace....just not as much). But I still can't look back at this run and not see it as anything more than a character assassination of my favorite Robin, and a bastardization of my favorite DC team.
> 
> So naturally this steaming pile of a run would end with Dick Grayson, of all people, being the one to throw one last bit of shade at Damian.


Noted, and I will comply in doing that. (I know it shouldn't be funny - but when Harley Quinn called Wallace 'Politically Correct Flash' in the Special, I couldn't help laughing. Especially after the recent Superman controversy.)

I also really liked his original motivation for this crusade. He himself says he might view things differently after watching a World die in No Justice, and Black Mask was just the Catalyst.

As I said, I'm re-reading it and so far it's better than I'd remembered. I'm at the point where they're after Lady Vic, and Damian's trying to teach Crush how to be a team player (seriously, DAMIAN of all people) and it's actually good character growth. 

Emiko is more annoying than I remember her being and I _actually_ like Djinn at this point. She's the narrator and her story is actually pretty cool. Roundhouse is pretty intelligent, and is slightly endearing once you get past his need for attention. I think if they made him and Damian bond a little more, his betrayal wouldve hit a little harder. 

Crush always reminded me of Superboy from the Young Justice Animated series, and I think she's got a lot of potential. I'm just trying to find the starting point for where it all went Belly-up. It's kinda starting now with Emiko going off on Djinn during the mission because Damian just jumped on that grenade a little while ago.

----------


## Blue22

> Crush always reminded me of Superboy from the Young Justice Animated series, and I think she's got a lot of potential. I'm just trying to find the starting point for where it all went Belly-up. It's kinda starting now with Emiko going off on Djinn during the mission because Damian just jumped on that grenade a little while ago.


Red Hood is where things start to get stupid and Deathstroke is where the run straight up becomes unsalvageable. That's when they double down on the Damian hate and just...never stop.

----------


## Shen

> Red Hood is where things start to get stupid and Deathstroke is where the run straight up becomes unsalvageable. That's when they double down on the Damian hate and just...never stop.


The issue where they're trapped underground is where Damian starts acting weirder than usual. This is about 2 issues after he first used Djinn's ring. He straight-up almost pulls a Finn(Reeeeeeyyyyyyy!!!!!) looking for her XD

Aaand now I remember why I dislike Crush. Damian and Djinn are having their spat and she's getting jealous on the sidelines. Then she manhandles the kid the first chance she gets. 

I understand that tensions are high after everything is revealed but she just lashes out, because at this point - she's just a very angry chick who uses this chance to hurt the guy stealing her girl. 

Props to Wallace for kicking her ass around a little bit. This team's chemistry just went boom.

RCO016_1568793618.jpg

And Djinn just shed that innocent princess act quite quickly when her ring got stolen. Yes, yes. Ring is very important - end of worlds type important. Not an excuse for being such a meanie (unless, these are her_ True Colors_). Quite the hypocrite, going off on both Crush and then Damian. This is where my dislike of her began.

You're right, Red Hood is where it started to nosedive. 
I'm stopping at the point Roundhouse has them captured and tells em why he stole the ring. 
I can't read this any further - the death of Roundhouses sister isn't supposed to be blamed on one person but it's just added to the growing pile of Damian's mistakes. 
Billy convinced his sister to take the shortcut and Damian decided to blow up Scarecrow's building - but guess who the average reader would blame when reading this in context after all the crap he's done. And then he has the gall to tell Billy he'll forgive him. 

I get that they wanted to take Robin away from him, but you've just got to admire how well writers shed light on all Damian's wrongdoings while hiding everyone else's in the background. Solid work. 10/10. 

Even Lady Shiva couldn't have pulled off an Assassination like this.

----------


## dietrich

> *Meanwhile, I'm still trying to figure out why it was necessary to retcon Damian's reason for going off the deep end in the first place.* It had nothing to do with Alfred but now all of a sudden they're acting like his death was the start of all the bullshit. I actually liked his original reason for forming the Terror Titans. Much like Wallace's reason, it made A LOT of sense (if I ever compliment Wallace again, slap me). But, much like a lot of Damian's actions in that run, it was promptly swept under the rug in favor of the incredibly basic "I'm acting out cuz grandpa died."
> 
> Glass' Titans had a strong start. But I saw where it was going from a mile away. The premise alone was enough to make me roll my eyes, and think "they're about to massacre the fuck out of my boy". Which is a shame because it wasn't all bad. We got two really interesting characters out of it (Crush and Djinn), even if they both ended up kinda sucking towards the end. And it actually made me start seeing Emiko and Wallace in a slightly more positive light than I did before (I still hate Wallace....just not as much). But I still can't look back at this run and not see it as anything more than a character assassination of my favorite Robin, and a bastardization of my favorite DC team.
> 
> So naturally this steaming pile of a run would end with Dick Grayson, of all people, being the one to throw one last bit of shade at Damian.


Sadly we'll never know for certain why DC changed the reason behind Damian's heel turn but looking back and taking into account everything that was going on in other titles, DC, WB etc. It feels like some [new powerplayers] at DC made a decision re Robin which was later shutdown.

Blaming it on Alfred was Salvage and abate. Damian wasn't thinking clearly when he decided to di thing's his way. Hence why they changed it to trauma induced, thus giving him an out. An explanation for his less than heroic choices while still allowing him to be retain a hero mantle.

It also sidesteps the need to write his redemption

They rushed into damage control which is evident in titles like Nightwing where it's obvious Damian wasn't part of the story but was squeezed in.

The fact that Tim's return to Robin was off screen [we didn't get the conversation between him and Bruce. Something that should have been shown]

The fact that no one knew what Tim's code name was indicates that the writers themselves didn't know.

I know some speculate that Damian quitting Robin was due to 5G plans but I don't think that's true since Glass would have said so. That  explanation surely would have minimised the backlash so the fact that he didn't mention it leads me to believe that this wasn't the reason.

I also liked the OG reason since it was evolution for Damian's character. His 1st attempt at fighting crime his own way. Not Bruce 's or Dick's. Not trying to fix the world the Al Ghul way.

I liked a lot about the run. Damian reaching out to Jason showed maturity. He ditched his childish mindset that Jason was lesser / a failure because of his death.

He forgave RH

He handled Crush well
He took feedback from Percy's run and appointed Emi as his 2nd in command to handle the people part of the team since he sucks at interpersonal relationships.

He went back to hell to save Djinn showing just how far he'd go for a team mate. Plus it was a badass boss move.

There was a lot to like about that run and contrary to what some say it developed Damian's character further. People sometimes forget that growth isn't a straight line. People sometimes falter, lapse, err or deviate. Sometimes it's backwards when mistakes are made so I don't mind Damian stumbling or falling flat on his face. Heck I don't even mind so much if he still struggles with old habits. Change isn't easy and Damian shouldn't be/isn't perfect.

I also really liked that he put together a completely diverse team.

----------


## Fergus

Damian is in Batman vs. Bigby! A Wolf in Gotham, A fables 6 issues Black Label Series out in September by Willingham, Brian Level, Jay Leisten, and Lee Loughridge.

----------


## Blue22

Is...that supposed to be Damian? And....Robin Steph? The hell is this book?

----------


## Rebeca Armus

For me the worst relationship of Slade is with Bruce, Slade live in a way that is everything Bruce is against, but they have this "I respect you, man" relationship, errrrgghh no, disgusting >< He tried to kill 2 of Bruce's sons! 1 should be enough!

----------


## garazza

> Is...that supposed to be Damian? And....Robin Steph? The hell is this book?


Not canon.

----------


## Arsenal

> Is...that supposed to be Damian? And....Robin Steph? The hell is this book?


Can’t forget Robin Hood’s 1 & 2!

----------


## Shen

> I also liked the OG reason since it was evolution for Damian's character. His 1st attempt at fighting crime his own way. Not Bruce 's or Dick's. Not trying to fix the world the Al Ghul way.
> 
> I liked a lot about the run. Damian reaching out to Jason showed maturity. He ditched his childish mindset that Jason was lesser / a failure because of his death.
> 
> He forgave RH
> 
> He handled Crush well
> He took feedback from Percy's run and appointed Emi as his 2nd in command to handle the people part of the team since he sucks at interpersonal relationships.
> 
> ...


Same. Throughout all this, I perfectly understood why Damian acted and reacted the way he did. It wasn't pretty, but what he did _most_ times was consistent to his character. 

My only problem is exactly what you said - most people are unable to understand this as a character that's growing. He was portrayed as someone losing his mind and becoming more unstable toward the end. Despite all the good that he did, despite all he endured and adapted to - all they're going to see are his faults and mistakes. 

And they certainly pulled no punches, especially when Alfred compared him to Ra's when he was going after Jason. I mean, what did you expect? His team almost DIED and Jason was the only person beside Red Arrow who dealt with the information for the team. Damian's angry and betrayed, and Alfred's like nah - Jason's family he wouldn't do that. Family for Damian is a mother who orchestrated his death, a father with the emotional capacity of a rock, and siblings who he can't seem to understand after Ric appeared. But don't think about all that, coz FAMILY. God, might as well have been doing a Dominic Toretto impersonation.

Also, Isn't it Ironic that both Father and Son had the same idea to create Super Secret Prisons for criminals who keep destroying lives when they inevitably escape? 

I still don't understand how Damian convinced Djinn to mindwipe the Villains and give them new personalities, especially after he _broke her trust_ by imprisoning people the way she was imprisoned. And the team was apparently fine with it too. Damian's worst offense at that point was doing something his father did. His team (besides Emi) had no knowledge of it and was pissed off because of that, but they're all guilty of the mind-wipes.

----------


## Digifiend

> Is...that supposed to be Damian? And....Robin Steph? The hell is this book?


I don't think it is. Note that the hooded Robin is holding a staff. I think that's actually Tim, and the other male Robin is Dick.

----------


## dietrich

> Same. Throughout all this, I perfectly understood why Damian acted and reacted the way he did. It wasn't pretty, but what he did _most_ times was consistent to his character. 
> 
> My only problem is exactly what you said - most people are unable to understand this as a character that's growing. He was portrayed as someone losing his mind and becoming more unstable toward the end. Despite all the good that he did, despite all he endured and adapted to - all they're going to see are his faults and mistakes. 
> 
> And they certainly pulled no punches, especially when Alfred compared him to Ra's when he was going after Jason. I mean, what did you expect? His team almost DIED and Jason was the only person beside Red Arrow who dealt with the information for the team. Damian's angry and betrayed, and Alfred's like nah - Jason's family he wouldn't do that. Family for Damian is a mother who orchestrated his death, a father with the emotional capacity of a rock, and siblings who he can't seem to understand after Ric appeared. But don't think about all that, coz FAMILY. God, might as well have been doing a Dominic Toretto impersonation.
> 
> Also, Isn't it Ironic that both Father and Son had the same idea to create Super Secret Prisons for criminals who keep destroying lives when they inevitably escape? 
> 
> I still don't understand how Damian convinced Djinn to mindwipe the Villains and give them new personalities, especially after he _broke her trust_ by imprisoning people the way she was imprisoned. And the team was apparently fine with it too. Damian's worst offense at that point was doing something his father did. His team (besides Emi) had no knowledge of it and was pissed off because of that, but they're all guilty of the mind-wipes.



Alfred's a huge hypocrite. 
When he was giving his speech about jason did he forget that Bruce literally beat the shit out of Jason like a few week's before? Did he give Bruce the same talk?

Did he forget that he himself was taunting and mocking a crying Penguin in Bruce's private jail that same week?

Damian was doing what his father taught him. So the Ra's line was just a lie. BS.

The double standards never ceases to amaze me.

The whole team went along with the mind wiping. Damian didn't force them into anything. He didn't take advantage of any of them. Again BS.

----------


## dietrich

> Yes, they did. Like you, their versions of Damian and Talia are strictly from the animated movies overseen by Geoff "I'm nOT RACIST" Johns. Comics Talia from before Johns, Didio, and Simone was a complicated character who did want children and would have been a great mother if it weren't for a pesky past that wouldn't let her go.
> 
> Remember, both Tallant and Ibn turned out well. Both of them either never met Bruce or didn't met him until adulthood yet were capable of being moral, and this is a big thing as none of the Bats particularly Bruce are, ethical beings.
> 
> If you read comics, including Breach (I apologize for suggesting that, but Talia, Luthor, and the Senator are interesting even if the rest is crap), the LexCorp years in Action Comics, Superman, Man of Steel, and Superboy, Gotham Nights, Our Worlds at War, and Hush (again I apologize as it's a very mediocre storyline that is nothing like the animated movie, but superior to the movie even with its weaknesses), you get a woman who is doing the best she can in a world that doesn't like brown women.
> 
> She even provides sandwiches to hungry teenagers without prompting. Cuddles babies. Gets sarcastic with Superman. Snubs Bruce...a lot as this was during the period where she was completely same and decided that he was toxic and while she will always love him she needed to avoid him and move on. 
> 
> That last part is why she has been treated so poorly: a female character getting over a male character?! In DC?! A bat character no less?! One she was created to obsess over?!
> ...


The animated movie were based on Morrision's work hence the Rape and Heretic.
Not sure of Didio's and John's opinion on Talia but Morrison felt that Talia was out of Bruce's league. He felt that Bruce won't be stimulation for an ambitious and intelligent woman like Talia whose dreams and operations are on a global scale and grander. He said that it never made much sense to him why Talia would be into a guy like Bruce who was emotionally childish.

So he broke them up and made Bruce a means to an end for Talia. A tool.

----------


## dietrich

> Damian is in Batman vs. Bigby! A Wolf in Gotham, A fables 6 issues Black Label Series out in September by Willingham, Brian Level, Jay Leisten, and Lee Loughridge.


lol This reminds me of Neal Adams last Batman work. Batman/Ras Al Ghul. That book was bonkers.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> The animated movie were based on Morrision's work hence the Rape and Heretic.
> Not sure of Didio's and John's opinion on Talia but Morrison felt that Talia was out of Bruce's league. He felt that Bruce won't be stimulation for an ambitious and intelligent woman like Talia whose dreams and operations are on a global scale and grander. He said that it never made much sense to him why Talia would be into a guy like Bruce who was emotionally childish.
> 
> So he broke them up and made Bruce a means to an end for Talia. A tool.


But I think in the movie Talia said she loved Bruce, and I had the feeling she really did, of course, used him as a tool, but was also in love and heart broken for not being corresponded.
And about Bruce I feel like he will likes any sexy pretty woman that try something with him (but I didn't see all the movies), I still don't get the scene he is dreaming with he and 3 women in the bed.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

And I think Talia could likes Bruce because he has many amazing abilities, is strong, is pretty with a nice voice, cult without being boring and is good for her? Maybe she could feel like "he is just in the wrong side, but with a little change we could be great together"? So the second best choice was making Damian?

My opinion of what could be Talia's opinion.

----------


## Shen

God, I'm beating on a dead horse here, but just humor me once more.

It's always bothered me, so correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Djinn's brother Elias invade heaven and defeat Michael? And then the team shows up and their efforts managed to stop him. Because if that's how it went - there are soo many things that are wrong with that. 

Firstly, Michael is one of the most powerful beings in the DC _Multiverse_, he scales to around Lucifer Morningstar/Samael's level of power.

Secondly, I don't buy the idea of a random 4000+ year old evil genie surprising(Cosmic Awareness ffs) and defeating a (at least Spectre level) being almost as old as the DC Universe itself. (It's hinted that Elias is Lucifer, and they tried to convey that with the gambling and clubs, but that's probably hyperbole) 

Lastly, if Elias could defeat Michael (a nigh-omnipotent being) - how am I expected to believe that the Titans could defeat a guy like that?!

----------


## marhawkman

> And I think Talia could likes Bruce because he has many amazing abilities, is strong, is pretty with a nice voice, cult without being boring and is good for her? Maybe she could feel like "he is just in the wrong side, but with a little change we could be great together"? So the second best choice was making Damian?
> 
> My opinion of what could be Talia's opinion.


Yeah, Talia's not some lovestruck teenager.  She liked Bruce because she saw him as exceptional and really liked him for that.

----------


## Astralabius

> The animated movie were based on Morrision's work hence the Rape and Heretic.
> Not sure of Didio's and John's opinion on Talia but Morrison felt that Talia was out of Bruce's league. He felt that Bruce won't be stimulation for an ambitious and intelligent woman like Talia whose dreams and operations are on a global scale and grander. He said that it never made much sense to him why Talia would be into a guy like Bruce who was emotionally childish.
> 
> So he broke them up and made Bruce a means to an end for Talia. A tool.


Morrison confused Talia with Ra's. Talia always wanted freedom, she loved Bruce because he showed her that there was another way.
Wanting an heir, global ambitions, wanting to kill lots of people, all of this was Ra's. Not Talia.

----------


## HsssH

> God, I'm beating on a dead horse here, but just humor me once more.
> 
> It's always bothered me, so correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Djinn's brother Elias invade heaven and defeat Michael? And then the team shows up and their efforts managed to stop him. Because if that's how it went - there are soo many things that are wrong with that. 
> 
> Firstly, Michael is one of the most powerful beings in the DC _Multiverse_, he scales to around Lucifer Morningstar/Samael's level of power.
> 
> Secondly, I don't buy the idea of a random 4000+ year old evil genie surprising(Cosmic Awareness ffs) and defeating a (at least Spectre level) being almost as old as the DC Universe itself. (It's hinted that Elias is Lucifer, and they tried to convey that with the gambling and clubs, but that's probably hyperbole) 
> 
> Lastly, if Elias could defeat Michael (a nigh-omnipotent being) - how am I expected to believe that the Titans could defeat a guy like that?!


I think you put more thought into this than people who wrote that story.

----------


## dietrich

> And I think Talia could likes Bruce because he has many amazing abilities, is strong, is pretty with a nice voice, cult without being boring and is good for her? Maybe she could feel like "he is just in the wrong side, but with a little change we could be great together"? So the second best choice was making Damian?
> 
> My opinion of what could be Talia's opinion.


That's pretty spot on. Talia did love Bruce and Ra's used her as a Honey pot to sway Batman to join with Ra's.

Personally, I agree with Morrison that Talia is out of Bruce's
league. She can do much better than an emotionally constipated man-child who hangs out with teens in a Bat infested cave.

Talia is a Princess and deserves a Prince who dots on her. She deserves the Mortia Adams treatment.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> That's pretty spot on. Talia did love Bruce and Ra's used her as a Honey pot to sway Batman to join with Ra's.
> 
> Personally, I agree with Morrison that Talia is out of Bruce's
> league. She can do much better than an emotionally constipated man-child who hangs out with teens in a Bat infested cave.
> 
> Talia is a Princess and deserves a Prince who dots on her. She deserves the Mortia Adams treatment.


Dndndndndndndndnxn I think she could fall in love by him, think! Damian is also a Prince, but we he should stay with who make him happy and will not necessarily be a princess, Diana is also a Princess... and I ship her with Bruce. What should be Talia pair for you?

----------


## PowerPlay25

> Morrison confused Talia with Ra's. Talia always wanted freedom, she loved Bruce because he showed her that there was another way.


I more or less agree with this.  Traditionally Talia has only feared one person, alive.  Her Father Ra's Al Ghul.   We have seen Talia out scheme Lex Luthor.  We've seen her assault Dr. Light, Green Lantern and other Justice League members, manipulate Superman and dictate marching orders to Cheetah, Felix Faust, Metallo and etc.   Yet it is a non-meta, Ra's Al Ghul that scares her.   The only person she has ever seen successfully defy and defeat her Father, is Batman.  I got the attraction on Talia's part.   And I got why it has lasted so long.

Someone described Talia as "being in love and in hate, with Bruce."  Funny enough, I always thought Talia's ideal match would have been someone like Lex or Slade.

I think she truly believes (as her recent appearance suggest) that Bruce is a bad influence on Damian and I think we will see her, in the future, scheming to erode that relationship.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I more or less agree with this.  Traditionally Talia has only feared one person, alive.  Her Father Ra's Al Ghul.   We have seen Talia out scheme Lex Luthor.  We've seen her assault Dr. Light, Green Lantern and other Justice League members, manipulate Superman and dictate marching orders to Cheetah, Felix Faust, Metal and etc.   Yet it is a non-meta, Ra's Al Ghul that scares her.   The only person she has ever seen successfully defy and defeat her Father, is Batman.  I got the attraction on Talia's part.   And I got why it has lasted so long.
> 
> Someone described Talia as "being in love and in hate, with Bruce."  Funny enough, I always thought Talia's ideal match would have been someone like Lex or Slade.
> 
> I think she truly believes (as her recent appearance suggest) that Bruce is a bad influence on Damian and I think we will see her, in the future, scheming to erode that relationship.


As a daddy issues girl, a man or woman that defy my father get immediately a appeal and my interest @_@ never though I would see myself in Talia Al Ghul

----------


## HsssH

I think there has been, and still is to an extent, impression that there is a triangle between Batman, Ra's and Talia. And it diminishes Talia, she is often seen as a prize - something that Bruce can "win" and something that Ra's can "offer" to Bruce. It does play to the old power fantasy of hero travelling to some exotic country and finding a hot princess. Now, you might argue that this ain't really the case because X and Y happened in one storyline or another, but I'm pretty sure that this is how majority of casual fans see Talia.

I always thought that one of the goals for Morrison was to create a new status quo for Talia. Damian fundamentally alters her relationship with Bruce and to me Batman Inc. was mostly about her stepping out of her father's shadow. In the end her father is imprisoned and Bruce is defeated, she loses only due to betrayal. Understandably not everyone loved this and I feel like DC took few steps back when they brought her back, but looking at what is going now I feel like they are slowly pushing her in that direction again. Ra's can stay as Batman's villain, but Talia is above him.

----------


## PowerPlay25

> Damian fundamentally alters her relationship with Bruce and to me Batman Inc. was mostly about her stepping out of her father's shadow. In the end her father is imprisoned and Bruce is defeated, she loses only due to betrayal. Understandably not everyone loved this and I feel like DC took few steps back when they brought her back,


It is so strange to me.  I feel like Damian is the best new character to debut in decades, but I utterly loathe the way Morrison writes the Al Ghuls.    I find his Damian to be one of my least preferred (under stand how strange that is since GM created him) and his Talia was so one-dimensional.   I really expected Morisson to end every issue she was in with her sitting somewhere and going "Bwahahahaha."   The skull mask he had her in was also ridiculous.  IMO.

I was so thankful DC didn't allow that to be the end for the character.   Considering her potential nuanced dynamic with Damian (quite a few other writers are capable of displaying this) I think Talia still brings a lot to the franchise.

I see Talia eventually viewing Bruce as just one of her "dalliances."   When she is through with a guy, she does have a "let them eat cake" outlook.   Especially with the way she described "the detective" in the recent Totality discussion.   The only thing worthwhile about Bruce, is Damian.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Thinking about Talia... her life is suck =_= I just remember her fight with Seline, she said "When I give my first step my father didn't cry of happiness, he give me a sword and said 'fight'" or something like this, so bad =__=, Damian had this life for 10 years, but she had all her life... maybe Bruce showing up really changes Talia in a way she couldn't imagine... she always talked about Bruce for Damian as a amazing man because she believes that, why would she talk so much good things for Damian and keeps Bruce's cowl if she doesn't?

----------


## billee0918

Just caught up on the first two issues of the new series. Pure fun! The art is just perfect and I love the whole goofy “you only get to die three times” set up, a few intriguing new characters and some fave existing characters (Ravager, Vic). Can’t wait for issue 3!

----------


## adrikito

Damian return to Gotham or a Flashback? I see buildings here.

https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...02196088938498

Damian wayne Robin.jpg

----------


## KrustyKid

> Damian return to Gotham or a Flashback? I see buildings here.
> 
> https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...02196088938498
> 
> Damian wayne Robin.jpg


Too early to know. Either way, it looks great.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Damian return to Gotham or a Flashback? I see buildings here.
> 
> https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...02196088938498
> 
> Damian wayne Robin.jpg


I really like Damian's new costume. here he looks alike a demon/ninja. The white eyes are eerie

----------


## marhawkman

> Too early to know. Either way, it looks great.


yeah the look makes sense for Damian.

----------


## Shen

They've really screwed over Talia just to make other characters look better in comparison. 
Like we've said before, Talia is Slut-Shamed while Bruce is a Role model, yet they've both been through a fair share of lovers.

The _thing_ with Talia and Jason still makes me cringe - I don't even know if it's counted as canon anymore but I lost a little respect for both characters. I put it out of my mind until I saw a meme this morning.

That's why Jason's the Rebound Robin in my mind
Bruce lost Dick as Robin - Jason's your boi
Talia can't have Bruce -  How about Jason as your boi toy?
Kori broke up with Dick - Jaybird to the rescue
Babs and Dick Break Up - Jason as Obi-Wan "Hello There!"

----------


## KrustyKid

> They've really screwed over Talia just to make other characters look better in comparison. 
> Like we've said before, Talia is Slut-Shamed while Bruce is a Role model, yet they've both been through a fair share of lovers.
> 
> The _thing_ with Talia and Jason still makes me cringe - I don't even know if it's counted as canon anymore but I lost a little respect for both characters. I put it out of my mind until I saw a meme this morning.
> 
> That's why Jason's the Rebound Robin in my mind
> Bruce lost Dick as Robin - Jason's your boi
> Talia can't have Bruce -  How about Jason as your boi toy?
> Kori broke up with Dick - Jaybird to the rescue
> Babs and Dick Break Up - Jason as Obi-Wan "Hello There!"


Damn, I never thought about it like that. Tim and Damian better look out, Steph and Flatline could be next, LMAO!

----------


## Hypo



----------


## the1&onlyE.

> 


YES, the tournament finally begins! Ravager against him surprises me a little bit, I wonder if it has something to do with Respawn!

----------


## Hypo

>

----------


## Rac7d*

> 


1 on 2
Or 1 v1

----------


## adrikito

> 


THANKS...

How Ironic.. Fighting the 2 girls at the same time.  :Stick Out Tongue:   :Wink:  I knew that despite the 5 issue the tournament was still active..



I wonder why is the Deathstroke copy here too.. The fight is in theory against the girls.

----------


## billee0918

> THANKS...
> 
> How Ironic.. Fighting the 2 girls at the same time.   I knew that despite the 5 issue the tournament was still active..
> I wonder why is the Deathstroke copy here too.. The fight is in theory against the girls.


That’s Respawn, introduced in issue #1
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Respawn_(Prime_Earth)

----------


## adrikito

> That’s Respawn, introduced in issue #1
> https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Respawn_(Prime_Earth)


I know.. Is just that I forgot the name  :Stick Out Tongue: 

I will laugh if the character is later confirmed as female(for now I think that is male).. Thinking in this cover as this tournament youngest girls "wanting Damian".  :Wink: 

The character gender was not confirmed.

----------


## billee0918

> I know.. Is just that I forgot the name 
> 
> I will laugh if the character is later confirmed as female(for now I think that is male).. Thinking in this cover as this tournament youngest girls "wanting Damian". 
> 
> The character gender was not confirmed.


Good point!  :Big Grin:

----------


## CPSparkles

September Solicits



ARE YOU AFRAID OF DARKSEID? #1
Story by ELLIOTT KALAN, COLLIN KELLY, JACKSON LANZING, JEREMY HAUN, KENNY PORTER, CALVIN KASULKE, TERRY BLAS, ED BRISSON, and more
Pencils and Inks by MAX DUNBAR, MIKE NORTON, JESÚS HERVÁS, CHRIS MITTEN, GARRY BROWN, and more
Cover by DAN HIPP
Variant cover by TK
$9.99 US | 80 PAGESs | ONE-SHOT | PRESTIGE FORMAT
ON SALE 10/5/21

Gather 'round the fire, fellow campers, because it's time for that most terrifying of traditions—campfire stories so scary you'll never sleep without a night-light again! The Teen Titans guide those brave enough through tales of Batman and the hidden killer, Superman and Lois Lane and the killer in their back seat, Harley Quinn and Darkseid versus a furious Bloody Mary, and four more stories so hair-raising you'll call your momma to come pick you up. So toast your marshmallows, pull up a s'more, and answer the only question that matters this Halloween: Are you afraid of Darkseid?





BATMAN—KNIGHTWATCH/BAT-TECH SPECIAL EDITION
Story by J. TORRES
Art by ERICH OWEN
Cover by MARCELO DICHIARA
US $.25 Net | 32 PAGES
(sold in bundles of 25 for $6.25)
ON SALE 9/14/21

After a massive break-out at Arkham Asylum, Batman and his team are on a mission to bring all the escapees back to Arkham. First on the list is Clayface! Using social media, Batgirl taps into an informal network to track Clayface throughout the city. This inspires Penny-One to create a more organized network of informants and spies called Knightwatch!




ROBIN #6
Writer: JOSHUA WILLIAMSON
Artist: GLEB MELNIKOV
Cover: GLEB MELNIKOV
Variant Cover: FRANCIS MANAPUL
$3.99 US | 32 PGS | $4.99 US VARIANT (Card Stock)
ON SALE 9/28/21

Ding ding ding! Let the tournament begin! The most ruthless fighters in the DCU compete for the ultimate prize: eternal life. To win his first round, Damian Wayne faces two times the danger and two times the trouble: it's Ravager and Flatline versus Robin!

----------


## CPSparkles

CHALLENGE OF THE SUPER SONS #6
Writer: PETER J. TOMASI
Artist: EVAN STANLEY
Cover: SIMONE DI MEO
Variant Cover: NICK BRADSHAW
$3.99 US | 32 PGS | 6 of 7 | $4.99 US VARIANT (Card Stock)
ON SALE 9/14/21

The Super Sons were trapped in the past by Felix Faust and Vandal Savage so they could unlock the secrets of the future. A young sorceress named Rora has teamed up with Superboy and Robin to get them back to their own timeif they can overcome their über-magical captors!

----------


## Lucas 35

Damian in Checkmate #1!?

https://aiptcomics.com/2021/06/18/dc...w-checkmate-1/



[IMG]https://***********/aiptcomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Checkmate-1-5-scaled.jpg?resize=768%2C1181&ssl=1[/IMG]

----------


## adrikito

*ROBIN 3* preview:

https://aiptcomics.com/2021/06/18/dc-preview-robin-3/

Is weird see that Rose is only slighty taller than Damian. 

She was right about that fighter Kid arrogance. Damian was pissed easily for him.

OK. She really knows his identity saying his name.(I can be wrong but I think that she did not said his name in Robin 2)




AHAHAHAHAHAHAA.. That *Are you afraid of Darkseid?* looks interesting

What?? Penny-ONE in BATMAN—*KNIGHTWATCH/BAT-TECH SPECIAL EDITION*? Alfred is alive here.


*Checkmate 1*?? What is that?? 2 years ago.. So Damian had 12 years.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Damian in Checkmate #1!?
> 
> https://aiptcomics.com/2021/06/18/dc...w-checkmate-1/
> 
> 
> 
> [IMG]https://***********/aiptcomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Checkmate-1-5-scaled.jpg?resize=768%2C1181&ssl=1[/IMG]


So this is set before the Robin series?

----------


## Shen

> September Solicits
> 
> 
> 
> ARE YOU AFRAID OF DARKSEID? #1
> Story by ELLIOTT KALAN, COLLIN KELLY, JACKSON LANZING, JEREMY HAUN, KENNY PORTER, CALVIN KASULKE, TERRY BLAS, ED BRISSON, and more
> Pencils and Inks by MAX DUNBAR, MIKE NORTON, JESÚS HERVÁS, CHRIS MITTEN, GARRY BROWN, and more
> Cover by DAN HIPP
> Variant cover by TK
> ...


If I'm not mistaken, that's Aqualad Below Red Arrow right? Also, Harley Quinn AND *Darkseid* vs Bloody Mary?? 
Harley Quinn's influencing comic books from her TV Series again XD

----------


## Shen

> ROBIN #6
> Writer: JOSHUA WILLIAMSON
> Artist: GLEB MELNIKOV
> Cover: GLEB MELNIKOV
> Variant Cover: FRANCIS MANAPUL
> $3.99 US | 32 PGS | $4.99 US VARIANT (Card Stock)
> ON SALE 9/28/21
> 
> Ding ding ding! Let the tournament begin! The most ruthless fighters in the DCU compete for the ultimate prize: eternal life. To win his first round, Damian Wayne faces two times the danger and two times the trouble: it's Ravager and Flatline versus Robin!


I'm thinking it's supposed to be Robin and Respawn vs Flatline and Ravager - but Respawn refuses to help Damian. Then Damian attacks him, steals his chain and pulls a Thanos - "Fine, I'll do it myself."

----------


## marhawkman

> If I'm not mistaken, that's Aqualad Below Red Arrow right? Also, Harley Quinn AND *Darkseid* vs Bloody Mary?? 
> Harley Quinn's influencing comic books from her TV Series again XD


Mary Marvel? Well she's less powerful than Darkseid, but...still pretty powerful.  makes me wonder why they're fighting.

----------


## Shen

> Mary Marvel? Well she's less powerful than Darkseid, but...still pretty powerful.  makes me wonder why they're fighting.


I don't think it's Mary Marvel - it says 'A furious Bloody Mary' so I'm assuming it's a new character/really old one I've never heard of before. Must be someone worth getting Darkseid involved. Lol, maybe it's his Ex.

----------


## adrikito

> If I'm not mistaken, that's Aqualad Below Red Arrow right? Also, Harley Quinn AND *Darkseid* vs Bloody Mary?? 
> Harley Quinn's influencing comic books from her TV Series again XD


Is aqualad.. Watching the Hairstyle and costume it can only be him.

----------


## Shen

> So this is set before the Robin series?


Pretty Sure it is.

----------


## Shen

> Is aqualad.. Watching the Hairstyle and costume it can only be him.


Idk why Damian didn't think of him for his Titans - Jackson was/is Awesome.

----------


## garazza

Much like his relationship with Duke, Damian's burgeoning relationship with Jackson in TT was such a missed opportunity.

----------


## adrikito

> Much like his relationship with Duke, Damian's burgeoning relationship with Jackson in TT was such a missed opportunity.


I thought that too.. I liked his relationship with Aqualad.  :Frown:

----------


## Shen

Regarding the prize for this tournament - what do you guy's think about Damian gaining a form of immortality _should_ he win? Something like his regeneration and enhanced abilities from 666?

----------


## Blue22

Eh. I guess that would be pretty neat, but IMO the less connections we have to the 666 story, the better. As far as prizes for winning go, I'm still pretty sure he's just gonna bring Alfred back. Wouldn't mind if it doesn't go that way but I getting the feeling that it is.

----------


## Eckri

Either Alfred gets revived, or likely that among Connor, Rose, or Flatline gets killed and Damian uses it to resurrect them.  

On other hand, looking at the Robin#3 preview. 
I was thinking since right now, Damian's friends are currently few. Not accounting the people will get brought back like Maps, Maya, Collins, and etc. Along with his new ones in the comic, dunno if friends is the right term but hey they'll be friends by the end of this arc, hopefully like Rose, Flatline, and Connor. 

You'd think they'll have Damian interact more with people in the future? Like people said so many missed opportunities.
The Duke and Damian thing at the end of Robin War. 
The Wallace and Damian respect. 
and etc. 

Hope Damian gets more friends and keeps them.
Heard the Wally West's kids are back in town, huh maybe seeing either a Jai or Irey and Damian team up will be like a Dick/Wally dynamic. 
Just hoping that the kid makes friends and keeps them.

----------


## dietrich

> Regarding the prize for this tournament - what do you guy's think about Damian gaining a form of immortality _should_ he win? Something like his regeneration and enhanced abilities from 666?


I hope he doesn't get immortality. That would make his fights boring since there are no stakes. 

Same with the regeneration. That's OP and I'm not really a fan of that.

----------


## dietrich

> Either Alfred gets revived, or likely that among Connor, Rose, or Flatline gets killed and Damian uses it to resurrect them.  
> 
> On other hand, looking at the Robin#3 preview. 
> I was thinking since right now, Damian's friends are currently few. Not accounting the people will get brought back like Maps, Maya, Collins, and etc. Along with his new ones in the comic, dunno if friends is the right term but hey they'll be friends by the end of this arc, hopefully like Rose, Flatline, and Connor. 
> 
> You'd think they'll have Damian interact more with people in the future? Like people said so many missed opportunities.
> The Duke and Damian thing at the end of Robin War. 
> The Wallace and Damian respect. 
> and etc. 
> ...


Wish we had more Duke/Damian and Wallace/Damian.
I'd like Damian to increase his circle of pals his age. if DC is hoping for the YA audience then having the Robin series be crime fighting arcs mixed with some more relaxed social stories where he just gets to hang or have shenanigan's with other teens would be far more appealing.

I really hope he stays friends with Rose, Flateline and Conner too. Especially Connor.

----------


## dietrich

Any one catch the Truth and Justice 2 parter with Damian?

Is it worth picking up?

----------


## Darkcrusade25

> Any one catch the Truth and Justice 2 parter with Damian?
> 
> Is it worth picking up?


Heavy Batfam issue. Revolves around Damian though.

----------


## dietrich

> Heavy Batfam issue. Revolves around Damian though.


Nice. thank you.
Will check it out then.

----------


## Blue22

It's a pretty cute story so far. It's another writer who has Damian speak a little....too informally. But it's nowhere near as bad as, say, Bendis or whatever the hell was supposed to pass for Damain in Battle for the Cowl.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

Robin #3:

*spoilers:*
was such a beautiful issue, I absolutely loved it. Connor and Damian interacting was great, I really hope we get more good interactions with the both of them. And I'm super curious about the end! Can't wait for #4.  :Smile: 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Eckri

Alright latest issue 

*spoilers:*
Point of interest is Damian being saved by Ra's al Ghul. We already have a slight idea that Ra's is going to train Damian for the tournament, followed with Damian fighting with the Robins at issue 5. They're really prepping Damian for his 2nd round at Connor Hawke.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Blue22

Oh man, I love this series.

*spoilers:*
My boy! He was so happy! So, so happy! And then it all came to such an abrupt end. Can't wait to see where things go with Connor. And I'm really curious about where it's going with Ra's.

And man...Damian calling out for Bruce when he was in trouble, and actually seeming relieved when he thought Bruce was the one who saved him. Bats, you don't deserve this kid's love but evidently you still have it.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## HsssH

*spoilers:*
Is it just me or did it look like whoever saved Damian flew? Did Ra's learn how to fly or is there someone else with him?
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Shen

> *spoilers:*
> Is it just me or did it look like whoever saved Damian flew? Did Ra's learn how to fly or is there someone else with him?
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
I honestly thought it was a Man-bat, but who knows what Ra's is capable of?
*end of spoilers*

----------


## adrikito

*spoilers:*
Damian with this people and rejecting Alfred advice made him look like a normal teen.

Wow. Without call him Grandson(and the solicitations) I would had been unable to recognize Ra´s with that appearance.

I feel bad for Hawke. Forced to obey them.. And have a master that even Talia thought that was too hard..
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Shen

This was better than I expected. I'm starting to really put my faith in this ongoing.

*spoilers:*
 Damian trying to impress everyone made me grin, especially with that cheeky wink to the girls  :Wink:  Rose looked soo proud. Even the part where Batman came into the conversation and stole his thunder felt natural. 

I'm also loving his interaction with Connor, they mix pretty well together. Hell, even their fight was how I'd want it - Damian had the upper hand for the most of it, but Connor's Strength and Stamina got the better of him.

I can't wait to see what they do with Ra's - especially since I just watched Batman Begins recently. It might be too much to hope for a Ra's like that, but a guy can hope.

*end of spoilers*

----------


## HsssH

I realised that I haven't read anything with Ra's since, probably, Rebirth started. What has he been up to since then?

----------


## Shen

> I realised that I haven't read anything with Ra's since, probably, Rebirth started. What has he been up to since then?


Oh yknow, the usual. Making elaborate evil plans only to get his rear soundly handed to him for the 200th time. The last time I saw him, it was in Batman and the outsiders. 

He fulfilled his role as a plot device quite well, made Black Lightning look more OP, advanced Duke's own Meta abilities and made him stronger. Sure, there was the price of a few dead bodies, but that's just the Demon's tax.

Oh, and now Black Lightning is one of his greatest enemies. I miss the days when Ra's was an Eco-Terrorists.

----------


## KrustyKid

What an amazing issue. Damian out here starting to become my favorite Robin.

----------


## Drako

Today's issue was really good! Can't wait for the next.

----------


## Jackalope89

Was a good issue (echo-chamber, I know), but still.

----------


## hairys

Yeah, hard to say what my favorite part was.

Damian's trick with the knives
The baddies sharing Batman stories
Damian and Connor comparing dads

----------


## SteelisLean

I hope we get to see more interactions between Connor and Damian, but not fighting. Damian calling for Bruce in the end... I hope they fix their relationship. I want the Bruce that went through so much to get his son back.

----------


## Fergus

I'll say it, Robin is the best title DC is currently releasing.

Williamson has the chops. Like the new Ra's design.

This title is so much fun. Can't say that enough.

That wink from Damian! and showing off. Very smooth. This series is very very shonen.

Enjoyed the bat's teaming with Damian in Truth and Justice. The art was hit and miss though.

----------


## Fergus

> I hope we get to see more interactions between Connor and Damian, but not fighting. Damian calling for Bruce in the end... I hope they fix their relationship. I want the Bruce that went through so much to get his son back.


Their dynamic is very promising. Damian and Connor have a lot in common so I'm hopeful they'll develop the two further.

----------


## Perfidiously

I really liked the last issue! Damian hanging out at the party was nice, and yess, Connor and Damian interacting! I do think they might've opened up to each other a little quick? Given Connor's brainwashing (?) or whatever he has going on. But it's a promising dynamic! And I'm always happy to see Ra's and Damian interacting, they have a really interesting relationship as well.

One thing that made me a little sad was Damian's declaration about his friends. What about Colin, and especially Maya? Such is the way of comics though - past relationships get forgotten.

----------


## adrikito

I hope DC not makes him shorter again after this comic.. I like his current height. Saying that because after give to him a darker skin during some time DC returned with the white Damian.

Tall people does not look too tall compared with him now:

2.jpg

----------


## Shen

> I hope DC not makes him shorter again after this comic.. I like his current height. Saying that because after give to him a darker skin during some time DC returned with the white Damian.
> 
> Tall people does not look too tall compared with him now:
> 
> Attachment 110800


As much as Iove Dami being Smol - I do agree, I hope he keeps this growth (and starts growing a _bit_ more). Although, idk how tall he really is. Someone stated Ravager being around 5'4, and he's a little shorter than that.

----------


## hairys

> I'll say it, Robin is the best title DC is currently releasing.


In terms of ongoing books, I'd say it's right up there with the following:

Cloonan/Conrad's Wonder Woman
Taylor's Nightwing
Adams' The Flash
Tynion's The Joker (but only because it's secretly a Jim Gordon title, since Tynion doesn't write Joker well.)

It's too early for me to declare any of them as being head and shoulders above the others.

My *guess* is that when Infinite Frontier is over, Wonder Woman will end up being my favorite book during this era.  But we'll see how it plays out.  Maybe it's Robin instead.

----------


## Fergus

> In terms of ongoing books, I'd say it's right up there with the following:
> 
> Cloonan/Conrad's Wonder Woman
> Taylor's Nightwing
> Adams' The Flash
> Tynion's The Joker (but only because it's secretly a Jim Gordon title, since Tynion doesn't write Joker well.)
> 
> It's too early for me to declare any of them as being head and shoulders above the others.
> 
> My *guess* is that when Infinite Frontier is over, Wonder Woman will end up being my favorite book during this era.  But we'll see how it plays out.  Maybe it's Robin instead.


I had such high hopes for Nigthwing but Taylor is taking his time developing the plot. Also not best pleased that I'm yet to see any hints of 'one of DC's best detectives' that he promised.

Taylor's run thus far has been more fan service and nostalgia porn.

----------


## marhawkman

> I hope DC not makes him shorter again after this comic.. I like his current height. Saying that because after give to him a darker skin during some time DC returned with the white Damian.
> 
> Tall people does not look too tall compared with him now:


well his height was originally there to make him look young, not because he's actually small for his age.

It makes sense for him to have a similar height and build to his father.

----------


## Digifiend

> OK. She really knows his identity saying his name.(I can be wrong but I think that she did not said his name in Robin 2)


That makes sense - they were both in the Teen Titans together before Flashpoint.




> I don't think it's Mary Marvel - it says 'A furious Bloody Mary' so I'm assuming it's a new character/really old one I've never heard of before. Must be someone worth getting Darkseid involved. Lol, maybe it's his Ex.


She's a character from the early 90s Hawk and Dove series and a member of the Female Furies.
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Bloody_Mary_(New_Earth)




> Idk why Damian didn't think of him for his Titans - Jackson was/is Awesome.


Jackson was on Damian's first team. In fact, it's where he was reintroduced after being erased in the New 52 reboot.




> I realised that I haven't read anything with Ra's since, probably, Rebirth started. What has he been up to since then?


He was the main villain in Batman and the Outsiders.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> well his height was originally there to make him look young, not because he's actually small for his age.
> 
> It makes sense for him to have a similar height and build to his father.


I am sure Barbara said Damian is short dor his age and I think other characters sugested this (Also Jon, but I think it's because he is tall).

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I thought that too.. I liked his relationship with Aqualad.


Me too </3

----------


## Rac7d*

5B592855-9DD5-41B7-B981-4433422C45C6.jpg

The last time Damian saw lady Vic
Lol this beach episode is so awkward

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I really liked the last issue! Damian hanging out at the party was nice, and yess, Connor and Damian interacting! I do think they might've opened up to each other a little quick? Given Connor's brainwashing (?) or whatever he has going on. But it's a promising dynamic! And I'm always happy to see Ra's and Damian interacting, they have a really interesting relationship as well.
> 
> One thing that made me a little sad was Damian's declaration about his friends. What about Colin, and especially Maya? Such is the way of comics though - past relationships get forgotten.


Do Colin exist in DC now? Is so weird how Damian never mentions him.
Maya was just totally forgot by the writers :/ also don't like how Damian doesn't see Dick as a friend :/

***I just though, Damian and Maya last interaction was 1 year ago (for they), maybe because of this he doesn't have her in mind, or maybe he see her as a sister or a partner for a time and now them paths will keep apart.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I have 2 doubts
1-why Damian changes his clothes being this "gray robin" and this "Arabian ninja"? Everybody know he is Damian, why he doesn't just keep 1??
2- Isn't Damian too week? Kind ok for me about Flatline because I counted as a surprise element, but Connor has less practice time, and no Batman trainer, how was this fight so fast with Damian loosing it?

----------


## Rebeca Armus

*** maybe Rose know Damian's identity because she knows all Batfamily identity? I didn't read many stories with her, but maybe she knows because of Dick, Jason or Tim? Or even because of Slade?

When I read stories with Bruce I feel like EVERYONE (heroes, villains, many ex's, Robin's ex's, some peoples) knows about Batman being Bruce.

----------


## Jackalope89

> *** maybe Rose know Damian's identity because she knows all Batfamily identity? I didn't read many stories with her, but maybe she knows because of Dick, Jason or Tim? Or even because of Slade?
> 
> When I read stories with Bruce I feel like EVERYONE (heroes, villains, many ex's, Robin's ex's, some peoples) knows about Batman being Bruce.


Rose has been a Teen Titan under Dick, dated Jason at one point, and worked with the others in some capacity over the years. Her knowing Damian's identity is only to be expected in this case.

----------


## Blue22

> well his height was originally there to make him look young, not because he's actually small for his age.
> 
> It makes sense for him to have a similar height and build to his father.


I've actually always kinda liked the idea of him being a bit on the small side, even in adulthood. I could seen him being more lean rather than, say, the level of bulkiness that his Dad and Jason are typically drawn as. Less of a Batman build and more of a....I guess, Nightwing or Batman Beyond. Something more befitting of like an agile/ninja-esque type of fighter than the straight up brawler that Bruce is often portrayed as being.

----------


## Perfidiously

> Do Colin exist in DC now? Is so weird how Damian never mentions him.
> Maya was just totally forgot by the writers :/ also don't like how Damian doesn't see Dick as a friend :/
> 
> ***I just though, Damian and Maya last interaction was 1 year ago (for they), maybe because of this he doesn't have her in mind, or maybe he see her as a sister or a partner for a time and now them paths will keep apart.


Aw, it'd be a shame if Colin didn't exist anymore, but I wouldn't be super surprised. I don't really mind Dick not being counted, because I think Damian puts him firmly in the "family" category, along with all the other Bat characters. I think he and Maya did call each other brother and sister, so maybe it's the same? Still, I really liked her and wish she'd be back, or at least mentioned sometimes...




> 2- Isn't Damian too week? Kind ok for me about Flatline because I counted as a surprise element, but Connor has less practice time, and no Batman trainer, how was this fight so fast with Damian loosing it?


Connor's meant to be a really strong fighter, though. Like, he landed hits on Lady Shiva level.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Aw, it'd be a shame if Colin didn't exist anymore, but I wouldn't be super surprised. I don't really mind Dick not being counted, because I think Damian puts him firmly in the "family" category, *along with all the other Bat characters.* I think he and Maya did call each other brother and sister, so maybe it's the same? Still, I really liked her and wish she'd be back, or at least mentioned sometimes...
> 
> 
> 
> Connor's meant to be a really strong fighter, though. Like, he landed hits on Lady Shiva level.


I know at least two Bats Damian has barely gotten along with (usually because of extenuating circumstances at that); Jason and Tim.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I've actually always kinda liked the idea of him being a bit on the small side, even in adulthood. I could seen him being more lean rather than, say, the level of bulkiness that his Dad and Jason are typically drawn as. Less of a Batman build and more of a....I guess, Nightwing or Batman Beyond. Something more befitting of like an agile/ninja-esque type of fighter than the straight up brawler that Bruce is often portrayed as being.


I love the idea of he being

Small
Small
Small
So a little late puberty splash 
So he keep kind disproportional for a time (not weird, just like boys do, but stronger than Tim)
So a pretty man (like Dick, probably without his butty)
And a handsome man (Still small than Bruce and Jason as you said)
(*-*)/ deep breathe

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Aw, it'd be a shame if Colin didn't exist anymore, but I wouldn't be super surprised. I don't really mind Dick not being counted, because I think Damian puts him firmly in the "family" category, along with all the other Bat characters. I think he and Maya did call each other brother and sister, so maybe it's the same? Still, I really liked her and wish she'd be back, or at least mentioned sometimes...
> 
> 
> 
> Connor's meant to be a really strong fighter, though. Like, he landed hits on Lady Shiva level.


Hummm ok, convinced me, I don't know her, but I know she is intensive strong and will shows up in the new animation, can't not be amazing u.u

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I know at least two Bats Damian has barely gotten along with (usually because of extenuating circumstances at that); Jason and Tim.


Worng post I misunderstood a couple 9f words ><

----------


## Rac7d*

> I love the idea of he being
> 
> Small
> Small
> Small
> So a little late puberty splash 
> So he keep kind disproportional for a time (not weird, just like boys do, but stronger than Tim)
> So a pretty man (like Dick, probably without his butty)
> And a handsome man (Still small than Bruce and Jason as you said)
> (*-*)/ deep breathe


 Sometimes I want him to grow a little so he can reach his full potential 
He can’t beat experienced full grown men like Slade and Connor wile he’s still a child

----------


## Light of Justice

> Aw, it'd be a shame if Colin didn't exist anymore, but I wouldn't be super surprised. I don't really mind Dick not being counted, because I think Damian puts him firmly in the "family" category, along with all the other Bat characters. I think he and Maya did call each other brother and sister, so maybe it's the same? Still, I really liked her and wish she'd be back, or at least mentioned sometimes...
> 
> 
> 
> Connor's meant to be a really strong fighter, though. Like, he landed hits on Lady Shiva level.


yeah some fans already protested that Damian can land some punches on Connor

----------


## Eckri

> Sometimes I want him to grow a little so he can reach his full potential 
> He can’t beat experienced full grown men like Slade and Connor wile he’s still a child


We got a glimpse of Damian at full potential in the Batman Beyond comics. 
Sure he was the leader of the League of Assassins, but we did see him at his maximum potential in terms of combat.

----------


## Shen

> yeah some fans already protested that Damian can land some punches on Connor


That's just dumb though. With their mindset, some C-grade thug is a top tier fighter because they landed a few hits on Cass.

Even in that case, the fight between Damian and Connor was perfect. Damian showed more skill and speed in the beginning (he landed quite a few hits - even dodged Connor's barrage of punches and snuck a clean hit in) but got outclassed in the long term. 

Idk why it's hard for people to understand how skilled he is. The only reason why Damian isn't one of the best fighters in the world currently, is because of his physical limitations and his arrogance. Given time (maybe in this ongoing, even) he'll work through those and become better. 

I swear, when Rose explained the rules of the tournament and Damian asked her "I don't have to hold back?", I could _hear_ the relief in his voice off the page. This is a kid who has been trained throughout his life to do one thing - KILL. Ruthlessly, efficiently and skillfully. 

I look forward to hearing their complaints while they powerscale his abilities according to their (lack of) understanding of the character.

----------


## Shen

> We got a glimpse of Damian at full potential in the Batman Beyond comics. 
> Sure he was the leader of the League of Assassins, but we did see him at his maximum potential in terms of combat.


You see, I liked his version of the LoA. He really was interested in the original goal of Ra's - saving the planet. Sure, it helps to have a bunch of lethal killers but as Ghandi said: "There is no shame in deterrence - having a weapon is very different from using it." Of course, that was a bug in The Civilizations game - and Gandhi ended up using a nuke so...
Yeaaaahhhh.

Anywho, I liked Ra's al Damian.

----------


## Light of Justice

> That's just dumb though. With their mindset, some C-grade thug is a top tier fighter because they landed a few hits on Cass.


I also see some fans complained about Duke could land some strike on Cass when they spar. At this point, they're just looking for argument, probably

----------


## Fergus

> That's just dumb though. With their mindset, some C-grade thug is a top tier fighter because they landed a few hits on Cass.
> 
> Even in that case, the fight between Damian and Connor was perfect. Damian showed more skill and speed in the beginning (he landed quite a few hits - even dodged Connor's barrage of punches and snuck a clean hit in) but got outclassed in the long term. 
> 
> Idk why it's hard for people to understand how skilled he is. The only reason why Damian isn't one of the best fighters in the world currently, is because of his physical limitations and his arrogance. Given time (maybe in this ongoing, even) he'll work through those and become better. 
> 
> I swear, when Rose explained the rules of the tournament and Damian asked her "I don't have to hold back?", I could _hear_ the relief in his voice off the page. This is a kid who has been trained throughout his life to do one thing - KILL. Ruthlessly, efficiently and skillfully. 
> 
> I look forward to hearing their complaints while they powerscale his abilities according to their (lack of) understanding of the character.


Some fans insist on rejecting the tropes and logic that hero comics are built on when it comes to some characters.

Robins have always been kids who kick grown men's arse.

Bruce himself once explained to Dick about the physiological effects on the bad guys mind of getting beaten up by a kid [a bonus]

Damian's size doesn't even matter since there are real life martial arts designed to use an opponents weight and mass against them.

----------


## Fergus

> *** maybe Rose know Damian's identity because she knows all Batfamily identity? I didn't read many stories with her, but maybe she knows because of Dick, Jason or Tim? Or even because of Slade?
> 
> When I read stories with Bruce I feel like EVERYONE (heroes, villains, many ex's, Robin's ex's, some peoples) knows about Batman being Bruce.


Damian and Rose have worked together on the TT in the past they got on quite well.. Damian also kind of has a habit of sucking a lot when it comes to his identity secret. Maybe he let something slip

----------


## Fergus

> Rose has been a Teen Titan under Dick, dated Jason at one point, and worked with the others in some capacity over the years. Her knowing Damian's identity is only to be expected in this case.


I know Jason and Rose had a thing in an elseworld and in a possible future. When did they date in canon prior to this Robin series?

----------


## Jackalope89

> I know Jason and Rose had a thing in an elseworld and in a possible future. When did they date in canon prior to this Robin series?




While not explicitly stated when they dated, it is certainly heavily implied they did (this was New52, which didn't change that much for Jason's story).

----------


## Digifiend

> Damian and Rose have worked together on the TT in the past they got on quite well.. Damian also kind of has a habit of sucking a lot when it comes to his identity secret. Maybe he let something slip


Yeah.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

We fans are silly dilly about "who would win who", I always says "You see according with Stan Lee, the comic's God, who wins is who the writer decides will win oh-ho-ho" and so when I don't agree with a winner or a movement in a fight "humf! Totally inaccurate, ooc, this never happened, not well wrote, humf!" Can't hold myself.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Damian and Rose have worked together on the TT in the past they got on quite well.. Damian also kind of has a habit of sucking a lot when it comes to his identity secret. Maybe he let something slip


When Damian was suck about his identity secret?

----------


## adrikito

> While not explicitly stated when they dated, it is certainly heavily implied they did (this was New52, which didn't change that much for Jason's story).


They are a good option as a couple..

Despite I think that Artemis will be always my favorite.

----------


## Rac7d*

> I have 2 doubts
> 1-why Damian changes his clothes being this "gray robin" and this "Arabian ninja"? Everybody know he is Damian, why he doesn't just keep 1??
> 2- Isn't Damian too week? Kind ok for me about Flatline because I counted as a surprise element, but Connor has less practice time, and no Batman trainer, how was this fight so fast with Damian loosing it?


Hes a fashion Icon and he bathed why wouldnt he change outfits

----------


## Eckri

> He’s a fashion Icon and he bathed why wouldn’t he change outfits


So far we've seen his gray ninja outfit and new robin outfit. Hoping to see more outfits, maybe a Tuxedo with a mask after this whole tournament arc is done. Probably do spy missions. 

On the topic of fashion and outfits, just a funny thing I conjured up, I do think Damian would definitely say that Tim Drake's first Robin outfit was an improvement overall over the previous Robin outfits. Talking about the Dick's short shorts outfit, the classic one.

I mean really, if Jason complained about the short shorts during Death Metal, and I think Damian would have similar opinions on the first ever Robin outfit. Still iconic, though but I doubt Damian would ever wear that.

----------


## Eckri

The Iconic Look.jpg

Yeah his reaction is probably be like this, if he was ever going to be asked to wear the iconic first Robin outfit. Even for a one time occasion.

----------


## Light of Justice

> When Damian was suck about his identity secret?


I remember some occasions Damian bragged about he was raised by assasins while he didn't wear any disguise

----------


## HsssH

Going back a bit to Damian's height, he was kinda like his dad in Batman 666, no? Maybe slightly less bulky? My point is that Morrison and Kubert probably never intended him to be noticeably shorter than other characters.

----------


## marhawkman

> I've actually always kinda liked the idea of him being a bit on the small side, even in adulthood. I could seen him being more lean rather than, say, the level of bulkiness that his Dad and Jason are typically drawn as. Less of a Batman build and more of a....I guess, Nightwing or Batman Beyond. Something more befitting of like an agile/ninja-esque type of fighter than the straight up brawler that Bruce is often portrayed as being.


Talia's not exactly hench, so it does follow that Damian could be more slender than Bruce yeah.  now that I think about it, grampa Ra's is usually shown to be a bit less bulky than Bruce.



> Going back a bit to Damian's height, he was kinda like his dad in Batman 666, no? Maybe slightly less bulky? My point is that Morrison and Kubert probably never intended him to be noticeably shorter than other characters.


Yeah his parents are either normal or a bit above average in height.  It doesn't make sense for him to be short for his age, he's just not full grown yet.

----------


## Perfidiously

> I remember some occasions Damian bragged about he was raised by assasins while he didn't wear any disguise


Yeah, I'm pretty sure he does that. Also, a lot of villains seem to be aware that Robin is an al Ghul. I distinctly remember Deathstroke at one point telling Batman something like "only an idiot wouldn't peg Robin as an al Ghul, he's a huge security risk". It probably isn't hard to connect the dots between Damian al Ghul and Damian Wayne either. 

It's easier to handwave the secret identity stuff. I'm pretty sure a shocking amount of people know that Bruce Wayne is Batman too.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Yeah, I'm pretty sure he does that. Also, a lot of villains seem to be aware that Robin is an al Ghul. I distinctly remember Deathstroke at one point telling Batman something like "only an idiot wouldn't peg Robin as an al Ghul, he's a huge security risk". It probably isn't hard to connect the dots between Damian al Ghul and Damian Wayne either. 
> 
> It's easier to handwave the secret identity stuff. I'm pretty sure a shocking amount of people know that Bruce Wayne is Batman too.


I don't remember this... but, yeah, he always says the "I am son of Batmand and an Al Ghul treined assassin" thing

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I still think Damian is a little short for his age, his size in comics and movie would make no sense if he is not a little small, he does looks small when he is with adults, teenagers and childs.

----------


## Blue22

> Yeah his parents are either normal or a bit above average in height.  It doesn't make sense for him to be short for his age, he's just not full grown yet.


You'd be surprised. Both of my parents are pretty average height. I'm taller than both of them while my sister is shorter than both of them by like....a significant amount lol

----------


## marhawkman

> Yeah, I'm pretty sure he does that. Also, a lot of villains seem to be aware that Robin is an al Ghul. I distinctly remember Deathstroke at one point telling Batman something like "only an idiot wouldn't peg Robin as an al Ghul, he's a huge security risk". It probably isn't hard to connect the dots between Damian al Ghul and Damian Wayne either. 
> 
> It's easier to handwave the secret identity stuff. I'm pretty sure a shocking amount of people know that Bruce Wayne is Batman too.


And not just how many but WHO....  Like Talia...


> You'd be surprised. Both of my parents are pretty average height. I'm taller than both of them while my sister is shorter than both of them by like....a significant amount lol


Yeah, it happens, but random is random.  The more different the less likely.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> You'd be surprised. Both of my parents are pretty average height. I'm taller than both of them while my sister is shorter than both of them by like....a significant amount lol


I am shorter than my little sister =_= genetic make angry, not lol, just kidding lol...
Being "short for his age" just means he is short for his age in that moment, doesn't mean he is going to be short always.

----------


## Jackalope89

Barring one cousin of each gender, most males in my family tend to hit their height around 6ft, while the females tend to top out around 5'4-5'6. One male cousin is about 5'4, and the one female cousin is about 5'8.

So, yeah. Outliers exist.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Every time I read inch measure I remember the TT GO episode about metric system X'''D I have no idea if it's short, medium or tall XD
But, if Damian DID SAID HE IS SHORTER THAN BRUCE IN HIS AGE he is, CANON.

----------


## Shen

Considering that Talia messed with his DNA, I'd say it's safe to say he's gonna get around to Bruce's height at some point. For now, I'm happy with where he is. 

I mean, Flatline seems to be around the same age, and she's about the same height. When I was that age, I was _waaay_ shorter than the girls at my age - but now I'm quite tall tbh.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Yeah, wait until Damian hits SUPER PUBERTYYY 
XD

----------


## Fergus

https://adoptedbybrucewayne.tumblr.com

----------


## adrikito

When more I see his new costume more I like it..

The time pass and I miss even less his previous Robin costume.

----------


## Restingvoice

> I hope DC not makes him shorter again after this comic.. I like his current height. Saying that because after give to him a darker skin during some time DC returned with the white Damian.
> 
> Tall people does not look too tall compared with him now:
> 
> Attachment 110800


because of Damian's proportion, he still has that big head, this to me looks like Connor is short, like he's Tim's height.

----------


## PowerPlay25

I never knew him being small was a pet peeve for some.

I've always actually really liked that he was shorter than most.  Can't exactly explain it, just something I enjoyed on a visual level.

Comic characters never age, it's their thing.

----------


## Fergus

I like Damian being unusually short. It contrasts his folks. I also prefer his eyes green like Talia sets him apart from his brothers.


So Damian has his own Tailor. How else did he get all these costumes?

----------


## adrikito

This is REALLY SAD.. Old characters who had been here FOR YEARS like Damian and Steph under Duke  Thomas???

https://screenrant.com/most-importan...embers-ranked/

Knowing DC I can understand the reason because Steph would end under him but...  Even Damian? WTF..

----------


## Morgoth

Lol. Popular character with good selling ongoing is below Duke, Tim, and Cass who barely appear and had any important role in years? Really?

----------


## CPSparkles

Well Screenrant is pretty Rubbish. That's just the particular bloggers biased opinion.

@Morgoth's point alone dismantles the whole list objectively.

----------


## CPSparkles

https://batshit-birds.tumblr.com

----------


## HsssH

There are lists and then there are lists with Tim being #4.

----------


## Jackalope89

> There are lists and then there are lists with Tim being #4.


Tim is living up to his nickname of "Replacement" WAY too well in recent times.

----------


## sifighter

By the way I was thinking of something, about Robin #3 with his grow up too fast line. Sure he was definitely referring to Jon but what about Raven, Beast Boy, and Kaldur/Jackson? Raven and Beast Boy during rebirth were teenagers until they got all their continuity back and are now once again in their late 20’s to 30’s teaching at Titans Academy. Whereas Jackson is now on his way to becoming Aquaman come his September miniseries.The only one who really didn’t age out on him was Wallace when you think about it.

----------


## Jackalope89

> By the way I was thinking of something, about Robin #3 with his grow up too fast line. Sure he was definitely referring to Jon but what about Raven, Beast Boy, and Kaldur/Jackson? Raven and Beast Boy during rebirth were teenagers until they got all their continuity back and are now once again in their late 20’s to 30’s teaching at Titans Academy. Whereas Jackson is now on his way to becoming Aquaman come his September miniseries.The only one who really didn’t age out on him was Wallace when you think about it.


I don't know if I would call Raven and Beast Boy his friends. More amicable than his second group of Titans, yes. But being aged out? Eh, they were already established being at least a few years older. But now with their true ages restored, I'm actually happy.

----------


## Jackalope89

> https://batshit-birds.tumblr.com


This setting, plus a similarly aged Yara Flor, along with the others in their age group, would be a fun series. 

Ah, what could have been. But we're stuck with imposter Jon for the time being.  :Mad:

----------


## Digifiend

> By the way I was thinking of something, about Robin #3 with his grow up too fast line. Sure he was definitely referring to Jon but what about Raven, Beast Boy, and Kaldur/Jackson? Raven and Beast Boy during rebirth were teenagers until they got all their continuity back and are now once again in their late 20s to 30s teaching at Titans Academy. Whereas Jackson is now on his way to becoming Aquaman come his September miniseries.The only one who really didnt age out on him was Wallace when you think about it.


Dick, Kori, Vic and Donna are late 20s, yes, but Garfield and Raven are only about 25. Gar was always a couple of years younger than the other Titans, and Raven actually died, and was de-aged back to a teen in the 2003 Teen Titans run. She may have been aged up a bit later, but she's no older than Gar.

----------


## sifighter

> Dick, Kori, Vic and Donna are late 20s, yes, but Garfield and Raven are only about 25. Gar was always a couple of years younger than the other Titans, and Raven actually died, and was de-aged back to a teen in the 2003 Teen Titans run. She may have been aged up a bit later, but she's no older than Gar.


Im just saying neither looked like they were in their 20s in the rebirth run.

----------


## adrikito

> Lol. Popular character with good selling ongoing is below Duke, Tim, and Cass who barely appear and had any important role in years? Really?


I can´t understand it neither.. Damian was even trained during all his life..

And about the DAY PROTECTOR thing.. I saw Batman and the rest of the batfamily making things during the day.. Is not anything new that makes Duke special




> https://batshit-birds.tumblr.com


I was not expecting see Damian sharing one fanart with her after 3 issues.. If Joshua Williamson&Gleb Melnikov know about this they will feel proud of her.

----------


## HsssH

Anyone tried Truth and Justice with Damian? Anything good there?

----------


## adrikito

He was kidnapped for 2 Golems in his 14th birthday day... The Pre-flashpoint Batfamily(the Robins and Batgirls-minus helena) is here but Bruce is not here AGAIN. There are some funny troll moments.(even after he was kidnapped).

I think that is funny but.. This can´t be considered CANON.. Alfred is alive.

----------


## Restingvoice

*spoilers:*
]Damian is mentioned to be Anatolian by his enemy, and Dick said it's because of Talia... which... is... not... true... his grandmother Melisande is Chinese Arab. 

Ra's is half Chinese from his father's side and half an extinct mystery nomad who settled in North Africa or Saudi Arabia depending on continuity. He took the name Ra's from a local dialect, which, in the North Africa version, after the Islamic Empire expansion could be Arabic (Ra's was alive at the earliest during The Crusade). 

Basically though, Ra's creator intended Ra's heritage to be a mystery, older and not the current culture, since Ra's want that heritage to burn alongside his past, he basically erased it from history. 

They didn't even want to define Ra's as Chinese, just that he and his family knew the language, but then future writers made The Sensei, who is Chinese, his father, so now he's half Chinese. 

The other half could be some spin-off from Turkey if someone want it to be, so if someone want to canonize Anatolian Damian, making the mystery extinct nomad to be some branch of Anatolian is the way to do it. 

In Wikipedia it's said that Ra's is part Byzantine, but that's a misread of what Talia said in Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul "He led a byzantine life". That's the only mention of Byzantine in all of Ra's origin stories. Birth of The Demon, Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul, and Batman and Robin #23.3.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Pohzee

> He was kidnapped for 2 Golems in his 14th birthday day... The Pre-flashpoint Batfamily(the Robins and Batgirls-minus helena) is here but Bruce is not here AGAIN. There are some funny troll moments.(even after he was kidnapped).
> 
> I think that is funny but.. This can´t be considered CANON.. Alfred is alive.


Given the costume Cassandra Cain wears in the story, this story would be set before the end of King's run and Alfred's death.

----------


## Light of Justice

> He was kidnapped for 2 Golems in his 14th birthday day... The Pre-flashpoint Batfamily(the Robins and Batgirls-minus helena) is here but Bruce is not here AGAIN. There are some funny troll moments.(even after he was kidnapped).
> 
> I think that is funny but.. This can´t be considered CANON.. Alfred is alive.


the story was placed in Damian's 13th birthday


which is greatly contradict with Teen Titans rebirth story, so it can be considered non-canon or another alternate story of "how Ra's terrorized Damian on the very first day of his teenage life". 
Speaking about birthday, what date is Damian's birthday exactly?

----------


## dietrich

> Anyone tried Truth and Justice with Damian? Anything good there?


His two part story was quite enjoyable and features the other Robins and Bat girls so it was like a little Bat Squad reunion.

I found it enjoyable enough.

----------


## dietrich

> the story was placed in Damian's 13th birthday
> 
> 
> which is greatly contradict with Teen Titans rebirth story, so it can be considered non-canon or another alternate story of "how Ra's terrorized Damian on the very first day of his teenage life". 
> [b]Speaking about birthday, what date is Damian's birthday exactly[b]?


It's never been specified sadly.

----------


## dietrich

> Damian is mentioned to be Anatolian by his enemy, and Dick said it's because of Talia... which... is... not... true... his grandmother Melisande is Chinese Arab. 
> 
> Ra's is half Chinese from his father's side and half an extinct mystery nomad who settled in North Africa or Saudi Arabia depending on continuity. He took the name Ra's from a local dialect, which, in the North Africa version, after the Islamic Empire expansion could be Arabic (Ra's was alive at the earliest during The Crusade). 
> 
> Basically though, Ra's creator intended Ra's heritage to be a mystery, older and not the current culture, since Ra's want that heritage to burn alongside his past, he basically erased it from history. 
> 
> They didn't even want to define Ra's as Chinese, just that he and his family knew the language, but then future writers made The Sensei, who is Chinese, his father, so now he's half Chinese. 
> 
> The other half could be some spin-off from Turkey if someone want it to be, so if someone want to canonize Anatolian Damian, making the mystery extinct nomad to be some branch of Anatolian is the way to do it. 
> ...


*spoilers:*
The writer of Truth and Justice is Turkish and said that the issue gave him the chance to explore his heritage with his comics for the 1st time. I didn't think Ra's was of Turkish decent
*end of spoilers*

----------


## dietrich

You guys at let spoiler tag your T&J story details for readers still deciding whether or not to check it out.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Anyone tried Truth and Justice with Damian? Anything good there?


Very cute and fun in my opinion, also loved character design, damian is so round and small

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Since Connor will shows up more in Robin I want to try something with him. 
There is some nice short comic where I can know Connor better?

----------


## Shen

Disregarding Continuity, Damian's actual mannerisms and whatnot - Truth & Justice is pretty fun.

*spoilers:*
I'm not sure of the time periods, so I could be wrong - but isn't it a possibility that An ancestor of Ra's came from the Hitite people? 

Also, that one dude who gets caught up in Damian's mess had me cracking a grin. It's cliche, but still funny.

Seriously though, with the amount of times Damian's had the chance to be more than human (Including the Lazarus Tourney) - It's my personal headcanon that at some point he'll have a kind of secret McGuffin that will help him in Desperate Times. 

Kinda like the Hellbat Armor. Or the Devastator Batman's "Doomsday Protocol" that turned him into Doomsday. Just imagine Damian's "Omega" or "Chaos Protocol" - stab himself with the Chaos shard and be ready to fight a God. 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## dietrich

> Disregarding Continuity, Damian's actual mannerisms and whatnot - Truth & Justice is pretty fun.
> 
> *spoilers:*
> I'm not sure of the time periods, so I could be wrong - but isn't it a possibility that An ancestor of Ra's came from the Hitite people? 
> 
> Also, that one dude who gets caught up in Damian's mess had me cracking a grin. It's cliche, but still funny.
> 
> Seriously though, with the amount of times Damian's had the chance to be more than human (Including the Lazarus Tourney) - It's my personal headcanon that at some point he'll have a kind of secret McGuffin that will help him in Desperate Times. 
> 
> ...


*spoilers:*
 I like the sound of the Chaos Protocol. I wish the Super Damian arc in  B&R had been longer.  
*end of spoilers*

----------


## adrikito

Yeah. Truth and Justice with Damian is funny..

----------


## CPSparkles



----------


## Shen

> 


Aww, this story was nice. I loved how they explained Damian's Dilemma of being both Wayne and Al'Ghul. I would've preferred this for his 13th birthday than Bruce being too busy *Again*. 

That gift tho XD

----------


## Rac7d*

Most children need supervision I’m not sure what Bruce is trying to say

----------


## Astralabius

> Most children need supervision I’m not sure what Bruce is trying to say


Maybe Bruce is pissed because he can't pawn off responsibility for Damian to Alfred anymore.

----------


## HsssH

One of those dads who likes the idea of having children, but will leave all the responsibility to the mother. Well, Alfred in this case.

----------


## dietrich

Come on guys, Alfred is worse than Bruce when it come to Damian. When has Alfred ever been a parental figure to Damian? Never.

When has Alfred gone out of his way to do what was detrimental to Damian? Lots of times.

Dick raised Damian not Alfred.

Alfred gaslighted Damian, sent him away when he was 10 and endangered him unnecessarily during City of bane

----------


## dietrich

> 


This is sweet. Enjoyed the story a great deal.

----------


## dietrich

> Most children need supervision I’m not sure what Bruce is trying to say


Bruce has never been a hands on dad. a hands on Robin trainer yeah but never a hands on dad

----------


## Astralabius

> Come on guys, Alfred is worse than Bruce when it come to Damian. When has Alfred ever been a parental figure to Damian? Never.
> 
> When has Alfred gone out of his way to do what was detrimental to Damian? Lots of times.
> 
> Dick raised Damian not Alfred.
> 
> Alfred gaslighted Damian, sent him away when he was 10 and endangered him unnecessarily during City of bane


We talked about responsibility, not about being a father figure. Alfred was the one who got Damian to school, made him his food (and made sure he ate it), remembered his birthday or patched him up when he was injured.

I also feel like you ignore that Dick hasn't done much to help Damian either in recent years.
Raven wanted to talk about Damian's new rogue Teen Titans and Dick didn't want to bother with it. He talked badly about Damian at the end of the Teen Titans books and so far he hasn't shown more concern about his disappearance than any other member of the family.

----------


## Astralabius

> Bruce has never been a hands on dad. a hands on Robin trainer yeah but never a hands on dad


And that is why he sucks. If he doesn't want to raise kids he should stop taking them under his wing.

----------


## dietrich

> We talked about responsibility, not about being a father figure. Alfred was the one who got Damian to school, made him his food (and made sure he ate it), remembered his birthday or patched him up when he was injured.
> 
> I also feel like you ignore that Dick hasn't done much to help Damian either in recent years.
> Raven wanted to talk about Damian's new rogue Teen Titans and Dick didn't want to bother with it. He talked badly about Damian at the end of the Teen Titans books and so far he hasn't shown more concern about his disappearance than any other member of the family.


Dick thought Damian what Unconditional love meant while Alfred sent him away when he had no where to go. Alfred didn't take responsibility for Damian while dick did.

Doing the school run and making fun isn't parental responsibility.

My parents never did the school run and my mother didn't make my meals. They paid people to do that. Those people were never responsible for me. They were not my parents but they still wished me a happy birthday sometimes before my folks because I saw them more frequently.

Dick has his own problems and he shouldn't be obligated to discuss Damian's issues. That still doesn't change the fact that Dick has been more of a parent to Damian than Alfred ever has been.

----------


## dietrich

> And that is why he sucks. If he doesn't want to raise kids he should stop taking them under his wing.


Agreed but sadly real life writers keep giving kids to a character who hasn't had a place in his world for a kid since the late 80's.

----------


## Godlike13

> And that is why he sucks. If he doesn't want to raise kids he should stop taking them under his wing.


He never wanted Damian. Damian wasn’t meant to be something he wanted, but a nightmare situation. He did alright with Dick, Jason went sideways, but the rest were thrust at him.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Aww, this story was nice. I loved how they explained Damian's Dilemma of being both Wayne and Al'Ghul. I would've preferred this for his 13th birthday than Bruce being too busy *Again*. 
> 
> That gift tho XD


It put a smile on my face.

----------


## Light of Justice

> He never wanted Damian. Damian wasn’t meant to be something he wanted, but a nightmare situation. He did alright with Dick, Jason went sideways, but the rest were thrust at him.


If Bruce never wanted Damian, he will not bring him back from Apocalypse.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Come on guys, Alfred is worse than Bruce when it come to Damian. When has Alfred ever been a parental figure to Damian? Never.
> 
> When has Alfred gone out of his way to do what was detrimental to Damian? Lots of times.
> 
> Dick raised Damian not Alfred.
> 
> Alfred gaslighted Damian, sent him away when he was 10 and endangered him unnecessarily during City of bane


Alfred is not that bad. While indeed what happened when Bruce got amnesic is bad (and whatever happened on Teen Titans but I'd like to believe that it never happened), but so far Alfred has been a quite good adult for Damian.

Bruce gave Damian Titus with "Damian has Issues and the dog maybe will do some good for him" in mind. Alfred gave Damian Alfred the Cat with "This cat reminds me of Damian and I think Damian will be happy to meet him" in mind. We can see which one made him happy and which one made him angry at first.
He gave Damian haircuts in RSOB.
Alfred's role of parenting in Supersons are maybe more than Bruce's.
He accompanied Damian on his thirteen's birthday.

I don't understand your point on endangered him unnecessarily during City of bane. He signaled Batman so Batman can attack Bane without any worry for his life. It's not his fault that Batman chose to send his 13 years old boy alone instead. Besides, before his death he also begged Bane not for his life, but for not killing him in front of Damian.

----------


## Godlike13

> If Bruce never wanted Damian, he will not bring him back from Apocalypse.


Just because he didn't want Damian, doesn't mean he wants him dead. He's come to love him, as he can. But Damian was not something Bruce set out to create or be responsible for. Damian was created as a means to try and control him. He was born to conquer the world and raised by evil. Nothing about Damian's situation is what Bruce wanted. He was created to be Bruce's worst nightmare.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Just because he didn't want Damian, doesn't mean he wants him dead. He's come to love him, as he can. But Damian was not something Bruce set out to create or be responsible for. Damian was created as a means to try and control him. He was born to conquer the world and raised by evil. Nothing about Damian's situation is what Bruce wanted. He was created to be Bruce's worst nightmare.


You guys are being unnecessarily harsh. Bruce loves that boy, he’s literally gone further for him the any of his other children

----------


## Jackalope89

> You guys are being unnecessarily harsh. Bruce loves that boy, he’s literally gone further for him the any of his other children


Including tricking Jason (right after Jason offered his help to Bruce) to go back to the very place Jason died. To force Jason to relive the trauma he went through so that Bruce could "find some clue" or whatever.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> Just because he didn't want Damian, doesn't mean he wants him dead. He's come to love him, as he can. But Damian was not something Bruce set out to create or be responsible for. Damian was created as a means to try and control him. He was born to conquer the world and raised by evil. Nothing about Damian's situation is what Bruce wanted. He was created to be Bruce's worst nightmare.


This is true, but only regarding the first few years of Morrison's run. Bruce and Damian's reationship has evolved a lot, and the reason they are not getting along right is because when they wanted to villainize Damian, the first thing they did was destroy their reationship, which hasn't been fixed yet. They do love each other and I hate when people downpay their relationship like this. We're in 2021, not 2011.

----------


## Shen

> This is true, but only regarding the first few years of Morrison's run. Bruce and Damian's reationship has evolved a lot, and the reason they are not getting along right is because when they wanted to villainize Damian, the first thing they did was destroy their reationship, which hasn't been fixed yet. They do love each other and *I hate when people downpay their relationship like this*. We're in 2021, not 2011.


Yeah, same. Even though he had no desire for a child, he eventually did for Damian exactly what he did for all his other kids - gave him a home. 

It's sometimes difficult for Bruce because - well, he's Bruce, but that doesn't mean he doesn't care for Damian. And the same can be said for the little shit. They just suck at emotions and they're both too proud.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Yeah, same. Even though he had no desire for a child, he eventually did for Damian exactly what he did for all his other kids - gave him a home. 
> 
> It's sometimes difficult for Bruce because - well, he's Bruce, but that doesn't mean he doesn't care for Damian. And the same can be said for the little shit. They just suck at emotions and they're both too proud.


I recall someone described their relationship as "when 10 years old Bruce meets forever 8 years old Bruce"

----------


## dietrich

Godlike wasn't downplaying Damian and bruce's relationship nor were they being harsh.
Just spitting facts.

The debate is why does bruce keep taking kids under his wing/bring them into his world if he doesn't take responsibility.
Bruce didn't choose to bring Damian into his world. talia, Alfred and Dick did. Bruce returned and couldn't let him go.

Bruce loves Damian that's obvious but unlike Dick and Jason, Bruce wasn't the one who brought him into the Bat crime fighting World initially.

----------


## dietrich

> Yeah, same. Even though he had no desire for a child, he eventually did for Damian exactly what he did for all his other kids - gave him a home. 
> 
> It's sometimes difficult for Bruce because - well, he's Bruce, but that doesn't mean he doesn't care for Damian. And the same can be said for the little shit. They just suck at emotions and they're both too proud.


Not only that he accepted Damian for himself regardless of blood [demonstrated by him burning the DNA results in Batman v Deathstroke]

----------


## Godlike13

> Godlike wasn't downplaying Damian and bruce's relationship nor were they being harsh.
> Just spitting facts.
> 
> The debate is why does bruce keep taking kids under his wing/bring them into his world if he doesn't take responsibility.
> Bruce didn't choose to bring Damian into his world. talia, Alfred and Dick did. Bruce returned and couldn't let him go.
> 
> Bruce loves Damian that's obvious but unlike Dick and Jason, Bruce wasn't the one who brought him into the Bat crime fighting World initially.


Exactly, thank you. Bruce didn’t want a 10 year old son he didn’t know existed, nor is Damian the ideal kind of son he would want or wanted. The kind of kid Bruce wants is like Dick, not an even more extreme little version of himself with a broken sense of morals. Bruce loves Damian, but he wasn’t prepared for him and quite frankly still isn’t. He might never be. But that’s part of the point of Damian. Even 10 years later. As much as Bruce loves Damian, and has come to accept Damian as he can, the very nature of Damian presents and remains a challenge for Bruce. Which is the intent behind Damian. And it’s not something they are going to resolve anything time soon.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Godlike wasn't downplaying Damian and bruce's relationship nor were they being harsh.
> Just spitting facts.
> 
> The debate is why does bruce keep taking kids under his wing/bring them into his world if he doesn't take responsibility.
> Bruce didn't choose to bring Damian into his world. talia, Alfred and Dick did. Bruce returned and couldn't let him go.
> 
> Bruce loves Damian that's obvious but unlike Dick and Jason, Bruce wasn't the one who brought him into the Bat crime fighting World initially.


I think it’s very much harsh to call
A chil unwanted but sure. If the debate is why can he no refuse the other kids, they don’t really him a choice. They start on their own and if he doesn’t help they could die

----------


## Shen

> I recall someone described their relationship as "when 10 years old Bruce meets forever 8 years old Bruce"


Damn, is that... profound? Idk, it seems quite deep to me - but I'm just an uncultured cavedweller - so what do I know? XD

----------


## Shen

> Godlike wasn't downplaying Damian and bruce's relationship nor were they being harsh.
> Just spitting facts.
> 
> The debate is why does bruce keep taking kids under his wing/bring them into his world if he doesn't take responsibility.
> Bruce didn't choose to bring Damian into his world. talia, Alfred and Dick did. Bruce returned and couldn't let him go.
> 
> Bruce loves Damian that's obvious but unlike Dick and Jason, Bruce wasn't the one who brought him into the Bat crime fighting World initially.


That's why I loved the Young Justice Animated series. When Wonder Woman gave him flack for bringing Dick into crime-fighting, he said it was to help him bring his parent's murderer to Justice. 

She fired back, asking if he was trying to make Dick turn out like him - and his response was "So that he wouldn't." 

Regardless of the circumstances in the beginning, Bruce should be responsible for Damian by _now_. He needs to spend more time with the kid. 

He can't just show up with a surprised Pikachu face when everything goes tits up, wondering how things got so bad.

----------


## marhawkman

> That's why I loved the Young Justice Animated series. When Wonder Woman gave him flack for bringing Dick into crime-fighting, he said it was to help him bring his parent's murderer to Justice. 
> 
> She fired back, asking if he was trying to make Dick turn out like him - and his response was "So that he wouldn't." 
> 
> Regardless of the circumstances in the beginning, Bruce should be responsible for Damian by _now_. He needs to spend more time with the kid. 
> 
> He can't just show up with a surprised Pikachu face when everything goes tits up, wondering how things got so bad.


Also Bruce should have figured out by now how much supervision Al'ghuls need... IE A LOT.  It's kinda dumb to leave Damian to his own devices.

----------


## Rac7d*

> That's why I loved the Young Justice Animated series. When Wonder Woman gave him flack for bringing Dick into crime-fighting, he said it was to help him bring his parent's murderer to Justice. 
> 
> She fired back, asking if he was trying to make Dick turn out like him - and his response was "So that he wouldn't." 
> 
> Regardless of the circumstances in the beginning, Bruce should be responsible for Damian by _now_. He needs to spend more time with the kid. 
> 
> He can't just show up with a surprised Pikachu face when everything goes tits up, wondering how things got so bad.


Catwoman said when they were engaged that she knew she would never come first in his life. It was a hard sentence to read. The animation of Batman Hush reinforced why they are so on and off becuase the love is their but his commitment to Gotham border on insane

----------


## Light of Justice

> Damn, is that... profound? Idk, it seems quite deep to me - but I'm just an uncultured cavedweller - so what do I know? XD


Well, I interpret that as "both parties insisted to be the adult one but at the same time refused to be the adult one." Sometimes I find Bruce and Damian mutual stubbornness and self-arrogance debates are quite hilarious. Like 2 bulls butting their heads on each other.

----------


## dietrich

I always found it funny that the writers for the DCAMU used the same dialogue, speech pattern, mannerisms for animated Damian as they did Bruce.

Sam Liu revealed that they were instructed them to write them [Bruce and Damian] as the same person.

That is the trick to get Damian right and his annoyance level pitch perfect. Write Bruce. His dialogue coming from a 13 year old gives you a kid you want to pinch [James Tucker's words]

----------


## Shen

> Well, I interpret that as "both parties insisted to be the adult one but at the same time refused to be the adult one." Sometimes I find Bruce and Damian mutual stubbornness and self-arrogance debates are quite hilarious. Like 2 bulls butting their heads on each other.


They are quite the pair. Master Dusk is right - with Talia and Bruce as parents, Damian is very headstrong XD

I interpreted it as Damian(10 year old Bruce, who is angry at the world) and forever 8 year old Bruce (The kid who watched his parent's die in the alley and couldn't move on)

Or is it the other way around? Idk tbh - but that was my first thought about it. Quite vague and barely makes any sense - but I saw a straw and I grabbed it.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Well, I interpret that as "both parties insisted to be the adult one but at the same time refused to be the adult one." Sometimes I find Bruce and Damian mutual stubbornness and self-arrogance debates are quite hilarious. Like 2 bulls butting their heads on each other.


I see this and just can think "I miss Alfred..." T^T

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> That's why I loved the Young Justice Animated series. When Wonder Woman gave him flack for bringing Dick into crime-fighting, he said it was to help him bring his parent's murderer to Justice. 
> 
> She fired back, asking if he was trying to make Dick turn out like him - and his response was "So that he wouldn't."


So much better than "Robins: They are my soldiers"

----------


## Fergus

> Well, I interpret that as "both parties insisted to be the adult one but at the same time refused to be the adult one." Sometimes I find Bruce and Damian mutual stubbornness and self-arrogance debates are quite hilarious. Like 2 bulls butting their heads on each other.


Just finished a re-read of Tomasi's B&R Omni and it was even more enjoyable than the 1st time around. It's one of the best volumes DC has put out in recent times.

Classic.

made me yearn for more Bruce and Damian.

----------


## Fergus

> I always found it funny that the writers for the DCAMU used the same dialogue, speech pattern, mannerisms for animated Damian as they did Bruce.
> 
> Sam Liu revealed that they were instructed them to write them [Bruce and Damian] as the same person.
> 
> That is the trick to get Damian right and his annoyance level pitch perfect. Write Bruce. His dialogue coming from a 13 year old gives you a kid you want to pinch [James Tucker's words]


I saw that interview too. It's funny to me how so many who hate on Damian when he is simply Bruce.

----------


## dietrich

> I saw that interview too. It's funny to me how so many who hate on Damian when he is simply Bruce.


Many also hate on Bruce.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Many also hate on Bruce.


Damian has had character progression since his debut. Bruce has had character regression (in other words, I'm being nice in my description of him in more recent years).

----------


## Shen

> Damian has had character progression since his debut. Bruce has had character regression (in other words, I'm being nice in my description of him in more recent years).


Oof, right in the Gary Stu Manly Power fantasy. They're trolling DC soo hard now because of the "Heroes don't do that" thing XD

----------


## Blue22

> Many also hate on Bruce.


I'm so back and forth on how I feel about Bruce. Especially in the post-New 52 era. There are times where I do genuinely like him and think he's a great character and a great hero....and then there are times where I'm actively cheering while the entire Batfamily lays into him. He's such a fucking revolving door when it comes to the way he's portrayed. I know he's, more or less, always been like that; but in these past few years (especially in the Rebirth era) it's just been grating.

The similarities to both Bruce and Talia are strong as hell in Damian. But there's enough of his own person in there for me to say that he's kinda become a better/more interesting character than both of them. Though, I might be a bit biased since the only Robin that I don't think is a better character than Bruce (anymore) is Tim. 

And...honestly, Damian would probably be a better hero (notice I didn't say "better Batman") than Bruce when he's older. 
_________________________________



Man. If only the "everything is canon" thing had happened sooner. Damian's already made "friends" with Steph and Kara. Having all four of them working off each other like this would have been a blast lol

----------


## Frontier

> I'm so back and forth on how I feel about Bruce. Especially in the post-New 52 era. There are times where I do genuinely like him and think he's a great character and a great hero....and then there are times where I'm actively cheering while the entire Batfamily lays into him. He's such a fucking revolving door when it comes to the way he's portrayed. I know he's, more or less, always been like that; but in these past few years (especially in the Rebirth era) it's just been grating.
> 
> The similarities to both Bruce and Talia are strong as hell in Damian. But there's enough of his own person in there for me to say that he's kinda become a better/more interesting character than both of them. Though, I might be a bit biased since the only Robin that I don't think is a better character than Bruce (anymore) is Tim. 
> 
> And...honestly, Damian would probably be a better hero (notice I didn't say "better Batman") than Bruce when he's older. 
> _________________________________
> 
> 
> 
> Man. If only the "everything is canon" thing had happened sooner. Damian's already made "friends" with Steph and Kara. Having all four of them working off each other like this would have been a blast lol


I usually just write off all the bad Bruce moments as being OOC or there just to stir up artificial drama.

----------


## marhawkman

> Man. If only the "everything is canon" thing had happened sooner. Damian's already made "friends" with Steph and Kara. Having all four of them working off each other like this would have been a blast lol


Hmmm this has potential for all sorts of hilarity.  What if both Spoiler and Supergirl call "Cass"?  :Stick Out Tongue:   Cassandra Sandsmark and Cassandra Cain in the same story sounds hilarious.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Hmmm this has potential for all sorts of hilarity.  What if both Spoiler and Supergirl call "Cass"?   Cassandra Sandsmark and Cassandra Cain in the same story sounds hilarious.


Well Wondergirl is more often called "Cassie", but I can see Steph called Cassandra Cain as "Cassie" too. What is the relationship between Cassie and Kara exactly? I only know that Cassie is one of Kon's best friend

----------


## CPSparkles

LOL!



By Otter

Show some respect Damian. Do you know how badass you have to be to rock green scaly leotards and still become a legend?

----------


## Blue22

> LOL!
> 
> 
> 
> By Otter
> 
> Show some respect Damian.* Do you know how badass you have to be to rock green scaly leotards and still become a legend?*


You know what? As someone who hates the original Robin suit, I can't even argue with that XD

----------


## Jackalope89

> You know what? As someone who hates the original Robin suit, I can't even argue with that XD


And it happened with 2 Robins.

----------


## marhawkman

> Well Wondergirl is more often called "Cassie", but I can see Steph called Cassandra Cain as "Cassie" too. What is the relationship between Cassie and Kara exactly? I only know that Cassie is one of Kon's best friend


I'm not sure how great of friends, but they definitely are friends.

----------


## Morgoth

So, judging by solicits, *spoilers:*
Flatline is indeed Damian's love interest.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Restingvoice

She did steal his heart

----------


## Eckri

> So, judging by solicits, *spoilers:*
> Flatline is indeed Damian's love interest.
> *end of spoilers*


Gotta link for those solicits, wanna read it

----------


## Katana500

6oqdMZkeq6pBEVBEGgQCFc-1920-80.jpg


ROBIN #7
Writer: JOSHUA WILLIAMSON
Artist: GLEB MELNIKOV
Cover: SIMONE DI MEO
Variant Cover: FRANCIS MANAPUL
$3.99 US | 32 PGS | $4.99 US VARIANT (Card Stock)
ON SALE 10/26/21

It was the smooch heard round the worldand it's the one thing Damian Wayne DIDN'T see coming his way in the Lazarus Tournament! As Robin battles for the secrets of eternal life against the deadliest killers on the planet, can hewill heDARE HEsurvivea girlfriend?


Damian defo faces the biggest challenge yet lol

----------


## Katana500

> Gotta link for those solicits, wanna read it


https://www.gamesradar.com/uk/dc-sol...-october-2021/

here you go!

----------


## Morgoth

Just want to see Bat-family reaction (and Jon as well), when he returns from deadly tournament on a distant island after being missing for months and says something like: "Oh, by the way, meet my girlfriend, she's a Lord Death sidekick, and she killed me once by literally ripping my heart from my chest, I hope you'll get along''.

----------


## Eckri

> 6oqdMZkeq6pBEVBEGgQCFc-1920-80.jpg
> 
> 
> ROBIN #7
> Writer: JOSHUA WILLIAMSON
> Artist: GLEB MELNIKOV
> Cover: SIMONE DI MEO
> Variant Cover: FRANCIS MANAPUL
> $3.99 US | 32 PGS | $4.99 US VARIANT (Card Stock)
> ...


This is Damian first smooch in the main canon. 
It was by a chick who stole his literal heart.

Everyone in the bat family had a smooch from dangerous people, so Damian joined that club.

----------


## Rac7d*

> 6oqdMZkeq6pBEVBEGgQCFc-1920-80.jpg
> 
> 
> ROBIN #7
> Writer: JOSHUA WILLIAMSON
> Artist: GLEB MELNIKOV
> Cover: SIMONE DI MEO
> Variant Cover: FRANCIS MANAPUL
> $3.99 US | 32 PGS | $4.99 US VARIANT (Card Stock)
> ...


Omg it’s happening again why am I so excited lol

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> Attachment 111542
> 
> 
> ROBIN #7
> Writer: JOSHUA WILLIAMSON
> Artist: GLEB MELNIKOV
> Cover: SIMONE DI MEO
> Variant Cover: FRANCIS MANAPUL
> $3.99 US | 32 PGS | $4.99 US VARIANT (Card Stock)
> ...


Honestly, if it's well written, I don't mind it. It's a new way of exploring Damian's character!

----------


## Drako

Damian gonna need to go outside of the family to get some tips since no one in the batfamily knows how to KEEP a girlfriend.

----------


## Restingvoice

Damian is continuing the family tradition of dating supervillains or their extensions. Bruce Selina Talia, Nightwing Defacer, Jason Rose, Red Robin Lynx, Barbara Ethan Cobblepot... Steph and Cass haven't aren't they?

----------


## Eckri

> Damian gonna need to go outside of the family to get some tips since no one in the batfamily knows how to KEEP a girlfriend.


Green Arrow and Superman it is then. Dina and Lois has been with the green archer ane blue boy for years.

----------


## Eckri

> Damian is continuing the family tradition of dating supervillains or their extensions. Bruce Selina Talia, Nightwing Defacer, Jason Rose, Red Robin Lynx, Barbara Ethan Cobblepot... Steph and Cass haven't aren't they?


And here I thought he'd break that cycle.
Man, that Wayne genes is too strong.

----------


## garazza

I was going to kick up a stink when aged up Jon would show up, but I did not expect this and I am absolutely not here for it. I hate romance and love interests and heteronormativity in my comics. I always thought that given the nature of Damian's character, he would be able to avoid heteronormativity because his character doesn't lend himself very well to "romance" and the like. I am not looking forward to this, but hopefully Williamson swerves us and it's some sort of joke where Damian and Flatline are fighting and he falls on top of her and they accidentally kiss (I have more own problems with this trope in anime/manga but it hasn't had much use here).

After a few more seconds thought, I think "the kiss around the world" is just Flatline giving Damian a kiss on the cheek for whatever reason and everybody sees the cute little moment that means nothing more than a hug or a handshake does, but because of heteronormativity everyone ribs Damian for it which flusters him.

----------


## Restingvoice

oh boy you are not reading from the right company if you hate heteronormativity

----------


## garazza

> oh boy you are not reading from the right company if you hate heteronormativity


And here I thought I found the one character that could skirt around it, but nope lol

----------


## Eckri

> I was going to kick up a stink when aged up Jon would show up, but I did not expect this and I am absolutely not here for it. I hate romance and love interests and heteronormativity in my comics. I always thought that given the nature of Damian's character, he would be able to avoid heteronormativity because his character doesn't lend himself very well to "romance" and the like. I am not looking forward to this, but hopefully Williamson swerves us and it's some sort of joke where Damian and Flatline are fighting and he falls on top of her and they accidentally kiss (I have more own problems with this trope in anime/manga but it hasn't had much use here).


This is the only time in the main canon, told in on solicit, that he has a love interest. That is bait enough, remember that Jon Kent bait in Teen Titans? Yep.

Totally calling it as a bait. They're calling it a girlfriend because Damian is so well known to can't have a romantic relationship of any kind in the main canon.

Yeah, I'm calling this a bait. And personally her and damian don't click on me.

----------


## Frontier

> Attachment 111542
> 
> 
> ROBIN #7
> Writer: JOSHUA WILLIAMSON
> Artist: GLEB MELNIKOV
> Cover: SIMONE DI MEO
> Variant Cover: FRANCIS MANAPUL
> $3.99 US | 32 PGS | $4.99 US VARIANT (Card Stock)
> ...


My romance-senses were on-point  :Stick Out Tongue: . 

At least his taste in women runs in the family...

----------


## Blue22

It's not a particular ship I would have gone with (mostly because I'm still kinda unsure on how I feel about Flatline as a character) but I don't have anything to complain about just yet. Does it feel weird, seeing Damian show any romantic interest in....well....anyone? Absolutely. Even in other continuities/media, seeing him being romantic just feels....wrong lol. 

But hey. He's a 14 year old boy. And for the past few years, he's shown more and more signs of being a lot closer to a normal kid than he'd probably care to admit. I was already proud of him when he became well adjusted enough to have genuine friends, outside of his family, so I'm equally happy that he's developed to a point where this kind of relationship would be possible. Even if it does still feel....really weird.

I guess anyone who's not a big fan of this can at least take solace in the fact that love is fickle, especially at that age, and his first one probably won't last very long.




> Yeah, I'm calling this a bait. And personally her and damian don't click on me.


While that is very true, I actually...kinda like that. It beats the depressingly predictable and dull relationship that he had with Raven in the movies. I'm always a fan of trying to make the "opposites attract" ships work. That's probably one of the biggest reasons I ship Beast Boy and Raven, or Bart Allen and Rose Wilson. Though I've accepted that the latter ship sunk YEARS ago and probably won't ever be given any kind of attention ever again.

Really my only reservation is, again, I'm unsure on how I feel about Flatline.

----------


## Frontier

> It's not a particular ship I would have gone with (mostly because I'm still kinda unsure on how I feel about Flatline as a character) but I don't have anything to complain about just yet. Does it feel weird, seeing Damian show any romantic interest in....well....anyone? Absolutely. Even in other continuities/media, seeing him being romantic just feels....wrong lol. 
> 
> But hey. He's a 14 year old boy. And for the past few years, he's shown more and more signs of being a lot closer to a normal kid than he'd probably care to admit. I was already proud of him when he became well adjusted enough to have genuine friends, outside of his family, so I'm equally happy that he's developed to a point where this kind of relationship would be possible. Even if it does still feel....really weird.
> 
> I guess anyone who's not a big fan of this can at least take solace in the fact that love is fickle, especially at that age, and his first one probably won't last very long.


Personally I feel like it's about time in his character development for stuff like this to start happening.

----------


## Eckri

> It's not a particular ship I would have gone with (mostly because I'm still kinda unsure on how I feel about Flatline as a character) but I don't have anything to complain about just yet. Does it feel weird, seeing Damian show any romantic interest in....well....anyone? Absolutely. Even in other continuities/media, seeing him being romantic just feels....wrong lol. 
> 
> But hey. He's a 14 year old boy. And for the past few years, he's shown more and more signs of being a lot closer to a normal kid than he'd probably care to admit. I was already proud of him when he became well adjusted enough to have genuine friends, outside of his family, so I'm equally happy that he's developed to a point where this kind of relationship would be possible. Even if it does still feel....really weird.
> 
> I guess anyone who's not a big fan of this can at least take solace in the fact that love is fickle, especially at that age, and his first one probably won't last very long.


Gotta agree with you there.
I could Damian portrayed as:
Friend
Big Brother
Heck even as a Step Father

But a guy who's in a relationahip? Nah. Like, serious. I do hope this is just a bait cause what he needs are friends, the relationship comes bare min.

And we alreay have robins with too many exes. Don't make Damian another.

----------


## Eckri

> Personally I feel like it's about time in his character development for stuff like this to start happening.


Damian and romance, the only way I could see it happening is that he fails and blunders at every time he tries. Then learn to improve on it.

It's like how he got his cast of friends, lot of failures but he got there.

----------


## Blue22

> the only way I could see it happening is that he fails and blunders at every time he tries. Then learn to improve on it.


That is how most romances between teenagers go. Especially with ones as....socially challenged as Damian.

I highly doubt Flatline will end up being his "Catwoman". If anything, she's just there to show that he's reached another milestone.

----------


## Morgoth

> And we alreay have robins with too many exes. Don't make Damian another.


That's why it would be more intersting, if in the matter of relationship he would be more stable than his father and brothers. Yes, it's too early to talk about it, but it would be funny in the context of how Bruce, Dick, Jason and Tim suck on this.

----------


## Frontier

> Damian and romance, the only way I could see it happening is that he fails and blunders at every time he tries. Then learn to improve on it.
> 
> It's like how he got his cast of friends, lot of failures but he got there.


Oh, I'm definitely not expecting it to go smoothly  :Stick Out Tongue: .

----------


## Eckri

> While that is very true, I actually...kinda like that. It beats the depressingly predictable and dull relationship that he had with Raven in the movies. I'm always a fan of trying to make the "opposites attract" ships work. That's probably one of the biggest reasons I ship Beast Boy and Raven, or Bart Allen and Rose Wilson. Though I've accepted that the latter ship sunk YEARS ago and probably won't ever be given any kind of attention ever again.
> 
> Really my only reservation is, again, I'm unsure on how I feel about Flatline.


With you there with opposites, last thing Damian needs is another depresso. Unfortunatelty there are none. Not unless you count that long crazy ship of Damiam/Irey West that was suddenly been revived due to that one Flash issue

----------


## dietrich

> Personally I feel like it's about time in his character development for stuff like this to start happening.


Couldn't agree more and also CALLED IT!

I'm here for Damian and Flatline. She's cheeky and have loved every panel with the two so far. Even their non verbal interactions [Amused flirty looks form Fl, Damian's death Glares, cheeky winks, showing off with the knives] are fun to watch.

I think Damian and romance works surprisingly well.

Damian and Raven in the animated movies
Damian and Kara in Injustice 2
Damian and Lexi in The Just

All crack ships that nobody saw coming and yet surprisingly sweet and somehow worked. 
Event the brief Damian and Cassie in Dceased was sweet and worked.

Damian Wayne actually can do romance and still retain his Damianness

----------


## Shen

> Couldn't agree more and also *CALLED IT!*
> 
> I'm here for Damian and Flatline. She's cheeky and have loved every panel with the two so far. Even their non verbal interactions [Amused flirty looks form Fl, Damian's death Glares, cheeky winks, showing off with the knives] are fun to watch.
> 
> I think Damian and romance works surprisingly well.
> 
> Damian and Raven in the animated movies
> Damian and Kara in Injustice 2
> Damian and Lexi in The Just
> ...


XD yeah you did. 

I'm open-minded about this, it seems like it would be a good learning experience for him at _the very least._ I've really taken a liking to Flatline as a character so far, and I think it'll be a fun little relationship to witness. 

I've also enjoyed his romantic relationships in other books and movies, and I'd love to see what will happen here.

----------


## HsssH

For me annoying thing is that we just got new female character and we are already teasing relationship. How much time had passed since Damian got there? 2 days? It just doesn't feel natural at all.

----------


## PowerPlay25

I'm not enthused about this.  I'm probably the only person in the world that wasn't impressed by Flatlines character design and her actual character is fine, if unremarkable.

I'd be fine with this being a learning experience or something similar.

But Damian has so many other relationships I would like to see further explored and fleshed out,  Bruce, Dick, Ra's, Talia, Tim, Stephanie, Cass, Barbara, Jon, Clark and I'd love to see Colin/Abuse again.  There are so many characters and character relationships that I want to see addressed or evolve.    

Any consistent Flatline is only going to make me want the other characters more.

----------


## Morgoth

I wonder, is Flatline  sticking around after tournament is over? Because it seems like next arc is in Gotham.

----------


## Light of Justice

Again not really care for romance but with Damian's character it's quite inevitable. Raven, Kara, Maps...
Just hope that they will do it better than Djinn and Emiko.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Couldn't agree more and also CALLED IT!
> 
> I'm here for Damian and Flatline. She's cheeky and have loved every panel with the two so far. Even their non verbal interactions [Amused flirty looks form Fl, Damian's death Glares, cheeky winks, showing off with the knives] are fun to watch.
> 
> I think Damian and romance works surprisingly well.
> 
> Damian and Raven in the animated movies
> Damian and Kara in Injustice 2
> Damian and Lexi in The Just
> ...


I’m surprised a new generation has latched onto Damian and raven it just goes to show how much time has gone by since then the 2003 show and the power of a consistent animated property

----------


## Rac7d*

> For me annoying thing is that we just got new female character and we are already teasing relationship. How much time had passed since Damian got there? 2 days? It just doesn't feel natural at all.


That issue is in October we have time and what’s natural on an island of resurrection?

----------


## adrikito

> Attachment 111542
> 
> 
> ROBIN #7
> Writer: JOSHUA WILLIAMSON
> Artist: GLEB MELNIKOV
> Cover: SIMONE DI MEO
> Variant Cover: FRANCIS MANAPUL
> $3.99 US | 32 PGS | $4.99 US VARIANT (Card Stock)
> ...


I never thought that I would see Damian like this in a cover.. I am following Joshua Williamson and saw this cover in his twitter.

Williamson made what Glass did not.. But it was because Glass wanted to ship his characters since the begin.


Ha. This will frustate those who ship him with Superkid. I would not care too much about this people if I did not found disturbing art with them. I do not care about see 2 guys kissing but when is more extreme I prefer not see it.





> Personally I feel like it's about time in his character development for stuff like this to start happening.


I am agree with you.. I want to see how he feels about this while this relation exists.




> I wonder, is Flatline  sticking around after tournament is over? Because it seems like next arc is in Gotham.


And??? as long as the writer and comic is the same she can continue here. Damian visit to Gotham can be a short thing and then leave again.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Why do people talk about Damian and Emiko?

----------


## Rebeca Armus

After I loved Jason x Artemis so much and this bad ending I don't want to think about the next nice couple that will blow as a bubble again =___=.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

One thing I love about Damian being a good bf is the contrast, it is so charming! Just how he is so arrogant with people but loves animals, or thinks games is a waste of time but likes Cheese Viking, or how he tries to be dark and manly and likes shoujo manga, it's like he is always suprising me... ❤ contrats are very charming...❤

----------


## adrikito

> though it also seems likely that Flatline could try to get close to him just to betray him. After all, she's a villain's sidekick - not a hero's. *This aspect is further pushed by the pair of plushes in the background of Robin and Flatline*, sitting atop previous volumes of the manga series.


Ehhhh... Who 2 plushes suggest that she can betray him??

https://screenrant.com/robin-flatlin...ver-dc-comics/

----------


## Light of Justice

> Why do people talk about Damian and Emiko?


It was kinda Percy's (TT first half writer) dream pairing, and let's just said that it didn't end well.

----------


## Rac7d*

> I wonder, is Flatline  sticking around after tournament is over? Because it seems like next arc is in Gotham.


she was the sidekick to a Gotham villain so she will come home with him

----------


## Rac7d*

> Couldn't agree more and also CALLED IT!
> 
> I'm here for Damian and Flatline. She's cheeky and have loved every panel with the two so far. Even their non verbal interactions [Amused flirty looks form Fl, Damian's death Glares, cheeky winks, showing off with the knives] are fun to watch.
> 
> I think Damian and romance works surprisingly well.
> 
> Damian and Raven in the animated movies
> Damian and Kara in Injustice 2
> Damian and Lexi in The Just
> ...


you missed on that started it all

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> It was kinda Percy's (TT first half writer) dream pairing, and let's just said that it didn't end well.


I think I read everything with them together (that is not a lot), but I don't see them as a thing, they don't talk with each other or create any connection (I think).

----------


## Shen

> I think I read everything with them together (that is not a lot), but I don't see them as a thing, they don't talk with each other or create any connection (I think).


It had the beginnings of a strong relationship, like when she gave him a kiss on the cheek and all the other Titans teased Dami. Then when she got injured and Dami visited her in hospital. 



Plus, the Emiko you see in the Dami's Teen Titans was pretty OOC (I mean, everyone was), but even then they bantered a bit (You could say every time she got angry at Djinn and Dami "Flirting", it was jealousy - though you could also say it was annoyance).

Romance at this point is really reaching (Dami is a midget who thinks love is for fools XD), but it could be a possibility in future, kind of like Dick and Artemis in the Young Justice Comics (I can't remember if it was Invasion or Outsiders).

----------


## Light of Justice

> I think I read everything with them together (that is not a lot), but I don't see them as a thing, they don't talk with each other or create any connection (I think).


Me neither but someone on DC (I think Percy himself) said that Emiko is Damian's first crush. Granted, some people also said that Kara, Steph, or Katana is Damian's first crush. I also found some people said that Colin is Damian's early crush. 
That's why I never care about romance plots in comics. Too many times they went nowhere and change depending on next writers. It happened in every relationship in comics but romance truly takes the worst of it.

(But seriously, Damian kinda always be shipped every time he was pretty much just smile or praise a girl. I know that it's so rare for him to do that but still...)

----------


## Eckri

> Me neither but someone on DC (I think Percy himself) said that Emiko is Damian's first crush. Granted, some people also said that Kara, Steph, or Katana is Damian's first crush. I also found some people said that Colin is Damian's early crush. 
> That's why I never care about romance plots in comics. Too many times they went nowhere and change depending on next writers. It happened in every relationship in comics but romance truly takes the worst of it.
> 
> (But seriously, Damian kinda always be shipped every time he was pretty much just smile or praise a girl. I know that it's so rare for him to do that but still...)


Don't forget that one time, that one time, when Damian actually was interested in a girl was in Battle of the Cowl. But we all know that was so OOC. 

Kinda get yah, pretty much the kid is shipped to a girl whenever he's in close proximity of interactions with a person. 
Think it all boils down to that for so long the kid hasn't had a love interest like his dad and brothers:
Bruce -> Selina (plus countless others)
Dick -> Babs & Starfire (The actual main contenders)
Jason -> Artemis (I don't know about Jason Pre-New 52 if he had any, but early New 52 he dated some Assassin chick)
Tim -> Stephanie and Jubilee (Yeah from the X-Men, remember that cross over event)

and then you Damian for the longest time who hasn't had any, which gives  it free pickings for anyone to ship him with.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Me neither but someone on DC (I think Percy himself) said that Emiko is Damian's first crush. Granted, some people also said that Kara, Steph, or Katana is Damian's first crush. I also found some people said that Colin is Damian's early crush. 
> That's why I never care about romance plots in comics. Too many times they went nowhere and change depending on next writers. It happened in every relationship in comics but romance truly takes the worst of it.
> 
> (But seriously, Damian kinda always be shipped every time he was pretty much just smile or praise a girl. I know that it's so rare for him to do that but still...)


Damian took a girl on a Batmobile joyride in Tony Daniel's Battle for The Cowl.
Damian asked if Katana's seeing someone in Dustin Nguyen's Street of Gotham after they agreed to let her watched over Hush while he's acting as Bruce Wayne to cover the time Bruce went missing in time.
Dick teased that Damian had a crush on Supergirl at the ending of Joshua Williamson's Superman/Batman feature of them. It's unclear on Damian's part, he just acknowledged that Kara's an adequate partner. 
Colin's just fan interpretation since he's the first friend his age. The closest thing is Dustin Nguyen who seems aware of the pairing decided to have Damian presented a flower bouquet to Colin on Valentine's Day that Colin teased him about (but they both know it's meant for Colin to give to his orphanage nuns)

Ben Percy was writing Emiko in Green Arrow, but did he write Teen Titans? There was an interview on Newsarama mentioning that crush, but I don't remember the writer.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Don't forget that one time, that one time, when Damian actually was interested in a girl was in Battle of the Cowl. But we all know that was so OOC. 
> 
> Kinda get yah, pretty much the kid is shipped to a girl whenever he's in close proximity of interactions with a person. 
> Think it all boils down to that for so long the kid hasn't had a love interest like his dad and brothers:
> Bruce -> Selina (plus countless others)
> Dick -> Babs & Starfire (The actual main contenders)
> Jason -> Artemis (I don't know about Jason Pre-New 52 if he had any, but early New 52 he dated some Assassin chick)
> Tim -> Stephanie and Jubilee (Yeah from the X-Men, remember that cross over event)
> 
> and then you Damian for the longest time who hasn't had any, which gives  it free pickings for anyone to ship him with.


definite love interest didn't save them from shipper and inconsistent writers
Bruce -> Selina (plus countless others) = "the countless others" part is important

Dick -> Babs & Starfire (The actual main contenders) = I heard that now Babs is Dick's girlfriend in Nightwing and Kori is Dick's girlfriend is Titan. Either they ignore their fellow writers for the sake of ship or they tried to pull two-timer Dick. Again. 

Jason -> Artemis (I don't know about Jason Pre-New 52 if he had any, but early New 52 he dated some Assassin chick) = Pretty sure she brother zoned him, and on RHATO first half he was paired with Kori. One time with Babs, on one occasion with Dinah (man Jason is the wildest victim of romance comic inconsistency imo) 

Tim -> Stephanie and Jubilee (Yeah from the X-Men, remember that cross over event) = Now Tim broke up with Steph for still unidentified reason and embark journey to delve in his sexuality

I guess I should be glad that in Damian they can be played as puppy crush.

----------


## Rac7d*

> definite love interest didn't save them from shipper and inconsistent writers
> Bruce -> Selina (plus countless others) = "the countless others" part is important
> 
> Dick -> Babs & Starfire (The actual main contenders) = I heard that now Babs is Dick's girlfriend in Nightwing and Kori is Dick's girlfriend is Titan. Either they ignore their fellow writers for the sake of ship or they tried to pull two-timer Dick. Again. 
> 
> Jason -> Artemis (I don't know about Jason Pre-New 52 if he had any, but early New 52 he dated some Assassin chick) = Pretty sure she brother zoned him, and on RHATO first half he was paired with Kori. One time with Babs, on one occasion with Dinah (man Jason is the wildest victim of romance comic inconsistency imo) 
> 
> Tim -> Stephanie and Jubilee (Yeah from the X-Men, remember that cross over event) = Now Tim broke up with Steph for still unidentified reason and embark journey to delve in his sexuality
> 
> I guess I should be glad that in Damian they can be played as puppy crush.


Jason consistent love interest is rose Wilson 
TItans , red hood and the outlaws, Married in deceased and flirting again in death metal. She is his one

----------


## KrustyKid

> Jason consistent love interest is rose Wilson 
> TItans , red hood and the outlaws, Married in deceased and flirting again in death metal. She is his one


Artemis is far superior as his love interest.

As for Damian and Flatline. I'm game for it. Interested to see how it is handled.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Artemis is far superior as his love interest.
> 
> As for Damian and Flatline. I'm game for it. Interested to see how it is handled.


Much like starfire she breaks the bat world storylines so don’t expect them to ever pan out

----------


## Jackalope89

> Much like starfire she breaks the bat world storylines so don’t expect them to ever pan out


They did at the end of the Rebirth Outlaws series, but it also ended amicably at least.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Damian took a girl on a Batmobile joyride in Tony Daniel's Battle for The Cowl.
> Damian asked if Katana's seeing someone in Dustin Nguyen's Street of Gotham after they agreed to let her watched over Hush while he's acting as Bruce Wayne to cover the time Bruce went missing in time.
> Dick teased that Damian had a crush on Supergirl at the ending of Joshua Williamson's Superman/Batman feature of them. It's unclear on Damian's part, he just acknowledged that Kara's an adequate partner. 
> Colin's just fan interpretation since he's the first friend his age. The closest thing is Dustin Nguyen who seems aware of the pairing decided to have Damian presented a flower bouquet to Colin on Valentine's Day that Colin teased him about (but they both know it's meant for Colin to give to his orphanage nuns)
> 
> Ben Percy was writing Emiko in Green Arrow, but did he write Teen Titans? There was an interview on Newsarama mentioning that crush, but I don't remember the writer.


Eh, I'd toss out Battle for the Cowl as a whole. Damian, Jason, and even Tim to an extent, were badly OOC for the sake of making Dick look good.

----------


## Aahz

> TItans , red hood and the outlaws, Married in deceased and flirting again in death metal. She is his one


Also in Future State, oddly enough they are hardly ever together in one comic in the main continuity/timeline.
He also dated Essence and Isabel Ardila (who now shares a body with Essence).

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> It had the beginnings of a strong relationship, like when she gave him a kiss on the cheek and all the other Titans teased Dami. Then when she got injured and Dami visited her in hospital. 
> 
> 
> 
> Plus, the Emiko you see in the Dami's Teen Titans was pretty OOC (I mean, everyone was), but even then they bantered a bit (You could say every time she got angry at Djinn and Dami "Flirting", it was jealousy - though you could also say it was annoyance).
> 
> Romance at this point is really reaching (Dami is a midget who thinks love is for fools XD), but it could be a possibility in future, kind of like Dick and Artemis in the Young Justice Comics (I can't remember if it was Invasion or Outsiders).


I didn't see this visiting Emiko in hospital! This IS sweet!

*I personally didn't see this as jealously, but make sense, could be.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I hate Damian in and before Battle of Cowl.
And what is that girl of the car problem!?!? Damian was 10! No matter if it was Batmobile or whatever, why someone can write a teenager getting impressed with a 10 years old car? You can say "Damian looks old", how much? 12??
Thanks they change the character

----------


## marhawkman

> definite love interest didn't save them from shipper and inconsistent writers
> Bruce -> Selina (plus countless others) = "the countless others" part is important


In Batman's case he doesn't properly have a single love interest.  Catwoman is a kinda new thing really.  Just look at the movies. How many love interests has Batman had in the live action or animated movies?  Funny thing is... as many as there are... almost all of them were seen in the comics FIRST.  Notable exceptions include Andrea Beaumont and Chase Meridian.  They're major characters... NOT seen in comic prior to film.

Which is seemingly why the Bat-writers went with Talia... Bruce doesn't HAVE any real romantic partners.

----------


## KrustyKid

> Much like starfire she breaks the bat world storylines so dont expect them to ever pan out


Jason and Artemis were actually built up. Rose/Jason is tumblr-fanfiction levels when it comes to pairings. No true buildup, far from organic. Rose's big sister relationship with Damian is far greater than anything her and Jason have shown to have. There is actually chemistry there that wasn't forced. I could even see a Damian/Rose at some point when Damian gets older.

With Jason and Artemis, it simply felt natural with what lead to their connection, instead of just 'hey look, this is the pairing'. Which is why I find Jason/Artemis to be dangerously superior.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Jason and Artemis were actually built up. Rose/Jason is tumblr-fanfiction levels when it comes to pairings. No true buildup, far from organic. Rose's big sister relationship with Damian is far greater than anything her and Jason have shown to have. There is actually chemistry there that wasn't forced. I could even see a Damian/Rose at some point when Damian gets older.
> 
> With Jason and Artemis, it simply felt natural with what lead to their connection, instead of just 'hey look, this is the pairing'. Which is why I find Jason/Artemis to be dangerously superior.


Doesn’t matter she can’t come home with him and that’s basicly it. 
Their reaction to Harley Quinn showed how sfar apart they are, Gotham would be so trivial to her

----------


## Rac7d*

> I hate Damian in and before Battle of Cowl.
> And what is that girl of the car problem!?!? Damian was 10! No matter if it was Batmobile or whatever, why someone can write a teenager getting impressed with a 10 years old car? You can say "Damian looks old", how much? 12??
> Thanks they change the character


Lol that girl died and was never mentioned again

----------


## KrustyKid

> Doesnt matter* she cant come home* with him and thats basicly it. 
> Their reaction to Harley Quinn showed how sfar apart they are, Gotham would be so trivial to her


Jason isn't strictly tied to Gotham. So that isn't a problem :Cool:

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Lol that girl died and was never mentioned again


?? She didn't died, did she??

----------


## Drako

> ?? She didn't died, did she??


It's heavily implied that Killer Croc ate her.

----------


## Jackalope89

> It's heavily implied that Killer Croc ate her.


Yeah, Babs got her killed.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Yeah, Babs got her killed.


Babs as if

----------


## Rac7d*

> Jason isn't strictly tied to Gotham. So that isn't a problem


Yes he is, no matter how far he goes he will come back to Gotham, if Bruce needs him he will come back
And of for some crazy reason the Batman IP was sold he would go with it

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Yes he is, no matter how far he goes he will come back to Gotham, if Bruce needs him he will come back
> And of for some crazy reason the Batman IP was sold he would go with it


Maybe, but there is a comic with Dick married with Star Fire with a family innnn Gotham, it isn't impossible write a comic with Jason and Artemis really together with or with a family, can't not be main story or canon, but enough for meee, I can't hold myself about thinking if they would have red hair kids, black hair kids or bothhh <3
*and good parent Jason Todd, I would enjoy this

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Babs as if


I don't doubt, I just can't like this story.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Babs as if


Babs launched her out of the Batmobile, strapped to a seat, and we see Killer Croc shortly after with one of her shoes in mouth and saying something about just having a snack.

While not intentionally getting the girl killed, she was indirectly the cause.

----------


## KrustyKid

> Yes he is, no matter how far he goes he will come back to Gotham, if Bruce needs him he will come back
> And of for some crazy reason the Batman IP was sold he would go with it


And she'll be right there with him

maxresdefault.jpg

----------


## Light of Justice

> Babs launched her out of the Batmobile, strapped to a seat, and we see Killer Croc shortly after with one of her shoes in mouth and saying something about just having a snack.
> 
> While not intentionally getting the girl killed, she was indirectly the cause.


I think it was intended to be a joke moment, but wtf (actually, whole BfTC can be summarized with wtf)

----------


## KrustyKid

> I think it was intended to be a joke moment, but wtf (actually, whole BfTC can be summarized with wtf)


You're certainly right about that. There were a lot of crazy moments

----------


## dietrich

> I never thought that I would see Damian like this in a cover.. I am following Joshua Williamson and saw this cover in his twitter.
> 
> Williamson made what Glass did not.. But it was because Glass wanted to ship his characters since the begin.
> 
> 
> Ha. This will frustate those who ship him with Superkid. I would not care too much about this people if I did not found disturbing art with them. I do not care about see 2 guys kissing but when is more extreme I prefer not see it.


Glass wasn't interested in shipping. He cared about launching his original Character. Crush. The Duration of his run all but 2 of the promotional interviews where focused on selling Crush.

Man was trying to get paid. 

The thing is shippers are EXTREMELY important to building/ramping up a character's presence on the internet.

Damian's comics ain't doing shit. He NEEDS as many tweens and teens yapping about him. Creating awareness and visibility amongst the only market that actually matters.

The general non comic reading masses.

Shippers help boost a character's online profile by creating fan made content, merch and creati9ng discourse so hopefully Jon and Damian shipper don't feel discouraged.

I want Damian to keep growing in popularity. 
It's clear that even with Damian a rarity in comics [a Popular character of colour in comics who managed to gain and maintain mainstream success] There are those behind the scenes who are willing to throw him under the bus for a whiter, less profitable model.

Damian needs as many fans as he can backing him to counter the power wielded by entitled fanboy writers.

As annoying as shippers can be they help make up the numbers.

As for the Underage shipping/content. That aspect of fandom predates Damian and Jon sadly. Just block that sort of content that should ensure you aren't confronted with upsetting images

----------


## dietrich

> XD yeah you did. 
> 
> I'm open-minded about this, it seems like it would be a good learning experience for him at _the very least._ I've really taken a liking to Flatline as a character so far, and I think it'll be a fun little relationship to witness. 
> 
> I've also enjoyed his romantic relationships in other books and movies, and I'd love to see what will happen here.


Same.

For the longest time I saw Damian as the sort to end up an 'Old Maid living with his Cats'.
I couldn't and never see him as the type to do relationships.

However I've been pleasantly surprised each time and want to see that side of him explored more.

Heck even Robzarro was a delight.

----------


## dietrich

> I hate Damian in and before Battle of Cowl.
> And what is that girl of the car problem!?!? Damian was 10! No matter if it was Batmobile or whatever, why someone can write a teenager getting impressed with a 10 years old car? You can say "Damian looks old", how much? 12??
> Thanks they change the character


Why do you hate Damian before Battle for the Cowl?
That's exactly the type of thing that impresses some teenagers.
Damian wasn't changed after Battle of the cowl. He was writing by a writer who wasn't very familiar with the character so made him reg teen.

Damian was just written out of character during Battle for the Cowl

----------


## Eckri

> The thing is shippers are EXTREMELY important to building/ramping up a character's presence on the internet.
> 
> Damian's comics ain't doing shit. He NEEDS as many tweens and teens yapping about him. Creating awareness and visibility amongst the only market that actually matters.
> 
> The general non comic reading masses.
> 
> Shippers help boost a character's online profile by creating fan made content, merch and creati9ng discourse so hopefully Jon and Damian shipper don't feel discouraged.
> 
> Damian needs as many fans as he can backing him to counter the power wielded by entitled fanboy writers.
> ...


Truth.

I may not view the Raven/Damian pairing in favorable light, but the fanarts of them do bring attention to a lot of people. Along with the Jon/Damian shippers. 
People may not like the general overview on shipping but it does bring attention. Out of context fanart, sparking curiosity, and actually gets people in.

The character is still young compared to Dick's legacy, Jason's comeback from the dead, and Tim's generation that still shadows him. He's slowly getting some foot hold in his recent comic.

Damian really needs a good foundational template to be portrayed outside his comics. 
We all know pretty much know that not everyone is going to read a one, or ten issues about Damian just to change their mind he isn't a 24/7 brat. 

Injustice being one them, man the games and comics really contrast there.  Hopefully his portrayal in a future Young Justice season may be more favorable.

----------


## adrikito

> Glass wasn't interested in shipping. He cared about launching his original Character. Crush. The Duration of his run all but 2 of the promotional interviews where focused on selling Crush.
> 
> Man was trying to get paid. 
> 
> The thing is shippers are EXTREMELY important to building/ramping up a character's presence on the internet.
> 
> Damian's comics ain't doing shit. He NEEDS as many tweens and teens yapping about him. Creating awareness and visibility amongst the only market that actually matters.
> 
> The general non comic reading masses.
> ...


Yeah... It was obvious how much interested was in Crush..

How crazy is the ships thing. 

DC creating more and more Supersons volumes only makes them continue with this. Nobody would stop them as long as DC continues with that comic. 

*Something that for one part I can not understand.* I heard that DC continues adding these 2 grandsons... *How they think that these Grandsons existence is possible if they did not married women and both had children from the opposite genre?*  :Confused: 



*What annoys me is that even in that Williamson tweet about Damian and Flatline they appeared to bother.* 

4 comments were about that ship.. One asking to make Damian BI to make the S.kid ship possible later.. and Talking about ships I remembered something.. That Bat-Character rule that they can´t end with people with Superpowers. lol. That is against Williamson and S.kid one.


Grow in popularity??? Is not enough popular?? Despite according how Williamson makes his work he could maybe turn in someone even more popular.


It seems that the only way to block that(in deviantart) is block the users. Sadly then appear new ones.. In internet in general is harder avoid this.. Unless you have one safe configuration.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Why do you hate Damian before Battle for the Cowl?
> That's exactly the type of thing that impresses some teenagers.
> Damian wasn't changed after Battle of the cowl. He was writing by a writer who wasn't very familiar with the character so made him reg teen.
> 
> Damian was just written out of character during Battle for the Cowl


Maybe it could impress a teenager, but the way it was wrote looks not well done, it's more my opinion.

I said this before, but maybe 1 year ago, Damian was a coward Don Juan, pretending to be better than he know he was.
He was more stubborn and he way of speak was totally different than after Battle of Cowl.

It's like comparing Damian of movies (skilled, stubborn, cool brat) and Damian of Harley Quinn show (not skilled, stubborn x2 brat).

(***I love see he in Harley, it is a comedy, after all, everybody there is a parody)

----------


## dietrich

> Yeah... It was obvious how much interested was in Crush..
> 
> How crazy is the ships thing. 
> 
> DC creating more and more Supersons volumes only makes them continue with this. Nobody would stop them as long as DC continues with that comic. 
> 
> *Something that for one part I can not understand.* I heard that DC continues adding these 2 grandsons... *How they think that these Grandsons existence is possible if they did not married women and both had children from the opposite genre?* 
> 
> 
> ...


The truth is that even if tomorrow writes a story where Shoots Jon and impregnates all the woman in the DCU Fans who like the idea of the supersons as a couple will still ship them.

Look at Bruce and Clark, Tim and Jason or even better Dick and Bruce. These are couples that have never be a thing, can never be a thing but they are sill very popular pairings.

Damian isn't popular enough to where he is 'safe' from favouritism. He needs strong main stream support that keeps him an asset to the parent company.

I naively thought that with Diversity being such a hot button issue that Damian might be affording some protection.


DC's not going to fuck with a successful character of colour right?

----------


## dietrich

Double post

----------


## Eckri

> The truth is that even if tomorrow writes a story where Shoots Jon and impregnates all the woman in the DCU Fans who like the idea of the supersons as a couple will still ship them.
> 
> Look at Bruce and Clark, Tim and Jason or even better Dick and Bruce. These are couples that have never be a thing, can never be a thing but they are sill very popular pairings.
> 
> Damian still isn't popular enough to where he is 'safe' from favouritism. He needs strong main stream support that keeps him an asset to the parent company.


What the hell? Some people actually shipped Bruce and Dick...

I get why people shipped Bruce and Clark, and a little a idea why Tim and Jason. 

But Bruce and Dick? Man I thought everyone who shipped them was just doing the ole Batman and Robin are gay jokes since like the beginning, the same joke that caused the creation of Batwoman and Bat-girl, not actually serious. 

On the other hand, Damian being excluded from favouritism is a point. I think whenever a writer needs a bratty/annoying/evil Robin they can just chuck in Damian for it. The recent character regression shows it, but hopefully that'll change in some near future. His presence in main stream is still small compared to Dick, Jason, and Tim. Some positive thoughts that when Damian gets involved in another media outside the comics, he'll gain positive rep.

----------


## garazza

> In other news, Bleeding Cool apparently has information about Jon and Damian in 5G that they'll release the same way they did the timeline: https://twitter.com/richjohnston/sta...71681798791169


Posting this here from the Jon Kent thread.

----------


## Morgoth

It's even scary to imagine what these plans were.
But interesting.

----------


## dietrich

> What the hell? Some people actually shipped Bruce and Dick...
> 
> I get why people shipped Bruce and Clark, and a little a idea why Tim and Jason. 
> 
> But Bruce and Dick? Man I thought everyone who shipped them was just doing the ole Batman and Robin are gay jokes since like the beginning, the same joke that caused the creation of Batwoman and Bat-girl, not actually serious. 
> 
> On the other hand, Damian being excluded from favouritism is a point. I think whenever a writer needs a bratty/annoying/evil Robin they can just chuck in Damian for it. The recent character regression shows it, but hopefully that'll change in some near future. His presence in main stream is still small compared to Dick, Jason, and Tim. Some positive thoughts that when Damian gets involved in another media outside the comics, he'll gain positive rep.


No, people really be out here shipping Bruce with his kids. Canon be damned.

Damian is a divisive character who already gets a lot of vocal hate so welcome any positive attention/content to help drown out the haters.

Luckily there's a variety of Damian focused content out there so one can ignore what they don't support.

----------


## dietrich

> Posting this here from the Jon Kent thread.


Thanks for this @garazza

Finally we get to find out they planned for Damian. The question of where was Damian is finally answered.

I'm curious and nervous.

----------


## Morgoth

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/dami...g-dc-universe/



> Which also would have put Jonathan Kent at odds with his best friend, Damian Wayne. Who was not the new Batman, Luke Fox was. And yes, back then, it was going to be Luke Fox and not Tim Fox, just as we originally heard. Damian Wayne was instead echoing the actions of his grandfather instead, Ra's Ah Ghul, accomplishing everything Ghul failed at, and in the process becoming the new Big Bad of the DC Universe. And with Jonathan Kent in direct opposition to his former best friend, with the comparison made internally at DC Comics that Damian would be Magneto to Jonathan Kent's Professor X. And another example of Dan DiDio's DC Comics trying to mirror and match aspects of the Marvel Universe. Damian Wayne would be remaking a world without borders, alongside the Leviathan group, hating the Luke Fox Batman as a pretender to Bruce Wayne's name, with Luke Fox not trusting Jonathan Kent because of his previous relationship with Damian Wayne.


Thank God this shit is cancelled.

----------


## Astralabius

> It's even scary to imagine what these plans were.
> But interesting.


Williamson had pretty much already confirmed that he was going to be a villain in 5g. According to bleedingcool he was going to be THE villain. Ra's Al Ghul 2.0.

----------


## garazza

> Williamson had pretty much already confirmed that he was going to be a villain in 5g. According to bleedingcool he was going to be THE villain. Ra's Al Ghul 2.0.


With this added context, Williamson's Robin is quite literally the definition of "Fuck that shit."

I mean, like wow, no wonder Tomasi left DC.

----------


## charliehustle415

> With this added context, Williamson's Robin is quite literally the definition of "Fuck that shit."
> 
> I mean, like wow, no wonder Tomasi left DC.


All of that wonderful characterization that Tomasi did was amazing, I can't believe they were going to make Damian be the Demon's Head.

----------


## Blue22

Oh that is just all kinds of "FUCK THIS SHIT!"

I'm not usually one to be thankful for someone's firing but I'm not really seeing a downside to Didio no longer being here.

----------


## Morgoth

And all of that explains Damian's absence in Future State. They completely cut this storyline, but, I guess, they didn't manage to figure out something else.

----------


## Jackalope89

> And all of that explains Damian's absence in Future State. They completely cut this storyline, but, I guess, they didn't manage to figure out something else.


Probably for the better.

At least Jason's Future State Storyline is pretty decent. So I have that to fall back onto.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

Honestly, this doesn't surprises me at all, but it makes me really sad. I'm really glad for what we have today in Robin (2021).

----------


## Drako

> https://bleedingcool.com/comics/dami...g-dc-universe/
> 
> Thank God this shit is cancelled.


It lines up with the Hitler comments from Legion of SH

----------


## InfamousBG

Have not posted in many years but I just picked up the current new issues of Robin...and I love it so far.

----------


## Eckri

Batman 666, Future State, and let's count Batman Beyond considering it is similar to Future State. 

Man Damian can't a break on writers on what his supposed to be in the future. From the Hitler comments, and the last TT run we were all expecting that he was going to go all Demon's Head. Luckily that didn't happen, still. 

Makes you wonder if they progress Damian enough in the future, what's his next thing going to be.
The only options that really pick up interest is him taking over the League of Assassins. Unless he's going to be the Robin forever.

----------


## Astralabius

> Batman 666, Future State, and let's count Batman Beyond considering it is similar to Future State. 
> 
> Man Damian can't a break on writers on what his supposed to be in the future. From the Hitler comments, and the last TT run we were all expecting that he was going to go all Demon's Head. Luckily that didn't happen, still. 
> 
> Makes you wonder if they progress Damian enough in the future, what's his next thing going to be.
> The only options that really pick up interest is him taking over the League of Assassins. Unless he's going to be the Robin forever.


Tim managed to stay 16/17 for like two decades and we still have no confirmation that he's not a teenager anymore, so I don't see DC making Damian old enough that he has to pick up a new role/can take over the league of assassins anytime soon.
Escpecially considering that 5G (which would have done that) met so much resistance inside DC that Didio got fired, 5G was scrapped and Damian wasn't even in Future State. The writers didn't want 5G and a lot of people seem to agree. Even the most positive opinions I've seen online  were along the line of "maybe it would have worked as an elseworlds, but not as main continuity"

If we ever reach that point in time the DC universe might look completely different from how it is now. A story might be so good and well received that it opens completely new doors for the character.  Or Damian might end up getting erased after DC's next reboot or the reboot after if they have no plans for him anymore. Kids of superheroes have a long history of being killed off or getting erased.

----------


## Astralabius

> All of that wonderful characterization that Tomasi did was amazing, I can't believe they were going to make Damian be the Demon's Head.


I don't get DC's obsession with making Damian evil either. I think it's a pretty boring concept. Assassin child learning what it means to be a hero and trying to become a better person and eventually he's going to succeed will always be more appealing to me than "I couldn't escape my evil upbringing so now I'm going to become a bad Hitler allegory purely so the people that never had to deal with the bullshit I grew up with have someone to fight against to show off how good they are"

Who wants to bet they would have absolved Bruce of all the blame for Damian turning out like this and that Luke Fox/Tim Fox (or whoever would have picked up the mantle, I don't care) would have absolutely humiliated Damian to show how "Batman is not a birthright, it has to be earned" or some tired bullshit like that?

----------


## adrikito

> https://bleedingcool.com/comics/dami...g-dc-universe/
> 
> Thank God this shit is cancelled.


WTF is this SHIT? Damian was not in Future State for this?

----------


## Rac7d*

Wow did do is a monster he really beloved people can’t escape their destiny this is sickening

----------


## Shen

I always wanted a Damian as Ra's al Ghul storyline - but only as an Elseworld or something. 

*This* flaming dumpster fire was definitely not something I would've wanted to see in main continuity. Anyone can see how hard the kid battles against his upbringing - and to just make him lose that battle and run back to the Dark Side is insulting.

----------


## Godlike13

Didn’t we already figure out that was the plan. I remember saying I thought he was gonna be the Magistrate, cause they were obviously leading to him being a big bad for their 5G new legacy picks. Now he wasn’t the Magistrate but it was clear they were building him to be something along those lines. Its easy to get what they were doing. It’s dumb, and a waste of Damian, but it wasn’t about Damian. It’s about what Damian as bad guy can do for the 5G picks, and how triumphing over him and his legacy could help substantiate them.

----------


## adrikito

> I always wanted a Damian as Ra's al Ghul storyline - but only as an Elseworld or something. 
> .


Is not what we had in Batman Beyond?
batmanbeyond damian ra´s.jpg

----------


## Morgoth

By the way, I remember Bendis stated, that Damian was supposed to be a big part of original Checkmate story, so, it seems like it's one the reasons why they had to delay and rewrite it.



> Didn’t we already figure out that was the plan. I remember saying I thought he was gonna be the Magistrate, cause they were obviously leading to him being a big bad for their 5G new legacy picks. Now he wasn’t the Magistrate but it was clear they were building him to be something along those lines. Its easy to get what they were doing. It’s dumb, and a waste of Damian, but it wasn’t about Damian. It’s about what Damian as bad guy can do for the 5G picks, and how triumphing over him and his legacy could help substantiate them.


I think Magistrate is some sort of his replacement, Tynion mentioned, that he created it for Future State and Infinity Frontier.

----------


## Godlike13

And also, an adult Damian as a sudo Magneto type isn’t necessarily even the worse idea. With the proper motivations behind it they could make that work with out completely throwing away the Damian we know. An adult Damian doesn’t have to agree with his father and follow in his exact path or way of doing things. Like he thought he wanted as a child. And the same is true with his mother and grandfather. He doesn’t have to agree with everything about them and how they do things, but at the same time he doesn’t need to disagree with all that either. Problem is when their motivations with him become about getting others over, and their idea of a him as a Magneto type turns into an evil bad guy compared to Hitler.

----------


## Shen

> And also, an adult Damian as a sudo Magneto type isn’t necessarily even the worse idea. With the proper motivations behind it they could make that work with out completely throwing away the Damian we know. An adult Damian doesn’t have to agree with his father and follow in his exact path or way of doing thing. Like he thought he wanted as a child. And the same is true with his mother and grandfather. He doesn’t have to agree with everything about them and how they do things, but at the same time he doesn’t need to disagree with all that either.* Problem is when their motivations with him become about getting others over, and their idea of a him as a Magneto type turns into an evil bad guy compared to Hitler*.


That's what irks me. I don't trust DC enough to portray him as someone like Magneto.

The concept is growing on me, I like the different conflicts that are possible - except the part I'm sure would've been canon (Jace/Tim Fox vs Ra's al Damian - and 'Putting Damian in his place') 

In fact, I've been waiting weeks for a specific fanfiction Author to publish a story were Damian takes over the LoA and redefines what it means to be Ra's. I think he'll be of more use to the world with the goal of saving the earth with the considerable resources of the league. I just don't like Di Dio's version of it.

----------


## Shen

> Is not what we had in Batman Beyond?
> batmanbeyond damian ra´s.jpg


Yupp, but I wanted to see it unfold from Damian's POV. What were his thoughts, choices, sacrifices etc. I wanted to see it more in-depth. 

I loved Beyond because of Damian in it, but I'm greedy - I wanted more XD

----------


## HsssH

I wonder how long ago was this planned? Looking back, everything since Rebirth kinds fits this direction, no? Damian thinks that Bruce's methods don't work and starts his Teen Titans run where he imprisons villains. Eventually he kills and falls out with Bruce for good, even renounces Robin's title. On the other side he forms a close friendship with Jon, that ends up being "broken" due to Jon's age up.

I'm not a big fan of the concept, but... it certainly would feel different and new instead of doing another round of redemption like we have now.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

When I think about Damian going back to LoA I think it can happens just because he already has nothing in Gotham, I don't want this to happens, but what Damian got by staying with the good guys? For me Bruce doing Fox the new Batman could be the last drop. Also I think Damian can't see he can be whatever he wants, it's "I want my father approvals so bad, but if I don't, get my oooonly option is staying  with the League", and create a new identity as Dick or Jason did for example is out of menu.
*it was what happened in movie animations, without Bruce, Dick and Alfred he went to LoA, in place of stay with the other heroes in EUA.

----------


## Astralabius

> I wonder how long ago was this planned? Looking back, everything since Rebirth kinds fits this direction, no? Damian thinks that Bruce's methods don't work and starts his Teen Titans run where he imprisons villains. Eventually he kills and falls out with Bruce for good, even renounces Robin's title. On the other side he forms a close friendship with Jon, that ends up being "broken" due to Jon's age up.
> 
> I'm not a big fan of the concept, but... it certainly would feel different and new instead of doing another round of redemption like we have now.


I don't think this was the plan at the start of Rebirth in 2016, the Rebirth branding ended in 2018 when Didio took over and that was the time a lot of things went wrong with the batfamily. In just a few months Bruce beat Jason half to death, Damian got his Suicide Squad for children which was just a ploy to kick him out of the Robin mantle and to make him a villain and of course we got our beloved Ric Grayson. Pretty sure Glass confirmed at some point that he had been told how Damian was supposed to end up before getting the book and that he wrote his story with that goal in mind, so this was probably planned in 2018.

I don't think it would be all that exciting. We had tons of evil Batmen in recent years. Ra's has been around since the 70s and DC hasn't written him all that well for a long time now. Combining those two things and putting Damian's name on it is not gonna make it new. The story would have probably started with Damian already having found a way to be Ra's 2.0 but actually successful without ever exploring how that happened and then DC would have jumped straight into Damian being a tyrant for Jon and Luke/Tim to beat.
DC hasn't published anything in recent years that would make me believe that they could pull this off without completely ruining everything that was great about the character.

----------


## Astralabius

> When I think about Damian going back to LoA I think it can happens just because he already has nothing in Gotham, I don't want this to happens, but what Damian got by staying with the good guys? For me Bruce doing Fox the new Batman could be the last drop. Also I think Damian can't see he can be whatever he wants, it's "I want my father approvals so bad, but if I don't, get my oooonly option is staying  with the League", and create a new identity as Dick or Jason did for example is out of menu.
> *it was what happened in movie animations, without Bruce, Dick and Alfred he went to LoA, in place of stay with the other heroes in EUA.


It has been some time since I followed Williamson's interviews since I simply can't get into his writing and thus don't like the Robin book, but last time I checked he said Damian would return to Gotham after Fear State, that he would be mainly focused on his father and that there is no reason for Damian to interact with Tim Fox right out the gate. Make of that what you will.

He also said in another interview that Damian would be part of the batfamily again and honestly, I don't see what's wrong with just letting Damian be Robin and go on missions with his family members for a change. Just let him do regular hero missions for one or two short arcs before worrying about his distant future for the nth time. Let Damian exist in the present.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I don't think this was the plan at the start of Rebirth in 2016, the Rebirth branding ended in 2018 when Didio took over and that was the time a lot of things went wrong with the batfamily. In just a few months Bruce beat Jason half to death, Damian got his Suicide Squad for children which was just a ploy to kick him out of the Robin mantle and to make him a villain and of course we got our beloved Ric Grayson. Pretty sure Glass confirmed at some point that he had been told how Damian was supposed to end up before getting the book and that he wrote his story with that goal in mind, so this was probably planned in 2018.


Just thinking why Jace Fox is the one to be Batman in Jon's side when Dick, Jason, and Tim exist, this passage made me realized how Batfamily totally got fucked up after No Justice.

----------


## Eckri

> I I don't see what's wrong with just letting Damian be Robin and go on missions with his family members for a change. Just let him do regular hero missions for one or two short arcs before worrying about his distant future for the nth time. Let Damian exist in the present.


Honestly, that time with the Arkham Knight story with Damian actually being Batman's sidekick was pretty nice. 

There really needs more Batman and Robin team ups. Along with him hanging out with the Bat family more.

But hey, the issue 5 of Robin is going to give us all the robins back together. The four robins wanting to bring Damian back to Gotham, the kid refuses and turns into a rumble.

----------


## HsssH

> I don't think this was the plan at the start of Rebirth in 2016, the Rebirth branding ended in 2018 when Didio took over and that was the time a lot of things went wrong with the batfamily.


There is lots of talk about how Didio changed Rebirth, but I don't buy it, he never lost any control in the first place. And yeah, probably not in 2016, but Glass started writing Titans in mid 2018 and these things usually don't happen overnight so plans were probably already laid out in late 2017 before Glass even came around.

----------


## Light of Justice

> There is lots of talk about how Didio changed Rebirth, but I don't buy it, he never lost any control in the first place. And yeah, probably not in 2016, but Glass started writing Titans in mid 2018 and these things usually don't happen overnight so plans were probably already laid out in late 2017 before Glass even came around.


I don't know what it means for a writer when they were hired specifically to assassinate a character.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> He also said in another interview that Damian would be part of the batfamily again and honestly, I don't see what's wrong with just letting Damian be Robin and go on missions with his family members for a change. Just let him do regular hero missions for one or two short arcs before worrying about his distant future for the nth time. Let Damian exist in the present.


Oh, yeah, I do enjoy Damian with Batfamily, even if it is a character I don't like so much the interactions were very funny, he with Jason, Dick, Stephanie, Barbara, Bruce, Duke <3, Alfred and also Jon and Superman made great stories =u=, push him in TT was a mistake... :/
Also I would like to see he with other super kids that have parents, he and Conner are very funny right now...

----------


## dietrich

> Just thinking why Jace Fox is the one to be Batman in Jon's side when Dick, Jason, and Tim exist, this passage made me realized how Batfamily totally got fucked up after No Justice.


Jace is Batman next to jon because he is Black nothing to do with the state of the Batfamily.

DC wanted a Black Batman.

----------


## dietrich

The revelations are pretty much what we expected.

I don't know what the obsession is with making Robins evil. 1st Tim was going to have a longer stint as Saviour then Damian is Hitler. Glad both ideas were nixed

----------


## Astralabius

> Honestly, that time with the Arkham Knight story with Damian actually being Batman's sidekick was pretty nice. 
> 
> There really needs more Batman and Robin team ups. Along with him hanging out with the Bat family more.
> 
> But hey, the issue 5 of Robin is going to give us all the robins back together. The four robins wanting to bring Damian back to Gotham, the kid refuses and turns into a rumble.



Yeah, that was actually one of the reasons I dropped the book. I'm not interested in every talk ending in a physical fight, especially if I have to suspect that Damian will just get his ass beaten so fans of the other Robins don't get pissed off. Or I get treated to Damian comitting mass murder because the island allows him to "cut loose" or some bullshit like that. Hard pass.

But Damian does seriously need some stories where he just builds relationships with the members of his family. They either never really existed (Cass, Barbara), never developed (Tim, Duke, Jason), got erased (Stephanie) or were ruined by DC's bullshit (Bruce, Dick, Alfred).

----------


## dietrich

DC doesn't like Batman and Robin together. The broke up that duo in the 90's and launched Robin as an independent hero.

The only chances you guys have of a Batman working with Robin is the upcoming Robin and Batman title. It's not going to happen in the Batman books

----------


## Rac7d*

> Jace is Batman next to jon because he is Black nothing to do with the state of the Batfamily.
> 
> DC wanted a Black Batman.


So why not luke?

----------


## Frontier

Zach Callison is going to play Damian in the upcoming Injustice animated movie.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Honestly, that time with the Arkham Knight story with Damian actually being Batman's sidekick was pretty nice. 
> 
> There really needs more Batman and Robin team ups. Along with him hanging out with the Bat family more.
> 
> But hey, the issue 5 of Robin is going to give us all the robins back together. The four robins wanting to bring Damian back to Gotham, the kid refuses and turns into a rumble.


Dick and Steph I can see (with pre-Flashpoint apparently re-established in many cases), but Tim is questionable, and Jason? Oof. Despite having the most in common, the two get along like oil and water (and, as much of a fan of Damian I am, its mostly Damian's fault its so contentious).

----------


## adrikito

> Zach Callison is going to play Damian in the upcoming Injustice animated movie.


What?? One Injustice Movie?? that does not sound too good..

Not for Damian.

----------


## adrikito

> Yupp, but I wanted to see it unfold from Damian's POV. What were his thoughts, choices, sacrifices etc. I wanted to see it more in-depth. 
> 
> I loved Beyond because of Damian in it, but I'm greedy - I wanted more XD


I can understand you.. He looked really cool..

and was not something forced like what they made with Superkid making him suddently age many years..


I am fine with Damian having 14 years.. I prefer it to make him one adult for NO REASON like the previous case. But I would like another universe with him(having +20 years) to see how the things would be during some time.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I can understand you.. He looked really cool..
> 
> and was not something forced like what they made with Superkid making him suddently age many years..
> 
> 
> I am fine with Damian having 14 years.. I prefer it to make him one adult for NO REASON like the previous case. But I would like another universe with him(having +20 years) to see how the things would be during some time.


A universe where him, Jon (no stupid age-up, only natural), Yara, and others in their age group become adults normally, without something like a zombie apocalypse going on, I would be all for.

----------


## Blue22

> A universe where him, Jon (no stupid age-up, only natural), Yara, and others in their age group become adults normally, without something like a zombie apocalypse going on, I would be all for.


Between this and another suggestion I heard today about a Conner Superman book with Jon as his partner, I'm just hearing so many good ideas that will never come to fruition -___-

----------


## Light of Justice

> Jace is Batman next to jon because he is Black nothing to do with the state of the Batfamily.
> 
> DC wanted a Black Batman.


I mean inside comic world excuse

----------


## Light of Justice

> Yeah, that was actually one of the reasons I dropped the book. I'm not interested in every talk ending in a physical fight, especially if I have to suspect that Damian will just get his ass beaten so fans of the other Robins don't get pissed off. Or I get treated to Damian comitting mass murder because the island allows him to "cut loose" or some bullshit like that. Hard pass.
> 
> But Damian does seriously need some stories where he just builds relationships with the members of his family. They either never really existed (Cass, Barbara), never developed (Tim, Duke, Jason), got erased (Stephanie) or were ruined by DC's bullshit (Bruce, Dick, Alfred).


I doubt that it will be serious physical fight. From wip leaks on Gleb twitter Dick gave Damian a gift and looks like they parted in a peaceful manner. It can be exaggerated solicits again, like solicit Jon vs Teen Titans and Damian vs Hush

Damian and Cass bonding happened on Gates of Gotham, but yeah maybe it's erased. I will put Jason and Damian relationship on 'were ruined by DC bullshit' because of that stupid Teen Titans stuff. They were never so close but still

----------


## Eckri

> I doubt that it will be serious physical fight. From wip leaks on Gleb twitter Dick gave Damian a gift and looks like they parted in a peaceful manner.


https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...120518/photo/1

Dick's Gift.jpg

Wonder what he's giving the kid. 
My personal guess is his own personal batons, like the Injustice comic.

----------


## Blue22

> https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...120518/photo/1
> 
> Dick's Gift.jpg
> 
> Wonder what he's giving the kid. 
> My personal guess is his own personal batons, like the Injustice comic.


Oh my God if Damian gets his own escrima sticks, that would just further cement my belief that he should have stayed Dick's partner instead of Bruce's. In fact...it's not too late. Bruce already has Tim, who seems dead set on being the forever Robin. Give Damian back to *his* Batman!

----------


## Arsenal

> I doubt that it will be serious physical fight. From wip leaks on Gleb twitter Dick gave Damian a gift and looks like they parted in a peaceful manner. It can be exaggerated solicits again, like solicit Jon vs Teen Titans and Damian vs Hush
> 
> Damian and Cass bonding happened on Gates of Gotham, but yeah maybe it's erased. I will put Jason and Damian relationship on 'were ruined by DC bullshit' because of that stupid Teen Titans stuff. They were never so close but still


Yeah, I imagine it ends with us learning Damian’s motivations for joining, the other Robins respecting/accepting it and running interference off panel so Damian can do what he needs to do uninterrupted.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Yeah, I imagine it ends with us learning Damian’s motivations for joining, the other Robins respecting/accepting it and running interference off panel so Damian can do what he needs to do uninterrupted.


I mean, Jason would have the least amount of issues in killing scumbags, but it would depend on what kind of scumbags they are.

----------


## dietrich

> https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...120518/photo/1
> 
> Dick's Gift.jpg
> 
> Wonder what he's giving the kid. 
> My personal guess is his own personal batons, like the Injustice comic.


Hopefully not. We don't want recycled ideas.

Didn't something similar happen with Tim in Nightwing. Where Dick's batons turn into Bo Staffs?

No thanks.

----------


## dietrich

> I mean, Jason would have the least amount of issues in killing scumbags, but it would depend on what kind of scumbags they are.


Not sure what that has to do with anything but a guy that has been using rubber bullets for years, made a pact with Bruce to not kill in Gotham and was the only bat to abide by the terrorists demands when Alfred was in trouble. 

These guys aren't on the level of Joker, they are not threatening a person Jason cares about and they are not in Gotham so jason should be fine killing them  :Stick Out Tongue: 

Actually when does Jason Kill? I know he has killed recently but that is occ compared to how he has been written in the last 8 or so years.

----------


## dietrich

> Oh my God if Damian gets his own escrima sticks, that would just further cement my belief that he should have stayed Dick's partner instead of Bruce's. In fact...it's not too late. Bruce already has Tim, who seems dead set on being the forever Robin. Give Damian back to *his* Batman!


No. Dick's title needs to focus on Dick. Enough with the Bat characters getting propped at his expense. It's bad enough with Babs and 'Best robin' Tim don't want Damian there as well. The book is called Nightwing. I want it to focus on Nightwing.

Bruce doesn't have Tim. Dick has Tim. He has been showing up in Nightwing not batman

Damian needs to be on his own building his own world back up. I want Colin, Maya, Suren, Kid Amazo, the Fist etc. His own characters.

----------


## Fergus

> No. Dick's title needs to focus on Dick. Enough with the Bat characters getting propped at his expense. It's bad enough with Babs and 'Best robin' Tim don't want Damian there as well. The book is called Nightwing. I want it to focus on Nightwing.
> 
> Bruce doesn't have Tim. Dick has Tim. He has been showing up in Nightwing not batman
> 
> Damian needs to be on his own building his own world back up. I want Colin, Maya, Suren, Kid Amazo, the Fist etc. His own characters.


Agree. I haven't been too pleased with how the Nightwing title is going. I love Damian but he is a strong personality so I don't think he's what I want for Dick's book right now. The book is over crowed as is.

Williamson said that Damian's pals will be popping up so that's so good news

----------


## Shen

> No. Dick's title needs to focus on Dick. Enough with the Bat characters getting propped at his expense. It's bad enough with Babs and 'Best robin' Tim don't want Damian there as well. The book is called Nightwing. I want it to focus on Nightwing.
> 
> Bruce doesn't have Tim. Dick has Tim. He has been showing up in Nightwing not batman
> 
> *Damian needs to be on his own building his own world back up. I want Colin, Maya, Suren, Kid Amazo, the Fist etc. His own characters*.


Now this is something I would enjoy. He deserves to have his own crew fleshed out. I would love to see Maya meet Mara XD 

Every time he interacts with other 'Super' kids it almost always ends up painting him negatively. I'd love for him to reunite his old team and start doing some good.

----------


## adrikito

> A universe where him, Jon (no stupid age-up, only natural), Yara, and others in their age group become adults normally, without something like a zombie apocalypse going on, I would be all for.


Now that you mention it... DCeased did not made something similar?? I stopped reading it.




> https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...120518/photo/1
> 
> Dick's Gift.jpg
> 
> Wonder what he's giving the kid. 
> My personal guess is his own personal batons, like the Injustice comic.


A present?? Maybe is a little too late... His BD was probably many days ago.

Anyway in part is Damian fault to hide from the others.

----------


## Astralabius

> I doubt that it will be serious physical fight. From wip leaks on Gleb twitter Dick gave Damian a gift and looks like they parted in a peaceful manner. It can be exaggerated solicits again, like solicit Jon vs Teen Titans and Damian vs Hush
> 
> Damian and Cass bonding happened on Gates of Gotham, but yeah maybe it's erased. I will put Jason and Damian relationship on 'were ruined by DC bullshit' because of that stupid Teen Titans stuff. They were never so close but still


Williamson said the run would answer the question how good of a fighter Damian is compared to the other Robins, I don't know how he plans to answer that question without them having a physical fight.

I didn't put his relationship with Jason under ruined because there wasn't much of a relationship that could be ruined. That's a huge problem I have with DC. They are so obsessed with breaking things that they don't even recognize that in order for readers to care about a relationship breaking apart the reader needs to be attached to that relationship first.
And don't hurt/kill off a character and then suddenly act like they were totally important to the other characters when they weren't.

----------


## Astralabius

> DC doesn't like Batman and Robin together. The broke up that duo in the 90's and launched Robin as an independent hero.
> 
> The only chances you guys have of a Batman working with Robin is the upcoming Robin and Batman title. It's not going to happen in the Batman books


Williamson said Damian would be focused on Bruce when he comes to Gotham in the next arc and that Damian would be part of the batfamily again eventually. I think that sounds a lot like a team-up or at least like a Bruce and Damian centric arc. You can't really return to the batfamily if you aren't on speaking terms with Bruce and they have a lot to sort out. Too much to do it all off-panel.
So the Batman books might not give us a team-up, but I think the Robin book might.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Williamson said the run would answer the question how good of a fighter Damian is compared to the other Robins, I don't know how he plans to answer that question without them having a physical fight.
> 
> I didn't put his relationship with Jason under ruined because there wasn't much of a relationship that could be ruined. That's a huge problem I have with DC. They are so obsessed with breaking things that they don't even recognize that in order for readers to care about a relationship breaking apart the reader needs to be attached to that relationship first.
> And don't hurt/kill off a character and then suddenly act like they were totally important to the other characters when they weren't.


I mean physical fight is definitely happened, it's comic book about batfamily after all hahaha but I don't think there's huge feeling in them and they will not fight wholeheartedly. 

And I agree with you about DC's treatment toward relationship in batfamily.

----------


## Light of Justice

> No. Dick's title needs to focus on Dick. Enough with the Bat characters getting propped at his expense. It's bad enough with Babs and 'Best robin' Tim don't want Damian there as well. The book is called Nightwing. I want it to focus on Nightwing.
> 
> Bruce doesn't have Tim. Dick has Tim. He has been showing up in Nightwing not batman
> 
> Damian needs to be on his own building his own world back up. I want Colin, Maya, Suren, Kid Amazo, the Fist etc. His own characters.


Yeah I always hope that this solo book will give us Damian's own support characters and rogues

----------


## Rac7d*

> Oh my God if Damian gets his own escrima sticks, that would just further cement my belief that he should have stayed Dick's partner instead of Bruce's. In fact...it's not too late. Bruce already has Tim, who seems dead set on being the forever Robin. Give Damian back to *his* Batman!


I see Damian being a successor not Nightwing if Dick ever put it down.

----------


## dietrich

> Williamson said Damian would be focused on Bruce when he comes to Gotham in the next arc and that Damian would be part of the batfamily again eventually. I think that sounds a lot like a team-up or at least like a Bruce and Damian centric arc. You can't really return to the batfamily if you aren't on speaking terms with Bruce and they have a lot to sort out. Too much to do it all off-panel.
> So the Batman books might not give us a team-up, but I think the Robin book might.


That makes me more hopeful.

Plus it means Williamson will be one handling their interactions not Tynion which is a huge positive.

----------


## dietrich

@Rac7d, Can't believe I forgot Maps earlier.

@Shen Yeah I'd love to see Maya and Mara meet. Damian is always the fall guy which is not only unoriginal it's boring as heck. I'd like to see him make friends not antagonise everyone.

At least develop the friendships he has made up to this point.

----------


## Morgoth

> So the Batman books might not give us a team-up, but I think the Robin book might.


Batman book definitely won't give it, for one simple reason. This reason is called Tynion.
I guess we either getting this arc in Robin, or it's going to be that Robin and Batman book, which was mentioned.

----------


## Astralabius

> Batman book definitely won't give it, for one simple reason. This reason is called Tynion.
> I guess we either getting this arc in Robin, or it's going to be that Robin and Batman book, which was mentioned.


I have to say, when they announced Tynion would be taking over Batman I expected to see Tim Drake get an important role in it, but that didn't happen. Instead Tynion is trying to push his own characters, probably because it makes him more money, which I can understand, but I can't say I'm interested in them. I don't hate his run, I just couldn't get myself to care about it. 

Anyway, originally I thought that the Robin and Batman book they teased for this year would be another out of continuity anthology (probably focused on all the Robins and their adventures with Batman) because Tynion said he knew nothing about the book when he was asked about it a few months ago, but now we've already gotten the October solicits and the book is still nowhere to be seen. 
Unless they cancelled it alltogether I would say there could be a small chance that Robin and Batman might actually be an in continuity book with Bruce and Damian. At least it would explain why it hasn't been announced yet. 

It's probably just wishful thinking, but the relationship has suffered so much in recent years that rebuilding it would certainly warrant a book (at least a limited series, not necessarily an ongoing), not just an arc. Plus, maybe DC is finally beginning to feel uncomfortable with Bruce being seen as an absolutely terrible father by a lot of readers. It's not a good look for a hero (yeah, who am I kidding, that's probably not the case. Then again, Didio is gone, idk) 

Considering Damian's personality and current mindset I could certainly see him agreeing to work with Bruce again on the condition that it has to be Robin and Batman from now on (and Bruce agreeing because he's desperate and tired), thus the name of the book. If the title stays the same. They did say that the titles might be changed.

----------


## Blue22

> No. Dick's title needs to focus on Dick. Enough with the Bat characters getting propped at his expense. It's bad enough with Babs and 'Best robin' Tim don't want Damian there as well. The book is called Nightwing. I want it to focus on Nightwing.
> 
> Bruce doesn't have Tim. Dick has Tim. He has been showing up in Nightwing not batman
> 
> Damian needs to be on his own building his own world back up. I want Colin, Maya, Suren, Kid Amazo, the Fist etc. His own characters.




That's pretty much everything I want for them too but there's not really any reason why you can't do both. It sure as hell wouldn't be the first time that a Batman and Robin duo (or...in this case, Nightwing and Robin) have worked together while still going off to do their own things. 

I'm still totally overjoyed with direction they're both going in right now. Williamson and Taylor have been killing it. But his relationship with Dick is one of the first things that made him my favorite Robin and it's something that a lot of more recent stories have...done a not so great job of showing. So I'm always down for some kind of team up book (even if it's just a mini) of those those two working together again. The best dynamic duo :P 

I still remember reading that mini arc in Rebirth Nightwing where Dick confessed that they thought about taking Damian back to Bludhaven with him when Bruce came back from the "dead". And while I reeeeeeally loved Tomasi's Batman and Robin, I still couldn't help but think "...Wow, Dick. You really should have done that."

----------


## Rebeca Armus

They said last year something about many timelines without relationship, you guys care too much if things that want happens or not in canon (main time line)?
I am pretty happy if it's not, like the last super sons.
Also can't they write Nightwing and Nightwing & Robin? Like there was Batman, but also Batman & Robin?

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I like the idea of Damian running his own stories/team/path, but... can't wait until he become at least 17...?
Ah, one character I think has a good match with him is Billy Batson, they had a pretry short interaction, but enough for me say "DO IT!, write them team uping!", I don't really now about Billy in comics, but usually Damian ending with more naive characters, so he ending looks liking a bad guy/influence/mean kid, if he stay with a smart little brat will be a new dinamic.

----------


## KrustyKid

> @Rac7d, Can't believe I forgot Maps earlier.
> 
> @Shen Yeah I'd love to see Maya and Mara meet. Damian is always the fall guy which is not only unoriginal it's boring as heck. I'd like to see him make friends not antagonise everyone.
> 
> At least develop the friendships he has made up to this point.


Exactly, I agree with this 100%. There are some great characters that could play off of Damian pretty well.

----------


## Astralabius

> That makes me more hopeful.
> 
> Plus it means Williamson will be one handling their interactions not Tynion which is a huge positive.


I recently learned (from an interview with Williamson from 2018) that it was Williamson who had the idea that the first thing Bruce would want to talk about when he met Flashpoint Thomas Wayne was Damian and that he wrote that conversation, not King. I know some people really disliked that, but to me it showed that Williamson understood that Damian should be important to Bruce. Which I can't say about King. I bet if he had been tasked to write that conversation Bruce would have started talking about Catwoman for no damn reason.

Tynion's Batman doesn't seem all that concerned about Damian. I never expected it to play a huge role, but I thought it would at least be important enough to mention it here and there when Bruce is moping about what is currently going wrong in his life again.

----------


## Astralabius

> Bruce doesn't have Tim. Dick has Tim. He has been showing up in Nightwing not batman


Yeah, I've seen several people act like Tim is currently playing the role as the Robin at Batman's side, but neither the current stories nor the solicitations prove that claim as far as I'm aware. Did I miss something? Did Mariko Tamaki or Tynion say anything about Tim playing an important part in their upcoming stories?

----------


## Konja7

> Did Mariko Tamaki or Tynion say anything about Tim playing an important part in their upcoming stories?


No. Tynion mentioned that the Batfamily (except Oracle) won't have a big role in his Batman run. He wants to focus on his new characters.

----------


## KrustyKid

> No. Tynion mentioned that the Batfamily (except Oracle) won't have a big role in his Batman run. He wants to focus on his new characters.


Which makes sense. That way he can develop them without oversaturation of other characters

----------


## garazza

> I recently learned (from an interview with Williamson from 2018) that it was Williamson who had the idea that the first thing Bruce would want to talk about when he met Flashpoint Thomas Wayne was Damian and that he wrote that conversation, not King. I know some people really disliked that, but to me it showed that Williamson understood that Damian should be important to Bruce. Which I can't say about King. I bet if he had been tasked to write that conversation Bruce would have started talking about Catwoman for no damn reason.


I really hated that conversation in The Button because I am the biggest Damian fan and I would have never written that. Bruce is the father of multiple children, not just Damian. I remember Geoff Johns worked on that book with King, but I completely forgot Williamson was even involved, so now I have an issue with him.




> Tynion's Batman doesn't seem all that concerned about Damian. I never expected it to play a huge role, but I thought it would at least be important enough to mention it here and there when Bruce is moping about what is currently going wrong in his life again.


Back during the New 52, the reason Damian rarely showed up or was referenced in Batman was because Snyder was told not to write about him because any and all Bruce and Damian stuff was to be told in Tomasi and Gleason's Batman and Robin. I'd say a similar arrangement is in place now with the edict in Tynion's Batman being focus on new characters and Williamson's Robin will be the place to deal with Bruce and Damian's issues, while all the ancillary titles will feature the rest of the Batfamily.

----------


## Astralabius

> I really hated that conversation in The Button because I am the biggest Damian fan and I would have never written that. Bruce is the father of multiple children, not just Damian. I remember Geoff Johns worked on that book with King, but I completely forgot Williamson was even involved, so now I have an issue with him.
> 
> 
> 
> Back during the New 52, the reason Damian rarely showed up or was referenced in Batman was because Snyder was told not to write about him because any and all Bruce and Damian stuff was to be told in Tomasi and Gleason's Batman and Robin. I'd say a similar arrangement is in place now with the edict in Tynion's Batman being focus on new characters and Williamson's Robin will be the place to deal with Bruce and Damian's issues, while all the ancillary titles will feature the rest of the Batfamily.


Eh, I have seen some people get enraged simply because of scenes where Bruce refers to Damian as his son or when a writer dares to give us a glimmer of affection between those two because "Damian's existence is undermining Bruce's adopted children!!!". I'm sure you don't mean it that way, but I'm kinda over people getting needlessly angry at this.
I recently reread Tynion's run on Detective Comics and I noticed how many hugs Bruce gives to Tim, Cass and Steph. The last time Bruce hugged Damian was 2015 in Convergence. The best we've gotten since then were some hands on a shoulder and some nice words about how Bruce cares about Damian when he wasn't even there to hear it. People need to calm down.

That's not entirely true though. Damian's death and how Bruce handled it played a part in Snyder's run too, not just in Batman and Robin. While Damian is not dead he did quit as Robin, had a big falling out with Bruce and ran away from his family. I expected that to have a bigger impact. I had to sit through two years of Teen Titans character assassinating Damian, the least they can do is make it feel like it mattered. Even in Tomasi's last arc on Detective Comics the whole thing seemed to be at the bottom of Bruce's priority list. It's just kinda sad at this point how little this seems to matter to the characters around Damian.

----------


## Fergus

> I really hated that conversation in The Button because I am the biggest Damian fan and I would have never written that. *Bruce is the father of multiple children, not just Damian*. I remember Geoff Johns worked on that book with King, but I completely forgot Williamson was even involved, so now I have an issue with him.
> 
> 
> 
> Back during the New 52, the reason Damian rarely showed up or was referenced in Batman was because Snyder was told not to write about him because any and all Bruce and Damian stuff was to be told in Tomasi and Gleason's Batman and Robin. I'd say a similar arrangement is in place now with the edict in Tynion's Batman being focus on new characters and Williamson's Robin will be the place to deal with Bruce and Damian's issues, while all the ancillary titles will feature the rest of the Batfamily.


At this point Bruce was Tim legal Guardian not adoptive parent according to tec, Jason was Bruce's foster kid not adoptive son [this was prior to the King Batman issue the re-established that Dick was adopted so at the time Damian was Bruce's only legal son.

I saw a lot of people complaining about that and others defending it as Damian being the only one related to Thomas by Blood but the truth was that in canon [Rebirth tec and rebirth RHATO] the status of the bat family changed.

That not true about Snyder's Batman. Snyder said that Damian reminds him of his kid which was why he couldn't write him
This is backed up by Morrison and Tomasi

Tomasi said that he knows Scott thinks Robin is irresponsible and something Bruce would never do. 
Morrison laughed at the idea of Snyder having to write Damian since one of the reasons why he wanted to put his toys back in the box was because Scott likes Batman without alone.

Snyder made the decision not to have Damian in his Batman run not DC.

----------


## garazza

Oh, I couldn't care less who's adoption is still canon or not, nothing is going to erase their place in the family and the larger universe.

----------


## garazza

> Eh, I have seen some people get enraged simply because of scenes where Bruce refers to Damian as his son or when a writer dares to give us a glimmer of affection between those two because "Damian's existence is undermining Bruce's adopted children!!!". I'm sure you don't mean it that way, but I'm kinda over people getting needlessly angry at this.
> I recently reread Tynion's run on Detective Comics and I noticed how many hugs Bruce gives to Tim, Cass and Steph. The last time Bruce hugged Damian was 2015 in Convergence. The best we've gotten since then were some hands on a shoulder and some nice words about how Bruce cares about Damian when he wasn't even there to hear it. People need to calm down.
> 
> That's not entirely true though. Damian's death and how Bruce handled it played a part in Snyder's run too, not just in Batman and Robin. While Damian is not dead he did quit as Robin, had a big falling out with Bruce and ran away from his family. I expected that to have a bigger impact. I had to sit through two years of Teen Titans character assassinating Damian, the least they can do is make it feel like it mattered. Even in Tomasi's last arc on Detective Comics the whole thing seemed to be at the bottom of Bruce's priority list. It's just kinda sad at this point how little this seems to matter to the characters around Damian.


I'm the kind of fan that knows Bruce loves all his children equally. Damian is Bruce's only biological son, that's a fact, but it's also a fact that Damian is the "youngest" member of the Batfamily. He's the baby brother. Tim used to be the baby, now he's the middle child. That's just how families grow. If fans don't like that, they can suck it.

But I agree, what I'm not over is DC writing Bruce to be neglectful father to his son.

----------


## garazza

> At this point Bruce was Tim legal Guardian not adoptive parent according to tec, Jason was Bruce's foster kid not adoptive son [this was prior to the King Batman issue the re-established that Dick was adopted so at the time Damian was Bruce's only legal son.
> 
> I saw a lot of people complaining about that and others defending it as Damian being the only one related to Thomas by Blood but the truth was that in canon [Rebirth tec and rebirth RHATO] the status of the bat family changed.
> 
> That not true about Snyder's Batman. Snyder said that Damian reminds him of his kid which was why he couldn't write him
> This is backed up by Morrison and Tomasi
> 
> Tomasi said that he knows Scott thinks Robin is irresponsible and something Bruce would never do. 
> Morrison laughed at the idea of Snyder having to write Damian since one of the reasons why he wanted to put his toys back in the box was because Scott likes Batman without alone.
> ...


https://youtu.be/IGv4sdjseGg?t=3477

This is where I got my Snyder/Damian info from. I mostly remembered the first part of his answer, but not the second.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I have a feeling Bruce cares much much muuuuch more about people when they go, so I can see he as a good father when his child die or almost die than when they are trying they best for keep close, same thing with how he deal with Alfred for example...
I remember a ig post when people was "but he went to hell for get Damian back!" True, but he also take Jason for his death place for get a clue or something like this and is verry cold 1 day after Damian comeback.

----------


## Light of Justice

> At this point Bruce was Tim legal Guardian not adoptive parent according to tec, Jason was Bruce's *foster kid not adoptive son* [this was prior to the King Batman issue the re-established that Dick was adopted so at the time Damian was Bruce's only legal son.
> 
> I saw a lot of people complaining about that and others defending it as Damian being the only one related to Thomas by Blood but the truth was that in canon [Rebirth tec and rebirth RHATO] the status of the bat family changed.
> 
> That not true about Snyder's Batman. Snyder said that Damian reminds him of his kid which was why he couldn't write him
> This is backed up by Morrison and Tomasi
> 
> Tomasi said that he knows Scott thinks Robin is irresponsible and something Bruce would never do. 
> Morrison laughed at the idea of Snyder having to write Damian since one of the reasons why he wanted to put his toys back in the box was because Scott likes Batman without alone.
> ...


Sorry for my poor English comprehension, but I though foster kid and adoptive kid are the same thing?

Regarding Synder, I agree that Synder himself who avoid writing Damian. I remember Williamson said that he had fought to write Damian on Gotham Resistence, and on comicvine there's discussion about Damian's existence is the marker of Synder's influence on a story (more Damian appearance is less Synder's influence).




> Eh, I have seen some people get enraged simply because of scenes where Bruce refers to Damian as his son or when a writer dares to give us a glimmer of affection between those two because "Damian's existence is undermining Bruce's adopted children!!!". I'm sure you don't mean it that way, but I'm kinda over people getting needlessly angry at this.
> I recently reread Tynion's run on Detective Comics and I noticed how many hugs Bruce gives to Tim, Cass and Steph. The last time Bruce hugged Damian was 2015 in Convergence. The best we've gotten since then were some hands on a shoulder and some nice words about how Bruce cares about Damian when he wasn't even there to hear it. People need to calm down.


Speaking about hug comparison, Jarro got hugged more than Damian was ever

----------


## Blue22

> Sorry for my poor English comprehension, but I though foster kid and adoptive kid are the same thing?


Nah. On the parenthood ladder, fostering is like that one step below adopting. When you foster a kid it's usually a temporary thing. You haven't legally become their parent. Though it's definitely not unheard of for a child to be adopted by their foster family. That's what my parents did for my older brother.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Speaking about hug comparison, Jarro got hugged more than Damian was ever


Ouch >-< why Bruce, why?

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Nah. On the parenthood ladder, fostering is like that one step below adopting. When you foster a kid it's usually a temporary thing. You haven't legally become their parent. Though it's definitely not unheard of for a child to be adopted by their foster family. That's what my parents did for my older brother.


Ohhhhh. Now the ""Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends"" make a lot more sense.

----------


## Astralabius

> I have a feeling Bruce cares much much muuuuch more about people when they go, so I can see he as a good father when his child die or almost die than when they are trying they best for keep close, same thing with how he deal with Alfred for example...
> I remember a ig post when people was "but he went to hell for get Damian back!" True, but he also take Jason for his death place for get a clue or something like this and is verry cold 1 day after Damian comeback.


Yeah, I guess it's possible to read it as Bruce being kinda obsessed with mourning/idolising the dead and Bruce loving heroic acts a lot more than being a good parent or at least a decent one on a reliable daily basis. Probably not DC's intention, but not an interpretation without evidence to back it up.

I think the conversation between Bruce and Damian on the boat shortly after Damian's resurrection is actually a bit funny. Bruce talks about how he can't really explain why it worked, but he believes that his love for Damian and his resolve to get him back made the chaos shard (or whatever it was called) grant him a wish and Damian's only reply to that was to say that you should be careful what you wish for lol.
I'm sure Tomasi truly wanted Damian's resurrection to be an honest act of love, but I agree, how DC handled their relationship after Bruce got Damian back opened the gates for a more cynical view on the whole affair.

----------


## Astralabius

> Speaking about hug comparison, Jarro got hugged more than Damian was ever


The difference between how Bruce treated Jarro and how he treated Damian at the same time was pretty jarring, that's for sure.

----------


## Shen

> The difference between how Bruce treated Jarro and how he treated Damian at the same time was pretty jarring, that's for sure.


Hah - Jarring XD

----------


## Astralabius

> Hah - Jarring XD


I didn't even notice that when I wrote it, I'm so sorry :')

----------


## dietrich

> Oh, I couldn't care less who's adoption is still canon or not, nothing is going to erase their place in the family and the larger universe.


Canon is canon.
I don't think anyone can argue that Robin are family. Just the sheer length of time they have been a part of each others lives forces closeness.

EG even if Bruce never adopted Dick no one can argue with a straight face that his bond with Dick isn't by far stronger than that he shares with the others
However I can see why Bruce would only mention Damian to Thomas even while seeing the others as his kids

----------


## dietrich

> Sorry for my poor English comprehension, but I though foster kid and adoptive kid are the same thing?
> 
> Regarding Synder, I agree that Synder himself who avoid writing Damian. I remember Williamson said that he had fought to write Damian on Gotham Resistence, and on comicvine there's discussion about Damian's existence is the marker of Synder's influence on a story (more Damian appearance is less Synder's influence).
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking about hug comparison, Jarro got hugged more than Damian was ever


When you adopt a child that means that the bio parents have relinquished their rights and you have parental responsibility for the child.

Foster parenting/care is when the bio parents aren't able to take care of a child for whatever reason so the kids are put into care but the parents HAVEN'T relinquished their rights as a parents.

Foster care normally for a set time period.

Correct Snyder had issues writing Damian due to his issues with Robin as a concept and the fact that he had young kids.

It's notable that in his stories when Damian was 10 he wasn't really put in danger too often and when he wrote he he'd write in aspects of his kids life into Damian such as the rock Band [his sons have a garage band] and Damian sassing wW [Snyder shared an antidote of one of his kids doing something similar with a teacher]


I feel fans feel Jarro is less of a threat [a joke character] so they don't take it seriously.

----------


## dietrich

> Eh, I have seen some people get enraged simply because of scenes where Bruce refers to Damian as his son or when a writer dares to give us a glimmer of affection between those two because "Damian's existence is undermining Bruce's adopted children!!!". I'm sure you don't mean it that way, but I'm kinda over people getting needlessly angry at this.
> I recently reread Tynion's run on Detective Comics and I noticed how many hugs Bruce gives to Tim, Cass and Steph. The last time Bruce hugged Damian was 2015 in Convergence. The best we've gotten since then were some hands on a shoulder and some nice words about how Bruce cares about Damian when he wasn't even there to hear it. People need to calm down.
> 
> That's not entirely true though. Damian's death and how Bruce handled it played a part in Snyder's run too, not just in Batman and Robin. While Damian is not dead he did quit as Robin, had a big falling out with Bruce and ran away from his family. I expected that to have a bigger impact. I had to sit through two years of Teen Titans character assassinating Damian, the least they can do is make it feel like it mattered. Even in Tomasi's last arc on Detective Comics the whole thing seemed to be at the bottom of Bruce's priority list. It's just kinda sad at this point how little this seems to matter to the characters around Damian.


Not just the hugs. Bruce treats Damian far worse than the others . It's a contradiction.

You don't judge a character by their words but by their actions.
Bruce's actions don't undermine adoption. His words 90% of the time also don't undermine adoption or found family.

----------


## Astralabius

> Not just the hugs. Bruce treats Damian far worse than the others . It's a contradiction.
> 
> You don't judge a character by their words but by their actions.
> Bruce's actions don't undermine adoption. His words 90% of the time also don't undermine adoption or found family.


I find the relationship between Bruce and Damian highly fascinating, but their relationship is mainly defined by the absence in each other lives even well after Talia revealed Damian to his father and the hurt that causes (at least if DC bothers to write it well)

It took DC five years to establish a father-son bond between the two and even in that book Tomasi made sure to include scenes with Bruce's other sons as well. The B&R 2009 issue where they all watch Zorro together was written by Tomasi. In R&B 2011 Bruce didn't order a portrait to be made just with Damian and him, he included Alfred, Dick and Tim too. He wanted them all to be a family. Jason had just recently stopped trying to kill them and was legally dead, Steph and Cass had been erased by the New 52, so that's why they weren't on that family portrait.
Yes, Bruce treated them all badly in his grief over Damian, but Tomasi also gave us a rare speech where Bruce actually apologized for his behaviour and reassured them that he valued all of them.

I think Tomasi was quite considerate of Bruce's other relationships when he tried to build a bond between Bruce and Damian, which I can't say about other writers trying to develope a relationship between Bruce and whatever character they are trying to push in that moment.
Like in that one panel from the Signal oneshot that came out recently where Bruce complains about Jason, Dick and Damian to elevate Duke. Was that really necessary?

----------


## adrikito

> I feel fans feel Jarro is less of a threat [a joke character] so they don't take it seriously.


Jarro still exists?

Hs opinion about ROBIN concept? Bad opinion or he overestimates his skills too much.. 

I still remember Duke first days as Hero with Snyder talking like if he was better idea than ROBIN concept  :EEK!:  insulting with that many characters fanbases and sounding like if he thinks that had the ultimate hero idea.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

Considering Damian has died and Duke hasn't, I think there's room to say the Signal is a better hero concept.

----------


## Light of Justice

> When you adopt a child that means that the bio parents have relinquished their rights and you have parental responsibility for the child.
> 
> Foster parenting/care is when the bio parents aren't able to take care of a child for whatever reason so the kids are put into care but the parents HAVEN'T relinquished their rights as a parents.
> 
> Foster care normally for a set time period.
> 
> Correct Snyder had issues writing Damian due to his issues with Robin as a concept and the fact that he had young kids.
> 
> It's notable that in his stories when Damian was 10 he wasn't really put in danger too often and when he wrote he he'd write in aspects of his kids life into Damian such as the rock Band [his sons have a garage band] and Damian sassing wW [Snyder shared an antidote of one of his kids doing something similar with a teacher]
> ...


I see. But why is Jason foster kid when unlike Tim his parents already can't reclaim their right over Jason? Also Bruce didn't set any time period when he took Jason, he was Bruce's responsibility longer than Bruce acknowledges Damian as his son.

And yeah, Jarro thing is a joke.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Considering Damian has died and Duke hasn't, I think there's room to say the Signal is a better hero concept.


It's not about Damian. It's about Robin, who already has 4 (or 3, depending on how you treat canon) predecessors and a solid brand. Claiming a completely new title is better than Robin is unnecessary and disrespectful, I don't know what's Patrick thinking if he truly expects fans to believe that.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> It's not about Damian. It's about Robin, who already has 4 (or 3, depending on how you treat canon) predecessors and a solid brand. Claiming a completely new title is better than Robin is unnecessary and disrespectful, I don't know what's Patrick thinking if he truly expects fans to believe that.


Two Robins died. 0 Signals have died.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Two Robins died. 0 Signals have died.


Because Signal brand is way younger than Robin, and irrelevant for Bruce angst. We all know that Robin's deaths are all for Bruce angst and they were used that way because those Robins are important aspects in Batman's life.

If Batman said that Signal is better than Robin hoping that Duke will never get killed (and revived), then he should know better.

----------


## Lucas 35

Robin#4
He is Back!



And in Checkmate #2

----------


## sifighter

As man it’s so nice to see Damian’s reunion with Goliath. For all he’s been through lately he could use his fuzzy red friend.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Considering Damian has died and Duke hasn't, I think there's room to say the Signal is a better hero concept.


He hasn’t died yet, it’s inevitable as comic book character

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> Because Signal brand is way younger than Robin, and irrelevant for Bruce angst. We all know that Robin's deaths are all for Bruce angst and they were used that way because those Robins are important aspects in Batman's life.
> 
> If Batman said that Signal is better than Robin hoping that Duke will never get killed (and revived), then he should know better.


He's been right. Duke hasn't died, Damian died in like three years as Robin. So Duke's already kinda better.

----------


## Blue22

I know at this point I'm just feeding the troll but I'm just kinda curious. Does that make Duke better than every single hero that's ever died? Or does that logic only apply to Damian since you like Duke more than him? Because if you put Duke in the same situation Damian died in, I'm pretty sure he's not coming out alive either.

----------


## Rac7d*

> I know at this point I'm just feeding the troll but I'm just kinda curious. Does that make Duke better than every single hero that's ever died? Or does that logic only apply to Damian since you like Duke more than him? Because if you put Duke in the same situation Damian died in, I'm pretty sure he's not coming out alive either.


and he's not coming back since he is not the heir to the family of resurrection or a father who would literally go to hell for you. Batman Inc was great story and cemented Damian wayne as a hero, its a shame DC went to revillainze a child who worked so hard to change.

----------


## Shen

> I know at this point I'm just feeding the troll but I'm just kinda curious. Does that make Duke better than every single hero that's ever died? Or does that logic only apply to Damian since you like Duke more than him? Because if you put Duke in the same situation Damian died in, I'm pretty sure he's not coming out alive either.

----------


## Eckri

Ren n Hana.jpg
No wonder he reads these types of story.

Aw, the kid just wants friends, giving me some Maps vibe from Hana. 
That, and he is an artist, like the time Bruce complemented him on his drawing skills in the Arkham Knight storyline.

Old Man Ra's.jpg

You know, I'm liking this hobo Ra's al Ghul look. 
Maybe this Grand-father to Grand-son bonding will better than Damian's last time, no doubt that Thomas Wayne beating still scars the kid.

----------


## dietrich

> Considering Damian has died and Duke hasn't, I think there's room to say the Signal is a better hero concept.


Yep the Signal is a better hero concept than Superman who has also died. Checks out

----------


## dietrich

> Two Robins died. 0 Signals have died.


Damian has saved the world twice
Tim Drake has saved the world once
Signal has saved the world Zero times

What do heroes do? Save people, help those in need, put their lives on the line to aid others


Dying doesn't stop or take away from someone being a hero my dude. That's a very stupid and derogatory thing to say. Lots of heroes give their life/have died in the line of action

----------


## dietrich

> Jarro still exists?
> 
> Hs opinion about ROBIN concept? Bad opinion or he overestimates his skills too much.. 
> 
> I still remember Duke first days as Hero with Snyder talking like if he was better idea than ROBIN concept  insulting with that many characters fanbases and sounding like if he thinks that had the ultimate hero idea.


I don't think Scott meant it like that though the optics of being uncomfortable with Bruce endangering a white minor so you have him endanger a black one isn't so good.

----------


## dietrich

> I see. But why is Jason foster kid when unlike Tim his parents already can't reclaim their right over Jason? Also Bruce didn't set any time period when he took Jason, he was Bruce's responsibility longer than Bruce acknowledges Damian as his son.
> 
> And yeah, Jarro thing is a joke.


I don't know. Jason was always adopted but then in Rebirth it was altered to foster care.

We never got the details of Jason's adoption in the 1st place.

I think that maybe the change to Bruce being a foster parent might have been tied to the odd return of Willis. Maybe DC had other plans. I mean why have Jason's dead dad suddenly resurface alongside altering Bruce's status by taking away his parental rights to jason?

I feel like they were setting up for a story that never happened.

----------


## dietrich

> Robin#4
> He is Back!
> 
> 
> 
> And in Checkmate #2


That dialogue in Checkmate. Seems very meta. Tynion said that the back stage politics were over.

I don't believe him. Is this another pissing contest like with the Supersons fans?

The Robin preview is pure joy

----------


## Astralabius

> That dialogue in Checkmate. Seems very meta. Tynion said that the back stage politics were over.
> 
> I don't believe him. Is this another pissing contest like with the Supersons fans?
> 
> The Robin preview is pure joy


Other writers have at least enough decency to simply not include a character if they don't like them, but Bendis just has to put Damian in his works, doesn't he? -_-

----------


## Morgoth

More likely it's some sort of meta reference to the fact that his role was completely rewritten in favor of fans preferences (and some writers as well), it's Bendis' style to do something like that.

----------


## hairys

Duke doesn't die but he kills using his superpower of getting lodged down people's throats.

----------


## adrikito

> I know at this point I'm just feeding the troll but I'm just kinda curious.


Curiosity killed the cat.. Better ignore the trolls and don´t feed them. For this I ignored him. Even with my few visits I saw him before and learned that the best is ignore him.




> Ren n Hana.jpg
> No wonder he reads these types of story.
> 
> Aw, the kid just wants friends, giving me some Maps vibe from Hana. 
> That, and he is an artist, like the time Bruce complemented him on his drawing skills in the Arkham Knight storyline.
> 
> Old Man Ra's.jpg
> 
> You know, I'm liking this hobo Ra's al Ghul look. 
> Maybe this Grand-father to Grand-son bonding will better than Damian's last time, no doubt that Thomas Wayne beating still scars the kid.


I think that this time it was a little disturbing the manga.. DAMIAN mind remembered his wounds and appeared here too 

MAPS.. The best of GA. When I saw Damian in Gotham Academy I thought that something closely to what I see in this manga could be possible but NO... Or maybe he was too young in that moment.

Hahaha. Yeah Ra´s looks like a hippie

----------


## CPSparkles

Zach Callison [Steven Universe ] is going to be voicing Damian in the Injustice movie. He is also the voice if Billy Batson in Justice League War.

----------


## CPSparkles

It's so good seeing goliath. that interaction between the two is adorable

----------


## Restingvoice

> Curiosity killed the cat.. Better ignore the trolls and don´t feed them. For this I ignored him. Even with my few visits I saw him before and learned that the best is ignore him.
> 
> 
> 
> I think that this time it was a little disturbing the manga.. DAMIAN mind remembered his wounds and appeared here too 
> 
> MAPS.. The best of GA. When I saw Damian in Gotham Academy I thought that something closely to what I see in this manga could be possible but NO... Or maybe he was too young in that moment.
> 
> Hahaha. Yeah Ra´s looks like a hippie


When Damian first showed up in GA it was weird because nobody aged during New 52 so people's understanding is he's still 10 but attending a middle school, but since Rebirth began with Damian having 13th birthday, looking back, he would be 12 going on 13 at that time, and that makes more sense since he's drawn older in GA anyway.

----------


## Fergus

> When Damian first showed up in GA it was weird because nobody aged during New 52 so people's understanding is he's still 10 but attending a middle school, but since Rebirth began with Damian having 13th birthday, looking back, he would be 12 going on 13 at that time, and that makes more sense since he's drawn older in GA anyway.


I don't know Damian's origin was changed in the nu52 to being fast aged along with everyone else's so unlikely he was 12.

Also he was on a short term mission at GA not actually enrolled to be a student so no sure how kosher the truthful/accurate the details he used to get in were.

I've always wondered? Damian couldn't have had a legit Birth certificate when he's nu52 origin was in play since that would reveal his true age [a toddler]

----------


## Blue22

> Zach Callison [Steven Universe ] is going to be voicing Damian in the Injustice movie. He is also the voice if Billy Batson in Justice League War.


[VoiceActorNerd]So my usual VA fancast for Colin is voicing Damian. Close enough I guess lol[/VoiceActorNerd]

----------


## adrikito

One guy in twitter was interested in the Blood and... I think that there is a D and F here. I hope that is not a bad signal about this relationship... 

Also. I remember read somwhere that these Plushies looked like a bad signal. Why? I do not know. I did not understood it.

DF.jpg

----------


## Fergus

Damian inserting himself into his manga is relatable.

Fiction is as much escapism as it it entertainment. The unexpected part is his choice. Shojo it looks like.

----------


## adrikito

YES. I read somewhere that apparently is Shojo..

----------


## Eckri

Oh yeah, heard a lot of about Damian reading Shojo, half expected him to bust out a Sailor Moon manga to read.

I mean, considering that the genre deals with emotions and relationships, it isn't far too obvious why Damian would read the genre.

----------


## garazza

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP4m...st=WL&index=15

Williamson made a brief appearance and said issue 4 will be all about Damian and Ra's training on the beach and issue 5 features all the Robins and they will have a "rooftop race."

----------


## adrikito

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP4m...st=WL&index=15
> 
> Williamson made a brief appearance and said issue 4 will be all about Damian and Ra's training on the beach and issue 5 features all the Robins and they will have a "rooftop race."


THANKS for the information.  :Cool: 

WOW.. The first ROBIN 4 review is 9/10.. The only negative point was* Not tournament*

https://aiptcomics.com/2021/07/27/robin-4-review/

----------


## dietrich

> THANKS for the information. 
> 
> WOW.. The first ROBIN 4 review is 9/10.. The only negative point was* Not tournament*
> 
> https://aiptcomics.com/2021/07/27/robin-4-review/


Every single issue has been a perfect 10 for me. This title is by far the best thing I'm reading at the moment.

It's sad that it's not being talked about as much as it should.

----------


## dietrich

Unlikely but Goals for issue 5. I don't want Damian as a regular in Nightwing but I hope they part amicably in Robin Issue 5.

@Blue22 Agree. Ideally we should have the best of both worlds [balancing developing Damian's batfam relationships and his outside relationships] but DC seems to be a firm believer in the *'treat em mean, Keep em keen'*  ideology

----------


## dietrich

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP4m...st=WL&index=15
> 
> Williamson made a brief appearance and said issue 4 will be all about Damian and Ra's training on the beach and issue 5 features all the Robins and they will have a "rooftop race."


Phew! So they are racing no fighting.

----------


## Eckri

Not about the latest Robin issue but Jon's comic, Superman - Son of Kal-El.

Damian is in it.

*spoilers:*
It's nice that Damian and Jon are still best friends even with the age-gap, we haven't seen them interact since then. Damian encouraging Jon, and telling him that if he wants a new identity then he'll work on it. Seems like Damian and Jon are somewhat similar ages now, I think I'm growing on adult Jon now
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Rac7d*

> Unlikely but Goals for issue 5. I don't want Damian as a regular in Nightwing but I hope they part amicably in Robin Issue 5.
> 
> @Blue22 Agree. Ideally we should have the best of both worlds [balancing developing Damian's batfam relationships and his outside relationships] but DC seems to be a firm believer in the *'treat em mean, Keep em keen'*  ideology


I can’t see beyond this current arc right now but I wouldn’t mind if Damian migrated to Bludhaven.

----------


## Rac7d*

E559CE67-A2C7-4B5B-85B7-88885EF9D737.jpg

This is why supers can’t visit Gotham 
That power set breaks the detective aspect and struggle

----------


## Shen

> E559CE67-A2C7-4B5B-85B7-88885EF9D737.jpg
> 
> This is why supers can’t visit Gotham 
> That power set breaks the detective aspect and struggle


DamiJon shippers: Write that down, Write that down!

----------


## adrikito

> DamiJon shippers: Write that down, Write that down!


.... Yes. I am sure that they take note of every Supersons or think that mentions both that they think that benefits their ship. Ignoring a fact that even a Supersons hater like me knows.. They have GRANDSONS.. How they think that is possible?


I am sure that they enjoyed that interview that mentioned that the age difference between both is 3 years again.. OK. Teen porn now. like with Tim and Kon. In the end I will miss the 10 years Damian and the world without Superkid..


The romance between Flatline did not started yet and some Damijons were bothering Williamson... Some even asking to make Damian BI. Guys even if I hate it I do not interfere with your SHIP posts. Don´t bother DC writers.

----------


## Frontier

> E559CE67-A2C7-4B5B-85B7-88885EF9D737.jpg
> 
> This is why supers can’t visit Gotham 
> That power set breaks the detective aspect and struggle


Honestly the age difference doesn't seem that prominent here.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Attachment 111888
> 
> This is why supers can’t visit Gotham 
> That power set breaks the detective aspect and struggle


About Jon listening to Damian's heartbeat, wonder what he thought when Damian was temporary dead by Flatline

----------


## Light of Justice

> Honestly the age difference doesn't seem that prominent here.


Yeah Damian doesn't look so short in front of Jon anymore


Although he still looks so tiny in his own book (or maybe because he was drawn by Corona)

----------


## hairys

> I am sure that they enjoyed that interview that mentioned *that the age difference between both is 3 years again*.. OK. Teen porn now. like with Tim and Kon. In the end I will miss the 10 years Damian and the world without Superkid..


Help me out with this.

So Jon is 17 and Damian is 14, and in Super Sons Damian is 14 and Jon is 11?  Is that how that works?

Thanks.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Help me out with this.
> 
> So Jon is 17 and Damian is 14, and in Super Sons Damian is 14 and Jon is 11?  Is that how that works?
> 
> Thanks.


In supersons Damian is 13 and Jon is 10, but yeah now Damian is 14 and Jon is 17

----------


## adrikito

> Help me out with this.
> 
> So Jon is 17 and Damian is 14, and in Super Sons Damian is 14 and Jon is 11?  Is that how that works?
> 
> Thanks.


SORRY. I have no Idea because I do not see it.. In Supersons Damian was always the TROLLED when I saw it having 2 main characters the comic. Enough to end tired.

After see Damian transformed in a Grandpa(and the TROLLING here for that) while the TT and Superkid had to find the man who made I decided renounce to it here.


Now I even dislike more this friendship for the shippers. I found images with them that I prefer FORGET and without search for porn.(twitter, deviantart or pivix)  :Mad: 




> Yeah Damian doesn't look so short in front of Jon anymore


Hmmm.. and Rose called him shortly(despite be slightly higher than him now) to Damian... Hmm. I hope that DC takes this seriously and do not make him short again.

----------


## KrustyKid

Great issue, really enjoyed Damian and the Ra's interactions

----------


## adrikito

> Great issue, really enjoyed Damian and the Ra's interactions


I thought he would shave but I was wrong ..  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Drako

> Although he still looks so tiny in his own book (or maybe because he was drawn by Corona)


Jesus! This looks awful.
Hopefully Gleb is back in the next issue.

----------


## adrikito

> Jesus! This looks awful.
> Hopefully Gleb is back in the next issue.


I was thinking the same when I saw Grayson face..

----------


## dietrich

> .... Yes. I am sure that they take note of every Supersons or think that mentions both that they think that benefits their ship. Ignoring a fact that even a Supersons hater like me knows.. They have GRANDSONS.. How they think that is possible?
> 
> 
> I am sure that they enjoyed that interview that mentioned that the age difference between both is 3 years again.. OK. Teen porn now. like with Tim and Kon. In the end I will miss the 10 years Damian and the world without Superkid..
> 
> 
> The romance between Flatline did not started yet and some Damijons were bothering Williamson... Some even asking to make Damian BI. Guys even if I hate it I do not interfere with your SHIP posts. Don´t bother DC writers.


Adrikito lots of gay and bi men have GRANDSONS. That's pretty common. A lot of gay and bi men get married, have kids or remain in the Closet till late in life.

Supersons shipping isn't just about Teen porn. That's dangerous thinking. A lot of LGBTQ teens have relationships just like Straight teens so maybe some of these shippers are simply teens looking for rep.

----------


## Blue22

Holy shit, Dick looks like Vince Vaughn XD

Other than that, this was a really good issue. Damian continues to be the best thing about DC right now. Really digging hippie Ra's too. It's nice, getting to see different sides of him. I can't even remember the last time (if there was a last time) where he was a genuinely good grandfather. But I'm glad he made it clear that this is just a little break. Really excited to see all my Robins together again next month.

As for....the other book that Damian was in today, I'm sure it'll shock no one but I'm still not the least bit on board. If anyone has the power to change my mind, it's Taylor. But so far even his writing can't salvage what Jon has become for me. And his moment with Damian was....alright. Not anywhere near as bad as Bendis or PKJ's moments with those two. But it still doesn't feel....right. Just...everything about Jon has lost its charm now. Even his friendship with Damian. And that was the one thing I was expecting Taylor to sell me on since he did so well with it in the past. But oh well. That's only strike one. He's still got two more issues to change my mind.

----------


## dietrich

> Yeah Damian doesn't look so short in front of Jon anymore
> 
> 
> Although he still looks so tiny in his own book (or maybe because he was drawn by Corona)


Good to see Steph here.

I like that Damian is shorter in the Robin cover. He should be shorter than Tim not to mention that if Damian was any taller in that cover then it would have looked even more off.

Damian and Jason shouldn't be close in height.

Damian and Tim looking so different and yet both being Robin is cool. 

Colourful Robin and Stealth Ninja Robin. Nice.

----------


## dietrich

> Holy shit
> 
> Damian continues to be the best thing about DC right now. .


Facts.

10 chara

----------


## Blue22

> Good to see Steph here.
> 
> I like that Damian is shorter in the Robin cover. He should be shorter than Tim not to mention that if Damian was any taller in that cover then it would have looked even more off.
> 
> Damian and Jason shouldn't be close in height.
> 
> Damian and Tim looking so different and yet both being Robin is cool. 
> 
> Colourful Robin and Stealth Ninja Robin. Nice.


Unfortunately the big issue is that Tim is *still* Robin XD

And yeah, it's great that Steph is here. I love how DC has been embracing the fact that, yes, she was Robin just like the others.

----------


## dietrich

> Unfortunately the big issue is that Tim is *still* Robin XD
> 
> And yeah, it's great that Steph is here. I love how DC has been embracing the fact that, yes, she was Robin just like the others.


Eternally Robin. There's a lot standing in the way of Tim's progress/evolution.

I'm not sure if he'll ever stop being robin or Robinlike

----------


## Blue22

> Eternally Robin. There's a lot standing in the way of Tim's progress/evolution.
> 
> I'm not sure if he'll ever stop being robin or Robinlike


Honestly, I was fine with him being Red Robin. And I really loved his New 52 costume. He should have just stayed there if they couldn't think of anything better to give him besides his old mantle or...his fucking last name.

----------


## adrikito

> Adrikito lots of gay and bi men have GRANDSONS. That's pretty common. A lot of gay and bi men get married, have kids or remain in the Closet till late in life.
> 
> Supersons shipping isn't just about Teen porn. That's dangerous thinking. A lot of LGBTQ teens have relationships just like Straight teens so maybe some of these shippers are simply teens looking for rep.


They will put all their faith in it because there are not old wifes appearing here with them...  :Frown: 

I would like to think that is a dangerous thinking but... I learned about them in the WORST WAY(watching their most extreme images) and without search for anything inappropriate.

I had to search in internet to remember what was *LGBTQ*.. I can´t understand what has Damian that attracts them.. He appeared many times and the people shipped him with a lot of girls before.. 

He is not a *queer*. At least not after TT run.(or Green arrow with Emiko) *Something that makes me think.. Why want to change him?? It was already decided. You are not his/her fan? Or Damian is only a popular character to put in him your own ideas?* 


I thought that he was Asexual long time ago(people comments) but... I highly doubt that even that would help here. It will only create the excuse to force this FOREVER.


Some people even thinks that for his Mother family roots is the kind of person that deserves a harem..HAHAHAHA.. I always saw this funny. I think that is not the kind of guy that would enjoy this

----------


## Rac7d*

> Good to see Steph here.
> 
> I like that Damian is shorter in the Robin cover. He should be shorter than Tim not to mention that if Damian was any taller in that cover then it would have looked even more off.
> 
> 
> 
> Damian and Tim looking so different and yet both being Robin is cool.Nice.


Not for much longer is Damian keeps again and Tim stays 17

----------


## Shen

This Robin series is FIRE!!! 

Worth the wait, and I understand why the reason why 'No Tournament' was the only reason it got a 9/10 - the build up just leaves you craving more, one month can't go by fast enough!

----------


## Blue22

> This Robin series is FIRE!!! 
> 
> Worth the wait, and I understand why the reason why 'No Tournament' was the only reason it got a 9/10 - the build up just leaves you craving more, one month can't go by fast enough!


Seriously. Never have I ever wished for a series to be bimonthly as much as I have with this book.

----------


## Arsenal

> Not for much longer is Damian keeps again and Tim stays 17


At the rate Damian is growing he's likely to hit 18 before Tim does.

----------


## adrikito

> Seriously. Never have I ever wished for a series to be bimonthly as much as I have with this book.


I think the same..

I received one Disappointing news in my phone that will make me avoid one comic...

Deathstroke apparently is NOT slade in this moment. BENDIS FAULT AGAIN... 

https://screenrant.com/justice-leagu...-slade-wilson/

So. I will not read Deathstroke Inc. I lost the interest. I did not even readed the page. It really frustated me.. 

It was not enough with RESPAWN??

----------


## adrikito

Mother Soul could be Ra´s mother??? Is weird that after talk about her he mentioned his own mother later.. With Lazarus Pits existence is not impossible.

I will miss this Ra´s design..

Damian and Ra´s interactions here were interesting. Even without the tournament I liked the issue.

Interesting. Rose knows this Respawn. Despite with him dressing like that is not a surprise. I never thought that it would be Rose fault that the Ex-ROBINS discovered him.

----------


## HsssH

I found it kinda cool that Raptor killed Hawke. We didn't see it, but Williamson gave something back for Dick's new villain. Maybe in proper tournament they'll fight again? 
That last page was ugly.

And yeah, Mother Soul is probably somehow connected to Ra's since this entire arc seems to be about family.

----------


## Digifiend

> Ben Percy was writing Emiko in Green Arrow, but did he write Teen Titans? There was an interview on Newsarama mentioning that crush, but I don't remember the writer.


Yes, Benjamin Percy did indeed write the Rebirth Teen Titans series. He was later replaced by Adam Glass, and then Robbie Thompson, before the book relaunched as Teen Titans Academy with Tim Sheridan.




> Not about the latest Robin issue but Jon's comic, Superman - Son of Kal-El.
> 
> Damian is in it.
> 
> *spoilers:*
> It's nice that Damian and Jon are still best friends even with the age-gap, we haven't seen them interact since then. Damian encouraging Jon, and telling him that if he wants a new identity then he'll work on it. Seems like Damian and Jon are somewhat similar ages now, I think I'm growing on adult Jon now
> *end of spoilers*


Age gap is the same as it always was - three years. The only difference is that Jon's the older one now.



> I think the same..
> 
> I received one Disappointing news in my phone that will make me avoid one comic...
> 
> Deathstroke apparently is NOT slade in this moment. BENDIS FAULT AGAIN... 
> 
> https://screenrant.com/justice-leagu...-slade-wilson/
> 
> So. I will not read Deathstroke Inc. I lost the interest. I did not even readed the page. It really frustated me.. 
> ...


Surely the fact it's Deathstroke *Inc* means there's more than one Deathstroke? Like how Batman Inc had many Batmen?

----------


## hairys

Right, I'm not sure I would leap to any conclusion that Slade Wilson won't be in Deathstroke Inc.

----------


## adrikito

> Yes, Benjamin Percy did indeed write the Rebirth Teen Titans series. He was later replaced by Adam Glass, and then Robbie Thompson, before the book relaunched as Teen Titans Academy with Tim Sheridan.
> 
> 
> Age gap is the same as it always was - three years. The only difference is that Jon's the older one now.
> Surely the fact it's Deathstroke *Inc* means there's more than one Deathstroke? Like how Batman Inc had many Batmen?


Hmmmm... I forgot what the solicitation said about it.

Anyway I can´t see why Slade would want many people dressing like him... To cheat the Heroes trying to kill someone?

----------


## Eckri

I'm digging Hippie Hobo Ra's al Ghul, him and Damian bonding is what the kid needs, when compared to the last Grand-father to Grand-son bonding that happened with him. And that Shojo Manga panel with him terrified at himself, just foreshadows what might come after this tournament arc.

This is Damian's training arc to be concluded with the Robin issue 5. 

You know this begs the question, if Ravager recently informed the Robins that Damian is participating in the tournament of death. 
This means that Bruce also knows, leading to the questions: 

What would be Batman's reaction?
Did they know that he killed people on the island?  
If they were informed by Ravager that he is on the island, what kind of excuse would they have to leave him on Death's Island?

Obvious answer would be is that they believed the kid, but I doubt Batman would let the kid just go on Mortal Kombat, he'll probably have a plan in case, maybe a panel where Batman was ready to swoop in to save the kid.

----------


## Morgoth

Just my assumption, but I believe that Damian will reveal to them, that his real plan is to bring Alfred back, by winning tournament and getting access to Lazarus Pit. And that's why they will let him to participate.
And Bruce himself probably arrives at the end of arc, to get Damian out of the island, after tournament ends (and we know it won't end well).

----------


## Astralabius

> Just my assumption, but I believe that Damian will reveal to them, that his real plan is to bring Alfred back, by winning tournament and getting access to Lazarus Pit. And that's why they will let him to participate.
> And Bruce himself probably arrives at the end of arc, to get Damian out of the island, after tournament ends (and we know it won't end well).


Williamson did mention that they would talk about Alfred in issue 5, but maybe that's just because Alfred's death played a part in Damian leaving the family. If it is Damian's plan to bring him back that way I'm not sure if the others would agree. Using Lazarus Pits to revive loved ones is a bit controversial. If they all thought this was a good idea they would have brought him back after taking the city back from Bane/Flashpoint Batman, but instead Bruce buried Alfred.

I'm not sure if Bruce will show up on the island. Williamson said that they talked about what would happen if he found out where Damian was and in the end they agreed that in this situation they would come up with a reason for why Bruce doesn't go there immediately.
I assume they will simply say that Bruce is busy being Batman and that is why he sent the others.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Just my assumption, but I believe that Damian will reveal to them, that his real plan is to bring Alfred back, by winning tournament and getting access to Lazarus Pit. And that's why they will let him to participate.
> And Bruce himself probably arrives at the end of arc, to get Damian out of the island, after tournament ends (and we know it won't end well).


I feel like Lazarus pits are not hard to find for an al ghoul

----------


## Restingvoice

> I feel like Lazarus pits are not hard to find for an al ghoul


Ra's and Talia would know but Damian's been out of the Ghul fam and beside Batman for years for them to share
In the past Batman destroys the pits so Ra's can't be resurrected

----------


## Light of Justice

> Williamson did mention that they would talk about Alfred in issue 5, but maybe that's just because Alfred's death played a part in Damian leaving the family. If it is Damian's plan to bring him back that way I'm not sure if the others would agree. Using Lazarus Pits to revive loved ones is a bit controversial. If they all thought this was a good idea they would have brought him back after taking the city back from Bane/Flashpoint Batman, but instead Bruce buried Alfred.
> 
> I'm not sure if Bruce will show up on the island. Williamson said that they talked about what would happen if he found out where Damian was and in the end they agreed that in this situation they would come up with a reason for why Bruce doesn't go there immediately.
> I assume they will simply say that Bruce is busy being Batman and that is why he sent the others.


Somehow I think Damian will lie to them, or at least give them half truth. I can't see anyone, even Jason, approve entering killing tournament for Alfred's resurrection. 

Either Batman is busy or Rose asks then to not invite Batman. Either way, Batman recently is indeed to busy playing with Tynion's OCs

----------


## Light of Justice

Injustice Animated leak : the ugh.... scene

----------


## Jackalope89

> Injustice Animated leak : the ugh.... scene


Ugh. At least Injustice 2 had Lobo as a Green Lantern in the comics. Although it didn't last long (he only wore it until the threat was over), but it was a fun moment in an otherwise grim series.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Somehow I think Damian will lie to them, or at least give them half truth. I can't see anyone, even Jason, approve entering killing tournament for Alfred's resurrection. 
> 
> Either Batman is busy or Rose asks then to not invite Batman. Either way, Batman recently is indeed to busy playing with Tynion's OCs


Well, Jason as actually brought from the dead. Something only Damian can say. Only question is; will Williamson go with digging out of the grave, or being dunked in the pit?

Either way, Jason is no fan of the Lazarus Pits.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Injustice Animated leak : the ugh.... scene


Not excited for this, but it’ll b nice to see Damian as Nightwing. He’s the only one I can see taking his mantle and doing it justice

----------


## Blue22

Yeah as much as I'm not big on proteges taking their mentors' names, I'd always rather see Damian grow up to be Nightwing than Batman. That was the one good idea the Injustice games had with Damian. It's just a shame that it had to happen the way that it did....

----------


## Zaresh

> Ugh. At least Injustice 2 had Lobo as a Green Lantern in the comics. Although it didn't last long (he only wore it until the threat was over), but it was a fun moment in an otherwise grim series.


I was there reading for Blue Beetle, to be honest.

----------


## adrikito

Injustice again..  :Mad:  Not interested in see Dick Grayson dead again.  :Frown:  

Damian ruined neither..  :Frown:  Fortunately I know that is Injustice(A film that will create more Damian haters) and I will avoid it.

----------


## Tofali

> Mother Soul could be Ra´s mother??? Is weird that after talk about her he mentioned his own mother later.. With Lazarus Pits existence is not impossible.
> 
> I will miss this Ra´s design..
> 
> Damian and Ra´s interactions here were interesting. Even without the tournament I liked the issue.


I hope there is a mini series centered around Zen Ra's. He was the most captivating character in this issue and I loved his Interaction with Damian.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Injustice again..  Not interested in see Dick Grayson dead again.  
> 
> Damian ruined neither..  Fortunately I know that is Injustice(A film that will create more Damian haters) and I will avoid it.


He was better in the comics everyone else was the hater

----------


## Eckri

Alright let's bring in the Injustice movie. 

I just they change on thing, the way Damian accidentally kills Dick. 

The way he died was dumb and idiotic, there could have been better ways for Damian to cause Dick's death.

----------


## Katana500

> Injustice again..  Not interested in see Dick Grayson dead again.  
> 
> Damian ruined neither..  Fortunately I know that is Injustice(A film that will create more Damian haters) and I will avoid it.


If Injustice is popular which it probably will be. We will probably get a sequel which may be good for Damian as he really started becoming alot more likeable in injustice once Kara shows up later in story.

----------


## Eckri

> If Injustice is popular which it probably will be. We will probably get a sequel which may be good for Damian as he really started becoming alot more likeable in injustice once Kara shows up later in story.


The movie looks to just be covering Year One of the comics. 
If it does get popular we won't be seeing likeable Damian in quite a while.

----------


## adrikito

> If Injustice is popular which it probably will be. We will probably get a sequel which may be good for Damian as he really started becoming alot more likeable in injustice once Kara shows up later in story.


If they are animating INJUSTICE GAME(not the manga) I would not expect any mercy with Damian without matter if is Injustice I or Injustice II...

I can not understand how a world were your heroes are ruined is this popular.. Wonderwoman is the biggest BITCH possible in the game. Superman the worst character or maybe that after WW.. Sometimes I think that she is worst and using the Amazons helped him a lot to make this.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

I'm not happy about the Injustice movie and I'm dreading it already, but we should remember that Injustice is already known and popular, more positive versions of Damian had more exposures over the years and this is just an animated movie, it won't affect main comic continuity. 

Damian will sadly get hate because of it, but eventually something new will come and people will move on. Let's just hope a Super Sons animated movie is in their plans!

----------


## adrikito

> Damian will sadly get hate because of it, but eventually something new will come and people will move on. Let's just hope a Super Sons animated movie is in their plans!


I will pray to not see this happening..

If *Dietrich* is right the *LGBTQ&Damijon* would show more interest in Damian. Pivix is full or disturbing Damijon images. He does not need more interest in him for that people part.


I can´t understand what has that comic that makes them love it like that and want to force that relationship.

----------


## Fergus

Exactly Fifteen Years Ago, Damian Wayne made his debut in Batman #655 (Art by Gleb Melnikov)

----------


## Fergus

> Injustice Animated leak : the ugh.... scene


I'm actually looking forward to this.

Shouldn't be that worried about Haters since this will most likely be watched mostly by fans who like DC animated movies.

They already know Damian. The ones who enjoy Damian won't hate [too much] and those who don't like him will hate regardless so it's all the same.

----------


## sifighter

> I'm actually looking forward to this.
> 
> Shouldn't be that worried about Haters since this will most likely be watched mostly by fans who like DC animated movies.
> 
> They already know Damian. The ones who enjoy Damian won't hate [too much] and those who don't like him will hate regardless so it's all the same.


Also after a good number of years of games and comics, honestly I expect whoever is going to watch this movie is already a fan of the series and is well aware of the Damian plot line. 

I mean I know people dislike Injustice, it’s not for everyone I get that, but it’s because of that I kind of believe that those who will actually see this movie would only trash it if done poorly.

----------


## adrikito

> Exactly Fifteen Years Ago, Damian Wayne made his debut in Batman #655 (Art by Gleb Melnikov)


I think that I saw this before... But with Damian wearing his current costume.

15 years ago... HAPPY BIRTHDAY DAMIAN??

----------


## CPSparkles

Can't believe it's been 15 years




Baby damian 
https://0yongyong0.tumblr.com




https://grayfoj.tumblr.com

----------


## NexusTenebrare

> I will pray to not see this happening..
> 
> If *Dietrich* is right the *LGBTQ&Damijon* would show more interest in Damian. Pivix is full or disturbing Damijon images. He does not need more interest in him for that people part.
> 
> 
> I can´t understand what has that comic that makes them love it like that and want to force that relationship.


You know, you're right. Damian and Jon sucks. As much as all those pairings writers try to push down our throats with rando girls like Maps, Maya, Raven, etc., etc., etc.

Damian's best potential partner is and always has been Colin Wilkes.

----------


## Blue22

While I do miss Colin, a lot, and right now I'd love to see him go back to being Damian's best friend over Jon, let's not confuse Damian's actual relationship with Jon as being intentionally romantic just because there's a certain sect of fans who think it is. From what most of these complaints boil down to, it seems like the main reason he doesn't like Super Sons is because fans go too far with the art and fics and all that other junk. But like..if we let toxic ass fandoms dictate what we like, there wouldn't be fans of anything. I'd miss out on SO many things that I love if I wrote them off because of an out of control fanbase (RWBY, Steven Universe, Naruto...comics in general)

Like or dislike something for what it actually is. Not for what other people want it to be.

I love the old Super Sons. I don't ship Jon and Damian together because I love the confirmed *brotherly* relationship the two had. People are more than welcome to see it as more than that. That's their prerogative. But it has no influence on how I feel about those two. It's not gonna ruin them for me. DC already did that. So if we're never getting the old Super Sons back (Not even in like a cartoon or out of continuity book) then yeah. I'm down for replacing Jon with Colin.




> Injustice again..  Not interested in see Dick Grayson dead again.  
> 
> Damian ruined neither..  Fortunately I know that is Injustice(A film that will create more Damian haters) and I will avoid it.


Honestly I'm more upset about that awful take on Wonder Woman getting more exposure than I am about Damian. Like....I hate Injustice Damian (even when he starts to get somewhat better) but those games straight up murder Diana's character, to the point where I can't help but wonder if anyone at Neatherrealm studios has actually ever seen or read anything with her in it.

----------


## adrikito

> Honestly I'm more upset about that awful take on Wonder Woman getting more exposure than I am about Damian. Like....I hate Injustice Damian (even when he starts to get somewhat better) but those games straight up murder Diana's character, to the point where I can't help but wonder if anyone at Neatherrealm studios has actually ever seen or read anything with her in it.


YEAH. Wonderwoman is terrible in this universe.(maybe even worst than Superman). She helped to make Superman even worst using the amazons to control the world and who knows how many things.

Damian death for Wonderwoman fault only showed how terrible is her(One old Regime member like Damian only deserves death for not be with them now.) here that even the same Superman who had his old friend batman as slave(using brainiac tech) regretted about it in Injustice&Masters Universe.

Taylor made Damian more likeable in Injustice II comic regretting about how he used him in Injustice I.. In that comic I did not had problems with him.

----------


## dietrich

> They will put all their faith in it because there are not old wifes appearing here with them... 
> 
> I would like to think that is a dangerous thinking but... I learned about them in the WORST WAY(watching their most extreme images) and without search for anything inappropriate.
> 
> I had to search in internet to remember what was *LGBTQ*.. I can´t understand what has Damian that attracts them.. He appeared many times and the people shipped him with a lot of girls before.. 
> 
> He is not a *queer*. At least not after TT run.(or Green arrow with Emiko) *Something that makes me think.. Why want to change him?? It was already decided. You are not his/her fan? Or Damian is only a popular character to put in him your own ideas?* 
> 
> 
> ...



I am * 'queer'* and I have tried dating girls in the past because *'that was normal'*

the more you know.

While I don't believe that Damian is LGBTQ, canon has never really stopped shippers.

Stop watching the extreme images. try simply searching for fan art on google it seems to be safer. I can't recall the last time I came across NSFW art while using goggle to search.

----------


## Fergus

Injustice 2  a short Behind the scenes with some of the creatives

----------


## PowerPlay25

In the latest Robin, Damian attacked Ra's Al Ghul, yelling it Ra's can't give him advice after everything he's done to Damian himself and "my Father, my Mother."  Did we ever see Talia tell Damian about what happened too her in Death and the Maidens.   It was the only time I can remember Ra's Al Ghul, actively hurting Talia.   

After Nyssa had brainwashed her, Talia still couldn't bring herself to stab him.   Ra's Al Ghul took the knife and stabbed Talia, letting her bleed out and telling Batman, "She's nothing to me now, she was never going to be ready."  I can't imagine Bruce discussing these events with Damian.

It would have had to be Talia right?

----------


## Restingvoice

> In the latest Robin, Damian attacked Ra's Al Ghul, yelling it Ra's can't give him advice after everything he's done to Damian himself and "my Father, my Mother."  Did we ever see Talia tell Damian about what happened too her in Death and the Maidens.   It was the only time I can remember Ra's Al Ghul, actively hurting Talia.   
> 
> After Nyssa had brainwashed her, Talia still couldn't bring herself to stab him.   Ra's Al Ghul took the knife and stabbed Talia, letting her bleed out and telling Batman, "She's nothing to me now, she was never going to be ready."  I can't imagine Bruce discussing these events with Damian.
> 
> It would have had to be Talia right?


Talia being abused by Ra's is like a common lore now. Morrison made Ra's killing her mother to be Talia's start of darkness. Tom King made Ra's train Talia and if she dies, she'll be put in The Pit over and over. Arkham City has him threaten to kill her if Batman won't join him. It's like this modern interpretation that every author seems to have agreed.

----------


## HsssH

Is Batman and Outsiders worth reading? As I understand it bridges the gap between Batman/Superman 7-8 and Ra's appearance in latest Robin issue, no?

----------


## Rac7d*

> Talia being abused by Ra's is like a common lore now. Morrison made Ra's killing her mother to be Talia's start of darkness. Tom King made Ra's train Talia and if she dies, she'll be put in The Pit over and over. Arkham City has him threaten to kill her if Batman won't join him. It's like this modern interpretation that every author seems to have agreed.


I am kinda realizing that talia is the Electra of DC huh

----------


## Fergus

> Is Batman and Outsiders worth reading? As I understand it bridges the gap between Batman/Superman 7-8 and Ra's appearance in latest Robin issue, no?


It's decent enough. The Ra's plot doesn't tie into those other titles.

I was reading for Duke but it didn't really do much of substance with him

----------


## Light of Justice

From Twitter : @gutterboyspod

*we’re talking with DC comics superstar & current artist of ROBIN, 
@GlebMelnikov8
 tomorrow for the next episode of the show. if you have any questions for big gleb or for us to answer, leave em.*
https://twitter.com/gutterboyspod/st...619753984?s=20

----------


## dietrich

> From Twitter : @gutterboyspod
> 
> *we’re talking with DC comics superstar & current artist of ROBIN, 
> @GlebMelnikov8
>  tomorrow for the next episode of the show. if you have any questions for big gleb or for us to answer, leave em.*
> https://twitter.com/gutterboyspod/st...619753984?s=20


Thank you @light

----------


## adrikito

> From Twitter : @gutterboyspod
> 
> *we’re talking with DC comics superstar & current artist of ROBIN, 
> @GlebMelnikov8
>  tomorrow for the next episode of the show. if you have any questions for big gleb or for us to answer, leave em.*
> https://twitter.com/gutterboyspod/st...619753984?s=20



I hope that we can learn something interesting here.

----------


## adrikito

From GLEB TWITTER..  She reminds me the Manga girl..

robincomicpreview.jpg

----------


## Drako

Much better now! Art from Robin #5

----------


## adrikito

> Much better now! Art from Robin #5


AWESOME.. This is a GREAT IMPROVE if we compare it with ROBIN 4 last page.

Anyway if we return to Robin 1 we see that Dick for example looks like here too... We were a little unlucky with Robin 4 artist.. Saying little because I think that Goliath and Ra´s looked good there.

----------


## Eckri

> Much better now! Art from Robin #5


Rooftop chase, and of course Dick is in the lead and almost catching up to Damian. 

And now we know that after this issue the next story beat is Jon's comic, then the next robin issue.

----------


## dietrich

> Rooftop chase, and of course Dick is in the lead and almost catching up to Damian. 
> 
> And now we know that after this issue the next story beat is Jon's comic, then the next robin issue.


Damian should be much faster than that. He is a bullet dodger

----------


## scary harpy

> Rooftop chase, and of course Dick is in the lead and almost catching up to Damian. 
> 
> And now we know that after this issue the next story beat is Jon's comic, then the next robin issue.





> Damian should be much faster than that. He is a bullet dodger


Damian looks in the lead to me.

----------


## Blue22

> Much better now! Art from Robin #5




Look at them! All five of my Robins! Together for the first time in....Actually....I think this IS the first time they've all been together. Williamson, once again proving my money is well spent on this series  :Big Grin:

----------


## Drako

> Damian should be much faster than that. He is a bullet dodger


Every Robin has dodged bullets.
Dick was doing by Year One.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Much better now! Art from Robin #5



Is Damian running away from his brother's? This is his big plan should his family/batman come looking for him?

----------


## Eckri

> Is Damian running away from his brother's? This is his big plan should his family/batman come looking for him?


Considering that Rose just ratted him out to the Family, Damian not wanting anywhere near them at the current moment, and the next story beat after the upcoming issue continues in Son of Kal-El. 
This the rooftop chase which will probably mostly dialogue, and bonding. In addition, Dick does give Damian a present, so it's just rooftop chase bonding.

----------


## marhawkman

> Considering that Rose just ratted him out to the Family, Damian not wanting anywhere near them at the current moment, and the next story beat after the upcoming issue continues in Son of Kal-El. 
> This the rooftop chase which will probably mostly dialogue, and bonding. In addition, Dick does give Damian a present, so it's just rooftop chase bonding.


Sooo... mostly just cardio?

----------


## Light of Justice

> Sooo... mostly just cardio?


His new heart needs some trainings

----------


## the1&onlyE.

Damian will be on Urban Legends next month as Batman 666, by Tim Seeley and Juan Ferreyra!

----------


## HsssH

Nice to see that Alfred is still around  :Smile:

----------


## Blue22

Ugh. Figures we finally get a Damian story in one of these and it's one of my least favorite takes on him. Better than nothing, I guess.

----------


## dietrich

> Damian will be on Urban Legends next month as Batman 666, by Tim Seeley and Juan Ferreyra!


Seeley doing 666! This should be good.

----------


## dietrich

> Nice to see that Alfred is still around


Yeah but does he talk a la Damian Son of Batman  :Stick Out Tongue: 

How long do cat's live? Surely we must be up Alfred no 5?

----------


## adrikito

Damian initial reaction to the kiss? Is not easy shock him.  

In the 2nd Flatline appears and someone "unknown"(probably Damian) face too(you only see their faces) making me think that is the post-kiss image.

Damian Wayne Robin.jpg

Flatline Robin.jpg

----------


## dietrich

> Damian initial reaction to the kiss? Is not easy shock him.  
> 
> In the 2nd Flatline appears and someone "unknown"(probably Damian) face too(you only see their faces) making me think that is the post-kiss image.
> 
> Damian Wayne Robin.jpg
> 
> Flatline Robin.jpg


I really like these two. I love the way she looks at him. I def ship these two. Very cute

----------


## adrikito

Gleb posted another 2 images too... 

One with Rose attacking someone who reminds me BANE FATHER.(bah. It should be someone from the tournament).. and one Sketch with Rose and Connor

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E76kxJFX...jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E8X7E-lX...jpg&name=large




> I really like these two. I love the way she looks at him. I def ship these two. Very cute


I should admit that I liked them too.. Damian is nervous in the first image.

----------


## dietrich

> Gleb posted another 2 images too... 
> 
> One with Rose attacking someone who reminds me BANE FATHER.(bah. It should be someone from the tournament).. and one Sketch with Rose and Connor
> 
> 
> I should admit that I liked them too.. Damian is nervous in the first image.


I like this one of Rose and Connor.

I hope DC has long term plans for these two. I'd like for them to carry on being part of Damian's circle in the Robin book but I also hope they have a role in the upcoming Deathstroke and GA projects that Williamson teased.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Damian will be on Urban Legends next month as Batman 666, by Tim Seeley and Juan Ferreyra!


Is he flashing his bald head without a cowl? Somehow it's so funny for me XD

----------


## Light of Justice

> Yeah but does he talk a la Damian Son of Batman 
> 
> How long do cat's live? Surely we must be up Alfred no 5?


Cats can live till 20 years, and Damian got Alfred the Cat as kitten. It's possible that Alfred is still alive when Damian is 30 years old, also Damian has access for Lazarus Pit after all

----------


## Light of Justice

> Damian initial reaction to the kiss? Is not easy shock him.  
> 
> In the 2nd Flatline appears and someone "unknown"(probably Damian) face too(you only see their faces) making me think that is the post-kiss image.
> 
> Damian Wayne Robin.jpg
> 
> Flatline Robin.jpg


Gleb's drawing is so good. And yeah, if there will be a kiss, Damian definitely will be in denial about it

----------


## Darkspellmaster

Wait, I'm confused, what kiss happened with Damian?

----------


## adrikito

> Damian will be on Urban Legends next month as Batman 666, by Tim Seeley and Juan Ferreyra!


Interesting... Even now is still weird see one Bald Damian.. I liked more Beyond Damian appearance.

----------


## adrikito

> Wait, I'm confused, what kiss happened with Damian?


You never saw ROBIN 7 solicitation?

Robin 7 Cover.jpg

It was the smooch heard ‘round the world…and it’s the one thing Damian Wayne DIDN’T see coming his way in the Lazarus Tournament! As Robin battles for the secrets of eternal life against the deadliest killers on the planet, can he—will he—DARE HE—survive…a girlfriend?

----------


## Darkspellmaster

> You never saw ROBIN 7 solicitation?
> 
> Robin 7 Cover.jpg
> 
> It was the smooch heard ‘round the world…and it’s the one thing Damian Wayne DIDN’T see coming his way in the Lazarus Tournament! As Robin battles for the secrets of eternal life against the deadliest killers on the planet, can he—will he—DARE HE—survive…a girlfriend?


Nope didn't catch that. Though given that he's going to be probably going back home, I'm guessing that it's a ploy by her. Though l have to point out that Flatline is a long line of darker/bad girls that writers seem to like to pair with him at times. Maya (who was more like a sister though people liked that), Ollie's younger sister, I can't think of her name at the moment but Crush's girlfriend. The only ones that were not "Darker" types that have some chemistry with him were Supergirl (Kara) pre-52, and Jon (who's a guy). 

I'm okay with them, but do we really have to go down yet another Bat/Cat like romance for the Batbooks?

----------


## garazza

> Nope didn't catch that. Though given that he's going to be probably going back home, I'm guessing that it's a ploy by her. Though l have to point out that Flatline is a long line of darker/bad girls that writers seem to like to pair with him at times. Maya (who was more like a sister though people liked that), Ollie's younger sister, I can't think of her name at the moment but Crush's girlfriend. The only ones that were not "Darker" types that have some chemistry with him were Supergirl (Kara) pre-52, and Jon (who's a guy). 
> 
> I'm okay with them, but do we really have to go down yet another Bat/Cat like romance for the Batbooks?


Didn't you know? It's illegal for a male and a female character to be on the same page together and not have romantic feelings for each other, regardless of any incompatibilities the characters have.

----------


## adrikito

> The only ones that were not "Darker" types that have some chemistry with him were Supergirl (Kara) pre-52, and Jon (who's a guy).


..... It seems that tired of see Damian as COMIC RELIEF I left Supersons in the best possible moment in Damijon first days. Never liked the SuperKid. 

Is do not care about see 2 guys kissing but... Pixiv showed me the worst of that Damijon. *Pedophile porn images* making me dislike even their friendship. 
*Is more easy find a DamiRae normal fanart(under 18) than about these 2 for Damijon part.*  What have these Shippers in their Heads? Is like they see them as the ultimate gay couple WITHOUT REASON.


Anyway. I hope that now that Tim is BI LGTB calms a little I can enjoy Damian ship with Flatline... These Damijons even appeared *in GLEB tweet about Robin and Flatline* bothering saying that their ship is better or asking to make him BI. Poor Gleb.  :Mad: 


*Oliver sister is called EMIKO QUEEN.* Nothing happened because that GA volume ended. But he reached even the point to visit her in the hospital after she was hurt. 
That idiot of Glass said that he saw them more like a brother and sister.. Probably to lie us with one Damian ship in his comic that never wanted.  :Mad: 

*The other was called DJINN* but.. Glass was more interested in his characters(especially in Crush) and for this nothing happened between them.

----------


## Darkspellmaster

> ..... It seems that tired of see Damian as COMIC RELIEF I left Supersons in the best possible moment in Damijon first days. Never liked the SuperKid.


Never really saw Damian as comic relief in SuperSons. Always saw it the same way I saw Young Justice where all the characters had an equal chance of being goofy at some point. Jon is/was a good character and he and Damian fit the bill of the excitable and serious friends you'd see in most shonen manga or anime right now. 




> Is do not care about see 2 guys kissing but... Pixiv showed me the worst of that Damijon. *Pedophile porn images* making me dislike even their friendship. 
> *Is more easy find a DamiRae normal fanart(under 18) than about these 2.* Is like Damijon see them as the ultimate gay couple WITHOUT REASON.


There are normal fan art of Jon and damian. Honestly when Damian first came in there was a hell of a lot of shipping with him and Tim for a while on Tumblr as I recall, and sadly a lot of character's that are younger get this too depending on who they are, See Franklin Richards with some other characters in Marvel. It's mostly because you will never see Batman/Superman as a couple, which some want. Also if they had had Damian interact with Chris Kent you would have seen the same thing. I mean, yes there is issue with it, but no reason to hate the friendship of these two, and Damian needs friends that are good with him and Jon was that in a lot of ways and still is. 




> Anyway. I hope that now that Tim is BI LGTB calms a little I can enjoy Damian ship with Flatline... These Damijons even appeared *in GLEB tweet about Robin and Flatline* bothering saying that their ship is better or asking to make him BI. Poor Gleb.


I mean cool, ship who you want. I have a head cannon ship for him that will never happen because DC seems to want to avoid the whole Hal was dead and had a niece who had cool powers and we can't use her as a hero for some reason. But, in regard to Damian's sexuality, it would be way easier to do this with him over all, making him Bi, as he's not really had the same depth of relationships that Dick or Tim have had. Also it sucks that people are saying that, but right now there's limited Chemistry between the two. (And also anyone that goes ripping someone's heart out is a jerk in my book.) The thing is with the hero villain mash ups for romance is that they always crash in some way. Catwoman and Batman (outside of Earth 2), Roy x Cheshire, Spiderman x Black Cat, and any hero that hooks up with a villain typically has the villain turn good (see Mara Jade from Star Wars the EU) or they break up and it's a constant case of 'Come back to the good side' 'No I can't that's not me' situations. That's at least why to me Flatline is good fodder but I can't see it being in for the long haul. She's not going to suddenly go good and join up with Damian at least within the over all story. 





> *Oliver sister is called EMIKO QUEEN.* Nothing happened because that GA volume ended. But he reached even the point to visit her in the hospital after she was hurt. 
> That idiot of Glass said that he saw them more like a brother and sister.. Probably to lie us with one Damian ship in his comic that never wanted.


Thank you I couldn't remember her name. I keep thinking she's Sin from Pre-New 52 (who honestly would have made more sense with the ages), but I can see why Glass would not want that pairing going forward. As I recall she's a lot older than Damian who is what now 13 almost 14? And she was like 17, and I don't recall her showing interest in him. Again, Ship who you like. The fact that he was able to see her as a friend to see, that's a positive in a way as we do need more friendships between opposite sex characters. No harm in him being buddies with her, hell she could be a wing man to him when he gets older to a future partner. 




> *The other was called DJINN* but.. Glass was more interested in his characters(especially in Crush) and for this nothing happened between them.


And Djinn honestly never interested me. If I had to pick someone from right now, Iris West, MAPS or Riko Sheridan, that would be my options since they are all closer to his age and also characters that have had (in Iris's case) or have good chemistry with him. If I was allowed to go off on my own Personal choice, Helen Jordan from Specter who showed up as Hal's niece who can see things and she used to have reality warping powers. (Also would be interesting to see Bruce and Hal have to deal with each other given they don't always see eye to eye on things.)

----------


## adrikito

> Never really saw Damian as comic relief in SuperSons. Always saw it the same way I saw Young Justice where all the characters had an equal chance of being goofy at some point. Jon is/was a good character and he and Damian fit the bill of the excitable and serious friends you'd see in most shonen manga or anime right now.


You forgot when Damian was transformed in one Old man? That was really humilating and how they made it.




> There are normal fan art of Jon and damian. Honestly when Damian first came in there was a hell of a lot of shipping with him and Tim for a while on Tumblr as I recall, and sadly a lot of character's that are younger get this too depending on who they are, See Franklin Richards with some other characters in Marvel. It's mostly because you will never see Batman/Superman as a couple, which some want. Also if they had had Damian interact with Chris Kent you would have seen the same thing. I mean, yes there is issue with it, but no reason to hate the friendship of these two, and Damian needs friends that are good with him and Jon was that in a lot of ways and still is.


TIM and Damian?? REALLY? Sometimes I think that Tim fanbase HATES him.

Just saying that there are *A LOT OF THEM* and Now ​probably Damijon style will be "updated" with the S.kid with 17 and 14 years Damian... *Never thought that we would reach this point. When I joined he was really hated. I thought that he would be one ASEXUAL Robin without this Ships problem FOREVER*

The Flatline idea is hated for them. One friend told me that probably the first Damian +18 image with Flatline was made for a Damijon.. The Gay thing again. Sounds like a way to insult this ship for them.




> But, in regard to Damian's sexuality, it would be way easier to do this with him over all, making him Bi, as he's not really had the same depth of relationships that Dick or Tim have had. Also it sucks that people are saying that, but right now there's limited Chemistry between the two. (And also anyone that goes ripping someone's heart out is a jerk in my book.)


Call me CRAZY but... If the Ship was Damian and GRAYSON(Yes, Crazy age difference) I would accept it. For the dynamic between both characters. Maybe even Damian and Aqualad. I like their interactions in TT. It was one of the few things that I think that Glass did well. I dislike the Superkid a lot. 

Anyway. With Tim as Bi or Gay is a little late to him. The best that I can do is Ignore all these Shippers now that seems that they will continue asking to became one character* in what he is not* forever(like in bruce and clark cases).

AGAIN. It was easier when the people said me.. This Kid is ASEXUAL. You should not worry for Ships.




> Thank you I couldn't remember her name. I keep thinking she's Sin from Pre-New 52 (who honestly would have made more sense with the ages), but I can see why Glass would not want that pairing going forward. As I recall she's a lot older than Damian who is what now 13 almost 14? And she was like 17, and I don't recall her showing interest in him.


Only Damian showed interest if I am not wrong.. Glass said that their past were similar or something like this.




> And Djinn honestly never interested me. If I had to pick someone from right now, Iris West, MAPS or Riko Sheridan, that would be my options since they are all closer to his age and also characters that have had (in Iris's case) or have good chemistry with him. If I was allowed to go off on my own Personal choice, Helen Jordan from Specter who showed up as Hal's niece who can see things and she used to have reality warping powers. (Also would be interesting to see Bruce and Hal have to deal with each other given they don't always see eye to eye on things.)


MAPS. That girl was Great.. She was great until the end. How bad that this ship was not possible. Who is that Riko?? 

HAHAHAHAHA.. One Hal niece with Batman son.. That would be Funny.

----------


## dietrich

> Nope didn't catch that. Though given that he's going to be probably going back home, I'm guessing that it's a ploy by her. Though l have to point out that Flatline is a long line of darker/bad girls that writers seem to like to pair with him at times. Maya (who was more like a sister though people liked that), Ollie's younger sister, I can't think of her name at the moment but Crush's girlfriend. The only ones that were not "Darker" types that have some chemistry with him were Supergirl (Kara) pre-52, and Jon (who's a guy). 
> 
> I'm okay with them, but do we really have to go down yet another Bat/Cat like romance for the Batbooks?


Crush's Girl friend is blond and Damian has never met her.

Maya is an ally

Djinn was a love triangle with Djinn thirsty for Damian, Crush thirsty for Djinn and Damian thirsty for Justice

Maps is a school pal

Emiko was Wally's Girl

Raven is the only dark haired girl that writers have ever paired Damian with Romantically.

The rest have been blond [Cassie, Kara] or auburn [lexi]

How do you know this is a bat/cat relationship? Do you have access to the script? I don't mind getting spoiled or are you just assuming

----------


## CPSparkles

Dating catwoman is a comic trope so I don't mind them doing it with Damian especially since he IS the son of batman. He in particular is the one that they must do it for.

Comics are entertainment.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Didn't you know? It's illegal for a male and a female character to be on the same page together and not have romantic feelings for each other, regardless of any incompatibilities the characters have.


Not just male and females
Lesbians and bi-sexual women too since Djinn was apparently dating Crush :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## marhawkman

> As Robin battles for the secrets of eternal life against the deadliest killers on the planet, can he—will he—DARE HE—survive…a girlfriend?


hahahaa.... nope. He's doomed.  Doomed in a way that he'll never escape, even if he dies.  :Stick Out Tongue: 




> Dating catwoman is a comic trope so I don't mind them doing it with Damian especially since he IS the son of batman. He in particular is the one that they must do it for.
> 
> Comics are entertainment.


Depends on which Catwoman.  'cause there was one who's not Selina and actually a lot younger than Selina.

----------


## Eckri

> Dating catwoman is a comic trope so I don't mind them doing it with Damian especially since he IS the son of batman..


Would be hilarious if he pulled a Batman Adam West on her. Still remember this exchange from the show:

Batman: I'll do everything I can to rehabilitate you. 

Catwoman: Marry me

Batman: Everything except that. A wife no matter how beauteous is, or affectionate, will severely impair my crime fighting.

Swap the rehabilitate with something on the lines of help in her quest, the marry me with date, the wife with girlfriend, and add the snarkiness of Damian. 

Considering that Damian has some bad luck in romances in the main universe, I'm guessing this will be just a bait out. Yeah there might a kiss, doubt Damian will feel something. If anything, the tournament is more focused on Damian and Connor's friendship, that might in the end have Damian breaking Connor on whatever hold the League of Lazarus has on him.

----------


## Shen

> *Djinn was a love triangle with Djinn thirsty for Damian, Crush thirsty for Djinn and Damian thirsty for Justice*


Lol, this is the best description I've heard for that mess XD

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## adrikito

> Crush's Girl friend is blond and Damian has never met her.
> 
> Maya is an ally
> 
> Djinn was a love triangle with Djinn thirsty for Damian, Crush thirsty for Djinn and Damian thirsty for Justice
> 
> Maps is a school pal
> 
> Emiko was Wally's Girl
> ...


So many girls and no one of them Dami girlfriend.  :Frown: 

What? First DJINN and now Crush has another girlfriend?? DAMNIT... All Glass effort was to make his character continue in DC at cost to delay Damian having a girlfriend.




> hahahaa.... nope. He's doomed.  Doomed in a way that he'll never escape, even if he dies.


I hope that he avoids a 2nd death here.. I think that he died more than any Robin in this continuity..

Anyway to make him feel THE DANGER to only have 1 remaining life I don´t discard him dying again... Maybe against the Deathstroke copy.. Connor made enough defeating him to now even kill him too.

Flatline already killed him 1 time.. So I discard another one without matter if she ends betraying him.

----------


## dietrich

https://twitter.com/NikolaCizmesija

----------


## Restingvoice

"The Gang" - Gleb

----------


## dietrich

> "The Gang" - Gleb


This is so my vibe. As soon as I saw this I couldn't help smiling.

Plz let them form a strong dynamic

----------


## Eckri

This is one of the rare times Damian is hanging out with a group of friends. 
We saw the kid hanging out but usually in pairs, but it is nice seeing the kid hanging out in groups, even if it's on Death island

----------


## Eckri

> This is so my vibe. As soon as I saw this I couldn't help smiling.
> 
> Plz let them form a strong dynamic


Flatline's the relaxed one. 
Rose is the responsible one. 
Connor is the silent one. 
and finally
Damian is the snarky one.

----------


## dietrich

> This is one of the rare times Damian is hanging out with a group of friends. 
> We saw the kid hanging out but usually in pairs, but it is nice seeing the kid hanging out in groups, even if it's on Death island


Damian looks like a man here

----------


## Restingvoice

I was wondering who female Garth is but that's Tula right?

----------


## dietrich

> Flatline's the relaxed one. 
> Rose is the responsible one. 
> Connor is the silent one. 
> and finally
> Damian is the snarky one.


Yep! quite the Squad.

This makes me think this tournament isn't going to end or the squad might put an end to it because there's no way all 4 of them don't survive and the tournament is supposed to be to the death.

----------


## dietrich

> I was wondering who female Garth is but that's Tula right?


i believe so. it's been a while

----------


## adrikito

> "The Gang" - Gleb


WOW. Awesome.

But I think that we will have to wait A LOT for this.. Is like Mother Soul and Damian old master are allied and the gang discovered it here.


*Mother Soul:* Ra´s Al ghul never told you what happened with your Grandmother?

*Damian:* He told me enough. You killed her.

*Mother Soul:* NO. I am your grandmother

----------


## Rac7d*

> WOW. Awesome.
> 
> But I think that we will have to wait A LOT for this..
> 
> It makes me want a Teen Titans team again.


Screw the titans, they are the crew

----------


## Astralabius

> "The Gang" - Gleb


If they would get rid of Flatline I could actually get on board with this.

----------


## adrikito

> If they would get rid of Flatline I could actually get on board with this.


If you dislike her(like Damijon and LGTB) like that you will not enjoy the comic after Robins reunion.


I hope that LGTB focus in him less now if they really want Tim.. Ask the same for Damijon ones is impossible

----------


## Eckri

Old Robin Issue.jpg

Gosh, looking back on how Damian was drawn. 

It's either he's a 10 year old, a small kid, or a teenager just right now. 

Or he's drawn completely like an adult despite the fact he's supposed to be a kid. Robin Issue 168 ^

----------


## Rac7d*

> If they would get rid of Flatline I could actually get on board with this.


She not going anywhere sooooooooo

----------


## Light of Justice

> I mean cool, ship who you want. I have a head cannon ship for him that will never happen because DC seems to want to avoid the whole Hal was dead and had a niece who had cool powers and we can't use her as a hero for some reason. But, in regard to Damian's sexuality, it would be way easier to do this with him over all, making him Bi, as he's not really had the same depth of relationships that Dick or Tim have had. Also it sucks that people are saying that, but right now there's limited Chemistry between the two. (And also anyone that goes ripping someone's heart out is a jerk in my book.) The thing is with the hero villain mash ups for romance is that they always crash in some way. Catwoman and Batman (outside of Earth 2), Roy x Cheshire, Spiderman x Black Cat, and any hero that hooks up with a villain typically has the villain turn good (see Mara Jade from Star Wars the EU) or they break up and it's a constant case of 'Come back to the good side' 'No I can't that's not me' situations. That's at least why to me Flatline is good fodder but I can't see it being in for the long haul. She's not going to suddenly go good and join up with Damian at least within the over all story.


New character's survival partly depends on how powerful their creator is, and Williamson is a quite big name, so I can see Flatline on long run. Also Robin current arc is deathmatch between killers, it's not fair to judge Flatline because of her act as per the rule of the tournament. I don't quite understand why some fans instantly hate Flatline since she only appeared in 3 issues so far and she didn't do anything wrong except ripping Damian's heart out which is again, deathmatch rule

----------


## Light of Justice

> If you dislike her(like Damijon and LGTB) like that you will not enjoy the comic after Robins reunion.
> 
> 
> I hope that LGTB focus in him less now if they really want Tim.. Ask the same for Damijon ones is impossible


Tim reveals as bi doesn't mean Damian will not get written as LGBT in the future you know... It all depends on the writer. I don't care for romance in my comic but personally I think it's interesting to see Damian as Gay or Asexual. Like he's an heir of 2 big legacies but his orientation prevents him to have kids (at least the normal way. We know there are some crazy baby making things in DC world, like tubes and clone etc). I don't see Batman or even Talia care about it, but Damian himself probably will have some conflict regarding that.

That reminds me, is Damian ever called someone beautiful etc? Strangely I don't remember any of that, except Injustice Damian in flirts mode toward Kara

----------


## Shen

> That reminds me, is Damian ever called someone beautiful etc? Strangely I don't remember any of that, except Injustice Damian in flirts mode toward Kara


Mostly in Elseworlds stories. 

There was the thing with Cassie and him in DCeased. Also there were signs of attraction with Chris Kent, and Damian and Alexis teased and flirted with each other a lot. That would honestly be my OTP if she existed in main continuity - can you imagine that power couple?

----------


## Light of Justice

> Mostly in Elseworlds stories. 
> 
> There was the thing with Cassie and him in DCeased. Also there were signs of attraction with Chris Kent, and Damian and Alexis teased and flirted with each other a lot. That would honestly be my OTP if she existed in main continuity - can you imagine that power couple?


Don't read DCeased and probably will never will. 

OMG I completely forget about Multiverse The Just, the power of boring trenchcoat XD Actually that comic gave me a threesome/poly relationship, so Chris/Damian/Alexis, super power couples. Their Christmas gathering will be interesting

----------


## dietrich

> Tim reveals as bi doesn't mean Damian will not get written as LGBT in the future you know... It all depends on the writer. I don't care for romance in my comic but personally I think it's interesting to see Damian as Gay or Asexual. Like he's an heir of 2 big legacies but his orientation prevents him to have kids (at least the normal way. We know there are some crazy baby making things in DC world, like tubes and clone etc). I don't see Batman or even Talia care about it, but Damian himself probably will have some conflict regarding that.
> 
> That reminds me, is Damian ever called someone beautiful etc? Strangely I don't remember any of that, except Injustice Damian in flirts mode toward Kara


I can't recall Damian ever calling anyone beautiful. The most he's done is call Katana badass in lil'Gotham.

----------


## dietrich

> Mostly in Elseworlds stories. 
> 
> There was the thing with Cassie and him in DCeased. Also there were signs of attraction with Chris Kent, and Damian and Alexis teased and flirted with each other a lot. That would honestly be my OTP if she existed in main continuity - can you imagine that power couple?





> Don't read DCeased and probably will never will. 
> 
> OMG I completely forget about Multiverse The Just, the power of boring trenchcoat XD Actually that comic gave me a threesome/poly relationship, so Chris/Damian/Alexis, super power couples. Their Christmas gathering will be interesting


Add me to that list of those who liked Chris/Damian/Lexi dynamic

----------


## adrikito

> Tim reveals as bi doesn't mean Damian will not get written as LGBT in the future you know... It all depends on the writer. I don't care for romance in my comic but personally I think it's interesting to see Damian as Gay or Asexual.


As long as the Damijon is avoided I do not care If Damian turns in BI. Never liked Superkid and these shippers are everywhere. I saw accidentaly enough to desire that these shippers never obtain what they want.

Anyway.. I think that I saw these last years people complaining that TIM and DAMIAN were similar(before BI Tim thing) because* they are 2 ROBINS*(Tim is not called Drake or R.Robin) at the same time.. Why want to make them similar again making Damian Bi too?  :Confused: 

I desire the best to STEPH.. Now that she lost him.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

> Add me to that list of those who liked Chris/Damian/Lexi dynamic


I never thought them as a poly relationship, but I loved it hahaha. 




> As long as the Damijon is avoided I do not care If Damian turns in BI. Never liked Superkid and these shippers are everywhere. I saw accidentaly enough to desire that these shippers never obtain what they want.
> 
> Anyway.. I think that I saw these last years people complaining that TIM and DAMIAN were similar(before BI Tim thing) because* they are 2 ROBINS*(Tim is not called Drake or R.Robin) at the same time.. Why want to make them similar again making Damian Bi too? 
> 
> I desire the best to STEPH.. Now that she lost him.


lmao Tim and Damian are completely different and making both of them bi wouldn't change anything. People who say they are similar probably are the ones who don't follow them properly.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I never thought them as a poly relationship, but I loved it hahaha. 
> 
> 
> 
> lmao Tim and Damian are completely different and making both of them bi wouldn't change anything. People who say they are similar probably are the ones who don't follow them properly.


Damian has more in common with Jason, if any comparison is to be made between the bird boys. Dying, coming back. Being "darker Robins", think that some people do deserve to die, complicated relationships with the rest of the Bats (including one another), deep ties to assassin organizations (2 for Jason), etc.

----------


## adrikito

> lmao Tim and Damian are completely different and making both of them bi wouldn't change anything. People who say they are similar probably are the ones who don't follow them properly.



I never said that.. Never had interest in Tim. I prefer the other Robin(Steph included) 

I only remember listen others saying that that if Tim would had continued with Steph and Damian now with Flatline maybe would say that they are even more similar with that.


YEAH.. Damian is more similar to Jason.

----------


## Astralabius

> She not going anywhere sooooooooo


And that's one of the reasons I dropped the book. The whole tournament arc is dumb and these new characzers don't appeal to me at all.

----------


## Astralabius

> New character's survival partly depends on how powerful their creator is, and Williamson is a quite big name, so I can see Flatline on long run. Also Robin current arc is deathmatch between killers, it's not fair to judge Flatline because of her act as per the rule of the tournament. I don't quite understand why some fans instantly hate Flatline since she only appeared in 3 issues so far and she didn't do anything wrong except ripping Damian's heart out which is again, deathmatch rule


I think we can all decide for ourselfs what justifies not liking a character. And it's not just her ripping out his heart, which is probably the worst start of a romance I have ever seen, I read the second issue too and found her quite boring and slightly annoying.
I also don't think that Damian needs someone like her in his life right now. The only reason I see these two getting together is because the writer wants to, not because it makes any sense for two characters like that to enter a romantic relationship.

----------


## Rac7d*

> And that's one of the reasons I dropped the book. The whole tournament arc is dumb and these new characzers don't appeal to me at all.


I’m sorry I guess ? But sh e was made to be reoccurring so hopefully down the line you give her another chance

----------


## Light of Justice

> I think we can all decide for ourselfs what justifies not liking a character. And it's not just her ripping out his heart, which is probably the worst start of a romance I have ever seen, I read the second issue too and found her quite boring and slightly annoying.
> I also don't think that Damian needs someone like her in his life right now. The only reason I see these two getting together is because the writer wants to, not because it makes any sense for two characters like that to enter a romantic relationship.


There's a difference between "I don't like this character" and "she's a jerk for me". Jerk is real critic of character's personality, which is too sudden to be thrown around when we barely know anything about Flatline.

----------


## Light of Justice

> And that's one of the reasons I dropped the book. The whole tournament arc is dumb and these new characzers don't appeal to me at all.


I understand, I also dislike DCeased when most Damian fans I know worship the book.

----------


## adrikito

> And that's one of the reasons I dropped the book. The whole tournament arc is dumb and these new characzers don't appeal to me at all.


You did well. Is what I made with Supersons. Comic that I only started because Damian was here.. When I saw that is not what I wanted I left and never saw it again.. 
Good choice. Reading it maybe I would find reasons for that Damijon existence.  :Frown: 


The best that one fan can make is avoid see his/her character used in a way that you don´t want.. Like sadly Steph in Detective Comics. I made a mistake watching that Tynion run until the end.

----------


## marhawkman

> I think we can all decide for ourselfs what justifies not liking a character. And it's not just her ripping out his heart, which is probably the worst start of a romance I have ever seen, I read the second issue too and found her quite boring and slightly annoying.
> I also don't think that Damian needs someone like her in his life right now. The only reason I see these two getting together is because the writer wants to, not because it makes any sense for two characters like that to enter a romantic relationship.


Hmmm... What kind of person would you consider "right" though?

----------


## adrikito

One friend showed me this.. In case it was not posted here:

DC Connect Robin Damian Flatline.jpg

If you want to see it bigger:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen....apps.docs.jpg

I like Damian expression here.. Ra´s look like a Cool Grandfather here.

Toxic PARENTS?? Rose has a bad mother too??

----------


## Morgoth

It seems like they're really pushing this romance between them. I hope it works out. 
ROBIN 2021 ANNUAL #1
WRITTEN BY JOSHUA WILLIAMSON
ART BY ROGER CRUZ AND VICTOR OLAZABA
COVER BY JORGE CORONA
$5.99 US | 48 PAGES
VARIANT BY CRYSTAL KUNG
$6.99 US (CARD STOCK)
ON SALE 11/30/21

TALE OF THE TAPE! The League of Lazarus has introduced Robin to a wide range of some of the youngest, deadliest fighters on the planetfrom XXL and his hype squad to Respawn and his Deathstroke fandomand these killers mean business. But no fighter has made an impact on Damian Wayne like Flatline, the former sidekick of Lord Death Man and one of the most elite combatants in the tournament. But who is Flatline? Uncover the secret origin of all the breakout fighter stars of Robin in this oversize special that puts the K.O. in comic book! Plus: Atlantean fighters join the tournament? C'mon, Mother Soul, never order the fishalways order the steak!

ROBIN #8
Written by JOSHUA WILLIAMSON
Art by GLEB MELNIKOV
Cover by SIMONE DI MEO
Variant cover by FRANCIS MANAPUL
$3.99 US | 32 PGS | $4.99 US Variant (Card stock)
ON SALE 11/23/21

It's time for a rematch! Robin and Connor Hawke face off for round two in their winner-take-all battle for League of Lazarus supremacy, but with the tournament nearing its end, what surprises does Mother Soul have up her sleeve? I hope it doesn't involve that massive, hellish pit and the immortal monster lying within itaw beans, it's about that, isn't it?!

----------


## adrikito

Thanks morgoth

Yeah they are pushing it.. Good for him. It was REALLY DISAPPOINTING when his previous ship attempts(Emiko and Djinn) failed.




> —from XXL and his hype squad to Respawn and his Deathstroke fandom


What?? Damian will fight against one Slade group of Fans?




> no fighter has made an impact on Damian Wayne like Flatline, the former sidekick of Lord Death Man and one of the most elite combatants in the tournament. But who is Flatline? Uncover the secret origin of all the breakout fighter stars of Robin in this oversize special


Is saying that we will ONLY Discover Flatline origin or.. That we will discover another characters origins too?  :Confused: 




> Atlantean fighters join the tournament? C'mon, Mother Soul, never order the fish—always order the steak!


WOW.. 




> Robin and Connor Hawke face off for round two in their winner-take-all battle for League of Lazarus supremacy


Good luck Damian.. Or I hope that is a tie for what comes next..




> I hope it doesn't involve that massive, hellish pit and the immortal monster lying within it


As admiral ackbar said: *IS A TRAP*  :Wink:

----------


## Morgoth

Judging by cover, they will take Flatline hostage, or something like that. 



> Flatline, *the former* sidekick of Lord Death Man


Wait, the former? Was it stated in series, she's not working for him anymore?

----------


## adrikito

Rose said that FT was Lord Death *NEW SIDEKICK*. While the FT said that he allowed her to go alone on her own for first time. She is here but is still working for him..


As simple as that she left her Boss to make the Ship possible(for now). Damian is not a villain.

----------


## Morgoth

Oh, so I guess I know how Flatline will stick around with Damian. She will fail Lord Death Man in tournament, he will try to hunt her down for that, so Damian will bring her to Gotham with him. But Bruce won't be there for a while, so they eventually will be screwed, lol.
Melnikov has already posted their picture in the city, so I'm sure there will be something like that.
i'm curious, if Damian will be able to meet Bruce before he leaves Gotham? I remember Williamson mentioned, that next arc is centered around their relationship, I wonder how it's going to work out.

----------


## Drako

> One friend showed me this.. In case it was not posted here:
> 
> DC Connect Robin Damian Flatline.jpg
> 
> If you want to see it bigger:
> 
> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen....apps.docs.jpg
> 
> I like Damian expression here.. Ra´s look like a Cool Grandfather here.
> ...


Flatline reading a Nightwing Book?
and the dude that drew Nightwing like Chandler Bing in the previous issue is back for the Annual. Urg.

----------


## Light of Justice

Wait, the tournament already ends on chapter 8? I thought it will be longer




> One friend showed me this.. In case it was not posted here:
> 
> DC Connect Robin Damian Flatline.jpg
> 
> If you want to see it bigger:
> 
> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen....apps.docs.jpg
> 
> I like Damian expression here.. Ra´s look like a Cool Grandfather here.
> ...


Immortal ABS I'm- XD XD XD  :Big Grin: 




> Judging by cover, they will take Flatline hostage, or something like that. 
> 
> Wait, the former? Was it stated in series, she's not working for him anymore?


In Robin 2 Flatline said that she went to the tournament with Lord Death Man permission, so she should be still under him

----------


## garazza

I literally have no interest in the potential love life of a 14 year old child. I'd love for Flatline to stick around. She's really grown on me...as her own character and not some love interest that gets shunted onto Damian simply because that's a "percieved" missing part of his character when that is in fact by design, because he is a child.

Ignorance is bliss, so I'll continue to believe this is just the marketing leaning into romance tropes when there is the barest semblance of romantic feelings (like a kiss on the cheek that surprises Damian and throws him off his game in the tournament) in the text of the book and everything else has only been indicative of the beginning of a friendly rivalry.

----------


## Light of Justice

I like this cover... And curious about the new Atlantean, how old is Mera in canon?

----------


## Light of Justice

> I literally have no interest in the potential love life of a 14 year old child. I'd love for Flatline to stick around. She's really grown on me...as her own character and not some love interest that gets shunted onto Damian simply because that's a "percieved" missing part of his character when that is in fact by design, because he is a child.
> 
> Ignorance is bliss, so I'll continue to believe this is just the marketing leaning into romance tropes when there is the barest semblance of romantic feelings (like a kiss on the cheek that surprises Damian and throws him off his game in the tournament) in the text of the book and everything else has only been indicative of the beginning of a friendly rivalry.


You and me both. Romantic relationship in comic is almost never permanent so it's useless to ponder too serious about it. Not even characters that were specifically designed to be other character's love interest were safe from writer's mood swing (case in point, Kory and Steph)

----------


## adrikito

> Melnikov has already posted their picture in the city, so I'm sure there will be something like that.
> i'm curious, if Damian will be able to meet Bruce before he leaves Gotham? I remember Williamson mentioned, that next arc is centered around their relationship, I wonder how it's going to work out.


Really?? he posted it? It seems that I missed it.




> I like this cover... And curious about the new Atlantean, how old is Mera in canon?


WOW.. Awesome..

MERA?? 

Or Mera daughter(andy)?? I remember her in Aquaman as Baby and in that *Future Justice league* as a teen.. a Mera Jr. who was trained for one Older Aqualad as little girl before.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Really?? he posted it? It seems that I missed it.
> 
> 
> 
> WOW.. Awesome..
> 
> MERA?? 
> 
> Or Mera daughter(andy)?? I remember her in Aquaman as Baby and in that *Future Justice league* as a teen.. a Mera Jr. who was trained for one Older Aqualad as little girl before.


yeah I mean Andy.. sorry it's midnight in my place  :Big Grin:  So she's a baby in current canon, right?

----------


## garazza

> yeah I mean Andy.. sorry it's midnight in my place  So she's a baby in current canon, right?


Like Jon Kent, she'll be aged up in no time, I guarantee it.

----------


## Darkspellmaster

> Hmmm... What kind of person would you consider "right" though?


For me honestly it would have to be a person that was a lot like these two girls: 

Option 1 would be Irey West, Wally's daughter who just recently came back. She has speedforce powers like her father, took the name Impulse, (now there are two) and she and her brother survived living on their own for a long while in I guess a limbo place. Her twin Jai I think still has the power to use the speedforce to make him strong over fast (he's called the Turtle in the future). Anyway personality wise, she'd work well with Damian as she is very much the opposite of him in ways and the same in others. She's confident in herself and extroverted. Both survived dealing with some dark stuff (Her and her brother in the multiverse and the whole Death metal thing). Previously she was going to be in a new YJ with Damian, Static, Supergirl, Batgirl(Steph), Ms. Martian and Blue Beetle and it was clear that she was going to be there to help Steph in pulling Damian out of his shell and becoming a friend of his, at the end of the first major issue there's a mini party and she pulls Damian onto the dance floor. She's a bit sarcastic and very much like her cousin Bart in that she's an over all happy person but she's also empathetic to others. 

Apparently She has her father's powers plus it's stronger with her than her dad and cousin. 

Attachment 112540

Option 2 is Helen Jordan, Jason Jordan's twin sister niece to Hal and cousin to Hal Jr. (Airwave) and was recently brought back recalling her time with her uncle Hal as a near death experience. Though it's hinted at that she still seems to retain some of her powers as the alien creature in the annual was attracted to her for some unknown reason. Helen's personality mostly is shown in Specter and she's a kind girl with a strong sense of humor and a willingness to learn. She likes fantasy (as shown with her liking Wizard of Oz) and she also has a strong connection to those in magical/cosmic/Spectral area of the DC universe. Her newer, older, self is also very cool in that she's understanding of various alien languages (guessing she might have her powers from the past but it's buried for now) and seems to be very much like her younger self in wanting to help others and apparently willing to (even when she's kind of dead) help save her uncle by waking him the hell up in ghost form. Helen has a wicked sense of humor and I think she could be someone who can empathize with Damian and his issues with his father and mother as her family is dysfunctional as all get out. 

Her powers right now seem to be ghost ablities, talking to aliens, and possibly her realty warping powers as shown in the past.

spect2407b.jpgRCO009_1564575877.jpg

As for Flatline, my issue with her is that she reminds me way way way too much of the character Himiko Toga from My Hero Academia, where in she's all I have a crush on you hero even though I'm probably going to try to kill you later. Her personality to me feels very much like "Let's make a manga edgelord like baddie but also make her cool" to fill in the Harley role. That's very much what she feels like. And it grates on me as it's like a version of Live Wire in a way. Trying to be all Look how cool I am, in how she acts and what she does. Even her profile screams it down to the hobby area and the fact that she's a great martial artist, etc. Rose I can buy because of who her father is, Cassandra was trained to kill, but this girl? Just seems really random and again way to much like They are trying to pair him with a dark type when you really want someone the opposite of that for Damian as it would allow someone to bring out the better side of him at times since writers like to screw with him emotionally. He needs someone who is not going to yank his heart out to be there for him. That's why my nomination is those two as it would lead to some interesting developments with not only him and the girls (or if they wanted to they could go with Jason Jordan or Jai West if they want to make it a guy) but also for either the Bat or Flash families. 

I mean Bruce having to either deal with Hal or Wally would be amusing given their interactions in the past, and the whole JL thing going on.

----------


## adrikito

ROBIN 8 COVER

I am in part a little confused.. The only that I understood is that we see Damian fighting against Connor and that she is here.

ROBIN 8 flatline damian.jpg

----------


## Morgoth

No, it seems like she tries to make her way to the ring while Connor beats Damian there, something like that.

----------


## adrikito

> No, it seems like she tries to make her way to the ring while Connor beats Damian there, something like that.


I see... Maybe.

There is a secondary one with Mother Soul(in lazarus pits). OF COURSE. She wanted this for herself
Screen Shot 4891.jpg

----------


## Light of Justice

> No, it seems like she tries to make her way to the ring while Connor beats Damian there, something like that.


Or she was taken while Damian was too busy fighting Connor

----------


## adrikito

> Or she was taken while Damian was too busy fighting Connor


Maybe... It like 2 persons arms are closely to her trying to kidnapp her.


lol.. The MOST HATED ROBIN long time ago would be one of the Best options to be introduced in DCAU scenario. The 2nd option surprised me.. I was not expecting see her here.

https://www.cbr.com/dcau-missing-comic-characters/

----------


## garazza

It's two League of Lazarus guards holding her back. I'm guessing she's shouting for Damian and Connor's match to end because it's getting too brutal, or something like that, nothing to get confused or caught up about.

----------


## adrikito

> It's two League of Lazarus guards holding her back. I'm guessing she's shouting for Damian and Connor's match to end because it's getting too brutal, or something like that, nothing to get confused or caught up about.


Interesting. Thanks for the Information.

----------


## Morgoth

Considering that tournament arc is ending, I hope there's no chance December issue will be last. Yeah, it's unlikely, but at the end of the year it's always scary for titles.

----------


## adrikito

> Considering that tournament arc is ending, I hope there's no chance December issue will be last. Yeah, it's unlikely, but at the end of the year it's always scary for titles.


Please.. Don´t say that.

I heard that Damian will return to Gotham after this tournament and... His ship already started.

This comic needs at least 20 issues to make something with sense with the ship.

----------


## garazza

The same day that the first issue Superman: Son of Kal-El was released and was number three on Comixology's top ten best sellers, Robin #4 was number eight. Physically, SSoK sold around 54k and I don't know the numbers for Robin's print run, but I'd reckon they're strong for a book that's divorced from the main goings-on of the DCU. Plus, Robin is Williamson's baby. In case you missed it, Williamson is DC's main architect and is the one pushing the universe forward. He's not going to let the book die after one arc. The only reason Robin: Son of Batman ended the way it did was because Gleason got Superman.

----------


## Morgoth

It sells pretty good, as far as I heard, Robin pretty easy outsold Clark, Wally and Diana titles, lol.
I just don't trust DC, to be honest.  :Big Grin:  You can call it paranoia.

----------


## garazza

> It sells pretty good, as far as I heard, Robin pretty easy outsold Clark, Wally and Diana titles, lol.
> I just don't trust DC, to be honest.  You can call it paranoia.


Your paranoia is very justified. I've been very distrustful of DC since the end of Rebirth. Very few things, if any, DC has recently done have engendered themselves to me. Robin, for all my love of it and trust in Williamson, is on very thin ice for how tangentially close it is to the age up of Jon Kent, the one thing that very nearly got me to stop reading DC altogether.

----------


## adrikito

> Plus, Robin is Williamson's baby. In case you missed it, Williamson is DC's main architect and is the one pushing the universe forward. He's not going to let the book die after one arc. The only reason Robin: Son of Batman ended the way it did was because Gleason got Superman.


It was really sad... I wanted to learn more about MAYA. 

I would had liked DC delaying Rebirth era 1 year more.  :Mad:  Now we lost GLEASON and MAYA.




> Robin, for all my love of it and trust in Williamson, is on very thin ice for how tangentially close it is to the age up of Jon Kent.


I think that I heard that is 3 years of difference again like in the past. Where is the problem?

----------


## CPSparkles

> For me honestly it would have to be a person that was a lot like these two girls: 
> 
> Option 1 would be Irey West, Wally's daughter who just recently came back. She has speedforce powers like her father, took the name Impulse, (now there are two) and she and her brother survived living on their own for a long while in I guess a limbo place. Her twin Jai I think still has the power to use the speedforce to make him strong over fast (he's called the Turtle in the future). Anyway personality wise, she'd work well with Damian as she is very much the opposite of him in ways and the same in others. She's confident in herself and extroverted. Both survived dealing with some dark stuff (Her and her brother in the multiverse and the whole Death metal thing). Previously she was going to be in a new YJ with Damian, Static, Supergirl, Batgirl(Steph), Ms. Martian and Blue Beetle and it was clear that she was going to be there to help Steph in pulling Damian out of his shell and becoming a friend of his, at the end of the first major issue there's a mini party and she pulls Damian onto the dance floor. She's a bit sarcastic and very much like her cousin Bart in that she's an over all happy person but she's also empathetic to others. 
> 
> Apparently She has her father's powers plus it's stronger with her than her dad and cousin. 
> 
> Attachment 112540
> 
> Option 2 is Helen Jordan, Jason Jordan's twin sister niece to Hal and cousin to Hal Jr. (Airwave) and was recently brought back recalling her time with her uncle Hal as a near death experience. Though it's hinted at that she still seems to retain some of her powers as the alien creature in the annual was attracted to her for some unknown reason. Helen's personality mostly is shown in Specter and she's a kind girl with a strong sense of humor and a willingness to learn. She likes fantasy (as shown with her liking Wizard of Oz) and she also has a strong connection to those in magical/cosmic/Spectral area of the DC universe. Her newer, older, self is also very cool in that she's understanding of various alien languages (guessing she might have her powers from the past but it's buried for now) and seems to be very much like her younger self in wanting to help others and apparently willing to (even when she's kind of dead) help save her uncle by waking him the hell up in ghost form. Helen has a wicked sense of humor and I think she could be someone who can empathize with Damian and his issues with his father and mother as her family is dysfunctional as all get out. 
> ...


1,Flatline is nothing like Toga. Can I ask are you even reading the Robin solo because the way you describe Flatline tells me that you are not.

There's nothing i dislike more than when fans make up their mind based on aesthetics without reading the book. That is very insulting to Williamson the writer.

2,Damian doesn't need anyone to bring out his better side. He can do that himself and has always done.

Damian decided to become a hero
he decided to redeem himself to insinuate that he needs a 3rd party to bring out the good in him is not only insulting but highlights how little you know the character.

3, Writers don't screw with Damian any more than they screw with the rest of the bats so let that conspiracy Theory burn.

----------


## CPSparkles

> The same day that the first issue Superman: Son of Kal-El was released and was number three on Comixology's top ten best sellers, Robin #4 was number eight. Physically, SSoK sold around 54k and I don't know the numbers for Robin's print run, but I'd reckon they're strong for a book that's divorced from the main goings-on of the DCU. Plus, Robin is Williamson's baby. In case you missed it, Williamson is DC's main architect and is the one pushing the universe forward. He's not going to let the book die after one arc. The only reason Robin: Son of Batman ended the way it did was because Gleason got Superman.


It had a much stronger debut than SSoK In June it sold 49k for comparism Nightwing sold 54k in that month

https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...1/2021-06.html

----------


## Eckri

> Option 1 would be Irey West, Wally's daughter who just recently came back. She has speedforce powers like her father, took the name Impulse, (now there are two) and she and her brother survived living on their own for a long while in I guess a limbo place. Her twin Jai I think still has the power to use the speedforce to make him strong over fast (he's called the Turtle in the future). Anyway personality wise, she'd work well with Damian as she is very much the opposite of him in ways and the same in others. She's confident in herself and extroverted. Both survived dealing with some dark stuff (Her and her brother in the multiverse and the whole Death metal thing). Previously she was going to be in a new YJ with Damian, Static, Supergirl, Batgirl(Steph), Ms. Martian and Blue Beetle and it was clear that she was going to be there to help Steph in pulling Damian out of his shell and becoming a friend of his, at the end of the first major issue there's a mini party and she pulls Damian onto the dance floor. She's a bit sarcastic and very much like her cousin Bart in that she's an over all happy person but she's also empathetic to others. 
> 
> Apparently She has her father's powers plus it's stronger with her than her dad and cousin. 
> 
> 
> I mean Bruce having to either deal with Hal or Wally would be amusing given their interactions in the past, and the whole JL thing going on.



Still feel robbed that Young Justice teamed didn't make it. 
Honestly it'll feel like Steph baby sitting Damian 24/7, along with Supergirl telling Damian to not be a jerk. Then him replying in a snarky way. 

Honestly, with how Damian is. He's not the introverted (Still is but not to an extent) and social awkward (Still is but you get the jest) as he was in the Pre-New 52. Steph and Dick did wonders for him. Not to mention the wholesome moments in New 52 before Rebirth between him and Bruce. Gosh, the aftermath of Damian's death and Bruce's reaction was such a neat read. 

They're no longer the opposites, at least to some extent. That ain't going to work, would have in the Pre-New 52 or earlier. The extrovert getting the introvert to socialize dynamic. 
Now? He can socialize, least better than he did Pre-New 52 and his early days. Plus Jon and Damian did some fill that role in Supersons.

It ain't work in the present, maybe in his early days.

----------


## Eckri

> ROBIN #8
> Written by JOSHUA WILLIAMSON
> Art by GLEB MELNIKOV
> Cover by SIMONE DI MEO
> Variant cover by FRANCIS MANAPUL
> $3.99 US | 32 PGS | $4.99 US Variant (Card stock)
> ON SALE 11/23/21
> 
> It's time for a rematch! Robin and Connor Hawke face off for round two in their winner-take-all battle for League of Lazarus supremacy, but with the tournament nearing its end, what surprises does Mother Soul have up her sleeve? I hope it doesn't involve that massive, hellish pit and the immortal monster lying within itaw beans, it's about that, isn't it?!


This is honestly really starting to really feel like Mortal Kombat. 

Shang Tsung is Mother Soul. 

The immortal monster is a Goro type.

Maybe it ends with Damian, Connor, Rose, and Flatline v. the monster and Mother Soul. 
After the tournament arc is, if I recall right, he's making an appearance in Fear State right?

----------


## Rac7d*

> This is honestly really starting to really feel like Mortal Kombat. 
> 
> Shang Tsung is Mother Soul. 
> 
> The immortal monster is a Goro type.
> 
> Maybe it ends with Damian, Connor, Rose, and Flatline v. the monster and Mother Soul. 
> After the tournament arc is, if I recall right, he's making an appearance in Fear State right?


Starting …. Lol it’s been for a while.

----------


## Jackalope89

> *This is honestly really starting to really feel like Mortal Kombat.* 
> 
> Shang Tsung is Mother Soul. 
> 
> The immortal monster is a Goro type.
> 
> Maybe it ends with Damian, Connor, Rose, and Flatline v. the monster and Mother Soul. 
> After the tournament arc is, if I recall right, he's making an appearance in Fear State right?


Did you miss the last few years of Red Hood? Jason literally looked like a red version of Scorpion or Sub-Zero.

----------


## Darkspellmaster

> 1,Flatline is nothing like Toga. Can I ask are you even reading the Robin solo because the way you describe Flatline tells me that you are not.
> 
> There's nothing i dislike more than when fans make up their mind based on aesthetics without reading the book. That is very insulting to Williamson the writer.
> 
> 2,Damian doesn't need anyone to bring out his better side. He can do that himself and has always done.
> 
> Damian decided to become a hero
> he decided to redeem himself to insinuate that he needs a 3rd party to bring out the good in him is not only insulting but highlights how little you know the character.
> 
> 3, Writers don't screw with Damian any more than they screw with the rest of the bats so let that conspiracy Theory burn.


1. I am reading it, I'm not absorbing it as much as I used to due to the fact that I'm busy with other things. I'll try to re read it, but everything I've seen so far of her gives me Toga vibes, not exact no, but reminds me of her in a way. Now we still have time for me to learn to enjoy her, but I'm not sure if she's going to be a stick around character. I write myself, so yeah I get it, but as a writer too, I personally get annoyed at times when a character on another series gets popular and then everyone wants to do That character, or THAT story. (Example Dennis Hopeless with the whole Marvel Hunger Games story) 

2. I know that, but a lot of the time writers go from awesome grown Damian to Let's create a secrete prison Damian. Same can be said of other characters too, but with him it tends to feel like it's a constant thing because at times, as with his father, some want him to be darker others lighter. I'm not saying he needs a third party, I just think that the two character could be interesting counterpoints to him and draw out other sides to his character. Like, okay look at Jon and getting him into Manga, would he have ever considered reading that a few years ago, probably not. And for the record I've been reading him since his first showing up as Damien when he kicked the hell out of Tim and nearly killed him. So Yes I've seen him grow and change. I just think at times he needs more characters around him that are not, you know, former assassins and the like. 

3. They screw with him on the same level, true, but it also leads to mood whiplash. Go from superSon's to TT and there's a drastic change in how he's presented at times, same can be said for his outside appearances.

----------


## Darkspellmaster

> Still feel robbed that Young Justice teamed didn't make it. 
> Honestly it'll feel like Steph baby sitting Damian 24/7, along with Supergirl telling Damian to not be a jerk. Then him replying in a snarky way. 
> 
> Honestly, with how Damian is. He's not the introverted (Still is but not to an extent) and social awkward (Still is but you get the jest) as he was in the Pre-New 52. Steph and Dick did wonders for him. Not to mention the wholesome moments in New 52 before Rebirth between him and Bruce. Gosh, the aftermath of Damian's death and Bruce's reaction was such a neat read. 
> 
> They're no longer the opposites, at least to some extent. That ain't going to work, would have in the Pre-New 52 or earlier. The extrovert getting the introvert to socialize dynamic. 
> Now? He can socialize, least better than he did Pre-New 52 and his early days. Plus Jon and Damian did some fill that role in Supersons.
> 
> It ain't work in the present, maybe in his early days.


I agree on that one, it would have been fun to see how they worked together. 


I agree with that he's drastically changed since his first showing and his death did a number on him, with the whole thing with Dick and Steph,and I think Tomasi did do a lot of heavy lifting from where he was in the past with his work on the Batbooks. Then maybe would be fun to see the two compete with each other and dig into the role of legacy at least with Irey given you have the long line of the Flash family, and the many Bat Family members. 

I'm just thinking about how the characters could work because you do have younger people to interact with him but so far he's been limited to the Titans group, which he screwed up with, Jon, who's now an older teen (and there's a lot to say about that), and now this Tournament. It would be nice to have him try for a YJ like group like the one that didn't get a chance. 

I mean if Flatline is here to stay, cool, but I'm not digging her so far. Maybe she's just rubbing me the wrong way as a character. I don't know. First impressions and all that with characters. I personally just do not want a situation like in the Star Wars EU where Luke's son Ben kept trying to fix a Sith girl and writers turned them both into unlikable people by the end of the series. I really don't want that for Damian.

----------


## Darkspellmaster

> Did you miss the last few years of Red Hood? Jason literally looked like a red version of Scorpion or Sub-Zero.


And we already had a Fatality.

Also was thinking, has Damien and Bruce shared their love of anime yet? I mean, Bruce knew that Martian Manhunter used the name Rei Hino from Sailor Moon back in the day, so I wonder if the two could bond over that?

----------


## adrikito

> I mean if Flatline is here to stay, cool, but I'm not digging her so far. Maybe she's just rubbing me the wrong way as a character. I don't know. First impressions and all that with characters. I personally just do not want a situation like in the Star Wars EU where Luke's son Ben kept trying to fix a Sith girl and writers turned them both into unlikable people by the end of the series. I really don't want that for Damian.


Damian was controversial in his first days too... 

Even now(like 15 years later to his introduction) I see Stupid youtubers saying. *WHY I HATE DAMIAN/Why He is GARBAGE* . 
*I saw both NOW in the last weeks*(1 posted it few days ago). But only because I put Damian name in internet. Did not saw the videos because I am not interested in see their stupid reasons.

WAIT A SECOND... Luke son?? I thought that only his sister had a son. That Ben Solo who was corrupted for Palpatine..

I highly doubt that this would end WORST than the previous TT run.

----------


## CPSparkles

> 1. I am reading it, I'm not absorbing it as much as I used to due to the fact that I'm busy with other things. I'll try to re read it, but everything I've seen so far of her gives me Toga vibes, not exact no, but reminds me of her in a way. Now we still have time for me to learn to enjoy her, but I'm not sure if she's going to be a stick around character. I write myself, so yeah I get it, but as a writer too, I personally get annoyed at times when a character on another series gets popular and then everyone wants to do That character, or THAT story. (Example Dennis Hopeless with the whole Marvel Hunger Games story) 
> 
> 2. I know that, but a lot of the time writers go from awesome grown Damian to Let's create a secrete prison Damian. Same can be said of other characters too, but with him it tends to feel like it's a constant thing because at times, as with his father, some want him to be darker others lighter. I'm not saying he needs a third party, I just think that the two character could be interesting counterpoints to him and draw out other sides to his character. Like, okay look at Jon and getting him into Manga, would he have ever considered reading that a few years ago, probably not. And for the record I've been reading him since his first showing up as Damien when he kicked the hell out of Tim and nearly killed him. So Yes I've seen him grow and change. I just think at times he needs more characters around him that are not, you know, former assassins and the like. 
> 
> 3. They screw with him on the same level, true, but it also leads to mood whiplash. Go from superSon's to TT and there's a drastic change in how he's presented at times, same can be said for his outside appearances.


Jon did not get Damian into manga. That is just 100% incorrect. I don't know where you got the impression that Damian who has always enjoyed reading and painting was introduced to the world of manga by Jon

Whiplash of going from SS to TT [Teen Titans was mandated to purposely force Damian down a dark path without explanation for 5g.]

These writers wrote Damian between the OG Supersons by Tomasi and the 1st issue of Glass by TT

Orlando - Shadow/Batman
kelly and Langzing - Nightwing and Nuclear winter
Higgins -Nightwing
king -Batman
Tynion -Batman/TMNT, Metal
Snyder -Metal
Jurgens -BB
Manupaul - No justice
seeley -Nightwing, Gotham Resistance
Taylor -Tec
Giffen -Scooby doo Apocaplyse
Priest -Deathstroke
Williams-Gotham Resistance
williamson-metal
Dini -Tec 1000
Nguyen -Tec 1000
Moreci- Calvcade of Horror
Esposito - new Talent showcase 2

They all were on point with Damian. 1 out of 20 gave us OCC Damian because they were force to by Editorial so of course there's gonna be whip lash when you get used to consistency and one outlier messes it up.

The much beloved RSOB is testament to the fact that Damian even when surrounded by assassins is still 100% a hero with a heart of gold because the drive and motivation to change and to make the world better comes from Damian himself not from those around him. He has full ownership of his heroics and his quest to improve. No one else.

All characters get screwed with but unlike Bruce, Jason, Tim, cass etc Damian has been lucky. Writers have kept him consistent except for the mandated heel-turn in TT due to plans to make him the big bad in 5g.

I'd rather that writers develop the relationships that have been set up in the 15 years that Damian has been around.

Maya, colin  ,suren, Jon, Mara, Kathy, Rose, Connor, Maps, Flatline all these characters are far more interesting to me than Irey and whatsherface.

I bet bruce was super proud when he saw Damian's prison. "It's just like mine"

----------


## CPSparkles

> And we already had a Fatality.
> 
> Also was thinking, has Damien and Bruce shared their love of anime yet? I mean, Bruce knew that Martian Manhunter used the name Rei Hino from Sailor Moon back in the day, so I wonder if the two could bond over that?


DAmian not Damien

----------


## dietrich

Damian is as introverted as he ever was. The fact that after he had become pals with Jon everything was still on a need to know basis demonstrates this.

Peoples personalities don't just change. Damian is always going to struggle with new people. He will always have his guard up.

----------


## dietrich

> DAmian not Damien


Thank you. Bugs me so much when some can't get his name correct.

----------


## dietrich

> Jon did not get Damian into manga. That is just 100% incorrect. I don't know where you got the impression that Damian who has always enjoyed reading and painting was introduced to the world of manga by Jon
> 
> Whiplash of going from SS to TT [Teen Titans was mandated to purposely force Damian down a dark path without explanation for 5g.]
> 
> These writers wrote Damian between the OG Supersons by Tomasi and the 1st issue of Glass by TT
> 
> Orlando - Shadow/Batman
> kelly and Langzing - Nightwing and Nuclear winter
> Higgins -Nightwing
> ...


Again Thank you. I don't know where this idea that Damian isn't consistent comes from. It gets repeated and when you ask the person to give you examples they only have glass or bendis. 1 or 2 examples out of more than 20 [@sparkles you left out a few writers from that list] is BS

----------


## dietrich

> Oh, so I guess I know how Flatline will stick around with Damian. She will fail Lord Death Man in tournament, he will try to hunt her down for that, so Damian will bring her to Gotham with him. But Bruce won't be there for a while, so they eventually will be screwed, lol.
> Melnikov has already posted their picture in the city, so I'm sure there will be something like that.
> i'm curious, if Damian will be able to meet Bruce before he leaves Gotham? I remember Williamson mentioned, that next arc is centered around their relationship, I wonder how it's going to work out.


Hopefully they patch things up before Bruce leaves

----------


## adrikito

> Thank you. Bugs me so much when some can't get his name correct.


Same here pal

----------


## Morgoth

> Hopefully they patch things up before Bruce leaves


It's actually would be pretty interesting, if Damian leave Gotham with him. It would be a good way to fix their relationship. And it has some logic if they don't want to change Tim's identity for something different.

----------


## dietrich

> I never thought them as a poly relationship, but I loved it hahaha.


I never thought about them as poly either. I just enjoyed the dynamic between them and wanted to find out more.

----------


## adrikito

> Whiplash of going from SS to TT [Teen Titans was mandated to purposely force Damian down a dark path without explanation for 5g.]
> 
> They all were on point with Damian. 1 out of 20 gave us OCC Damian because they were force to by Editorial so of course there's gonna be whip lash when you get used to consistency and one outlier messes it up.
> 
> All characters get screwed with but unlike Bruce, Jason, Tim, cass etc Damian has been lucky. Writers have kept him consistent except for the mandated heel-turn in TT due to plans to make him the big bad in 5g.
> 
> I'd rather that writers develop the relationships that have been set up in the 15 years that Damian has been around.
> 
> Maya, colin  ,suren, Jon, Mara, Kathy, Rose, Connor, Maps, Flatline all these characters are far more interesting to me than Irey and whatsherface.
> ...


So is DIDIO fault again.. For him TT failed.

Probably even Bendis calling him SMALL HITLER is for Didio 5G..

----------


## dietrich

> It's actually would be pretty interesting, if Damian would leave with him. It would be a good way to fix their relationship. And it has some logic if they don't want to change Tim's identity for something different.


I hope Damian doesn't leave with him unless they announce another title [elseworld or something like that] starring Damian. I need my content.

Surly Bruce isn't giving up the main batman Title to Jace? DC would be stupid to replace 2 popular characters with 2 struggling ones

----------


## dietrich

> So is DIDIO fault again.. For him TT failed.
> 
> Probably even Bendis calling him SMALL HITLER is for Didio 5G..


Yeah it was for that. 
@Morgath scratch what I said. DC is just the type of company that would undermine a popular IP because reasons.

It's hard to believe that when DC saw that Supersons was the Breakout title of Rebirth their response was to break them up and mine this new friendship for angst.

While the idea of Damian as Jon's magneto is intriguing it was too soon.

----------


## Morgoth

> I hope Damian doesn't leave with him unless they announce another title [elseworld or something like that] starring Damian. I need my content.
> 
> Surly Bruce isn't giving up the main batman Title to Jace? DC would be stupid to replace 2 popular characters with 2 struggling ones


I just think, that Damian and Bruce need one good arc, and them travelling together it's actually pretty good way to make it. And it's just sound pretty shitty, if Damian finally comes back, and Bruce just leaves him behind. 
No idea, we don't know next main book writer yet, but it doesn't make any sense to give main title to Jace, since he's already got his ongoing, and also, well, he sells bad. Really. It's also DC fault, because promotion is terrible, though.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Yeah it was for that. 
> @Morgath scratch what I said. DC is just the type of company that would undermine a popular IP because reasons.
> 
> It's hard to believe that when DC saw that Supersons was the Breakout title of Rebirth their response was to break them up and mine this new friendship for angst.
> 
> While the idea of Damian as Jon's magneto is intriguing it was too soon.


It was elsewod material at best
Supersons is prime time CN material

----------


## dietrich

> It was elsewod material at best
> Supersons is prime time CN material


Couldn't agree more.

----------


## dietrich

> I just think, that Damian and Bruce need one good arc, and them travelling together it's actually pretty good way to make it. And it's just sound pretty shitty, if Damian finally comes back, and Bruce just leaves him behind. 
> No idea, we don't know next main book writer yet, but it doesn't make any sense to give main title to Jace, since he's already got his ongoing, and also, well, he sells bad. Really. It's also DC fault, because promotion is terrible, though.


Pushing jace alongside bruce undermined Jace. Not to mention that Having him as batman alongside jon's superman likely also worked against him. 

I like the ides of bruce and Damian traveling the world but somehow i don't see it. DC doesn't like Batman with Robin. Even Tynion couldn't get Tim's Robin anywhere near Bruce and was forced to use Harley and Ghostmaker

----------


## adrikito

> As for Flatline, my issue with her is that she reminds me way way way too much of the character Himiko Toga from My Hero Academia, where in she's all I have a crush on you hero even though I'm probably going to try to kill you later. Her personality to me feels very much like "Let's make a manga edgelord like baddie but also make her cool" to fill in the Harley role. That's very much what she feels like. And it grates on me as it's like a version of Live Wire in a way. Trying to be all Look how cool I am, in how she acts and what she does. Even her profile screams it down to the hobby area and the fact that she's a great martial artist, etc. Rose I can buy because of who her father is, Cassandra was trained to kill, but this girl?


Her images in Internet suggest that this Himiko Toga is CRAZY.. for someone who does not see the serie like me.. 

Flatline looks normal. Not someone that you see his/her face and you think that should be in ARKHAM

----------


## Darkspellmaster

> Damian was controversial in his first days too... 
> 
> Even now(like 15 years later to his introduction) I see Stupid youtubers saying. *WHY I HATE DAMIAN/Why He is GARBAGE* . 
> *I saw both NOW in the last weeks*(1 posted it few days ago). But only because I put Damian name in internet. Did not saw the videos because I am not interested in see their stupid reasons.
> 
> WAIT A SECOND... Luke son?? I thought that only his sister had a son. That Ben Solo who was corrupted for Palpatine..
> 
> I highly doubt that this would end WORST than the previous TT run.


Of course he was, he came in and beat the hell out of Tm who was the only other Robin at the tim till Jason came back. So there is still reason why Tim fans take umbridge. 

Yes Luke had a Son in the Star Was Old Extended universe. His name was Ben Skywalker and his Mom was a Smuggler or Bounty hunter named Mara Jade who later became a Jedi. Also Leia and Han had 3 kids, twins Jacen and Jana and a single named Anakin Solo.

I'm pretty sure it won't. But, and maybe I read  too many manga, the tournament this doest really thrill me. So I'm more excited to see what he does post it. Unless Shadow of the Bat causes issues.

----------


## Darkspellmaster

> DAmian not Damien





> Thank you. Bugs me so much when some can't get his name correct.


I am on a phone and the correct changes it to that version of the name. Maybe when I reply to the longer posts on my computer it will be easier  to spell his name. It wasn't on purpose if thats what you think, its not meant to insult  his character.

And as a side note, I wasn't meaning to imply that he shouldn't work on the already existing relationships. But its on other writers to allow for it. Issue two even notes from him that he doesn't have friends, or rather the ones he had Left him or grew to old (which makes me wonder if this is a knock to aging up Jon).

Pre new 52 you had Steph. Dick and Abuse constantly in some way, outside of Jon and Maya, of those listed who has had enough screen tim to build a strong bond for the reader. That there is an issue, the one solid is Goliath. As for Iris West II  my reason for having them be friends is mostly because their family dynamic and for him to maybe have a female friend that can get the idea of being a fourth person to hold the title of a character. Irey has the Impulse name ad Damian(caught it this time ha) has the Robin mantle.

----------


## dietrich

> I am on a phone and the correct changes it to that version of the name. Maybe when I reply to the longer posts on my computer it will be easier  to spell his name. It wasn't on purpose if thats what you think, its not meant to insult  his character.
> 
> And as a side note, I wasn't meaning to imply that he shouldn't work on the already existing relationships. But its on other writers to allow for it. Issue two even notes from him that he doesn't have friends, or rather the ones he had Left him or grew to old (which makes me wonder if this is a knock to aging up Jon).
> 
> Pre new 52 you had Steph. Dick and Abuse constantly in some way, outside of Jon and Maya, of those listed who has had enough screen tim to build a strong bond for the reader. That there is an issue, the one solid is Goliath. As for Iris West II  my reason for having them be friends is mostly because their family dynamic and for him to maybe have a female friend that can get the idea of being a fourth person to hold the title of a character. Irey has the Impulse name ad Damian(caught it this time ha) has the Robin mantle.


No worries. The Damian with an 'e' just gets my heckles up since Bendis made a point of misspelling his name to troll his fans.

----------


## dietrich

> Of course he was, he came in and beat the hell out of Tm who was the only other Robin at the tim till Jason came back. So there is still reason why Tim fans take umbridge. 
> 
> Yes Luke had a Son in the Star Was Old Extended universe. His name was Ben Skywalker and his Mom was a Smuggler or Bounty hunter named Mara Jade who later became a Jedi. Also Leia and Han had 3 kids, twins Jacen and Jana and a single named Anakin Solo.
> 
> I'm pretty sure it won't. But, and maybe I read  too many manga, the tournament this doest really thrill me. So I'm more excited to see what he does post it. Unless Shadow of the Bat causes issues.


Jason was already back and had also beat the shit out of Tim several times before Damian showed up.

Strangely enough Tim fans don't hold that against Jason or take Umbridge. I should point out that not everyone who hates Damian/makes hate videos is a Tim fan.

Seems unfair to make such assumptions

----------


## marhawkman

> And we already had a Fatality.


Wait... Yrra Cynril is here? O-o'  She normally uses... either a power ring or alien tech weapons...  Sure she's a good martial artist, but... she likes to have powerful enough weapons to fight Green Lanterns.

----------


## Darkspellmaster

> Wait... Yrra Cynril is here? O-o'  She normally uses... either a power ring or alien tech weapons...  Sure she's a good martial artist, but... she likes to have powerful enough weapons to fight Green Lanterns.


Would not be surprised if that will end up playing a part. I just don't want this to become like Hopeless hunger games story. And we end up with the near destruction of several strong young heroes.

----------


## Darkspellmaster

> No worries. The Damian with an 'e' just gets my heckles up since Bendis made a point of misspelling his name to troll his fans.


Thank you , and I wasn't fully reading the Bendis books, so missed that. Taking a level of Dan Slott there with the Trolling.






> Jason was already back and had also beat the shit out of Tim several times before Damian showed up.
> 
> Strangely enough Tim fans don't hold that against Jason or take Umbridge. I should point out that not everyone who hates Damian/makes hate videos is a Tim fan.
> 
> Seems unfair to make such assumptions


Depends on who you talked to. Jason was set up as an antagonist Damian kinda wasn't in the same way. But people were ticked about Jason attacking Tim, I think Dick fans had more of a beef and Jason fans weren't always happy with his return. I'm still mad at Talia and what she did to three of the family.

----------


## adrikito

There is a theory that Alfred "is back" as one Ghost..

https://screenrant.com/alfred-pennyw...-ghost-theory/

Screen Shot 5250.jpg


in Robin #4 when Damian meets up with Ra’s Al Ghul on a secluded island, and Alfred is nowhere to be seen until Robin returns to Corto Maltese. *Damian himself comments on the uncharacteristic appearance, saying “I noticed you were nowhere to be seen while my grandfather spoke his own kind of old man gibberish.”* While this could simply be that Damian’s psyche was still reeling from the shock of seeing Ra’s Al Ghul,* it could also be tangible proof that Alfred’s spirit is crossing over from the afterlife and avoiding exposing his true nature to those more in tune with the supernatural, such as Ra’s Al Ghul.*



I think that is weird too that he did not appeared in Robin 4.. Anyway Damian was still recovering.. Maybe it means nothing.

----------


## Eckri

> There is a theory that Alfred "is back" as one Ghost..
> 
> https://screenrant.com/alfred-pennyw...-ghost-theory/
> 
> Maybe it means nothing.


It's Screenrant, I take it with a grain of salt. 

The practical reason is that Alfred didn't appear before Ra's Al Ghul was that every time he appears it always gives Damian second thoughts on matters. Ra's was doing the same thing likely that they want Damian and Ra's to have a wholesome moment, and show Alfred giving second thoughts in the next pages.

----------


## adrikito

> It's Screenrant, I take it with a grain of salt.


I usually make it too.. Many things that they said before dislike me.

Is just that I randomly found this and I saw it interesting and wanted to post it here.

----------


## Darkspellmaster

It could be a hint that Damian may change up his tactics. Alfred did this with Tim too in human form.  I think it might be both honestly, aghast and Damian thinking that he might have to get help. Though nice to see the Family with him at the end.

----------


## marhawkman

> It's Screenrant, I take it with a grain of salt. 
> 
> The practical reason is that Alfred didn't appear before Ra's Al Ghul was that every time he appears it always gives Damian second thoughts on matters. Ra's was doing the same thing likely that they want Damian and Ra's to have a wholesome moment, and show Alfred giving second thoughts in the next pages.


Heh, one possible explanation is that Alfred isn't real.  It's just Damian going "what would Alfred say?"

----------


## Darkspellmaster

> Heh, one possible explanation is that Alfred isn't real.  It's just Damian going "what would Alfred say?"


I could buy that, given he just woke up from falling from a height and has to consider what his next moves are going to be knowing if he goes back there's a chance he could die again. Though I have to wonder how were they able to grow back his heart. Also if Ras is worried about this, then there has to be more to it.

----------


## adrikito

> Of course he was, he came in and beat the hell out of Tm who was the only other Robin at the tim till Jason came back. So there is still reason why Tim fans take umbridge. 
> 
> Yes Luke had a Son in the Star Was Old Extended universe. His name was Ben Skywalker and his Mom was a Smuggler or Bounty hunter named Mara Jade who later became a Jedi. Also Leia and Han had 3 kids, twins Jacen and Jana and a single named Anakin Solo.
> 
> I'm pretty sure it won't. But, and maybe I read  too many manga, the tournament this doest really thrill me. So I'm more excited to see what he does post it. Unless Shadow of the Bat causes issues.


One of the reasons because I prefer the other Robins.. Know that part of his fanbase hates Damian. and because I see Tim as the Smart Robin but nothing more attacts me from the character to became in his fan. 

I never added a comment in his topic appreciation and I have been here for YEARS. 

Now read his last appreciation page was depressing saying that this.. Bernand? Seems like one Male Steph.. As if the poor girl is not enough hated  :Frown:  


Someone made a TERRIBLE WORK... 2 Bens?? Why the Films one had not a different name? They just copied Luke son name.. Wow. Leia had a lot of children in that old universe.




> Strangely enough Tim fans don't hold that against Jason or take Umbridge. I should point out that not everyone who hates Damian/makes hate videos is a Tim fan.


Maybe.... Jason fans felt like that when Tim replaced him because Jason days as Robin were short.. Making it even more unfair kill and replace him.

----------


## Fergus

> One of the reasons because I prefer the other Robins.. Know that part of his fanbase hates Damian. and because I see Tim as the Smart Robin but nothing more attacts me from the character to became in his fan. 
> 
> I never added a comment in his topic appreciation and I have been here for YEARS. 
> 
> Now read his last appreciation page was depressing saying that this.. Bernand? Seems like one Male Steph.. As if the poor girl is not enough hated  
> 
> 
> Someone made a TERRIBLE WORK... 2 Bens?? Why the Films one had not a different name? They just copied Luke son name.. Wow. Leia had a lot of children in that old universe.
> 
> ...


They keep telling us that Tim is the smart Robin but Damian is smarter than Tim
They keep telling us that Tim is the detective but Dick is far far superior Detective than Tim.
Now Tim is the Bi Robin.

The Steph hate was from Tim/Kon shippers who hated her inclusion in YJ by Bendis especially. Now that they are no longer a couple that should ease up.

It's natural for fans of a replaced character to hate on the replacement. In Tim's case because the character has been struggling for years now the resentment persists.

----------


## Eckri

> Maybe.... Jason fans felt like that when Tim replaced him because Jason days as Robin were short.. Making it even more unfair kill and replace him.


I remember the comic where Jason meet Dick for the first time, complete wholesome. 

Damian met Tim and he punched him, and in verse Tim almost killed Damian in that story where Ra's al Ghul was going to be resurrected. Then Jason met Damian, and put a bullet in his chest. Him and Dick did have an wholesome first interaction, well surrounded by Ninjas is as wholesome as you can get.

But Jason fans angry that Tim replaced him? No way. 

Jason was voted out by the fans when he was Robin, remember that phone vote. 

Being replaced by Tim gave the two characters some chemistry interactions, heck I remember the one Batman issue where Batman was drugged on fear toxin and almost killed Tim Drake because he thinking he was Jason. After he was cured, Tim assures that he won't be like Jason. Also, if I recall correctly or not, didn't Jason call Tim replacement? 

Jason being replaced is core to his backstory in the modern era, you won't see people complaining on his death cause it was foundation of the Red Hood. 

Speaking of replacements, you got Tim replacing Jason, then Damian replacing Tim. While over at the Batgirl corner, you got three Batgirls whose replacements aren't seen today. Well, unless you count Bette Kane as a Bat Girl as she was replaced by Barbara, but I doubt anyone remembers Betty Kane.

----------


## adrikito

> They keep telling us that Tim is the smart Robin but Damian is smarter than Tim
> They keep telling us that Tim is the detective but Dick is far far superior Detective than Tim.
> Now Tim is the Bi Robin.
> 
> The Steph hate was from Tim/Kon shippers who hated her inclusion in YJ by Bendis especially. Now that they are no longer a couple that should ease up.
> 
> It's natural for fans of a replaced character to hate on the replacement. In Tim's case because the character has been struggling for years now the resentment persists.


I do not care who is the smartest one(I consider the other Robins smart too).. The only that I dislike is the hate against Damian.. 

But see Grayson thinking that Tim is "the best Robin" disappointed me. Is the 1ST ROBIN. He should be the BEST OF THEM with his experience.

I am not Tim&Steph biggest fan but... I accept every thing that makes her more relevant.

How bad that DC is unable to make Steph&Cass lesbian. Is something that I would like.. But unfortunately Batwoman is already lesbian.

----------


## Fergus

Robin Jason had a decent amount of fans who didn't want him killed or replaced.

Poor Damian, Writers and DC have been trying to replace him for a while now. Since Morrison left The main Batman Title. Since Snyder and his co [Tynion, Bendis] with Duke, Tim and Jarro. That didn't work so now he's having to share the role.

I just wish he was given the same breathing space to just have his tenure that Tim had for decades. I just want to enjoy the character in the Role without worrying about behind the scenes shenanigans to replace him.

----------


## Fergus

> I do not care who is the smartest one(I consider the other Robins smart too).. The only that I dislike is find weird options to hate Damian.. 
> 
> But see Grayson thinking that Tim is "the best Robin" disappointed me. Is the 1ST ROBIN. He should be the BEST OF THEM with his experience.
> 
> I am not Tim&Steph biggest fan but... I accept every thing that makes her more relevant.
> 
> How bad that DC is unable to make Steph&Cass lesbian. Is something that I would like.. But unfortunately Batwoman is already lesbian.


That was the lowest tier of fanservice by Taylor.

Dick Grayson is the best Robin. That's not even up for debate. Favourite Robin is subjective and fans are welcome to stan whichever Robin but the best is Dick Grayson.

----------


## adrikito

> Robin Jason had a decent amount of fans who didn't want him killed or replaced.
> 
> Poor Damian, Writers and DC have been trying to replace him for a while now. Since Morrison left The main Batman Title. Since Snyder and his co [Tynion, Bendis] with Duke, Tim and Jarro. That didn't work so now he's having to share the role.
> 
> I just wish he was given the same breathing space to just have his tenure that Tim had for decades. I just want to enjoy the character in the Role without worrying about behind the scenes shenanigans to replace him.


Poor Jason...

.... Yes. I heard JARRO name recently(one article praising him) and I got angry.. Is just a STUPID small star. 

With Duke the reason because I hate him is Snyder fault.(better than robin, batman does not need a robin) I see him like one insult to all the Robins in general and..... SIGNAL? Again Snyder trying to say that Duke is "Special" compared with the other Robins?
WHAT?? Tynion tried to replace Damian too??

... Anyway. *I hate more the DAMIJONS than this people or their characters*..  They only see him as one sexual object.

----------


## Domino_Dare-Doll

> That was the lowest tier of fanservice by Taylor.
> 
> Dick Grayson is the best Robin. That's not even up for debate. Favourite Robin is subjective and fans are welcome to stan whichever Robin but the best is Dick Grayson.


Oh boo-hoo.

Try saying that as a Batgirl fan with Barbara. She was the independent ally and not the side-kick, self taught to boot. Get back to me when Dick’s made to sit in the corner with a head-set and sing Tim’s praises, devaluing his own accomplishments and calling both the Nightwing and Robin identities “The costume.” At least Dick gets to suit up and have his own plot.

----------


## Eckri

> Oh boo-hoo.
> 
> Try saying that as a Batgirl fan with Barbara.


But Barbara is seen as _The_ Bat Girl. Stephanie and Cass, along with the erasure of Betty Kane as the original Bat-Girl, are secondary to what Babs achieved over the years. 

Babs and Dick are recognizable everywhere.

They both started off as side kicks and became their own self heroes: Oracle and Nightwing. 

I don't see why Bab fans would be angry when they got over decades of comics of Barbara.

----------


## Domino_Dare-Doll

> But Barbara is seen as _The_ Bat Girl. Stephanie and Cass, along with the erasure of Betty Kane as the original Bat-Girl, are secondary to what Babs achieved over the years. 
> 
> Babs and Dick are recognizable everywhere.
> 
> They both started off as side kicks and became their own self heroes: Oracle and Nightwing. 
> 
> I don't see why Bab fans would be angry when they got over decades of comics of Barbara.



Batgirl was never a side-kick role. She was created as an independent ally equal to Batman: Kelly Puckett retconned it into a sidekick role to better suit Cass.

Thing is? Dick doesn’t change by being Nightwing. Neither do Orphan or Spoiler. But Babs gets no choice as either a paralysed able-bodied hero.

Oracle means sitting behind a desk being a coordinator.
Tech support. No stories of her own; just supporting other characters. THAT is the issue.

If she got to be a costumed crime-fighter in her own right, sure, and I mean that in either a wheelchair or with the use of her legs. But she doesn’t, so there’s the anger.

And besides: let’s say Nightwing was made to hand over his costume. Without the option of being anything but a supporting role. Those fans would be pissed and expectantly so. But us Barbara fans are just meant to suck it up because it’s more ‘noble.’ 

Well Steph and Cass had their time too by that logic. And Bruce, time for him to fork his identity over to Jace. No, he’s not too special for it, Jace deserves it more. He deserves to prove it. Hand it over. Bruce has had decades, and so has Dick. 


You see how it sounds?

----------


## Eckri

> Batgirl was never a side-kick role. She was created as an independent ally equal to Batman: Kelly Puckett retconned it into a sidekick role to better suit Cass.
> 
> Thing is? Dick doesn’t change by being Nightwing. Neither do Orphan or Spoiler. But Babs gets no choice as either a paralysed able-bodied hero.
> 
> Oracle means sitting behind a desk being a coordinator.
> Tech support. No stories of her own; just supporting other characters. THAT is the issue.
> 
> If she got to be a costumed crime-fighter in her own right, sure, and I mean that in either a wheelchair or with the use of her legs. But she doesn’t, so there’s the anger.
> 
> ...


Fair point, I can see and somewhat understand why fans are angry. Fair points. 

But if I may ask on the origin on Batgirl, and correct me if I'm wrong. When you say Batgirl was created to be an independent ally of Batman: 

Wasn't the original Bat-Girl which was Betty Kane who was...the side kick of Batwoman? (Kinda? She wasn't kinda of a Side-Kick more like appeared out of nowhere and helped Batman, Batwoman, and Robin) 
and appeared in a issues in Batman comics, along with Titans West. 

And Barbara came along and rebranded it as she was the Bat-Girl who isn't a sidekick but equal and independent to Batman?

----------


## dietrich

> Oh boo-hoo.
> 
> Try saying that as a Batgirl fan with Barbara. She was the independent ally and not the side-kick, self taught to boot. Get back to me when Dicks made to sit in the corner with a head-set and sing Tims praises, devaluing his own accomplishments and calling both the Nightwing and Robin identities The costume. At least Dick gets to suit up and have his own plot.


Dick was made to do just that in the Tim's Robin solo.
Babs was having her solo plot till recently, there's nothing to say she won't again.

It suck's when management or entitled fans demand/try to replace a character you enjoy. Any character. This is Damian's thread so I'm sure you can understand why the comments are damian/other Robin focused. Conversations here tend to focus on Damian or Robin related. That doesn't mean that we are not aware of the issues/handling of other non Robin characters or that we think that Babs has it made.

----------


## dietrich

> Batgirl was never a side-kick role. She was created as an independent ally equal to Batman: Kelly Puckett retconned it into a sidekick role to better suit Cass.
> 
> Thing is? Dick doesn’t change by being Nightwing. Neither do Orphan or Spoiler. But Babs gets no choice as either a paralysed able-bodied hero.
> 
> Oracle means sitting behind a desk being a coordinator.
> Tech support. No stories of her own; just supporting other characters. THAT is the issue.
> 
> If she got to be a costumed crime-fighter in her own right, sure, and I mean that in either a wheelchair or with the use of her legs. But she doesn’t, so there’s the anger.
> 
> ...


I don't think many fans expect Babsgirl fans to suck it up.
I like babs as Batgirl in her own title. I don't think the Oracle function has much justification since all the bats can function without tech support [they have been doing for years now] If that's not noble I don't care. I like what I like.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Oh boo-hoo.
> 
> Try saying that as a Batgirl fan with Barbara. She was the independent ally and not the side-kick, self taught to boot. Get back to me when Dick’s made to sit in the corner with a head-set and sing Tim’s praises, devaluing his own accomplishments and calling both the Nightwing and Robin identities “The costume.” At least Dick gets to suit up and have his own plot.


Dude. People are not even talking about Batgirl. Don't make it about your problem. You already have a thread for that.

----------


## Domino_Dare-Doll

> Dude. People are not even talking about Batgirl. Don't make it about your problem. You already have a thread for that.


No, because it’s the exact same thing. Sorry Dick, you don’t mean anything in this role, time to fuck right off! 

If it applies to Batgirl, then it applies to EVERYONE.

----------


## Domino_Dare-Doll

> I don't think many fans expect Babsgirl fans to suck it up.
> I like babs as Batgirl in her own title. I don't think the Oracle function has much justification since all the bats can function without tech support [they have been doing for years now] If that's not noble I don't care. I like what I like.


And that’s where you’re wrong, because that’s absolutely what’s happening. The Oracle function is redundant at this point, but they don’t care, they just want Blandgirls to maybe not be bland.

----------


## adrikito

> That was the lowest tier of fanservice by Taylor.
> 
> Dick Grayson is the best Robin. That's not even up for debate. Favourite Robin is subjective and fans are welcome to stan whichever Robin but the best is Dick Grayson.


I did not knew that it was Taylor who made that...

I adore Damian but.. I saw and learned enough about Dick to understand that he is the BEST of the Robins.

----------


## adrikito

I would make one visit to ROBINS topic.. There are some images about that Robins meeting(white&black):

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...=1#post5684823

----------


## Eckri

So he made a cameo in latest nightwing issue.
Just saying that Dick won in some competition in the Batfamily messenger group.

Guessing the timeline is

Robin issue 4 -> Robin Issue 5 -> Son of Kal-El -> Nightwing Issue 83. 

Since I doubt Damian will be in that group chat before the Robin Issue 5

----------


## adrikito

> So he made a cameo in latest nightwing issue.
> Just saying that Dick won in some competition in the Batfamily messenger group.
> 
> Guessing the timeline is
> 
> Robin issue 4 -> Robin Issue 5 -> Son of Kal-El -> Nightwing Issue 83. 
> 
> Since I doubt Damian will be in that group chat before the Robin Issue 5


BATFAMILY MESSENGER GROUP?? Damian is trying to avoid them.

Maybe that messenger group is something PRE-Robin

----------


## Blue22

I'm thinking this probably takes place after issue #5. Otherwise, yeah, he wouldn't be in a group chat with the rest of the Batfam lol

Either way, it was nice hearing from him in some capacity.

----------


## adrikito

> Either way, it was nice hearing from him in some capacity.


Yeah you are right in that..

Or maybe after leave Lazarus Island.. To not be HACKED for batman.

----------


## Drako

> BATFAMILY MESSENGER GROUP?? Damian is trying to avoid them.
> 
> Maybe that messenger group is something PRE-Robin


Maybe he put the group chat on silence.

----------


## Iclifton

> So he made a cameo in latest nightwing issue.
> Just saying that Dick won in some competition in the Batfamily messenger group.
> 
> Guessing the timeline is
> 
> Robin issue 4 -> Robin Issue 5 -> Son of Kal-El -> Nightwing Issue 83. 
> 
> Since I doubt Damian will be in that group chat before the Robin Issue 5


Honestly do not think DC is putting much stock into continuity right now. I wouldn't worry too much about where things line up, willing to bet there will be several inconsistencies regardless.

----------


## adrikito

> Maybe he put the group chat on silence.


I think that forming part of that chat Bruce or ORACLE could still find him..

Anyway. No matter. I will think that this happened BEFORE or AFTER this mortal kombat tournament

----------


## adrikito

New Gleb image.. The GANG vs the rest of fighters?

Robin preview Damian Wayne Flatline Rose Wilson Connor Hawke.jpg

----------


## Rac7d*

I saw Shang chi today

Danm Damian,

----------


## dietrich

> New Gleb image.. The GANG vs the rest of fighters?
> 
> Robin preview Damian Wayne Flatline Rose Wilson Connor Hawke.jpg


Gleb's art style is so perfect for this type of comic [Teen and actiony]

I wonder if they are fighting the others to stop the Tournament?

----------


## dietrich

> I saw Shang chi today
> 
> Danm Damian,


What do you mean?

----------


## Arsenal

> Gleb's art style is so perfect for this type of comic [Teen and actiony]
> 
> I wonder if they are fighting the others to stop the Tournament?


Could also be a round in the tournament. Instead of a bunch of 1 on 1 fight maybe they mix it up.

----------


## adrikito

I know that is not Damian related but... Son of Kal-El had a 2ND PRINTING?? 

*I think that Robin 1 was not as lucky as that* and unlike him Damian existed for 15 YEARS.

https://twitter.com/TomTaylorMade/st...39016124010496

----------


## Morgoth

I remember Williamson said that first issue had good sells, and it was in top of Comixology and Amazon.

----------


## Lal

> I remember Williamson said that first issue had good sells, and it was in top of Comixology and Amazon.


Robin 1 was the 7 best selling book of the month when it was released, not just on DC, but overall - https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...1/2021-04.html

While there's still no official comichorn table for June, it seems like superman son of Kal-el was about the 34 selling book of the July - https://icv2.com/articles/markets/vi...mics-july-2021
So it seems like the retailers just didn't order too many copies at first, and that's how the book got a second printing.

----------


## adrikito

> Robin 1 was the 7 best selling book of the month when it was released, not just on DC, but overall - https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...1/2021-04.html
> 
> While there's still no official comichorn table for June, it seems like superman son of Kal-el was about the 34 selling book of the July - https://icv2.com/articles/markets/vi...mics-july-2021
> So it seems like the retailers just didn't order too many copies at first, and that's how the book got a second printing.


Ah... I see.. They did not had enough copies. Now I understand it

----------


## dietrich

> I know that is not Damian related but... Son of Kal-El had a 2ND PRINTING?? 
> 
> *I think that Robin 1 was not as lucky as that* and unlike him Damian existed for 15 YEARS.
> 
> https://twitter.com/TomTaylorMade/st...39016124010496



An issue going for 2nd print doesn't mean that it sold more. It means that retailers ran of the issues they ordered.

In the case of some titles that Retailers and Publishers are not confident will be guaranteed sellers [or titles that they fear won't be well received] retailers will order low numbers so that they aren't left with unsold issues.

The actual sales figures is the important metric.

Son of Kal El #1 sold 54,000 copies before 2nd printing and debuted at no 34 on the charts.

Robin #1 debuted at no 7  when it was released [April]This doesn't include online, shipped to consumers or sales outside of north America.

For comparison the 1 spot for the month of April was to BRZRKR which sold 148,000 before 2nd print.

So the publishers and retailers were aware that BRZKRK was guaranteed to sell very well so they were confident to order high quantities. Unlike with Son of Kal El

----------


## Rac7d*

> What do you mean?


I never new how similar they are

----------


## Rac7d*

Very excited for this !B125C03E-AF1D-421F-890C-D9BFBD68B42A.jpg

----------


## adrikito

Robin 5 preview:

https://aiptcomics.com/2021/08/20/dc-preview-robin-5/


I like see Damian trolling Dick...


To pass to the 2ND ROUND everyone had to die... So to pass to the FINAL ROUND everyone(or all minus 1) should die a 2ND TIME too??  :Confused: 

I think that Damian will die a 2nd time... To make the final against Connor more exciting.

----------


## dietrich

> Robin 5 preview:
> 
> https://aiptcomics.com/2021/08/20/dc-preview-robin-5/
> 
> 
> I like see Damian trolling Dick...
> 
> 
> To pass to the 2ND ROUND everyone had to die... So to pass to the FINAL ROUND everyone(or all minus 1) should die a 2ND TIME too?? 
> ...


Damian isn't trolling Dick he's talking to the audience.

To those fans who wonder who is robin and if he is getting a new code name.

He is THE Official Robin in a Robin book wearing an R. He is Robin and he will be Respected.

I hope Damian wins in the fight with Connor

----------


## Rac7d*

> Damian isn't trolling Dick he's talking to the audience.
> 
> To those fans who wonder who is robin and if he is getting a new code name.
> 
> He is THE Official Robin in a Robin book wearing an R. He is Robin and he will be Respected.
> 
> I hope Damian wins in the fight with Connor


It’s kinda been fine before becuase Tim was invisible but I see fuss in the future

----------


## Blue22

> Very excited for this !B125C03E-AF1D-421F-890C-D9BFBD68B42A.jpg


Look at 'em! Look at all my Batchildren together again! So Beautiful!!!!

----------


## Jackalope89

> Look at 'em! Look at all my Batchildren together again! So Beautiful!!!!


Well, no Cass. But pretty close at least.

----------


## Fergus

> Well, no Cass. But pretty close at least.


Do we know which of the Batkids are actually Batkids?

I know that Bruce is legally responsible for or legally the parent of Dick, jason, Tim and Damian.
Duke has his uncle as a legal Guardian I recall from his mini.

What is Cass' status?

----------


## adrikito

> Damian isn't trolling Dick he's talking to the audience.
> 
> To those fans who wonder who is robin and if he is getting a new code name.
> 
> He is THE Official Robin in a Robin book wearing an R. He is Robin and he will be Respected.
> 
> I hope Damian wins in the fight with Connor


The R could mean Redbird too but.. The Comic is called ROBIN. So he can only be Robin here.

Same here. His last combat against him(november cover) looked like if he was losing.

----------


## Eckri

With Mother Soul and her followers using some form of ancient magic, made me remember the time he used a magic wand against Gotham Girl in City of Bane. 

You guys think Damian still have some magic wands to spare? More importantly, Damian is one of the Bat family members to somewhat use magic, albeit a magic item not doing magic ala Constantine or Zatanna. 

Come to think of it, should Damian in some way learn more about magic? 

There was an alternate earth where the gimmick was gender reverse, Damian was a girl and was in a team with female Klarion. 
Thinking of it, yeah Damian and Klarion team-up adventures in the main universe, yeah I dig that, like Stephanie and Klarion in the old Batgirl run. 

Hope after the tournament arc it's just Damian going on adventures, maybe can be like Batman the Brave and the Bold. Damian teams up with characters in his crusading adventure.

----------


## Morgoth

Well, I guess they made it clear, that Tim needs to get something new. 



> Hope after the tournament arc it's just Damian going on adventures, maybe can be like Batman the Brave and the Bold. Damian teams up with characters in his crusading adventure.


His next arc is something to do with Gotham and Bruce, Williamson mentioned that.
Maybe Damian will leave Gotham with him, though.

----------


## Darkspellmaster

> One of the reasons because I prefer the other Robins.. Know that part of his fanbase hates Damian. and because I see Tim as the Smart Robin but nothing more attacts me from the character to became in his fan. 
> 
> I never added a comment in his topic appreciation and I have been here for YEARS.


The hate has long since gone down, but the annoyance comes from the fact that Tim keeps getting skills taken from him to service Damian or Jason or another character. He was considered the most detective like of the group but now Bruce says that Duke has that skill, Steph took his hacking, etc. Honestly there's not a lot of Damian hate in Tim's thread mor being upset that DC keeps screwing him over.




> Now read his last appreciation page was depressing saying that this.. Bernand? Seems like one Male Steph.. As if the poor girl is not enough hated


He pretty much seems to be a genderbent version of her, yeah, but likely he will be a villain or something. If not then were gonna have another Stephanie factor playing into him.





> Someone made a TERRIBLE WORK... 2 Bens?? Why the Films one had not a different name? They just copied Luke son name.. Wow. Leia had a lot of children in that old universe.


The reason they used it for Ben Solo was because its an easy name to give. Because Obi-wan is popular and it is dumb. Yup copy paste, might as well just done the old EU.  Yes she did and a grand daughter too.





> Maybe.... Jason fans felt like that when Tim replaced him because Jason days as Robin were short.. Making it even more unfair kill and replace him.


As others have said, not as much but people were not happy he died. The issue with Damian was that rather than give Tim time to move to Red Robin Damian crashed in and was a whirlwind. I have to wonder, given Morrison, if I recall right, wanted Damian dead, thus leaving Tim as Robin for a bit longer. 




> They keep telling us that Tim is the smart Robin but Damian is smarter than Tim
> They keep telling us that Tim is the detective but Dick is far far superior Detective than Tim.
> Now Tim is the Bi Robin.


Tim was supposed to be like Peter Parker. Smart and clever. He was a good detective and computer smart. Dick is good at investigating but Tim was supposed to be a more Holmes type to Dicks Poirot type. They were both supposed to excel at detective work but Tim was supposed to have a leg up on Dick with his  computer skills.
Yup, and I really don't want it to go the way of Iceman.




> The Steph hate was from Tim/Kon shippers who hated her inclusion in YJ by Bendis especially. Now that they are no longer a couple that should ease up.


Always wondered if Cass ever got the hate from them. Eh, it won't because if they can't hat Bernard, which they will, they will end up sending anger at her for nagging him over the break up.




> It's natural for fans of a replaced character to hate on the replacement. In Tim's case because the character has been struggling for years now the resentment persists.


Yup and Damian was getting a push Tim did not get. It would be nice if Tim was given some sort of push just to keep them equal in some ways.





> Poor Jason...
> 
> .... Yes. I heard JARRO name recently(one article praising him) and I got angry.. Is just a STUPID small star.


I think Jarro is meant to be a joke, a H.E.R.B.I.E. type character for "kids" (herbie is a robot that replaced Jonny in the Fantastic four cartoon  due to fears kids would light themselves on fire.), and a maket toy like Baby Yoda. I don't think it's meant to be serious.




> With Duke the reason because I hate him is Snyder fault.(better than robin, batman does not need a robin) I see him like one insult to all the Robins in general and..... SIGNAL? Again Snyder trying to say that Duke is "Special" compared with the other Robins?
> WHAT?? Tynion tried to replace Damian too??


Snyder wanted to have a character that was different than the Robins we've had before and bring in more diverse characters. I don't think he's meant to be an insult to the Robins. Duke is meant to be special, but in the same way Jean Paul is.




> ... Anyway. *I hate more the DAMIJONS than this people or their characters*..  They only see him as one sexual object.


Jon fans are more pissed that we lost supersons and the like with younger Jon over if Jon and Damian are a pair. Also welcome to the issue of TimKon shipping.

----------


## Konja7

> As others have said, not as much but people were not happy he died. The issue with Damian was that rather than give Tim time to move to Red Robin Damian crashed in and was a whirlwind. I have to wonder, given Morrison, if I recall right, wanted Damian dead, thus leaving Tim as Robin for a bit longer.


I've understood Morrison doesn't planned that Tim stopped to be Robin. As you mentioned, his plan was to kill Damian permanently.

It was editorial who decided that Tim should change identity. I guess they don't want two Robins at that time.

----------


## dietrich

@ Darkspellmaster you are 1000% wrong

Damian and jason have never taken any skills or traits away from Tim.

tim on the other hand has borrowed from Dick, carrie and Damian

The world's 2nd Greatest dectective -from Dick
Fanboy who sought out Batman -Carrie
Robin who juggled a normal life with heroics -Carrie
Robin who was adopted by Bruce -Jason
Robin who saved Bruce from a Dark Time -Carrie and Dick
Smart Kid who can take on adults - Dick
Ra's interest -Damian and Dick
Good with tech -Babs
Batman's heir -Dick and Damian
Half Asian - Damian
Robin costume with tights -Dick
African american skin tone - Duke
Tim frim BTAS totally jacked no just Jason's personality but his origin and back story.

The hate/salt from tim fans still remain and festers to this day because as Jason and Damian's popularity has sky rocketed Tim has declined remarkably to a point where the character along with 3 other 90's fav's can't even carry a title [something Damian and Jason can do solo]

They are salty because Tim has declined so much that game makers and tv shows have to put him in Damian's skin just to trick casuals [the interest in GK's Robin nose dived once it was revealed that it was Tim not Damian as was previously assumed]

You might have considered Tim the detective but The only one that canon has ever called the 2nd greatest is Dick Grayson. The one in Canon who has the feats to back up the greatest detective aside from Bruce is Dick. 

Lets just cut that fanon crap right now and put respect on the Robins on Dick Grayson who was pillaged so Tim Drake can stand. [what is it with fans tearing other characters down to prop up another?]

The Damian hate is still going strong not just on here but on other forums.



There is nothing that anyone has ever taken from Tim aside from a bo Staff.

Tim has gotten more chances than any of the bat boys it's just that he keeps failing or fans keep rejecting it.

Pre Flashpoint - he had the RR solo
new 52 - DC kicked Terry out of his title for Tim -BB
New 52 -DC gave Dick history of being a tT founder to Tim and gave him the TT book
New 52- Tim had a lead role in BRE all the Robins did aside from Damian the actual Robin who only came on in the last few issues 

Tim had 3 titles in new 52 while Damian had 1

Rebirth - Tynion screwed over Jason. Giving his starring role in tec [DC 2nd most circulated ongoing] to Tim
Rebirth -Tim and his gen got YJ and were the face of Wonder comics DC teen imprint. They were given a huge name and a huge PR Push 

Rebirth - Tim was the lead in Titans burning by Jurgens

Despite all that Tim is still declining and yet DC is still investing in him. No other Robin has ever gotten anything close to that kind of push or that many chances.

The thing with Tim drake fans is that they seem to lack awareness and are entitled as fuck.

They are the most pandered to out of all the Robins yet they keep calming that dC is screwing Tim over. Jason is far more popular yet Tim gets more push.

Damian is far more popular and sells more yet Dc keeps letting Tim fanboys undermine him for a character that doesn't have the sales or name recognition he has.

The Damian hate is real of course there's little Damian hate on the tim thread. That place was a ghost town until he was outed. However there are many threads started by Tim fans arguing that damian was better off dead

Tim's decline isn't due to lack of push or lack of chances.

It isn't because his skill's were given to anyone
It isn't because he was screwed over.

Tim's decline is because more choices were added leading to increased competition.
A lot of people seem to consider him dull and uninteresting even Tynion penned Tim who was brilliant at everything was a dud. skills sets and such aren't actually what makers a characters interesting. 

Being the bestest doesn't mean jack.

Damian and Jason are more popular simply because more people prefer them that's all and Tim fans can die mad  :Cool: 

Sorry for any mistakes. I typed this pissed now excuse me I've got to catch up on Williamsons Robin

----------


## dietrich

> I've understood Morrison doesn't planned that Tim stopped to be Robin. As you mentioned, his plan was to kill Damian permanently.
> 
> It was editorial who decided that Tim should change identity. I guess they don't want two Robins at that time.


Editorial decided that Tim should change identities and that Duke was to be the new Robin.

----------


## dietrich

@ darkspellmaster do you know how long the RR solo ran for? WTf do you mean Tim wasn't given enough time to become RR? He was. More than enough Time  was given.

Tim was given more time than Jason and Dick before so put it back in the can. 

We discuss canon not fanon here.

FYI

Only one person here said that jason fans weren't pissed off so don't do that *'as some people here have said business*
one person said it and that one person wasn't reading comics back in the 80's when Jason was killed so they have no idea what it was like.

Morrison made provisions for Tim as did DC. Morrison gave him a key role in his run and he got a solo that had more than 20 issues. A decent amount of fans loved what was done with Tim in RR and to this day still lament that DC didn't keep up with the RR solo.

They did more than enough to move Tim on. They invested a lot in a character even when his sales no longer justified such investments

----------


## adrikito

> The hate has long since gone down, but the annoyance comes from the fact that Tim keeps getting skills taken from him to service Damian or Jason or another character. He was considered the most detective like of the group but now Bruce says that Duke has that skill, Steph took his hacking, etc. Honestly there's not a lot of Damian hate in Tim's thread mor being upset that DC keeps screwing him over.
> .


I see.. So is not only Damian who is "taking some Tim skills"..




> Now read his last appreciation page was depressing saying that this.. Bernand? Seems like one Male Steph.. As if the poor girl is not enough hated


Yeah... Is something sad. I was involved in one discussion about that.. Fortunately even if it was said that was a terrible ROBIN the persons who said that admitted that as Batgirl was Great and that Steph works well as Spoiler.




> The reason they used it for Ben Solo was because its an easy name to give. Because Obi-wan is popular and it is dumb. Yup copy paste, might as well just done the old EU. Yes she did and a grand daughter too.


Not surprised about it..




> As others have said, not as much but people were not happy he died. The issue with Damian was that rather than give Tim time to move to Red Robin Damian crashed in and was a whirlwind. I have to wonder, given Morrison, if I recall right, wanted Damian dead, thus leaving Tim as Robin for a bit longer.


Probably it was Morrison. I think that I heard that before.





> I think Jarro is meant to be a joke, a H.E.R.B.I.E. type character for "kids" (herbie is a robot that replaced Jonny in the Fantastic four cartoon due to fears kids would light themselves on fire.), and a maket toy like Baby Yoda. I don't think it's meant to be serious.
> .


Maybe I overreacted. Is only a SMALL STAR. Without matter what Snyder makes that small star can´t turn in the new Harley..




> Duke is meant to be special, but in the same way Jean Paul is.


Jean Paul was BATMAN. Of course that is special




> Jon fans are more pissed that we lost supersons and the like with younger Jon over if Jon and Damian are a pair. Also welcome to the issue of TimKon shipping.


*I am lost here.. Supersons is not still a comic??* Even if I left it after one Supervillain made Damian a grandpa(it was humiliating how the character was used after that.) I heard about that a lot about Supersons these years.. Like if DC has been releasing Volumes without stop.


Or you are saying that Jon fans(lets ignore that Damijon here) like Wonderwoman fans(with the origin) are pissed because their character was aged in a crazy way? Because is something that I can understand.. I am happy that Damian was not aged in a crazy way without reason.


Anyway to be fair.. Watch *AquaLASS*  :Stick Out Tongue:  made me want to see Andy aged in the normal DC canon  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## adrikito

> I've understood Morrison doesn't planned that Tim stopped to be Robin. As you mentioned, his plan was to kill Damian permanently.
> .


We were lucky that he Failed here.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I see.. So is not only Damian who is "taking some Tim skills"..
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah... Is something sad. I was involved in one discussion about that.. Fortunately even if it was said that was a terrible ROBIN the persons who said that admitted that as Batgirl was Great and that Steph works well as Spoiler.
> 
> 
> Not surprised about it..
> 
> ...


DC did release some Super Sons, but they're confined to a very small time frame of before the age-up. But the real kick in the crotch for Jon fans, is that we wanted to watch him grow as a character. The age-up stole that. Years worth of stories are gone.

----------


## adrikito

> DC did release some Super Sons, but they're confined to a very small time frame of before the age-up. But the real kick in the crotch for Jon fans, is that we wanted to watch him grow as a character. The age-up stole that. Years worth of stories are gone.


I see...

I think that I heard that is DIDIO fault that Bendis had to make that with him.


I am grateful that his plans did not advanced more making Damian a villain.. 

Hmmm. Maybe I should BLAME DIDIO intentions to make Damian a Villain for that Terrible TTs run.  :Mad: 




> Tim has gotten more chances than any of the bat boys it's just that he keeps failing or fans keep rejecting it.
> 
> Pre Flashpoint - he had the RR solo
> new 52 - DC kicked Terry out of his title for Tim -BB
> New 52 -DC gave Dick history of being a tT founder to Tim and gave him the TT book
> New 52- Tim had a lead role in BRE all the Robins did aside from Damian the actual Robin who only came on in the last few issues 
> 
> Tim had 3 titles in new 52 while Damian had 1
> 
> ...


I can´t believe that I forgot this... Yeah it was REALLY WEIRD replace Terry for Tim during some time. Not saying that I hated it. I saw it until the end. Just that I saw it weird because the BB world is Terry timeline.

Yes. DC tried many things with him in the last years.


I gave him a chance in the past too but.... I decided that I liked more the other Robins(Included Steph that I consider a funny and positive character) and nothing changed my mind.

----------


## Aahz

> Robin who juggled a normal life with heroics -Carrie


Not really, I mean she had a normal family, but she never did the "Peter Parker" thing.




> Smart Kid who can take on adults - Dick


That's something every Robin can.




> Pre Flashpoint - he had the RR solo


 after he lost his Robin solo that was still doing OK after more than 180 issues.




> New 52 -DC gave Dick history of being a tT founder to Tim and gave him the TT book


 But they also erased completly the history of Tim's incarnation of the Team. DC was basically just continuing with the Teen Titans line up the had before Flashpoint, while completely erasing the history of all incarnations of the team.




> New 52- Tim had a lead role in BRE all the Robins did aside from Damian the actual Robin who only came on in the last few issues


No he had pointless side plot along side Jason in the first half of the series, and was mostly used as jobber after wards. The actual leads were Dick, Harper and Cass.




> Tim had 3 titles in new 52 while Damian had 1


I would claim that Damian had two, Batman and Robin was (appart from the time when he was dead) at least as much his book as Batman's, and he had there at least as much page time as Tim in Teen Titans.




> Rebirth - Tynion screwed over Jason. Giving his starring role in tec [DC 2nd most circulated ongoing] to Tim


??? I have never heared that Jason was supposed to have a staring role in TEC.

----------


## adrikito

I saw these sketches in *Roger Cruz* Twitter. 

He is one artist that will work in ROBIN ANNUAL 1. They look COOL.* I hope that he uses this Costume during some years.
*
https://leagueofcomicgeeks.com/comic...-2021-annual-1

Damian Wayne Robin sketches.jpg

Damian Wayne Robin sketches 2.jpg

----------


## Harryrun

> @ darkspellmaster do you know how long the RR solo ran for? WTf do you mean Tim wasn't given enough time to become RR? He was. More than enough Time  was given.


IMO its more of Tim fans refusing to move on of him being Robin, a lot want him to be Robin for eternity. Like a lot were happy when he became Robin again. Its like wanting your kid to be in school forever and never graduate.

----------


## adrikito

> IMO its more of Tim fans refusing to move on of him being Robin, a lot want him to be Robin for eternity. Like a lot were happy when he became Robin again. Its like wanting your kid to be in school forever and never graduate.


I wonder why they DC don´t call him RED ROBIN again.. Surprised too that some fans are not interested in see their character evolve.

Anyway... Maybe while they decide Damian can change from ROBIN to REDBIRD for example.

Robin 2021 Damian Wayne costumes.jpg

----------


## HsssH

Well Tim as _the_ Robin is more relevant than Tim as Red Robin. 

I think the question is can character really change his codename without losing relevancy these days? Dick did it when comics were still moving forward so someone growing up and changing codename made sense. Jason was dead for a long time and he couldn't really go back to being Robin so DC was forced to come up with new identity and its not like Jason's fans had any alternatives, they were happy that he was back in the first place.

I don't think that Tim and Damian can move out of being Robin without losing something in the process. Unfortunately for Tim, and fortunately for us, DC will pick Damian over Tim most of the time.

----------


## adrikito

I see.

Between 2 ROBINS and 2 SUPERBOYS I hope that DC learned a lesson a don´t create a 2ND Wondergirl too.. I think that TIM GENERATION is cursed somehow.

One Damian fanart with Flatline included:

Robin 2021 Damian Wayne Flatline.jpg

----------


## Drako

> I see.
> 
> Between 2 ROBINS and 2 SUPERBOYS I hope that DC learned a lesson a don´t create a *2ND Wondergirl too*.. I think that TIM GENERATION is cursed somehow.


What? They already have a second Wonder Girl alongside Cassie, it's Yara Flor.

----------


## adrikito

> What? They already have a second Wonder Girl alongside Cassie, it's Yara Flor.


I thought that this character was only in Future State as Wonder Woman..

Yes. You are right. I visited DC wiki and is considered a Wondergirl in the present.. I feel bad for Cassie. 


I was thinking more in for example one Wonderwoman "daughter"(like the Supersons case) that would be bad for Cassie but... It seems that DC made it without give one daughter to Diana. Tim generation is not really lucky these days.


Anyway.. No matter. When I feel bad for Tim his toxic fans ruin it.

These days with the Tim BI thing some Tim fans(in reddit) are pointing out DAMIAN as a better option("with more sense") to be Homo/Bi than their Tim. *One of them after apologize for talk like that even said that Dick Grayson coming out would be cool*(after mention Damian of course). Yeah. Every option is Cool as long as is not your character.

----------


## marhawkman

> What? They already have a second Wonder Girl alongside Cassie, it's Yara Flor.


Second?  Cassie isn't even the first Wonder Girl  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Drako

> Second?  Cassie isn't even the first Wonder Girl


I'm talking about having two Wonder Girls at the same time, not that she was the first.

----------


## Aahz

> I think the question is can character really change his codename without losing relevancy these days?


Only if the change really feels like a step up, and that kind of requires a good story and a solid plan what to do with the character after wards.

When they did it with Dick, New Teen Titans was pretty hot book at the time and I think they sold it well that this was Dick growing out of the Robin role.

In case of Jason I don't think you can really count it as a change. I mean I think most of his current fans are fans because of Under the Red Hood and not because of his run as Robin.

In case of Tim going from Robin to Red Robin, didn't real felt much of a step up (same with Cassandra Cain Black Bat) and the change to Drake was just poorly handled (and the costume was terrible).


But I think in the end the main problem for Tim was that Flashpoint came to fast after the switch, that the character lost to much of history in flashpoint, and that he didn't really had a good series since than.

----------


## Aahz

> They did more than enough to move Tim on. They invested a lot in a character even when his sales no longer justified such investments


The final issue of Red Robin sold 26K. That was higher than some series they keep going in the new 52 (like Birds of Prey, Green Arrow, Superboy and Supergirl).

----------


## Rac7d*

> The final issue of Red Robin sold 26K. That was higher than some series they keep going in the new 52 (like Birds of Prey, Green Arrow, Superboy and Supergirl).


Those sales did not hold up with his teen titans run in the new 52

----------


## Darkspellmaster

> @ darkspellmaster do you know how long the RR solo ran for? WTf do you mean Tim wasn't given enough time to become RR? He was. More than enough Time  was given.


Post 52, pre new 52 he was fine, post 52 he kept being shifted all over the place from Lodbell to whom ever too the title up after.  Pre he was fine, and it made sense post, we had the screw up with the 5 years, and the same for Damian because we lost all the traction with Dick, since how did that even work in the time line. 




> Tim was given more time than Jason and Dick before so put it back in the can. 
> 
> We discuss canon not fanon here.


Comics sure, pre 52 sure other media, no. Even his BTAS self is Jason light. Tim as Tim has only had the YJ show and thats again Dicks thing, so to non comic readers Tim hasn't been given a fair shake. Damian has what 4 movies under his belt?




> FYI
> 
> Only one person here said that jason fans weren't pissed off so don't do that *'as some people here have said business*
> one person said it and that one person wasn't reading comics back in the 80's when Jason was killed so they have no idea what it was like.


Didn't say Jason fans weren't ticked, but it was a different sort as there was space between Jason being Dead and Tim coming in. There wasn't breathing room for Tim to Damian in the same way.

[QUOTE Morrison made provisions for Tim as did DC. Morrison gave him a key role in his run and he got a solo that had more than 20 issues. A decent amount of fans loved what was done with Tim in RR and to this day still lament that DC didn't keep up with the RR solo.[/QUOTE]

That's what I'm getting at here though. All pre 52 stuff. Post, he's become a shell, hell you have people arguing that he and Jason should be retired to shrink the bat family. Damian right now has the notice, at least until someone comes up with a new Robin as he gets older. When he hits Jon's new age I'm pretty sure we might get a new Robin. 




> They did more than enough to move Tim on. They invested a lot in a character even when his sales no longer justified such investments


Again Pre 52 sure, post, not as much and not in other media.

----------


## Daedalus

> Those sales did not hold up with his teen titans run in the new 52


In all fairness, that was a pretty bad book.

----------


## Darkspellmaster

> In all fairness, that was a pretty bad book.


Agreed.

Part of the issue isn't Tim fans wanting him to stay on as Robin, its that the natural growth afforded to say Walley and Dick has not been give to the younger gen characters. Example from Marvel, The Young Avengers recently had Teddy and Billy get married. Where as DC force aged Bart and then killed him as the Flash. The issue is that Tim fans, and I'm sure Damian fans feel this too, want the character to grow. No one would like Damian stuck forever at 14 and not allowed to grow naturally as a character or get his own code name. Same is for Tim, only he gets stuck because writers can't seem to be allowed to get him an advance. 

I'm curious whats going to happen should a future bat writer has a different character become robin?

----------


## Konja7

> I thought that this character was only in Future State as Wonder Woman..
> 
> Yes. You are right. I visited DC wiki and is considered a Wondergirl in the present.. I feel bad for Cassie.


Yara isn't only considered Wonder Girl in the present. She currently has a solo (which Cassie never has).






> These days with the Tim BI thing some Tim fans(in reddit) are pointing out DAMIAN as a better option("with more sense") to be Homo/Bi than their Tim. *One of them after apologize for talk like that even said that Dick Grayson coming out would be cool*(after mention Damian of course). Yeah. Every option is Cool as long as is not your character.


That's true. They could try to justify that another character makes "more sense", but they just don't want their favorite character to be gay or bi.

----------


## Kid Devil

Looking back at it I'm surprised Cassie never got her own solo series. Robin and Superboy each had one that went for 100 issues or more while all she really got was to be leader of the Teen Titans for a bit and I didn't find her too convincing in that position. She went on about how important it was for  was for her but as soon as Red Robin came back she submitted to him like she had no spine.

----------


## Darkspellmaster

Cassie has a very short one i thought but it got shelved sadly because of the reboot that was coming.

----------


## Kid Devil

I remember her getting a one shot in 2011. If that was going to be the start of an ongoing series that would have been awesome.

----------


## Aahz

> Those sales did not hold up with his teen titans run in the new 52


Because that book wasn't any good, and most of the characters had a lot of the pre flashpoint history and personality removes/changed, which turned fans of the pre crisis series away.

Dick had the "advantage" that his Nightwing Setting had been allready nuked 5 year before flashpoint,  and that his incarnation of Titans didn't had a good series since the late 90s. He the two year Batman run he had just before Flashpoint stayed anyway in continuity. Which made it less jarring when he lost most of his pre flashpoint history.

Jason had anyway not much to lose and Damian survived Flashpoint pretty much unchanged.

----------


## CPSparkles

> The final issue of Red Robin sold 26K. That was higher than some series they keep going in the new 52 (like Birds of Prey, Green Arrow, Superboy and Supergirl).


RR was pre flash point
Do you know how many years ago that was?
Dietrich is totally right. DC has given Tim more chances than the rese. New 52 Tt, Olympic gymnast Tim, Tim as batman beyond, Tim and co as the face of Wonder comics Bendis YJ, All failed and yet look who os back being carried by the Robin identity. Rim.

These days Robin carries Tim and Tim adds nothing to Robin.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Because that book wasn't any good, and most of the characters had a lot of the pre flashpoint history and personality removes/changed, which turned fans of the pre crisis series away.
> 
> Dick had the "advantage" that his Nightwing Setting had been allready nuked 5 year before flashpoint,  and that his incarnation of Titans didn't had a good series since the late 90s. He the two year Batman run he had just before Flashpoint stayed anyway in continuity. Which made it less jarring when he lost most of his pre flashpoint history.
> 
> Jason had anyway not much to lose and Damian survived Flashpoint pretty much unchanged.


You don't know why the sales were how they were. Give me objective proof?

----------


## CPSparkles

> In all fairness, that was a pretty bad book.


What excuses did his Batman beyond and YJ book have then? Stop blaming the books.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Post 52, pre new 52 he was fine, post 52 he kept being shifted all over the place from Lodbell to whom ever too the title up after.  Pre he was fine, and it made sense post, we had the screw up with the 5 years, and the same for Damian because we lost all the traction with Dick, since how did that even work in the time line. 
> 
> 
> 
> Comics sure, pre 52 sure other media, no. Even his BTAS self is Jason light. Tim as Tim has only had the YJ show and thats again Dicks thing, so to non comic readers Tim hasn't been given a fair shake. Damian has what 4 movies under his belt?
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't say Jason fans weren't ticked, but it was a different sort as there was space between Jason being Dead and Tim coming in. There wasn't breathing room for Tim to Damian in the same way.
> ...


[/QUOTE]

That's bs.

Outside media Tim had
2 Arkham Games
multiple lego Games
The Unlimited internet series
The unlimited movie series
BTAS which is always on repeat
The lego movies
2 seasons of YJ

[not counting his d2v movies]

Damian had
Injustice
Son of Batman
BVR
2 Tt movies and JL AW
the unlimited movies
acouple of lego movies
Batman/Turtles movie

Post 52 Damian was exiled from the bat books and Duke was the new sidekick. Post 52 Tim had TT, BB, BRE, Tec, another TT, YJ.

That is not enough? That is more than 90% of the bat family got. Goodness sake.

Tim hasn't been neglected. Not even close. How you can claim that a character that had ALL I listed above was neglected is beyond me.

Comics and outside media Tim has been very very very well represented.

People are arguing that Tim be retired  not many are arguing that jason be retired since he has a niche. Tim is just the surplus Robin sadly.

Every writer since Morrison has introduced new character and new sidekicks. Damian has only been saved because he is popular. The 2nd he stops being popular then he'll get replaced [I mean some behind the scenes have been trying to replace him despite his popularity with less popular characters].

----------


## CPSparkles

> Not really, I mean she had a normal family, but she never did the "Peter Parker" thing.
> 
> That's something every Robin can.
> 
>  after he lost his Robin solo that was still doing OK after more than 180 issues.
> 
>  But they also erased completly the history of Tim's incarnation of the Team. DC was basically just continuing with the Teen Titans line up the had before Flashpoint, while completely erasing the history of all incarnations of the team.
> 
> No he had pointless side plot along side Jason in the first half of the series, and was mostly used as jobber after wards. The actual leads were Dick, Harper and Cass.
> ...


That's a lot of words to not actually make one point that countered Dietrich's arguments.

Aahz what skills did Damian and Jason take from Tim?

----------


## Aahz

> Aahz what skills did Damian and Jason take from Tim?


The whole Idea of tking skills is imo kind of dumb, since they all kind of need the same skill set it is simply a requirement to be robin to be a:
- detective
- gymnast
- martial artist
- hacker
- team leader
- ...

----------


## Aahz

> What excuses did his Batman beyond and YJ book have then? Stop blaming the books.


Batman Beyond Tim was about as recognizable as Tim as Batman "Ian Wayne" was as Damian.

----------


## Aahz

> Outside media Tim had
> 2 Arkham Games
> multiple lego Games
> The Unlimited internet series
> The unlimited movie series
> BTAS which is always on repeat
> The lego movies
> 2 seasons of YJ
> 
> ...


There is kind of difference between being frequently background character and being the main character in several movies.

The only version of Tim that really got any story focus in outside media is the old BTAS version, and that version was basically Jason with Tim's name.

----------


## Rac7d*

> The whole Idea of tking skills is imo kind of dumb, since they all kind of need the same skill set it is simply a requirement to be robin to be a:
> - detective
> - gymnast
> - martial artist
> - hacker
> - team leader
> - ...


They don’t all need to have the same skills, in fact they don’t. Their not clones .

----------


## adrikito

> Yara isn't only considered Wonder Girl in the present. She currently has a solo (which Cassie never has).


Poor Cassie.

They are really pushing Yara for her Wonderwoman role in Future State.




> That's true. They could try to justify that another character makes "more sense", but they just don't want their favorite character to be gay or bi.


Happy that the other person in that discussion understood it. Trying to say that he did not hated Gay people(while he was choosing others) made that Tim fan only ruining himself even more(in the other fan eyes) pointing others and not shutting up and leaving the conversation.

----------


## CPSparkles

> The whole Idea of tking skills is imo kind of dumb, since they all kind of need the same skill set it is simply a requirement to be robin to be a:
> - detective
> - gymnast
> - martial artist
> - hacker
> - team leader
> - ...


so none.

It's good to hear someone who likes Tim more than me admit that.

Also All those skill originate from Dick and Babs so if anyone was stolen from it's those two not Tim

----------


## Aahz

> They dont all need to have the same skills, in fact they dont.


To a degree they have, since they are all fight crime in a similar way.

I think that overall personality, history, support cast ... are more important than skills, at least for their solo books or their team books outside of the Batman franchise (Titans, Young Justice, Outlaws ...). The differnces in skills are only really important when it comes to team ups and even than it doesn't really matter that much.
Unless the writer wants to really hammer that one of them is way more awesom than the rest, but that's imo not particularly way of writing them in the first place.

----------


## CPSparkles

> There is kind of difference between being frequently background character and being the main character in several movies.
> 
> The only version of Tim that really got any story focus in outside media is the old BTAS version, and that version was basically Jason with Tim's name.


What are you talking about? The unlimited Tim got focus, Arkham Tim got focus, Lego tim got focus when there are multiple games where fans can play as tim that isn't a back ground character and those games have a far greater audience than the movies with Damian just looking at the numbers they sell.


My interest in Tim might have declined but I know how many times i've played him in the lego games not to mention the Arkham games.

the problem seems to be that of forgetfulness fans of the character seem top forget the things his been in.

A movie that you watch once doesn't compare to a game that takes time to complete. Tim has been in media that requires the user to engage repeatedly so nope he hasn't been neglected in outside media

----------


## CPSparkles

It seems to me that some fans have ridiculous expectations for Tim.

Tim isn't Robin. he isn't Nightwing, Harley, Batgirl or joker.

It isn't the 90's when the batfamily had less people.
To expect Tim to enjoy the prominence he once enjoyed is ridiculous.

Tim has never been out of publication, he has never been shelved. Infact DC has keep out long standing favourites to favour Tim so lets stop acting like he gets screwed or has been maltreated he hasn't.

Dc has made some poor choices with tim but DC has made poor choices with every character even characters that are bigger than Tim. it happens

----------


## CPSparkles

> Batman Beyond Tim was about as recognizable as Tim as Batman "Ian Wayne" was as Damian.


In your opinion. There are threads on this very site where longtime Tim fans express views that are contrary to yours.

Rebirth YJ was also praised as the return of the real Tim alongside 3 other 90's fan favs. neither set the charts on fire.

----------


## Aahz

> Also All those skill originate from Dick and Babs so if anyone was stolen from it's those two not Tim


I would claim they originated with Bruce.

Btw. I'm not even sure Barbara was even the first Bat Character who did computer hacking, even if she is the one who ist most know for it. Tim did it allready quite early in his run. So roughly arround the time Barbara became oracle and way before she got popular in that orle and they labled her "as the world greatest hacker ever".

----------


## CPSparkles

> I would claim they originated with Bruce.
> 
> Btw. I'm not even sure Barbara was even the first Bat Character who did computer hacking, even if she is the one who ist most know for it. Tim did it allready quite early in his run. So roughly arround the time Barbara became oracle and way before she got popular in that orle and they labled her "as the world greatest hacker ever".


the point is they didn't come from Tim end of!

----------


## Aahz

> What are you talking about? The unlimited Tim got focus, Arkham Tim got focus, Lego tim got focus when there are multiple games where fans can play as tim that isn't a back ground character and those games have a far greater audience than the movies with Damian just looking at the numbers they sell.


Did he had any charcter developent there?
Did they go in anyway in his character history?
Did his role go in any way beyond being a generic Robin?
Was he in anyway important for the story, or was it even centered on him?

I haven't played the games or seen all the movies, but I'm pretty sure the aswer is No is all cases. And that is not focus imo, that's just him being there.

----------


## Fergus

Fans are forgetful when it comes to tim.

WE can easily track when writers started twisting the keen eager to please kid into a genius detective hacker. 3 things that were not present in his early days.

No Robins took anything from Tim. The other way round is the case.

Bruce saying what he said about Duke in Secret files is acceptable since that doesn't contradict anything that comes before and isn't something he can say about the rest [none of them are meta humans]

Tim's problem isn't anything to do with his skillset.

Bland, Boring, uninteresting, spare, pointless and redundant are words often used to describe Tim. Unskilled isn't a thing associated with tim rather we are constantly told how great he is.

Tim's problem is much more than skills. He needs a hook.
Lets hope his least one gimmick works

----------


## Fergus

> Did he had any charcter developent there?
> Did they go in anyway in his character history?
> Did his role go in any way beyond being a generic Robin?
> Was he in anyway important for the story, or was it even centered on him?
> 
> I haven't played the games or seen all the movies, but I'm pretty sure the aswer is No is all cases. And that is not focus imo, that's just him being there.


Tim IS the generic Robin. That was exactly what he was created to be.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Did he had any charcter developent there?
> Did they go in anyway in his character history?
> Did his role go in any way beyond being a generic Robin?
> Was he in anyway important for the story, or was it even centered on him?
> 
> I haven't played the games or seen all the movies, but I'm pretty sure the aswer is No is all cases. And that is not focus imo, that's just him being there.


Maybe you should check out the material before you start critiquing Tim's use in them.

Tim does do more generic Robin stuff, his relationship with Dick does get some focus in one of the movies

On the lego games he gets quite a lot [missions] to do. 

He plays important roles in some of the lego gotham movies [not the lead of course since that is batman's]
There's a few unlimited shots focused on him

----------


## Eckri

> Tim's problem is much more than skills. He needs a hook.
> Lets hope his least one gimmick works


Dick was the Boy Wonder. That alone is enough. Holy Gimmick Batman.

Jason was the Robin fans killed but returned then the fans love because of him being a villain to the Batfamily when he returned. Remember the time when he stripped Dick and Damian naked and almost exposed them to Gotham? Yep, man Pre-New 52 Jason was a wild ride. Now he's the Red Hood. 

Damian punches his way to the Batfamily. We all know what happened afterwards, and his gimmick is.



If there's one thing Tim did right was that his Robin outfit removed the short shorts.

He was supposed to be one who was normal, no tragic backstory, but just a kid who had a sense of justice in him. 
That's what I took from Tim.

----------


## Aahz

> Tim IS the generic Robin. That was exactly what he was created to be.


Not more than Dick or pre crisis Jason.




> Maybe you should check out the material before you start critiquing Tim's use in them.
> 
> Tim does do more generic Robin stuff, his relationship with Dick does get some focus in one of the movies
> 
> On the lego games he gets quite a lot [missions] to do. 
> 
> He plays important roles in some of the lego gotham movies [not the lead of course since that is batman's]
> There's a few unlimited shots focused on him


I have seen most of the movies (including all that aren't Lego) and im at least roughly awaer of the story of the Arkham Games. Lego Games have not really been on my radar sofar.

In can't think of any where he really got character develpoment or was important to the story.

----------


## Eckri

> Not more than Dick or pre crisis Jason.


Can't be a generic Robin if you founded the role, Dick's outing as Robin back in the day was...sidekick. Man was the side kick of Batman, you can't be generic Robin if you started the role. He was the first, the student, the boy who solved all those riddles from the Riddler, and the reason why there are gay Batman and Robin jokes.

Man he was kicked out of being Robin just because he was shot by the joker, in the arm. Got pissed off at Bruce and confronted him about it when he learned of Jason. 

Jason on the other hand, yeah he came out short which led to his death by the fans. 

Which sets the stage for Tim Drake to enter, Bruce was a grieving over Jason's death, begged Nightwing to come back, reluctantly he did but not as Robin. Then Tim Drake entered, got his iconic Robin outfit, and became the new side kick of Batman. Until he made the Robin name more of an independent hero. Can't take that away from Tim, he made the Robin name somewhat independent rather than sidekick. 

Anyway, can we stop talking about Tim? 

The upcoming Robin issue 5 is almost here, and I'm pretty sure we all don't this thread to be talking about Tim when the latest issue comes up.

----------


## Light of Justice

> The whole Idea of tking skills is imo kind of dumb, since they all kind of need the same skill set it is simply a requirement to be robin to be a:
> - detective
> - gymnast
> - martial artist
> - hacker
> - team leader
> - ...


Those are skills that came from Batman's training. So yeah all Robins and Batkids mostly have all of it. But skills that came from character's origin are something that can't be shared. No Robin should claim that they are better in acrobat than Dick. No Robin should claim that they are better at swordfighting or assassin technique than Damian. No other Batkids should claim that they are better at body language than Cass. Even Jason can be said that he is most familiar with guns because of his past as Gotham street child. Those are skills that was latched to them since childhood before Batman entered the picture and made each Batkids unique from each other. 

That's why origin is important, but I don't know why every Tim adaptation always screwed his origin

----------


## adrikito

> The upcoming Robin issue 5 is almost here, and I'm pretty sure we all don't this thread to be talking about Tim when the latest issue comes up.


Or maybe we will be talking about Tim too. All the ROBINS will be here tomorrow. The 5 Robins in ROBIN 5.  :Stick Out Tongue: 

JUST Joking. Is Damian comic.. We should focus in him.  :Wink:

----------


## adrikito

New GLEB image posted 1 hour ago.

Robin 2021 Damian Wayne Rose Willson.jpg

----------


## Darkspellmaster

> New GLEB image posted 1 hour ago.
> 
> Robin 2021 Damian Wayne Rose Willson.jpg


It's pretty but I got some questions....

1. Clearly we're setting up for a Ravager fight against, shoot what's his name, the guy that killed her, him, so is she going to be the one talking in the box thus why they have it close to her? 

2. Is that supposed to Be Flatline holding the heart? Why not show all of her or is it just the heart ripping that is significant? 

3. Shadow Conner Hawk, why? Unless he's hiding something (Turns out dude is a monk and he's actually trying to stop it and threw Damian off to save him under Ra's orders or something like that). 

4. Who is the guy facing Rose and looking at the reader? It's not flatline, but it doesn't quiet look like Damian. 

5. Damian channeling some extra Gendo Ikari with the hands there, what exactly is he looking at?

----------


## adrikito

> It's pretty but I got some questions....


1. Respawn. Yes he killed her.

2. Watching the gauntlets and jacket is should be her. Maybe the illustrator added her in the last moment.

3. Make his face like that made the illustrator end more easily.

4. XXL or something like this. That boy that Rose described as someone more arrogant than Damian.

5. Who knows? But watching this.. I think that is one Scene with someone talking about this tournament fighters and they appeared like this.

----------


## Morgoth

Damn, that Damian and Dick scene in latest issue... Just wow.

----------


## Lal

> Damn, that Damian and Dick scene in latest issue... Just wow.


I agree. It was beautiful.

----------


## Fergus

Jeez I forgot it was out

----------


## Fergus

> New GLEB image posted 1 hour ago.
> 
> Robin 2021 Damian Wayne Rose Willson.jpg


This is beautiful

----------


## Fergus

> Dick was the Boy Wonder. That alone is enough. Holy Gimmick Batman.
> 
> Jason was the Robin fans killed but returned then the fans love because of him being a villain to the Batfamily when he returned. Remember the time when he stripped Dick and Damian naked and almost exposed them to Gotham? Yep, man Pre-New 52 Jason was a wild ride. Now he's the Red Hood. 
> 
> Damian punches his way to the Batfamily. We all know what happened afterwards, and his gimmick is.
> 
> 
> 
> If there's one thing Tim did right was that his Robin outfit removed the short shorts.
> ...


The Robin suit that removed the leotards was Dick's for the Burton movies that was handed down to Tim.

Yeah tim was designed to be the perfect insert for the audience. He was the everyman and was supposed to be the most relatable back when most relatable meant middle class white boy from the burbs

----------


## Fergus

> Those are skills that came from Batman's training. So yeah all Robins and Batkids mostly have all of it. But skills that came from character's origin are something that can't be shared. No Robin should claim that they are better in acrobat than Dick. No Robin should claim that they are better at swordfighting or assassin technique than Damian. No other Batkids should claim that they are better at body language than Cass. Even Jason can be said that he is most familiar with guns because of his past as Gotham street child. Those are skills that was latched to them since childhood before Batman entered the picture and made each Batkids unique from each other. 
> 
> That's why origin is important, but I don't know why every Tim adaptation always screwed his origin


because his origin isn't very good.
Barging into a grieving home and making demands
Alfred and Dick convincing Bruce that the best thing to do after losing one kid is to endanger another
A random kid being charged with Bruce's mental well being 

There so much bad in Tim's origin it's no wonder DC tried to retcon it with the new 52

----------


## Eckri

Called it. Bloody called it.

*spoilers:*
It wasn't a twin baton, but still a baton. Wonder how Damian's going to use that Baton.
*end of spoilers* 

Wholesome, the bit with Dick was wholesome

----------


## adrikito

Great issue..

*spoilers:*
I liked see Damian praising the Ex-Robins companions in his conversation with Jason
*end of spoilers*

As I was expecting the reunion with Dick was Great.


2 YEARS since Alfred died in comics.. I heard it 4 days ago..   :Frown:

----------


## Eckri

Aight for this issue gotta say 

*spoilers:*
 The Dick-Damian was wholesome to the core, while there was a missed opportunity for Damian to have some interactions with Jason, Tim, and Step. Focusing on Dick and having the message of finding your and having faith, man wholesome. Besides Damian's sword he's got the Alfred-Dick Baton, now Damian's going to use that baton to break someone's neck, probably Ravager considering issue 7 is the Flatine v Robin. or the Alfred-Dick Baton is going to break Connor's neck, or his brainwashing.

Since this wasn't the all out fight but a rooftop chase, it's safe to say that issue 7 with Damian and Flatline will be a bait.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Perfidiously

> Aight for this issue gotta say 
> 
> *spoilers:*
>  The Dick-Damian was wholesome to the core, while there was a missed opportunity for Damian to have some interactions with Jason, Tim, and Step. Focusing on Dick and having the message of finding your and having faith, man wholesome. Besides Damian's sword he's got the Alfred-Dick Baton, now Damian's going to use that baton to break someone's neck, probably Ravager considering issue 7 is the Flatine v Robin. or the Alfred-Dick Baton is going to break Connor's neck, or his brainwashing.
> 
> Since this wasn't the all out fight but a rooftop chase, it's safe to say that issue 7 with Damian and Flatline will be a bait.
> *end of spoilers*


I agree with this!

*spoilers:*
 Dick and Damian had a cute moment, but I also wish he'd had more interaction with the others as well. That being said, his and Jason's moment was great. I started off wishing that they'd, like, acknowledge the vicious falling out Damian and Jason had, but the hug to electrocution was A+ gold, loved it
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Light of Justice

Some personal question of mine :

*spoilers:*
1. What happened to Damian and Jason's height differences?
2. I thought Jason is the one who slit Tim's throat? Damian just threw him from the top of the dinosaur?
3. Why is Gleb's art so good? Like those eyes, damn
4. So Tim still yet to tell the fam about his sexuality? 
5. More Jason/Rose ship hint?
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Light of Justice

> because his origin isn't very good.
> Barging into a grieving home and making demands
> Alfred and Dick convincing Bruce that the best thing to do after losing one kid is to endanger another
> A random kid being charged with Bruce's mental well being 
> 
> There so much bad in Tim's origin it's no wonder DC tried to retcon it with the new 52


I mean about his photography skill and the fact that he was tightly observant to know about Batman and Robin's identity (kinda made the rest of Gotham look gullible but to be fair Gotham citizens are indeed gullible). Damian kept his art, Jason kept his literature intelligence (sometimes), but not many writers touch his photography skill

----------


## adrikito

> Aight for this issue gotta say 
> 
> *spoilers:*
>  The Dick-Damian was wholesome to the core, while there was a missed opportunity for Damian to have some interactions with Jason, Tim, and Step. Focusing on Dick and having the message of finding your and having faith, man wholesome. Besides Damian's sword he's got the Alfred-Dick Baton, now Damian's going to use that baton to break someone's neck, probably Ravager considering issue 7 is the Flatine v Robin. or the Alfred-Dick Baton is going to break Connor's neck, or his brainwashing.
> 
> Since this wasn't the all out fight but a rooftop chase, it's safe to say that issue 7 with Damian and Flatline will be a bait.
> *end of spoilers*


Or maybe Respawn... He is the first that attacked Damian in this issue and is interested in Damian too.

A bait?? What about Robin annual?

Anyway. Each person has one opinion about Ship him.. I only want to see how he would react to have a Girlfriend. After this FOR NOW I do not care too much if he is shipped again or not.

----------


## adrikito

> Some personal question of mine :
> 
> *spoilers:*
> 1. What happened to Damian and Jason's height differences?
> 2. I thought Jason is the one who slit Tim's throat? Damian just threw him from the top of the dinosaur?
> 3. Why is Gleb's art so good? Like those eyes, damn
> 4. So Tim still yet to tell the fam about his sexuality? 
> 5. More Jason/Rose ship hint?
> *end of spoilers*


I was thinking in the 1st too... But Damian is under Jason Chin and above Dick chin.. Jason is still the biggest one.


and I would like the 5th happening. I think that Dceased of Future State was shipping them


Agree with the 3rd option.

----------


## Fergus

> I mean about his photography skill and the fact that he was tightly observant to know about Batman and Robin's identity (kinda made the rest of Gotham look gullible but to be fair Gotham citizens are indeed gullible). Damian kept his art, Jason kept his literature intelligence (sometimes), but not many writers touch his photography skill


Writers don't touch Tim's photography because the whole stalking B&R and taking pics is not canon.

in canon Tim was into skate boards and D and d. Those were the hobbies I recall. Photography not so much

----------


## sifighter

So I’m going to reign in my expectations and probably guess that the birthday comment was about his 14th and not that Damian is 15. Because Dick was....unavailable at the time (and that’s the official story).

----------


## adrikito

Someone thinks that ROBIN ANNUAL is giving us a Clue about RESPAWN??

*TOXIC PARENTS* and we have one Deathstroke Copy... Rose Ex-husband(slade agents) is alive? Slade has ANOTHER son? One Young Slade Clone? I think that it can´t be again another Damian Clone. This character seems another Slade fan like Grant.


Robin 2021 Respawn Rose ravager theory.jpg

----------


## Arsenal

> Aight for this issue gotta say 
> 
> *spoilers:*
>  *The Dick-Damian was wholesome to the core, while there was a missed opportunity for Damian to have some interactions with Jason, Tim, and Step*. Focusing on Dick and having the message of finding your and having faith, man wholesome. Besides Damian's sword he's got the Alfred-Dick Baton, now Damian's going to use that baton to break someone's neck, probably Ravager considering issue 7 is the Flatine v Robin. or the Alfred-Dick Baton is going to break Connor's neck, or his brainwashing.
> 
> Since this wasn't the all out fight but a rooftop chase, it's safe to say that issue 7 with Damian and Flatline will be a bait.
> *end of spoilers*


Yeah I completely agree
*spoilers:*
 I honestly wish it was just Jason and Dick who went after Damian opposed to all 4 since Tim & Steph were just kind of... there
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Restingvoice

> So I’m going to reign in my expectations and probably guess that the birthday comment was about his 14th and not that Damian is 15. Because Dick was....unavailable at the time (and that’s the official story).


Yeah it's the 14th. Damian said he's a few days late. 

Anyway since they were tracking him down, seems he had his birthday after he started running away (I don't remember if Talia said anything about it)




> Some personal question of mine :
> 
> *spoilers:*
> 1. What happened to Damian and Jason's height differences?
> 2. I thought Jason is the one who slit Tim's throat? Damian just threw him from the top of the dinosaur?
> 3. Why is Gleb's art so good? Like those eyes, damn
> 4. So Tim still yet to tell the fam about his sexuality? 
> 5. More Jason/Rose ship hint?
> *end of spoilers*


This may happen after Tim and Steph broke up but before he figured it out.

----------


## CPSparkles

I really enjoyed Robin 5. Dick's gift was heart-warming. I miss those two [Dick and Damian] Agree with those who commented that we didn't need all the Robins in this issue.

Dick and Damian was emotional and Damian and Jason made me smile. Tim and Steph I could have done without although the bit about throwing a computer at Tim was funny.

This series just keeps getting better and better.

----------


## ZuLuLu

Just a really good issue, loved the moment between Dick and Damian 




> Someone thinks that ROBIN ANNUAL is giving us a Clue about RESPAWN??
> 
> *TOXIC PARENTS* and we have one Deathstroke Copy... Rose Ex-husband(slade agents) is alive? Slade has ANOTHER son? One Young Slade Clone? I think that it can´t be again another Damian Clone. This character seems another Slade fan like Grant


Respawn could be a clone of Grant ?

----------


## CPSparkles

> Just a really good issue, loved the moment between Dick and Damian 
> 
> 
> 
> Respawn could be a clone of Grant ?


Grant is still around yes. I recall last seeing him at Slades funeral.

If ReSpawn is a clone then I wonder who cloned him and for what purpose.

----------


## adrikito

> Respawn could be a clone of Grant ?


Maybe. I do not see it unlikely or... Maybe Rose has A TWIN..

TOXIC PARENTS(Maybe is not talking only about Slade). Like if her mother was toxic too.

----------


## adrikito

Roger Cruz again. So this should belong to ROBIN ANNUAL:

Robin 2021 Damian Wayne Fight Pose.jpg

----------


## dietrich

> Roger Cruz again. So this should belong to ROBIN ANNUAL:
> 
> Robin 2021 Damian Wayne Fight Pose.jpg


That's cool

----------


## Rac7d*

> Roger Cruz again. So this should belong to ROBIN ANNUAL:
> 
> Robin 2021 Damian Wayne Fight Pose.jpg


Give this kid an anime

----------


## adrikito

> Give this kid an anime


I am so used to this current Robin costume that I would like to see it animated.

----------


## Shen

> Anyway since they were tracking him down, seems he had his birthday after he started running away *(I don't remember if Talia said anything about it)*


Well, considering his birthday gift for the first 10 years of his life was to challenge and defeat his mother in single combat - maybe Talia letting him find out about the tournament was her idea of a gift?

----------


## Shen

Also, loved it! Especially when Damian was throwing shade at all the previous Robins XD 

Overall, it was pretty good. My only grievance is that it'll take *ONE WHOLE MONTH* for the next issue.

----------


## Blue22

Nice piece of Super Sons fanart based on Taylor's upcoming fantasy AU


https://twitter.com/floatinghanmi/st...612097/photo/1




> Also, loved it! Especially when Damian was throwing shade at all the previous Robins XD 
> 
> Overall, it was pretty good. My only grievance is that it'll take *ONE WHOLE MONTH* for the next issue.


Right?! It's always so painful finishing an issue of this series and remembering you won't find out what happens next for an entire month!

----------


## Digifiend

> There was an alternate earth where the gimmick was gender reverse, Damian was a girl and was in a team with female Klarion. 
> Thinking of it, yeah Damian and Klarion team-up adventures in the main universe, yeah I dig that, like Stephanie and Klarion in the old Batgirl run.


That's the Very Merry Multiverse one-shot issue last year. It was the debut of Kid Quick, aka the Future State Flash, and yeah, the Super Daughters and a girl Klarion were on a Teen Titans style team called Teen Justice with them. The other two team members were a female version of Jackson Hyde Aqualad, and a male version of Donna Troy.

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/DC%27s_Ve...iverse_Vol_1_1




> I see.
> 
> Between 2 ROBINS and 2 SUPERBOYS I hope that DC learned a lesson a don´t create a 2ND Wondergirl too.. I think that TIM GENERATION is cursed somehow.


Too late, lol. Yara Flor and Cassie Sandsmark are now sharing the Wonder Girl name. They should meet soon too, as Cassie IS in Yara's book.




> I was thinking more in for example one Wonderwoman "daughter"(like the Supersons case) that would be bad for Cassie but... It seems that DC made it without give one daughter to Diana. Tim generation is not really lucky these days.


Well, it makes sense not to give Diana a daughter, as getting pregnant would put her out of action for a while.




> Yara isn't only considered Wonder Girl in the present. She currently has a solo (which Cassie never has).


She has had a mini-series, back in 2007.

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Wonder_Girl_Vol_1




> The Robin suit that removed the leotards was Dick's for the Burton movies that was handed down to Tim.


Nope. You forgot, Robin didn't appear until the third movie. Tim debuted the same year as the first movie was released.

----------


## adrikito

> Well, it makes sense not to give Diana a daughter, as getting pregnant would put her out of action for a while.


You are right in that but.. The could always give to that Daughter Wonderwoman Original Origin. *The Clay Girl*.

Anyway watching the people who hates the Zeus Origin unless her daughter was a GREAT CHARACTER the people would hate it a lot.

----------


## Morgoth

Williamson is writing Batman, and judging by teaser in twitter, Damian will be a part of it, or he's launching Batman and Robin.

----------


## garazza

You know, I might actually start picking up Batman if Williamson is the new writer.

----------


## Blue22

> Williamson is writing Batman, and judging by teaser in twitter, Damian will be a part of it, or he's launching Batman and Robin.




Be still. My fucking. Heart! 

This is AMAZING news! Williamson has seriously won me over with his Robin. Even if he hadn't been planning on using Damian for this book I would still be over the fucking moon right now!

----------


## Morgoth

I guess we can be sure that Damian leaves Gotham with Bruce. So, Tim is going to be Robin in Gotham, Damian will be Robin alongside Bruce worldwide.

----------


## dietrich

> Nope. You forgot, Robin didn't appear until the third movie. Tim debuted the same year as the first movie was released.


That's incorrect.
The Robin suit that Tim debuted in was created for Dick Grayson by Neal Adam commissioned by WB for the FIRST Burton film which had a role for Robin [Burton lobbyied really hard to get Robin removed because he detested the character]

WB had gone to DC to ask that they create a new suit but they refused. Planning on Tin [the new Robin debuting in the classic leotards]

The book Titans companion 2 details the whole process and how DC eventually acquired the redesigned suit for Tim.

Neal Adams even in recent interviews refuses to acknowledge Dead Robins and Replacement Robins and still call the suit his greatest gift to dick Grayson.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Be still. My fucking. Heart! 
> 
> This is AMAZING news! Williamson has seriously won me over with his Robin. Even if he hadn't been planning on using Damian for this book I would still be over the fucking moon right now!


Williamson has done a pretty good job with the Bat Family as a whole, from what I've seen. I'll certainly give the main series a shot with him at the helm.

----------


## adrikito

> Williamson is writing Batman, and judging by teaser in twitter, Damian will be a part of it, or he's launching Batman and Robin.


WHAAAT? Really... NOOOO. So ROBIN will end soon.


WAIT?? It would not benefit TIM more who is sill called ROBIN?? Damian comic is good for now.

----------


## Blue22

> WHAAAT? Really... NOOOO. So ROBIN will end soon.


I mean...not necessarily. It's very possible for Damian to work with Bruce and still go off and do things on his own. The same way Bruce has always done his own thing while still being a part of the Justice League.

Williamson has said he had plans for Damian and this book once this arc is over so I'm gonna hold him to that. I wanna see Colin and Maya again.

----------


## garazza

Robin and Batman have been published concurrently.

----------


## adrikito

> Williamson is writing Batman


This means that he and NOT BENDIS will replace Tynion?




> I mean...not necessarily. It's very possible for Damian to work with Bruce and still go off and do things on his own. The same way Bruce has always done his own thing while still being a part of the Justice League.
> 
> Williamson has said he had plans for Damian and this book once this arc is over so I'm gonna hold him to that. I wanna see Colin and Maya again.


I hope that is the case.. I want to continue watching Damian in solitary without one Batman... If DICK was BATMAN I would renounce to the comic as long as Damian keeps the costume...

Anyway. While Damian has his comic I do not care if that comic is *Future State Batman with his Robin* or *Bruce with Tim*

Robin 5 Damian Wayne Dick Grayson Nightwing.jpg

----------


## dietrich

> Robin 5 Damian Wayne Dick Grayson Nightwing.jpg


My Dynamic duo

----------


## Morgoth

> WHAAAT? Really... NOOOO. So ROBIN will end soon.


No, Williamson mentioned that he has long-term plans for that book.

----------


## Blue22

> My Dynamic duo


Same. It's like Damian told him, they were the best. Neither Bruce nor Jon can take that from them.

----------


## adrikito

> No, Williamson mentioned that he has long-term plans for that book.


Excellent.




> Same. It's like Damian told him, they were the best. Neither Bruce nor Jon can take that from them.


100% agree with you.

----------


## Iclifton

Hopefully we get more Damian in the main title. I want to see more of Bruce and his dynamic.

----------


## Drako

> My Dynamic duo


Same here. I didn't really like Damian before Batman and Robin by Morrison, but that era changed my mind completely and now he is one of my favorites.

----------


## adrikito

I hope see this soon:

*Robin, Deathstroke Writer Promises the Two Titles Will Collide
*
THANKS ROSE.

https://www-cbr-com.cdn.ampproject.o...KAGwASCAAgM%3D

----------


## Eckri

> *Robin, Deathstroke Writer Promises the Two Titles Will Collide
> *


Feel like Damian has an IOU with Rose, that's why he's going to team-up with her in the future that'll collide with Slade.

You know, the fact that Talia is in Deathstroke Inc. and the whole mini arc with Deathstroke almost being Damian's father is going to be, yep.

I just hope Damian will be snarky to Slade as he did when he was  almost drowned by him. Feel like he's going to rat out Jason by telling Slade. 

"Oh, your daughter is somewhat interested in my emotional brother. Who by the way slept with my mother which she only did for payback against my father"

----------


## Eckri

> Williamson has said he had plans for Damian and this book once this arc is over so I'm gonna hold him to that. I wanna see Colin and Maya again.


Isn't Maya currently teaming up with Kathy? Man the reunion of those two is going to ride, probably will say why didn't he call her. 

Don't how they'll re-introduce Collins but since they referenced Pre-New 52, they'll say long time no see. 

Maps, though, c'mon Willy she's gotta be in the future issues right? Damian did the whole give gift, and helped her.

----------


## Restingvoice

He seems to imply including Damian in Batman so I wonder how he's gonna handle writing both books at the same time. Will it be like early 90s Batman and Detective back and forth? Part 1 in Batman, Part 2 in Robin, Part 3 in Batman...

----------


## CPSparkles

> Williamson is writing Batman, and judging by teaser in twitter, Damian will be a part of it, or he's launching Batman and Robin.


He's allowed to use Damian ? So that means that Tynion was also allowed to use him but decided against it. 

Looking forward to some Bruce and Damian

----------


## Harryrun

> He's allowed to use Damian ? So that means that Tynion was also allowed to use him but decided against it. 
> 
> Looking forward to some Bruce and Damian


From what he implied they gave him free rein but he'll follow the plot line set by the Bat-books editors for a while but he'll do it his own way.

----------


## CPSparkles

> From what he implied they gave him free rein but he'll follow the plot line set by the Bat-books editors for a while but he'll do it his own way.


I hope that also means that the interactions and board use of bat fam characters will continue. Like the backups featuring a different member of the family.

I liked that a lot.

----------


## adrikito

> Feel like Damian has an IOU with Rose, that's why he's going to team-up with her in the future that'll collide with Slade.
> 
> You know, the fact that Talia is in Deathstroke Inc. and the whole mini arc with Deathstroke almost being Damian's father is going to be, yep.
> 
> I just hope Damian will be snarky to Slade as he did when he was  almost drowned by him. Feel like he's going to rat out Jason by telling Slade. 
> 
> "Oh, your daughter is somewhat interested in my emotional brother. Who by the way slept with my mother which she only did for payback against my father"


Do you think that this Slade is "His father" will be mentioned again? I thought that this would be forgotten with the pass of years not mentioned again. PRIEST Deathstroke had better things to remember.. 

So Talia really fucked with Jason??

----------


## Fergus

> Do you think that this Slade is "His father" will be mentioned again? What a waste of time. I thought that nobody would mention this again.
> 
> So Talia really fucked with Jason?? I think that I heard it before


Slade isn't Damian Dad and that issue was settled so don't see it ever coming up.

Talia did sleep with Jason and everything is canon but that really means nothing. No writer aside from Winnick ever touched that story so I don't know.

Everything is canon doesn't makes everything canon since it leads to history that contradicts itself.

Damian doesn't like Slade enough to make that type of small talk with him and he doesn't hate himself or his mother enough to bring that up

----------


## Fergus

DC writers need to have a little more respect for Bruce's love interests Talia and Selina should never make moves on his kids

----------


## adrikito

> Slade isn't Damian Dad and that issue was settled so don't see it ever coming up.
> 
> Talia did sleep with Jason and everything is canon but that really means nothing. No writer aside from Winnick ever touched that story so I don't know.
> 
> Everything is canon doesn't makes everything canon since it leads to history that contradicts itself.
> 
> Damian doesn't like Slade enough to make that type of small talk with him and he doesn't hate himself or his mother enough to bring that up


Knowing Talia she saw Jason suffering and allowed it. Slade is one Talia lover and even Bane.

Yes. I do not think that this Jason thing will be mentioned if they met again.

----------


## Fergus

> Knowing Talia she saw Jason suffering and allowed it. Slade is one Talia lover and even Bane.
> 
> Yes. I do not think that this Jason thing will be mentioned if they met again.


Slade was never one of Talia's bed mates until Priest. Gosh in Rebirth Talia went from pretty chaste to having multiple notches on her bed post.

----------


## adrikito

> Slade was never one of Talia's bed mates until Priest. Gosh in Rebirth Talia went from pretty chaste to having multiple notches on her bed post.


lol... Anyway I do not see it surprising knowing that Slade is the Best mercenary in the world and Bane could be Batman Worst enemy if Joker never existed.

They are Ultimate bed mates.. You are not putting her with Randoms.


Batman NEW BATSUIT makes the people think in his BATMAN INC batsuit. So this is not as simple as Batman&Robin again.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Isn't Maya currently teaming up with Kathy? Man the reunion of those two is going to ride, probably will say why didn't he call her. 
> 
> Don't how they'll re-introduce Collins but since they referenced Pre-New 52, they'll say long time no see. 
> 
> Maps, though, c'mon Willy she's gotta be in the future issues right? Damian did the whole give gift, and helped her.


I don’t expect to see any of them again with Tomsai at marvel

----------


## Jackalope89

Er, considering that Talia otherwise acted more as a mother figure to Jason (especially in his walking vegetable time period), its probably best to just sweep that whole Jason/Talia thing into the trash, toss the trash out, and burn it to cinders. For crying out loud, its even "inspired" (I use that VERY loosely here) some fanfic writers to make _Jason_ Damian's bio dad. 

And, while Talia wouldn't take being rejected laying down, and what not, I don't see her shacking up with an assassin for hire whose loyalty is to the highest bidder, or an over-roided luchadore reject.

----------


## Darkspellmaster

> Er, considering that Talia otherwise acted more as a mother figure to Jason (especially in his walking vegetable time period), its probably best to just sweep that whole Jason/Talia thing into the trash, toss the trash out, and burn it to cinders. For crying out loud, its even "inspired" (I use that VERY loosely here) some fanfic writers to make _Jason_ Damian's bio dad. 
> 
> And, while Talia wouldn't take being rejected laying down, and what not, I don't see her shacking up with an assassin for hire whose loyalty is to the highest bidder, or an over-roided luchadore reject.


That is ugh. Also given who Slade slept with in the past, looking at you Terra, its a surprise that she would even want to. Her sister makes more sense.

----------


## adrikito

Apparently CHECKMATE 3 made Damian say something weird..
*
Damian Wayne Says Talia al-Ghul Is in the Bat-Family – But He’s Wrong:*

https://www.cbr.com/batman-talia-al-...in-bat-family/


SO is a bendis comic... Fortunately when I saw Damian design I avoided the comic.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Apparently CHECKMATE 3 made Damian say something weird..
> *
> Damian Wayne Says Talia al-Ghul Is in the Bat-Family – But He’s Wrong:*
> 
> https://www.cbr.com/batman-talia-al-...in-bat-family/
> 
> 
> SO is a bendis comic... Fortunately when I saw Damian design I avoided the comic.


As far as I'm concerned, anything Bendis writes is non-canon (my opinion). Especially when he "writes" Damian.

----------


## Felipe Silveira

> Apparently CHECKMATE 3 made Damian say something weird..
> *
> Damian Wayne Says Talia al-Ghul Is in the Bat-Family  But Hes Wrong:*
> 
> https://www.cbr.com/batman-talia-al-...in-bat-family/
> 
> 
> SO is a bendis comic... Fortunately when I saw Damian design I avoided the comic.


she is the mother
Nightwing by Peter J. Tomasi-015.jpg

----------


## Shen

> As far as I'm concerned, anything Bendis writes is non-canon (my opinion). Especially when he "writes" Damian.


Agreed. I'm not a hateful person - but by the gods, I want to really punch him in the face at times.

----------


## Shen

> she is the mother
> Nightwing by Peter J. Tomasi-015.jpg


This is... wholesome. WTF?!
"Do I look like Selina Kyle to you?" XD just like her son, or is it vice versa?

----------


## adrikito

I see your BENDIS HATE and that is what made me worried about him replacing Tynion.  :Mad:  

That and that I left BOTH.. His Superman and his AC runs.




> she is the mother
> Nightwing by Peter J. Tomasi-015.jpg


So talia is a WHITE WOMAN again.

Anyway is not like is a Surprise I knew that this would happen someday.

----------


## adrikito

Another fanart:

Robin 2021 Damian Wayne Rose Willson Flatline Connor Hawke.jpg

----------


## dietrich

> Apparently CHECKMATE 3 made Damian say something weird..
> *
> Damian Wayne Says Talia al-Ghul Is in the Bat-Family  But Hes Wrong:*
> 
> https://www.cbr.com/batman-talia-al-...in-bat-family/
> 
> 
> SO is a bendis comic... Fortunately when I saw Damian design I avoided the comic.


Talia is Damian's mother and Damian is Batman's kid so yes she is part of the family

----------


## Rac7d*

> Another fanart:
> 
> Robin 2021 Damian Wayne Rose Willson Flatline Connor Hawke.jpg


It’s The crew

----------


## Arctic Cyclist

> Knowing Talia she saw Jason suffering and allowed it. Slade is one Talia lover and even Bane.
> 
> Yes. I do not think that this Jason thing will be mentioned if they met again.


Bane wasn't exactly her lover. It's an interesting story as I know people who used it as a pop culture example in college classes to demonstrate what date rape and abusive relationship look like.

It's a damn near perfect example of date rape, complete with most outside spectators, the readers, missing that Talia had said no multiple times prior to Bane forcing sexual contact and then her acquiescencing to the act. 

Bane of the Demon also has some great examples of Ra's overtly and covertly sexually abusing Talia, which on the whole raises the question of did she and was she capable of consenting to sex with Bruce and Slade.

Remember, O'Neill and Morrison both established in canon that Talia was 18/19 when Damian was conceived and born. She was a teenage girl under pressure from her father to have sex with adult men, and Batman Inc #2 puts that on panel, just as it puts on panel that corrective rape was a punishment Talia was threatened with among others.

It's why Morrison, Snyder, Tynion, and Tomasi all lightly touch on Bruce's own confusion over their relationship as he's aware that she was to an extent coerced into wanting him. Slade is a character that doesn't give a damn over a someone being coerced into sex, for Bruce, it's....

Well. I would say it's an issue with him but then I remember that he thinks Poison Ivy is a victim despite her being a serial rapist, giving all the Robinson Park kids STIs, a murderer, and a person who harvests and sells endangered plants for profit.

Jason was something that Winnick acknowledged almost as soon as it was published was a mistake, OOC, and regretted writing. It also requires readers to understand that Talia was severely damaged from her three day weekend with Nyssa where she was constantly murdered and resurrected until she had had a complete mind break, then was stabbed by her father and bled out in Bruce's arms after being called a disappointment, then was resurrected to learn Bruce had burned Ra's to prevent his returning.

She wasn't in a place to consent to sex with an 18 year old who had been crushing on her since he was 12. 

Tynion and Lobdell did an excellent job in the Red Hood series of eliminating that from canon, and even taking Bruce out of being Talia's motivation for restoring Jason. Jason can fight and kill evil immortals. That's why she took interest in him and had him trained with the All-Caste and the League of Assassins. Does it make Jason a Mary Sue? Yes, but all of the males in the Batfamily are Mary Sues.

----------


## adrikito

OK.

Is not like I care too much about how many lovers she had or not.. I continue disliking Talia a lot.

----------


## adrikito

Pinterest fanart:

Robin 2021 Damian Wayne Flatline.jpg

----------


## Rac7d*

Will Damian be in Harley Quinn season 3

----------


## Fergus

* YEA!!* 

Why are people not talking about this Title?

More people should be talking about Williamson's Robin. It's that good.

So much goodness!.

#5 was another stellar issue. 

Seeing the Robins reunion has me looking forward to Seeley's Upcoming Robins title [did anyone catch Seely's AMA on Reddit earlier this week?] 

Congratulations to Williamson on landing the Batman gig, hope his increased workload wont affect the quality of writing.

*BOO!!*

It's disappointing that this title isn't getting the Press and push that it should. DC has got something great and they aren't doing anything to showcase it. Yet again.

With all the panic about manga stomping western comics, the push to break new market's [the YA] the desperate demand for diversity and representation.

Williamson's Robin is a fun shonen like title with a well known Poc in the lead that's gotten a lot of praise yet Dc isn't shouting about it from the rooftops. They pushed and promoted Tynion's OC like crazy. bendis and his Underwhelming Wonder comics were plastered everywhere.
Future State
The new batman
Son of Kal El
The New Wonder Girl

All of these got major Promos and PR to make sure everyone was aware. All these the Robin series has beaten in reception and returns even though the Robin had such limited reach because Dc hasn't promoted it. 

kudos to Williamson and co for the stellar work and shame on Dc editorial  for yet again sleeping on a gold mine while chasing bronze

----------


## Fergus

> Will Damian be in Harley Quinn season 3


Not sure but I know for facts that Nightwing is in season 3.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Will Damian be in Harley Quinn season 3


I lost any interest I had when they did Kite-Man dirty like that.

----------


## adrikito

> *BOO!!*
> 
> It's disappointing that this title isn't getting the Press and push that it should. DC has got something great and they aren't doing anything to showcase it. Yet again.
> 
> With all the panic about manga stomping western comics, the push to break new market's [the YA] the desperate demand for diversity and representation.
> 
> Williamson's Robin is a fun shonen like title with a well known Poc in the lead that's gotten a lot of praise yet Dc isn't shouting about it from the rooftops. They pushed and promoted Tynion's OC like crazy. bendis and his Underwhelming Wonder comics were plastered everywhere.
> Future State
> The new batman
> ...


*HOW DISSAPPOINTING.*. They are too focused in that stupid Future State that are unable to see this Comic Ultimate Quality.

I am not even reading it anymore.. I saw a little of Gotham but I do not care about that Jace.. and did not tried neither the New WonderGirl after be dissapointed before.. Son of Kal never was one option for me  :EEK!: 


Despite that I like Andy Curry.. Maybe I should continue with Future State Justice League... I forgot about the issue after see the 1st or 2nd issue.

----------


## Eckri

So the kid made a cameo in Fear State Alpha, by the looks of it he heard what went down in Gotham through Rose.

----------


## adrikito

New Sketch from* Roger Cruz*(artist in the Annual) part

It seems that he is running.. for some reason:

Robin 2021 Damian Wayne.jpg

----------


## adrikito

> So the kid made a cameo in Fear State Alpha, by the looks of it he heard what went down in Gotham through Rose.


So... This is his reason to visit Gotham after the Tournament?? Scarecrow??

Batman Fear State Robin Damian Wayne Rose Wilson Ravager.jpg

----------


## Drako

by Jorge Jimenez

----------


## Restingvoice

> by Jorge Jimenez


this is the other side of the Jon pic isn't it

----------


## Drako

> this is the other side of the Jon pic isn't it


Pretty sure it is.

----------


## garazza

Too bad he's not drawing the real Jon. Still an awesome looking Damian. Though in my opinion, these older versions of the characters are entirely unearned and undeserved.

----------


## Eckri

> Pretty sure it is.


Oh yeah, Jon is in college now, if I recall in the second issue of Son of Kal-El.

Makes him and Damian on the same level now, that's a nice scene, Jon's having a trouble with a Thesis then just calls Damian for quick fix. 

Honestly, College Jon is warming up to me, pretty sure they're still friends.

----------


## Blue22

They're still friends, of course. That hadn't changed, even in Bendis' run. Not exactly "on the same level" though since the age gap is still exactly the same. Just flipped.

Wish I could be excited by the thought of seeing Jimenez drawing them together again but....Eh. Jon's still broken. Not even Taylor has turned me around on that. And this is the same guy who changed my mind about Jean Grey.

He's got about one more issue before I just stop caring about the character. If one of my favorite writers can't make me see this current direction for Jon as a good thing then he really might just be a lost cause for me. The book is good but...that still ain't my Jon. That's someone entirely new and entirely uninteresting.

In the meantime, I'm hoping Williamson wasn't bullshitting when he said we'd get Damian's other friends back. Again, I REEEEEEALLY wanna see Maya and Colin return and like...actually matter.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Pretty sure it is.


I was told it would be Jon. That is not Jon. That is like calling Dragon Ball Evolution's Ukog, Goku. That character is basically Noj, not Jon. I demand a revolution!

----------


## Blue22

> I was told it would be Jon. That is not Jon. That is like calling Dragon Ball Evolution's Ukog, Goku. That character is basically Noj, not Jon. I demand a revolution!


Lol DAMN! Not the comparisons to DBE and...what the fuck did those stereotypical high school bullies call him? Geeko? That's just cruel! XD

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> Pretty sure it is.


Man, this is really the best Jon has ever been. The Super Sons are back.

----------


## Blue22

To be fair, they never actually went anywhere...aside from a brief period where he left Jon a letter that went nowhere and will probably never be touched on again XD

----------


## Eckri

> Man, this is really the best Jon has ever been. The Super Sons are back.


You know what, yeah. 

I'm down with Jon and Damian college adventures. 
Damian is more than enough to get into college. 

Two bros at college. Heck even bring back that one girl from Battle for the Cowl. The one that Damian manage to woo with the Batmobile, then died to Killer Croc.

----------


## Blue22

Eh. Even back when the sight of Jon didn't fill me with dread, I hated those two going to school together. That will never not feel forced as hell (especially when they were in the same class, which made zero sense). They're great together but that's the part of their civilian lives that should just be...separate.




> Two bros at college. Heck even bring back that one girl from Battle for the Cowl. The one that Damian manage to woo with the Batmobile, then died to Killer Croc.


Nooooooooooooooooo nononononononono. The less we acknowledge that story, the better. Damian wasn't the only one that it fucked over.

----------


## Jackalope89

> You know what, yeah. 
> 
> I'm down with Jon and Damian college adventures. 
> Damian is more than enough to get into college. 
> 
> Two bros at college. Heck even bring back that one girl from Battle for the Cowl. The one that Damian manage to woo with the Batmobile, then died to Killer Croc.


My opinion of fake Jon aside; Battle for the Cowl only did Dick Grayson any good. Pretty much all other characters were pretty badly butchered in it.

----------


## garazza

> *Eh. Even back when the sight of Jon didn't fill me with dread, I hated those two going to school together. That will never not feel forced as hell. They're great together but that's the part of their civilian lives that should just be...separate.*
> 
> 
> 
> Nooooooooooooooooo nononononononono. The less we acknowledge that story, the better. Damian wasn't the only one that it fucked over.


Ooooooo, we actually disagree on something about our boys. There's something about them going to school together that just works in the exact same way that originally pairing them together just worked. It's something that didn't _need_ to happen, but when they did it, it seemed like a no-brainer. My one issue was that they weren't in the same class given that they were different ages, but if DC hadn't put themselves into a corner by explicitly stated their ages, that wouldn't have happened, but I digress. 

My favorite parts of Tim and Bart's solo books were seeing their schools and friend groups/supporting casts. Having Tim and Bart go to the same school, while convenient for the development of their friendship, would be very unnecessary and actually hinder them because by the very nature of their characters they are their own things and shouldn't be intermingled like that, with Young Justice being the best possible place for them co-exist. Even though Damian was created several years before Jon, their being paired together as the Super Sons elevated both characters to new heights they wouldn't have achieved on their own. A lot of people welcomed Jon into Damian's supporting cast because Damian as a character had grown and developed under the supervision of Tomasi and Gleason to the point he was ready to open himself up and start making new friends. Jon, on the other hand, was a brand new character, but without a solo book to help develop his character like Tim or Bart had, he would eventually become another Chris Kent. Luckily, before his sheen had worn off, he was quickly paired with Damian who would both serve as his civilian friend like Tim and Bart's school friends did and his costumed friend like what Young Justice was to each other. 

Together, Super Sons the book acted as both the Robin and Impluse solo book and Young Justice team book. Damian didn't have a solo at the time but was at the height of his popularity and Jon had a lot going for him but he couldn't stay a Superman supporting character forever. Putting them together was the best possible thing for either character and them going to the same school was the just natural progression of that premise. Tim and Bart were friends, but did they seem like school friends? Not really. Jon and Damian, on the other hand, had such great chemistry that they seemed like they went to school together, but actually weren't, so DC decided to pull the trigger and take that extra step.

----------


## adrikito

> by Jorge Jimenez


AWESOME... Comic?




> Heck even bring back that one girl from Battle for the Cowl. The one that Damian manage to woo with the Batmobile, then died to Killer Croc.


What?? Really? Which issue?




> Nooooooooooooooooo nononononononono. The less we acknowledge that story, the better. Damian wasn't the only one that it fucked over.


I wanted to see that girl but this sounds really bad  :Frown:

----------


## Blue22

> Ooooooo, we actually disagree on something about our boys. There's something about them going to school together that just works in the exact same way that originally pairing them together just worked. It's something that didn't _need_ to happen, but when they did it, it seemed like a no-brainer. My one issue was that they weren't in the same class given that they were different ages, but if DC hadn't put themselves into a corner by explicitly stated their ages, that wouldn't have happened, but I digress. 
> 
> My favorite parts of Tim and Bart's solo books were seeing their schools and friend groups/supporting casts. Having Tim and Bart go to the same school, while convenient for the development of their friendship, would be very unnecessary and actually hinder them because by the very nature of their characters they are their own things and shouldn't be intermingled like that, with Young Justice being the best possible place for them co-exist. Even though Damian was created several years before Jon, their being paired together as the Super Sons elevated both characters to new heights they wouldn't have achieved on their own. A lot of people welcomed Jon into Damian's supporting cast because Damian as a character had grown and developed under the supervision of Tomasi and Gleason to the point he was ready to open himself up and start making new friends. Jon, on the other hand, was a brand new character, but without a solo book to help develop his character like Tim or Bart had, he would eventually become another Chris Kent. Luckily, before his sheen had worn off, he was quickly paired with Damian who would both serve as his civilian friend like Tim and Bart's school friends did and his costumed friend like what Young Justice was to each other. 
> 
> Together, Super Sons the book acted as both the Robin and Impluse solo book and Young Justice team book. Damian didn't have a solo at the time but was at the height of his popularity and Jon had a lot going for him but he couldn't stay a Superman supporting character forever. Putting them together was the best possible thing for either character and them going to the same school was the just natural progression of that premise. Tim and Bart were friends, but did they seem like school friends? Not really. Jon and Damian, on the other hand, had such great chemistry that they seemed like they went to school together, but actually weren't, so DC decided to pull the trigger and take that extra step.


That's a pretty good way of looking at it, but it just didn't click with me. Even by their standards, it felt really silly and contrived. I like the idea of Jon forming a supporting cast in school but I felt like Damian didn't need to be there. In fact, I feel like Damian being there ran the risk of hindering Jon's growth. Especially since, back then, a common complaint about Jon (that I did sort of agree with) was that he was always attached to either Clark or Damian, rather than doing anything on his own (if only I knew the price we'd have to pay for him to have a solo outing). Showing him in school and interacting with teachers and classmates was a great way to start him on the road to gaining his own agency and sense of self but...Damian just shouldn't have been a part of that. At least that's how I felt about it. 

Plus, Damian being in grade school already felt utterly pointless when he's probably more educated than every teacher there. I get that it was also to help him socialize with normal kids his age, but I feel like Bruce should have known that would be a lost cause. Low and behold, it was. Even in the confines of the Super Sons stories, his short stint in school was nothing but a waste of time. There weren't even any hints that it would be anything more than an annoyance for him. He's just not that type of kid. And that's okay. That's how I like my Bat-son lol

----------


## Fergus

> That's a pretty good way of looking at it, but it just didn't click with me. Even by their standards, it felt really silly and contrived. I like the idea of Jon forming a supporting cast in school but I felt like Damian didn't need to be there. In fact, I feel like Damian being there ran the risk of hindering Jon's growth. Especially since, back then, a common complaint about Jon (that I did sort of agree with) was that he was always attached to either Clark or Damian, rather than doing anything on his own (if only I knew the price we'd have to pay for him to have a solo outing). Showing him in school and interacting with teachers and classmates was a great way to start him on the road to gaining his own agency and sense of self but...Damian just shouldn't have been a part of that. At least that's how I felt about it. 
> 
> Plus, Damian being in grade school already felt utterly pointless when he's probably more educated than every teacher there. I get that it was also to help him socialize with normal kids his age, but I feel like Bruce should have known that would be a lost cause. Low and behold, it was. Even in the confines of the Super Sons stories, his short stint in school was nothing but a waste of time. There weren't even any hints that it would be anything more than an annoyance for him. He's just not that type of kid. And that's okay. That's how I like my Bat-son lol


Bruce made it clear that he wasn't enrolling Damian in school to learn the curriculum rather to socialise with other kids and learn social norms

----------


## Fergus

> by Jorge Jimenez


I'm loving the new suit more and more

----------


## Fergus

> Pretty sure it is.


This is awesome.

----------


## adrikito

> I'm loving the new suit more and more


The same happens with me.

I hope see him with this suit during some years.

----------


## dietrich

> The same happens with me.
> 
> I hope see him with this suit during some years.


Me too. I love the new suit. I know the Robin colours are iconic but I've never liked the colour combination

I hope Damian keeps this new suit and tim can keep the iconic colours

----------


## dietrich

> by Jorge Jimenez


I love his Damian

----------


## adrikito

> Me too. I love the new suit. I know the Robin colours are iconic but I've never liked the colour combination
> 
> I hope Damian keeps this new suit and tim can keep the iconic colours


Same. I love this suit too much to want to return to Rebirth or any previous Robin costume.

Tim can keep them.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Same. I love this suit too much to want to return to Rebirth or any previous Robin costume.
> 
> Tim can keep them.


It also has the added benefit of no longer debating which one of them wears the color Green anymore

----------


## Fergus

New Royal mail Robin stamp



The collection features
Batman
Nightwing
Babsgirl
Batwoman
Alfred
Robin Damian and iconic villians such as Catwoman, Joker, Penguin and Harley

----------


## adrikito

> It also has the added benefit of no longer debating which one of them wears the color Green anymore


That too...

Before Robin serie their costumes were.. NOT THE SAME but similar.

That is not the case anymore.

----------


## Restingvoice

Omg more than half of those stamps are Batman characters they have to squeeze Supergirl and Aquaman together

----------


## garazza

> That's a pretty good way of looking at it, but it just didn't click with me. Even by their standards, it felt really silly and contrived. I like the idea of Jon forming a supporting cast in school but I felt like Damian didn't need to be there. In fact, I feel like Damian being there ran the risk of hindering Jon's growth. Especially since, back then, a common complaint about Jon (that I did sort of agree with) was that he was always attached to either Clark or Damian, rather than doing anything on his own (if only I knew the price we'd have to pay for him to have a solo outing). Showing him in school and interacting with teachers and classmates was a great way to start him on the road to gaining his own agency and sense of self but...Damian just shouldn't have been a part of that. At least that's how I felt about it. 
> 
> Plus, Damian being in grade school already felt utterly pointless when he's probably more educated than every teacher there. I get that it was also to help him socialize with normal kids his age, but I feel like Bruce should have known that would be a lost cause. Low and behold, it was. Even in the confines of the Super Sons stories, his short stint in school was nothing but a waste of time. There weren't even any hints that it would be anything more than an annoyance for him. He's just not that type of kid. And that's okay. That's how I like my Bat-son lol


Hey man, perfectly acceptable. I liked the move because it put Damian in a situation he's never been in before and you didn't like it because the situation isn't one that Damian should be put in, and both are equally valid. But we wouldn't have known until they took the initiative to try to something new. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

----------


## Light of Justice

Cartoon Network has greenlit 'Merry Little Batman' (film).

"When a six-year-old Damian Wayne finds himself alone in Wayne Manor, he must transform into Little Batman in order to defend his home and Gotham City from the crooks and super-villains intent on destroying Christmas."

Source : https://twitter.com/thecartooncrave/...06192541392901

I don't know when and why Damian becomes Christmas defender, but I approve it 
(although I bet it will be another 'Damian in name only' case)

----------


## Digifiend

Definitely in-name only. In the comics, Damian hadn't even met Bruce yet at age 6.

He sounds more like Kevin McCallister actually (you know, the 8 year old star of Home Alone).

----------


## Rac7d*

> Cartoon Network has greenlit 'Merry Little Batman' (film).
> 
> "When a six-year-old Damian Wayne finds himself alone in Wayne Manor, he must transform into “Little Batman” in order to defend his home and Gotham City from the crooks and super-villains intent on destroying Christmas."
> 
> Source : https://twitter.com/thecartooncrave/...06192541392901
> 
> I don't know when and why Damian becomes Christmas defender, but I approve it 
> (although I bet it will be another 'Damian in name only' case)


So home alone but with a ninja toddler

----------


## dietrich

Doesn't sound like it's a Damian in name only since the vibe suit's Damian and is pretty much b&R Annual #1

The fact that Damian is 6 doesn't make it Damian in name only since

New 52 Damian was much younger than 6 when he met Bruce and in name only refers to personality not age

----------


## dietrich

> Definitely in-name only. In the comics, Damian hadn't even met Bruce yet at age 6.
> 
> He sounds more like Kevin McCallister actually (you know, the 8 year old star of Home Alone).


That doesn't make it in name only

DCSHG has Damian that's the same age as Dick grayson but that's still very much Damian

----------


## adrikito

oh...  You knew about it... I learned about this in twitter few minutes ago..

A 6 years damian.. Younger than Bruce when his parents were killed.

----------


## Blue22

> Cartoon Network has greenlit 'Merry Little Batman' (film).
> 
> "When a six-year-old Damian Wayne finds himself alone in Wayne Manor, he must transform into “Little Batman” in order to defend his home and Gotham City from the crooks and super-villains intent on destroying Christmas."
> 
> Source : https://twitter.com/thecartooncrave/...06192541392901
> 
> I don't know when and why Damian becomes Christmas defender, but I approve it 
> (although I bet it will be another 'Damian in name only' case)


Well. That is definitely....a choice. Sounds like it could be fun though.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Cartoon Network has greenlit 'Merry Little Batman' (film).
> 
> "When a six-year-old Damian Wayne finds himself alone in Wayne Manor, he must transform into “Little Batman” in order to defend his home and Gotham City from the crooks and super-villains intent on destroying Christmas."
> 
> Source : https://twitter.com/thecartooncrave/...06192541392901
> 
> I don't know when and why Damian becomes Christmas defender, but I approve it 
> (although I bet it will be another 'Damian in name only' case)


It has potential, I'll say that. But I want to see arrogant/little shit Damian. Not "Macaulay Culkin" Damian.

----------


## adrikito

> New 52 Damian was much younger than 6 when he met Bruce and in name only refers to personality not age


What? Really?? How many years Damian has been Damian with Batman?

----------


## Iclifton

I think the target audience for this is young children so him being 6 makes sense to me.

----------


## adrikito

> I think the target audience for this is young children so him being 6 makes sense to me.


Yeah.. To make little kids watch this to obtain future DC fans.

----------


## Blue22

> It has potential, I'll say that. But I want to see arrogant/little shit Damian. Not "Macaulay Culkin" Damian.


Okay so I wasn't the only one getting Home Alone vibes lol

Not gonna lie, that might have immediately won me over on the concept. Watching those movies was one of my favorite Christmas traditions with my dad. God knows I need as many reminders of him as I can get, these days.

So bring on Kevin McCallister Damian XD

----------


## Frontier

> Cartoon Network has greenlit 'Merry Little Batman' (film).
> 
> "When a six-year-old Damian Wayne finds himself alone in Wayne Manor, he must transform into “Little Batman” in order to defend his home and Gotham City from the crooks and super-villains intent on destroying Christmas."
> 
> Source : https://twitter.com/thecartooncrave/...06192541392901
> 
> I don't know when and why Damian becomes Christmas defender, but I approve it 
> (although I bet it will be another 'Damian in name only' case)


Sounds like a Lil' Gotham story.

----------


## garazza

> Sounds like a Lil' Gotham story.


That's what I was thinking.

----------


## Blue22

Throw in an art style like Lil Gotham's and I'm twice as sold.

----------


## Eckri

Different version and interpretation of the kid but it's a fun little thing. 
Wouldn't be the most out of origin Damian we got to see in animated show

Remember the version of Damian from Batman the Brave and the Bold. 

Wasn't the love child of Bruce and Talia but by Bruce and Selina, wasn't raised as an assassin but raised as Bruce and Selina's son, and isn't a prideful brat but really insecure.

He was a prodigy who's insecure about the Batman legacy being shadowed on him.

Best flip version of Damian in my opinion, and that little Easter egg of Bruce Jr. being Damian's son was just fun.

 I mean if we're talking characters aren't true to the comic book parts, like in name only but portrayed isn't. The Teen Titans (2003) Robin was just too gloomy to Dick Grayson.

And we got like multiple versions of the character over the years. 

Kingdom Come (Yes he wasn't Damian but come on it inspired Damian)
The Main universe
Injustice verse
Animated Movie verse 
Lego Batman verse. 

Another fun version for the kids wouldn't hurt.

----------


## Iclifton

> Throw in an art style like Lil Gotham's and I'm twice as sold.


That would be awesome!

----------


## Rac7d*

Is the Christmas movie for this year?

----------


## HsssH

> Doesn't sound like it's a Damian in name only since the vibe suit's Damian and is pretty much b&R Annual #1
> 
> The fact that Damian is 6 doesn't make it Damian in name only since
> 
> New 52 Damian was much younger than 6 when he met Bruce and in name only refers to personality not age


What do you mean younger than 6? From what I recall Batman and Robin #0 did their first meeting and it was same as in Morrison's run, just from Damian's perspective.

----------


## dietrich

> What do you mean younger than 6? From what I recall Batman and Robin #0 did their first meeting and it was same as in Morrison's run, just from Damian's perspective.


I was talking about the new52's compressed time [Damian being fast aged] but now that I think about it my argument doesn't make much sense

----------


## Morgoth

With project like this, I guess at some point they indeed are going to make Super Sons animated movie/series, it's a perfect concept for children audience.

----------


## Drako

> I mean if we're talking characters aren't true to the comic book parts, like in name only but portrayed isn't. The Teen Titans (2003) Robin was just too gloomy to Dick Grayson.


He was exactly like that in Marv Wolfman's The New Teen Titans. He was not out of character.

I would argue that from the main cast, he was the one most in character.

----------


## garazza

> With project like this, I guess at some point they indeed are going to make Super Sons animated movie/series, it's a perfect concept for children audience.


We can only hope. Hopefully this is a good sign to the future, but all good things take time.

----------


## Iclifton

> With project like this, I guess at some point they indeed are going to make Super Sons animated movie/series, it's a perfect concept for children audience.


That would be great! A super son`s animated series would be a dream come true.

----------


## Rac7d*

> With project like this, I guess at some point they indeed are going to make Super Sons animated movie/series, it's a perfect concept for children audience.


Good reception to that film might push Cartoon Network in that direction

----------


## Konja7

> I was talking about the new52's compressed time [Damian being fast aged] but now that I think about it my argument doesn't make much sense


Yeah. They would have a (physically) 6 years Damian as protagonist.

Maybe it isn't a Damian in name, but it's difficult. Damian's personality isn't so kid friendly.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Yeah. They would have a (physically) 6 years Damian as protagonist.
> 
> Maybe it isn't a Damian in name, but it's difficult. Damian's personality isn't so kid friendly.


Its not hard to tone down certain elements but retain the arrogant and know-it-all attitude.

----------


## Rac7d*



----------


## dietrich

> 


so very cute

----------


## dietrich

> With project like this, I guess at some point they indeed are going to make Super Sons animated movie/series, it's a perfect concept for children audience.


According to comicvine there's also an animated Supersons project in the works

----------


## adrikito

Another Sketch

Damian Wayne Robin 2021.jpg

----------


## Blue22

> According to comicvine there's also an animated Supersons project in the works


I heard about that too. Not getting my hopes up yet like all of twitter has but my fingers are definitely crossed.

----------


## dietrich

Damian Funko pop coming Sept 2021 10.99

*Funko DC Comics Imperial Palace Robin Pop! Vinyl Figure*

DC Comics Imperial Palace Robin Pop! Vinyl Figure:

This DC Comics Imperial Palace Robin Pop! Vinyl Figure measures approximately 3 3/4-inches tall. Comes packaged in a window display box.

Surprise! Surprise! This very special item might have limited variants randomly inserted throughout the production run. If extra lucky, you could potentially receive one of these highly sought-after ultra-rare collectibles when you order this item! Please note that we cannot accept requests for specific variants upon ordering, nor can we accept returns of opened items. And the item you receive may be slightly different from the standard edition pictured. Some attached images may include a picture of the prized variant.

In case you didn't know: What is a "chase variant" and why is it so special? Well, variants are slightly different productions made in limited number and inserted into the standard production run. Kind of like a golden ticket, you just never know when you might receive one! These variants are often called chase items because they're the versions that the most enthusiastic collectors are always chasing after to get. When you purchase multiple units, it can increase your chance of landing one of these popular treasures.Ages 3 and up

----------


## dietrich

> Another Sketch
> 
> Damian Wayne Robin 2021.jpg


He is just so good at drawing Damian

----------


## dietrich

> I heard about that too. Not getting my hopes up yet like all of twitter has but my fingers are definitely crossed.


It's yet to be announced I know but his other works for WB animation and DC DTV projects checks out. 

Fingers crossed.

----------


## dietrich

More rumours/supposed leak from marvel/Dc leaker Spideyforever245

https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/...atman-sequels/


https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/...eus-tim-drake/

----------


## adrikito

> More rumours/supposed leak from marvel/Dc leaker Spideyforever245
> 
> https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/...atman-sequels/
> 
> 
> https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/...eus-tim-drake/


Ahhhh. This again... Now I understand it. How bad that Affleck is not Batman anymore. 

Batfleck and Damian would be interesting..

----------


## Rac7d*

Allowing Damian heritage to reflect in his skin tone 
88C6D440-1B70-4BD5-8D4B-964F695359E3.jpg

----------


## Lucas 35

Anyone else hate this skin tone for Damian? He is whiter and more Chinese/Central Asia than Arab, but twitter ignores this, this skin tone seems made by people who want to pretend they are not racist but are very racist

----------


## Blue22

Yeah people tend to forget Damian is mixed as fuck. But I haven't really minded either skin tone they go with for him. Light or dark, I'm good. Neither is that unrealistic.

----------


## Badou

> Allowing Damian heritage to reflect in his skin tone 
> 88C6D440-1B70-4BD5-8D4B-964F695359E3.jpg


What is his heritage? The only one we know for certain is he is half English from his dad's side, but Talia's heritage is never clarified. Sometime she is depicted as white, or as more East Asian, or sometime Middle Eastern.

----------


## Blue22

Okay. Read the first three free chapters. Used the coins that I typically reserve for Urban Animal to buy the next three. This webtoon is fucking brilliant. Pretty much everything you could possibly want out of a slice of life comic featuring the Batfam. I love it!

----------


## Rac7d*

> Yeah people tend to forget Damian is mixed as fuck. But I haven't really minded either skin tone they go with for him. Light or dark, I'm good. Neither is that unrealistic.


Gotham academy had it perfect

----------


## Restingvoice

> What is his heritage? The only one we know for certain is he is half English from his dad's side, but Talia's heritage is never clarified. Sometime she is depicted as white, or as more East Asian, or sometime Middle Eastern.


Ra's is Chinese from his father, his mother is a mystery since he erased his and his culture's history, but his mother's brother was a nomad leader roaming Saudi Arabia
Talia's mother is Arab Chinese

Their depiction varied. Early on, in the Dennis O'Neil and Neal Adams era she looks and dress more Chinese. Recently more dark middle eastern.  Same with Damian. A lot of times they just go with Bruce clone, mainly white, but sometimes they want to depict him more middle eastern, sometimes dark sometimes light. 

Seems like they don't really have a set look that artist have to follow and just let them do what they want. Like when Rebirth began Jim Lee drew him light, Jonboy Meyers dark. Then in the comics he's light, in the cover he's dark. Most of the time he's light, then for one issue he's dark. Back and forth back and forth.

----------


## Daedalus

> Ra's is Chinese from his father, his mother is a mystery since he erased his and his culture's history, but his mother's brother was a nomad leader roaming Saudi Arabia
> Talia's mother is Arab Chinese


Ra's is half-Chinese because his father is the Sensei, the supervillain from Hong Kong. This was a later retcon from the Morrison era, though I assume it's still canon.

But if Melisande is also half-Chinese, I missed this - did we learn anything new about Melisande's past in recent years? Did we get anything else? Melisande is one of those elusive figures we only get nuggets of info ever so often.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Ra's is half-Chinese because his father is the Sensei, the supervillain from Hong Kong. This was a later retcon from the Morrison era, though I assume it's still canon.
> 
> But if Melisande is also half-Chinese, I missed this - did we learn anything new about Melisande's past in recent years? Did we get anything else? Melisande is one of those elusive figures we only get nuggets of info ever so often.


It's in Birth of the Demon

----------


## Daedalus

> It's in Birth of the Demon


Was it? I need to go back and reread it then, really didn't remember that.

----------


## Rac7d*

4FFA5470-9D94-44E7-9EEC-409FD7DD3638.jpg
I preferred this just enough to have me remember he was mixed
But I like web comics choice

----------


## Blue22

Man, forget his constantly changing skin tone. I'm just sitting here being extra happy over all the wonderful Damian content we've been getting. Especially today. 2021 really has been his year.

----------


## adrikito

> Man, forget his constantly changing skin tone. I'm just sitting here being extra happy over all the wonderful Damian content we've been getting*. Especially today.* 2021 really has been his year.


Damian appeared in a comic this week?

----------


## Blue22

> Damian appeared in a comic this week?


The Wayne Family Webtoon.

----------


## adrikito

> The Wayne Family Webtoon.


What is that??

----------


## KrustyKid

> What is that??


https://www.webtoons.com/en/slice-of...?title_no=3180

----------


## adrikito

> https://www.webtoons.com/en/slice-of...?title_no=3180


.... OK?? Is not something canon.. But fine.

THANKS

----------


## Blue22

Oh. Yeah. No way in hell it's canon, but it's part of that DC/Webtoon crossover thing they announced a while back. And, for what it is, it's a ton of fun. I'm all for it.

----------


## John Venus

> Ra's is half-Chinese because his father is the Sensei, the supervillain from Hong Kong. This was a later retcon from the Morrison era, though I assume it's still canon.
> 
> But if Melisande is also half-Chinese, I missed this - did we learn anything new about Melisande's past in recent years? Did we get anything else? Melisande is one of those elusive figures we only get nuggets of info ever so often.





> It's in Birth of the Demon





> Was it? I need to go back and reread it then, really didn't remember that.


Because it's not.  

Talia is explicitly identified as half Chinese and half Arab (so was her mother) in _Birth of the Demon_ but Ras was always left ambiguous. Although nowadays we accept that he is Middle Eastern.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Anyone else hate this skin tone for Damian? He is whiter and more Chinese/Central Asia than Arab, but twitter ignores this, this skin tone seems made by people who want to pretend they are not racist but are very racist


I have no problem with Damian's skin tone, whether white, black, or brown I don't care. But I am kinda annoyed by early comments that say "Damian's skin is brown this is proper Damian!". 

Uhm no. Damian's character is never based on his skin color alone, the most important part is his characterization. That's why he can have numerous ranges of skin color and eyes across multiple comics and we can identify them (not BftC and Teen Titans) as Damian. So long webtoon version hasn't done anything wrong with Damian's characterization (at least they're better than Patrick in Signal comic).

----------


## Blue22

Yeah. Damian's characterization was one of the things that I was most concerned about when I first found out about this. But I ended up being pleasantly surprised. He's just as great in the webtoon as he is all the other stuff that I love. That's another thing I gotta give mad props to the writer for. Yeah this is a more down to earth and comedic take on these characters but everyone still mostly feels like themselves.

----------


## Eckri

Cookie Master.jpg

Pretty much in character so far, yes, as far as fun light hearted comics.

----------


## garazza

Just read the first three episodes of the Webtoon comic. I've seen a million comics like these on Tumblr, but they're good distillations of the characters and are just all-around enjoyable. To me, this is just an officially published fan comic, but that's not a problem.

We got a lot of good Damians, but this is one of my favorites:

----------


## Rac7d*

> Cookie Master.jpg
> 
> Pretty much in character so far, yes, as far as fun light hearted comics.


It makes me excited for his movie

----------


## Jackalope89

The webtoon brought a better Damian than most DC comics have the last couple of years (looking at you, Glass and Bendis!), and its just a light-hearted and fun series.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Just read the first three episodes of the Webtoon comic. I've seen a million comics like these on Tumblr, but they're good distillations of the characters and are just all-around enjoyable. To me, this is just an officially published fan comic, but that's not a problem.
> 
> We got a lot of good Damians, but this is one of my favorites:


Look at our Boy.  This image brings me so much Joy.

I'm not a fan of the Bandaid [too kiddy] but I guess he's a kid and gets into scraps so it makes sense. J

fancomic level yeesh! 


Are these free or do we have to Pay?

And if there's a fee do you think it's good enough to pay for?

----------


## Perfidiously

> Are these free or do we have to Pay?
> 
> And if there's a fee do you think it's good enough to pay for?


The first three episodes are free! There's also another three up that you have to pay for currently, but I think they'll be released for free over the coming weeks.

----------


## CPSparkles

> What is his heritage? The only one we know for certain is he is half English from his dad's side, but Talia's heritage is never clarified. Sometime she is depicted as white, or as more East Asian, or sometime Middle Eastern.


According to his Truth and Justice story, The Al Ghul's originate from the region that is now Turkey. The writer of the comic is Turkish so make of that what you will.

Talia's Mother is Chinese I think.

On my preferred skin tone for Damian. Not as pale as the other Robins and with features that reflect his Ethnicity.

----------


## CPSparkles

> The first three episodes are free! There's also another three up that you have to pay for currently, but I think they'll be released for free over the coming weeks.


Thank you will go check them out.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Damian Funko pop coming Sept 2021 10.99
> 
> *Funko DC Comics Imperial Palace Robin Pop! Vinyl Figure*
> 
> DC Comics Imperial Palace Robin Pop! Vinyl Figure:
> 
> This DC Comics Imperial Palace Robin Pop! Vinyl Figure measures approximately 3 3/4-inches tall. Comes packaged in a window display box.
> 
> Surprise! Surprise! This very special item might have limited variants randomly inserted throughout the production run. If extra lucky, you could potentially receive one of these highly sought-after ultra-rare collectibles when you order this item! Please note that we cannot accept requests for specific variants upon ordering, nor can we accept returns of opened items. And the item you receive may be slightly different from the standard edition pictured. Some attached images may include a picture of the prized variant.
> ...


Finally a Damian Pop. Not too keen on the style of this. I hope we gat a regular Damian Robin pop aside from this special themed series.

Only the Harley from this series looks nice. Batman Looks the worst. Joker and Supes are decent I guess.

----------


## Darkspellmaster

> The first three episodes are free! There's also another three up that you have to pay for currently, but I think they'll be released for free over the coming weeks.


Yeah when the new ones come out you have to pay, but then then the older ones become free when newer issues are put up. So you're back a week or three depending on how they have it set up. Not a big deal.

Now give me a Supersons and a Superman family sort of thing or a YJ webtoon and I'm golden for a bit.

----------


## adrikito

VERSUS THE WORLD fanart:

Damian Wayne Robin 2021 Versus the world.jpg

----------


## Veni

> According to his Truth and Justice story, The Al Ghul's originate from the region that is now Turkey. The writer of the comic is Turkish so make of that what you will.
> 
> Talia's Mother is Chinese I think.
> 
> On my preferred skin tone for Damian. Not as pale as the other Robins and with features that reflect his Ethnicity.


If the Al Ghul's are from Turkey according to Damian's Truth and Justice story, then they aren't Arabs because the Turks are a different ethnic group from central Asia. Central Asians have lighter skin compared to South Asians. Damian having fair skin is accurate.

----------


## Eckri

> If the Al Ghul's are from Turkey according to Damian's Truth and Justice story, then they aren't Arabs because the Turks are a different ethnic group from central Asia. Central Asians have lighter skin compared to South Asians. Damian having fair skin is accurate.


Well since we're talking about some history.

The gods in that issue were Anatolian, specifically Hitties. So if we're going by the theory that the Al Ghuls originate from the Anatolia. Here's my take.

It could be the distance past the Al Ghuls was different in antiquity and classical period before the Arabian conquest in the region, that far into the past they would have seen the Persian, Macedonian, Roman, expansion in the region. 

Where the original Al Ghuls probably took up the Al Ghul to adopt to the customs of that time, and intermarrying with the Arabs at the given time period. Though if the Al Ghuls were in Anatolia it was in the midst of the Ottoman empire and various other kingdoms. And where Ra's gets into the picture being born in 1430 in the Arabian region, and was described as a nomadic person. 

So likely that the Al Ghuls were originally from Anatolia, intermarried with Arabs, and Ra's somewhere was born in the Arabian region who became a nomad and travelled to east via Silk Road. 

That's my take.

----------


## Harryrun

With all due respect to everyone but how can they decide Damian skin color when they are yet to decide is Talia white or a POC.

----------


## Jackalope89

> With all due respect to everyone but how can they decide Damian skin color when they are yet to decide is Talia white or a POC.


Either way, its better than that fake Super Sons series that happened. It had Jon (probably the closest one to being in character), a female OC, and "Ian". Not "Damian", because he "didn't like the name", but "Ian". Talk about going the extra mile to white-wash a character.

----------


## adrikito

> and "Ian". Not "Damian", because he "didn't like the name", but "Ian". Talk about going the extra mile to white-wash a character.


Seriously? It was for that??

----------


## Jackalope89

> Seriously? It was for that??


Yep. It was one of the first issues where it was mentioned, but yeah.

----------


## Restingvoice

> If the Al Ghul's are from Turkey according to Damian's Truth and Justice story, then they aren't Arabs because the Turks are a different ethnic group from central Asia. Central Asians have lighter skin compared to South Asians. Damian having fair skin is accurate.


The Turkish interpretation was based on a misread of Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul where Talia described Ra's as having "led a Byzantine life" that resulted in his Wikipedia article assigned him as Ottoman Turkish living in Byzantine Empire era. 

That said, since it is written in a story now, even if it's semi out of continuity, if you want to count Truth and Justice as canon...




> Well since we're talking about some history.
> 
> The gods in that issue were Anatolian, specifically Hitties. So if we're going by the theory that the Al Ghuls originate from the Anatolia. Here's my take.
> 
> It could be the distance past the Al Ghuls was different in antiquity and classical period before the Arabian conquest in the region, that far into the past they would have seen the Persian, Macedonian, Roman, expansion in the region. 
> 
> Where the original Al Ghuls probably took up the Al Ghul to adopt to the customs of that time, and intermarrying with the Arabs at the given time period. Though if the Al Ghuls were in Anatolia it was in the midst of the Ottoman empire and various other kingdoms. And where Ra's gets into the picture being born in 1430 in the Arabian region, and was described as a nomadic person. 
> 
> So likely that the Al Ghuls were originally from Anatolia, intermarried with Arabs, and Ra's somewhere was born in the Arabian region who became a nomad and travelled to east via Silk Road. 
> ...


...It's possible that the nomad tribe on his mother's side originated from Anatolia, since his mother's origin was never revealed, only his father, who is Chinese)




> With all due respect to everyone but how can they decide Damian skin color when they are yet to decide is Talia white or a POC.


She's always Chinese Arab plus whatever Ra's is, and they're never white. So if DC can't decide, then we help them by not buying the white one and keep rejecting any white washing.

----------


## Daedalus

> Well since we're talking about some history.
> 
> The gods in that issue were Anatolian, specifically Hitties. So if we're going by the theory that the Al Ghuls originate from the Anatolia. Here's my take.
> 
> It could be the distance past the Al Ghuls was different in antiquity and classical period before the Arabian conquest in the region, that far into the past they would have seen the Persian, Macedonian, Roman, expansion in the region. 
> 
> Where the original Al Ghuls probably took up the Al Ghul to adopt to the customs of that time, and intermarrying with the Arabs at the given time period. Though if the Al Ghuls were in Anatolia it was in the midst of the Ottoman empire and various other kingdoms. And where Ra's gets into the picture being born in 1430 in the Arabian region, and was described as a nomadic person. 
> 
> So likely that the Al Ghuls were originally from Anatolia, intermarried with Arabs, and Ra's somewhere was born in the Arabian region who became a nomad and travelled to east via Silk Road. 
> ...


This could work, and I like this take. I suppose "Ra's al Ghul", which we all know to be Arabic for Head of the Demon, is a self-styled title or nome de guerre, and Ra's the man was born under a different name, which he has long stopped using.

----------


## HsssH

Couldn't he simply be Arab who lived in Anatolia? Its not like Ottoman empire had only one ethnicity.

----------


## Fergus

> Couldn't he simply be Arab who lived in Anatolia? Its not like Ottoman empire had only one ethnicity.


Truth and Justice isn't canon. The writer said that he has never been able to explore his culture and heritage in his few years writing comics. This gave him a chance to do so and then he thanks the fans for buying the book.


The idea was to showcase young writers of colour. A platform for young up and coming storytellers to reveal their take on Popular characters.

*Subsequent installments of Truth & Justice will showcase the heart and spirit of the wide-ranging characters featured across DCs Multiverse. With an endless array of characters to choose fromheroes, villains, aliens, animalsyou name it, we have it!*

So that was Anissa's [the writer] take on Damian not Dc's official take

----------


## Veni

> Couldn't he simply be Arab who lived in Anatolia? Its not like Ottoman empire had only one ethnicity.


The Arabs didn't invade the Byzantine Empire. So no. If he lived in Anatolia, the writers at DC would have a variety of options to choose from such as Hittite, Greek, Macedonian, Armenian, Turkish, etc. The Ottoman Empire was multiethnic, yes, but ethnic and religious minorities were treated as second-class citizens. That's why the word Ottoman is used for people of Turkish descent up to the year 1922. After 1922, The Republic of Turkey was born and became an ethnostate.

----------


## Perfidiously

You know, I appreciate people discussing Ra's' actual origins. So many people just go "Middle Eastern", which conflates a lot of different peoples and cultures. I think it's fascinating to look at Ra's' (admittedly inconsistent) backstory and try and figure out where he was actually from and then maybe discuss how his origins/ethnicity/culture would influence Talia and in turn influence Damian.

----------


## Vakanai

> You know, I appreciate people discussing Ra's' actual origins. So many people just go "Middle Eastern", which conflates a lot of different peoples and cultures. I think it's fascinating to look at Ra's' (admittedly inconsistent) backstory and try and figure out where he was actually from and then maybe discuss how his origins/ethnicity/culture would influence Talia and in turn influence Damian.


I could've sworn B:TAS had him explain he was a Conquistador who found the Lazarus pit and took over. Am I misremembering that?

----------


## Rac7d*

> You know, I appreciate people discussing Ra's' actual origins. So many people just go "Middle Eastern", which conflates a lot of different peoples and cultures. I think it's fascinating to look at Ra's' (admittedly inconsistent) backstory and try and figure out where he was actually from and then maybe discuss how his origins/ethnicity/culture would influence Talia and in turn influence Damian.


How old is ra’s exactly?

----------


## Eckri

> I could've sworn B:TAS had him explain he was a Conquistador who found the Lazarus pit and took over. Am I misremembering that?





> How old is ra’s exactly?


Most sources say he was born 1430 or around that period. 
So mostly 500 ish years old, so he's not that old compared to other DC humanoids. E.G. Vandal Savage.

Since he was a nomad, who knows what his origins entail. I mean, he was certainly young enough to see the Fall of Constantinople at 1453, and surely old then to have join the Spanish Conquistador when colonization occurs.

At what period when he discovered the Lazarus pit, that's something left in mystery. Or I don't know.

----------


## Restingvoice

> I could've sworn B:TAS had him explain he was a Conquistador who found the Lazarus pit and took over. Am I misremembering that?


if they did they made it up. 

The origin of The Pit by Ra's creators was that he found it while meditating in his birthplace home in North Africa trying to find a way to save the Sultan's son.

----------


## Vakanai

> if they did they made it up. 
> 
> The origin of The Pit by Ra's creators was that he found it while meditating in his birthplace home in North Africa trying to find a way to save the Sultan's son.


Maybe he said he had to defend it from some conquistadors then? I'm trying to remember stuff from 25+ years ago though so probably just misremembering.

----------


## Daedalus

> Truth and Justice isn't canon. The writer said that he has never been able to explore his culture and heritage in his few years writing comics. This gave him a chance to do so and then he thanks the fans for buying the book.
> 
> 
> The idea was to showcase young writers of colour. A platform for young up and coming storytellers to reveal their take on Popular characters.
> 
> *Subsequent installments of Truth & Justice will showcase the heart and spirit of the wide-ranging characters featured across DC’s Multiverse. With an endless array of characters to choose from—heroes, villains, aliens, animals—you name it, we have it!*
> 
> So that was Anissa's [the writer] take on Damian not Dc's official take


This is helpful and makes things less convoluted. I think it's best that Ra's be Arab, since his name is Arabic. It's bad enough that DC can't settle on how to pronounce his name, even though it's a perfectly normal word in a real language.




> Most sources say he was born 1430 or around that period. 
> So mostly 500 ish years old, so he's not that old compared to other DC humanoids. E.G. Vandal Savage.
> 
> Since he was a nomad, who knows what his origins entail. I mean, he was certainly young enough to see the Fall of Constantinople at 1453, and surely old then to have join the Spanish Conquistador when colonization occurs.
> 
> At what period when he discovered the Lazarus pit, that's something left in mystery. Or I don't know.


Now that you put it like that, I kind of really want a "Ra's al Ghul witnesses/influences real historical events" comic. I’d love to see a young Ra’s at the Fall of Constantinople.

----------


## Eckri

> Now that you put it like that, I kind of really want a "Ra's al Ghul witnesses/influences real historical events" comic. I’d love to see a young Ra’s at the Fall of Constantinople.


Oh that's nice, willing to bet that he would be Janissary, it would also add to the fact the Janissary were educated and trained. Wasn't he a slave at one point? yeah that would fit.

Damian's reaction to it would be nice, Grand pa telling his Grand son his days while he was young.

Ra's: So I and my Janissary companions forwarded to Constantinople. The last of Romans died bravely, Constantine the 11th, I saw it with my own eyes, and fought him.  

Damian: Mother never mentioned this, you never mentioned this besides talking on how long you lived. What happened next?

Ra's: Afterwards, I had enough of being the Sultan's bodyguard, and escaped to the Italy to see the Renaissance.

Damian: The part you found the Lazarus pit? 

Ra's: We'll get there, grand son. 

It's bizarre that Ra's al Ghul of all people in the Robin series gave us a wholesome Grand-son to Grand-father moments, compared to Thomas Wayne.

----------


## adrikito

Another one:

Robin 2021 Annual Damian Wayne poses.jpg

----------


## delaviux

I just found out. Looks like Damian will be in the Beast Boy and Raven graphic novel. He will be Damian in name only, from the looks of it, his personality is that of Dick Grayson. Some fans are speculating that the authors wanted to use Dick as Robin but DC banned it so they used Damian but with Dick's personality. And it looks like this "Damian" has a "thing" for a fellow Titan (no, it's not Raven), but the latter is just speculation and not confirmed. Either way, I predict when this comic comes out the fandom will be on fire.

----------


## Morgoth

> He will be Damian in name only, from the looks of it, his personality is that of Dick Grayson. Some fans are speculating that the authors wanted to use Dick as Robin but DC banned it so they used Damian but with Dick's personality.


Um, but why?

----------


## Eckri

> Um, but why?


Guessing from a Robin selection stand point:

Damian is recognizable due to the New 52 movies but wants his personality to be Dick to go with the graphic novel flow. 

Dick probably reserved for other stuff, Jason is won't be an obvious choice, and Tim is currently going to limbo but I do say it should have been Tim, give the kid some exposure. 

Eh, It's a non-canon graphic novel, I wouldn't mind it at all.

----------


## Aahz

Maybe DC just wants the writer to use Damian, since Damian is currently Robin.

Stuff like that happend before, DCAU had versions of Tim Drake and Kyle Rayner that were "heavily inspired" by Jason Todd and Hal Jordan.

----------


## Lal

> I just found out. Looks like Damian will be in the Beast Boy and Raven graphic novel. He will be Damian in name only, from the looks of it, his personality is that of Dick Grayson. Some fans are speculating that the authors wanted to use Dick as Robin but DC banned it so they used Damian but with Dick's personality. And it looks like this "Damian" has a "thing" for a fellow Titan (no, it's not Raven), but the latter is just speculation and not confirmed. Either way, I predict when this comic comes out the fandom will be on fire.


Do you have a link? Who announced it?
Super weird it would be Damian.

----------


## adrikito

> I just found out. Looks like Damian will be in the Beast Boy and Raven graphic novel. 
> 
> He will be Damian in name only, from the looks of it, his personality is that of Dick Grayson. Some fans are speculating that the authors wanted to use Dick as Robin but DC banned it so they used Damian but with Dick's personality. And it looks like this "Damian" has a "thing" for a fellow Titan (no, it's not Raven), but the latter is just speculation and not confirmed.


Maybe Wondergirl? Cassie like in DCEASED..

Or Donna if we talk about Dick Titans generation. 

Ahhh... Speculation. I am fine if he has NOT a thing for nobody.. The novel is about BB and Raven.

----------


## marhawkman

> Maybe Wondergirl? Cassie like in DCEASED..
> 
> Or Donna if we talk about Dick Titans generation. 
> 
> Ahhh... Speculation. I am fine if he has NOT a thing for nobody.. The novel is about BB and Raven.


It'd be funny if they had Damian hook up with a random League of Shadows chick.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Fergus

> Um, but why?



That's not strange, Damian is Robin. The Book is a YA book and DC bungled  Damian's Zoom title [Ian Wayne with Brown hair!] 

Fans were also speculating that Damian in Batman, Robin and Jerry seemed more like Dick but having read it he's toned down [Kid friendly] but still Damian.

Poor Dick Grayson. His bros just keep 'borrowing' what's his. The price you have to pay for being the 1st and the How to guide.

Dick I would guess Dc wants to focus on pushing as Nightwing. For a persona that's been around for so long, Dc has really not done nearly enough to spotlight and promote Dick as Nightwing

----------


## Rac7d*

> I just found out. Looks like Damian will be in the Beast Boy and Raven graphic novel. He will be Damian in name only, from the looks of it, his personality is that of Dick Grayson. Some fans are speculating that the authors wanted to use Dick as Robin but DC banned it so they used Damian but with Dick's personality. And it looks like this "Damian" has a "thing" for a fellow Titan (no, it's not Raven), but the latter is just speculation and not confirmed. Either way, I predict when this comic comes out the fandom will be on fire.


I’m not here for another love triangle

----------


## adrikito

> I’m not here for another love triangle


I neither.. We already had one for Crush fault.. Why give me hopes with Djinn when you had more interest in ship her with Crush?

NO. I feel unable to make this to BB even less knowing that Damian will lose here again.

----------


## Eckri

> I neither.. We already had one for Crush fault.. Why give me hopes with Djinn when you had more interest in ship her with Crush?
> 
> NO. I feel unable to make this to BB even less knowing that Damian will lose here again.


Well the speculation did say it is another Titan, not raven. 
They're most likely just bait those DamRae shippers into buying it, so Damian won't be likely be in a love triangle

----------


## delaviux

It's Starfire guys. That's why fans speculated that the authors wanted to use Dick as Robin.

----------


## Katana500

> I just found out. Looks like Damian will be in the Beast Boy and Raven graphic novel. He will be Damian in name only, from the looks of it, his personality is that of Dick Grayson. Some fans are speculating that the authors wanted to use Dick as Robin but DC banned it so they used Damian but with Dick's personality. And it looks like this "Damian" has a "thing" for a fellow Titan (no, it's not Raven), but the latter is just speculation and not confirmed. Either way, I predict when this comic comes out the fandom will be on fire.


Sounds interesting! Is that series of graphic novels any good? I've been meaning to read them, heard good things.

Where did you learn that Robin would be appearing!

----------


## adrikito

> It'd be funny if they had Damian hook up with a random League of Shadows chick.


Yeah.. It would be interesting but... Damian is not the MC in that novel.

What other user said maybe is for attract the Damirae here somehow.

----------


## Morgoth

If they want to attract DamiRae shippers (which is highly unlikely), I doubt they would make it in the book about Raven and Beast Boy.
Probably the reason is simple - they once again want to push Damian harder, and asked to add him there.

----------


## Konja7

> It's Starfire guys. That's why fans speculated that the authors wanted to use Dick as Robin.


I knew it was Starfire, since they mentioned Dick's personality.

Regarding personality, this Damian would likely be similar to Robin in Teen Titans 2003 animation. 

Although that Robin is Dick Grayson, his personality is more similar to Dick Grayson in Mark Wolfman's NTT. So, he wouldn't be so contradictory with Damian in personality.

----------


## adrikito

> If they want to attract DamiRae shippers (which is highly unlikely), I doubt they would make it in the book about Raven and Beast Boy.
> Probably the reason is simple - they once again want to push Damian harder, and asked to add him there.


I feel like if Damian has enough with what he has...

Anyway. I desire to him good luck and any kind o shipping in that book.

----------


## Rac7d*

> It's Starfire guys. That's why fans speculated that the authors wanted to use Dick as Robin.


Jesus why, she like 14 years older than him

----------


## Vakanai

> Jesus why, she like 14 years older than him


Not in the book they're making she isn't. They wanted to use Dick, were told no Robin is Damian, and for their purposes a Robin is a Robin for the Robin x Starfire thing. So Damian is going to be Dick in all but name only, in personality, love interest, and yes age. Because he can be here because out of continuity.

----------


## delaviux

> Jesus why, she like 14 years older than him


Not in that universe. This is an ageup Damian and as far as can be deduced they are about the same age.




> If they want to attract DamiRae shippers (which is highly unlikely), I doubt they would make it in the book about Raven and Beast Boy.


Yes, the Damirae shippers have always hated these graphic novels and they make no secret of it. Whatever the reason they used Damian, it's not because of them.

----------


## Badou

A bit surprising they would ban Dick from being used in an out of continuity OGN where it is clearly inspired by the Teen Titans cartoon. I guess they have done this a few times in the past with Robin. It is one of those weird things were a DC is very picky about how they can use the character. The Jason/Tim situation for the BTAS was already mentioned, and then they also didn't want Dick to be in Justice League United because he was appearing as Robin in the TT cartoon. I wonder if there is some quota where they don't want a Dick appearing as Robin more than the current Robin (Damian) in other projects. So this was one of those projects where they ruled it had to be Damian and not Dick. No idea. 

This is one of those situations where Dick giving up the Robin identity originally I think hurts him. Since Nightwing will never be what Robin is as a brand probably. It's worked out great for DC with them now having so many Robin characters they can use from Dick, Jason, Tim, and Damian, but for Dick's individual character it has caused the Robin identity to be diffused quite a bit where a DC feels like they can just replace Dick with Damian and use Dick's history for him. I kind of feel like this is going to happen more and more the longer Dick is removed from being Robin originally. We are approaching 40 years soon.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Not in the book they're making she isn't. They wanted to use Dick, were told no Robin is Damian, and for their purposes a Robin is a Robin for the Robin x Starfire thing. So Damian is going to be Dick in all but name only, in personality, love interest, and yes age. Because he can be here because out of continuity.


I still don’t get why, be more compelling to just will they won’t they with Damian and Gar

----------


## Rac7d*

> A bit surprising they would ban Dick from being used in an out of continuity OGN where it is clearly inspired by the Teen Titans cartoon. I guess they have done this a few times in the past with Robin. It is one of those weird things were a DC is very picky about how they can use the character. The Jason/Tim situation for the BTAS was already mentioned, and then they also didn't want Dick to be in Justice League United because he was appearing as Robin in the TT cartoon. I wonder if there is some quota where they don't want a Dick appearing as Robin more than the current Robin (Damian) in other projects. So this was one of those projects where they ruled it had to be Damian and not Dick. No idea. 
> 
> This is one of those situations where Dick giving up the Robin identity originally I think hurts him. Since Nightwing will never be what Robin is as a brand probably. It's worked out great for DC with them now having so many Robin characters they can use from Dick, Jason, Tim, and Damian, but for Dick's individual character it has caused the Robin identity to be diffused quite a bit where a DC feels like they can just replace Dick with Damian and use Dick's history for him. I kind of feel like this is going to happen more and more the longer Dick is removed from being Robin originally. We are approaching 40 years soon.


I don’t belive that he is slowly creeping in a direction that makes him a brand, now that diddo is out of the way

----------


## Daedalus

> A bit surprising they would ban Dick from being used in an out of continuity OGN where it is clearly inspired by the Teen Titans cartoon.


Although the Robin from Teen Titans certainly took elements from Dick, he was pretty clearly a composite character - his personality was much closer to Tim's, for example.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Although the Robin from Teen Titans certainly took elements from Dick, he was pretty clearly a composite character - his personality was much closer to Tim's, for example.


How ? In what way and please don’t say the bow staff

----------


## Vakanai

> I still don’t get why, be more compelling to just will they won’t they with Damian and Gar


Because they want to do the whole Teen Titans and want Robin and Starfire ala the cartoon. It's not that complicated, some comic fans just don't like that Damian is subbing for Dick's role, but that's not really fair on the writer's. Blame DC's weird character rules or whatever.

----------


## Daedalus

> How ? In what way and please don’t say the bow staff


Dick Grayson is fun-loving, chatty, wholesome guy, with a permanent smile on his face. Tim Drake is stoic, quieter, more introverted, prone to obsession, and focused on intellectual pursuits. I love them both as characters, but Teen Titans's Robin was much closer to Tim personality-wise, though as I said, he did have plenty of Dick Grayson elements.

I don't think the bow staff or any design choice have anything to do with it.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Dick Grayson is fun-loving, chatty, wholesome guy, with a permanent smile on his face. Tim Drake is stoic, quieter, more introverted, prone to obsession, and focused on intellectual pursuits. I love them both as characters, but Teen Titans's Robin was much closer to Tim personality-wise, though as I said, he did have plenty of Dick Grayson elements.
> 
> I don't think the bow staff or any design choice have anything to do with it.


He was not always like especially during the new teen titans
He could be a real sourpuss most days

The true fun dick is either his Robin days year one Nightwing into Dixon era

----------


## Badou

> Although the Robin from Teen Titans certainly took elements from Dick, he was pretty clearly a composite character - his personality was much closer to Tim's, for example.


Outside the costume and staff I don't think he was much like Tim. There were similarities of course, but Robin's personality in the cartoon was more like Dick from the NTT era of comics who was written a lot more seriously back then. He was a lot like Cyclops from the X-Men. Because the NTT team had characters like Wally and Gar on it to take up the comedic role Dick kind of became the more serious leader. This was the era of stories like Who is Donna Troy? where Dick was a lot more analytical as well.

----------


## Godlike13

> Dick Grayson is fun-loving, chatty, wholesome guy, with a permanent smile on his face. Tim Drake is stoic, quieter, more introverted, prone to obsession, and focused on intellectual pursuits. I love them both as characters, but Teen Titans's Robin was much closer to Tim personality-wise, though as I said, he did have plenty of Dick Grayson elements.
> 
> I don't think the bow staff or any design choice have anything to do with it.


That’s not actually how Dick was during his NTTs days. Dick was highly focused, intellectual, and retreated. Dick’s character has fazes, Dick Grayson becoming that fun-loving, chatty, wholesome guy, with a permanent smile on his face again was something he had to mature back into being. After years of being with the Titans and working through his insecurities and conditioning.

----------


## Konja7

> Dick Grayson is fun-loving, chatty, wholesome guy, with a permanent smile on his face. Tim Drake is stoic, quieter, more introverted, prone to obsession, and focused on intellectual pursuits. I love them both as characters, but Teen Titans's Robin was much closer to Tim personality-wise, though as I said, he did have plenty of Dick Grayson elements.
> 
> I don't think the bow staff or any design choice have anything to do with it.


Dick Grayson wasn't always that way. In New Teen Titans, he was pretty stoic, quiet and analytical (even when he was Robin).

Dick becomes fun-loving in Dixon's Nightwing. This is likely, because they want him to be different from Batman.


That's why I suspect the Robin's personality in the OGN won't be so contradictory in personality with Damian.

----------


## adrikito

I like these sketches. Like the fact that he is taller than in 2020:

Robin 2021 Annual Damian Wayne move.jpg

----------


## marhawkman

> That’s not actually how Dick was during his NTTs days. Dick was highly focused, intellectual, and retreated. Dick’s character has fazes, Dick Grayson becoming that fun-loving, chatty, wholesome guy, with a permanent smile on his face again was something he had to mature back into being. After years of being with the Titans and working through his insecurities and conditioning.


And then there was how Trigon things happened... to Dick.

----------


## Fergus

> Although the Robin from Teen Titans certainly took elements from Dick, he was pretty clearly a composite character - his personality was much closer to Tim's, for example.


What! This is untrue and needs to be killed with fire.

People should read the actual comics not just repeat claims they see online as if it's factual.

Yet more misinformation spread by the fans of "The Best Robin". Have you heard that Tim is the only other person that Ra's has called Detective other than Bruce?

----------


## Fergus

> Dick Grayson wasn't always that way. In New Teen Titans, he was pretty stoic, quiet and analytical (even when he was Robin).
> 
> Dick becomes fun-loving in Dixon's Nightwing. This is likely, because they want him to be different from Batman.
> 
> 
> That's why I suspect the Robin's personality in the OGN won't be so contradictory in personality with Damian.


Yeah I don't think he'll be that contradictory. Toned down the brattish priggish ways yeah but still enough to be recognisably Damian.

----------


## Fergus

DC is so strange. If the book is out of continuity and is using some of Dick's personal lore why not just use that robin? 

A Robin is a Robin. But use the current Robin who is Damian.

So are they interchangeable or not?

----------


## Rac7d*

> DC is so strange. If the book is out of continuity and is using some of Dick's personal lore why not just use that robin? 
> 
> A Robin is a Robin. But use the current Robin who is Damian.
> 
> So are they interchangeable or not?


Not they are not the same, even though from a distance they sometimes look it

----------


## Konja7

> People should read the actual comics not just repeat claims they see online as if it's factual.


To be fair, there are many comics where Dick is fun-loving, while Tim is more serious. So, people could have problems to associate Dick's personality in many comics with the serious Robin in Teen Titans animation.

That's the "problem" with Dick's personality changing so much through the years.

----------


## Rac7d*

> To be fair, there are many comics where Dick is fun-loving, while Tim is more serious. So, people could have problems to associate Dick's personality in many comics with the serious Robin in Teen Titans animation.
> 
> That's the "problem" with Dick's personality changing so much through the years.


I don’t see it as problem
But a blessing. He has grown up  become the man he is. It no wonder he was so serious as a teen, being raised by the big bat, and I’ll definitely give it up to starfire for his more lightheartedness later on

----------


## Godlike13

Ya, thats not a problem. Thats character progression. Thats what chracters like Tim dream about so they can stop trying to be defined by general character traits. Thats the real problem. Not that Dick's personality is multifaceted, but that the other's aren't.

----------


## Drako

This is why i don't like this scene from Batman and Robin Eternal. People put this characters inside of a box and think they can't be something different. You can get any era of Wolfman's Teen Titans run and see that Dick was serious, some times even too much. Same with Winnick's Outsiders. 

These characters have layers, they aren't just "You are the fist, you are the brain, you are the heart".

----------


## Konja7

> Ya, thats not a problem. Thats character progression. Thats what chracters like Tim dream about so they can stop trying to be defined by general character traits. Thats the real problem. Not that Dick's personality is multifaceted, but that the other's aren't.


The problem is that people define characters by general traits, because it is easier. And current comics also work with that aspect.

That's why it doesn't matter that Dick has a rich story of different facets, many fans currently define Dick by general traits too. That's the reason why they think Robin's personality in Teen Titans animation is closer to Tim.


Honestly, I've problem to call Dick being fun-loving by Dixon as a character progression when it was clearly make to differentiate him from Batman.

----------


## Eckri

> Ya, thats not a problem. Thats character progression. Thats what chracters like Tim dream about so they can stop trying to be defined by general character traits. Thats the real problem. Not that Dick's personality is multifaceted, but that the other's aren't.





> This is why i don't like this scene from Batman and Robin Eternal. People put this characters inside of a box and think they can't be something different. You can get any era of Wolfman's Teen Titans run and see that Dick was serious, some times even too much. Same with Winnick's Outsiders. 
> 
> These characters have layers, they aren't just "You are the fist, you are the brain, you are the heart".


Fair enough we all have favorite eras of our characters, and character progression makes the characters more entertaining. 
Jason fans would loathe at Pre-New 52 Jason but adore New 52 era Jason. 
Tim fans loved his Robin run and wish for him currently to be more prominent 
Damian fans mostly didn't like the Teen Titans run but Son of Batman and current Robin series are adored.

Same with Dick, different eras different types. Some liked his more serious tone, and some light hearted. And character progression could mix the two into a good compromise. Personally my all time favorite era/version of Dick is from Adam West verse. He's serious, funny, and all around wholesome. 

caped-crusaders.jpg

----------


## Eckri

> The problem is that people define characters by general traits, because it easier. And current comics also work with that aspect.


Might as well include that if they want to sell people on comics, it is easier for them to label each character with one trait. Just to tell the character to non-comic readers. You just don't dump a whole comic history worth on people, you gotta ease them in into reading and figuring it out with little steps. General traits helps that.

That way if some non-comic readers wants to delve into comics, they can find out that Dick Grayson isn't just a all fun around guy, he can be serious.

----------


## Godlike13

> The problem is that people define characters by general traits, because it is easier. And current comics also work with that aspect.
> 
> That's why it doesn't matter that Dick has a rich story of different facets, many fans currently define Dick by general traits too. That's the reason why they think Robin's personality in Teen Titans animation is closer to Tim.
> 
> 
> Honestly, I've problem to call Dick being fun-loving by Dixon as a character progression when it was clearly make to differentiate him from Batman.


People don’t, lazy writers do which then leads to people being misinformed. It does matter that Dick has a rich story of different facets as it allows him to be versatile and stay relevant through out the years. Some people might think the Robin in Teen Titans acted like Tim but it doesn’t change that it was Dick, or that it was Dick in YJ, or Dick in Titans. There’s a reason the other Robins copy him. Defining the Robins by general traits it mostly just a comic thing that adaptations and better writers generally ignore. 

Dick started as being fun loving. That was a part of character from go, then as he became a teenager and moved away from that part of himself because his insecurities and responsibilities as a leader, and then as an adult found that part of himself again. That’s maturation. That’s growing up. He progressed beyond it, developed a different side of himself, and then grew into both.

----------


## adrikito

Any news for Solicitations yet? I am interested in see if the Lazarus tournament ends in December.

----------


## Digifiend

They should be this Friday.

----------


## Badou

> People dont, lazy writers do which then leads to people being misinformed. It does matter that Dick has a rich story of different facets as it allows him to be versatile and stay relevant through out the years. Some people might think the Robin in Teen Titans acted like Tim but it doesnt change that it was Dick, or that it was Dick in YJ, or Dick in Titans. Theres a reason the other Robins copy him. Defining the Robins by general traits it mostly just a comic thing that adaptations and better writers generally ignore. 
> 
> Dick started as being fun loving. That was a part of character from go, then as he became a teenager and moved away from that part of himself because his insecurities and responsibilities as a leader, and then as an adult found that part of himself again. Thats maturation. Thats growing up. He progressed beyond it, developed a different side of himself, and then grew into both.


I don't know if it is all on the writers. The big problem is that when you have a bunch of characters all occupying the same space/role in a limited amount of pages to tell stories you can't really give each character their full attention. So it all gets diffused into each being placed into certain categories or roles, which tend to be somewhat basic. Because it is easier to sell these different Robins as being a certain thing (the serious one, the funny one, the angry one, and so on) to the general public because they tend to like things being placed in specific categories that they can easily understand.

----------


## dietrich

> This is why i don't like this scene from Batman and Robin Eternal. People put this characters inside of a box and think they can't be something different. You can get any era of Wolfman's Teen Titans run and see that Dick was serious, some times even too much. Same with Winnick's Outsiders. 
> 
> These characters have layers, they aren't just "You are the fist, you are the brain, you are the heart".


I hate this type of characterisations so much. 

These guys are Much more than this.
Characters [should] grow and change as their experiences force them to evolve.

----------


## Hypo

There's a Batman 666 story by Tim Seeley and Juan Ferreyra in this weeks Batman: Urban Legends #7.

----------


## dietrich

The Wayne Family Adventures is such a brilliant series thus far. Their Damian is adorable.

Have you guys seen the dub?

----------


## Aahz

> These characters have layers, they aren't just "You are the fist, you are the brain, you are the heart".


Thing is that they didn't even manage to show this Dynamik in that series imo.

I also don't mind stuff like that in cross overs, since these characters are at least if you look at their solos and non Batfamily team books often written pretty similarly. Especially in team books they often fall into the role of a serious introverted looner type of leader.

And I definitely prefer "You are the fist, you are the brain, you are the heart" thing over the "Dick and Damian are the best, Jason is an idiot and no one cares about Tim" thing, that you also often see.

----------


## Aahz

> Honestly, I've problem to call Dick being fun-loving by Dixon as a character progression when it was clearly make to differentiate him from Batman.


Dixon's Nightwing was not that fun loving, at least not to the of how he is written in some current comics.
And especially the thing of him as the improviser, that runs smiling into any dangerous situation without a plan, seems to me more ooc than character progression.

----------


## Rac7d*

Fun loving is the wrong way to put this
 Relaxed, friendly, warm

----------


## dietrich

[QUOTE=Aahz;5728768]


> These characters have layers, they aren't just "You are the fist, you are the brain, you are the heart"./QUOTE]Thing is that they didn't even manage to show this Dynamik in that series imo.
> 
> I also don't mind stuff like that in cross overs, since these characters are at least if you look at their solos and non Batfamily team books often written pretty similarly. Especially in team books they often fall into the role of a serious introverted looner type of leader.
> 
> And I definitely prefer "You are the fist, you are the brain, you are the heart" thing over the "Dick and Damian are the best, Jason is an idiot and no one cares about Tim" thing, that you also often see.


Which exact title says that Dick and Damian are best? Tim is the one that is often hyped as the best.

Damian is the only one that I can recall any character ever saying that Bruce didn't care for.

We are never told anything of the sort you claim so I believe that's your subjective interpretation.

Which honestly is meaningless and harmless unlike the nonsense Fist, Heart, Brain, Blood [Tynion says that's the part of Bruce that Damian is whatever the fuck that means] BS that is canon. 

Nonsense like this doesn't belong in canon and writers shouldn't be encouraged to be so lazy.

----------


## Aahz

> Which exact title says that Dick and Damian are best?


My statement was of course a little exaggerated, but the treatment of Tim and Jason in stuff like Robin War or Tomasis Batman and Robin often felt like that. (Or Tom Kings rating of their combat skills on twitter, which is something that the main Batman writer should not do in the first place ...)

Btw. not that B&RE was much better in that regard. Only that in case of that series it was Dick and Harper.

----------


## Aahz

Btw I also don't think that the "Fist, Heart, Brain" thing is something they should have put on page in the way they did. 

But I think that it would be a kind team dynamic, that they had actually given them the respective roles in the story, would work with these characters and had given each of them their moment to shine and something contribute.

While in the actual story Tim were first exiled into an pointless subplot, with Jason just tagging along because they didn't know what to do with him, and got then completely sidelined and just used as jobbers.

----------


## dietrich

> My statement was of course a little exaggerated, but the treatment of Tim and Jason in stuff like Robin War or Tomasis Batman and Robin often felt like that. (Or Tom Kings rating of their combat skills on twitter, which is something that the main Batman writer should not do in the first place ...)
> 
> Btw. not that B&RE was much better in that regard. Only that in case of that series it was Dick and Harper.


Tomasi's B&R which didn't acknowledge Dick's great contribution to Damian's life. Underplaying while developing Bruce and Damian.

Dick was done the worst by that title.
Robin war wasn't as bad as BRE and neither of those title did what you claim.
Damian didn't even show up in BRE till the end despite being the current Robin. Talk about books giving the impression that someone doesn't matter.

A celebration of the Robins and it didn't have the current Robin.



King's list was approved by Tynion who loves Tim Drake and Lobdell choose not to comment when he could have defended  Jason. 

I don't why you bring that up since the people involved were a Catwoman fan, a Tim fan just having fun. Just because you didn't like the positions on the list doesn't mean they were mistreating the characters
I don't know who should and shouldn't be rating the families combat skills but again it's not canon and not as harmful

----------


## Blue22

> Have you guys seen the dub?


I did actually. Thought the guy voicing Damian sounded a little like Yuri Lowenthal lol

----------


## Frontier

> I did actually. Thought the guy voicing Damian sounded a little like Yuri Lowenthal lol


Yuri did voice him in Batman: Ninja...

----------


## Astralabius

> My statement was of course a little exaggerated, but the treatment of Tim and Jason in stuff like Robin War or Tomasis Batman and Robin often felt like that. (Or Tom Kings rating of their combat skills on twitter, which is something that the main Batman writer should not do in the first place ...)
> 
> Btw. not that B&RE was much better in that regard. Only that in case of that series it was Dick and Harper.


How exactly did Tomasi's Batman and Robin run give you the impression that Tim doesn't matter and Jason is an idiot?
Considering that Tomasi could have simply not included them I think they showed up quite a lot and not in a bad way if you look at the run as a whole.
Tomasi's Bruce wanted an official family portrait with everyone who was part of the Wayne family at the time (sans Jason because he was still officially dead), not just with Damian.
Yes, Damian did beat Jason and Tim, but he also had to be saved by them not too long afterwards.
Many people forget that a lot of the tension in the family during the arc after Damian's death has less to do with Damian dying and more with the fallout from death of the family. Also, Tomasi is hardly the first one who wrote Bruce being an ass and isolating himself after the death of a loved one.
I really don't get why so many people miss that we are not supposed to agree with Bruce in that arc. Tim is not the bad guy in the story where Bruce tried to find out if he could revive Damian by turning him into Frankenstein's monster. Jason is not an idiot when he gets angry at Bruce for trying to make him remember his death and resurrection. Bruce is the idiot, the asshole, the bad guy. He realizes this by the end of the arc and apologizes when he calls all of them together before he goes to apokolips. He trusts all of them to watch over the city in case he doesn't make it back.
Tomasi also wrote all of them following Bruce to help him.
The run was probably the closest we got to Bruce working together with the family in the New 52 that I can think of and it didn't had to be.

----------


## adrikito

> Tim is not the bad guy in the story where Bruce tried to find out if he could revive Damian by turning him into Frankenstein's monster.


Forgot about it.. Make him a frankenstein MONSTER..  :EEK!:  and this man is the one against use LAZARUS PITS to revive Damian or Alfred.

----------


## HsssH

Was he against Lazarus Pit for Damian? I thought he was just exploring every possible "solution".

----------


## Astralabius

> Was he against Lazarus Pit for Damian? I thought he was just exploring every possible "solution".


At that point of the story he had accepted that Damian was dead and was only trying to get the body back from Ra's.
He was also worried about the risks and lingering problems the pits can cause (he also wanted to test out the frankenstein-revival-method on other dead bodies first before performing it on Damian, Bruce was bordering on insane in his grief but he wasn't completely reckless).

Ra's also planned to use a special pit (where do these special pits always come from?) that would have erased Talia's and Damian's memories. Ra's wanted to bring them both back under his control.

It wasn't until Bruce touched the chaos shard (that thing he used to bring back Damian in the end), which caused him to see a vision of the future (don't ask, I can't explain it either) and a way to bring Damian back, that Bruce decided he would attempt to bring him back once more. Plus, the guys from apokolips stole Damian's coffin/corpse so he had to go there anyway.

Has Bruce said anything about reviving Alfred? I don't remember anything like that. I just assumed that the in-universe reason is that Alfred was already an old man when he died and not a 10 year old boy so Bruce kinda accepted his death more easily.

----------


## dietrich

https://annie-chuu.tumblr.com



https://tammysart.tumblr.com

----------


## adrikito

Batman 666 returned in Batman:Urban Legends 7.. Another apocalypsis in Gotham City. 

Batman 666 Damian Wayne.jpg

----------


## HsssH

It was a fun story, happens some time after Hurt nukes the Gotham that we saw back in Damian 666 focused Batman Inc. issue. Ending was a bit surprising, but I guess it just further drills the point that Damian 666 is really "out there".

----------


## adrikito

What most surprised me is this woman(mentioned in Batman 666) talked like if she was Batman 666 Joe Chill(who created him)..

Batman 666 Damian Wayne vs loveless.jpg

----------


## CPSparkles

After a massive break-out at Arkham Asylum, Batman and his team are on a mission to bring all the escapees back to Arkham. First on the list is Clayface! Using social media, Batgirl taps into an informal network to track Clayface throughout the city. This inspires Penny-One to create a more organized network of informants and spies called Knightwatch!

Available now

----------


## CPSparkles

> Batman 666 returned in Batman:Urban Legends 7.. Another apocalypsis in Gotham City. 
> 
> Batman 666 Damian Wayne.jpg


Wasn't aware of this. Is this this week's Urban Legends?

----------


## Arctic Cyclist

> Was he against Lazarus Pit for Damian? I thought he was just exploring every possible "solution".


?????

What do you mean? All the Lazarus Pits were gone except for the one beneath Nanda Parbat that would erase memories and became available because of the Trinity War/Forever Evil events. That was a carryover from Pre-Flashpoint. It was also loosely linked King's Omega Men, which hinted that the Lazarus Pits were Stellarium and essential for a planet's core stability. Which was a nod to the Legion future where we learn that every planet has a Lazarus Pit core, and Ra's eventually merges with it to inhabit all planets at once.

Damian's actions in Robin: Son of Batman restored the Lazarus Heart and therefore all of the extinct Pits.

Switch to digital, dude. It makes it easier to read and reread comics plus it's cheaper. Which means you don't have to get your information from gossip sites and embrace meta ignorance. You can go straight to the source with ease. Although there is the downside of the comic being edited after you purchase it, like happened with King's run and what they did to the Detective Comics Annual where Damian almost got raped.

----------


## adrikito

> Wasn't aware of this. Is this this week's Urban Legends?


YEAH... The 7 issue is this week issue.

----------


## HsssH

> Detective Comics Annual where Damian almost got raped.


What the fuck?

----------


## adrikito

WTF.. I do not remember that annual but sounds like a TERRIBLE WAY to describe something.


Happy for the Batgirls comic but.. 

Please. I need to read Robin December solicitation. I still have to wait almost 2 weeks for more Robin content.  :Mad:

----------


## Astralabius

What annual are we talking about? I never heard of this.

----------


## adrikito

> What annual are we talking about? I never heard of this.


He said something about TOM KING:




> Switch to digital, dude. It makes it easier to read and reread comics plus it's cheaper. Which means you don't have to get your information from gossip sites and embrace meta ignorance. You can go straight to the source with ease. Although there is the downside of the comic being edited after you purchase it,* like happened with King's run and what they did to the Detective Comics Annual where Damian almost got raped.*


But probably Trolling us or exaggerating what happened here

----------


## Astralabius

> He said something about TOM KING:
> 
> 
> 
> But probably Trolling us or exaggerating what happened here


But King never wrote Detective Comics and I can't even remember an annual that had Damian in it...

----------


## Eckri

The Damian almost getting the hard R thing is something I've everywhere. 
I checked on Detective Comics but none, even the Batman annuals where King was the writer. 

Unless I missed something or it's a different writer, that thing that happened to Damian is false.

----------


## Astralabius

Okay, I think they are talking about Detective Comics (1937) annual 11

----------


## Eckri

> Okay, I think they are talking about Detective Comics (1937) annual 11


Checked let's see the dialogue of Hair Lady to Damian.

"Soon to be man...perhaps...very soon"

"Or a dream come true"

"You are no longer required to for the ritual but you may please Mysties in other ways. Come to me...Occupy my time"

Christ, almighty, there are a lot of things Pre-New 52 that went under the radar.

----------


## adrikito

> Checked let's see the dialogue of Hair Lady to Damian.
> 
> "Soon to be man...perhaps...very soon"
> 
> "Or a dream come true"
> 
> "You are no longer required to for the ritual but you may please Mysties in other ways. Come to me...Occupy my time"
> 
> Christ, almighty, there are a lot of things Pre-New 52 that went under the radar.


Who is... HAIR LADY?? WTF..

Pre-N52.. This should be like a pedophile scene.  :Frown:   :EEK!:

----------


## Arctic Cyclist

> But King never wrote Detective Comics and I can't even remember an annual that had Damian in it...


Detective Comics Annual #12, back in the Dick!Bats days. Seven pages were edited out of the digital version because they were too dark for comics. It was a two part story that started the second Michael Lane Azreal series. Damian's first time undercover, the first time he went undercover as a blond, and the only time he's shown in close contact with the Suit of Sorrows and the blades of Sin and Salvation which change dramatically in his presence.

The Tom King digital issue that was edited was in the I Am Suicide story.

----------


## Rac7d*

This is gonna crescendo into something big
but I guess the epilogue is not until January and then February a new arc

----------


## Morgoth

I guess either Jon or Bruce will arrive to help Damian with this demon in 10th issue.

----------


## adrikito

> This is gonna crescendo into something big
> but I guess the epilogue is not until January and then February a new arc


FINALLY.. I have been waiting for this During Hours.

FOR THE LAST TIME?? This is confirming that *Damian will die a 2 TIME before Robin 9.*

----------


## adrikito

> I guess either Jon or Bruce will arrive to help Damian with this demon in 10th issue.


Maybe there is a way to Seal that demon and does not need help from people who is not here.

----------


## Rac7d*

> I guess either Jon or Bruce will arrive to help Damian with this demon in 10th issue.


Why would they do that?

----------


## dietrich

> Why would they do that?


Hopefully they don't. This about Damian doing it his way independently. He is Demon and Detective.

He can do it.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Hopefully they don't. This about Damian doing it his way independently. He is Demon and Detective.
> 
> He can do it.


Pluss connor, rose, and flatline are all their he has all the help he needs

----------


## adrikito

> Pluss connor, rose, and flatline are all their he has all the help he needs


OF COURSE. We do not need more. They need relevance.

And make the peace with Connor for what happened before between him and Damian. Probably this will be his last arc here.

----------


## Rac7d*

> OF COURSE. We do not need more. They need relevance.
> 
> And make the peace with Connor for what happened before between him and Damian. Probably this will be his last arc here.


I wish the this book was bimonthly
or at least mixed in better, most of my anticipated stories all come out the same week

----------


## adrikito

> I wish the this book was bimonthly
> or at least mixed in better, most of my anticipated stories all come out the same week


I too... This month has been a torture.. I have been waiting 2 days for the December solicitation wanting to see something new about ROBIN..

Hoping that Williamson working with Batman does not affect this comic..

----------


## dietrich

Remember that colourist whose resume listed a WB Supersons project amongst the list of animated workload for 2021?

So Scobby Doo did  meet Courage the cowardly dog in a new movie that was just released. 

That was the other spoiler that the background colourist's resume contained.

My hopes that we are indeed getting a Supersons movie as just increased 40%

----------


## Morgoth

They probably will officially announce it closer to DC Fandome and Injustice release.

----------


## Hypo

Variety: Urkel Animated Musical Among Cartoon Network Greenlights for New ACME Night Programming Block



> “Merry Little Batman” is an animated family action comedy. When a six-year-old Damian Wayne finds himself alone in Wayne Manor, he must transform into “Little Batman” in order to defend his home and Gotham City from the crooks and super-villains intent on destroying Christmas. Produced by Warner Bros. Animation and based on characters from DC, the film is executive produced and directed by Mike Roth from a screenplay by Morgan Evans.

----------


## Rac7d*

> I too... This month has been a torture.. I have been waiting 2 days for the December solicitation wanting to see something new about ROBIN..
> 
> Hoping that Williamson working with Batman does not affect this comic..


One more week
and I'm afraid  that in anime fashion were gonna get some kind off flashback for connor or flatline for half the issue

----------


## CPSparkles

The webcomic is gold. loved Damian's Birthday



Also note that on Dick's phone it's a picture of him and Damian wearing party hats

----------


## CPSparkles

I love this

----------


## AmiMizuno

Super cute. I wonder if we will get to see JL

----------


## CPSparkles

> Super cute. I wonder if we will get to see JL


I hope so. I know that we are getting a Wonderwoman series and a Superman series.

I'm curious how JL would wrk as a slice of life. They should also do Middy and Apollo since the site is very yaoi friendly

----------


## AmiMizuno

I mean if anything JL  could be work family and some of the JL is actually family. Like Mister Miracle and Big Barb. Would a Titans one work too? Maybe one on Raven and Beastboy or what about Kori.

----------


## Lucas 35

> I hope so. I know that we are getting a Wonderwoman series and a Superman series.


Really? Source? Where did you read this?

----------


## CPSparkles

> Really? Source? Where did you read this?


In this site. Over on the DC side. The thread that 1st announced that DC was going into partnership with Web toon.

Batman is the test run. The article said they were also working on Superman and Wonder woman projects

----------


## CPSparkles

> I mean if anything JL  could be work family and some of the JL is actually family. Like Mister Miracle and Big Barb. Would a Titans one work too? Maybe one on Raven and Beastboy or what about Kori.


The younger teams work much better. The reason I was sceptical about JL is that we don't want to get into Superfriends territory.

You want the character to still have that air of dignity. Batman in the Wayne Family adventures doesn't really get into shenanigans rather he reacts to them which is why it works. he's the Adult in the room. The comedy and fun moments come from the younger characters like Damian and Jason.

This just my opinion and I'm not a creative person.

----------


## adrikito

More Sketches:

https://twitter.com/rogercruzbr/stat...60279945814016

In the first.. You see like Damian mouth making many things and..* Like 2 lips*(under Damian ear) *that look girl ones. One of them like if it was kissing someone.*(or that is what I think)

In the 2nd one he has a pose like... If Damian is giving orders to someone?   :Confused:  It looks like if there are at least 2 more characters here and he is in middle.

----------


## dietrich

Mum and Dad coming in Batman



It would be nice if we got Talia having more of a presence in Damian's life. I enjoyed Bruce and Talia's dynamic in RSOB. Bickering ex's sharing custody

----------


## adrikito

> Mum and Dad coming in Batman
> 
> 
> 
> It would be nice if we got Talia having more of a presence in Damian's life. I enjoyed Bruce and Talia's dynamic in RSOB. Bickering ex's sharing custody


It was said that she would appear in Williamson Batman?

I am fine with have her far away from him.. I prefer him with Batman even if the current situation Batman and Robin separated seems the best possible option.

----------


## Restingvoice

Introducing the Lazarus Demon by Simone Di Meo for Robin #9 in December

----------


## Eckri

> It was said that she would appear in Williamson Batman?
> 
> I am fine with have her far away from him.. I prefer him with Batman even if the current situation Batman and Robin separated seems the best possible option.


Damian and Talia will most likely cross-over in the Deathstroke Inc./Robin event.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Damian and Talia will most likely cross-over in the Deathstroke Inc./Robin event.


I kind of want deathstroke away from Damian, he been at that kids throat all of last decade

----------


## adrikito

> Introducing the Lazarus Demon by Simone Di Meo for Robin #9 in December


We saw this but... THANKS for this HIGH QUALITY Image.

I did not noticed about it until now but... *Robin 9 ART is by ROGER CRUZ..* 

It seems that GLEB will not be here anymore and Roger will start here in the Annual.. Now I understand his answer to one fan that had some suspicions about it


Anyway. I can´t complain for now. I like ROGER CRUZ Damian sketches and is not making Damian look small. I should start following him in twitter. The people who sees his sketches likes his work.

----------


## Rac7d*

> We saw this but... THANKS for this HIGH QUALITY Image.
> 
> I did not noticed about it until now but... *Robin 9 ART is by ROGER CRUZ..* 
> 
> It seems that GLEB will not be here anymore and Roger will start here in the Annual.. Now I understand his answer to one fan that had some suspicions about it
> 
> 
> Anyway. I can´t complain for now. I like ROGER CRUZ Damian sketches and is not making Damian look small. I should start following him in twitter. The people who sees his sketches likes his work.


It would have been nice if Gleb could have completed the arc, it makes compiliations nicer when its all consistent, But cruz is a great artist as well

----------


## dietrich

> I kind of want deathstroke away from Damian, he been at that kids throat all of last decade


I really enjoy their dynamic but as a Dick Grasyson fan I get peeved when bats and other bats keep stealing his rouges.

Deathstroke arching teens is pretty much what he was created to do and has always done.

Which sort of ties in with the child abusers vibes and elements of the character.

----------


## dietrich

> Introducing the Lazarus Demon by Simone Di Meo for Robin #9 in December


This looks all kinds of Bombastic fun.

----------


## dietrich

> It was said that she would appear in Williamson Batman?
> 
> I am fine with have her far away from him.. I prefer him with Batman even if the current situation Batman and Robin separated seems the best possible option.


It's to Damian's advantage that he has a connections and relationships that can be mined for interesting stories.

Bad/problematic Relationships can often be exploited for interesting plotlines more so than Good relationships.

I don't want Damian surrounded just by people he likes or that like him. That's now covered by The Wayne Family Adventures

----------


## Rac7d*

> I really enjoy their dynamic but as a Dick Grasyson fan I get peeved when bats and other bats keep stealing his rouges.
> 
> Deathstroke arching teens is pretty much what he was created to do and has always done.
> 
> Which sort of ties in with the child abusers vibes and elements of the character.


Deathroke pulled a harley quinn way before she did, I barely consider him a titans rouge anymore. He is more of a second cousin to the batfamily rouges, him being setup to be bruce's nemesis in Zack Snyder's JL plans would have cemented that forever. But this chracters has mooved way beyond the titans. It took 35 years for Starfire to get her own ongoing, while deathroke has had several and more to come, plenty of chracters have spinned out of him and lore directly from him, animation, video games.

I dont care for him to be around dick, since it usually becomes one sided. However thanks to Damian being physically a small child, Deathroke can only wail on him so much to that point where it becomes disgusting. Which is probably why damian has been allowed to defeat him, or out maneuver slade.

this is
 still proably the best robin action i have seen in any book over the last ten years

----------


## adrikito

> Damian and Talia will most likely cross-over in the Deathstroke Inc./Robin event.


NOOOOO.. She is in this Deathstroke comic too??




> I kind of want deathstroke away from Damian, he been at that kids throat all of last decade


Poor Slade. Damian is his favorite Robin. hahahahahaaha

Also Damian is with Rose. He should appear in some point.

----------


## Jackalope89

> NOOOOO.. She is in this Deathstroke comic too??
> 
> 
> 
> Poor Slade. Damian is his favorite Robin. hahahahahaaha
> 
> Also Damian is with Rose. He should appear in some point.


Well, in a more light-hearted way, Damian and Slade could become in-laws depending on how the Jason/Rose thing goes.

----------


## adrikito

> It would have been nice if Gleb could have completed the arc, it makes compiliations nicer when its all consistent, But cruz is a great artist as well


I can understand you. I liked this taller Damian and how everything looks.. And he started it..




> It's to Damian's advantage that he has a connections and relationships that can be mined for interesting stories.
> 
> Bad/problematic Relationships can often be exploited for interesting plotlines more so than Good relationships.
> 
> I don't want Damian surrounded just by people he likes or that like him. That's now covered by The Wayne Family Adventures


Yeah... Because they are problematic like Talia case better limit them..




> Well, in a more light-hearted way, Damian and Slade could become in-laws depending on how the Jason/Rose thing goes.


I like Jason&Artemis but... Bat-characters are UNLUCKY with powerful girls.. 

Also Jason and Rose is interesting too

----------


## Rac7d*

> NOOOOO.. She is in this Deathstroke comic too??
> 
> 
> 
> Poor Slade. Damian is his favorite Robin. hahahahahaaha
> 
> Also Damian is with Rose. He should appear in some point.


Slade ignored his own children to harass others so her being around Damian works

----------


## adrikito

> Slade ignored his own children to harass others so her being around Damian works


Hahahaha. You are right.

Maybe for this I think that they work well as companions.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I can understand you. I liked this taller Damian and how everything looks.. And he started it..
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah... Because they are problematic like Talia case better limit them..
> 
> 
> 
> I like Jason&Artemis but... Bat-characters are UNLUCKY with powerful girls.. 
> ...


I like Jason and Artemis too (though chances of that happening again are incredibly slim), but Rose is like the 2nd most popular one DC likes to ship him with. Even if it is only in teases.

----------


## dietrich

> I like Jason and Artemis too (though chances of that happening again are incredibly slim), but Rose is like the 2nd most popular one DC likes to ship him with. Even if it is only in teases.


I like to think Jason and Rose might be dating on the downlow due to Robin#5 establishing they are in seemingly regular contact.

----------


## adrikito

> I like Jason and Artemis too (though chances of that happening again are incredibly slim), but Rose is like the 2nd most popular one DC likes to ship him with. Even if it is only in teases.


And SADLY I heard that even the writer was not interested in Artermis&Jason..


Anyway maybe thanks to PRIEST work I love Rose a Lot(happy to have her in Robin) and I like Jason&Rose SHIP.

----------


## Rac7d*

> I like Jason and Artemis too (though chances of that happening again are incredibly slim), but Rose is like the 2nd most popular one DC likes to ship him with. Even if it is only in teases.


they have been married in one continuity

----------


## adrikito

> they have been married in one continuity


In DCEASED one too.

----------


## dietrich

Adore this series.
Little details like Damian usually sitting at the head of the table next to Bruce but when Dick comes to visit he chooses to sit next to Dick

----------


## dietrich

Damian stans Nightwing





https://fudayk.tumblr.com/

----------


## Rac7d*

> Damian stans Nightwing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://fudayk.tumblr.com/


I have that sweatshirt !!!

----------


## Harryrun

Robin #6 preview

----------


## Restingvoice

BRUTALITY


FATALITY


Also, the brother of Blue Shrike that Nightwing defeated, simply called Shrike, but he's the second Shrike, the original Shrike was his mentor, defeated by Batman. Blue is the third Shrike.

----------


## adrikito

> Robin #6 preview


FINALLY.. It was a good decision come here thinking that I could be lucky


WOW.. I am not surprised that his Old master DUSK is dissapointed with Damian watching his talent to kill others.

Again we can think that Mother Soul is Talia mother..

----------


## CPSparkles

> Robin #6 preview


I appreciate Mother soul pointing out the difference between Damian and the others.

The others are taking their time because they enjoy it while Damian was fast. He isn't a thrill killer. this competition is a necessary step to his real mission on the island.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Adore this series.
> Little details like Damian usually sitting at the head of the table next to Bruce but when Dick comes to visit he chooses to sit next to Dick


I didn't even notice that. Good eye.

----------


## adrikito

> I appreciate Mother soul pointing out the difference between Damian and the others.


I liked that too.. He is not a sadic killer who enjoys making his enemies suffer.


SO. Damian fights ended.. I wonder what will happen next.. I was not expecting this.(his fights ended in the preview) Despite all the issue dedicated to fight without stop was unlikely too..

----------


## Morgoth

> SO. Damian fights ended.. I wonder what will happen next..


Probably rematch against Flatline, considering, that ending of this issue was already spoiled in solicits.

----------


## adrikito

> Probably rematch against Flatline, considering, that ending of this issue was already spoiled in solicits.


I do not know... He ended his current fight but.. The solicitation says this:




> To win his first round, Damian Wayne faces two times the danger and two times the trouble: it’s Ravager and Flatline versus Robin!


But the solicitation is maybe... Cheating me and maybe he will have problems with BOTH girls outside this tournament while he is preparing for the next round.


If not hoping that Flatline does not kill him a 2nd time *or will ruin the Mood*.. 

I prefer see Connor making it. In the fight against the Lazarus Devil is mentioned that Damian has only 1 remaining life.

----------


## Morgoth

More likely Respawn is going to be the one who kills him second time. Flatline is going to be his love interest and she already killed him, Rose is his friend, and there is set-up for Connor and Damian to become friends. Respawn is one of antagonists of this arc, so, I guess it's gonna be him.

----------


## adrikito

> More likely Respawn is going to be the one who kills him second time. Flatline is going to be his love interest and she already killed him, Rose is his friend, and there is set-up for Connor and Damian to become friends. Respawn is one of antagonists of this arc, so, I guess it's gonna be him.


MAYBE.. It would be the Best.

Is time to see character making something.. We are now more focused in Connor as Damian most serious rival when Connor is not a bad person as we saw.

Maybe Respawn is starting to move now.. He already killed Rose. Damian could be the next to make us take this enemy seriously as we make with Connor.

----------


## Rac7d*

> More likely Respawn is going to be the one who kills him second time. Flatline is going to be his love interest and she already killed him, Rose is his friend, and there is set-up for Connor and Damian to become friends. Respawn is one of antagonists of this arc, so, I guess it's gonna be him.


Respawn is for rose to deal with

----------


## km_sus

> Robin #6 preview


I'm curious how they're going to get rid of Constantine Drakon, considering he should be the most dangerous fighter there. Then again, I doubt Williamson cares lol

----------


## Rac7d*

Flatline is gonna best the girl who beat Richard dragon

That would put her on Cassandra Cain level

----------


## dietrich

> I'm curious how they're going to get rid of Constantine Drakon, considering he should be the most dangerous fighter there. Then again, I doubt Williamson cares lol


Easy. Have the kid with the entourage or any of the other new characters body him.
They are new so no established power level. We can't call Drakon the most dangerous fighter when there are characters we haven't seen fight.

I do agree that Williamson likely doesn't care that much since the tournament isn't the main story he's telling.

----------


## dietrich

> Flatline is gonna best the girl who beat Richard dragon


That also works .

----------


## dietrich

> I have that sweatshirt !!!


Wait, What! 

It's based on real world Nightwing Merch? That's dedication in fan art

----------


## adrikito

> Respawn is for rose to deal with


He provoked Damian in their first meeting. I highly doubt that they will ignore the other during the rest of this competition.

Anyway probably Rose is here for him.. When she said about not want the inmortality she was watching his fight.

----------


## adrikito

Even if Gleb leaves I think that we are in good hands with Roger Cruz:

Damian Wayne Robin 2021 Roger Cruz Sketch.jpg

----------


## Rac7d*

> He provoked Damian in their first meeting. I highly doubt that they will ignore the other during the rest of this competition.
> 
> Anyway probably Rose is here for him.. When she said about not want the inmortality she was watching his fight.


And he killed Rose while dresses in parody of her father, she is here looking for someone. 

Damian mostly being pitted up against Connor 
And there are several other upstarts gunning for him

----------


## adrikito

> And he killed Rose while dresses in parody of her father, she is here looking for someone. 
> 
> Damian mostly being pitted up against Connor 
> And there are several other upstarts gunning for him


Unless Williamson changed his mind I think that Respawn should make something important like Kill Damian.. 

Kill Rose only becames him in Rose enemy but he was even in one of serie preview covers but for now does not look enough important.. 

Also Respawn seems interested in Damian as enemy.. Maybe because is a Deathstroke fan and Damian a Robin.

----------


## dietrich

It occurs to me that even though we discussed Damian in the upcoming Injustice movie we didn't consider that after Injustice the next scheduled movie is Kingdom Come. Another Elseworld which has an alternate version of Damian, Ibn al Xu'ffasch [Son of the Bat] as a member of the Mankind Liberation Front and Batman's agent within Luthor's organisation.

Two alternate Damian's playing opposing roles in two else world stories.

----------


## dietrich

> Unless Williamson changed his mind I think that Respawn should make something important like Kill Damian.. 
> 
> Kill Rose only becames him in Rose enemy but he was even in one of serie preview covers but for now does not look enough important.. 
> 
> Also Respawn seems interested in Damian as enemy.. Maybe because is a Deathstroke fan and Damian a Robin.


I hope Respawn's narrative is mainly focused on Rose with his interest in Damian being a side issue. Although Giving Damian his own version of Deathstroke is a good way to build up his own personal lore and cast of characters.

Deathstroke is already established as TT, Dick and batman's foe This tournament has far too many Nightwing foe's. If DC keeps letting the Wayne's raid his villain store then what's going to be left for him?

I give much kudos to Williamson who has not only added originals to Damian's supporting cast but has promised a return of old favs like Maya.

I hope Respawn and Flatline stick around for the long term.

----------


## Morgoth

I guess Rose and Respawn will join Deathstroke Inc. cast after tournament ends.



> It occurs to me that even though we discussed Damian in the upcoming Injustice movie we didn't consider that after Injustice the next scheduled movie is Kingdom Come. Another Elseworld which has an alternate version of Damian, Ibn al Xu'ffasch [Son of the Bat] as a member of the Mankind Liberation Front and Batman's agent within Luthor's organisation.
> 
> Two alternate Damian's playing opposing roles in two else world stories.


Wait, there's going to be Kingdom Come movie?

----------


## dietrich

> Even if Gleb leaves I think that we are in good hands with Roger Cruz:
> 
> Attachment 114050


Nice work. Damian with a bo.

----------


## dietrich

> Wait, there's going to be Kingdom Come movie?


Yep it was announced at the same time as Injustice. It's the next animated movie after Injustice.

----------


## Rac7d*

> I hope Respawn's narrative is mainly focused on Rose with his interest in Damian being a side issue. Although Giving Damian his own version of Deathstroke is a good way to build up his own personal lore and cast of characters.
> 
> Deathstroke is already established as TT, Dick and batman's foe This tournament has far too many Nightwing foe's. If DC keeps letting the Wayne's raid his villain store then what's going to be left for him?
> 
> I give much kudos to Williamson who has not only added originals to Damian's supporting cast but has promised a return of old favs like Maya.
> 
> I hope Respawn and Flatline stick around for the long term.


Deathstroke hasn’t bother dick since pre flashpoint 
He’s been on Damians butt in comics and movies the last ten years

----------


## Restingvoice

> Deathstroke hasn’t bother dick since pre flashpoint 
> He’s been on Damians butt in comics and movies the last ten years


Phrasing! 

Well at least you didn't say "in"

----------


## adrikito

> It occurs to me that even though we discussed Damian in the upcoming Injustice movie we didn't consider that after Injustice the next scheduled movie is Kingdom Come. Another Elseworld which has an alternate version of Damian, Ibn al Xu'ffasch [Son of the Bat] as a member of the Mankind Liberation Front and Batman's agent within Luthor's organisation.
> 
> Two alternate Damian's playing opposing roles in two else world stories.


I heard about something about it so... There is a chance to see KC Damian??

I am more interested in this than Injustice I Damian.. This film will not be too nice with him.




> I hope Respawn's narrative is mainly focused on Rose with his interest in Damian being a side issue. Although Giving Damian his own version of Deathstroke is a good way to build up his own personal lore and cast of characters.
> 
> Deathstroke is already established as TT, Dick and batman's foe This tournament has far too many Nightwing foe's. If DC keeps letting the Wayne's raid his villain store then what's going to be left for him?
> 
> I give much kudos to Williamson who has not only added originals to Damian's supporting cast but has promised a return of old favs like Maya.
> 
> I hope Respawn and Flatline stick around for the long term.


This tournament and watch Batman 666 recently defeating villains made me interested in Damian obtaining *his own villains.*.

-*Respawn* who is one Deathstroke Guy like as Damian villain would be interesting. 
-*Flatline* can end as some kind of Ex-Ship who turns in the character villain after this run. Style Catwoman or Talia..

----------


## L.H.

> Deathstroke hasnt bother dick since pre flashpoint


Well, that's not true. When Joker went to ask Slade to join him against Batman, just before Joker War (Batman Secret Files #3) he promised him Dick's share of Wayne's fortune. That was the reason why Slade joined him.

----------


## Eckri

> I hope Respawn's narrative is mainly focused on Rose with his interest in Damian being a side issue. Although Giving Damian his own version of Deathstroke is a good way to build up his own personal lore and cast of characters.
> 
> Deathstroke is already established as TT, Dick and batman's foe This tournament has far too many Nightwing foe's. If DC keeps letting the Wayne's raid his villain store then what's going to be left for him?
> 
> I give much kudos to Williamson who has not only added originals to Damian's supporting cast but has promised a return of old favs like Maya.
> 
> I hope Respawn and Flatline stick around for the long term.



Speaking of adding to Damian's cast, with the inclusion of Connor and Flatline added to his cast I was thinking, since you know, Roy Harper's daughter now currently called Lian _Shoes_ Harper is under the wing of Catwoman. You think a team-up of two might be possible, like they both existed Pre-New 52 style, and getting the Pre-New 52 Generation to finally team-up might be something. If we're including Wally West's kids then, oh boy that's a team-up I'm willing to see.

Imagine Damian, Lian, and the West twins all hanging out while Dick, Roy, and Wally watch.

----------


## Eckri

> I guess Rose and Respawn will join Deathstroke Inc. cast after tournament ends.
> 
> 
> Wait, there's going to be Kingdom Come movie?





> Yep it was announced at the same time as Injustice. It's the next animated movie after Injustice.


Finally, Kingdom Come gets a proper animated movie it deserves.

----------


## adrikito

> Speaking of adding to Damian's cast, with the inclusion of Connor and Flatline added to his cast I was thinking, since you know, Roy Harper's daughter now currently called Lian _Shoes_ Harper is under the wing of Catwoman. You think a team-up of two might be possible, like they both existed Pre-New 52 style, and getting the Pre-New 52 Generation to finally team-up might be something. If we're including Wally West's kids then, oh boy that's a team-up I'm willing to see.
> 
> Imagine Damian, Lian, and the West twins all hanging out while Dick, Roy, and Wally watch.


The girl that I heard that is like CATWOMAN Robin is Roy daughter??? Wow..

Damian knows the Red Arrow Emiko.. I can not see it.

----------


## Morgoth

> Speaking of adding to Damian's cast, with the inclusion of Connor and Flatline added to his cast I was thinking, since you know, Roy Harper's daughter now currently called Lian _Shoes_ Harper is under the wing of Catwoman. You think a team-up of two might be possible, like they both existed Pre-New 52 style, and getting the Pre-New 52 Generation to finally team-up might be something. If we're including Wally West's kids then, oh boy that's a team-up I'm willing to see.
> 
> Imagine Damian, Lian, and the West twins all hanging out while Dick, Roy, and Wally watch.


It sounds like that pre-New 52 Young Justice pitch.



> Yep it was announced at the same time as Injustice. It's the next animated movie after Injustice.


There was announcement? I just can't find it.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Well, that's not true. When Joker went to ask Slade to join him against Batman, just before Joker War (Batman Secret Files #3) he promised him Dick's share of Wayne's fortune. That was the reason why Slade joined him.


I’m just saying he has consistently been an adversary for Damian more
so. Did Slade and Dick actually confront each other in that arc

----------


## Restingvoice

> I’m just saying he has consistently been an adversary for Damian more
> so. Did Slade and Dick actually confront each other in that arc


He was amnesia. Their only confrontation Post Flashpoint as far as I remember was Lazarus Contract, both present and flashback.

----------


## Rac7d*

> He was amnesia. Their only confrontation Post Flashpoint as far as I remember was Lazarus Contract, both present and flashback.


Even then Robin was showing the most animosity directly for slade due to previous run ins. 
This followed up in Teen Titans , then again batman vs deathstroke

----------


## L.H.

> Even then Robin was showing the most animosity directly for slade due to previous run ins. 
> This followed up in Teen Titans , then again batman vs deathstroke


Priest himself wrote that he wanted both Dick and Damian in his Defiance team. Also, he said that he had a kind of editorial mandate to use Damian instead of Dick in his run. 
Still, he wrote about the deal between Dick and Slade, and showed us Dick training Rose. 
DiDio did everything he could (even with Tim, back then) to made meaningless their rivalry and putting Damian instead of Dick, but in others media things were different.
Tynion acknowledging their rivalry again in comics can be a sign that things will be different after Infinite Frontier.

Also, in Titans: Future State Dick has Deathstroke mask, and the dialogues between him and Kori made clear that they're going to meet again and probably work together, probably in Teen Titans Academy

----------


## Rac7d*

> Priest himself wrote that he wanted both Dick and Damian in his Defiance team. Also, he said that he had a kind of editorial mandate to use Damian instead of Dick in his run. 
> Still, he wrote about the deal between Dick and Slade, and showed us Dick training Rose. 
> DiDio did everything he could (even with Tim, back then) to made meaningless their rivalry and putting Damian instead of Dick, but in others media things were different.
> Tynion acknowledging their rivalry again in comics can be a sign that things will be different after Infinite Frontier.
> 
> Also, in Titans: Future State Dick has Deathstroke mask, and the dialogues between him and Kori made clear that they're going to meet again and probably work together, probably in Teen Titans Academy



It is what it is.
Glad they didn’t end up in defiance. Did the editorial mandate include the films too. It’s not so much their rivalry made meaningless but For Deathstroke to elevate himself to A status meant him going after the big bad bat instead. The only persona he bothered more then Damian was Bruce.



Teen titans academy is awfully, and with Sheridan leaving who knows what direction it will go in.

----------


## L.H.

> It is what it is.
> Glad they didn’t end up in defiance. Did the editorial mandate include the films too. It’s not so much their rivalry made meaningless but For Deathstroke to elevate himself to A status meant him going after the big bad bat instead. The only persona he bothered more then Damian was Bruce.
> 
> Teen titans academy is awfully, and with Sheridan leaving who knows what direction it will go in.


Ok, if you think Deathstroke is elevating himself, that's it. 

I was just pointing out what really happened, 'cause you said he didn't bother Dick for ten years, but I think stealing money still counts as bothering and being animous, you know. Also, making a deal and choosing him to train your daughter has to mean something.

I get you don't like Teen Titans Academy, but this doesn't change what already happened in Future State. 
I don't like DCAU, but I don't erase it just to prove my point. 
And in Lazarus Contract Slade was what he is, a Titans enemy, not a Damian's villain.

Still, you forgot others media, like TV series, live action or not, where Slade is still a Titans villain (even in Young Justice he is working against  the Team), as he was in The Judas Contract movie, Titans, and even Teen Titans Go! (but I bet you don't like it, so it doesn't count).

That said, do you think he is better as a Batman's villain? Good for you. But this doesn't change who Slade really is.

----------


## dietrich

> Priest himself wrote that he wanted both Dick and Damian in his Defiance team. Also, he said that he had a kind of editorial mandate to use Damian instead of Dick in his run. 
> Still, he wrote about the deal between Dick and Slade, and showed us Dick training Rose. 
> DiDio did everything he could (even with Tim, back then) to made meaningless their rivalry and putting Damian instead of Dick, but in others media things were different.
> Tynion acknowledging their rivalry again in comics can be a sign that things will be different after Infinite Frontier.
> 
> Also, in Titans: Future State Dick has Deathstroke mask, and the dialogues between him and Kori made clear that they're going to meet again and probably work together, probably in Teen Titans Academy


No Priest himself never said either of those.

What he said was that Damian was off limits due to editorial being worried that he was becoming over exposed. That was why he couldn't use Damian in Defiance [this was also echo by Orlando]

He said he had to fight to be allowed to use Damian at all with various pitches rejected.

He said he was was forced to change his draft of Judas contract a few times because editorial wasn't happy with his Damian.

he said some derogatory things about Dick. Said he was boring and white bread.

It was nothing to do with Didio
It was nothing to do with an editorial mandate that forced him to use Damian and not include Dick. The opposite is actually true.

Priest was obsessed with Damian and had no interest in Dick. Editorial had to reign him in and keep him away from Damian

At the time when Judas contract came out we discussed his thoughts on Nightwing extensively on this very site. and on Priest's blog

https://lamerciepark.com/wp/

The above blog is Priest's personal Blog that detail everything about his Deathstroke run and more. He goes into detail on Dick, Damian as Characters 
his Plans for Defiance and why he couldn't have Damian in on the team
He talks about Judas contract and he also talks about the restrictions and ban that editorial put on using Damian.

It's the source of all the information coted in this comment.

Fans having been using didio as a fall guy and scapegoat for time now. The dude had nothing to do with this.

----------


## dietrich

> Ok, if you think Deathstroke is elevating himself, that's it. 
> 
> I was just pointing out what really happened, 'cause you said he didn't bother Dick for ten years, but I think stealing money still counts as bothering and being animous, you know. Also, making a deal and choosing him to train your daughter has to mean something.
> 
> I get you don't like Teen Titans Academy, but this doesn't change what already happened in Future State. 
> I don't like DCAU, but I don't erase it just to prove my point. 
> And in Lazarus Contract Slade was what he is, a Titans enemy, not a Damian's villain.
> 
> Still, you forgot others media, like TV series, live action or not, where Slade is still a Titans villain (even in Young Justice he is working against  the Team), as he was in The Judas Contract movie, Titans, and even Teen Titans Go! (but I bet you don't like it, so it doesn't count).
> ...


My guy that isn't what happened. You are making assumptions. Incorrect assumptions. We know for fact what happened [at least for the time period when Priest was on deathstroke] he told us.

There has been this trend of having Slade arch Bruce and Damian since before Son of Batman [in Damian's case]

I will admit that I enjoy their interactions and dynamic however as a Dick Grayson fan whose upset at writers giving away all his decent foes [Raptor, Pyg, COO etc] I'd rather Slade be left arching Dick and the Titans. His OG foes

----------


## L.H.

> My guy that isn't what happened. You are making assumptions. Incorrect assumptions. We know for fact what happened [at least for the time period when Priest was on deathstroke] he told us


What didn't happened? I get I can misremember what Priest wrote, and I apologize about that, but Batman Secret Files #3 still happened, Dick training Rose happened in Priest's Deathstroke, as much as Future State and Lazarus Contract.

So DiDio wasn't the one who planned New52? Erasing the Titans from history?

----------


## Lal

> What didn't happened? I get I can misremember what Priest wrote, and I apologize about ithat, but Batman Secret Files #3 still happened, Dick training Rose happened in Priest's Deathstroke, as much as Future State and Lazarus Contract.
> 
> So DiDio wasn't the one who planned New52? Erasing the Titans from history?


It was Higgins who wanted to do a Nightwing-Deathstroke crossover - 
https://www.cbr.com/higgins-takes-ni...-to-his-roots/

I also think that lately it seems like the Nightwing-Deathstroke connection became a thing again.
Dick wore Deathstroke's mask in future state and was accused of sounding and behaving like him. In the present TTA, Dick's past as Red X and his fight with Deathstroke is now canon, and the fact that Deathstroke agreed to go to Gotham just to get Nightwing's share of the money suggests that they have a past rivalry.

All those things kind of add up.  They didn't even meet lately, but all those references remind us that the rivalry/connection is there.

It makes sense that if Priest didn't like Dick, their relationship wasn't really explored as long as he got to wrote Deathstroke, but now with Williamson, we may see more of it.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Ok, if you think Deathstroke is elevating himself, that's it. 
> 
> I was just pointing out what really happened, 'cause you said he didn't bother Dick for ten years, but I think stealing money still counts as bothering and being animus, you know. Also, making a deal and choosing him to train your daughter has to mean something.
> 
> I get you don't like Teen Titans Academy, but this doesn't change what already happened in Future State. 
> I don't like DCAU, but I don't erase it just to prove my point. 
> And in Lazarus Contract Slade was what he is, a Titans enemy, not a Damian's villain.
> 
> Still, you forgot others media, like TV series, live action or not, where Slade is still a Titans villain (even in Young Justice he is working against  the Team), as he was in The Judas Contract movie, Titans, and even Teen Titans Go! (but I bet you don't like it, so it doesn't count).
> ...


Well If Dick was Rick then its not truly an interaction, he never approached him did he. Their last interaction of any meaning was lazarus contract.
https://community.cbr.com/showthread...oke-Archrivals I made a thread few years ago that compiled all there interactions over the last decade.

Yes Deathroke did have nightwing work with rose but that's a story from before new52. Future state is subject change, nothing is set in stone with that. Deathstroke has yet to appear or prove any connection to the current redX. I am not erasing anything, I just saying nothing has come to fruition. Did slade himself appear in that future state issue?

As far as other media goes, Slade was more focused on Damian  in his two appearances then he was dick Grayson. They let Damian defeat slade whereas, he mocked and brushed grayson aside. Titans did have a great portrayal of the terminator, they got his madness just right, I love the show but the route it took to get Dick to nightwing for the final battle with Slade gave me a headache,

Its not about what I like it about what happened. I know when we think of Nightwing's rouges gallery the first one we want to name is Deathstroke, but the truth is they dont interact enough. He is either the protagonist of his own story or he's an antagonist for bruce and as of the last decade Damian. He has more or less ascended as breakout chracter leaving most of the titans in the dust.   He is once again about to get his own book. Perhaps the titans or Nightwing will appear. I doubt it. Deathstorke had a whole series where he just fought A listers in the DCuniverse, Wonder Woman, Superman, Batman, Harley Quinn even RedHood, but not Nightwing.  


 Mabey that will change in the future but for now , it is what it is.

----------


## Lal

> Well If Dick was Rick then its not truly an interaction, he never approached him did he. Their last interaction of any meaning was lazarus contract.
> https://community.cbr.com/showthread...oke-Archrivals I made a thread few years ago that compiled all there interactions over the last decade.
> 
> Yes Deathroke did have nightwing work with rose but that's a story from before new52. Future state is subject change, nothing is set in stone with that. Deathstroke has yet to appear or prove any connection to the current redX. I am not erasing anything, I just saying nothing has come to fruition. Did slade himself appear in that future state issue?
> 
> As far as other media goes, Slade was more focused on Damian  in his two appearances then he was dick Grayson. They let Damian defeat slade whereas, he mocked and brushed grayson aside. Titans did have a great portrayal of the terminator, they got his madness just right, I love the show but the route it took to get Dick to nightwing for the final battle with Slade gave me a headache,
> 
> Its not about what I like it about what happened. I know when we think of Nightwing's rouges gallery the first one we want to name is Deathstroke, but the truth is they dont interact enough. He is either the protagonist of his own story or he's an antagonist for bruce and as of the last decade Damian. He has more or less ascended as breakout chracter leaving most of the titans in the dust.   He is once again about to get his own book. Perhaps the titans or Nightwing will appear. I doubt it. Deathstorke had a whole series where he just fought A listers in the DCuniverse, Wonder Woman, Superman, Batman, Harley Quinn even RedHood, but not Nightwing.  
>  Mabey that will change in the future but for now , it is what it is.


There's no doubt that the Damian-Deathstroke connection was highly emphasized during the Rebirth era, but I think we also see now an acknowledgment of the Nightwing-Deathstroke rivalry as well.

The Dick-Deathstoke connection when Dick was Red X was recently confirmed in TTA 1 (not future state), so it's now canon. 
So now they have history both when Nightwing was Red X and when he was Renegade and trained Rose.

I think that in Batman Urban legends 6, the prelude to Deathstroke 1, we see Talia watching screens showing Black Canary and someone who looks like Nightwing. It could be a complete coincidence, or it could mean something. Too soon to tell (unless it looks to you like someone else?)

I actually think it would be interesting to see Deathstroke as an adversary to both Nightwing and Robin. I can see them both being super protective of each other and going all "stay away from my brother".


nightwiing slade.jpgtalia nightwing.jpg

----------


## Rac7d*

> There's no doubt that the Damian-Deathstroke connection was highly emphasized during the Rebirth era, but I think we also see now an acknowledgment of the Nightwing-Deathstroke rivalry as well.
> 
> The Dick-Deathstoke connection when Dick was Red X was recently confirmed in TTA 1 (not future state), so it's now canon. 
> So now they have history both when Nightwing was Red X and when he was Renegade and trained Rose.
> 
> I think that in Batman Urban legends 6, the prelude to Deathstroke 1, we see Talia watching screens showing Black Canary and someone who looks like Nightwing. It could be a complete coincidence, or it could mean something. Too soon to tell (unless it looks to you like someone else?)
> 
> I actually think it would be interesting to see Deathstroke as an adversary to both Nightwing and Robin. I can see them both being super protective of each other and going all "stay away from my brother".
> 
> ...



Sure its acknowledged, but as a past event.  I was never saying its not cannon but I am fine saying any idea of them being nemesis's would be false. They are not relevant in each other stories.  As i mentioned Deathroke Inc will be starting this week.  I feel its far more likely we see future robin issue, crossover with that book since rose is the closest person we have to a deuteragonist in that book.                     I for one would actully like Deathroke to stay away from Nightwing and Robin


It was brave of DC to do this after trying to scrub it from his history, in fact its probably best Sydner version of JL did not proceed, because this would have certainly blown up

----------


## Fergus

Thanks to other media and recent stories, Deathstroke has drifted from a Teen Titans villain to Damian and Batman villain.

The animated movies which made Slade's rivalry with Damian personal and the DCEU which promoted and teased Deathstroke as Batman's Foe.

The TtGO! Movie did push the Deathstroke Terminator v TT's rivalry.

The Dick Slade Rivalry was highlighted in Judas Contract by Priest but his whole Slade really loves Damian and push to have Damian be Slades Kid undermined what ever he did restabilising the Dick and Slade Rivalry.

It made Slade's interest in Damian different from his usual interest in Robin. A member of the Teen titan's.

Everyone seems to have forgotten Renegade.

Slade right now is a DCU villain.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Thanks to other media and recent stories, Deathstroke has drifted from a Teen Titans villain to Damian and Batman villain.
> 
> The animated movies which made Slade's rivalry with Damian personal and the DCEU which promoted and teased Deathstroke as Batman's Foe.
> 
> The TtGO! Movie did push the Deathstroke Terminator v TT's rivalry.
> 
> The Dick Slade Rivalry was highlighted in Judas Contract by Priest but his whole Slade really loves Damian and push to have Damian be Slades Kid undermined what ever he did restabilising the Dick and Slade Rivalry.
> 
> It made Slade's interest in Damian different from his usual interest in Robin. A member of the Teen titan's.
> ...


People have their favorite characters, and some lucky few get the chance to write them. And that's fine. 

But Priest pushing the whole "Damian is Slade's son!" crap when Slade is already a terrible dad to 3 kids, was pretty bad.

----------


## Morgoth

Priest liked to see Damian more like anti-hero persona, I guess that was the reason, why he wanted to do it this way.

----------


## dietrich

> What didn't happened? I get I can misremember what Priest wrote, and I apologize about that, but Batman Secret Files #3 still happened, Dick training Rose happened in Priest's Deathstroke, as much as Future State and Lazarus Contract.
> 
> So DiDio wasn't the one who planned New52? Erasing the Titans from history?


The behind the scenes stuff about there being an editorial mandate re Priesr using Dick and events that lead to Slade and Dick getting distanced. Those are assumptions.

----------


## L.H.

> Well
> 
> Yes Deathstroke did have nightwing work with rose but that's a story from before new52. Future state is subject change, nothing is set in stone with that. Deathstroke has yet to appear or prove any connection to the current redX. I am not erasing anything, I just saying nothing has come to fruition. Did slade himself appear in that future state issue?


He didn't appear, but Dick said he didn't work with him in months, so it means they worked together before.

I'm not trying to prove that Slade is a Nightwing villain, I've always seen him more as a Titans Villain. I'm pointing out that things are different.

In New 52 era, the Titans were erased, that's why they didn't had any interaction until Lazarus Contract. Still, Slade didn't really fought against them in that fake past, because of the deal he made with Dick (which included Dick training Rose, so that happened in Rebirth too). 
Right now, the true past is restored. We're going to see what will happen in Infinite Frontier.

----------


## dietrich

> I guess Rose and Respawn will join Deathstroke Inc. cast after tournament ends.
> 
> 
> Wait, there's going to be Kingdom Come movie?


Disregard this since I believe I might have fallen for trolling. Can't find any supporting info for a Kingdom Come movie

----------


## L.H.

> The behind the scenes stuff about there being an editorial mandate re Priesr using Dick and events that lead to Slade and Dick getting distanced. Those are assumptions.


Yeah, I was wrong and I apologize again for that.

----------


## Drako

Next Teen Titans graphic novel by Kami Garcia and Gabriel Picolo is about Dick and Damian as Robins.

----------


## Jackalope89

Yeah, not sure how to feel about that.

----------


## Blue22

I love what these books have already done for Beast Boy and Raven so consider me on board the hype train for this.

----------


## Rac7d*

> I love what these books have already done for Beast Boy and Raven so consider me on board the hype train for this.


What has it done for them?

----------


## Blue22

> What has it done for them?


Given them both solo stories that I've immensely enjoyed. I've been a big fan of them both since I was a kid and haven't really....enjoyed a lot of their recent outings in the mainline books. So finding two stories that I really liked, even if they were alternate takes on the characters, with an artist whose Teen Titans work I am SUPER into...the whole thing's been a win for me lol

----------


## Lal

> What has it done for them?


Those books are also New York Times bestsellers and sell very well. 
They are supposed to expose YA who don't usually read comics to DC characters (in this case, Titans characters).
That's great exposure.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Next Teen Titans graphic novel by Kami Garcia and Gabriel Picolo is about Dick and Damian as Robins.


I've wanted a Dick and Damian Book since B&R ended. This is it I guess. I would have preferred a title that embraces their time as batman and Robin and the special bond they developed.

This is probably going to give us the duo as brothers which is more than Dick and Damian are.

Does Dick transition into nightwing in this? Is that why we have two Robins?
It this DC's way of telling new readers that there's more than one? I mean currently we have a multitude of Robins out there. Jason and Steph are the only ones who aren't Robin somewhere right now.

Dick, Damian, Duke and tim are all Robins currently.

This is definite pull.

----------


## HsssH

> Given them both solo stories that I've immensely enjoyed. I've been a big fan of them both since I was a kid and haven't really....enjoyed a lot of their recent outings in the mainline books. So finding two stories that I really liked, even if they were alternate takes on the characters, with an artist whose Teen Titans work I am SUPER into...the whole thing's been a win for me lol


Are they suitable for people who are not young adults?  :Big Grin:  I'm in early 30s and I wonder if I'd enjoy them at all since I'm not a big fan of teen romance stories.

----------


## CPSparkles

He's such a little shit



https://gotham-gargoyle.tumblr.com

----------


## CPSparkles

> Are they suitable for people who are not young adults?  I'm in early 30s and I wonder if I'd enjoy them at all since I'm not a big fan of teen romance stories.


I'm in my 30's and i enjoyed them especially Raven's. The Romance wasn't a big feature of that Title.

----------


## Lal

The writer confirmed that the inclsuion of Damian wasn't part of a DC mandate and that this book is connected to the "Beast boy loves Raven" book.

damian robin.jpg

----------


## Konja7

> I'm in my 30's and i enjoyed them especially Raven's. The Romance wasn't a big feature of that Title.


I would say that you have to like teen drama (I like it), because there is a good amount of that in this books.

Also, I suspect "Beast Boys loves Raven" book will be strong in the romance aspect.

----------


## Morgoth

There was a teaser of upcoming Robin/Slade crossover at the end of the first issue of Deathstroke Inc.

----------


## adrikito

About Robin 6..

*spoilers:*
If that is Flatline only *Ultimate Move* is scary..
Damian liked Black Swan way to move. 
Is obviously a japanese manga.. The girl has Green hair.(Impossible hair color). XXL Stole it. Not surprised about it when he looks like a Younger version of current Damian(and is a KID) in some things and was who made fun of him in the party.
Flatline is some kind of Metahuman. I though that her origin would be revealed in the annual.
The League of Shadows is... really evil Connor is saying that is taking a Great risk appearing here with Damian. 
Funny. Connor almost killed him and Damian saved him from a terrible attack the opposite.

About RESPAWN
OK. You are evil(without friends) and don´t care about kill anyone we understand it. But finally Respawn is making something.
*Weird talk like if he hated Damian all his life.. One old member of the LEAGUE? PLEASE. No more clones
*FUNNY. Damian talks about stole the book and uses Respawn attack as one excuse to steal Mother Sould book and... What we have imaginated is probably true..
*end of spoilers*



*What a TROLL the Alfred Ghost..* It seems that Flatline can see him too.

----------


## Morgoth

Alright, at this point it's obvious, that *spoilers:*
Mother Soul is Damian's grandmom.
*end of spoilers*
Flatline powers are actually pretty strong, she can be real pain the ass. And yeah, for some reason it feels absolutely normal that Damian's first love interest will be someone tricky and dangerous, Damian is really Bruce's son, lol.

----------


## adrikito

Yeah... I am sure that many suspected this since the begin

Hoping that Respawn *spoilers:*
is only a simple ex-member of the League who disliked Damian.. Not interested in another clone.
*end of spoilers*

So.. The kiss thing will be in Robin 7.. In part it makes sense because is the Only that the solicitation mentioned.


*I think that I am not wrong and we saw IN THE LAST IMAGE how will be Damian 2nd death in this Tournament. He is with the guard down.*

----------


## HsssH

Yes, he should be dead after that last panel.

I'm not really fond that final 8 has many new characters. I'd care way more about Raptor or Jiro being there than about a character like XXL who has yet to show anything interesting. Respawn and Swan aren't clicking with me either.

----------


## Restingvoice

> There was a teaser of upcoming Robin/Slade crossover at the end of the first issue of Deathstroke Inc.


It's already out?

Well, Williamson said they're going to connect.

----------


## adrikito

> It's already out?
> 
> Well, Williamson said they're going to connect.


The 1st issue was about Slade and Black Canary... Damian appeared in only 1 image(after the issue ending) with other Deathstroke Inc Future situations.

----------


## adrikito

> Yes, he should be dead after that last panel.
> 
> I'm not really fond that final 8 has many new characters. I'd care way more about Raptor or Jiro being there than about a character like XXL who has yet to show anything interesting. Respawn and Swan aren't clicking with me either.


Yes. BETTER than use the poor Connor to kill him. He already defeated Damian. That is enough.

The important ones are the small group that has been talking with Damian today(Flatline, Rose, Connor). The rest does not matter. We will probably not see them anymore.

I have some interest in Black Swan but.. Is a waste of time.

About Respawn his interest in Damian can be the character doom and be another Damian clone or one ex-member of the league in similar age.
*spoilers:*
He even enjoyed see Flatline killing Damian for who knows which reasons.. Probably something that I mentioned above.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Morgoth

I don't think Respawn is a clone, but I have a feeling that he has some big and pretty weird connection with Damian, like, he's Slade and Talia son (Priest says hi), or something like that. And it would explain his hatred towards both Damian and Rose.
I hope it's not the case.

----------


## Rac7d*

> There was a teaser of upcoming Robin/Slade crossover at the end of the first issue of Deathstroke Inc.


I expected as much

----------


## adrikito

> I don't think Respawn is a clone, but I have a feeling that he has some big and pretty weird connection with Damian, like, he's Slade and Talia son (Priest says hi), or something like that. And it would explain his hatred towards both Damian and Rose.
> I hope it's not the case.


Now that you mention it... He is obsessed with Slade too(as fan) and even attacked Rose who was watching him in Robin 2.

If this happen Rose will be part of Damian family without marry Jason.. HAHAHAHAHA.

Anyway. With Athanasia case I am not too much interested in this but... Respawn could end as one forgotten character in the future.. He can still be *ANOTHER DAMIAN COUSIN* like Mara who liked deathstroke.

----------


## HsssH

> I don't think Respawn is a clone, but I have a feeling that he has some big and pretty weird connection with Damian, like, he's Slade and Talia son (Priest says hi), or something like that. And it would explain his hatred towards both Damian and Rose.
> I hope it's not the case.


But with Williamson writing this and Deathstroke it sounds very likely that this is the direction. Very unfortunate.

----------


## adrikito

> But with Williamson writing this and Deathstroke it sounds very likely that this is the direction. Very unfortunate.


Damnit... I did not liked see Damian having a sister in Injustice and maybe I will receive something similar here. The people will complain less about PRIEST if this happens.

That Talia.. Always creating problems to her son.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Damnit... I did not liked see Damian having a sister in Injustice and maybe I will receive something similar here. The people will complain less about PRIEST if this happens.
> 
> That Talia.. Always creating problems to her son.


The sexism.

Talia isn't the only one who creates problems for Damian.
Would you like Damian better if he had zero problems?

----------


## Rac7d*

> Damnit... I did not liked see Damian having a sister in Injustice and maybe I will receive something similar here. The people will complain less about PRIEST if this happens.
> 
> That Talia.. Always creating problems to her son.


Here I was waiting for pregnant catwoman

----------


## Harryrun

> Damnit... I did not liked see Damian having a sister in Injustice and maybe I will receive something similar here. The people will complain less about PRIEST if this happens.
> 
> That Talia.. Always creating problems to her son.


All the problem that Talia created was trying to get her son back, even when he died it was out of her control. People seem to forget that Bruce was willing to give him to Talia so that she can leave Gotham alone rather than fighting for both the city and his son, he chose to give him up. Non of his parents are saints but Bruce is the only neglectful parent here and the reason for many of Damian problems if not most of them not Talia.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Here I was waiting for pregnant catwoman



Catwoman did get pregnant and had a baby who then grew up into an adult twice in the last years [catwoman by King and bat/cat by King]

----------


## Drako

I really hope Respawn isn't the son of Slade and Talia. I wish i never see any of the plans that Priest had for Damian being revisited.

Also, can you image Talia choosing Bruce as the father of her child, who is not the best father around and then going from that to Slade for her next one? Slade, maybe the worst father in the whole DCU? Talking about bad decisions!

----------


## CPSparkles

> All the problem that Talia created was trying to get her son back, even when he died it was out of her control. People seem to forget that Bruce was willing to give him to Talia so that she can leave Gotham alone rather than fighting for both the city and his son, he chose to give him up. Non of his parents are saints but Bruce is the only neglectful parent here and the reason for many of Damian problems if not most of them not Talia.


thank You.

----------


## The tall man

> All the problem that Talia created was trying to get her son back, even when he died it was out of her control. People seem to forget that Bruce was willing to give him to Talia so that she can leave Gotham alone rather than fighting for both the city and his son, he chose to give him up. Non of his parents are saints but Bruce is the only neglectful parent here and the reason for many of Damian problems if not most of them not Talia.


Yeah Bruce is such a bad parent that he did everything in his power to bring Damian back to life. I mean when Talia is considered the better parent it just shows the disdain so  many have for Bruce. If Bruce is so bad a parent why the vehement opposition to changing Damian's parentage? If Bruce is the cause of all of Damian's problems then server that connection, surely that would be the best thing for Damian right? All his "Bruce" problems gone. But the fans don't want that do they, I wonder why.

----------


## Jackalope89

> *Yeah Bruce is such a bad parent that he did everything in his power to bring Damian back to life.* I mean when Talia is considered the better parent it just shows the disdain so  many have for Bruce. If Bruce is so bad a parent why the vehement opposition to changing Damian's parentage? If Bruce is the cause of all of Damian's problems then server that connection, surely that would be the best thing for Damian right? All his "Bruce" problems gone. But the fans don't want that do they, I wonder why.


Including tricking another son into going to the place he died to purposefully trigger his PTSD...

----------


## Konja7

> All the problem that Talia created was trying to get her son back, even when he died it was out of her control. People seem to forget that Bruce was willing to give him to Talia so that she can leave Gotham alone rather than fighting for both the city and his son, he chose to give him up. Non of his parents are saints but Bruce is the only neglectful parent here and the reason for many of Damian problems if not most of them not Talia.


Talia put a price on Damian's head and created a clone as Damian's replacement. Maybe she doesn't really expected Damian to die, but she really pushed the situation to that point.

Also, if I remember correctly, Bruce returned Damian to Talia after Damian killed someone (and hurt Tim very badly). In fact, Bruce wanted to let Talia and Damian escape from the justice.

After that, the explosion happened and Bruce didn't even know if Talia and Damian were alive.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Yeah Bruce is such a bad parent that he did everything in his power to bring Damian back to life. I mean when Talia is considered the better parent it just shows the disdain so  many have for Bruce. If Bruce is so bad a parent why the vehement opposition to changing Damian's parentage? If Bruce is the cause of all of Damian's problems then server that connection, surely that would be the best thing for Damian right? All his "Bruce" problems gone. But the fans don't want that do they, I wonder why.


Sever the connection is one way another way is stop Bruce being a dick to his kids.

Even if Damian didn't exist Bruce will still be a shitty parent because news flash Bruce is a douche to Dick, Jason and Tim.

Like Jackalope just said he was such a caring parent that he traumatised Jason to bring Damian back.
He beat the shit out of Jason in RHAtO
He abused Dick for decades
He hit  Tim simply for wanting to help him and he happily let a 13 yr old Tim believe he was responsible for his mental health.

None of those have anything to do with Damian.

Being connected to the batman franchise has it's perks and being Robin has it's but that doesn't mean that fans will shut up and swallow the negative of Bruce's behaviour

Any character that smacks kids as a form of communication is a douche bag and deserves to be dragged. Hard.

You have a problem with Damian rather than being a dick why don't you read the many titles with bruce that don't have damian and stop lurking on forums searching for Damian related posts to get irate over and post the same comment over.

Yes Damian benefits from Bruce's connection. What other talking point do you have?
As a Batman and batfamily fan even before Damian was a thing bruce was already a shitty parent

----------


## AmiMizuno

This is why many people want Dick to adopted Damian because of how terrible of a parent Bruce is. And that Dick should cut Bruce out of his life but  in many ways all the Batkids are codependent. In many ways Dick can get out of Bruce's shadow but sadly he is the only one Bruce will listen to. None of the other kids can have Bruce listen to. So if not for the others I feel like Dick would have left Bruce alone

----------


## Blue22

Momentarily steering the conversation away from Damian's shitty parents (Yes. Plural. They both suck.)

He has a *way* bigger role in the Beast Boy and Raven book than I thought he would. And, as far as alternate character takes go, he's actually pretty damn great. The book itself was already really enjoyable, but seeing him as a supporting character, as set up for his and Dick's book, was a nice surprise.

----------


## CPSparkles

> This is why many people want Dick to adopted Damian because of how terrible of a parent Bruce is. And that Dick should cut Bruce out of his life but  in many ways all the Batkids are codependent. In many ways Dick can get out of Bruce's shadow but sadly he is the only one Bruce will listen to. None of the other kids can have Bruce listen to. So if not for the others I feel like Dick would have left Bruce alone


Dick can't adopt Damian. In real life that would be an option but in this fictional world where they are all devices to advance bruce's story it won't happen.

If Tom king can shoot Dick in the head, Derail the nightwing and Titans titles for over a years just for one issue plot pay off in Batman's title then even Dick adopting Damian won't make a difference aside from make things worse for Dick and the nightwing title.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Momentarily steering the conversation away from Damian's shitty parents (Yes. Plural. They both suck.)
> 
> He has a *way* bigger role in the Beast Boy and Raven book than I thought he would. And, as far as alternate character takes go, he's actually pretty damn great. The book itself was already really enjoyable, but seeing him as a supporting character, as set up for his and Dick's book, was a nice surprise.


So Kami knows what she's doing unlike Ridley on Supersons

----------


## Konja7

> So Kami knows what she's doing unlike Ridley on Supersons


Well, Damian has a good amount of changes in personality. I was surprised how flirty he was with Rave's cousin.

That said, I really like Damian in this story.

----------


## Blue22

> This is why many people want Dick to adopted Damian because of how terrible of a parent Bruce is.


I'm kinda torn on that. On one hand, yes. Damian probably would have been better off leaving with Dick after Bruce came back. He really is the Piccolo to Damian's Gohan. And I'd kill to see another mainline book starring those two again. 

But on the other hand...from a narrative standpoint, I really enjoy how complicated Bruce and Damian's relationship is. Especially in Tomasi's Batman and Robin. It's infuriating sometimes. Especially the moments where Bruce is straight up negligent and forgets that Damian is a child who just thinks he's grown up. But it's an interesting dynamic that I'm glad we got to see. Much like his relationship with Talia (Who I've honestly found to be just as bad as Bruce. Just for different reasons)




> So Kami knows what she's doing unlike Ridley on Supersons


Yeah. This Damian is still different but he feels a lot more like himself than "Ian" did. He's a different version but not a completely different character, if that makes sense.

----------


## AmiMizuno

> I'm kinda torn on that. On one hand, yes. Damian probably would have been better off leaving with Dick after Bruce came back. He really is the Piccolo to Damian's Gohan. And I'd kill to see another mainline book starring those two again. 
> 
> But on the other hand...from a narrative standpoint, I really enjoy how complicated Bruce and Damian's relationship is. Especially in Tomasi's Batman and Robin. It's infuriating sometimes. Especially the moments where Bruce is straight up negligent and forgets that Damian is a child who just thinks he's grown up. But it's an interesting dynamic that I'm glad we got to see. Much like his relationship with Talia (Who I've honestly found to be just as bad as Bruce. Just for different reasons)


The issue becomes how many times can you do the same thing. By that I mean they have Damian with good character development and yes people do take steps back but we get really bad step backs with both Damian. With Bruce I get. But with Damian I don't why we keep getting him worst than what he is. I'm not saying he can't be somewhat of a a-hole that is he personality but there is a way to make him likeable and not be him at square one

That's the issue with the Batfam they often get back to square one or more of a sidekick role like Dick. I feel like Dc wants to have Dick be robin but they can't.

----------


## Digifiend

> The webcomic is gold. loved Damian's Birthday
> 
> 
> 
> Also note that on Dick's phone it's a picture of him and Damian wearing party hats


Nine? So Damian there is five years younger than in main continuity?




> Respawn is for rose to deal with


Yeah, can see him defeating Damian (putting him down to his last life), only to lose to Rose.

----------


## Morgoth

New issue is doing really well on Amazon.



> I really hope Respawn isn't the son of Slade and Talia. I wish i never see any of the plans that Priest had for Damian being revisited.


On the other hand, if this happens, Al Ghuls will finally get their heir, who does not turn back from this, and Damian will choose the path of a hero along with his father and family, and this question will be closed. Maybe that's the point, if it's indeed Williamson plan for Respawn.

----------


## Morgoth

https://www.comicsbeat.com/joshua-wi...athstroke-inc/
Island arc will continue till issue #12. And it seems like Respawn is really some big deal.

----------


## garazza

> Momentarily steering the conversation away from Damian's shitty parents (Yes. Plural. They both suck.)
> 
> He has a *way* bigger role in the Beast Boy and Raven book than I thought he would. And, as far as alternate character takes go, he's actually pretty damn great. The book itself was already really enjoyable, but seeing him as a supporting character, as set up for his and Dick's book, was a nice surprise.


I've been intending to read those books because I love Picolo's art and have been a fan of his for a long time, and if the next installment features one of my favorite characters, I'll be sure to pick it up.




> https://www.comicsbeat.com/joshua-wi...athstroke-inc/
> Island arc will continue till issue #12. And it seems like Respawn is really some big deal.


That's good to hear. I thought this arc was going to be much shorter and at first I thought 12 issues was too long, but given how excellent the past six have been, I can't wait for more.

----------


## garazza

I was reading the interview and I came across this:




> Williamson: Thank you. It’s a book I wanted to do for the last 10 years. I pitched it to them so many times. So then they finally gave it to me, and they leave me alone on it, so I get to just have some fun and just tell some cool Damian stories. Him on the island, the stuff with the family, the stuff with Ravager and everything, it’s all connected. The stuff with Respawn, you’ll see, it’s all gonna keep connecting.
> 
> Grunenwald: Respawn seems like– is that a character that we know who it is?
> 
> Williamson: Maybe.
> 
> Grunenwald: Have we met them before?
> 
> Williamson: Maybe. Yeah, yeah, they’ll be important next year. I will say this, you’re not gonna find out who they really are in the Robin book. You’ll find that out in another book.


Please, for the love god, I don't care how or why, but please let Respawn be Jon Kent. I know before and after this excerpt they're talking about Deathstroke, Inc., Batman, and Justice League Incarnate, so that "other book" could be one of them, but it could also mean any book, maybe even one of the Superman books.

Maybe Jon got ninja training in space and became Space Beth from Rick and Morty. He really came into his own during and helped define Rebirth, and even though technically Jon came from Convergence, he's synonymous with Rebirth and Respawn could just be a reference to that. Whereas his father had the Return of Superman after his death, this will be the Respawn of Superboy because Jon's a kid and likes video games and his death was mostly metaphorical.

I don't know, I'm grasping at nothing here, but I'm allowed to be as delusional as any other fan on this forum.

----------


## Blue22

> I was reading the interview and I came across this:
> 
> 
> 
> Please, for the love god, I don't care how or why, but please let Respawn be Jon Kent. I know before and after this excerpt they're talking about Deathstroke, Inc., Batman, and Justice League Incarnate, so that "other book" could be one of them, but it could also mean any book, maybe even one of the Superman books.
> 
> Maybe Jon got ninja training in space and became Space Beth from Rick and Morty. He really came into his own during and helped define Rebirth, and even though technically Jon came from Convergence, he's synonymous with Rebirth and Respawn could just be a reference to that. Whereas his father had the Return of Superman after his death, this will be the Respawn of Superboy because Jon's a kid and likes video games and his death was mostly metaphorical.
> 
> I don't know, I'm grasping at nothing here, but I'm allowed to be as delusional as any other fan on this forum.


That would make absolute ZERO sense and now I want it to be true. Thanks a lot XD

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> I was reading the interview and I came across this:
> 
> 
> 
> Please, for the love god, I don't care how or why, but please let Respawn be Jon Kent. I know before and after this excerpt they're talking about Deathstroke, Inc., Batman, and Justice League Incarnate, so that "other book" could be one of them, but it could also mean any book, maybe even one of the Superman books.
> 
> Maybe Jon got ninja training in space and became Space Beth from Rick and Morty. He really came into his own during and helped define Rebirth, and even though technically Jon came from Convergence, he's synonymous with Rebirth and Respawn could just be a reference to that. Whereas his father had the Return of Superman after his death, this will be the Respawn of Superboy because Jon's a kid and likes video games and his death was mostly metaphorical.
> 
> I don't know, I'm grasping at nothing here, but I'm allowed to be as delusional as any other fan on this forum.


It's Clownhunter

----------


## garazza

> It's Clownhunter


That's. Even. Better!

----------


## garazza

Just some of my thoughts about issue 6

*spoilers:*
I really like how the vast majority of the preliminary fights were relegated to being the preview pages so the rest of the issue could be really character focused. Plus this is officially the half-way point of the first arc of Williamson and Melnikov's Robin, so if the the set-up was this good, then the pay off is going to be amazing.

Barring the obvious parallels between the manga and Damian and Flatline, because I hate the romantic implications, I'm curious as to XXL's whole deal. Why'd *he* try to steal the manga? Seems like a Respawn-type thing to do, given how he's used later in the issue and Williamson's interview about how interconnected Respawn is with everything Williamson is currently spinning. Could be nothing, like how lackadaisical Damian is with his secret identity, or it could be something, like how interconnected everything is.

I doubt we'd be getting the Damian vs. XXL fight I wanted because Damian has to fight Connor for round 2 and Connor has to go through XXL in order to get there. I wanted the Damian/XXL fight because XXL reminds me so much of Nick Diaz, with his shaved head and Capcom-sized MMA gloves emphasizing his fists because Nick was known as a striker, and I just wanted to see Damian get shit-talked and beat on.

This book is well and truly the spiritual successor to RSoB and by the look of things, it'll be around for a helluva lot longer. I'm celebrating when we hit 30 issues.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Murrocko

> Just some of my thoughts about issue 6
> 
> *spoilers:*
> I really like how the vast majority of the preliminary fights were relegated to being the preview pages so the rest of the issue could be really character focused. Plus this is officially the half-way point of the first arc of Williamson and Melnikov's Robin, so if the the set-up was this good, then the pay off is going to be amazing.
> 
> Barring the obvious parallels between the manga and Damian and Flatline, because I hate the romantic implications, I'm curious as to XXL's whole deal. Why'd *he* try to steal the manga? Seems like a Respawn-type thing to do, given how he's used later in the issue and Williamson's interview about how interconnected Respawn is with everything Williamson is currently spinning. Could be nothing, like how lackadaisical Damian is with his secret identity, or it could be something, like how interconnected everything is.
> 
> I doubt we'd be getting the Damian vs. XXL fight I wanted because Damian has to fight Connor for round 2 and Connor has to go through XXL in order to get there. I wanted the Damian/XXL fight because XXL reminds me so much of Nick Diaz, with his shaved head and Capcom-sized MMA gloves emphasizing his fists because Nick was known as a striker, and I just wanted to see Damian get shit-talked and beat on.
> 
> ...


Lmao love the Diaz comparison (also my heart still hurts from what happened to him on saturday)

----------


## garazza

> Lmao love the Diaz comparison (also my heart still hurts from what happened to him on saturday)


Thanks. I've only recently become an MMA fan, but I love the Diaz brothers, especially Nick. 

Lawler was the better fighter that night, but Diaz kept up with him. He proved he still had it, even after not fighting for so long.

----------


## CPSparkles

https://www.comicsbeat.com/joshua-wi...mpression=true

Williamson interview.

I appreciate him coming clean on the whole Damian slitting Tim's neck and it turns out it was just like @Restingvoice said. Dubious art making it unclear especially decades down the line. It was a punch with spikes.

Batman, Deathstroke Inc and Robin are connected. Yay!

Checkmate will come up in Robin. Boo!

Great to know that Robin will keep going.

----------


## dietrich

> https://www.comicsbeat.com/joshua-wi...mpression=true
> 
> Williamson interview.
> 
> I appreciate him coming clean on the whole Damian slitting Tim's neck and it turns out it was just like @Restingvoice said. Dubious art making it unclear especially decades down the line. It was a punch with spikes.
> 
> Batman, Deathstroke Inc and Robin are connected. Yay!
> 
> Checkmate will come up in Robin. Boo!
> ...


These writers who write multiple books incorporating decades of DC lore are only human. I get forgetting details. Happy he brought the Damian incident up here and cleared it up.

Good to know that the editor was competent enough to the error and challenge Williamson in his error. That's an editor who knows their job.

----------


## garazza

> These writers who write multiple books incorporating decades of DC lore are only human. I get forgetting details. Happy he brought the Damian incident up here and cleared it up.
> 
> Good to know that the editor was competent enough to the error and challenge Williamson in his error. That's an editor who knows their job.


In all honestly, it's all I could ever want from a writer, for them to just simply admit that they made a mistake and it's on them. "Apologies for the error. I can't promise it will never happen again, but I'll double check my work more often."

----------


## dietrich

> In all honestly, it's all I could ever want from a writer, for them to just simply admit that they made a mistake and it's on them. "Apologies for the error. I can't promise it will never happen again, but I'll double check my work more often."


Exactly. Can't stand the writers who either don't care/are so arrogant they twist characters or simply handwave or ignore blatant errors.

----------


## adrikito

> The sexism.
> 
> Talia isn't the only one who creates problems for Damian.
> Would you like Damian better if he had zero problems?


SEXISM?? MAN.. Complain about one Evil woman because is one woman is always sexism?? I dislike Flashpoint Batman as grandfather too.

I am only saying that she is even worse than Bruce as parent.




> All the problem that Talia created was trying to get her son back, even when he died it was out of her control. People seem to forget that Bruce was willing to give him to Talia so that she can leave Gotham alone rather than fighting for both the city and his son, he chose to give him up. Non of his parents are saints but Bruce is the only neglectful parent here and the reason for many of Damian problems if not most of them not Talia.


When HERETIC killed him?? She killed Heretic but... When Bruce accused her of killing her son she did not sounded too good making Bruce look like the only victim here who lost his son.. She put even a Price for his head.

I even heard that in Supersons she gave problems to him when Damian was in one academy.




> I really hope Respawn isn't the son of Slade and Talia. I wish i never see any of the plans that Priest had for Damian being revisited.
> 
> Also, can you image Talia choosing Bruce as the father of her child, who is not the best father around and then going from that to Slade for her next one? Slade, maybe the worst father in the whole DCU? Talking about bad decisions!


Watching Respawn I think that he is older than Damian.. It would only make Bruce look like Talia 2ND option..

This rumour is even here.. I am not sure if I prefer this or one Damian Clone. I am tired of that system.

Hoping that is as easy as one *DAMIAN cousin* like Mara case.

----------


## dietrich

> SEXISM?? I am only saying that she is even worse than Bruce as parent.


Is she?


Talia having other relationships isn't her making problems for Damian. Talia having a kid with other villains who then go on to target Damian isn't her making problems for Damian. She is entitled to live her life

I don't think you were being sexist. This thread is pretty consistent in calling out both Bruce and Talia.

However I have to point how you blatantly ignored everything we learned in RSOB [a title I know you read] about Talia during the Batman inc events

----------


## adrikito

> https://www.comicsbeat.com/joshua-wi...athstroke-inc/
> Island arc will continue till issue #12. And it seems like Respawn is really some big deal.


Good thing.. I like Connor and for this I prefer have a different character as enemy.. The Lazarus devil will probably be here during 2 issues as much. Despite after Robin 6 I am not surprised about it.


SOOOO.. We maybe met him before

Now is when the people will say GRANT wilson but... Rose knows him? She said that Respawn voice was familiar.

...... Respawn could be one YOUNG SLADE clone?  :Confused:  If we follow The Pre-Priest deathstroke run he turned young during some time.. So maybe Slade voice was different.

----------


## Blue22

> Is she?
> 
> 
> Talia having other relationships isn't her making problems for Damian. Talia having a kid with other villains who then go on to target Damian isn't her making problems for Damian. She is entitled to live her life
> 
> I don't think you were being sexist. This thread is pretty consistent in calling out both Bruce and Talia.
> 
> However I have to point how you blatantly ignored everything we learned in RSOB [a title I know you read] about Talia during the Batman inc events


I'm kinda on the fence about that little revelation in RSoB. Like, on one hand, I'm glad she's not actually so deranged that she'd put a bounty on her kid's head and then get upset when he dies (like...what the fuck did you think would happen). But like also....I feel like that was a little...too convenient of a method to explain her actions in Batman Inc. I think I still would have preferred if she had just admitted she fucked up and went a little mad over the thought of losing her son to Bruce. Let her work a little more for a better relationship with Damian. 

((Unrelated note, make some space in your inbox, dude. Tried to message you yesterday and it didn't go through lol))

----------


## Konja7

> Talia having other relationships isn't her making problems for Damian. *Talia having a kid with other villains who then go on to target Damian isn't her making problems for Damian.* She is entitled to live her life.


Are we sure the bolded part isn't making problems for Damian?

I mean, I suspect the other kid will target Damian, because Talia raises the kid for that.

----------


## Astralabius

Talia should never have been turned into a villain in the first place. Morrison ignored what Talia went through in Death and the Maidens and just acted like she had always been a crazy villain which is simply bullshit. She was created in 1971, not in 2006, read up on her original stories people.

Williamson has said that he wants to write her as more as Ra's daughter or Damian's mother, that he thinks she is great and DC has undervalued in recent years. He has read Death and the Maidens and he pushed for her to be on the Totality (aka helping the multiverse). He's already worked on redeeming Ra's and Thomas Wayne.
The backup stories before Robin literally ended with Talia being happy that Damian was making his own choices.
I really don't see Williamson making her into a huge problem for Damian.

----------


## KrustyKid

Loved the latest issue. Great display of Damian's tactical intelligence. Can't wait to see what happens next.

----------


## adrikito

It seems that I was not the only who was thinking that Kid Flatline was similar to Hana in design(of course. It was made in purpose  :Stick Out Tongue: ) and about parallels between them. Damian saw himself as Ren in Robin 4.

DC Robin comic Flatline kid hana manga.jpg

----------


## king81992

> SEXISM?? MAN.. Complain about one Evil woman because is one woman is always sexism?? I dislike Flashpoint Batman as grandfather too.
> 
> I am only saying that she is even worse than Bruce as parent.
> 
> 
> 
> When HERETIC killed him?? She killed Heretic but... When Bruce accused her of killing her son she did not sounded too good making Bruce look like the only victim here who lost his son.. She put even a Price for his head.
> 
> I even heard that in Supersons she gave problems to him when Damian was in one academy.
> ...


I suspect Respawn is Grant Wilson revived in a younger and possibly modified body.

----------


## adrikito

> I suspect Respawn is Grant Wilson revived in a younger and possibly modified body.


Younger?? Grant was not superyoung(teen-young adult) when he died??

Despite I continue without understand in this case why he dislikes Damian... He talks like if he saw Damian many years ago while he was still in the League and wanted to fight against him for years.

----------


## Rac7d*

> I suspect Respawn is Grant Wilson revived in a younger and possibly modified body.


I hope so, please let it be

----------


## Eckri

So Robin issue 6 is a nice set-up, nothing much happened but a set-up. Wish this was bi-monthly like everyone here says. 

Anyway, I did read the Beast Boy/Raven graphic novel. Gotta say, Damian might be OOC in that novel but it was fun. 

Got guts to declare himself the boyfriend of Max, as well as cuddling with her at the end. 

Was he OOC? Yep, but considering he's going to have a graphic novel with Dick. Eh, I'll put it to Dick influencing him.

----------


## king81992

> Younger?? Grant was not superyoung(teen-young adult) when he died??
> 
> Despite I continue without understand in this case why he dislikes Damian... He talks like if he saw Damian many years ago while he was still in the League and wanted to fight against him for years.


Grant was late teens- early twenties when he died.

----------


## Iclifton

> Is she?
> 
> 
> Talia having other relationships isn't her making problems for Damian. Talia having a kid with other villains who then go on to target Damian isn't her making problems for Damian. She is entitled to live her life
> 
> I don't think you were being sexist. This thread is pretty consistent in calling out both Bruce and Talia.
> 
> However I have to point how you blatantly ignored everything we learned in RSOB [a title I know you read] about Talia during the Batman inc events


Having sex/children with know assassins/mercenaries who then go on to pose a threat to your current child is pretty bad. I would say that is the definition of creating problems for your kid. Its def not sexist. If Bruce slept with Deathstroke I think he would probably say the same thing.

Kind of like saying hooking up with a known drug dealer creates problem for your children. Its in bad taste. Not to mention it`s not like Bruce knew he had a son to begin with. Talia kept it from him. And then allowed assassins to raise him to be a killer. Bruce is not the best dad but I think it is pretty clear he is the superior parent out of the two.

----------


## dietrich

> Having sex/children with know assassins/mercenaries who then go on to pose a threat to your current child is pretty bad. I would say that is the definition of creating problems for your kid. Its def not sexist. If Bruce slept with Deathstroke I think he would probably say the same thing.
> 
> Kind of like saying hooking up with a known drug dealer creates problem for your children. Its in bad taste. Not to mention it`s not like Bruce knew he had a son to begin with. Talia kept it from him. And then allowed assassins to raise him to be a killer. Bruce is not the best dad but I think it is pretty clear he is the superior parent out of the two.


Being a vigilante like Batman can and does create problems for his kids.
Kind of like how Bruce's decision to get into a serious relationship during King's run created problems for his kids. 3 of his sons have died and Damian has died so many times under Bruce's watch.

Bruce knew he had a son when he sent him into Gotham alone to face off against Bane, Thomas, GG and a city full of baddies. He allowed that knowing there was a very high possibility he'd get killed. Someone did get killed afterall.

Bruce is as bad as Talia especially since he is supposed to be a good guy hero. 

Talia's future kids may or may not create issues for Damian [depends in if their goals collide] Deathstroke's son had issues with Damian in Rebirth and that was nothing to do with Talia.

----------


## dietrich

> I'm kinda on the fence about that little revelation in RSoB. Like, on one hand, I'm glad she's not actually so deranged that she'd put a bounty on her kid's head and then get upset when he dies (like...what the fuck did you think would happen). But like also....I feel like that was a little...too convenient of a method to explain her actions in Batman Inc. I think I still would have preferred if she had just admitted she fucked up and went a little mad over the thought of losing her son to Bruce. Let her work a little more for a better relationship with Damian. 
> 
> *((Unrelated note, make some space in your inbox, dude. Tried to message you yesterday and it didn't go through lol))*


Will do. Forgot it was almost full

----------


## adrikito

I saw someone posting this theory today:


Don't know if anyone said this before, but my bet is that Respawn is the son of Talia and Slade Wilson aka Deathstroke.

How? Because of how Damian's birth was retconned at New 52 and kept in Rebirth (see Batman and Robin Vol 2 (2011)Issue #0) . And also other clues in Deathstroke vol 4, Issues #30-#35

We are told that Damian's gestation happened on an incubator womb for a 9-month-period, and then grew up
and trained with his mother among other teachers to be the deadliest assassin and true heir to the Head of the Demon.
Also, in the Deathstroke vs Batman storyline there's this idea that Damian might be Slade and Talia's spawn, since in the past and this comics these two have had a relationship (that includes sleeping together). In their last encounter she reveals that this was her plan to tease Slade about the idea of them being togheter, Slade dismisses it because the boy isn't his... And then Talia says "Can you reverse such procedures, yes? Consider, man of rage...the possibilities...

My theory is that Talia has gestated several babies in those incubator wombs, whose fathers are some of the apex humans in the world, such as Batman and Deathstroke among others.

*TL,DR: Batman's son is Talia's spawn.
Deathstroke's son is Talia's REspawn.*



For now I will think that it can be the case. Williamson even posted one Damian vs Slade giff today in his twitter. But it could be only because Robin and Deathstroke plots will collide in 2022.

----------


## Morgoth

Well, if that's true, at least DC will get their villainous Al Ghoul heir, whom they wanted to see in Damian.
I was thinking about it, and it's actually might be not a worst idea, at least Damian will have his own nemesis, who can play perfect as the character, which Damian could have been in the worst case scenario.

----------


## adrikito

> Well, if that's true, at least DC will get their villainous Al Ghoul heir, whom they wanted to see in Damian.
> I was thinking about it, and it's actually might be not a worst idea, at least Damian will have his own nemesis, who can play perfect as the character, which Damian could have been in the worst case scenario.


Hmmmm.. Yeah. It sounds interesting.

----------


## Lucas 35

But does anyone find it funny how most people forget that Talia is almost the same age as Dick? I think writers don't think about the age difference when they pick men for her to date

----------


## adrikito

> But does anyone find it funny how most people forget that Talia is almost the same age as Dick? I think writers don't think about the age difference when they pick men for her to date


About the Same age than Dick?? Damian has 14 years..

----------


## Morgoth

> But does anyone find it funny how most people forget that Talia is almost the same age as Dick? I think writers don't think about the age difference when they pick men for her to date


Lol, what? Talia at least the same age as Bruce. If not older, considering Lazarus Pit.

----------


## Harryrun

> I saw someone posting this theory today:
> 
> 
> Don't know if anyone said this before, but my bet is that Respawn is the son of Talia and Slade Wilson aka Deathstroke.
> 
> How? Because of how Damian's birth was retconned at New 52 and kept in Rebirth (see Batman and Robin Vol 2 (2011)Issue #0) . And also other clues in Deathstroke vol 4, Issues #30-#35
> 
> We are told that Damian's gestation happened on an incubator womb for a 9-month-period, and then grew up
> and trained with his mother among other teachers to be the deadliest assassin and true heir to the Head of the Demon.
> ...


Don't think so. Didn't slade confirm that he had a vasectomy decades ago. So the only way for it to plausible to make Respawn a Deathstroke clone or something. And tbh all that cloning plots are getting old and boring now. I'd rather him be someone not related to Damian but related to Slade a grandson or whatever whom Slade rejected and he became jealous that Slade is interested in Damian instead

----------


## Lucas 35

> Lol, what? Talia at least the same age as Bruce. If not older, considering Lazarus Pit.


In fact Talia has always been the same age as Dick, since her first appearance, when Dick was already a college student and she acted like a young maiden. In the story Batman: Birth of the Demon in 1993 it was said that Ra met Talia's mother in Woodstock in 1969, which would make her a maximum of 24 years old and Dick would be over 20 at the time. I don't know nowadays, but for the entire 20th century Talia was written as young and being the same age as Dick

she has always been the same age as Grayson. Dick was on his first year in college (18-19) when he got abducted by the League of Shadows to lure Bats out. Talia was only 18 when Bruce kissed her. This revelation shocked Bruce when he found out since she acted mature for actual age. Dennis O'neil confirmed this in an interview.

----------


## Restingvoice

Talia was a 19 year old med student when she was first created and met Bruce. Dick was 18 at the time and in his first year in Hudson. (oh was she 18? I only heard Dennis said she was 19)

I don't know if they changed it during Post Crisis, I don't think it matter at first, until Damian came along. That automatically placed Talia's meeting with Bruce earlier, around the time Dick was 14 instead of 18 maybe.  

Then in New 52 since Talia's an adult when Dick was only 15 during the Zero Year.

The lore that Talia is thrown into the Pit over and over, as far as I know, didn't come until Rebirth. Tom King wrote that Ra's forced Talia to sword fight since she can hold it and if she dies she's thrown into the pit. There's another author who used this method between Ra's and Damian, I forget who, but it became the Al Ghul's family tradition now. 

In Rebirth, Talia's also already an adult woman when she visited The Silencer who was a preteen at the time, attending Spyral's St. Hadrian school for girls. The Silencer in present day has a child, and she seems to be around Dick's age or older. 

Both lore so implied that Talia being dipped to the pit has prolonged her youth. I remember some reviewer think that Talia is as immortal as Ra's and that she's already far older than we thought.

The current age difference is unknown, since Dick and Babs have been made older again, and no one as far as I know has mentioned Talia's age, but because of Damian's existence, I think she's still older, but by how much I don't know.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Talia was a 19 year old med student when she was first created and met Bruce. Dick was 18 at the time and in his first year in Hudson. (oh was she 18? I only heard Dennis said she was 19)
> 
> I don't know if they changed it during Post Crisis, I don't think it matter at first, until Damian came along. That automatically placed Talia's meeting with Bruce earlier, around the time Dick was 14 instead of 18 maybe.  
> 
> Then in New 52 since Talia's an adult when Dick was only 15 during the Zero Year.
> 
> The lore that Talia is thrown into the Pit over and over, as far as I know, didn't come until Rebirth. Tom King wrote that Ra's forced Talia to sword fight since she can hold it and if she dies she's thrown into the pit. There's another author who used this method between Ra's and Damian, I forget who, but it became the Al Ghul's family tradition now. 
> 
> In Rebirth, Talia's also already an adult woman when she visited The Silencer who was a preteen at the time, attending Spyral's St. Hadrian school for girls. The Silencer in present day has a child, and she seems to be around Dick's age or older. 
> ...



King's addition of talia being dunked in the pool over and over was taken from Ibn an alternate version of Damian but I can't recall that happening to main Universe Damian

----------


## CPSparkles

> But does anyone find it funny how most people forget that Talia is almost the same age as Dick? I think writers don't think about the age difference when they pick men for her to date


Yeah she was a teen when she 1st Bruce. They've always drawn her to look older so most readers see the visual and don't actually know the age difference unless they've read the older comics.

----------


## adrikito

> Don't think so. Didn't slade confirm that he had a vasectomy decades ago. So the only way for it to plausible to make Respawn a Deathstroke clone or something. And tbh all that cloning plots are getting old and boring now. I'd rather him be someone not related to Damian but related to Slade a grandson or whatever whom Slade rejected and he became jealous that Slade is interested in Damian instead


Decades?? Rose had 18 years in Priest run.. I highly doubt that she suddently has +21 years if she is older now...

and I think that Slade learned it when she was a little kid..

Anyway. I think that as long as is NOT a damian clone it will be fine. Why his clone would be a deathstroke fan?

----------


## Rac7d*

> Decades?? Rose had 18 years in Priest run.. I highly doubt that she suddently has +21 years if she is older now...
> 
> and I think that Slade learned it when she was a little kid..
> 
> Anyway. I think that as long as is NOT a damian clone it will be fine. Why his clone would be a deathstroke fan?


Isn’t she Jason’s age ?

----------


## Jackalope89

> I saw someone posting this theory today:
> 
> 
> Don't know if anyone said this before, but my bet is that Respawn is the son of Talia and Slade Wilson aka Deathstroke.
> 
> How? Because of how Damian's birth was retconned at New 52 and kept in Rebirth (see Batman and Robin Vol 2 (2011)Issue #0) . And also other clues in Deathstroke vol 4, Issues #30-#35
> 
> We are told that Damian's gestation happened on an incubator womb for a 9-month-period, and then grew up
> and trained with his mother among other teachers to be the deadliest assassin and true heir to the Head of the Demon.
> ...


As someone that prefers the flawed, but not evil Talia, I absolutely _hate_ that theory. I hated the Batman/Deathstroke crossover where the whole "is Damian Slade's son!?" crap happened.
Nothing personal though.

Besides, DC seems almost hell bent on taking characters I like and doing them dirty.

----------


## Iclifton

> Being a vigilante like Batman can and does create problems for his kids.
> Kind of like how Bruce's decision to get into a serious relationship during King's run created problems for his kids. 3 of his sons have died and Damian has died so many times under Bruce's watch.
> 
> Bruce knew he had a son when he sent him into Gotham alone to face off against Bane, Thomas, GG and a city full of baddies. He allowed that knowing there was a very high possibility he'd get killed. Someone did get killed afterall.
> 
> Bruce is as bad as Talia especially since he is supposed to be a good guy hero. 
> 
> Talia's future kids may or may not create issues for Damian [depends in if their goals collide] Deathstroke's son had issues with Damian in Rebirth and that was nothing to do with Talia.


Okay, but no one said Bruce didn`t create problems for his children. He said Talia keeps creating problems for his children based on the possibility Respawn being Talia and Slade`s kid. Which is not sexist since it is true, she is creating problems. Grown women or not, having the right to sleep with whomever you want does not mean its judgment free forward thinking to have sex and maybe a child with a mass murder. 

Like I said Bruce may not be perfect, but giving his children an ideal to aspire toward and being a superhero is a hell of a lot better than raising your children with assassins and turning him into a killer.

----------


## Blue22

> As someone that prefers the flawed, but not evil Talia, I absolutely _hate_ that theory. I hated the Batman/Deathstroke crossover where the whole "is Damian Slade's son!?" crap happened.
> Nothing personal though.
> 
> Besides, DC seems almost hell bent on taking characters I like and doing them dirty.


I'm actually not totally opposed to Respawn being some surprise child between Slade and Talia. I'll take that over Slade being Damian's father. I just wonder how they'd go about explaining his existence or Damian not knowing about him until now. Like....is there a way to pull that off without it being contrived as hell?

----------


## adrikito

> I'm actually not totally opposed to Respawn being some surprise child between Slade and Talia. I'll take that over Slade being Damian's father. I just wonder how they'd go about explaining his existence or Damian not knowing about him until now. Like....is there a way to pull that off without it being contrived as hell?


Batman did not knew about Damian for 10 YEARS... and if I am not wrong originally Damian met Talia with 7 years.

Who knows what she keep from him before that... Or after Damian left the league.

Anyway. I think that I will pray to not see DC saying something as Stupid as that Damian had a Twin(similar to Injustice)..  :Mad:  I prefer the Slade&Talia son or a cousin.

----------


## Blue22

> and if I am not wrong originally Damian met Talia with 7 years.


Is that still a thing? Last I remembered, current Talia was kind of a constant presence in Damian's life. At least as far back as when he was like three.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I'm actually not totally opposed to Respawn being some surprise child between Slade and Talia. I'll take that over Slade being Damian's father. I just wonder how they'd go about explaining his existence or Damian not knowing about him until now. Like....is there a way to pull that off without it being contrived as hell?


If Respawn is some test tube thing from a separate sect of the League of Assassins/Shadows/Whatever, and neither Talia or Slade (who is supposed to be snipped, if memory serves right) know, I could live with it. But Slade is already a terrible and absent father to his own, established kids. He really doesn't need any more popping up out of nowhere.

----------


## Blue22

> If Respawn is some test tube thing from a separate sect of the League of Assassins/Shadows/Whatever, and neither Talia or Slade (who is supposed to be snipped, if memory serves right) know, I could live with it. But Slade is already a terrible and absent father to his own, established kids. He really doesn't need any more popping up out of nowhere.


Between Tara, Damian, Wallace, the Titans, and his own offspring, they need to just, in general, stop giving Slade so many character defining stories with kids in them. They just aren't a good mix for him XD

----------


## Jackalope89

> Between Tara, Damian, Wallace, the Titans, and his own offspring, they need to just, in general, stop giving Slade so many character defining stories with kids in them. They just aren't a good mix for him XD


On that e can agree.

----------


## adrikito

> Is that still a thing? Last I remembered, current Talia was kind of a constant presence in Damian's life. At least as far back as when he was like three.


DC can always reboot it again.. Watch Superkid origin. It was in part rebooted again recently with Superman busy that day.

Or Respawn can be a simple boy from one league faction that who take care of him made sure make him hate Ra´s al Ghul successor Damian for example.

----------


## HsssH

Yeah, I think Batman and Robin #0 with Talia being with Damian since the begging is latest word on this subject, but Williamson can obviously change it if he wants to.

Deathstroke vs Batman was fine story arc because it caused some drama and raised some questions. It ended with Damian's DNA test proving that he is Bruce's kid and Bruce throwing it away without looking at it because Damian is his son no matter what. So to me that was strong ending with strong character moments and now we can all move past it. But if Respawn's parents are Talia and Slade then it permanently links Respawn and Slade to Damian and I'm not a fan of that at all.

----------


## Rac7d*

I am glad this book is doing well

DBFE31DC-643C-4E56-AD56-654E07731CDB.jpg

----------


## adrikito

In a TOP 10 of BEST SELLERS. Interesting

----------


## adrikito

Damian will appear like this too in DC LEGENDS? I saw it in deviantart saying *SKIN 1*.. Or maybe is a fanart?

Robin Damian Wayne Model DC Legends.jpg

----------


## Harryrun

Injustice 3 leaked roster 
Damian is there as usual he'll be Robin/Nightwing. Keep in mind the game is yet to be confirmed. In case it get confirmed that mean another injustice comic run. It'll be good to see Damian character progression after Injustice 2

----------


## adrikito

> Injustice 3 leaked roster 
> Damian is there as usual he'll be Robin/Nightwing. Keep in mind the game is yet to be confirmed. In case it get confirmed that mean another injustice comic run. It'll be good to see Damian character progression after Injustice 2


I read this few days ago... 

BAD THING. In Injustice II game looks like if everyone hates Damian in the battles.  :Frown: 

I was more happy with him dying as HERO in Injustice vs Masters Universe.


I can´t understand some characters presence here but watching the ANTIMONITOR probably they are from another universe.


WAIIIITT.. He-Man??  :Confused:  Ahhh. How bad that we can´t follow *Injus&masters* universe logic in the game and stop making this to Damian.

----------


## CPSparkles

> I read this few days ago... 
> 
> BAD THING. In Injustice II game looks like if everyone hates Damian in the battles. 
> 
> I was more happy with him dying as HERO in Injustice vs Masters Universe.
> 
> 
> I can´t understand some characters presence here but watching the ANTIMONITOR probably they are from another universe.
> 
> ...


 Dude Damian is a character that's designed to be divisive so he is going to always get hate. All characters get hate.

Damian being in the Injustice game is a good thing. I'd rather Damian get's used in bold nuanced stories that provokes strong emotions than have him killed off in a popular series.

If the hate affects you so strongly then I suggest avoiding Gaming forums.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Injustice 3 leaked roster 
> Damian is there as usual he'll be Robin/Nightwing. Keep in mind the game is yet to be confirmed. In case it get confirmed that mean another injustice comic run. It'll be good to see Damian character progression after Injustice 2


Hope the games gets announced. I really enjoyed what taylor did with the character in Injustice 2

----------


## L.H.

> Damian will appear like this too in DC LEGENDS? I saw it in deviantart saying *SKIN 1*.. Or maybe is a fanart?
> 
> Attachment 114341



If you mean DC Legends Game, he's been a playable character since 2017. This is the new skin that was released during the last month raid.

----------


## Harryrun

> Dude Damian is a character that's designed to be divisive so he is going to always get hate. All characters get hate.
> 
> Damian being in the Injustice game is a good thing. I'd rather Damian get's used in bold nuanced stories that provokes strong emotions than have him killed off in a popular series.
> 
> If the hate affects you so strongly then I suggest avoiding Gaming forums.


True and TBH Damian character in Injustice is one of the most humane ones in terms of emotional development. He wasn't super angry nor super peaceful. He didn't agree completely with superman or Batman thats why Clark planned for Zsasz to kill Alfred. People only look at Dick's death and decide that they hate him in this storyline and ignore every other aspect.

----------


## Rac7d*

> True and TBH Damian character in Injustice is one of the most humane one in terms of emotional development. He wasn't super angry nor super peaceful. He didn't agree completely with superman or Batman thats why Clark planned for Zsasz to kill Alfred. People only look at Dick's death and decide that they hate him in this storyline and ignore every other aspect.


the video game making everyone rag on him doesn't help

----------


## Eckri

You know speaking of Injustice, anyone saw that one moment where Damian was fighting Ra's al Ghul in the trailer of the animated movie?
When did that happen in the comics? I cause I sure don't remember.

----------


## adrikito

> Dude Damian is a character that's designed to be divisive so he is going to always get hate. All characters get hate.
> 
> Damian being in the Injustice game is a good thing. I'd rather Damian get's used in bold nuanced stories that provokes strong emotions than have him killed off in a popular series.
> 
> If the hate affects you so strongly then I suggest avoiding Gaming forums.


Fortunately I never visited Games Forums.. In the present I only play to games made for normal persons who have Patreons to support the game.




> True and TBH Damian character in Injustice is one of the most humane ones in terms of emotional development. He wasn't super angry nor super peaceful. He didn't agree completely with superman or Batman thats why Clark planned for Zsasz to kill Alfred. People only look at Dick's death and decide that they hate him in this storyline and ignore every other aspect.


That is what dislikes me.. A lot of people is UNABLE to watch everything and hates the character for 1 ACTION.

ANYWAY. As internet showed me.. There are worst things than haters.



*The Final Order Cut-Off for ROBIN #7 is TODAY!:*

https://twitter.com/Williamson_Josh/...22708378386433

----------


## Blue22

I REALLY dislike the Injustice storyline as a whole. Not just Damian's part in it (if anyone deserves the title of my most hated character in those games, it's Wonder Woman). 

If there's one thing Neatherrealm Studios has proven with three MK games and two Injustice games under their belt, it's that they aren't nearly as good at telling a story as they are at making fun games  (I could rant for days about my problems with the new Mortal Kombat timeline)

Taylor's books made it more tolerable but I'm still not a fan. Kinda hoping IJ3 takes MK11's lead and reboots everything. It's gonna sound weird since Civil War is my favorite MCU movie, but I *really* don't like most "Heroes VS Heroes" plots.




> Injustice 3 leaked roster 
> Damian is there as usual he'll be Robin/Nightwing. Keep in mind the game is yet to be confirmed. In case it get confirmed that mean another injustice comic run. It'll be good to see Damian character progression after Injustice 2


There are things about that roster that I really like. Namely Beast Boy, Impulse, and Terry McGinnis. But I've seen this supposedly "leaked roster" before and it definitely sounds too good to be true.

I'm kinda hoping it's not true because I'm not the least bit interested in any of those DLC characters. In fact I'd go as far as to say I hate just about all of those options. Especially in comparison to IJ2's awesome DLC picks.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I REALLY dislike the Injustice storyline as a whole. Not just Damian's part in it (if anyone deserves the title of my most hated character in those games, it's Wonder Woman). 
> 
> If there's one thing Neatherrealm Studios has proven with three MK games and two Injustice games under their belt, it's that they aren't nearly as good at telling a story as they are at making fun games  (I could rant for days about my problems with the new Mortal Kombat timeline)
> 
> Taylor's books made it more tolerable but I'm still not a fan. Kinda hoping IJ3 takes MK11's lead and reboots everything. It's gonna sound weird since Civil War is my favorite MCU movie, but I *really* don't like most "Heroes VS Heroes" plots.
> 
> 
> 
> There are things about that roster that I really like. Namely Beast Boy, Impulse, and Terry McGinnis. But I've seen this supposedly "leaked roster" before and it definitely sounds too good to be true.
> ...


No Lobo though.  :Frown: 
Speaking of which, of all Injustice, his part in Injustice 2 Comics as a Green Lantern, was the only part I enjoyed.

----------


## HsssH

> Taylor's books made it more tolerable but I'm still not a fan. Kinda hoping IJ3 takes MK11's lead and reboots everything. It's gonna sound weird since Civil War is my favorite MCU movie, but I *really* don't like most "Heroes VS Heroes" plots.


I think there is a big difference between "heroes vs heroes" and fuck it, lets just murder each other.

----------


## adrikito

Congratulations for the 200th page Damian.

Damian wayne robin goliath.jpg

----------


## Eckri

Wholesome Damian in the "Are you afraid of Darkseid" comic.
It's set in the Teen Titans era, and the tone shift is real.
I can't remember the team being this wholesome.

----------


## Fergus

> Wholesome Damian in the "Are you afraid of Darkseid" comic.
> It's set in the Teen Titans era, and the tone shift is real.
> I can't remember the team being this wholesome.


I forgot that was solicited. Might check it out. Pleased to know that they've moved on to less depressing.

----------


## Fergus

> Congratulations for the 200th page Damian.
> 
> Damian wayne robin goliath.jpg


Damian the animal collector. lol at Alfred.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Damian the animal collector. lol at Alfred.


Who’s taking care of them now ?

----------


## Light of Justice

> Who’s taking care of them now ?


IIRC in Tec comic Batman took them all except Goliath. Goliath is with Ra's

----------


## Light of Justice

Damian (and his Teen Titans team) appeared in "Are You Afraid of Darkseid?" comic. The horror stories are not scary at all (IMO) but kinda bittersweet that the team actually has the potential to be a wholesome group if only their existence are not created to turn Damian into baby Hitler-Magneto.
(Also Jackson joined Damian's 2nd TT rooster, weird but okay)

----------


## garazza

There was so much lost potential by not giving Damian a positive experience with the Teen Titans. At this point, it's actually a character trait that Damian as a person does not work well with the Teen Titans and I think DC should lean into that.

----------


## adrikito

WHY harley ruins EVERYTHING?? One Darkseid story and this idiot is bothering here too??

----------


## HsssH

> There was so much lost potential by not giving Damian a positive experience with the Teen Titans. At this point, it's actually a character trait that Damian as a person does not work well with the Teen Titans and I think DC should lean into that.


Yeah, I think its ok that not everyone gets along.

----------


## dietrich

> WHY harley ruins EVERYTHING?? One Darkseid story and this idiot is bothering here too??


Considering how popular Harley is she makes things better. A lot of fans are happy to see her and her been here will increase sales.

You complain about people hating on Damian  for accidentally killing a fan fav. A development that would annoy any fan. Nobody wants to see a character they like get killed. Yet here you are hating on Harley simply for being included.

Not cool man.

----------


## adrikito

> Considering how popular Harley is she makes things better. A lot of fans are happy to see her and her been here will increase sales.
> 
> You complain about people hating on Damian  for accidentally killing a fan fav. A development that would annoy any fan. Nobody wants to see a character they like get killed. Yet here you are hating on Harley simply for being included.
> 
> Not cool man.


Popularity.. How bad that she looks like part of the TOP 4 of DC alongside Batman, WW and Superman and is not enough give to her 2 series for example and she can appear everywhere.. 

Just saying that even avoiding Gotham or Suicide Squad is impossible not find her in a comic... It makes you tired of this character added without reason everywhere.. 

Superman reveals his identity and she appears in the  HALL OF JUSTICE.. Seriously?

It seems that only have someone related with Batman A ROBIN here is enough to include her somehow.

----------


## dietrich

> Okay, but no one said Bruce didn`t create problems for his children. He said Talia keeps creating problems for his children based on the possibility Respawn being Talia and Slade`s kid. Which is not sexist since it is true, she is creating problems. Grown women or not, having the right to sleep with whomever you want does not mean its judgment free forward thinking to have sex and maybe a child with a mass murder. 
> 
> Like I said Bruce may not be perfect, but giving his children an ideal to aspire toward and being a superhero is a hell of a lot better than raising your children with assassins and turning him into a killer.


Okay but no one said Bruce creates problems for his kids. That was my point

I know it's not sexist. I said it wasn't.

Bruce isn't giving them something ideal to aspire to. That's like saying Ra's as an environmentalist is giving Damian something ideal to aspire to. Saving the earth is as noble as saving lives but the way the two go about achieving their goals are bad.
There are other more effective ways of being a hero who safeguards kids /cuts down crime that don't involve kelvar and spandex.  


On the subject of turning kids into killers. Bruce's all of Bruce's kids have used the skills he taught them to kill 
Dick - Joker
Jason - a lot
Tim - Shiva
Damian -Nobody, Spook, Brother Blood


Talia can have sex and a kid with a killer. That doesn't mean the kid is automatically going to become a killer. Lots of bad guys reproduce and the kids grow up to be good people. Villainy isn't transferred via DNA and even kids conditioned to kill don't always become killers look at Cass.

The whole Talia birthing potential heirs and Ra's looking for heirs within the Batfam is overdone anyways.

Talia has another sprog it'd be great if they did something different narrative wise. Talia 's plot shouldn't revolve around Bruce and Damian. I like Talia expand her reach across the DCU.

----------


## adrikito

> Talia has another sprog it'd be great if they did something different narrative wise. Talia 's plot shouldn't revolve around Bruce and Damian. I like Talia expand her reach across the DCU.


If Respawn was her son it could expand but... at which price?? 

We should think in this case that she send him here? In that case is giving problems to her original son Damian. This character dislikes Damian like if he was already a Damian vilain.

Saying it for those who complain about Talia looking like a bad mother and character..

----------


## dietrich

> Popularity.. How bad that she looks like part of the TOP 4 of DC alongside Batman, WW and Superman and is not enough give to her 2 series for example and she can appear everywhere.. 
> 
> Just saying that even avoiding Gotham or Suicide Squad is impossible not find her in a comic... It makes you tired of this character added without reason everywhere.. 
> 
> Superman reveals his identity and she appears in the  HALL OF JUSTICE.. Seriously?
> 
> It seems that only have someone related with Batman A ROBIN here is enough to include her somehow.


She is a hero and she sells so it's understandable why she's in those stories. She's included because she sells and DC is a business that needs to make money. It's pretty simple.
I hate when fans complain about Damian being shoved down people's throats and as a Harley fan I dislike that just like with Damian some always feel the need to complain and let everyone know how much they hate the character, why is she being pushed etc.

DC will use characters that are likely to sell and writers use characters that they need in the story or want [mandates aside]

Not to mention that your comment wasn't even about Damian and this is Damian's appreciation thread.

----------


## adrikito

> She is a hero and she sells so it's understandable why she's in those stories. She's included because she sells and DC is a business that needs to make money. It's pretty simple.
> I hate when fans complain about Damian being shoved down people's throats and as a Harley fan I dislike that just like with Damian some always feel the need to complain and let everyone know how much they hate the character, why is she being pushed etc.
> 
> DC will use characters that are likely to sell and writers use characters that they need in the story or want [mandates aside]
> 
> Not to mention that your comment wasn't even about Damian and this is Damian's appreciation thread.


HERO? She is in the Suicide Squad... She is Neutral but not a hero.

Or you say it for DC including her with the batfamily(or I think that I saw this once) when she still has friends with bad reputation like IVY? 

ANYWAY maybe I should forget Ivy case.. Something similar happens with Batman and Talia for example.. He knows that she is a villain that will cause trouble and allows her to be FREE and he is in theory a real hero.

----------


## dietrich

> If Respawn was her son it could expand but... at which price?? 
> 
> We should think in this case that she send him here? In that case is giving problems to her original son Damian. This character dislikes Damian like if he was already a Damian vilain.
> 
> Saying it for those who complain about Talia looking like a bad mother and character..


Well if Respawn is indeed talia's kid who is gunning for Damian because he dislikes him then look on the bright side. That's a OG Damian foe and a source of future stories  :Stick Out Tongue: 

I hope he's not Talia's kid but even if he is like I said a few pages back it's not a bad or a problem. superheroes need conflict. They need characters to fight.

----------


## dietrich

> HERO? She is in the Suicide Squad... She is Neutral but not a hero.
> 
> Or you say it for DC including her with the batfamily(or I think that I saw this once) when she still has friends with bad reputation like IVY? 
> 
> ANYWAY maybe I should forget Ivy case.. Something similar happens with Batman and Talia for example.. He knows that she is a villain that will cause trouble and allows her to be FREE and he is in theory a real hero.


Batman is willing to work with her. How many tomes has she saved batman in the current run?

Her redemption wasn't well done and DC rushed her down the hero path however that doesn't change the fact that she is a hero/heroic. ish?

----------


## adrikito

> Batman is willing to work with her. How many tomes has she saved batman in the current run?
> 
> Her redemption wasn't well done and DC rushed her down the hero path however that doesn't change the fact that she is a hero/heroic. ish?


Not sure how many times saved him.. Neither about her redemption. 

*Batman comics turned in something weird to me and stopped reading them.. I prefer the old villains* like Joker, Bane and others than weird new villains&characters.. Only that abbys liked me enough want to give it one chance to Williamson.




> I hope he's not Talia's kid but even if he is like I said a few pages back it's not a bad or a problem. superheroes need conflict. They need characters to fight.


Yeah. He needs his own villains. Respawn and Flatline could work like that after this ROBIN run..

We know that Damian and her will break in certain point or Grayson would have Barbara as definitive girlfriend for example and not many options.. 

Probably Flatline will take the villain path becaming in some kind of Damian Talia/Catwoman if she is lucky..

----------


## adrikito

Damian fanart:

Damian Wayne Robin 2021 fight pose.jpg

----------


## CPSparkles

Batman Family Portraits Remastered: Damian 




https://ascender56.tumblr.com

----------


## Blue22

Whelp. We got out first live action Damian for the Wayne Family Adventures mini-series. And wow. If that first picture is any indicator, this kid's already gonna have his facial expressions down lol

----------


## adrikito

> Whelp. We got out first live action Damian for the Wayne Family Adventures mini-series. And wow. If that first picture is any indicator, this kid's already gonna have his facial expressions down lol


What is this?? The other guy is a live action Dick Grayson?

----------


## Blue22

Nope. The other guy is Tim. Though his brother is playing Dick.

They're doing a live action mini series based on the Batfamily web comics that have been coming out.

----------


## adrikito

> Nope. The other guy is Tim. Though his brother is playing Dick.
> 
> They're doing a live action mini series based on the Batfamily web comics that have been coming out.


I suspected that... 

Maybe for the hairstyle or His face expression.. who knows.

I wanted him to be Dick. I like more how their relationship works.

WOW.. I learned Some days ago about that comic and now even a LIVE ACTION?? *Where did you found this?? To see if I can see more characters.*

----------


## Blue22

https://www.ign.com/articles/batman-...on-series-cast

----------


## Digifiend

> HERO? She is in the Suicide Squad... She is Neutral but not a hero.


Not any more. Harley left the Suicide Squad and is now working with Batman. She has aspirations to be a Robin, despite the fact she should be older than Dick is!

----------


## Jackalope89

> Not any more. Harley left the Suicide Squad and is now working with Batman. She has aspirations to be a Robin, despite the fact she should be older than Dick is!


HarleyxLobo is the only ship I want. Not the one-shot from Harley's Little Black Book. Hell, they could even go the Crush is Harley and Lobo's secret child.

----------


## adrikito

> Not any more. Harley left the Suicide Squad and is now working with Batman. She has aspirations to be a Robin, despite the fact she should be older than Dick is!


I see.. I should not be surprised about it knowing how much DC wants to sell more and more of Harley for her popularity..

DAMN. This batfamily continues increasing their files for no reason..

Anyway. She worked as the SUICIDE SQUAD IMAGE(not as another Random batfamily member) making her fans buy it.. Who would replace her in this?? DEADSHOT?

----------


## adrikito

Maybe the last that I add. I do not see people paying attention to these sketches. Maybe is a waste of time post them here..

A little weird see him Smiling.. Perhaps he is satisfied by the Monster Lazarus defeat? 

Damian Wayne Robin 2021 Roger Cruz Sketch.jpg

----------


## Blue22

> Maybe the last that I add. I do not see people paying attention to these sketches. Maybe is a waste of time post them here..


Nah. Keep 'em coming. Just because no one's saying anything doesn't mean they aren't seen or appreciated. This is Damian's appreciation thread after all.

----------


## adrikito

OK. Is just that I though that some people can see it unnecessary and does not care too much about see this or not.

People used to see him in color and not in white/black like if this was one manga image.

----------


## HsssH

> Not any more. Harley left the Suicide Squad and is now working with Batman. She has aspirations to be a Robin, despite the fact she should be older than Dick is!


What the fuck?

----------


## Katana500

> What the fuck?


I'm pretty sure her aspirations are to be accepted by Batman and work alongside him, rather than actually taking the Robin mantle from Damian.

She is trying to redeem herself and because of that is trying extra hard to be useful to Batman.

I'd actually kinda like to see a Damian and Harley team up. Damian tends to have fun dynamics with characters with more cheerful personalities like Harley. They probably wouldn't get on very well but would still be fun.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Maybe the last that I add. I do not see people paying attention to these sketches. Maybe is a waste of time post them here..
> 
> A little weird see him Smiling.. Perhaps he is satisfied by the Monster Lazarus defeat? 
> 
> Damian Wayne Robin 2021 Roger Cruz Sketch.jpg


I follow him on Instagram and Twitter, they look good once we get closer to his books I’m sure others will take notice

----------


## dietrich

> Whelp. We got out first live action Damian for the Wayne Family Adventures mini-series. And wow. If that first picture is any indicator, this kid's already gonna have his facial expressions down lol


That was fast.  I saw a bigger version of this picture. Tim and Damian in this scene are sitting in Birds cages. The chairs are bird cages with one side cut out!

His expressions does line up with what I'd imagine Damian would look like.

----------


## dietrich

> Maybe the last that I add. I do not see people paying attention to these sketches. Maybe is a waste of time post them here..
> 
> A little weird see him Smiling.. Perhaps he is satisfied by the Monster Lazarus defeat? 
> 
> Attachment 114445


Nice pic. Please keep posting Adrikito. We do appreciate the uploads.

----------


## adrikito

> I'm pretty sure her aspirations are to be accepted by Batman and work alongside him, rather than actually taking the Robin mantle from Damian.
> 
> She is trying to redeem herself and because of that is trying extra hard to be useful to Batman.
> 
> I'd actually kinda like to see a Damian and Harley team up. Damian tends to have fun dynamics with characters with more cheerful personalities like Harley. They probably wouldn't get on very well but would still be fun.


I hope that not... 

Despite I would had less problems with them teaming than Damian and Superkid. I do not think that Harley would cause more problems to him.




> I follow him on Instagram and Twitter, they look good once we get closer to his books I’m sure others will take notice


Is only wait until the Annual. Apparently after this Roger Cruz replaces the current Robin artist.

----------


## CPSparkles

I love Harley and Damian. Love that it every time he calls him baby Bat and he scolds her warning her to "never call him that Quinn"

They have such good banter the few stories we've seen them together in.

Their bickering in Gotham Resistance was funny though felt sorry for poor Nightwing who had to play referee.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Whelp. We got out first live action Damian for the Wayne Family Adventures mini-series. And wow. If that first picture is any indicator, this kid's already gonna have his facial expressions down lol


So confirmed the Batman does wear make up for crime fighting purposes.

The actor is a good fit for Damian. It's hard to cast characters with unusual mixes like Damian's Middle Eastern/Asian/Caucasian blend.

----------


## Fergus

> Whelp. We got out first live action Damian for the Wayne Family Adventures mini-series. And wow. If that first picture is any indicator, this kid's already gonna have his facial expressions down lol


WB racing to provide content for HBO. This looks good. Hopefully other franchises get some focus too.

----------


## brandnewfan

Why are the Tim and Dick actors Asian?

----------


## Rac7d*

> Why are the Tim and Dick actors Asian?


                   why not be asian ?

----------


## brandnewfan

> why not be asian ?



Because the characters aren't Asian?

On the other hand, I think the actor for Damian looks pretty spot on.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> Because the characters aren't Asian?
> 
> On the other hand, I think the actor for Damian looks pretty spot on.


Aren't you the same guy who wants TimKon? We can accept characters being of different ethnicities in live-action adaptations.

----------


## Harryrun

Its not about ethnicity. Its about staying true to the original material. Since we want Damian to be a POC and demand it when they white wash him. It should be the same when they change other characters origins/gender to show diversity. Double standards shouldn't be a thing.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> Its not about ethnicity. Its about staying true to the original material. Since we want Damian to be a POC and demand it when they white wash him. It should be the same when they change other characters origins/gender to show diversity. Double standards shouldn't be a thing.


If we're being honest, Damian looking white isn't him being whitewashed. That's, like, what he could realistically look like.

Anyways, double standards? Gonna blow a fuse because the actor doesn't have blue eyes or something?

----------


## Veni

> Because the characters aren't Asian?
> 
> On the other hand, I think the actor for Damian looks pretty spot on.


Don't worry. Wayne Family Adventures is a fan-made show. It isn't official.

----------


## Fergus

> why not be asian ?


Because it's hollow and counter productive especially in Tim's case.

The need for race bending arose because of a lack of equal representation in comics and media in general.

More Representation is good as is listening to fan demands. When those changes are done to appease fans HC which lean into stereotypes and fetish [Asian Tim does do that] then it's damaging.

When those changes are made and feed into already existing societal stereotypes [Making Tim Black and changing his origin to make him less wealthy and an inner city kid] then it's racist.

It's also problematic for Tim the character as is in the comics since any viewers who take to him because they feel he represents them on a racial level is in for a huge disappointment when they find out the Actual Tim in the comics is as white as they come.

While most fans hated Titans making Tim Black Asian they have welcomed this new interpretation of Asian Tim who isn't so black. I wonder why?

The Asian Tim HC was born from the 'smart Asian Stereotype' He's smart so he must be Asian. He's smart so he can't be black.

----------


## Fergus

> If we're being honest, Damian looking white isn't him being whitewashed. That's, like, what he could realistically look like.
> 
> Anyways, double standards? Gonna blow a fuse because the actor doesn't have blue eyes or something?


When people ask for Damian's look's to reflect his heritage, they understand that there are people who pass. However comics are a visual meduim and since we are talking representation it's understandable why fans want Damian to look different from Bruce and the Rest of the Bat boys who have no Asian or middle eastern genes.

It understandable when fans ask for him to be a bit more Tanned than his siblings, have facial features that reflect his mixed hertige. Distinct from his siblings.

It's understand why they complain whenever artists mess up and give him blue eyes instead of green

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> When people ask for Damian's look's to reflect his heritage, they understand that there are people who pass. However comics are a visual meduim and since we are talking representation it's understandable why fans want Damian to look different from Bruce and the Rest of the Bat boys who have no Asian or middle eastern genes.
> 
> It understandable when fans ask for him to be a bit more Tanned than his siblings, have facial features that reflect his mixed hertige. Distinct from his siblings.
> 
> It's understand why they complain whenever artists mess up and give him blue eyes instead of green


There are Middle Eastern people who are white passing, you understand? Like, a ton of them. Who feel represented by Damian.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Because the characters aren't Asian?
> 
> On the other hand, I think the actor for Damian looks pretty spot on.


Their tall dark and handsome like the rest of the Robin line and, incredible martial artist/ stuntmen 
I was hoping for Yoshi in the films but this might be better

----------


## Fergus

> There are Middle Eastern people who are white passing, you understand? Like, a ton of them. Who feel represented by Damian.


II understand that a ton of white passing Middle Eastern are a thing Do they feel they are represented by a white passing, Asian/Middle Eastern Caucasian whose Grand mother was Jewish? I can't speak for that demographic nor do I have any secondary data to support it so won't assume.

I have never seen a post comment, blog, tweet that read* thanks for making Damian white Passing* 

I do know that social media has a huge number of Middle Eastern and SE Asian Damian fans who have been asking, petitioning and bugging DC and Writers to make him more visually represent his mixed heritage. There's a magnitude of secondary data showing that Damian's middle Eastern fans like him to look like a PoC. They like him darker.

----------


## Fergus

> Their tall dark and handsome like the rest of the Robin line and, incredible martial artist/ stuntmen 
> I was hoping for Yoshi in the films but this might be better


You know who else is tall, Dark, handsome and can do martial arts? Romani men and Caucasian men

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> II understand that a ton of white passing Middle Eastern are a thing Do they feel they are represented by a white passing, Asian/Middle Eastern Caucasian whose Grand mother was Jewish? I can't speak for that demographic nor do I have any secondary data to support it so won't assume.
> 
> I have never seen a post comment, blog, tweet that read* thanks for making Damian white Passing* 
> 
> I do know that social media has a huge number of Middle Eastern and SE Asian Damian fans who have been asking, petitioning and bugging DC and Writers to make him more visually represent his mixed heritage. There's a magnitude of secondary data showing that Damian's middle Eastern fans like him to look like a PoC. They like him darker.


A ton of people asking aren't Middle Eastern in the slightest. They're primarily white and/or other minorities who aren't very knowledgeable on the topic.

No idea what your entire first paragraph is about, though.

----------


## Aahz

> When people ask for Damian's look's to reflect his heritage, they understand that there are people who pass. However comics are a visual meduim and since we are talking representation it's understandable why fans want Damian to look different from Bruce and the Rest of the Bat boys who have no Asian or middle eastern genes.


Not sure what ethnicity Damians actor is, but he doesn't look middle eastern.

----------


## marhawkman

> Not sure what ethnicity Damians actor is, but he doesn't look middle eastern.


TBH, there isn't really a solid line on a proper ideal of what "Middle Eastern" person should look like.  Would you say Gal Gadot looks Middle Eastern?

Because she is....

But people from Greece and Crete look pretty similar.

----------


## Blue22

Damian is so incredibly mixed that I just can't get too hung up on how he looks between his different portrayals. As long as he's not super pale, I'm always satisfied. Even as a dark skinned POC, I never really understood why the DC fandom chose this character, of all people, to get so heated about when it comes to his skin tone. As if people just forget that not only do light skinned middle eastern people exist, and deserve representation just as much as anyone else, but that the boy is *half white*. Half white and half BATMAN, aka the guy whose genetics are so strong that even his adopted kids look like him. 

Yes, Damian should have some color to him. Yes, it's great that some artists (particularly whoever drew him in that one Ric book) are giving him facial features that match his mixed heritage. But realistically, he shouldn't look anywhere near as dark as he does in all the fanart or in the Wayne Family Adventures comic (which I now hear people call the "correct version" of Damian). Like...I understand the need for diversity and representation. Lord knows adding some color to the Batfamily is never a bad thing. But..I think people really forget that he is still just as white as he is Asian. Between Bruce's genes and everything that makes up the Al-Ghul bloodline (you know...whenever they acknowledge how mixed that gene pool is), he is one of the last characters you wanna start a war over in terms of how they *should* look.

----------


## marhawkman

> Damian is so incredibly mixed that I just can't get too hung up on how he looks between his different portrayals. As long as he's not super pale, I'm always satisfied. Even as a dark skinned POC, I never really understood why the DC fandom chose this character, of all people, to get so heated about when it comes to his skin tone. As if people just forget that not only do light skinned middle eastern people exist, and deserve representation just as much as anyone else, but that the boy is *half white*. Half white and half BATMAN, aka the guy whose genetics are so strong that even his adopted kids look like him. 
> 
> Yes, Damian should have some color to him. Yes, it's great that some artists (particularly whoever drew him in that one Ric book) are giving him facial features that match his mixed heritage. But realistically, he shouldn't look anywhere near as dark as he does in all the fanart or in the Wayne Family Adventures comic (which I now hear people call the "correct version" of Damian). Like...I understand the need for diversity and representation. Lord knows adding some color to the Batfamily is never a bad thing. But..I think people really forget that he is still just as white as he is Asian. Between Bruce's genes and everything that makes up the Al-Ghul bloodline (you know...whenever they acknowledge how mixed that gene pool is), he is one of the last characters you wanna start a war over in terms of how they *should* look.


Yeah, Canonically, what skin tone does Talia have?  Mix that with Bruce and.... you're not getting someone with dark skin.... nope... not gonna happen.

I mean, really... Also, while Bruce is less pale than most  "white" guys, still not dark though.

----------


## Fergus

> A ton of people asking aren't Middle Eastern in the slightest. They're primarily white and/or other minorities who aren't very knowledgeable on the topic.
> 
> No idea what your entire first paragraph is about, though.


Really? How do you know? Did they tell you? Are you just assuming? 

Try again.

----------


## Fergus

> Not sure what ethnicity Damians actor is, but he doesn't look middle eastern.


Don't believe anyone said he was?

----------


## Eckri

So I stumbled upon some threads online about the Injustice 2021 animated movie. 
Unless you guys wants spoilers, all I gotta say. 

Man was the movie different. Like real different.

----------


## Konja7

> It's understand why they complain whenever artists mess up and give him blue eyes instead of green


Damian has white skin and blue eyes first. So, I wouldn't say artists that drawn him that way mess up.

----------


## Konja7

> Really? How do you know? Did they tell you? Are you just assuming? 
> 
> Try again.


Well, we don't have data that most people asking for this are Middle Eastern either, right?

We can see many people who want Damian with darker skin aren't Middle Eastern (I don't know if they are the majority).

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> Really? How do you know? Did they tell you? Are you just assuming? 
> 
> Try again.


You're not a very good troll. Because this works for your entire argument as well. The difference is that I've actually interacted with Middle Eastern people who've said this stuff.

----------


## adrikito

Damian costumes evolution:

Damian Wayne Robin costume Evolution.jpg

----------


## Blue22

2 and 5 will always be the best.

----------


## Light of Justice

> So I stumbled upon some threads online about the Injustice 2021 animated movie. 
> Unless you guys wants spoilers, all I gotta say. 
> 
> Man was the movie different. Like real different.


*spoilers:*
 I can't believe they made "Damian killing Dick moment" way worse than it already is. There's no single rock, just plain baton in the forehead! 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Eckri

> *spoilers:*
>  I can't believe they made "Damian killing Dick moment" way worse than it already is. There's no single rock, just plain baton in the forehead! 
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
To be fair, the rock snap was stupid in the comics. This was at least somewhat less
*end of spoilers*

----------


## adrikito

> *spoilers:*
>  I can't believe they made "Damian killing Dick moment" way worse than it already is. There's no single rock, just plain baton in the forehead! 
> *end of spoilers*


HAPPY to not be interested in this SHIT universe.




> 2 and 5 will always be the best.


In my case 3 and 5.

The 5 the BEST OF THEM in my opinion.

----------


## Light of Justice

> *spoilers:*
> To be fair, the rock snap was stupid in the comics. This was at least somewhat less
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
 But at least neck IS vulnerable place. Baton hit on the forehead should not kill anyone unless it has some kind of prophetic curse like Perseus's discus. Let alone hardened vigilante like Dick, not long time ago he received bullet on his skull and survives. That makes Dick's death way more pathetic than it already is 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Eckri

> *spoilers:*
>  But at least neck IS vulnerable place. Baton hit on the forehead should not kill anyone unless it has some kind of prophetic curse like Perseus's discus. Let alone hardened vigilante like Dick, not long time ago he received bullet on his skull and survives. That makes Dick's death way more pathetic than it already is 
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
Fair point. Tons of ways Dick could have died. If there's any thing I can say about the movie, that I partially like in this movie. Is the Dick-Damian vs Ra's al Ghul fight. That one was surprisingly wholesome. As for the rest of the movie. Yeah. Condensing 5 years and a game into an hour movie, yeah it was lacking
*end of spoilers*

----------


## adrikito

I like this  :Cool: 

https://www.cbr.com/dc-comics-childr...eroes-parents/

Damian Wayne is the son of Bruce Wayne and Talia al Ghul, two parents that have left some massive shadows over Damian's life. Trained from birth to be the best, Damian can easily claim to be his father's superior in many ways, even if he has to learn to control his temper. He's completely divorced himself from the al Ghul legacy, instead choosing to do good.

*Damian is proving superior to both his parents in many ways*, becoming a better hero with every moment he spends out there. His life isn't consumed with a quest for vengeance, like his father, or one for power, like his mother. *He has chosen this life, which makes him better than either.*

----------


## Drako

> I like this 
> 
> https://www.cbr.com/dc-comics-childr...eroes-parents/
> 
> Damian Wayne is the son of Bruce Wayne and Talia al Ghul, two parents that have left some massive shadows over Damian's life. Trained from birth to be the best, Damian can easily claim to be his father's superior in many ways, even if he has to learn to control his temper. He's completely divorced himself from the al Ghul legacy, instead choosing to do good.
> 
> *Damian is proving superior to both his parents in many ways*, becoming a better hero with every moment he spends out there. His life isn't consumed with a quest for vengeance, like his father, or one for power, like his mother. *He has chosen this life, which makes him better than either.*


I liked this list, except for number 4, which is completely bogus.

----------


## adrikito

> I liked this list, except for number 4, which is completely bogus.


I think that is weird too.. If he was much lower than that maybe I would believe it. 

He has only existed for 5 YEARS. There are characters in this list who deserve be more above.


In case someone is interested in read it. Apparently Both characters origins are a complete reverse:

https://screenrant.com/robin-flatlin...e-opponent-dc/

----------


## HsssH

Jon is Superman for like 5 issues so far and he is already better than his father, lol.

----------


## adrikito

> Jon is Superman for like 5 issues so far and he is already better than his father, lol.


And *IS NOT the first time that I read That he is better than KAL*.. I can´t believe that is as Easy as that Overcome 80 years of Superman existence. Hahahaa.



I am listening that Injustice film is... TERRIBLE. Fortunately I had 0 interest in it.

A little more than 1 hour film where the characters die and you forget them easily or you can´t see character developing or anything and...

*spoilers:*
That the Villain is Ra´s not Superman?? WTF??
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Fergus

> And *IS NOT the first time that I read That he is better than KAL*.. I can´t believe that is as Easy as that Overcome 80 years of Superman existence. Hahahaa.
> 
> 
> 
> I am listening that Injustice film is... TERRIBLE. Fortunately I had 0 interest in it.
> 
> A little more than 1 hour film where the characters die and you forget them easily or you can´t see character developing or anything and...
> 
> *spoilers:*
> ...


Ra's was the Big Bad in Injustice 2. Damian defeated him.

----------


## Micael

Question for anyone that knows. 

Where was Damian born and should he have an accent?

----------


## Fergus

> Question for anyone that knows. 
> 
> Where was Damian born and should he have an accent?


Not sure where he was born.

Damian would speak the Queen's English like all most kids who had the best education money can buy so he would not have an accent. Just eloquent and clear.

----------


## Blue22

> Question for anyone that knows. 
> 
> Where was Damian born and should he have an accent?


The Al Ghuls have so many bases of operation all over the place, I don't think it's ever been revealed where he was born and raised. As for the accent...I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if English isn't his first language. But I always kinda assumed he was so good at everything he speaks that he can pretty much have whatever accent he wants to have. It fits right in with that voice mimicking skill that people just kinda...forgot about. So I could see him having a standard American accent. Maybe with a little posh.

----------


## Darkspellmaster

So okay, from what I was reading, part of the original plan with 5G was for Damian and Jon to be Magento and Professor X. It looks like that may be moving over to Jay as there's hints that  he wants Jon to be more "superior" in aspects, and some think Jon's going to be a century baby. Which brings up the question of if Damian meets Jay is he going to key into the idea that Jay isn't exactly all that he seems and would DC use this to push them farther apart as friends, or actually use it to bring them closer as Damian would probably be pissed that, well the boy who (even if he's older) is still a person he considers a best friend (Taylor said they're like brothers so there's still a close connection there which needs to be explored more even with the age gap) is being betrayed if they go the Jay as Magneto route. I'm wondering how Williams plays this going forward regarding Jon visiting Robin (as Damian can visit Jon's book) and if he's going to meet Jay and read something into him. 

Could make for an interesting arc in regard to the two having a connection and how Robin reacts to seeing Superman get betrayed by someone he trusted (given that it's happened to Damian in the past himself with his Mom at the very least).

----------


## Astralabius

> The Al Ghuls have so many bases of operation all over the place, I don't think it's ever been revealed where he was born and raised. As for the accent...I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if English isn't his first language. But I always kinda assumed he was so good at everything he speaks that he can pretty much have whatever accent he wants to have. It fits right in with that voice mimicking skill that people just kinda...forgot about. So I could see him having a standard American accent. Maybe with a little posh.


Pretty sure he was born and raised on Infinity Island, the island that got destroyed in Robin: Son of Batman. Which didn't belong to any country and his teachers came from all over the world, so yeah...who knows.
We do know that Damian speaks chinese and he is part chinese on Talia's side, but I'm fairly sure we saw him understanding arab at some point too.

----------


## adrikito

> Ra's was the Big Bad in Injustice 2. Damian defeated him.


WHHHAAAAT?? So what I saw in the trailer was maybe the final battle?

Damian is not like Injustice I damian or changed his mind in the final moment??

Anyway. Knowing HOW HATED is this film before the REAL RELEASE maybe I should not be happy about it

----------


## Blue22

My friend pretty much told me everything that happens. The movie just...doesn't sound very good. But from what I've heard, it does do better by Damian than the original Injustice story.

----------


## adrikito

DAMN... I can´t believe that Superkid has his 1st kiss before Damian..

Damijon will turn even more annoying after this. Watching Damian twitter Tag I blocked 2 Damijons. One who made porn with Both.  :Frown: 




> My friend pretty much told me everything that happens. The movie just...doesn't sound very good. But from what I've heard, it does do better by Damian than the original Injustice story.


I see.. How bad that is a Bad Movie.. If his role is too important here(I do not know) can maybe make some people think that is in part his fault.  :Frown:

----------


## Blue22

> DAMN... I can´t believe that Superkid has his 1st kiss before Damian.


Jay's not his first kiss. Saturn Girl is.

----------


## adrikito

> Jay's not his first kiss. Saturn Girl is.


What?? Legion of Superheroes. right??

And Damian lost his chance in TT.

Anyway. Different characters. One obtained the father role and... Watching Damian try to avoid the BATLEGACY I am now against Damian as Batman. Is a Terrible Life.


He would avoid be BALD avoiding be Batman.. Hahaha. Just remember how cool he looked in Batman Beyond.

----------


## adrikito

I read that Superboy ship will be in NOVEMBER.. So in theory Damian won here. Is just that DC was making Propaganda about this.

Flatline sketches. Under her I think that I see Rose. I see a girl head with a sword 
Robin 2021 Damian Flatline Rose Roger Cruz sketches.jpg

----------


## Fergus

> What?? Legion of Superheroes. right??
> 
> And Damian lost his chance in TT.
> 
> Anyway. Different characters. One obtained the father role and... Watching Damian try to avoid the BATLEGACY I am now against Damian as Batman. Is a Terrible Life.
> 
> 
> He would avoid be BALD avoiding be Batman.. Hahaha. Just remember how cool he looked in Batman Beyond.


I like Bald Damian and it isn't a competition to see who kisses a girl first. Damian had his first kiss with a pirate Princess in Supersons off screen before Jon was aged up.

----------


## Fergus

> So okay, from what I was reading, part of the original plan with 5G was for Damian and Jon to be Magento and Professor X. It looks like that may be moving over to Jay as there's hints that  he wants Jon to be more "superior" in aspects, and some think Jon's going to be a century baby. Which brings up the question of if Damian meets Jay is he going to key into the idea that Jay isn't exactly all that he seems and would DC use this to push them farther apart as friends, or actually use it to bring them closer as Damian would probably be pissed that, well the boy who (even if he's older) is still a person he considers a best friend (Taylor said they're like brothers so there's still a close connection there which needs to be explored more even with the age gap) is being betrayed if they go the Jay as Magneto route. I'm wondering how Williams plays this going forward regarding Jon visiting Robin (as Damian can visit Jon's book) and if he's going to meet Jay and read something into him. 
> 
> Could make for an interesting arc in regard to the two having a connection and how Robin reacts to seeing Superman get betrayed by someone he trusted (given that it's happened to Damian in the past himself with his Mom at the very least).


I want Jon to tell Damian about Jay but I don't want Damian to get involved in Jon Kent's affairs or series.

too many fans thanks to the popularity of Supersons started to view Damian as part of a duo or in regards to his Supersons dynamic.

It was a positive when they were separated. Now it's time for Damian to do his thing and Jon to establish himself away from Damian's shadow.

i want Robin to focus on Damian and building up his lore and relationship.
I want Son of Kal El to focus on building up Jon's lore and relationship

----------


## adrikito

> I like Bald Damian and it isn't a competition to see who kisses a girl first. Damian had his first kiss with a pirate Princess in Supersons off screen before Jon was aged up.


We do not know what kind of kiss... Maybe a check kiss.

I was just saying that Damian existed for more time and that Superkid is moving faster.. Despite is not always a good thing and I am happy to not have one Damian called Batboy now or in Jace place now as Batman.


Talking about Damian I found one PORTUGESE WEBSITE that was yesterday praising his Robin serie and even hoping that is as long as its predecessor(I think that Talking about Tim Robin serie that had +100 issues):

https://www.popsfera.com.br/gibis-la...-damian-wayne/

----------


## GhostCryptid13

In Damian’s defense he’s always been a sort of late-bloomer lol. Personally I don’t want him to have a girl or boyfriend yet, it doesn’t feel right.

----------


## adrikito

> I want Jon to tell Damian about Jay but I don't want Damian to get involved in Jon Kent's affairs or series.
> 
> too many fans thanks to the popularity of Supersons started to view Damian as part of a duo or in regards to his Supersons dynamic.
> 
> It was a positive when they were separated. Now it's time for Damian to do his thing and Jon to establish himself away from Damian's shadow.
> 
> i want Robin to focus on Damian and building up his lore and relationship.
> I want Son of Kal El to focus on building up Jon's lore and relationship


IS NORMAL.. Batman always had a Robin and for this sees him as a Duo part(Being Dick Grayson Robin helped here too) is something that the people made even before SS was introduced.

Yeah.. I hope that Robin continues here during Long time to develop the character a lot.. Teen Titans was a mistake that made Damian lose Djinn and his leadership for the same character fault.. Crush.  :Frown:  Fortunately I stopped reading it after he left. 

Anyway. 2 more Weeks to reach the kiss moment and see how this will start.

----------


## Harryrun

Rumor has it that Wayne family adventures live action has been canceled. Nothing confirmed.
https://twitter.com/Croc_Block/statu...0P4pW5qmQ&s=19

----------


## adrikito

> Rumor has it that Wayne family adventures live action has been canceled. Nothing confirmed.
> https://twitter.com/Croc_Block/statu...0P4pW5qmQ&s=19


DAMN... I liked the last issue a lot and had a lot of interest in this.

----------


## Fergus

> In Damians defense hes always been a sort of late-bloomer lol. Personally I dont want him to have a girl or boyfriend yet, it doesnt feel right.


Yeah Damian is a late bloomer and one who has to also contend with adapting to normal society/relationships. I was blindsided by the DamianXRaven romance.

I do however feel like he might be ready since we've seen 5 different versions of the character in a relationship.

----------


## Fergus

> We do not know what kind of kiss... Maybe a check kiss.
> 
> I was just saying that Damian existed for more time and that Superkid is moving faster.. Despite is not always a good thing and I am happy to not have one Damian called Batboy now or in Jace place now as Batman.
> 
> 
> Talking about Damian I found one PORTUGESE WEBSITE that was yesterday praising his Robin serie and even hoping that is as long as its predecessor(I think that Talking about Tim Robin serie that had +100 issues):
> 
> https://www.popsfera.com.br/gibis-la...-damian-wayne/


Yeah a lot of critics and channels have been praising the Robin series. Consistently calling it the best bat book currently on the shelves and I couldn't agree more.

It definitely isn't getting the attention it deserves imo Same thing happened with RSOB which gained significantly in popularity after it ended due to word of mouth.

Tim's solo stories went up to about 200 and Dick had over 100.

----------


## Fergus

> Rumor has it that Wayne family adventures live action has been canceled. Nothing confirmed.
> https://twitter.com/Croc_Block/statu...0P4pW5qmQ&s=19


It wasn't an official Dc production apparently.

----------


## Darkspellmaster

> Rumor has it that Wayne family adventures live action has been canceled. Nothing confirmed.
> https://twitter.com/Croc_Block/statu...0P4pW5qmQ&s=19


Makes more sense animated honestly.

----------


## Darkspellmaster

> Yeah Damian is a late bloomer and one who has to also contend with adapting to normal society/relationships. I was blindsided by the DamianXRaven romance.
> 
> I do however feel like he might be ready since we've seen 5 different versions of the character in a relationship.


It depends if DC wants him to. They could go Jughead route and just have him not interested in anyone.

----------


## Jackalope89

> It depends if DC wants him to. They could go Jughead route and just have him not interested in anyone.


Comic Jughead (Riverdale is, something else entirely and we don't talk about it) is, I guess the word would be "burger-sexual". There was one issue where he went on a date with a woman whose job was to be the burger mascot. By the end of the issue, Jughead wanted the burger costume over everything else.

----------


## Rac7d*

> It wasn't an official Dc production apparently.


It would have been too great so sad

----------


## adrikito

> Yeah Damian is a late bloomer and one who has to also contend with adapting to normal society/relationships. I was blindsided by the DamianXRaven romance.
> 
> I do however feel like he might be ready since we've seen 5 different versions of the character in a relationship.


5 Damian versions??? Wow..

I only know is DamiRAE... About *Dceased Damian&WW*. *Injustice Damian&Supergirl* and about that *Alexis Luthor and a Damian*..

The last of them is that Damian in Raven&BB novel?  :Confused: 




> Yeah a lot of critics and channels have been praising the Robin series. Consistently calling it the best bat book currently on the shelves and I couldn't agree more.
> 
> It definitely isn't getting the attention it deserves imo Same thing happened with RSOB which gained significantly in popularity after it ended due to word of mouth.
> 
> Tim's solo stories went up to about 200 and Dick had over 100.


YEAH. These days DC is only interested *in make a lot of propaganda* about movies or Comic Events or when someone is confirmed as BI for example.. Or is what I saw with Tim and Jon. 

In the 2nd case I though that it was one serie issue preview(that would be out this week) but that will not be out until November.


I am not watching the rest of BATBooks(only nightwing sometimes) but I would not be surprised if is the BEST in this moment. RSOB being cancelled for REBIRTH was something really sad. 

*Hoping that* another Stupid Event does not make the same with ROBIN and t*hey finally see Damian potential and this reaches minimum 30 issues.* He did not needed the SON OF BATMAN(bait) for that this time.

*Hoping that Williamson works makes him able to continue... He has a lot of work currently and will start in a batman run soon.*

----------


## Darkspellmaster

> 5 Damian versions??? Wow..
> 
> I only know is DamiRAE... About *Dceased Damian&WW*. *Injustice Damian&Supergirl* and about that *Alexis Luthor and a Damian*..
> 
> The last of them is that Damian in Raven&BB novel? 
> 
> 
> 
> YEAH. These days DC is only interested *in make a lot of propaganda* about movies or Comic Events or when someone is confirmed as BI for example.. Or is what I saw with Tim and Jon. 
> ...


I expect him to at least keep Damian involved in it. Not sure how many characters he's going to bring over. While I think it's one of the best reviewed books, the fact that the Webtoon series is pulling in a lot of readers too. As for how many Damians there are. 

Original 
Batman Beyond 
Injustice
SuperSon's graphic novel
Animated Damian from the animated movies
Webtoon version
Live action for the Titans show
Young Justice Damian (counting it since it's clear he's going to be coming into play in the near future)
Kid Damian as part of the batman shorts done during the New 52
Animated SuperSon's movie

I'm not sure if we can count it, but the version that was going to be part of an animated show that got cancelled. but I'm counting it
Damian on the animated show that never came out

So we actually have 11 versions of Damian that exist.

----------


## Darkspellmaster

> Comic Jughead (Riverdale is, something else entirely and we don't talk about it) is, I guess the word would be "burger-sexual". There was one issue where he went on a date with a woman whose job was to be the burger mascot. By the end of the issue, Jughead wanted the burger costume over everything else.


I mean yes, that's a good way of explaining it. In the case of Damian I just never saw him as being invested in relationships the same way that say Dick was.

----------


## Digifiend

> It wasn't an official Dc production apparently.


Then how did it get as far as it did before getting cease and desisted? They should never have seen a camera.  :EEK!:

----------


## marhawkman

> I mean yes, that's a good way of explaining it. In the case of Damian I just never saw him as being invested in relationships the same way that say Dick was.


For me it's more of, "he wasn't in situations where romance applied".  Damian is often the "new guy" and doesn't have any romance sub-plot at all.

----------


## Rac7d*

> I mean yes, that's a good way of explaining it. In the case of Damian I just never saw him as being invested in relationships the same way that say Dick was.


well yeah he was 10, and social skills were 0
and by teen titans id give him a 5, hes lucky djinn liked him so much at first
Flatline might be the first one i can see going anywhere, if she stick around

----------


## garazza

I never liked the idea of Damian being in a relationship, but it never crossed my mind until now of codifying that into making him asexual, which I'm totally on board for.

Some may say that just because Damian may not have been ready to explore relationships a few years ago doesn't mean he can't start exploring them now, but I disagree. Any other character that was introduced as young as Damian, thus leaving no opportunity or  need to explore romance with them, who grew as a character a comparable amount in a comparable amount of time, I'd be OK with them exploring romantic relationships because they aren't Damian. I believe it is endemic to Damian's character that he has no desire to have a relationship with someone. If we were to apply Damian's publication history in terms of his aging and growth to the other Robins, now would be a good time to start telling stories about potential romances and love interests, not because they should, but because it would be the natural progression for the other Robins' characters, but not Damian's.

Funnily enough, a lot of Damian's stories already deal with relationships, platonic ones. Damian doesn't have love interests, he has friend interests. Colin, Maya, Jon. Those are the characters whose relationship with Damian people want to see explored because Damian's journey has been all about developing his social and people skills, not romantic skills, and no, romantic skills are not covered by those other two. If you want to read stories of Damian exploring his romantic feelings, there's a thing called fanfiction. Make them yourself.

----------


## Eckri

I'll throw my coin into this regarding Damian and romantic interests.

1.) If the gods of Editorial DC decided to let Damian have a main verse love interest, let's be honest it'll sink. Dick has Babs, Starfire and etc. Jason has Rose, Artemis, and etc. Tim has Steph, Kon, and etc. And you really want Damian to odd on that list? The love interest they're going to pair him up will just be love interest#1, to replaced by another writer with love interest#2. Really depending on the writer, and editorial. A love interest in comics won't last unless they're super popular. Unfortunately, the Robins has popular relationships but won't last. He'll be like the rest of brothers, which, let's be real, we don't want.

Another way, is basically, letting Damian have one love interest. And that's it. No replacement by a writer, and mandated by the higher ups. Damian has a single love interest, just not to lob him with his brothers. But this is comics, Damian having a replaceable is more likely than having one. 

2.) Just don't have him in relationship. Damian so far is just a kid who wants to have friends, and stable family bonding. Like the other guy said.

----------


## Darkspellmaster

> I never liked the idea of Damian being in a relationship, but it never crossed my mind until now of codifying that into making him asexual, which I'm totally on board for.
> 
> Some may say that just because Damian may not have been ready to explore relationships a few years ago doesn't mean he can't start exploring them now, but I disagree. Any other character that was introduced as young as Damian, thus leaving no opportunity or  need to explore romance with them, who grew as a character a comparable amount in a comparable amount of time, I'd be OK with them exploring romantic relationships because they aren't Damian. I believe it is endemic to Damian's character that he has no desire to have a relationship with someone. If we were to apply Damian's publication history in terms of his aging and growth to the other Robins, now would be a good time to start telling stories about potential romances and love interests, not because they should, but because it would be the natural progression for the other Robins' characters, but not Damian's.
> 
> Funnily enough, a lot of Damian's stories already deal with relationships, platonic ones. Damian doesn't have love interests, he has friend interests. Colin, Maya, Jon. Those are the characters whose relationship with Damian people want to see explored because Damian's journey has been all about developing his social and people skills, not romantic skills, and no, romantic skills are not covered by those other two. If you want to read stories of Damian exploring his romantic feelings, there's a thing called fanfiction. Make them yourself.


I think this is an important factor, the only character he ever showed interest in, and it was more possibly a crush if anything, was Kara, and even then it seemed more kid thinks girl 8s pretty and went no where.

Elseworlds explorations are fine to me, we've seen a few of them so far, but I agree that Damian is more the Platonic type 9f person and not interested in romance. I would honestly say making him asexual, would be a better move as it becomes a more interesting story to tell and teens that are Ace, that struggle with the "why am I not into anyone " aspect and unsure about themselves would have a character to look to, other than reboot version of Jughead.

----------


## Darkspellmaster

> I'll throw my coin into this regarding Damian and romantic interests.
> 
> 1.) If the gods of Editorial DC decided to let Damian have a main verse love interest, let's be honest it'll sink. Dick has Babs, Starfire and etc. Jason has Rose, Artemis, and etc. Tim has Steph, Kon, and etc. And you really want Damian to odd on that list? The love interest they're going to pair him up will just be love interest#1, to replaced by another writer with love interest#2. Really depending on the writer, and editorial. A love interest in comics won't last unless they're super popular. Unfortunately, the Robins has popular relationships but won't last. He'll be like the rest of brothers, which, let's be real, we don't want.
> 
> Another way, is basically, letting Damian have one love interest. And that's it. No replacement by a writer, and mandated by the higher ups. Damian has a single love interest, just not to lob him with his brothers. But this is comics, Damian having a replaceable is more likely than having one. 
> 
> 2.) Just don't have him in relationship. Damian so far is just a kid who wants to have friends, and stable family bonding. Like the other guy said.


On the plus side writers never have to worry about replacing others and just build up friendships.

----------


## Blue22

I'm not opposed to Damian having a love interest at this point in his life. But if he still went a long time without having one, I wouldn't be complaining either. Frankly, I'm not a huge fan of them already doing something with him and Flatline. Like Eckri said, I'd rather they focused first on fixing Damian's messy family situation and giving him a more stable circle of friends (Come oooonnnn. Bring Colin and Maya back already). Then we can worry about who he's hooking up with. If they really want him to be with Flatline and these solicits haven't just been teasing, I'd rather she at least start out as just a friend. So far I'd hardly even call them that yet.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I'm not opposed to Damian having a love interest at this point in his life. But if he still went a long time without having one, I wouldn't be complaining either. Frankly, I'm not a huge fan of them already doing something with him and Flatline. Like Eckri said, I'd rather they focused first on fixing Damian's messy family situation and giving him a more stable circle of friends (Come oooonnnn. Bring Colin and Maya *and real Jon* back already). Then we can worry about who he's hooking up with. If they really want him to be with Flatline and these solicits haven't just been teasing, I'd rather she at least start out as just a friend. So far I'd hardly even call them that yet.


Fixed the bold for posterity.

Anyway; Damian being asexual, eh don't know. Sure, he has issues going on, but that never stopped his Robin predecessors from finding at least a temporary significant other. Hell, it never stopped Bruce. Besides which, Damian is just getting into his teen years with hormones. And with his personality/background, I can't help but see him with one of two extremes; the regular "good girl", but has spunk (Maps could easily fit this, and to an extent, Djinn could fit this as well) or someone with a darker background like Flatline.

I'm not necessarily saying it has to be one of those two, just along those lines.

----------


## Blue22

Of all the people Damian's been shipped with, either by the fans or DC, Maps has my vote. That would be such a fun dynamic. But then, my favorite DC ship is BBRae so clearly I just like the dark and serious characters being paired with their opposites lol

I like Djinn. I liked the relationship Djinn had with him at the start. But even if they had become official, there's no way in hell it would have lasted and I don't think I'd have wanted it to.




> Fixed the bold for posterity.


I thought about including him but right now I'm just gonna operate under the assumption that he won't be come back from his ill advised space trip. Especially since recent developments mean that we might not be seeing him for a long, loooooooooooooong time. If ever (unless DC's brave enough to acknowledge the fact that younger people can be LGBT too. A lot of media tends to gloss over that)

----------


## Rac7d*

> Of all the people Damian's been shipped with, either by the fans or DC, Maps has my vote. That would be such a fun dynamic. But then, my favorite DC ship is BBRae so clearly I just like the dark and serious characters being paired with their opposites lol


I keep forgetting maps the one who started it all


BBrae was cute, it was nice to see damian have a complete arc, after all the sabotage we had to endure over the last 3 years

but I'm ready to give something a chance, and im glad it has a chance

----------


## Eckri

> I keep forgetting maps the one who started it all


Maps is a fan favorite, rightfully so.

If I'm remembering my Pre-New 52 fan history right. 

Maps brought the ship into popularity post Flash point. Certainly a contender, and fan favorite. Honestly, can't wait for her to be back.

But before that Damian's options ships by the fans were:
Nell Little (Side note, I don't know if that chick in that one Batgirl issue was her, but I'm guessin it was her)
Mari Grayson (Basis was literally on Kingdom Come) 

And we got two gingers

Collin Wilkes (Yep that was a thing, and by gods they were cute) & Irey West (Based on the cancelled Young Justice comic)


really.jpg

Could Have.jpg


Maps just sweep into the field with the hand holding. 

Though, I personally want Irey and Damian to have some sort Superson-isque adventure just to have Dick and Wally's reaction.

----------


## Blue22

> really.jpg


Ha! I love that! Glad I'm not the only one who thinks Jon would initially be a bit jealous of Colin XD

----------


## Rac7d*

81E1EB0E-5D53-4C49-8BBB-AD7FA76B4395.jpg

Still wishing this book was bimonthly

----------


## Blue22

Same. The monthly waits for this, Nightwing, and Static are killing me.

----------


## adrikito

I would like a BI-Monthly Robin too but... Sadly Williamson is too busy with other series too.




> I expect him to at least keep Damian involved in it. Not sure how many characters he's going to bring over. While I think it's one of the best reviewed books, the fact that the Webtoon series is pulling in a lot of readers too. As for how many Damians there are. 
> 
> Animated SuperSon's movie
> 
> I'm not sure if we can count it, but the version that was going to be part of an animated show that got cancelled. but I'm counting it
> Damian on the animated show that never came out
> 
> So we actually have 11 versions of Damian that exist.


Wait.. What? A supersons movie?



Superkid can have a Ship but the people is against Damian having one??  :Confused:  Weird.

In the end the fans will be who will destroy the Ship without matter how good makes Williamson this.  :Frown:  I hope be wrong.

He can resolve his problems with the Batfamily later.

----------


## adrikito

1 of the BEST MOMENTS of that film according youtube.

Screen Shot 10-13-21 at 08.58 AM.jpg

----------


## Darkspellmaster

Would love to see Maps or Irey as a option. Also Lian Harper.

Hell id just like to see a team of younger kids, around Damians age having fun adventures over like Teen Titans situations. Paging Peter David to write it.

If we ever get Jon back, or even an else worlds tale of s YJ like group you could have a good group of friends for him.

Nell from the Batgirl comic
Irey and Jae west
Jon and Chris Kent (yes I still want Chris as part of the Kent family)
Lian Harper
Sin(Black Canary's daughter)
Helen and Harold (Hal) Jordan, neice and nephew of Hal, Helen has cosmic powers, Hal is Airwave
Collin coming back.

Let the boy have friends his own age.

Yes a supersons movie. Its going to be animated

No one said they're okay with Jon already getting a ship person. As with Damian but for different reasons Jon needs to grow before we jump into the deep end with this.

Reason regarding Damian having a love interest is odd is because of his personality. He's not a flirt like Dick, he's not a romantic like Tim or Jason. He's more invested in his friends and getting better than who he's linked to romantically. So it sort of makes sense that one could read him as Asexual. Doesn't mean he can't think a girl (or guy) is pretty, just means he's not really into being attracted in a sexual way to them.

----------


## Eckri

> 1 of the BEST MOMENTS of that film according youtube.
> 
> Screen Shot 10-13-21 at 08.58 AM.jpg


Definitely, one of the best. It wasn't faithful to the comics but I heard a theory that they're going to connect the injustice films with the other recent DC films in a multiverse like series.





> Would love to see Maps or Irey as a option. Also Lian Harper.
> 
> Reason regarding Damian having a love interest is odd is because of his personality. He's not a flirt like Dick, he's not a romantic like Tim or Jason. He's more invested in his friends and getting better than who he's linked to romantically. So it sort of makes sense that one could read him as Asexual. Doesn't mean he can't think a girl (or guy) is pretty, just means he's not really into being attracted in a sexual way to them.


Personal fav is Irey, just because of Wally and Dick's reaction, there's just something entertaining about it. Could be a good substitute with Irey's speed force powers coming into hijinks, sorta like Supersons. Also, weird enough, I could see their interactions like....Darien and Serena. 

Regarding on how Damian might show romantic interest, agreed. Anyone could mistake him as an asexual. Which is another option, and a good alternative, because his other brothers are all hogging the place with their 1+ selection of love interest. Can't be flirtatious as Dick, can't be...whatever Jason is, and can't be Tim's oblivious but cute ordinary way.  

The way of handling on how Damian could be attracted to someone needs to be....unique, or un-orthodox. Like he interacts in a way, that distinguishes him from his brothers. Something like, he interacts but it isn't too romantic but not too platonic. Something in between. Dunno, I can be fine if he's asexual.

----------


## adrikito

> If we ever get Jon back, or even an else worlds tale of s YJ like group you could have a good group of friends for him.


I am sorry for you but... I see it hard. They make him grow, choose his sexuality and even started a ship. All that development would be lost making him a Kid again.

MAPS. I miss her too. She will appear again but sadly we should not wait someting big.

Did not knew that Black Canary had a daughter.



> Yes a supersons movie. Its going to be animated
> 
> No one said they're okay with Jon already getting a ship person. As with Damian but for different reasons Jon needs to grow before we jump into the deep end with this.
> 
> Reason regarding Damian having a love interest is odd is because of his personality. He's not a flirt like Dick, he's not a romantic like Tim or Jason. He's more invested in his friends and getting better than who he's linked to romantically. So it sort of makes sense that one could read him as Asexual. Doesn't mean he can't think a girl (or guy) is pretty, just means he's not really into being attracted in a sexual way to them.


I see. OK. I will not see The film but... Knowing this the images will not surprise me later.

Damian existed for 15 years. He did not had time to Grow as character? 3 lustrums of existence against... 6 years?

Superboy is who received a Crazy growing since was introduced. Despite I do not envy him.. I would not like see Damian suddently reach 18 or 20 years for No Reason. Neither be Batman watching Damian avoiding the Batfamily.. Be Batman is a curse.


I also though that he was Asexual. Others said that to me. But when it was said that Emiko Queen was his first love I saw that there was more in Bruce in him than what I was expecting..
*Is only that I am interested in see how this will happen. Is his first Ship IN CANON. Dick has Barbara and Starfire as girlfriends option.. I know that this will not be forever.*

*
PERSONAL QUESTION.. Is your avatar Spiderman hugging Green Goblin?*  :Confused: 






> Regarding on how Damian might show romantic interest, agreed. Anyone could mistake him as an asexual. 
> 
> The way of handling on how Damian could be attracted to someone needs to be....unique, or un-orthodox. Like he interacts in a way, that distinguishes him from his brothers. Something like, he interacts but it isn't too romantic but not too platonic. Something in between. Dunno, I can be fine if he's asexual.


After the  DAMIRAE I think that is too late to think that he is Asexual. The person who reads him should had ignores the previous universe films and Damirae fanarts.

----------


## Darkspellmaster

> Personal fav is Irey, just because of Wally and Dick's reaction, there's just something entertaining about it. Could be a good substitute with Irey's speed force powers coming into hijinks, sorta like Supersons. Also, weird enough, I could see their interactions like....Darien and Serena. 
> 
> Regarding on how Damian might show romantic interest, agreed. Anyone could mistake him as an asexual. Which is another option, and a good alternative, because his other brothers are all hogging the place with their 1+ selection of love interest. Can't be flirtatious as Dick, can't be...whatever Jason is, and can't be Tim's oblivious but cute ordinary way.  
> 
> The way of handling on how Damian could be attracted to someone needs to be....unique, or un-orthodox. Like he interacts in a way, that distinguishes him from his brothers. Something like, he interacts but it isn't too romantic but not too platonic. Something in between. Dunno, I can be fine if he's asexual.


Irey would be awesome with him. That would be a great dynamic and seeing Wally and Dick probably following them around when they're in civie form just to see what they get up to. Darien and Serena would be a good choice to use for inspiration for them. I kind of wish they too had let him interact with Hal's niece Helen as she's a teaser, and likes to get reactions out of people (like calling Ollie Batman and his face reaction to it), so that might have been fun. 

Agreed Damian can't just be a flirt or like a mini Bruce. Like he can have some of Bruce's skills but he never struck me as a Dick, Jason, or Tim. He's not Mr. Charming, he's not...whatever Jason is (bad boy smirker?) and he's not Tim "blush" at things. He was raised in a very different environment, so part of me wonders if he would see romance as more a way to get information or other things like his mother used it. At the same time, I could see him giving a picture to the person he liked as a way of saying he liked them. Like he can't physically say it or communicate it in words, but does so in art? And yeah that why I was saying Asexual because it just feels like it could fit him. (I'm trying to remember if Aromantic means you can be romantic but not want sex)




> I am sorry for you but... I see it hard. They make him grow, choose his sexuality and even started a ship. All that development would be lost making him a Kid again.


They aged up Bart and then de-aged him, They aged up Chris and then De-aged him. DC has a habit of doing this. You can keep a lot of his development if you make him 13 or 14. Kids that age are going through a lot of emotions and you can have a bi young teen. 




> MAPS. I miss her too. She will appear again but sadly we should not wait someting big.
> 
> Did not knew that Black Canary had a daughter.


She was cool and i hope they can bring her back in some way much earlier. 

Yup Sin was adopted and saved from becoming the next Lady Shiva. She had to be hidden from the League of Assassins as they want to use her to become the next Shiva and basically kill the old one. 





> I see. OK. I will not see The film but... Knowing this the images will not surprise me later.
> 
> Damian existed for 15 years. He did not had time to Grow as character? 3 lustrums of existence against... 6 years?
> 
> Superboy is who received a Crazy growing since was introduced. Despite I do not envy him.. I would not like see Damian suddently reach 18 or 20 years for No Reason. Neither be Batman watching Damian avoiding the Batfamily.. Be Batman is a curse.


We don't even know what the SuperSons movie is going to be about only that it's going to be animated. 

Damian in those 15 years has only grown 4 and he really hasn't matured the same way Dick, Jason and Tim have. It took Tim years to get to the point he's at. Right now I honestly think he needs to focus on building friendships over having a girlfriend or boyfriend. His best friend got aged up, he hasn't seen Maps, or Collin, he's dealt with a lot recently and now he's going on the road with his dad. Letting him mature more would be a good thing, let him be 15 or 16 before we start pairing him up. 

For Jon fans who wanted him to be give time to grow like Damian and the other kids that was taken away. I expect in a few years they're going to age up Damian too. 





> I also though that he was Asexual. Others said that to me. But when it was said that Emiko Queen was his first love I saw that there was more in Bruce in him than what I was expecting..
> *Is only that I am interested in see how this will happen. Is his first Ship IN CANON. Dick has Barbara and Starfire as girlfriends option.. I know that this will not be forever.*
> 
> *
> PERSONAL QUESTION.. Is your avatar Spiderman hugging Green Goblin?* 
> 
> 
> After the  DAMIRAE I think that is too late to think that he is Asexual. The person who reads him should had ignores the previous universe films and Damirae fanarts.


Well it matches how he reacts to things. I mean, again, it could be an interesting take on it. He said the same thing of Supergirl in the past too and they had him in an Elseworld's tale be in love with her (Not sure if it was Injustice or not). Not a huge fan of Emiko and him, but it's more a crush thing than actual love. I'm not sure if Flatline has sticking power, the same way Jay I don't think has sticking power. If anything I think they'll probably go with a non power for him later. 

Avatar is actual spider-girl (May "MayDay" Parker) the daughter of Peter and MJ (who also apparently is a threat to Mephisto) and she's hugging the good Green Goblin, who was Normie Osborn in the MC2 for a bit after he came to help her since she saved him. I have a soft spot for those two as friends and romantic. The latter never happened, he got engaged and married to the Raptor, the second Vulture's daughter. 

What is Damirae?

----------


## Jackalope89

Damirae is the ship name of Damian and Raven, from the animated films. Speaking of which; Raven and Beast Boy are two more that have been aged up and down over the years. And they originally around Dick's age.

----------


## Blue22

And I'm glad they've finally gone back to being Dick's age. I've noticed with their young heroes, DC really has a problem when it comes to who should be getting older and who shouldn't be. 

Jon? Right now? Hell no. That was and will always be a mistake.

Damian and Shazam? Yes, and I like the gradual approach with them. It's the perfect way to do it. Honestly, I'd argue Shazam's been around long enough to justify him getting even older, but then I also realize that they'd need to find a new selling point for him if he's no longer a kid posing as an adult.

Beast Boy and Raven? Never should have been de-aged in the first place. 

Tim's generation? For fuck's sake! Let them be adults, already! Please! When Bart got aged up the same way Jon did, it was a terrible idea and I'm glad it failed. But damn! That doesn't mean I wanted the whole generation to stay frozen in time. Didn't they just confirm that Tim is still sixteen? Despite the fact that Damian's gotten a whole four years older since he was introduced?

----------


## Darkspellmaster

> And I'm glad they've finally gone back to being Dick's age. I've noticed with their young heroes, DC really has a problem when it comes to who should be getting older and who shouldn't be. 
> 
> Jon? Right now? Hell no. That was and will always be a mistake.
> 
> Damian and Shazam? Yes, and I like the gradual approach with them. It's the perfect way to do it. Honestly, I'd argue Shazam's been around long enough to justify him getting even older, but then I also realize that they'd need to find a new selling point for him if he's no longer a kid posing as an adult.
> 
> Beast Boy and Raven? Never should have been de-aged in the first place. 
> 
> Tim's generation? For fuck's sake! Let them be adults, already! Please! When Bart got aged up the same way Jon did, it was a terrible idea and I'm glad it failed. But damn! That doesn't mean I wanted the whole generation to stay frozen in time. Didn't they just confirm that Tim is still sixteen? Despite the fact that Damian's gotten a whole four years older since he was introduced?


Beast Boy and Raven should be closer to Dick or Jason's age like 19 or so. Cyborg, Dick, Babs, Kori, Tempest, et all, should be in their mid 20s at oldest. Jason should just be a year or so younger than Dick so if Dick is 25/26 then jason should be like 23/24. 

Jon, Damian, Irey, Jae, Lian and Helen should all be about the same age between 12 and 14 maybe 15

Tim's generation should be like 17 to 19 or 20 at oldest maybe 21 for Kon.  Yes they did, again, which is very dumb in in general. And it's going to end up where Tim's going to be younger than Damian at some point. Not to mention Duke which people forget about who was supposed to be only a few years older than Damian like one or two years.

----------


## adrikito

> They aged up Bart and then de-aged him, They aged up Chris and then De-aged him. DC has a habit of doing this. You can keep a lot of his development if you make him 13 or 14. Kids that age are going through a lot of emotions and you can have a bi young teen.


I think that with Supergirl too. I think that she had 17 in N52 and 16 YEARS in rebirth(WTF..) but... 

What is the point in call him SuperMAN and then make him a SuperBOY again making him younger?  :Confused:  Anyway. Nothing is FOREVER or Dick Grayson would continue as Batman. 

Yes. Probably in 2-3 years he will be called Superboy again and Clark will be the only superman again. Same with Batman and Wonderwoman.




> She was cool and i hope they can bring her back in some way much earlier. 
> 
> Yup Sin was adopted and saved from becoming the next Lady Shiva. She had to be hidden from the League of Assassins as they want to use her to become the next Shiva and basically kill the old one.


Adoptive one.. Of course. I was stupid thinking that she had a real daughter. But existing cases like Roy I though that it was possible





> We don't even know what the SuperSons movie is going to be about only that it's going to be animated. 
> 
> Damian in those 15 years has only grown 4 and he really hasn't matured the same way Dick, Jason and Tim have. It took Tim years to get to the point he's at. Right now I honestly think he needs to focus on building friendships over having a girlfriend or boyfriend. His best friend got aged up, he hasn't seen Maps, or Collin, he's dealt with a lot recently and now he's going on the road with his dad. Letting him mature more would be a good thing, let him be 15 or 16 before we start pairing him up. 
> 
> For Jon fans who wanted him to be give time to grow like Damian and the other kids that was taken away. I expect in a few years they're going to age up Damian too.


Friendships?? Rose and Connor could be Damian friends in this comic but... I heard here many times that DC ends breaking Damian friendships. I prefer enjoys what I see coming(the ship) until they break someday or something happens like this comic ending separating them.

Have 13-14 did not stopped the fans not give him canon&no canon ships fanarts&fanfics.. Why the editorial can´t make it now when they have been trying it since he had 13?

Blame DC and... I think that DIDIO G5. Who wanted Damian and him be enemies with Damian taking the Villain role. Apparently the crazy growing was his fault not a Bendis crazy idea.




> Well it matches how he reacts to things. I mean, again, it could be an interesting take on it. He said the same thing of Supergirl in the past too and they had him in an Elseworld's tale be in love with her (Not sure if it was Injustice or not). Not a huge fan of Emiko and him, but it's more a crush thing than actual love. I'm not sure if Flatline has sticking power, the same way Jay I don't think has sticking power. If anything I think they'll probably go with a non power for him later. 
> 
> Avatar is actual spider-girl (May "MayDay" Parker) the daughter of Peter and MJ (who also apparently is a threat to Mephisto) and she's hugging the good Green Goblin, who was Normie Osborn in the MC2 for a bit after he came to help her since she saved him. I have a soft spot for those two as friends and romantic. The latter never happened, he got engaged and married to the Raptor, the second Vulture's daughter. 
> 
> What is Damirae?


I said it above.. I only want to enjoy this comic&ship as while as I can. *Robin:Son of Batman* was cancelled before the expected for rebirth fault and we were unable to learn about Maya past.. Who knows if this comic will have a similar fate because of a Future DC event fault.  :Mad: 

Not sure what to think about these ships.. Tim and Steph looked like the Perfect Ship and was broken by DC.. Despite I saw some people saying that this Tim boyfriend has many things in common with Steph(blond, blue eyes, part of his personality) like if Steph suddently turned in a guy.

Ahhh.. Sorry.. Watching these colors I was only able to think in Green Goblin..

*DamiRae.. Is the Ship between Damian and Raven* that started in the previous DC animated Films world. They even kissed.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Damirae is the ship name of Damian and Raven, from the animated films. Speaking of which; Raven and Beast Boy are two more that have been aged up and down over the years. And they originally around Dick's age.


Raven was dicks's agem then at some point she died and came back beast boys age he has for the first time been made of legal adult age this year

----------


## CPSparkles

I don't mind Damian getting a love interest. We've seen him in relationships so we know it's not Out of character.

----------


## adrikito

> I don't mind Damian getting a love interest. We've seen him in relationships so we know it's not Out of character.


Yeah.. You are right in that.

I think that after the DamiRae one Damian with a girlfriend could not be considered something crazy.

I liked his dynamic with Supergirl in Injustice comic.

----------


## Morgoth

Damian and Jon are getting Super Sons (now called Superman and Robin) special in January, Tomasi is writing it. It's not clear if this is the beginning of a new series, or just one shot.
That Jimenez cover with Damian and Jon was exactly for this.

----------


## garazza

> Damian and Jon are getting Super Sons (now called Superman and Robin) special in January, Tomasi is writing it. It's not clear if this is the beginning of a new series, or just one shot.
> That Jimenez cover with Damian and Jon was exactly for this.


Well...guess it's time for me to tap out. If they got Tomasi, I ain't got a leg to stand on anymore. RIP to the real Jon Kent, we hardly knew ye.

I'll buy the issue solely because Tomasi's name is on it. He's one of those writers I'll get anything from. Plus, Vik Bogdanovic is also drawing the issue, so that's cool, I guess.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Damian and Jon are getting Super Sons (now called Superman and Robin) special in January, Tomasi is writing it. It's not clear if this is the beginning of a new series, or just one shot.
> That Jimenez cover with Damian and Jon was exactly for this.


If the sales are good DC might get the message

----------


## Blue22

> Well...guess it's time for me to tap out. If they got Tomasi, I ain't got a leg to stand on anymore. RIP to the real Jon Kent, we hardly knew ye.
> .


Same. Not even a Tomasi written Super Sons reunion can get me on board with this. The fact that they even made a point to say they're not Super Sons anymore is just...eh. No thanks. Not even checking this out.

----------


## Artemisfanboy

> Well...guess it's time for me to tap out. If they got Tomasi, I ain't got a leg to stand on anymore. RIP to the real Jon Kent, we hardly knew ye.
> 
> I'll buy the issue solely because Tomasi's name is on it. He's one of those writers I'll get anything from. Plus, Vik Bogdanovic is also drawing the issue, so that's cool, I guess.


I'm not. I figured DC would probably try something like this eventually. But I want Jon de-aged and it's not negotiable. It doesn't matter if they got Tomasi to write it. You're giving up too easy I think.

They want to try and get the Super-Sons fans onboard, without actually giving us what we want, by trying to convince us that it can work with the aged up Jon. But it can't. It isn't going to have anything resembling the dynamic I liked and want back. Damian being 14 and Jon being 18 means it can't be the same and isn't going to be on top of the fact this Jon spent 7 years separated from everyone including Daiman being tortured in another universe. It's going to awkward as hell with age difference plus them either ignoring the circumstances of Jon or trying to adress it. It simply isn't going to work or be acceptable.

They hope Tomasi can give it a veneer of legitimacy, but it doesn't in my eyes. He has to work with what they give him, and I don't want what they given him to work with.

So, no. I'm not supporting this, just like I refuse to support anything else with an aged up Jon. I want him de-aged and the most I'm willing to compromise to is him being de-aged to Damian's age of 13-14. This is the first Super-Sons project I have to flat out reject and hope to fail, sadly, but it seems that DC is determined to try everything to get aged up Jon an audience and learn the hard way that I, and hopefully most other people, don't want aged up Jon. The ball is sadly in DC's court and they want to be stubborn about this.

----------


## Blue22

In MUCH more interesting Damian related news...

*spoilers:*
Everyone who called Mother Blood being his grandmother was...almost right. Great grandmother. Close enough. Not gonna lie, even when people were speculating it, I was thinking "ain't no way in hell they're gonna make the Al Ghul bloodline even more fucked up" but they did lol

Looking forward to see how that plays out
*end of spoilers*

----------


## garazza

> I'm not. I figured DC would probably try something like this eventually. But I want Jon de-aged and it's not negotiable. It doesn't matter if they got Tomasi to write it. You're giving up too easy I think.
> 
> They want to try and get the Super-Sons fans onboard, without actually giving us what we want, by trying to convince us that it can work with the aged up Jon. But it can't. It isn't going to have anything resembling the dynamic I liked and want back. Damian being 14 and Jon being 18 means it can't be the same and isn't going to be on top of the fact this Jon spent 7 years separated from everyone including Daiman being tortured in another universe. It's going to awkward as hell with age difference plus them either ignoring the circumstances of Jon or trying to adress it. It simply isn't going to work or be acceptable.
> 
> They hope Tomasi can give it a veneer of legitimacy, but it doesn't in my eyes. He has to work with what they give him, and I don't want what they given him to work with.
> 
> So, no. I'm not supporting this, just like I refuse to support anything else with an aged up Jon. I want him de-aged and the most I'm willing to compromise to is him being de-aged to Damian's age of 13-14. This is the first Super-Sons project I have to flat out reject and hope to fail, sadly, but it seems that DC is determined to try everything to get aged up Jon an audience and learn the hard way that I, and hopefully most other people, don't want aged up Jon. The ball is sadly in DC's court and they want to be stubborn about this.


Repost from the Jon thread:




> You're right, I was very easily swayed by Tomasi's name. He's been my litmus test through this entire ordeal. His leaving DC with the presumption it was because of the age up, or at least that the age up was significant contributing factor, was a major feather in our cap for de-legitimizing the age up. Like I said, I'll buy anything with his name on it, but I forgot the man is a professional writer. Most writers would write books they creatively disagree with if they were paid enough, as I'm sure Tomasi was offered something pretty sweet for him to come back, even if it is for one issue. 
> 
> I'm glad I'm not in this fight alone because seeing others just as vehemently opposed to the age up as I am reminds me exactly what we're fighting for and how we fight for it. Thank you.

----------


## Restingvoice

I'm so hyped that we're getting that side of the family told since not too long ago we talked about the al Ghul's heritage

----------


## garazza

Man, I think Williamson is on his way to being one of the all time greats at DC. He has his fingers in so many different pots in the DC universe and yet they're all tasteful and respectful expansions of it the likes of which haven't been seen since Denny O'Neil was the Bat-editor that it quite literally puts his contemporaries to shame for how poorly and inappropriately some of them have contributed.

----------


## Blue22

Yeah he is really knocking it out of the park right now. I can't wait for his Batman run.

----------


## Digifiend

> I think that with Supergirl too. I think that she had 17 in N52 and 16 YEARS in rebirth(WTF..) but... 
> 
> Adoptive one.. Of course. I was stupid thinking that she had a real daughter. But existing cases like Roy I though that it was possible


Supergirl is 21 now, as of Woman of Tomorrow.

Dinah is basically Roy's stepmother too. Oliver once called her that in a pre-Flashpoint issue of JLA, when talking to Roy.

----------


## adrikito

> Damian and Jon are getting Super Sons (now called Superman and Robin) special in January, Tomasi is writing it. It's not clear if this is the beginning of a new series, or just one shot.
> That Jimenez cover with Damian and Jon was exactly for this.


DC is teasing the Damijon or something?? I saw them a lot of times these days in twitter saying that make one BI and add a random boyfriend is not enough for them.. and I was only watching Damian tag.


DC maybe choosed a bad moment to ship both. The Flatline ship will suffer a little.. Without start and one Damijon already insulted the ship with one image.. Despite the image made Damian look like the hated here.




> Supergirl is 21 now, as of Woman of Tomorrow.
> 
> Dinah is basically Roy's stepmother too. Oliver once called her that in a pre-Flashpoint issue of JLA, when talking to Roy.


WOW.. Awesome. Happy for it. It was weird make Kara and her nephew have a similar age.




> In MUCH more interesting Damian related news...
> 
> *spoilers:*
> Everyone who called Mother Blood being his grandmother was...almost right. Great grandmother. Close enough. Not gonna lie, even when people were speculating it, I was thinking "ain't no way in hell they're gonna make the Al Ghul bloodline even more fucked up" but they did lol
> 
> Looking forward to see how that plays out
> *end of spoilers*


Where did you found this?? I saw this possible too but... I was focused in how similar to Talia looks the character to choose the other option.


*QUESTION.. NO ROBIN solicitation in JANUARY??*   :Mad:  One friend told me that it could be delayed watching that is posted finishing every month.

----------


## Astralabius

No need to get angry, the full solicitations simply aren't out yet.

----------


## adrikito

AHHH.. I see. You saw the solicitation. I had to use twitter to find it thanks to one twitter user that I know

Robin 10 Damian Wayne Robin.jpg

----------


## Astralabius

> Same. Not even a Tomasi written Super Sons reunion can get me on board with this. The fact that they even made a point to say they're not Super Sons anymore is just...eh. No thanks. Not even checking this out.


Same. I lost all interest in Jon at this point. Not even Tomasi is going to make me read this.

----------


## adrikito

WTF.. Damian has not these strong arms that has in this Supersons comic cover.  :Confused: 

https://mobile.twitter.com/JorgeJime...91943245451264

----------


## HsssH

> In MUCH more interesting Damian related news...
> 
> *spoilers:*
> Everyone who called Mother Blood being his grandmother was...almost right. Great grandmother. Close enough. Not gonna lie, even when people were speculating it, I was thinking "ain't no way in hell they're gonna make the Al Ghul bloodline even more fucked up" but they did lol
> 
> Looking forward to see how that plays out
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
Doesn't this basically mean that it wasn't Ra's who discovered Lazarus pit? I don't really like that.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## adrikito

One STUPID THEORY that was mentioned before..

You see that Above Talia there is one circle(one EMPTY LIGHT) in the tree??

I see it a little weird... Unless in the end they want to confirm later that Respawn is her son and this is a clue about it.

----------


## Restingvoice

> *spoilers:*
> Doesn't this basically mean that it wasn't Ra's who discovered Lazarus pit? I don't really like that.
> *end of spoilers*


I don't know... I always find it funny that the first Lazarus Pit was in the exact place that Ra's was born. Ra's choosing that place to meditate makes sense since it's his birthplace but I don't know if I like the coincidence, even if the place is mystical. 

On the other hand, I don't know if I like it if it turns out he meditated there under the direction of someone who discovered it first




> One STUPID THEORY that was mentioned before..
> 
> You see that Above Talia there is one circle(one EMPTY LIGHT) in the tree??
> 
> I see it a little weird... Unless in the end they want to confirm later that Respawn is her son and this is a clue about it.


My first thought is the circle's for Damian's child

----------


## adrikito

> My first thought is the circle's for Damian's child


.... Not sure what to think. 


If we have the chance to see one Damian child probably one *Future DC event* will make him/her not be canon anymore.  :Frown:

----------


## Rac7d*

> WTF.. Damian has not these strong arms that has in this Supersons comic cover. 
> 
> https://mobile.twitter.com/JorgeJime...91943245451264


It’s a cover
And even when he was ten different artist have drawn him taller shorter buffer 
Just an artistic choice.    We shave seen Tim drake go from 5’5 to 6’2 in the same issue

----------


## Darkspellmaster

Three thoughts here: 

1. Regarding the Robin issue itself *spoilers:*
Does that mean that Brother Blood is related to the Ra's and Damian. And if so does that mean that Respawn could be the new version of Brother Blood?
*end of spoilers*

2. I...am willing to give this a chance because I don't want a Bart Allen situation where they outright kill Jon and Damian goes full on Teen Titan's Tim after Conner died. Honestly, Jon looks a lot younger on the cover here than he does for his own book, and my guess...Might be leading to a World's Finest type book which kind of was what SuperSon's was. 

3. I'm not against Damian having a love interest, I just don't know if now is the best time as it feels like he's still trying to sort things out in regard to a lot of things. Like his Best Friend becoming 17 while he's still 14, the whole situation with Jace and his dad, and other BS that's going on in the Batbooks. 

Regarding Tim, feels like they are making Bernard into a male Steph, and he's either going to be a kid to a baddie or a bad guy himself. Or something like that. But if they make him too much like Steph, people would just be like, then why not make Steph Trans and be done with it?

----------


## Darkspellmaster

> It’s a cover
> And even when he was ten different artist have drawn him taller shorter buffer 
> Just an artistic choice.    We shave seen Tim drake go from 5’5 to 6’2 in the same issue


And that was a mess when that happens. *sighs* And given he's 14 now, he looks about the right height for it.

----------


## dietrich

> Yeah he is really knocking it out of the park right now. I can't wait for his Batman run.


Same. 
Can't wait to see more of Damian's Al ghul linage explored but like HssH said not sure I like the implication that Ra's was the one who discovered the Lazarus Pits

----------


## dietrich

> Three thoughts here: 
> 
> 1. Regarding the Robin issue itself *spoilers:*
> Does that mean that Brother Blood is related to the Ra's and Damian. And if so does that mean that Respawn could be the new version of Brother Blood?
> *end of spoilers*
> 
> 2. I...am willing to give this a chance because I don't want a Bart Allen situation where they outright kill Jon and Damian goes full on Teen Titan's Tim after Conner died. Honestly, Jon looks a lot younger on the cover here than he does for his own book, and my guess...Might be leading to a World's Finest type book which kind of was what SuperSon's was. 
> 
> 3. I'm not against Damian having a love interest, I just don't know if now is the best time as it feels like he's still trying to sort things out in regard to a lot of things. Like his Best Friend becoming 17 while he's still 14, the whole situation with Jace and his dad, and other BS that's going on in the Batbooks. 
> ...


Damian has nothing to sort through aside from Alfred's death.

His best friend has been 17 for over a year 
He's had issues with his dad for over a year and Jace isn't on his Radar so there's really nothing stopping him from getting involved in a Romance. Kid needs a break and some positive distractions. A girlfriend  might just be the best thing for him.

----------


## dietrich

Superman and Robin

This going to be fun.

I can't wait.


Anyone else think it's sus that Robin and Superman were outed and now we get this title?

----------


## adrikito

> Same. 
> Can't wait to see more of Damian's Al ghul linage explored but like HssH said not sure I like the implication that Ra's was the one who discovered the Lazarus Pits


If Ra´s was young when he discovered the Lazarus Pits it can still work that his old mother investigated about them too and was lucky.




> D
> He's had issues with his dad for over a year and Jace isn't on his Radar so there's really nothing stopping him from getting involved in a Romance. Kid needs a break and some positive distractions. A girlfriend  might just be the best thing for him.


Now that you mention it.. Yes. He needs something positive in his life.. Since he made 13 he has been unlucky.. Even Ra´s felt pity for him in Robin 4.

Damian Wayne Robin 2021 Ra´s al Ghul.jpg

----------


## Digifiend

> Superman and Robin
> 
> This going to be fun.
> 
> I can't wait.
> 
> 
> Anyone else think it's sus that Robin and Superman were outed and now we get this title?


But the Robin who came out was a different Robin. Tim's the one who came out as bi, not Damian.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Superman and Robin
> 
> This going to be fun.
> 
> I can't wait.
> 
> 
> Anyone else think it's sus that Robin and Superman were outed and now we get this title?


Wait something's not right about that picture

FBsL6QiXoAE19R5c.jpg

There. Now that feels right.

----------


## HsssH

> If Ra´s was young when he discovered the Lazarus Pits it can still work that his old mother investigated about them too and was lucky.


If I remember right Birth of the Demon had Ra's father using the pits after Ra's found them? I don't remember anything about his mother there, but I guess it could be revealed that she was some nomad and returned to that place when Ra's had already left.

----------


## Restingvoice

> If I remember right Birth of the Demon had Ra's father using the pits after Ra's found them? I don't remember anything about his mother there, but I guess it could be revealed that she was some nomad and returned to that place when Ra's had already left.


The mother was only there during the birth scene. The father was unknown. So the uncle? The one who become immortal are Ra's, his uncle, and a young man whose mother Ra's cured, so he became Ra's supporter.

----------


## Harryrun

> In MUCH more interesting Damian related news...
> 
> *spoilers:*
> Everyone who called Mother Blood being his grandmother was...almost right. Great grandmother. Close enough. Not gonna lie, even when people were speculating it, I was thinking "ain't no way in hell they're gonna make the Al Ghul bloodline even more fucked up" but they did lol
> 
> Looking forward to see how that plays out
> *end of spoilers*


Wish Robin is bimonthly, the whole run till now feels like a long teaser

----------


## adrikito

> Wish Robin is bimonthly, the whole run till now feels like a long teaser


YEAH... How sad that is monthy but..

We should understand it Williamson has a LOT OF WORK.. Make it bimonthy would be a problem for this comic quality.

----------


## dietrich

> But the Robin who came out was a different Robin. *Tim's the one who came out as bi, not Damian*.


That's what's sus. I feel like new readers were drawn in by the recent reveals might be conned into thinking this is a title featuring the LGBTq duo.

----------


## dietrich

> If Ra´s was young when he discovered the Lazarus Pits it can still work that his old mother investigated about them too and was lucky.
> 
> 
> 
> Now that you mention it.. Yes. He needs something positive in his life.. Since he made 13 he has been unlucky.. Even Ra´s felt pity for him in Robin 4.
> 
> Damian Wayne Robin 2021 Ra´s al Ghul.jpg


Exactly. I know that some don't want Damian in a relationship but it's not like ALL his stories will be Romance if he gets a GF.

Entitled fans can be problematic for characters. It was sad reading Damian fans complaining about him being interested in a girl in Beast boy loves Raven. 

Nevermind that the series is YA and that demo lean a great deal towards Romance.

Damian is a teenager and DC is desperate to crack the YA market. So he is going to be getting a love interest. 

However I'm sure we'll get a variety of genres so those who don't like Romance still have material.

----------


## adrikito

> 3. I'm not against Damian having a love interest, I just don't know if now is the best time as it feels like he's still trying to sort things out in regard to a lot of things. Like his Best Friend becoming 17 while he's still 14, the whole situation with Jace and his dad, and other BS that's going on in the Batbooks. 
> 
> Regarding Tim, feels like they are making Bernard into a male Steph, and he's either going to be a kid to a baddie or a bad guy himself. Or something like that. But if they make him too much like Steph, people would just be like, then why not make Steph Trans and be done with it?


Why he should care about that Jace when he is trying to avoid the Batfamily in his comic? It was Rose who is in contact with Jason who received that Fake Oracle warning not him.

Probably later Barbara would say to everyone that Bruce is fine. His bad situation with the Batfamily??* Dick decided Trust in him and inform to Bruce that he is fine and they will stop trying to catch him.

He already saw the 17 years Superboy.. Who continues with his life* as Superman. Why can´t damian the same? 


About Superboy.. He is older but he has been YEARS suffering in one lunatic hands.. *Don´t you think that Damian had more time to grow in a normal way as a character(to give him a ship) than one guy who turned older spending ​6 years tortured in a prison?* Damian has been always too mature for his age.

Damian knows many of Dick Grayson girlfriends for example and even in these years probably saw Bruce with some women.. If a guy who turned older spending his years like that(as a prisoner) can have a Ship Damian too.

As Dietrich said Damian needs something positive in his life too. One ship could be that thing.


SO. The people continues saying this(Steph = Bernand).. I wonder if DC really wants this TIM ship.. Make him similar to her is a bad option. He will fall in Steph arms again someday.

Anyway. Is not like one Steph&Cass ship is possible.  :Frown:  They are opposites and would be interesting as couple. Fortunately I will see them together in Batgirls.

----------


## Darkspellmaster

I'm not against a girlfriend but given he's about to go on this long trip with his Dad it doesn't make sense to give him one right now. You can't have a lot of chemistry  with them. I'm fine with a girlfriend. Personally I don't think it should be Flatline, but if he wants to date not gonna stop the writers, but it just seems like a weird time to do it when Williams is taking over the Batman book.
I should note that Damian is not over the change, as he kind of mentioned it to Rose when it came to Jon.

I'm guessing World's finest references here with this, and hopefully a spin off for more adventure. And not really odd since there's a whole backstory for Tim and Jon being bi and both happened to be coincidence in regard to the timing.

SuperSons is popular still, World's Finest was popular, its more about sales than pairings. Honestly if people headcannon it, let them have it. Taylor said they're like Brothers in his eyes, not sure about Williams, Tomasai has always seen them as best friends. 

I mean whats the worst case scenario? Some where down the line Damian turns out to be Pan or something under a writers pen and dates Jon? I don't see it happening but Tim and Jon got slipped under the higher-ups. 

More likely if Lois and Clark have a daughter you'd likely see her paired with him than Jon with him.

----------


## Darkspellmaster

Agree he needs a positive, but love life isn't the only form of positive. I'd actually like to see him hang out with Duke as a friend since they are close in age, or Steph. Let him have fun. 

Again not against a romance but that takes a lot of time to build and the boy needs friends. Conner Hawke is a good start, but let's expand it. Bring back Maps, let him meet Wally's kids (they're his age), give him back Collin and his friendship with Steph. Let him meet Nell Little, have him interact with Airwave (Hal told his nephew to learn from a bat and it could be funny). He needs his own crew of buddies  like Dick and Tim have. I'll even add having Tomasai maybe do a words finest might reconnecting Jon and him too.

----------


## adrikito

> Exactly. I know that some don't want Damian in a relationship but it's not like ALL his stories will be Romance if he gets a GF.
> 
> Entitled fans can be problematic for characters. It was sad reading Damian fans complaining about him being interested in a girl in Beast boy loves Raven. 
> 
> Nevermind that the series is YA and that demo lean a great deal towards Romance.
> 
> Damian is a teenager and DC is desperate to crack the YA market. So he is going to be getting a love interest. 
> 
> However I'm sure we'll get a variety of genres so those who don't like Romance still have material.


I think that his dynamic with Supergirl in Injustice was interesting and.. IN CANON if GLASS would had been generous with us not prefering Djinn&Crush certain moments between him and Djinn were nice too.

*...Damiraes complained about it??* 
They should understand that Damian and Raven are not possible in canon.. I like Wondergirl Cassie but I know that something like the DCEASED ship with her is not possible.. Maybe is because of Steph pre-timeskip relation with him(also inj kara) that I like the Damian&Blonde girl idea.  :Big Grin: 


Long time ago I was not interested in him having a ship but.. I saw interesting girls these last years that sadly without matter if shared comics with him ended in nothing.

----------


## adrikito

> I'm not against a girlfriend but given he's about to go on this long trip with his Dad it doesn't make sense to give him one right now. You can't have a lot of chemistry  with them. I'm fine with a girlfriend. Personally I don't think it should be Flatline, but if he wants to date not gonna stop the writers, but it just seems like a weird time to do it when Williams is taking over the Batman book.
> I should note that Damian is not over the change, as he kind of mentioned it to Rose when it came to Jon.
> 
> I'm guessing World's finest references here with this, and hopefully a spin off for more adventure. And not really odd since there's a whole backstory for Tim and Jon being bi and both happened to be coincidence in regard to the timing.


WAIT.. WHAT?? Bruce and him will be together again?? DAMN.. This comic is Perfect. I like his independence.

Anyway Robin will continue after ROBIN 12(This arc end). Robin and Deathstroke series will collide according Williamson after Lazarus Island arc.




> SuperSons is popular still, World's Finest was popular, its more about sales than pairings. Honestly if people headcannon it, let them have it. Taylor said they're like Brothers in his eyes, not sure about Williams, Tomasai has always seen them as best friends.


This reminds me what Glass said about Emiko and Damian. That more than like a couple they were like siblings.




> I mean whats the worst case scenario? Some where down the line Damian turns out to be Pan or something under a writers pen and dates Jon? I don't see it happening but Tim and Jon got slipped under the higher-ups.
> 
> More likely if Lois and Clark have a daughter you'd likely see her paired with him than Jon with him.


*
DC likes have the Bat-Characters shipped with other human characters*..

I heard it from other persons after Jayson&Artemis ship failure.. For this is more likely see Dick with Barbara(for example) than Dick with Starfire. Or Bruce with Selina than with wonderwoman..





> Agree he needs a positive, but love life isn't the only form of positive. I'd actually like to see him hang out with Duke as a friend since they are close in age, or Steph. Let him have fun. 
> 
> Again not against a romance but that takes a lot of time to build and the boy needs friends. Conner Hawke is a good start, but let's expand it. Bring back Maps, let him meet Wally's kids (they're his age), give him back Collin and his friendship with Steph. Let him meet Nell Little, have him interact with Airwave (Hal told his nephew to learn from a bat and it could be funny). He needs his own crew of buddies  like Dick and Tim have. I'll even add having Tomasai maybe do a words finest might reconnecting Jon and him too.


His current comic is ROBIN.. Unless he can team with Connor&Rose not sure if we could see him with more company than Flatline...

To be with Steph he has Robins.

You are asking too much to DC who made these characters dissappear or stop appearing.. I miss Maya but I do not trust too much in her return and we would see her again in the best case 1-2 issues.

----------


## Darkspellmaster

Regarding the issue of Raven x Damian  (sorry I know of a Star Wars ship as Damarey so the name is having me confused) most of the complaints are stemming from fans of the original comic titans because Raven and BB are supposed to be in Kori, Vic, and Dick's age group. So yeah too old for him. Teen Titans fans from the cartoon, where it wouldn't have made sense. Also throw in there that it feels like trying to ship emo boy x emo girl.

----------


## Darkspellmaster

> WAIT.. WHAT?? Bruce and him will be together again?? DAMN.. This comic is Perfect. I like his independence.
> 
> Anyway Robin will continue after ROBIN 12(This arc end). Robin and Deathstroke series will collide according Williamson after Lazarus Island arc.


Don't know the details but thats what I'm hearing. As long as we don't go back to Damian as Slade's son, im good.


[QUOTE This reminds me what Glass said about Emiko and Damian. That more than like a couple they were like siblings.[/QUOTE]

And another writer may say something different. I'd rather have Emiko as siblung than love interest honestly.





> *
> DC likes have the Bat-Characters shipped with other human characters*..
> 
> I heard it from other persons after Jayson&Artemis ship failure.. For this is more likely see Dick with Barbara(for example) than Dick with Starfire. Or Bruce with Selina than with wonderwoman..


I have not heard of this.






> His current comic is ROBIN.. Unless he can team with Connor&Rose not sure if we could see him with more company than Flatline...
> 
> To be with Steph he has Robins.
> 
> You are asking too much to DC who made these characters dissappear or stop appearing.. I miss Maya but I do not trust too much in her return and we would see her again in the best case 1-2 issues.


But thats the thing, they should not vanish. You need younger characters to connect to and with younger readers and draw them in. So it would be nice for a book that has that.

----------


## adrikito

DC is really weird... Putting characters like Raven and Starfire from Dick Generation in Damian TTs..

Anyway.. I would not be surprised if Raven has been ANY ROBIN(minus steph) companion in TT groups. Like if she is the ETERNAL TEEN that is usually in every TT formation..

Dick, Tim(N52), Damian(rebirth).. I would not be surprised if Raven was a TT too when Jason was with them.

----------


## adrikito

> Don't know the details but thats what I'm hearing. As long as we don't go back to Damian as Slade's son, im good.


I heard rumours about Bruce leaving Gotham(I can´t understand why.. Is not like if Dick is here to replace him).. But not too many details about what he will make or if he will be alone or with a companion..




> And another writer may say something different. I'd rather have Emiko as siblung than love interest honestly.


Maybe their fight styles and  characters are too similar.




> I have not heard of this.


Not sure how explain this but... I heard from other fans that *DON´T HAVE HOPES in a batcharacter shipped with a character with Superpowers.. The ship is Doomed to fail* because the batcharacters are simple humans and DC prefers ship them with other humans. Not with Aliens(starfire), Amazons, etc...




> But thats the thing, they should not vanish. You need younger characters to connect to and with younger readers and draw them in. So it would be nice for a book that has that.


DC is always erasing or ignoring them and their past with Damian.. Glass TT was a missed chance. Damian already knew Emiko and Wallace. 

*Better enjoy what you have at the sight* because unless he joins a Teens Group comic I would not expect him having more friends and probably DC would ignore them later.


*Anyway. Maybe we can end here.. We want and expect different things from Damian.* 

I prefer not repeat old mistakes to avoid be disappointed again. I tried to trust in Glass  TT for example even when I was watching people starting to complain about it to end disappointed and leaving the comic when he left the team.

----------


## adrikito

*Roger Cruz tweet(With image):*
https://twitter.com/rogercruzbr/stat...91845800214528
Hey guys!
So proud to announce that I'm working now on Robin for DC Comics.
I'm having a lot of fun drawing Damian Wayne and I can't wait for you to see it!
Thanks to @Paul_Kaminski @Williamson_Josh @Ben_Abernathy and @DCComics for  inviting me to be part of this amazing team!

Damian Wayne Robin 2021 City.jpg

----------


## dietrich

> Agree he needs a positive, but love life isn't the only form of positive. I'd actually like to see him hang out with Duke as a friend since they are close in age, or Steph. Let him have fun. 
> 
> Again not against a romance but that takes a lot of time to build and the boy needs friends. Conner Hawke is a good start, but let's expand it. Bring back Maps, let him meet Wally's kids (they're his age), give him back Collin and his friendship with Steph. Let him meet Nell Little, have him interact with Airwave (Hal told his nephew to learn from a bat and it could be funny). He needs his own crew of buddies  like Dick and Tim have. I'll even add having Tomasai maybe do a words finest might reconnecting Jon and him too.


Damian has more than enough friends. he has more friends than Bruce and most of the batfamily.

We've seen him make friends and watched those friends develop. The argument that he needs more friends doesn't hold water.

Just like we don't need anymore stories where Damian gets humbled, we don't need anymore stories where he forms a friendship bond with someone.

We've have Maya, Colin, Suren, Jon, Steph, Maps, Duke, Conner, Rose and Emi. For a boy who isn't good with people Damian has a lots of friends.


On the Romance front there's never been a canon Damian story that explored that side.

They've come close with Kara in Injustice 2 [which was the highlight of the whole Inj 2 imo] And there's have Kingdom Come.

That angle is still fresh.

Exploring his love live doesn't stop writers exploring his other friendships.

Damian has his own crew

He has his pet Crew
hbis Lazarus Crew
His Robin Son of Batman crew
His Supersons crew

Williamson is bringing back his old crew which is great but that doesn't mean they can't give him a gf

----------


## Morgoth

Super Sons movie officially announced at Fandome, it's called Battle of the Super Sons.

----------


## Digifiend

Computer animated.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Super Sons movie officially announced at Fandome, it's called Battle of the Super Sons.


About time. Can't wait to find out more.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Super Sons movie officially announced at Fandome, it's called Battle of the Super Sons.


It's gonna be the first arc right, with Damian attacking Jon for accidentally killing his pet cat and Jon punching him in the ribs with half Kryptonian power, to be finished with duel under the christmas tree

hype hype hype

----------


## Darkspellmaster

Should be fun with the animated movie.

And how often out side of Jon, have we seen these characters interacting  with him?

----------


## CTTT

Damian's new costume is going to take some getting used to.  I hope they bring back the classic red yellow black with green domino mask ensemble again.  All red with no cape, kinda strange.

----------


## adrikito

> It's gonna be the first arc right, with Damian attacking Jon for accidentally killing his pet cat and Jon punching him in the ribs with half Kryptonian power, to be finished with duel under the christmas tree
> 
> hype hype hype


Another Batman vs Superman?? 

Happy that I am not interested in this.. I still hate this image to want to see it again  :Mad:  Despite probably someone will post it here  :EEK!: 

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/up...20super10b.jpg





> Damian's new costume is going to take some getting used to.  I hope they bring back the classic red yellow black with green domino mask ensemble again.  All red with no cape, kinda strange.


Really? I think that is his Coolest costume.. Better than his... Ninja one? used in battles all black&Grey.

----------


## Astralabius

> Damian's new costume is going to take some getting used to.  I hope they bring back the classic red yellow black with green domino mask ensemble again.  All red with no cape, kinda strange.


Yeah, his current costume makes him look like a Peter Pan who fell into a bucket of gray paint, I still don't like it.

----------


## GhostCryptid13

> Damian's new costume is going to take some getting used to.  I hope they bring back the classic red yellow black with green domino mask ensemble again.  All red with no cape, kinda strange.


Damian has a new costume? How did I miss this?

----------


## adrikito

> Damian has a new costume? How did I miss this?


You do not know about Damian comic *ROBIN*??  :Confused:  In 9 days the Issue 7 will be out.


If you already knew about it that comment was probably a complain about the Damian Robin costume in Robin serie. Not about a new one.

----------


## GhostCryptid13

Yeah I knew about Robin I just thought he had gotten a new (all red) costume

----------


## AmiMizuno

Supersons is being turned into an animated cgi movie.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Supersons is being turned into an animated cgi movie.


Could be good. No way to know right now though.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Yeah I knew about Robin I just thought he had gotten a new (all red) costume


I believe this is the costume the poster was talking about.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Supersons is being turned into an animated cgi movie.


That’s amazing for their brand to be recognized and adapted so quickly

----------


## AmiMizuno

> That’s amazing for their brand to be recognized and adapted so quickly


I feel this is due to the fact they are connected to Superman and Batman. This will be the first time Jon will make a animated appearance.

----------


## Veni

> That’s amazing for their brand to be recognized and adapted so quickly


Beware the Batman was actually the first CGI Batman (and DC) show. We also had Green Lantern: The animated series in CGI. Upcoming CGI movies/shows are Super-Pets and Batwheels. This is nothing new. How making it CGI will make the brand more recognizable? I don't understand. Traditional animation is still popular and profitable outside the USA ( especially in Europe and Asia)

----------


## AmiMizuno

> Beware the Batman was actually the first CGI Batman (and DC) show. We also had Green Lantern: The animated series in CGI. Upcoming CGI movies/shows are Super-Pets and Batwheels. This is nothing new. How making it CGI will make the brand more recognizable? I don't understand. Traditional animation is still popular and profitable outside the USA ( especially in Europe and Asia)


I think they meant because the book wasn't here for that long that it got picked to be made into a movie. Not that it's cgi

----------


## adrikito

8 days until ROBIN 7 release... Hoping that the preview is out soon.

Despite probably is the predictable Damian 2nd dead and few more things.

21.jpg

----------


## Eckri

Anyone seen the Robins Issue 1?

*spoilers:*
 So there's a _First Robin_ that's not Dick. Well entertaining start isn't it
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Rac7d*

> I feel this is due to the fact they are connected to Superman and Batman. This will be the first time Jon will make a animated appearance.


Jon appeared in Young Justice as had Damian, superman is always at a late dating early engagement phase with Lois, not enough time for a baby in any of the animated series.
Perhaps, its did have a good reception and since people keep chanting for young jon to come back this is their way to do it, and if its beloved maybe we get a full on animate series of SuperSons.

Jason didn't appear in animation for decades despite his connection to batman

----------


## Rac7d*

> Anyone seen the Robins Issue 1?
> 
> *spoilers:*
>  So there's a _First Robin_ that's not Dick. Well entertaining start isn't it
> *end of spoilers*


dont need the spoiler that preview came out 4 months ago, its probably some psycho batnerd stalker who considers themselves the real Robin.
Combine Syndrome from Incredibles and Tim drake from Titans. Should still be fun

----------


## Morgoth

https://twitter.com/VikBogdanovic/st...13365044486149
It seems like Damian will be wearing Batman's Hellbat armor in Super Sons special.

----------


## adrikito

> https://twitter.com/VikBogdanovic/st...13365044486149
> It seems like Damian will be wearing Batman's Hellbat armor in Super Sons special.


I saw it before in twitter but... How weird. 
*
What kind of threat can force him to use that armor??* Batman(Darkseid), Lois Lane(Eradicator)

Anyway. I will receive the answer here after you see it.

----------


## garazza

Well that kind of sucks because I had a pitch that Damian steals the Hellbat armor to go to Earth-3 and rescue Jon, paralleling the time Bruce went to Apokolips to resurrect Damian. Now it just feels cheap for the sake of "Look at this cool thing!"

----------


## Jackalope89

> Jon appeared in Young Justice as had Damian, superman is always at a late dating early engagement phase with Lois, not enough time for a baby in any of the animated series.
> Perhaps, its did have a good reception and since people keep chanting for young jon to come back this is their way to do it, and if its beloved maybe we get a full on animate series of SuperSons.
> 
> Jason didn't appear in animation for decades despite his connection to batman


Officially, Under the Red Hood was the first, I believe. Though "Tim" in BTAS was Jason in all but name (execs said no to using Jason's name). 

Unofficially, many believe that Red X from the animated Teen Titans series was Jason.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Well that kind of sucks because I had a pitch that Damian steals the Hellbat armor to go to Earth-3 and rescue Jon, paralleling the time Bruce went to Apokolips to resurrect Damian. Now it just feels cheap for the sake of "Look at this cool thing!"


Its very unfortunate. Unless of course its the reveal that the fake is, indeed, a fake, with Damian going all out to stop him. And THEN heads to Earth 3 to rescue real Jon.

----------


## dietrich

> https://twitter.com/VikBogdanovic/st...13365044486149
> It seems like Damian will be wearing Batman's Hellbat armor in Super Sons special.


That's awesome. I can't wait for this movie and the special.

I get why some prefer Jon to be deaged and why Supersons shippers can be off putting but I'm getting annoyed at the constant pissing on anything to do with TeenJon and Damian.

Damian's sales as a solo act has always performed better than Supersons [OG and later series].
The version of Supersons that have been the most successful are the grownup versions from Dceased.

Kid Jon isn't as profitable [might change] as Teen Jon and isn't as versatile. Not to mention that Supersons dynamic that most want brought back is dependent on Damian's character remaining static.

The fact that so many fan keep suggesting that Damian be aged up to match Jon tells me that majority of the Superesons fanbase don't know or care about Damian Wayne or comics.

Supersons can work with Superman and Robin.

----------


## Rac7d*

> That's awesome. I can't wait for this movie and the special.
> 
> I get why some prefer Jon to be deaged and why Supersons shippers can be off putting but I'm getting annoyed at the constant pissing on anything to do with TeenJon and Damian.
> 
> Damian's sales as a solo act has always performed better than Supersons [OG and later series].
> The version of Supersons that have been the most successful are the grownup versions from Dceased.
> 
> Kid Jon isn't as profitable [might change] as Teen Jon and isn't as versatile. Not to mention that Supersons dynamic that most want brought back is dependent on Damian's character remaining static.
> 
> ...


It absolutely can, things haven’t changed much except Jon shaves now.
Damian is still smarted and more experienced and the mutual respect between them is intact 


5B6F4F4B-03B9-429D-B615-F5088C9A3D43.jpg

When was the last DC book handing out smackdowns like this
I need this to be animated and by a proper studio

----------


## garazza

> Damian's sales as a solo act has always performed better than Supersons [OG and later series].


What does sales have to do with anything? Both can co-exist and not invalidate each other. The original Young Justice comic was published alongside the solo books of Superboy, Robin, and Impulse and no one said anything disparaging about the other. In fact, they probably enhanced each other _because_ they were published in tandem.




> The version of Supersons that have been the most successful are the grownup versions from Dceased.


That's a bit misleading. DCeased was successful on its own merits. The inclusion of the Jon and Damian was a highlight, sure, but certainly not a main selling point. It's like saying Black Canary is the most popular Green Lantern because DCeased sold more than the average GL book. Plus, DCeased was its own independent work that has no bearing on the main universe and anyone that thinks otherwise is an idiot.




> Kid Jon isn't as profitable [might change] as Teen Jon and isn't as versatile.


Wow, every word of that sentence is wrong. Kid Jon is infinitely more versatile than teen Jon ever would be. Jon as a kid had an infinite number of directions to go in and by aging him up, DC cemented him into one direction and that direction was to be a carbon copy of his father. Aged up Jon is the living embodiment of every single criticism, both valid and invalid, people had of Jon when he was first introduced.

Every single story that has aged up Jon in it is actively diminished by his inclusion. Conversely, if Jon was a kid, those stories would actually be enhanced because Jon being a kid character is a rarity and offers a genuinely new angle and perspective that aged up Jon is physically incapable of bringing.




> Not to mention that Supersons dynamic that most want brought back is dependent on Damian's character remaining static.


No? Where the hell are you getting that from? Damian may have seemed static, but it's only because Super Sons was the reward for Damian's past ten years of development and we simply got to bask in and enjoy this new period in Damian's life. That by no means should be construed as wanting Damian to stay the same and in fact means that people want to see more of this Damian and how he'll grow from Jon's positive influence. Dick worked wonders on Damian, now it was Jon's turn.




> The fact that so many fan keep suggesting that Damian be aged up to match Jon tells me that majority of the Superesons fanbase don't know or care about Damian Wayne or comics.


The people who suggest Damian should be aged up to match Jon are, as you said, people who don't read comics, but are by no means representative of even a minority of fans. They are on the fringes of comic fandom they can barely be described as comic book fans. They like the concept of what they think the characters are, but not the actual characters. 




> Supersons can work with Superman and Robin.


If that were true, then the issue by Tomasi and Bogdanovic would be called "Super Sons." But it's not.

----------


## garazza

> It absolutely can, things haven’t changed much except Jon shaves now.
> Damian is still smarted and more experienced and the mutual respect between them is intact


Just because DC refuses to acknowledge that things should have changed between Damian and Jon since Jon was aged up doesn't mean you don't have to either. You do not have to accept mediocrity.

----------


## dietrich

> What does sales have to do with anything? Both can co-exist and not invalidate each other. The original Young Justice comic was published alongside the solo books of Superboy, Robin, and Impulse and no one said anything disparaging about the other. In fact, they probably enhanced each other _because_ they were published in tandem.
> 
> 
> 
> That's a bit misleading. DCeased was successful on its own merits. The inclusion of the Jon and Damian was a highlight, sure, but certainly not a main selling point. It's like saying Black Canary is the most popular Green Lantern because DCeased sold more than the average GL book. Plus, DCeased was its own independent work that has no bearing on the main universe and anyone that thinks otherwise is an idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, every word of that sentence is wrong. Kid Jon is infinitely more versatile than teen Jon ever would be. Jon as a kid had an infinite number of directions to go in and by aging him up, DC cemented him into one direction and that direction was to be a carbon copy of his father. Aged up Jon is the living embodiment of every single criticism, both valid and invalid, people had of Jon when he was first introduced.
> ...


Bro you do you. It's your hill. 

me?

I enjoyed The supersons together as Robin and Superman in Action and Son of Kal El.
I enjoyed the Challenge of the Superson's which was published after Jon Kent was magically aged up
I'm looking forward to the [/Superson's[/b] as Robin and Superboy in the animated movie battle  of the Supersons.
I'm looking forward to the Supersons in Superman and Robin [that should end the recent rumblings/HC about Damian being homophobic that surfaced since Tim came out]


I stand my what I said.

----------


## garazza

> Bro you do you. It's your hill.


Agreed. I'll bitch and moan, but that should not stop people from reading and buying the books they want to read.

----------


## dietrich

> Agreed. I'll bitch and moan, but that should not stop people from reading and buying the books they want to read.


That's fair enough.

----------


## adrikito

lol... Damian vs Connor fight image was already posted here.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Officially, Under the Red Hood was the first, I believe. Though "Tim" in BTAS was Jason in all but name (execs said no to using Jason's name). 
> 
> Unofficially, many believe that Red X from the animated Teen Titans series was Jason.


So yeah  for decades

----------


## Rac7d*

> Just because DC refuses to acknowledge that things should have changed between Damian and Jon since Jon was aged up doesn't mean you don't have to either. You do not have to accept mediocrity.


I can’t call it mediocre becuase I have not seen it yet. Part of damian backstory is being robbed of a chance to grow up like a normal child. Jon was one of the few people he let his guard down for. Now Jon the one who has been robbed of his formative years and until jay was doing well in making any connections as himself. It’ll be nice to see them reunite and relax around one another.  Yes thier are gonna be differences sure but let’s not pretend 17 is the pinnacle of male maturity. Let’s give them a chance

----------


## garazza

> I can’t call it mediocre becuase I have not seen it yet. Part of damian backstory is being robbed of a chance to grow up like a normal child. Jon was one of the few people he let his guard down for. Now Jon the one who has been robbed of his formative years and until jay was doing well in making any connections as himself. It’ll be nice to see them reunite and relax around one another.  Yes thier are gonna be differences sure but let’s not pretend 17 is the pinnacle of male maturity. Let’s give them a chance


DC did have their chance and their stance is that literally nothing has changed between them, despite one of them being a literal young adult as a result of being tortured for seven years.

----------


## Blue22

> DC did have their chance and their stance is that literally nothing has changed between them, despite one of them being a literal young adult as a result of being tortured for seven years.


^This^

I know I'm beating a dead horse here but they've fumbled so badly with everything relating to Jon since 2018 that I just can't bring myself to even try to like who he is anymore. Let alone not be annoyed whenever I see him. 

It's petty of me, I know, but I'm definitely sitting out on this upcoming book he's about to have with Damian. I'll see how it is from y'all, but I already said that if Taylor couldn't even win me over on this new guy then nobody can. So the only Super sons content I'm looking forward to at this point is the movie. My no longer youngest son is still dead to me XD

Really I haven't been too pleased with most of my sons lately. 

- One's not getting as much exposure as I wish he would have (though, at the very least, his book with Raven was good. And he continues to be one of the best characters in the Young Justice cartoon). 

- One's not getting ANY exposure at all. 

- One's getting A LOT of exposure but it's for a version of him that I have no interest in supporting. 

- And the last is...actually living his best life right now. 2021 has been fucking amazing to Damian.

----------


## Morgoth

> - And the last is...actually living his best life right now. 2021 has been fucking amazing to Damian.


And the next year is promising as well.

----------


## Jackalope89

> ^This^
> 
> I know I'm beating a dead horse here but they've fumbled so badly with everything relating to Jon since 2018 that I just can't bring myself to even try to like who he is anymore. Let alone not be annoyed whenever I see him. 
> 
> It's petty of me, I know, but I'm definitely sitting out on this upcoming book he's about to have with Damian. I'll see how it is from y'all, but I already said that if Taylor couldn't even win me over on this new guy then nobody can. So the only Super sons content I'm looking forward to at this point is the movie. My no longer youngest son is still dead to me XD
> 
> Really I haven't been too pleased with most of my sons lately. 
> 
> - One's not getting as much exposure as I wish he would have (though, at the very least, his book with Raven was good. And he continues to be one of the best characters in the Young Justice cartoon). 
> ...





> And the next year is promising as well.


Yeah, Damian's books are doing really well. Not only with Robin, but the Robins book as well. And my other favorite, Jason, has been represented really well by Williamson too.

----------


## Blue22

> Yeah, Damian's books are doing really well. Not only with Robin, but the Robins book as well. And my other favorite, Jason, has been represented really well by Williamson too.


Williamson is a gift. Definitely up there as one of my favorites in DC's corner right now. Not just for his work on Robin.

----------


## adrikito

One fanart:
Damian Wayne Robin 2021 fanart.jpg

----------


## HsssH

I got a question related to Damian's skin colour. Anyone remembers when exactly it became a thing?

Now, its been a while since I read Morrison's Batman, but I don't remember anything there about him being half-arab or having darker skin. Young Damian was drawn as "mini-Bruce" and Damian 666 was drawn like Morrison. I don't really remember it being a thing in Batman and Robin by Tomasi/Gleason or Robin: SOB by Gleason. Super Sons? Don't remember anything related either. Was it in Teen Titans?

----------


## adrikito

In Teen Titans it was mentioned something about Damian arabic roots.. I think that in Percy Run.

----------


## Fergus

> One fanart:
> Damian Wayne Robin 2021 fanart.jpg


This is great.

----------


## Fergus

> I got a question related to Damian's skin colour. Anyone remembers when exactly it became a thing?
> 
> Now, its been a while since I read Morrison's Batman, but I don't remember anything there about him being half-arab or having darker skin. Young Damian was drawn as "mini-Bruce" and Damian 666 was drawn like Morrison. I don't really remember it being a thing in Batman and Robin by Tomasi/Gleason or Robin: SOB by Gleason. Super Sons? Don't remember anything related either. Was it in Teen Titans?


I believe it blew up during Rebirth era. 
After Gleason gave us a Tanned Damian in RSOB and Jon Boy's promo art for TT had a very dark Damian. I think some expectation was introduced.

Then Ridley's Supersons happened and they went the opposite direction with a Brown haired Damian and suddenly it became an issue

----------


## Fergus

> In Teen Titans it was mentioned something about Damian arabic roots.. I think that in Percy Run.


No that was Glass that wrote that Damian felt more comfortable with and identified with his Middle Eastern roots

----------


## adrikito

> No that was Glass that wrote that Damian felt more comfortable with and identified with his Middle Eastern roots


REALLY? In Percy run his skin was darker.. Remember when Raven and the others were kidnapped.

4.jpg

----------


## Fergus

> Yeah, Damian's books are doing really well. Not only with Robin, but the Robins book as well. And my other favorite, Jason, has been represented really well by Williamson too.


I feel like Damian Dick and Jason are doing well. Jason might not have an ongoing but he's highly visible and there's a variety of stories available for his fans. He's gone from a character that only one writer was interested in to a character that a lots of the new blood want to explore.

----------


## Fergus

> REALLY? In Percy run his skin was darker.. Remember when Raven and the others were kidnapped.
> 
> 4.jpg


Yea he was darker but this run never touched on Damian's heritage. That was the Glass TT Annual

----------


## adrikito

I see.. I forgot about it.. With Ra´s appearing in PERCY run I though that it was the opposite. 

Despite GLASS Damian skin was not too dark if I am not wrong.

----------


## HsssH

Thanks guys, I somehow didn't remember at all that he had darker skin in Robin: SOB.

----------


## Rac7d*

https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...1/2021-08.html
Robin is selling very well

----------


## adrikito

> https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...1/2021-08.html
> Robin is selling very well


47.000... Is still good.

Poor Kara. Supergirl Woman of Tomorrow is in Issue 3 and only 28.000  :Frown:

----------


## CPSparkles

> https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...1/2021-08.html
> Robin is selling very well


That's very reassuring to hear. I don't see much buzz for it

----------


## Blue22

Unless a book pushes some kind of social boundary like Taylor's tend to do (or a good chunk of Marvel books), I rarely ever see comics getting a lot of buzz. Even the ones that are selling well.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Unless a book pushes some kind of social boundary like Taylor's tend to do (or a good chunk of Marvel books), I rarely ever see comics getting a lot of buzz. Even the ones that are selling well.


Considering he is not currently appearing in any other media he is doing great.
Kara is on tv every week and struggles to clear 30000

----------


## adrikito

> Unless a book pushes some kind of social boundary like Taylor's tend to do (or a good chunk of Marvel books), I rarely ever see comics getting a lot of buzz. Even the ones that are selling well.


YEAH.. Robin probably will not have more publicity again until Robin and deathstroke comics collide and we see one interview.. Despite there was already one talking about this a little.


DAMN. Robin 7 preview is not out yet.

----------


## adrikito

ROBIN 7 PREVIEW... 

3 pages but Part of Respawn face is seen.. White hair like Slade and Rose. According him Damian made something to him in the past. Despite if he is GRANT somehow he could be confusing Damian with Dick Grayson

https://comicbookdispatch.com/robin-7-preview/

Damian Wayne Robin 2021 vs Respawn.jpg

----------


## Jackalope89

> ROBIN 7 PREVIEW... 
> 
> 3 pages but Part of Respawn face is seen.. White hair like Slade and Rose. According him Damian made something to him in the past. Despite if he is GRANT somehow he could be confusing Damian with Dick Grayson
> 
> https://comicbookdispatch.com/robin-7-preview/
> 
> Damian Wayne Robin 2021 vs Respawn.jpg


Grant would make sense. With the rip-off Deathstroke outfit, white hair, and grudge against Robin (not the one he was originally against, but still).

----------


## Rac7d*

> ROBIN 7 PREVIEW... 
> 
> 3 pages but Part of Respawn face is seen.. White hair like Slade and Rose. According him Damian made something to him in the past. Despite if he is GRANT somehow he could be confusing Damian with Dick Grayson
> 
> https://comicbookdispatch.com/robin-7-preview/
> 
> Damian Wayne Robin 2021 vs Respawn.jpg


Little does he know how much no one cares between him and Red X the reveals are so annoying waiting 12 months plus for identity that Proably doesn’t matter

----------


## Jackalope89

> Little does he know how much no one cares between him and Red X the reveals are so annoying waiting 12 months plus for identity that Proably doesn’t matter


Plus the Red X people _wanted_ was in, essentially, an Elseworld. And was most likely Jason Todd.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Plus the Red X people _wanted_ was in, essentially, an Elseworld. And was most likely Jason Todd.


We’ll never know but it doesn’t keep me up at night or anything

----------


## Blue22

If this really is Grant then he's reached a new low in pathetic. And that's saying something because he was already pretty damn pathetic in his first life. Dude's so hellbent on killing a Robin (for something that 100% wasn't Robin's fault) but can't get around to killing the one he actually had a grudge against. So he's settling for his kid brother XD

----------


## Drako

> If this really is Grant then he's reached a new low in pathetic. And that's saying something because he was already pretty damn pathetic in his first life. Dude's so hellbent on killing a Robin (for something that 100% wasn't Robin's fault) but can't get around to killing the one he actually had a grudge against. So he's settling for his kid brother XD


Grant always was pathetic.

----------


## adrikito

> Grant would make sense. With the rip-off Deathstroke outfit, white hair, and grudge against Robin (not the one he was originally against, but still).


In that case he FORGOT that he discovered Deathstroke identity too.. Not sure in N52 but.. *In the previous continuity GRANT was a Big Deathstroke fan too.
*
I wonder if he is a MOTHER SOUL subbordinate(resurrected with Lazarus Pits) too to avoid others winning this Tournament and fulfill her plans.

Also Williamson said that *MAYBE we saw him* before or maybe not.




> Little does he know how much no one cares between him and Red X the reveals are so annoying waiting 12 months plus for identity that Proably doesn’t matter


Nobody knows RED X identity in.. Future State Yet? Wow. I was not expecting that.

----------


## dietrich

The latest issue of WFA was hilarious. Tim and Damian throwing hands was funny as heck as was Steph, Tim and Damian stalking Duke on his date

----------


## dietrich

> If this really is Grant then he's reached a new low in pathetic. And that's saying something because he was already pretty damn pathetic in his first life. Dude's so hellbent on killing a Robin (for something that 100% wasn't Robin's fault) but can't get around to killing the one he actually had a grudge against. So he's settling for his kid brother XD


Grant should have beef with Emi not Damian if this is carrying on from Rebirth Deathstroke. She's the one who killed his pops not Damian

----------


## Blue22

> Grant always was pathetic.


Seriously. I've been re-reading NTT lately and I was reminded of how stupid his and Slade's grudges against the Titans were. It's so contrived and nonsensical, you'd think it came from the live action Titans show xD

So if Williamson can do the impossible and not make Grant such a bitch, that'd be nice.




> Grant should have beef with Emi not Damian if this is carrying on from Rebirth Deathstroke. She's the one who killed his pops not Damian


Misplaced blame has always been Grant's thing. He gets it from his father I guess lol

----------


## Darkspellmaster

> The latest issue of WFA was hilarious. Tim and Damian throwing hands was funny as heck as was Steph, Tim and Damian stalking Duke on his date


I need to catch up with that series. Has Damian teamed up with Duke since he's become Signal yet?

----------


## Jackalope89

> I need to catch up with that series. Has Damian teamed up with Duke since he's become Signal yet?


Its not a "super hero" series, but slice of life/comedy series.

----------


## Eckri

Hilarious Damian fan art I found scouring online. 

An Impulse-Robin interaction where Damian being Damian, turns a friendly greeting into open hostility.

Feel like this is how most Damian's interactions go, someone greets him, Damian acts like Damian, open hostility, and one adventure later friends. 


The Duo that never Was.jpg

----------


## adrikito

> Hilarious Damian fan art I found scouring online. 
> 
> An Impulse-Robin interaction where Damian being Damian, turns a friendly greeting into open hostility.
> 
> Feel like this is how most Damian's interactions go, someone greets him, Damian acts like Damian, open hostility, and one adventure later friends. 
> 
> 
> The Duo that never Was.jpg


WALLY WEST daughter?

----------


## Eckri

> WALLY WEST daughter?


Yep, that's what the fan art implies, Iris II (Irey) West. found it scouring online. 

For a fan art, looks really good, like something you'd see for a draft comic.

----------


## adrikito

I heard today something about that Respawn will appear too when ROBIN&DEATHSTROKE will collide..

I wonder if his secret identity will continue like that until this moment or.. revealed in the Annual?

----------


## garazza

> I heard today something about that Respawn will appear too when ROBIN&DEATHSTROKE will collide..
> 
> I wonder if his secret identity will continue like that until this moment or.. revealed in the Annual?


Williamson said that Respawn's identity would not be revealed in the pages of Robin but another book instead. He didn't say which, but it's most likely Deathstroke Inc given Respawn's connections to Deathstroke and the fact that book is also written by Williamson.

----------


## adrikito

> Williamson said that Respawn's identity would not be revealed in the pages of Robin but another book instead. He didn't say which, but it's most likely Deathstroke Inc given Respawn's connections to Deathstroke and the fact that book is also written by Williamson.


I see. Thanks for the information.

I wonder why delay it like that... I though that it would be only 1 Robin ARC villain.

But like GLASS with Williamson is like he wants to push Respawn.

----------


## garazza

> I see. Thanks for the information.
> 
> I wonder why delay it like that... I though that it would be only 1 Robin ARC villain.
> 
> But like GLASS with Williamson is like he wants to push Respawn.


I can't fault the guy. Just because he loves Damian doesn't mean he can't also create new characters. Like I've said before, Williamson has been pretty respectful and tasteful in regards to the creation of new characters, unlike some of his contemporaries. For all intents and purposes, Respawn is a one-arc minor villain, while Mother Soul and Connor would be the major villains that may have recurring roles if the book continues for a long enough time. However, if the character of Respawn intrigues you enough, you can read more about him in Williamson's other book. If not, that's perfectly fine, which is what I'm doing. I like Respawn, but not enough to want to read Deathstroke, Inc. Respawn doesn't overshadow or take away from the characters I do want to read about, so that's why I welcome his presence in the book.

----------


## Fergus

> I see. Thanks for the information.
> 
> I wonder why delay it like that... I though that it would be only 1 Robin ARC villain.
> 
> But like GLASS with Williamson is like he wants to push Respawn.


 Glad Williamson is saving the reveal for Deathstroke Inc. Tease him in Robin and tell us his story in a more relevant title. Respawn is clearly a Deathstroke character.

----------


## Fergus

> Hilarious Damian fan art I found scouring online. 
> 
> An Impulse-Robin interaction where Damian being Damian, turns a friendly greeting into open hostility.
> 
> Feel like this is how most Damian's interactions go, someone greets him, Damian acts like Damian, open hostility, and one adventure later friends. 
> 
> 
> The Duo that never Was.jpg


Careful Damian. She's got a chin guard. You don't. He's in danger of stabbing himself.

----------


## Fergus

> The latest issue of WFA was hilarious. Tim and Damian throwing hands was funny as heck as was Steph, Tim and Damian stalking Duke on his date


You mean pranking each other?

----------


## Blue22

> You mean pranking each other?


I don't know. Some of those pranks bordered on assault. I'd say that's close enough to throwing hands XD



> Hilarious Damian fan art I found scouring online. 
> 
> An Impulse-Robin interaction where Damian being Damian, turns a friendly greeting into open hostility.
> 
> Feel like this is how most Damian's interactions go, someone greets him, Damian acts like Damian, open hostility, and one adventure later friends. 
> 
> 
> Attachment 114976


This just makes me wish we had gotten this:



Just another reason why the New 52 can suck it -___-

----------


## Restingvoice

It can still happen, now that all of them exists.

Except maybe Supergirl since she's no longer a teen.

Keep posting it. On Twitter. Someone's gonna notice sooner or later. Tagging Williamson may or may not be necessary.

----------


## Darkspellmaster

> I don't know. Some of those pranks bordered on assault. I'd say that's close enough to throwing hands XD
> 
> 
> This just makes me wish we had gotten this:
> 
> 
> 
> Just another reason why the New 52 can suck it -___-



That picture of them was really great, and it still sucks about the whole we can't have nice things. I mean if we ever get this again, I'd like to see Jon and Jae being brought in on it because I would see Jon and Irey teaming up to tease Damian and Jae,  and Jae and Damian to tease Jon and Irey

----------


## Darkspellmaster

> It can still happen, now that all of them exists.
> 
> Except maybe Supergirl since she's no longer a teen.
> 
> Keep posting it. On Twitter. Someone's gonna notice sooner or later. Tagging Williamson may or may not be necessary.


I mean, Kara was around 18 or 19 during this, I think Steph was 18, Static and Blue were 16 or 15, Megan was...16ish, and Damian was what 10 or 11, same with Irey. 

I mean you can still pull this together, but can you get Editorial to okay it.

----------


## adrikito

> I can't fault the guy. Just because he loves Damian doesn't mean he can't also create new characters. Like I've said before, Williamson has been pretty respectful and tasteful in regards to the creation of new characters, unlike some of his contemporaries. For all intents and purposes, Respawn is a one-arc minor villain, while Mother Soul and Connor would be the major villains that may have recurring roles if the book continues for a long enough time. However, if the character of Respawn intrigues you enough, you can read more about him in Williamson's other book. If not, that's perfectly fine, which is what I'm doing. I like Respawn, but not enough to want to read Deathstroke, Inc. Respawn doesn't overshadow or take away from the characters I do want to read about, so that's why I welcome his presence in the book.


I know.

I see. Yes. Mother Soul is the Main villain here.. Respawn started to have some relevance but I have some doubts about him killing Damian now. The first pages were perfect for it and he was not killed.
Hmmm.. Yeah. Connor is Almost like one Main villain. Of course forced by others.  :Frown: 

Too soon to have interest in Respawn like that  :Stick Out Tongue:  Anyway I will see Deathstroke too. Only because I like him. Most of DC villains can´t be redeemed. I started reading when LEX LUTHOR was "good" and I knew that it was impossible.


But now I see that RESPAWN is the possible reason because Robin and Deathstroke will collide.. Not because Rose is here.

----------


## Fergus

The 7 Best Days in Batman's Life

https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2021/1...n-batmans-life

----------


## Rac7d*

> I know.
> 
> I see. Yes. Mother Soul is the Main villain here.. Respawn started to have some relevance but I have some doubts about him killing Damian now. The first pages were perfect for it and he was not killed.
> Hmmm.. Yeah. Connor is Almost like one Main villain. Of course forced by others. 
> 
> Too soon to have interest in Respawn like that  Anyway I will see Deathstroke too. Only because I like him. Most of DC villains can´t be redeemed. I started reading when LEX LUTHOR was "good" and I knew that it was impossible.
> 
> 
> But now I see that RESPAWN is the possible reason because Robin and Deathstroke will collide.. Not because Rose is here.


connor is not a villain at all
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheHeavy

----------


## adrikito

> connor is not a villain at all
> https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheHeavy


I know.. I said that is a "villain". Respawn is a villain Connor not.

It was forced for others. I can only feel bad for him.  :Frown:

----------


## Rac7d*

> I know.. I said that is a "villain". Respawn is a villain Connor not.
> 
> It was forced for others. I can only feel bad for him.


Respawn is ….. I don’t know what. He talks tough, and likes to threaten people but I don’t know if he’s a villain. He is giving arrogant king fu rival wannabe.

----------


## Fergus

Watched Injustice and actually found it quite funny and a good movie. It's very different from the source so I get why those familiar with the property might have issues. It cuts out a shit ton. However these movies aren't made for the niche comic base. The movie as a movie is a good time and I bet casuals [the main target] will enjoy this.

It's very marvel with the humour which was on point.

Dick and Damian I thought were improved on and both got a lot more screen time due to the very very streamlined cast. 

I actually really liked what they did with Dick and Damian. Heck I liked what they did with a lot of the characters Mr Terrific, Harley, Plastic Man, Catwoman. Liked them all.

----------


## adrikito

About Robin 7

*spoilers:*
Funny. Respawn lost in the NEXT IMAGE. Sadly the situation made him recover quickly and showed be a Really Bad Loser but the rematch was denied.

Ruh Al Ghul discovered that Damian made it in purpose to stole the book. It seems that Damian understand now what is happening in this island. In theory "she died" before Ra´s discovered the Lazarus Pit. She send the assasins against Talia before the book.

The Inmortality apparently is not a lie but Damian thinks that the winner it would be transform in his Great Grandmother Servant the too.

Poor Damian. Stop this tournament was impossible and many fighters had a 2nd dead. He even tried to avoid his fight against Flatline. The last scene after her defeat made me think in Damian watching a beloved one dead.

Hawke made impossible for Rose and us learn Respawn identity again.

*Damian vs Hawke starts.
*
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Morgoth

*spoilers:*
If the winner of the tournament transforms into Lazarus Demon, when I guess we can bet that Connor is winning next issue, since Damian is gonna battle this demon.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Eckri

*spoilers:*
So when Damian won against Flatline, we see Ren and Hana painting. Ren is Damian, but who is Hana supposed to represent?
*end of spoilers*

----------


## adrikito

> *spoilers:*
> If the winner of the tournament transforms into Lazarus Demon, when I guess we can bet that Connor is winning next issue, since Damian is gonna battle this demon.
> *end of spoilers*


WHAT.. Really?? 

*spoilers:*

So you need thansform in that devil to obtain the inmortality?? Poor Connor

Yeah. In one solicitation mentions that Damian is in his 3rd life. He still has his 2nd here.
*end of spoilers*





> *spoilers:*
> So when Damian won against Flatline, we see Ren and Hana painting. Ren is Damian, but who is Hana supposed to represent?
> *end of spoilers*


Flatline.. In her flashback as little kid she looked similar.

----------


## Morgoth

> *spoilers:*
> So when Damian won against Flatline, we see Ren and Hana painting. Ren is Damian, but who is Hana supposed to represent?
> *end of spoilers*


Flatline, obviously.

----------


## Rac7d*

> *spoilers:*
> If the winner of the tournament transforms into Lazarus Demon, when I guess we can bet that Connor is winning next issue, since Damian is gonna battle this demon.
> *end of spoilers*


I like this guess but also hope your wrong and we subvert it

----------


## adrikito

> I like this guess but also hope your wrong and we subvert it


I always saw that as a Chance but.. I though that 
*spoilers:*
Mother soul would transform in that monster wanting to be inmortal.
*end of spoilers*

I remember one cover with her inside the Pits.


I saw 2 websites giving to *Robin 7* a 9 as REVIEW..  :Cool: 

https://geekdad.com/2021/10/review-r...ve-and-murder/

https://aiptcomics.com/2021/10/26/robin-7-review/

----------


## Rac7d*

> I always saw that as a Chance but.. I though that 
> *spoilers:*
> Mother soul would transform in that monster wanting to be inmortal.
> *end of spoilers*
> 
> I remember one cover with her inside the Pits.
> 
> 
> I saw 2 websites giving to *Robin 7* a 9 as REVIEW.. 
> ...


Well deserved now we wait another month

----------


## dietrich

> Watched Injustice and actually found it quite funny and a good movie. It's very different from the source so I get why those familiar with the property might have issues. It cuts out a shit ton. However these movies aren't made for the niche comic base. The movie as a movie is a good time and I bet casuals [the main target] will enjoy this.
> 
> It's very marvel with the humour which was on point.
> 
> Dick and Damian I thought were improved on and both got a lot more screen time due to the very very streamlined cast. 
> 
> I actually really liked what they did with Dick and Damian. Heck I liked what they did with a lot of the characters Mr Terrific, Harley, Plastic Man, Catwoman. Liked them all.


I saw comments about it sucking but I enjoyed it and thought they did Damian/Dick incident much better.

As a fan of both characters I was pleasantly pleased with way both were handled.

It wasn't really an adaptation, more like a synopsis of the Injustice series with lots of changes.

----------


## dietrich

> I always saw that as a Chance but.. I though that 
> *spoilers:*
> Mother soul would transform in that monster wanting to be inmortal.
> *end of spoilers*
> 
> I remember one cover with her inside the Pits.
> 
> 
> I saw 2 websites giving to *Robin 7* a 9 as REVIEW.. 
> ...


Sounds like issue 7 was good can't wait to read it.

----------


## adrikito

You did not read it yet??

Then forget what the solicitations says.. I think that Williamson delayed it. 

Something that could be good for those who still say they need more time to start a ship.

----------


## dietrich

> You did not read it yet??
> 
> Then forget what the solicitations says.. I think that Williamson delayed it. 
> 
> Something that could be good for those who still say they need more time for a ship.


No. They were all sold out at my comic shop. I don't have a pull list like some fans so I have to go into the shop and pick the books I want from the shelves and this time Robin was all sold. 

I should get my hands in it by next week.

It seem it was a good issue and there was no romance.

----------


## adrikito

> It seem it was a good issue and there was no romance.


NOT YET.. 


But they met again in this issue. Like half of the issue is about it.

----------


## Blue22

People are really losing their shit and overreacting to some passing mentions of Talia in the webtoon (one of the chapters you had to pay to see early). I like Talia too and hate when she's portrayed as being cartoonishly evil (looking at you, Batman: Bad Blood) but folks are really acting like the lady is fucking Mother Theresa. Someone straight up called Talia a good person and just....No. No she is not. And that's part of what makes her such an interesting character. Hell, Bruce isn't even really a good person XD

One off-hand comment about her coming at Damian with a sword once and suddenly "ZOMG they're using Morrison Talia! This series is racist!" 

Like...this is what tipped you off that the Morrison books happened? Not Damian bringing up his death during the crime fighting Bingo chapter?

----------


## adrikito

If people is now complaining about Talia for these old movies... The things will maybe turn worst later for her. ONLY in the case that Respawn is her son too..

For now it seems that is another Slade son.. Grant had 0 reasons to hate Damian unless confuses him with Dick Grayson or hates Robins in general.

----------


## Blue22

I'm reeeeeeeeeally hoping that's not the case and he's just a de-aged Grant Wilson. Talia can do better than Slade lol

----------


## adrikito

> I'm reeeeeeeeeally hoping that's not the case and he's just a de-aged Grant Wilson. Talia can do better than Slade lol


Make him de-aged is easy. Is resurrect him 1 year ago FOR EXAMPLE. To make him age the less possible since his dead many years ago.


Some fans think that what PRIEST tried to make(Slade&Talia child) can happen with Respawn.

In my case I do not care too much. I know how is Slade and I always had a bad image about Talia. 

*Better than make Athanasia canon.*

----------


## dietrich

> People are really losing their shit and overreacting to some passing mentions of Talia in the webtoon (one of the chapters you had to pay to see early). I like Talia too and hate when she's portrayed as being cartoonishly evil (looking at you, Batman: Bad Blood) but folks are really acting like the lady is fucking Mother Theresa. Someone straight up called Talia a good person and just....No. No she is not. And that's part of what makes her such an interesting character. Hell, Bruce isn't even really a good person XD
> 
> One off-hand comment about her coming at Damian with a sword once and suddenly "ZOMG they're using Morrison Talia! This series is racist!" 
> 
> Like...this is what tipped you off that the Morrison books happened? Not Damian bringing up his death during the crime fighting Bingo chapter?


fans can be bothersome. 90's fans are entitled as fuck. Today's fans are quick to see ism's and throw around labels without thinking.

Damian fans on tumblr have become very vocal and political all of a sudden. Possibly emboldened by the incorrect belief that they were the ones who saved Damian from the awful heel and quitting Robin.

Unaware that Williamson and other higher ups changing plans was the reason why his role in 5g was changed.

It's getting tiresome. They complain about Flatline.
They complain about Damian's characterisation in Beast Boy loves Raven [a title that could Damian a foot hold in the YA crowd since it performs much better than his title]

I get that they want Damian in character, we all want that but fictional characters are handled by various writers and often have different interpretations. The more popular the more varied the characterisations are due to greater use.

Talia is an antagonist who abused her kid and bombed bludhaven. She is a bad guy who does bad things. Sure there have been instances where she did good things. Joker helped Batman against TBWL that doesn't make him a nice guy. Hopefully the web series writers will take notice and ignore Talia opting fir the more popular Selina.

It's not like they have to use Talia. I enjoyed Selina and Damian and I don't need any negativity with the one bat series that's my current go to for warm fuzzies.

----------


## dietrich

> I'm reeeeeeeeeally hoping that's not the case and he's just a de-aged Grant Wilson. Talia can do better than Slade lol


My crackship is Talia and Savage.

----------


## Jackalope89

> My crackship is Talia and Savage.


I just threw up in my mouth a little.

----------


## dietrich

> I just threw up in my mouth a little.


lol! T don't know why and I'm not even sorry.

----------


## adrikito

> fans can be bothersome. 90's fans are entitled as fuck. Today's fans are quick to see ism's and throw around labels without thinking.
> 
> Damian fans on tumblr have become very vocal and political all of a sudden. Possibly emboldened by the incorrect belief that they were the ones who saved Damian from the awful heel and quitting Robin.
> 
> Unaware that Williamson and other higher ups changing plans was the reason why his role in 5g was changed.
> 
> It's getting tiresome. They complain about Flatline.


WTF people leaving ROBIN(a good comic) and complaining about Flatline?? I wonder why..  She killed him? YEAH. But he killed her now.  :Stick Out Tongue:  Ha.. Save him. What a group of idiots. 

In theory only Damijons can hate her. I think that Damirae understands that he can be with her in comics.

Anyway TUMBLR users are usually stupid and Toxic not surprised about it. Fortunately I stopped visiting that place many years ago.

----------


## Morgoth

Currently new issue is in top-6 on Comixology, even higher than 'Tec. That's really a good result.

----------


## adrikito

> Currently new issue is in top-6 on Comixology, even higher than 'Tec. That's really a good result.


Excelent News.

Visiting comicbookroundup I found a 10 Review for a critic part.  :Cool: 

https://butwhythopodcast.com/2021/10...robin-issue-7/

I liked these lines:




> Williamson has won me over when no other writer has in the past when it comes to rooting for Damian. He has taken the struggles the character endured in the Batman titles, most notably the murder of Alfred Pennyworth, and infused them into Damian’s essence to pull out kernels of personal advancement. Not only has he taken in what Alfred exemplified, but Damian also evidences positive discipline from Ravager, Flatline, and the other Robins and has placed one foot forward on the path to being a better hero. 
> 
> This is a significant development, and it comes just in time as the stakes increase. It will be thrilling to see how it unfolds after the demonic tournament passes. Also, I hope Ravager and Flatline at the very least remain in the book for some time to come, as they have become more rounded and it’s a shame to see the supporting cast step up, only to be forgotten and banished to comic book limbo.

----------


## Jackalope89

Williamson has most certainly been a pleasant surprise on the Bats overall.

----------


## Light of Justice

> WTF people leaving ROBIN(a good comic) and complaining about Flatline?? I wonder why..  She killed him? YEAH. But he killed her now.  Ha.. Save him. What a group of idiots. 
> 
> In theory only Damijons can hate her. I think that Damirae understands that he can be with her in comics.
> 
> Anyway TUMBLR users are usually stupid and Toxic not surprised about it. Fortunately I stopped visiting that place many years ago.


Damirae fans are vicious to Djinn, but to be fair their character design is somewhat similar (dark, mysterious, connected with supernatural beings, can float, etc)

I don't see any vocal hate for Flatline, only those who want Damian as a forever baby and gatekeeping him from having any romantic relationship (including Damijon).

----------


## Blue22

It still weirds me out how people think Damian and Raven could happen anywhere other than those movies. He's a 14 year old boy (who's only been 14 for like....five minutes) and she's a grown woman. And, unlike Djinn, she doesn't look like a child to make it less weird xD

DC has gone back and forth on Raven and Gar's ages a lot but I'm glad they're firmly established as being a part of Dick's generation now. That's where they should have always been. Which means no DamiRae.

And thank God for that. Everyone loved it in the movies but I always thought those two were a really boring pair. Don't get me started on Raven bringing Damian back to life and unlocking her white form with the power of love, like she's Sailor Fucking Moon. In a movie that was taking itself pretty seriously up until that point xD

It's definitely not gonna happen but I am still firmly in the Damian/Maps ship lol

----------


## Rac7d*



----------


## adrikito

> Damirae fans are vicious to Djinn, but to be fair their character design is somewhat similar (dark, mysterious, connected with supernatural beings, can float, etc)
> 
> I don't see any vocal hate for Flatline, only those who want Damian as a forever baby and gatekeeping him from having any romantic relationship (including Damijon).


I can understand them thinking that they tried to make a copy of Raven or something like this..


Want Damian being a baby forever... How stupid. Even those who want that now would end bored(it would turn in something too repetitive) about that with the pass of years.. 
They did not see Tim case? The poor is suffering because DC does not know what make with him..


I think that Damijons are fine in both cases.. I still can erase from my mind how one of them celebrated Jon sexuality  :Mad:

----------


## adrikito

> 


I saw it before but I would like the 4 as team. 

You can Ship Damian with Flatline and... Rose with Connor. If you want  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Rac7d*

> I saw it before but I would like the 4 as team. 
> 
> You can Ship Damian with Flatline and... Rose with Connor. If you want


Rose has something going on with Jason, but I hope they stay friends, rivals, allies
Dont need to be a team

----------


## Jackalope89

Yeah, wasn't a fan of the "DamiRae" thing in the animated films. To me, Raven may be a little younger than Dick, but only by a few years at most. So it never felt right to me.

Djinn, yeah by human years, she's way up there. By genie years, that's not as clear. With Maps and Flatline, they're both right about the same age as Damian at least.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I saw it before but I would like the 4 as team. 
> 
> You can Ship Damian with Flatline and... Rose with Connor. If you want


Like what Rac7d* said, and the comic in an earlier issue said as well; if anything, its Rose and Jason that seem to have something going on. And I don't feel opposed to it. Do I still like Jason and Artemis? Yes. But Jason and Rose is fine as well.

----------


## adrikito

> Rose has something going on with Jason, but I hope they stay friends, rivals, allies
> Dont need to be a team


OH. I forgot about it

SORRY. I Like Rose&Jason too.. Despite like him with artemis too.

But in theory Rose should continue here during some time until RESPAWN mystery is resolved probably when ROBIN&DEATHSTROKE collide. 

So maybe after Lazarus island arc.

----------


## dietrich

I loved Damian and Raven. Thought they were one of the highlights of the Animated Universe. Was very surprised to see how huge the ship became. 
I'm kinda hoping that we get to see a continuation of the ship in the movies. I don't want or need it to carry over to the Comics cos it won't work.

----------


## dietrich

> Like what Rac7d* said, and the comic in an earlier issue said as well; if anything, its Rose and Jason that seem to have something going on. And I don't feel opposed to it. Do I still like Jason and Artemis? Yes. But Jason and Rose is fine as well.


If anything goes it depends on the writer. Just because we've seen Jason and Rose doesn't mean it'll happen and doesn't stop Rose getting with anyone else.

I like Rose with Conner and i like Rose with Jason.

No one character belongs to just one character.

I always heard Hawke was LGBTq honestly.

----------


## dietrich

> Currently new issue is in top-6 on Comixology, even higher than 'Tec. That's really a good result.


Williamson is knocking it out. What I like the most about this series is when I see readers who aren't normally interested in Damian liking it. They come for the Tournament and they are having a blast.

----------


## adrikito

> Like what Rac7d* said, and the comic in an earlier issue said as well; if anything, its Rose and Jason that seem to have something going on. And I don't feel opposed to it. Do I still like Jason and Artemis? Yes. But Jason and Rose is fine as well.


We both think the same about Jason ships  :Big Grin: 




> I loved Damian and Raven. Thought they were one of the highlights of the Animated Universe. Was very surprised to see how huge the ship became. 
> I'm kinda hoping that we get to see a continuation of the ship in the movies. I don't want or need it to carry over to the Comics cos it won't work.


I would like it too.




> I always heard Hawke was LGBTq honestly.


REALLY? I see. Maybe for this I saw a twitter user once shipping him with Damian..

----------


## Blue22

> If anything goes it depends on the writer. Just because we've seen Jason and Rose doesn't mean it'll happen and doesn't stop Rose getting with anyone else.
> 
> I like Rose with Conner and i like Rose with Jason.


Meanwhile, I'm over here as the one guy who still ships Rose and Bart because of their interactions in Johns' Teen Titans XD

----------


## CPSparkles

Trick or Treat



https://flaffizz.tumblr.com

----------


## adrikito

Another one with Damian and the BATGIRLS:

Damian Wayne Robin Stephanie Brown Spoiler Batgirl Cassandra Cain.jpg

----------


## marhawkman

> Another one with Damian and the BATGIRLS:
> 
> Damian Wayne Robin Stephanie Brown Spoiler Batgirl Cassandra Cain.jpg


It amuses me that Cass is eating candy already.

----------


## WonderNight

> Another one with Damian and the BATGIRLS:
> 
> Damian Wayne Robin Stephanie Brown Spoiler Batgirl Cassandra Cain.jpg


Is Stephanie in a black canary costume? That should be her new batgirl costume  :Cool:

----------


## Jackalope89

> Is Stephanie in a black canary costume? That should be her new batgirl costume


Looks like a Huntress mask was added to it too. And maybe the main suit minus the cape? Because if it was Black Canary, it would have the fishnets and small jacket.

----------


## adrikito

> Looks like a Huntress mask was added to it too. And maybe the main suit minus the cape? Because if it was Black Canary, it would have the fishnets and small jacket.


She mentions Black Canary here wondering how she is able to wear that All the day




> Is Stephanie in a black canary costume? That should be her new batgirl costume


YES. is black canary costume

Steph is not any of these Heroines who use provocative costumes. So is unlikely see her wear something like this

----------


## Eckri

> Another one with Damian and the BATGIRLS:
> 
> Damian Wayne Robin Stephanie Brown Spoiler Batgirl Cassandra Cain.jpg


Oh that's nice, Steph teaching Cass and Damian the joys of Halloween. 

Along with patrolling the crime ridden streets of Gotham and they're in costume too.





> Is Stephanie in a black canary costume? That should be her new batgirl costume





> Looks like a Huntress mask was added to it too. And maybe the main suit minus the cape? Because if it was Black Canary, it would have the fishnets and small jacket.



The inspiration, found the thread that the pic originated from, is that Steph is dressed as Golden Age Black Cat while Damian is dressed as her side kick Kitten. Dunno what Cass is dressing though.

----------


## dietrich

> It amuses me that Cass is eating candy already.


Someone has a sweet tooth  :Smile:

----------


## dietrich

> Trick or Treat
> 
> 
> 
> https://flaffizz.tumblr.com


The bee costume is so cute

----------


## dietrich

> Another one with Damian and the BATGIRLS:
> 
> Damian Wayne Robin Stephanie Brown Spoiler Batgirl Cassandra Cain.jpg


Steph had got some Queen Bey curves going on.

----------


## scary harpy

> ...
> 
> The inspiration, found the thread that the pic originated from, is that Steph is dressed as Golden Age Black Cat while Damian is dressed as her side kick Kitten. Dunno what Cass is dressing though.


Maybe the golden-age Black Bat?

----------


## dietrich

Can't wait for Superman and Robin







https://twitter.com/VikBogdanovic

----------


## Blue22

It would be the one Super Sons book I'm skipping that puts Damian in the Hellbat armor -____-

But damn that looks awesome!

----------


## Jackalope89

> Maybe the golden-age Black Bat?


Golden Age Black Bat isn't a DC property though.




> Can't wait for Superman and Robin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/VikBogdanovic


Okay, now Damian, crush the imposter into dust and go save your real friend.

----------


## Fergus

> Can't wait for Superman and Robin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/VikBogdanovic


These are from Superman and Robin? Nice. I suppose that's Damian in the Hellbat? 

This keeps getting better and better.

----------


## WonderNight

> Steph had got some Queen Bey curves going on.


You saw that Robin's cover, steph puts in that gym work!!!

----------


## garazza

> It would be the one Super Sons book I'm skipping that puts Damian in the Hellbat armor -____-
> 
> But damn that looks awesome!


Agreed. 

DC sure does employ some great artists.

----------


## Blue22

I desperately need to see the results of this fusion lol

----------


## adrikito

> https://twitter.com/VikBogdanovic


He looks like a Jason Todd fan here with part of his hair in white.  :Confused:

----------


## HsssH

Has anyone else asides of Tomasi used Hellbat armor?

----------


## adrikito

> Has anyone else asides of Tomasi used Hellbat armor?


One TOO DANGEROUS ENEMY for Damian?? Something like Doomsday but less dangerous.

that Armor was used before for humans against DARKSEID and CYBORG SUPERMAN.

----------


## Fergus

> Has anyone else asides of Tomasi used Hellbat armor?


The harley quinn tv show.

----------


## Fergus

> He looks like a Jason Todd fan here with part of his hair in white.


Jason's white streak is supposed to be from the trauma of returning from the dead. Damian has done it 3 time and went to hell. Not so much of a Jason fan more like the ridiculous amount of trauma the young man has had to endure finally catching up to him.


It's a miracle Damian isn't a sliver fox at this point the amount of he's been through in his 14 years.

----------


## adrikito

> Jason's white streak is supposed to be from the trauma of returning from the dead. Damian has done it 3 time and went to hell. Not so much of a Jason fan more like the ridiculous amount of trauma the young man has had to endure finally catching up to him.
> 
> 
> It's a miracle Damian isn't a sliver fox at this point the amount of he's been through in his 14 years.


NO. He died 4 times and soon he will die a 5th time.

Yes. I know that is not his fan. But watch him like that in this image made me think in that.

MAYBE but... He did not returned to life using Lazarus Pits like Jason.

----------


## Jackalope89

> NO. He died 4 times and soon he will die a 5th time.
> 
> Yes. I know that is not his fan. But watch him like that in this image made me think in that.
> 
> MAYBE but... He did not returned to life using Lazarus Pits like Jason.


Nope. Lazarus Pits resurrection is no longer how Jason was brought back (was only for the New52 period). His resurrection is now back to being a "mystery" (though not sure if Super Boy Prime's Punch was the cause this time around). My personal head canon, is that Death herself, after having some tea and a snack with Jason, sent him back.

----------


## adrikito

> Nope. Lazarus Pits resurrection is no longer how Jason was brought back (was only for the New52 period). His resurrection is now back to being a "mystery" (though not sure if Super Boy Prime's Punch was the cause this time around). My personal head canon, is that Death herself, after having some tea and a snack with Jason, sent him back.


I see.. Damian looks cool with that in the image BUUUUTT.. I am a Jason fan too and I prefer not have Damian copying him.

----------


## Blue22

Baby Damian spotted in today's Young Justice episode


Look at him! He's friggin adorable!

Side Note:
They're re-using Talia's movie design (right down to her clothes). And judging from his hair, they'll probably end up recycling older Damian's design as well. If we ever get to that point, anyway. 

Not surprising, given how often this show and the DCAMU do that. But still kinda disappointing.

----------


## garazza

I actually really liked the character design of the DCAMU Damian. It perfectly captured Damian's time as Robin when things were a little more stable. He had a good VA, too. TBH, I wouldn't want a redesigned animated version of Damian anyway because you get things like Harley Quinn's Damian which is patently not Damian.

Think of it like this: the animated movies and the tv shows have very healthy fandoms (I'm not saying they're positive, I'm saying they've been able to thrive despite a lack of consistent content) so we may not be that far away from a renaissance of Super Sons content. There's an entire wealth of animated Damian content, so all you gotta do is make an original character design for Jon, which shouldn't be too hard, and you'll have recreated the elements that were present at the start of the Super Sons era. By the animated fandoms latching onto those two characters, they'll look to the old Super Sons books for content and mix it with some of the modern stories, most especially Jon's bisexuality, and we'll finally get the animated content the Super Sons were made for.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Baby Damian spotted in today's Young Justice episode
> 
> 
> Look at him! He's friggin adorable!
> 
> Side Note:
> They're re-using Talia's movie design (right down to her clothes). And judging from his hair, they'll probably end up recycling older Damian's design as well. If we ever get to that point, anyway. 
> 
> Not surprising, given how often this show and the DCAMU do that. But still kinda disappointing.


yeah we sw her last season, which was after  son of batman, and bad blood. Bruce greenwood is plays batman in both versions

----------


## Blue22

> I actually really liked the character design of the DCAMU Damian. It perfectly captured Damian's time as Robin when things were a little more stable. He had a good VA, too. TBH, I wouldn't want a redesigned animated version of Damian anyway because you get things like Harley Quinn's Damian which is patently not Damian.


Oh I did really like his design in the movies. I'll never complain about how it looks. I just...really don't like blatantly re-used assets like that. Just a small pet peeve of mine lol 




> Think of it like this: the animated movies and the tv shows have very healthy fandoms (I'm not saying they're positive, I'm saying they've been able to thrive despite a lack of consistent content) so we may not be that far away from a renaissance of Super Sons content. There's an entire wealth of animated Damian content, so all you gotta do is make an original character design for Jon, which shouldn't be too hard, and you'll have recreated the elements that were present at the start of the Super Sons era. By the animated fandoms latching onto those two characters, they'll look to the old Super Sons books for content and mix it with some of the modern stories, most especially Jon's bisexuality, and we'll finally get the animated content the Super Sons were made for.


Yeah I definitely see a lot of animated Super Sons content in the future and that does get me excited. My only concern is which Jon we'll be seeing more of.

----------


## 9th.

> I actually really liked the character design of the DCAMU Damian. It perfectly captured Damian's time as Robin when things were a little more stable. He had a good VA, too. TBH, I wouldn't want a redesigned animated version of Damian anyway because you get things like Harley Quinn's Damian which is patently not Damian.
> 
> Think of it like this: the animated movies and the tv shows have very healthy fandoms (I'm not saying they're positive, I'm saying they've been able to thrive despite a lack of consistent content) so we may not be that far away from a renaissance of Super Sons content. There's an entire wealth of animated Damian content, so all you gotta do is make an original character design for Jon, which shouldn't be too hard, and you'll have recreated the elements that were present at the start of the Super Sons era. By the animated fandoms latching onto those two characters, they'll look to the old Super Sons books for content and mix it with some of the modern stories, most especially Jon's bisexuality, and we'll finally get the animated content the Super Sons were made for.


I just googled Harley's Damian...he looks like an evil version of Dick from the TT series.

----------


## Frontier

> Oh I did really like his design in the movies. I'll never complain about how it looks. I just...really don't like blatantly re-used assets like that. Just a small pet peeve of mine lol


It's been pretty common in productions where Phil Bourassa has been involved, probably to save budget. Lot of movie designs popped up in season 3. 

(I do find it hilarious how the Shiva design is basically the same save for whether she's wearing pants or not).

----------


## Blue22

> It's been pretty common in productions where Phil Bourassa has been involved, probably to save budget. Lot of movie designs popped up in season 3. 
> 
> (I do find it hilarious how the Shiva design is basically the same save for whether she's wearing pants or not).


Oh believe me, I've noticed. I still vividly remember seeing Artemis as a part of Terra's lynch mob in the Judas Contract movie, Barry Allen and Catherine Cobert as Random Citizens #34 and #56 in JL: Dark, and the fact that Harper Row is literally just a pallet swap of Judas Contract Terra XD

----------


## Frontier

> Oh believe me, I've noticed. I still vividly remember seeing Artemis as a part of Terra's lynch mob in the Judas Contract movie, Barry Allen and Catherine Cobert as Random Citizens #34 and #56 in JL: Dark, and* the fact that Harper Row is literally just a pallet swap of Judas Contract Terra X*D


I...I feel like I should've seen that  :EEK!: .

----------


## Blue22

At this point, I'm surprised both universes have different Nightwing, Blue Beetle, and Beast Boy designs.

----------


## garazza

https://twitter.com/VikBogdanovic/st...488012/photo/1

----------


## Eckri

> Baby Damian spotted in today's Young Justice episode
> 
> 
> Look at him! He's friggin adorable!
> 
> Side Note:
> They're re-using Talia's movie design (right down to her clothes). And judging from his hair, they'll probably end up recycling older Damian's design as well. If we ever get to that point, anyway. 
> 
> Not surprising, given how often this show and the DCAMU do that. But still kinda disappointing.



Gotta give some credit to this version of Damian, at least he has a brother to look after him, it's a resurrected Jason but still a brother. 
Chesire does have a point on therapy, but with Jason there, eh. He'll turn out probably fine. 

And since Chesire and Talia spatted making a connection there, there's a hope for Lian and Damian team-up in some future season of the show. 
Lot of mother issues there.

----------


## adrikito

> https://twitter.com/VikBogdanovic/st...488012/photo/1


I do not know if is his style fault(or the scene) but I think that Damian looks younger again. Anyway. Why worry when I already discarded see this?

I though that Kandor people were released for ZOD.




> Baby Damian spotted in today's Young Justice episode
> 
> 
> Look at him! He's friggin adorable!
> 
> Side Note:
> They're re-using Talia's movie design (right down to her clothes). And judging from his hair, they'll probably end up recycling older Damian's design as well. If we ever get to that point, anyway. 
> 
> Not surprising, given how often this show and the DCAMU do that. But still kinda disappointing.


WOW. I heard that is from YJ but... Is like see one Flashback from the animated movies..

She looks like a younger version of that Talia that we saw Brainwashing Bruce.. The supposed love of her life.

----------


## Blue22

Yeah, we don't talk about what those movies did to Talia. One of the only people fucked over worse than Deathstroke. Overall, a really solid animated universe and I'm sad to see it gone. But MAN did it make some missteps.

----------


## dietrich

> Baby Damian spotted in today's Young Justice episode
> 
> 
> Look at him! He's friggin adorable!
> 
> Side Note:
> They're re-using Talia's movie design (right down to her clothes). And judging from his hair, they'll probably end up recycling older Damian's design as well. If we ever get to that point, anyway. 
> 
> Not surprising, given how often this show and the DCAMU do that. But still kinda disappointing.


I like when he has green eyes.

----------


## Blue22

I always liked the idea of him looking mostly like Talia but having Bruce's blue eyes.

----------


## dietrich

> https://twitter.com/VikBogdanovic/st...488012/photo/1


Damian always looks so strange with those lenses.

I hope that the supersons animated movie sticks to the OG run's dynamic. DC should have learnt from the zoom fiasco what works and not to let writers mess with the winning formula.

That was such a wasted potential.

----------


## adrikito

> Yeah, we don't talk about what those movies did to Talia. One of the only people fucked over worse than Deathstroke. Overall, a really solid animated universe and I'm sad to see it gone. But MAN did it make some missteps.


Remember that Talia is still EVIL. Young Justice can disappoint you with her too..

With Slade I already accepted that he is The Worst to start judging him or think that they ruined him.

----------


## Blue22

Oh I know Talia is...how she is. Remember, I was one of the people getting annoyed with this "good person/good mother" narrative some of her fans have started pushing. 

But those movies leaned HARD into her absolute worst self. From Damian's date rape conception to... pretty much all of her actions in Bad Blood. Her overzealous fans are one extreme but those movies were the opposite end of the spectrum. To me, Talia is best when she's more of a neutral presence. Not some mustache twirling villainous mastermind like her father is often portrayed as.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Oh I know Talia is...how she is. Remember, I was one of the people getting annoyed with this "good person/good mother" narrative some of her fans have started pushing. 
> 
> But those movies leaned HARD into her absolute worst self. From Damian's date rape conception to... pretty much all of her actions in Bad Blood. Her overzealous fans are one extreme but those movies were the opposite end of the spectrum. To me, Talia is best when she's more of a neutral presence. Not some mustache twirling villainous mastermind like her father is often portrayed as.


Well, even though extreme is most situations, R'as also has his own version of civility as well. 

For me when it comes to Talia; she's very flawed, yes. And considering her upbringing, its a wonder she has any conscience, but she does. I wouldn't call her a true neutral, but that's mainly because she still feels pulled in different directions. She loves and cares for Damian, but I also want her to have come to the decision that Damian would be best raised elsewhere, as hard as it might be.

----------


## adrikito

ROBIN 2021 ANNUAL #1 also has it's FOC this Sunday.

*This takes place between Robin #5 & #6* and shows Damian learning about the other fighters before the Tournament began! Including FLATLINE'S ORIGIN!

https://twitter.com/Williamson_Josh/...36325952507904

OK. Finally confirmed this annual timeline

----------


## Frontier

> Baby Damian spotted in today's Young Justice episode
> 
> 
> Look at him! He's friggin adorable!
> 
> Side Note:
> They're re-using Talia's movie design (right down to her clothes). And judging from his hair, they'll probably end up recycling older Damian's design as well. If we ever get to that point, anyway. 
> 
> Not surprising, given how often this show and the DCAMU do that. But still kinda disappointing.


I love how even as a young child Damian had the upright anime hair  :Stick Out Tongue: .

----------


## Morgoth

https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...1/2021-09.html
Damian's book is doing really good.

----------


## adrikito

> https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...1/2021-09.html
> Damian's book is doing really good.


50.000??? 

Good. Good. That is more than the previous month 47.000.

----------


## Shen

I'm Back Baby! 

Damn, I've missed this thread. 

Quick question just to clarify something. When Damian went into Gotham during City of Bane - was that under Bruce's orders or did he just do whatever he wanted?

----------


## adrikito

> I'm Back Baby! 
> 
> Damn, I've missed this thread. 
> 
> Quick question just to clarify something. When Damian went into Gotham during City of Bane - was that under Bruce's orders or did he just do whatever he wanted?


After Alfred was killed I think that Bruce said something about send Damian to save Alfred.. But I forgot the comic.

I think that Bruce was with Catwoman in that scene where he said that but I could be wrong about it.

----------


## 1smith

> I'm Back Baby! 
> 
> Damn, I've missed this thread. 
> 
> Quick question just to clarify something. When Damian went into Gotham during City of Bane - was that under Bruce's orders or did he just do whatever he wanted?


Under Bruce's orders, it was a part of his master plan. They both thought Alfred had escaped since he gave the all clear signal. Alfred lied and gave the signal, since he thought bruce would come himself. But Bruce's plan was for damian to get caught and distract them 
so the rest of the family could sneak in. Since he knew Thomas wouldn't kill his biological grandson.

People often get confused about this since it was a later reveal. Like I think the first issue has damian on his own, but the next issue reveals its bruce's plan.

Also the alfred who was killed was supposed to be clayface but editorial wanted alfred dead.

----------


## CPSparkles

> I'm Back Baby! 
> 
> Damn, I've missed this thread.


Welcome Back.

----------


## CPSparkles

> https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...1/2021-09.html
> Damian's book is doing really good.


Wow it's even higher than Nightwing. That's surprising. Even more surprising that it sold more than the issue 5 which had the other Robins. 

I hope sales keep going up as more people discover how awesome the Robin title is.

----------


## adrikito

> Wow it's even higher than Nightwing. That's surprising. Even more surprising that it sold more than the issue 5 which had the other Robins. 
> 
> I hope sales keep going up as more people discover how awesome the Robin title is.


Yeah.. Hoping that is a good year for him

There are some book that I am surprised that are under him..

EVEN HARLEY 7 Sold much less.

----------


## Harryrun

A Robin one shot will be featured in the winter special. They didn't mention which Robin. Its a story with Mr. Freeze.

----------


## adrikito

> A Robin one shot will be featured in the winter special. They didn't mention which Robin. Its a story with Mr. Freeze.


Probably Tim..

----------


## dietrich

> Probably Tim..


Hopefully not. It's about time Tim found a new name. It's getting confusing. How many titles with Robin does DC plan on releasing this year?

DC is at least consistent when it comes to splitting their fanbase and undermining their own characters.

----------


## dietrich

> https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...1/2021-09.html
> Damian's book is doing really good.


That's great. It's rare to see a title's sales numbers going up outside of crossovers and events. I'm guessing these numbers are also minus the digital sales?

----------


## dietrich

Damian is just the cutest. look at him in Robin colours. I really really hope we get a time skip do he can have more of a role in the next season at least.

----------


## Blue22

Not the next season. But hopefully in like two or three more if the show gets to the 7 seasons that Weisman wants. Time skips and off screen development have been this series' biggest flaws since season 2. I wanna see Damian and Jon in it eventually but...not at the expense of another big time skip. I can wait.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Damian is just the cutest. look at him in Robin colours. I really really hope we get a time skip do he can have more of a role in the next season at least.


Time will always be moving in this show so we may

----------


## Rac7d*

> Not the next season. But hopefully in like two or three more if the show gets to the 7 seasons that Weisman wants. Time skips and off screen development have been this series' biggest flaws since season 2. I wanna see Damian and Jon in it eventually but...not at the expense of another big time skip. I can wait.


They want the show to keep up with our time so if it takes 3 years to get a season then the time will reflect that in the season

----------


## adrikito

> Hopefully not. It's about time Tim found a new name. It's getting confusing. How many titles with Robin does DC plan on releasing this year?
> 
> DC is at least consistent when it comes to splitting their fanbase and undermining their own characters.


I think that I heard that he was Red ROBIN again recently.

Introduce Damian in ANOTHER PLACE and his Tim fanbase haters will complain again.

Also. DC could use this to make more propaganda about him being Bisexual.

----------


## Lal

Well, both Tim and Dick are having holiday-themed stories in UL 10, so it's likely Damian in the holiday special.

As for all the Robin titles right now - the Robins book won a vote, and the story focuses on all the previous Robins, so the name fits. And Robin&Batman focuses on the beginning of the first Robin career, so again it makes sense. 
It's actually nice that DC is focusing on the Robins and Batgirls.

----------


## Morgoth

> That's great. It's rare to see a title's sales numbers going up outside of crossovers and events. I'm guessing these numbers are also minus the digital sales?


Yep, and it's always pretty high in the top of digital sales as well.
With all of that it's actually pretty amusing to recall old plans for Damian, lol. His title doesn't have any connection to current events in Gotham (thank God), no tie-ins, no Batman, Bat-Family appeared just for one issue. Damian is literally holding this book on his own, and it sells really good. And they wanted to turn him into villain, lol.

----------


## Digifiend

> They want the show to keep up with our time so if it takes 3 years to get a season then the time will reflect that in the season


They only skipped one year this time, but it's two years since Outsiders was released.

----------


## Rac7d*

this robin is Dmaian wayne
It looks cute  i hope it good

----------


## garazza

https://twitter.com/VikBogdanovic/st...611284/photo/1

----------


## adrikito

> https://twitter.com/VikBogdanovic/st...611284/photo/1


WHAAAAAT??? He says that is a ROBIN COVER.

Ah.. It seems that according him is only 1 time cover. Maybe is for Robin Annual.

----------


## Morgoth

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/ras-...he-shadow-war/
It seems like Williamson is setting up Ra's centered event next year.

----------


## Rac7d*

> https://bleedingcool.com/comics/ras-...he-shadow-war/
> It seems like Williamson is setting up Ra's centered event next year.


it pays to be related to a A list villain who will never fully reform

Unfortunatley it means Robin will not escape the next big cross over event a second time

----------


## Rac7d*

> https://twitter.com/VikBogdanovic/st...611284/photo/1


that better not be joker

----------


## Restingvoice

Hmm this is how Vik-vic draws Joker

cat-luniscia-purple-stare-batman-ak-issue-4-page-3-smaller.jpg

No... looking at the hair style that peeks from the top of the picture, that maybe the ghost of Flatline... if she stays dead that long

----------


## Rac7d*

> Hmm this is how Vik-vic draws Joker
> 
> cat-luniscia-purple-stare-batman-ak-issue-4-page-3-smaller.jpg
> 
> No... looking at the hair style that peeks from the top of the picture, that maybe the ghost of Flatline... if she stays dead that long


she already alive again, its not her? maybe grandma, maybe its the start of a new arc

Damian is doing a final girl in a horror movie run and that boy is near fearless

----------


## HsssH

So it might be Batman/Robin/Deathstroke crossover?

----------


## adrikito

> Hmm this is how Vik-vic draws Joker
> 
> No... looking at the hair style that peeks from the top of the picture, that maybe the ghost of Flatline... if she stays dead that long


If you talk about the Annual Flatline is still alive.. Because is between Robin 5-6... But this could be Damian having a NIGHTMARE while he is sleeping 




> So it might be Batman/Robin/Deathstroke crossover?


It was not only one Robin&Deathstroke crossover?

----------


## Morgoth

> So it might be Batman/Robin/Deathstroke crossover?


Yeah, Williamson said, that these series are going to be connected.

----------


## Immortal Weapon

Concept art from the cancelled sequel to Arkham Knight that had Damien as Batman. It was going to be developed by WB Montreal

https://mobile.twitter.com/ArkhamCha...04698166546438

----------


## Harryrun

> Concept art from the cancelled sequel to Arkham Knight that had Damien as Batman. It was going to be developed by WB Montreal
> 
> https://mobile.twitter.com/ArkhamCha...04698166546438


Any news on the Arkham  Asylum Grant Morrison's project for Damian.

----------


## HsssH

> Any news on the Arkham  Asylum Grant Morrison's project for Damian.


Shelved, probably not happening.

----------


## Blue22

Okay, that is the absolute best that Damian has ever looked as Batman. All he needs is to ditch the cape.

----------


## Immortal Weapon

> Okay, that is the absolute best that Damian has ever looked as Batman. All he needs is to ditch the cape.


It will look like a modified Beyond suit without the cape.

----------


## Blue22

And that is 100% okay with me. I'm tempted to say go full Beyond/Cass Cain and have his whole face covered instead of just the top half.

----------


## Rac7d*

> And that is 100% okay with me. I'm tempted to say go full Beyond/Cass Cain and have his whole face covered instead of just the top half.


Like Jace?

----------


## Frontier

Reminds me of Batman from Justice League: 3000:

----------


## Rac7d*

Damian gauntlet in Robins killed me  like wow

----------


## adrikito

> Damian gauntlet in Robins killed me  like wow


I disliked see Damian hurting Tim like that.. For what his WORST FANS think about this ignoring what Jason did to Tim before.

But I saw this funny. Puberty  :Wink: 


ROBINS Stephanie Brown Damian Wayne.jpg

----------


## Blue22

> Damian gauntlet in Robins killed me  like wow


Damian, Steph, and Jason were all done a little dirty to some degree in this most recent issue. But I think Steph got it the worst. She's considered a "Fail" for saving Bruce's life but Jason's implied to have killed a man and gets a "pass". The fuck, Seeley?

Also the bit with the half naked chick was humorous but I'm not entirely sure if he'd get caught off guard *like that*. Puberty be damned, it's still Damian lol

----------


## adrikito

> Concept art from the cancelled sequel to Arkham Knight that had Damien as Batman. It was going to be developed by WB Montreal
> 
> https://mobile.twitter.com/ArkhamCha...04698166546438


Ahhh.. I like it. How bad that we will not see it.

It reminds me the Beyond suit.

----------


## Frontier

> Damian, Steph, and Jason were all done a little dirty to some degree in this most recent issue. But I think Steph got it the worst. She's considered a "Fail" for saving Bruce's life but Jason's implied to have killed a man and gets a "pass". The fuck, Seeley?
> 
> Also the bit with the half naked chick was humorous but I'm not entirely sure if he'd get caught off guard by *like that*. Puberty be damned, it's still Damian lol


You'd think it'd be a pre-requisite to fighting crime in Gotham not to be distracted by provocatively dressed women  :Stick Out Tongue: .

----------


## adrikito

> Reminds me of Batman from Justice League: 3000:


I would like to see TINA SUNG again. As Batman descendant she is one* DAMIAN Descendant* too.

----------


## Rac7d*

> I disliked see Damian hurting Tim like that.. For what his WORST FANS think about this ignoring what Jason did to Tim before.
> 
> But I saw this funny. Puberty 
> I thought it was hilarious.  Also Jason beats up Tim later it’s during the battle for the cowl when Bruce is gone. But Tim only hold the grudge against the child.
> 
> ROBINS Stephanie Brown Damian Wayne.jpg





> Damian, Steph, and Jason were all done a little dirty to some degree in this most recent issue. But I think Steph got it the worst. She's considered a "Fail" for saving Bruce's life but Jason's implied to have killed a man and gets a "pass". The fuck, Seeley?
> 
> Also the bit with the half naked chick was humorous but I'm not entirely sure if he'd get caught off guard *like that*. Puberty be damned, it's still Damian lol


I mean, I always thought Steph didn’t have enough training, but Bruce let her go out their anyway. They had retcon her time for a bit but imagine if they had not and the implication of having two robins die back to back

----------


## Jackalope89

> I mean, I always thought Steph didn’t have enough training, but Bruce let her go out their anyway. They had retcon her time for a bit but imagine if they had not and the implication of having two robins die back to back


They did a lot of retconning. Like the gauntlet with Jason? That was actually his last case before he died. Not his first. And it makes no sense as his first case either.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I disliked see Damian hurting Tim like that.. For what his WORST FANS think about this ignoring what Jason did to Tim before.
> 
> But I saw this funny. Puberty 
> 
> 
> ROBINS Stephanie Brown Damian Wayne.jpg


?? When did it happened (#@w@#)/?

----------


## adrikito

> ?? When did it happened (#@w@#)/?


In ROBINS 2.

----------


## Darkspellmaster

I took it as Damian trying to be polite for Steph's sake, not that he noticed her backside. But him being kicked like that? Yeah...no...I can't see that happening. Dick, sure, Jason, maybe, Duke possibly, Damian, no. Given where he grew up, I'm sure he saw enough backsides. I can't see him as being that interested in it like that, or at least when they're dealing with a serious situation.

----------


## adrikito

> I took it as Damian trying to be polite for Steph's sake, not that he noticed her backside. But him being kicked like that? Yeah...no...I can't see that happening. Dick, sure, Jason, maybe, Duke possibly, Damian, no. Given where he grew up, I'm sure he saw enough backsides. I can't see him as being that interested in it like that, or at least when they're dealing with a serious situation.


That he saw enough Backsides? WTF.. You are talking while he was training in the league?


Blame the PUBERTY for that. One Kid and one Teen are different.

----------


## HsssH

> Damian, Steph, and Jason were all done a little dirty to some degree in this most recent issue. But I think Steph got it the worst. She's considered a "Fail" for saving Bruce's life but Jason's implied to have killed a man and gets a "pass". The fuck, Seeley?
> 
> Also the bit with the half naked chick was humorous but I'm not entirely sure if he'd get caught off guard *like that*. Puberty be damned, it's still Damian lol


I think the point was that Steph wants to go after her father and thats why she failed "the test".

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I took it as Damian trying to be polite for Steph's sake, not that he noticed her backside. But him being kicked like that? Yeah...no...I can't see that happening. Dick, sure, Jason, maybe, Duke possibly, Damian, no. Given where he grew up, I'm sure he saw enough backsides. I can't see him as being that interested in it like that, or at least when they're dealing with a serious situation.


I can see he being kicked a little for Steph's comment, but more for underestimates Honeysuckle, this is very Damian

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I like the idea of Damian being a little baffled because puberty stuffs, but I love the idea of Damian being to proud for show this and act as it is nothing like when he said Steph has no chest with arms crossed.

but nothing is better than Damian saying for Bruce use protection when he was dating Selina.

----------


## garazza

I personally characterize Damian as being very health conscious and sex positive because he was raised by the icon herself Talia al Ghul so he's veryl aware of sex and sexuality and is very well-read on it, while he himself is very asexual, but most people don't see past his arrogant and pretentious personality as the brattiness (because of his age) and stuck-upness (because of his upbringing) that it is to find those aspects of his character, which is exactly why I love Damian so much because what better way to make a truly misunderstood character like Damian be misunderstood is to actually have a fraction of the audience genuinely misunderstand his character.

----------


## Blue22

> I personally characterize Damian as being very health conscious and sex positive because he was raised by the icon herself Talia al Ghul so he's veryl aware of sex and sexuality and is very well-read on it, while he himself is very asexual, but most people don't see past his arrogant and pretentious personality as the brattiness (because of his age) and stuck-upness (because of his upbringing) that it is to find those aspects of his character, which is exactly why I love Damian so much because what better way to make a truly misunderstood character like Damian be misunderstood is to actually have a fraction of the audience genuinely misunderstand his character.


This is pretty much how I've always viewed him. Though maybe not quite asexual. Just...not easily susceptible to that kind of stuff. At least not as much as most boys his age...or not as much as his father and Dick lol




> I like the idea of Damian being a little baffled because puberty stuffs, but I love the idea of Damian being to proud for show this and act as it is nothing like when he said Steph has no chest with arms crossed.
> 
> but nothing is better than Damian saying for Bruce use protection when he was dating Selina.


Hands down, one of my favorite DCAMU scenes. Love how fucking blunt he is like he's the awkward parent in this situation XD

----------


## Eckri

> I disliked see Damian hurting Tim like that.. For what his WORST FANS think about this ignoring what Jason did to Tim before.
> 
> But I saw this funny. Puberty 
> 
> 
> Attachment 115395



As Batman once said "The Hammers of Justice is Unisex". Damian would have taken those words to heart.

Think Damian wouldn't have give a hoot if some Poison Ivy looking villainesses is skirting around, think in my opinion, he'll only be distracted by that if he has a legit emotional connection to the person trying to distract him.

----------


## Blue22

> Think Damian wouldn't have give a hoot if some Poison Ivy looking villainesses is skirting around, think in my opinion, he'll only be distracted by that if he has a legit emotional connection to the person trying to distract him.


Yeah. Roundhouse getting Damian flustered by making Djinn come onto him? That I could understand. Damian getting so distracted by a random scantily clad henchwoman that he lets her get in a hit like that? Nah. But I'd be lying if I said it wasn't still funny XD

----------


## adrikito

> Think Damian wouldn't have give a hoot if some Poison Ivy looking villainesses is skirting around, think in my opinion, he'll only be distracted by that if he has a legit emotional connection to the person trying to distract him.


I am not who makes the comic. I only saw it funny.

Better than some things that used Supersons to troll him.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

They are all a little ooc in this comic... maybe Steph not, but I don't know her so much.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I personally characterize Damian as being very health conscious and sex positive because he was raised by the icon herself Talia al Ghul so he's veryl aware of sex and sexuality and is very well-read on it, while he himself is very assexual.



Hummmm... Agree... I believes he do know about it theoretically but still is kind lost in real life, I like this idea, kind Sheldon Cooper "when you kiss you move x muscles, your body products this hormone, this number of bacterias yada yada yada" but if someone wants to kiss him = lost.

----------


## garazza

> Hummmm... Agree... I believes he do know about it theoretically but still is kind lost in real life, I like this idea, kind Sheldon Cooper "when you kiss you move x muscles, your body products this hormone, this number of bacterias yada yada yada" but if someone wants to kiss him = lost.


As a fan of the Big Bang Theory, I like your comparison to Sheldon. Both are incredibly knowledgeable and intelligent, and both are lacking in people skills so they can be very off-putting to those that are not already used to them.

----------


## dietrich

@Garazza 
@Rebeca Armus

Agree with both assessments of Damian. At first I read Damian as Asexual. Even now after we've seen him on relationships, I still don't believe he's the sort to lose his head over a girl or give in to his hormones.

Damian strikes me as the sort who started a regime to master his hormones as soon as puberty set in and he started getting 'urges'.

That's if his extensive training while growing up didn't include some sort of ancient  meditation techniques that eliminates certain impulses.

Talia of all people should have and would have  taken steps to make her kid invulnerable to women like herself.

----------


## Rac7d*

> @Garazza 
> @Rebeca Armus
> 
> Agree with both assessments of Damian. At first I read Damian as Asexual. Even now after we've seen him on relationships, I still don't believe he's the sort to lose his head over a girl or give in to his hormones.
> 
> Damian strikes me as the sort who started a regime to master his hormones as soon as puberty set in and he started getting 'urges'.
> 
> That's if his extensive training while growing up didn't include some sort of ancient  meditation techniques that eliminates certain impulses.
> 
> Talia of all people should have and would have  taken steps to make her kid invulnerable to women like herself.


then you spend 6 months with the titans and beastboy and it all goes out the window

----------


## dietrich

> then you spend 6 months with the titans and beastboy and it all goes out the window


LOl! That's what happens when you stick a bunch of teens in a tower for years without adult supervising. Titans Tower is full of contagious teen hormones. Damian must have caught Beast Boy's horniness.
 :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Iclifton

I always like enjoy the small moments to remind us that Damien is still just a growing teenage boy. Makes sense he would be hormonal. Im sure the right costume would throw grown men off, let alone a 14 yr old. Part of Damien's charm is he acts or thinks he is older than he actually is.

----------


## Fergus

Interesting video.

Comic shop owner and editors chat about poor planning in comics. Why having multiple books with Robin in the title is stupid and bad for business.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> @Garazza 
> @Rebeca Armus
> 
> Agree with both assessments of Damian. At first I read Damian as Asexual. Even now after we've seen him on relationships, I still don't believe he's the sort to lose his head over a girl or give in to his hormones.
> 
> Damian strikes me as the sort who started a regime to master his hormones as soon as puberty set in and he started getting 'urges'.
> 
> That's if his extensive training while growing up didn't include some sort of ancient  meditation techniques that eliminates certain impulses.
> 
> Talia of all people should have and would have  taken steps to make her kid invulnerable to women like herself.


I don't think Talia could give Damian this training, let's say she did when he was 9-10 he would say "there is no reason for this training, no person, even more a woman, could distract me, the next Demon Head, of focusing in my mission, and girls are lousyyy".

Damian did believes he would never care about brothers, Alfred, animals, friends, killing... emotional and physical relationship is not different. He just needed to meet the right peoples ♡♡♡. Al Ghul training didn't work so well in the end...

***thinking more about it, Damian being kicked in that comic made less sense, there is who would distract Damian, I think, but not her... she is a meh sidekick, Supergirl is Supergirl and her mini skirt hade no effect in Damian.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I don't think Talia could give Damian this training, let's say she did when he was 9-10 he would say "there is no reason for this training, no person, even more a woman, could distract me, the next Demon Head, of focusing in my mission, and girls are lousyyy".
> 
> Damian did believes he would never care about brothers, Alfred, animals, friends, killing... emotional and physical relationship is not different. He just needed to meet the right peoples ♡♡♡. Al Ghul training didn't work so well in the end...
> 
> ***thinking more about it, Damian being kicked in that comic made less sense, there is who would distract Damian, I think, but not her... she is a meh sidekick, *Supergirl is Supergirl and her mini skirt hade no effect in Damian.*


You sure about that?

----------


## ChangingStation

> I think the point was that Steph wants to go after her father and thats why she failed "the test".


I'd point out that Cluemaster was pretty much considered dead at the time, to Steph's knowledge, so it's probably not literally because she'd go after her father. 

As for Damian getting sucker-punched, really I think he was just thinking he'd have an easier time beating her because of her clothing choices letting him be taken off guard, than actually being distracted by her lack of clothing.

----------


## HsssH

> Interesting video.
> 
> Comic shop owner and editors chat about poor planning in comics. Why having multiple books with Robin in the title is stupid and bad for business.


I heard that Batman is doing fine with having multiple titles with "Batman" written.

----------


## ChangingStation

> I heard that Batman is doing fine with having multiple titles with "Batman" written.


They probably mean it's easy to mix up Robin and Robins, but yeah, it is a little easy to point out flaws in that belief.

----------


## adrikito

> I always like enjoy the small moments to remind us that Damien is still just a growing teenage boy. Makes sense he would be hormonal. Im sure the right costume would throw grown men off, let alone a 14 yr old. Part of Damien's charm is he acts or thinks he is older than he actually is.


Yeah. People should had accepted that he could be Hormonal since he made the 13 years in 2016.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> You sure about that?



We talked about Damian's crushs here before, I am in the Team that believe he didn't have a crush in Super Girl, Rose and Steph, he definitely had a crush in Djinn and I am still not share about Red Arrow...

----------


## Rebeca Armus

https://archiveofourown.org/works/28588701

This is a link for a very funny fanfic about Damian, Dick and puberty, it's G, short and well written, if you like or know others like this I would love to read ☘

----------


## Blue22

I always saw his and Steph's relationship as more of "Big sister and annoying little brother" type of thing, but I definitely think that page more or less confirms that he was crushing a bit on Supergirl lol

As for Rose....I could see it. Especially since she was one of the only people on the Titans that he got along with.

----------


## CPSparkles

> We talked about Damian's crushs here before, I am in the Team that believe he didn't have a crush in Super Girl, Rose and Steph, he definitely had a crush in Djinn and I am still not share about Red Arrow...


Emiko is the only girl we have any canon evidence to support that he had a crush on.

Kara is simply Dick's assumption and he didn't even observe the two together so that's not supported.

Djinn liked Damian but there's nothing to support that Damian felt the same.

Rose and Steph are just odd Fam crack shops that have zero bases in canon.

It's a problem that a boy and girl/ Boy and Boy can't share panel together without people reading romance into it.

----------


## CPSparkles

> I heard that Batman is doing fine with having multiple titles with "Batman" written.


Batman is exceptional. I wouldn't expect what works for batman to work for any other character. Maybe Spiderman or X-men but those are also exceptional IP's.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Emiko is the only girl we have any canon evidence to support that he had a crush on.
> 
> Kara is simply Dick's assumption and he didn't even observe the two together so that's not supported.
> 
> Djinn liked Damian but there's nothing to support that Damian felt the same.
> 
> Rose and Steph are just odd Fam crack shops that have zero bases in canon.
> 
> It's a problem that a boy and girl/ Boy and Boy can't share panel together without people reading romance into it.


I don't you think Damian had a crush in Djinn? Did you read full Teen Titans? They have warm heart moments, he revels his identity for just her, he closed his eyes for kiss her, it's a crush.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Their eyes sparkle

----------


## CPSparkles

> I don't you think Damian had a crush in Djinn? Did you read full Teen Titans? They have warm heart moments, he revels his identity for just her, he closed his eyes for kiss her, it's a crush.


I did read TT. That is not what a crush is. 
Revealing his identity - Damian does that a lot. He just did that in Robin, he told the whole crowd who he is.

Having heart to heart [which was instigated by Djinn] is just being open

Closing his eyes for a kiss which she instigated is just a natural response.

A crush _a brief but intense infatuation for someone, especially someone unattainable.
_


Djinn had a crush on Damian not the other way around.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Their eyes sparkle


The above panel shows Djinn to be the one with the crush not Damian since she's the one making a move on Damian.

----------


## Blue22

It looks pretty mutual there, to me. Mutual enough for even Roundhouse to know to use Djinn against him. Hell even Damian's narration in that book suggested that "whatever he and Djinnn had was over" not long after that almost kiss. 

Pretty sure even before that, those two had another moment that ended with them both a little flustered.

----------


## CPSparkles

> It looks pretty mutual there, to me. Mutual enough for even Roundhouse to know to use Djinn against him. Hell even Damian's narration in that book suggested that "whatever he and Djinnn had was over" not long after that almost kiss. 
> 
> Pretty sure even before that, those two had another moment that ended with them both a little flustered.


What percentage of 13 year old hetero boys do you think get flustered when a girl [any girl] almost kisses them?

how many do you think get flustered after having a moment with a girl [any Girl]?

Lastly how many 13 year olds do you think will respond when a pretty girl tries to kiss them?

Once again none of your points indicate a crush. Willing to be kissed by a pretty girl isn't a crush.

RH isn't an expert or an accurate/reliable judge so not sure why we even bring him up here.

Damian's narration never said anything about him having feeling for her. sure it might have mentioned this moment when SHE came onto him and rightly so. Again doesn't mean it's mutual that he had a crush. Just means that they had a moment.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> What percentage of 13 year old hetero boys do you think get flustered when a girl [any girl] almost kisses them?
> 
> how many do you think get flustered after having a moment with a girl [any Girl]?
> 
> Lastly how many 13 year olds do you think will respond when a pretty girl tries to kiss them?
> 
> Once again none of your points indicate a crush. Willing to be kissed by a pretty girl isn't a crush.
> 
> RH isn't an expert or an accurate/reliable judge so not sure why we even bring him up here.
> ...


I don't Damian is a 13 years old boy that would to be kissed by ANY pretty girl... he acted different with Djinn, but I think we will keep disagreeing here, it's ok.

----------


## Blue22

Considering how easy it is for a 13 year old to experience a crush, I'd say it's a pretty safe assumption. Like... everything you just described sounds like having a crush on/attraction to someone. It's something even his own teammates noticed (more than once). And again that whole line about "Whatever Djinn and I had is over" does not come off like someone who didn't have some type of feelings. Even if they are simple as a crush. I'm not saying he was in love with her or anything or that she didn't initiate...whatever the hell was going on in that one page. Hell, I bet Djinn was the one who had more feelings than he did. But nothing I've seen suggests, to me, that it was a one sided thing.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Considering how easy it is for a 13 year old to experience a crush, I'd say it's a pretty safe assumption. Like... everything you just described sounds like having a crush on/attraction to someone. It's something even his own teammates noticed (more than once). And again that whole line about "Whatever Djinn and I had is over" does not come off like someone who didn't have some type of feelings. Even if they are simple as a crush. I'm not saying he was in love with her or anything or that she didn't initiate...whatever the hell was going on in that one page. Hell, I bet Djinn was the one who had more feelings than he did. But nothing I've seen suggests, to me, that it was a one sided thing.


Nothing i said describes Damian being infatuated. Nothing.
" people on the team could be seen to be infatuated.

Crush and Djinn.

You seriously can't be using the teen Titans as evidence?
1,There are comments by you on this very thread where you and others note how the Tt's changed the script and the story to suit their narrative. The said they were afraid of Damian.

That book and the team changed the story and frequently straight up lied.

The team made mention about Damian hurt someone who had feelings for him [or something along those lines] and Damian had no clue what they were talking about. Resulting in Crush punching him.

2, assumptions are facts. Dick assumed Damian had a crush on Kara doesn't mean he was right.

I'm not sure what the point of this discussion is but this illustrates how easy it is for shipping camps to start up

----------


## CPSparkles

> I don't Damian is a 13 years old boy that would to be kissed by ANY pretty girl... he acted different with Djinn, but I think we will keep disagreeing here, it's ok.


Damian was a 13 year old boy that can be kissed by any girl and has been kissed.
He didn't act different to Djinn since he was willing to accept a kiss from Emiko and blushed when she kissed him.

----------


## Blue22

> Nothing i said describes Damian being infatuated. Nothing.
> " people on the team could be seen to be infatuated.
> 
> Crush and Djinn.
> 
> You seriously can't be using the teen Titans as evidence?


I can when it's in relation to moments like this:



(Making me re-read this garbage run. I oughta sue for emotional distress lol)

There's only so much of Glass' Titans that I can stomach re-reading but I recall there being other small remarks from these fools about the obvious shipteasing between their teammates.




> 1,There are comments by you on this very thread where you and others note how the Tt's changed the script and the story to suit their narrative. The said they were afraid of Damian.
> 
> That book and the team changed the story and frequently straight up lied.


Oh they totally have. But I don't think this was one of those lies. Because...well...what the hell would anyone get out of lying about that? 

I also don't think anything they've said in relation to Djinn or Damian has anything to do with them being afraid of him...You'll have to forgive me for not being entirely sure how those two things correlate. That wasn't sarcasm, I genuinely might be misunderstanding what you're trying to say.




> The team made mention about Damian hurt someone who had feelings for him [or something along those lines] and Damian had no clue what they were talking about. Resulting in Crush punching him.


And I wouldn't expect Damian to be the brightest bulb when it comes to those kinds of things. But even if it's not something he recognizes as feelings for her, that doesn't mean it's not what it is. Especially when there's enough to imply the opposite. Or...again, at least there was for me. You clearly feel the opposite.

But the real clincher for me was this:

Even if he doesn't know what it was, he knows that something was there. Something he cared enough about to acknowledge in his narration.
(Also holy shit, the artist in this one issue is SO much better than their regular guy)




> 2, assumptions are facts. Dick assumed Damian had a crush on Kara doesn't mean he was right.


And that is entirely true. Whether or not you interpret Damian's response (i.e. not even denying it, but wanting to immediately end the conversation) was a confirmation is entirely up to you. But I thought that was enough to imply it. Obviously, I'm not shipping Kara and Damian (hell I don't even really go that hard for Damian and Djinn anymore), but if it's a cute crush that would obviously never go anywhere then it's whatever. 

All that said, I think we're making something as innocent and small-scale as a crush appear to be something much bigger than it actually is. It's something kids get all the time.




> I'm not sure what the point of this discussion is


Admittedly, it does seem weird to debate whether or not a fictional 13 year old had a crush on a 4,000 year old genie. But hey. I've seen weirder discussions when it comes to fandoms. And stuff like this is actually kinda fun. I like seeing how differently fans can interpret things that the author doesn't explicitly say. I thought it was clear as day that Damian felt something for Djinn (even if her feelings were stronger), but then...people tell me it's clear as day that Tim has feelings for Conner and I just don't see it lol




> but this illustrates how easy it is for shipping camps to start up


I'd say you have no idea but I peeped that RWBY avatar. If you've interacted with that HIGHLY unstable fandom then you know how fucking insane shippers can be XD

----------


## Rac7d*

> The above panel shows Djinn to be the one with the crush not Damian since she's the one making a move on Damian.


he leaned in to reciprocate, rather then say crush who just laid it on her
it was too awkward

Anyway I'm ready for our back to back hit of the tournament this month and perhaps February solicits will let us know where Damian and Flatline stand

----------


## Fergus

> he leaned in to reciprocate, rather then say crush who just laid it on her
> it was too awkward
> 
> Anyway I'm ready for our back to back hit of the tournament this month and perhaps February solicits will let us know where Damian and Flatline stand




I like how relaxed Damian looks in that last panel. I like how both characters look.

can't with for this issue and the secret to Immortal Abs.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I like how relaxed Damian looks in that last panel. I like how both characters look.
> 
> can't with for this issue and the secret to Immortal Abs.


I liked it, sadly, as we saw in the last comic, covers means nothing in comics '^^

----------


## Rac7d*

> I liked it, sadly, as we saw in the last comic, covers means nothing in comics '^^


I’d say 50 50 sometimes. You get exactly what you see

----------


## adrikito

> I can when it's in relation to moments like this:
> 
> 
> 
> (Making me re-read this garbage run. I oughta sue for emotional distress


Pff. Despite what Glass made to say to his favorite character Crush she stole Djinn from Damian later..  :Mad: 

Both of them look like girls that another person stole their beloved one with these angry faces.


*We are 17 of November and Wednesday.. Why there are Not news about the solicitations??*

----------


## dietrich

The fact that this crush discussion is going kinda underlines that Damian didn't have a crush. 

Didn't notice the line about the Immortal Abs before. That funny. can't wait to see what they have for that. Hopefully it's not a ruse.

----------


## Darkspellmaster

> The fact that this crush discussion is going kinda underlines that Damian didn't have a crush. 
> 
> Didn't notice the line about the Immortal Abs before. That funny. can't wait to see what they have for that. Hopefully it's not a ruse.


Okay who has the better immortal abs, Ras or Vandal Savage? Come on we can't just have one immortal showing off his abs. 

Regarding crushes and the like, Maps may have had one, though I'm not sure if the writers ever figured that they should have Damian crush on her too. 

Can Damian (Or Steph if they give her a Cassandra a book) get Nell Little back as I think having her around as a friend would be a nice thing after the tournament arc to maybe reintroduce her into the universe as they did have some fun chemistry in the Batgirl book.

----------


## Astralabius

> *We are 17 of November and Wednesday.. Why there are Not news about the solicitations??*


They always come out on a Friday and last Friday was propably simply too early in the month. Some big announcements, for example new books, might come out one or two days earlier, and the solicitations for a book like Batman might be out on Thursday, but I would never expect to hear anything about Robin until Friday.

----------


## Rac7d*

> They always come out on a Friday and last Friday was propably simply too early in the month. Some big announcements, for example new books, might come out one or two days earlier, and the solicitations for a book like Batman might be out on Thursday, but I would never expect to hear anything about Robin until Friday.


We getting snip of February books already so the list is out their hopefully by friday
I want to see the valentines special

----------


## adrikito

> They always come out on a Friday and last Friday was propably simply too early in the month. Some big announcements, for example new books, might come out one or two days earlier, and the solicitations for a book like Batman might be out on Thursday, but I would never expect to hear anything about Robin until Friday.


I see.. 2 more days in theory..




> We getting snip of February books already so the list is out their hopefully by friday
> I want to see the valentines special


I see..

A valentine special. How bad that in Damian current Death Tournament situation I can not see him here.

In theory this Arc ends in Robin 12.. Or maybe the new one started in Robin 12? Forgot about it.

----------


## Rac7d*

> I see.. 2 more days in theory..
> 
> 
> 
> I see..
> 
> A valentine special. How bad that in Damian current Death Tournament situation I can not see him here.
> 
> In theory this Arc ends in Robin 12.. Or maybe the new one started in Robin 12? Forgot about it.


the tournament will be over by then, at the most an epilogue chapter.
It appears DC may not do valentines day but rather Black history month special

----------


## Astralabius

> the tournament will be over by then, at the most an epilogue chapter.
> It appears DC may not do valentines day but rather Black history month special


There will be a valentine's special, it's called Weird Love Tales. But as many of DC's specials it's an anthology book and probably won't have an impact on any ongoing storylines.

----------


## Rac7d*

> There will be a valentine's special, it's called Weird Love Tales. But as many of DC's specials it's an anthology book and probably won't have an impact on any ongoing storylines.


I mean last year right after death metal we had the valentines day specials, where starfire had her little fit, kissed nightwing, then they followed up with a brief hook up in TTA before they immediately broke it off again so he could go back to bludhaven

----------


## Astralabius

> I mean last year right after death metal we had the valentines day specials, where starfire had her little fit, kissed nightwing, then they followed up with a brief hook up in TTA before they immediately broke it off again so he could go back to bludhaven


Not sure if the brief hook up in TTA and that story in the special are actually connected.

----------


## adrikito

> There will be a valentine's special, it's called Weird Love Tales. But as many of DC's specials it's an anthology book and probably won't have an impact on any ongoing storylines.


and of course harley is here  :Frown:  But after learn that DC made her kiss Ivy recently not surprised about it

https://comixwire.com/2021/11/17/dc-...february-2022/

This harley obsession is too annoying. Fortunately I am not too invested in the batfamily now.. DC even made her join(It was not enough be Suicide Squad leader?) and I saw her the NO6 in a TOP OF SUPERHEROINES.. WTF..




> the tournament will be over by then, at the most an epilogue chapter.
> It appears DC may not do valentines day but rather Black history month special


Tournament will maybe end in Robin 8-9.. The rest will be a fight against his Great Grandmother and the Lazarus Devl.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> and of course harley is here  But after learn that DC made her kiss Ivy recently not surprised about it
> 
> https://comixwire.com/2021/11/17/dc-...february-2022/
> 
> This harley obsession is too annoying. Fortunately I am not too invested in the batfamily now.. DC even made her join(It was not enough be Suicide Squad leader?) and I saw her the NO6 in a TOP OF SUPERHEROINES.. WTF..
> 
> 
> 
> Tournament will maybe end in Robin 8-9.. The rest will be a fight against his Great Grandmother and the Lazarus Devl.


For me Harley and Ivy are the best (canon) couple of DC, Harley tv show is amazing... love it. The new comic is super funny and the art is pretty nice.
I Haven't seen the movies, tought.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

If Robin becomes a hard cover comic and comes to Brazil I will definitely buy it. I am enjoying the art and story, and have a good feeling about how it will ends :3 I hope Damian gets 2-3 more friends and a little more peace for himself ❤

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Ah, is there someone that still thinks Damian will bring Alfred back? I was so sure about it in the begin, now I don't know if the story will take this direction.

----------


## Astralabius

> Ah, is there someone that still thinks Damian will bring Alfred back? I was so sure about it in the begin, now I don't know if the story will take this direction.


I thought this too when the backup stories in Batman and Detective came out, but when Damian came to the island I stopped thinking that.
Yes, the island is kinda a big lazarus pit. But you still need the body of a person to bring them back. I don't think Damian has stuffed Alfred's rotting corpse into his bag before going to the island and even if he did, someone would have noticed by now.

----------


## adrikito

> For me Harley and Ivy are the best (canon) couple of DC, Harley tv show is amazing... love it. The new comic is super funny and the art is pretty nice.
> I Haven't seen the movies, tought.


I saw here that Harley is... Still in the SUICIDE SQUAD?? She was not removed before made her join the Batfamily??

Both things is Too Much.. Not everyone wants to see her to create extra excuses to put her everywhere.





> Ah, is there someone that still thinks Damian will bring Alfred back? I was so sure about it in the begin, now I don't know if the story will take this direction.


I have some doubts about it.. Even in Lazarus Pits you need the person body here to make him resurrect.

----------


## dietrich

Damian in Dc v Vampires 2

----------


## dietrich

Not feeling Damian here. He does drink tea he isn't an infant that needs cocoa and marshmellows

----------


## dietrich

> I saw here that Harley is... Still in the SUICIDE SQUAD?? She was not removed before made her join the Batfamily??
> 
> Both things is Too Much.. Not everyone wants to see her to create extra excuses to put her everywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have some doubts about it.. Even in Lazarus Pits you need the person body here to make him resurrect.


Not everyone wants to see batman but dc puts him in a lot of stuff because a very large number of people want to see him in stuff. Harley just like Batman sells so it makes sense to put her in a lot of stuff. 

Demand drives Supply. harley gets far too much shit for simply being in high demand. Folks salty  AF!  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## adrikito

> Not everyone wants to see batman but dc puts him in a lot of stuff because a very large number of people want to see him in stuff. Harley just like Batman sells so it makes sense to put her in a lot of stuff. 
> 
> Demand drives Supply. harley gets far too much shit for simply being in high demand. Folks salty  AF!


Try to understand it.. We saw Harley having a lot of comics these years and even her Animated show.. She is Suicide Squad leader&Star and *as Gotham character already had one good excuse to appear here..* 

But involve her with the batfamily too?? WHY?? To make her appear even more in every Bat-member comic(nightwing, redhood,batgirl, robin) too with the excuse that she is a companion?


Hoping that the solicitations appear tomorrow in few hours.. If at least Robin 8 preview was out I would had something interesting to see.

----------


## dietrich

> Okay who has the better immortal abs, Ras or Vandal Savage? Come on we can't just have one immortal showing off his abs. 
> 
> Regarding crushes and the like, Maps may have had one, though I'm not sure if the writers ever figured that they should have Damian crush on her too. 
> 
> Can Damian (Or Steph if they give her a Cassandra a book) get Nell Little back as I think having her around as a friend would be a nice thing after the tournament arc to maybe reintroduce her into the universe as they did have some fun chemistry in the Batgirl book.


My money's on Ra's. Vandal seems to live too *Well* to have swoon worthy abs.

I don't see Vandal as the yoga loving tree hugging physically active type of Immortal.

But then again this is Vandal so...



Might need a refresher on nell

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Not feeling Damian here. He does drink tea he isn't an infant that needs cocoa and marshmellows


Yeah... I can see the exact opposite, like someone given cocoa for Damian and he saying he doesn't drink a such childish thing, buuuut trying it and liking without admitting... you know.

Writers taking care of characters they never read is a thing?

----------


## Rac7d*

F119C49E-2A8F-4839-89E5-282F17BCE7C1.jpg

I am so ready for it

----------


## Eckri

> F119C49E-2A8F-4839-89E5-282F17BCE7C1.jpg
> 
> I am so ready for it


Batman once said "When outmatched....cheat" 

If Connor is a top fighter by all accounts, then Damian what cheats do you have in mind.

----------


## adrikito

> F119C49E-2A8F-4839-89E5-282F17BCE7C1.jpg
> 
> I am so ready for it


lol... They have been observing the other during 1 HOUR  :Big Grin:  studying the rival and remembering that night

Flatline was surprised about her temporal dead.

*Her words were in purple because of that quote about the situation?*  :Confused:

----------


## adrikito

ROBIN 11 solicitation  :Cool:  

Robin 2021(11) Damian Wayne Robin Ravager Flatline.jpg

----------


## Rac7d*

> Batman once said "When outmatched....cheat" 
> 
> If Connor is a top fighter by all accounts, then Damian what cheats do you have in mind.


Does he need to cheat

----------


## Morgoth

I hope it's not farewell for supporting cast, considering, that in 12th issue Damian returns to Gotham.

----------


## Rac7d*

> I hope it's not farewell for supporting cast, considering, that in 12th issue Damian returns to Gotham.


Flatline is from Gotham 

Who can say for Connor is he gonna go confront his dad
Who knows with rose

----------


## Morgoth

> Flatline is from Gotham 
> 
> Who can say for Connor is he gonna go confront his dad
> Who knows with rose


Flatline is definitely staying. But Rose might leave for Deathstroke Inc. And regarding Connor, I think Williamson is setting-up some sort of Arrow Family book, and he will be there. Maybe even as Green Arrow, since there's this trend of sharing mantles.

----------


## adrikito

YEAH. NEW AVATAR.

*SECRET CRUSHES* are revealed in Robin 11. 

Maybe Rose fell for Connor too? Anyway.. Hearts are broken sound like a BAD THING..  :EEK!: 




> I hope it's not farewell for supporting cast, considering, that in 12th issue Damian returns to Gotham.


They would be a Great Team buuutt.. I think that Robin 11 will make the fighters take separated routes..

Someone will start a conflict. Probably Respawn wanting revenge for his defeat(and who knows which extra reasons) and others participants will make it even worst making all of them separate.. Probably Minus Damian and Flatline if both are agree in go to Gotham city together.

I feel bad for Connor because Rose will return in the Deathstroke Crossover.

----------


## Rac7d*

> YEAH. NEW AVATAR.
> 
> *SECRET CRUSHES* are revealed in Robin 11. 
> 
> Maybe Rose fell for Connor too? Anyway.. Hearts are broken sound like a BAD THING..


But but Jason

Also i still think Connor is lgbt

----------


## Rac7d*

> Flatline is definitely staying. But Rose might leave for Deathstroke Inc. And regarding Connor, I think Williamson is setting-up some sort of Arrow Family book, and he will be there. Maybe even as Green Arrow, since there's this trend of sharing mantles.


Is DC  trying to build worlds up for all the major JL Members

Aquamen event including Jackson, Garth Mera Tula and Arthur and Black Manta

Trial of the Amazon event including Philipus Hippolyta Diana Nubia Artemis Yara and possibly cassie and Donna

The batfamily is the blueprint

If only the Flashes and Supers could get it together






I am gonna be playing bluebird all while i read this on loop

----------


## adrikito

> But but Jason
> 
> Also i still think Connor is lgbt


JASON??? What happens with him??

Why do you think that about Connor? Or you are basing in one old comic to think that?  :Confused:

----------


## Rac7d*

> JASON??? What happens with him??
> 
> Why do you think that about Connor? Or you are basing in one old comic to think that?


Jason and Rose remember ?

----------


## adrikito

> Jason and Rose remember ?


Ahhhh... Sorry. Forgot about it.

Is just that the solicitation surprised me like if there were more ships here.. But probably between secondary characters.


About CONNOR why you said that? Curious about it.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Ahhhh... Sorry. Forgot about it.
> 
> Is just that the solicitation surprised me like if there were more ships here.. *But probably between secondary characters.
> *
> 
> About CONNOR why you said that? Curious about it.


oh absolutley watch XXL confess his love to black swan or something out of nowhere lol

I hope rose just confronts respawn without interruption.

----------


## adrikito

> oh absolutley watch XXL confess his love to black swan or something out of nowhere lol
> 
> I hope rose just confronts respawn without interruption.


Hahahahaa.. XXL is a kid. She would prefer Damian than him.

About Rose and Respawn I would not be surprised that until the Deathstroke crossover NOTHING.. It seems that Respawn will appear here.

In Robin 11 I can see half of the the issue after certain discussion the people battling between them until something stop it.. Or we could be lucky and Goliath appears and Damian decides leave that madness with Flatline.

----------


## Eckri

> Does he need to cheat


Probably if he knows he's outmatched.

Batman says in a fight it's about the last man standing, and the Batfamily takes those words to heart when severely outmatched. 

So, eh, I'll wager he might cheat in his fight against Connor, if Connor is truly really above Damian's game.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Probably if he knows he's outmatched.
> 
> Batman says in a fight it's about the last man standing, and the Batfamily takes those words to heart when severely outmatched. 
> 
> So, eh, I'll wager he might cheat in his fight against Connor, if Connor is truly really above Damian's game.


He doesn't want to kill to win this match I know that much. I don't think he needs to cheat. Who says he is outmatched.

His best feat to date is holding his own against deathstroke, I cant count him out

----------


## adrikito

> Probably if he knows he's outmatched.
> 
> Batman says in a fight it's about the last man standing, and the Batfamily takes those words to heart when severely outmatched. 
> 
> So, eh, I'll wager he might cheat in his fight against Connor, if Connor is truly really above Damian's game.


According ROBIN 9 Damian died a 2nd time.. Something that did not happened yet..

Connor or the Lazarus Devil will kill him in this issue.

----------


## marvelprince

> He doesn't want to kill to win this match I know that much. I don't think he needs to cheat. Who says he is outmatched.
> 
> His best feat to date is holding his own against deathstroke, I cant count him out


History says he’s outmatched. Honestly, if he outfights Conner I’m gonna be so annoyed but I trust Williamson here so let’s see where it goes. I’m more invested in a few of these characters and hope they stick around in the book when this arc is over.

----------


## Fergus

> History says heÂs outmatched. Honestly, if he outfights Conner IÂm gonna be so annoyed but I trust Williamson here so letÂs see where it goes. IÂm more invested in a few of these characters and hope they stick around in the book when this arc is over.


I would agree if this was mid 20's Connor who was pals with Kyle. This guy isn't that Conner and we don't really know what else about his past has been changed along with his age.

Also Bats and Robins are known to prep and cheat to win. Damian is cunning, resourceful and does his prep.

He took down Cyborg, hawkgirl, bested Lex and took down Gotham Girl. All more powerful than Connor by researching and prepping ahead off time. 

So he can win. Hopefully no arse pulls or Connor Jobbing. It has to be believable. Fans are already betting on Connor and getting their pitchforks ready

----------


## Jackalope89

> I would agree if this was mid 20's Connor who was pals with Kyle. This guy isn't that Conner and we don't really know what else about his past has been changed along with his age.
> 
> Also Bats and Robins are known to prep and cheat to win. Damian is cunning, resourceful and does his prep.
> 
> He took down Cyborg, hawkgirl, bested Lex and took down Gotham Girl. All more powerful than Connor by researching and prepping ahead off time. 
> 
> So he can win. Hopefully no arse pulls or Connor Jobbing. It has to be believable. Fans are already betting on Connor and getting their pitchforks ready


He also prepped before hand to take down Jason when he thought Jason had betrayed them, and got the crap beaten out of him for all his effort.

----------


## Eckri

> I would agree if this was mid 20's Connor who was pals with Kyle. This guy isn't that Conner and we don't really know what else about his past has been changed along with his age.


To be fair, with the whole Death Nights Death Metal event, with everyone having memories from other universes. E.G. DickBats and Damian Robin, Roy, Wally, and etc.

Chances are Connor is still that Connor from the former universe, just that he has the memories from before and the memories in the current universe. 

That's deadly, and taking that into consideration. 

Damian by all accounts should loose unless he pulls a cheat, I'm on Damian's side if he pulls a cheat on Connor but just depends on how he cheats, and how well he executes it.





> He also prepped before hand to take down Jason when he thought Jason had betrayed them, and got the crap beaten out of him for all his effort.


Oh that brings a thought, is there a time where Batman's prep time plans failed, can't remember in recent memories.

----------


## Fergus

> He also prepped before hand to take down Jason when he thought Jason had betrayed them, and got the crap beaten out of him for all his effort.


Going suicide bomber isn't prep, that's just negative stereotyping in a title that was written specifically to force the character to fail and mess up repeatedly leading to an eventual heel turn to 5G big Bad.

that questionable choice of prep and fight was deliberately to force his fall.

Damian at age 10 already beat Jason. knocked him out and he didn't need prep to do that. Just his tiny fists.  

Maybe using perp on an opponent that you know you can beat and have beaten leads to getting the crap beaten out you.

----------


## Fergus

> To be fair, with the whole Death Nights Death Metal event, with everyone having memories from other universes. E.G. DickBats and Damian Robin, Roy, Wally, and etc.
> 
> Chances are Connor is still that Connor from the former universe, just that he has the memories from before and the memories in the current universe. 
> 
> That's deadly, and taking that into consideration. 
> 
> Damian by all accounts should loose unless he pulls a cheat, I'm on Damian's side if he pulls a cheat on Connor but just depends on how he cheats, and how well he executes it.
> 
> 
> ...


City of Bane was a prep fail.

DickBats still happened in the main Universe. That was never out of continuity or forgotten.

 You might be right about Coonor having memories of pre Flashpoint but we don't know what his history in that Universe is. Not everything pre Flashpoint actually happened. eg Bludhaven was never destroyed.

Everything is not canon apparently.

----------


## adrikito

> To be fair, with the whole Death Nights Death Metal event, with everyone having memories from other universes. E.G. DickBats and Damian Robin


Dickbats and Robin were still canon in n52

It was mentioned before damian death to say one example

----------


## Eckri

> City of Bane was a prep fail.
> 
> DickBats still happened in the main Universe. That was never out of continuity or forgotten.
> 
>  You might be right about Coonor having memories of pre Flashpoint but we don't know what his history in that Universe is. Not everything pre Flashpoint actually happened. eg Bludhaven was never destroyed.
> 
> Everything is not canon apparently.


Oh right, the early New 52 seems so long but only a decade ago.

Regarding the everything is canon bit, I'm still having my head around to understand it. 

Isn't the point of it, is that everything that happened before is now remembered. Like sure Bludhaven wasn't destroyed in the current universe but the memory of the city being destroyed, now thanks to the Death Metal, is now remembered. 

Kinda like, using a guess example, Dick remembers his Silver Age adventures as Robin and his Batgirl was Bette Kane, but current universe Dick never had a history with Bette Kane but remembers what happened in the Silver Age. Another one being that Steph now remembers giving birth and having a child, despite current universe Steph never got pregnant.

So Everything is still canon but only when the writer wants the character to remember certain Pre-Flashpoint events.

Dunno about Connor but if I remember that if Shiva can call Connor a good fighter Pre-Flashpoint, Death Metal saying that all characters have memories of Pre-Flashpoint, then Connor is deadly.

Dunno, maybe I got Death Metal wrong, all I got there is that everyone now remembers. If I got anything wrong, then someone fact check me on that.




> Dickbats and Robin were still canon in n52
> 
> It was mentioned before damian death to say one example


Oh right right, just basing it off what happened and implies in Death.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Regarding the everything is canon bit, I'm still having my head around to understand it. 
> 
> Isn't the point of it, is that everything that happened before is now remembered. Like sure Bludhaven wasn't destroyed in the current universe but the memory of the city being destroyed, now thanks to the Death Metal, is now remembered. 
> 
> Kinda like, using a guess example, Dick remembers his Silver Age adventures as Robin and his Batgirl was Bette Kane, but current universe Dick never had a history with Bette Kane but remembers what happened in the Silver Age. Another one being that Steph now remembers giving birth and having a child, despite current universe Steph never got pregnant.
> 
> So Everything is still canon but only when the writer wants the character to remember certain Pre-Flashpoint events.


Correct, but I don't know if remembering means retaining that ability, for example, the current version of King Snake is not that good, while in the 80s he's one of the top martial artists that Shiva sought to challenge. and she only goes after the greatest unless it's a job. 

(Although years later King Snake was trapped and starved, then died, so that may affect his performance... who knows...)

Connor was one of the few who can make Shiva bleed and she considered him a successor if he managed to kill her, but he lost.

----------


## Rac7d*

On if the contestants in then tournament best bronze tiger before coming here, they were defeated by flatline who was beat by Damian so either he has a chance or skill means nothing and it’s a roll of the dice

----------


## Astralabius

> So he can win. Hopefully no arse pulls or Connor Jobbing. It has to be believable. Fans are already betting on Connor and getting their pitchforks ready


I can't remember a fight between Damian and any other character getting teased in solicitations/cliffhangers without someone crying on social media about how Damian could never beat that person as if Damian hasn't dedicated his entire life to training and becoming the best fighter.
Let them cry if Damian wins.

----------


## Restingvoice

> On if the contestants in then tournament best bronze tiger before coming here, they were defeated by flatline who was beat by Damian so either he has a chance or skill means nothing and its a roll of the dice


Wait, EVERYONE beat Bronze Tiger before coming? Well, then everyone's skill's out of whack because Bronze Tiger can beat Batman. Nite-Wing is a chump, how did he get in? The ones I can see have a chance to beat Bronze Tiger are King Snake, Lady Vic, Raptor, with Connor as a sure winner.

----------


## Lal

> Wait, EVERYONE beat Bronze Tiger before coming? Well, then everyone's skill's out of whack because Bronze Tiger can beat Batman. Nite-Wing is a chump, how did he get in? The ones I can see have a chance to beat Bronze Tiger are King Snake, Lady Vic, Raptor, with Connor as a sure winner.


The first issue kind of answered this question and explained that the elite fighters were either bribed to stay out of the fight or that the participants against them cheated in order to win.
None of the real top-tier fighters of the DCU actually compete in this tournament, except for Connor.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

> The first issue kind of answered this question and explained that the elite fighters were either bribed to stay out of the fight or that the participants against them cheated in order to win.
> None of the real top-tier fighters of the DCU actually compete in this tournament, except for Connor.


Wait, wait, wait. Conner Kent is in the tournament?!

----------


## KrustyKid

> Wait, wait, wait. Conner Kent is in the tournament?!


Connor Hawke

----------


## Rac7d*

> The first issue kind of answered this question and explained that the elite fighters were either bribed to stay out of the fight or that the participants against them cheated in order to win.
> None of the real top-tier fighters of the DCU actually compete in this tournament, except for Connor.


Lady shiva bribed
Richard Dragon cheated
Bronze tiger defeated.  And the one who defeated him lost to flatline

----------


## garazza

https://twitter.com/VikBogdanovic/st...583361/photo/1




> Robin. Fearless warrior. This is a tactical retreat.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Let me ask a quick question, did Jason and Damian lived together in LoA? Is there any comic where this is real? (Not counting YJ)

----------


## marvelprince

> I would agree if this was mid 20's Connor who was pals with Kyle. This guy isn't that Conner and we don't really know what else about his past has been changed along with his age.
> 
> Also Bats and Robins are known to prep and cheat to win. Damian is cunning, resourceful and does his prep.
> 
> He took down Cyborg, hawkgirl, bested Lex and took down Gotham Girl. All more powerful than Connor by researching and prepping ahead off time. 
> 
> So he can win. Hopefully no arse pulls or Connor Jobbing. It has to be believable. Fans are already betting on Connor and getting their pitchforks ready


Everything supposedly happened, and Williamson has said in interviews and in the book that this is classic Connor. He even referenced his time as GA so we know that was a thing. Im not expecting him to win as its Damians book but long as he doesnt job out Ill be fine.

----------


## Rac7d*

You know what Damian been fighting deathstroke on repeat of the last few years so I’m gonna be on his side and say he wins. I hope everyone gets mad and cries becuase yes it will
Mean Damian enters DCs right hand of fighters

----------


## Eckri

> You know what Damian been fighting deathstroke on repeat of the last few years so I’m gonna be on his side and say he wins. I hope everyone gets mad and cries becuase yes it will
> Mean Damian enters DCs right hand of fighters


Damian's greatest triumph against Deathstroke is still paying him off to go away. 
Funniest thing I've read.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Damian's greatest triumph against Deathstroke is still paying him off to go away. 
> Funniest thing I've read.


Dick has done the same thing lol
But go reread that fight it’s one of Damian best
They have had 7 interactions of the last 10 years more then Slade and dick that decade.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Let me ask a quick question, did Jason and Damian lived together in LoA? Is there any comic where this is real? (Not counting YJ)


I actually asked this a while back myself (maybe in the Jason Todd thread), but surprisingly, no. That's one thing that was never touched upon. Young Justice is the first official series to actually touch on it, otherwise you have to look to fanfics about it.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I actually asked this a while back myself (maybe in the Jason Todd thread), but surprisingly, no. That's one thing that was never touched upon. Young Justice is the first official series to actually touch on it, otherwise you have to look to fanfics about it.


Thanks!
Hummmmm considering time does this make sense? I am a little lost of how much time ago Jason died, was resurrected, stayed in LoA and came back for Gotham.

----------


## Arsenal

It seems highly likely that Jason and Damian were under the league's care at the same time at one point. Whether they knew of each other in some form or another is anybody's guess.

----------


## Rac7d*

> It seems highly likely that Jason and Damian were under the league's care at the same time at one point. Whether they knew of each other in some form or another is anybody's guess.


To think that talia was breast feeding both of them……..

----------


## Blue22

by Kharpa on devianart

----------


## Fergus

> To think that talia was breast feeding both of themÂÂ..


The slut shame!


Talia doesn't Breast Feed. Not Damian, Jason or Bruce. Bruce doesn't  even get to touch them or view them fully exposed outside of Son of the Demon cos he put a Ring on it making that Bruce worthy.

Bruce keeps the cowl on and Talia has a wardrobe change because both are so overly dramatic.


On a serious note though...



Some Dc writers need to understand that there is a line. having a female character do the rounds in one household is disgusting.

Talia, Selina and Babs have gotten physical with Bruce and one of his sons. that's just gross.

----------


## Fergus

> by Kharpa on devianart


Love that their pets have the same energy as the boys.

Kryto looks very excitable   while Titus looks serious and unimpressed.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> It seems highly likely that Jason and Damian were under the league's care at the same time at one point. Whether they knew of each other in some form or another is anybody's guess.


I can't take this out of my head now, I do enjoy fanfics where they had a pass in LoA... More Damian and Jason moments in comic are very wellcome, not just fights and hurtfull words...

*And I love super heroes interacting with babies or small kids, I always thinks cute and funny how lost their face looks, I read any fic with #Baby!DamianWayne, just for read Bruce learning how change a diaper or don't knowing how to hold a baby's head.

----------


## Rac7d*

> The slut shame!
> 
> 
> Talia doesn't Breast Feed. Not Damian, Jason or Bruce. Bruce doesn't  even get to touch them or view them fully exposed outside of Son of the Demon cos he put a Ring on it making that Bruce worthy.
> 
> Bruce keeps the cowl on and Talia has a wardrobe change because both are so overly dramatic.
> 
> 
> On a serious note though...
> ...


oh no their should be shame, since jason was a minor and this second time Talia was made a rapist

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> The slut shame!
> 
> 
> Talia doesn't Breast Feed. Not Damian, Jason or Bruce. Bruce doesn't  even get to touch them or view them fully exposed outside of Son of the Demon cos he put a Ring on it making that Bruce worthy.
> 
> Bruce keeps the cowl on and Talia has a wardrobe change because both are so overly dramatic.
> 
> 
> On a serious note though...
> ...


I think characters sometimes just don't take all the clothes because it's not +16, but we can implied it's hapenned.

Agree with writers being urrrg about females characters having sexy with parents and his sons, uuuurghhh! Stop it D: The readers are the worst for saying how they are bitchs because women are bitchs and broke hearts, like Bruce is a victim for sleep with Barbs, no, the writers had this ideas. </3

----------


## Blue22

> oh no their should be shame, since jason was a minor and this second time Talia was made a rapist


I poke fun at it from time to time but I'd reeeeeeeally like to think Talia sleeping with Jason isn't still canon. I just...can't wrap my head around the thought process behind that.

----------


## Astralabius

> I poke fun at it from time to time but I'd reeeeeeeally like to think Talia sleeping with Jason isn't still canon. I just...can't wrap my head around the thought process behind that.


Pretty sure it's not canon anymore since New 52 retconned Lost Days. If I'm not mistaken Talia sent Jason to the All-Caste shortly after bringing him back to life in current canon.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

Yeah, everyone likes to joke about Damian being Jason's kid but it's impossible. He's Slade Wilson's son.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Yeah, everyone likes to joke about Damian being Jason's kid but it's impossible. He's Slade Wilson's son.


As if he doesn't have enough issues with father figures already (and he still doesn't know it was Willis that co-opted Wing-Man).

----------


## Restingvoice

> I poke fun at it from time to time but I'd reeeeeeeally like to think Talia sleeping with Jason isn't still canon. I just...can't wrap my head around the thought process behind that.


Winnick on Twitter when asked by a fan, I don't have the link, said it's because both of them were messed up people in a bad place. Talia just lost his father because Bruce didn't save him, and Jason found out that Batman picked up a new Robin after never avenging him. So as revenge for Bruce, in a moment of instinct, they slept with each other.

----------


## Fergus

> Yeah, everyone likes to joke about Damian being Jason's kid but it's impossible. He's Slade Wilson's son.


Slade and WW's kid to be exact. Alt-Stroke calling Damian and his WTF face was a great why to cap off the whole Deathstroke really loves Damian Wayne narrative that Priest talked about in interviews and on his blog.

I really enjoyed Priest's run and the relationship he explored with Slade and Damian. The duo bounce off each other very well and was hopeful we'd get another writer carry on what Priest started.

But...

of course Damian goes on to beat Slade up the next time they meet up because angsty teen. 
In the same issue Damian beats up his other daddy. Bruce making me realise that 
Damian has now assaulted 3 of his dads.

Dick Grayson watch out  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Fergus

> I poke fun at it from time to time but I'd reeeeeeeally like to think Talia sleeping with Jason isn't still canon. I just...can't wrap my head around the thought process behind that.


You know how when you go out to eat. Everyone orders and when the food comes some people want to try some of what you've ordered because it looks appealing?  

Talia, Selina. Bruce, Jason, Babs and Tim are plate pickers/will share food  :Cool:

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Pretty sure it's not canon anymore since New 52 retconned Lost Days. If I'm not mistaken Talia sent Jason to the All-Caste shortly after bringing him back to life in current canon.


D: but I like the idea of Jason and Damian and Talia spending some time together in LoA, can't they keep they together a little without the sex part? :<

----------


## Rebeca Armus

Sorry, double post ><

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> You know how when you go out to eat. Everyone orders and when the food comes some people want to try some of what you've ordered because it looks appealing?  
> 
> Talia, Selina. Bruce, Jason, Babs and Tim are plate pickers/will share food

----------


## adrikito

> Some Dc writers need to understand that there is a line. having a female character do the rounds in one household is disgusting.
> 
> Talia, Selina and Babs have gotten physical with Bruce and one of his sons. that's just gross.


I will NEVER Understand that DC allowed something between Bruce and Barbara happen. *There are other ways to make Bruce look bad*

Here I only see one adult man taking advantage of a younger girl when he should had avoided it and the was pregnant thing before return with Dick Grayson was EVEN WORST.


*ABOUT ROBIN 8*(Did not readed it yet)*. I saw this opinion in twitter:*

The Robin ongoing series by @Williamson_Josh has been a PHENOMENAL insight to who Damian. Especially in this issue, we see what Damian has always been searching for within himself. Plus art by @GlebMelnikov8 has been OUT OF THIS WORLD!! 
10 out of 10

----------


## HsssH

> Some Dc writers need to understand that there is a line. having a female character do the rounds in one household is disgusting.
> 
> Talia, Selina and Babs have gotten physical with Bruce and one of his sons. that's just gross.


I can kinda give a pass to Talia and Selina, but Babs situation is really disgusting considering that she is supposed to be part of the same family (batfamily) and is (usually) much younger than Selina or Talia. Someone probably could make a case that she is being abused.

----------


## Blue22

Oh my God, Robin #8 was good. This whole series has been SO fucking good.

*spoilers:*
So, anyone who was worried about Damian somehow managing to shounen-hero his way out of a defeat against Hawke can rest easy. He lost....and man it is always painful watching him die. But the fight itself was amazing, as was Damian's heartbreaking monologue right before Hawke took him out. Man that was heavy. Fuck Bruce for still not telling this kid that Alfred's death wasn't his fault.

So now the tournament's over and the real fun begins. Everyone VS Mother Soul's demon, I'm guessing. And of course, Damian may have avoided one shounen hero trope but he fell right into the other one: The hero randomly taking their shirt off before or during a big battle XD

*end of spoilers*

----------


## adrikito

About Robin 8

*spoilers:*

The Issue is basically their battle but it was good

I knew it Listening old fans about it I saw that Connor would win But it was less painful than the expected. He resurrected like Seconds later.

As I said both would die and it happened Connor died because the Lazarus Devil appeared while Damian was resurrecting

It seems that Connor master and mother soul work together

Playtime is OVER Now we have our real enemies in front

*end of spoilers*




> *spoilers:*
> 
> And of course, Damian may have avoided one shounen hero trope but he fell right into the other one: The hero randomly taking their shirt off before or during a big battle XD
> *end of spoilers*


I wonder if I should consider this
*spoilers:*

FANSERVICE
Is what Damijons were crying that ROBINS gym covers did not had(a Shirtless Damian) calling DC coward

*end of spoilers*

Smart move for Williamson part?

----------


## Astralabius

> Oh my God, Robin #8 was good. This whole series has been SO fucking good.
> 
> *spoilers:*
> So, anyone who was worried about Damian somehow managing to shounen-hero his way out of a defeat against Hawke can rest easy. He lost....and man it is always painful watching him die. But the fight itself was amazing, as was Damian's heartbreaking monologue right before Hawke took him out. Man that was heavy. Fuck Bruce for still not telling this kid that Alfred's death wasn't his fault.
> 
> So now the tournament's over and the real fun begins. Everyone VS Mother Soul's demon, I'm guessing. And of course, Damian may have avoided one shounen hero trope but he fell right into the other one: The hero randomly taking their shirt off before or during a big battle XD
> 
> *end of spoilers*


Yeah, sorry, but if that happened I'm glad I dropped this book months ago. Nothing I heard has made me change my mind.

----------


## Blue22

> About Robin 8
> 
> *spoilers:*
> 
> The Issue is basically their battle but it was good
> 
> I knew it Listening old fans about it I saw that Connor would win But it was less painful than the expected. He resurrected like Seconds later.
> 
> As I said both would die and it happened Connor died because the Lazarus Devil appeared while Damian was resurrecting
> ...


I *highly* doubt Williamson/Gleb was trying sexualize Damian or cater to any shippers who want creepy pics of him. Pretty sure the intent wasn't fanservice. It's just an EXTREMELY common anime/action movie trope. And given my recent discovery about Gleb and how he's a Shaman King fan, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some Tao Ren inspiration there. That dude is like the king of "Oh hey look a fight! Better take off my shirt!"




Ren and Damian are around the same age, and have VERY similar personalities and backstories. So I wouldn't be shocked if there was some correlation XD

----------


## adrikito

> I *highly* doubt Williamson was trying sexualize Damian or cater to any shippers or whatever. Pretty sure the intent wasn't fanservice. It's just an EXTREMELY common anime/action movie trope. And given my recent discovery about Gleb and how he's a Shaman King fan, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some Tao Ren inspiration there. That dude is like the king of "Oh hey look a fight! Better take off my shirt!"


You are right 
Sometimes I forget that this comic is like anime

AHAHAHAA REALLY? Then made Williamson made him look good for FIRST Time *spoilers:*
in a Resurrection
*end of spoilers*


SORRY. Today I remembered Damijons in one conversation that involved me about Flatline in twitter.

One user putting a problems  calling her bad for Damian and miniHarley for then be a SHIPPER. They are annoying. People complains about Damirae? They are worst. Never saw any damirae bothering other ships

----------


## Blue22

> AHAHAHAA REALLY? Then made Williamson made him look good for FIRST Time *spoilers:*
> in a Resurrection
> *end of spoilers*
> 
> 
> SORRY. Today I remembered them in one conversation that involved me about Flatline in twitter putting a problems for then be a SHIPPER calling her bad for Damian and miniHarley. They are annoying and people complains about Damirae. Never saw any of these bothering other ships


There's reeeeeeeally no point in getting hung up on everything that shippers on twitter/tumblr say. Acknowledging them just gives them more to talk about XD

No matter what fandom it is, there's always gonna be shipping wars. If you don't want any part in it, just don't entertain it. It's like dealing with the RWBY fandom. It's best to just leave them to their own devices lol

----------


## adrikito

> There's reeeeeeeally no point in getting hung up on everything that shippers on twitter/tumblr say. Acknowledging them just gives them more to talk about XD
> 
> No matter what fandom it is, there's always gonna be shipping wars. If you don't want any part in it, just don't entertain it. It's like dealing with the RWBY fandom. It's best to just leave them to their own devices lol


But is ANNOYING when one idiot appears without you calling him/her or without mention his/her ship and I saw it before too even posting a thing about Damian and Flatline. 
POSTING THIS do you think that I care about your Damijon? I had to block you shippers to be able to see Damian tag in twitter. 


What happens with RWBY fandom? SHIPS Wars too?

----------


## Blue22

> But is ANNOYING when one idiot appears without you calling him/her or without mention his/her ship and I saw it before too even posting a thing about Damian and Flatline. 
> POSTING THIS do you think that I care about your Damijon? I had to block you shippers to be able to see Damian tag in twitter.


Lol dude it's not that deep. Just take a deep breath and keep blocking/ignoring them if it bothers you like that. Or maybe you're just following the wrong people. I have a lot of Damian related things in my Twitter feed and I VERY rarely come across any overzealous shippers.




> What happens with RWBY fandom?


Everything. It is easily one of the messiest, nastiest, most nonsensical fandoms I've ever come across. And a good chunk of it does come from shipping. Super fucking defensive too. All it takes is one criticism and they'll hound the fuck out of you like you just spit on their mothers or something. Any negative thing said about RWBY is treated like a personal slight against its fans. Especially with the Twitter fans.

That's why I just choose to not interact with the fandom and enjoy the show from a distance...well...enjoy might be the wrong word. RWBY hasn't been very great for the past two seasons. The music still kicks ass though.

Point is, every fandom has its crazies (and in some cases, a good chunk of the fandom is crazy). But they're *mostly* harmless and easy to ignore if you just...stop going to the places where they like to congregate.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

So Damian lost to Connor. Whew. I hate when people lose to Conn(e/o)rs.

----------


## adrikito

> Lol dude it's not that deep. Just take a deep breath and keep blocking/ignoring them if it bothers you like that. Or maybe you're just following the wrong people. I have a lot of Damian related things in my Twitter feed and I VERY rarely come across any overzealous shippers.
> .



probably only UNLUCKY and Damijons like attack other ships when is about shipping. They even say that their ships is CANON to people who does not know about comics according what I heard

I was only be involved 2 times with Flatline ship but I saw them bothering Damirae too(I like their art) despite knowing how much I blocked I would not be surprised that most of them are like that and are more annoying that what I know

BLOCK many did not avoided me watching a Damijon celebrating that Jon was BI with a +18 image with Damian  :Mad:  They could at least avoid Quote Damian tag





> Everything. It is easily one of the messiest, nastiest, most nonsensical fandoms I've ever come across. And a good chunk of it does come from shipping. Super fucking defensive too. All it takes is one criticism and they'll hound the fuck out of you like you just spit on their mothers or something. Any negative thing said about RWBY is treated like a personal slight against its fans. Especially with the Twitter fans.
> 
> That's why I just choose to not interact with the fandom and enjoy the show from a distance...well...enjoy might be the wrong word. RWBY hasn't been very great for the past two seasons. The music still kicks ass though.
> 
> Point is, every fandom has its crazies (and in some cases, a good chunk of the fandom is crazy). But they're *mostly* harmless and easy to ignore if you just...stop going to the places where they like to congregate.


I like Ruby Rose design and the other girls are fine too but never saw it enough interesting to start the serie

WOW and I heard that Naruto and DBLL fans are terrible saying that their characters are able to DEFEAT EVERYTHING and having discussions with others for stupid things

I saw even worst. Naruto fans like NTR girls from another series even when Naruto for example is married. They take their SERIE Supremacy too seriously

----------


## Morgoth

Well, Connor expectedly won, so at least some sensitive people won't have mental breakdown.
It was a good and emotional fight. This book is really good so far.

----------


## adrikito

Not sure why add spoilers whe others do not make it  :Big Grin:

----------


## HsssH

Well that was some anime fight with special effects and all that.

----------


## Drako

> Well that was some anime fight with special effects and all that.


Yeah, but it actually gave me Haikyuu vibes with all those animals symbolism.

----------


## Blue22

Yeah the spirit animal thing is another pretty common anime trope. I am loving all the potential references that I caught in this one issue, alone.

----------


## Superboy-Prime

I should've known Connor would win when Damian's spirit animal was a robin instead of a demon!

----------


## Blue22

Damian was never going to win this. But he didn't really need to. I don't think that's what the point of this whole arc is.

----------


## marvelprince

> Well, Connor expectedly won, so at least some sensitive people won't have mental breakdown.
> It was a good and emotional fight. This book is really good so far.


Whew. My mental health remains intact and all is right with the world. 

Seriously though, sensational issue. Had the action I wanted, Connor didn’t get jobbed by Damian but it’s not over yet. Love the final reveal. Not very surprising if you’ve been following, and yes the whole arc does feel very anime but in the good way. Just great stuff. I hope this world of young fighters doesn’t disappear when this arc is over.

----------


## marvelprince

> The slut shame!
> 
> 
> Talia doesn't Breast Feed. Not Damian, Jason or Bruce. Bruce doesn't  even get to touch them or view them fully exposed outside of Son of the Demon cos he put a Ring on it making that Bruce worthy.
> 
> Bruce keeps the cowl on and Talia has a wardrobe change because both are so overly dramatic.
> 
> 
> On a serious note though...
> ...


Yeah they really need to stop the revolving relationships with the female characters. Its lazy and just kind of gross. I think Babs has been paired with most of the men in the Bat-fam at this point. Enough already. The Talia and Jason thing too, why not have them just bond over their shared tragedies. Their relationship was richer and more complex before Winnick put them in bed together. Fortunately I think Lobdell got rid of most of that.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Yeah, but it actually gave me Haikyuu vibes with all those animals symbolism.


Did you not prep you anime background music?



But this issue made me a little sad,


I think back to every issue of his titans run of his teammates calling Damian a monster a tyrant  or that they hated him.
To this day I still have no love for Roundhouse, OR Wallace kidflash,  Jason blaming Damian at the wake didnt help either.
I get he can be abrasive and loud but he is still a kid and the things thease older people are saying to him are gonna effect him. He is just good at suppressing emotions.

----------


## Blue22

Yeah I'm honestly hoping a lot of the vilification of this kid ends here. Both Titans teams were a horrible time for him (though I think the first team COULD have worked under a better writer). King's Batman run was a horrible time for him (but...again, it could have worked. We just needed ONE person to tell him it wasn't his fault). Let's finally bury some of his unnecessary angst already. Just because he's Batman's son, it doesn't mean he has to be trapped in the same perpetual loop of depression that his old man is caught in.

Which is why I am SO incredibly happy Didio left before he could act out his grand plan for him. We didn't need to kill this character even more just so Jon can have his own "Magneto"




> To this day I still have no love for Roundhouse, OR Wallace kidflash, Jason blaming Damian at the wake didnt help either.


It would take A LOT to make me dislike Jason after Rebirth Outlaws. But Wallace and Roundhouse? Fuck 'em. I've hated Wallace since Percy's Titans run. Talks all that shit but got the nerve to be boring. Who the fuck wants a boring Flash? He'll, unfortunately, continue to be around as long as there's Flash family stuff, but I'm hoping Roundhouse disappears once TTA ends. Just like 90% of every Titan who isn't a legacy character. He might as well, given the (thankfully) small role that he has in it.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Yeah I'm honestly hoping a lot of the vilification of this kid ends here. Both Titans teams were a horrible time for him (though I think the first team COULD have worked under a better writer). King's Batman run was a horrible time for him (but...again, it could have worked. We just needed ONE person to tell him it wasn't his fault). Let's finally burry some of his unnecessary angst already. Just because he's Batman's son, it doesn't mean he has to be trapped in the same perpetual loop of depression that his old man is caught in.
> 
> Which is why I am SO incredibly happy Didio left before he could act out his grand plan for him. We didn't need to kill this character even more just so Jon can have his own "Magneto"
> 
> 
> 
> It would take A LOT to make me dislike Jason after Rebirth Outlaws. But Wallace and Roundhouse? Fuck 'em. I've hated Wallace since Percy's Titans run. Talks all that shit but got the nerve to be boring. Who the fuck wants a boring Flash? He'll, unfortunately, continue to be around as long as there's Flash family stuff, but I'm hoping Roundhouse disappears once TTA ends. Just like 90% of every Titan who isn't a legacy character. He might as well, given the (thankfully) small role that he has in it.


I dont hate jason but I see why he was not invited to this


if there was ever a day Damian neded Dick this was it

----------


## garazza

*spoilers:*
The saga of Damian and Flatline's "Will They Or Won't They?" continues, except it's the marketing and covers and solicitations that say they will and the actual content of the book that says they won't. The cover suggests Flatline is the one that wants to intervene on Damian and Connor's fight, except in the book it's Rose while Flatline actually hangs back and doesn't express any strong emotions. I like that it's Rose who wants to intervene. I love Damian's growing collection of older sisters who watch out for their little shit of a brother. Of course, Williamson could be doing a Jon Kent and Saturn Girl where they spend the front half of the book having no strong feelings towards one another and all of a sudden we're just flat-out told they love each other despite having not seen that indicated anywhere in the text.

I'm not sure what people have against animal imagery, but it's kind of hard to argue against the most literal imagery possible: a robin for Damian and a hawk for Connor.

This fight is very anime- and manga-inspired, but I know Williamson and Gleb are also wrestling fans so that whole opening sequence screamed to me to be like the opening sequence of a wrestling match where neither wrestler can gain the upper hand and they go hold for hold, counter for counter until the exchange finally ends in a stalemate and the crowd applauds.

I liked how drawn out the fight was. This was what I was expecting this entire arc to be, but this feels a lot better. It feels earned.

Gleb posted black and white WIP art of this fight and I think I liked it better when it wasn't colored. Now that we have context for that panel of Damian all beaten and bloody, I felt the way I do when I'm reading One Piece and a fight is hitting its emotional crescendo. This book is a goddamn manga. Most people are going to just look at the result of the fight, but you can look good even in defeat. Even Rock Lee lost to Gaara. And yes, I'm saying Damian vs. Connor is the same as Rock Lee vs. Gaara. 

I'm not sure why Damian felt the need to take off his shirt, it was a bad ass moment nonetheless. It's also a very anime thing to do, too, but it also reminds me of when wrestlers would pull the down the straps of their costume if they needed to dig deep to pull off a move and put away their opponent.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## garazza

> I *highly* doubt Williamson/Gleb was trying sexualize Damian or cater to any shippers who want creepy pics of him. Pretty sure the intent wasn't fanservice. It's just an EXTREMELY common anime/action movie trope. And given my recent discovery about Gleb and how he's a Shaman King fan, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some Tao Ren inspiration there. That dude is like the king of "Oh hey look a fight! Better take off my shirt!"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ren and Damian are around the same age, and have VERY similar personalities and backstories. So I wouldn't be shocked if there was some correlation XD


I was rereading Shaman King last night and I never realized how similar Damian and Ren and here you are making the exact same comparisons!

----------


## Blue22

> *spoilers:*
> It's also a very anime thing to do, too
> *end of spoilers*


Lol That right there is all the reason you need. Damian was just channeling his inner Tao Ren, Gray Fullbuster, and Alex Armstrong XD




> I was rereading Shaman King last night and I never realized how similar Damian and Ren and here you are making the exact same comparisons!


Yeah Damian and Ren are practically the same person. Right down to how they've developed. I just finished re-reading the entire manga and the whole time I was just like "...This is anime Damian Wayne"

----------


## garazza

> Yeah I'm honestly hoping a lot of the vilification of this kid ends here. Both Titans teams were a horrible time for him (though I think the first team COULD have worked under a better writer). King's Batman run was a horrible time for him (but...again, it could have worked. We just needed ONE person to tell him it wasn't his fault). Let's finally burry some of his unnecessary angst already. Just because he's Batman's son, it doesn't mean he has to be trapped in the same perpetual loop of depression that his old man is caught in.
> 
> Which is why I am SO incredibly happy Didio left before he could act out his grand plan for him. We didn't need to kill this character even more just so Jon can have his own "Magneto"
> 
> 
> 
> It would take A LOT to make me dislike Jason after Rebirth Outlaws. But Wallace and Roundhouse? Fuck 'em. I've hated Wallace since Percy's Titans run. Talks all that shit but got the nerve to be boring. Who the fuck wants a boring Flash? He'll, unfortunately, continue to be around as long as there's Flash family stuff, but I'm hoping Roundhouse disappears once TTA ends. Just like 90% of every Titan who isn't a legacy character. He might as well, given the (thankfully) small role that he has in it.


My favorite thing about this book is that it's not dragging Damian through all these negative experiences. These were all things that were done to him previously by bad writers and bad editorial. Instead, this book is doing what none of those writers and editors ever intended on doing, and that is using those past negative experiences as obstacles to overcome on his path of personal growth instead of justifications for unnatural character development. This book is doing what far too many writers are incapable of and this is building their characters back up after they had broken them down, except Williamson wasn't the one who broke Damian down, DC editorial was and they never intended for Williamson writing Robin to be the end result of their efforts. In fact, it's the exact opposite of what they intended to do.

----------


## Eckri

Enjoyed the issue.

Damian being treated as a Shonen MC but reads Shoujo, wouldn't mind if they started treating him as an anime MC. 

Though, I'm more curious on how will he use Nightwing's Baton.

----------


## Frontier

> I *highly* doubt Williamson/Gleb was trying sexualize Damian or cater to any shippers who want creepy pics of him. Pretty sure the intent wasn't fanservice. It's just an EXTREMELY common anime/action movie trope. And given my recent discovery about Gleb and how he's a Shaman King fan, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some Tao Ren inspiration there. That dude is like the king of "Oh hey look a fight! Better take off my shirt!"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ren and Damian are around the same age, and have VERY similar personalities and backstories. So I wouldn't be shocked if there was some correlation XD


So who is his Tao Jun equivalent?

----------


## Fergus

I thought Damian would win and think he should have won.
There's a tendency to downplay Damian's ability, skills and history by both fans, mostly by fans who call him OP. 

Robins are no slouch and Damian is the most skilled Robin.
However I also like Connor and the character needs something that establishes to readers who started post flashpoint that he also is no slouch.

Damian doesn't really need the Best fighter award since he isn't and that is the real point of the story.

The action was top notch and the issue was packed with emotion. I hope this series doesn't get cut short like RSOB and I hope this team stays together. I like their dynamic.

This was a 9 out of 10 for me.

----------


## Fergus

> Yeah they really need to stop the revolving relationships with the female characters. Its lazy and just kind of gross. I think Babs has been paired with most of the men in the Bat-fam at this point. Enough already. The Talia and Jason thing too, why not have them just bond over their shared tragedies. Their relationship was richer and more complex before Winnick put them in bed together. Fortunately I think Lobdell got rid of most of that.


Yep.

Babs at this point is missing only Damian and Alfred. It's disgusting, disrespectful and boring.

Like you said it about very shallow. Talia and Jason relationship would be richer and fertile ground for future exploration without having the addition of that awkward mine field. 

It didn't add anything, didn't lead to anything and other writers have seemingly made a point if avoiding it.

----------


## Blue22

> So who is his Tao Jun equivalent?


Hmmmm...good question....I guess if you wanted to stretch, his Tao Jun could have been that cousin he met in Percy's Titans. But who knows when she'll ever be seen again? Or if she'll ever be seen again.

Rose mght be a good Jun equivalent too. But she's a lot more useful in a fight than Jun, who...doesn't have the best track record lol

----------


## Eckri

> Yep.
> 
> Babs at this point is missing only Damian and Alfred. It's disgusting, disrespectful and boring.
> 
> Like you said it about very shallow. Talia and Jason relationship would be richer and fertile ground for future exploration without having the addition of that awkward mine field. 
> 
> It didn't add anything, didn't lead to anything and other writers have seemingly made a point if avoiding it.



You can rest assured that Babs won't be the cycled to Damian, cause very little interaction. However, Steph on the other hand....yeah, shippers will always find a way. Least it isn't Babs, dunno if it's worst though.

No one is ever going touch that Jason and Talia comic ever again, and I think writers wouldn't want Jason and Talia in the same room in the comics because of that.
Gets real awkward, like that Nightwing and Catwoman one. Could have Talia and Jason angry at Bruce, like the Death in the Family DVD choose your own adventure movie.





> Hmmmm...good question....I guess if you wanted to stretch, his Tao Jun could have been that cousin he met in Percy's Titans. But who knows when she'll ever be seen again? Or if she'll ever be seen again.
> 
> Rose mght be a good Jun equivalent too. But she's a lot more useful in a fight than Jun, who...doesn't have the best track record lol


Other than that in comparison to anime and manga.

Seen some other people also say that and compare, more so joking, that since Damian reads Shoujo, a joke is that he'll sorta be like Tuxedo Mask.

I mean, already got a "Rose" and insults people, all he needs is to motivate like Dick Grayson. 

This was fun, this issue was really fun, I'm just waiting for the tournament arc to be over, wanting to see Globe trotting Robin adventures.

----------


## Rac7d*

> I thought Damian would win and think he should have won.
> There's a tendency to downplay Damian's ability, skills and history by both fans, mostly by fans who call him OP. 
> 
> Robins are no slouch and Damian is the most skilled Robin.
> However I also like Connor and the character needs something that establishes to readers who started post flashpoint that he also is no slouch.
> 
> Damian doesn't really need the Best fighter award since he isn't and that is the real point of the story.
> 
> The action was top notch and the issue was packed with emotion. I hope this series doesn't get cut short like RSOB and I hope this team stays together. I like their dynamic.
> ...


Damian has certainly grown as a fighter. He came in second to Connor Hawke, that now bad either.

              Damian also still a small child, just wait till his growth spurt. This wasnt a loss, since this tournament was not about victory but self discovery and
                                                stopping the the league of shadows and lazarus. 
                            DC's Fist
                          Karate Kid
                             Cass
                              Shiva
                       Richard Dragon
                       Bronze Tiger

                        Bruce Wayne
                        Dinah Lance
                      Connor Hawke
                       Dick Grayson
                       David Cain (being nice)

----------


## Blue22

> Seen some other people also say that and compare, more so joking, that since Damian reads Shoujo, a joke is that he'll sorta be like Tuxedo Mask.


Oh God no. Whether it's the 90s show or Sailor Moon Crystal, nobody should aspire to be as bland and useless as Tuxedo Mask. Comparing Damian to him is an insult lol

----------


## adrikito

> But this issue made me a little sad,
> 
> 
> I think back to every issue of his titans run of his teammates calling Damian a monster a tyrant  or that they hated him.
> To this day I still have no love for Roundhouse, OR Wallace kidflash,  Jason blaming Damian at the wake didnt help either.
> I get he can be abrasive and loud but he is still a kid and the things thease older people are saying to him are gonna effect him. He is just good at suppressing emotions.


For those who think that Damian Pre-Batman life was easy. *Taking ABUSE his WHOLE LIFE.* 

Alfred.. He can´t forget his failure and sadly he knows that these Lazarus Pits are not the answer for you.

After what showed Roundhouse I am UNABLE to feel sympathy for him and then Crush took Everything from Damian and despite that allowed Roundhouse to continue in the team even if she IN THEORY loved Djinn.

Because I did not saw the Remaining TT volume but I would had liked Crush suffering the other members blaming her for the remaining problems of the team as lesson of humilty.


*It was FUNNY see Respawn applauding them.* He could had followed the HATER path asking to Connor to kill Damian.

----------


## HsssH

> It would take A LOT to make me dislike Jason after Rebirth Outlaws. But Wallace and *Roundhouse*? Fuck 'em. I've hated Wallace since Percy's Titans run. Talks all that shit but got the nerve to be boring. Who the fuck wants a boring Flash? He'll, unfortunately, continue to be around as long as there's Flash family stuff, but I'm hoping Roundhouse disappears once TTA ends. Just like 90% of every Titan who isn't a legacy character. He might as well, given the (thankfully) small role that he has in it.


What he is even doing now? I dropped Teen Titans when he went from good guy to traitor to misunderstood good guy in like 2 issues.




> *It was FUNNY see Respawn applauding them.* He could had followed the HATER path asking to Connor to kill Damian.


I didn't like that clapping scene at all, felt very forced to me.


Anyone else finds it weird that Raptor appears very often, but isn't really doing anything and has no plot significance (anyone else could have fought Hawke)?

----------


## Fergus

*I've been taking Abuse my whole life. Why stop now?* 

Those lines were difficult to read. It's not news to me, we all know Damian's back story but to read him admit it and know that this is how he thinks is heart breaking.

----------


## Fergus

> What he is even doing now? I dropped Teen Titans when he went from good guy to traitor to misunderstood good guy in like 2 issues.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that clapping scene at all, felt very forced to me.
> 
> 
> Anyone else finds it weird that Raptor appears very often, but isn't really doing anything and has no plot significance (anyone else could have fought Hawke)?


the clapping was cliché.

Maybe Williamson wants to keep Raptor present in the readers mind for a later role not necessarily for this title.

----------


## Rac7d*

> What he is even doing now? I dropped Teen Titans when he went from good guy to traitor to misunderstood good guy in like 2 issues.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that clapping scene at all, felt very forced to me.
> 
> Laugh a little man
> 
> Anyone else finds it weird that Raptor appears very often, but isn't really doing anything and has no plot significance (anyone else could have fought Hawke)?


of all the contestants he the only one aside from the core 4 to get his own variant, yes he is hanging around alot and seems to have a grudge on Damián, but he was never the antagonist or even an obstacle in this arc. He is at the moment an original persona created by Williams who is also writing deathsroke and soon to be batman, We will see him again, this was his introduction.

No one else could fight Hawke this has been set up since issue 2

----------


## Light of Justice

> *I've been taking Abuse my whole life. Why stop now?* 
> 
> Those lines were difficult to read. It's not news to me, we all know Damian's back story but to read him admit it and know that this is how he thinks is heart breaking.


For me I am more disturbed with the line "with my first death *here*, I knew this was the place for me"
Because of course, he doesn't mind dying on the island, his first death there is not his actual first death. In fact, it's like his 4th death in the span of 14 years of his life. He has a knack for resurrection thanks to his genes (both of them) but still, it's so jarring to read a teen boy to be that unconcerned about his own life.

----------


## Blue22

Jarring doesn't even begin to describe how horrific Damian's life has been. You gotta go through some serious shit to be the kind of boy that he's grown into. And for him to still wanna be a hero after all that, it's fucking commendable. And just one more reason why I'm happy Didio left when he did. This path of acknowledgment and self improvement is exactly what Damian needs.

----------


## Fergus

> of all the contestants he the only one aside from the core 4 to get his own variant, yes he is hanging around alot and seems to have a grudge on Damián, but he was never the antagonist or even an obstacle in this arc. He is at the moment an original persona created by Williams who is also writing deathsroke and soon to be batman, We will see him again, this was his introduction.
> 
> No one else could fight Hawke this has been set up since issue 2


Raptor was created by Seeley but i do agree that we woll see him again.

he is a Dick Grayson Foe and was also a foe in Rebirth Deathstroke. Nightwing is getting a lot of focus as is Deathstroke so I'm sure there's a reason why they have kept Raptor visible.

----------


## skyvolt2000

Damian appears with his Dad on gift wrap this year. He's in I guess the uniform from the last Titans run.

So far this is the only DC gift wrap I have seen in stores.

----------


## Fergus

> Damian appears with his Dad on gift wrap this year. He's in I guess the uniform from the last Titans run.
> 
> So far this is the only DC gift wrap I have seen in stores.


people in north America are very lucky. You guy's get so much merch/themed items.

----------


## Eckri

So, yo boy appeared as well in the latest DC vs. Vampires issue. 

Any thoughts?

----------


## Rac7d*

DB735052-8A53-4335-8D4E-B2A60E9C08E2.jpg

Hm

----------


## Light of Justice

> So, yo boy appeared as well in the latest DC vs. Vampires issue. 
> 
> Any thoughts?


Damian played the joke role in that issue, but not really offensive jokes, so I guess it's fine. Still, I don't wanna assume much since the writer is Tynion





> DB735052-8A53-4335-8D4E-B2A60E9C08E2.jpg
> 
> Hm


Where does it come from?

----------


## Frontier

Preview for the first annual.

----------


## adrikito

> Preview for the first annual.


Thanks

So only those* Chosen to be Sacrified for the demon* with that Mark can be in this island.. 

Mother Soul you are as Great Family as the rest of Al Ghul for Damian.


I like his memories images about the events that we saw in previous issues.  :Cool: 

A tracker.. You are surprised? But is good that you can access to the batfliles too


WOW. So that is Flatline without her GOTHIC APPEARANCE. She is from RUSSIA? Unless that Villain approached here she probably had problems to visit Gotham or visited EEUU or even illegaly


*FLASHBACK FLATLINE DRAWINGS CAN BE A REFERENCE TO THIS ARC??*

Bat = Damian
Coffin&RIP = Reference Both character dead?
Skeleton = Lazarus Island
Devil mark? = Lazarus devil  
scythe? = people dying killed by others?

----------


## adrikito

People. This is Flatline True Appearance:

Attachment 115797

----------


## Blue22

Another mini-Damian sighting in Young Justice

----------


## Eckri

> Another mini-Damian sighting in Young Justice


Uh, Damian's a lot younger here compared to Jon. 

A Reversal then. 

You know with how different Ra's and his League here, I'm thinking that Damian won't be Robin but more like the predecessor of Damian in Kingdom Come. Won't be the baddest change, if I say.

----------


## Rac7d*

> People. This is Flatline True Appearance:
> 
> Attachment 115797


thats not what she looked like in her last flashback tho hmmm

----------


## Rac7d*

> Uh, Damian's a lot younger here compared to Jon. 
> 
> A Reversal then. 
> 
> You know with how different Ra's and his League here, I'm thinking that Damian won't be Robin but more like the predecessor of Damian in Kingdom Come. Won't be the baddest change, if I say.


they are a year apart here

----------


## adrikito

> thats not what she looked like in her last flashback tho hmmm


Probably Williamson did not had in mind her appearance&origin in that moment

If her past is tragic we could think that she created herself like a MASK and prefers think in herself like Flatline all her life.

----------


## dietrich

Just caught up on Robin and Robins 2.

Williamson continues to deliver. That title is off the hook [do people still say that?] I teared up.

I love that book so much. Not bothered about Damian losing and someone give Rose, Damian, connor and Flatline a title plz.

Robins was disappointing in places and okay in places. Didn't like Damian's Gauntlet.
Bruce didn't make Damian Robin, Dick did so not sure what Seeley was playing at. I'm sure he didn't forget.

The choice to use Damian pushing Tim off the Dino as his gauntlet while ignoring his actual canon gauntlet which was Saving Tim's life in BFTC is odd since showing both would have highlighted the growth and difference between when Damian 1st arrived and when he became Robin.

Damian tried to kill Tim when he arrived and risked his life to save Tim just before he was made Robin. That mission and that growth is what showed that Damian had promise and was right for the mantle.

That was a disappointing omission. Seeley instead went with the incorrect fanon that Damian was underserving of the mantle and simply got it because he demanded it. I expected better.

----------


## dietrich

> Another mini-Damian sighting in Young Justice


And Jay's in the back. I love that Talia is always cuddling Damian like he's so precious. She's always holding him. Keeping him close.

----------


## dietrich

> Preview for the first annual.


Cool can't wait to find out more about Flatline and mother Soul

----------


## dietrich

> So, yo boy appeared as well in the latest DC vs. Vampires issue. 
> 
> Any thoughts?


Damian doesn't drink cocoa and isn't that jokey. I didn't mind it so much but Tynion writes a better Damian than this so not sure why he went with basic.

----------


## CPSparkles

I'm happy Damian fought till the end. Glad he didn't kill Hawke so for me it's a positive that he lost.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Just caught up on Robin and Robins 2.
> 
> Williamson continues to deliver. That title is off the hook [do people still say that?] I teared up.
> 
> I love that book so much. Not bothered about Damian losing and someone give Rose, Damian, connor and Flatline a title plz.
> 
> Robins was disappointing in places and okay in places. Didn't like Damian's Gauntlet.
> Bruce didn't make Damian Robin, Dick did so not sure what Seeley was playing at. I'm sure he didn't forget.
> 
> ...


Funny fans always bring up that Damian tried to kill Tim but no one ever talks about the fact that Damian saved tim's life and then like a week later Tim attacked him for daring to call him by his father's name.

declaring himself a Wayne.

----------


## Morgoth

Robin #8 is in Top-10 bestsellers on Comixology, surprassing ASM and 'Tec.

----------


## Fergus

> Robin #8 is in Top-10 bestsellers on Comixology, surprassing ASM and 'Tec.


I think more people are waking up to this title. Williamson is doing good work that deserves to be recognised.

DC in general has been doing good work. It's not perfect but it's much better than it was just after Rebirth.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Funny fans always bring up that Damian tried to kill Tim but no one ever talks about the fact that Damian saved tim's life and then like a week later Tim attacked him for daring to call him by his father's name.
> 
> declaring himself a Wayne.


Just can’t get over how a 10 year old wupped him. Jason did worse to Tim then Damian ever did and no one hold it against him

----------


## adrikito

*THIS SOUNDS INTERESTING*(I did not added everything)

https://www.cbr.com/robin-worst-enem...y-mother-soul/

Damian Wayne has stumbled upon his connection to the mysterious Mother Soul: She's his great-grandmother. The leader of the League of Lazarus is in fact the mother of Ra's al Ghul.

*This fact not only makes Mother Soul one of Robin's most personal enemies* to date, but perhaps the most dangerous of them all. The young Boy Wonder has complicated relationships with each member of his family, but *Mother Soul appears to be the root cause of her family's dysfunction and could be the final crucible Damian must overcome to finally decide which of his family legacies he will ultimately follow.
*

She seems to possess secrets neither of the younger al Ghuls are willing to use, suggesting that she is more twisted than either one of them.

If this is indeed the case, it would make her the root of evil within Damian's maternal lineage. She might very well be the original embodiment of the ideals that have governed the al Ghul family for generations.

Mother Soul might be the epitome of everything he hates about himself, but she might also be the only one who genuinely understands the demons he constantly wrestles against.


*Mother Soul appeared in the BEST POSSIBLE moment in this Complicated moment in Damian Life* 
Williamson made a Great Choice creating all this

----------


## garazza

https://twitter.com/VikBogdanovic/st...354114/photo/1

----------


## Fergus

> https://twitter.com/VikBogdanovic/st...354114/photo/1


Is Damian holding a space pistol?

----------


## Rac7d*

> Is Damian holding a space pistol?


A hyperdermic needle

----------


## CPSparkles

> Robin #8 is in Top-10 bestsellers on Comixology, surprassing ASM and 'Tec.


That's good news.

----------


## CPSparkles

> https://twitter.com/VikBogdanovic/st...354114/photo/1


So most of Superman/Robin will be set off planet?

----------


## CPSparkles

@Dietrich Cool new avatar. Aomine Daiki is my favourite GOM.

----------


## Rac7d*

> And Jay's in the back. I love that Talia is always cuddling Damian like he's so precious. She's always holding him. Keeping him close.


Let’s hope her intentions are pure, this was being made back far enough to be influenced by that magneto crap

----------


## Eckri

You know something I just thought of, concerning the Batfamily.

Has Damian ever interacted with the infamous/famous Batmite?

Pretty sure Dick, Bette, Tim, and Bruce has the blessing/curse of meeting the BatFamily's number one fan, but has Damian?

----------


## adrikito

> You know something I just thought of, concerning the Batfamily.
> 
> Has Damian ever interacted with the infamous/famous Batmite?
> 
> Pretty sure Dick, Bette, Tim, and Bruce has the blessing/curse of meeting the BatFamily's number one fan, but has Damian?


I remember this one

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Bat-Mite_Vol_1_3

----------


## garazza

> So most of Superman/Robin will be set off planet?


From what I can gather, it's actually most likely set on Dinosaur Island.

----------


## Frontier

> Uh, Damian's a lot younger here compared to Jon. 
> 
> A Reversal then. 
> 
> You know with how different Ra's and his League here, I'm thinking that Damian won't be Robin but more like the predecessor of Damian in Kingdom Come. Won't be the baddest change, if I say.


I think Talia taking Damian away from the "self-help" group is indicating she's not happy about it and will probably raise Damian more traditionally to set him up to be like he normally is.

----------


## Rac7d*

> I think Talia taking Damian away from the "self-help" group is indicating she's not happy about it and will probably raise Damian more traditionally to set him up to be like he normally is.


I hope he still is trained by sensei

----------


## Frontier

> I hope he still is trained by sensei


Well, it seems like all the best martial artists were trained by him, so maybe  :Stick Out Tongue: .

----------


## HsssH

> That was a disappointing omission. Seeley instead went with the incorrect fanon that Damian was underserving of the mantle and simply got it because he demanded it. I expected better.


I often feel like relationships between different Robins (and Batgirls) have been completely destroyed by fanon. With Dick and Damian being only exception so far.

----------


## dietrich

> I often feel like relationships between different Robins (and Batgirls) have been completely destroyed by fanon. With Dick and Damian being only exception so far.


True. Though the fanon tendency to turn Dick in a hug monster who just awws in response to everything Damian related is starting to grate.

The complexity in their different dynamics has been erased in favour of saccharine and one note characterisations.

----------


## Blue22

> someone give Rose, Damian, connor and Flatline a title plz.


Man, I would buy the absolute hell out of that. Damian needs a good team after the last two he tried to form. Just keep Williamson at the helm.




> Robins was disappointing in places and okay in places. Didn't like Damian's Gauntlet.
> Bruce didn't make Damian Robin, Dick did so not sure what Seeley was playing at. I'm sure he didn't forget.
> 
> The choice to use Damian pushing Tim off the Dino as his gauntlet while ignoring his actual canon gauntlet which was Saving Tim's life in BFTC is odd since showing both would have highlighted the growth and difference between when Damian 1st arrived and when he became Robin.
> 
> Damian tried to kill Tim when he arrived and risked his life to save Tim just before he was made Robin. That mission and that growth is what showed that Damian had promise and was right for the mantle.
> 
> That was a disappointing omission. Seeley instead went with the incorrect fanon that Damian was underserving of the mantle and simply got it because he demanded it. I expected better.


^This^

I still think Steph got it the worst, but Robins #2 was not a very good showing for Damian or Jason either. Really, I'm kinda starting to regret how much I wanted this title to win. As much as I love whenever all the Robins are together (especially if Bruce isn't around) this book is just...not very good so far.

----------


## dietrich

> Man, I would buy the absolute hell out of that. Damian needs a good team after the last two he tried to form. Just keep Williamson at the helm.
> 
> 
> 
> ^This^
> 
> I still think Steph got it the worst, but Robins #2 was not a very good showing for Damian or Jason either. Really, I'm kinda starting to regret how much I wanted this title to win. As much as I love whenever all the Robins are together (especially if Bruce isn't around) this book is just...not very good so far.


They got us with the old monkey's paw  :Frown:

----------


## HsssH

Yeah, I'm pretty much waiting for Robins to finish and see the reviews before going back into it. Seeley's "return" has been more miss than a hit for me.

----------


## dietrich

> Yeah, I'm pretty much waiting for Robins to finish and see the reviews before going back into it. Seeley's "return" has been more miss than a hit for me.


I thought he did a good job with nightwing Rebirth and Injustice v Masters of the universe but it feels like he's phoning Robins in.

----------


## Fergus

Tim do you mean to throw or be hit with? Yes.






Tim do you mean to throw or be hit with? Yes.

https://doc-anders.tumblr.com

----------


## garazza

A sneak peak of Cruz's pencils in tomorrow's annual.

https://twitter.com/rogercruzbr/stat...491588/photo/1

----------


## garazza



----------


## adrikito

Thanks 

I see So they were posted yesterday. I saw it weird because I started following Roger Cruz some time ago

----------


## Eckri

So just read the Robin Annual

*spoilers:*
Basically it's just the origin stories of the opponents, Ravager's one is basically Respawn stole Grant's stuff. Flatine's origin is basically take the memory of the dead, which is interesting. Just wanted to talk about the Epilogue, Batman - Deathstroke - Robin crossover. So it's Batman against Deathstroke/Talia against Robin/Ravager. And also, considering Damian only now knows about the tracking device, I'm pretty sure Bruce knows. Anyway, enjoyable, hope to see the next issue.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## adrikito

Robin annual was interesting

*spoilers:*
Flatline is in part like Rose and inherit her grandfather(who was KGB experiment) skill making her the 2nd confirmed killer in her family
Saving her family from her grandfather old contacts and they left her?? They prefered by killed? 
I was not expecting that her awaken skills will change her like that
lol That Lord Death man allowed her to train even with him as the victim for then use her fow what he wanted and sell her as the Lazarus League Champion

NOT SURPRISED that Black Swan(she looks superbeautiful) has BAD Tempter but I would had liked more content

NO DATA from Respawn but Rose visits one old Slade hideout and someone stole one of GRANT costumes
So the League of Shadows probably only trained Connor during some months??
ALFRED looked ANGRY this time when he made impossible be tracked

What a form to say HI to your father. You do not care about any of your subbordinates life Talia. As if 2 random assasins can kill him

*end of spoilers*


Damn. Not only Ra´s will come in Damian help?? I was fine only with him

----------


## Jackalope89

Well, seeing Flatline's background was pretty interesting. And got more of the "What are Rose and Jason up to?" running gag. 

Overall, pretty much a case file issue. But still pretty good.

----------


## adrikito

YEAH

The preview confused me

I though that her family made her visit the psychologist initially

----------


## Fergus

> 


Great art.

The annual was good. Not great. Good.

----------


## K. Jones

I thought as just a place to put a couple of shorty bios this was a fine addition to the ongoing storyline. The art was quite nice. Back in the day those profile pages would've just warranted an extra page at the end of each of the first handful of issues, but slap a little narrative glue between them and it's, well, less an Annual and more a Secret Files & Origins one-shot, but a perfectly alright "place" to put some of this info. And I never hate when a run, if it's good enough to collect later, has bonus stuff like Secret Files and such.

Respawn getting a "too be continued" is fine and completely expected - as we know Williamson is building to a storyline that features the just broader DCU Martial Arts areas, with the Assassins, various Leagues, Leviathan, and is doing Deathstroke and Black Canary, this was what I expected. I will say I didn't necessarily think "Grant" connection. I did when I first saw the character, but he's far too young (and puny) to be the first Ravager. And I liked that the "Respawn" secret file is just a Ravager side-quest but maintains her connection with Jason because I've been shipping Jason & Rose for a hot minute.

Flatline is the most interesting but that's partially because I'm a Lord Death Man junkie and she has a great costume and the power-set makes good sense for why she'd pair up with him. It appears their entire training/relationship basically just took place sometime very shortly after the last time we saw Lord Death Man ... which I think was ... Talon? Or Batman Eternal. It's been a while.

I like that for Hawke's Williamson's just like "oh yeah I mean ... he got Doctor Manhattaned, simple as that".

----------


## dietrich

> I thought as just a place to put a couple of shorty bios this was a fine addition to the ongoing storyline. The art was quite nice. Back in the day those profile pages would've just warranted an extra page at the end of each of the first handful of issues, but slap a little narrative glue between them and it's, well, less an Annual and more a Secret Files & Origins one-shot, but a perfectly alright "place" to put some of this info. And I never hate when a run, if it's good enough to collect later, has bonus stuff like Secret Files and such.
> 
> Respawn getting a "too be continued" is fine and completely expected - as we know Williamson is building to a storyline that features the just broader DCU Martial Arts areas, with the Assassins, various Leagues, Leviathan, and is doing Deathstroke and Black Canary, this was what I expected. I will say I didn't necessarily think "Grant" connection. I did when I first saw the character, but he's far too young (and puny) to be the first Ravager. And I liked that the "Respawn" secret file is just a Ravager side-quest but maintains her connection with Jason because I've been shipping Jason & Rose for a hot minute.
> 
> Flatline is the most interesting but that's partially because I'm a Lord Death Man junkie and she has a great costume and the power-set makes good sense for why she'd pair up with him. It appears their entire training/relationship basically just took place sometime very shortly after the last time we saw Lord Death Man ... which I think was ... Talon? Or Batman Eternal. It's been a while.
> 
> I like that for Hawke's Williamson's just like "oh yeah I mean ... he got Doctor Manhattaned, simple as that".


Pretty Much all this.

I enjoyed the issue and the set up for deathstroke, LOA/batman clash was well done. I'd forgotten that was coming up

----------


## Rac7d*

Lucifer would be a great villain for Damian

----------


## dietrich

> Lucifer would be a great villain for Damian


As in Morning Star? The Dc character?

----------


## Light of Justice

The "Immortal ABS" is a clickbait  :Mad:  Well, great to know that Al Ghul family still threw mooks to be uselessly killed as their ritual of greeting each other

----------


## Rac7d*

> As in Morning Star? The Dc character?


yes

there are many dc characters who have cheated death nut none has dipped thier hand into the pool more then the al ghouls.

----------


## Jackalope89

> yes
> 
> there are many dc characters who have cheated death nut none has dipped thier hand into the pool more then the al ghouls.


So, having probably the 2nd most powerful character in all of DC as their "antagonist" is the idea? Er, how about slicing that down several notches to Darkseid or Trigon? That's a more fair match.

----------


## garazza

Gleb back at it.

https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...669632/photo/1

----------


## Rac7d*

> So, having probably the 2nd most powerful character in all of DC as their "antagonist" is the idea? Er, how about slicing that down several notches to Darkseid or Trigon? That's a more fair match.


both are overused and tired.

When damian died the first time, he went to hell, thats why he went on his journey in Robin son of batman to redeem himself. Despite continuing to do good things, I bet it still bothers him. I know it does, him wanting to find out if he is the monster that people keep telling him he is in this tournament assured me of that. I think Lucifer could be an interesting antagonist to mess with damian.

----------


## Zaresh

> both are overused and tired.
> 
> When damian died the first time, he went to hell, thats why he went on his journey in Robin son of batman to redeem himself. Despite continuing to do good things, I bet it still bothers him. I know it does, him wanting to find out if he is the monster that people keep telling him he is in this tournament assured me of that. I think Lucifer could be an interesting antagonist to mess with damian.


I don't know if Lucifer qualifies as a villain in the DCU.
The First of the Fallen, sure, but Lucifer, he's... Well, he's flawed and egotistical and a lot of very not positive things. But not really much of a villain.
I mean, unless it has changed since before Flashpoint, he was in that kinda place characters like Spectre are. Or like one of the Endless. He's not a hero by any means, but he's not a straight villain. And I think they only turned him more anti-heroic with every new book.

The Devil and Lucifer are traditionally different characters in the Vertigoverse, and I think it's something that's still true, now that Vertigo is really inside the DCU.
Also, yes, The First of the Fallen is more like the Devil in the sense that he's the one who rules Hell, as far as I recall. And it's not as powerful as Lucifer is, too. Lucifer is... is really very, very, very powerful. He can shape universes.

----------


## Eckri

> both are overused and tired.
> 
> When damian died the first time, he went to hell, thats why he went on his journey in Robin son of batman to redeem himself. Despite continuing to do good things, I bet it still bothers him. I know it does, him wanting to find out if he is the monster that people keep telling him he is in this tournament assured me of that. I think Lucifer could be an interesting antagonist to mess with damian.


Went to hell? When was that?

In terms of Damian having his antagonist as Lucifer...yeah I can't see it.
Having the Phantom Stranger against Lucifer is a better match-up.

Heck a Phantom Stranger and Damian team up would work better, it's just that Lucifer is just on another tier. 

His traditional enemies should always, in my thoughts, should either be the League of Assassins' and its co-groups, not Lucifer.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Went to hell? When was that?
> 
> In terms of Damian having his antagonist as Lucifer...yeah I can't see it.
> Having the Phantom Stranger against Lucifer is a better match-up.
> 
> Heck a Phantom Stranger and Damian team up would work better, it's just that Lucifer is just on another tier. 
> 
> His traditional enemies should always, in my thoughts, should either be the League of Assassins' and its co-groups, not Lucifer.


Yeah. Lucifer is one of those multiversal beings that probably wasn't even bothered by the last few multiversal crises. And Damian going to, and leaving, Hell? Lucifer wouldn't care.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Yeah. Lucifer is one of those multiversal beings that probably wasn't even bothered by the last few multiversal crises. And Damian going to, and leaving, Hell? Lucifer wouldn't care.


How does Damian in his 666 future get his immortality?

----------


## Eckri

> How does Damian in his 666 future get his immortality?


Okay, I'll be honest Batman 666 is cool and all, it was implied he made a deal with the devil.
And Death Metal opens the multiverse up, but I'll be honest I don't want Damian to end up as Batman 666.

Two versions mate and different circumstances that lead to Damian being Batman 666

----------


## Jackalope89

> How does Damian in his 666 future get his immortality?


There are lesser beings that can do that. Its just that Lucifer, along with his brother Michael Demiurgos, are basically #2 out of all DC creation. With the Presence being #2. Plus, Lucifer spent a good while trying to break his own destiny. 

Literally just about any other being in the expanded DC omniverse is on a lower tier. Barring maybe Death of the Endless herself, with the other Endless only slightly lower.

So Damian could make a deal with a run of the mill devil and get immortality (though I imagine Constantine would oppose that). It would take Damian confronting Lucifer, personally, and doing something to really piss him off without being wiped out on the spot. The al'Ghuls simply are not a factor to Lucifer.

----------


## Light of Justice

> Went to hell? When was that?.


Robin Son of Batman earlier issue iirc


Also mentioned briefly in Teen Titans (in fact he became their tour guide in Hell)

----------


## Zaresh

> There are lesser beings that can do that. Its just that Lucifer, along with his brother Michael Demiurgos, are basically #2 out of all DC creation. With the Presence being #2. Plus, Lucifer spent a good while trying to break his own destiny. 
> 
> Literally just about any other being in the expanded DC omniverse is on a lower tier. Barring maybe Death of the Endless herself, with the other Endless only slightly lower.
> 
> So Damian could make a deal with a run of the mill devil and get immortality (though I imagine Constantine would oppose that). It would take Damian confronting Lucifer, personally, and doing something to really piss him off without being wiped out on the spot. The al'Ghuls simply are not a factor to Lucifer.


Well, the Devil and Lucifer are two different guys in the DC universe, traditionally. You can play Damian with a Hell theme without mixing Lucifer in. I mean, look at Constantine, or Raven, or Jason Blood. Plenty of them dealing with demons and devil beings. Just use the Devil, not old blondy Lucy.

Besides, Lucifer isn't exactly evil. He's more like... a chaotic neutral jerk. He only cares about himself, those few he think dear to him, and his own things. And free will. He's the angel who deals with that stuff, after all.

----------


## adrikito

> Gleb back at it.
> 
> https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...669632/photo/1


Apparently for only 1 issue. Robin 11

Or I understood that in a previous tweet

Maybe Roger Cruz is not available that month.




> The "Immortal ABS" is a clickbait  Well, great to know that Al Ghul family still threw mooks to be uselessly killed as their ritual of greeting each other


Or maybe Talia&Mother soul had been sending assassins against Ra´s during some time(making him train with them) and this was Talia last attempt.

----------


## dietrich

> How does Damian in his 666 future get his immortality?


That was implied to be via Hush [the anti christ] but you do make a good point.

His ancestors on both sides made a deal with the devil. Ra's and Thomas [Simon Hurt, Black glove]. In Batman RIP and Batman and Robin we saw that his Wayne ancestors were devil worshippers [Barbatos]

We also saw this Way ties to 'the Devil' in The Dark Nights Metal tie that featured Damian and Barbatos.
I can see Barbatos coming for Damian just like the anti Christ came for him.

A lot of Damian stories has featured him going up against 'the devil', having connections to the devil and the devil having beef with him.

According to King's Batman Damian already owes the Devil for giving him the power to defeat Gotham Girl.

The devil ALREADY is his personal antagonist. In comics and in movies.

I'm not sure Lucifer can be connected to Damian or has reason to be concerned with him but other devils can and are.

----------


## Eckri

In my opinion, if Damian were to make a deal with the devil.
Basing on that alternate universe where Damian is a girl, I want Damian to make a deal with Klarion.

----------


## dietrich

> Okay, I'll be honest Batman 666 is cool and all, it was implied he made a deal with the devil.
> And Death Metal opens the multiverse up, but I'll be honest I don't want Damian to end up as Batman 666.
> 
> Two versions mate and different circumstances that lead to Damian being Batman 666


I like Batman 666. Ideally I want Damian to end up being a vet who lives happily ever after but batman 666 is future I also like.

----------


## dietrich

> In my opinion, if Damian were to make a deal with the devil.
> Basing on that alternate universe where Damian is a girl, I want Damian to make a deal with Klarion.


Klarion is just a witch boy not the devil. In our current universe Damian got the spell with which he made the deal with the devil [Rebirth batman] from Klarion

----------


## dietrich

> Gleb back at it.
> 
> https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...669632/photo/1


Sweet. why did he leave? Too much work?

----------


## HsssH

In which TT issues they were in hell?




> Flatline is the most interesting but that's partially because I'm a Lord Death Man junkie and she has a great costume and the power-set makes good sense for why she'd pair up with him. It appears their entire training/relationship basically just took place sometime very shortly after the last time we saw Lord Death Man ... which I think was ... Talon? Or Batman Eternal. It's been a while.


He was last seen in Eternal, but that was pretty much just a recap of what happened in Talon. There he was imprisoned by Darrk/Ra's so he had to escape (or maybe they came to some sort of an agreement) at some point. How much time has passed since Eternal?

Anyway, the annual. It really encapsulates perfectly my problems with Williamson's run (and his work in general). It is clear that he loves these characters and knows continuity rather well. Probably an argument could be made that as far as continuity usage goes he is the best writer currently working at DC. But problem is that he is not very good at writing and getting to places he wants to go with these characters. 

Now, what was one of the places he wanted to get here? That Damian is not going to "cheat" to win this tournament. It is cool statement that makes Damian look cool, but it doesn't really make sense. What kind of information exactly he could find on Hawke or Ravager that could help him beat them? How does knowing Flatline's background helps him? It doesn't matter.

And it would be fine if that was it. But no, to get to this place Williamson has to introduce a stupid plot point - that you can reverse the feed of Batman's tracking device and get access to the Bat computer. How stupid is Bruce? Well he is stupid and brilliant at the same time since it appears that he is tracking everyone everywhere all the time. Take Flatline's story for example, we could assume that Bruce is spying on Death-man and thats how he heard Flatline's story. Makes sense, right? But her story ends with her on the island just before she killed Damian. So, does Batman also have spy cameras on the island and is aware of everything that is going on? Probably not, but thats the impression you might get by reading this annual. Or how Batman conveniently saw Ravager fighting in Grant's old hideout, but didn't see that, most likely, Respawn raided it few hours earlier.

Overall I think that annual would have been much stronger story if it didn't include Damian's framing sequence. And its really frustrating to me that due to such storytelling decisions this run, at least for me, never crosses "almost great" line.

----------


## dietrich

> So, having probably the 2nd most powerful character in all of DC as their "antagonist" is the idea? Er, how about slicing that down several notches to Darkseid or Trigon? That's a more fair match.


Yeah i don't like the idea of having such a powerful being as Damian's antagonist. That's not even a fight.

Trigon and Darkseid are also not fair matches for Robin. I guess they could toy with him to get at his family and loved ones [wayne, al ghul and Raven] unless we are talking batman 666 Damian. He is also immortal so could have them as foes but not Robin. They would crush him

----------


## garazza

> Apparently for only 1 issue. Robin 11
> 
> Or I understood that in a previous tweet
> 
> Maybe Roger Cruz is not available that month.





> Sweet. why did he leave? Too much work?


It takes time to draw? Fill-in artists are brought in all the time to do a few issues so the main artists can work ahead on later issues. Did people genuinely think Jorge Jimenez was no longer drawing Batman because Guillem March did a few issues?

----------


## dietrich

> It takes time to draw? Fill-in artists are brought in all the time to do a few issues so the main artists can work ahead on later issues. *Did people genuinely think Jorge Jimenez was no longer drawing Batman because Guillem March did a few issues?*


Some did yes

----------


## garazza

> Some did yes


Yeesh. They must also think their parents disappear when they play peek-a-boo.

----------


## adrikito

> It takes time to draw? Fill-in artists are brought in all the time to do a few issues so the main artists can work ahead on later issues. Did people genuinely think Jorge Jimenez was no longer drawing Batman because Guillem March did a few issues?


I remember watching one GLEB post that one fan wanted to know if he was returning and Gleb said that it was for ROBIN 11.

Sadly I do not remember the tweet

Anyway. Robin 12 solicitation this Month will confirm us if is the case.

----------


## garazza

> I remember watching one GLEB post that one fan wanted to know if he was returning and Gleb said that it was for ROBIN 11.
> 
> Sadly I do not remember the tweet
> 
> Anyway. Robin 12 solicitation this Month will confirm us if is the case.


I know the exact tweet you're talking about. I spent some time searching for it: https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...82606304649223

To me, nothing about his response suggests his return is just a one-off.

----------


## Fergus

Simon hurt another villain who attempted to get to a Wayne by Shooting Dick Grayson in the head. This times Damian Wayne.

Fascinating character. I bet that's where Bruce and Damian's acting skills originate from.

----------


## adrikito

> I know the exact tweet you're talking about. I spent some time searching for it: https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...82606304649223
> 
> To me, nothing about his response suggests his return is just a one-off.


Weird.. I remember a fan wanting to know if he returned and Gled saying that it was only for Robin 11.  :Confused: 


Anyway. MARCH solicitations would confirm us if Roger returns or Gleb continues after Robin 11.

----------


## Eckri

> I bet that's where Bruce and Damian's acting skills originate from.


More specifically Damian took theatre/acting class, and his tutor was Carrie Kelly.
Now I'm craving for Damian performing in Theatre.

----------


## Fergus

> In which TT issues they were in hell?


Teen Titans issues 39 -41 by Glass and thompson

Here's a link if you want a synopsis and don't fancy paying for the trash Tt run by Glass

https://roosterteeth.com/watch/compl...die-go-to-hell

----------


## garazza

> Weird.. I remember a fan wanting to know if he returned and Gled saying that it was only for Robin 11. 
> 
> 
> Anyway. MARCH solicitations would confirm us if Roger returns or Gleb continues after Robin 11.


Personally, I'm more curious about where the story goes after the tournament. I suspect it'll somehow tie-in to Williamson's Deathstroke stuff, but I'd rather Damian continue being independent and keep doing his own stuff.

----------


## Fergus

> More specifically Damian took theatre/acting class, and his tutor was Carrie Kelly.
> Now I'm craving for Damian performing in Theatre.


Damian already had the skills and was already taking lesson pre Carrie Kelly, the new 52 and meeting his father.

this is specifically evidenced when he used his voice mimicking skills to trick the bat computer and Alfred in Batman and Son by Morrison.

Damian's acting skill's weren't introduced by Tomasi and Carrie was simply his last known acting tutor/coach. That part of the character was already there pre Flashpoint.

It was referenced many times by many writers pre flash point including Williamson.

----------


## Eckri

> Damian already had the skills and was already taking lesson pre Carrie Kelly, the new 52 and meeting his father.
> 
> this is specifically evidenced when he used his voice mimicking skills to trick the bat computer and Alfred in Batman and Son by Morrison.
> 
> Damian's acting skill's weren't introduced by Tomasi and Carrie was simply his last known acting tutor/coach. That part of the character was already there pre Flashpoint.
> 
> It was referenced many times by many writers pre flash point including Williamson.


Huh, I need a reading list on Pre-New 52 Damian. Like all the issues where he's in, gotta read up on that.

----------


## adrikito

> Personally, I'm more curious about where the story goes after the tournament. I suspect it'll somehow tie-in to Williamson's Deathstroke stuff, but I'd rather Damian continue being independent and keep doing his own stuff.


I am afraid for the SHADOW WAR thing... It will be the Deathstroke crossover? Talia will appear in deathstroke INC too.

*Talia will ruin me ROBIN reuniting him with Batman??  
*
I was fine with have one Crossover with Deathstroke that would be only to confirm that he is Grant. 

ALSO. I was hyped with one GLEB Ra´s image that in the end will be Ra´s vs Talia not Ra´s vs Mother Soul.  :Frown: 





> Looks like in addition to Shadows of the Bat we'll be getting another event next year in Shadow War, it's been teased a few times now and looks like it will feature Talia.
> 
> Robin 2021 Annual:

----------


## HsssH

> Huh, I need a reading list on Pre-New 52 Damian. Like all the issues where he's in, gotta read up on that.


This is a bit difficult since Morrison's run was long and Damian did not become regular till Batman and Robin. But I would recommend reading it in its entirety since Williamson is using lots, and I mean lots, of things from Morrison these days so I wouldn't be surprised if Shadow War ends up being some sort of a sequel to Morrison's Batman Inc.

I think this is Williamson's pre-Flashpoint Damian story: https://www.dccomics.com/comics/supe...ermanbatman-77

----------


## dietrich

> Huh, I need a reading list on Pre-New 52 Damian. Like all the issues where he's in, gotta read up on that.


https://leagueofcomicgeeks.com/profi...-reading-order

This Reading list covering every single Damian appearance in comics up till TT by Glass.

----------


## Jackalope89

> https://leagueofcomicgeeks.com/profi...-reading-order
> 
> This Reading list covering every single Damian appearance in comics up till TT by Glass.


And Battle for the Cowl is there... 
Both Damian and Jason, and even Babs, were poorly shown in that.

----------


## dietrich

> And Battle for the Cowl is there... 
> Both Damian and Jason, and even Babs, were poorly shown in that.


the request was for Damian's earlier comic appearances not the ones that are universally deemed good. 

*poorly shown* is subjective.
I don't mind battle for the cowl. I liked quite a bit of it. 
*Damian saving tim's life for example is an important part of Damian's development.

It's ignored by the Damian hating part of fandom that likes to remind everyone that Damian is an evil killer [they 
use the he tried to kill Tim in batman and Son excuse leaving out the fact that Tim has physically attacked Damian twice]

It is a key detail that a lot of newer Damian fans don't know.*


It's a comprehensive and complete list. 

I don't think it's my place to tell or pick which comics I believe @Eckri should read when they asked for a list not recommendations.

All characters have stories where they are portrayed badly, you take the bad with the good. canon is canon.

----------


## Jackalope89

Except the characters, Jason and Damian sound nothing like they're supposed to. Babs literally got a young girl eaten by Killer Croc.

----------


## dietrich

> Except the characters, Jason and Damian sound nothing like they're supposed to. Babs literally got a young girl eaten by Killer Croc.


So? Canon is canon. You can't just disregard what part of canon you accept simply because your favourites weren't written in a favourable/flattering manner.

Damian's dialogue was off but Damian's characterisation was fine [remember this was the early days of the character]

BFTC Damian is a 1000 times more in character than Glass' Damian. A version you felt was an accurate enough portrayal of Damian that you cited that version just a few pages back on this very thread.

We all have our subjective bias and preferences. That's fine. That's also why an objective list of titles is important so individual fans can check the stories out for themselves and come to their own conclusions.

Reading a story arc where a character we like is OCC is very annoying but isn't that big a deal.

----------


## Jackalope89

> So? Canon is canon. You can't just disregard what part of canon you accept simply because your favourites weren't written in a favourable/flattering manner.
> 
> Damian's dialogue was off but Damian's characterisation was fine [remember this was the early days of the character]
> 
> BFTC Damian is a 1000 times more in character than Glass' Damian. A version you felt was an accurate enough portrayal of Damian that you cited that version just a few pages back on this very thread.
> 
> We all have our subjective bias and preferences. That's fine. That's also why an objective list of titles is important so individual fans can check the stories out for themselves and come to their own conclusions.
> 
> Reading a story arc where a character we like is OCC is very annoying but isn't that big a deal.


??? I haven't cited anything about Glass' Titans run, except in a negative light. 

Anyway, Damian tried to impress a girl, and despite being 10, acted more like a stereotypical teen. Not a kid that was raised by assassins most of his life.

And no, nothing good came out of that story.

----------


## adrikito

> *poorly shown* is subjective.
> I don't mind battle for the cowl. I liked quite a bit of it. 
> *Damian saving tim's life for example is an important part of Damian's development.
> 
> It's ignored by the Damian hating part of fandom that likes to remind everyone that Damian is an evil killer [they 
> use the he tried to kill Tim in batman and Son excuse leaving out the fact that Tim has physically attacked Damian twice]
> 
> It is a key detail that a lot of newer Damian fans don't know.*


HATERS are HATERS

And if you are a Tim(or another character) fan if you think that certain character is *Your Enemy* is hard change your mind.

You only hate that character because you are a Fan who has the idea *the other character existence* is bad for your character. 

Anyway Tim fans should see that Damian left Gotham long time ago to continue hating him for NOTHING and Tim has been showed in many different ways these years to continue cursing Damian.


But is what I feel with Talia. Damian encounters with her are Terrible. 

I will curse her even more if Damian and Bruce reunion to defeat her in Shadow War makes ROBIN comic end  :Mad:  I wanted a crossover with Deathstroke not his possible return to Batman side that can make this comic end.  :Mad:

----------


## Eckri

> ??? I haven't cited anything about Glass' Titans run, except in a negative light. 
> 
> Anyway, Damian tried to impress a girl, and despite being 10, acted more like a stereotypical teen. Not a kid that was raised by assassins most of his life.
> 
> And no, nothing good came out of that story.


Not trying to vouch for Battle for the Cowl, frankly I hold in the same regard as All Star Batman. Funny to read for laughs.

But wasn't Damian...drunk when he was driving the Batmobile? Like, Bruce just died and he was flatout drunk? Dunno, but I got the impression of that.




> But is what I feel with Talia. Damian encounters with her are Terrible. 
> 
> I will curse her even more if Damian and Bruce reunion to defeat her in Shadow War makes ROBIN comic end  I wanted a crossover with Deathstroke not his possible return to Batman side that can make this comic end.


Eh, we'll see after the tournament arc, because who knows what happens after the tournament arc. What's Damian's next goal? Either he goes back to Bruce, dump him in Teen Titans Academy (Gods no, please not this), or he goes globe trotting (This I like)

----------


## adrikito

> Eh, we'll see after the tournament arc, because who knows what happens after the tournament arc. What's Damian's next goal? Either he goes back to Bruce, dump him in Teen Titans Academy (Gods no, please not this), or he goes globe trotting (This I like)


What you said... We will see.

Remembering Damian comic first poster I am a little afraid about this(with Talia involved) becaming in the serie end.. Like if this comic is doomed to finish in this crossover

https://www.latercera.com/resizer/hn...4XKRBAP3DM.jpg

A simple crossover with Deathstroke would be less dangerous... but this? I see it as a bad signal with both Batman and Talia involved.


I think that IN THEORY The Fear state thing with Damian believing that Bruce is dead could make him return to Gotham in Robin 12. But I was expecting this as a simple visit to confirm that Bruce is alive.


*I like Globe Trotting too. For this the comic should continue* and after see her Origins it would be SAD see Flatline becaming in another Maya. Despite in this case I have doubts about Williamson leaving DC.

----------


## Astralabius

> HATERS are HATERS
> 
> And if you are a Tim(or another character) fan if you think that certain character is *Your Enemy* is hard change your mind.
> 
> You only hate that character because you are a Fan who has the idea *the other character existence* is bad for your character. 
> 
> Anyway Tim fans should see that Damian left Gotham long time ago to continue hating him for NOTHING and Tim has been showed in many different ways these years to continue cursing Damian.
> 
> 
> ...


How is it the characters fault if the comic ends? They are fictional, they don't decide anything. If DC (or more likely Williamson) want to end Robin after the tournament arc (to continue the story in another comic) then it's because the plan changed. Williamson didn't know he would be taking over the main Batman comic when he started Robin, but writing the main title changes the way he will be able to tell the story he wants to tell.
If you want to get mad then get mad at Williamson or DC, being mad at the characters is useless, especially at one that is treated as badly by DC as Talia is ever since they decided it was fair to twist her character in the worst possible ways to give Damian angst or to make Bruce/Dick look better by comparison.

----------


## dietrich

> ??? I haven't cited anything about Glass' Titans run, except in a negative light. 
> 
> Anyway, Damian tried to impress a girl, and despite being 10, acted more like a stereotypical teen. Not a kid that was raised by assassins most of his life.
> 
> And no, nothing good came out of that story.


citation

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...n-2021/page233

*He also prepped before hand to take down Jason when he thought Jason had betrayed them, and got the crap beaten out of him for all his effort.*

Damian is a trained assassin whose skill set includes acting and undercover work [he has the skills to act like a regular teen]

Damian just lost his father and had just abandoned his mum and the LOA [he was under enough emotional and mental strain to want to disappear his reality and drown his pain in]

So no that moment isn't necessarily OCC.

You feel nothing good came out of BFTC. That's fair.
I feel differently and that is also fair since it's all subjective.

This is why it's important that individual readers are allowed to decide for themselves.

This spiralled. i wasn't making recommendations for good/great Damian stories. I just linked a source for a full Damian Reading list [from introduction to TT by Glass]

The list hasn't been updated since Thompson took over from Glass so Glass' run is on the list and that is a run I personally wouldn't recommend but it's on the list.

----------


## dietrich

Yeah characters aren't to blame for comics ending unless it's a case of where the character themselves don't have the fanbase to justify the cost of publishing the comic.

I don't think Robin is ending. It is an on-going. There are more adventures and stories to be had.

The main four could carry on going on adventures etc.

Nightwing has RR and Batgirl, batgirls has Spoiler, batgirl and Orphan, Urban legends has multiple heroes etc Single titles that are homes for multiple heroes.

Robin can be a home for these 4

----------


## adrikito

> How is it the characters fault if the comic ends? They are fictional, they don't decide anything. If DC (or more likely Williamson) want to end Robin after the tournament arc (to continue the story in another comic) then it's because the plan changed. Williamson didn't know he would be taking over the main Batman comic when he started Robin, but writing the main title changes the way he will be able to tell the story he wants to tell.
> If you want to get mad then get mad at Williamson or DC, being mad at the characters is useless, especially at one that is treated as badly by DC as Talia is ever since they decided it was fair to twist her character in the worst possible ways to give Damian angst or to make Bruce/Dick look better by comparison.


Ohter PLANS... What made RSOB end.. They could had delayed Rebirth 1 more year.

Yes. If this comic ends I should blame DC Agenda. Is not like I can blame Gleason for RSOB end.



DC should really stop making that in their encounters.. Damian and Ra´s last encounter was good and we talk about the same man who wanted Damian body..

How that can make Dick Grayson look better??  :Confused:

----------


## dietrich

> *??? I haven't cited anything about Glass' Titans run, except in a negative light.* 
> 
> Anyway, Damian tried to impress a girl, and despite being 10, acted more like a stereotypical teen. Not a kid that was raised by assassins most of his life.
> 
> And no, nothing good came out of that story.


Edit

I do note and admit that outside of that single cited comment, all your comment and thoughts on the Glass TT run has been negative with you protesting how widely out of character Damian is shown.

----------


## Blue22

Without giving too much away, anyone who jumped the gun over Talia's depiction in the Wayne Family webcomic can rest easy after today's fast pass chapter. Much like the canon Talia, she's got layers.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Without giving too much away, anyone who jumped the gun over Talia's depiction in the Wayne Family webcomic can rest easy after today's fast pass chapter. Much like the canon Talia, she's got layers.


Sounds like someone paid for the extra issues. The one that just dropped otherwise is Bruce trying to make Cass' recital.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Edit
> 
> I do note and admit that outside of that single cited comment, all your comment and thoughts on the Glass TT run has been negative with you protesting how widely out of character Damian is shown.


Even that comment isn't a positive one, in any way really. As I'm someone that has wanted the Robins to get along, or at least not go after one another. So the Wayne Family Adventures has been a blessing on that front. While the Robins series, while they do work together, isn't quite the quality I was hoping (at least not yet).

----------


## Morgoth

> I will curse her even more if Damian and Bruce reunion to defeat her in Shadow War makes ROBIN comic end  I wanted a crossover with Deathstroke not his possible return to Batman side that can make this comic end.


Relax, they have absolutely no reason to end the book anytime soon. There are lots of ways to continue it after Shadow War ends.

----------


## garazza

Williamson posted some fully colored Roger Cruz from Robin 9.

https://twitter.com/Williamson_Josh/...060480/photo/1





Wonder why we're having a flashback to Year One's "I shall become a bat!" scene. Though Bruce kinda looks like Damian and the bust of Thomas Wayne kinda looks like Alfred.

----------


## Frontier

> Williamson posted some fully colored Roger Cruz from Robin 9.
> 
> https://twitter.com/Williamson_Josh/...060480/photo/1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wonder why we're having a flashback to Year One's "I shall become a bat!" scene. Though Bruce kinda looks like Damian and the bust of Thomas Wayne kinda looks like Alfred.


Maybe Damians' hallucinating himself in that position?

----------


## garazza

> Maybe Damians' hallucinating himself in that position?


Seems a little out of place in the story. Why would he need to reaffirm his connection to the Bat in the middle of a fight against a Lazarus demon-possessed Connor? It would've made much more sense to happen in issue 4 when he was recovering from his injuries...unless that is when the hallucination took place and Damian is simply recalling it in order to make a comeback against Connor.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Williamson posted some fully colored Roger Cruz from Robin 9.
> 
> https://twitter.com/Williamson_Josh/...060480/photo/1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wonder why we're having a flashback to Year One's "I shall become a bat!" scene. Though Bruce kinda looks like Damian and the bust of Thomas Wayne kinda looks like Alfred.


Danm is no one gonna help him
The wiat between issues kills me

----------


## dietrich

> Danm is no one gonna help him
> The wiat between issues kills me


Personally I hope he does this himself and also want him to help Connor.

Those pages are fire by the way.

----------


## dietrich

> Even that comment isn't a positive one, in any way really. As I'm someone that has wanted the Robins to get along, or at least not go after one another. So the Wayne Family Adventures has been a blessing on that front. While the Robins series, while they do work together, isn't quite the quality I was hoping (at least not yet).


fair enough.

----------


## garazza

And now just Cruz's pencils: https://twitter.com/rogercruzbr/stat...805262/photo/1

----------


## garazza

Seriously, the more I see the uncolored work of Melnikov and now Cruz, I think Robin would be so much better  if it was black and white like a manga.

----------


## dietrich

> And now just Cruz's pencils: https://twitter.com/rogercruzbr/stat...805262/photo/1


Beautiful Panels.

----------


## HsssH

> Relax, they have absolutely no reason to end the book anytime soon. There are lots of ways to continue it after Shadow War ends.


And we don't even know what Shadow War is going to be about so I think we are bit early with speculations about what might happen after it ends.




> Seems a little out of place in the story. Why would he need to reaffirm his connection to the Bat in the middle of a fight against a Lazarus demon-possessed Connor? It would've made much more sense to happen in issue 4 when he was recovering from his injuries...unless that is when the hallucination took place and Damian is simply recalling it in order to make a comeback against Connor.


To me thats just another case of "Williamson has to write something stupid/bad/cringe in every issues".

----------


## garazza

> To me thats just another case of "Williamson has to write something stupid/bad/cringe in every issues".


It wouldn't be a modern comic book without some willful incompetence on the part of the writer.

----------


## adrikito

> Williamson posted some fully colored Roger Cruz from Robin 9.
> 
> https://twitter.com/Williamson_Josh/...060480/photo/1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wonder why we're having a flashback to Year One's "I shall become a bat!" scene. Though Bruce kinda looks like Damian and the bust of Thomas Wayne kinda looks like Alfred.


This is awesome

It can NOT be acid what the Lazarus devil used later or Damian body would be badly affected

ALFRED

----------


## Restingvoice

Everyone who said you like it better in black and white, I agree

----------


## Fergus

Just finished the Gotham City Villains Giant.

The Mad Hatter story by Dan Watters had Damian as his antagonist.

----------


## garazza

https://twitter.com/VikBogdanovic/st...816006/photo/1




> Tiny super sons.

----------


## adrikito

> Everyone who said you like it better in black and white, I agree


Watching some people interest in it more of Roger Cruz art(black&white) from the annual

https://twitter.com/rogercruzbr/stat...93383133814787

(Ra´s killing ninjas, 2 Rose images and damian after say I do not need batman help)

----------


## adrikito

... Damn.. The reunion is closely.

https://www.gamesradar.com/why-batma...tent=newsarama




> Williamson points to his current Robin series starring Damian Wayne as employing a similar tactic.
> 
> "I've already done this similarly with Damian, taking him out of Gotham and away from both Batman and the Teen Titans," Williamson says, referring to his current Robin series. "That has allowed me to tell this story with Damian that's not tied to anyone else. Now I'm doing that with Bruce.
> 
> "There's a freedom here and a challenge. It's unfamiliar to you [as a reader] and to them [as a character.]."
> 
> _And yes, for those wondering if/when Bruce and his son Damian will reunite, it is in the cards - not today, but soon.
> _
> "There's a couple of scenes in Robin #11 and #12, with Damian talking to Flatline and Connor Hawke about his dad and what he's going to do when he sees him next. We'll be announcing some of that stuff in about two weeks."

----------


## dietrich

> Just finished the Gotham City Villains Giant.
> 
> The Mad Hatter story by Dan Watters had Damian as his antagonist.


Read it. Watters writes a decent Damian.

Not happy that it picks up/concludes in the Arkham title.

----------


## dietrich

> ... Damn.. The reunion is closely.
> 
> https://www.gamesradar.com/why-batma...tent=newsarama


The run is off to a good start.
I am looking forward to the emotional parts that Williamson said will focus on Damian.

So we are going to be getting an ides of where the Robin title is heading? It looks like the gang are going to be sticking together.

----------


## Blue22

I would absolutely love if Rose, Connor, and Flatline just become series regulars. But I'm also ready for Williamson to make good on what he said about Colin and Maya showing up.

----------


## Eckri

I'd love to see more of Damian's supporting cast expanded and stay, hopefully this cast will stay.

Though I do wish we see the Robin-Kid Flash-Speedy trio with Damian, even as a oneshot, here's one fanart I found of the trio involving Damian.

We have here:
Damian Wayne as Robin the mirror to Dick's Robin
Irey West as Impulse the mirror to Wally's Kid Flash
Lian Harper as Cheshire Cat the mirror to Roy's Speedy

I'd like to dub this the Trio that never was.

Trinity.jpg

----------


## Rac7d*

> I'd love to see more of Damian's supporting cast expanded and stay, hopefully this cast will stay.
> 
> Though I do wish we see the Robin-Kid Flash-Speedy trio with Damian, even as a oneshot, here's one fanart I found of the trio involving Damian.
> 
> We have here:
> Damian Wayne as Robin the mirror to Dick's Robin
> Irey West as Impulse the mirror to Wally's Kid Flash
> Lian Harper as Cheshire Cat the mirror to Roy's Speedy
> 
> ...


wally kids are like 8, they wont be near damian, and DC has to figure what they are doing with Wally 2
Lian needs to reunite with Roy first

----------


## HsssH

I'd love if Damian got at least one normal human being in his supporting cast.

----------


## marhawkman

> I'd love to see more of Damian's supporting cast expanded and stay, hopefully this cast will stay.
> 
> Though I do wish we see the Robin-Kid Flash-Speedy trio with Damian, even as a oneshot, here's one fanart I found of the trio involving Damian.
> 
> We have here:
> Damian Wayne as Robin the mirror to Dick's Robin
> Irey West as Impulse the mirror to Wally's Kid Flash
> Lian Harper as Cheshire Cat the mirror to Roy's Speedy
> 
> ...


Enh... "Cheshire Cat" feels more like a reference to "Cheshire" though.  :Stick Out Tongue:  and that mask.... Although wearing a hoodie definitely feels like a Roy thing.

----------


## Blue22

Damian does not fuck around XD



https://twitter.com/ruby8311141/stat...55681330741248

----------


## dietrich

> Damian does not fuck around XD
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/ruby8311141/stat...55681330741248


Is that a JoJo's reference? Lol!

----------


## dietrich

> I'd love to see more of Damian's supporting cast expanded and stay, hopefully this cast will stay.
> 
> Though I do wish we see the Robin-Kid Flash-Speedy trio with Damian, even as a oneshot, here's one fanart I found of the trio involving Damian.
> 
> We have here:
> Damian Wayne as Robin the mirror to Dick's Robin
> Irey West as Impulse the mirror to Wally's Kid Flash
> Lian Harper as Cheshire Cat the mirror to Roy's Speedy
> 
> ...


Honestly I'd rather writers focus on relationships and friends that have already been set upfor Damian.

the gang from Robin
The Supersons group
The RSOB trio
The Gotham Academy duo and the Streets of Gotham bros

Flesh out those don't set up new ones. Work with the ones he already has.

----------


## KrustyKid

> Honestly I'd rather writers focus on relationships and friends that have already been set upfor Damian.
> 
> the gang from Robin
> The Supersons group
> The RSOB trio
> The Gotham Academy duo and the Streets of Gotham bros
> 
> Flesh out those don't set up new ones. Work with the ones he already has.


And Rose too, love what I'm seeing from their friendship

----------


## dietrich

> And Rose too, love what I'm seeing from their friendship


I hope Williamson keeps Rose as a Regular on Robin along with Conner and Flatline. 

I know the book is called Robin but I don't see why it can't focus on those 4

----------


## KrustyKid

> I hope Williamson keeps Rose as a Regular on Robin along with Conner and Flatline. 
> 
> I know the book is called Robin but I don't see why it can't focus on those 4


Fosho. The dynamics with each character have been really good, each showcasing off a different side of Damian; also bringing natural growth for him overall. Everything feels so natural and not forced. I love it.

----------


## garazza

https://twitter.com/VikBogdanovic/st...09303477116938




> Super Sons Special is a ��. Sending in my last page today. Woot!




EDIT: I usually post these as soon as I see them on Twitter, so I didn't really look too closely at this one.

The more I look at, the more upset and angry I get. It just looks so...wrong. Like they don't even belong together. Both aged up Jon and Damian are very well and accurately rendered by Vik because Vik is probably the most underrated artist in the comic industry, so that's not the issue.

I just look at how happy and young and youthful Damian looks and I get this overwhelming sense of grief that a just as beautifully drawn Jon isn't right there next to him. And that grief turns to anger because I'm told by those working at DC that the character next to Damian is in fact the real Jon, always been, what are you talking about that he was a kid? And I know that's complete and utter bullshit and they know it and they still have the gall to act like I'm the one who's wrong.

Sorry for the rant. I just needed to vent. The point of art is to evoke emotion, right? Well, an emotion was evoked all right.

----------


## garazza

https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...70486556463108

Looks like Lady Shiva may be showing up in Robin in the near future.

----------


## adrikito

> I would absolutely love if Rose, Connor, and Flatline just become series regulars. But I'm also ready for Williamson to make good on what he said about Colin and Maya showing up.


Just expect 1 issue if they appear and nothing changed after he said that




> I'd love to see more of Damian's supporting cast expanded and stay, hopefully this cast will stay.
> I'd like to dub this the Trio that never was.
> 
> Attachment 116055


Probably he is too old to team with them

Even in Robin I see problems to form a team Rose will leave because is focused in Respawn(thing that probably will continue in the crossover) and Connor probably wants to see Oliver again

Only Flatline seems able to continue teaming with him

----------


## Frontier

> Damian does not fuck around XD
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/ruby8311141/stat...55681330741248


JoJo reference for the win, but I'm reminded of that BM/SM issue by Williamson where Supes throws a snowball at Batman.

----------


## adrikito

> https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...70486556463108
> 
> Looks like Lady Shiva may be showing up in Robin in the near future.


Probably in SHADOW ARC because Talia and Ra´s are here

Also she was in the league of SHADOWS

Probably Dusk lose the leadership after be killed by her in that ARC

That makes me think in CONNOR who was with them. He could return to this arc related with them too?

----------


## garazza

https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...18927849177088

Spoilers: Lady Shiva walks by Connor Hawke.

----------


## adrikito

> https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...18927849177088
> 
> Spoilers: Lady Shiva walks by Connor Hawke.


This confirms that without matter if Rose and Connor leave Damian side now they will return soon in the crossover

----------


## Morgoth

They will be there. Deathstroke is part of crossover, so, Rose and Respawn should be there with him. And Connor is with League of Shadows, so, it makes sense to have him there.

----------


## adrikito

> They will be there. Deathstroke is part of crossover, so, Rose and Respawn should be there with him. And Connor is with League of Shadows, so, it makes sense to have him there.


Deathstroke and Robin was initially his Crossover idea(or what he revealed) that would involve Rose and even show Respawn here


Then Batman and Talia were added and now Shiva and Connor too

I was not expecting that the Shiva mention in Robin first episode would make her appear here

----------


## Morgoth

https://twitter.com/Williamson_Josh/...30510382456833

----------


## Blue22

Oh. Neat. Teasing a Bruce/Damian reunion I guess.

----------


## adrikito

It seems that I should not post it anymore

Gleb made 2 SHIVA images(one with Connor) so she will appear soon too


https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...18927849177088

https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...70486556463108

For those who remember it she was the previous LEAGUE OF SHADOWS leader before Dusk appeared here

----------


## adrikito

wow WATCH THIS

ROBIN-12-open-order-variant.jpg

source(with other images) *ROGER CRUZ is confirmed as Robin 12 Artist*  :Big Grin: 




> Robin #12 will arrive in stores on March 22nd. Written by Williamson and illustrated by Roger Cruz, with covers by Viktor Bogdanovic, Francis Manapul (open-order variant), and Crystal Kung (1:25 ratio variant). *The issue finds Damian returning to Gotham following the conclusion of the Lazarus Tournament, only to face off against…Damian Wayne?*


https://www.comicsbeat.com/shadow-wa...c-next-spring/

----------


## Harryrun

So apparently Deathstroke kills someone my guess that one is Ra's. Talia get mad and start a man hunt for him and Bruce and Damian are trying to arrest him. People will have different emotional response for the one who Deathstroke killed which will start shadow war. That what Williamson said in summary

----------


## dietrich

> wow WATCH THIS
> 
> ROBIN-12-open-order-variant.jpg
> 
> source(with other images) *ROGER CRUZ is confirmed as Robin 12 Artist* 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.comicsbeat.com/shadow-wa...c-next-spring/


I'm loving everything about that cover.

----------


## dietrich

> Oh. Neat. Teasing a Bruce/Damian reunion I guess.


Yo! your inbox is full

----------


## dietrich

> So apparently Deathstroke kills someone my guess that one is Ra's. Talia get mad and start a man hunt for him and Bruce and Damian are trying to arrest him. People will have different emotional response for the one who Deathstroke killed which will start shadow war. That what Williamson said in summary


That sounds interesting. I wasn't all that hyped for this cross over but the premise is engaging and now I'm interested.

----------


## Blue22

> Yo! your inbox is full


Lol And that's exactly why I suggested discord. Thanks for the heads up. Made some space.

----------


## adrikito

> So apparently Deathstroke kills someone my guess that one is Ra's. Talia get mad and start a man hunt for him and Bruce and Damian are trying to arrest him. People will have different emotional response for the one who Deathstroke killed which will start shadow war. That what Williamson said in summary


Yeah people in twitter thinks that

I would not be surprised with Slade DYING(According deathstroke inc 1) that he had a meeting with Ra´s to avoid that and he killed Ra´s


Anwyay. WHY TALIA WOULD WANT REVENGE? She tried to kill Ra´s in the annual too

----------


## Blue22

In the Robin Annual? Pretty sure those disposable ninja were just to get his attention (though why she felt the need to waste subordinates like that is anyone's guess). She did say she wanted to talk.

----------


## adrikito

> In the Robin Annual? Pretty sure those disposable ninja were just to get his attention (though why she felt the need to waste subordinates like that is anyone's guess). She did say she wanted to talk.


What a Great way to say HI after mother soul tried to kill her before in the same way

They look more like one family that does not accept weakness and saw Ra´s weak like that


Those who join must be REALLY STUPID(fanatics) to join them and *not show any mercy or friendship with the rest of members* because they could die tomorrow if the boss wants

----------


## Blue22

Yep. Welcome to the Al-Ghul family. This stuff is kinda par for the course.

----------


## adrikito

> Yep. Welcome to the Al-Ghul family. This stuff is kinda par for the course.


Even Damian descendance is doomed for this cursed family way to make things

Unless his mother and the other 2 die and never return

----------


## Rac7d*

> wow WATCH THIS
> 
> ROBIN-12-open-order-variant.jpg
> 
> source(with other images) *ROGER CRUZ is confirmed as Robin 12 Artist* 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.comicsbeat.com/shadow-wa...c-next-spring/


Why is xxl on the cover?

----------


## garazza

My, my, looks like a lot of Damian news dropped while I wasn't looking. Also, Vik posted the Robin 12 cover.

https://twitter.com/VikBogdanovic/st...810258/photo/1

----------


## Blue22

Oh God. Please tell me the Dark Multiverse Damian isn't coming back.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Oh God. Please tell me the Dark Multiverse Damian isn't coming back.


I'm actually hopeful. I want to see more of that Damian. So much I want to know about that character.

----------


## CPSparkles

> wow WATCH THIS
> 
> Attachment 116102
> 
> source(with other images) *ROGER CRUZ is confirmed as Robin 12 Artist* 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.comicsbeat.com/shadow-wa...c-next-spring/


Sounds interesting and the art work is amazing.

I see Damian family tree. mum, Dad, granpa and great granma.

Lol! That smirk on Damian's face.

----------


## adrikito

> My, my, looks like a lot of Damian news dropped while I wasn't looking. Also, Vik posted the Robin 12 cover.
> 
> https://twitter.com/VikBogdanovic/st...810258/photo/1


What if in his return to Gotham he finds someone similar to him and both end fighting and in the end is FLATLINE in disguise?? She should be able to copy his style(after kill him) to make a good Fake Damian. *Also She is in Robin 12 cover alongside other characters(most of them confirmed here)*. All would end in a Joke after a short fight 


Better than another Dark multiverse Damian bothering us 1 ISSUE  :Mad:  This crossover is not about that and Also a good excuse to introduce Flatline in this crossover

----------


## Frontier



----------


## Fergus

> 


Cute.

This Damian is a kid friendly version.

----------


## Fergus

Has this been posted here



https://twitter.com/VikBogdanovic

----------


## Fergus

> wow WATCH THIS
> 
> Attachment 116102


Shadow Wars sounds interesting. So Ra's dies?

----------


## Eckri

So looking at some Shadow War stuff, this cover piece does make me wonder, and ask a question.

First of all, Damian looks sick here. 

Second: Which do you prefer: Hooded Damian or Collared Damian? 

Tbh, Collared Damian is winning me over than his classical hooded outfit.

Robin.jpg

----------


## marhawkman

> So looking at some Shadow War stuff, this cover piece does make me wonder, and ask a question.
> 
> First of all, Damian looks sick here. 
> 
> Second: Which do you prefer: Hooded Damian or Collared Damian? 
> 
> Tbh, Collared Damian is winning me over than his classical hooded outfit.
> 
> Robin.jpg


Damian is slowly Mutating into Nightwing #7.   :Big Grin:   (Dick Grayson was #3, I never read the comic with #1, Kal-El was #2, Cheyenne Freemont was #4, and Lor-Zod was #5, Karen Starr was #6. Yes, there have been more Kryptonians as Nightwing than Humans.  :Stick Out Tongue: )

----------


## Rac7d*

> Damian is slowly Mutating into Nightwing #7.    (Dick Grayson was #3, I never read the comic with #1, Kal-El was #2, Cheyenne Freemont was #4, and Lor-Zod was #5, Karen Starr was #6. Yes, there have been more Kryptonians as Nightwing than Humans. )



Being that Damian was Dick's robin first, I do find him an acceptable replacement as Nightwing. However I dont see it happening

----------


## marhawkman

> Being that Damian was Dick's robin first, I do find him an acceptable replacement as Nightwing. However I dont see it happening


Yeah, I was just joking that his costume resembles Dick's look as Nightwing.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## adrikito

> Shadow Wars sounds interesting. So Ra's dies?


Not confirmed yet

But the people thinks that he will die

Despite is too PREDICTABLE and why damian would care?? Ra´s died and resurrected a LOT of times Damian knows it to worry about him

----------


## adrikito

> So looking at some Shadow War stuff, this cover piece does make me wonder, and ask a question.
> 
> First of all, Damian looks sick here. 
> 
> Second: Which do you prefer: Hooded Damian or Collared Damian? 
> 
> Tbh, Collared Damian is winning me over than his classical hooded outfit.


This one can be Hooded too if he wants

damian wayne Robin2021.jpg

----------


## Morgoth

I'm looking forward for this event, but I really don't want to see Slade near Damian ever again. Thanks to Priest for that, lol.
I don't get this intention to make Slade some sort of nemesis to Damian. Not to mention, that he already has huge history with Dick, but all stories Slade and Damian shared were atrociously bad.

----------


## Rac7d*

> I'm looking forward for this event, but I really don't want to see Slade near Damian ever again. Thanks to Priest for that, lol.
> I don't get this intention to make Slade some sort of nemesis to Damian. Not to mention, that he already has huge history with Dick, but all stories Slade and Damian shared were atrociously bad.


It’s really just the batfamily in general. Deathstroke is the true breakthrough character of TeenTitans franchise. He rarely interacts with them without Damian their.

We need to know who Respawn is

----------


## adrikito

In my case I am fine with SLADE interacting with Damian

I want him in ROBIN(His solo) without Batman bothering him sooo even making him "slade son"(as if he needs more) I would continue following both characters





> Being that Damian was Dick's robin first, I do find him an acceptable replacement as Nightwing. However I dont see it happening


Nightwing is a cool replacement option but sadly I can not see it neither

----------


## HsssH

Things obviously can happen because they have to happen and logic gets thrown out of the window. Williamson certainly has written stuff like that. But lets assume that there is inherent logic to this upcoming story... would anyone care that Deathstroke killed Ra's?

Damian barely knows him and most of their encounters were not pleasant. Talia probably cares a bit, but at the same time she has been trying to upstage him for a while now. Bruce? Sure, they respect each other to an extent, but I doubt that Bruce would really be hurt or annoyed by this. And that ignores the fact that Ra's has been killed few times already and got better. Would any of these three characters really go to war because Ra's got killed? 

To me it looks like either someone else gets killed or there are some additional details for why key characters actually get involved or its just Williamson writing stupid stuff.

----------


## marhawkman

> I'm looking forward for this event, but I really don't want to see Slade near Damian ever again. Thanks to Priest for that, lol.
> I don't get this intention to make Slade some sort of nemesis to Damian. Not to mention, that he already has huge history with Dick, but all stories Slade and Damian shared were atrociously bad.


Another Nightwing thing.  :Stick Out Tongue:  Dick fought Slade a lot both as Robin and Nightwing.

----------


## Drako

> Damian is slowly Mutating into Nightwing #7.    (Dick Grayson was #3, I never read the comic with #1, Kal-El was #2, Cheyenne Freemont was #4, and Lor-Zod was #5, Karen Starr was #6. Yes, there have been more Kryptonians as Nightwing than Humans. )


Not that matters but Karen story as Nightwing with Kara as Flamebird was before Cheyenne and Lor-Zod.

----------


## marhawkman

> Not that matters but Karen story as Nightwing with Kara as Flamebird was before Cheyenne and Lor-Zod.


Oh, right... oops.  :Big Grin:

----------


## dietrich

> Has this been posted here
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/VikBogdanovic


Vik is fast becoming one of my favs.
Outrageous that I never heard of him till like this year.

----------


## dietrich

> So looking at some Shadow War stuff, this cover piece does make me wonder, and ask a question.
> 
> First of all, Damian looks sick here. 
> 
> Second: Which do you prefer: Hooded Damian or Collared Damian? 
> 
> Tbh, Collared Damian is winning me over than his classical hooded outfit.
> 
> Attachment 116128


I like the hooded look more.

This new Robin suit looks badass.

I like it even more when placed next to Batman's Inc's grey Batsuit.

They go together and compliment each other. The classic Red, yellow and green colour palate always looked out of place next to a stealth serious bat.

If the choice of Yellow on Batsuit acting as a target is still canon then the bright colours for Robin raises many questions.

----------


## dietrich

> I'm looking forward for this event, but I really don't want to see Slade near Damian ever again. Thanks to Priest for that, lol.
> I don't get this intention to make Slade some sort of nemesis to Damian. Not to mention, that he already has huge history with Dick, but all stories Slade and Damian shared were atrociously bad.


I like the Slade and Damian stories but I agree that Slade should be Dick's nemesis. He should only target Damian as a means to get to Dick like in B&R.

Slade really should be Dick's or a Titan foe. Not Damian's not Batman's.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Vik is fast becoming one of my favs.
> Outrageous that I never heard of him till like this year.


I first know about him because he draws New Super-Man. I remember my impression being Capullo 2.0 (because the way they draw faces and the pencil/ink style is similar) but as a compliment. He's in Super family books in Rebirth, though I only remember New Super-Man and Action Comics.

----------


## Rac7d*

> I like the Slade and Damian stories but I agree that Slade should be Dick's nemesis. He should only target Damian as a means to get to Dick like in B&R.
> 
> Slade really should be Dick's or a Titan foe. Not Damian's not Batman's.


Why be a titans nemesis? They don’t do anything. Deathstroke wouldn’t be on tv in movies staring in his own movies if he stuck to just the titans. Now he’s reach a rank beyond them why go back to them. They need him more then he does. That’s why he  keep getting solo titles. 

He has no reason to go after dick unless he continues to crazy about grants death, however he can’t kill Nightwing becuase then he has to deal with Bruce, Robin and the rest of the batfamily. I wish their paths would cross occasionally tho.

----------


## Korath

> I first know about him because he draws New Super-Man. I remember my impression being Capullo 2.0 (because the way they draw faces and the pencil/ink style is similar) but as a compliment. He's in Super family books in Rebirth, though I only remember New Super-Man and Action Comics.


He also worked on Silencer, which was great.

----------


## CPSparkles

Damian's characterisation in Injustice Gods Amongst Us



injusticve.jpg

----------


## adrikito

> Damian's characterisation in Injustice Gods Amongst Us
> 
> 
> 
> injusticve.jpg


We were lucky here

Or Taylor would still be one bad option to write damian after Injustice I

----------


## Eckri

> Damian's characterisation in Injustice Gods Amongst Us
> 
> 
> 
> injusticve.jpg



Yep basically this.

The complete tonal shift from Injustice I Damian to Injustice II Damian was a shock. 

Wonder still how Injustice III will portray Damian, if we consider that Masters of the Universe crossover to be non-canon. Since this is game Damian, probably going to die I guess.

----------


## charliehustle415

> Vik is fast becoming one of my favs.
> Outrageous that I never heard of him till like this year.





> I first know about him because he draws New Super-Man. I remember my impression being Capullo 2.0 (because the way they draw faces and the pencil/ink style is similar) but as a compliment. He's in Super family books in Rebirth, though I only remember New Super-Man and Action Comics.


He was also very good on Wolverine, he reminds me so much of Capullo I had to do a double take

----------


## adrikito

I remember him from new super man but




> https://twitter.com/VikBogdanovic/st...09303477116938


While I see Kenan face style in Superboy with Damian he looks Childish again  :Frown: 

ANYWAY Fortunately anything that involved Supersons is a NO for me

----------


## adrikito

> Yep basically this.
> 
> The complete tonal shift from Injustice I Damian to Injustice II Damian was a shock. 
> 
> Wonder still how Injustice III will portray Damian, if we consider that Masters of the Universe crossover to be non-canon. Since this is game Damian, probably going to die I guess.


WHAT?? Damian game???

These games are TERRIBLE with him

----------


## Fergus

Very cool WB

*We are thrilled to collaborate with @WarnerMedia, @Hospitals4Kids and The Biden-Harris Administration to promote COVID-19 vaccinations by providing posters, bandages and coloring and activity books as giveaways at @Hospitals4Kids clinics: https://bit.ly/3CiukMv#WeCanDoThis* 



Like that they used a Diverse mix of Young heroes

----------


## Fergus

*DC Heroes & Villains
@DCHVGame
Become a master with your very own team of DC Super Heroes and Super-Villains, and prepare for epic battles in this all-new puzzle RPG game! #DCHeroesVillains*






https://twitter.com/i/status/1449465166924451840

Damian's in the new DC Heroes and Villains  RPG Game.

https://mobile.twitter.com/DCHVGame

----------


## Fergus

Interview with Williamson has bots about Batman and Damian

https://www.gamesradar.com/why-batma...tent=newsarama

----------


## Rac7d*

The wait between issues is torture

----------


## adrikito

Yeah.. I think the same. Even more when we are 1 week before the issue

damian wayne Robin cassandra cain batgirl batman.jpg

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/DGD_DC



https://twitter.com/wolfsvile

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/limufeng3



https://twitter.com/tree_hell666

----------


## Rac7d*

> https://twitter.com/limufeng3
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/tree_hell666


I'm gonna miss that ninja outfits

----------


## CPSparkles

> I'm gonna miss that ninja outfits


Me too. I recall speculation that the Gloves might have some other special function. That they might be magical. However they seem to be just there purely for aesthetics.

That doesn't feel very Damian.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Me too. I recall speculation that the Gloves might have some other special function. That they might be magical. However they seem to be just there purely for aesthetics.
> 
> That doesn't feel very Damian.


I had a dream, ra's showed up to the island and helped him use a secret all ghoul technique that gave him  green flaming fists!!!
Lets just go full anime/martial arts  movie

----------


## Blue22

> I had a dream, ra's showed up to the island and helped him use a secret all ghoul technique that gave him  green flaming fists!!!
> Lets just go full anime/martial arts  movie


I am SO Down for that. We already had him randomly using magic in King's run (With zero explanation given. What the fuck)

----------


## adrikito

> 


lol

I was thinking yesterday in add it but I did not had time for it

----------


## Micael

Does Damian see Dick as a father figure similar to how Dick sees Bruce?

I have been thinkin how much similar both relationships are plus the similar age gaps. Obviously they're different in their own way but the parallels are noticeable to me.

Dick a very gifted child loses his parents in a traumatic event and is taken in by a young billionaire bachelor who gives him a chance to be his partner while also taking responsibility in helping him work his issues. Same description for Damian with the difference that he only had one parent "dead" at the time while the other was busy leading a terrorist organization.

Of course later Bruce comes back and builds a deeper connection with Damian and is now the primary father figure. Dick is Nightwing which kinda makes him seem younger but even so I s till get some young uncle vibe whenever is around Damian.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Does Damian see Dick as a father figure similar to how Dick sees Bruce?
> 
> I have been thinkin how much similar both relationships are plus the similar age gaps. Obviously they're different in their own way but the parallels are noticeable to me.
> 
> Dick a very gifted child loses his parents in a traumatic event and is taken in by a young billionaire bachelor who gives him a chance to be his partner while also taking responsibility in helping him work his issues. Same description for Damian with the difference that he only had one parent "dead" at the time while the other was busy leading a terrorist organization.
> 
> Of course later Bruce comes back and builds a deeper connection with Damian and is now the primary father figure. Dick is Nightwing which kinda makes him seem younger but even so I s till get some young uncle vibe whenever is around Damian.




It was somthing dick worried about when Bruce died too

----------


## Blue22

I've always interpreted their relationship as being a little bit of both in terms of "brothers" and "father/son". We know they consider themselves to be brothers. We also know, from Nightwing Rebirth, that Dick did seriously consider taking Damian with him after he stopped being Batman, and that he specifically says that he didn't think he was ready to be a *father*. So he probably also thought/thinks of Damian as being like a son to him.

I don't know how many people have read The Outsiders (the S.E. Hinton novel. Not the comic), but I've always kinda seen their relationship as being like the one that the main character has with his oldest brother.

EDIT:

Rac beat me to it lol

I know Damian and Bruce need some time together to reconcile...but I'm really hoping we get more adventures with Damian and Dick in the future. Either in Williamson's Robin or Taylor's Nightwing. Those two said it, themselves. They were the best.

----------


## dietrich

> Does Damian see Dick as a father figure similar to how Dick sees Bruce?
> 
> I have been thinkin how much similar both relationships are plus the similar age gaps. Obviously they're different in their own way but the parallels are noticeable to me.
> 
> Dick a very gifted child loses his parents in a traumatic event and is taken in by a young billionaire bachelor who gives him a chance to be his partner while also taking responsibility in helping him work his issues. Same description for Damian with the difference that he only had one parent "dead" at the time while the other was busy leading a terrorist organization.
> 
> Of course later Bruce comes back and builds a deeper connection with Damian and is now the primary father figure. Dick is Nightwing which kinda makes him seem younger but even so I s till get some young uncle vibe whenever is around Damian.


Yes I believe he does.

A big part of the appeal [for me] in Dick and Damian is the fact that it mirrors Bruce and Dick's relationship.

Dick made Damian family was his care giver and mentor. Dick is more than Damian's brother. He is a father figure.

----------


## Blue22

https://twitter.com/AminoHood/status...004547/photo/1

----------


## sifighter

Just my continued efforts to say that I like how tall Damian looked in Superman: son of kal-el



He can be shorter then Jon without being a munchkin.

----------


## the1&onlyE.

It seems that, besides Shadow War and Robin, Damian will be in Monkey Prince in March! 



MONKEY PRINCE #2
Written by GENE LUEN YANG 楊謹倫
Art and cover by BERNARD CHANG 張伯納
Variant cover by EJIKURE 吳偉傑
1:25 variant cover by MICHAEL CHO
$3.99 US | 32 pages | $4.99 US Variant (card stock)
ON SALE 3/1/22

Batman and Robin fight with Pigsy overa part of Monkey Prince's body that fell off and is rolling around moving on its own? And Pigsy better grab it quickly, before Monkey Prince transforms back into Marcus Sun, because there's no way a regular teenager could survive that!

----------


## adrikito

From Roger Cruz

https://twitter.com/rogercruzbr/stat...58763531907078

There is 1 more. But is only his head with him smiling:

Damian Wayne Robin 2021 Roger Cruz.jpg

----------


## adrikito

2 images In 1 
Damian Wayne Robin 2021 Roger Cruz.jpg

----------


## Jackalope89

> It seems that, besides Shadow War and Robin, Damian will be in Monkey Prince in March! 
> 
> 
> 
> MONKEY PRINCE #2
> Written by GENE LUEN YANG 楊謹倫
> Art and cover by BERNARD CHANG 張伯納
> Variant cover by EJIKURE 吳偉傑
> 1:25 variant cover by MICHAEL CHO
> ...


The Monkey Prince is looking to be a fun run in general. And now to have a crossover with Damian? Sweet.

----------


## Astralabius

> It seems that, besides Shadow War and Robin, Damian will be in Monkey Prince in March! 
> 
> 
> 
> MONKEY PRINCE #2
> Written by GENE LUEN YANG 楊謹倫
> Art and cover by BERNARD CHANG 張伯納
> Variant cover by EJIKURE 吳偉傑
> 1:25 variant cover by MICHAEL CHO
> ...


It's really not Chang's fault, but seeing Damian in his style again is making me feel a bit annoyed. I get flashbacks to the Glass run.

----------


## garazza

https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...846657/photo/1

----------


## adrikito

> https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...846657/photo/1


One image from ROBIN 11... How Damian can be this calmed surrounded of Lazarus Island people?  :Confused: 


About that.. *Roger Cruz is NOT the only artist from ROBIN 10*.. Apparently there is another called *Norm Rapmund* who is in *Action Comics*... Don´t tell me that we will need the New Superman to stop the Lazarus Devil??  :Frown:  This is not Damian problem?

https://leagueofcomicgeeks.com/people/915/norm-rapmund

----------


## dietrich

> It seems that, besides Shadow War and Robin, Damian will be in Monkey Prince in March! 
> 
> 
> 
> MONKEY PRINCE #2
> Written by GENE LUEN YANG 楊謹倫
> Art and cover by BERNARD CHANG 張伯納
> Variant cover by EJIKURE 吳偉傑
> 1:25 variant cover by MICHAEL CHO
> ...


This is like a dream for me.

Journey to the West is probably my favourite piece of fiction. It's a big part of my childhood. Damian interacting with Sun and Pigsy is something amazing news.

I can't wait.

----------


## adrikito

ROBIN 9 Sneak Peek.. Like Goku tired after one victory

ROBIN 2021 9 Damian Wayne.jpg

----------


## garazza

https://twitter.com/LyOrixa/status/1...720514/photo/1

----------


## garazza

Robin #9 preview

----------


## adrikito

> Robin #9 preview


THANKS for the preview

What we were expecting. She is more extremist than Ra´s.

With Alfred supporting him should be enough to make Damian think in something

----------


## Jackalope89

> THANKS for the preview
> 
> What we were expecting. She is more extremist than Ra´s.
> 
> With Alfred supporting him should be enough to make Damian think in something


Not many can make R'as look like a better person. There's a few, but not many. And now his mother is among them.

----------


## Rac7d*

> THANKS for the preview
> 
> What we were expecting. She is more extremist than Ra´s.
> 
> With Alfred supporting him should be enough to make Damian think in something


She just lost all subtly tho Danm granny

----------


## adrikito

> Not many can make R'as look like a better person. There's a few, but not many. And now his mother is among them.


Williamson made me see him with better eyes here..

With Talia nothing changed.. She is still toxic with her son..

----------


## garazza

https://twitter.com/DHenriquesInks/s...09741119029264

----------


## Jackalope89

> Williamson made me see him with better eyes here..
> 
> With Talia nothing changed.. She is still toxic with her son..


True. Though on a wider scale, she's far less extreme then her father.

----------


## adrikito

> True. Though on a wider scale, she's far less extreme then her father.


Probably.. If I am not wrong he tried to steal Damian body..

Similar to what he made with his daughter in Batman Beyond.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Probably.. If I am not wrong he tried to steal Damian body..
> 
> Similar to what he made with his daughter in Batman Beyond.


She also killed him with his mutant clone, she is extreme when she wants to be

----------


## adrikito

> She also killed him with his mutant clone, she is extreme when she wants to be



I know... With HERETIC. And while Bruce was saying YOU KILLED OUR SON she still said Toxic Words about it..

and despite in RSOB wanting Damian forgive her she has been later TOXIC with him too showing until which point is a Toxic mother and is a Mistake reunite them..

I saw a Supersons image with Talia putting a Sword in Damian neck.. Do you think that is normal?? You wanted him forgive you for that and you continue showing until which point you are a terrible mother??

----------


## Astralabius

> I know... With HERETIC. And while Bruce was saying YOU KILLED OUR SON she still said Toxic Words about it..
> 
> and despite in RSOB wanting Damian forgive her she has been later TOXIC with him too showing until which point is a Toxic mother and is a Mistake reunite them..
> 
> I saw a Supersons image with Talia putting a Sword in Damian neck.. Do you think that is normal?? You wanted him forgive you for that and you continue showing until which point you are a terrible mother??


Congratulations for falling for DC's racist bullshit then.

----------


## dietrich

> I know... With HERETIC. And while Bruce was saying YOU KILLED OUR SON she still said Toxic Words about it..
> 
> and despite in RSOB wanting Damian forgive her she has been later TOXIC with him too showing until which point is a Toxic mother and is a Mistake reunite them..
> 
> I saw a Supersons image with Talia putting a Sword in Damian neck.. Do you think that is normal?? You wanted him forgive you for that and you continue showing until which point you are a terrible mother??


Damian has 2 terrible parents but on the bright side both are trying to do better. Not sure why6 only Talia gets flack or why reuniting with Talia is a mistake but reuniting with Bruce is a positive.

----------


## dietrich

> Congratulations for falling for DC's racist bullshit then.


Talia being a bad parent isn't DC's racist bullshit. Poc can be bad parents same as Caucasians [Bruce]

Talia is a bad guy. I don't understand this sudden move to whitewash her character. She loves her kid [in her own twisted way] but she is still an antagonist and she was/is a bad parent.

----------


## dietrich

> Robin #9 preview


This is going to be emotional. I hope we get some uplifting Damian arc's soon.

----------


## adrikito

> Congratulations for falling for DC's racist bullshit then.


*Racism?? Talia and Ra´s are villains.*. You can not expect them be good. 

I am even surprised about people wanting to see Damian reuniting with Talia watching what happens.

Is more for HERETIC events than other thing why I hate her. It made Batman look good and is not like Bruce is a Good Parent neither... But the Alghul reached a point that the best is not reunite Damian too much with them.


I like Deathstroke but *I know enough about him to know that he is Trash too*. Between things like TERRA and brainwash Rose to say some examples.

----------


## marhawkman

> Damian has 2 terrible parents but on the bright side both are trying to do better. Not sure why6 only Talia gets flack or why reuniting with Talia is a mistake but reuniting with Bruce is a positive.


Yeah Damian's probably betteer off with Dick TBH.... even if it means becoming Nightwing #7.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## adrikito

> Yeah Damian's probably betteer off with Dick TBH.... even if it means becoming Nightwing #7.


Knowing his DARK STORY it would make better and more BALANCED make him NIGHTWING than continue ruining his life making him Batman..

https://screenrant.com/damian-nightw...-injustice-dc/




> Readers would get a chance to see how well of a Dark Knight he would be in Batman #666 by Grant Morrison and Andy Kubert. Set in a potential future, Damian is continuing his father's war on crime as Batman alone and made a deal with the devil to keep it safe. This future for Batman's son is dark and leaves no room for all the development he's made in the last several years. Fortunately, *the Injustice comic series showed an alternate path to a brighter future for Damian Wayne.
> 
> After Dick Grayson died in the Injustice universe, his spirit passes on the moniker and gear of Nightwing to Damian and encourages him to grow out of his father's shadow. The passing of the Nightwing mantle is an attempt by Grayson to help the young man find peac*e by not being held down by the pressures and expectations that come with being Batman's son.





> Damian has 2 terrible parents but on the bright side both are trying to do better. Not sure why6 only Talia gets flack or why reuniting with Talia is a mistake but reuniting with Bruce is a positive.


YEAH.. Give Justice to this characters is making him follow his MENTOR path who is better father than Bruce

https://screenrant.com/nightwing-is-...tman-ever-was/



and probably *Astralabius* was thinking in this TWEET.. 

https://twitter.com/SIM0NJESS/status...66742390198272

I saw it today few minutes ago... Damian is the only that made me Hate her. I can not see her as the victim of the situation.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

I think Thalia is terrible as mommy, but in comics characters do forgive murder and terrible actions a lot... Tim kind forgives Damian, Jason kind forgives Bruce, Bruce kind forgives Slade, Damian forgives Thalia... infinity list here, so it's part of DC heroes universe.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

But, talking about good parents ... why nobody here is talking about the FLUFFY FLUFFY peace or art that is Wayne Family Adventures? (#TuT#)/ I am so in love by they all, Bruce included.

----------


## Jackalope89

> But, talking about good parents ... why nobody here is talking about the FLUFFY FLUFFY peace or art that is Wayne Family Adventures? (#TuT#)/ I am so in love by they all, Bruce included.


Yeah, still following and enjoying this series. Some of them last 2-3 issues, others are one shots. But all have been fun so far.

----------


## dietrich

> I think Thalia is terrible as mommy, but in comics characters do forgive murder and terrible actions a lot... Tim kind forgives Damian, Jason kind forgives Bruce, Bruce kind forgives Slade, Damian forgives Thalia... infinity list here, so it's part of DC heroes universe.


Tim forgave Jason not Damian.

Damian forgave Talia [although it must always be made clear that Talia didn't kill Damian]

Jason has nothing to forgive Bruce for since the comics view Robins being endangered as the responsibility of the Robin [Jason and Damian should have listened and not disobeyed orders. They did and they got killed]

There is nothing to forgive but we don't just cut out family from our lives because they hurt us.

Look at the bats. Damian has tried to kill Tim. Tim has physically assaulted and been racist to Damian, Jason has tried to kill everyone of his brother and their father, Alfred sent a 10 year old away just to protect a grown man, Bruce let his teen son take the blame for the death of a family member that he caused.

they'll work through it.

----------


## dietrich

> Knowing his DARK STORY it would make better and more BALANCED make him NIGHTWING than continue ruining his life making him Batman..
> 
> https://screenrant.com/damian-nightw...-injustice-dc/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YEAH.. Give Justice to this characters is making him follow his MENTOR path who is better father than Bruce
> ...


If you cut out everyone who has a negative effect on Damian then Damian stories would be him in a room playing with pets. I don't think that sells books.

It's okay if you hate Talia, Jon o0r Harley bur this is a Damian Appreciation thread and it shouldn't be used to bash other characters. We get it. You dislike them? then don't read the issues with them. Simple.

----------


## dietrich

> Yeah Damian's probably betteer off with Dick TBH.... even if it means becoming Nightwing #7.


as much as o like Dick with Damian I don't want Damian handed off to Nightwing. The nightwing title sucks enough as it is with so many characters there taking focus away from Dick.

I don't want Damian adding to it. Damian shouldn't be Dick's responsibility.

----------


## Rac7d*

> as much as o like Dick with Damian I don't want Damian handed off to Nightwing. The nightwing title sucks enough as it is with so many characters there taking focus away from Dick.
> 
> I don't want Damian adding to it. Damian shouldn't be Dick's responsibility.


Danm you make him sound like a burden

----------


## adrikito

> If you cut out everyone who has a negative effect on Damian then Damian stories would be him in a room playing with pets. I don't think that sells books.


You are right in that.. And is not like I care about Talia image.




> If you cut out everyone who has a negative effect on Damian then Damian stories would be him in a room playing with pets. I don't think that sells books.
> 
> It's okay if you hate Talia, Jon o0r Harley bur this is a Damian Appreciation thread and it shouldn't be used to bash other characters. We get it. You dislike them? then don't read the issues with them. Simple.


OK. I did not mentioned them this time.. That Time where Supersons was almost every day in this topic I stopped visiting this topic..

Also is not like if Harley and Damian reunite too much.

----------


## batnbreakfast

Random Idea: Watching Hawkeye on D+... is that the way to do Batman and Robin?

----------


## Blue22

Man...Williamson just keeps fucking delivering with this book. I haven't loved a comic this much since Tomasi's first Super Sons. #9 was just....damn, I can't even put into words how happy I was while I was reading it. Robin, Nightwing, and Static continue to be my top DC books this year. By a VERY wide margin.




> Random Idea: Watching Hawkeye on D+... is that the way to do Batman and Robin?


Depends on what you mean by "the way". Especially since Bruce has had different dynamics with all of his Robins. What Clint and Kate had in Hawkeye definitely wasn't like Bruce and Damian. But that's not necessarily a good or bad thing. All four of them are completely different characters.

----------


## sifighter

> Man...Williamson just keeps fucking delivering with this book. I haven't loved a comic this much since Tomasi's first Super Sons. #9 was just....damn, I can't even put into words how happy I was while I was reading it. Robin, Nightwing, and Static continue to be my top DC books this year. By a VERY wide margin.
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on what you mean by "the way". Especially since Bruce has had different dynamics with all of his Robins. What Clint and Kate had in Hawkeye definitely wasn't like Bruce and Damian. But that's not necessarily a good or bad thing. All four of them are completely different characters.


Yeah Williamson really gets Damian and gives him excellent moments in this most recent issue. It was great especially with the ghost of Alfred.

----------


## Light of Justice

*spoilers:*
Damian is so badass in the newest issue. And that "what do you say for yourself?" "*tt*"  :EEK!:  
I'll use that one day, will be grounded for life but it's worth it.

Btw that beam from villain's mouth is so.... Anime. 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## KrustyKid

Great issue. Really loved Damian's ultimate premise

----------


## adrikito

*spoilers:*
ALFRED IS THE BEST. Thanks for your help Penyworth. I think that is his last appearance like this..

Unlikely allies fighting together thanks to Damian..

I missed Hawke when they made the Devil lose his head.

I think that Mother Soul could hate Damian more than the rest of his Maternal family after this

*end of spoilers*


Last page was unexpected. Nobody could had predicted this..

----------


## HsssH

I'm glad that you guys like it, but I'm probably dropping it by #12. Every issue has things that annoy me and this one was no different.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I'm glad that you guys like it, but I'm probably dropping it by #12. Every issue has things that annoy me and this one was no different.


I'm guessing you're not big on Shonen Manga then. Because this series has taken a lot of inspiration from it.

----------


## garazza

*spoilers:*
MY! BOY!

I really liked the sequence of Damian reenacting Year One. Honestly exceeded my expectations.

I also really liked the callback to that one Streets of Gotham story where Damian wiped blood across his eyes for a temporary mask. To me, this is the first time Damian has shown real confidence. Before, his confidence  would come from a place of superiority. But here, his confidence comes from being self-assured and reaffirmed. Goes to show just how important and vital Alfred is to the Batfamily and the Bat mythos.

With everyone teaming up to take down the Lazarus Demon, now we know why they're seen hanging out and chumming it up at a beach party in a future issue.

First, Williamson demonstrated Damian's connection to his father through the Year One sequence. Next, we'll be exploring his connection to his mother's side of his family. Demon. Detective.

And how could I forget my obligatory tirade against romance? I'd be kind of OK if what happened is everyone _around_ Damian and Flatline keeps insinuating they're boyfriend and girlfriend, much to his annoyance, when in actuality they continue to just be friends/friendly rivals.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Fergus

> Yeah *Williamson really gets Damian* and gives him excellent moments in this most recent issue. It was great especially with the ghost of Alfred.


Indeed. You can tell when a writer truly cares for a character but isn't a full on fanboy. Williamson's love and understanding of the character is plain to see without crossing over into over the top character worship, or wanking.

----------


## HsssH

> I'm guessing you're not big on Shonen Manga then. Because this series has taken a lot of inspiration from it.


I'm not sure. For example what really bugs me is stuff like the sequence with Respawn's chain around demon's head. At first we can see that it starts to burn and Respawn obviously won't be able to hold it for long, but then Damian grabs it too (and then other characters as well) and it stops burning. Why? I guess power of friendship.

But now I'm looking at the pages again and it is not even clear if chain is still burning or not.

----------


## Rac7d*

> I'm not sure. For example what really bugs me is stuff like the sequence with Respawn's chain around demon's head. At first we can see that it starts to burn and Respawn obviously won't be able to hold it for long, but then Damian grabs it too (and then other characters as well) and it stops burning. Why? I guess power of friendship.
> 
> But now I'm looking at the pages again and it is not even clear if chain is still burning or not.


That’s how anime works

----------


## adrikito

> I'm glad that you guys like it, but I'm probably dropping it by #12. Every issue has things that annoy me and this one was no different.


Watching people still mentioning Shiva I am not surprised about it(I suppose that other things will exist to make someone complain). Despite sometimes I wonder why they continue reading. She will appear in the next arc but is not like she can randomly appear in this tournament anymore to continue mentioning her.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Watching people still mentioning Shiva I am not surprised about it(I suppose that other things will exist to make someone complain). Despite sometimes I wonder why they continue reading. She will appear in the next arc but is not like she can randomly appear in this tournament anymore to continue mentioning her.


Why do people want shiva here? Tournaments are for people to prove themselves why would she be here?

----------


## Blue22

Yeah I'm overjoyed that a lot of the big name fighters like Shiva, Cass, Black Canary, or Bronze Tiger aren't here. Honestly, I'm kind of annoyed Tiger even entered in the first place.

----------


## Harryrun

I think people are upset because the tournament fighters are supposed to be the best in the world yet the most skilled ones aren't participating which is cool since it made Damain and Hawke being the final two believable but I think Williamson could have solved this issue by mentioning that they got invited but they declined to join.

----------


## Light of Justice

> I think people are upset because the tournament fighters are supposed to be the best in the world yet the most skilled ones aren't participating which is cool since it made Damain and Hawke being the final two believable but I think Williamson could have solved this issue by mentioning that they got invited but they declined to join.


He did. iirc Shiva refused, Bronze Tiger was paid to not participate, Black Canary and Cass will refuse tournament that force you to kill your opponent

----------


## adrikito

> Why do people want shiva here? Tournaments are for people to prove themselves why would she be here?


You are right here..

For this Rose fits more than Slade who the League of Lazarus wanted here

----------


## Blue22

> He did. iirc Shiva refused, Bronze Tiger was paid to not participate, Black Canary and Cass will refuse tournament that force you to kill your opponent


Shiva got paid off, Bronze Tiger entered and lost the preliminary because his opponent cheated.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> I think people are upset because the tournament fighters are supposed to be the best in the world yet the most skilled ones aren't participating which is cool since it made Damain and Hawke being the final two believable but I think Williamson could have solved this issue by mentioning that they got invited but they declined to join.


They are definitely not the most skilled, since Flat Line is there, Super Power people can participate, not Shiva or Cass are the most skilled compared with DC universe character.
I am enjoying the comics, but, yes, it's is forced, I would prefer Mother Soul's planning being "They were never the strongest, I need people weaker than Lazarus Demon so he can eat them all and would not be destroyed before becoming complete" and "You are just the most overconfident about your skills and blind enough for coming for a Mortal Kombat for prove yourself".
It would be a really better explanation than say XXL is one of the most skilled person in earth or even Damian and Hawke.

----------


## Rebeca Armus

> Tim forgave Jason not Damian.
> 
> Damian forgave Talia [although it must always be made clear that Talia didn't kill Damian]
> 
> Jason has nothing to forgive Bruce for since the comics view Robins being endangered as the responsibility of the Robin [Jason and Damian should have listened and not disobeyed orders. They did and they got killed]
> 
> There is nothing to forgive but we don't just cut out family from our lives because they hurt us.
> 
> Look at the bats. Damian has tried to kill Tim. Tim has physically assaulted and been racist to Damian, Jason has tried to kill everyone of his brother and their father, Alfred sent a 10 year old away just to protect a grown man, Bruce let his teen son take the blame for the death of a family member that he caused.
> ...


Are you sure Thalia didn't killed Damian? Because he said to Todd something like "you think yourself like the Robin who died, but we all died".
And about Jason, I did should be more specific, I still didn't get over  Bruce punching Jason and trying to put him in Arkham when fake tried to kill Penguin and Arsenal needed to save him.



*OUTCH*

And being fair with Tim, he would put Damian in the secret criminal list even if he was not half Arabian, again, Damian was a self proclaimed assassin, trained by assassins that tried assassin Tim less than 1 year ago.

----------


## HsssH

I'll just quote Damian's grandma here: We needed to know, without a shadow of a doubt, who was the deadliest fighter in the world. 

So yeah, thats why people expect characters like Shiva participating in this tournament. Bad writing is bad writing.

----------


## marhawkman

> I'll just quote Damian's grandma here: We needed to know, without a shadow of a doubt, who was the deadliest fighter in the world. 
> 
> So yeah, thats why people expect characters like Shiva participating in this tournament. Bad writing is bad writing.


Yeah, that's a weird premise for a story with randos never seen before.

----------


## dietrich

> Are you sure Thalia didn't killed Damian? Because he said to Todd something like "you think yourself like the Robin who died, but we all died".
> And about Jason, I did should be more specific, I still didn't get over  Bruce punching Jason and trying to put him in Arkham when fake tried to kill Penguin and Arsenal needed to save him.
> 
> 
> 
> *OUTCH*
> 
> And being fair with Tim, he would put Damian in the secret criminal list even if he was not half Arabian, again, Damian was a self proclaimed assassin, trained by assassins that tried assassin Tim less than 1 year ago.


Heretic killed Damian against Talia's orders which was why talia killed him.
When Suren brought him back that wasn't Talia that killed him.
Flatline, connor, heretic, the Lu'un Draga have all killed Damian not Talia.

That was jason's fault. He could have told Bruce that he had been using rubber bullets for years and avoided a beat down but he didn't.

He pushed Bruce's buttons for what? Shits and giggles? pretending to kill a man isn't something you joke about. 

Damian was a self proclaimed assassin who risked his life to save Tim's life weeks [after jason beat him to a pulp, Stabbed him and left him to blow up] before Tim put him on that list.


I don't know if Tim putting Damian on the list had anything to do with his Arabian heritage but i know that tim rescued Jason who tried to kill him the last time they met while Damian who last they met was assaulted by Tim [after Damian saved his life] was put on a list.

He put him on a list despite the fact that Dick and Alfred trusted him, he was risking his life every night saving and helping others, he had risked his life to save Tim bur because of his biology Tim felt he was wrong and bad.

Anyway that's not why I called tim prejudiced. The use of the word homunculus is what I took offence to.

----------


## dietrich

> Yeah I'm overjoyed that a lot of the big name fighters like Shiva, Cass, Black Canary, or Bronze Tiger aren't here. Honestly, I'm kind of annoyed Tiger even entered in the first place.


What! Do you not think it would have been even more exciting if Karate kid was part of the Tournament?

Who could the winner possibly be?

----------


## Catlady in training

I like this title, even though I don't read manga and I am not interested in it. Some of the obvious inspirations from it are a bit annoying to me, but I am glad that Damian at least has a book, he deserved one for a long time. Liked the "mask" drawn by blood, it's cheesy but in character for him, plus it's a callback to a previous issue where he did that, I believe it was in Streets of Gotham.

Regarding the "best" fighters, I don't mind that there are no A-listers here. I don't read many DC comics outside of Batman, so I don't know a lot about the characters that are supposed to be the best fighters, but would adults enter a tournament like this? It sounds like something made for teenagers specifically. Are adult figters that bothered by proving they are the bestest of the best?

----------


## dietrich

> I like this title, even though I don't read manga and I am not interested in it. Some of the obvious inspirations from it are a bit annoying to me, but I am glad that Damian at least has a book, he deserved one for a long time. Liked the "mask" drawn by blood, it's cheesy but in character for him, plus it's a callback to a previous issue where he did that, I believe it was in Streets of Gotham.
> 
> Regarding the "best" fighters, I don't mind that there are no A-listers here. I don't read many DC comics outside of Batman, so I don't know a lot about the characters that are supposed to be the best fighters, but would adults enter a tournament like this? It sounds like something made for teenagers specifically. Are adult figters that bothered by proving they are the bestest of the best?


Liked the call back to streets of Gotham too and the Year 1 call back.

This title has been fun and now that the tournament is done looking forward to the next chapter.

I like the dynamic of the main characters
I'm interested in finding out more about the Al ghul heritage and i like the fact that these events have been removed from Gotham.

It has been nice to have a change of location.

----------


## Morgoth

Williamson didn't bring Shiva and Cass here, because they he planned specific ending for this tournament with Damian and Connor. If they took part in this and lose, some people would have literal mental breakdown.
So, it's actually not surprising that he didn't bring them here. And I don't any reason for them to be here anyway, they have nothing to prove.

----------


## HsssH

Guys, it is not about someone like Shiva having to prove something here. It is about grandma saying that this tournament proved, without shadow of a doubt, that Connor is the deadliest fighter in DC universe.

This wouldn't be a problem at all if, as Rebeca Armus wrote, Williamson simply had written something about participants in this tournament being strong enough to host the demon, but at the same time not strong enough to defeat it. But if grandma wants deadliest fighter and she can't get people Shiva or Deathstroke into her tournament then she failed before the tournament even started. And I don't think that Williamson's intention here was to make grandma look stupid.

----------


## JackJustMetMartin

> Guys, it is not about someone like Shiva having to prove something here. It is about grandma saying that this tournament proved, without shadow of a doubt, that Connor is the deadliest fighter in DC universe.
> 
> This wouldn't be a problem at all if, as Rebeca Armus wrote, Williamson simply had written something about participants in this tournament being strong enough to host the demon, but at the same time not strong enough to defeat it. But if grandma wants deadliest fighter and she can't get people Shiva or Deathstroke into her tournament then she failed before the tournament even started. And I don't think that Williamson's intention here was to make grandma look stupid.


Exactly, he participants of the tournament invalidated it. Of the fighters presented, only Connor is really ever considered as a top tier fighter by DC fans. Where's Wildcat, Cheshire, Onyx and countless others that are considered in the top ten of DC martial artists. Without their involvement the tournament lacks legitimacy.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Guys, it is not about someone like Shiva having to prove something here. It is about grandma saying that this tournament proved, without shadow of a doubt, that Connor is the deadliest fighter in DC universe.
> 
> This wouldn't be a problem at all if, as Rebeca Armus wrote, Williamson simply had written something about participants in this tournament being strong enough to host the demon, but at the same time not strong enough to defeat it. But if grandma wants deadliest fighter and she can't get people Shiva or Deathstroke into her tournament then she failed before the tournament even started. And I don't think that Williamson's intention here was to make grandma look stupid.


Did she say "DC universe"? We never saw the completed product, but in theory th being merged with the lazarus beast would be an immortals martial killing machine. I'm still not clear on what her ultimate purpose would be with this tool, proably to be revealed in the next issue.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Exactly, he participants of the tournament invalidated it. Of the fighters presented, only Connor is really ever considered as a top tier fighter by DC fans. Where's Wildcat, Cheshire, Onyx and countless others that are considered in the top ten of DC martial artists. Without their involvement the tournament lacks legitimacy.


the legitimacy of what? Also its nice to see that YJ has put a character people are not familar with into the limelight lol onyx.  So if serena williams doesnt enter a tennis tournament is the winner invalidated because she did not participate. That can not be and is not how this works. Even more so the winners are deceided by the writer, Shiva could loose to emiko if someone wanted her too. She could loose to Stephanie brown. Their is no outcome that changes the current heiricary of fighters that would ever satisfy everyone. Tournaments arc are never about winning anyway. Mother sol didnt care, she gets her weapon in the end, and everyone else, got their self discovery arcs.

Character like Shiva, Cass Richard Bronze Tiger and Bruce do not belong in tournaments.

----------


## HsssH

> Did she say "DC universe"? We never saw the completed product, but in theory th being merged with the lazarus beast would be an immortals martial killing machine. I'm still not clear on what her ultimate purpose would be with this tool, proably to be revealed in the next issue.


If you want to nitpick then sure, she didn't say "in the DC universe", she said "in the world". And I'm not sure what is not clear to you about the demon? I thought she explained rather clearly what her plans was.

----------


## Rac7d*

> If you want to nitpick then sure, she didn't say "in the DC universe", she said "in the world". And I'm not sure what is not clear to you about the demon? I thought she explained rather clearly what her plans was.


To cleanse then world, that still seemed vague. I’m hoping next issue will
Go into more detail

----------


## dietrich

> Danm you make him sound like a burden


Sorry. Didn't mean it like that. Just meant that Dick has had a tough time just like Damian and needs some love and focus to build him back up.

Nightwing needs to focus on reminding fans what made/makes Dick Grayson so engaging and damian is the type of character that can't help draw focus .

----------


## dietrich

> But, talking about good parents ... why nobody here is talking about the FLUFFY FLUFFY peace or art that is Wayne Family Adventures? (#TuT#)/ I am so in love by they all, Bruce included.


So cute. Loved this issue a lot.

----------


## garazza

https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...131077/photo/1



Gangs all here.

----------


## Blue22

So the past two Pay-Per-View chapters of Wayne Family Adventures were about Damian and they were SO damn precious! (also confirmed that Jon exists in this universe, even if we don't actually see him)

*spoilers:*
Damian trying to make friends at school and being an awkward wreck was hilarious. Poor kid. It was nice seeing his family trying to help him (and I really like that Steph was the first person he called. Now if only the actual comics would remember those two work well together), and the ending was really nice with him joining the art club. This webcomic continues to be everything I could ask for out of a slice of life Batfamily series.
*end of spoilers*

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## Rebeca Armus

> Heretic killed Damian against Talia's orders which was why talia killed him.
> When Suren brought him back that wasn't Talia that killed him.
> Flatline, connor, heretic, the Lu'un Draga have all killed Damian not Talia.


Maybe I don't remember this well, I rememberer Damian begging Thalia for stop Heretic and she don't, I also rembember Damian asking why she killed him and she saying something like "I don't know but I regret it"




> That was jason's fault. He could have told Bruce that he had been using rubber bullets for years and avoided a beat down but he didn't.
> 
> He pushed Bruce's buttons for what? Shits and giggles? pretending to kill a man isn't something you joke about.


I think we will just disagree here, Bruce was so sooo cruel here, his actions, his speaks, just too much.




> Damian was a self proclaimed assassin who risked his life to save Tim's life weeks [after jason beat him to a pulp, Stabbed him and left him to blow up] before Tim put him on that list.
> 
> I don't know if Tim putting Damian on the list had anything to do with his Arabian heritage but i know that tim rescued Jason who tried to kill him the last time they met while Damian who last they met was assaulted by Tim [after Damian saved his life] was put on a list.
> 
> He put him on a list despite the fact that Dick and Alfred trusted him, he was risking his life every night saving and helping others, he had risked his life to save Tim bur because of his biology Tim felt he was wrong and bad.
> 
> Anyway that's not why I called tim prejudiced. The use of the word homunculus is what I took offence to.


this I just don't remember u.u

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## Rebeca Armus

> Sorry. Didn't mean it like that. Just meant that Dick has had a tough time just like Damian and needs some love and focus to build him back up.
> 
> Nightwing needs to focus on reminding fans what made/makes Dick Grayson so engaging and damian is the type of character that can't help draw focus .


Agree, still... I am not against Damian showing up in one comic of Nightwing or a NightWing and Robin 10 volumes story...

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## Rebeca Armus

> So cute. Loved this issue a lot.


"Time to be kind" >3<)/

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## Rac7d*

> Sorry. Didn't mean it like that. Just meant that Dick has had a tough time just like Damian and needs some love and focus to build him back up.
> 
> Nightwing needs to focus on reminding fans what made/makes Dick Grayson so engaging and damian is the type of character that can't help draw focus .


Nightwing stepping up as Batman and being the positive force in the life of a child who needed him was engaging. It’s one of his most memorable periods

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## Rebeca Armus

> https://twitter.com/GlebMelnikov8/st...131077/photo/1
> 
> 
> 
> Gangs all here.


I would like to see this Connor and Damian adventures, Flatline did not grew in my heart :/, maybe I had too much expectation because I loved her look so much...

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## Rebeca Armus

> Nightwing stepping up as Batman and being the positive force in the life of a child who needed him was engaging. It’s one of his most memorable periods


It is true, Dick is just great, it's one more story that shows this

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## Lal

Look like Comichorn released the October sales chart (just ranking)
https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...1/2021-10.html

Robin is still selling well.

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## adrikito

> Look like Comichorn released the October sales chart (just ranking)
> https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...1/2021-10.html
> 
> Robin is still selling well.


YEAH.. I did not saw it in some time but happy for it..

Anyway the only complains that I listen about this comic for few persons part are always WHERE IS SHIVA?? 

Yeah. You want the BEST here to ruin everything. Anyway. She will appear soon apparently.

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## OBrianTallent

Random question...has it been said anywhere what's happened to Goliath from Son of the Bat series?  I rather liked him.

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## Rac7d*

> Random question...has it been said anywhere what's happened to Goliath from Son of the Bat series?  I rather liked him.


He’s hanging out with ras right now we saw him in issue 4 of this series

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## Arctic Cyclist

> Random question...has it been said anywhere what's happened to Goliath from Son of the Bat series?  I rather liked him.


Well, Beast Boy tore his wings to shreds right before No Justice. So he's been in recovery, an oddly accurate recovery time as that was roughly three to six months ago in universe which matches up with real life bat rescue recovery for identical injuries. It's not shown where, but we know it's not Gotham.

He's now hanging out with Ra's on a tropical island. Again, this makes perfect sense as Ra's is an ecologist and ecologists universally love bats. Biologists love bats too. Drunk adults at the zoo love bats. 

Ra's fits into all of these categories. Obviously he's happy to be a hippie (again) and hang out with giant bats. Who wouldn't be?

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## OBrianTallent

> He’s hanging out with ras right now we saw him in issue 4 of this series





> Well, Beast Boy tore his wings to shreds right before No Justice. So he's been in recovery, an oddly accurate recovery time as that was roughly three to six months ago in universe which matches up with real life bat rescue recovery for identical injuries. It's not shown where, but we know it's not Gotham.
> 
> He's now hanging out with Ra's on a tropical island. Again, this makes perfect sense as Ra's is an ecologist and ecologists universally love bats. Biologists love bats too. Drunk adults at the zoo love bats. 
> 
> Ra's fits into all of these categories. Obviously he's happy to be a hippie (again) and hang out with giant bats. Who wouldn't be?


Cool, thanks guys.  I didn't recall him in issue four and do not remember Beast Boy tearing him up at all.  Will have to go back and re-read those.
i certianly wouldn't mind being a hippie hanging out with giant, rideable bats on a deserted island.   :Smile:

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## adrikito

> Well, Beast Boy tore his wings to shreds right before No Justice. So he's been in recovery, an oddly accurate recovery time as that was roughly three to six months ago in universe which matches up with real life bat rescue recovery for identical injuries. It's not shown where, but we know it's not Gotham.


WTF... Why he made that?? Poor Goliath

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## Styles



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## dietrich

> 


I really love this costume. At first it was jarring because I associated the primary colours Green, Yellow and Red to Robin but the more I see this costume the more I love it and the more it makes sense.

@Styles this is the old Appreciation Thread.

Here's the link for the 2022 Appreciation thread

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...ion-2022/page2

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## Arctic Cyclist

> WTF... Why he made that?? Poor Goliath


Beast Boy was being angsty and stupid...which, yes, I know is the entirety of the character...and decided to met someone off the internet. Who happened to be a techno cult leader who murdered her own abusive parents and then started gathering up teens to implant with chips so they could live out a Peter Pan fantasy. It was ham fisted.

That all said, re-reading Percy's Teen Titans is entertaining as he writes an absolutely fantastic Goliath, and relationship between Damian and Goliath. His Damian is a great portrayal of a neglected thirteen year attempting to fit into an older sibling's space after that sibling has left for college/military/adult life and the sibling's friends aren't entirely happy about either the kid moving in or the sibling being gone.

Most importantly, thanks to Percy we know that Goliath is the mascot for a minor league baseball team. He also reinforces what Gleason and Tomasi had already established about Damian and Goliath: if Goliath decides he likes someone, Damian has to accept them and if Goliath doesn't like them then Damian draws away.

Which raises some very interesting questions about Damian's relationships with the rest of the Batfamily and Catwoman as we are shown that Goliath doesn't hang out with any of them. We are also firmly shown that none of Damian's pets besides Alfred the Cat will interact with Selina, and have started avoiding the rest of the Batfamily.

I'm sure that has more to do with royalties than actual editors having a plan, but it's still an interesting thing to consider especially after Bruce and Selina murdering a horse.

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