# Comics  > Batman >  Jason Todd: Robin, Red Hood, Arkham Knight Appreciation 2019

## Sergard

"I'm my own man! Me, Jason Todd!"
(Batman #408)


(source)
_Jason Peter Todd, born and risen in Lady City of Gotham's crudest part that came to become the second Robin, the Red Hood and the Wingman; the Arkham Knight of a different, grimmer universe; The Damned Prince of Gotham who suffered and died by the hand of the Clown Prince of Crime. But the young man whose sheer will and bad luck couldn't let him rest and who made his way back from the grave.

Vigilante, avenger: he fights for fairness, for setting the wrong right and for defending and protecting those who cannot fend themselves, and he will do so crossing lines into dark areas or delivering a brutal brand of justice. A daring and sassy adventurer who has traveled not only this world and the space, but other universes. A flawed man who fights not only the monsters out but also inside, who fears the ghosts of memories and suffers from them and despite that will fight back with determination. A man who can despise himself as much as he despises others; Who makes mistakes but also rights; Who can love as much as long for being loved, and hate as much as he loves. Who can lose himself in anger as well as in loneliness.

Jason Peter Todd is a complex character, product of a complex editorial history. This is his appreciation thread and this is how we come to appreciate and ramble about him._

(Thanks @Zaresh for writing the above introduction.)

"Even back then, Batman wasn't sure if I was going to be a hero ... or *something else*."
(Red Hood and the Outlaws Rebirth)
*Quick two-step introduction to Jason Todd/Red Hood*

*Step 1*: Watch _Batman: Under the Red Hood_
*Step 2*: Read the current Rebirth run of _Red Hood and the Outlaws_ (renamed _Red Hood: Outlaw_ with issue 27), trades:
Red Hood and the Outlaws Vol 1 - Dark TrinityRed Hood and the Outlaws Vol 2 - Who is Artemis?Red Hood and the Outlaws Vol 3 - Bizarro RebornRed Hood and the Outlaws Vol 4 - Good Night GothamRed Hood: Outlaw Vol 1 - Requiem for an ArcherRed Hood: Outlaw Vol 2 - Prince of GothamRed Hood: Outlaw Vol 3 - Generation Outlaw (release date: 30-Jun-2020)

*interviews*
Behind the Red Hood with Paul Levitz, Bob Schreck, Judd Winick, and Doug Mahnke (copy)

*Families, Allies and Friends*

"Someday I hope you'll come to look upon me as your *father*, and by then I hope I'll be able to speak to you with more patience and wisdom than I've demonstrated so far."
Bruce Wayne (Detective Comics #533)
Todd family (special moments)

*Willis Todd* - Jason's father. Presumed deceased; but actually alive.

"So this is *Gotham*. Your Home. You're gonna be everything I *never* was. A damned Prince of Gotham. I'm gonna keep you safe. Be a dad you can look up to."
Willis Todd (Red Hood and the Outlaws #23 [2016 - ])

*Catherine Todd* - Jason's mother, presumed dead.*Faye Gunn/Ma Gunn* - Willis' mother and Jason's grandmother

"I deserve my fate. I'll be fine. I've grown accustomed to the dark."
Ma Gunn (Red Hood and the Outlaws #25 [2016 - ])

*Faye Gunn* - Jason's cousin

"I'm just trying to understand what she sees in you. She seems to think you're special."
Faye Gunn to Jason Todd about Ma Gunn (Red Hood and the Outlaws #22 [2016 - ])



batfamily (special moments)

*Bruce Wayne/Batman* - Jason's adoptive father, Jason and Bruce have a very complicated relationship with ups and downs


"Why do all the cub scouts in spandex *always* say that? 'If I cross that line, there's no coming back.' I'm not talking about killing Cobblepot or Clayface. Not Riddler or Dent. I'm talking about *him*. Just him. And doing it because .... because he took me away from you."
Jason Todd to Bruce Wayne (Batman #450)

*Alfred Pennyworth* - the Wayne-butler and grandfather-figure to all Robins

"Come back to us, you prince of Gotham."
Alfred Pennyworth (Red Hood and the Outlaws #18 [2011-2015])BatwomanBatgirl
etc.


(Red Hood and the Outlaws #29 [2016 - ])
Allies and Friends 


"One day your heart will shine brighter than the dark fury inside you. And that day will be *glorious*."
Ducra (Red Hood and the Outlaws #5 [2011-2015])
_current outlaws_

Artemis of Bana-Mighall/Artemis GraceBizarro 

"Bizarro am not perfect. But Red Him show me how and me promise to be the best Bizarro me can be."
Bizarro (Red Hood and the Outlaws #7 [2016 - ])DevourCloud NineDNADoomedBabe in ArmsMombie



_former outlaws_

Roy Harper/Arsenal

"Remember that voice you heard in your head? 'Don't do it, dummy!' That was me."
Roy Harper (Red Hood and the Outlaws Annual #2 [2016 - ])

Koriand'r/Starfire


_further allies/friends_

Ducra

"I suppose I should *congratulate* you. The first human in a thousand years to survive *the cleansing*. But I still can't tell if it's because you're worthy or just so damned stubborn."
Ducra (Red Hood and the Outlaws #5 [2011-2015])

DogBunkerWingmanSuzie Su + sistersEssenceSa'ruSimon Amal/CruxBronze Tiger

Lost during reboot


"Fact is, really, the only other sidekick I ever met was the second Robin. Everyone says bad things about him but if you ask me, he was cool."
Eddie Bloomberg (Teen Titans [2003-2011] #42)
Eddie BloombergHarvey BullockNocturnaKyle RaynerDonna TroyScarletSheila Haywood

"Jason tried ... to rescue me ... we almost ... made it ... so close ... he turned out ... to be such a ... good kid ... all his problems ... and he ... still ... turned out good ... he's ... much better ... than I deserve ... much better ... he threw ... himself ... in front ... of me ... in front of me ... he took ... the main brunt ... of the blast ... such a ... good boy ... must have ... really ... loved his ... mother ... his ... his ..."
Sheila Haywood (Batman #428)
*Enemies*

"Come on, Jason. With dad dead we only have each other. Let's not fight."
Joker's Daughter (Red Hood/Arsenal #11)
JokerBlack MaskUntitledRa's Al GhulJoker's DaughterPenguinUnderlifeSolitary


*Upcoming Appearances* (outside of _Red Hood and the Outlaws_)


(Jason Todd/Red Hood by Jason Fabok for _Three Jokers_ story)
Jason Todd in the _Young Justice_-cartoonJason Todd's fate in _Batman Beyond_Geoff Johns' _Three Jokers_ mini-seriesJason Todd in Gordon Murphy's _White Knight_ Vol. 2 or 3 (maybe)Tom Taylor's _Unkillables_ mini-seriespossible confrontation with Leviathan by Brian BendisRed Hood TV series (rumor)

*Old Thread*
Jason Todd: Robin, Arkham Knight, Red Hood Appreciation 2018 (actually 2014-2018)

*Other stuff*
The Jason Todd Reread (pre- and post-crisis)
Sales Statistics
Recommended fanfics

*DC Forum Appreciation Thread rules:*

1) No negative comments about the honoree(s) of this thread. It's an appreciation thread, not a non-appreciation one.

2) No negative discussion about any competitors of the honoree(s) of this thread. No ifs, ands, or buts. Find another non-appreciation thread to do that, just not here.

3) No negative comments about other versions of the character. For example, if you like the DCU version of Cyborg, but hate the DCnU version (or visa versa), just appreciate the earlier version and keep your comments about the latter to yourself.

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## Frontier

Happy New Year to Jason Todd and all his fans  :Cool: .

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## RedBird

Cheers Frontier! Happy New Year  :Big Grin: 

Also if I may please make a request Sergard, could I vote in favor of having 'Arkham Knight' in the title as well?
Like maybe in between 'Red Hood' and 'Damned Prince'?

It's still a very popular identity that Jason held and certainly gained the character much more notoriety.

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## RedBird

nockuth

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## KC93

Happy New Year

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## Dark_Tzitzimine

New year, new thread.

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## G-Potion

Yay new thread!  :Big Grin: 




> Cheers Frontier! Happy New Year 
> 
> Also if I may please make a request Sergard, could I vote in favor of having 'Arkham Knight' in the title as well?
> Like maybe in between 'Red Hood' and 'Damned Prince'?
> 
> *It's still a very popular identity that Jason held and certainly gained the character much more notoriety.*


Yep I second this.

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## G-Potion

> ++++++First post still under construction+++++++++
> Feel free to suggest content/information/rules that should be added to the first post of this thread.


As for rules I think we can use what other appreciation threads have been using and work from there.




> DC Forum Appreciation Thread rules:
> 
> 1) No negative comments about the honoree(s) of this thread. It's an appreciation thread, not a non-appreciation one. 
> 
> 2) No negative discussion about any competitors of the honoree(s) of this thread. No ifs, ands, or buts. Find another non-appreciation thread to do that, just not here.
> 
> 3) No negative comments about other versions of the character. For example, if you like the DCU version of Cyborg, but hate the DCnU version (or visa versa), just appreciate the earlier version and keep your comments about the latter to yourself.

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## Zaresh

@Sergard, I love that pic. Great choice. As they say in my place "¡Yes mundial, oh!" (something like: You're worldwide worthy, man)




> ++++++First post still under construction+++++++++
> Feel free to suggest content/information/rules that should be added to the first post of this thread.


Given that he's a prince, we can start by listing all his titles and honours. old fashion style (aliases, nicknames, etc). Also, a brief-but-passionate profile of Jason story and personality. We can discuss this for the shake of some discussions.
A list of recommended readings would be nice, as it would be a short informal summary. Maybe a bit more extended for where we are now.
A list of family, allies, friends and enemies would be nice, too.
And a list with links to fanfics and fanartists we would recommend, given that's something we usually share here. That way newcomers won't miss old stuff.
And like it happens with the best of the best, a few quotations about Jason for the foot of the post. In bold red.

Then we copy all that text into a pastebin and save it for next year (that will have a few modifications, I'm sure about that)

What do you think?

Oh! *Happy new year!* (again!)

Edit: seconding *@G-Pots* with the rules addition.

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## kaimaciel

> Cheers Frontier! Happy New Year 
> 
> Also if I may please make a request Sergard, could I vote in favor of having 'Arkham Knight' in the title as well?
> Like maybe in between 'Red Hood' and 'Damned Prince'?
> 
> It's still a very popular identity that Jason held and certainly gained the character much more notoriety.


Happy New Year, New Thread!

I agree. Arkham Knight should be part of the alias.

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## Sergard

> Cheers Frontier! Happy New Year 
> 
> Also if I may please make a request Sergard, could I vote in favor of having 'Arkham Knight' in the title as well?
> Like maybe in between 'Red Hood' and 'Damned Prince'?
> 
> It's still a very popular identity that Jason held and certainly gained the character much more notoriety.


I think I'll have to ask a moderator to change the title.
There is a character limitation for the thread title. Originally, I wanted to add Arkham Knight but the whole title would have been 5 characters too long.
We could shorten "Damned Prince of Gotham" to "Prince of Gotham" or "Damned Prince" if that's acceptable.

@Zaresh: That are some great ideas. I hope we all can put our heads together and work on that suggestions.

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## Talon1load

You also have the fact that another character is about to be introduced as the Arkham Knight.  It might cause some confusion?

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## Arsenal

Could always add the Arkham Knight identity somewhere to to the OP.

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## RedBird

> You also have the fact that another character is about to be introduced as the Arkham Knight.  It might cause some confusion?


Nah not really, it's still Jasons original identity and popularized by him, plus there's plenty of characters that have Robin in the title and that's certainly not causing confusion.

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## RedBird

> I think I'll have to ask a moderator to change the title.
> There is a character limitation for the thread title. Originally, I wanted to add Arkham Knight but the whole title would have been 5 characters too long.
> We could shorten "Damned Prince of Gotham" to "Prince of Gotham" or "Damned Prince" if that's acceptable.


I'm fine with 'Prince of Gotham' I guess if it means all the titles can fit.

What does everyone else think?

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## AJpyro



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## Darkcrusade25

Does anyone else think, RHATO 26 was a good way to close out the series? Might be a little bit depressing to see Jason alone again for some, but I find it fitting.

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## Zaresh

> I'm fine with 'Prince of Gotham' I guess if it means all the titles can fit.
> 
> What does everyone else think?


I am neutral for all. Whatever most people like. I do think we will have to ask a mod for changing the title, though.

The head for the post, under the picture, could be something like the following:

_Jason Peter Todd, born and risen in Lady City of Gotham's crudest part that came to become the second Robin, the Red Hood and the Wingman; the Arkham Knight of a different, grimmer universe; The Damned Prince of Gotham who suffered and died by the hand of the Clown Prince of Crime. But the young man whose sheer will and bad luck couldn't let him rest and who made his way back from the grave.

Vigilante, avenger: he fights for fairness, for setting the wrong right and for defending and protecting those who cannot fend themselves, and he will do so crossing lines into dark areas or delivering a brutal brand of justice. A daring and sassy adventurer who has traveled not only this world and the space, but other universes. A flawed man who fights not only the monsters out but also inside, who fears the ghosts of memories and suffers from them and despite that will fight back with determination. A man who can despise himself as much as he despise others; Who makes mistakes but also rights; Who can love as much as long for being loved, and hate as much as he loves. Who can lose himself in anger as well as in loneliness.

Jason Peter Todd is a complex character, product of a complex editorial history. This is his appreciation thread and this is how we come to appreciate and ramble about him._

... Or something like that. Change and undo as you wish. Remember, I'm not a native speaker.

Edit: oh, right. I just saw it in other thread. A link to the old thread in the end line of the first post could be nice.

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## RedBird

Oh! A link to the old forum would also be good on the first post  :Smile:

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## oasis1313

Happy New Year to the Prince of Gotham and All His Loyal Subjects!!!! :Smile:  :Smile:

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## G-Potion

http://dsasworld.tumblr.com/post/180822538783

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## G-Potion

> I am neutral for all. Whatever most people like. I do think we will have to ask a mod for changing the title, though.
> 
> The head for the post, under the picture, could be something like the following:
> 
> _Jason Peter Todd, born and risen in Lady City of Gotham's crudest part that came to become the second Robin, the Red Hood and the Wingman; the Arkham Knight of a different, grimmer universe; The Damned Prince of Gotham who suffered and died by the hand of the Clown Prince of Crime. But the young man whose sheer will and bad luck couldn't let him rest and who made his way back from the grave.
> 
> Vigilante, avenger: he fights for fairness, for setting the wrong right and for defending and protecting those who cannot fend themselves, and he will do so crossing lines into dark areas or delivering a brutal brand of justice. A daring and sassy adventurer who has traveled not only this world and the space, but other universes. A flawed man who fights not only the monsters out but also inside, who fears the ghosts of memories and suffers from them and despite that will fight back with determination. A man who can despise himself as much as he despise others; Who makes mistakes but also rights; Who can love as much as long for being loved, and hate as much as he loves. Who can lose himself in anger as well as in loneliness.
> 
> Jason Peter Todd is a complex character, product of a complex editorial history. This is his appreciation thread and this is how we come to appreciate and ramble about him._
> ...


Oh wow. _That_ is an amazing description.  :EEK!:

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## G-Potion

> Does anyone else think, RHATO 26 was a good way to close out the series? Might be a little bit depressing to see Jason alone again for some, but I find it fitting.


You mean RHATO 25 right? And yes, it really was. Jason going alone might have been a decree from above, but Lobdell sure closed out this chapter of Jason's life as naturally and emotionally as he could.

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## G-Potion

> I'm fine with 'Prince of Gotham' I guess if it means all the titles can fit.
> 
> What does everyone else think?


I'm good with either. Damned Prince sounds more catchy and unique to me, if we have to go with a shortened name.

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## Restingvoice

The first time I heard, read and saw Jason Todd was in Hush. I didn't know what to feel or think about him at the time because that was also the first time I heard about Lazarus Pit resurrection and that's technically wasn't him.

Hush_Jason_Todd_0001.jpg

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## oasis1313

> The first time I heard, read and saw Jason Todd was in Hush. I didn't know what to feel or think about him at the time because that was also the first time I heard about Lazarus Pit resurrection and that's technically wasn't him.
> 
> Hush_Jason_Todd_0001.jpg


Notice that Tim Dreck is a wuss who can't defend himself.

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## G-Potion

Let's not invite argument related to other characters too soon. It's New Year after all.

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## G-Potion

https://nanadrawsrobins.tumblr.com/post/181638122957

Jason's logo is hilarious. And hey, the pose actually resembles the above image.

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## Restingvoice

That first pic where the logo made a ^^ emoji... Have people started drawing Jason's new logo making different expressions yet? Besides that one, I mean.

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## Dark_Tzitzimine

https://twitter.com/dextersoy/status...164894208?s=19

Jay?

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## RedBird

> https://twitter.com/dextersoy/status...164894208?s=19
> 
> Jay?


Maybe  :Smile: 
It's kinda funny how every time Soy draws a dark haired young man, every Red Hood fan comes outta the woodwork like, 'Is that Jason???'
Though to be fair, Soy draws him often enough that there's always a good 50/50 chance it is.  :Big Grin:

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## Restingvoice

The first Jason Todd story I actually read was his New 52 debut. 

JUL110217_3._SX1280_QL80_TTD_.jpg

I heard about the controversy, of course, I just didn't care much about it. In fact, at the time I was surprised because what I knew about American comic was that they are supposed to be sexy, and Starfire was created to be sexy. So I was suprised that people were angry about it.  

Except for her nipple paste costume. That was stupid. 

Since I was a new reader, I didn't care much about the supposed inaccuracy of characterization or continuity either. I just bought it for Kenneth Rocafort's pretty art and to actually get into a Jason Todd story.

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## G-Potion

> Maybe 
> It's kinda funny how every time Soy draws a dark haired young man, every Red Hood fan comes outta the woodwork like, 'Is that Jason???'
> Though to be fair, Soy draws him often enough that there's always a good 50/50 chance it is.


That reminds me of his latest Batman art. Even I was skeptical about it being Bruce.  :/

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## RedBird

> That reminds me of his recent Batman art. Even I was skeptical about it being Bruce.  :/


To be fair, we've seen his Bruce Wayne without the cowl before, and both the face and hair in that image don't look like his previous depiction of Bruce at all, it really does look more like Jason.  :Big Grin:

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## Arsenal

> The first Jason Todd story I actually read was his New 52 debut. 
> 
> JUL110217_3._SX1280_QL80_TTD_.jpg
> 
> I heard about the controversy, of course, I just didn't care much about it. In fact, at the time I was surprised because what I knew about American comic was that they are supposed to be sexy, and Starfire was created to be sexy. So I was suprised that people were angry about it.  
> 
> Except for her nipple paste costume. That was stupid. 
> 
> Since I was a new reader, I didn't care much about the supposed inaccuracy of characterization or continuity either. I just bought it for Kenneth Rocafort's pretty art and to actually get into a Jason Todd story.


Same here. Except for the Kenneth Rocafort's pretty art part since I had no idea who any of the names on the books were.

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## RedBird

> The first Jason Todd story I actually read was his New 52 debut. 
> 
> I heard about the controversy, of course, I just didn't care much about it. In fact, at the time I was surprised because what I knew about American comic was that they are supposed to be sexy, and Starfire was created to be sexy. So I was suprised that people were angry about it.  
> 
> Except for her nipple paste costume. That was stupid. 
> 
> Since I was a new reader, I didn't care much about the supposed inaccuracy of characterization or continuity either. I just bought it for Kenneth Rocafort's pretty art and to actually get into a Jason Todd story.


Back in my uni classes, me and my friends were really some of the few people who were into comics at the time, but I came across a surprising amount of classmates who although claimed they had never read comics before or been into them whatsoever, had attempted to read when the new52 came out and told me that the only comic they really liked was Rhato. (some liked Batman too but rhato was the one consistent book among all those I asked)

I always thought it may have been because new52 rhato was one of the few dc comics that surprisingly avoided being tonally shifted into dark and edgy territories like the other comics did at the time. Especially early rhato, based on what I could gather, if you had no prior concept of these characters, I was told it just felt like a cool and fun lil road trip kinda book.

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## G-Potion

> The first Jason Todd story I actually read was his New 52 debut. 
> 
> JUL110217_3._SX1280_QL80_TTD_.jpg
> 
> I heard about the controversy, of course, I just didn't care much about it. In fact, at the time I was surprised because what I knew about American comic was that they are supposed to be sexy, and Starfire was created to be sexy. So I was suprised that people were angry about it.  
> 
> Except for her nipple paste costume. That was stupid. 
> 
> Since I was a new reader, I didn't care much about the supposed inaccuracy of characterization or continuity either. I just bought it for Kenneth Rocafort's pretty art and to actually get into a Jason Todd story.


Same. I didn't feel offended about Starfire's outfit and character at all, and that was before I even knew Starfire was supposed to not conform to human's beliefs of sexual conduct and whatnot. I found the series to be charming and character driven. Being new to comics at the time and unfamiliar with Jason's character, reading analyses from the Jason experts on tumblr was a mistake because of extreme hostility that almost made me feel guilty for liking RHATO.

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## Restingvoice

I didn't know him either. I just recognize the art because he drew Superman Doomsday War right before New 52, which I think is beautiful looking. That book was the first time I found out about his name. 

Anyway, despite New 52 being my first actual reading, I've heard about Jason Todd in the interim between Hush and New 52. Among them was Morrison's Batman and Robin, Battle for The Cowl, and of course, Under The Red Hood. 

This creates an image I have for Jason before reading it, that is an angry and violent young man who thinks killing villains is the better solution compared to Batman's code, which I like because it's such a tragic and ironic result that a Batman believer became that way because of his trauma. 

Red Hood and The Outlaws... wasn't what I expected. I know the story is about redemption, so I expected a calmer, wiser, less angry or violent Jason... what I didn't expect was all the aliens... because the image I have in mind was a street level vigilante with his own sense of justice... not... a... comedic superhero group fighting aliens and mystics. 

OCT110199_2._SX1280_QL80_TTD_.jpg

In hindsight, Starfire's presence should've been a sign that this would be more like Titans than Red Hood.

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## G-Potion

> Back in my uni classes, me and my friends were really some of the few people who were into comics at the time, but I came across a surprising amount of classmates who although claimed they had never read comics before or been into them whatsoever, *had attempted to read when the new52 came out and told me that the only comic they really liked was Rhato. (some liked Batman too but rhato was the one consistent book among all those I asked)*
> 
> I always thought it may have been because new52 rhato was one of the few dc comics that surprisingly avoided being tonally shifted into dark and edgy territories like the other comics did at the time. *Especially early rhato, based on what I could gather, if you had no prior concept of these characters, I was told it just felt like a cool and fun lil road trip kinda book.*


Basically me. I tried a bunch of books, in the end I managed to keep up with RHATO and Batman. Although I was feeling fatigue with the latter at the end.

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## RedBird

Dexter Soy



IT IS JASON!  :Big Grin:

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## G-Potion

> Dexter Soy
> 
> 
> 
> IT IS JASON!


Aha! But I thought he was crying in the earlier draft? A bit disappointed.  :Stick Out Tongue:

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## kaimaciel

> Dexter Soy
> 
> 
> 
> IT IS JASON!


I knew it! Yay!

In the first draft, he seemed to be crying.

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## Restingvoice

This issue begins with a cold open of Jason killing his way through a submarine full of smuggler before blowing it up. That scene is what I imagine a Red Hood book would be, based on what I heard about Jason. 

DEC110232_2._SX1280_QL80_TTD_.jpg

Eventually, after comparing the two, I realize that Jason screwing over criminal with his own method is what I want to read, so I dropped Outlaws. It didn't have the tone I was looking for. That said I did enjoy the Jason Todd moments depicted in this series.

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## G-Potion

> This issue begins with a cold open of Jason killing his way through a submarine full of smuggler before blowing it up. That scene is what I imagine a Red Hood book would be, based on what I heard about Jason. 
> 
> Eventually, after comparing the two, I realize that Jason screwing over criminal with his own method is what I want to read, so I dropped Outlaws. It didn't have the tone I was looking for. That said I did enjoy the Jason Todd moments depicted in this series.


That's why I wanted a solo book for Jason so much. As much as I love the dynamics between the Outlaws of both series, it's hard to have Jason stay in his element and do what he does best when the team has some serious powerhouses. Even Roy was often much more effective than Jason with his inventions. 

This current direction on the other hand is constantly showing us a capable Jason. But, some critics are already missing the team interactions and heartfelt moments. I'm fine with it. I think those moments will come very soon, and if not, well you gain some you lose some. In the end each series will contribute to the bigger picture that is Jason's character exploration and development. I have to give it to Lobdell though. He's been on the books for years and still manages to make it fresh with ideas.

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## Zaresh

> Oh wow. _That_ is an amazing description.


Thanks! So... if @Serg wants to add it, I will feel very proud of it being added to the initial post. Next step would be the recommended reads list.




> That first pic where the logo made a ^^ emoji... Have people started drawing Jason's new logo making different expressions yet? Besides that one, I mean.


Hilarious. I want this to be a thing. We need new memes.




> Same. I didn't feel offended about Starfire's outfit and character at all, and that was before I even knew Starfire was supposed to not conform to human's beliefs of sexual conduct and whatnot. I found the series to be charming and character driven. Being new to comics at the time and unfamiliar with Jason's character, reading analyses from the Jason experts on tumblr was a mistake because of extreme hostility that almost made me feel guilty for liking RHATO.





> I didn't know him either. I just recognize the art because he drew Superman Doomsday War right before New 52, which I think is beautiful looking. That book was the first time I found out about his name. 
> 
> Anyway, despite New 52 being my first actual reading, I've heard about Jason Todd in the interim between Hush and New 52. Among them was Morrison's Batman and Robin, Battle for The Cowl, and of course, Under The Red Hood. 
> 
> This creates an image I have for Jason before reading it, that is an angry and violent young man who thinks killing villains is the better solution compared to Batman's code, which I like because it's such a tragic and ironic result that a Batman believer became that way because of his trauma. 
> 
> Red Hood and The Outlaws... wasn't what I expected. I know the story is about redemption, so I expected a calmer, wiser, less angry or violent Jason... what I didn't expect was all the aliens... because the image I have in mind was a street level vigilante with his own sense of justice... not... a... comedic superhero group fighting aliens and mystics. 
> 
> OCT110199_2._SX1280_QL80_TTD_.jpg
> ...


Heh. My first time with Jason as a character was the animated movie of Under The Hood (I cannot remember how I got to that movie, actually. I hadn't watch anything Batman animated since Beyond)—Well, technically, I read The Cult long time ago, but to be honest, I didn't remember much at that point and didn't knew it was Jason. I did knew Jason existed, or rather, was aware that there has been more than one Robin. DC Comics here in my country weren't a thing you can find easily by that time, except in LCSs (which aren't common), bookstores (that only had mainstream comics by then) or Libraries (which to this day only collect hardcover books because preservation issues, and that limits the range of comics in their collections (well, for a while Vertigo was easy to find in kiosks and bookstores: as easy as it was finding paperbacks and issues from Marvel). I did read a lot of Vertigo books). That's how I read The Cult: in a hardcover edition from my local Library). After watching the movie, I went looking for the original comic, and read chronologically afterwards (following a guide). By that time, we were still in New 52, and I had started to read comics from the main DCU thanks to internet and a new publisher that gained the rights for them. I have had already read Grayson (which was the first DC thing I had read in years, after Hellblazer and Transmetropolitan) and thanks to other media, was slightly aware of who was Kori (I didn't know Roy). Because I really come from the Fantasy fandom and I didn't know her that much, it didn't bothered me more than, say, Diana's costume. Armour for females just tends to be ridiculous and impractical in fiction (which is a pity, because proper armours are cool and can be very sexy too. Just, you know, bulky). Also, there is nothing wrong with looking sexy. The problem is if you are only that: a sexy object. She developed into a warrior princess with a conflict and a personality, and that's more than what we had for a lot of female characters until the 00's. So I can deal with a messy start if it grows into something I will not dislike.

To be honest, I was more annoyed by how wordy the text was, and how much it repeated some statements. But that was for, like, five issues. And I'm all for putting the characters I like under different settings and living through different kind of stories. I love pulp, and you can guess how much I liked the evil ancient monks and space opera shift from the street level approach (which to be honest, after what they tried with Countdown, wasn't all that out of the blue).

----------


## Zaresh

> Dexter Soy
> 
> 
> 
> IT IS JASON!


DARN.
I hope he gets back to draw Jason in some other book at some point this new year.




> That's why I wanted a solo book for Jason so much. As much as I love the dynamics between the Outlaws of both series, it's hard to have Jason stay in his element and do what he does best when the team has some serious powerhouses. Even Roy was often much more effective than Jason with his inventions. 
> 
> This current direction on the other hand is constantly showing us a capable Jason. But, some critics are already missing the team interactions and heartfelt moments. I'm fine with it. I think those moments will come very soon, and if not, well you gain some you lose some. *In the end each series will contribute to the bigger picture that is Jason's character exploration and development.* I have to give it to Lobdell though. He's been on the books for years and still manages to make it fresh with ideas.


This is why I like those shifts. It helps in making the character grow and adding him some more history, and it helps us see more how he is under different dynamics and situations.

----------


## Rise

I feel personally attacked that Arkham Knight isn't on the title....

Anyway, congratulations on the new thread, guys! I catch up with RH and decided to reread 21-29 which improved the current arc so much and made realize how unfair to judge a story before it finished (I have to give it to Lobdell for all hints he left here and there). So, from now on I'm not going to comment on single issue and instead wait for the arc to finish to get the whole picture before I give my thoughts.

See you guys on February!

----------


## RedBird

I think it seems quite a few people here want '*Arkham Knight*' in the title  :Big Grin: 

Final decisions, to make room as Sergard mentioned, should 'Damned Prince of Gotham' be shortened to 'Damned Prince' or 'Prince of Gotham'?




_Jason Todd: Robin, Red Hood, Arkham Knight, Damned Prince Appreciation 2019_


OR


_Jason Todd: Robin, Red Hood, Arkham Knight, Prince of Gotham Appreciation 2019_





I think Prince of Gotham _looks_ better, but what do you guys think?

----------


## Rise

> _Jason Todd: Robin, Red Hood, Arkham Knight, Prince of Gotham Appreciation 2019_


I vote for this.

----------


## RedBird

akimao

----------


## G-Potion

> I think it seems quite a few people here want '*Arkham Knight*' in the title 
> 
> Final decisions, to make room as Sergard mentioned, should 'Damned Prince of Gotham' be shortened to 'Damned Prince' or 'Prince of Gotham'?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Jason Todd: Robin, Red Hood, Arkham Knight, Damned Prince Appreciation 2019_
> 
> ...



I'm just a tiny little bit partial to the first one. Happy with either.

----------


## G-Potion

> akimao


Hoo that's a very demonic take. Cool!  :Big Grin:

----------


## Sergard

Theoretically we could also shorten "appreciation" to "app" or "appr'n" or something similar instead.

----------


## Zaresh

> Theoretically we could also shorten "appreciation" to "app" or "appr'n" or something similar instead.


That sounds like the wiser choice. App. should be enough. I mean, you cannot mistake it for some new, awesome application named Jason Todd, right?  :Cool:

----------


## G-Potion

Thanks for the work on thread opener @Sergard. It's coming along nicely!

----------


## RedBird

> Theoretically we could also shorten "appreciation" to "app" or "appr'n" or something similar instead.


It's a no from me, app makes it sound like a download for my phone, XD 'appreciation' just has a nicer ring to it.

Me and Rise, both like Prince of Gotham

G is slightly more partial to 'Damned Prince' but is fine with 'Prince of Gotham' as well

And I believe Zaresh was neutral to both.

----------


## G-Potion

So if Jason's going business entrepreneur, what do you guys think can be his possible brand names? 

(@Zaresh he'd better have an app for his business :P)

----------


## Sergard

> Thanks for the work on thread opener @Sergard. It's coming along nicely!


My pleasure  :Smile:  Although, so far, Zaresh did the most work by writing the introduction. I'm only copy-pasting stuff. (I hope I will be more helpful on the weekend when I have more free time.)

----------


## Zaresh

> Thanks for the work on thread opener @Sergard. It's coming along nicely!


Yeah, it's looking great actually :3.

On a side note, when I was re-reading the op text, I found that I lost an "s" in the way.




> as much as he despise others


... should be:




> as much as he despise*s* others


Now, on the recommended reads, my candidates:

*As Robin:*Batman: The Cult (post-COIE].A Death in the Family (post-COIE]

*As Red Hood:*Batman: Under the Hood (pre-FP)Red Hood: Lost Days (pre-FP)Red Hood and the Outlaws vol. 1 and 2 (New 52)Red Hood and the Outlaws vol. 1 to 4 (Rebirth]

*Other Media:*Batman: Under the Red Hood (animation movie)Batman: Arkham Knight (videogame)

I don't know about pre-COIE comics a lot, and I would love to add more stuff besides something from then, but I don't feel confident about. So as before, feel free to add and subtract as you feel.

----------


## Zaresh

Yep, like *@RedBird* says, I don't mind either way about the name.




> So if Jason's going business entrepreneur, what do you guys think can be his possible brand names? 
> 
> (@Zaresh he'd better have an app for his business :P)


You know, I wonder if we will see that henchmen app again when Jason comes back to Gotham to make Penguin more miserable.

Edit: Names, names... What about "Big Bad Wolf"?




> My pleasure  Although, so far, Zaresh did the most work by writing the introduction. I'm only copy-pasting stuff. (I hope I will be more helpful on the weekend when I have more free time.)


Hey, thanks! But really, it's looking really good. It already looked really good before we added that text.

----------


## G-Potion

> I feel personally attacked that Arkham Knight isn't on the title....
> 
> Anyway, congratulations on the new thread, guys! I catch up with RH and decided to reread 21-29 which improved the current arc so much and made realize how unfair to judge a story before it finished (I have to give it to Lobdell for all hints he left here and there). So, from now on I'm not going to comment on single issue and instead wait for the arc to finish to get the whole picture before I give my thoughts.
> 
> See you guys on February!


I get where you're coming from, but as Lobdell once said that he tried to make an issue enjoyable on its own, I think it's fair to give our thought on what we currently have, so long as we know that it's not the whole picture yet and are willing to reexamine later, like you did. A month is a long wait, it's normal to get anxious sometimes. But I think your comments were pretty reasonable anyway. Gonna miss you @Rise!

----------


## G-Potion

> Yep, I don't mind either way about the name.
> 
> 
> 
> You know, I wonder if we will see that henchmen app again when Jason comes back to Gotham to make Penguin more miserable.


Hell yeah at the henchmen app. Also, does Penguin have any penguins left? Jason needs a pet.

----------


## Zaresh

> Hell yeah at the henchmen app. Also, does Penguin have any penguins left? Jason needs a pet.


XDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Oh, my lord. Now we know WHY Jason comes back.
He wants his penguin!

----------


## kaimaciel

_Jason Todd: Robin, Red Hood, Arkham Knight, Prince of Gotham Appreciation 2019_

I vote on this one! That's what Alfred called him as well.

----------


## RedBird

> _Jason Todd: Robin, Red Hood, Arkham Knight, Prince of Gotham Appreciation 2019_
> 
> I vote on this one! That's what Alfred called him as well.


Yes it was, it's kinda why I'm more partial to that one as well, it came from a more endearing place.

And well, I think with that vote, its settled.



New title:


*Jason Todd: Robin, Red Hood, Arkham Knight, Prince of Gotham Appreciation 2019*




Also Sergard, along with the change of title could you perhaps add a link to the previous appreciation thread as well? Thank you

----------


## KC93

> Yes it was, it's kinda why I'm more partial to that one as well, it came from a more endearing place.
> 
> And well, I think with that vote, its settled.
> 
> 
> 
> New title:
> 
> 
> *Jason Todd: Robin, Red Hood, Arkham Knight, Prince of Gotham Appreciation 2019*


I love that moment with Alfred. And that thread title sounds awesome.

----------


## JasonTodd428

Happy NEW YEAR and glad to see a new thread too. Hope everyone here had great holiday season. 




> That sounds like the wiser choice. App. should be enough. I mean, you cannot mistake it for some new, awesome application named Jason Todd, right?


What's wrong with a new awesome application called Jason Todd?  :Stick Out Tongue:  Anyway Zaresh that made me laugh so thanks for that.

----------


## Zaresh

> Happy NEW YEAR and glad to see a new thread too. Hope everyone here had great holiday season. 
> 
> 
> 
> What's wrong with a new awesome application called Jason Todd?  Anyway Zaresh that made me laugh so thanks for that.


You're welcome! Happy new year to you too.

----------


## Restingvoice

> To be honest, I was more annoyed by how wordy the text was, and how much it repeated some statements. But that was for, like, five issues. And I'm all for putting the characters I like under different settings and living through different kind of stories. I love pulp, and you can guess how much I liked the evil ancient monks and space opera shift from the street level approach (which to be honest, after what they tried with Countdown, wasn't all that out of the blue).


The wordiness for me came later. It didn't really bother me that much at first, but as Lobdell began writing more books... he wrote Red Hood, Teen Titans, Superman and Action Comics at that time... it became really noticeable. 

Anyway, here's one of my favorite Rocafort cover... Rocover... the homage to Star Wars.

JUN120195_1._SX1280_QL80_TTD_.jpg

----------


## JasonTodd428

> The wordiness for me came later. It didn't really bother me that much at first, but as Lobdell began writing more books... he wrote Red Hood, Teen Titans, Superman and Action Comics at that time... it became really noticeable. 
> 
> Anyway, here's one of my favorite Rocafort cover... Rocover... the homage to Star Wars.
> 
> JUN120195_1._SX1280_QL80_TTD_.jpg


That is my favorite RHATO cover period. I wish someone would make that one a poster because I'd hang it in my new game room.

----------


## G-Potion

Hey glad to have you back @JasonTodd428!  :Big Grin:

----------


## JasonTodd428

> Hey glad to have you back @JasonTodd428!


Thanks. Sorry that I dropped off the face of the Earth like that but the past few months have been rather hectic for me and I haven't had a lot of down time. I moved into a new house at the end of November but things are starting to settle down now. Hopefully this means I'll be on the forum more.

I hope everyone had a nice holiday, whichever one you may celebrate.

Also that was some cute fanart you guys posted on the old thread.

----------


## Zaresh

It's great to have you guys back, even if Rise doesn't stay for commenting the monthy issues in the end.

----------


## Lirica

Happy 2019!

New Jason Todd fan here. I haven't read any comics involving him (or any of the bat family yet now that I think about it), but I have watched UtRH recently.

I did have a vague idea of who he is and supposedly the parts I liked of Tim from TNBA was based off of Jason?? It wasn't until I was reading a fanfic with him in it (he wasn't even the focus character, but I loved him the most) that I got interested in him.

I'd like to read his time as robin. I'm not sure if there is a book that is all about his robin run, but if anyone could point out some trades that have him as robin (aside from DitF) that'd be great! Thanks!

----------


## Zaresh

Edit: Welcome *@Lirica!* About Jason's time as Robin, I think there are some collected trades, like "Batman: Second Chances", and then there are classic stories like "The Cult" and "A Death in the Family". The problem is with pre-Crisis on Infinite Earths, I think, because I don't know if they have been collected in paper. Someone else said something about it in our previous thread. I hope someone else can reply with more detailed info.

-

Let's give the topic more breath. We still have a long wait until #30 is released.

Coming back to the track of completing the initial post, now that we have cleared the title issue (I saw a nice new additions: good idea @Serg). The recommendations I posted in the previous page. What do you guys think? Need something else in? Something out?




> *As Robin:*Batman: The Cult (post-COIE].A Death in the Family (post-COIE]
> 
> *As Red Hood:*Batman: Under the Hood (pre-FP)Red Hood: Lost Days (pre-FP)Red Hood and the Outlaws vol. 1 and 2 (New 52)Red Hood and the Outlaws vol. 1 to 4 (Rebirth]
> 
> *Other Media:*Batman: Under the Red Hood (animation movie)Batman: Arkham Knight (videogame)


For the "*Upcoming appearances*", we know he will be a lead in Johns' Three Jokers mini (whenever it gets out). And he might appear in Teen Titans #26, but that's this month issue, so I guess it's not really worth the mention. That's all I know. Dark has a good record about what Jason will or will not be featured in; maybe he knows some other book he will be in. Or you guys. I honestly cannot recall anything else.

For the "*Enemies*" category, The Joker, Black Mask, Penguin, Ra's Al Ghul... I dunno. The Untitled, too, I guess. And Underlife, now. I have a problem with this category, because he really needs more villains for his own. Lobdell is trying to fix it, but really, if you want to make Jason his own hero, he needs his own villains (and supporting cast, which is something that's it's being fixed as well). Of course you can always write great stories borrowing someone else's villain, and can even end up making them more memorables as your rogues than as the original hero's: but it's had to see that happening, I think.

"*Family, Allies and Friends*", here I would put The Batfamily, Roy Harper, Koriand'r, Clone Bizarro and Artemis. Those are the current ones. For past allies, Donna and Kyle? Talia? Should we put someone from his days as Robin? This applies for every section. It's the period I know of the least.

----------


## Sergard

> Happy 2019!
> 
> New Jason Todd fan here. I haven't read any comics involving him (or any of the bat family yet now that I think about it), but I have watched UtRH recently.
> 
> I did have a vague idea of who he is and supposedly the parts I liked of Tim from TNBA was based off of Jason?? It wasn't until I was reading a fanfic with him in it (he wasn't even the focus character, but I loved him the most) that I got interested in him.
> 
> I'd like to read his time as robin. I'm not sure if there is a book that is all about his robin run, but if anyone could point out some trades that have him as robin (aside from DitF) that'd be great! Thanks!


Welcome to the family ;-)

Which fanfic did you read? I'm always interested in some nice fanfic with Jason in it.
I hope you don't think it's lazy but I've copied a comment from the old appreciation thread about Robin Jason:




> Not really a collection about Jason but they have now TPBs that cover the era:
> - Batman Second Chances and Batman: The Caped Crusader Vol. 1 cover all his whole post crisis appearances in "Batman" apart from DITF and One Annual
> - Batman: The Dark Knight Detective Vol. 1 seems to cover his appearances in TEC (I'm still waiting for my copy to arrive, and the info what is in the book is a little contradictory).
> - with DITF and the Cult on top you cover everything apart from his few appearances outside of the Batman books


Are you familiar with the terms "pre-crisis" and "post-crisis"?

----------


## JasonTodd428

> Happy 2019!
> 
> New Jason Todd fan here. I haven't read any comics involving him (or any of the bat family yet now that I think about it), but I have watched UtRH recently.
> 
> I did have a vague idea of who he is and supposedly the parts I liked of Tim from TNBA was based off of Jason?? It wasn't until I was reading a fanfic with him in it (he wasn't even the focus character, but I loved him the most) that I got interested in him.
> 
> I'd like to read his time as robin. I'm not sure if there is a book that is all about his robin run, but if anyone could point out some trades that have him as robin (aside from DitF) that'd be great! Thanks!


Welcome to the family Lirica. Others have already mentioned where you can find some of the Post-Crisis stories with Jason as Robin. Sadly none of the Pre-Crisis stories have been collected as yet. If you are interested in the Pre-Crisis stories though you can find them pretty cheaply on Comixology. If I remember rightly they are .99 cents an issue.

----------


## Restingvoice

I didn't notice this before but he has Arkham games Nightwing glow sticks. 

1dbf951714f58e75751ec85329b391d2._SX1280_QL80_TTD_.jpg

Also, Hello Pillow was one of the best Jason tics that fandom just run with it.

----------


## G-Potion

> Happy 2019!
> 
> New Jason Todd fan here.


Hello and welcome to the family *@Lirica*! It's cool that you became interested in Jason through fanfics. May I ask which ones did it for you?  :Big Grin:

----------


## G-Potion

> I didn't notice this before but he has Arkham games Nightwing glow sticks. 
> 
> 1dbf951714f58e75751ec85329b391d2._SX1280_QL80_TTD_.jpg
> 
> Also, Hello Pillow was one of the best Jason tics that fandom just run with it.


Heh, Hello Pillow was great. And what a time to post this because they're about to fight again soon in TT. This month I guess?

----------


## Zaresh

> Heh, Hello Pillow was great. And what a time to post this because they're about to fight again soon in TT. This month I guess?


Yep. January's issue(s? I think it involves both TT and RHatO).

Edit: @Serg, those quotations in the initial post are perfect!

----------


## G-Potion

> Yep. January's issue(s? I think it involves both TT and RHatO).


You mean collaboration or at least correlation between the two? I really hope so.

----------


## G-Potion

Oh and those quotes are very appropriately chosen *@Sergard*!  :Big Grin:

----------


## Arsenal

> Heh, Hello Pillow was great. And what a time to post this because they're about to fight again soon in TT. This month I guess?


They definitely fighting again in the TT Annual. Hood is likely to make an appearance in TT 26 (though likely in a very limited capacity) but that's still to be determined.

----------


## Zaresh

> You mean collaboration or at least correlation between the two? I really hope so.


Correlation, not quite as much as a crossover, but by the solicits, they sounded related somehow.

----------


## Lirica

Wow! Thank you all so much for your warm welcomes!  :Smile: 




> snip for space


Thank you so much for what info you could give me! I'll look into that trade and "The Cult". I'm already aware of DitF. It was definitely one of the first things that came up when I did a lil bit of research.




> snip for space


The fic is called 'Blood in the Water' by Misha Berry over on ao3. It seems fairly popular on there, so maybe you've read it? If not, aside from mentions, I don't think Jason shows up until chapter 15ish (it has been a few months since I've read it myself). It's more Tim focused.

I don't think it's lazy at all! That's really helpful, thank you! I didn't think to search through the old appreciation thread. Also, congrats to all of you on getting it to 1000 pages before it was closed.  :Big Grin: 

I know that those terms are used in reference to what took place before and after Crisis on Infinite Earths because that event rebooted the universe, I think. I also know Jason was completely different before this event versus after. Is that about the gist of it? Did I miss anything? It has been about a year since I ventured into the main DC universe (mostly stuck to Vertigo prior to that), so I hope I did a decent job getting a general idea of all eras of DC prior to joining here.




> snip for space


Shame that none of Jason's pre-crisis stories are collected in trade, but at least Comixology has them! Thanks!




> snip for space


As I mentioned above, 'Blood in the Water' by Misha Berry was how I really got into Jason. I've heard it may not the best way, since fanfics might paint Jason a certain way that is really only fanon, but I definitely don't regret it!  :Big Grin:  Started reading more batman fanfics after that (mostly about Jason). My favorites are 'Help' and its sequel 'Harm' by Loxare and a fic with Constantine and Jason meeting because Jason came back to life able to see ghosts (the name and author escape me at the moment).

----------


## Zaresh

@Lirica, if I find some time this evening, I'll try recollecting some of my faves from AO3 with short sumaries (like I did last summer in the previous thread). I'll take that opportunity to list a few writers in there for the OP post section too, with some details about what they usually write about. I think a lot of us here really enjoy fanfics, so we have some feedback about fics in here from time to time  :Cool: .

Edit: also, off topic, but I'm going to guess you are also a Constantine fan like myself. If you enjoy the urban fantasy genre, I can especifically look for works on it.

----------


## Restingvoice

Even though I quit Outlaws early out of different taste I came back again for the Death of The Family tie-in. Big mistake. It turned out to be my breaking point.

There are things I like and dislike about the new origin. Seeing baby Jason trying to help his overdosed mother is awe-inducing, but the script, where he said the happiest moment in his life was when he was born, feels too extreme, like trying too hard to attract readers sympathy. That's unneeded. That scene in the bathroom is already effective. 

798200c762f7cef01388545373a69209._SX1280_QL80_TTD_.jpg

Overall though it was fine. I like the details. Other origins tend to only depict one moment but we got Jason's whole childhood. I also don't really care between stealing tire or medicine. The awful came next when Joker said he arranged all his life, but even there I didn't think too much because it's Joker. He's 99.9% likely to be lying.

----------


## Lirica

> @Lirica, if I find some time this evening, I'll try recollecting some of my faves from AO3 with short sumaries (like I did last summer in the previous thread). I'll take that opportunity to list a few writers in there for the OP post section too, with some details about what they usually write about. I think a lot of us here really enjoy fanfics, so we have some feedback about fics in here from time to time .
> 
> Edit: also, off topic, but I'm going to guess you are also a Constantine fan like myself. If you enjoy the urban fantasy genre, I can especifically look for works on it.


Sure, if you have the time, that'd be wonderful!  :Smile: 

Yup, I am and I do enjoy that genre!

----------


## G-Potion

> As I mentioned above, 'Blood in the Water' by Misha Berry was how I really got into Jason. *I've heard it may not the best way, since fanfics might paint Jason a certain way that is really only fanon, but I definitely don't regret it!*  Started reading more batman fanfics after that (mostly about Jason). My favorites are 'Help' and its sequel 'Harm' by Loxare and a fic with Constantine and Jason meeting because Jason came back to life able to see ghosts (the name and author escape me at the moment).


Fics are great! When it comes to Jason, aside from the usual pairing fics, he has a good number of quality gen fics that you don't often see with other DC characters. On the other hand though, also when it comes to Jason as far as I know, I've regrettably stopped reading from a few authors not because of their writing nor portrayal of Jason but rather I feel they've become too attached to their own ideas that they're eager to criticize canon materials, with no patience to see the big picture nor sympathy to comic writers who have to work under creative constraint. But anyway, 'Help' and 'Harm' are great!  :Big Grin:

----------


## Jackalope89

The Hopes for a Bastard series is a Jason and Raven centric fanfic that combines the Teen Titans animated series (Jason as Red X) with elements from Rebirth, Young Justice animated series, and a few others. It does have graphic language, but an interesting read. Not to mention, an interesting take on the Bat Family as well. Its by BluBooThalassophile and begins with https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1236138...e-Back-My-Mind.

----------


## Zaresh

> The Hopes for a Bastard series is a Jason and Raven centric fanfic that combines the Teen Titans animated series (Jason as Red X) with elements from Rebirth, Young Justice animated series, and a few others. It does have graphic language, but an interesting read. Not to mention, an interesting take on the Bat Family as well. Its by BluBooThalassophile and begins with https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1236138...e-Back-My-Mind.


I don't want to sound rude, or antagonistic, and I'm not implying is a bad fic, or even so-so; just for clearing my statement.

I'm not a fan of how it's written, to be honest: too much written like some kid cartoon-esque script, and not very subtle. But I guess it's entertaining (I dropped it in the first 4 hours of reading, so definitely not my taste). On the other hand, has a lot of followers and is long.

I'll post some of my list too. We can discuss fics for a while \o/.

Also, it's a pity that Harm is discontinued :/. I wonder if they will be back to continued it this year.

----------


## Sergard

Question about Injustice vs. Masters of the Universe #6:

*spoilers:*
Is Jason now part of the Justice League? And isn't that like a kiss of death because every other Robin, who was spatially close to Batman/Bruce, has died so far.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Zaresh

So hands at work. This is the *recommended fanfic authors* list. *@Sergard*, I guess that, instead of copypasting the whole list, it would be better to link the post? I can edit the list with whatever you guys want to add or we can put il all in a pastebin link.

It's a list of authors I've looked into that write fics *featuring Jason in a relevant role*. I'm going to use* AO3* links because that's what I use for finding new reads; and also because, unlike FFN or Tumblr, it allows mature and even explicit content. *Be aware*, precisely, that *the site allows mature and explicit content* too (allows very dubious stuff too). It has a neat system for warnings and triggerings, but not few writers choose to not use those tags. My advice is, if it doesn't make clear in the four graphic tags which target or any other trait the work depicts, read the actual text tags. If it doesn't include descriptive tags, just pass and look for some other work.

I'll try my best to avoid pure porn writers. I mean, there will be writers with explicit content, but at least I'll try to contain them to writers that write plot  with explicit content (iykwim). If you guys want to add more, as usual with all my posts, feel free. All lists are more well rounded after some kind of discussion, and this one is obviously subjective. Last warning: the order of this list is not based in any criteria.

*+ BluBooThalassophile* 
As @Jackalope89 has mentioned, this author writes a series of fanfics based on Teen Titans (the cartoon show) called "Hopes for a Bastard" https://archiveofourown.org/series/958770
Fluff, teen drama, action and some mystery. Jason Todd has a prominent role as Red X. General ships. It's marked as "Mature", but apart from some heavy use of violence and some foul language, it's Teen targeted imho (well, I didn't read further than a few hours in, but it didn't seem more "mature" than average PEGI 16 stuff. But maybe that's because I'm from Europe).

*+ chibi_nightowl* 
Enjoyable readings in style and plot (even if it lacks in planification sometimes). It's not unusual to see them partnering with other writers. Genre variety, but does a lot of murder mystery, fantasy and urban fantasy. Very heavy Jason/Tim shipping.
A lot of mature and explicit content, but they do write many Teen and Gen works too. Some of the mature targeted works are honestly very entertaining if you can deal with the shipping (some of the explicit targeted too, if you can read nsfw works). like their versions of Jason and Tim, and sometimes I found very original ideas behind their works.

*+ GoAwayOlivia* 
Fluff and angst, lots and lots of familial drama. Mostly general ships, if they do have any at all; they write family dynamics. And mostly Teen targeted works.

*+ redtruthed* 
A writer that joined the site recently but already has a bunch of nice works. Lots of drama, lots of angst; mostly fond of the "Jason reconnects with his family" storyline. Gen stuff aimed for the Teen audience. I disagree in opinions towards the canon; but further than that, an enjoyable read.

*+ CloakedSparrow* 
It's a bit of a mix bag with mostly one shots, but has a decent track on featuring Jason in a main role. Mostly fluff and drama, lots of domestic stuff. Aimed to Teen audience, but also has some Mature targeted works. No shipping and in general centered towards familial bonding. It's enjoyable if you're into that kind of stories.

*+ InsaneTrollLogic* 
They may not be a BatFic writer, but they have written the best piece I've read in AO3 up to this day: "Two Dead Birds" https://archiveofourown.org/works/13...pters/29818341 
And their other bat-works aren't bad either. Jason has often a prominent or main role in them.
Aimed to Teen and Mature readers, a mix bag of genres and themes. No shipping, gen and familial relationships and a faithful take on the characters.

*+ LananiA3O* 
They have written the longest Arkham games fanfic series so far, and said series has Arkham Knight Jason as the main character: "Batman: Arkham Compendium" https://archiveofourown.org/series/559207
Tons of hurt, angst, drama, action and violence; but also a fair amount of mystery and fluff. Pretty enjoyable read if you don't mind the angstiness, even if it comes a bit too over the top at times. The characters are also a bit out of character, but it's not too distracting.
Their works outside Arkham Compendium are nice reads too, like "Gotham Banksy" https://archiveofourown.org/works/13...pters/31443330 (his writer has been recommended by @JasonTodd428 as well).

*+ ithoughtslashmeanthorror* 
That alias always makes me smile.
Now, about their work, they are writing a long term series, with multiple long works, centered towards their version of the Batverse (a mix of Fox' Gotham, the Arkham games and the actual comics): "See how deep the bullet lies" https://archiveofourown.org/series/922881
It's pretty good and it's mostly about Bruce and Jason healing and bonding as father and son. Lots of drama and angst, and delivers some heavy violence from time to time; but a Teen targeted series overall.

*+ GavotteAndGigue* 
Cosmic and supernatural horror, angst, hurt and some fluff and confort. Mature, definitely mature and explicit targeted because violence and sexual content. But on the other hand, neat stories that play with what the comics canonically give us.
This author is one of the few I've seen using the New 52 additions to Jason's background with the All-Caste and all that. It's usually heavy in the Jason/Dick shipping, and I'm not particularly fond of their Dick; but it's a good read nevertheless. Especially their horror stories, like the "Dreamscape" series https://archiveofourown.org/series/737748
or their last work (about to be finished soon), which is, by the way, freaking good (and has very tame shipping elements so far): "Phantasmagoria" https://archiveofourown.org/works/16...pters/38584187

*+ @Lysical* usually writes with the current cast of Outlaws in mind, and likes to mix in Green Lantern stuff. They write drama, familial dynamics, adventure and fluff. Their works are aimed for teen readers, and are mostly depicting gen relationships (this writer has been recommended by @Sergard as well).

*+ @Silver Spider* has been recommended by @Aaahz: "[Silver Spider] had a few good ones (basically an AU were Talia acts more like her classic version)"

*+ Comicfan*
This writer has been brought by @The Cape. Lots of short works, mostly teen and general targeted. Main ship is Jason/Artemis. Works are fine, not exceptional but nice reads if you want something simple and with melodrama. A good option for safe, straight only drama works.

And that's all from me. I may have skip some authors because either I don't know about their work or I don't see them fitting, or I haven't read much from them. As I said, this list is open to suggestions.

I'll let the "stand alone works" recommendations (the ones for @Lirica) for the next time  :Smile:  (I just expended about two and half hours writing that, wow).

----------


## Sergard

Sorry, I'm too tired to write long and informative texts like Zaresh. So my fanfic recommendations are

+ Lysical (especially "Retrograde Motion")
writes a lot of Jason-centric stories without mature/explicit content, very "sweet" stuff with lots of interaction with the outlaws and the batfamily

+ whatomen's "Jason Todd - Collector of Strays"
On-going fanfic with over 60 chapters about Jason adopting animals and children while trying to avoid the batfamily

+ Pinestorm's "Bad Times for Todd" series
Basically, Jason is sick and the batfamily wants to help him.

+ Kai_Maciel's "Outsider"
Jason's reaction to Bruce having a movie night with "the whole family"

----------


## Zaresh

> Sorry, I'm too tired to write long and informative texts like Zaresh. So my fanfic recommendations are
> 
> + Lysical (especially "Retrograde Motion")
> writes a lot of Jason-centric stories without mature/explicit content, very "sweet" stuff with lots of interaction with the outlaws and the batfamily
> 
> + whatomen's "Jason Todd - Collector of Strays"
> On-going fanfic with over 60 chapters about Jason adopting animals and children while trying to avoid the batfamily
> 
> + Pinestorm's "Bad Times for Todd" series
> ...


Oh, I take note of those last two (the first two, I already have them bookmarked  :Big Grin: ).
We may just better link the posts we are writing in the section, definitely.

Edit: Oh, now that I see the OP post again; @Sergard, it's growing beautifully. Congrats, again  :Smile: .

----------


## Arsenal

From Now On, Autumn of Life & Jason Todd: Not So Outlaw (I think... might be wrong on that one) are ones I enjoy.

----------


## JasonTodd428

I am pretty picky with regard to fanfiction but here are a few of my favorite writer and stories:

*LananiA3O*: I've really enjoyed their Arkham games fanfiction. Not only is it a very extensive body of work but its also really well written. 

*Little_Wayward_Bird*: I'm really enjoying "From Now On" It's a great story about Jason moving on from all his sh*t and finding a good, happy life for himself in spite of all the trauma he's gone through. It's also extremely well written and I've completely falling in love with the characters there. 

*redtruthed*:All of their stories are good. I especially like "Show Me Yesterday, For I Can't Find Today"

*ofVellichor* "Autumn of Life" is another story that I really enjoy and yet another one that finds Jason moving on with his life.

*Raberba girl (Raberba_girl)* "Birds Who Smile" is a particular favorite of mine. It's an Dark Nights:Metal AU story about Bruce taking in the Batman Who Laughs Robins. It really enjoyable. (Jason isn't the main focus for it although it does appear the next story arc in it will be featuring him more heavily. I just thought I would suggest it anyway because its a really good story and I'm a sucker for AU stories.)

----------


## Jackalope89

> I don't want to sound rude, or antagonistic, and I'm not implying is a bad fic, or even so-so; just for clearing my statement.
> 
> I'm not a fan of how it's written, to be honest: too much written like some kid cartoon-esque script, and not very subtle. But I guess it's entertaining (I dropped it in the first 4 hours of reading, so definitely not my taste). On the other hand, has a lot of followers and is long.
> 
> I'll post some of my list too. We can discuss fics for a while \o/.
> 
> Also, it's a pity that Harm is discontinued :/. I wonder if they will be back to continued it this year.


To each their own. Plus, it does incorporate things like the Outlaws, Damian and Jon shenanigans, actual alternate universe confrontations, and characters getting their due.

Another I've come across is The Price of Revenge, by IndigoElle. In short, instead of directly targeting Bruce like in UTRH, Jason decides to manipulate his replacement.

----------


## okiedokiewo

> Question about Injustice vs. Masters of the Universe #6:
> 
> *spoilers:*
> Is Jason now part of the Justice League? And isn't that like a kiss of death because every other Robin, who was spatially close to Batman/Bruce, has died so far.
> *end of spoilers*


That's what I got from that panel.

----------


## Lirica

Wow, so many recs! I've seen some of these stories and have heard of a few of these authors, but for the most part, this is all new to me. I'm definitely bookmarking this page to sort through! Maybe when I've read a bit more of Jason. I'll probably appreciate the stories more. :)

I'll also share a couple stories I read after I read 'Blood in the Water'. Though for these I did at least know the gist of Jason's status in the comics:
Eternal Soliloquy by renecdote
Jason doesn't get brought back to life and is a ghost at his grave.

yet another year or more by wildparsnip
A Jason character study that involves reminiscing.

Jason, Meet John Constantine by mizmahlia
This was the one I couldn't think of in one of my previous posts. Jason sees ghosts/other non-living creatures after coming back to life.

What was Left Behind by Team_Alpha_Wolf_Squadron
I think I have a favorite type of story?? lol While the pov is Damian in the first chapter, it's about him meeting young ghost!Jason. 




> Fics are great! When it comes to Jason, aside from the usual pairing fics, he has a good number of quality gen fics that you don't often see with other DC characters. On the other hand though, also when it comes to Jason as far as I know, I've regrettably stopped reading from a few authors not because of their writing nor portrayal of Jason but rather *I feel they've become too attached to their own ideas that they're eager to criticize canon materials, with no patience to see the big picture nor sympathy to comic writers who have to work under creative constraint*. But anyway, 'Help' and 'Harm' are great! :D


I can understand this being a problem. I don't mind being critical towards canon materials or preferring some kind of headcanon, but no matter the character or universe there's definitely a threshold, I think. 
I have definitely chosen the right character then! I don't mind reading romantic fics, but I definitely prefer gen fics.




> I'll let the "stand alone works" recommendations (the ones for @Lirica) for the next time :) (I just expended about two and half hours writing that, wow).


So excited for this! You've already written up an amazing recommended fanfic authors post! :D

----------


## Zaresh

> Wow, so many recs! I've seen some of these stories and have heard of a few of these authors, but for the most part, this is all new to me. I'm definitely bookmarking this page to sort through! Maybe when I've read a bit more of Jason. I'll probably appreciate the stories more. 
> 
> I'll also share a couple stories I read after I read 'Blood in the Water'. Though for these I did at least know the gist of Jason's status in the comics:
> Eternal Soliloquy by renecdote
> Jason doesn't get brought back to life and is a ghost at his grave.
> 
> yet another year or more by wildparsnip
> A Jason character study that involves reminiscing.
> 
> ...


I've read two of those: Eternal Soliloquy and What was left behind. Both pretty good, especially Eternal Soliloquy, even if it is very sad. For whatever reason I didn't bookmark them, so thanks a lot!




> So excited for this! You've already written up an amazing recommended fanfic authors post!


Thanks! 

All those years of training for being a libraian somehow pay off. I'm not Batgirl, but having fun with our hobbies is not bad.

----------


## Sergard

Some cute Cat!Jason by Fade. (source)

Fade: "_My friend asked me to draw Jay’s pockets full of cat snacks XD_"








> Edit: Oh, now that I see the OP post again; @Sergard, it's growing beautifully. Congrats, again .


Thanks  :Embarrassment: . I do my best, even if the progress on my part is very slow. I'm really grateful that you and everyone else here takes the time and lends a hand to amplify the introduction post.
Because of that the current thread discussion is maybe a little chaotic but I hope (and believe) the final result will be worth the effort and chaos.

----------


## kaimaciel

> Sorry, I'm too tired to write long and informative texts like Zaresh. So my fanfic recommendations are
> 
> + Lysical (especially "Retrograde Motion")
> writes a lot of Jason-centric stories without mature/explicit content, very "sweet" stuff with lots of interaction with the outlaws and the batfamily
> 
> + whatomen's "Jason Todd - Collector of Strays"
> On-going fanfic with over 60 chapters about Jason adopting animals and children while trying to avoid the batfamily
> 
> + Pinestorm's "Bad Times for Todd" series
> ...


Aw! Thank you @Segard! It means a lot to me to see my story among so many great ones. I was thinking about writing a prequel to this story this year once I get more free time.

Also, welcome aboard @Lirica! I hope you enjoy our little group.

You guys already posted most of the fics I know. I could also add this one:

If He Had Come by bronwe_iris

An alternate storyline in the Arkham Universe where Bruce finds Jason in the Asylum after being tortured by the Joker and brings him home to recover. However, Tim Drake is already the new Robin.

----------


## Sergard

It's actually fun to look up quotes and interesting moments for Jason's allies and enemies. Although Roy and Kori will probably be a little difficult for me because I haven't read the old RHatO run for a long time (and 40 chapters are a lot to look through).
I'm so close to just take Roy's "Remember that voice you heard in your head? "Don't do it, dummy!" That was me." from the second annual because it sounds so sweet.

----------


## Zaresh

Ok, let's go with a round of urban fantasy fics for *@Lirica*. Also ghost stories, because I think you may appreciate those as well. Maybe you had already read them, I don't know.

As I already mentioned, *@GavotteAndGigue* has written horror stories. The Dreamscape series is an enjoyable work, but not for everyone. It depicts *heavy violence* and the JayDick* M/M ship*, and it is a heavy plot point especially in the first story. It also depicts a *disturbing other relationship*. It's both supernatural and cosmic horror based on the Vertigo set of DC mythos (The Sandman, a bit of Hellblazer too), but even more Lovecraft-like. It's very pulpy, dark and gritty. Has constant allusions to noncon. Last part has Constantine on it. And a goat.

This writer has another work that I mentioned too, and that has finished just yesterday. It's supernatural and psychological horror, much like what you could find in a Silent Hill videogame. Phantasmagoria is better than the series I mentioned, not only because it's better written, but because it really crept the hell out of me half the time. It also depicts JayDick, but, eh, it's just barely there. Sick and hurt Jason gets stuck in a haunted building. A lot of confusing stuff happens. There are ghosts, demons and fire. They could have dubbed this work Red Hood: Silent Hill the Room. *Mature content*, because *brutal violence* basically.

Next work may not be a masterpiece, but heck if it didn't give me a lot of "feels" and put my heart in warmth. Tittle is: Call Me Dawnslight, by *@InaudibleTacit*. Technically, it doesn't play with different rules than the ones in the main DCU, but it plays them in a way that makes for an actual urban fantasy story. It's Bruce bonding and struggling with Jason, with _dead Robin_ Jason. It's drama, and also healing, and a bit of mystery along the way. Really loved it.

One of the Batfics by *@InsaneTrollLogic* is a Ghost Story. Psychological horror with some supernatural elements. Very creepy, more because of the psychological stuff than of the supernatural.

Cycle of Life, by *@chibi_nightowl* isn't, strictly speaking, neither a ghost story nor urban fantasy; but I suspect you will like it if you don't mind the JayTim shipping. It's more like magic realism, to be honest: you could call it a "metafiction" work. And it's soft drama and almost a soliloquy by Jason.

I guess I can put The Many Deaths of Jason Todd by *@Zoeleo* in the "urban fantasy" category, but it's more like a mystery story with strong supernatural elements (I don't know if you can see the difference I'm trying to make). *Mature content* (violence, language and sexual content), *M/M relationship*. It's the first part of an unfinished series. The continuation is still ongoing, with a very slow pace; and so far it's mostly familial melodrama and fluff and shameless JayTim shipping that I think still needs a full plot to follow. I liked the first part a lot more.

*@chibi_nightowl* and *@GoAwayOlivia* are writing an urban fantasy series that I honestly don't know where it will go: Moon, Snow, and Ice. As you can guess, *heavy JayTim shipping* (there is also a past JayRoy implied, if I recall correctly). It's not main DCU Tim, at least: just a character that sounds like usual-chibi_nighthowl!Tim and shares his name (it's a fae). The rest of the characters though, are main DCU characters in their main DCU roles (or at least I think they are). Also, well, *mature target* for sexual content. The first part (which was a stand alone story at the time) was nice, and I honestly liked it enough for wishing for a continuation. I got lucky and now two writers I like have joined efforts. I trust them to finish this work, however long it will take: that's why I'm linking it despite how little they had released yet.

Eternal Soliloquy by *@renecdote*. Jason doesn't get brought back to life and is a ghost at his grave. Drama, general audience.

Jason, Meet John Constantine by *@mizmahlia*. Jason sees ghosts/other non-living creatures after coming back to life.

What was Left Behind by *@Team_Alpha_Wolf_Squadron*. While the pov is Damian in the first chapter, it's about him meeting young ghost!Jason. Teen audience. This work also has a small mystery story going on. And for those who have no qualms about violence and *heavy sexual content of very dubious nature (if not straight noncon)*, this writer has a series that is both horror and urban fantasy. It's not as good as this short story, but in any case, the title of the series is He loves me.

Hell Connection, by *@Ladelle*.* Jay/Tim* ship, and it's targeted Teen, but as far as I recall, it's more like *Mature targeted*, really. It's not great, but if you like stories with demons and possessions and magic rituals and curses, this fic is quite enjoyable. Lots of melodrama and angst, but that's inherent to any grimdark story about demons.

Six Senses (And None of Them Common), by *@Hinn_Raven*. *General audiences, no ships*. This is a one shot, and a bit short; but it's a fun story with ghosts and I think you may like it.

Worth Living For, by *@Myoneloveismusic*. *Teen audience, JayTim ship*. This is also a one-shot, but a lot longer. Jason is brought back to live as some sort of guardian entity who is assigned to be the protector of a non-caped Tim from some dangerous monsters. I'll be honest: it's a bit bittersweet, but I enjoyed it. It's a fine story.

Tales from the House of Mau, by *@clarityhiding*. This is an urban fantasy, no capes series in which Jason inherits a comics and hobbies store (and an apartment) and ends being involved with the magic folk. None of the characters are with their original IDs and aliases; but those things sort of play into the story. It's male on male ship (JayTim. Female on female too, because IvyHarley), and even if it's tagged as teen, it's more like mature readers aimed, to be honest (by the commentary on sex themes). What can I say: it's fun, pretty chill and fluff in mood, and there are dragons and stuff. And tabletop roleplaying. Think "Fantastic Beasts" meets "Maison Ikkoku".

░▒▓▒░░▒▓▒░░▒▓▒░░▒▓▒░
There are way more stories with either ghosts or magic and supernatural elements in an urban setting in AO3. But either I haven't read them, or I disliked them, or the levels of shipping and sexual content are off charts, or the almost only trait the characters share with their DC counterparts is their name (making the whole fic almost not a fic, really). Or a combination of some of these reasons. I suspect there are even more in FFN, but it's a site I don't visit often and I usually struggle with the search engine there.

----------


## Sergard

Jason Fabok has posted a sneak peek for the Three Jokers story. Just Batman but still interesting. I'm really looking forward to see his Red Hood in action.

"_Here's a sneak peek at a tiny part of a small panel from extra long first issue of Batman: Three Jokers. I like how savage Batman turned out here. Happy New Year!_"

----------


## G-Potion

> From Now On, Autumn of Life & Jason Todd: Not So Outlaw (I think... might be wrong on that one) are ones I enjoy.






> I am pretty picky with regard to fanfiction but here are a few of my favorite writer and stories:
> 
> *ofVellichor* "Autumn of Life" is another story that I really enjoy and yet another one that finds Jason moving on with his life.



With your recs I think I'll continue with this. The first few chapters that I read feel too partial towards Jason, sometimes it bothers on Sue-ness. But I can't deny that I love the idea of Jason moving on and forming his own little group. I also like the sheer size of this story and the recent chapters which deal with Batfam interrelationship.

----------


## G-Potion

> This writer has another work that I mentioned too, and that has finished just yesterday. It's supernatural and psychological horror, much like what you could find in a Silent Hill videogame. Phantasmagoria is better than the series I mentioned, not only because it's better written, but because it really crept the hell out of me half the time. It also depicts JayDick, but, eh, it's just barely there. Sick and hurt Jason gets stuck in a haunted building. A lot of confusing stuff happens. There are ghosts, demons and fire. They could have dubbed this work Red Hood: Silent Hill the Room. *Mature content*, because *brutal violence* basically.


Sweet. I was waiting for *Phantasmagoria* to finish. This one reads best as a whole since you don't get to lose the creepy feeling in between chapters.

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## Jackalope89

Jason Todd- Collector of Strays. Begins with Jay coming across an abandoned dog and taking it in, all the while getting involved with a growing mystery that involves both Gotham and Star City.

----------


## Zaresh

> With your recs I think I'll continue with this. The first few chapters that I read feel too partial towards Jason, sometimes it bothers on Sue-ness. But I can't deny that I love the idea of Jason moving on and forming his own little group. I also like the sheer size of this story and the recent chapters which deal with Batfam interrelationship.


"From Now On" has some issues, one is precisely how Mary Sue-like are the main characters (Jason and the Original female character whose name I cannot recall now but I did know until like 30 minutes ago). It's not a bad fanfic, I've read it almost up to date; but it does have issues. Another one is how clumsy and repetitive the dialogue is; after the narrator and the whole situation makes it clear certain point, the characters will repeat and explain again (in no few words) the whole matter. It feels like reading a dialogue between Mr. and Mrs. Exposition, and it isn't an issue that gets better across the fic. But, as I said, I've been reading it until a few chapters ago. It's pretty enjoyable (despite me disliking musicals and the fic being in love with that genre). There is a case going on with it between all the melodrama and romance that is the story, and that's something that is always going to drive me in. The chapters with the fighting in Crime Alley where very good. I just hope the plot outside the romance takes off soon, because if not, I'll probably drop it. I can say the same (about dropping) with other fic I'm following (the one* @Jackalope89* has just mentioned), but the funny thing is, there, I'm hoping for the romance to actually start to make some presence in the story (because I like the dynamic with the original character there).

I haven't read "Autumn of Life". I'm always about to click in it and add it to my list, but it's so long it scares me a bit. Is it good? What would I expect? (strengths and weak points)

Edit:




> Sweet. I was waiting for *Phantasmagoria* to finish. This one reads best as a whole since you don't get to lose the creepy feeling in between chapters.


Absolutely right. I wish I had waited.

----------


## G-Potion

@*Zaresh*: My comment was about Autumn of Life which I only read a bit, and I feel there's some Sue-ness in there. Not much in the recent chapters that I skimmed through though. But I'll wait for *Arsenal* and *JasonTodd428* to confirm/deny and explain the plot in detail. I haven't read From Now On.

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## G-Potion

Has anyone mentioned ScaryScarecrows? Their Cigarette Smoke and Snark is a collection of one-shots and multi-shots about AK Jason. Funny. Featuring his Militia who are ridiculously cute.

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## Zaresh

> @*Zaresh*: My comment was about Autumn of Life which I only read a bit, and I feel there's some Sue-ness in there. Not much in the recent chapters that I skimmed through though. But I'll wait for *Arsenal* and *JasonTodd428* to confirm/deny and explain the plot in detail. I haven't read From Now On.


Oh, I see. I'll wait too, then.




> Has anyone mentioned ScaryScarecrows? Their Cigarette Smoke and Snark is a collection of one-shots and multi-shots about AK Jason. Funny. Featuring his Militia who are ridiculously cute.


Noted. I'll give them a try too :3.

----------


## G-Potion

http://len-yan.tumblr.com/post/69484577485

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## JasonTodd428

@G and Zaresh: I don't find things to be particularly Sue-ish in either story myself particularly as the stories progress. Then again I sometimes feel that the term "MarySue" is used over much when discussing fanfiction and in particular OCs within those stories. In my mind something is in Sue-ish territory when absolutely everything about the characters, situations and so forth are 100% perfect, without flaws. Typically things are resolved within the plots of such stories with some sort of hand-wavy nonsense that doesn't fit with the surrounding story progression or otherwise fails to make logical sense with that progression. YMMV on that of course but over the years I've heard that term so often that its beginning to lose its meaning in my opinion.

----------


## G-Potion

JJMK's birthday. They're such a prominent Jason fanartist that it almost feels like Jason's birthday as well.  :Stick Out Tongue: 

https://fade-works.tumblr.com/post/1...my-friend-jjmk

----------


## G-Potion

> @G and Zaresh: I don't find things to be particularly Sue-ish in either story myself particularly as the stories progress. Then again I sometimes feel that the term "MarySue" is used over much when discussing fanfiction and in particular OCs within those stories. In my mind something is in Sue-ish territory when absolutely everything about the characters, situations and so forth are 100% perfect, without flaws. Typically things are resolved within the plots of such stories with some sort of hand-wavy nonsense that doesn't fit with the surrounding story progression or otherwise fails to make logical sense with that progression. YMMV on that of course but over the years I've heard that term so often that its beginning to lose its meaning in my opinion.


I get where you're from, and yeah, I wouldn't say Jason in Autumn of Life is Sue-ish according to your definition either. What I feel is that the story often presents a situation that makes Jason look too good that Bruce and even the Justice League either feel bad or feel awed in return. It's a little bit one-sided because Jason has moved on and isn't (or doesn't appear) bothered about his past with Bruce (which is good, I approve), but also because we have a lot of outsider POV looking at Jason and not a lot of the reverse. As someone who reads for Jason, I kinda feel bad for the other characters. But again, I didn't read the story in its entirety to really justify my criticism and as you also said, as the story progresses, it becomes a non issue. That's why I want to give it another chance.

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## Zaresh

> @G and Zaresh: I don't find things to be particularly Sue-ish in either story myself particularly as the stories progress. Then again I sometimes feel that the term "MarySue" is used over much when discussing fanfiction and in particular OCs within those stories. In my mind something is in Sue-ish territory when absolutely everything about the characters, situations and so forth are 100% perfect, without flaws. Typically things are resolved within the plots of such stories with some sort of hand-wavy nonsense that doesn't fit with the surrounding story progression or otherwise fails to make logical sense with that progression. YMMV on that of course but over the years I've heard that term so often that its beginning to lose its meaning in my opinion.


For me, a Mary Sue is a character that most or all of the time is shown under a light that makes them in the right. They can fail, and they can mess and they can be weak, but they will be in the right and all will be forgiven. In a conflictive situation, they will be in the right, and their inner struggles will wind either in the better outcome for then or picture them in a sympathetic position. That's a Mary Sue for me. It's more than being perfect or powerful or not having flaws. And Jason and Nicole are that in From Now On. But I get that's probably not the most accurate description of a Mary Sue. In any case, Jason does have mary sue qualities in that fic, what with being this almost saint that sings and dance and always gets conflict resolved successfully, and helps people everywhere without fail. It lacks a key element of the character in the comics: he screws a lot, and he fails and pays with consequences a lot. He can err and be wrong. Which makes him very relatable.

Still, as I said, that work is very enjoyable \o/.

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## Zaresh

> JJMK's birthday. They're such a prominent Jason fanartist that it almost feels like Jason's birthday as well. 
> 
> https://fade-works.tumblr.com/post/1...my-friend-jjmk


This is cool. The coolmeter is breaking the record, ladies and gents.

----------


## Arsenal

> I get where you're from, and yeah, I wouldn't say Jason in Autumn of Life is Sue-ish according to your definition either. What I feel is that the story often presents a situation that makes Jason look too good that Bruce and even the Justice League either feel bad or feel awed in return. It's a little bit one-sided because Jason has moved on and isn't (or doesn't appear) bothered about his past with Bruce (which is good, I approve), but also because we have a lot of outsider POV looking at Jason and not a lot of the reverse. As someone who reads for Jason, I kinda feel bad for the other characters. But again, I didn't read the story in its entirety to really justify my criticism and as you also said, as the story progresses, it becomes a non issue. That's why I want to give it another chance.


I get what you’re saying and it can definitely feel one sided but I feel like it gets more balanced out as the story goes on (maybe not so much with the league but definitely with the BatFam). Especially after a certain event in the story.

----------


## Sergard

I totally forgot about that fanfic although I love the idea.

"With Violet Light" by *Evilpixie* - Alternative version of BUtH in which Jason becomes a Star Sapphire.


It's probably a good idea to later collect all recommendations in posts sorted by theme or so. So we can keep linked posts to a minimum and give a better overview for other users.

----------


## Raijin

I always wanted to see Jason cross paths with this guy.

Vigilante_-_Adrian_Chase_01 (1).jpg

----------


## Sergard

> I always wanted to see Jason cross paths with this guy.
> 
> Vigilante_-_Adrian_Chase_01 (1).jpg


And who's that guy?

----------


## Raijin

> And who's that guy?



Oh that is Vigilante. (Adrian Chase) He was Frank Castle before Frank Castle pretty much.

----------


## Lirica

> I've read two of those: Eternal Soliloquy and What was left behind. Both pretty good, especially Eternal Soliloquy, even if it is very sad. For whatever reason I didn't bookmark them, so thanks a lot!
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! 
> 
> All those years of training for being a libraian somehow pay off. I'm not Batgirl, but having fun with our hobbies is not bad.


You're welcome! I've learned my lesson about not bookmarking fics I like when I first read them, so glad I could help! xD
This is exactly the kind of thing library training should be used for!




> snipped awesome urban fantasy rec post


This post is amazing! I think the only one I've actually read some of is 'The Many Deaths of Jason Todd' (though the title 'Call me Dawnslight' seems familiar so I probably wrongly scrolled by it). I started it, but cannot remember why I never finished it.
I'm intrigued by all of these and will check them out! I'm especially curious about the Dreamscape series, since I love the Vertigo-based DC mythos.

Re: on shipping, I don't really mind what the ship is necessarily. If it's well written, I'll at least try it, but thank you for at least mentioning what ships there are, if any. The whole post is super helpful!



> Also, welcome aboard @Lirica! I hope you enjoy our little group.


Thank you! I'm definitely already enjoying it here!  :Smile: 





> "With Violet Light" by *Evilpixie* - Alternative version of BUtH in which Jason becomes a Star Sapphire.


I've seen this fic and I've heard it's very good. My jump to the main DC line was through GL, but at that time I had pretty much no idea of Jason, so I skipped over it. Good to see it and try it out now.

----------


## G-Potion

Ah yes, I definitely recommend 'With Violet Light' as well!  :Big Grin:

----------


## Sergard

> Oh that is Vigilante. (Adrian Chase) He was Frank Castle before Frank Castle pretty much.


Thanks for the info. I googled him. There have been a few Vigilantes so far. And since Danny Fairchild seems to be the new Vigilante in current continuity it's probably unlikely for Adrian to take up the mantle, or?
Has Adrian Chase even been mentioned since New52 started? His wiki entry says that he took his own life and was replaced by his brother Dorian as Vigilante in old continuity.

Somehow Adrian's costume reminded me of the character Raze from "Silencer". Although after looking Raze' costume up (picture from Silencer #11, Raze is the guy in blue on the left) his costume is more different than I remembered.




But in general I'm always in favor of Jason meeting other anti-heroes.





> I've seen this fic and I've heard it's very good. My jump to the main DC line was through GL, but at that time I had pretty much no idea of Jason, so I skipped over it. Good to see it and try it out now.


Then maybe you'll like "Castle in the Air" by rredhoods. Here, Jason becomes a blue lantern. The fanfic has three chapters at the moment and so far not a lot has happened. But I'm hopeful that future chapters will be more interesting. Simon Baz and Jessica Cruz are also part of the story. It has a Jason/Kyle pairing but the story is T-rated. So there won't be any explicit stuff.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Oh that is Vigilante. (Adrian Chase) He was Frank Castle before Frank Castle pretty much.


Wait, he was that old? I thought he's a young character

----------


## Aahz

> Wait, he was that old? I thought he's a young character


There have been several characters with this mantle. Adrian Chase was created by Marv Wolvmannhis in 1982 in New Teen Titans and than got his own solo series.

----------


## Sergard

Here's the finalized cover of Red Hood: Outlaw #30. I believe, it hasn't been posted yet, or?



And here is the original version for comparison.

----------


## G-Potion

I do love the blue tone of this final version more.

----------


## Zaresh

> You're welcome! I've learned my lesson about not bookmarking fics I like when I first read them, so glad I could help! xD
> This is exactly the kind of thing library training should be used for!


Well...





> This post is amazing! I think the only one I've actually read some of is 'The Many Deaths of Jason Todd' (though the title 'Call me Dawnslight' seems familiar so I probably wrongly scrolled by it). I started it, but cannot remember why I never finished it.
> I'm intrigued by all of these and will check them out! I'm especially curious about the Dreamscape series, since I love the Vertigo-based DC mythos.
> 
> Re: on shipping, I don't really mind what the ship is necessarily. If it's well written, I'll at least try it, but thank you for at least mentioning what ships there are, if any. The whole post is super helpful!


Thanks, and you're welcome  :Smile: . Glad to be of some help, and I love sharing stuff I like, to be honest. It's like a bit of an addiction. You can see how often I ramble and ramble about off topic books or shows or whatever because I love to make other people know about them (and hopeful, love them as much ;D).
About the shippings, I am not a romance reader (unfortunately, because my mother had a ton of those books at some point, years ago), but I like any kind of relationship when is written in a believable or interesting way. I like character development and good dynamics in the stories I invest my time in (if they are not pure crack or have other qualities that get me interested in them, like a good mystery behind).




> I totally forgot about that fanfic although I love the idea.
> 
> "With Violet Light" by *Evilpixie* - Alternative version of BUtH in which Jason becomes a Star Sapphire.


I usually click in all the "Jason is now a lantern" for a reason I cannot pinpoint (maybe I just like the idea). I wonder if I've read this one and forgotten about it because all the time has passed or I missed it; so thanks for linking it. I'll know soon which one is XD. I do remember reading "Castle in the Air".

----------


## Zaresh

I didn't know there is a limit quota to quotations for message. The more you know.




> It's probably a good idea to later collect all recommendations in posts sorted by theme or so. So we can keep linked posts to a minimum and give a better overview for other users.


Understood. I'm going to link all the ghost and horror stories in my post, and then collect the others in a few more as we see them being posted. One for "In which Jason is another kind of hero" could fit these Lantern and some other few works: it's a common trope, I think. Another one could be "Jason moves on in his life", pretty common storyline too.




> Here's the finalized cover of Red Hood: Outlaw #30. I believe, it hasn't been posted yet, or?
> 
> 
> 
> And here is the original version for comparison.


I don't get why these little changes, but I guess this time it looks better for me. The colour of the light was good for an interior, but for a cover I think it sort of distracts the eye a bit.

Edit: about other anti-heroes, I was skimming over The Spectre for a story I have in mind, and I think it would be interesting if he encounters this entity at some point. Not an arc, not taking the role: just a one-shot story.

----------


## Zaresh

Well then, the post about Ghosts and Urban Fantasy fics is already edited. If you want to add any other work, you're welcome to do so.

----------


## Lirica

> Then maybe you'll like "Castle in the Air" by rredhoods. Here, Jason becomes a blue lantern. The fanfic has three chapters at the moment and so far not a lot has happened. But I'm hopeful that future chapters will be more interesting. Simon Baz and Jessica Cruz are also part of the story. It has a Jason/Kyle pairing but the story is T-rated. So there won't be any explicit stuff.


Oh cool! I'll check this one out. Jason as a blue lantern sounds just as interesting as violet to me. Also, great that Simon, Jess, and Kyle will be in it. 
Huh, a Jason/Kyle pairing? Okay, sure. Wasn't expecting that, though. 




> Thanks, and you're welcome . Glad to be of some help, and I love sharing stuff I like, to be honest. It's like a bit of an addiction. You can see how often I ramble and ramble about off topic books or shows or whatever because I love to make other people know about them (and hopeful, love them as much ;D).
> About the shippings, I am not a romance reader (unfortunately, because my mother had a ton of those books at some point, years ago), but *I like any kind of relationship when is written in a believable or interesting way. I like character development and good dynamics in the stories I invest my time in* (if they are not pure crack or have other qualities that get me interested in them, like a good mystery behind).


I'd say it's a good addiction to have. ;D I'm the same way!
Bolded for truth on shippings/relationships!

Jason meeting The Spectre would be so cool. That's another DC character that's been recommended to me and I've looked into, so I'd like that very much.

----------


## kaimaciel

JJMK blessing the fandom with another awesome artwork:

tumblr_pkyp89PJqi1wvpvsso3_1280.jpg
tumblr_pkyp89PJqi1wvpvsso1_1280.jpg
tumblr_pkyp89PJqi1wvpvsso2_1280.jpg

----------


## G-Potion

Funny and gorgeous at the same time.   :Big Grin:

----------


## Restingvoice

Did they ever elaborate on what exactly Superman meant that Batman vouched for the Outlaws?

SEP120187_1._SX1280_QL80_TTD_.jpg

They just came back from outer space, so before that the only time Jason would meet Batman was after Night of The Owls, during the War of The Robins, where Damian challenged everyone and then worked together with everyone to safe the city from a band of old villains looking for revenge.

----------


## TheCape

> Did they ever elaborate on what exactly Superman meant that Batman vouched for the Outlaws?
> 
> SEP120187_1._SX1280_QL80_TTD_.jpg
> 
> They just came back from outer space, so before that the only time Jason would meet Batman was after Night of The Owls, during the War of The Robins, where Damian challenged everyone and then worked together with everyone to safe the city from a band of old villains looking for revenge.


He also helped Bruce during the events of Batman Incorporated.

----------


## Zaresh

> JJMK blessing the fandom with another awesome artwork:
> 
> tumblr_pkyp89PJqi1wvpvsso3_1280.jpg
> tumblr_pkyp89PJqi1wvpvsso1_1280.jpg
> tumblr_pkyp89PJqi1wvpvsso2_1280.jpg


I'm jealous. I wish I were funny. I wish I could render colour that way  :Frown: 
-----
I'm afraid I cannot post a new collecting recs post today. I've been out from home until now and am quite tired, sorry.

----------


## kaimaciel

> I'm jealous. I wish I were funny. I wish I could render colour that way 
> -----
> I'm afraid I cannot post a new collecting recs post today. I've been out from home until now and am quite tired, sorry.


Get some rest, Zaresh. You deserve it!

----------


## Zaresh

> Get some rest, Zaresh. You deserve it!


I love you guys. But you already know  :Big Grin: 
I'm planning on drawing our little roleplaying party of Red Hoods (previous thread) this week or the next one. So... There will be some delayed "Día de Reyes" (Epiphany's Day) presents from me to you, too.

----------


## Sergard

> Oh cool! I'll check this one out. Jason as a blue lantern sounds just as interesting as violet to me. Also, great that Simon, Jess, and Kyle will be in it. 
> Huh, a Jason/Kyle pairing? Okay, sure. Wasn't expecting that, though.


No one is ever expecting Jason/Kyle. My first reaction, when I encountered that pairing in a fanfic for the first time, was "Why?". It's crack and the fan-base is small - but most fanfics about the pairing are surprisingly nice and more on the T-rated side instead of E or M. If I have to make a guess, the fascination for that pairing started with "Countdown" in which Kyle and Jason are on the same team and fight like cat and dog from the get-go. (And two male characters with a tense/conflicted relationship look in general very attractive to slash-writers.) Here's a page from Countdown #33:



But if you don't mind the pairing, here's another fanfic in which Jason joins different lantern corps (short stories).
i deserve that, don't i, some sort of blazing love that i can live with by evanescent

Some fans of the pairing even make jokes about Jason's quote "I've got no problem with Kyle. He's great. He's dreamy." because out of context it could (obviously) be interpreted differently.

Although my personal favorite "out of context"-quote - with corresponding panel - is from Batman #368. (That's pre-crisis Jason)

----------


## RedBird

Red Artemonica

----------


## Jackalope89

> Red Artemonica


Man, Soy really likes Rebirth Outlaws. So do I. And seeing things like this just makes me want Artemis and Bizz back all the more.

----------


## Zaresh

I honestly think the JayKyle shipping is especially hilarious when you realize that Kyle is even older than Dick. IIRC, he always has been between the Dick and Bruce generation, even if he is a 90's character. There are not many characters in that range of age, so I guess you have to pair him with someone outside big teams like the Justice League and the Green Lanterns. But even with that in mind, I too think they make fore some interesting dynamic (and it's true that Kyle is dreamy, not so much great: you can bet he will screw up badly something, at some point. He will get very mad too. And even if he's not dumb, he is incredible, unbelievable naive at times—and at other, very distrustful). Lots of potential for good stories there.

*⇜♦⌾⭕⌾♦⇝*

So, on the topic of Lanterns and Jason, here it is the post for the "*In which Jason is another kind of hero*" category. This category includes Jason as a non caped hero (like a cop, for example) or Jason taking on other mantle (like a Lantern, or being some other character's sidekick). So far, we have the following recommendations:

Recommended by @Sergard:

With Violet Light, by @Evilpixie. Alternative version of B:UtH in which Jason becomes a Star Sapphire.
—Zaresh here: Teen audiences (lots of foul language), no shipping at all. It's drama and action and angst, but also a story about Jason making peace with what has happened to him and reconnecting with his family. Turns out I hadn't read that fic: now I have. Very good.

Castle in the Air, by @rredhoods. Here, Jason becomes a blue lantern. The fanfic has three chapters at the moment and so far not a lot has happened. But I'm hopeful that future chapters will be more interesting. Simon Baz and Jessica Cruz are also part of the story. It has a Jason/Kyle pairing but the story is T-rated. So there won't be any explicit stuff.

I deserve that, don't i, some sort of blazing love that i can live with, by @evanescent. If you don't mind the pairing (Jason/Kyle), here's another fanfic in which Jason joins different lantern corps (short stories).
—Zaresh here: I remember reading this fic. It's heavy in the romance, but aimed for teens and SFW.

Sometimes Goodbye's the Only Way, by @KatastrophicTodd. A fic in which Jason works for Amanda Waller. Drama, general audiences, no ships.

@Zaresh (that's me) recommendations from this point on:

Well, When You Go, by @dnawhite76 and @Prubbs. This is fitting this category by a hair, but I want to put it here. After Bruce dies, the cowl goes to Jason, to surprise of most people (but Tim). It's heavy in drama, has a little bit of JayTim, and has violence and character's death. Jason making himself a good Batman, and learning to forgive and value himself is moving. It also has supernatural elements as plot points. I honestly liked this work a lot.

Left Behind But Not For Long, by @meyari. Again, it barely fits this category, but what can I do. Jason becomes a multiverse adventurer (leaving behind his Red Hood persona in the end). Mature readers, with some explicit content. It's a rather old series, but it was the first in which I saw an attempt to explain Morrison's redhead Jason. Black haired Jason gets replaced by another universe Jason, who is a psychotic psychopath, before Countdown finishes and Jason ends stuck in another universe. It's, besides a JayTim romance story, a cool sci fi story with Jason as some sort of Odysseus traveling across a wide multiverse, trying and struggling to come home, and meeting different versions of himself and Tim. It's sweet and sad, and even if it's a little self-satisfying and Jason is a bit of a Mary Sue at times, I definitely would recommend it.

Gotham Banksy, by @LananiA3O. I already recommended it, but then, it fits the theme, soo... Jason becomes a graffiti artist, or more like graffiti madman and delinquent, instead of the Red Hood. A mystery story with a very dark and gritty tone. Drama and mystery, no shipping, teen readers.

Hard Season is an ongoing series by @bewaretheboojum. Jason is a police detective working in Gotham. He meets Red Robin, and stuff happens. It has JayTim romance, yeah, and has *explicit content*. But the second part is a pretty decent mystery story and I suspect the following works (it there are more) will fall under that category.

Updated *01/26/2019*
Quarter past midnight, by @Aaren. This work is mostly about how Jason rediscovers his family; but because this Jason is an amnesiac teen that made himself a nurse, and that's an important plot point in this story, I'm going to add this fic here as well. *Teen readers, general relationships*. Very enjoyable.

*⇜♦⌾⭕⌾♦⇝*

I have more fics with Jason being something else, but apparently I didn't bookmark them and cannot remember enough information for finding them without investing hours in my inquiry. More recommendations are welcome.

Next list will probably be the "Jason moves on with his life". I was thinking about putting all the time travel and age-deage fics in the same post, too. Also, related to that one: I totally forgot to add @Lysical to the writers list and am going to edit that post to add them.

----------


## Restingvoice

So he's Babs age?

----------


## Zaresh

> So he's Babs age?


In old cont, to my knowledge and understanding, he was around the 28-30yo mark (while Dick was around 27, iirc).

Edit: adding now Aahz's rec writer to the authors list as well. A category for "not capes" fics (or almost not capes, or Bruce being a dad and Jason a son) will definitely come. I need to find a proper name for that one.

----------


## Aahz

@fanfic recomandations

Some I think were fun, and were not mentioned sofar:

Silver Spider had a few good ones (basically an AU were Talia acts more like her classic version)

No Bats In The Belfry (a no capes AU) and Little Wing and Big Bird (a Dick and Jason team up during his time as Robin) by Airawyn are 

Not really a Jason story but Glimare's "Daddy not Bats" (an AU were Bruce retires as Batman to raise his Kids) is also really cute

----------


## Sergard

> I have more fics with Jason being something else, but apparently I didn't bookmark them and cannot remember enough information for finding them without investing hours in my inquiry. More recommendations are welcome.


I feel you. I often forget to bookmark fics too because I think "I'll never forget that great fic." - and then I forget it. And months later the fic is hard to find.

Which information do you remember? Maybe I or someone else can help.

----------


## Jackalope89

So, with the return of Young Justice (animated series), browsing Young Justice Fanfics, and in general, thinking about the whole setup, Jason from Earth 16 would have had a closer/better relationship with Bruce, Dick, and Babs than the main continuity version. Along with that, it stands to reason he would have at least had better chances to form bonds with the other teen heroes. 

Which means, if Jason does return, it would be most likely quite a bit different than the revenge driven Under the Red Hood of mainline continuity. I've come across a few such fanfics, but I would still love to see what Greg Weisman and crew could do with such a development.

----------


## Zaresh

> I feel you. I often forget to bookmark fics too because I think "I'll never forget that great fic." - and then I forget it. And months later the fic is hard to find.
> 
> Which information do you remember? Maybe I or someone else can help.


I probably didn't bookmark them because I though they were so-so or weren't finished yet (but forgot to subscribe to). Or I directly forgot to bookmark after kudoing, which is something that keeps happening even with works I like a lot and are finished.

Memories are fuzzy. I remember a few about Jason being Catwoman's or Ivy's sidekick, another one with him being a cop in Blûdhaven, I remember reading a few in which he works for Talia after coming back from death (one was quite good and I think it was a three parter), another two about him taking into the mantle of Lady Shiva (one of which I liked a lot too, but was short lived, iirc). And at this moment those are the ones that I can remember.

----------


## Sergard

How to Read Jason Todd's Journey From Robin to Red Hood

The article isn't that bad. Although I would have added Batman: The Caped Crusader Vol. 1 between Second Chances and Death in the family.

----------


## Lirica

> No one is ever expecting Jason/Kyle. My first reaction, when I encountered that pairing in a fanfic for the first time, was "Why?". It's crack and the fan-base is small - but most fanfics about the pairing are surprisingly nice and more on the T-rated side instead of E or M. If I have to make a guess, the fascination for that pairing started with "Countdown" in which Kyle and Jason are on the same team and fight like cat and dog from the get-go. (And two male characters with a tense/conflicted relationship look in general very attractive to slash-writers.) Here's a page from Countdown #33:


I'm not sure if that was intentional on your part, but good Monty Python reference.  :Wink:  
Oh, I have not read Countdown, though, I have heard of it (and now thinking about it I've seen fanart)--mostly to not read it. Does their animosity turn into a fight(s) over Donna? And also, what even prompted Jason to saying that line in context?



> But if you don't mind the pairing, here's another fanfic in which Jason joins different lantern corps (short stories).
> i deserve that, don't i, some sort of blazing love that i can live with by evanescent
> 
> Some fans of the pairing even make jokes about Jason's quote "I've got no problem with Kyle. He's great. He's dreamy." because out of context it could (obviously) be interpreted differently.


I have no problem with the pairing, just kinda surprised. Nice to hear there are some nice stories. I'll check out this rec for sure!

Also, what is the actual context of that panel of pre-crisis Jaspon?




> I honestly think the JayKyle shipping is especially hilarious when you realize that Kyle is even older than Dick. IIRC, he always has been between the Dick and Bruce generation, even if he is a 90's character. There are not many characters in that range of age, so I guess you have to pair him with someone outside big teams like the Justice League and the Green Lanterns. But even with that in mind, I too think they make fore some interesting dynamic (and it's true that Kyle is dreamy, not so much great: you can bet he will screw up badly something, at some point. He will get very mad too. And even if he's not dumb, he is incredible, unbelievable naive at timesand at other, very distrustful). Lots of potential for good stories there.


Kyle's older than Dick? I always got the impression he was younger because Wally and Dick seemed to be around the same age to me and I could've sworn it has been said Kyle is (or was at the time) younger than Wally. It has been a while, so I might be remembering wrong.
I think his dumb/naive moments make him endearing (though he has done some cool stuff). lol Oh man, not the first panel I saw of Kyle, but I always think of the one in GL #94 with Suberboy. 
Not really sure on the potential for good stories between Jason and Kyle, but I'd be interested, especially when I read more on Jason!

Love those other recs you listed too! They all sound good. I think I need a word document to keep track of all of this.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Zaresh

> Kyle's older than Dick? I always got the impression he was younger because Wally and Dick seemed to be around the same age to me and I could've sworn it has been said Kyle is (or was at the time) younger than Wally. It has been a while, so I might be remembering wrong.


Mmm... Maybe the dynamics where like that because Kyle was newer in the job. I recall reading somewhere that he was in that range of age (the reason why I said he was); and I think Dick never got to reach 30 before FP. I may be wrong, I'm unsure now. It's not like I've read a lot of cosmic DC (even if I've been trying to catch, because I like it), and the JL books interest me just middly. I think I'll trust you, if you say that you read in some comic that he was actually younger.




> *I think his dumb/naive moments make him endearing* (though he has done some cool stuff). lol Oh man, not the first panel I saw of Kyle, but I always think of the one in GL #94 with Suberboy.


Oh, they do. But they're so palm in the face triggering that one has to point then. He also has cool moments, for sure. I think he has a quite good range of traits that make for an enjoyable character. I'm not a fan, but I like what I've read.

----------


## Zaresh

> How to Read Jason Todd's Journey From Robin to Red Hood
> 
> The article isn't that bad. Although I would have added Batman: The Caped Crusader Vol. 1 between Second Chances and Death in the family.


I disagree in that Jason's really not an important part in The Cult, and lists Brothers in Blood without saying how skippable that book is. It does mention that Countdown is so-so (says you can skip it), but then it doesn't say anything against Battle for the Cowl (which, really, is very, very skippable). And then it mentions that you can probably be safe skipping all Morrison's run in Batman and Robin and Batman Inc. if you're only interested in Jason. I have opinions \o/.

But overall, I think it could be a very good linkable replacement for the reading guide / recom. reads in the OP.

----------


## G-Potion

> Red Artemonica


Hooo. Makes me want to see Biz and Jason in this style.

----------


## G-Potion

> How to Read Jason Todd's Journey From Robin to Red Hood
> 
> The article isn't that bad. Although I would have added Batman: The Caped Crusader Vol. 1 between Second Chances and Death in the family.


This makes me think... Can we also add links to good articles about Jason on first page? Can help clear up a lot of misinformation for people who don't read material related to him.

----------


## Zaresh

> This makes me think... Can we also add links to good articles about Jason on first page?


I guess? It's not against this board rules, right? We're linking outside websites half the time.

Unless, it is against the board rules.

----------


## G-Potion

> I guess? It's not against this board rules, right? We're linking outside websites half the time.
> 
> Unless, it is against the board rules.


I guess it's fine. Just whether you guys  think it's worth it to make a new section in the OP for it.

----------


## Zaresh

> I guess it's fine. Just whether you guys  think it's worth it to make a new section in the OP for it.


For what it's worth, I think it's a good idea. 

We love reading, it seems  :Big Grin: .

----------


## Sergard

> I guess it's fine. Just whether you guys  think it's worth it to make a new section in the OP for it.


Sure. I already had something like that in mind because I saw some nice and fun tumblr posts I wanted to share, like this one for example: Jason Tood hugs (but I wasn't able to find the link to the original post).

So If you have some interesting/helpful/fun articles to suggest, please feel free to do so. I'll edit the OP accordingly later.

----------


## Aahz

> Mmm... Maybe the dynamics where like that because Kyle was newer in the job. I recall reading somewhere that he was in that range of age (the reason why I said he was); and I think Dick never got to reach 30 before FP. I may be wrong, I'm unsure now. It's not like I've read a lot of cosmic DC (even if I've been trying to catch, because I like it), and the JL books interest me just middly. I think I'll trust you, if you say that you read in some comic that he was actually younger.


I have read somewhere that he was 24 when he got the ring.

But pre flashpoint Jason was defintally much younger than Donna and Kyle.

In Countdown he would have probaly been 18 or 19, and the other two were probaly in the mid to late 20s.

----------


## Restingvoice

Now I'm curious, anyone accurately remembers the source? When and where they told us the age in the pages of the comic?

----------


## Lirica

> Mmm... Maybe the dynamics where like that because Kyle was newer in the job. I recall reading somewhere that he was in that range of age (the reason why I said he was); and I think Dick never got to reach 30 before FP. I may be wrong, I'm unsure now. It's not like I've read a lot of cosmic DC (even if I've been trying to catch, because I like it), and the JL books interest me just middly. I think I'll trust you, if you say that you read in some comic that he was actually younger.


It's nice that you'd trust my word, but I truly don't want to be giving false information! I'll definitely see if I can find a source. Perhaps other users who frequent the appreciation threads for Wally and Dick (and Kyle if he has one) might be able to provide a source. Or even outside blogs. 
It could also be that there's discrepancies, though. In general were ages pretty consistent post-crisis?




> *Oh, they do. But they're so palm in the face triggering that one has to point then. He also has cool moments, for sure. I think he has a quite good range of traits that make for an enjoyable character.* I'm not a fan, but I like what I've read.


Very true.
--

On a more Jason-centric note: In general, does Jason's current continuity take anything from pre-crisis? I want to read his pre-crisis robin stories at some point, but I get trades more often than not, so I'd rather start with his post-crisis robin stories. Would I miss out on anything if I started there?

----------


## Zaresh

> It's nice that you'd trust my word, but I truly don't want to be giving false information! I'll definitely see if I can find a source. Perhaps other users who frequent the appreciation threads for Wally and Dick (and Kyle if he has one) might be able to provide a source. Or even outside blogs. 
> It could also be that there's discrepancies, though. In general were ages pretty consistent post-crisis?
> 
> 
> Very true.
> --
> 
> On a more Jason-centric note: In general, does Jason's current continuity take anything from pre-crisis? I want to read his pre-crisis robin stories at some point, but I get trades more often than not, so I'd rather start with his post-crisis robin stories. Would I miss out on anything if I started there?


No worries. I already asked in the Kyle appreciation thread. I hope they know and can help.

To my very limited knowledge of old stuff, the only thing that has been carried from pre-COIE with some continuity until nowadays was Jason saving the day in "For the Man Who has Everything".

----------


## Zaresh

So I got answered. Not issues, but I guess you were right, @Lirica, and he was a bit younger that Wally, but still in the Titans gen, like Aahz thought.

Seems like I was wrong \o/.




> I don't remember his direct age, but Wally mentioned pre-Flashpoint that Kyle was a bit younger than him.





> I don't think it's been established now, there are too many problem with timeline and continuity.
> Before FP he was aged as original Teen Titans members (Dick, Donna etc.).

----------


## Lirica

> No worries. I already asked in the Kyle appreciation thread. I hope they know and can help.
> 
> To my very limited knowledge of old stuff, the only thing that has been carried from pre-COIE with some continuity until nowadays was Jason saving the day in "For the Man Who has Everything".


Oh, I didn't know there was a Kyle appreciation thread. Cool! Thanks for asking!

Google tells me that it's Superman Annual #11 from 1985. That correct? I wonder if comixology has it; maybe in a collected edition if not on its own.
Also, this the comic that was the basis of the JLU episode? I didn't know Robin, let alone Jason was in it. Now I'm even more curious.

----------


## Lirica

> So I got answered. Not issues, but I guess you were right, @Lirica, and he has a bit younger that Wally, but still in the Titans gen, like Aahz thought.
> 
> Seems like I was wrong \o/.


Again, thanks for asking.

I'm still curious on the issues. I almost feels like information that keeps circulating, but is actually fanon, since the issue is unknown for now. lol

----------


## Aahz

> To my very limited knowledge of old stuff, the only thing that has been carried from pre-COIE with some continuity until nowadays was Jason saving the day in "For the Man Who has Everything".


Pre Flashpoint, his appearences in Titans and the team up with Kid Devil were afaik also still canon, post flashpoint it is hard to say if they still are.

----------


## Zaresh

> Oh, I didn't know there was a Kyle appreciation thread. Cool! Thanks for asking!
> 
> Google tells me that it's Superman Annual #11 from 1985. That correct? I wonder if comixology has it; maybe in a collected edition if not on its own.
> *Also, this the comic that was the basis of the JLU episode?* I didn't know Robin, let alone Jason was in it. Now I'm even more curious.


As far as I know, it is. It's one of the stories Alan Moore wrote for Superman that are now classics (alongside with "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?"). In the show, Robin is left out for reasonable reasons (his role is small, and the series don't show Robin iirc), but it's based in that annual, as far as I know. And it's the same story from where those famous panels of Robin, Batman and Wonder Woman with the "Think clean thoughts, chum" came.

Edit:




> Pre Flashpoint, his appearences in Titans and the team up with Kid Devil were afaik also still canon, post flashpoint it is hard to say if they still are.


Thanks! I wonder if they will bring that again, with all that has and still is happening in HiC.

----------


## Sergard

> I'm not sure if that was intentional on your part, but good Monty Python reference.  
> Oh, I have not read Countdown, though, I have heard of it (and now thinking about it I've seen fanart)--mostly to not read it. Does their animosity turn into a fight(s) over Donna? And also, what even prompted Jason to saying that line in context?


Sorry to disappoint, but it wasn't intentional. What exactly was the reference?
To be honest - I haven't read Countdown fully either. I skipped all parts without Jason, Donna and Kyle. But if you proceed like that you actually obtain a very nice multiverse-travel-story.
I think Jason was envious at that moment. Back in "Countdown" Jason was more of a lone wolf type without friends and family. Donna was a person he could connect with - and then Kyle pops up, saves Donna, behaves very flirtatious towards her and gets all her trust. Jason probably felt very bitter.




> Also, what is the actual context of that panel of pre-crisis Jason?


In the same issue Jason becomes Robin - and Jason feels a little insecure. In the two panels before the one I posted Jason says to Bruce: "All the time I bugged you to let me be your partner ... I don't think I realized what a big step it'd be ... what a change ... It'll just take some time, that's all ... getting used to being two different people."

So Bruce' comment is (probably) to be interpreted as wanting to help Jason to handle two identities.

----------


## Sergard

> Memories are fuzzy. I remember a few about Jason being Catwoman's or Ivy's sidekick, another one with him being a cop in BlÃ»dhaven, I remember reading a few in which he works for Talia after coming back from death (one was quite good and I think it was a three parter), another two about him taking into the mantle of Lady Shiva (one of which I liked a lot too, but was short lived, iirc). And at this moment those are the ones that I can remember.


Maybe that's the fanfic in which Jason becomes Ivy's sidekick? The Growth of Hemlock by TheQueenyGospels
(At least "Hemlock" is the only sidekick name I associate with Jason and Ivy.)

And here's a fanfic with Stray!Jason: Cats, Bats, Kittens, and Hatchlings by ThePackWantstheD

Here are some fics that are tied to Talia/League of Assassins/Damian. Maybe you meant one of them?
The Ties that Bind by trx
Golden by shauds
Verdant by Cerusee
Are We Living In The Darkness (Do We Listen To The Light) by MYuzuki

Here's some Arkham Knight fic in which Bruce and Jason bond:
Or any misery you choose by ithoughtslashmeanthorror ("See how deep the bullet lies"-series)

And a fic in which Jason works for Amanda Waller:
Sometimes Goodbye's the Only Way by KatastrophicTodd

----------


## Zaresh

> Maybe that's the fanfic in which Jason becomes Ivy's sidekick? The Growth of Hemlock by TheQueenyGospels
> (At least "Hemlock" is the only sidekick name I associate with Jason and Ivy.)
> 
> And here's a fanfic with Stray!Jason: Cats, Bats, Kittens, and Hatchlings by ThePackWantstheD
> 
> Here are some fics that are tied to Talia/League of Assassins/Damian. Maybe you meant one of them?
> The Ties that Bind by trx
> Golden by shauds
> Verdant by Cerusee
> ...


I know I've read some of those, and even got to link them in the previous thread  :Big Grin:  (surprising no one, I forgot to bookmark those I liked). The one with Talia I cannot remember was older. And the one with Jason as Ivy's sidekick was older as well; but that one was so-so, so it's not much of a loss for me. I'll post a new collecting list tomorrow.

In the meanwhile, I've been drawing. My initial idea was making this with markers, but I had an accident and had to switch to coloured pencils. It was a rather fast drawing, even if it took several hours to finish it. Here we have the first member of the Red Hood RPG Party: Robin The Druid.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Small interview with Lobdell

Interestingly, this is the first time where he outright admits that Jason's new outlook in life and crime fighting is not due Batman but rather, due Roy's passing.

----------


## G-Potion

Thanks for sharing, Dark! 

Interesting about why Jason decided on his new look, and it would have been clear to the readers had Jason worn it after hearing about Roy's passing. Then again, with #26 being the opener of his solo gig, maybe it was equally important that the new costume was shown in that issue.

----------


## Zaresh

> Thanks for sharing, Dark! 
> 
> Interesting about why Jason decided on his new look, and it would have been clear to the readers had Jason worn it after hearing about Roy's passing. Then again, with #26 being the opener of his solo gig, maybe it was equally important that the new costume was shown in that issue.


That's my guess as well, that given the nature and intention of issue #26 (which was showing how the new direction would go), they used the new costume. He doesn't wear it in #27, and I guess... Maybe he decided that he would keep wearing that in that issue, after Roy.

Or Lobdell just said that because it sounded better if it was connected with Roy's demise. But as far as I've seen, the man seems to be honest more often than not, and then the explanation from Woods in the D Nation special mentioned that Lobdell wanted to show how Jason was dealing with emotional hurting or something like that. So, I guess he did had Roy's death in mind, but then choose to show the costume to deliver the readers the whole new pack from the start.

(I think I'm overthinking this)

----------


## Sergard

> Small interview with Lobdell


Great cosplays. I'm a little sad that the interviewer didn't ask more RHatO specific questions.

Still six days to go until the next Red Hood: Outlaw issue is released. And I don't have any hopes that the preview will be posted online before Monday. I hate waiting for previews.

----------


## Lirica

> As far as I know, it is. It's one of the stories Alan Moore wrote for Superman that are now classics (alongside with "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?"). In the show, Robin is left out for reasonable reasons (his role is small, and the series don't show Robin iirc), but it's based in that annual, as far as I know. And it's the same story from where those famous panels of Robin, Batman and Wonder Woman with the "Think clean thoughts, chum" came.


Now I definitely want to read it. I loved the that episode and would love to see how it played out in the comic!



> Sorry to disappoint, but it wasn't intentional. What exactly was the reference?
> To be honest - I haven't read Countdown fully either. I skipped all parts without Jason, Donna and Kyle. But if you proceed like that you actually obtain a very nice multiverse-travel-story.
> I think Jason was envious at that moment. Back in "Countdown" Jason was more of a lone wolf type without friends and family. Donna was a person he could connect with - and then Kyle pops up, saves Donna, behaves very flirtatious towards her and gets all her trust. Jason probably felt very bitter.


"No one is ever expecting Jason/Kyle" immediately made me think of "Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition".     :Stick Out Tongue: 
Well, if I can just read the parts of Countdown that have Jason, Donna and Kyle in it without it being too confusing, then I'll do that! Thanks!
Ah, no wonder Jason and Kyle clash in that series then.




> In the same issue Jason becomes Robin - and Jason feels a little insecure. In the two panels before the one I posted Jason says to Bruce: "All the time I bugged you to let me be your partner ... I don't think I realized what a big step it'd be ... what a change ... It'll just take some time, that's all ... getting used to being two different people."
> 
> So Bruce' comment is (probably) to be interpreted as wanting to help Jason to handle two identities.


Gotcha. Thanks for the explanation!

----------


## Zaresh

Hello again. The Untiring Collector is coming back with a new list.

This time we are going under the theme and title: "*Jason becomes his own man*", which collects fics that deal with Jason moving on his life after coming back, or after almost dying or after whatever traumatic event has happened to him. He may have left superheroing (or being a bad guy), he may have abandoned his Red Hood alias, or he may have decided to do his own thing as the Red Hood, but away from Batman. I may put here some of the fics that deal with Jason reconnecting with his family, even if I plan to put them in another post too, because they do show Jason moving on.

Recommended by @Sergard or / and @Jackalope89:

Jason Todd - Collector of Strays, by @whatomen. On-going fanfic with over 60 chapters about Jason adopting animals and children while trying to avoid the batfamily.
—Zaresh here. It's tagged under Mature, but I would say it's pretty safe for teens too. Average canon violence, no sexual content as far as I recall, not a lot of triggers either. It's mostly a mix of fluff, drama, mystery and, well, maybe romance, maybe not.

The Ties That Bind, by @trx (dxs).
—Zaresh here. Teen audience, and so far, gen relationships. An amnesiac Jason that has work for the League dies again and Talia sends him far from them, to live a new life. He becomes a doctor in the UK, and several years later, Alfred finds him. And then the family he cannot remember starts to look for and reach him. This work is not finished at the time I'm writing this post, but it's regularly updated, and I guess it will be finished within this year.

Recommended by @Arsenal and @JasonTodd428:

From Now On, by @little_wayward_bird. "It's a great story about Jason moving on from all his sh*t and finding a good, happy life for himself in spite of all the trauma he's gone through." 
—Zaresh here. Teen audience, with canon typical violence. Jason reconnecting with his family, creating his own one, and falling in love with an original character. It's heavy in the romance, and could be taken as some soft thriller too. But it's, over all, a musical in text form. The writer clearly loves that genre and indulges themselves on it.

Autumn of Life, by @ofVellichor.
—Zaresh here. General audiences, general relationships. Jason founds his own merc team and helps the JL, I think? I haven't read it yet, so I cannot say much more.

Jason Todd: The Not-So-Outlaw, by @GoAwayOlivia.
—Zaresh here. This work is pretty good and entertaining: I highly recommend it as well. Mature audience, because it's a bit on the heavy side of violence in the last chapters. Jason comes back to Gotham after a very painful mission that uncovers his trauma to certain members of the JL, and starts making his own life outside the Batfamily. He proceeds to work on the renovation of his house. He also begins to work helping street kids. But then Tim starts to plot against his intentions of being left alone, and step by step, Jason gets back into having a family that he has chosen and that supports his efforts. Hurt/Confort, Fluff and angst.

Recommended by @G-Potion (iirc)
Help, by @Loxare. First part of the Hinder series. Jason takes base in Blüdhaven instead of Gotham when he comes back to life and starts doing his thing and, slowly but steadily, becomes the fanfave of the kids from that city. It's a collection of shorts stories. It's warm.

░▒▓▒░░▒▓▒░░▒▓▒░░▒▓▒░
In case you want to add more recs, next lists I have in mind are the ones that collect works under the time-travel and age-deage trope; the ones that deal with family matters (family drama, feels and bonding, with Bruce, Dick, Tim, Damian, or even Talia); another under the pure fantasy category, I guess; and the last one will be an assorted works list with all the other works (which is something you shouldn't do when categorizing, but it can't be helped here) like the ones under the arkhamverse. With time, once we have enough works with a shared theme in that assorted list, I'll branch a new post for them.

Let me know if you have new recs for the lists that have already been written or you noticed I've skipped any. I'll add new ones in those lists too, as I skim over them and learn what they're about (for the sake of backing the rec and adding info).

----------


## Rac7d*

Welcome to young justice
and since when is he the prince of gotham

----------


## G-Potion

Hell yeah Young Justice.

https://comicbook.com/dc/2019/01/11/...on-todd-alive/

@Rac7d*: It's more like Damned Prince of Gotham but because of character limit on the thread title, it had to be shortened. However he was also called Prince of Gotham by Alfred in the first RHATO series. It's an endearment not official title but it fits the character.

----------


## G-Potion

Nice work *@Zaresh*. I'll remember to bookmark fics I like so that I can contribute to this list. :3

----------


## Sergard

> Welcome to young justice
> and since when is he the prince of gotham


Here are the (two) panels in which Jason is called Prince of Gotham. As G-Potion has stated, it's not an official name but it holds a lot of emotional value. And the next story arc of RHatO is called "Prince of Gotham".

And thanks for the information about Young Justice  :Smile: .

----------


## G-Potion

You can see how Jason looks in YJ here. Don't know if he'll eventually wear the helmet but looks like DC's sticking to the separate mouthpiece/visor idea for the time being.

http://dailydcheroes.tumblr.com/post/181925544453

----------


## Zaresh

> Welcome to young justice
> and since when is he the prince of gotham





> Hell yeah Young Justice.
> 
> https://comicbook.com/dc/2019/01/11/...on-todd-alive/


Yes, yes. Yes. YES!




> Nice work *@Zaresh*. I'll remember to bookmark fics I like so that I can contribute to this list. :3


Thanks! And that would be prerfect  :Cool: . We can collect and list a few fanartists too: I'm way less informed that any of you in that field (despite me liking to draw, ironically).




> You can see how Jason looks in YJ here. Don't know if he'll eventually wear the helmet but looks like DC's sticking to the separate mouthpiece/visor idea for the time being.
> 
> http://dailydcheroes.tumblr.com/post/181925544453


YYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSS!!!

I didn't expect that this soon. Woah! I'm so happy.

----------


## Sergard

I really like Jason interacting with the Al Ghul family. Ra's, Talia and Damian are such interesting characters.
And somehow Ra's is way nicer in the UtRH movie and seemingly in the Young Justice cartoon compared to his comic counterpart.
I'm not so fond of Jason's visor. It looks a little bit like a game-pad. But I love the similarities to Jason's current comic design. That makes we wonder if the similarities are really completely coincidental.

----------


## Arsenal

Not a fan of the visor, but if it’s the worst thing about the YJ version I’ll glady accept it.

----------


## G-Potion

> I really like Jason interacting with the Al Ghul family. Ra's, Talia and Damian are such interesting characters.
> And somehow Ra's is way nicer in the UtRH movie and seemingly in the Young Justice cartoon compared to his comic counterpart.
> *I'm not so fond of Jason's visor. It looks a little bit like a game-pad. But I love the similarities to Jason's current comic design.* That makes we wonder if the similarities are really completely coincidental.


Yeah I like it mostly because of the similarity to his comic design but still I find it completely fitting that Jason's visor would be just as extra as his personality. ;p

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Keep in mind, that is just LoS gear with a red hood thrown in.

----------


## JasonTodd428

> In the meanwhile, I've been drawing. My initial idea was making this with markers, but I had an accident and had to switch to coloured pencils. It was a rather fast drawing, even if it took several hours to finish it. Here we have the first member of the Red Hood RPG Party: Robin The Druid.


I like this pic a lot. I really love your work, Zaresh. Also thanks for making lists for the fanfic suggestions people have made. That's really helpful.




> Hell yeah Young Justice.
> 
> https://comicbook.com/dc/2019/01/11/...on-todd-alive/.


That's great news G. Thanks for posting that.

----------


## babybats

> You can see how Jason looks in YJ here. Don't know if he'll eventually wear the helmet but looks like DC's sticking to the separate mouthpiece/visor idea for the time being.
> 
> http://dailydcheroes.tumblr.com/post/181925544453


Damn, I need to watch this.  This is so exciting (and straight out of fanfic lol).  Talia looks just like her new 52 animated movie-verse design.  Jason's design isn't too exciting, but it's not so bad.  The set up is cool.  We're going to have a Winter Soldier situation I guess.  And--the baby!  :Embarrassment: 




> Keep in mind, that is just LoS gear with a red hood thrown in.


My brain is dumb and I read that as "League of 'Sassins" just now.

----------


## G-Potion

> 


I completely missed this somehow. If it wasn't for *@JasonTodd428* quoting it.... D: This is a very cool design *@Zaresh*. I like that the rough and natural feel of the texture of his clothes is just so druid-ish, the color scheme as well. And that headgear is adorable. Are you going to make a complete set for the RPG party? I would love to see.  :Big Grin:

----------


## JasonTodd428

> I completely missed this somehow. If it wasn't for *@JasonTodd428* quoting it.... D: This is a very cool design *@Zaresh*. I like that the rough and natural feel of the texture of his clothes is just so druid-ish, the color scheme as well. And that headgear is adorable. Are you going to make a complete set for the RPG party? I would love to see.


I'd love to see a complete set of these as well Zaresh. Please say your making one because I'd also love to see it.

----------


## Sergard

Are Ra's, Jason, Talia and Damian at the same place or are they at two different locations? I want Jason and baby Damian to interact.

----------


## G-Potion

Hahaha Josh Keaton is his voice actor. Are they doing this on purpose.  :Big Grin:

----------


## G-Potion

http://constellationgrayson.tumblr.c...t/181926473698

----------


## G-Potion

More pics here. 

http://constellationgrayson.tumblr.c...t/181926626148

----------


## Zaresh

> I completely missed this somehow. If it wasn't for *@JasonTodd428* quoting it.... D: This is a very cool design *@Zaresh*. I like that the rough and natural feel of the texture of his clothes is just so druid-ish, the color scheme as well. And that headgear is adorable. Are you going to make a complete set for the RPG party? I would love to see.





> I'd love to see a complete set of these as well Zaresh. Please say your making one because I'd also love to see it.


Yeeeeep, the whole six-pack set:Robin, the DruidHood, the RogueKnight, the RangerCardinal, the PriestPrince, the SorcererWingman, the Paladin
And a one-shot story of how he played those in the universe of the fanfic I was writing, but further in the future of the story. It's basically crack and fun about people who haven't played an RPG before (based on pure experience).

Glad you guys like it so much: it means a lot for me ^___^. If anyone wants anything, I usually break my time studying or writing with my drawings (it relaxes me a lot). I can also colour line art digitally. I work slowly, but feel free to ask: I take requests easily :3.

----------


## G-Potion

Now I'm just as eager for your fanfic. Have you written any Jason fic before? :3

----------


## G-Potion

> Are Ra's, Jason, Talia and Damian at the same place or are they at two different locations? I want Jason and baby Damian to interact.


Looks like two places. Talia and Damian are indoor while Jason's somewhere outdoor.

----------


## Zaresh

> Now I'm just as eager for your fanfic. Have you written any Jason fic before? :3


Nope, it will be the first time. I want to add him like in episode three... and I am barely starting episode one, which only has a few Marvel characters and a few OC in it. I'm not the most diligent writer, I've not written a chapter in two months now, even if I have outlined and I have gotten the first episode story very detailed already. Jason will play a big part though (given that I've now made the MC a character from an alternate DC universe and he was his godfather there. It's the reason why I was reading about the Spectre the other day, actually).

----------


## Zaresh

> Hahaha Josh Keaton is his voice actor. Are they doing this on purpose.


I had to look for who this voice actor is.
Ha ha! Shiro. I... Hah, that's funny.

I watch Voltron in VO, so I know how he sounds. Yep, irony aside, I like it.

----------


## JasonTodd428

> Yeeeeep, the whole six-pack set:Robin, the DruidHood, the RogueKnight, the RangerCardinal, the PriestPrince, the SorcererWingman, the Paladin
> And a one-shot story of how he played those in the universe of the fanfic I was writing, but further in the future of the story. It's basically crack and fun about people who haven't played an RPG before (based on pure experience).
> 
> Glad you guys like it so much: it means a lot for me ^___^. If anyone wants anything, I usually break my time studying or writing with my drawings (it relaxes me a lot). I can also colour line art digitally. I work slowly, but feel free to ask: I take requests easily :3.


That's awesome. I look forward to seeing what the rest look like. I used to do a lot of tabletop RPGing back in the day so I am familar with the character classes there. I'm also looking forward to that seeing that fanfic as well. 

As for a request... Red Hood as a samurai has always been something I've wanted to see so of you could draw that for me that would be awesome.

----------


## JasonTodd428

> I had to look for who this voice actor is.
> Ha ha! Shiro. I... Hah, that's funny.
> 
> I watch Voltron in VO, so I know how he sounds. Yep, irony aside, I like it.


I also found that ironic but I like it. As someone who also watches Voltron I think it's very fitting.

----------


## Zaresh

> As for a request... Red Hood as a samurai has always been something I've wanted to see so of you could draw that for me that would be awesome.


Gotcha. I'm thinking about pairing it with another fanart of Dick in a Shinsengumi costume too.

----------


## Lirica

> In the meanwhile, I've been drawing. My initial idea was making this with markers, but I had an accident and had to switch to coloured pencils. It was a rather fast drawing, even if it took several hours to finish it. Here we have the first member of the Red Hood RPG Party: Robin The Druid.


I'm not exactly sure what the Red Hood RPG Party is, but I love the drawing! You're art is wonderful!  :Big Grin: 




> Hell yeah Young Justice.
> 
> https://comicbook.com/dc/2019/01/11/...on-todd-alive/


YES, this is awesome!!!! Jason's first animated appearance since UtRH, correct?  I might have to catch up on YJ just for this!




> Damn, I need to watch this.  This is so exciting (and straight out of fanfic lol).


The first thing that crossed my mind (after the initial excitement) was the  feeling that I've read this plot in a fanfic before. lol




> Hahaha Josh Keaton is his voice actor. Are they doing this on purpose.


I am confused. What is this in reference to? I only know Josh Keaton from the GL:TAS as Hal.

----------


## G-Potion

> I am confused. What is this in reference to? I only know Josh Keaton from the GL:TAS as Hal.


Do you watch Voltron? Josh Keaton is the voice actor for Shiro, who shares a couple of similarities to Jason that the fans definitely noticed.

----------


## JasonTodd428

> Gotcha. I'm thinking about pairing it with another fanart of Dick in a Shinsengumi costume too.


That sounds great. I never knew I needed a "Dick in a Shinsengumi costume" fan art until you mentioned it.   :Big Grin:

----------


## G-Potion

https://mobile.twitter.com/Holdp_A
If this is indeed Jason... Damn the artist is good _and fast_.

----------


## JasonTodd428

> Do you watch Voltron? Josh Keaton is the voice actor for Shiro, who shares a couple of similarities to Jason that the fans definitely noticed.


Yeah, its a pretty fitting voice casting.

----------


## G-Potion

> Yeeeeep, the whole six-pack set:Robin, the DruidHood, the RogueKnight, the RangerCardinal, the PriestPrince, the SorcererWingman, the Paladin


*@Zaresh*: With YJ3 Jason... How would the party look now? ;p

----------


## Zaresh

> https://mobile.twitter.com/Holdp_A
> If this is indeed Jason... Damn the artist is good _and fast_.


Yeeeep.

About the costume in YJ, it's a funny coincidence that Jason's LoS costume looks so much like our current one, when we know the RHATO redesign creative process behind, and I'm sure this YJ chara design have to be at least from late 2017.

----------


## Lirica

> Do you watch Voltron? Josh Keaton is the voice actor for Shiro, who shares a couple of similarities to Jason that the fans definitely noticed.


No, I don't watch Voltron and have no idea who Shiro is, so no wonder I didn't get what you were referring to. lol

Not just here either. I now know what the recent posts in the Jason tag on tumblr are referring to when they mention Shiro.

----------


## Sergard

Short clip. Now I'm getting really hyped. And I don't even have DC Universe.

----------


## Zaresh

> *@Zaresh*: With YJ3 Jason... How would the party look now? ;p


Hummm... A seventh member. Let's see. We don't have a name yet, and, er, ninjas! So, Nanashi (anonymous). And for the class, well, I don't want to put him in the assassin class because it's tied to certain traits I don't see fitting. So maybe a plain fighter, but a ninja as secondary class? I'm not sure you can access the ninja class from a fighter. But I know ninjas need a first class as a cover, so...  :Cool:

----------


## Arsenal

> Are Ra's, Jason, Talia and Damian at the same place or are they at two different locations? I want Jason and baby Damian to interact.


Just watched the episode. They are at the same location.

----------


## Sergard

> No, I don't watch Voltron and have no idea who Shiro is, so no wonder I didn't get what you were referring to. lol
> 
> Not just here either. I now know what the recent posts in the Jason tag on tumblr are referring to when they mention Shiro.


You are not the only one who was confused when suddenly Voltron fanarts popped up on tumblr pages that beforehand were known for a lot of Jason Todd content.
At first I even confused the character Shiro with Jason because of the white streak in his hair and didn't understand why Jason suddenly had this strange scar on his face.

But I read some comments by tumblr users that they started Voltron exactly because of the similarities between Jason and Shiro. Some part of me hopes that Josh Keaton was chosen for Jason on purpose.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I'm not exactly sure what the Red Hood RPG Party is, but I love the drawing! You're art is wonderful! 
> 
> 
> *YES, this is awesome!!!! Jason's first animated appearance since UtRH, correct?  I might have to catch up on YJ just for this!*
> 
> 
> The first thing that crossed my mind (after the initial excitement) was the  feeling that I've read this plot in a fanfic before. lol
> 
> 
> I am confused. What is this in reference to? I only know Josh Keaton from the GL:TAS as Hal.


Second. Jason was in Batman Ninja.

----------


## Sergard

> Second. Jason was in Batman Ninja.


Does "Batman: Gotham by Gaslight" count too?

----------


## Zaresh

> Does "Batman: Gotham by Gaslight" count too?


And then Jason appeared in the S2 of YJ too, even if it was just an image.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Josh Keaton was also Spiderman on Spectacular Spiderman

----------


## Jackalope89

> Does "Batman: Gotham by Gaslight" count too?


Forgot about that one.

----------


## Lirica

> You are not the only one who was confused when suddenly Voltron fanarts popped up on tumblr pages that beforehand were known for a lot of Jason Todd content.
> At first I even confused the character Shiro with Jason because of the white streak in his hair and didn't understand why Jason suddenly had this strange scar on his face.
> 
> But I read some comments by tumblr users that they started Voltron exactly because of the similarities between Jason and Shiro. Some part of me hopes that Josh Keaton was chosen for Jason on purpose.


I just looked up  what Shiro looks like and yeah I can see the similarities like with the white streak. I don't understand it, though. Pretty much all of the fanart I've seen has the streak, but most comic panels do not. Where'd it come from?

I've heard it said that the YJ cartoon creators do stuff that could be thought of as coincidental, but is totally on purpose. I'm willing to believe getting Josh Keaton was on purpose too.




> Second. Jason was in Batman Ninja.


I've never seen this animated feature. Does Jason have a big role or is it a cameo? In either case, is the movie worth watching?




> Does "Batman: Gotham by Gaslight" count too?


I forgot about Gotham by Gaslight too. lol I even own the movie.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I just looked up  what Shiro looks like and yeah I can see the similarities like with the white streak. I don't understand it, though. Pretty much all of the fanart I've seen has the streak, but most comic panels do not. Where'd it come from?
> 
> I've heard it said that the YJ cartoon creators do stuff that could be thought of as coincidental, but is totally on purpose. I'm willing to believe getting Josh Keaton was on purpose too.
> 
> 
> I've never seen this animated feature. Does Jason have a big role or is it a cameo? In either case, is the movie worth watching?
> 
> 
> I forgot about Gotham by Gaslight too. lol I even own the movie.


Batman Ninja was made in Japan, with a lot of anime over the top aspects to it. And Jason does have a role, and quite the scene when he comes across Joker and Harley that fits him to a tee.

Really, the only character that is out of character is Damian (minus his love of animals).

----------


## Aahz

> I just looked up  what Shiro looks like and yeah I can see the similarities like with the white streak. I don't understand it, though. Pretty much all of the fanart I've seen has the streak, but most comic panels do not. Where'd it come from?


From Batman:Hush.

In Batman Hush (which happend a few story arc before Under the Red Hood) Clayface fas posing as Jason, and he had a white streak and fought with Bruce. Later after the "Under the Red Hood" they retconned, that this was actually Jason how at some point during the fight switched places with Clayface.

----------


## Zaresh

> From Batman:Hush.
> 
> In Batman Hush (which happend a few story arc before Under the Red Hood) Clayface fas posing as Jason, and he had a white streak and fought with Bruce. Later after the "Under the Red Hood" they retconned, that this was actually Jason how at some point during the fight switched places with Clayface.


There is also the whole point of Shiro being MIA, or the characters thinking he was KIA, until he was not. And the experiments, and him being a slave for fighting contests. I mean, I can see how fans can draw parallels xD.

----------


## OpaqueGiraffe17

Funny, I think Jason's only had one line, but I'm pretty sure that's more than Tim gotten this season.

----------


## kaimaciel

OMG!! I just got home from work and my world exploded! I knew Jason was going to be in YJ! I'm screaming!

Please let us see him in more episodes!

And he's voiced by favorite Spider-Man!!

----------


## RedBird

HOLY MOLY!!

I stay off the internet for like two days and the world implodes XD

Seriously though, this is SUPER exciting, Jason and Damian revealed! And they are both within the LoS??
I swear I have seen this premise before in fanfics and fanart!

This show better be coming to Netflix soon, the whole gang is here apparently, and bless Weisman for keeping his promise about Jason.

I swear just yesterday I was telling a friend that even IF Jason was brought back this season, Weisman would have to create an alternate story line to UTRH since well, he has already done that, and as a writer you would want to change things up a bit, and Gosh dang it, what glorious timing.

----------


## Zaresh

> HOLY MOLY!!
> 
> I stay off the internet for like two days and the world implodes XD
> 
> Seriously though, this is SUPER exciting, Jason and Damian revealed! And they are both within the LoS??
> I swear I have seen this premise before in fanfics and fanart!
> 
> This show better be coming to Netflix soon, the whole gang is here apparently, and bless Weisman for keeping his promise about Jason.
> 
> I swear just yesterday I was telling a friend that even IF Jason was brought back this season, Weisman would have to create an alternate story line to UTRH since well, he has already done that, and as a writer you would want to change things up a bit, and Gosh dang it, what glorious timing.


Which reminds me that Titans is finally in Netflix, for those that want to watch it outside the US (I plan to rewatch it).

Also, unrelated, but I'm changing YJ Jason from Ninja to Samurai.

----------


## babybats

> I've never seen this animated feature. Does Jason have a big role or is it a cameo? In either case, is the movie worth watching?


The animation in Batman Ninja is amazing.  I rented it on Amazon, watched it, and then bought it because I wanted to watch it again and again.  The plot is nonsense, the English dub voice acting is kinda not great sometimes (definitely prefer the Japanese audio), but it has some of the best animators in Japan working on it and it's so good.  Highly recommend if you're an animation fan.

----------


## Alycat

While the comics are hit or miss, outside media for the Batfam is booming. So glad to see Jason in YJ.

----------


## Darkspellmaster

> Josh Keaton was also Spiderman on Spectacular Spiderman


He's also young Hercules for Disney.

Was kinda hoping for Jensen from UtRH movie to come back. But Josh has the chops to pull it off I think.

----------


## Alycat

Kinda wonder how old YJ Jason is suppose to be. Did he stop aging? Is he older or the same age as Tim?

----------


## RedBird

Fan artists just don't take breaks do they XD

askhungryeren

----------


## Zaresh

> Fan artists just don't take breaks do they XD
> 
> askhungryeren


When you have this idea in your head and it doesn't leave you in peace until you materialize it outside your head... I can relate. Also, weeelp, the first ones always will be more shared. That's a plus for motivating being fast (and diligent. It's a good motivator, it motives a good trait).

----------


## Darkspellmaster

You know as long as they keep Jason from slerpi g with Talia and him being Damian's daddy, I'm good with his design.

----------


## Aahz

> Kinda wonder how old YJ Jason is suppose to be. Did he stop aging? Is he older or the same age as Tim?


If you can trust this fanpage he should be chronological be 18 at the moment.

Btw. how much have the other Batfamily characters appeared sofar in the new season? And is Barbara Oracle now?

----------


## kaimaciel

> Kinda wonder how old YJ Jason is suppose to be. Did he stop aging? Is he older or the same age as Tim?


According to Greg Weisman, he was 10 in 2010. The show takes place during 2018, so he's 18 years old.

----------


## K7P5V

> Josh Keaton was also Spiderman on Spectacular Spiderman


Definitely good times. An all-time favorite of mine.

----------


## K7P5V

> From Batman:Hush.
> 
> In Batman Hush (which happend a few story arc before Under the Red Hood) Clayface fas posing as Jason, and he had a white streak and fought with Bruce. Later after the "Under the Red Hood" they retconned, that this was actually Jason how at some point during the fight switched places with Clayface.


That's so cool. I never realized that. How did Jason's fans react to this _retcon_?

----------


## Restingvoice

> From Batman:Hush.
> 
> In Batman Hush (which happend a few story arc before Under the Red Hood) Clayface fas posing as Jason, and he had a white streak and fought with Bruce. Later after the "Under the Red Hood" they retconned, that this was actually Jason how at some point during the fight switched places with Clayface.


I don't understand the need for this. Seems unnecessarily complicated. Why can't it just be Clayface the whole time. Even the panel support this. During their fight in the graveyard Jason did the exact same flipping and kicking Dick did in the previous issue. That works perfectly for the story's idea that Clayface Jason is mimicking Dick's movement because he didn't know how Jason moves.

----------


## Lirica

> Batman Ninja was made in Japan, with a lot of anime over the top aspects to it. And Jason does have a role, and quite the scene when he comes across Joker and Harley that fits him to a tee.
> 
> Really, the only character that is out of character is Damian (minus his love of animals).


That's really interesting. I didn't know it was made in Japan. Is it based on a story arc or is it an original plot they came up with?

I'm not too familiar with Damian or any bat family member that wasn't in BTAS (besides Jason now), so I don't think I'd notice any ooc moments.



> From Batman:Hush.
> 
> In Batman Hush (which happend a few story arc before Under the Red Hood) Clayface fas posing as Jason, and he had a white streak and fought with Bruce. Later after the "Under the Red Hood" they retconned, that this was actually Jason how at some point during the fight switched places with Clayface.


Ah, so technically at first it wasn't even supposed to be him. I wonder what made the look so memorable. Was it because it's shortly before him becoming Red Hood? It definitely would have him easily recognized in the sea of bat family guys. lol  :Stick Out Tongue: 




> The animation in Batman Ninja is amazing.  I rented it on Amazon, watched it, and then bought it because I wanted to watch it again and again.  The plot is nonsense, the English dub voice acting is kinda not great sometimes (definitely prefer the Japanese audio), but it has some of the best animators in Japan working on it and it's so good.  Highly recommend if you're an animation fan.


Kinda sounds a bit like the anime I used to watch when I was more into that. Definitely interested in the animation, though. I'll probably rent the movie and maybe buy the BD depending on how much I like it.

----------


## Aahz

> I wonder what made the look so memorable.


I guess it was because it was the frist time they had an adult Jason in the comics. And Hush is a pretty popular story arc.

I'm actually wandering more why it never caught on in the comics, the white streak seems pretty popular among fans and is quit iconic.

----------


## Sergard

> I guess it was because it was the frist time they had an adult Jason in the comics. And Hush is a pretty popular story arc.
> 
> I'm actually wandering more why it never caught on in the comics, the white streak seems pretty popular among fans and is quit iconic.


I heard two different reasons why the white streak was retconned.
1) some artists forgot to draw it, therefore there was an inconsistency in appearance
2) Jason looked too old with the white streak

I'm indifferent about the white streak. Some fan artworks make it look really cool. And in comics it's more the artstyle of the artist that dictates how old Jason looks than the white streak.
I just don't want the white streak to be a consequence of the Lazarus pit - there are a lot of characters that were dumped into it and none of them had an white streak afterwards.

Or maybe DC wants Jason to look the same in all media - and not in all of them Jason was dead and resurrected in his coffin.

----------


## G-Potion

http://orange-mimosa.tumblr.com/post/181933773182

----------


## Zaresh

> I heard two different reasons why the white streak was retconned.
> 1) some artists forgot to draw it, therefore there was an inconsistency in appearance
> 2) Jason looked too old with the white streak
> 
> I'm indifferent about the white streak. Some fan artworks make it look really cool. And in comics it's more the artstyle of the artist that dictates how old Jason looks than the white streak.
> I just don't want the white streak to be a consequence of the Lazarus pit - there are a lot of characters that were dumped into it and none of them had an white streak afterwards.
> 
> Or maybe DC wants Jason to look the same in all media - and not in all of them Jason was dead and resurrected in his coffin.


There is the issue with Jason Blood having a white streak in his auburn/dark brown hair too, iirc.

----------


## Jackalope89

So, not only do we get Young Justice series back, but we also have Jason in it! 

And, yeah. Came across a few fanfics as well that had Jay as a sort of bodyguard for young Damian, in a literal red hood and mask, and not remembering his life before he died until he saw Dick again.

And while I love UtRH, both film and comic, it just doesn't seem like it would fit in this universe. But I am excited to see where they take Jason's story in this series.

Damian, well, he has a few years yet before he can really contribute here.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Ah, so technically at first it wasn't even supposed to be him. I wonder what made the look so memorable. Was it because it's shortly before him becoming Red Hood? It definitely would have him easily recognized in the sea of bat family guys. lol


Jason in general was a continuity and writing mess since his resurrection and up to the N52. Unlike say, Bucky, there was no real plans or ideas for Jason's resurrection. Winnick simply thought it would be neat to have him as a one off villain. When turned out fans loved him, then was when he scrambled to justify his return, clumsily retconnig Hush and tying the whole thing to IC.

Afterwards, Jason was used as writers saw fit without caring about keeping his character consistent and often, just for sheer shock value. 

When Countdown happened, it seemed like editorial had decided on a direction for him, but between the poor reception and Morrison doing things his way, they backpedaled hard at the end to undo all work on Jason and push him under the rug again.

After that, Daniels decided to turn Jason into Dick's Joker but luckily, that didn't panned out either. Finally, with the animated movie being a big success and the reboot looming into the horizon, editorial was able to find a direction for Jason and stick to it until now.

That said, I never liked the white streak, is sort of a generic characteristic for "badass and brooding" characters and there was nothing justifying its existence in the comics (unlike Parallax's streak) so I was happy to see it go.

----------


## Sergard

Since the OP is too long, I had to outsource some information in separate posts. Following, one finds special moments of Jason Todd and:


*Bruce Wayne/Batman*
Jason's adoptive father, Jason and Bruce have a very complicated relationship with ups and downs
_special moments_:

Batman #408 - Jason tries to steal the tyres of the batmobile, gets caught and adopted by Batman (post-crisis introduction of Jason)Batman #426429 - Bruce can't save Jason, Jason is killed by the Joker (Death in the family, death in #428)Batman #635-641, 645-650, Annual #25 - Jason returns as the Red Hood (Batman: Under the Hood)

"I know I failed you. But ... I tried to save you, Jason. I'm ... I'm trying to save you now."
Bruce Wayne (Batman #650)

Red Hood and the Outlaws #3 [2011-2015] - small flashback of Robin Jason being sick, Batman and Robin take a night offRed Hood and the Outlaws #18 [2011-2015] - Jason recovers at the manor from Joker's attack, Bruce and Jason hug

"Jason, it's time - it's time to come back home. For Good."
Bruce Wayne (Red Hood and the Outlaws #18 [2011-2015])

Red Hood/Arsenal #5 - Jason visits an amnesic Bruce who works in a youth center, Bruce and Jason hug

"Bruce Wayne is alive. That's all that really matters."
Jason Todd (Red Hood/Arsenal #5)

Red Hood and the Outlaws Rebirth - Bruce and Jason make a deal that Jason can stay and operate in Gotham if he doesn't kill

"My city. My rules. You get *one strike*, Jason. If I think for an *instant* you're in too deep - I'm pulling you out. If you take *one* life - for whatever reason ... I'm coming for you."
Bruce Wayne (Red Hood and the Outlaws Rebirth)

Red Hood and the Outlaws #25 [2016 - ] - Bruce and Jason fight (okay, Bruce fights; Jason is more of a punching bag) after Jason has "killed" Penguin

No more jokes, Jason. No more excuses. No more *RED HOOD*!"
Bruce Wayne (Red Hood and the Outlaws #25 [2016 - ])

Red Hood and the Outlaws #27 [2016 - ] - Bruce tells Jason about Roy's death, Jason isn't allowed to return to Gotham, Bruce and Jason hug

*Alfred Pennyworth*
the Wayne-butler and grandfather-figure to all Robins
_special moments_:

Batman #410 - Alfred is worried about the safety of the new RobinRed Hood and the Outlaws #18 [2011 - 2015] - Alfred cares for Jason, who was attacked by the Joker

"Come back to us, you prince of Gotham."
Alfred Pennyworth (Red Hood and the Outlaws #18 [2011-2015])

Red Hood and the Outlaws #7 [2016 - ] - Jason asks Alfred if he was a disappointment to BruceRed Hood and the Outlaws #21 [2016 - ] - Jason talks to Alfred about his vigilante worriesTeen Titans #26 [2016 - ] - Alfred defends Jason

----------


## Sergard

Maybe a little slash-y but still a beautiful fanart. (And I love how fast some artists react to new information/appearances)



(source)

----------


## Sergard

Found some cool League of Assassins Jason fanart on tumblr. The artwork is from 2016 and was re-posted because of the reveal in Young Justice. But the artist states in the tags that they will do a new artwork. So I'm excited. (Source)

----------


## RedBird

The floodgates have opened

kittynomore



kirantic



teaitis

----------


## RedBird

m4stry



hexwake



jadeowl19

----------


## G-Potion

Woow so many!!!   :Big Grin:

----------


## Zaresh

I wonder what personality he will get. We never got to know him as Robin in the show, and now that he's a zombie, it's going to be hard to get the gist to it. Could be the fanfictiony / Morrisoon angry, overdramatic and loud take; the hurt, melancholic and conflicting but still provocative and playfull and often reserved from Winnick and Lobdell, or something new and different.

----------


## AJpyro

As long as the Man Josh voices him, its all good.

----------


## Sergard

There is already a short fanfic using the reveal in Young Justice:

Gray...son? by Qais


And completely unrelated, I just found this artwork which was drawn in 2016 but I still want to share it in case not everyone knows it. (source)

----------


## Aahz

I'm currently hearing an old German Batman Audio Play Series from the late 80s that is kind of a continuation of Batman '89. The first episode is Basically a retelling of the movie with that Joker survives the fall from the the cathedral in the end.
I used to own olny the second episode as a kid, and just came across all 9 episodes.

I'm currently at Episode 3 "Die Schüler des Verbrechens" (= the pupils of crime) , and that Episode is basically a retelling of Jason's origin story, the only big differences are that crime school is not run by Ma Gunn but by "Bob the Goon" (at behalf of the Joker who needed new henchmen) and that Jason doesn't become Robin and is in the end of the Episode taken in by Commissioner Gordon (I have to see if Jason will pop up in later episodes but I doubt it).

Also it seems like his parents are still alive, his father is in prison and he says something like his mother is living 300 miles away.

----------


## Sergard

Blonde!Undercover!Jason by tanekore. (and a dark haired variant) (source)

----------


## RedBird

solarisarts

----------


## Sergard

Mia (@btmjaybirb)




六骨@YJs3で死ぬ (@Dhoni10Cutter23)

----------


## Sergard

НОЧКА (@no_CH_ka)

----------


## Sergard

-IZEFIA-111 (@ao8562)





Louna Ashasou (@LounaAshasou)

----------


## G-Potion

All these are beautiful @Sergard.

On another note, I can't wait until Jason's visor starts emoting.

----------


## Sergard

Artworks were posted in December but haven't been shared in the old thread. So I hope it's okay when I post them now.

source

----------


## Sergard

Since the OP is too long, I had to outsource some information in separate posts. Following, one finds special moments of Jason Todd and:


*the Todd family*
*Willis Todd/Solitary* - Jason's father who is presumed dead but who is actually very alive. The story of his return is closely connected with two other names: Solitary and the second Wingman (The first Wingman was Jason Todd in _Batman Incorporated_).
_special moments_:
Red Hood and the Outlaws #19 [2016 - ] - introduction of SolitaryRed Hood and the Outlaws #23 [2016 - ] - Jason reads Willis' letters sent from prison years ago for the first timeRed Hood and the Outlaws #25 [2016 - ] - Ma Gunn recognizes her son WillisRed Hood: Outlaw             #30 [2016 - ] - Jason and Solitary finally meet
"So this is *Gotham*. Your Home. You're gonna be everything I *never* was. A damned Prince of Gotham. I'm gonna keep you safe. Be a dad you can look up to."
Willis Todd (Red Hood and the Outlaws #23 [2016 - ])
*Catherine Todd* - Jason's mother, presumed dead (but who knows, the Todd family isn't known for staying dead.)
_special moments_:
Red Hood and the Outlaws #23 [2016 - ] - appears in flashbacks (Willis' letters) only
*Faye Gunn/Ma Gunn* - Willis' mother and Jason's grandmother that he doesn't know about
_special moments_:
Batman #408-409 - first appearanceRed Hood and the Outlaws #1 [2016 - ] - re-introduction of Ma Gunn in current continuityRed Hood and the Outlaws #12 [2016 - ] - Ma Gunn takes care of a weakened Bizarro and finds Willis' lettersRed Hood and the Outlaws #25 [2016 - ] - Ma Gunn meets her son Willis after years of separation
"I deserve my fate. I'll be fine. I've grown accustomed to the dark."
Ma Gunn (Red Hood and the Outlaws #25 [2016 - ])*Faye Gunn* - Jason's cousin
_special moments_:
Red Hood and the Outlaws #21-22 [2016 - ] - introduction
"I'm just trying to understand what she sees in you. She seems to think you're special."
Faye Gunn to Jason Todd about Ma Gunn (Red Hood and the Outlaws #22 [2016 - ])

----------


## Lirica

> I guess it was because it was the frist time they had an adult Jason in the comics. And Hush is a pretty popular story arc.
> 
> I'm actually wandering more why it never caught on in the comics, the white streak seems pretty popular among fans and is quit iconic.


That makes sense. I wonder if the animated movie that has (I think) been announced will have a white-streaked Jason then.

Based on the responses you got for why the white streak never caught on, I can sorta see why it didn't, but a part of me kinda wish it did, probably because of all the fanart I've seen.  :Stick Out Tongue: 




> 2) Jason looked too old with the white streak
> 
> I'm indifferent about the white streak. Some fan artworks make it look really cool. And in comics it's more the artstyle of the artist that dictates how old Jason looks than the white streak.


This part is interesting to me. I could've sworn I've seen, either from when I used to lurk on these boards and/or the Jason tag on tumblr, that Jason tends to get drawn much older than he should be. is this true?




> Jason in general was a continuity and writing mess since his resurrection and up to the N52. Unlike say, Bucky, there was no real plans or ideas for Jason's resurrection. Winnick simply thought it would be neat to have him as a one off villain. When turned out fans loved him, then was when he scrambled to justify his return, clumsily retconnig Hush and tying the whole thing to IC.
> 
> Afterwards, Jason was used as writers saw fit without caring about keeping his character consistent and often, just for sheer shock value. 
> 
> When Countdown happened, it seemed like editorial had decided on a direction for him, but between the poor reception and Morrison doing things his way, they backpedaled hard at the end to undo all work on Jason and push him under the rug again.
> 
> After that, Daniels decided to turn Jason into Dick's Joker but luckily, that didn't panned out either. Finally, with the animated movie being a big success and the reboot looming into the horizon, editorial was able to find a direction for Jason and stick to it until now.
> 
> That said, I never liked the white streak, is sort of a generic characteristic for "badass and brooding" characters and there was nothing justifying its existence in the comics (unlike Parallax's streak) so I was happy to see it go.


Thank you for this in-depth explanation!  :Big Grin:

----------


## Zaresh

Here comes a new fanfic list about the tropes *Time Travel and Aging / De-aging*, as promised.

The View From Jade, by *@lowflyingfruit*. Jason ends transported to the past, to the first days of Bruce as Batman, when he still doesn't have a Robin, and, call him overprotective, but he decides that he won't let happen the chance of Dick becoming a child crimefighter. Teen audience, no ships, but brotherly love. Well, unless the final chapters change that. It feels like the story is about to end, but the chapter count doesn't mark a definite number of chapters. I like this fick a lot.

Show me Yesterday, for I can’t Find Today, by *@redtruthed*. Jason gets hit by something and gets transported to the past, just before he is about to find his death, while the young Jason of that times is transported to the future at the same time. A lot of drama and family bonding. Teen readers, no shippy, and foul language.

Death Sucks (and then you Live), by *@CaptainOzone*. A witch casts an spell upon Robin Jason and he is briefly transported to the future where he meets himself as the Red Hood. He gets shocked by what he sees, but before he gets back to his time, future Jason gives him a piece of advise. And then, things start to happen. It says Mature target, but I think it's pretty safe for teen readers. No ship, just drama and comfort and feels. This fic was very sweet, I liked it.

Nature and Nurture, by *@lurkinglurkerwholurks*. A spell hits Bruce, who gets de-aged to be a six years older again. His family then has to take care of him in different ages of his life with him not remembering anything from that given age forward, or even the previous age he had just pass. The narrative is sort of divided in arcs that deal with Bruce at different ages, each arc centered and written around a different character. It's not Jason-centric, but he's the first one who deals with Bruce and, iirc, the writer said that he will do so again in upcoming arcs. It's not finished, but there are lots and lots of words to read already. Teen rated, no ships, and a ton of drama.

Two Dead Birds, by *@InsaneTrollLogic*. As I already said, this is one of the best written works I've seen in AO3. I don't want to spoil much, because I want you all to read it with a fresh and unspoiled mind, but a base summary doesn't harm, right? Jason gets transported to the past and, well, he has a plan. I would say, for the nature of the narration alone, and because the violence and emotional pain (it's not angsty, but it has mature emotional struggling), this work is really aimed to mature readers. But I guess teens could enjoy it too. No ships at all.

Retrograde Motion, by *@Lysical*. Jason gets de-aged and doesn't remember most of his past. A lot of drama and a lot of warm. The family dealing with what's basically a tootler Jason. It says Teen targeted, but I would say it's mostly Gen but for a few of scenes with reference to murderings. Artemis and Bizarro are part of the cast. There are no ships, but you will read close familial relationships between a lot of characters.

Life, if Well Lived, by @CaptainOzone. This one-shot tells the story of Jason time-travelling back to the time in which Bruce's parents were still alive, and meeting them in a certain, sensible date. It's a nice read. Teen readers, gen ships.

A Hundred Miles through the Desert, by *@acrobats*. This is still ongoing, only 5 chapters long at the time I write these words; but I liked it enough to comment on it. It's a time-travelling story in which Jason gets transported 28 years into the past. And he cannot remember why or how. There, he mets Bruce after his parents death: a very stubborn 8 yo kid who is determined to make Jason helping him investigate their manslaughtering. It's heart-warming and even has a bit of mystery. Teen readers, gen ships.

And that's all for now. There are dozens of works with these two tropes out there, but these are the ones I know (I think two of them were recommended by other users as well). If you want to add any other recommended work, you're welcome.

----------


## Jackalope89

Thanks for the recommendations. Hard to find many Outlaws fanfics with the Rebirth crew in them (Hopes for a Bastard's last few chapters only just brought in Artemis and Biz).

----------


## Sergard

> Maybe a little slash-y but still a beautiful fanart. (And I love how fast some artists react to new information/appearances)
> 
> 
> 
> (source)


Here is the colored version.

----------


## Arsenal

https://archiveofourown.org/works/11...pters/25096089

Father’s Day - It’s short, sweet and a nice read. 


We need more Babs & Jason post new52 interactions.

----------


## Jackalope89

> https://archiveofourown.org/works/11...pters/25096089
> 
> Father’s Day - It’s short, sweet and a nice read. 
> 
> 
> We need more Babs & Jason post new52 interactions.


It is surprisingly rare to find the two in a fanfic together, especially without the rest of the Bat Family.

----------


## Zaresh

Oh, I just remembered. In the "aĺlies - lost in translation" section, we forgot to mention Scarlet. I know we don't tend to talk about Redhead Morrison Jason, but I wouldn't drop her out of the grid forever. I wouldn't even dismiss the chance that someone could try and bring her back into continuity at some point.

----------


## Sergard

> Oh, I just remembered. In the "aĺlies - lost in translation" section, we forgot to mention Scarlet. I know we don't tend to talk about Redhead Morrison Jason, but I wouldn't drop her out of the grid forever. I wouldn't even dismiss the chance that someone could try and bring her back into continuity at some point.


I added her to the list. But somehow I was under the impression that Scarlet was the woman/girl in RHatO #14 who talks to Jason after the Outlaws have defeated Pyg and healed the Dollotrons.

----------


## AJpyro

> I added her to the list. But somehow I was under the impression that Scarlet was the woman/girl in RHatO #14 who talks to Jason after the Outlaws have defeated Pyg and healed the Dollotrons.


Huh. Reread that issue and no indication that its Scarlet. None their masks came off.

----------


## Sergard

> Huh. Reread that issue and no indication that its Scarlet. None their masks came off.


It's more of a gut feeling because Pyg states that he meets Red Hood for the first time - and then there is that healed Dollotron woman, Jason reaches out his hands and promises her she will be fine. And pre-New52, when Jason and Sasha/Scarlet met for the first time, Jason did something similar. He reached out his hand and said to her that she could trust him.

But no, there are no real indications that this was Scarlet in RHatO #14. But I like to believe it's her - and that she has more luck in this continuity than in the old one.

----------


## Sergard

As a side note: The OP nearly reached the limit of 10000 characters. I still can delete some quotes or outsource information in extra posts if necessary, so everything is fine. But somehow I'm surprised that 10000 characters aren't enough to stuff everything in one post. (Although I probably overdid it a little bit with the quotes.)

As a second side note: I saw in the Wonder Woman subforum that WW fans are going to start a WW Golden Age reread.

Maybe we could do the same for Jason, starting with his pre-crisis first appearance in Batman #357? (And then switch between Batman and Detective Comics so that we follow the right chronology)
I haven't checked it yet, but at least #357 can be bought digitally on ReadDC and Comixology for 1,99$. Does anybody know if there have been sales for old Batman or Detective Comics issues in the past?

----------


## Zaresh

> As a side note: The OP nearly reached the limit of 10000 characters. I still can delete some quotes or outsource information in extra posts if necessary, so everything is fine. But somehow I'm surprised that 10000 characters aren't enough to stuff everything in one post. (Although I probably overdid it a little bit with the quotes.)
> 
> As a second side note: I saw in the Wonder Woman subforum that WW fans are going to start a WW Golden Age reread.
> 
> Maybe we could do the same for Jason, starting with his pre-crisis first appearance in Batman #357? (And then switch between Batman and Detective Comics so that we follow the right chronology)
> I haven't checked it yet, but at least #357 can be bought digitally on ReadDC and Comixology for 1,99$. Does anybody know if there have been sales for old Batman or Detective Comics issues in the past?


I guess we could. I'm probably going to have to wait for post-Crisis, but I'm all in for a reading club.

----------


## G-Potion

I've been meaning to reread his Robin stuff but couldn't find the time to do in one sitting. A reading club sounds like a good idea.

----------


## RedBird

More YJJAY

battysketches



britaisy



CenmoBatson

----------


## Restingvoice

> As a side note: The OP nearly reached the limit of 10000 characters. I still can delete some quotes or outsource information in extra posts if necessary, so everything is fine. But somehow I'm surprised that 10000 characters aren't enough to stuff everything in one post. (Although I probably overdid it a little bit with the quotes.)
> 
> As a second side note: I saw in the Wonder Woman subforum that WW fans are going to start a WW Golden Age reread.
> 
> Maybe we could do the same for Jason, starting with his pre-crisis first appearance in Batman #357? (And then switch between Batman and Detective Comics so that we follow the right chronology)
> I haven't checked it yet, but at least #357 can be bought digitally on ReadDC and Comixology for 1,99$. Does anybody know if there have been sales for old Batman or Detective Comics issues in the past?


Most if not all of them are in Comixology. First appearance, dead parents, returning to the circus to solve a mystery, moving in to the manor, first time donning the costume, dying his hair, adoption, Dick giving his blessing, Man-Bat kidnapping, the whole Nocturna arc, Crisis, the whole Catwoman and Harvey Bullock arc... those are the ones I've seen. The only one I haven't checked is the Teen Titans issues...
Oh and of course For The Man Who Has Everything is there too.

----------


## Lirica

> There is already a short fanfic using the reveal in Young Justice:
> 
> Gray...son? by Qais


That's a nice little story. Great find!




> Maybe we could do the same for Jason, starting with his pre-crisis first appearance in Batman #357? (And then switch between Batman and Detective Comics so that we follow the right chronology)


That sounds like a great idea!
Since I'll be starting with Jason's post-crisis stuff, I'll only be able to participate then, but  it'll be worth the wait.
---
Wow, writers and artists jumped on the YJ stuff incredibly fast! So much has appeared in less than a week!

----------


## Zaresh

Are the ones with Nocturna pre or post Crisis? Because I was thinking about reading them, because the sumary looks interesting, but I don't know what issues or TP I should look for.

----------


## Sergard

> Are the ones with Nocturna pre or post Crisis? Because I was thinking about reading them, because the sumary looks interesting, but I don't know what issues or TP I should look for.


Nocturna is pre-crisis. Her first appearance is in Detective Comics #529. And for comparison: pre-crisis Jason appears in Detective Comics the first time in #524.

----------


## Zaresh

> Nocturna is pre-crisis. Her first appearance is in Detective Comics #529. And for comparison: pre-crisis Jason appears in Detective Comics the first time in #524.


Oh, Ok. I guess I'll be here for some of the pre-Crisis too.

----------


## JasonTodd428

> As a second side note: I saw in the Wonder Woman subforum that WW fans are going to start a WW Golden Age reread.
> 
> Maybe we could do the same for Jason, starting with his pre-crisis first appearance in Batman #357? (And then switch between Batman and Detective Comics so that we follow the right chronology)
> I haven't checked it yet, but at least #357 can be bought digitally on ReadDC and Comixology for 1,99$. Does anybody know if there have been sales for old Batman or Detective Comics issues in the past?


That sound like a great idea. I'm all for it.

----------


## Sergard

The final cover of Teen Titans Annual #1. I still have no idea what's going on. And judging by Jason's body language on the cover, he hasn't either.

----------


## Arsenal

Thats more or less what I imagine the aftermath of the TTs drinking to much looks like

----------


## Jackalope89

Come to think of it, Jason is one of the few people that can actually take on the likes of Djinn and come out on top, thanks to his All Blades. Crush though, not sure how he would counter a Czarnian (even if she is only half). Wallace is still a rookie speedster, and I'd be surprised if Jason didn't have some sort of counter for one.

But I do have to wonder; was it Jason that was working with Damian? Or was it this Wingman person that's running around?

----------


## Arctic Cyclist

> Thats more or less what I imagine the aftermath of the TTs drinking to much looks like


Afterwards, young Jason Todd vowed to never condone or encourage underage drinking again, particularly Damian's. Having never seen Bruce drunk and having fond memories of drinking with Talia, he didn't anticipate that the Waynes all become teetotalers for a reason. He does now. 

He does now.

Still, traumatic as it was, he filed the memory of the experience away. Life has taught him that having a berserker drunk in his back pocket is a great way to take down unsuspecting enemies.

(The story we aren't getting, but the one Jason deserves.)

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

tumblr_plaij24g7z1syvn07_1280.jpg

Scalera's variant for 31

----------


## Arsenal

> tumblr_plaij24g7z1syvn07_1280.jpg
> 
> Scalera's variant for 31


That’s nice.

----------


## Zaresh

> tumblr_plaij24g7z1syvn07_1280.jpg
> 
> Scalera's variant for 31


Beautiful. I wish there were a better pic for coloring it. But I guess I just have to wait for the cover.

Oh, but now that I think about it, this is just perfect in just B&W.

Really a beautiful illustration.

----------


## RedBird

> tumblr_plaij24g7z1syvn07_1280.jpg
> 
> Scalera's variant for 31


Ooooh I saw that before but I didnt know it was a cover, its beautiful! I wonder if Scalera will be doing any more covers  :Smile:

----------


## G-Potion

Beautiful!! Really wish Scalera would stay for some 6 issues like he did before.

----------


## Aahz

https://gamerwithamonocle.tumblr.com/image/181972658990

----------


## JasonTodd428

> tumblr_plaij24g7z1syvn07_1280.jpg
> 
> Scalera's variant for 31


Very nice. Love the sepia tone this has.

----------


## oasis1313

> Ooooh I saw that before but I didnt know it was a cover, its beautiful! I wonder if Scalera will be doing any more covers


I think this color would look great issued in this sepia tone, without color.

----------


## G-Potion

> https://gamerwithamonocle.tumblr.com/image/181972658990


Haha the tiny eyes on the visor emoting! Jason looks so done. S is for sword. What they teach at League school.  :Big Grin:

----------


## G-Potion

> Attachment 76953
> 
> Scalera's variant for 31


Has the colored version been posted yet?

----------


## Jackalope89

I feel this is appropriate.

----------


## RedBird

> Has the colored version been posted yet?


Honestly I love both, I want both copies, sepia and coloured.  :Smile:

----------


## G-Potion

https://jjmk-jjmk.tumblr.com/post/18...n-todd-fan-art

----------


## G-Potion

Of course the dog would get fanart too.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ultron6159

----------


## Sergard

The dog is great and in my eyes already a nonofficial member of the outlaws. I'll be so mad if anything happens to her. And Jason probably too.
Here's a quote from last year's appreciation thread. It's kinda fitting.




> Mama Bear Red Him.

----------


## Zaresh

> Honestly I love both, I want both copies, sepia and coloured.


I think I like the cover in sepia more, but honestly, the coloured version is beautiful too. Damn good variant.




> https://jjmk-jjmk.tumblr.com/post/18...n-todd-fan-art


As expected, jjmk delivers. That's a really good looking Nightwing, btw.

----------


## dietrich

> The final cover of Teen Titans Annual #1. I still have no idea what's going on. And judging by Jason's body language on the cover, he hasn't either.


While I'm looking forward to this it would be great if writers gave us more arcs where the family aren't fighting. Successful team ups, explore relationships, develop relationships. More looking out for each other than fighting.

----------


## okiedokiewo

> While I'm looking forward to this it would be great if writers gave us more arcs where the family aren't fighting. Successful team ups, explore relationships, develop relationships. More looking out for each other than fighting.


Yeah, we should have at least seen them working together first. What was it, a single panel of them together?

----------


## oasis1313

> While I'm looking forward to this it would be great if writers gave us more arcs where the family aren't fighting. Successful team ups, explore relationships, develop relationships. More looking out for each other than fighting.


I think a few moments of the family not fighting is only the stuff of dreams.  Although I hope this cover is misleading.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

And we're up again

83. RED HOOD OUTLAW #29 (DC COMICS) [86]

https://www.diamondcomics.com/Home/1...ticleID=225295

----------


## Jackalope89

> I think a few moments of the family not fighting is only the stuff of dreams.  Although I hope this cover is misleading.


Well, RHatO Rebirth Annual did have a good team up of Jason, Dick, Artemis, and Biz. After they got Dick to dress up as a clown. lol

----------


## Zaresh

> And we're up again
> 
> 83. RED HOOD OUTLAW #29 (DC COMICS) [86]
> 
> https://www.diamondcomics.com/Home/1...ticleID=225295


Yaaaay! Wondering how much it did last month.

----------


## Jackalope89

I imagine with Jason popping up in Young Justice (one of the most anticipated series for 2019), along with a good showing in Batman Ninja, and of course the ever spreading popularity of Under the Red Hood, I imagine Jason's fandom will continue to grow.

----------


## dietrich

> Yeah, we should have at least seen them working together first. What was it, a single panel of them together?


It's pathetic. You would think that after seeing fan reaction to stuff like the Bat Burger scene or Nightwing must die or The Red Hood Annual  editorial would get a clue and give us a little more positive contact.

DC always leaving money on the table. They could do much with these characters.

----------


## G-Potion

> And we're up again
> 
> 83. RED HOOD OUTLAW #29 (DC COMICS) [86]
> 
> https://www.diamondcomics.com/Home/1...ticleID=225295


Awesome!!  :Big Grin:

----------


## Sergard

> And we're up again
> 
> 83. RED HOOD OUTLAW #29 (DC COMICS) [86]
> 
> https://www.diamondcomics.com/Home/1...ticleID=225295


What do you mean by "up"?

Red Hood: Outlaw #28 had the quantity rank 83 in November too.
https://www.diamondcomics.com/Home/1...ticleID=221911

Although the dollar rank went down from 85 to 86 but that's not really important.
And I don't think we can say anything about the index changing from 25.79 to 26.32 since it's only the relation of sold copies compared to the sold copies of a control title (in November: Batman #58, in December: Batman #60). But the index doesn't tell us anything about the absolute number of sold RH:O #29 copies.

I think we'll have to wait for an update on comichron.

And Diamond should really change the "About the Diamond Sales Index" section at the end of the webpage because "Convergence #8" was published in 2015 and I'm pretty sure that using that title as control title was only a one-time thing.

----------


## Aahz

> What do you mean by "up"?


It is at least relativity stable on a much higher spot then before the new direction.

Also intersting that it is now above ADVENTURES OF THE SUPER SONS, since the last Super Sons Series sold usually better than RHatO.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I’m working on Red Hood issue 33 right now and I think longtime readers are going to love the direction the story is going. I know I’m having a ton of fun drawing it!


https://twitter.com/thatpetewoods/st...77042910732288

So much for my hopes Woods had left the book.

----------


## Sergard

> It is at least relativity stable on a much higher spot then before the new direction.
> 
> Also intersting that it is now above ADVENTURES OF THE SUPER SONS, since the last Super Sons Series sold usually better than RHatO.


If I had to make a guess I'd say that the number of sold copies is more important than the spot in the ranking - although, of course, there is a correlation.
I clicked through different months on comichron. For comparison:
November 2018: 24,485 copies sold, rank 83
September 2017: 24,376 copies sold, rank 102

These rankings are interesting but I'm still not sure how to "evaluate" the information since there is a lot going on on the comic market.

Although I have to admit, that I had forgotten how low RHatO numbers had been in the past.

----------


## Sergard

> https://twitter.com/thatpetewoods/st...77042910732288


Oh nice, back to the All-Caste. I hope the red censoring is hiding Essence.
Although I'm surprised that Jason is visiting the All-Caste in #33 shortly after returning to Gotham in #32.

----------


## Zaresh

> https://twitter.com/thatpetewoods/st...77042910732288
> 
> So much for my hopes Woods had left the book.


I don't know what I'm looking at, besides this being some kind of jungle-swamp settling with what looks like a classical or neoclassical style building at the lower right.

I guess this is either something related to the place Biz and Art are, or something related to Swamp Thing or the lot who are like him, which definitely would excite Woods, because he seems like a pulp lover like myself. But it probably is the former: it's something from that other universe.

Edit: right, of course, it's the place where the all-caste are. Geez, I feel a little dumb now.

----------


## Sergard

@Zaresh: Does this help? From "Red Hood and the Outlaws #2" (2011-2015)
Look at the stone head.

----------


## Zaresh

> @Zaresh: Does this help? From "Red Hood and the Outlaws #2" (2011-2015)
> Look at the stone head.


Yeah, it helps. I realized it was that place when I sent the message and saw you reply. I totally forgot about how the Acres of All looked.

----------


## Sergard

> Yeah, it helps. I realized it was that place when I sent the message and saw you reply. I totally forgot about how the Acres of All looked.


I didn't remember it either. My clue was Woods comment "I think longtime readers are going to love the direction the story is going." and that the place looks ancient and destroyed. So the All-Caste came to mind.
Although I'm a little surprised that the place still lies in ruins. I thought Essence wants to rebuild the All-Caste - and that this also includes tidying up the place.

I'm a little worried about Dog. I can't imagine that Jason will take her along on his journey from Mexico to Gotham and then to the All-Caste (in China?).

----------


## Zaresh

> I didn't remember it either. My clue was Woods comment "I think longtime readers are going to love the direction the story is going." and that the place looks ancient and destroyed. So the All-Caste came to mind.
> Although I'm a little surprised that the place still lies in ruins. I thought Essence wants to rebuild the All-Caste - and that this also includes tidying up the place.
> 
> I'm a little worried about Dog. I can't imagine that Jason will take her along on his journey from Mexico to Gotham and then to the All-Caste (in China?).


Unless there is a magic pathway from Gotham (that, to be honest, these Shangri-La knock-offs tend to have sooner or later), I don't see Jason dragging Dog with him to that place. But if he's in Gotham in issue #32, and that issue seems to be the first of a new arc settled mostly in Gotham, this picture may belong to some flashback from the old run.

----------


## Arsenal

Could be another flashback

----------


## G-Potion

> 


Sweet. I hope this will be more than just a one-panel flashback. Since Jason's solo right now it's a good time to bring back his past storylines and associates.

----------


## G-Potion

Who do you think?

----------


## Zaresh

> Who do you think?


With how lucky we tend to be, Bizarro is losing his awesome beard. I hope I'm wrong, I love bearded supes.

----------


## Arsenal

> With how lucky we tend to be, Bizarro is losing his awesome beard. I hope I'm wrong, I love bearded supes.


#ProtectBeardedBiz

----------


## Aahz

> If I had to make a guess I'd say that the number of sold copies is more important than the spot in the ranking - although, of course, there is a correlation.
> I clicked through different months on comichron. For comparison:
> November 2018: 24,485 copies sold, rank 83
> September 2017: 24,376 copies sold, rank 102
> 
> These rankings are interesting but I'm still not sure how to "evaluate" the information since there is a lot going on on the comic market.
> 
> Although I have to admit, that I had forgotten how low RHatO numbers had been in the past.


But in July 2018 it was down to 18,829 copies sold, rank 109.

----------


## Sergard

> But in July 2018 it was down to 18,829 copies sold, rank 109.


I hope we don't talk past each other.
I only wanted to say that in my opinion, these numbers (sold copies): for example

September 2017: 24,376 copies 
July 2018: 18,829 copies
November 2018: 24,485 copies

are more important than these numbers (ranking):

September 2017: rank 102
July 2018: rank 109
November 2018: rank 83

because the number of sold copies is basically only dependent on the popularity of a series and often indicates if a fanbase is growing or shrinking.
The ranking, on the other hand, has more complex parameters and can be very volatile because, for example, of other titles ending/starting, annuals, mini-series', crossover-events, etc.
The ranking doesn't necessarily reflect if a series is doing good or bad.

----------


## Aahz

@Sergard
I totally agree the totals sales are a far better indicator than the rankings.
Ranking works imo only if you really look which titles are lower and which are higher ranked.

----------


## Sergard

I haven't forgotten my suggestion to do a Jason Todd re-read, starting with the pre-crisis stuff.

Some points to discuss beforehand:
I could create a separate thread for the re-read stuff. The other thread would still be considered part of this thread. So the appreciation thread rules apply.I'd suggest that we read issues of "Batman" and "Detective Comics" chronologically and alternating, i.e. we start with Batman #357, then 'Tec #524, Batman #358, 'Tec #525, etc.
(see list below, I hope everything is correct, 'Tec is a little shorter at the end)There are also guest appearances of Jason in Blue Devil, New Teen Titans and Superman Annual. We can skip or read them.How often do you want to read an issue? We could read an issue every week or every two weeks, etc.I haven't checked yet if Jason has an appearance in all Batman, 'Tec issues listed below but I can check later - and we'll probably notice soon enough beforehand if it's the case or not.
Do you guys prefer to skip issues without Jason or to read and discuss them nevertheless?

 *release* 
 *Batman* 
 *Detective Comics*
 *Guest Appearance*

	March-83
	Batman #357
	Detective Comics #524


	April-83
	Batman #358
	Detective Comics #525


	May-83
	Batman #359
	Detective Comics #526


	June-83
	Batman #360
	Detective Comics #527


	July-83
	Batman #361
	Detective Comics #528


	August-83
	Batman #362
	Detective Comics #529


	September-83
	Batman #363
	Detective Comics #530


	October-83
	Batman #364
	Detective Comics #531


	November-83
	Batman #365
	Detective Comics #532


	December-83
	Batman #366
	Detective Comics #533


	January-84
	Batman #367
	Detective Comics #534


	February-84
	Batman #368
	Detective Comics #535


	March-84
	Batman #369
	Detective Comics #536


	April-84
	Batman #370
	Detective Comics #537


	May-84
	Batman #371
	Detective Comics #538


	June-84
	Batman #372
	Detective Comics #539


	July-84
	Batman #373
	Detective Comics #540


	August-84
	Batman #374
	Detective Comics #541


	September-84
	Batman #375
	Detective Comics #542


	October-84
	Batman #376
	Detective Comics #543


	November-84
	Batman #377
	Detective Comics #544


	December-84
	Batman #378
	Detective Comics #545


	January-85
	Batman #379
	Detective Comics #546


	February-85
	Batman #380
	Detective Comics #547


	March-85
	Batman #381
	Detective Comics #548


	April-85
	Batman #382
	Detective Comics #549


	May-85
	Batman #383
	Detective Comics #550


	June-85
	Batman #384
	Detective Comics #551


	July-85
	Batman #385
	Detective Comics #552


	August-85
	Batman #386
	Detective Comics #553
	Superman Annual #11

	September-85
	Batman #387
	Detective Comics #554


	October-85
	Batman #388
	Detective Comics #555


	November-85
	Batman #389
	Detective Comics #556


	December-85
	Batman #390
	Detective Comics #557
	Blue Devil #19

	January-86
	Batman #391
	Detective Comics #558


	February-86
	Batman #392
	Detective Comics #559


	March-86
	Batman #393
	Detective Comics #560
	New Teen Titans #18

	April-86
	Batman #394
	Detective Comics #561
	New Teen Titans #19

	May-86
	Batman #395
	Detective Comics #562
	New Teen Titans #20

	June-86
	Batman #396
	Detective Comics #563
	New Teen Titans #21

	July-86
	Batman #397
	Detective Comics #564
 New Teen Titans #22: no Jason	

	August-86
	Batman #398
	Detective Comics #565
	Batman Annual #10




New Teen Titans #23: no Jason

	September-86
	Batman #399
	Detective Comics #566


	October-86
	Batman #400
	Detective Comics #567*
	New Teen Titans #24

	November-86
	Batman #401*
	Detective Comics #568*
 New Teen Titans #25: no Jason

	December-86
	Batman #402*
	Detective Comics #569*
	New Teen titans #26

	January-87
	Batman #403*
	Detective Comics #570*
	New Teen titans #27

	February-87

	Detective Comics #571*
	New Teen titans #28

	March-87

	Detective Comics #572*
	New Teen titans #29

	April-87

	Detective Comics #573*
	New Teen titans #30

	May-87

	Detective Comics #574*
	New Teen titans #31



* Officially post-crisis, but story-wise in a grey zone

----------


## Aahz

Technically Batman #401, is already Post crisis, and #402 and #403 are written by Max Allan Collins and should therefore definitely included in a the post crisis read.

----------


## Sergard

> Technically Batman #401, is already Post crisis, and #402 and #403 are written by Max Allan Collins and should therefore definitely included in a the post crisis read.


Are you sure? I read #402 and #403 in "Batman: Second Chances" and I remember that Batman stated that he has killed in the past (in self-defense). And post-crisis Batman has never killed, or?

----------


## Moandinga

> https://twitter.com/thatpetewoods/st...77042910732288
> 
> So much for my hopes Woods had left the book.


Hello! new user of this forum!
I'm kind of disappointed we are going back with the All-Caste. It's one of my least favorite addition to Jason's story.

----------


## Aahz

> Are you sure? I read #402 and #403 in "Batman: Second Chances" and I remember that Batman stated that he has killed in the past (in self-defense). And post-crisis Batman has never killed, or?


Officially Batman #400 is the last pre crisis Batman story, and Detective Comics #567 is the first post crisis story.

But a lot of the early post crisis stories (imo all Batman issues before Year one and all the TEC issues before Year Two) are continuities wise in a wired spot, they neither really fit into the pre crisis or the post  crisis continuity. They are imo kind of filler issues, they published untill they had figured out where they wanted to go with Batman post crisis. And while they have still some pre crisis Elements (like for example they used still pre crisis Catwoman in some early issues of TEC) these comics didn't continue the plot of the pre crisis issues (which tell basically an ongoing story).

----------


## Zaresh

> I could create a separate thread for the re-read stuff. The other thread would still be considered part of this thread. So the appreciation thread rules apply.
> I'd suggest that we read issues of "Batman" and "Detective Comics" chronologically and alternating, i.e. we start with Batman #357, then 'Tec #524, Batman #358, 'Tec #525, etc.
> (see list below, I hope everything is correct, 'Tec is a little shorter at the end)


I'm ok with these two points.




> There are also guest appearances of Jason in Blue Devil, New Teen Titans and Superman Annual. We can skip or read them.


I would love to read them, but some issues can be hard to find. The annual is easy to find in paper, and the NTT has a digital copy as well. But I don't know about the Blue Devil issue: I know that here where I live that's material that hasn't been even published in a hardcover.

Also, The Cult was a mini, so I guess we have the same problem with that one. But that would be very late in the post-Crisis run, so I guess we could figure it out when we reach that point.




> How often do you want to read an issue? We could read an issue every week or every two weeks, etc.
> I haven't checked yet if Jason has an appearance in all Batman, 'Tec issues listed below but I can check later - and we'll probably notice soon enough beforehand if it's the case or not.
> Do you guys prefer to skip issues without Jason or to read and discuss them nevertheless?


One issue every week sounds cool. We can skip the reading when we have a RHATO week, so that the club lasts long and we always have something to discuss. I don't know about skipping issues. Maybe the ones that are flashback arcs, which I think we would have towards the end of Tec.?

----------


## Aahz

> I'd suggest that we read issues of "Batman" and "Detective Comics" chronologically and alternating, i.e. we start with Batman #357, then 'Tec #524, Batman #358, 'Tec #525, etc.


There is not really much of a point doing it differently, since pre crisis a story that started in an issue of batman usually continued in the next issue of TEC, and the other way around (that changed post crisis).




> How often do you want to read an issue? We could read an issue every week or every two weeks, etc.


Wouldn't it make more sense to read complete story arc (usually 2 to 4 issues) opposed to singe issues?

----------


## Sergard

> Wouldn't it make more sense to read complete story arc (usually 2 to 4 issues) opposed to singe issues?


Maybe. I don't know. I call it "re-read" but in my case it's a "first read" for many issues. I personally like to discuss one issue at a time and theorize what could happen, could have been, could have been done differently, compare pre-crisis Jason with post-crisis Jason etc.
And I still have to buy the issues digitally on readDC - 2 bucks an issue doesn't sound much a week, but paying for a whole story arc at once could maybe add up to a sum per month I don't feel comfortable with. I'm not sure about that.

At this point I just want to hear some opinions from other users so that we have a reading schedule for the start. If the majority decides later on that they want to read faster/slower/an arc at once, etc. we can easily change the schedule. That's no problem.


And thanks for all the info about pre-crisis/post-crisis and that Batman and Detective Comics were intertwined pre-crisis. I didn't know that.

----------


## Sergard

> Hello! new user of this forum!


Welcome to the forum. I hope you have fun here.  :Smile:

----------


## Jackalope89

Uncle Red X Jason. Better watch what he teaches young Mar'i, Dick.

----------


## Sergard

Fleet of Red: _Babysitting Duty in #YoungJusticeOutsiders with #JasonTodd and baby #DamienWayne. Can't wait for the family reunion!!!_





soosdraws: _jason and different hairstyles !!_

----------


## Kratos767

Best girl and best boy coming through
Dv8vJFMUUAAqAtH.jpg
https://mobile.twitter.com/r73srtsrs...34281817325568 Twitter of artist

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Solicits were leaked

----------


## K7P5V

Don't know where this is from, but I thought this image looked cool.

----------


## Arsenal

So Jason has a gang now. Guess Jason taking Wingman up on his offer is all but confirmed.

----------


## Zaresh

> Solicits were leaked


Liking the regular cover way, way better than the varian this time. Also, not colorist listed, so I'm guessing Woods is again in the colours 8but not the cover, huh).

Sounds fun, but I suspect there is probably more in the story that just that plot with Penguin's former enemies in the business.

----------


## Zaresh

BTW, numbers are out in Comichrom already. RHATO #29 did 24,026, so even if we went up in the list, there was a loss of about 400 sold issues.

----------


## Lirica

> Solicits were leaked


Gotta say I do like Jason's look on that cover.

Speaking of art, I have seen some of the current interior art and I'm not really much of a fan.

----------


## RedBird

> Solicits were leaked


Yooooo!

I swear I have had this idea for stories before, of Jason playing the double role of being a crime boss and his own enforcer (Red Hood). That's awesome  :Big Grin: 

That being said, I don't wanna take a dig at Woods, his art for Jason is nice enough when he is drawing the new gruff costume, but damn, Soy would have been perfect to bring this 'sleek Mob Boss' Jason to life.

----------


## G-Potion

> I haven't forgotten my suggestion to do a Jason Todd re-read, starting with the pre-crisis stuff.
> 
> Some points to discuss beforehand:
> I could create a separate thread for the re-read stuff. The other thread would still be considered part of this thread. So the appreciation thread rules apply.I'd suggest that we read issues of "Batman" and "Detective Comics" chronologically and alternating, i.e. we start with Batman #357, then 'Tec #524, Batman #358, 'Tec #525, etc.
> (see list below, I hope everything is correct, 'Tec is a little shorter at the end)There are also guest appearances of Jason in Blue Devil, New Teen Titans and Superman Annual. We can skip or read them.How often do you want to read an issue? We could read an issue every week or every two weeks, etc.I haven't checked yet if Jason has an appearance in all Batman, 'Tec issues listed below but I can check later - and we'll probably notice soon enough beforehand if it's the case or not.
> Do you guys prefer to skip issues without Jason or to read and discuss them nevertheless?


I personally prefer to keep it contained in this thread as I check in more often. Ok with alternating between Batman and Tec'. Scheduling wise I'm easy, weekly or bi-weekly is fine.

----------


## G-Potion

> Solicits were leaked


So he gets his hair back. And this double life thing is gonna be fun.  :Big Grin:

----------


## G-Potion

> Hello! new user of this forum!


Hey, welcome!  :Big Grin:

----------


## Zaresh

Where is the new user? I cannot find their post O.o

You know, if Wingman is indeed an alternate Jason, and he starts to work with him as Red Hood for hiding Jason's vigilante persona out from the public eye, I'm probably going to start laughing and not stopping until the next century.

----------


## G-Potion

> You know, if Wingman is indeed an alternate Jason, and he starts to work with him as Red Hood for hiding Jason's vigilante persona out from the public eye, I'm probably going to start laughing and not stopping until the next century.


If you're gonna steal my identity, at least pick a useful one.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## G-Potion

> Where is the new user? I cannot find their post O.o


You see the little blue arrow button next to their username in the quote above? Click on it and you'll be directed to their post.

----------


## G-Potion

> Best girl and best boy coming through
> Attachment 77175
> https://mobile.twitter.com/r73srtsrs...34281817325568 Twitter of artist


Hello and warm welcome to you too!  :Big Grin:

----------


## Zaresh

> You see the little blue arrow button next to their username in the quote above? Click on it and you'll be directed to their post.


Oh, thanks a lot!!




> Hello! new user of this forum!
> I'm kind of disappointed we are going back with the All-Caste. It's one of my least favorite addition to Jason's story.





> Best girl and best boy coming through
> Attachment 77175
> https://mobile.twitter.com/r73srtsrs...34281817325568 Twitter of artist


Welcome! Hope you enjoy your stay here  :Big Grin:

----------


## G-Potion

> Yooooo!
> 
> I swear I have had this idea for stories before, of Jason playing the double role of being a crime boss and his own enforcer (Red Hood). That's awesome 
> 
> That being said, I don't wanna take a dig at Woods, his art for Jason is nice enough when he is drawing the new gruff costume, but damn, Soy would have been perfect to bring this 'sleek Mob Boss' Jason to life.


I think there's also a fic with similar idea. Rise of the Red Hood or something. Jason owns a construction business in that one.

----------


## Raijin

edit: never mind, the solicitation was posted already.

----------


## Sergard

> Solicits were leaked


Jason with hair, yes. I hope it's not only on the cover but also in the interior.
And it seems that the All-caste scene from Woods' twitter is just a flashback or something similar.
Nothing about Dog - I'm a little worried that Jason leaves her behind in Mexico.
I wonder if we'll see Emory again - the lady in Red we saw in RHatO #21 that led Jason to Penguin's room and who has to work for the Penguin because her father owes him money.

----------


## RedBird

Jason (new costume) + Tim

maple_DC



It's so dapper and sleek, I love it

----------


## Sergard

> Jason (new costume) + Tim
> 
> maple_DC
> 
> It's so dapper and sleek, I love it


That was fast. And it looks soooo good.
I really dig the combination of the suit, Jason's mask and Penguin's umbrella.

----------


## kaimaciel

> Solicits were leaked


Mr. Todd will see you now. 

 :Wink:

----------


## G-Potion

> Jason with hair, yes. I hope it's not only on the cover but also in the interior.
> And it seems that the All-caste scene from Woods' twitter is just a flashback or something similar.
> Nothing about Dog - I'm a little worried that Jason leaves her behind in Mexico.
> I wonder if we'll see Emory again - the lady in Red we saw in RHatO #21 that led Jason to Penguin's room and who has to work for the Penguin because her father owes him money.


Woods said in a reply that one of them (between Artemis and Jason) is getting their hair back so, yeah. 

And Jason'd better not leave Dog behind.

----------


## G-Potion

> Mr. Todd will see you now.


One particular thing I like about this direction is Jason Todd's exposure to the public. Will he act like himself, Red Hood, or another persona?

----------


## Sergard

> I personally prefer to keep it contained in this thread as I check in more often. Ok with alternating between Batman and Tec'. Scheduling wise I'm easy, weekly or bi-weekly is fine.


Don't you think that keeping it contained in this thread will be a little chaotic, considering that there will be other discussions going on too?
I imagine that it will be inconvenient to follow the pre-crisis issues discussions or to find older posts (even with an linked overview of already discussed issues).

----------


## RedBird

I mean, assuming that he is wholly separating this identity from the Red Hood he probably won't be wearing the Red Hood (new) mask and mouthpiece combo, but damn if it doesn't look good with the suit  :Big Grin:

----------


## G-Potion

> Don't you think that keeping it contained in this thread will be a little chaotic, considering that there will be other discussions going on too?
> I imagine that it will be inconvenient to follow the pre-crisis issues discussions or to find older posts (even with an linked overview of already discussed issues).


I guess it depends on how robust the discussion will be. Going bi-weekly for example has a good chance that the thread will be buried a good while before the next issue reread. Tbh though, it's mostly just me being lazy and wanting to have everything in one place for easy checking. That said, it's not a big deal, so I'll go with whatever you decide.

----------


## Sergard

> One particular thing I like about this direction is Jason Todd's exposure to the public. Will he act like himself, Red Hood, or another persona?


Some part of me hopes that Bruce will be sneaky, masquerading as Matches Malone to meet crime boss Jason - and while being watched by Jason's crew both have to put on an act but also have to secretly exchange information.

Jason meeting Flashpoint Batman during this arc could also be interesting since Thomas Wayne has something similar going on in his own universe with the Wayne Casinos.

----------


## kaimaciel

> One particular thing I like about this direction is Jason Todd's exposure to the public. Will he act like himself, Red Hood, or another persona?


I think he'll play another version of himself: the businessman persona, similar to Bruce. 

Do you guys think the whole "legally dead" stuff will be addressed? That could be cool. 

"Weren't you one of the Bruce Wayne's dead kids?"

----------


## Zaresh

> Some part of me hopes that Bruce will be sneaky, masquerading as Matches Malone to meet crime boss Jason - and while being watched by Jason's crew both have to put on an act but also have to secretly exchange information.
> 
> Jason meeting Flashpoint Batman during this arc could also be interesting since Thomas Wayne has something similar going on in his own universe with the Wayne Casinos.


I can see some meta joke about it, like the one with Pyg back a year or so ago. 

About Bruce, I wonder if he will show up at all. I get that the final point of this whole "isolating the batfam" plan is because how he is supposed to be in Doomsday Clock (which is a year in the future from when it started to be published, iirc). Now, between the timejump we had in the annual and all these other issues, and what Jason with hair again could imply, I guess he is just a few months before that point (halfway I guess) in Bruce's future. So maybe, by then Bruce is too busy doing whatever leads him to be in his bad place. We will probably have the 3 jokers just before the crap hits the fan, I guess, but... Mmmmm...

----------


## Sergard

For easier comparability I copied the sales statistics of _Red Hood and the Outlaws_ (source: Comichron) in one table. I'll update the table accordingly. A link to this post can be found in the OP.

 *rank (units)*
 *rank ($)	*
 *title	*
 *issue	*
 *price	*
 *release	*
 *units*
 *guest appearance*

	24
	28
	Red Hood and the Outlaws Rebirth
	R*
	$2.99
	07/27/16
	88,838
Bruce Wayne

	21
	28
	Red Hood and the Outlaws
	1*
	$2.99
	08/10/16
	83,849

	50
	60
	Red Hood and the Outlaws
	2*
	$2.99
	09/14/16
	49,943

	67
	93
	Red Hood and the Outlaws
	3
	$2.99
	10/12/16
	41,971

	79
	98
	Red Hood and the Outlaws
	4
	$2.99
	11/09/16
	36,740

	85
	98
	Red Hood and the Outlaws
	5
	$2.99
	12/14/16
	32,860

	86
	97
	Red Hood and the Outlaws
	6
	$2.99
	01/11/17
	31,321
Bruce Wayne

	82
	97
	Red Hood and the Outlaws
	7
	$2.99
	02/08/17
	28,753
Alfred Pennyworth

	87
	109
	Red Hood and the Outlaws
	8
	$2.99
	03/08/17
	27,894
Wonder Woman (flashback)

	89
	78
	Red Hood and the Outlaws
	9
	$3.99
	04/12/17
	26,410

	100
	93
	Red Hood and the Outlaws
	10
	$3.99
	05/10/17
	25,977

	101
	101
	Red Hood and the Outlaws
	11
	$3.99
	06/14/17
	25,185

	85
	81
	Red Hood and the Outlaws
	12
	$3.99
	07/12/17
	26,251
Solomon Grundy

	88
	82
	Red Hood and the Outlaws
	13
	$3.99
	08/09/17
	25,073
Lex Luthor

	111
	75
	Red Hood and the Outlaws Annual
	1
	$4.99
	08/30/17
	20,638
Dick Grayson, KG Beast

	102
	92
	Red Hood and the Outlaws
	14
	$3.99
	09/13/17
	24,376

	105
	98
	Red Hood and the Outlaws
	15
	$3.99
	10/11/17
	23,680
Batwoman & Gotham Knights

	94
	89
	Red Hood and the Outlaws
	16
	$3.99
	11/08/17
	23,610
Amanda Waller, Harley Quinn (SS)

	98
	93
	Red Hood and the Outlaws
	17
	$3.99
	12/13/17
	21,838
Harley Quinn, Killer Croc (SS)

	105
	97
	Red Hood and the Outlaws
	18
	$3.99
	01/10/18
	21,385
H.I.V.E. Queen, The Creeper

	108
	102
	Red Hood and the Outlaws
	19
	$3.99
	02/14/18
	20,744

	107
	98
	Red Hood and the Outlaws
	20
	$3.99
	03/14/18
	20,214

	118
	110
	Red Hood and the Outlaws
	21
	$3.99
	04/11/18
	19,590
Alfred Pennyworth

	123
	127
	Red Hood and the Outlaws
	22
	$3.99
	05/09/18
	18,989
Lex Luthor

	111
	111
	Red Hood and the Outlaws
	23
	$3.99
	06/13/18
	19,034

	109
	108
	Red Hood and the Outlaws
	24
	$3.99
	07/11/18
	18,829

	114
	95
	Red Hood and the Outlaws
	25
	$4.99
	08/08/18
	21,874
Bruce Wayne, Roy Harper

	136
	121
	Red Hood and the Outlaws Annual
	2
	$4.99
	08/29/18
	16,132
Roy Harper

	90
	91
	Red Hood and the Outlaws
	26
	$3.99
	09/12/18
	24,688

	83
	91
	Red Hood: Outlaw (foil cover)
	27
	$3.99
	10/10/18
	30,343
Bruce Wayne

	83
	85
	Red Hood: Outlaw
	28
	$3.99
	11/14/18
	24,485
Batwoman

	83
	86
	Red Hood: Outlaw
	29
	$3.99
	12/05/18
	24,026
Batwoman

	108
	109
	Red Hood: Outlaw
	30
	$3.99
	01/16/19
	20,247

	90
	92
	Red Hood: Outlaw
	31
	$3.99
	02/13/19
	19,546

	105
	105
	Red Hood: Outlaw
	32
	$3.99
	03/13/19
	18,389
Bruce Wayne

	80
	81
	Red Hood: Outlaw
	33
	$3.99
	04/10/19
	24,708

	117
	117
	Red Hood: Outlaw
	34
	$3.99
	05/08/19
	18,984

	113
	115
	Red Hood: Outlaw
	35
	$3.99
	06/12/19
	18,067

	114 (fused**)
	n.a.
	Red Hood: Outlaw
	36(All)
	$3.99/$4.99
	07/10/19
	21,308
 Lex Luthor

	180
	186
	Red Hood: Outlaw
	36
	$3.99
	07/10/19
 _12,120_

	224
	203
	Red Hood: Outlaw
	36 Card Stock
	$4.99
	07/10/19
 _9,188_

	161
	139
	Red Hood: Outlaw Annual
	3
	$4.99
	07/31/19
	14,144

	114
	119
	Red Hood: Outlaw
	37
	$3.99
	08/28/19
	18,585

	123
	124
	Red Hood: Outlaw
	38
	$3.99
	09/26/19
	18,425

	152
	147
	Red Hood: Outlaw
	39
	$3.99
	10/23/19
	17,614

	91
	95
	Red Hood: Outlaw
	40
	$3.99
	11/27/19
	21,864




_Items marked with asterisks[*] had their reported orders reduced by 10% due to returnability._

_[**]The sale numbers of the standard cover for $3.99 and the Card Stock variant for $4.99 are added together (fused)._

----------


## Sergard

The back-combed hair and the red dress shirt on the cover of #33 reminded me of a fanart I saw months ago. And I finally found it again (source). It's four years old and I can't remember if I have posted it already in the old thread. But Jason is too damn handsome on it to be forgotten:

----------


## Mr. White

> Solicits were leaked


I can get behind this. 
Best look he's had since...ever?. 
At least definitely since the New52 (sans the jacket).

----------


## Sergard

ellen



Jarrulus (there are also artworks of Damian, Dick and Tim in the same style)

----------


## Zaresh

So I guess the hair is back, and that suit is for interiors as well.

https://twitter.com/thatpetewoods/st...53702375284736

DxZYgulVAAA2TJX.jpg




> Changes are coming.


Sweet.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I think he'll play another version of himself: the businessman persona, similar to Bruce. 
> 
> Do you guys think the whole "legally dead" stuff will be addressed? That could be cool. 
> 
> "Weren't you one of the Bruce Wayne's dead kids?"


The solicit implies he will pull an Ironman and claim he has Red Hood on his payroll.






> So I guess the hair is back, and that suit is for interiors as well.
> 
> https://twitter.com/thatpetewoods/st...53702375284736
> 
> DxZYgulVAAA2TJX.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> Sweet.


He looks downright villainous.

----------


## Zaresh

> He looks downright villainous.


He looks like someone from Mad Men.
Wait.

Yes, he looks villainous. That doesn't mean he's evil or a villain, though.

----------


## G-Potion

Yeah he's kinda supposed to look that way, viscious takeover and everything.

----------


## G-Potion

http://inkydandy.tumblr.com/post/182...or-i-spent-the

----------


## G-Potion

http://th-i-o.tumblr.com/post/181243847735

----------


## G-Potion

http://jadeowl19.tumblr.com/post/182164055443




https://mobile.twitter.com/ultron6159

----------


## Zaresh

At this point, I think the green vest suit + mask and domino combo is already the winner of the most recent wardrobe choices of Jason.

As a men-in-vests lover, I fully welcome it.

----------


## G-Potion

Hence the explosion of fanart. Still I can't tell if it's green or it's the lighting. The belt seems yellow. Which I think is a striking addition.  :Big Grin: 

https://mobile.twitter.com/mcmramcm



Back to YJ Jason for a bit.

https://mobile.twitter.com/gothamtwinks

----------


## Zaresh

> Hence the explosion of fanart. Still I can't tell if it's green or it's the lighting. The belt seems yellow. Which I think is a striking addition. 
> 
> https://mobile.twitter.com/mcmramcm
> 
> 
> 
> Back to YJ Jason for a bit.
> 
> https://mobile.twitter.com/gothamtwinks


I think, at least in the cover, that the whole suit is dark green (very dark, almost black; and I don't know, but I feel like velvet fabric would be fitting here), with the vest in a lighter shade. The contrast with the red (complementary) and the yellow accents (analog to the green) is a nice palette.

And also, a nod to the Robin colour scheme.

But we will see for sure once #33 is out \o/.

Nice set of pictures btw. Loving them.

----------


## G-Potion

Skipped to AK because this is just hilarious.

http://m-alejandrita.tumblr.com/post/182182455060

----------


## G-Potion



----------


## Zaresh

> 


That's a plot twist in a comic strip.
Yep.
A well done plot twist in a comic strip.

Day starts good  :Big Grin: .

(And I love the texture in the art: pretty for a rough, rustic type)

----------


## G-Potion

> I think, at least in the cover, that the whole suit is dark green (very dark, almost black; and I don't know, but I feel like velvet fabric would be fitting here), with the vest in a lighter shade. The contrast with the red (complementary) and the yellow accents (analog to the green) is a nice palette.
> 
> And also, a nod to the Robin colour scheme.


Yeah would be cool if the suit is dark green. Then Jason would have pulled off the stop lights color scheme gracefully. The yellow helping complete the Robin color scheme aside, I love how it adds youthfulness to his look. Now he's a young and vicious boss. ;p

----------


## Zaresh

> Yeah would be cool if the suit is dark green. Then Jason would have pulled off the stop lights color scheme gracefully while looking like a boss at the same time. ;p


Of course  :Big Grin: .
Heeey, I know it's wishful thinking, I know; but wishing's for free! Can't be helped.

----------


## Lirica

> I think, at least in the cover, that the whole suit is dark green (very dark, almost black; and I don't know, but I feel like velvet fabric would be fitting here), with the vest in a lighter shade. The contrast with the red (complementary) and the yellow accents (analog to the green) is a nice palette.
> 
> And also, a nod to the Robin colour scheme.


I was thinking that the lighting made parts of the outfit look gray, but your idea makes waaay more sense. I hope this is the case.

----------


## Sergard

I don't know if I like the idea of Jason wearing the "Robin" color scheme because red, green and yellow is a very weird combination in general in my eyes.
But I'm willing to wait and see how Jason will look in the comic.
Dexter Soy made red, blue and brown work. So let's see how Woods will handle red, green and yellow.

----------


## Sergard

When you start to delete some lines because you are curious how the end result will look like:




It's interesting to see how much a few lines can change a face - on the other hand, Jason still looks like a mean guy, probably because of the one-sided smirk and the evil eyebrows.

----------


## Arsenal

Am I the only one who thinks his hair look similar to the actor who plays him on Titans?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

He reminds me a lot of the Joker

----------


## Sergard

Jaytim_rr

----------


## Kratos767

[img] https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxZoOo-X...pg&name=medium [/img]
http://shoucolate.tumblr.com/post/18...n-up-against-a

----------


## Sergard

AKI






And Artemis in her current style. by Shoucolate

----------


## Raijin

> 


It makes me want to see Jaybird take on a protege a little bit.

----------


## Arsenal

His protege would have to be old. I can’t see this version of Jason willingly teaching a child to follow in his footsteps

----------


## Raijin

> His protege would have to be old. I cant see this version of Jason willingly teaching a child to follow in his footsteps


I understand what youre saying. But would it really be any different than Batman, Green Arrow and Flash recruiting children for their crusade?

Edit: Nope youre right. It wouldnt be a good idea to be a protege of Red Hood at such a young age. The kid could definitely walk away feeling very traumatized by certain things.

----------


## Arsenal

> I understand what you’re saying. But would it really be any different than Batman, Green Arrow and Flash recruiting children for their crusade?
> 
> Edit: Nope you’re right. It wouldn’t be a good idea to be a protege of Red Hood at such a young age. The kid could definitely walk away feeling very traumatized by certain things.


I just don't see Jason being ok training a child and leading them into battle when he...you know, died being a teenage sidekick.

----------


## G-Potion

> When you start to delete some lines because you are curious how the end result will look like:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's interesting to see how much a few lines can change a face - on the other hand, Jason still looks like a mean guy, probably because of the one-sided smirk and the evil eyebrows.


Thanks for making this *@Sergard*. I was wondering about the same thing and although I do like fewer lines to make him look younger, without coloring the plane of the face does look a bit too flat.

----------


## Sergard

The TEEN TITANS #26 preview was released yesterday. Jason gets mentioned.
http://www.comicosity.com/exclusive-...een-titans-26/

*spoilers:*
Damian: ""My source* on The Other has been compromised."
*Robin's secret mentor: The Red Hood!
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Sergard

Talon Dick and Young Justice Jason by Strialternatives:

----------


## G-Potion

http://small001.lofter.com/

----------


## G-Potion

http://ballwhite.lofter.com/

----------


## G-Potion

-养生健肝旭-



https://weibo.com/small001

----------


## Sergard

anna (@soosdraws)

----------


## G-Potion

So many arts! This look really is a winner.

----------


## Zaresh

> So many arts! This look really is a winner.


Definitely. And rightfully so.
I'm tempted to ask Woods about which colour it will be, if deepo green or black.

----------


## G-Potion

> Definitely. And rightfully so.
> I'm tempted to ask Woods about which colour it will be, if deepo green or black.


Doooo ittt I want to know too.  :Big Grin:

----------


## Sergard

The new look is definitely fanbase approved.
I wish _DC Nation_ would still exist and that there would be a few pages dedicated to creating Jason's new look like DC did for the last one.
Maybe Woods played a little with different types of suits, hairstyles and color schemes. I want to see them all.

----------


## Zaresh

> Doooo ittt I want to know too.


And... I did it  :Big Grin: . I guess, if he answers our question, he will do it in an hour or two.

----------


## Sergard

Some Young Justice Jason by whippy




And some Titans Dick and Jason by whippy: _Hey, bro!_

----------


## Sergard

無Ga. (@circus_0625) 






And some Priest Jason by  まいご (@orangepie_want) 







There is so much stuff on Twitter.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

We got a new toy!

DC ESSENTIALS: RED HOOD ACTION FIGURE
DC ESSENTIALS is a line of 7" action figures based on DC characters with universal appeal, accessible to both longtime collectors and those just starting out. These figures deliver authentic detail from a company with two decades’ experience creating high-quality action figures. Joining the collection is the enigmatic and violent Red Hood. Once a Robin and now a vigilante outlaw, the man under the hood is extremely proficient in both weaponry and hand-to-hand combat, and this figure showcases both sides of his skills and persona. Highly poseable and with a small arsenal of weapons to equip, this Red Hood is a great addition for action figure collectors.
• Figure measures 6.96" tall
• Allocations may occur
• Final products may differ from images shown
ON SALE SEPTEMBER 2019
$26.00 US

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

And here are April's covers

----------


## Zaresh

> And here are April's covers


Ugh, still not liking the variant. This is so 90's in an unpleasant way... Sure some people will love it, but... Not me.

----------


## Lirica

> We got a new toy!
> 
> DC ESSENTIALS: RED HOOD ACTION FIGURE
> DC ESSENTIALS is a line of 7" action figures based on DC characters with universal appeal, accessible to both longtime collectors and those just starting out. These figures deliver authentic detail from a company with two decades experience creating high-quality action figures. Joining the collection is the enigmatic and violent Red Hood. Once a Robin and now a vigilante outlaw, the man under the hood is extremely proficient in both weaponry and hand-to-hand combat, and this figure showcases both sides of his skills and persona. Highly poseable and with a small arsenal of weapons to equip, this Red Hood is a great addition for action figure collectors.
>  Figure measures 6.96" tall
>  Allocations may occur
>  Final products may differ from images shown
> ON SALE SEPTEMBER 2019
> $26.00 US


Oh hey, an action figure of a character I like and can afford!

----------


## Zaresh

So I've got the best answer possible, guys:

https://twitter.com/thatpetewoods/st...203752960?s=09

Attachment 77436

@G-Pots was right: all the green was a lighting effect in the cover. It's all black and grey, with the shirt in red.

----------


## G-Potion

> Ugh, still not liking the variant. This is so 90's in an unpleasant way... Sure some people will love it, but... Not me.


Same. This doesn't fit the character at all. :/

----------


## Zaresh

I can understand that feel. I'm still waiting for the funko to arrive to my local, specialiced store though (I cannot believe we have one: marvels of the modern times).

Edit: I lost my quote to @Lirica somewhere in the way to post this, lol.

----------


## G-Potion

> Oh hey, an action figure of a character I like *and can afford*!


Haha I feel this so much. I usually can't afford this hobby because I have a completionist streak and I'd go broke if I try to collect them all . But I do have a Funko Red Hood because a coworker just happened to see it at a store and bought it for me as a gift. Was surprised though because I didn't expect them to have it where I live. Even the owner of the shop didn't know about Jason. :>

----------


## G-Potion

> So I've got the best answer possible, guys:
> 
> https://twitter.com/thatpetewoods/st...203752960?s=09
> 
> Attachment 77436
> 
> @G-Pots was right: all the green was a lighting effect in the cover. It's all black and grey, with the shirt in red.


Hey, thanks, @*Zaresh*!! It's not green but we still get a peak at the rough design. I love all the detail markings, and the belt is still cool. Gold buckle would you say?

----------


## G-Potion

> There is so much stuff on Twitter.


These are all degrees of cute and pretty.  :Embarrassment:

----------


## Zaresh

> Hey, thanks, @*Zaresh*!! It's not green but we still get a peak at the rough design. I love all the detail markings, and the belt is still cool. Gold buckle would you say?


You're welcome :3

Yep, it seems gold. Could be bronze, too. We will know when the light hits it, I guess. But it really doesn't make much of a difference colourwise, either some shade of yellow or methalic light golden or darker bronze.

----------


## Lirica

> I can understand that feel. I'm still waiting for the funko to arrive to my local, specialiced store though (I cannot believe we have one: marvels of the modern times).
> 
> Edit: I lost my quote to @Lirica somewhere in the way to post this, lol.


That's exciting. Hope it arrives soon!




> Haha I feel this so much. *I usually can't afford this hobby because I have a completionist streak and I'd go broke if I try to collect them all .* But I do have a Funko Red Hood because a coworker just happened to see it at a store and bought it for me as a gift. Was surprised though because I didn't expect them to have it where I live. Even the owner of the shop didn't know about Jason. :>


Bolded for the truth. A lot of what I have in this hobby were gifts or bought with some kind of gift card.  :Stick Out Tongue: 
That's really wonderful of your coworker! I do have a couple pops, but sadly, I only started getting into Jason after that pop sold out at regular price. I even remember seeing it too!

----------


## Sergard

Si0g0

----------


## RedBird

gothamtwinks

----------


## RedBird

bluetost_T

----------


## RedBird

I love that there's no real indication that the umbrella will be used in the comic beyond a token of how Jason is mocking Penguins power and authority on that cover, there's no telling if its _actually_ part of the final design, but gosh dang it, that won't stop the artists from goin nuts with the concept XD

It just makes the whole outfit THAT much more dapper.

----------


## Arsenal

No Jason appearance in the recent teen titans.

But given some the dialogue, I’m feeling a tad more hopeful about how the annual will go.

----------


## G-Potion

> Si0g0


This comment makes it even better.

----------


## G-Potion

> I love that there's no real indication that the umbrella will be used in the comic beyond a token of how Jason is mocking Penguins power and authority on that cover, there's no telling if its _actually_ part of the final design, but gosh dang it, that won't stop the artists from goin nuts with the concept XD
> 
> It just makes the whole outfit THAT much more dapper.


I really hope Jason keeps the umbrella. This combined with the mask would make his a unique look rather than just a suit. And it's perfectly in character as well.

On another note, I wonder if Jason will completely depend on Wingman's resources to take over Penguin's business. Does Jason still have a hold on Black Mask's empire? Might be useful.

----------


## Sergard

> I really hope Jason keeps the umbrella. This combined with the mask would make his a unique look rather than just a suit. And it's perfectly in character as well.
> 
> On another note, I wonder if Jason will completely depend on Wingman's resources to take over Penguin's business. Does Jason still have a hold on Black Mask's empire? Might be useful.


Plot twist: Jason's new suit is out of Black Mask's wardrobe. Except the umbrella. I loved that Jason stole the hoodie from some random defeated enemy in RHatO #26. I wish DC would make this some sort of thing that he does. And Jason would be hardly the only DC character who takes a victory prize. Look at all the stuff in the Batcave. Like father, like son.






> No Jason appearance in the recent teen titans.
> 
> But given some the dialogue, I’m feeling a tad more hopeful about how the annual will go.


Could you maybe give me a short summary what happened? My comic store didn't receive the issue in this week's shipping. So I have to wait until next week.

----------


## Arsenal

> Plot twist: Jason's new suit is out of Black Mask's wardrobe. Except the umbrella. That thing obviously belongs to the Penguin. I loved that Jason stole the hoodie from some random defeated enemy in RHatO #26. I wish that DC would make that some sort of running gag. And Jason would be hardly the only DC character who does that. Look at all the stuff in the Batcave. Like father, like son.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could you maybe give me some short summary what happened? My comic store didn't receive the issue in this week's shipping. So I have to wait until next week.


The teen titans breaking into the bat cave is really just a distraction so Damian can retire something hidden in a small box with a bat symbol on it. Alfred confronts him, defends Jason and warns Damian to re-evaluate the situation. Damian does not. We also seemingly get some more insight regarding why he wanted to work with Jason (not much but I expect it to be built on in next weeks Annual)

----------


## Sergard

> The teen titans breaking into the bat cave is really just a distraction so Damian can retire something hidden in a small box with a bat symbol on it. Alfred confronts him, defends Jason and warns Damian to re-evaluate the situation. Damian does not. We also seemingly get some more insight regarding why he wanted to work with Jason (not much but I expect it to be built on in next weeks Annual)


Thanks for the summary. You really made me curious, so I bought the digital version.

*spoilers:*
The issue was interesting, and I love how Alfred defends Jason (while holding an umbrella - is that an Easter Egg?).
My favorite moment was a painting of Jason on the wall close to the "family portrait". (There was a portrait of Dick too, and by the look of it, all three paintings were done by the same artist)
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Sergard

Pete Woods on Twitter:




New characters in RH:O?

----------


## Sergard

> Jason (new costume) + Tim
> 
> maple_DC
> 
> 
> 
> It's so dapper and sleek, I love it


I don't know for sure if there's a connection, but Tim's clothes look very similar.

@baskinrobins69




And some Young Justice Jason and Tim by myjjyyd

----------


## Sergard

myjjyyd




@Chalalala15 




Version 2.0

----------


## Arsenal

> Pete Woods on Twitter:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New characters in RH:O?


Kind of looks like creeper.

----------


## Zaresh

> Pete Woods on Twitter:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New characters in RH:O?


Mmm... Reminds me of someone, to be honest. But I don't know who. He is build like Crane, but he has long hair. No clue who could he be.

----------


## AJpyro

> Pete Woods on Twitter:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New characters in RH:O?


Is that the Scarecrow from Batman Beyond?

----------


## Arsenal

> Is that the Scarecrow from Batman Beyond?


Now that you mention it, it does kind of look like it.

----------


## G-Potion

> The teen titans breaking into the bat cave is really just a distraction so Damian can retire something hidden in a small box with a bat symbol on it. Alfred confronts him, defends Jason and warns Damian to re-evaluate the situation. Damian does not. We also seemingly get some more insight regarding why he wanted to work with Jason (not much but I expect it to be built on in next weeks Annual)


Just read it. I have no idea what's going on but it's really nice to see someone defend Jason outside of his own book. They even remember the 'family portrait'. Cool!

----------


## Jackalope89

> Just read it. I have no idea what's going on but it's really nice to see someone defend Jason outside of his own book. They even remember the 'family portrait'. Cool!


Man, Alfred is the father the Robins deserve.

----------


## G-Potion

> Thanks for the summary. You really made me curious, so I bought the digital version.
> 
> *spoilers:*
> The issue was interesting, and I love how Alfred defends Jason (while holding an umbrella - is that an Easter Egg?).
> *end of spoilers*


Could be. I read a couple of TT's previous issues to have a better idea what's going on, and thought the BOOM blood message in #23 might have been a nod to RHO#26 where Jason left the same message in the car.

----------


## G-Potion

Travis Mercer

----------


## Zaresh

> Travis Mercer


Love it. I wonder if he will ink/clean it. I also read his comment: Woods definitely made a hit, everyone is liking that suit design :__D.

----------


## Zaresh

Just passing by (I'm not at home) to say that there has been some discussion in the DCcomics subreddit about Bendis' rumoured Leviatan story, again, and things don't look good for Jason. I may be biased, because I loathe the idea of him taking over the character (because I've grown so burnt for him in Marvel), but eh, I strongly would rather not, at all, never.

As much as I think he will do a more than decent work in YJ, please, don't put Bendis in a book that doesn't suit him. Not when he already is in half a dozen books. That cannot end well :/.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Oh god.

If that comes to happen (that I sincerely hope it won't), I wonder if us Jason fans could make enough ruckus on social media to revert things like it happened with Hydra Cap.

----------


## G-Potion

With the way RHO is going, Jason's likely to be given enough resource for his rumored role in Leviathan to be more possible now, sadly. But the reboot RHATO rumor with Roy is new to me. Where did it come from? In any case, I just hope Lobdell will still have a say when it comes to Jason.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> With the way RHO is going, Jason's likely to be given enough resource for his rumored role in Leviathan to be more possible now, sadly. But the reboot RHATO rumor with Roy is new to me. Where did it come from? In any case, I just hope Lobdell will still have a say when it comes to Jason.


That is just speculation at the moment, based on the fact Bendis started following Jason and Roy focused fan accounts on Twitter and seemingly, he only does that for characters he writes.

----------


## Lirica

Exactly as @Dark_Tzitzimine said. That's how I heard it.

I'm not really sure what to think of the Leviathan and Bendis stuff. I'm not really familiar with the concept or creator.

----------


## G-Potion

> That is just speculation at the moment, based on the fact Bendis started following Jason and Roy focused fan accounts on Twitter and seemingly, he only does that for characters he writes.


Yeah I just checked. The number of Jason-related twitter accounts he's following is surprising.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

However, is interesting how something as banal as that showcases his mindset. Following accounts related to characters one is involved in the creative side is something relatively normal and even encouraged, but only following fan accounts instead of the creatives working with those characters, not so much.

----------


## Mataza

> However, is interesting how something as banal as that showcases his mindset. Following accounts related to characters one is involved in the creative side is something relatively normal and even encouraged, but only following fan accounts instead of the creatives working with those characters, not so much.


Eh, he wants a feel for what fans think of the character. Those that have followed the character for decades. It makes sense to me.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Eh, he wants a feel for what fans think of the character. Those that have followed the character for decades. It makes sense to me.


Yeah, but that shouldn't come at the expense of all the hard work other creatives have put on the character. There has to be a balance.

----------


## Arsenal

Could one of y’all drop a link? I can’t find it.

----------


## Mataza

> Yeah, but that shouldn't come at the expense of all the hard work other creatives have put on the character. There has to be a balance.


He seems to trust the fanbase more than the writers. To be honest i cant find any fault with that. He can always read the books or give the other writers a call if needed, so following them on twitter seems rather pointless.
Not that i want to defend Bendis, just saying, it makes sense that he would care more about what Dark_Tzitzimine has to say about Jason than what Tynion does.

----------


## Sergard

> Could one of yall drop a link? I cant find it.


https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/co...t_from_bendis/

At least I think the others are talking about that discussion.

----------


## Zaresh

> Could one of y’all drop a link? I can’t find it.


It's here. The discussion about Jason is by the second or third root reply.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/co...t_from_bendis/

Edit. ooops. Unneeded link. This is me with a lag the size of the Empire State.




> Yeah, but that shouldn't come at the expense of all the hard work other creatives have put on the character. There has to be a balance.


Pretty much, I agree. But then, Bendis isn't known by how much he sticks to the previous writers' work. So it makes sense.




> He seems to trust the fanbase more than the writers. *To be honest i cant find any fault with that.* He can always read the books or give the other writers a call if needed, so following them on twitter seems rather pointless.
> Not that i want to defend Bendis, just saying, it makes sense that he would care more about what Dark_Tzitzimine has to say about Jason than what Tynion does.


I do, though. Fans usually are highly biased, have their (our) own headcanons who may end in infinite ship wars, rewriting the whole story of the character and reducing him to merely two or three character traits. Which is, unfortunately, what happens with a lot of fanfics.

And don't get me wrong: I love reading fanfics; but they often have this problem in which the characters are, well, barely themselves, and lack depth. They become, in a lot of works, a bunch of behaviour routines and gestures because that's what most of fans remember from them. Or they give characters traits they don't show because it fits a certain archetype. Case in point, Jason often smokes and swears in the fandom, when he doesn't, at all, in the comics. No only he does not swear, he doesn't speak like some uneducated punk in the comics. In fact, he's rather eloquent, and uses an speech that, for me (I'm not a native speaker) comes across as very polite, even when he does speak in a very informal way.

Which, for me again, is something I love, because as someone who is in the low side of the income range (I'm not, well, I'm not poor, but I wouldn't say I'm middle class either) I often have to deal with people who falls in the assumption that someone who doesn't have economic possibilities has to be uneducated and doesn't have an interest in culture. So Jason coming from a worse place and yet being written like he is, makes me like him more (and dislike that kind of portrayal).

----------


## Sergard

Okay, before I forget it for the umpteenth time: When should the re-read start? I'd suggest at the weekend, i.e. Friday night, Saturday or Sunday. So there won't be any direct overlaps with new releases.
We could already start this week - or some time later. If I recall correctly, we are only four, five people doing the re-read. So it should be doable that we find a time everyone is okay with.

And now some fanarts I found on twitter:

@kumoriix _started as a warmup but then turned to semi-realism and into a full piece just got into DC, especially jason todd (obviously)_




@_koko_nutt_ _I drew Jason Todd as robin because hes my legit fave tho_




lightning strikes - an artist I can recommend in general, even if the last Jason artwork is from September, but there is a lot of cute/cool older stuff with Jason and/or the batfam; for example:



That fanart really makes me smile. Robins are like a box of abandoned kittens. You don't just take out the one you like the most and leave the rest behind. You have to take them all.

----------


## Zaresh

Saturday sounds good for me: half a week to any release, and we have the previews either by friday or by monday, and they usually have their own threads. So that way we'll always have something to discuss on board.

----------


## Sergard

@Vorimar_raaaaan

----------


## Sergard

@RymSlim

----------


## G-Potion

> Okay, before I forget it for the umpteenth time: When should the re-read start? I'd suggest at the weekend, i.e. Friday night, Saturday or Sunday. So there won't be any direct overlaps with new releases.
> We could already start this week - or some time later. If I recall correctly, we are only four, five people doing the re-read. So it should be doable that we find a time everyone is okay with.


Saturday's good for me too. We can start anytime.

----------


## JasonTodd428

> He seems to trust the fanbase more than the writers. *To be honest i cant find any fault with that.* He can always read the books or give the other writers a call if needed, so following them on twitter seems rather pointless.
> Not that i want to defend Bendis, just saying, it makes sense that he would care more about what Dark_Tzitzimine has to say about Jason than what Tynion does.


Actually I can find fault with that because frankly fans are an extremely biased lot with, at times, some really strange notions and a great many of them are fans of the whole Jason as a one dimensional psychotic killing machine. In all honesty I'd much rather Bendis take a more balanced approach and temper his "fan views" of the character with some coming from people who have actually written Jason but I doubt very seriously that will happen. That being said if Bendis gets his hands on the character or if, God forbid, he should take over writing him on a more regular basis at some point I will simply stop reading. I had to drop his _Superman_ because of how terrible some of the characterizations were and how massively decompressed the story was so I don't have much good to say about Bendis's actual skills as a writer. I don't really trust him to do right by the character at all.

----------


## Sergard

> Actually I can find fault with that because frankly fans are an extremely biased lot with, at times, some really strange notions and a great many of them *are fans of the whole Jason as a one dimensional psychotic killing machine.* In all honesty I'd much rather Bendis take a more balanced approach and temper his "fan views" of the character with some coming from people who have actually written Jason but I doubt very seriously that will happen. That being said if Bendis gets his hands on the character or if, God forbid, he should take over writing him on a more regular basis at some point I will simply stop reading. I had to drop his _Superman_ because of how terrible some of the characterizations were and how massively decompressed the story was so I don't have much good to say about Bendis's actual skills as a writer. I don't really trust him to do right by the character at all.


But that are not Jason Todd fans. That are Dick Grayson fans (or to a lesser extent Bruce Wayne fans) who want Jason to be part of Dick's rogue gallery.
I at least hope that Bendis can distinguish the Jason Todd fanbase from people who just want to use Jason so that their favorite hero can "shine brighter".

----------


## G-Potion

Even Jason's fans can be very biased though, even ones whose fics I like to read. I had to unfollow a lot of tumblr blogs because of all the overreaction to Rebirth RHATO. A few examples, Jason/Artemis hate, Roy falling off the bandwagon (which wasn't Lobdell's doing he just knew it was gonna happen in Titans, but they like to blame him on everything), Willis being "a good dad" etc etc... It's funny how much people ramble about flat writing and cardboard characters but actually miss the three-dimensional part when it's presented to them.

----------


## Arsenal

Maybe we’ll get lucky and whatever plans Bendis may have for the character (should be have any) actually work out for us

----------


## JasonTodd428

> But that are not Jason Todd fans. That are Dick Grayson fans (or to a lesser extent Bruce Wayne fans) who want Jason to be part of Dick's rogue gallery.
> I at least hope that Bendis can distinguish the Jason Todd fanbase from people who just want to use Jason so that their favorite hero can "shine brighter".


I have to disagree with you there. There are Jason Todd fans out there that prefer him as a villain rather than as even an anti-hero and it's not always because they want him in Dick's rogue's gallery or because they are fans of Dick Grayson.  They oftentimes want Jason to be a thorn in Bruce's side as well.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Maybe we’ll get lucky and whatever plans Bendis may have for the character (should be have any) actually work out for us


When was the last time that Bendis influenced positively any character he wrote?

----------


## Arsenal

> When was the last time that Bendis influenced positively any character he wrote?


... I see your point, All I’m saying is maybe it won’t be as bad as we think.

----------


## G-Potion

> ... I see your point, All I’m saying is maybe it won’t be as bad as we think.


You know, I actually think so as well. Maybe I'm just an optimist.

----------


## Sergard

> I have to disagree with you there. There are Jason Todd fans out there that prefer him as a villain rather than as even an anti-hero and it's not always because they want him in Dick's rogue's gallery or because they are fans of Dick Grayson.  They oftentimes want Jason to be a thorn in Bruce's side as well.


"... to be part of Dick's rogue gallery (or Bruce' rogue gallery)." is what I meant.

Sometimes I feel that people don't understand the term "villain". Fighting a hero doesn't turn a character automatically in a villain.
Further, I still stand by my point that Jason was not a villain in UtRH. He was the antagonist.

----------


## JasonTodd428

> ... I see your point, All Im saying is maybe it wont be as bad as we think.





> You know, I actually think so as well. Maybe I'm just an optimist.


I'm not willing to bet on that myself after reading his characterization of Flash in Superman. At best I think we'll get yet another mediocre outing for Jason and at worst he will be terribly out of character and will spew Bendis-speak just to make what Superman says and does look that much better by comparison. Bendis may have a great voice for Superman but his handling of everyone else around him needs massive improvement in my opinion especially in the Superman book. I wish I could be optimistic about this one like G is but after seeing how he handles other characters I just can't find it in myself to be.

----------


## JasonTodd428

> "... to be part of Dick's rogue gallery (or Bruce' rogue gallery)." is what I meant.
> 
> Sometimes I feel that people don't understand the term "villain". Fighting a hero doesn't turn a character automatically in a villain.
> Further, I still stand by my point that Jason was not a villain in UtRH. He was the antagonist.


That's the problem. There are people out there that just want him to be a straight up villain not just an antagonist, which is an entirely different thing. I do agree with you that he was an antagonist in UtRH rather than a villain but I think people may have started to think of him as a villain after that point. I think things started to change once Jason started to be used as the "Villain of the week" that writers pulled out whenever they got tired of using the standard rogues. By associating him with the others in that way they may have inadvertently created a connection between him and the term "villain" or "rogue".

----------


## Zaresh

You guys probably know already how I feel about Bendis writing yet another of my favourite characters. And probably also know how much I don't like how he writes and how much his work has burnt me from his days in Marvel. Going by what I've read in other places and by what @JasonTodd428 says (I trust him), I can see he hasn't changed his habits.

I don't hold hope for Jason in his hands. I hope I am wrong, if the case arises, for all that's loved.
But mostly, I won't hold it.

I do think he will write an enjoyable YJ run, though: teen, flashy stories, with lots of melodrama and without the pretension of having some epic or complex plot are one of his strengths, I think. Same as normal melodrama between regular adults (here I dont like him, but as far as I know, people who like that, like his work). And he's not bad at simple street-level stories. He can pull something enjoyable if he goes for an easy, fun and adventurous approach for that book.

Edit: also, I think Jason in Under the Hood was more like this actually: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AntiVillain An Anti-Villain, who also was an antagonist. Anti-Heroes often can cross to that territory if pushed. Well, in fact, I think he was also some kind of protagonist in the story, more than just the guy that brings conflict to the hero's path.

----------


## Jackalope89

> You guys probably know already how I feel about Bendis writing yet another of my favourite characters. And probably also know how much I don't like how he writes and how much his work has burnt me from his days in Marvel. Going by what I've read in other places and by what @JasonTodd428 says (I trust him), I can see he hasn't changed his habits.
> 
> I don't hold hope for Jason in his hands. I hope I am wrong, if the case arises, for all that's loved.
> But mostly, I won't hold it.
> 
> I do think he will write an enjoyable YJ run, though: teen, flashy stories, with lots of melodrama and without the pretension of having some epic or complex plot are one of his strengths, I think. Same as normal melodrama between regular adults (here I dont like him, but as far as I know, people who like that, like his work). And he's not bad at simple street-level stories. He can pull something enjoyable if he goes for an easy, fun and adventurous approach for that book.
> 
> Edit: also, I think Jason in Under the Hood was more like this actually: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AntiVillain An Anti-Villain, who also was an antagonist. Anti-Heroes often can cross to that territory if pushed. Well, in fact, I think he was also some kind of protagonist in the story, more than just the guy that brings conflict to the hero's path.


Yeah, Bendis has really divided the Super fandom since he took over. I gave it a shot, but holy crap has he torn down established characters to push his own narrative. His Lois Lane is the most inconsistently written character thus far. She went from being a mama bear in Rebirth that wouldn't let anyone hurt her Kryptonians, to a negligent mother, "needing her space" wife, and hiding her existence from her own husband Lois. Don't even get me started on aging Jon up 7 years right when Bendis brings Connor back.

----------


## Sergard

Losaf

----------


## oasis1313

> Yeah, Bendis has really divided the Super fandom since he took over. I gave it a shot, but holy crap has he torn down established characters to push his own narrative. His Lois Lane is the most inconsistently written character thus far. She went from being a mama bear in Rebirth that wouldn't let anyone hurt her Kryptonians, to a negligent mother, "needing her space" wife, and hiding her existence from her own husband Lois. Don't even get me started on aging Jon up 7 years right when Bendis brings Connor back.


Bendis would do nothing but undermine Dick, Jason, and Damian because he's 1000% on Team Timmy.  I hope he gets bored real quick and moves on someplace else.

----------


## RedBird

flaffizz

----------


## Jackalope89

> flaffizz


Hello, I'm dapper Red Hood, and this is my fantastic eatery that I totally got by legal means.

----------


## Sergard

Seems like Cully Hamner is staying as a cover artist for RH:O.

Cully Hammer RHO cover artist.jpg

----------


## Zaresh

> Seems like Cully Hammer is staying as a cover artist for RH:O.
> 
> Cully Hammer RHO cover artist.jpg


Good.

As someone said there, they make for a good pairing. And the cover is very eye catching: pretty and cool.

Also, loving the love for that suit-mask-umbrella.

And Woods commented yesterday that he was working on six new designs and redesigns for DC. So maybe we will get a few new and/or old regular characters "soon".

----------


## G-Potion

> flaffizz


Damn. Perfection.

----------


## G-Potion

> Seems like Cully Hammer is staying as a cover artist for RH:O.


Good. I want more Jason and his fabulous hair.

----------


## Sergard

I really love all the artworks of Young Justice Jason and Jason's new design in RH:O but I had hoped that Dog would receive the same attention from fan artists.

----------


## Aahz

> I really love all the artworks of Young Justice Jason and Jason's new design in RH:O but I had hoped that Dog would receive the same attention from fan artists.


I'm not really a fan of the Young Justice design. And i would have preferred if they made him taller and bulkier.

----------


## Zaresh

> I'm not really a fan of the Young Justice design. And i would have preferred if they made him taller and bulkier.


To be fair, Jason is a teenager in YJ, ¿right? He's not an adult yet, and then, YJ designs tend to be slim, males too.

----------


## Jackalope89

> To be fair, Jason is a teenager in YJ, ¿right? He's not an adult yet, and then, YJ designs tend to be slim, males too.


I wouldn't exactly call Connor "slim". Same with Lobo, the Terror Twins, etc.

----------


## Aahz

> To be fair, Jason is a teenager in YJ, ¿right? He's not an adult yet, and then, YJ designs tend to be slim, males too.


He should be around 18 afaik.

----------


## Jackalope89

> He should be around 18 afaik.


Coincidentally (or maybe not) about the same age as Brion, Violet, Victor, and possibly Forager. 

What exactly Ra's and Talia have planned for him though, remains to be seen.

----------


## Sergard

The Jason Todd Reread Thread has been created. This weekend we discuss Batman #357.
Further, you find a link to the thread in the OP of this thread under "Other interesting stuff" (at the end of the OP).

----------


## Aahz

> Coincidentally (or maybe not) about the same age as Brion, Violet, Victor, and possibly Forager.


Btw. Brion and Victor seem also much smaller and slimmer than usual.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Btw. Brion and Victor seem also much smaller and slimmer than usual.


Well, Victor wasn't always the 90% machine he's been portrayed as lately.

----------


## Aahz

> Well, Victor wasn't always the 90% machine he's been portrayed as lately.


But he was always a pretty huge guy. And a lot taller than Dick.

----------


## Sergard

I have only seen clips of Young Justice. Jason is a little smaller than Dick, or?
Maybe Jason is not yet fully grown. Whatever happened to him could have slowed down/delayed his growth.



Oh, and here's a batfam fanart I've seen in the Batwoman appreciation thread.

Vhyrel

----------


## Jackalope89

> I have only seen clips of Young Justice. Jason is a little smaller than Dick, or?
> Maybe Jason is not yet fully grown. Whatever happened to him could have slowed down/delayed his growth.


Well, it seems up until the end of the scene, Jason's memories still eluded him. But after his little fight with Dick, they seem to begin to return.

What exactly Weisman has planned for Jason, I don't know yet. But canonically, he's right about the same age as the other heroes that Dick has been collecting.

----------


## Zaresh

And here we go again, with an all-new "recommended fanfics" list for you, fellow fans! _Here Be Dragons_ (and elves and bats), in this post, because it collects fanfics with Jason as a main character which are of the *traditional fantasy* genre. This means *sword and sorcery*, and *epic and adventure* with fantastic beasts, monsters and peoples. And dragons. Did I say I love dragons?

The Knight's Quest, by @chibi_nightowl. This started as a very indulgent story with lots of banter, fluff and smut, but soon developed into a very interesting plot with a nice mystery, good drama and enjoyable dynamics. The main character is Tim, which happens to be a knight in an impossible quest and has a lot of issues; but Jason (who is a dragon with a lot of self-confidence and also some other issues) is the deuteragonist, the second lead, and soon as important for the narrative as Tim is. We even get to read from his POV a few times (and I suspect that trend will continue in the next parts of the series). Even if the start is a bit weak and story doesn't pick up until they leave Jason's lair (chapter 4 or so), I got hooked very strongly when they started to hint to some weird moves and changes in what are our actual DCU relationships and blood bonds. Especially those surrounding Tim, but the ones with Jason, even if more in line with the DCU, also are an interesting take. Overall, this is a bit like what you can find in The Witcher books, if you have read them (but less angsty, because Tim is angsty, but nowhere near Geralt levels). *Mature content* (but I think it borders in explicit), and obvious* JayTim ship*. I'm looking forward to the next part.

Fire-Blind, by @Skalidra. It's not finished, it probably will be way longer than a few chapters, and it's updated sparsely; but I'm going to list it because I was surprised by how much I liked and because it has already a few hours of reading within. Again, this is a story of a human and a dragon. Jason is a knight, a dragon rider, who is kidnaped (or more like raptured) by a wild dragon when he's fighting him (and losing against him, dying bassically). When he wakes up, he mets with some mystery, annoying, mischievous man—Slade, who calls himself the dragon's associate. You can guess he's the dragon, obviously; but Jason doesn't. And Slade is possessive and tricky and, well, very deathstroke-y. I'm not a fan of this ship, the *Jason/Slade* ship (for reasons); but hey, this Slade is very readable, and it's a lot like reading a Jason soliloquy about what's happening when he's trapped in his lair. So, so far, I'm liking it. It's *mature rated*, more because what's probably going to depict than because what has depicted.

(Not A) Monster, by @Skalidra. So this is a mix of a road movie and a samurai story in a fantasy setting. The summary and tags don't do it any justice, bassically. I liked it a lot, even if the start is a bit of a heavy read and the last chapter is not as intense as the rest of the story was. But it's quite good. There is a slow burning Jason/Damian ship, and definitely explicit content of the uncomfortable kind: but keep in mind that this Damian is an adult by all means.

Blood-Stained, by @M00n_Slippers. This fic is very, very good, but also barely a "fan" fic. It plays with the characters' names and motives and some of their traits and backgrounds; but to be honest, you could name each character with new names and the story would still hold itself just fine. It's* explicit targeted*, but it's written in such a smart style that you barely notice it (and the explicit content is plot related). Ship is* JayTim*, but again, because the plot works towards it naturally. Tim is the lead and the narrator's POV, but it's very Jason centered (well, this Jason): he's the case this Tim is working on. It reminded me a lot of Natsume Yuujinchou, if you know that anime or manga: same mood and style. I hope the writer writes more in this same 'verse.

And that's all for now. I will update the other posts with a few fics I've found that fit their themes, and then revisit previous posts to see if there are more of your recs that could be linked in this one. I'm currently a bit busy with IRL stuff, but I'll try to write a new rec post next week  :Smile: . And as usual, any new recommendation is welcome.

----------


## Zaresh

> I wouldn't exactly call Connor "slim". Same with Lobo, the Terror Twins, etc.


But then, Conn*e*r is as bulky as any other super, who are usually +Bruce levels of muscle. Edit: Ok, maybe the designs in YJ are slender because the style they use. I stand corrected.




> He should be around 18 afaik.


Oh, ok, them. I thought he was still 16.




> The Jason Todd Reread Thread has been created. This weekend we discuss Batman #357.
> Further, you find a link to the thread in the OP of this thread under "Other interesting stuff" (at the end of the OP).


Cool. Thanks, @Sergard!

And nice art, again :3, nice arrangement of the characters too.

Edit: "Ghosts and Urban Fantasy" and "Jason is another kind of hero" have been both updated. I guess our next list is going to be the one about familial relationships, because the amount of fics in that category is going to be BIG  :Big Grin: .

----------


## Sergard

Karin (and other Jason Todd artworks)

----------


## oasis1313

Jason has the BEST fan-art!!!!!!!!

----------


## Jackalope89



----------


## Zaresh

New weekend, new desk shot from Woods' twitter.




> On the desk today. Who or what could be surprising Fancy Jason?

----------


## oasis1313

> New weekend, new desk shot from Woods' twitter.
> IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dx40TfrUwAEB7zR.jpg[/IMG]


Zaresh, I noticed your tag line about not sleeping and was concerned.  Is there an insomnia problem? (if I'm not being too personal).

----------


## Zaresh

> Zaresh, I noticed your tag line about not sleeping and was concerned.  Is there an insomnia problem? (if I'm not being too personal).


It's not too personal.

I've always been nocturnal, but yes, I also have some imsomnia problems. Always has had, since I was a kid (since I was a baby really). Only way to make me sleep fast once I'm in my bed is if I'm physically or mentally tired. I do sleep well when I have a job or a full schedue of activities each day, so this problem disappears when I have a job. If not, I always get distracted, need to do something, like reading. I have a hard time stopping thinking. Not a healthy routine, but I've seem worse.

That said, once I finally find my way to the dreamlands, I sleep for seven or eight hours just fine if I'm allowed and don't have to wake up at some given time. But I remember passing my training as teacher a few years ago with 3-4 hours 4 out of the 7 days of a week. I still find it incredible that I could teach those kids, and good enough to be granted some prise from my professors.

----------


## Celgress

> Jason has the BEST fan-art!!!!!!!!


That he does.  :Cool:

----------


## Sergard

Red Hood: Outlaw #32 variant?

Shane Davis: _Last cover I did with #markchiarello he said he needed 3 things, penguin, a casino, and #Redhood. I sent back one rough and said I couldn't think of anything more clever. He laughed, and said he loved it._

----------


## RedBird

> Red Hood: Outlaw #32 variant?


I certainly hope so, it looks great  :Big Grin: 

Also, Sergard, thank you for doing such a wonderful job on building and maintaining the first (main) post for the appreciation thread with all the info, quotes and even updates on Jasons appearances in upcoming comics, it's fantastic.

Also, just for clarification, for the Robin Jason 'book club' are reviews and opinions meant to be posted for this upcoming Saturday, which is the 2nd of Feb I believe?

----------


## RedBird

Remember the batfamily multi part statue? Looks like Jason got his rebirth outfit in it.  :Smile:

----------


## Sergard

> I certainly hope so, it looks great 
> 
> Also, Sergard, thank you for doing such a wonderful job on building and maintaining the first (main) post for the appreciation thread with all the info, quotes and even updates on Jasons appearances in upcoming comics, it's fantastic.
> 
> Also, just for clarification, for the Robin Jason 'book club' are reviews and opinions meant to be posted for this upcoming Saturday, which is the 2nd of Feb I believe?


I hope so too. (The cover actually reminds me a little bit of one of the boss fights in "Cuphead")

Thank you  :Embarrassment:  (Although Zaresh has done more work than I did)

You can already post your review/opinion. Batman #357 is scheduled for 26th of Jan. I just hadn't had the time yet to post my own opinion on the issue.

----------


## Lirica

> Red Hood: Outlaw #32 variant?
> 
> Shane Davis: _Last cover I did with #markchiarello he said he needed 3 things, penguin, a casino, and #Redhood. I sent back one rough and said I couldn't think of anything more clever. He laughed, and said he loved it._


Looks like it to me. Matches really well with #32's regular cover!
---

On a separate note: a story recently popped up on ao3 and I think it's got an interesting start. Jim Gordon finds a revived and catatonic Jason Todd out on the streets.
death's outlet song of life by nex_et_nox

----------


## G-Potion

> Karin (and other Jason Todd artworks)


They make a good pair.

http://mayhw.tumblr.com/post/182329554336

----------


## Sergard

> On a separate note: a story recently popped up on ao3 and I think it's got an interesting start. Jim Gordon finds a revived and catatonic Jason Todd out on the streets.
> death's outlet song of life by nex_et_nox


I've seen that fanfic and just read it. The start is indeed interesting. I'm always in favor of a Jim Gordon who knows Batman's identity but who prefers to stay in denial.
And fanfics about catatonic Jason returning to the family peak my interest anyway.

----------


## Zaresh

> Red Hood: Outlaw #32 variant?
> 
> Shane Davis: _Last cover I did with #markchiarello he said he needed 3 things, penguin, a casino, and #Redhood. I sent back one rough and said I couldn't think of anything more clever. He laughed, and said he loved it._


Heh, if that's the variant, it sure is a nice coincidence that Jason is in similar situations in both covers for the #32 then. I wonder what the pitch for the variant in #33 was.




> Remember the batfamily multi part statue? Looks like Jason got his rebirth outfit in it.


Looking cool. I think I like it more than the preview pic? I think. It has been a while, but I think I like it more now.




> Thank you (Although Zaresh has done more work than I did)


Not really, @Serg. Just looking for the quotes and placing and organizing all that info is as much as I do with my lists. And then, you update the post always, every day, and make those awesome charts and the new topic for the reading club (which you also will update). I'm pretty sure you're the one who does more work  :Smile: .  
And now that I think about it, it's clear that here, we all are a very tidy bumch of fans to me.




> They make a good pair.


So many good fanarts. And I bet this is a good thing for the books. With how much interest is being showed, and many pieces are being posted, more new readers are going to be interested in buying the books, eventually.

(What the heck. I cannot post more that 6 images, INCLUDING smilies? That's a bit too much)

----------


## Sergard

> Heh, if that's the variant, it sure is a nice coincidence that Jason is in similar situations in both covers for the #32 then. I wonder what the pitch for the variant in #33 was.


I could imagine that Jason gets rid of his current costume in #33. The last time we had a variant cover with death theme was for #26. Back then Jason got his new outfit.
Further, looking at the standard cover of #33, Jason is using the mask part for his crime boss look. And judging by the solicitation, he wants people to believe that the new crime boss in town and Red Hood are two different persons. So he can't use the mask as Red Hood anymore. Maybe he goes back to the helmet and leather jacket. It would make sense because the current outfit is good for traveling (light weight,  can be turned into a "normal" outfit by removing the mask) but in Gotham you need more protection.




> Not really, @Serg. Just looking for the quotes and placing and organizing all that info is as much as I do with my lists. And then, you update the post always, every day, and make those awesome charts and the new topic for the reading club (which you also will update). I'm pretty sure you're the one who does more work .  
> And now that I think about it, it's clear that here, we all are a very tidy bunch of fans to me.


It's a lot of work to make all those fanfic recommendations and to update them. You try to stay as objective as possible and you give a good overview what people have to expect in each fanfic. That's way more work than copying some quotes. It seems we have to agree to disagree who does more work.  :Wink:  And yes, people in this thread are great. I love the positive atmosphere here. And that's the most important thing about being a fan of a character - to have fun. Having fun with other fans is even better.





> So many good fanarts. And I bet this is a good thing for the books. With how much interest is being showed, and many pieces are being posted, more new readers are going to be interested in buying the books, eventually.


I think so too. High activity in the fanart and fanfic scene is always a good indicator that a title does well and helps to attract new fans. It also shows the company what fans like about a character or which changes in story are welcomed - at least sometimes, like the upcoming change in Jason's look. On the other hand, I've seen many positive comments about Ma Gunn being Jason's grandmother and the kiss between Jason and Artemis, but there aren't any/not a lot of fanfics/fanarts that address these topics.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I could imagine that Jason gets rid of his current costume in #33. The last time we had a variant cover with death theme was for #26. Back then Jason got his new outfit.
> Further, looking at the standard cover of #33, Jason is using the mask part for his crime boss look. And judging by the solicitation, he wants people to believe that the new crime boss in town and Red Hood are two different persons. So he can't use the mask as Red Hood anymore. Maybe he goes back to the helmet and leather jacket. It would make sense because the current outfit is good for traveling (light weight,  can be turned into a "normal" outfit by removing the mask) but in Gotham you need more protection.
> 
> 
> 
> It's a lot of work to make all those fanfic recommendations and to update them. You try to stay as objective as possible and you give a good overview what people have to expect in each fanfic. That's way more work than copying some quotes. It seems we have to agree to disagree who does more work.  And yes, people in this thread are great. I love the positive atmosphere here. And that's the most important thing about being a fan of a character - to have fun. Having fun with other fans is even better.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The kiss part, well, over on AO3 there's a number of Jason/Artemis pairings now, but that's the crux of their plot. Often disregarding everything else about the characters, and thus, I avoid those. Much like most of the Justice League fanfics out there. Half are SuperWonder (a thing I never liked) and the other half are WonderBat that horrifically mangle one or both of the characters.

For Ma Gunn. Well, I guess she just isn't that well known.

----------


## Zaresh

> I could imagine that Jason gets rid of his current costume in #33. The last time we had a variant cover with death theme was for #26. Back then Jason got his new outfit.
> Further, looking at the standard cover of #33, Jason is using the mask part for his crime boss look. And judging by the solicitation, he wants people to believe that the new crime boss in town and Red Hood are two different persons. So he can't use the mask as Red Hood anymore. Maybe he goes back to the helmet and leather jacket. It would make sense because the current outfit is good for traveling (light weight,  can be turned into a "normal" outfit by removing the mask) but in Gotham you need more protection.


Actually, I think it's more like the opposite here. In the few peeks we have at interior art for the new arc, we know that Jason wears the suit without mask. My guess is that these covers with him in suit and mask is a composition middle place, that both shows his two new, separated personas to the public eye: Jason, the businessman who looks like a mafia boss on one hand, and the wild, dark Red Hood who still wears his post #26 costume on the other hand.




> I think so too. High activity in the fanart and fanfic scene is always a good indicator that a title does well and helps to attract new fans. It also shows the company what fans like about a character or which changes in story are welcomed - at least sometimes, like the upcoming change in Jason's look. On the other hand, I've seen many positive comments about Ma Gunn being Jason's grandmother and the kiss between Jason and Artemis, but there aren't any/not a lot of fanfics/fanarts that address these topics.


They will eventually warm up to the Ma Gunn grandma plot. It just needs to reach the trade readers and develop a bit more, I'm sure (people love family drama and the old hidden/unaware "prince" trope). The Artemis bit, on the other hand, will have to fight shippers and people who are against those two being together no matter if they support any other ship: I think it's going to need a lot of time and good effort to take root into the fanbase.

----------


## Arsenal

I imagine the fan base will warm up to the idea of Grandma Gunn & Jason/Artemis once/if they gain a greater presence in the book.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Jason’s ties to Ma Gunn are further explored in the upcoming arc.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Actually, I think it's more like the opposite here. In the few peeks we have at interior art for the new arc, we know that Jason wears the suit without mask. My guess is that these covers with him in suit and mask is a composition middle place, that both shows his two new, separated personas to the public eye: Jason, the businessman who looks like a mafia boss on one hand, and the wild, dark Red Hood who still wears his post #26 costume on the other hand.
> 
> 
> 
> They will eventually warm up to the Ma Gunn grandma plot. It just needs to reach the trade readers and develop a bit more, I'm sure (people love family drama and the old hidden/unaware "prince" trope). *The Artemis bit, on the other hand, will have to fight shippers and people who are against those two being together no matter if they support any other ship: I think it's going to need a lot of time and good effort to take root into the fanbase.*


Yeah, in Teen Titans (animated series), there's a lot of Red X (as Jason) with Raven and some with Starfire. In Young Justice, its usually just Jason involved with the Bat family and sometimes Artemis. In the Batman comics, well, there's a lot of independent Jason as Red Hood there. And the few ships there are either slash (hard pass for me) or with Stephanie Brown.

That's what I usually come across on fanfiction anyway. AO3, 3/4 of those stories are either Mature or Explicit with slash shipping. So, I tend to avoid that.

Only 2 fanfics come to mind that actually have the Rebirth Outlaws in a notable role. I've Got the Umbrella (Hopes for a Bastard series) and Jason: Collector of Strays.

The first one though, is one of those Jason/Raven things, but it also has a huge cast and is combination of Teen Titans, Young Justice, Super Sons, and a few other things thrown in there.

Collector of Strays kind of hints at Jason/Artemis, but its more about Jason becoming sort of a family man by first taking in a dog, and then a group of kids. With Artemis and Biz popping in later.


A slightly different one I came across had Jason, while working with Artemis and Biz, get shrunk into a kid, with his memories as an adult kind of there. No shipping, as it goes into the family dynamic aspect, with Artemis acting as a mother figure to him. And Dick as a father (no shipping of them, as they seem to tolerate one another at best in the story).

----------


## Zaresh

I'll never understand why people ship Jason with Stephanie. For what I know about Steph, they're both abrasive enough, unforgiving and too honest about other people's flaws to not being pointing out them constantly, even for hurting them when they're hurt. That is a recipe for disaster. And then Jason shares some flaws with Tim that  Steph dislikes (I think). I definitely cannot see it working.

Besides, you know, them not knowing each other, bassically.

Maybe they fit for reasons I don't know yet, I don't know.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I'll never understand why people ship Jason with Stephanie. For what I know about Steph, they're both abrasive enough, unforgiving and too honest about other people's flaws to not being pointing out them constantly, even for hurting them when they're hurt. That is a recipe for disaster. And then Jason shares some flaws with Tim that  Steph dislikes (I think). I definitely cannot see it working.
> 
> Besides, you know, them not knowing each other, bassically.
> 
> Maybe they fit for reasons I don't know yet, I don't know.


Biggest reason I've seen, is that they both come from bad backgrounds in the Narrows. Criminal fathers, druggie mothers, but then they diverge from there. 

Jason tries to steal the Batmobile wheels, while Steph spoils her father's crimes. Jason has a hard time trusting people, and himself, especially when he gets back from the dead, Steph is usually a pretty bubbly person.

What's more, Jason pre-Flashpoint never interacted with Cass. After Flashpoint, they have a few, but nothing of note. Kind of a shame, with a number of parallels between them. Especially pre-Flashpoint.

----------


## Arsenal

I’ve seen a couple Biz, Jason & Artemis fics that are set post RHATO #25.

All of them (I believe) generally involve Jason & the team completely detaching themselves from the Bat family.

----------


## Zaresh

> *Biggest reason I've seen, is that they both come from bad backgrounds in the Narrows. Criminal fathers, druggie mothers, but then they diverge from there.* 
> 
> Jason tries to steal the Batmobile wheels, while Steph spoils her father's crimes. Jason has a hard time trusting people, and himself, especially when he gets back from the dead, Steph is usually a pretty bubbly person.
> 
> What's more, Jason pre-Flashpoint never interacted with Cass. After Flashpoint, they have a few, but nothing of note. Kind of a shame, with a number of parallels between them. Especially pre-Flashpoint.


That's very... plain, and honest to god, kind of snob (I'm trying to come with a proper word in English for this; it's not really snob, but that's the best I can come with). I would take personal offence if that were the reason why.

And definitely, Steph being that rigorous about crime and grey areas is another reason why I don't see it happening at all. Being "grey" by manipulating alone is something she doesn't tolerate in Tim, even, as far as I know.

----------


## TheCape

> I’ve seen a couple Biz, Jason & Artemis fics that are set post RHATO #25.
> 
> All of them (I believe) generally involve Jason & the team completely detaching themselves from the Bat family.


There is an author in AO3 called Comicfan than have a lot of Jason/Artemis, i found enjoyable, especially with how much he/she seems to know about the DC universe in general (that's how i found that Artemis was at some point attracted to a guy called Sureshot lol).

Is really hard for me to enjoy any fanfic related to Batman or the Batfamily because they usually took the headcanons wayyyy too seriously, Dick, Jason and Tim receive the worst deal in that regard.

----------


## Zaresh

> There is an author in AO3 called Comicfan than have a lot of Jason/Artemis, i found enjoyable, especially with how much he/she seems to know about the DC universe in general (that's how i found that Artemis was at some point attracted to a guy called Sureshot lol).
> 
> Is really hard for me to enjoy any fanfic related to Batman or the Batfamily because they usually took the headcanons wayyyy too seriously, Dick, Jason and Tim receive the worst deal in that regard.


I haven't read many of their fanfics, but I did read some to know what's their work about; and by sheer numbers, I'll add their name to the recommended writers list. There aren't many who play that ship, so it's worth mentioning them, too.

----------


## TheCape

> I haven't read many of their fanfics, but I did read some to know what's their work about; and by sheer numbers, I'll add their name to the recommended writers list. There aren't many who play that ship, so it's worth mentioning them, too.


I personally would recommend this small series.

https://archiveofourown.org/series/759945

It start rigth after the Bow of Ra story arc.

----------


## Celgress

> 


LMAO, priceless  :Big Grin:

----------


## Jackalope89

> That's very... plain, and honest to god, kind of snob (I'm trying to come with a proper word in English for this; it's not really snob, but that's the best I can come with). I would take personal offence if that were the reason why.
> 
> And definitely, Steph being that rigorous about crime and grey areas is another reason why I don't see it happening at all. Being "grey" by manipulating alone is something she doesn't tolerate in Tim, even, as far as I know.


Eh. Not really a fan of it myself, just what other people have used to justify it when I asked them. I don't mind seeing them interact, and Jason interact with Cass, but I just can't wrap my head around Jason and Steph together.




> There is an author in AO3 called Comicfan than have a lot of Jason/Artemis, i found enjoyable, especially with how much he/she seems to know about the DC universe in general (that's how i found that Artemis was at some point attracted to a guy called Sureshot lol).
> 
> Is really hard for me to enjoy any fanfic related to Batman or the Batfamily because they usually took the headcanons wayyyy too seriously, Dick, Jason and Tim receive the worst deal in that regard.


I checked out some of their work. Hasn't been updated in a while (sadly), but it is written pretty well.

----------


## Aahz

> Biggest reason I've seen, is that they both come from bad backgrounds in the Narrows. Criminal fathers, druggie mothers, but then they diverge from there.


Steph is not from the Narrows or crime alley, she lived in in the suburbs (and there area didn't looked that bad). 
The biggest reason for me against this ship is, that Steph is Tims main love interest.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Steph is not from the Narrows or crime alley, she lived in in the suburbs (and there area didn't looked that bad). 
> The biggest reason for me against this ship is, that Steph is Tims main love interest.


Most of those take place pre-Flashpoint when Steph is running around as Batgirl, and is just friends with Tim.

Just the setup those authors use, not me.

----------


## Zaresh

> Steph is not from the Narrows or crime alley, she lived in in the suburbs (and there area didn't looked that bad). 
> The biggest reason for me against this ship is, that Steph is Tims main love interest.


Most fanfics put her in the Narrows, but I honestly don't know where she's from. Maybe that's where the idea comes from (I've read little from her in the comic tbh. Little from Robin, little from Batgirl and Tec, and that's all). I do know that Duke is from there, or at least, I recall reading that in an actual comic issue.

----------


## Aahz

> Most of those take place pre-Flashpoint when Steph is running around as Batgirl, and is just friends with Tim.


Which would make her still his-ex...

Btw. there seems to be also ships with him and Barbara seem almost as comon on AO3. 

But all kinds slash parings  are anyway way more common.

----------


## Aahz

> Most fanfics put her in the Narrows, but I honestly don't know where she's from. Maybe that's where the idea comes from (I've read little from her in the comic tbh. Little from Robin, little from Batgirl and Tec, and that's all).


I have ayway often the impression that may fanfic writers, read more fanfics than actual comics...

----------


## Zaresh

Could be. I know about some who do; I also know about some others that don't, and do a lot of reading, even if they go with their headcanons in the end. It's "fan" fiction, and that work implies a lot. But there are also dilligent fanfic writers, who do their homework even if, in the end, they change things (they often do so in a way it doesn't hurt much).

Fanfiction is usually hold against writers as something of low quality, or less elaborated; but it doesn't have to be. At all. Neil Gaiman has gone in Twitter about how he won a very big award with what's basicaly fanfiction, for example. And he does his homework, as far as I know.

----------


## Aahz

> Could be. I know about some who do; I also know about some others that don't, and do a lot of reading, even if they go with their headcanons in the end. It's "fan" fiction, and that work implies a lot. But there are also dilligent fanfic writers, who do their homework even if, in the end, they change things (they often do so in a way it doesn't hurt much).
> 
> Fanfiction is usually hold against writers as something of low quality, or less elaborated; but it doesn't have to be. At all. Neil Gaiman has gone in Twitter about how he won a very big award with what's basicaly fanfiction, for example. And he does his homework, as far as I know.


There are some really good writers, but they are a minority.

But according to "Sturgeon's law"  that's to expect.

----------


## Sergard

Pete Woods: _Todays desk shot. Readers arent the only ones happy about the return on Jasons hair._

----------


## Arsenal

Wonder who this mystery character is gonna be.

----------


## G-Potion

> Pete Woods: _Today’s desk shot. Readers aren’t the only ones happy about the return on Jason’s hair._


Wow he looks good like this. Is that a bow tie? Is he going to have more than one suit as well?

----------


## Sergard

Teen Titans Annual #1 preview: https://www.cbr.com/teen-titans-annual-1-preview/
Jason is in it. And Roy's death is mentioned.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Jason is being written much more sympathetically than I expected given the tone of the solicits, a marked improvement over the last few times he guest appeared in other books.

And as much as I love how important Roy has become to Jason's current characterization, there's something unsettling about it. Like Jason is this close to snapping.

----------


## Arsenal

> Jason is being written much more sympathetically than I expected given the tone of the solicits, a marked improvement over the last few times he guest appeared in other books.
> 
> And as much as I love how important Roy has become to Jason's current characterization, there's something unsettling about it. Like Jason is this close to snapping.


Really? I wasn’t getting that kind of vibe from the preview.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I mean in general, not in the annual in specific.

----------


## okiedokiewo

> Wow he looks good like this. Is that a bow tie? Is he going to have more than one suit as well?


This face is better than how he usually draws him. I hope it continues.

----------


## G-Potion

> This face is better than how he usually draws him. I hope it continues.


Yeah I hope it's an intentional change too. Jason actually looks his age here.

----------


## Sergard

Did Woods' style change a little bit or is it just the hair that makes Jason look his age?
I like Jason's facial expression. He looks so calm and relaxed, maybe a little tired.

----------


## Zaresh

> This face is better than how he usually draws him. I hope it continues.





> Yeah I hope it's an intentional change too. Jason actually looks his age here.





> Did Woods' style change a little bit or is it just the hair that makes Jason look his age?
> I like Jason's facial expression. He looks so calm and relaxed, maybe a little tired.


Maybe. I'm guessing it's more a thing that comes from the circumstances and mood he is in, rather than Woods' art style; but there is definitely a softer touch in the style.

It helps, as well, that Jason is fully embracing the Byronic Hero nature he already had. So far, he just lacks the romantic (as in, love; not the movement) note.

----------


## Sergard

> It helps, as well, that Jason is fully embracing the Byronic Hero nature he already had. So far, he just lacks the romantic (as in, love; not the movement) note.


Seems like a lot of my favorite characters are Byronic Heroes. Seto Kaiba from Yu-Gi-Oh!, Rika from Digimon Tamers (although my favorite Digimon character is still Ken from season 2), Vegeta from DBZ, Sesshomaru from Inu Yasha and Zuko from Avatar the last airbender are all on the list of examples.

----------


## Sergard

New on Twitter (#RedHood and/or #JasonTodd)

Cute Wards (@UluzCutieswards)



Also Cute Wards (@UluzCutieswards)



@chrome_se7en

----------


## Zaresh

> Seems like a lot of my favorite characters are Byronic Heroes. Seto Kaiba from Yu-Gi-Oh!, Rika from Digimon Tamers (although my favorite Digimon character is still Ken from season 2), Vegeta from DBZ, Sesshomaru from Inu Yasha and Zuko from Avatar the last airbender are all on the list of examples.


The lists of the characters are open to discussion, but the description of the trope is fine, as far as I've seem. It lacks the character being either an aristocrat, someone from an old rich fortune or a self-made upper member of society (who may or may not have fallen in misfortune or been banished or disowned). But overal, it's spot on, I would say.

They help in createing very entertaining stories. It's a popular kind of character, and when it's done good, it can give really good stories (and really boring melodrama when not). I love that trope too, that's why one of the MCs of the novella (not the fanfic) I'm writing is a bit of a byronic hero (he's also the narrator's voice: it's a lot of fun). But they need some bright in them too, something that makes the reader hope for something better in all the conflict that surround them, even if it's a tiny bit. Otherwise, you fall into such an angst feast that, unless you love that very teeny view of the world that romantices suffering, it tends to tire the reader. I hope I do well with my attempt.

Or, well, that's my opinion, how I see it.

Off topic up to eleven, but I love discussing these matters. Sorry, guys.

Edit: cute, cute chibis :3

----------


## G-Potion

> New on Twitter (#RedHood and/or #JasonTodd)


I think that's one of the coolest hair for Jason that I've seen. Both official art and fanart.

----------


## Sergard

> Teen Titans Annual #1 preview: https://www.cbr.com/teen-titans-annual-1-preview/
> Jason is in it. And Roy's death is mentioned.


Just some observations so far:

_First page_

Jason mentions later (third page)  Roy's death and that Damian is too late, Bruce already told him. So the scene with Jason in TT #22 takes place before RHatO #27 but after RHatO #26 because Jason already has his new costume.
TT Annual #1 starts with Jason getting out of an old car that suspiciously looks like the old pickup truck from RHatO #30. AND Jason is in Texas (returning from Mexico?). So I don't think it's to far-fetched to assume that the Annual takes place between RH:O #30/#31 and the new story arc starting in #32.

So the big question that immediately comes to mind is: Where the hell is Dog? Obviously the TT creative team knows enough to A) include the truck and B) Jason is wearing the red trucker hat (which he has started wearing in #28 after hearing in #27 that Roy is dead). So they probably know about Dog too, or?

I'm a little surprised that Damian still considers himself an only child. At least Dick should have a brother status, or did he lose Damian's love and respect in Justice League: No Justice, like Bruce did?
And what does "And they all seem to end up strangely fascinated with me." even mean. I haven't read enough about Damian to really know his character but I remember that Damian challenged the other three ex-boy wonders, proclaiming that he would beat them in a discipline that they considered their strong point and then he would take a victory prize from their personal stuff. Or? Seems like the fascination goes the other way around too.

_second page_

Okay, now I'm nitpicky but I would have prefered it if the colors in the "Robin vs. Robin" were reversed so that the red "Robin" is above Jason's head.
But I like that there is a glimpse of Jason's and Damian's costume underneath their street clothes.
I wonder what Jason is drinking. Could be alcohol. On the other hand beer bottles are normally brown, or? And I don't like the idea of Jason drinking after RHatO stated that Jason is a lightweight. And Roy is dead. So starting to drink alcohol after a friend with a drinking problem died is a little ... I don't know.
Jason looks very tired. That rather explains why he didn't notice Damian approaching.
It's a little strange to see Damian wearing a red hoodie and sitting next to Red Hood who only wears a red trucker hat. I don't know if there is a meaning behind that. But thinking about it makes my head hurt.
That's not the bar from Wonder Woman #52 where Artemis is searching for somebody (for a "he"). That bar is located in California. I checked. (Just in case anybody wonders like I did. There are A LOT of bar fights in DC comics.)

_third page_

Jason mentions for the first time that there is a chance that he won't stay as passive about Roy's death in Sanctuary as it looked like in RHatO #27. Although people already speculated back then that Jason could only be acting so calm in front of Bruce. And he probably was in the denial phase that lasted the whole Underlife arc because Jason was distracted by the case.

There are three darts on the board and Jason takes the two yellow darts, leaving the green one behind. I interpret that as Jason inviting Damian to a game of darts. In this panel he probably still thinks that Damian wants to talk about Roy like Kate did.

_fourth page_

I like how the artist subtly delivers the message that Jason is a strong opponent even if he looks exhausted. He perfectly throws the first dart with his left hand, relaxed posture, maybe not even really looking at the board. The second dart is thrown with the right hand. But I think it was already known that he's ambidextrous. At least when it comes to weapons.

(I'm _so_ close to making a thigh joke.)

_fifth page_
In Jason's defense: I'm pretty sure that he didn't expect Damian to attack him.
That dart wound is going to hurt like a b*tch.

----------


## Aahz

I think a fight between Jason and Damain should basically go like this:

----------


## Arsenal

I figure Jason’s change in stance is just a result of him being frustrated with the big 3/Bruce’s lack of progress.

----------


## Zaresh

> Just some observations so far:
> 
> _First page_
> 
> Jason mentions later (third page)  Roy's death and that Damian is too late, Bruce already told him. So the scene with Jason in TT #22 takes place before RHatO #27 but after RHatO #26 because Jason already has his new costume.
> *TT Annual #1 starts with Jason getting out of an old car that suspiciously looks like the old pickup truck from RHatO #30. AND Jason is in Texas (returning from Mexico?). So I don't think it's to far-fetched to assume that the Annual takes place between RH:O #30/#31 and the new story arc starting in #32.*
> 
> So the big question that immediately comes to mind is: Where the hell is Dog? Obviously the TT creative team knows enough to A) include the truck and B) Jason is wearing the red trucker hat (which he has started wearing in #28 after hearing in #27 that Roy is dead). So they probably know about Dog too, or?


I think this issue may be before #30 too, and the car may be different. Besides, I don't think the writer in TT was aware of the Dog at the time this issue was scripted. It surprises me that he places Jason in Texas, so there may be a certain degree of communication between both writers. But I doubt to the point of mentioning "and then Jason finds a dog in Mexico". There is the possibility, too that Dog's owner is either Bunker or Solitary. I think the important details to note here about Jason is that he's ragged and seems to be worn out, and that, as @Dark_T noted, he seems a bit on edge because Roy's death (Lobdell pointed towards Jason feeling a bit unsatisfied with solving the case in #30, I think. It was a slightly ambiguous, short comment, but I thought he may be feeling a bit of a vacuum because of it).

As for Damian, I don't know. Maybe he's just being a little overdramatic (it runs in the family). Dicks is a bit more like a father than a brother, I would say. He never has shown that he considered neither of the other adopted / ward kids his family, either. And the other part about them being fascinated with him, that may be his ego speaking, thinking that they attack him because he's just that especial (when he's the one that tends to pick on others, as far as I've seen), I don't know.

And yeah, definitely, he wasn't expecting Damian to attack him. He seemed suspicious at some point (like he couldn't figure out what Damian wanted for him and started to run scenarios in his head), but that could be just the art.

Edit: XDDDDDD (after watching @Aahz video). Unfortunately, iirc, canon so far says otherwise, as unrealistic as it may be.

----------


## Sergard

@yoru_ten_



@qingmeijun

----------


## redmax99

> As for Damian, I don't know. Maybe he's just being a little overdramatic (it runs in the family). Dicks is a bit more like a father than a brother, I would say. He never has shown that he considered neither of the other adopted / ward kids his family, either. And the other part about them being fascinated with him, that may be his ego speaking, thinking that they attack him because he's just that especial (when he's the one that tends to pick on others, as far as I've seen), I don't know.
> 
> And yeah, definitely, he wasn't expecting Damian to attack him. He seemed suspicious at some point (like he couldn't figure out what Damian wanted for him and started to run scenarios in his head), but that could be just the art.
> 
> Edit: XDDDDDD (after watching @Aahz video). Unfortunately, iirc, canon so far says otherwise, as unrealistic as it may be.


Damian consider jason and tim his brothers it the reason he doesn't want to believe jason could betray him like this

----------


## Zaresh

> Damian consider jason and tim his brothers it the reason he doesn't want to believe jason could betray him like this


Where? As far as I've read, he never has stated this. Not for those two. I'm curious.

I mean it. I've read Damian partially, mostly when he shows up in other books, or pre-FP (and post in the main batbooks; but not his books).

----------


## Arsenal

In the last Teen Titans issue it’s hevaily implied Damian had some ulterior motive for working with Jason (a positive one). Given the context of the scene, it seems reasonable to assume Jason is more important to him than he’s willing to admit.

----------


## TheCape

> Where? As far as I've read, he never has stated this. Not for those two. I'm curious.
> 
> I mean it. I've read Damian partially, mostly when he shows up in other books, or pre-FP (and post in the main batbooks; but not his books).


Outside of Dick and Steph (Pre-Flashpoint only), Damian isn't very close to any of the Robins or the rest of the batfamily. I always thought that his relationship with Jason in the current TT was mostly proffesional because of Jason knowledge of the criminal underworld

----------


## Zaresh

> Outside of Dick and Steph (Pre-Flashpoint only), Damian isn't very close to any of the Robins or the rest of the batfamily. I always thought that his relationship with Jason in the current TT was mostly proffesional because of Jason knowledge of the criminal underworld


That was my impression too. But then, the most Damian-centered book I've read is Super Sons, and not the whole book (yet), and some of the Tomasi Batman run. That's why I was asking.




> In the last Teen Titans issue it’s hevaily implied Damian had some ulterior motive for working with Jason (a positive one). Given the context of the scene, it seems reasonable to assume Jason is more important to him than he’s willing to admit.


I've read the last TT issue (curiosity won) and honestly, I didn't feel like he considered Jason more than an ally and another adult that has betrayed him. But then again, I don't know the character that well. He went to Jason because he could understand his motivations and ways, and because he's feeling supportless, is my guess. I don't see him bonding with Jason for a familial bond, but maybe I'm wrong and he says something in the annual this week.

----------


## TheCape

> That was my impression too. But then, the most Damian-centered book I've read is Super Sons, and not the whole book (yet), and some of the Tomasi Batman run. That's why I was asking.
> 
> I read the last TT issue and honestly, I didn't feel like he considered Jason more than an ally and another adult that has betrayed him. But then again, I don't know the character that well.


I feel the same as you. From my point of view Damian see Jason, Tim and Barbara as simply competent allies that he respect but he isn't particurlary close too. None of his montly handlers has make an attemp to change that.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Outside of Dick and Steph (Pre-Flashpoint only), Damian isn't very close to any of the Robins or the rest of the batfamily. I always thought that his relationship with Jason in the current TT was mostly proffesional because of Jason knowledge of the criminal underworld


Haven't read it myself, but Damian and Jason did work together during Batman Inc. With Jason disguised as Wingman. The two worked fairly well together during the time.

----------


## redmax99

> Where? As far as I've read, he never has stated this. Not for those two. I'm curious.
> 
> I mean it. I've read Damian partially, mostly when he shows up in other books, or pre-FP (and post in the main batbooks; but not his books).


it not stated out loud that he thinks their brothers  or even said, in robin war jason was thinking tim help dick set them up while Tim protesting damian joins in to tell jason he's red hood and he's robin they'll never turn on their own. following tim death in other books he was in you could tell damian was missing him heck the only way he found out he could be Slade's was because he was going through tim stuff looking for keepsakes. damian never going to say out loud he thinks jason or tim are his brothers but theirs a reason why damian is having such a hard time believing jason would turn on him.

----------


## TheCape

> Haven't read it myself, but Damian and Jason did work together during Batman Inc. With Jason disguised as Wingman. The two worked fairly well together during the time.


Working together doesn't equal a friendship, again, they are allies and they respect eacth other as figthers/ninja/warriors/vigilantes. That doesn't mean that they are close.

----------


## Zaresh

> it not stated out loud that he thinks their brothers  or even said, in robin war jason was thinking tim help dick set them up while Tim protesting damian joins in to tell jason he's red hood and he's robin they'll never turn on their own. following tim death in other books he was in you could tell damian was missing him heck the only way he found out he could be Slade's was because he was going through tim stuff looking for keepsakes. damian never going to say out loud he thinks jason or tim are his brothers but theirs a reason why damian is having such a hard time believing jason would turn on him.


Doesn't seem to me like he's having a hard time believing the betrayal, though. He doesn't want to, but he believes it was Jason. It kind of was Alfred's point in the last issue.
And I get that he would not admit that out loud, but for his inner boxes, to me, it's hard to believe that he would not state it. But, eh, it's Damian, so...

On the other hand, appreciating or missing someone doesn't mean thinking of them as family. He does appreciate Tim, you can see that in the arc with future Tim more recently: he thinks highly of Tim. But I don't see him thinking about him as a brother. Like with Jason, I think it's more that he sees them as allies, competent allies, relatively trustworthy allies, than friends or family.

Which is why I was asking where he did consider them as his brothers. Because that's the most clear you can go for. With Jason, who is also a bit tsundere towards the family, at least you can see that sometimes, he slips his tongue in and out loud and almost calls or plain calls Dick his brother. He was pretty clear about Tim in the New 52 run, too. But with Damian admitting that, it all relies in how the reader understands the scene and tone. You can even see him straight implying that the only real family in the batcave was him in Detective Comics, in the meeting they had for Batwoman (but then, there it wasn't his current main writers, so it's open to discussion how in character that is).

----------


## Arsenal

For better or for worse, I imagine how Jason & Damian see each other will be made much clearer on Wednesday.

----------


## Zaresh

> For better or for worse, I imagine how Jason & Damian see each other will be made much clearer on Wednesday.


Yep, most probably. I'm honestly curious. I feel like this could be a bit of an agreement between writers, and probably something editorial supports.

----------


## G-Potion

Since Glass already referenced the family portrait, I wonder if he'll mention the Jason/Damian fight in Tec' as well.

----------


## Arsenal

> Since Glass already referenced the family portrait, I wonder if he'll mention the Jason/Damian fight in Tec' as well.


I feel like that’s all but guaranteed to come up, especially after what Alfred told Damian that Jason.

----------


## RedBird

Honestly after seeing the preview, I couldn't stop thinking about that one CollegeHumor comic strip that someone painted over with Jason and Damian. XD



I've taken the liberty of censoring the curse, just in case that goes against policy here.

----------


## Lirica

> For better or for worse, I imagine how Jason & Damian see each other will be made much clearer on Wednesday.


I hope it's at least somewhat for the better or at least to a point where bridges aren't completely burned. I like Jason interacting with other members of the bat family that isn't Bats himself.




> Honestly after seeing the preview, I couldn't stop thinking about that one CollegeHumor comic strip that someone painted over with Jason and Damian. XD
> 
> 
> 
> I've taken the liberty of censoring the curse, just in case that goes against policy here.


This got a good laugh outta me. xD

----------


## Zaresh

> Honestly after seeing the preview, I couldn't stop thinking about that one CollegeHumor comic strip that someone painted over with Jason and Damian. XD
> 
> 
> 
> I've taken the liberty of censoring the curse, just in case that goes against policy here.


I can see why.

----------


## Sergard

Besides Damian being ... Damian, one should also consider that
- he still could be somehow influenced by Djinn's magic from TT #21.
- he already feels betrayed by/lost his faith in the whole Justice league and Co. At this point he's probably more prone to think the worst of other people.
- his whole team nearly died in that explosion in TT #23/#24.
- he showed some remorse at the end of TT #25.
- Red Arrow is the team mate Damian trusts the most, and she supported the accusation that Jason betrayed them. In fact, she was ice cold about that matter and didn't like Jason's involvement from the start.

But what I take offense at is Damian believing that Jason could ever participate in killing kids. Further, by killing them in an explosion - with the possibility that they could be buried alive.

----------


## Zaresh

> Besides Damian being ... Damian, one should also consider that
> - he still could be somehow influenced by Djinn's magic from TT #21.
> - he already feels betrayed by/lost his faith in the whole Justice league and Co. At this point he's probably more prone to think the worst of other people.
> - his whole team nearly died in that explosion in TT #23/#24.
> - he showed some remorse at the end of TT #25.
> - Red Arrow is the team mate Damian trusts the most, and she supported the accusation that Jason betrayed them. In fact, she was ice cold about that matter and didn't like Jason's involvement from the start.
> 
> But what I take offense at is Damian believing that Jason could ever participate in killing kids. Further, by killing them in an explosion - with the possibility that they could be buried alive.


Maybe the writer wasn't aware of what such accusation implies.

The thing about Djinn... didn't the solicit for next month issue of TT pointed towards some shocking revelation? I remember reading somthing like that, and it could be that it's playing a role in Damian's behaviour. I dunno, it could be that, @Sergard.

----------


## Sergard

> Maybe the writer wasn't aware of what such accusation implies.
> 
> The thing about Djinn... didn't the solicit for next month issue of TT pointed towards some shocking revelation? I remember reading something like that, and it could be that it's playing a role in Damian's behaviour. I dunno, it could be that, @Sergard.


That's the solicitation text for TT #27:



> Every Teen Titan has a secret—and they all come spilling out here! As Djinn helps Robin recover from his injuries after a brutal showdown with Red Hood, she tells him all about her dark past, revealing some unsettling truths about herself. Meanwhile, Red Arrow helps Crush find a new sense of purpose, and Roundhouse reveals the tragic story of how he got his powers!


Source: DC

So yes, maybe Djinn's powers influenced Damian's behaviour. I just hope that Djinn isn't evil. I like her character a lot.

But I'm surprised that Damian has "injuries". Looking at the preview for the annual it feels more like Damian will only have some scrapes at the end.


I had such a nice theory about the dart wound but that theory was quickly refuted.
In Detective Comics #968 Future Tim states that Jason has some untreated injury in his hip joint that was caused before his resurrection. And I call that a big BS because the Lazarus pit would have healed that damage. So back then, my theory was that Future Jason had lied to Tim about that injury and that in truth it had been caused much later.
And now we have Damian stabbing Jason with a dart in the hip. But sadly it's the wrong side.

----------


## Fergus

> Besides Damian being ... Damian, one should also consider that
> - he still could be somehow influenced by Djinn's magic from TT #21.
> - he already feels betrayed by/lost his faith in the whole Justice league and Co. At this point he's probably more prone to think the worst of other people.
> - his whole team nearly died in that explosion in TT #23/#24.
> - he showed some remorse at the end of TT #25.
> - Red Arrow is the team mate Damian trusts the most, and she supported the accusation that Jason betrayed them. In fact, she was ice cold about that matter and didn't like Jason's involvement from the start.
> 
> But what I take offense at is Damian believing that Jason could ever participate in killing kids. Further, by killing them in an explosion - with the possibility that they could be buried alive.


Well Jason did shoot 10 year old Damian intending to kill him which is why Damian now has a replacement spine. Jason also tried to explode teenage Tim so ....... Though Jason has also saved Damian multiple times. I guess it's hard to forget the one time someone paralysed you.

----------


## dietrich

> That was my impression too. But then, the most Damian-centered book I've read is Super Sons, and not the whole book (yet), and some of the Tomasi Batman run. That's why I was asking.
> 
> 
> 
> I've read the last TT issue (curiosity won) and honestly, I didn't feel like he considered Jason more than an ally and another adult that has betrayed him. But then again, I don't know the character that well. He went to Jason because he could understand his motivations and ways, and because he's feeling supportless, is my guess. I don't see him bonding with Jason for a familial bond, but maybe I'm wrong and he says something in the annual this week.


Jason has always reached out to Damian and always an ally. I believe that Damian does view him as a brother or at least more than an mere ally. Jason has been there for him in a capacity that makes him more than an ally. Tim is an ally Jason is someone who has been there when he didn't have to
The thing is with writers never exploring their relationships we never get a proper dynamic.

----------


## Sergard

That's too cute:

@kani_4san



Also @kani_4san



@circus_0625

----------


## Aahz

> Well Jason did shoot 10 year old Damian intending to kill him which is why Damian now has a replacement spine.


I don't think that these stories are still canon, and I'm pretty sure that Flamingo was the one who fired the shot that destroyed Damian's spine.

----------


## Fergus

> I don't think that these stories are still canon, and I'm pretty sure that Flamingo was the one who fired the shot that destroyed Damian's spine.


They are canon. Nightwing must die remember.

----------


## Aahz

> They are canon. Nightwing must die remember.


Dick as Batman with Damian as Robin is canon in broad strokes, but Jasons part in that story and in BftC has not really been referenced post flashpoint.

----------


## Arsenal

Hopefully Glass will help clear up which Jason & Damian interactions are canon and which aren’t.

----------


## dietrich

> Hopefully Glass will help clear up which Jason & Damian interactions are canon and which aren’t.


Hope so. I'm not happy that we only get the fighting and not the working together. All we had was that one page. It feels like such a wasted opportunity.

----------


## Arsenal

> Hope so. I'm not happy that we only get the fighting and not the working together. All we had was that one page. It feels like such a wasted opportunity.


Agreed. I’m hoping we’ll atleast get some flashbacks to help flesh it out some.

----------


## Sergard

New fanart by JJMK. It's a little slash-y but Jason looks too good in his new outfit to not share it.

----------


## Sergard

@hian0508



@hh_dingdong



Also @hh_dingdong

----------


## G-Potion

All of them have awesome hair.   :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Sergard

@TimeFloW19

Jason & Artemis



Jason & Conner



(There is also a fanart of Jon, Damian and Goliath following the link at the beginning of the post)

----------


## Sergard

DC has changed the cover of RH:O #31. Here's the new one: 



For comparison, here's the old one:

----------


## G-Potion

Huh, this is a total different design. The old cover looks good, but I guess the new one is more exciting because you get to see Red Hood and Wingman teaming up. Also I dig the text.

----------


## Zaresh

> Huh, this is a total different design. The old cover looks good, but I guess the new one is more exciting because you get to see Red Hood and Wingman teaming up. Also I dig the text.


It's honestly fun.
I mean, for me. I guess they will not kill them in the interiors? Ha ha, funny.

----------


## Sergard

I wonder how long DC will continue to put the crossed out bat symbol on the cover (but to have the bat symbol intact in the title).

The new cover reminds me a little bit of the RHatO #23 cover.

----------


## adrikito

For the people who miss one bizarro in their lifes:

https://www.newsarama.com/43660-sala...h-bizarro.html




> New fanart by JJMK. It's a little slash-y but Jason looks too good in his new outfit to not share it.


Excellent fanart.

----------


## adrikito

> New on Twitter (#RedHood and/or #JasonTodd)
> 
> Cute Wards (@UluzCutieswards)


I saw this artist before(the designs are the proof).. So, he continues with this kind of fanarts..

----------


## Zaresh

> For the people who miss one bizarro in their lifes:
> 
> https://www.newsarama.com/43660-sala...h-bizarro.html


Cool. I remember reading something from him (I cannot remember what, but I remember his name, so there is that) and liking it a lot (I remember liking it too). I'll look for it.

And again, sooo many fanarts, *and so good*. I would feel lazy for not working on my own, but, I have so much to do this week (I had an actual paid commission, surprisingly. And tests to do, and classes, and a friend comes to visit from far, and... Yeah, I guess I'm not "fanarting" much this week).

----------


## adrikito

The outlaws:

red hood outlaws bizarro artemis.jpg

----------


## oasis1313

> The outlaws:
> 
> red hood outlaws bizarro artemis.jpg


Awwww,  I love this one!

----------


## G-Potion

> The outlaws:
> 
> red hood outlaws bizarro artemis.jpg


Ha! I like this!  :Big Grin:

----------


## G-Potion

> I have so much to do this week (I had an actual paid commision, surprisingly. And tests to do, and classes, and a friend comes to visit from far, and... Yeah, I guess I'm not "fanarting" much this week).


If you don't mind sharing, what kind of commission you're working on?

----------


## Jackalope89

> The outlaws:
> 
> red hood outlaws bizarro artemis.jpg


That's awesome and adorable at the same time!

----------


## Zaresh

> If you don't mind sharing, what kind of commission you're working on?


A friend who's a writer asked me to paint him a picture for the promotion of his latest book after seeing this (warning: awful quality of the shot). I'll be paid, and he's a very good friend; so I'm very excited, but also very nervious, because I want to do something very good for him. I have to read the book, and show him a few sketchs. He trusts me, but he's also very serious, because it's an actual deal, serious business quite literaly.

----------


## adrikito

> That's awesome and adorable at the same time!


Is from that user that made the genderbender robins.. 

Now I remember why I considered them familiar. I forgot that he is one robinxsuperboy fan..  :Frown:

----------


## Darkcrusade25

*spoilers:*
 Jason won the fight against Damian in the TT Annual 2. Jason pleaded with Damian to not fight but Damian tried to lock him in his prison. Jason beat him effortlessly.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> DC has changed the cover of RH:O #31. Here's the new one: 
> 
> 
> 
> For comparison, here's the old one:


Interestingly, Roy is listed as one of the protagonists at DC's site

----------


## G-Potion

> *spoilers:*
>  Jason won the fight against Damian in the TT Annual 2. Jason pleaded with Damian to not fight but Damian tried to lock him in his prison. Jason beat him effortlessly.
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
As it should be, just based on experience and physical advantages alone. But nice of DC to remember it this time. And darn Glass had the box trigger Jason without telling us what's in it but apparently Bruce knows. I wonder if Lobdell will pick up on this later. Anyway, I don't like Jason beating up kids but considering that Damian was no less violent and Jason was on the defense the whole time until he's triggered by the box (and he's also bottling up a lot with Roy's death). I can accept this for what it is. 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Sergard

> *spoilers:*
>  Jason won the fight against Damian in the TT Annual 2. Jason pleaded with Damian to not fight but Damian tried to lock him in his prison. Jason beat him effortlessly.
> *end of spoilers*


I just read the annual too.

*spoilers:*
The fight starts one-sided with Damian landing some punches and kicks while accusing Jason of betraying the Teen Titans. And when Jason still objects, Damian shows him the mysterious box we've seen in Teen Titans #26. But he DOES NOT open it. We actually never learn what is in it. We only have Jason's statement: "What's in there ... it's my business. It's bigger than this whole crusade. Even Batman wouldn't stoop this low." But I don't know if the last sentence aims at Damian using the box as threat or at the content being something that proves that Jason did something very, very bad.

Jason gets pissed off at Damian and starts fighting back. Again, the fight is one-sided with Damian being the only one who takes damage. Defeated, Damian opens his uniform and shows that there is a bomb threatening that he'll activate it (The bomb display shows the number 1381. Is that some reference?). Jason calls bluff and takes the mystery box. He tells Damian that he and his team shouldn't come looking for Jason otherwise he'll put them in the ground. Jason leaves.

The part ends with a panel of The Other's secret base. There are a lot of monitors showing the faces of all the Teen Titans and Jason.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## G-Potion

> I just read the annual too.
> 
> *spoilers:*
> The fight starts one-sided with Damian landing some punches and kicks while accusing Jason of betraying the Teen Titans. And when Jason still objects, Damian shows him the mysterious box we've seen in Teen Titans #26. But he DOES NOT open it. We actually never learn what is in it. We only have Jason's statement: "What's in there ... it's my business. It's bigger than this whole crusade. Even Batman wouldn't stoop this low." *But I don't know if the last sentence aims at Damian using the box as threat or at the content being something that proves that Jason did something very, very bad.*
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
I'm curious as well. Did Damian even know about the content of the box or he just assumed that it's something guaranteed to take down Jason? If the latter case why would Bruce even need it because Jason can be taken down by normal means. Why is it more important than the whole crusade? Arggg I'm lost. 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Sergard

> *spoilers:*
> I'm curious as well. Did Damian even know about the content of the box or he just assumed that it's something guaranteed to take down Jason? If the latter case why would Bruce even need it because Jason can be taken down by normal means. Why is it more important than the whole crusade? Arggg I'm lost. 
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
Bruce didn't have the box. Alfred had it. It's stated in TT #26 when Alfred says "I do not appreciate you going through my things." And since Alfred had it, I wouldn't be surprised if Jason asked him to keep the box somewhere safe. I'm more surprised that Damian knew that the box exists.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Sergard

On another subject: Do you think that
*spoilers:*
Leslie's death
*end of spoilers*
will be mentioned in RH:O?

----------


## RedBird

> *spoilers:*
>  Anyway, I don't like Jason beating up kids but considering that Damian was no less violent and Jason was on the defense the whole time until he's triggered by the box (and he's also bottling up a lot with Roy's death). I can accept this for what it is. 
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*

In all fairness, this situation began with Damian stabbing Jason, accusing him of trying to kill him and the TT, Jason denies the claims, tries to open a dialogue with Damian instead to think more logically, Damian doesn't listen or doesn't want to listen at this point, Jason tries to reason with him to _stop_ while it's not too late, all the while he tries to avoid Damians attacks. THEN Damian electrocutes Jason and threatens him with not only whatever is clearly so important in that secret box, but also says that he wants Jason to confess on the spot before he too is to be thrown into that 'prison'.

If this was something more one sided like with Bruce in issue #25 rhato, with no reasoning from the attacker, no outward provocation from the victim and a straight up BEAT DOWN till you are unconscious and drag your body....THING. I might be condemning the writing for Jasons behavior here, but this beat down came with a lot of on-the-spot provocation from Damian as well as several opportunities to talk and reason that just weren't taken upon. Besides, even after Jason is satisfied Damian won't attack anymore, the kid still has the gall to open his shirt and threaten him with a bomb this time. I think stubbornness is defiantly a trait these brothers share. XD

If it weren't for the sad context of the end of their partnership, I thought this experience was similar to Nightwing new52 issue #30 where Bruce and Dick brutally thrash each other as part of a bonding experience.  :Big Grin:  I joke I joke


All in all, I said it in the beginning, I'm just sad that there wasn't any proper bonding between these two, they really could make a great team if SOMEONE at DC would let them. I'm surprised that Jason didn't come off as horrible as I initially thought he would when these solicits indicated his betrayal, instead, Glass seems to be setting this whole thing up as a learning experience for Damian with that whole 'lost child' monologue, I just hope Glass doesn't swing the pendulum too far into making Damians behavior completely nonsensical for the sake of it. Even negative character development is still _development_ if the context and circumstances by which the character falls into a more negative mindset all correlate into an understandable narrative pathway, I'm a sucker for good angst and inner conflict and so far in the TT series, outside of _maybe_ the questionable prison, Damians emotions and behavior seems kinda understandable in these dark DC times.

When it comes to Glass writing Jason, once again I'm surprised by the more sympathetic angle here. I mean it's clear Jason is not even emotionally stable at the moment and is still mourning, but if THIS is supposedly 'Jason Unhinged' from Glass, it's a far cry from the post crisis 'Jason unhinged' nonsense, I tell ya what. 

The only really questionable line from Jason to me was at the end, where he states that if the TT/Damian try to come for him, then he threatens to 'put you all in the ground for him.' First of all, that's a bit of a yikes threat, bit much there, though admittedly if this line is connected to Jasons instability at the moment then that leads me to my second point. Who's *him*? My mind went to Bruce first, but considering this comic opens with Jason clearly mourning, is 'him' Roy? Is he threatening Damian not to get in his way since Jason is currently fulfilling his and Roy's mission?

*end of spoilers*

----------


## okiedokiewo

> *spoilers:*
> All in all, I said it in the beginning, I'm just sad that there wasn't any proper bonding between these two, they really could make a great team if SOMEONE at DC would let them. I'm surprised that Jason didn't come off as horrible as I initially thought he would when these solicits indicated his betrayal, instead, Glass seems to be setting this whole thing up as a learning experience for Damian with that whole 'lost child' monologue, I just hope Glass doesn't swing the pendulum too far into making Damians behavior completely nonsensical for the sake of it. Even negative character development is still _development_ if the context and circumstances by which the character falls into a more negative mindset all correlate into an understandable narrative pathway, I'm a sucker for good angst and inner conflict and so far in the TT series, outside of _maybe_ the questionable prison, Damians emotions and behavior seems kinda understandable in these dark DC times.
> 
> When it comes to Glass writing Jason, once again I'm surprised by the more sympathetic angle here. I mean it's clear Jason is not even emotionally stable at the moment and is still mourning, but if THIS is supposedly 'Jason Unhinged' from Glass, it's a far cry from the post crisis 'Jason unhinged' nonsense, I tell ya what. 
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
I definitely agree that we should have actually SEEN them working together, not just some lip service about it. They're probably my two favorite Robins, and I also think they have a lot of potential together, so that's a disappointment. It also would have made Damian's belief that Jason betrayed him more effective.

That said, I thought they were both written fairly here, which is not always the case, especially when it comes to Jason in someone else's book.

I do feel sorry for Damian. He is going through a lot right now.

Of course, Jason is, too, but this book is not about him.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## RedBird

> *spoilers:*
> I definitely agree that we should have actually SEEN them working together, not just some lip service about it. They're probably my two favorite Robins, and I also think they have a lot of potential together, so that's a disappointment. It also would have made Damian's belief that Jason betrayed him more effective.
> 
> That said, I thought they were both written fairly here, which is not always the case, especially when it comes to Jason in someone else's book.
> 
> I do feel sorry for Damian. He is going through a lot right now.
> 
> Of course, Jason is, too, but this book is not about him.
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
Exactly, both of their emotional outbursts make sense with one affecting the other, and even though this situation _technically_ places Damian in the wrong when he accuses Jason, thereby justifying Jason's returned anger towards Damian, you can't forget that Damian is also doing this under the impression that he has been betrayed and nearly killed by his brother/mentor.

In reading the last TT issue, you kinda get the impression that Damian somewhat expected the partnership to fail inevitably but had _hoped_ otherwise? Considering the kids dad and other brother is no where to be found anymore, the sadness from another lost connection seems to put his misplaced anger into perspective. And with Jason, the fact that he initially assumed that Damian tracked him down only with the good intention of informing him about Roy's demise shows that he never expected any ill intent or malice whatsoever from Damian and instead thought that the kid just wanted to help. Just a sad situation overall.

Damn no one ever listens to Alfred do they? Just a quick text would have solved everything XD

*end of spoilers*

----------


## Arsenal

Maybe the confrontation with Damian and the ... souvenir he picked up play a part in Jason’s return to Gotham after RHO: 31

----------


## RedBird

> Maybe the confrontation with Damian and the ... souvenir he picked up play a part in Jason’s return to Gotham after RHO: 31


Maybe, if Lobdell actually makes a mention of the incident or the souvenir, then this annual would help to serve both Damians _and_ Jasons narrative and some of the reasoning leading up to their choices/paths.

----------


## RedBird

neukgol

----------


## Arsenal

I just realized nobody bothered to tell Jason about Dick getting shot.

----------


## Zaresh

Ok, so a case of "bullying the hurt dragon". I think I can live with that: I was expecting worse, to be honest.




> I just realized nobody bothered to tell Jason about Dick getting shot.


Maybe they guessed that he would know about that by the news. Dick is still a public figure, right? Or maybe not, and theh just don't want to make him even more upset. I don't know. At his point, I guess the writers should have known already that Dick story would turn like it did.

----------


## G-Potion

> *spoilers:*
> Bruce didn't have the box. Alfred had it. It's stated in TT #26 when Alfred says "I do not appreciate you going through my things." And since Alfred had it, I wouldn't be surprised if Jason asked him to keep the box somewhere safe. I'm more surprised that Damian knew that the box exists.
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
Oh yeah now I remember. Somehow reading 'Bruce wouldn't stoop that low' translated into Bruce 'knowing about the box' to me. Heh.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## G-Potion

> *spoilers:*
> 
> All in all, I said it in the beginning, I'm just sad that there wasn't any proper bonding between these two, they really could make a great team if SOMEONE at DC would let them. I'm surprised that Jason didn't come off as horrible as I initially thought he would when these solicits indicated his betrayal, instead, *Glass seems to be setting this whole thing up as a learning experience for Damian with that whole 'lost child' monologue*, I just hope Glass doesn't swing the pendulum too far into making Damians behavior completely nonsensical for the sake of it. Even negative character development is still _development_ if the context and circumstances by which the character falls into a more negative mindset all correlate into an understandable narrative pathway, I'm a sucker for good angst and inner conflict and so far in the TT series, outside of _maybe_ the questionable prison, Damians emotions and behavior seems kinda understandable in these dark DC times.
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
With the way DC has put the 'only child' agenda down out throats since Rebirth, this overturn is long overdue, and I welcome it, as long as it's written with moderation of course. Now if someone can make Bruce learn the same lesson... ;p 
*end of spoilers*




> *spoilers:*
> When it comes to Glass writing Jason, once again I'm surprised by the more sympathetic angle here. I mean it's clear Jason is not even emotionally stable at the moment and is still mourning, but if THIS is supposedly 'Jason Unhinged' from Glass, it's a far cry from the post crisis 'Jason unhinged' nonsense, I tell ya what. 
> 
> The only really questionable line from Jason to me was at the end, where he states that if the TT/Damian try to come for him, then he threatens to 'put you all in the ground for him.' First of all, that's a bit of a yikes threat, bit much there, though admittedly if this line is connected to Jasons instability at the moment then that leads me to my second point. Who's *him*? My mind went to Bruce first, but considering this comic opens with Jason clearly mourning, is 'him' Roy? Is he threatening Damian not to get in his way since Jason is currently fulfilling his and Roy's mission?
> 
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
Yeah I think this is one of the rare times in his guest appearances that Jason is written as both sensible (well as much as he can be in this state) and capable. I was thinking 'for him' might imply The Other? Since according to Damian, Lady Vic was just a bait, and his target was the Teen Titans.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## G-Potion

> Ok, so a case of "bullying the hurt dragon". I think I can live with that: I was expecting worse, to be honest.


Heh I didn't know this trope has a name. It's a good name too.

----------


## Zaresh

> Heh I didn't know this trope has a name. It's a good name too.


The "hurt" part is mine, but yeah, I think that's how people call this trope  :Smile: .

----------


## G-Potion

> A friend who's a writer asked me to paint him a picture for the promotion of his latest book after seeing this (warning: awful quality of the shot). I'll be paid, and he's a very good friend; so I'm very excited, but also very nervious, because I want to do something very good for him. I have to read the book, and show him a few sketchs. He trusts me, but he's also very serious, because it's an actual deal, serious business quite literaly.


Good luck! I think that painting is very beautiful so you'll do just fine on your friend's book.  :Smile:

----------


## Sergard

> I just realized nobody bothered to tell Jason about Dick getting shot.


They probably weren't able to contact him. Otherwise Alfred would have sent him a message after TT #26 that Damian has stolen the mystery box and is coming for him.

@Zaresh: I like the "bullying the hurt dragon" phrase  :Smile:  And I wish you also good luck and a lot of fun with your commission.


I hope that the TT Annual will be mentioned in RH:O. And that Jason gets Artemis, Biz and his grandma back. It's sad to see him so alone without any emotional backup.

----------


## Zaresh

> Good luck! I think that painting is very beautiful so you'll do just fine on your friend's book.





> @Zaresh: I like the "bullying the hurt dragon" phrase  And I wish you also good luck and a lot of fun with your commission.


Thank you both! :3

----------


## Sergard

Maybe a stupid question but since when is the "Prince of Gotham" in the title gone?

----------


## Zaresh

It wasn't this morning, I think I saw it whole then.

----------


## G-Potion

Huh. Why...

----------


## Sergard

Okay, I checked a screenshot that I made yesterday of a post - and the url clearly contains the "Prince of Gotham" part. I'll write a mod.

----------


## G-Potion

https://twitter.com/kristaferanka




https://twitter.com/an_atagasu

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> *spoilers:*
> Yeah I think this is one of the rare times in his guest appearances that Jason is written as both sensible (well as much as he can be in this state) and capable. I was thinking 'for him' might imply The Other? Since according to Damian, Lady Vic was just a bait, and his target was the Teen Titans.
> *end of spoilers*


Just read the issue

*spoilers:*
and yeah, he meant The Other. Basically saying that if the TT bother him again, he will do the Other a favor and take them down (killing them?) himself.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Sergard

> Just read the issue
> 
> *spoilers:*
> and yeah, he meant The Other. Basically saying that if the TT bother him again, he will do the Other a favor and take them down (killing them?) himself.
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
An empty threat so that Damian backs off. Damian did the same with the bomb. It should be obvious that Damian had never the intention to blow himself up. But he used the bomb because he speculated that the idea of dying in an explosion (again) would scare Jason. But Jason didn't take the bait but returned the favor by scaring Damian with the idea that his whole team could die because of him. That's how you make somebody believe an empty threat.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## kaimaciel

Wow! The number of people crying out that "Jason is cancer", "Jason is abusing a young child", "Jason is a psycho", "Jason shot Damian once so he's totally evil and he tried to kill the kids" on Tumblr seriously makes me wonder if we read the same issue.

----------


## TheCape

> Wow! The number of people crying out that "Jason is cancer", "Jason is abusing a young child", "Jason is a psycho", "Jason shot Damian once so he's totally evil and he tried to kill the kids" on Tumblr seriously makes me wonder if we read the same issue.


Lol, people talk like Damian was a normal child. Honestly, what did they expect?, Damian keep acusing him and Jason tried to calm him down until he was electrocuted and had enougth, was he just supposed to let himself be beating and throw in jail for a crime that he didn't commit?.

----------


## Zaresh

> Wow! The number of people crying out that "Jason is cancer", "Jason is abusing a young child", "Jason is a psycho" on Tumblr seriously makes me wonder if we read the same issue.


As far as I have seen, some fans of Damian are a bit too extreme. And then Tumblr tends to be very radical in their opinions. I haven't read the issue yet, but for what you people say, it's not like he's beaten Damian just because: looks a lot more like he got too provoked by him when he was in a bad place, was even threatened and attacked, and the kid got a comeback in physical shape and a warning. I would say that Jason may have reacted in a disproportionate way, but I haven't read the issue, so I don't know how it really was.

As I said, you just don't bully a dragon, especially not when he's hurt.

----------


## Sergard

> Wow! The number of people crying out that "Jason is cancer", "Jason is abusing a young child", "Jason is a psycho", "Jason shot Damian once so he's totally evil and he tried to kill the kids" on Tumblr seriously makes me wonder if we read the same issue.


Let them. That are people who dislike Jason anyway. I've seen bad comments about Damian too. To each his own.

----------


## TheCape

> As far as I have seen, some fans of Damian are a bit too extreme. And then Tumblr tends to be very radical in their opinions. I haven't read the issue yet, but for what you people say, it's not like he's beaten Damian just because: looks a lot more like he got too provoked by him when he was in a bad place, was even threatened and attacked, and the kid got a comeback in physical shape and a warning. I would say that Jason may have reacted in a disproportionate way, but I haven't read the issue, so I don't know how it really was.
> 
> As I said, you just don't bully a dragon, especially not when he's hurt.


I thougth that the death threat at the end was a bit much, but he was hurt so i can understand it, probably doesn't justify it but when you are angry and sad you say stuff that you regret later.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Is also worth noting that it was the box what got Jason pissed.

Surprised that they let Glass write Jason kicking Damian's ass though, normally Jason is editorial go-to guy to get beaten on crossovers and guest appearances.

----------


## Zaresh

And I finally read it.

Maybe Jason was a bit too hard in Damian, when he was still struck by the first blow, and probably thinking about Jason's whole reaction. But then, Damian would have taken advantage at his first chance to come back, as he did, with the bomb threat, so I can see why Jason would hit hard: to deliver the message that he had the upper hand (which was also the point of his whole speech).

The threat at the end was definitely him being mad, and hurt, and yeah, was a bit to much, but also shows Damian that he won't be caught under friendly terms like this time again. So again, it has a purpose behind it.

I think Jason was in character. I cannot say the same for Damian: I get that he too is in a very bad place, but damn, he was so bratty and unwise. I don't think he has been like this in a long while.

----------


## Korath

I actually really liked the Annual. It's clearly setting things up long term. I feel really bad for Crush, because I feel that she's being played by Joystick and will stick with Djinn and Roundhouse during the th Deathstroke will come from her being mightily jealous at Damian (when I still think he's crushing on Emiko but now refuses to act on it). 

I was sad to see my two favorites Robins fighting like that, but I loved how level-headed Jason was, from beginning to end. It shows that he's really far more experienced than Damian, in real life that is, if not in pure combat skills. I felt it made Red Hood a really strong brand, to see him both dish out such pain but also display genuine sorrow for Damian's actions. 

I think he realizes perfectly that Damian is coming out of a very bad time, with him losing his trust in his father (which had been a staple of his character before, as seen in Metal) and that Dick is no more (for the time being), which leads to Damian losing it. I think both of them will have very interesting developments in the future, if Lobdell make uses of this fight.

----------


## oasis1313

> I actually really liked the Annual. It's clearly setting things up long term. I feel really bad for Crush, because I feel that she's being played by Joystick and will stick with Djinn and Roundhouse during the th Deathstroke will come from her being mightily jealous at Damian (when I still think he's crushing on Emiko but now refuses to act on it). 
> 
> I was sad to see my two favorites Robins fighting like that, but I loved how level-headed Jason was, from beginning to end. It shows that he's really far more experienced than Damian, in real life that is, if not in pure combat skills. I felt it made Red Hood a really strong brand, to see him both dish out such pain but also display genuine sorrow for Damian's actions. 
> 
> I think he realizes perfectly that Damian is coming out of a very bad time, with him losing his trust in his father (which had been a staple of his character before, as seen in Metal) and that Dick is no more (for the time being), which leads to Damian losing it. I think both of them will have very interesting developments in the future, if Lobdell make uses of this fight.


Damian has lost both his "dads"; I thought it was nice that Jason had compassion for him.

----------


## AJpyro

That annual was brutal but i liked it.

Though anyone got a clue about the box? DId I miss an outside issue?

----------


## Aahz

> Surprised that they let Glass write Jason kicking Damian's ass though, normally Jason is editorial go-to guy to get beaten on crossovers and guest appearances.


That only happens when he appears in other Batbooks (and sometimes in his own book), but not really in appearances in other books.

----------


## Sergard

> That annual was brutal but i liked it.
> 
> Though anyone got a clue about the box? Did I miss an outside issue?


The box appeared for the first time in TT #26 when Damian stole it from Alfred. Nothing is mentioned about its content there. Only that "Red Hood will no longer be a problem." with the help of the box.

----------


## AJpyro

> The box appeared for the first time in TT #26 when Damian stole it from Alfred. Nothing is mentioned about its content there. Only that "Red Hood will no longer be a problem." with the help of the box.


Interesting.

*spoilers:*
A memento from Jason's Mom?
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Arsenal

> Interesting.
> 
> *spoilers:*
> A memento from Jason's Mom?
> *end of spoilers*


I considered that but I couldn't come up with a reason why Alfred would have it, why it would be stashed away in a bat-box and why Damian thought it would be enough to put Jason down.

----------


## Sergard

> Interesting.
> 
> *spoilers:*
> A memento from Jason's Mom?
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
My guess at least would be that in the box is something very personal to Jason that can hurt him emotionally, not physically like Damian probably thinks. Maybe the content is connected to Jason thinking that he hasn't a soul.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## AJpyro

> I considered that but I couldn't come up with a reason why Alfred would have it, why it would be stashed away in a bat-box and why Damian thought it would be enough to put Jason down.


For Alfred, I just figured Jason would trust the Old Man to keep it secret and safe. For who would suspect or ask the Butler.

The Damien part...yeah stumped there. Maybe the lingering questions surrounding them is a trigger/BSoD for Jason. Maybe there's a retconned element there that he could never square when he returned to life.

----------


## Arctic Cyclist

> That annual was brutal but i liked it.
> 
> Though anyone got a clue about the box? DId I miss an outside issue?


Jason's wife's head?

Sorry. I'll show myself out.

----------


## Sergard

> Jason's wife's head?
> 
> Sorry. I'll show myself out.


_Pirates of the Caribbean_ joke?

----------


## Jackalope89

> Jason's wife's head?
> 
> Sorry. I'll show myself out.


Artemis is still alive! She's just stuck in another reality of some sort...

----------


## kaimaciel

> _Pirates of the Caribbean_ joke?


Se7en joke, when Brad Pitt screams "what's in the BOX?!"

----------


## Schumiac

> Se7en joke, when Brad Pitt screams "what's in the BOX?!"


Lol in another thread I had asked if I was the only one hearing Pitt's voice saying that anytime someone mentioned "the box". Guess I wasnt...

As for the box,

*spoilers:*
to me it seems like it may be something Bruce had for safekeeping with Jason's knowledge, not something he has been holding onto to use against Jason. Jason actually says Batman wouldn't stoop so low as to do that. 
*end of spoilers* I kind of expect to be underwhelmed by its revelation in the end though...

----------


## okiedokiewo

> *spoilers:*
> My guess at least would be that in the box is something very personal to Jason that can hurt him emotionally, not physically like Damian probably thinks. Maybe the content is connected to Jason thinking that he hasn't a soul.
> *end of spoilers*


That's what I speculated in the Damian thread, too.

----------


## adrikito

> Lol in another thread I had asked if I was the only one hearing Pitt's voice saying that anytime someone mentioned "the box". Guess I wasnt...
> 
> As for the box,
> 
> *spoilers:*
> to me it seems like it may be something Bruce had for safekeeping with Jason's knowledge, not something he has been holding onto to use against Jason. Jason actually says Batman wouldn't stoop so low as to do that. 
> *end of spoilers* I kind of expect to be underwhelmed by its revelation in the end though...


In this box he has something to use against Jason...
*spoilers:*

Something related with Jason parents?
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Schumiac

> In this box he has something to use against Jason...
> *spoilers:*
> 
> Something related with Jason parents?
> *end of spoilers*


Well the way I see it,
it is either a "physical" weapon -which is highly doubtful, though if it is then it would suggest Jason isn't %100 plain old human, because if there is something out there specificly harmful to a single person than  I would guess there is something "more" to them than a "normal" human being? or it is something that can hurt him emotionally... which doesnt make much sense because it seems *spoilers:*
Jason already knows what is in it, so the box being opened and its contents revealed shouldn't be such earthshattering... it could be that he knows what the thing in it is about and that it is hurtful, just not what the "details" it entails are... which should still Mean he wont be totally blindsided, he can brace himself for it so shouldn't be something that can completely take him down on the spot? 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Sergard

> Se7en joke, when Brad Pitt screams "what's in the BOX?!"


Thanks for the clarification.  :Smile: 

I have a new theory about Jason's threat:

*spoilers:*
Jason knew that The Other set them up against one another and suspected that The Other probably was watching their fight to see the outcome. So Jason gave him something to watch and to let him think that Jason and Damian are going separate ways from now on.

At least I don't think that this was Jason's last appearance in Teen Titans. Especially not with introducing "the box". I highly doubt that Glass created the box so that someone else can reveal its secret in another title.

I'd also like to know how Jason got all his information about the Other so far. He was Damian's only informant. Seems to be pretty hard to find any information about that person(?).
*end of spoilers*

----------


## G-Potion

> Well the way I see it,
> it is either a "physical" weapon -which is highly doubtful, though if it is then it would suggest Jason isn't %100 plain old human, because if there is something out there specificly harmful to a single person than  I would guess there is something "more" to them than a "normal" human being? or it is something that can hurt him emotionally... which doesnt make much sense because it seems


*spoilers:*
Right, on one hand it's unlikely to be a weapon to take Jason down, but if a supernatural thing, then Lobdell can tie it up with the 'lack of soul' thing that he's been hinting at for a long time. That said, doesn't seem more important than the whole crusade if it only concerns his safety and mystical nature, unless this thing can turn Jason into a weapon that harm others. On the other hand, emotional weapons always tend to hurt Jason more. But then why have it in a box if he already knows what's inside?
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Zaresh

Could be too that Damian meant to destroy the Box contents. Jason said that, at least for him, those contents were more important that (Bruce's) crusade.

----------


## G-Potion

> Thanks for the clarification. 
> 
> I have a new theory about Jason's threat:
> 
> *spoilers:*
> Jason knew that The Other set them up against one another and suspected that The Other probably was watching their fight to see the outcome. So Jason gave him something to watch and to let him think that Jason and Damian are going separate ways from now on.
> 
> At least I don't think that this was Jason's last appearance in Teen Titans. Especially not with introducing "the box". I highly doubt that Glass created the box so that someone else can reveal its secret in another title.
> 
> ...


*spoilers:*
If there's indeed a degree of collaboration between Lobdell and Glass, the box might be passed on to Lobdell to take care of. Knowing Lobdell's tendency to reference relevant stuff in other titles, it's likely he wouldn't leave this one out.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Schumiac

The problem with the "box" is, if it is that crucial and important and harmful... I don't see Alfred or Bruce just letting Damian to take it with him to face Jason... Alfred interfered, yes, and pretty much let Damina go with a "you are wrong about this young man". I don't expect Alfred to try and get into a physical fight with Damian but I also don't think he would keep it a secret and not inform Bruce if this is such a major issue...


This is why, although I am intrigued by it, I expect to be eventually let down by what the box contains and go "this is what the whole fuss was about?"

*spoilers:*
I don't think it can be something that will turn Jason into a weapon, as makes no sense for Damian to bring in something that can make Jason more formidable a foe. I think what is in the box is clearly meant to hurt Jason somehow or influence him in a certain way...


and really wish they avoid going the "lacks a soul" thing. If memory serves they did that with White Canary in the Arrow series so would be a copy of that but more than that if they go the "box contains a weapon" route than basically this is a vampire story. Resurrected? Check. Lacks a soul? Check. Can be killed with a special weapon? Check.  Creative? Cross out... 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## G-Potion

> *spoilers:*
> I don't think it can be something that will turn Jason into a weapon, as makes no sense for Damian to bring in something that can make Jason more formidable a foe. I think what is in the box is clearly meant to hurt Jason somehow or influence him in a certain way...
> 
> 
> and really wish they avoid going the "lacks a soul" thing. If memory serves they did that with White Canary in the Arrow series so would be a copy of that but more than that if they go the "box contains a weapon" route than basically this is a vampire story. Resurrected? Check. Lacks a soul? Check. Can be killed with a special weapon? Check. Creative? Cross out...
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
I think it's also possible that Damian had the wrong idea about what the box supposedly can do.

Whether the box plays a part in Jason's story going forward, the "lack of a soul" has already seemingly been a plot point in waiting for a long time. Back in the N52 Jason capable of learning some mystical arts kinda indicative of him having a bit of supernatural side. In Rebirth the lack of soul thing iirc has been hinted at about 3 times or so.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Sergard

I'd like to point out that, judging by the solicitations of the upcoming TT and Deathstroke crossover, this will be the second time within a year that Slade and Jason don't meet because Slade goes to prison and Jason doesn't.

----------


## Sergard

That's fast.

@airair_ii

----------


## K. Jones

Jason and Damian are definitely hardcore enough to put on a show and beat the crap out of each other to fake out an "all-seeing-monitor" style super-villain.

----------


## Sergard

On Reddit, someone suggested that the box content could be Jason's most cherished memory, the one he gave away in the old RHatO run.
I don't know why and how this memory should be in the mystery box (and I'd actually prefer the content to be something else that better fits all the in-story reactions shown so far). But I like the thought of Jason having this memory back. It's such a heartwarming moment with Bruce.

----------


## G-Potion

ExploringTheTimeLab reviews the Annual. I've been waiting for this and as usual, very comprehensive and worth reading.

 [Link]

----------


## G-Potion

> On Reddit, someone suggested that the box content could be Jason's most cherished memory, the one he gave away in the old RHatO run.
> I don't know why and how this memory should be in the mystery box (and I'd actually prefer the content to be something else that better fits all the in-story reactions shown so far). But I like the thought of Jason having this memory back. It's such a heartwarming moment with Bruce.


That's a nice theory actually. Not in term of its power over Jason, but rather the sentimental value. Did Jason get it back after the memory loss arc or S'Aru still has it, I can't remember.

----------


## Zaresh

Every time I'm more and more convinced that it's an item that is emotionaly tied to Jason alone, and only bears meaning for him; and that Damian was theatening to destroy it, not using it against Jason. Or wasn't even really aware of what was inside the box, even.

That, or it really was nothing but a random plot device that we will never see again. I hope it's not this case.

Could be the whole reason why Jason is doing what he's doing too: fighting against the evil of the world, from before his days as Robin even. Some new background story. Or yeah, I guess it could be that cherished memory  :Smile: .

----------


## RedBird

Have you guys seen this statue!? It's so adorable!

*I NEED IT NOW*








Q-Master Diorama, Batman Family diorama by Qmx
U$199,95 julho 2019

----------


## Zaresh

> Have you guys seen this statue!? It's so adorable!
> 
> *I NEED IT NOW*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The face of Tim is a bit off, but it's a very cool statue. Lovely.

----------


## Sergard

> ExploringTheTimeLab reviews the Annual. I've been waiting for this and as usual, very comprehensive and worth reading.
> 
>  [Link]


That's a great analysis. The only thing I'm disagreeing with is that part "Red Arrow gave Damian the idea that Red Hood betrayed him."
Red Arrow confronted Damian about the betrayal at the end of TT 26, so after Damian had stolen the mystery box from Alfred. Red Arrow only came to the same conclusion and went a little further by even suggesting that Jason IS The Other - something Damian never mentions in the Annual. So Damian probably doesn't share that opinion.

I'd also like to point out - even if it isn't connected to Jason, that
*spoilers:*
in the TT Annual, on the page with all that monitors, Roundhouse, Red Arrow and Djinn have an evil grin.
*end of spoilers*

I wonder if that means something or if it's just artistic choice.


About the statue/figurine: Jason and Damian are on point with their little squabbling, Jason pushing Damian's face away and Damian kicking Jason in the shoulder. But I miss Cass. I think a lot of fans consider her Bruce' kid too. Barbara on the other hand never had a "Batman's/Bruce' child" status.

----------


## G-Potion

> Have you guys seen this statue!? It's so adorable!
> 
> *I NEED IT NOW*


SO CUTE!! Batman is even smiling.  :Big Grin:

----------


## Lirica

> Have you guys seen this statue!? It's so adorable!
> 
> *I NEED IT NOW*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is really cute!




> About the statue/figurine: Jason and Damian are on point with their little squabbling, Jason pushing Damian's face away and Damian kicking Jason in the shoulder. But I miss Cass. I think a lot of fans consider her Bruce' kid too. Barbara on the other hand never had a "Batman's/Bruce' child" status.


I was under the impression that Cass is one of Bruce's adopted kids. Is that fanon?

----------


## Arsenal

> This is really cute!
> 
> 
> I was under the impression that Cass is one of Bruce's adopted kids. Is that fanon?


I think she was but don’t think she currently is post FP

----------


## Darkcrusade25

cass has really been more of a filler bat character post FP

----------


## Sergard

> cass has really been more of a filler bat character post FP


Let's hope that she'll be treated better in Outsiders.
I'm curious how Dexter Soy will draw her. If I remember correctly, we never saw her face in RHatO.

I wish DC would give Soy something to draw while Outsiders is indefinitely postponed.
I'm actually surprised that Soy isn't drawing RHatO #32 while Woods is taking a one-issue-break.

----------


## TheCape

> Have you guys seen this statue!? It's so adorable!
> 
> *I NEED IT NOW*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is amazing!.

----------


## Sergard

@travisty1017: _Working on a commission! I have a few days between pages so If youre interested, I can get one or two in. First come first serve!!_



@travisty1017: _Warm up/thumbnail from a few days ago. I normally hate inking but I have been experimenting with rendering styles and just wanted to see how it would look. Opinions/criticism is welcome. Be gentle though, Im fragile 😉 #dccomics #redhood #jasontodd_



@thatwhitebox: _[batfam] Watched Kingsman for the first time recently and couldnt unsee Eggsy as Jason so- #kingsman #jasontodd_

----------


## Schumiac

Oh my God, I want that statue! 




> ExploringTheTimeLab reviews the Annual. I've been waiting for this and as usual, very comprehensive and worth reading.
> 
>  [Link]


That is a great review... It really was a sad issue because both Damian and Jason are cut-off from their family and it has been painful and now they lost the connection they had to one another too... They can (and I am sure will) rebuild from this but yeah, sad for them both.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Oh my God, I want that statue! 
> 
> 
> 
> That is a great review... It really was a sad issue because both Damian and Jason are cut-off from their family and it has been painful and now they lost the connection they had to one another too... They can (and I am sure will) rebuild from this but yeah, sad for them both.


And Jason did try to talk it out, but whatever is in that box, triggered Jason in a cold rage enough to do a number on Damian. So, it really is something quite personal to him.

----------


## Lirica

> I think she was but don’t think she currently is post FP


Aww, that's a shame.  :Frown:

----------


## Aahz

Even Pre Flashpoint it was only said that she was adoped after Banman R.I.P. (when Batman was "dead"), and once Batman was back, Cassandra had mostly disappeared from the comics.

----------


## Celgress

> ...It's so adorable!
> 
> *I NEED IT NOW*


Indeed it is or maybe I should rather say they are.  :Embarrassment:

----------


## Jackalope89

Yeah, Cass was adopted when Batgirl. But when she became Black Bat, she went off to Hong Kong and Steph took over being Batgirl in a very fun read.

Post-Flashpoint, that got axed.

What I want to see; we know that Jason and Dick are more or less cordial (when Dick is actually Dick), Jason and Tim get along (a lot better than pre-Flashpoint), and Jason wanted to try and be a good brother to Damian (though Damian takes after Bruce in a few too many ways right now). It would be interesting to see Jason work with and get to know Steph and Cass. Maybe something with the Outsiders, if that ever happens. As Jason has barely interacted with either of them. Pre OR post Flashpoint.

----------


## Sergard

@jion_artpic




@kikiwongrb

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Have you guys seen this statue!? It's so adorable!
> 
> *I NEED IT NOW*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If anyone has $200 to spare, is up for preorder on BBTS

https://www.bigbadtoystore.com/Produ...nDetails/87585

ETA July.

DC Essential's Red Hood is also up for preorder

https://www.bigbadtoystore.com/Produ...nDetails/87253

----------


## dietrich

> Ok, so a case of "bullying the hurt dragon". I think I can live with that: I was expecting worse, to be honest.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe they guessed that he would know about that by the news. Dick is still a public figure, right? Or maybe not, and theh just don't want to make him even more upset. I don't know. At his point, I guess the writers should have known already that Dick story would turn like it did.


Bullying the Dragon is a different trope. Bullying the Dragon is humans in [X-Men] picking on mutants who are stronger just because racism in, Banner [Hulk tv series] getting harassed and pushed around needlessly because people think he is weak even when he growls and protests.

Going after someone because you believe he is the bad dude and tried to kill you and your team is called vengeance/retaliation/vigilante work/Batmaning . The reasoning for the confrontation and risk is what makes the difference. A big Difference.

Bullying the Dragon is basically bullying someone stronger. Fighting or attempting to get someone to own up isn't bullying.

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/zumaon

----------


## Celgress

> @jion_artpic


LMAO nice  :Big Grin:

----------


## RedBird

mayhw

----------


## Sergard

@CPSparkles: The fanart is beautiful. And the twitter account is a goldmine of tweeted and retweeted Jason Todd fanarts.

@zumaon




@zumaon

----------


## Sergard

@gothamtwinks: _this how the annual actually ended. they went and got ice cream._




@winterRimyeah




@an_atagasu

----------


## G-Potion

> @CPSparkles: The fanart is beautiful. And the twitter account is a goldmine of tweeted and retweeted Jason Todd fanarts.
> 
> @zumaon


Took a tour and came across this. I really like this All-Caste tattoo. Hope we'll see it again.

----------


## G-Potion

尘川跳崖

----------


## Sergard

> Took a tour and came across this. I really like this All-Caste tattoo. Hope we'll see it again.


I love it too. Theoretically, if Jason is somewhere really dark, he only has to strip and activate the All-Caste tattoo. Jason is his own flashlight xD

----------


## G-Potion

敷衍抱着嗜睡...

----------


## G-Potion

> I love it too. Theoretically, if Jason is somewhere really dark, he only has to strip and activate the All-Caste tattoo. Jason is his own flashlight xD


I don't know. I have a feeling its intensity is more like those glow in the dark stickers. ;p

----------


## Sergard

I posted the next re-read in the "The Jason Todd Reread" Thread. There are no preview pages like for the last issue because Detective Comics #524 isn't available on ReadDC.
(I thought it was but seemingly I forgot to check beforehand. It's a little strange that they have the Batman issues but not the ones for Detective Comics although the stories are intertwined.)




> I don't know. I have a feeling its intensity is more like those glow in the dark stickers. ;p


Writers could always give Jason a little "power-up" and claim that Jason can increase/decrease the light intensity.

----------


## RedBird

lightningstrikes-art

----------


## RedBird

> 尘川跳崖


I absolutely love _'falling'_ pieces, and this is no exception  :Big Grin:

----------


## Jackalope89

> lightningstrikes-art


Just realized; now both Jason and Damian can call Tim "replacement".

----------


## Sergard

@Too__ko: _Chinese New Year_






@Rayaaa_05

----------


## Sergard

@syusyusyu1515

----------


## Zaresh

Wow. I'm AFK two days and look at all those arts, and some of then honestly gorgeous. I'm definitely on the lazy side of the scale. This is awesome.

----------


## Sergard

That humor is right up my alley.

@zumaon

----------


## Sergard

@OtomeFaku




@OtomeFaku



@pengdead (That's a two-piece, the second art shows Dick)

----------


## Jackalope89

Just me, or does this seem like a very "Jason" thing to say?

----------


## Sergard

> Just me, or does this seem like a very "Jason" thing to say?


You know, now would be a good time to introduce Red X in Teen Titans and combine it with the fan theory of Red X being Jason. If we follow the theory that at the end of the TT Annual Jason only threatened Damian in order to make The Other believe that Jason is "out of the game" and won't help the Teen Titans anymore, then Jason could put on a new costume and name like Red X. So he can still keep an eye on the Teen Titans' safety and The Other's moves without letting anybody know his true intentions. In his role as thief he could even try to get closer to the Other and "work" for him, encounter the Teen Titans while "working" and seemingly fight them.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Jason being Red X was always a popular theory. And Lobdell did plan to introduce Red X into the comics as an evil persona for Tim around the time of Damian's death, but it was scrapped by editorial.

----------


## Sergard

@zumaon




@Dhoni10Cutter23

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Red Ronin

DykfeqeVsAA__vJ.jpg

----------


## Sergard

@0022212t




@0022212t




@e_noeno

----------


## Arsenal

> Red Ronin
> 
> DykfeqeVsAA__vJ.jpg


I honestly wouldn’t mind Jason taking the name or the outfit full time

----------


## Sergard

@Mrs_Wilson___




@narunaru37101



@gbj_Bellgreen (fanart is from January, so sorry if it has already been posted here)

----------


## G-Potion

> I honestly wouldn’t Jason taking mind the name or the outfit full time


Me too, me too.

----------


## G-Potion

> @gbj_Bellgreen (fanart is from January, so sorry if it has already been posted here)


I like this. They all have distinguishable hair and Jason has the calm look from Rebirth. The suits are beautiful too.

----------


## G-Potion

http://vorimar.tumblr.com/post/18255...inese-new-year

----------


## Sergard

@mugimhmh830

----------


## Jackalope89

Uh, wrong company Biz. Though I'm sure Wade would love the reference.

----------


## Schumiac

> http://vorimar.tumblr.com/post/18255...inese-new-year


I think the "little piggie" is Dick? If so, why is he a pig while rest of the family seem to be %100 humans (he is the only one with the pig ears)? and of course Damian is hugging an actual pig. lol and Tim has a piggie bank...  And I guess one could say Jason is probably eating pig, to complete the pig theme.

----------


## G-Potion

February 5th is the start of  the Year of the Pig, hence the theme. Happy Lunar New Year!

----------


## Schumiac

D'oh... If I have checked the link, would realize that... 

Happy Lunar New Year  :Smile:

----------


## Jackalope89

I guess Jason is thinking, "Well, that explains a few things."

----------


## G-Potion

http://dsasworld.tumblr.com/post/182551310358

----------


## Sergard

@A_sebury




@A_sebury

----------


## G-Potion

> @A_sebury


At first I thought something happened to break his helmet. Turned out it's a giant macaron. No idea why there's a rose cloche there, but it does look funny.

----------


## Sergard

I found another Chinese New Year fanart with Clark, Bruce, the four Robins, Jon and ... Jessica Cruz and Wonder Woman?
I think it's not finished yet, but it already looks very cute.

@hian0508

----------


## Schumiac

> No idea why there's a rose cloche there, but it does look funny.


Little Prince homage maybe?

----------


## G-Potion

> Little Prince homage maybe?


Ha I was too preoccupied with what it even has to do with Beauty and the Beast, didn't even think of your suggestion. It's a good one though.

----------


## Sergard

Dexter Soy



Dexter Soy

----------


## G-Potion

> 


Wow. This got my imagination flying. Feels like there's a story behind. 

Also... is that Jason's new hair?

----------


## G-Potion

I can't wait until this happens in RHATO.

https://twitter.com/zumaon

----------


## Sergard

@Too__ko: _Dragon #JasonTodd_




@in_gloom_x




amaririsurouge

----------


## Sergard

A LOT of batfam fanarts by Clot (@clotdrawing on Twitter)

source (for all three fanarts)

----------


## Sergard

And MORE batfam by Clot.

Source:

----------


## Sergard

Also by Clot.

Source




And for the sake of completeness (and because I like the fanart): The real ladies of the batfam. (There's also a fanart of Catwoman, Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy when you follow the link.)



I'm not exactly sure what the boys are planning to do with Tim here (also by Clot, and more Tim fanart when you follow the link), but Tim looks like he doesn't care.

----------


## Schumiac

I kind of wish they did an elseworlds comic run with the real ladies of batfamily...

----------


## Sergard

@heeju_Q





@dami__28





@bluetost_T

----------


## Sergard

@bluetost_T (following the link, there are two more fanarts with Jason and Slade)






@bluetost_T






@bluetost_T

----------


## Mataza

> 


Uhm, why are they taking him against a pillar? Its a really bizarre drawing.

----------


## G-Potion

Love the Slade Jason ones. AK logo on Jason's piggy and Slade's is blind in one eye lol.

----------


## Sergard

Mayh Ink.: _"Blood Hood"_ (There's also a Nightwing - "Bloodwing" - version)



Boo Boo The Fool (@allyallyorange)

----------


## Lirica

I can always count on seeing amazing Jason fanart when coming in here! So good!  :Smile:

----------


## Sergard

Sorry, I forgot to post a fanart in my previous post. Here's the third fanart of Boo Boo The Fool (@allyallyorange).



And that's the fourth one.

----------


## Sergard

@francishsie




@mugimhmh830




@nockuth

----------


## Sergard

JJMK








And a (probably very bad) google translation:

black box: Dick Grayson, Nightwing (2n years old, the eldest son) (sorry, I forgot to copy the Korean text)
black bubbles: I want to be treated like you! 나도, 형 대접 받고 싶다!!!
Damian: What is it, Grayson? 뭐냐,그레이슨. 
What/Where are you looking at? 뭘봐? 
Black box: Up, not down. 위 아래가 없음
Dick ... No, you just ... just grow up healthy ... ...아니, 너는 그냥... 건강하게만 자라다오...
Tim: Concentration. Let's make the family relationship stronger later, brother. 집중. 가족 관계는 나중에 돈독히 하도록 해, 형.
black box: A draft -  기시감
Dick: Yes, Bru- ... No, Tim no, my, no, you ... 네, 브루... 아니, 팀 아니, 내, 아니, 너...
Jason: YO!
It's a little late. 좀 늦었지.
Dick: Jason! 재이슨!.
Black bubbles: Once you ... 너도 한 때는 ....
Robin Jason: Nice to meet you. 반가워, 형! 
I'm the new Robin. 나는 새 로빈이야.
Jason: What? 야려?
야리냐? - ??? [I have no idea what that means]
...
Dick: You are the worst!!!! - 네가 제일 나빠!!!
Jason: What? ㅁ, ㅜ머?
Dick: Plunge a knife into my chest!!! 형 가슴에 대못을 박고!!!

----------


## Sergard

@mugimhmh830




@SarahAmundson




@soosdraws

----------


## G-Potion

Ha, those ones by @allyallyorange are _great_.

----------


## G-Potion

http://vorimar.tumblr.com/post/182657947985

----------


## Sergard

@myj5127_2




@0022212t




@mugimhmh830

----------


## G-Potion

Does this count as a RH fanart? ;p

https://twitter.com/rayinthedeep

----------


## Sergard

@G-Potion: It surely does. The stuff looks cute.


Mayh Ink. 




While waiting for the RH:O #31 preview (still waiting) I've reread the solicitation for the issue.




> Red Hood and Arsenal began this investigation of the Underlife together in Beijing, and this is where it ends: in an abandoned prison in Mexico. With Roy Harper having passed, Jason Todd finds himself teamed with an ally he couldnt have imaginedWingman! (But waitwasnt Jason the face beneath Wingmans mask in BATMAN INCORPORATED?!) When it is all over, Red Hood arrives at a conclusion that will shake the streets of Gotham Cityforever?


I wonder how everything will fall into place. Beijing/Suzie Su, the drugs, Underlife, Solitary being Jason's dad, the prison in Mexico, Wingman, the Mondays, Bunker, Dog ... - there are so many puzzle pieces.

----------


## Arsenal

I don’t think the Suzuki Su thing (if it’s ever brought up) is gonna come up until  next arc tbh

----------


## Sergard

> I dont think the Suzuki Su thing (if its ever brought up) is gonna come up until  next arc tbh


I don't think Suzie and her sisters will make an appearance in the near future (although I really like them) but Jason has already found the drugs last issue because of which Jason and Roy visited Suzie in the Annual. I'm curious why Solitary/the Underlife distributes these tainted drugs in the first place. Especially since Solitary was a drug dealer in the past and hated the job/felt guilty because his wife became an addict because of him. But so far, Solitary doesn't look very bothered about his current criminal activities.

----------


## Arsenal

> I don't think Suzie and her sisters will make an appearance in the near future (although I really like them) but Jason has already found the drugs last issue because of which Jason and Roy visited Suzie in the Annual. I'm curious why Solitary/the Underlife distributes these tainted drugs in the first place. Especially since Solitary was a drug dealer in the past and hated the job/felt guilty because his wife became an addict because of him. But so far, Solitary doesn't look very bothered about his current criminal activities.


When I was talking about Suzie and her sisters, I was mainly referring to how they might not like each other but will always protect the black sheep regardless. Given how Lobdell wrote that interaction, it seems unlikely that it wont be brought up in some future arc.

----------


## Sergard

> When I was talking about Suzie and her sisters, I was mainly referring to how they might not like each other but will always protect the black sheep regardless. Given how Lobdell wrote that interaction, it seems unlikely that it wont be brought up in some future arc.


Okay, sorry. When I said "Beijing/Suzie Su" I only meant the setup, that the Underlife produces and distributes bad drugs and has tried to put the blame on Suzie. And I don't understand why the Underlife would do something like that. What would they gain?

----------


## Arsenal

> Okay, sorry. When I said "Beijing/Suzie Su" I only meant the setup, that the Underlife produces and distributes bad drugs and has tried to put the blame on Suzie. And I don't understand why the Underlife would do something like that. What would they gain?


My best guess is Willis is doing all of this for Jason. Now that he has power and resources, maybe he wants to give Jason everything he couldnt give him before. We know hes been following Jason for awhile now and I feel like it was atleast implied that hes partially responsible for this version of the outlaws forming. I wouldnt be surprised if Willis wasnt responsible for their temporary separation too.

Plus it seems like his entire organization (beyond some irrelevant low level people) are robots controlled by Willis.

----------


## Arsenal

Preview is out 

https://13thdimension.com/exclusive-...ood-outlaw-31/

----------


## Sergard

> Preview is out 
> 
> https://13thdimension.com/exclusive-...ood-outlaw-31/


I'll create a discussion thread.

----------


## G-Potion

> *My best guess is Willis is doing all of this for Jason*. Now that he has power and resources, maybe he wants to give Jason everything he couldn’t give him before. We know he’s been following Jason for awhile now and I feel like it was atleast implied that he’s partially responsible for this version of the outlaws forming. I wouldn’t be surprised if Willis wasn’t responsible for their temporary separation too.
> 
> Plus it seems like his entire organization (beyond some irrelevant low level people) are robots controlled by Willis.


That made me think... how long has he been planning all this? I can imagine Willis cursing to high heaven every time he had to make major changes to the plan because Jason just became Robin... no wait... he's dead... but now he's not... and he's apparently a crime boss now... time to modify plans to fit in the dark side.

----------


## Arsenal

> That made me think... how long has he been planning all this? I can imagine Willis cursing to high heaven every time he had to make major changes to the plan because Jason just became Robin... no wait... he's dead... but now he's not... and he's apparently a crime boss now... time to modify plans to fit in the dark side.


Based on the preview, I’d say Willis likely didnt start this until after Jason’s resurrection.

----------


## Zaresh

> Based on the preview, I’d say Willis likely didnt start this until after Jason’s resurrection.


I am guessing he started working towards it after the Under the Hood plan failed (and Jason's identity was sort of revealed, maybe).

----------


## Sergard

@grossularlilium




@dagudack_memory




@sferiolla

----------


## G-Potion

These are so cool. Especially the last one holy crap.

----------


## Zaresh

> These are so cool. Especially the last one holy crap.


Yeah, definitely. The last one is pretty awesome, honestly.

----------


## Sergard

Found this fanart by Richard Wayne on Tumblr. It's from June 2015. Close enough to the current costume.




And since I dig the art style, here's a Jason from September 2015.




And last but not least the four Robins (their clothes are from Digimon Adventure season 1) drawn in December 2015.

----------


## Sergard

@fade_unlimited






@SATORIXXXIA

----------


## Sergard

@francishsie: _arkham knight but actually a knight_





A little off-topic: Does this forum have a drawing thread? I.e. a thread in which people can motivate each other to draw something in their free time and complete noobs (like me) can get some tips?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine



----------


## G-Potion

> A little off-topic: Does this forum have a drawing thread? I.e. a thread in which people can motivate each other to draw something in their free time and complete noobs (like me) can get some tips?


I haven't seen one. But we can try something here, like having a certain themes once in a while so we have something to doodle about.

----------


## G-Potion

> 


It's nice to see Soy working on more Jason / Red Ronin art recently. DC needs to pick up on the hype for this design though, seriously.

----------


## Sergard

@ezzatArief





@JayKorre: "_A Damned Prince of Gotham - First of a three part tryptic I've been working on <3 #jasontodd #redhood_"





@Tsukeoni

----------


## Sergard

Mayh Ink.




@cyanparade

----------


## Sergard

> I haven't seen one. But we can try something here, like having a certain themes once in a while so we have something to doodle about.


"Here" like here in the Jason Todd appreciation thread? Personally, that's fine with me since my goal is to draw some nice Jason Todd fanart some day anyway. But I'm also cool with a separate thread somewhere else if the drawing discussion is too off-topic here.

----------


## Sergard

@Dam_ATM_jason




@Dam_ATM_jason




@salmokin

----------


## Sergard

@Nyangda_o0o

----------


## Sergard

@Nyangda_o0o

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Jason got to be on a Variant for Detective #1000

----------


## Arsenal

That’s honestly more than I was expecting.

----------


## Sergard

@moon115115




@penciler_grazie




@grossularlilium

----------


## G-Potion

I'm still amazed that nowadays there seem to be more art to be found on twitter compared to tumblr.

----------


## G-Potion

> "Here" like here in the Jason Todd appreciation thread? Personally, that's fine with me since my goal is to draw some nice Jason Todd fanart some day anyway. But I'm also cool with a separate thread somewhere else if the drawing discussion is too off-topic here.


I guess. I'm more comfortable sharing my art here in this thread anyway, familiar faces and all that. And drawing discussion is fine, we've had it a few times when there was nothing else to talk about.

----------


## RedBird

brucewaynehomeforangrychildren

----------


## G-Potion

Oh this looks so alive with the beautiful lighting. The subject matter is one of my favorites as well.

----------


## Arsenal

Jason makes an appearance in Detective 1,000. King just posted a picture of him (in his old suit) along with the rest of the bat fam.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Jason makes an appearance in Detective 1,000. King just posted a picture of him (in his old suit) along with the rest of the bat fam.


Ok, who used the monkey paw?

----------


## Arsenal

> Ok, who used the monkey paw?


Who used the what now?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

It's a joke about how King tends to awfully mishandle Jason every time he writes him.

----------


## Jackalope89

And the monkey paw is from a fable. For every finger, it grants a wish, but each wish comes with an unseen cost. For example, if you wished for a lot of money, you would get it. But then find out you got that money because a close relative died and that was the inheritance or whatever.

----------


## Sergard

It's a short story. And nearly the whole batfamily seems to be part of it. I don't think that Jason will appear in a lot of panels.
But I'm already confused because Jason isn't wearing any logo. On the other hand, seeing Duke and Jason in a panel is nice. I wished those two would hang out more.
I loved their dynamic in Tony Patrick's "Role Call" (and Catwoman's involvement added the final touch.)



(source)

----------


## G-Potion

I was wondering about the logo myself. Though I have to admit, the suit does look better without it.

----------


## Sergard

I'm totally okay with Jason not wearing any logo (as long as there is an explanation why he decided to ditch the bat logo/his own logo) but the suit looks a little plain on that page.
And I'm surprised that I say that but the page makes me miss Batman/Bruce in this scene. This "family" looks so fractured. They are all separated in little groups. The page doesn't deliver a feeling of family but rather a feeling of emotional distance.

----------


## G-Potion

> This "family" looks so fractured. They are all separated in little groups. The page doesn't deliver a feeling of family but rather a feeling of emotional distance.


I think that's the point. And to be fair, besides some close relationships between some members, the family as a whole has always felt distant to me.

----------


## Zaresh

> brucewaynehomeforangrychildren


Wow! Beautiful piece.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I think that's the point. And to be fair, besides some close relationships between some members, the family as a whole has always felt distant to me.


And Jason, in his own words, is "the blackest of sheep" in a family of people that would all be black sheep on their own. In the first Outlaws Rebirth Annual, he and Dick sort of had some bonding/understanding moments. And now Dick is "Ric" and being a poor imitation of Jason.

Tim... Demoted himself and ran off to join up with comics Young Justice.

Damian, well, Jason did try to connect with him, especially during this whole dealing with the "Other" and what not. But Damian screwed the pooch on that one (don't tell him I used such a phrase). Hard.

Bruce... Enough baggage there to hold up customs at an airport for a month. With Babs, Cass, and Steph. Well, he and Babs haven't interacted much since Rebirth, and Jason just hasn't interacted with the other two much period.

At least he and aunt Kate get along well enough.

----------


## Sergard

@Flaffizz (and here's the story behind the artworks)

----------


## Sergard



----------


## Sergard

@mugimhmh830





@KylerClodfelter

----------


## G-Potion

That's so cute! Of course someone would think of Jason reading that story.  :Smile:

----------


## Sergard

@grossularlilium




@__DangD




@an_atagasu (there is a second fanart with Jon talking to Damian but since it's Korean I have no idea what they are saying)

----------


## Ssstammerer

> It's a short story. And nearly the whole batfamily seems to be part of it. I don't think that Jason will appear in a lot of panels.
> But I'm already confused because Jason isn't wearing any logo. On the other hand, seeing Duke and Jason in a panel is nice. I wished those two would hang out more.
> I loved their dynamic in Tony Patrick's "Role Call" (and Catwoman's involvement added the final touch.)
> 
> 
> 
> (source)


It was just an error on the inker's part.

----------


## Lirica

> And the monkey paw is from a fable. For every finger, it grants a wish, but each wish comes with an unseen cost. For example, if you wished for a lot of money, you would get it. But then find out you got that money because a close relative died and that was the inheritance or whatever.


Omg thank you for this explanation. I never really got the meaning and always forgot about it before I had the chance to look it up.

----------


## Rise

So many things happened since last time I was here.

First, Jason showing up in YJ. I'm suprised, but at the same time not really because Brandon Vietti's face when they were asked if there's a chance for Jason to appear told me everything I need to know. I don't care much about the show to be honest, but I will give it a chance if Jason got an arc.

Second, Jason finally is getting his hair back!!

Third, Alfred defending Jason and making it clear that's he is part of this family was great. Finally someone standing up for Jason for once! And the whole thing between Damian and Jason turning out to be a misunderstanding was exactly as I predicted and I'm glad that my trust in Antone wasn't misplaced because I know he wouldn't let him be a traitor. 

And last, the mixed feelings I have about Bendis being clearly interested in Jason. I'm glad that more creators are getting interested in Jason because Lobdell isn't going to write him forever and he does needs some new blood, but *Bendis*.

----------


## Jackalope89

> So many things happened since last time I was here.
> 
> First, Jason showing up in YJ. I'm suprised, but at the same time not really because Brandon Vietti's face when they were asked if there's a chance for Jason to appear told me everything I need to know. I don't care much about the show to be honest, but I will give it a chance if Jason got an arc.
> 
> Second, Jason finally is getting his hair back!!
> 
> Third, Alfred defending Jason and making it clear that's he is part of this family was great. Finally someone standing up for Jason for once! And the whole thing between Damian and Jason turning out to be a misunderstanding was exactly as I predicted and I'm glad that my trust in Antone wasn't misplaced because I know he wouldn't let him be a traitor. 
> 
> And last, the mixed feelings I have about Bendis being clearly interested in Jason. I'm glad that more creators are getting interested in Jason because Lobdell isn't going to write him forever and he does needs some new blood, but *Bendis*.


Yeah, with you on that one. Never read Bendis until he took over the Superman line. Gave it a go, and now wish he never touched it.

----------


## Zaresh

> @Flaffizz (and here's the story behind the artworks)


These are heartwarming <3 The whole idea is.

----------


## Raijin

So is it possible that Bunker and Wingman will join Jaybird in Gotham City for the next story arc? He doesn't really have a supporting cast at the moment anyway.

----------


## Jackalope89

> So is it possible that Bunker and Wingman will join Jaybird in Gotham City for the next story arc? He doesn't really have a supporting cast at the moment anyway.


Sure seems like it. Though, Jason does seem to be making a detour before going to Gotham himself.

----------


## Arsenal

> So is it possible that Bunker and Wingman will join Jaybird in Gotham City for the next story arc? He doesn't really have a supporting cast at the moment anyway.


Seems likely both will in some capacity, though I suspect that whatever organization is backing Jason will help fill out his support case too.

----------


## Sergard

@gothamtwinks: _"good girl"_

----------


## G-Potion

Ah there it is, Dog fan art.  :Smile:

----------


## G-Potion

More Dog

https://twitter.com/zumaon

----------


## Sergard

Pete Woods: _"Enough ranting for today. Heres some comics stuff. Desk shot. Its all I can show you right now."_

----------


## G-Potion

Aptly named. Remind me of Soy's Choke drink.

----------


## Zaresh

> Pete Woods: _"Enough ranting for today. Here’s some comics stuff. Desk shot. It’s all I can show you right now."_


The face of that fish is so... happy.

----------


## Jackalope89

> The face of that fish is so... happy.


Reminds me of this.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Straight from Toy Fair 2019

----------


## dietrich

> Reminds me of this.


So that's where Joker fish from 666 Future comes from. What Batman Movie is this?

----------


## JasonTodd428

> Reminds me of this.


Yeah it reminds me of that too. That was the first thing that popped into my head when I saw it. Could also be a nod at Detective Comics Vol 1 #475 "The Laughing Fish", which I think this BTAS episode was also referencing.

----------


## Jackalope89

> So that's where Joker fish from 666 Future comes from. What Batman Movie is this?


That's just Batman the Animated Series. Episode 46.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

The Batman universe in 2019 by Jason Fabok



https://twitter.com/JasonFabok/statu...18962957950977

If we take this at face value, then yeah, we're back to Soy's costume.

----------


## Sergard

misterpoofofficial

----------


## Sergard

ashrayus








fireflyxrebel

----------


## Sergard

teaitis







@dagudack_memory





SATORIXXXIA

----------


## Sergard

soosdraw





an_atagasu




Vhyrel

----------


## Sergard

penciler_grazie: _"I blame #CurranWalters for one of my new obsessions ❤️ Jason Todd practicing sketch #myart #EllaGrazieArt #Robin #fanart #Titans"_







xian1019

----------


## Sergard

_zynix10


(There is also a gif version that I can't embed here)

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Bruce Timm style Red Hood
https://www.facebook.com/21761460925...7261203359258/

----------


## Sergard

@bloodyword/Jaytim_rr




And Jason in Detective Comics #1000 with the logo by Tony S Daniel.

----------


## G-Potion

> Bruce Timm style Red Hood
> https://www.facebook.com/21761460925...7261203359258/


That's a super curly white streak.

----------


## G-Potion

> _zynix10
> 
> 
> (There is also a gif version that I can't embed here)


I just adore his tiny hands.

----------


## Mataza

> @bloodyword/Jaytim_rr



Oh wow, this just works. Needs to happen in another world.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> And Jason in Detective Comics #1000 with the logo by Tony S Daniel.


The synopsis of the story doesn't helps to place the story at some point in continuity.




> “Batman’s Greatest Case” by Tom King, Tony Daniel and Joëlle Jones
> 
> Groundbreaking BATMAN writer Tom King is joined by Tony Daniel and Joëlle Jones, who share artistic duties on the story. Presented using parallel story threads, Bruce Wayne visits his parents’ grave while Batman assembles his entire coalition of allies around him.

----------


## Zaresh

> The Batman universe in 2019 by Jason Fabok
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/JasonFabok/statu...18962957950977
> 
> If we take this at face value, then yeah, we're back to Soy's costume.


Interesting that Tim is side by side with Jason (and Damian, but I guess that's not surprising).

Edit: nevermind. Dick is just above them (ok, I may be a bit blind). Sooo it's a Robin thing.

Edit2: and sooo many beautiful fanarts, wow!

----------


## Aahz

> If we take this at face value, then yeah, we're back to Soy's costume.


Is that really the Soy version or just is default look?
I'm also not sure if it really means much, maybe the artists was just not aware of the new look or decided with the more iconic version.

Tim'S costume is for example also not identical with his current design (or any of his part costume designs I'm aware of).
Nichtwing's costume is also not really the Rebirth Version (and he is anyway not Nightwing at the moment).

----------


## Sergard

> Interesting that Tim is side by side with Jason (and Damian, but I guess that's not surprising).
> 
> Edit: nevermind. Dick is just above them (ok, I may be a bit blind). Sooo it's a Robin thing.


Thanks. I thought I was the only one who didn't spot Dick at first and thought "Hey, where's Nightwing? Shouldn't he be with the other Robins? .... oh wait, there he is.".

Jason is aiming at Cass. I hope that isn't some very clever hidden hint that there'll be a Jason and Cass fight in the future. I'm so done with the batfam fighting each other.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Tim's costume is identical to the one he has on YJ and so Damian's consistent with his look in TT. The outliers are Jason and Dick, but if we assume they will be back to their normal appearances soon, then makes sense.

----------


## Arsenal

Could be a jump forward/tease of what’s to come later in his run.

----------


## Zaresh

> Tim's costume is identical to the one he has on YJ and so Damian's consistent with his look in TT. The outliers are Jason and Dick, but if we assume they will be back to their normal appearances soon, then makes sense.


Also to notice that Jason is definitely in the "Batman's Allies" group. I guess we can put those rumours about Leviatan to rest for a long while.

----------


## Sergard

The colored variant of RH:O #32 by Shane Davis

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Also to notice that Jason is definitely in the "Batman's Allies" group. I guess we can put those rumours about Leviatan to rest for a long while.


Assuming is a piece that actually reflects the status quo and not something that Fabok just thought it was cool.

----------


## Zaresh

> The colored variant of RH:O #32 by Shane Davis


Neat. Very good cover.




> Assuming is a piece that actually reflects the status quo and not something that Fabok just thought it was cool.


I mean, yeah; of course.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Better looks at BTAS Red Hood



Don't like it. Jason looks too old.

----------


## G-Potion

That scar is interesting though. Pierced through his helmet.

----------


## JasonTodd428

> Better looks at BTAS Red Hood
> 
> 
> 
> Don't like it. Jason looks too old.


In the actual BTAS setting (meaning in an actual episode of the series) the design of the action figure would work and I might have found it acceptable had Red Hood been in the show. After the fact as this design is though I'm gonna have to pass on it. I really dislike it.

----------


## Aahz

> Tim's costume is identical to the one he has on YJ and so Damian's consistent with his look in TT. The outliers are Jason and Dick, but if we assume they will be back to their normal appearances soon, then makes sense.


No the YJ costume has short sleeves and green shoulder pads.
And the costume in the picture he seems to have red trunks, which is something only Tim's original pre flashpoint costume had.

----------


## Sergard

@commonmola35






@commonmola35





bluetost_T

----------


## Sergard

cranity






baskinrobins69




RominaJones

----------


## Sergard

DamagedRed

----------


## Jackalope89

[IMG]https://em.*************40a3ee513481ff0cd97a654434dd067e68184bac/68747470733a2f2f732d6d656469612d63616368652d616b30  2e70696e696d672e636f6d2f373336782f66322f32622f6465  2f663232626465643464356132373062663938366461663434  65303135313365622e6a7067?s=fit&h=360&w=360&q=80[/IMG]

Roy's got you there, Jason.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine



----------


## G-Potion

http://bulletsxlattes.tumblr.com/post/182876086905




http://luvgalaxu.tumblr.com/post/182549648583

----------


## Arsenal

81DB6125-AC56-4626-8764-3B1E0843D96E.jpg

Jason goes to France, Penguin gets a new ally & Essence makes a comeback.

----------


## Sergard

Full DC Comics May 2019 Catalog on BC

And a little bigger version of the RH:O #34 solicitation:








> Jason Todd heads to France to expand the Iceberg Lounge's sphere of influence - or are his motives more ambitious? Meanwhile, the Penguin gains an unexpected ally in his bid to topple the Red Hood, but the DCU's greatest Outlaw is busy battling a threat from his past who feels like his recent aspirations might threaten more than just Gotham City. Brace yourselves for the shocking return of Essence!



Red Hood is also on the Detective Comics #1003 variant.




I don't know if Jason is on the horror movie variant of DCeased #1. That could be Jason or Dick.

----------


## Rise

I'm losing interest in the book again. I guess I will drop it for now.

And the variant cover with the Joker and Jason is absolutely gorgeous. Putri never fail to deliver.

----------


## G-Potion

This book is moving at a breakneck speed. So is Jason. But Essence is back. Can't complain.

----------


## Jackalope89

When you haven't had a chance to do the laundry in awhile...

----------


## Zaresh

> Full DC Comics May 2019 Catalog on BC
> 
> And a little bigger version of the RH:O #34 solicitation:


Oh, those two covers are sooo pretty.

I don't know what to think about the solicits themselves. It feels so disconnected from where we stand now that it could go to a lot of places, both good or bad.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

That solicit _really_ sounds like Jason is going Supervillian on us.

----------


## Jackalope89

> That solicit _really_ sounds like Jason is going Supervillian on us.


Best friend is dead, his outlaw family is missing, the closest thing he has to a father beat the crap out of him and kicked him out of his own city, his oldest "brother" is doing a bad impression of Jason, Tim is who knows where at this point in time, and Damian tried to toss him into a private prison with the likes of Black Mask after trying to use something to break him.

He now follows Dog, the new leader of the Outlaws, with a former Teen Titan that's been held prisoner, and a guy that's been masquerading as Jason's old Wingman for backup. Somewhat surprised it didn't happen a little sooner. Going back to his old Under the Red Hood roots, and all.

In all seriousness, its probably more of fighting crime as a crime lord sort of thing while not actually being evil.

----------


## AJpyro

Sweet. Essence is back.

----------


## Aahz

> Sweet. Essence is back.


Maybe that means that Lobdell will start to pick up the plot about Jason's soul.

----------


## Zaresh

Ha ha. I just saw Yasmine's cover for DCeased. Heh, clever; a nice reference to IT.

----------


## AJpyro

I heard some rumors that Jason is going to be in Bendis Leviathan event. Anyone got any more info?

----------


## Arsenal

Nothing confirmed yet. Just speculation.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I heard some rumors that Jason is going to be in Bendis Leviathan event. Anyone got any more info?


The gist of the rumor is that Bendis wanted an unexpected character to lead Leviathan on his event and he picked up Jason because making one of Bruce's sons the greatest evil mastermind in the DCU was the most shocking choice he could come up with. From there it has fallen into Lobdell to essentially undo all the character work he has put on Jason over the past seven years to make Jason regress into the crazy SOB that he was during Battle for the Cowl. 

And as it was pointed out earlier in the thread, it does seem like Jason is slowly but surely being pushed into the edge.

----------


## Sergard

Just for clarification: SOB stands for son of Batman or son of a b*tch?

In RH:O #31 it is stated that Jason made anonymous tips to D.E.O., Spyral and A.R.G.U.S. - that doesn't look like Jason wants to take over Underlife/Leviathan.

----------


## AJpyro

> The gist of the rumor is that Bendis wanted an unexpected character to lead Leviathan on his event and he picked up Jason because making one of Bruce's sons the greatest evil mastermind in the DCU was the most shocking choice he could come up with. From there it has fallen into Lobdell to essentially undo all the character work he has put on Jason over the past seven years to make Jason regress into the crazy SOB that he was during Battle for the Cowl. 
> 
> And as it was pointed out earlier in the thread, it does seem like Jason is slowly but surely being pushed into the edge.


That sounds lame and cliche.

----------


## Arsenal

Hopefully it’s just Lodbell following up on the conversation between Waylon and Jason in issue 17 and not what Dark said.

----------


## Sergard

@zumaon

----------


## Jackalope89

> The gist of the rumor is that Bendis wanted an unexpected character to lead Leviathan on his event and he picked up Jason because making one of Bruce's sons the greatest evil mastermind in the DCU was the most shocking choice he could come up with. From there it has fallen into Lobdell to essentially undo all the character work he has put on Jason over the past seven years to make Jason regress into the crazy SOB that he was during Battle for the Cowl. 
> 
> And as it was pointed out earlier in the thread, it does seem like Jason is slowly but surely being pushed into the edge.


Oh goody. Bendis character assassinating more established characters. And another one of my favorites.

----------


## kaimaciel

> The gist of the rumor is that Bendis wanted an unexpected character to lead Leviathan on his event and he picked up Jason because making one of Bruce's sons the greatest evil mastermind in the DCU was the most shocking choice he could come up with. From there it has fallen into Lobdell to essentially undo all the character work he has put on Jason over the past seven years to make Jason regress into the crazy SOB that he was during Battle for the Cowl. 
> 
> And as it was pointed out earlier in the thread, it does seem like Jason is slowly but surely being pushed into the edge.


I think I just died a little inside...

Lobdell did say he wasn't Bendis when he was asked to change Jason's race and sexuality, which leads me to believe he doesn't really like his style. However, if the guys at the top allow it, there's probably nothing he can do.

----------


## Slim Shady

I really hope that rumor isn’t going to happen, I’m just now getting back into Jason. That’s the only good thing for me that’s come out of the recent Nightwing stuff, since I stopped getting that, I’ve been catching up on Red Hood. What a fun run, I’m loving it. About to get into solo crowbar outlaw.

----------


## Mataza

> Lobdell did say he wasn't Bendis when he was asked to change Jason's race and sexuality


Wat? that happened?

----------


## Sergard

> Wat? that happened?


I found the tweet. But I don't know what he's referring to. When did Bendis change race/sexuality of a character?
And I don't know what the original post was. Probably someone asking if Jason could be made latino and gay/bi.

----------


## Darkcrusade25

Wild how Jason went into 2010s a villain and now he might leave the 10s as a villain still.

----------


## G-Potion

If Jason can be this ballsy and not eventually turn into a villain, this might be the best version of Jason yet. Finger-crossed. I'm curious about Essence being involved. Don't think she would care much whether Gotham or elsewhere is threatened. Unless "more than Gotham" meaning Jason's well-being.

----------


## Zaresh

> I found the tweet. But I don't know what he's referring to. When did Bendis change race/sexuality of a character?
> And I don't know what the original post was. Probably someone asking if Jason could be made latino and gay/bi.


Yep, iirc, the original tweet was asking for that exactly.

And as for what he meant, probably he was alluding to Bendis' hand/influence in the status change of some characters like Iceman (it wasn't him, but he was close to the writer, I think?) or his taste for making new, diversity characters take on classic characters mantle without a lot of build up behind (it has passed a few times, I think. But to be fair, at the time it was a common place in Marvel, had been for a few years). Those are my best guesses.

Edit: Or maybe it was a joke about pleasing the crowd.

----------


## RedBird

> Ha ha. I just saw Yasmine's cover for DCeased. Heh, clever; a nice reference to IT.


Yeah its pretty good  :Big Grin: 

I wonder if Jason will get any sort of role in this new DCeased comic, or maybe just a side story for himself? I mean for such a concept, why waste the opportunity to use a character who so famously died and returned. 

The significance is undeniable at this point, considering the imagery of Jasons death is even used as the cover XD

----------


## Zaresh

> Yeah its pretty good 
> 
> I wonder if Jason will get any sort of role in this new DCeased comic, or maybe just a side story for himself? I mean for such a concept, why waste the opportunity to use a character who so famously died and returned. 
> 
> The significance is undeniable at this point, considering the imagery of Jasons death is even used as the cover XD


It wouldn't be the first time they use him as a zombie, even, right?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Lobdell was alluding to the Iceman retcon.

----------


## Aahz

> It wouldn't be the first time they use him as a zombie, even, right?


No that was afaik done the first time in Legion of Super-Heroes Vol 4 #45 in 1993.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Yeah its pretty good 
> 
> I wonder if Jason will get any sort of role in this new DCeased comic, or maybe just a side story for himself? I mean for such a concept, why waste the opportunity to use a character who so famously died and returned. 
> 
> The significance is undeniable at this point, considering the imagery of Jasons death is even used as the cover XD


And then Jason, along with a host of other heroes that died and came back, with Jason in a red leather jacket, re-enact Thriller.

----------


## Sergard

No mentions of Jason in TT #27, only a small side note that "Damian got a beatdown from ex-mentor Red Hood" in the Annual.

----------


## Arsenal

> No mentions of Jason in TT #27, only a small side note that "Damian got a beatdown from ex-mentor Red Hood" in the Annual.


That’s a shame, Glass is really dropping the ball on this RH is Damian’s mentor storyline

----------


## Sergard

> Thats a shame, Glass is really dropping the ball on this RH is Damians mentor storyline


Maybe Jason will have an reappearance later on (I still want to see him and Crush interact). Now I just hope that RH:O will take up the thread of the mystery box and reveal its secret.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Dz38OHBX4AEG2Fr.jpg




> Desk shot. To borrow a catch phrase- Don7make him angry. You wouldn’t like him when he’s angry.


https://twitter.com/thatpetewoods/st...11221252640770

No change to the old costume after all.

----------


## Sergard

> Dz38OHBX4AEG2Fr.jpg
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/thatpetewoods/st...11221252640770
> 
> No change to the old costume after all.


Wasn't it already obvious that Jason still wears his "Mortal Combat" costume? He's wearing it on the RH:O #34 cover.

At the moment I'm cool with keeping the costume. I want to see it with Jason having hair. His buzz cut always seemed to be the biggest problem - And that Woods doesn't seem to be able to draw Jason's face. Every other character looks completely normal. Bruce looked fine in #27, Batwoman looked good in #28/#29 and I can't complain about Solitary, Bunker or Wingman last issue. But Jason ...

On the other hand, I'm still hoping that he'll wear a mask with his "mob boss" suit like on the cover of #33.

Are that Bunker's bricks on the left? And are that Jason's eyebrows or his mask reflecting the light?

----------


## Zaresh

> Are that Bunker's bricks on the left? And are that Jason's eyebrows or his mask reflecting the light?


> Could be. I hope so.
> I think it's the mask eyelid edge. Light source seems to come from front-below.

----------


## Arsenal

The current suit is likely here to stay (bar minor adjustments along the way) for the rest of Jason’s solo run. So probably another arc or so. Doubt we’ll be going into 2020 with it.

----------


## Jackalope89

Jason Todd is basically the poster child for black sheep in DC as a whole (barring Flashpoint, where he somehow became a priest), but, just for speculation, how would he be received in the Marvel universe where far fewer heroes hold to the "no kill" rule?

----------


## Arsenal

I imagine he’d be treated the same as Wolverine before he became everybody’s best friend

----------


## G-Potion

http://m-alejandrita.tumblr.com/post/182947432565

----------


## Sergard

> Jason Todd is basically the poster child for black sheep in DC as a whole (barring Flashpoint, where he somehow became a priest), but, just for speculation, how would he be received in the Marvel universe where far fewer heroes hold to the "no kill" rule?


I don't know a lot about the Marvel universe. So my noob guess is that he would be received like Bucky Barnes or Loki. Or somewhere between Deadpool and Punisher. Although RH isn't (thankfully) comedic enough for Deadpool and hasn't this dark and classic anti-hero drive like Punisher.

----------


## Sergard

redauk0423




And for people who miss Artemis (like I do):

redauk0423

----------


## Sergard

> Better looks at BTAS Red Hood


Someone drew a fanart of Jason in that design:

Nachte



and another one

Nachte

----------


## Arsenal

> redauk0423
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And for people who miss Artemis (like I do):
> 
> redauk0423


That bottom one is amazing.

----------


## Zaresh

> I don't know a lot about the Marvel universe. So my noob guess is that he would be received like Bucky Barnes or Loki. Or somewhere between Deadpool and Punisher. Although RH isn't (thankfully) comedic enough for Deadpool and hasn't this dark and classic anti-hero drive like Punisher.


Bucky is softer (even if still pretty cynical) than Jason, I would say, while, as far as I know, Frank is more violent and prone to kill easily whatever in a very noisy way. I think Jason is in a middle ground, and despite the comedic tone, Wade (Deadpool) is nowadays probably the more close to Jason (or more likely, Jason would be more close to my fave spider, but not so well known to the general audience, Kaine Parker). So I think he would be tolerated, but problematic at times.

----------


## Sergard

an_atagasu




an_atagasu

----------


## Sergard

an_atagasu






vorimar



There is a second part of vorimar's fanart showing Bruce' reaction but I'm not sure if it's a little slash-y or not. You can find the second part following the link above.

----------


## Sergard

bluetost_T

----------


## Sergard

4yottsu

----------


## Sergard

uth69







doctorhojo

----------


## Sergard

lovezaku





mugimhmh830

----------


## dietrich

> an_atagasu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vorimar
> 
> ...


Sadly a very common theme in this fandom.

This is some Great art by the way.

----------


## Jackalope89

Cass is such a good sister.

----------


## Sergard

hian0508






clotdrawing

----------


## Sergard

Nachte: _"Wanted to draw these two in DCAU costume but in my style."_





Nachte (Batboys with Batgirl's domino mask design)




Nachte (little side note: the twitter post also contains slash stuff)

----------


## Sergard

onipilot

----------


## Jackalope89

> Nachte: _"Wanted to draw these two in DCAU costume but in my style."_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nachte (Batboys with Batgirl's domino mask design)
> 
> 
> ...


Why does Jason look to be in his 50s? He's supposed to be younger than Dick.

----------


## kaimaciel

> Someone drew a fanart of Jason in that design:
> 
> Nachte


Why doesn't he have any eyebrows? He's kind of evil looking tbh.

----------


## Sergard

> Why doesn't he have any eyebrows? He's kind of evil looking tbh.


The fanart is based on this figurine. And the figurine doesn't have eyebrows and looks evil.




> Better looks at BTAS Red Hood

----------


## Sergard

> Why does Jason look to be in his 50s? He's supposed to be younger than Dick.


My guess: Artistic choice. The artist has other fanarts of Jason (even in the BTAS Red Hood design) which depict Jason with a more accurate age.

----------


## Sergard

By JJMK (for FADE)
Fade writes: _"@jjmk-jjmk gave me a bunch of Jasons for my college graduation😊😊❤❤❤"_

----------


## Sergard

Should we slow down the schedule of the Jason Todd reread thread? So far no one else has stated an opinion for last week's discussion. Is once a week too much or is everyone else waiting for Jason to have a bigger role? So far everything is very Batman and Killer Croc heavy, Jason has only small appearances.

----------


## Zaresh

> Should we slow down the schedule of the Jason Todd reread thread? So far no one else has stated an opinion for last week's discussion. Is once a week too much or is everyone else waiting for Jason to have a bigger role? So far everything is very Batman and Killer Croc heavy, Jason has only small appearances.


I've been a bit busy lately, so I'm fine with slowing down.

----------


## Aahz

> Should we slow down the schedule of the Jason Todd reread thread? So far no one else has stated an opinion for last week's discussion. Is once a week too much or is everyone else waiting for Jason to have a bigger role? So far everything is very Batman and Killer Croc heavy, Jason has only small appearances.


I would prefer to continue (at least untill the origin is finised), if we start to slow down the project is probably dead.

I read the last issues but didn't really had to say anything about it.

----------


## Sergard

nockuth

----------


## RedBird

nockuth

----------


## Sergard

> I've been a bit busy lately, so I'm fine with slowing down.






> I would prefer to continue (at least untill the origin is finised), if we start to slow down the project is probably dead.
> 
> I read the last issues but didn't really had to say anything about it.


I don't want to leave anybody behind. We are only a few people to begin with.
Losing people because the schedule is too tight is also killing the project. (And I love the project. Reading about pre-crisis Jason and villains that appeared in his run (especially for the first time) is fun - not including the Squid. The Squid was stupid.)

Maybe a good compromise would be to have discussions every other week and about two issues instead of one. So we won't slow down in quantity but everyone has two weeks time to read the issues and to write something.

----------


## Zaresh

> I don't want to leave anybody behind. We are only a few people to begin with.
> Losing people because the schedule is too tight is also killing the project. (And I love the project. Reading about pre-crisis Jason and villains that appeared in his run (especially for the first time) is fun - not including the Squid. The Squid was stupid.)
> 
> Maybe a good compromise would be to have discussions every other week and about two issues instead of one. So we won't slow down in quantity but everyone has two weeks time to read the issues and to write something.


Looks good. Two issues every two weeks, I like it.

----------


## Sergard

Todd Nauck




onipilot

----------


## Jackalope89

Red Hood cat is a Richard to Nightwing cat.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Todd Nauck


I wouldn't mind to see more of Nauck's work starring Jason. 


Here's the full Detective cover

----------


## oasis1313

Everyone looks angry.  Except Zatanna.

----------


## Arsenal

> Everyone looks angry.  Except Zatanna.


Selina looks more amused than pissed imo

----------


## G-Potion

I really like the placement of everybody in this.

----------


## G-Potion

> Red Hood cat is a Richard to Nightwing cat.


This artist's series is great because Jason is such a menace.

----------


## G-Potion

> I don't want to leave anybody behind. We are only a few people to begin with.
> Losing people because the schedule is too tight is also killing the project. (And I love the project. Reading about pre-crisis Jason and villains that appeared in his run (especially for the first time) is fun - not including the Squid. The Squid was stupid.)
> 
> Maybe a good compromise would be to have discussions every other week and about two issues instead of one. So we won't slow down in quantity but everyone has two weeks time to read the issues and to write something.


I've been a bit busy and it's gonna be like this for a few months, but I'll try to catch up. New schedule sounds good.

----------


## G-Potion

http://inkydandy.tumblr.com/post/183...bright-and-fun

----------


## Darkseid Is

Hey everyone. Not sure if I asked this before or not because there's a lot of pages in this thread haha but is Jason Todd's resurrection origin the same as the pre Flashpoit story? Or have they done something different?

----------


## dietrich

> I wouldn't mind to see more of Nauck's work starring Jason. 
> 
> 
> Here's the full Detective cover


These must be Tim-centric issues since we have 2 of him on the cover. No Damian or Cass or Az or Luke but we have Huntress?!

Interesting

----------


## Darkcrusade25

> These must be Tim-centric issues since we have 2 of him on the cover. No Damian or Cass


That's Damian on the left, with his first Robin suit. The only difference is the black on the outside of the cape and hood. The only ones missing are Cass,Azrael and Batwing.

----------


## dietrich

> That's Damian on the left, with his first Robin suit. The only difference is the black on the outside of the cape and hood. The only ones missing are Cass,Azrael and Batwing.


That doesn't look like Damian at all and his 1st suit had a hood still and he didn't use a staff. That is the exact same dude in red robin suit on the opposite side.

----------


## Aahz

> That doesn't look like Damian at all and his 1st suit had a hood still and he didn't use a staff. That is the exact same dude in red robin suit on the opposite side.


Tim never had boots like that.

----------


## dietrich

> Tim never had boots like that.


Maybe it's Timian the robin who saved Alfred's life in Tec 2 issues ago because that creepy guy also wasn't Damian and he didn't have a hood

----------


## Zaresh

> Hey everyone. Not sure if I asked this before or not because there's a lot of pages in this thread haha but is Jason Todd's resurrection origin the same as the pre Flashpoit story? Or have they done something different?


We are not sure.
At first glance, it appears that this time he was resurrected by the pit alone.

But then, he seems to be scared of being buried alive. And the unreliable narrator can be a serious thing with him. So...

----------


## Darkcrusade25

> That doesn't look like Damian at all and his 1st suit had a hood still and he didn't use a staff. That is the exact same dude in red robin suit on the opposite side.


It's Damian lol. Everybody throws Robin a staff thats pretty much a generic Robin weapon at this point despite it being Tim's first. 

The more salty people get about this cover spread the more I love it.

----------


## dietrich

> It's Damian lol. Everybody throws Robin a staff thats pretty much a generic Robin weapon at this point despite it being Tim's first. 
> 
> The more salty people get about this cover spread the more I love it.


I haven't seen a single person get salty about this poster not on here or even on reddit. don't tell me there's more fans moaning and going they took our uniform over this. Damian hasn't taken Tim's staff people relax. Plus that's not Damian.

----------


## Darkcrusade25

> I haven't seen a single person get salty about this poster not on here or even on reddit. don't tell me there's more fans moaning and going they took our uniform over this. Damian hasn't taken Tim's staff people relax. Plus that's not Damian.


Damian had Tim's staff when they promoted DC rebirth. I've seen people on reddit get salty for lack of Cass,Steph(is it steph or Azarel on the cover?) and the fact that Zatanna was used instead of another bat family.

Its definitely Damian, the suit is too close to Damian for it to be Tim,Dick or Jason.

----------


## CPSparkles

> I haven't seen a single person get salty about this poster not on here or even on reddit. don't tell me there's more fans moaning and going they took our uniform over this. Damian hasn't taken Tim's staff people relax. Plus that's not Damian.


Err I think the poster means *you are salty* because Damian isn't there or doesn't have his hood. However this is merely a variant. Damian is not just on the Main cover [in his regular uniform]but has a starring role in this story I struggle to see the salt. 

@Darkcrusade one can be critical without been salty.

more importantly this is a another characters appreciation thread guy's not a salt mine.

----------


## Armor of God

> Damian had Tim's staff when they promoted DC rebirth. I've seen people on reddit get salty for lack of Cass,Steph(is it steph or Azarel on the cover?) and the fact that Zatanna was used instead of another bat family.
> 
> Its definitely Damian, the suit is too close to Damian for it to be Tim,Dick or Jason.


The artist himself clarified that its not Damian, its a new Robin named Grayson Timothy Todd .

----------


## Darkcrusade25

> The artist himself clarified that its not Damian, its a new Robin named Grayson Timothy Todd .


Had me in the first half not gonna lie. 

@CPSparkles i wasn't saying he's salty, i'm saying this cover has other issues in it that made people salty about it, specifically the lack of 3-4 other Batfam.

----------


## Rise

> We are not sure.
> At first glance, it appears that this time he was resurrected by the pit alone.
> 
> But then, he seems to be scared of being buried alive. And the unreliable narrator can be a serious thing with him. So...


More that Lobdell hasn't made up his mind about it than it's an issue about "unreliable narrator ".

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> We are not sure.
> At first glance, it appears that this time he was resurrected by the pit alone.
> 
> But then, he seems to be scared of being buried alive. And the unreliable narrator can be a serious thing with him. So...


Not quite.



This is from Secret Origins 5, and nothing so far has contradicted it.

----------


## Arsenal

Red Hood: Outlaw #30 sold 20,249 issues last month. About 3,770 less than #29 did.

----------


## Sergard

> Red Hood: Outlaw #30 sold 20,249 issues last month. About 3,770 less than #29 did.


I know I should be worried about RH:O but I'm too mesmerized by the pure amount of #1 issues Marvel released in January.

----------


## Zaresh

> More that Lobdell hasn't made up his mind about it than it's an issue about "unreliable narrator ".


I don't know, @Rise. It probably has a lot of Lobdell not wanting to detail it because whatever reason. But I feel like there is still a fine bit of Unreliable Narrator on it.




> Not quite.
> 
> 
> 
> This is from Secret Origins 5, and nothing so far has contradicted it.


OK, this passed my radar unnoticed. I didn't know about it. This is from when, three years ago?

----------


## Zaresh

> I know I should be worried about RH:O but I'm too mesmerized by the pure amount of #1 issues Marvel released in January.





> Red Hood: Outlaw #30 sold 20,249 issues last month. About 3,770 less than #29 did.


Oh, That's not good. Not even with all the #1.

----------


## Arsenal

> I don't know, @Rise. It probably has a lot of Lobdell not wanting to detail it because whatever reason. But I feel like there is still a fine bit of Unreliable Narrator on it.
> 
> 
> 
> OK, this passed my radar unnoticed. I didn't know about it. This is from when, three years ago?


Five. Secret Origins #5 came out in August 2014.

----------


## Zaresh

> Five. Secret Origins #5 came out in August 2014.


I always forget that we're in 2019 already.

----------


## Schumiac

> That doesn't look like Damian at all and his 1st suit had a hood still and he didn't use a staff. That is the exact same dude in red robin suit on the opposite side.


I am pretty sure it is meant to be Damian (simply because they wouldn't use the same character twice), but it is badly drawn and looks too similar to Tim and looks older than Damian should be...

----------


## dietrich

Gleason's tec variant

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Oh boy.

D0S5JzFXgAEPv5I.jpg



> Desk shot: 
> Wait... what?

----------


## Sergard

> Gleason's tec variant


I know that the cover is a reference to this artwork (Batman and Robin #12, also drawn by Gleason). 
But it's still strange to see Jason being smaller than Dick and consequently so much smaller than Bruce.

----------


## G-Potion

> Oh boy.
> 
> D0S5JzFXgAEPv5I.jpg


I wonder where this is. It feels a bit like the Arce of All. His hair in this panel is very similar to the one in UTRH.

----------


## Sergard

> Oh boy.
> 
> D0S5JzFXgAEPv5I.jpg


I'm confused. Is that Jason? He looks younger and less muscled than Woods normally draws him (especially the upper arms).
Could be a flashback but then the suit would be strange.

----------


## Zaresh

> I'm confused. Is that Jason? He looks younger and less muscled than Woods normally draws him (especially the upper arms).
> Could be a flashback but then the suit would be strange.


I think it's the present. He does look more... lean, and less bulky; but that could be a mere inconsistency alongside with the suit (that makes him look less muscular and heavy). I like the hair, and the face here, a lot. Now that I look at it, the hair looks slightly longer than the previous shots too.

I feel a bit bad by saying this but.. He looks pretty handsomey here, despite the scene.

If it's him (and I think he is).

----------


## kaimaciel

> Oh boy.
> 
> D0S5JzFXgAEPv5I.jpg


There are chains in the background and he's injured. Maybe he was captured, tortured and starved? That would explain why he's emaciated, his hair is also longer so that could convey a passage of time.

PS: I also think he looks... more handsome. I like the lean and mean characters.

----------


## oasis1313

It looks like Jason stole a bunch of chains.

----------


## G-Potion

> I know that the cover is a reference to this artwork (Batman and Robin #12, also drawn by Gleason). 
> But it's still strange to see Jason being smaller than Dick and consequently so much smaller than Bruce.


You are not the only one apparently.

ryripeachy.tumblr.com: The height is a lie

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Well, this is random. Freddie Prince Jr. as Red Hood.

----------


## Sergard

> You are not the only one apparently.
> 
> ryripeachy.tumblr.com: The height is a lie



Found another one.

JarrulusX

----------


## Sergard

zumaon




zumaon





sferiolla

----------


## Sergard

Shoucolate




JScullycomics





dori_yagi

----------


## Aahz

> I know that the cover is a reference to this artwork (Batman and Robin #12, also drawn by Gleason). 
> But it's still strange to see Jason being smaller than Dick and consequently so much smaller than Bruce.


He is imo in general often drawn to short. He is for example supposed to be the same height as Artemis, but they usually drew her taller, and he is taller than Batwoman but in her last guest appearance she also looked taller than him.
He is often drawn way shorter than Bruce, and I can't really remember him being visibly draw taller than Dick in any comic.

----------


## Jackalope89



----------


## Sergard

mmhfmmfff





DSASWORLD

----------


## Lirica

> I know that the cover is a reference to this artwork (Batman and Robin #12, also drawn by Gleason). 
> But it's still strange to see Jason being smaller than Dick and consequently so much smaller than Bruce.


I was going to ask about this lol It was my understanding that Jason's supposed to be the tallest (and broadest due to muscle?) of the robins, but I also thought that could've been fanon. Thanks for clarifying.

----------


## gwhh

Is this fact true.  In what issue did this happen?  

https://www.instagram.com/dc24x7/p/B...d=l8hcorlj5q6l

----------


## G-Potion

> Is this fact true.  In what issue did this happen?  
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/dc24x7/p/B...d=l8hcorlj5q6l


Don't think it's canon anywhere. Although in the Future End issue he did say this. Unclear whether it's figuratively or literally.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Is this fact true.  In what issue did this happen?  
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/dc24x7/p/B...d=l8hcorlj5q6l


That's taking at face value certain bits of dialogue from the Future's End issue, that could be read as Jason having immortality and/or a regeneration  factor. We know for a fact he doesn't heals fast though, he needed nearly a month to heal from Batman's beatdown in issue 25.

More teasing from Woods.




> Desk shot: This book is getting weird & it’s a lot of fun.
> 
> Seriously though. The story we’ve got mapped out over the next few months has me feeling that Jason Todd is on track to be one of the most interesting characters in the DCU. Excited to be here for the beginning


https://twitter.com/thatpetewoods/st...93900031561729

----------


## Arsenal

Seems safe to assume that Jason visiting Paris is just a cover and he’s actually going somewhere completely different.

----------


## G-Potion

Every time the team shares their excitement over this book direction, my worries are somewhat eased. And yeah, this looks like Cthulhu, I mean, All Caste. I will be the happiest person if they manage to combine the crime lord and mythical aspects and make it a unique blend for Jason.

----------


## Arsenal

I kind of think that the whole crime lord thing is just a front and he’s gonna be using the resources he gets from it for something else.

----------


## Zaresh

> That's taking at face value certain bits of dialogue from the Future's End issue, that could be read as Jason having immortality and/or a regeneration  factor. We know for a fact he doesn't heals fast though, he needed nearly a month to heal from Batman's beatdown in issue 25.
> 
> More teasing from Woods.
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/thatpetewoods/st...93900031561729


Someone, somewhere, has heard me wishing for more pulp in my RHatO. Maybe some Great Old One heard me. Maybe I'm just lucky the writer is keeping adding stuff I just love.

However it is, oh em geeee, I could die now, just because this feels pulp adventuresque. The problem is, this mix could be a total "No" to other people who don't like to mix their genres. Jason is technically a street level character (as much as Bruce or any other bat or arrow), so...

I'm curious and somewhat excited.

Edit: and Woods just said that he was aiming for that Lovecraft vibe. I feel joyous.

----------


## G-Potion

> Edit: and Woods just said that he was aiming for that Lovecraft vibe. I feel joyous.


So I was right about Chthulu heh. Cool!

----------


## Zaresh

> So I was right about Chthulu heh. Cool!


Very cool  :Big Grin: .
Question now is, when and where does he go through this bizarre adventure. Would it had to do with Essence, or with Bizarro and Artemis' whereabouts, maybe?

----------


## Jackalope89

> Very cool .
> Question now is, when and where does he go through this bizarre adventure. Would it had to do with Essence, or with Bizarro and Artemis' whereabouts, maybe?


Maybe both?

----------


## thebluefeline

> That's taking at face value certain bits of dialogue from the Future's End issue, that could be read as Jason having immortality and/or a regeneration  factor. We know for a fact he doesn't heals fast though, he needed nearly a month to heal from Batman's beatdown in issue 25.
> 
> More teasing from Woods.
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/thatpetewoods/st...93900031561729


That looks like a bizarre Cheshire cat. Maybe a hallucination arc like the Knightmares one in King's run right now?

----------


## JasonTodd428

> Maybe both?


Please, please let it have to do with both. I'd be a very happy reader if it was.

----------


## oasis1313

Jason's book is totally on fire (IMHO).  Congratulations to Jason, who totally deserves it.

----------


## Sergard

retrosand





Any news on the identity of the new Arkham Knight in Detective Comics?

----------


## Sergard

I feel like DC is trolling me.

RH:O #29



Teen Titans #20

Teen Titans #20 explosion.jpg

Silencer #14 (sorry, spoiler)

Silencer #14 explosion.jpg

Why can't they all team up?

----------


## gwhh

How can that statement and/or having those abilites be taking figuratively?  




> Don't think it's canon anywhere. Although in the Future End issue he did say this. Unclear whether it's figuratively or literally.

----------


## Sergard

baskinrobins69





rhdrhd_8975

----------


## Sergard

an_atagasu




Too__ko




Simon_SFA _"A comic book cover I re-drew in the BTAS style to include the awesome Animated Series Red Hood design which #DCCollectibles created for their new action figure line."_

----------


## Jackalope89

Jason, well, at least you know your outfit looks good on women. But, maybe leave that armor to Amazons?

----------


## Zaresh

> Simon_SFA _"A comic book cover I re-drew in the BTAS style to include the awesome Animated Series Red Hood design which #DCCollectibles created for their new action figure line."_


This one is a very cool fanart.

----------


## Jackalope89

> This one is a very cool fanart.


Its okay, just not a fan of how Jason looks so old in it.

----------


## Zaresh

> Its okay, just not a fan of how Jason looks so old in it.


It's because of the concept art they went with. But the art itself, how it mimics the original cover using those other concepts, is cool. I with I could do that, to be honest. I'm not very good at imitating someone else's style.

----------


## Sergard

Some interesting theory about the inside of the mystery box.
I think the theory is possible but it would be very sad.

----------


## Sergard

Oh yes, JJMK is killing it again and again and again. (source)

----------


## Sergard

The finalized cover of RH:O #32. At first, I was a little confused because something seemed different.
Normally, the batlogo in the title is "cut out".
But here, the logo is completely black.
And the title outlines are wider/stronger.

----------


## Aahz

Does anybody know where to find higher resolution version of this?

----------


## Sergard

I've updated the Reread thread. I'll probably write my opinion tomorrow. Especially Detective Comics #526 was interesting. There are so many characters and themes that are still relevant in current Batman comics.

----------


## kaimaciel

Guys, have you heard about this:

RIP DC COMICS - CUTTING THE LINE

----------


## redmax99

> Guys, have you heard about this:
> 
> RIP DC COMICS - CUTTING THE LINE


they already cut the lines from new age of heroes to green arrow and titan

----------


## Arsenal

Yeah, seems like everything that was gonna get cut ha already been cut.

----------


## Aahz

> Guys, have you heard about this:
> 
> RIP DC COMICS - CUTTING THE LINE


I find it wired that they reference the number of comics in December and January in the article, since DC pushed all comics that would have usually been published in the last week of December, one week back to the first week of January, so both month are nor really representative for DCs usual out put.

I don't think that RHatO is immediate danger, since they just changed the direction of the book half a year ago, therefore I think they will let it run a little bit longer.


But I'm wondering if we will soon see some sort of line wide relaunch, similar to the DCYou, once the have finally wrapped up Dooms Day Clock.

----------


## gwhh

Funny

https://www.instagram.com/devine.tra...d=nr7hd1cbk96l

----------


## Sergard

RedHood_bana





ruri0824tby




hian0508 (from last year but I don't think it was posted in the old appreciation thread)








@Aahz: Sorry, I searched for a better resolution of the mentioned UtRH character design. But so far I couldn't find anything.

----------


## G-Potion

That gap in Jason's height though.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Sergard

@G-Potion: The gap is my favorite detail.

More fanarts

mugimhmh830




fade_unlimited




hh_dingdong

----------


## Zaresh

> That gap in Jason's height though.


I know, right? It's a nice touch.

----------


## Sergard

an_atagasu





WonderCatKir




WCotty100




And here's some fun observation about Tim's left hand on Jason Fabok's Detective Comics 1000 Batman universe artwork. It's  a little slash-y (but more on the humorous side). That's why I only post a link (and because I'm too lazy to create a new post).

----------


## Zaresh

> And here's some fun observation about Tim's left hand on Jason Fabok's Detective Comics 1000 Batman universe artwork. It's  a little slash-y (but more on the humorous side). That's why I only post a link (and because I'm too lazy to create a new post).


Ha ha. People sometimes, oh.

----------


## Jackalope89

So, uh, just me or is the forum kind of out of wack right now?

----------


## TheCape

No. I'm having problems too

----------


## Sergard

langbuliang




0022212t




ssk14lemon

----------


## Sergard

DamagedRed





DamagedRed: _"Dead Robins' squad, unite."_




commonmola35

----------


## Sergard

zumaon

----------


## nj06

How old is Jason suppose to be currently?

----------


## Aahz

> How old is Jason suppose to be currently?


Thats not really clear. He is often treated as if he was in his early twenties, but technically he can't be much older than Tim (who is still 16).

----------


## nj06

I figured he would be at least 21. He is old enough to drink alcohol legally in the U.S. right?

----------


## Jackalope89

> I figured he would be at least 21. He is old enough to drink alcohol legally in the U.S. right?


Well, legally, Jason is still dead. So, chances are he's using a fake ID anyway. But 21 would be the legal age.

If Tim is 16 (again), that would make Jason 18-19 years old. But Rebirth/New52 may have bumped Jason's age up a year or two for all I know. And technically, he and Cass are supposed to be within months (or less) of one another as well.

----------


## Aahz

> And technically, he and Cass are supposed to be within months (or less) of one another as well.


That was pre flash point, the new Cass seems to be Tims age or maybe even a bit younger.

----------


## Sergard

I miss adult Cass. Some fanfic writers made her and Jason half siblings (with Cass being older), which doesn't really make a lot of sense because of their different ethnicities, but it was an interesting dynamic to explore. It's different from the romantic Robin and Batgirl dynamic of Dick/Babs or Tim/Steph.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I miss adult Cass. Some fanfic writers made her and Jason half siblings (with Cass being older), which doesn't really make a lot of sense because of their different ethnicities, but it was an interesting dynamic to explore. It's different from the romantic Robin and Batgirl dynamic of Dick/Babs or Tim/Steph.


The real kicker here, is that the two have barely interacted at all.

A number of fanfics have interesting interactions between them that seem like they would fit within comic continuity though.

----------


## Aahz

> I miss adult Cass. Some fanfic writers made her and Jason half siblings (with Cass being older), which doesn't really make a lot of sense because of their different ethnicities, but it was an interesting dynamic to explore.


Shiva was one of the 3 candidates for Jason's biological mother in DitF.

And it is possible that Shiva was originally also only supposed to be half Asian.

Btw. it is kind of strange that they have cast Cass with a fully Asians actress for Birds of Prey, while many of the asian characaters in the TV shows are played by Half Asian actors.

----------


## RedBird

> Does anybody know where to find higher resolution version of this?


Hey Aahz, whilst I didn't find a higher resolution of the image sequenced like that, I did find the separate character models in a slightly higher resolution.
They kinda differ in sizes though, sorry. The teen Robin one is much bigger for some reason, and the red hood one seems like it was originally facing right, as seen here, and must have been reversed in that low resolution image of the character models all together.

----------


## RedBird

I believe those designs are from Jon Suzuki by the way, as are these...




[img]https://***********/www.animationinsider.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/redhoodpose2.jpg[/img]

----------


## RedBird

Judd Winick OG Design



Jon Suzuki Refined Design

----------


## Aahz

Thanks for the images. :Cool:

----------


## Zaresh

RedBird, you're awesome, you're in my Very Cool Book now  :Cool: .

----------


## Jackalope89

> Shiva was one of the 3 candidates for Jason's biological mother in DitF.
> 
> And it is possible that Shiva was originally also only supposed to be half Asian.
> 
> Btw. it is kind of strange that they have cast Cass with a fully Asians actress for Birds of Prey, while many of the asian characaters in the TV shows are played by Half Asian actors.


Talk about quite the switch.

----------


## Arsenal

Jason makes a cameo in DC#9

https://m.imgur.com/a/49xo7j6

----------


## Sergard

> Jason makes a cameo in DC#9
> 
> https://m.imgur.com/a/49xo7j6


What's DC #9?

----------


## Arsenal

> What's DC #9?


Doomsday Clock. 

Atleast, thts where peopel claim those panels are from but I haven’t verified it yet.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

It is Doomsday Clock, that's Gary Frank work.

And chances are, Jason is getting vaporized by Manhattan.

----------


## Sergard

> Doomsday Clock. 
> 
> Atleast, thts where peopel claim those panels are from but I havent verified it yet.


Okay, sorry. I'm stupid. I know Doomsday Clock. But somehow I never realized that DC = Doomday Clock. DC Comics and wordplays ...
What's the black-and-white-stuff between Barbara and Katana? Looks like the back of an animal.
And I see Black Lighting and Katana, so where's Cass and Duke?
I hope the blond girl behind Jason is Spoiler. But I have no idea who the guy behind Black Lighting is. The last time I checked, Azrael had blond long hair.

----------


## Arsenal

> It is Doomsday Clock, that's Gary Frank work.
> 
> And chances are, Jason is getting vaporized by Manhattan.


Yeah, this strike force is nothing more than cannon fodder.

I wonder if Dr M will be retconned as the reason behind Jason’s resurrection. Not in the series obviously, just sometime afterward.

----------


## Sergard

Fade

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Well, Jason only shows up on two panels in Doomsday Clock #9 and as part of the background mobs. Still, if DC is still happening a year in the future of the current DCU, that means Jason will be back into the family and into his old suit by then.

----------


## Caivu

> I hope the blond girl behind Jason is Spoiler. But I have no idea who the guy behind Black Lighting is. The last time I checked, Azrael had blond long hair.


I asked who they were on Twitter.

The woman is Halo. The yellow and red stripes on her suit match. The other guy is apparently Metamorpho.

----------


## Aahz

> The woman is Halo. The yellow and red stripes on her suit match. The other guy is apparently Metamorpho.


Yupp, they are like Katana and Black Lighting founding members of the Outsiders.

----------


## Arsenal

> I asked who they were on Twitter.
> 
> The woman is Halo. The yellow and red stripes on her suit match. The other guy is apparently Metamorpho.


It does make sense that particular squad was a mix of Bats and Bat affiliated people.

----------


## Lirica

> Jason makes a cameo in DC#9
> 
> https://m.imgur.com/a/49xo7j6


I like how Jason looks here.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Dzetoun

> Okay, sorry. I'm stupid. I know Doomsday Clock. But somehow I never realized that DC = Doomday Clock. DC Comics and wordplays ...
> What's the black-and-white-stuff between Barbara and Katana? Looks like the back of an animal.


One would assume it’s supposed to be Bat Cow, although the colors are wrong. Bat Cow is usually depicted as an Ayrshire and that would appear to be a Holstein.

----------


## oasis1313

> One would assume it’s supposed to be Bat Cow, although the colors are wrong. Bat Cow is usually depicted as an Ayrshire and that would appear to be a Holstein.


I thought it might be somebody from the Royal Flush Gang.

----------


## Sergard

> One would assume it’s supposed to be Bat Cow, although the colors are wrong. Bat Cow is usually depicted as an Ayrshire and that would appear to be a Holstein.


Another panel, in which Jason appears alongside everyone else (first contact with Dr M), shows a big dalmatian next to a knight. Google says that's an Atomic Knight. So the black-white-stuff in the Batfamily/Outsiders panel could be the dalmatian. But then the other question arises why Barbara Gordon and Co. have the giant dog on board their little spaceship.

----------


## Sergard

nockuth




nockuth

----------


## Sergard

kirameks (process gif in the comments)

----------


## oasis1313

It shouldn't be that hard for DC colorists to put that white streak in Jason't hair.  If the X-Men can manage to be consistent with Rogue, DC could do it for Jason.

----------


## Jackalope89

Another fanfic, this one taking place in AU Young Justice animated series.

https://archiveofourown.org/works/17...pters/41103026

----------


## Sergard

nockuth





bluetost_T

----------


## Schumiac

> Another panel, in which Jason appears alongside everyone else (first contact with Dr M), shows a big dalmatian next to a knight. Google says that's an Atomic Knight. So the black-white-stuff in the Batfamily/Outsiders panel could be the dalmatian. But then the other question arises why Barbara Gordon and Co. have the giant dog on board their little spaceship.


This panel? That is supposed to be Dalmatian? Looked like a cow to me...

----------


## Sergard

> This panel? That is supposed to be Dalmatian? Looked like a cow to me...


Yes, that panel. And Google says it's a dog. And yes, it looks like a cow.

----------


## Schumiac

Weird... And yeah, makes one wonder why the giant dog would be aboard the Batfam ship... Guess they gave the knight a lift.

----------


## G-Potion

> nockuth


I wonder if it's how the artist decided to cut off the image or that Jason lost an arm.

----------


## Sergard

Pete Woods: _"Desk Shot: Oswald and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day."_

----------


## Sergard

mmhfmmfff

----------


## Sergard

Simon_SFA: _"My own version of the Arkham Knight drawn in the Batman Animated Series style"_

----------


## Schumiac

> mmhfmmfff


any chance someone knows Korean and can translate all that? :/

----------


## Sergard

I tried Google Translator. But it was a complete mess. Sorry.

Another fanart that mixes Jason's current costume, Arkham Knight, white streak in the hair, fox ears, Jason being a cute kid and Nightwing being a mean cheek pincher:

Shiro

----------


## Schumiac

aww is that a tear in his eye? and he does look ready to punch Dick... Wouldn't blame him...

----------


## Sergard

Maybe this interests some of you (found on Bleedingcool). That volume should include all pre-crisis appearances of Robin Jason in Teen Titans.


"New Teen Titans Omnibus Vol. 4 by Marv Wolfman and George Perez
$99.99 20 oz | 12 per carton On sale Nov 26, 2019 | 800 Pages | 978-1-4012-8930-0



THE NEW TEEN TITANS, one of the top-selling comics of the 1980s, is collected in a new Omnibus hardcover.
In this fourth massive collection of the hit 1980s series from acclaimed writer Marv Wolfman, team member Lilith ascends to godhood and takes up residence on Olympus, home of the Greek gods of myth. Then, the team investigates a 50-year-old cold-case murder and crosses paths with the Omega Men. And as the Crisis on Infinite Earths begins, Starfire is called home to the planet Tamaran to be wed to a member of the military–but instead leads her people in an effort to overthrow the forces that control the planet.
Collects New Teen Titans #10-31, New Titans Annual #1-2 and a story from Omega Men #34."

----------


## Sergard

This is a cute tumblr post. It associates the Robins with a bird counterpart.
And Jason is a so-called scarlet robin. Just look at the white forehead. Fun fact: the bird mainly lives on Australia. And where does Ma Gunn come from (at least post-crisis)? Exactly, Australia.

----------


## dietrich

> This is a cute tumblr post. It associates the Robins with a bird counterpart.
> And Jason is a so-called scarlet robin. Just look at the white forehead. Fun fact: the bird mainly lives on Australia. And where does Ma Gunn come from (at least post-crisis)? Exactly, Australia.


What about the Nightwing bird?

----------


## Schumiac

> This is a cute tumblr post. It associates the Robins with a bird counterpart.
> And Jason is a so-called scarlet robin. Just look at the white forehead. Fun fact: the bird mainly lives on Australia. And where does Ma Gunn come from (at least post-crisis)? Exactly, Australia.



Oh I love that, especially the Australia reference... Makes me think, if DC creators were half as devoted, enthusiastic and prone to doing some research like the fans we could have such wonderful stories...

----------


## Sergard

> What about the Nightwing bird?


Indian robin. Probably chosen for its blue colors.
There are so many different kinds of robins. Fitting for so many different kinds of Robins.  :Big Grin:

----------


## Sergard

UluzCutieswards





TERLELAHS

----------


## dietrich

> Indian robin. Probably chosen for its blue colors.
> There are so many different kinds of robins. Fitting for so many different kinds of Robins.


Love it [didn't even notice the blue when I 1st looked at your post]. Love when Fans seek these stuff out and apply them to the characters. That's dedication

----------


## kaimaciel

JJMK is the gift that keeps on giving to this fandom!

tumblr_po5u40Q6Kg1wvpvsso1_1280.jpg

----------


## G-Potion

Aww the one with Bizarro is probably my favorite of the bunch.

----------


## Sergard

WCotty100




komieci




komieci

----------


## oasis1313

> JJMK is the gift that keeps on giving to this fandom!
> 
> tumblr_po5u40Q6Kg1wvpvsso1_1280.jpg


Is this guy a pro--and if not, how come?

----------


## Eto

> Well, Jason only shows up on two panels in Doomsday Clock #9 and as part of the background mobs. Still, if DC is still happening a year in the future of the current DCU, that means Jason will be back into the family and into his old suit by then.


Yep, I can't wait for the old suit!

----------


## Eto

> I'll create a discussion thread.



Just wondering, isn't that the whole point of THIS thread we're on right now?

----------


## Sergard

bluetost_T





bluetost_T

----------


## G-Potion

There's no preview for next issue yet? :/

----------


## Arsenal

> There's no preview for next issue yet? :/


I haven’t seen previews for anything coming out tomorrow.

----------


## Arsenal

Also, woods posted this on Twitter today:
193AEC47-E8D0-4767-BCC6-1B5BD4EEF14B.jpg
_Experimenting_

Its probably nothing but on the odd chance that it’s something I figured I should post it here just in case.

----------


## oasis1313

> Also, woods posted this on Twitter today:
> 193AEC47-E8D0-4767-BCC6-1B5BD4EEF14B.jpg
> _Experimenting_
> 
> Its probably nothing but on the odd chance that it’s something I figured I should post it here just in case.


I'd like to hope it's Bizzaro coming back; I've really missed him.

----------


## Arsenal

> I'd like to hope it's Bizzaro coming back; I've really missed him.


The DC Universe was definitely a much better place with Biz in it.

----------


## Sergard

thatpetewoods: _"Desk Shot: Oswald Cobblepot sleeps with the fishes."_

----------


## Sergard

redjack_036




zumaon





Devanainjl

----------


## Arsenal

Calling it now: Penguin's unexpected ally is going to be a bat and the issue ends with that person double crossing him.

----------


## Sergard

I wonder if we'll see Jason with an actual penguin at some point. I mean, he's taking over Penguin's business - and the Penguin does have real penguins running around somewhere.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I wonder if we'll see Jason with an actual penguin at some point. I mean, he's taking over Penguin's business - and the Penguin does have real penguins running around somewhere.


Jason- No Dog, those aren't squeeky toys.
Dog- *whines*
Jason- Nope. But the fat, bald one you can pee on if you want.
Dog- *barks with joy*

----------


## Aahz



----------


## Sergard

zumaon

----------


## Sergard

> [...]


My favorite part of the whole fanart is Jason mentioning George Orwell.

----------


## Jackalope89

> My favorite part of the whole fanart is Jason mentioning George Orwell.


Yep. Biggest badass of the Robins is also a huge book nerd. 

Pure awesomness.

----------


## Vinsanity

Man, would it be so sucky when Lobdell is off Jason.

He's been killing it. I'm glad he brought in Bunker too.

----------


## dietrich

> 


How long did it take him to do those laces on his boots? No wonder he's late.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au8xRIgNxjE

UTRH was rated by Watch Mojo as number 8 of "Most Adult Hero Cartoons", the acknowledge that if the ranking were quality alone, it would be higher but since the metric is adult content, URTH lacks some.

----------


## Sergard

> Yep. Biggest badass of the Robins is also a huge book nerd. 
> 
> Pure awesomness.


Jason and books/book references, that's my jam.

----------


## Sergard

Pete Woods: _"Desk Shot: Fill in your own evil giggle."_

----------


## Aahz

> 


What is he referencing here?

----------


## Sergard

> What is he referencing here?


"Moby Dick" by Herman Melville. It's the first sentence of the book.

----------


## Zaresh

> What is he referencing here?


Moby-Dick, maybe?

----------


## oasis1313

> "Moby Dick" by Herman Melville. It's the first sentence of the book.


From these panels, it looks like Jason is very well-read.  It'd make a good story; maybe street kid Jason hung out in the Gotham Library a lot.

----------


## Sergard

gtstmtsm





syusyusyu1515

----------


## oasis1313

> Jason and books/book references, that's my jam.


Jason shouldn't worry about Batman needs.  I think Jason is an amazing guy because he still wants to fight for justice after all he's been through--he don't need no steekeen' Batman.

----------


## Zaresh

> gtstmtsm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syusyusyu1515


Well, that was fast.

----------


## oasis1313

CHeck out lil' Jason with a cheezeburger!

----------


## G-Potion

All that missing is the umbrella. Hope the team didn't miss how well received it was.

----------


## Sergard

zumaon




bluetost_T





bluetost_T

----------


## Sergard

Marcus To

----------


## Jackalope89

Ah, Jason. More concerned about a crowd way down below seeing them, then being encouraged by their cheers.

----------


## Sergard

> Ah, Jason. More concerned about a crowd way down below seeing them, then being encouraged by their cheers.


More concerned about a crowd than having an arrow stuck in his shoulder.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

RED HOOD: OUTLAW #35
written by SCOTT LOBDELL
art by PETE WOODS
cover by CULLY HAMNER
variant cover by YASMINE PUTRI
Last time he was in Gotham City, Jason Todd pretended to be a master criminal in the underworld. This time it’s for real! With Suzie Su scared of what her new boss at the Iceberg Lounge might be capable of and Bunker questioning his own loyalty to Jason, the Red Hood’s house of cards could be headed for a collapse. And if that isn’t bad enough, Jason comes face to face with the teacher who taught him everything he knows about death and life, and Ducra isn’t at all happy about this latest twist in Jason’s story…
ON SALE 06.12.19
$3.99 US | 32 PAGES
FC | RATED T+
This issue will ship with two covers.
Please see the order form for details.




Who expected to see Ducra again?

----------


## TheCape

> More concerned about a crowd than having an arrow stuck in his shoulder.


Pff... you are not doing your job well, if you don't get an arrow stuck in your shoulder once in a while (at least that's how it works in the DC Universe :Stick Out Tongue: )

----------


## Zaresh

> RED HOOD: OUTLAW #35
> written by SCOTT LOBDELL
> art by PETE WOODS
> cover by CULLY HAMNER
> variant cover by YASMINE PUTRI
> Last time he was in Gotham City, Jason Todd pretended to be a master criminal in the underworld. This time it’s for real! With Suzie Su scared of what her new boss at the Iceberg Lounge might be capable of and Bunker questioning his own loyalty to Jason, the Red Hood’s house of cards could be headed for a collapse. And if that isn’t bad enough, Jason comes face to face with the teacher who taught him everything he knows about death and life, and Ducra isn’t at all happy about this latest twist in Jason’s story…
> ON SALE 06.12.19
> $3.99 US | 32 PAGES
> FC | RATED T+
> ...


Hmmmm.... Someone is going  to be scolded, it seems.

Very good covers, again. Beautiful both of them.

----------


## Ssstammerer

From what issue is this?

----------


## Arsenal

Wonder what Jason does in issue 33 & 34 that’ll put so many people on edge.

----------


## G-Potion

I'm equally scared and excited.

----------


## G-Potion

> From what issue is this?


We Are Robin #7. Part 4 of Robin War.

----------


## Sergard

Yasmine Putri's cover is beautiful, as always. I hope she stays as variant cover artist for RH:O.
I'm looking forward to Ducra and Essence. It's nice to see some people who care about Jason and who reach out to him.
Suzie and Bunker seem to be concerned too. I think they (and Suzie's sisters) are a good addition to Jason's team.
But I'm still wondering what Wingman's motives are.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Yasmine Putri's cover is beautiful, as always. I hope she stays as variant cover artist for RH:O.
> I'm looking forward to Ducra and Essence. It's nice to see some people who care about Jason and who reach out to him.
> Suzie and Bunker seem to be concerned too. I think they (and Suzie's sisters) are a good addition to Jason's team.
> But I'm still wondering what Wingman's motives are.



And it would be nice to know WHO Wingman is.

----------


## Sergard

> And it would be nice to know WHO Wingman is.


And it would be nice to know how old Wingman is. In #32 he looks way younger than in #31. Probably just the artist.
Although I wouldn't mind young Wingman. He and Night look cute together.
God, I love the Su sisters. They are all so different but still stick together and look out for each other.
And I hope Bunker gets a boyfriend. Maybe I've watched Disney's Aladdin trailer too often but now I have that scene stuck in my head of Bunker and his boyfriend flying on a carpet (that is supported by Bunker's bricks).

----------


## Sergard

moon115115




Vorimar




kwus_0

----------


## Sergard

M-Alejandrita





macydraws




wnsdls

----------


## G-Potion

> kwus_0


My, isn't this adorable!  :Big Grin:

----------


## kaimaciel

> RED HOOD: OUTLAW #35
> written by SCOTT LOBDELL
> art by PETE WOODS
> cover by CULLY HAMNER
> variant cover by YASMINE PUTRI
> Last time he was in Gotham City, Jason Todd pretended to be a master criminal in the underworld. This time it’s for real! With Suzie Su scared of what her new boss at the Iceberg Lounge might be capable of and Bunker questioning his own loyalty to Jason, the Red Hood’s house of cards could be headed for a collapse. And if that isn’t bad enough, Jason comes face to face with the teacher who taught him everything he knows about death and life, and Ducra isn’t at all happy about this latest twist in Jason’s story…
> ON SALE 06.12.19
> $3.99 US | 32 PAGES
> FC | RATED T+
> ...


I gotta admit. I hope they're not taking Jason into the full-on villain again. He seems to be going through a dangerous path if even Suzie, Bunker and now Ducra are showing up. Hopefully, it won't be that serious.

----------


## Sergard

It's a lucky coincidence that the reread thread currently discusses (Batman #360 and) Detective Comics #527. That's the issue in which (pre-crisis) Jason calls Bruce/Batman "father" the first time.

Detective Comics #527 Jason Batman Father 1.jpg

Detective Comics #527 Jason Batman Father 2.jpg


And now compare that to the last time Jason called Bruce father, or better said "Dad", in RH:O #32.

Red Hood Outlaw #32 Jason Todd Batman Dad.jpg

That's some family drama right there.

----------


## CPSparkles

Okay this totally OCC but I saw it and it melted my heart so I had to post it





https://doc-squash.tumblr.com

I know Damian was shown having Nightmares when he 1st came back from being dead so likely Jason did too. Might still.

----------


## Sergard

I think Jason had a nightmare in the New52 run after being attacked by the Joker. Ducra was in the dream too but I can't remember if she was just part of the dream or if she really was there.

And there are some fanfictions about Jason having nightmares.
Here's one I was able to find quickly: Animal Magnetism by Badwolf36
Maybe the fanfic is already on the list of recommended fanfics in the OP but it doesn't hurt to link the story one more time.
It's a cute oneshot with Jason, Damian, Alfred the cat and Titus.

----------


## Arsenal

Jason should definitely have some pretty bad PTSD. Cant imagine being murdered than digging yourself out of your own grave to not be traumatizing. 

Hell. RHATO #25 should be pretty traumatic too considering what went down

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I think Jason had a nightmare in the New52 run after being attacked by the Joker. Ducra was in the dream too but I can't remember if she was just part of the dream or if she really was there.
> 
> And there are some fanfictions about Jason having nightmares.
> Here's one I was able to find quickly: Animal Magnetism by Badwolf36
> Maybe the fanfic is already on the list of recommended fanfics in the OP but it doesn't hurt to link the story one more time.
> It's a cute oneshot with Jason, Damian, Alfred the cat and Titus.



It wasn't a nightmare, it was an hallucination he had while under induced coma after nearly having his face burned off. Ducra there was just a manifestation of his psyche, and so it were the glowing tattoos or Jason being able to summon the swords at will. But obviously, Tynion completely missed that.

----------


## Lirica

> Okay this totally OCC but I saw it and it melted my heart so I had to post it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://doc-squash.tumblr.com
> 
> I know Damian was shown having Nightmares when he 1st came back from being dead so likely Jason did too. Might still.


May be OOC, but still cute. Thanks for sharing.  :Stick Out Tongue: 




> Jason should definitely have some pretty bad PTSD. Cant imagine being murdered than digging yourself out of your own grave to not be traumatizing. 
> 
> Hell. RHATO #25 should be pretty traumatic too considering what went down


Yeah, that makes sense. Did no one tell him of Sanctuary (I can't remember if he knew what it was from the last RHatO Annual)? I thought by the time of HiC it had been around for 5 years. I get that he wouldn't go, but still, Bruce should've told him, no?

----------


## Jackalope89

> May be OOC, but still cute. Thanks for sharing. 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, that makes sense. Did no one tell him of Sanctuary (I can't remember if he knew what it was from the last RHatO Annual)? I thought by the time of HiC it had been around for 5 years. I get that he wouldn't go, but still, Bruce should've told him, no?


Bruce was about to toss him into Arkham, I think. After beating him up.

----------


## Sergard

Marcio Takara





mcmramcm




an_atagasu

----------


## Arsenal

> Bruce was about to toss him into Arkham, I think. After beating him up.


Probably. Nothing says I want whats best for you son like sending him to his murders clubhouse for rehabilitation. 



> May be OOC, but still cute. Thanks for sharing. 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, that makes sense. Did no one tell him of Sanctuary (I can't remember if he knew what it was from the last RHatO Annual)? I thought by the time of HiC it had been around for 5 years. I get that he wouldn't go, but still, Bruce should've told him, no?


I didnt get the impression Jason knew about it but Roy was pretty vague about it too.

----------


## Arsenal

Redhood: Outlaw #31 sold 19,546 copies last month

----------


## Sergard

zumaon




ubnom_dc




ubnom_dc

----------


## Eto

> Redhood: Outlaw #31 sold 19,546 copies last month


 :Frown: 
Dang, the sales are dropping.
I’d thought it would be still well above 25k?!

----------


## kaimaciel

> Redhood: Outlaw #31 sold 19,546 copies last month


Oh no...  :Frown:

----------


## Sergard

dontotss






moon115115

----------


## G-Potion

> Redhood: Outlaw #31 sold 19,546 copies last month


Not good. I wonder if it's the direction that's disliked or because it took too long for the story to get going.

----------


## Aahz

> Not good. I wonder if it's the direction that's disliked or because it took too long for the story to get going.


It is basically back to the numbers it had before the change of direction.

----------


## Sergard

By Yasmine Putri. Seems like we'll get another beautiful variant cover by her in the future. Maybe the RH:O #36 variant.

----------


## Lirica

> Bruce was about to toss him into Arkham, I think. After beating him up.


Somehow that would probably make it worse.




> I didnt get the impression Jason knew about it but Roy was pretty vague about it too.


True. Still, it feels like it should've been brought up with him at some point prior, since it's a place that's supposed to have been in existence for a while.

----------


## Sergard

optimissie





redjack_036




kurachi93

----------


## Jackalope89

> optimissie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> redjack_036
> 
> 
> ...


That first one is cute. I know New52 already did it, but I wouldn't mind seeing Jason, Artemis, and Biz get kidiefed for an arc or so. 

And why is it that fan artists remember that Jason is bigger, but not actual comic artists?

----------


## Schumiac

> That first one is cute. I know New52 already did it, but I wouldn't mind seeing Jason, Artemis, and Biz get kidiefed for an arc or so. 
> 
> And why is it that fan artists remember that Jason is bigger, but not actual comic artists?


well, at least when it comes to the covers, I think it is more of an aesthethic decision where they just want them to line up neatly in age scale. So the eldest is also the tallest and the youngest is the shortest...

----------


## G-Potion

> That first one is cute. I know New52 already did it, but I wouldn't mind seeing Jason, Artemis, and Biz get kidiefed for an arc or so.


Now that you mentioned it, I want to see it too.

----------


## ithoughtslashmeanthorror

> *+ ithoughtslashmeanthorror* 
> That alias always makes me smile.
> Now, about their work, they are writing a long term series, with multiple long works, centered towards their version of the Batverse (a mix of Fox' Gotham, the Arkham games and the actual comics): "See how deep the bullet lies" https://archiveofourown.org/series/922881
> It's pretty good and it's mostly about Bruce and Jason healing and bonding as father and son. Lots of drama and angst, and delivers some heavy violence from time to time; but a Teen targeted series overall.


I too enjoy my alias.

----------


## Zaresh

And I enjoy your work.

(I didn't know slash and slasher were different things until Interned happened to me. That's why I always smile: I see myself in your alias)

I need to remember to post new lists soon.

----------


## Sergard

Pete Woods: "_Desk Shot: Aw. Fwashbacks._"

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

So Jason is getting that memory back?

----------


## RedBird

> So Jason is getting that memory back?


I was just wondering about that as well.
Unless its Bruce recalling the memory this time, or even Alfred.

----------


## Sergard

Beautiful panel. Bruce looks happy and Jason totally relaxed and safe.

Edit: Looks a little bit like Bruce has the same smirk as Alfred in the original panel by Rocafort.

----------


## G-Potion

I've missed this moment.

----------


## Schumiac

I kind of love that Jason has a red nose...

----------


## Zaresh

> Pete Woods: "_Desk Shot: Aw. Fwashbacks._"


As they say "somewhere": HNNNNGG!!

That some dangerous level of cuteness.

----------


## Sergard

Fade




no_CH_ka




no_CH_ka

----------


## Sergard

> As they say "somewhere": HNNNNGG!!
> 
> That some dangerous level of cuteness.


Now I hope that the new arc ends with Jason catching the flu and getting pampered at the manor.
(And with Artemis and Bizarro returning.)

----------


## Arsenal

Pete Woods: _Jason, you mad bro?_
568CDE7B-34C9-41F4-9070-DF5C2B095EE5.jpg

----------


## RedBird

ninalinovna





Jason & Dog

----------


## Sergard

Pete Woods: "_Drawing my favorite DC character tonight. Gotham._"

----------


## Sergard

ChrisJonesArt




moonepaws




JayKorre

----------


## G-Potion

> ninalinovna
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jason & Dog


Ooh this one is lovely!

----------


## oasis1313

DC had better not hurt that dog.  I have two border collies and I'm a total pushover for them.

----------


## Sergard

> DC had better not hurt that dog.  I have two border collies and I'm a total pushover for them.


DC better not hurt any dog (or cat, or any other innocent living creature). But especially not Dog. I'm already too invested in her. I can't get enough of Jason calling her a good girl and caring for her well-being in general. I loved that little moment in #32 when Jason called Dog back from the door because he knew that Batman would burst through it any second and didn't want Dog to get hurt.

----------


## G-Potion

https://twitter.com/uth69

----------


## oasis1313

> https://twitter.com/uth69


That's some big feet.  Size 15?

----------


## G-Potion

Endorsed by perspective?  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## oasis1313

> Endorsed by perspective?


Probably.  It's a great pic (pro or fan-created?), but the first thing you see are feet.

----------


## Jackalope89

Some Jason fanfics I've come across lately (other than ithoughtslashmeanthorror's ongoing).

Come Alive: Takes place in season 3 of Young Justice. Up until the episode where the Outsiders are on Infinity Island. Partially about baby Damian, but most of it is about Jason.
https://archiveofourown.org/works/17...pters/41103026 


Frozen History: The adopted kids of Bruce are all de-aged to 10 (Damian is still 10), with no memories of anything that happened afterwards. Barring certain circumstances (which is explained). Some excellent character interactions between all of them.
https://archiveofourown.org/works/12...pters/27629028 (admittedly, a Bat family one, but some really good character interactions all around).

Finding Jason: AU of Rebirth Red Hood and the Outlaws, with a little girl popping up several years after the Outlaws (barring Starfire) have gone missing. Including Jason. Said girl, Carrie Kelly. A mystery of what happened to them, as in this series, Roy himself has Lian (though she wasn't with them). 3 chapters, but very interesting thus far.
https://archiveofourown.org/works/16...pters/39286078

----------


## RedBird

jjmk-jjmk



_TAKE ME IN, DAD._

----------


## Sergard

> jjmk-jjmk
> 
> 
> 
> _TAKE ME IN, DAD._


That was fast, and it's great as always.



We once talked about drawing together/motivate each other to draw something/exchange information and tips. Are there still people interested in this little "project"?
I'm a complete beginner, so it would be nice if people with drawing experience could give some advice what's the best way to put this plan into action.

----------


## Zaresh

> That was fast, and it's great as always.
> 
> 
> 
> We once talked about drawing together/motivate each other to draw something/exchange information and tips. Are there still people interested in this little "project"?
> I'm a complete beginner, so it would be nice if people with drawing experience could give some advice what's the best way to put this plan into action.


I'm no way a pro, but I guess I can help to some degree.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Some Jason fanfics I've come across lately (other than ithoughtslashmeanthorror's ongoing).
> 
> Come Alive: Takes place in season 3 of Young Justice. Up until the episode where the Outsiders are on Infinity Island. Partially about baby Damian, but most of it is about Jason.
> https://archiveofourown.org/works/17...pters/41103026 
> 
> 
> Frozen History: The adopted kids of Bruce are all de-aged to 10 (Damian is still 10), with no memories of anything that happened afterwards. Barring certain circumstances (which is explained). Some excellent character interactions between all of them.
> https://archiveofourown.org/works/12...pters/27629028 (admittedly, a Bat family one, but some really good character interactions all around).
> 
> ...


If anyone has come across others, go ahead and post them.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

https://twitter.com/thatpetewoods/st...04016293158915

Hmmm, I can't say I like the sound of this.

----------


## Sergard

> I'm no way a pro, but I guess I can help to some degree.


I love your artworks. So your help is more than welcome.  :Smile: 




> If anyone has come across others, go ahead and post them.


I'm surprised that there aren't already a few fanfics about the current events in RH:O. I'd like to read some sweet fics about Jason and Dog.




> https://twitter.com/thatpetewoods/st...04016293158915
> 
> Hmmm, I can't say I like the sound of this.


I like the sound of it. I imagine a literal roller-coaster ride - and Jason fighting some villains in some epic Woods' choreography. Is there even an amusement park somewhere in Gotham?

----------


## Jackalope89

> I love your artworks. So your help is more than welcome. 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm surprised that there aren't already a few fanfics about the current events in RH:O. I'd like to read some sweet fics about Jason and Dog.
> 
> 
> 
> I like the sound of it. I imagine a literal roller-coaster ride - and Jason fighting some villains in some epic Woods' choreography. Is there even an amusement park somewhere in Gotham?


The only one with A dog and Jason that I've come across, is Jason Todd: Collector of Strays. But that dog is an Irish Wolfhound. Not the seeming Pit Bull Terrier that Dog is.

----------


## Zaresh

> I like the sound of it. I imagine a literal roller-coaster ride - and Jason fighting some villains in some epic Woods' choreography. Is there even an amusement park somewhere in Gotham?


Amusement Mile wouldn't be a weird place to set something like that. It's where all these attractions settle.

----------


## G-Potion

I like the sound of it too.  :Smile:

----------


## Sergard

A_sebury



0022212t




yuansushuaige

----------


## Sergard

airair_ii

----------


## adrikito

Detective Comics 1000 Batfamily Portrait:

Attachment 80390

----------


## adrikito

Seems that someone in DC is JasonxBarbara supporter..

detective comics 1000 jason barbara.jpg

----------


## G-Potion

> Detective Comics 1000 Batfamily Portrait:
> 
> Attachment 80390


I swear Jason's figure looks almost like a woman.

----------


## G-Potion

> Seems that someone in DC is JasonxBarbara supporter..
> 
> detective comics 1000 jason barbara.jpg


Oh god. Just no.

----------


## RedBird

> Seems that someone in DC is JasonxBarbara supporter..
> 
> Attachment 80391


I think it may be Jason Bard they are referring to.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I think it may be Jason Bard they are referring to.


Bah! The only Jason worth mentioning in Gotham is Todd. Jason Todd.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I think it may be Jason Bard they are referring to.


Doubt it, is Johns writing it and it would be very unusual to have a non Batfamily member in an issue that it's all about bats.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Also, Hush is the next animated film

https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/03...oice-cast-news

I wonder if they'll keep Jason role.

----------


## Arsenal

Based on how her recent solo has made it clear how she feels about killers, I’m not sure how you could even make a babs & Jason romance work

----------


## Sergard

> I think it may be Jason Bard they are referring to.


I hope so too.

Jason/Babs is on the same creepiness level as Bruce/Babs, just the other way around. Wasn't Barbara originally roughly ten years older than Jason?
Nevermind that Barbara has dated Dick in the past. And therefore Barbara dating one of the other Robins should be a big no-no.
Jason deserves some romance outside of the batfamily - and definitely outside of Dick's club of ex-girlfriends.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I hope so too.
> 
> Jason/Babs is on the same creepiness level as Bruce/Babs, just the other way around. Wasn't Barbara originally roughly ten years older than Jason?
> Nevermind that Barbara has dated Dick in the past. And therefore Barbara dating one of the other Robins should be a big no-no.
> Jason deserves some romance outside of the batfamily - and definitely outside of Dick's club of ex-girlfriends.


Maybe pre-crisis. But in New52/Rebirth, Babs seems to be the same age as Dick, and Jason has already been shown as a legal adult. What the actual age gap is right now, I don't know. Besides which, the Arkham games had Babs and _Tim_ as a couple. Let that sink in.




> Based on how her recent solo has made it clear how she feels about killers, I’m not sure how you could even make a babs & Jason romance work


Somehow, I doubt Jim Gordon has never killed anyone in the line of duty. Same for Jason Bard. Especially in a city like Gotham. And in New52, there were some hints about it, here and there.



Not saying I'm for the ship or anything, but its not like there's a lack of precedence.

----------


## Aahz

> Wasn't Barbara originally roughly ten years older than Jason?


Pre crisis roughly 14, post crisis 9 or 10. 
Preflashpoint, the Batgirl around Jason's age (and the only one who never dated one of his brothers) was Cass.




> Jason has already been shown as a legal adult.


That would make him at least 5 years older than Tim, which doesn't really make much sense.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Pre crisis roughly 14, post crisis 9 or 10. 
> Preflashpoint, the Batgirl around Jason's age (and the only one who never dated one of his brothers) was Cass.
> 
> That would make him at least 5 years older than Tim, which doesn't really make much sense.


18 is legal age of adulthood in the US. And Tim, in Young Justice at least, is supposed to be 16. So, not that far-fetched.

----------


## adrikito

> I think it may be Jason Bard they are referring to.


Jason bard?

----------


## Aahz

> 18 is legal age of adulthood in the US. And Tim, in Young Justice at least, is supposed to be 16. So, not that far-fetched.


Several comics implied imo that Jason is old enough to drink alcohol legally, which would afaik imply that he is at least 21.

----------


## Arsenal

> Maybe pre-crisis. But in New52/Rebirth, Babs seems to be the same age as Dick, and Jason has already been shown as a legal adult. What the actual age gap is right now, I don't know. Besides which, the Arkham games had Babs and _Tim_ as a couple. Let that sink in.
> 
> 
> 
> Somehow, I doubt Jim Gordon has never killed anyone in the line of duty. Same for Jason Bard. Especially in a city like Gotham. And in New52, there were some hints about it, here and there.
> 
> 
> 
> Not saying I'm for the ship or anything, but its not like there's a lack of precedence.


I’m aware of the new 52 stuff, just saying that what she said in her Rebirth solo makes it more difficult to make it work

----------


## Jackalope89

> Several comics implied imo that Jason is old enough to drink alcohol legally, which would afaik imply that he is at least 21.


"Legally" for Jason? Eh, I don't know. Legally, until this latest arc, Jason was legally dead. Heavily implying he used faked IDs to go into said bars. Not to mention, trying to get Tim into them.

----------


## Zaresh

> Maybe pre-crisis. But in New52/Rebirth, Babs seems to be the same age as Dick, and Jason has already been shown as a legal adult. What the actual age gap is right now, I don't know. Besides which, the Arkham games had Babs and _Tim_ as a couple. Let that sink in.


If I recall correctly, Arkham Tim is the same age as Jason.

Anyways, in my case, I don't have a problem with shipping two characters with a relatively long age gap. Not if both are mature enough, mature adults, which would be the case here now, in current in-universe time, I think (with Jason being 20-ish and Babs a few years older). It would be another story if one of them were a minor or childish and naive. But to be honest, in this particular case, I don't like the idea because, once again, Jason doesn't and hasn't liked Barbara that way: she's his older sister-like figure, not a love interest. And again, really, another character from Dick's circle of friends? Not nice, eh.

In any case, it's just a short side story. Maybe if they sell me the idea well enough, I would buy it. But at this point, meh, whatever.

Edit: current age for Tim doesn't make sense at all. Just ignore it and treat him like he's at least 18 (I should be studying French, but here I am).

----------


## Arctic Cyclist

> Pre crisis roughly 14, post crisis 9 or 10. 
> Preflashpoint, the Batgirl around Jason's age (and the only one who never dated one of his brothers) was Cass.
> 
> That would make him at least 5 years older than Tim, which doesn't really make much sense.


Tim being 16 at the start of the new 52, during Batman and Robin Eternal, at the start of Rebirth, and currently in Young Justice doesn't make sense. Don't try to figure out anyone's age in relation Tim. That way lies madness.

Go by this: Zero Year has Jason trying to tell Talia he's 15, and she pegs him at 12, which was the age he was when his mom died (you'll recall she was alive in that issue). In universe, five (10?) years passed between zero year and the start of Red Hood and the Outlaws in the new 52. One of the joys of having a single writer for most of the series means continuity holds true. Now use Damian to figure out time: he was almost 11 when he died, was dead almost a whole year on page, spent a confirmed year globetrotting with Maya, and was twelve when he met Jon, is now approaching 14. So Jason was 17/18 when hanging with Kori and Roy and playing in magic pools of water with Ra's around Damian's death. 18/19 during Eternal and the family road trip to see Darkseid. 19/20 while rocking it with Roy. 20/21 during Robin War and the second Eternal, 21/22 at the start of Rebirth. A year plus has passed on page in Rebirth, including a complete school year and some so he's now 23/24. 

Easy peasy. For the record Tim was 11 on page in Zero Year and has been 16 ever since. No explanation given despite his regular reporting his age is 16 and everyone else aging around him. Just accept that he's 16. Now and forever. In a few years, Damian will be older than him, which will be great as one of the subtle running jokes throughout Rebirth is people being confused by the fact that Damian ages like a normal person and yet Tim, Bruce, and the rogues including Selina are incapable of aging despite the regular occurrences of birthdays and Christmases.*

*Some people, actually most people, get a hella lot more interesting as they get older. It's why DC writers apparently keep pitching teenage and adult Damian stories, and why we got a glimpse of 30 something Jason in Mother Panic. There are characters that are stagnant, and then there are characters we get a Disney montage of them growing up to adults and we roll right into their meaningful adventures and misadventures. Jason got the Disney montage. Having just reread No Man's Land #0 (the true secret origin of Batcow) where Talia went all Mu Shu on Bruce, I'm pretty sure Jason is a Disney Princess.

...He's Belle. With a dash of Mulan and Aladdin, but mostly Belle. Rereading all the pre 9/11 Talia appearances just confirms that she's not sure what Disney movie she's a side character in, but she knows she's one of them and lobbying to be Mu Shu instead of one of the fairies. And that Belle was her favorite princess because she likes books, hence Jason being her favorite Robin.

----------


## Schumiac

> I think it may be Jason Bard they are referring to.


Yeah, I think that is who they are referring to... 




> Doubt it, is Johns writing it and it would be very unusual to have a non Batfamily member in an issue that it's all about bats.


It was a passing reference during a conversation with Jim Gordon to a Jason who is Barbara's husband. Could be anyone. Makes more sense for it to be Jason Bard, someone Barbara already had a serious relationship with *spoilers:*
 Jason, Tim, Dick weren't part of the story, actually.... 
*end of spoilers*


As for a possible Jason/Barbara ship. Just no. I am not a Dick/Babs shipper but I think Jason should be getting his own, original relationship with someone not associated with Dick or Bat-family, maybe even a brand new person. Them all dating the same people would be very much like a page out of those teenage dramas with angsty triangles. Not to mention, icky. And would also make one wonder if Jason has a subconcious obsession with Dick and replacing him... Don't need or want any of that. It is a big universe. Surely they can all find other people to interact with and fall in love with...

----------


## Jackalope89

> Yeah, I think that is who they are referring to... 
> 
> 
> 
> It was a passing reference during a conversation with Jim Gordon to a Jason who is Barbara's husband. Could be anyone. Makes more sense for it to be Jason Bard, someone Barbara already had a serious relationship with *spoilers:*
>  Jason, Tim, Dick weren't part of the story, actually.... 
> *end of spoilers*
> 
> 
> As for a possible Jason/Barbara ship. Just no. I am not a Dick/Babs shipper but *I think Jason should be getting his own, original relationship with someone not associated with Dick or Bat-family, maybe even a brand new person.* Them all dating the same people would be very much like a page out of those teenage dramas with angsty triangles. Not to mention, icky. And would also make one wonder if Jason has a subconcious obsession with Dick and replacing him... Don't need or want any of that. It is a big universe. Surely they can all find other people to interact with and fall in love with...


Oh, I fully agree. And what's more, Jason getting his Rebirth Outlaws in Bizz and Artemis, 2 otherwise minor characters that rarely see much use in the Super and Wonder books, really works. And whether people ship Jason and Artemis or not, the three do make quite the little family either way. Not only giving Jason his own, original group, but also expanding upon Bizz and Artemis as characters too.

----------


## Aahz

> Also, Hush is the next animated film
> 
> https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/03...oice-cast-news
> 
> I wonder if they'll keep Jason role.


Based on the cast it will be part of their animated universe, and iirc it was said that Tim and Jason were never Robin in that universe.
I also wonder how they will deal with Harold, who was also not introduced in that Universe (or any other media outside of comics) sofar.

----------


## Aahz

> "Legally" for Jason? Eh, I don't know. Legally, until this latest arc, Jason was legally dead. Heavily implying he used faked IDs to go into said bars. Not to mention, trying to get Tim into them.


Yeah but neither Tim in BRE nor Damian in the last Teen Titans Annual made any remarks about Jason not being old enough,and now he owns the iceberg launch. 




> Go by this: Zero Year has Jason trying to tell Talia he's 15, and she pegs him at 12, which was the age he was when his mom died (you'll recall she was alive in that issue). In universe, five (10?) years passed between zero year and the start of Red Hood and the Outlaws in the new 52.


I think he new 52 starting ages are pretty much out of the window at this point. Based on that Dick was iirc also 16 wgen he became Robin, but post Rebith it seem they have pretty much gone back to the original starting age.

----------


## Sergard

thatwhitebox

----------


## Arctic Cyclist

> Yeah but neither Tim in BRE nor Damian in the last Teen Titans Annual made any remarks about Jason not being old enough,and now he owns the iceberg launch. 
> 
> I think he new 52 starting ages are pretty much out of the window at this point. Based on that Dick was iirc also 16 wgen he became Robin, but post Rebith it seem they have pretty much gone back to the original starting age.


Rebirth has taken all sense of continuity and just basically all sense of character development for everyone but Jason and discarded it. That said, I believe the missing ten years are Dick's time as Robin which means Jason was still about 18/19 when the new 52 started. As far as I can tell, except for things pertaining to Kingverse and Tim's age, everything else introduced in Batman and Company comics sans Catwoman and Damian's search for Martha's pearl has managed to stay canon. So Jason was about 18 five years ago in universe. From there, we can tell that he's 23/24 and has figured a work around the being legally dead to legally owning a night club.

If it helps, remember that Future's End was set five years from Damian's death at age 10, and Tim was officially 21 and a bartender at the start of it. Since we're approaching five years from Damian's major death, we know that Tim is....16....and Jason is about 23/24ish and ready to put his MBA from Al Ghul U to use, maybe even his BA in comparative lit.

----------


## Aahz

> That said, I believe the missing ten years are Dick's time as Robin which means Jason was still about 18/19 when the new 52 started.


Dick wasn't Robin that long, some of the years have to go to the other Robins.


Btw. I finally read the last Batman Beyond Arc, it's kind of disappointing that while they reference Death in the Family, and even have flashback with him as Red Hood, we don't learn anything about whats going on with him in the Beyond Era. Interestingly they also established that Gotham did become better after the "Death" of the Joker.

----------


## Arctic Cyclist

> Dick wasn't Robin that long, some of the years have to go to the other Robins.
> 
> 
> Btw. I finally read the last Batman Beyond Arc, it's kind of disappointing that while they reference Death in the Family, and even have flashback with him as Red Hood, we don't learn anything about whats going on with him in the Beyond Era. Interestingly they also established that Gotham did become better after the "Death" of the Joker.


Of course! Dick was Robin between ages 12 and 18. That leaves 5, maybe more for the other two. 

Maybe in thirty five years Jason has finally killed the Joker, attended some excellent therapy, and has finally achieved the wholesome future he had in Flashpoint.

----------


## Zaresh

I read Beyond sparsely. Who gets to kill the Joker in this version?

----------


## Aahz

https://doc-squash.tumblr.com/

----------


## Aahz

> I read Beyond sparsely. Who gets to kill the Joker in this version?


*spoilers:*
He was thought to have died years ago in a crash during a fight with Bruce, and died because of a hear attack in the final issue of the arc.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## G-Potion

> https://doc-squash.tumblr.com/


The feels!! And I love how the room had more stuff after each panel.

----------


## Zaresh

> *spoilers:*
> He was thought to have died years ago in a crash during a fight with Bruce, and died because of a hear attack in the final issue of the arc.
> *end of spoilers*


Oh, ok. That was unexpected. Thanks, @Aahz.

----------


## Sergard

> Btw. I finally read the last Batman Beyond Arc, it's kind of disappointing that while they reference Death in the Family, and even have flashback with him as Red Hood, we don't learn anything about whats going on with him in the Beyond Era. Interestingly they also established that Gotham did become better after the "Death" of the Joker.


At least we can still pretend that Jason is fine and alive in the Batman Beyond universe. Maybe he quit vigilantism after Gotham had finally become a better place and left to start a new life somewhere else - with Artemis and Bizarro as his little family.

----------


## Sergard

Some interesting info from the Deathstroke #42 preview about Black Mask in Teen Titans:

*spoilers:*
Black Mask is indeed Roman Sionis. So there is a big plot hole between RHatO and TT. And apparently Roman has a kid although he stated in RHatO that he doesn't.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Aahz

> *spoilers:*
> Black Mask is indeed Roman Sionis. So there is a big plot hole between RHatO and TT. And apparently Roman has a kid although he stated in RHatO that he doesn't.
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
They are also referencing something that happened in Under the Red Hood, which makes also contradicts the interaction between Jason and Black Mask in Rebirth.

Btw. I'm wondering if Black Mask original Origin (the one were he drops on his head as a newborn and is bitten by a rabid Racoon) is still canon  :Stick Out Tongue: 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Sergard

bluetost_T




moon115115

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

When something happens in a book that contradicts RHATO, is safe to assume that RHATO is being ignored and that chances are, it will ignored in return when/if Lobdell visits that plot point. 


Anyone following Wondercon? I'm wondering if Jason will be mentioned somewhere.

----------


## G-Potion

> moon115115


Ooh this is a spectacular piece.

----------


## Zaresh

> Ooh this is a spectacular piece.


Agreed very, very, very much. It's superb.

----------


## Sergard

> When something happens in a book that contradicts RHATO, is safe to assume that RHATO is being ignored and that chances are, it will ignored in return when/if Lobdell visits that plot point. 
> 
> 
> Anyone following Wondercon? I'm wondering if Jason will be mentioned somewhere.


I'm a little disappointed. TT did so good in referencing current events from RHatO. TT showed Jason in his new costume, shortly after it was officially introduced in RHatO. And the TT Annual looked like it took place shortly before or after the finale of the last RH:O arc. Wasn't it also mentioned, that TT and RHatO (at least for the Black Mask arc) shared the same editor?


What is Wondercon?

----------


## Sergard

mondaijo





3c_N1




jhj42014

----------


## Arsenal

Fixed the helmet for you, Starks
87470955-933A-425B-8E75-9CE7728ED76F.jpg
Credit: Dexter Soy

----------


## Sergard

Finalized cover of RH:O #33.

----------


## Sergard

zumaon




glitter_dc

----------


## Sergard

Dave Fowler

----------


## oasis1313

Who likes the feedbag and who likes the full facial mask?  I like the full mask, myself.

----------


## Sergard

> Who likes the feedbag and who likes the full facial mask?  I like the full mask, myself.


I like both.
The "feedbag" can be very aesthetically pleasing when combined with a nice suit, like on the cover of RH:O #33.

----------


## Arsenal

> Who likes the feedbag and who likes the full facial mask?  I like the full mask, myself.


I prefer the full mask but I’ve come to like both.

----------


## Sergard

I found a cute and short fanfic: Another Sick Day by brunchywrites. Jason gets sick and calls for help.

----------


## Sergard

The_Howl_Comics/Allen Alonzo

----------


## G-Potion

He already has a dog but now I want a cat also.

----------


## Jackalope89

> He already has a dog but now I want a cat also.


He would name it "Cat".

----------


## Sergard

> He would name it "Cat".


That made me laugh harder than expected. Sounds like Jason. On the other hand, Batman calls Catwoman "Cat" when he's in a romantic mood. So please no "Cat" for Jason.
I want Jason to get a second dog, because I'm curious what he'll name her/him.

----------


## Jackalope89

> That made me laugh harder than expected. Sounds like Jason. On the other hand, Batman calls Catwoman "Cat" when he's in a romantic mood. So please no "Cat" for Jason.
> I want Jason to get a second dog, because I'm curious what he'll name her/him.


Or Jason would do it partly just to irk Bruce....

Selina: Bat.
Bruce: Cat.
Cat: Meow?

----------


## Sergard

Albi

----------


## Sergard

Another sweet fanfiction by brunchywrites: Chapter One of I Once Read..., a slice-of-life story with young Jason and Bruce. The first chapter takes place before Jason becomes Robin.

----------


## Jackalope89

What I want to see eventually, is all the Bat Kids grown up, and with kids of their own that followed in the family footsteps, and Bruce as a tsundere sort of grandpa. 

And yes, I want to see a world with Jason having kids. With who, a matter for debate. Still want to see it though.

----------


## Arctic Cyclist

> That made me laugh harder than expected. Sounds like Jason. On the other hand, Batman calls Catwoman "Cat" when he's in a romantic mood. So please no "Cat" for Jason.
> I want Jason to get a second dog, because I'm curious what he'll name her/him.


Oh, but that's perfect. Not only would he get to troll Bruce and Selina, who he's historically *not* a shipper of and was extremely bothered by as Robin, but it would also be a Breakfast at Tiffany's reference. Jason and Holly are similar enough characters (more so book than movie) that he could give the speech about settling down and naming the cat perfectly. He's also a big enough nerd to get into the raging debates about whether Audrey Hepburn was perfect or if Capote was right and Marilyn Monroe was the correct Holly Golightly. 

Jason is the sort to have feelings about Breakfast at Tiffany's and write ten page papers with forty peer review and orginal source references contrasting the book and movie, and examining the erasure of the many gender ambiguous and homosexual characters.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Oh, but that's perfect. Not only would he get to troll Bruce and Selina, who he's historically *not* a shipper of and was extremely bothered by as Robin, but it would also be a Breakfast at Tiffany's reference. Jason and Holly are similar enough characters (more so book than movie) that he could give the speech about settling down and naming the cat perfectly. He's also a big enough nerd to get into the raging debates about whether Audrey Hepburn was perfect or if Capote was right and Marilyn Monroe was the correct Holly Golightly. 
> 
> Jason is the sort to have feelings about Breakfast at Tiffany's and write ten page papers with forty peer review and orginal source references contrasting the book and movie, and examining the erasure of the many gender ambiguous and homosexual characters.


I know Jason is a big book nerd. Particularly for classics. But I never pegged him for much of a movie guy. Even for adaptations of books he enjoys.

----------


## Aahz

> I know Jason is a big book nerd. Particularly for classics. But I never pegged him for much of a movie guy. Even for adaptations of books he enjoys.


Pre crisis he was more into movies (but iirc not classic), there is iirc story were he teamed up with Bullock (who was also a big fan of classic movies back than) to crack the Film Freak case before Batman and Gordon could.




> Oh, but that's perfect. Not only would he get to troll Bruce and Selina, who he's historically *not* a shipper of and was extremely bothered by as Robin,


That was also pre crisis.

----------


## oasis1313

> I know Jason is a big book nerd. Particularly for classics. But I never pegged him for much of a movie guy. Even for adaptations of books he enjoys.


I think that's one of the cool things Lobdell does--he keeps doling out little things we can discover about Jason.

----------


## Sergard

Jason is mentioned in the Justice League #21 preview.
Well, not THIS Jason but the Jason from another universe/alternate reality. But it's not much. I don't think we'll actually see that Jason in Justice League - which is a shame. Because Dick looks like he's in his late thirties/early forties. And I love me some well-aged Jason.

----------


## Sergard

komieci




salmokin





nockuth

----------


## Sergard

lindatart

----------


## Sergard

lindatart

----------


## Jackalope89



----------


## Sergard

bakeiruu





MartiniJordan1




moon115115

----------


## Sergard

JulianLynnn




Tom Nguyen has some Red Hood sketches on his instagram but I don't know how to embed them here, so here are the links: Link 1, Link 2 and Link 3.

----------


## Sergard

(The OP was too long. So I outsourced the fanfic recommendations.)

*Some great fanfic authors*

List of recommended fanfic authors
List of recommended fanfics of the genres/about the topic:
Buried, Burnt and Risen from the AshesFamily MattersGhosts and Urban FantasyJason is another kind of heroJason becomes his own manTime Travel and Aging / De-agingTraditional fantasy

----------


## Jackalope89

> (The OP was too long. So I outsourced the fanfic recommendations.)
> 
> *Some great fanfic authors*
> 
> List of recommended fanfic authors
> List of recommended fanfics of the genres/about the topic:
> Ghosts and Urban FantasyJason is another kind of heroJason becomes his own manTime Travel and Aging / De-agingTraditional fantasy


May want to fix the "Jason becomes his own man" link.

----------


## Sergard

> May want to fix the "Jason becomes his own man" link.


Thanks. Fixed.  :Big Grin:

----------


## Arctic Cyclist

> Pre crisis he was more into movies (but iirc not classic), there is iirc story were he teamed up with Bullock (who was also a big fan of classic movies back than) to crack the Film Freak case before Batman and Gordon could.
> 
> That was also pre crisis.


Post crisis he's still a book reader, and considering Capote is one of the 20th centuries more important writers and the first author of a true crime novel, it's highly probable Jason would have read him and related to book Holly, who's a very different and more complex character than movie Holly. It's improbable to believe that any Robin hasn't read in In Cold Blood. Heck, I've never met anyone who is in law enforcement or went to into law period who didn't read In Cold Blood as a teenager. (Fun fact and way off topic, Dill from To Kill a Mockingbird was based on Capote, which makes him canon gay.)

You're right about Selina, considering that post crisis Bruce didn't date or really even flirt while Jason was Robin and Selina wasn't really portrayed as a major love interest outside of her own book until Loeb. She's mentioned whenever girlfriends were ranked through the 90s, and shows up in Legacy, Contagion, and a few issues of Gotham Knights because Hugo Strange ships it, but she's not Shondra Kingsolver, Vesper Fairchild, Sasha Bordeaux, Vicki Vale, Talia al Ghul, Wonder Woman, or Silver St Cloud level of love interest until Jeph Loeb started pushing the ship. So Jason would have had no investment either way in the relationship as it doesn't really impact him...up until she leaves Bruce at the rooftop.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> And idea that didn’t pan out...


https://twitter.com/thatpetewoods/st...16461830148096

----------


## Arsenal

Guess that’s the thing he was talking about. It’s a shame because that design looks nice.

----------


## Zaresh

> (The OP was too long. So I outsourced the fanfic recommendations.)
> (... more quote)


If I find some time next weekend, I'll add a new list with fics that deal with Jason and his relationship with his family (and Talia). I've been meaning to do this for a while, but I'm just too busy with a lot of IRL stuff.

----------


## G-Potion

> https://twitter.com/thatpetewoods/st...16461830148096


Shame. I'd have loved to see those blades in action.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Eh, it looks too much like Dexter's Red Ronin Pitch.

----------


## Sergard

Seems like there'll be more Robin Jason action in Titans season 2.
https://comicbook.com/dc/2019/04/02/...eries-regular/

----------


## Jackalope89

> Seems like there'll be more Robin Jason action in Titans season 2.
> https://comicbook.com/dc/2019/04/02/...eries-regular/


Makes me wonder who he'll become friends with (aside from Dick, maybe). And if he's cooled off a bit since he paralyzed that one cop (that was a bit far for his character in this series).

----------


## Sergard

> Makes me wonder who he'll become friends with (aside from Dick, maybe). And if he's cooled off a bit since he paralyzed that one cop (that was a bit far for his character in this series).


I didn't even know that he paralyzed a cop. I didn't follow the first season but there wasn't any talk about that event either. (Which is surprising. Because there are enough Jason Todd haters that would use such information to spread more hate. Because people nowadays seem to care more about characters they hate than characters they love.)

Jason could be friends with Rose and Joseph Wilson.

----------


## Zaresh

> I didn't even know that he paralyzed a cop. I didn't follow the first season but there wasn't any talk about that event either. (Which is surprising. Because there are enough Jason Todd haters that would use such information to spread more hate. Because people nowadays seem to care more about characters they hate than characters they love.)
> 
> Jason could be friends with Rose and Joseph Wilson.


I don't know why, but I suspect they are going to try to make some sort of triangle between him, Rachel and Gar, for a while until Jason dies. Maybe not romantic, but emotional at least.

----------


## Arsenal

I keep see people speculating that next season Jason and Rose will become a thing. Once Rose outright rejects Slade to stay on the team, Slade will either outright kill Jason or hand him over to Joker.

----------


## Sergard

> I keep see people speculating that next season Jason and Rose will become a thing. Once Rose outright rejects Slade to stay on the team, Slade will either outright kill Jason or hand him over to Joker.


I've seen those rumors too. The idea sounds stupid. Why should Slade do that?
I'd rather see another fan favorite idea: Jason somehow becoming Slade's apprentice.

----------


## Sergard

Fade and JJMK

----------


## RedBird

> And if he's cooled off a bit since he paralyzed that one cop (that was a bit far for his character in this series).


I mean, agreed, that sequence went too far, but I didnt hear anything about paralysis? When was that mentioned?

----------


## Jackalope89

> I mean, agreed, that sequence went too far, but I didnt hear anything about paralysis? When was that mentioned?


I simply assume, as Jason broke the cop's back. That's not something you just walk away from.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I don't know why, but I suspect they are going to try to make some sort of triangle between him, Rachel and Gar, for a while until Jason dies. Maybe not romantic, but emotional at least.


Uh. Rachel, the actress anyway, is 13. While the actors for both BB and Jason are in their 20s. And Jason's character is about 20 as well.

----------


## Zaresh

> Uh. Rachel, the actress anyway, is 13. While the actors for both BB and Jason are in their 20s. And Jason's character is about 20 as well.


Hence why I said not romantic. Emotional bonds don't need to be romantical for bearing conflict. And in any case, I think they already hinted at something else that could bloom eventually (far in the future) between Rachel and Gar in season one. But to be honest, I think it will be a not romantic conflictive triangle. Even if some of them could hold some unrequired feelings (because the show is heavy in drama).

I don't know, just my wild guessing.

----------


## oasis1313

> I've seen those rumors too. The idea sounds stupid. Why should Slade do that?
> I'd rather see another fan favorite idea: Jason somehow becoming Slade's apprentice.


Huh.  Slade should become Jason's friggin' little apprentice.

----------


## Schumiac

> Eh, it looks too much like Dexter's Red Ronin Pitch.


for me it looks too much like Azrael

----------


## Aahz

> Uh. Rachel, the actress anyway, is 13. While the actors for both BB and Jason are in their 20s. And Jason's character is about 20 as well.


I really would have preferred if they had cast teen actors for all 3 of them.

Is Jason as a character really supposed to be 20?

----------


## Sergard

> https://twitter.com/thatpetewoods/st...16461830148096


I'm surprised how good the colors work together.
But yeah, it would have been a little strange (and unfair) if Soy's pitch had been rejected but Woods' design had gotten a pass.
Especially since the question arises why Jason should even wear that kind of style.
It looks like the costume is inspired by ancient Chinese warrior armor (a culture Jason has no connections with) - and it looks even less safe than Jason's current costume.
The material is useless against enemy attacks but all that fabric and co. looks heavy. So Jason is slowed down.

----------


## G-Potion

> Eh, it looks too much like Dexter's Red Ronin Pitch.


Still it's some thing we could have had. Wonder why both didn't get approved.

----------


## Aahz

It reminds me more of those guys, who were running arround in a few Bat-Comics in the New52 era.



But I thing it could be a cool costume, if Jason would join the All Cast again for some time.

----------


## numberthirty

> I've seen those rumors too. The idea sounds stupid. Why should Slade do that?
> I'd rather see another fan favorite idea: *Jason somehow becoming Slade's apprentice.*


While I don't know about "Apprentice", it did occur to me that Slade's own children along with Jason would be the start of an "Anti-" Titans team.

That said, no telling where they are going with it. What seems to be a different costume might not mean anything.

----------


## Agent Z

Jason will be a series regular on Titans.

https://comicbook.com/dc/2019/04/02/...eries-regular/

----------


## Zaresh

At this point, I'm starting to wondering if they're going to try something completely different with the Titans in this universe. Similarly to what Marvel has done with the MCU. Some nods and general concepts, but that's all. It seems that there are so many characters and concepts banned from what they are allowed to use in the shows, and when not, they are already doing some changes that kind of feel original (like puting Cyborg in he DP, even if as a guest member, for a long time), that maybe... Maybe this is the start of a new team of Titans we didn't see until know, with new dynamics. And maybe Jason will finally have his own Titans' generation. I don't know, but I doubt they would put a regular who would have a big part, as an antagonist or a villain to the main cast, with how episodic the first season was, and how many characters they already have for the second season to work with.

----------


## Sergard

> While I don't know about "Apprentice", it did occur to me that Slade's own children along with Jason would be the start of an "Anti-" Titans team.
> 
> That said, no telling where they are going with it. What seems to be a different costume might not mean anything.


I don't like the term "anti". It suggests that Jason's team would be solely defined by, and therefore dependent on, being the opposite of the Titans.
For example, the Outlaws aren't an anti-Titans team. The teams are different, sure, but both follow their own path independently and save innocent people on the way.
How would an anti-Titans team even look like? Especially since Jason and Dick actually have a lot in common.

----------


## Sergard

mori_YJ2





bluetost_T

----------


## Arsenal

Pete Woods- Deskshot: Isnt it hot in that mask?
E43DFF92-AE07-46B8-B4EA-F5068A548662.jpg

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Desk Shot: Isn't it hot in that mask?

----------


## Arsenal

Any guess whose taking off his mask? Essence?

----------


## Jackalope89

Maybe his assassin mommy, Talia?

But, probably Essence.

----------


## Sergard

Yeah, Essence would be my guess too.
The highlights in the hair create the illusion that Jason has a white streak.
That makes me wonder if we'll one day get a story arc in which the white streak will return.

----------


## numberthirty

> I don't like the term "anti". It suggests that Jason's team would be solely defined by, and therefore dependent on, being the opposite of the Titans.
> For example, the Outlaws aren't an anti-Titans team. The teams are different, sure, but both follow their own path independently and save innocent people on the way.
> How would an anti-Titans team even look like? Especially since Jason and Dick actually have a lot in common.


Personally, don't see it that way.

Take Outlaws. They wouldn't be brought into existence in what it looks like the context could be this season(obviously, I'm assuming at least a couple of things there).

As for what Dick and Jason have in common, Dick didn't seem to be on board with what Jason did to those cops.

While "Anti" might not be the best way to put it, it certainly feels like a line that Dick is on one side of and Jason is on the other. Since it seems like some of the new characters might be as well, it seems like a possiblity.

----------


## Sergard

Kenneth Rocafort _"...OUTLAW... work in progress #DCUNIVERSE #dccomics"_



And here's the instagram post with the following hashtags:
#mitografia #kennethrocafort #dc #dccomics #comicbook #art illustration #illustrator #redhood #redhoodandtheoutlaws #jasontodd #batman #robin #gotham #design #designer #style #outlaw #outlaws #scottlobdell #cover #coverart #drawing #draweveryday #dailydrawing #sketch #copic #copicmultiliner #dcuniverse

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Interesting! 

Whatever he's working on with Lobdell will happen after issue 35 since we know Woods is working on that right now.

----------


## G-Potion

Nice. Look forward to seeing Rocafort's take on Jason's new look.

----------


## Sergard

Maybe Rocafort is drawing the next annual?

----------


## Arsenal

> Maybe Rocafort is drawing the next annual?


That's what I'm thinking.

----------


## Zaresh

Awesome :3 But wouldn't it be too soon for an annual already? Last one was with #25 and, iirc, that one came sooner that it should have, right?

----------


## Sergard

ziding_DC




oodondonoo

----------


## Jman27

> At this point, I'm starting to wondering if they're going to try something completely different with the Titans in this universe. Similarly to what Marvel has done with the MCU. Some nods and general concepts, but that's all. It seems that there are so many characters and concepts banned from what they are allowed to use in the shows, and when not, they are already doing some changes that kind of feel original (like puting Cyborg in he DP, even if as a guest member, for a long time), that maybe... Maybe this is the start of a new team of Titans we didn't see until know, with new dynamics. And maybe Jason will finally have his own Titans' generation. I don't know, but I doubt they would put a regular who would have a big part, as an antagonist or a villain to the main cast, with how episodic the first season was, and how many characters they already have for the second season to work with.


Wonder if they will change his target from batman to the titans when he eventually dies and becomes Red Hood. Cause they wont really be able to use Batman that much ala Season finale and Dick gotta get off his hate boner with him. I like Jason as he wis way more brutal than Dick but Dick isn't that too far off. Also I hope the season improves in writing too cause the way Doom Patrol has been this season and how I look forward to each episode I want Titans to do the same.

----------


## Arsenal

> Wonder if they will change his target from batman to the titans when he eventually dies and becomes Red Hood. Cause they wont really be able to use Batman that much ala Season finale and Dick gotta get off his hate boner with him. I like Jason as he wis way more brutal than Dick but Dick isn't that too far off. Also I hope the season improves in writing too cause the way Doom Patrol has been this season and how I look forward to each episode I want Titans to do the same.


Plus if Titan's Dick has killed before and Jason-Dick have a better relationship than they do in the comics, it'll make more sense that Jason was pissed at Dick/titans for not avenging him.

----------


## Sergard

Titans' Jason deserves his own TV series. It's sad that they can't really use Batman. I feel like for example Batman: The Cult could work well as a low-budget production.

----------


## Zaresh

I already said the day that episode was out that Titans Jason was too hard for me, but that, given the mood of the series, and how honestly not much morally better Dick was in the very end, I can deal with this version just fine: it's fitting. Dick, on the other hand... I guess they are going for the amending, atoning and rforming for Dick, turning him into a way less violent hero after whatever will happen next season; but it still makes me a bit, I don't know, uncomfortable, that they made him like that. Dick sure has a temper, can be petty too, and I could see him leaving someone to die if pushed; but asking Kori for burning that building, with the thugs still in there, eh...

Edit: if we're doing The Cult, I want an art direction that can catch my eyes :3.

----------


## Jackalope89

Been watching Supernatural season 1 lately, and I can see why Jensen Ackles was chosen to voice Jason in Under the Red Hood, and has been a big fan ever since. Jensen's character, Dean Winchester, is practically Jason Todd, with his brother Sam, practically Dick Grayson (though, Dean is the older of the two). Half the time I'm watching it, I want to call Dean "Jason" and half expect other characters to call him that too.

----------


## G-Potion

> Been watching Supernatural season 1 lately, and I can see why Jensen Ackles was chosen to voice Jason in Under the Red Hood, and has been a big fan ever since. Jensen's character, Dean Winchester, is practically Jason Todd, with his brother Sam, practically Dick Grayson (though, Dean is the older of the two). Half the time I'm watching it, I want to call Dean "Jason" and half expect other characters to call him that too.


Yeah they have a lot in common, and I've seen a few crossover fics bringing them together or merging them into one person. I stopped watching the show around season 9 so I don't know how much Dean's changed since then.

----------


## Sergard

> Awesome :3 But wouldn't it be too soon for an annual already? Last one was with #25 and, iirc, that one came sooner that it should have, right?


I don't know. The first annual was published at the end of August 2017, the second at the end of August 2018.
So I would expect the third annual at the end of August 2019. I feel like that's close enough for Rocafort to start drawing.
Especially since an annual has more pages than a regular comic issue.
But maybe the third annual gets split like the second one. If I recall correctly, the part with Artemis and Bizarro was drawn by another artist.

----------


## Sergard

mrkokkuri-chan

----------


## Rac7d*

if Jason got a spinoff on DCU

----------


## Sergard

SamnDoesArt





no_CH_ka

----------


## Sergard

poison-basil

----------


## redmax99

> I don't know. The first annual was published at the end of August 2017, the second at the end of August 2018.
> So I would expect the third annual at the end of August 2019. I feel like that's close enough for Rocafort to start drawing.
> Especially since an annual has more pages than a regular comic issue.
> But maybe the third annual gets split like the second one. If I recall correctly, the part with Artemis and Bizarro was drawn by another artist.


 
Annuals week is in May,July and October this year

----------


## Sergard

> Annuals week is in May,July and October this year


Good to know. Thanks for the information.  :Smile: 
I'm not familiar with the strange voodoo magic that DC uses to decide in which months annuals are released.
I hope the third annual of RHatO is published in July because I hope that Biz and Arty will return in the issue. And I don't want to wait until autumn for that.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Annuals are released on each month with five weeks, those are meant to fill the schedule of those fifth weeks.

How they decide what books get annuals? That's anyone's guess.

----------


## Sergard

zumaon

----------


## Sergard

Pete Woods: _"I think @RexLokus and I accidentally established that Jason tucks to the right. #DickCanon"_

----------


## G-Potion

That's something I don't need to know  :Stick Out Tongue:  
But the image is interesting it looks like he's about to get shot?

----------


## Arsenal

Looks like he’s gotten himself in a bit of a pickle.

----------


## Sergard

Maybe Jason should consider returning to his old costume. It gives more protection than the current one.
Although it probably wouldn't help that much more when being targeted by a bunch of snipers.

----------


## Sergard

an_atagasu

----------


## Jackalope89



----------


## Sergard

mugimhm830

----------


## Sergard

fishtre (This artist is pure gold.)

----------


## Sergard

fishtre

----------


## Aahz

I just saw the up coming Injustce 2 Action figure for Red Hood, looks pretty especially for just 19,99$.

----------


## Sergard

fishtre



fishtre (According to tags these are Dick and Jason.)

----------


## Sergard

fishtre



fishtre

----------


## Sergard

fishtre (Jason is a fox. The artworks are from last year but I can't recall seeing them in the old appreciation thread and such beautifulness needs to be celebrated)

----------


## Sergard

fishtre



fishtre (more outlines of Robin Jason fighting in the linked post)

----------


## Sergard

fishtre





fishtre

----------


## Sergard

fishtre

----------


## Sergard

Okay, here's the last one. I've even seen that artwork before on twitter but never could find the original source. The other teams of Dick, Tim and Damian can be found in the linked post.

fishtre

----------


## Sergard

inkydandy (Jason Todd, Kyle Rayner and Donna Troy)






inkydandy

----------


## Zaresh

Damn... So many new arts. And new artists. A true goldmine.

----------


## Sergard

zumaon




bluetost_T

----------


## Sergard

Fade





uth69

----------


## Sergard

Red Hood Fan Series SEASON 2 OFFICIAL TRAILER (2019)

----------


## G-Potion

Damn is fishtre a new Jason fanartist? Already so many cool stuff with interesting themes. Thanks for posting, I wouldn't know about them otherwise because I've been lazy logging in on tumblr.

----------


## G-Potion

> 


Well-dressed. I mean, I already know this, but seeing all these outfits in one place really reinforces it.

----------


## G-Potion

Another one by uth69 that's pretty cool too.

----------


## Zaresh

Well, here I am, with a new list of fics. This time, this "*Family matters*" list lists (duh) a series of fics regarding Jason and his relationships with the batfam members, the batfam as a whole set and his friends. The gimmick that all of them share is that said ship is more familial than romantic in nature. As always, feel free to address any interesting work (with a few lines summarising said work's highlights).

+ Jason Todd: The Not-So-Outlaw, by *@GoAwayOlivia*. Already recommended in another list, but added here again because it's a work that mostly revolves around family feels and bonding. Jason makes a new life after a traumatic incident, and his family starts to reconnect with him despite his efforts. It involves the whole batfam and the first Outlaws line. Mature readers and gen ships.

+ Another one of the already mentioned fics—But most of the Batman: Arkham Compendium, by *@LananiA3O*, is heavy in the familial theme and half of the conflict is driven by Jason reconnecting with his arkhamverse family and recovering from his trauma with their help. An Arkham verse that springs from Arkham Knight. Mature content, gen ships.

+ And yet another one which revisits these lists is the See how deep the bullet lies ongoing series, by *@ithoughtslashmeanthorror*. A sort-of Arkham verse that springs from the events of Arkham Knight. The first half of the series is Bruce and Jason bonding and healing each other (with some Selina in there); and the second half is the rest of the family being thrown to the still unstable relationship with their own problems to mix and mess with. Teen audience (canon typical violence), and general ships.

+ 6645 Charlotte Street, by *@audreycritter*. Jason and Bruce having a moment of realisation and connecting with each other when Jason falls sick. It's a one-shot that I remember reading and liking a lot (but I don't remember much more). Teen audience, gen ship.

+ I don't remember much of this one either. Sometimes Goodbye's the Only Way, by *@KatastrophicTodd*. I think it revolved a lot around Talia, Cass and Bruce, and was a family drama through and through. But besides that... It's marked in my bookmarks as a fave, so I though of it a nice read at least, I guess. Gen audience, gen ships (but I think it was more like teen audience, if I recall correctly).

+ Another one of the regular suspects is Jason Todd - Collector of Strays, by *@whatomen*. Jason building a new family step by step, while dealing with his old one. There isn't a love interest who drives this story (unlike what happens with From Now On, by *@little_wayward_bird*, which is very romance centred), so I choose to add this one in this list. Mature audience, gen ships.

+ Verdant, by *@Cerusee*, is pure family drama. It's a bit hit and miss, it drags the plot now and them; but if you want family feels and bonding story, you will have it and it's a nice read too. Talia drowns Jason in the Pit and then takes him to Bruce. So Jason, Bruce and Talia dynamics are the center of the deal. It says gen audience, but I would say it's more teen aimed. General ships.

+ The coroner of his eye, by *@Aaren*. I remember reading this one and liking it a lot too. So Jason is stubborn as a mule and keeps dying; but each time it's worse for him. Nasty things happen. Lots and lots of angst and drama—But there is bonding with Bruce and the rest of the batfam too. It says teen audience, but I woulds say it's straight mature and gen ships.

+ Stargazer, by *@LemonadeGarden*. Another one of my faves. Jason and Bruce go in a roadtrip, and they reconnect with each other. It's honestly good, inho. Mature audience, gen ship.

+ Nature and Nurture by *@lurkinglurkerwholurks* has been mentioned in another list already. But by its nature, it deserves to be here too. Bruce gets de-aged at different stages of his aging process/life; and each member of the family has to deal with him. It's very exploratory on the batfamily relationships. It's a bit of a general batman fanfic, but Jason has a center role in the first stage of the re-aging progress. Teen audience, gen ships.

+ Common People, by *@AmariT*. There are a few fics that share this premise, but out of them, this is the one I like the most. It happens here, that Jason is Bruce biological son and he ends living with him and his other brothers: Dick and Tim (who are Bruce's blood sons too). It has very enjoyable dynamics, and fun ones, (Jason isn't aware of Bruce and Dick vigilante activities; but he suspects something fishy. And Tim isn't helping, the troll). Family feels and bonding, and a warm feel overall. Gen readers, gen ships.

+ Show me Yesterday, for I can’t Find Today, by *@redtruthed*, has been mentioned previously too. But besides time-travel, it also revolves around family drama and bonding with Jason and Bruce at the center of the stage. Teen readers, gen ships.

+ What you Want to Remember, by *@renecdote*. A rara avis: a fic about Jason and Duke bonding. It's a one-shot and it's a nice read. It also speaks more about Jason and the rest of the family than about Jason and Duke themselves, to be honest. Gen readers, gen ship.

+ The View From Jade by *@lowflyingfruit*. I think I recommended this one in the Time-Travelling list? In any case, it's a nice read about Jason bonding with a past-time, young Bruce and Dick, and to some extent, to current-for-him time Dick. In his misadventure in the past, he tries to understand both of them better. Teen audience, and even if it says gen ships, at times I though it was teasing some unresolved, undeveloped ship between Jason and adult Dick (it was blink and you'll miss though).

+ I never call (a crazy thing to do) by *@ohnomydear*. This is one of the most fun fics I'm currently reading. Tim misses an alien artefact and as a consequence, Jason is erased from everyone else's memories but Tim's. It follows the mystery of the artefact and the problems with a bunch of villains, but also (or mostly) is family dynamics. With a family that doesn't remember him. Teen audience, gen ships.

+ I'm uncertain about including Retrograde Motion by *@Lysical*, because it's a very de-aged Jason who could easily be a different character. And we don't get to see his viewpoint at all. But it plays so heavily with his previous relationships and the Outlaws with the batfam that it really needs to stay in this list as well. Teen readers, gen ships.

+ Little Wing and Big Bird, by *@Airawyn*. I guess this 4-part adventure with Jason as Robin and Nightwing can count as a family fic; the brotherly feels are strong in this one. It's a little bit naïve, but otherwise, a very enjoyable story. Gen readers, gen ships.

+ Outsider by *@Kai_Maciel*. It's a very good read. It warms one's heart, how Bruce and Jason reconcile. 3-part fic. Gen readers, gen ships.

+ It's Gonna Take a Lot to Drag Me Away from You, by *@snapbackmalik*. "Jason is quiet on patrol and Bruce wants to know what the hell is going on." Jason as Robin, bonding with Bruce. Short story. General audiences and no ships.

+ Also worth mentioning some of the fics about Jason and other bats being buried etc. listed this collection: "*Buried, Burnt and Risen from the Ashes*"

And that's all. There were more in my bookmarks, but I have to close my selection somehow, or this post would be too bit to not being too much or a bore (it almost exceeds the chara limits). I think there were a few ones in FFN, too, but I don't have the links anymore (so if you guys want to post some, I'll be thankful).

----------


## Sergard

@Zaresh: Thanks for putting the time and effort into making that list. I linked the post in the recommended fanfics overview.

----------


## Zaresh

> @Zaresh: Thanks for putting the time and effort into making that list. I linked the post in the recommended fanfics overview.


No problem :3 Same to you: thanks for keeping our thread so well kept: clean, informative and updated.

----------


## Jackalope89

I've come across a few of those. Like the Jason deaged one. Some interesting character clashes in that one (like Bruce and Artemis for example).

----------


## Jackalope89

> fishtre


Yeah, I remember seeing some comments about shipping Jason and his cousin before the family reveal. My how times have changed.

----------


## Zaresh

> I've come across a few of those. Like the Jason deaged one. Some interesting character clashes in that one (like Bruce and Artemis for example).


Yeah. In Retrogade Motion there are some interesting dynamics. I enjoyed the ones between Dick and Artemis the most myself.

Edit: now that I look at the first page again, maybe we need to update the part about Willis: we know now that Solitary wasn't Willis, or at least, we're meant to think that he wasn't Willis.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Yeah. In Retrogade Motion there are some interesting dynamics. I enjoyed the ones between Dick and Artemis the most myself.


Oh yeah. Won't spoil anything, but it's probably one of the most awkward and awesome dynamics in the story.

----------


## Sergard

> Edit: now that I look at the first page again, maybe we need to update the part about Willis: we know now that Solitary wasn't Willis, or at least, we're meant to think that he wasn't Willis.


You mean that part, right?

"Willis Todd/Solitary - Jason's father who is presumed dead but who is actually very alive and calls himself Solitary (maybe a villain)"

Solitary still claims to be Willis, and Ma Gunn recognized him as her son. On the other hand, Jason says he's not Willis. That's confusing.
Any suggestions how to rewrite that part?

----------


## Sergard

I found a Jason/Artemis artist on twitter.

YUURI




YUURI





YUURI

----------


## Sergard

Oh my god, I finally found the artist of this Kate Kane and Jason Todd fanart.

3eden





Here's another fanart from two years ago with those two.

3eden



And here's the link to the "Red Hood"-tagged posts on tumblr. So many beautiful artworks.

----------


## Sergard

B.O.P



B.O.P

----------


## Zaresh

> You mean that part, right?
> 
> "Willis Todd/Solitary - Jason's father who is presumed dead but who is actually very alive and calls himself Solitary (maybe a villain)"
> 
> Solitary still claims to be Willis, and Ma Gunn recognized him as her son. On the other hand, Jason says he's not Willis. That's confusing.
> Any suggestions how to rewrite that part?


What about this?

"Willis Todd: Jason's father. Presumed deceased; but then Solitary, the man behind Underlife, claims to be him. Jason's denies this fact before Solitary's apparent dead. But something in Solitary's story doesn't add up with Jason's. Could it be? Could Willis Todd be alive?"

----------


## Sergard

> What about this?
> 
> "Willis Todd: Jason's father. Presumed deceased; but then Solitary, the man behind Underlife, claims to be him. Jason's denies this fact before Solitary's apparent dead. But something in Solitary's story doesn't add up with Jason's. Could it be? Could Willis Todd be alive?"


That's good. I edit the OP.
And who knows. Maybe Solitary will reappear again this year - and then we'll probably have to change the OP again.

----------


## Zaresh

> That's good. I edit the OP.
> And who knows. Maybe Solitary will reappear again this year - and then we'll probably have to change the OP again.


We will may need to update a few more parts in the end (if we're lucky). We're living interesting times  :Smile: .

----------


## Arsenal

Don’t think we’ll see Solitary again until after the trinity reunites. His story seems pretty connected to theirs.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Don’t think we’ll see Solitary again until after the trinity reunites. His story seems pretty connected to theirs.


I'm thinking the guy they ran into at the old prison was just a puppet. He was beaten far too easily. Its possible the REAL Solitary, Willis, led Jason there to get and recruit Bunker. And then there's still the mystery behind Wingman.

----------


## Arsenal

> I'm thinking the guy they ran into at the old prison was just a puppet. He was beaten far too easily. Its possible the REAL Solitary, Willis, led Jason there to get and recruit Bunker. And then there's still the mystery behind Wingman.


Yeah I wouldn’t be surprised. The one Jason faced definitely wasn’t the same guy who visited Grandma Gunn or took out Smartzarro without breaking a sweat. 

Though I do kinda think Wingman’s presence is tied to either Essence or Ducra somehow since we know they’ll be a part of this arc.

----------


## Sergard

4yottsu





whrorong

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

The delays on the previews are getting irritating.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Oh hey, Jim Starlin talks about Jason's death.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Oh hey, Jim Starlin talks about Jason's death.


Ah, yes. The guy so anti-Robin he wanted to give Jason AIDs.

Oddly enough, that became a thing for a different sidekick down the line, but in a much different context.

----------


## dietrich

> Oh hey, Jim Starlin talks about Jason's death.


WOW!!! 

He's not wrong about a brightly outfitted kid next to a batman who blends into the dark being so child endangerment and so wrong on so many levels but than damn. The dude hated the concept that much/

What is with so many creators hating Robin so much? Just last year at con a bunch of batman writers were making fun of the character being easily disposable fodder.

What shocked me the most was the attitude and the decision making process at DC. Explains a lot really. 

We want to do a book about Aids here's a suggestion box folks. Cast your vote for who you want to get Aids!

Oh we can make so extra dosh if we did a call in gimmick to kill off a character. Who should we kill?

No wonder so many characters get screwed over and there's no proper coordination. I'm sorry but you'd think that they would put more thought into handling there IPs. These are valuable properties.

Well a bad decision down the line ended up working out for DC. They got Red Hood.A solid and unique character. If Jason hadn't died, he might be suffering the Tim Drake curse today. A "What to do with a you problem".

By dying he not only got then chance for a rebirth but secured his place in Bat mythology meaning that DC can't just erase his tenure like they did with the Robin that came after him. So really it's all WIN for Jason and DC who get to eat their cake and have it.

----------


## dietrich

*Bros*





https://twitter.com/an_atagasu

----------


## Sergard

JJMK

----------


## Jackalope89

> JJMK


Man, I'm really hoping the second half of Young Justice expands on this. Because if any character left would make for a good Outsider, it would be Jason. And with the al'Ghuls on the outs with the Light, it kind of brings a few theories to mind.

And while I love the thought of all those Super Babies coming into their own, that won't be for a while yet.

----------


## Sergard

chamsut0905

----------


## Sergard

Jason Fabok has posted two panels from _Three Jokers_.
I still don't know what to expect from the story.

----------


## Sergard

gbj_Bellgreen

----------


## dietrich

*tfw you're basically invulnerable to pretty much everything but your resident bat has to keep throwing themselves in danger for you anyways
*



https://twitter.com/komieci

----------


## dietrich

*Robins*





https://twitter.com/gbj_Bellgreen




https://twitter.com/karo_robbin

----------


## Sergard

Flaffizz

----------


## Arsenal

There’s a seemingly random reference to RH:O in today’s issue of Catwoman involving Penguin getting some kind of Green Gem/Relic thing from Selina (with * that says catch in Penguin RH:O #32). I doubt anything will come out of it but it seemed random that I figure it’s worth mentioning on the odd chance something does.

----------


## G-Potion

> Flaffizz


Ha, that's so cute!

----------


## Restingvoice

> What is with so many creators hating Robin so much? Just last year at con a bunch of batman writers were making fun of the character being easily disposable fodder.


I didn't know people like Robin until I saw the fandom post Hush. Since I was a kid no one I know like Robin. Everyone wants to be Batman. Robin is either a joke or annoyance. 

The first time I like Robin was in a short story where he showcases his intelligence, and later being badass and intelligent once I actually read comics that are not silver age. 

I want to say these creators are adults or older men who can't relate with a kid being badass, but as I said before, no one I know like Robin and that was when we were kids. Heck, I didn't like Robin. All of us wanted to be Batman, the cool one, not Robin, the stupid one. The image came from Batman 66 of course. Even BTAS didn't erase that image. Then, of course, Schumacher's version didn't help. 

I think Tim of TNBA was the first time Robin didn't feel... insignificant... to me, but by that time we kinda already stopped playing Batman. So Tim's role didn't even count. 

I guess that image of Robin being a kid or just younger, dumber than Batman, or annoying is just that strong. 

So if that's my impression of Robin, and most creators are older than me, then they have an even stronger image of Robin 66. Regardless of what comic and The New Teen Titans show. 

Actually, even in his college age, Dick is still kidnapped, and so was the younger Jason of the Bronze Age.  Whether it's child endangerment or they just like single playboy billionaire fantasy without the burden of a child, I feel like that first or longest image of Robin leaves such a lasting impression.

Kinda like how there are still people who prefer Harley to be the dumb sidekick of Joker.

I don't know if I answered your question, I kinda went off on my own there XD

----------


## dietrich

> I didn't know people like Robin until I saw the fandom post Hush. Since I was a kid no one I know like Robin. Everyone wants to be Batman. Robin is either a joke or annoyance. 
> 
> The first time I like Robin was in a short story where he showcases his intelligence, and later being badass and intelligent once I actually read comics that are not silver age. 
> 
> I want to say these creators are adults or older men who can't relate with a kid being badass, but as I said before, no one I know like Robin and that was when we were kids. Heck, I didn't like Robin. All of us wanted to be Batman, the cool one, not Robin, the stupid one. The image came from Batman 66 of course. Even BTAS didn't erase that image. Then, of course, Schumacher's version didn't help. 
> 
> I think Tim of TNBA was the first time Robin didn't feel... insignificant... to me, but by that time we kinda already stopped playing Batman. So Tim's role didn't even count. 
> 
> I guess that image of Robin being a kid or just younger, dumber than Batman, or annoying is just that strong. 
> ...


You are not wrong. Robin used to be a total damsel in distress. being dressed in undies or tights didn't help matters. Son of Batman was my fist time seeing a cool Robin. One you could take seriously. However I didn't know the source material. Now having read the comics Robin is a character I respect more. 

However a writer and a fan approach the character from different angles. I can see why a fan might view Robin as lame but creators can make Robin what ever they want. 
Robin was meant to be a stand in. A power fantasy/self insert for fans maybe that's why creators have/had such disdain for him self inserts/audience standin characters are not amongst the lamest there are and don't allow for much writer expression. But still.

Likely why a lot of current writers enjoy Damian's Robin because he isn't an audience stand in.  But still I think that Robin is a solid character and even creators who don't share that view shouldn't mock a big IP like Robin so casually

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Year of the Villain themed variant cover for issue 36

----------


## dietrich

> Year of the Villain themed variant cover for issue 36


Very Nice.

10 characters

----------


## Sergard

> Year of the Villain themed variant cover for issue 36


As always, Yasmine Putri's art is perfection. I especially love the lighting.

----------


## kaimaciel

O_O This is gorgeous! Miss Putri really knocked it out of the park with this one!

----------


## oasis1313

Does she just do covers?  I once asked that question about Adam Hughes and got told, "Why should he grind out a monthly book when he gets paid more just for doing covers?"

----------


## G-Potion

> Year of the Villain themed variant cover for issue 36


Beautiful! I appreciate the torn hood so we can see some hair.   :Embarrassment:

----------


## Zaresh

> Beautiful! I appreciate the torn hood so we can see some hair.


Right? For some reaaon, that got my attention too. Really beautiful cover.

----------


## Arsenal

Select July Titles to Feature Unique “Portrait” Variant Covers of Characters Receiving “The Offer” from Lex Luthor

So I guess Jason will be a part of the YOTV thing in some capacity, even if it’s just an interaction with Luther.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Select July Titles to Feature Unique “Portrait” Variant Covers of Characters Receiving “The Offer” from Lex Luthor
> 
> So I guess Jason will be a part of the YOTV thing in some capacity, even if it’s just an interaction with Luther.


Source of this?

----------


## Arsenal

> Source of this?


https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2019/0...on-this-summer

One-Shot Spotlights the DCU’s Most Notorious Evildoers, Sets the Stage for Upcoming Blockbuster Stories in

JUSTICE LEAGUE, EVENT LEVIATHAN and BATMAN



Select July Titles to Feature Unique “Portrait” Variant Covers of

Characters Receiving “The Offer” from Lex Luthor

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Ah, I see it  now. Thanks.

----------


## Zaresh

Uh... Uhm... 

I don't want Jason in that Leviatan event. I really don't. I hope it's just a "he was there for a panel and half" thing. Not only because the idea doesn't make me excited: it will break the storyflow we're having right now and I dislike when events just mess with a story. I dislike events in general (I don't buy them, and usually dont't read them either), but, well, I guess I'm in the minority (because they keep doing events and events and more events. So that means that people buy them).

I hope it's not something important.

----------


## Arsenal

The 4 phases of YOTV seem more or less directly connected to what Snyders building towards in Justice League. Its unclear how itll impact any ongoing beyond JL or if there will be any tie-ins at all.

For all we know, it could be nothing more than Luthor appearing at the end of RH:O #36 to make Jason an offer, Jason rejects it and it ends there.

----------


## Jackalope89

> The 4 phases of YOTV seem more or less directly connected to what Snyder’s building towards in Justice League. It’s unclear how it’ll impact any ongoing beyond JL or if there will be any tie-ins at all.
> 
> For all we know, it could be nothing more than Luthor appearing at the end of RH:O #36 to make Jason an offer, Jason rejects it and it ends there.


I'm REALLY hoping so. But Jason was grouped in with other criminals in that line-up. And for some reason, DC has been giving Bendis free reign to do whatever he wants since coming in.

----------


## Arsenal

> I'm REALLY hoping so. But Jason was grouped in with other criminals in that line-up. And for some reason, DC has been giving Bendis free reign to do whatever he wants since coming in.


Lois, Babs & Selina are on the list too (according to the variants) so he’s not the only good person on that list.

Plus even if he accepts Luthor’s offer, Jason could just use it to get what he wants before bailing half way in or giving information to the league. Jason saying yes doesn’t automatically mean he’s going back to the dark side.

----------


## Sergard

> https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2019/0...on-this-summer
> 
> One-Shot Spotlights the DCUs Most Notorious Evildoers, Sets the Stage for Upcoming Blockbuster Stories in
> 
> JUSTICE LEAGUE, EVENT LEVIATHAN and BATMAN
> 
> 
> 
> Select July Titles to Feature Unique Portrait Variant Covers of
> ...


Why are all those portrait variant covers so f*cking beautiful and intense so that I can't stop looking at them? I'm not rich enough to afford them all.
I'm definitely digging those portraits more than the Detective Comics #1000 variants.
If Luthor offers Jason to bring Artemis and Bizarro back I hope Jason accepts. It's time for their return.
And if Jason and Slade finally team up I'll be the happiest person on the planet.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Lois, Babs & Selina are on the list too (according to the variants) so he’s not the only good person on that list.
> 
> Plus even if he accepts Luthor’s offer, Jason could just use it to get what he wants before bailing half way in or giving information to the league. Jason saying yes doesn’t automatically mean he’s going back to the dark side.


If it were most other authors, I'd be inclined to agree. But with Bendis, a guy infamous for ignoring pre-established continuity, and awful at getting certain characters right (he still hasn't gotten Lois down yet, for example), I'm a bit on edge.




> Why are all those portrait variant covers so f*cking beautiful and intense so that I can't stop looking at them? I'm not rich enough to afford them all.
> I'm definitely digging those portraits more than the Detective Comics #1000 variants.
> If Luthor offers Jason to bring Artemis and Bizarro back I hope Jason accepts. It's time for their return.
> And if Jason and Slade finally team up I'll be the happiest person on the planet.


I'm kind of over Deathstroke. He needs to be a better father to his own kids before he can ever think about lecturing someone else's kids.

If Luthor does offer to bring Artemis and Biz back, but demands Jason work with him in the meantime, I could see Jason do so, with intent to double cross him. But Luthor would be prepared for it, and have his own plan(s) in play before Jason could begin planning.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Well, there's that rumor we've been hearing since last year and Leviathan it is a guy in both a red hood and helmet...

----------


## Restingvoice

> You are not wrong. Robin used to be a total damsel in distress. being dressed in undies or tights didn't help matters. Son of Batman was my fist time seeing a cool Robin. One you could take seriously. However I didn't know the source material. Now having read the comics Robin is a character I respect more. 
> 
> However a writer and a fan approach the character from different angles. I can see why a fan might view Robin as lame but creators can make Robin what ever they want. 
> Robin was meant to be a stand in. A power fantasy/self insert for fans maybe that's why creators have/had such disdain for him self inserts/audience standin characters are not amongst the lamest there are and don't allow for much writer expression. But still.
> 
> Likely why a lot of current writers enjoy Damian's Robin because he isn't an audience stand in.  But still I think that Robin is a solid character and even creators who don't share that view shouldn't mock a big IP like Robin so casually


Gosh, I wish writers... heck, everyone at DC can be as professional as they think they are because one of the reasons for my rage quit is the clear bias they have. Writers for certain characters, higher-ups for certain writers. Like I know this company is half built on fanboyism but come on. Your job is to create fantasy heroes, but it sounds like you don't like kids.

----------


## redmax99

> Well, there's that rumor we've been hearing since last year and Leviathan it is a guy in both a red hood and helmet...


at this point in time i really hope its him because,he's stagnant and i see he's going nowhere. i mean if what going in action comics right now is because of him i say good for him. the offer might be in july but we all know red hood book is in its on little world and day to day  until lobdell is force to write for current times and events

----------


## G-Potion

I don't think Jason is anywhere near stagnant, at least in term of character development, especially if you compare him to other Bats. But if you meant stagnant as in his place in the DCU, then maybe, but changing him into a bad guy for the sake of an event sounds more like a move to sabotage rather than elevate his character.

----------


## Zaresh

> at this point in time i really hope its him because  he's stagnant and i see he's going nowhere


No, oh. Everything but that. See, I know how a bad move can turn how audience see a certain character forever, and I think this could be a very dangerous move that could make the audience see Jason as an irredeemable villain for years to come. I don't like the idea of taking the risk. Besides...

He's going somewhere now. The previous arc was a bit messy, true: because, I suspect, it had to suffer through a sudden change in editorial plans because the new events and the changes in teams and staff. But now? For me, again, it's pretty clear that Lobdell is building Jason to break and fall into more than dubious ways. All the solicits we have seem point to that, and this month's issue (and to certain degree, the previous one and the previous art too) seem to point to Jason going to wild and loose, angry, even hostile. I feel some conflict in there and I feel like it's going to blow up in a few issues. Or, well, that's what I get. From time to time, Jason is going to mess up, and this feels like he's in that period of the cycle.

----------


## Zaresh

On another note, seeing as they've cast Iain Glen as Bruce Wayne for Titans (great choice, btw), I was wondering if the reason why Jason has a more present role in the second season is because he's going to be Dick's sidekick instead of Bruce's. Glen is turning 58 yo soon (if I'm not mistaken), so it could be the case, that we're getting an old Bruce who's about to retire from Batman.

----------


## redmax99

[QUOTE=Zaresh;4303211]No, oh. Everything but that. See, I know how a bad move can turn how audience see a certain character forever, and I think this could be a very dangerous move that could make the audience see Jason as an irredeemable villain for years to come. I don't like the idea of taking the risk. Besides...

that's not true Jason been painted as irredeemable before and yet he still got a book out of being painted as the scum of the earth. Morrison wrote Jason so terrible that it took a great writer to write him back to status quo i mean winnick came in before the new 52, an in 3 issue of batman and robin jason was back to being the anti-hero and anti-villian everyone knew and loved.  if scott lobdell is half a strong writer he is suppose to be he can turn jason around in 6 issues and not drag on,or down a story, with whatever silly story he wants to tell until he sure he has jason back to status quo.

----------


## redmax99

> I don't think Jason is anywhere near stagnant, at least in term of character development, especially if you compare him to other Bats. But if you meant stagnant as in his place in the DCU, then maybe, but changing him into a bad guy for the sake of an event sounds more like a move to sabotage rather than elevate his character.


jason always been a bad guy , he's kind hearted ,loving to family and friends and people who are nice to him. but the guy confirm kill count is 83 people and thats just from  a mass poisoning in black gate they didn't even count the suicides that took place or murder on murder that happen. jason had a support system was the only reason he wasn't acting out. he mellowed out because tim and roy believed later starfire and than the rest of the batfamily. now his support system is gone what does jason has to lose being his truth-self some one thats a go getter for things he want .

----------


## okiedokiewo

> The 4 phases of YOTV seem more or less directly connected to what Snyder’s building towards in Justice League. It’s unclear how it’ll impact any ongoing beyond JL or if there will be any tie-ins at all.
> 
> For all we know, it could be nothing more than Luthor appearing at the end of RH:O #36 to make Jason an offer, Jason rejects it and it ends there.


It doesn't even have to mean that. A variant cover more often than not doesn't have much to do with what's going on in the issue.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Rocafort isn't working in the annual

RED HOOD: OUTLAW ANNUAL #3
written by SCOTT LOBDELL
art by ADAM POLLINA
cover by DEXTER SOY
Missing since the fateful events of issue #25, the story of what happened to Bizarro and Artemis after they were sucked through the quantum doorway can finally be told! Trapped in a strange reality where everyone with metahuman abilities has become normal and ordinary humans now possess powers, up is down, left is right and only a pair of Outlaws can save the day in a world gone mad. Meet strange new foes, and even stranger new allies. Can the Outlaws fix this broken world and still make it back to our world and their mission alongside the Red Hood?
ON SALE 07.31.19
$4.99 US | 48 PAGES
FC | RATED T+



And Jason is getting new teammates

RED HOOD: OUTLAW #36
written by SCOTT LOBDELL
art by PETE WOODS
cover by DAN PANOSIAN
variant cover by YASMINE PUTRI
There’s no way to plan for every contingency...even for a son of the Bat like Jason Todd. His goal was to take down the Penguin and assume his role as the prince of Gotham, but the best laid plans go awry when Oswald Cobblepot gets the last laugh—and the last bullet! And not even the Red Hood and his posse can stop him. (How could they with the Iceberg Lounge under siege and Bunker, Wingman and the Sisters Su too busy to help Jason deal with a Penguin ascendant?) Don’t miss the startling conclusion to “Prince of Gotham!”
What can Lex Luthor offer former sidekick Jason Todd? Sidekicks…broken, battered and catastrophically dangerous sidekicks. The Teen Titans they’re not!
ON SALE 07.10.19
$3.99 US | 32 PAGES
CARD STOCK VARIANT COVER $4.99
FC | RATED T+
This issue will ship with two covers.
Please see the order form for details.

----------


## Zaresh

> *that's not true Jason been painted as irredeemable before and yet he still got a book out of being painted as the scum of the earth*. Morrison wrote Jason so terrible that it took a great writer to write him back to status quo i mean winnick came in before the new 52, an in 3 issue of batman and robin jason was back to being the anti-hero and anti-villian everyone knew and loved.  if scott lobdell is half a strong writer he is suppose to be he can turn jason around in 6 issues and not drag on,or down a story, with whatever silly story he wants to tell until he sure he has jason back to status quo.


That happened, yeah. Was when he wasn't as established as he's now, and in a book alone, not in an event (he was a grey character outside there). Also, Morrison himself wrote him out of his villainous path in the end in Batman Inc (after Winnick short help before the reboot, painting him not so, er, crazy and ridiculous), and had a big, big reboot to help him resert Jason's status and story.

As I said, I'll rather not take that path now. It's not worth the risk, imho. Events tend to have a bigger impact in my experience, just because they have more readers and that makes it last longer. Mmm, I acknowledge that Jason's own nature is to be forever on the verge of both sides, but I also think he will always end swing to the side of good most of the times, with all his messes and mistakes and meltdowns. He's more of a *good* guy than a bad, in a world who isn't like ours and doesn't work as well as ours. He's just very flawed, has a lot of emotional issues, has had problems in the past (trauma and a bad upbringing can do that to you) and is willed to do ethically wrong things. But he's heroic in his core.

In any case, we will have the 3 jokers mini, that I hope will play Jason as an anti-hero and not a villain. I trust them to at least that (to be honest, I'm hopeful with that book now, after what we've been told).

----------


## Arsenal

> It doesn't even have to mean that. A variant cover more often than not doesn't have much to do with what's going on in the issue.


Normally that is true but not in this case. The variant covers are directly related to whose involved in phase 1 of YOTV.



> Rocafort isn't working in the annual
> 
> RED HOOD: OUTLAW ANNUAL #3
> written by SCOTT LOBDELL
> art by ADAM POLLINA
> cover by DEXTER SOY
> Missing since the fateful events of issue #25, the story of what happened to Bizarro and Artemis after they were sucked through the quantum doorway can finally be told! Trapped in a strange reality where everyone with metahuman abilities has become normal and ordinary humans now possess powers, up is down, left is right and only a pair of Outlaws can save the day in a world gone mad. Meet strange new foes, and even stranger new allies. Can the Outlaws fix this broken world and still make it back to our world and their mission alongside the Red Hood?
> ON SALE 07.31.19
> $4.99 US | 48 PAGES
> ...


Looks like the annual will focus heavily on Biz and Artemis's time in  wherever they are (which I kinda suspected it would). Wonder if Jason will appear at all or if the focus will be on them.

I'll be honest, I don't like the idea of Jason taking on sidekicks (or atleast young ones) but I'll wait to see who the team is and what happens before judging it. The characters could be introduced here but not appear again until Snyder uses them in his event thing. Maybe Wingman's connected to Lex and he's the one who sent WM to find Jason last arc.

----------


## Zaresh

> Rocafort isn't working in the annual
> 
> RED HOOD: OUTLAW ANNUAL #3
> written by SCOTT LOBDELL
> art by ADAM POLLINA
> cover by DEXTER SOY
> Missing since the fateful events of issue #25, the story of what happened to Bizarro and Artemis after they were sucked through the quantum doorway can finally be told! Trapped in a strange reality where everyone with metahuman abilities has become normal and ordinary humans now possess powers, up is down, left is right and only a pair of Outlaws can save the day in a world gone mad. Meet strange new foes, and even stranger new allies. Can the Outlaws fix this broken world and still make it back to our world and their mission alongside the Red Hood?
> ON SALE 07.31.19
> $4.99 US | 48 PAGES
> ...


Awesome. The anual is perfect for my always-delayed birthday gift.
I'm guessing the sidekicks aren't going to stay in the bock, if we get Art and Biz back, maybe? Or maybe Art and Biz are those sidekicks? (but they're not: that's rude, Lex!—If he refers to them them that way)

----------


## Arsenal

EVENT LEVIATHAN #2
written by BRIAN MICHAEL BENDIS
art and cover by ALEX MALEEV
variant cover by JASON FABOK
“The Detectives”! EVENT LEVIATHAN, the new miniseries by the award-winning team of writer Brian Michael Bendis and artist Alex Maleev, continues! As the mystery of Leviathan continues to rock the very foundations of the DC Universe, the world’s greatest detectives gather for the first time anywhere to solve the mystery before it’s too late! Lois Lane leads Batman, Green Arrow, Plastic Man, Manhunter, the Question and a couple of genuine guest sleuths in the search for who Leviathan is and how their plans have already unfolded. This issue also guest-stars *Red Hood*, Batgirl and more!

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Heh, I wasn't expecting this.

----------


## Zaresh

> EVENT LEVIATHAN #2
> written by BRIAN MICHAEL BENDIS
> art and cover by ALEX MALEEV
> variant cover by JASON FABOK
> “The Detectives”! EVENT LEVIATHAN, the new miniseries by the award-winning team of writer Brian Michael Bendis and artist Alex Maleev, continues! As the mystery of Leviathan continues to rock the very foundations of the DC Universe, the world’s greatest detectives gather for the first time anywhere to solve the mystery before it’s too late! Lois Lane leads Batman, Green Arrow, Plastic Man, Manhunter, the Question and a couple of genuine guest sleuths in the search for who Leviathan is and how their plans have already unfolded. This issue also guest-stars *Red Hood*, Batgirl and more!


Guess-star.
Good.

Maybe we dodged the event in the end ^____^.




> Heh, I wasn't expecting this.


Cute.

----------


## dietrich

> Heh, I wasn't expecting this.


That's pretty sweet. Fans have been comparing the Robins to the Turtles for ages so pretty cool to have this nod

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Adam Pollina art is pretty

https://www.comiccrusaders.com/previ...-world-1-of-5/

----------


## dietrich

Raphael as Red Hood

----------


## Jackalope89

So we finally get to see the kind of world Artemis and Biz have been dealing with. Apparently, a world where the average person is a meta-human, and those that are on the main Earth, are not meta-humans. 

I can now see why 2 powerful beings like Biz and Artemis would have to go underground, so to speak. Makes me wonder what sort of powers Jason would have in that world.

----------


## G-Potion

> Looks like the annual will focus heavily on Biz and Artemis's time in … wherever they are (which I kinda suspected it would). Wonder if Jason will appear at all or if the focus will be on them.


Would be a shame if we don't see a superpower Jason. Such opportunity.

----------


## G-Potion

> Raphael as Red Hood


Haha that's so cool!

----------


## Arsenal

> Would be a shame if we don't see a superpower Jason. Such opportunity.


Only if the annual ends with Biz and Artemis back on earth. It could easily cover what they were up to between RHATO 25 to 36 and end with them reuniting with Jason still stuck in wherever they are, kicking off a new arc.

----------


## Aahz

> Raphael as Red Hood


You posted also Leo and Mike, is there also one for Donnie?

----------


## dietrich

> You posted also Leo and Mike, is there also one for Donnie?


Yeah Donnie is also tagged as Red Hood which i think was mistake for Red Robin but there wasn't any change that I could see aside from a cape so i didn't bother posting 
Splinter was Alfred
Bebop was Killer Croc
Rocksteady was Clayface
Shredder was Joker
Harley as Karai
Karang as Bane

here's the link https://twitter.com/JamesTheFourth/s...016438785?s=19

----------


## Sergard

Dexter Soy "_You can no longer break the broken_"

----------


## Sergard

> Would be a shame if we don't see a superpower Jason. Such opportunity.


Or alternate reality Jason has no powers at all - which would indicate that actually main continuity Jason has some hidden meta powers, right?



I noticed that the portrait variants can be misleading.
It's not Slade that gets an offer from Lex but Jericho. And now I want Jericho and Jason to team up.

----------


## Sergard

MOG




maple_DC

----------


## Sergard

Fade

----------


## Artemisfanboy

> Dexter Soy "_You can no longer break the broken_"


I very glad to Temi is comming back. This quote along with the solicitation reffering to "battered and broken sidekicks" and the team looking pretty beat up makes me think Lex's offer to Jason is helping rescue them from this alternate unviverse. The broken part worries me a bit since it sounds like they're going have a case of ptsd and feel like there more than enough of that going around right now. Hopefully she's not too physically or mentally damaged by this experience.

----------


## Arsenal

His offer is either to help save them or help replace them.

Which one it is should be clear with next month’s solicits.

----------


## Sergard

"Sidekicks…broken, battered and catastrophically dangerous sidekicks. The Teen Titans they’re not!" does not really sound like Artemis and Bizarro. Both haven't been sidekicks or Teen Titans in the past.

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/OtterTheAuthor

----------


## Sergard

Jason Todd, charming as always.

m-alejandrita

----------


## Sergard

inkydandy



(Jason Todd, Donna Troy and Kyle Rayner)

----------


## RedBird

yizhihudafu

----------


## G-Potion

> yizhihudafu


Oh I love this!

----------


## sifighter

> "Sidekicksbroken, battered and catastrophically dangerous sidekicks. The Teen Titans theyre not!" does not really sound like Artemis and Bizarro. Both haven't been sidekicks or Teen Titans in the past.


....Are they insinuating that Jason is gonna lead or be a part of a new version of the Terror Titans or something?

----------


## RedBird

> In any case, we will have the 3 jokers mini, that I hope will play Jason as an anti-hero and not a villain. I trust them to at least that (to be honest, I'm hopeful with that book now, after what we've been told).


Same here, speaking of 3 Jokers.

Sorry if this was posted already. 'C2E2 ’19: Batman 80th Anniversary Panel'



_“Is there a character in the Bat family that is yours?”__

Fabok: I’ve always Batman alone. But loves Dick Grayson from Batman 66. Loves Red Hood right now from doing Three Jokers. This is the definitive Red Hood tale._



Eyyyyyy nice, a man after my own heart. That's my fave trio too.

Also.



_“Is there a difference of story you can tell with Batman alone, with the family, or with Catwoman?”_

_Zullo: when Robin is there it is a bit more lighthearted. 
Fabok: some of the darkest Batman stories have Robins_


He gets it lol.

----------


## G-Potion

I'm hopeful as well! This is a second or third time that Fabok made this statement about loving RH because of 3 Jokers story.  :Big Grin:

----------


## Artemisfanboy

> "Sidekicks…broken, battered and catastrophically dangerous sidekicks. The Teen Titans they’re not!" does not really sound like Artemis and Bizarro. Both haven't been sidekicks or Teen Titans in the past.


Good point. I guess I'm worried about Artemis and want her back.

----------


## Sergard

無Ga.





無Ga.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Really good summary of Isabel character

https://holy-fate-worse-than-death.t...most-relatable

----------


## dietrich

I've noticed that a few of you on this thread are artistic types who have posted or expressed an interest in creating works of art so i thought this might interest you.

* Gotham Bold: A Batfamily Fashion Zine!*

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...06Q1McpPA/edit

https://t.co/SWJclTem6f

https://twitter.com/BatFamFashion

----------


## Sergard

fishtre

----------


## Sergard

fishtre

----------


## Jackalope89

lol, Jason would be the one to same something that Dick wouldn't have comeback too.

----------


## Sergard

Found a cute slice-of-life fanfic: it's gonna take a lot to drag me away from you by snapbackmalik




> Of all the concerning things Batman and Robin had faced in their career, Bruce didn't think Jason's silence would top the list.
> 
>     or
> 
>     The one where Jason is quiet on patrol and Bruce wants to know what the hell is going on.

----------


## Sergard

A_sebury

----------


## G-Potion

> I've noticed that a few of you on this thread are artistic types who have posted or expressed an interest in creating works of art so i thought this might interest you.
> 
> * Gotham Bold: A Batfamily Fashion Zine!*
> 
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...06Q1McpPA/edit
> 
> https://t.co/SWJclTem6f
> 
> https://twitter.com/BatFamFashion


Thanks for the heads-up. Timing is not convenient for me but it would be great if some of us here can participate.

----------


## Zaresh

> Thanks for the heads-up. Timing is not convenient for me but it would be great if some of us here can participate.


I don't fully understand what one has to do for this book, to be honest. I don't have a lot of time for doing my thing now, but to be honest, I don't get the gist of the proposal.

----------


## G-Potion

> I don't fully understand what one has to do for this book, to be honest. I don't have a lot of time for doing my thing now, but to be honest, I don't get the gist of the proposal.


You just do fanarts or fics however you want as long as it fits the fashion/public persona theme. Later all works will be collected to put in a zine and be distributed in both PDFs and physical copies.

----------


## dietrich

> Thanks for the heads-up. Timing is not convenient for me but it would be great if some of us here can participate.


No problem just saw it and remembered that a few of the fans here have posted their work here so I thought you could contribute some Jason themed stuff to this.

I must admit I like buying batfam Fanzine [SFW] but i've never come across a fashion themed one. So this really caught my interest.

----------


## Zaresh

> You just do fanarts or fics however you want as long as it fits the fashion/public persona theme. Later all works will be collected to put in a zine and be distributed in both PDFs and physical copies.


Oh, ok then. Thanks!

----------


## Sergard

I love the idea of this fanzine and hope that there'll be some artworks showing Jason in fancy clothes.
I have only known so far that there are fanzines done by artists who draw in a more manga inspired style and are known to be manga fans - and who are sometimes even manga creators themselves.
So it's nice to see something US-comics related.

----------


## Jackalope89

Here's a fanfic that I don't believe has been posted. Has nothing to do with the fanzine thing (honestly, I'm the last person anyone should ask for fashion advice). Takes the Rebirth Outlaws, and makes them into real Outlaws. Called, "Who I am. Who I'll never be." Kind of an angst/revenge storyline thus far.

https://archiveofourown.org/works/17574995

----------


## Sergard

TEDDY





TEDDY





TEDDY

----------


## Sergard

Sen




Sen




Yaomo0929: "_Something I drew for #Shazam countdown_"

----------


## Jackalope89

> TEDDY
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TEDDY
> 
> 
> ...


Jason Voorhees, meet Jason Todd. Your fellow Jason that resurrected from the dead, though slightly less murderous to horny teenagers.

----------


## Zaresh

A few more fics I will add to their respective lists (If I success in not passing the limit of characters by post).

Tales from the House of Mau, by *@clarityhiding*. This is an urban fantasy, no capes series in which Jason inherits a comics and hobbies store (and an apartment) and ends being involved with the magic folk. None of the characters are with their original IDs and aliases; but those things sort of play into the story. It's male on male ship (JayTim. Female on female too, because IvyHarley), and even if it's tagged as teen, it's more like mature readers aimed, to be honest (by the commentary on sex themes). What can I say: it's fun, pretty chill and fluff in mood, and there are dragons and stuff. And tabletop roleplaying. Think "Fantastic Beasts" meets "Maison Ikkoku".

Just Keep Breathing, by *@Help__Obsessed_Artist*. This is another of those stories about Jason and someone else being trapped under a collapsed building. This time, it's Jason and Tim. Teen audience, no ships at all. A short story about two brothers and their family being worried.

A Hundred Miles through the Desert, by *@acrobats*. This is still ongoing, only 5 chapters long at the time I write these words; but I liked it enough to comment on it. It's a time-travelling story in which Jason gets transported 28 years into the past. And he cannot remember why or how. There, he mets Bruce after his parents death: a very stubborn 8 yo kid who is determined to make Jason helping him investigate their manslaughtering. It's heart-warming and even has a bit of mystery. Teen readers, gen ships.

This is all for now. I'm probably going to end separating the fics about Jason and collapsed buildings (and some other fics similar enough) because it seems that it's a trope popular enough to deserve its own post. And I'll probably post the "mixed fics list" soon, because we're really in the need of it: we sometimes post fics that don't fit well in any of them and it would be a shame to lose those links.

Edit: Sorry. I couldn't fit those fics in the same, old post; so in the end, I had to split it and create a new list.

----------


## Zaresh

Hello there! Here we go again, bringing to this thread a new list: "*Buried, Burnt and Risen from the Ashes*", a collection of fics that revolve around the themes of Jason and someone else being buried under collapsed buildings or warehouses, houses on fire, drownings, etc.; and connecting or bonding with them because of such perils.

+ Cracked Foundation, by *@Cdelphiki*. I think this is the first time I mention this fic, which is a shame, because it's one of my faves. Jason and Damian get stuck under a collapsed building.  They bond as brothers in their hardship. Teen audience, gen ship.

+ When the lights go out by *@Cryptoad*. This is another fic that works with Jason and Damian being buried in the wreckage of some collapsed building. It's a two-part story, and the second half is about the recovering. In this story the other members of the family have a larger role. Mature readers, gen ships.

+ My Lungs Burn with this Love I Feel, by *@Innocentfighter*. I don't remember much of this fic, but I remember liking it quite a lot. It's a one-shot in which Jason and Damian bond after Jason drowns and almost dies (well, technically...) in a mission that goes wrong, resulting in a lot of serious injuries and very damaged lungs. Teen readers, gen ships.

+ Just Keep Breathing, by *@Help__Obsessed_Artist*. This is another of those stories about Jason and someone else being trapped under a collapsed building. This time, it's Jason and Tim. Teen audience, no ships at all. A short story about two brothers and their family being worried.

+ Zoetic, by *@PurpleArrowzandLeather*. "Jason goes inside a burning building to save people who are trapped in their apartments. He doesn't come out.". It's not so heavy in the family drama and the bonding department; but it's a nice, sad story nevertheless. Short story, two-chapters long. Teen readers, gen ships.

And I guess this is it for now. Keep in mind that this is a very common trope, and it's easy to find it played in larger fics as a plot point for developing a deeper relationship between characters.

----------


## Sergard

AlexIniguezArt




moui




Samantha Zhou

----------


## Sergard

1tskillingm3







bluetost_T

----------


## Sergard

1tskillingm3: "_A while back I made it a mission to try and figure out all the Robins heights... do not do this. It will give you a headache and the numbers will be all over the place even from the same artist._"






(There are also fanarts of Dick and Tim in the same post).

----------


## Sergard

1tskillingm3

----------


## Restingvoice

> 1tskillingm3


He's so surprised by his hair

----------


## Jackalope89

> 1tskillingm3


Dick looks like a Bon Jovi music video. lol Surprised Jason.

----------


## Zaresh

These lists have been updated with new fics (some of them I didn't mention in my previous post. One of them is from Sergard):
Family MattersGhosts and Urban FantasyTime Travel and Aging / De-aging

And, as I mentioned, I created a new list (that contains 5 fics now) split from "Family Matters".

If I find some time, I'll finally post that assorted collection of fics this weekend. We really, really need it. I don't know where to put some of the fics that are already spread across the last 15 pages or so.

----------


## G-Potion

https://twitter.com/moon115115

----------


## Jackalope89



----------


## Sergard

> https://twitter.com/moon115115


I love that. 
So if Jason is (Little) Red Riding Hood than who is the Big Bad Wolf?

----------


## Sergard

And here is some older Red Riding Hood Jason from 2017 by RedRidingHood (what a fitting name  :Big Grin: )





And this is the newest artwork by the same artist.

RedRidingHood

----------


## Sergard

iggy__e




Alex Todd

----------


## Zaresh

Damn! Again, so many new arts. Feels like the fandom is in a (good) frenzy.

----------


## Jackalope89

In all honesty, I'm pretty glad that Jason is kind of isolated from most of the major directions going on in DC right now. And having a writer that is truly passionate about him and giving him a story has really helped.

The Three Jokers storyline looks interesting for him. The upcoming Leviathan... 

I'll wait and see on that one.

----------


## Arsenal

I wonder what costume he’ll get in leviathan: his current one, the old one or something entirely different

----------


## Jackalope89

A new fanfic was just posted. Only the first chapter, but it does take Jason in a whole different direction. Rather than Bruce coming across Jason jacking his wheels, Wonder Woman gets there first.

https://archiveofourown.org/chapters...ment_221580856

----------


## dietrich

Teen Titans and Outlaws

----------


## Sergard

原稿なん (@3o_oBN)




Meat (@MeatO_O)

----------


## Sergard

Alex Todd

----------


## Aahz

> 1tskillingm3: "_A while back I made it a mission to try and figure out all the Robins heights... do not do this. It will give you a headache and the numbers will be all over the place even from the same artist._"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (There are also fanarts of Dick and Tim in the same post).


I'm wondering what was used as a basis for the heights.

----------


## Sergard

mori_YJ2





La Malta (@ShantillyOwO)

----------


## Sergard

Zachariah E M Roane

----------


## Sergard

lemon_mango1



Shiro (Voltron), Jason Todd and Simon Blackquill (Ace Attorney game series)

----------


## Sergard

Fade




UsamiYuki0304

----------


## Sergard

> I'm wondering what was used as a basis for the heights.


My guess would be that the artist used Bruce' height as reference value and then chose some comic panels to determine the height of the Robins.
At least Jason was very tiny in his post-crisis introduction compared to Bruce.

----------


## Sergard

xylo_bee





JH

----------


## Aahz

> My guess would be that the artist used Bruce' height as reference value and then chose some comic panels to determine the height of the Robins.
> At least Jason was very tiny in his post-crisis introduction compared to Bruce.


But i would like to know which pnels were used.
The Heights are often very inconsistent even in one and the same comic. These Panels are  from the same comics as yousr just a couple of pages later, and here Jason reaches almost to the hight of Bruce rip cage, while in the the ones you postet he is barly above Bruce Belt. 

Batman 408.jpg

----------


## Sergard

Becca :"_wanted to do some Jason Todd/Red Hood redesigns for fun cause the current design... just doesn't showcase his FULL POTENTIAL_"







The comments under the post are fun. Even Woods commented and shared the post on his twitter page.

----------


## Jackalope89

Motocross and greaser look best, from a personal point of view. Street, never been a fan of that hairstyle, and Jason has never struck me as a "thot".

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I am glad DC never cares for fan redesigns because jeez, those are bad.

----------


## Arsenal

> I am glad DC never cares for fan redesigns because jeez, those are bad.


Yeah, I’m  not feeling any of them either.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Becca :"_wanted to do some Jason Todd/Red Hood redesigns for fun cause the current design... just doesn't showcase his FULL POTENTIAL_"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The comments under the post are fun. Even Woods commented and shared the post on his twitter page.


The greaser one just need a little touchup but the motocross one's just Keith from Voltron ^^ 
The THOT one made me laugh XD

----------


## OBrianTallent

> Becca :"_wanted to do some Jason Todd/Red Hood redesigns for fun cause the current design... just doesn't showcase his FULL POTENTIAL_"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The comments under the post are fun. Even Woods commented and shared the post on his twitter page.


That number 3 is um...awesome.  lol.  He would do just as well with out the top altogether.

----------


## dietrich

> That number 3 is um...awesome.  lol.  He would do just as well with out the top altogether.


What!? You want peps to see his nips?

I like the Biker best.

Lol at that visible happy trail in that Thot Design. Also what do they mean part Dick Grayson?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

You guys realize that other than number 3, the "redesigns" are just mix and match of Arkham Knight (Number 2) and Injustice's (Number 1) designs, right?

----------


## Zaresh

> You guys realize that other than number 3, the "redesigns" are just mix and match of Arkham Knight (Number 2) and Injustice's (Number 1) designs, right?


And for whatever reason, the "Thot" design reminds me of the designs Harley has nowadays.

----------


## dietrich

> You guys realize that other than number 3, the "redesigns" are just mix and match of Arkham Knight (Number 2) and Injustice's (Number 1) designs, right?


Number 4 is the best of the mix. I mean it's not like them them being recycled is a bad thing. They are fan ideas based on those outfits.

----------


## Sergard

> I am glad DC never cares for fan redesigns because jeez, those are bad.


Can you maybe be a little more disrespectful towards the artist?

If you don't like the designs, fine. But there is no need to be so rude/to belittle the artist's work. The only bad thing here is your behavior.

Since when are we criticizing fan artworks on the same level like official DC artworks?
This artist doesn't get paid to draw Jason. She just loves the character and enjoys making those designs - and shared them on her twitter so that other people can also enjoy them.

----------


## Zaresh

Just in case, in my case, I want to make it clear that I didn't mean to be disrespectful to the artist. I was just agreeing in that the design were reminiscent of the AK designs (and they are, probably on purpose). And the last one reminded me of current Harley's (and I think that's on purpose too).

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Can you maybe be a little more disrespectful towards the artist?
> 
> If you don't like the designs, fine. But there is no need to be so rude/to belittle the artist's work. The only bad thing here is your behavior.
> 
> Since when are we criticizing fan artworks on the same level like official DC artworks?
> This artist doesn't get paid to draw Jason. She just loves the character and enjoys making those designs - and shared them on her twitter so that other people can also enjoy them.


Any work that is put out there to be publicly seen is fair game to criticize. And I criticize official works and fan works by the same standards. If I see something I think is bad or good, I say so.

----------


## Celgress

> Any work that is put out there to be publicly seen is fair game to criticize. And I criticize official works and fan works by the same standards. If I see something I think is bad or good, I say so.


This is how I view the subject. If you create something you must expect criticism. I've had people use profanity and tell me to literally die in reviews of my different fanfiction stories, but I try not to take any of it to heart. On the flipside, I've received constructive criticism which has helped me improve greatly as an author along with several fascinating ideas I've since incorporated into different works (with attribution of course).

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> This is how I view the subject. If you create something you must expect criticism. I've had people use profanity and tell me to literally die in reviews of my different fanfiction stories, but I try not to take any of it to heart. On the flipside, I've received constructive criticism which has helped me improve greatly as an author along with several fascinating ideas I've since incorporated into different works (with attribution of course).


Exactly. Any creative that doesn't receive feedback is in risk of becoming stagnant. 

Anyways, Pete Woods give us a look at the work that goes into making an issue of the series

https://twitter.com/thatpetewoods/st...13192730513409

----------


## Sergard

@Zaresh: I didn't mean you. There is nothing wrong with your comment.

But I'm completely disagreeing with Dark.

I know there are people on the internet that say horrible stuff like Celgress mentioned and artists have to deal with that. But I don't expect such people here in this thread.
And writing something like "I am glad DC never cares for fan redesigns because jeez, those are bad." is definitely not "constructive criticism".

In my opinion, it's also BS to criticize official works and fan works by the same standards. An official design always aims to fit the story line and personality of the character.
You shouldn't look at a fan design and analyze how it would fit in the DC main continuity. The artist here obviously just wanted to play with elements of different franchises and show how that designs look on Jason.

----------


## G-Potion

As someone who has also shared art online, I do think that we need to take into account that most fanartists do it for fun and don't expect themselves to have to keep improving or measure up to professional standards. Even if I am given criticism, unless it's something easy I can just pay attention next time, I know that I don't have the time and energy to train myself because I have my own profession that takes priority. So constant or harsh criticism on fanartists doesn't help as much as you think it does professional artists and also risks discouraging people from sharing in fear of not living up to your standards, which is bad for any fandom.

----------


## Sergard

Jason's got some moves. And him dancing next to Scarecrow is maybe a reference to Arkham Knight?
Man-Bat looks surprisingly elegant. 







> Who says the Dark Knight doesn't dance? Batman celebrated his big birthday this weekend with a blowout featuring friends, family, a Batman-themed cake and a dance party to rival the biggest club in Gotham. Enjoy this special animated anniversary clip featuring some of Gotham's most infamous residents breaking out their wildest moves. Happy birthday, Batman!



And congratulations to everyone for reaching page 100  :Big Grin:

----------


## Jackalope89

> Jason's got some moves. And him dancing next to Scarecrow is maybe a reference to Arkham Knight?
> Man-Bat looks surprisingly elegant. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And congratulations to everyone for reaching page 100


Dude. Bats has been dancing since the 60s!

----------


## Sergard

JJMK

----------


## Sergard

Sen




moon115115

----------


## CPSparkles

https://twitter.com/JarrulusX

----------


## Sergard

mugimhmh830

----------


## Sergard

fishtre

----------


## Jackalope89

http://www.instahu.com/little.wing.comics

----------


## Sergard

Holdp_A





Fade

----------


## Sergard

inkydandy

----------


## kaimaciel

> inkydandy


OMG! I love this  :Big Grin:

----------


## Sergard

Some rumors emerged: "Warner Bros. Will Reportedly Unveil Outlaws DC Comics Game Very Soon".

But reading the article it isn't even clear if Jason and the other Outlaws from the comic will appear in the game at all. That's sad.



(source)

----------


## Zaresh

> Some rumors emerged: "Warner Bros. Will Reportedly Unveil Outlaws DC Comics Game Very Soon".
> 
> But reading the article it isn't even clear if Jason and the other Outlaws from the comic will appear in the game at all. That's sad.
> 
> 
> 
> (source)


I guess not, but... it would be weird if they don't appear, being a DC Comics game especifically, to be honest. And the font in the title is like the one in the comic series, just slightly more stylized.

And 26th is a day before Jason's death (commonly spread) date, iirc.

(Edit: totally unrelated, shameless off-topic, but the books by Scott McCloud about making comics are great (the less technical ones). Just in case someone is interesed in what's making a comic about—I mention this because we were commenting on tips about art and comics a few pages ago? Well, I'm reading two right now because other reasons and they are fun and easy to follow).

----------


## Arsenal

Guess we’ll find out Friday. It’ll be a nice surprise if it’s true (and Jason is involved).

----------


## Aahz

There have been other Outlaws at DC.

There was an Outlaws Series in the early 90s.

And there was an Batman: Outlaws 3 issue mini series in 2000.

----------


## Jackalope89

Please let it be about Jason and the Outlaws!

----------


## Zaresh

> There have been other Outlaws at DC.
> 
> There was an Outlaws Series in the early 90s.
> 
> And there was an Batman: Outlaws 3 issue mini series in 2000.


Hmmm. I don't think they're going to use such small IPs or publications to launch a new IP. They could easily go with a brand new IP for that. This is either an Outlaws (and Red Hood) game or an entirely new concept for the game alone, I guess.

I think it may end up being RHatO++ (the Outlaws being a broad concept). There were rumours about a new series for Red Hood in the DC streaming service a year and half ago. And then, they had a lot of positive feedback from games like Injustice 2. They know there is public interested in the character, and these make for free promotion on the net if the game is about their favourite team (but the fanbase isn't big enough that there will be too many fans who will complain and report negative feedback). Kind of what happened with Shazam or Guardians of the Galaxy in the movies, I think.

We will see. And soon, it seems.

----------


## Sergard

Okay, the game itself seems more and more unlikely. The original source of the rumor is 4chan. So everything is probably fake.
Maybe Friday will prove me wrong but I don't have high hopes for it.

(@Zaresh: Thanks for the Scott McCloud's books suggestion. I'll give them a try when I have some time.  :Big Grin: )

----------


## Aahz

> Hmmm. I don't think they're going to use such small IPs or publications to launch a new IP. They could easily go with a brand new IP for that. This is either an Outlaws (and Red Hood) game or an entirely new concept for the game alone, I guess


Even if it quite obscure, Batman:Outlaw could make for a fun game. It is basically the Batfamily on the run from some military black ops unit, that uses lots of attack helicopters. It's iirc a pretty action packed story.

----------


## Zaresh

> Even if it quite obscure, Batman:Outlaw could make for a fun game. It is basically the Batfamily on the run from some military black ops unit, that uses lots of attack helicopters. It's iirc a pretty action packed story.


Interesting.
They were speculating about a game like The Division, right? A game like that with that premise could be pretty cool, actually. Not the kind of game I usually play, but still, a fun game.

(@Sergard, just remember that they're not as much about drawing as they're about how to tell and understand stories in comic format as a whole)

----------


## Jackalope89

Come to think of it, a Red Hood and the Outlaws game could play a lot like the Saints Row games.

----------


## Lirica

I think a RHatO game would be cool, but at this point I've stopped listening to all the video game rumors. I've seen so many.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Restingvoice

"NEVERMIND

Outlaws is fake. The background is stolen from someone's ********** https://wittmannfx.**********.com/projects/lVrdKJ "

Right under the original tweet

Well that was quick

----------


## Arsenal

The idea was fun while it lasted

----------


## Zaresh

> "NEVERMIND
> 
> Outlaws is fake. The background is stolen from someone's ********** https://wittmannfx.**********.com/projects/lVrdKJ "
> 
> Right under the original tweet
> 
> Well that was quick


 :Frown:  Sigh. Too good to be true.

----------


## Arsenal

The entire New 52 RHATO run DCYou R/A runs are on the DC Universe apps. Issues 1 - 18 of the Rebirth run are on there as well.

----------


## Jackalope89

While fake, I still think a Saints Row style game with the Outlaws would be pretty right up the same style. Maybe combined with some of the fighting aspects of the Arkham gams?

----------


## Sergard

Look what I found on Reddit.
Thoughts?

Personally, I prefer Jason and Roy as friends but not as team partners (and I love it in general when Roy interacts with the batboys. There are only a few moments between him and Damian but those few I really enjoyed. I also believe that Roy and Tim could have a really great dynamic.) I would actually exchange Roy with Connor Hawke. I have a feeling that Jason and Connor could make an awesome team-up.

And I think this picture is meant to separate the families in "generations" - but I don't really care about that aspect. I actually dislike the idea that characters have to stick with their age group. (So that's a plus for the Outlaws since Artemis is older than Jason and Bizarro is only like a month old.)

I'd put Kyle or Guy in Jason's line. And call me crazy but I'd also like to see Jason and Jay Garrick interact.

No idea for the Aquaman family.

If this was an extended grid with more family members I'd put Kara and Barbara together - and Batwoman and John Stewart since both have a military background.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Look what I found on Reddit.
> Thoughts?
> 
> Personally, I prefer Jason and Roy as friends but not as team partners (and I love it in general when Roy interacts with the batboys. There are only a few moments between him and Damian but those few I really enjoyed. I also believe that Roy and Tim could have a really great dynamic.) I would actually exchange Roy with Connor Hawke. I have a feeling that Jason and Connor could make an awesome team-up.
> 
> And I think this picture is meant to separate the families in "generations" - but I don't really care about that aspect. I actually dislike the idea that characters have to stick with their age group. (So that's a plus for the Outlaws since Artemis is older than Jason and Bizarro is only like a month old.)
> 
> I'd put Kyle or Guy in Jason's line. And call me crazy but I'd also like to see Jason and Jay Garrick interact.
> 
> ...


The Aquaman family needs to be expanded. But having someone like Guy Gardner with the Outlaws would be interesting. Guy has clashed with Bruce a lot, but it would be interesting to seem him interact with Jason. As for a Speedster, what about Jessie Quick? She's not on that list, and would add another woman to the group.

Of course another Lantern to consider could be one from the Jessica Cruz/Simon Baz duo. Both are quite new, and are basically stuck in the shadows of the other Earth Green Lanterns.

----------


## Restingvoice

> The Aquaman family needs to be expanded. But having someone like Guy Gardner with the Outlaws would be interesting. Guy has clashed with Bruce a lot, but it would be interesting to seem him interact with Jason. As for a Speedster, what about Jessie Quick? She's not on that list, and would add another woman to the group.
> 
> Of course, another Lantern to consider could be one from the Jessica Cruz/Simon Baz duo. Both are quite new, and are basically stuck in the shadows of the other Earth Green Lanterns.


Speaking of Aquaman generation, how old is Tula? Garth is Dick's generation, Aquababy is basically Damian's, and Jackson Hyde is Tim's.

----------


## Zaresh

> Look what I found on Reddit.
> Thoughts?
> 
> Personally, I prefer Jason and Roy as friends but not as team partners (and I love it in general when Roy interacts with the batboys. There are only a few moments between him and Damian but those few I really enjoyed. I also believe that Roy and Tim could have a really great dynamic.) I would actually exchange Roy with Connor Hawke. I have a feeling that Jason and Connor could make an awesome team-up.
> 
> And I think this picture is meant to separate the families in "generations" - but I don't really care about that aspect. I actually dislike the idea that characters have to stick with their age group. (So that's a plus for the Outlaws since Artemis is older than Jason and Bizarro is only like a month old.)
> 
> I'd put Kyle or Guy in Jason's line. And call me crazy but I'd also like to see Jason and Jay Garrick interact.
> 
> ...


For the Aquaman counterpart, we could have a girl, for a change (but because I know near to nothing about Atlantis, I cannot give any name). And I don't know, but I wouldn't put Guy with him. Guy's the JLI lantern, he has his "League" team. Kyle, I don't know. Could work with a few tweaks I guess; but I suspect they could clash as much as Jason does with Dick (in any case, both are older than Jason, so not a same-age team, that's for sure. EDIT: wait, was Kyle older? We discussed this issue previously, and the conclusion was that he wasn't much older, right? ikn). For a speedster, I don't know either. Jay's an interesting choice, because let's be honest: badass grampas are cool (and he shares the name with Jason and that's funny). But he belongs to the JSA. I don't like the idea of Goodspeed. I stopped reading Flash because I got bored, and I did it around when that story arc finished. As far as I recall, he was a full-shaped villain, with no remorse or whatsoever about playing with/getting killed/killing innocent lives and stuff. And it wasn't even an original idea either (it reminded me of Zoom a lot). But maybe something else happened afterwards, I don't know. I'm still waiting for them to bring back Max Mercury (who was a very important supporting character for Wally and Bart. Zen elder Speedster), but he doesn't fit this team either (but ah, it's so pulpy...). Maybe we could use Jesse Quick somehow? I think she has been more a support character and a plot tool than anything (as far as I remember from my 90's Flash read. And for what I'm seeing in the wiki, she's mostly that in other books too).

But the thing is that I don't think we need to match the Justice League members. It makes me sad that Jason doesn't have his own counterparts, shows how isolated he has been and still is. But I think that not giving him a clone JL team could be interesting, a fresh read (one I could like as much as I liked the JL team that had Booster, Beetle, Mister Miracle, Black Canary, Guy...). Not every team needs to be a match 1:1. In fact, I think it's better if they're not.

----------


## Arsenal

I like the idea of the Outlaws being a mixed bag of misfits of various ages. Helps them stand out a bit instead of being based around another “generation” of heroes.

----------


## Aahz

About Connor vs. Roy. Connor has the benefit that he is not really close with any of the other Batfamily members (opposed to Roy who is also supposed to be one of Dicks closest friends). It is also kind of fitting since while Jason is the Black Sheep of the Batfamily, while Connor is probably the only Arrow Family member who is not deeply flawed. So he is kind of the opposite of Jason. (But I think Bonnie King like she was written in Young Justice could also be fun, if you want someone older on the team).

When it comes to a Green Lantern I think Gnort could fit. Guy I only know from his appearance in the classic JLI, and that didn't really make me a fan of this character and Kyle belongs more in Dick's Generation, and I at least in Count Down he and Jason really hate each other. (Or one could take someone from another Lantern Corps).

When it comes to the Flash Family, the only one I can come up with is Owen Mercer (Boomeren Jr.). Even if he has only minimal speedster powers, but he is roughly the right age, and was at least pre flashpoint Bart Allens Half-Brother.

----------


## oasis1313

> About Connor vs. Roy. Connor has the benefit that he is not really close with any of the other Batfamily members (opposed to Roy who is also supposed to be one of Dicks closest friends). It is also kind of fitting since while Jason is the Black Sheep of the Batfamily, while Connor is probably the only Arrow Family member who is not deeply flawed. So he is kind of the opposite of Jason. (But I think Bonnie King like she was written in Young Justice could also be fun, if you want someone older on the team).
> 
> When it comes to a Green Lantern I think Gnort could fit. Guy I only know from his appearance in the classic JLI, and that didn't really make me a fan of this character and Kyle belongs more in Dick's Generation, and I at least in Count Down he and Jason really hate each other. (Or one could take someone from another Lantern Corps).
> 
> When it comes to the Flash Family, the only one I can come up with is Owen Mercer (Boomeren Jr.). Even if he has only minimal speedster powers, but he is roughly the right age, and was at least pre flashpoint Bart Allens Half-Brother.


Hey, I LOVE the idea of bringing in Gnort!!!!!

----------


## Aahz

> EDIT: wait, was Kyle older? We discussed this issue previously, and the conclusion was that he wasn't much older, right? ikn).


Pre Flashpoint he was arround the age of Dick (maybe even a bit older). At the moment it is hard to say, since we don't even know the age differnce between Joson and Dick.




> Maybe we could use Jesse Quick somehow?


She was pre flashpoint one of the central members of the JSA, and she doesn't really fit the outlaws imo. But I never read the Flash series, so I have not really an Idea, which of the numerous Speedsters fits into an Anti Hero role, those that I know are either heroes or villains.

----------


## Lirica

> EDIT: wait, was Kyle older? We discussed this issue previously, and the conclusion was that he wasn't much older, right? ikn).


When it was last brought up here, you asked the question in Kyle's appreciation thread. I think the roundabout conclusion was that pre-flashpoint he was definitely in the age range of the original Titans. Someone reading his run said Kyle mentioned being in his early 20's in the earlier issues. Another stated that he was mentioned to be a bit younger than Wally. I'm also pretty sure Donna mentions being a bit older than him at some point.

Connor is kinda unofficially considered Jason's generation so-to-speak and Kyle's older than him, no?

---

Based on what the OP's criteria for the chart was:



> My criteria for this chart was at least some interactions between the members (that’s why I didn’t add Jason-August although I would absolutely love to see them interact)
> 
> I basically kept a maximum 1 family member per Batboy that’s why I don’t have Dick-Clark, Tim-Lagoon boy and Tim-Conner.
> 
> I also used Roy twice mainly because I feel like he really fits well with both Dick and Jason, he is part of the Original 5 Titans and is Jason’s best friend since new-52.


Jason should have Kyle as his GL, right? They interacted more than Dick and Kyle did (I only remember the Obsidian Age storyline and Hal's funeral)?

----------


## Aahz

> Connor is kinda unofficially considered Jason's generation so-to-speak and Kyle's older than him, no?


Connor was iirc pre Flashpoint closer in age to the original Titans (while Jason was techincally closer in age to Tim's generation), during his time as main Green Arrow, they did establish a friendship between him, Wally and Kyle.

But Connor and Jason are both in between Dick's and Tim's generation, but that was a gap of at least 8 years.

----------


## Aahz

Some rand thoughts about the chart:

- While Kyle is close with several members of Dick's Tiatans, I can remember that he and Interacted much, iirc Dick was usually not on the team when Kyle was

- Technically Jimmy Olsen is more Dicks counter part in the Superman family, they had even team ups and their own secret base in the silver age

- Tim has technically to Aquaman and two Arrow counterparts, Laggon Boy and Lorena Marquez, and Arrowette and Mia Dreaden

- Wally's kids would actually fit better in Damians generation than Wally II

- Jackson Hyde seems out of place in Damians generation, age wise he seems to belong in Jason's generation

----------


## HandofPrometheus

Jason can take Koryak if he ever needs an Aquafamily member. I would rather see Dolphin interact with him though.

----------


## Zaresh

> Pre Flashpoint he was arround the age of Dick (maybe even a bit older). At the moment it is hard to say, since we don't even know the age differnce between Joson and Dick.
> 
> She was pre flashpoint one of the central members of the JSA, and she doesn't really fit the outlaws imo. But I never read the Flash series, so I have not really an Idea, which of the numerous Speedsters fits into an Anti Hero role, those that I know are either heroes or villains.


As fa as I recall, she's not an anti-hero, but she has experience dealing with stubborn people (Wally) and people with problems of some sort (Bart). She also seems to have been through a lot, by what I see in the wiki. I don't know. From the Wally run as Flash, and what I read of Rebirth (the stuff I've read with a Flash in there, besides Flashpoint), there isn't a lot of anti-heros in that brand. I guess we can always bring back Walter, but, eh, with the direcion Wally's going now, it would be a bit redundant, I think. If it can be something else than a speedster, pre-FP Pied Piper sort of fit the criteria, I think. But he hasn't interacted with Jason and is older.

----------


## Aahz

> As fa as I recall, she's not an anti-hero, but she has experience dealing with stubborn people (Wally) and people with problems of some sort (Bart). She also seems to have been through a lot, by what I see in the wiki. I don't know.


But she was a leader of one Group of the JSA (iirc the more classic one) and was also later a JLA member.




> From the Wally run as Flash, and what I read of Rebirth (the stuff I've read with a Flash in there, besides Flashpoint), there isn't a lot of anti-heros in that brand. I guess we can always bring back Walter, but, eh, with the direcion Wally's going now, it would be a bit redundant, I think. If it can be something else than a speedster, pre-FP Pied Piper sort of fit the criteria, I think. But he hasn't interacted with Jason and is older.


Just based on a little bit of googeling (I know next to nothing about these characters), potential candidates seem for me:
- Owen Mercer/Capatin Boomerang Jr.
- Meena Dhawan/Negative Flash
- Alexa Antigone/Fuerza (a User of the Strength Force)
- Daniel West/Reverse-Flash (he wanted at least to become a Hero in Suicide Squad)

----------


## Zaresh

> But she was a leader of one Group of the JSA (iirc the more classic one) and was also later a JLA member.
> 
> Just based on a little bit of googeling (I know next to nothing about these characters), potential candidates seem for me:
> - Owen Mercer/Capatin Boomerang Jr.
> - Meena Dhawan/Negative Flash
> - Alexa Antigone/Fuerza (a User of the Strength Force)
> *- Daniel West/Reverse-Flash (he wanted at least to become a Hero in Suicide Squad*)


Daniel could be interesting, I think, by the little I know about him.

Meena is a supporting character for Barry, and she's heroic-ish, kind of how Huntress is, as far as I recall (she's also a very new character). Owen I don't know him, but I don't think DC would want two active captain boomerangs at the same time: he probably needs a new alias. I know nothing about Alexa, to be honest, but hey, I love gravity manipulation as a superpower: I would read that too.

----------


## RedBird

Jonboy Meyers



Looks like its based off of Soy's Red Ronin design  :Big Grin:

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

D47U7ruU4AABFl7.jpg
Jason's current design as drawn by Soy
https://twitter.com/dextersoy/status...67492120522758

----------


## Sergard

> [...]
> But the thing is that I don't think we need to match the Justice League members. It makes me sad that Jason doesn't have his own counterparts, shows how isolated he has been and still is. But I think that not giving him a clone JL team could be interesting, a fresh read (one I could like as much as I liked the JL team that had Booster, Beetle, Mister Miracle, Black Canary, Guy...). Not every team needs to be a match 1:1. In fact, I think it's better if they're not.


I agree that the Outlaws don't need to match the Justice League members 1:1 - and they better shouldn't. The Dark Trinity aspect is a nice idea and I hope the comic continues to use Jason, Bizarro and Artemis as core members of the Outlaws but there is no need to exaggerate the concept by turning the Dark Trinity in a Dark Justice League. Three is a good number and leaves some space for guest appearances and semi-regularly appearing characters. So it's actually better that there aren't 100% fitting counterparts for Jason in the other big franchises. There can only be so many people on a team before it feels too crowded. Not to forget that not every franchise can carry as many characters as the Batman franchise does - and there are a lot of great DC characters that don't belong to a "family", like Bunker.

Instead of a Speedster I want to see Eddie Bloomberg/Red Devil. I think he can teleport - but maybe I remember wrong. Although teleporting would be a good alternative to being fast.
And when it comes to characters who feel comfortable in the water: Killer Croc for the win.

But I'm still up for Jay Garrick having a guest appearance in the Red Hood comic.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I agree that the Outlaws don't need to match the Justice League members 1:1 - and they better shouldn't. The Dark Trinity aspect is a nice idea and I hope the comic continues to use Jason, Bizarro and Artemis as core members of the Outlaws but there is no need to exaggerate the concept by turning the Dark Trinity in a Dark Justice League. Three is a good number and leaves some space for guest appearances and semi-regularly appearing characters. So it's actually better that there aren't 100% fitting counterparts for Jason in the other big franchises. There can only be so many people on a team before it feels too crowded. Not to forget that not every franchise can carry as many characters as the Batman franchise does - and there are a lot of great DC characters that don't belong to a "family", like Bunker.
> 
> Instead of a Speedster I want to see Eddie Bloomberg/Red Devil. I think he can teleport - but maybe I remember wrong. Although teleporting would be a good alternative to being fast.
> And when it comes to characters who feel comfortable in the water: Killer Croc for the win.
> 
> But I'm still up for Jay Garrick having a guest appearance in the Red Hood comic.


Hate to say it, but I think Eddie was killed at some point, off screen, in the past. Justice League Dark was going into an arc with Detective Chimp going down memory road about that.

----------


## Zaresh

> Hate to say it, but I think Eddie was killed at some point, off screen, in the past. Justice League Dark was going into an arc with Detective Chimp going down memory road about that.


He has been killed in Heroes in Crisis.

----------


## Jackalope89

> He has been killed in Heroes in Crisis.


I thought that was Blue Devil?

Still though. HiC is driving me further and further from most of DC's works. Red Hood being one of the exceptions.

----------


## Zaresh

> I thought that was Blue Devil?
> 
> Still though. HiC is driving me further and further from most of DC's works. Red Hood being one of the exceptions.


It was Eddie.

I remember it was him because it added to the list of ex-titans who were killed. If I recall correctly, he even had one of those pages where the patients present themselves.

----------


## Sergard

I know that Eddie died in HiC - and I don't care. Either ignore it or bring him back. Eddie is pretty much a demon by now. He'll probably just respawn in hell and return to earth. Easy fix.

----------


## Zaresh

> I know that Eddie died in HiC - and I don't care. Either ignore it or bring him back. Eddie is pretty much a demon by now. He'll probably just respawn in hell and return to earth. Easy fix.


Yeah. He should be easy to bring back.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I know that Eddie died in HiC - and I don't care. Either ignore it or bring him back. Eddie is pretty much a demon by now. He'll probably just respawn in hell and return to earth. Easy fix.


Problem is, DC would rather focus on HiC and keep it canonical and other such depressing things, rather than on, well, hopeful things lately. 

And we can't forget, this is "Year of the Villain", after all.

----------


## Sergard

Pete Woods

----------


## Sergard

Javchan:"_I cant be the only one who thought of this when the new Red Hood design came out. XD_ "

----------


## Zaresh

> Javchan:"_I cant be the only one who thought of this when the new Red Hood design came out. XD_ "


Ha ha. That one's adorable.

----------


## Sergard

Curran Walters as Jason Todd in Titans season 2.


(found here)


Every time I see Curran Walters as Jason Todd with that messy hair I feel like Alfred Pennyworth is hiding somewhere with a hairbrush waiting for the right moment when Jason isn't paying enough attention so that he can overwhelm him and "fix" his hair.

----------


## Zaresh

> Curran Walters as Jason Todd in Titans season 2.
> 
> 
> (found here)
> 
> 
> Every time I see Curran Walters as Jason Todd with that messy hair I feel like Alfred Pennyworth is hiding somewhere with a hairbrush waiting for the right moment when Jason isn't paying enough attention so that he can overwhelm him and "fix" his hair.


Honestly, I think I like him in this version of Jason more each time I see a new picture of him in costume.

----------


## Sergard

Finalized cover of Red Hood: Outlaw #34:




I love the coherent color choice but I'm not feeling the font.

----------


## Jackalope89

The funny thing is, I could see Jason doing it just to troll him. lol

----------


## G-Potion

> Javchan:"_I cant be the only one who thought of this when the new Red Hood design came out. XD_ "


The poses are killing me.  :Big Grin:

----------


## Sergard

More artwork by Javchan:

----------


## G-Potion

Their chibis are adorable. I hope we'll see more from them.

----------


## Arsenal

Some new info about July's YOTV stuff 
“And then in July, across the whole line, you’ll see Lex appear in the different books - basically every book - and offer the villain of that book something special and particular to that character that says, this is how you beat your hero.

And the villain will either take that offer or not take that offer. Maybe the hero will take that offer. Each story is particular to the writer and artist on that book”


“So the prompt from Lex Luthor, when he offers something to the villain of that book, is really based on whatever the writer/artist team of that book have decided to do or not do.We want you to feel like each thing is an individuated read and singular to your experience - not something that’s going to be co-opted by the story I’m talking about. But at the same time, if a writer and artist choose to tie in, and basically, everybody has, they’ve chosen to do so in a way that elevates the story you’re reading to the highest stakes possible.”

https://www.newsarama.com/44899-scot...nd-battle.html

Guess that means the sidekicks in RH:O #36 come from Lobdell & not Snyder.

----------


## oasis1313

Reminds me of the old party game "Pin the Tail on the Donkey", or its more current version, "Pin the Ear on Van Gogh."

----------


## Zaresh

But is this a one-issue thing or are the sidekicks going to be in the book for a while? I just hope they don't push any storyline the writer had planned further in the future.

----------


## G-Potion

Well that's vastly preferable to the usual way ties in are handled across the books. Plus Luthor being involved with the Outlaws since the beginning helps with his reappearance now.

----------


## Arsenal

Jason still owes Luthor for saving Biz, doesn’t he?

----------


## Zaresh

Yeah, you're right. At least, we're lucky enough that Luthor was involved in the book at some point with the story of Bizarro and also with Artemis and the stuff that happened in Hierve el Agua. I hope Lobdell can use it to make the whole story work better.

----------


## Sergard

JJMK

----------


## Sergard

Dam_ATM_jason




dori_yagi

----------


## Jackalope89

Jason, stop! lol

----------


## Sergard

bingsu_up

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> JJMK


The lack of the N52 Robin suit (the best one in my opinion) is bothering me a lot.

----------


## Sergard

bingsu_up

----------


## Sergard

> The lack of the N52 Robin suit (the best one in my opinion) is bothering me a lot.


Every Robin suit with pants is a win for me.
I don't like the classic costume but JJMK's art style actually makes it look good.

----------


## Zaresh

> bingsu_up


Ok, these are just too adorable. I love the pencil feel and gesture too.

----------


## Aahz

> The lack of the N52 Robin suit (the best one in my opinion) is bothering me a lot.


Somehow non of the official designs really fits imo for Jason.
Dick's and Damian's costume really reflect their back ground as Circus Artist and League Of Assassins Member.
But of Jasons designs, non gives me really the vibe of a tough street rat.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Because the Red Hood costumes are the ones that reflect that, the Robin ones are him trying to fill Dick's shoes. The N52 one at least is unique to him instead of just being Dick's hand-me-downs.

----------


## Sergard

YolinArt





RedRidingHood (based on a picture/maybe meme)

----------


## Jackalope89

> YolinArt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RedRidingHood (based on a picture/maybe meme)


I can't help but feel if there was another image to go along with the second, Biz would suddenly appear, blocking the view, shepherding the viewers elsewhere.

----------


## Sergard

nullphy

----------


## Sergard

nullphy

----------


## Jackalope89

Aw, that's funny!

----------


## Sergard

Javchan

----------


## Sergard

Sammie Zhou

----------


## Sergard

SdimoBakto

----------


## oasis1313

TOTALLY the best fan-art is here!

----------


## G-Potion

> SdimoBakto


That's a nice look for Jason. Soft.  :Smile:

----------


## RedBird

> That's a nice look for Jason. Soft.


I think alongside the usual split middle bangs look and the messy swept back look for Jason, Soy's rebirth art has definitely solidified the kpop mid length hair as one of Jasons go to styles for fan artists to now use.  :Big Grin:

----------


## Sergard

Since not everyone is following the Reread thread, here a little reminder that the character Nocturna has finally been introduced in case someone wants to join in now.

----------


## Aahz

I was just reading in the DC Comics Ultimate Character Guide, New Edition interestingly both Joker and Ras Al Ghul have listet Red hood as one of their main enemies in their entries.

----------


## Sergard

> I was just reading in the DC Comics Ultimate Character Guide, New Edition interestingly both Joker and Ras Al Ghul have listet Red hood as one of their main enemies in their entries.


It's probably harder to find more than one enemy for a villain since villains are normally only part of one rogue gallery.
Who are Jason's enemies?

----------


## RedBird

> I was just reading in the DC Comics Ultimate Character Guide, New Edition interestingly both Joker and Ras Al Ghul have listet Red hood as one of their main enemies in their entries.


Joker has Batman, Batgirl and Red Hood. I get the feeling this has something to do with the upcoming three Jokers story line.

Still pretty cool to see Jason featured as an enemy to major villains like Joker and Ras. That's when ya know you've made it lol. I wonder if he'll also be an enemy to Black Mask.

----------


## Aahz

> Who are Jason's enemies?


Jasons entry only lists Joker.But he is also on listed in Dick's, Tim's and Barbara's entry.

Btw. at 6'0'' and 225 lbs, Jason seems also to be the bulkiest normal human listed in the book (if we ignore guys like Bane, and Killer Croc).

----------


## Sergard

> Jasons entry only lists Joker.But he is also on listed in Dick's, Tim's and Barbara's entry.
> 
> Btw. at 6'0'' and 225 lbs, Jason seems also to be the bulkiest normal human listed in the book (if we ignore guys like Bane, and Killer Croc).


I think editors don't pay that much attention to heights and weights being coherent. At least since New52 started, Jason hasn't looked heavier than Bruce.
Morrison's "Jason" looked like 225 lbs. But the character also had red hair and a phallus helmet.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Jasons entry only lists Joker.*But he is also on listed in Dick's, Tim's and Barbara's entry.*
> 
> Btw. at 6'0'' and 225 lbs, Jason seems also to be the bulkiest normal human listed in the book (if we ignore guys like Bane, and Killer Croc).


Wait what!? Does that mean he doesn't consider them foes but they view him as such?

That's not right.

----------


## Aahz

> Morrison's "Jason" looked like 225 lbs. But the character also had red hair and a phallus helmet.


Wood's version look also quite bulky on occasion.

But I wouldn't mind if Jason was drawn taller and bulkier, I don't like if they draw him that much shorter and slimmer than Bruce, like for example in issue #31 where was a head shorter than Bruce.

----------


## Sergard

> Wait what!? Does that mean he doesn't consider them foes but they view him as such?
> 
> That's not right.


Joker is on Dick's, Tim's and Barbara's list. Not Jason. (in case that's the confusion; otherwise: it would probably have been easier to write "batfamily" as Joker's enemy. Is there even one batfamily member who hasn't met the Joker yet in some way?)




> Wood's version look also quite bulky on occasion.
> 
> But I wouldn't mind if Jason was drawn taller and bulkier, I don't like if they draw him that much shorter and slimmer than Bruce, like for example in issue #31 where was a head shorter than Bruce.


The height difference in #31 was strange, I agree. I preferred #27 when Woods drew Jason and Bruce pretty much the same height in the hug scene. Even Soy drew Jason a little too short compared to Bruce during his run.

----------


## Zaresh

That's bulkier than Bruce and I definitely wouldn't draw him that way. Heroic canon is usually very unrealistic, and when you take into account how flexible and light he has to fight most of the time, nope, definitely wouldn't make any sense. Moderation is a wonderful concept in this case. Maybe heavier than Dick (and taller), but not than Bruce.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Joker is on Dick's, Tim's and Barbara's list. Not Jason. (in case that's the confusion; otherwise: it would probably have been easier to write "batfamily" as Joker's enemy. Is there even one batfamily member who hasn't met the Joker yet in some way?)


Thanks for clearing that up. I misunderstood. I thought they had Jason as a foe to Dick, Tim and Babs which isn't right.

----------


## Aahz

> Is there even one batfamily member who hasn't met the Joker yet in some way?


Depends who you count as Batfamily member at the moment and what stories you count as canon.


If we are talking about the current incarmations, im pretty sure Cass, Helena, Jean-Paul and Luke have not met the Joker sofar and I think that's also the case for Kate and Steph (but I'm not completely sure since both were at least in a tie in to endgame). The Dick, Jason, Tim, Damian and Barbara were all in Death of the Family (and met him in previous stories). Duke met him in Endgame and the Metal prelude. Selina met him in the Wedding Story arc (and I think we can assume that they have met before).

----------


## Jackalope89

> That's bulkier than Bruce and I definitely wouldn't draw him that way. Heroic canon is usually very unrealistic, and when you take into account how flexible and light he has to fight most of the time, nope, definitely wouldn't make any sense. Moderation is a wonderful concept in this case. Maybe heavier than Dick (and taller), but not than Bruce.


Well, according to the wiki, Jason is is supposed to be right about 6 feet tall and 225lbs. Easily the biggest of the Robins both in height and weight (most of which is muscle). Bruce is supposed to be 6'2 210lbs. A little taller, but not as heavy as Jason.

----------


## Sergard

nockuth

----------


## Zaresh

> Well, according to the wiki, Jason is is supposed to be right about 6 feet tall and 225lbs. Easily the biggest of the Robins both in height and weight (most of which is muscle). Bruce is supposed to be 6'2 210lbs. A little taller, but not as heavy as Jason.


Which is why I think that's nonsense. Whoever gave those measures, didn't know what they were giving measures to.

----------


## Sergard

sib

----------


## oasis1313

> Well, according to the wiki, Jason is is supposed to be right about 6 feet tall and 225lbs. Easily the biggest of the Robins both in height and weight (most of which is muscle). Bruce is supposed to be 6'2 210lbs. A little taller, but not as heavy as Jason.


I never buy that.  To me, Bruce is a lot taller than 6'2", maybe like 6'7 and about 280 pounds.  He should be intimidating criminals by just LOOMING over them.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I never buy that.  To me, Bruce is a lot taller than 6'2", maybe like 6'7 and about 280 pounds.  He should be intimidating criminals by just LOOMING over them.


Bane is about 6'8. But Bruce does need to be able to fit into normal society.

That's what the high heels are for.

----------


## Zaresh

> Bane is about 6'8. But Bruce does need to be able to fit into normal society.
> 
> That's what the high heels are for.


High heels are awful for runing, jumping and other physical activities. I know you're joking, but.. I hate high heels with passion. Normal, low heels have a pass though.

I think Bruce being as far as 6'4 is still reasonable. I don't know about weight, but somewhere built as a very tall martial artist (or maybe a wrestler) of middle age could be believable. Add to that body armour and the frame of  the cowl and the cape over some somehow broad shoulders, and he's pretty intimidating.

----------


## CPSparkles

> Bane is about 6'8. But Bruce does need to be able to fit into normal society.
> 
> That's what the high heels are for.


Lol I like the idea of Bruce wearing heeled shoes [if it's good enough for the female heroes] and padding his suit to make himself look taller and bulkier.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Crap, issue 33 didn't made into the top 100.

----------


## Zaresh

> Crap, issue 33 didn't made into the top 100.


Saw it. It's weird. Nightwing too, was lower than usual, and other books you usually see in different places of the list.

I would wait for the Comichron list and numbers before starting to feel pesimistic :/.

----------


## Aahz

> Saw it. It's weird.


Not really there are a lot of #1 issues in the list, which pushes the books on the low end of the list a few places down. Most of these books will drop out of the Top 100 quite soon, and the other books will climb up a few places again.

----------


## Sergard

> Which is why I think that's nonsense. Whoever gave those measures, didn't know what they were giving measures to.


According to the DC Comics Ultimate Character Guide, Harley Quinn has a BMI of 18. That's already slightly underweight.
That's so strange. Harley has a very athletic body (like most other females in comics) but she looks well-fed enough to assume that her BMI is in the normal range.

----------


## Aahz

> According to the DC Comics Ultimate Character Guide, Harley Quinn has a BMI of 18. That's already slightly underweight.
> That's so strange. Harley has a very athletic body (like most other females in comics) but she looks well-fed enough to assume that her BMI is in the normal range.


Some of the stats are questionable, and some characters have to sets of stats that were frequently used. Harley is for example listed some times at 115lb and sometimes at 140 lbs.

Damians stats in that book are really wired, he is 5'4'' (wich would make him 10 inches taller than Jon) but they left his wight an iirc 84lbs., (previousy he was listed at 4'6'' and 84 lbs.)

In case of Jason i like he idea of him being bulkier and stronger than Bruce, even if thats doesn't really matches the art. I also don' think that it would be a problem with "how flexible and light he has to fight".

----------


## Zaresh

> Not really there are a lot of #1 issues in the list, which pushes the books on the low end of the list a few places down. Most of these books will drop out of the Top 100 quite soon, and the other books will climb up a few places again.


Oh, might be that. And the events, too, I guess.

----------


## Zaresh

> Some of the stats are questionable, and some characters have to sets of stats that were frequently used. Harley is for example listed some times at 115lb and sometimes at 140 lbs.
> 
> Damians stats in that book are really wired, he is 5'4'' (wich would make him 10 inches taller than Jon) but they left his wight an iirc 84lbs., (previousy he was listed at 4'6'' and 84 lbs.)
> 
> In case of Jason i like he idea of him being bulkier and stronger than Bruce, even if thats doesn't really matches the art. I also don' think that it would be a problem with "how flexible and light he has to fight".


Well, this is how I see it, and of course, this is superhero fictional stories and you need to work with the suspension of disbelief: so it really doesn't matter how they look. But for the sake of explaining myself, this is how I work with how they should look for me to feel they're somehow "right".

I don't know about other sports, but people who do gymnastics, even when they're built, heavy, very muscular (male and female alike, even if the women tend to be slimmer than they need for whatever reason) aren't very big. Even the guys, who are very, very bulky in the upper half. Same happens with dancers, and people who do roller skating (three activities that demand a lot of jumps, spins and the like while being on the move. Like being a vigilante the kind of Jason, Tim or Dick would. Steph, Barbara and Cass too, rely on the same type of tricks and moves as far as I know).

I am going to guess that's because two reasons. First one, because when you're very heavy, you need to move that weight with yourself, that means you need to put your own body under a lot of stress, and that doesn't go well with the heart and the rick of developing some cardiovascular disease by wearing out the system.
Second one, because the more the surface you take up, the bigger of a target you are, the more you need to cover yourself, etc. I know that muscles make for a wonderful cushion (they saved my uncle once in an accident, and he wasn't even that fit), but they still bleed and they wear armour anyways, so it really doesn't matter how much muscle they hold that way.

I'll be honest about another thing too: I don't know if being flexible is incompatible with being bulky. My intuition says yes, but I don't know why or if it's true. And I also dislike bulky-like-a-brick body types, so there is that too, as for why I don't like the idea of Jason being bulkier than the already-too-big-but-thats-ok-because-archetypes Bruce.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

We're back to pre Outlaw numbers

105. RED HOOD OUTLAW #32 (DC) - 18,389 [105]

----------


## Sergard

> We're back to pre Outlaw numbers
> 
> 105. RED HOOD OUTLAW #32 (DC) - 18,389 [105]


Well, that's actually surprising. I thought #32 would do better. If I remember correctly, the issue even reached 3rd place on readdc's Top 10 Bestsellers in its release week. Seems like digital and print sales don't have to correlate.

----------


## Zaresh

> Well, that's actually surprising. I thought #32 would do better. If I remember correctly, the issue even reached 3rd place on readdc's Top 10 Bestsellers in its release week. Seems like digital and print sales don't have to correlate.


Maybe someone knows better than myself, but If I recall correctly, RHATO has been doing well digitally for a long while (probably because people like myself). There are other books that do well both, and books, few, that do way better digital than physical. I guess it depends on the target audience. I suspect the younger, the more digital. Same for niche oriented series. In any case, digital market is still small, I think. It is bigger in places like Japan, though.

In any case, maybe we will get a little lift for #33, when people would've gotten notice of the coming back to Gotham.

----------


## Sergard

dev jason todd // playing hollow knight

----------


## Aahz

But apart from some extreme cases like the injustice comics, that were usually top 5 sellers digitally, but had pretty poor sales physically, the digital sales are not really a huge factor. And the RHTAO postion on the comixology charts is usually correlates with the physical sales.

To really bring up the sales again, they would probably need to do some kind of bigger event/crossover (similar to what they did with Deathstroke).

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

There are some worrying rumors about the upcoming YOV special making the rounds.
*spoilers:*
Word is that it heavily implies that Jason is indeed Leviathan and that somehow convinces Barbara to work with him
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Arsenal

> There are some worrying rumors about the upcoming YOV special making the rounds.
> *spoilers:*
> Word is that it heavily implies that Jason is indeed Leviathan and that somehow convinces Barbara to work with him
> *end of spoilers*


The only way that makes sense would be if he’s one of B-man who Laughs Secret Six. Yet it wouldn’t make any sense to pick a character that has an ongoing solo(ish) book for a member of the S6.

----------


## G-Potion

> There are some worrying rumors about the upcoming YOV special making the rounds.
> *spoilers:*
> Word is that it heavily implies that Jason is indeed Leviathan and that somehow convinces Barbara to work with him
> *end of spoilers*


Can I have source?

----------


## Sergard

The rumor sounds more like some new fake info from 4chan or somewhere else.




> The only way that makes sense would be if he’s one of B-man who Laughs Secret Six. Yet it wouldn’t make any sense to pick a character that has an ongoing solo(ish) book for a member of the S6.


I had a similar thought. But for Barbara. She's behaving strange in HiC.
Do we know anything about the Secret Six? I know that they are sleepers and that they are known heroes, or? And they are part of the Batman Who Laughs' plan. But what are they supposed to do?

----------


## Arsenal

The YOV specially coming out tomorrow should (in theory) clear up the purpose behind the S6. At the moment it seems very “Secret Invasion” ish minus the little green aliens.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Can I have source?


4chan, same guy that leaked HiC #8 in advance.

----------


## redmax99

> The only way that makes sense would be if hes one of B-man who Laughs Secret Six. Yet it wouldnt make any sense to pick a character that has an ongoing solo(ish) book for a member of the S6.


but jason being leviathan was rumor since last August! they wanted one of the batfamily member probably one of the robins and jason was the most logical chose, as for barbra being rope into this is whats worries me.

----------


## Korath

I don't know if it really bothers me. This Leviathan seems to want to make the organization useful to all, but through misguided methods, if I remember right what I read about the event being promoted by Bendis. I could totally see Jason doing it.

----------


## Jackalope89

> The rumor sounds more like some new fake info from 4chan or somewhere else.
> 
> 
> 
> I had a similar thought. But for Barbara. She's behaving strange in HiC.
> *Do we know anything about the Secret Sex?* I know that they are sleepers and that they are known heroes, or? And they are part of the Batman Who Laughs' plan. But what are they supposed to do?


They did the deed without telling anyone.

----------


## Sergard

> They did the deed without telling anyone.


Freudian slip  :Embarrassment:

----------


## Zaresh

> 4chan, same guy that leaked HiC #8 in advance.


Ah, the guy from the LCS. I can believe the rumour if it's him. He was very pissed about people not believing him, he's like me, I think: he hates being called a liar, wouldn't like for the sale of trolling. If it really was him leaking stuff, I mean.

Sigh.

I hate events.
With passion, as much as high heels, if not more.

----------


## Sergard

Matcha Rain

----------


## Sergard

Interview with Brian Michael Bendis:




> My mandate since I’ve got to DC has been as cool as the classic villains are is that we need new villains and villains that speak to what’s been going on in the world now and what’s been going on in the heroes’ lives now. I’ve been adding new villains to Superman’s books, and Leviathan is among them. What I’m excited about is that we’re all hunkering down and doing our big stories with our villains, and we realized we’ve got a lot of cool villain stories going on at the same time, so here we are.


Leviathan is a new character/villain. So it can't be Jason.
Case closed.

----------


## Zaresh

> Interview with Brian Michael Bendis:
> 
> Leviathan is a new character/villain. So it can't be Jason.
> Case closed.


An organization can be called a villain too, I think. I wouldn't dismiss these fears yet.
On the other hand, he's right about needing new villains. But the thing is, Leviatan isn't new as far as I know, and he does know too, right? He mentioned Leviatan's past in the books in Superman or Action Comics recently. Neither would be Jason as a villain \o/.

----------


## Sergard

Should I add another column titled "guest appearances" to the Sales Statistics? For example, there would be Solomon Grundy for issue 12 and Lex Luthor for issue 13.

It's not really that relevant for sales but maybe a nice info to know.

----------


## Zaresh

> Should I add another column titled "guest appearances" to the Sales Statistics? For example, there would be Solomon Grundy for issue 12 and Lex Luthor for issue 13.
> 
> It's not really that relevant for sales but maybe a nice info to know.


Yeah, sure. That would be very nice  :Smile: .

----------


## Sergard

Life sucks so hard right now. Preview of Event Leviathan (+Interview)

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine



----------


## Arsenal

That feels more like a fake out than a reveal

----------


## Zaresh

> _(Here goes a page from Leviathan)_


*spoilers:*
Can't say I didn't see it coming (Jason as a part in the plot). Can't say I did see it coming (Damian trying to prove Jason wasn't the bad guy). As usually, I dislike the voice Bendis gives the characters (they all tend to sound the same—Not saying that's a bad thing, just something I don't like. An opinion based in my perception); and, unless Damian changed his view on Jason in Teen Titans (I don't read TT, so I may be wrong), I think this is a bit at odds with how he acted there.
*end of spoilers*

Maybe we should spoil all this stuff for a few days, @Dark.

----------


## Restingvoice

> 


Chapter Two? Not him then. ^^

----------


## Arsenal

Having both Jason & Talia appear behind Damian seems random. Hope there’s some context that we are missing opposed to it just being random.

----------


## Zaresh

> Having both Jason & Talia appear behind Damian seems random. Hope there’s some context that we are missing opposed to it just being random.


It's not really that random, maybe. Jason has a history with Talia, Talia was the one behind the first Leviatan (as far as I recall), and I think she's dead right now? And Damian has connection to both. So...

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Maybe we should spoil all this stuff for a few days, @Dark.


Is part of the official preview released by DC. No reason to use spoilers.

----------


## Zaresh

> Is part of the official preview released by DC. No reason to use spoilers.


Oh, Ok then. I though it was a part of the actual whole issue already.

----------


## Sergard

Talia is alive (again). She died in Silencer but her death only lasted a few chapters.

Jason looks so squeezed in the last panel.

Suddenly Damian acts like he cares about Jason. Damian drove a dart into Jason's hip in the TT Annual because he thought Jason is working for a villain.
But who knows what Damian is thinking. Maybe he's playing nice until he finds proof that Jason crossed lines so that he can aim the next time for Jason's head when Bruce isn't looking.


Sorry, I'm annoyed. I don't think this event will end good for Jason.
In the worst case scenario this will be the return of Dick "Golden Boy" Grayson who'll save everyone except Jason because Jason gets thrown into a cell in Arkham next to Joker.

----------


## Arsenal

The Robin in the preview honestly “sounds” a lot more like Tim than he does Damian.

----------


## Zaresh

Well, as usual, let's not get ahead of ourselves and see how the whole thing unravels in the end.

But yeah, I'm not so hopeful either. The only things that give me hope are that we still have an ongoing with a clear plot lined for the next few months that apparently has little to do with anything Leviathan (but could be wrong: solicits were ambiguous enough); that it seems that Barbara is somehow involved in the same side and not against?; and that the 3 Jokers story will need Jason as a somewhat vigilante to work, and not another Doctor No rip-off.

----------


## redmax99

does this sound like Damian to you calling jason by his full name instead of todd or just jason or referring to jason as bruce old partner instead of and insult

----------


## Arsenal

How many of the plot threads (Wingman & his group, The darkness Essence was talking about , etc) set up in the current arc are gonna end up being connected to the YOTV stuff?

----------


## Jackalope89

Well, Bendis can't write Damian for crap. Not that he's the easiest to write, but that didn't sound anything like him. And the inevitable reunion between Jon and Damian is making me dread it even more than before.

----------


## G-Potion

> How many of the plot threads (Wingman & his group, The darkness Essence was talking about , etc) set up in the current arc are gonna end up being connected to the YOTV stuff?


I'd say they fit pretty well. Jason heading down the dark path at break neck speed according to the solicits. So far we haven't seen any reasons why Lobdell chose Wingman to be part of Jason's entourage. He didn't need to wear Jason's old alias to make a pitch. That leaves Leviathan as the only explanation for Wingman, and the finale of Batman Inc was Jason/Bruce against Talia so cosmic irony if Damian's suspicion turns true I guess?

Also Woods said last last pages of #36 is gonna change everything. I wonder how that syncs up with Bendis's story.

----------


## G-Potion

> Chapter Two? Not him then. ^^


Or it's him because everyone already crossed him out of their suspected list.  ;p

----------


## Zaresh

> I'd say they fit pretty well. Jason heading down the dark path at break neck speed according to the solicits. So far we haven't seen any reasons why Lobdell chose Wingman to be part of Jason's entourage. He didn't need to wear Jason's old alias to make a pitch. That leaves Leviathan as the only explanation for Wingman, and the finale of Batman Inc was Jason/Bruce against Talia so cosmic irony if Damian's suspicion turns true I guess?
> 
> Also Woods said last last pages of #36 is gonna change everything. I wonder how that syncs up with Bendis's story.


Well, true. They could work the story in RHATO to actually fit and go by the hand with him being the Leviathan guy, without a lot of trouble. Solicits are vague enough for it to work and we don't know yet any of them past July (August seems to be a key month for the event). It's just that, in my case, I feel like it shouldn't be an event that is actually centered around another whole franchise (Superman and to a less degree, Batman) decide the future status and fate of a smaller book series and its character. I'm buying RHATO for its story, I don't plan to buy Leviathan. I like to read my book as a whole story, not supplementary material for another book I'm not interested in. It would be like having to buy another book to get the end of a story, and having to buy a few trades of that new book to really get the ending--and I don't do that. I prefer to straight drop the book. Not to mention that the people who would read Leviathan wouldn't go to RHATO to read why Jason would be a bad guy here, whatever the reason he has behind, or however he gives a solution to his conflict and may get back to be an antihero; and that means that people would get only that he's a bad guy again, as a sort of new status quo.

That is, in the hypothetical case of Jason being Leviathan, and Leviathan being evil.

Which could not be the case \o/.

----------


## Sergard

Well, DC's Year of the Villain Special (2019-) #1 is out and it's free.

There's only one other panel that shows Jason though - and it's his face on a holographic monitor.
I'd be much more relaxed about that whole event if Artemis and Bizarro were back.

----------


## adrikito

Jason in DC year of the vilain:




> Attachment 81822

----------


## adrikito

Our bizarro or a new version created for Luthor? He appears in one page called *BAD BY DESIGN* that talks about luthor and villains..

dc year villain bizarro.jpg

----------


## Badou

A lot of people guessed that the red masked guy in Bendis' Leviathan event was Jason but that felt way too obvious because of the design, but it seems he is or Bendis will be playing around with the idea at least.

----------


## Sergard

> Our bizarro or a new version created for Luthor? He appears in one page called *BAD BY DESIGN* that talks about luthor and villains..
> 
> dc year villain bizarro.jpg


Hard to guess. But why would any Bizarro wear an armor like that? Bizarro has Superman's powers so that stuff doesn't give him more protection.
Some of the other designs are interesting. There's a Deathstroke Rose Wilson. But Jericho is the one that gets an offer from Lex - and Jericho is shown amongs the heroes Batman wants to recruit.

----------


## adrikito

> There's a Deathstroke Rose Wilson. But Jericho is the one that gets an offer from Lex - and Jericho is shown amongs the heroes Batman wants to recruit.


I am surprised and confused for this with Jericho and even more with Rose... Slade appeared in the image that Luthor was observing many characters while he was talking with Brainiac. 

However, maybe all this starts before Slade "death"..

----------


## RedBird

> The Robin in the preview honestly “sounds” a lot more like Tim than he does Damian.


I know right? Sounds way more like Tim.

I've been relatively enjoying YJ but this page makes me think that Bendis doesn't necessarily have a unique voice for Tim more so than he thinks that this is just the way ROBINTM talks.


Also that page is almost beautifully stupid in that 'cliffhanger lead up sentence', the more I come across it and read it, the goofier it gets.

The Red Hood.......Your Old Partner.......Jason Todd.

Like Thank God Bendis clarified that. Poor Bruce is a bit of a dunce. I'm sure when Damian said Red Hood, Bruce was thinking of someone else......Like maybe Joker....so its a good thing Damian clarified and said 'your old partner'........But you know just in case Bruce was still thinking it may be another ex partner/robin of his, who is calling themselves the Red Hood, Damian kindly went on further and clarified that he was referring to Jason Todd. Whew, glad we cleared that up. XD

----------


## Sergard

> I know right? Sounds way more like Tim.
> 
> I've been relatively enjoying YJ but this page makes me think that Bendis doesn't necessarily have a unique voice for Tim more so than he thinks that this is just the way ROBINTM talks.
> 
> 
> Also that page is almost beautifully stupid in that 'cliffhanger lead up sentence', the more I come across it and read it, the goofier it gets.
> 
> The Red Hood.......Your Old Partner.......Jason Todd.
> 
> Like Thank God Bendis clarified that. Poor Bruce is a bit of a dunce. I'm sure when Damian said Red Hood, Bruce was thinking of someone else......Like maybe Joker....so its a good thing Damian clarified and said 'your old partner'........But you know just in case Bruce was still thinking it may be another ex partner/robin of his, who is calling themselves the Red Hood, Damian kindly went on further and clarified that he was referring to Jason Todd. Whew, glad we cleared that up. XD


At this point I would have preferred Tim over Damian. It would have fitted his character better to have a bad feeling about something and to be torn between his intuition as detective and his family bonds.
I also imagine Tim to be more inclined to ask for help than doing everything on his own.

I'm surprised that the heroes spread in DC's Year of the Villain Special (2019-) #1 does not include Young Justice, but the Titans and (half of the) Teen Titans are there.

The Red Hood of Gotham ... did I miss something? Has there ever been a Red Hood of somewhere else? But I know, that's a little nitpicky. YotV is a big event. There'll be a lot of readers who aren't that familiar with the bat family. So all that goofy information is probably very helpful to others.

----------


## redmax99

]B]The Red Hood of Gotham... did I miss something? Has there ever been a Red Hood of somewhere else?[/B] But I know, that's a little nitpicky. YotV is a big event. There'll be a lot of readers who aren't that familiar with the bat family. So all that goofy information is probably very helpful to others.[/QUOTE]

Well Jason is the main red hood known all over the world, but there are other's who still use the red hood alias committing petty crime or trying to use the identity to follow in his foot step

----------


## RedBird

> There'll be a lot of readers who aren't that familiar with the bat family. So all that goofy information is probably very helpful to others.


Of course, but that's like my point. 
Nothing wrong with exposition in and of itself, but, it can be done smoothly where the dialogue feels natural and the lead up feels logical, and it can also be done, like THAT XD.

----------


## RedBird

JJMK-JJMK








_Antihero landing_

----------


## Sergard

> Well Jason is the main red hood known all over the world, but there are other's who still use the red hood alias committing petty crime or trying to use the identity to follow in his foot step


Do you have an example for that? The last and only time I've seen more than one Red Hood was in a flashback during the old RHatO run which showed the Red Hood gang, and even there I'm not sure if the members were called Red Hoods or not.







> Of course, but that's like my point. 
> Nothing wrong with exposition in and of itself, but, it can be done smoothly where the dialogue feels natural and the lead up feels logical, and it can also be done, like THAT XD.


That's true. I wonder if Jason was really the first choice. Everything about that last panel looks so squeezed - Jason and the information. And Talia also being in the panel.
Maybe the panel changed from only Talia to Talia and Jason with Jason being the main focus. I can't really follow why Damian believes that Leviathan could be Jason. The natural choice would be Talia. She has been Leviathan in the past (and she's leading Leviathan right now in Silencer) and she's Damian's mother. So him wanting to prove his mother's innocence would be understandable.

----------


## Zaresh

I think Damian's voice is, as far as I know, the voice he uses for teenagers overall. He uses that too, for some other characters, sometimes characters speaking in the same scene. This is why I said that I dislike the voices he writes: they tend to sound all the same; and that's confusing and breaks my immersion, because, as much as people say that the way he writes dialogue is more natural, I don't feel it (it's not the only writer that writes dialogue in a way that I feel artificial, but I like the others better. Take Aaron Sorkin, for example: no one speaks 24/7 like the characters in The West Wing, but I like how they're written nevertheless). Just my opinion: other people love it. It's a bit divisive, I guess.

There is too, I think, the issue about written language and speech being both ruled by different codes and conventions: their register is different. When you read a dialogue, you expect characters to speak in a certain way; same as when you watch fiction in movies and TVs. And the way they do and how you expect them to is unlike how you usually speak in your daily life. This is something I think many professional writers do instinctively, but it's not an easy thing to do, to be honest. Most of my friends who write have to watch out for this issue when they write dialogue (and they've pointed to me how I often have a problem of exposition when I write); but then, other people just write dialogue right and almost clean on the fly.

But in any case, yep, it's nitpicking. And Bendis is writing what, 4 books each month? (Action, Supes, YJ and that Batman for Walmart). That has to pay and show in his style somehow, because writing takes time (shrugging.gif). And yep, he has to also make clear to readers outside the batbooks, and casual readers, who Jason is; that's a good point too.

----------


## Aahz

> JJMK-JJMK


That reminds me that I really don't like the Red UtRH/OYL Robin Costume. That kind of looks like lung Red Underware, and wearing that as a costume should be left to Supergoof.

----------


## Aahz

Btw. I kind of hope that the Leviathan Guy is the Grant Morrison Incarnation of Jason from the dark Multiverse, and gets in the end his Ass kicked by the current incarnation.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine



----------


## Sergard

Found this on Reddit: DCeased #2 - Midtown Comics Exclusive by InHyuk Lee

----------


## Sergard

> Btw. I kind of hope that the Leviathan Guy is the Grant Morrison Incarnation of Jason from the dark Multiverse, and gets in the end his Ass kicked by the current incarnation.


I'd be very disappointed in Barbara if she can't distinguish real Jason from fake Morrison Jason.

----------


## Jackalope89

Zombie Jason? A bit on the nose, don't you think?

----------


## Sergard

> Zombie Jason? A bit on the nose, don't you think?


I wouldn't be surprised if DCeased will be similar to Injustice - a lot of deaths but the big "alpha" characters like Batman, Wonder Woman, Hal Jordan, etc. will mysteriously always survive while Robins, the other Green Lanterns and Co. are dying left and right.

----------


## kaimaciel

So is DCeased an Elseworlds story or is it in the main continuity?

Also, I can't help but shiver to the thought of Bendis writing Jason. God, I hope he doesn't destroy the character.

----------


## Aahz

> So is DCeased an Elseworlds story or is it in the main continuity?


Elseworld.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Interesting analysis about RHATO as whole

https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/co..._n52_red_hood/

----------


## Zaresh

> That reminds me that I really don't like the Red UtRH/OYL Robin Costume. That kind of looks like lung Red Underware, and wearing that as a costume should be left to Supergoof.


It's my favourite Robin Costume, even if it has black pants.




> Btw. I kind of hope that the Leviathan Guy is the Grant Morrison Incarnation of Jason from the dark Multiverse, and gets in the end his Ass kicked by the current incarnation.


That could be hilarious. I think everyone would enjoy this a lot.




> Found this on Reddit: DCeased #2 - Midtown Comics Exclusive by InHyuk Lee


Cool cover. DCeased is getting some pretty covers, damn.

----------


## Sergard

> Cool cover. DCeased is getting some pretty covers, damn.


I'm just noticing now that the "flames" from Jason's eyes form an Omega symbol. Nice detail.

----------


## Sergard

kibi




bluetost_T

----------


## Zaresh

> I'm just noticing now that the "flames" from Jason's eyes form an Omega symbol. Nice detail.


I envy your eyesight. I cannot see it XD.

----------


## Sergard

> I envy your eyesight. I cannot see it XD.


Jason Todd omega.jpg

Does this help?  :Big Grin:

----------


## Zaresh

> Jason Todd omega.jpg
> 
> Does this help?


Hah! XD

Yes, yes, it helps indeed. Thank you :3.

----------


## Sergard

These exclusive covers are expensive. There are three different covers of the DCeased #2 variant above. And they basically all look the same with tiny differences.

Midtown Exclusive Cover A Inhyuk Lee Connecting Variant Cover - 10 $




Midtown Exclusive Cover B Inhyuk Lee Connecting Omega Variant Cover - 15 $




Midtown Exclusive Cover C Inhyuk Lee Connecting Virgin Cover - 20 $




source

----------


## sifighter

> I wouldn't be surprised if DCeased will be similar to Injustice - a lot of deaths but the big "alpha" characters like Batman, Wonder Woman, Hal Jordan, etc. will mysteriously always survive while Robins, the other Green Lanterns and Co. are dying left and right.


Some spoilers for the first issue, dont look if you dont wanna know.
*spoilers:*
Actually they pretty much killed off Batman, Tim, and Dick at the end of the first issue. Damian survived because he was hanging with Jon at his house when it all went down and Superman prevented them from turning. Jason was not in the issue so no idea if hes ok.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Connecting, eh?

Man, I hope DC wakes up and releases these as a poster like Marvel does.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Found this on Reddit: DCeased #2 - Midtown Comics Exclusive by InHyuk Lee


"Yes. Yes, I did it. I hate him... so... much... flames. Flames. ..On the side of my head... heaving... breathing...  heaving breath..."

----------


## redmax99

[QUOTE=Sergard;4333440]Do you have an example for that? The last and only time I've seen more than one Red Hood was in a flashback during the old RHatO run which showed the Red Hood gang, and even there I'm not sure if the members were called Red Hoods or not.

they were all call red hood 1 etc.but i know in nightwing 43 or 44 when dick was rescuing damian he fought some redhooded mask guys and he implied that they were copying jason. then i went back even further than realize i was thinking of utrh movie

----------


## Sergard

> Some spoilers for the first issue, dont look if you dont wanna know.
> *spoilers:*
> Actually they pretty much killed off Batman, Tim, and Dick at the end of the first issue. Damian survived because he was hanging with Jon at his house when it all went down and Superman prevented them from turning. Jason was not in the issue so no idea if hes ok.
> *end of spoilers*


Spoiler me all you want. DCeased is a title for which I want to be spoilered. There is no appeal to me to read a series if all my favs are dead from the start.

But I have to admit:
*spoilers:*
Dick AND Tim being zombified was a surprise. Tom Taylor already killed them in Injustice so I thought they'd be save in DCeased. At least one of them. But maybe someone finds a cure and Dick and Tim will turn back to normal later?
*end of spoilers*

----------


## sifighter

> Spoiler me all you want. DCeased is a title for which I want to be spoilered. There is no appeal to me to read a series if all my favs are dead from the start.
> 
> But I have to admit:
> *spoilers:*
> Dick AND Tim being zombified was a surprise. Tom Taylor already killed them in Injustice so I thought they'd be save in DCeased. At least one of them. But maybe someone finds a cure and Dick and Tim will turn back to normal later?
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
 maybe Taylor just really likes Damian(kidding)

I’m not sure about a cure though, I mean the virus is effectively a mutated version of the anti-life equation that has via the internet and infects anyone who looks at a screen...so it might be a bit hard.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Sergard

> Connecting, eh?
> 
> Man, I hope DC wakes up and releases these as a poster like Marvel does.


There are a few covers that I'd totally buy as a poster, like probably every RHatO variant cover by Yasmine Putri.




> *spoilers:*
>  maybe Taylor just really likes Damian(kidding)
> 
> Im not sure about a cure though, I mean the virus is effectively a mutated version of the anti-life equation that has via the internet and infects anyone who looks at a screen...so it might be a bit hard.
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
If that's how the virus works, then the whole batfam is pretty much f*cked. The idea actually reminds me a little bit of the novel series "The Ring" (also adapted into movies). Although DCeased is way more effective. 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## sifighter

> There are a few covers that I'd totally buy as a poster, like probably every RHatO variant cover by Yasmine Putri.
> 
> 
> 
> *spoilers:*
> If that's how the virus works, then the whole batfam is pretty much f*cked. The idea actually reminds me a little bit of the novel series "The Ring" (also adapted into movies). Although DCeased is way more effective. 
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
 Honestly, Batman was ok at first, he actually had his cave computer safely set up cut off from outside internet and with firewalls up but unlike the batcave he didn't cut the connection to the rest of the wayne mansion until it was to late.Like I said the reason Damian is still ok by the end of the first issue is that he was at Jon's house and that Superman moved fast enough to destroy any screen that could infect them. If not for that he'd probably be biting into Bruce as well. 

Funny when you think that Taylor has Damian siding with superman again. 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

More about Jason's death with O'Neil

https://twitter.com/DCComics/status/1123708682364162049

----------


## RedBird

> Found this on Reddit: DCeased #2 - Midtown Comics Exclusive by InHyuk Lee


Sweet! 
Thats the second DCeased cover with Jason and Joker now. Its two different artists but still, I wonder if the juxtaposition was planned, with Joker coming off as a threat to Robin Jason in the first and then Red Hood returning to beat the Joker in the second.  :Big Grin:

----------


## Jackalope89

> Sweet! 
> Thats the second DCeased cover with Jason and Joker now. Its two different artists but still, I wonder if the juxtaposition was planned, with Joker coming off as a threat to Robin Jason in the first and then Red Hood returning to beat the Joker in the second.


Joker wanted to do Monster Mash, while Jason wanted to do Thriller. Looks like Jason won.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Also Woods said last last pages of #36 is gonna change everything. I wonder how that syncs up with Bendis's story.


When did he say that?

----------


## G-Potion

> When did he say that?


Here it is.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Thanks!

Hmmm. Considering the timing, he's probably talking about the "sidekicks" mentioned in the solicits.

----------


## RedBird

> More about Jason's death with O'Neil
> 
> https://twitter.com/DCComics/status/1123708682364162049


I always feel so mixed whenever I come across more interviews like this.

I know I know, certain circumstances that have brought Jason from then to now are pretty essential

But still, its always kinda sad to hear that Jason was written out so harshly for _absolutely nothing_  since the end goal of getting rid of Robin never lasted.

I don't think I would ever reverse his death (at least not in main continuity) But I still wonder what might have happened if he could have stuck around.


Hearing O'Neil recall the shocked and appalled responses after the kids death is surprising though. Not the responses themselves, but the fact that I don't usually hear DC describe and reiterate the public's distaste for the DITF comics subject matter/gimmick.

----------


## Sergard

Does anybody know if these shop exclusive variant covers are normally collected later on in the trade paperback?
The DCeased #2 cover above does look really nice but shipping costs are pretty much a deal breaker.

----------


## Sergard

> *spoilers:*
>  Honestly, Batman was ok at first, he actually had his cave computer safely set up cut off from outside internet and with firewalls up but unlike the batcave he didn't cut the connection to the rest of the wayne mansion until it was to late.Like I said the reason Damian is still ok by the end of the first issue is that he was at Jon's house and that Superman moved fast enough to destroy any screen that could infect them. If not for that he'd probably be biting into Bruce as well. 
> 
> Funny when you think that Taylor has Damian siding with superman again. 
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
If I understand that correctly, there's a good chance that Bruce does not turn into a zombie because the virus isn't transmitted by bites.

That's funny indeed, I didn't think of this that way. Let's hope that Jon and Lois don't die. Otherwise there'll probably be a DCeased Superman who matches Injustice Superman.
It will be interesting to see how characters are going to fight for their lifes when they can't use a lot of technology.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Dzetoun

> A lot of people guessed that the red masked guy in Bendis' Leviathan event was Jason but that felt way too obvious because of the design, but it seems he is or Bendis will be playing around with the idea at least.


It certainly seems too obvious, doesn't it? Especially with Damian literally pointing it out and almost waving a flag saying "This is obvious!" while a marching band follows him through the panels.

----------


## sifighter

> *spoilers:*
> If I understand that correctly, there's a good chance that Bruce does not turn into a zombie because the virus isn't transmitted by bites.
> 
> That's funny indeed, I didn't think of this that way. Let's hope that Jon and Lois don't die. Otherwise there'll probably be a DCeased Superman who matches Injustice Superman.
> It will be interesting to see how characters are going to fight for their lifes when they can't use a lot of technology.
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
 Actually before Batman gets attacked he actually mentions that there is a blood through blood transfer indicating that not only does screens turn you but also so does bites or at least blood.

Also not sure how the tech thing will actually work out because even though he is technically the source of it, the comic in it’s captions seems to indicate that Cyborg is still very much alive and not among the undead. 
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Aahz

https://www.deviantart.com/mrrizeag/gallery/

----------


## Sergard

sferiolla






Jaytim_rr

----------


## G-Potion

> Jaytim_rr


Aww I'd love to have one like this.

----------


## Sergard

Tom Taylor:

"_#DCeased #1 is out today! Really excited to show you the iconic @MidtownComics exclusive #DCeased cover for issue 2 by InHyuk Lee. And share that... it joins with issue #1! Reminder, I'll be signing at @MidtownComics on Wednesday May 15 - all the way from Australia._"

----------


## redmax99

> Tom Taylor:
> 
> "_#DCeased #1 is out today! Really excited to show you the iconic @MidtownComics exclusive #DCeased cover for issue 2 by InHyuk Lee. And share that... it joins with issue #1! Reminder, I'll be signing at @MidtownComics on Wednesday May 15 - all the way from Australia._"


so this is going to be a poster

----------


## Sergard

> so this is going to be a poster


So far a poster has not been announced. These are the exclusive and connecting variant covers of DCeased #1 and #2 done by InHyuk Lee for Midtown Comics next to each other.
But I do hope that InHyuk Lee will do similar covers for the remaining issues of DCeased and that there'll be some posters too later on.

----------


## Sergard

zumaon



(Tim Drake and Jason Todd)



CatKir

----------


## Zaresh

> zumaon
> 
> 
> 
> (Tim Drake and Jason Todd)
> 
> 
> 
> CatKir


Oh, I think I've just fallen in love with the second one. I remember watching those cartoons when I was a kid. Lovely.

----------


## Sergard

Since RH:O #34 comes out on Wednesday, any guesses what the story will be about?




> Red Hood and the Outlaws (2016-) #34
> Jason Todd heads to France to expand the Iceberg Lounges sphere of influence-or are his motives more ambitious? Meanwhile, the Penguin gains an unexpected ally in his bid to topple the Red Hood, but the DCUs greatest Outlaw is busy battling a threat from his past who feels like his recent aspirations might threaten more than just Gotham City. Brace yourselves for the shocking return of Essence!

----------


## Zaresh

> Since RH:O #34 comes out on Wednesday, any guesses what the story will be about?


No idea, to be honest.

----------


## Arsenal

Jason tells his gang at the Casino that he's leaving to make a business deal when he's really on his way to find out why/how Penguin has a an Al Caste hit squad. 

Penguin's unexpected ally will be either Bunker (whose unknowingly been compromised), Wingman or Lex/an agent of Lex.

----------


## Rac7d*

So now that Jason Todd is a regular I assume this will be the season where he gets offed
when he comes back to be redhood whos gonna play him ? Curran is to small

----------


## Sergard

I wonder why Jason goes to France. The last time that he went there was in Red Hood/Arsenal. I hope Lobdell does not want to bring Hero Manifesto back. And yes, I had to look the name up.
Red Hood/Arsenal was a little too goofy for my taste, so I don't remember a lot of details.

----------


## Aahz

https://dopingues.tumblr.com/post/18...6345/baby-mode

----------


## Sergard

moon115115




uth69





And here's something from 2017 that I just found.

NEHO

----------


## G-Potion

Great find!  :Smile:

----------


## Sergard

Reading old RHatO issues and knowing that the Leviathan event hangs over Jason's head like the sword of Damocles, some scenes really hurt my heart.






(RHatO #20; book title: "Become what you are".)

RHATO 2016 #21 Jason and Alfred.jpg

(RHatO #21)

----------


## Aahz

Second season of the Red Hood Fan Series has started:

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Reading old RHatO issues and knowing that the Leviathan event hangs over Jason's head like the sword of Damocles, some scenes really hurt my heart.


Well, I'm guessing that writers know way, way in advance possible developments. So I wouldn't be surprised if Lobdell knew of Leviathan back then.

----------


## Arsenal

At least right now it’s only “help me prove that Hood’s not leviathan” instead of something like “It must be Hood/Hood’s the prime suspect”. That’s progress! Not much, but it’s something.

----------


## Zaresh

> At least right now its only help me prove that Hoods not leviathan instead of something like It must be Hood/Hoods the prime suspect. Thats progress! Not much, but its something.


It still may be him. My advise is to not get our hopes high, because it feels like a setting for him to be defended by Damian and other members of the clan, only to be him behind Leviathan in the end. Now, it may be that Leviathan is not a really bad guy in the end, but... *shrugs".

----------


## oasis1313

I don't think Jason is Leviathan.  It's probably Talia again or something.

----------


## Sergard

> Well, I'm guessing that writers know way, way in advance possible developments. So I wouldn't be surprised if Lobdell knew of Leviathan back then.


That reminds me of this scene from RHatO #16.

RHatO 2016 #16 Amanda Waller Brainiac.jpg

Less than a year later, Amanda Waller literally hacked Brainiac in Justice League: No Justice.

----------


## Sergard

> I don't think Jason is Leviathan.  It's probably Talia again or something.


Talia should be the obvious guess (not Jason; thank you, Damian)
But it doesn't add up with the story in "DC's Year of the Villain Special (2019-) #1". Leviathan calls Batgirl "Barbara". I don't think that's something Talia would do.
On the other hand, Jason wouldn't wear a strange mask and a cape. He even stated in the TT Annual that he doesn't like capes. But seeing how Damian behaves in the Special compared to his falling-out with Jason in TT, it doesn't look like Bendis actually read the annual.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Talia should be the obvious guess (not Jason; thank you, Damian)
> But it doesn't add up with the story in "DC's Year of the Villain Special (2019-) #1". Leviathan calls Batgirl "Barbara". I don't think that's something Talia would do.
> On the other hand, Jason wouldn't wear a strange mask and a cape. He even stated in the TT Annual that he doesn't like capes. But seeing how Damian behaves in the Special compared to his falling-out with Jason in TT, it doesn't look like Bendis actually read the annual.


Well, Bendis did have Clark send Lois and Jon out into space with Jor-El. Considering the last time they saw him, Jor had been the brains behind numerous terrorist actions and vanished. But no questions were asked about it. And, apparently, barely into the trip, Bendis had Lois leave her 10-11 year old alone with Jor and head back home, without telling Clark. Considering just prior to Bendis coming on, Lois was a mama bear for both her Kryptonians.

I doubt Bendis read more than a summary of the characters before writing the annual. Considering what he's done to the Supers already.

----------


## Aahz

> Talia should be the obvious guess (not Jason; thank you, Damian)
> But it doesn't add up with the story in "DC's Year of the Villain Special (2019-) #1". Leviathan calls Batgirl "Barbara". I don't think that's something Talia would do.
> On the other hand, Jason wouldn't wear a strange mask and a cape. He even stated in the TT Annual that he doesn't like capes. But seeing how Damian behaves in the Special compared to his falling-out with Jason in TT, it doesn't look like Bendis actually read the annual.


Leviathan obviously knows her backstory, and therefore her name.

But I don't think that that has to mean much. Huntress knew for example also Barbaras Identity when they met in the rebirth Issue of Batgirl and the Birds of Prey, due to her work for Spyral. So the Leviathan could either got this information somehow from Spyral or found it out the same way Spyral discovered it.

----------


## Aahz

https://ninalinovna.tumblr.com/tagged/myart

----------


## Sergard

an_atagasu




zumaon

----------


## oasis1313

> https://ninalinovna.tumblr.com/tagged/myart


Is this Rose Wilson with Jason?

----------


## Jackalope89

> Is this Rose Wilson with Jason?


White/silver hair, eye patch...

It's either Rose, and Danaerys Targaryean decided to try out an eye patch after being transported to the DC universe.

----------


## kaimaciel

Guys, have you seen this? https://www.comicsbeat.com/lego-dc-b...tters-trailer/

"After Batman (voiced by Troy Baker) sells his company, Wayne Enterprises, to focus on vigilantism, he realizes his mistake when Two-Face (Christian Lanz) takes control and plans to tear Gotham apart with the help of Brother Eye (Cam Clarke), a murderous AI not too dissimilar to HAL 9000.

With some help from Robin (Scott Menville) and Batgirl (Alyson Stoner), the Caped Crusader will break into the company building, shut down Brother Eye, and convince Harvey Dent that Batman and Bruce Wayne are two separate individuals. The story also involves these heroes receiving mysterious invitations and having their bonds tested when the Red Hood (Jason Spisak) shows up, determined to destroy both them and Gotham.

The rest of the voice cast is comprised of: Steve Blum (Scarecrow), Zach Callison (Billy Batson), Will Friedle (Nightwing), Ralph Garman (Wizard), Jake Green, (Fred), Josh Keaton (Board Member) Tom Kenny (Gordon & Penguin), Nolan North (Killer Croc), Andre Sogliuzza (Riddler), Tara Strong (Batwoman), and Fred Tatasciore (Solomon Grundy)."

----------


## Zaresh

> Guys, have you seen this? https://www.comicsbeat.com/lego-dc-b...tters-trailer/
> 
> "After Batman (voiced by Troy Baker) sells his company, Wayne Enterprises, to focus on vigilantism, he realizes his mistake when Two-Face (Christian Lanz) takes control and plans to tear Gotham apart with the help of Brother Eye (Cam Clarke), a murderous AI not too dissimilar to HAL 9000.
> 
> With some help from Robin (Scott Menville) and Batgirl (Alyson Stoner), the Caped Crusader will break into the company building, shut down Brother Eye, and convince Harvey Dent that Batman and Bruce Wayne are two separate individuals. The story also involves these heroes receiving mysterious invitations and having their bonds tested when the Red Hood (Jason Spisak) shows up, determined to destroy both them and Gotham.
> 
> The rest of the voice cast is comprised of: Steve Blum (Scarecrow), Zach Callison (Billy Batson), Will Friedle (Nightwing), Ralph Garman (Wizard), Jake Green, (Fred), Josh Keaton (Board Member) Tom Kenny (Gordon & Penguin), Nolan North (Killer Croc), Andre Sogliuzza (Riddler), Tara Strong (Batwoman), and Fred Tatasciore (Solomon Grundy)."


Yep. I'm looking forward it. These Lego movies usually are easy going, fun cartoons, same as the games.

----------


## Aahz

What kind of wired is that Jason Spisak is also voicing Joker in the Hush movie.

----------


## Zaresh

> What kind of wired is that Jason Spisak is also voicing Joker in the Hush movie.


I suspect they're not being too consistent with voices between products.

----------


## adrikito

> I know right? Sounds way more like Tim.
> 
> I've been relatively enjoying YJ but this page makes me think that Bendis doesn't necessarily have a unique voice for Tim more so than he thinks that this is just the way ROBINTM talks.
> 
> 
> Also that page is almost beautifully stupid in that 'cliffhanger lead up sentence', the more I come across it and read it, the goofier it gets.
> 
> The Red Hood.......Your Old Partner.......Jason Todd.
> 
> Like Thank God Bendis clarified that. Poor Bruce is a bit of a dunce. I'm sure when Damian said Red Hood, Bruce was thinking of someone else......Like maybe Joker....so its a good thing Damian clarified and said 'your old partner'........But you know just in case Bruce was still thinking it may be another ex partner/robin of his, who is calling themselves the Red Hood, Damian kindly went on further and clarified that he was referring to Jason Todd. Whew, glad we cleared that up. XD


I saw him like a different person too..

That person who was talking with Barbara in Year of Villain was wearing a similar mask to red hood.. But despite he knew her identity I doubt that is him..

----------


## Zaresh

And it seems we're getting this too:

*Batman: Death In The Family Animated Short Coming As Part of DC Showcase*
https://community.cbr.com/showthread...of-DC-Showcase

That I'm guessing will have Jason as Robin. Weird choice to adapt in a short, until you realize that it will probably be released around the time of the end of the second season of Titans, or slightly later.

So two stories for animated media in which Jason will appear.

----------


## G-Potion

I'll take it as a sign of DC wanting to promote him. I'm not really eager to watch this one though.

----------


## Sergard

FADE

----------


## Sergard

The "Batman: Under the Hood" story arc started in November 2004 (and ended in February 2006), so technically Jason as Red Hood has his 15th anniversary this year.
So it's nice to see that coincidentally there is a handful of Jason-relevant stuff coming out in the near future.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Non locked version of the Family Matters trailer

----------


## Zaresh

> Non locked version of the Family Matters trailer


Wait. So is Red Hood an ally or an enemy? Because he sure is with them in the meeting, but the summary points other way, and he doesn't seem to be with them in most of the scenes (that I guess ar from early in the movie). Aaaand... That Robin is shorter than the other lego characters, but then not the fakeBatman: so maybe fakeBatman is RedHood-formerRobin? Or Nightwing. Heeh, this is why I like the lego products: they do stuff for fun, creating a mishmash out of the original concepts.

----------


## Sergard

JarrulusX

----------


## G-Potion

> Wait. So is Red Hood an ally or an enemy? Because he sure is with them in the meeting, but the summary points other way, and he doesn't seem to be with them in most of the scenes (that I guess ar from early in the movie).


Maybe he trolls before he helps out.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Zaresh

> Maybe he trolls before he helps out.


I just hope there is a rocket launcher involved at some point. And a mask under a helmet for dramatic effect. Just following the most silly spirit that Jason can offer to these silly fun movies.

----------


## HsssH

I was thinking for a while to get into Jason, but never really made the jump. What would people here consider a good entry point? Or a story that sets him up and explains what he is about? Doesn't have to be new, anything goes, really.

----------


## Sergard

> I was thinking for a while to get into Jason, but never really made the jump. What would people here consider a good entry point? Or a story that sets him up and explains what he is about? Doesn't have to be new, anything goes, really.


Batman: Under the Red Hood is a good starting point. You can read the comic or watch the movie. There are differences in the details but both grab the basics about Jason's character. After that, you can jump right into Red Hood and the Outlaws Rebirth.

----------


## Zaresh

> I was thinking for a while to get into Jason, but never really made the jump. What would people here consider a good entry point? Or a story that sets him up and explains what he is about? Doesn't have to be new, anything goes, really.


We have posted a very brief read list for jumping-point Jason Todd in the first post of this thread. If I recall correctly, it's Batman: Under the Hood plus the RHATO vol. 2 (Rebirth) up to now. For something more thorough, you can read RHATO vol. 1 (new 52), Red Hood / Arsenal (DCYu, if I'm not wrong. Poeple like it even less than his N52), Countdown to Final Crisis (people often hate that book, but his multiversal trip was actually fun) or his run as Robin pre and post crisis that we are reading currently in a thread, also linked in the first post of this thread. A Death in the Family is an important story for him, obviously, even if it's retold in other places and it hasn't aged well. Also, Batman: The Cult is a pretty cool old book that has Jason being very badass, and has some awesome art. There is more stuff (if I recall correctly, he shows up in Winick's Outsiders, and his Green Arrow. Also in Batman and Robin Eternal, etc.), books in which he appears for a brief role or he is supporting cast.

But Under the Hood + Rebirth is what I would go for a starting point too, honestly, even if it skips a lot.
And yeah, I'm totally skipping Jason under Morrison tenure over the batfam, because either he was barely him (many fans often joke about Redhead Jason being an imposter) or his role was really small.

----------


## Aahz

If you want to get quick into the current series, without reading it from the beginning issue #26 is probably the best jumping on point.

----------


## Sergard

> We have posted a very brief read list for jumping-point Jason Todd in the first post of this thread.


Sorry, I haven't included the reading list in the first post yet.

----------


## Zaresh

> Sorry, I haven't included the reading list in the first post yet.


Oh, you haven't? I remember reading some short text in the first post a while back. I guess I mixed things (not the first time I would have).

----------


## Sergard

zumaon






zumaon

----------


## Sergard

> Oh, you haven't? I remember reading some short text in the first post a while back. I guess I mixed things (not the first time I would have).


The reading recommendations were "in progress" for months. I didn't know how to sort suggestions in a way that doesn't look too overwhelming for new fans or interested people.

So I recently changed the recommendations to a quick 2-step introduction.

----------


## Sergard

Pete Woods _Workin’, workin’._

----------


## Sergard

Derek Laufman





donovan_nx





B.O.P

----------


## Zaresh

> Pete Woods _Workin’, workin’._


Awesome. I guess we will see Bunker in action soon.

----------


## Aahz



----------


## Sergard

an_atagasu




B.O.P

----------


## Sergard

Jason Todd Easter Egg in Batman and the Outsiders #1, thanks to Dexter Soy.  :Big Grin: 

Batman and the Outsiders #1 jason todd easter egg by dexter soy.jpg

----------


## G-Potion

> an_atagasu


Artemis looks so good in this. Really nice Outlaws moment.

----------


## G-Potion

> Jason Todd Easter Egg in Batman and the Outsiders #1, thanks to Dexter Soy. 
> 
> Batman and the Outsiders #1 jason todd easter egg by dexter soy.jpg


Blessed! XD

----------


## adrikito

> an_atagasu


I miss them.. The annual is the next issue?




> Pete Woods _Workin’, workin’._


Bunker? Is something that will happen in a future issue?

----------


## Arsenal

Based on the cover of RH:O #36 (which means absolutely nothing) Bunker & Hood are supposed to throw down but the solicits (which also don’t mean much) make it seem they’ll both be to busy fighting off Penguin’s counter attack for anything like that to happen.

----------


## Sergard

> I miss them.. The annual is the next issue?


There are two more issues before the annual.

RH:O #35 - June 12, 2019
RH:O #36 - July 10, 2019
RH:O Annual #3 - July 31, 2019

But hopefully the solicitation for RH:O #37 will give a hint if Artemis and Bizarro return or not.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

https://www.previewsworld.com/Articl...Selling-Comics

Back to the top 100.

----------


## Arsenal

Wow, Hood beat Nightwing in sales this month

----------


## Zaresh

> Jason Todd Easter Egg in Batman and the Outsiders #1, thanks to Dexter Soy. 
> 
> Attachment 82242


Ha ha. Nice.




> Artemis looks so good in this. Really nice Outlaws moment.


I love the colours and texture in that one, too. And the style overall. It's a really good piece.




> Wow, Hood beat Nightwing in sales this month


Yeah. It's weird. I want to believe that we went back to the 20-22k figures, instead of NW dropping under 20k.

----------


## Sergard

What happened to Hawkman? Normally that title is right behind Red Hood.

Wouldn't it be strange if the second issue of a new arc sells better than the first one? At least it sounds strange to me.

----------


## G-Potion

> Wow, Hood beat Nightwing in sales this month


Mind blown.

----------


## Aahz

> Yeah. It's weird. I want to believe that we went back to the 20-22k figures, instead of NW dropping under 20k.


It looks actually more like the Red Hood sales went up, because it is now also above some other books that sold more than 20K issues last month like X23, Spider Gwen , Justice League Odyssey, Black Panther and Punisher.
Maybe it was the Variant Cover?

----------


## Zaresh

> It looks actually more like the Red Hood sales went up, because it is now also above some other books that sold more than 20K issues last month like X23, Spider Gwen , Justice League Odyssey, Black Panther and Punisher.
> Maybe it was the Variant Cover?


I don't know. The variant cover wasn't that good, imho (but that's just my opinion). It was the one with the "skullman" Red Hood, which wasn't much commented on the net as far as I saw (not as much as the ones by Yasmine Putri). The variant was made by Lucio Parrillo, who I have no idea if it's an artist with a big fanbase or not. But still, gaining what? 4k new sales maybe? It has to be a bit of both at least, I think (variant and new readers catching up).

----------


## Arsenal

Haven’t all of the recent RH:O books had a variant cover?

----------


## Aahz

> I don't know. The variant cover wasn't that good, imho (but that's just my opinion). It was the one with the "skullman" Red Hood, which wasn't much commented on the net as far as I saw (not as much as the ones by Yasmine Putri). The variant was made by Lucio Parrillo, who I have no idea if it's an artist with a big fan base or not. But still, gaining what? 4k new sales maybe? It has to be a bit of both at least, I think (variant and new readers catching up).


No idea, don't really care for variant covers.
Bur it seems still more likely to me that Red Hoog gained that much, than that all the other books dropped drastically, but we will probably see the actual numbers soon.

----------


## Sergard

inkydandy

----------


## Jackalope89

> inkydandy


I call foul on this!

Damian is just too tall.

----------


## Arsenal

> I call foul on this!
> 
> Damian is just too tall.


Nah, he’s just standing on a box off camera.

----------


## Aahz

> Nah, hes just standing on a box off camera.


If you go by the official heights Damian and Tim wouldn't be in the picture otherwise, and you could see Dick only from the eyebrows upwards.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

80 Red Hood Outlaw	33	$3.99	04/10/19	DC	24,708

https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...9/2019-04.html

6k bump

----------


## Zaresh

> 80 Red Hood Outlaw	33	$3.99	04/10/19	DC	24,708
> 
> https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...9/2019-04.html
> 
> 6k bump


Wow, that's a lot.

----------


## Sergard

I updated the sales statistics.

The last time RH did so good (not counting the foil cover issue) was at the start of the last arc.

----------


## Sergard

RedRidingHood






Travisty1017

----------


## G-Potion

> 80 Red Hood Outlaw	33	$3.99	04/10/19	DC	24,708
> 
> https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...9/2019-04.html
> 
> 6k bump


Wow. How did it do that.

----------


## Zaresh

> RedRidingHood


Awww. This one is really cute.




> Travisty1017


And this other one is cool.

Also, because this latter artist was commenting on loose pencils and trying different things: getting loose while sketching is the right thing to do: gesturing is probably as much if not more important than having clean lines for the final drawing, imho.

Edit:




> Wow. How did it do that.


New interesting-so-far arc + New team for Jason to work with + Penguin + Gotham + variant cover + a really cool regular cover, maybe? I honestly have no idea. 6k is a lot.

Or maybe it was the vest suit. Those are cool, people know.

----------


## Konja7

> Wow. How did it do that.


Something should have changed for that issue. Maybe the variant cover? 

I can't be sure, but some variant covers can really increase the sales. The variant cover for Red Hood Outlaw #33 is pretty good.

----------


## Zaresh

> Something should have changed for that issue. Maybe the variant cover? 
> 
> I can't be sure, but some variant covers can really increase the sales. The variant cover for Red Hood Outlaw #33 is pretty good.


Depends on your taste. Personally, I think it's ugly and doesn't suit the story in that issue at all. Or the visual style inside. It's pretty "urban horror" average, honestly (with all my respects to the artist, because no way I could do something like that myself).

In any case, it couldn't be the variant cover alone. It's 6k, and it's not even a well known artist, or a collectionable event. 4k, I could see it, somehow. But 6k... That's a lot.

----------


## Konja7

> Depends on your taste. Personally, I think it's ugly and doesn't suit the story in that issue at all. Or the visual style inside. It's pretty "urban horror" average, honestly (with all my respects to the artist, because no way I could do something like that myself).
> 
> In any case, it couldn't be the variant cover alone. It's 6k, and it's not even a well known artist, or a collectionable event. 4k, I could see it, somehow. But 6k... That's a lot.


I don't think the cover suits the story either. However, I think this is the kind of variant cover that can increase the sales for that issue. 

A well known artist can increase a lot more than 6K. In March, Supergirl with Artgerm variant cover sold 32K. In April, Supergirl without Artgerm variant cover sold 19K.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Sure but Lucio Parrillo doesn't seem to be anywhere close to Artgerm's league and I'd wager Putri's more well known and yet she has never driven sales up like this.

----------


## Sergard

Maybe a boost because of the Year of the Villain event? Or the annual cover? Some old fans could have come back because they hope Artemis and Bizarro will return soon.
Or some New52 fans returned since the All-Caste plays a major role again.

----------


## Zaresh

> Maybe a boost because of the Year of the Villain event? Or the annual cover? Some old fans could have come back because they hope Artemis and Bizarro will return soon.
> Or some New52 fans returned since the All-Caste plays a major role again.


A bit of it all, I guess.

----------


## Sergard

0yongyong0

----------


## Zaresh

> 0yongyong0


Ha ha. These fanarts are lovely and fun. I would've given someone a Jigglypuff, but well, that's me loving the absurdity of that Pokémon. I guess Detective Pokémon has* hit strong.

----------


## Sergard

> Ha ha. These fanarts are lovely and fun. I would've given someone a Jigglypuff, but well, that's me loving the absurdity of that Pokémon. I guess Detective Pokémon had hit strong.


Pete Woods has changed his twitter name to Detective Pete-kachu.

----------


## Zaresh

> Pete Woods has changed his twitter name to Detective Pete-kachu.


Phhh.. Ph... A ha ha ha.

----------


## Sergard

Woods has also done a redesign of Mordru for Justice League Dark.
It looks good in my opinion. But if Woods wanted to draw a black-haired man with a white streak in his hair, he could have drawn Jason, just saying.

And there's also this suspicious looking post on twitter: "_Something potentially big in the works. Could use some good luck wishes if youve got any to spare._"

That doesn't seem to be related to RH:O. So maybe a own private project? But does that mean that Woods wants to leave RH:O?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I'm not a big fan of his work so I would be happy if we were to get a new artist on the book. That said, he mentioned in an earlier tweet he would be doing coloring work for DC.

----------


## RedBird

> I'm not a big fan of his work so I would be happy if we were to get a new artist on the book. That said, he mentioned in an earlier tweet he would be doing coloring work for DC.


Yeah I agree, Woods work is Solid but I cant say I'm a fan of his style overall. It's fine when Jason is wearing his mortal RedHood Kombat gear, so for the previous arc it was okay, but for an arc that is spent out of costume and relying on a central idea of keeping up stylish appearences, his gritty and blocky style just does not work for me at all.

As I said though, he is still a solid artist. I'm more afraid of someone like mooneyham taking over. Good god, I was never a huge fan of his work before but his art in nightwing is so unappealing and messy its ridiculous. The juxtaposition between his issues and Travis Moores in that title is a site to behold.

Speaking of which, I think Travis Moore would have been great for this rhato arc, at least as a guest artist.

----------


## Arsenal

I don’t mind his style, I’ve enjoyed books with far less of an appealing stye than his.

Am kinda curious to see how he handles Biz & Artemis though.

----------


## Korath

By squirrel

----------


## RedBird

> I dont mind his style, *Ive enjoyed books with far less of an appealing stye than his.
> *




Do tell  :Big Grin: 

We talking like a Chris Burnham kind of 'unappealing' whether its a matter of if you like the style or not. Kinda take it or leave it.
Or we talking a Rob Liefeld kind of 'unappealing' where sooner or later you realize the artist may be lacking some decent art studies.

----------


## RedBird

> By squirrel


That's a pretty sweet cosplay, kinda makes me wish Jason went full mob boss for this arc. Let loose, have fun  :Big Grin:

----------


## Sergard

Yanagi




Colin

----------


## RedBird

I've seen a few spoilers on tumblr. In case anyone's curious here is the one panel of Jason in this weeks 'Batman'.

For some context, Babs is calling and gathering each member of the family for a meeting cause the bat signal is red or something or rather, and that's a bad sign (i dont know)

----------


## Sergard

> I've seen a few spoilers on tumblr. In case anyone's curious here is the one panel of Jason in this weeks 'Batman'.
> 
> For some context, Babs is calling and gathering each member of the family for a meeting cause the bat signal is red or something or rather, and that's a bad sign (i dont know)


Can Tom King please stop using Jason?

----------


## Sergard

So that's what Rocafort has been working on.



Source

----------


## Korath

But what the hell are those things ?

----------


## Kalethas31

> So that's what Rocafort has been working on.
> 
> 
> 
> Source


look so awesome!!!

----------


## Darkcrusade25

> Can Tom King please stop using Jason?


Jason made the right decision tbh

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> But what the hell are those things ?


The sidekicks mentioned in 36 solicit.

----------


## Arsenal

> Can Tom King please stop using Jason?


I dunno, I feel like King got the whole Bat family dismissing Jasons legitimate gripes with Bruce because of the latest crisis of the week dynamic pretty well.

----------


## Zaresh

I took a glance to this week's issue of Batman after seeing that panel, and remembered why I stopped reading it again. It was so void, of everything. 

I don't know. I remember reading The Vision or The Omega Men, or the three issues I've got to read of Mister Miracle, and those books worked fine in issues (not as stand alone, but every issue gave me something). I didn't feel the same with this issue in Batman. That whole issue could be contained in 8 pages, and you could even take a lot of space for pretty art and some quipping and whatever. I guess writing a regular series that's released every two weeks has to be harder than writing for a monthly limited series. I know, reading an issue alone, in the middle of a story arc is an idiotic choice and clearly I'm missing a lot of what I should feel; but still, eh...  :Confused: 

Jason, well, at least he's harmless here. Just a panel, and it doesn't go against what we are having in RHATO. His voice? It's the usual for King when he writes Jason: it sounds off, sort of shallow and meant to sound fun. But I can say the same for Barbara's voice or most of the other short lines that most of the characters throw. But with how decompressed the issue was, and how little dialogue you can read there, it's to be expected, I guess. It's just a panel, a very quick reminder to Batman's readers of where Jason is and how he's standing in relation to Bruce now. No reason to go nitpicking.

I don't mean to sound too critical, or to trash King's work (no way I would to that: he can be a great writer) or anyone who is enjoying this work's taste. I liked some of his books too.

----------


## G-Potion

> So that's what Rocafort has been working on.
> 
> 
> 
> Source


I have no idea what is going on but this looks cool regardless. If those are the sidekicks, man do I love their designs and the potential for horror elements they can bring to the book.

----------


## RedBird

> So that's what Rocafort has been working on.
> 
> 
> 
> Source



Looks like the most wild remake of '3 men and a baby' I've ever seen  :Big Grin: 

Are these original characters or have they appeared in DC before? I can't really recognize any of them but the one with the big chompy lower jaw seems familiar, I feel like I've seen that design before.

----------


## Sergard

> Jason made the right decision tbh


I don't mind his decision. I'm okay with the part that Jason didn't want to join the others. I take offence that King made Jason talk to Barbara in this way.
Jason telling crowbar jokes or similar stuff to Dick or Tim would have been fine. But to Barbara, who was also tortured by the Joker and who has been treated with more respect by Jason in the past than some other batfam members - this rudeness doesn't sit right with me.

Tom King doesn't understand Jason's character and the dynamics he has with others. So I'll be glad if we see as little as possible of Jason in King's stories.

----------


## Sergard

> Looks like the most wild remake of '3 men and a baby' I've ever seen 
> 
> Are these original characters or have they appeared in DC before? I can't really recognize any of them but the one with the big chompy lower jaw seems familiar, I feel like I've seen that design before.


At first glance, because I didn't immediately notice the huge jaw, I thought that's Sideways.

----------


## Arsenal

Any chance that the baby the blue one is holding is Liam Harper?

----------


## Jackalope89

> Any chance that the baby the blue one is holding is Liam Harper?


While that would be awesome, that would also raise SO many more questions.

----------


## Zaresh

The three characters (not the baby) look like some kind of zombie thing, to be honest. They're weird.

The one who is holding the kid looks like a zombie cyborg ninja. The one who is biting the logo looks like some kind of alien. And the one in white has some kind of symbol in their mask and seems to be casting some spell with their hands.

----------


## Sergard

And the fourth character in the front isn't weird?

----------


## Restingvoice

> Looks like the most wild remake of '3 men and a baby' I've ever seen 
> 
> Are these original characters or have they appeared in DC before? I can't really recognize any of them but the one with the big chompy lower jaw seems familiar, I feel like I've seen that design before.


Not the jaw... but the overall aesthetic reminds me of that cyborg woman Manchester Black has as a bodyguard when facing Tim's Teen Titans. Also drawn by Rocafort.

Oh and that jaw one reminds me of Duela Dent for some reason.

----------


## Zaresh

> And the fourth character in the front isn't weird?


I thought it was some kind of gargoyle XD. Literal gargoyle, like some decoration element. I didn't realize it was an actual character until now.

Welp, I'm blind.

----------


## Restingvoice

That cover is so chaotic I didn't even notice the masked one with white hood and cape.

Oh, and the character in front reminds me of the alien design from Species. Just a little bit more stone-like.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Any chance that the baby the blue one is holding is Liam Harper?


Gonna go out of a limb and say, less than zero.

----------


## Arsenal

> Gonna go out of a limb and say, less than zero.


I was giving it about a .0000001% personally but figured I’d throw it out there anyway.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Without the watermark

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> If you haven’t checked in with Jason Todd in a while, you’re missing out on some great fun. The former Boy Wonder has taken over the Iceberg Lounge and is forcing the Penguin to watch him take down his criminal empire piece by piece. And where is old Oswald? He’s locked in his own panic room and has no choice but to witness Jason Todd’s devious machinations!
> 
> By the way, longtime Todd fans will love Red Hood Outlaw #34. Remember Isabel Adrila, Jason’s flight attendant girlfriend from the New 52 Red Hood and the Outlaws series? Well, she’s back and it looks like she and Jason are picking things back up from where they left off. These types of relationships never last, but I think Jason deserves some happiness.


https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2019/0...new-team-rises

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

August solicits are out




> RED HOOD: OUTLAW #37 
> written by SCOTT LOBDELL
> art and cover by KENNETH ROCAFORT
> variant cover by PHILIP TAN
> Leave it to Red Hood to get Lex Luthor’s strangest offer of all: to train the next generation of super-villains! Hand-picked for their incredible talents, not to mention their potential to spread villainy and doom across the globe. As the only super-villain in the world to have trained under Batman himself, Red Hood is the ideal instructor. But has Jason Todd fallen so far that he’d take on the task of forging tomorrow’s Legion of Doom or Crime Syndicate—or is he trying to work from within to undermine Lex’s villainous machinations? Even if Red Hood’s heart is in the right place, he still has to butt heads with his powerful and dangerous new pupils. Grab some ammo and settle in for the beginning of the next generation of Outlaws!
> ON SALE 08.28.19
> $3.99 US | 32 PAGES
> FC | RATED T+
> This issue will ship with two covers.
> Please see the order form for details.



And we're still being dragged into Leviathan




> EVENT LEVIATHAN #3 
> written by BRIAN MICHAEL BENDIS
> art and cover by ALEX MALEEV
> variant cover by JAY ANACLETO
> From the award-winning team of writer Brian Michael Bendis and artist Alex Maleev, it’s DC’s biggest whodunit in years! The world’s greatest detectives—Batman, Green Arrow, Lois Lane, Plastic Man, the Question and Martian Manhunter—have gathered to solve the mystery behind the true identity of Leviathan’s leaders and the destruction of the world’s top intelligence agencies! Red Hood is their leading suspect—and he is on the loose! Plus, the Silencer takes her shot! This mystery will unleash a new evil on the DC Universe!
> ON SALE 08.14.19
> $3.99 US | 3 OF 6 | 32 PAGES
> FC | RATED T+
> This issue will ship with two covers.
> Please see the order form for details.

----------


## Arsenal

Doesn't sound like the Trinity's gonna be reunited just yet.

----------


## kaimaciel

I'm scared for Jason, not gonna lie.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Doesn't sound like the Trinity's gonna be reunited just yet.


There's a new Bizarro in Terrifics, so that would make more difficult the return of Artemis and our Bizarro.

----------


## Jackalope89

> There's a new Bizarro in Terrifics, so that would make more difficult the return of Artemis and our Bizarro.


That Biz can just fly right off to Bizarro-verse. I want Artemis and Biz back!

----------


## Sergard

Don't forget "BLACK MASK: YEAR OF THE VILLAIN #1"






> written by TOM TAYLOR
> art by CULLY HAMNER
> cover by MITCH GERADS
> Black Mask was one of Gotham City’s most ruthless crime lords. He had money, power and respect. But after months in the Teen Titans’ secret prison, Roman Sionis is finally free. Given a new purpose and new abilities thanks to Lex Luthor’s offer, he’s found a new racket. Corporate crime not only pays better, but it’s far less dangerous. At least until Batwoman discovers what he’s up to and plans to put an end to Black Mask’s latest power grab. Is Black Mask the same crime boss he’s always been, or has time and a new approach made him something far more unstoppable than he’s ever been?


I mention it because the solicitation completely ignores Black Mask's encounter with Red Hood in the first Rebirth arc - like Teen Titans did.
The plot hole gets bigger and bigger.

----------


## Arsenal

On the bright side, we'll have more Hood stuff than usual to read over these next few months so that's always nice. If we're lucky, it might even be good too. 



> There's a new Bizarro in Terrifics, so that would make more difficult the return of Artemis and our Bizarro.





> That Biz can just fly right off to Bizarro-verse. I want Artemis and Biz back!


Meh, that Biz imposter doesn't even have a dope ass beard like ours does smh

Since it seems like the Annual doesn't end with the team reuniting, I'm curious to see how it ends. Unless that is how it ends and the main book is still working towards that point.

----------


## Zaresh

I don't like where this is going. If solicits keep pointing to Jason in a villainous role, involved in this Leviathan plot, I'll probably stop buying the trades and will not buy the one that will cover this arc. I for sure am not going to buy anything Leviathan: I have zero interest in it.

I'll wait for September's solicits. That month's will decide if I keep buying this book or not.
I don't buy comics for getting myself mad, and I have to carefully think where to put the contents of my wallet. A matter of being pragmatic.

----------


## Arctic Cyclist

> While that would be awesome, that would also raise SO many more questions.


Only about the timeline and why is Tim 16. It's hard to tell because DC's editorial is a complete and total FUBAR of a clusterfuck, but it's possible enough time has passed for Jade to have had Roy's baby. They had sex in Titans during the "Batman breaks them up because Donna goes crazy in two hundred years" story, and birth control was not brought up so it's probable there's a little Lian incubating somewhere. Born yet? Maybe. About two years appear to have passed in universe, but it's hard to tell since no one who works in the editorial offices has a functioning brain.

----------


## Arsenal

Since Bendis is pointing fingers at Jason as the man behind Leviathan from the beginning, I figure that means the odds of it actually being him when all is said and done are extremely low. No guarantee that he’ll gave a good showing in it regardless but I’m not yet worried DC is turning him into another rogue to be passed around the heroes.

----------


## Zaresh

> Since Bendis is pointing fingers at Jason as the man behind Leviathan from the beginning, I figure that means the odds of it actually being him when all is said and done are extremely low. No guarantee that he’ll gave a good showing in it regardless but I’m not yet worried DC is turning him into another rogue to be passed around the heroes.


Well, I think he is pointing to Jason *not* being behind Leviathan. Damian is going to attempt to prove that Jason isn't behind, so it's not so far fetched if Jason is actually connected to Leviathan in the end (shock value), or even Leviathan himself (which I think it's a lot less possible at this point, but still not an idea I would disregard yet).

Meh, I'm probably just being wary of getting another of my faves being run over by Bendis or any event, for shock value. I guess we'll know soon, nothing will come of me being all fired up for something that may not happen.

----------


## Arsenal

> Well, I think he is pointing to Jason *not* being behind Leviathan. Damian is going to attempt to prove that Jason isn't behind, so it's not so far fetched if Jason is actually connected to Leviathan in the end (shock value), or even Leviathan himself (which I think it's a lot less possible at this point, but still not an idea I would disregard yet).
> 
> Meh, I'm probably just being wary of getting another of my faves being run over by Bendis or any event, for shock value. I guess we'll know soon, nothing will come of me being all fired up for something that may not happen.


Even so, I just think that if Bendis intended for Jason to be Leviathan, he wouldn’t of been included at all so early in the story and saved for the middle - end for the reveal. I could be wrong though, it is Bendis after all.

----------


## Sergard

FADE





RedRidingHood




kkakkung

----------


## Sergard

B.O.P





muk_bu_

----------


## Sergard

no_CH_ka

----------


## Sergard

I didn't know that the batfamily spread by Tony S Daniel for Detective Comics #1000 originally looked a little different.

Unpublished spread (source)




Final version





I prefer the original version because it has a better family dynamic. In the final version you have Batman in the front and the rest in the background. There even seems to be a little bit of distance between Batman and the others.

----------


## RedBird

> I prefer the original version because it has a better family dynamic. In the final version you have Batman in the front and the rest in the background. There even seems to be a little bit of distance between Batman and the others.


Totally agree, the original looks way better, Bruce looks so awkwardly placed in the final version.

----------


## Restingvoice

> FADE


Oooh. That's... Chinese... circus? Right?




> I didn't know that the batfamily spread by Tony S Daniel for Detective Comics #1000 originally looked a little different.
> 
> Unpublished spread (source)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Final version
> 
> ...


Agree. The camera's pulled back too so they're not cramped.

----------


## adrikito

> So that's what Rocafort has been working on.
> 
> 
> 
> Source


*
RED HOOD: OUTLAW #37 
Grab some ammo and settle in for the beginning of the next generation of Outlaws!*


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.. Bizarro and Artemis were  PERFECT.  :Mad:

----------


## Arsenal

I’m not worried about that either. Figure Lobdell wouldn't dedicate the entire annual to Artemis & Biz if he didn’t have plans to bring them back (relatively) soon. For all we know, they could be brought back in the YOTV arc. I mean, who would’ve guessed we would have the return of Isabella, Al Caste, the blades, new Al Caste trainees, Ducra & Essence in a story about Jason taking over Penguin’s casino?

Hell, for all we know Luthor helping Jason find Artemis & Biz could end up being part of the deal.

----------


## adrikito

> Hell, for all we know Luthor helping Jason find Artemis & Biz could end up being part of the deal.


I hope that you are right in that.

----------


## Kalethas31

RED HOOD: OUTLAW #37
written by SCOTT LOBDELL
art and cover by KENNETH ROCAFORT
variant cover by PHILIP TAN
yes!!!!!!!!!!! Rocafort!!!! I wish that the regular artist loved his work!

----------


## Zaresh

> I didn't know that the batfamily spread by Tony S Daniel for Detective Comics #1000 originally looked a little different.
> 
> Unpublished spread (source)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Final version
> 
> ...


I agree. The original also feels less crowded, somehow.

----------


## Aahz

Red Hood Teaming up with the Power Rangers ... sort of  :Cool:

----------


## Sergard

Thomas Hedglen





Ella Grazie

----------


## gohei_

> 


This is a cool piece, but unless that bow weighs something like 50kg, there's no way he can stay balanced in that position  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Jackalope89

> This is a cool piece, but unless that bow weighs something like 50kg, there's no way he can stay balanced in that position


A year or two ago, on America's Got Talent, there was a girl who did that exact thing, and fired the arrow at a target (fairly accurately) for the opening to her later acts. No clue how heavy the bow was though.

----------


## Sergard

> A year or two ago, on America's Got Talent, there was a girl who did that exact thing, and fired the arrow at a target (fairly accurately) for the opening to her later acts. No clue how heavy the bow was though.


That girl had a different pose. Here's a youtube clip of her performance. You'll notice that her butt is nearly above her head and therefore her center of mass is pretty much above her arms. That's why she can keep her balance in this position. But in the fanart above, Jason's center of mass is probably somewhere behind his arms. So if he'd try to hold this pose for longer than a moment he'd normally loose balance and fall down. A heavier bow would shift the center to the front - but I don't think his toes/feet are strong enough to hold a 50 kg bow like that.

----------


## Restingvoice

Well, Leviathan is not Jason. They told Plastic Man in their recruitment poster in Newsarama that being born in a broken world _almost_ killed them.

----------


## Pohzee

I mean Jason's not dead now, so I guess it depends on how you view things.

----------


## Zaresh

> Well, Leviathan is not Jason. They told Plastic Man in their recruitment poster in Newsarama that being born in a broken world _almost_ killed them.


I read that post in Dick's thread. Mmm...
Mmm...

I may be convinced, but still cannot feel totally safe. Or feel relief, even. I know Ric is not Dick, but, eh... Eh... I don't like the idea either.

As I said, we'll see soon.

----------


## gohei_

> That girl had a different pose. Here's a youtube clip of her performance. You'll notice that her butt is nearly above her head and therefore her center of mass is pretty much above her arms. That's why she can keep her balance in this position. But in the fanart above, Jason's center of mass is probably somewhere behind his arms. So if he'd try to hold this pose for longer than a moment he'd normally loose balance and fall down. A heavier bow would shift the center to the front - but I don't think his toes/feet are strong enough to hold a 50 kg bow like that.


Exactly what I was thinking  :Smile:

----------


## RedBird

Anyone else hear the theory that Roy didn't actually die in HiC and is actually Leviathan?

How much validity do you think that one has?

----------


## Zaresh

> Anyone else hear the theory that Roy didn't actually die in HiC and is actually Leviathan?
> 
> How much validity do you think that one has?


The idea crosed my mind. Not that he didn't die, but that he was brought back by a Lazarus Pit. Now, who could do that, I couldn't think about a name. I don't know enough about the Arrow part of the DCU. Besides, he was cremated, wasn't he? But of course, there are ways to skip and go around that part.

----------


## Sergard

> https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2019/0...new-team-rises


Do these fan news writers normally have any insider information? Seems like this writer at least thinks that Isabel won't last. And although I'm still on the fence regarding her character and her relationship with Jason, I hope she won't get fridged. There is already enough drama in Jason's life and therefore no need to artificially create more drama.





> RED HOOD: OUTLAW #37
> written by SCOTT LOBDELL
> art and cover by KENNETH ROCAFORT
> variant cover by PHILIP TAN
> Leave it to Red Hood to get Lex Luthors strangest offer of all: to train the next generation of super-villains! Hand-picked for their incredible talents, not to mention their potential to spread villainy and doom across the globe. As the only super-villain in the world to have trained under Batman himself, Red Hood is the ideal instructor. But has Jason Todd fallen so far that hed take on the task of forging tomorrows Legion of Doom or Crime Syndicateor is he trying to work from within to undermine Lexs villainous machinations? Even if Red Hoods heart is in the right place, he still has to butt heads with his powerful and dangerous new pupils. Grab some ammo and settle in for the beginning of the next generation of Outlaws!


I'm looking forward to Rocafort's art. Judging by the cover he even adapts to Jason's more muscular Rebirth body than the thinner New52 version.
Seems like we lost Yasmine Putri to Flash. Obviously I'm biased but I prefer Yasmine Putri's batfamily variants over her Flash artworks.
I'm not sold on Tan's variant. It looks like Jason has fingernails on his finger joints and these fingernails are painted red. But the pose and the idea with the lightning in the background (a classic) are nice.

The next generation of super-villains looks more like a group of troubled teens that somehow ended up in a bad experiment that altered their appearances drastically, and while rejected by normal society they have to look after an infant. Calling Jason a "*super*-villain" is also a little bit of a far stretch. Even in his darkest hours his actions can't compare tho heavyweights like Joker, Ra's Al Ghul, Lex Luthor, etc.

But altogether, I'm still slightly optimistic that this will be an interesting read. Originally I feared that the current Teen Titans break up and that maybe Crush and someone else will be shifted to RH:O (because of the "Sidekicksbroken, battered and catastrophically dangerous sidekicks. The Teen Titans theyre not!" in the RH:O #36 solicitation). And although I'd like to see Jason and Crush interact, I prefer to see her in Teen Titans.




> Well, I think he is pointing to Jason *not* being behind Leviathan. Damian is going to attempt to prove that Jason isn't behind, so it's not so far fetched if Jason is actually connected to Leviathan in the end (shock value), or even Leviathan himself (which I think it's a lot less possible at this point, but still not an idea I would disregard yet).


I agree with Zaresh. That's how I see it too. And it annoys me. Especially since I have been looking forward to the YotV events. There are a lot of villains I like, for example Lex Luthor and Ra's Al Ghul. Even the Black Mask special would still have interested me despite the mentioned plot hole. But the threat of Jason being sacrificed à la Morrison really takes the fun out of everything. Not even the tiny chance of Jason and Silencer meeting in Leviathan #3 can light up my mood. The chances are probably higher anyway that Silencer appears but Jason will only get mentioned. Like in Teen Titans and Damian's "secret mentor". I don't understand why Batman needs so many "detectives" to solve the mystery if he could just go to Jason and ask him if he's Leviathan or not.




> I agree. The original also feels less crowded, somehow.


I appreciate that Daniel changed Alfred's necktie to a bow-tie; probably because Alfred's pose changed from a half-body shot to a head shot. A necktie in the final version would have empathized the feeling of Alfred being cramped into the background.
Jason's final pose was originally Duke's. There's nothing wrong with the pose per se but it looks a little strange with Dick and Jason so close together and both stand cross-armed. Duke and Dick had two people between them - and there was more background around Duke so that his pose could "breathe" more while in the final version the focus is more heavily on Jason's chest and arms instead of perceiving the pose as a whole.
I don't like Damian in either version. He sits either crouched in the front or crouched in the back. Both options aren't in his favor.

----------


## Sergard

> Well, Leviathan is not Jason. They told Plastic Man in their recruitment poster in Newsarama that being born in a broken world _almost_ killed them.


I've seen those posters. For everyone else: Here's the Newsarama article.





*Batman*





*
Green Arrow*

----------


## Sergard

*Plastic Man*






*Batgirl*






*Lois Lane*

----------


## Sergard

*The Question*





*Manhunter*






To be honest, I can imagine Jason saying some of that stuff. On the other hand, Jason has no real connection to most of these characters. So it would be strange for him to be so emotional towards them.

And so far I haven't seen any real analysis of who Leviathan could be, only guesses and rumor spreading.
Personally, I'd be thrilled if Leviathan was actually more than one person.

----------


## Sergard

taya (@natchrisart) "_Faux trailer for a (coming soon!) fancomic written by @_anelderling and illustrated by me, A Second Darkness. #Nightwing #RedHood_"

(Little info: The text is from the "Parable of the Prodigal Son".)

----------


## Sergard

(continuation)

----------


## Sergard

(continuation)

----------


## Sergard

(last page)





I don't know if this is going to be good or not but the preview is *intense*, you can't argue with that.

----------


## Sergard

And here are some fanarts by mrkokkuri-chan. I can't remember if I already posted them in the past or not. His tumblr name sounds familiar though.



(source)





(source)




(source)

----------


## Sergard

(source)





(source)


I don't know if this fanart is too "sexy", so maybe a NSFW-warning, but I think it's nicely done and surprisingly aesthetically pleasing.

----------


## G-Potion

> (last page)
> 
> I don't know if this is going to be good or not but the preview is *intense*, you can't argue with that.


True. I haven't seen something this grand when it comes to collabs in this fandom.

----------


## Jackalope89

> True. I haven't seen something this grand when it comes to collabs in this fandom.


My only gripe, was that Dick looked rather feminine.

----------


## Sergard

kaichu





bluetost_T

----------


## redmax99

> Anyone else hear the theory that Roy didn't actually die in HiC and is actually Leviathan?
> 
> How much validity do you think that one has?


i know i joke about it a couple of times but he's only been dead 9 months




> The idea crosed my mind. Not that he didn't die, but that he was brought back by a Lazarus Pit. Now, who could do that, I couldn't think about a name. I don't know enough about the Arrow part of the DCU. Besides, he was cremated, wasn't he? But of course, there are ways to skip and go around that part.


the only person who might bring Roy back is vandal savage his one of Roy great relatives

----------


## Restingvoice

0yongyong0 pokemon AU

----------


## Zaresh

> kaichu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bluetost_T


These two are incredibly cute. Well, the second-third one is incredibly sad, but still, cute. I love all the chibis in the first one, and how they're posing.

----------


## Sergard

nockuth

----------


## Sergard

I didn't notice at first, but:

RH:O #35 - June 12, 2019
RH:O #36 - July 10, 2019
RH:O Annual #3 - July 31, 2019
RH:O #37 - August 28, 2019

That's a pretty big time gap between RH:O #36 and #37.

----------


## Zaresh

> I didn't notice at first, but:
> 
> RH:O #35 - June 12, 2019
> RH:O #36 - July 10, 2019
> RH:O Annual #3 - July 31, 2019
> RH:O #37 - August 28, 2019
> 
> That's a pretty big time gap between RH:O #36 and #37.


So... we're changed to the last week of each month? Weird, but I guess they'll at least take advantage of the annual that way, in case they wanted to reorganize their release schedule for all their books or something (with all the cancellations and all that). Unless it's because some kind of spoiler related to the events for this summer. Hmmm...

----------


## deadboy80

Love that they are finally bringing back the all caste. Love this idea. I wish they would move in a direction where Jason embraces this. He could totally be DC's jedi knight. This would really give him his own identity apart from the other ex-Robins.

----------


## Sergard

> So... we're changed to the last week of each month? Weird, but I guess they'll at least take advantage of the annual that way, in case they wanted to reorganize their release schedule for all their books or something (with all the cancellations and all that). *Unless it's because some kind of spoiler related to the events for this summer. Hmmm...*


I was thinking the same. There is so much going on this summer with YotV that I don't know anymore what's important and what's not, especially since it's not clear if Jason will have a big role to play or actually none at all because everything is just a red herring.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Philip Tan posted the inks of 37's variant cover

D7CFPkNU0AAdo3n.jpg

https://twitter.com/philipsytan/stat...50015041056768

----------


## J. D. Guy

> Im not worried about that either. Figure Lobdell wouldn't dedicate the entire annual to Artemis & Biz if he didnt have plans to bring them back (relatively) soon. For all we know, they could be brought back in the YOTV arc. I mean, who wouldve guessed we would have the return of Isabella, Al Caste, the blades, new Al Caste trainees, Ducra & Essence in a story about Jason taking over Penguins casino?
> 
> Hell, for all we know Luthor helping Jason find Artemis & Biz could end up being part of the deal.


I've been super behind on most things comics-related, but with all these internal call-backs (including the external call-back of Bunker), I hope we'll get to see Crux/Simon Amal get an extended return into Jason's life soon, too. (Not sure if he's been seen or referenced since his early cameo appearance way back when, since, again, I've been busy with semester things.)

I'm also happy to see Isabella again. She and Jason had a brief, but overall comfy-feeling thing with one another back then.

Anyway, looking forward to Jason being a villainous mentor who's a stealth hero mentor to these macabre-looking new kids!

----------


## Restingvoice

> Philip Tan posted the inks of 37's variant cover
> 
> Attachment 82570
> 
> https://twitter.com/philipsytan/stat...50015041056768


That reminds me... what do you guys prefer for Jason Todd art? Rough and tough and fierce like Jim Lee, Lee Bermejo and this, or athletic pretty boyish like Rocafort and Dexter Soy?

----------


## Zaresh

> That reminds me... what do you guys prefer for Jason Todd art? Rough and tough and fierce like Jim Lee, Lee Bermejo and this, or athletic pretty boyish like Rocafort and Dexter Soy?


Rocafort and Soy. By far.
I don't remember Bermejo's art style, but if he's anything like Jim Lee's, it's a no brainer for me. I honestly have never liked the heroic canon, so you can guess. Even less when they draw 18 year olders like they are half way their 40s.

Now then, if the big muscle tough looking guys come with some nice lighting and shadding and / or some other stylistic choice that feels different, I can like it as much as well.

----------


## Arsenal

> I've been super behind on most things comics-related, but with all these internal call-backs (including the external call-back of Bunker), I hope we'll get to see Crux/Simon Amal get an extended return into Jason's life soon, too. (Not sure if he's been seen or referenced since his early cameo appearance way back when, since, again, I've been busy with semester things.)
> 
> I'm also happy to see Isabella again. She and Jason had a brief, but overall comfy-feeling thing with one another back then.
> 
> Anyway, looking forward to Jason being a villainous mentor who's a stealth hero mentor to these macabre-looking new kids!


I believe Crux had a blink-and-you-miss-it one panel cameo post RHATO 25 but I cant remember in which issue.

----------


## G-Potion

> That reminds me... what do you guys prefer for Jason Todd art? Rough and tough and fierce like Jim Lee, Lee Bermejo and this, or athletic pretty boyish like Rocafort and Dexter Soy?


Rocafort and Dexter Soy because it's important to me that he looks his age.

----------


## Aahz

Lee and Soy, the Rocafort is imo to skinny.

----------


## Sergard

Jumpix




Javchan




mag6_osashi3

----------


## Sergard

3Mega

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I miss Soy's Costume.

----------


## Jackalope89



----------


## Aahz

I was wondering if have seen in the last days two videos about Jasons history, where it was claimed that he stole Batmans hubcaps.

Does anybody know where this idea comes from? I mean you don't have to be an hard core comics fan to know that he stole his tires and not the hubcaps.

----------


## Zaresh

> I was wondering if have seen in the last days two videos about Jasons history, where it was claimed that he stole Batmans hubcaps.
> 
> Does anybody know where this idea comes from? I mean you don't have to be an hard core comics fan to know that he stole his tires and not the hubcaps.


Maybe it comes from what people think has a better value/risk ratio? I definitely always saw hubcaps being stolen, but tyres, not so much.

----------


## Sergard

A little sneak peek of Red Hood in Three Jokers (source: Jason Fabok on Twitter)

"_Is that rain....or blood? Red Hood really brings it in Three Jokers. @geoffjohns is writing a story on another level and really getting deep with Jason Todd and his history. Might be his definitive tale. Here's a peek._"



And here are some comments.

Jason Fabok Three Jokers Red Hood comments.jpg

----------


## G-Potion

I wonder if Fabok has had the same positive comments regarding the other characters in 3 Jokers. The way he's spoken about RH so far is making me eager for this presentation of Jason.

----------


## RedBird

> I wonder if Fabok has had the same positive comments regarding the other characters in 3 Jokers. The way he's spoken about RH so far is making me eager for this presentation of Jason.


Maybe its just me, but in regards to this series, I haven't seen him post about Babs, Bruce or even the Joker with such constant acclaim and endorsement.
Every time Jasons role in the story is brought up, Fabok is quick to praise Johns and teases about how great this story is for RH.

It's certainly gotten me intrigued, what could be so special about Jasons depiction in a story that's already filled with such amazing characters that Fabok feels the need to single him out every time. If it was all just hot air and general appeasement to gain attraction to the series, (as I admittedly initially thought it was) surely then Fabok would be doing the same with all the characters and saying how much this story will be an epic tale for Babs, Bruce etc.

----------


## Sergard

RUSKE

----------


## Sergard

RUSKE





Miffy Joestar




nerdbird

----------


## Sergard

New twitter post by Jason Fabok about the Three Jokers story:




> #Batman from the upcoming Batman: Three Jokers by Geoff Johns and myself. Geoff is really writing a classic feeling Dark Knight who relies on his detective skills as much as his martial arts to bring justice to the Joker. #Threejokers #dccomics







Nothing new about Jason but still an interesting post.

----------


## J. D. Guy

> I believe Crux had a blink-and-you-miss-it one panel cameo post RHATO 25 but I cant remember in which issue.


Ah. Well, if it comes to mind, feel free to post.

And again, I hope to see him again, too, in this nostalgia fest.

----------


## G-Potion

> RUSKE


Oooh cute I especially love the ones with the All Blades.

----------


## adrikito

batfamily:

Attachment 82718

----------


## Sergard

Dexter Soy: "_Like father like (prodigal)son_"

----------


## Sergard

> Ah. Well, if it comes to mind, feel free to post.
> 
> And again, I hope to see him again, too, in this nostalgia fest.


I second that. I want Crux back on the team. He was cool.

The only mention of Dr. Simon Amal/Crux that I've found in the Rebirth run is this one from RHatO #5:

Red Hood #5 Dr Simon Amal Crux.jpg

Red Hood #5 Dr Simon Amal Crux 2.jpg

----------


## Arsenal

> I second that. I want Crux back on the team. He was cool.
> 
> The only mention of Dr. Simon Amal/Crux that I've found in the Rebirth run is this one from RHatO #5:
> 
> Red Hood #5 Dr Simon Amal Crux.jpg
> 
> Red Hood #5 Dr Simon Amal Crux 2.jpg


Maybe that’s the panels I was thinking of.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Dexter Soy: "_Like father like (prodigal)son_"


For real, when is Soy coming back? He's obviously still interested on RHATO.

----------


## Sergard

A little reassurance that RH:O is a "safe" title, but the whole article sounds very generic.




> [...]BATMAN will ship alongside a new 12-issue BATMAN/CATWOMAN series by Tom King and Clay Mann, while Bat-Family titles DETECTIVE COMICS, CATWOMAN, NIGHTWING, BATGIRL and others will continue into 2020 with no immediate changes to their shipping schedules.
> 
> [...]
> 
> “We’re excited for fans to get more of what they love from DC,” said Harras. “With Joëlle Jones continuing on CATWOMAN, a new creative team on BATMAN, plus titles like DETECTIVE COMICS, BATGIRL, NIGHTWING, RED HOOD: OUTLAW and BATMAN AND THE OUTSIDERS, our Gotham City protectors and the talent behind them will continue to offer great stories that cater to the tastes of as many Bat-fans as possible in 2020 and beyond.”


(source)

----------


## Zaresh

> A little reassurance that RH:O is a "safe" title, but the whole article sounds very generic.
> 
> 
> 
> (source)


Oh, good. Seems like, so far, they are not thinking about drastic changes for RH:O. Whatever will be, it sounds more and more like all that villainous act for YotV is just that: an act of some sort. At least, at this point in time ¯\(ツ)/¯. So I guess we can rule him out for the Leviathan run.

I just hope there are no more abrupt turns like the latest we've had for a while.

----------


## Sergard

Bleeding Cool also thinks that Jason is just a red herring.



Does anyone follow Detective Comics at the moment? What's the current opinion on the new Arkham Knight?

----------


## Restingvoice

> Bleeding Cool also thinks that Jason is just a red herring.
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone follow Detective Comics at the moment? What's the current opinion on the new Arkham Knight?


What I heard is the back story is absurd, half because of the timeline and half because of the parents' bad decisions

----------


## Sergard

This is cute.

zumaon

----------


## RedBird

> I second that. I want Crux back on the team. He was cool.
> 
> The only mention of Dr. Simon Amal/Crux that I've found in the Rebirth run is this one from RHatO #5:
> 
> Red Hood #5 Dr Simon Amal Crux.jpg
> 
> Red Hood #5 Dr Simon Amal Crux 2.jpg


I second, second that, Crux was one of the few characters from the original rhato series whose character progression I REALLY liked.
Hopefully he's brought back soon, maybe to help Jason with these new teammates? Study their powers? etc

----------


## Aahz



----------


## Sergard

> 


There are people who know that Jason Todd is Red Hood but don't know that he was Robin?

I didn't know that the phone calls were part of a social experiment. I thought it was just a way for DC to earn some money.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

It was, they're just revising things these days to made themselves look better.

----------


## JasonTodd428

> It was, they're just revising things these days to made themselves look better.


I don't always agree with you Dark but I agree with you here.

----------


## Sergard

> It was, they're just revising things these days to made themselves look better.


I still wonder how DC would describe the conclusion of the "social experiment". I think there is a reason why DC has never dared again to let phone calls decide if a character lives or dies.
I'm not sure if there's even one character in the DC universe that would survive if his/her fate was in the hands of the readers/phone callers. Sometimes it seems that people are more passionate about hating something than about loving something.

----------


## Zaresh

> I still wonder how DC would describe the conclusion of the "social experiment". I think there is a reason why DC has never dared again to let phone calls decide if a character lives or dies.
> I'm not sure if there's even one character in the DC universe that would survive if his/her fate was in the hands of the readers/phone callers. *Sometimes it seems that people are more passionate about hating something than about loving something.*


As far as I know, in my experience, they are. It's why bad reviews often have more impact and more visibility than good ones, and why it's more easy to find bad reviews that good reviews, I think.

----------


## JasonTodd428

> I still wonder how DC would describe the conclusion of the "social experiment". *I think there is a reason why DC has never dared again to let phone calls decide if a character lives or dies.*
> I'm not sure if there's even one character in the DC universe that would survive if his/her fate was in the hands of the readers/phone callers. Sometimes it seems that people are more passionate about hating something than about loving something.


There was a lot of backlash for them killing "Robin" from people including people outside of comics. Of course people outside of comics thought the Robin that had been killed was Dick but still there was enough of a backlash that I imagine DC thought it best to never do one again. And you're correct in that if they did something similar today there would be no way any character would survive the vote. People love to hate on things these days and now they have more of a platform for that hate with social media and so forth.

----------


## Zaresh

Which reminds me... How did the poll for the TV series turn out in the end? The one about Jason, in Titans.

----------


## Sergard

> And you're correct in that if they did something similar today there would be no way any character would survive the vote. People love to hate on things these days and now they have more of a platform for that hate with social media and so forth.


Thinking about it, maybe the Joker has a chance of surviving.

----------


## Sergard

0022212t: きょうだいらくがき (translated: siblings scribble)

----------


## Eto

> 


Awesome. I’m subscribed to their channel, but I haven’t been on YT today.

----------


## Sergard

uth69

----------


## Sergard

B.O.P

----------


## Sergard

Tim mentions Dick, Jason and Damian in the preview of Heroes in Crisis #9.
I'm glad HiC is over. So much potential shredded on the first pages of the first issue.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I will never not be mad at HiC and King by senselessly killing Roy

----------


## Jackalope89

> I will never not be mad at HiC and King by senselessly killing Roy


And so much more. 

If HiC had actually been about the heroes getting psychological help, I would have been fine with it. But turning it into what it was from the start? I didn't even drop the Bendis Super comics as fast as I did HiC.

----------


## Sergard

I can't express how much I love JJMK's art. New artwork:

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

From BC's review of HiC #9




> And the headshots expand across the DC Universe, the final issue *especially scattering the testimonials of all the different Robins who seem to be obsessed with how people see everyone else who is a Robin*


Aw crap.

----------


## Sergard

> From BC's review of HiC #9
> 
> 
> 
> Aw crap.


Life sucks really hard right now.

----------


## Sergard

Is that true?

twitter Nathaniel Olshan.jpg

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

First time I heard of it.

----------


## G-Potion

> From BC's review of HiC #9
> 
> 
> 
> Aw crap.


Darn it King leave them alone.

----------


## G-Potion

> Is that true?
> 
> twitter Nathaniel Olshan.jpg


I don't recall him saying that.

----------


## Jackalope89

If true, that would be awesome. Though it would beg the question; what version of the Outlaws would it be? And would Jason be resurrected, or not?

----------


## Zaresh

> I don't recall him saying that.


I do recall something like that. Not so clear, but he definitely said that people definitely liked Jason (but I think he was talking about the people involved in the series, not the audience. Who we know liked him fine enough by how the reviews were written, I guess). And a few months before, there was a strong rumour flowing throughout the net about them thinking about a Red Hood, more or less towards when there was the more-than-just-a-rumour-then Swamp Thing series.

----------


## Sergard

batfries








batfries

----------


## G-Potion

> I do recall something like that. Not so clear, but he definitely said that people definitely liked Jason (but I think he was talking about the people involved in the series, not the audience. Who we know liked him fine enough by how the reviews were written, I guess). And a few months before, there was a strong rumour flowing throughout the net about them thinking about a Red Hood, more or less towards when there was the more-than-just-a-rumour-then Swamp Thing series.


Yeah I do remember it the way you described and not something definitive like how the person above said. I think they might have merged what Jones said and the RHO show rumors into one thing.

----------


## Badou

> From BC's review of HiC #9
> 
> 
> 
> Aw crap.


Ugh, I hate when they segment the Robins like that. It is always badly written. Dick has 80 years of comic history and to try and boil it down to "the funny one" or "the athletic one" is so grating. Even Jason has probably been more comedic for long stretches beyond just being "the angry/rebellious one", especially under Lobdell. I've never seen it written well when a writer tries to force these basic descriptors on them like that.

----------


## Aahz

The thing with "the funny one" makes me sometimes wonder if those guys have read totally different Nightwing comics than I. Or if they are just doing their research about the characters on tumblr.

King is anyway an author where I'm each time happy when Jason does not appear in his book.

----------


## Zaresh

> Yeah I do remember it the way you described and not something definitive like how the person above said. I think they might have merged what Jones said and the RHO show rumors into one thing.


Yep, that's my guess. I cannot blaem them, though; it really sounded like they wanted to do something with Jason, but I think what we will get in the end is what we already know: that Jason will have a prominent role in the next season. I wonder if we will see afterwards that, even if Titans doesn't survive pass season 2 (unlikely, but you never know), with his own show.

In any case, I guess it's more than confirmed that Jones likes the character in some way (even if he may picture him a more dangerous than he already is in whatever comes from him). And then, look at what he has done with Billy too: I'm going to guess he has sort of a soft spot, for the less fortunate children.

----------


## Arsenal

> From BC's review of HiC #9
> 
> 
> 
> Aw crap.


That’s honestly just a waste. All of them offer much more potentially compelling confessionals than some basic “Robin A is this, Robin B is that and I’m just blank”

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I'm more concerned about the implications, because if I'm reading that right, Jason did stay at Sanctuary at some point.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I'm more concerned about the implications, because if I'm reading that right, Jason did stay at Sanctuary at some point.


And yet, in the annual, it was like Jason had never been there, let alone heard of it, until Roy went.

----------


## Arsenal

To be fair, Jason didn’t seem surprised in the slightest that a rehab for capes existed or questioned its legitimacy so his presence in HIC via confessional wouldn’t necessarily contradict what was done in the annual.

You could argue that RHATO #27 makes it a bit difficult but it could be explained as Bruce simply being unaware that Jason went there.

----------


## Jackalope89

> To be fair, Jason didn’t seem surprised in the slightest that a rehab for capes existed or questioned its legitimacy so his presence in HIC via confessional wouldn’t necessarily contradict what was done in the annual.
> 
> You could argue that RHATO #27 makes it a bit difficult but it could be explained as Bruce simply being unaware that Jason went there.


Worse, if I remember right, Bruce was about to haul Jason off to Arkham in #25 until Biz, and later, Roy intervened.

----------


## Arsenal

> Worse, if I remember right, Bruce was about to haul Jason off to Arkham in #25 until Biz, and later, Roy intervened.


Trust me, I’m not questioning that Bruce’s relationship with Jason since his resurrection (or even before) has been problematic. Just offering a way that Jason’s presence in HIC #9 might not disregard what was presented in Jason’s book.

----------


## Sergard

> Tim mentions Dick, Jason and Damian in the preview of Heroes in Crisis #9.
> I'm glad HiC is over. So much potential shredded on the first pages of the first issue.


Some artists draw faster than Flash can run.

gothamtwinks

----------


## Sergard

Yebba: "_mother panic gotham a.d kinda was eh but jason got a new mom, an older sister, and a murderous niece… cant stop thinking about jason being a paige family member_"

----------


## Sergard

Jason can wear anything. He always looks good.

Rin

----------


## Mr Abductor

So i've recently gotten into Red Hood, a respect thread mentions that he can summon some magic swords called the all blades, does he still have them and has he used them in his Rebirth run?

----------


## Arsenal

> So i've recently gotten into Red Hood, a respect thread mentions that he can summon some magic swords called the all blades, does he still have them and has he used them in his Rebirth run?


He does have and use them in the Rebirth run but not very frequently. If memory serves me right, it's only in the 2nd arc and the current one where those blades come into play.

----------


## Zaresh

> So i've recently gotten into Red Hood, a respect thread mentions that he can summon some magic swords called the all blades, does he still have them and has he used them in his Rebirth run?


Welcome to this thread, btw.

----------


## J. D. Guy

> I second that. I want Crux back on the team. He was cool.
> 
> The only mention of Dr. Simon Amal/Crux that I've found in the Rebirth run is this one from RHatO #5:
> 
> Attachment 82719
> 
> Attachment 82722


Agreed.

And yep. That was the early appearance I was referring to (in flashback no less, that shows Jason at least keeps in touch).

----------


## Mr Abductor

Thanks for the replies, just wanted a bit of knowledge on Jason's skillset.

Really been enjoying the run, Jason plays off Artemis and Bizarro well, so far there my favourite concurrent DC team. With the exception of Detective Comics, you really feel as if the team is close and generally likes and respects each other.

The family drama helps it stands out from other traditional superhero team books so its refreshing, the lethal force is also something of a personal plus for me, always love more some blood and gore lol
Hope this run reaches 50!

----------


## adrikito

> One Punch Man 
> 
> Jason is Saitama
> 
> Damian is Tatsumaki
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://wintea-melon.tumblr.com


Hahahahahahaha..

----------


## adrikito

> 


Who is this girl?

----------


## RedBird

Saw this on tumblr, if anyone is curious about the HIC appearence.

----------


## RedBird

Nevermind, Damian, Steph and Cass, way too many batkids to post, this is Jays thread anyways.

I just included Tim and Dicks 'confession' here for context since theirs all match.

----------


## RedBird

> Who is this girl?


That's Fennec Fox otherwise known as Rosie from Mother Panic, in the series she tries to convince Violet to let her join her crusade as a sidekick.

----------


## Zaresh

> Saw this on tumblr, if anyone is curious about the HIC appearence.


Have to admit, King at least made him describe some of the others (Damian and Tim) differently (and dick calling Damian dangerous, heh, that's cute). To each their own.

----------


## Sergard

> Nevermind, Damian, Steph and Cass, way too many batkids to post, this is Jays thread anyways.
> 
> I just included Tim and Dicks 'confession' here for context since theirs all match.


Do you have a link to the other confessions? I'm curious. 
And confused. Jason is wearing his new outfit. Isn't Roy already dead when Jason starts wearing it?

----------


## Aahz

Tim is "dark" in comparison to Jason and Damian?

----------


## Sergard

Why is Jason so tiny in the panel?

----------


## Restingvoice

> Do you have a link to the other confessions? I'm curious. 
> And confused. Jason is wearing his new outfit. Isn't Roy already dead when Jason starts wearing it?


Roy was still alive but Bruce and Jason weren't on speaking terms

----------


## Korath

It's implied that the confessions in this issues happens after the events of HiC.

----------


## Sergard

> It's implied that the confessions in this issues happens after the events of HiC.


Sanctuary is still open after the whole massacre?

----------


## RedBird

> Do you have a link to the other confessions? I'm curious. 
> And confused. Jason is wearing his new outfit. Isn't Roy already dead when Jason starts wearing it?


Well since ya want it, I guess one Jason-less post won't hurt. :P

----------


## RedBird

> Sanctuary is still open after the whole massacre?


I guess they forgot to turn the video recorder off after they left, so its just a free for all confession booth now. :P

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Roy was already dead by the time issue 26 takes place.

----------


## Sergard

> Tim is "dark" in comparison to Jason and Damian?


Yeah, I thought the same. I definitely prefer Jason's answer. Smart and loyal fits. 

Jason called Damian "little one". That's what Artemis called Jason when the met the first time, I think. Now I miss Artemis and Bizarro even more.

----------


## yohyoi

Tim became fascist Batman multiple times. Damian and Jason never went that deep. Always saw Tim as the most villain potential. He is closest to Batman's personality but he doesn't have Bruce's trauma and obsession about not killing. I saw Jason and Damian as misunderstood and tries their best to do what's right in their minds.

----------


## Jackalope89

Yeah, I'm just going to pretend that part didn't happen. Makes no sense at all. And I would like to do the same with the rest of HiC, but it just hits too much of the universe to do so.

----------


## Sergard

SdimoBakto




SdimoBakto





Fade

----------


## Restingvoice

> I guess they forgot to turn the video recorder off after they left, so its just a free for all confession booth now. :P


It's becoming a meme now and I kinda like it. At least there's something that made me laugh from all of this.

----------


## adrikito

> Tim is "dark" in comparison to Jason and Damian?


I am surprised for that too..

----------


## Rac7d*

[QUOTE=RedBird;4379747]Saw this on tumblr, if anyone is curious about the HIC appearence.







if they only knew

----------


## Aahz

https://www.deviantart.com/kira-meku...TMAN-799477735

----------


## Sergard

Has anyone else read "Batman: Last Knight on Earth" so far?
I don't know if Jason will have an appearance in it or not but it's possible that there will be a turned evil Batman disciple. 
Does anyone want to place bets?

@Aahz: That's Terry on the fanart.

----------


## Aahz

> @Aahz: That's Terry on the fanart.


Upps my bad, I searched for "Jason Todd" and the picture popped up, and I didn't read the text.  :Frown:

----------


## Sergard

Red Hood: Outlaw #35 finalized cover





When was Essence in Gotham?

----------


## Zaresh

> Red Hood: Outlaw #35 finalized cover
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When was Essence in Gotham?


That cover is a serious killer. Is it by the same artist than the two previous covers? He may be a serial killer: they're beautiful, imho, in a very simple, classic way.

I don't know about Esssence, though. Can't help here. She showed uo in the ship when Jasomn, Roy and Kori were in their way to Gotham or from Gotham, maybe? Or it was somewhere else.

----------


## Restingvoice

> That cover is a serious killer. Is it by the same artist than the two previous covers? He may be a serial killer: they're beautiful, imho, in a very simple, classic way.
> 
> I don't know about Esssence, though. Can't help here. She showed uo in the ship when Jasomn, Roy and Kori were in their way to Gotham or from Gotham, maybe? Or it was somewhere else.


They were leaving after dropping Crux in Arkham when she showed up so I guess that counts as in Gotham

Oh and the next two issues they're still in Gotham. So yeah. She's in Gotham.

----------


## Sergard

> That cover is a serious killer. Is it by the same artist than the two previous covers? He may be a serial killer: they're beautiful, imho, in a very simple, classic way.
> 
> I don't know about Esssence, though. Can't help here. She showed up in the ship when Jason, Roy and Kori were in their way to Gotham or from Gotham, maybe? Or it was somewhere else.


Cully Hamner has drawn all RH:O standard covers since #31.
#36 will be by Dan Panosian and #37 by Rocafort (and don't forget the upcoming annual with a cover by Dexter Soy <3).
Cully Hamner will also draw the interior of "Black Mask: Year of the Villain #1", written by Tom Taylor and on sale 08.14.19.

----------


## Zaresh

Oh, dear. This is the last time I post while I'm in the bus. I think this is the second time I've said this, but... Those are some funny spelling mistakes XD.




> Cully Hamner has drawn all RH:O standard covers since #31.
> #36 will be by Dan Panosian and #37 by Rocafort (and don't forget the upcoming annual with a cover by Dexter Soy <3).
> Cully Hamner will also draw the interior of "Black Mask: Year of the Villain #1", written by Tom Taylor and on sale 08.14.19.





> They were leaving after dropping Crux in Arkham when she showed up so I guess that counts as in Gotham
> 
> Oh and the next two issues they're still in Gotham. So yeah. She's in Gotham.


Thanks to both, for answering my questions, btw.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

The guns are coming back



D714SZ9WkAEM7_1.jpg

https://twitter.com/thatpetewoods/st...95007571877889

----------


## Aahz

> Tim became fascist Batman multiple times.


Afaik it was always the same fascist Batman, he just appeared in multiple story lines. Even the one from Tynions Run, had full memory of the pre flashpoint time line.

But thats any way the future version, if we look at the current versions I don't think he is particularly dark, especially if we look what Jason is doing currently and Tim being back in Young Justice.

----------


## Sergard

> The guns are coming back
> 
> 
> 
> Attachment 82892
> 
> https://twitter.com/thatpetewoods/st...95007571877889


That's some beautiful art. I didn't know that Lokus can color like that (actually reminds me more of Woods' own coloring style).
I wonder if there'll be an explanation why the guns were gone and are back now. Especially since there was a scene in RH:O #29 in which Jason picks up a gun but immediately lays it down when confronting the villain.

----------


## G-Potion

> The guns are coming back
> 
> 
> 
> Attachment 82892
> 
> https://twitter.com/thatpetewoods/st...95007571877889


If he ditches the crowbar I'll be happy. Don't ditch anything else though, still prefer street fighting style to gun-fu. Unless Woods gives him Injustice Red Hood's moves.

----------


## Jackalope89

> If he ditches the crowbar I'll be happy. Don't ditch anything else though, still prefer street fighting style to gun-fu. Unless Woods gives him Injustice Red Hood's moves.


Crowbar-kun, no!

----------


## Sergard

remina

----------


## Celgress

> [URL="https://twitter.com/akkiyamia/status/1134402961520508928"]


So damn creepy.  :EEK!:  I sure hope that isn't supposed to be Bruce leading our trio of boys astray.

----------


## Jackalope89

... 

Anyway, I'm pretty sure Jason isn't "Leviathan". Why? The guy didn't have Dog with him at all. Unless Dog IS Leviathan!

----------


## Zaresh

> So damn creepy.  I sure hope that isn't supposed to be Bruce leading our trio of boys astray.


I guess he's Damian, because he's "a demon".




> ... 
> 
> Anyway, I'm pretty sure Jason isn't "Leviathan". Why? The guy didn't have Dog with him at all. Unless Dog IS Leviathan!


evildog.jpg

Edit: meh, the gif doesn't work. What a let-down.

----------


## Sergard

> So damn creepy.  I sure hope that isn't supposed to be Bruce leading our trio of boys astray.


Since the Google translation reads "The human pets brought home by father", I'm pretty sure that's Damian.




> ... 
> 
> Anyway, I'm pretty sure Jason isn't "Leviathan". Why? The guy didn't have Dog with him at all. Unless Dog IS Leviathan!


Dog can't be Leviathan. Dog would have had Jason with her.  :Wink:

----------


## RedBird

> ... 
> 
> Anyway, I'm pretty sure Jason isn't "Leviathan". Why? The guy didn't have Dog with him at all. Unless Dog IS Leviathan!


Jason be walkin in like

----------


## Sergard

inkydandy






Reminder:





> I've noticed that a few of you on this thread are artistic types who have posted or expressed an interest in creating works of art so i thought this might interest you.
> 
> * Gotham Bold: A Batfamily Fashion Zine!*
> 
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...06Q1McpPA/edit
> 
> https://t.co/SWJclTem6f
> 
> https://twitter.com/BatFamFashion

----------


## Sergard

> Jason be walkin in like



That reminds me of this post from Pete Woods in which he writes that he'd like to draw for the Silent Hill franchise.
But why not have a little Silent Hill feeling in RH:O?
Just imagine Morrison Red Hood popping up and taking his phallus helmet off and that thing is underneath (doodle by Pete Woods):

----------


## Sergard

JarrulusX





JarrulusX





Mia

----------


## Restingvoice

> 


I know the red eyes and the cross are supposed to imply demonic shepherding, but my mind just went straight to the worst place that happens in real life before I realized it's Damian.

----------


## Sergard

musuta





yeen_1225

----------


## Arsenal

Did y’all see the Woods tweet where he said the last colored picture of Jason he posted might not (solely) be for RH:O but something else he can’t talk about?

----------


## Sergard

> Did yall see the Woods tweet where he said the last colored picture of Jason he posted might not (solely) be for RH:O but something else he cant talk about?


This one?
Fortunately, that's not cryptic at all.  :Confused: 

But at least Woods confirms in another comment that he did the colors. I really dig the pastel background.

----------


## Arsenal

> This one?
> Fortunately, that's not cryptic at all. 
> 
> But at least Woods confirms in another comment that he did the colors. I really dig the pastel background.


Yeah, that’s the one.

----------


## Sergard

bonfire2442




bonfire2442




Karo

----------


## Sergard

takaaashigani





takaaashigani

----------


## Sergard

> Mia


Colored version




elalalune

----------


## RedBird

jjmk-jjmk







_#Some moments in Jason’s life_

----------


## Sergard

RedRidingHood

----------


## Sergard

> Yeah, that's the one.


Okay, my first guess was a Penguin: Year of the Villain Special (similar to Black Mask and Sinestro) which shows the final showdown between Jason and Penguin (the long black thing in the panel front could be Penguin's cane). But it would be kind of awkward if DC tells that story in a separate issue instead of RH:O - especially since Black Mask and Sinestro are also stand-alone stories, I think. So my second guess is a RHatO special similar to the Titans or Teen Titans special when the new teams were introduced. So maybe Bizarro and Artemis will finally return and/or these punk kids from #37 will officially be added to the RHatO cast.

But hopefully the next solicitations will tell us a little more.
The shown panel is already colored and Woods isn't drawing RH:O #37 although his last pause isn't that long ago with #32. That makes me believe that Woods is on a rather tight time schedule with his sorta-RHatO-relevant work. So I expect an announcement in the near future.
Maybe that's even the reason why the RHatO schedule has changed in August to the last week of the month. Because otherwise Woods wouldn't be able to draw whatever he is drawing now and RH:O #38.

----------


## Arsenal

Maybe Woods is contributing towards one of the Leviathan books? (That's a thing right? I'm pretty sure that's a thing that happens)

Though a possible one shot special that formally re-establishes the Outlaws team (whoever they may be) could be it. Or could be a RHATO related YOTV one shot. Than again, both of those possibilities don't necessarily have to be separate things.

----------


## RedBird

jaykore

----------


## Sergard

> jaykore


Jason's logo looks so much better when it's spread over his whole chest instead of putting a smaller version in the middle like it is done in the comic.
I understand that Woods wants to show the whole logo for recognition value and to do so the vest is in the way. But I'd still prefer a bigger logo that's not always shown in full.

----------


## Sergard

zumaon





JH





t_undr_a

----------


## G-Potion

> 


Suddenly I'm interested in this AU.

----------


## Arsenal

I’ve always thought a Star Wars AU could be a lot of fun.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Suddenly I'm interested in this AU.


Surprisingly there is a fanfic with the Bat Boys being enrolled into Hogwarts. But they're not magic. Rather, they're there to stop and bring in the Gotham Rogues, while Harry, Ron, and Hermione are wondering if they're losing what sanity they have being around them.

I should point out, its only the second ever Harry Potter fanfic (crossover or not) I have ever followed.

----------


## Arsenal

Woods run as the artist of RHO ends soon, he just said he’s working on the last 4 pages now.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Woods run as the artist of RHO ends soon, he just said he’s working on the last 4 pages now.


Source

https://twitter.com/thatpetewoods/st...705918976?s=19


Good riddance.

Here's hoping next artist can do better or ideally, we get Dexter back.

----------


## Zaresh

> Surprisingly there is a fanfic with the Bat Boys being enrolled into Hogwarts. But they're not magic. Rather, they're there to stop and bring in the Gotham Rogues, while Harry, Ron, and Hermione are wondering if they're losing what sanity they have being around them.
> 
> I should point out, its only the second ever Harry Potter fanfic (crossover or not) I have ever followed.


There is a bunch of Hogwarts AU actually. It's an AU with a lot of following. But then, it's to be expected; Rowling's is a fictional universe with a ton of fanfics itself. What's the tittle of this one, btw?

----------


## Arsenal

> Source
> 
> https://twitter.com/thatpetewoods/st...705918976?s=19
> 
> 
> Good riddance.
> 
> Here's hoping next artist can do better or ideally, we get Dexter back.


I know his art was kind of rough in the beginning (especially when compared to Soy) but I think it’s gotten a lot better lately. Since Woods is leaving I wonder if that means Jason’s suit is gonna change again or remain the same.

Though if we have to lose Woods to get Soy or Rockafort back you won’t see me complaining.

----------


## Jackalope89

> There is a bunch of Hogwarts AU actually. It's an AU with a lot of following. But then, it's to be expected; Rowling's is a fictional universe with a ton of fanfics itself. What's the tittle of this one, btw?


Oh, I know there's a ton of HP fanfics. 2nd or Most popular one out there, crossover or not. The only other one I ever followed was a one shot between Harry Potter and Saints Row.

Anyway, here's the link to the first chapter.
https://archiveofourown.org/works/18...pters/43939489

----------


## Zaresh

> Oh, I know there's a ton of HP fanfics. 2nd or Most popular one out there, crossover or not. The only other one I ever followed was a one shot between Harry Potter and Saints Row.
> 
> Anyway, here's the link to the first chapter.
> https://archiveofourown.org/works/18...pters/43939489


Thanks a bunch  :Cool: .

----------


## Aahz

https://www.deviantart.com/phil-cho/...sion-800246194

----------


## Jackalope89

Ah, Red X. One of two foes the Teen Titans never did catch (Slade being the other, despite dying). And yes, I am on board with him being Jason.

----------


## Jackalope89

I don't know if Artemis is younger than Donna, but I'm not complaining.

----------


## Sergard

fishtre






zumaon

----------


## Sergard

fishtre










Jason Fabok said yesterday on Twitter: "_Working on the pencils for the covers to Batman: Three Jokers. I've redrawn these covers 2 or 3 times each. They need to "feel" right. I want covers that will jump out at you on the shelf and beg you to take a look. Hopefully we will be able to reveal all three together soon._"

And when asked how far along he is drawing, Fabok answered "_halfway, which means close to a release date. These pages are taking me twice as long as any other project Ive done. No cutting corners. If a scene asks me to draw 20 cops...Im drawing them, in all panels...every detail. I want to give the readers my everything._"

----------


## Sergard

> I don't know if Artemis is younger than Donna, but I'm not complaining.





Jason seems to have a preference for chit-chatting with Amazons in the snow.

----------


## Aahz

> I don't know if Artemis is younger than Donna, but I'm not complaining.


In the current continuity Donna is clay golem, that and was from my under standing created quite recently. So Artemis would be older.

Pre Flashpoint Donna was the same age as Dick, but I have no idea how old Artemis was. But probably at least around the same age.

----------


## Sergard

DC has changed the title of the last story arc from "Underlife" to "Requiem for an archer"?
(And I'm a little sad that they didn't keep Putri's variant as a volume cover.)

----------


## Arsenal

I like this cover more than the previous one, but still think the variant to issue #27 would of been the best choice of the bunch.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> DC has changed the title of the last story arc from "Underlife" to "Requiem for an archer"?
> (And I'm a little sad that they didn't keep Putri's variant as a volume cover.)


That's just the name of the volume,  those don't always use the titles of the storylines. Vol 4 for example, is titled "Good Night Gotham"

----------


## Sergard

Event Leviathan #2 Variant by Jason Fabok

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

If nothing else, the more they use Jason front and center of promotional materials, the less likely for him actually being Leviathan.

Unless of course, that Bendis is really that bad of a writer.

----------


## JasonTodd428

> If nothing else, the more they use Jason front and center of promotional materials, the less likely for him actually being Leviathan.
> 
> Unless of course, that Bendis is really that bad of a writer.


Bendis has a terrible tendency toward writing characters that are not the focus of his work out of character so I wouldn't bank on Leviathan not being Jason. Seems like exactly the kind of thing Bendis would do.

----------


## gohei_

So yeah, I know I'm a bit behind but I just read through the first 4 volumes of this run over the last couple of days, and wanted to share some thoughts.

First off, I never in my life thought I would ever care for someone like Bizarro, but he was so well-written in this so you just can't not like the guy. "Bizarro, cloned on a wednesday. Kick butt on friday" is one of the best lines I've read in a long time  :Cool:  Also, the scene where he is about to murder all those henchmen by gassing them I was like "Holy shit, is this really happening? He's truly committed to this cause"
I was hoping though that someone could explain to me why after becoming smart, he sometimes wears his "S" the right way and sometimes the reverse way?

Artemis was also really cool and I can't wait to find out what happened to her and Bizarro when they disappeared together with the flying HQ.
It was pretty obvious from the start that something was gonna happen between her and Jason so I really appreciate the fact that they waited 20+ issues until actually getting to it instead of just rushing it.

I'm already pretty familiar with Jason Todd as a character (I really like Death in the family and Under The Red Hood is one of my fave DC movies). I haven't read the N52 run though and according to what I've read about it I am in no hurry to do so. I really like how he is written here (they all are), as opposed to that Morrison Batman & Robin title, for example.

All in all, a really entertaining and well-written run with great art. I usually don't pick up single issues so I will most likely wait for the next trade to come out until I continue reading.

----------


## Sergard

> So yeah, I know I'm a bit behind but I just read through the first 4 volumes of this run over the last couple of days, and wanted to share some thoughts.
> 
> First off, I never in my life thought I would ever care for someone like Bizarro, but he was so well-written in this so you just can't not like the guy. "Bizarro, cloned on a wednesday. Kick butt on friday" is one of the best lines I've read in a long time  Also, the scene where he is about to murder all those henchmen by gassing them I was like "Holy shit, is this really happening? He's truly committed to this cause"
> I was hoping though that someone could explain to me why after becoming smart, he sometimes wears his "S" the right way and sometimes the reverse way?


You are not the only one. When RHatO Rebirth was announced, I was more than a little skeptical about Bizarro. The information that I had found about Bizarro made his character look very goofy. And I personally prefer darker and more serious stories with a lot of emotion and just the right amount of humor here and there. But in the end Bizarro turned out to be a great character. I'm glad that RHatO has its own Bizarro and not the Bizarro from Bizarro World.

I love that line from the Grundy fight too. It's fun but also shows Bizarro's determination to protect his little family of outlaws while said family is worried about Bizarro's declining health. So much emotion in one scene. I love it.

I didn't notice the "S" thing, could be because of different artists, or something metaphorical when smart Bizarro is in fear of turning back into his old self. I'll reread the Bizarro Reborn arc later.




> Artemis was also really cool and I can't wait to find out what happened to her and Bizarro when they disappeared together with the flying HQ.
> It was pretty obvious from the start that something was gonna happen between her and Jason so I really appreciate the fact that they waited 20+ issues until actually getting to it instead of just rushing it.


I would have been pretty mad if Artemis had been immediately turned into Jason's new love interest. I definitely preferred Jason's and Artemis' platonic friendship for a long time. I'm not a fan of that mentality that a guy and a woman on the same team need to fall in love with each other. But the idea of Artemis and Jason grew on me. So I'm glad that it needed 25 issues until Jason finally got his kiss.





> I'm already pretty familiar with Jason Todd as a character (I really like Death in the family and Under The Red Hood is one of my fave DC movies). I haven't read the N52 run though and according to what I've read about it I am in no hurry to do so. I really like how he is written here (they all are), as opposed to that Morrison Batman & Robin title, for example.
> 
> All in all, a really entertaining and well-written run with great art. I usually don't pick up single issues so I will most likely wait for the next trade to come out until I continue reading.


The current story arc has some recurring side characters from the New52 arc. It would probably be an advantage if you knew some stuff from the old run. So maybe keep that in mind when you read Red Hood: Outlaw Vol 2 (if DC does not change the title again).

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Oh yeah, listings for Mattel's Red Hood appeared on BBTS

https://toynewsi.com/news.php?itemid...edium=facebook

----------


## Sergard

> If nothing else, the more they use Jason front and center of promotional materials, the less likely for him actually being Leviathan.
> 
> Unless of course, that Bendis is really that bad of a writer.


I wonder if the variant looks similar to the Event Leviathan #1 standard cover on purpose - Batman in the front and the head of a red masked person in the background.





Jason's hair is really long on the variant. Interesting artistic choice of Fabok considering that not even his Jason design for the Three Jokers story has that kind of hair length. Reminds me more of Batman: Ninja Jason.



And here's some nice fanart of Suzie Su saving the day/Jason (source: zumaon).

----------


## Zaresh

> And here's some nice fanart of Suzie Su saving the day/Jason (source: zumaon).


Love at first sight. I love this piece.

----------


## G-Potion

> I wonder if the variant looks similar to the Event Leviathan #1 standard cover on purpose - Batman in the front and the head of a red masked person in the background.


You might be right. They look too much like a pair.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I wonder if the variant looks similar to the Event Leviathan #1 standard cover on purpose - Batman in the front and the head of a red masked person in the background.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jason's hair is really long on the variant. Interesting artistic choice of Fabok considering that not even his Jason design for the Three Jokers story has that kind of hair length. Reminds me more of Batman: Ninja Jason.
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting physics with that punch there. lol

But yeah, didn't see Suzie and her sisters end up working for Jason coming. Kind of like it. They get to work "legit" while also getting to beat up the occasional thug that drops by.

----------


## JoeZ

I asked the same question on the Nightwing's thread.
So, how old Jason is these days, post Rebirth?
18
19
20
21
(?)

----------


## Zaresh

> I asked the same question on the Nightwing's thread.
> So, how old Jason is these days, post Rebirth?
> 18
> 19
> 20
> 21
> (?)


Between 20 and 21, I think. More towards 21, probably.

----------


## JoeZ

> Between 20 and 21, I think. More towards 21, probably.


Yes, for me it's something like:

Bruce 35-36
Dick 22-24
Jason 20-21
Tim 16
Damian 13-14

----------


## Jackalope89

Bruce-54 (for 5 years straight, he refuses to accept his age)
Dick- 28
Jason- 23
Tim- 18
Damian- 13-14

----------


## Sergard

> Woods run as the artist of RHO ends soon, he just said hes working on the last 4 pages now.


(Sorry, I wanted to post the following already a few days ago but somehow I never found the time)

That was unexpected. But Woods seems to end on a high note, at least judging by the two panels he has posted in the last days. Especially the first one is so beautiful. I wonder what happens story-wise between the first and second panel posted on Twitter.









I don't think a lot of time passes since it's the same background. But Jason switches from being wary, even reaching for one of his guns, to a rather relaxed pose (kneeling?). He even seems a little baffled while the other person holds something above his head. I'm not even sure if the other person in the first and the second panel is the same one.

My first guess for the hidden person in the first panel was Penguin. The long black object could be his cane.
My second guess was Damian who holds his katana. RH:O could continue the story that TT Annual started.
But my favorite option would actually be Melissa, the FBI special agent that was introduced in #26, the first issue Woods drew. It would be kind of fitting if she'd also show up in his last.
It was also shown in RH:O #29 that Melissa uses a cane (at the moment).

Red Hood #29 Melissa.jpg


I have no idea about the second panel. Is that supposed to be a new character? I don't associate the design and chain with any character I know.

----------


## Zaresh

> (Sorry, I wanted to post the following already a few days ago but somehow I never found the time)
> 
> That was unexpected. But Woods seems to end on a high note, at least judging by the two panels he has posted in the last days. Especially the first one is so beautiful. I wonder what happens story-wise between the first and second panel posted on Twitter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Going by the hand, the chain and the iron bar (that's what I think the blurred thing in the first panel is), I think that, whoever they are, they're sitting in a swing, in some playground. And, whoever will be, they are wearing some fancy gloves.

----------


## Aahz

Finale Episode of season 2 of the Red Hood Fanseries. I really enjoyed it sofar, hope there will be a season 3.

Wondering why no ones discuses the series here.

----------


## Aahz

> Yes, for me it's something like:
> 
> Bruce 35-36
> Dick 22-24
> Jason 20-21
> Tim 16
> Damian 13-14


That seems to be what the writers a going for, even if it makes on sense for Jason to be that much older than Tim and so close in age to Dick, and to for Tim beeing that close in age to Damian.

Technically it should be (based on pre flashpoint) either be something like :

Bruce 39
Dick 25
Jason 18
Tim 17
Damian 10

or if we really have Damian aged up to 13:

Bruce 42
Dick 28
Jason 21
Tim 20
Damian 13

----------


## Aahz

> 


Whats interesting is that the guns were so far not part of Jason's new costume.

----------


## Sergard

> Going by the hand, the chain and the iron bar (that's what I think the blurred thing in the first panel is), I think that, whoever they are, they're sitting in a swing, in some playground. And, whoever will be, they are wearing some fancy gloves.


That's a creative point of view. I like that. It also explains the positioning of the stranger's arm in the second panel while Jason is kneeling in front of him/her.




> Wondering why no ones discuses the series here.


I'm really bad at watching any kind of series. Normally I give up after a few episodes, so I don't even start watching most  series nowadays.

----------


## Sergard

MOG





Olifux






limechime

----------


## Sergard

RedRidingHood





DAM_ATM_jason






4yottsu

----------


## Aahz

> I'm really bad at watching any kind of series. Normally I give up after a few episodes, so I don't even start watching most  series nowadays.


It's a pretty fun series. and I thing they get the characters (Jason, Tim and Damian) pretty well.

In the second season they have Jason travel the multiverse trying find a way back to his own earth to rescue Damian and Tim from the Court of Owls. And in comparison to season 1, I think stepped their game quite a lot.

----------


## Sergard

zumaon

----------


## gohei_

> You are not the only one. When RHatO Rebirth was announced, I was more than a little skeptical about Bizarro. The information that I had found about Bizarro made his character look very goofy. And I personally prefer darker and more serious stories with a lot of emotion and just the right amount of humor here and there. But in the end Bizarro turned out to be a great character. I'm glad that RHatO has *its own Bizarro and not the Bizarro from Bizarro World.*
> 
> I love that line from the Grundy fight too. It's fun but also shows Bizarro's determination to protect his little family of outlaws while said family is worried about Bizarro's declining health. So much emotion in one scene. I love it.
> 
> I didn't notice the "S" thing, could be because of different artists, or something metaphorical when smart Bizarro is in fear of turning back into his old self. I'll reread the Bizarro Reborn arc later.
> 
> 
> I would have been pretty mad if Artemis had been immediately turned into Jason's new love interest. I definitely preferred Jason's and Artemis' platonic friendship for a long time. I'm not a fan of that mentality that a guy and a woman on the same team need to fall in love with each other. But the idea of Artemis and Jason grew on me. So I'm glad that it needed 25 issues until Jason finally got his kiss.
> 
> ...


I'm honestly not very knowledgeable when it comes to Bizarro from the comics or otherwise. I know what he is but my only real exposure to him prior to this was from Smallville.

Good to know, if something comes up I will know to find whatever issues from the N52 that gives me some backstory, without having to go through the entire run.


In other news, I just saw that Curran Walters wants to play Jason in  the new Batman movie. Honestly I would be okay with that because I really liked his portrayal in Titans. A bit violent yes, but still pretty good.

----------


## Arsenal

> I'm honestly not very knowledgeable when it comes to Bizarro from the comics or otherwise. I know what he is but my only real exposure to him prior to this was from Smallville.
> 
> Good to know, if something comes up I will know to find whatever issues from the N52 that gives me some backstory, without having to go through the entire run.
> 
> 
> In other news, I just saw that Curran Walters wants to play Jason in  the new Batman movie. Honestly I would be okay with that because I really liked his portrayal in Titans. A bit violent yes, but still pretty good.


Honestly, you’ll probably only need the first Volume of the New 52 RHATO run.

----------


## Sergard

Little fancomic by evinist. Basically Bruce has turned into Pikachu and the Robins try to understand what Pikachu Bruce is saying. I only post the two pages with Jason (page 5 and page 6) because the first four pages have some Detective Pikachu spoilers.

----------


## Arsenal

Decided to read some old post Crisis/Pre FP Red Hood stuff and I forgot how bad some of it was, especially his later appearances.

----------


## Sergard

> Decided to read some old post Crisis/Pre FP Red Hood stuff and I forgot how bad some of it was, especially his later appearances.


I think I could rant for hours about how Jason was editorially mistreated after Batman: Under the Hood, especially when compared to Dick, Tim and Damian.
Looking on the bright side: There isn't much to catch up for new fans. Basically everything between BUtH and New52 can be ignored. Countdown is also interesting, but Donna, Kyle and Jason can't remember their little adventure together. So it's not necessary to know the story for the current universe. And even then Rebirth is an even better starting point than New52, but that's just my own opinion because I adore Artemis and Bizarro.

----------


## Restingvoice

> I think I could rant for hours about how Jason was editorially mistreated after Batman: Under the Hood, especially when compared to Dick, Tim and Damian.
> Looking on the bright side: There isn't much to catch up for new fans. Basically everything between BUtH and New52 can be ignored. Countdown is also interesting, but Donna, Kyle and Jason can't remember their little adventure together. So it's not necessary to know the story for the current universe. And even then Rebirth is an even better starting point than New52, but that's just my own opinion because I adore Artemis and Bizarro.


It's definitely a better starting point. Where Rebirth Jason start as someone who fights the Gotham underworld, his origin recap, and the book's visual style fits better with the idea of Jason both in fandom and as established by Under The Red Hood.

New 52 Red Hood is more like Titans. You got sci-fi, bros being bros, aliens, outer space adventures, demons, it's too... out there compared to how Under The Red Hood defined Jason, and that's before they remade Jason's origin into something outrageous. 

It's not what I expected a Jason Todd story goes compared to the image I have about him from pop culture osmosis. Even with the addition of superpowered characters that New 52 Outlaws also have, The Rebirth version fits that tone better.

----------


## Aahz

> I think I could rant for hours about how Jason was editorially mistreated after Batman: Under the Hood, especially when compared to Dick, Tim and Damian.
> Looking on the bright side: There isn't much to catch up for new fans. Basically everything between BUtH and New52 can be ignored. Countdown is also interesting, but Donna, Kyle and Jason can't remember their little adventure together. So it's not necessary to know the story for the current universe. And even then Rebirth is an even better starting point than New52, but that's just my own opinion because I adore Artemis and Bizarro.


Appart from UtRH the only stuuff worth reading from pre flashpoint are imo, his guest appearances in Green Arrow and Outlaws (even if the later is pretty short), Lost Days and to a degree Count Down.

Count Down is a pretty crappy story (and superlong) but it has few nice moments with Jason, even if the best stuff is probably the first few issues.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Appart from UtRH the only stuuff worth reading from pre flashpoint are imo, his guest appearances in Green Arrow and Outlaws (even if the later is pretty short), Lost Days and to a degree Count Down.
> 
> Count Down is a pretty crappy story (and superlong) but it has few nice moments with Jason, even if the best stuff is probably the first few issues.


Him and Donna talking cordially was pretty good. Both talking about how they died and came back, plus the two became friends back in NTT. So, Jason isn't really hostile to her. Especially compared to the Bats at the time.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I mean, Rebirth Jason wouldn't exist without N52 Jason and DC You Jason. Luckily for us, he has been one of the few characters in the DCU to have a consistent development over the years that have stuck. N52 took UtRH as starting point so it makes more sense to go from there to N52 than going into Rebirth.

----------


## Arsenal

> I mean, Rebirth Jason wouldn't exist without N52 Jason and DC You Jason. Luckily for us, he has been one of the few characters in the DCU to have a consistent development over the years that have stuck. N52 took UtRH as starting point so it makes more sense to go from there to N52 than going into Rebirth.


Especially since his relationship with Bruce is in a completely different place in the beginning of Rebirth than it was at the end of UTH so New 52/DC You helps ease that transition.

----------


## Sergard

Dexter Soy has posted some interesting Batman design (part 1 and part 2) on Twitter. It's probably Bruce Wayne, but I still feel it's a little Red Hood inspired.

Not a fan of the chin lamp and the teeth, but I like that the logo was moved from the chest to the face and that the mouth is covered. Overall, the design looks pretty unique.

----------


## Sergard

Paz




Paz




Paz




*spoilers:*
I miss Slade. Why are so many characters that I like dying left and right?
*end of spoilers*

----------


## G-Potion

> Paz


Bottom one looks hilariously OOC it's awesome.

----------


## Sergard

More Slade Wilson and Arkham Knight Jason Todd by Paz:

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

May numbers are out

> 117. RED HOOD OUTLAW #34 (DC) - 18,984 [117]

----------


## Zaresh

> May numbers are out
> 
> > 117. RED HOOD OUTLAW #34 (DC) - 18,984 [117]


Well, back to the usual. April was a fluke, I guess.

----------


## Sergard

Virtual Mockingbird




Virtual Mockingbird




jbw_8885

----------


## Sergard

rmke_cho





zumaon





pinotyaki

----------


## Sergard

Paz





Paz

----------


## Sergard

inkydandy

----------


## Jackalope89

Tim, Tim, Tim. Jason would probably spike it when he refills it.

----------


## Sergard

Dexter Soy: "Ill be at the North Texas Comic Show this month. Ill be signing and sketching at the @bigtimecollectiobles booth!"

----------


## Sergard

nockuth





Vorimar

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Since it came out in the sales thread, I'm going to compile sales numbers for the previous volumes

Red Hood And The Outlaws	1*	$2.99	DC	50,501
Red Hood And The Outlaws	2*	$2.99	DC	53,444
Red Hood And The Outlaws	3*	$2.99	DC	45,126
Red Hood And The Outlaws	4*	$2.99	DC	39,850
Red Hood And The Outlaws	5*	$2.99	DC	38,304
Red Hood And The Outlaws	6*	$2.99	DC	35,908
Red Hood And The Outlaws	7*	$2.99	DC	34,767
Red Hood And The Outlaws	8*	$2.99	DC	34,177
Red Hood And The Outlaws	9	$2.99	DC	48,798 (NoTO tie-in)
Red Hood And The Outlaws	10	$2.99	DC	37,044
Red Hood And The Outlaws	11	$2.99	DC	35,820 (Rocafort's last issue)
Red Hood And The Outlaws	12	$2.99	DC	34,439 
Red Hood And The Outlaws	0	$2.99	DC	39,511 (Zero Month)
Red Hood And The Outlaws	14	$2.99	DC	37,710
Red Hood And The Outlaws	15	$2.99	DC	64,103 (DOTF Tie-In)
Red Hood and the Outlaws	16	$2.99	DC	59,621 (DOTF Tie-In)
Red Hood And The Outlaws	17	$2.99	DC	53,076 (DOTF Tie-In)
Red Hood And The Outlaws	18	$2.99	DC	37,731 

Tynion Run
Red Hood And The Outlaws	19	$2.99	DC	36,630
Red Hood And The Outlaws	20	$2.99	DC	34,542
RHATO Annual             	1	$4.99	DC	30,157
Red Hood and the Outlaws	21	$2.99	DC	32,416
Red Hood And The Outlaws	22	$2.99	DC	30,534
Red Hood and The Outlaws	23	$2.99	DC	28,821
B&R (Ras al Ghul)	        23.3	$3.99	DC	49,452 (Forever Evil Tie-in)
Red Hood and the Outlaws	24	$2.99	DC	27,128
Red Hood And The Outlaws	25	$3.99	DC	30,632 (Zero Year Tie-in)
Red Hood And The Outlaws	26	$2.99	DC	25,382
Red Hood and The Outlaws	27	$2.99	DC	24,813
Red Hood And The Outlaws	28	$2.99	DC	23,236

Will Pfeifer fill-ins

Red Hood and The Outlaws	29	$2.99	DC	22,316
Red Hood And The Outlaws	30	$2.99	DC	21,718
Red Hood And The Outlaws	31	$2.99	DC	21,257

Lobdell's Second Run

Red Hood and the Outlaws	32	$2.99	DC	33,081
Red Hood And The Outlaws	33	$2.99	DC	20,669
Red Hood And The Outlaws	34	$2.99	DC	20,069
RHATO Futures End	        1	$3.99	DC	48,002 (Future's End Tie-in)
Red Hood and the Outlaws	35	$2.99	DC	19,837
Red Hood and the Outlaws	36	$2.99	DC	19,245
Red Hood and the Outlaws	37	$2.99	DC	18,723
RHATO         Annual    	2	$4.99	DC	16,912
Red Hood and the Outlaws	38	$2.99	DC	18,014
Red Hood And The Outlaws	39	$2.99	DC	17,270
Red Hood and the Outlaws	40	$2.99	DC	17,110

For completions' sake, here are the numbers for the Convergence issues, finishing the story of Pre N52 Jason

Convergence Batman & Robin	1	$3.99	DC	56,720
Convergence Batman & Robin	2	$3.99	DC	50,271

Red Hood/Arsenal

Red Hood Arsenal	1*	$2.99	DC	40,071
Red Hood Arsenal	2	$2.99	DC	26,829
Red Hood Arsenal	3	$2.99	DC	23,841
Red Hood Arsenal	4	$2.99	DC	22,113
Red Hood Arsenal	5	$2.99	DC	21,025
Red Hood Arsenal	6	$2.99	DC	19,857
Red Hood Arsenal	7	$2.99	DC	25,789 (Javi Fernandez first issue as Artist and Robin War Tie-in)
Red Hood Arsenal	8	$2.99	DC	22,900
Red Hood Arsenal	9	$2.99	DC	22,341
Red Hood Arsenal	10	$2.99	DC	17,707 (Dexter Soy first team up with Lobdell)
Red Hood Arsenal	11	$2.99	DC	19,711
Red Hood Arsenal	12	$2.99	DC	16,402
Red Hood Arsenal	13	$2.99	DC	16,389

The final two issues of RH/A have been the lowest selling issues starring Jason so far. I'm guessing the news about Rebirth and losing Soy as artist were big factors for that.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Also, with the news of Doomsday Clock becoming a non canon, self contained story, I'm guessing the same will happen to Three Jokers.

----------


## Darkcrusade25

> Also, with the news of Doomsday Clock becoming a non canon, self contained story, I'm guessing the same will happen to Three Jokers.


Where did that news come from?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Where did that news come from?


https://www.newsarama.com/45553-scot...-for-them.html

----------


## Jackalope89

Wow. Johns being pushed even further out.

----------


## Darkcrusade25

> https://www.newsarama.com/45553-scot...-for-them.html


I can't seem to understand the language in that interview that states that DDC would be non canon

----------


## Arsenal

> Also, with the news of Doomsday Clock becoming a non canon, self contained story, I'm guessing the same will happen to Three Jokers.


Nearly all of the classic stories are at this point so as long as Jason has a good showing and the book itself is good, I don't really care if it's canon or not.

----------


## OBrianTallent

> Also, with the news of Doomsday Clock becoming a non canon, self contained story, I'm guessing the same will happen to Three Jokers.





> https://www.newsarama.com/45553-scot...-for-them.html


I didn't see where it was stated that Doomsday Clock was not canon.  Snyder even said he spoke with Johns about bringing the team back...so it seems that, while it might not have been part of Johns' original plan, they aren't exactly leaving him out of the loop either.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

They edited the interview. This is what it was originally posted





> >**Nrama**: So does this tie in to Doomsday Clock at all? Because we’ve seen the seeds of the Justice Society returning in Doomsday Clock.
> 
> >**Snyder**: Not really. I mean, Doomsday Clock really is its own wonderful, incredible story. The kind of light connection between them is just that, what Geoff and I talked about was because Doomsday Clock is kind of running at its own pace and in its own kind of continuity, what I didn’t want to do was bring the JSA back before he had a chance to reintroduce them as a concept in issue #10.
> 
> >I think that’s similar with other characters that he’s going to be using in Doomsday Clock as well.
> 
> >So there’s a nod to each other in that regard. I wanted him to be able to have the JSA as an idea, and have that first appearance in Doomsday Clock.
> 
> *>But in terms of the continuities linking up, Doomsday Clock is a very special and inspirational book. We’re all amazed, I think, at how good it is. **But its effects are relatively self-contained to itself.***

----------


## Darkcrusade25

> They edited the interview. This is what it was originally posted


WOW. They really hate fans huh. Rebirth was the reason they started making more money again. This just tells me that DDC will be ending on a great note tbh.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

RED HOOD: OUTLAW #38 
written by SCOTT LOBDELL
art by KENNETH ROCAFORT
cover by DAN MORA
variant cover by PHILIP TAN
This is the Year of the Villain, and Red Hood has been tasked by Lex Luthor with training the worst teens in the DC Universe to become the super-villains of tomorrow. But while these kids may think they’re the future of villainy, they’re about to learn they may already be doomed. Reiser is rampaging through a S.T.A.R. Labs facility, unleashed like never before. Can the Red Hood see DNA, Cloud Nine, Devour and the enigmatic Babe in Arms safely home, or is this one field trip no one should have gotten permission to go on? Plus, where in the world are Artemis and Bizarro now?
ON SALE 09.25.19
$3.99 US | 32 PAGES
FC | RATED T+
This issue will ship with two covers.
Please see the order form for details.

----------


## Sergard

So is Rocafort the new official RH:O artist now? I'm confused. He draws two issues in a row but there hasn't been any official announcement.
I'm glad that Artemis and Bizarro are mentioned. But nothing about Bunker, Wingman, the Su Sisters (and Dog) - I fear Jason is going to lose them all in #36 in some way or other.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> RED HOOD: OUTLAW #38 
> written by SCOTT LOBDELL
> art by KENNETH ROCAFORT
> cover by DAN MORA
> variant cover by PHILIP TAN
> This is the Year of the Villain, and Red Hood has been tasked by Lex Luthor with training the worst teens in the DC Universe to become the super-villains of tomorrow. But while these kids may think theyre the future of villainy, theyre about to learn they may already be doomed. Reiser is rampaging through a S.T.A.R. Labs facility, unleashed like never before. Can the Red Hood see DNA, Cloud Nine, Devour and the enigmatic Babe in Arms safely home, or is this one field trip no one should have gotten permission to go on? Plus, where in the world are Artemis and Bizarro now?
> ON SALE 09.25.19
> $3.99 US | 32 PAGES
> FC | RATED T+
> ...


Quoting for new page. 

Normally new artists aren't announced unless they're HUGE names or come along a shake up to the status quo. In Woods' case, it was the later.

----------


## Arsenal

Reiser reminds me of a smaller, slimmer Doomsday.

----------


## Zaresh

So I guess Art and Biz are going to be back for the last issues of this new arc. And it seems that Jasons charade with him pretending to train some villains isn't going to last long (well, them being villains, I mean). I guess Wingman and Bunker aren't mentioned because their soles are small, not because they don't show up (ay least, not in Wingman's case).

Rocafort in the book as a regular could be cool. His style fits the info we have for this arc so far. But it could be that he  works for just two issues.

----------


## Sergard

> Quoting for new page. 
> 
> Normally new artists aren't announced unless they're HUGE names or come along a shake up to the status quo. In Woods' case, it was the later.


But wouldn't Rocafort at least post something on Twitter/Instagram? He seems pretty silent about that matter.




On another note, my paranoia is strong again. Am I the only one who saw the variant cover of Event Leviathan #4 and immediately thought of the New52 Red Hood and the Outlaws #24 cover?

----------


## Arsenal

Based on the solicits for Batman/Superman, it’s possible Jason could make an appearance.

----------


## Zaresh

> But wouldn't Rocafort at least post something on Twitter/Instagram? He seems pretty silent about that matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On another note, my paranoia is strong again. Am I the only one who saw the variant cover of Event Leviathan #4 and immediately thought of the New52 Red Hood and the Outlaws #24 cover?


Nah, I think it's a coincidence. I mean, it's a pretty normal pose for an "evil" guy.
Btw, Oliver is there*. Does he have a big role in this event?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Reiser reminds me of a smaller, slimmer Doomsday.


Probably because that's what he is. 

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Reiser_(Prime_Earth)

----------


## Arsenal

Wonder what the new HQs gonna be once the Casino gigs over. 




> Nah, I think it's a coincidence. I mean, it's a pretty normal pose for an "evil" guy.
> Btw, Oliver is where. Does he have a big role in this event?


Yeah, Oliver is one of the main characters in the event.



> Probably because that's what he is. 
> 
> https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Reiser_(Prime_Earth)


Well ok then. That’s neat.

----------


## Jackalope89

> So is Rocafort the new official RH:O artist now? I'm confused. He draws two issues in a row but there hasn't been any official announcement.
> I'm glad that Artemis and Bizarro are mentioned. But nothing about Bunker, Wingman, the Su Sisters (and Dog) - I fear Jason is going to lose them all in #36 in some way or other.


If Jason looses Dog, we riot!

----------


## RedBird

Dexter Soy

----------


## Aahz

With Lobdell bringing Bunker and Doomed back I'm wondering if he will bring also Skitter back.

----------


## Sergard

_hian_nm






> Nah, I think it's a coincidence. I mean, it's a pretty normal pose for an "evil" guy.
> Btw, Oliver is there*. Does he have a big role in this event?


Yeah, I just noticed that Batman/Superman #2 also has a similar cover.






> Based on the solicits for Batman/Superman, it’s possible Jason could make an appearance.


You mean because of that line?




> Their first two guesses: *someone very close to Batman* and the one hero that would make failure nearly impossible—Superman himself!


Maybe. But Jason isn't that close to Batman anymore. Someone like Alfred, Commissioner Gordon, Damian or Catwoman would be a more obvious choice.







> Probably because that's what he is. 
> 
> https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Reiser_(Prime_Earth)


Good to know. I thought these are all new characters. But I'm cool with Lobdell bringing already existing characters back. Especially since he created them himself, so they won't be written out of character. Now I really hope that Bunker is still around. He and Reiser already know each other, right?

----------


## Arsenal

That’s true, but based on how the characters close to Bruce have behaved lately Jason should be on the top of the list for potential suspects.

I’m not saying that he will make an appearance, just that’s its a possibility.

----------


## Sergard

> Thats true, but based on how the characters close to Bruce have behaved lately Jason should be on the top of the list for potential suspects.
> 
> Im not saying that he will make an appearance, just thats its a possibility.


I'm not denying any possibility. I'm too confused about Batman Who Laughs' six secret sleepers right now to argue anything.
I thought that the six sleepers are characters from the main continuity who don't know at the moment that they are controlled by Batman Who Laughs.

But looking at the preview of Batman/Superman #1 and the solicitation of #2 with evil Shazam who's from the dark multiverse, I'm not sure anymore that any character from the main continuity will be used.
(And looking at the preview, Shazam doesn't fulfill the definition of a sleeper to begin with.)

----------


## Arsenal

> I'm not denying any possibility. I'm too confused about Batman Who Laughs' six secret sleepers right now to argue anything.
> I thought that the six sleepers are characters from the main continuity who don't know at the moment that they are controlled by Batman Who Laughs.
> 
> But looking at the preview of Batman/Superman #1 and the solicitation of #2 with evil Shazam who's from the dark multiverse, I'm not sure anymore that any character from the lmain continuity will be used.
> (And looking at the preview, Shazam doesn't fulfill the definition of a sleeper to begin with.)


I was under the impression that “Shazam” was one of BWL “Robins” and not the main DCU Shazam so I’m not sure if he’s supposed to be one of the Secret 6.

----------


## Sergard

> I was under the impression that Shazam was one of BWL Robins and not the main DCU Shazam so Im not sure if hes supposed to be one of the Secret 6.


Wait. I think I misread the preview. It says "Dark Multiverse-infected Shazam!". I thought of "Dark Multiverse Shazam", like a Billy Batson/Shazam from another universe. Now I'm even more confused.
So that is main continuity Shazam? Sorry for being off-topic.



On another - not-confusing - note. I found this cute fanart by pentapoda.

----------


## Sergard

(continuation of fanart)

----------


## Sergard

(last part of fanart)

----------


## Sergard

Bruno Iliadis

----------


## Sergard

hanamura/Deny Pratama

----------


## Arsenal

I do hope we get something like that for their inevitable reunion.

----------


## RedBird

fade-works



_Arkhamverse: Red Hood_

----------


## Ssstammerer

Jason Todd: Into the Red Hood-Verse.

Been waiting for Hiya Toys Injustice 2 Red Hood since 2017. Now, I've completed all Jason Todd action figures in 3.75"/1:18 scale.  :Cool: 

#JasonToddPH #RedHoodPH

----------


## Arsenal

Jason gets a little bit taller with every statue

----------


## Zaresh

> Jason Todd: Into the Red Hood-Verse.
> 
> Been waiting for Hiya Toys Injustice 2 Red Hood since 2017. Now, I've completed all Jason Todd action figures in 3.75"/1:18 scale. 
> 
> #JasonToddPH #RedHoodPH


Congrats on your collection  :Cool:

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Jason Todd: Into the Red Hood-Verse.
> 
> Been waiting for Hiya Toys Injustice 2 Red Hood since 2017. Now, I've completed all Jason Todd action figures in 3.75"/1:18 scale. 
> 
> #JasonToddPH #RedHoodPH


Oh, Hiya Toys' Red Hood is finally coming out? I've been waiting for it since March. 

I recognize the Multiverse AK Red Hood and the figurine from the UTRH Limited Edition but I'm drawing a blank with the Hush Jason and the Arkham Knight. What lines are they from?

----------


## Sergard

> Jason Todd: Into the Red Hood-Verse.
> 
> Been waiting for Hiya Toys Injustice 2 Red Hood since 2017. Now, I've completed all Jason Todd action figures in 3.75"/1:18 scale. 
> 
> #JasonToddPH #RedHoodPH


Nice collection  :Smile: 

I totally forgot how badass the Hush design is. Omitting the Robin symbol, this outfit could still work in the current comics - at least as some kind of special appearance in a one-issue-story.

I wonder if there will ever be a figure with Woods' design. The MK-inspired look could be an advantage.

----------


## Sergard

> I do hope we get something like that for their inevitable reunion.


I hope so too. I'm expecting a big squeezing hug similar to the one in #25 or on the fanart above - and Jason crying and hugging the others back.


On another note: found some fanart with Jason and Duke.

11thsense

----------


## Arsenal

On twitter Bendis said Hood is front & center of Event leviathan #2 & Woods (possibly?) teased that leviathan was teased in RH:O 35. He might’ve just been messing around though so take it for what you will.

----------


## G-Potion

> On twitter Bendis said Hood is front & center of Event leviathan #2 & Woods (possibly?) teased that leviathan was teased in RH:O 35. He might’ve just been messing around though so take it for what you will.


Huh it seems Bendis is well aware of the rumour and is amused about it.

----------


## Ssstammerer

> Oh, Hiya Toys' Red Hood is finally coming out? I've been waiting for it since March. 
> 
> I recognize the Multiverse AK Red Hood and the figurine from the UTRH Limited Edition but I'm drawing a blank with the Hush Jason and the Arkham Knight. What lines are they from?


It's not from UTRH. It's from Mattel's Batman Unlimited line. Gotham City Bane Battle. The Hush is from Mattel's DC Universe Infinite Heroes. The AK is from Multiverse as well.

----------


## Ssstammerer

> Nice collection 
> 
> I totally forgot how badass the Hush design is. Omitting the Robin symbol, this outfit could still work in the current comics - at least as some kind of special appearance in a one-issue-story.
> 
> I wonder if there will ever be a figure with Woods' design. The MK-inspired look could be an advantage.


Thanks!

Yeah, I hope so too. Or something similar. Woods' design can be translated well into toys.

----------


## Aahz

Injustice 2 Red Hood figure looks pretty good, and it the price seems also decent.

----------


## Sergard

> On twitter Bendis said Hood is front & center of Event leviathan #2 & Woods (possibly?) teased that leviathan was teased in RH:O 35. He mightve just been messing around though so take it for what you will.


I took screenshots of Bendis' tweet and Woods' comment.

Brian Michael Bendis Twitter part 1.jpg

Brian Michael Bendis Twitter part 2.jpg

The shading in Woods' panel looks a little different than in the final version.

Red Hood Outlaw #35 Leviathan.jpg

----------


## Sergard

fishtre

----------


## Aahz

https://m-alejandrita.tumblr.com/pos...ruce-bay-terry

----------


## Sergard

B.O.P





JustWaterfall

----------


## Sergard

Seems like it is Red Hood Movie rumor time again.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Not that I think is realistic, but I'd love for it to was true. Especially the part about being based on the First Outlaws.

----------


## Arsenal

Since we never really got to see it done properly in previous run, I wouldnt mind them taking a streamlined crack at the Untitled/Al Caste stuff in live action.

I dont think itll happen but Im (obviously) not against it either

----------


## kaimaciel

> Seems like it is Red Hood Movie rumor time again.


Don't do that, DC. Don't give me hope and then rip it away...

----------


## Sergard

> Not that I think is realistic, but I'd love for it to was true. Especially the part about being based on the First Outlaws.


That's the part that irritates me the most. Under the Hood would have been the obvious choice since the story is a classic and has a good length for a movie. RHatO is a long run. Would the movie simply pick the first arc or come up with a more original story?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> That's the part that irritates me the most. Under the Hood would have been the obvious choice since the story is a classic and has a good length for a movie. RHatO is a long run. Would the movie simply pick the first arc or come up with a more original story?


It makes sense though, UtRH would be a Batman movie with Jason on it, RHATO would be a Jason movie all the way through. As for the plot, adapting the first arc about the Untitled with some flashback to the team formation would be a good approach.

----------


## Arsenal

If y’all had to plan out a Red Hood or a RHATO trilogy, how would y’all do it?

----------


## Restingvoice

> If y’all had to plan out a Red Hood or a RHATO trilogy, how would y’all do it?


Second Chance - A Death in The Family - Origin that ends in death
Red Hood Lost Days - Under The Red Hood - focusing more on Jason's perspective
Red Hood and The Outlaws - Redemption

----------


## Jackalope89

> If y’all had to plan out a Red Hood or a RHATO trilogy, how would y’all do it?


UTRH to start with. Establish Jason and his nature and such with the rest of the Bats. 

The second one, I actually would NOT use the first group of Outlaws. Far too many people that are not hardcore comic book fans associate Starfire (at least) with Dick Grayson. Roy isn't as well known, aside from Arrow viewers. He could potentially work though. Instead, I would focus more on the Rebirth Outlaws, or some combination of characters otherwise associated with Jason (Duella, Rose Wilson, Kid Devil, etc). Maybe cover what he did prior to coming back to Gotham, by bringing in the All-Caste and such.

The final one, if the second one introduces the All Caste, perhaps does the Outlaws one. Where Jason, now more sure of himself, incidentally makes the Dark Trinity after Black Mask's rise to power.

----------


## Aahz

I have thought about a Robin trilogy for him.

That would go:
- Origin story
- then  the Cult (maybe with tying Blackfire to the Untitled) or alternatively either 10 Nights of the Beast or  a Dumpster Killer Diplomats Son mix (a story at the peak of his Robin career)
- a Killing Joke / Death of the Family mix (if we go with the Untitled you could have maybe Ras set Jason up to get him out of the way)

For Red Hood I'm not really sure how to do it.
Under The Red Hood and a Redemption story afterwards (maybe a mix of Resurection of Ras Al Ghul and the All Caste/untitled story)

But doing Lost Days before UtRH or or something after the redemption seems kind of lack lustre. Maybe one could do a Lost Days/All Caste traing mix as a prequel after UtRH.

----------


## Sergard

> I have thought about a Robin trilogy for him.
> 
> That would go:
> - Origin story
> - then  the Cult (maybe with tying Blackfire to the Untitled) or alternatively either 10 Nights of the Beast or  a Dumpster Killer Diplomats Son mix (a story at the peak of his Robin career)
> - a Killing Joke / Death of the Family mix (if we go with the Untitled you could have maybe Ras set Jason up to get him out of the way)
> 
> For Red Hood I'm not really sure how to do it.
> Under The Red Hood and a Redemption story afterwards (maybe a mix of Resurection of Ras Al Ghul and the All Caste/untitled story)
> ...


So the origin story is an own movie?

Batman: Cult would be nice. I like that story. DC should bring Blackfire back.

----------


## RedBird

jjmk-jjmk

----------


## RedBird

ggori6

----------


## RedBird

bluetost

----------


## G-Potion

Ha all three of these are so different yet equally cool.  :Big Grin:

----------


## Zaresh

> Ha all three of these are so different yet equally cool.


Agreed. Really nice art.

And I like Aahz's take on the idea, but more for a TV series, actually. And tieing  Blackfire to the Untitled could be a good, creative choice actually. Or even linked it to the Lazarus Pit as a supernatural concept, even.

----------


## Aahz

> And I like Aahz's take on the idea, but more for a TV series, actually.


Might be a better Idea. 

What I want to do is to connect the stories we got a little bit better to shows Jasons development as a Robin little better but sticking to the original stories but focussing more on the effect they had on Jason. You have him start out as a young fun (but slightly) troubled Robin who believes in Batman, then you bring in a villain (or villains) that show that Batmans code doesn't work, and finally you have what Joker does to Barbara in Killing Joke drive him finally over the edge.

And if one wants to bring in the Untitled and the Supernatural Stuff, Deacon Blackfire seems kind of fitting (as Supernatural imortal Badguy) and the Cult story is just way better then the Zero Year Tie in. 

And Resurrection of Ras Al Ghul to me also an way more epic story then Tynions Outlaws run. And it gives us also a better motivation for Talia to bring Jason back (she needs him as Weapon against Ras and the Untitled to protect Damian), and to bring in the rest of the Batfamily.

I would skip over the Outlaws, since bringing is all the characters from other "families" would be to much of a mess.

And I guess my take would have probably still a lot of focus on Batman and the rest of the Batfamily.

Unfortunately I suck a creative writing.

----------


## Sergard

Jason Fabok has posted another panel of Three Jokers. This time it's the batmobile. But it's also interesting to read the comment section. Even if so far there isn't any new information about the comic. Jason Fabok still loves drawing Three Jokers, still no official release date, only a reluctant "Maybe this year?".

----------


## Zaresh

You could add Nocturna and Ma Gunn's story as fuel for his issues about family, and parental responsibility in contrast with Bruce, adding more drama, too. It all honesty, Jason is a hell of a mine if you want to write a lengthy series about him from start to end. He just needs a few tweeks and a creative hand to unify his story.

----------


## Zaresh

> Jason Fabok has posted another panel of Three Jokers. This time it's the batmobile. But it's also interesting to read the comment section. Even if so far there isn't any new information about the comic. Jason Fabok still loves drawing Three Jokers, still no official release date, only a reluctant "Maybe this year?".


That's a lot of detail put in what seems to be a mere panel showing some average action. The book is going to look gorgeous.

----------


## Sergard

> That's a lot of detail put in what seems to be a mere panel showing some average action. The book is going to look gorgeous.


In one of the comments Fabok writes




> for that car, I had my brother (who is a character model artist for Ubisoft) create a 3d model of the car so I can see if from all angles.


Fabok is really giving his best. I hope the writing will match the art.

----------


## Zaresh

> In one of the comments Fabok writes
> 
> 
> 
> Fabok is really giving his best. I hope the writing will match the art.


Heh, interesting. I like that it's not traced work, it's just a piece of work made with proper reference. And it shows: the picture has a natural feel to it.

----------


## Sergard

zumaon



Roy is still a popular character among artists that normally draw a lot of Red Hood artwork.



zumaon





Nice to see that there's still new Batman Ninja fan artwork from time to time.

----------


## Arsenal

It's surprising how often the white stripe pops up in fan art considering it only appeared like 3 times in the comics.

----------


## Jackalope89

> It's surprising how often the white stripe pops up in fan art considering it only appeared like 3 times in the comics.


Its even more prominent in fanfics. Almost every single one that has Jason in a major role mentions the white stripe.

----------


## Sergard

> Little fancomic by evinist. Basically Bruce has turned into Pikachu and the Robins try to understand what Pikachu Bruce is saying. I only post the two pages with Jason (page 5 and page 6) because the first four pages have some Detective Pikachu spoilers.


The story continues: page 7

----------


## Sergard

zumaon

----------


## Jackalope89

> zumaon


I can see Biz being okay with this. But being even more okay if its a bunch of little kids doing that.

----------


## Sergard

Clot





Sammie Zhou (Tim and Jason age-reversed)

----------


## Sergard

Jason Fabok has posted the outlines of Event Leviathan #2 Variant Cover.




And as a friendly reminder, the finished cover colored by Brad Anderson.

----------


## Sergard

Inhyuk Lee has posted the Midtown Comics exclusive DCeased #3 Variant on Twitter. Here's all three variants so far together.

----------


## Zaresh

> Inhyuk Lee has posted the Midtown Comics exclusive DCeased #3 Variant on Twitter. Here's all three variants so far together.


I find it funny, that Jason has such a high spot in the variants for DCeased. One would guess that his place would be better assigned to some big name like Flash or Green Lantern or Wonder Woman and others like them. He is, after all, just a high ranked C lister. But I guess his story is so juicy one can't be helped but to use him in these sweet and cool variants.

----------


## Restingvoice

> I find it funny, that Jason has such a high spot in the variants for DCeased. One would guess that his place would be better assigned to some big name like Flash or Green Lantern or Wonder Woman and others like them. He is, after all, just a high ranked C lister. But I guess his story is so juicy one can't be helped but to use him in these sweet and cool variants.


Death of Superman, A Death in The Family, and... Endgame?
No, if anything both Jason and Barry should be there and Batman's not. Clark, Jason, and Barry had the most famous deaths. They can include Batman in reference to Final Crisis, but I don't think Endgame if that is it, was as popular.

----------


## Zaresh

> Death of Superman, A Death in The Family, and... Endgame?
> No, if anything both Jason and Barry should be there and Batman's not. Clark, Jason, and Barry had the most famous deaths. They can include Batman in reference to Final Crisis, but I don't think Endgame if that is it, was as popular.


At first I thought they were doing that, nodding famous death stories. But eh, not  anymore. In any case, I still think they could've used some other higher profiled character, like Flash or Green Lantern, that  both have memorable stories involving death as a theme. Heck, even Blue Beetle has one. I get that Jason's death is probably the most famous story after Clark's, but then, there you have Batman. So it must be a series involving big characters instead. Which is why I feel that Jason is a weird choice. Even if it's really a no brainer, no pun intended. It really doesn't matter but "shrugs".

(Edit: I'm happy that they decided to include him).

----------


## Arsenal

It's a good look for Jason, even if he's (yet) to be in the book, so I'm all for it.

----------


## Jackalope89

Oddly enough, it looks like Jason is the most "coherent" of them in wielding a crowbar at Joker.

----------


## G-Potion

Do we know for sure who are going to be featured in those books?

----------


## Jackalope89

> Do we know for sure who are going to be featured in those books?


Jason pulls out a Thriller dance number with a bunch of zombies, scaring Damian and Jon with how "80s" it is. Dick sings the Monster Mash, and Tim raids the local coffee shop.

----------


## Aahz

https://www.deviantart.com/jasontodd...boys-802344574

----------


## Jackalope89

> https://www.deviantart.com/jasontodd...boys-802344574


Listen to the man that makes death jokes and adopts Kryptonian clones!

----------


## Arsenal

Random thought: Have we already considered the possibility that Wingman’s yet to be named group is actually leviathan?

----------


## Jackalope89

> Random thought: Have we already considered the possibility that Wingman’s yet to be named group is actually leviathan?


Maybe? I don't know. Dog is probably Leviathan off panel.

----------


## Sergard

> Random thought: Have we already considered the possibility that Wingmans yet to be named group is actually leviathan?


Do you mean Talia's Leviathan or the group around the new character Leviathan?
I'm still too confused about the whole Event Leviathan stuff to associate anything with it.

----------


## Zaresh

> Random thought: Have we already considered the possibility that Wingman’s yet to be named group is actually leviathan?


Huh, that would actually sort of connect his Wingman ID with Leviatan. Even if Jason was with Bruce when he was wearing that suit during that story arc. Good one, @Arsenal.

----------


## Sergard

Other question: Should we change the schedule of the Re-read Thread? Any suggestions?

----------


## Zaresh

I'm starting my summer job next week, and will also finish some project, so I'll be able to return to the reading group regularly soon. I'll go with whatever you decide in the end  :Smile: .

----------


## Jackalope89

> Do you mean Talia's Leviathan or the group around the new character Leviathan?
> I'm still too confused about the whole Event Leviathan stuff to associate anything with it.


I guess someone took over Talia's organization.

----------


## Arsenal

> Do you mean Talia's Leviathan or the group around the new character Leviathan?
> I'm still too confused about the whole Event Leviathan stuff to associate anything with it.


Event: Leviathan’s Leviathan.

----------


## Sergard

Kenneth Rocafort




> Lobafort !!! 😎 Scott Lobdell (writer) and me (Kenneth Rocafort / art) on RED HOOD... issues 37 to 39 @ScottyLobdell @DCComics




(It's actually a little clip but I don't know how to embed Twitter videos here.)

----------


## G-Potion

> Kenneth Rocafort
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (It's actually a little clip but I don't know how to embed Twitter videos here.)


Wow I really like how this costume looks under Rocafort's pencil so far. Only 3 issues though. I'm dying to know who's gonna take over.

----------


## J. D. Guy

This thread moves so fast!




> Reiser reminds me of a smaller, slimmer Doomsday.


Oh, snap Reiser's back! I loved Lobdell's _Doomed_! Lobdell was really going for the long-haul and playing the long game with that book. It sucked that it ended so abruptly and with so much of the groundwork that was laid down unexplored and un-flourished.

He really is bringing back some of everyone! Would be nice if there was a way he could stealth progress Reiser's story, but that's me being greedy, I admit.

But Reiser's one of the new villain trainees? Why he made Reiser evil?! TT__TT

(I'm being so lazy now, and just still so behind...)




> With Lobdell bringing Bunker and Doomed back I'm wondering if he will bring also Skitter back.


That would be cool! She needs some love, and a reappearance would be nice to give her just that. It's still surreal that Bunker's back and that Doomed is actually being used again ('tho why he a villain Lobdell; I wish someone could ask him that on social media for me).

Also, since Reiser has a chance, I would love to see his best friend and (old?) roommate Roman (aka, Alpha Centurion, who should still be possessing him) return, too. (Roman's story was also cut short and never fully realized...)




> Good to know. I thought these are all new characters. But I'm cool with Lobdell bringing already existing characters back. Especially since he created them himself, so they won't be written out of character. Now I really hope that Bunker is still around. He and Reiser already know each other, right?



I'm happy Lobdell is bringing them back, too. Although in Reiser's case, it's weird he's with a group of youngsters who are being trained to be new villains... That feels pretty out of character for how Lobdell wrote him in his own book. Plus, by the 5th/6th issue, he was starting to gain control of his powers and form, so to see he's regressed (seemingly, based on the solicitations) is kinda sad.

And Bunker and Doomed should know each other, or at least should know _of_ each other. Reiser wasn't on the team for too long before returning to Metropolis, but they should remember each other.

----------


## kaimaciel

YES! He looks great!

----------


## Zaresh

@D J. Guy (MInd if I go with @Guy, for short?), don't worry. I wouldn't stress much about Reiser (or any other of them), not yet in any case. It seems to me that solicits tend to be overdramatic and lie a little bit; and besides, Lobdell could soft-rebooting the character a little bit for reintroduction.

I still think he's going to try some Thuderbolts-esque group with this, but with the teens being strainght antagonistic and gray. I don't know why, but it gives me that vibe.

----------


## JasonTodd428

> @D J. Guy (MInd if I go with @Guy, for short?), don't worry. I wouldn't stress much about Reiser (or any other of them), not yet in any case. It seems to me that solicits tend to be overdramatic and lie a little bit; and besides, Lobdell could soft-rebooting the character a little bit for reintroduction.
> 
> I still think he's going to try some Thuderbolts-esque group with this, but with the teens being strainght antagonistic and gray. I don't know why, but it gives me that vibe.


I agree. I think the teens here are going to be more gray and antagonistic rather than straight up evil. Sort of like Jason himself. I'm getting a "Jason trains these guys to be more than villains" vibe from this in all honesty. It feels very much like when Deathstroke asked Dick to train Rose back in the day. I could see Jason stealth teaching them to be, if not heroes, then at least something closer to anti-heroes rather than a straight up villains. We have to remember that Jason doesn't ordinarily care for villains and other baddies either and has on various occasions wanted them dead. I'm guessing he's planning to undermine things from the inside and this is just a way for him to get closer to his goal.

Edit: I'm also very glad to see Reiser again. I loved Doomed and was sad when it was cancelled. I'm with JD in that I hope this is a way to  push his story along as well although I'm not expecting it.

----------


## Arsenal

I’d b shocked if Jason doesn’t have some kind of hidden objective by agreeing to train the new kids, be it turn them into anti-heroes, get them somewhere safe or planning to turn them against the forces of Doom.

----------


## Sergard

Maybe Reiser was negatively  influenced by the collapse of the source wall, so that he loses control of his powers more often.
The same is maybe true for Bunker's new black bricks - could be a positive power-up.
All in all I agree with the others. Those kids don't look like villains. They maybe look a little rough but they also have to protect a little baby. And Jason doesn't look like the nice guy from next door in his MK outfit.

----------


## Sergard

> I'm starting my summer job next week, and will also finish some project, so I'll be able to return to the reading group regularly soon. I'll go with whatever you decide in the end .


I put the thread on hiatus, at least for a week. End of June is a little stressful for me. But I'd like to continue in July. And maybe until then we have found a better schedule.



And on another note: I've read "The Back-up" (part of Batman Annual #12) yesterday. It's an eight-page story about Jason's school life.
I didn't know that Jason had friends at school (Jason calls them friends in other panels). Were those three ever mentioned in other stories?
And it seems like Jason would have liked to join drama club but didn't because Robin was more important.

Batman Annual 12 The Back-up Jason Todd.jpg

----------


## J. D. Guy

> @D J. Guy (MInd if I go with @Guy, for short?), don't worry. I wouldn't stress much about Reiser (or any other of them), not yet in any case. It seems to me that solicits tend to be overdramatic and lie a little bit; and besides, Lobdell could soft-rebooting the character a little bit for reintroduction.
> 
> I still think he's going to try some Thuderbolts-esque group with this, but with the teens being strainght antagonistic and gray. I don't know why, but it gives me that vibe.


I guess that's fine. Although without the "J. D.", 'Guy' doesn't have as much character.  :Stick Out Tongue:  Maybe try JD or J.D. or whathaveyou.  :Smile: 

Perhaps I'm worrying over nothing, true, since it could just be solicit hype/exaggeration. It's just that I really enjoyed Lobdell's _Doomed_. I'm happy to see Reiser again under Lobdell, but I worry that the nuance he was setting up with the character will be lost in transition (accident or purposefully), since this is primarily Jason's story and isn't Reiser's . (Reimaginings/soft-reboots aren't uncommon, but Reiser is someone I feel just needs a reintroduction, and not so much a re-imagining/soft-reboot.)

I'm curious as to how a legit Thunderbolts analogue would work. (I wouldn't count Suicide Squad as one, personally.)




> I agree. I think the teens here are going to be more gray and antagonistic rather than straight up evil. Sort of like Jason himself. I'm getting a "Jason trains these guys to be more than villains" vibe from this in all honesty. It feels very much like when Deathstroke asked Dick to train Rose back in the day. I could see Jason stealth teaching them to be, if not heroes, then at least something closer to anti-heroes rather than a straight up villains. We have to remember that Jason doesn't ordinarily care for villains and other baddies either and has on various occasions wanted them dead. I'm guessing he's planning to undermine things from the inside and this is just a way for him to get closer to his goal.
> 
> Edit: I'm also very glad to see Reiser again. I loved Doomed and was sad when it was cancelled. I'm with JD in that I hope this is a way to  push his story along as well although I'm not expecting it.


I generally expected that Jason'll be stealth-mentoring these youths into something more nuanced then a typical villain and more in like with himself as an Anti-Hero when I first heard of this arc. I'm just shocked to see Reiser among them, haven gone from getting acknowledgement from Superman to apparently being under Lex's purview.

Happy to see someone else who enjoyed Doomed. (Though I vaguely recall learning that from you a few years back, actually.) And yeah, again, I'd love this arc to be a way to stealth progress Reiser's story, as much of a, technically selfish, pipe dream that hope is.




> Maybe Reiser was negatively  influenced by the collapse of the source wall, so that he loses control of his powers more often.
> The same is maybe true for Bunker's new black bricks - could be a positive power-up.
> All in all I agree with the others. Those kids don't look like villains. They maybe look a little rough but they also have to protect a little baby. And Jason doesn't look like the nice guy from next door in his MK outfit.


Would be interesting, assuming Lobdell would want to go in that direction and reference the Source Wall's collapse.

----------


## J. D. Guy

And I just really noticed Reiser's new Doomed design. Probably why I never even realized it was him in last month's RH:O solicits. The only reason I know it is him now is because the newest solicits refer to him by name.

Originally, Reiser's Doomed form was crimson red with radioactive green highlights like his hands, eyes, and acid. Now, he's this chalky gray color that makes him look more like Doomsday (though still with kryptonite-green highlights/contrasts). Before, he referenced Doomsday, but had a design that allowed him to be iconic to his own self.

Also, it's funny for anyone who's read _Doomed_, but it seems Reiser finally found some clothes that don't disinterested upon transformation! XD (He used to be naked whenever he transformed back, but now he's got some tailor-made, erosion-proof shorts w/belt.) 

IMG]https://i.imgur.com/NkmqHD5.png[/IMG]


I'm looking forward to getting big brother and leader/mentor Jason in this little mini-arc with these teens. I'm all for Jason getting positive portrayals like this. Everyone always sites Dick as the "social one who everyone loves and respects", but that a trait all of Bruce's protege's come to develop over time, from Grayson all the way to Duke. I'm always for Jason getting to embrace that side of himself, in his own Antihero way.

----------


## RedBird

imalextodd

----------


## Zaresh

> imalextodd


I dig this artstyle a lot. Love it.

----------


## G-Potion

> imalextodd


Nice! I guess these arm ribbons will stay loose most of the time in fanarts (and official arts if Yasmine Putri continues drawing RHATO covers).  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Restingvoice

> And I just really noticed Reiser's new Doomed design. Probably why I never even realized it was him in last month's RH:O solicits. The only reason I know it is him now is because the newest solicits refer to him by name.
> 
> Originally, Reiser's Doomed form was crimson red with radioactive green highlights like his hands, eyes, and acid. Now, he's this chalky gray color that makes him look more like Doomsday (though still with kryptonite-green highlights/contrasts). Before, he referenced Doomsday, but had a design that allowed him to be iconic to his own self.
> 
> Also, it's funny for anyone who's read _Doomed_, but it seems Reiser finally found some clothes that don't disinterested upon transformation! XD (He used to be naked whenever he transformed back, but now he's got some tailor-made, erosion-proof shorts w/belt.) 
> 
> IMG]https://i.imgur.com/NkmqHD5.png[/IMG]


Oh hey, that's Doomsday pants. Same color and even has the cables. Ooh, that's why he's recolored. To fit classic Doomsday. 

He also has a different expression. More evil. I only remember Doomed Doomed looking confused.

----------


## Sergard

uth69




uth69

----------


## Sergard

Jarrulus




42




WATACOTTY

----------


## Jackalope89

Yeah, the one from uth69 went over my head. Anyway;




44 seconds, some first and second Robin bonding. In its own way.

----------


## Sergard

Mia

----------


## Aahz

> I put the thread on hiatus, at least for a week. End of June is a little stressful for me. But I'd like to continue in July. And maybe until then we have found a better schedule.


I'm stil on board with the reread.






> And on another note: I've read "The Back-up" (part of Batman Annual #12) yesterday. It's an eight-page story about Jason's school life.
> I didn't know that Jason had friends at school (Jason calls them friends in other panels). Were those three ever mentioned in other stories?


No this is the only post crisis story that deals with Jasons live out side of beeing Ronin, and it is actually Jason's  only solo story from his original time as Robin post crisis.

----------


## Sergard

I love those artworks. So many different emotions, atmospheres and styles.

zumaon





Paz




RedRidingHood

----------


## Sergard

Here's a podcast with Bendis. I have only listened to a few parts. According to someone on Reddit Bendis mentions that Event Leviathan #2 will answer the question if Jason is Leviathan or not, although I haven't found that part yet.

----------


## Sergard

> No this is the only post crisis story that deals with Jasons live out side of beeing Ronin, and it is actually Jason's  only solo story from his original time as Robin post crisis.


That's sad to hear. In Batman #413 was a little glimpse of Jason's school life too.





Jason doing his homework in the batcave is such a nice touch. It emphasizes the point that Jason cares about school but puts Robin first. I also love Bruce' #1 Superhero mug and that Jason drinks a glass of milk (could be water but I prefer to think that it's milk).  That reminds me of Detective Comics #570 when Jason orders milk in a bar and doesn't realize that he's talking with a prostitute.

----------


## gohei_

LOL that grin on Batman's face when talking to Rhonda. I wonder what their history looks like  :Cool:

----------


## Sergard

> LOL that grin on Batman's face when talking to Rhonda. I wonder what their history looks like


Who knows. But I like that Bruce doesn't look down on prostitutes. At least in this issue.

----------


## JasonTodd428

> I generally expected that Jason'll be stealth-mentoring these youths into something more nuanced then a typical villain and more in like with himself as an Anti-Hero when I first heard of this arc. I'm just shocked to see Reiser among them, haven gone from getting acknowledgement from Superman to apparently being under Lex's purview.


To be honest I'm not all that surprised that Reiser ended up being under Lex's purview seeing as how Lex is one of Superman's main enemies. I could see someone like Lex being very interested in someone like Reiser and wanting to study him. I could also see him trying to "infect" Doomed with something from the Dark Multiverse. It makes a lot of sense to me anyway. 




> Happy to see someone else who enjoyed Doomed. (Though I vaguely recall learning that from you a few years back, actually.) And yeah, again, I'd love this arc to be a way to stealth progress Reiser's story, as much of a, technically selfish, pipe dream that hope is.


Like I said I'm not expecting that to happen but that doesn't stop me from wanting it to. So much was left unsaid and undone when Doomed was cancelled. I really liked that book a lot.




> And I just really noticed Reiser's new Doomed design. Probably why I never even realized it was him in last month's RH:O solicits. The only reason I know it is him now is because the newest solicits refer to him by name.
> 
> Originally, Reiser's Doomed form was crimson red with radioactive green highlights like his hands, eyes, and acid. Now, he's this chalky gray color that makes him look more like Doomsday (though still with kryptonite-green highlights/contrasts). Before, he referenced Doomsday, but had a design that allowed him to be iconic to his own self.
> 
> Also, it's funny for anyone who's read _Doomed_, but it seems Reiser finally found some clothes that don't disinterested upon transformation! XD (He used to be naked whenever he transformed back, but now he's got some tailor-made, erosion-proof shorts w/belt.) 
> 
> IMG]https://i.imgur.com/NkmqHD5.png[/IMG]
> 
> 
> I'm looking forward to getting big brother and leader/mentor Jason in this little mini-arc with these teens. I'm all for Jason getting positive portrayals like this. Everyone always sites Dick as the "social one who everyone loves and respects", but that a trait all of Bruce's protege's come to develop over time, from Grayson all the way to Duke. I'm always for Jason getting to embrace that side of himself, in his own Antihero way.


Yeah, I noticed the new design as well. Not sure if I like it or not. I'm gonna have to see it in action so to speak before making a decision. He does look a bit to much like Doomsday for my tastes though. At least this time he seems to have some clothes that don't get ripped apart every time he transforms so I count that as a win. 

However I am very happy to see Jason taking on this type of role, which I think will be very good for him. We already know for his dealings with Biz (and the other Outlaws for that matter) that he has the goods to be a decent big brother/mentor/leader. I'm excited to see it now. 

Also some much great fan art. Thanks to all who take the time to find them. I appreciate it. 

@Segard: I loved "The Back-Up" but then again I love seeing these sort of slices of life outside of hero work in comics and wish there were more of them in modern comics at least from time to time anyway. I really liked how much Jason loved school in these excerpts. I'd forgotten about some of them.

----------


## Sergard

From Detective Comics #569: 

Detective Comics #569 Jason Todd Gutenberg.jpg

(I love the "Holy Gutenberg!" part.)

And from Detective Comics #570:



Bruce' behavior in the first panel surprisingly reminds me of King's current Batman run. Although here it's really only one panel. Bruce is already back to normal in the next one.

----------


## Sergard

JJMK

----------


## G-Potion

Cool designs! I love how the red bat and white streak are subtly integrated.

----------


## Sergard

Good to know. (source: Jason Fabok on Twitter)  :Big Grin: 

Jason Fabok Three Jokers 25. Juni 2019.jpg

And some information given in the comments: each issue has 50 pages.

Another post: 




> "YOU KNOW WHO I AM!" #batman Three Jokers Sneak Peak!




Someone asked about the official release date and Fabok answered "we will know soon".


And for people who are curious about the Batmobile design, yet another post: 




> I posted this once before, but I had such a great response from the Batmobile panel I posted, I thought Id post this again. Here is the 3d model of the Batmobile that my brother Steve built. Steve works for Ubisoft as a character modeler. I might print it on my 3d printer!

----------


## Jackalope89

That first part is the most important part EVAH!

----------


## Jackalope89



----------


## Sergard

RedRidingHood





Sammie Zhou




evinist (page 8 of "Detective Pikabat")

----------


## Sergard

inkydandy






dontot

----------


## Sergard

kylejoshua.castillo




part 2



Red Lantern version

----------


## Sergard

The white streak strikes again.

Alexatoddart






And some random thoughts from last night because I was awake until 4 in the morning and listening to Negative Man singing People like Us: Jason's fashion style looks a little bit like a combination of Negative Man and Robotman from the Doom Patrol TV series. So if Jason is the fashion child of Negative Man and Robotman, does that mean Conner Kent is Jason's fashion half-brother because Robotman fashion cheated on Negative Man with Lobo? (I want to repeat that it was 4 in the morning. I was very tired.)

----------


## Sergard

Dexter Soy





Also, Woods has confirmed a week ago that Rocafort will only draw three issues. After Rocafort's original post I had hoped that he'd draw three issues, take a one issue break and then return again for 41 forward. And so far I haven't seen any official announcement or even rumor who the new artist will be.

----------


## Zaresh

> The white streak strikes again.
> 
> Alexatoddart
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And some random thoughts from last night because I was awake until 4 in the morning and listening to Negative Man singing People like Us: Jason's fashion style looks a little bit like a combination of Negative Man and Robotman from the Doom Patrol TV series. So if Jason is the fashion child of Negative Man and Robotman, does that mean Conner Kent is Jason's fashion half-brother because Robotman fashion cheated on Negative Man with Lobo? (I want to repeat that it was 4 in the morning. I was very tired.)


Ha ha, and I thought I had a problem thinking about random stuff when I wanted to sleep (well, not right know, the perks of working a job again). Glad to see I'm not alone in the insomniac club XDD. Humm. Both Robotman and Negative Man were my faves in that show (alongside Rita), and their looks helped, I guess. I think that a jumble of the two does feel like what Jason's fashion tends to look like. I don't know about Conner, though. Depends on which version, I guess.

I wonder who we will get after Rocafort.

----------


## Arsenal

Speaking of issue #41, with Vol. 2 of RHATO about to surpass the length of the first run, anybody want to take a shot in the dark regarding how long it’ll last this time before (hopefully) getting relaunched again.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Speaking of issue #41, with Vol. 2 of RHATO about to surpass the length of the first run, anybody want to take a shot in the dark regarding how long it’ll last this time before (hopefully) getting relaunched again.


Probably at least 50 at this rate. That said, if it does get a reboot, I want Artemis and Biz back. And I'm sure I'm not the only one.

----------


## Sergard

zumaon





glitter_dc





Sammie Zhou

----------


## Sergard

> Ha ha, and I thought I had a problem thinking about random stuff when I wanted to sleep (well, not right know, the perks of working a job again). Glad to see I'm not alone in the insomniac club XDD. Humm. Both Robotman and Negative Man were my faves in that show (alongside Rita), and their looks helped, I guess. I think that a jumble of the two does feel like what Jason's fashion tends to look like. I don't know about Conner, though. Depends on which version, I guess.
> 
> I wonder who we will get after Rocafort.


One of the often overlooked advantages of a job is a better sleeping schedule management. Although weekend is still "I go to bed when I want to"-time except when I have stuff to finish because then weekend is "I go to bed when I'm finished with my stuff"-time. And surprisingly I was more awake around 3 o'clock in the morning than around 1 o'clock. I was thinking of Conner's current design with the spiked leather jacket. Although comic Negative Man is probably a better pick since there's at least a design of him with a more standard skin-tight superhero outfit combined with a normal winter jacket. So it seems like Negative Man is the the fashion cheater and not Robotman. What an unbelievable turn of events. And it's not even late (but I'm already tired. The day was long enough.)

On another note: Today I received my copy of Batman: The Dark Knight Detective Vol. 1. So far I've only flipped through it but it seems like there are some interesting stories with Jason included. I already know how I'll spend my weekend. Especially Detective Comics #574 looks very emotional.



And some panels (source: dc.fandom.com). The artwork looks better in the book, like here in the preview.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine



----------


## Jackalope89

Nice design. Haven't really looked at or collected toys in a long time, but that one is tempting.

----------


## Restingvoice

> 


Oh, come on. There's space in the top left corner of the plastic that they can use to put an alternate unmasked head.

----------


## Sergard

> 


I've seen that figure yesterday on Twitter (shared by the sculptor Paul Harding).  It looks really nice but I didn't expect less from a Jason Fabok design.

----------


## Sergard

Dexter Soy




> Dark Trinity Ill bring this piece to #sdcc19 . DM me if youre interested.







airair_ii

----------


## G-Potion

> Oh, come on. There's space in the top left corner of the plastic that they can use to put an alternate unmasked head.


This is a legit reaction.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I've seen that figure yesterday on Twitter (shared by the sculptor Paul Harding).  It looks really nice but I didn't expect less from a Jason Fabok design.


Weird. That is Rebirth's design, and that one is credited to Giuseppe Camuncolli

----------


## Zaresh

> This is a legit reaction.


It totally is. I mean it.
Really.

----------


## AJpyro

Jay's newesr volume: Outlaw vol 1 dropped today. Have to get it next week tho.

----------


## Sergard

> Jay's newesr volume: Outlaw vol 1 dropped today. Have to get it next week tho.


I pre-ordered mine. It will ship next week together with some other comics like the variants of RH:O #36, Batman and the Outsiders #3 (Ra's looks so awesome), Event: Leviathan #2 and DCeased #1.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

So, the Batman and the Justice League manga is set shortly after the Joker murdering Jason. I wasn't expecting that.

----------


## Sergard

mm_forest_m






crowy





mm_forest_m

----------


## RedBird

ninalinovna

_jason when the other batkids contact him behind bruces back_

----------


## G-Potion

The expression!! Beautiful.  :Big Grin:

----------


## Sergard

inkydandy

----------


## Sergard



----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Lots of Jason in the event Leviathan#2 preview.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Couldn't find Jason anywhere but I think Leviathan is behind Huntress and besides Swamp Thing is Artemis in what it seems to be a new costume.

----------


## Arsenal

I think Jason is the in the space under Kara and above Batwoman. If that’s not him, I have no idea who else it’s supposed to be.

----------


## Aahz

> I think Jason is the in the space under Kara and above Batwoman. If thats not him, I have no idea who else its supposed to be.


Looks apart from the color more like Nightwing.

----------


## Arsenal

> Looks apart from the color more like Nightwing.


Maybe but the swords (Im assuming thats what those are) on his back dont feel very Nightwingy

----------


## Frontier

> Couldn't find Jason anywhere but I think Leviathan is behind Huntress and besides Swamp Thing is Artemis in what it seems to be a new costume.


Is that Bullock next to Shazam :P? 

And Montoya next to Fate and in front of John Stewart..? Or is that her in Question gear behind Tom Strong?

----------


## Aahz

> Maybe but the swords (Im assuming thats what those are) on his back dont feel very Nightwingy


Nightwing usually wares his Escrima Sticks like that, and if it is Jason, why doesn't he have his helmet (or his face mask + hood from his current design) that's the most iconic part of his look.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Is that Bullock next to Shazam :P? 
> 
> And Montoya next to Fate and in front of John Stewart..? Or is that her in Question gear behind Tom Strong?


Yes is Bullock, Montoya is in her question gear, no idea who's in front of John




> Maybe but the swords (I’m assuming that’s what those are) on his back don’t feel very “Nightwingy”


Look like escrima sticks. Sort of a mix between Ric current gear and N52 Nightwing.

----------


## Arsenal

> Nightwing usually wares his Escrima Sticks like that, and if it is Jason, why doesn't he have his helmet (or his face mask + hood from his current design) that's the most iconic part of his look.





> Yes is Bullock, Montoya is in her question gear, no idea who's in front of John
> 
> 
> 
> Look like escrima sticks. Sort of a mix between Ric current gear and N52 Nightwing.


That’s fair. I just figured if it was Nightwing they’d go with the blue and put him somewhere more prominent.

----------


## Badou

> Couldn't find Jason anywhere but I think Leviathan is behind Huntress and besides Swamp Thing is Artemis in what it seems to be a new costume.


I think Jason is in the back between Superman and Supergirl. I get how some would think it would look like Dick because of some Nightwing costumes he wore, but he hasn't wore a Nightwing costume with his escrima sticks on his back since the New 52 I think. He doesn't really wear it in the main DCU. Also Ric is pure garbage and not worth putting into this spread, haha. 

And if you look closely the two weapons on his back in the image are different shapes. One is skinnier than the other, which matches the sword and crowbar Jason is wearing now like in the Leviathan preview.

----------


## Aahz

> I think Jason is in the back between Superman and Supergirl.


If that's supposed to be him, the artist imo didn't made a good job with his look.




> I get how some would think it would look like Dick because of some Nightwing costumes he wore, but he hasn't wore a Nightwing costume with his escrima sticks on his back since the New 52 I think.


 He had them post Rebirth (at least in first issues, I didn't had time to check the whole run).

Btw. Any ideas who is between Supergirl and the Chinese Super-Man? And who the two in the Background behind Shazam and Vibe are?

----------


## Arsenal

No idea who the kids supposed to be but I’m guessing the woman is supposed to be Lois.

----------


## Badou

> If that's supposed to be him, the artist imo didn't made a good job with his look.
> 
> Btw. Any ideas who is between Supergirl and the Chinese Super-Man? And who the two in the Background behind Shazam and Vibe are?


The logo on the front is a bit big, but it looks like Jason without his helmet mostly I think. The two weapons on his back being different shapes feels like it has to be Jason though.

Difficult to tell. Is the blonde guy Jericho maybe? And I think the woman in purple might be Lois and I guess the guy in blue could be Ric maybe since it is just a normal guy. Not really sure though.

----------


## Aahz

> The logo on the front is a bit big, but it looks like Jason without his helmet mostly I think.


But why is the helmet (or mask+hood) are missing? Thats the central part of his look, he is the Red *Hood* after all.

----------


## Badou

> But why is the helmet (or mask+hood) are missing? Thats the central part of his look, he is the Red *Hood* after all.


No idea. Maybe he will stop wearing the mask for a bit until the whole Leviathan story finishes given the design of the Leviathan leader? He took them off in that preview.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

So, the people that think that is Jason, why has no one mentioned the emblem? Is not the old red bat nor Wood's penguin face.

----------


## Arsenal

> So, the people that think that is Jason, why has no one mentioned the emblem? Is not the old red bat nor Wood's penguin face.


Could be a new design? I mean Artemis seemingly got one so whose to say she’s the only one? Plus Catwoman’s Katana’s & Kara’s costumes on that are different than their current designs and it wouldn’t surprise me if there were more.

Plus the only alternative would be Dick which doesn’t make much sense given the characters current status quo.

----------


## Sergard

zumaon





A_sebury




02png

----------


## Sergard

42jpg








There are more pics, but they are slash-y. So I don't post them here. (Although Jason looks really good in the red Durmstrang uniform).

----------


## Aahz

> Speaking of issue #41, with Vol. 2 of RHATO about to surpass the length of the first run, anybody want to take a shot in the dark regarding how long itll last this time before (hopefully) getting relaunched again.


What I find kind of interesting is, that appart from him (if I didn't overlook anything) only Batgirl, Nightwing and the Big Six had their book run continuously since flashpoint. RHatO might be the lowest selling book among these but that's still an achievement.

----------


## AJpyro

So there was a neat twist to todays issue. It ended the Outlaw arc okish but it felt like filler.

----------


## dietrich

Never too old for Dad to love [Bruce, Dick, Jason, Tim and Damian]



Not sure which is Dick and which is Jason

https://doc-squash.tumblr.com

----------


## Arsenal

God damn it. Of course that’s who Wingman was.

----------


## Jackalope89

> God damn it. Of course that’s who Wingman was.


I smell editorial's stench screwing with things again.

----------


## Arsenal

I'm down for more All Caste though.

I want more Ducra damn it. She don't get enough love amongst the fandom.

----------


## Zaresh

(Nevermind)

Edit: crap, this was meant to be posted in the other thread.

----------


## JasonTodd428

> I smell editorial's stench screwing with things again.


To be honest Willis was one of my suspects for the ID of Wingman so it didn't come as a complete surprise to me when that reveal happened. I felt that Willis being revealed as Wingman was always the intention here so I don't think that specific plot point had anything to do with editorial although the rushed nature of the reveal itself and this issue in particular probably does have to do with exactly that. I rather suspect Lobdell was planning for more build up before the reveal but that those plans were derailed because of editorial and the events DC is involved with currently.

----------


## Jackalope89

> To be honest Willis was one of my suspects for the ID of Wingman so it didn't come as a complete surprise to me when that reveal happened. I felt that Willis being revealed as Wingman was always the intention here so I don't think that specific plot point had anything to do with editorial although the rushed nature of the reveal itself and this issue in particular probably does have to do with exactly that. I rather suspect Lobdell was planning for more build up before the reveal but that those plans were derailed because of editorial and the events DC is involved with currently.


That's about where I was at too. It makes sense that Willis would be there, though it still leaves the question as to who spoke to Ma Gunn in her bottle prison.

----------


## Arsenal

> That's about where I was at too. It makes sense that Willis would be there, though it still leaves the question as to who spoke to Ma Gunn in her bottle prison.


My guess for now is that Solitary is an imposter who didn't realize he's an imposter, Solitary's abilities are far greater than we originally believed (so Wingman and Solitary were always one and the same) or the experiment/incident that lead to Solitary's creation actually left several people whose bodies, personalities, memories, etc were all mixed and matched to various degrees.

----------


## Zaresh

> To be honest Willis was one of my suspects for the ID of Wingman so it didn't come as a complete surprise to me when that reveal happened. I felt that Willis being revealed as Wingman was always the intention here so I don't think that specific plot point had anything to do with editorial although the rushed nature of the reveal itself and this issue in particular probably does have to do with exactly that. *I rather suspect Lobdell was planning for more build up before the reveal but that those plans were derailed because of editorial and the events DC is involved with currently.*


That, and the way Bunker was put on a bus are why I think there were changes. I honestly think that Willis being Wingman, or at least a certain level of playing with the idea of him being Wingman, was in the initial draft of the arc.

But who knows. Could be that Lobdell just couldn't wrap up the story in a better, less rushed way.

----------


## JasonTodd428

> My guess for now is that Solitary is an imposter who didn't realize he's an imposter, Solitary's abilities are far greater than we originally believed (so Wingman and Solitary were always one and the same) or *the experiment/incident that lead to Solitary's creation actually left several people whose bodies, personalities, memories, etc were all mixed and matched to various degrees.*


That's a good guess and sort of where I stand with this. I don't think that the experiment went exactly as it was supposed to in the first place and so a lot of "people" ended up with parts of themselves and Willis all mixed together. It could even be that Artemis's involvement in all this resulted in the experiment going haywire somehow. 




> That, and the way Bunker was put on a bus are why I think there were changes. I honestly think that Willis being Wingman, or at least a certain level of playing with the idea of him being Wingman, was in the initial draft of the arc.
> 
> But who knows. Could be that Lobdell just couldn't wrap up the story in a better, less rushed way.


Yeah, the whole Bunker thing was pretty much a rush job. Frankly I would have liked a bit more build up there and a chance for Jason to show Miguel all that Cobblepot has been up to but no he just goes off in a huff presumably with Penguin to maybe work for him. I'm really surprised that Lobdell played the naive newbie hero card with Miguel here and it made me a bit irritated if I'm being honest about it. I do hope at some point there is a bit of resolution with that plot point because its left a bad taste in my mouth.

----------


## Arsenal

Honestly, given the state Jason found Bunker in, I can kinda  buy Bunker being quick to free Penguin from his cell even if it wasn’t the right call.

----------


## JasonTodd428

> Honestly, given the state Jason found Bunker in, I can kinda  buy Bunker being quick to free Penguin from his cell even if it wasnt the right call.


I can buy Bunker being quick to free Penguin because of what he'd been through sure. I can even buy that he feels some sort of sympathy or a connection to Cobblepot because of that. The part that struck me as odd, at least on a certain level anyway, was that he believes Cobblepot enough that he would go off with him without given Jason a chance to explain anything. That's why I said Lobdell was playing the "naive superhero" card with him, which I don't agree with. Bunker has seen to much with just the Teen Titans to be that naive as to how things work in my opinion.

----------


## Darkcrusade25

After almost a year with it, Imma say...Jason's Solo Outlaw look is his best look ever. Much better improvement than the helmet. If only he wore a black or white leather jacket over the red hoodie, it would be 100% perfect.

----------


## Arsenal

I'm glad they changed the costume when Woods came on board. Wood's design with the new suit looks much better than his version of the old suit.

----------


## RedBird

Off topic I know, but when it comes to Leviathan #2 on the one hand Jason's resigned attitude to being accused feels really sad. On the other hand, the way he takes the accusations with so much stride, just straight up prepping his gloves and mask and getting ready to run whilst speaking in such a casual manner kinda makes me laugh a little too.

He's just like...

----------


## JasonTodd428

> Off topic I know, but when it comes to Leviathan #2 on the one hand Jason's resigned attitude to being accused feels really sad. On the other hand, the way he takes the accusations with so much stride, just straight up prepping his gloves and mask and getting ready to run whilst speaking in such a casual manner kinda makes me laugh a little too.
> 
> He's just like...


I totally agree with you there. I only read the panels that have been posted because in all honesty Bendis is not always my cuppa but at least Bendis managed to convey that tone of resignation and the sense that Jason was going to be the bigger man here by taking the accusations in stride. I'll give the writer props for that. It might even be enough for me to give this event a try even though I'm generally not interested in events.

----------


## Jackalope89

Still wondering how Green Arrow, self-proclaimed SJW, master archer, etc, somehow got on to the "detective" team. I don't recall him EVER being a detective. At least, no more than the average vigilante. Same with Elastic Man. If it was Ralph Dibney, sure. But Eel?

Anyway, time for Jason to chew bubblegum and kick some ass, and he's all out of bubblegum.

----------


## Sergard

JJMK *Jason Thumbelina Todd*

----------


## Sergard

02png




sferiolla

----------


## Zaresh

> Still wondering how Green Arrow, self-proclaimed SJW, master archer, etc, somehow got on to the "detective" team. I don't recall him EVER being a detective. At least, no more than the average vigilante. Same with Elastic Man. If it was Ralph Dibney, sure. But Eel?
> 
> Anyway, time for Jason to chew bubblegum and kick some ass, and he's all out of bubblegum.


Because whoever Leviathan is, they're probably related to him somehow. I mean, for me, it's definitely a given. Another posibility I see is that they're related to Barbara. Could be that Leviathan is Dinah, and that would also explain why Helena is there. But I still think they're two individuals at least, one being related to each vigilante.

I wonder where Jason is going to settle his HQ for the new arc.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Because whoever Leviathan is, they're probably related to him somehow. I mean, for me, it's definitely a given. Another posibility I see is that they're related to Barbara. Could be that Leviathan is Dinah, and that would also explain why Helena is there. But I still think they're two individuals at least, one being related to each vigilante.


Except, why would Jason go after Babs? Post Flashpoint through Rebirth, they've had an amicable relationship (and a few times, hinted at more). The worst they've gone at it, was when Jason told Babs to tell Bruce to go fudge himself.




> I wonder where Jason is going to settle his HQ for the new arc.


 Well, he'll need a place big enough, and sturdy enough, to train a group of up and coming metas.

----------


## Arsenal

I'm still hoping that one day they'll just use Starfire's island as Outlaw HQ.

----------


## Zaresh

> Except, why would Jason go after Babs? Post Flashpoint through Rebirth, they've had an amicable relationship (and a few times, hinted at more). The worst they've gone at it, was when Jason told Babs to tell Bruce to go fudge himself.
> 
>  Well, he'll need a place big enough, and sturdy enough, to train a group of up and coming metas.


I don't mean Jason. I mean whoever is Leviathan :/

----------


## Jovos2099

What does everyone think jasons reaction to flashpoint batman thomas Wayne would be?

----------


## RedBird

Nevermind.

----------


## Swallowtail

> Anyone seen Lego Batman: Family matters yet?
> It was cute, I kinda liked it. First half of the film kinda gives you the impression that it's seriously remaking UTRH (with a dab of Arkham Knight in there), but then with the second half, I gotta say the way they twist the Jasons story and issues to be so absurdly simplified and kid friendly is kinda funny XD.


Where did you even see it? Its not due to have its world premiere until SDCC next week?

----------


## RedBird

Nevermind.

----------


## Swallowtail

> Wow really? It's not even released? I had no idea. I saw it on youtube.


Sounds like another step on the road from everyone hates Jason to everyone likes Jason.

----------


## G-Potion

I need to see it right now!!

----------


## RedBird

Nevermind.

----------


## Zaresh

> Anyone seen Lego Batman: Family matters yet?
> It was cute, I kinda liked it. First half of the film kinda gives you the impression that it's seriously remaking UTRH (with a dab of Arkham Knight in there), but then with the second half, I gotta say the way they twist Jasons story and issues to be so absurdly simplified and kid friendly is kinda funny XD.
> 
> It certainly kept the core, 'prove you actually care' theme. haha
> 
> *spoilers:*
> It's honestly a really adorable a lighthearted take on Jason and Bruces relationship with some sweet moments. Also I legitimately laughed out loud when the classic 'I thought you were dead' scene came up. I didn't actually expect the route that they went with on that. The dialogue and expressions are pretty great. XD
> *end of spoilers*


I have to watch it, definitely will check.

----------


## Jovos2099

What does everyone think jason todd reaction to meeting flashpoint batman thomas wayne seeing how they similar beliefs on how to deal with criminals?

----------


## Arsenal

"Hey Gramps, lemme introduce you to this clown real quick"

----------


## Sergard

> What does everyone think jason todd reaction to meeting flashpoint batman thomas wayne seeing how they similar beliefs on how to deal with criminals?


I don't know Flashpoint Thomas Wayne good enough. He seems a little crazy in Tom King's Batman run. I haven't read a lot but wasn't Thomas okay with Bane breaking Bruce? And doesn't Thomas want to use a Lazarus pit to revive his wife?

I don't think that are qualities that Jason can tolerate. Maybe Jason would have liked Thomas before King got his hands on the character.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I don't know Flashpoint Thomas Wayne good enough. He seems a little crazy in Tom King's Batman run. I haven't read a lot but wasn't Thomas okay with Bane breaking Bruce? And doesn't Thomas want to use a Lazarus pit to revive his wife?
> 
> I don't think that are qualities that Jason can tolerate. Maybe Jason would have liked Thomas before King got his hands on the character.


Killing bad criminals? Sure.
Reviving his wife, whom was Flashpoints version of Joker? No.
Using a Lazarus Pit to do it? HELL Naw!
Hurting Alfred? I'MMA GONNA HURT YOU!

----------


## Zaresh

Ah, I already watched that movie. It was fun. 

*spoilers:*
In the end, Robin was Damian, but, eh, this Damian is... whoever he may be, because they may share the name and be totally unrelated characters. Dick was silly fun, but I guess (know) that's his trick for the Lego Universe, because he's fuel for Babs. Apparently there is a Tim, but he doesn't show up. Jason is adorable, a bit of an idiot or dense or whatever you want to name him, but I liked him: brave, bold, and creative and smart in a different sense that legoDamian. I liked Billy Batson small role in the story (I'm guessing the next movie is a Shazam movie), and whoever voiced him did a great work.
*end of spoilers*

The Internet is... mysterious and has mysterious ways, I guess.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Ok, yeah. That was a fun movie. 

Despite some whiplash on the way Jason's disappearance was handled and his use of guns, is a pretty cool take of a more kid-friendly Jason. And surprisingly, despite the obvious limitations due the format and material, they successfully differentiate Jason from Dick. Damian took the short end of the stick since he's nothing like Damian (or rather, he's a Damian with no personal issues).

Sucks for Tim fans though.

----------


## Sergard

Nice movie, nothing big but still enjoyable.
I liked that Batwoman got some time to shine. But I don't understand why they didn't include Tim, especially since Tim would have been a better choice for Robin than Damian judging by how Robin was portrayed. 
Comparing trailer and movie I totally misjudged some scenes from the trailer.

By now it feels more like a running gag that Damian accuses Jason without any evidence.
Jason works for the Other
Jason is Leviathan
Jason controls Brothereye

----------


## kaimaciel

Aww! The movie was really sweet and it wasn't a bad take on Jason. I liked it, especially after what happened in Leviathan. 

Barbara, Damian and Tim's fans probably will a few issues with their portrayal though.

----------


## Jackalope89

So I actually have to catch a Lego Batman film to see Jason?

*sigh* I'll do it later tonight.

Quick poll though; how many think Jason was Red X in the Teen Titans animated series?

----------


## Zaresh

The concept came before the resurrection in the comics, right? I vote "he isn't". But it could be easily changed now to be him.

----------


## RedBird

> So I actually have to catch a Lego Batman film to see Jason?
> 
> *sigh* I'll do it later tonight.
> 
> Quick poll though; how many think Jason was Red X in the Teen Titans animated series?


I don't think the writers originally planned for it to be Jason, probably some kind of alt universe Dick, or some new character they were going to reveal from Dicks past, or maybe they didn't have an identity planned and would have wanted to keep it a mystery forever.

But that being said, if the writers decided to continue Teen Titans from today on wards and reveal Red X's identity, I feel like there would be a decent chance that they would change the identity reveal to be Jason Todd just to appease all the popular theories surrounding that.

Personally? Until there's anything to contradict that theory, I'm happy to keep thinking it's Jason.

----------


## RedBird

takaaaashigani



takaaaashigani

----------


## Sergard

> I don't think the writers originally planned for it to be Jason, probably some kind of alt universe Dick, or some new character they were going to reveal from Dicks past, or maybe they didn't have an identity planned and would have wanted to keep it a mystery forever.
> 
> But that being said, if the writers decided to continue Teen Titans from today on wards and reveal Red X's identity, I feel like there would be a decent chance that they would change the identity reveal to be Jason Todd just to appease all the popular theories surrounding that.
> 
> Personally? Until there's anything to contradict that theory, I'm happy to keep thinking it's Jason.


I second that.




> takaaaashigani
> 
> takaaaashigani


I love how intense those artworks are.




moon115115





akkiyamia




akkiyamia

----------


## Sergard

I have just read Batman: Arkham Knight Annual #1 (Nov 2015). That's some emotional rollercoaster right there.

----------


## Sergard

Dexter Soy "Anatomy of a dead man"








Tyler Kirkham

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Well, issue 35 didn't make it into the top 100.

----------


## Arsenal

That’s not a surprise with all the minis/event related stuff going on that normally aren’t there. I figure it’s somewhere between the 101 and 110 slot.

----------


## Sergard

Some more Detective Pikabat from evinist:

page 10




page 11




page 12

----------


## Sergard

page 13





Fade

----------


## Zaresh

> Well, issue 35 didn't make it into the top 100.


Where did you look them? Comichron only lists the complete sales for May.

Edit: nevermind. I found the top 100 chart already. Welp, #34 didn't make it into the top either. I wonder what where the exact sales this time.

----------


## Sergard

42jpg




Sam




evinist, Detective Pikabat page 14

----------


## Arsenal

> Where did you look them? Comichron only lists the complete sales for May.
> 
> Edit: nevermind. I found the top 100 chart already. Welp, #34 didn't make it into the top either. I wonder what where the exact sales this time.


#113  Red Hood: Outlaw (2018) 35 18,067

----------


## Sergard

JJMK




Fade

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

https://www.newsarama.com/46013-deat...se-titles.html

So we're getting oneshots elseworlds based on famous storylines where everything goes to hell. The first ones confirmed are for KinghtFall and Death of Superman with plans for ones based on Infinity Crisis, Blackest Night and more. I wonder if DOTF will get one down the line.

----------


## Zaresh

> #113  Red Hood: Outlaw (2018) 35 18,067


Auch. Almost a thousand lost. That's no good.

----------


## Aahz

> Ok, yeah. That was a fun movie. 
> 
> Despite some whiplash on the way Jason's disappearance was handled and his use of guns, is a pretty cool take of a more kid-friendly Jason. And surprisingly, despite the obvious limitations due the format and material, they successfully differentiate Jason from Dick. Damian took the short end of the stick since he's nothing like Damian (or rather, he's a Damian with no personal issues).
> 
> Sucks for Tim fans though.


Tim gets really kind of neglected in comparison to the rest.
The only appearance he has at the moment in other media is in Young Justice, and thats probably only because when the series started Damian had just become Robin. 
And even there he hasn't got much screen time.

----------


## Sergard

First Roy as Leviathan fanart, that I've found.

02png

_"It has been a while, jaybird."

"I am sorry."_





And here's some Lego Red Hood (and Roy's hand)

Zack

----------


## Sergard

BX





Sneak Peek of InkyDandy's contribution to the BatFam Fashion Zine "Gotham Bold".

----------


## Arsenal

@TomTaylorMade
Coming in October: #DCEased 
@Kamo_1981

(Keep watching)
DCEASED OCTOBER.jpg


This might be a DCEASED variant cover for October’s RH:O

----------


## Zaresh

> First Roy as Leviathan fanart, that I've found.
> 
> 02png
> 
> _"It has been a while, jaybird."
> 
> "I am sorry."_
> 
> 
> ...


Aw, cute and touching.

----------


## G-Potion

> Aw, cute and touching.


Yep love both of them.  :Embarrassment:

----------


## Sergard

> @TomTaylorMade
> Coming in October: #DCEased 
> @Kamo_1981
> 
> (Keep watching)
> Attachment 84577
> 
> 
> This might be a DCEASED variant cover for Octobers RH:O


It seems so at least. Tom Taylor has posted a lot of variant covers on Twitter.
I wonder if DC has planned from the beginning to turn a lot of October variants in DCeased inspired covers or if the popularity of DCeased #1 was the main reason.
The RH:O variant looks amazing. I'm still in awe of the difficult to draw angle.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> @TomTaylorMade
> Coming in October: #DCEased 
> @Kamo_1981
> 
> (Keep watching)
> Attachment 84577
> 
> 
> This might be a DCEASED variant cover for Octobers RH:O


Ok, not gonna lie, the fact Jason is one of the few heroes depicted still fighting the Anti Life Zombies in these round of variants is pretty badass.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Ok, not gonna lie, the fact Jason is one of the few heroes depicted still fighting the Anti Life Zombies in these round of variants is pretty badass.


And no reason for him to hold back either. Even Superman, someone almost as adamant about no killing as Bruce, has had to forego it with the zombie outbreak. And Jason going all out is a scary thing. Hopefully he can meet up with the other survivors.

----------


## Restingvoice

Obligatory zombie Jason joke

DCeased #3
Zombies: GWARREGRYGERKEGRR
Jason: Honestly? Same

----------


## G-Potion

> Obligatory zombie Jason joke
> 
> DCeased #3
> Zombies: GWARREGRYGERKEGRR
> Jason: Honestly? Same


Ha. He does say 'honestly' a lot. XD

----------


## Jackalope89

> Obligatory zombie Jason joke
> 
> DCeased #3
> Zombies: GWARREGRYGERKEGRR
> Jason: Honestly? Same


Zombies: Gwargraaaagh!
Jason: Hey, I get it. I had the same reaction.
Damian: You understand them, Todd?
Jason: Yeah. They're pissed off about inflation.
Damian:...

----------


## Sergard

> Zombies: Gwargraaaagh!
> Jason: Hey, I get it. I had the same reaction.
> Damian: You understand them, Todd?
> Jason: Yeah. They're pissed off about inflation.
> Damian:...


Jason Todd - concerned about economy since his childhood.

----------


## Sergard

Rex Lokus did the colors on the DCeased inspired variant cover of RH:O and Tom Taylor posted that he loves the cover (source). He probably loves all the covers but still nice that he appreciates the artistic work. This makes me wonder if Rex Lokus will stay on color duty for RH:O.


And some fanart:

zumaon

----------


## Zaresh

> Ha. He does say 'honestly' a lot. XD


He feels it every time. He's an honest man!

Nah, I was wondering where the zombie jokes will start with DCeased. Honestly  :Cool:  lets the party begin.

----------


## Zaresh

> Rex Lokus did the colors on the DCeased inspired variant cover of RH:O and Tom Taylor posted that he loves the cover (source). He probably loves all the covers but still nice that he appreciates the artistic work. This makes me wonder if Rex Lokus will stay on color duty for RH:O.


I hope. Lokis is a solid colorist, and as far as I've seen, he can adapt to the penciler's style finely.

----------


## Sergard

(source) The RH:O variant inspired Tom Taylor to write something. So maybe we'll get some Jason Todd appearance in DCeased?

Tom Taylor DCeased variant cover for RHO.jpg

----------


## Zaresh

> (source) The RH:O variant inspired Tom Taylor to write something. So maybe we'll get some Jason Todd appearance in DCeased?
> 
> Tom Taylor DCeased variant cover for RHO.jpg


It's a very cool cover, no wonders he's been inspired by it.

----------


## Arsenal

It's probably the best that Jason's new costume has looked since it's debut.

----------


## Sergard

Another Event Leviathan inspired fanart by 02png

_"Why?"   "Wrong question."_

----------


## G-Potion

> (source) The RH:O variant inspired Tom Taylor to write something. So maybe we'll get some Jason Todd appearance in DCeased?


Would be great if something comes out of it.

----------


## Ssstammerer

Our boy looking good at SDCC 2019!

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I don't like the sculpt in the unmasked head. Still an improvement over the N52 Red Hood though.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

From the DC Collectibles panel

*"There's no way a Red Hood Black & White statue WON'T happen at some point," said DC Collectibles' Jim Fletcher.
*
https://24live.co/live/Gugt0

----------


## Sergard

dontots






Cheah_Up





Mia

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

New PVC Statue from Diamond Select to be released next year

----------


## Arsenal

That’s kind of dope.

----------


## G-Potion

> New PVC Statue from Diamond Select to be released next year


This one is nice, especially with the katana.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Our boy looking good at SDCC 2019!


_There's_ the optional head I want! Although he has GIJoe arm and leg. I want more muscles. 
Also, what's with Batman's haircut there? Or is that Jason's head? Yeah, that needs more work.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Batman Hush was screened at SDCC and word on street is that they wrote out Jason's role entirely.

----------


## Sergard

> Batman Hush was screened at SDCC and word on street is that they wrote out Jason's role entirely.


Doesn't Hush take place in a universe that only has had Dick and Damian as Robin?

----------


## Rac7d*

> Batman Hush was screened at SDCC and word on street is that they wrote out Jason's role entirely.


we already knew that?  we had the cast list, he not part of that animated universe, neither is tim

----------


## Aahz

And since they have already made a UtRH animated stand alone movie, and will therefore probably not remake it as part of their animated continuity, I don't think it would make much sense for them to retcon Jason in.

----------


## Sergard

> And since they have already made a UtRH animated stand alone movie, and will therefore probably not remake it as part of their animated continuity, I don't think it would make much sense for them to retcon Jason in.


I do at least hope that they don't remake it. UtRH aged well and is considered a good movie. There is no reason for a remake. But it's still a little sad that Jason and Tim aren't even existing in that universe. So much potential for other stories gets completely ignored.

----------


## Sergard

Now I'm confused. Aren't the DCeased covers that Tom Taylor has posted recently variants of the corresponding titles?

Because Karl Mostert (@Kamo_1981) has posted:

_Got the idea from @THEBRYANHITCH to post the line art from this cover for peeps to check out. @DCComics @TomTaylorMade @Ben_Abernathy @RexLokus #youguysrock_






I like what Karl Mostert did on the cover. It's a great composition and goes well with Rex Lokus' colors. I hope he gets more occasions at DC to shine. He also seems genuinely happy and grateful/humble that so many people have seen the artwork and like it.

(source) _Had to retweet this one. First time work of mine gets to be seen by over 2000 peeps. Thanks all. @RexLokus @Ben_Abernathy @TomTaylorMade #DCEased_

and in the comments by Tom Taylor: "_Seen by a few more than 2000_ " with a screenshot of some Twitter statistics.




I adore that Tom Taylor interacts with the artists and praises their work. Credit where credit is due. He seems to be such a nice and social person - in the meanwhile half of all DC characters die in his stories.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Now I'm confused. Aren't the DCeased covers that Tom Taylor has posted recently variants of the corresponding titles?
> 
> Because Karl Mostert (@Kamo_1981) has posted:
> 
> _Got the idea from @THEBRYANHITCH to post the line art from this cover for peeps to check out. @DCComics @TomTaylorMade @Ben_Abernathy @RexLokus #youguysrock_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'll be honest; the only time I followed Injustice 2 was when Lobo popped in. Him being turned into a Green Lantern was something I never realized I needed. Especially when he smashed Atrocitous.

----------


## Sergard

> I'll be honest; the only time I followed Injustice 2 was when Lobo popped in. Him being turned into a Green Lantern was something I never realized I needed. Especially when he smashed Atrocitous.


Tom Taylor seems to like turning DC characters into lanterns. In DCeased Black Canary becomes a Green Lantern.
But I can't blame him. Even fans like to discuss which lantern corps a character would theoretically belong to.



I think no one has posted the official season 2 poster of the Red Hood Fan Series yet. So here it is.
(Don't ask me why there are Power Rangers on the poster. I haven't watched the fan series yet.)




There's also a fanart based on the Red Hood fan series.

----------


## Jackalope89

Good guy Jason.

----------


## Sergard

> Good guy Jason.


I love this moment - and basically every interaction between Jason and Suzie in this arc.
Although the finale was a little lackluster, I still enjoyed the way Jason's character works. On the one hand Jason can bear grudges for a very long time and when he strikes he strikes hard. He shot Penguin and took everything away from him. But on the other hand Jason also sees the good he can do by giving the casino to the Su sisters who want to leave their criminal past behind.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Good review. The figure itself looks pretty good but it sucks is so tiny.

----------


## Aahz

> Don't ask me why there are Power Rangers on the poster. I haven't watched the fan series yet.


*spoilers:*
That's because Jason meets them while he is traveling the multiverse. For that they made a cross over with Ninja Kids TV, who are making a Power Rangers Fan series.
*end of spoilers*


Btw. watch it it is a fun series.

----------


## G-Potion

I haven't time to watch it yet but it seems to have taken off better than other fan series.

----------


## G-Potion

> Good review. The figure itself looks pretty good but it sucks is so tiny.


Looks very good. Still love the design even now. That tiny grenade though, I'd lose it in 5 mins flat.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Sergard

That's so cute.  :Smile: 

Dexter Soy

_Red Hood and pup-pup showed up at my signing.. thanks for the pic @Alex_Antone_

----------


## Sergard

Two weeks ago Lobdell posted something Artemis and Bizarro related on his instagram. I can't remember if the post was shared here.




And here's someone on Twitter who talked on Instagram with Lobdell, including this screenshot.




The girl in the yellow outfit looks like Tanya Spears aka Powergirl.

----------


## Jackalope89

So, the weird haircuts are gone, it looks like (I can understand why Biz would end up with a beard though), which is good. 

And yes, people want the Dark Trinity back together!

----------


## Arsenal

Biz better keep the beard.

----------


## Zaresh

> Two weeks ago Lobdell posted something Artemis and Bizarro related on his instagram. I can't remember if the post was shared here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here's someone on Twitter who talked on Instagram with Lobdell, including this screenshot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh, right. The annual is about to be out. Just in a few more weeks, right?




> So, the weird haircuts are gone, it looks like (I can understand why Biz would end up with a beard though), which is good. 
> 
> And yes, people want the Dark Trinity back together!


I took it the other way around: the whole issue is the report/story of their time in that other place (with chapters, maybe?), and the Rebirth look is from the first few weeks there. But now that I look at the whole picture, it's page 20 of 48 (I think), so maybe you're right.

----------


## Celgress

> That's so cute. 
> 
> Dexter Soy
> 
> _Red Hood and pup-pup showed up at my signing.. thanks for the pic @Alex_Antone_


LOL, priceless  :Cool:   :Big Grin:

----------


## Arsenal

> Oh, right. The annual is about to be out. Just in a few more weeks, right?
> 
> 
> 
> I took it the other way around: the whole issue is the report/story of their time in that other place (with chapters, maybe?), and the Rebirth look is from the first few weeks there. But now that I look at the whole picture, it's page 20 of 48 (I think), so, maybe you're right.


Comes out the 31st so in a week and a half.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

WHY THEY DIDN'T WENT WITH THIS IDEA?

----------


## Arsenal

That would've been dope. Definitely better than the one they went with.

----------


## Zaresh

> WHY THEY DIDN'T WENT WITH THIS IDEA?


The Question, in capitals. I like this logo a lot, honestly. But I guess it ties him too much to Roy, and certain fans wouldn't like that I guess.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I mean, DC is already doing that.

----------


## Darkcrusade25

Loved this idea and it was also a callback to Arkham Knight RH logo

----------


## Arsenal

Would've even gave them an easy in-universe reason for the costume change.

----------


## Aahz

> WHY THEY DIDN'T WENT WITH THIS IDEA?


Where is that from?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

The extras in the RH:Outlaw Requiem for an Archer TP

----------


## Sergard

The logo looks nice but it does not work in the long run. It would tie Jason even more to the batfamily and overdramatizes his friendship with Roy - a friendship that's still controversial for a lot of people. What if the next writer of Roy Harper decides to retcon Roy's friendship with Jason (and there is no doubt that Roy will return one day)? Then suddenly the logo is more than problematic.

The current logo is still the best of all options since it doesn't tie Jason to any other franchise.

----------


## Arsenal

The logo doesn’t have to be permanent. It’s just a short term thing anyway.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> The logo looks nice but it does not work in the long run. It would tie Jason even more to the batfamily and overdramatizes his friendship with Roy - a friendship that's still controversial for a lot of people. What if the next writer of Roy Harper decides to retcon Roy's friendship with Jason (and there is no doubt that Roy will return one day)? Then suddenly the logo is more than problematic.
> 
> The current logo is still the best of all options since it doesn't tie Jason to any other franchise.


Considering how hard DC is pushing the angle of "Roy Harper, Jason's best friend" that even _Bendis_ acknowledged. I see no issue with it.

----------


## G-Potion

> WHY THEY DIDN'T WENT WITH THIS IDEA?


Looks nice, though I can understand why they didn't go with it. I'm fine with the connection to Roy but the bat doesn't really fit the story direction.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

October and November solicits are out

RED HOOD: OUTLAW #39
written by SCOTT LOBDELL
art and cover by KENNETH ROCAFORT
variant cover by KARL MOSTERT
“Generation Outlaw” continues! Class is in session, and Red Hood’s students still have a lot to learn. With Doomed running amok, each villain-in-training decides to use the chaos in order to stake their claim as the one to beat. But while Red Hood tries to teach them a valuable lesson about power and responsibility, Doomed’s actions could, well, literally doom them all!
ON SALE 10.23.19
$3.99 US | 32 PAGES
FC | RATED T+
This issue will ship with two covers.
Please see the order form for details.



RED HOOD: OUTLAW VOL. 2: PRINCE OF GOTHAM TP
written by SCOTT LOBDELL
art by PETE WOODS and STEPHEN SEGOVIA
cover by CULLY HAMNER
The Red Hood becomes the Prince of Gotham, as he embarks on a hostile takeover of the Penguin’s Iceberg Lounge and Casino! But Jason Todd soon finds out that running Gotham City’s underworld is even more dangerous than it sounds—and things get even more complicated with the return of Essence, not to mention Penguin’s revenge plot. And as the “Year of the Villain” dawns, Lex Luthor approaches the Red Hood with the opportunity to train the next generation of super-villains! Collects RED HOOD: OUTLAW #32-36 and ANNUAL #3.
ON SALE 11.27.19
$16.99 US | 176 PAGES
FC | ISBN: 978-1-4012-9510-3

RED HOOD: OUTLAW #40
written by SCOTT LOBDELL
art by DAVID MESSINA
acetate cover by GUILLEM MARCH
variant cover by PHILIP TAN and MARC DEERING
After their first mission in the field, all the Outlaws want is to head back to the Block for some R&R. Unfortunately, no sooner do they get home than they find themselves under assault from Shay Veritas’ clones! It’s like Night of the Living Duplicates in there, and Red Hood is nowhere to be found. Is he teaching them a dangerous (but hopefully valuable) lesson with his absence, or is he dealing with something even bigger and more terrifying?
ON SALE 11.13.19
$3.99 US | 32 PAGES
FC | RATED T+
This issue will ship with two covers. Please see the order form for details.
Please note the acetate covers will be available on first printings only.




Variant:
https://imgur.com/D0tDFYq

EDIT: Here's Messina's blog in case you guys want to see his work

http://davidmessinart.blogspot.com/

----------


## Arsenal

I’m starting to wonder if we’ll see Jason, Artemis & Biz reunited in the annual only to separate to work on separate missions (Jason in Generation: Outlaw, Artemis & Biz on whatever they discover in the alternate dimension they’ve been trapped in)

----------


## Zaresh

I actually have started to think that Biz and Art may be back after the annual. Because  of issue #40 cover and the way the summary is written somehow.

Damn, that Year of the Villain logo is so freaking ugly. I feel like I'm looking at some fashion-of-their-time 90's cover somehow.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I did a post about the different editions of Death of The Family in Mexico for the FB fanpage. Give it a look if you want to know some trivia.

----------


## RedBird

02png

----------


## RedBird

hellredsky

----------


## RedBird

xylo_bee

----------


## RedBird

aya_uxu

----------


## RedBird

nockuth

----------


## RedBird

sferiolla

----------


## Sergard

@RedBird: Thanks for sharing all the beautiful artworks.  :Smile: 




Red Hood is on the Event Leviathan #5 cover.

----------


## Zaresh

> @RedBird: Thanks for sharing all the beautiful artworks. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Red Hood is on the Event Leviathan #5 cover.


Pretty cover.

Soooo... I guess it is Roy after all. And I was wrong and Jason's role in this event is big in the end.

Hmmm...

----------


## Sergard

> I actually have started to think that Biz and Art may be back after the annual. Because  of issue #40 cover and the way the summary is written somehow.
> 
> *Damn, that Year of the Villain logo is so freaking ugly. I feel like I'm looking at some fashion-of-their-time 90's cover somehow.*


Thanks. I thought I was the only one who doesn't like the cover. Especially when compared with the other acetate covers, the RH:O #40 cover is lacking finesse. 



Is David Messina the new artist for RH:O or is he only temporary like Rocafort?


Cem Iroz

----------


## Sergard

Cem Iroz

----------


## Restingvoice

> @RedBird: Thanks for sharing all the beautiful artworks. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Red Hood is on the Event Leviathan #5 cover.


That has got to be the most uncomfortable mask to wear




> Pretty cover.
> 
> Soooo... I guess it is Roy after all. 
> 
> Hmmm...


How do you figure it just from that?

----------


## Zaresh

> That has got to be the most uncomfortable mask to wear
> 
> 
> 
> How do you figure it just from that?


I don't know. Mostly a feel, to be honest. But that he's (meant to be) looking at them (kind of) through the mask, in cold, as if he? needs the mask to cold his perception about them. And after all, you can still see Oliver and Jason in there. I don't know who else would need to do or do that if not Roy, to be honest.

----------


## Zaresh

> Thanks. I thought I was the only one who doesn't like the cover. Especially when compared with the other acetate covers, the RH:O #40 cover is lacking finesse.



I don't know. All of them but Batgirl's give me that 90's feel I'm not crazy about, but the logo is especially offensive here somehow. The colouring makes me blink a bit too, maybe, but I've noticed the same problem with the others. Maybe they aimed for it, or an effect coming from the material (acetate), I don't know.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the aesthetics of that decade in some comics.

----------


## Sergard

Finalized version of the RH:O Annual 3 cover.

It only states Pollina and Firchow for the interior artwork but readdc also lists Pete Woods. So maybe we'll see the still missing panels from Woods' Twitter posts in this issue.

----------


## Jackalope89

Just bring the Dark Trinity back together!

----------


## Jackalope89



----------


## Sergard

> I don't know. Mostly a feel, to be honest. But that he's (meant to be) looking at them (kind of) through the mask, in cold, as if he? needs the mask to cold his perception about them. And after all, you can still see Oliver and Jason in there. I don't know who else would need to do or do that if not Roy, to be honest.


I first thought the cover shows potential suspects for Leviathan - Red Hood, Green Arrow, Lex Luthor and even Batman himself could theoretically still be Leviathan (Jason mentioned in Event Leviathan #2 that Bruce "used to fantasize about something like this happening"). But I have to admit that Superman would make no sense.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I first thought the cover shows potential suspects for Leviathan - Red Hood, Green Arrow, Lex Luthor and even Batman himself could theoretically still be Leviathan (Jason mentioned in Event Leviathan #2 that Bruce "used to fantasize about something like this happening"). But I have to admit that Superman would make no sense.


Especially with that event book where Leviathan frees Clark from being tied to a chair with Kryptonite strapped to is chest.

----------


## Arsenal

So apparently this is a thing that happened in the same AMA IG story thing he previewed art from the annual. Make of it what you will.
D2A0F1D3-AF32-432C-855B-4080E07EEBB3.jpg

He also expressed interest in exploring Creeper’s and Artemis’ past but doesn’t seem like TPTB are on board.

----------


## Sergard

DSA





Gang

----------


## Sergard

Curran Walters _Batman & Robin_

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> So apparently this is a thing that happened in the same AMA IG story thing he previewed art from the annual. Make of it what you will.
> D2A0F1D3-AF32-432C-855B-4080E07EEBB3.jpg
> 
> He also expressed interest in exploring Creeper’s and Artemis’ past but doesn’t seem like TPTB are on board.


Was this via DMs or something? Because there's nothing of the like on his instagram.

----------


## Arsenal

> Was this via DMs or something? Because there's nothing of the like on his instagram.


It’s a couple days old so it’s probably not there anymore. Only reason I even saw it was because I stumbled upon it on accident so unfortunately I can’t even verify if it’s legit or not. Normally I wouldn’t of even bothered to post if it was an isolated thing but since it was posted along with shots of him answering other RH stuff (Response to a question about Roy, video of him responding to a question about the white streak, the creeper & Artemis history thing, and him previewing art from the annual) I figure there’s a chance it might be legit.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

The art from the annual is still there, in fact, you can still see posts from last year. So either that was via DMs or it was deleted. Can you share the link where did you find the stuff in the first place?

----------


## Arsenal

> The art from the annual is still there, in fact, you can still see posts from last year. So either that was via DMs or it was deleted. Can you share the link where did you find the stuff in the first place?


Sure. Found the thread here. Might be bullshit but the rest of it looks legit so ...

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I looked around. It is legit. 

Whether what he says will happen or not, is a different matter entirely though.

----------


## Arsenal

https://soundcloud.com/user-44237172...dell-interview

Red Hood talk starts at 47:45ish mark 

Notable highlights. Spoilers for upcoming issues below. 
 He has material up to issue 50 planned. He'll start working on what comes next around issue 47ish Expanding the Outlaws
- has wanted to do it for years but always gets reeled back in- From issue 43 to 50, he's planning/hoping to temporarily expand the outlaws beyond the core 3 Details on the Biz and Artemis's status
- The journey home lasts on the annual + the subplot for 3 issues- after that, they have a proper reunion (so it should happen in issue 40) Lobdell pitched a story about Chesire finding Roy's body and throwing him in the Lazrus pit. Was based on the idea of them being the Bonnie and Clyde of the DCU. Reception was mixed. Lobdell plans to stay on the book until it's no longer fun anymore Never wants the Outlaw book to feel like its expected to be limited to one specific thing (Can only do street level stuff or space stuff, etc.) YOTV 
- Jason's main focus is to keep the kids alive. Doesn't care if they are gonna be heroes or villain- 5 of the 6 kids he's training are OC- He gave some background info on 2 of them (DNA and Ba(b?)e in arms) Lobdell's not allowed to comment on Jason's involvement in Event: Leviathan The book's title is going back to RHATO soon Editorial isn't interested in the white streak.

----------


## G-Potion

> https://soundcloud.com/user-44237172...dell-interview
> 
> Red Hood talk starts at 47:45ish mark 
> 
> Notable highlights. Spoilers for upcoming issues below. 
>  He has material up to issue 50 planned. He'll start working on what comes next around issue 47ish Expanding the Outlaws
> - has wanted to do it for years but always gets reeled back in- From issue 43 to 50, he's planning/hoping to temporarily expand the outlaws beyond the core 3 Details on the Biz and Artemis's status
> - The journey home lasts on the annual + the subplot for 3 issues- after that, they have a proper reunion (so it should happen in issue 40) Lobdell pitched a story about Chesire finding Roy's body and throwing him in the Lazrus pit. Was based on the idea of them being the Bonnie and Clyde of the DCU. Reception was mixed. Lobdell plans to stay on the book until it's no longer fun anymore Never wants the Outlaw book to feel like its expected to be limited to one specific thing (Can only do street level stuff or space stuff, etc.) YOTV 
> - Jason's main focus is to keep the kids alive. Doesn't care if they are gonna be heroes or villain- 5 of the 6 kids he's training are OC- He gave some background info on 2 of them (DNA and Ba(b?)e in arms) Lobdell's not allowed to comment on Jason's involvement in Event: Leviathan The book's title is going back to RHATO soon Editorial isn't interested in the white streak.


Thanks for the info! Good to hear that the book might go beyond 50 and that Lobdell's still having fun with it.  :Smile:

----------


## Jackalope89

Editorial may not be interested in the white streak, but a lot of the fandom is (most fanfics, for instance, include the white streak).

And glad to see him looking to expand the roster outside of the core 3. Not entirely sure _who_ would be added, but there's a lot of potential.

Also good to see when we can expect to see more of Biz and Artemis.

----------


## Zaresh

> https://soundcloud.com/user-44237172...dell-interview
> 
> Red Hood talk starts at 47:45ish mark 
> 
> Notable highlights. Spoilers for upcoming issues below. 
>  He has material up to issue 50 planned. He'll start working on what comes next around issue 47ish Expanding the Outlaws
> - has wanted to do it for years but always gets reeled back in- From issue 43 to 50, he's planning/hoping to temporarily expand the outlaws beyond the core 3 Details on the Biz and Artemis's status
> - The journey home lasts on the annual + the subplot for 3 issues- after that, they have a proper reunion (so it should happen in issue 40) Lobdell pitched a story about Chesire finding Roy's body and throwing him in the Lazrus pit. Was based on the idea of them being the Bonnie and Clyde of the DCU. Reception was mixed. Lobdell plans to stay on the book until it's no longer fun anymore Never wants the Outlaw book to feel like its expected to be limited to one specific thing (Can only do street level stuff or space stuff, etc.) YOTV 
> - Jason's main focus is to keep the kids alive. Doesn't care if they are gonna be heroes or villain- 5 of the 6 kids he's training are OC- He gave some background info on 2 of them (DNA and Ba(b?)e in arms) Lobdell's not allowed to comment on Jason's involvement in Event: Leviathan The book's title is going back to RHATO soon Editorial isn't interested in the white streak.


Well, I guess I guessed some things right for once! I meant about when Art and Biz will come back. But that one was easy, just by looking at the latest solicits. So, gueeeeez, not much of a Sherlock I am ;___D.

Nice to hear that he wants to stay in the book as far as he's having fun. It means that, so far, he's nott writing just because it's only a job. Motivation is important.

Nice to hear, too, that he wants the book to be varied: that way the book dosen't stay stale, at risk of being cancelled because he runs out of ideas for certain themes or there is no other writer that can come with a good one. On the other hand, certain fans won't like it, because they really, really want  the book to focus in a kind of stories alone (street level ones). I think, with the potential Jason bears with himself, it's like asking for Cap America to only have spy stories, for example (I know there is not real comparition in their popularity, but Cap, too, is a character that allows a lot of different genres). A true pulp hero  lives a varied range of adventures, and Jason feels like on at his core. Touching different genres would fin his nature. But maybe making the change of to be more spaced would help too.

Him having material prepared up to issue 50 gives me hope in the book not being cancelled for a while.

So it's not a straigh Thunderbolts-esque situatikn with the kids. But Jason caring for kids. Ok, I like it too.
A pity about the white streak, but well, not really a problem. They probably don't want him to look old: his design for Mother Panic had it I think, but he was older too.

----------


## Sergard

Some fun artwork from 2013 by vaneda vireak

----------


## Sergard

second part

----------


## Sergard

third and final part

----------


## Sergard

saichich







Fade

----------


## RedBird

More from sferiolla

----------


## Sergard

> https://soundcloud.com/user-44237172...dell-interview
> 
> Red Hood talk starts at 47:45ish mark 
> 
> Notable highlights. Spoilers for upcoming issues below. 
>  He has material up to issue 50 planned. He'll start working on what comes next around issue 47ish Expanding the Outlaws
> - has wanted to do it for years but always gets reeled back in- From issue 43 to 50, he's planning/hoping to temporarily expand the outlaws beyond the core 3 Details on the Biz and Artemis's status
> - The journey home lasts on the annual + the subplot for 3 issues- after that, they have a proper reunion (so it should happen in issue 40) Lobdell pitched a story about Chesire finding Roy's body and throwing him in the Lazrus pit. Was based on the idea of them being the Bonnie and Clyde of the DCU. Reception was mixed. Lobdell plans to stay on the book until it's no longer fun anymore Never wants the Outlaw book to feel like its expected to be limited to one specific thing (Can only do street level stuff or space stuff, etc.) YOTV 
> - Jason's main focus is to keep the kids alive. Doesn't care if they are gonna be heroes or villain- 5 of the 6 kids he's training are OC- He gave some background info on 2 of them (DNA and Ba(b?)e in arms) Lobdell's not allowed to comment on Jason's involvement in Event: Leviathan The book's title is going back to RHATO soon Editorial isn't interested in the white streak.


Maybe I read too much into the fact that Lobdell even pitched a story about Roy's resurrection but doesn't that indicate that DC has no plans to bring Roy and the other HiC victims back?
Otherwise there wouldn't have been any need for Lobdell to pitch something in the first place (I don't like the pitch. I thought Lobdell would somehow use Godspeed). And based on that, Roy probably isn't Leviathan either.

I'd like to hear the reasoning of editorial why they aren't interested in the white streak. And don't tell me that Jason looks too old with it. It's the artist's fault if Jason looks too old and not the fault of the white streak.

Expanding the Outlaws is fine for me, but I'm also glad that Lobdell was "reeled back in" when he tried to add the Creeper. Creeper looks like the Joker - and I don't want someone like that around Jason all the time. There are enough other DC characters that better fit the team and the overall theme of a family of misfits/outcasts.

Who's the sixth kid? RH:O #37 only shows five kids (including the baby) and #38 also only mentions Reiser/Doomed and "DNA, Cloud Nine, Devour and the enigmatic Babe in Arms". Am I missing someone?

----------


## Arsenal

Speaking of expanding the Outlaws, who do y’all think and who do y’all want added to the team?

Right off the bat, both Roy & Kori are both unlikely since Roy is dead and Editorial won’t let Lobdell use Starfire while she’s in JL:O.

----------


## Zaresh

Maybe Leviathan is Jason after all, from another universe.

Honestly, I don't know who could be at this point. It they're not Roy, who seems to be a pretty clear suspect, I'm open to anyone else being them. Someone who's connected to the bats and the arrows and also a bit to the supes somehow, and has been hurt by their association with them. I'm clueless.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Sam Lane?

Bendis seems to be under the impression he's freaking Nick Fury and not just Thunderbolt Ross.

----------


## Zaresh

> Sam Lane?
> 
> Bendis seems to be under the impression he's freaking Nick Fury and not just Thunderbolt Ross.


He doesn't have the slightest link to Barbara, not even in a threedegree proximity.  Hmmm... But at least, Lois and Clark role would made sense. Maybe it's someone from the future? And Bendis wants to link books (ha ha ha, yes, definitely, Lane is Ross, ha!). I don't know. Maybe it's a totally new OC, but I hope it's not.

In any case, eh, I guess we can drop this Earth Roy from the suspects list I guess.

Could be fun, too, if it's an arrow but a different one, like Connor. Him as suspect would have some weak points too, but he could be a nice surprise.

(I wasn't interested in this event, but darn it, I guess I cannot resist a mystery waiting to be solved)

----------


## JasonTodd428

@Sergard: Loved the "Family Photos" art. I love seeing things like this in fanart. 

Also I don't think the fact that Lobdell pitched a Roy resurrection story automatically means that Roy can't be Leviathan. Nor do I believe that the reason Lobdell pitched the idea was because there are no plans in place to bring Roy back. This is comics we're talking about and the dead come back to life with alarming regularity these days so I personally find it unlikely that they will leave Roy dead for to long and actually his being Leviathan would return him to life in a big and very noticeable way. It could also be a case of Bendis just ignoring what's occurred with Roy in recent times and using him in this story without caring what happened beforehand. Bendis does have a habit of ignoring events in a characters history just to make them fit into whatever story he's telling. I guess we'll see what happens though. I could be totally off the mark with my assumptions.

----------


## Aahz

My guess for Leviathan is still "Titans of Tomorrow Tim".

----------


## Arsenal

Do you think Artemis & Bizarro will stumble upon Ma Gunn during their journey home?

----------


## Sergard

> Do you think Artemis & Bizarro will stumble upon Ma Gunn during their journey home?


I hope so. Bizarro has put her into a bottle if I remember correctly, and I don't think Ma Gunn can get out by her own.



onipilot





Si0g0






GOTHOM BOLD Fanzine contribution by gothamtwinks (sneak peek)

----------


## adrikito

> 


I am not interested in Jason students.. I need them again together..

Fortunatelly I saw the preview.. 6 MONTHS without Artemis and Bizarro.. Poor Jason..

----------


## Sergard

> I am not interested in Jason students.. I need them again together..
> 
> Fortunatelly I saw the preview.. 6 MONTHS without Artemis and Bizarro.. Poor Jason..


Good thing that Artemis never saw Jason's buzzcut.
But Bizarro has grown an awesome beard - I hope the beard stays and that Biz gets a new outfit. The Superman overall doesn't really work with a beard and his current Mad Max outfit also looks a little boring in the long run.

----------


## adrikito

> https://soundcloud.com/user-44237172...dell-interview
> [*] Lobdell plans to stay on the book until it's no longer fun anymore


I hope that Artemis and Bizarro return with Jason before that.




> Good thing that Artemis never saw Jason's buzzcut.
> But Bizarro has grown an awesome beard - I hope the beard stays and that Biz gets a new outfit. The Superman overall doesn't really work with a beard and his current Mad Max outfit also looks a little boring in the long run.


I liked the SMART BIZARRO.. I think that I would accept one Bizarro with Beard too..

Red Hood Outlaws Bizarro Artemis.jpg

----------


## Sergard

02png

----------


## Sergard

And the fourth and last part.

----------


## G-Potion

> And the fourth and last part.


Whyyyy it was supposed to be funny ;_;
Really powerful rendering though.

----------


## Sergard

> Whyyyy it was supposed to be funny ;_;
> Really powerful rendering though.


Well, the original comic version didn't end funny either.
(The artist did amazing with the background details).

----------


## RedBird

> And the fourth and last part.


Beautiful, I've really been enjoying this artists work, '02PNG', their rendering is always lovely, and I really like the lighting and limited colour palette of this piece, real moody.

----------


## RedBird

kotorikurama

_Shoot_

----------


## RedBird

Also check out these Under The Red Hood covers by Lee Inhyuk.
Looks like an alternate cover. 

[img]https://cdna.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/019/633/272/large/inhyuk-lee-batman-under-the-red-hood.jpg?1564366818[/img]

[img]https://cdna.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/019/633/268/large/inhyuk-lee-batman-under-the-red-hood.jpg?1564366813[/img]

[img]https://cdnb.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/019/633/271/large/inhyuk-lee-batman-under-the-red-hood.jpg?1564366816[/img]

----------


## RedBird

[img]https://cdna.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/019/633/590/large/inhyuk-lee-batman-under-the-red-hood-2.jpg?1564368704[/img]

----------


## RedBird

Process Video

----------


## RedBird

Also whilst were here, there's also another draft of what may have been the DCeased #2 cover by Lee Inhyuk

[img]https://cdnb.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/017/928/379/large/inhyuk-lee-dceased-2-b.jpg?1557878587[/img]

[img]https://cdna.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/017/928/408/large/inhyuk-lee-dceased-2.jpg?1557878697[/img]

[img]https://cdna.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/017/928/378/large/inhyuk-lee-dceased-2-a.jpg?1557878580[/img]

The alt cover with the slightly blue overlay as opposed to the yellow overlay is also in the link.

----------


## RedBird

lightningstrikes-art

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> [img]https://cdna.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/019/633/590/large/inhyuk-lee-batman-under-the-red-hood-2.jpg?1564368704[/img]


Pretty cool cover, although it looks like Jason has a luchador mask rather than his usual helmet.

----------


## Sergard

This cover is a cool poster.

[IMG]https://cdnb.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/019/633/267/large/inhyuk-lee-batman-under-the-red-hood.jpg?1564366810[/IMG]

DC should publish an artbook with InHyuk Lee's covers and artworks.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Aw, is exclusive for a korean event and you have to buy the TPB. 

Is mind-boggling how DC has failed to capitalize on making posters out of their covers. Probably because that's what Marvel does.

----------


## Sergard

> Aw, is exclusive for a korean event and you have to buy the TPB. 
> 
> Is mind-boggling how DC has failed to capitalize on making posters out of their covers. Probably because that's what Marvel does.


DC has released a STANLEY “ARTGERM” LAU poster portfolio last month. (Also: "_Watch for upcoming POSTER PORTFOLIOS featuring the art of Jim Lee, Frank Cho and more!_")

And they'll release a YotV poster portfolio in October. So I think DC is realizing that posters and artworks are a gold mine.



Oh, I like that. xD



(source)

----------


## Sergard

> Speaking of expanding the Outlaws, who do y’all think and who do y’all want added to the team?
> 
> Right off the bat, both Roy & Kori are both unlikely since Roy is dead and Editorial won’t let Lobdell use Starfire while she’s in JL:O.


I like Starfire on JL:O. Her character is great for space adventures. And I still want Roy back - but with his own solo, not as a part of the Outlaws team. They could make Roy a secret agent/spy and also bring Lian back - a solo about a single dad spy. I would read that.

For the Outlaws team: besides the dark trinity of Jason, Artemis and Bizarro I'd like to add Crux, Eddie Bloomberg/Red Devil and Jericho and Rose Wilson.
And for reoccurring guest appearances I want Connor Hawke (bring him back, DC, god dammit!), Slade Wilson, Silencer, Bunker (Bunker deserves his own mini series at least too), Harvey Bullock, Killer Croc, the Immortal Men - and probably some more that I can't remember right now because it's late and I'm tired. But there are so many cool characters in the DC universe that don't get used or don't get used enough.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I like Starfire on JL:O. Her character is great for space adventures. And I still want Roy back - but with his own solo, not as a part of the Outlaws team. They could make Roy a secret agent/spy and also bring Lian back - a solo about a single dad spy. I would read that.
> 
> For the Outlaws team: besides the dark trinity of Jason, Artemis and Bizarro I'd like to add Crux, Eddie Bloomberg/Red Devil and Jericho and Rose Wilson.
> And for reoccurring guest appearances I want Connor Hawke (bring him back, DC, god dammit!), Slade Wilson, Silencer, Bunker (Bunker deserves his own mini series at least too), Harvey Bullock, Killer Croc, the Immortal Men - and probably some more that I can't remember right now because it's late and I'm tired. But there are so many cool characters in the DC universe that don't get used or don't get used enough.


Red Devil at least has a history with Jason that could certainly be explored (being an old pen pal), and the Wilson siblings, Rose especially, errs more in the gray area like Jason, then full on "goody two shoes" so to speak. 

The rest... I don't see Bunker coming back anytime soon. Silencer has a family to worry about first, before even considering working with a team. Slade mainly works alone. Killer Croc would work better in a Roy series (and I agree about bringing Lian back, and Roy being a single dad, but with his friends dropping by to check up on him). 

The Outlaws need people that fit their group, the "black sheep", so to speak. Biz being a clone of Supes, Artemis feeling overshadowed by Diana, and Jason... Well, we know about Jason.

----------


## Zaresh

> I like Starfire on JL:O. Her character is great for space adventures. And I still want Roy back - but with his own solo, not as a part of the Outlaws team. They could make Roy a secret agent/spy and also bring Lian back - a solo about a single dad spy. I would read that.
> 
> For the Outlaws team: besides the dark trinity of Jason, Artemis and Bizarro I'd like to add Crux, Eddie Bloomberg/Red Devil and Jericho and Rose Wilson.
> And for reoccurring guest appearances I want Connor Hawke (bring him back, DC, god dammit!), Slade Wilson, Silencer, Bunker (Bunker deserves his own mini series at least too), Harvey Bullock, Killer Croc, the Immortal Men - and probably some more that I can't remember right now because it's late and I'm tired. But there are so many cool characters in the DC universe that don't get used or don't get used enough.


I don't know about Jericho. Joseph is a pretty neat, very heroic antihero, but as far as I know, he's more associated with Dick. But, eh, with all the bad stuff that keeps happening to him (xd), he could be a great addition to the team, I bet (but I don't think he would work with Jason comfortably. He's the softest of the Wilsons, iirc). I guess Rose too has similar problems, but I don't know why, I see her as more of a free agent, a character that keeps eluding a team/generation (well, I also see her way less heroic), and is mostly associated with her root character's (Slade's) cast. She's probably more suitable for the Outlaws but, eh, I will be honest: I don't like her that much (probably because I've read her in her more ax-crazy takes).

Connor Hawke could be nice too, but like Joey, he's quite heroic as a character as far as I know; so, I don't know. On the other hand, it could bring to the table some interesting stories, because he's or should still be (in this new continuity) Oliver's blood son, contrasting to Roy, when he's a complete stranger to probably the whole of the current hero community, in contrast to Roy as well. Hmmm...

Slade is too big of a character to add him as a regular in any book that isn't his own, I guess. Silencer could work going by what I know about her, but I suspect they're going to let her aside, by herself, or add her to the League and so tying her to Batman (because Batman sells, even if he doesn't sell as well as before). Bullock and Croc are too tied to Gotham to be regulars outside stories in that place (well, Croc was in the SS, right? I guess he could work), but I definitely would love them as additions to Jason's own cast of regulars. Eddie is dead, but that can be easily fixed; count me in. And I know nothing about the Immortal Men, so "shrugs", I guess, sure, why not.

We need a doctor for the cast, and an Alfred of any sorts (but I guess we could let Ma Gunn or her granddaughter fill that role). Some trickster, some magician or thief, could be also a nice addition. And someone from the media, some blogger or some journalist. Crux or some other could be the scientist / tech guy. And let's go crazy, and add a lawyer, regular civilian in, because I want to see what happens (someone has to keep Jason's public façade afloat).

----------


## Arsenal

Wouldn’t mind Essence and/or Rose joining the team. Bronze Tiger or Graystone could be options if you wanna pull from Tynion’s RHATO run.


I’d prefer avoiding the “Justice League but Dark/ Justice League:Outlaw” where the team is primarily made up of “darker” (for a lack of a better word) versions of the big 7. The team already has 2 powerhouses in Artemis & Biz so some more mid to low level would help round out the team. 

Unless you want the team to be the Jason Todd protection squad where 5 super powerful people focus on keeping him and themselves alive in whatever crazy situation he gets them into.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Chances are that Lobdell will simply expand upon the idea of "Dark" versions of great DCU heroes and make in essence, an antihero mirror of the JL. But this is also limited to those smaller characters no one else is using, so I doubt there's a chance of Jericho or Rose ever joining.

----------


## Zaresh

> Wouldn’t mind Essence and/or Rose joining the team. Bronze Tiger or Graystone could be options if you wanna pull from Tynion’s RHATO run.
> 
> 
> I’d prefer avoiding the “Justice League but Dark/ Justice League:Outlaw” where the team is primarily made up of “darker” (for a lack of a better word) versions of the big 7.


Mmmm, in my case, I'm really not that much invested in a 1 on 1 JL team either, honestly. I'm getting used to have a slightly revolving door cast at this point; and also, because they're not carboon copies of the JL members, putting analogues that would work together (showing some chemistry, creating a nice dynamic) is no easy task to achieve. I'd rather have a team that works well but is not a full analogous. But then, the only JL team I've really enjoyed to thia day was the JLI, so maybe I don't like the cast of the official league as a team themselves.

----------


## Arsenal

Deathstroke is supposed to end at 50 last I heard with nobody lined up for a relaunch so it is possible a Wilson could pop in. Probably not full time but maybe for an arc or 2.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Nah. Lobdell tried it during the first Volume and was vetoed by editorial. I see nothing to think they've eased their stance since then.

----------


## Arsenal

> Nah. Lobdell tried it during the first Volume and was vetoed by editorial. I see nothing to think they've eased their stance since then.


Huh. Wasn’t aware of that.

----------


## Sergard

Paz




Paz




Paz

----------


## Sergard

wickedkaren





dontots

----------


## Sergard

satan_jnr



satan_jnr



satan_jnr

----------


## Sergard

Mal Banx Art





Badlemonade (combination of Red Hood and Arkham Knight)

----------


## Sergard

Vhyrel




Medli45




Medli45

----------


## Sergard

Julia Kvitkovskaya




Julia Kvitkovskaya



Julia Kvitkovskaya

----------


## Sergard

Julia Kvitkovskaya




Julia Kvitkovskaya

----------


## Sergard

The following artworks are from May, and normally I check Zumaon's twitter page regularly because I love their style. But I can't remember this little Wolf!Jason and Tim interaction. So sorry if this is a double post.

zumaon

----------


## G-Potion

> Julia Kvitkovskaya
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Julia Kvitkovskaya


Awesome! He even has a flower haha.

----------


## Zaresh

> Julia Kvitkovskaya
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Julia Kvitkovskaya


A ha ha ha ha ha. Oh, so cute. And funny. Aw.

----------


## Jackalope89

I demand at least an Elseworlds where uncle Jason is a thing; uncle to Mar'i, Lian, whatever offspring Tim and Damian have, etc. He would be an awesome uncle.

----------


## J. D. Guy

Giant post incoming.





> https://soundcloud.com/user-44237172...dell-interview
> 
> Red Hood talk starts at 47:45ish mark 
> 
> Notable highlights. Spoilers for upcoming issues below. 
>  He has material up to issue 50 planned. He'll start working on what comes next around issue 47ish Expanding the Outlaws
> - has wanted to do it for years but always gets reeled back in- From issue 43 to 50, he's planning/hoping to temporarily expand the outlaws beyond the core 3 Details on the Biz and Artemis's status
> - The journey home lasts on the annual + the subplot for 3 issues- after that, they have a proper reunion (so it should happen in issue 40) Lobdell pitched a story about Chesire finding Roy's body and throwing him in the Lazrus pit. Was based on the idea of them being the Bonnie and Clyde of the DCU. Reception was mixed. Lobdell plans to stay on the book until it's no longer fun anymore Never wants the Outlaw book to feel like its expected to be limited to one specific thing (Can only do street level stuff or space stuff, etc.) YOTV 
> - Jason's main focus is to keep the kids alive. Doesn't care if they are gonna be heroes or villain- 5 of the 6 kids he's training are OC- He gave some background info on 2 of them (DNA and Ba(b?)e in arms) Lobdell's not allowed to comment on Jason's involvement in Event: Leviathan The book's title is going back to RHATO soon Editorial isn't interested in the white streak.


Thanks for posting the highlights!  :Big Grin:  Some of my takeaways:

Also good to know that material that far ahead is planned. So we know we're in it for a year more, in the least. By extension, I'm happy to hear Lobdell's in it for the long haul.

I'd love for an Outlaws expansion! In fact, it feels like we always get teased new party members, but then it doesn't happen or something happens that "reneges" on the expansion. I hope it sticks, though, because I'd love for more cool, obscure characters (including some of Lobdell's own) to join Jason's family. I'm still not fond of the reality that Crux isn't a mainstay yet, after all of this time, as an example. 

Lobdell bringing Roy back this way would be kind of funny. But also cool. And I'm just enamored with Lobdell's dedication to the character and to the Roy-Jason relationship. Sad about the implications from that "mixed reception" from his bosses.

I'm actually looking forward to the upcoming arc, so happy to have info on it. (I've mentioned or implied this before, but I really miss Doomed and what Lobdell was originally going for, so I'm happy to see Lobdell write Reiser again, even with the apparently changed context of the character's circumstances and characterization.) From what was said here, Jason's not really trying to shape/be a (secret) positive influence to these kids, which is kind of odd. Not too odd, technically, but at the same time, it feels more detached then need be for Jason. Then again, that just might be my interpretation and/or just what was said here and how it was said. It might develop differently enough in practice.

I'm also pleased to know that Lobdell isn't going to allow the book to limit itself, and its characters by extension, in one niche of story-telling. It keep things fresh, allows Lobdell to do likewise, and allows different kinds of stories to be told with characters who couldn't easily see the light of day otherwise, not to mention putting characters in scenarios they'd not get to be in otherwise. Jason going to space is something we'd have never gotten if we were to limit the stories he could be in to "gritty revenge street stories" or some-such.

Lastly, I'm actually glad that the white streak thing is a non-relevance with editorial. Like, it's weird for me to feel this way over something so minute and petty (especially as someone who appreciates as much physical differentiation between Dick, Jason, Tim, and Damian as possible), but I don't like that white steak. Moreover, I'm not a fan of how obsessive certain parts of Jason's fandom are over it, especially from the Tumblr side. So, yeah...





> Speaking of expanding the Outlaws, who do yall think and who do yall want added to the team?
> 
> Right off the bat, both Roy & Kori are both unlikely since Roy is dead and Editorial wont let Lobdell use Starfire while shes in JL:O.





> I like Starfire on JL:O. Her character is great for space adventures. And I still want Roy back - but with his own solo, not as a part of the Outlaws team. They could make Roy a secret agent/spy and also bring Lian back - a solo about a single dad spy. I would read that.
> 
> For the Outlaws team: besides the dark trinity of Jason, Artemis and Bizarro I'd like to add Crux, Eddie Bloomberg/Red Devil and Jericho and Rose Wilson.
> And for reoccurring guest appearances I want Connor Hawke (bring him back, DC, god dammit!), Slade Wilson, Silencer, Bunker (Bunker deserves his own mini series at least too), Harvey Bullock, Killer Croc, the Immortal Men - and probably some more that I can't remember right now because it's late and I'm tired. But there are so many cool characters in the DC universe that don't get used or don't get used enough.


Among new expandee choices, I like some of the ideas in Sergard's post. 


For me, Crux is a no-brainer. In my opinion, it should be no-contest that's he part of the main team. I'd also love Eddie Bloomberg/Red Devil. Guy got the short end of the stick during his time, and never got the resurrection and re-powering he was supposed to. He's a cool character and concept, though (in Western fiction, you don't see many heroic characters who go out of their way to seek power, especially non-tech-based power, get it _and_ use it heroically, and _not_ get demonized by the story in some way for having done so), and I'd love to see him fit into Jason's found family of Outlaws. (Or to be used again in general, really.)

For Joseph and Connor, they'd definitely be fun characters to try out. As far as them being "not dark enough", that's not really an issue. Most would say the same for Kori and Roy, but they fit in and bonded quite nicely with Jason and his adventures over time. And Joey's kind of gone dark himself under Priest's pen. I wouldn't mind seeing someone else write the character for a change of pace, to be honest (didn't realize Priest's Deathstroke was ending, tho).

Connor would be cool not only to get him out of limbo, but also because his and Jason's differences, as well as his and Roy's, would make for prime story and interaction material. It'd be worth exploring that interaction, showcasing how they become friends in the process in spite of their differences (as what came to be with Roy and Jason).

Rose would be cool based on how, like Crux, she was teased as a new member that never was. Bunker joining full time would be sweet. And anything for more of the Immortal Men, especially Caden Park. I'd also love for Reiser to become more permanent, but that's pure fanboy greed right there, I'll freely admit. 

Most of Segard's other picks are iffy or not to my preference. I can see Jericho or Rose, but not Slade himself. Same for Killer Croc. Silencer? Dunno, really. And Harvey Bullock on a permanent basis? Can't really see it, myself. The occasional Gotham-relevant guest appearance, sure, but nothing more fixed then that.

This pick was mentioned before, I think, but I'd be up for Godspeed/August Heart to join. Williamson does seem to have long-term plans for the character, but not knowing what those are or when they'll come to fruition, I'd love for the character to have a more permanent home with more consistent showcasing and interactions then he is afforded in _The Flash_. Jason and August gaining an understanding would be just the best, and I'd love for someone to finally delve deeper into who and what August is on the inside, beyond surface-level interactions/reactions with whatever the current story is. (Who August's family is, his ethnicity, who his brother was, how close were they that August would be so deeply traumatized by his loss even years later, whether or not he has feelings for Barry beyond friendship, and other little things Williamson has teased about his character that warrant time exploring them in a more concentrated fashion.)

Barring that, I'd also like to see how Lobdell would handle a resurrected/etc. Daniel West/Reverse Flash. Similar to August, there's a lot of nuance that can be mined for interactions and stories from that character. This could even eventually tie-into Wallace/Kid Flash's character, too. A lot of good stuff possible there. Plus, I'm biased and really like Daniel's character, and his Reverse Flash look is pure unadulterated awesome, in my opinion, especially his Red and Black one.


On the whole, coming from someone who grew to care for a non-entity like Duela Dent/Joker's Daughter thanks to Lobdell's storytelling capabilities, I'm more or less okay and open to whomever joins, so long as it's permanent and treated with the same kind of respect-bonds that Jason/Roy/Kori, Jason/Roy/(and even Duela?), and Jason/Artemis/Bizarro have.

----------


## Zaresh

It's true that Priest gave Joey harder, drier, even meaner personality traits; but I think he's still too tied to the Titans and too heroic to work fine as a member of the Outlaws (but I am totally in for him joining). And it's true, as was already mentioned, that he's a "big" character and chances are he's not allowed by editorial. Connor, I could see them though. He's nowhere now, in limbo, and even if he was a main character for a while, it's still "small," I guess.

From the flash family, last time I read that book, Goodspeed was a pretty straight forward villain (hurting innocents and all); but that was a year and half ago and I was told he changed? In any case, yep; seems like he's out of the list if he's still in someone else's plams. Daniel West could be cool; he has enought heroic traits as far as I know, but he's still dead right? And bringing him back in this book could feel kind of rude for the current kid flash fans. What about Pied Piper?

----------


## Sergard

Dexter Soy "_Early drawings/design of Artemis and Bizarro before we started RHatO rebirth_"

----------


## Sergard

There is a #jayjaychallenge going on. The challenge was started by the artist Fade. The challenge lasts one week (7/29 ~ 8/4) and fan artists and writers are welcomed to create some work with two Jason Todds. So here are some contributions:

nockuth




Whispering Imp




no_CH_ka

----------


## Sergard

inihiu






nockuth (artwork from 2018 re-shared)

----------


## Zaresh

> There is a #jayjaychallenge going on. The challenge was started by the artist Fade. The challenge lasts one week (7/29 ~ 8/4) and fan artists and writers are welcomed to create some work with two Jason Todds. So here are some contributions:
> 
> nockuth
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whispering Imp
> 
> ...


Hey, I think I may take part in this challenge. I have a nice idea for this. I wonder if I'll be in time. Probably will try for digital colouring after pencilling my pic, for the sake of being faster.

----------


## Sergard

Little Batman: Under the (Red) Hood reference on the Event Leviathan #3 cover.

----------


## Sergard

JJMK #jayjaychallenge





Fade




Dexter Soy _WIP by @Nikko.industries_

----------


## Sergard

iggy (sneak peek of their contribution to the Batfam Fashion Zine Gotham Bold)





iggy

----------


## Sergard

Well, this didn't take long. Here's a Jason and Caden (from RHatO Annual #3) fanart by zumaon.





42jpg

----------


## Sergard

Wizyakuza Artwork

----------


## JasonTodd428

According to a thread in the Superman forum here the next issue of Leviathan deals with the Red Hood fallout. (Here's the link to the podcast this was said at. https://twitter.com/johnwordballoon/...21885608693761) So I suppose we'll know for certain after this issue whether or not Jason is Leviathan but with all the push this is being given it still feels to me like a massive red herring especially with the text on the cover of the next issue being a UtRH reference and all. What do you guys think?

Edit: Also I'm loving all those fan arts so keep em coming.

----------


## Arsenal

Jason is Levianthan's Red Hooded Herring.

----------


## Sergard

> According to a thread in the Superman forum here the next issue of Leviathan deals with the Red Hood fallout. (Here's the link to the podcast this was said at. https://twitter.com/johnwordballoon/...21885608693761) So I suppose we'll know for certain after this issue whether or not Jason is Leviathan but with all the push this is being given it still feels to me like a massive red herring especially with the text on the cover of the next issue being a UtRH reference and all. What do you guys think?
> 
> Edit: Also I'm loving all those fan arts so keep em coming.


The link isn't working for me but I think it's this podcast, or? And I do hope that Event Leviathan #3 crosses Jason off the suspect list. The story is only six issues long. At some point, this group of detectives should start to look for the real face behind Leviathan. There are already so many fan theories - let's see if someone hits the jackpot.




Your wish is my command.  :Wink: 

nockuth (#jayjaychallenge)




Andy

----------


## Jackalope89

For a group of supposedly the best detectives (why Plastic Man and Green Arrow are there, I don't know), they sure were duped into believing it was Jason pretty easily.

----------


## Sergard

Does anyone own the DC Comics Ultimate Character Guide New Edition (2019)? I've only found screenshots on Twitter and I wonder if anyone at DC took the time to proof-read the book for consistency.

Dick



Jason



Tim

----------


## Sergard

Damian




Why is Tim a crime fighter and Damian a super hero - and Dick and Jason are vigilantes?
38 kg sounds very underweight for Damian. In the meanwhile Jason is heavier than Shazam (100 kg, 1,88 m/6 ft 2 in).
Damian's and Tim's ally is Batman - the others have bat-family.
The list of main foes is very lackluster for all four. For Jason I would have expected Black Mask and the Untitled, maybe even Solitary and Joker's Daughter.
And since when is Two-Face a main foe of Dick?
Why is Tim the only one with a second name?

----------


## Zaresh

> Why is Tim a crime fighter and Damian a super hero - and Dick and Jason are vigilantes?
> 38 kg sounds very underweight for Damian. In the meanwhile Jason is heavier than Shazam (100 kg, 1,88 m/6 ft 2 in).
> Damian's and Tim's ally is Batman - the others have bat-family.
> The list of main foes is very lackluster for all four. For Jason I would have expected Black Mask and the Untitled, maybe even Solitary and Joker's Daughter.
> And since when is Two-Face a main foe of Dick?
> Why is Tim the only one with a second name?


 Vigilante probably sounds too adult for Tim or Damian; and Crime Fighter doesn't exactly suit the sort of stories they've been telling with Damian either. Or well, that's my best guess here. Dick too, sounds to underweight imho. Should be more towards 83-85kg I think. On the other hand, Jason being that heavy is nonsense. He should be towards 90kg, I think. I would also had Shazam way over 100kg, but whatever. Seems to me like they're not very consistent with these profiles, pfff. Definitely. Maybe not the most recent foes, but Black Mask, the Untitled, Duela... Those are years old or more already. Besides, wouldn't make sense listing Ra's al Ghul too, if they list The Joker? Dick getting Two-Face may be from the pre-COIE continuity that carried into today (it did up to post-Crisis, apparently). I don't know. I wonder if @Aahz could answer that. I was wondering if they're dropping Jason's middle name for some reason (avoiding the confusion with Jay Garrick). I don't know about Dick.

Thai writing system looks like out of some fantasy book: it looks (hellishly) pretty.

----------


## Jackalope89

No, Joker makes sense for Jason. With Black Mask and the Untitled as other foes.

And for Jason's stats; that sounds about right from what I've learned.

----------


## Zaresh

> No, Joker makes sense for Jason. With Black Mask and the Untitled as other foes.
> 
> And for Jason's stats; that sounds about right from what I've learned.


I don't know. I mean, for someone who's a bit into bodybuilding, maybe (or if he were 5 or so cm taller). But Jason hasn't have been like that since before Flashback. It doesn't seem like that to me.

Edit: I slipped my fingers in my previous post: I meant 90kg instead of 80kg.

Edit2: Looked at Chris Evans for reference (he's six feet tall). Maybe you're right and he should be over 210 lbs, even.

----------


## Aahz

> Dick too, sounds to underweight imho. Should be more towards 83-85kg I think. On the other hand, Jason being that heavy is nonsense. He should be towards 80kg, I think. I would also had Shazam way over 100kg, but whatever.


Dick seems allright. Jason should be heavier the Dick (since he is also listet as taller), I don't think 225lbs would be completely unrealistic, but might be little bit to much. But he should imo be at least weight something like 200lbs/90kg.

In case of Damian he was in the previous version 4'6 and 84 lbs, for some reason they changed the height (which is not in line with the comics were he was still shorten than Jon Kent) but left the weight the same.


When it comes to text and stuff like the villains you have to keep in mind, that in these guide the space the have is quite limited in comparison to Encyclopedia. And that they can't really go deep into different incarnations of the characters,  and stick therefore more to the iconic stuff and less to the current (which might be already outdated by the time the book is published). And I kind of doubt that there is general put much care into these book and that the writers have really much time for to do much research (they are not published by DC it self).
I t also happens quite frequently that nonsensical stats are copies from one guide to the next, and I'm pretty sure that they copied Dukes stats in this book from fan project (Earth 27).

----------


## Zaresh

> Dick seems allright. Jason should be heavier the Dick (since he is also listet as taller), I don't think 225lbs would be completely unrealistic, but might be little bit to much. But he should imo be at least weight something like 200lbs/90kg.


In my defense, I slipped my fingers when I was writing about Jason. I actually mean 90kg, funny enough: but after looking at Evans' info, maybe Jason should be even over the 95kg mark. Unless those measurements are from when he's preparing for the Cap/Avengers movies. In that case, it sounds like Jason definitely would be towards the 200lbs mark (or 90kg).

----------


## Restingvoice

> Does anyone own the DC Comics Ultimate Character Guide New Edition (2019)? I've only found screenshots on Twitter and I wonder if anyone at DC took the time to proof-read the book for consistency.
> 
> Dick
> 
> 
> 
> Jason
> 
> 
> ...


I never bother buying these because retcon always happen and I know DC writers/artists don't pay attention to this. Their references are past comics. Selective reference. That they sometimes just skim.

Joker isn't Tim's main enemy, Nightwing hasn't been engaged with Joker and Deathstroke in a while, this sounds like a list of icons mixed with new info with unlimited by continuity.
Yeah, New York City. Nightwing hasn't stepped foot in New York City since New 52. Unless that's where Rebirth Titans Tower is located but I only know New 52 Tim's base in New York.

----------


## Jackalope89

Yeah, Rebirth Titans Tower was in New York, short thought it was.

----------


## Zaresh

> Yeah, Rebirth Titans Tower was in New York, short thought it was.


It lasted for an arc and half. It's unbelievable they added NY, honestly.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I have the 2011 guide and looked at the boys' entries there to see how have they changed.


Nightwing
Heroe
1.78 m
79.38 kg
Gotham
Allies: Batman, Robin
Foes: Two Face, Blockbuster.


Red Hood
Villain
1.83 m
86.18 Kg
Gotham
Allies: Scarlett
Foes: Batman, Nightwing


Red Robin
Heroe
1.67 m
65.77 kg
Gotham
Allies: Batman, Nightwing, Batgirl
Foes: Captain Boomerang, Red Hood

Robin
Heroe
1.57 m
54.43 kg
Gotham
Allies: Batman, Teen Titans
Foes: Ra's Al Ghul.

Overall, interesting changes.

----------


## Aahz

Jason weight varies a lot between publications, the 225 lbs. come from the DC Encyclopedia. He was also listed at 190 and 180 lbs, and in the Arkham Knight Game he was listed at 200 lbs.

The only Bat characters were they have really been consistent with the stats are batman who is usually 6'2'' and 210 lbs and Dick who is usually 5'10'' and 175 lbs.

----------


## Sergard

> I have the 2011 guide and looked at the boys' entries there to see how have they changed.
> 
> 
> Nightwing
> Heroe
> 1.78 m
> 79.38 kg
> Gotham
> Allies: Batman, Robin
> ...


That's just sad to look at. Poor Jason.
And seems like Tim and Damian lost some weight since 2011.



Akoichoi _Best Friend_

----------


## Sergard

Kenneth Rocafort


_VESSEL one of my latest designs created by Scott Lobdell and me. First appearance in Red Hood Outlaws Annual 3. #mitografia #kennethrocafort #scottlobdell #redhoodandtheoutlaws #outlaws #redhood #vessel #jasontodd #batman #robin #design #designer #creation #comicbooks #dc #dccomics #rhato #art @scottylobdell_

----------


## dietrich

> iggy (sneak peek of their contribution to the Batfam Fashion Zine Gotham Bold)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iggy


This is cool. I really loved all the Inkydandy contributions.

----------


## Sergard

Red Hood Fan Series (artist: Jairo Motino/@ghostart321)




leopold




3c_N1

----------


## G-Potion

> Red Hood Fan Series (artist: Jairo Motino/@ghostart321)


I need more of this!!

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I was sorting my files when I found this



And is driving me nuts that I can't find the source of it. Does anyone recognize it?

----------


## Pohzee

> I was sorting my files when I found this
> 
> 
> 
> And is driving me nuts that I can't find the source of it. Does anyone recognize it?


I want to say Legends of the Dark Knight #100, but I'm not sure.

----------


## RedBird

> I was sorting my files when I found this
> 
> 
> 
> And is driving me nuts that I can't find the source of it. Does anyone recognize it?


Batman Legends of the Dark Knight #100.

The issue has possibly one of my favorite post DITF/pre UTRH Jason stories.
Just a short recollection of his life and death, but it's got some sweet and bittersweet moments.

----------


## RedBird

Double post hang on.

----------


## RedBird

Here's a good portion of the story. Found on Tumblr.

----------


## RedBird

That last page always gets me

----------


## Zaresh

I wonder if this was published here. The art is nice, and I like the voices in the characters and the narration. In fact it reminds me of someone's style. Who wrote that issue?

Edit: nevermind, I already found it. Yeah, it makes sense.

----------


## RedBird

> I wonder if this was published here. The art is nice, and I like the voices in the characters and the narration. In fact it reminds me of someone's style. Who wrote that issue?
> 
> Edit: nevermind, I already found it. Yeah, it makes sense.


Sorry for the confusion, I meant that I found the images on tumblr is all.

This particular Jason story from 'Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight #100, is only a short backup story, and I believe it's written by James Robinson. The main story in the issue, which is a retelling of Dicks origins is written by Dennis O'Neil.

If you don't mind me asking, whose style did the writing remind you of?

----------


## Zaresh

> Sorry for the confusion, I meant that I found the images on tumblr is all.
> 
> This particular Jason story from 'Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight #100, is only a short backup story, and I believe it's written by James Robinson. The main story in the issue, which is a retelling of Dicks origins is written by Dennis O'Neil.
> 
> If you don't mind me asking, whose style did the writing remind you of?


Nothing specific, some writer from the 80's but I couldn't place the name either. I was wondering who they could be, given that the issue was more "recent" than that time. Knowing now that it was not the writer, for the main story, now I guess it doesn't make sense anymore. But hey, the guy can really dial that pulpy-but-poetic/dramatic style from the late 70's- early 80's I found in works like Moench or, well, O'Neil.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Thanks for the quick answer!

I always loved that page so is great to finally know where it comes from.

----------


## Sergard

More #jayjaychallenge

uth69





LullabyDance





CoffeYorky

----------


## Zaresh

> More #jayjaychallenge
> 
> uth69
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LullabyDance
> ...


Oh, so good. I ended up doing nothing, I busied myself writing (I've gotten some inspiration and motivation) this weekend and lacked any time to spare drawing. But I still hold my idea for that art close; so it's a matter of time. It was a pre-Crisis blond Jason falling snd disolving into a post-Crisis Jason who was rising from the ground. I guess, now that I'm in no hurry, I'll use my markers. Eventually. Same as my shinsengumy Dick and my samurai Jason, hmmm... Too much stuff in my "to do" list, argh.

----------


## TheCape

> Here's a good portion of the story. Found on Tumblr.


This looks like Lee Weeks work, it looks pretty good.

----------


## Sergard

nockuth





Angi-Pants (sneak peek, part of the BatFam Fashion Zine "Gotham Bold")

----------


## Dzetoun

The trailer for the second season of _Titans_ has appeared in the middle of the night without fanfare. Curran Walters as Jason figures prominently, and delivers what will probably be the iconic quote.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/wegotth...uce-wayne/amp/

----------


## Sergard

> The trailer for the second season of _Titans_ has appeared in the middle of the night without fanfare. Curran Walters as Jason figures prominently, and delivers what will probably be the iconic quote.
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/wegotth...uce-wayne/amp/


Hihi.  :Big Grin: 
Curran Walters is doing a great job as Robin Jason Todd.
Bruce sounds ... not like your average American. I wonder how dialogues between him and Jason look like.



JH

----------


## gohei_

You know, I gotta admit that I haven't gotten around to reading much of Jason's time as Robin, so I can't compare. But just by going with the Red Hood Jason, Curran is pretty much spot on for how I would imagine the young Jason to be. I think he's doing a great job and was one of the highlights of season 1. I'm not so keen on the police brutality though, but considering how violent Dick is they had to make him a bit more extreme I guess.

Come to think about it, apart from Dick, all the "guest heroes" were far more interesting than the main cast in the first season.

----------


## Zaresh

> You know, I gotta admit that I haven't gotten around to reading much of Jason's time as Robin, so I can't compare. But just by going with the Red Hood Jason, Curran is pretty much spot on for how I would imagine the young Jason to be. I think he's doing a great job and was one of the highlights of season 1. *I'm not so keen on the police brutality though, but considering how violent Dick is they had to make him a bit more extreme I guess.
> *
> Come to think about it, apart from Dick, all the "guest heroes" were far more interesting than the main cast in the first season.


Heh, those were almost my own words when I watched his episode last season.

It's not really like Jason was when he was Robin, in my opinion. But at least, he does love fun, is bold, outspoken, and seems energetic (he wasn't overly energetic in the comics, but he definitely was as far as I know. This Jason seems restless). I'm going to guess he's going to be pretty empathetic too, because he needs a reason to be angry, and if they're going to go with Dick being angry because personal issues, they're probably going with Jason being angry because injustice in the world (his own share as well, I guess, even if that has never being a thing in the comics. Well, besides Bruce not punishing the Joker with death. But whatever). Jason wasn't a hothead in the comics, or really wasn't that angry and violent (and this Jason is being painted that way so far). But this is the DCUniverse take, and even Dick is quite dark and grim: so it really doesn't matter.

I liked the character for the show itself, and I'm looking forward to what they will do this new season.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Cryptic answer from Tom Taylor about the status of Jason in DCeased.

https://twitter.com/TomTaylorMade/st...09183025524736

----------


## Restingvoice

> Cryptic answer from Tom Taylor about the status of Jason in DCeased.
> 
> https://twitter.com/TomTaylorMade/st...09183025524736


Please live and make undead jokes. Please.

----------


## Swallowtail

> Please live and make undead jokes. Please.


Lazarus pit is a cure? Jason and the Al Ghuls immune? Notably, Desaad - also among the serially resurrected - is the only person weve seen so far who is immune. Also it would explain why Harley and ivy are still tooling around Gotham after Harley killed the joker when pretty much everything else has died or left. Theyre going to stumble across something.

----------


## Aahz

https://doc-squash.tumblr.com/

----------


## Aahz

> Cryptic answer from Tom Taylor about the status of Jason in DCeased.
> 
> https://twitter.com/TomTaylorMade/st...09183025524736


When I see how little he did with Jason in Injustice 2, I doubt that we will see much of him in DCeased.

----------


## Sergard

Moka-JayBird-Chinno






Mechorost

----------


## Sergard

02png

----------


## Sergard

Dexter Soy





hyaena666





_ba_mang

----------


## Sergard

anna _preview for @BatFamFashion !! drew stylish batbros_




BatFam Fashion Zine (artist: Tsukeoni)





moon115115

----------


## Vakanai

So the only Red Hood thing I've had any experience with is the movie, but I keep hearing good things about Red Hood and the Outlaws - do I need to read anything else to get into that, or can I just jump into that from Batman: Under the Red Hood and be alright? Is there like a recommended Jason Todd/Red Hood reading list?

----------


## Sergard

> So the only Red Hood thing I've had any experience with is the movie, but I keep hearing good things about Red Hood and the Outlaws - do I need to read anything else to get into that, or can I just jump into that from Batman: Under the Red Hood and be alright? Is there like a recommended Jason Todd/Red Hood reading list?


My personal recommendation

*Quick two-step introduction to Jason Todd/Red Hood*

Step 1: Watch Batman: Under the Red Hood
Step 2: Read the current Rebirth run of Red Hood and the Outlaws (renamed Red Hood: Outlaw, starting with issue 27), the trades are

    Red Hood and the Outlaws Vol 1 - Dark Trinity
    Red Hood and the Outlaws Vol 2 - Who is Artemis?
    Red Hood and the Outlaws Vol 3 - Bizarro Reborn
    Red Hood and the Outlaws Vol 4 - Good Night Gotham
    Red Hood: Outlaw Vol 1 - Requiem for an Archer

Everything else is more "reading on the go" based on what you are most curious about.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> So the only Red Hood thing I've had any experience with is the movie, but I keep hearing good things about Red Hood and the Outlaws - do I need to read anything else to get into that, or can I just jump into that from Batman: Under the Red Hood and be alright? Is there like a recommended Jason Todd/Red Hood reading list?


You can absolutely go from the UtRH film into the current run. You will miss a bunch of references to the original series but nothing too serious. That said, personally, I think it would be better for you to read since the start of the N52, Lobdell has been crafting an overarching story with Jason's character since 2011 so you would miss a bunch of important stories.

My personal reading list is:

>The animated film
>RHATO Vol 1 trades:
1	REDemption	
2	The Starfire	
3	Death of the Family	
6	Lost and Found	Red Hood and the Outlaws #32-34, Annual #2	
7	Last Call	Red Hood and the Outlaws #35-40, Future's End #1

>Red Hood/Arsenal
1 Open For Business
2 Dancing with the Devil's Daughter.

>RHATO Vol 2
Red Hood and the Outlaws Vol 1 - Dark Trinity
Red Hood and the Outlaws Vol 2 - Who is Artemis?
Red Hood and the Outlaws Vol 3 - Bizarro Reborn
Red Hood and the Outlaws Vol 4 - Good Night Gotham
Red Hood: Outlaw Vol 1 - Requiem for an Archer

----------


## Zaresh

I second the direct jump into the current Rebirth run if you're really curious about it. You may miss a few references, but you can go back reading the first N52 trades any time. There are a few other stories referenced by fans and the writers here and there too, but they don't play a big role in the RHATO books, really.

----------


## Vakanai

Thank you very much for the info, glad there's not a whole lot to deal with.

----------


## AJpyro

WHat about RH Lost Days?

----------


## Zaresh

> WHat about RH Lost Days?


It's a book that's a bit divisive: some people like it (like I do), some people dislike it. It's a complement to the Under the Hood story from the comics, but it's not in continuity anymore and it's definitely not needed for understanding Red Hood and the Outlaws or any other book from the  New 52 as far as I'm aware or can recall.

----------


## Jackalope89

> WHat about RH Lost Days?


Best to ignore that.

----------


## AJpyro

That sucks. Aside from the Talia thing(And really, why would you do that), I liked it.

----------


## Arsenal

I enjoyed RH: Lost Days (except the Talia thing) but I like what Lobdell replaced it with even more so I don’t mind it being dropped.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Really, from the pre-FP continuity the only thing that is relevant is the original UtRH. And even then, you can replace it with the animated film. The rest of the stories are superfluous now.

----------


## Konja7

> Really, from the pre-FP continuity the only thing that is relevant is the original UtRH. And even then, you can replace it with the animated film. The rest of the stories are superfluous now.


It is probably the best for Jason.

I mean it is better for Jason if stories like "Battle for the Cowl" just disappear from his past.

----------


## kaimaciel

> I mean it is better for Jason if stories like "Battle for the Cowl" just disappear from his past.


Oh God, yes! I hated that story.

----------


## Arsenal

It’s probably better for everybody if Battle for the Cowl disappeared from their past.

----------


## Korath

Well, I'll be damned. It sure sounds as if Bendis was actually elevating Red Hood in an event book, in this 3 page preview !

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/08...han-3-preview/

----------


## G-Potion

As flattering as it is, Damian sounds just weird.

----------


## Zaresh

Nah, it's just Bendis trying to sell his suspect. Making him being "one of the best fighters" isn't really a reason to believe he could actually be a mastermind and strategist good enough to take over all those organizations, imho. I mean: being a fighter and being a strategist isn't necesary the same. Those are different sets of skills. Still, I cannot believe someone is nowadays stating that Jason is so good at something. Small miracles.

Aw, Maleev's art still looks great. He's criticised a lot these days, but he's still a heck of an artist.

----------


## Arsenal

The dialogue in the bottom half of the 3rd page sounds weird. It feels like we’re getting random snippets of a conversation instead of the whole thing.

----------


## G-Potion

> Nah, it's just Bendis trying to sell his suspect. Making him being "one of the best fighters" isn't really a reason to believe he could actually be a mastermind and strategist good enough to take over all those organizations, imho. I mean: being a fighter and being a strategist isn't necesary the same. Those are different sets of skills. Still, I cannot believe someone is nowadays stating that Jason is so good at something. Small miracles.


I'm amazed that he was able to get away from all these people.

----------


## dietrich

> As flattering as it is, Damian sounds just weird.


It doesn't sound like Damian. It ignores the relationship that Ollie and Damian have. Ollie would never speak to Damian like that and Damian has more respect for Ollie than that. Again they don't seem to have any reason to suspect Jason except for that Bendis really wants it so he's writing it.

I can't imagine Damian ever saying that about Jason. Not ever.

----------


## Zaresh

> I'm amazed that he was able to get away from all these people.


He's one of the best fighters. That itself  proves he is. "shuggs"

Aaaand it's easier that actually show how someone could get away from them all. And faster. Let the reader fill the blanks.

(I'm writing almost in comic sans. Almost. As I said and meant, at least someone is selling Jason's skills well. Or some of them)

----------


## Ansa

> It doesn't sound like Damian. It ignores the relationship that Ollie and Damian have. Ollie would never speak to Damian like that and Damian has more respect for Ollie than that. Again they don't seem to have any reason to suspect Jason except for that Bendis really wants it so he's writing it.
> 
> I can't imagine Damian ever saying that about Jason. Not ever.


If Bendis keeps writing Damian as weird as he does...is anyone else worried about the super sons reunion in Superman 16? Sorry for going a bit off-topic.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Oh god, is the "Jason beats Shiva with a punch" nonsense again.

----------


## Zaresh

> Oh god, is the "Jason beats Shiva with a punch" nonsense again.


I think he will go for "he was trained by the League and Batman and some others", actually. Nothing as radical as that one-time thing (it was in vol.1, right? In Tynion's?). Seems like a reason good enough for Damian to say that, for me (if you don't know many more fighters from the DCU that are better than Jason).

----------


## Arsenal

Calling him one of the great fight masters was a bit much.

But I guess going with something simple like “one of the best fighters” loses its appeal when you realize most of DC’s street level people make that list too.

----------


## Zaresh

> Calling him one of the great fight masters was a bit much.
> 
> But I guess going with something simple like “one of the best fighters” loses its appeal when you realize most of DC’s street level people make that list too.


Ah, right. It was "one of the great master fighters". Eh... Hard to believe he would be called that. But the greater the threat...

----------


## Sergard

> If Bendis keeps writing Damian as weird as he does...is anyone else worried about the super sons reunion in Superman 16? Sorry for going a bit off-topic.


I'm not worried. But I'm also not going to read it. I don't like Bendis' Damian. In my own opinion, Tim would have been a better option for the "Robin" role in Event Leviathan because I have no idea what Damian is doing, saying or aiming at.

When I read interactions between Damian and Jason (including but not restricted to Event Leviathan)  it often feels like Damian has his own weird perception of Jason - a perception that does not match up with the way Jason is depicted in his own series or in most guest appearances nowadays - but although Damian probably has all those information about Jason, he still sticks with his own perception. And him admitting that Jason is a skilled fighter ("one of the great master fighters of all time" - what a stupid term. On the other hand, there are probably enough people who consider Dick, Tim and Damian one of the greatest master fighters of all time, and that's the same nonsense.) does not even sound like praise - more like Damian trying to find an excuse because he lost. I don't know why writers seem to set Damian up for failure when it comes to Jason (by that I mean how Damian mistreats Jason in general). It annoys the hell out of me. I hate it when Jason gets thrown under the bus for other characters - but that doesn't mean that I want to see history repeat itself with another character.

I normally like Damian a lot. But for the love of God, can he please leave Event Leviathan? His appearance does not do him any favors.

----------


## Ansa

> I'm not worried. But I'm also not going to read it. I don't like Bendis' Damian. In my own opinion, Tim would have been a better option for the "Robin" role in Event Leviathan because I have no idea what Damian is doing, saying or aiming at.
> 
> When I read interactions between Damian and Jason (including but not restricted to Event Leviathan)  it often feels like Damian has his own weird perception of Jason - a perception that does not match up with the way Jason is depicted in his own series or in most guest appearances nowadays - but although Damian probably has all those information about Jason, he still sticks with his own perception. And him admitting that Jason is a skilled fighter ("one of the great master fighters of all time" - what a stupid term. On the other hand, there are probably enough people who consider Dick, Tim and Damian one of the greatest master fighters of all time, and that's the same nonsense.) does not even sound like praise - more like Damian trying to find an excuse because he lost. I don't know why writers seem to set Damian up for failure when it comes to Jason. It annoys the hell out of me. I hate it when Jason gets thrown under the bus for other characters - but that doesn't mean that I want to see history repeat itself with another character.
> 
> I normally like Damian a lot. But for the love of God, can he please leave Event Leviathan? His appearance does not do him any favors.


I don't know if it's true, but I did read that Bendis' favourite Robin is Tim and that he thinks replacing Tim with Damian as Robin was a mistake around the time he announced that Tim would be Robin again for his Young Justice book. If that's true it would explain why he throws Damian under the bus in this event.

Another thing that confuses me: Why did Bruce go through with all of this? And didn't Damian say:"help me prove that Jason Todd isn't Leviathan"? I haven't really paid attention to this event because I'm not a fan of Bendis, so I'm really confused by all of this.

----------


## Jackalope89

> If Bendis keeps writing Damian as weird as he does...is anyone else worried about the super sons reunion in Superman 16? Sorry for going a bit off-topic.


Considering he's been writing Jon as bland (at best), among other things, yeah. Not really looking forward to it. At all.

Anyway, another fanfic recommendation; To Wonder On. In this story, when Jason is boosting the Batmobiles wheels, its Diana that comes across him first, rather than Bruce. From there, Diana takes him in as her son, and introduces him to her life and family. Some interesting interactions on Themyscira (meeting not only his grandmother, but Artemis too, which had quite the greeting between them). And right now, the author is doing their version of the Hiketea.

https://archiveofourown.org/works/18...pters/43855696

----------


## Restingvoice

The way the team looks at Batman while being angry about "fair and square" makes me think Batman sabotage the capture in a way that's not so subtle to the team OR Jason had help. The Outlaws? Traps? Beat here doesn't necessarily mean fighting. It could be that he lures them to his booby-trapped safe house or something.

----------


## Sergard

soosdraws




hainingart




iggy

----------


## Zaresh

> soosdraws
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hainingart
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The one with Spoiler is specially cool. The other two are great as well, but that one is pretty cool. I dig their style.

----------


## Vakanai

I'm noticing in a lot of the fanart here Jason's sporting a shock of white hair - assuming that's comics accurate, when did that happen?

----------


## Zaresh

> I'm noticing in a lot of the fanart here Jason's sporting a shock of white hair - assuming that's comics accurate, when did that happen?


Hush, and then a few alternate realities like Flashpoint and, if I'm not mistaken, Mother Panic's future.

----------


## Arsenal

> I'm noticing in a lot of the fanart here Jason's sporting a shock of white hair - assuming that's comics accurate, when did that happen?


As far as can I remember, it only appeared twice: His appearance at the end of Hush & the “set up” for it in Red Hood: Lost Days.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I'm noticing in a lot of the fanart here Jason's sporting a shock of white hair - assuming that's comics accurate, when did that happen?


Is not comics accurate. The only time it appeared was during Batman:Hush and the Batman Annual that recalled Hush's events. In main continuity, Jason has never sported the white streak, and going by Lobdell's words, Editorial doesn't care about it. A few alternative versions like Flashpoint's Father Todd or Comics Injustice 2's Jason do have the streak though. 

Personally, I've never liked it.

----------


## Sergard

> I'm noticing in a lot of the fanart here Jason's sporting a shock of white hair - assuming that's comics accurate, when did that happen?


As the others have mentioned, the white streak only had very few appearances in the old post-crisis continuity and isn't canon in current main continuity.
But the white streak still has a rather big fan base. A lot of people seem to like the little detail - and I love all the fanart.
It proves that something doesn't have to be a widely acknowledged detail about a character or even canon in order to attract the attention of fans and especially fan artists.

Just take the Red Hood: Outlaw #33 cover for another example. It shows Jason in a suit and with his red mouth mask and an umbrella.

This design only appears on the cover. It hasn't ever been used in the story. So it's not canon. But shortly after the cover had been released fan artists posted a lot of fanarts using this design because they liked it so much.

----------


## Vakanai

Ah, thanks. Kind of like the shock of white, wouldn't mind it being used more, helps make him look different from Dick and Tim out of costume. Also that suit in that cover is pretty snazzy.

----------


## Zaresh

> Ah, thanks. Kind of like the shock of white, wouldn't mind it being used more, helps make him look different from Dick and Tim out of costume. Also that suit in that cover is pretty snazzy.


Well, he does wear the suit, just not with the muzzle and the umbrella \o/. He wears a few suits in that story arc.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Pictures of the Designer Series, Red Hood statue released this year

https://twitter.com/sin_0311bat/stat...87229236367360

Pity they went with the Handsome Squidward helmet because is an excellent figure otherwise.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Pictures of the Designer Series, Red Hood statue released this year
> 
> https://twitter.com/sin_0311bat/stat...87229236367360
> 
> Pity they went with the Handsome Squidward helmet because is an excellent figure otherwise.


They should've made that stand stick go straight to his butt. I can't make fun of it this way.

----------


## Restingvoice

> As the others have mentioned, the white streak only had very few appearances in the old post-crisis continuity and isn't canon in current main continuity.
> But the white streak still has a rather big fan base. A lot of people seem to like the little detail - and I love all the fanart.
> It proves that something doesn't have to be a widely acknowledged detail about a character or even canon in order to attract the attention of fans and especially fan artists.
> 
> Just take the Red Hood: Outlaw #33 cover for another example. It shows Jason in a suit and with his red mouth mask and an umbrella.
> 
> This design only appears on the cover. It hasn't ever been used in the story. So it's not canon. But shortly after the cover had been released fan artists posted a lot of fanarts using this design because they liked it so much.


It's the same reason why Wally's Rebirth design got so popular, why Nightwing is popular, and why the military haircuts are not as popular. YA fantasy boyfriends need to have good stylish hair.

----------


## Sergard

02png




02png




Paz

----------


## Sergard

orangepie_want







Paz

----------


## Sergard

I didn't know that Jason had a Robin winter outfit (Batman Annual #13)

----------


## Sergard

DSA





Amy

----------


## Sergard

Virtual_Mockingbird (#jayjaychallenge)





RedRidingHood




trash-kiing

----------


## Restingvoice

> I didn't know that Jason had a Robin winter outfit (Batman Annual #13)


Oh, this is not in ReadDC. Last time I saw they only have a few annuals. Man, they're so close, just fix the size and the color. I guess at that time they still wanna use the classic while adding something practical.

----------


## Sergard

> Oh, this is not in ReadDC. Last time I saw they only have a few annuals. Man, they're so close, just fix the size and the color. I guess at that time they still wanna use the classic while adding something practical.


Yeah, I've noticed too. I would have liked to read it. Two-Face' depiction looks interesting.
I have found a slightly better version of the first page. It at least looks like a remastered version. But I'm confused why it's not on readDC.

----------


## Sergard

There's a Jason Todd birthday week challenge on Tumblr (source: Daily Jason Todd).
Hashtags: #jtbdayweek or #jtbw19

Here are some fanarts:

samysamsamarts




orange-mimosa




Giant Nerd

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

July Sales numbers are out

>Dollar ranks are in square brackets.
>Fused ranks of those with card stock variants are in curly brackets.

{114}. RED HOOD OUTLAW #36 (ALL) (DC) - 21,308 
161. RED HOOD OUTLAW ANNUAL #3 (DC) - 14,144 [139]
180. RED HOOD OUTLAW #36 (DC) - 12,120 [186]
224. RED HOOD OUTLAW #36 CARD STOCK (DC) - 9,188 [203]
35. RED HOOD OUTLAW VOL 01 REQUIEM FOR AN ARCHER (DC) - 1,692 [46]

https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...9/2019-07.html

----------


## Sergard

> July Sales numbers are out
> 
> >Dollar ranks are in square brackets.
> >Fused ranks of those with card stock variants are in curly brackets.
> 
> {114}. RED HOOD OUTLAW #36 (ALL) (DC) - 21,308 
> 161. RED HOOD OUTLAW ANNUAL #3 (DC) - 14,144 [139]
> 180. RED HOOD OUTLAW #36 (DC) - 12,120 [186]
> 224. RED HOOD OUTLAW #36 CARD STOCK (DC) - 9,188 [203]
> ...


I don't get it. Card Stock is the variant, right? Since when are variants listed separately?
I don't know how to update the sales statistics. Which numbers should I use?

----------


## Zaresh

> I don't get it. Card Stock is the variant, right? Since when are variants listed separately?
> I don't know how to update the sales statistics. Which numbers should I use?


Cardstock comics apparently are comics with a thicker paper. I guess for libraries and stuff? No idea. I would add them all.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Is listed separately because the Card stock variant was pricier, so it only really impacts the series' Dollar rank. For matters entirely about copies sold, just use the 21,308 number since that is what both editions of issue 36 sold in total.

----------


## Zaresh

> Is listed separately because the Card stock variant was pricier, so it only really impacts the series' Dollar rank. For matters entirely about copies sold, just use the 21,308 number since that is what both editions of issue 36 sold in total.


21k isn't a bad mark, if it's just a thicker cover, and not an actual special variant cover.
14k is lower than I was expecting for the annual, aw.

----------


## Arsenal

Yeah I was expecting a little higher on the annual too

----------


## Jackalope89

> There's a Jason Todd birthday week challenge on Tumblr (source: Daily Jason Todd).
> Hashtags: #jtbdayweek or #jtbw19
> 
> Here are some fanarts:
> 
> samysamsamarts
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not only there, but on AO3 as well.

----------


## Sergard

> 21k isn't a bad mark, if it's just a thicker cover, and not an actual special variant cover.
> 14k is lower than I was expecting for the annual, aw.


But it's the Year of the Villain variant cover by Yasmine Putri. I would call that a special variant cover. 




I'm surprised too about the low number for the annual. The annual was in the top 3 on readDC for quite a while. So I thought that the physical copies would do well too.

----------


## Zaresh

> But it's the Year of the Villain variant cover by Yasmine Putri. I would call that a special variant cover. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm surprised too about the low number for the annual. The annual was in the top 3 on readDC for quite a while. So I thought that the physical copies would do well too.


That was the variant cover for #36? Weird it did low then. Puttri's covers sell nicely, very nicely.
Something in these numbers feel wrong. Not just about RHATO: overall, I noticed that this past month's figures are a bit off, too low, for a lot of books. Maybe it's just my impression.

----------


## RedBird

I'm pretty sure there is now an additional preview page from 'Event Leviathan #3'.




[img]https://***********/www.comicsbeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/ELEVI_3_2-3.jpg[/img]

[img]https://***********/www.comicsbeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/ELEVI_3_4-5.jpg[/img]

----------


## gohei_

There is a big Rebirth sale on Comixology right now so I just picked up the latest trade for more than 50 % off.  :Cool:

----------


## Korath

Damn it. Jason really got balls of steel in Leviathan. The guy is jumping mid air and turn around to shoot at Batman, green Arrow, Robin, the Question, Plastic Man and an unknown woman (plus Lois Lane) like there is no tomorrow and he don't give a damn.

Is it wrong that i like it ?

----------


## J. D. Guy

> Damian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is Tim a crime fighter and Damian a super hero - and Dick and Jason are vigilantes?
> 38 kg sounds very underweight for Damian. In the meanwhile Jason is heavier than Shazam (100 kg, 1,88 m/6 ft 2 in).
> Damian's and Tim's ally is Batman - the others have bat-family.
> The list of main foes is very lackluster for all four. For Jason I would have expected Black Mask and the Untitled, maybe even Solitary and Joker's Daughter.
> ...


Sorry for the late reply, but did Duke/Signal have one of these? (Probs inaccurate, but I'm still curious.)

----------


## J. D. Guy

> It's true that Priest gave Joey harder, drier, even meaner personality traits; but I think he's still too tied to the Titans and too heroic to work fine as a member of the Outlaws (but I am totally in for him joining). And it's true, as was already mentioned, that he's a "big" character and chances are he's not allowed by editorial. Connor, I could see them though. He's nowhere now, in limbo, and even if he was a main character for a while, it's still "small," I guess.
> 
> From the flash family, last time I read that book, Goodspeed was a pretty straight forward villain (hurting innocents and all); but that was a year and half ago and I was told he changed? In any case, yep; seems like he's out of the list if he's still in someone else's plams. Daniel West could be cool; he has enought heroic traits as far as I know, but he's still dead right? And bringing him back in this book could feel kind of rude for the current kid flash fans. What about Pied Piper?


Again, sorry for the late reply.

I dunno; I think Joey could still work in a Red Hood & the Outlaws setting, if nothing then but contrast. Granted, Connor could work better that way, but still. Also, not sure how strictly "important" enough Jericho is to have some kind of use-embargo over him. He barely appears in things, and usually never in a main role. At least not for long, or in comparison to Rose.

Also, Daniel existing here wouldn't be an affront to Wallace's/Kid Flash's fans. Not as far as I can see it. If anything, it would excite his fans by opening a doorway to get the two to interact again on a personal level, something that hasn't happened in forever and would breed awesome potential given their newly retconned status of Daniel being Wallace's dad who'd been masquerading as his uncle for all of his known life. (And while it was done as a heroic sacrifice and an act of redemption, which I appreciate his character going through, closing the book on as cool a character as Daniel was never sat right with me. I'd like him brought back for the story potential he can only present as a living character.)

Not sure on Pied Piper. He's reformed, though he hasn't been seen since The Flash series during the mid-New 52, when he was a regular recurring character then.

Lastly, quite a bit has happened since the first Rebirth Flash story arc. And even then, August/Godspeed was technically never merely a straightforward villain character; even at his most power-high early on, Godspeed was always an Anti-Villain hardcore vigilante. It could be argued that his transitions into getting drunk off his newfound power and outlet for his vigilante ambitions could have been better served happening over a more expanded length of time than it did, but's more the writing pressures of keeping a brief pace in the story, where no current arc can last longer than 6 issues max. We could have done with the time to flesh his backstory and personal thoughts more, but alas. That said, he's gone through his own form of a redemption arc, and even tried to kill himself for his misdeeds as self-recompense. Currently, he was saved and is now working at the behest of the enigmatic figure who saved him (even if this puts him at odds with Barry again).

Takeaway being that Godspeed is a morally complex character who's nuance would fit the Outlaws quite nicely. It would also likely provide him with some internal fleshing out that he can't afford to be given in the way his character deserves, since he's not the lead of The Flash and there's only so much time for things to be done, between all the ongoing arcs and the need to focus on Barry. (The Red Hood books tend to treat their party members as being just as narratively important as Jason in their own ways. August Heart could use some of that.)

----------


## Zaresh

August endangered civilians without a second thought as far as I remember (maybe I'm remembering wrong). That's plenty crazy-villainous for me. But I guess that yeah, he was more like an anti-villainous vigilante (much like Jason's in Under the Hood), constricted by the time Williamson had to tell that story.

I don't think they're going to "free" that character until Williamson is done with the book, though.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Damn it. Jason really got balls of steel in Leviathan. The guy is jumping mid air and turn around to shoot at Batman, green Arrow, Robin, the Question, Plastic Man and an unknown woman (plus Lois Lane) like there is no tomorrow and he don't give a damn.
> 
> Is it wrong that i like it ?


No, is not wrong. 

But it is terrible writing. Sure, Jason should be good but _that_ good, this is just the kind of low effort, pandering writing that Jason is commonly accused of for those who aren't familiar with his stories.

----------


## Jackalope89

> August endangered civilians without a second thought as far as I remember (maybe I'm remembering wrong). That's plenty crazy-villainous for me. But I guess that yeah, he was more like an anti-villainous vigilante (much like Jason's in Under the Hood), constricted by the time Williamson had to tell that story.
> 
> I don't think they're going to "free" that character until Williamson is done with the book, though.


August also killed a bunch of newly made speedsters by stealing their speed.

----------


## Zaresh

> August also killed a bunch of newly made speedsters by stealing their speed.


I forgot that part.

----------


## RedBird

> Damn it. Jason really got balls of steel in Leviathan. The guy is jumping mid air and turn around to shoot at Batman, green Arrow, Robin, the Question, Plastic Man and an unknown woman (plus Lois Lane) like there is no tomorrow and he don't give a damn.
> 
> Is it wrong that i like it ?


Not at all. I'm still reeling from seeing Jason being written as _competent_ outside of his own book.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Damn it. Jason really got balls of steel in Leviathan. The guy is jumping mid air and turn around to shoot at Batman, green Arrow, Robin, the Question, Plastic Man and an unknown woman (plus Lois Lane) like there is no tomorrow and he don't give a damn.
> 
> Is it wrong that i like it ?


The woman is Man Hunter, Kate Spencer. Though debuted as Man Hunter from Bendis, Kate first appeared in Green Arrow Rebirth (though I wonder what happened to her kid, as she is a single mom...).

----------


## Sergard

Fade

_To celebrate Jays birthday, JJMK and I will make some postcards! We expect it to be 5$, including two postcards plus shipping fee (not selling individually)._ 

postcard by JJMK



postcard by Fade

----------


## Sergard

RedRidingHood _tim & cat jay_







no_CH_ka

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

The Roy teddy bear is a fantastic touch.

----------


## Sergard

nockuth





02png

----------


## Sergard

Kenneth Rocafort _Another character design for DC Comics #kpop #mitografia #kennethrocafort #korean #newmember #comicbooks #mitografia_kr #dccomics_




Reminder: Here's the other design mentioned.




> Kenneth Rocafort _VESSEL one of my latest designs created by Scott Lobdell and me. First appearance in Red Hood Outlaws Annual 3. #mitografia #kennethrocafort #scottlobdell #redhoodandtheoutlaws #outlaws #redhood #vessel #jasontodd #batman #robin #design #designer #creation #comicbooks #dc #dccomics #rhato #art @scottylobdell_

----------


## Aahz

> Sorry for the late reply, but did Duke/Signal have one of these? (Probs inaccurate, but I'm still curious.)


Yes he had.
Real Name : Duke Thomas
Occupation: Mechanic, Super Hero
Height: 1.75m (5ft 9 in)
Weight: 82 kg (180 lbs)
Base: Gotham City
Main Allies: Batman, the Bat-Family, Detective Alex Aisi
Main Foes Gnomon, The Joker, the Riddler

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Kind of funny that Rocafort didn't share the designs of the characters Lobdell spoke about in that podcast.

----------


## Jackalope89



----------


## Badou

Man, Jason went full BatGod in the Leviathan issue. I get him maybe beating some people if they want to build him up, but that felt excessive.

----------


## Aahz

> Man, Jason went full BatGod in the Leviathan issue. I get him maybe beating some people if they want to build him up, but that felt excessive.


But Appart from Batman and maybe Green Arrow, non of them are really that  impressive.

----------


## Badou

> But Appart from Batman and maybe Green Arrow, non of them are really that  impressive.


Batman, Robin, Green Arrow, Plastic Man, Manhunter, and making sure Lois doesn't take pictures with her phone all at the same time. It isn't nearly as bad as when Batman beats the whole Justice League, which I hate, but this felt excessive. Like if Dick did this I wouldn't like it either. Then the heroes saying he kicked their ass was further affirmation which felt odd too. This isn't a knock on Jason but more on how Bendis is writing his story. 

It also didn't help that the story feels like it spent a lot of time explaining why Jason isn't Leviathan, but the readers never thought he was Leviathan anyway. So it feels like a lot of wasted pages and time showing "the world's greatest detectives" look dumb. I still think it will be Roy and maybe all this is just setting up some Roy vs Jason thing, but it really could have been constructed better I think.

----------


## Aahz

The fight is anyway kind of odd, I don't really get how he took out Plastic Man (who you can't really take out without a gadget), and how he bested Batman and Robin, they are fighting on one side and on the next he has somehow won and has gotten away.

----------


## Arsenal

> Batman, Robin, Green Arrow, Plastic Man, Manhunter, and making sure Lois doesn't take pictures with her phone all at the same time. It isn't nearly as bad as when Batman beats the whole Justice League, which I hate, but this felt excessive. Like if Dick did this I wouldn't like it either. Then the heroes saying he kicked their ass was further affirmation which felt odd too. This isn't a knock on Jason but more on how Bendis is writing his story. 
> 
> It also didn't help that the story feels like it spent a lot of time explaining why Jason isn't Leviathan, but the readers never thought he was Leviathan anyway. So it feels like a lot of wasted pages and time showing "the world's greatest detectives" look dumb. I still think it will be Roy and maybe all this is just setting up some Roy vs Jason thing, but it really could have been constructed better I think.


They never really bothered to explain why they even thought it was Jason in the first place. Even the fight itself was kind of difficult to follow what was suppose to be going on.

----------


## Badou

> The fight is anyway kind of odd, I don't really get how he took out Plastic Man (who you can't really take out without a gadget), and how he bested Batman and Robin, they are fighting on one side and on the next he has somehow won and has gotten away.


Yeah the fight was a little tough to follow. It looked like he caught an arrow from Green Arrow with his run barrel and then later fired his gun to shoot the arrow at point blank range at Plastic Man. I guess we are supposed to assume it was some trick arrow that was able to stop him.

----------


## J. D. Guy

> August endangered civilians without a second thought as far as I remember (maybe I'm remembering wrong). That's plenty crazy-villainous for me. But I guess that yeah, he was more like an anti-villainous vigilante (much like Jason's in Under the Hood), constricted by the time Williamson had to tell that story.
> 
> I don't think they're going to "free" that character until Williamson is done with the book, though.


Having followed the character, since he rather intrigues me, I can confidently say the latter is more accurate than simply "crazy villain". It's actually a good analogy with UtRH Jason, too. And yes, I do feel time constraints did rush things along such that points that needed to be made and reached were done so faster then they could be grown. But such is the nature of things, sometimes.

Also, yeah. It's doubtful August will see the light of day anywhere else while Williamson still has his story to tell. It'd help if he was elsewhere, though, in my opinion, just so that he doesn't risk vanishing if or should Williamson does from The Flash before he can tell his stories. Him appearing here is just wishful thinking on my part, though.




> Yes he had.
> Real Name : Duke Thomas
> Occupation: Mechanic, Super Hero
> Height: 1.75m (5ft 9 in)
> Weight: 82 kg (180 lbs)
> Base: Gotham City
> Main Allies: Batman, the Bat-Family, Detective Alex Aisi
> Main Foes Gnomon, The Joker, the Riddler


Thanks!

Well, I guess some of this looks right? The mechanic thing? That's fanon from the Earth-27 concept; they kinda completely changed Duke's character, excising his connection to Bruce and Batman. (Also, Wallace is the one with the mechanic prowess.)

They do note Aisi and Gnomon, though, which is good.

----------


## Zaresh

> Batman, Robin, Green Arrow, Plastic Man, Manhunter, and making sure Lois doesn't take pictures with her phone all at the same time. It isn't nearly as bad as when Batman beats the whole Justice League, which I hate, but this felt excessive. Like if Dick did this I wouldn't like it either. Then the heroes saying he kicked their ass was further affirmation which felt odd too. This isn't a knock on Jason but more on how Bendis is writing his story. 
> 
> It also didn't help that the story feels like it spent a lot of time explaining why Jason isn't Leviathan, but the readers never thought he was Leviathan anyway. So it feels like a lot of wasted pages and time showing "the world's greatest detectives" look dumb. I still think it will be Roy and maybe all this is just setting up some Roy vs Jason thing, but it really could have been constructed better I think.


I agree. And this is why I don't like the idea of Bendis doing Batman. Well, one of the whys, at least.

----------


## Aahz

> Well, I guess some of this looks right? The mechanic thing? That's fanon from the Earth-27 concept; they kinda completely changed Duke's character, excising his connection to Bruce and Batman. (Also, Wallace is the one with the mechanic prowess.)


Height and Weight seem also to be copied from Earth-27, the research they did for this book wasn't really that great ...

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Wow, Leviathan#3 was pretty bad. Another issue wasted where the plot doesn't move forward and everyone acts out of character. Jason didn't got chumped but being turned into Identity Crisis' Deathstroke is not better.

----------


## Aahz

I really don't get why they thing that such a low pacing is acceptable in big event storylines.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Wow, Leviathan#3 was pretty bad. Another issue wasted where the plot doesn't move forward and everyone acts out of character. Jason didn't got chumped but being turned into Identity Crisis' Deathstroke is not better.


Honestly, the art is not very good for this kind of story either. Its just the wrong amount of detail, particularly for action scenes.

And Bendis still proves he can write entire issues, filled with dialogue, but somehow NOT advance the plot at all.

And who is this imposter posing as Damian?

----------


## G-Potion

Haha this issue. I don't understand most of what everyone says or does.

----------


## Zaresh

> Haha this issue. I don't understand most of what everyone says or does.


Yes, exactly.

Sigh.

Ah, whatever. This will be resolved in the last issue and probably forgotten afterwards.

----------


## Sergard

Louna Ashasou






onipilot

----------


## Arsenal

> Honestly, the art is not very good for this kind of story either. Its just the wrong amount of detail, particularly for action scenes.
> 
> And Bendis still proves he can write entire issues, filled with dialogue, but somehow NOT advance the plot at all.
> 
> And who is this imposter posing as Damian?


It's Tim wearing a Damian mask.

And he'd of gotten away with it too if it wasn't for that if it wasn't that meddling Leviathan.

----------


## Aahz

> Jason didn't got chumped but being turned into Identity Crisis' Deathstroke is not better.


What Deathstroke did was way more ridiculous then what Jason did here, and it was also way more awesome since you could actually understand what was going on in that fight.

In the fight in Event leviathan Jason accuracy with the guns, and when redirecting the Arrow seems kind of over the top, but you see Bruce, Dick and Damian do stuff like that quite often, so it is believable for me that he can pull that of.

Manhunter is not really a highly trained fighter, so that Jason can take her in an one-on-one fight is also plausible.

Green Arrow shoots only two arrows at him, and one seems actually to do what it was supposed to do and to block Jason's gun. And we have seen Jason already pre crisis doing well in fight against the (imo more capable) post OYL Grren Arrow.

In the Fight with Batman and Robin you can't tell what is going on, but it looked more like Jason somehow got away that he actually beat them in Hand to hand combat.

Only the Plastic Man thing doesn't really make sense for me, since that guy is basically invulnerable to martial arts, guns and falling from building. And could imo easily taken Jason down, if his powers had been used properly.

----------


## Arsenal

So do y’all think Jason is done with Event: Leviathan or will he continue to pop up in the last 3 issues.

----------


## Sergard

Christopher Castillo





Yash Shetye




j.jayreddish

----------


## Jackalope89

> So do y’all think Jason is done with Event: Leviathan or will he continue to pop up in the last 3 issues.


I hope he's done. Sadly, can't say the same for Damian though. Or what Bendis is calling Damian.

----------


## Zaresh

> So do yall think Jason is done with Event: Leviathan or will he continue to pop up in the last 3 issues.


If I'm not mistaken, he's shown in the cover for issue #4 or #5? So I guess the story isn't done with him yet.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Christopher Castillo


Ooh. Spider-Man cover reference

----------


## Sergard

> If I'm not mistaken, he's shown in the cover for issue #4 or #5? So I guess the story isn't done with him yet.


Issue #5. But the solicitation doesn't mention Jason.

_From the Eisner Award-winning team of writer Brian Michael Bendis and artist Alex Maleev, it's the reveal of the biggest mystery of the summer. Who is Leviathan? And what is their true goal? You're going to find out here! Plus, Lois Lane had a whole other team working this story the entire time,  and-oh man!-someone found something!_ 





By the way, wasn't Silencer supposed to appear in Event Leviathan #3?

----------


## RedBird

Well that was a little more than just 'competent'. Okey doke then.





> What Deathstroke did was way more ridiculous then what Jason did here, and it was also way more awesome since you could actually understand what was going on in that fight.
> 
> In the fight in Event leviathan Jason accuracy with the guns, and when redirecting the Arrow seems kind of over the top, but you see Bruce, Dick and Damian do stuff like that quite often, so it is believable for me that he can pull that of.
> 
> Manhunter is not really a highly trained fighter, so that Jason can take her in an one-on-one fight is also plausible.
> 
> Green Arrow shoots only two arrows at him, and one seems actually to do what it was supposed to do and to block Jason's gun. And we have seen Jason already pre crisis doing well in fight against the (imo more capable) post OYL Grren Arrow.
> 
> In the Fight with Batman and Robin you can't tell what is going on, but it looked more like Jason somehow got away that he actually beat them in Hand to hand combat.
> ...


Pretty much this, some of the fighters are either not in Jasons league or aren't even around to do much.

Like you said, the biggest seemingly 'op' moments feel like they come from the plastic man moment, which may have been better illustrated if they actually showed that the arrow was some kind of 'trick arrow' that incapacitated him, as is, he really should have been able to bounce back from that.

And the Batman and Robin scene, which is confusing, though I will add that here in this moment:



It looks like Bruce is taking the brunt of the fall for both Damian and Jason, which actually makes that dialogue between Bruce and Damian in the beginning (as incohesive as it is) where Bruce denies 'letting Jason off the hook', make a bit more sense.



and in this scene:



 I don't think it's implying that he bested them in direct hand to hand combat, more so that the water gave Batman a disadvantage.
As confusing as the art makes it to be, I'm pretty sure that last panel with Jason is implying that he has flipped Bruces cape and is incapacitating Batman and Robin by pushing their heads under the water with the added weight of the cape.

I still would liked to see the aftermath of that however, and how he ultimately got away from them, rather than a 'annnnnd et cetera black screen'.



I think the best part of the issue was the conversation between Jason and Lois, it was certainly the most well written part compared to the conversations in the fortress, which all feel way too jumbled, and at least it kept my favorite trend of the last issue going, which was Jason using his detective skills and knowledge. Haven't seen that being used in a long time.

----------


## Sergard

I've read Event Leviathan #3.

I still love Maleev's style and I'm not mad at Bendis' slow pace, for me it's actually relaxing to read while the atmosphere in the story is still tense.

I liked the references to Batman Under the Red Hood: on the cover, a big chasing scene, Red Hood (and others) crashing through a glass ceiling and Red Hood getting away after giving a hint while the chasers are left behind wondering about the true identity of a character.

There are some details I wonder about too but at this point I'd rather like to wait and see how the story progresses and concludes. I'm not even sure, but I could imagine that there's a traitor among the "detectives".  The group acts very unorganized (and more like a group of bullies considering that they didnt have any evidence when confronting Jason, they based their case solely on prejudice).

 I also don't think they trust each other - why should they? Lois Lane's father could be Leviathan, Batman could be somehow involved (Jason mentioned that Bruce had imagined something similar in issue #2), Damian's mother is another Leviathan, Green Arrow should be suspicious too (Damian blames Roy's death for Jason turning into Leviathan, but Green Arrow was also affected by Roy's death), no one knows Manhunter, the Question always stays in the background and is not even in the same room with the others in #3, and Leviathan seems to be very interested in Plastic Man. The scene in the morgue could have been a play-act or Plastic Man has secretly switched sides afterwards.

I'm also not so mad at the majority of the chasing scene. Jason is known as excellent marksman.  He hits Manhunter's staff and Lois Lane's mobile phone. Green Arrow shows the same level of aiming skill in this issue by hitting Jasons gun at the beginning and Manhunters staff at the end. The real BatGod in this issue is Damian. Hes able to ignore the laws of gravity by reaching Jason mid-air  although Jason is way heavier than Damian and therefore should be falling faster. Under water Damian ignores laws of physics again. Damian does not have the muscle weight in order to be an effective fighter under water  but he still hurts Jason by kicking him in the face anyway.

But I understand the point in Plastic Man's case. Maybe the first arrow that hit Plastic Man does the same thing as the last one  shooting a sticky dragnet. I dont know Plastic Mans abilities and therefore cant say if such a gadget would work on Plastic Man or not.

The dialogue between Lois Lane and Jason was interesting. The part with Amanda Waller and Leviathan looks promising (although I don't understand why Superman suddenly pops up and acts like a brainwashed watchdog).

----------


## Sergard

Paz





sferiolla




toixx (from August 2016)

----------


## Zaresh

Ok. You guys made me reevaluate the issue again. I guess I can believe he could really pull scaping them that easily if they acted that uncoordinated. Which, they did, definitely. The issue is still written very, uh, hard to follow. Maybe it's because I'm not a native, but I really had a lot of trouble following the structure of a lot of sentences. And Jason and Leviathan "we" for 'I' here and there didn't help (even if Jason was just imitating their speech  patterns). Neither did helped that Bendis went for a very informal way of speaking, dropping half the elements in a lot of sentences. But I guess, as I said, that that is on me and my level in commanding English, and I'm nitpicking.

I'm wondering, didn't you guys get the feeling as if Oliver were kind of helping Jason in a roundabout way, but on purpose? Maybe he has realized already who Lev is and he's distracting them because they're observing their group. And I had the same feeling with Bruce somehow, as if he wasn't really pursuing Jason.

----------


## redmax99

> Ok. You guys made me reevaluate the issue again. I guess I can believe he could really pull scaping them that easily if they acted that uncoordinated. Which, they did, definitely. The issue is still written very, uh, had to follow. Maybe it's because I'm not a native, but I really had a lot of trouble following the structure of a lot of sentences. And Jason and Leviathan "we" for 'I' here and there didn't help (even if Jason was just imitating their speech  patterns). Neither did helped that Bendis went for a very informal way of speaking, dropping half the elements in a lot of sentences. But I guess, as I said, that that is on me and my level in commanding English, and I'm nitpicking.
> 
> I'm wondering, didn't you guys get the feeling as if Oliver were kind of helping Jason in a roundabout way, but on purpose? Maybe he has realized already who Lev is and he's distracting them because they're observing their group. And I had the same feeling with Bruce somehow, as if he wasn't really pursuing Jason.


it wasn't just you the dialogue is very bad

----------


## Aahz

> HeÂs able to ignore the laws of gravity by reaching Jason mid-air Â although Jason is way heavier than Damian and therefore should be falling faster.


Not necessarily, air resistance is also quite important for the falling speed, thats also often shown Parachuting scenes in action movies. But I doubt that the building was really high enough to pull something like that of, and with his cape, Damian would have probably have quite a heigh air resistance.




> I donÂt know Plastic ManÂs abilities and therefore canÂt say if such a gadget would work on Plastic Man or not.


Afaik his body is basically made of some sort of elastic or viscose plastic. His powers kind of a mixture of Elasticman and and Clayface. He is extremely elastic and can shape shift, and is invulnerable to almost anything apart from heat and chemical solvents. If he had wrapped himself around Jason. Jason wouldn't have been able to do much about it, without the right gadget.

----------


## Sergard

> Fade
> 
> _To celebrate Jays birthday, JJMK and I will make some postcards! We expect it to be 5$, including two postcards plus shipping fee (not selling individually)._ 
> 
> postcard by JJMK
> 
> 
> 
> postcard by Fade


Here's Fade's artwork without the sample text.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> sferiolla


Still my favorite Red Hood costume.

----------


## Sergard

More birthday artwork.

_hian_nm





There are also artworks from the last years that I haven't seen before (it least I can't remember them).

@2017121420171214__ (from 2017)

----------


## Sergard

lemon_mango1 (from 2017)






yottsu (from 2018)

----------


## Sergard

4yottsu (from 2018 - continuation of the artwork above)

----------


## Sergard

4yottsu (from 2018)




Dhoni10Cutter23 (from 2018)




YUNKO (from 2018)

----------


## RedBird

jjmk-jjmk





Dear Jason~♬ Happy birthday to you~♪

----------


## Sergard

@L6BF0bq6MZyVCOC

----------


## Zaresh

> @L6BF0bq6MZyVCOC


Ok, this one is hilarious.

----------


## RedBird

Sferiolla

_Some things never change
_

----------


## G-Potion

> Sferiolla
> 
> _Some things never change
> _


The RH costume looks really really good here.

----------


## G-Potion

> @L6BF0bq6MZyVCOC


The cat eyes on Bat hahaha.

----------


## RedBird

> So do yÂall think Jason is done with Event: Leviathan or will he continue to pop up in the last 3 issues.


Sorry for the slight grievance I'm about to state, but honestly it's always hard to say with comic book writers/editors. In no other medium do I find so so many story lines that are clearly set up and are clearly building to a purpose, to then have absolutely no pay off, and make you feel silly for ever having paid attention. 

So with benefit of the doubt in mind, unless this is just some kind of pacing issue, it would honestly feel strange to me for Jason to show up for one third of an event and not have any other role besides being a nod to readers in saying, 'hey, I know everyone and their mother thinks it's me, but its not this time, mkay'. If that's all Bendis wanted to get across, he could have done so in a handful of panels rather than two whole issues in a six issue event. Jason being specifically set up and focused on as a target makes me think Leviathan is someone _he_ knows as well. It lends a bit more credence to the Roy theory. In fact that's another thing the writing keeps hearkening back to, that fact that 'Red Hoods best friend was killed', that Jason is doing this because he is 'grieving for Roy'. Jason has had a history with whats perceived as a 'morally grey' sense of justice in the community for a while, it's even pointed out in issue #3 that this plan seems like something right up his alley, so what does Roy's death have anything to do with it? If he is Leviathan, why are his actions being explained away by his grief for a friend all of a sudden, rather than the more direct answer that this sounds like his kinda shtick? Unless of course we have to foreshadow Roy somehow.....

So yeah, unless Jason shows up in the following issues and has _some_ kinda role, or some kind of personal connection to Leviathan, or IS Leviathan, or at the very very VERY least Bruce has some kind of connection to Leviathan, (which would make the fact that L made Bruce chase J around as some kind of purposeful emotional manipulation to hurt B and maybe J etc) then yeah, otherwise the last two issues I think (outside of their nice Jason characterization) were a glorious waste of time and bad pacing for such an already short event.

----------


## RedBird

> The RH costume looks really really good here.


I thought so too  :Smile: 

Now that Woods has left the title, I'm super curious to see how other artists render the outfit.

----------


## RedBird

> YUNKO (from 2018)


I really really want that little fat JayBird Bird on the top right as a plushie.

----------


## RedBird

SdimoBakto

----------


## RedBird

oOYeon__

----------


## RedBird

milltofu

----------


## RedBird

hexwake

----------


## RedBird

A_Y1ng

----------


## RedBird

inkydandy

----------


## RedBird

m-alejandrita

----------


## RedBird



----------


## RedBird

_Happy Jay day!_

----------


## RedBird

02png

_Thank you for being born._

----------


## RedBird

moon115115

----------


## RedBird

Lurenxian

_Have a good dream，Jason_

----------


## Sergard

@Redbird: Thanks for sharing all those beautiful artworks.  :Smile: 






> [...]
> *
> I'm wondering, didn't you guys get the feeling as if Oliver were kind of helping Jason in a roundabout way, but on purpose?* Maybe he has realized already who Lev is and he's distracting them because they're observing their group. And I had the same feeling with Bruce somehow, as if he wasn't really pursuing Jason.


Ollie's arrows helped Jason a lot. It's hard to say if Green Arrow helped him on purpose or if Jason just knows the arrow models because Roy probably invented them.
But Green Arrow is still a prime suspect for me. He was so devastated at Roy's funeral and at the end of Green Arrow #50 he seemed even more angry at the Justice League after opening a mysterious box.
(Which reminds me that we still don't know what's inside Jason's own mystery box from the Teen Titans Annual #1).

Maybe that's also why The Question stayed behind and didn't participate in the chase - so he could observe his "teammates". The three most suspicious ones are in my opinion Green Arrow, Plastic Man and Batman - Green Arrow because his attacks actually helped Jason to escape, Plastic Man because he didn't really fight and Batman because he tried to stop Damian.
Or maybe The Question isn't a fighter. I don't really know the character. I only know from hearsay that he's one of the best detectives in the DC universe, right?

I also wonder if the dialogue between Jason and Lois Lane could be a reference to Countdown when Jimmy Olsen interviews Jason about Duela Kent's (Joker's daughter) death.








> [...]
> 
> Afaik his body is basically made of some sort of elastic or viscose plastic. His powers kind of a mixture of Elasticman and and Clayface. He is extremely elastic and can shape shift, and is invulnerable to almost anything apart from heat and chemical solvents. If he had wrapped himself around Jason. Jason wouldn't have been able to do much about it, without the right gadget.


Thanks for the information.  :Smile:

----------


## RedBird

hairlosseveryday



Damn, I really love this style. A+ rendering of illustrated character.

----------


## Aahz

> Or maybe The Question isn't a fighter. I don't really know the character.


The pre flashpoint Version was trained by at some point Richard Dragon, which turned him into a capable fighter (among the detectives in Event Levithan he is probably in Hand to Hand combat the second best after Batman), and his path crossed few times with Lady Shiva. 
But I have no idea if that is still canon.

----------


## RedBird

samysamsamarts

_HAPPY BIRTHDAY JASON TODD!!_

----------


## Zaresh

_(Brace yourselves! Your typical librarian rambling coming through)_

So... I finally bought my Outlaw trade and it seems that the paper is matte instead of satin. Apparently I missed that DC switched to matte paper for their trades about a year ago, somehow.

I wouldn't mind —if anything, matte paper always makes for a better reading. But the thing is... the quality of the paper is worse. I'm pretty sure that the paper now is slightly lighter than previously (when it should be the same or even thicker as far as I know); and no glossy varnish means it's less protected. I'm not complaining much, because those editions are cheap after all, but, eh... I am pretty sensible towards paper quality, because I don't want my purchases to be ruined after a decade because the damage humidity and / or sunlight caused in my stored books.

(Oh, BTW. It seems that the official name for the Su sisters is "Familia de Flores". I guess Lobdell likes Spanish, either that or the Su sisters are hispanic).

----------


## Sergard

posted by Fade (artist: @dotsooon)






Paz (@ivokiku)

----------


## Jackalope89



----------


## Sergard

yanagi





vaelhalla




dreamer_247

----------


## Jackalope89

> yanagi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vaelhalla
> 
> 
> ...


Not something you hear everyday, and yet, so true. lol

----------


## Sergard

Paz (@ivokiku)




Esteban Ponciano (based on Event Leviathan #2)



colored version

----------


## Zaresh

> Paz (@ivokiku)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esteban Ponciano (based on Event Leviathan #2)
> 
> 
> 
> colored version


Wow! I'm following the second artist about right now. That colouring is simple, but very, very stylish.

----------


## Sergard

onipilot




neebeom




Nao (@egdr)

----------


## RedBird

jjmk-jjmk

The jjmk-jjmk Jason's birthday postcard.

----------


## RedBird

> @Redbird: Thanks for sharing all those beautiful artworks.


No prob, and right back at you Sergard!
Thanks for _always_ filling this thread with lovely art  :Smile:

----------


## Sergard

> There is a big Rebirth sale on Comixology right now so I just picked up the latest trade for more than 50 % off.


I bought it too. (Thanks for mentioning it.  :Smile: )
I already own a physical copy but it's also nice to have a digital version. Thankfully, there are sales on readDC/Comixology regularly.





> _(Brace yourselves! Your typical librarian rambling coming through)_
> 
> So... I finally bought my Outlaw trade and it seems that the paper is matte instead of satin. Apparently I missed that DC switched to matte paper for their trades about a year ago, somehow.
> 
> I wouldn't mind if anything, matte paper always makes for a better reading. But the thing is... the quality of the paper is worse. I'm pretty sure that the paper now is slightly lighter than previously (when it should be the same or even thicker as far as I know); and no glossy varnish means it's less protected. I'm not complaining much, because those editions are cheap after all, but, eh... I am pretty sensible towards paper quality, because I don't want my purchases to be ruined after a decade because the damage humidity and / or sunlight caused in my stored books.
> 
> (Oh, BTW. It seems that the official name for the Su sisters is "Familia de Flores". I guess Lobdell likes Spanish, either that or the Su sisters are hispanic).


Seems like DC wants to save some money by lowering the quality of their trades?
The "Familia de Flores" is only mentioned on Rocafort's character design of Suzie's four sisters, right? I can't remember them being called Familia de Flores in the comic.


Another birthday fanart:

no_CH_ka

----------


## Zaresh

> Seems like DC wants to save some money by lowering the quality of their trades?
> The "Familia de Flores" is only mentioned on Rocafort's character design of Suzie's four sisters, right? I can't remember them being called Familia de Flores in the comic.


Yeah, as far as I know, it's the only place. But I'm guessing the name came from the writer and not the conceptual artist.

----------


## Aahz

https://damian-lil-babybat.tumblr.co...4376267/a-baby

----------


## RedBird

> The "Familia de Flores" is only mentioned on Rocafort's character design of Suzie's four sisters, right? I can't remember them being called Familia de Flores in the comic.


To my knowledge, the name is mentioned at least once in the 2011 run of RHATO, in issue #8.

----------


## Zaresh

> To my knowledge, the name is mentioned at least once in the 2011 run of RHATO, in issue #8.


Oops! I didn't remember that. Thanks, @RedBird.

----------


## gohei_

> I bought it too. (Thanks for mentioning it. )
> I already own a physical copy but it's also nice to have a digital version. Thankfully, there are sales on readDC/Comixology regularly.


Yeah I never pay full price for trades on there because they have sales like all the time.

Regarding the book, a couple of thoughts: I'm not a fan of the new suit, like at all, except the Han Solo pants lol. The story is good though even though I miss Biz and Artemis.
I don't know if they show up more in later issues prior to their return but I always thought it would be fun if when they reunite with Jason both Biz and Artemis have 2 completely different stories about what happened to them, or that they just keep on babbling on and not making any sense, ending with all of them just shrugging it all off and leaving their "adventure" in mystery.

----------


## Sergard

Lele Lenore Art [1/2]

----------


## Sergard

Lele Lenore Art [2/2]

----------


## Jackalope89



----------


## kaimaciel

> Lele Lenore Art [2/2]


The last one actually made me tear up.

----------


## Sergard

DaPandaBanda

----------


## Sergard

GGRea





beside seaside



Akoichoi

----------


## Sergard

@oldwhitebox






@BlancheCangyun

----------


## Sergard

@rien0408






REINCAO

----------


## Sergard

cath (@kingofalmyra)



DkWayne03 

_happy birthday Jason and Damian!! I know Dami doesn't have an official bday but I wanted to draw him smt soooo..._

----------


## Sergard

@HJB_dc00




@xingyue_413

----------


## Sergard

doc-squash

_Jason *sobbing*: Oh my god, you know me so well_




doc-squash

_Jasons late night visitor._




hexwake

_Unconventional Family_

----------


## Sergard

whispers in your ears

_It’s someone’s birthday ~_

----------


## RedBird

nebeauxla



_happy birthday, jason todd!_

----------


## RedBird

inihiu

----------


## RedBird

vorimar

----------


## RedBird

whipbogard



_Happy Birthday, Jason Peter Todd! ♥_

----------


## Sergard

gothamtwinks

_Happy birthday to the best boy in the world_





cassiestephensart

_Lets pretend for the day, that when Bruce carried Jason home that night, he was sleeping.  
Happy Birthday Jason_




sugar_hydrangea

----------


## Sergard

rin (@komieci)

----------


## Sergard

BX





bluetost_T

----------


## Sergard

RedRidingHood




@bingsu_up




nockuth

----------


## Sergard

Today I have received my copy of the _DC Comics Ultimate Character Guide New Edition_ (which isn't very "ultimate" at all)
Here are the entries for our three Outlaws. (Sorry for the bad quality. But everything should be readable at least.)
*
Jason Todd/Red Hood*





*Artemis*




*
Bizarro*

----------


## Jackalope89

You know what would have been fun?

10 year old Jon Kent meeting Biz and technically being the older brother. Would have been a fun interaction.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Today I have received my copy of the _DC Comics Ultimate Character Guide New Edition_ (which isn't very "ultimate" at all)
> Here are the entries for our three Outlaws. (Sorry for the bad quality. But everything should be readable at least.)
> *
> Jason Todd/Red Hood*


Seems like they wrote the entry with Camuncolli's costume in mind and swapped it with Woods' at the last second. Those descriptions about the hood and the symbol make no sense with Woods' costume. Does Roy have an entry?

----------


## Arsenal

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. That definitely wasnt written with the Woods suit in mind.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Today I have received my copy of the _DC Comics Ultimate Character Guide New Edition_ (which isn't very "ultimate" at all)
> Here are the entries for our three Outlaws. (Sorry for the bad quality. But everything should be readable at least.)
> *
> Jason Todd/Red Hood*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Did they update this every story arc or is this the first Rebirth version?
Oh, and could you please look Dick up for me? Looking at Jason, I'm wondering if he's portrayed as Nightwing or Ric because if it's the latter I'm ready to throw hands

----------


## Zaresh

> Did they update this every story arc or is this the first Rebirth version?
> Oh, and could you please look Dick up for me? Looking at Jason, I'm wondering if he's portrayed as Nightwing or Ric because if it's the latter I'm ready to throw hands


Seems to me that they just mix the most widespread info about the characters at the moment and go with it. Jason wasn't resurrected by the pit, and his all-blades were neither (for me, at least) a gift nor from the League. It's not really too accurate, I think.

----------


## Sergard

Kao

_#jasontodd #redhood birthday wip_




momon




Aka

----------


## Sergard

> Seems like they wrote the entry with Camuncolli's costume in mind and swapped it with Woods' at the last second. Those descriptions about the hood and the symbol make no sense with Woods' costume. *Does Roy have an entry*?


Yes, but it doesn't mention the Outlaws at all. (Same for Starfire)






> Did they update this every story arc or is this the first Rebirth version?
> Oh, and could you please look Dick up for me? Looking at Jason, I'm wondering if he's portrayed as Nightwing or Ric because if it's the latter I'm ready to throw hands


The _DC Comics Ultimate Character Guide New Edition_ was released in March 2019. It's the first Character Guide since Rebirth started and the entries - as short as they are - mostly only mention current stuff/the bare minimum you need to know for the Rebirth depiction of the character.

Dick is portrayed as Nightwing (Name: Richard "Dick" Grayson). Ric isn't even mentioned. But I also don't think that Ric was a thing when the Character Guide was created. At least the Red Hood text indicates that Jason was still wearing his first Rebirth outfit back then and that his current outfit was a last minute change without checking if the text boxes are still consistent with the artwork.

----------


## RedBird

Sen_2324

----------


## RedBird

twofrog1

----------


## RedBird

toi139

----------


## Sergard

Here's the finalized cover of Red Hood: Outlaw #37.



Summary:




> Leave it to Red Hood to get Lex Luthors strangest offer of all: to train the next generation of super-villains! Hand-picked for their incredible talents, not to mention their potential to spread villainy and doom across the globe. As the only super-villain in the world to have trained under Batman himself, Red Hood is the ideal instructor. But has Jason Todd fallen so far that hed take on the task of forging tomorrows Legion of Doom or Crime Syndicateor is he trying to work from within to undermine Lexs villainous machinations? Even if Red Hoods heart is in the right place, he still has to butt heads with his powerful and dangerous new pupils. Grab some ammo and settle in for the beginning of the next generation of Outlaws!

----------


## Sergard

blackdahlia (from 2018)




Javchan




KABE (from 2018)

----------


## Sergard

KABE _One late Happy Birthday to my dear Jay._ (from 2018)




bluetost_T

----------


## lemonpeace

I think Christopher Priest should take a crack at Red Hood next after his Deathstroke run. I think Preist's style could compliment the character and play with Jason's moral ambiguity in interesting ways we haven't seen before.

----------


## Zaresh

I would try Warren Ellis, but that's probably me just being me, as always. Yeah, I'm a fan.
Priest wouldn't be a bad choice, I think.

But after Lobdell is done with the story he's working on. I hate when writers cannot finish their stories.

----------


## Sergard

> I would try Warren Ellis, but that's probably me just being me, as always. Yeah, I'm a fan.
> Priest wouldn't be a bad choice, I think.
> 
> *But after Lobdell is done with the story he's working on. I hate when writers cannot finish their stories.*


I second that.
Although I'd prefer Priest to write a Wallace West solo next. In his last interview Priest seemed really excited about the character.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I would try Warren Ellis, but that's probably me just being me, as always. Yeah, I'm a fan.
> Priest wouldn't be a bad choice, I think.
> 
> *But after Lobdell is done with the story he's working on. I hate when writers cannot finish their stories.*


I agree as well. And from what Lobdell has said he has planned, barring anymore editorial interference, sounds pretty good.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Yes, but it doesn't mention the Outlaws at all. (Same for Starfire)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The _DC Comics Ultimate Character Guide New Edition_ was released in March 2019. It's the first Character Guide since Rebirth started and the entries - as short as they are - mostly only mention current stuff/the bare minimum you need to know for the Rebirth depiction of the character.
> 
> Dick is portrayed as Nightwing (Name: Richard "Dick" Grayson). Ric isn't even mentioned. But I also don't think that Ric was a thing when the Character Guide was created. At least the Red Hood text indicates that Jason was still wearing his first Rebirth outfit back then and that his current outfit was a last minute change without checking if the text boxes are still consistent with the artwork.


Yeah, Ric started in October.

About Roy and Starfire... I guess similar with their Rebirth appearances, DC want to disassociate them with Outlaws. At first, even Jason started with "I never had friends before Bizarro" or something like that. It wasn't until after the first arc, I think, did the book mention any relation to Roy and Kori, and other books haven't mentioned them.

----------


## Zaresh

> Yeah, Ric started in October.
> 
> About Roy and Starfire... I guess similar with their Rebirth appearances, DC want to disassociate them with Outlaws. At first, even Jason started with "I never had friends before Bizarro" or something like that. It wasn't until after the first arc, I think, did the book mention any relation to Roy and Kori, and other books haven't mentioned them.


Jason was mentined as Roy's trusted contact in Heroes in Crisis, and Roy mentioned his association with Jason in Green Arrow just before HiC started. And again, their relationship has been a point in Event Leviathan. So at least, as far as Roy and Jason goes, DC doesn't seem to want to erase their envolvement. I would say they want even the contrary, actually: to reinforce their link. Also, Jason did mentioned Kori and Roy in his own book, as friends. He just added that things ended in not-entirely good terms, which is true for Roy, and Kori may as well.

Kori seems to be the one DC doesn't akcnowledge as a team mate. But if they do it for Roy...

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Yeah, the little fallout there's been for Roy's death has been about how Jason was devastated by it. Even the promotional stuff leading to HiC (and Roy's demise) made a point of highlight the fact Roy and Jason were each other's best friends.

----------


## Aahz

I guess they were going with titans over Outlaws in the Guide, because he was a member of that team when the Guide was written, and he has after all a much longer history (all the way back to the 60s) as Titan than as Outlaw.

Making two of Dicks closest friend Jason's team mates was allways a liitle bit problematic because of that.

----------


## Sergard

Some more entries from the _DC Comics Ultimate Character Guide New Edition_ that mention Jason Todd/Red Hood/Outlaws:

*Solomon Grundy*




*Talia Al Ghul*




*Circe
*

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I hate the way they treat the League and the All-Caste as the same organization.

----------


## Sergard

*Joker*




*Ra's Al Ghul*





The Red Robin ("Batman's Detective Heir") entry also mentions Jason but only indirectly: "_Tim Drake is a young man with an incredible investigative mind. He impresses Batman by deducing not only his secret identity but also those of Dick Grayson and Jason Todd._"

And in case someone wonders: There is no entry for Black Mask.

----------


## Jackalope89

> *Joker*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Ra's Al Ghul*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well duh! You don't make a profile for Hood's warm-up villain.

----------


## Zaresh

> Well duh! You don't make a profile for Hood's warm-up villain.


Black Mask is a known villain of Batman and Robin. A second rate villain, but known enough nonetheless, I think. Well, maybe. I don't really know, maybe I'm under the wrong impression \o/.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Black Mask is a known villain of Batman and Robin. A second rate villain, but known enough nonetheless, I think. Well, maybe. I don't really know, maybe I'm under the wrong impression \o/.


Pre-Flashpoint, he nearly killed Steph. Shortly after, Jason came in and basically destroyed his empire from the ground up, either by taking those that worked for him or killing those that wouldn't defect in UTRH. Basically unintentionally avenging Steph (and I believe Selina delivered the killing blow to Black Mask later). 

In Rebirth, Mask had some device in the Mayor that Jason neutralized under the guise of shooting him. Then Mask tried to use Biz for a puppet, which then backfired, and last we saw, Black Mask was in Ma Gunn's care. Alive, but essentially a vegetable. Due to his own actions.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Pre-Flashpoint, he nearly killed Steph. Shortly after, Jason came in and basically destroyed his empire from the ground up, either by taking those that worked for him or killing those that wouldn't defect in UTRH. Basically unintentionally avenging Steph (and I believe Selina delivered the killing blow to Black Mask later). 
> 
> In Rebirth, Mask had some device in the Mayor that Jason neutralized under the guise of shooting him. Then Mask tried to use Biz for a puppet, which then backfired, and last we saw, Black Mask was in Ma Gunn's care. Alive, but essentially a vegetable. Due to his own actions.


Yeah, Black Mask tortured Selina's sister if I'm not mistaken by murdering her husband(?) in front of her and forced her to eat his eyeball. Drove her insane and she became a villain herself after that. Selina shot him, but he came back during Blackest Night as a zombie. After that Jeremiah Arkham became Black Mask II. Since the New 52 though a lot of his most heinous crime were erased so he doesn't stand out as before.

Last I saw Black Mask is in Damian's secret prison.

----------


## Zaresh

He showed up in Batman recently, I think, like three issues ago or so. I remember people pointing out about noone caring for continuity between books because of that, and that it was just to be expected after what happened with Penguin. But maybe  I'm remembering wrong.

----------


## Sergard

> Yeah, Black Mask tortured Selina's sister if I'm not mistaken by murdering her husband(?) in front of her and forced her to eat his eyeball. Drove her insane and she became a villain herself after that. Selina shot him, but he came back during Blackest Night as a zombie. After that Jeremiah Arkham became Black Mask II. Since the New 52 though a lot of his most heinous crime were erased so he doesn't stand out as before.
> 
> Last I saw Black Mask is in Damian's secret prison.


Isn't the eyeball thing still canon? It was mentioned in the current Catwoman run if I recall correctly when Selina visited her sister.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Isn't the eyeball thing still canon? It was mentioned in the current Catwoman run if I recall correctly when Selina visited her sister.


*Tired "Ugh"*. Was it? They kinda just bring back things here and there with no fanfare it's impossible to keep track. I know they bring back her sister but I don't know in what context.

----------


## Sergard

Fleet of Red

_A nice birthday surprise for #JasonTodd! This team reunion is gonna happen soon in the #RHatO comic, I can taste it!_






Fleet of Red

----------


## Sergard

(continuation)

----------


## Sergard

Ceriky





Ceriky




Ceriky (pose reference: Barry holding Wally's dead body in Heroes in Crisis)

----------


## Sergard

Ceriky




Ceriky

----------


## Sergard

Ceriky

----------


## Sergard

iggy

_It's his party and he'll eat cake like a heathen if he wants to~ _ 





BatFam Fashion Zine GOTHAM BOLD

_Contributor Spotlight #35: Stiles! Follow at @li_nnie_




Dima Ivanov

----------


## G-Potion

> (continuation)


Haha even the logo looks like a broken heart.

----------


## Sergard

Troye _Happy birthday to my babe._




Troye (from 2018)




Troye (from May 2018)

----------


## Zaresh

> (continuation)


Ha ha ha ha ha. Grande, this comic strep is hilarious.

----------


## lemonpeace

> *Joker*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Ra's Al Ghul*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know this is tangential: is there an entry on Duke Thomas?

----------


## Sergard

Paz(@ivokiku)





@fishghost91




Akoichoi

----------


## Sergard

> I know this is tangential: is there an entry on Duke Thomas?


Yes, there is.






I also noticed that Cheshire lists the Outlaws as one of her main foes:






On another note: LEGO® DC Super-Villains is 60% off on Steam. Since I decided to ignore DC comics this week I'm considering playing the game as an alternative.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Review of the Mattel Multiverse Red Hood




Besides the utterly baffling decision of making the guns part of the belt and not including guns whatsoever (despite having a set of hands to hold guns) is a pretty nice figure. I'm still expecting the Essentials one to be THE definitive Jason figure though.

----------


## lemonpeace

> Yes, there is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also noticed that Cheshire lists the Outlaws as one of her main foes:
> 
> ...


cool beans, interesting they didn't put The Outsiders as an affiliation. I guess it was released before he official was an Outsider. Anyway, thanks man good looks!

----------


## Sergard

nako




Tamjah




Nachte

----------


## Zaresh

> On another note: LEGO® DC Super-Villains is 60% off on Steam. Since I decided to ignore DC comics this week I'm considering playing the game as an alternative.


It's a good game. It's fun, and visually speaking, the prettiest so far. Its  story is also funny and the Little Gotham that you navigate is neat.

----------


## Sergard

> cool beans, interesting they didn't put The Outsiders as an affiliation. I guess it was released before he official was an Outsider. Anyway, thanks man good looks!


Selina's entry mentions Bruce proposing to her and Joker is mad in his entry because he isn't invited to the wedding - so my guess is that the entry texts were finished by summer 2018. This would coincide with the Red Hood entry because the artwork seems to be a last minute change from the old to the current costume.

Black Lightning, Cassandra and Katana also don't mention the Outsiders. There is no entry for Gnomon.

----------


## Aahz

> cool beans, interesting they didn't put The Outsiders as an affiliation. I guess it was released before he official was an Outsider. Anyway, thanks man good looks!


I think the book came out before they launched Batman and the Outsiders.
And considering why much they probably need to to put such a book together, and that the book is not Published by DC, it seem pretty up to date.

But Tim is for example also still listed as Red Robin, and Young Justice is also not mentioned.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

https://twitter.com/Mitografia/statu...73980886872064

Here's Babe in Arms

67077309_207856056872115_584869676643209533_n.jpg

----------


## Sergard

> https://twitter.com/Mitografia/statu...73980886872064
> 
> Here's Babe in Arms
> 
> 67077309_207856056872115_584869676643209533_n.jpg


You forgot the other artwork:



I didn't know that the bandaged character is female. Interesting. Could she be the mother?


Am I the only one who saw the Mortal Kombat 11 Kombat Pack – Official Roster Reveal Trailer 





and thought about this scene from RHatO?

----------


## Restingvoice

> You forgot the other artwork:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't know that the bandaged character is female. Interesting. Could she be the mother?
> 
> 
> Am I the only one who saw the Mortal Kombat 11 Kombat Pack – Official Roster Reveal Trailer 
> 
> ...


Joker?! Really?! Kinda underwhelming.

That panel was the one where I thought he never mentioned Roy in Rebirth until later, but apparently, he did.

----------


## Sergard

> Joker?! Really?! Kinda underwhelming.
> 
> That panel was the one where I thought he never mentioned Roy in Rebirth until later, but apparently, he did.


I hope they fix Joker's design. His character will be released at the end of January. So there is a little bit of time left to make him look more like himself.



Has anyone else read Black Mask: Year of the Villain yet? There is a scene similar to one in RHatO and I don't know if Tom Taylor and Cully Hamner deliberately reference it or if the similarity is a coincidence.

Black Mask Year of the Villain panel.jpg

Major spoiler:

*spoilers:*
The man is Black Mask in disguise.
*end of spoilers*

RHatO #1:

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I didn't know that the bandaged character is female. Interesting. Could she be the mother?


She is. Lobdell said during that podcast that the woman is Babe's Mother's dead body reanimated by one of Babe's inventions.




> Has anyone else read Black Mask: Year of the Villain yet? There is a scene similar to one in RHatO and I don't know if Tom Taylor and Cully Hamner deliberately reference it or if the similarity is a coincidence.


I doubt it. There's only so much action sequences you can do inside a car.

----------


## Sergard

> She is. Lobdell said during that podcast that the woman is Babe's Mother's dead body reanimated by one of Babe's inventions.


So she's just a puppet or does she still have a "soul"?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Puppet, going by Lobdell's words.

----------


## Sergard

> Puppet, going by Lobdell's words.


That sounds extremely sad.



Here's another accidentally similar scene. This time between RH:O #30 and Detective Comics #1009. Some user on Twitter pointed it out.

----------


## Korath

One more design of Jason's students :

----------


## Sergard

Paz(@ivokiku)




Jarrulus




Akoichoi

----------


## Jackalope89

> Paz(@ivokiku)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jarrulus
> 
> 
> 
> ...


"Uh, Artemis?"

"Hush little one. Only a few more jumps until we get to our target."

----------


## Sergard

> One more design of Jason's students :


So far I love all the characters and their designs. Lobdell and Rocafort did a great job in creating something modern that feels like a breath of fresh air. There is so much diversity in this group of characters. It's a good mix of different ethnicities, genders, personalities and probably moralities too. But despite or even because of all those differences I feel like this group will have a great dynamic.
I'm actually surprised that Lobdell made Bunker leave. I feel like Bunker would have been a great addition in the upcoming story arc.

----------


## Korath

I think Bunker is a good guy at heart and wouldn't have worked with it.

Also, Cloud 9 full shot  :

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> So far I love all the characters and their designs. Lobdell and Rocafort did a great job in creating something modern that feels like a breath of fresh air. There is so much diversity in this group of characters. It's a good mix of different ethnicities, genders, personalities and probably moralities too. But despite or even because of all those differences I feel like this group will have a great dynamic.
> I'm actually surprised that Lobdell made Bunker leave. I feel like Bunker would have been a great addition in the upcoming story arc.


No matter what you think about Lobdell, it has to acknowledge him as one of the few creators that create new characters without using pre-existent characters as a crutch. And for the most part, the characters he makes are pretty distinctive and as you point out, diverse. I'd even argue that his creations are more earnest in that front.

----------


## Zaresh

> I think Bunker is a good guy at heart and wouldn't have worked with it.
> 
> Also, Cloud 9 full shot  :


I love this design, to be honest. It's fun, silly and flashy: feels as if Harley had passed through a Borderlands universe or something (with some new brand siren powers). Lovely.

----------


## RedBird

> I love this design, to be honest. It's fun, silly and flashy: feels as if Harley had passed through a *Borderlands* universe or something (with some new brand siren powers). Lovely.


AH! That's it! I was wondering what on Earth her design was reminding me off, yeah she does have a kinda borderlands Siren vibe.
I was assuming she was an empath/telepath based on the name, but I wonder if she has some kind of elemental or weather powers as well, based on that image.

----------


## Zaresh

> AH! That's it! I was wondering what on Earth her design was reminding me off, yeah she does have a kinda borderlands Siren vibe.
> I was assuming she was an empath/telepath based on the name, but I wonder if she has some kind of elemental or weather powers as well, based on that image.


I have no idea, honestly. Could be a mixed powerset of both, empathy-esque and weather powers. I was wondering the logic behind the name. Babe in Arms is a wordplay, I guess (because, well, we have a babe in arms but he's also a bellicose baby). I can't think of a proper wordplay behind, but it could be some reference to the Ninth Heaven, I guess.

----------


## Sergard

> I have no idea, honestly. Could be a mixed powerset of both, empathy-esque and weather powers. I was wondering the logic behind the name. Babe in Arms is a wordplay, I guess (because, well, we have a babe in arms but he's also a bellicose baby). I can't think of a proper wordplay behind, but it could be some reference to the Ninth Heaven, I guess.


The wordplay is "to be on cloud nine". In the preview Cloud Nine reads a book with the title "Your Romance" (probably a romance book). And she fake-flirts with Red Hood. So I guess she's into romance stuff.

----------


## Zaresh

> The wordplay is "*to be on cloud nine*". In the preview Cloud Nine reads a book with the title "Your Romance" (probably a romance book). And she fake-flirts with Red Hood. So I guess she's into romance stuff.


So that's the phrase I didn't know about that was working there. Thanks!

----------


## Sergard

> So that's the phrase I didn't know about that was working there. Thanks!


I had to google it because I was confused too. In my native language the phrase goes "to be on cloud seven".
And when searching for the origin of cloud nine there are different sources. Some state that it was originally called cloud seven, then later cloud eight and now we have cloud nine.

----------


## Zaresh

> I had to google it because I was confused too. In my native language the phrase goes "to be on cloud seven".
> And when searching for the origin of cloud nine there are different sources. Some state that it was originally called cloud seven, then later cloud eight and now we have cloud nine.


Ha ha. In my own, it's "to be in the Seventh Heaven", which apparently has an almost perfect mirror in English, it seems.

----------


## OBrianTallent

To be on Cloud Nine is to be happy, joyful to the point of being giddy.  I'm guessing her powers will deal with some kind of emotional manipulation to make one passive and giddy?

----------


## Sergard

For a short moment I thought the knife in the RH:O #37 preview is the one from #27. But it's a completely different design.







I also wonder if Jason gave Manhunter's staff back at the end of Event Leviathan #3
 - and if it would be considered cannibalism or not if Devour ate Cyborg's metal parts.

----------


## Sergard

And the journey of Detective Pikabat continues. (by evinist)

part 17





part 18




part 19

----------


## Zaresh

> I also wonder if Jason gave Manhunter's staff back at the end of Event Leviathan #3
>  - and if it would be considered cannibalism or not if Devour ate Cyborg's metal parts.


Our thread, I love our thread. One of the best threads of all the forum, imho, because you guys keep posting priceless commentary xD.

Edit: that pokémon series is getting better and better, ha ha.

----------


## Sergard

@mcmramcm




@mcmramcm




02(@02png)

----------


## Sergard

Paz(@ivokiku)




Paz(@ivokiku)



AJ(@AAAjiang) (from 2014)

----------


## Aahz

> For a short moment I thought the knife in the RH:O #37 preview is the one from #27. But it's a completely different design.


it looks like the knife from the UtRH movie.

----------


## Sergard

> Our thread, I love our thread. One of the best threads of all the forum, imho, because you guys keep posting priceless commentary xD.
> 
> Edit: that pokémon series is getting better and better, ha ha.


I love our thread too.  :Big Grin: 




> it looks like the knife from the UtRH movie.


I think you are right. It has nearly the same shape (the comic version looks slimmer). The design is a little different but that's normal. Comics tend to be more detailed compared to simplified movie designs.

[IMG]https://i.*****.com/vi/KoH12YfsoiI/hqdefault.jpg[/IMG]

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Not the first time Rocafort has referenced Jason's knives on his art.

----------


## Sergard

> Not the first time Rocafort has referenced Jason's knives on his art.


Oh, I didn't know that Jason's post-crisis flame dagger exists in current continuity.
Looking at this page, Suzie Su has come a really long way since the start of New52.
I can't remember her father ever appearing in comics, feels like an unresolved plot line.

----------


## Sergard

RedRidingHood




Jave-chan

----------


## Sergard

The fanfic author Lysical has updated their story _we're not calling it a space gang_.
It's a nice fun story about Jason, Artemis, Bizarro and Kyle Rayner having a space adventure.


And here are some fanarts by A Potato(@absolute-0zero)

@absolute-0zero




@absolute-0zero (follow link for Dick and Tim's design)




@absolute-0zero

_Damian got a new pet. Jason WAS down Until it starting drooling on him._

----------


## Sergard

@absolute-0zero




@absolute-0zero Robin Jason



@absolute-0zero

----------


## Zaresh

> The fanfic author Lysical has updated their story _we're not calling it a space gang_.
> It's a nice fun story about Jason, Artemis, Bizarro and Kyle Rayner having a space adventure.


Neat. And thanks! I'll subscribe. I've got a few good ones already in my following list, and a few others saved for an upcoming update (when some of them are safely finished).

----------


## Jackalope89

Yeah, just saw space gang myself. Nice to see a story centered around the Rebirth Outlaws.

And throwing in pre-Flashpoint's multiversal trio is rather interesting too. 

And I have to ask; where do people get the Jason/Kyle thing? I like to read comments, saw someone post that, and have seen other stories push it too.

----------


## Zaresh

> Yeah, just saw space gang myself. Nice to see a story centered around the Rebirth Outlaws.
> 
> And throwing in pre-Flashpoint's multiversal trio is rather interesting too. 
> 
> And I have to ask; where do people get the Jason/Kyle thing? I like to read comments, saw someone post that, and have seen other stories push it too.


Hmmm... Besides the Challengers team up, there is nothing else to my knowledge. There, they were belligerent towards each other, but you know how this works with fans: if they seem to be constantly at odds, they must really like each other... or something. They make for a nice dynamic, or an entertaining one; that's it. And they both may have some sparse common ground I guess? Kyle has a lot of bad luck, and often gets the stuff he involves himself with messed up, as far as I know: I think he may be a badass underdog, much like Jason, when he's not depicted as some awesome chosen one by the powers that be (which also happens a lot). This is my understanding at least.

----------


## Talon1load

Jason and Kyle were teamed up in the Countdown series but that's the only thing I remember them really interacting in.  I wouldn't mind seeing Kyle join the Outlaws.  That could be kind of cool and give him something to actually do.  Before Young Justice came back I thought Superboy (Conner) would be a cool addition too but I guess he'd be redundant with Bizarro.  They could form thier own dark Justice League.  I'd read that book.

----------


## Sergard

Kenneth Rocafort

_This Wednesday, August 28th I will be at 4 COLOR FANTASIES. Is the release day of RED HOOD OUTLAW 37. You can see the original art of the whole issue 37. See you there._

----------


## Sergard

(continuation)

----------


## Sergard

saNe(@Dumanisane)





Amandaw(@awpandart)




Virtual_Mockingbird

----------


## Sergard

MON(@_monitter)

----------


## RedBird

Dexter Soy

_on an iron bull_

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I'm really, really hoping for Dexter to return to the book now that Woods is gone.

----------


## Sergard

JJMK





Fade

----------


## Sergard

4 Color Fantasies

_This Wednesday 8/28 11am-3pm join @ScottyLobdell @Mitografia and @philipsytan for Red Hood Outlaw #37 Year of the Villain. #dccomics_

----------


## Sergard

Titans Season 2 Full Trailer | DC Universe | The Ultimate Membership

_"Sooner or later the past will come knocking. The TITANS are ready to answer. Season 2 premieres September 6."_

----------


## Zaresh

> Titans Season 2 Full Trailer | DC Universe | The Ultimate Membership
> 
> _"Sooner or later the past will come knocking. The TITANS are ready to answer. Season 2 premieres September 6."_


Well, there is a lot of plot in that trailer. A lot going on. This season is going to be busy, I guess that's the word.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Goddammit.

----------


## Zaresh

> Goddammit.


I wouldn't put too much thought to it. I'm guessing they just draw every known character that accepted Lex' gift or something like that, without any other thought to it. He's very, very, very far in the background.

----------


## Arsenal

Selina & Jericho are there with Jason so I wouldn’t think much of it. It’s just a projection of the people who were offered & accepted Lex’s gift. I doubt we’ll see any of them fighting on the front lines for team Doom.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

It still irritates me when Jason is considered a villain. After nearly a decade of him being an antihero I would've hoped writers got the memo.

----------


## Arsenal

I definitely agree but if his only appearance on the side of Doom is a holographic projection than I can live with it.

At least it’s not TentaTodd 2.0 or the Crime Fighting Social Media Influencer where he’s doing actual villainous shit.

----------


## brenster21

> It still irritates me when Jason is considered a villain. After nearly a decade of him being an antihero I would've hoped writers got the memo.


Well the rebirth run was supposed to be about Jason convincing the world he was a villain so that he could go undercover and fight crime with Bruce being the only one who knew what he was planning. So at least those writers have a reason for thinking Jason is still a villain, and I do agree it is really tiring having everyone think Jason is evil.

----------


## Sergard

> Goddammit.


Why is Riddler part of the Legion of Doom? The whole premise of the YotV Riddler oneshot is Riddler not getting an offer.
Some of the character designs look off too. Ra's has a strange beard, Black Mask's mask doesn't resemble anything he's worn before, Lobo's face looks awkward, Talon has an owl face and Catwoman wears a poor excuse of a mask.

Are those supposed to be main continuity characters or characters from another universe?

----------


## Sergard

@lets-ride-the-dinosaurs





@lets-ride-the-dinosaurs

_Dick: *kisses Jays head for the fifteenth time*

Jason: Its just a cold Im not fucking dying! 

Dick: I know Im just happy youre here

Jason: *sputters, sneezes, hides in blankets*_

----------


## Jackalope89

> Why is Riddler part of the Legion of Doom? The whole premise of the YotV Riddler oneshot is Riddler not getting an offer.
> Some of the character designs look off too. Ra's has a strange beard, Black Mask's mask doesn't resemble anything he's worn before, Lobo's face looks awkward, Talon has an owl face and Catwoman wears a poor excuse of a mask.
> 
> Are those supposed to be main continuity characters or characters from another universe?


So that was Selina. Really threw me off with that design. Looks like a combo of Selina, Babs as Batgirl, and Maya Ducard. And I only say Selina because of the cat ears.

----------


## Zaresh

> So that was Selina. Really threw me off with that design. Looks like a combo of Selina, Babs as Batgirl, and Maya Ducard. And I only say Selina because of the cat ears.


I'm guessing it's based in her more classic costume, that was lilac and green, iirc.

----------


## Rac7d*

Who gonna play jason in Titans after he dies. They will need a new actor

----------


## Sergard

Jaime Coker




Kao



@tryvor_seo

----------


## Sergard

Sen




Paz (@ivokiku)



Taku(@Yotakuboi)

----------


## Kalethas31

> Who gonna play jason in Titans after he dies. They will need a new actor


Curran Walters  is 21 years old. can play jason in a couple of years as a red hood

----------


## Jackalope89

> Curran Walters  is 21 years old. can play jason in a couple of years as a red hood


I think Rac said that because in the comics after Jason comes back from being dead, he's _bigger_ than Dick is. Height and weight wise. Curran Walters (Jason Todd) is shorter than Brenton Thwaites (Dick Grayson).

----------


## Sergard

M-Alejandrita

_The many faces/expressions of Jason Todd_




Winefinefive(@angryXcupcake)




LXartGRAM

----------


## Rac7d*

> Curran Walters  is 21 years old. can play jason in a couple of years as a red hood



But he would be so smll, he would need a body double lol

HE has to be recast-ed as a larger man after he dies, For reference, he is currently  the height of Tim drake in the comic, now imagine that putting on the batman suit
I kinda like it though, real life attributes can be ignored anymore in the comcis  like size, age and time

----------


## Sergard

evinist Detective Pikabat part 20




evinist Detective Pikabat part 20.5




OTA (@OtterTheAuthor)

----------


## Sergard

OTA (@OtterTheAuthor) (continuation)

----------


## Zaresh

> But he would be so smll, he would need a body double lol
> 
> HE has to be recast-ed as a larger man after he dies, For reference, he is currently  the height of Tim drake in the comic, now imagine that putting on the batman suit
> I kinda like it though, real life attributes can be ignored anymore in the comcis like size, age and time


Mmmm. I think that Jason as Red Hood doesn't need to be big, he needs to instil fear. You can do that when you're an average sized teenager too, I think, with the proper attitude and pose  Same for Bruce, really: you don't need a really big guy, you need a guy who can put fear in the criminals in a rather imposing suit. Tall, if possible, but the rest of the ideal picture can be achieved with body armour.

Recasting a character just because it doesn't fit the art in a comic is, in my humble opinion, not advised and I think it will be unlikely at this point. People usually only recast in two cases, as far as I've seen: when a minor character gets a bigger role in a story (like being promoted from extra or very supporting to a main role or a co-starring) or when the actor is not available (for whatever reason). Ah, or when they ask for too much, that, too.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Mmmm. I think that Jason as Red Hood doesn't need to be big, he needs to instil fear. You can do that when you're an average sized teenager too, I think, with the proper attitude and pose  Same for Bruce, really: you don't need a really big guy, you need a guy who can put fear in the criminals in a rather imposing suit. Tall, if possible, but the rest of the ideal picture can be achieved with body armour.
> 
> Recasting a character just because it doesn't fit the art in a comic is, in my humble opinion, not advised and I think it will be unlikely at this point. People usually only recast in two cases, as far as I've seen: when a minor character gets a bigger role in a story (like being promoted from extra or very supporting to a main role or a co-starring) or when the actor is not available (for whatever reason). Ah, or when they ask for too much, that, too.


Gotham did it for the last episode so the actress who played cat woman could properly fit the role 
 It’s not an issue for the 21 year old actor playing beast boy, becuase his character hasn’t aged in since NTT, but Jason’s transformation into red hood is important, it’s mental it’s physical

----------


## Arsenal

Worse comes to worst they can always get a bigger stunt double when hes fully suited up than play with how the scenes are shoot to make him look bigger than he actually is when hes not.

----------


## Zaresh

> Gotham did it for the last episode so the actress who played cat woman could properly fit the role 
>  It’s not an issue for the 21 year old actor playing beast boy, becuase his character hasn’t aged in since NTT, but Jason’s transformation into red hood is important, it’s mental it’s physical


Ah, iirc, Gotham recasted Poison Ivy in the earlier seasons too, but they came up with a reason for them to do so: they aged her up like 10 years or more for plot reasons (or something. Let's be honest: they wanted a sensual Ivy, not a child. So they magically aged her up and made her "blossom").

I don't know. Maybe they'll recast, but I don't see them doing that after at least two seasons with the same actor in a very visible role, and when he's going to be out of the picture for a year and half, probably not more than two years. I could see them going for a recast if they have a timeskip of like 5 years, though. But Jason is 19 in the series already, if I'm not mistaken, so I wouldn't expect a lot of changes: it just isn't very realistic.

I don't know, just my opinion.

I disagree in that the changes were so physical. It depends on the artist a lot, but Jason wasn't small as Robin in the comics. For a 12-15 years older, he was rather muscular and definitely not short in the old comics, as far as I recall; and in the post-Crisis cont, the next time we saw him, in Under the Hood, almost 5 years had passed (so Jason was an adult already. EDIT: but then he was MASSIVE when he was drawn by Lee. Because that way a villain could be more menacing). He was small in the animated movie though, which is why people tend to think he was a small Robin. And the new comics are drawing him average sized for a Robin (ha ha, Robin sized). The actor we have is not big, but hey, what can we do? It's what we got and he did a fine work for this version of Jason. I can deal with it,he can look very mean and cruel, apparently. They could go that way with his Red Hood.

Edit: ah, true. They could do that with the stunt actor too, @Arse.

(I don't know, maybe they would, but I'm going to need them to do the change in the cast the right way for me to not distract me)

EDIT: so they changed Ivy's actress a third time. Ok, I stand corrected. At least, in Gotham, they seem to recast characters quite a lot.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Good time to bring up that at least in one official source, Jason was underweight and short for his age at his time of death

----------


## Sergard

As a user on Twitter pointed out:





And since this is the internet, there are already fanarts.

Jave-chan

----------


## Sergard

Jave-chan




Another fanart by the artist.

Jave-chan

----------


## Sergard

Karl Mostert (@Kamo_1981) (the artist of the RH:O #39 DCeased variant)






colored version

----------


## Aahz

> Good time to bring up that at least in one official source, Jason was underweight and short for his age at his time of death


Batman files is at best semi official ..., and these stats make no sense.

----------


## Sergard

Kenneth Rocafort (please follow the link for the video because I have no idea how to embed Twitter videos in a forum post)

_Happy weekend! Here is a small pick of what I am doing right now. Jason Todd aka: RED HOOD. I’m working on my last issue run on Red Hood Outlaw (issue number 39). #mitografia #kennethrocafort #redhood #redhoodandtheoutlaws #jasontodd #robin #batman #dccomics #dcuniverse_

----------


## Zaresh

> Good time to bring up that at least in one official source, Jason was underweight and short for his age at his time of death


Huh.
Ok, I was wrong.
That's definitely small for a 15yo. He would be even smaller than I was, and I'm (always has beem) short for a woman. I teach kids of 9 years (well, mostly, it's 10y olders. But I had two this summer, for example) who are already taller than me (I'm 4'9). I guess the pit did fixed that.

Next time I'll try to check my facts beforehand.
Thanks for the info \o/.

Edit: I love those fanarts. Especially the ones about the creepy cat. And I don't think one can embe twitter videos, or if it's possible, I couldn't find how either.

----------


## Aahz

But there are also sources that list him at 5'0'', 5'2'' and 5'4'' (I would go with 5'4'' as the "most official" one, since that is from an actual comic and not some guide book).

4'6'' would be really small, that around the height Damian is typically drawn, Jason was typically drawn taller then that. In Death in the Family he his he is much closer to what Tim is usually drawn like. And even in the comics it self there was never made a reference about Jason being particularly short (unlike it is done with Tim or Damian).

----------


## Zaresh

> But there are also sources that list him at 5'0'', 5'2'' and 5'4'' (I would go with 5'4'' as the "most official" one, since that is from an actual comic and not some guide book).
> 
> 4'6'' would be really small, that around the height Damian is typically drawn, Jason was typically drawn taller then that. In Death in the Family he his he is much closer to what Tim is usually drawn like. And even in the comics it self there was never made a reference about Jason being particularly short (unlike it is done with Tim or Damian).


Well, it definitely looked like he was around the 5'2 mark for me, or even the 5'4 in some stories (I'm thinking about pre-COIE, circus-Jason looked pretty tall for a kid of his age).

----------


## Rac7d*

> Worse comes to worst they can always get a bigger stunt double when he’s fully suited up than play with how the scenes are shoot to make him look bigger than he actually is when he’s not.


Lol so like how Tim is 5’7 some issues and 6’1 at the turn of a page

----------


## Aahz

Here this covers most sources for Jason Height as Robin.

https://flyingnightwingwing.tumblr.com/post/187255913616/how-exactly-tall-is-robinjason

With exception of the pre crisis s profile.

----------


## Sergard

airair_ii









> Here this covers most sources for Jason Height as Robin.
> 
> https://flyingnightwingwing.tumblr.com/post/187255913616/how-exactly-tall-is-robinjason
> 
> With exception of the pre crisis s profile.


The author of the tumblr post isn't the only one that likes the "the shortest becomes the tallest" idea.
I'm enjoying it too - especially since it breaks with the comic stereotype that the oldest son is the tallest, the second oldest is the second tallest, etc.
That's not how biology works.

----------


## Aahz

https://www.deviantart.com/jasontodd...2019-811508819

----------


## Arsenal

Since we know Lobdell is trying to get the Outlaw League up and running for atleast an arc, I wonder if any of Jason’s new students will end up on the team. 

Also, found it kind of interesting that comiXology has issue 36 listed as the last Red Hood: Outlaw title with the 3rd annual, 37 & 38 returning to the RHATO title. Curious to see if Generation Outlaw will be listed as RHATO vol. 5 or RHO vol. 3

Wonder if issues 37 to 4_

----------


## Zaresh

> Since we know Lobdell is trying to get the Outlaw League up and running for atleast an arc, I wonder if any of Jason’s new students will end up on the team. 
> 
> Also, found it kind of interesting that comiXology has issue 36 listed as the last Red Hood: Outlaw title with the 3rd annual, 37 & 38 returning to the RHATO title. Curious to see if Generation Outlaw will be listed as RHATO vol. 5 or RHO vol. 3
> 
> Wonder if issues 37 to 4_


I'm guessing they could try to relaunch this teen team as a stand alone book of some sort at some point, aimed to teenagers or young adults, maybe with some other characters in the same age gap (like Sideways and Jaime's Blue Beetle). Or at least, I would do that, if they work and people like them. They are releasing a bunch of comics aimed to children and pre-teens, but they have few specifically aimed to teens and young adults.

----------


## Aahz

> The author of the tumblr post isn't the only one that likes the "the shortest becomes the tallest" idea.
> I'm enjoying it too - especially since it breaks with the comic stereotype that the oldest son is the tallest, the second oldest is the second tallest, etc.
> That's not how biology works.


Still 4'6'' at the age of 15 is kind of absurd.

4'6'' is the average height of an nine year old, and average height of a 15 year old is something close to 5'9'', that's more then a feet taller. (apart from that even him being 15 when he died doesn't really fit the timeline ...)

----------


## Rac7d*

> airair_ii
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Their all adopted that logic has no bearing on this family

----------


## Sergard

Andy Laiho




@phei_sz2003



Macauley Etherington

----------


## Sergard

> Their all adopted that logic has no bearing on this family


This has nothing to do with being adopted or not.
The comic logic goes: You are older/more experienced/in some kind of mentor position, so you are taller.
The same stereotype prevents any of the Robins to be taller than Bruce. Bruce is the father figure/mentor and higher up in the "hierarchy" of the batfamily. Therefore comic logic says that he has to be the taller person - so that every reader immediately knows the "hierarchy". The same logic gave Dick and Tim a magical growth spurt when they became Batman.

The same is true for a lot of other sidekicks/families.
Aquaman is taller than Tempest.
Wonder Woman is taller than Donna Troy.
Green Arrow is taller than Arsenal.
Superman is taller than Conner Kent.
Deathstroke is taller than Jericho.
Barry and Wally are apparently the same height.

----------


## Sergard

> Kenneth Rocafort (please follow the link for the video because I have no idea how to embed Twitter videos in a forum post)
> 
> _Happy weekend! Here is a small pick of what I am doing right now. Jason Todd aka: RED HOOD. Im working on my last issue run on Red Hood Outlaw (issue number 39). #mitografia #kennethrocafort #redhood #redhoodandtheoutlaws #jasontodd #robin #batman #dccomics #dcuniverse_


Thankfully, Kenneth Rocafort also posted the video on Facebook.

----------


## Sergard

fishtre

----------


## Zaresh

I've found this thread in /r/DCcomics and I think it could be a good idea to share it here. If I'm not wrong, we were discussing something similar not too long ago, so it may interest some of you guys as well. It's about the generation of young heroes for Jason, or the lack of one, why something like that happened, what could've been, and what has meant for the character.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/co...n_generations/

----------


## Jackalope89

> I've found this thread in /r/DCcomics and I think it could be a good idea to share it here. If I'm not wrong, we were discussing something similar not too long ago, so it may interest some of you guys as well. It's about the generation of young heroes for Jason, or the lack of one, why something like that happened, what could've been, and what has meant for the character.
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/co...n_generations/


Interesting read, thanks for the post! 

And, while I get the whole wanting Jason to be a loner thing, him NOT having his own generation, so to speak, makes more lonely than "independent".

Some of the people they suggested are interesting. Like Mia Dearden, an Arrow that actually has a lot in common with Jason due to their pasts. And Jason being a big brother to people isn't unheard of, in his own way. 

Grace Choi, I simply don't know much about her other than being part Amazon and Thunder's girlfriend. Honestly half tempted to just put Artemis here instead.

Bizarro, well, I honestly wouldn't be against him being around when Jason was Robin. While technically the size of an adult, Biz was only "born" when he came out of the tank. It would be the "big brother is a comedically smaller than the big brother" kind of thing.

Rose Wilson works for obvious reasons.

----------


## Zaresh

> Interesting read, thanks for the post! 
> 
> And, while I get the whole wanting Jason to be a loner thing, him NOT having his own generation, so to speak, makes more lonely than "independent".
> 
> Some of the people they suggested are interesting. Like Mia Dearden, an Arrow that actually has a lot in common with Jason due to their pasts. And Jason being a big brother to people isn't unheard of, in his own way. 
> 
> Grace Choi, I simply don't know much about her other than being part Amazon and Thunder's girlfriend. Honestly half tempted to just put Artemis here instead.
> 
> Bizarro, well, I honestly wouldn't be against him being around when Jason was Robin. While technically the size of an adult, Biz was only "born" when he came out of the tank. It would be the "big brother is a comedically smaller than the big brother" kind of thing.
> ...


No problem.

Honestly? Even when I'm not a fan of the "everything is connected" way of working with a shared universe, I don't like that he's bassically isolated from the rest of the main universe because he doesn't have his own generarion of mates. That limits the narrative when you want to connect the story of a certain character to others; and when you borrow characters associated to others (and let's be honest, they do that because those are the ones people know about and who show up in books regularly), then you end with a conflict with certain fanbases like what has happened with Kori and Roy. Jason was just unlucky. At his time DC was adding the new young characters to the New Teen Titans, and Jason wasn't the Robin there because they already had one (Dick). Jason was isolated, almost didn't have a place outside the books with Batman; so every character who would be associated with him would've had to play their role in those books. Or being a one time thing, like Kid Devil.

And then he died, and came back as an adult.

And he had his time as Robin shortened because what COIE meant.

Bad luck, indeed. Fortunately, Bizarro (this version is really, really recent) and Artemis (a character from the 90's that was in Limbo) worked very well.

Now, that being said, I do like a lot the chances that not having a group of associated mates could bring to the table. RHATO could be a book with a clear lead that reintroduces or presents small or forgotten characters, or misfits, or new characters, in a rotating cast that also helps to connect Jason to his universe, making him "the guy who knows people" much like Hawkeye is, for example, in Marvel (by virtue of being a former member or a ton of groups and teams, which potentially makes him good for a mentor and a help in any group with newcommers).

----------


## Aahz

> I've found this thread in /r/DCcomics and I think it could be a good idea to share it here. If I'm not wrong, we were discussing something similar not too long ago, so it may interest some of you guys as well. It's about the generation of young heroes for Jason, or the lack of one, why something like that happened, what could've been, and what has meant for the character.
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/co...n_generations/


Alot of the charcter suggested there are either part of Dicks (Kyle Rayner, Joey Wilson and probably Jesse Chambers and Jennifer-Lynn Hayden) or Tims Generation (Mia Dearden, Courtney Whitmore).
And Kara Kent is anyway and odd case do to all the differnt incarnation, but she is usually more connected with the Batgirls then with the Robins.

Btw. Jackson Hyde (the new Aqualad) might be potential candidate for Jasons generation, he seems to fall in the "younger then Dick, older then Tim" age range, and is the son of Black Manta.

----------


## Rise

> I've found this thread in /r/DCcomics and I think it could be a good idea to share it here. If I'm not wrong, we were discussing something similar not too long ago, so it may interest some of you guys as well. It's about the generation of young heroes for Jason, or the lack of one, why something like that happened, what could've been, and what has meant for the character.
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/co...n_generations/


I agree with the ones who said Jason doesn't need his own generation. 

They can do more harm than good because when they struggle to find a place for them, you get dragged down with them. Just look at Tim and his generation or even Dick with the titans.

----------


## Rac7d*

> This has nothing to do with being adopted or not.
> The comic logic goes: You are older/more experienced/in some kind of mentor position, so you are taller.
> The same stereotype prevents any of the Robins to be taller than Bruce. Bruce is the father figure/mentor and higher up in the "hierarchy" of the batfamily. Therefore comic logic says that he has to be the taller person - so that every reader immediately knows the "hierarchy". The same logic gave Dick and Tim a magical growth spurt when they became Batman.
> 
> The same is true for a lot of other sidekicks/families.
> Aquaman is taller than Tempest.
> Wonder Woman is taller than Donna Troy.
> Green Arrow is taller than Arsenal.
> Superman is taller than Conner Kent.
> ...


They do that in cartoons too it’s called the  “ teen are short trope” a child character no matter how old will be shorter then the parents for easy distinction.  Look at family guy, for example

----------


## Zaresh

> I agree with the ones who said Jason doesn't need his own generation. 
> 
> They can do more harm than good because when they struggle to find a place for them, you get dragged down with them. Just look at Tim and his generation or even Dick with the titans.


I see that point, and it's true; but it's also true that when you want to make him interact with other heroes/characters  in a friendly way, teaming up or whatsoever, because he doesn't have his own group, it tends to end up with "issues" among the fans of those characters. "Don't steal my teammates/supporting cast" is probably what's behind that logic (I think it's just silly, because one can be friendly with people, sharing friends with your family, etc.). I'm already expecting a lot of Wally fans complaining if Lobdell makes them share a page unless it's in hostile terms (and that's a possibility, because now he's writing both characters).

----------


## Rac7d*

> I see that point, and it's true; but it's also true that when you want to make him interact with other heroes/characters  in a friendly way, teaming up or whatsoever, because he doesn't have his own group, it tend to end up with "issues" among the fans of those characters. "Don't steal my teammates/supporting cast" is probably what's behind that logic (I think it's just silly, because one can be friendly with people, sharing friends with your family, etc.). I'm already expecting a lot of Wally fans complaining if Lobdell makes them share a page unless it's in hostile terms (and that's a possibility, because now he's writing both characters).


It’s about contradiction why would 19 former addict, recently contracted by the government, just found out he has a child with a super villainess make bond with the 14 Jason

If you rewrite Roy for Jason, then you can affect the relationship he has with other, like DIck and Donna

----------


## Rise

> I see that point, and it's true; but it's also true that when you want to make him interact with other heroes/characters  in a friendly way, teaming up or whatsoever, because he doesn't have his own group, it tends to end up with "issues" among the fans of those characters. "Don't steal my teammates/supporting cast" is probably what's behind that logic (I think it's just silly, because one can be friendly with people, sharing friends with your family, etc.). I'm already expecting a lot of Wally fans complaining if Lobdell makes them share a page unless it's in hostile terms (and that's a possibility, because now he's writing both characters).


Who cares? It's just a noise. Some fans just love complaining about any stupid thing and I don't remember Dick, Tim and Damian only interacting with characters from their generations.

If a writer wanted Jason to interact with any character they want, they can and no fan whinning about it should stop them.

----------


## Zaresh

> Who cares? It's just a noise. Some fans just love complaining about any stupid thing and I don't remember Dick, Tim and Damian only interacting with characters from their generations.
> 
> If a writer wanted Jason to interact with any character they want, they can and no fan whinning about it should stop them.


Well, fair enough.

----------


## Arsenal

Not having a set Generation just means it takes a bit more effort to give Jason a new playmate than simply checking out the latest addition to one of DC’s main hero families. That’s all.

----------


## RedBird

> I see that point, and it's true; but it's also true that when you want to make him interact with other heroes/characters  in a friendly way, teaming up or whatsoever, because he doesn't have his own group, it tends to end up with "issues" among the fans of those characters. "Don't steal my teammates/supporting cast" is probably what's behind that logic (I think it's just silly, because one can be friendly with people, sharing friends with your family, etc.). I'm already expecting a lot of Wally fans complaining if Lobdell makes them share a page unless it's in hostile terms (and that's a possibility, because now he's writing both characters).





> ItÂs about contradiction why would 19 former addict, recently contracted by the government, just found out he has a child with a super villainess make bond with the 14 Jason
> 
> If you rewrite Roy for Jason, then you can affect the relationship he has with other, like DIck and Donna


Why? Because he is no longer an older addict with a kid from a villainess. (a kid that was already senselessly killed off mind you) 

There was, after all, a universe wide 'reboot' that removed all the history from these characters and erased their past.

Let's not get cause and effect mixed up.

The question is about concerns for characters teaming up who already have history with other characters. Writing Roy and Jason partnering up should in actuality have absolutely NO effect on Roys relationship with ANY other character. Period.

The CAUSE of Roys diminished relationship with Dick and Donna etc was a senseless reboot with no consideration for character history that left many of the Titans as either non existent or as blank slates. A legitimate complaint and concern from the ridiculous new52, but not one caused by Roy interacting with Jason, such complaints miss the context of the new52 reboot entirely. There was no 'contradiction' within the relationship formed in rhato since the reboot left nothing to contradict. (ironically, I think at the time rhato was the only book to knowledge that the Titans/teen titans existed at one point, and that the outlaws had a relationship with them, to editorial dismay.) 





> Who cares? It's just a noise. Some fans just love complaining about any stupid thing and I don't remember Dick, Tim and Damian only interacting with characters from their generations.
> 
> If a writer wanted Jason to interact with any character they want, they can and no fan whinning about it should stop them.


And ultimately THIS.

We've seen plenty of characters within the dc universe crossover and interact with others, hell we've seen things like the exact same generation of teen titans swap (robin) hands two, three times over, but also within the greater narrative of the dc universe, such complaints have no place. Beyond editorial meddling, there's no barrier that prevents characters from interacting with each other and at the end of the day, I gotta agree with Rise in that Jason doesn't NEED a generation. At least not the DC line kind of generation.

The tragedy of his character is that he did not receive the chance to form a 'generation' for himself, but at this point there's no looking back, that boat has sailed. If you notice, these 'generation' characters generally begin as children. As part of the external logic, it's just a way to appeal to kids by selling justice league mini, and as part of the internal logic, it's to give super hero kid characters a chance to grow up among individuals who are just like them and to form their identity as kids or teens among the community. 

Like I said, that boat has sailed for Jason, he has already missed out on forming an identity as a kid/teen and that is a unique part of his character. The fact that his formative years are not just within childhood but also his current young adulthood.

Trying to search through the sea of DC characters for ones that are JUST older than Tim but JUST younger than Dick and on top of that are also, 'UNTOUCHED' to appease fans and suit Jason is futile and pointless, not only cause of how close these robins age gaps now are anyway, but also because Jason is already a young adult now, (maybe a slightly emotionally stunted adult, but still), there's no need to find characters his age because he is not limited by having a team book, 'only for kids' or 'only for teens'. I think that's a nice positive to the Outlaws book which is that these characters don't have to be limited by any artificial grouping like that. Plus like Rise said, we've seen how generational characters can hold their Robin counterparts down and limit them.

The REAL concern should always be for characters to be well written within context, have believable chemistry and overall interesting interactions. Not whether or not their ages match, or with worries that these characters are OWNED TM by 'other' characters as deemed and decreed by fandom.

----------


## Sergard

I'm hyped. I love fan stuff like this.

BatFam Fashion Zine

_GOTHAM BOLD: A Batfamily Fashion Zine is available for preorder!!

OPEN UNTIL OCTOBER 1ST_










> $25.00
> [ZINE ONLY] GOTHAM BOLD: A BatFamily Fashion Zine
> 
> PREORDER: ESTIMATED SHIPPING IN NOVEMBER
> 65+ Pages
> 9x6 Perfect Bound
> Charity Zine: Proceeds go towards International Bat Conservation
> ***cover art not final

----------


## Sergard

> $35.00
> GOTHAM BOLD: BUNDLE #1
> 
> PREORDER: ESTIMATED SHIPPING IN NOVEMBER
> 65+ Pages
> 9x6 Perfect Bound
> 5 Mini Prints
> 2 Sticker Sets
> Charity Zine: Proceeds go towards International Bat Conservation
> *** cover art not final








> $50.00
> GOTHAM BOLD: BUNDLE #2
> 
> PREORDER: ESTIMATED SHIPPING IN NOVEMBER
> 65+ Pages
> 9x6 Perfect Bound
> 5 Mini Prints
> 2 Sticker Sets
> 4 Acrylic Charms
> ...



Here's another sneak peek. Artwork by Karl (@karlsteinns)

----------


## Sergard

@gunyo1030



Whispering Imp




PECOS(@howdypecos)

----------


## Sergard

Jave-chan




Francis Xie



fishtre

----------


## Sergard

evinist: Detective Pikabat part 21




Ace Continuado



inkydandy

----------


## Sergard

@alienhyena




@alienhyena Young Justice!Jason and Zatanna




@ninalinovna

----------


## Sergard

Fade




posa(@tosa07888869)




I also found this amazing artist on Instagram: Symeona Maria Kanellou

female Jason

----------


## Sergard

Symeona Maria Kanellou _"After the movie they had regular gaming nights"_




Symeona Maria Kanellou Jason and Nocturna



Symeona Maria Kanellou _"The rebel bats"_

----------


## Sergard

Symeona Maria Kanellou _"If you won't give me Hush Jason I'mma get him myself"_




Symeona Maria Kanellou _"Brother bats"_




Symeona Maria Kanellou _"Discrete surveillance"_

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I'm catching up with the Green Lantern, and I never expected Morrison to acknowledge Countdown.


Countdown #30


The Green Lantern #10

----------


## Sergard

Symeona Maria Kanellou




Symeona Maria Kanellou _"Sick Jason and Bruce"_



Symeona Maria Kanellou

----------


## Sergard

> I'm catching up with the Green Lantern, and I never expected Morrison to acknowledge Countdown.
> 
> [...]


How do you know that these are the characters from Earth-15?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> How do you know that these are the characters from Earth-15?




Furthermore, Earth 15 was touted as the "Perfect Universe" in Countdown and you have this in TGL



Oh, the irony of Jason being Batman in the perfect world.

----------


## Jackalope89

Goes to show Jason would be a good Batman without going Tim-dictator, Damian-I-sold-my-soul, and Dick-I-don't-really-want-it. 

But in every universe, Jason seems to hate clowns. lol

----------


## RedBird

> Furthermore, Earth 15 was touted as the "Perfect Universe" in Countdown and you have this in TGL
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, the irony of Jason being Batman in the perfect world.


Yoooooo That's actually kinda awesome, bittersweet but awesome.  :Big Grin:  Thanks for that gem of a find Dark.




> Goes to show Jason would be a good Batman without going Tim-dictator, Damian-I-sold-my-soul, and Dick-I-don't-really-want-it. 
> 
> But in every universe, Jason seems to hate clowns. lol


And yeah Jason being unequivocally the Perfect Batman in the perfect world is definitely one of the best things countdown gave, it's pretty cool to still see it being acknowledged even now.

----------


## G-Potion

> PECOS(@howdypecos)


Ouch haha.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

If you guys want to know Jason's status in DCeased, Tom Taylor will have an AMA on Reddit Tomorrow

https://twitter.com/DCComics/status/1169309156022652933

----------


## Jackalope89

> If you guys want to know Jason's status in DCeased, Tom Taylor will have an AMA on Reddit Tomorrow
> 
> https://twitter.com/DCComics/status/1169309156022652933


I don't really do Reddit. If someone asks, I hope it gets posted here.

----------


## Zaresh

> I don't really do Reddit. If someone asks, I hope it gets posted here.


I guess I could ask if I'm online at the time (I need to know what's that time in my own timezone). EDIT: yep, it'll be starting in my evening. I can try.

----------


## Sergard

Fade




ravenpunch



ravenpunch

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Jason had a brief appearance in Batman TMNT 3 #5

----------


## RedBird

> Jason had a brief appearance in Batman TMNT 3 #5


Yeah saw this one on tumblr, gotta remember to keep up with this series. Also Jason looks so young here it hurts.

----------


## RedBird

Looks like the Acetate cover for issue #40 has changed. 

The Year of the Villain reaches its next deadly phase with "Hostile Takeover" -- as the heroes of the DC Universe are defeated by their greatest foes.

The triumph of evil over good will be represented with a series of two-layer acetate covers in November, which will see DC's heroes literally replaced by their villains - Action Comics is taken over by Lex Luthor and Justice League by the Legion of Doom, for example. The top layer of the cover features the villains' Hostile Takeover of the book's title, showing off their newly empowered status quo. The second layer, retaining each series' familiar logo, will reflect the storyline events that led to the hero's defeat. 
Now DC announces that the acetate cover for Red Hood and the Outlaws #40 (AUG190625) will now will feature art by V Ken Marion.




Red Hood and The Outlaws #40 YOTV ACETATE
_(W) Scott Lobdell (A) David Messina (CA) V Kenneth Marion_

After their first mission in the field, all the Outlaws want is to head back to the Block for some R&R. Unfortunately, no sooner do they get home than they find themselves under assault from Shay Veritas' clones! It's like Night of the Living Duplicates in there, and Red Hood is nowhere to be found. Is he teaching them a dangerous (but hopefully valuable) lesson with his absence, or is he dealing with something even bigger and more terrifying?








I'm guessing the kid is gonna be controlling Jason? Looks like the reunion may be a little painful.

----------


## RedBird

For reference here's the old acetate cover for issue #40 by Guillem March.

----------


## Zaresh

> I'm guessing the kid is gonna be controlling Jason? Looks like the reunion may be a little painful.


Seems to me that he may be controlling all of them. He's holding dolls of all three.

----------


## RedBird

jjmk-jjmk

----------


## RedBird

_
Red hood: animated

fan art_

----------


## Korath

Damn it, right in the feels.

Also, I really like Jason : Outlaw costume now. I wasn't too fond of it, at first, but now I find it's almost as Iconic as is New 53 and Rebirth looks to me.

----------


## Arsenal

It’s grown on me, I just think the face mask design needs some work.

----------


## Zaresh

Wow. I love those animations.

I think I like his new costume more since he's with some hair again.

----------


## Sergard

HERZHERZ




Gang(@yshanggua2)




Romy Jones

----------


## Zaresh

Well, I was going to ask in that AMA, but someone else did so already. Let's see if Mr. Taylor replies in a hour and a bit.

----------


## RedBird

_So what happened to Jason Todd during DCeased, also will he end up making an appearance in the comic?_


TOM: Oh. That's a VERY good question.

Which I 100% can't answer.

...Yet 😉

----------


## Zaresh

> _So what happened to Jason Todd during DCeased, also will he end up making an appearance in the comic?_
> 
> 
> TOM: Oh. That's a VERY good question.
> 
> Which I 100% can't answer.
> 
> ...Yet


Which means that at least he will show up, dead or alive, I guess.

----------


## Jackalope89

He wasn't with the rest of the Bats, but that's nothing new.

Maybe trying to help a group of survivors? One can hope.

----------


## G-Potion

> _So what happened to Jason Todd during DCeased, also will he end up making an appearance in the comic?_
> 
> 
> TOM: Oh. That's a VERY good question.
> 
> Which I 100% can't answer.
> 
> ...Yet


Very comforting :/

----------


## brenster21

Pretty glad I asked the question, maybe Jason will make an appearance later on.

----------


## Sergard

Rex Lokus _work in progress_





And here's a new Titans season 2 clip: It's Robin vs. Robin in exclusive Titans season 2 premiere clip

----------


## Arsenal

Looks good.  Who is that?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Doesn't look like is Rocafort, so it should be from issue 40, with David Messina on art. Either way, I really like how it looks.

----------


## RedBird

Here's some WIP from David Messina

----------


## RedBird

kalhuset





I been sayin it for a while, but I really want Jason to get a leather jacket with fur trimmings, just a casual jacket not even an 'official' red hood costume one.  :Big Grin:

----------


## Sergard

A_sebury




Amy(@a_draws_things)




Matt Gaudio

----------


## Sergard

@inihiu

----------


## dietrich

> I been sayin it for a while, but I really want Jason to get a leather jacket with fur trimmings, just a casual jacket not even an 'official' red hood costume one.


Styling whilst kicking arse. I can dig it.

----------


## Sergard

rik

_Despite its flaws, Titans season 2 has sparks so much joy to me#titans #jasontodd I thank myself everyday for Curran Robin Jay_




rik

_rkgk venom jay on his new outfit#jasontodd_



MON(@_monitter)

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

The skill's names are cracking me up

----------


## Jackalope89

Surprised it wasn't mentioned, but Jason on Titans looks to be a key member going forward, joining at the same time as Gar and Rachel, with Dick as the leader. Whereas in the comics, he only had a few brief team ups.

----------


## Restingvoice

> The skill's names are cracking me up


I wish this game is more popular and less expensive... which is probably why it's not that popular. I already know this exist since... 96 was it? but it's really really rare and pricey in my place

----------


## Sergard

@blueghostdraws




Matt Gaudio




@sdimo

----------


## Sergard

Edit: Sorry, images were deleted by artist

----------


## Sergard

Edit: Sorry, images were deleted by artist

----------


## Restingvoice

> 42


That's Bruce right

----------


## dietrich

> That's Bruce right


Adult Damian from Beyond I believe.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

https://twitter.com/dextersoy/status...77177798799360

----------


## cc008

Hey guys! Starting to dive into some Batman comics and interested in Red Hood. Saw in the OP the recommendations to pick up the current series. Anything from the New 52 that I should look for too? Or just jump in with the current run?

----------


## gohei_

Even though I'm a fan of the character and has always thought the movie is one of the better DC animated movies ever made, I haven't actually ever read Under the Red Hood.
But I was visiting a comic book store this weekend and they actually happened to have 2 or 3 copies of it and so I couldn't resist taking one of them with me home. 
Honestly pretty excited to read it.

----------


## Zaresh

> Hey guys! Starting to dive into some Batman comics and interested in Red Hood. Saw in the OP the recommendations to pick up the current series. Anything from the New 52 that I should look for too? Or just jump in with the current run?


The original Red Hood and the Outlaws, at least the first trades of it. And maybe Red Hood/Arsenal and Batman and Robin Eternal?




> Even though I'm a fan of the character and has always thought the movie is one of the better DC animated movies ever made, I haven't actually ever read Under the Red Hood.
> But I was visiting a comic book store this weekend and they actually happened to have 2 or 3 copies of it and so I couldn't resist taking one of them with me home. 
> Honestly pretty excited to read it.


Welcome to our thread  :Smile: . Enjoy your read.

----------


## kaimaciel

> https://twitter.com/dextersoy/status...77177798799360


The Master never disappoints.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Even though I'm a fan of the character and has always thought the movie is one of the better DC animated movies ever made, I haven't actually ever read Under the Red Hood.
> But I was visiting a comic book store this weekend and they actually happened to have 2 or 3 copies of it and so I couldn't resist taking one of them with me home. 
> Honestly pretty excited to read it.


Honestly, the animated film is a good substitute. A few things from the comics that have to do with the larger DC Universe at the time are excluded, but it still hits all the same notes.

----------


## Zaresh

> Honestly, the animated film is a good substitute. A few things from the comics that have to do with the larger DC Universe at the time are excluded, but it still hits all the same notes.


It's a good substitute, yeah. And it fixes some issues with the comic as far as I recall, like the conclusion. But it also lacks that badass scene with Jason crawling out of his grave (that was in the annual, I think?).

----------


## Sergard

Stephen Segovia



@lynxdre

----------


## Korath

I'm so pumped to have Red Hood and the Outlaws (Rebirth) translated in French ! I'll pick it up as soon as my birthday's come and gone, if no one in my family offered it to me  :Stick Out Tongue: 

Also, each time I'm reminded that I need to read more of Pre-Flashpoint Jason stories, I remember his horrible costume and anti-villain or whatever attitude around and after Battle for the Cowl and I get cold feet. Anything worth reading, beyond Under the Red Hood in that era ?

----------


## Arsenal

His appearance in Green Arrow (2001): Seeing Red (issues #69 to 72) & The Outsiders (2007) #44 aren’t bad but you aren’t missing much if you don’t read them either.

----------


## Aahz

"Red Hood - The Lost Days" is (apart from the Thalia thing) not bad, but very likely not canon anymore.

The first couple of issues of "Countdown" are not bad. 
Unfortunately the rest of the event is quite terrible, and with 52 issues it is also kind of expensive.

And everything after Countdown should be ignored.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Countdown is worth checking out because it set the foundations of Jason's characterization from the N52 onwards. Unfortunately, they had to return everyi to the status quo by the end, so they had to scrap all the development Jason went through the series in the last few issues.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Countdown is worth checking out because it set the foundations of Jason's characterization from the N52 onwards. Unfortunately, they had to return every to the status quo by the end, so they had to scrap all the development Jason went through the series in the last few issues.


How did they erase that?

----------


## Zaresh

> How did they erase that?


Because his personality, behaviour and motivations had little to do with what came later, as far as I recall. And because in Countdown he was an anti-hero, and after, a perfectly villainous villain.

----------


## RedBird

> How did they erase that?


Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a while. But from my memory, Countdown was supposed to transfer Jason from the Red Hood identity to the Red Robin identity, basically (as far as his story line goes) it was meant to be a sort of halfway redemption for the character by way of self reflection (seeing different versions of himself and especially different version of Bruce who kills the joker for Jason and gifts him with the Red Robin identity in the first place). 

However, for whatever reason, around the last issues, the story for Jason 180'd and he completely reversed and regressed to his UTRH self as soon as everything wrapped up. And right after woulds is when DC started the whole super villain thing with him. I say for whatever reason but honestly the most common reason I hear for this abrupt 'go no where' story arc is that this was about the time that DC needed an identity for Tim whilst Morrison needed Damian as Robin and so the identity of Red Robin became Tims instead.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Yep, that's the general gist of the situation. Still, you can see shades of N52's Jason during those few issues where Jason actually grew as character.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a while. But from my memory, Countdown was supposed to transfer Jason from the Red Hood identity to the Red Robin identity, basically (as far as his story line goes) it was meant to be a sort of halfway redemption for the character by way of self reflection (seeing different versions of himself and especially different version of Bruce who kills the joker for Jason and gifts him with the Red Robin identity in the first place). 
> 
> However, for whatever reason, around the last issues, the story for Jason 180'd and he completely reversed and regressed to his UTRH self as soon as everything wrapped up. And right after woulds is when DC started the whole super villain thing with him. I say for whatever reason but honestly the most common reason I hear for this abrupt 'go no where' story arc is that this was about the time that DC needed an identity for Tim whilst Morrison needed Damian as Robin and so the identity of Red Robin became Tims instead.


Can't forget Morrison's take.
I generally like Morrison, but with Jason, just so many things I had issues with.

----------


## Sergard

Luca(@_delucious)




remina(@akkiyamia)




Paz(@ivokiku)

----------


## Sergard

> Can't forget Morrison's take.
> I generally like Morrison, but with Jason, just so many things I had issues with.


Considering that Morrison has used Earth-15 Batman Jason as cheap jump scare in Green Lantern #10, I don't think Morrison's handling of Jason's character has gotten any better through the years.

----------


## Restingvoice

> 


That is quite... hmm... I don't know what's the word to put it... the pose...

----------


## G-Potion

> https://twitter.com/dextersoy/status...77177798799360


I miss this AU! And miss Soy as well!

----------


## Sergard

> That's Bruce right


As dietrich mentioned, that's adult Damian but I don't think it's a particular version of him.
The artist mainly draws Jason and Damian in different settings.

Here are some more fanarts of the artist.

(sorry, images were deleted by artist)

----------


## Sergard

Edit: Sorry, images were deleted by artist

----------


## RedBird

pidgeydraws

----------


## Restingvoice

> Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a while. But from my memory, Countdown was supposed to transfer Jason from the Red Hood identity to the Red Robin identity, basically (as far as his story line goes) it was meant to be a sort of halfway redemption for the character by way of self reflection (seeing different versions of himself and especially different version of Bruce who kills the joker for Jason and gifts him with the Red Robin identity in the first place). 
> 
> However, for whatever reason, around the last issues, the story for Jason 180'd and he completely reversed and regressed to his UTRH self as soon as everything wrapped up. And right after woulds is when DC started the whole super villain thing with him. I say for whatever reason but honestly the most common reason I hear for this abrupt 'go no where' story arc is that this was about the time that DC needed an identity for Tim whilst Morrison needed Damian as Robin and so the identity of Red Robin became Tims instead.


Ah, if that's the case, I think the reason is more obvious. If I'm not mistaken, at that time Countdown was the only one that was directed by Didio. 

Everything else, 52, the Batman saga and Final Crisis were designed by Morrison. So, of course, Morrison's gonna ignore Countdown. He already has a plan for the expanded Batman world, and here's one story that's inconsistent with his vision. Majority rules, especially the majority written by the same person.

Of course, once New 52 happened, Didio's plan became the majority, and Jason becomes what he wanted, probably really did continue from Countdown.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

And Morrison ultimately acknowledged Countdown anyways.

----------


## Sergard

klamblotblob





Kira(@kirameks)



_"I finally got to repurpose this Jason-face I drew last year that I liked, but not enough to refine or render."_

----------


## Sergard

Paz(@ivokiku)





Sun(@mikkuriin)




42

----------


## Sergard

Marcus To






Marcus To

----------


## Zaresh

> Marcus To
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marcus To


With such a simple and clean, very very stylised style, and yet he manages to make every one of the boys different enough. Different eyes or different jaws and chins (low head shape), and noses when he draws each one detailed enough. I really like it (because it's very cute* too. Damn, wasn't his Tim catching when I read Red Robin. It probably helps a lot that I love reading manga).

----------


## Jackalope89

I know its not really used in the comics, other than in Hush in pre-Flashpoint, but do you think that Jason will ever get the white-streak in his hair again? Its ridiculously popular in fanfics and fanart (as seen above). And it doesn't really change all that much for Jason.

----------


## Arsenal

Possibly but I doubt it.

----------


## Zaresh

> I know its not really used in the comics, other than in Hush in pre-Flashpoint, but do you think that Jason will ever get the white-streak in his hair again? Its ridiculously popular in fanfics and fanart (as seen above). And it doesn't really change all that much for Jason.


Didn't Lobdell say recently that editorial is not interested in the white streak coming back? In the end, it all depends on what they decide, I guess.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I know its not really used in the comics, other than in Hush in pre-Flashpoint, but do you think that Jason will ever get the white-streak in his hair again? Its ridiculously popular in fanfics and fanart (as seen above). And it doesn't really change all that much for Jason.


Not under Lobdell at least.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Didn't Lobdell say recently that editorial is not interested in the white streak coming back? In the end, it all depends on what they decide, I guess.





> Not under Lobdell at least.

----------


## Rac7d*

> I know its not really used in the comics, other than in Hush in pre-Flashpoint, but do you think that Jason will ever get the white-streak in his hair again? Its ridiculously popular in fanfics and fanart (as seen above). And it doesn't really change all that much for Jason.


He had it in Batman and robin eternal inthink

----------


## Rac7d*

It’s about time people started to ship Jason and rose

----------


## Zaresh

> It’s about time people started to ship Jason and rose


Why.

She's not good for him.
He's not good for her.
They've not interacted much.


It's because of Titans? Btw, the first episode was god awful, imho. And I liked the first season fine. I think I'm going to wait until this is over and see if, that way, I can hold the series until the end).

----------


## dietrich

> Why.
> 
> She's not good for him.
> He's not good for her.
> They've not interacted much.
> 
> 
> It's because of Titans? Btw, the first episode was god awful, imho. And I liked the first season fine. I think I'm going to wait until this is over and see if, that way, I can hold the series until the end).


When has any of that ever stopped shippers  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Korath

> 


I don't remember it from the comics XD !

Is it from an actual issue ?

----------


## Sergard

> I don't remember it from the comics XD !
> 
> Is it from an actual issue ?


The panel is from RHatO (2016) #20. This is the original version.

RHatO 2016 #20.jpg

----------


## Rise

Just watched Titans. Not exactly a promising start, but Jason continues to be the best part about the show and Hawk and Dove are great too (not fan of Donna's attitude tho which was clearly done for cheap comedy).

Was Jason promoted to regular? I might consider watching this season if he was, but I don't want Red Hood to appear.

----------


## Zaresh

> When has any of that ever stopped shippers


Ah, right. Sometimes I ask very silly questions :/

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> It’s about time people started to ship Jason and rose


Jason and Rose were in a physical relationship in the N52, for what is worth.

----------


## Aahz

And I'm pretty sure people shipped them even before that.
In the current comics it might be a little problematic, since it is not really clear how old they both are.

----------


## Rise

No need to mock the guy just because he said he ship something for whatever reason he has. Artemis has treated Jason terribly and seem to hardly care about him these days. I didn't see this stopping people from shipping them.

And I got my answer about Titans. I think I will pass if the second episode doesn't pick up.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> And I'm pretty sure people shipped them even before that.
> In the current comics it might be a little problematic, since it is not really clear how old they both are.


How can be "problematic" shipping freaking fictional characters together? Jason doesn't even have an age to begin with, for Christ's sake

----------


## Zaresh

> No need to mock the guy just because he said he ship something for whatever reason he has. Artemis has treated Jason terribly and seem to hardly care about him these days. I didn't see this stopping people from shipping them.
> 
> And I got my answer about Titans. I think I will pass if the second episode doesn't pick up.


Oh, I wasn't mocking him. I honestly can't understand why that ship is a thing.
I see Rose, and see an abussive and manipulative, impatient and violent girl (I admit I don't know a lot about Rose, so I may be wrong about her).
I see Jason and see a guy with a strong PTSD, self-esteem issues and anger and trust issues who tends to explode violently, hurt deeply others when he's mad, and fall into depression, dragging others with him (even if he doesn't mean to).
And I don't see what good would come out of it, unlike with Artemis, where she's definitely more mature and moderated, and seems to actually care about others even if she has heavy issues as well, didn't care a lot about him, or didn't think much of him for a while (just to be clear: I can understand that ship, because they were in the same book and did seem to have some working chemistry. I ship Jason with Supergirl, to be frank XDDDDD My personal gulty shipping which it's kind of out of the blue as well. Edited for the thousand time: Oh! Or even sweet Stargirl. Wouldn't that be an interaction full of fun—if she were a bit older).

I see Rose and Jason and can only imagine violence and hurt in every interaction they may have. Which I know can be fun to read, but eh, I don't think I like that for a character that I care about. Or for Rose; I don't think it would be that good for her either.

But we like what we like. I'm not implying that it's wrong to pair then  :Cool: . I want to make this point clear.

----------


## RedBird

Eh, if fandom 'shipping' culture has shown me anything its that characters don't even have to ever share the screen together to be 'shipped', as long as enough people like the idea of the characters together or if they have an aesthetic appeal to them together, that's about all ya need. :P

But as to the reason why people lean towards Jason and Rose, I can't say for sure but from what I've seen I feel like people see them as a 'match', so to speak.
Two violent bad-asses with daddy issues. 
I myself really like both characters, so I'm down to see them interact more in any fashion.




> And I'm pretty sure people shipped them even before that.
> In the current comics it might be a little problematic, since it is not really clear how old they both are.


Yeeeeah, hard to say, DC is really vague about Jasons age, though I don't think I'm alone in assuming that he is at least 18. And I'm pretty sure Rose was confirmed to be 18 as of Rebirth Deathstroke #29. 



*ignore the Red Hair, it's a wig

----------


## Aahz

> Yeeeeah, hard to say, DC is really vague about Jasons age, though I don't think I'm alone in assuming that he is at least 18. And I'm pretty sure Rose was confirmed to be 18 as of Rebirth Deathstroke #29.


They retonned Deathstroke so often I kind of lost track of what is the current status.
Pre Flashpoint Rose was iirc around the age of Tims generation (who are now back to 16), and with Jason it was never really clear how old he is supposed to be...

----------


## Jackalope89

> They retonned Deathstroke so often I kind of lost track of what is the current status.
> Pre Flashpoint Rose was iirc around the age of Tims generation (who are now back to 16), and with Jason it was never really clear how old he is supposed to be...


Originally, just a little older than Tim. New52, it seemed it was more in the middle of Tim and Dick. Now...

Now I have no freakin' clue.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Jason and Rose were in a physical relationship in the N52, for what is worth.


where? I know she appeared a the end of outlaws vol 1
fought starfire and lost

----------


## Arsenal

I definitely wouldn't mind more interactions between Jason and Rose going foward.

----------


## Rac7d*

> No need to mock the guy just because he said he ship something for whatever reason he has. Artemis has treated Jason terribly and seem to hardly care about him these days. I didn't see this stopping people from shipping them.
> 
> And I got my answer about Titans. I think I will pass if the second episode doesn't pick up.


does this intrigue you

----------


## RedBird

> where? I know she appeared a the end of outlaws vol 1
> fought starfire and lost


It's something very briefly and vaguely hinted at and referenced as the past but not explicitly shown on panel. 
The dialogues cheeky and again, vague but it seems to imply a past encounter and even physical relationship. 
No clue as to how they were acquainted or even how long they knew each other for though.

----------


## RedBird

> does this intrigue you


Haha, well Titans Jason is definitely awed by the 'total bad-ass' that is Rose.
Though I wonder if he also just loves that she's beating up cops like he does. XD

----------


## Sergard

Virtual Mockingbird





Fade




Paz(@ivokiku)

----------


## Rac7d*

> Originally, just a little older than Tim. New52, it seemed it was more in the middle of Tim and Dick. Now...
> 
> Now I have no freakin' clue.


Jason is 21 minimum he drinks and no way babs would show any intrest in a teenager

----------


## Sergard

Ace Continuado





Nicko Febriansyah



Nicko Febriansyah

----------


## redmax99

> Jason is 21 minimum he drinks and no way babs would show any intrest in a teenager


but the higher up stated he was two years older than tim and he's still 16 or 17 and jason showed intrest in kara who was 16 not to mention jason has good fake i.d's

----------


## Sergard

Nicko Febriansyah

----------


## AJpyro

Huh. Didn't expect a ship kerfluffle in the Jason thread.

----------


## redmax99

> Nicko Febriansyah


this is nice look more professional than known artists

----------


## Rac7d*

> but the higher up stated he was two years older than tim and he's still 16 or 17 and jason showed intrest in kara who was 16 not to mention jason has good fake i.d's


Which makes those scenarios of him going to the bar with Tim even worse
DC is a mess, their confirmation make no sense anyway alway add 3 years becuase Damian is 13 now

----------


## Zaresh

> Which makes those scenarios of him going to the bar with Tim even worse
> DC is a mess, their confirmation make no sense anyway alway add 3 years becuase Damian is 13 now


Kara being 16 is pretty bullshit if you ask me. Same as Tim being 16.

----------


## Rac7d*

> Kara being 16 is pretty bullshit if you ask me. Same as Tim being 16.


She is younger then Jon now

----------


## Zaresh

She should be 18 at least. Heck, she should be older than Jason, ideally, for me at least. This is getting ridiculous, again, in my opinion. Jon being that old is nonsense, but whatever: Bendis and his ideas and probably editorial wanting it for whatever rason. Whatever.

----------


## Sergard

@3o_oBn




Kritty(@critxcross)

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

On phone so I can't post the cover.

RED HOOD: OUTLAW #41
written by SCOTT LOBDELL
art by DAVID MESSINA
cover by DAN MORA
variant cover by PHILIP TAN
It’s the shocking return of Artemis and Bizarro! But when did these old friends become foes? Red Hood’s former Outlaws are ready to kill Jason Todd, and the kids of Generation Outlaw might be the only ones who can stand in their way! Sure, they’re the super-villains of tomorrow, but for today they’re just kids trying to learn how to survive in this crazy world. Will their final lesson be not to trust Jason Todd, or will they ultimately prove to be the end of his old teammates? It’s all been leading to this showdown between the Outlaws and the New Outlaws!
ON SALE 01.01.20
$3.99 US | 32 PAGES
FC|DC
This issue will ship with two covers. Please see the order form for details.

----------


## RedBird

Here we go, regular cover. Still looking for that Variant cover though.

----------


## Jackalope89

> On phone so I can't post the cover.
> 
> RED HOOD: OUTLAW #41
> written by SCOTT LOBDELL
> art by DAVID MESSINA
> cover by DAN MORA
> variant cover by PHILIP TAN
> It’s the shocking return of Artemis and Bizarro! But when did these old friends become foes? Red Hood’s former Outlaws are ready to kill Jason Todd, and the kids of Generation Outlaw might be the only ones who can stand in their way! Sure, they’re the super-villains of tomorrow, but for today they’re just kids trying to learn how to survive in this crazy world. Will their final lesson be not to trust Jason Todd, or will they ultimately prove to be the end of his old teammates? It’s all been leading to this showdown between the Outlaws and the New Outlaws!
> ON SALE 01.01.20
> ...


Looks like dimensional travel messed with with their heads a bit...

----------


## RedBird

> Looks like dimensional travel messed with with their heads a bit...


I'm guessing its the kid, Caden, from that revised issue #40 cover? The one where he is playing with toy versions of the outlaws while they beat each other up.

----------


## Zaresh

> Looks like dimensional travel messed with with their heads a bit...


The solicit seems to be written under the kids perspective. So they probably think they really need to defend their mentor by fighting those who are probably trying to defend his team mate from some punks who seem to be very violent.

A case of unreliable narrator in the solicit, so to speak.

But I may be wrong.
It could be what @RedBird says, as well.

----------


## Arsenal

Could also be their final test before “graduating”

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

DC Essentials Red Hood Review.

Probably the ultimate Red Hood figure in the foreseeable future.

----------


## Sergard

> Here we go, regular cover. Still looking for that Variant cover though.


Nice cover. I love the composition and the coloring.
It's not easy to put so many characters on a cover (although Mombie and Babe are a little squeezed into the background). It's also the first cover with Cloud Nine. I'm actually surprised that she didn't appear on a cover before. Her character has a cool design.

The new cover of RH:O #40 has already revealed that Caden plays a big part in this old team vs new team fight but I still hope that Caden will be part of the Outlaws. I liked the little interaction between Caden and Jason in the annual.

----------


## Sergard

Symeona Maria Kanellou






jaayybirdd

_"Jason?? Jason. Happy Friday the 13th kiddos "_

----------


## Sergard

al_yenn




hooga_booga




shu(@syusyusyu1515)

----------


## Jackalope89

Young Justice Jason after taking a swim in the Lazarus Pit.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Here we go, regular cover. Still looking for that Variant cover though.


Ooh, LumberBiz

----------


## Red obin

> Ooh, LumberBiz


Is that old or new artemis design? The hair seems to be back to normal, with the ponytail unless it's somehow still parted to one side and ponytailed? The chest piece is old, but the cape and lack of headpiece is new.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Is that old or new artemis design? The hair seems to be back to normal, with the ponytail unless it's somehow still parted to one side and ponytailed? The chest piece is old, but the cape and lack of headpiece is new.


I think the hair grew back by now, but the headpiece was lost at some point.

But LumberBiz looks pretty cool.

----------


## Sergard

The cover of Red Hood: Outlaw #40 still shows Artemis with an undercut. But the hair is already longer. In the annual and in the panels of RH:O #37 Artemis looked cleanly-shaven/completely bold on the left side of her head.

I hope Artemis returns to her old Rebirth design and that Bizarro keeps his new "LumberBiz" look (and that he meets his circus lady from the first annual again.)

----------


## Zaresh

> I think the hair grew back by now, but the headpiece was lost at some point.
> 
> But LumberBiz looks pretty cool.


I've always liked bearded Supes, so you guess I'll love if Biz keeps his beard too.
Besides, that would make this Bizarro more easy to tell apart from the other.
And maybe a different name with time.

----------


## RedBird

> I hope Artemis returns to her old Rebirth design and that Bizarro keeps his new "LumberBiz" look


Same here, I really like her excessively long ponytail, especially the way Soy would have it moving about in battle, twas dynamic. And for Biz, I also just like that the beard helps to differentiate him from other Bizarros in the DC universe.

----------


## Sergard

> [...]
> And maybe a different name with time.


What's wrong with Biz(arro)?

----------


## Jackalope89

> The cover of Red Hood: Outlaw #40 still shows Artemis with an undercut. But the hair is already longer. In the annual and in the panels of RH:O #37 Artemis looked cleanly-shaven/completely bold on the left side of her head.
> 
> I hope Artemis returns to her old Rebirth design and that Bizarro keeps his new "LumberBiz" look (and that he meets his circus lady from the first annual again.)


Never been a fan of that style of haircut that Artemis has. Just never appealed to me, personally.

----------


## Zaresh

> What's wrong with Biz(arro)?


Nothing really wrong, but when people talk about Bizarro, they tend to think about the original version of Bizarro. It's a thing that keeps happening, and having a different alias or name would help. Would make for a pretty nice story arc too, about stopping being an experiment with an experiment's name and gaining his own name.

Right now, he only has an alias that works as his name as well, and that name is also the name of a notably more famous character. Getting his own name, an alter ego, would help, I think.

----------


## Restingvoice

Yeah, when I think of Bizarro the first thing that came to mind is the Bizarro of Planet Bizarro. Specifically, the one that showed up in an old Superman/Batman cover wearing stone and chain necklace with his name on it.

----------


## Sergard

@trash061

----------


## gwhh

How many people had Todd killed so far?  In that one issue when he looks himself up on the computer!

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> How many people had Todd killed so far?  In that one issue when he looks himself up on the computer!


There's no set number, Tynion made up the number in that annual.

Far as we've seen through the three series though, he rarely kills. During the first run the only confirmed kills were:

-An unknown number of Qurac mercenaries (Issue 1)
-Susie Zu's bodyguard (Issue 2)
-Those terrorists that tried to hijack his plan at the start of Tynion's run (issue 19)
-A plane filled with terrorists trying to nuke Washington DC (issue 32)
-An unkown number venom using mercenaries (issue 36)
-He was more trigger happy against aliens and supernatural entities but so is Batman so they don't really count.

During RH/Arsenal:
-Palette (issue 1)
-That rogue STAR Scientist (issue 2)
-More mercenaries (issue 3)
-The Iron Rule (issue 13)

And in the current run
-The Underlife mooks through the entire Outlaw arc (issues 26-30)

----------


## RedBird

David Messina

----------


## RedBird

nac-nic

----------


## RedBird

Dustin Nguyen

_the broodiest of the bunch. #jasontodd_

----------


## redmax99

> There's no set number, Tynion made up the number in that annual.
> 
> Far as we've seen through the three series though, he rarely kills. During the first run the only confirmed kills were:
> 
> -An unknown number of Qurac mercenaries (Issue 1)
> -Susie Zu's bodyguard (Issue 2)
> -Those terrorists that tried to hijack his plan at the start of Tynion's run (issue 19)
> -A plane filled with terrorists trying to nuke Washington DC (issue 32)
> -An unkown number venom using mercenaries (issue 36)
> ...


no he didn't that number was from vol 1 23 of batman and robin when he went to blackgate that was just everyone he poisonRCO017 (2).jpg

----------


## Arsenal

> no he didn't that number was from vol 1 23 of batman and robin when he went to blackgate that was just everyone he poisonRCO017 (2).jpg


I believe gwhh was referring to RHATO (2011) annual #1, where Jason looked up “Red Hood” & discovered he had a body count of 83.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Yeah, I was talking of the RHATO Annual. At this point I don't consider anything from pre N52 as relevant.

----------


## Sergard

> I believe gwhh was referring to RHATO (2011) annual #1, where Jason looked up Red Hood & discovered he had a body count of 83.


Here's the page:

----------


## Sergard

Tiago Palma




samy_sam_sam



slytherik

----------


## Sergard

Elvis Lee

_"I tried this kind of comics. I want to tell something about Dick and Jason.The story begins after the film Under the Redhood. I changed the ending a little"_

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Also from Messina



https://www.instagram.com/p/B0lhvkziTXh/

----------


## Sergard

Since when is the "Prince of Gotham" in the title missing (again)?

----------


## Zaresh

> Since when is the "Prince of Gotham" in the title missing (again)?


I didn't notice until now, but I think the title may have been shorter than usual for a week and a half or so.

----------


## RedBird

> Since when is the "Prince of Gotham" in the title missing (again)?


Oh! So it wasn't on purpose? I just assumed you had removed it, I _think_ I noticed the name change like two weeks ago. Strange.

----------


## Kaled

I was looking back at some previous pages in this thread and I saw this picture: Batman and Red Hood.jpg. 
I would like this uniform for Hood's next costume. His current one is okay but I would like something similar to his previous uniform. The only problem I have is because of the 2 swords. Does the uniform have too much of a Deadpool "feel" to it? Otherwise I love this piece.

----------


## Arsenal

Technically he has 4 of them.

----------


## RedBird

I had, WAY too much fun labeling these. 

_Teddy bear/Jason_

RedDragonHyaena



New52 Robin Jason /// New52 Red Hood /// DCYOU (rha) Red Hood

Wingman Jason /// Mother Panic Red Hood /// DC Rebirth Red Hood

Batwoman Future: Red Hood /// Gotham City Garage Red Hood /// DC Rebirth post#25 Red Hood.



Post Crisis Robin Jason /// Hush Jason /// Under the Red Hood: Red Hood

Countdown Red Robin Jason /// Arkham Knight Robin Jason /// Arkham Knight civilian Jason

Arkham Knight Jason /// Arkham Knight with Red Hood visor /// Arkham Knight: Red Hood



Pre-Crisis Robin Jason /// Morrison Jason /// Flashpoint Father Todd

Countdown Earth 15 Batman Jason /// Battle for the cowl Jason /// Injustice 2 evil Batman Jason (comics)

Injustice 2 Red Hood Jason (Video Game) /// Red Ronin Jason (Hood down) /// Red Ronin Jason (Hood up)

----------


## RedBird

And also bonus Rebirth Jason with the outlaws.

----------


## Zaresh

> I had, WAY too much fun labeling these. 
> 
> [...]





> And also bonus Rebirth Jason with the outlaws.


Lovely.
That's dedication, creating every possible version of Jason as teddy bears. And crazy. And awesome.

----------


## Sergard

> Oh! So it wasn't on purpose? I just assumed you had removed it, I _think_ I noticed the name change like two weeks ago. Strange.


Nope. I can't change the thread title myself after the thread has been created.
And yes, it's strange. But I have sent a message to a mod. I hope our Prince of Gotham will return soon ;-).



remina




Lunafreyator





Sam(@sferiolla) (artworks by Kael Ngu)

_"Kael Ngu came to our school for a sharing session today and he was so kind he even refused us to pay him when we asked for a sketch! I'm beyond happy today"_

----------


## RedBird

kiome-yasha



_'The Hard couple in Titans. I cant wait for JayRose!'_

----------


## Sergard

RedRidingHood




@nockuth




@_Sae0000

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

114. RED HOOD OUTLAW #37 (DC) - 18,585 [119]

https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...9/2019-08.html

----------


## Zaresh

> 114. RED HOOD OUTLAW #37 (DC) - 18,585 [119]
> 
> https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...9/2019-08.html


Good. Stable.

And the Prince of Gotham is back in the title already.

----------


## Jackalope89

Biz, too tight!

----------


## gwhh

You are correct.  Cant believe its been 9 since that issue come out!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_alaRcjUCQ&t=125s




> I believe gwhh was referring to RHATO (2011) annual #1, where Jason looked up Red Hood & discovered he had a body count of 83.

----------


## Sergard

Finalized cover of Red Hood: Outlaw #38 (cover art by Dan Mora):

----------


## Sergard

lindatart

----------


## Sergard

lindatart




lindatart

----------


## Sergard

lindatart

----------


## Sergard

Fade




@ikaliu0324



@ikaliu0324

----------


## Sergard

@L6BF0bq6MZyVCOC

_"Happy Moon Festival!!!!
Chinese moon cake is too sweet so Jason need  a cup of cola."_



@talths

_"I live for #JasonTodd s casual outfits in Titans"_




@moon115115

----------


## Sergard

@xylo_bee



02

----------


## Sergard

rin(@komieci)

_"jarro meeting some of the family and everyone being secretly charmed/thrown off by him calling them big bros please let me dream"_

----------


## RedBird

neukgol

----------


## Sergard

That's my kind of humor  :Cool: 

historyoftherobin

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

God Dammit DC.




> *Under the Blood Red Hood*
> Jason Todd had a much rockier go at being Robin. It ended in his death at the hands of the Joker...which is not great, but death seemingly can’t stop a Robin from growing up. Todd is resurrected by Ra’s al Ghul and the Lazarus Pit and emerges a changed, violent man. He becomes the Red Hood—a vigilante often willing to shoot and kill criminals in the name of justice. Of course, this puts him at odds with Batman, the guy who’s all about no murder and no guns.
> 
> Jason returned a twisted version of his former self, the lessons he learned as Robin wrung into a violent parody. His return turned him into an effective killer and a morally bankrupt antihero. Very anti-Robin qualities by anyone's standards.


https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2019/0...e-beyond-robin

----------


## Arsenal

Feels like the article's write up is primarily based on the pre-flashpoint stuff.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Feels like the article's write up is primarily based on the pre-flashpoint stuff.


Or someone that prefers that version (and I know there's a couple on this site).

----------


## Jackalope89

> God Dammit DC.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2019/0...e-beyond-robin


Guy who wrote it has his twitter account on there. I don't use twitter, but maybe someone who does could shoot him a message about how that interpretation is about a decade out of date?

----------


## Zaresh

> Guy who wrote it has his twitter account on there. I don't use twitter, but maybe someone who does could shoot him a message about how that interpretation is about a decade out of date?


I do have a twitter account, but at this point, I have no energy to spare pointing that out. It's futile. It's not only wrong in my eyes about how they see Jason: it's factual wrong, even (Jason wasn't resurrected by the pit, or even Ra's has any hand on it; Talia throw already-alive Jason in without Ra's knowing). It's like the writer hasn't read a comic with Jason outside Batman's main material pre-FP. Hell, looks like he didn't even read the Under the Hood original arc. It does seem like they're a big Dick Grayson fan. But again, pre-PF. And, oh, hypocrytical, because apparently, there's nothing wrong with Damian being allowed to kill, not twisted morals for a Robin or whatsoever.

Pfff... Whatever. He's probably a general reader (nothing bad with that) and goes with the general understanding of the dynamics and characters (pretty understandable: time effort), which tends to be shallow and outdated in my experience. Just the same that happens with most of the gen journalism.

He he, I would love to write an article, but I cannot manage myself in English well enough and have no place where I could publish such work (I could in Spanish, I'm a collaborator for a small news site). But then, as I always say, I know very little about Tim's tenure (which means that I really, really need to catch up with Robin).

----------


## Restingvoice

Attachment 87186

Originally from Instagram and Screenshotted for Tumblr 

Don't go to the Insta post unless you like everyone making the same crowbar joke

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Attachment 87186
> 
> Originally from Instagram and Screenshotted for Tumblr 
> 
> Don't go to the Insta post unless you like everyone making the same crowbar joke


Attachment doesn't work.

----------


## Restingvoice

Ugh. This old website.

tumblr_8025ce456cbcf858785c0a08fcd6e41e_a4d3e72e_400.jpg

----------


## Sergard

voidmash




Shoucolate

----------


## Sergard

I just want to point out that I don't consider Jason a twisted version of his former self.
I also don't agree with the statement that he wrung his lessons learned as Robin into a violent parody.
Neither do I consider him morally bankrupt.
And apparently I'm not anyone because Jason isn't anti-Robin by my standards.

----------


## Zaresh

> I just want to point out that I don't consider Jason a twisted version of his former self.
> I also don't agree with the statement that he wrung his lessons learned as Robin into a violent parody.
> Neither do I consider him morally bankrupt.
> And apparently I'm not anyone because Jason isn't anti-Robin by my standards.


Yeah, it's wrong however you look at it.
And it's even worst that it's so fine with anything Damian does, when some of the conflicts both represent to Batman's code and differences to Dick and Tim ways are the same.

----------


## Sergard

doc-squash

_"Modern-day poetry right here."_




doc-squash




doc-squash

_Tim: Oh, trust me. I still do.
#Mostly by Damian for not sharing_

----------


## Sergard

doc-squash

----------


## Sergard

doc-squash (continuation)

_Bruce: and I always will._




doc-squash

----------


## Arsenal

> I just want to point out that I don't consider Jason a twisted version of his former self.
> I also don't agree with the statement that he wrung his lessons learned as Robin into a violent parody.
> Neither do I consider him morally bankrupt.
> And apparently I'm not anyone because Jason isn't anti-Robin by my standards.


You could possibly make an argument that description applies to Morrison’s Jason or TentaTodd but that’s still a decade or so out of date.

----------


## Sergard

> 02


02

_Who put stars in your eyes.

#JasonTodd_

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Pipe dream, but I'd love to see Jason get one of those "character through the years" pinups that Nicola Scott did for the Trinity and Dick.

----------


## Sergard

> Pipe dream, but I'd love to see Jason get one of those "character through the years" pinups that Nicola Scott did for the Trinity and Dick.


Something like that would be cool. But I'd prefer Kenneth Rocafort or Dexter Soy&Veronica Gandini over Nicola Scott - and something more dynamic. The characters could have different poses and some accessories (weapons, etc.). And I definitely want to see some alternate universe Jason Todds too.

There are already incredible fanarts showing something similar.

uth69



JJMK



And a cute one:

Fade (for JJMK)

----------


## Sergard

@nuu__t




@nuu__t




@nuu__t

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Fade (for JJMK)


Why there four Rebirth Jasons?

----------


## RedBird

virtualmockingbird

_hero of asphalt_

----------


## RedBird

lime-time

----------


## Sergard

Dylan Andrews




adriana




Noirgoat

----------


## Jackalope89



----------


## Sergard

pelly(@nom967)




shoucolate




Kao (@kaokaocin)

----------


## Sergard

@2487164667Y (from 2017)




@2487164667Y (from 2017)




Joseph Ferguson

----------


## Sergard

I'm not sure but I think I remember a scene in which Jason had an interior monologue about love and friendship being basically the same thing. Can someone remember the issue?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I'm not sure but I think I remember a scene in which Jason had an interior monologue about love and friendship being basically the same thing. Can someone remember the issue?


RHATO V1 #6

----------


## Sergard

> RHATO V1 #6


Thanks for sharing.  :Smile: 
No wonder I didn't find it. I started with issue 40 and searched backwards (and gave up pretty quickly). Somehow I thought that the quote popped up very late in the run.

----------


## Jman27

any of you guys watching titans season 2 right now. I'm enjoying Jason a lot hes a hot head but has his moments of insecurity. He seems kinda young to attempt to kill him off but I wonder if they will try

----------


## Jackalope89

> any of you guys watching titans season 2 right now. I'm enjoying Jason a lot hes a hot head but has his moments of insecurity. He seems kinda young to attempt to kill him off but I wonder if they will try


He's 20...

----------


## Jman27

> He's 20...


I know the actor is but what about the show though he seems like hes 16 or 17 then again I dont know what age Jason became Red Hood

----------


## Zaresh

> I know the actor is but what about the show though he seems like he’s 16 or 17 then again I don’t know what age Jason became Red Hood


I think the general idea is that he became Red Hood around his 17. He died around his 15, if memory serves me right; maybe 16 in the current continuity, I can't remember. Dark or Aazh may know the right ages for both events in both continuities.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I know the actor is but what about the show though he seems like he’s 16 or 17 then again I don’t know what age Jason became Red Hood


Not what I meant. Last season, in the show, Jason said he was 20. 

Don't ask me why they decided to bump his age up so much, but they did.

----------


## Sergard

> Not what I meant. Last season, in the show, Jason said he was 20. 
> 
> Don't ask me why they decided to bump his age up so much, but they did.


And Jason didn't lie about his age?
Wasn't there a scene in comics in which Jason told Talia his age and she called him a liar? (Maybe I'm completely wrong. I didn't read anything like that myself.)
This could be a reference.

----------


## Sergard

@_Sae0000

_Jason Todd in The League of Assassins_

----------


## Sergard

@_Sae0000




remina(@akkiyamia)




@nuu__t

----------


## Restingvoice

> @nuu__t


I know that's probably Father Todd, but when they go overboard with beauty and fashion like that it makes him look like the last boss in some Japanese game. The cold beautiful man in white. Vampire optional.




> Not what I meant. Last season, in the show, Jason said he was 20. 
> 
> Don't ask me why they decided to bump his age up so much, but they did.


Oh wow. Wouldn't guess that. His attitude is more like 16-17. 19 tops. 20 is the age where college guys usually started to think "oh shit... I'm 20.. I'm gonna have to find a job in less than 2 years" and starting to stop acting like high schoolers. Well... a lot of the ones I know... doesn't mean there's no one that'll wait until the last year.

----------


## Jackalope89

> And Jason didn't lie about his age?
> Wasn't there a scene in comics in which Jason told Talia his age and she called him a liar? (Maybe I'm completely wrong. I didn't read anything like that myself.)
> This could be a reference.


Considering it was Dick that asked him, I don't see why Jason would lie about that.

----------


## Sergard

Nocturna really knows how to set the mood for a bedtime story (from Batman #379):



And here's young (pre-crisis) Jason in love for the first time. (from Detective Comics #565).

----------


## Aahz

> I think the general idea is that he became Red Hood around his 17. He died around his 15, if memory serves me right; maybe 16 in the current continuity, I can't remember. Dark or Aazh may know the right ages for both events in both continuities.


In the current continuity it was said that he was 16 when he became Robin and 17 when he died, but I don't know if that is still canon or is going to be changed when the whole Rebirth Doomsday Clock stuff is resolved.

Pre Flashpoint is not really clear. He was at the oldest 12 when he met Bruce. Him being 15 when he died is not from any actual comic (it is from a book called the Batman files) and doesn't really line up with the timeline.
Imo couldn't have really been with Bruce for more then two years, which would put him at an age of 13 or 14 when he died.

----------


## Zaresh

I've just caught with Titans season 2. It's slightly better than what the first episode of this season was, but just marginally. Eh, the fighting scenes are not very subtle, in where you can see them just gesturing and posing cool and all, but they don't really feel like they're really fighting (except for a few times in each fight). The action itself is, eh... So you see, you put someone in a dark tunnel with a light in their hand as if it were dark everywhere... except, there're plenty of lights and they see just fine and the light doesn't give any more help. Stuff like that.

I'm not a fan. It feels like a not very good sentai series (which is a fair comparison, but I would expect better from this show because I'm guessing their budget is bigger). It's entertaining, but you need to overlook that stuff.

----------


## RedBird

mixedtae

----------


## Jackalope89

> I've just caught with Titans season 2. It's slightly better than what the first episode of this season was, but just marginally. Eh, the fighting scenes are not very subtle, in where you can see them just gesturing and posing cool and all, but they don't really feel like they're really fighting (except for a few times in each fight). The action itself is, eh... So you see, you put someone in a dark tunnel with a light in their hand as if it were dark everywhere... except, there're plenty of lights and they see just fine and the light doesn't give any more help. Stuff like that.
> 
> I'm not a fan. It feels like a not very good sentai series (which is a fair comparison, but I would expect better from this show because I'm guessing their budget is bigger). It's entertaining, but you need to overlook that stuff.


Actually, the martial arts is pretty on point so far.

----------


## Zaresh

> Actually, the martial arts is pretty on point so far.


Mmmm, I don't know. I may be spoiled by other shows and unrealistic expectations. I cannot stop watching it and thinking "yeah, he totally put the stick/head/fist just in the right place for the other to hit/get away of the next move". Like when

*spoilers:*

Dick and Rose where fighting, and in the last part, he put his stick just in the side of her head and then she moved way afterwards to not being hit. Or when Jason and Gar were fighting; or when Dick was making some demo for Gar, Raven and Jason over under what conditions they could have to fight. I don't know. Then you see some really nice acrobatics with Dick and Jason that are really, really cool and, natural? Something like that
*end of spoilers*

But I know nothing about martial arts. Like I said, unrealistic expectations (because actual arts are like this).

----------


## Sergard

orionotaking




John Dela Cruz

----------


## Zaresh

> orionotaking
> 
> 
> 
> 
> John Dela Cruz


Very, very good stuff.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Some guy is trying to make some noise on Twitter to get on DC's radar the idea of a Red Ronin series.
https://twitter.com/RoninSsk/status/1175096415820947457

And Dexter says he's game for it.
https://twitter.com/dextersoy/status...31553878142976

So if anyone here has Twitter, please retweet both. We don't lose anything and I know of good source that fan support has helped Jason in the past.

----------


## Sergard

> Some guy is trying to make some noise on Twitter to get on DC's radar the idea of a Red Ronin series.
> https://twitter.com/RoninSsk/status/1175096415820947457
> 
> And Dexter says he's game for it.
> https://twitter.com/dextersoy/status...31553878142976
> 
> So if anyone here has Twitter, please retweet both. We don't lose anything and I know of good source that fan support has helped Jason in the past.


Seems like someone here is going to create a Twitter account tonight in order to retweet some stuff  :Big Grin: 
(and to follow some amazing artists)

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

From the Red Hood Outlaw Vol 1. TPB. I must say, some of the scrapped ideas (particularly the ones tying the design to Roy) are so much better than what we got.





Why yes, I still hate the angry penguin logo.

----------


## Sergard

amy




Sdimo




@ikaliu_tw

----------


## Sergard

Virtual_Mockingbird




@hara_1008

----------


## Sergard

@_hian_nm






@nockuth

----------


## Jackalope89

Jason Todd- 1
Mongul- 0

----------


## Restingvoice

> @_hian_nm


Oh that's Bruce XD

I was confused why are Tim and Damian so giggly to each other and Jason angrily said his own name

----------


## Sergard

> Oh that's Bruce XD
> 
> I was confused why are Tim and Damian so giggly to each other and Jason angrily said his own name


"Bruce" is Damian. The batboys are age-reversed. So Damian is the oldest, then Tim (look at the coffee cup, it even has his logo), Jason is the second youngest and Dick is the tiny giggly one.  :Smile:

----------


## Zaresh

> Oh that's Bruce XD
> 
> I was confused why are Tim and Damian so giggly to each other and Jason angrily said his own name


I think that's Damian, and they're all reverse aged Robins. Look at the hair style of the littlest one; that's Dick. And then you have the tallest one, who is Tim, with a coffee in one hand and his phone in the other.

EDIT: ops. Late.

----------


## Sergard

The BatFam Fashion Zine has stretch goals now.

_STRETCH GOAL #1 !

we are just over 60 preorders, if we can reach 75 then ALL orders will receive one of these incredible bonus prints by @inkydandy
_

----------


## Sergard

> evinist: Detective Pikabat part 21


continuation: (artwork by evinist)
_Detective Pikabat 22*spoilers for Detective Pikachu Movie_

----------


## Sergard

Nicko Febriansyah




Nico Febriansyah




inihiu

----------


## Zaresh

> continuation: (artwork by evinist)
> _Detective Pikabat 22*spoilers for Detective Pikachu Movie_


Awwww... Damn. This comic keeps getting even cuttier.

----------


## Sergard

Paz(@ivokiku)




yanagi




yanagi

----------


## Zaresh

Soooo... going by the preview pages of Curse of the White Knight

*spoilers:*

Either Jason Blood is now a priest and has black/very dark hair, or we are dealing with a Father Todd in this verse. Or could be that Murphy created a new character. Seems like it's an occult detective trope character, so it could be the first case, but, who knows.

*end of spoilers*

I guess we will know in issue 4.

----------


## Sergard

> Soooo... going by the preview pages of Curse of the White Knight
> 
> *spoilers:*
> 
> Either Jason Blood is now a priest and has black/very dark hair, or we are dealing with a Father Todd in this verse. Or could be that Murphy created a new character. Seems like it's an occult detective trope character, so it could be the first case, but, who knows.
> 
> *end of spoilers*
> 
> I guess we will know in issue 4.


*spoilers:*
My guess is Jason Blood because of the long white streak and the glass of wine. Jason Todd's white streak normally looks different, more centered at the front instead of going all the way back. But it would be cool to see Father Todd again.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Zaresh

> *spoilers:*
> My guess is Jason Blood because of the long white streak and the glass of wine. Jason Todd's white streak normally looks different, more centered at the front instead of going all the way back. But it would be cool to see Father Todd again.
> *end of spoilers*


If he is, he definitely looks young.

*spoilers:*

If I'm not mistaken, he's supposed to be quite mature, much like Jim Corrigan (who is another character that sometimes has a white streak. But he's definitely not that guy). Older looking than Bruce.

Could be that Murphy has made a mix of the two. He doesn't seem to stick too much to the actual classic canon, for whatever reason (which is something I like). And had said that maybe Jason could show in this sequel, iirc. But, eh, yeah, I guess it's just that he made Blood a priest. That character showing up is a surprise I didn't see coming.

*end of spoilers*

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

*spoilers:*
Jason never died in the White Knight Universe, so he shouldn't have the streak anyways. That said, I do remember Murphy saying once that Jason's plotline would be picked up at the end of this series, to be the focus of the third saga
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Finally got the DC Essentials and the Hiya Toys Red Hoods



The sculpting and the detail in both is amazing, and personally, I think the Essentials is THE Jason figure in the foreseeable future. Although I have to admit that as someone that also collects japanese action figures, the way is nearly impossible to pull any dynamic pose with any of the existent figures is pretty disappointing. 



The articulation is there, but is just not enough. 

And here is my current collection.

----------


## Sergard

Jason Fabok

_"Finishing up a page that's taken me DAYS to complete...but it's worth it. Batman:Three Jokers is my love letter to you; the Batman fans.  You deserve the best and I want to give you my best.  Here's a sneak peek at a panel.  I absolutely love drawing Batgirl."_




I hope we'll see Jason Todd soon.

Also, Jason Fabok's answer when asked if the story is in-continuity:

_"It is, but isnt.  We are doing what we want to do no matter the consequences to the main continuity.  Some huge stuff will happen.  Super gutsy stuff no one's ever done... hows that for hype?"_

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

So in other words, much like Doomsday Clock it will be ignored by other writers.

----------


## Zaresh

> So in other words, much like Doomsday Clock it will be ignored by other writers.


That's my guess as well.
Unless it sells astonishingly well.

----------


## Sergard

JJMK






nockuth

----------


## Rise

> Jason Fabok
> 
> _"Finishing up a page that's taken me DAYS to complete...but it's worth it. Batman:Three Jokers is my love letter to you; the Batman fans.  You deserve the best and I want to give you my best.  Here's a sneak peek at a panel.  I absolutely love drawing Batgirl."_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope we'll see Jason Todd soon.
> 
> ...


The only comic that I'm really looking forward to and I hope it doesn't disappoint.

Them ignoring the mess that it's DC continuity makes me more hopeful for it to be worth the wait.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I hope we'll see Jason Todd soon.


He posted a close up of Jason back in May
https://twitter.com/JasonFabok/statu...97044033937413

----------


## Sergard

> He posted a close up of Jason back in May
> https://twitter.com/JasonFabok/statu...97044033937413


Yeah, I remember that one. I meant Jason without the helmet. I want to see how Jason Fabok's character design translates to an actual comic panel.
Sorry for the confusion.

----------


## RedBird

inkydandy

----------


## Sergard

> So in other words, much like Doomsday Clock it will be ignored by other writers.


Three Jokers and Doomsday Clock have the same main problem.
Both stories were written a while ago but because of artwork the release of the story happens many months later. In the meanwhile the status quo of the DC universe has changed.
So it's possible that those "old" stories don't fit continuity anymore and that it's the other way around. Three Jokers will ignore other writers' stories and changes in the DC universe from the last months.

----------


## Sergard

Fade





Fade





@4yottsu

----------


## Sergard

Sh3n4





Yaz





Paz(@ivokiku)

----------


## Sergard

I just rediscovered kannoponta's artworks and realized that only two (according to my search) of their amazing Jason Todd fanarts were posted in this/the old appreciation thread.

So here are some of my favorites (the artworks were published between 2013 and 2018) - which are A LOT because I love the art style:

kannoponta (from 2017.07.26)




kannoponta (from 2017.04.26)





kannoponta (from 2016.08.05)

_I drew Jay for Robins fan event in Taiwan._

----------


## Sergard

kannoponta (from 2016.08.04 )





kannoponta (from 2016.02.28)





kannoponta (from 2016.02.07)

_I love you, Bruce._

----------


## Sergard

kannoponta (from 2015.12.22)





kannoponta (from 2015.10.31)

_trick or treat_







kannoponta (from 2015.10.23)

----------


## Sergard

kannoponta (from 2015.10.13)




kannoponta (from 2015.04.20)







kannoponta (from 2015.01.27)

_The second birthday, birds fled._

----------


## Sergard

kannoponta (Jason and Barbara)






kannoponta (from 2014.09.29)







kannoponta (Jason and Tim)

----------


## Sergard

kannoponta (from 2014.07.19)




kannoponta (from 2013.11.25)




kannoponta (from 2014.03.03)

----------


## Sergard

kannoponta (from 2014.04.19)





kannoponta (from 2014.05.15)





kannoponta (from 2015.04.04 and posted in the old appreciation thread)

----------


## Sergard

and last but not least: more Alfred

kannoponta (from 2013.12.30)

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

https://thomaskinkade.com/art/the-da...s-gotham-city/

I wonder if the shadowy figure just beside the Flying Graysons marquee is supposed to be Jason.

----------


## Sergard

Is this a placeholder cover? The scene is inexpressive.

Batman: Death in the Family DC Showcase Animated Shorts

----------


## Sergard

Paz(@ivokiku)




02

_You're still here._



close-up

----------


## Sergard

Halcyon (from Jul 03, 2016)

----------


## Sergard

Virtual_Mockingbird

_#jasontodd #poisonivyAU
design by careamorran on Tumblr_




Virtual_Mockingbird

----------


## Restingvoice

> Virtual_Mockingbird
> 
> _#jasontodd #poisonivyAU
> design by careamorran on Tumblr_


I am weirdly aroused

----------


## Sergard

> I am weirdly aroused


I'm more scared that he's going to turn me into fertilizer for his plants.




@_Sae0000




Crow-Sizna (from 2018-12-17)




@ikaliu_tw

----------


## Celgress

> Virtual_Mockingbird


Just have to say this pic is awesome.  :Cool:

----------


## RedBird

Nick Robles

_Slooowly getting back into the groove of drawing on paper.

eYeBrOws Jason?_

----------


## RedBird

inkydandy is replenishing my soul with this John Wick/Jason Todd crossover.

----------


## Sergard

> inkydandy is replenishing my soul with this John Wick/Jason Todd crossover.


I don't know anything about the John Wick universe but this looks thrilling.

----------


## Clark_Kent

I didn't start reading Batman regularly until well into Knightfall, so I missed Jason's time as Robin (for a long time, literally the only story I had read with him as Robin was Death In the Family). With the DCU app, I've been going back to catch up on a lot of stuff I never read anywhere. Jason's time as Robin, pre-Crisis, during Moench's run was an interesting period! He's a good kid, no sign of the Robin they would turn him into. His relationship with Nocturna was interesting, as well as his jealousy (or just in general, hurt feelings) over all the time Batman was spending with Catwoman ("watch it, cat lady!" lol). 

He was a Grayson clone in many ways, but still managed to have his own stuff going on. The older stories certainly changed my opinion on Jason's time as Robin.

----------


## Celgress

> Virtual_Mockingbird


delete post

----------


## Zaresh

> I didn't start reading Batman regularly until well into Knightfall, so I missed Jason's time as Robin (for a long time, literally the only story I had read with him as Robin was Death In the Family). With the DCU app, I've been going back to catch up on a lot of stuff I never read anywhere. Jason's time as Robin, pre-Crisis, during Moench's run was an interesting period! He's a good kid, no sign of the Robin they would turn him into. His relationship with Nocturna was interesting, as well as his jealousy (or just in general, hurt feelings) over all the time Batman was spending with Catwoman ("watch it, cat lady!" lol). 
> 
> He was a Grayson clone in many ways, but still managed to have his own stuff going on. The older stories certainly changed my opinion on Jason's time as Robin.


I may be the only one here, but I think that he wasn't that different post-Crisis. He was already a very bold kid pre-Crisis, and clearly had a tendency to make his own choices regardless of anyone else's opinion. He was just a bit less angry. And that wasn't a problem until late into Starlin's run as far as I've seen. Both of them wore their hearts in their sleeves.

(Oh, would you like to post in our reading thread? I need to come back there and post too)

----------


## Clark_Kent

> I may be the only one here, but I think that he wasn't that different post-Crisis. He was already a very bold kid pre-Crisis, and clearly had a tendency to make his own choices regardless of anyone else's opinion. He was just a bit less angry. And that wasn't a problem until late into Starlin's run as far as I've seen. Both of them wore their hearts in their sleeves.
> 
> (Oh, would you like to post in our reading thread? I need to come back there and post too)


My bad if I posted in the wrong spot, I'll look for the reading thread. I just wanted to give my "appreciation"  :Smile:

----------


## Sergard

> My bad if I posted in the wrong spot, I'll look for the reading thread. I just wanted to give my "appreciation"


It's cool. Post wherever you want.  :Wink: 
The reading thread is still on hiatus anyway (we are still early in pre-crisis, shortly after Nocturna's introduction if I recall correctly.)

Pre-crisis Jason Todd is so underrated. I still prefer the post-crisis origin (it's my favorite Robin origin) but there's already a lot going on in pre-crisis that I love.
And as Zaresh mentioned, pre-crisis and post-crisis Jason share a lot of characteristics.

----------


## Zaresh

> My bad if I posted in the wrong spot, I'll look for the reading thread. I just wanted to give my "appreciation"


Nah, like @Sergard said, it's not wrong or anything. I was just wondering. I remembered that I was going to post there this summer and ended up forgetting about it.

----------


## Sergard

Bluellles




Rich Bernatovech




Rich Bernatovech

----------


## Jackalope89

Its not bad, but Damian looks like a toddler and Dick just looks off (can't quite put my finger on it).

----------


## Arsenal

It’s the ass.

That Dick does his push ups and sit ups but not enough squats.

----------


## Jackalope89

> It’s the ass.
> 
> That Dick does his push ups and sit ups but not enough squats.


That's what it was!

----------


## Sergard

@4yottsu




Fade




Fade

----------


## Talon1load

> Its not bad, but Damian looks like a toddler and Dick just looks off (can't quite put my finger on it).


Dick looks like he’s 12.

----------


## Sergard

Tony S Daniel

_#NYCC #Redhood #Batman #dccomics pre-show commission  I have no more time for ore shows, but I can take on a few at the show.  Or you can leave sketch books to be shipped later. Booth D48_






@4yottsu




@syusyusyu1515

----------


## Sergard

Titans Season 2 Episode 5 Deathstroke Photos & Synopsis Released (source)

_With the team thrown into upheaval, Dick and the others vow to do everything in their power to save Jason Todd's life. Gar's guilt over Jason's kidnapping complicates the mission to save their fellow Titan, while Rachel's dark secret continues to gnaw at her. When Deathstroke demands they turn over Rose in exchange for Jason, the moral crisis threatens to tear the team apart from the inside._

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Odds that is Deathstroke the one who kills Jason in this version?

----------


## RedBird

> I didn't start reading Batman regularly until well into Knightfall, so I missed Jason's time as Robin (for a long time, literally the only story I had read with him as Robin was Death In the Family). With the DCU app, I've been going back to catch up on a lot of stuff I never read anywhere. Jason's time as Robin, pre-Crisis, during Moench's run was an interesting period! He's a good kid, no sign of the Robin they would turn him into. His relationship with Nocturna was interesting, as well as his jealousy (or just in general, hurt feelings) over all the time Batman was spending with Catwoman ("watch it, cat lady!" lol). 
> 
> He was a Grayson clone in many ways, but still managed to have his own stuff going on. The older stories certainly changed my opinion on Jason's time as Robin.


Sweet
I feel like Jasons time as Robin generally seems to be overlooked in fandom, so it's always nice to see people discovering the comics from his early days.
And yeah, his 'cattiness' with catwoman was always pretty funny  :Big Grin:

----------


## RedBird

> Odds that is Deathstroke the one who kills Jason in this version?


Haven't seen the latest season yet, waiting for netflix, but based on my experience of season 1, I don't think the show ever seemed too fussed with canon, unless you're gripe is not with the change in the story but something else..?

On that note, I mean it's not confirmed, but hypothetically, assuming Slade is the one to kill Jason, considering the nature of the show, it being, _Dicks_ show, with characters and their stories _revolving_ around him, then the show runners changing Jasons death to be at Slades hand would fit their ideal.

Jason is a side character for Bruce? Bruces adversary Joker kills him.
Jason is a side character for Dick? Dicks adversary Deathstroke kills him.

----------


## Sergard

rik (Titans Season 2 Episode 5 fanart)




Tank (@jaykorre)

_Tim: Youre a thug.
Jason: I prefer the term Freedom Fighter.

Somewhere in the multiverse a cybernetically enhanced Jason finds a nifty little Drake Industries ancilla and together they take on the corrupt elite of Gotham._

----------


## Zaresh

> rik (Titans Season 2 Episode 5 fanart)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tank (@jaykorre)
> 
> _Tim: You’re a thug.
> Jason: I prefer the term Freedom Fighter.
> ...


Ooooh, I would totally read that story. More so if it's settled in, let's see, a Shadowrun campaign or something. Yeah, that could be the icing on the cake.

----------


## Shadowcat

Slowly getting caught up on the Rebirth Bat Books, among others, and was wondering what the overall consensus was on this current volume. Is it worth picking up?

----------


## RedBird

allyallyorange

----------


## RedBird

Dexter Soy

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Well, no sign of Jason in DCeased #5 and just one issue to go.

----------


## Sergard

> Slowly getting caught up on the Rebirth Bat Books, among others, and was wondering what the overall consensus was on this current volume. Is it worth picking up?


By "current volume" you mean the whole Red Hood and the Outlaws Rebirth run or the latest trade "Red Hood: Outlaw Vol 1: Requiem for an Archer"?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

More sneak peeks from issue 40






Also, has anyone else realized that if you count all the issues since the N52, we're close to the 100th issue?

----------


## cc008

Reading Batman, Detective Comics, Nightwing, & Redhood and the Outlaws.. just got through Death of the Family. I really loved Jason's roll in it all. These are the first few Batman/Batfamily stories I've read and I'm enjoying the hell out of them. Just as an observation, would it be fair to say Jason has a better relationship with Tim than he does with Dick?

----------


## Arsenal

> More sneak peeks from issue 40
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, has anyone else realized that if you count all the issues since the N52, we're close to the 100th issue?


Those previews are looking real good. Looks like we lucked out with the new artist. 

And yeah, I have. I’m just curious to see if we’ll reach issue 100 in this run or the next.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Reading Batman, Detective Comics, Nightwing, & Redhood and the Outlaws.. just got through Death of the Family. I really loved Jason's roll in it all. These are the first few Batman/Batfamily stories I've read and I'm enjoying the hell out of them. Just as an observation, would it be fair to say Jason has a better relationship with Tim than he does with Dick?


At the time? Yes. However, a few reality warping events have happened since that make it a little murky. Though before Dick's current direction, Dick and Jason were starting to bond a little.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> And yeah, I have. I’m just curious to see if we’ll reach issue 100 in this run or the next.


We should have around ten issues to go.

RHATO V1: 41 issues (#0-#40)

RHA: 13 issues

RHATO V2: 39 issues (Rebirth, #1-#38) so far.

93 issues. 99 issues if you count the five annuals and the Future's End issue.

----------


## Clark_Kent

> It's cool. Post wherever you want. 
> The reading thread is still on hiatus anyway (we are still early in pre-crisis, shortly after Nocturna's introduction if I recall correctly.)
> 
> Pre-crisis Jason Todd is so underrated. I still prefer the post-crisis origin (it's my favorite Robin origin) but there's already a lot going on in pre-crisis that I love.
> And as Zaresh mentioned, pre-crisis and post-crisis Jason share a lot of characteristics.


I can't seem to find the reading thread...help a guy out?  :Smile:

----------


## Sergard

> I can't seem to find the reading thread...help a guy out?


Sure, no problem  :Wink: 
The Jason Todd Reread (pre- and post-crisis)

----------


## Sergard

> Well, no sign of Jason in DCeased #5 and just one issue to go.


Since Tom Taylor mentioned on Twitter that the RH:O #39 variant by Karl Mostert (colors by Rex Lokus) inspired him to write something, I'm waiting for some RHatO-action in the DCeased-universe.
Even more since Karl Mostert twittered on 25th September: "_Just received one of the best emails of my career. Damn, I'm excited._"
And the comment section looks like this:

Karl Mostert twitter comments.JPG

I don't know who Ben Abernathy is. His twitter account says "Director of Talent Relations at DC Entertainment". And I can remember that his twitter header was the RH:O #39 variant for quite some time. So I have at least some hope left, that we'll see Jason and Co. in Taylor's zombie-universe.

----------


## Arsenal

Didn't he say there was more DCeased news coming soon? Maybe Jason's in some kind of spin off or sequel.

----------


## Shadowcat

> By "current volume" you mean the whole Red Hood and the Outlaws Rebirth run or the latest trade "Red Hood: Outlaw Vol 1: Requiem for an Archer"?


The entire Rebirth volume.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Slowly getting caught up on the Rebirth Bat Books, among others, and was wondering what the overall consensus was on this current volume. Is it worth picking up?


1-25 of Rebirth is awesome. After, it has ups and downs, but now its trending back up in quality.

----------


## Shadowcat

> 1-25 of Rebirth is awesome. After, it has ups and downs, but now its trending back up in quality.


Thanks so much.

----------


## Sergard

Dexter Soy





@4yottsu






nockuth

----------


## Sergard

@KevinEleventh





Chingsty (@PotatoGrayson)

----------


## Sergard

Artists on Twitter have the best humor.

Francis Xie

_jason todd but it's stretch pants support_





Response to this:

----------


## RedBird

stariver00

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I don't know who Ben Abernathy is. His twitter account says "Director of Talent Relations at DC Entertainment". And I can remember that his twitter header was the RH:O #39 variant for quite some time. So I have at least some hope left, that we'll see Jason and Co. in Taylor's zombie-universe.


He's DCeased editor.

----------


## Jackalope89

babysitterJason.jpg

A strangely effective babysitter. Though, probably not recommended for non-superhero kids.

----------


## Sergard

Jason Fabok

_Red Hood wins the poll!  Here's one of my favorite Red Hood panels... gearing up for war... #batman #threejokers_

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Jason Fabok
> 
> _Red Hood wins the poll!  Here's one of my favorite Red Hood panels... gearing up for war... #batman #threejokers_


Looks nice, but I still hate Fabok's costume.

EDIT: Also, Fabok's comments in that tweet confirms no news about Three Jokers at NYCC.

----------


## Sergard

Fade




Fade




pelly

----------


## Restingvoice

> babysitterJason.jpg
> 
> A strangely effective babysitter. Though, probably not recommended for non-superhero kids.


and a billionaire dad that can afford multiple screens




> stariver00


Stariver's artwork always looks so effortless




> Fade


and fade's artwork always looks like Jason's gonna get ****

Oh, that's why.  The url is bottomjay

----------


## Sergard

Zoe(@asinoeiv)






E.H Art

----------


## Sergard

singuminklarity





And for fans here who miss Artemis (and her long hair):

Sharon(@khyron_art)

----------


## RedBird

> Slowly getting caught up on the Rebirth Bat Books, among others, and was wondering what the overall consensus was on this current volume. Is it worth picking up?


I say, at the very very least pick up the first volume of rebirth rhato (includes the rebirth issue plus issues 1-6), overall consensus is that it's pretty damn great.

And if you find that you enjoy it and you have the means to continue with the series, then yeah, I gotta agree with Jackalope89 in that issues 1-25 (+ rebirth) are pretty solid as well. 
Post issue 25 its been a bit up and down, but still alright.

----------


## RedBird

> and fade's artwork always looks like Jason's gonna get ****


That's about the most apt way to put it

Ah, fans from all walks of life XD

----------


## Sergard

Inktober is the best month of the year.

Nazrud




Johnny Luuu Arts




dobraya.dama

----------


## Zaresh

> Inktober is the best month of the year.


It is, indeed. Lots of short fics too, usually (well, this year the stuff goes a bit between kinky and hurting, but otherwise, it's a pretty darn productive month as a whole. It's starting to win over November for me).

----------


## Jackalope89

> It is, indeed. Lots of short fics too, usually (well, this year the stuff goes a bit between kinky and hurting, but otherwise, it's a pretty darn productive month as a whole. It's starting to win over November for me).


I could really do without the "Whump-tober" stuff that's been popping up though. Same with the Damian/Marinette (Miraculous Tales of Ladybug and Cat Noir) stuff too (Jason apparently pops up as a side character in those, which is why I mention them).

----------


## Zaresh

> I could really do without the "Whump-tober" stuff that's been popping up though. Same with the Damian/Marinette (Miraculous Tales of Ladybug and Cat Noir) stuff too (Jason apparently pops up as a side character in those, which is why I mention them).


Yeah, I kind of agree about both. But in any case, anything that can make people write  new stuff is wellcome. By sheer numbers, something I may like could eventually pop up  :Smile: .

----------


## Sergard

@bluetost_T




@bluetost_T

----------


## Sergard

@moon115115

----------


## Restingvoice

The timeline for Jason Todd is super blurry in the New DC timeline this is all I can guess

Generation 2 Year 1 Batman and Superman debuts
Generation 2 Year 3 Dick Grayson debuts as Robin
Generation 2 Year 15 Crisis on Infinite Earths era - Dick Grayson debuts as Nightwing - Jason Todd debuts as Robin - this is a guess
Generation 3 Year 2 A Death in The Family era - Jason Todd murdered - this I'm sure
Generation 3 Year 11 Infinite Crisis era - this is just a benchmark
Generation 4 Year 1 - DickBats and Damian Robin - again, just a benchmark

It's possible he's back at Red Hood in Year 10 Generation 3, and the outlaws formed somewhere in Generation 4 after year 1, but it's completely unreadable

Generation 2 and 3 each take 15 years
Generation 4 is 5 years ending at Year of The Villains

----------


## Sergard

> The timeline for Jason Todd is super blurry in the New DC timeline this is all I can guess
> 
> Generation 2 Year 1 Batman and Superman debuts
> Generation 2 Year 3 Dick Grayson debuts as Robin
> Generation 2 Year 15 Crisis on Infinite Earths era - Dick Grayson debuts as Nightwing - Jason Todd debuts as Robin - this is a guess
> Generation 3 Year 2 A Death in The Family era - Jason Todd murdered - this I'm sure
> Generation 3 Year 11 Infinite Crisis era - this is just a benchmark
> Generation 4 Year 1 - DickBats and Damian Robin - again, just a benchmark
> 
> ...


All this talk about "generation" and "year" and a blurry timeline gives me a headache.
So Dick is already 20+ when he debuts as Nightwing. And he's now ... 40+?

----------


## Restingvoice

> All this talk about "generation" and "year" and a blurry timeline gives me a headache.
> So Dick is already 20+ when he debuts as Nightwing. And he's now ... 40+?


We don't know coz we only know the debut time. It depends on what age Dick became Robin. If he's around 10 then he's around 18 as Nightwing, but after that, he and Bruce will be too old. Bruce would've been around 60 at the timeline's end

----------


## Sergard

> We don't know coz we only know the debut time. It depends on what age Dick became Robin. If he's around 10 then he's around 18 as Nightwing, but after that, he and Bruce will be too old. Bruce would've been around 60 at the timeline's end


If Dick debuts as Robin in Year 3 and debuts as Nightwing in Year 15 then there are 12 Robin years. So Dick would be 22 if we assume he debuts with 10 years.

----------


## Restingvoice

> If Dick debuts as Robin in Year 3 and debuts as Nightwing in Year 15 then there are 12 Robin years. So Dick would be 22 if we assume he debuts with 10 years.


Oh yeah, I miscounted.

----------


## Zaresh

Mmmm... I was reading a little about those NYCC comments, and was wondering. Maybe we're going to end with a Jason that was dead for the actual years he was, and only came back when Hush started to be planned as a storyline. Heh, could be fun if they go for an actual honest 1:1 timeline, but with some elements* that alter the chronology and passing of time for main characters that are main (not only heroes and villains).

Something like how some marvel fans came up with the Franklin Richards theory. They sure have a good excuse now, with Doomsday Clock, Manhattan and all that. And with Morrison being around... And characters are aware of it, but subconsciously.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Mmmm... I was reading a little about those NYCC comments, and was wondering. Maybe we're going to end with a Jason that was dead for the actual years he was, and only came back when Hush started to be planned as a storyline. Heh, could be fun if they go for an actual honest 1:1 timeline, but with some elementalmente that alter the chronology and passing of time for main characters that are main (not only heroes and villains).
> 
> Something like how some marvel fans came up with the Franklin Richards theory. They sure have a good excuse now, with Doomsday Clock, Manhattan and all that. And with Morrison being around...


Oh. My. Okay. I somehow didn't think of Hush, but in the middle of the Batman timeline, there's one column only filled with one word, and I was like... what the heck is that?! 

I just need to confirm... did Hush... happened after No Man's Land but before Stephanie Brown debuts as Robin?

----------


## Zaresh

> Oh. My. Okay. I somehow didn't think of Hush, but in the middle of the Batman timeline, there's one column only filled with one word, and I was like... what the heck is that?! 
> 
> I just need to confirm... did Hush... happened after No Man's Land but before Stephanie Brown debuts as Robin?


I think so.
EDIT (on the actual way of writing this post): ha ha! Found a chronology for her https://stephaniebrown.fandom.com/wiki/Chronology
She was Robin in 2004, it seems. NML was in the very late 90's (1999).

As far as I recall, the story for Hush was started to be a concept even, I don't know, a year before it was actually released? I think I remember reading something like that somewhere. Hush was released mostly during 2003.

So, yes.

----------


## Restingvoice

Okay, yeah! Hush's last issue is 2003, Stephanie Robin starts 2004! It fits! 
Honestly, what else a significant Batman event that only has a one really short word? RIP, but that doesn't fit the timeline.

Update timeline!
Gen 2
Year 15 Dick Nightwing possibly Jason Robin
Gen 3 
Year 2 Jason Todd murdered
Year 4 Tim Drake Robin
Year 7 No Man's Land
Year 8 Hush
Year 9 Stephanie Brown Robin
Year 11 Infinite Crisis

----------


## Zaresh

> Okay, yeah! Hush's last issue is 2003, Stephanie Robin starts 2004! It fits! 
> Honestly, what else a significant Batman event that only has a one really short word? RIP, but that doesn't fit the timeline.
> 
> Update timeline!
> Gen 2
> Year 15 Dick Nightwing possibly Jason Robin
> Gen 3 
> Year 2 Jason Todd murdered
> Year 4 Tim Drake Robin
> ...


Gen 3 starts with COIE, right? So... Ha ha ha ha. Oh, these are some bold, bold, bold moves. I'll give them that.
For the record, I think that the picture just next to* Jason's death is for The Killing Joke. So that would be year 3 of Gen 3?

I'm not sure each column is a year though.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Gen 3 starts with COIE, right? So... Ha ha ha ha. Oh, these are some bold, bold, bold moves. I'll give them that.
> For the record, I think that the picture just besides Jason's death is for The Killing Joke. So that would be year 3 of Gen 3?


Crisis on Infinite Earths is the same as Nightwing debuts. Gen 2 Year 15
Yes, The Killing Joke is right after A Death in The Family, so yes, Gen 3 Year 3
Then right after that is Death of Superman and Tim Drake Robin

The title of each gen is Gen number, the name of the generation, then the number of year timeline. Then the columns are G1Y1 until it matches the number of years mentioned in the title.

At first I thought it's volume, but the number match

----------


## Zaresh

Ah, another one.
Year 10 of Gen 3, just next to Stephanie Brown debuts as Robin. I think the first one says "JASON IS RED HOOD". I can't tell the second and third in that year though. But I think the third one ends with Robin.

(This is where my skills reading very old and damaged documents shine in the digital era  :Big Grin: )

EDIT (for the thousand time): Year : column, then :3.
Ah, this is so much fun.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Ah, another one.
> Year 10 of Gen 3, just next to Stephanie Brown is Robin. I think the first one says " JASON IS RED HOOD". I can't tell the second and third in that year though. But I think the third one ends with Robin.
> 
> (This is where my skills reading very old and damaged documents shines in the digital era )


Year 10 as the place where Jason becomes Red Hood makes sense. I just can't make out the word. 

Oh. I forgot to mention.

Didio uploaded the clear version of Gen 4 on his Instagram, which starts with Dick as Batman and ends in Year of The Villains. 

There's no mention of Jason, Red Hood or Outlaws at all. Starfire is mentioned to be a member of Damian's Teen Titans and Roy as a member of Titans Rebirth. That's it.

----------


## Zaresh

> Year 10 as the place where Jason becomes Red Hood makes sense. I just can't make out the word.


I'm pretty sure the first one is what I've typed. Would be surprised if I've got it wrong. I can tell HOOD is the last word, and RED is the second to last. And Jason seems pretty clear too, or at least, the JA part.




> Oh. I forgot to mention.
> 
> Didio uploaded the clear version of Gen 4 on his Instagram, which starts with Dick as Batman and ends in Year of The Villains. 
> 
> There's no mention of Jason, Red Hood or Outlaws at all. Starfire is mentioned to be a member of Damian's Teen Titans and Roy as a member of Titans Rebirth. That's it.


I'll give a peek, then. Maybe I can make something more out.

----------


## Zaresh

Yaaaay! The pic for Gen 4 is crystal clear, so I'm back to Gen 3.

Another I can read: Year 14 (final crisis) says just below the black box thing " TIM DEBUTS AS RED ROBIN".

Which makes sense because that costume came to the DCU in countdown. But then, that also means, or could mean, that Tim became RR a whole year before Damian became Robin.

EDIT: Year 12, second input, it says "________ RETURNS AS BATMAN". Or something like that. I cannot for my life think what that one could be. Doesn't look like Bruce.

EDIT 2: and I correct myself,  the one below Jason Red Hood in year 10 may be ending with "debuts," not "Robin".

EDIT 3: hahahaha, oh, this is addictive. Gen 3 Year 7, the third input says "HARLEY QUINN DEBUTS".

----------


## Restingvoice

> Yaaaay! The pic for Gen 4 is crystal clear, so I'm back to Gen 3.
> 
> Another I can read: Year 14 (final crisis) says just below the black box thing " TIM DEBUTS AS RED ROBIN".
> 
> Which makes sense because that costume came to the DCU in countdown. But then, that also means, or could mean, that Tim became RR a whole year before Damian became Robin.
> 
> EDIT: Year 12, second input, it says "________ RETURNS AS BATMAN". Or something like that. I cannot for my life think what that one could be. Doesn't look like Bruce.
> 
> EDIT 2: and I correct myself,  the one below Jason Red Hood in year 10 may be ending with "debuts," not "Robin".
> ...


Oh yeah! Now I can see Tim Debuts as Red Robin. 

I don't know about the Batman part though. He never actually retired in that period unless you count One Year Later. I'm actually squinting for Batwoman since she debuted right after Infinite Crisis. 

Yes. Gen 3 Year 7 are No Man's Land, Cassandra Cain debuts as Batgirl, and Harley Quinn debuts. I doubt myself on the Cass part but all those three events happened at the same time so they fit. 

I know right? I've been glaring at this for hours and every time I found something new especially when other people also found a word I didn't recognize and then I connect it to the others!

----------


## Zaresh

> Oh yeah! Now I can see Tim Debuts as Red Robin. 
> 
> I don't know about the Batman part though. He never actually retired in that period unless you count One Year Later. I'm actually squinting for Batwoman since she debuted right after Infinite Crisis. 
> 
> Yes. Gen 3 Year 7 are No Man's Land, Cassandra Cain debuts as Batgirl, and Harley Quinn debuts. I doubt myself on the Cass part but all those three events happened at the same time so they fit. 
> 
> I know right? I've been glaring at this for hours and every time I found something new especially when other people also found a word I didn't recognize and then I connect it to the others!


The one about cassandra, it definitely says CASSANDRA in the first word of that part. Another one beats the dust! (I was looking for her, but couldn't find her name until you mentioned it).

I love decoding pictures and messages. It's a bit like solving mysteries and I love that. With old documents is the same too, but most of the time you are on your own and need to go away and come back to them often to look at the parts you couldn't tell with your new finds.

EDIT: Gen 3, Year 5. I may be wrong, but I think it reads " BIRTH OF THE DEMON". Pretty sure about the first two words.

Gen 3 Year 4, the last one may be "BARBARA GORDON DEBUTS AS ORACLE". But I'm not sure at all about that one.

----------


## Restingvoice

I FOUND ARTEMIS! I think. 

Gen 3 Year 5 Wonder Woman row, second phrase. Artemis debuts. After Death of Superman, Before Zero Hour

This follows the 90s era Artemis if true

----------


## Zaresh

> I FOUND ARTEMIS! I think. 
> 
> Gen 3 Year 5 Wonder Woman row, second phrase. Artemis debuts. After Death of Superman, Before Zero Hour
> 
> This follows the 90s era Artemis if true





> I FOUND ARTEMIS! I think. 
> 
> Gen 3 Year 5 Wonder Woman row, second phrase. Artemis debuts. After Death of Superman, Before Zero Hour
> 
> This follows the 90s era Artemis if true


Yeeeeey! I think you're right.
(I added a new one just when you posted. What do you think about that one?)

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

That timeline seems to be more like every "Generation" is in fact a new iteration of the DCU, rather than an actual timeline where everything fits neatly in sequence.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Yeeeeey! I think you're right.
> (I added a new one just when you posted. What do you think about that one?)


Could be. I read the next one after "Birth of the Demon" as "Damian's born" but the only reason I think that is because under Final Crisis is "Damian debuts"

I can definitely see the "of" 

But that sure fits 10 years and if we discount Damian's death for 1 year, he'll end up 13 in Rebirth anyway.

I honestly can't see anything in "Barbara Gordon debuts as Oracle" but it fits.

----------


## Zaresh

> Could be. I read the next one after "Birth of the Demon" as "Damian's born" but the only reason I think that is because under Final Crisis is "Damian debuts"
> 
> I can definitely see the "of" 
> 
> But that sure fits 10 years and if we discount Damian's death for 1 year, he'll end up 13 in Rebirth anyway.
> 
> I honestly can't see anything in "Barbara Gordon debuts as Oracle" but it fits.


The one about Damian's born, it could be; but I can't see much, to be honest. Sorry :/

I have news: the one about Batman returning in Year 12, is most probably "BARBARA RETURNS AS BATGIRL". Girl, not man, definitely. And the name fits too. So I guess we don't get Steph as Batgirl, but she was Robin instead. Weird.

EDIT: unless they're planning on making her Batgirl again and retire Barbara.

EDIT 2: yeah, the third one in the Year 10 place could be "BATWOMAN DEBUTS," I guess. Long name, a lot of stuff in the middle, which fits a WOM combo.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Didio posted the G4 bit on his instagram



https://www.instagram.com/p/B3NnS25B6Hx/

----------


## Sergard

Todd Nauck




Kasper

----------


## Restingvoice

> The one about Damian's born, it could be; but I can't see much, to be honest. Sorry :/
> 
> I have news: the one about Batman returning in Year 12, is most probably "BARBARA RETURNS AS BATGIRL". Girl, not man, definitely. And the name fits too. So I guess we don't get Steph as Batgirl, but she was Robin instead. Weird.
> 
> EDIT: unless they're planning on making her Batgirl again and retire Barbara.
> 
> EDIT 2: yeah, the third one in the Year 10 place could be "BATWOMAN DEBUTS," I guess. Long name, a lot of stuff in the middle, which fits a WOM combo.


I was looking for when Barbara return as Batgirl again so I guess that's it. Much earlier than I thought.

----------


## Aahz

> Year 15 Dick Nightwing possibly Jason Robin
> Gen 3 
> Year 2 Jason Todd murdered
> Year 4 Tim Drake Robin


Who did this research, Tim becomes Robin (or at lest starts to train) in the same year Jason died. Even in real life there was barley a year between Jasons death and Tims origin story.

----------


## Sergard

Milton Aguiar





Symeona Maria Kanellou




333leaves

----------


## Jackalope89

Jason&Artemiscosplay.jpg

A pretty good cosplay of Jason and Artemis that I found (was actually looking for fanart).

----------


## Zaresh

> Who did this research, Tim becomes Robin (or at lest starts to train) in the same year Jason died. Even in real life there was barley a year between Jasons death and Tims origin story.


Apparently, it's not a research, @Aahz. As far as I can understand the news, it's how they're outlining the past timeline for the current and next years continuity. It still is a draft, apparently, too.

----------


## Sergard

Dan Veesenmeyer

_My FINAL New York Comic Con Sketch Commission completed.
LEGO RED HOOD!
Batman Family of crime fighters.
As seen in the Lego DC Super Villains Video Game._ 






fadedwolf_artistry

----------


## Aahz

> Apparently, it's not a research, @Aahz. As far as I can understand the news, it's how they're outlining the past timeline for the current and next years continuity. It still is a draft, apparently, too.


But if they want to return to the time line that is closer to the original, why these changes.

The only reason I can see is that they will continue this wired trend of keeping Tim is his teens and ageing Jason up close to dicks generation.

----------


## Zaresh

> But if they want to return to the time line that is closer to the original, why these changes.
> 
> The only reason I can see is that they will continue this wired trend of keeping Tim is his teens and ageing Jason up close to dicks generation.


Why? Because it works better for the characters they're promoting, maybe.
It ties them better, I guess.

I don't think they're letting Tim being a teen. In fact, I think they'll try to age him a little bit. In that timeline he has been a Robin a whole lot of time, so it will mean that he probably reached 18 when he changed from Robin to Red Robin, from year 4 to year 14.
They're probably aging Jason a little bit too, and making him stay dead for a little more than originally. That depends on how long he has his Red Hood persona before he shows up officially in the timeline as such, in Year 10. That makes 8 years from his death.

I've put all I could learn from those Bleeding Cool readings and my own in this table for Generation 3 here, in case you want to glance throughout it.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

As some other users mentioned, it's not tying 1:1 year in the metaverse (?) with year in reality, and they're probably going to even short it more with whatever happened with the lost time that Manhattan's stolen. But I'm guessing that the gen 3 is pretty safe regarding how much time we see passing in that chart, and how much time actually passed in the comics. My best clue for that is Damian's age, because he seems to age 13 years from gen 3 up to our* current point in gen 4. I'm nominating COIE for the event that's going to help then de-aging characters and reassessing time.

They said that what we can see is still in the works, so, pfff. We will see next year, I guess. They could end even dropping the whole concept by then.

----------


## Konja7

> Why? Because it works better for the characters they're promoting, maybe.
> It ties them better, I guess.
> 
> I don't think they're letting Tim being a teen. In fact, I think they'll try to age him a little bit. In that timeline he has been a Robin a whole lot of time, so it will mean that he probably reached 18 when he changed from Robin to Red Robin, from year 4 to year 14.
> They're probably aging Jason a little bit too, and making him stay dead for a little more than originally. That depends on how long he has his Red Hood persona before he shows up officially in the timeline as such, in Year 10. That makes 8 years from his death.
> 
> I've put all I could learn from those Bleeding Cool readings and my own in this table for Generation 3 here, in case you want to glance throughout it.
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
> 
> ...


However, I think Flashpoint could de-age characters again. So, Tim could be a teenager again. 

Of course, it would be contradictory with Damian being 13, but when that have stopped DC.

----------


## Zaresh

> However, I think Flashpoint could de-age characters again. So, Tim could be a teenager again. 
> 
> Of course, it would be contradictory with Damian being 13, but when that have stopped DC.


Let's give them some credit: they're doing this because they want a comprehensive and coherent timeline—or so we're mean to believe. It would be a very bad start if they make some characters de-aging after flashpoint, and not some others. And I could totally see them making current Dick a 30-few year older (if they deage him with COIE to his late teens). He would come across as a millennial, which seems to be what the wanted to do a while back, right?

I mean, if it were me, I would make the whole gen 3 only 10 or 12 years at most. But, eh, whatever.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Why? Because it works better for the characters they're promoting, maybe.
> It ties them better, I guess.
> 
> I don't think they're letting Tim being a teen. In fact, I think they'll try to age him a little bit. In that timeline he has been a Robin a whole lot of time, so it will mean that he probably reached 18 when he changed from Robin to Red Robin, from year 4 to year 14.
> They're probably aging Jason a little bit too, and making him stay dead for a little more than originally. That depends on how long he has his Red Hood persona before he shows up officially in the timeline as such, in Year 10. That makes 8 years from his death.
> 
> I've put all I could learn from those Bleeding Cool readings and my own in this table for Generation 3 here, in case you want to glance throughout it.
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
> 
> ...


Oh if it's still in the works I'm gonna stop thinking about it. ^^ 
I like dissecting and guessing it because I thought it's fixed and they only need to announce it.

I wonder if they're gauging reaction now. See how many people are interested.

----------


## Zaresh

> Oh if it's still in the works I'm gonna stop thinking about it. ^^ 
> I like dissecting and guessing it because I thought it's fixed and they only need to announce it.
> 
> I wonder if they're gauging reaction now. See how many people are interested.


I bet they are XD.
I don't remember where I read it, but I remember reading that DiDio said that it stil wasn't a finished thing. And I can feel how it isn't: it lacks important recent events and characters in there, like the outlaws themselves, or stuff like Grayson or Forever Evil. And I feel like Flash and Green Arrow are lacking content. The Outsiders too, are nowhere to be found. And the whole Wildstorm (several not so recent bits).

----------


## Restingvoice

> I bet they are XD.
> I don't remember where I read it, but I remember reading that DiDio said that it stil wasn't a finished thing. And I can feel how it isn't: it lacks important recent events and characters in there, like the outlaws themselves, or stuff like Grayson or Forever Evil. And I feel like Flash and Green Arrow are lacking content. The Outsiders too, are nowhere to be found. And the whole Wildstorm (several not so recent bits).


Since there are many members of the Bat-family and only one row, I just don't think those are important enough to mention. I'm actually surprised that they mentioned Batman and Red Robin training Gotham vigilantes since that didn't really go anywhere. Court of Owls at least shape how Gotham is defined from that era onward.

----------


## Zaresh

> Since there are many members of the Bat-family and only one row, I just don't think those are important enough to mention. I'm actually surprised that they mentioned Batman and Red Robin training Gotham vigilantes since that didn't really go anywhere. Court of Owls at least shape how Gotham is defined from that era onward.


Yeah, that part was a bit out of the left field for me. It didn't affect a lot of books, or impacted the characters involved in that storyline much. It's a weird choice, letting that in but not the whole time of Dick in Spiral, for example. Or letting Death of the family in: that one at least affected three? more books.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Yeah, that part was a bit out of the left field for me. It didn't affect a lot of books, or impacted the characters involved in that storyline much. It's a weird choice, letting that in but not the whole time of Dick in Spiral, for example. Or letting Death of the family in: that one at least affected three? more books.


Now that I think about it, I think that one's inclusion is because it's related to the Oz Effect and Jor-El, which is mentioned right under it. Jor-El is the big one.

----------


## Zaresh

> Now that I think about it, I think that one's inclusion is because it's related to the Oz Effect and Jor-El, which is mentioned right under it. Jor-El is the big one.


Mmmm, it could be that.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I was looking through my files, and man is kind of funny how many artists that have worked on RHATO over the years have gone to become pretty high profile artists afterwards: Rocafort, RB Silva, Joe Bennet, Javier Fernandez.

----------


## Sergard

> Attachment 87928
> 
> A pretty good cosplay of Jason and Artemis that I found (was actually looking for fanart).


Cool cosplay. I wonder how the axe was made.
I sometimes come across cosplays by chance too when looking for fanarts.
There are some amazing Red Hood cosplays out there.
It always amazes me how much effort and love cosplayers put into their costumes.

----------


## Sergard

drawing-cookie





Malomedia.us




Andres Nunez(@astrubal_)

----------


## Sergard

@L6BF0bq6MZyVCOC





xiuxiu.jpg

----------


## RedBird

02png

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

It seems like the Red Hood statue is out, weird, I was expecting it to be released until December.

----------


## RedBird

spaceboykenny



_a broken bird._

----------


## RedBird

nockuth

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

The preview for Event Leviathan #5 is out and Jason is officially on the clear.

----------


## RedBird

> The preview for Event Leviathan #5 is out and Jason is officially on the clear.


So that's their main suspect now, and considering its issue 5 of 6 this _could_ legitimately be Leviathan. 

Hmm, I was getting really into those theories surrounding Green Arrow, and him being in cahoots with Leviathan for X reasons, that feels a little less likely now, but we'll see I guess.  :Smile: 

Also here's the preview link for anyone following this title.

----------


## Sergard

> So that's their main suspect now, and considering its issue 5 of 6 this _could_ legitimately be Leviathan. 
> 
> Hmm, I was getting really into those theories surrounding Green Arrow, and him being in cahoots with Leviathan for X reasons, that feels a little less likely now, but we'll see I guess. 
> 
> Also here's the preview link for anyone following this title.


I don't understand why Ra's Al Ghul was a suspect to begin with - and why they cross him off the list now.

And whenever I see some guy with last name Todd (or Gunn for that matter), I wonder if this could be one of Ma Gunn's other sons. I know it's 100% unlikely but it's late and I get crazy ideas when I'm sleepy.

----------


## Sergard

Javechan




Paz(ivokiku)




@lemon_mango1

----------


## Sergard

@lemon_mango1

----------


## Sergard

JH




art by Doug Mahnke




Adnan Ali(@addu_art)

----------


## batnbreakfast

What if Jason really was Hush instead of Tommy? Would we still have gotten Under the Red Hood or a story like it?

What if Harvey was Hush instead of Tommy?

----------


## Zaresh

> @lemon_mango1


This batch of pictures was adorable. I wish I knew corean.

----------


## Zaresh

> What if Jason really was Hush instead of Tommy? Would we still have gotten Under the Red Hood or a story like it?
> 
> What if Harvey was Hush instead of Tommy?


Both could've been more interesting than Tommy, maybe? I mean, well, at least, Harvey would've. I like the story for Under the Hood, but I can see Hush with Harvey and damn, would've been a really interesting spin (and a good story for him).

----------


## Sergard

Look what I have found on instagram (source):

According to Lobdell, Artemis is getting her hair back and Bizarro's beard stays.

instagram scott lobdell artemis hair.jpg

----------


## Zaresh

> Look what I have found on instagram (source):
> 
> According to Lobdell, Artemis is getting her hair back and Bizarro's beard stays.
> 
> instagram scott lobdell artemis hair.jpg


Awwwww yeah. I cannot stop smiling. It's perfect.

----------


## Arsenal

Ima guess and say she has her hair back by the start of the next arc.

Glad to see that Beardzarro is staying.

----------


## Sergard

Mia





@nuu__t





batfries

----------


## Restingvoice

> batfries


cuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuute

----------


## Sergard

dr4k-e-bunnie

----------


## Sergard

dr4k-e-bunnie

----------


## Sergard

dr4k-e-bunnie

----------


## Sergard

neebluarts




Arie Adnyana




@jaayybirdd

----------


## Jackalope89

> batfries


Would love to see more things like this in general.

----------


## Restingvoice

How old was Pre Crisis Jason when he first appeared? 
Dick was in Hudson so he's at least 18

----------


## Jackalope89

> How old was Pre Crisis Jason when he first appeared? 
> Dick was in Hudson so he's at least 18


10-12 I want to say?

----------


## Restingvoice

> 10-12 I want to say?


and since he died at 15 I'm gonna assume Post Crisis Jason began at 12?

What's the consensus on Willis Todd? The degree of abuse and who we work for can vary depending on continuity but being a criminal and abusive is a consistent characterization?

----------


## Arsenal

I believe so, though the level of abuse varies.

----------


## Restingvoice

As an addition, I like the idea that Willis regrets a lot of things he's done later in life and acted as Jason's secret supporter or protector in an attempt to make amends as long as the narrative makes it clear that this doesn't excuse him. How did that story go? Interrupted by Year of The Villains?

----------


## Arsenal

> As an addition, I like the idea that Willis regrets a lot of things he's done later in life and acted as Jason's secret supporter or protector in an attempt to make amends as long as the narrative makes it clear that this doesn't excuse him. How did that story go? Interrupted by Year of The Villains?


More like Lobdell planting a seed he plans to revist sometime down the road. Whether or not he gets to do it though is TBD.

----------


## Rise

> and since he died at 15 I'm gonna assume Post Crisis Jason began at 12?
> 
> What's the consensus on Willis Todd? The degree of abuse and who we work for can vary depending on continuity but being a criminal and abusive is a consistent characterization?


Not really. The abusive thing is something Lobdell come up with which I'm personally never been fan of (honestly, Jason's origin in n52 was really terrible).

Willis in post-crisis was apparently a medical student (which probably where he met Sheila) before he dropped his studies and become a low life criminal. He worked for Two face before he got betrayed by him and Jason thought that he abonden them until he find out that he was dead.

----------


## Zaresh

> and since he died at 15 I'm gonna assume Post Crisis Jason began at 12?
> 
> What's the consensus on Willis Todd? The degree of abuse and who we work for can vary depending on continuity but being a criminal and abusive is a consistent characterization?


I think that the 12yo bit for post-Crisis came from a letter to one of the writers.

I think the abusive part wasn't a thing until Lobdell's first run? Same as the drugs and Catherine. But maybe that part was mentioned before, in some batman comic.

To be honest, I think that pre-Crisis Jason was a bit older than post-Crisis. Maybe more childlike, but a year or so older. It's a feel he gives me.

----------


## Shadowcat

Is Rocafort back on the title? Or is Messina the new ongoing artist?

----------


## Zaresh

> Is Rocafort back on the title? Or is Messina the new ongoing artist?


Rocafort is for 3 issues, I think.

----------


## brenster21

> Look what I have found on instagram (source):
> 
> According to Lobdell, Artemis is getting her hair back and Bizarro's beard stays.
> 
> Attachment 88056


How can it be sooner than I expect when it is already later than I want? God I can't fucking wait to see dark trinity reunite and share what they have been up to.

----------


## Aahz

> How old was Pre Crisis Jason when he first appeared? 
> Dick was in Hudson so he's at least 18


Pre Crisis he was 12 in his first appearence (it is iirc one the first page he appears on).
And by time Dick passed the mantle of Robin on to Jason he was allready 19.

Jason being 15 when he died, is never mentioned in the comics, and imo doesn't really work with the timeline. Since he was proably with Bruce for only 2 years.

----------


## Shadowcat

> Pre Crisis he was 12 in his first appearence (it is iirc one the first page he appears on).
> And by time Dick passed the mantle of Robin on to Jason he was allready 19.
> 
> Jason being 15 when he died, is never mentioned in the comics, and imo doesn't really work with the timeline. Since he was proably with Bruce for only 2 years.


It could work, if his 13th birthday happened shortly after coming into Bruce’s care.

----------


## Shadowcat

> Rocafort is for 3 issues, I think.


So Messina is the new ongoing artist? Nice. I haven’t seen anything else from him, besides a few images here and there, but I’ve liked them so far.

----------


## Aahz

> It could work, if his 13th birthday happened shortly after coming into Bruces care.


Yeah but there is at least one comic that indicates that he was still only 12 when was Robin.

----------


## RedBird

> 10-12 I want to say?


I thought so too.

Does anyone remember his age pre crisis?

Cause speaking of Jasons age, I found this post on tumblr a while back from another confused reader which was interesting. It seemed to be implying that Bruce found post crisis Jason when he was 9 years old, which was either, later corrected to 12 OR that there was a time skip between Jason being found and becoming Robin, OR a time skip between Jason training as Robin and later arcs in his story, which doesn't seem to out of the question since this came right after the crisis event and I'm assuming DC wanted to get the backstory done and over with to get back to Batman and Robin tales.

https://jasontod.tumblr.com/post/187...rtant-how-long

Ima have to go back to read my copies to confirm this, cause it just brought a whole nother wave of confusion to me.






> I think that the 12yo bit for post-Crisis came from a letter to one of the writers.
> 
> I think the abusive part wasn't a thing until Lobdell's first run? Same as the drugs and Catherine. But maybe that part was mentioned before, in some batman comic.


The drugs were part of post crisis for Catherine. Jason becomes defensive about her death and implies she just 'got sick' but Bruce finds out she was a drug addict that had an overdose.

----------


## Aahz

The Age 9 comes afaik from some Batman Encyclopaedia, and I think the writer made a mistake.

No Idea about the letter columns, I usually don't read them.

----------


## Zaresh

> I thought so too.
> 
> Does anyone remember his age pre crisis?
> 
> Cause speaking of Jasons age, I found this post on tumblr a while back from another confused reader which was interesting. It seemed to be implying that Bruce found post crisis Jason when he was 9 years old, which was either, later corrected to 12 OR that there was a time skip between Jason being found and becoming Robin, OR a time skip between Jason training as Robin and later arcs in his story, which doesn't seem to out of the question since this came right after the crisis event and I'm assuming DC wanted to get the backstory done and over with to get back to Batman and Robin tales.
> 
> https://jasontod.tumblr.com/post/187...rtant-how-long
> 
> Ima have to go back to read my copies to confirm this, cause it just brought a whole nother wave of confusion to me.
> ...


Damn, I didn't remember that. It makes sense, I guess, for the 80s, but it didn't stuck in my memory pass the sick part.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Pre Crisis he was 12 in his first appearence (it is iirc one the first page he appears on).
> And by time Dick passed the mantle of Robin on to Jason he was allready 19.





> I think that the 12yo bit for post-Crisis came from a letter to one of the writers.
> I think the abusive part wasn't a thing until Lobdell's first run? Same as the drugs and Catherine. But maybe that part was mentioned before, in some batman comic.
> To be honest, I think that pre-Crisis Jason was a bit older than post-Crisis. Maybe more childlike, but a year or so older. It's a feel he gives me.


Copied for reference




> I thought so too.
> Does anyone remember his age pre crisis?
> Cause speaking of Jasons age, I found this post on tumblr a while back from another confused reader which was interesting. It seemed to be implying that Bruce found post crisis Jason when he was 9 years old, which was either, later corrected to 12 OR that there was a time skip between Jason being found and becoming Robin, OR a time skip between Jason training as Robin and later arcs in his story, which doesn't seem to out of the question since this came right after the crisis event and I'm assuming DC wanted to get the backstory done and over with to get back to Batman and Robin tales.
> https://jasontod.tumblr.com/post/187...rtant-how-long
> Ima have to go back to read my copies to confirm this, cause it just brought a whole nother wave of confusion to me.
> The drugs were part of post crisis for Catherine. Jason becomes defensive about her death and implies she just 'got sick' but Bruce finds out she was a drug addict that had an overdose.


Yes. That's what I remember. I think it was when Batman followed Jason into his apartment. I also remember Bruce looking up his parents on a... something... not internet maybe.
I just don't remember if she already died or not.
In New 52 she already died of an overdose before Jason met Batman, and then turned out it's a drug that's supposed to mimic death administered by Joker for the stupid part of his back story...

Man that link would've been easier to read if I remember which issue contains what




> The Age 9 comes afaik from some Batman Encyclopaedia, and I think the writer made a mistake.
> No Idea about the letter columns, I usually don't read them.
> Jason being 15 when he died, is never mentioned in the comics, and imo doesn't really work with the timeline. Since he was proably with Bruce for only 2 years.





> It could work, if his 13th birthday happened shortly after coming into Bruce’s care.


Copied for reference

Both Jason kinda looks too old to be 9 so I'm gonna say Pre Crisis is 12 and for Post Crisis follow that link that says he's a 5th grade drop out meaning he's at 10-11, spent 6 month to a year training so he's 12 when he started at Robin, spent 3 years as Robin and died at 15 according his death certificate. 

Rebirth continues from New 52 and makes him about 16. Even though he's drawn looking 12 in his New 52 zero issue origin. He's drawn more like 16 in the New 52 Secret Origin.

What's the name of his parents Pre Crisis? I'll look it up, but maybe someone remembers faster and can post it.

----------


## RedBird

Dexter Soy

_Crispy helmets_

----------


## Aahz

> Both Jason kinda looks too old to be 9 so I'm gonna say they're both 12.


In his first appearance he was at least in some panels really tiny and looked imo more like 9 year old than like a 12 year old.

For example here:

----------


## RedBird

> Yes. That's what I remember. I think it was when Batman followed Jason into his apartment. I also remember Bruce looking up his parents on a... something... not internet maybe.
> I just don't remember if she already died or not.
> In New 52 she already died of an overdose before Jason met Batman, and then turned out it's a drug that's supposed to mimic death administered by Joker for the stupid part of his back story...


Yeah she was already dead in the post crisis origin, at least within 6 months of when Bruce found Jason.




Issue #409 page 5. 
(and I think, Page 82 in the Second Chances graphic novel, at least according to the actual print pages, not the comixology page browser which is always one off.)

----------


## RedBird

> In his first appearance he was at least in some panels really tiny and looked imo more like 9 year old than like a 12 year old.
> 
> For example here:


Yeah, I'm honestly not putting the 9 year old theory past me just yet, cause yeah, he looks REALLY young and small.

(Plus, like I said, considering this was DC relaying some of their stories and playing catch up to where they were with Jasons Robin tenure, I don't think the time skip theory is too much of a stretch.)

----------


## Restingvoice

Yeah, I remember his size and decided to put him at 10 because the link that includes other panels mentioned he's a 5th-grade dropout. 

Joseph and Trina Todd, and Pre Crisis Jason was in junior high when he's Robin. 

8699790.jpg

You know it's funny how Pre Crisis Jason's parents were murdered by Killer Croc but in New 52 onwards they're friends through Roy.

----------


## Jackalope89

One has to remember with his post-Crisis origins, he was malnourished for an undisclosed amount of time. So him being small for his age (about 12) fits.

----------


## Zaresh

> Copied for reference
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. That's what I remember. I think it was when Batman followed Jason into his apartment. I also remember Bruce looking up his parents on a... something... not internet maybe.
> I just don't remember if she already died or not.
> In New 52 she already died of an overdose before Jason met Batman, and then turned out it's a drug that's supposed to mimic death administered by Joker for the stupid part of his back story...
> 
> Man that link would've been easier to read if I remember which issue contains what
> ...


Catherine and Joseph, iirc.

EDIT: geez, I should refresh my screem more often. Sorry for being too late.

EDIT: for what is worth, I don't think anyone who is 12 or 14 would be that underweight unless he was malnourished for years and years.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Well, this was unexpected. From the YOTV: Joker

----------


## RedBird

> Well, this was unexpected. From the YOTV: Joker


Yeah, it's got a weirdly bittersweet ending too *spoilers:*
what with the Robin guy and his mother getting to walk away from the ordeal.
*end of spoilers*

Also it's written by John Carpenter if that peaks anyones interest.

----------


## Zaresh

> Yeah, it's got a weirdly bittersweet ending too what with the Robin guy and his mother getting to walk away from the ordeal.
> 
> Also it's written by John Carpenter if that peaks anyones interest.


It peaks mine a bit (what a surprise).
He was interested in writing some Batman, I think? That could be, heh, fun, depending on which story he want to tell.

----------


## RedBird

> It peaks mine a bit (what a surprise).
> He was interested in writing some Batman, I think? That could be, heh, fun, depending on which story he want to tell.


It's another twisted Joker story, but there's almost a weird, dare I say, masochistic element to Joker in the story? One that may border a little too much into uncomfortable territory for some?

spoilers but
*spoilers:*
Joker drags this arkham patient, Jeremy around, dresses them both up as Batman and Robin (Joker as Bats, the guy Jeremy as Robin) whilst proclaiming that he is making things 'kinkier', then when the Robin guy finds that Joker has his mother tied up, threatening her, he starts choking the Joker, whereupon the Joker takes off the Batman mask he was wearing, placing it on the would be Robins face to emulate Batman choking him and gasps, 'harder' to the guy, which freaks the Robin guy out and then the pages Dark posted which show Joker beating the Robin guy half to death are what proceed.

He basically constructs a scenario to fulfill some kind of fantasy of Batman killing/choking him.
*end of spoilers*


Also, sorry for getting off topic there.

----------


## RedBird

spaceboykenny

----------


## RedBird

JayKorre

_Inktober Day 4: Freeze!_

----------


## RedBird

dc_ypyp

----------


## Zaresh

> It's another twisted Joker story, but there's almost a weird, dare I say, masochistic element to Joker in the story? One that may border a little too much into uncomfortable territory for some?
> 
> spoilers but
> *spoilers:*
> Joker drags this arkham patient, Jeremy around, dresses them both up as Batman and Robin (Joker as Bats, the guy Jeremy as Robin) whilst proclaiming that he is making things 'kinkier', then when the Robin guy finds that Joker has his mother tied up, threatening her, he starts choking the Joker, whereupon the Joker takes off the Batman mask he was wearing, placing it on the would be Robins face to emulate Batman choking him and gasps, _'harder'_ to the guy, which freaks the Robin guy out and then the pages Dark posted which show Joker beating the Robin guy half to death are what proceed.
> 
> He basically constructs a scenario to fulfill some kind of fantasy of Batman killing/choking him.
> *end of spoilers*
> 
> ...


Yeah, seems right his alley.
The end too, I guess.

I would prefer cheap fun Carpenter instead of serious horror Carpenter, but I guess I'll give it a look, knowing what I'm going to read beforehand.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> It's another twisted Joker story, but there's almost a weird, dare I say, masochistic element to Joker in the story? One that may border a little too much into uncomfortable territory for some?
> 
> spoilers but
> *spoilers:*
> Joker drags this arkham patient, Jeremy around, dresses them both up as Batman and Robin (Joker as Bats, the guy Jeremy as Robin) whilst proclaiming that he is making things 'kinkier', then when the Robin guy finds that Joker has his mother tied up, threatening her, he starts choking the Joker, whereupon the Joker takes off the Batman mask he was wearing, placing it on the would be Robins face to emulate Batman choking him and gasps, _'harder'_ to the guy, which freaks the Robin guy out and then the pages Dark posted which show Joker beating the Robin guy half to death are what proceed.
> 
> He basically constructs a scenario to fulfill some kind of fantasy of Batman killing/choking him.
> *end of spoilers*
> 
> ...


I found it to be very similar to Azzarello's Joker, just leaning a bit more into the psychological horror.

----------


## RedBird

> I found it to be very similar to Azzarello's Joker, just leaning a bit more into the psychological horror.


You mean his 2008 graphic novel titled 'Joker' yeah? I've had that one in my comixology 'to buy' pile since forever, would you recommend it?

----------


## Zaresh

God bless the Internet, that allows you to access almost everything at any given time.

Well, that was a pretty good one-shot.

*spoilers:*

I wasn't expecting a lot, but it was very good. A lot for it going on in foreground and background, a pretty interesting handle of certain themes, specifically how mental health* is treated (using the poing of view of the blond guy who is not-sane*). It's a comic about how mental health problems can mess you up, your view of reality, your whole life and your family; and how it doesn't have to have a happy, easy way of getting better, or having a happy end (but some things can be fixed or get a better). But also, I found it interesting that, in contrast, it doesn't romanticise Joker, at all, and doesn't draw him as insane*. He knows very when he's doing, and does so viciously. He's cruel, and he knows very well how cruel and twisted are his actions. Which is how Joker is nowadays in the comics, as far as I can see.

I also saw some light parallels with Jason, besides the obvious one with the beating and the mother. I wonder if it was intentional.

*end of spoilers*

In the end, I don't think it was that much serious horror. It was brutally violent, and heavy on certain points. But it wasn't all serious and the most heavy part was the dealing with the main character's problems, in my opinion.

I wouldn't mind more like this, to be honest.

And the art was very, very good.
And with this, I finish with my part in this off topic XD

----------


## RedBird

> God bless the Internet, that allows you to access almost everything at any given time.
> 
> Well, that was a pretty good one-shot.
> 
> *spoilers:*
> 
> I wasn't expecting a lot, but it was very good. A lot for it going on in foreground and background, a pretty interesting handle of certain themes, specifically how mental illness is treated (using the poing of view of the blond guy who is ill). It's a comic about how mental illness can mess you up, your view of reality, your whole life and your family; and how it doesn't have to have a happy, easy way of getting better, or having a happy end (but some things can be fixed or get a better). But also, I found it interesting that, in contrast, it doesn't romanticise Joker, at all, and doesn't draw him as ill, at all. He knows very when he's doing, and does so viciously. He's cruel, and he knows very well how cruel and twisted are his actions. Which is how Joker is nowadays in the comics, as far as I can see.
> 
> I also saw some light parallels with Jason, besides the obvious one with the beating and the mother. I wonder if it was intentional.
> ...


Sorry to keep it going XD but *spoilers:*
I totally agree with your point about it not displaying the Joker in any sort of romanticized light yet his behavior and sick humor still feels true to the character. The story displaying his victim as an individual suffering with mental illness rather than the Joker was also a good point. Outside of some else worlds, I'm not a fan of specifically the Jokers violence and behavior being diluted under the guise of mental illness, it always come across as tasteless to me. I've always preferred the 'sane' take on the Joker, which is strongly highlighted here.

Also I thought I noticed some parallels as well, with Jeremys constant self doubt, self loathing, the fathers violence too, and with Jeremy forgiving his mother who (figuratively at least) abandoned him. Probably a coincidence but still interesting.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Zaresh

Yeah, agreed to a T with your post.

Also, this story made me wonder if both writers are knowledgeable enough about Jason to actually have made those parallels intentionally. If it wasn't just me, it has to be intentional, right? I noticed another a bit less subtle:
*spoilers:*
The moment Jeremy starts to doubt Joker and stops him is the moment the Joker stops playing pals with him and  starts to act crude and violent towards him—regardless of the Joker going against his mother before that point, probably. Kind of how Batman works with Jason. Or, well, reversed.
*end of spoilers*

EDIT: or, well, maybe we see those things because we know about him and look for similarities.

I don't know. This story really got me caught.
And it even made me laugh once (because it was fun at times*, too).

----------


## RedBird

> EDIT: or, well, maybe we see those things because we know about him and look for similarities.


Maybe, but whether intentional or not, it still made for an interesting read.




> And it even made me laugh once (because it was fun at times*, too).


Yeah *spoilers:*
the dog with the gun thing actually got me.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## RedBird

I know this kinda random but, it's been a while and I'm curious if there's been any changes to peoples thoughts on rhato regarding the current status of Willis Todd?

Cause, honestly I'm still not convinced that he has actually appeared in the present day.

We've had two characters with claims to be Jasons father yet neither make total sense and they kinda contradict each other.

In the flashback we see Willis was strapped to that machine (the one used in the experiment) with two other people (me thinks that was Solitary and James) and I reckon to some extent they all merged identities or at least memories, and to some extent even *physicality. (*It's comics)

I'm theorizing Artemis killed the OG Willis, she mentions in issue #25 to Jason, 'Someday you'll understand how much I owe you. The mistakes I made. How much you suffered because of me.'

James has the Batarang scar, sure, but no one outside of his own perception knows him as Willis Todd, where as Solitary is the one that confronts Ma Gunn who outright calls him Willis, to which I should note that he is surprised by and questions how she could have known, kinda adding to my theory that he doesn't look like Willis all that much since he isn't the OG, but like James he also has Willis's memories/identity and they both at least believe themselves with enough conviction to be Willis Todd, father of Jason Todd. Also I find it quite strange that Jason himself doesn't recognize his father's face in either of these men, again, just another point to my theory.

Thoughts? Alternate theories?

----------


## Jackalope89

> I know this kinda random but, it's been a while and I'm curious if there's been any changes to peoples thoughts on rhato regarding the current status of Willis Todd?
> 
> Cause, honestly I'm still not convinced that he has actually appeared in the present day.
> 
> We've had two characters with claims to be Jasons father yet neither make total sense and they kinda contradict each other.
> 
> In the flashback we see Willis was strapped to that machine (the one used in the experiment) with two other people (me thinks that was Solitary and James) and I reckon to some extent they all merged identities or at least memories, and to some extent even *physicality. (*It's comics)
> 
> I'm theorizing Artemis killed the OG Willis, she mentions in issue #25 to Jason, 'Someday you'll understand how much I owe you. The mistakes I made. How much you suffered because of me.'
> ...


Editorial screwed with the storytelling would be my guess.

----------


## RedBird

> Editorial screwed with the storytelling would be my guess.


LOL okay you win XD

----------


## Arsenal

> In the flashback we see Willis was strapped to that machine (the one used in the experiment) with two other people (me thinks that was Solitary and James) and I reckon to some extent they all merged identities or at least memories, and to some extent even *physicality. (*It's comics


It's probably gonna end up being this because somewhere along the way:



> Editorial screwed with the storytelling would be my guess.


I don't know what the endgame of the Willis Todd Saga will be. It's possible that there currently isn't one. All I do know is that Jason either needs to go all in on the "found family" thing or at least lean on the important women in his life some more because his luck with father figures/male role models is absolute shit.

----------


## Zaresh

> I know this kinda random but, it's been a while and I'm curious if there's been any changes to peoples thoughts on rhato regarding the current status of Willis Todd?
> 
> Cause, honestly I'm still not convinced that he has actually appeared in the present day.
> 
> We've had two characters with claims to be Jasons father yet neither make total sense and they kinda contradict each other.
> 
> In the flashback we see Willis was strapped to that machine (the one used in the experiment) with two other people (me thinks that was Solitary and James) and I reckon to some extent they all merged identities or at least memories, and to some extent even *physicality. (*It's comics)
> 
> I'm theorizing Artemis killed the OG Willis, she mentions in issue #25 to Jason, 'Someday you'll understand how much I owe you. The mistakes I made. How much you suffered because of me.'
> ...


I like yours.
For me, the weirdest part is that Jason definitely didn't thought any of them both was Willis, despite the clues us readers have to support both of them. I mean: at this point at least (it doesn't really matter what the original plan was at this point), we know that Ma could tell that, whoever she met, he was Willis; and that Willis doesn't think he's going to be recognised by the people who knew him. Unlike what it seemed with Solitary in Hierve el Agua.

Then, we know that James has his scar, or something that could be a scar (but could be a tatoo, too) and he's kind of devoted to Jason; but then again, Jason doesn't recognize him, and it doesn't look like James is hoping or wary of him doing at all. he doesn't seem to have powers, but where did he find his Wingman suit? Could be that he has the same set of powers, or a similar one.

And then there's the guy who visits Ma, that at the time was drawn kind of like Solitary, but not exactly the same because that was, as far as I recall, the only time he was drawn by Soy, and so could be easily retconned as not sharing the same looks (being two different characters). Ma seems to have no doubt it's him. It this one was actually Solitary and Ma was fooled, then Jason has to have some proof that his father was dead or wasn't him—that we're not aware of— to dismiss the possibility so easily.

And Artemis seems to feel guilty about it. So one would think that she killed the man she was meant to, regardless of if it was Jason's dad or not.

I guess it could be that Jason knows something we know, that Ma was fooled and that Solitary was the one who visited her, too.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> You mean his 2008 graphic novel titled 'Joker' yeah? I've had that one in my comixology 'to buy' pile since forever, would you recommend it?


If you haven't burned out from the Joker yet, then yes, is a pretty good read.

----------


## Restingvoice

> It's another twisted Joker story, but there's almost a weird, dare I say, masochistic element to Joker in the story? One that may border a little too much into uncomfortable territory for some?
> spoilers but
> *spoilers:*
> Joker drags this arkham patient, Jeremy around, dresses them both up as Batman and Robin (Joker as Bats, the guy Jeremy as Robin) whilst proclaiming that he is making things 'kinkier', then when the Robin guy finds that Joker has his mother tied up, threatening her, he starts choking the Joker, whereupon the Joker takes off the Batman mask he was wearing, placing it on the would be Robins face to emulate Batman choking him and gasps, 'harder' to the guy, which freaks the Robin guy out and then the pages Dark posted which show Joker beating the Robin guy half to death are what proceed.
> He basically constructs a scenario to fulfill some kind of fantasy of Batman killing/choking him.
> *end of spoilers*
> Also, sorry for getting off topic there.


Joker is that fangirl/boy who follow celebrity on instagram/twitter and comment "choke me"




> Catherine and Joseph, iirc.
> EDIT: for what is worth, I don't think anyone who is 12 or 14 would be that underweight unless he was malnourished for years and years.


Yeah and he can throw punches and calls him a boob

I haven't followed the current events so I'm gonna continue my line of flashback questioning.
Okay so... how long was Jason with Ma Gunn? Both in Post Crisis and Rebirth?

----------


## Zaresh

> Joker is that fangirl/boy who follow celebrity on instagram/twitter and comment "choke me"
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah and he can throw punches and calls him a boob
> 
> I haven't followed the current events so I'm gonna continue my line of flashback questioning.
> Okay so... how long was Jason with Ma Gunn? Both in Post Crisis and Rebirth?


I went back and read to be sure.
Post-Crisis origin, he was with her one night and one day. In Rebirth, I think it's implied by the letters that he was there a few months at least.

----------


## Restingvoice

> I went back and read to be sure.
> Post-Crisis origin, he was with her one night and one day. In Rebirth, I think it's implied by the letters that he was there a few months at least.


That's a really long time. Guess Ma Gunn wasn't as obvious in Rebirth?

----------


## Zaresh

> That's a really long time. Guess Ma Gunn wasn't as obvious in Rebirth?


¯\_(ツ)_/¯ could be. It doesn't look like Jason went to Batman spilling the beans, more like he helped him because the other kids were going to die or be maimed.

----------


## RedBird

> I went back and read to be sure.
> Post-Crisis origin, he was with her one night and one day. In Rebirth, I think it's implied by the letters that he was there a few months at least.


Hmm but doesn't Willis's relation to Ma Gunn kinda negate that time frame though? She claimed to have kept parents letters from the kids sure, but Jasons a special case. Where else would Willis send letters but to Ma Gunn, regardless of whether or not Jason was living there at her school?

----------


## RedBird

> If you haven't burned out from the Joker yet, then yes, is a pretty good read.


Good to know, thanks for the rec  :Smile:

----------


## RedBird

> And then there's the guy who visits Ma, that at the time was drawn kind of like Solitary, but not exactly the same because that was, as far as I recall, the only time he was drawn by Soy, and so could be easily retconned as not sharing the same looks (being two different characters). Ma seems to have no doubt it's him. It this one was actually Solitary and Ma was fooled, then Jason has to have some proof that his father was dead or wasn't him—that we're not aware of— to dismiss the possibility so easily.


Really? I thought it was pretty clear that it was Solitary, same suit with three faces in motion.

----------


## Zaresh

> Hmm but doesn't Willis's relation to Ma Gunn kinda negate that time frame though? She claimed to have kept parents letters from the kids sure, but Jasons a special case. Where else would Willis send letters but to Ma Gunn, regardless of whether or not Jason was living there at her school?


Well, there is a flashback in the first issue that implies that Jason was there long enough for think of the place as a sort of "home", even if he was there for a short time.

I'm guessing that Willis wasn't aware of Catherine dying untill he was informed of the housing with Ma. Jason wasn't aware of their shared blood (apparently. We really never get to know what he thinks. He's an unreliable narrator because he definitely hides information besides other things), so it may be that Willis wasn't either. I'm going to guess, again, that Willis was certified dead while Jason was still with her.

I need to read the issue with the letters again. Maybe there are some other bits of info there.

----------


## Zaresh

> Really? I thought it was pretty clear that it was Solitary, same suit with three faces in motion.


I know, but, you know, technically... Could be explained by the art being diferent itself, and them having lookalike set of powers.

It's pushing it quite a bit, but...

----------


## Restingvoice

Did New 52 Willis die? I think I remember Jason mentioned that Willis died in prison, and the one they fought for in Death of The Family is a body double.

The Rebirth Willis is a different character than New 52, right, not just physically different. He takes Jason to the Circus, I can't see New 52 Willis doing that.

----------


## Zaresh

> Did New 52 Willis die? I think I remember Jason mentioned that Willis died in prison, and the one they fought for in Death of The Family is a body double.
> 
> The Rebirth Willis is a different character than New 52, right, not just physically different. He takes Jason to the Circus, I can't see New 52 Willis doing that.


Mmmmm... I don't know.

One thing doesn't negate or anulate the other. One can be a very awful parent and still care at times or have small good moments and gestures for your kids. Or even care and love your kids but still be awful for them, toxic, even destroy them, unfortunately.

I mean, most of the stuff from new 52 carries on to Rebirth, and his father doesn't seem to have changed a lot (the story with the Joker is retconned, probably. And how Jason was given birth).

I don't know. Maybe others know better.

----------


## RedBird

> Mmmmm... I don't know.
> 
> One thing doesn't negate or anulate the other. One can be a very awful parent and still care at times or have small good moments and gestures for your kids. Or even care and love your kids but still be awful for them, toxic, even destroy them, unfortunately.
> 
> I mean, most of the stuff from new 52 carries on to Rebirth, and his father doesn't seem to have changed a lot (the story with the Joker is retconned, probably. And how Jason was given birth).
> 
> I don't know. Maybe others know better.



Nah that all sounds that about it, all through out New52 Jason _believed_ that his father died in prison, it's just that in Rebirth we find out that he was instead recruited to some kind of shady experimental lab (which probably then claimed Willis had died in prison to cover up the shady project).

----------


## RedBird

Also I caught this whilst going back and forth between Rebirth and Post Crisis intro today





Red Hood and the Outlaws Rebirth issue #1




Batman issue #409

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Did New 52 Willis die? I think I remember Jason mentioned that Willis died in prison, and the one they fought for in Death of The Family is a body double.
> 
> The Rebirth Willis is a different character than New 52, right, not just physically different. He takes Jason to the Circus, I can't see New 52 Willis doing that.


I don't know why you'd think that. The simple fact that the batarang shaped scar is a plot point is proof enough that N52 Willis and Rebirth are one and the same. the only thing is happening is Lobdell expanding his characterization.

----------


## Restingvoice

> I don't know why you'd think that. The simple fact that the batarang shaped scar is a plot point is proof enough that N52 Willis and Rebirth are one and the same. the only thing is happening is Lobdell expanding his characterization.


Well, first of all, they're physically completely different including in flashback, and during the New 52 back story, I don't remember he did anything good to Jason. 

When it's shown at the end of mob boss Jason arc, I just thought it's funny that Willis has a batman tattoo, I thought he's showing his support for Jason that way. I didn't think that it's supposed to be the same tattoo he got in the zero issue, because by that point, looking at how he looks and act I already consider him a different person.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Artists have never been consistent when drawing Jason's parents, Catherine looks different on pretty much every appearance with the only consistent element being her red hair. Now, issue zero didn't show Willis doing anything good but it never showed him doing anything bad either, the worst thing that it showed was arguing with Catherine. And it did make a point of showing that Willis was proud of Jason, something that has been a constant for him through his appearances. 

And no, is not a tattoo, is a scar.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

DC Universe has put another poll asking if Jason lives or Dies, seemingly related to Titans' cliffhanger. 

https://www.dcuniverse.com/news/poll...d-live-or-die/

As always, the poll is US only, but so far Lives is winning.

----------


## RedBird

> Artists have never been consistent when drawing Jason's parents, Catherine looks different on pretty much every appearance with the *only consistent element being her red hair.*


Heck even that wasn't consistent....





New52 Red Hood and the Outlaws #25




The only thing that has changed for Willis was that he assisted Catherine in birthing Jason in their bat tub as opposed to the hospital birth in issue #0.

All in all I agree, these new elements of Willis, such as him taking Jason to the circus and having some desire to provide an income are additions to his character rather than a retcon. Lobdell still displayed him as an abusive father/man regardless of any 'good intentions' and I don't think these actions negate one another.

----------


## Zaresh

> DC Universe has put another poll asking if Jason lives or Dies, seemingly related to Titans' cliffhanger. 
> 
> https://www.dcuniverse.com/news/poll...d-live-or-die/
> 
> As always, the poll is US only, but so far Lives is winning.


I cannot vote, so, I'm happy that people doesn't want to kill him, again ^______^.

----------


## RedBird

> DC Universe has put another poll asking if Jason lives or Dies, seemingly related to Titans' cliffhanger. 
> 
> https://www.dcuniverse.com/news/poll...d-live-or-die/
> 
> As always, the poll is US only, but so far Lives is winning.


Again? Jeez Louise

Thanks for the update though, I can't access the site myself.




> I cannot vote, so, I'm happy that people doesn't want to kill him, again ^______^.


That is nice, I mean, I'm sure it's not helped by the people who also want 'Red Hood' to show up in Titans and are happy to off Robin early to get there (it's the most frequent comments I see surrounding Jasons character). What happened to anticipation here folks? Ya gotta build up relationships before ya break em down XD.

Regardless though I don't know why people (who want that) are so convinced that Titans will even have a 'Red Hood' arc if Jason dies. This is Titans, not Batman, there's like several other characters with their own story lines here to adapt.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> New52 Red Hood and the Outlaws #25


In my defense, I completely wiped out Tynion's run from my memory.

----------


## Arsenal

It’s pretty close at the moment but lives is still beating dies by 200ish votes

----------


## RedBird

> In my defense, I completely wiped out Tynion's run from my memory.


That's fair  :Stick Out Tongue: 

No judgement, it was more in support of the argument that the visual/artistic depiction of Willis and Catherine between new52 and rebirth was not an intentional differentiation to separate continuity, just different artists not paying attention.

----------


## Pohzee

This has actually been up like a week. The fact that it took anyone this long to notice says something about DCU  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Jackalope89

Other than the All-Blades and his smartass-ery, has Jason shown any other meta abilities?

----------


## Zaresh

> Other than the All-Blades and his smartass-ery, has Jason shown any other meta abilities?


Being really, really, really hard to kill counts? Because we've already speculated about that one, even if it's just probably to be expected that he will survive anything without a reason behind because... narrative reasons.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

More from Messina's Instagram

70619935_994011657602371_8774126394646906106_n.jpg
70921966_210392423314885_4483284629969578822_n.jpg

----------


## Arsenal

That one with Biz & Artemis looks great. I saw that floating around awhile ago but couldn’t find a source so didn’t know if it was legit.

----------


## Sergard

voidmash




@nuu__t





BigBadToyStore (artwork by Mohammad Hague)

_In Stock - #DCComics Q-Master #Batman Family BBTS Shared Exclusive Artist's Signature Edition Diorama_

----------


## Zaresh

Apparently, there's another poll in the official Twitter account: https://twitter.com/TheDCUniverse/st...55213933432832

----------


## Aahz

> Other than the All-Blades and his smartass-ery, has Jason shown any other meta abilities?


He could do some mystical punch to depower members of the Untitled.

----------


## Arsenal

Given the circumstances of the particular incident, I feel like everything immediately after Jason waking up in his coffin should fall into the “basically meta” category.

----------


## RedBird

02png

----------


## Sergard

onipilot




Nazrud

----------


## RedBird

> Apparently, there's another poll in the official Twitter account: https://twitter.com/TheDCUniverse/st...55213933432832


LOL Just like I said before, the Red Hood fans keep skewing it. 
Based on comments, consensus is either he lives, or he dies with alot of 'he dies' comments insisting that they want Red Hood. 

Again, I don't know what makes them think they will _definitely_ do a Red Hood arc even IF he dies. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

----------


## Sergard

333leaves






@ikaliu_tw





lindatart

----------


## Jackalope89

> LOL Just like I said before, the Red Hood fans keep skewing it. 
> Based on comments, consensus is either he lives, or he dies with alot of 'he dies' comments insisting that they want Red Hood. 
> 
> Again, I don't know what makes them think they will _definitely_ do a Red Hood arc even IF he dies. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Considering Red Hood was more about getting back at Bruce and Joker, I just don't know how much of an impact it would have. Plus, we really haven't gotten much of Jason's life before he became Robin in the show.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Well, within the context of the show changing Jason's vendetta so is against Dick and Slade would work as motivation for Red Hood.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Also I caught this whilst going back and forth between Rebirth and Post Crisis intro today
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Red Hood and the Outlaws Rebirth issue #1
> 
> 
> ...


Ooh I love that kinda thing




> Artists have never been consistent when drawing Jason's parents, Catherine looks different on pretty much every appearance with the only consistent element being her red hair. Now, issue zero didn't show Willis doing anything good but it never showed him doing anything bad either, the worst thing that it showed was arguing with Catherine. And it did make a point of showing that Willis was proud of Jason, something that has been a constant for him through his appearances. 
> 
> And no, is not a tattoo, is a scar.


I'm counting him neglecting Catherine so that Jason had to take care of her as a toddler, then involving him with his crime as bad. Not directly I guess. Not hitting him or something. He did it with the type of thinking that Jason can help him. 

I think I see what you mean. He's not bad to Jason in his mind, but he has a skewed idea of what to teach a child. 

Didn't he make it a tattoo? He got the scar, proud of it, then went to the tattoo parlor with Jason to make it an actual tattoo? In New 52 #0




> https://jasontod.tumblr.com/post/187...rtant-how-long


Age and Timeline Recap with that as reference

Post Crisis backstory - 5th grade drop out
Post Crisis first meeting - 10-11?
Post Crisis Ma Gunn - 1 day 
Rebirth Ma Gunn - a few months
Robin Training - 6 months
Pre Crisis debut - 12
Robin Debut - 12? 
Zero Year - 12?
Death Certificate - 15
New 52/Rebirth origin - 16?
New 52 Red Hood - 19?

There's a panel I saw where Cass stood in front of his grave and Bruce said he'd be Cass' age if he grew up. The conclusion was he's 17 from Cass' age. Review?
I don't remember where I got New 52 16 and 19 from, I think one of them is subtracting the determined age from the 5-year timeline but that was a long time ago, I don't even remember the 5-year timeline. Let me review it again.

6 years ago - Batman - Zero Year - 12
5 years ago - Dick - Justice League - Mother - Babs unofficial - 13
4 years ago - Babs official - 14
3 years ago - Jason - Babs retired - Dick and Babs went to college - 16
2 years ago - Tim - 17
1 year ago - Damian - DickBats and DamiRobin - 18
New 52 start - 19

Yeah, I remember thinking that in the Zero Year tie-in issue he shouldn't look that big. The backup one in Batman #25 where he robbed a mini-mart fits better, and now that I remember that, I remember thinking Tim shouldn't be that big in the zero year backup in Batman #25.

----------


## RedBird

> I'm counting him neglecting Catherine so that Jason had to take care of her as a toddler, then involving him with his crime as bad. Not directly I guess. Not hitting him or something. He did it with the type of thinking that Jason can help him. 
> 
> I think I see what you mean. *He's not bad to Jason in his mind, but he has a skewed idea of what to teach a child.*


I think it's a case of 'every one is the hero in their own story', thus far, the day in the circus is the only fond memory both Jason and Willis can recall, beyond that there's no other example of Willis having any positive impact in Jasons life.

For some more reference by the way, of Willis's actions, beyond the fact that Jason claims Willis wasn't home often and that when he was, he would either have to tag along and be involved in crime OR have to drag his drunk dad to bed. RHATO #0

Here are a couple examples I could find of Willis displaying abusive behavior.



In _Red Hood/Arsenal #11_, Jason describes Willis beating Catherine for 'wasting money'.





And in _New52 Red Hood and the Outlaws #18_, Jason describes his trouble sleeping due to fears of his mother dying, or of fear that his father would follow through with his threat to shoot both Jason and his mother. Jason also mentions the discomfort of sleeping on bruises which could also be implying that he was physically abused whilst in his household, the source of the bruises is vague but you can certainly read into that as being Willis' doing.

----------


## Aahz

> There's a panel I saw where Cass stood in front of his grave and Bruce said he'd be Cass' age if he grew up. The conclusion was he's 17 from Cass' age. Review?


IIRC that scene took place on Jasons 18th Birthday.

----------


## Sergard

inkydandy





@050703_





@nuu__t

----------


## Sergard

I wonder if the bat-shaped domino mask is Rocafort's idea of an easter egg - or if it's more of a symbol that Jason is starting to forgive Bruce for his part in the HiC massacre (and maybe the bad treatment in Event Leviathan).

----------


## Jackalope89

> I wonder if the bat-shaped domino mask is Rocafort's idea of an easter egg - or if it's more of a symbol that Jason is starting to forgive Bruce for his part in the HiC massacre (and maybe the bad treatment in Event Leviathan).


Forget about issue 25? Bruce beat the crap out of Jason (was a month before he could really move around) for, as it turns out, not shooting Penguin. Jason asked for Bruce to trust him, Bruce's actions spoke much more loudly than his words. And can't forget Bruce exiling him from Gotham.

----------


## Sergard

GHeroes Europe


_Time for another reveal for our 1/6 DC - Rebirth line. The concept artist is Rafa Sandoval and will be sculpt by Paul Tan.

#XMStudios #XMStudiosGH #DC #RedHood_

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I wonder if the bat-shaped domino mask is Rocafort's idea of an easter egg - or if it's more of a symbol that Jason is starting to forgive Bruce for his part in the HiC massacre (and maybe the bad treatment in Event Leviathan).


Probably just Rocafort putting his personal style.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> GHeroes Europe
> 
> 
> _Time for another reveal for our 1/6 DC - Rebirth line. The concept artist is Rafa Sandoval and will be sculpt by Paul Tan.
> 
> #XMStudios #XMStudiosGH #DC #RedHood_


It looks Amazing but boy, $450 EUR is way, way too much.

----------


## RedBird

Holy moly I need that statue
Better start saving XD

----------


## Zaresh

> Holy moly I need that statue
> Better start saving XD


Imagine breaking it when it falls because you are dusting your shelves.

I would cry blood.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I looked closely at their site, it seems like they only ship within Europe, so anyone in the US will also need to pay a middle man. What is with Jason getting exclusive and ridiculously expensive merchandise?

----------


## Aahz

> It looks Amazing but boy, $450 EUR is way, way too much.


Wow they have statues in their shop that are far more expensive, are their really people that are willing to pay that much for merch ?

----------


## Restingvoice

> I think it's a case of 'every one is the hero in their own story', thus far, the day in the circus is the only fond memory both Jason and Willis can recall, beyond that there's no other example of Willis having any positive impact in Jasons life.
> 
> For some more reference by the way, of Willis's actions, beyond the fact that Jason claims Willis wasn't home often and that when he was, he would either have to tag along and be involved in crime OR have to drag his drunk dad to bed. RHATO #0
> 
> Here are a couple examples I could find of Willis displaying abusive behavior.
> 
> 
> 
> In _Red Hood/Arsenal #11_, Jason describes Willis beating Catherine for 'wasting money'.
> ...


Oh yeah forgot about that




> IIRC that scene took place on Jasons 18th Birthday.


Then Cass would be 18 and Tim would be 17... but I don't know enough about Tim timeline to confirm

----------


## Aahz

> Then Cass would be 18 and Tim would be 17... but I don't know enough about Tim timeline to confirm


No Tim had his 16t Birthday around that time.

----------


## Sergard

> I looked closely at their site, it seems like they only ship within Europe, so anyone in the US will also need to pay a middle man. What is with Jason getting exclusive and ridiculously expensive merchandise?


GHeroes Europe is only the European retailer for XM Studios. There are other retailers. None of them is based in the US but maybe some of them ship to the US.





> Wow they have statues in their shop that are far more expensive, are their really people that are willing to pay that much for merch ?


I can't blame figure collectors for getting tempted, but yes, some of the stuff is really, really expensive. But then those figures are limited, have crazy details and weigh a few kilos.
I mean, just look at some of their stuff:

----------


## Sergard

@thefrikist





@codeine-j (from 2015)





@codeine-j (from 2017)

----------


## Zaresh

Those figures are awesome. Wow.

Brief uptade in Titans.

So after episode 3, the second season is getting better. Episode 5 was nice, and the latest one, the one about Conner*, was good. I like how they're using Conner: he's a child, he's a phenomenon, does very weird things, has temper issues. He's a mess. He's a childlike and deadly mess, but a mess with a sweet* heart.

I like that it's looking like Jason is going to play the foil for him, apparently.. Well, it's more like a hope. It could end being very much in the way that comic Jason is with Bizarro, even. And it gives me some hope that they're not going to kill Jason in the season finale.

And I'm starting to see why they made Hank being some youth counsellor: for Jason and Conner, when Dick and Kori would be the ones for Rose and Rachel. And Donna for the the adults. Gar is good by himself, I guess. They're working a dynamic between different characters in the team.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Those figures are awesome. Wow.
> 
> Brief uptade in Titans.
> 
> So after episode 3, the second season is getting better. Episode 5 was nice, and the latest one, the one about Conned, was good. I like how they're using Conner: he's a child, he's a phenomenon, does very weird things, has temper issues. He's a mess. He's a childlike and deadly mess, but a mess with a good heart.
> 
> I like that it's looking like Jason is going to play the foil for him, apparently.. Well, it's more like a hope. It could end being very much in the way that comic Jason is with Bizarro, even. And it gives me some hope that they're not going to kill Jason in the season finale.
> 
> And I'm starting to see why they made Hank being some youth counsellor: for Jason and Conner, when Dick and Kori would be the ones for Rose and Rachel. And Donna for the the adults. Gar is good by himself, I guess. They're working a dynamic between different characters in the team.


Tim fans probably aren't going to be excited, but yeah. Not the first time, since Young Justice had Conner with Dick over Tim (and knew Jason before Tim by default). 

Jason bouncing off of Conner looks to be interesting. And since Conner saved his life, I think Jason is going to be a lot less confrontational with him over others. Just need to save his life. And rescue poor puppy Krypto.

----------


## Sergard

I've only seen screenshots and a little clip on YouTube.
But since Conner Kent is my favorite member of the Super family and Jason is my favorite member of the Bat family, I'm obviously very biased and happy that those two share some scenes.
Although I still don't understand why Conner appears in Titans in the first place. Conner Kent is a character that I associate with Tim Drake and not with Dick Grayson. (I'm also confused by the Young Justice cartoon regarding that aspect.)

----------


## dietrich

My guess is YJ and Titans used Conner since they needed a Super sidekick and that's Conner. Like a Robin equivalent and that's not really Kara.

----------


## Sergard

Dexter Soy


_Red Hood sketch today @ACEcomiccon
 #ACEComicConMidwest_

----------


## Sergard

JJMK

_Red hood -  Classic Korean style_

----------


## Sergard

billyvi





rik

_I made the cloud to resemble angel wings, hope I succeed??_




rik

----------


## Zaresh

> Tim fans probably aren't going to be excited, but yeah. Not the first time, since Young Justice had Conner with Dick over Tim (and knew Jason before Tim by default). 
> 
> Jason bouncing off of Conner looks to be interesting. And since Conner saved his life, I think Jason is going to be a lot less confrontational with him over others. Just need to save his life. And rescue poor puppy Krypto.


He did say he owned him and didn't know how he was going to thank him, didn't he? That's why I think they're going to go with Jason being involved with Conner somehow.

Edit: My guess as for why Conner is pretty much the same that dietrich: they needed a super-family, and they went with him. I don't think they want to use Kara, given that she's the lead in another show already. And Conner is a conflicted character enough to fit in the team they're forming.

Edit: I'm guessing that, too is why they went with Conner in YJ. They could've used Kara, I guess, but it could feel a bit redundant, with another female alien in the team. Same reason why not using Starfire. It fitted better their team dynamics, I guess.

----------


## Sergard

@mejiro927 (from 2017)

----------


## Sergard

@mejiro927





@eskimosheep (from 2016)




@eskimosheep (from 2016)

----------


## Sergard

@bacco85 (from 2018)




@bacco85 (from 2017)

----------


## Sergard

@bacco85 (from 2017)






@bacco85 (from 2017)

----------


## Sergard

@bacco85






@bacco85 (from 2018)

----------


## Sergard

@bacco85 (from 2018)

----------


## Restingvoice

> I've only seen screenshots and a little clip on YouTube.
> But since Conner Kent is my favorite member of the Super family and Jason is my favorite member of the Bat family, I'm obviously very biased and happy that those two share some scenes.
> Although I still don't understand why Conner appears in Titans in the first place. Conner Kent is a character that I associate with Tim Drake and not with Dick Grayson. (I'm also confused by the Young Justice cartoon regarding that aspect.)


Young Justice is Tim's team from the 90s consisting of him, Conner, Cassie Sandsmark and Bart, so that's why they're there. 

The real question is, why did they go with a hybrid of Dick's TT which is him, Wally, Gar, Roy, and Tim's YJ, or to be exact, Tim's TT, which is Conner, Cassie, Bart, Jaime, Miss Martian, and Aqualad for YJ 

I think YJ just want to use the popular slash recent character as soon as possible, like how Damian's TT cartoon use Dick's team, while avoiding including too much of from the popular TT cartoon so it doesn't feel samey, so they ended up using a little bit of this and a little bit of that. 

After that T probably use Conner because he's popular in YJ and at the same time because they can't use Supergirl because she has her own series in a different universe.

----------


## Sergard

Fade (birthday gift for Fade, artwork by JJMK)




remina (Dick and Jason)





@Asebury

----------


## Sergard

Source: Matthew Stapleton (art by Kenneth Rocafort)

_Red Hood half/half commission from @mitografia_kr during LACC_ 

(also with comment by Scott Lobdell)

----------


## Restingvoice

> Fade (birthday gift for JJMK)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> remina (Dick and Jason)


I really want to make a lewd joke on fade's work but can't think of a really good one. Like I wanna make one about cherry but that's strawberry.

Remina's work, they look like shojo manga princes. Their hair is black but uncolored, and with that style, they remind me of those neat and curly-haired blonde brother princes or young noblemen love interests.

----------


## RedBird

Dexter Soy

----------


## RedBird

yen-yen-yen

----------


## Sergard

Javechan (for Fade - sorry, I got it wrong in the last post. It's Fade's birthday, not JJMK's)




Artwork was inspired by Fade's Siren!Jason.

Fade




Sae (adult Damian and Jason)

----------


## Sergard

Joseph O'Hanlon





Felipe Trindade

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

With the rumors for 5G growing stronger, what are you guys hopes (and fears) for Jason's future?

----------


## Sergard

> With the rumors for 5G growing stronger, what are you guys hopes (and fears) for Jason's future?


Hope: Red Hood/Outlaws won't be influenced (too much) by all that big changes going on.

Fear: Morrison 2.0 trainwreck

----------


## Zaresh

> Hope: Red Hood/Outlaws won't be influenced (too much) by all that big changes going on.
> 
> Fear: Morrison 2.0 trainwreck


Pretty much this. I fear that they make back Jason into his take pre-FP. But I don't think that will happen.
If there's some serious timeskip, maybe they may associate him to other character, like they did with Batwoman in Detective Comics. Not that I'm enthusiastic with him sitting in the back as a supporting of other character, but it could be way worse. Look ad Bruce in Batman Beyond: that's not a bad place to be.

----------


## Sergard

I'm not really following the 5G discussions. Is there already a rumor for the next Wonder Woman?
I'm scared that Artemis has to leave the Outlaws because she'll be a supporting character in Wonder Woman.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I'm not really following the 5G discussions. Is there already a rumor for the next Wonder Woman?
> I'm scared that Artemis has to leave the Outlaws because she'll be a supporting character in Wonder Woman.


Rumor, yes. Artemis, no. 
And its not Donna or Cassie either. The biggest rumor is that its some new rando in her comic that's supposed to take over.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I don't know if is that I've grown jaded, but this whole 5G idea fails to interest me. When I want to read Batman or Superman, I want to read about Bruce and Clark, not about any rando they picked up from a hat.

----------


## Arsenal

> With the rumors for 5G growing stronger, what are you guys hopes (and fears) for Jason's future?


Hopes: Once the 5G stuff is done, Jason/the Outlaws end up better than they were before

Fears: We end up with something that's worse than TentaTodd or Morrison's Red Head Marketing Major

----------


## Sergard

> I don't know if is that I've grown jaded, but this whole 5G idea fails to interest me. When I want to read Batman or Superman, I want to read about Bruce and Clark, not about any rando they picked up from a hat.


I feel you. No one can really replace Bruce as Batman, Clark as Superman, etc. in main continuity. DC could retire the current Justice League and re-brand Dick's Titans the new Justice League with the respective changes in identity and it would still feel wrong to me.

But concerning this topic I've seen this comment in the DC 5G discussion thread. And it makes sense to me.




> Some of the fans here don't seem to understand the purpose behind this. This isn't meant for classic comic book readers. Like ANAD, which help Marvel branch into finally producing semi-successful to successful new characters for Marvel, this is meant to attract new readers with a diverse setting of new characters that aren't given the chance with the current reading demographic. Now if some classic fans actually enjoy the new books that they would release from 5g, more power to you, you break the mold. But DC definitely isn't doing this for classic readers, they know full well that classic readers prefer the status quo. But that same status quo is limiting the ability to reach new audiences and is causing their sales to be even worse than when it was during New 52.
> 
> So it's perfectly understandable to be upset about your prefer characters being replaced (though it sounds like the books will continue to be release, it's just more like a JSA based universe while 5g would be the current universe) but let's not pretend like 5g is meant for the classic comic book fan. It's not.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Gonna quote myself from that thread




> I don't follow Marvel closely, but a quick glance at last month's solicits shows me that all the classic characters are back already, headlining their usual books. And this is after what, Marvel's fifth rebranding in the last eight years? Using a stablished character as a crutch to introduce more diversity or variety in the roster has been proved to never work in the long term and in the current status quo of DC, where no one is really happy with their direction, this will only further alienate the core fanbase for a spike in sales that will plummet in a few months. It happened with DCYOU already, it happened with most of Marvel's relaunches, it will happen again. 
> 
> You want to diversify your characters? Appeal to a new fanbase? Then diversify your output with new books, new lines. DC's recent approach with subsidiary lines for young adults and kids is the perfect way to reach a newer audience, replacing a well-known character for literal unknowns, is not.

----------


## Swallowtail

Yes, but the real value of these characters isnt in the year or two they will be headlining so-so selling comics. Its the IP they generate out of it. Its Natalie Portman as Thor and the Batwoman and Falcon Captain America series. DC and Marvel need to generate IP to remain viable. Batman only really generates an adaptable story every couple of years - look how often Under the Red Hood gets retold - and dont have the infrastructure to tell brand new stories with new characters  the way say Shōnen Jump does, so theyve got to keep putting new twists on old characters to make money. Whats it like to be black Batman? is an easy hook for adaptation that doesnt need masses of lore to back it up, in the same way what if Robin went bad? is.

----------


## Sergard

Sailor





@nuu__t




jbw_778977

----------


## Sergard

_sdimo_

_A short comic for Bruce and Jay playing video games!! Pls Pls Pls watch Lego Batman Family Matters to have more sweet moments_

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Yes, but the real value of these characters isnt in the year or two they will be headlining so-so selling comics. Its the IP they generate out of it. Its Natalie Portman as Thor and *the Batwoman and Falcon Captain America series*. DC and Marvel need to generate IP to remain viable. Batman only really generates an adaptable story every couple of years - look how often Under the Red Hood gets retold - and dont have the infrastructure to tell brand new stories with new characters  the way say Shōnen Jump does, so theyve got to keep putting new twists on old characters to make money. Whats it like to be black Batman? is an easy hook for adaptation that doesnt need masses of lore to back it up, in the same way what if Robin went bad? is.


Series that failed to keep steady sales and were canceled. 

Really, if you want new characters to use in videogames, cartoons or whatever, there's absolutely no need to introduce them by replacing well-known and loved characters first.

----------


## Sergard

_sdimo_





@0alicetodd0




@0alicetodd0

----------


## Zaresh

> Sailor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (...)


The first one of this bunch is very good. Dynamic, fun looking, and also picturing some awesomeness with Jason rescuing Jason. It's a great piece.

----------


## Swallowtail

> Series that failed to keep steady sales and were canceled.


Their TV series, not their comic series. If comic sales were the only thing taken into consideration RHATO probably wouldn’t still be chugging along. Heck, you could cancel the whole line and replace it with DC superhero girls. That outsells everything but Killing Joke.

And there is no conceivable way DC have to create heat on a character then making him Batman for a while. Nothing else they could do even comes close.

----------


## RedBird

> Hope: Red Hood/Outlaws won't be influenced (too much) by all that big changes going on.
> 
> Fear: Morrison 2.0 trainwreck


Pretty much, hopefully Rhato will just continue along as it usually does during these kinds of 'big shakeups'. I feel like being constantly on the outskirts has its benefits.

----------


## Aahz

> Their TV series, not their comic series. If comic sales were the only thing taken into consideration RHATO probably wouldn’t still be chugging along. Heck, you could cancel the whole line and replace it with DC superhero girls. That outsells everything but Killing Joke.


But you don't really need a comic for a TV series.
Just look at Legends of Tomorrow, the team and some of these main characters don't exist in the comics.

If they want to do a Batwing Series or Movie, it doesn't really matter much if he had ever been Batman in the comics (unless they managed to write a really amazing story), since the majority of the viewers has anyway never read the comics.

----------


## Swallowtail

> But you don't really need a comic for a TV series.
> Just look at Legends of Tomorrow, the team and some of these main characters don't exist in the comics.
> 
> If they want to do a Batwing Series or Movie, it doesn't really matter much if he had ever been Batman in the comics (unless they managed to write a really amazing story), since the majority of the viewers has anyway never read the comics.


Yeah, but Legends was launched as "Hey look, a show about Canary and Atom and Captain Cold and all the minor characters you like from the first couple of seasons of Arrow on the Flash" for a whole season before they got bored with its premise and it went out and became it's own weird thing. We're in this heavily IP driven environment at the moment, where screen-writers are actually told, "Hey could you go and turn your script into a graphic novel first so we can say it's based on something" in order to sell your script. Having something be from the comic give it legitimacy. Comics are a very small slice of the pie in terms of WB's overall sales, so they need to bring added value. That means every now and then you pull a stunt like this. Black Batman will get mainstream news coverage. It will mean Luke-as-Batman merch and a Luke-as-Batman TV animated movie. It's the same reason Barbara will stay Batgirl. Because no comic is going to be worth as much to the company, as all those red-headed barbie dolls AT&T sells to little girls.

----------


## cc008

> With the rumors for 5G growing stronger, what are you guys hopes (and fears) for Jason's future?


Very new to DC comics and not super familiar with the Generation stuff. Could someone give a super quick rundown?

----------


## Aahz

> Very new to DC comics and not super familiar with the Generation stuff. Could someone give a super quick rundown?


It seem as DC will basically do what Marvel did recently with "All new all Differnt" and have all their big Characters pass their mantles to new Characters.
In case of Batman it seems like Luke Fox (Batwing) will take over.

----------


## Sergard

Virtual_Mockingbird (Red Hood and Red Robin)




@bocbochmhm




@nuu__t (Tim and Jason)

----------


## Sergard

ShafMosu

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I got my hands on the "Anatomy of a Metahuman" book, and it was pretty weird to see the Dark Trinity mentioned in the Bizarro entry, mainly because the rest of the book only references events up to Darkseid War, so the brief Rebirth mention is so out of place.

----------


## Sergard

> Very new to DC comics and not super familiar with the Generation stuff. Could someone give a super quick rundown?


The Generation stuff is pretty new.
DC has revealed a "new" timeline at a convention at the beginning of this month. Here's a thread about it. The main information is that DC has structured the history of their comic universe into four Generations, and each Generation is subdivided into Years, although I don't think that "Year" actually means "365 days". Otherwise Bruce Wayne/Batman would be 60+ years old by now. We are currently in Generation 4 Year 5. (just for comparison: Generation 1 is 25 Years long and Generation 2 and 3 are 15 Years each.)

So far, there are only rumors about Generation 5 (short: 5G) starting soon. And the main rumor is that all the big heroes (Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Flash and Green Lantern) will step down and their mantles will be passed to new/lesser known characters. Rumors say that the 5G Batman will be Luke Fox and the 5G Superman will be Jon Kent. There's a thread (mainly speculation) about that topic too.

As Aahz has mentioned, Marvel has done something similar in the past already. The main target group are new readers. So since you are pretty new to DC, as you have mentioned, 5G might be something for you (if 5G really happens).

There is still some stuff I personally don't understand (I also don't follow Marvel comics, so I don't know how they handled their stuff):

When does Generation 4 end and when does Generation 5 start? Generation 2 and 3 have 15 Years each. So I'd imagine that Generation 4 will also have 15 Years. Does that mean that 5G is set 10 Years in the future?

Will there be Generation 4 and Generation 5 comics? What will be considered the "main universe"? Or will every comic have a time jump and missing years will be addressed in flashbacks?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Finished cover for 39

----------


## Sergard

Tank(@JayKorre)

_Viking Jason and his dog for Inktober Day 6: Husky. (PS his dog's name is Saga, after the Norse goddess of stories) #JasonTodd #RedHood  (couldn't decide which hairstyle I liked best)_





@4yottsu

_#inktober2019 #batober #jasontodd day11 snow_

----------


## Sergard

Titans season 2 episode 7 "Bruce Wayne" will debut on Oct. 18, 2019.




> Tensions are running high at Titans Tower after their most recent encounter with Deathstroke. Kory attempts to learn more about Conner Kent, and Rose tries to help Jason cope with his near-death experience, while the old Titans keep getting mysterious reminders of a past theyd rather forget. As Dick sets out alone to track down Deathstroke, a familiar voice begins to haunt him  taunting him and attempting to guide him back to being the leader the Titans need. With all the strange ongoing happenings and Dicks continuing to keep the team in the dark, both Jason and the Titans reach a potential breaking point.

----------


## cc008

> Finished cover for 39


Whoa. 10char

----------


## Zaresh

> Whoa. 10char


Yep. It's pretty good.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Javechan (for Fade - sorry, I got it wrong in the last post. It's Fade's birthday, not JJMK's)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Artwork was inspired by Fade's Siren!Jason.
> 
> Fade


Ah. Classic two art styles of Jason. Hunk and Twink.




> Finished cover for 39


I'm really getting bored of the crowbar

----------


## Sergard

@yosuga0101




Paz(@ivokiku)




EineLi(@Elitas_HP)

----------


## Sergard

@stariver00





Peejay Catacutan




Chris Johnson

----------


## Sergard

David Messina

_Red Hood #41_

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I can't wait to see that costume go. I look at him and I see a MK ninja, not Jason.

----------


## Arsenal

The costume may grown on me but the face mask needs some work.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I can't wait to see that costume go. I look at him and I see a MK ninja, not Jason.


While the costume isn't bad, I have to agree with you. I keep thinking of Scorpion or Subzero from MK with that outfit.

Honestly surprised Jason hasn't done a "Get over here!" thing yet. Or he did and I just missed it.

----------


## Sergard

> Ah. Classic two art styles of Jason. Hunk and Twink.


Also two of my favorite art styles.  :Wink: 






> I'm really getting bored of the crowbar


In retrospect, I'm surprised how irrelevant the crowbar was.

----------


## RedBird

> Chris Johnson


Hmm, is this for an upcoming comic, cause I'm sure the recent batman/tmnt series just ended.

----------


## RedBird

lime-time

----------


## RedBird

02png

----------


## RedBird

02png

----------


## RedBird

kannoponta



Looks like an unmasked version of the kid Jason on that batdad statue.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Sergard

RED HOOD: OUTLAW #42
written by SCOTT LOBDELL
art and cover by PAULO PANTALENA
variant cover by PHILIP TAN
No one was harmed in the making of this issue! Red Hood is thrilled Artemis and Bizarro are back...but so much has changed for the Outlaws. For the moment theyre mentors to the next generation of super-villains, and if you dont think the kids are going to challenge their new teacher, Bizarro...then you dont know Generation Outlaw! Plus, Jason and Artemis finally follow up on that kiss (you know the one!)...but their feelings surprise them both! In the meantime, an unspeakable darkness reveals itself...did the Outlaws finally come together just in time to watch helplessly as the world ends around them?
ON SALE 01.22.20
$3.99 US | 32 PAGES
FC|DC
This issue will ship with two covers. Please see the order form for details.

----------


## Sergard

Jason Fabok has posted a new _Three Jokers_ sneak peek. 

_"...You and I, were more alike than youd care to admit..."

#batman #ThreeJokers_

----------


## adrikito

Finally the Outlaws are together again..

I hope not see this ending in R.Hood Outlaws 50..  :Frown:

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> RED HOOD: OUTLAW #42
> written by SCOTT LOBDELL
> art and cover by PAULO PANTALENA
> variant cover by PHILIP TAN
> No one was harmed in the making of this issue! Red Hood is thrilled Artemis and Bizarro are back...but so much has changed for the Outlaws. For the moment they’re mentors to the next generation of super-villains, and if you don’t think the kids are going to challenge their new teacher, Bizarro...then you don’t know Generation Outlaw! Plus, Jason and Artemis finally follow up on that kiss (you know the one!)...but their feelings surprise them both! In the meantime, an unspeakable darkness reveals itself...did the Outlaws finally come together just in time to watch helplessly as the world ends around them?
> ON SALE 01.22.20
> $3.99 US | 32 PAGES
> FC|DC
> This issue will ship with two covers. Please see the order form for details.


Oh nice, I really like Pantalena's work since he did that fill in issue in RH Arsenal. I hope he's the new main artist.

----------


## Zaresh

> RED HOOD: OUTLAW #42
> written by SCOTT LOBDELL
> art and cover by PAULO PANTALENA
> variant cover by PHILIP TAN
> No one was harmed in the making of this issue! Red Hood is thrilled Artemis and Bizarro are back...but so much has changed for the Outlaws. For the moment they’re mentors to the next generation of super-villains, and if you don’t think the kids are going to challenge their new teacher, Bizarro...then you don’t know Generation Outlaw! Plus, Jason and Artemis finally follow up on that kiss (you know the one!)...but their feelings surprise them both! In the meantime, an unspeakable darkness reveals itself...did the Outlaws finally come together just in time to watch helplessly as the world ends around them?
> ON SALE 01.22.20
> $3.99 US | 32 PAGES
> FC|DC
> This issue will ship with two covers. Please see the order form for details.


Well, I don't know what to expect from this issue, but the art is probably going to look good.

----------


## Sergard

Is DC even trying to find a more permanent artist for RHatO?
Rocafort stayed for three issues, Messina for two - and I only know Pantalena as temporary artist for one or two issues.

----------


## Arsenal

Maybe we’ll get a new permanent artist once the new arc starts?

----------


## Zaresh

> Maybe we’ll get a new permanent artist once the new arc starts?


One can only hope. In my case, I like my books to have relatively uniform art, unless the constant shift has a purpose.

----------


## Jackalope89

Other than Jason's arms, I do like the art there. 

And it seems like Lobdell is taking the Jason and Artemis relationship in a direction, finally. Which one, I don't know. But either way, it sounds like the two will still be a team and family. With Bizz babysitting some moody teens. Right when the world is going to hell in a handbasket.

----------


## Arsenal

The world may be on fire but everything's looking just fine in Jason's little slice of it.

----------


## Jackalope89

> The world may be on fire but everything's looking just fine in Jason's little slice of it.


Lobdell cares for Jason and his cast, and won't just tear down other characters. Its why its about the only title I've stuck with to this point. Plus, the Dark Trinity is pretty awesome. Almost wish there was a "Dark" Justice League (not the magic focused "Justice League Dark"). Kind of like that one Earth where Jason ended up as Batman.

----------


## Sergard

Christopher Kluver

_Day 18 - Misfit
.
Name a more iconic misfit than Jason Todd, Ill wait._




Paulos Kiz

_Day 18 : MISFIT_




Ilya Golitsyn

_#inktoberday18 Jason Todd - misfit in the family_

----------


## Sergard

remina (there are also versions of Dick, Tim and Damian)




@yosuga0101

----------


## adrikito

> @yosuga0101


What? I am agree with Jason but with damian for this cases exist DICK GRAYSON.

The artist replaced him for superkid.  :Mad:

----------


## Rac7d*

Finally Jason and rose is happening

----------


## Sergard

> Finally Jason and rose is happening


Interesting.  :Big Grin: 
Jason and Rose in Titans and Jason and Artemis in the comics. I'm okay with that.
Characters don't need to have the same relationships in every universe.
But I'm surprised how many "couples" Titans has.

----------


## Sergard

syaranexx (from 2017)





Siobhan Clair(@si0g0)




xin(@nebeauxla)

----------


## Sergard

cuddlycl0ud




@kuzuyu_427




@yottsu

_#inktober2019 #batober day16 wild_

----------


## Arsenal

Somebody on twitter used some scenes from this weeks Titans episode and .... 

https://twitter.com/uberkryptonian/s...627323905?s=21

----------


## RedBird

chingsty

_Bruce is proud of Jason_


_“Robin after a fight”_ 




chingsty



_A soft pat on the head_

----------


## cc008

Just finished the League of Assassins trade from the New 52 run. Really enjoyed that story arc. Will get to volume 5 soon.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

The Tynion arc?

For real!?

----------


## cc008

> The Tynion arc?
> 
> For real!?


Yeah I mean I don't have the familiarity with a lot of these characters like I do Marvel. So I wouldn't know what to base it off of. But I felt much more engaged reading that than the Nightwing volume where he finds Zucco in Chicago. Maybe I'm a weirdo lol.

----------


## Sergard

> Yeah I mean I don't have the familiarity with a lot of these characters like I do Marvel. So I wouldn't know what to base it off of. But I felt much more engaged reading that than the Nightwing volume where he finds Zucco in Chicago. Maybe I'm a weirdo lol.


It's okay. You are not a weirdo because you like a story that someone else doesn't.  :Wink: 
Personally, I liked some scenes and ideas of the story arc - but there's also a list of things I wish Tynion hadn't done or had done different.
What were your favorite moments from the arc?

----------


## cc008

> It's okay. You are not a weirdo because you like a story that someone else doesn't. 
> Personally, I liked some scenes and ideas of the story arc - but there's also a list of things I wish Tynion hadn't done or had done different.
> What were your favorite moments from the arc?


I enjoyed Arsenal's unwillingness to give up on Jason... although I really don't care much about the relationship between him and Kori.. so that stuff about keeping secrets was whatever. The battle that led to Ra's coming back was pretty cool too. Jason regaining his memories and wise cracking his way through everyone was awesome. 

Also really liked the flashback to Gotham when Jason initially saved Roy.

ETA- I still have the second half of Tynion's arc to go, so I haven't been through the full story yet.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Yeah* I mean I don't have the familiarity with a lot of these characters* like I do Marvel. So I wouldn't know what to base it off of. But I felt much more engaged reading that than the Nightwing volume where he finds Zucco in Chicago. Maybe I'm a weirdo lol.


Well, that explains it. Tynion run is character assassination left and right for every single character involved. And on top of that, it has the ugliest art I've ever seen in a Big Two comic.

----------


## Sergard

I found a new awesome Jason Todd/Red Hood artist on instagram.

@jiaren584




@jiaren584





@jiaren584 (Jason in his All Caste outfit)

----------


## Sergard

@jiaren584





hwadrin94




@onebluewolf_ad

_Day 19 - Robin - The Boy Wonder - Jason Todd._

----------


## cc008

> Well, that explains it. Tynion run is character assassination left and right for every single character involved. And on top of that, it has the ugliest art I've ever seen in a Big Two comic.


I actually liked the art a lot lol. Could you explain why the character assassination? Or why you find it that bad? I'd love to understand these characters more

----------


## Zaresh

Wow, @Seagard; gorgeous art all those you've posted.

On the topic of RHATO during New 52.

In my case, I dropped the book in that arc: it bored me too much, and all being too much over the top didn't help. But it's just my opinion.

----------


## Sergard

I think I have to reread the New52 run because I have already forgotten some stuff. (I can't remember what Kori was doing in Tynion's run, for example.)
The artwork in Tynion's run isn't my favorite style either, although it's not my least favorite. There are worse.

I don't like amnesia arcs (in US-comics) in general. More often than not it just feels like a new writer wants to have an easy start without caring about character consistency.
A character with amnesia doesn't need to be in-character because they have amnesia.

I like Ra's Al Ghul - and it would have been interesting to see a confrontation between Jason and Ra's without Jason being amnesic. It could have been a good character study to show their similarities but also their differences. Sadly, that's not what the arc was about.

Bronze Tiger was a positive addition.

Also a plus: Tynion bringing Ducra back as ghost. I like her character and was sad that Lobdell killed her before she even was properly introduced.

The arc was very heavy on mystical stuff - which seems to be Tynion's strong point/passion. But I feel like Tynion went too far.
I don't like that Jason met Talia as kid (before he met Bruce) and defeated an Untitled by using some strange move he was able to do because he's "born special".
For me, Jason was always the "hard worker" and not the character with "perfect genes", "genius talent" or "destined for greatness".

----------


## Arsenal

I actually liked Talia & Jason having a connection pre-Bruce but the way Tynion approached it wasn’t the best.

----------


## Zaresh

Even with that, you can argue that, despite anything related with his birth or whatever mystical stuff, he's still a hard worker to his bone. He was delivered some really awful cards that could've mean his death or his absolute fall even before he died, and he has played them the best he could. He still does. I usually fall for that kind of character, and that didn't bother me that much as all the "I win like it's nothing here, look at those fancy moves I'm so awesome, this is all so cool" that put me off entirely, and the idea of that convoluted plan to deceive and defeat Ra's and his plans (something that came from nowhere, or at least I don't remember it being somehow laid before it happened): that was, eh, not my taste. I did like Roy's and Kori's role, as far as I recall: they really, really were shown caring for Jason. But even with that, it bored me. I skipped throughout the last issue and maybe the one before that. It probably doesn't help that at that time I had just finished reading pre-PF Red Robin and, well, it was much more fun to read.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I actually liked the art a lot lol. Could you explain why the character assassination? Or why you find it that bad? I'd love to understand these characters more


Let's start with Jason. Something that has always characterized him is the fact that he will always do what *he* thinks is right and will stand up for what he believes. And what Tynion do? Turn him into a weak-willed individual that needs to be told what to do. The entire arc Jason is being played like a fiddle by Ducra and the League. Tynion deciding to use an amnesia plotline didn't do him any favor either since it is one of the tritest and overused cliches. And whether he had to change things midways or not, the ending is unearned, with Jason's motivation being completely nonsensical. But the worst part is that Tynion intentionally fooled the reader by retconning Jason's and Ducra meeting in issue 19 when it was shown again in issue 27. Tying him to the League is incredibly forced (especially with Damian existing), adding baggage to Jason that doesn't add anything and just works to enforce the misconception that Jason was written in the N52 like this Mary Sue, able to anything and everything.

Roy relationship with Jason has always been a complicated issue amidst comic fans, but in general, Lobdell made an effort to show them like the kind of "bro" friendship one can find among high schoolers, a lot of bant, reluctance to acknowledge the relationship as genuine friendship and so on. And yet, Roy was never depicted as being clingy. Tynion outright made Roy unwilling to live without Jason and generally turned him into a whiny caricature of how Lobdell wrote him during the previous 18 issues. He also exaggerated Roy's knack for invention, taking a very literal interpretation of the Arsenal name, by arming him to the teeth and making him pull stuff that it wouldn't be out of place in the trashiest 90s comic. 

I honestly can't even recall what was Kori characterization besides some vague impressions that he made her very moody and prone to violence. 

The idea that the League would have a mythical, secret city is laughably bad, and it doesn't mesh with any previous depiction of the league. the most they've been shown to have is hidden fortresses and the like. They are also martial artists so Tynion's OCs, are awfully out of place. Having them stomp over everyone else just to show how cool they are, just make them more insufferable, so it is no wonder no one mentioned them ever again. Same with Bronze Tiger's power to turn into a weretiger. 

Ra's was written like a cartoon villain, with none of the nuance or depth he usually has, with the cherry on the top of the crappy cake is him being defeated by something out of a Saturday Morning Cartoon. 

Lobdell never fully explored the lore behind the All Caste and the Untitled, but it was obvious the whole thing wasn't as fantastical as Tynion wrote it. So the whole thing just comes off as forced, and Jason becoming this chosen one is in extremely bad taste. So bad that even Lobdell took a jab at it later, when he wrote Jason telling to Ducra's face that he would never be a chosen one. 

Dunno, the whole thing is just poorly planned and written, with the kind of plot holes and poor characterization that I'd expect from a fanfiction writer, not a professional one.

----------


## cc008

Thanks so much for going into detail. I can agree that Jason always doing what he believes to be right appears to be super evident to me and being strung along isn't great. I didn't mind the amnesia stuff because to a new reader like me, I was learning about his past as it was explored. (However poorly more veteran fans may find it). 

I'm reading through Batman, Detective Comics, Nightwing, RHATO, and Batman and Robin all from New 52.. trying to absorb as much as possible.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Thanks so much for going into detail. I can agree that Jason always doing what he believes to be right appears to be super evident to me and being strung along isn't great. I didn't mind the amnesia stuff because to a new reader like me, I was learning about his past as it was explored. (However poorly more veteran fans may find it). 
> 
> I'm reading through Batman, Detective Comics, Nightwing, RHATO, and Batman and Robin all from New 52.. trying to absorb as much as possible.


Just to point this out; I wouldn't get too attached to the New52. Even for Jason, whom was largely left alone in regards to characterization, had his New52 origin retconned back to post-Crisis.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Just to point this out; I wouldn't get too attached to the New52. Even for Jason, whom was largely left alone in regards to characterization, had his New52 origin retconned back to post-Crisis.


It wasn't retconned, the two were combined. Plus, the entire of Rebirth run heavily references and/or alludes the N52 and DCYOU runs.

----------


## Zaresh

So Jason met Bruce stealing the tyres, but he actually crossed paths with him when he stole from Leslie (it was Leslie, right?)? And he thought he was born in a hospital, but according to the letter, he was born in his home. There seems to be some minor contradictions, or at the very least, an unclear sequence of events.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> So Jason met Bruce stealing the tyres, but he actually crossed paths with him when he stole from Leslie (it was Leslie, right?)? And he thought he was born in a hospital, but according to the letter, he was born in his home. There seems to be some minor contradictions, or at the very least, an unclear sequence of events.


Probably the latter. If they settle on a timeline, they can simply explain the inconsistencies by saying those were said by unreliable narrators.

----------


## Zaresh

> Probably the latter. If they settle on a timeline, they can simply explain the inconsistencies by saying those were said by unreliable narrators.


Mmmm... Well, the unreliable narrator is kind of present in Jason's stories, wouldn't be the first time. So yeah, I can see them going that way.

----------


## Sergard

I don't like the New52 Leslie origin. I hate the idea of Jason stealing from a woman who just helped him. The post-crisis origin is perfect. There was never a need for a change.

I also hate the unreliable narrator trope. It's a cheap trick to retcon stuff that wasn't liked by readers.

----------


## RedBird

> I don't like the New52 Leslie origin. I hate the idea of Jason stealing from a woman who just helped him. The post-crisis origin is perfect. There was never a need for a change.
> 
> I also hate the unreliable narrator trope. It's a cheap trick to retcon stuff that wasn't liked by readers.


Agreed, Lobdell messed with something that was already iconic and didn't need any changes. I've already made posts about this, so I'm not gonna pull out panels again but suffice to say, Jason claims on both origins that that is when he 'met Batman'. In the context, you can't meet someone twice. It's contradiction. So I don't care what Lobdell says, I'm just grateful the tire origin is back, and a good riddance to the drug theft origin. Not only did it miss the point of Jasons character and give absolutely NOTHING in it's place that displayed his attitude and virtues as the tire origin did, it even made Bruce seem like a heartless brute ready to arrest a homeless kid if not for Leslie coming in and imploring Bruce not to arrest Jason.

----------


## Ssstammerer

My Jason Todd display at BatCon 2019!  :Cool:

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> My Jason Todd display at BatCon 2019!


Very impressive!



Also, September sales numbers are out

123. RED HOOD OUTLAW #38 (DC) - 18,425 [125]

https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...9/2019-09.html

----------


## Zaresh

Good. Still towards the 18.5k.

----------


## Sergard

> Thanks so much for going into detail. I can agree that Jason always doing what he believes to be right appears to be super evident to me and being strung along isn't great. I didn't mind the amnesia stuff because to a new reader like me, I was learning about his past as it was explored. (However poorly more veteran fans may find it). 
> 
> I'm reading through Batman, Detective Comics, Nightwing, RHATO, and Batman and Robin all from New 52.. trying to absorb as much as possible.


A little off-topic: In case you like the mystical stuff in Tynion's arc, you should give "The Immortal Men" by Tynion a try. The comic was part of the New Age of Heroes initiative and only has six issues (sadly).





> My Jason Todd display at BatCon 2019!


Nice collection. Are you planing on getting the XM Studios Red Hood 1/6 statue too?



Okay, what did I miss? (source)

----------


## Arsenal

Season 2 Episode 7 of Titans was a rough one for Jason. So much so that it left a rather large elephant in the room that needs to be addressed but I don’t know if they’ll do it properly.

----------


## Zaresh

> Okay, what did I miss? (source)


*spoilers:*
Someone is messing with the old Titans gen's heads and they blamed Jason because... because (no reason or whatsoever. They just went and did it). Jason, who was dealing with some serious damage from falling down all the way up a skycraper (because you cannot have a Jason without PTSD, heh), and probably older stuff. Then the kid went to the roof (or maybe it was a very spacious balcony), put himself on the ledge and looked down. Yeah, this is implying that he was thinking about trowing himself down the Titan's tower. Then Dick, who has just arrived there after dealing with his own psychosis, realized that Jason was nowhere to be seen, went up, and talked him down the ledge... more or less. That quote was what Jason said to Dick. Seems like Titans-Jason is blaming himself for everything wrong around him. I think he also called himself "poison". He also said that he was broken, iirc.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Aahz

> Good. Still towards the 18.5k.


And now on par with Deathstroke.

----------


## Zaresh

> And now on par with Deathstroke.


I can't believe Deathstroke lowered so much its sales. Wasn't it always around the 30k? But then, it seems like every book has lost quite a few figures. And it's another small-base series, too.

----------


## Aahz

> I can't believe Deathstroke lowered so much its sales. Wasn't it always around the 30k? But then, it seems like every book has lost quite a few figures. And it's another small-base series, too.


It used to have lower sales then RHatO, untill they started to use Gimmiks (Puttuing him up against Batman, Putting him in Arkham, Cross Over with Teen Titans, Killing him).

----------


## RedBird

> It used to have lower sales then RHatO, untill they started to use Gimmiks (Puttuing him up against Batman, Putting him in Arkham, Cross Over with Teen Titans, Killing him).


You may be onto something.

I remember picking up the Deathstroke teen titans and batman crossovers by themselves and enjoying those few issues for the guest stars, (Bruce, Damian, Tim etc).

Now that I've been backtracking and reading Deathstroke issue one+rebirth onward for the two months or so, those crossovers are actually SUPER annoying when you're actually just interested in Deathstrokes overarching narrative.

----------


## Zaresh

> It used to have lower sales then RHatO, untill they started to use Gimmiks (Puttuing him up against Batman, Putting him in Arkham, Cross Over with Teen Titans, Killing him).


Oh, I see. I wasn't looking every month at its sales when I was reading, but I remember that it was selling low but fine when I stopped reading (this spring, almost already in summer).

----------


## Sergard

drawing-cookie




nockuth




Virtual_Mockingbird

----------


## Sergard

jiaren584





John Timms




JAGZ

----------


## Ssstammerer

> Nice collection. Are you planing on getting the XM Studios Red Hood 1/6 statue too?


Thanks! Probably, yeah. So far I only have 4 statues of Jason; New 52 Koto, DC Collectibles Arkham Knight Red Hood, a bootleg of Koto Arkham Knight, and my newly acquired DC Collectibles Batman Family Multi-Part Statue Red Hood.

----------


## Ssstammerer

This bad boy arrived last night!  :Wink:

----------


## Zaresh

> This bad boy arrived last night!


I love that statue. I like the pose, but also find the way he leans into some arquitecture thing quite clever, helping the pose in looking more natural.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Gotta vote for Jason.

----------


## Zaresh

Well, whoever the redhead with a white streak in *White Knight* is

*spoilers:*

It's in a flashback of Leslie and Alfred from when Bruce was still young. So it has to be Jason Blood.

Unless there's some weird time shenanigans going on. But eh, this guys's clearly a magician.
Not unexpected, but I'm still wondering if we will really see whatever happened with Jason in the end.

*end of spoilers*

----------


## Sergard

> Gotta vote for Jason.


Isn't that Flamingo on the cover? Strange character choice. When was even the last time he appeared in comics?

"Best supporting villain" is also an odd category. Since when do villains support other villains?

And is this the whole list? Seems a little short, considering that the DC universe is full of villains. Where are the villains from other comics like Batgirl, Nightwing, Supergirl, Justice League Dark and Justice League Odyssey?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Isn't that Flamingo on the cover? Strange character choice. When was even the last time he appeared in comics?
> 
> "Best supporting villain" is also an odd category. Since when do villains support other villains?
> 
> And is this the whole list? Seems a little short, considering that the DC universe is full of villains. Where are the villains from other comics like Batgirl, Nightwing, Supergirl, Justice League Dark and Justice League Odyssey?


Is just counting the ones who got a YOTV tie-in.

----------


## Sergard

> This bad boy arrived last night!


I wonder if this figure can be used as a bookend.




> Is just counting the ones who got a YOTV tie-in.


There are more YotV tie-ins.

----------


## Sergard

YB




@_hian_nm




@yshanggua2

----------


## Sergard

Fade




remina




@_Sae0000

_His partner, his soldier, his failure._

----------


## Sergard

Travis Mercer

_Digital doodling of Mr. Todd, sure win for teacher of the year! If you guys have not been reading this title by @scottylobdell you need to jump on and add this title to your pull list! Seriously it’s one of my favorite monthlies!!!_




Philip Tan

_Really doubt I’d complete #Inktober now... but let’s all blame it on failing tools and techs XD Now, maybe Jason would have been a #Huawei user and not worry about these.... More graphiteless art..._

----------


## Zaresh

> Travis Mercer
> 
> _Digital doodling of Mr. Todd, sure win for teacher of the year! If you guys have not been reading this title by @scottylobdell you need to jump on and add this title to your pull list! Seriously it’s one of my favorite monthlies!!!_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Philip Tan
> 
> _Really doubt I’d complete #Inktober now... but let’s all blame it on failing tools and techs XD Now, maybe Jason would have been a #Huawei user and not worry about these.... More graphiteless art..._


Ah, I love how much fun artists (professional or not) always have of drawing every suit that Jason uses.

----------


## Sergard

Rumor: DC preparing a new slate of shows for HBO Max 

Upcoming DCU, CW & HBO Max DC shows - r/TVLeaks (unverified)




> These are all the potential upcoming shows that I've heard about recently. I will be updating this list constantly:
> 
> DC Universe
> 
>     Jaime Blue Beetle
> 
>     Kyle Rainer Green Lantern
> 
> *Red Hood Titans spin-off (is 100000% going to happen, just not right now)*
> ...

----------


## Jackalope89

Yes!
Though I wonder who he'll have as supporting cast.

----------


## Zaresh

> Rumor: DC preparing a new slate of shows for HBO Max 
> 
> Upcoming DCU, CW & HBO Max DC shows - r/TVLeaks (unverified)


I'm super excited with the idea of any of the first three. More so if it's HBO, a production by them is almost always good at least, and sometimes, great (but I guess it will be something like a CW series, most probably, sigh). The other two, well, I don't know Titan's superboy enough to look forward to it, even if I liked him so far. And Hawk and Dove are nice, but don't get me interested in them enough to watch a whole series.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

This bit makes me doubt the accuracy of the whole thing




> Lobo (it's the Krypton spinoff show that got announced right before Krypton got canceled. Krypton connection up in the air now)


The show was killed _alongside_ Krypton's cancellation, not announced.

https://deadline.com/2019/08/krypton...fy-1202669840/

----------


## Sergard

Another rumor: REPORT: New Batman Game Titled 'Arkham Legacy,' Entire Batfamily Is Playable

As far as I understand, the game itself is still a rumor, or? And the "entire batfamily is playable" is a rumor within the rumor.

----------


## cc008

The game is much more of a reality than the entire Batfamily being playable is at this point. The latter is a recently surfaced rumor.

----------


## RedBird

Vorimar_raaaaan

----------


## RedBird

Dexter Soy

----------


## Sergard

Ren Wong




@syusyusyu1515




rik

----------


## Arsenal

A recent article posted on CBR dubbed Jason and Artemis as having one of "10 strongest romantic relationships in DC"

I found it oddly amusing since, you know, no romantic relationship officially exists (yet?) and figured I'd share. Though, I suppose, that could easily change in 3 months once issue 42 comes out.

----------


## Jackalope89

> A recent article posted on CBR dubbed Jason and Artemis as having one of "10 strongest romantic relationships in DC"
> 
> I found it oddly amusing since, you know, no romantic relationship officially exists (yet?) and figured I'd share. Though, I suppose, that could easily change in 3 months once issue 42 comes out.


True. Though without what little actual romance that has been shown, the two do have a strong relationship.

----------


## Zaresh

> A recent article posted on CBR dubbed Jason and Artemis as having one of "10 strongest romantic relationships in DC"
> 
> I found it oddly amusing since, you know, no romantic relationship officially exists (yet?) and figured I'd share. Though, I suppose, that could easily change in 3 months once issue 42 comes out.


And Scott and Barda aren't the first of the list? Eh, they share an even stronger relationship that, say, Wally and Linda, whose love could equal to a very powerful _deus ex machina_. Er... People and lists and opinions ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

----------


## Sergard

> A recent article posted on CBR dubbed Jason and Artemis as having one of "10 strongest romantic relationships in DC"
> 
> I found it oddly amusing since, you know, no romantic relationship officially exists (yet?) and figured I'd share. Though, I suppose, that could easily change in 3 months once issue 42 comes out.


I know it's clickbait and more of a "Top 10 underrated" list but it's nice to see other couples highlighted that are not Bruce/Selina, Bruce/Talia, Clark/Lois, Oliver/Dinah, Joker/Harley, Arthur/Mera, Diana/Steve, etc.

Looking at Big Barda and Mr Miracle, it makes me wonder why there is such a problem with Artemis being taller than Jason. It looks awkward when Artemis is suddenly drawn smaller in romantic scenes - or having a strange posture so that her head is lower than Jason's.

----------


## Sergard

stariver00




@_Sae0000

_Now and then_

----------


## Sergard

stariver00 (from 2015)





reference/original version:

----------


## Sergard

@Holdp_A (from 2013)




posa




Fade

----------


## Sergard

Kimnudge (from 2018)




Kimnudge (from 2017)



Kimnudge (from 2016)

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Kimnudge (from 2018)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kimnudge (from 2017)
> 
> 
> 
> Kimnudge (from 2016)



I don't know if is just my connection but I can't see any pictures. Probably because I don't have a weibo account.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I don't know if is just my connection but I can't see any pictures. Probably because I don't have a weibo account.


Same. They don't show up for me either.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Man, reading the TVtropes pages for the series is a bit painful, mainly because the one editing them has a pretty blatant bias against both the series and Lobdell. I've tried to clean it up a little but often my edits get undone.

----------


## Sergard

> I don't know if is just my connection but I can't see any pictures. Probably because I don't have a weibo account.






> Same. They don't show up for me either.


That's strange. I don't have a weibo account but can still see the pictures here in the forum and when using the link.
Do you see any error messages?
But I'll avoid weibo images in the future.





> Man, reading the TVtropes pages for the series is a bit painful, mainly because the one editing them has a pretty blatant bias against both the series and Lobdell. I've tried to clean it up a little but often my edits get undone.


Is TVtropes even meant to be taken seriously? I've seen some of their wiki entries and all seemed more or less like satire/making fun of the characters.

----------


## Sergard

writeittypeit





Miaboo

----------


## Sergard

chris(@prrtnrr)

_You know, I thought I thought Id be the last person youd ever let him hurt._ 






Mr. Faith

_He saw a bird at that night.

Drawn on August 16, 2019. Jays birthday. I love him and I believe I will love him forever.

I designed the setting of this picture by combing the scene designs of Red Hoods safe-houses in different comics: the guitar is from N52 tRHatO #17 P14, the wall hung so many weapons is from N52 Batman and Robin #11 P2, the bookshelves and wheel are from RB tRHatO #0 P21_

----------


## RedBird

inkydandy

----------


## Sergard

Two days ago inkydandy opened commissions and I was thinking about getting a Jason Todd artwork - but I couldn't decide on what I exactly wanted - and now commissions are closed already.
That was fast.

----------


## Zaresh

> That's strange. I don't have a weibo account but can still see the pictures here in the forum and when using the link.
> Do you see any error messages?
> But I'll avoid weibo images in the future.


I saw nothing in the place where the images are probably inserted. Blank space. I guess the others see the same. I guess it has to do with the website they're from, because I couldn't access there either.

----------


## Sergard

More teddybear artworks by hyaena666:

hyaena666




hyaena666




hyaena666

_Outlaws Teddy bear~Pokémon_

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> That's strange. I don't have a weibo account but can still see the pictures here in the forum and when using the link. Do you see any error messages?
> But I'll avoid weibo images in the future.


I'm guessing it doesn't allow hot linking,not reposting images from weibo is unnecessary, just upload them to imgur and something instead of linking directly from there. 





> Is TVtropes even meant to be taken seriously? I've seen some of their wiki entries and all seemed more or less like satire/making fun of the characters.


The idea is provide accurate analysis from the works listed there, so yeah.

----------


## Sergard

rik

_robin days jay welcoming bruce home_





rik

_Is there any rhato band AU yet?_




rin(@komieci)

_wanted to do this in 2018 but halloween passed so now here's batfam doing that meme this yr... realistically they'd never even blink at a haunted house so just imagine what they're rly looking at lol_

----------


## Sergard

@_Sae0000

----------


## Jackalope89

> rik
> 
> _robin days jay welcoming bruce home_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rik
> ...


Depending on what it is, I could see snarky Jason calling out the fake ghost/zombie, and claiming to be the real deal himself.

----------


## Sergard

_Sae0000




Paz(@ivokiku)




Tuoki

----------


## Sergard

@nuu__t




Lil Mango




matthenegartattoo

----------


## Sergard

Can someone please check the very first post of this thread and tell me if they see the strange change in format after "current outlaws" and before "former outlaws" too?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Yeah, the first page has an entirely different interface.

----------


## Sergard

David Messina




SEN








> Yeah, the first page has an entirely different interface.


I have the bad feeling that's somehow my fault because I have just updated the first post and before that the page looked normal - and after my edit it has changed.  :Frown:

----------


## Zaresh

> I have the bad feeling that's somehow my fault because I have just updated the first post and before that the page looked normal - and after my edit it has changed.


Could be that the picture for the Three Jokers broke the format of the tables. Maybe the forum has changed something after some update of the code and now images don't resize like before?

It's weird, very weird, to be honest.

----------


## Sergard

Problem solved.

----------


## Sergard

Dexter Soy

----------


## RedBird

fengfenghuohuoshuidajue




fengfenghuohuoshuidajue

----------


## Sergard

moriokk






moriokk

----------


## Sergard

sumi(@aya_uxu)






momon(@optimissie)

----------


## Sergard

@airair_ii




Batfam Zine (art by @Hellredsky)

----------


## Sergard

Joel Gomez




Javechan

_Post midnight doodling while catching up with Titans S2E7. I am livid with the team & internally died at Jay's scene. @CurranWalters1
 nice work, making me feel such extreme emotions for a fictional character_




@bibyami

----------


## Sergard

@bibyami




@bibyami

----------


## Sergard

Sdimo



drawing-cookie

_Trick or Treat_

----------


## Sergard

Sae

----------


## dietrich

> Sae


Well this is sad.

----------


## Rise

I'm suprised that no one is talking about it here. The recent rumours about DC shows have gained credibility so there's a likely chance we might get a Red Hood show.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I'm suprised that no one is talking about it here. The recent rumours about DC shows have gained credibility so there's a likely chance we might get a Red Hood show.


As a spinoff of Titans as well. I do wonder about the setup (if Jason does die or something similar) or he chooses the title himself. And what his supporting cast would be like.

As an aside; no Jason mentioned in the end of DCeased. Kind of a shame, so many zombie jokes missed. That said, I would like to see Taylor tackle something that _isn't_ set in such a dark world (Injustice and now DCeased). He does some pretty good characterizations of a lot of characters, including Damian and even Jon.

----------


## RedBird

stariver00

----------


## Jackalope89

I doubt Jason's and Artemis' reunion will go like this, but its still funny.

----------


## Sergard

Dexter Soy

_With All Blades commish #jasontodd #allblades #redhood #shutup_




Also Dexter Soy

Dexter Soy tweet.jpg

----------


## Sergard

@uth69




moon115115

_Trick or Treat_

----------


## Sergard

> I'm suprised that no one is talking about it here. The recent rumours about DC shows have gained credibility so there's a likely chance we might get a Red Hood show.


I've mentioned the rumors not so long ago:




> Rumor: DC preparing a new slate of shows for HBO Max 
> 
> Upcoming DCU, CW & HBO Max DC shows - r/TVLeaks (unverified)
> 
> [...]


But so far there isn't any new information, or? I've skimmed through HBO Max' twitter posts yesterday. Jason Todd/Red Hood wasn't mentioned anywhere.

----------


## Arsenal

Even if a Red Hood spin off show is on the table, we got quite a ways to go before such a thing would see the light of day. I figure any talk of the shoe is just that until Titans properly debuts Hood and TPTB have a chance to see fan response to it.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

DC Gallery's Red Hood figure is up for preorder at BBTS $45 with an ETA of March 2020.

https://www.bigbadtoystore.com/Prod…...Details/105097

Shame that the figure looks so awkward.

----------


## Sergard

> DC Gallery's Red Hood figure is up for preorder at BBTS $45 with an ETA of March 2020.
> [...]
> Shame that the figure looks so awkward.


The empty hand looks like there is a second sword missing.

These angles look a little less awkward.


[IMG]https://cdna.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/019/632/630/large/joe-menna-d-9tejku8aa57wc.jpg?1564362340[/IMG]

[IMG]https://cdnb.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/019/632/631/large/joe-menna-67237220-2379860532127601-7619123007868370944-n.jpg?1564362343[/IMG]

source: Joe Menna

----------


## Sergard

(Same source as above)

[IMG]https://cdnb.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/019/632/633/large/joe-menna-rh-1.jpg?1564362357[/IMG]

[IMG]https://cdnb.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/019/632/635/large/joe-menna-rh-2.jpg?1564362361[/IMG]

----------


## Jackalope89

Yeah, pose is a little awkward.

----------


## Sergard

Jarrulus




kaiitan




_faerie_queene_bex_

----------


## Jackalope89

The last set threw me off for a second, but I like it!

----------


## Sergard

vgmondo (from 2012)





jassus_art





asinoeiv

_DEAD ROBIN CLUB_

----------


## Sergard

inkydandy

_Party crashers
First commission is DONE and I was really stoked that I got a request for Kyle._





inihiu




inihiu

----------


## Sergard

02




@a__v__c__d




@toi139

----------


## Jackalope89

That second to last one, lol. Damian giving Jason the stink eye.

----------


## Sergard

rik

_Halloween batboys go trick and treating_





@bluetost_T

----------


## Sergard

Yolin

_Welcome to the Wayne Manor! Help yourself to a treat, if you dare... I'm wishing you all a fun and spooky #halloween2019
  with lots of delicious treats! 

#batfam #redhood #redrobin #robin #Nightwing (but actually it's Nightspider!)_



_More spookiness at the Wayne manor on this #halloween2019! Watch the episode:_

----------


## Sergard

leadcenobit




And here's some Artemis and Bizarro because we all miss Jason's little family.


symeona.kanellou



Travis Mercer

----------


## Sergard

B.P.(@bthehappyperegrine) (Beastboy and Jason)





symeona.kanellou

----------


## RedBird

02png

_Your sweetest nightmare is here. 🎃🍬_  Colored version

----------


## Zaresh

> 02png
> 
> _Your sweetest nightmare is here._   Colored version


Mmmm... Not a fan of the colouring this time, but the art is still neat. I love a lot of the stuff that has been posted.

----------


## Sergard

I completely forgot about the "Harley Quinn's Villain of the Year" stuff. Red Hood is nominated for "Villain of the Year" and "Comeback Villain of the Year".

*Villain of the Year:*




> Red Hood – As seen in RED HOOD: OUTLAW #37 – After his fellow Outlaws, Artemis and Bizarro, were sucked into a dimensional portal – and his best friend, Arsenal, was murdered – Red Hood struck out on his own, traveling the countryside and meting out his own brand of outlaw justice. But as he started crossing the line from anti-hero to outright villain, he decided to kidnap the Penguin and steal control of the Iceberg Lounge, all before accepting Lex Luthor’s offer to train the next generation of DC super-villain – but for now they’re just kids.


*Comeback Villain of the Year*




> Red Hood – Outlaws no more. Now he’s just THE Outlaw! And he’s doing it all for the kids!

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> I completely forgot about the "Harley Quinn's Villain of the Year" stuff. Red Hood is nominated for "Villain of the Year" and "Comeback Villain of the Year".
> 
> *Villain of the Year:*
> 
> 
> 
> *Comeback Villain of the Year*


I wonder if it is really a poll, casting your vote on every category returns you to the main article from where you can vote all over again.

----------


## Sergard

Dexter Soy

_Red Ronin commish #redronin_

----------


## Sergard

nockuth





AKI





@bibyami

----------


## RedBird

devilrnaycry

_Pumpkin Hood_ 👊😤

----------


## Jackalope89

> Dexter Soy
> 
> _Red Ronin commish #redronin_


That's a scary looking Jason.

----------


## RedBird

glitter_dc






Based on *this* XD

----------


## Rise

> As a spinoff of Titans as well. I do wonder about the setup (if Jason does die or something similar) or he chooses the title himself. And what his supporting cast would be like.


I personally hope it's not related to Titans, but I guess it's unlikely.




> I've mentioned the rumors not so long ago:
> 
> But so far there isn't any new information, or? I've skimmed through HBO Max' twitter posts yesterday. Jason Todd/Red Hood wasn't mentioned anywhere.


I'm talking about the fact that some of these shows in the leak have been confirmed. So, a Red Hood show might indeed be considered by WB.

----------


## Zaresh

> Dexter Soy
> 
> _Red Ronin commish #redronin_


Damn, Dexter, don't make me miss you so hard.

----------


## Sergard

RedRidingHood




Sae

----------


## Sergard

@indigo_93




@onipilot





remina

----------


## Sergard

Kate-Marie




@hh_dingdong





And since I know that we have some Roy Harper fans here, don't miss out on this perfect fanart for Roy's birthday.

Denise Zhang (@DeniseFanta)

----------


## Sergard

M-Alejandrita





noctemq





sumiakita

----------


## RedBird

> Sae



I swear my thoughts just ran a mile a minute and this one took me a second to get. 
Thinking, 'the artist considers a panther to be Jasons animal counterpart and a wolf to be Damians? Hmm, I totally feel like it would be the opposite with Jason as a wolf and Damian as a panth ooooohhhhh, it IS Jason as a wolf with Damian and Damian as a panther with Jason.' Now I get it. Welp, I feel silly.

Beautiful work as usual from this artist and it turns out I totally agree with their animal counterpart choices.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> And since I know that we have some Roy Harper fans here, don't miss out on this perfect fanart for Roy's birthday.
> 
> Denise Zhang (@DeniseFanta)


I can't believe they rather use Cry for Justice Roy than any from N52 or Rebirth.

----------


## K7P5V

> Kate-Marie
> 
> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EILQ0HvX0AEeIfN?format=jpg
> 
> 
> @hh_dingdong
> 
> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EISlllFWkAAB8Lt?format=jpg
> 
> ...


Awesome! I totally dig the Post-Crisis Roy Harper fanart.  :Big Grin:

----------


## Sergard

inkydandy

_A TWIST
Just some more playing around with this not-John-Wick-but-kinda thing._

----------


## Zaresh

> I swear my thoughts just ran a mile a minute and this one took me a second to get. 
> Thinking, 'the artist considers a panther to be Jasons animal counterpart and a wolf to be Damians? Hmm, I totally feel like it would be the opposite with Jason as a wolf and Damian as a panth ooooohhhhh, it IS Jason as a wolf with Damian and Damian as a panther with Jason.' Now I get it. Welp, I feel silly.
> 
> Beautiful work as usual from this artist and it turns out I totally agree with their animal counterpart choices.


Yeah, I guess they're pretty fitting for both (well, I think Jason is more fox-like, a coyote, maybe). And the art is really nice, eye catching, as usual.

Edited like four hours afterwards: I didn't realize I've read a fanfic that used a coyote alongside with Jason, even if it was a separate character who used Jason's Robin looks like some sort of skin/persona. Ha ha, I swear I didn't remember that bit until now. Themes wise (folklore wise, I guess, but I'm not familiar with american mythology. As far as I recall, the tend to be like kitsunes in Japan, and foxes in medieval European folklore. Wikipedia's info seems to go that way), I think that species fits Jason better than a common wolf

----------


## RedBird

More images that apparently came before the other three posted on inkydandy tumblr






_Dumping these sequences here ha

Some more Jason vs The World, but now with a TWIST. Making these look like animation stills is pretty fun! If anything, its a good way of teaching myself how to use color tints to create a mood._

----------


## RedBird

Never mind. My bad.

----------


## RedBird

Ask twitter though and they'll tell ya every character is better as a kitten XD

_nix08





I know it's meant to be the lining of his helmet but I always end up seeing it as a big contented smile.

----------


## RedBird

art_lenore

----------


## Zaresh

> Ask twitter though and they'll tell ya every character is better as a kitten XD
> 
> _nix08
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know it's meant to be the lining of his helmet but I always end up seeing it as a big contented smile.


The AK helmet was even more cat'-like, to the point I cannot unseen a cat mask when I see it.

Well, @RedBird, that was a very thought through post. It's not chessy at all: very late night conversations are a lot of fun when you end up deep into rabbit holes, discussing between geeky friends. I have had some of my most fun ones thag way, so, hey, I can relate xD. And I can see this one perfectly being brought into the table by Robin/Jason fans :3.

----------


## Sergard

Sae

----------


## RedBird

Haha, Longcat

No wait, he would be Tacgnol

----------


## Jackalope89

Jason Todd fanfic time!

https://archiveofourown.org/works/18793915
Precedent, by Cdelphiki, is a re-worked Jason meets Batman origin, with a much more fluffy tone overall (the author insists no one dies in it), though certain things like Jason growing up in the streets and in a bad home, Dick being pissed at Bruce, and *spoilers:*
little Damian getting used to all of it
*end of spoilers* makes for an interesting little story so far.

----------


## RedBird

_'Batman: Under the Red Hood' circa 2019_

----------


## Sergard

@astraea_f





RUSKE




@nockuth

----------


## Sergard

AKI




AKI




Gimik

----------


## Sergard

Gimik

----------


## Sergard

Paolo Pantalena

_Jason Todd is Running over the pages of Red Hood #42 which is currently on my drawing board._

----------


## Sergard

Victor J. Irizarry (@vodlines)



Lebami




Pablo Matheus

----------


## Jackalope89

The last one and first one there, the eyes don't really fit the rest of the art. But otherwise, quite good.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Paolo Pantalena
> 
> _Jason Todd is Running over the pages of Red Hood #42 which is currently on my drawing board._


From the sound of this, he's only for issue 42. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/B35Cv5zihly/

----------


## Sergard

@L6BF0bq6MZyVCOC





ANDY.SZK




DAFFY DEER

----------


## Jackalope89

Here's a question I've wondered about for awhile;

What characters, besides Artemis, Biz, and Red Hood comics exclusive characters, would join up with Jason in the Outlaws? Preferably no one more associated with one of the other Robins (sorry Roy and Star). 
I could maybe see Kid Devil and _maybe_ Rose Wilson. But who else?

----------


## K7P5V

> Here's a question I've wondered about for awhile;
> 
> What characters, besides Artemis, Biz, and Red Hood comics exclusive characters, would join up with Jason in the Outlaws? Preferably no one more associated with one of the other Robins (sorry Roy and Star). 
> I could maybe see Kid Devil and _maybe_ Rose Wilson. But who else?


Definitely Black Adam:

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

First time I'm happy Jason didn't appear on Batman.

----------


## Arsenal

It’s always nice to se Jason skip out on the latest “batfam gets its ass kicked” meeting.

----------


## Jackalope89

> First time I'm happy Jason didn't appear on Batman.


That bad, huh? Glad I dropped Batman then.

----------


## Sergard

Lucy(@Melat0nin1)





K(@kurachi93)




noctemq

----------


## Sergard

Call me Ryan(@freaki_drawing)

_Demon Jason Todd
No one asked for this AU but I will do it regardless xD
Currently I'm working on Tims design. I have 3 more designs in my head and a whole story._






333leaves

_hmmm i think its an interesting story，about Jason and Dick in RPG game，maybe next time ill repaint it to make it better. Anyway its just a practice，i still trying to find ways to improve my pics and express my feelings better☺️yeah，just go for it and become a better person next time_

----------


## Sergard

@missing24seven




minanamiart

----------


## Sergard

source

Art: @victoriapalomino04
Artemis:@keirasera
Bizarro: @megustaguy92
Jason: Cleverfoxes
Photo: @mortproductions

----------


## RedBird

> minanamiart


Oh my goodness that's adorable
It even has the little grave stone

----------


## Jackalope89

> Call me Ryan(@freaki_drawing)
> 
> _Demon Jason Todd
> No one asked for this AU but I will do it regardless xD
> Currently I'm working on Tims design. I have 3 more designs in my head and a whole story._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Demon? The first ones remind me of the Qunari from the Dragon Age series, particularly Inquisition where you could have a Qunari with horns almost exactly like that.

----------


## Sergard

Louie Jr Photos

_Cosplay vs comic.

Trying recreate the cover of the Dceased with red hood instead of batman.

Red hood @bunnysyncosplay

Zombies
Joker @costumedactivist
Batman @nyc_caped_crusader
Nightwing @justwhelmed_cosplay
Catwoman @spidachick69

Dceased shoot organized by @costumedactivist_

----------


## Zaresh

Damn. I've just read the latest issue of Deathstroke. The current version of Joseph could be such a nice addition to the  Outlaws... He could bring a very interesting contrast to Jason.




> minanamiart


Awwwww, cute :3.

----------


## RedBird

> Damn. I've just read the latest issue of Deathstroke. The current version of Joseph could be such a nice addition to the  Outlaws... He could bring a very interesting contrast to Jason.


I've been thinking that too, I mean I already had prior thoughts that Rose would make a neat addition to the outlaws, still do, but now Joey is also turning out to be a really decent candidate as well. 

And on that note...





> Here's a question I've wondered about for awhile;
> 
> What characters, besides Artemis, Biz, and Red Hood comics exclusive characters, would join up with Jason in the Outlaws? Preferably no one more associated with one of the other Robins (sorry Roy and Star). 
> I could maybe see Kid Devil and _maybe_ Rose Wilson. But who else?


Besides Rebirth Deathstroke, as of late I have also been catching up with Rebirth Flash, and if the sleek as hell costume design, name, and general/vague description of a 'once good guy, now, murderer desperately seeking redemption' didn't already convince me, then delving into August Hearts story for myself has me definitely on board with Godspeed as an outlaws candidate.

----------


## Zaresh

> I've been thinking that too, I mean I already had prior thoughts that Rose would make a neat addition to the outlaws, still do, but now Joey is also turning out to be a really decent candidate as well. 
> 
> And on that note...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Besides Rebirth Deathstroke, as of late I have also been catching up with Rebirth Flash, and if the sleek as hell costume design, name, and general/vague description of a 'once good guy, now, murderer desperately seeking redemption' didn't already convince me, then delving into August Hearts story for myself has me definitely on board with Godspeed as an outlaws candidate.


Huh, I guess I should catch up with Flash.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I've been thinking that too, I mean I already had prior thoughts that Rose would make a neat addition to the outlaws, still do, but now Joey is also turning out to be a really decent candidate as well. 
> 
> And on that note...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Besides Rebirth Deathstroke, as of late I have also been catching up with Rebirth Flash, and if the sleek as hell costume design, name, and general/vague description of a 'once good guy, now, murderer desperately seeking redemption' didn't already convince me, then delving into August Hearts story for myself has me definitely on board with Godspeed as an outlaws candidate.


Forgot about August Heart. He would make for an interesting speedster to have on the Outlaws. One wanting to do good, but willing to take that extra step that Barry just isn't and all.

----------


## RedBird

> Huh, I guess I should catch up with Flash.


If you already like Flash and wanna read for Barry then go for it, but I will admit the title is hard to recommend if you're just in it for August. He is prominently at the beginning arc and then speckled through the title at only a couple of various points. Suffice to say, he is not in the title enough to justify the purchase of like a 80+ comic series, (unless of course you can get a friends copy or a copy from your local library). That being said, if you do happen to read the first arc and decide you want to see more content just for August, I believe I made a list whilst reading of which issues he specifically appeared in. I'm happy to let you know once I find it XD

If you're just wondering why I am more so convinced of August as a candidate, as I had mentioned in the previous post, I just really warmed to his personality and whilst he is shown to be very remorseful, his backstory doesn't shy away from the awful crimes he commits, it doesn't 'soften the blow' as much, so to speak.

----------


## RedBird

The cosplayer in that DCEASED tweet mentioned that Tom Taylor first noticed them on instagram, so I went to their instagram where they're also hosting images of this photoshoot, and well....





Dammit Tom, stop with the teasing  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Sergard

David Messina

_...ready for the fight!_

----------


## Zaresh

> If you already like Flash and wanna read for Barry then go for it, but I will admit the title is hard to recommend if you're just in it for August. He is prominently at the beginning arc and then speckled through the title at only a couple of various points. Suffice to say, he is not in the title enough to justify the purchase of like a 80+ comic series, (unless of course you can get a friends copy or a copy from your local library). That being said, if you do happen to read the first arc and decide you want to see more content just for August, I believe I made a list whilst reading of which issues he specifically appeared in. I'm happy to let you know once I find it XD
> 
> If you're just wondering why I am more so convinced of August as a candidate, as I had mentioned in the previous post, I just really warmed to his personality and whilst he is shown to be very remorseful, his backstory doesn't shy away from the awful crimes he commits, it doesn't 'soften the blow' as much, so to speak.


Nah, libraries here only purchase trades and hardcovers. Even worst: mostly only hardcovers. Trades are also the standard for most comics nowadays. So, unless I read digital—like I do with a (very) few each month—, my way of adding comic books to my shelves is when they're collected into trades.

I read this Rebirth Flash until just when the whole arc with August turning bad was about to end, and dropped the book (which means that my memories of him are that he was pretty much without redeemable qualities). The book kind of bored me and I've only glanced a few bits since then. I like Flash; but to be honest, Williamson's way of writing isn't for me* in that book, and I'm not really interested in Barry. I'm a Wally fan though. But if they ended doing something with August that wasn't turning him in another policeman that went evil, I dunno; I'm a sucker for stories about redemption when their characters are shown remorseful.

But for what you say, they really didn't do* a lot with him, so, eh... Maybe I'll wait more, and ask someone whenever I do decide to read it (edit: It's Flash: eventually, someone is going to have those).

----------


## RedBird

> Nah, libraries here only purchase trades and hardcovers. Even worst: mostly only hardcovers. Trades are also the standard for most comics nowadays. So, unless I read digital—like I do with a (very) few each month—, my way of adding comic books to my shelves is when they're collected into trades.
> 
> I read this Rebirth Flash until just when the whole arc with August turning bad was about to end, and dropped the book (which means that my memories of him are that he was pretty much without redeemable qualities). The book kind of bored me and I've only glanced a few bits since then. I like Flash; but to be honest, Williamson's way of writing isn't for me me in that book, and I'm not really interested in Barry. I'm a Wally fan though. But if they ended doing something with August that wasn't turning him in another policeman that went evil, I dunno; I'm a sucker for stories about redemption when their characters are shown remorseful.
> 
> But for what you say, they really didn't do* a lot with him, so, eh... Maybe I'll wait more, and ask someone whenever I do decide to read it.


Yeah if you're not a fan of Williamson's writing or of Barry, then I agree, I wouldn't bother with the title. But, if anything prominent for August comes up, I'll let you know, especially any redemption.

----------


## Zaresh

> Yeah if you're not a fan of Williamson's writing or of Barry, then I agree, I wouldn't bother with the title. But, if anything prominent for August comes up, I'll let you know, especially any redemption.


Oh, that'd be nice. Thanks a lot!

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> David Messina
> 
> _...ready for the fight!_


Hi Zangief.

----------


## RedBird

> Hi Zangief.


Bizarro, you are Bad Guy, but this does not mean you are _bad_ guy

XD

----------


## Zaresh

> Hi Zangief.


Oh.
OH.

I can't believe I didn't see that before. Soooo... SF, MK... Artemis for Soul Calibur?Because the axe, I mean.

----------


## dietrich

welcome-home-son

https://doc-squash.tumblr.com

----------


## Sergard

illusionistthief




illusionistthief




zumaon

----------


## Sergard

Oviya Vendan (@bluemist_72)

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I love that N52 and Rebirth have become Jason's go-to appearances in fanart, marketing, and guest appearances.

----------


## Sergard

Tom Taylor

Tom Taylor teasing.jpg

----------


## RedBird

> Oviya Vendan (@bluemist_72)


Oooooooh I like this one, I like it a lot

The artists style is really nice.

Also, it kinda looks like a semi realistic depiction of Dexter Soy's Jason.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I love that N52 and Rebirth have become Jason's go-to appearances in fanart, marketing, and guest appearances.


Only real difference; the fanart STILL wants the white streak. lol

----------


## Arsenal

Post FP Jason has almost completely became the version of Jason in all ways except the hair. Fan artists got a vice grip on that white streak and it doesnt seem like itll loosen up anytime soon.

----------


## Rac7d*

Red hood is getting his own show on dcuniverse

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Red hood is getting his own show on dcuniverse


Source of that?

----------


## K7P5V

> Oooooooh I like this one, I like it a lot
> 
> The artists style is really nice.
> 
> Also, it kinda looks like a semi realistic depiction of Dexter Soy's Jason.


Also, bears a striking resemblance to Ethan Hunt.  :Big Grin:

----------


## Rac7d*

> Source of that?


https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.red..._max_dc_shows/

----------


## Zaresh

> Also, bears a striking resemblance to Ethan Hunt.


Soy's Jason always resembled a young Tom Cruise for me, so it makes sense I guess.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.red..._max_dc_shows/


Oh, that leak/rumor. I won't believe it until is not official.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Oh, that leak/rumor. I won't believe it until is not official.


Well, a few of those have already been confirmed, most notably the CW Superman and Lois series.

----------


## Arsenal

Even if the report is true and a show is in the works, I still think it’ll be a few years before we hear anything about it.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Even if the report is true and a show is in the works, I still think it’ll be a few years before we hear anything about it.


Probably at least another season, depending on Titans right now.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Well, a few of those have already been confirmed, most notably the CW Superman and Lois series.


And we have many films "confirmed" that never leave development hell. So yeah.

----------


## Sergard

Javechan(@starlightdevil)





Javechan(@starlightdevil)

----------


## Sergard

Mario Foccillo





Mario Foccillo

----------


## Sergard

Mario Foccillo




Mario Foccillo

----------


## Sergard

Romina Jones

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Mario Foccillo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mario Foccillo


Inspector Gadget Red Hood?

I do like the similarities to Medri's design though.

----------


## Sergard

abisalli




uko smith

----------


## Sergard

Camron Johnson




@spvmante




AKIO

----------


## Sergard

Awesome Red Hood and Talon cosplay:

Jordan J Wilson

_Amazing shots by Andy Maroki of my #RedHood and @disfusional
 #Talon of #theCourtofOwls #taloncosplay #redhoodcosplay @DCComics
 @TheDCUniverse
 #cosplay @ShareMyCosplay
 @TITANSofCOSPLAY
 #Batman_

----------


## Zaresh

> Awesome Red Hood and Talon cosplay:
> 
> Jordan J Wilson
> 
> _Amazing shots by Andy Maroki of my #RedHood and @disfusional
>  #Talon of #theCourtofOwls #taloncosplay #redhoodcosplay @DCComics
>  @TheDCUniverse
>  #cosplay @ShareMyCosplay
>  @TITANSofCOSPLAY
>  #Batman_


I know that the filters help a lot, but, darn, those are very good shots on very good cosplays O.O

----------


## Sergard

karen(@maple_DC)

----------


## Sergard

Amone




Kris (@solstiis)




losaf.

----------


## Sergard

Freddy Williams II




voidmash

----------


## Jackalope89



----------


## Sergard

More amazing Red Hood cosplay photos:

Jordan J Wilson

_I love cosplaying #redhood / I try to do a traditional comic book look, with a tv/film feel to it. I really miss his bad boy days. @TheDCUniverse
 @DCComics
 Thank you @JuddWinick
 for this character! 
 #cosplay @ShareMyCosplay
 @TITANSofCOSPLAY_

----------


## Sergard

Jordan J Wilson



And in the comment section:

jude winick comment on twitter cosplay.jpg

----------


## Sergard

Sae

----------


## Sergard

Sae




Fade

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> More amazing Red Hood cosplay photos:
> 
> Jordan J Wilson
> 
> _I love cosplaying #redhood / I try to do a traditional comic book look, with a tv/film feel to it. I really miss his bad boy days. @TheDCUniverse
>  @DCComics
>  Thank you @JuddWinick
>  for this character! 
>  #cosplay @ShareMyCosplay
>  @TITANSofCOSPLAY_


I find pretty ironic the way he says he misses Jason's times as a villain and thanks Judd Winnick, and yet he's cosplaying Lobdell's version instead of Winnick's.

----------


## Sergard

RENE




Sara Barra (@Hellredsky)




Whispering Imp

----------


## Sergard

inkydandy

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Issue 39 had a noticeable drop

152. RED HOOD OUTLAW #39 (DC) - 17,614 [158]

----------


## Arsenal

Wonder if the return of the Trinity will give the book a boost in sales.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Wonder if the return of the Trinity will give the book a boost in sales.


It might. I have run across a number of people that dropped it when Artemis and Biz were split off from Jason. Word just needs to get out there.

----------


## Zaresh

> Issue 39 had a noticeable drop
> 
> 152. RED HOOD OUTLAW #39 (DC) - 17,614 [158]


Damn :/ This doesn't look good.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Wonder if the return of the Trinity will give the book a boost in sales.





> It might. I have run across a number of people that dropped it when Artemis and Biz were split off from Jason. Word just needs to get out there.


Considering how low the sales of the annual that had Artemis in Bizarroas leads, I doubt it will be a significant bump.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Considering how low the sales of the annual that had Artemis in Bizarroas leads, I doubt it will be a significant bump.


Those same people had no idea that Artemis and Biz were in it though. And considering DC has done jack-all to promote Red Hood and the Outlaws...

----------


## Arsenal

> Considering how low the sales of the annual that had Artemis in Bizarroas leads, I doubt it will be a significant bump.


To be honest, I don’t expect anything outside of a relaunch to give the book a sales significant boost at this point. Still, I wouldn’t be surprised if their initial return adds few thousand sales either.

----------


## RedBird

fishtre

_Taken by Alfred for his personal collection._

----------


## Aahz

> Issue 39 had a noticeable drop
> 
> 152. RED HOOD OUTLAW #39 (DC) - 17,614 [158]


I think there will be anayway some event followed by a line wide relaunch soon. We just have to hope that RHatO will be part of that relaunch, sales of most of the smaller titels are quite low. Even Wonder Woman is current ly just arround 28K.

----------


## RedBird

The hood. The chest symbol. The gun. Is that who I think it is?

DCeased Unkillables

Tom Taylor

----------


## Jackalope89

So Jason is alive. YES!

----------


## Arsenal

It’s nice to see Jason front and center on a big DC book. Even if it’s just the cover of DC Zombies.

----------


## Zaresh

> So Jason is alive. YES!


Eh, he looks very zombish, I think.

----------


## Sergard

Sae




@yosuga0101





And since there are some Damian fans in this thread: Seems like Yasmine Putri is working on a cover with Damian on it at the moment.

Yasmine Putri

----------


## Jackalope89

> Eh, he looks very zombish, I think.


Nah, that's just his inner zombie. He started a book club with some of the others.

----------


## Arsenal

https://www.cbr.com/brian-michael-be...han-interview/

New interview about the fallout of Event: Leviathan. Here's the parts that we care about**:

"Yeah, any character that was touched by this story, there's going to be fallout from," Bendis explained. "This mystery is solved but, past the mystery, a lot has happened. They were semi-successful in their quest that Leviathan has arrived and is now a power in the DC Universe and that comes with a major shift in how everyone's doing business; so that's number one. Everyone also has to deal with the fact that Leviathan set some of them up, *like, why does the Red Hood get set up for shit like this? And that does eat at the character but also lets the character know 'You have a job here. You have to take care of Leviathan because they are coming after you and they've made that very clear and they're doing the opposite of what you want in the world.'"*

"As far as Jason goes, I will say I did the most research of all the characters on Jason because I wanted the red herring to be honest and, at the same time, respectful to the character and have the character walk away as almost one of the big heroes of the story," he continued. "If you really look at it, he kind of walks away the most unscathed and it certainly points Jason in the direction of what he has to do next."

TLDR: Sounds like the events of E:L are going to have some sort of impact on Jason going forward, be it in his book or others.

----------


## Sergard

taro_wong

----------


## Sergard

taro_wong

----------


## Jackalope89

> https://www.cbr.com/brian-michael-be...han-interview/
> 
> New interview about the fallout of Event: Leviathan. Here's the parts that we care about**:
> 
> "Yeah, any character that was touched by this story, there's going to be fallout from," Bendis explained. "This mystery is solved but, past the mystery, a lot has happened. They were semi-successful in their quest that Leviathan has arrived and is now a power in the DC Universe and that comes with a major shift in how everyone's doing business; so that's number one. Everyone also has to deal with the fact that Leviathan set some of them up, *like, why does the Red Hood get set up for shit like this? And that does eat at the character but also lets the character know 'You have a job here. You have to take care of Leviathan because they are coming after you and they've made that very clear and they're doing the opposite of what you want in the world.'"*
> 
> "As far as Jason goes, I will say I did the most research of all the characters on Jason because I wanted the red herring to be honest and, at the same time, respectful to the character and have the character walk away as almost one of the big heroes of the story," he continued. "If you really look at it, he kind of walks away the most unscathed and it certainly points Jason in the direction of what he has to do next."
> 
> TLDR: Sounds like the events of E:L are going to have some sort of impact on Jason going forward, be it in his book or others.


Bendis didn't downplay Jason, at least. I give him that. But, he also wrote his voice pretty generic. Which is better than Damian's and Talia's, but that's not saying much.

That said; no. I don't want Bendis taking over Jason at any point.

----------


## Sergard

@artby_theinnercircle





LAUren

----------


## Sergard

Finalized cover of Red Hood: Outlaw #40

----------


## CPSparkles

> The hood. The chest symbol. The gun. Is that who I think it is?
> 
> DCeased Unkillables
> 
> Tom Taylor


Looking forward to this. I was curious what happened to Jason in DCeased after being teased so much

----------


## CPSparkles

> Sae
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @yosuga0101
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ilove her art and at this point she will have done all 4 main robins

----------


## RedBird

_Same cover but with more pieces revealed._

----------


## RedBird

> https://www.cbr.com/brian-michael-be...han-interview/
> 
> New interview about the fallout of Event: Leviathan. Here's the parts that we care about**:
> 
> "Yeah, any character that was touched by this story, there's going to be fallout from," Bendis explained. "This mystery is solved but, past the mystery, a lot has happened. They were semi-successful in their quest that Leviathan has arrived and is now a power in the DC Universe and that comes with a major shift in how everyone's doing business; so that's number one. Everyone also has to deal with the fact that Leviathan set some of them up, *like, why does the Red Hood get set up for shit like this? And that does eat at the character but also lets the character know 'You have a job here. You have to take care of Leviathan because they are coming after you and they've made that very clear and they're doing the opposite of what you want in the world.'"*
> 
> "As far as Jason goes, I will say I did the most research of all the characters on Jason because I wanted the red herring to be honest and, at the same time, respectful to the character and have the character walk away as almost one of the big heroes of the story," he continued. "If you really look at it, he kind of walks away the most unscathed and it certainly points Jason in the direction of what he has to do next."
> 
> TLDR: Sounds like the events of E:L are going to have some sort of impact on Jason going forward, be it in his book or others.


Cool.

I mean I remember thinking that Jason sounded (comparatively) the most in-character out of everyone in the title, and now it feels obvious as to why.

I don't think the power of actually researching a character can be understated, and in this instance, I do appreciate that Bendis actually took the time for it. 
Whether you think he actually 'nailed the character' or not is another matter entirely, but at the very least, he clearly attempted to be both true to the character and in his own words, '_respectful_'. At least in Jasons case, I'll give kudos for that.

Now going forth I wonder if Bendis is simply being a little flowery by saying that this event impacted Jason, or if that means Bendis himself is going to write some kind of sequel to further expand into this. Not sure how I feel about that.

----------


## Rise

Well, I did like what Bendis has done with Jason and I wouldn't mind seeing him writing a mini with him someday because his Batman series has been great.

I'm glad to see more writers interested in writing Jason compared to few years ago where hardly anyone cared besides Lobdell. Now we have three jokers, white knight vol 3 and DCeased 2 to look forward to.

----------


## RedBird

> Well, I did like what Bendis has done with Jason and I wouldn't mind seeing him writing a mini with him someday


If it's something outside the Leviathan narrative, then I definitely wanna see Bendis write a mini for Jason, especially now since he has already done his research. I'm super curious how he'll approach the character when he isn't being used in a story as a device for another overarching narrative, but more so to something akin to a character study, like Red Hood Lost Days.





> because his Batman series has been great.


Batman Universe right? That one has been so surprisingly enjoyable, I only picked it up on a whim and now it's one of my few monthly titles. Bendis's Bruce in that series feels......for lack of a better word. Younger? He feels like Batman earlier in his career, I don't know if that is what Bendis was actually going for, but regardless the series is pretty fun.

----------


## RedBird

crocodyson

----------


## Arsenal

Official synopsis of DCeased: Unkillable

  "The blockbuster DC series returns to answer this question: What did the villains do when the heroes failed and the world ended?

Spinning out of the dramatic events of 2019’s smash hit, writer Tom Taylor returns to this dark world with a street-level tale of death, heroism and redemption. Led by Red Hood and Deathstroke, DC’s hardest villains and antiheroes fight with no mercy to save the only commodity left on a dying planet of the undead—life!"

Will go from Feb 2020 to April 2020.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

The solicit

DCEASED: UNKILLABLES #1
written by Tom Taylor
art by Karl Mostert and Trevor Scott
cover by Howard Porter
card stock variant cover by Francesco Mattina
The blockbuster DC series returns to answer this question: What did the villains do when the heroes failed and the world ended?
Spinning out of the dramatic events of 2019’s smash hit, writer Tom Taylor returns to this dark world with a street-level tale of death, heroism and redemption. Led by Red Hood and Deathstroke, DC’s hardest villains and antiheroes fight with no mercy to save the only commodity left on a dying planet of the undead—life!
3 ISSUES: ON SALE FEBRUARY – APRIL 2020
$4.99 US (CARD STOCK VARIANT COVERS $5.99)
48 PAGES EACH

And a few covers

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

So happy about them using the classic costume instead of Wood's bootleg ninja.

Reposting for new page

DCEASED: UNKILLABLES #1
written by Tom Taylor
art by Karl Mostert and Trevor Scott
cover by Howard Porter
card stock variant cover by Francesco Mattina
The blockbuster DC series returns to answer this question: What did the villains do when the heroes failed and the world ended?
Spinning out of the dramatic events of 2019’s smash hit, writer Tom Taylor returns to this dark world with a street-level tale of death, heroism and redemption. Led by Red Hood and Deathstroke, DC’s hardest villains and antiheroes fight with no mercy to save the only commodity left on a dying planet of the undead—life!
3 ISSUES: ON SALE FEBRUARY – APRIL 2020
$4.99 US (CARD STOCK VARIANT COVERS $5.99)
48 PAGES EACH

----------


## Arsenal

I really like that cover with Rose, Jason & Cass. It’s probably my favorite of the bunch though the first teaser one is a close second.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

This bit from Newsarama, though

"DCeased creator Tom Taylor is returning to write this series, joined by *recent Red Hood: Outlaw artist Karl Mostert.*"

Did they just spoil Mostert as the new main artist for RHATO?

----------


## Arsenal

Has Mostert done any Red Hood: Outlaw interior work yet? I thought it was limited to just variant covers so far.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Has Mostert done any Red Hood: Outlaw interior work yet? I thought it was limited to just variant covers so far.


Nope! So I'm guessing he will be doing the art for issue 43 at the very least.

Here are some samples of his work 

https://www.**********.com/kamo_1981

https://twitter.com/kamo_1981

With all due respect to him, his work looks like a bargain bin Chris Burnham, not a style I'm particularly fond of.

----------


## Zaresh

They keep branding him as a villain...
I wonder what they think an antihero is, honestly. Or if they think they're the same thing.

Unless the villain part was because of Deathstroke.

Which, nevermind, it must be that. Yeah. I guess I'm just too sick to read properly.

Edit: Mostert art seems fine, but he needs a good colourist. Half the pieces in that page don't look the best they can because their colour isn't very flattering, imho. Remember that DCeased variant cover we had for RHATO: good colours, looked nice. It's not an artstyle I like a lot, but I don't mind either.

----------


## Jackalope89

> They keep branding him as a villain...
> I wonder what they think an antihero is, honestly. Or if they think they're the same thing.
> 
> Unless the villain part was because of Deathstroke.
> 
> Which, nevermind, it must be that. Yeah. I guess I'm just too sick to read properly.


I know sometimes Jason gets labeled as an antihero, sometimes it has merit. Slade is a villain, so that works. But how is Cass either one of those? She's a straight up hero.

----------


## Arsenal

> I know sometimes Jason gets labeled as an antihero, sometimes it has merit. Slade is a villain, so that works. But how is Cass either one of those? She's a straight up hero.


For all we know, Cass only appearance in the series will be that variant cover.

----------


## Zaresh

> Bendis didn't downplay Jason, at least. I give him that. But, he also wrote his voice pretty generic. Which is better than Damian's and Talia's, but that's not saying much.
> 
> That said; no. I don't want Bendis taking over Jason at any point.


Yeah, hard to believe I'm not going to blame him for murdering another of my faves (yay!). Heck, I can't even say that Event Leviatan is bad, just readable despite being a mystery that could've been solved in just 3 or 4 issues. Now, what has really surprised me in the wrong sense is how much of a lackbuster JY is. It's directionless, the story isn't engaging either, the characters are merely there, he's pushing all the OCs a lot without giving the classic characters much time to hook old readers or people who knew the team previously, and... and it's boring. A YJ book that is boring. I can't believe it. Teens or drama aren't even the weakest points of his work (team books are, though, and epic stories); it's been a big bummer for me.

----------


## Zaresh

> I know sometimes Jason gets labeled as an antihero, sometimes it has merit. Slade is a villain, so that works. But how is Cass either one of those? She's a straight up hero.


She's an antihero by more classic standards, she's kind of byronic, so to speak. Not as much as Jason or even Bruce, but there're some traits in her story. I agree in that she's pretty straight heroic, but people tend to picture what an hero is in comic by the Superman standard,

(Sorry for my double post. I tend to read from new to older and was reading two pages ago when I posted my previous post).

----------


## Ssstammerer

I miss them already. 🤭

My Jason Todd/Red Hood collection is currently displayed at SM City Sta. Mesa for the 80th anniversary of Batman! Come visit us! 🦇

#JasonToddPH #RedHoodPH #TheDarkKnightPH #LongLiveTheBat #Batman80th #Batman80Years #EveryDayIsPlayDayAtSM

----------


## RedBird

> The solicit
> 
> DCEASED: UNKILLABLES #1
> written by Tom Taylor
> art by Karl Mostert and Trevor Scott
> cover by Howard Porter
> card stock variant cover by Francesco Mattina
> The blockbuster DC series returns to answer this question: What did the villains do when the heroes failed and the world ended?
> Spinning out of the dramatic events of 2019’s smash hit, writer Tom Taylor returns to this dark world with a street-level tale of death, heroism and redemption. Led by Red Hood and Deathstroke, DC’s hardest villains and antiheroes fight with no mercy to save the only commodity left on a dying planet of the undead—life!
> ...


Woah!!

So straight up Jasons not just in it, he is THE face of the series, the Leader? Along with Deathstroke?!
And they're desperately fighting for the remaining living??

It's like Tom Taylor read my mind for what I would absolutely LOVE! 
This concept could not be more perfect.

Wait scratch that, the solicit didn't mention them, but if Rose and Cass are also joining Jason? Then yes, yes this concept could indeed be more perfect

Wow

I need those covers

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Better pics

Unkillables #1 Red Hood Portrait Card Stock Variant by Francesco Mattina $5.99


Unkillables #2 Main Cover by Howard Porter $4.99


Unkillables #2 Horror Movie Homage Card Stock Variant by Ben Oliver $5.99

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Unkillables #3 Main Cover by Howard Porter $4.99

----------


## Arsenal

Im surprised the main covers for 2 & 3 are out but not 1.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Ah, is out. Is just that it doesn't feature Jason.

----------


## Arsenal

Oh. Well, I suppose 2 out of 3 ain't bad.

----------


## RedBird

For anyone curious by the way, the Horror movie homage being used in this cover is from _Kubricks 1987_ *'Full Metal Jacket'*.

Unkillables #2 Horror Movie Homage Card Stock Variant by Ben Oliver $5.99

----------


## Sergard

Curran Walters

_straight chillin. Mood going into season 3._



Does that mean Jason isn't part of season 3 - or am I misinterpreting the post?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

RED HOOD: OUTLAW #43
written by SCOTT LOBDELL
art by CHRISCROSS and SCOTT HANNA
cover by DAN MORA
variant cover by PHILIP TAN and MARC DEERING
We’re living in strange times! Magic and metahumans are everywhere, but good and evil are easy to spot—right? The heroes of the world would never let anything happen to it…unless it happened already. Red Hood and the Outlaws are about to discover that the line between moral and immoral is very thin indeed.
ON SALE 02.26.20
$3.99 US | 32 PAGES
FC | DC
This issue will ship with two covers.
Please see the order form for details.





Isabel!

----------


## Arsenal

3 things:

1. Is that Glass’ Batbox?

2. Artemis got her hair back. 

3. I’m glad that Biz seemingly isn’t getting his old suit back.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> 3 things:
> 
> 1. Is that Glass’ Batbox?


Is not, is the sword where Essence is trapped.

----------


## Arsenal

> Is not, is the sword where Essence is trapped.


That makes a lot more sense. All the talk of magic made me wonder if that was going to be addressed but I was a tad to quick to dismiss it. 

Any idea who the blonde is supposed to see?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> That makes a lot more sense. All the talk of magic made me wonder if that was going to be addressed but I was a tad to quick to dismiss it. 
> 
> Any idea who the blonde is supposed to see?


The blonde is Isabel, Jason's on and off girlfriend, and she's seeing Essence's trapped in the blade.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/behind...ans-second-son

Interesting read about the genesis of the original Under the Hood.

----------


## Zaresh

> RED HOOD: OUTLAW #43
> written by SCOTT LOBDELL
> art by CHRISCROSS and SCOTT HANNA
> cover by DAN MORA
> variant cover by PHILIP TAN and MARC DEERING
> We’re living in strange times! Magic and metahumans are everywhere, but good and evil are easy to spot—right? The heroes of the world would never let anything happen to it…unless it happened already. Red Hood and the Outlaws are about to discover that the line between moral and immoral is very thin indeed.
> ON SALE 02.26.20
> $3.99 US | 32 PAGES
> FC | DC
> ...


I like where this is going, even if it looks like it's ending the run.

----------


## Jackalope89

Still though, art promo pages are like cover pages; they don't really reflect what's happening in the issue itself. Usually, at least.

----------


## Katana500

> I like where this is going, even if it looks like it's ending the run.


What makes you think the run is going to end?  :Frown:

----------


## Zaresh

> What makes you think the run is going to end?


I don't know, couldn't put my finger on anything. But maybe... that it looks like Lobdell is tieing loose ends? Yeah, it may be that. We have the thing with Essence in the sword, the theme of lines between moral and inmoral that's been there flying low since the first issue, Isabel's whereabouts and fate... It will probably feature the teens too, and I wonder, maybe Miguel will appear in the last moment too, in the following issues. 

I don't know, just a feel.

----------


## Katana500

> I don't know, couldn't put my finger on anything. But maybe... that it looks like Lobdell is tieing loose ends? Yeah, it may be that. We have the thing with Essence in the sword, the theme of lines between moral and inmoral that's been there flying low since the first issue, Isabel's whereabouts and fate... It will probably feature the teens too, and I wonder, maybe Miguel will appear in the last moment too, in the following issues. 
> 
> I don't know, just a feel.


I feel like a good time to relaunch Red Hood and probably Batgirl too would be after Three Jokers concludes. Since I have a feeling that will be a massive story which might make people alot more interested in the character.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I don't know, couldn't put my finger on anything. But maybe... that it looks like Lobdell is tieing loose ends? Yeah, it may be that. We have the thing with Essence in the sword, the theme of lines between moral and inmoral that's been there flying low since the first issue, Isabel's whereabouts and fate... It will probably feature the teens too, and I wonder, maybe Miguel will appear in the last moment too, in the following issues. 
> 
> I don't know, just a feel.


Isabella's "fate" was that she was in her home when Jason dropped off Dog for her on his way out of Gotham just before the current arc began.

----------


## Arsenal

Tying up loose ends while creating new ones has practically been Lobdell’s MO throughout the entire run so I wouldn’t say that’s necessarily a sign that things are coming to a close soon. I do think the new arc will finally resolve the Papa Todd storyline before moving on to th Leviathan aftermath stuff that’s supposably coming. 

I’m also kind of surprised that the book is still being called Red Hood: Outlaw instead of returning to RHATO (despite the fact that it’s back to RHATO on comiXology)

----------


## Zaresh

> Isabella's "fate" was that she was in her home when Jason dropped off Dog for her on his way out of Gotham just before the current arc began.


True, but it seemed like she was going to become a recurring character, even if her showing up would be sparse. For me, I mean.

As I said, it's just a feel. Wouldn't be rare that I was wrong, happens all the time \o/.

----------


## Sergard

Bizarro is on the _The Terrifics_ #25 cover.






> written by GENE LUEN YANG
> art and cover by DAN MORA
> variant cover by MICHAEL CHO
> Choose your fate, choose your action, choose your destiny! In this special extra-sized 25th issue, Michael Holt has dis-covered a deadly hidden enemy, and only a series of life-or-death simulations can bring the threat to the forefront! But when Mr. Terrific lies to his team, how can they trust him again? Dont miss this epic multi-path journey that puts you, the reader, in charge of the story! Pick your ending, but choose wisely! The Terrifics team hangs in the balance!
> ON SALE 02.12.20
> $4.99 US | 40 PAGES

----------


## Aahz

> I feel like a good time to relaunch Red Hood and probably Batgirl too would be after Three Jokers concludes. Since I have a feeling that will be a massive story which might make people alot more interested in the character.


I expect them to do a line wide relaunch quite soon. They will probably after Year of the villain concludes and Snyder wraps up his Justice League run.

----------


## Aahz

> Bizarro is on the _The Terrifics_ #25 cover.


Jason also, he is behind Joker.

----------


## Sergard

> Jason also, he is behind Joker.


You have eyes like a hawk.


Sharing the following so that people have an idea how the interior art style of Unkillables will look like:

Karl Mostert

_Some inspirational Art Pin up i did a while back after reading #DCeased  and after finding out i landed the interior Art Job for  #Unkillables #WonderWoman #Deathstroke #Zombies #DC_

----------


## Jackalope89

A gun and sword.

Really doesn't narrow it down much, except for counting out Cass and too masculine of a body for Rose. So, Slade or Jason.

----------


## Arsenal

Slade’s in the hashtag and Jason’s not so my guess is Slade.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Going by his words, is just a pin-up and it doesn't reflect anything from the story.

----------


## Rac7d*

Jason Todd is a theater nerd confirmed

What in the Disney channel was that

----------


## RedBird

> https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/behind...ans-second-son
> 
> Interesting read about the genesis of the original Under the Hood.


*VERY interesting. In fact, I know it's super long but I'm gonna post it here. Sorry about the length but this is one of the more extensive interviews behind the creation and the creators of UTRH. Thanks for the link Dark*



_The creative history of Jason Todd, the second character to hold the mantle of Robin the Boy Wonder, is best told in three parts. Beginnings (yes, there are more than one), middle (which is really an ending), and rebirth. To tell that complicated story, SYFY WIRE has enlisted the help of Paul Levitz, editor Bob Schreck, writer Judd Winick, and artist Doug Mahnke to help chart the evolution of Jason from Robin to Red Hood._

_Jason Todd was at first the second Robin, taking over after Bruce Wayne's original partner, Dick Grayson, dropped the mantle and eventually became Nightwing. When he first appeared as Robin in Batman #368 in 1984, Jason was introduced as more or less a carbon copy of Grayson; he had a circus acrobat background, was orphaned by criminals, taken in by Bruce Wayne, etc. A year later, though, everything changed when DC published Crisis on Infinite Earths.

The event served as a creative reset of the DC Universe, allowing for contemporary retellings of the origin stories of many of DC's flagship characters. This was the bedrock on which writer Frank Miller and artist David Mazzucchelli's classic storyline Batman: Year One was built. With this new take on Batman also came a new take on the second Robin. This post-Crisis version (first appearing in Batman #408) of Robin was as far removed, personality-wise, from any version of Dick Grayson or Jason Todd readers had previously known.

This Jason Todd was still an orphaned street kid, but one Bruce caught in the midst of committing an incredibly dumb petty crime: Boosting the tires off the Batmobile.

Street smart and a quick study, Jason quickly stepped into Robin's tights. But he wasn't the squeaky clean hero of yesteryear; the writers of this new Jason also leaned into his mean streak, with Jason embodying both an anger and an emptiness that expressed themselves as a razor-sharp edge that was troubling to both Batman and fans of Robin alike. So during a storyline that ran through the Batman title A Death in the Family by writer Jim Starlin and artist Jim Aparo, DC took the unprecedented step of allowing fans (who had voiced their displeasure for this darker turn to the Robin character with many letters to the DC offices) to call in to a hotline that would allow then to decide the fate of the new Robin. The phone line wasn't the first for DC._



"Back in the late '70s we had a call-in number called the DC Hotline, short recorded plugs for comics coming out that week," *Levitz explains.* "It was Mike Gold's brainchild and allegedly generated so much traffic when school got out that it crashed phone company circuits."



_The vote swung against Jason by the slimmest of margins and he was killed off in Batman #428, blown to smithereens after a savage beatdown delivered by a crowbar-wielding Joker — Batman arrived seconds too late to save his partner.

It was a rough way to go, and with his death determined by a paper-thin margin of just 64 votes, no one was particularly happy with the result. It was the first and the last time the call-in gimmick was employed, for obvious reasons._


"Jason Todd's death and negative press reaction may have left a bad taste in our mouths," *Levitz says.*



_And that was that. Jason Todd's fate endured for decades until Bob Schreck arrived at DC, fresh off an already extensive career in comic book publishing, including at creator-owned imprint Oni Press, which he co-founded._


*Winick:* When Bob got the big shot job at DC comics, about a year into his stint there he gave me a call. The conversation went along the lines of "do you like superhero comics?" "Yeah, I do. I love them," I said. He says, "You know, you're the only person I've ever worked with thus far who hadn't called me to look for work from DC. There are people I don't like who have reached out to me! So what's up? Do want to write a superhero comic?" Of course, I do. Everybody's got a Rabbi. Mine was absolutely Bob Schreck; he believed in me, took care of me, and made sure that I was doing good work.


_Judd would start his career at DC on titles like Green Lantern before adding stints on Green Arrow, and, eventually, Batman to his regular scripting duties at DC._


*Schreck:* Judd had already taken over Batman with artist Dustin Nguyen on a Scarecrow story. While pitching future stories for the book, he thought it would be a great idea to bring Jason back. Because he read the Batman: Hush storyline, which originally kind of nodded toward Jason Todd being the Hush character for an issue. I think that had a big hand in Judd thinking that way.


_Bringing Jason back was divisive, just as killing him was._


*Winick:* It's simply because I thought they were going to do it. It was such a terrific idea! As a reader, when Jeph Loeb and Jim Lee did their run on Batman: Hush and they toyed with the idea of revealing Hush as Jason at the end of one issue, in my mind's eye I broke it all down. Everything down to how he'd come out of Lazarus Pit. I thought that was incredible. Like a hundred miles of broken road, I just saw the opera of it. I was genuinely excited to read it. Then the next issue came along and they took it back "No, it's not Jason. It's just Clayface!" After that I couldn't let go because it just made sense to me.


*Schreck:* I was not happy about the idea. This whole thing of bringing back people, I mean, it's been done so many times. Gosh, do we really need to do this again? It's an old trick. These guys never die.

*Winick:* I don't think it took away anything from the Batman mythos. The idea of what Bruce lost. In my opinion, he still lost Jason and everything that went with it. The guilt and what it turned him into in that era, that kind of what really made him into the Dark Knight that we knew coming after Death in the Family.

*Schreck:* I kind of pushed back against it, and Judd was pushing back against me. I eventually said, "Okay, look, if this is something you really, really want to do— and you can get Dan DiDio's blessing — I'll come along for the ride and I will do my due diligence, but I'm not happy.

*Winick:* Bob didn't like it when I originally pitched it to him. Which is an amazing thing. Bob is an amazing editor on many levels. He didn't really like the story, but he knew it was good. I don't know who does that? Is anyone that mature? But Bob was. He comes in with a follow-up pep talk like, "No, I just want you to know that I don't think this is my cup of tea but I think it's going to be great, and we're gonna make it great."

*Schreck:* Eventually, it all did come together. Judd's a great writer, and he really did make it a fun run. As time went on, I thought it came together nicely.

*Winick:* Bob's challenge to me was "I want you to prove it to me. Just keep doing it." We're like five, six issues in and he goes "Okay, I get it." I go: "How did you not get it before?" To which he replies, "I know you think you're showing me in your outlines. But I didn't see the story yet. I didn't see the pathos. I didn't see the opera. Now I do." I say, "Great, alright, that was terrifying."

*Schreck:* The story was brewing in Judd's skull for quite some time. He was plotting away before we even got the green light from Dan DiDio. I think I brought up Doug Mahnke because I had worked with him on the marketing of The Mask for Dark Horse.

*Winick:* From the jump, we knew that Doug was going to be the artist on this. I was really excited about it. I can't even say enough. The thing I always loved best about Doug is that he does great acting. These aren't just cookie-cutter characters. No one looks the same. Everyone has a quality to them, height, weight and there's emotion there.

*Doug Mahnke:* I remember actually a few details that had come to me but I'm mostly hazy on how I got onto Red Hood. I know they originally came to me and asked me if I wanted to do Nightwing. I declined, I wanted something with a higher profile. Considering where I had been, coming off a stint on Justice League. And then they came back at me with Batman.


_Keeping in mind, Mahnke wasn't terribly familiar with the scope of what he was getting into._


*Mahnke:* What you're going to discover is just how incredibly ignorant comic book artists can be. When I started working for DC, I really didn't know very much about DC other than just the primary characters. I was basically a Marvel kid, then I dumped comics for a while. When I came back and started collecting stuff, it was Love and Rockets, ABC Warriors, Heavy Metal magazine, etc. So every time I worked on a book, it was just kind of focused on that moment as opposed to acquiring any knowledge that existed well beyond the little confines of where I was. I mean, I didn't even know about Jason Todd. I got up to speed. of course, but as I entered into it, they could've told me anything. It was like, "Yeah, that's cool. You know, I'm ready to draw!" I didn't appreciate the gravity of the situation. The fact that they're bringing back a character that the fans had elected to kill, and all the cool stuff that circled around the history of the character and now he's coming back after quite a while of being gone.

----------


## RedBird

_The name, The Red Hood, was meant to evoke one of the Joker's earlier identities, but the look for Jason's version had to be a little different._

*Winick:* I originally designed Jason's look for The Red Hood. I had him sort of like the original Joker version that he had no eye slots. That solid kind of quartz, metal helmet thing. And Doug came back with eye holes, reasoning being, "Well it's gonna really be hard in close up, and three quarter turns, to tell what's going on. You're just gonna lose him. "I'm like, what are you talking about?" And then I realize, "Oh, he's right! I see what you're saying. Yeah. It's the face." I think he thought it was just going to be a little bit weird and you know what? He was right. I've seen other versions floating around here and there and when he's got nothing there with his eyes it just doesn't look quite right. No eyes offers a futuristic quality to the Red Hood that you just don't want.

*Winick:* It's also funny that cover artist Matt Wagner had already done a number of covers based on my original design. He was well down the pipe prior to Doug starting on the book, and by the time he did: Eye holes. At which point Matt was like, "you know, we're not matching up here. But I don't care. Let's just say we're going for symbolism."

*Mahnke:* What I remember is that I was cool to have Matt Wagner do covers, with his pedigree. I think it obviously fit well with Bob Schreck's preferences instead of being just straight up, line art and normal comic book stuff. Plus a Wagner cover carries a certain amount of weight to it.





_While it was a masterful stroke naming Jason's new masked persona after a role originally made famous by the Joker, Winick isn't exactly sure of how that all came together._

*Winick:* It at some point just clicked in my head. The original Red Hood/Joker is such a great story in the first place. I always loved the idea that Batman inadvertently created him. It's such a deeply rich story. Alan Moore did it so well in The Killing Joke. So that always stuck with me. I think I just put two and two together. For Jason, it was a real middle finger to Joker. Bottom line, it would mess with Joker, it would mess with Batman. I think that's what Jason wanted.

*Schreck:* This was something that was in Jason's craw. He was quietly sitting back and waiting for his time for revenge on everyone. I think making him this kind of this angry person that wants some sort of retribution out of his treatment over the years hit the nail on the head.


_The storyline ran through Batman for over a year, culminating in Batman, Jason, and the Joker squaring off for a final confrontation. Jason had spent a majority of his time in Gotham after his return quietly torturing the Batman and uniting several gangs under his influence. He fashioned himself as Gotham's newest crime lord, challenging Black Mask with the ultimate goal of ridding Gotham of its less savory characters. While his goals were similar to Batman's, the means were far more violent._


*Winick:* I had the ending all right from the jump. I just had to run it by Dan DiDio. It was at San Diego Comic-Con. I think I was the first of his four breakfast meetings that day he was going to have. So I just outlined the story, and that it ends with Jason taking the Joker, kidnapping him, threatening to kill him. During the fight, Bruce says, "I'm sorry I didn't save you." And Jason tells him: "That's not what this is about. This isn't because you didn't save me, but that you didn't kill the Joker. You let him live." Dan's like, "That's how you're ending the thing?" I said, "Yes!" Dan said, "Okay, go ahead and write that!"


_The initial storyline ended, but the Red Hood's popularity was evident. The only thing missing from the story would be an explanation of how Jason returned, which occurred two months later in Batman: Annual #25.

The initial element from Judd's original pitch of the Lazarus Pit and Ra's al Ghul being involved were there, but there was an added twist to the proceedings thanks to another line-wide reality rebooting event caused by Superboy-Prime called Infinite Crisis that ran through all of DC's titles at the same time._


*Winick:* Real early on we had talked about the Superboy reality-altering punch. Geoff Johns, Greg Rucka and Dan DiDio had made a list of events which were going to get undone because of the punch. Jason was kind of one of the bigger things that Superboy would eventually undo. So that was in there and that was looming.

I thought about it, and I thought the fans were going to kill us for trying to do this crazy story and end it with a Superboy punch. I didn't think we can do it. Dan agreed... and then we changed our mind again and went with it. I think our changing our minds came when we were out and about, at conventions and people were just so hot for Infinite Crisis. It was all anyone's talking about and we just decided to stick to our guns and just go with it.

*Winick:* In hindsight, it made sense at the time. Tonally, it was right. This is the story we're doing. This is what we were committed to originally. But it didn't weather well at all. It looks super dopey. There was no way around it. Which is why, when I had the opportunity to do it over again for the animated movie, I went with one of my original ideas: Ra's gets Jason's body and throws it into the Lazarus Pit.


_In the post-Crisis world, it was revealed that a miraculously living Jason had clawed his way out of his coffin bare-handed and wandered the Gotham streets, practically catatonic, before collapsing. He then spent a year in a coma and, upon waking, returned to the streets with little to no memory of his life before death. That's where Talia and Ra's al Ghul come in, kidnapping him from Gotham and restoring his health and memory by throwing him into a Lazarus Pit. But the maddening effects of the Pit and the al Ghuls' influence led Jason to crave revenge; he embarked on a world-spanning tour to beef up his fighting skills, following in his former mentor's path, in order to be able to return to Gotham and enact his plan.

With all these details in mind, Judd was able to revisit the original story he reintroduced Jason with when he scripted the Warner Bros. Animation's adaptation Batman: Under the Red Hood, which was released in 2010._


*Winick:* I forget exactly where on the grapevine I had heard that Warner Bros. was looking to get a little dark in with their animated movies. This was around the time of Nolan's The Dark Knight. I thought, "Screw it, I'm going to pitch them Under the Red Hood." I found out later from Bruce Timm that he heard I was coming in. He told me he was fully in the camp of "We are not going to do this." As far as he was concerned, he liked the story but figured you'd have to tell all of Death in the Family for Jason's death to mean anything. We don't have time in a 70-minute feature to tell the whole thing.

So he's hearing my pitch. I say, "You do it chronologically. You begin with the teaser before the opening credits. That teaser should be the last few pages of the death of Jason Todd." Bruce tells me, "You cracked it! That's how you're supposed to do it." He said after he heard that part, the rest was a blur, he wasn't even listening. He was sure they were doing this.


_
As far as the adaptation process itself:_


*Winick:* I had the luxury with the animated movie of making it smaller. So I took that smaller story and got to expand on some of the good parts. It was a lot of fun for that reason. Collaborating with everybody and watching this new version of it come to life. With the actors coming in and bringing it further to life. It's a blast. I'm still very proud that how much people still like it. Both the comic and the animated movie.


_In hindsight, everyone involved with Jason, who is now one of the most popular members of the "Batman Family," is proud of what they helped to bring back, even as the character makes the turn from vengeance-fueled killer to anti-hero._


*Schreck:* There's an old adage: "Front-page news is always bad business and good news usually only makes it to the back pages." I think making him this angry person that wants some sort of retribution out of his treatment over the years made him quite endearing to many folks.

*Mahnke:* I'm not surprised by Jason's appeal. When he came on with such a vengeance and the style of character that he was. Very heavy-handed in the idea of his version of justice. It was something that DC was ready for. The reasoning behind Jason's motivations were perfectly aligned with his aggression. Validated in that he had more than a couple of axes to grind on his return.

*Winick*: I am deeply surprised by Jason's staying power, and at the same time very, very proud. You don't know what's gonna hit. I loved this story. I loved it when I thought they were doing it in Hush, before it was even my story. All that said, I'm still honestly surprised. It belongs to the DC Universe. Myself and Doug are the guys who get the credit for reintroducing Jason to the world, but he belongs to everybody now.

----------


## Zaresh

We could link it in the OP post, maybe.

----------


## RedBird

> We could link it in the OP post, maybe.


Oh yes, that would be great  :Smile:

----------


## K7P5V

> We could link it in the OP post, maybe.


I'm surprised it hasn't been done yet.  :Smile: 




> Oh yes, that would be great


To the utmost, I agree.  :Big Grin:

----------


## RedBird

Oh, and I think we should also add 'DCeased Unkillables' to the _upcoming appearances_ section on the front page.

----------


## Zaresh

> Oh, and I think we should also add 'DCeased Unkillables' to the _upcoming appearances_ section on the front page.


Yeah, I agree. It's going to be a big role. I would add that too.
@Seagard, in you we trust!

----------


## Sergard

> Yeah, I agree. It's going to be a big role. I would add that too.
> @Seagard, in you we trust!


Your wish is my command  :Wink: 
Interview and Unkillables was added to the OP. (I also added the rumored Red Hood TV series and a possible confrontation with Leviathan.)
There's an interview section in the OP now. I remember one or two interviews with Lobdell and one with Dexter Soy. If someone has the links I can add them in the OP.

----------


## Sergard

> https://www.cbr.com/brian-michael-be...han-interview/
> 
> New interview about the fallout of Event: Leviathan. Here's the parts that we care about**:
> 
> "Yeah, any character that was touched by this story, there's going to be fallout from," Bendis explained. "This mystery is solved but, past the mystery, a lot has happened. They were semi-successful in their quest that Leviathan has arrived and is now a power in the DC Universe and that comes with a major shift in how everyone's doing business; so that's number one. Everyone also has to deal with the fact that Leviathan set some of them up, *like, why does the Red Hood get set up for shit like this? And that does eat at the character but also lets the character know 'You have a job here. You have to take care of Leviathan because they are coming after you and they've made that very clear and they're doing the opposite of what you want in the world.'"*
> 
> "As far as Jason goes, I will say I did the most research of all the characters on Jason because I wanted the red herring to be honest and, at the same time, respectful to the character and have the character walk away as almost one of the big heroes of the story," he continued. "If you really look at it, he kind of walks away the most unscathed and it certainly points Jason in the direction of what he has to do next."
> 
> TLDR: Sounds like the events of E:L are going to have some sort of impact on Jason going forward, be it in his book or others.


Here's another interview about _Leviathan Dawn_.




> Brian Michael Bendis: [...]
> So for people who read Event Leviathan and were like, "I would like another issue of this!" here comes another double-sized epilogue/prologue. And for people who missed the event but are all in on whatever this new thing this, here we go. And this is going to be kind of be what the format is for the Leviathan Saga moving forward. There's going to be specials and miniseries that connect to a larger story as it goes and fallout in the books themselves -- not just the ones I'm writing -- to other books with any character that showed up in Event Leviathan like Batgirl. The fallout will be felt in their books too.
> 
> [...]
> 
> *You had mentioned Batgirl, and there was Jason Todd. So are we going to revisit them in Leviathan Dawn?*
> 
> Yes, 100%. This hit everybody on different levels. Some it hit very personally, some it hit thematically, like, Leviathan was against their principals on every level that something has to be done and a lot of people feel like Leviathan happened on their watch, like, "We're supposed to be watching for this and it literally happened right from under us."
> 
> [...]




LEVIATHAN DAWN #1
written by BRIAN MICHAEL BENDIS
art and cover by ALEX MALEEV
Exploding out of the pages of the Event Leviathan miniseries, this all-new special blasts the DC Universe into a dangerous and brave new future! With Leviathan arrived, its leader’s identity revealed, and its plans known, what happens next? Now the heroes fight back! Leviathan changed the rules of the game, so now’s the time for the biggest players to get together and figure out a new strategy in this brave new world. It’s an extra-sized super-spy yarn from the Eisner Award-winning team of writer Brian Michael Bendis and artist Alex Maleev!
ONE-SHOT
ON SALE 02.26.20
$4.99 US | 48 PAGES
FC | DC



And maybe also interesting for some fans although Jason doesn't have an appearance in the issue:



DOLLAR COMICS: BATMAN #386
written by DOUG MOENCH
art and cover by TOM MANDRAKE
Featuring the debut of Black Mask!
ON SALE 02.05.20
$1.00 US | 32 PAGES | FC | DC


Black Mask debuted in the pre-crisis Robin Jason era.

----------


## Sergard

Hels the 8th

_The red hood statue concept_

[IMG]https://cdnb.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/015/048/757/large/hels-the-8th-received-10156647446097280.jpg?1546870577[/IMG]

[IMG]https://cdnb.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/015/048/767/large/hels-the-8th-rh-final-render-helmet.jpg?1546869669[/IMG]

[IMG]https://cdna.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/015/048/776/large/hels-the-8th-rh-final-render-helmet-back.jpg?1546869688[/IMG]

----------


## Sergard

Hels the 8th

[IMG]https://cdnb.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/015/048/787/large/hels-the-8th-rh-final-render-helmet-front.jpg?1546869721[/IMG]

[IMG]https://cdnb.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/015/048/791/large/hels-the-8th-rh-final-render-front.jpg?1546869761[/IMG]

[IMG]https://cdnb.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/015/048/801/large/hels-the-8th-rh-close-up-final-render.jpg?1546869789[/IMG]

----------


## Sergard

Hels the 8th

[IMG]https://cdnb.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/015/048/813/large/hels-the-8th-rh-unmasked-final-render.jpg?1546869820[/IMG]


And another 3D model:

Juan Manuel Trujillo



and colored

----------


## Sergard

inkydandy

_Just using some down time to test out more colors and techniques. Lately, I've been wanting to make really loud and conceptual art with a lot of symbolism in it, but I've been trying to figure out how to work that into the style I already have. Hence uh...weird skeleton halo crowned Jason here._





yopi



remina

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

The first statue is pretty cool, but not a fan of the unmasked versions at all. Jason not only looks old but it looks outright evil. Second is pretty good although coloring could be better.

Found this on discord



Ice cold Jason.

----------


## Zaresh

> Hels the 8th
> 
> _The red hood statue concept_
> 
> [IMG]https://cdnb.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/015/048/757/large/hels-the-8th-received-10156647446097280.jpg?1546870577[/IMG]
> 
> [IMG]https://cdnb.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/015/048/767/large/hels-the-8th-rh-final-render-helmet.jpg?1546869669[/IMG]
> 
> [IMG]https://cdna.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/015/048/776/large/hels-the-8th-rh-final-render-helmet-back.jpg?1546869688[/IMG]


Daaaaaamn, it's pretty.

I agree with Dark, better with helmet. He looks like a madman without it.

----------


## Restingvoice

> 


Sulky teenage Jason I don't often see. Cute.




> Daaaaaamn, it's pretty.
> 
> I agree with Dark, better with helmet. He looks like a madman without it.


They just need to go with Dexter Soy instead of Jim Lee

----------


## RedBird

jjmk-jjmk

_Age-reversed Damian, Tim, Jason, Dick._

----------


## Sergard

> Jason Todd is a theater nerd confirmed
> 
> What in the Disney channel was that


Oh that's a reference to Titans season 2 episode 11, right?
I've seen some comments and screenshots. Seems like Jason and Rose spend some quality time together.

----------


## Sergard

Dontots

----------


## Sergard

Peter Panicman (from 2015)




Peter Panicman (from 2015)





Peter Panicman (from 2015)

----------


## Sergard

Peter Panicman (from 2015)




Peter Panicman (from 2016)




Peter Panicman

----------


## Sergard

Paolo Pantalena

_This is one of my fav characters from red hood and and outlaws, getting so much fun in rendering it_

----------


## kaimaciel

> jjmk-jjmk
> 
> _Age-reversed Damian, Tim, Jason, Dick._


OMG, I love it! I could read an entire Elseworlds story about this!

----------


## Zaresh

I watched this week's episode of Titans. The series is getting better with each episode, thank goodness. I can't say I didn't saw the big reveal coming (it was obvious for comic readers I guess), but the other small reveal, it took me by surprise. I still don't like Rose for Jason, but well, we can't always have what we want ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Bruce was awesone, in and out Dick's head; and hasn't been a long while since I last said that, sigh.

*spoilers:*
And now I have to be more subtle with my not!Jason in my little original series of short stories, because he was tied to a theatre and the work with masks in, behind and over the scene in the fly system (because the people who's going to read it know how much of a fan of Jason I am and come to conclusions). I though it was a neat idea for that kind of character, and I guess I'm not the only one who did.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Sergard

Vorimar




sdimo

----------


## magpieM

> Oh that's a reference to Titans season 2 episode 11, right?
> I've seen some comments and screenshots. Seems like Jason and Rose spend some quality time together.


Their relationship developed very fast. It feels like she's up to something.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Their relationship developed very fast. It feels like she's up to something.


She kind of was.

*spoilers:*
She was the Terra, so to speak. But spending time with Jason seems to have fully flipped her. Though it seems she was reluctant from the beginning.
*end of spoilers*

And seeing Jason all himself a thespian, well, it reminded me directly of an ongoing fanfic of Jason's I've been following. Where Jason is actually a theater/broadway nerd (along with being Red Hood), and ends up joining the local theater for their production of "The Greatest Showman". Combined with meeting the other theater people, being a vigilante, and the usual Bat Family drama, its a surprisingly interesting read. Never would have thought they would actually make Jason into a theater nerd in an official adaptation.

----------


## Zaresh

> She kind of was.
> 
> *spoilers:*
> She was the Terra, so to speak. But spending time with Jason seems to have fully flipped her. Though it seems she was reluctant from the beginning.
> *end of spoilers*
> 
> And seeing Jason all himself a thespian, well, it reminded me directly of an ongoing fanfic of Jason's I've been following. Where Jason is actually a theater/broadway nerd (along with being Red Hood), and ends up joining the local theater for their production of "The Greatest Showman". Combined with meeting the other theater people, being a vigilante, and the usual Bat Family drama, its a surprisingly interesting read. Never would have thought they would actually make Jason into a theater nerd in an official adaptation.


Ah, I remember that fic: "From Now On", I think was its name. I stopped reading it because Jason and the female original character (I keep forgetting her name) were kind of marysue-ish: everything they did, they were right to do it. Almost everyone supports them, make friends with them both, etc, etc. It's an Ok, I can recommend its reading, but, ehh... I think it doesn't have enough conflict or challenge, or even fluff I could enjoy on it: not for me so to speak. Doesn't help that I don't like musicals much and they keep singing and singing songs I don't know or like. The best part for me was the beginning and the part with the city fires. I think it's still unfinished. I wonder if it's on hiatus; I haven't seen* pass through many updates lately.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Ah, I remember that fic: "From Now On", I think was its name. I stopped reading it because Jason and the female original character (I keep forgetting her name) were kind of marysue-ish: everything they did, they were right to do it. Almost everyone supports them, make friends with them both, etc, etc. It's an Ok, I can recommend its reading, but, ehh... I think it doesn't have enough conflict or challenge, or even fluff I could enjoy on it: not for me so to speak. Doesn't help that I don't like musicals much and they keep singing and singing songs I don't know or like. The best part for me was the beginning and the part with the city fires. I think it's still unfinished. I wonder if it's on hiatus; I haven't see pass through many updates lately.


There was an update maybe a week or two ago, actually. 

But yeah, that's the one. Mary Sue-ish? I guess. Its at least not over the top like other mary sues I've seen. And growing up with musicals, some of which being my favorites to this very day (like The Music Man), I find it to be a different and interesting take on it. Plus, its overall a more light-hearted story then others. Like say, "Who I am, Who I'll Never Be," which goes full on making Jason one of the world's most wanted men for something he didn't do. He, Biz, and Artemis were framed for a heinous crime that killed quite a few innocent people. Jason was able to get away, but Bizarro and Artemis were taken prisoner, and split up.

----------


## Zaresh

> There was an update maybe a week or two ago, actually. 
> 
> But yeah, that's the one. Mary Sue-ish? I guess. Its at least not over the top like other mary sues I've seen. And growing up with musicals, some of which being my favorites to this very day (like The Music Man), I find it to be a different and interesting take on it. Plus, its overall a more light-hearted story then others. Like say, "Who I am, Who I'll Never Be," which goes full on making Jason one of the world's most wanted men for something he didn't do. He, Biz, and Artemis were framed for a heinous crime that killed quite a few innocent people. Jason was able to get away, but Bizarro and Artemis were taken prisoner, and split up.


Ah, I glanced through that one too. Didn't like it a lot, I found it too edgy (*or maybe the word is angsty*) for my tastes.
I've a few ones I'm looking forward to, but they're slow and, to be honest, almost all of them right now are JayTim shipping stories; so not a read for most. But they're pretty good, to be honest. I wish the writer were a bit faster (but then, they wouldn't be so good I guess). And the few ones that are not shipping that pairing, are even more rarely updated.

There's one that's about to end that I liked and has zero* shipping that you may like: name is "never be the first to believe". It's pretty good, I liked it a lot, even if I wasn't totally sold by the first two chapters*: it seemed to be Tim-centric, but it was actually very Jason-centric. Even Dick-Ric had more screentime that Tim (*I liked it more that way, to be honest. The writer made a good job*).

Glad to hear that the one about Jason as an musical actor isn't discontinued.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Ah, I glanced through that one too. Didn't like it a lot, I found it too edgy (*or maybe the word is angsty*) for my tastes.
> I've a few ones I'm looking forward to, but they're slow and, to be honest, almost all of them right now are JayTim shipping stories; so not a read for most. But they're pretty good, to be honest. I wish the writer were a bit faster (but then, they wouldn't be so good I guess). And the few ones that are not shipping that pairing, are even more rarely updated.
> 
> There's one that's about to end that I liked and has zero* shipping that you may like: name is "never be the first to believe". It's pretty good, I liked it a lot, even if I wasn't totally sold by the first two chapters*: it seemed to be Tim-centric, but it was actually very Jason-centric. Even Dick-Ric had more screentime that Tim (*I liked it more that way, to be honest. The writer made a good job*).
> 
> Glad to hear that the one about Jason as an musical actor isn't discontinued.


Yep. Been following that one too. Precedent is another, but it focuses on Jason before becoming Robin and interacting with the Bats and other heroes. With a few minor differences. Like Damian is already there (he's like, 6 years old) and the story itself, the author has announced there will be no Jason dying in it. Making it more fluff then angst.

----------


## Zaresh

> Yep. Been following that one too. Precedent is another, but it focuses on Jason before becoming Robin and interacting with the Bats and other heroes. With a few minor differences. Like Damian is already there (he's like, 6 years old) and the story itself, the author has announced there will be no Jason dying in it. Making it more fluff then angst.


Oh, I have Precedent in my backlog. You mentioned it a week ago or so, and made me curious about it. So thanks for the recom :3.

----------


## RedBird

> The blonde is Isabel, Jason's on and off girlfriend, and she's seeing Essence's trapped in the blade.


I was wondering what the status of their relationship was after he left Dog with her. 

I wonder if this means issue #42, (the one where Jason and Artemis apparently 'follow up' on that kiss) is not the beginnings of romance like people suspect but will be them just settling as friends, since Isabel is apparently still in the picture.

----------


## Arsenal

It’s hard to say. Unless their dynamic changes, Isabel & Jason can’t ever really be a long term thing as long as he’s an active hero/has his own book. She does like him but seems like she’s already hit her limit of cape antics.

----------


## RedBird

Speaking of issue #42! 

Some exclusive pages

that_artemis_fan

----------


## Sergard

> Speaking of issue #42! 
> 
> Some exclusive pages
> 
> that_artemis_fan


Why is Artemis so small and has no muscles? I want Soy's tall and muscular Artemis back.

The scene actually reminds me of Aladdin - the apple and the market, the thief and the princess.

----------


## Sergard

@tricksterjerk

_ The Gotham Vulpix

 The tail separates into six if this Pokémon receives plenty of love from its Trainer. Its warmth, agility, and intelligence makes it the ideal partner for Gothams street children. However they are considered vermin by the citys upper class. Due to unscrupulous trainers desiring its evolution, the Gotham Vulpix is very wary and rarely shows itself to adults. 

They have a soft spot for children and are fiercely protective of their charges. When cared for properly, the Gotham Vulpix is extremely beautiful. However such cases are far too rare._ 




@tricksterjerk

_ The Gotham Ninetails

Said to be one of the most beautiful Pokemon in the world. A Gotham legend states that the Gotham Ninetails is the ghost of a Vulpix whose love for its Trainer allows it to transcends death itself. Many cruel breeders place its previous evolution under extreme duress hoping for a Gotham Ninetails. 

The Ninetails is a relentless and vengeful Pokemon. If it encounters Trainers mistreating their Pokemon partners or anyone abusing a helpless person, it will relentless pursue said person and kill them mercilessly._

----------


## Sergard

shoucolate

----------


## Sergard

shoucolate





@trash061




yopi

----------


## Zaresh

> It’s hard to say. Unless their dynamic changes, Isabel & Jason can’t ever really be a long term thing as long as he’s an active hero/has his own book. She does like him but seems like she’s already hit her limit of cape antics.


Mmm... I kind of have the impression, after their last arc together, that Lobdell was setting her as the Margo Lane to Jason's Lamont Cranston from The Shadow (or his Marlene Alraune to Jason's Marc Spector, if you happen to be more familiar with Moon Knight); a female love interest, on and off at times because she feels conflicted, she would rather have a normal life even if she's often supportive of his dangerous heroics (or at least that's how I remember both characters). But softer, given that there're a stronger love interest in Artemis so far.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Mmm... I kind of have the impression, after their last arc together, that Lobdell was setting her as the Margo Lane to Jason's Lamont Cranston from The Shadow (or his Marlene Alraune to Jason's Marc Spector, if you happen to be more familiar with Moon Knight); a female love interest, on and off at times because she feels conflicted, she would rather have a normal life even if she's often supportive of his dangerous heroics (or at least that's how I remember both characters). But softer, given that *there're a stronger love interest* in Artemis so far.



There is one?

----------


## Sergard

pentapoda

----------


## Sergard

pentapoda






@asix-oud

----------


## Sergard

Louna Ashasou




Ethan Whylie

[IMG]https://cdna.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/013/378/160/large/ethan-wylie-red-hood-finished.jpg?1539306127[/IMG]


Denny Ibnu

[IMG]https://cdnb.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/001/949/459/large/denny-ibnu-red-hood-lr.jpg?1455028679[/IMG]

----------


## Zaresh

> There is one?


Under some point of view, there is. I think they're a stronger ship. Maybe they don't. Lobdell probably will leave them as friends, I guess. But for some people, the feel they give is stronger.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Under some point of view, there is. I think they're a stronger ship. Maybe they don't. Lobdell probably will leave them as friends, I guess. *But for some people, the feel they give is stronger.*


Well, the Dark Trinity overall gives off the feeling of being a family. Both Artemis and Jason look after Biz like he was their little brother. Even the hot-headed Artemis has a soft spot for the big guy.

For Artemis and Jason... More then friends, but not quite lovers, I guess? Somewhere in there.

----------


## Sergard

Someone on Reddit pointed out, that there's a little DC comics sale on Amazon Germany. Maybe this is useful for some people here. There are some good bargains - but some prices are already back to normal.

----------


## Robanker

> Why is Artemis so small and has no muscles? I want Soy's tall and muscular Artemis back.
> 
> The scene actually reminds me of Aladdin - the apple and the market, the thief and the princess.


You know, when he's trying to delude himself about the dynamic they had, I'm sure that's exactly how Jason tries to remember it. Yeah, it's technically well-drawn but that doesn't look like Artemis as established by Soy.

----------


## Sergard

John Becaro

_My take on the RED HOOD
Colors
Flats
Study_

[IMG]https://cdna.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/013/951/710/large/john-becaro-redhood-350.jpg?1541793577[/IMG]

[IMG]https://cdnb.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/013/951/723/large/john-becaro-redhood-line-flats.jpg?1541793268[/IMG]

[IMG]https://cdnb.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/013/951/741/large/john-becaro-redhood-study.jpg?1541793332[/IMG]

----------


## Sergard

Lucas Rémoussin

_For this artwork, I imagined Jason Todd from the Titans streaming show as Red X (from the Teen Titans cartoon) instead of Red Hood (since I think this Jason is headed towards a more vilainous path than his anti-hero persona of Red Hood). Still incorporated some Red Hood nods into the design tho._


[IMG]https://cdnb.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/014/352/223/large/lucas-remoussin-titans-red-x-11-2018.jpg?1543603433[/IMG]

[IMG]https://cdna.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/014/352/232/large/lucas-remoussin-titans-red-x-11-2018-flats.jpg?1543603185[/IMG]

[IMG]https://cdna.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/014/352/238/large/lucas-remoussin-titans-red-x-11-2018-suit-detail.jpg?1543603245[/IMG]

----------


## Sergard

Lucas Rémoussin

[IMG]https://cdnb.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/014/352/247/large/lucas-remoussin-titans-red-x-11-2018-inks.jpg?1543603283[/IMG]

Desar Yuartha

[IMG]https://cdna.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/008/829/398/large/desar-yuartha-jason-todd.jpg?1515562692[/IMG]


Nick Thomas

_Usually I paint in greyscale and colorise that but I'm trying to just paint straight into colour which I think helps it look a bit more natural! Will keep at it._ 

[IMG]https://cdnb.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/016/739/459/large/nick-thomas-jasontoddsmall.jpg?1553273421[/IMG]

----------


## Sergard

Irmak Kaya

_Arkham Knight was. Something. /mind blown_

[IMG]https://cdna.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/012/650/500/large/irmak-kaya-ak-jay-lores.jpg?1535831490[/IMG]


Calvin Huset

[IMG]https://cdna.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/015/279/320/large/calvin-huset-img-20190115-122352-941.jpg?1547754180[/IMG]


Christian Dave Gonzales

[IMG]https://cdnb.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/017/063/523/large/christian-dave-gonzales-r-s-colored-final-2.jpg?1554485061[/IMG]

----------


## Sergard

Amazon lists Red Hood: Outlaw Vol. 3: Generation Outlaw for June 30, 2020.

DCeased: The Unkillables is listed for July 14, 2020.
(But also mentions six instead of three issues. Probably a mistake.)




> Discover what the villains of the DC Universe did during the events of DCeased!
> 
> From the hit series DCeased comes a villain's story about survival during the zombie apocalypse!
> 
> Vandal Savage hasn't lived for thousands of years without being prepared. Seconds after the virus breaks out, he has already made contact and begun to assemble a team of people to help him ride out the end of the world. Some of the world's greatest mercenaries and fighters are brought to his side, all tasked to protect Savage. All Vandal can offer them is survival.
> 
> Collects DCeased: The Unkillables #1-6.



Off-topic but hopefully still interesting for some: GHeroes Europe has posted the concept of a new Batman figurine and it looks _intense_. No news on the Red Hood figurine, sadly.

----------


## Sergard

David Messina

_...my man Rex Lokus, on Red Hood 41 's colors, ROCKS!_




Sorry, but I really don't like Artemis' design here. Probably smaller than Jason, hair missing and too much focus on her boobs.

----------


## Aahz

https://m-alejandrita.tumblr.com/post/189003539065

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> David Messina
> 
> _...my man Rex Lokus, on Red Hood 41 's colors, ROCKS!_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but I really don't like Artemis' design here. Probably smaller than Jason, hair missing and too much focus on her boobs.


Putting aside the perspective, Artemis and Jason are the same height so that looks about right.

----------


## Jackalope89

Still not a fan of that haircut Artemis has. Not just her, but in general.

----------


## Sergard

zumaon



Sae




@1114.08130202

----------


## Sergard

@kira.meks

_BATS IN THE RING part 1: Intromission; getting over under the hood. ⁣
⁣
This is the first in a set of sequential illustrations I've wanted to do for ages but never found the right time to start. So here we go, batfam meets pro wrestling for no other reason than it's fun as heck for me to draw!_ 





@ge_barter

----------


## Sergard

I've just realized now that there's a batfam fanzine named "Bats & Birds" (source), although I've already seen some of their Halloween artworks.




> \ Preorders for Bats & Birds: A Batfamily Zine are now open! // 
> 
> Bats & Birds: A Batfamily Zine is an unofficial fanzine centered around the Batfamilys familial and platonic relationships. Over 30 contributors came together to bring you Bats & Birds, with over 50 pages of content and several pieces of merch! 
> 
> All proceeds, following production costs, will go to Blood:Water. You can learn about their work at their website https://www.bloodwater.org/. 
> 
> Preorders will be open from November 18th to December 20th! You can grab your copy here: batsandbirds.bigcartel.com
> 
> BUNDLES:
> ...

----------


## Sergard

inkydandy

_A little sneak peek at my @BatfamZine
 piece! Preorders are open GOGOGO_




sferiolla

_My preview for @BatfamZine
! I got to do a spread page and it was so much fun to do! Honoured to participate in this zine along with some cool artists! 

pre-orders just opened & any support would be greatly appreciated!
_




@celillustration

_Finally able to post a preview of my piece of Bruce and Jason for Bats & Birds: A Batfamily Zine! This is a charity zine with all proceeds going to Blood:Water. Pre-orders are now open at batsandbirds.bigcartel.com or visit twitter.com/BatfamZine for more info_

----------


## Jackalope89

> inkydandy
> 
> _A little sneak peek at my @BatfamZine
>  piece! Preorders are open GOGOGO_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sferiolla
> ...


Why does Jason remind me of Sylvester Stalone?

----------


## RedBird

He's always depicted as that one kid that needs the leash 

running-with-batfam



_based on this_

----------


## RedBird

heuksae





_Fly high little firefly_

----------


## RedBird

m-alejandrita



_A reference to a Nemi comic strip_

----------


## K7P5V

> Why does Jason remind me of Sylvester Stalone?


Also, bears a striking resemblance to a character from _JoJo's Bizarre Adventure_.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## RedBird

Jason Fabok

_A little snippet of Jason Todd and #Batman going for a little drive in the rain.  BATMAN: Three Jokers.  2020_

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I hate that Fabok's design is just an oversized Robin suit with a leather jacket. Is like Three Jokers is a direct sequel to Under The Red Hood, ignoring all the development Jason has had over _the past decade_.

EDIT:


https://twitter.com/JasonFabok/statu...80249732698117

----------


## Rise

> Jason Fabok
> 
> _A little snippet of Jason Todd and #Batman going for a little drive in the rain.  BATMAN: Three Jokers.  2020_


Really excited for this and I do hope we get it this year.

----------


## RedBird

> https://twitter.com/JasonFabok/statu...80249732698117



Huh. Interesting.

I can't say that I see much of a resemblance between the Hush costume and Faboks design beyond the 'R', but it is intriguing to know the source of inspiration none the less.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

More

https://twitter.com/JasonFabok/statu...88335973285894

----------


## Arsenal

I can live with the costume so long as he doesn’t act like UTRH Jason again. 

With that said, if they must ignore all of Jason’s development over the last decade than I’d prefer it to Follow UTRH Jason than any of the other Pre-FP versions.

----------


## Zaresh

> Jason Fabok
> 
> _A little snippet of Jason Todd and #Batman going for a little drive in the rain.  BATMAN: Three Jokers.  2020_


I like that they seem to be working together, or at least, Jason is allowed to be in the batmobile with Batman in what seems to be civil manners. He also doesn't look too old, which was a fear I held until now: he looks older than he should, but not older than around 25yo (EDIT3: and then Bruce too looks older than 40, so, well...).

EDIT2: the book could be a flashback entirely. But honestly, I can't see them doing an straight sequel to UtH with that panel alone. I can't see Jason post-UtH being that relaxed just beside Bruce in his car.

----------


## Sergard

@htnks2

_batboys_






zumaon

----------


## Sergard

> David Messina
> 
> _...my man Rex Lokus, on Red Hood 41 's colors, ROCKS!_


There's more:

David Messina

_Still Red Hood #41
Still the awesome @rexlokus_




David Messina

_...still the awesome @rexlokus on my pages!
From Red Hood #41_

----------


## RedBird

uth69

_Father and Son, and Family's love._

----------


## Sergard

eleedoesart

_The kid with the favorite gargoyle_






@_ampersandz

----------


## Sergard

Ahmed Akib

_This is my personal red hood project with design and process. I kept it simple and added little things that i love about the character,
the armour design is similar to the dark knight series but the same time he is grounded and he is the perfect anti hero._

[IMG]https://cdna.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/011/713/406/large/ahmed-akib-red-hood-clean-up.jpg?1531018811[/IMG]

_Final Red Hood design with the jacket_

[IMG]https://cdnb.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/011/668/573/large/ahmed-akib-red-hood-initial-design.jpg?1530763444[/IMG]

_Simple construction, he can not be too heroic but a mysterious figure._

[IMG]https://cdnb.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/011/668/559/large/ahmed-akib-red-hood-initial-design-silhouette.jpg?1530763394[/IMG]

_Some different silhouette designs Just to see where this project can go._

----------


## Sergard

Ahmed Akib (continuation)

[IMG]https://cdnb.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/011/668/567/large/ahmed-akib-red-hood-initial-design-3.jpg?1530763420[/IMG]

_different designs and combinations. I decide to do a combination of all of them._

[IMG]https://cdnb.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/011/652/261/large/ahmed-akib-red-hood-armour-closeup.jpg?1530678622[/IMG]

_closer look at the armour design, which is tactical and flexible and hidden gadgets and weapons_

[IMG]https://cdna.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/011/652/266/large/ahmed-akib-red-hood-2nd-concept.jpg?1530678687[/IMG]

_Initial concept and design of just armour and the gauntlet. Exploring one of the four possible designs_

----------


## Sergard

Ahmed Akib (final part)

[IMG]https://cdnb.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/011/713/505/large/ahmed-akib-red-hood-variations.jpg?1531019850[/IMG]

_The Variations of red hood, both for high level combat, street hustle and tactical use._

----------


## Restingvoice

I like the no-eyes ones

----------


## cc008

> Jason Fabok
> 
> _A little snippet of Jason Todd and #Batman going for a little drive in the rain.  BATMAN: Three Jokers.  2020_


Is Three Jokers a sequel to anything? Or is it an original story? Still doing a LOT of catch-up reading.

----------


## Sergard

> Is Three Jokers a sequel to anything? Or is it an original story? Still doing a LOT of catch-up reading.


Not a sequel. Probably a stand-alone story since it's not even clear anymore if it's in-continuity or not.
Release date hasn't been announced yet.

----------


## Zaresh

> Not a sequel. Probably a stand-alone story since it's not even clear anymore if it's in-continuity or not.
> Release date hasn't been announced yet.


I don't know why, but I can see them releasing it in march.

----------


## Sergard

> I don't know why, but I can see them releasing it in march.



That would be awesome. Three titles with Jason as one of the main characters in one month - RH:O, Unkillables and Three Jokers.
But March feels too early. I just hope it's released in 2020.

RH:O #50 will be released in September. If DC is really going for a strategic relaunch after issue 50 I hope we won't need to wait too long.
Suicide Squad took quite some time to return - and Green Arrow is still missing. No news on a new Batwoman series either.

Releasing Three Jokers in October could help to bridge the time.

----------


## Sergard

Marta Zardetto

[IMG]https://cdnb.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/021/158/669/large/marta-zardetto-red-hood-color.jpg?1570612636[/IMG]

[IMG]https://cdna.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/021/158/668/large/marta-zardetto-red-hood.jpg?1570612634[/IMG]


Varsha Simha

_jason todd is underrated_

[IMG]https://cdna.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/018/365/244/large/varsha-simha-varsha-simha-screen-shot-2017-01-20-at-3-39-21-am.jpg?1559101376[/IMG]

----------


## Sergard

Kael Ngu

_Batman universe commission, just that there's no Batman this time....only his shadow. Hope you guys like it!_ 

[IMG]https://cdna.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/006/920/088/large/kael-ngu-01.jpg?1502261319[/IMG]

[IMG]https://cdnb.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/006/920/091/large/kael-ngu-03.jpg?1502260837[/IMG]

[IMG]https://cdna.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/006/920/094/large/kael-ngu-04.jpg?1502260841[/IMG]

----------


## Sergard

Terry Li

_Red Hood - Shinobi Edition

Reference from Dexter Soy's Japanese style Red Hood
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DDKlqUCUIAAd4aS.jpg:large
I made this character for my comic hero project. I really love this Japanese style character which looks like a modern ninja ! I have lots of fun doing this model , while texturing is still a challenge for me ._

[IMG]https://cdna.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/017/409/944/large/terry-lee-redhoodrender001.jpg?1555879216[/IMG]

[IMG]https://cdna.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/017/409/946/large/terry-lee-redhoodrender002.jpg?1555878224[/IMG]

[IMG]https://cdna.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/017/409/950/large/terry-lee-redhoodrender003.jpg?1555878231[/IMG]

----------


## Sergard

Terry Li (continuation)

[IMG]https://cdna.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/017/409/942/large/terry-lee-redhoodrender004.jpg?1555878207[/IMG]

Aymeric Rondol

_I wanted to make a concept of one of my favorite DC characters Red Hood._

[IMG]https://cdna.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/012/990/622/large/aymeric-rondol-redhood-01.jpg?1537512155[/IMG]

[IMG]https://cdnb.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/012/990/623/large/aymeric-rondol-redhood-02.jpg?1537512157[/IMG]

----------


## Sergard

Aymeric Rondol (continuation)

[IMG]https://cdna.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/012/990/624/large/aymeric-rondol-redhood-03.jpg?1537512160[/IMG]

[IMG]https://cdnb.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/012/986/233/large/aymeric-rondol-redhood-maya.jpg?1537484185[/IMG]

Aziz Mbye

----------


## Sergard

Chris Johnson





Jomar Bulda

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Kael Ngu
> 
> _Batman universe commission, just that there's no Batman this time....only his shadow. Hope you guys like it!_ 
> 
> [IMG]https://cdna.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/006/920/088/large/kael-ngu-01.jpg?1502261319[/IMG]
> 
> [IMG]https://cdnb.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/006/920/091/large/kael-ngu-03.jpg?1502260837[/IMG]
> 
> [IMG]https://cdna.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/006/920/094/large/kael-ngu-04.jpg?1502260841[/IMG]



Impressed that anyone remembers Calvin Rose and The Butcher.

----------


## Sergard

nockuth



nockuth




@eksxm

----------


## adrikito

Maybe nobody saw this or I didn´t saw the link(that guides you to this) when I saw artemis and bizarro with jason..

Seems that this will happen in R.H Outlaws 41 or 42(Or I read that)

RA.jpg

RA 2.jpg

Seems that return to this earth made her hair grow again..  :Stick Out Tongue:  Something that I like to see.

----------


## Sergard

> Maybe nobody saw this or I didn´t saw the link(that guides you to this) when I saw artemis and bizarro with jason..
> 
> Seems that this will happen in R.H Outlaws 41 or 42(Or I read that)
> 
> Attachment 89656
> 
> Attachment 89657
> 
> Seems that return to this earth made her hair grow again..  Something that I like to see.


It's from issue 42 (that's Paolo Pantalena's art style)
RedBird mentioned this little "preview" a few pages ago but the two pages were only mentioned and not really discussed.
(And I don't think everyone noticed them. So it's good that you reposted them  :Wink: )




> Speaking of issue #42! 
> 
> Some exclusive pages
> 
> that_artemis_fan
> [...]

----------


## Sergard

sdimo





bluetost_T




remina(@akkiyamia)

----------


## Sergard

yanagi






Batfam Zine

_Its time to talk stretch goals! Our first goal has already been unlocked! Thank you all so much for the support! With your help this lovely double sided bookmark by carlodraws will be added to all physical and full bundles. Check out the thread for more stretch goal info._




Hunter

----------


## Sergard

zumaon



zumaon



Sae

----------


## Sergard

weaselarts





zaidjb_art




mmxixc

----------


## Sergard

Gebarter




kaienki




Lixiaozhu

----------


## Sergard

And here's some Artemis:

Travis Mercer




Bruno Iliadis




art by Victoria Palomino

----------


## Jackalope89

> Maybe nobody saw this or I didn´t saw the link(that guides you to this) when I saw artemis and bizarro with jason..
> 
> Seems that this will happen in R.H Outlaws 41 or 42(Or I read that)
> 
> Attachment 89656
> 
> Attachment 89657
> 
> Seems that return to this earth made her hair grow again..  Something that I like to see.


Admittedly, I quite like this style for them. Though Artemis looks quite different than usual, and I don't mean her hair growing back (thankfully).

----------


## Sergard

RED HOOD OUTLAW #41 VAR ED (source: previewsworld)

----------


## Sergard

htnks




posa





yen

----------


## Sergard

hakoterebi(@Okota_to_TV) (from 2016)




y(@y_ahyahyah)




@uth69

----------


## Sergard

Sae

----------


## Sergard

The more I hear about Three Jokers the more nervous I become. This story could be really good or really bad, that's my guess at the moment.

Jason Fabok

_My most controversial batman opinion...has actually become the ending of Batman: Three Jokers... it's going to cause quite the stir and is the gutsiest thing written in Batman in 80 years... #batman #threejokers #2020_

----------


## johnpeelgothisgun

> The more I hear about Three Jokers the more nervous I become. This story could be really good or really bad, that's my guess at the moment.
> 
> Jason Fabok
> 
> _My most controversial batman opinion...has actually become the ending of Batman: Three Jokers... it's going to cause quite the stir and is the gutsiest thing written in Batman in 80 years... #batman #threejokers #2020_


I can only hope Fabok's trolling or exaggerating. From what I've seen, though, he seems serious.

Anymore, my own interest in a comic invariably plummets once controversy is brought in as a marketing ploy. I _was_ looking forward to this...

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

On the other hand, the last time a creative bragged about writing something "that would change Batman for generations to come", it ended up being the cheap and nonsensical killing of Alfred. So I take those claims with a truckload of salt.

----------


## Denirac

Said this over in the Controversial Opinion Thread but as much as I love Jason and Artemis, a One Night Stand between Jason Todd and Harley Quinn would be an interesting angle for a Story about the Trauma caused by Joker and I'm surprised it hasnt happened yet

----------


## RedBird

> The more I hear about Three Jokers the more nervous I become. This story could be really good or really bad, that's my feeling.
> 
> Jason Fabok
> 
> _My most controversial batman opinion...has actually become the ending of Batman: Three Jokers... it's going to cause quite the stir and is the gutsiest thing written in Batman in 80 years... #batman #threejokers #2020_


I've been feeling that for a while now. 

I almost hope some of this is all _talk_, just to get more eyes on the book, which of course considering how much the book has dropped off peoples radars thanks to the long wait, it could very well be just the standard promotion for creators. 

I really want a good story, with some good characterizations and psychological explorations, which is supposedly what Johns and Fabok are promising, but all this, _Jason Todds most definitive tale_, or, the _gutsiest thing written in 80 years_, are pretty damn bold statements, it's made me feel a little iffy.

Makes me wonder though, since honestly the only thing that would fall into the category of *gutsy* in a Batman book (especially one featuring Joker) would be, A: Killing off Joker, or, B: Having Batman kill off Joker. 

Beyond that, I can't really think of much else. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Wait no, I'll throw in an option C: A 'bad ending' option of Bruce and Joker being related by blood, or Jason and Joker related, I don't know, some kind of comic booky nonsense  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## RedBird

> On the other hand, the last time a creative bragged about writing something "that would change Batman for generations to come", it ended up being the cheap and nonsensical killing of Alfred. So I take those claims with a truckload of salt.


That's true, though the only thing that makes me think otherwise, is that fact that the book is _already_ no longer in continuity. I mean, Fabok seemed a bit wishy washy about it, that it sorta was and but that it could be considered not, makes it sound like there IS a pretty controversial decision in the book that DC is already prepared to drop or adopt. I could see it being something similar to Killing Joke or even now Alfreds death, where they'll simply gauge audience reactions after the release and decide from there.

----------


## RedBird

> Said this over in the Controversial Opinion Thread but as much as I love Jason and Artemis, a One Night Stand between Jason Todd and Harley Quinn would be an interesting angle for a Story about the Trauma caused by Joker and I'm surprised it hasnt happened yet


You know, to a degree, I'm also kinda surprised Jason and Harley haven't interacted more on the subject of the Joker and haven't been given much of a shared trauma story, same goes for Babs, those three are probably his most well known 'victims', but I have to ask, why a One Night Stand?

----------


## Denirac

> You know, to a degree, I'm also kinda surprised Jason and Harley haven't interacted more on the subject of the Joker and haven't been given much of a shared trauma story, same goes for Babs, those three are probably his most well known 'victims', but I have to ask, why a One Night Stand?


Psychological Impact, the Most Damaged People related to Joker and DC's Refusal to commit to Harley/Ivy- Plus given her relationships with almost everyone at this point from Lobo to Wonder Woman. Plus they both have alot in common, hell Rebirth made it canon she was his therapist too

----------


## Jackalope89

> Psychological Impact, the Most Damaged People related to Joker and DC's Refusal to commit to Harley/Ivy- Plus given her relationships with almost everyone at this point from Lobo to Wonder Woman. Plus they both have alot in common, hell Rebirth made it canon she was his therapist too


And in that same issue, Jason cringed away from Harley as soon as she tried to get close.

Just because the two both suffered at Joker's hands, doesn't mean they're on good terms.

----------


## RedBird

> Plus they both have alot in common, hell Rebirth made it canon she was his therapist too


I really wanted to see those therapy sessions in Arkham, hell since it's canon, I would have loved to see Jasons experience in Arkham, period.

----------


## Arsenal

While I’m not entirely opposed to the idea of a temporary Jason/Harley thing, I feel it’d require the right writer to pull it off otherwise it’ll end up being a slightly better version of Talia/Jason from Lost Days.

----------


## johnpeelgothisgun

> Said this over in the Controversial Opinion Thread but as much as I love Jason and Artemis, a One Night Stand between Jason Todd and Harley Quinn would be an interesting angle for a Story about the Trauma caused by Joker and I'm surprised it hasnt happened yet


I'd fully support a story where they interacted or where their stories were run in parallel to each other. I can't get behind a one night stand, though. I can't imagine the writers behaving like adults once they had that fun new toy to play with.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Finally got the Batfamily Diorama Red Hood. Good figure, sculpting is fantastic but painting and details are so-so, and is really small (or at least for the scale I'm used to)

----------


## Zaresh

> I can only hope Fabok's trolling or exaggerating. From what I've seen, though, he seems serious.
> 
> Anymore, my own interest in a comic invariably plummets once controversy is brought in as a marketing ploy. I _was_ looking forward to this...


People tend to hype their own work, it's to be expected, because that way their work sell. Also, too, because people tend to see their own projects they're invested in with under the best light and with the better hopes. Those works are like their children, it's understandable \o/.

I'm hoping for a good read and nice art. Expecting something like anything else before (because its quality) is something that I prefer not to do, no matter how much hype it's created. I'm too old to hype about anything anymore :/.

----------


## Zaresh

> Psychological Impact, the Most Damaged People related to Joker and DC's Refusal to commit to Harley/Ivy- Plus given her relationships with almost everyone at this point from Lobo to Wonder Woman. Plus they both have alot in common, hell Rebirth made it canon she was his therapist too


I'm not a fan of that. Not a fan of just putting people together in a relationship because dramatic impact, Or a one-time thing. It feels... wrong for me somehow. Kind of why I'm not liking Rose Wilson as a pairing either. A little bit because the same reasons that I cannot exactly put into words. Just my opinion, ofc.

Or, well, kind of how Jason and Talia did it, but it was clear it was for the wrong reasons. Even if it's not canon anymore (but even that was a bit like "and this now, why?", to be honest). The thing is, for me, it has to be clear for the reader that it's a wrong move, or a move that's not "good", even if it turns well. Because, somehow, I don't feel it, uhm, believable? Gah, it's hard to find the words. It shouldn't be made looking for causing dramatic impact or because it feels "cool".

It has to feel like a natural outcome, or serve some aim for the developing of the characters. Or for undoing development (or more like developing the characters through "bad" paths: turning them evil, or crazy, or breaking them...).

But a one shot story featuring the two of them just expending time and sharing experiences could be a nice read; see what comes from their interaction.

----------


## Denirac

> I'm not a fan of that. Not a fan of just putting people together in a relationship because dramatic impact, Or a one-time thing. It feels... wrong for me somehow. Kind of why I'm not liking Rose Wilson as a pairing either. A little bit because the same reasons that I cannot exactly put into words. Just my opinion, ofc.
> 
> Or, well, kind of how Jason and Talia did it, but it was clear it was for the wrong reasons. Even if it's not canon anymore (but even that was a bit like "and this now, why?", to be honest). The thing is, for me, it has to be clear for the reader that it's a wrong move, or a move that's not "good", even if it turns well. Because, somehow, I don't feel it, uhm, believable? Gah, it's hard to find the words. It shouldn't be made looking for causing dramatic impact or because it feels "cool".
> 
> It has to feel like a natural outcome, or serve some aim for the developing of the characters. Or for undoing development (or more like developing the characters through "bad" paths: turning them evil, or crazy, or breaking them...).
> 
> But a one shot story featuring the two of them just expending time and sharing experiences could be a nice read; see what comes from their interaction.


I'd almost argue that Jason and Harley have more in common than a lot of DCU Characters, They're both Psychologically Damaged Victims of Joker's Insanity but in different ways- at their core, both have been Broken by Joker. Harley's Insane and Jason isnt exactly what one describes as Stable, It feels more natural than Jason and Talia at least

----------


## redmax99

> I'd almost argue that Jason and Harley have more in common than a lot of DCU Characters, They're both Psychologically Damaged Victims of Joker's Insanity but in different ways- at their core, both have been Broken by Joker. Harley's Insane and Jason isnt exactly what one describes as Stable, It feels more natural than Jason and Talia at least


no jason is a victim, harley was a grown woman who knowingly ran into the arms of a serial killer who was her patient. i don't know why people try to compare Barbra and jason to harley a woman who threw her whole life way to be with a killer

----------


## Denirac

> no jason is a victim, harley was a grown woman who knowingly ran into the arms of a serial killer who was her patient. i don't know why people try to compare Barbra and jason to harley a woman who threw her whole life way to be with a killer


As much as I love Jason, in that case the Victim card only goes so far when you become a Mass Murderer too.

----------


## RedBird

> no jason is a victim, harley was a grown woman who knowingly ran into the arms of a serial killer who was her patient. i don't know why people try to compare Barbra and jason to harley a woman who threw her whole life way to be with a killer


I agree, and for the sake of clarity I would like to make my standpoint clear on this and expand on why I placed 'victims' in quotation marks earlier.

Compared to Harley Quinn, Babs and Jason were much more like innocent bystanders when they crossed deadly paths with the Joker, even in the situations of how their trauma took place, Babs being in the safety of her own home and Jason trying to find and reassure his mother. Harley's story is that she was more or less seduced by the Joker and manipulated further once she was blinded by her love, but yes, she very much knew him to be a murderous crazed criminal and still _chose_ to side with him, all whilst adopting a new criminal persona for herself as well. 

Whilst I completely agree with you on this topic of Harley not being _nearly_ in the same category as Babs and Jason, this idea of Harley as being 'just a victim', is in all fairness, whether we like it or not, kind of how she is seen now a days and it's perpetuated by DC. It's why she is placed in stories like 'Heroes in Crisis', and within that book when she is crossing paths with Babs, she isn't treated with any sort of wariness or distance, instead she gets a hug.


I apologize ahead for this tangent but...
Harley's antics in her main books, seem to be _carefully_ ensured that no matter how violent or reprehensible they are, they are presented so cartoonishly loony and therefore too unimpactful, to show her as anything other than a 'fun loving clown gal'. And that's totally fine by itself, but then the abuse narrative shows up and becomes the only thing that's presented as carrying any sort of weight and therefore ensures that she is only seen as a victim of Joker, whilst her own crimes with or without him are swept under the rug by the guise of being just a 'ca-razy girl power' anthem.

I love her growth as an independent character, but I think often times the idea of her as the _face of abuse victims_ has created such a black and white view over her origin, one that leaves little room for any nuance to her as a character and not a symbol, lest she be seen as unsympathetic. She was an intelligent woman who found her escapism fantasy in a love for a murderous monster, and who was completely fine with hurting and killing others with reckless abandon alongside her lover, but then as soon as, said lover, hurts her instead, she becomes 'just a victim', and often that ends up overshadowing her character, despite the obvious context by which it all occurs.


Side note: I been loving 'Harleen' by Stjepan Sejic though, the tone is much more thoughtful there and considering it's structured from the more automatically sympathetic position of being in Harleys mind and her POV, it still feels much more self aware and critical. I'm curious to see how that story finalizes her origin.

----------


## redmax99

> As much as I love Jason, in that case the Victim card only goes so far when you become a Mass Murderer too.


but jason is a victim of joker's just like barbra, harley is not  she chose him knowing he was a serial killer, he was in arkham when she met him. i can admit jason is a serial killer, but what does being a killer have to do with harley not being one of joker victims. tell me why a woman who fell in love with a mass murder while he was in an mental institute for the criminally insane a victim of his because he beat her he kills women and children just for fun and she knew that. i don't put her in the same category as jason or barbra because at least they were innocent  bystanders or people when joker attack them. harley wanted to be by joker side no matter the abuse or the cost. look im not saying harley not a victim she is she just  not one of joker victims

----------


## RedBird

> As much as I love Jason, in that case the Victim card only goes so far when you become a Mass Murderer too.


A victim card is part of the fabrication of victimhood, which I don't think applies to Jason.

Jason was a victim as a child, he was innocent when he was made to be a victim, and now is still suffering the consequences of said trauma through his adulthood. No one is saying that Joker made him a mass murderer, in the end that was entirely his choice. If we are regarding how his current actions would make him unsympathetic and render his victimhood null, well context matters, and in comparison to Joker who is usually presented as the pinnacle for despicable and criminal human behavior, it's safe to say that Jason doesn't carry the same values as the Joker, he doesn't kill in order to create needless chaos and harm like the Joker. His victim hood was not a fabrication nor have his actions ever been equally comparative to his perpetrator, Joker, despite the lethal measures he takes.

By contrast, Harley became a mass murderer alongside Joker, she was fine with killing under the Jokers values of needless chaos and harm, before she came across the consequences of said actions, her victimization came only after her long criminal actions, which were much more comparative and in line with her perpetrators.


There is a difference.

----------


## Zaresh

> I'd almost argue that Jason and Harley have more in common than a lot of DCU Characters, They're both Psychologically Damaged Victims of Joker's Insanity but in different ways- at their core, both have been Broken by Joker. Harley's Insane and Jason isnt exactly what one describes as Stable, It feels more natural than Jason and Talia at least


I have a lot in common with people that I'm pretty sure I don't want to have even a one night stand, let alone an actual love affair. I also have some issues that I'm pretty sure are something I wouldn't want to have to deal with with others, because it could be a neverending feedback of arguing, anxiety and angryness: If I'm going to find someone to share my life with, I will find someone who can deal with them and has his own that I can deal with.

Being unstable doesn't mean that he would feel attached to someone who is al well. And Jason isn't crazy, just to point out. He has issues, like everyone. You could argue that Bruce is as unstable as Jason, or even more. What Jason is, is emotional, and he's driven by them. But not all the time, just when he's overflown by them. Like a lot of people. Just, a lot of people aren't vigilantes with training and resouces and a big PTSD.

----------


## Fergus

They are all victims. Harley being a grownup or falling for the Joker doesn't make her any less a victim. That's a shitty thing to say. 

I could say that Jason disobeyed orders and ran of not like Damian to save the world from his mum but because basically he wanted his mummy. He failed to listen to Bruce and ended up getting him killed. Does that make him any less of a victim because he actively chased his own death? Nope. They are all victims. Being a grown up doesn't change that.

I don't think that Jason and Harley should have a one night stand. Do they even have a relationship? 

I know they have a connection via Joker but that's stretching it especially since Joker isn't Jason's arch. 

Harley and bruce having that one date made sense she is his arch.

Harley attempting to rape Nightwing is a stretch but he's the DcU sex God that every woman wants. that's established so one can come by that angle but aside from that it makes little sense.

----------


## RedBird

> They are all victims. Harley being a grownup or falling for the Joker doesn't make her any less a victim. That's a shitty thing to say.


I'm going to assume this isn't directed towards me since I clearly didn't say Harley wasn't a victim.




> I could say that Jason disobeyed orders and ran of not like Damian to save the world from his mum but because basically he wanted his mummy. He failed to listen to Bruce and ended up getting him killed. Does that make him any less of a victim because he actively chased his own death? Nope. They are all victims. Being a grown up doesn't change that.


This statement is just confusing. Also I don't know what Damian has to do with this?

Yeah, you could say Jason disobeyed an order because he 'wanted his mummy'. But that wasn't what got him killed? And he certainly didn't 'chase his own death'? I don't know how that pertains. Jason didn't 'get himself killed' he was contacting his mom when Joker crossed his path or more so trapped him and killed him. There was no way for him to know that simply speaking with his mother would lead to death via Joker.

----------


## Zaresh

> As much as I love Jason, in that case the Victim card only goes so far when you become a Mass Murderer too.


He's not a mass murderer. A murderer, yeah, he's that. But victims who are manipulated into murder and become murderers are still victims, and they don't stop being so because they murder. Are the child soldiers that get to live into their later teens less victims because they are teens instead of kids or they have been indoctrinated into kill, taking advantage of the teens resent against whatever other faction? Because, that's in short what's happened to Jason, whom people tend to forget was a teen when he was traumatically killed, came back and became Red Hood.

He's still a killer, he chose (still chooses sometimes) to kill. But sometimes choices aren't clear for us, or we find outselves without a good choice at all, either because our circumstances, or the baggage we carry with us. Even for mature adults; we're responsible of our acts unless we're insane, but there are mitigating circumstances too, even for us. A beaten wife who has killed his husband to put an end to him beating her is still a victim, as much as a murderer.

The more I grow old and get to know people, the more grays I find. I was pretty black and white when I was in middle school, funny enough. I'm still pretty radical about certain things, but, funny enough, I wasn't about them then. Life's funny.

----------


## Zaresh

Just to be clear; I understand a mass murderer as someone who kills people systematically in a short period of time, and in big numbers. It's not just about the numbers. Back in the day, did the mafiosi and their thugs get called mass murderers? If they were, then, I guess I'm wrong. But I think, probably because my background as a historian, that the category is more fitting for people who exterminates a group of certain characteristics, in very high numbers, consistently. Certain take on Joker would be one just barely because the sheer amount of numbers, and because he chooses usually victims of a certain place as a collective. But not always.

----------


## RedBird

@Denirac I'll give you credit, you weren't kidding when you said it was 'a controversial opinion', XD there's quite some push back here.

----------


## RedBird

_zynix10
SaltBae

----------


## Sergard

Jarrulus




remina(@akkiyamia)




Sdimo





Sorry, that I don't contribute anything to the Jason/Harley discussion but I don't like the idea.
And being traumatized by the Joker isn't a good enough reason.
Most batfam members are traumatized by the Joker. But that doesn't mean that Harley should f*ck with Bruce, Dick, Barbara, Tim, Damian or Alfred.

----------


## RedBird

maple_DC

*cursed Jason Todd image*

----------


## Arsenal

Maybe basing a potential Harley & Jason relationship on something resembling a mutual sponsor/sponsee type of arrangement instead of anything romantic or intimate would be the better way to approach it. Under the right pen I think it could work (not that I have the slightest idea of who could do it).

----------


## Fergus

> I'm going to assume this isn't directed towards me since I clearly didn't say Harley wasn't a victim.
> 
> 
> 
> This statement is just confusing. Also I don't know what Damian has to do with this?
> 
> Yeah, you could say Jason disobeyed an order because he 'wanted his mummy'. But that wasn't what got him killed? And he certainly didn't 'chase his own death'? I don't know how that pertains. Jason didn't 'get himself killed' he was contacting his mom when Joker crossed his path or more so trapped him and killed him. There was no way for him to know that simply speaking with his mother would lead to death via Joker.


No it was directed at the poster Redmax 99

I meant that by Jason leaving when he was told not one could blame him for falling into the hands of Joker.

Harley didn't set out to fall for Joker anymore than Jason expected to fall into his hands or Babs expected to find Joker on the other side of the door.

----------


## Sergard

Symeona M. Kanellou




Symeona M. Kanellou

----------


## Sergard

spaceboykenny

_how to be perfect:
1. Hold a puppy
2. Be Jason Todd holding a puppy_





zatou_08

_Drew him after a long time #jasontodd #batman #redhood_

----------


## Zaresh

> @Denirac I'll give you credit, you weren't kidding when you said it was 'a controversial opinion', XD there's quite some push back here.


Yeah, wasn't kidding XD.

----------


## Jackalope89

A simple panel, but one of my favorite for the shade it throws at Harley (so tired of her).

----------


## Sergard

> A simple panel, but one of my favorite for the shade it throws at Harley (so tired of her).


And that was the moment when Jason fell in love with Artemis.

----------


## Denirac

> Maybe basing a potential Harley & Jason relationship on something resembling a mutual sponsor/sponsee type of arrangement instead of anything romantic or intimate would be the better way to approach it. Under the right pen I think it could work (not that I have the slightest idea of who could do it).


Lobdell on his best day like early Rebirth could probably make it work

----------


## Denirac

> @Denirac I'll give you credit, you weren't kidding when you said it was 'a controversial opinion', XD there's quite some push back here.


I was tired of people saying "Controversial Opinion" and then saying something mundane

----------


## Sergard

> Lobdell on his best day like early Rebirth could probably make it work


Judging by the panel above, I don't think Lobdell particularly likes Harley.
Tom Taylor would probably be the better choice - and Taylor has already written both characters in the Injustice universe.

----------


## Denirac

> Judging by the panel above, I don't think Lobdell particularly likes Harley.
> Tom Taylor would probably be the better choice - and Taylor has already written both characters in the Injustice universe.


I wouldn't say Lobdell particularly dislikes Harley, more sees her as unthreatening, unlike say.... Tom King who thinks she can solo the Trinity.

----------


## Sergard

> I wouldn't say Lobdell particularly dislikes Harley, more sees her as unthreatening, unlike say.... Tom King who thinks she can solo the Trinity.


Tom King is the personification of a Controversial Opinion thread.
The whole team-up between Harley and Batgirl felt odd too. But it seems like Barbara is the batfam member Harley is the closest to now (not that Harley was close to any other member before.)
Which is not a particular wrong move since both are victims of the Joker - and both are women which fits the female empowerment atmosphere around modern Harley.

(sorry for being off-topic)

----------


## RedBird

> Harley didn't set out to fall for Joker anymore than Jason expected to fall into his hands or Babs expected to find Joker on the other side of the door.


See now, I agree she hadn't planned to become infatuated with the Joker, yes to that, but that's where the differences lie. Jason didn't expect to fall into the Jokers hands, but then what could he do about it? Nothing. Babs didn't expect to find Joker outside her door, but what could she have done? Nothing. They were either killed or severely paralyzed upon the Joker deciding their fate (or even sexually assaulted depending on your interpretation to Killing Joke). It's why I liken their victim hood to innocent bystanders or if we want to push it further as something akin to law enforcers killed/hurt whilst off duty. They didn't get a choice in the matter, and even if they had been hurt whilst fighting the Joker, their 'choices' would have been noble and altruistic and in order to stop Jokers terrorizing, again, more akin to law enforcers. (Later on Jason murders people and yes, that is his choice and he is responsible for his own criminal actions there, but his initial victimization was not something he could be held accountable for)

Now with Harley, she didn't expect to became infatuated with Joker whilst still as Harleen in the Asylum, and that certainly wasn't her fault and not something that could be controlled, but that's where her choices came into play. She felt infatuated with a mass murderer and despite that knowledge, she still wanted to be his lover, she was also his right hand man, she was killing and terrorizing people, she had a clown based persona of her own, those were HER choices. That was part of her agency. It's not just that Harley's love was something akin to people who become infatuated with serial killers and visit them in prison, she actively participated in his plans to terrorize innocent people often with nary a thought.

Is she a victim of the Jokers? Well, yes of course, eventually she certainly became one, he hurt her in ways she never expected. But given those points I mentioned and that context, I just don't think the victimization of Harley could be categorized in the exact same way as Jason and Babs, yet often times, that is how it is depicted. The nuance of her own agency and crimes are overshadowed by the victim she became.

----------


## RedBird

> I was tired of people saying "Controversial Opinion" and then saying something mundane


After seeing so many 'I hate Character X', comments in the 'Controversial Opinion' thread, I completely agree XD

----------


## Zaresh

So... Titans has ended already.

I don't think the season was very good, but it ended definitely better than how it started. The last episode and the ones before that one were fun and enjoyable. But eh, pacing was all over the place in the last one, and it felt a little, I don't know, cheap (not because the writing this time, but because some more technical stuff. It may be just me though. I'm a bit too much nitpicking and I'm aware of it :/).

Spoilers ahead about Jason.
*spoilers:*
So they didn't kill him, which was what I expected; but they didn't make him rejoin the team either. It's arguable he's still joining Bruce as Robin, even. He seems to just be giving up on everything and going there carrying on with his probably very outlaw life. He isn't even coming back to the theatre. But, he got a cool bike. I guess we will know more next season, if we have one.
*end of spoilers*

Spoilers about everything else.
*spoilers:*

I wasn't expecting Donna to die, or at least, not like that. A bit out of the blue, I think. I liked how they came to be together again, and I like how the Hank and Dawn conflicting relationship was resolved. I'm not too sold on Gar being angsty; but then, he doesn't have a lot of issues to work with, so I can understand that they would give him these. Conner is lovely, I want to hug him forever. Dick puts himself together; was about time, good lord. Kori is cool, as always. Raven is cool, but I don't like her coolness, too marysueish; I can see why they've put her in a bus, so to speak; because right know, she's a bit too deus ex machina for whatever conflict they could bring to the table. Rose has soft redeemed herself and now has a plus one with Jericho in her, and all that can be a nice starting point for a developing arc. And Bruce, I love this Bruce. Please, let him be like that. He's like Finch in Person of Interest, and Finch was so, so, so much more fun and interesting to watch than Reese.

I guess that, whatever/whoever made the Alko meeting happen, was probably behind all the weird stuff this season: Dick's hallucinations, Rachel's out of control powers, Kori loosing hers, and Jason having a heavy PTSD with the falling. I don't buy it all happening because of Rachel's powers.

*end of spoilers*

----------


## RedBird

> Lobdell on his best day like early Rebirth could probably make it work


That's a fair point, plus Lobdell did try something kinda similar by having Jason take Jokers daughter under his wing. Granted their partnership didn't work out in the end but that was due to her still being obsessed with Joker, unlike modern Harley.




> Judging by the panel above, I don't think Lobdell particularly likes Harley.
> Tom Taylor would probably be the better choice - and Taylor has already written both characters in the Injustice universe.


Lobdell doesn't like Harley? What makes you say that? Shame if it's true, I was just rereading the Suicide Squad rhato teamup yesterday, I actually liked his voice for Harley.
Same goes for Tom Taylor of course.

----------


## RedBird

> spaceboykenny
> 
> _how to be perfect:
> 1. Hold a puppy
> 2. Be Jason Todd holding a puppy_


Oh man, this just reminded me of Dog, I wonder if we'll see her again when Isabel returns.

----------


## Jackalope89

> So... Titans has ended already.
> 
> I don't think the season was very good, but it ended definitely better than how it started. The last episode and the ones before that one were fun and enjoyable. But eh, pacing was all over the place in the last one, and it felt a little, I don't know, cheap (not because the writing this time, but because some more technical stuff. It may be just me though. I'm a bit too much nitpicking and I'm aware of it :/).
> 
> Spoilers ahead about Jason.
> *spoilers:*
> So they didn't kill him, which was what I expected; but they didn't make him rejoin the team either. It's arguable he's still joining Bruce as Robin, even. He seems to just be giving up on everything and going there carrying on with his probably very outlaw life. He isn't even coming back to the theatre. But, he got a cool bike. I guess we will know more next season, if we have one.
> *end of spoilers*
> 
> ...


*spoilers:*
Eh, the ending to Titans was a mess. Many of the reasons have been pointed out in the TV/Film thread for Titans. But Jason... Not a single word between Bruce and Dick about him. Not a word about his suicide attempt, depression, or feelings of abandonment. If he becomes an antagonist to the Titans in the future, can't say I blame him for it. With the two people that are supposed to be the closest to him, that's a low blow.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## Zaresh

> *spoilers:*
> Eh, the ending to Titans was a mess. Many of the reasons have been pointed out in the TV/Film thread for Titans. But Jason... Not a single word between Bruce and Dick about him. Not a word about his suicide attempt, depression, or feelings of abandonment. If he becomes an antagonist to the Titans in the future, can't say I blame him for it. With the two people that are supposed to be the closest to him, that's a low blow.
> *end of spoilers*


*spoilers:*
Well, to be fair, I can see them pointing out that Jason is let alone with his problems to fare by himself, precisely, as a reason why both Dick and Bruce failed or are going to fail him (putting him in his way to RH). I think it's intentional, because no way someone delivers that family speech without taking Jason's case into account.

My main problem with this last episode was with pace and how they wanted to close too much plots in just 40-50 minutes, besides an epilogue even. They tried to put too much in one episode, and that means most of it isn't going to have a propper, satisfying closure. The writing this season, except for a few episodes, wasn't the best. But it could be a total mess, like the first episode of this season was, or it was in my opinion.
*end of spoilers*

----------


## RedBird

nac-nic

_Jason and Dog are goals_

----------


## RedBird

heuksae

----------


## Sergard

> Lobdell doesn't like Harley? What makes you say that? Shame if it's true, I was just rereading the Suicide Squad rhato teamup yesterday, I actually liked his voice for Harley.
> Same goes for Tom Taylor of course.


Just a guess because of the panel. Artemis saying "She's a lunatic with a hammer." feels a little bit like Lobdell trying to drop his own opinion on Harley.
I actually don't know what to think of Harley Quinn's appearance in RHatO because I don't know how Harley is supposed to be. It feels like every writer has a slightly different take on her.






> Oh man, this just reminded me of Dog, I wonder if we'll see her again when Isabel returns.


I hope so. I love Dog. Dog is a good Outpaw. xD

----------


## RedBird

> I hope so. I love Dog. Dog is a good Outpaw. xD


Outpaw! I love that
If the outlaws get another more stable home-base, I really wanna see a place made out, just for Dog.

----------


## Zaresh

> I hope so. I love Dog. Dog is a good Outpaw. xD


AsafaasdfaSDFGASDFADFA...
You killed me.

----------


## RedBird

Oh my gosh, now I am in need of story where Jason adopts SEVERAL Dogs and forms his new team, 'Red Hood and the Outpaws'

----------


## Rac7d*

> Oh my gosh, now I am in need of story where Jason adopts SEVERAL Dogs and forms his new team, 'Red Hood and the Outpaws'


Sounds like John wick

----------


## RedBird

> Sounds like John wick


Excellent!

There could not have been a more better comparison than that. I love it.

----------


## Jackalope89

"Red Pooch and the Outpaws!"

----------


## RedBird

galliswelly

----------


## Sergard

> Oh my gosh, now I am in need of story where Jason adopts SEVERAL Dogs and forms his new team, 'Red Hood and the Outpaws'


Jason could go undercover as a dogsitter for a case and spend some quality time with a bunch of dogs.

----------


## Sergard

> Finally got the Batfamily Diorama Red Hood. Good figure, sculpting is fantastic but painting and details are so-so, and is really small (or at least for the scale I'm used to)


Where did you buy the figure? I'm thinking about buying it too but I'm not sure where to order it.

----------


## RedBird

moon115115

Marcus To

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Where did you buy the figure? I'm thinking about buying it too but I'm not sure where to order it.


I bought it on BBTS
https://www.bigbadtoystore.com/Produ...nDetails/88238

----------


## johnpeelgothisgun

> I bought it on BBTS
> https://www.bigbadtoystore.com/Produ...nDetails/88238


It's currently fluctuating at around US$60 at Amazon.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Well, Sean Murphy has officially started work on White Knight's third volume

https://twitter.com/Sean_G_Murphy/st...432001/photo/1

Tentatively titled, "Beyond The White Knight". Now how is this relevant for us? Well, last year he said on an interview with DC Daily that if given the chance, he would like to use White Knight's third volume to explore his version of Jason Todd. 




> "I would love to get to Jason Todd. One of the happy accidents of Volume 1 was I switched the order of the Robins so that Jason Todd was not killed, he just left," said Murphy. "I, sort of, wanted to touch on that. I'm not sure if I'm gonna fit that in Volume 2, maybe at the end. But if I ever get to do a third volume, maybe I'll tackle the Jason Todd thing."
> 
> However, Murphy said his plans weren't just set in the present, as he wants to link the mythos he created to the future Batman, Terry McGinnis. "I'd also like to eventually bridge the entire thing series into Batman Beyond. If you even look at how I designed my Batmobile, it's the same kinda shape of the Batman Beyond Batmobile," he added.


He also mentions Teryr McGinnis and going by the working title, he's indeed tackling that idea. Let's hope the Jason one is addressed as well.

----------


## Zaresh

> Well, Sean Murphy has officially started work on White Knight's third volume
> 
> https://twitter.com/Sean_G_Murphy/st...432001/photo/1
> 
> Tentatively titled, "Beyond The White Knight". Now how is this relevant for us? Well, last year he said on an interview with DC Daily that if given the chance, he would like to use White Knight's third volume to explore his version of Jason Todd. 
> 
> 
> 
> He also mentions Teryr McGinnis and going by the working title, he's indeed tackling that idea. Let's hope the Jason one is addressed as well.


Well, the Beyond in the title may point to Terry. But I wonder how it could work with Jason, to be honest. I would love to see Jason and Terry interact, but hummmm...

----------


## Sergard

kuri(@oldwhitebox)






Sae

----------


## Sergard

Paz(@ivokiku)

----------


## Sergard

zumaon





shafmosu




orquebleue

----------


## Sergard

> I bought it on BBTS
> https://www.bigbadtoystore.com/Produ...nDetails/88238






> It's currently fluctuating at around US$60 at Amazon.



Thank you both for your help. I ordered it via Amazon.
Shipping is a little expensive but it's still cheaper than ordering local.

I love the figure design. The posture looks so relaxed and natural.
I am also a fan of the little gargoyle. We all probably know why.  :Big Grin:

----------


## Sergard

Found on Reddit: I hope it's readable.

----------


## Zaresh

They keep putting Red Hood near that villain word... and I don't like where this premise could go. At all.

Also, I don't like that they are putting Cassandra in the same group, because she's clearly not a villain, and never has as far as I know.
Or, heck, even Rose, shouldn't be put in a place near the word "villain". She's a mess, she's not a good person, but I don't know if I could call her a villain.

This isn't giving me good vibes.

----------


## cc008

^^ I agree. I don't like that Red Hood is supposedly in a leading role of a book that's being described as "DC's Villains Rise in.." 

That puts him front and center. Almost synonymous with that word. Not big on that.

----------


## Restingvoice

I guess it's because Under The Red Hood is still his biggest story

----------


## Zaresh

> I guess it's because Under The Red Hood is still his biggest story


Even in that, he doesn't come across as a typical, crystal clear villain. He's an antivillain at worst, and a very gray vigilante and antagonist at best in there. It's for a reason that a lot of people sympathise with him to certain degree (often happens with antivillains. Look at Kaworu or Char Aznable), and why people like him to go in redemption story arcs. The most villainious he has been was under Morrison, or in Arkham Knight (and there too, he had some sort of redeeming point in the very end). (Edit: he did some awful stuff to Tim, I can give them that. His most villanious bits during Under the Hood and afterwards). Anyone who knows a bit about him in the comics knows that he's more an antihero with some sort of an attitude who goes dirty and hard than a villain (edit: who does bad deeds by seftinterest, pleasure or entertainment). Has been for a long while.

A villain is Vandal Savage, or Riddler, or Penguin. Or, heck, Catwoman could too, if you dislike burglary a lot lot (that's against law and she's not going to stop). If we're going to call him a villain, let's call Huntress one too, for example. Doesn't she kill too?

Edit: I don't know. Maybe this Jason is a villain. But main DCU isn't now; even when he's working with those kids, he's definitely neutral enough.

Edit: I mean, you're probably right and it's because of that. But it still shows that whoever's idea of Jason is that, I don't think they get the character well enough.

----------


## RedBird

I know when it comes to the fairly new artist of this series, Karl Mostert, I've seen his work compared to either Burnham or Quietly, of the latter he is a fan of.

But something I noticed is that his style and mainly the thin but uniform line work also kinda reminds me of Tony Moores art from the more famed zombie series The Walking Dead vol.1.



Karl Mostert


Tony Moore

----------


## Sergard

CBR article: 5 Red Hood Costumes We Love (And 5 We Hate)

The current costume design by Pete Woods is on the hate side (which I personally disagree with but I also disagree with pretty much 50% of the list).

Here's Pete Woods' reaction to the ranking:

Pete Woods CBR article part 1.jpg

Pete Woods CBR article part 2.jpg

Pete Woods CBR article part 3.jpg

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Are you kidding me!?

They count the Red Hood gang and the Criminal Red Hood one costumes despite not being worn by Jason _at all_ but not Medri's design?

Goddammit CBR.

----------


## Sergard

Tom Taylor has finished the script for Unkillables #2.

Tom Taylor Unkillables Issue 2.jpg

And if I'm interpreting the post by Karl Mostert correctly, Mostert has finished the line work for #1.

Kamo Mostert Unkillables.jpg

----------


## Zaresh

> Are you kidding me!?
> 
> They count the Red Hood gang and the Criminal Red Hood one costumes despite not being worn by Jason _at all_ but not Medri's design?
> 
> Goddammit CBR.


Meh, lists are silly, usually. I wouldn't give it too much thought.
Also, is that a Jason Todd list, or a Red Hood list? Because either you add the classic RH one (which Jason hasn't worn* at all) or you add the Red Robin costume.

----------


## RedBird

> CBR article: 5 Red Hood Costumes We Love (And 5 We Hate)
> 
> The current costume design by Pete Woods is on the hate side (which I personally disagree with but I also disagree with pretty much 50% of the list).
> 
> Here's Pete Woods' reaction to the ranking:
> 
> Attachment 89957
> 
> Attachment 89958
> ...


Around at least 60% disagreeable for me.

Glad to see Woods is taking it in stride, and interesting to hear his lament at having to change the classic look in the first place. (seriously I get his take was never going to surpass the OG design, even he knows it, but 3rd worst? It's still one of Jasons best main continuity outfits, at least compared to most the MC ones on this list.) Also Zaresh is right, is this a Jason list or a Red Hood list? If the latter, why is Red Robin there? If the former, why the Red Hood gang? 

Confusing.

----------


## Zaresh

> Tom Taylor has finished the script for Unkillables #2.
> 
> Tom Taylor Unkillables Issue 2.jpg
> 
> And if I'm interpreting the post by Karl Mostert correctly, Mostert has finished the line work for #1.
> 
> Kamo Mostert Unkillables.jpg


They're fast O.o.

----------


## Sergard

nockuth





zumaon

----------


## Sergard

Scott Cohn



Scott Cohn

----------


## Sergard

Dustin Lee Massey

_I got some of these guys in over the weekend. They are available on my shop at Facebook.com/artmassey101/. I reworked issue #3 of Robin II miniseries. I know it’s supposed to be Tim Drake but I used Titans actor Curran Walters and Joaquin Phoenix as references. I also changed a lot of the cards to sneak in references to past Jokers. Specifically Heath Ledger and the Animated series. Enjoy!_ 




Dustin Lee Massey

_So when I did the print giveaway I was new to it and forgot to make it US only. Two of my winners were from outside the US. To make it up to them I let them choose a cover and I would rework it. @ryuismymain chose Nightwing #105. This guy was already on my radar and I have been planning on doing the new Nightwing costume from Titans anyway. I used both actors from the show and changed the background._ 




Dustin Lee Massey

_I reworked issue #9 of Batman but it’s kind of a combination of several different covers that are very similar. Enjoy!_

----------


## Sergard

I'm still waiting for my copy of RH:O Vol 2: Prince of Gotham to arrive.
But judging by a twitter post, there is at least one discarded Jason design included.

----------


## Jackalope89

Yeah, not a fan of that design. Looks way too old for Jason. Glad they went with the one they used.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I'm glad Woods isn't in charge of designing stuff for the series anymore because nearly all the ones he did have been a bust.

----------


## Sergard

David Alegria




David Alegria

----------


## johnpeelgothisgun

> David Alegria
> 
> 
> 
> 
> David Alegria


Beautiful.

I wish this were being made into a statue.

----------


## Sergard

I received my copy of RHO Vol 2 Prince of Gotham today.
Here are all designs (sorry for the bad quality of the scan)

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I don't Woods' character designs much, but I have to admit he has good eye for interior design and furniture. Thanks for the scans!

----------


## Sergard

You're welcome!


On another note: I can't remember seeing those two sneak peeks in this thread, so sorry if this is double-posting:

David Messina

_"...sometime people are so upsetting!" Still @rexlokus doing his magic on my pencil and ink!

Red Hood #41_





Paolo Pantalena

_Guess on which cover I am working on?_

----------


## Zaresh

> You're welcome!
> 
> 
> On another note: I can't remember seeing those two sneak peeks in this thread, so sorry if this is double-posting:
> 
> David Messina
> 
> _"...sometime people are so upsetting!" Still @rexlokus doing his magic on my pencil and ink!
> 
> ...


Jason facepalming like no one is a classic at this point.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I guess Pantalena is the cover artist for issue 43.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Dustin Lee Massey
> 
> _I got some of these guys in over the weekend. They are available on my shop at Facebook.com/artmassey101/. I reworked issue #3 of Robin II miniseries. I know it’s supposed to be Tim Drake but I used Titans actor Curran Walters and Joaquin Phoenix as references. I also changed a lot of the cards to sneak in references to past Jokers. Specifically Heath Ledger and the Animated series. Enjoy!_ 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dustin Lee Massey
> 
> ...


Movement's stiff but otherwise good, it reminds me of those old Batman movie adaptation comics in the 90s. They also tend to have stiff poses and movements as if they're drawn by following a screenshot.

By the way what are you guys best and worst Red Hood costume?

My favorite is the classic Under The Red Hood black leather jacket white shirt red helmet combo and the brown jacket black armor/tights red helmet (without the lips)

(I kinda want to see what the brown jacket black armor looks like if he wears tights all the way instead of cargo pants. Probably not as good though since it will be top heavy)

The current one looks really well drawn with a full head of hair and muscular Jason, because that short sleeves work really well with muscular arms, though the logo not so much because tzitzi said it looks like Madagascar penguin and I can't unsee it.

I also really like the mob boss suit with the Mortal Kombat mask and domino mask combo that one variant cover shows.

Least favorite is the Morrison Batman and Robin era, though I dig the red guns, and of course Battle for The Cowl

Don't really like Wingman either. So bulky, and of course I don't like the lips helmet or the Iron Man helmet since it reminds me of Iron Man

Don't really like the DC YOU costume unless Rocafort draws it because the fold in his vest-hood-jacket thing makes him look fat sometimes.

I find the Arkham Knight costume too complex and has so many busy details so I don't like that either.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

My favorite costume is Medri's, the vest and the cargo pants make for a utilitarian approach while the helmet has the perfect amount of detail without going Handsome Squidward. 

Then is a tie between the Rebirth and the N52 (sans handsome Squidward helmet of course)

The UTRH one

Then Woods' Poor man Ermac

A power gap

Morrison's Pill Helmet.

----------


## Zaresh

Mine would be the look he had in Countdown, which isn't much different from the UtH one.

I like Morrison's red hood costume, it's pretty in my eyes, even if it's, er, absolutely not practical, and tone deaf for the character previous story and tone (what a surprise). His Batman costume in BftC was awful.

I like a lot of lots the Rebirth one, way better than the one he had in N52 even when they're really look alike. I have a neutral opinion about the RH/A costume, and I love the Arkham Knight costume but I dislike the white and red Red Hood costume in the DLC. I don't like Wingman's costume, and I've grown to like the current look. The formal suit in the previous arc was stylish, loved it. I don't like the Hush design a lot, but coats are cool. And I'm neutral to the costume for the 3 Jokers.

----------


## Sergard

> Jason facepalming like no one is a classic at this point.


Indeed. Iconic facepalm:

Batman Robin 10 Jason Todd facepalm.jpg

----------


## Sergard

Matteo Scalera

----------


## hova4life

That's beautiful but kinda reminds me of Mortal Kombat!

----------


## Sergard

JJMK (Talon Dick and Jason)

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> That's beautiful but kinda reminds me of Mortal Kombat!


Ultimately that is the biggest problem of Woods' design, unless is colored, the first thing that brings to mind is MK ninjas. Lacks on its own of anything that really brings up to mind Jason or Red Hood. Having the Red Bat would've helped immensely with that, but they had to go with that dumb emblem that is meaningless.

----------


## Arsenal

Woods’ proposed Prince of Gotham design reminds me of Tony Stark.

----------


## Sergard

Scott Cohn





Scott Cohn

----------


## Sergard

I wonder when or if Alfred's fate will be mentioned in RH:O.




nockuth

----------


## Jackalope89

> I wonder when or if Alfred's fate will be mentioned in RH:O.


You can be sure someone will get a bullet in them for it.

----------


## Sergard

> You can be sure someone will get a bullet in them for it.


Like who?
I just hope that Artemis and Bizarro will be back (to normal) when Jason gets the news.
He'll need the emotional support.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Like who?
> I just hope that Artemis and Bizarro will be back (to normal) when Jason gets the news.
> He'll need the emotional support.


Maybe Bruce for letting things get to that point, and granddaddy Wayne himself for doing it.

----------


## Arsenal

Who do you think is gonna tell him? Bruce again?

----------


## Zaresh

> Like who?
> I just hope that Artemis and Bizarro will be back (to normal) when Jason gets the news.
> He'll need the emotional support.


Barbara, maybe? Or Kate. I can see Babs being the one to deliver the news to both Dick and Jason (once Dick recovers his memories, which I'm guessing could finally happen towards the middle or end of next year summer), and then she's another of the lead characters in the 3 Jokers story; so maybe someone could suggest her.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Who do you think is gonna tell him? Bruce again?


Babs, maybe?

----------


## Sergard

> Who do you think is gonna tell him? Bruce again?


Hard to tell.
My guess is Kate since she tried to comfort Jason about Roy's death too.
Who even already  knows about Alfred?

----------


## Sergard

I have just read the Batman/Superman Annual #1 from March 2014 and I liked it a lot.
Batman, Red Hood and Batgirl teaming up with Superman, Steel and Supergirl is an amazing combo.
And Red Hood fighting alongside Jochi, the son of Mongul, felt like an indirect sequel to "For the Man Who Has Everything" -  Superman Annual #11 (1985).
I also liked the scenes with Jason and Kara. They have an interesting dynamic together.

Does anyone know if Jason has another appearance in Batman/Superman?
I'm sad that Jochi died at the end of the annual. I would have liked to see more stories with him and Jason.

----------


## Restingvoice

> I have just read the Batman/Superman Annual #1 from March 2014 and I liked it a lot.
> Batman, Red Hood and Batgirl teaming up with Superman, Steel and Supergirl is an amazing combo.
> And Red Hood fighting alongside Jochi, the son of Mongul, felt like an indirect sequel to "For the Man Who Has Everything" -  Superman Annual #11 (1985).
> I also liked the scenes with Jason and Kara. They have an interesting dynamic together.
> 
> Does anyone know if Jason has another appearance in Batman/Superman?
> I'm sad that Jochi died at the end of the annual. I would have liked to see more stories with him and Jason.


Yeah, it's the Savage Dawn arc when Superman lost his powers, alongside Batgirl and Grayson.
No... Wait... the arc name is Truth Hurts. Savage Dawn is after that, in Superman... or Action Comics. I forgot.
There was Truth, Before Truth, Truth Hurts, Lies, and Savage Dawn... in all Superman books, and with titles like that I forgot which is which.
He appeared as a surprise reveal in the last panel of #26 and continue to #27

----------


## Zaresh

No idea. I remember reading it, it's the reason why I liked the idea of Kara teaming with Jason: they had chemistry there. But no idea if there's anything more beyond that little story.

Edit: ah, I was a bit too late.

----------


## Sergard

> Yeah, it's the Savage Dawn arc when Superman lost his powers, alongside Batgirl and Grayson.
> No... Wait... the arc name is Truth Hurts. Savage Dawn is after that, in Superman... or Action Comics. I forgot.
> There was Truth, Before Truth, Truth Hurts, Lies, and Savage Dawn... in all Superman books, and with titles like that I forgot which is which.
> He appeared as a surprise reveal in the last panel of #26 and continue to #27


Thanks for the information.
I think I actually remember the story - or at least snippets.
Jason is wearing his Red Hood/Arsenal design.
But I can't really recall the details except that Scandal Savage was involved/on his way.

----------


## Jackalope89

> No idea. I remember reading it, it's the reason why I liked the idea of Kara teaming with Jason: they had chemistry there. But no idea if there's anything more beyond that little story.
> 
> Edit: ah, I was a bit too late.


In canon, don't know. For shippers? I've ran into several fanfics with Jason and Kara. Not too many, but some. Most likely inspired by it.

Edit: Just took a look at it. Very "interesting" art.

----------


## Sergard

> In canon, don't know. For shippers? I've ran into several fanfics with Jason and Kara. Not too many, but some. Most likely inspired by it.


I don't think chemistry immediately means romance.
I feel like Jason and Kara could be good friends.

----------


## Aahz

> I also liked the scenes with Jason and Kara. They have an interesting dynamic together.


There was also a guest appearance of Jason in Supergirl shortly after this.

----------


## Aahz

> Hard to tell.
> My guess is Kate since she tried to comfort Jason about Roy's death too.


he and Kate are not particularly close. 

I think the ones on best terms with him are probably Tim, Barbara and Duke, the relationship with Bruce and Damian is probably not that great at the moment, and he hadn't had that much interaction with Kate, Helena and Cassandra sofar, and Dick is still Ric.

----------


## Sergard

> There was also a guest appearance of Jason in Supergirl shortly after this.


There's also this little scene from Gotham City Garage:

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Full numbers tomorrow, but the Acetate gimmick helped issue 40 to get into the top 100.

91. RED HOOD OUTLAW #40 ACETATE (DC COMICS)

----------


## Zaresh

> I don't think chemistry immediately means romance.
> I feel like Jason and Kara could be good friends.


It could go both ways for me, either friendship or romance, I wouldn't mind one over the other. They just worked ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.



> he and Kate are not particularly close. 
> 
> I think the ones on best terms with him are probably Tim, Barbara and Duke, the relationship with Bruce and Damian is probably not that great at the moment, and he hadn't had that much interaction with Kate, Helena and Cassandra sofar, and Dick is still Ric.


To be fair, Jason doesn't have a close relationship with any of the other batfamily members. Barbara, and Tim if people don't mind that they can work together fine despite Jason having a troubling relationship with him (I don't, these are comics; but some people do). Those two are the closest outside Bruce and Alfred. I think Tim is crossed out of this, because I don't think they're going to use him: he's supposedly somewhere else outside the main universe/dimension/whatever. I still have a hard time believing they used him in Batman (but apparently, this happens before YJ. Or something). And not even Babs or Tim have that much of a closer relationship, but they sure have more history with him than Dick, Damian, Kate or Steph. Edit: or Cass.

Being cut from the original Robin because editorial issues, then dead years and years, then an antagonist, et cetera, makes that to a character.

----------


## Jackalope89

At the very least, I wouldn't mind seeing them as friends. Obviously Kara wouldn't be for Jason "working" for Lex and whatnot, but looking out for misfit kids that believe they want to be villains and making sure they don't get in over their heads? Yeah.

----------


## Gotham citizen

I have just started to read "Red Hood & the Outlaws" and I must say it is good! You feel immediately the difference among an old school writer like Lobdell and the "new school writers", who stretch the story in too many issue. The story goes right to the point, concentrating all the dialogues in the minimum necessary number of panels and avoiding the superfluous dialogues. The only critique I can do is: I would prefer if Lobdell had use other characters of the Bat-family, like Huntress, Spoiler, Orphan (if they are available) instead of Bizzarro and Artemis, because I prefer stories more detective focused for the Gotham titles, but it is only a personal taste.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I have just started to read "Red Hood & the Outlaws" and I must say it is good! You feel immediately the difference among an old school writer like Lobdell and the "new school writers", who stretch the story in too many issue. The story goes right to the point, concentrating all the dialogues in the minimum necessary number of panels and avoiding the superfluous ones. The only critique I can do is: I would prefer if Lobdell had use other characters of the Bat-family, like Huntress, Spoiler, Orphan (if they are available) instead of Bizzarro and Artemis, because I prefer stories more detective focused for the Gotham titles, but it is only a personal taste.


Outlaws isn't so much "detective" based as it is adventure based.

----------


## Zaresh

> Outlaws isn't so much "detective" based as it is adventure based.


And I think we can say that it's marginally a batbook half the time.
Glad you're enjoying it, *@Gotham citizem*. Welcome to our small corner of the boards  :Smile: .

----------


## Sergard

I'd actually like some guest appearances of Huntress, Cass and Steph (without Tim).
But I don't think they would work as a standard cast for RHatO.
Huntress main team are the Birds of Prey. Steph is heavily associated with Tim, and Cass was part of the Gotham Knights and is currently part of the Outsiders.

----------


## Aahz

> At the very least, I wouldn't mind seeing them as friends. Obviously Kara wouldn't be for Jason "working" for Lex and whatnot, but looking out for misfit kids that believe they want to be villains and making sure they don't get in over their heads? Yeah.


Kara is at the moment anyway one of the Infected ...

----------


## Sergard

> Kara is at the moment anyway one of the Infected ...


I totally forgot about the Infected storyline - although there was even an advertisement for it in the last RH:O issue.
I'm surprised how easy it is to completely ignore the main part of the Year of the Villain event or anything connected to the Batman Who Laughs.
I don't mean that YotV or the BWL are bad concepts. YotV actually looks interesting. But I'm glad that RHatO isn't interrupted by tie-ins like New52 RHatO or Red Hood/Arsenal.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I totally forgot about the Infected storyline - although there was even an advertisement for it in the last RH:O issue.
> I'm surprised how easy it is to completely ignore the main part of the Year of the Villain event or anything connected to the Batman Who Laughs.
> I don't mean that YotV or the BWL are bad concepts. YotV actually looks interesting. But I'm glad that RHatO isn't interrupted by tie-ins like New52 RHatO or Red Hood/Arsenal.


Well, this time around, it is happening, but marginally so far.

----------


## Zaresh

> I totally forgot about the Infected storyline - although there was even an advertisement for it in the last RH:O issue.
> I'm surprised how easy it is to completely ignore the main part of the Year of the Villain event or anything connected to the Batman Who Laughs.
> I don't mean that YotV or the BWL are bad concepts. YotV actually looks interesting. But I'm glad that RHatO isn't interrupted by tie-ins like New52 RHatO or Red Hood/Arsenal.


I couldn't agree more. It's why I'm not fond of all those events every few months.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

91. RED HOOD OUTLAW #40 (DC) - 21,864 [101]
52. RED HOOD OUTLAW VOL 02 PRINCE OF GOTHAM (DC) - 1,172 [102]
460. RED HOOD AND THE OUTLAWS VOL 01 REDEMPTION (DC) - 224 [1048]

I'm surprised that Vol 1 of the N52 run cracked the top 500. Other than that, the expected boost from the Acetate gimmick.

https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...9/2019-11.html

----------


## Gotham citizen

> I'd actually like some guest appearances of Huntress, Cass and Steph (without Tim).
> But I don't think they would work as a standard cast for RHatO.
> Huntress main team are the Birds of Prey. Steph is heavily associated with Tim, and Cass was part of the Gotham Knights and is currently part of the Outsiders.


I see, they weren't available.
Anyway I named those characters because I thought it was a team of characters trained by Batman, but that they don't agree with his methods, because they think they are in a war and a war can be won only by the less scrupulous army. So I thought to Huntress, Orphan or Spoiler (if I remember well Batman said one of the two was too violent) and also Azrael (even if I don't know what happened to him) could be a good roster for this kind of title. In this way the title would have a very strong identity and the writers could have create some interesting stories, emphasizing the divergences among the Outlaws and Batman & Co (Nightwing, Batgirl…) with some crossover and/or some apparition of  Batman & Co like guest star. I don't want say the book is without identity or the roster isn't good, because I read only the first ten issue, but this is what I thought the book was and I think it might be a good idea for a title.

----------


## Sergard

Sae



zumaon

----------


## Sergard

bibyami




Hayden Cockrill




Benny Spiegel-Chen

----------


## Sergard

Benny Spiegel-Chen

----------


## Sergard

I wonder if _Detective Comics_ #1017 contains an artistic reference to Jason: Preview.
I read the preview before I read the summary. So my first impression was that there are a lot of themes that remind me of Jason.
Then I read the summary - it's a Damian story. So Jason will definitely not appear.
Maybe it's better this way. I definitely don't need a third story this year in which Damian attacks Jason for no good reason.

----------


## brenster21

> I totally forgot about the Infected storyline - although there was even an advertisement for it in the last RH:O issue.
> I'm surprised how easy it is to completely ignore the main part of the Year of the Villain event or anything connected to the Batman Who Laughs.
> I don't mean that YotV or the BWL are bad concepts. YotV actually looks interesting. But I'm glad that RHatO isn't interrupted by tie-ins like New52 RHatO or Red Hood/Arsenal.


Don't forget about Event Leviathan an event that completely reshaped the DC universe. :P




> I couldn't agree more. It's why I'm not fond of all those events every few months.


I completely agree with you, the constant events really get annoying since they rarely amount to anything interesting. heck somehow apex Luthor is going to revert back to human at the end of the villain of the year so he can be an anti-villain in doomsday clock and not thrown right back in prison. and the whole Leviathon thing is swept under the rug, leaving Mark shaws four fanboys sad.

----------


## Sergard

> I see, they weren't available.
> Anyway I named those characters because I thought it was a team of characters trained by Batman, but that they don't agree with his methods, because they think they are in a war and a war can be won only by the less scrupulous army. So I thought to Huntress, Orphan or Spoiler (if I remember well Batman said one of the two was too violent) and also Azrael (even if I don't know what happened to him) could be a good roster for this kind of title. In this way the title would have a very strong identity and the writers could have create some interesting stories, emphasizing the divergences among the Outlaws and Batman & Co (Nightwing, Batgirl…) with some crossover and/or some apparition of  Batman & Co like guest star. I don't want say the book is without identity or the roster isn't good, because I read only the first ten issue, but this is what I thought the book was and I think it might be a good idea for a title.


I think Cass actually agrees with Batman's methods. She definitely follows his No-killing-rule. Cass is also younger than pre-Flashpoint.
Cass and Stephanie are probably both minors in this continuity.
Azrael was also part of the Gotham Knights (together with Cass, Batwoman, Red Robin, Clayface and Batwing) and is currently a main character in Justice League Odyssey.

I personally prefer it when Jason's team members are not part of the batfamily. This way, Jason's character - and the book in general - is more independent of the Batman franchise.
The batfamily members also have all a similar skill set. Some stories could be difficult to tell. A batfamily members team-up is, in my opinion, a better concept for a mini-series or event books like Eternal.

----------


## RedBird

careamorran

----------


## Jackalope89

> careamorran


With jacket looks better than without in this one.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I think Cass actually agrees with Batman's methods. She definitely follows his No-killing-rule. Cass is also younger than pre-Flashpoint.
> Cass and Stephanie are probably both minors in this continuity.
> Azrael was also part of the Gotham Knights (together with Cass, Batwoman, Red Robin, Clayface and Batwing) and is currently a main character in Justice League Odyssey.
> 
> I personally prefer it when Jason's team members are not part of the batfamily. This way, Jason's character - and the book in general - is more independent of the Batman franchise.
> The batfamily members also have all a similar skill set. Some stories could be difficult to tell. A batfamily members team-up is, in my opinion, a better concept for a mini-series or event books like Eternal.


Yeah, Cass is pretty hard "no killing" last I checked. And a shame she was made younger than Jason in this continuity. Them being near the same age still reigns supreme in the fanfics I've seen that have the two of them.

But otherwise, yeah. Jason works best in his book with non-Bat family members, though I do believe in the occasional cameo. Like when Kate and Renee did when Jason was in that little farm town. Or Dick in the Rebirth annual. Aside from that, the Bats should just be mentioned at most within the Outlaws book.

----------


## RedBird

> I see, they weren't available.
> Anyway I named those characters because I thought it was a team of characters trained by Batman, but that they don't agree with his methods, because they think they are in a war and a war can be won only by the less scrupulous army.So I thought to Huntress, Orphan or Spoiler (if I remember well Batman said one of the two was too violent) and also Azrael (even if I don't know what happened to him) could be a good roster for this kind of title. In this way the title would have a very strong identity and the writers could have create some interesting stories, emphasizing the divergences among the Outlaws and Batman & Co (Nightwing, Batgirl…) with some crossover and/or some apparition of  Batman & Co like guest star. I don't want say the book is without identity or the roster isn't good, because I read only the first ten issue, but this is what I thought the book was and I think it might be a good idea for a title.


Within the roster of Outlaws, I'd say that having methods that differ from Batman is not the main connective tissue for the RHATO cast. It's more so that the characters are outcasts who can relate to each other more importantly on an emotional level, rather than a moral one. It's why they often have a strong family dynamic. Of course the morality of the characters is an important factor still and all of them having some moral ambiguity supports the whole 'outlaws' theme, but aside from Jason, the morality of the characters and the purpose of the book has never been something that solely revolved itself around Batman, and being the 'Batman and co' that the rest of the batfam could never be.

Besides, if people really are after a 'Batman and Co'. book with a different cast, then that's what the 'Batman and the Outsiders' book is for. The only thing that book is missing is the Batman main cast guest stars, but the book is still in its early issues, so who knows, that may come eventually.

----------


## Gotham citizen

I understood that, I was simply explaining what I thought to find in the book; but that doesn't mean I don't love it, on the contrary I think it is good.

P.S. Maybe if I had write I expected something between Punisher and the Outsiders, I would be more clear, but doesn't matter.

----------


## Restingvoice

> I see, they weren't available.
> Anyway I named those characters because I thought it was a team of characters trained by Batman, but that they don't agree with his methods, because they think they are in a war and a war can be won only by the less scrupulous army. So I thought to Huntress, Orphan or Spoiler (if I remember well Batman said one of the two was too violent) and also Azrael (even if I don't know what happened to him) could be a good roster for this kind of title. In this way the title would have a very strong identity and the writers could have create some interesting stories, emphasizing the divergences among the Outlaws and Batman & Co (Nightwing, Batgirl…) with some crossover and/or some apparition of  Batman & Co like guest star. I don't want say the book is without identity or the roster isn't good, because I read only the first ten issue, but this is what I thought the book was and I think it might be a good idea for a title.


Huntress is the one Batman said was too violent, but that was in the 90s when she's still violently hunting mafia, seducing Nightwing, and trying hard to be acknowledged by Batman, prevented by both Bruce and her own personality. They're both stubborn. She got better, mellowed a bit, then actually considered part of the fam in the later years, but then the reboot happened. 

The current Huntress is also more violent than the people she teams up, but also older, more experienced, and has no interest in Batman. She started out as a high ranking spy, fell for Dick Grayson but called it off since she knows he only has eyes for Barbara Gordon, and then inspired to be a superhero to hunt down the mafia who killed her family, ended up in Gotham and joining the Birds of Prey.

Batman found Spoiler too reckless and inexperienced in the 90s and wanted her to stop because she started to be Spoiler to arrest her father, but after he was arrested she's still acting vigilante. Post-reboot, she's had training by Tim, Dick, Catwoman, Batman himself and Batwoman, so he has no problem with her. _She_, however, has a problem with him because their method causes a lot of victims or more people turning into crime.

----------


## RedBird

> I understood that, I was simply explaining what I thought to find in the book; but that doesn't mean I don't love it, on the contrary I think it is good.
> 
> *P.S. Maybe if I had write I expected something between Punisher and the Outsiders, I would be more clear, but doesn't matter.*


Funny that, you know, 'Punisher and the Outsiders' sounds pretty close to what the book was going to be back when the New52 was being planned. If I recall correctly, (Dark feel free to correct me if I'm wrong  :Stick Out Tongue: ) Judd Winicks original pitch was much darker and grittier with what I can only assume was a much more heavy emphasis on the outlaws grey morality.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Funny that, you know, 'Punisher and the Outsiders' sounds pretty close to what the book was going to be back when the New52 was being planned. If I recall correctly, (Dark feel free to correct me if I'm wrong ) Judd Winicks original pitch was much darker and grittier with what I can only assume was a much more heavy emphasis on the outlaws grey morality.


It sounds like the Outlaws book I wanted to read. (I didn't enjoy the New 52 Outlaws book because I was expecting something darker and grittier, though Starfire's presence should've clued me)

----------


## Aahz

At least in Kings Run Huntress is again portrait as part of the Batfamily.

The biggest problem I see with such a team up is that most of the Batgirls have a pretty strong connection to one of the other Robins. Barbara and Helena with to Dick and Cass and Steph to Tim, so many fans would not be happy if they and up in team book with Jason.

I but I would like to see more team up story arcs with Jason and Batfamily members he hasn't teamed up with yet (with Damian and Cass being the ones I would like to see most).

----------


## RedBird

> It sounds like the Outlaws book I wanted to read. (I didn't enjoy the New 52 Outlaws book because I was expecting something darker and grittier, though Starfire's presence should've clued me)


I recall lamenting the same thing, but, in the end I don't think it would have worked out anyway. Winick left his DC titles early on in the New52 (sometime mid 2012 if I recall) in order to pursue his aspirations to create more child friendly content. Rhato probably would have been left hanging anyway.

----------


## Zaresh

> It sounds like the Outlaws book I wanted to read. (I didn't enjoy the New 52 Outlaws book because I was expecting something darker and grittier, though Starfire's presence should've clued me)


Of what I remember, it sounded so edgy and forced the characters so much, that it was definitely the book I didn't want to read. Jason by Winick was bordering the levels of violence and clenched edges I can tolerate; but as far as I recall, the  idea was just too much. Not that it didn't make sense for him: this was pre-FP Jason, red head Jason, if I'¡m not mistaken. But, eh....
If I were to like a Punisher-esque book, I would read Punisher. Which I don't, because I usually don't like. You guys know well that I hate when people compare both, so I guess it comes as a surprise to none here. But ey, I do like vigilantes, hardboiled, tough, morally grey ones. I mean, I'm all for Moon Knight, or The Shadow, stuff like that. Look at the Tales of franchise: Yuri is by far my favourite main character (because he's just that cool and felt definitely different), but Velvet? Too much, felt like the dream of an angsty teenager.

----------


## RedBird

My bad. Ignore this post.

----------


## RedBird

Just letting you guys know.

Jason won 'Best Comeback Villain of the Year' in _Harley Quinn: Villain of the Year_.

----------


## RedBird

Some more panels for context.

----------


## Jackalope89

> At least in Kings Run Huntress is again portrait as part of the Batfamily.
> 
> The biggest problem I see with such a team up is that most of the Batgirls have a pretty strong connection to one of the other Robins. Barbara and Helena with to Dick and Cass and Steph to Tim, so many fans would not be happy if they and up in team book with Jason.
> 
> I but I would like to see more team up story arcs with Jason and Batfamily members he hasn't teamed up with yet (with Damian and Cass being the ones I would like to see most).


Cass? Eh, maybe down the line sometime. Damian?
Yeah, that's not going to happen anytime soon. The youngest Robin royally screwed up any chance of that for the time being.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Some more panels for context.


Jason and Selina? Well, Jason I can believe. Honestly, half-surprised HE isn't doing what a certain bird-brain is. Selina though, just seems so out of place.

----------


## Zaresh

> Some more panels for context.


I was going to show my indignation about Jason being judged as a villain (edit: not really, really), buuuuuuuuuuuuut..
I have to say, those panels are hilarious. And kind of on point.
And he's The Best, so, whaaaatever ^_________^.
Edit: right. Selina too. Way to be arbitrary with this villain cathegory, what the heck

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Just letting you guys know.
> 
> Jason won 'Best Comeback Villain of the Year' in _Harley Quinn: Year of the Villain_.





This costume sucks and I can't wait for it to be retired.

----------


## Zaresh

I just realized that, by "villain", they probably mean "rogue". Not quite the same, but that could fit both Selina and Jason for me.

(And now I'm going to go play my modded Skyrim after four (4) days of warring with that nightmare of a venture).

----------


## Jackalope89

Anyway, Fanfic time!

5 chapters in, and "Latchkey" is an interesting take. Why? Because it focuses on Tim following (and supporting) Batman and Jason Todd Robin from "behind the scenes" (though the Bats seem fully aware of his knowledge anyway).

True, I wouldn't classify myself as a Tim fan, but I don't hate him. In this, Jason takes him under his wing, and acts as a big brother to the neglected Tim. So, yes. A fluff story, but good in its own right.

----------


## RedBird

> This costume sucks and I can't wait for it to be retired.


Fatality...


Side note, was the hood just loose and tucked into the tuxedo or actually stitched on, that's what I wanna know XD

----------


## Zaresh

> Anyway, Fanfic time!
> 
> 5 chapters in, and "Latchkey" is an interesting take. Why? Because it focuses on Tim following (and supporting) Batman and Jason Todd Robin from "behind the scenes" (though the Bats seem fully aware of his knowledge anyway).
> 
> True, I wouldn't classify myself as a Tim fan, but I don't hate him. In this, Jason takes him under his wing, and acts as a big brother to the neglected Tim. So, yes. A fluff story, but good in its own right.


Related to that kind of story, "Chirp" is a fanfic that I'm currently following and is about a kid Tim helping Batman and Robin (well, more like trying to). It started with Dick as Robin, but has been about Jason for a few chapters already; and it's a fun, safe for work read.

"Like a Good Neighbor", too, kind of fits the same themes, even if it's a young adult Tim, and he's not really helping Robin: more like the opposite, actually (because this is Damian as Robin. But he kind of helps a certain bat, namely, Jason. Kind of. Well, relatively kind of. Ok, maybe it's not that much like the other story). It's mostly safe for work so far (teen audience), but it's JayTim shipping. That being said, it's really good: well written and very fun.

I'm currently trying (as in, "let's see what comes from this madness") to write a crossover fic between the DCU and the TES universe. I've like, one chapter published in AO3; but I already have the next one half-way done. Maybe I'll update it tomorrow or this weekend. I'm having too much fun writing this story, to the point that it's kind of addictive. If only I had more time! In case you guys want to give it a try, it's here: Snowberries and Maple Wood It's in English. You can guess it's going to sound a bit awkward (I have some broken English issues). And I also kind of have a problem with purple prose, to be honest. But it's probably going to be teen aimed most of the time, and I don't want to go into deep romance territory, of any sort, yet.

And now, I'm going to play that game.

----------


## cc008

I like the MK Ninja costume because I love the MK Ninjas. But I totally get why people don't like it. I prefer the helmet anyway as well.

----------


## Sergard

> Some more panels for context.


Who is the woman next to Jason?

----------


## Sergard

chingsty




Javechan





I didn't know that Jason Todd (Curran Walters) has a cameo in Crisis on Infinite Earths.

----------


## Jackalope89

It was very brief.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Who is the woman next to Jason?


It looks like Talia. Even though the costume is not accurate to the green one she often wears now, but it reminds me of her.

----------


## Sergard

> It looks like Talia. Even though the costume is not accurate to the green one she often wears now, but it reminds me of her.


Talia was my first guess too because the costume reminds me of her.
My second guess is Rose Canton/Rose and Thorn because this character is actually a redhead and is often portrayed with a dark/unusual lipstick color.

----------


## RedBird

> Who is the woman next to Jason?


Not sure...
The red hair and green/dark lipstick makes me think of Circe though.

----------


## RedBird

> I like the MK Ninja costume because I love the MK Ninjas. But I totally get why people don't like it. I prefer the helmet anyway as well.


Yeah same, I like the outfit fine for what it is. It's certainly not my favorite by any means, but it's not Jasons worst outfit either.

----------


## RedBird

> I was going to show my indignation about Jason being judged as a villain (edit: not really, really), buuuuuuuuuuuuut..
> I have to say, those panels are hilarious. And kind of on point.
> And he's The Best, so, whaaaatever ^_________^.


Right?  :Big Grin: 
Like as ridiculous and nonsensical as the premise is behind this comic, his response is hilarious and still kinda accurate.
Jason won a villainous award, received praise, and then essentially told the room of villains to shove it! and to start counting their days XD

----------


## Rise

> Some more panels for context.


This was pretty hilarious and got a laugh out of me.

And of course Batman who laughs was voted as the villan of the year. Fans really love him for some reason.

----------


## Zaresh

> Right? 
> Like as ridiculous and nonsensical as the premise is behind this comic, his response is hilarious and still kinda accurate.
> Jason won a villainous award, received praise, and then essentially told the room of villains to shove it! and to start counting their days XD


As he would do! XD

----------


## Sergard

Tyler Kirkham (process video of the speed painting)

----------


## Jackalope89

This is how the Bat Family SHOULD be;

----------


## AmiMizuno

So a highly dysfunction family that still love each ohter.

----------


## Jackalope89

> So a highly dysfunction family that still love each ohter.


Yep. As it is now, they can't even get to the first part (for a variety of reasons). 

Alfred is dead (and seemed to let Bruce go nutso on Jason). Jason and Tim haven't really interacted since Rebirth, if not before. Dick is still "Ric" (enough said there). Jason has barely interacted with Steph and Cass (period). And Damian is probably only 2nd on Jason's list of non-villains that he hates now. The top being taken by Bruce.

----------


## AmiMizuno

> Yep. As it is now, they can't even get to the first part (for a variety of reasons). 
> 
> Alfred is dead (and seemed to let Bruce go nutso on Jason). Jason and Tim haven't really interacted since Rebirth, if not before. Dick is still "Ric" (enough said there). Jason has barely interacted with Steph and Cass (period). And Damian is probably only 2nd on Jason's list of non-villains that he hates now. The top being taken by Bruce.


I wonder how long this Ric thing will last. I wonder if it should be a good thing or bad that they aren't interacting. I mean all family needs space.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Even if I think the Villain of the Year contest was dumb, I do appreciate the implict acknowledgment from editorial that yes, Jason is one of DC's more popular characters.

----------


## Zaresh

> Even if I think the Villain of the Year contest was dumb, I do appreciate the implict acknowledgment from editorial that yes, Jason is one of DC's more popular characters.


That 4th wall commentary of Harley is gold. Again, on point and hilarious.
Who wrote these pages?

----------


## RedBird

> That 4th wall commentary of Harley is gold. Again, on point and hilarious.
> Who wrote these pages?


The writer was Mark Russell, I'm not all that familiar with his previous work but I just looked him up and he is currently writing for the Wonder Twins.

----------


## Zaresh

> The writer was Mark Russell, I'm not all that familiar with his previous work but I just looked him up and he is currently writing the for Wonder Twins.


Aaahhhh, that makes a lot of sense. Thank you.

----------


## RedBird

Just got this from the other thread...




> https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2019/1...ans-partner-in
> 
> The Robin 80th Anniversary 100-Page Super Spectacular #1 is a prestige format comic book retailing for $9.99 and available on March 11, 2020.
> 
> This instant collectible includes stories from of comics’ greatest Robin writers, paying tribute to the character in various guises, including Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Tim Drake, Stephanie Brown and Damian Wayne. The Talent list for these stories reads like a who’s-who list of comic luminaries, such as Marv Wolfman, Tom Grummett, Chuck Dixon, Scott McDaniel, Devin Grayson, Dan Jurgens, Norm Rapmund, Tim Seeley, Tom King and Mikel Janin, James Tynion IV, Peter J. Tomasi, Judd Winick and others.
> 
> In addition to a dynamic cover by Lee Weeks, hardcore fans and collectors can also look forward to eight variant covers spotlighting Robin throughout the decades, drawn by some of comics’ premiere artists:
> 
> 1940’s variant cover by Jim Lee and Scott Williams
> ...


Apparently even Winick is returning for this one...

I wonder if he will be writing a story for Jason?

----------


## Sergard

> Yep. As it is now, they can't even get to the first part (for a variety of reasons). 
> 
> Alfred is dead (and seemed to let Bruce go nutso on Jason). Jason and Tim haven't really interacted since Rebirth, if not before. Dick is still "Ric" (enough said there). Jason has barely interacted with Steph and Cass (period). And Damian is probably only 2nd on Jason's list of non-villains that he hates now. The top being taken by Bruce.


I don't think Jason "hates" Bruce or Damian.
Before he died, Jason loved Bruce like a father - and love doesn't vanish this easily.
It also kind of shows in RH:O #27 when Jason initiates the hug.
But being attacked by the best father figure he ever had in life - and then being attacked by the "blood son" - and then being attacked by father and blood son can leave an ugly mark.
This will be hard to fix for Bruce - and Damian will probably never try.

----------


## RedBird

> I don't think Jason "hates" Bruce or Damian.
> Before he died, Jason loved Bruce like a father - and love doesn't vanish this easily.
> It also kind of shows in RH:O #27 when Jason initiates the hug.
> But being attacked by the best father figure he ever had in life - and then being attacked by the "blood son" - and then being attacked by father and blood son can leave an ugly mark.
> *This will be hard to fix for Bruce - and Damian will probably never try.*


And with the way comics go, you can make a good bet that it will never be addressed.

----------


## Sergard

> And with the way comics go, you can make a good bet that it will never be addressed.


I hate it when "heroes" do bad stuff and don't have to face any consequences.
Being a well-known hero or the son of a well-known hero (as mentioned in another thread I don't consider anyone in the batfamily a hero, but most people would probably label Batman and Co. heroes) shouldn't be a free pass on everything.

----------


## RedBird

> I hate it when "heroes" do bad stuff and don't have to face any consequences.


That....has been, quite a big factor deterring me away from Batmans main books.

----------


## RedBird

> Apparently even Winick is returning for this one...
> 
> I wonder if he will be writing a story for Jason?


Maybe that's a clue...? Maybe

----------


## Sergard

> Maybe that's a clue...? Maybe


You mean a clue, that Judd Winick is going to write a Jason story?
Or a clue that it will be a Robin Jason story?
Or a clue that it will be a story connected to the Under the Red Hood story arc?

----------


## Restingvoice

Seeley and King confirmed they'll be returning to write Grayson, so yeah, I think Winnick's definitely writing Jason. It's anniversary time.

----------


## RedBird

> You mean a clue, that Judd Winick is going to write a Jason story?
> Or a clue that it will be a Robin Jason story?
> Or a clue that it will be a story connected to the Under the Red Hood story arc?


A clue that he will be writing a story for Jason.

He has replied to confirmations of his involvement with the book using gifs of Jason, like the one I posted before and this one.




But as of yet, he is also not fully confirming it.

----------


## RedBird

> I think Winnick's definitely writing Jason. It's anniversary time.


Who else but the writer that pretty much defined him post-death, right?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

> Who else but the writer that pretty much defined him post-death, right?


I'd argue that at this point is Lobdell the one who did that. Winnick set the foundations but it was Lobdell who ultimately succeeded.

Anyways, solicits are out. The untitled are back, retconning more from Tynion's run.

RED HOOD: OUTLAW #44
written by SCOTT LOBDELL
art and cover by PAOLO PANTALENA
variant cover by PHILIP TAN
When tracking down an ancient evil that can hide in anyone, Red Hood and his Outlaws have to surreptitiously sniff out their enemy by similarly hiding in plain sightAre you ready for the Outlaws to go undercover? The Untitled are unlike any foe theyve ever faced, so if the Outlaws are going to win, theyre going to need to improvise!
ON SALE 03.25.20
$3.99 US | 32 PAGES
FC | DC
This issue will ship with two covers.
Please see the order form for details.




And the Unkillables #2 solicit confirms Jason teaming up with Cassandra.

DCEASED: UNKILLABLES #2
written by TOM TAYLOR
art by KARL MOSTERT and TREVOR SCOTT
cover by HOWARD PORTER
card stock variant cover by FRANCESCO MATTINA
horror movie homage card stock variant cover by BEN OLIVER
With the world ending around them, Red Hood and Batgirl take shelter in the most unlikely place: an orphanage full of children! Will they be able to protect the kids from the impending hordes of the infected streaming out of Gotham City and Blüdhaven? And elsewhere, Deathstroke, Vandal Savage, and some of DCs worst villains battle the apocalypse out as an Anti-Suicide Squad. But a certain wondrous woman may not let them have it their own way!
ON SALE 03.18.20
$4.99 US | 2 OF 3 | 48 PAGES
CARD STOCK COVERS $5.99 US
FC | DC
This issue will ship with three covers.
Please see the order form for details.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I'd argue that at this point is Lobdell the one who did that. Winnick set the foundations but it was Lobdell who ultimately succeeded.
> 
> Anyways, solicits are out. The untitled are back, retconning more from Tynion's run.
> 
> RED HOOD: OUTLAW #44
> written by SCOTT LOBDELL
> art and cover by PAOLO PANTALENA
> variant cover by PHILIP TAN
> When tracking down an ancient evil that can hide in anyone, Red Hood and his Outlaws have to surreptitiously sniff out their enemy by similarly hiding in plain sight…Are you ready for the Outlaws to go undercover? The Untitled are unlike any foe they’ve ever faced, so if the Outlaws are going to win, they’re going to need to improvise!
> ...


Okay, that makes sense for Jason and Cass. Not villains, but just so happen to be stuck _with_ villains while looking out for a bunch of kids.

----------


## RedBird

> I'd argue that at this point is Lobdell the one who did that. Winnick set the foundations but it was Lobdell who ultimately succeeded.


I get what you're saying, but it's not a matter of 'at this point' though, I'm not going by the amount, or variations of development. Lobdell has definitely given Jason the much needed development he needed, and further shaped his character, not arguing against that, I know, I agree. 

It's why I said Winick '_defined_' Jason. To define is to outline, to set the limit. Jason's character, his wit, his voice, his morality, his personality were all set by Winick. Lobdell has used those definitions to shape Jason even further, to some extent, _redefined_ him, if you will. But when all is said and done, he wouldn't even be the character he is today and exist as he does without Winicks writing. 

Winick pretty much _created_ the adult version of Jason.


With all that said though, (assuming Winick is returning for Jason in this book) I honestly wonder how his Jason will feel now in comparison to Rebirth Jason. Jason now in some ways is just, so much more _open_ than he was with Winick, much more open to other people, expressing emotions in a healthy way, expressing empathy. And in some ways, he is also more reserved now. Not quite as dramatic about getting his way, a little insecure and much more humbled by his past actions. Though, maybe the story he chooses to write will just be set around the UTRH era? *shrugs*.

EDIT: The solicit for that Robin anniversary names quite a few writers followed by 'and others'. I wonder if Lobdell will be part of those 'others'.

----------


## RedBird

> And the Unkillables #2 solicit confirms Jason teaming up with Cassandra.
> 
> DCEASED: UNKILLABLES #2
> written by TOM TAYLOR
> art by KARL MOSTERT and TREVOR SCOTT
> cover by HOWARD PORTER
> card stock variant cover by FRANCESCO MATTINA
> horror movie homage card stock variant cover by BEN OLIVER
> With the world ending around them, Red Hood and Batgirl take shelter in the most unlikely place: an orphanage full of children! Will they be able to protect the kids from the impending hordes of the infected streaming out of Gotham City and Blüdhaven? And elsewhere, Deathstroke, Vandal Savage, and some of DCs worst villains battle the apocalypse out as an Anti-Suicide Squad. But a certain wondrous woman may not let them have it their own way!
> ...


Yay! but also, uh oh. Wasn't this the script that Tom Taylor described as 'so messed up'.

I'm not liking the odds for the fate of those orphans.

----------


## RedBird

> Anyways, solicits are out. The untitled are back, retconning more from Tynion's run.
> 
> RED HOOD: OUTLAW #44
> written by SCOTT LOBDELL
> art and cover by PAOLO PANTALENA
> variant cover by PHILIP TAN
> When tracking down an ancient evil that can hide in anyone, Red Hood and his Outlaws have to surreptitiously sniff out their enemy by similarly hiding in plain sight…Are you ready for the Outlaws to go undercover? The Untitled are unlike any foe they’ve ever faced, so if the Outlaws are going to win, they’re going to need to improvise!
> ON SALE 03.25.20
> $3.99 US | 32 PAGES
> ...


Cool to see Pantalena still on the book, though with that solicit at first I thought it sounded kinda generic, but on further inspection...

Don't suppose this will have something to do with Essence like the cover on #43 implied? Maybe trapping her caused havoc with the Untitled.
Also, is that why Isabel is on the cover of #43 reaching for the sword whilst Artemis and Biz hold Jason back? Is she going to be one of the first characters we see being controlled by, 'an ancient evil that can hide in anyone'.

----------


## Restingvoice

Yo can those cover artists calm down a bit with the muscles? I like buff Jason but dang.

----------


## RedBird

> Yo can those cover artists calm down a bit with the muscles? I like buff Jason but dang.


He may have left his pistols behind, but with arms like that, I guess he still had his 'guns' XD

I'm surprised he hadn't flexed and torn several jackets by now Haha

----------


## Zaresh

> Yo can those cover artists calm down a bit with the muscles? I like buff Jason but dang.


Yeah. I'm not a fan either, but what can we do?

----------


## Zaresh

> Maybe that's a clue...? Maybe


I just hope it's not an overly "angsty" story that puts more blame on Jason for his own death. I'm tired of those, and will never sit me right. So far, Winick was just the right side of the line. I hope he stays that side :/.

(Sorry for the doubleposting, I'm on my tablet arriving home)

Edit: at home, finally.
I want to also comment, that I think that it's going to be a story about Jason in his Robin's days. I suspect all the stories, or most of them, are going to be actual "Robin" stories. Mostly, because Steph is listed. Which is weird, because she hasn't been one in our current continuity, even if she knows she was in some other timeline. So maybe the current timeline will be "corrected" by them.

By the way: Jason and children, at this point, is starting to be some sort of a continuity thing. We had the bit about children in Under the Hood, the other bit about that children trafficker in Lost Days (probably the murdering that caused most impact for me), Scarlet during Morrison's Dickbats, and then these teenager and to certain extent, Bizarro. And now, Taylor. And there's a ton of fanfics that toy with that trope, too. I'm starting to see some pattern.

----------


## RedBird

> I want to also comment, that I think that it's going to be a story about Jason in his Robin's days. I suspect all the stories, or most of them, are going to be actual "Robin" stories. Mostly, because Steph is listed. Which is weird, because she hasn't been one in our current continuity, even if she knows she was in some other timeline. So maybe the current timeline will be "corrected" by them.
> 
> By the way: Jason and children, at this point, is starting to be some sort of a continuity nod. We had the thing about children in Under the Hood, the other bit about that children trafficker in Lost Days (probably the murdering that caused most impact for me), Scarlet during Morrison's Dickbats, and then these teenager and to certain extent, Bizarro. And now, Taylor. And there's a ton of fanfics that toy with that trope, too. I'm starting to see some pattern.


I was hoping for Robin stories for them all, but Seeley and King mention that they are creating a 'Grayson' story for this book, which could indicate that the writers aren't restricted to only Robin stories.

Also to add to that list, don't forget the child labour sweat shop from Batman Eternal #18. Kate and Babs are there too, but Jason is the only one that gets a distinct reaction from seeing the kids.






EDIT: ooh also, this one isn't really as strong of an example, BUT, around the very beginning of Rebirth, when Ma Gunn revealed that her school for boys was torched down and was meant to have the children inside (and only didn't out of sheer luck) that's the moment Jason claimed he wanted to kill Roman and that kinda became a driving force that made Jason throw himself into the investigation of Black Mask.

----------


## Zaresh

> I was hoping for Robin stories for them all, but Seeley and King mention that they are creating a 'Grayson' story for this book, which could indicate that the writers aren't restricted to only Robin stories.
> 
> Also to add to that list, don't forget the child labour sweat shop from Batman Eternal #18. Kate and Babs are there too, but Jason is the only one that gets a distinct reaction from seeing the kids.


I missed that one. I had some vague memories of there being a few during New 52, but I couldn't remember any of them.

Didn't knwo about the one from King and Seeley being a Grayson story. I guess that opens the desk of cards, yeah.

----------


## Sergard

Will there be more than one Jason story in the Robin 80th Anniversary?

----------


## Arsenal

Doubt it, but I’m just glad we’re even getting one at all.

----------


## Zaresh

> Will there be more than one Jason story in the Robin 80th Anniversary?


It's Dick's actual anniversary, so I guess he will have more than the other four. Also, it's going to be featuring 5 main characters, so I wouldn't count with more than one for each character. Maybe Damian get's two, at least, what with being the current Robin. How many stories could have the whole special? And how many writers? I guess we can play a guessing game. 

More or less confirmed.
Winick for Jason.Seeley and King for Dick. Grayson era, it seems. These two go with Janin, I guess.

And now, some guessing:
Marv Wolfman and Tom Grummett, it's maybe an easy one for Dick? It would fit, one for Dick as Robin, I guess.Chuck Dixon could be either Dick, or Tim, or both. I would prefer Tim honestly. By the announcement, it seems that the penciler paired with him is Scott McDaniel. Maybe it's Dick as Nightwing.Tomasi and Jurgens, I guess these two are pretty clear Damian's team.Devin Grayson, I have no idea. I don't think they will give her another Dick story, so maybe she's the one for Steph. No idea, honestly.James Tynion IV is going to be Timmy's, I think that one's a safe bet.Norm Rapmund, no idea.

----------


## RedBird

> Doubt it, but Im just glad were even getting one at all.


Yeah, my guess is its either gonna be majority Dick stories OR majority Dick and Damian stories, first robin and current Robin.

With only 100 pages between 5 characters, I wouldn't expect more than one story for Jason at this stage.

----------


## Zaresh

> Yeah, my guess is its either gonna be majority Dick stories OR majority Dick and Damian stories, first robin and current Robin.
> 
> With only 100 pages between 5 characters, I wouldn't expect more than one story for Jason at this stage.


We have seven (well, technically, eight) writers. So, unless there are more team ups for the script, I guess that's the number of stories that issue is going to give us.

----------


## Aahz

- With Dixon, an team up of Tim and Dick would be great, he wrote both for a really long time, but he is also created Stephanie Brown
- Wolfman could also be Tim, he created him after all, but Dick seems more likely
- Devin Grayson is very likely Dick, she doesn't have much of a history with any other Robin

----------


## Zaresh

> - With Dixon, an team up of Tim and Dick would be great, he wrote both for a really long time, but he is also created Stephanie Brown
> - Wolfman could also be Tim, he created him after all, but Dick seems more likely
> - Devin Grayson is very likely Dick, she doesn't have much of a history with any other Robin


1. Could be the case, it didn't occurred to me, but it would make sense.
2. Mmm, I still think Dixon is more likely for Tim than Wolfman.
3. I know, but, unless Tynion is writing Steph (which, to be honest, isn't unlikely. Now that I think about it, it could be the case), I don't know where to put her.

Buuuuut, if we put Tynion in Steph, and Dixon (or Wolfman, like you pointed out) in Tim, that could open the place for Grayson in Dick.

----------


## Konja7

> 1. Could be the case, it didn't occurred to me, but it would make sense.
> 2. Mmm, I still think Dixon is more likely for Tim than Wolfman.
> 3. I know, but, unless Tynion is writing Steph (which, to be honest, isn't unlikely. Now that I think about it, it could be the case), I don't know where to put her.
> 
> Buuuuut, if we put Tynion in Steph, and Dixon (or Wolfman, like you pointed out) in Tim, that could open the place for Grayson in Dick.


In fact, Chuck Dixon seems to have a strong attachment to Stephanie (to the point he won't read stories about her by other writers). So, I think it is possible he will write the story about Stephanie.

----------


## Zaresh

> In fact, Chuck Dixon seems to have a strong attachment to Stephanie (to the point he won't read stories about her by other writers). So, I think it is possible he will write the story about Stephanie.


I see. I didn't know that.
Ah, so many factors. I wonder when we will know more.

----------


## AmiMizuno

I wonder how do we describe Jason's relationship with his Batfam? I don't know I often thought it acted as the middle child.  He is angry but not really. Doesn't want to show emotion but cares.

----------


## Zaresh

> I wonder how do we describe Jason's relationship with his Batfam? I don't know I often thought it acted as the middle child.  He is angry but not really. Doesn't want to show emotion but cares.


It's complicated.
Depends on the time and the member. He's usually there nowadays I guess; except for Bruce, after their recent fight, it seems. Actually, he hasn't been in contact with them since then, except to tell out to Bruce in the Iceberg (RHATO), fight Damian's acusations (TT), or being hunt by Bruce and Damian (Leviathan). He talked with Barbara to tell her that he wasn't going to met Bruce with them in that issue of Batman that ended with Bruce punching Tim, and he seemed definitely uninterested in the familial drama there, but not hostile. And Kate met him in his book when he was alone in the South and they seemed kind of friendly, or in friendly enough terms. So... well... In civil-friendly terms I guess, except for Bruce and Damian, for them it depends on how they approach him.

----------


## Sergard

> I'd argue that at this point is Lobdell the one who did that. Winnick set the foundations but it was Lobdell who ultimately succeeded.
> 
> Anyways, solicits are out. The untitled are back, retconning more from Tynion's run.
> 
> RED HOOD: OUTLAW #44
> written by SCOTT LOBDELL
> art and cover by PAOLO PANTALENA
> variant cover by PHILIP TAN
> When tracking down an ancient evil that can hide in anyone, Red Hood and *his Outlaws* have to surreptitiously sniff out their enemy by similarly hiding in plain sightAre you ready for the *Outlaws to go undercover*? The Untitled are unlike any foe theyve ever faced, so if the Outlaws are going to win, theyre going to need to improvise!
> ...


Does Outlaws mean only Bizarro and Artemis or is Generation Outlaw also sticking around?
I hope the teens don't get dismissed and forgotten. I like them a lot.
I wonder if the undercover work will lead to the return of "Mr. Spanky".  :Smile: 
But it's already awesome to see the return of the Untitled.

----------


## Sergard

sdimo





sdimo




JJMK

----------


## Sergard

remina(@akkiyamia)




glitter_dc




posa

----------


## Sergard

inkydandy

_And thats a wrap for Jasons Very Long Night that started here._ (and here are part 2 and part 3)

----------


## Sergard

inkydandy (continuation)

----------


## Sergard

inkydandy (last artwork)

----------


## AmiMizuno

I mean has is it with Dick or Tim?

----------


## RedBird

Random thought, I know, but man...
After looking through my comics, I had honestly forgotten how much I loathed the new52 face mask. There were some really horrid takes with that. 
Only Rocafort ever made it seem okay during his run, but it was a mess for pretty much everyone else.

I am honestly so so much more happy with the rebirth helmet, which is basically the UTRH animated film helmet with slight tweaks here and there. I think it's my favorite.

One of the tweaks I've noticed with the Rebirth helmet in comparison with the UTRH film is subtle, but I really like it for some reason.

The bottom lining of the face mask has changed from being straight.



to being slightly curved at the corners, almost giving a 'fanged' look.

----------


## RedBird

Continue...




I love Dexter Soy's version but technically I guess Giuseppe Camuncoli brought it into rebirth. He did after all design the character sheet for rebirth and the first arcs covers.

----------


## RedBird

Continue...

BUT before that, the first one I can recall was from Tyler Kirkham during DCYOU. His version is another one I adore.





Not 100% sure if can recall it appearing before that, at least in the comics.

----------


## Zaresh

> Continue...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love Dexter Soy's version but technically I guess Giuseppe Camuncoli brought it into rebirth. He did after all design the character sheet for rebirth and the first arcs covers.


It looks like out of some 20's adventure book, except, of course, because those are pretty modern gun holsters, and the helmet is, well, moderm. But I could easily see this design working with a simple domino mask, a bandana hanging his neck and some more era-fitting gun equipment. Oh, and I guess the shin guards would look different. More eawhide and leather all around, I guess.

----------


## RedBird

> It looks like out of some 20's adventure book, except, of course, because those are pretty modern gun holsters, and the helmet is, well, moderm. But I could easily see this design working with a simple domino mask, a bandana hanging his neck and some more era-fitting gun equipment. Oh, and I guess the shin guards would look different. More eawhide and leather all around, I guess.


Any specific books that come to mind?

I know its's not 1920s, but with that description you gave of swapping the helmet out for a domino mask and bandana on this blue 'jumpsuit' design, all that popped into my head was the Lone Ranger. XD

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

How fast you guys forget about RB Silva's take.

----------


## Zaresh

> Any specific books that come to mind?
> 
> I know its's not 1920s, but with that description you gave of swapping the helmet out for a domino mask and bandana on this blue 'jumpsuit' design, all that popped into my head was the Lone Ranger. XD


Yeah, not 20's but... something like that. It reminded me of some I've glanced through on the net, or the old pulps that my grandad had (and were either translations from 20's pulps, or at the time cheap national copies of those. Most were cowboy stories. He just loved them. They were popular in the 50's I think); or my granduncle's, when I was a little girl (he was more into general adventure). I can't give a name of any novel for saving my life, though.

----------


## RedBird

> How fast you guys forget about RB Silva's take.


Oh my goodness!
That's right! I truely forgot RB Silva's helmet. 
So it was Silva who first struck gold with that design.  :Big Grin: 

Though I think this one has a more squared off edge rather than the sharp edge. (Unless any other contenders show up)  Major props to Silva for the helmet and starting the distended and pointed mouth look. Thats a great design, the entire helmet is great, I love it. Just technically, so far I think Kirkham was still the first one that added that current and more sharp 'fang' look I was talking about, but the rest of the helmet definitely looks like Silva's doing. Like damn, even the double lining that goes through the whole thing is exactly as it is in Rebirth.

----------


## Jackalope89

Yeah, the face one just never worked. But the UTRH one and the ones similar to it, do. Something to be said about simplicity, in other words; Keep It Simple, Stupid (KISS)!

----------


## Zaresh

Oh, off topic, but kind of related and it may be interesting for someone here. The Internet Archive has a dedicated corner for pulp magazines. The Pulp Magazine Archive. Many of them are open to read without an ID (which is why someone like myself can access to them, despite not being an user of they librarian system). Just in case, be wary that some of those covers contain adult stuff, like nudes and the like.

----------


## Restingvoice

> How fast you guys forget about RB Silva's take.


So now that we agree on which Red Hood mask looks the best but the next question is...
Solid or fabric?
Semi-transparent plastic or glass-like or non-transparent?
Reflective or not?

----------


## RedBird

Oh solid for sure, no question.

And I guess moreso plastic and fiber glass as opposed to just glass, although I can't say I have much of an idea of what materials would make for a strong helmet.

And I like it a bit reflective, but not too much. Similar to the video game red hood helmets of Arkham Knight and injustice 2. Or the shiny Dexter Soy Red Ronin designed helmets.  Enough so that it has a nice sheen to it that light bounces from in a very defused way, but not enough to see a distinct clear reflection of yourself on the material.

----------


## Zaresh

> So now that we agree on which Red Hood mask looks the best but the next question is...
> Solid or fabric?
> Semi-transparent plastic or glass-like or non-transparent?
> Reflective or not?


Some parts, the ones that need to be more shielding and where articulations go, should be solid. Solid, but strong and lightweight.
Some other parts, they need to be flexible. Maybe most of the cover for the face but parts like the forehead, the jaw and the nose.
I think that it should be a bit shinny, but not too much. Like amber or resine.

----------


## Jackalope89

Yep, solid is a must. 

A fiber-glass/metal combination would be my guess (some give, but still sturdy like what's used in the military). Some reflection, obviously, but not to the point where it reflects light even in dark places (ambush is still a key tactic of Jason's).

----------


## Restingvoice

I'm gonna add bulletproof now that I think about it.

----------


## RedBird

That's also a must have for Jason.  :Big Grin: 
Fiberglass, steel, kevlar and certain plastics could work I think, and still be styled into a sweet helmet.

----------


## Restingvoice

Also acid-proof. For Joker. Is it acid proof already? I only remember the acid being inside the helmet that one time, but what about the outside?

Crowbar-proof will be asking a lot... but I got this funny image of Joker trying to break it and it just goes CLANG CLANG CLANG and Jason just stands there nonchalantly

----------


## Zaresh

> That's also a must have. 
> Fiberglass, steel, kevlar and certain plastics could work I think, and still be styled into a sweet helmet.


Mmm, I wouldn't add metal, mostly because the weight and heat tolerance. Polymers would be, for me.

----------


## RedBird

Oh yeah, you're right about the metal

----------


## AmiMizuno

I mean can he get along mostly with Dick or others(expect Bats) Should he?

----------


## Jackalope89

> I mean can he get along mostly with Dick or others(expect Bats) Should he?


Well, before the "Ric" fiasco, Jason and Dick were getting along fine. Rebirth Annual 1 actually had Dick appear in it to help the Outlaws. 
Babs and Kate, Jason is on good terms with. Tim, hard to say. The two haven't interacted for some time now. Notably since Superman Reborn (which did reset a number of things throughout the comics).

----------


## Aahz

> Tim, hard to say. The two haven't interacted for some time now. Notably since Superman Reborn (which did reset a number of things throughout the comics).


I think they met the last time during "A Lonley day of Living".
There is at least no reason why they should be on bad terms now.

In the new talent showcase from 2017 he was also on good terms with Selina and Duke.

----------


## RedBird

Was just looking over the 80th Robin anniversary book solicitations again and looks like Carrie is also part of the line-up (the previous solicitation didn't mention her).

I was 50/50 before, but now I'm fairly sure that the 80s variant cover by FRANK MILLER will be one for Carrie.
Which could possibly mean that Jason isn't getting his own cover, assuming the covers are meant to depict Robins by their decade.

I didn't see their names in the line up, but I'm kinda feeling nostalgic for Mahnke and Haun's work now.

----------


## Sergard

> Was just looking over the 80th Robin anniversary book solicitations again and looks like Carrie is also part of the line-up (the previous solicitation didn't mention her).
> 
> I was 50/50 before, but now I'm fairly sure that the 80s variant cover by FRANK MILLER will be one for Carrie.
> Which could possibly mean that Jason isn't getting his own cover, assuming the covers are meant to depict Robins by their decade.
> 
> I didn't see their names in the line up, but I'm kinda feeling nostalgic for Mahnke and Haun's work now.


I have to admit that I didn't notice Carrie.
That's why I thought that the 80s variant cover would be Jason - and was confused that Frank Miller is the artist.
Frank Miller is known for Carrie. I don't think he's ever drawn main continuity Robin Jason or Red Hood Jason.
So yes, I agree. Frank Miller will probably draw a variant with Carrie.
Which also leads to the conclusion that there won't be a Jason variant. At least not among the decade variants.

----------


## Restingvoice

There could be a group shot

----------


## Sergard

> There could be a group shot


That's something I would have liked for the main cover.

----------


## Sergard

Scott Cohn (colored version)

----------


## RedBird

> I mean can he get along mostly with Dick or others(expect Bats) Should he?


His relationships with the Batfamily seem to range from civil to decent, or sometimes even friendly. I'm only going from New52 onwards, and based on the adult (Red Hood) version of Jason.

Overall, he can get along fine with Dick, at first they were simply civil enough and kept each other at arms length but ultimately as time went on, it showed that they can work well together and can have friendly interactions that sometimes border on playful. They seem to have a bit of an understanding of one another.

He can also get along with Babs as well, and although Babs was more hostile towards to him at the start of new52, they were able to bond in later years, with Jason providing emotional support to Babs during their times together, and they had found some semblance of camaraderie. On rare occasions she has reached out to Jason (via phone) for either help or to help him. However, they don't actively converse or work together. Not since Batman Eternal.

Jason has also bonded somewhat with Tim, in fact (besides Alfred or Bruce) Tim was the first batfam member in New52 that seemed to have began a civil relationship with Jason and had extended an olive branch to him. If my memory serves me well, I think he was also the first member of the family that was shown to work with Jason one on one, even if it was only for intel. Moving beyond that, in the field they seem to work well together and have enough trust in one another, and at times even give each other emotional support. But sometimes there's also a small touch of hostility with their interactions, not something that reduces their ability to work together though, I think it's more hostility that comes from a sense of familiarity. Though personally I have trouble distinguishing whether it is meant to depict 'brotherly/sibling-like hostility' you know, like a sense of family annoyance, or more so that Tim doesn't actually _enjoy_ working alongside Jason, but just does so for the sake of the mission.

Jason and Kate's relationship has ranged from being kinda civil early on, but she was still dismissive of him during their time in Batman Eternal when they had to work together. Then she was downright antagonistic in Rhato Rebirth #15 when she preemptively suspected him of wrongdoing. And then in Red Hood Outlaw #29, they were forced to work together again and did so with much less hostility. She actually apologized for her previous mistake (a rarity in batfam comics these days  :Stick Out Tongue: ) and they kinda got along just fine after woulds. For such a quickly up and down duo they ended up working quite well together and maintained a civil back and forth interaction, even giving some emotional support to one another. 

With Jason and Damian, their relationship has been somewhat difficult. At times they can be fairly civil and work together for the sake of the mission, especially when the family is grouped together, but often Damian is either dismissive of Jason, similar to how Kate and Babs initially were, or he is hostile. When the hostilities drop they have actually proven to work well together, and make for a good team, such as in Batman Inc when they were disguised as Wingman and RedBird, until Damian found out Jason was Wingman, and he once again became hostile. There's seems to be a pattern emerging with their interactions. I think as he does with most of the batfam members, Jason seems willing to have a civil and even perhaps friendly relationship with Damian, but almost every time it seems their relationship may progress or become more than just a civil or 'work' interaction, Damian immediately pushes Jason away and shows some form of hostility once again. 

Jason seems to get along decently with Duke and for a small period of time, has even mentored him, they have a back and forth that is filled with quips and light jabs. 

Jason also seems to get along just fine with Selina, they don't speak to each other much, but they seem to be on relatively good terms.

Although Cass and Jason started off almost killing each other in Batman and Robin Eternal due to a misunderstanding, they haven't really interacted since. They don't seem to have any sort of relationship.

Same goes for Steph, who only ever had a small argument with Jason once and then didn't really interact with him again.

Jason seems to be on friendly terms with Alfred. They don't get too many on screen interactions, but what few they do get either show and/or insinuate that Jason and Alfred visit each other often, even outside of vigilante business. They are usually seen showing each other emotional support, well more so Alfred than Jason. And Alfred seems to be the person Jason unloads some of his issues onto when he needs someone to listen. 

As far as the New52/Rebirth and on wards goes, usually Jason is willing to co-operate and work alongside the batfam, and although most of the family are understandably wary of working with him at first, as time goes on and as long as they allow room for a bit of trust, they end up working well together, and can maintain friendly enough relations. However, despite all the friendly interactions I don't think, besides maybe Alfred, Jason really has anyone in the family that he trusts like an actual 'friend' or that he would ever actively spend quality time with outside of vigilante work.

----------


## RedBird

Oh I have another question in regards to Jasons helmets.

Voice modifier or no voice modifier? Or both?

I use to like it with none but I've really come around to the slight computerized vocals. I think I also like having the best of both worlds and the idea that it can be turned on and off.

For audio comparisons, the Under The Red Hood animated film and also the Arkham Knight version of Red Hood had none if I recall.

And three distinct audio examples that I can think of where Jason definitely had the voice modifier are:

First the Arkham Knight version. I like it all round, it can sound intimidating, inhuman, and is fine for those grand monologues and growled threats. Basically fine for the purpose it served, but as a regular part of Jasons helmet, it is however a touch too garbled for my liking. It sounds like it would be difficult to hold a regular conversation with.

Next example was the Injustice 2 video game Red Hood, again, I liked it, but imo I think it was a bit too faint and subtle to make a difference or any real impact. I had to rewatch some Red Hood intros just to recall whether or not it was even there.

Final example, and possibly my favorite of the three, just because I think its a medium that maintains some balance between the other two examples of being more clearly and _distinctly_ computerized to give that intimidation factor whilst also not sounding quite as distorted or garbled. Can't believe I'm saying it but, I think, Lego Batman: Family Matters Red Hood had the better balance.

Also just to note, I only didn't count any lego based video games Red Hood featured in just because there's not enough audio voice examples there outside of a few lines.



What do you guys think? What do you prefer for the helmet? And if you are pro-voice modifier, are there examples of voice modifiers that you would prefer outside of the ones I mentioned?

----------


## Fergus

I wouldn't even call Alfred a friend to Jason since Alfred stood by and never said peep when Bruce beat Jason to a pulp and dragged him across Gotham.

He didn't voice any concerns when Bruce left Jason out of the family portrait.

Alfred isn't anyone but Bruce's pal. Maybe Dick's.

The Batfamily get along as co-workers at best not really a family with some who can't stand others [Damian loathes Jason and Jason tried to corrupt Damian encouraging him to steal from Bruce]

Individual sections relate but calling them family is a Joke.

Sections are
Tim, Cass, Steph, Duke

Bruce, Dick, Damian, Babs, Alfred

Jason and Kate float while Alfred relates to everyone but only cares for Bruce and Dick. Damian too I guess since he's at times shown to call Bruce out regarding him.

----------


## Zaresh

I can't believe they're not going to give Jason a variant. Personally, I don't care, but, huh. There's a lot of people out there that would purchase that one. It's a weird choice.

Unless these covers only depict a generic, timeless Robin. Or a group shot, like you guys said.

----------


## Sergard

> I can't believe they're not going to give Jason a variant. Personally, I don't care, but, huh. There's a lot of people out there that would purchase that one. It's a weird choice.
> 
> Unless these covers only depict a generic, timeless Robin. Or a group shot, like you guys said.


Maybe there'll be other covers.
I'm sure there'll be at least some shop exclusive ones. But that's not really an option for me.

Do we already know the artist of Judd Winick's story?

----------


## Restingvoice

> What do you guys think? What do you prefer for the helmet? And if you are pro-voice modifier, are there examples of voice modifiers that you would prefer outside of the ones I mentioned?


Usually, I would but since pretty much everyone knows that Red Hood is Jason Todd from Batman villains to international agencies hunting him, there's no point to it... unless that part has been retconned... but even when they don't know he's real name they know his face. 

Jason can be quippy so I don't know if intimidating voice modulator fits. Maybe just a different voice but still sounding like a 20 year old man

----------


## Sergard

> Usually, I would but since pretty much everyone knows that Red Hood is Jason Todd from Batman villains to international agencies hunting him, there's no point to it... unless that part *has been retconned*... but even when they don't know he's real name they know his face. 
> 
> Jason can be quippy so I don't know if intimidating voice modulator fits. Maybe just a different voice but still sounding like a 20 year old man


I didn't even know that this was canon at some point.
The last story arc at least clearly showed that Penguin didn't know that Jason Todd and Red Hood are the same person.

----------


## RedBird

> The Batfamily get along as co-workers at best not really a family with some who can't stand others [Damian loathes Jason and Jason tried to corrupt Damian encouraging him to steal from Bruce]


Damian doesn't loathe him, he would never work alongside him if he did. Damian just doesn't fully trust Jason is all, he works with him at times but is often suspicious of Jasons actions and his intentions. The distrust often ends up stunting development between them and the potential to grow beyond a work relationship. I personally think a good story and a situation where they are forced to work together and help one another to survive would help to bridge the gap between them.

Also what? Corrupt Damian? Encouraging him to steal from Bruce? Damian had already stolen the base from Bruce himself and justified it with the fact that it would be his one day anyway, and when Jason said that that may be considered stealing, he said he didn't care. Jason didn't take any issue with how Damian was doing things, they were working to capture the Other, but he didn't corrupt him to steal. Damian had already stolen it himself, he made his own choices.

----------


## Zaresh

> Oh I have another question in regards to Jasons helmets.
> 
> Voice modifier or no voice modifier? Or both?
> 
> (...)
> 
> What do you guys think? What do you prefer for the helmet? And if you are pro-voice modifier, are there examples of voice modifiers that you would prefer outside of the ones I mentioned?


I like both, an on and off option is ideal for me. I liked the modulator in Arkham Knight, but something that just adds some statics to his voice, like what the MC in The Mandalorian has, could be nice. Something to add some texture to the voice.




> Maybe there'll be other covers.
> I'm sure there'll be at least some shop exclusive ones. But that's not really an option for me.
> 
> Do we already know the artist of Judd Winick's story?


Not to my knowledge, we don't.

----------


## Jackalope89

Yes to the modulator, with an on/off switch (of some sort). 

As for Jason and Damian...

Damian is a great character, but its always seemed to be Jason reaching out to team up with him, only to have Damian betray him (somehow) later on. But it seems with Damian's betrayal at the bar, and later on in Leviathan (even with how badly he was written in it), and Bruce not really questioning Damian the second (and beating Jason up in RHATO), Jason isn't coming back into that fold anytime soon. I can seem him working with Kate (again), Tim, Duke, and maybe Dick if he ever turns back to normal. But the Waynes...

----------


## RedBird

> Yes to the modulator, with an on/off switch (of some sort). 
> 
> As for Jason and Damian...
> 
> Damian is a great character, but its always seemed to be Jason reaching out to team up with him, only to have Damian betray him (somehow) later on. But it seems with Damian's betrayal at the bar, and later on in Leviathan (even with how badly he was written in it), and Bruce not really questioning Damian the second (and beating Jason up in RHATO), Jason isn't coming back into that fold anytime soon. I can seem him working with Kate (again), Tim, Duke, and maybe Dick if he ever turns back to normal. But the Waynes...


It might take some time, I hope eventually there will be a writer who will take the time to flesh the relations out into something more positive. 
Also I wonder if Jason and Bruces strained relationship will be addressed in some way by Bendis in his upcoming Leviathan sequels. He did make claims that the situation of what occurred in 'Event Leviathan' would affect Jason in some way. Surely the false accusation will be a topic of interest.

----------


## Jackalope89

> It might take some time, I hope eventually there will be a writer who will take the time to flesh the relations out into something more positive. 
> Also I wonder if Jason and Bruces strained relationship will be addressed in some way by Bendis in his upcoming Leviathan sequels. He did make claims that the situation of what occurred in 'Event Leviathan' would affect Jason in some way. Surely the false accusation will be a topic of interest.


Bendis didn't even touch on his own character conflicts (like why Jor-El was suddenly back, and Lois and Jon felt it was okay to go with him, and now Jor-El died back on Krypton, no questions answered). And honestly, I don't want Bendis touching anymore characters I like. He ruined the Super books for me.

The best I can say for his Jason portrayal, was he wasn't mugged, but characterization was bland at best (and raised so many questions of WHY Jason was there anyway).

----------


## RedBird

> Bendis didn't even touch on his own character conflicts (like why Jor-El was suddenly back, and Lois and Jon felt it was okay to go with him, and now Jor-El died back on Krypton, no questions answered). And honestly, I don't want Bendis touching anymore characters I like. He ruined the Super books for me.
> 
> The best I can say for his Jason portrayal, was he wasn't mugged, but characterization was bland at best (and raised so many questions of WHY Jason was there anyway).


That's fair but, I admit though I liked the characterization and dialogue from Jason. I enjoyed the conversation between him and Bruce leading up to the reveal that he was under suspicion as well the conversation between him and Lois, and I'm gonna be controversial here, but it felt pretty IC to me. I didn't realize just how much I had really wanted Jason and Lois to interact up until that point. 

I haven't read Super comics for myself so I'll take your word on that. 
But regardless, he most likely will be writing for Jason again soon, to some degree. Like always, hope for the best. 

_
'You had mentioned Batgirl, and there was Jason Todd. So are we going to revisit them in Leviathan Dawn?

Yes, 100%. This hit everybody on different levels. Some it hit very personally, some it hit thematically, like, Leviathan was against their principals on every level that something has to be done and a lot of people feel like Leviathan happened on their watch, like, "We're supposed to be watching for this and it literally happened right from under us."'_

link

----------


## RedBird

m_alesg

_The hero families getting spooked!....and who can forget the Batfamily?_

----------


## Jackalope89

> That's fair but, I admit though I liked the characterization and dialogue from Jason. I enjoyed the conversation between him and Bruce leading up to the reveal that he was under suspicion as well the conversation between him and Lois, and I'm gonna be controversial here, but to me it felt pretty IC to me. I didn't realize just how much I had really wanted Jason and Lois to interact up until that point. 
> 
> I haven't read Super comics for myself so I'll take your word on that. 
> But regardless, he most likely will be writing for Jason again soon, to some degree. Like always, hope for the best. 
> 
> _
> 'You had mentioned Batgirl, and there was Jason Todd. So are we going to revisit them in Leviathan Dawn?
> 
> Yes, 100%. This hit everybody on different levels. Some it hit very personally, some it hit thematically, like, Leviathan was against their principals on every level that something has to be done and a lot of people feel like Leviathan happened on their watch, like, "We're supposed to be watching for this and it literally happened right from under us."'_
> ...


Problem was, Jason was in Gotham at the time, working on the Iceberg Lounge and had a particularly cold confrontation with Bruce (as Batman) when he broke in. And this was also after his and Damian's fight at the bar. So Jason being rather neutral at the time made very little sense.

And honestly, I'd rather just ignore Bendis' "continuity" the way he does other peoples'.

----------


## Zaresh

> It might take some time, I hope eventually there will be a writer who will take the time to flesh the relations out into something more positive. 
> Also I wonder if Jason and Bruces strained relationship will be addressed in some way by Bendis in his upcoming Leviathan sequels. He did make claims that the situation of what occurred in 'Event Leviathan' would affect Jason in some way. Surely the false accusation will be a topic of interest.


Over the years, I've learnt to distrust most of Bendis' promotional statements about what he's going to spwrite and show in his upcoming works. I count for it to be maybe just a little more than a footnote in his epilogue.

Edit: he felt in character, just, as usual, Bendis wasn't building his story with the current events and situation in other writers' books. He does that a lot.

----------


## RedBird

> Problem was, Jason was in Gotham at the time, working on the Iceberg Lounge and had a particularly cold confrontation with Bruce (as Batman) when he broke in. And this was also after his and Damian's fight at the bar. So Jason being rather neutral at the time made very little sense.
> 
> And honestly, I'd rather just ignore Bendis' "continuity" the way he does other peoples'.


Again fair judgement, continuity has been crap for a while now in comics, but in Leviathan, I kinda took it as Jason willing to set their differences aside for Barbaras sake since she was MIA, and to me, Jason willing to let their hostilities go for the sake of Babs felt true to character. He has always valued 'people before the mission'. I know it was right after the Iceberg Lounge threat, which makes the interaction feel off, yes, BUT to be fair, that sort of thing of 'setting aside their differences' also happened in rhato like, two issues after the infamous beatdown, when Bruce came to tell Jason about Roy's death and pass his condolences. Which I would argue was even worse. Not to say one lapse of continuity justifies another, but I guess it's more so just the reason why I personally don't view the Leviathan one with that much annoyance, although I completely understand why others do.

----------


## Zaresh

> Again fair judgement, continuity has been crap for a while now in comics, but in Leviathan, I kinda took it as Jason willing to set their differences aside for Barbaras sake since she was MIA, and to me, Jason willing to let their hostilities go for the sake of Babs felt true to character. He has always valued 'people before the mission'. I know it was right after the Iceberg Lounge threat, which makes the interaction feel off, yes, BUT to be fair, that sort of thing of 'setting aside their differences' also happened in rhato like, two issues after the infamous beatdown, when Bruce came to tell Jason about Roy's death and pass his condolences. Which I would argue was even worse. Not to say one lapse of continuity justifies another, but I guess it's more so just the reason why I personally don't view the Leviathan one with that much annoyance, although I completely understand why others do.


Ah, Barbara, right. That's a good point. He would set* all aside for her sake.

Edit: well, both are fair points, actually. The diner issue in RHATO was a bit like whiplash.

----------


## AmiMizuno

I mean Jason would be considered a anti hero still? I mean he does things for money but still had his morals

----------


## Restingvoice

> I mean Jason would be considered a anti hero still? I mean he does things for money but still had his morals


Yeah. Pure Classic Hero does things selflessly. Heroes who do good with a "but" in it are anti-heroes.

Actually, right now he's more of anti-villain. Okay, he'll train Lex Luthor's next generation of villains, _but_ he does it because they will be worse off with the other villains.

----------


## RedBird

> Over the years, I've learnt to distrust most of Bendis' promotional statements about what he's going to spwrite and show in his upcoming works. I count for it to be maybe just a little more than a footnote in his epilogue.
> 
> Edit: he felt in character, just, as usual, Bendis wasn't building his story with the current events and situation in other writers' books. He does that a lot.


That's a shame to hear, ah well, my expectations aren't that high anyway. But in regards to Jason, Bendis surprised me last time, so who knows.

And hey, it's a low bar but I'll gladly take just 'in character' Jason as opposed to portrayals like King's Jason.

----------


## RedBird

> I mean Jason would be considered a anti hero still? I mean he does things for money but still had his morals


Well Jason is usually considered an anti-hero, that seems to be the label most attributed to him, even by DC themselves he is promoted that way.

But his morality can seem to flit back and forth between the lines of hero and villain or more so, anti-villain, especially depending on the context of the situations he is in.

But if you're looking for a general description, anti-hero is the popular and all round accepted choice.

----------


## AmiMizuno

Overall should he be turned more into a villians or hero? I don't mind him being netural. A more edgy hero

----------


## Jackalope89

> Overall should he be turned more into a villians or hero? I don't mind him being netural. A more edgy hero


He walks a line. Neutral it is.

----------


## Zaresh

> I mean Jason would be considered a anti hero still? I mean he does things for money but still had his morals


He doesn't do things for money. Not beyond that one time for the short series before Rebirth.

And morality is personal. Just because he doesn't follow Bruce to a T doesn't mean he's a bad guy. Huntress doesn't either. Or Wonder Woman. I'm pretty sure there's a bunch of leaguers who don't, actually. What makes Jason gray isn't exactly his moral system, I think. It's that he's practical as hell, to the point of killing if the guys are dangerous enough to put people in peril (or, well, himself) or deal with bad guys (which, I've to point, is something other heroes have done before. Even Batman under certain writers).

I mean, the batfamily, all of them, operate outside the law. That's not exactly white.

Jason isn't Slade.

Edit: because Jason's practical, and emotional driven, he goes from anti-heroic (good guy, but not clear clean, and uses dubious methods. Would use people to reach an outcome but not endanger them to the point of hurt them. This would be John McClane from Die Hard, for example, even if he's pretty heroic imho), to anti-villanious (noble ends, but definitely bad methods: not only manipulates any kind of character no matter their alignment, he also is willed to hurt or even let them die, or kill them. This would be... let's see, I think Ozymandias from Watchmen fits the mold). This depends of how he feels about a subject. In a traditional D&D alignment chart, Jason is Chaotic Good or Chaotic Neutral depending on the situation at hand and his options and circumstances.

----------


## cc008

He's a hero to me. And it's pretty cut and dry. He just likes to get his fingers a little dirtier than most. Winter Soldier, Wolverine, Cable, Black Widow (I use Marvel examples because that's who I'm most familiar with).. I consider them all heroes. 

Vigilante =/= Anti-Hero

----------


## Zaresh

> He's a hero to me. And it's pretty cut and dry. He just likes to get his fingers a little dirtier than most. Winter Soldier, Wolverine, Cable, Black Widow (I use Marvel examples because that's who I'm most familiar with).. I consider them all heroes. 
> 
> Vigilante =/= Anti-Hero


Mmmmm.
Logan and Natasha, or, well, I think Bucky too depending on who writes him and when, are pretty Byronic, which is a kind of anti-hero. I don't know. A hero, classic or not, is way more heroic that what Logan can pull half the time and his own personal, conflicts and struggles. Same could be said for Natasha, imho.

But I agree: being a vigilante doesn't make you instantly an anti-hero. Blue Beetle would be a vigilante, I think. Or Spiderman. And you hardly could call any of them an anti-hero.

(Ah! Cable has that cool look and background, but yeah; he's very heroic, even if he likes to get his hands dirty)

----------


## Restingvoice

Let's use the D&D alignment
Lawful Good - Do-gooder, follow the law (Commissioner Gordon)
Neutral Good - Do-gooder willing to bend the law when necessary 
Chaotic Good - Do-gooder not limited by law or tradition
Lawful Neutral - I follow the law even if it causes misery
True Neutral - Takes no sides
Chaotic Neutral - Screw the law I do what I want
Lawful Evil - Cause harm but still follow a code, law, or the boss
Neutral Evil - Cause harm based on what I think should be done 
Chaotic Evil - Cause harm no matter which side

Which is Jason?

----------


## RedBird

For D&D alignment, I ultimately go with Chaotic Good for Jason.

----------


## Sergard

> Let's use the D&D alignment
> Lawful Good - Do-gooder, follow the law (Commissioner Gordon)
> Neutral Good - Do-gooder willing to bend the law when necessary 
> Chaotic Good - Do-gooder not limited by law or tradition
> Lawful Neutral - I follow the law even if it causes misery
> True Neutral - Takes no sides
> Chaotic Neutral - Screw the law I do what I want
> Lawful Evil - Cause harm but still follow a code, law, or the boss
> Neutral Evil - Cause harm based on what I think should be done 
> ...


I wonder if one could fill the D&D alignment grid with different versions of Jason alone (Father Todd, Mother Panic Jason, Gotham City Garage Jason, Injustice Jason, pre-crisis Jason, Hush Jason, Lego universe Jason, Titans Jason, Battle for the Cowl Jason, Morrison's Jason, Earth-15 Jason, Bombshells' Jason, Arkham Knight, etc.)

----------


## Zaresh

He should be chaotic, either good or neutral, depending on his mood, imo. He would be neutral in Under the Hood, for example.

I think that Law in that system isn't tied to law alone. If my sesions and videogames are a goos example (I don't know...), it has more to do with what the rules, rulers and customs dictate. Neutrals follow them sometimes, sometimes don't and some others, they blend. A Lawful follows them, but could blend them. A Chaotic, doesn't follow them just becaue, he does as he feels it's fair in his mindset, over any customs and rules (contracts too, I guess). Jason is straight Chaotic. And he's usually good, but he can do bad too, when he's hurt or too angry. He leans towards neutral at times, I think.

----------


## cc008

> For D&D alignment, I ultimately go with Chaotic Good for Jason.


100% agreed

----------


## Zaresh

Forget that. I was thinking, even when he was hurting innocent others (like Tim in TTs), his ideals were still pursuing a good end in Under the Hood. So yeah, you guys are right, he's Chaotic Good 100%.

----------


## Sergard

At his core, Jason is a good guy.
Even when he was pretty much braindead and living alone on the streets having nothing, he still shared with others.

From Batman Annual #25:

----------


## Aahz

> Forget that. I was thinking, even when he was hurting innocent others (like Tim in TTs), his ideals were still pursuing a good end in Under the Hood. So yeah, you guys are right, he's Chaotic Good 100%.


Don't know, some incarnations line BftC or Mother Panic (in the beginning) are clearly going in the evil direction.

 Earth-15 Jason was probably Lawfull (or at least Neutral), and the pre crisis version was probably also not really chaotic (at least not more then the rest of the Batfamily).

But the main universe Version imo clearly chaotic good, and imo much easier to place in the dnd alignment spectrum then a lot of the other members.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Don't know, some incarnations line BftC or Mother Panic (in the beginning) are clearly going in the evil direction.
> 
>  Earth-15 Jason was probably Lawfull (or at least Neutral), and the pre crisis version was probably also not really chaotic (at least not more then the rest of the Batfamily).
> 
> But the main universe Version imo clearly chaotic good, and imo much easier to place in the dnd alignment spectrum then a lot of the other members.


We do not speak of pre-Flashpoint post-UTRH Jason here. Such is the evil of that time.

----------


## kaimaciel

A lovely Jason by stariver00 to cheer up your day!

tumblr_fb005a21cddb7d0ed256da8dacd98caf_fab972fc_1280.jpg

----------


## Sergard

@yosuga0101



@lkjhg_0fdsa



@lkjhg_0fdsa

----------


## Jackalope89

Wizard Jason. You know what immediately came to mind? "Abra ka-f*** you!"

Something which Jason would most definitely say to the likes of Dumbledore, Umbridge, Voldemort, and just about anyone else that would try to control/manipulate him. Which, come to think of it, is a lot in Harry Potter (hindsight being 20/20)...

----------


## Zaresh

> Wizard Jason. You know what immediately came to mind? "Abra ka-f*** you!"
> 
> Something which Jason would most definitely say to the likes of Dumbledore, Umbridge, Voldemort, and just about anyone else that would try to control/manipulate him. Which, come to think of it, is a lot in Harry Potter (hindsight being 20/20)...


Huh. I'm of the opinion that Jason doesn't swear. He can be very defiant and offensive and defiant without using that sort of words.
A character I can see swearing just fine? Bucky in Marvel, for example, who, I think maybe, has actually said the F word once or twice in panel. Kaine Parker too. But for whatever reason, I picture Jason just being really polite when choosing his words for swearing, most of the time at least.

Which means that most of the fanfics don't get the voice I picture for him in my head.

----------


## Restingvoice

Fanfic tends to use an image they already have then applied it to the character. Jason has a bad boy image so some authors use what bad boy supposed to be and apply it to him.

I remember before Tomasi/Gleason draw what his room looks like, people like to imagine Jason's room is messy, but nope, his rooms are neat. It's Tim and Dick, the good boys who are messy. 

Then there's the poor street kids image combined with bad-boy image, people think he doesn't like school, but nope, he loves to read, loves to go to school (especially since he didn't have a chance as a poor kid).

----------


## Jackalope89

> Fanfic tends to use an image they already have then applied it to the character. Jason has a bad boy image so some authors use what bad boy supposed to be and apply it to him.
> 
> I remember before Tomasi/Gleason draw what his room looks like, people like to imagine Jason's room is messy, but nope, his rooms are neat. It's Tim and Dick, the good boys who are messy. 
> 
> Then there's the poor street kids image combined with bad-boy image, people think he doesn't like school, but nope, he loves to read, loves to go to school (especially since he didn't have a chance as a poor kid).


I've seen fanfics go both ways on the rooms, with some even having him as a minimalist. 
As for the bad-boy image, I've seen it combined with the book/school nerd quite a bit. Well, not really the bad boy thing, so much as he likes to wear a leather jacket a lot and people in the fanfics take him for a "bad-boy" on first impression.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

That is why it was hilarious that Jason can't hold his liquor in canon, while nearly every fan depicts him drinking beer by the gallon.

----------


## Sergard

Jason Fabok

_Joker from 2016. It was the teaser for Three Jokers. I've changed alot over these years and have changed how I approach the Joker. This image was based off of the Joker logo scene on the TV in Batman 1989.
As for Three Jokers news, we are figuring out release dates right now. We will know soon!

#batman #joker #threejokers #dccomics_

----------


## kaimaciel

Finally! It's taking forever to come out. 

Have you guys heard about the 5G rumors? What do you think it could mean for Jason?

----------


## Zaresh

> That is why it was hilarious that Jason can't hold his liquor in canon, while nearly every fan depicts him drinking beer by the gallon.


This is changing slowly but steadily, I guess, because it's funny that he just can't hold, and that gives the chance for writing some funny gags. Also, it makes sense to some degree if the pit healed him; drink tolerance has to do with how your body has grown to manage those toxic chemichals (and a genetic profile too: some people can't just tolerate at all, not even when they grow old and are used to it),

----------


## Zaresh

> Finally! It's taking forever to come out. 
> 
> Have you guys heard about the 5G rumors? What do you think it could mean for Jason?


What rumours?

----------


## Jackalope89

> What rumours?


All the big names are being replaced, with Jon Kent taking over Supe's place for example.

----------


## Zaresh

> All the big names are being replaced, with Jon Kent taking over Supe's place for example.


Oh, but those are old. I thought it was something new, more recent.

Well, I don't think it's going to affect Jason. In fact, I think we're going to still have a regular Bruce Batman book sideways, in continuity, alongside a few other books, like Rhato (if isn't canned by then), Batgirl, JY, TT, etc.

----------


## Digifiend

If 5G is a timeskip (seems likely - Jon's meant to be an adult), then the entire line would be affected. Young Justice would almost certainly go with a new generation like the show did. Red Hood could just continue - Jason would just be older. Batgirl could be handed back to one of Barbara's pre-Flashpoint successors (both Cassandra and Stephanie are a lot younger than Babs, especially since she was aged up to late twenties recently).

----------


## Jackalope89

> Oh, but those are old. I thought it was something new, more recent.
> 
> Well, I don't think it's going to affect Jason. In fact, I think we're going to still have a regular Bruce Batman book sideways, in continuity, alongside a few other books, like Rhato (if isn't canned by then), Batgirl, JY, TT, etc.


Bruce and the rest are going to be Black Label only. 

What 5G means for series like RHatO, hasn't really been expanded on though.

----------


## Zaresh

> Bruce and the rest are going to be Black Label only. 
> 
> What 5G means for series like RHatO, hasn't really been expanded on though.


Being Black Label doesn't mean it not being "in cont". Just that it's going to be mature targeted. Which makes sense business wise. Fans from a lifetime and general audience are mature and going to look for the Batman they know. In fact, I'm expecting that line's books to sell more than the regular DCU one.

This is a business. They're not going to put their flag characters, who give them most profit, in a box. They're just going to try new characters and ideas using the mainline like a showcase. I expect them to try the graphic novel format more often too, because that's where more sales from the adult readers in bookstores are going to come steadily. Or at least, that's what I think.

----------


## AmiMizuno

I honestly have to wonder how a team up with Bruce and Jason would be if he had to work with Bruce.

----------


## Jackalope89

> I honestly have to wonder how a team up with Bruce and Jason would be if he had to work with Bruce.


Right now? Not well. At all. Jason is even technically on Lex's side (though only to look after the group of kids, otherwise he's not really on anyone's side it seems). It would take an awful lot to get them to be around one another without going at it. Kind of makes me wonder how/when 3 Jokers is supposed to take place (if it ever comes out).

----------


## AmiMizuno

So it's really just all the other Batfam but Bruce that he is cool with. I guess it would take one of the Batam kipnapped. Which is rare.

----------


## Jackalope89

> So it's really just all the other Batfam but Bruce that he is cool with. I guess it would take one of the Batam kipnapped. Which is rare.


Add Damian there to that list with Bruce. 
Dick, well, isn't Dick right now. So he's out of the picture. And Jason and Tim haven't really talked much in quite awhile, so hard to know where they stand on everything.

----------


## AmiMizuno

Okay so before Ric. We can at least know for sure Dick and babs. What about Batwoman, Catwoman or Cain? I'm curious why would it work with Dick and Not Bruce.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Okay so before Ric. We can at least know for sure Dick and babs. What about Batwoman, Catwoman or Cain? I'm curious why would it work with Dick and Not Bruce.


Batwoman? Sure. She even had a cameo during Jason's travels, helping him out a bit and giving him a ride afterward. Selina... Don't know. Especially since the break-up. And he simply hasn't interacted with Cass enough. The only time I'm aware of, was when Bruce still had amnesia during New52. And that was basically when they met for the first time, ever.

----------


## Restingvoice

> I honestly have to wonder how a team up with Bruce and Jason would be if he had to work with Bruce.


When they're in good terms, Batman gave Jason the second in command in Batman Incorporated, leading a team of presumed dead heroes because he's been on both sides, evil and good, and he knows how things work. 

When partnering together, he lets him uses his gun but in a non-lethal way.

Banter-wise, Bruce is mission-focused and Jason trash talks the enemy. I don't remember if they talk to each other beyond what's the mission's about, but when friendly, they can have a rare sentimental moment of Jason's Robinhood. When not, Jason will bluntly diss Bruce's method. 

Batman: "This could be dangerous"
Red Hood: "Are you serious?! That's been the case every time we go out. No wonder you lost so many of us."

----------


## Sergard

kenny




cahrl




RUSKE (from 2018)

----------


## Sergard

inkydandy

----------


## RedBird

> If 5G is a timeskip (seems likely - Jon's meant to be an adult), then the entire line would be affected. Young Justice would almost certainly go with a new generation like the show did. Red Hood could just continue - Jason would just be older. Batgirl could be handed back to one of Barbara's pre-Flashpoint successors (both Cassandra and Stephanie are a lot younger than Babs, especially since she was aged up to late twenties recently).


Ugh. I dread it if that's the case.

I don't know why DC thinks anyone wants a time skip, and not a restoration. 

Hopefully the time skip will only effect SOME characters, like the characters that were originally effected during new52. That would help realign some things. 

That's the best case scenario imo.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Cute little nod to the Outlaws in today's Flash Forward #4





I love the idea of the Outlaws of Justice. Lobdell should brought back his old pitch (hilariously relevant after Doomsday's Clock end) and have multiple Outlaws team-up.

----------


## RedBird

Yeah that was kind of a neat reference, also cool to see a Red Lantern version of Jason.

----------


## Sergard

tuslei

----------


## Sergard

tuslei




tuslei




tuslei

----------


## Zaresh

> Cute little nod to the Outlaws in today's Flash Forward #4
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love the idea of the Outlaws of Justice. Lobdell should brought back his old pitch (hilariously relevant after Doomsday's Clock end) and have multiple Outlaws team-up.


I am so grateful that we didn't get Booth's regular colourist for this one. Not that they aren't bad, but they don't really fit his drawings.

----------


## Zaresh

> tuslei
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tuslei


I like the style of these two a lot: nice colour palette, and cool urban style.

----------


## Restingvoice

> Cute little nod to the Outlaws in today's Flash Forward #4
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love the idea of the Outlaws of Justice. Lobdell should brought back his old pitch (hilariously relevant after Doomsday's Clock end) and have multiple Outlaws team-up.


That last spread looks very 90s

Nevermind. The whole thing looks very 90s

----------


## Aahz

> 


Does anybody know whom they have fused with Ravenger.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Does anybody know whom they have fused with Ravenger.


I almost want to say Lady Shiva, but I'm not sure.

----------


## RedBird

> Does anybody know whom they have fused with Ravenger.


That was the one that had me stumped. 

The thigh high 'boots' along with the fully body outfit stopping at the chest reminded me of Artemis, but the green color doesn't make sense then, unless it's referring to her Requiem outfit which just feels needlessly convoluted. The thigh high boots and green color also reminded me of Cheshire, but I thought she was more known for here short skirt/robe combo.

----------


## Sergard

Chingsty





JANET KINTON




Ace Continuado

----------


## Sergard

artwork by Yasmine Putri (source)

----------


## Zaresh

> artwork by Yasmine Putri (source)


Damn, she can make anything look cool.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Jason looks oddly femenine though. Must be the way he's standing, looks like he's posing on a Beauty contest or something.

----------


## Zaresh

> Jason looks oddly femenine though. Must be the way he's standing, looks like he's posing on a Beauty contest or something.


It's a contrapposto pose. It does put an emphasis in curving the body in a gentle arc, but it's a very classic pose for males across the history of art.

It's a relaxed and "casual" pose, but it's meant to also give a feel of movement. It is very common in fashion photography, too (see wiki article for more).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrapposto

----------


## Jackalope89

> It's a contrapposto pose. It does put an emphasis in curving the body in a gentle arc, but it's a very classic pose for males across the history of art.
> 
> It's a relaxed and "casual" pose, but it's meant to also give a feel of movement. It is very common in fashion photography, too (see wiki article for more).
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrapposto


I see what Dark means though. If you don't focus right, the symbol on the chest ends up making it look like Jason is wearing something out of Wonder Woman's wardrobe.

----------


## Zaresh

> I see what Dark means though. If you don't focus right, the symbol on the chest ends up making it look like Jason is wearing something out of Wonder Woman's wardrobe.


Ah, I see now. Yeah, but maybe it has more to do with how the symbol is drawn. Pecs aren't drawn that curvey, I think. It's more like the symbol is weirdly curvey.

I thought the obsevation was because of the slight S curve that Jason's body is drawing with his head-shoulders-waist-hips.

----------


## AmiMizuno

What should Jason's next arc be?

----------


## Restingvoice

> Jason looks oddly femenine though. Must be the way he's standing, looks like he's posing on a Beauty contest or something.


He's standing the way a Hollywood badass female character with a gun and katana would look, with the hip cocked to one side

----------


## Sergard

> Damn, she can make anything look cool.


I love the gun and sword combination.




> What should Jason's next arc be?


Jason, Artemis and Bizarro reconnecting while Jason is dealing with Alfred's death and the fact that Ma Gunn is his grandmother.
Also some bonding time between Rebirth Outlaws and Generation Outlaws.

----------


## Zaresh

Blog time!

So today I counterargued someone in Reddit that said that Morrison's redhead Jason and Winick's Jason's had more in common than Winick's and Lobdell's. I can't believe people think that that redhead has anything to do with Under the Hood's Jason in anything but the name. I don't get it. I know Lobdell's is different than Winick's, but, as much as Morrison's? Even when Judd Winick came back for the character in that Dickbats run (chapters 24 to 26; I looked it up), I recall his part like kind of making fun of the way he was written when that run began (yet nothing unrespecful or breaking too much the character at the time, if memory serves me right).

I mean, I read Batman and Robin a long way back, but I think I'm not missremembering it that much. Or am* I? I had a lot of fun reading that run, but Jason wasn't a reason why; that part, I think I remembered it right. I hadn't read anything between that and Under the Hood (prior to B&R. I was reading some Batman's sagas* in order), so I even got to have a much clear contrast when I got to that point. And Dini's take, which was before it, but I read afterwards, was much more like Winicks, and definitely, something very similar to what we got with Lobdell. In my memories.

Maybe I should reread Batman and Robin.

----------


## Arsenal

Pre and Post Crisis Robin Jason have more common than UTRH Jason and Red Head Jason do.

----------


## RedBird

I think all in all, it's a fruitless argument that has been disproved enough times to be tiring at this point. If canon material and facts showing how the two versions highly contradict each other in such fundamental ways to be entirely OOC isn't enough, then I don't know what else there is to say.

----------


## Zaresh

> Pre and Post Crisis Robin Jason have more common than UTRH Jason and Red Head Jason do.





> I think all in all, it's a fruitless argument that has been disproved enough times to be tiring at this point. If canon material and facts showing how the two versions highly contradict each other in such fundamental ways to be entirely OOC isn't enough, then I don't know what else there is to say.


I couldn't resist myself to comment on why I thought differently; after 8 hours of work without proper sleep time I'm too open to argue about whatever :_____D. But at least I know it's not that I remember it all that wrongly.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

I recently reread Revenge of the Red Hood and I can kind of see where that other person comes from. Morrison used Jason as a means to express his ideas rather than use him as a character but despite that, is not that much OOC. In fact, the only thing I can find to be completely OOC is his murder of the cops at the start since Jason was never one to kill people that easy. That said, his take on Jason reads like the logical endpoint of Winnick's Jason because, and this is important to never forget, *Winnick never saw Jason as anything but a villain.* To Winnick there was no redemption, no forgiveness, no nuance, he always considered Jason a villain all the way through.

Lobdell, on the other hand, has never seen Jason as a villain and in fact, the only condition he put when he landed the gig was being allowed to redeem Jason and inching him closer to be a hero.

----------


## Zaresh

> I recently reread Revenge of the Red Hood and I can kind of see where that other person comes from. Morrison used Jason as a means to express his ideas rather than use him as a character but despite that, is not that much OOC. In fact, the only thing I can find to be completely OOC is his murder of the cops at the start since Jason was never one to kill people that easy. That said, his take on Jason reads like the logical endpoint of Winnick's Jason because, and this is important to never forget, *Winnick never saw Jason as anything but a villain.* To Winnick there was no redemption, no forgiveness, no nuance, he always considered Jason a villain all the way through.
> 
> Lobdell, on the other hand, has never seen Jason as a villain and in fact, the only condition he put when he landed the gig was being allowed to redeem Jason and inching him closer to be a hero.


Mmmm... I remember finding myself thinking that Winick's Jason wouldn't have done things like he did, his personality and behaviour felt definitely way off for me at that time. It wasn't that he was so obviously villanious even; it was how he did things, how he said things, and how he reacted. I guess I could reread it and see, but I really got that strong impression that I still remember clearly. He came across to me as some clown who overreacted and claimed for everyone's attention in the most noisy way. Which has little to do with how I remember Jason did claim attention or let himself be noticed by others. Or played his dramatics. I know Winick  didn't saw him as anything like a hero. But then in the Outsiders, when he showed up briefly (I think I remember looking at these issues out of curiosity), he wasn't a villain exactly either, if I recall correctly. It's weird. Or really, I can't read his Jason as he meant him to be readed. Because when he rewrote Under the Hood for the movie, I could still feel a lot of sympathy for Jason, despite him being the villain.

I know that Lobdell's isn't a perfect copy of that Jason either; but at times, he really feels like he could still be. I remember having that feel not long ago, this year maybe by spring or so. Can't remember which issue.

But I don't have an issue with Seeley's Jason in that wedding special (and I think some people have them. For me, it was humorous, but not off. Just a different mood), so there's that too. It's something akin to headcanons I guess.

----------


## Restingvoice

Winnick's Jason has a purpose. He wants Joker dead. He just didn't care about the damages it caused to get there. Morrison's Jason and Jason who terrorized Tim in Teen Titans feels like someone who couldn't achieve that purpose, so he decided to target his brothers like throwing a tantrum. 

The Nightwing/Tentacle Jason... I don't know what he's doing. He got bored maybe. Which is funny, because that's the first Jason that appeared after Under The Red Hood, I think, so it's like "Dang, Batman beats me. Might as well dick around and play hero for a while since big bro's not here"

The way he's written after Under The Red Hood until New 52 it's clear they don't know what to do with him. Nightwing Jason dicks around for a year, Teen Titans Jason bullied Tim, then he goes heroic with Donna and Kyle, then he went nuts trying to be Batman, and then he trolls the new Batman and Robin, and then he GTFO of town with a new sidekick. Viewed as a whole it's hilarious. Can it be argued that he really lost purpose and that's why he's so random?

----------


## Sergard

My Red Hood figure has arrived this week. 
The figure is very, very nice. (Sorry for the bad photo quality.) 
Jason is now guarding my collection of unread trades.  :Big Grin: 

Red Hood Figure 1.jpg

Red hood Figure 2.jpg


Thanks again @Dark_Tzitzimine and @johnpeelgothisgun for the recommendations.  :Smile:

----------


## Rise

If Jason's purpose was just the Joker's death, he would have done it himself. What Jason truly wanted in UTRH was for Bruce to prove that he _cared_. He didn't care about the batfamily or any other hero except Bruce which is why him suddenly becoming obsessed with the other Robins post UTRH never made any sense.

Saying that Morrison's take on Red Hood is the "logical" endpoint for Winick's take is quite funny to me because the way Winick handled Jason when he took over BR speak volumes about how unhappy he was with what Morrison has done.




> Lobdell, on the other hand, has never seen Jason as a villain and in fact, the only condition he put when he landed the gig was being allowed to redeem Jason and inching him closer to be a hero.


That wasn't really about how he saw Jason. Lobdell simply didn't feel like he want to write a story about a villain at that time, be it Jason or anyone else.

----------


## Zaresh

> If Jason's purpose was just the Joker's death, he would have done it himself. What Jason truly wanted in UTRH was for Bruce to prove that he _cared_. He didn't care about the batfamily or any other hero except Bruce which is why him suddenly becoming obsessed with the other Robins post UTRH never made any sense.
> 
> Saying that Morrison's take on Red Hood is the "logical" endpoint for Winick's take is quite funny to me because the way Winick handled Jason when he took over BR speak volumes about how unhappy he was with what Morrison has done.


It's how I remember perceiving it too. The whole UtH was about Jason's own insecurities as someone who maybe wasn't loved after all. It wasn't about proving Bruce that his methods didn't work, or controlimg crime, or even killing Joker. It was about Jason "crying" because he wanted to know if someone really cared for him. And I think, when he beat Tim in TTitans (under Johns), that too, was more about proving a point to Tim and Jason himself (that Bruce didn't care enough about any Robin), than proving that Tim was inferior to him or didn't deserve being Robin. It's why he didn't kill him in the end. Jason has this whole "I said this and deny that to even myself saying the contrary, but I show this feeling and act that way in reality" under Lobdell too, even if it's less subtle. Dini's too had those features. And Jason in AK too, was that way.

His "bad blood" with the fam was, for me, more "Why didn't you love me, why wasn't I worth enough?" than "Fuck you, I'll make you pay for not accepting me the way I am," which is somethimg he seems to not care much about, and something I think Lobdell understood well, too.

But, like I said, this may be very similar to how we create our own headcanons.

Edit: @Restingvoice. I think, by Countdown, they did have a plan for him. But then they ditched it in the last months of that year for whatever reason. And then comes Morrison's whole period (with other writers alongside him) if I'm not getting my order wrong. Brothers in Blood, too, was a bit of an editorial mess and wasn't mean to be like that, or so I've heard someone else comment once. If it helps.

----------


## Zaresh

> My Red Hood figure has arrived this week. 
> The figure is very, very nice. (Sorry for the bad photo quality.) 
> Jason is now guarding my collection of unread trades. 
> 
> Red Hood Figure 1.jpg
> 
> Red hood Figure 2.jpg
> 
> 
> Thanks again @Dark_Tzitzimine and @johnpeelgothisgun for the recommendations.


Still the pose I've liked the most of any figure so far. It's really, really nice looking. I envy you :3_.

----------


## Sergard

> Cute little nod to the Outlaws in today's Flash Forward #4
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love the idea of the Outlaws of Justice. Lobdell should brought back his old pitch (hilariously relevant after Doomsday's Clock end) and have multiple Outlaws team-up.


Who is fused with whom?
I recognize Cheetah and Creeper.
Swamp Thing and Etrigan seem to have their usual design.
Is Jason just a Red Lantern or is there a reference to a certain member of the Red Lantern Corps?

----------


## Aahz

> Who is fused with whom?
> I recognize Cheetah and Creeper.
> Swamp Thing and Etrigan seem to have their usual design.
> Is Jason just a Red Lantern or is there a reference to a certain member of the Red Lantern Corps?


Bizzaro and Killer Croc?

----------


## Sergard

> Still the pose I've liked the most of any figure so far. It's really, really nice looking. I envy you :3_.


I love the pose too. It looks natural.
Jason seems to observe the area and is ready to strike any moment if necessary.
But there is also some element of easiness in his pose earned by experience.

The figure size is great too  since I don't have a lot of space.
The box is surprisingly big but as seen in the photo I can use it as bookend.  :Smile: .

----------


## Sergard

inkydandy





Kao (kaokaocin)




@FGaaang

----------


## Sergard

teeahra




onipilot (Diana Prince and Jason Todd eating ice cream)

----------


## Restingvoice

> 


I immediately guess the artist is Korean before paying attention to the letters just because he looks like a Korean boyband member ^^

----------


## Zaresh

Uhum.

In case there's anyone interested, I've just released the second chapter of that cossover DCU/Skyrim fanfic. It's taken a while, and the funniest thing is, I wrote half of it this very same evening. Right now, I have no idea how I'm going to go with the next chapter, so it will take two weeks or so, most probably. Maybe more.

----------


## Jackalope89

> onipilot (Diana Prince and Jason Todd eating ice cream)


You know, its posts like these that make me want a more slice of comic series where the characters have simpler moments together. The characters out of costume (or just getting home) and having say, sitcom hijinks happen. JL8 being a prime example of something like that (though focusing more on the next generations, and actually done by DC).

----------


## Zaresh

> You know, its posts like these that make me want a more slice of comic series where the characters have simpler moments together. The characters out of costume (or just getting home) and having say, sitcom hijinks happen. JL8 being a prime example of something like that (though focusing more on the next generations, and actually done by DC).


It's not the same but...

Have you read "Justice League International"? The book from 1987, I mean. It's still superhero adventures, still not slice of life; but it's pretty lighthearted and, if memory serves me right, has a lot of those "simpler moments". I got to read it by chance years ago and had a lot of fun.

----------


## Sergard

Sae




Tsa (@captain_howell)




JoshBT (@joshbtart)

----------


## Sergard

Red Hood and the Outlaws (2016-) #41 (finalized cover)
cover art by Dan Mora

----------


## Zaresh

> Red Hood and the Outlaws (2016-) #41 (finalized cover)
> cover art by Dan Mora


Hum, no letterer in the namelist? Weird.

----------


## Sergard

> Hum, no letterer in the namelist? Weird.


But isn't it normal that the letterer doesn't get mentioned on the cover?

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Yeah, only writer, artist and colorist get billing on the cover.

----------


## Zaresh

> Yeah, only writer, artist and colorist get billing on the cover.


Is it? Oh, Ok. I don't know why, I thought the letterer's name was shown there too.

----------


## Sergard

nockuth




me.llo64




me.llo64

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

In my opinion, Red Hood Arsenal was Jason's best period.

----------


## Sergard

Tsa (@captain_howell) (colored version)




Andre Bellusci

----------


## RedBird

I hope they release the preview for issue #41 a little early (as they sometimes do) considering the extra week of waiting.

----------


## Sergard

> I hope they release the preview for issue #41 a little early (as they sometimes do) considering the extra week of waiting.


At least it will be a good start into the new year  :Smile: 

I don't know what time zones everyone lives in, but here it's Christmas right now. So: Merry Christmas to everyone.  :Wink: 





(source: Nessie)

----------


## Zaresh

> At least it will be a good start into the new year 
> 
> I don't know what time zones everyone lives in, but here it's Christmas right now. So: Merry Christmas to everyone. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (source: Nessie)


Merry Christmas to you, too!!

----------


## Jackalope89

Well, its just Christmas Eve Day where I'm at. But Merry Christmas! Happy Holidays!

----------


## Sergard

Jarrulus (age-reversed Robins)




Sam(@sferiolla)

----------


## Sergard

Of course there's already a Red Lantern Jason fanart. Artists are so fast. 

@leav_universe

----------


## Zaresh

> Jarrulus (age-reversed Robins)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sam(@sferiolla)


The first one, it's Jason holding kidDick, and Dick with kidJason? It's really cute, but I don't get the picture, I think.

Edit: Nevermind, it's a reverse age Robin group.

----------


## RedBird

02png

----------


## Sergard

@moon115115





Sen




RUSKE

----------


## RedBird

jjmk-jjmk



✨Merry christmas and happy new year! o(^▽^)o✨

----------


## AmiMizuno

I’m curious since the year is almost done what do you consider Jason’s best moments of this year ?

----------


## Zaresh

> I’m curious since the year is almost done what do you consider Jason’s best moments of this year ?


I guess, in issue 32 of RHATO, when he has a face to face with Bruce as Batman again. Issue 33 too, the whole issue was very nice. And this is hard to me to say, but that issue in Bendis' Leviathan that has him running from Batman's team and he manages to escape without much trouble.

----------


## Sergard

> I'm curious since the year is almost done what do you consider Jason's best moments of this year ?


I have a lot of favorite moments from this year, like

Jason adopting Dog (first appearance in RH:O #30)




Jason giving the Su sisters a second chance in life. (RH:O #36)




Jason looking out for his kids. (RH:O #40)





Other stuff I liked:
The appearances of New52 characters like Suzie Su, Essence and Isabel in general
More information about Solitary and Jason's dad (although I still need more information)
The return of Ma Gunn, Bizarro and Artemis
The appearances of Bunker, Shay Veritas and Doomed
More Prince of Gotham references
Jason being legally alive again
Jason's depiction in "Harley Quinn: Villain of the Year"
Curran Walters as Jason Todd in "Titans", season 2
Jason successfully escaping in "Event Leviathan"
Jason *not* being part of Tom King's awful Batman run
Alfred defending Jason in Teen Titans Annual #1
Yasmine Putri's variant covers
Kenneth Rocafort drawing three issues

----------


## Zaresh

Oh, I can agree with a lot of @Sergard highlight moments, too. Yep. That's a nice list.

----------


## Sergard

Jarrulus





remina(@akkiyamia)

----------


## Jackalope89

> I have a lot of favorite moments from this year, like
> 
> Jason adopting Dog (first appearance in RH:O #30)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jason giving the Su sisters a second chance in life. (RH:O #36)
> 
> ...


Yes to this whole list.

----------


## AJpyro

Merry Christmas Red Hood Fans!!

----------


## Zaresh

> Merry Christmas Red Hood Fans!!


Merry Christmas to you, too!

----------


## Jackalope89

Here's to the soon-to-be reunion of the Outlaws!

----------


## RedBird

inkydandy



_Happy holidays everyone!_

----------


## Sergard

New Year is getting closer and we all know what this means: A new Jason Todd appreciation thread  :Big Grin: .
Any suggestions what we should do differently compared to this year?
Otherwise I'll probably just copy the original post of this thread with some slight changes (adding some interview links, putting some stuff in a second post, updating some information etc.)
I'll copy some other posts too like the sales statistics and character information - in general posts that need to be updated sometimes (I can't edit posts in closed threads).



glitter_dc (age-reversed Robins)

----------


## Zaresh

*@Sergard*, do you need me to copy my fic posts?

----------


## Sergard

> *@Sergard*, do you need me to copy my fic posts?


I don't think that's necessary.
I'll copy the post below.




> (The OP was too long. So I outsourced the fanfic recommendations.)
> 
> *Some great fanfic authors*
> 
> List of recommended fanfic authors
> List of recommended fanfics of the genres/about the topic:
> Buried, Burnt and Risen from the AshesFamily MattersGhosts and Urban FantasyJason is another kind of heroJason becomes his own manTime Travel and Aging / De-agingTraditional fantasy

----------


## Sergard

source: FADE (art by JJMK)

----------


## Zaresh

> I don't think that's necessary.
> I'll copy the post below.


Allright then  :Smile:

----------


## RedBird

Hmm, I can't think of any changes that need to be made to the information on the thread intro, it's usually quite up to date.

Maybe a new cover image? Just to keep it fresh?

I would like to hear suggestions if anyone has any art in mind from a dc artist or fan artist.

For me, I have to go with Yasmine Putri's covers. There's so many great ones to choose from, but I especially love this one from issue 26, it's gorgeous.  :Smile: 



All of Putri's covers are beautiful, I also like her covers for Red Hood, 27, 28 and 36, but this particular cover from 26 more or less has Jasons classic/iconic costume, whereas the others have the new costume featured, and I know Jason's new costume is a little more divisive among fans. Plus there's no telling whether or not he will even keep the new costume till the end of the year, so yeah. Or, the cover image  for the thread could be from another beloved artist, Dexter Soy. Again, so many images to choose from there...

----------


## Sergard

> Hmm, I can't think of any changes that need to be made to the information on the thread intro, it's usually quite up to date.
> 
> Maybe a new cover image? Just to keep it fresh?
> 
> I would like to hear suggestions if anyone has any art in mind from a dc artist or fan artist.
> 
> For me, I have to go with Yasmine Putri's covers. There's so many great ones to choose from, but I especially love this one from issue 26, it's gorgeous. 
> 
> 
> ...



Cool idea. And since I'll separate the original post into two posts, there'll be place for six images.
I'd like to keep the JJMK fanart but it doesn't have to be the first image. I'd also like to keep the Three Jokers design.
But since Jason's solo run is over, I won't reuse Woods' artwork (although it's still one of my favorite panels).
I've thought about using the RH:O #41 cover too since it shows Jason's "Outlaw family".

I'll probably also add images to the other posts about different characters like the Todd and batfamily. There I could, for example, use the RH:O #28 variant with Jason and Kate.
And for a Dexter Soy artwork, how about this one:

----------


## Zaresh

> Cool idea. And since I'll separate the original post into two posts, there'll be place for six images.
> I'd like to keep the JJMK fanart but it doesn't have to be the first image. I'd also like to keep the Three Jokers design.
> But since Jason's solo run is over, I won't reuse Woods' artwork (although it's still one of my favorite panels).
> I've thought about using the RH:O #41 cover too since it shows Jason's "Outlaw family".
> 
> I'll probably also add images to the other posts about different characters like the Todd and batfamily. There I could, for example, use the RH:O #28 variant with Jason and Kate.
> And for a Dexter Soy artwork, how about this one:


I approve  :Cool:

----------


## Restingvoice

> Here's to the soon-to-be reunion of the Outlaws!


frigging kawaii. What the frick frack.

----------


## Sergard

@Zaresh: Can your introduction text stay that way or do you want to change/add something?




> "I'm my own man! Me, Jason Todd!"
> (Batman #408)
> 
> 
> (source)
> _Jason Peter Todd, born and risen in Lady City of Gotham's crudest part that came to become the second Robin, the Red Hood and the Wingman; the Arkham Knight of a different, grimmer universe; The Damned Prince of Gotham who suffered and died by the hand of the Clown Prince of Crime. But the young man whose sheer will and bad luck couldn't let him rest and who made his way back from the grave.
> 
> Vigilante, avenger: he fights for fairness, for setting the wrong right and for defending and protecting those who cannot fend themselves, and he will do so crossing lines into dark areas or delivering a brutal brand of justice. A daring and sassy adventurer who has traveled not only this world and the space, but other universes. A flawed man who fights not only the monsters out but also inside, who fears the ghosts of memories and suffers from them and despite that will fight back with determination. A man who can despise himself as much as he despises others; Who makes mistakes but also rights; Who can love as much as long for being loved, and hate as much as he loves. Who can lose himself in anger as well as in loneliness.
> 
> ...

----------


## Zaresh

> @Zaresh: Can your introduction text stay that way or do you want to change/add something?


It can stay as it is now. I don't think I've found anything to change  :Smile: .

----------


## Sergard

> It can stay as it is now. I don't think I've found anything to change .


Good.  :Smile: 
But could you maybe rephrase "But the young man whose sheer will and bad luck couldn't let him rest and who made his way back from the grave." a little?
I sometimes have the problem, when reading the introduction, that I "stumble" over those words. It doesn't feel like a whole sentence. Maybe we could delete the "and who"?

----------


## Zaresh

> Good. 
> But could you maybe rephrase "But the young man whose sheer will and bad luck couldn't let him rest and who made his way back from the grave." a little?
> I sometimes have the problem, when reading the introduction, that I "stumble" over those words. It doesn't feel like a whole sentence. Maybe we could delete the "and who"?


Let's see:

_But also the young man whose sheer will and bad luck couldn't let him rest, and the one who made his way back from the grave._

Or.

_But also the young man whose sheer will and bad luck couldn't let him rest, and made his way back from the grave._

I remember writing this almost* on the fly, so I probably skipped a few words. I haven't noticed until you've pointed out to it, to be honest. Says much of the importance of being proofread by others :3.

----------


## Sergard

> Let's see:
> 
> _But also the young man whose sheer will and bad luck couldn't let him rest, and the one who made his way back from the grave._
> 
> Or.
> 
> _But also the young man whose sheer will and bad luck couldn't let him rest, and made his way back from the grave._
> 
> I remember writing this almost* on the fly, so I probably skipped a few words. I haven't noticed until you've pointed out to it, to be honest. Says much of the importance of being proofread by others :3.


I think I get it now. The punctuation has confused me. The period makes it look like the first part is completed thematically. But the whole first paragraph is an enumeration.
How do you feel about exchanging the period with a dash? 

"Jason Peter Todd, born and risen in Lady City of Gotham's crudest part that* came to become the second Robin, the Red Hood and the Wingman; the Arkham Knight of a different, grimmer universe; The Damned Prince of Gotham who suffered and died by the hand of the Clown Prince of Crime *- but also* the young man whose sheer will and bad luck couldn't let him rest and who made his way back from the grave."

*Can one use "that" when it refers to a name? "Jason Peter Todd that came to become ..." sounds a little strange.
On the other hand "that" is not even necessary in that sentence. We could leave it out and maybe use a comma instead - but that's just my personal punctuation preference. I love using commas everywhere, except in English because I don't understand English comma rules.

----------


## Zaresh

> I think I get it now. The punctuation has confused me. The period makes it look like the first part is completed thematically. But the whole first paragraph is an enumeration.
> How do you feel about exchanging the period with a dash? 
> 
> "Jason Peter Todd, born and risen in Lady City of Gotham's crudest part that* came to become the second Robin, the Red Hood and the Wingman; the Arkham Knight of a different, grimmer universe; The Damned Prince of Gotham who suffered and died by the hand of the Clown Prince of Crime *- but also* the young man whose sheer will and bad luck couldn't let him rest and who made his way back from the grave."
> 
> *Can one use "that" when it refers to a name? "Jason Peter Todd that came to become ..." sounds a little strange.
> On the other hand "that" is not even necessary in that sentence. We could leave it out and maybe use a comma instead - but that's just my personal punctuation preference. I love using commas everywhere, except in English because I don't understand English comma rules.


I keep mixing Spanish and English punctuation rules (they work very differently), so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. A dash seems to fit there fine.

I'm not sure that sentence can work without a subject for similar reasons; in Spanish, you need to point who exactly  "came to become (etc)." It's tricky, and it all keeps leaking to my English. If you feel it sounds better the way you just wrote (without "that", or even "who"), go for it: I trust you  :Smile: .

Edit: "[...], the man that came to..." <- maybe? Or "[...], who came to..." 

I noticed that putting a comma there could be a good idea, too.

----------


## Sergard

> I keep mixing Spanish and English punctuation rules (they work very differently), so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. A dash seems to fit there fine.
> 
> I'm not sure that sentence can work without a subject for similar reasons; in Spanish, you need to point who exactly  "came to become (etc)." It's tricky, and it all keeps leaking to my English. If you feel it sounds better the way you just wrote (without "that", or even "who"), go for it: I trust you .
> 
> Edit: "[...], the man that came to..." <- maybe? Or "[...], who came to..." 
> 
> I noticed that putting a comma there could be a good idea, too.


But isn't "Jason Peter Todd" the subject? Jason Peter Todd came to become the second Robin, etc.
Well, I don't trust myself. My English isn't that good - just good enough to be constantly confused about English grammar rules.
Let's wait for a third opinion.  :Wink: 

In the meanwhile I'll be looking for links to old interviews about Jason Todd/Red Hood. I think there have been a few in the last two years.
I'll also have to update some character information. The Willis Todd/Solitary stuff will be a little tricky to explain.

----------


## Sergard

ichijiku




yopi

_Prince of Gotham_

----------


## Zaresh

Man, I hope we get to see that suit again, and I don't care if it's without that mask, or if it is gray and not green. That suit was smart and sleek.

----------


## Sergard

Fun fact: Comparison of "The Kiss" from RHatO #25 and RH:O #41 reveals that David Messina changed the placement of Artemis' left hand.
I personally prefer the original version. It's such a sweet dynamic that they save each other/keep each other from falling or getting hurt.
But Messina's version isn't that bad either. It's just more focused on the romantic aspect.


RHatO #25 by Dexter Soy and Veronica Gandini

 


RH:O #41 by David Messina and Rex Lokus

----------


## Zaresh

> Fun fact: Comparison of "The Kiss" from RHatO #25 and RH:O #41 reveals that David Messina changed the placement of Artemis' left hand.
> I personally prefer the original version. It's such a sweet dynamic that they save each other/keep each other from falling or getting hurt.
> But Messina's version isn't that bad either. It's just more focused on the romantic aspect.
> 
> 
> RHatO #25 by Dexter Soy and Veronica Gandini
> 
>  
> 
> ...


Heh, that's funny.

----------


## Sergard

I have updated the interview list. I'm surprised that there have been so many interviews in the past years.
Has anybody anything to add?


*Interviews*

2016-02-10 NEAL ADAMS MONTH: What’s Red and Black and Green All Over?
2016-06-07 Frank Miller and John Romita Jr. Discuss the Death of Jason Todd in Batman: The Dark Knight Returns - The Last Crusade
2016-06-15 MILLER & ROMITA Flashback To JASON TODD's Death in DARK KNIGHT RETURNS: THE LAST CRUSADE
2016-07-27 REBIRTH's RED HOOD & OUTLAWS Puts Jason Todd In 'Dark Trinity,' Streamlines Origin with Scott Lobdell (please delete the blank space before "streamlines" in order to use the link)
2016-08-08 RED HOOD Introduces New REBIRTH Take on Classic Superman Foe BIZARRO with Scott Lobdell
2016-08-09 Former Robin Teams Up With Bizarro and an Amazon with Scott Lobdell
2016-08-09 Exclusive: Scott Lobdell Discusses A New Era for ‘Red Hood and the Outlaws’
2016-08-10 Scott Lobdell Teases Heated Friction In 'Red Hood: Rebirth'
2016-08-23 What Does a Letterer Do? My interview with Red Hood’s Taylor Esposito

2017-04-13 Down and Nerdy Podcast - Episode 158 - An Interview with Scott Lobdell from DC Comics' Red Hood And The Outlaws (relevant information for RHatO)
2017-12-21 His name is not Stupido – Scott Lobdell on RHATO, Rebirth, and reductionist criticism


2018-01-24 Making a Figure: IKEMEN Red Hood!
2018-08-01 DC Nation #3 - How to ... redesign a character about Pete Woods' Red Hood redesign process
2018-08-14 Red Hood And The Outlaws Artist Dexter Soy Talks Comics, Collaboration And Rooftop Fights
2018-09-24 Pete Woods: Going Under the Hood
2018-10-03 DC Nation #5 - Into the Red with Scott Lobdell
2018-11-14 Stan Lee Remembrances, Disney+ Streaming Service and Titans’ Curran Walters Interview- Heroes


2019-01-09 Scott Lobdell Interview | Inside The Mind Of Red Hood And The Outlaws Writer.
2019-07-25 A Hero Story Special ep57: Scott Lobdell (short summary)
2019-11-11 Behind the Red Hood with Paul Levitz, Bob Schreck, Judd Winick, and Doug Mahnke (copy)

*mentions*

2015-02-02 Interview: Ron Marz and Denys Cowan Discuss CONVERGENCE BATMAN AND ROBIN

2016-04-05 Romita on Making Batman His Own in Snyder's "All Star Batman," Miller's "Dark Knight" Prequel

2017-06-28 SonicFox Talks Meta and EVO 2017

2018-03-20 Comic Book Conversations #7: Taylor Esposito
2018-10-02 Behind The Panel Inside The Mind Of A Comic Book Artist with Dexter Soy
2018-10-23 The JOKER (The Real One) Returns in This Week's BATMAN BEYOND #25 with Dan Jurgens
2018-11-29 White Knight: Gordon Murphy Plans to Explore Jason Todd & Batman Beyond (video)




> "I would love to get to Jason Todd. One of the happy accidents of Volume 1 was I switched the order of the Robins so that Jason Todd was not killed, he just left," said Murphy. "I, sort of, wanted to touch on that. I'm not sure if I'm gonna fit that in Volume 2, maybe at the end. But if I ever get to do a third volume, maybe I'll tackle the Jason Todd thing."


2019-11-13 Brian Michael Bendis Talks Event Leviathan's Big Reveal and Future




> *You were mentioning fallout and you had planted a lot of red herrings in this story with Jason Todd, Kate Spencer and Talia al Ghul. Are we going to see fallout with them?*
> 
> Yep! Yeah, any character that was touched by this story, there's going to be fallout from. This mystery is solved but, past the mystery, a lot has happened. They were semi-successful in their quest that Leviathan has arrived and is now a power in the DC Universe and that comes with a major shift in how everyone's doing business; so that's number one.
> 
> Everyone also has to deal with the fact that Leviathan set some of them up, like, why does the Red Hood get set up for shit like this? And that does eat at the character but also lets the character know "You have a job here. You have to take care of Leviathan because they are coming after you and they've made that very clear and they're doing the opposite of what you want in the world."
> 
> As far as Jason goes, I will say I did the most research of all the characters on Jason because I wanted the red herring to be honest and, at the same time, respectful to the character and have the character walk away as almost one of the big heroes of the story. If you really look at it, he kind of walks away the most unscathed and it certainly points Jason in the direction of what he has to do next.


2019-11-14 EXCLUSIVE: Bendis & Maleev’s Leviathan Dawn Will Change the DC Universe




> *You had mentioned Batgirl, and there was Jason Todd. So are we going to revisit them in Leviathan Dawn?*
> 
> Yes, 100%. This hit everybody on different levels. Some it hit very personally, some it hit thematically, like, Leviathan was against their principals on every level that something has to be done and a lot of people feel like Leviathan happened on their watch, like, "We're supposed to be watching for this and it literally happened right from under us."

----------


## Jackalope89

I think I'll just ignore Bendis' "canon" from now on. He ignores everyone else's anyway.

----------


## Zaresh

Nothing that I can remember right off the bat, *@Sergard*.

Edit:



> I think I'll just ignore Bendis' "canon" from now on. He ignores everyone else's anyway.


Usually, a wise thing to do.
This time at least he kind of did something enjoyable with Jason. Was respectful, even. Ask any Hawkeye fan what he can do.

----------


## Jackalope89

> Nothing that I can remember right off the bat, *@Sergard*.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Usually, a wise thing to do.
> This time at least he kind of did something enjoyable with Jason. Was respectful, even. Ask any Hawkeye fan what he can do.


True, he didn't make Jason a chump. But otherwise, Jason being there, when he was in Gotham in his own book, was more than jarring. Among other things.

Plus, I shudder to think of Jason being stuck with Bendis speak and being used outside of action scenes.

----------


## Dark_Tzitzimine

Man, DC Direct collectibles have some pretty crappy quality. I have my Red Hood statue on a shelf over my bed and today it fell from it and a piece of his ankle just straight-up broke. Thankfully, I could fix it with superglue and is barely noticeable, but still, the damn thing is $70.

----------


## Sergard

> Man, DC Direct collectibles have some pretty crappy quality. I have my Red Hood statue on a shelf over my bed and today it fell from it and a piece of his ankle just straight-up broke. Thankfully, I could fix it with superglue and is barely noticeable, but still, the damn thing is $70.


Well, your Jason is in good company.
But I know the problem. I once had a figure that got immediately stuck on its base. When I tried to pull it out, a part of the foot, actually of the sandal, broke off.

legends #5 Robin Jason Todd broken leg.jpg

----------


## RedBird

TheDCUniverse

----------


## RedBird

chingsty



_woohoo-jayjay_

----------


## RedBird

nockuth

----------


## Sergard

> TheDCUniverse



Imagine that maybe one day Jason will get an anniversary issue too like Batman or Superman.
All the stories that could be told. Pre-Robin stories, Robin-stories, All-Caste stories, stories in China before he returned as Red Hood, Red Hood stories, alternate universe stories for the Arkham Knight, Father Todd, Mother Panic Todd, etc. So many possibilities.

----------


## Sergard

Fade

_Happy New Year 2020
(I know it's quite early...)_




(No worry, I'll post this pic in the new thread too  :Smile:  )

----------


## RedBird

> TheDCUniverse


Judd Winick

----------


## Zaresh

I love when the creatives behind feel this attached and invested their work.

----------


## Sergard

threeleaves

----------


## Sergard

threeleaves

----------


## Sergard

threeleaves

----------


## Zaresh

> threeleaves


XDDDD This is a meme, right? I have to find the original.

----------


## Sergard

Desaworks

----------


## Sergard

remina(@akkiyamia)



Ren Wong

_part of a larger piece, but I can't seem to find the time to get back to, so here is a sneak peek! Ugghhh... I need to get back on track._

----------


## Sergard

Karl Mostert

karl mostert twitter 30-12-2019 part 1.jpg

karl mostert twitter 30-12-2019 part 2.jpg

----------


## Sergard

Kira

_BATS IN THE RING series, a thread

This is a set of sequential illustrations I've wanted to do for ages but never found the right time to start. So here we go, batfam meets pro wrestling for no other reason than it's fun as heck for me to draw! Updated as the series progresses.

1. Intromission (aka "Getting Over Under the Hood")_



_2. The long approach_



_3. A titan's reign_

----------


## Sergard

Kira

_4. A feud in the family_



_5. Flying Grayson_



_6. Bat Out of Hell_

----------


## Sergard

Kira

_7. "One... two..."_



_8. A coronation invaded_ (follow link above for short video clip)



_9. The Tomorrow Knight_

----------


## Sergard

> Karl Mostert
> 
> Attachment 90718
> 
> Attachment 90719


Tom Taylor

Tom Taylor twitter 30-12-2019 Karl Mostert DCeased.jpg

----------


## Sergard

David Messina

_..my top(RedHood)9

#top9of2019_



Also, some panel comparisons of RH:O #40/#41: black&white vs color

David Messina

_.black and white version.
Still from Red Hood and the Outlaw #41_



David Messina

----------


## Restingvoice

if you're making a zombie story internal organ reference is a must I think

----------


## Sergard

David Messina

_Red Hood #41

Pencil and ink on paper by me, colors by @rexlokus_

----------


## Sergard

David Messina

_RED HOOD #40
Art by me, color by @rexlokus
_

----------


## Zaresh

Very cool stuff. It's a joy :3.

----------


## Sergard

Fade



D3



I3

----------


## Sergard

Fade (continuation)

F9



I8



F3

----------


## Sergard

nockuth




There's also a Kickstarter project for Red Hood: The FAN Series Season 3!
There are still 12 days left to support it.




> Red Hood: The Fan Series is a non-profit, 4 part mini-series that follows the adventures of Batman's former sidekick, Jason Todd, the second Robin, now The Red Hood.
> 
> Seasons 1 & 2 (SEE THE MOVIE VERSION OF S2 ABOVE!) of our series finds The Red Hood dealing with the criminal fallout after Batman has mysteriously disappeared, resulting in Gotham City falling into chaos.
> 
> Along with his adoptive brothers, Tim Drake (The Red Robin), and Damian Wayne (Son of Bruce Wayne and current Robin), The Red Hood will have to (begrudgingly) form an uneasy alliance to take back Gotham from one of their most diabolical foes, The Court of Owls!
> 
> In Season 3, after being thrust through multiple dimensions and temporarily gaining the power of the White Lantern Kyle Rayner, Jason is now home, trying to decide if the life of a hero is truly the path that he wishes to pursue. Little do the Robins know, the monstrous Bane is on his way back to Gotham to break the Batman, one Robin at a time.
> 
> SEASON 3 is going to be a HUGE undertaking, seeking to take the series to the next level. Though we enjoyed making Seasons 1 & 2, we definitely believe that the flaws can be broken down and fixed by pushing the boundaries of Production Gear (cameras, etc.), Acting talent, Locations, and even some awesome guest stars!
> ...

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## Sergard

Another comparison: black&white vs colors (RH:O #44 cover by Paolo Pantalena)

source




Paolo Pantalena

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## Sergard

Unmoving

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## RedBird

> nockuth


I like this artists style for portraits, but I especially like when they create pieces with backgrounds like this, and provide more storytelling, its always very moody and dramatic.  :Smile: 

Also I know times are different, but its been New Year for a few hours for me already, so, Happy New Year  :Smile:

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## Sergard

> I like this artists style for portraits, but I especially like when they create pieces with backgrounds like this, and provide more storytelling, its always very moody and dramatic. 
> 
> Also I know times are different, but its been New Year for a few hours for me already, so, Happy New Year


I adore this kind of artworks too.

Happy New Year  :Big Grin: 
Here, it's still some hours to go.

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## Zaresh

> I like this artists style for portraits, but I especially like when they create pieces with backgrounds like this, and provide more storytelling, its always very moody and dramatic. 
> 
> Also I know times are different, but its been New Year for a few hours for me already, so, Happy New Year


Happy new year to you too  :Smile: 
Here too, we're still in 2019.

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## Sergard

Curran Walters

Curran Walters Red Hood anniversary 15 years.jpg

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## Sergard

@jasontidds

_#Hello2020
 For a better year of mice and new decade!_

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## Restingvoice

BottomJay... JasonTidds... these fans are thirsty

The final question in these final hours... do you prefer Jason as a close member of the Batfam with regular access to Batcave or distant ally?

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## Zaresh

> BottomJay... JasonTidds... these fans are thirsty
> 
> The final question in these final hours... do you prefer Jason as a close member of the Batfam with regular access to Batcave or distant ally?


Actual core member but with the outsider's / a farther perspective?
Edit: you know, like that uncle / brother / cousin you have that show ups just when something really important happens but otherwise is always somewhere else, and has some disagreements with most of the family but still is supportive and helps when they're in dire straits*. Or sometimes calls you when he comes back from a year-long trip and wants to have a coffee with you, talk about the family, etc. And you love him dear, and he loves you dearer, but you just don't see a lot of each other regularly because... different life styles and opinions and stuff.

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## Sergard

> BottomJay... JasonTidds... these fans are thirsty


As long as I get some awesome fanarts, fans can be as thirsty as they want.  :Wink: 




> The final question in these final hours... do you prefer Jason as a close member of the Batfam with regular access to Batcave or distant ally?


Jason is old enough to start his own family - and he already did with the Outlaws.
I prefer Artemis, Bizarro, the Generation Outlaw kids, Ma Gunn and Willis (when they finally reveal themselves) as Jason's main family. I also count close allies like the Su sisters and Crux as Jason's family.
These are the people Jason lives with and who he cares about. Jason is happy around them.

I can't remember the last time that Jason was truly happy around the batfamily. 
The batfamily is too dysfunctional and too unsafe. You only need a writer like Morrison or King who have their main characters they want to push - and every other character could potentially be thrown under the bus. There is also too much favoritism within the batfamily. There was a whole ridiculous trial for Batwoman - and Batwoman wasn't even invited. Why was there never a trial for Batman himself or someone else in the batfamily? I can't remember that there was for example ever a trial for Damian or that Dick stated the opinion that Damian needs to face some consequences for his actions and can't be Robin anymore.

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## Zaresh

> As long as I get some awesome fanarts, fans can be as thirsty as they want. 
> 
> 
> 
> Jason is old enough to start his own family - and he already did with the Outlaws.
> I prefer Artemis, Bizarro, the Generation Outlaw kids, Ma Gunn and Willis (when they finally reveal themselves) as Jason's main family. I also count close allies like the Su sisters and Crux as Jason's family.
> These are the people Jason lives with and who he cares about. Jason is happy around them.
> 
> I can't remember the last time that Jason was truly happy around the batfamily. 
> *The batfamily is too dysfunctional and too unsafe. You only need a writer like Morrison or King who have their main characters they want to push - and every other character can be potentially thrown under the bus. There is also too much favoritism within the batfamily.* There was a whole ridiculous trial for Batwoman - and Batwoman wasn't even invited. Why was there never a trial for Batman himself or someone else in the batfamily? I can't remember that there was for example ever a trial for Damian or that Dick stated the opinion that Damian needs to face some consequences for his actions and can't be Robin anymore.


Good point. But still, I enjoy when he shows up to help, and when they do show up to help him. Families are complicated. I like how his relationship with Tim has evolved, because it's very, very complicated and has a lot of potential, for example. I would like to see how his relationship with Damian or Kate would evolve, given the chance, again, because I see a lot of potential stories that could unravel from there. And Dick, too, after this Ric mess, could bring an interesting story for Jason (or vice versa), if the right writer were given that freedom, I think.

But yeah, you're right that there're clearly favourites: the ones the fans demand, the ones who sell. And editorial is going to ask for certain kind of stories... and not care for what they do with certain characters. And then you have writers that don't care about characters at all and bend then to fit the stories they want to tell no matter what.

This is why I think this new notion of divergent earths could help with this sort of things. You want to write redhead villanious Jason? go for this pre-FP world. You want to write Dick and Bruce as they where pre-COIE? Go with 1985. You want ansgty angry Supes? Go with 52. The actual first idea of 52 worlds could've been like this, I think; but it limited a lot how characters, world mechanics and backgrounds were/are for each earth of the Orrery. I think it's why we didn't get a lot of stories from these in the end. Now they would be all cannon, as much as, say, The Killing Joke. And they can sell as much; I mean, TDKR is a best seller and it's not the main DCU.

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## Restingvoice

> Actual core member but with the outsider's / a farther perspective?
> Edit: you know, like that uncle/brother/cousin you have that show ups just when something really important happens but otherwise is always somewhere else, and has some disagreements with most of the family but still is supportive and helps when they're in dire strides. Or sometimes calls you when he comes back from a year-long trip and wants to have a coffee with you, talk about the family, etc. And you love him dearly, and he loves you dearer, but you just don't see a lot of each other regularly because... different lifestyles and opinions and stuff.


lol that friend with the key that strolls into your home when you're away, raids the fridge, watches tv until you come home, asks for gossip and then leaves. I super can see him doing that to Dick. 




> As long as I get some awesome fanarts, fans can be as thirsty as they want. 
> 
> Jason is old enough to start his own family - and he already did with the Outlaws.
> I prefer Artemis, Bizarro, the Generation Outlaw kids, Ma Gunn and Willis (when they finally reveal themselves) as Jason's main family. I also count close allies like the Su sisters and Crux as Jason's family.
> These are the people Jason lives with and who he cares about. Jason is happy around them.
> 
> I can't remember the last time that Jason was truly happy around the batfamily. 
> The batfamily is too dysfunctional and too unsafe. You only need a writer like Morrison or King who have their main characters they want to push - and every other character could potentially be thrown under the bus. There is also too much favoritism within the batfamily. There was a whole ridiculous trial for Batwoman - and Batwoman wasn't even invited. Why was there never a trial for Batman himself or someone else in the batfamily? I can't remember that there was for example ever a trial for Damian or that Dick stated the opinion that Damian needs to face some consequences for his actions and can't be Robin anymore.


Outlaws is definitely his better family.

Interesting point about the trials... 

Batman, of course, is the head of the fam and the one who create the rules, so there's no real trial for him since he doesn't break that rule. 

The closest trial in the fam was probably when Joker declared that he and Batman share a secret that endangers the fam, so Nightwing gathered everyone to grill him for the truth.

Batman's real trial, since he doesn't have authority over them, would be by Justice League. When they discovered that he created methods to subdue everyone of them and that methods fall to the hands of Ra's al Ghul. After everything is settled, he was suspended from the League until Infinite Crisis.

Dick killed The Joker in anger but Batman managed to revive him so I guess that didn't count. 

Then he let Blockbuster gets shot by his partner Tarantula, but Nightwing already punished Tarantula himself, and when he finally spoke the truth to Batman, he acknowledged the difference between deliberately killing someone and failing to stop a murder, which he yelled at Dick to remember. 

At that time, it's been months since that happened, and Batman has been noticing that Nightwing pretty much tried to kill himself out of guilt, involving himself with dangerous people like Tarantula, the mob and Deathstroke, so while he yelled at him, his main concern was Dick's mental and physical state. I guess he thinks he's punished himself enough. 

Also, it didn't happen in Gotham. It was in Bludhaven, and the city is destroyed, with Nightwing heavily injured trying to salvage the rest, and a world-ending is coming in the form of Crisis. So that's another reason why he settled with yelling.

Damian killed a criminal twice after he became a family but both times he did it to save Batman. 

The first was followed by Talia declaring a bounty on his head so they simply have bigger trouble at hand and he grounded him for his safety. 

The second happened in private and he wishes that he kills Nobody himself instead of having Damian stain his hand with blood again. The end result was Bruce demanding Damian to prove that he does change. 

Then, once Batman realized that the prophecy he saw about a future Batman destroying Gotham refers to Damian, he decided to hand him over to Talia. This didn't come to pass as Leviathan takes over Gotham and Batman was captured in the field, so Damian who was still grounded rushed to save the day and died. 

I think the reason why there's a Batwoman trial was that she's a member of an official team that he invites himself to lead a team which members include people they don't know that well like Batwing, Azrael and Clayface, and the killing involve is more open and public, with those people involved. Batwing and Azrael also sided with Batwoman, so it's not something that he can settle personally one on one. 

I'm not including Jason's beat-up here because unlike the others where I can find some sort of justification, I think this one is absurd. The shooting was public, but Red Hood's association with Batman is not known, so Batman decided to settle this in private... which, so far makes sense... but by beating him up... which is excessive and unneeded.

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## Sergard

bibyami

_happy new year 2020!!!_

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